# The folly of an 18



## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

Is it faster??? or is it the macho roller?
1)An 18 will show you that the wall is not flat.
2)it doesn't get as close to the corners
3)it takes longer to clean
4)the covers are exspensive

Real power and production comes with a power roller. Wagner made one called the r-10, it came with a 12" roller, man I miss that. They quit making it about 15 years ago. So now its Graco, with a 9" roller. 

Its easier and faster to change colors with a power roller than an 18. I don't get why guys that have these BIG, OVERSIZED sprayers, don't use em( I use a CH diaprham rig, 18 years old). You can change colors on a power roller in under 10 mins. When using a power roller, the "time" from the bucket to the wall is gone. You just pull the trigger and roll, from now on !!!! Can't do THAT with an 18. 

You can even paint the closet with em, try that with an 18. They come with an extendable pole,,, ever tried rolling a 14' wall with an 18,,, rough on your body,,lol.


Seriously, everybody keeps talking about the best and fastest system,,, If you eliminate all the time of going back and forth to the bucket, and eliminate the "spreading around" of the paint after you get back from the bucket, the power roller will leave any other roller in the dust.

Beats me ????


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

That and an accubrush and you got it man!


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Is it faster??? or is it the macho roller?
> 1)An 18 will show you that the wall is not flat.
> 2)it doesn't get as close to the corners
> 3)it takes longer to clean
> ...


Capt Rocky, first off, Merry Christmas! I'm with you on the power rollers. I've used them on the exteriors of storage tanks where we weren't allowed to spray. I'm sold! 
I had a job recently where I had to paint some hallways in a commercial building. I rolled it with a nine inch roller because we couldn't spray. The power roller would have been perfect for that job. As it was, it was the first time I rolled out of a deep dish tray, and it worked great! I would have used an eighteen inch roller had I pried myself from some old habits.

I think that there will be some painters out there that will read your post, and give the power roller a try. It's surprising what we can learn when we check our egos for a moment.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

I pay under $10 for an 18 inch roller cover. Not too bad, I dont think. Takes only as long as cleaning two 9 inch covers. I use plastic or PVC tubes often with 18 inch covers when I know I need to use that same color for the 2nd coat later. Gets within 1 inch of a corner but when used with an open end 9, 11 or 14 inch -- you can keep the brush out of the corners too.

I wrote much about the pros and cons of an 18 inch roller here. The D/L video link on that post is the same video on youtube. Take note of the article date. Only difference today from that article is substituting a nine for an 11 inch cover or the open end 14. I really dont touch nines much anymore.


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

I bought my first power roller this summer. Used it on exteriors. I did it because of fear of wind and over spray with a sprayer. With the power roller it took out one more element of weather I didn't have to worry about....fretting about rain is enough.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Back when I was in my early twenties, me and my buddy who were learning on the fly, hooked up with another kid who was in the pool maintenance business. We would show up at a "drained" pool in the spring (concrete), pump it dry, "patch" some minor spots, and then roll on pool paint. That was the first time I ever saw 18" rollers. The tray was a big mutha made out of brass. Big bucks (for 1972). 

I would have NEVER considered using them for interior residential walls. If we ever did gymnasiums with cider block walls, then yes. Or tennis courts. 

They are specialty tools for the correct situation. They are not a panacea. 

But that's the nature of tools and pros. You know the right tool for the right job.


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## 2buckcanuck (Dec 14, 2010)

hey captain totally agree
I put a thread up asking why so many painters were afraid of new tech,it should of been why don't more of you use the power roller.
and yes captain, we know each other from drywall talk,were tapers,we think different than painters.but just to let others know,I'm not agreeing with the capt b/c he's a taper,trust me,,me and the capt knock heads from time to time,all in good fun of coarse .
but to me this tool rocks,I had a older model,and the new ones I see just look so much better.if I were to compare it to taping,it would be like coating your joints by hand (knife /trowel) or by machine,,,the boxes.the power roller is a machine.....period.
but I find most painters go "oh there's too much clean up with them" dear lord,then by 10 or 20 of them for the price they are,do your clean up on fridays or something.their fast !!!!:yes:


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## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

Ok I think I am finally motivated enough to pull out the Wooster speed roller that I bought 2 years ago out of the package and give it try. Not really sure why I have not used it yet but after reading everyones reviews I am willing to give it a whirl. Thanks for the kick it the stubborn zzz!


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

daArch said:


> Back when I was in my early twenties, me and my buddy who were learning on the fly, hooked up with another kid who was in the pool maintenance business. We would show up at a "drained" pool in the spring (concrete), pump it dry, "patch" some minor spots, and then roll on pool paint. That was the first time I ever saw 18" rollers. The tray was a big mutha made out of brass. Big bucks (for 1972).
> 
> I would have NEVER considered using them for interior residential walls. If we ever did gymnasiums with cider block walls, then yes. Or tennis courts.
> 
> ...


You mean when this was taking place?

