# A Painting Robot



## paintamtic (Mar 30, 2015)

I work for a start-up developing a robot that will paint the walls. The idea is the robot would do the rolling so the painter can focus on the cut-ins. We're trying to get an idea of market demand for such a product. Would this be of interest to anyone here?


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

How about an estimating / sales robot to go sell the work?


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

Depends. Would this robot take switch plates off, or just paint around em? I just don't want any of those hacky robots.


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## GR8painter (Dec 18, 2014)

I really can't see that working without massive programming specific to each space, and it would need the ability to move around occupied spaces. Otherwise, maybe more applicable for new construction, but thats what spraying is for. Some things that robots just can't realistically do without creating other negatives.
if it was tweaked, easy to program/use, worked flawlessly, and came in under $1000, I'd probably look into it. 
does it have a bottle opener? 
P.s. I don't think your launch page is working correctly, I put my email in and hit go...but it doesn't do anything.


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## paintamtic (Mar 30, 2015)

It would paint around the switch plates.



stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> Depends. Would this robot take switch plates off, or just paint around em? I just don't want any of those hacky robots.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Obviously the painting robot can't mask a floor. If all it does it roll, then I would think its practical usage would be very limited, perhaps to large commercial spaces. Plus what Damon said. I'd probably still buy one though.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

paintamtic said:


> It would paint around the switch plates.


 sorry, that's a deal breaker. No thanks!!


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## Gracobucks (May 29, 2011)

why does the painter have a tray if the robot does the rolling?

Just wondering


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

It isn't April 1st for a few days yet!

Well first, from the looks of that photo, you need to develop a robot that puts down drops.


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## Gracobucks (May 29, 2011)

Every paint rolls out different and every surface takes the paint different. How will it know how thick its applying the paint and how far to stretch it? How does it sense light switches, ceiling, floor, heater controls, etc and avoid hitting them with paint? How does it apply the paint to the roller? How does it drive around? How does it sense objects/people on the floor and avoid driving over them? How heavy is it, can someone lift it up stairs to get on the job? How does it turn? Will the tires leave marks on a finished floor?

Sorry bud, I don't see this working or if you get it working it's going to cost $50k


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## paintamtic (Mar 30, 2015)

You can set the number of coats and pressure to apply on the robot. It has sensors for detecting any obstacles on the wall such as light switches, thermostats etc and is intelligent enough to avoid painting over them. It is relatively portable for transport. It doesn't drive around the room...you point it at the wall you want to paint and it'll paint that wall only. To paint another wall you point it at the other wall and repeat. We don't know the final price yet but expect it to be under 10k.



Gracobucks said:


> Every paint rolls out different and every surface takes the paint different. How will it know how thick its applying the paint and how far to stretch it? How does it sense light switches, ceiling, floor, heater controls, etc and avoid hitting them with paint? How does it apply the paint to the roller? How does it drive around? How does it sense objects/people on the floor and avoid driving over them? How heavy is it, can someone lift it up stairs to get on the job? How does it turn? Will the tires leave marks on a finished floor?
> 
> Sorry bud, I don't see this working or if you get it working it's going to cost $50k


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## Gracobucks (May 29, 2011)

paintamtic said:


> You can set the number of coats and pressure to apply on the robot. It has sensors for detecting any obstacles on the wall such as light switches, thermostats etc and is intelligent enough to avoid painting over them. It is relatively portable for transport. It doesn't drive around the room...you point it at the wall you want to paint and it'll paint that wall only. To paint another wall you point it at the other wall and repeat. We don't know the final price yet but expect it to be under 10k.



How fast does it paint a wall 8' high and 20' long? would you need a painter/helper sitting and watching it to move it from wall to wall?


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## paintamtic (Mar 30, 2015)

It currently works at about half the speed of a human, although this may improve with time. Once it's done it beeps to let you know it's ready to be pointed at another wall.



Gracobucks said:


> How fast does it paint a wall 8' high and 20' long? would you need a painter/helper sitting and watching it to move it from wall to wall?


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

paintamtic said:


> It currently works at about half the speed of a human, although this may improve with time. Once it's done it beeps to let you know it's ready to be pointed at another wall.


Well, that being the case, how do you realistically expect it to be purchased by those concerned with production rates?


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## Gracobucks (May 29, 2011)

How long does it take to set it up on a wall once its done one? Does it need to to a precise distance to the wall? How high of a wall can it roll? does it paint ceilings?


