# Stain/Paint Coming off In Big Chunks



## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

Looked at a job to day. The front of the house is a mess. I believe it is solid stain, and it is really brittle. There was some white on the back of the piece I looked at, but it appeared more to be from the wood rather than a primer. The HO does not want a total strip, but I am afraid that if I do not do a total strip that the stuff that remains will continue to fail. Should I call my BM rep to find out what he suggests?


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

Here is a picture of what I am dealing with. This is a very large house and most of the front looks like this.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

Gonna try this again with the picture.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

One more time!


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Pete the Painter said:


> Looked at a job to day. The front of the house is a mess. I believe it is solid stain, and it is really brittle. There was some white on the back of the piece I looked at, but it appeared more to be from the wood rather than a primer. The HO does not want a total strip, but I am afraid that if I do not do a total strip that the stuff that remains will continue to fail. Should I call my BM rep to find out what he suggests?


I would imagine that BM can't warranty their product over a compromised surface.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

CApainter said:


> I would imagine that BM can't warranty their product over a compromised surface.


Yeah, they never will. But, maybe if I can get a rep to also suggest a total strip the HO might be more apt to accept that it needs to be done.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

Another try with the picture.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

pete the painter said:


> another try with the picture.


wth!


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## PremierPaintingMa (Nov 30, 2014)

Pete the Painter said:


> Looked at a job to day. The front of the house is a mess. I believe it is solid stain, and it is really brittle. There was some white on the back of the piece I looked at, but it appeared more to be from the wood rather than a primer. The HO does not want a total strip, but I am afraid that if I do not do a total strip that the stuff that remains will continue to fail. Should I call my BM rep to find out what he suggests?


First check for moisture problem, or maybe the previous painter caulk the bottom of the clapboards or shingles, and the house is not breezing properly moisture trap, or they paint over the previous paint with out any primer.
Remember total strip is expensive, maybe the HO can't afford that.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PremierPaintingMa said:


> First check for moisture problem, or maybe the previous painter caulk the bottom of the clapboards or shingles, and the house is not breezing properly moisture trap, or they paint over the previous paint with out any primer.
> Remember total strip is expensive, maybe the HO can't afford that.


For real. I'd hate to become liable for another painters mistake, or some structural contribution to the problem that I disregarded for the sake of getting the job.

This job would need to be thoroughly investigated before I accepted it.


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## PNW Painter (Sep 5, 2013)

Pete, are you still working solo? If so i'd recommend walking away from that project. If you end up stripping the house and bid too low you'll be working for peanuts and lose out on potentially higher paying jobs. 

Another option is to sub out the prep work to a crew that specializes in that type of work. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NACE (May 16, 2008)

No gable vents. No ridge vents. Painted over weathered siding. Check with moisture meter. Take some claps off and show the owner what's behind the boards. Poor construction and design will make a good painter look bad. Again, shadow line clogged with paint? Those are moisture blisters.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

NACE said:


> No gable vents. No ridge vents. Painted over weathered siding. Check with moisture meter. Take some claps off and show the owner what's behind the boards. Poor construction and design will make a good painter look bad. Again, shadow line clogged with paint? Those are moisture blisters.


I see way to often newer homes with no ridge vent or gable vents. First thing I say is this will cause issues and until rectified we can not warranty our work.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Pete the Painter said:


> Looked at a job to day. The front of the house is a mess. I believe it is solid stain, and it is really brittle. There was some white on the back of the piece I looked at, but it appeared more to be from the wood rather than a primer. The HO does not want a total strip, but I am afraid that if I do not do a total strip that the stuff that remains will continue to fail. Should I call my BM rep to find out what he suggests?


Pete,

Hope your not tackling this solo. Big project for one guy.

If you strip it how will you do it? Power tools? Chemical strippers?


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

Ok, I am not sure why the pictures are now showing, and they were not yesterday. I contacted my BM rep and he is going to have a look at it. Hopefully he can tell me what is going on. The thing is, is that it is only happening on the front of the house, which is the south facing side. Only a few spots on the other three sides. Wouldn't moisture be more of an issue on the non south sides?
The guy that owns the house is a contractor, so he could probably point out any issues with poor construction than I can.
I am still working solo, but already have a guy lined up to hire. I have now looked at four total exteriors in the past three weeks. Just waiting to get one or two so that I know I will have enough work for both of us.
If I do get it, and the BM rep and I think that it should be stripped, my plan, if he does not want to strip, will be to either put into that contract that I am not responsible for future failures. If he does want it strip....purchase a paint shaver and bid high.


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## NACE (May 16, 2008)

South side would draw the moisture as moisture seeks the path to least resistance. Sun draws the moisture to the south side. Sun heats moisture up into a vapor and hydrostatic pressure brings it through the back of the siding. Paint film is a barrier to the moisture and does not have the adhesive strength to withstand hydrostatic pressure. Again, is there caulk or paint or stain blocking the shadow line? Are the boards too tight? Taking Clapboards off reveals a lot about what's going on structurally.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Pete the Painter said:


> Ok, I am not sure why the pictures are now showing, and they were not yesterday.


I understand there was a glitch with the site yesterday that was preventing attachments from being viewed. It appears to be rectified.