Just kidding, Merry Christmas, and hopefully for all a more prosperous 2011


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Is it faster??? or is it the macho roller?
> 1)An 18 will show you that the wall is not flat.
> 2)it doesn't get as close to the corners
> 3)it takes longer to clean
> ...


 Not afraid of them, just have not had a large enough job, one color, where I could not spray, to warrant it. That said, I still believe in an average one color house, I could out roll or easily keep up with your power 9" or 12". ( I may be whooped at the end of the day).


Have only ran into that problem a few times. roll sideways
Close enough that it isn't a big deal. Use your 3" brush width ways and you should be fine.
No, I hook up to one of these and wash my brushes while it runs. And I bet I am done before you clean the machine, hose, sleeve and brush.
You must not have a decent paint account. I get between 40-50% off on them.
Merry Christmas. 

I still think they have a place in the painters arsenal.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

chrisn said:


> You mean when this was taking place?
> 
> Just kidding, Merry Christmas, and hopefully for all a more prosperous 2011


Jeeez, how old do you think I am? It was when THIS was taking place:










There's a funny looking obelisk there now










Merry Christmas to you too, whipper snapper


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## y.painting (Jul 19, 2009)

bikerboy said:


> [*]No, I hook up to one of these and wash my brushes while it runs. And I bet I am done before you clean the machine, hose, sleeve and brush.


You like those guys?


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

BrushJockey said:


> That and an accubrush and you got it man!


 Thats the very reason I started this thread. Most guys see the power roller as a gimmic. 

I lately painted a house that a differant color in almost every room. I just use a differant cover for each color, throw the old one in a bucket of water and clean em all at the end of the job. When you can change color in 10 minutes and keep the roller on the wall for the whole room (no bucket time) its a huge time saver.

Funny how most all the negitive feedback doesn't even mention the time you spend twixt the wall and bucket,,, do you feel that that is a non issue??

BTW, Graco sells one that you can screw off the roller head and screw on a spray tip. Makes a great pole for priming. But I guess you can prime with an 18 faster than you can spray one also. I spray the primer on and backroll with a 9" cause I don't like the way an 18 sets on the wall. 

I also know that it is futile trying to convince anyone to try a differant idea when they are sure they already know the best way. I just had to put in my 2 cents. Drives me nuts when guys get to talking about how effective an 18 is.


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## 2buckcanuck (Dec 14, 2010)

bikerboy said:


> Not afraid of them, just have not had a large enough job, one color, where I could not spray, to warrant it. That said, I still believe in an average one color house, I could out roll or easily keep up with your power 9" or 12". ( I may be whooped at the end of the day).
> the question is "why" would you race to keep up,is it a contest?will you win a prize?could you race the next day,or the day after that?
> have you heard the term working smart,why knock yourself out,would you not like to have more energy at the end of the day to spend time with family,ride your bike,price another job etc.....
> I know change can be scary ,but you can always come here for support:whistling2:


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

I had a PR in the late 80's. I believe it is still somewhere in the back of the garage. It used a squeegee roller on surgical tubing to move the paint. The roller cover was very tricky to get the paint to disperse evenly, and ended up more work at the rolling end if I was actually trying to lay it down nice. 
And now with these new gen paints ( I use Aura a lot) , rolling is pretty specific.
Maybe these have progressed from the semi toy one that I have. I would tend to think one of the ones that sprayed just before an attached roller would be more effective. 
I don't do work that really needs either though- I do smaller jobs, not huge NC. .


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Not folly, fast.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

2buckcanuck said:


> bikerboy said:
> 
> 
> > Not afraid of them, just have not had a large enough job, one color, where I could not spray, to warrant it. That said, I still believe in an average one color house, I could out roll or easily keep up with your power 9" or 12". ( I may be whooped at the end of the day).
> ...


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## 2buckcanuck (Dec 14, 2010)

bikerboy said:


> 2buckcanuck said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for your offer of support, if you took the time to read my post you'd see, *A)* that I think it has a place in a painters arsenal and *B)* I just have not had the job/place where I think it was suitable.
> ...


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

2buck said:


> the question is "why" would you race to keep up,is it a contest?will you win a prize?could you race the next day,or the day after that?
> have you heard the term working smart,why knock yourself out,would you not like to have more energy at the end of the day to spend time with family,ride your bike,price another job etc...


Gotta agree with that.
Trying to save time on a roller is probably the worst place to look if you're trying to make a few extra bucks on a job.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

2buckcanuck said:


> bikerboy said:
> 
> 
> > you forgot c) your faster than a power roller too.
> ...


