# Need product knowledge



## Always Learning (Mar 24, 2012)

Made the mistake of using a Zinsser water based primer to seal nicotine in an interior paint job in an effort for low odor and easy clean up. Finished the ceiling with 2 coats of BM dead flat in white. Now that bleadthrough is apparrent :blinknot super obvious, but I care), I have 2 questions:
1). wondering how long to wait before using Zinsser low odor, oil primer over the just applied latex products?
2). Is there a better recommended product for ceiling priming that works, but will limit splatter.


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## wills fresh coat (Nov 17, 2011)

Always Learning said:


> Made the mistake of using a Zinsser water based primer to seal nicotine in an interior paint job in an effort for low odor and easy clean up. Finished the ceiling with 2 coats of BM dead flat in white. Now that bleadthrough is apparrent :blinknot super obvious, but I care), I have 2 questions:
> 1). wondering how long to wait before using Zinsser low odor, oil primer over the just applied latex products?
> 2). Is there a better recommended product for ceiling priming that works, but will limit splatter.


Roll with coverstain half inch nap and roll slower, you should be fine......you can roll it now, don't need to wait long! Good luck


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## scottjr (Jan 14, 2012)

Always Learning said:


> Made the mistake of using a Zinsser water based primer to seal nicotine in an interior paint job in an effort for low odor and easy clean up. Finished the ceiling with 2 coats of BM dead flat in white. Now that bleadthrough is apparrent :blinknot super obvious, but I care), I have 2 questions:
> 1). wondering how long to wait before using Zinsser low odor, oil primer over the just applied latex products?
> 2). Is there a better recommended product for ceiling pr,iming that works, but will limit splatter.


If the stain is in a small area(s) I use SW problock oil primer in the spray can. If it is the whole ceiling, take Will's advice.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

We've all been there, so don't beat yourself up. Water base stain blocking primers have there place, but they are hit or miss. That's why I lean more to the oil one's, smell be dammed. Just follow Wills advise and you will be good.


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## Always Learning (Mar 24, 2012)

Odorless, per Zinnser website, should function as needed. As you recommend cover stain, do you not like odorless, or just not as familiar? Owners do have minor health issues and do have pets. Also, as it is a ceiling, and to mitigate further loss, per the website, I have the option of leaving the Odorless as a finished surface? Can I do this with Cover Stain? The website didn't mention this. I want the result professional and passing even the discriminating eye. As it is a ceiling, washability is not an issue.

Thanks for the timing/cure advice. This is a small ranch home that has a continuous ceiling from kitchen, to living room, to hallways...... a costly mistake on my part. Do not want to make it worse. Understand my concern about making things worse when I ask, have you tried oil on what will be by Monday, 3 coats of day cured latex 4 days old(1 primer, 2 BM)?

No offense intended. Just covering bases. Thanks for taking your time to address my problem.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

I haven't used the "oderless" yet, but my understanding is that its still toxic like all other oils. You just cant _smell_ it.


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## Always Learning (Mar 24, 2012)

Per specs on website it is toxic upon spraying or sanding, but not for brush application.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Always Learning said:


> Odorless, per Zinnser website, should function as needed. As you recommend cover stain, do you not like odorless, or just not as familiar? Owners do have minor health issues and do have pets. Also, as it is a ceiling, and to mitigate further loss, per the website, I have the option of leaving the Odorless as a finished surface? Can I do this with Cover Stain? The website didn't mention this. I want the result professional and passing even the discriminating eye. As it is a ceiling, washability is not an issue.
> 
> Thanks for the timing/cure advice. This is a small ranch home that has a continuous ceiling from kitchen, to living room, to hallways...... a costly mistake on my part. Do not want to make it worse. Understand my concern about making things worse when I ask, have you tried oil on what will be by Monday, 3 coats of day cured latex 4 days old(1 primer, 2 BM)?
> 
> No offense intended. Just covering bases. Thanks for taking your time to address my problem.



Yes, the oil version is designed to be used under and over any latex surface. May be top coated in two hours although I prefer to give it more time (around 6). I only use the oil (or shellac) based ones for any kind of staining issues.


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## Always Learning (Mar 24, 2012)

Research hound, does your reply infer youn have had to use oil primers over freshly painted latex that has shown bleadthrough, more than once?


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## Always Learning (Mar 24, 2012)

To edit my stated conditions, I last painted the ceiling this past Thursday with the 3 coats. I am hoping to repaint as soon as this coming Monday. Primer was intended to be just a sealer, and lacked pigment, so the old yellow still showed through almost as original. After 1 coat of BM ultra flat in white, it was not evident if what I was seeing was bleedthrough or just inability of pigments to cover the old creamy tan yellow color( about 3 samples down on a fan deck). Therefore I did not realize the problem until after the 3rd coat.

So, let me make it clear, I am asking about priming with oil on a freshly painted ceiling. Is your time frame as written still valid?


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

Any primer should be left to dry 4 hrs. or more to be able to block stains. I would re prime with zinsser cover stain or zinssser bin primer and let it dry overnight to be on the safe side.


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## Always Learning (Mar 24, 2012)

Thanks for the replies but please read the question more carefully, as I am concerned the responses are not addressing my initial question. 

I am under the assumption I must use an oil based paint or primer to seal bleadthrough from nicotine. How long must I wait to repaint over freshly painted latex?

Thanks.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

go ahead and prime it today and pain it tomorrow. :thumbsup:


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Always Learning said:


> Research hound, does your reply infer youn have had to use oil primers over freshly painted latex that has shown bleadthrough, more than once?


