# Love SW but tired of prices and public sales!



## Paintinglife (Sep 13, 2012)

I've been using SW since early 2000's. Most of my work is residential repaints. SW products are excellent, at least in my experience with Loxon conditioner, Super Paint, Resilience and Duration.

My frustration started during the building boom. Prices went through the roof and supply of high end products was limited. The supply limitations have left me looking unprofessional in front of customers. And the price increases seem very unreasonable. Furthermore their 40% off public sale makes me feel ripped off! Why does the public get a better discount than my volume discount?

Currently I'm looking towards the Ben Moore and Valspar line up as they appear to be competitive in price and quality. Actually both brands are priced less and readily available.

Having been a loyal SW customer this change is frustrating. Does anyone have experience in using the other brands? And are they equal in quality as promoted?

Thanks,
Paintinglife
Looking for alternative to SW


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

It's been my experience that BM is definitely not equal in quality to SW, but Valspar seems to be.

That's why we use BM


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

Dulux (owned by PPG). They have there commercial cheaper product (ultra), good mid grade line (lifemaster) it's washable, and the semi gloss white trends to cover in one cost. There top product is diamond, great if customers want higher Sheens, and you don't want to apply it (eggshell finishes like a semi, etc)

Sent from my SGH-T989D using Tapatalk


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

journeymanPainter said:


> Dulux (owned by PPG). They have there commercial cheaper product (ultra), good mid grade line (lifemaster) it's washable, and the semi gloss white trends to cover in one cost. There top product is diamond, great if customers want higher Sheens, and you don't want to apply it (eggshell finishes like a semi, etc)
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T989D using Tapatalk


Shipping prices are the killer, though. If they 'd just lift that embargo with Cuba....


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

Gough said:


> Shipping prices are the killer, though. If they 'd just lift that embargo with Cuba....


Really? We have a manufacturing plant in an adjoining city to Vancouver (BC, Canada). Some guys on here were saying that I pay way to much, but in Canada we pay more for everything

Sent from my SGH-T989D using Tapatalk


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

journeymanPainter said:


> Really? We have a manufacturing plant in an adjoining city to Vancouver (BC, Canada). Some guys on here were saying that I pay way to much, but in Canada we pay more for everything
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T989D using Tapatalk


Sorry, the nearest dealer to the original poster is in Cuba. Dulux isn't in the States.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Paintinglife said:


> I've been using SW since early 2000's. Most of my work is residential repaints. SW products are excellent, at least in my experience with Loxon conditioner, Super Paint, Resilience and Duration.
> 
> My frustration started during the building boom. Prices went through the roof and supply of high end products was limited. The supply limitations have left me looking unprofessional in front of customers. And the price increases seem very unreasonable. Furthermore their 40% off public sale makes me feel ripped off! Why does the public get a better discount than my volume discount?
> 
> ...


i just have one question and I will be on my way. Why are you competing with DIYers. 
Thanks


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## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

Why do you care what the paint cost? Your customer is the one paying for the paint. Use only the best quality products available and you will find that the only customers that you will work for are the ones that only want the highest quality workmanship and products. Customers that are worried about how much a can of paint cost can't afford my labor rates so I do not even bother given them a bid.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

I can see how you could be a little miffed about it, but why not just use the sales just like a regular customer? If its a better price than you can get normally take advantage if it.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Those sales are based on the DIY market purchasing at a volume price


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## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

Jmayspaint said:


> I can see how you could be a little miffed about it, but why not just use the sales just like a regular customer? If its a better price than you can get normally take advantage if it.


Believe it or not, Jmays, but, SW doesn't give the contractor the 40% off price during their "homeowner" sales events. I have purchased paint during the sale thinking, "Wow, 40% off, I'm going to make a killing on materials on this current job." THen I look at the receipt and see my usual contractor pricing which is no where near the 40% off price. If you complain enough they buckle and redo your purchase to reflect the 40% off pricing.


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## Paintinglife (Sep 13, 2012)

My bids are all inclusive. This gives the customer piece of mind, that barring any unforeseen issues, my price is the price.

The issue that I have is not with the DIY persons but with SW. As a contractor, value is sold in both products and skill. By SW selling to the DIY person at deep discounts it creates unnecessary issues. Like I (home owner), can save extra money thus undermining a previously consistent bid. Plus it is unfair to prior and future customers.

In my opinion the public pricing should not be greater than contractor pricing ever. Too my knowledge SW is the only paint company that does this. My bids are for all labor and materials as one price. Otherwise be a fly by night hack and charge labor by the hr.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Paintinglife said:


> My bids are all inclusive. This gives the customer piece of mind, that barring any unforeseen issues, my price is the price.
> 
> The issue that I have is not with the DIY persons but with SW. As a contractor, value is sold in both products and skill. By SW selling to the DIY person at deep discounts it creates unnecessary issues. Like I (home owner), can save extra money thus undermining a previously consistent bid. Plus it is unfair to prior and future customers.
> 
> In my opinion the public pricing should not be greater than contractor pricing ever. Too my knowledge SW is the only paint company that does this. My bids are for all labor and materials as one price. Otherwise be a fly by night hack and charge labor by the hr.


Not trying to be a bone head here, but if your clients are bringing this point up your clientele bar is way low. If a prospect brought this up to me, it would raise a flag and id just blow out the bid and focus on a prospect that is not concerned with the measly 40% on materials. To me its the same as a homeowner saying they'll buy materials. What SW does is their business, their selling on price. I dont sell on price. I sell on a package product with a package price that includes paint. 

Would you pass your savings on to the homeowner? Or is this to increase your profit margin?


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Paintinglife

Some of understand the predicament SW's pricing puts on the contractor, and can sympathize with you. 

What I hate is the great fluctuation in pricing. How can you bid a job today without knowing what the price will be when you buy paint for it in about a month's time?

And a customer sees your paint allowance but also reads the SW ads and thinks the worse about you.

We understand.

I NEVER thought SW was a quality product, and their pricing was never justified. I bought paint once, maybe twice from SW, but we then relied on BM for exteriors and a plethora of quality paints for interiors. 

just keep that paint dripping globe in your rear view mirror. :thumbsup:


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

daArch said:


> Paintinglife
> 
> Some of understand the predicament SW's pricing puts on the contractor, and can sympathize with you.
> 
> ...


Another perplexing thing about SW is this: I have been told at the SW store I regularly use that I actually get a higher discount than that of contractors who are more established and who purchase significantly greater amounts of paint than I. 

It seems that SW wishes to gain the business of as many painters as possible. To do this, they give high discounts initially and, over time, reduce the percentage of the discount. I was actually told not to tell anyone about this.

I am still purchasing most of my paint from SW, but I am not so loyal as to refuse to use other brands.


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## MGT Painting (Jul 19, 2011)

My SW guy just gives me the 40% off when those sales are going on...I never even had to ask.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Paintinglife said:


> I've been using SW since early 2000's. Most of my work is residential repaints. SW products are excellent, at least in my experience with Loxon conditioner, Super Paint, Resilience and Duration.
> 
> My frustration started during the building boom. Prices went through the roof and supply of high end products was limited. The supply limitations have left me looking unprofessional in front of customers. And the price increases seem very unreasonable. Furthermore their 40% off public sale makes me feel ripped off! Why does the public get a better discount than my volume discount?
> 
> ...


I don't use SW, so that is not an issue with me, but to compare BM to Valspar in QUALITY is ludicrous


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

daArch said:


> Paintinglife
> 
> Some of understand the predicament SW's pricing puts on the contractor, and can sympathize with you.
> 
> ...



I think this has come up before, but I 'm curious how many outfits here itemize their bids? We never have and I wonder if it might be a regional thing, like dealing with those chea...er, frugal New Englanders.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Paintinglife said:


> I've been using SW since early 2000's. Most of my work is residential repaints. SW products are excellent, at least in my experience with Loxon conditioner, Super Paint, Resilience and Duration.
> 
> My frustration started during the building boom. Prices went through the roof and supply of high end products was limited. The supply limitations have left me looking unprofessional in front of customers. And the price increases seem very unreasonable. Furthermore their 40% off public sale makes me feel ripped off! Why does the public get a better discount than my volume discount?
> 
> ...