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Here's why I see you as a troll:

*Your desrciption that you wrote about yourself:*
<LI class=profilefield_category>
About 2buckcanuck
Biography getting old & grumpy 
What is your paint related field or trade: machine taper 
Location near london ,ont,Can 
Interests bitching and complaining 
Occupation making life easy for painters 

*Your professed disgust of painters:*

what other typical response can you expect from a painter
besides,those 3rd world barbarians that you speak of won't cross the boarder into Canada,their afraid of the snow

and why do so many painters own one paint brush and roller,it's like you guys want to purposely spend half your day cleaning instead of producing....
so why does new tec scare you painters

*Workaholics descripton of why you joined:*

Actually I came to DT to discuss drywall topics but got stuck on a thread entitled Damn Painters when you shared your dislike for me being there. I since then have decided you just did not have good experience with them and have been pretty nice to you here even though your intent to join was to mess with me

So, because of these posts, it seems you are here to bust chops or just be annoying and juvenile. SOoo, I'll just right your off. Just like turning to another channel. Bye.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Oh, Merry Christmas, really.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

BrushJockey said:


> I had a PR in the late 80's. I believe it is still somewhere in the back of the garage. It used a squeegee roller on surgical tubing to move the paint. The roller cover was very tricky to get the paint to disperse evenly, and ended up more work at the rolling end if I was actually trying to lay it down nice.
> And now with these new gen paints ( I use Aura a lot) , rolling is pretty specific.
> Maybe these have progressed from the semi toy one that I have. I would tend to think one of the ones that sprayed just before an attached roller would be more effective.
> I don't do work that really needs either though- I do smaller jobs, not huge NC. .


 Thats a strange sounding setup. The power roller that graco sells, is just a pole(extendable) with an in-line gun at the bottom and a roller frame at top. It takes a regular cover(cept it has holes in the inside tube). The only differance in it and a regular roller is that you don't have to go back to the bucket.

Funny that no one seems to address the time going back and forth to the bucket,,, and thats like 1/2 the time,, even with an 18


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> Not folly, fast.


 Thats a pretty small room. I have an 18 in the shed somewhere. But for a room that size I would use a 9 out of a bucket,,, its like less than a gallon. Its also got sloped ceilings,, a 9 will get-r-done faster than turning your 18 all differant ways to get that little thing rolled, around the window and the ceiling.

I'm no rocket surgeon, but i did spend a night at the Hoilday Inn Exspress


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## 2buckcanuck (Dec 14, 2010)

bikerboy said:


> Here's why I see you as a troll:
> 
> *Your desrciption that you wrote about yourself:*
> <LI class=profilefield_category>
> ...


cry me a river,classic example of character assassination attempt,not going to work,do I make life easy for a painter,damn right I do,I'm one of the BEST at my trade.And do I bitch and complain alot as I age and get grumpy!!!!sure do,but I guess you don't see this as humor.
in taping,you always got some clown who says he can beat a bazooka,so on drywall talk it's put up or shut up,post a vid on you tube ,or go away.
SO here's the challenge bykerboy ,even though I no longer paint,the next house I get where the ceilings are over 9 foot high,I will go out and buy the power roller and paint them and place a vid on youtube,see if you can beat me,so that means I'm willing to buy paint,a power roller,and paint someones ceilings for free,to prove your wrong.talk is cheap.
and by the way,I hope your afraid of the snow:yes:


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

Power roller means this to me_










Feeds directly from 1 gallon can for continous supply of paint
Variable speed to match your painting pace
Ergonomic handle with controls provides paint to the roller with the push of a button
Reversing feature removes paint from hose for easier cleanup
Perforated roller cover distributes paint evenly on your wall for a professional finish every time
18 in. extension for reaching tall walls and ceilings
Trim and corner pad for fasy and easy cutting-in around trim and into corners
20 ft. hose provides a 40 ft. work area
Carrying handle for mobility
Includes roller base, 20 ft. paint hose, 18 in. extension, trim pad, corner pad. steel roller arm, 3/8 in. roller nap for semi-smooth surfaces, 3/4 in. nap for rough surfaces, quick-clean adapter
MFG Brand Name : Wagner
MFG Model # : 0514009
This is a toy. But is called a power roller.

Does what you're talking about feed through the handle to the inside of the roller, or have a spray tip that sprays the wall just ahead of the roller?

Maybe it's this deal- 









*Graco Magnum Pressure Roller Spray Painting Accessory*


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

BrushJockey said:


> Power roller means this to me_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I really wish I knew how to link stuff,,, the top one is a home owner rig from wagner, the bottom rig is a rinky dink rig from graco. Graco makes one with an INLINE gun with an extendable pole. It hooks to your airless, like the rinky dink model does. Yes the paint is fed from the inside of the roller frame


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

Captain, all you need to do is copy/paste the url.

Here is a thread with some links and discussions on power rollers.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

since its supposed to snow here tomarrow, I'll see if I can bring my rig in and take a webcam pic of it


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

RCP said:


> Captain, all you need to do is copy/paste the url.
> 
> Here is a thread with some links and discussions on power rollers.


 Thanks RCP, don't know how I missed that thread,,,lol. 

It will be easier for me to drag my rig in and take a pic of it than copy and paste (don't even have a clue what that means)


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

Hey Capt...your Graco is probably the same as mine?











With the straight handle so your wrist isn't kinked....










I've used mine a couple times indoors, but use it for almost all exteriors. You don't have to tape off anything and you don't have to worry about wind and overspray. 

For someone who works solo most of the time I think its a great tool. Of course it doesn't "do it all", but IMO - it beats dipping a roller working on any large surface.

