# Gardz Alternatives??



## spektrum (Mar 11, 2010)

Hey all, 

I've read through many threads regarding priming after washing paste residue after wallpaper removal. I know many of you think draw-tite is the best followed by gardz. I am in Canada, Winnipeg Manitoba specifically and it is not available here. I know shieldz clear/pigmented white is along with coverstain/odorless oil. 

Would any of you say shieldz would work to seal in residue from experience or should I go the route of oil. I have used oil many times in past but would rather avoid fumes as HO in condo can't really air the place out here in winter and small space which is hard to get away from the smell.

Any advice on finding gardz in Canada or experiences with shieldz or other lower voc primer/sealers welcome.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

shieldz should not be used for anything. PERIOD. 

Unless they still produce the solvent based version for you guys.


If the paste is THOROUGHLY washed off, you can prime with anything. 

Are you preparing the wall for re-papering? In which case I would highly recommend a Canadian product Swing "Wallpaper Prep Coat"


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## spektrum (Mar 11, 2010)

I'll be prepping this area for paint. If you feel so strongly against shieldz I think I'll just avoid it. when you say you can prime with anything, I ran into a situation just last week I think it must have been clay adhesive added for extra tack around receptacles and frames that I could not wash off even after scrubbing with sos pads. I attempted to prime with pva and as soon as the roller hit it a second time backrolling it gelled up and looked bad. I stopped and scraped all those areas off as I went. I used oil in past but opted to try water based this go round as I scrubbed everywhere good with dif then twice with warm water. I gather those grill scrub pads you have posted about have more bite to wear through stuff faster. I floated areas I had to scrape and continued coating. Looked terrible wet very blotchy but dried great with even sheen. All that being said I really want to find a good water based sealer to avoid a replay of those issues since oil isn't an option really in this case for me.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

cover stain or this


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## ptbopainter (Sep 10, 2013)

daArch said:


> shieldz should not be used for anything. PERIOD.
> 
> Unless they still produce the solvent based version for you guys.
> 
> ...


What don't you like about Shieldz? I just used it a couple of months ago because it was opaque white and I needed to cover a dark green wall before wallpaper gets put on.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

ptbopainter said:


> What don't you like about Shieldz? I just used it a couple of months ago because it was opaque white and I needed to cover a dark green wall before wallpaper gets put on.


I've had failures with it, as have others. When I talked to one of the BS'ers at Z, he said I should have used two coats. 










I solved the problem by steering clear of it


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

spektrum said:


> I'll be prepping this area for paint. If you feel so strongly against shieldz I think I'll just avoid it. when you say you can prime with anything, I ran into a situation just last week I think it must have been clay adhesive added for extra tack around receptacles and frames that I could not wash off even after scrubbing with sos pads. I attempted to prime with pva and as soon as the roller hit it a second time backrolling it gelled up and looked bad. I stopped and scraped all those areas off as I went. I used oil in past but opted to try water based this go round as I scrubbed everywhere good with dif then twice with warm water. I gather those grill scrub pads you have posted about have more bite to wear through stuff faster. I floated areas I had to scrape and continued coating. Looked terrible wet very blotchy but dried great with even sheen. All that being said I really want to find a good water based sealer to avoid a replay of those issues since oil isn't an option really in this case for me.



Clay will wash off, although it takes more moisture than a clear. Sounds like a GLUE was used, people have been known to use VOV if they ever have the slightest bit of tack issues. 

On the other areas, are you waiting long enough for your stripping solution to re-wet and soften the paste? I've seen many folks get really frustrated with stripping because they spray and scrape, spray and scrape without allowing the stripper to do it's work. Timing has a lot to do to make stripping less onerous.


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## spektrum (Mar 11, 2010)

Other areas were thoroughly clean. I would wet down two walls twice before starting to scrape off backing and kEpt everything wet. It was that glue that was the issue. My supplier has found me an alternative problem surface sealer that is water based. I will update with results after this job so anyone else up here without gardz knows if something else works.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

spektrum said:


> Other areas were thoroughly clean. I would wet down two walls twice before starting to scrape off backing and kEpt everything wet. It was that glue that was the issue. My supplier has found me an alternative problem surface sealer that is water based. I will update with results after this job so anyone else up here without gardz knows if something else works.


 
see post #4


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

BTW, spektrum, wallpaper prep coats are not made to be a prep coat for paint.

Many primers/sealers can also be papered over, but I wouldn't paint over a wallpaper prep coat. Not based on scientific fact or experience, just a gut feeling from how it behaves.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

daArch said:


> BTW, spektrum, wallpaper prep coats are not made to be a prep coat for paint.
> 
> Many primers/sealers can also be papered over, but I wouldn't paint over a wallpaper prep coat. Not based on scientific fact or experience, just a gut feeling from how it behaves.


 
no way:no::no::no:


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## ttalbon (Aug 6, 2009)

This is from the Gardz technical data sheet.

Porous surfaces that have been sealed with Gardz are ready for finish coating or wallpapering after 3 hours.
Top coating / Wallpapering– When dry, Gardz may be top coated with any standard architectural water-based or solvent-based primer or topcoat paint. Gardz is compatible with all types of joint compounds and spackling pastes and any texture or popcorn finish may be applied over it. Although wallpaper may be installed directly over any surface that has been coated with Gardz, some types of wallpaper and translucent wallcoverings may require an additional coat of an opaque prime.

I frequently use it over new taped and filled drywall as a base coat for top coat finishes. IMO it does the job well


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Bill was referring to wall paper prep coats, not Gardz


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

ttalbon,

What Chris said.

But let me tell you about Gardz

Gardz was formulated as a . . . . 

well let me start over, Gardz was reverse engineered and then watered down from a product that was not ORIGINALLY formulated as a wallpaper prep coat. As a matter of fact Draw-tite (the original) wasn't even formulated originally as a drywall repair coating. It was for concrete (I can't remember as a bonding agent or some other purpose) The story goes that some painting type folks in Calif found that it was good as a drywall repair coating and some peperhangers realized it would penetrate and seal builders flat. And thus it morphed into a different purpose than what it was intended. Kinda like Viagra NOT originally formulated as a boner pill, that was a side affect that made it popular and thus a new marketing strategy. 

Many primers, sealers, and paints are suitable to hang paper on. Coatings SPECIFICALLY formulated as wallpaper prep coats have not been proved to be suitable to undercoat paints.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

From primers to penis enhancements...


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

TJ Paint said:


> From primers to penis enhancements...


Does'nt Gardz firm up torn drywall ?


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

daArch said:


> Does'nt Gardz firm up torn drywall ?


Touché!!

Bill, you always bring the clarity.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

spektrum said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I've read through many threads regarding priming after washing paste residue after wallpaper removal. I know many of you think draw-tite is the best followed by gardz. I am in Canada, Winnipeg Manitoba specifically and it is not available here. I know shieldz clear/pigmented white is along with coverstain/odorless oil.
> 
> ...


If not finding Gardz in Canada how about Kilz Klear as an alternative.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

mudbone said:


> If not finding Gardz in Canada how about Kilz Klear as an alternative.


 
do you have the dreaded home depot up there? they carry it in 5's


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## spektrum (Mar 11, 2010)

chrisn said:


> see post #4


I know oil Will work chrisn. See post#3 the point of the thread was finding a waterbase alternative. I don't need a 5er but I will have to check big orange if I have a large wallpaper removal job.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

spektrum said:


> I know oil Will work chrisn. See post#3 the point of the thread was finding a waterbase alternative. I don't need a 5er but I will have to check big orange if I have a large wallpaper removal job.


 
It lasts a long time


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