Painterslife:whistling2:


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

I will be trying out some Richards Paint as Im just not getting the service I once was,


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## paul carey (Feb 2, 2012)

Your comments echo the frustrations of many small painting contractors as 
to the way SW treat many of us.
They retail at very high rate then give a fair discount for a few products that we would use on a regular basis, but then take back some of that discount should you use a product that does not get the fair discount.
They have different levels of discount, for the small guy with several helpers it is tough to get a good deal from them, the volume they would use is not big enough. The retail customer who buys at regular price is being ripped off, only when the 30-40% sale is on are they getting a fair deal.
Then we look at that as a contractor who may frequent the store 2-3 times per week and get fed up with the housewife walking away with paint for less than we paid for it the previous week.
It seems to me that the store managers and reps are trying to take care of the small contractor, but their hands are tied to a large degree, SW as a corporation are interested in two things, PROFIT and STOCK PRICE .
Anyone feel the same


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## MSJ Painting (Jan 27, 2013)

Aren't we all worried about profit and overhead? I booked 3 jobs this week from sw referrals where the customer came in to buy paint on the 40% off sale and asked for a recommendation for someone to paint. My sher wil employees love me. I bring them pizza and candy every now and then, and make sure to treat them like good friends. In turn, they give my card to people all the time. I dont get all of the jobs, but every lead counts. Sw value is there, but they dont owe u anything. ..its all about the relationship u build with staff imo

Sent from my SCH-I535 using PaintTalk.com mobile app


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## CJ-Newfield (Feb 17, 2014)

chrisn said:


> I don't use SW, so that is not an issue with me, but to compare BM to Valspar in QUALITY is ludicrous


Neglecting to focus on specific products while only making generalized brand comparison, is a ludicrous comparison. 

I would use Valper Signature over BM Ultra spec any day of the week.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

CJ-Newfield said:


> Neglecting to focus on specific products while only making generalized brand comparison, is a ludicrous comparison.
> 
> I would use Valper Signature over BM Ultra spec any day of the week.[/QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

Gymschu said:


> Believe it or not, Jmays, but, SW doesn't give the contractor the 40% off price during their "homeowner" sales events. I have purchased paint during the sale thinking, "Wow, 40% off, I'm going to make a killing on materials on this current job." THen I look at the receipt and see my usual contractor pricing which is no where near the 40% off price. If you complain enough they buckle and redo your purchase to reflect the 40% off pricing.


WRONG!! All stores have a barcode for commercial accounts to extend the discount to them. Most managers will do it for you with no questions asked, but if they don't just ask.

Also, 40% sales are not a regular thing, they only happen a few times per year and are huge for the company. Think of it this way: HD Behr $36/gallon. SW Superpaint $60/gallon. 40% off = $36/gallon. Very comparable now for the customer who likes SW service and products.

Again, if you do not have quote pricing for the products you use most frequently, and just complain about the "contractor" pricing you get, you probably deserve it.


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## philcav7 (Sep 12, 2013)

You can also qualify for the 40% off sales when they occur....which is a few times each year. Not that it makes much difference anyways, I priced out some materials during the sale and it was within a $1 of my account pricing...so in essence, I get that price pretty much year round. 

And as others have said, customers pay for the materials. 

The 3 Ben moore dealers I priced are actually more expensive that comparable SW products.


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## CJ-Newfield (Feb 17, 2014)

MikeCalifornia said:


> *WRONG!!* All stores have a barcode for commercial accounts to extend the discount to them. *Most managers* will do it for you with no questions asked, but if they don't just ask.
> 
> Also, 40% sales are not a regular thing, they only happen a few times per year and are huge for the company. Think of it this way: HD Behr $36/gallon. SW Superpaint $60/gallon. 40% off = $36/gallon. Very comparable now for the customer who likes SW service and products.
> 
> Again, if you do not have quote pricing for the products you use most frequently, and just complain about the "contractor" pricing you get, you probably deserve it.


Don't take anything for granted. Most paint clerks will only give you the 40% if you mention the sale to them. If you do not mention the sale, you will only get your contractor discount. I have had that happen to me too.


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## Northwest_painter (Jan 27, 2012)

Gough said:


> It's been my experience that BM is definitely not equal in quality to SW, but Valspar seems to be.
> 
> That's why we use BM


Did I read this right? BM is not equal in quality as SW, So you use BM? I am no Grammar nazi by any stretch of the imagination. I think you meant to say that SW is not equal in quality to BM that is why you use it. they way you have it written is saying BM is sub par to SW so you use BM. Now as for Valspar that is just Blows version of Berh.


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## Northwest_painter (Jan 27, 2012)

CJ-Newfield said:


> Neglecting to focus on specific products while only making generalized brand comparison, is a ludicrous comparison.
> 
> I would use Valper Signature over BM Ultra spec any day of the week.


My opinion is Valspar is Blows version of Behr.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

MikeCalifornia said:


> WRONG!! All stores have a barcode for commercial accounts to extend the discount to them. Most managers will do it for you with no questions asked, but if they don't just ask.
> 
> Also, 40% sales are not a regular thing, they only happen a few times per year and are huge for the company. Think of it this way: HD Behr $36/gallon. SW Superpaint $60/gallon. 40% off = $36/gallon. Very comparable now for the customer who likes SW service and products.
> 
> Again, if you do not have quote pricing for the products you use most frequently, and just complain about the "contractor" pricing you get, you probably deserve it.


Bad analogy. I haven't purchased 25 gals of Behr in my lifetime but can have gold pro account 20% off retail just for asking. Super paint should retail for less than $35 a gallon.


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## CJ-Newfield (Feb 17, 2014)

Northwest_painter said:


> My opinion is Valspar is Blows version of Behr.


And Blows "Olympic" is Home Depots version of "Glidden"?

And can will state all of the above 'as fact' without doing a side by side comparison?


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

MGT Painting said:


> My SW guy just gives me the 40% off when those sales are going on...I never even had to ask.


Same here.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

There is a lot more to Valspar than lowes.


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## CJ-Newfield (Feb 17, 2014)

chrisn said:


> Neglecting to focus on specific products while only making generalized brand comparison, is a ludicrous comparison.
> 
> I would use Valper Signature over BM Ultra spec any day of the week.
> 
> ...


And some doctors advise their patients not to smoke, to eat healthy and to exercise, and their reply is similar to your post.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Northwest_painter said:


> Did I read this right? BM is not equal in quality as SW, So you use BM? I am no Grammar nazi by any stretch of the imagination. I think you meant to say that SW is not equal in quality to BM that is why you use it. they way you have it written is saying BM is sub par to SW so you use BM. Now as for Valspar that is just Blows version of Berh.


I think he was saying they aren't equal - BM is better.


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## Northwest_painter (Jan 27, 2012)

Jmayspaint said:


> There is a lot more to Valspar than lowes.


Well to buy Valspar were I am at you have to buy it at Blows!


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## Northwest_painter (Jan 27, 2012)

RH said:


> I think he was saying they aren't equal - BM is better.


I know, have to bust them mods chops every now and then.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Northwest_painter said:


> Did I read this right? BM is not equal in quality as SW, So you use BM? I am no Grammar nazi by any stretch of the imagination. I think you meant to say that SW is not equal in quality to BM that is why you use it. they way you have it written is saying BM is sub par to SW so you use BM. Now as for Valspar that is just Blows version of Berh.


Or math nazi either??  At no point did I write that BM was subpar to SW. All I said is that they are not equal. Sorry for your confusion.


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## Northwest_painter (Jan 27, 2012)

Gough said:


> Or math nazi either??  At no point did I write that BM was subpar to SW. All I said is that they are not equal. Sorry for your confusion.


hey have to stir the paint can every now and then or this place get as exciting as watching paint dry! Pun intended.


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## A Better Painter (Jun 25, 2008)

SW - once for the painter... now the facade is for the customer = "sales" and stuff. They charge so much for their products that sometimes they can "afford" to run sales. I use ICI - Duluxe, Glidden, when available. Great service and prices, serve the painter, the backbone of the industry. I wish one could go to a SW and find products that have been proven and worked for decades, or centuries. It sometimes appears to be a product testing facility.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Gough said:


> I think this has come up before, but I 'm curious how many outfits here itemize their bids? We never have and I wonder if it might be a regional thing, like dealing with those chea...er, frugal New Englanders.


From the posts I have read, I get the idea that some do itemize paint costs, and some re-sell it with necessary mark-up and sales tax on their bill.

I think I used to itemize paint costs way back when the the earth was flat. A practice that was fraught with bickerings and grumblings from the typical tight-ass, cheap, yankee penny pinchers. And a practice I soon learned not to do.

BUT, S-W's pricing mood swings (PMS) does make it harder to price out a job.


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## Cam3sc (Mar 25, 2013)

so long paint talk


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## ZKPainting (Oct 6, 2012)

I too have been frustrated with SW, but have learned to take advantage of these sales and buy large quantities of untinted products. It is quite a cost savings if you have the capital or credit. I cant seem to get near 40% off Emerald and i use a ton of it. So SW wants some of the DIY market share, I dont blame them. But as a contractor you have to understand and act accordingly its a constantly changing world and we must adapt. They understand that humans are creatures of habit and getting a DIYer to buy even one gallon starts the process of creating a new customer. SW is a billion dollar corp. which is not inherently a bad thing but comes with clear advantages and disadvantages. Try to understand their economic incentives and it helps with the frustrations. In any given year I purchase paint from a number of paint stores depending on the area Im working in and SW is great for consistency that way. Figure out whats most important to you when it comes to your paint store and act accordingly. You may wish for better options but I for one am done losing sleep about things I cant change. Good luck!