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## paintamtic (Mar 30, 2015)

It just needs to be pointed at the wall about 1 foot away. It scans the wall ahead, fine tunes its position and gets painting. The current version can do walls up to 9 feet. No ceilings.



Gracobucks said:


> How long does it take to set it up on a wall once its done one? Does it need to to a precise distance to the wall? How high of a wall can it roll? does it paint ceilings?


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## GR8painter (Dec 18, 2014)

Any youtube vids to offer of your magic robot in action, really skeptical of the capabilities stated here.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

paintamtic said:


> It currently works at about half the speed of a human, although this may improve with time. Once it's done it beeps to let you know it's ready to be pointed at another wall.



Among other potential issues, I see the speed as your largest hurdle. If I wanted to pay $10k to find a painter who could work at half my speed...


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## Painter-Aaron (Jan 17, 2013)

Let's get people out of work so robots can do it no thanks.


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## paintamtic (Mar 30, 2015)

This is no different than using a power tool that improves your efficiency.



Painter-Aaron said:


> Let's get people out of work so robots can do it no thanks.


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## GR8painter (Dec 18, 2014)

So far this is all talk and a digital rendering, anything more besides a request for our email address


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

lots of discussion on PT about hatbanding, looks like the robot would cause quite a wide one. Any thoughts about that ?

How long does it take to program it for the room and to set it up and to position it for each wall. IOW, have you run comparisons on the TOTAL amount of time needed for human to interface WITH the robot vs the time it would take a human to roll out the room?

I see no electrical cord, so I assume it is battery operated? How many hours on a charge ? Also assume the roller is "power fed", what's the capacity of it's reservoir?


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

I think most of us here would consider this a solution in search of a problem. Still, if it was developed to cover large commercial areas, such as has been mentioned, or possibly even some NC situations, maybe it would work out. However, I just don't see it working for residential repaints.


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## GR8painter (Dec 18, 2014)

Headline: robot malfunctions, rolls painter to death.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Damn even the robot wants the gravy job lol.


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)




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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

You should focus on an RRP robot that safely preps lead.


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## paintamtic (Mar 30, 2015)

That's an interesting suggestion. Overall, from the feedback it seems a painting robot is not something of much use to you all. Any other suggestions on something you DO need that could be automated?



ExcelPaintingCo said:


> You should focus on an RRP robot that safely preps lead.


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## GR8painter (Dec 18, 2014)

Jeesh, you bailed on that one pretty quick, so you really had no working prototype now, did you. This isn't really a good place to throw around flukey ideas that have no basis in reality. You're just wasting our time. Why don't you invent a robot capable of giving you a good idea on your own. Like kevin says on shark tank " you're dead to me".


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

I think we were being punked!


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## GR8painter (Dec 18, 2014)

Doh!


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## roygones (Apr 19, 2011)

A robot painter? Reeeally? Come on, people. Maybe it can paint behind the robot carpenter and the robot taper that got everything just so. I mean, really?


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## robladd (Nov 22, 2010)

I think a Magic Paint Bomb would be more like it. Put it in the middle of the room set it off and in 5 minutes come back and it's painted. 

I would like 2 cases compt for demo.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

robot painter


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

paintamtic said:


> I work for a start-up developing a robot that will paint the walls. The idea is the robot would do the rolling so the painter can focus on the cut-ins. We're trying to get an idea of market demand for such a product. Would this be of interest to anyone here?
> 
> If you'd like to sign up for our mailing list, you can do so at www.paintmatic.com


does it arrive at work on time in a driverless car?


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Can it line up the screws on the switch plates properly? Can it detect ammonia odors?


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

I do find the progression of feedback interesting, from tempered consideration and reasonable feedback to total ridicule.

Maybe we need a robot screening of PT OP's :whistling2:


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

What's next, cars that parallel park themselves?


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## paintamtic (Mar 30, 2015)

Yes that is unfortunate. We were looking for constructive criticism but this is usually the way things are online. Surprisingly all our face to face surveys were overwhelmingly positive so perhaps on-line surveys aren't representative of the market.



daArch said:


> I do find the progression of feedback interesting, from tempered consideration and reasonable feedback to total ridicule.
> 
> Maybe we need a robot screening of PT OP's :whistling2:


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

paintamtic said:


> Yes that is unfortunate. We were looking for constructive criticism but this is usually the way things are online. Surprisingly all our face to face surveys were overwhelmingly positive so perhaps on-line surveys aren't representative of the market.




