# Exterior paint



## Delekta (Mar 16, 2012)

Hello, everyone. 

I used to have a two guy company. My partner was a painter, so he would lead in the painting projects and I took care of drywall related projects. Well, the company is still alive but I am on my own now. We decided to pursue "solo careers", just like John and Paul. 
I have a chance to do an exterior painting project, and I want to get into painting more, but I don't have enough expertise in this area. So basically, I gotta paint wood fascia and soffit. The homeowner says he used to paint it with oil paint every 2 years. I took him 2 days to finish painting leisurely working. I am not really sure that it took only 2 years for paint to degrade so much. He says one coat will be enough. I don't think so, I think I'll spend a lot of time scraping and sanding, then priming and then painting. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm going to attach pics for clarity. From your experience what is the best working combination of primer/paint for this application? 
In terms of compensation I estimate this job at $1200 for labour. Is it competitive price? 
Thank you.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

How old is the home? How much experience do you have?


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

You going all the way around the house or just that front side?

I wouldn't do that for 1200. Tell him to do it himself for that price.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Looks like over spray around the brick.


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

Delekta said:


> The homeowner says he used to paint it with oil paint every 2 years. I took him 2 days to finish painting leisurely working.


I'm going to go ahead and guess the HO is full of sh!t. 

Most HO's are too scared to climb a 10 foot stepladder. You really think he's going to be on a 28' or 32' scraping and painting that? Yeah - don't think so. 

Also - it looks like it hasn't been painted in 10 years. Probably more. That is some seriously bad chipping/flaking going on. 



Delekta said:


> In terms of compensation I estimate this job at $1200 for labour. Is it competitive price?


Seriously?


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Delekta said:


> Hello, everyone.
> 
> I used to have a two guy company. My partner was a painter, so he would lead in the painting projects and I took care of drywall related projects. Well, the company is still alive but I am on my own now. We decided to pursue "solo careers", just like John and Paul.
> I have a chance to do an exterior painting project, and I want to get into painting more, but I don't have enough expertise in this area. So basically, I gotta paint wood fascia and soffit. The homeowner says he used to paint it with oil paint every 2 years. I took him 2 days to finish painting leisurely working. I am not really sure that it took only 2 years for paint to degrade so much. He says one coat will be enough. I don't think so, I think I'll spend a lot of time scraping and sanding, then priming and then painting. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm going to attach pics for clarity. From your experience what is the best working combination of primer/paint for this application?
> ...


For the second time this week I am speechless.:whistling2:


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## scottjr (Jan 14, 2012)

Delekta said:


> Hello, everyone.
> 
> I used to have a two guy company. My partner was a painter, so he would lead in the painting projects and I took care of drywall related projects. Well, the company is still alive but I am on my own now. We decided to pursue "solo careers", just like John and Paul.
> I have a chance to do an exterior painting project, and I want to get into painting more, but I don't have enough expertise in this area. So basically, I gotta paint wood fascia and soffit. The homeowner says he used to paint it with oil paint every 2 years. I took him 2 days to finish painting leisurely working. I am not really sure that it took only 2 years for paint to degrade so much. He says one coat will be enough. I don't think so, I think I'll spend a lot of time scraping and sanding, then priming and then painting. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm going to attach pics for clarity. From your experience what is the best working combination of primer/paint for this application?
> ...


IMO you aren't qualified to bid this job. If you are unsure about what needs to be done (and you want to be a painter) then I would try to get a job for another painter before tackling a job on your own.


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## STAR (Nov 26, 2010)

scottjr said:


> IMO you aren't qualified to bid this job. If you are unsure about what needs to be done (and you want to be a painter) then I would try to get a job for another painter before tackling a job on your own.


Agreed! This is a difficult job and dangerous if your aren't comfortable working at those heights.