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

ZKPainting said:


> I too have been frustrated with SW, but have learned to take advantage of these sales and buy large quantities of untinted products. It is quite a cost savings if you have the capital or credit. I cant seem to get near 40% off Emerald and i use a ton of it. So SW wants some of the DIY market share, I dont blame them. But as a contractor you have to understand and act accordingly its a constantly changing world and we must adapt. They understand that humans are creatures of habit and getting a DIYer to buy even one gallon starts the process of creating a new customer. SW is a billion dollar corp. which is not inherently a bad thing but comes with clear advantages and disadvantages. Try to understand their economic incentives and it helps with the frustrations. In any given year I purchase paint from a number of paint stores depending on the area Im working in and SW is great for consistency that way. Figure out whats most important to you when it comes to your paint store and act accordingly. You may wish for better options but I for one am done losing sleep about things I cant change. Good luck!


I agree with you and might add that, ultimately, whether you mark up the price of paint or not, it is the customer who is paying for the paint. I have yet to win a bid and have the price of SW paint go up in between the time I won the bid and actually purchased the paint. Also, I like Zinsser Bullseye 1 2 3 primer, which SW doesn't sell, and Kilz pro 310 dead flat for painting ceilings, which SW doesn't sell. So, I am not relying on SW products exclusively, and all this means that one has to be flexible.


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

SemiproJohn said:


> Another perplexing thing about SW is this: I have been told at the SW store I regularly use that I actually get a higher discount than that of contractors who are more established and who purchase significantly greater amounts of paint than I.
> 
> It seems that SW wishes to gain the business of as many painters as possible. To do this, they give high discounts initially and, over time, reduce the percentage of the discount.


 I have found this to be true also. They will ***** themselves out trying to get you to buy more regularly.
It's like the bank that offers better interest rates to new customers...what about the "old" customers that have been loyal for a long time helping to sustain the business model.

It just seems to be the new way of doing business by larger companies in this new economy. Constantly doing whatever they have to, to do more volume.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

CliffK said:


> I have found this to be true also. They will ***** themselves out trying to get you to buy more regularly.
> It's like the bank that offers better interest rates to new customers...what about the "old" customers that have been loyal for a long time helping to sustain the business model.
> 
> It just seems to be the new way of doing business by larger companies in this new economy. Constantly doing whatever they have to, to do more volume.


Couldn't agree more. I think insurance companies (home and auto) do the same thing, offering a better rate to a new customer than the longtime, loyal customers get. There is something just not right about that. :blink:


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

slinger58 said:


> There is something just not right about that. :blink:


 Yeah...that's the "cavemen" in us talking. "They're" waiting for our generation to die out. The younger people I talk with don't seem to have as much problem with the system. They are not loyal customers to begin with...they just follow the sale. I'm not sure who started it, but I believe it was business. They have basically taught a new generation of consumer that being a loyal customer doesn't pay. That goes against everything I have always believed so it's frustrating and I start to sound like a grouchy "ol man... lol


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## Cam3sc (Mar 25, 2013)

So far it's the same members that are talking about how SW screws them over and you guys for a year say you don't go to SW but you guys cry like your still getting screwed over? What's the point?


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

CliffK said:


> Yeah...that's the "cavemen" in us talking. "They're" waiting for our generation to die out. The younger people I talk with don't seem to have as much problem with the system. They are not loyal customers to begin with...they just follow the sale. I'm not sure who started it, but I believe it was business. They have basically taught a new generation of consumer that being a loyal customer doesn't pay. That goes against everything I have always believed so it's frustrating and I start to sound like a grouchy "ol man... lol


Lol. I admit to being a grouchy old man. :yes:

I think the banks and insurance companies are betting that we hate the hassle of changing banks or insurance more than we hate being charged more than a new customer. They are probably right in my case, but if I live to retirement my new hobby may be worrying the living hell out of bankers and insurance agents over rates. :jester:


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

paul carey said:


> Your comments echo the frustrations of many small painting contractors as
> to the way SW treat many of us.
> They retail at very high rate then give a fair discount for a few products that we would use on a regular basis, but then take back some of that discount should you use a product that does not get the fair discount.
> They have different levels of discount, for the small guy with several helpers it is tough to get a good deal from them, the volume they would use is not big enough. The retail customer who buys at regular price is being ripped off, only when the 30-40% sale is on are they getting a fair deal.
> ...


That is why I purchased over 40k last year from Guirys, a local ben moore store. My business actually improved and grew due to better products at better prices. True story, talking to my bm rep he said a contractor complained about frog tape being a buck more at Guirys over sw. After reviewing his receipt the rep found that sw was charging 11 dollars more then bm for a large roll of plastic. Guirys price 11 dollars. Sw price 22 for same brand and size.
Continuing down the receipt the rep found brown 12 inch masking paper at close to 3 dollars a roll and guirys price at over a dollar less per roll. The rep gave the guy pricing on all products and paints in store. The guy doesnt shop at sw anylonger because even at a decent volume he was not given good pricing at sw. Across the board bm is far superior. Aura better than emerald. Regal or natura better than harmony, duration or cashmere. Ben better than super paint. Ultra spec better than pm 200.
Superspec blows the doors off pm 400. Advance better than pro classic. Its just better at bm. My company has run comparisons on all of these. Bm always comes out on top. Who cares if sw can sell to new construction for less. Eventually all companies have to go to repaints and that is where bm excels whether interior or exterior. We as a third generation company were not loyal to either one until we compared, tested and then decided. Eventually corporate greedy sw will fall. Only a matter of time.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Cam3sc said:


> So far it's the same members that are talking about how SW screws them over and you guys for a year say you don't go to SW but you guys cry like your still getting screwed over? What's the point?


Let's see, at 4:18 p.m. you said "so long Paint Talk". 

At 7:03 p.m. you're posting again. 

You seem to be indecisive about this. 

Are you with Sherwin-Williams?


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Zoomer said:


> That is why I purchased over 40k last year from Guirys, a local ben moore store. My business actually improved and grew due to better products at better prices. True story, talking to my bm rep he said a contractor complained about frog tape being a buck more at Guirys over sw. After reviewing his receipt the rep found that sw was charging 11 dollars more then bm for a large roll of plastic. Guirys price 11 dollars. Sw price 22 for same brand and size.
> Continuing down the receipt the rep found brown 12 inch masking paper at close to 3 dollars a roll and guirys price at over a dollar less per roll. The rep gave the guy pricing on all products and paints in store. The guy doesnt shop at sw anylonger because even at a decent volume he was not given good pricing at sw. Across the board bm is far superior. Aura better than emerald. Regal or natura better than harmony, duration or cashmere. Ben better than super paint. Ultra spec better than pm 200.
> Superspec blows the doors off pm 400. Advance better than pro classic. Its just better at bm. My company has run comparisons on all of these. Bm always comes out on top. Who cares if sw can sell to new construction for less. Eventually all companies have to go to repaints and that is where bm excels whether interior or exterior. We as a third generation company were not loyal to either one until we compared, tested and then decided. Eventually corporate greedy sw will fall. Only a matter of time.



Zoomer, I agree with the spirit of your post. But these days, SW is too big to fail. Like so many "mega-corps" these days, if they fall onto bad times, then we the taxpayers will carry the burden of "propping" them up. After all the "bail-outs" over the past few decades, I start to wonder if government assistance is part of corporate planning these days.

Not trying to get political in the wrong zone, just a thought about SW corporate strategy.


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

straight_lines said:


> Bad analogy. I haven't purchased 25 gals of Behr in my lifetime but can have gold pro account 20% off retail just for asking. Super paint should retail for less than $35 a gallon.


This is actually a true analogy. Have you seen the retail prices at SW? Crazy. When I was a store manager, people would literally walk out the door after seeing the pricing on the paint selector. SW is big on working with reps and store staff on overcoming price objections. Sometimes 40% is too much to overcome just on the merits of a product. When they have 25, 30, 35, 40% off sales it levels the playing field when comparing like products from HD and Lowes.

Rarely did I ever sell paint at full retail price. HO get 10% off just for signing up for a cash account. I think I sold a quart of Resilience for $25 once?


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Cam3sc said:


> So far it's the same members that are talking about how SW screws them over and you guys for a year say you don't go to SW but you guys cry like your still getting screwed over? What's the point?


please refer to post 42


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

slinger58 said:


> Let's see, at 4:18 p.m. you said "so long Paint Talk".
> 
> At 7:03 p.m. you're posting again.
> 
> ...


