# Anyone use SW Cashmere or Emerald trim paint?



## Brian339 (Mar 15, 2009)

What do you think of these products?
My local SW contacted me to try for no cost a gallon of Cashmere and I was very pleased with the results. Dry nice, covered ok but with two finish coats it was superb. I have not tried the Emerald but its much more money and I would like to know if its worth it.
I am forever in search of the ultimate trim paint. Always open to suggestions.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

Brian339 said:


> I am forever in search of the ultimate trim paint. Always open to suggestions.


Just walk into a BM store .... There........ problem solved, search over ....... Deep breath then get a cup of coffee while your there


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## Brian339 (Mar 15, 2009)

Been using BM for 30 years. I like there products but lately not so much. How moaney lines they got 25-30? Even my supplier is confused.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

We use SW Sologloss for all trim and Emerald for exterior doors with great results.


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## oldpaintdoc (Apr 11, 2010)

Brian339 said:


> What do you think of these products?
> My local SW contacted me to try for no cost a gallon of Cashmere and I was very pleased with the results. Dry nice, covered ok but with two finish coats it was superb. I have not tried the Emerald but its much more money and I would like to know if its worth it.
> I am forever in search of the ultimate trim paint. Always open to suggestions.


Love the cashmere as a trim paint and very much dis-like the Emerald for anything.


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## mpminter (Mar 21, 2011)

If you're looking for the ultimate trim paint try using, you know, a trim paint. SW Pro Classic (oil or acrylic-alkyd), BM Advance, BM Satin Impervo, BM waterborne impervo, etc. Cashmere may look ok, but at the end of the day you're using wall paint on trim, and it will never give you a good, hard, enameled finish.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

mpminter said:


> If you're looking for the ultimate trim paint try using, you know, a trim paint. SW Pro Classic (oil or acrylic-alkyd), BM Advance, BM Satin Impervo, BM waterborne impervo, etc. Cashmere may look ok, but at the end of the day you're using wall paint on trim, and it will never give you a good, hard, enameled finish.


I've only used Cashmere once many years ago so not familiar but I was VERY surprised on Scott's recent JLC article that he said two of his favorite trim paints included Cashmere. The other was BM latex satin impervo. More understandable for that one, though I rarely use it due to brushing not being as nice as I'd like. Currently my favorite brushing trim paint (soap & water cleanup) is BM Advance, with that and Cabinet Coat tops for spray. My friend recently told me he loves CC for brushing too. I'll try it next time for that.


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## Brian339 (Mar 15, 2009)

mpminter said:


> If you're looking for the ultimate trim paint try using, you know, a trim paint. SW Pro Classic (oil or acrylic-alkyd), BM Advance, BM Satin Impervo, BM waterborne impervo, etc. Cashmere may look ok, but at the end of the day you're using wall paint on trim, and it will never give you a good, hard, enameled finish.


Can you say this knowing for a fact that there is a difference or are you drawn in by marketing? Are you aware of the fact that these paints have different chemistry making them wall paint only or trim paint only? So in reverse it would be a misuse to use a trim paint on a wall. Or more specifically acrylics. Do any manufactures market a single product as a dual purpose paint?
Pretty sure I know the answer already myself.


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## Toolnut (Nov 23, 2012)

Brian339 said:


> Can you say this knowing for a fact that there is a difference or are you drawn in by marketing? Are you aware of the fact that these paints have different chemistry making them wall paint only or trim paint only? So in reverse it would be a misuse to use a trim paint on a wall. Or more specifically acrylics. Do any manufactures market a single product as a dual purpose paint?
> Pretty sure I know the answer already myself.


Absolutly all in one paint and primer in the same can= dual purpose paint. And if that's not enough try Gliddens new 3 in one paint= primer, paint, and fills, all in one can. Wow a tri purpose paint what more could you ask for a painter in the can?:thumbup::yes::laughing:


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

Brian339 said:


> Can you say this knowing for a fact that there is a difference or are you drawn in by marketing? Are you aware of the fact that these paints have different chemistry making them wall paint only or trim paint only? So in reverse it would be a misuse to use a trim paint on a wall. Or more specifically acrylics. Do any manufactures market a single product as a dual purpose paint?
> Pretty sure I know the answer already myself.


