# SW or BM? Still trying to decide.



## dubinpainting (Feb 16, 2010)

I just bought the Titan 440. I figured it would be a good investment, especially for the new construction job I have coming up. I went to SW and stocked up on materials. I bought some new ladders and the Titan. I dropped about $2,000.00. They hooked me up with two free five gallon buckets of primer, some brushes, and the Prudy 9" roller frames, the nice ones that the naps come off with one tap. 

I also priced out some things with a sales rep from BM. Unfortunately they where unable to give me any thing for free. I bought about 15 gallons of paint for an interior job. I was trying to get super spec for $20.00 a gallon. All they where able to do is give me three free gallons of Regal select (nice product) But I had to buy all 15 gallons of the product at $40.00 a gallon to get the free gallons. Not really much of a deal. I ended up spending about $100.00 more then I wanted to.

Although I think BM is a nicer product, I still like the customer service and prices I get with SW. I'm still back and forth trying to decide who I want to use. For now it depends on the job. 

Anyone ever try that Cornando line from BM? They said they could give me that at $18 a gallon but I don't know how well it performs.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

Why do you have to decide? We use SW and a local chain, great service at both and a wider selection of products. For example, we were using a Devoe 0 VOC until Rob just tried the new Promar 200 0 VOC, he liked being able to compare the two and choose.


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## dubinpainting (Feb 16, 2010)

RCP said:


> Why do you have to decide? We use SW and a local chain, great service at both and a wider selection of products. For example, we were using a Devoe 0 VOC until Rob just tried the new Promar 200 0 VOC, he liked being able to compare the two and choose.


Well I still think BM is a better product, but I get better service and rates with SW, so I'm constantly going back and forth. I'm trying to get a better deal with BM but if there unwilling to help me out then they just made the decision for me.


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## JoseyWales (Jan 8, 2011)

dubinpainting said:


> I just bought the Titan 440. I figured it would be a good investment, especially for the new construction job I have coming up. I went to SW and stocked up on materials. I bought some new ladders and the Titan. I dropped about $2,000.00. They hooked me up with two free five gallon buckets of primer, some brushes, and the Prudy 9" roller frames, the nice ones that the naps come off with one tap.
> 
> I also priced out some things with a sales rep from BM. Unfortunately they where unable to give me any thing for free. I bought about 15 gallons of paint for an interior job. I was trying to get super spec for $20.00 a gallon. All they where able to do is give me three free gallons of Regal select (nice product) But I had to buy all 15 gallons of the product at $40.00 a gallon to get the free gallons. Not really much of a deal. I ended up spending about $100.00 more then I wanted to.
> 
> ...


Congrats on the new rig...The Titan 440 will make you money...You should invest in a whip hose as well...It will make your spraying a little easier.

S Spec is just a contractor line of paint which I rarely use on walls unless I get a garage to paint or a cheap apartment job..I still use it on ceilings..BM stores in my area all charge the same for paint...That blatant collusion {company mandate} is something that keeps the prices artificially higher...Every other paint store allows for healthy competition but not BM...I think it hurts them actually.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

dubinpainting said:


> Well I still think BM is a better product, but I get better service and rates with SW, so I'm constantly going back and forth. I'm trying to get a better deal with BM but if there unwilling to help me out then they just made the decision for me.


So with the 3 free gallons, you paid $32/gal for Regal Select. Thats pretty good :yes:

Super Spec flat is around $20/gal +/- depending on your market. 

I havent tried Coronado yet. Id like to, but as of now we have to order it separately from our BM orders. Doesnt seem like a big deal, but it sort of is. The problem for me is, if I bring in just a few lines, its harder to re-order and meet the minimum required gallons. So if I run out of a particular tint base, im stuck ordering an entire pallet to fill one SKU.


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

I think it is wrong to equate customer service with giving freebies,
lowering prices and the like. 
We covered this so many times before.

If you don't match somebody's price or paint all closets for free
your customer service is still good.
You did say you prefer the products


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

NCPaint1 said:


> So with the 3 free gallons, you paid $32/gal for Regal Select. Thats pretty good :yes:
> 
> I am paying more than than $32/gal. for the regular Regal Egg in a custom color, and we have been buying at the same location since 1958, now a local chain that features BM. They don't "give" me anything. The SW rep is always trying to give me something and take me out for lunch-I think he's sweet on me. It's always the guy who's _trying_ to sell you any more that will promise you the world. The guy who's already selling you gets complacent and bangs you over the head. Years ago your primary supplier took good care of you and would make sure he kept you in the store, where I buy they don't seem to give a sh!t and I've been paying all bills long before monthly invoices go out for my entire career(check-no credit card). I needed some Best Liebco 7" x 3/4" lambswool sleeves. It's not something they stock, but they do carry Liebco products. I didn't really want the whole box of 12, at least not right now. I would probably buy them eventually. They would not order the box and only sell me 6 and put the rest on the shelf. I had to buy the entire box if I wanted them. I could understand it if I never go in the store, but I have a long consistent history there-that's the policy and they just don't care. It's a very take it or leave it mentality, which I can't understand because they have plenty of competition in the area. NC-you've gotta open a store in my area!!!!!


