# Low temperature paints



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Doing some research for an article I am writing on applying exterior coatings in low temps. So far what I am seeing from most mfg's is surface temp minimum of 40 degrees. 

SW line goes as low as 35. 

What other mfg's do you know of that have low temp (below 40 degrees) specs?


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## HeadHoncho (Apr 17, 2007)

HIS paints out of OKC has an exterior paint that's 35* and self priming, it's called Ultimate. Good stuff, pretty sure the chemist just copied SW duration recipe.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Super Spec used to be 35F now I believe they changed it to 40F.....no idea why


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## EricTheHandyman (Jan 29, 2008)

Our local company makes a 35 degree paint. Dew point also plays a huge role as well as surface and air temp, so in reality the actual minimum application temp is probably higher than stated.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I thought all the old moor line paints used to be that as well. In fact it seems I remember the number on the front of the can to the right of the name. Every tds for exterior product now seems to be 40.

Maybe it a SW product I am confusing.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

EricTheHandyman said:


> Our local company makes a 35 degree paint. Dew point also plays a huge role as well as surface and air temp, so in reality the actual minimum application temp is probably higher than stated.



Thanks. What is the paint company and product?


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## EricTheHandyman (Jan 29, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> Thanks. What is the paint company and product?


Sorry for the omission....Hirschfields Platinum Exterior
http://www.hirshfields.com/manufacturing/products/exterior_eggSG_latex.html


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Again, for the win on exterior paint. 20F

http://www.olearypaint.com/documents/2500 PC Line.pdf


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## NACE (May 16, 2008)

An effort was made by the lab to take advantage of extending the exterior season by formulating a product that could be applied when the surface and air temp was 35 F and dew points were 5 degrees below the air temp. In doing so, with some of the older vinyl acrylic and acrylic formulas it was hard to get latex molecules to coalesce below 50 F to form a proper film. Generally , the way to get a latex based coating to coalesce at 35 degrees was to increase the ethylene and or propolyne glycols to protect the water in the paint, like anti freeze in your car. The down side of this is that it makes the film softer, and really slowed down the curing time. This made the paint much more susceptible to dirt pick up, mildew accumulation and surfactant leach, and contributed to premature fading. With some of the newer resins, water based urethane reinforced colorants, a proper film can form without compromising its integrity without adding the negative effects of glycols. Glycols are in UTC's and produce a negative effect on a paint film, especially in darker colors. They add shine, softness and other negative characteristics. BM increased the surface and air temps in all there coatings in an effort to eliminate the glycols and provide a coating that would safely cure in a cooler temperature and not be too soft. Any water based coating in architectural coatings that goes down to 35 F would be a little suspect to me as it may be older technology. Not trying to take away from anyone's product or marketing, just speaking of what has been learned in the field and from personal experience in the New England market for 25 years.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

NACE, I love you.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

What a wealth of knowledge you are NACE. Do you mind me quoting you in my writing? I wish I could link to you a thread in the zone I have, but you don't have enough posts to access it. I just updated it this year with an issue I have seen again. 

Do you know if this is what frosting is? Is it related to the dew point thus effecting the surface temp spec of the mfg? Same coating line.


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## NACE (May 16, 2008)

Looks like Dew or frost formed on it during the first 24-48 hours.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Dew possible, no frost. It didn't show until several days after.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

straight_lines said:


> Dew possible, no frost. It didn't show until several days after.


Seriously? That's what I said when you first posted the pic in your other thread .....killing me....had to get a second opinion huh lol.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

NCPaint1 said:


> Seriously? That's what I said when you first posted the pic in your other thread .....killing me....had to get a second opinion huh lol.


Whats wrong with that? I never said I disagreed, I just like getting as much information as possible. :yes:

What I wanted to know from Nace was two things: Was this in fact "frosting", and if so was the dew point the cause of frosting, or could that also occur under other circumstances. 

I am writing as a professional, and want to sound like one when I publish. People are reading... I hope. :whistling2:


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## Ultimate (Mar 20, 2011)

This will be a helpful article for those that push it. I am anxious to read it when you are done.

You can get some of the same label products to vary quite a bit, regarding allowable temp applications, just in sheen differences.


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## p8ntman (Nov 16, 2011)

Pittsburgh Paints Manor Hall Timeless Exterior has application specs down to 35 degrees


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## ROOMINADAY (Mar 20, 2009)

Call me a wimp but I don't want to be out painting at 50 let alone 20 - 35.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

P&L has a line, don't know the name but that's what the mountain guy sells


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## NACE (May 16, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> What a wealth of knowledge you are NACE. Do you mind me quoting you in my writing? I wish I could link to you a thread in the zone I have, but you don't have enough posts to access it. I just updated it this year with an issue I have seen again.
> 
> Do you know if this is what frosting is? Is it related to the dew point thus effecting the surface temp spec of the mfg? Same coating line.


The only time I have seen "frosting" is with alkyd solid stains in darker colors. I was always taught that frosting was a calcium carbonate extender pigment that would rarely manifest itself under eaves and protected areas. Usually it is hard to remove with scrubbing and will return quickly. The fix is oil prime and WB topcoat. I see what looks like blisters and some run down in the photo and the color variation makes sense as condensation prevented proper curing of the film from the bottom out. Hence the lightest discoloration is on the top.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

No blisters, and it wipes right off with a wet soft rag. Same thing happened last year when I used this paint, and I was certain it got to cold. This time that didn't happen.


