# Extreme bonding primer without sanding?



## gregplus

Did anybody try to use SW Extreme bonding primer & 2 coats of Solo for these kind of doors with varnish without sanding?

This place has about 20 doors and owner is tight on money so I was wondering if this primer will stick well without sanding?

Also would 2 coats of PPG Breaktrough sprayed with FFLP cover it? (without bonding primer)

I was gonna use Dirtex only as a cleaner...


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## Woodco

If hes that tight on money, why not just BIN one coat, and just spray one topcoat of of normalish enamel that you can put a decent build on? I would never skip the sanding though.


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## kmp

I used it on about 10 or 12 mahogany slabs like those a few weeks ago but I sanded them because they were beat up. I always light sand anyway. Never used it before but seems to work well. It is a hybrid oil product and does have a little bit of stain blocking which is a plus.


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## Jmayspaint

The easy answer is no.

According to the specs,

“Glossy surfaces should be sanded dull”

*https://www.sherwin-williams.com/document/PDS/en/035777307922/*


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## Rbriggs82

I'd trust Breakthrough over it without sanding not the extreme bonding primer. 

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## woodcoyote

Like another poster said, the data page suggests sanding.

With those, I usually do a scuff sand with a sanding sponge (drywall version). Medium grit, usually does good.

The sanding sponges for drywall I feel hold up better than anything made for wood. The other stuff gums to easily and doesn't last long at all, and generally runs more money also. So a triple negative. 

Scuff sand + extreme bond = done. 

The bonding primer is good stuff, once dry it really grabs the stuff if prepped right. We use a lot of it as insurance to our jobs.


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## gregplus

*hi*

I did scuff all of them today......... :vs_mad:

Did anybody compare XIM UMA vs Extreme bonding primer from SW?

As I see XIM UMA also does seal surface as well as acts as a primer aside of bonding .... is it really better or not? I never used it.


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## WestCoast99

I actually used Sherwin Williams Extreme Bond Primer yesterday for the first time on ceilings, walls, and some trim on 60 year old oil based paint throughout. Did not sand due to RRP laws. I wanted to try it instead of using my usual coverstain routine because the gases from that stuff are going to shorten my life. I have tried other bonding primers like stix with poor luck as to actual adhesion. 

The extreme bond worked very well and I was impressed. It goes on very thin so you get good spread out of a can ($60 retail cost!). I'm actually very impressed with how well it sticks and how well it lays out. It lays flat better than all the other primers I use. I'll be using it again. 

As to sanding, every paint or primer TDS sheet says to sand glossy surfaces first so that's no surprise. The sheet also said this stuff sticks to glass so that's good press for it. Try it out.


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## finishesbykevyn

gregplus said:


> Did anybody try to use SW Extreme bonding primer & 2 coats of Solo for these kind of doors with varnish without sanding?
> 
> This place has about 20 doors and owner is tight on money so I was wondering if this primer will stick well without sanding?
> 
> Also would 2 coats of PPG Breaktrough sprayed with FFLP cover it? (without bonding primer)
> 
> I was gonna use Dirtex only as a cleaner...


What colour are they going? Breakthrough would probably stick without primer however if going white, I wonder about coverage. I guess spraying would help with coverage, but with flat doors on a repaint, you can bomb those out by hand in like 2 minutes flat. Why mess around with dismantling etc..


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## jacob33

I tested extreme bond against Emerald one time and Emerald alone bonded better after 24 hrs. Emerald seems to bond about as good as anything. A quick scuff sand does not take too long and adds lots of adhesion. Honestly 20 doors if you did 3 minutes of sanding per door that is one hour and would do a lot for adhesion.


Edit: Just saw that you scuff sanded that was a wise decision.


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## futtyos

*Question*



gregplus said:


> I did scuff all of them today......... :vs_mad:
> 
> Did anybody compare XIM UMA vs Extreme bonding primer from SW?
> 
> As I see XIM UMA also does seal surface as well as acts as a primer aside of bonding .... is it really better or not? I never used it.


Why would you get mad just because you did prep work that will help ensure a good job? I thought prep work was more than 50% of painting.

futtyos


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## Mr Smith

Just do a light pole sand with 320 grit. You don't want to cut through the poly coat or you'll get bleed thru. Use a sanding sponge for the edges.

I've never used the extreme bonding primer. Will it work well with old Oak cabinets? The open pores probably cause tannin bleed thru.

I have a job I'm bidding on and might just use Bin per usual. Then I use Aqua coat to fill in the grain of the Oak. Then you prime again.

I'm still looking for a finish coat.


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## futtyos

*sanding sponges*



Mr Smith said:


> Just do a light pole sand with 320 grit. You don't want to cut through the poly coat or you'll get bleed thru. Use a sanding sponge for the edges.
> 
> I've never used the extreme bonding primer. Will it work well with old Oak cabinets? The open pores probably cause tannin bleed thru.
> 
> I have a job I'm bidding on and might just use Bin per usual. Then I use Aqua coat to fill in the grain of the Oak. Then you prime again.
> 
> I'm still looking for a finish coat.


Mr. Smith, don't you think a pole sander would bring a more rigid surface to the doors that might more easily cut through whatever finish is on the door? A rigid backing works well for sanding patching on walls to make them flat and blend in with the surrounding "flat" surface, whereas a softer sanding sponge will allow a spackled patch to retain some of its hump and not sand flat. The reverse would seem to be the case with a door where the surface is hard and a rigid pole sander might burn right through a slight bump and cut through the finish whereas a softer sanding sponge will have more of a tendency to ride over the bump without abrading it as much. Also, a sanding sponge might actually abrade more of the surface because it conforms more to irregular surfaces and might sand more areas that would otherwise be passed over untouched by a more rigid surface. That is why I usually use sanding sponges on doors like this. Here is one of my favs to use in this situation:

*https://www.homedepot.com/p/3M-Pro-Grade-Fine-Angled-Drywall-Sanding-Sponge-30904FPSA/202074119*

Gator makes a line of sanding sponges that have no sandpaper on any edges and usually with a yellow or orange foam pad that is more rigid than most other sanding sponge materials. Sort of in between a regular sponge and a pole sander. I believe that Gator private labels these sponges for Ace Hardware as well. At least that is what it looks like to me when I go to Ace.