That's exactly what Pontiac said when they built the Aztec. "Everyone at the car shows loved it."


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## Painter-Aaron (Jan 17, 2013)

Repaint Florida said:


> does it arrive at work on time in a driverless car?


To make it a more realistic painter it takes the bus to work


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I think digitally operated painting equipment, or DOPE, is the future. But I think the equipment concept should begin with spraying since the kinetic energy required is a lot less than rolling. 

I also think a portable grid of some sort would have to be constructed in front of a wall in order to provide a programmable map a DOPE would need for the variations it will encounter. Fixed lasers, can determine target parameters.

Basically, it would be a large vertical printer with guide lines and multiple spray guns.


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## paintamtic (Mar 30, 2015)

Someone tried to do this a while ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Lt2Q66R-JY



CApainter said:


> I think digitally operated painting equipment, or DOPE, is the future. But I think the equipment concept should begin with spraying since the kinetic energy required is a lot less than rolling.
> 
> I also think a portable grid of some sort would have to be constructed in front of a wall in order to provide a programmable map a DOPE would need for the variations it will encounter. Fixed lasers, can determine target parameters.
> 
> Basically, it would be a large vertical printer with guide lines and multiple spray guns.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

It seems to me, if you had something very portable , like a 7'x 4' aluminum coat rack with a guide system built in, it could act as the targeting frame work for the spray gun. Simply line it up parallel to the wall at a specified distance and away it goes. It could even have the speed and distanced programmed into the wheel drive.

The frame could be adaptable to a Graco spray unit that would offer a more flexible hose assembly that could sustain 2000 psi and not jerk the frame around as it moves along the wall. This can really be done. 

As far as the guide design, a number of gears and rotation devices will be a challenge to coordinate. If all you need to do is sell the programmable frame and not the spray equipment, you could probably sell it for around $8,000.00.

This would be more of a novelty at first, but it just may draw customer interest until it actually develops into production grade equipment.


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## paintamtic (Mar 30, 2015)

Yes a vertical sliding system is an option we've gone back and forth over. It's much more compact than an arm type design and is easier to build and program. We've been at it for over a year now and it's a very challenging project. But you're from the Bay Area so it's no surprise you can see where the tech will go in a few years.



CApainter said:


> It seems to me, if you had something very portable , like a 7'x 4' aluminum coat rack with a guide system built in, it could act as the targeting frame work for the spray gun. Simply line it up parallel to the wall at a specified distance and away it goes. It could even have the speed and distanced programmed into the wheel drive.
> 
> The frame could be adaptable to a Graco spray unit that would offer a more flexible hose assembly that could sustain 2000 psi and not jerk the frame around as it moves along the wall. This can really be done.
> 
> ...


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

paintamtic said:


> Yes a vertical sliding system is an option we've gone back and forth over. It's much more compact than an arm type design and is easier to build and program. We've been at it for over a year now and it's a very challenging project. But you're from the Bay Area so it's no surprise you can see where the tech will go in a few years.


I know nothing about computer programming or robotics. But, I do believe that out of all the building trades, painting is the best positioned to be automated.

The dynamics of large flat areas requiring a liquid coating, lends itself to computer controlled automation. 

Just do me a favor, if you choose to use the term DOPE (Digitally Operated Painting Equipment) throw some credit my way.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

The auto industry has been able to apply this in a predictive and controlled environment. And although the building and painting industry couldn't depend solely on DOPE, it could certainly augment the painting process by performing the more menial or riskier tasks, like coating applications in dangerous atmospheric conditions.


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## paintamtic (Mar 30, 2015)

You're right. A robot doing paint jobs is not a new concept. It just hasn't been cost effective to do it for small scale office or residential applications until recently. With the cost of sensors, motors and overall development dropping, it's reaching an inflection point where it becomes economically viable. 



CApainter said:


> The auto industry has been able to apply this in a predictive and controlled environment. And although the building and painting industry couldn't depend solely on DOPE, it could certainly augment the painting process by performing the more menial or riskier tasks, like coating applications in dangerous atmospheric conditions.