Hope ya all had a great Christmas!


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Capt, I've read all 30+ posts on this thread, and have used the Graco set-up myself a few times. What it boils down for me is that I just don't like the roller-cover. And that, in itself, is enough for me to set it aside. Give me a good Hyde set-up with the frame attachment any day over the Graco. I can use any cover I want to suit the particular job. And the excuse for going back and forth to the bucket is kind of lame IMO. Maybe someone here will do a time/motion study on exactly how much time it takes to load a cover.


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

Wolfgang said:


> Capt, I've read all 30+ posts on this thread, and have used the Graco set-up myself a few times. What it boils down for me is that I just don't like the roller-cover. And that, in itself, is enough for me to set it aside. Give me a good Hyde set-up with the frame attachment any day over the Graco. I can use any cover I want to suit the particular job. And the excuse for going back and forth to the bucket is kind of lame IMO. Maybe someone here will do a time/motion study on exactly how much time it takes to load a cover.


Hey Wolf...what's a "Hyde set-up"? 

There's a of variety (limited though) of covers with different qualities, its not proprietary to Graco. With that said, I wouldn't use one if I was going for a nice finish....like I mentioned, mostly use it for exteriors and the interior jobs were garages. 

As for "time/motion".....the word "system" might come up....well you know what happens then. :jester:

Why is talking about going to the bucket lame? The painting scenario in my head is different then yours so who knows what I'm questioning here exactly, but when I've decided a job is suitable for a power roller I don't think someone working out of a pan/bucket could keep up. The set/clean up would be longer for me so the job would have to be big enough to counter that. 

For me I remember using it for the first time and feeling FREE! I can roll as long and fast as I can until my arm gave out. Giddy like a school girl.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Thats a pretty small room. I have an 18 in the shed somewhere. But for a room that size I would use a 9 out of a bucket,,, its like less than a gallon. Its also got sloped ceilings,, a 9 will get-r-done faster than turning your 18 all differant ways to get that little thing rolled, around the window and the ceiling.
> 
> I'm no rocket surgeon, but i did spend a night at the Hoilday Inn Exspress


 Only one spot I had to turn sideways in that room and that was by the second pic doorway. Also that was over 4 gallons of that grey, the stairway, master bath, and the walk in.

I am so used to it I don't think of the 18 as big at all, and I can comfortably use it in a home full of furnishings.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Hyde Quick-Reach. You can buy them in various extendable lengths. Attach the spray and roll attachment and you're good to go with whatever cover you prefer.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

with the external spray though, then there is overspray to deal with. I do not like the sound of that.


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## CK_68847 (Apr 17, 2010)

We have forty to fifty people in our company depending on the year. Everyone started out by using a 9 inch wherever they worked. Everyone here now uses a 14 inch roller. Like I have said in other posts they offer the extended coverage of an 18 inch but also allow you to roll tight into corners. It increases production vastly. Not one person here would ever want to go back to 9 inch. 

Dont get me wrong though a 9 inch has its place. If you are painting a door or an accent wall there is no reason to pull out a 14 inch roller. You can buy the frames through wooster. There are a few different companies who make the covers but pro roller offers the best selection with covers for rougher surfaces and dripless covers.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

OK..I'm getting reading to put my credit card number in to order about $500 worth of 14" roller stuff from Painters Toys. Is this a good place to order from?


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

aaron61 said:


> OK..I'm getting reading to put my credit card number in to order about $500 worth of 14" roller stuff from Painters Toys. Is this a good place to order from?


Never ordered from them but it looks right as far as pricing goes, I estimated shipping cost for a 3-1/2 swan, 16+ to ship making it a 40+ brush but at X amount maybe they offer free shipping.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

I got tired of waiting for a response so I order 12 1 1/4" covers/12 3/4" covers/6 14" frames/6 wide boys. So lets see if I can keep the boys using them.They'll probably be here in week.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

aaron61 said:


> I got tired of waiting for a response so I order 12 1 1/4" covers/12 3/4" covers/6 14" frames/6 wide boys. So lets see if I can keep the boys using them.They'll probably be here in week.


Charge up that Flip camera!:thumbsup:


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

My guys are gonna sh1t!!


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> Only one spot I had to turn sideways in that room and that was by the second pic doorway. Also that was over 4 gallons of that grey, the stairway, master bath, and the walk in.
> 
> I am so used to it I don't think of the 18 as big at all, and I can comfortably use it in a home full of furnishings.


 okay, but the pic you posted was a small little bonus closet, on my computer anyway.

I understand that you are used to using an 18, but that in itself does not make it fadter. I don't use a power roller in a re-paint either, I don't think I said it was the tool for that,, I was just stateing that it is faster than an 18 any day of the week. 

I'm out of this thread,,, even tho I started it,, If you want to use an 18 from know on,, go ahead and beat your own head against the wall.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

DeanV said:


> with the external spray though, then there is overspray to deal with. I do not like the sound of that.