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## prototype66 (Mar 13, 2008)

That looks like the original builders finish from the 30s or 40s. No way that was painted repeatedly like the HO says. Avoid this project if you are not sure of it. There is more prep than that! You will lose your shirt!


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## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

I think you should do it for 1200.00 and run with your windfall of profit.


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## Delekta (Mar 16, 2012)

Workaholic said:


> How old is the home? How much experience do you have?


The house is over 100 years old. I suspect the wood is original. I don't have much experience in exterior painting if this is what you mean, but I subbed for a painting contractor who is mostly in apartments repaint. If I wanted to make money that would make any sense, I had to be reeeeally fast. Didn't always happen, though.:no:



> You going all the way around the house or just that front side?


all the way around. I just couldn't take picture of the other side, neighbouring house was too close.



> I'm going to go ahead and guess the HO is full of sh!t


He's an older gentleman and he was older gentleman 10 years ago. But he says now he gets dizzy when he gets on the ladder that high. Couple years ago he was ok to climb. That has doubted me--the condition of the paint makes me think it was painted when he bought the house, 60 years ago. 



> IMO you aren't qualified to bid this job.


 I don't think I was qualified when for the first time I drywalled, taped and mudded a 2 floor addition for my friend. However, they live now for 4 years in the house that I drywalled and painted and I got to do smth else for them. Now I know how long it will take me to drywall and tape, I know how much materials I need and the profit I'll get. I know how long it will take me to paint x-bedroom apartment and how much I should charge. But yes, in this particular case, I'm not proficient. 

There are many details in any painting project to give specific guidelines. I know general procedure, I was just asking to share experience and maybe help with pricing (which really depends on experience).

I filter what the HO says, you think why he mentioned 2 days? Oh, it should take you couple days, so here are your 400 bucks, enjoy! 
36 feet is not a joke... working under power line...
I just want to build my portfolio.


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## scottjr (Jan 14, 2012)

Since you admit you are not experienced, I would not bid this job. You will lose money IMO. If you want to proceed, I would do a thorough inspection of the work, see how long it would take, add in your materials, what you want to make per day, and add 25% on the top of said number.


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

Delekta said:


> Hello, everyone.
> 
> I used to have a two guy company. My partner was a painter, so he would lead in the painting projects and I took care of drywall related projects. Well, the company is still alive but I am on my own now. We decided to pursue "solo careers", just like John and Paul.
> I have a chance to do an exterior painting project, and I want to get into painting more, but I don't have enough expertise in this area. So basically, I gotta paint wood fascia and soffit. The homeowner says he used to paint it with oil paint every 2 years. I took him 2 days to finish painting leisurely working. I am not really sure that it took only 2 years for paint to degrade so much. He says one coat will be enough. I don't think so, I think I'll spend a lot of time scraping and sanding, then priming and then painting. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm going to attach pics for clarity. From your experience what is the best working combination of primer/paint for this application?
> ...


Delekta,

You should listen to all the responses. They are trying to help you. This is wrong on so many levels. The homeowner is full of sh!t & you are obviously not qualified to tackle this. There is nothing wrong with a handy, capable drywall mechanic branching out into paint work, but this is the wrong place to start. There is some serious prep needed here. Also, there is most likely lead paint involved & if you are not EPA certified to test it, it is against the law for you to even attempt it. You also need to know what you are doing with ladders on a project like that. There is potential for serious injury if you screw up. Be safe and smart. Tackle something less involved and dangerous to get started. We can be sarcastic and a little brutal here at times here, but we mean well.


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## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

Build your portfolio on projects that you know how to do. 1200.00 bucks for that job is a complete joke and just plain ass dumb. Piece of advice, every foot above 8 ft increases the price due to the extra time it takes to accomplish a task. At the hieght of the job you are looking at your price should be at least tripled what a house with 10 overhang would be. Your client may be old but he obviously is not dumbass if he is talking you into doing that for 1200.00.