The key to deciding which paint will be the best on trim is "block resistance". Most waterbases "trim enamels" will be 100% acrylic, sterated acrylic, or oil/water hybrids. These products will dry with a harder finish film over a typical vinyl/acrylic "wall paint". Yes, you can use them on walls in reverse, but why? Typically the cost is much higher and the color choices are fewer. With Cashmere being a vinyl/acrylic, it falls below other choices as a trim finish, but is still will work and look great. The "medium luster" would be the only valid choice, but it doesn't come close to the hardness of Proclassic, Solo, or O voc acrylic as a trim finish. If we are talking specifically SW, then Solo is your goto choice as an all in one, since it is int/ext, 100% acrylic non-blocking, self-priming.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Pro Classic, and industrial enamel are the only two brush able trim paints by SW I would suggest using.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

All Surface Enamel?


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## ltd (Nov 18, 2010)

straight_lines said:


> Pro Classic, and industrial enamel are the only two brush able trim paints by SW I would suggest using.


 agree . but i will also use superpaint semi on get and go type jobs.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Damon T said:


> I've only used Cashmere once many years ago so not familiar but I was VERY surprised on Scott's recent JLC article that he said two of his favorite trim paints included Cashmere.


Damon

I do like Cashmere, and we have used it on a couple of $1M+ interiors. I don't like it quite as much as 314. 

Writing for jlc, whose readers are mostly remodelers and carpenters who cross into paint, it didnt make much sense to discuss the super pricy ultra premiums, that are also finicky. 

It was more about helping those guys figure out how to use more of the mid level wb primers and paints to do the smaller types of projects that they do, more conveniently and with less headache. 

I'd never write about paints for an audience of all painters. :no:


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

I've painted quite a few metal doors with alkyd ASE in my time.

It's not the best but it's better than some.


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## Brian339 (Mar 15, 2009)

MikeCalifornia said:


> The key to deciding which paint will be the best on trim is "block resistance". Most waterbases "trim enamels" will be 100% acrylic, sterated acrylic, or oil/water hybrids. These products will dry with a harder finish film over a typical vinyl/acrylic "wall paint". Yes, you can use them on walls in reverse, but why? Typically the cost is much higher and the color choices are fewer. With Cashmere being a vinyl/acrylic, it falls below other choices as a trim finish, but is still will work and look great. The "medium luster" would be the only valid choice, but it doesn't come close to the hardness of Proclassic, Solo, or O voc acrylic as a trim finish. If we are talking specifically SW, then Solo is your goto choice as an all in one, since it is int/ext, 100% acrylic non-blocking, self-priming.


Thank you for your clear and intelligent answer. Its good to know that folks like you post on this board.
I was thinking about this subject while working today and looking my job over. I am working in a residence where all of the occupants are adults. I dont imagine they will be banging much of the woodwork as the home is well kept. I am quite pleased with the look and feel of


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## alertchief (Nov 12, 2009)

Brian339 said:


> Thank you for your clear and intelligent answer. Its good to know that folks like you post on this board.
> I was thinking about this subject while working today and looking my job over. I am working in a residence where all of the occupants are adults. I dont imagine they will be banging much of the woodwork as the home is well kept. I am quite pleased with the look and feel of


One issue about Cashmere i dont like is that it cant be made in ultra deep colors. So whenever a customer throws in dark colors your now using Duration and the sheen doesnt match between products. Also the the sheen choices could use an upgrade. The gap between matte and low lustre is way to much as a good deal of people dont like the very high sheen of low lustre. Never used it on trim but its above average flow and leveling might make it a decent choice. Still use BM advance unless I am told otherwise.


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

alertchief said:


> One issue about Cashmere i dont like is that it cant be made in ultra deep colors. So whenever a customer throws in dark colors your now using Duration and the sheen doesnt match between products. Also the the sheen choices could use an upgrade. The gap between matte and low lustre is way to much as a good deal of people dont like the very high sheen of low lustre. Never used it on trim but its above average flow and leveling might make it a decent choice. Still use BM advance unless I am told otherwise.


I would never use duration home on trim!! For the darker colors, try the new 0 voc acrylic. Comes in three sheens. Or Solo, its all acrylic in the darker bases.


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## mpminter (Mar 21, 2011)

Brian339 said:


> Can you say this knowing for a fact that there is a difference or are you drawn in by marketing? Are you aware of the fact that these paints have different chemistry making them wall paint only or trim paint only? So in reverse it would be a misuse to use a trim paint on a wall. Or more specifically acrylics. Do any manufactures market a single product as a dual purpose paint?
> Pretty sure I know the answer already myself.