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## GR8painter (Dec 18, 2014)

That vid should have been first post, would have kept the thread seriius to start. Def see huge potential, industrial, commercial, NC. Def not occupied repaints. The roller application I see as much more complex. Minus repaints, I'd say you'd be hugely successful in the other markets, of course final product and pricing would factor in big. Good luck.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Actually, considering how a printer works, including my Gerber vinyl cutter, a single mast system with a belt and pulley, or wheel guided control, might not only provide the ability to be more portable, with less components, but also allow the equipment to be extended to various length. It would also include an outrigger with a fixed wheel.


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## D&K Custom (Oct 10, 2014)

By the time I get done programming the robot, I could have the room painted. No thanks. I could only see the look on a customers face when I start setting up a "robot" to paint their beautiful home. I just can't get behind this idea for a residential setting.


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## D&K Custom (Oct 10, 2014)

I do have a sweet concept for painting large scale buildings. We should do lunch haha.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

D&K Custom said:


> By the time I get done programming the robot, I could have the room painted. No thanks. I could only see the look on a customers face when I start setting up a "robot" to paint their beautiful home. I just can't get behind this idea for a residential setting.


I don't think robots can necessarily take the place of painters, or even be practical for most painting situations. However, there are many architectural configurations that would accept an automated piece of equipment for a coating application. Large and high walls with no obstructions or multi level building with long similar hallways. 

Another, benefit of computer operated painting equipment (COPE) is the ability to operate from a remote location. Imagine having a beer at home while spraying out seven floors of a newly constructed high rise with only one man monitoring everything at the job site.


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

paintamtic said:


> Yes that is unfortunate. We were looking for constructive criticism but this is usually the way things are online. Surprisingly all our face to face surveys were overwhelmingly positive so perhaps on-line surveys aren't representative of the market.


Who were your "face-to-face surveys" done with? Homeowners? Contractors? I can't see many painters on board with something that would or could put them out of a job.

And thankfully you obviously aren't new to the whole internet thing and was sitting here wondering what the hell just happened lol.


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## paintamtic (Mar 30, 2015)

We spoke with several contractors. It's not going to put anyone out of a job, but only help reduce the monotonous parts of the job. The dexterity of a human hand is far beyond the reach of any machine.



ProWallGuy said:


> Who were your "face-to-face surveys" done with? Homeowners? Contractors? I can't see many painters on board with something that would or could put them out of a job.
> 
> And thankfully you obviously aren't new to the whole internet thing and was sitting here wondering what the hell just happened lol.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Have to agree that spraying seems much more practical than rolling. The most useful thing I could think of with robotics would be a sprayer attacked to something like a smaller scale forklift mast that could do heights without the worries about safety and cost of setting up ladders, scissor lifts, or scaffoldings. Could greatly increase the versatility and efficiency of OMS and larger jobs alike.

Getting a robot to spray a flat wall is actually really, really easy with no obstructions. There need not be any set up except getting the robot to the wall; laser sensors can easily detect distance to the wall, start and end points, top and bottom points, and things that shouldn't be painted.

The residential idea, I have to agree, is a complete wash. It'd never be worthwhile to set it up. But if you're doing 20 foot walls in a gymnasium, or outsides of office buildings, or other large, flat surfaces- those are the jobs where robots shine.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Aren't there already robots selling paint at SW?


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

I'm not sure a fixed system will be the way "robotic" painting goes in the future. What about a spray gun affixed to a drone with hovering capabilities that is tethered to a pump on the ground and can apply a product at the direction of an operator? I think being able to remote control spray, especially large unobstructed and uncomplicated wall surfaces as in factories or warehouses, may not be that far off.


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## paintamtic (Mar 30, 2015)

Done already.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CI5K_KBoa74



RH said:


> I'm not sure a fixed system will be the way "robotic" painting goes in the future. What about a spray gun affixed to a drone with hovering capabilities that is tethered to a pump on the ground and can apply a product at the direction of an operator? I think being able to remote control spray, especially large unobstructed and uncomplicated wall surfaces as in factories or warehouses, may not be that far off.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Proalliance coatings said:


> Aren't there already robots selling paint at SW?


I prefer to call them DOPEs :whistling2:

I just can't wait until investment capital is asked of those who think this is a great idea


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

paintamtic said:


> Done already.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CI5K_KBoa74


Okay - that has to be a joke, as well as an ad for Handy Paint Pail. But substitute a sprayer for the silly rollers and brushes...