Just like the vid he posted, that dude kept coming back!


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

MikeCalifornia said:


> This is actually a true analogy. Have you seen the retail prices at SW? Crazy. When I was a store manager, people would literally walk out the door after seeing the pricing on the paint selector. SW is big on working with reps and store staff on overcoming price objections. Sometimes 40% is too much to overcome just on the merits of a product. When they have 25, 30, 35, 40% off sales it levels the playing field when comparing like products from HD and Lowes.
> 
> Rarely did I ever sell paint at full retail price. HO get 10% off just for signing up for a cash account. I think I sold a quart of Resilience for $25 once?


I should clarify that sp and Behr aren't comparable imo. Behr is the better product and much cheaper retail.


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## A+HomeWork (Dec 10, 2010)

Gymschu said:


> Believe it or not, Jmays, but, SW doesn't give the contractor the 40% off price during their "homeowner" sales events. I have purchased paint during the sale thinking, "Wow, 40% off, I'm going to make a killing on materials on this current job." THen I look at the receipt and see my usual contractor pricing which is no where near the 40% off price. If you complain enough they buckle and redo your purchase to reflect the 40% off pricing.


I walk in and just tell them to ring me up cash sale and they give.me all the paint I want. I don't even have to take it all with me. My store hates the sales dates too. 
I had him ring me up 20 gallons of Duration and took none with me. When I come in to buy it for a job, it will ring up 40% off. I didn't even pay for it yet.


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## paul carey (Feb 2, 2012)

There have been many good points abut SW, both positive and negative.
They help drive the US economy, employ lots of people with steady jobs and 
are unmatched at a national level on sales and service.
Can they improve their products, yes they can and can they give the small contractor a better deal, another yes.
Profit is a good thing and SW have been showing very well in this department for a number of years in basically a flat to poor economy,
They do need to hear the concerns of many small painters though, that their
pricing is very high and we need a better deal than the housewife who visits the store once a year because she is bored with builders beige on their new home!
By the way, no government bail required for SW, just look at the quarterly profit.


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## autobear (Apr 29, 2014)

SW's only concern is DiYers and stealing share from lowes and Home Depot at the expense of contractors. There is no growth with the contractors, only the DIY. Because it's a business segment they have never gone after. It's all about DIY! 


Sent from my iPhone using PaintTalk.com


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

The SW in Hillsboro Oregon has Hot Tamalies in their candy machine :thumbup:


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## ShermanMoore (Mar 23, 2014)

autobear said:


> SW's only concern is DiYers and stealing share from lowes and Home Depot at the expense of contractors. There is no growth with the contractors, only the DIY. Because it's a business segment they have never gone after. It's all about DIY!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PaintTalk.com



As far as commercial painters go, SW largely has them in many/most regions so there's not much room for growth. Of course the DIY segment is super important: if you only had 10-12% of a certain market segment with HUGE potential volume, wouldn't you want to tap it? Big Box-using painters are also a huge focus however and recently a new price schedule came out just to target them. SW wants growth in EVERY segment, believe me.


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## PRECISIONVANCOUVER (Apr 15, 2013)

Gough said:


> It's been my experience that BM is definitely not equal in quality to SW, but Valspar seems to be.
> 
> That's why we use BM


I use General Paint.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

PRECISIONVANCOUVER said:


> I use General Paint.


I generally use paint also!


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## paintball head (Mar 3, 2012)

mudbone said:


> I generally use paint also!


You are on a hot streak today. :notworthy:


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## Cutandroll (Mar 3, 2014)

I like my sw pricing and my reps work with me on discounting to public and make sure my price is better but ben more ultra spec 500. I can't seem to get away from.


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## Northwest_painter (Jan 27, 2012)

well back in the summer swing of doing this semi retired and have a few houses lined up. went to my SW store to get the price on paint. same manager I tell him what I needed he prints it up and I look at it and it is just 15% off retail. I am what the Fig newton? He goes hey you have not bought from me for a while so we adjusted your price. I go OK I will call you when I need it. drove over to the Rodda store told the manager what I needed he handed me the price of what SW used to give me. I go is this quote right? his responce was yes it is we don't fluctuate on pricing. here is our retail price, and here is your contractors price. will be your set price for the year no matter how much you buy. Simple easy, and today the SW rep called me and asked if I was ready for that paint. I said Nope bought else were at the price you used to give me. He asked what about loyalty? I told him it goes both ways.


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## Monstertruck (Oct 26, 2013)

Northwest_painter said:


> well back in the summer swing of doing this semi retired and have a few houses lined up. went to my SW store to get the price on paint. same manager I tell him what I needed he prints it up and I look at it and it is just 15% off retail. I am what the Fig newton? He goes hey you have not bought from me for a while so we adjusted your price. I go OK I will call you when I need it. drove over to the Rodda store told the manager what I needed he handed me the price of what SW used to give me. I go is this quote right? his responce was yes it is we don't fluctuate on pricing. here is our retail price, and here is your contractors price. will be your set price for the year no matter how much you buy. Simple easy, and today the SW rep called me and asked if I was ready for that paint. I said Nope bought else were at the price you used to give me. He asked what about loyalty? I told him *it goes both ways*.


POP goes da weasel!


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## A+HomeWork (Dec 10, 2010)

Man! I'm glad my sw manager treats me so well. I love my store. I tell him about some of the threads I read here too.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I547 using PaintTalk.com mobile app


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

From all the stories it sounds like the issue isn't with Sherwin but with the managers/operators. 

As for the company I think they can/have the ability to wheel & deal, but the problem is whether or not the people there want to do so. Granted they do have profit benchmarks they need/want to meet.

In a nutshell the main problem boils down to "the people" vs. the company. Could there be policy/training changes...yeah. But there will always be people working that don't want / don't like to do what they do and give people a hard time. Just like dealing with customers, you have a few that are real nice and are understanding and others that are just a real pain about all kinds of things.

My 2 cents.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Paintinglife said:


> I've been using SW since early 2000's. Most of my work is residential repaints. SW products are excellent, at least in my experience with Loxon conditioner, Super Paint, Resilience and Duration.
> 
> My frustration started during the building boom. Prices went through the roof and supply of high end products was limited. The supply limitations have left me looking unprofessional in front of customers. And the price increases seem very unreasonable. Furthermore their 40% off public sale makes me feel ripped off! Why does the public get a better discount than my volume discount?
> 
> ...


Why do you care about their overall business model? If you are treated well with good service, pricing and product...

How would you feel if a customer of yours questioned how you deal with other customers?


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Northwest_painter said:


> well back in the summer swing of doing this semi retired and have a few houses lined up. went to my SW store to get the price on paint. same manager I tell him what I needed he prints it up and I look at it and it is just 15% off retail. I am what the Fig newton? He goes hey you have not bought from me for a while so we adjusted your price. I go OK I will call you when I need it. drove over to the Rodda store told the manager what I needed he handed me the price of what SW used to give me. I go is this quote right? his responce was yes it is we don't fluctuate on pricing. here is our retail price, and here is your contractors price. will be your set price for the year no matter how much you buy. Simple easy, and today the SW rep called me and asked if I was ready for that paint. I said Nope bought else were at the price you used to give me. He asked what about loyalty? I told him it goes both ways.


Can't blame you.Wanting loyalty for royalty!


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## capepainter (Mar 9, 2012)

I wonder how are planned these sw sales are I see them pop up all the time , they've even called me to tell me about them I don't know if they are country or state wide or to make store quota's , it does piss me off when I purchase a bunch of product then two days later I get a call saying everything is 40% off . and I'm at aware customer is paying for it .


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## Northwest_painter (Jan 27, 2012)

capepainter said:


> I wonder how are planned these sw sales are I see them pop up all the time , they've even called me to tell me about them I don't know if they are country or state wide or to make store quota's , it does piss me off when I purchase a bunch of product then two days later I get a call saying everything is 40% off . and I'm at aware customer is paying for it .


SW Has 40% off sales every April, July, sept, and december. 30% sales every may, aug, and Jan, 15% off every Feb, April, Jun, sept, and dec also. So to have sales like this you can see the mark up that goes in to the product.


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## ShermanMoore (Mar 23, 2014)

Northwest_painter said:


> SW Has 40% off sales every April, July, sept, and december. 30% sales every may, aug, and Jan, 15% off every Feb, April, Jun, sept, and dec also. So to have sales like this you can see the mark up that goes in to the product.


If you think that markup isn't there with other manufacturers, keep dreaming. Take a company like BM: first BM has to make a tidy profit selling to the independent dealer and then the dealer has to make money selling it to you, usually with a 40-50% margin. The dealer and BM combined make what SW would, so the markup is the same but here and there SW gives people a break and slashes margins for the sake of moving gallons.