Yes, I know for a fact that there is a huge difference between the paints I mentioned and what I referred to as "wall paint". I have no idea how they differ chemically but they look different in the can, smell different, handle differently on the brush, level differently and dry to a much harder finish. My personal favorite is the pro Classic hybrid. Would it be a misuse to apply it on walls? I don't know about that. It would be overkill, thats for sure. I have arrived at my conclusion based upon personal research and experimentation, not what some idiot paint store clerk told me.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> Damon
> 
> I do like Cashmere, and we have used it on a couple of $1M+ interiors. I don't like it quite as much as 314.
> 
> ...


I still take my hat off to ya for writing the article. Well done. I'm always up to hear what super pricy ultra premiums you use any why. Also, where do you get that Zar patch?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Damon T said:


> I still take my hat off to ya for writing the article. Well done. I'm always up to hear what super pricy ultra premiums you use any why. Also, where do you get that Zar patch?


Thanks Damon. I have subscribed to jlc since about '94, so it was cool to work with them on a piece. 

Nothing much new on the pricy front...we have been dabbling in the new BM Grand Entrance, thats about it.

We get that filler locally at our BM store. It shouldnt be too hard to track down, let me know if you need a product #.

Also, I'm finally compiling and putting out a bunch of the eos/xcite stuff that you had asked me about a while ago (on yt and fb).

Hope everyone is getting in the holiday spirit. Cheers!


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## Brian339 (Mar 15, 2009)

The thing I find most disturbing is I was contacted by the SW rep and asked to try some paint on the house. In that conversation I told the rep I have been a BM painter for a few decades. I also mentioned the only paint I could see needing to upgrade would be trim. Not knowing anything about there products he recommended Cashmere and stated that it is there best trim paint and gave me a free gallon. I didnt know it was a wall paint until I posted here. So this leaves my confidence a little shakey with the knowledge in these folks. I plan on bringing it up with him. It will be interesting to hear what he has to say. This is a good forum and I continue to learn and develop in my quest to be a better tradesman.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

For what its worth, SW recommends Cashmere in flat for walls, and medium lustre for doors and trim...


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## Brian339 (Mar 15, 2009)

Thanks Scott for clearing that up. Now I dont understand why the bloke spoke up and stated it was wall paint. I was at my job in progress today and I have to tell you that the third coat looks amazing. The customer is very happy. Its a million something dollar home with stunning trim. Hell even the glass in the french doors are beveled.


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## alertchief (Nov 12, 2009)

Brian339 said:


> The thing I find most disturbing is I was contacted by the SW rep and asked to try some paint on the house. In that conversation I told the rep I have been a BM painter for a few decades. I also mentioned the only paint I could see needing to upgrade would be trim. Not knowing anything about there products he recommended Cashmere and stated that it is there best trim paint and gave me a free gallon. I didnt know it was a wall paint until I posted here. So this leaves my confidence a little shakey with the knowledge in these folks. I plan on bringing it up with him. It will be interesting to hear what he has to say. This is a good forum and I continue to learn and develop in my quest to be a better tradesman.


Isnt that why you have been a BM guy for years... They actually know what they are talking about. Its hard to believe the level of training at the rep level at SW has gotten to this point.


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## Brian339 (Mar 15, 2009)

alertchief said:


> Isnt that why you have been a BM guy for years... They actually know what they are talking about. Its hard to believe the level of training at the rep level at SW has gotten to this point.


I trust my BM suppliers ability and knowledge with the products they sell. Problem is as I have said before that BM is becoming way to shall we say experimental with there product lines. The ultra spec 500 is a terrific genX paint but the trim paints leave much to be to be desired. Satin Impervo is still the best trim paint but I just can use it anymore for many different reasons. One of the main reasons I have backed of alkyds is the health implications. My sinuses cant take it.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

There were a ton of awesome alternatives to B.M. in northeast massachusetts about 6 years ago. But Ben moore has killed the competition, heck even California made a great interior trim paint in their 2010 line. 