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## Susan (Nov 29, 2011)

"No, Thank You" is also an appropriate response. Don't ever let someone dictate what your time is worth, especially if you're just recently branching off onto your own. You'll never pay bills that way. I don't tell my mechanic what he's going to charge when he repairs my vehicle because I have no frame of reference.

You can build your portfolio in many ways. Losing your shirt and hauling a 40' around is one way; but there are much easier options.

Hand the homeowner a RRP pamphlet, or not, but walk away.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

The question was "is 1,200 dollars a competitive price?" my answer is " yes that is a very competitive price-extremely competitive actually" Enjoy.


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## Delekta (Mar 16, 2012)

Now we're talking! Lead paint! I'd never think of it. That's why I asked of the pro forum. I was monitoring the PT for a while, trying to get some wisdom, no irony here--painting is much more than slapping some gooey stuff on the wall. 

Yes I can get a pro to paint. I met a painter a week ago when I taped addition and a basement. His jobs are mostly exterior. The thing is, HO knows my partner and now there will be questions if I appear with somebody else, and you know, "how come you broke up" etc, etc, and they're going to spread the rumors in the community... i hate it.



> You should listen to all the responses.


I do listen and I appreciate that people take their time to respond. 

Honestly, I'm not very exited about painting that house: HO wants it cheaper, just a coat of paint, but it will flake after couple good rains. And everyone will ask: "Didn't you have your house painted recently? How come it looks so bad? What idiot painted this?" I'm going to approach him and tell him what he should expect.


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## boman47k (May 10, 2008)

Someone is going to spend some time on that!

I know next to nothing about pricing something like that, but I was shaking my head while reading this from the "1200' on.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

$ 1200 :lol:


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## Delekta (Mar 16, 2012)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> $ 1200 :lol:


So far no one gave a number. Watching your smiles is a big help, aha.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Looks to me like its got lead written all over it!Not worth the hassle.:no:


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## TERRY365PAINTER (Jul 26, 2009)

1200 omg maybe 8000 if there's LBP omg that would be a nightmare . !!!


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## briancreary (Oct 12, 2010)

Delekta said:


> Hello, everyone.
> 
> I used to have a two guy company. My partner was a painter, so he would lead in the painting projects and I took care of drywall related projects. Well, the company is still alive but I am on my own now. We decided to pursue "solo careers", just like John and Paul.
> I have a chance to do an exterior painting project, and I want to get into painting more, but I don't have enough expertise in this area. So basically, I gotta paint wood fascia and soffit. The homeowner says he used to paint it with oil paint every 2 years. I took him 2 days to finish painting leisurely working. I am not really sure that it took only 2 years for paint to degrade so much. He says one coat will be enough. I don't think so, I think I'll spend a lot of time scraping and sanding, then priming and then painting. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm going to attach pics for clarity. From your experience what is the best working combination of primer/paint for this application?
> ...


I don't want to sound rude, because I'm truly not trying to be; but, you can get that price for painting trim on a house that's less than 10 years old and you can get those jobs all day long. Powerwash, paint and paid. Why kill yourself to learn on a home that needs expert attention. 

I do a lot of lead work and spend hours with my HEPA vac...this house needs some work. And I know this guys says "2 days of leisure work," but what he means is "since I'm paying for it I'm going to get you to do all the stuff I don't want to." He will seem cool at first, but trust me, every paint chip in his azalias, every strange peeling area that isn't quite perfect, every nook and cranny you can't quite get to, he will make your problem. He will also have you believing that "when he did it, it looked like glass and he's not even a professional painter." Know this: he did not do that good a job and you are getting set up. If you want to learn exterior painting, go flier a newer subdivision, promise to power wash, and promise 2-coats with the customer choosing the paint as a seperate material cost and you'll not only learn, but you also will have the added advantage of not going bankrupt.


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## scottjr (Jan 14, 2012)

Delekta said:


> So far no one gave a number. Watching your smiles is a big help, aha.


