# Coloured Lacquer? (long)



## 12inchsash (Oct 9, 2008)

Is there any place in the world besides my relatively new home city that still sprays this on new trim?

Quick back story,<--(quick is a relative term:yes
I had to shut down my company and move across the continent because the wife got transferred with her work.She makes double my income so i didn't have much choice. 
I have been working for a big builder who builds very high end homes for the last three years.We are the only trade (which consists of 5 of us) who work directly for the builder and the only thing we paint are the 6-7000 square foot multimillion dollar homes.We ONLY get the super fussy customers and the 5 of us only paint about 9-10 houses a year.

They pay us all very well (by the hour) and 70-90 k a year is pretty easy with minimal overtime and the large profit sharing.It is very nice to not have to chase money and work,hire/fire and babysit painters.Not to mention the lack of stress i have working for someone else.We are rarely pushed for time and the supervisor basically just picks up the paint,schedules and leaves the jobs to us because almost all of us have more experience than he does.Very relaxed....Sounds great right?

Well it is,EXCEPT for the product we use.This whole city uses colored lacquer for trim,crown features,built-ins,etc etc.

The product looks like glass when we are done.We actually have to use a trouble light on every piece of trim after multiple lacquer primes and reds(glazing putty) to make sure that not one defect can be seen in any light.It's car paint basically.It shows everything.

Now i am fine with making the trim look 100% in a house where the HO spent millions of dollars but this product is not made for these applications.
The amount of service that goes into this trim we paint is mind boggling.Every single 45 or butt joint cracks within a year.Every wood window or transom we spray with lacquer fails. Lacquer does not move,it does not breath and is one hell of brittle.The worst part is the poison we have to breath every day especially with the system they use to paint the house.Every painter preps and paints his own stuff.We do have airless but mostly use HPLV for the lacquer which means a Ton of overspray cloud ..every...day.. for a month ..every... house.

So here i am after 3 years of hammering on this company to switch to a latex product, still fighting.Lacquer is the only thing most of these guys know(2 of them 20 years) and have every ignorant excuse in the book not to switch to latex.We are so far behind the curve when we should be ahead of it.I am also so far out of the loop when it comes to new latex products and one of the reasons i joined this forum.

I am making progress though.We just purchased our first airless for latex and they let me paint about 60 wood windows in the last house we did ,which turned out great.They looked just like lacquer minus a tiny bit of orange peel which lacquer does not have.(i heard about that of course)

Anyway, I'm sorry for the long rant/post but would love some ammo to help me with the conversion fight. I will be sending a few of the guys i work with to this site just so they can see just how far into the twilight zone they live.

1.Does anyone still use colored lacquer out there?
2.Are there latex products that you can spray on built-ins (walls of shelves and shoe/boot boxes/toy boxes) etc that will last?I'm thinking an industrial acrylic enamel.
3.Does 4 weeks per house sound like an excessive amount of time (for 5 foreman painters) to be doing wood work?It does to me.Granted ,they are big houses and there is a lot of wood but I think we could cut that time in half with latex.

If you made it through my dribble and take the time to post/help..thank you in advance.


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## Mantis (Aug 4, 2008)

We have 1 builder which we still use pigmented lacquer for. He builds high end homes (well, around here anyway), and only builds about a couple per year. I generally dedicate 4 men to his homes and we're usually out of his average 5,000sq foot home after 4 weeks. Though, I dont spray with an HVLP, we use a pressure pot to apply the lacquer. He is the only one we use lacquer for. Everyone else is latex. I generally shoot SW's Pro Classic semi for new homes.


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## CobraCDN (Jan 8, 2008)

Only things I lacquer anymore is wood railings (interior) and cabinets. Cabinets are done in the shop here... railings I spray after installation and I always use the airless. As you point out the HVLP puts to much into the air.

Painted Frames, casings and base I use semi gloss latex. It all comes pre-primed here, so we fill and dap and spray 2 coats of finish. Base I put one pre-finishcoat on in the shop, then brush it after it's installed and filled/daped.