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## RaleighPainter (Jun 13, 2011)

straight_lines said:


> No blisters, and it wipes right off with a wet soft rag. Same thing happened last year when I used this paint, and I was certain it got to cold. This time that didn't happen.


What paint?


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

ben soft gloss


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

ROOMINADAY said:


> Call me a wimp but I don't want to be out painting at 50 let alone 20 - 35.


Jeff I don't know what time of the year you would come to Wilmington, but January is usually the coldest month the average low is around 35 degrees.


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## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

ROOMINADAY said:


> Call me a wimp but I don't want to be out painting at 50 let alone 20 - 35.


Me either ! I don't care if the paint will work at low temp - this painter won't


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## ROOMINADAY (Mar 20, 2009)

I think it was August and again mid December. It was probabily -40 in Calgary when there in Dec so 35 would feel like a great day at the beach! We shut down exteriors in Sept/Oct.


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## briancreary (Oct 12, 2010)

*color difference?*

I have gotten away from painting at all outside in the winter and have moved to more interior only or carpentry from Nov. - mid April. One of the main reasons is that I have been told on this site and at certain paint stores that, even if you can paint in 35 degrees f, the color looks different whether it is painted in low temps with longer cure time or in the summer with high heat. I have experience this once with a customer who had bubbles appear in the fall when I painted his house in the summer. I went back and fixed the issues with the bubbles, oil primed the fixes and painted over it. Guess what; the patches looked like a different color. I went and got a new can of paint (Ben. Aura), still looked different. Came back this summer to complete the fixes in regular temps i.e. 60 - 80 degrees, with the same paint, no problems, the paint blended perfect with the same process. In short, "I'm not sold on low temp paints." Also have used Ben.Moore polarcoat and SW Resilience. Thoughts?


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## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

I don't care what the lab guys say or what's printed on the label, if it's too cold for me to work outside comfortably it aint getting done - by me anyway.


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## NACE (May 16, 2008)

briancreary said:


> I have gotten away from painting at all outside in the winter and have moved to more interior only or carpentry from Nov. - mid April. One of the main reasons is that I have been told on this site and at certain paint stores that, even if you can paint in 35 degrees f, the color looks different whether it is painted in low temps with longer cure time or in the summer with high heat. I have experience this once with a customer who had bubbles appear in the fall when I painted his house in the summer. I went back and fixed the issues with the bubbles, oil primed the fixes and painted over it. Guess what; the patches looked like a different color. I went and got a new can of paint (Ben. Aura), still looked different. Came back this summer to complete the fixes in regular temps i.e. 60 - 80 degrees, with the same paint, no problems, the paint blended perfect with the same process. In short, "I'm not sold on low temp paints." Also have used Ben.Moore polarcoat and SW Resilience. Thoughts?


This is a very good point. Temperature does have an effect on color. Even the method of application whether brush roll or spray imparts different friction rates that effect color. I've always been taught that hat banding was a result of the different friction rates between cutting with a brush and rolling to the cut. Touching up a wall that was sprayed and then touched up with a brush or roller would contribute to touch up problems. We would leave touch up paint behind that we would spray into a bucket because atomizing the paint would give better touch up results. Room temps are different in the corners versus the walls. UTC tinted paints don't touch up as well as waterborne colorant paints because the glycols in UTC build shine. We just did a job where the property manager needed an elastomeric applied to concrete and surface temp never got above 40 F. We used 90 gallons of smooth textured solvent based elastomeric tinted with 844 colorant and the results were excellent. Would not have done well with an acrylic elastomeric.


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## Delta Painting (Apr 27, 2010)

DeanV said:


> Again, for the win on exterior paint. 20F
> 
> http://www.olearypaint.com/documents/2500 PC Line.pdf


O' Leary is all I use unless the HO buys the paint...:notworthy:


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I just wanted to say thanks to all those who have participated in this thread. I have learned a lot about this topic that I didn't know. 

One of the most important aspects of which is how dew point effects the surface temp specs of paint. I will post a link to the article I am writing when I complete it. I hope everyone finds it useful.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

I can remember when they 1st came out with this low-temp at sw befoe they had the paint and primer combined.It was just the top coat.manager there at the store was bragging how you could paint now in the cold. I said thats fine and dandy but do you have a low temp primer to go with it.He said well I never thought about the big picture..Hello!Plus I told him at temps that low who wants to prep by cleaning the substrate with solutions.The new low-temps with primer added in now I still cant seem to get myself to use as a prime coat on bare wood or scraped areas.there just seems to me that theres just to many things that could go wrong.Low-Blow.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Is low-temp useful if it will freeze over-night? 

My neck of the woods, when temps get low enough to consider the low-temp paints, this is a concern. 

It only takes one job where it freezes over-night and causes failure to lose your street cred....

Only small jobs and I quit early afternoon when there is potential for overnight freeze. You gotta do what you gotta do sometimes, I have rolled the dice before...


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