I use to get awesome results with Pratt & lambert accolade in semigloss, there no where to be found anymore. Muralo's Ultra in semigloss, again missing in action. And even Pittsburgh manor's hall hall had an awesome semigloss that fooled every painter and designer I knew into thinking it was actually oil paint. I could care less about ben moore's acrylic version of their impervo, that's has always been junk.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

There were a ton of awesome alternatives to B.M. in northeast massachusetts about 6 years ago. But Ben moore has killed the competition, heck even California made a great interior trim paint in their 2010 line. 

I use to get awesome results with Pratt & lambert accolade in semigloss, there no where to be found anymore. Muralo's Ultra in semigloss, again missing in action. And even Pittsburgh manor's hall hall had an awesome semigloss that fooled every painter and designer I knew into thinking it was actually oil paint. I could care less about ben moore's acrylic version of their impervo, that's has always been junk.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Dan I am with you on the Satin Impervo latex. Not a fan personally but I do know guys that use it with great results. I don't think I would call it a "junk" product lol. I just don't care for it. I do like the faster cure time with it, and it dries really hard. I can get better results with Advance, but I know the slow recoat time keeps some guys from using it.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Brian339 said:


> The thing I find most disturbing is I was contacted by the SW rep and asked to try some paint on the house. In that conversation I told the rep I have been a BM painter for a few decades. I also mentioned the only paint I could see needing to upgrade would be trim. Not knowing anything about there products he recommended Cashmere and stated that it is there best trim paint and gave me a free gallon. I didnt know it was a wall paint until I posted here. So this leaves my confidence a little shakey with the knowledge in these folks. I plan on bringing it up with him. It will be interesting to hear what he has to say. This is a good forum and I continue to learn and develop in my quest to be a better tradesman.


The Pros know.Ask SW.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

alertchief said:


> Isnt that why you have been a BM guy for years... They actually know what they are talking about. Its hard to believe the level of training at the rep level at SW has gotten to this point.


 No offense but I have a hard time believing that reps or managers or whatever at paint stores totally know what there talking about.They generally pass on what they hear at promotions.For instance my paint store manager is repainting the interior of his house and he told me that he is really finding out about the products he has been selling for years.Not so impressed with some they push on the consumer.Hands on training or as" Woodland",hands in painting  is the only way to know and go.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

NCPaint1 said:


> Dan I am with you on the Satin Impervo latex. Not a fan personally but I do know guys that use it with great results. I don't think I would call it a "junk" product lol. I just don't care for it. I do like the faster cure time with it, and it dries really hard. I can get better results with Advance, but I know the slow recoat time keeps some guys from using it.


Maybe it's improved since last time I used it, but whenever I used it - it would show major brush lines. And no matter how you brushed it, thick or thin, or a half dozen different lines/brands of brushes - it always dripped in the finish. It was impossible to control. I even told the guy at the store that maybe it looks great sprayed, and he told me in response, "don't hold your breath". It dripped like 3x-4x worse than Advance does. And least with advance you can brush it real thin and it will still level out. 

For me there many other options that solved the problem perfectly with little to no difficulty. I've never heard anyone talking about how great California Interior 2010 semigloss was, but that product was perfect! Awesome hide and it literally had no brush marks - it looked awesome!


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## Toolnut (Nov 23, 2012)

mudbone said:


> No offense but I have a hard time believing that reps or managers or whatever at paint stores totally know what there talking about.They generally pass on what they hear at promotions.For instance my paint store manager is repainting the interior of his house and he told me that he is really finding out about the products he has been selling for years.Not so impressed with some they push on the consumer.Hands on training or as" Woodland",hands in painting  is the only way to know and go.


I think since they don't really do a lot of painting themselves they rely a lot on what people like you and I tell them. And of course promos from the co. and such.


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## cdaniels (Oct 20, 2012)

Toolnut said:


> I think since they don't really do a lot of painting themselves they rely a lot on what people like you and I tell them. And of course promos from the co. and such.


Guess I'm lucky....the manager at my local SW store is a former painter himself and still paints a little.He knows what he's talking about.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

What do you want an enamel for?

Cabinets, shelves, doors, structures that will receive traffic, you bet. 

I have no problem using a semi-gloss natura or other non-trim designated coating on windows that will not receive too much abuse.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

Brian, I'll probably give you a call anyways in a few days. But just curious - and I understand why you don't like certain products for production sake. But, how is that relevent to the old satin impervo? I could never get two coats of that stuff on trim in a single day. What product could do that?