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

Ummmm how much do you think that shirt you bought at Walmart for $5 cost them? 50% and up is a normal margin for any retail operation.

Just think of your own paint business. If you sold a job for $2000 and only made $500 after buying paint and material costs, you would go broke pretty quick at 25% GP. You then have to pay labor and operating expenses just like SW, just like BM, just like HD, and hopefully have some left for profit to grow your business.

It's called target marketing sales people!! If you were trying to court that apartment complex who uses your competitor, do you think it is a good idea to schmooze the maintenance supervisor only to give him a custom home paint job quote? No, he would laugh and keep on using the other guy. Get em in the door for 90% of the job, charge them a little more on the next gallon, keep smiling to earn the next one they need product on. I would hope you don't keep giving friends and family discounts to everyone that mentions they know your cousin, who you did work for two years ago.


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

I just dont get the whining. Must be a broke painter thing.

Rarely ever do I even bother with those details. I round my prices up, add 15% (you ARE doing that, right?) & it softens the blow considerably. 

I shot from the hip today, and quoted paint at $40/gal. Bought it for 25. Had it been 50 it still wouldnt have hurt the bid. 

Now, I dont bid tight. And thats why. Prices swing bigtime. 

I dont even ask what the bill is, less stress. If it ate into my profit $30-50 oh well. 

Add a gallon to your bid, whether you buy it or not and quit whining.


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## Northwest_painter (Jan 27, 2012)

ShermanMoore said:


> If you think that markup isn't there with other manufacturers, keep dreaming. Take a company like BM: first BM has to make a tidy profit selling to the independent dealer and then the dealer has to make money selling it to you, usually with a 40-50% margin. The dealer and BM combined make what SW would, so the markup is the same but here and there SW gives people a break and slashes margins for the sake of moving gallons.


I under stand that and most adults know that. A company is to make a profit. I was just ponting out the fact that the company has a huge mark up and they play the guess what price you are going to get today! What if you found out that you buy more paint then paint company x and paint company x gets a better discount? then what. I told one of my customers to buy their paint on the next 40% discount because they will get a better price on SW then me.


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

Northwest_painter said:


> I under stand that and most adults know that. A company is to make a profit. I was just ponting out the fact that the company has a huge mark up and they play the guess what price you are going to get today! What if you found out that you buy more paint then paint company x and paint company x gets a better discount? then what. I told one of my customers to buy their paint on the next 40% discount because they will get a better price on SW then me.


Again.....if your pricing is not in the range of 30-40% off retail from rep/manager quotes already YOU are doing something wrong!! Why complain on a painting forum that a HO is getting a better price then you. Make some friends in the store, ask for a quote on your most used products, 99% of the time, they are more than happy to accomodate your requests. All paint companies want your business, you are their bread and butter, not HO's.


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## A+HomeWork (Dec 10, 2010)

Mike, I paid under $43 for Duration satin today. Just ask and they'll figure something out. I think there must be some stores with bad managers and reps. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I547 using PaintTalk.com mobile app


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

driftweed said:


> I just dont get the whining. Must be a broke painter thing.
> 
> Rarely ever do I even bother with those details. I round my prices up, add 15% (you ARE doing that, right?) & it softens the blow considerably.
> 
> ...


 better yet


just don't go to SW to buy paint :whistling2:


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## Northwest_painter (Jan 27, 2012)

chrisn said:


> better yet
> 
> 
> just don't go to SW to buy paint :whistling2:


Yep unless a customer demands SW. I go else were. as for price and low balling. it is reputation that precedes you and 98% of the time it wins the bid. I been out of the biz enjoying my retirement and been getting calls from past customers and people that have been referred to me. I always give a set price and when it comes to guess what price your paying today happens. I could win or lose money and yah the customer buys the paint. I like a locked in price and no huge swings from one order to the next. That way I can give a bid right on the spot hand written ready to start the next day. Not have to say I will e-mail your bid or call you. because I have to wheel and deal with the paint store.


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## Professional Painter (Mar 15, 2014)

If you charge retail for the paint, then you won't have to wait. If you want to place blame, take a closer look at your bidding process.

Professional Painter


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## Northwest_painter (Jan 27, 2012)

Professional Painter said:


> If you charge retail for the paint, then you won't have to wait. If you want to place blame, take a closer look at your bidding process.
> 
> Professional Painter


Understand the consept. Just that SW plays the guess the price game every time. Don't like it. I charge a percentage over what I pay always. it is fixed so if paint and supplies and sundries cost x I charge a percentage to get Y it is not the price that bothers me it is the way they set the price each time I have walked in the store. So I have stopped going there and use a local regional company that is simple plain pricing.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

capepainter said:


> I wonder how are planned these sw sales are I see them pop up all the time , they've even called me to tell me about them I don't know if they are country or state wide or to make store quota's , it does piss me off when I purchase a bunch of product then two days later I get a call saying everything is 40% off . and I'm at aware customer is paying for it .


Don't take this to the bank, but I thought here in MA if a consumer buys a producy one day and the next day (I thought even within a week) the product is discounted, the consumer was allowed to get the difference refunded. 

BUT PLEASE check this out before asking SW for your just deserts



Northwest_painter said:


> Understand the consept. Just that SW plays the guess the price game every time. Don't like it. I charge a percentage over what I pay always. it is fixed so if paint and supplies and sundries cost x I charge a percentage to get Y it is not the price that bothers me it is the way they set the price each time I have walked in the store. So I have stopped going there and use a local regional company that is simple plain pricing.


Northwest,

What I see here are the valid complaints by many about the unpredictability of SW pricing while others think (and complain about) the complaining is about SW pricing in general and their need to make a profit.

Apparently those who are complaining about the complaining are not understanding the nature of the original complaint. And I think it is probably a waste of time reiterating, restating, and repeating the nature of that original complaint over and over.

I too am sick of SW's inconsistent and unpredictable pricing, as I've said before, how can one accurately price a job if one does not know what his numbers will be in 30 days. IMO, good business is having a realistic grasp on the numbers, and is not solved by over-pricing everything to take care of all possible contingencies, but I'm funny about my desire for accuracy.

IMO, SW quality is not worth the aggravation.


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

daArch said:


> Don't take this to the bank, but I thought here in MA if a consumer buys a producy one day and the next day (I thought even within a week) the product is discounted, the consumer was allowed to get the difference refunded.
> 
> BUT PLEASE check this out before asking SW for your just deserts
> 
> ...


To the first point, for customers, SW has a barcode that will honor a sale price for up to a certain number of days after a sale has ended. I can't remember what that number is, 7?

To your second, as a contractor who bids work, how can you not know what your pricing is? If you use SW on a regular basis, would you not have a price sheet from your rep/manager? Same at BM right? Or do you just rely on the paint store giving you a "contractor" discount because you are a contractor. The concept of giving a substantial discount to a contractor at the retail level has changed, some of the PT'rs just don't get that yet. 

I use five different paint companies. If I was using 3-5 on a job and the price I expected to pay for a similar quality product from 1-2 was waaaaay out of line, I would say something. I expect to pay more because I don't buy as much, but I won't pay that much more, there is a line.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Mike,

Excuse me if I am assuming something false, but it sounds like you do not deal with S-W on a regular basis. 

Do you?

I have gotten different pricing (approx 20% difference) on the same product in the same store from the same manager within two months. Yes I said something and got my previous pricing. But because I do not feel I should not NEED to check and correct scurrilous pricing tactics, I will take my business to a supplier who is more honorable.

Does this new age pricing mean one can not count on the same product being the same price (within a few points) from the same store for a period of 40 days ?


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

daArch said:


> Mike,
> 
> Excuse me if I am assuming something false, but it sounds like you do not deal with S-W on a regular basis.
> 
> ...


More than 50% of my purchasing. You know my background, a manager for SW for 13 years. I'm not an SW homer, but nitpicking about sales pricing, does bring about an itch that I have to scratch.

I think I explained what happened to you thoroughly in another post. 

I like the fact that reps and managers at SW have more leeway to change prices on the spot. This does pose a problem when the price is not put in as a quote and left as a one time purchase. Having multiple accounts from different stores will also create pricing discrepancies. Other examples, would be using another contractors account to extend a better price to you, does not happen often, but newbies and part-timers will do this if flustered. 

But again, regardless of where you shop, I think we all as paint contractors would have a better grasp on what our pricing is on the most used products.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Sorry Mike,

I do not remember your background. Don't take it personally, but not only are there too many personalities here to remember everyone, but part of me purposefully does not try to remember every post by every person, it helps me not build either an overly negative or positive picture of every participant. A leftover from being a mod.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

MikeCalifornia said:


> More than 50% of my purchasing. You know my background, a manager for SW for 13 years. I'm not an SW homer, but nitpicking about sales pricing, does bring about an itch that I have to scratch.
> 
> I think I explained what happened to you thoroughly in another post.
> 
> ...