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## pacific paint (Nov 21, 2015)

NACE is 100% correct
How some one could build a house with no venting is beyond me.
Does not matter strip no strip primer no primer the coating will fail with out venting not to mention the whole house is dry rotting as we speak.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Newer houses being built these days are being done so air tight, I can't imagine that paint failure is the only problem it's causing. It's not healthy.

Thankfully, my house was built by some old crazy guy, so we probably get a full air exchange every 20 minutes or so.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Newer houses being built these days are being done so air tight, I can't imagine that paint failure is the only problem it's causing. It's not healthy.
> 
> Thankfully, my house was built by some old crazy guy, so we probably get a full air exchange every 20 minutes or so.


I'm quite sure that is a good thing!


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

Wildbill7145 said:


> I understand there was a glitch with the site yesterday that was preventing attachments from being viewed. It appears to be rectified.


I could not even use my app yesterday.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

NACE said:


> South side would draw the moisture as moisture seeks the path to least resistance. Sun draws the moisture to the south side. Sun heats moisture up into a vapor and hydrostatic pressure brings it through the back of the siding. Paint film is a barrier to the moisture and does not have the adhesive strength to withstand hydrostatic pressure. Again, is there caulk or paint or stain blocking the shadow line? Are the boards too tight? Taking Clapboards off reveals a lot about what's going on structurally.


He is actually doing some work on the front where he removed some of the clapboards. He is a contractor, and I have asked him some of the questions you have asked me. Just waiting on him to get back to me.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Pete the Painter said:


> Ok, I am not sure why the pictures are now showing, and they were not yesterday. I contacted my BM rep and he is going to have a look at it. Hopefully he can tell me what is going on. The thing is, is that it is only happening on the front of the house, which is the south facing side. Only a few spots on the other three sides. Wouldn't moisture be more of an issue on the non south sides?
> The guy that owns the house is a contractor, so he could probably point out any issues with poor construction than I can.
> I am still working solo, but already have a guy lined up to hire. I have now looked at four total exteriors in the past three weeks. Just waiting to get one or two so that I know I will have enough work for both of us.
> If I do get it, and the BM rep and I think that it should be stripped, my plan, if he does not want to strip, will be to either put into that contract that I am not responsible for future failures. If he does want it strip....purchase a paint shaver and bid high.


Let me know you can borrow ours. Try it out before you buy it. I don't plan on using it much this year.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Newer houses being built these days are being done so air tight, I can't imagine that paint failure is the only problem it's causing. It's not healthy.
> 
> Thankfully, my house was built by some old crazy guy, so we probably get a full air exchange every 20 minutes or so.


We just finished the most energy efficient homes around these parts. This past winter it was nice and warm, also it's a stucco exterior finish so I'm going to see how well it holds up over he next few years.


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## painterman (Jun 2, 2007)

Could be moisture drive,have a look and see if the claps are sealed to each other. Wedge vents may help. I really think it is mill glaze. Most likely never done correctly from the original build. The correct way to fix this is to remove all the stain and start over. The no warranty fix would be to scrape and sand as required and pound peel bond to it two coats and then stain as required. 

Be very careful with this guy you could be in for a world of hurt financially.
Best of luck.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

painterman said:


> Could be moisture drive,have a look and see if the claps are sealed to each other. Wedge vents may help. I really think it is mill glaze. Most likely never done correctly from the original build. The correct way to fix this is to remove all the stain and start over. The no warranty fix would be to scrape and sand as required and pound peel bond to it two coats and then stain as required.
> 
> Be very careful with this guy you could be in for a world of hurt financially.
> Best of luck.


That is what I was also thinking, especially after I was reading the specs for BM 100 primer which stated that all Mill Glaze must be removed.
I have spoken to the HO since I looked at the house, and he is thinking about removing the clapboards and installing new ones. According to his neighbors the previous owners had the same problem and would just sand and paint.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

There is no such thing as mill glaze, or so I am told. It is "kumquat". (but you may be correct!lol)


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## Slopmeyer (Aug 2, 2009)

Scrape it,Prime it,paint it. Done


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Slopmeyer said:


> Scrape it,Prime it,paint it. Done


does sanding enter in????


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## tntpainting (Apr 3, 2008)

That's not a good situation to be in good luck , hope it works out for you


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## SunHouseProperties (Feb 19, 2015)

I just seen a house very similar - and I almost made the mistake of NOT thinking of other trades/building systems that could be causing the issue in the pictures. When my Carpenter friend took a look at some siding repair HE quikly mentioned to me that the siding has been done with flooring boards and they were put up WITHOUT space to breath and that was causing moisture BOTH outside damage and inside the house (beside chimney and at the top corners of the bedroom wall BESIDE the chimney. Its something to remember - I sometimes think narrowly about how my profession can fix the problem and SOMETIMES its NOT my profession that can fix it.... I need to put on a different hat as carpenter / envelope guy... its part of caring enough about My painting profession to learn about the other trades and how it relates to OURS. BY the way is there a fix to the siding being places too close together ... like creating air flow in a JIFFY. OR tell my carpenter to rip it open and start at the beginning... OH boy


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