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

Maybe first invent a robot that would do nothing but clean-up and fold tarps. They could clean brushes, buckets, drywall tools, etc. When they prove trustworthy, move em up to cleaning the sprayer. After that, THEN brush & roll. 

Nobody starts out spraying, geeesh. Gotta earn your stripes first.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

daArch said:


> I prefer to call them DOPEs :whistling2:
> 
> I just can't wait until investment capital is asked of those who think this is a great idea


Can you imagine anyone wanting to invest in Apple's iTunes after Napster got crushed by the music industry? Now, the music industry pretty much depends on it.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

RH said:


> Okay - that has to be a joke, as well as an ad for Handy Paint Pail. But substitute a sprayer for the silly rollers and brushes...


talk about being PUNKED, 


I LOVE it

SAVE that vid for the next noob who comes on with a cliff built house needing staging :thumbup:


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## redd (Mar 22, 2015)

Will it make me coffee in the morning? Some pancakes wouldn't be bad either haha


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

redd said:


> Will it make me coffee in the morning? Some pancakes wouldn't be bad either haha


Any number of drive throughs will do that for you now, as long as it's before 10AM.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

It's interesting that for a community of entrepreneurs who can't be without their latest personal devices, there's so much resistance to innovation and technology. How are we ever going to lift the trade up from the building industry floor if painting contractors insist on modeling their businesses after a bygone era of human brute force and speed. 

So if the damn thing came in white, would it be more appealing?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Its only a lousy idea if it's not yours.


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## GR8painter (Dec 18, 2014)

I for one am totally open and accepting of new innovations, particularly if they are developed to a practical point. I like to try new things that make sense. Sometimes it works out, and sometimes the old way just makes sense. This concept not only makes sense but it will be the new reality in the not too distant future, doesn't mean every painter will be out of a job, but the ones that will feel the most secure are the ones who accept and embrace the inevitable. The ones who don't will fade away. Thats just how history and progress work.
one thing I am confident of, it will be a decade or more before a robot will cut in a room, or give you a great haircut, artistic ability pretty much absent from any type of automation for the foreseeable future.


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## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

I dont know that it will happen but if someone with money really wanted to I'm sure they could develop a robot that could paint. They have cars that drive themselves and not just on the highway but in cities and that is much more complicated than painting in my opinion. Is it economical I dont know but it could be. 

If you read any about artificial intelligence it has come a long ways in a short amount of time. Many of the brightest people Bill gates Elon Musk, Stephen Hawking, have warned recently about the advances and risks in artificial intelligence. I would not be surprised if in the next 30 years Robots are very capable of "Thinking". I read one study where the average painter IQ is 70 so its not like they are aiming real high.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

The airless probably brought more painters into the fold rather than reduce the numbers of painters. And frankly, if innovation in the painting industry required a more knowledgeable worker, then I would welcome the reduction of lower wage workers we see now acting merely as mules for the entrepreneurial spirited painting contractor who themselves couldn't work for anyone else.

Innovation is what will strengthen our position in the future. It's either that or continue comparing roller size in 2030


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

John,

I don't think that the professionals here feel that a technologically advanced computerized automated painting system is a bad idea, I think they are intelligent enough to see that this particular one has a LOT of flaws and that this is an idea barely off the drawing board with little knowledge of its flaws let alone a plan on how to address them.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

daArch said:


> John,
> 
> I don't think that the professionals here feel that a technologically advanced computerized automated painting system is a bad idea, I think they are intelligent enough to see that this particular one has a LOT of flaws and that this is an idea barely off the drawing board with little knowledge of its flaws let alone a plan on how to address them.



Did anyone really believe the OP was offering anything more than a concept? Even the photo looked staged and preposterous. 

Besides, what painter faces the direction he just came from while cutting in on a step ladder?


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

To all those saying this and that capability isn't possible, well it is possible I think.. Also you won't have to pay it hourly, pay it's break times, pay taxes on its hours worked or pay L&I. 
Complete joke though. April fools it got me too..

Okay so I replied after seeing the first page but now I know this was a better prank than the op even thought it would be, touche and happy april fools, the drone video was the ultimate laugh.


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## rlrlvx (May 14, 2012)

You are addressing the wrong market. The robot is never going to work in the residential market. With residential painting, rolling walls is perhaps 10% of the day's work. Besides, you see the mindset of residential painters here.