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

George Z said:


> I think it is wrong to equate customer service with giving freebies,
> lowering prices and the like.
> We covered this so many times before.
> 
> ...


 I agree George, but in this day and age if as a supplier you are not going to offer very competitive pricing you need to step it up with the customer service. I also agree that "freebies" don't necessarily = customer service. I don't care if my supplier is the least expensive(as long as he's in the ballpark), I am looking for the customer service and to get treated like I matter when I come in the store. Once in a while kiss me like we just started dating, rather than like we've been married for 35 years


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Cliff, im the same way. I order 2050 tape for a few guys. They dont buy cases....so I put what they dont buy on the shelf to sell. 

I have found myself too having the "take it or leave it" mentality. No matter what I give away, or discount, it doesnt matter. Someone will always be there to give more, or undercut me. 

Good communication is key. Talk to the owner/manager. Tell them whats happening ( unless you already did ) If guys dont tell me that the competition is breathing down their neck, how am I supposed to know? Im honest with people. Tell me what they're offering, and I'll tell you if thats a good deal or not. If pricing is the problem, i'll do what I can to be competitive....sometimes I just cant  it happens. Ive said before that many of my customers are friends too. We hang out, go for dinner with the fam's, kids play together, etc etc. But we keep business separate. They have to do whats best for their business and so do I, no hard feelings.


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## dubinpainting (Feb 16, 2010)

CliffK said:


> I agree George, but in this day and age if as a supplier you are not going to offer very competitive pricing you need to step it up with the customer service. I also agree that "freebies" don't necessarily = customer service. I don't care if my supplier is the least expensive(as long as he's in the ballpark), I am looking for the customer service and to get treated like I matter when I come in the store. Once in a while kiss me like we just started dating, rather than like we've been married for 35 years


Yes I totally agree, customer service should be first and foremost. That's one of the main reasons why I'm considering SW over BM. I was very surprised when the BM sales rep told me that they don't measure the job or help you figure out how much paint you need.(not that I can't do this myself, but it helps) All they do is recommend a product. The SW sales rep will show up to any job, help you measure it, tell you exactly how much paint you need and will recommend a product. It just seems they are more willing to go the extra mile to help you out!


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

We dont have "sales" reps here. We have a store rep. They basically help with product spec's, and handle things involving BM and the store. They will help on larger jobs, but I think they just dont have the personnel that SW has to help out contractors more....I wish they did. Most of that responsibility falls on us the stores.


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

NCPaint1 said:


> Cliff, im the same way. I order 2050 tape for a few guys. They dont buy cases....so I put what they dont buy on the shelf to sell.
> 
> I have found myself too having the "take it or leave it" mentality. No matter what I give away, or discount, it doesnt matter. Someone will always be there to give more, or undercut me.
> 
> Good communication is key. Talk to the owner/manager. Tell them whats happening ( unless you already did ) If guys dont tell me that the competition is breathing down their neck, how am I supposed to know? Im honest with people. Tell me what they're offering, and I'll tell you if thats a good deal or not. If pricing is the problem, i'll do what I can to be competitive....sometimes I just cant  it happens. Ive said before that many of my customers are friends too. We hang out, go for dinner with the fam's, kids play together, etc etc. But we keep business separate. They have to do whats best for their business and so do I, no hard feelings.


Thanks for the input NC, I don't want to highjack the SW vs. BM thread.
I know it's the same on both sides of the counter, the customer is always pushing to see _how low_ _will you go._ I guess I just miss the days of the owner/operator or even a manager that has more of a vested interest. The newer corporate mentality and me aren't a great fit. We used to do the things you describe-dinner, drinks etc. with the the owner of the store(s). We were friends and kept the business separate. They made it obvious that they appreciated the business. We were happy being stroked a little and didn't mind paying a few bucks extra for it because they took care of us when we needed them. In return they NEVER had to chase or even ask us for money. We had a "relationship". Now they change managers and counter people all the time to keep everyone honest and keep the pressure on. They shift them around from location to location. There is no continuity. Now I'll walk out with a $500 order and add a few sheets of 36 grit for a particular project-not something I buy in quantity. He'll ask me how many sheets I've got, I'll tell him 4 and then he'll proceed to count it to make sure I'm telling the truth and add it to the $500 bill. I'm NEVER looking for something for nothing, I just hate the nickel and dime mentality...and they wonder why they've got guys going down the street to save 65 cents/gal.
I think as business owners we all have to assume the competition is always breathing down our necks anymore-it's a shame, but I think it's a fact of life these days. While I am painting an interior I go to the truck and someone has put a painting flyer in the lady's door while they can see there is already paint work going on. It's just the new world in which we live-relationships in many cases, unfortunately, just don't seem to be as important as they once were.