Up here in Alberta Canada, I use Cloverdales Super II semi-gloss Latex. The others can suggest products in the States for you. I think Cloverdale does serve Washington.

Cheers


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## 12inchsash (Oct 9, 2008)

CobraCDN said:


> Only things I lacquer anymore is wood railings (interior) and cabinets. Cabinets are done in the shop here... railings I spray after installation and I always use the airless. As you point out the HVLP puts to much into the air.
> 
> Painted Frames, casings and base I use semi gloss latex. It all comes pre-primed here, so we fill and dap and spray 2 coats of finish. Base I put one pre-finishcoat on in the shop, then brush it after it's installed and filled/daped.
> 
> ...


 I see your in Alberta! I work for Mr. Al Morrison. and I am in Canada. It's good to know that not everyone in this province uses lacquer for everything.
I do not have a problem using lacquer on stained material such as cabinets and railings.Even doors.
But anything with joints that can shift or is susceptible to moisture..well,...Lacquer sucks .


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Like painting a car you have to get the bondo out and the red filler, not fun, at least it last a long time once it's done. Good for HO bad for every painter that comes after.


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

lifes too short to breathe in that stuff every day.

the builders that insist that you use it probably wouldnt let their dog into the house with those fumes in there


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## woodtradesman (Sep 22, 2008)

I feel you, I am not a fan of lacquer my self and I am not crazy about solvent based coatings in general. One thing you should try is Target Coatings Waterborne lacquer. technically its not a lacquer but it is a water based product that was engineered to behave like lacquer. 

I believe Target Coatings have a forum and I hear the staff and owner are extremely helpful, maybe you should give their products a try.


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## woodtradesman (Sep 22, 2008)

found the link to their forum, someone should be able to help you if you post over there.

http://www.targetcoatings.com/forum/

by the way their water based lacquer is called "Oxford Ultima Spray Lacquer-USL". They also have other types of tintable clear waterborne top coats.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Is that just another word the syrenated paints they have had out for a few years already?


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Is that just another word for the syrenated paints they have had out for a few years already?


missed a word.


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## 12inchsash (Oct 9, 2008)

The builder has been talking about going to a latex Lacquer for a while but i don't think it's going to happen.A couple guys in the crew have only ever painted with lacquer and have become very comfortable with their methods.
Most of them have only ever sprayed with the conventional system and everyone figured spraying is spraying right? They all dove right in with the airless and had runs,spits,flashing,touching wet frames ,blah blah.
So all i hear now ,is this latex thing is garbage.

Like I said, I find Lacquer awful for most of the things we paint.It looks nice but EVERY joint cracks within a year.A builder who sell houses like they do should be on the leading edge.The could even jump on the "Going Green" bandwagon for marketing.

I came to the conclusion that I'm fighting a losing battle though.Time to suck it up(Literally).The red tape is just to thick.

Thanks all.


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## woodtradesman (Sep 22, 2008)

So you gonna bail out before the fumes re-wire your brain right? Oh wait! you said 70-90k a years? maybe I should put away the table saw and pick a sprayer huh?


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

yes, you'll start out at the top. it will be great, like drinking much vodka.


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## 12inchsash (Oct 9, 2008)

woodtradesman said:


> So you gonna bail out before the fumes re-wire your brain right? Oh wait! you said 70-90k a years? maybe I should put away the table saw and pick a sprayer huh?


I think other things will re-wire my brain well before lacquer...like my wife.

. I wear my respirator, but it's no fun to wear all day.

My biggest roadblock is teaching old dogs new tricks.

The money sounds fun being an employee but where i live,a starter home is 400k.


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## Major Hal (May 1, 2009)

honestly, Breenwood Stays Clear is a decent water based product that is extremely durable (they use it on floors), and looks pretty good (not as good as lacquer) but It's amazing on trim and doesn't crack as easily on joints as lacquer.


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## PeteL (Apr 27, 2009)

You wanna cut yer time in half, why?


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