The robot could work in a commercial setting, especially for painting large commercial spaces. That's a specialty, but the sort of specialty where you'd deal with professional contractors who are looking to save on labor. The robot would need to go twice as high and three times as fast to be practical and probably would need a ceiling applicator, too. But those are technical issues that can be worked out.

It's just not ever going to work for painting bedrooms.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

I could see one of these guys carrying a sprayer hose (maybe in tandem with a few others?) and doing a fine job of it: http://www.ted.com/talks/raffaello_d_andrea_the_astounding_athletic_power_of_quadcopters?language=en

Highly recommend the video, it's very interesting and very fun.

Again, big spaces that are hard or unsafe for human painters to get through would be a fantastic niche.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Having worked in a chemical coatings batch plant, and having many oem customers that used robotic sprayers for paint and powder coatings, my concerns are the following.

How does a robot compensate for variances in the application properties of the paint? From one batch and even from one gallon to another there can be slight variations in application properties. A human can "sense" these changes and compensate accordingly.

How does it compensate for differences in applicator properties? For example the difference between a microfiber roller cover and a soft woven cover? How does it get an even wet mil application using several types of roller material, or will it be standardized or programed for each type of roller cover. Having to need someone to make these adjustments in the field defeats the purpose of trying to reduce man hours. Robotic sprayers used on production lines require constant monitoring of the system. If one employee can monitor multiple robots it makes sense. If it is one on one as this idea requires, it doesn't.

Robotic sprayers of both fluid and powder coatings require extremely strict parameters in the manufacture and quality control of the coating material. Rheology, pigment fineness, pigment consistency, dry time, open time. All of these things must be very well controlled for a robotic system to be consistent. Many large scale robotic spray lines in the US have a coating company technician on hand at all times to monitor the coating properties. How can the Architectural paint industry be expected to uphold these quality controls. Anyone who has used an airless sprayer for any length of time understands this.

Any attempt by the industry to maintain these perfect quality parameters would cause the price of paint to skyrocket faster than at any time in history, completely nullifying any potential savings in labor. Paints manufactured in small quantities for the robotic sprayers can run into the hundreds of dollars, especially in situations where only a couple hundred gallons are being made.

Tinting of paint at the store level would be another problem, as it would again require extreme control of the pigments and the tinting process. Painters usually feel quite happy when they can find a store that can tint two gallons the same color. Imagine having to get the stores to maintain a level of quality control 10-20 times greater then they do now. Almost impossible at 90% of the paint retailers in this country. SW chemical coatings stores have very strict quality control, that is very expensive to maintain. Every paint store would have to do this. Again, it would drive the price up yet again because of the training requirements needed.

In some parts of the country, there is readily available immigrant labor. Some of these people are actually quite good at painting. After years of applying the cheap paints(SW owned Comex for example) available in central and south America, they can be very good at applying the much higher quality paints typically sold in the US. The cheapness of this labor force will be a very hard thing to overcome. Airless sprayers are quite un-common even in Mexico City, where even large office buildings are typically brushed and rolled because the labor force is so inexpensive. This cheap labor is a large reason why I believe a robotic painting system is not economically feasible at this time.

I believe it's time will come, but that time is still a long way off.

In a lighter vein though, I have a new name suggestion for you.

i -haqk

Highly 

Accelerated

Quality

Killer


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

That's why I suggest spraying for a specific application with a quadracopter- would not require anything different than the current paints and you could even provide your own sprayer. Even if it meant one person actually operating it by hand, it could still be faster than dealing with ladders, scissor lifts, scaffolding, safety harnesses, etc. and it's safer.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

It's all about imagination and creativity, and combining that with technical possibilities. Today's computer programming, and design, demands human usability. Remember the movie The Fly, when Jeff Goldblum programs the computer to understand the essence of flesh in order to recreate it during teletransportation? Unfortunately, the fly got in the pod, and he started regurgitating his food, and the girl ends up blowing his brains out.., but I digress.

What this discussion has brought to my attention, is the emotional attachment painters have developed for their craft. It's as if no one, or thing could ever perform as well as they can. Painters are willing to suffer and take risks just to prove that they are perfectly capable of doing something. Meanwhile, everything is driven by production and speed. How un-emotional is production and speed if you exclude the stress?