When you have the roller attachment on, the nozzle of the gun is so close to the surface that the overspray is almost non-existent. You're not going for a wide pattern, just enough that you can roll out what is applied.


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## One Coat Coverage (Oct 4, 2009)

the folly of a drywall taper telling a painter how to paint......


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

aaron61 said:


> I got tired of waiting for a response so I order 12 1 1/4" covers/12 3/4" covers/6 14" frames/6 wide boys. So lets see if I can keep the boys using them.They'll probably be here in week.


 
Aaron,
Order some of these liners for the wide boy buckets. They make clean up a snap. (search the site, I think they offer a free sample) These are cheaper than paying your guys to wash the buckets out. They also have a dealer list, so maybe somebody in your area carries them.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

bikerboy said:


> Aaron,
> Order some of these liners for the wide boy buckets. They make clean up a snap. (search the site, I think they offer a free sample) These are cheaper than paying your guys to wash the buckets out. They also have a dealer list, so maybe somebody in your area carries them.


They're on the way. I just couldn't see where I could order them directly??


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I have some samples of those liners coming as well. If those work well, we may try switching to larger rollers. Otherwise, I do not see the switch happening for most of our residential jobs.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

DeanV said:


> I have some samples of those liners coming as well. If those work well, we may try switching to larger rollers. Otherwise, I do not see the switch happening for most of our residential jobs.


My guys hated them until the end of the day. Pour the paint out of the bucket, pull the liner out and throw it in the trash. I pull it out, shape it like a pastry bag, cut the corner off and squeeze the paint into the bucket.

And if you are going to be in the same color the next day, just wrap the pad in the liner.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

bikerboy said:


> Aaron,
> Order some of these liners for the wide boy buckets. They make clean up a snap. (search the site, I think they offer a free sample) These are cheaper than paying your guys to wash the buckets out. They also have a dealer list, so maybe somebody in your area carries them.


I agree Sal's liners are good to work with.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Aaron,
The owner of valley products is a member here. Send him a pm and he may sell them direct since they don't have a dealer listed in your area. http://www.painttalk.com/private.php?do=newpm&u=2171


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

Just talked with Sal.Great guy. I'll be rollin them 14's before ya know it!
I'm kinda excited to see what happens.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

aaron61 said:


> OK..I'm getting reading to put my credit card number in to order about $500 worth of 14" roller stuff from Painters Toys. Is this a good place to order from?


Yeah I know Karl :thumbsup:


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

aaron61 said:


> I got tired of waiting for a response so I order 12 1 1/4" covers/12 3/4" covers/6 14" frames/6 wide boys. So lets see if I can keep the boys using them.They'll probably be here in week.


You'll find those 14" frames flex a bit much especially if you have a guy who can roll. I keep my 14" on the wideboy frame for a solid rolling experience. 

Another thing worth mentioning about those 14" and 18" covers on a wideboy frame.... they really need to be on a GT or similar locking extension pole. Really more of a must do thing.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

My boys are serious rollers.All we use are HD frames.So are these frames flimsey?
I wanted the open end so we can em in the corners


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

aaron61 said:


> My boys are serious rollers.All we use are HD frames.So are these frames flimsey?
> I wanted the open end so we caron em in the corners


I'm a serious roller. I like to make rolling the least of the project. I've found the 14" open end frames flexed more than I cared to deal with. I think I had better results sticking a 14" cover on a Purdy Cageless because it has a 3/8" shank. Only downside, the extra weight kills those nylon bearings. 

You can pop a Cageless frame open simply by pulling the yellow endcaps off. They are pressure fitted on the shank via a faint thread stamped on the metal. you have to pull hard but I load them up with white lithium. 

Back when I was using 9's I would always have one handy when I was rolling with an 18" to roll into corners. Often another guy ran the nine ahead of me, hitting anything short in width. I'm not a fan of turning the 14" or 18" on its side. I think it kills production and your back.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I need some of those liners. Made this one today, its an 1000 sqft office addition to my mechanic friends business.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

aaron61 said:


> My boys are serious rollers.All we use are HD frames.So are these frames flimsey?
> I wanted the open end so we caron em in the corners


_I've never had a problem with them._


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

aaron... here is what I was talking about by getting 1 inch into corners.

In his video he rolls to 1 inch, now I go to the next wall and run it 1 inch before I continue down the first wall. In order to get 1:1 on both walls... the frame needs to glide on the first walls wet paint. It will leave a mark shown in orange. Faintly, depending on how careful you were. Because the orange mark is further than 1 inch from the corner, it allows you to jump back and hit it without hitting the second wall again and leaving a mark there.

Hope that makes sense. Thats a SCREENSHOT below. Orange mark is further away than his 1 inch cut.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

4:30? doesn't really seem much faster?


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## CK_68847 (Apr 17, 2010)

aaron61 said:


> OK..I'm getting reading to put my credit card number in to order about $500 worth of 14" roller stuff from Painters Toys. Is this a good place to order from?