With the vast number of pros on here giving you the advice to steer clear of this job, why are you still considering it?

My advice to you is:
If you want to become a professional painter, get a job working for one. After you apprentice for someone, and they feel that you are ready, then take the leap. I can not stress enough that this has failure written all over it.


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## Delekta (Mar 16, 2012)

> 1200 omg maybe 8000 if there's LBP


Thanks. They wouldn't pay that much. 
HO wanted me basically to paint over the old paint. There was no talk about prepping. I guess that was what he did himself where he could reach. It looked like alligator skin. 



> He will also have you believing that "when he did it, it looked like glass and he's not even a professional painter."


This crossed my mind, believe it or not. 
They had somebody for quotes, my wife talked to his wife while I was outside. I don't blame them. They were trying to get better deal. 


> why are you still considering it?


I'm not. I called the painter I met two weeks ago, he painted the house I taped. Just offered him to take a look. He'll go there on Tues. 

If I did it I would go this way (for the right money, of course):
Power wash
If needed, heat and scrape
Sand with power tools (most likely to bare wood in 80%)
Fill the holes with someth like Dap plastic wood. (or/and epoxy)
Seal? (somebody was inquiring on PT if it's good idea to use water repellent sealer)
Primer? (that's where I would rely on my partner)
Paint? (same as above).


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

Delekta said:


> If I did it I would go this way (for the right money, of course):
> Power wash
> If needed, heat and scrape
> Sand with power tools (most likely to bare wood in 80%)
> ...


If the home was built prior to 1978 it MUST be tested for lead based paint before any prep work(scraping,sanding etc.) can be accomplished by an RRP certified contractor. The fines for not following this protocol start in excess of $37,000. If lead based paint is present the work can only be performed by a RRP certified contractor and any power sanding must be accomplished with HEPA vac attached sanders. The "heat" is a big EPA no no when it comes to lead based paint, not to mention the insurance liability for potential disaster. This project is an example of a "little knowledge can really be a dangerous thing".


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

CliffK said:


> If the home was built prior to 1978 it MUST be tested for lead based paint before any prep work(scraping,sanding etc.) can be accomplished by an RRP certified contractor. The fines for not following this protocol start in excess of $37,000. If lead based paint is present the work can only be performed by a RRP certified contractor and any power sanding must be accomplished with FESTOOL HEPA vac attached sanders. The "heat" is a big EPA no no when it comes to lead based paint, not to mention the insurance liability for potential disaster. This project is an example of a "little knowledge can really be a dangerous thing".


....


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

scottjr said:


> With the vast number of pros on here giving you the advice to steer clear of this job, why are you still considering it?
> 
> My advice to you is:
> If you want to become a professional painter, get a job working for one. After you apprentice for someone, and they feel that you are ready, then take the leap. I can not stress enough that this has failure written all over it.


Paint failure=Painter failure!


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

_Last edited by ReNt A PaInTeR; Today at 09:20 AM.. Reason: Festool advertisement was missing_

lol


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## mpminter (Mar 21, 2011)

CliffK said:


> The "heat" is a big EPA no no when it comes to lead based paint


My understanding was that heat is not disallowed under RRP regs, but the temperature must be kept below a specified threshold (1000 degrees I believe). No more blow torches but you can still use a heat gun if it has some sort of temperature control/governor.


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## briancreary (Oct 12, 2010)

mpminter said:


> My understanding was that heat is not disallowed under RRP regs, but the temperature must be kept below a specified threshold (1000 degrees I believe). No more blow torches but you can still use a heat gun if it has some sort of temperature control/governor.


 
Lead can atomize at 800 degrees. Also, powerwashing is also a no, no unless you can prove that you captured all the paint chips and let's be serious, who can do that?


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Let the other painter handle it and that means the pricing too. This house needs to be tested for lead and the RRP laws will need to be followed to be compliant. 