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

A quick example- color eyes. They have been around for 30 years or more, and with constant tweaking and upgrading, they still cannot perfectly match every color every time. At some point, to get perfect color matches every time, a human has to check and adjust the color. Of course you can go to a box store, and the employee will just read and tint whatever comes up. But overall, color eyes have not improved dramatically in the last twenty years or so regardless of what their manufacturer reps tell you. And they are still very expensive. But used properly they are a valuable tool. I just think that robot that can be consistent and labor saving is much further off than people think. I do see great potential for using robotics and or drone type products to do high risk painting, because the potential insurance savings on large jobs may make them economical. High areas, hard to reach areas, using potentially toxic or flammable coatings are areas were this is a great idea. But unfortunately, i have seen way too many great ideas regarding paint applicators flop miserably.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Proalliance coatings said:


> A quick example- color eyes. They have been around for 30 years or more, and with constant tweaking and upgrading, they still cannot perfectly match every color every time. At some point, to get perfect color matches every time, a human has to check and adjust the color. Of course you can go to a box store, and the employee will just read and tint whatever comes up. But overall, color eyes have not improved dramatically in the last twenty years or so regardless of what their manufacturer reps tell you. And they are still very expensive. But used properly they are a valuable tool. I just think that robot that can be consistent and labor saving is much further off than people think. I do see great potential for using robotics and or drone type products to do high risk painting, because the potential insurance savings on large jobs may make them economical. High areas, hard to reach areas, using potentially toxic or flammable coatings are areas were this is a great idea. But unfortunately, i have seen way too many great ideas regarding paint applicators flop miserably.


If you have ever been in a confined space blasting col tar off a steel surface, with only two hundred feet of line between you and the ability to breath, the idea of a mechanized application and navigation unit (or MAAN Unit) doesn't seem like that bad of an idea.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Man he is REALLY fishing for those acronyms.

I think he wants them more than he wants the robots.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

This is what happens when painters think outside the box.....


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

ewingpainting.net said:


> This is what happens when painters think outside the box.....


We usually only think about the box.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> If you have ever been in a confined space blasting col tar off a steel surface, with only two hundred feet of line between you and the ability to breath, the idea of a mechanized application and navigation unit (or MAAN Unit) doesn't seem like that bad of an idea.


I used to spray self etching zinc chromate primer on the inside of airplane fuselages. Waaaaay back in the back tippy tip. 90 degrees F in a fresh air breather. And for some reason they always made the biggest guy working there (me) do it.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

I think it would be of great benefit to paint the exteriors of large agricultural structures such as barns and silos in particular. They are very tall, and the coating is more of a protective necessity than a decorative one. A fairly consistent mil thickness would be the primary requirement. In an application like this, used by a high volume painter, I think there might be a market for them.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

It's interesting. I'm currently studying project management, and one of the emphasis was on robotics. Japanese engineers have been developing advanced robotic systems for use in the construction industry since the early 90's. Unfortunately, the economic downturn they experienced halted development and production of practical robotic applications outside of a controlled manufacturing environment.

However, today they have GPS controlled unmanned excavators operated remotely for large construction projects. Deere is apparently supporting these advancements by manufacturing equipment that supports unmanned operation by GPS remote control. 

Although cheap labor may be available in many areas, the uncertainties that come with a growing number of unskilled workers in the construction field, can rival the uncertainties we have with robots. But, the robots _are _less likely to be distracted by their smart phones.


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## claudiui (Sep 15, 2013)

paintamtic said:


> I work for a start-up developing a robot that will paint the walls. The idea is the robot would do the rolling so the painter can focus on the cut-ins. We're trying to get an idea of market demand for such a product. Would this be of interest to anyone here?



Get yourself a real job. A very stupid concept having a robot paint the walls.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

claudiui said:


> Get yourself a real job. A very stupid concept having a robot paint the walls.


Given the poll results, you should be receiving a lot of Thanks. 

I don't disparage anyone who dares to dream, even while others trudge about with programmed ideas of what theirs, and everyone's else's purpose should be.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

CApainter said:


> Given the poll results, you should be receiving a lot of Thanks.
> 
> I don't disparage anyone who dares to dream, even while others trudge about with programmed ideas of what theirs, and everyone's else's purpose should be.


I think one of the biggest problems with accepting the anamatronic machine to take over humans work is we would all be paying big corporations big bucks to produce the robots, while they pay pennies to third world country laborers to make all the parts and assemble them, then ship them over here to replace the hard working tax paying tradesmen that make up our workforce. 
Ceos expecting millions of dollars per year that would be otherwise going to me and my friends for doing honest work is not acceptable..