*http://gatorfinishing.com/products/hand-sanding/sanding-sponges/premium-sanding-sponges*

futtyos


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## Mr Smith

futtyos said:


> Mr. Smith, don't you think a pole sander would bring a more rigid surface to the doors that might more easily cut through whatever finish is on the door? A rigid backing works well for sanding patching on walls to make them flat and blend in with the surrounding "flat" surface, whereas a softer sanding sponge will allow a spackled patch to retain some of its hump and not sand flat. The reverse would seem to be the case with a door where the surface is hard and a rigid pole sander might burn right through a slight bump and cut through the finish whereas a softer sanding sponge will have more of a tendency to ride over the bump without abrading it as much. Also, a sanding sponge might actually abrade more of the surface because it conforms more to irregular surfaces and might sand more areas that would otherwise be passed over untouched by a more rigid surface. That is why I usually use sanding sponges on doors like this. Here is one of my favs to use in this situation:
> 
> https://www.homedepot.com/p/3M-Pro-Grade-Fine-Angled-Drywall-Sanding-Sponge-30904FPSA/202074119
> 
> Gator makes a line of sanding sponges that have no sandpaper on any edges and usually with a yellow or orange foam pad that is more rigid than most other sanding sponge materials. Sort of in between a regular sponge and a pole sander. I believe that Gator private labels these sponges for Ace Hardware as well. At least that is what it looks like to me when I go to Ace.
> 
> http://gatorfinishing.com/products/hand-sanding/sanding-sponges/premium-sanding-sponges
> 
> futtyos


You are overthinking this. Just use 320 grit and give it a quick sand with a pole sander or hand sander if you want more control. It's just a very light sand to scuff it up. Do not apply any pressure. Use a sanding sponge on the edges. simple

You wanted a quick cheap way and this is it. 

Of course, you can go the power sanding route and get it to be as smooth as glass but now you might have to seal it with BIN and the job doubles in scope.


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## futtyos

*Thoughtless*



Mr Smith said:


> You are overthinking this. Just use 320 grit and give it a quick sand with a pole sander or hand sander if you want more control. It's just a very light sand to scuff it up. Do not apply any pressure. Use a sanding sponge on the edges. simple
> 
> You wanted a quick cheap way and this is it.
> 
> Of course, you can go the power sanding route and get it to be as smooth as glass but now you might have to seal it with BIN and the job doubles in scope.


No overthinking here, actually, there is very little thinking as I have been doing it this way for years after having tried it a number of different ways. I find more control with the sponge sander in hand and these doors have all areas easily reachable, unlike walls and ceilings, where extension poles come in handy.

I'm sure your technique works just fine for you just as mine does for me.

futtyos


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## Ubercorey

I had breakthrough make my varnish peel up on some old cabinets on my test door. I had to pre cut everything with shellac primer first.

I would also consider using stix from Benjamin Moore. It's meant to stick to tile.


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## Ubercorey

Also I've had breakthrough staying through it before so anything that's varnished or wood you're going to want to Prime.

Personally I think priming is better because it creates a smooth even surface and then all you have to do is one coat of your paint sprayed.


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## Ubercorey

Stain, not staying.


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## gregplus

*hi*

Looks like Extreme Bonding Primer did great job even on test area that I did not sand at all. As long as its clean it sticks well. Also its white and so it helps with coverage.

I did have few small fish eyes that I missed, BIN fixed it. I like this product and wish it costs less..


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## Tprice2193

One of the underlying premises of painting is being challenged here. Our not so secret secret to a superior finish is surface preparation. I have tried WB Urethane alkyds on polyurethaned surfaces that were cleaned only with dawn. No scuff sand, no tsp, no tsp substitute. Emerald trim in particular adhered well after 24 hours. Full hardness developed over several days. I considered that a light sand might help but after my first test job I dont think it is necessary. And as @Mr Smith indicated it might be deterimental to open up finish too much. So skip the prep just make sure the surface is clean. Never thought I would say that!


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## AngieM

Woodco said:


> If hes that tight on money, why not just BIN one coat, and just spray one topcoat of of normalish enamel that you can put a decent build on? I would never skip the sanding though.


Shellac is effective for blocking NOT adhesion. I know from experience what will happen. It'll bead up and roll off like water.


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## Woodco

AngieM said:


> Shellac is effective for blocking NOT adhesion. I know from experience what will happen. It'll bead up and roll off like water.


Im gonna have to wholeheartedly disagree with that one. Thats sizzle sticks to anything.


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## gregplus

Woodco said:


> Im gonna have to wholeheartedly disagree with that one. Thats sizzle sticks to anything.


I think the same...:thumbsup:


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## Tprice2193

I have not found anything BIN would not adhere to. This includes polyurethane, bare metal, glass, and formica.


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## CApainter

Tprice2193 said:


> I have not found anything BIN would not adhere to. This includes polyurethane, bare metal, glass, and formica.


I actually use BIN Pigmented Shellac to treat non paintable silicone caulk. A couple of passes from a rattle can and I'm good to go.


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## Tprice2193

Thanks @CApainter...thats a great tip! I will be trying that.


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