To not have more paint failure in the future this job requires a fair amount of work and if you let the customer dictate the cost of the job when they clearly do not seem to understand the level of labor you will lose every time. 

Good luck.


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## dean king (Mar 19, 2012)

I have just read this thread and i am going to have to check out 
some of your laws an stuff.

Lead Paint? gives you a lovely tast in the mouth when your
power sanding it, i eat it for breakfast, with sugar. 

The only time lead paint gets ya, is when your scrping it an 
get a tiny chip flick up into your eye. Now that flippin hurts!

Me  loft


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## ROOMINADAY (Mar 20, 2009)

Run far and fast from this one. You need more than one guy on this and it would take us well over a week with our own staging (We are slow at heights, bid stuff like this high and don't care anymore about getting every bid), not including weather delays, rotten wood, wasps nests, racoons, or what extras are involved with RRP... such as collecting all your paint chips, dust and pressure washer water run off. RRP looks like a ton of fun in +90 in a full mask and HAZMAT suit! 

Go grab some nice referral worthy interior work, pass out some fliers pick up a few decks and get your RRP certification as a start to moving forward with your career. Next summer you may be fortunate enough to meet the poor bugger who actually took it on and learn you made a great business decision to walk away. Every job we turn down results in the phone ringing the next day for 3 more we want to do.


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## Delekta (Mar 16, 2012)

> If the home was built prior to 1978 it MUST be tested for lead based paint before any prep work(scraping,sanding etc.) can be accomplished by an RRP certified contractor.





> EPA


 What does it stand for? Environmental Protection Agency? So the Canadian equivalent would be Environment Canada. Shoot, I forgot to mention my location, it's Ontario, Canada (should update my info).

So the objective with lead paint is not to get it airborne, isn't it? I did some research and no sanders will remove 100% of dust, some dust will still be left on the surface. But I guess it's not important as long as the dust doesn't go in the air.



> powerwashing is also a no


 ok, so what is the right way? I'm just curious.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Delekta said:


> What does it stand for? Environmental Protection Agency? So the Canadian equivalent would be Environment Canada. Shoot, I forgot to mention my location, it's Ontario, Canada (should update my info).
> 
> So the objective with lead paint is not to get it airborne, isn't it? I did some research and no sanders will remove 100% of dust, some dust will still be left on the surface. But I guess it's not important as long as the dust doesn't go in the air.
> 
> ok, so what is the right way? I'm just curious.


RRP is an American law you will want to check with the Canadian laws but the fact that you need to ask all these things tell me that you need to let someone else take this project.


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

You are Canadian?...RRP doesn't apply.

Still, good to know the precautions and learn what they are doing stateside.....Canadian lead paint is same same to American lead paint. 

Listen to that Texan.....$8000 is not whack-o.


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## propainterJ (Jan 31, 2011)

I wouldnt touch that thing with a 10 foot pole if I were you.

1200? is wacko,coockoo,nuts,insane.

8000 is a better start,but probably not enough.

Just say no,friend


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## ColorQuest (Mar 19, 2012)

$1200, wow I know the economy is slow but $3.25 an hour ouch. Makes the $99.00 a room guy highly paid.


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## Delekta (Mar 16, 2012)

ColorQuest said:


> $1200, wow I know the economy is slow but $3.25 an hour ouch. Makes the $99.00 a room guy highly paid.


So it makes 369 hours, 46 days (8 hour day), am I correct? How long would it take for a crew of 2 pro painters? Appx, of course.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

Delekta said:


> So it makes 369 hours, 46 days (8 hour day), am I correct? How long would it take for a crew of 2 pro painters? Appx, of course.


Id feel alright at ten man days. Two guys for a week.


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## scottjr (Jan 14, 2012)

Delekta said:


> So it makes 369 hours, 46 days (8 hour day), am I correct? How long would it take for a crew of 2 pro painters? Appx, of course.