Can't say I've recently used it over _freshly_ painted latex since I use the oil based stain sealing primers as needed before top coating. Seems that if you've provided the necessary re-coat time recommended by the manufacturer of your top coat product (BM?), I don't see where you would have any issues. However, if you are still concerned, I'd suggest you contact Zinsser (Rustoleum) technical support directly: 

http://www.rustoleum.com/CBGCorporate.asp?sn=cu


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## Wood511 (Dec 13, 2010)

BM Ultra flat hasn't been a great performer for me in terms of hide. I'm usually going over white with white, but I haven't tested the hide extensively on colors. I suspect it would be pretty lacking based on the white over white performance. 

My normal ceiling paint from BM is ben flat and I have them tint the white with my own custom formula that we worked up last year through trial and error. The hide is solid.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

I understand what you are asking. Can you use the oil based primer over the latex you've applied and if so how long should you wait to do so? 

As per my previous answer - allowing for what the manufacturer recommends for normal recoating time should be adequate. If you are still concerned, just wait until Monday to commence (as you likely need to do anyway) and you should be more than fine.


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## Always Learning (Mar 24, 2012)

Yeah, like I said, a big mistake, hence always learning. Thank God I am learning from my mistakes and not repeating them. I suspicion the recoat time as listed on the can assumes a second coat of the same finished product. Why recoat with a primer??? Except if you made the mistake I did.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Always Learning said:


> To edit my stated conditions, I last painted the ceiling this past Thursday with the 3 coats. I am hoping to repaint as soon as this coming Monday.


good



Always Learning said:


> Primer was intended to be just a sealer, and lacked pigment, so the old yellow still showed through almost as original. After 1 coat of BM ultra flat in white, it was not evident if what I was seeing was bleedthrough or just inability of pigments to cover the old creamy tan yellow color( about 3 samples down on a fan deck). Therefore I did not realize the problem until after the 3rd coat.
> 
> So, let me make it clear, I am asking about priming with oil on a freshly painted ceiling. Is your time frame as written still valid?


yes


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## HQP2005 (Feb 14, 2012)

Always Learning said:


> Made the mistake of using a Zinsser water based primer to seal nicotine in an interior paint job in an effort for low odor and easy clean up.


This may not make you feel better about your lost time, but at least you recognized what it was at the start. 

I once put 2 coats on a 30x15 cieling (that was seperated by 5 wood beams) trying to cover what I thought was just aged paint before I figured out why it kept turning yellow. Appearently the lady who lived there for the last 40 years was a chain smoker. Had never seen anything like before. 

Cover Stain :thumbsup:

Live and Learn


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

Are you a professional painter?


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

ProWallGuy said:


> Are you a professional painter?


I was about to ask the same thing.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Always Learning said:


> Yeah, like I said, a big mistake, hence always learning. Thank God I am learning from my mistakes and not repeating them. I suspicion the recoat time as listed on the can assumes a second coat of the same finished product. Why recoat with a primer??? Except if you made the mistake I did.


I completely see where your concern is coming from. Still, recoat time is recoat time and the manufacturers likely build in a margin of error as well (if it says six hours to recoat you could probably do it in two with no issues) but I personally prefer to follow manufacturers directions to the letter.

Waiting until Monday will be more than adequate. However, if you _really_ want (need) more reassurance - contact Zinsser directly.

In the future, don't trust any water based primer to cover stains of any kind and use the shellac based primer for the really nasty ones.


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## HQP2005 (Feb 14, 2012)

By the way, Welcome to PT :thumbsup:

You should post an intro in the new members sections.

I am fairly new here myself, and it is great place if your just starting out on your own. :thumbup:
(and if your an old-timer too)

Hope you stick around.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

HQP2005 said:


> This may not make you feel better about your lost time, but at least you recognized what it was at the start.
> 
> I once put 2 coats on a 30x15 cieling (that was seperated by 5 wood beams) trying to cover what I thought was just aged paint before I figured out why it kept turning yellow. Appearently the lady who lived there for the last 40 years was a chain smoker. Had never seen anything like before.
> 
> ...


When my mother-in-law passed away we had to get the property ready to sell. Due to her smoking, the light green walls were really yellow under the pictures - yuck. Had to spray the entire interior with shellac based primer to kill the stains and smell. Worst job I ever had to do but it sure solved the problem (though I walked with a pronounced and consistent veering to the left for about a week afterwards).


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## HQP2005 (Feb 14, 2012)

ProWallGuy said:


> Are you a professional painter?





Workaholic said:


> I was about to ask the same thing.





HQP2005 said:


> By the way, Welcome to PT :thumbsup:
> 
> You should post an intro in the new members sections.
> 
> ...


 
You guys beat me to it.


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## Always Learning (Mar 24, 2012)

25 years ago I worked full time as a painter/wallpaper hanger, but have specialized as a Carpenter since, recently starting my own business in 2012, doing everything to keep the family fed. Years ago I grew tired of 'little ladies' telling me they could paint, and took up Carpentry. I always said most of the professionalism in painting is in the prep and product knowledge, not waving a brush, and now I turn around and have played the fool, in moving forward with poor knowledge.

In my defence, Latex products have come a long way since 25 years ago, hence why I tried the latex primer in the name of new found science. Zinsser makes so many primers you almost cannot help but be confused. I didn't have the time to read a hundred words on 10 different cans and now I am finding the time. Ever been there? Had I read the entire product line close enough, I could have avoided this problem. Live and learn.


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## Always Learning (Mar 24, 2012)

I am not sure if all got the response about my history. Have to run now, but will look into proper use of this site as time permits. Thanks abundantly to all for the time and effort.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

ProWallGuy said:


> Are you a professional painter?


 Trick question?:whistling2:


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