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## Brian339 (Mar 15, 2009)

Dan 
Satin Impervo is a unique product that is now somewhat becoming obsolete. They really shouldnt be selling it in MA its ok in NH though.
It has nothing to do with two coats in a day because its not possible except under certain conditions.
I remember painting a huge piece of warm machinery at Merrimack College 20 years ago. It was pretty warm and dried up wonderfully. Like it was meant to be because I was able to double coat it that day. 
My quest for a sweet trim paint currently has nothing to do with two coats in a day. If I got a small job that needs two coats in a day I just go with Aquaglo. The results are most predictable.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

Brian339 said:


> Dan
> Satin Impervo is a unique product that is now somewhat becoming obsolete. They really shouldnt be selling it in MA its ok in NH though.
> It has nothing to do with two coats in a day because its not possible except under certain conditions.
> I remember painting a huge piece of warm machinery at Merrimack College 20 years ago. It was pretty warm and dried up wonderfully. Like it was meant to be because I was able to double coat it that day.
> My quest for a sweet trim paint currently has nothing to do with two coats in a day. If I got a small job that needs two coats in a day I just go with Aquaglo. The results are most predictable.


Brian - if 2 coats isn't that important, then what remaining issue do you have with a product like Muralo's Ultra semigloss?


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## Brian339 (Mar 15, 2009)

Not much really why?


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

Just wondering, just want to help you find a solution. Some guys I knew thought it was too "thin" even though it seemed thin in application, had great hide. I do know that if you have a certain paint that you have issues with, a simple change of brush can change your entire world. I was really frustrated brushing P&L Accolade back in '99 and getting horrible results with my purdy XL glide brush. It was $44/gallon back then and looking like utter crap - and even though aquaglo was much easier to work with never looked really pretty. So after a conversation with that guy who use to work with Ira that would smoke a pipe - I ended up buying a purdy pro-extra brush and suddenly brushing Accolade on trim became Nirvana.


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## Brian339 (Mar 15, 2009)

Yea thanks Dan I apreciate all that but I feel I am pretty up on all that. I am pretty set with my current systems and techniques. The point of this thread is stated in my original post.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

Let me know when you find a paint you like better than what your using, I am open to product changes as well. I've never like painting trim, I think the finish that Advance gives is every bit as good as the original satin impervo - but it's a real drag to brush, literally. And it's somewhat drippy, still stinks, and you can't double coat it either in a single day.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

I've wanted to give this trim paint a try for a while now http://www.c2paint.com/our-products/trim.php


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## Brian339 (Mar 15, 2009)

I dont know why but I have double coated dark colors successfully.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

plainpainter said:


> P&L Accolade back in '99 and getting horrible results with my purdy XL glide brush. It was $44/gallon back then
> .


Weird. I was getting it for $36/gal a couple yrs ago. Last time I used it. I had to three coat some brush work. I wasn't that pleased with hide, but it was a good finish.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

I had this one lady last summer where I painted all her kitchen and pantry trim using Advance. I was 150 yr. old home with all oil painted trim and she didn't want to pay for any sanding - And I remember all those homes with latex over old oil paint failures. I was able to paint her kitchen with Regal Matte Classic. But she chose a P&L dark green color to go over a deep existing red color in her pantry. Man it brought back memories. Double coating Accolade wall paint is as hard as it was back in the 90s. And I was told they 'dumbed' down their paint to target more homeowners. I've come to the conclusion that making money in painting and quality are two separate goals. If I had to continue painting, I'd probably just use aquaglo on trim and call it a day. I have hard enough time teaching myself how to handle such products as B.M. Advance, P&L Accolade, Muralo ultra - put those products in the hand of guys your trying to teach while they get paid on the job and it's a nightmare. 

Beautiful results on trim are achievable, but not profitable.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

TJ Paint said:


> Weird. I was getting it for $36/gal a couple yrs ago. Last time I used it. I had to three coat some brush work. I wasn't that pleased with hide, but it was a good finish.


 
S.W. bought them out in '95, but left them alone to keep operating as independent company for a bunch of years after that. But once they did start butting their noses into P&L's operations, they made them do cutbacks in materials, change to a plastic pour container and at the time, roughly '04-'05 was able to drop the price by over $10/gallon. 

But the original P&L quality of the 90s was priced at $40-$44/gallon back then.


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