Since I'm not the one punching the keys on the computer in the SW store, I don't know if it's put in as a "quote" or a "one time purchase". As far as "multiple accounts from different stores" ..........No, it's just me, same guy with the same account for the past 30 years. 

And yet I get charged a different amount for the same product, on the same day at a SW store 8 miles away. And I'm talking an $8-$10/gal difference.

Can it be fixed? Absolutely.......if I'm vigilant enough to catch the error before I sign the ticket. Then I can wait while they call my "home store" and see if the manager of that store is available to do a price correction. 

Now, all of you who say this is my fault for not dealing with a "rep" or not doing whatever the hell it is I'm supposed to do as a CUSTOMER to get CONSISTENT pricing, I want you to hear this....

I _don't_ expect to get the same prices as a high volume buyer.

I _do_ like the personnel at the SW store I go into the most, great guys.

I _do_ like a lot of the SW products.

I _don't_ have to deal with the price consistency issue at any other supplier other than SW.

And since I have a regional supplier and a BM dealer close by, I haven't generated a bill from SW for a couple of months now.

Take from that what you will.:thumbsup:


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

I dunno, guess im weird. I price it at retail so swings dont hurt me.

Priced 6 gal of Superdeck to the customer @ $56/gal (retail). Paid $35/gal. Would 40 or even 50 killed me? Nope.

No one else does this?

I take the stance that any & all discounts are "bonuses" & not guaranteed. Then when a discount swing occurs, I'm not standing in the store throwing a tantrum like a diva.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

driftweed said:


> I dunno, guess im weird. I price it at retail so swings dont hurt me.
> 
> Priced 6 gal of Superdeck to the customer @ $56/gal (retail). Paid $35/gal. Would 40 or even 50 killed me? Nope.
> 
> ...


Never seen a "diva tantrum" in a paint store. 

Don't want to, either.


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

slinger58 said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> Never seen a "diva tantrum" in a paint store.
> 
> Don't want to, either.


I have, and it drives me nuts. That would actually be my complaint. Contractors haggling over prices. Sheesh, pay for the damned paint so others can get outta there too...

I just want to say: Dude, if it affects you that much maybe you should just stop being self employed. 

:blink:


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## Professional Painter (Mar 15, 2014)

You know, maybe this is why I never have an issue with my SW pricing. *I let them know what my pricing is before they even pull it up.* Let's say that a particular paint type and selection is $17.27 a gallon. I tell them the main account number, what sub account to place it under and tell them when the gallon price is at $17.27 a gallon, then they have found the right account.

At that point, they print out the receipt with the correct pricing.

I do have a professional representative, I do have the quotes in writing for each and every paint type and sundry I commonly use and I do have the the prices for each easily accessible in the phone. All available at a moments notice.

If there is a pricing discrepancy, I can always call my rep and have him change the pricing on the spot and if he is unavailable, he can always readjust the incorrect pricing back to the correct pricing whenever he does become available.

Some of the folks on this board make the SW process MUCH harder than it has to be. Much, much harder. If those that complain would take the time to follow the advice offered, then their attitude towards SW might just change. Stop dealing with the store level mangers and get yourself a professional paint representative is the first step.

The second step is to document everything and have it accessible on your phone. At that point, you can tell THEM what your pricing is, as the quotes prices are not subject to change (once approved from SW Corporate) during the quoted time frame.

It really can be that simple. 

Professional Painter.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Professional Painter said:


> You know, maybe this is why I never have an issue with my SW pricing. *I let them know what my pricing is before they even pull it up.* Let's say that a particular paint type and selection is $17.27 a gallon. I tell them the main account number, what sub account to place it under and tell them when the gallon price is at $17.27 a gallon, then they have found the right account.
> 
> At that point, they print out the receipt with the correct pricing.
> 
> ...


Apologies from a simpleton, but your corrective measures for their pricing "system" do NOT sound "really that simple"

I have a feeling many of the professionals here would like to walk into a store, order their stock or put the sundries on the counter, tell the clerk their name, and sign the slip . . . . PERIOD. Anything more makes the sale more complicated than a busy contractor would like to encounter. 

At least I get that feeling. But what do I know, I've only been at this for 45 years. I'm old, I'm impatient, I want to get in and out of a store with as little BS as possible and get back to work for the people who are paying me.

And having worked retail in a mom and pop, the contractors I dealt with also would not put up with the corrective measures you employ with SW.


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## Professional Painter (Mar 15, 2014)

Now let's say that you do have a project or something that is not included on your quoted pricing, *call your professional paint representative*. There are ways he can make a one time deal, pricing for a particular product until a project is completed or simply add that product(s) to your quoted pricing if you intend to use that product frequently.

I have even gone to purchase paint at the normal contractor's discount because the representative was busy or on vacation. No problem. Whenever I got back with him, he readjusted the pricing to my new quoted pricing. By the time I get the bill, all pricing for that product(s) were consistent across the board.

Knowing this, it doesn't really matter what "discount" the store level rep or manager offers. The professional paint representative can readjust at any given point in time.

Now if you say that you don't have the time for this? Well, then I guess you don't have the time to recoup thousands of dollars over the course of the month and that you would rather work to make that money back. Not me, I choose to make a phone call to my professional paint representative. If they deliver the paint, you more than made up for that time spent for cost readjustment anyway. On average, I may spend 20-30 minutes a month on pricing readjustments and that's being conservative.

FWIW.

daArch, I hear ya' with being simple. You had stated...



> I have a feeling many of the professionals here would like to walk into a store, order their stock or put the sundries on the counter, tell the clerk their name, and sign the slip . . . . PERIOD.


That's pretty much what I do, when I actually do step foot into a SW store. Once set up, the only thing added would be to tell THEM what my prices are. Even if it is an in-store pick up, I tell them all of the information they need to know while I am driving there. Zero wasted time, 100% pricing accuracy.

Look, I know there are folks that are set in their ways on this board. That's all fine and dandy, I'm getting there myself. What I'm trying to relay is that if you follow the process, no price discrepancies or fluctuations will occur with SW. There actually is a way and that way doesn't require a contractor to waste time dealing with the seemingly overwhelming price fluctuations encountered by many here or waste even time complaining about it.

I have no stake in this game and definitely have zero to gain by educating folks on how I am able to not have to go through the pricing fluctuations from store to store or region to region. If folks want to take advantage of how I am able to purchase from SW without any pricing issues, then they are free to start the first step and learn how easy it really can be. I just figured that I would take the time out of my busy day to illustrate how I am able to NOT have pricing fluctuations. Perhaps it may help somebody out there in PT land.

I was simply offering a solution for those who may be interested.

Professional Painter


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## loaded brush (Dec 27, 2007)

So in a nutshell in order to get consistent pricing from SW you have to jump through this hoop and that hoop, call this rep and that rep, jump down, turn around, pick a bale of cotton. Yet every other supplier I deal with is ALWAYS consistent in my prices from when I originally signed up for a contractor account. And they always keep me informed if and when prices are raised before i do my purchasing. If SW cant keep there sh*t together from day to day for contractors like everyone else, its no wonder they lose so many contractors.


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## Monstertruck (Oct 26, 2013)

loaded brush said:


> So in a nutshell in order to get consistent pricing from SW you have to jump through this hoop and that hoop, call this rep and that rep, *jump down, turn around, pick a bale of cotton*. Yet every other supplier I deal with is ALWAYS consistent in my prices from when I originally signed up for a contractor account. And they always keep me informed if and when prices are raised before i do my purchasing. If SW cant keep there sh*t together from day to day for contractors like everyone else, its no wonder they lose so many contractors.


Considering all that's gone on lately with Mr. Sterling and all


*Oh NO you Dittn't!!!*


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## Professional Painter (Mar 15, 2014)

loaded brush said:


> So in a nutshell in order to get consistent pricing from SW you have to jump through this hoop and that hoop, call this rep and that rep, jump down, turn around, pick a bale of cotton. Yet every other supplier I deal with is ALWAYS consistent in my prices from when I originally signed up for a contractor account. And they always keep me informed if and when prices are raised before i do my purchasing. If SW cant keep there sh*t together from day to day for contractors like everyone else, its no wonder they lose so many contractors.


Oh spare me the  drama. Good grief. Some of you guys are more hard headed than I am....and that's saying something profound.

It's real simple. If you want a consistent SW discount, every contractor out there, even a customer that isn't a contractor but declares himself as one, gets a standard 15% or so discount. 