Arron try to go with pro roller if you can find them. In my town they sell to Diamond Vogel, therefore they wont sell to SW. They have a thing where they will only sell to one store in a town for some reason. Maybe you can order them direct too. They do make dripless white covers in 3/4 1/2 and 3/8. These are a lot better than the standard rollers because you dont have to tape them to try to rid the fuzz. They also hold paint well.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

Everything is textured down here.We rarely use anything less than a 3/4. I bought the wooster super fabs 3/4 & 1 1/4 not really my favs but that seemed to be the best available??


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

aaron61 said:


> 4:30? doesn't really seem much faster?


1/4" nap. :/


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## CK_68847 (Apr 17, 2010)

bikerboy said:


> Aaron,
> Order some of these liners for the wide boy buckets. They make clean up a snap. (search the site, I think they offer a free sample) These are cheaper than paying your guys to wash the buckets out. They also have a dealer list, so maybe somebody in your area carries them.


It looks like a nice product. If you dont have or dont want to buy liners for a big tray you can also take some 72 or 99 inch plastic and line the tray. We usually do it that way. I never use to do it until and old painter who was a clean freak was doing it. Other guys and I tried it and ever since it caught on with everyone at our company.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

straight_lines said:


> 1/4" nap. :/


WOW.... that wall should be so slick a fly would slide right off trying to land.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

aaron61 said:


> 4:30? doesn't really seem much faster?


Actually I didnt watch past 41 seconds until now. I have some past footage of rolling walls with an 18". I'll look for them. I would roll a room like his video in under 6 minutes easy. I want you guys to tell me if it looks like I'm rolling fast or not. I dont think I am, it just feels like a steady pace to me. I do 100 sq ft per minute. That is the tested equivalent results of the Wooster Speed Roller. 

I'll dig for it. What I think I have is the other walls from the video I have on youtube. Anyway, the link below helps alot. I see in his video he dicked around with his heavy paint near the ceiling. He laid the load into the wall and went straight to the ceiling with it. Not picking, just saying. We all do our thing.

Load distribution.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> 1/4" nap. :/


shoot. thats right. it was 1/4" 

So why 1/4"? Curious.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> shoot. thats right. it was 1/4"
> 
> So why 1/4"? Curious.


Beginning of video said it was pro-mar 400 semi gloss.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

aaron61 said:


> Everything is textured down here.We rarely use anything less than a 3/4. I bought the wooster super fabs 3/4 & 1 1/4 not really my favs but that seemed to be the best available??


Do you use 1 1/4" inside? Texture is that heavy you need it? I tend to use 3/4" when I roll flat paint on flat smooth walls just to get that extra load to go further. So sheen variations isnt a real issue for you guys then? I would think that texture would hide just about anything.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

jack pauhl said:


> Do you use 1 1/4" inside? Texture is that heavy you need it? I tend to use 3/4" when I roll flat paint on flat smooth walls just to get that extra load to go further. So sheen variations isnt a real issue for you guys then? I would think that texture would hide just about anything.


i would use a 1/2 inch nap for that job in the vid. probably wouldnt have to work the paint as much as was done in the vid. seemed like a lot of extra rolling, no offense.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

scratch that.. no videos... I looked... the videos I have are showing rolling methods rather than straight rolling. Can always make more. Never a shortage of walls to be rolled!

Something interesting worth nothing about rolling. Apparently this house seen below was done by a blind drywaller. The entire house looked like that. What you see is drywall primer which was patched over.

It took less time to roll this entire house (4 hours) with an 18" which has 16' foyer to great room than it took to touch up those patched areas with a 9"


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

No it was a lot of extra rolling, but a 1/2 nap isn't for semi-gloss walls. I could have used a 1/2 and it would have been a lot easier but that wouldn't be done right.

I tried to talk him out of using it, but he was dead set on semi. Mechanic hands and grease was his concern, and considering how bad his old office looks with flat white I don't blame him.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

TJ Paint said:


> i would use a 1/2 inch nap for that job in the vid. probably wouldnt have to work the paint as much as was done in the vid. seemed like a lot of extra rolling, no offense.


Yeah I see no problem with 1/2 or 3/8. You can always move paint around to be less heavy. From a production standpoint, its just getting the paint on the walls. Then it can be finished off to a fine semi gloss finish.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

jack pauhl said:


> scratch that.. no videos... I looked... the videos I have are showing rolling methods rather than straight rolling. Can always make more. Never a shortage of walls to be rolled!
> 
> Something interesting worth nothing about rolling. Apparently this house seen below was done by a blind drywaller. The entire house looked like that. What you see is drywall primer which was patched over.
> 
> It took less time to roll this entire house (4 hours) with an 18" which has 16' foyer to great room than it took to touch up those patched areas with a 9"


hard to believe but I choose to. u doing gardz?


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

TJ Paint said:


> hard to believe but I choose to. u doing gardz?


No Gardz, this PC is using drywall primer because the builder is not willing to pay more, but they almost always finish in flat paint. This is another PC I'm working with to develop a new system for painting that particular house. 