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## ltd (Nov 18, 2010)

its simple go with price :yes: do you think your clientele would know the difference between s/w or b/m .i tell my clients that a will use a top quality s/w paint ,and i do . some might say my clients demand b/m well ok ,give it to them.but generally speaking they dont care ,you have to run you business that's most profitable to you .


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

ltd said:


> its simple go with price :yes: do you think your clientele would know the difference between s/w or b/m .i tell my clients that a will use a top quality s/w paint ,and i do . some might say my clients demand b/m well ok ,give it to them.but generally speaking they dont care ,you have to run you business that's most profitable to you .


This is the problem right here. Get whatever's the cheapest, not get whats best for the job.


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## ltd (Nov 18, 2010)

ncpaint b/m is good paint :yes: ,but are you saying s/w is not good paint?


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

ltd said:


> ncpaint b/m is good paint :yes: ,but are you saying s/w is not good paint?


No, im saying that letting price make the decision is the problem.


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## dubinpainting (Feb 16, 2010)

NCPaint1 said:


> No, im saying that letting price make the decision is the problem.


Well like I said before my main contributing factor is about customer service mostly.


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## TheRogueBristle (Mar 19, 2010)

It sounds like as a painter, you know what the better product is. For me, ethics makes the decision easy. I give the customer the product that I feel is better. 

I also think it says something that SW has to sweeten the deal with "freebies" and a$$-kissing. I don't want to be pestered at home by some kid, as I was, because I stopped in at a new location in a pinch to grab some tape. 

Alos, the percentage profit to be gained from these kickbacks, imo, ultimately become negligible when you consider that the quality of the product is what builds reputation and allows for appropriate pricing. 

I don't know, for me I can't bring myself to use something I like less so that I can save a few hundred bucks. I always figure it comes back to me in the end and I don't have to sweat finding a deal all the time.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

My main thing is product first. I will stand in a long line for it like I did for the iphone. I cant shop at one place for the right product for the job. Unfortunately that takes me all over town and then next few towns over to get what I need. I'm fine with that. 

I think Sherwin Williams completely alienated me from shopping at their stores because of what they do not stock. If you have to order it for me - no thanks I'll order it myself. SW has brought in a few items I use regularly the past couple years but turns out -- those are the few items I buy from there.

Plus, I never cared for playing the Whats my price of the day game.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

JP said:


> Plus, I never cared for playing the Whats my price of the day game.


 And we have a winner.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> And we have a winner.


I know it a popular game. I hear about it locally and on PT, other forums. Was just talking to a paint contractor the day before I posted that about their pricing methods. He did not like that either.

What I like about HD for example for the few items I buy there is I know what I am paying. Plain and simple. I use my iphone to take pics of the price tags with the product so I know for reference. 

I think this is also worth mentioning.... 

I used the Purdy White China brushes for stain and sealer coats. HD used to carry them here but now they are only sold at SW. The process in finding that out thinking HD was simply sold out was a lengthy one. Many trips to HD thinking I am going to be getting paint and brushes but leave with just paint. So... I just switched to Glidden and use the white china brushes from there now because they carry the Wooster stuff I use often plus paints. Thats just one example.


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## Wood511 (Dec 13, 2010)

Where I live, you have to use both. 

I was looking for a new whiz weenie yesterday and was in BM picking up some stuff. They didn't have it so I had to go down the street to SW and pick it up. And so it goes...

Some SW paint is good for certain tasks and some BM paint works better for others. I am glad I don't have to make a choice between the two. I still have to order lots of stuff online because neither of them carry it.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Dubin, you should find what combination of attributes adds the most value for your business and deal mainly with that company. 

Price of the day? Don't you guys meet with reps or store managers and get that figured out? If you deal with SW your price should be the same no matter which store you go to. If not, your rep, store manager (or you) is dropping the ball.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

bikerboy said:


> Dubin, you should find what combination of attributes adds the most value for your business and deal mainly with that company.
> 
> Price of the day? Don't you guys meet with reps or store managers and get that figured out? If you deal with SW your price should be the same no matter which store you go to. If not, your rep, store manager (or you) is dropping the ball.


Sure do. That is the big hassle with it. Prices are suppose to be in the system. If you bring it to their attention - they will correct it but that was always an on going hassle that I want no part of. I would have it corrected, then told its corrected, then find on the next invoice its the wrong amount again. So incredibly fed up with that BS> 

The PC I recently spoke to had over $1,000 corrected on a single invoice. Not talking change here. I could have filled in the blanks when he was telling me his story or could have told the story verbatim as he told it. 2 different stores


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