*So, in a nutshell, if you want consistent pricing that is always the same? Go for the standard SW discount like other companies do and be happy with it. *

If you would like further discounts, breaks on equipment, deals on sundries that a store manager usually won't even offer, personalized service tailored to YOUR specific needs and a representative that will work with you on the pricing beyond the standard 15%, then start with step one.

To make it as simple as I humanly can, here is the three step process;

1 - Get quotes in writing (or emailed to you) for the paint you commonly use.
2 - Load those prices and paint types into your phone.
3 - Tell the sales associates what your price is.

My word man, if you can't handle that then I am surprised many of you have made it this far in the painting business. It's about as simple as it gets......and if you can't handle the simplicity, be happy with the consistent 15% standard contractor discount, stop the whining and be on your merry way down the painting highway.

Some things in life you *do* have to work a little bit for. Discounts shouldn't just be handed out to you simply because you expect it.

Professional Painter


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

What this right here is, is a whole bunch of lashing out against "the man".


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

The 'man' has spoken :notworthy:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

It's official, we are witnessing a PT love fest


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

daArch said:


> It's official, we are witnessing a PT love fest


It is good that you are in this discussion, Bill. The $100 a year in paste you try to buy for nothing in a paint store a great indication of overall pricing. 

Nice job!

:jester:


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

Am i asking too much? Last time i used SW i was spending $60,000 plus a year and that was 2012 when work was slow

all i asked for a steady price, good service & quality product ... it that too much to ask? 

Fast forward to 2014 ... 

the help at SW equals home depot 

new unskilled counter help as employees leave

sells rep change every 3 months, sad that my "rep" has to pull out a tablet to check prices, specs, ect and SW doesn't even provide Internet to them

i see my rep parked at home depot for the free wifi :blink: SW won't even give wifi to customers something that even buying a .99 cent mc d will get you

1 time in 20+ years has product failure and SW double talked, would NOT give ho a written statement as to cause and left me with a few gallons of paint and ran  

and #1 reason i left SW after spending $60,000 in 2012 & running commercials on the radio @ $1,500 a month promoting SW with no help from them i asked for them to donate paint for a Habit For Humanity house we volunteered for & to use their logo in press release and got nothing 

am i pissed? no Do i give my hard earned money to sw? only when i have too

flip side this year ytd spent $72,000 at ppg / porter and very happy :thumbup:


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Repaint Florida said:


> Am i asking too much? Last time i used SW i was spending $60,000 plus a year and that was 2012 when work was slow
> 
> all i asked for a steady price, good service & quality product ... it that too much to ask?
> 
> ...


60-100k a year is your average pot and brush guy.....

break the average and you'll get their attention. 

Everyone crying about these prices should find out when and where the SW Repaint Conference is in your area and go!


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

ewingpainting.net said:


> 60-100k a year is your average pot and brush guy.....
> 
> break the average and you'll get their attention.
> 
> Everyone crying about these prices should find out when and where the SW Repaint Conference is in your area and go!


why i am giving them my money i don't need to chase them

$60,000 a year in paint is "your average pot and brush guy" ???

at $40 a gallon thats between 1,500 gal / 2,500 gal a year you really must have some BIG POT & BRUSHES 

amazing ... how big is your crew? 

you must have misread my post ... everything is cool, i not crying as i SAID in my post i am happy with ppg

And i don't have to attend a "conference" , copy & paste e-mail prices from my rep or have them call my "home store" to get a price 

ppg has it all in thier computer :thumbup: 

no disrespect just my view :notworthy:


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

ewingpainting.net said:


> 60-100k a year is your average pot and brush guy.....


That's a wide range for the "average"! Is this just another example of "SW Math" ©?

:jester:


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Repaint Florida said:


> why i am giving them my money i don't need to chase them
> 
> $60,000 a year in paint is "your average pot and brush guy" ???
> 
> ...


Yearly estimated paint sale is 1.57 billion gallons 
Congratulations you own 0.000628 of the paint market

its not about price, its about understanding our market.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Yearly estimated paint sale is 1.57 billion gallons
> Congratulations you own 0.000628 of the paint market
> 
> its not about price, its about understanding our market.


OTOH, that $60-100K/yr would be the top customer at our local SW...and by a long shot. I never expected much attention from the corporate level folks at SW, but the personnel at the local store had an awful track record. The word on the street is that it improved dramatically when they kept on the staff from the Columbia Paint store after the buyout.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Gough said:


> That's a wide range for the "average"! Is this just another example of "SW Math" ©?
> 
> :jester:


I dont get what your saying, and I dont think its that hard to understand. 100k in paint is a lot of paint for a pot and brush operation, but that is all it equates too a pot and brush operation. Not trying to burst egos here, but it is fact. Move to 50k a month and you'll see a whole new sw.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> It is good that you are in this discussion, Bill. The $100 a year in paste you try to buy for nothing in a paint store a great indication of overall pricing.
> 
> Nice job!
> 
> :jester:


The 'man' has spoken :notworthy:


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

ewingpainting.net said:


> I dont get what your saying, and I dont think its that hard to understand. 100k in paint is a lot of paint for a pot and brush operation, but that is all it equates too a pot and brush operation. Not trying to burst egos here, but it is fact. Move to 50k a month and you'll see a whole new sw.


Gabe, I was just making light of the "40% off" in the range of your "average" number and trying to make a comparison with the sales price approach at SW that spawned this thread. 

Your point is well taken, it was just my feeble attempt at humor.

Carry on.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Gough said:


> Gabe, I was just making light of the "40% off" in the range of your "average" number and trying to make a comparison with the sales price approach at SW that spawned this thread.
> 
> Your point is well taken, it was just my feeble attempt at humor.
> 
> Carry on.


ha! To much time looking at a monitor today


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

Gough said:


> OTOH, that $60-100K/yr would be the top customer at our local SW...and by a long shot. I never expected much attention from the corporate level folks at SW, but the personnel at the local store had an awful track record. The word on the street is that it improved dramatically when they kept on the staff from the Columbia Paint store after the buyout.


 as i said in my post ....
all i asked for a steady price, good service & quality product ... it that too much to ask? 

i don't need your SW Repaint Conference, lunches, t-shirts or customers leads

:no: :no: :no:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Repaint Florida said:


> as i said in my post ....
> all i asked for a steady price, good service & quality product ... it that too much to ask?
> 
> i don't need your SW Repaint Conference, lunches, t-shirts or customers leads
> ...



NOT at all

so many posts in this thread remind me of everready bob


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

RF, its called education if your comfortable where you are, then rock it man


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

Move to 50k a month and you'll see a whole new sw.

i would hope $600,000 a year should get you "service" 

sad to think SW only cares about big ballers 

if i spent $600,000 a year at a casino i would have free room, food, liquor & ????

sad thing is ho can spent $800 and get vip while us low class $60,000 painters get


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

ewingpainting.net said:


> ha! To much time looking at a monitor today


Yea you need to go smoke some meat and make me jealous.


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## Professional Painter (Mar 15, 2014)

Repaint Florida said:


> Move to 50k a month and you'll see a whole new sw.
> 
> i would hope $600,000 a year should get you "service"


Just for the record, we are *nowhere near* this amount per month. When we started, we were 1/100th this amount per month. In my experience, the service has not wavered during this time. As we grew, we haven't experienced anything other than a mutually beneficial relationship. 

I'm guessing that others here haven't had such privilege. This is what I know. I can drop them like a hat and they can increase my prices drastically after the quoted period ends. The power of negotiation and mutual respect can go a long way in maintaining a mutually beneficial relationship.

If and when I ever do get to 50K a month in paint purchases, I don't expect anything to change other than a few perks here and there. It is what it is.

Professional Painter


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Repaint Florida said:


> Move to 50k a month and you'll see a whole new sw.
> 
> i would hope $600,000 a year should get you "service"
> 
> ...


The HO is their high roller, bling bling

I am no high roller by any means, but I do get top notch service. So I dont believe their service changes according to sells. Although, you can be more demanding with higher sells.


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## Monstertruck (Oct 26, 2013)

vermontpainter said:


> What this right here is, is a whole bunch of lashing out against "the man".


 All this talk of 'cotton picking' and 'lashing' is more than I can BEHRRRR.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

ewingpainting.net said:


> The HO is their high roller, bling bling
> 
> I am no high roller by any means, but I do get top notch service. So I dont believe their service changes according to sells. Although, you can be more demanding with higher sells.


 
I am guessing that if all the un happy painters here( myself included) could shop where you do, then we would not be so un happy. maybe?

Maybe, just maybe, ALL sw stores are not the same???:no:


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

chrisn said:


> I am guessing that if all the un happy painters here( myself included) could shop where you do, then we would not be so un happy. maybe?
> 
> Maybe, just maybe, ALL sw stores are not the same???:no:


From the time they opened their store here*, we had the feeling that this was where corporate sent store managers when they screwed up elsewhere, like being sent down to play "A" league ball after a brief shot in the majors.


