# Cleaning kitchen cabinets prior to water based finish



## coldcalpaintr (Nov 28, 2016)

I plan on spraying some previously lacquered kitchen cabinets with BIN advanced followed by Kelly Moore Dura Poxy. This being my first cabinet job - I'm wondering what I should use to clean them before spraying. I've heard different products for different situations, so I'm not sure what is best before using water based finishes: TSP, Ammonia, Dawn dish soap, something else?

Thanks


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Krud Kutter works well, or if they aren’t that dirty/greasy denatured alcohol can be sufficient. 

Don’t use TSP. It’s neither necessary or appropriate for cleaning under interior water borne coatings. 


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## coldcalpaintr (Nov 28, 2016)

Jmayspaint said:


> Krud Kutter works well, or if they aren’t that dirty/greasy denatured alcohol can be sufficient.
> 
> Don’t use TSP. It’s neither necessary or appropriate for cleaning under interior water borne coatings.
> 
> ...


Thanks - what's the word on dish soap like Dawn? I've seen that mentioned a few places, but wasn't sure if it's not ideal for certain top coats.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Yep, I use Krud Kutter as well. You can go with their deglossing version if you wish.
(auto correct had that as “Kurd Kutter” - but I think that’s mainly for use in cheese factories)


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

Skip the BIN advanced and go with the original. I've heard the synthetic shellac is garbage.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Woodco said:


> Skip the BIN advanced and go with the original. I've heard the synthetic shellac is garbage.




I don’t think it’s garbage, though there have been some problems with it. I reviewed it a few years ago in this thread, 

http://www.painttalk.com/f2/product-review-bin-advanced-synthetic-shellac-40818/#/topics/40818

I don’t use it much anymore, mainly due to unavailability in my current market and the ‘curdling factor that is expounded upon in that thread. 

But other than some inferior stain blocking (it wouldn’t block a highlighter pen in my tests) it worked fine for me on a few cabinet jobs. 

If Zinsser can remedy the curdling problem, it could be a valid replacement for traditional shellac in some circumstances. After all, we’re going to have to figure out how to use alternatives to real shellac as it’s becoming more and more scarce in the world market. 

I would advise anyone using it now to open and check each can before leaving the store. The curdling problem seemed to occur randomly
In different parts of the country, for no clear reason. Other than that, I have used it successfully on cabinet jobs. 


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## coldcalpaintr (Nov 28, 2016)

My reason for wanting to use BIN advanced is I only have one sprayer and am not keen to put shellac through it, or have to deal with the cleanup and fumes since the house is occupied. I considered UMA XIM instead, but it's not available to me locally so the synthetic BIN wins.


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

Why not just shoot lacquer? No primer needed. Buy yourself a new hose and save some dough and a better finish.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

I usually recommend a mild detergent. krud kutter, dirtex or no rinse tsp


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

MikeCalifornia said:


> Why not just shoot lacquer? No primer needed. Buy yourself a new hose and save some dough and a better finish.


Cuz lacquer only sticks to certain substrates and tinted lacquer isnt available everywhere...


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Woodco said:


> Cuz lacquer only sticks to certain substrates and tinted lacquer isnt available everywhere...


Many lacquer systems requires acetate industrial colorant, most shops won't be set up for that.


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

coldcalpaintr said:


> Thanks - what's the word on dish soap like Dawn? I've seen that mentioned a few places, but wasn't sure if it's not ideal for certain top coats.


Why would anyone think that dish soap is a proper cleaner for something to be painted? You don't want a bunch of suds that you may or may not rinse off. Use a non-rinsing product like Dirtex for example. https://www.amazon.com/Savogran-106...&qid=1520747694&sr=8-1&keywords=dirtex+powder


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## Mr Smith (Mar 11, 2016)

I've used TSP for over 20 years cleaning cabinets without an issue. It's important to rinse it off with clean water. Use a green scrub pad for getting into the crevices.


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

Dirtex

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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Many lacquer systems requires acetate industrial colorant, most shops won't be set up for that.


I'll bet this client wants white, just like 99% of all clients who want their cabinets painted.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

MikeCalifornia said:


> I'll bet this client wants white, just like 99% of all clients who want their cabinets painted.




If that was the case in my area, I’d be using more lacquer. 
I have a decent bit of experience using lacquer on newly built cabinets. I’m comfortable using it, and agree that it’s the best looking/feeling finish out there. 

I only have easy access to white and pastel lacquer. And that’s just because the guy at the local Sherwin is fairly adept at matching pastel colors with white lacquer base. 

Most of our sets lately have been done in medium grays, or greens, or even browns with even darker accent islands. Stuff like this for the most part; 









White and off white has been less that half of what we’ve done in the past couple years. 

Another thing that concerns me about using lacquer is the max film thickness guidelines. I’ve seen a few sets of white lacquered cabinets that had cracked over time and wondered if that might be a result of too thick of a film. If you’re re-lacquering lacquered cabinets how do you know how to judge what constitutes too thick of a film according to the specs? And of course white/pastel lacquer yellows over time. 

Question to people that do have access to lacquer dealers with a full range of tinting capabilities. Can you get lacquer in a full range of colors? 

I’ve used black and red lacquers in the past, colored lacquer is obviously out there. But can anyone here take a random color from another manufacturers color chart to your dealer and have it matched in lacquer like you can with other paints? 


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Jmayspaint said:


> But can anyone here take a random color from another manufacturers color chart to your dealer and have it matched in lacquer like you can with other paints?


Yes but requires someone who knows how to do it. There are no formulas to follow like there is for paint. No computer matching and lacquer tints crazy fast, same thing tinting poly a single drop can throw it in a wrong direction


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