I just found out today, they repatched the whole house again after the above photo was reprimed. Now that house is so fooledaroundwith... those 16' high walls are begging to be seen.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


> aaron... here is what I was talking about by getting 1 inch into corners.
> 
> In his video he rolls to 1 inch, now I go to the next wall and run it 1 inch before I continue down the first wall. In order to get 1:1 on both walls... the frame needs to glide on the first walls wet paint. It will leave a mark shown in orange. Faintly, depending on how careful you were. Because the orange mark is further than 1 inch from the corner, it allows you to jump back and hit it without hitting the second wall again and leaving a mark there.
> 
> Hope that makes sense. Thats a SCREENSHOT below. Orange mark is further away than his 1 inch cut.


On smooth wall you should be turning the roller sideways and rolling into the corners.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Bender said:


> On smooth wall you should be turning the roller sideways and rolling into the corners.


Lots of guys do that. I prefer to have a 9" (now an 11") for rolling tight into corners only needing a sliver to be cut if any.

I just find for me its counterproductive, besides the inherent heavy mark it can leave if not careful in the corner. I really dont like turning a 14/18 sideways and I avoid doing it at all costs. If the 14 or 18 doesnt fit the width, I dont roll it. I grab the 11" or someone else is going around hitting those areas for me.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

> besides the inherent heavy mark it can leave if not careful in the corner


Right, but I would never start rolling (tight) in a corner. You should have your load leveled out before you roll back into the corner.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Bender said:


> Right, but I would never start rolling (tight) in a corner. You should have your load leveled out before you roll back into the corner.


 I actually unloaded before rolling tight, it was really the last thing I did on that first pass.



jack pauhl said:


> Yeah I see no problem with 1/2 or 3/8. You can always move paint around to be less heavy. From a production standpoint, its just getting the paint on the walls. Then it can be finished off to a fine semi gloss finish.


 I did use a 3/8 on first coat, this is the finish coat. I don't see how using two different naps on the same pass would be more productive?


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> I actually unloaded before rolling tight, it was really the last thing I did on that first pass.
> 
> 
> 
> I did use a 3/8 on first coat, this is the finish coat. I don't see how using two different naps on the same pass would be more productive?


Oh no... I'm not saying use two different covers. Just saying lay 3'-4' wide, wet and heavy (not accurate) and move it to be finished off smooth. 

When I roll with an 18 today, I apply paint generously and I move it to how I see fit. Of course, flats and eggshells are treated differently. My goal is getting as much paint on the wall the fastest, once there, I finish off. I dont apply one roller width and work it to a finish because the next load needs to run into the previous. So I keep applying paint til I feel its still safe to go back and finish it off. That wall you rolled in the video, I wouldn't hesitate to apply paint to half of it, then finish it off.

For example that Load Distribution link provided previously. I will do that as far as 4'-6' down the wall and then go back and finish it off doing that last pass down. I don't really backroll in the sense most guys think of backrolling. I backroll immediately as part of distributing the load.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

There are a lot of variables to that video. Firstly, the paint - promar 400 isn't known for being a high end paint. I remember having to backroll lots of cheap paint back in the day, when I use paints like Aura or Accolade - I'd never backroll that much. As well we have the finish, semigloss. Semigloss requires 1/4" nap - which means you'll be loading a lot more often. Semigloss also requires much more attention to detail or you'll get flashing and lines, etc. I'd say this wasn't your average painting. 

As a comparison for that same stretch of wall using a 3/8" nap, 9" sleeve - just rolling normal Ben Moore Regal eggshell - it would take me the same amount of time, 4 to 5 minutes per 10 linear feet of wall. Now throw Aura Matt paint, purdy pro-extra 1-3/4" diameter frame, with a 3/4" collasus sleeve - and I could that time in half.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Rob would have sprayed it...


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

ive done plenty of semi and have yet to use a 1/4 roller to make it look good. if it was a door or other trim then yes. but commercial office walls, no chance.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

TJ Paint said:


> ive done plenty of semi and have yet to use a 1/4 roller to make it look good. if it was a door or other trim then yes. but commercial office walls, no chance.


I won't disagree with this statement - this is just what I was taught by my mentors back in the day. Not that rolling semi/high gloss is a common occurence in my world. I just don't understand how you would overcome all the waviness of a wall using 1/4" X 18" roller sleeves? Perhaps they were thinking high gloss paints = oils? Maybe you would definitely need a 1/4" nap for applying high gloss oil paints to walls.


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## CK_68847 (Apr 17, 2010)

TJ Paint said:


> ive done plenty of semi and have yet to use a 1/4 roller to make it look good. if it was a door or other trim then yes. but commercial office walls, no chance.


You are exactly right TJ. I have done plenty of semi gloss too. Anything from 1/2 inch to a 3/4 inch nap is fine for a wall. Using 1/4 inch nap to roll a wall is crazy.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

plainpainter said:


> I won't disagree with this statement -


you are so careful with your words.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

CK_68847 said:


> You are exactly right TJ. I have done plenty of semi gloss too. Anything from 1/2 inch to a 3/4 inch nap is fine for a wall. Using 1/4 inch nap to roll a wall is crazy.