Once again, my advice is too steer clear. Its obvious you dont know the extent of this job. The best thing you can do is take everyone's advice, forget about this job, and walk away while you're still ahead.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

scottjr said:


> Once again, my advice is too steer clear. Its obvious you dont know the extent of this job. The best thing you can do is take everyone's advice, forget about this job, and walk away while you're still ahead.


Look at the first pic. Is that a house on the right side? O.M.G. Its like three feet away! No chance off falling backwards onthat side. LOL. The ladder will be straight up but if it started goin backwards you could bump yourself back to the wall with your butt. LOL.


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## scottjr (Jan 14, 2012)

Oden said:


> Look at the first pic. Is that a house on the right side? O.M.G. Its like three feet away! No chance off falling backwards onthat side. LOL. The ladder will be straight up but if it started goin backwards you could bump yourself back to the wall with your butt. LOL.


Ya I'm sure the old man got up there to paint every 2 years. I wish I had a pic of him painting that side. Lol


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## DrSmeller (Mar 24, 2012)

Some thoughts - it's a difficult job lead based paint aside. The house next door is 3 ft away, you'll probably have to rent staging for that. The customer is trying to take advantage of you. Although he is minimizing the job now, that won't be the case once you get into it. You would make more money with much less hassle working for a painting contractor @ $8/hr. Smaller jobs are your friend. Learn to say no. BTW, two leisure days - ridiculous. You'll learn to avoid customers like this. Big red flag.


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## Delekta (Mar 16, 2012)

> Smaller jobs are your friend.


 Actually, looks like I'm going to have one, also an exterior, but not that high ^. If you, guys/gals, don't mind, I'm going to ask you in this thread for some tips in prepping and material pick (but I need someth specific to Canadian market).


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## Delekta (Mar 16, 2012)

Ok, now I have something my size. 

The customer wants to keep the colours. The customer is planning to sell the house in few years, but I have to make sure the paint stays there even when they move out (if they move out).
There is a spot that troubles me--the power line. It's really close to gutters and I need to get behind it. Do you think Hydro company can switch it off for a while?

The house is appx 50 x 20 and I need to paint the eaves. They are galvanized steel as well as 7 awnings that I have to paint. Eaves are rusted through in one spot and the spikes that hold them are rusty as well. That bothers me. What should I do with rust?

So I'm painting


Front porch: columns, fascia, railings, ceiling (basically everything white), gutters. (I don't do the deck).
Front gable including that little window.
Fascia all around the house (50ftx20ft). That's where the hydro line is coming.
Eavestrough (again, approximately 50x20. Actually, is there a point to paint them, maybe they should be replace with seamless aluminum?)
Awnings 7 pieces (don't have dimensions).
What would you charge for labour? I'm a little concern by the fact that the home owner mentioned that she supplies paint. Should I insist on supplying paint or recommend but leave it up to her? And another question: how long should it take for 1 guy?


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

That home is a train wreck.


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## ParadoxPainter (Apr 9, 2012)

Csheils said:


> "No, Thank You" is also an appropriate response. Don't ever let someone dictate what your time is worth, especially if you're just recently branching off onto your own. You'll never pay bills that way. I don't tell my mechanic what he's going to charge when he repairs my vehicle because I have no frame of reference.
> 
> You can build your portfolio in many ways. Losing your shirt and hauling a 40' around is one way; but there are much easier options.
> 
> Hand the homeowner a RRP pamphlet, or not, but walk away.


Here is a link you should check out before scraping anything you think is "old paint". http://www.epa.gov/lead/pubs/renovation.htm


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## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

That house is a total restoration to do it right. I would put money that there is lead without even testing..

You wont get anyone to give you a number on here. My advice to you since you said your old partner was the painter..go work for one if you want to get into it. Not everyone can paint, especially doing it right. 

If you dont even know how long it is going to take..you dont know what your doing. And that timeframe will vary for everyone, we all have different production rates/ methods of getting a job done.


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