*Twenty-six years ago.


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## paintball head (Mar 3, 2012)

Gough said:


> From the time they opened their store here*, we had the feeling that this was where corporate sent store managers when they screwed up elsewhere, like being sent down to play "A" league ball after a brief shot in the majors.
> 
> 
> *Twenty-six years ago.


Every time my local SW store manager starts getting some experience, staff included they send them some where else and bring in more green horns. They had one assitant that was so bad if you asked for someone else on the phone he would try and help you. The problem was, he was so inept he couldn't. It got to the point that if he answered when I called I would say sorry wrong # and call back later.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

paintball head said:


> Every time my local SW store manager starts getting some experience, staff included they send them some where else and bring in more green horns. They had one assitant that was so bad if you asked for someone else on the phone he would try and help you. The problem was, he was so inept he couldn't. It got to the point that if he answered when I called I would say sorry wrong # and call back later.


PBH, your post makes me wonder. Using the baseball analogy that I used above, maybe our stores are the "A" league stores, where all the rookies start out. It's "up or out" very quickly. When they first opened and we were giving them a try, they were gone so fast that I stopped bothering to learn their names.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

chrisn said:


> I am guessing that if all the un happy painters here( myself included) could shop where you do, then we would not be so un happy. maybe?
> 
> Maybe, just maybe, ALL sw stores are not the same???:no:


We have over 50 locations in southern California, I have shopped about 15 of them. They all were just as attentive as my home base store. I have not experienced the bad service some have had in this thread. There has been issues, but they/we worked it out. we go on with life in the paint industry moving past the issues.


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## Northwest_painter (Jan 27, 2012)

Well good for you. I just take my money else were. Buy local or regional and have it stay in the region or local area not to have it go back to Ohio. Plus I really like the quality of some of the local paints I have gone to over anything SW can offer and the price is stable.


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

ewingpainting.net said:


> We have over 50 locations in southern California, I have shopped about 15 of them. They all were just as attentive as my home base store. I have not experienced the bad service some have had in this thread. There has been issues, but they/we worked it out. we go on with life in the paint industry moving past the issues.


I agree. We have 15 stores in San Diego and they are all similar in the way they help customers. I think the issue here may be metro vs. rural stores. All trainees start at training stores and are trained by training store managers, normally in a metro area. In a rural setting, unless SW is lucky to have someone that lives in the town and knows their stuff, you have to "ship" someone in. That manager won't want to stay long, so when they get the chance for a promotion, off they go and the cycle starts again. I can see how some areas continue to go through managers this way, and how a BM store would be more inticing because they are mom and pop owned, and personnel does not change much if at all. I'm in a metro area, so the mom & pop type stores are very few and pricing is not competitive. I rely on the corporate type store, SW, DE, Frazee, Vista, HD.

The one thing I think is odd here, do the local BM stores have sales? Do they ever have a sale, where the percent off retail price is better than the contractor price you get day in day out? Is this not the point to your complaints, aside from Da Arch's bucket of paste that he got gyped on. Or is it the fact that SW has so many compared to BM that might only do it a few times a year? I can't believe that BM would not have a sale on every major holiday like everyone else. The outside of holiday sales at SW are usually once a month and only for a week, it's not like they have a month of 25-40% off to retail that you don't get.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

BM has a good share of my sells aswell as Sherwin. I see vista as regional and I dont like how they treat their employees or keep up on their stores. I have backed off Vista a bunch. DE being regional to, I wont touch unless it is hard speced, they have had to many issues with their paint. I gave them a go and my 2nd job in I experienced a failure with "the best paint they ever made" Everest, that stuff is crap and it is supposed to compare to Aura and Duration, not even close. I think id go BEHR before id go DE


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Gough said:


> From the time they opened their store here*, we had the feeling that this was where corporate sent store managers when they screwed up elsewhere, like being sent down to play "A" league ball after a brief shot in the majors.
> 
> 
> *Twenty-six years ago.


The first experience I had with SW was circa 1972, in up-scale suburbia Needham. Being my virginal experience, I had no issue about pricing, but I was disheartened at how far off the color they mixed for me from their paint chip. I was even more perturbed when they refused to correct their mistake, "It matches". I sorta feel bad now that the can slipped out of my hand as I was leaving.

I didn't make it a habit of buying from SW, but once in awhile a customer would spec paint from them. I was never impressed with their professionalism

And then in the late 80's I was hanging in Needham and needed some paste. SW was the only "full service" decorating store. The store was now in a different location (probably didn't like the color of the old floor). The sales drone had NO CLUE what I was asking for. 

And then about 7 years ago, others started praising the manager of the Needham store, Chris. He was great. He special ordered a pallet of Swing which I distributed to the chapter, he ordered me my pair of 6' straight edges, always had the paste I needed and was consistent with the pricing. He wasn't still there within 5 years. Now it's back to square one.

There is just no consistency. 

Thanks but no thanks.


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## Monstertruck (Oct 26, 2013)

You meaning training and retraining store managers and clerks for SW isn't in your job description?:blink:


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

All I will say is California is WAY different than all the rest of the states


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

With the exception of Richmond, I probably go into more paint stores in more states than most painters. I haven't seen a SW that didn't seem up to snuff.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

vermontpainter said:


> With the exception of Richmond, I probably go into more paint stores in more states than most painters. I haven't seen a SW that didn't seem up to snuff.


Road trip??


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Gough said:


> Road trip??


Just finished a 2000 mile tour a couple weeks ago. Went into lots of paint stores.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

vermontpainter said:


> Just finished a 2000 mile tour a couple weeks ago. Went into lots of paint stores.


What parts of the country? I have to wonder if the Intermountain West is what SW uses as their farm system.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Gough said:


> What parts of the country? I have to wonder if the Intermountain West is what SW uses as their farm system.


Maine to Montana.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

No offense to any members, but Canada might be the industry farm system. 

:jester:


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## wje (Apr 11, 2009)

vermontpainter said:


> No offense to any members, but Canada might be the industry farm system. :jester:


None taken


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

wje said:


> None taken


Totally on the supply side. 

There are some great talent and top notch paint contractors obviously!

And probably some hacks too, like everywhere else.


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## wje (Apr 11, 2009)

vermontpainter said:


> Totally on the supply side. There are some great talent and top notch paint contractors obviously! And probably some hacks too, like everywhere else.


Some hacks? I thought most of them were shipped here...


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## autobear (Apr 29, 2014)

SW's number one priority is to go after the DIY business. It's the only way they are going to grow. Unfortunately, it's at the expense of the Pro. Also, what good is a 40% discount off of a 200% inflated retail price? How can a contractor feel good about walking out the door with a $43.00 gallon of paint??? DIY'ers pay less than that for a better product every single day. 


Sent from my iPad using PaintTalk.com


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## Northwest_painter (Jan 27, 2012)

autobear said:


> SW's number one priority is to go after the DIY business. It's the only way they are going to grow. Unfortunately, it's at the expense of the Pro. Also, what good is a 40% discount off of a 200% inflated retail price? How can a contractor feel good about walking out the door with a $43.00 gallon of paint??? DIY'ers pay less than that for a better product every single day.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using PaintTalk.com


That is why I use a differnt paint company That is made locally not sold in California so it does not have the zero VOC problems. It is better to find a regional paint then to use some national brands some times.


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## autobear (Apr 29, 2014)

Zero VOC products are easy to use, simply don't over brush or over roll the product. You'll actually move faster because you don't have to work it as much as paint with VOC's. Adding water to the zero VOC's is VERY common and very much recommended. 1/2 pint of water per gallon, at least. Flotrol is just an opportunity to piss money away, it worked for oil, it's a waste for latex. 


Sent from my iPad using PaintTalk.com


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## A+HomeWork (Dec 10, 2010)

autobear said:


> Zero VOC products are easy to use, simply don't over brush or over roll the product. You'll actually move faster because you don't have to work it as much as paint with VOC's. Adding water to the zero VOC's is VERY common and very much recommended. 1/2 pint of water per gallon, at least. Flotrol is just an opportunity to piss money away, it worked for oil, it's a waste for latex.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using PaintTalk.com


How common is it to add water? Incredibly uncommon for me.
Is this your opinion or do you have some other basis for your comment on Flotrol? Not throwing punches, just askin'.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

A+HomeWork said:


> How common is it to add water? Incredibly uncommon for me.
> Is this your opinion or do you have some other basis for your comment on Flotrol? Not throwing punches, just askin'.


if he was putting it in oil , then yes, his comment made some sense

Flotrol is just an opportunity to piss money away, it worked for oil, it's a waste for latex.


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