 Yet its the right way to do it, and you guys should know that a 1/2 nap won't produce a true semi-gloss, or even an eggshell finish. 

Whoever thought doing something right may actually take longer.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> I need some of those liners. Made this one today, its an 1000 sqft office addition to my mechanic friends business.
> 
> YouTube - Johnson Home Construction


 Are you saying that was fast???


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Faster than a 9, without a doubt.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> Faster than a 9, without a doubt.


 :lol:

Next time,drive a stob up next to him, so we can tell if he's really moving!!!!


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I could have gone faster if the sheetrock guy had done a better job. :whistling2:


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

straight_lines said:


> Yet its the right way to do it, and you guys should know that a 1/2 nap won't produce a true semi-gloss, or even an eggshell finish.
> 
> Whoever thought doing something right may actually take longer.


show me where and in what manual you are referring to the "right way". hey, i'm not telling you that youre wrong. If it works for you keep doing it. 

As for myself, I'll keep getting paid how I do it, and in what looks like 25% less time.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> I could have gone faster if the sheetrock guy had done a better job. :whistling2:


 LOL, no doubt,,, me too, and I do my own drywall. Nothing wrong with the video, looks like ya did a good job,,, just not a fast one.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

I think we can all agree, be it perhaps the correct way to paint semigloss on walls, that 1/4" nap is a major production killer? I understand straight-lines comment about achieving a 'true' eggshell or semigloss finish with such deep naps. But in this day in age - I don't know if I care enough to sacrifice production that much just to achieve a 'true' finish. Seems to me there are more and more paints that perform at a higher level - take for example Aura Matte finish. Perhaps some guys would lament the $50-$60/gallon price tag - but you can roll that stuff with 3/4" naps and achieve a beautiful finish. I know with my purdy pro-extra 9" 3/4" collasus cover/roller - I would have dunked fewer times for paint than that video!!!!


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## admirableptg (Oct 23, 2008)

cant beleive that people are still complaining about the cost of a roller cover. labor is the biggest cost and then paint. The fact of the matter is when you use a 9 you spend three times as much time applieng paint to the roller. this alone is enough to justify its use. I hear everone about multiple color changes and all that, but thats why I have more than one 18 frame and multiple pans. with the large pans you also have less chance of stepping in the tray...not that that has ever happened:whistling2:


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

what are naps?


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

admirableptg said:


> cant beleive that people are still complaining about the cost of a roller cover. labor is the biggest cost and then paint. The fact of the matter is when you use a 9 you spend three times as much time applieng paint to the roller. this alone is enough to justify its use. I hear everone about multiple color changes and all that, but thats why I have more than one 18 frame and multiple pans. with the large pans you also have less chance of stepping in the tray...not that that has ever happened:whistling2:


It's a little different when you have 5 crews and who uses pans? You dip out of a 5er.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

TJ Paint said:


> show me where and in what manual you are referring to the "right way". hey, i'm not telling you that youre wrong. If it works for you keep doing it.
> 
> As for myself, I'll keep getting paid how I do it, and in what looks like 25% less time.


 Do you really think rolling semi gloss on smooth drywall with a 1/2 nap is the right way? I thought as a pro you would know better, at least admit I was doing the right thing.

I acknowledged it was slower, but you can't get a semi gloss finish with a heavy nap, its either spray or use a 1/4 nap.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> Do you really think rolling semi gloss on smooth drywall with a 1/2 nap is the right way? I thought as a pro you would know better, at least admit I was doing the right thing.
> 
> I acknowledged it was slower, but you can't get a semi gloss finish with a heavy nap, its either spray or use a 1/4 nap.


What brand of cover was used in the video?


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

straight_lines said:


> Do you really think rolling semi gloss on smooth drywall with a 1/2 nap is the right way? I thought as a pro you would know better, at least admit I was doing the right thing.
> 
> I acknowledged it was slower, but you can't get a semi gloss finish with a heavy nap, its either spray or use a 1/4 nap.


I think you do good work. I said earlier that I wasn't trying to say you are wrong with your methods. 

I don't know if it makes sense to continue the conversation pertaining to this subject, however. All I'm saying is I can do my jobs like that with a 1/2 microfiber and the customer is happy, especially on a commercial job like yours. 

Other types of jobs may require different methods, systems.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> What brand of cover was used in the video?


 Purdy I am sure. I didn't buy it for this job it was one I had for a while. Probably two or more years.



TJ Paint said:


> I think you do good work. I said earlier that I wasn't trying to say you are wrong with your methods.
> 
> I don't know if it makes sense to continue the conversation pertaining to this subject, however. All I'm saying is I can do my jobs like that with a 1/2 microfiber and the customer is happy, especially on a commercial job like yours.
> 
> Other types of jobs may require different methods, systems.


 I agree, but this guy is a friend and he is particular. He is also painting my truck as payment, and I want it done right as well.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

admirableptg said:


> labor is the biggest cost


 That is the reason for this thread,,,,,, pay attention !!!!


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