# What Sheen Would You Recommend Here?



## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

This is a persons foyer, into their living room, (NC). The wood work was to be painted with semi-gloss. However, in other rooms that were painted with semi-gloss, ie; crown molding, doors etc, the HO stated that they don't like the shine. So I suggested SW Cashmere "Pearl" finish. So I sprayed this monstrosity (corner to corner), with the Cashmere "Pearl" finish, Dover white. The builder goes out to the job site (7pm, with low lighting), and then talks the HO into having me redo the work with semi-gloss. FYI - the job is T&M, so I will get paid to keep doing it until the customer is satisfaction (money is not an issue). 

Also, the entire room has crown and wainscot as well, so in short, throughout the room (28x28), the wood trim covers 60% of the paint-able wall surface from the floor to the ceiling (drywall to be painted, SW Superpaint Flat. 

What sheen would you recommend to a Home owner who has stated that he doesn't want to see shine?


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

BM Advance Satin


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

If money is not an issue go with BM Regal Select on the walls. 

Kind a weird that money is not a problem and you are using Superpaint crap on that really nice project.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> If money is not an issue go with BM Regal Select on the walls.
> 
> Kind a weird that money is not a problem and you are using *Superpaint* crap on that really nice project.


I took over a project that was started by another painter. The job was specked for Sherwin Williams long before I got there. The HO doesn't want a Matte finish on the walls, due to it being hard to touch up (it's new construction). The Sherwin Williams Rep recommended Superpaint (flat), Duration doesn't come in flat. 

The house is being painted with custom colors throughout. We are using Eminence, Superpaint, Cashmere and Duration.


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## STAR (Nov 26, 2010)

I've painted similar work and ended up doing it all advance satin. Only other option I see for you is frames,doors and base in semi and the rest in matte.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Satin maybe? It should be a little higher then pearl, but there isn't really any standard. Is that the pearl on it in the picture? With that much woodwork i think the HO is correct in thinking it should be a lower sheen then Semi gloss.


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## paintpimp (Jun 29, 2007)

From this point on Ignore any words on sheen levels on paint cans. Look at data pages of any brand and look at the 85 degree sheen. 100 units would be 100% sheen or glass. Flats are usually in the 0-5 range. Compare what the home owner wants with the data page to determine what they want.

This is not the same as gloss. Gloss is measured at 60 degrees. Most people don't judge how shiny a paint is at 60 degrees but do at 85 degrees.


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## paintpimp (Jun 29, 2007)

For example according to data page,
Cashmere at 85 degree
Flat. 3-6 units
Lolustre. 35-45 units
Medlustre 50-60 units
Pearl 60-70 units.

So, pearl is actually the shiniest finish in the cashmere line.


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## AlphaWolf (Nov 23, 2014)

I would say satin. Or if they wanted a high grade Eggshell. Just find an Eggshell thats more on the glossy side, just check the data sheets.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

paintpimp said:


> From this point on Ignore any words on sheen levels on paint cans. Look at data pages of any brand and look at the 85 degree sheen. 100 units would be 100% sheen or glass. Flats are usually in the 0-5 range. Compare what the home owner wants with the data page to determine what they want.
> 
> This is not the same as gloss. Gloss is measured at 60 degrees. Most people don't judge how shiny a paint is at 60 degrees but do at 85 degrees.


I think you may have those angles reversed, gloss is measured at 85 degrees. Sheen is measured at 60, and flats are 0-5 @ 60 degrees.

http://www.paintinfo.com/mpi/approved/sheen.shtml

EDIT: Interestingly, MPI and a bunch of manufacturers have opposite descriptions of the two measurement.


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## paintpimp (Jun 29, 2007)

Gough said:


> I think you may have those angles reversed, gloss is measured at 85 degrees. Sheen is measured at 60, and flats are 0-5 @ 60 degrees.
> 
> http://www.paintinfo.com/mpi/approved/sheen.shtml
> 
> EDIT: Interestingly, MPI and a bunch of manufacturers have opposite descriptions of the two measurement.




Read the 3rd paragraph under the illustration. It says the sheen is 85 degree angle.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

Gough said:


> I think you may have those angles reversed, gloss is measured at 85 degrees. Sheen is measured at 60, and flats are 0-5 @ 60 degrees.
> 
> http://www.paintinfo.com/mpi/approved/sheen.shtml
> 
> EDIT: Interestingly, MPI and a bunch of manufacturers have opposite descriptions of the two measurement.



Right about now my thread for universal sheens doesn't seem quite so dumb.