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

ridesarize said:


> I think one of the biggest problems with accepting the anamatronic machine to take over humans work is we would all be paying big corporations big bucks to produce the robots, while they pay pennies to third world country laborers to make all the parts and assemble them, then ship them over here to replace the hard working tax paying tradesmen that make up our workforce.
> Ceos expecting millions of dollars per year that would be otherwise going to me and my friends for doing honest work is not acceptable..


We're already doing that with the third world Biological Unit Exploitation/ Northern Operating Systems or BUENOS.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

CApainter said:


> We're already doing that with the third world Biological Unit Exploitation/ Northern Operating Systems or BUENOS.


Yep. Their aeronautical division is called Buenos Aires.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

*A*cronym 
*L*overs,
*T*ake
*O*ff!


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I'm just Supporting Understanding Knowledge Interpretation and Translation, or SUKIT. :whistling2:


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

CApainter said:


> I'm just Supporting Understanding Knowledge Interpretation and Translation, or SUKIT. :whistling2:


CA will not be stopped! Lol


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## brushmonkey (Jan 4, 2010)

_iRollbot_ is finally here. Its better, faster, works for nothing, doesn't take breaks, talk back or get sick. 
Before you know it, we'll be obsolete meat sacks just getting in the way. :blink::blink::blink:


Coming soon.

https://youtu.be/M8YjvHYbZ9w


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## miket (Sep 16, 2009)

I have an idea to crush the competition. A segway transporter with a 24ft scisor lift mast.:notworthy:


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

DrakeB said:


> I could see one of these guys carrying a sprayer hose (maybe in tandem with a few others?) and doing a fine job of it: http://www.ted.com/talks/raffaello_d_andrea_the_astounding_athletic_power_of_quadcopters?language=en
> 
> Highly recommend the video, it's very interesting and very fun.
> 
> Again, big spaces that are hard or unsafe for human painters to get through would be a fantastic niche.


So I'm curious, if you guys saw one of these that could be programmed to do large exterior surfaces, would you go for it? Maybe it's time for me to swap industries.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

DrakeB said:


> So I'm curious, if you guys saw one of these that could be programmed to do large exterior surfaces, would you go for it? Maybe it's time for me to swap industries.


There's no question that having a programmable machine performing painting tasks would be fit the industry. But until the technology can exceed the current load limits these devices can manage, we won't be having drones painting the exterior of Mr. Lowbujet's house.

Currently, the best robot we have are the JLG's


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

It wouldn't have to hold the paint or pump itself- just the nozzle and whatever weight of the hose depending on its height. I think that's pretty doable with current quadcopter tech. The harder part would be the AI and pathfinding.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

DrakeB said:


> It wouldn't have to hold the paint or pump itself- just the nozzle and whatever weight of the hose depending on its height. I think that's pretty doable with current quadcopter tech. The harder part would be the AI and pathfinding.


Light weight equipment would certainly make it more practical. And with the ability to program altitude and global positioning, I think a drone could chart out the side of a building while maintaining a distance for spraying.


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

I don't know, I'm not sure us humans are ready for those sneaky robots to take our jobs! I mean look what happened to this guy, and he was just hitchhiking across the country. Those crazies up in Philly beat him up pretty bad.:jester:


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Sure would be a lot safer than scaffolding and extension ladders. Doubt it'd ever be real useful for residential stuff with trim, but sides of commercial and industrial buildings? _Potentially_ safer, faster, and more accurate than a person or even a crew.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

fauxlynn said:


> I don't know, I'm not sure us humans are ready for those sneaky robots to take our jobs!


Take what jobs? All I see on here is people complaining day in day out that they can't find any workers. Sounds like a win/win to me


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Here's a quick concept for robotic airless


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Is that a solid mast, then? See, I feel part of the perks of having a flying unit would be not being limited to having stable ground under it. Cliff sides, mud, snow, et cetera; none would effect a quad much. It could just carry a power cord and hose wherever. Although, admittedly, your concept would require much less involved programming.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

For some reason this came out all screwed up. Click on it for a better pic. Kind of a hard landing.LOL.


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## stl911 (Jul 16, 2014)

i like the idea, if the robot is one time charge with little $$$ maintenance, i will invest couple and hire less, labor cost is the most expense for any business


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