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## cardwizzard (Sep 13, 2010)

You may be better off, putting up a few samples and letting the customer choose. 

Sent from my D5503 using PaintTalk.com mobile app


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> Right about now my thread for universal sheens doesn't seem quite so dumb.


 And adding to the problem is that manufacturers can't even standardize how they are going to measure gloss and/or sheen.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

If you could have used behr you would have be the one shining.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

paintpimp said:


> For example according to data page,
> Cashmere at 85 degree
> Flat. 3-6 units
> Lolustre. 35-45 units
> ...


*This is the order of Cashmere sheen:*


Low Luster
Pearl - (like a satin)
Medium Luster - (equivalent to semi-gloss)


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## ShermanMoore (Mar 23, 2014)

I would recommend satin. Pearl is a funny sheen in Cashmere: it's designed to be like low lustre straight on, but semi-gloss at the angle. Given the photo you provided, I'd imagine you'd get a lot of the semi-gloss coming through with all the angles. Straight up satin will have a more consistent, subdued sheen. Either Pro Classic (not my fave) or Pro Industrial Acrylic would be my choice.


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## ShermanMoore (Mar 23, 2014)

Now that I think about it, I think Pre-Cat epoxy in eggshell would be great. The sheen is basically the same as Regal Pearl (i.e. higher than a typical eggshell but lower than a full satin). Great durability too, much better than Cashmere or Pro Classic.


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## paintpimp (Jun 29, 2007)

PaintersUnite said:


> *This is the order of Cashmere sheen:*
> 
> 
> Low Luster
> ...



Yes and no. The gloss level would be in that order. But the sheen level has pearl the highest shine.


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## matt19422 (Oct 2, 2009)

Wipe it down with de-glosser & charge accordingly.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

I know Sherwin was spec'd but was about Pitt Tech satin from PPG? I find it's enough sheen to make it pop, but dull enough to show massive deficiencies, or see your reflection in it


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

paintpimp said:


> Read the 3rd paragraph under the illustration. It says the sheen is 85 degree angle.


Thanks, I must have read the article while at "brain rest".


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

ShermanMoore said:


> I would recommend satin. Pearl is a funny sheen in Cashmere: it's designed to be like low lustre straight on, but semi-gloss at the angle. Given the photo you provided, I'd imagine you'd get a lot of the semi-gloss coming through with all the angles. Straight up satin will have a more consistent, subdued sheen. Either Pro Classic (not my fave) or Pro Industrial Acrylic would be my choice.


 Cabinet coat does that low lustre/semigloss thing also. When you look at it on an angle, it is almost a gloss.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> Right about now my thread for universal sheens doesn't seem quite so dumb.




Yes, the more we delve into this the more confusing it becomes. 

If there is a difference between gloss and sheen, what is it? 

Looking at SW and BM paints there doesn't seem to be a clear distinction. BM lists the rating as "gloss/sheen", and SW just says "finish". 

It seems that the lower sheen paints (satin and below) are rated at 85 degrees and the higher sheen ones at 60. Is that the difference? Sheen is measured at 85 and gloss at 60?


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Jmayspaint said:


> Yes, the more we delve into this the more confusing it becomes.
> 
> If there is a difference between gloss and sheen, what is it?
> 
> ...


 'tis a quandary.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Jmayspaint said:


> Yes, the more we delve into this the more confusing it becomes.
> 
> If there is a difference between gloss and sheen, what is it?
> 
> ...


Re-reading the MPI article after a little more sleep, that seems to be the case. What doesn't help is that those are the angles from the vertical. So a sheen reading at 85 degrees is taken at a 5 degree angle from the surface.

I assume the difference between the two measuring angles is that the lower elevation angle (85) makes it easier to discern subtle differences in reflectance.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

journeymanPainter said:


> *I know Sherwin was spec'd* but *was about Pitt Tech satin from PPG?* I find it's enough sheen to make it pop, but dull enough to show massive deficiencies, or see your reflection in it


The problem isn't the brand or product. The work was spec'd for semi-gloss on all crown, trim, wainscot, doors, etc. I completed some bedrooms with the Cashmere Medium gloss (semi-gloss), and after the HO inspected, he said the Cashmere Medium gloss was too shiny. So when I started with the living room, I suggested that we try the Cashmere Pearl. So I painted all the trim in the livingroom with Pearl finish and he inspected the work on a rainy day, with a work light, and said the Pearl finish looked flat. So I told him to come back out to reinspect on a sunny day, with more lighting. He was there yesterday, a "sunny day" and he stated, "lets go with the Pearl". 

Case is closed. 

Thanks!


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)




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