# PPG Breakthrough.



## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

We are repainting trim on 23 storey condo building. 
We are using Breakthrough in black over existing white.
So far we love the product, mostly for it's adhession.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

How are you applying it? Spraying, I am assuming.


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## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

Are you using a custom mixed black or the factory tinted wrought iron black?


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

Their pre-mixed black.
Brush and roll, it's a 7-8 year old high end condo building.
Occupied with existing wallpaper that stays.

We tested it on door frames and the elevator frames (some sleek & tough enamel).
Not an official adhession test but a finger nail scratch test (female fingernails). 

Can't upload the video but a short sample on our facebook here

It also seems very workable with good open time.


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

as every one knows we love breakthrough

Occupied office hollow metal frames , warehouse doors, cabinets, furniture, signs, even speed bumps in the parking lot


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

Repaint Florida said:


> as every one knows we love breakthrough
> 
> Occupied office hollow metal frames , warehouse doors, cabinets, furniture, signs, even speed bumps in the parking lot


I read and watched quite a bit of your experience with it actually. This is a building we don't want any coating faillure in.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I thought most guys were spraying it. If brushing is great as well, we will need to experiment more with it.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

I haven't had a problem brushing it either. :no:

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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

I have only used it once on some exterior doors. It looked great on 2 of the doors and so, so on the 3rd. I brushed. One issue that I did have is that I used Bin to spot prime a couple of areas, and when I applied the Breaktrough I got a crackle effect. Anyody else have this issue. I was painting a dark maroon color.


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## bbair (Nov 18, 2012)

You gotta move fast if you're gonna brush it. Not the best to work with, but it's nice that you can.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Breakthrough is the cats meow. :yes:


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## Paint Chip (Dec 25, 2013)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Breakthrough is the cats meow. :yes:



What kind of prep? Primer or straight breakthrough?


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Paint Chip said:


> What kind of prep? Primer or straight breakthrough?


Straight breakthrough. An hour after painting the first coat I dug my nails in as hard as I could and tried scratching it off, didn't even make a mark. Pretty amazing stuff. 

Awesome finish too..


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Pete the Painter said:


> I have only used it once on some exterior doors. It looked great on 2 of the doors and so, so on the 3rd. I brushed. One issue that I did have is that I used Bin to spot prime a couple of areas, and when I applied the Breaktrough I got a crackle effect. Anyody else have this issue. I was painting a dark maroon color.



Pete 

Yes I used BM 046 primer under the black finish and got crackle. I was told the gennex colorants might be too soft. I haven't had any crackle using BIN ADVANCED , smart prime or Ppg seal grip under it. 
We have done some brush and roll with it. Mostly spray though. I should probably try to brush it more to get more confidence in that approach. We didn't have good luck with really short nap mohair covers as it dried so fast and left a rough texture from the popped air bubbles. Had better luck back brushing really quickly. Definitely not the workability of advance.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Does it spray more like paint or a wb lacquer?

I am suprised it can be used on cabinets without priming to stop tannin bleed.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

DeanV said:


> Does it spray more like paint or a wb lacquer?
> 
> I am suprised it can be used on cabinets without priming to stop tannin bleed.



More like paint to me. 
I think if the existing cabinet finish is in pretty good shape, it will do the job of stain blocking. 

This last set I did was the first time I had used it on a whole set without priming, didn't have any bleed problems.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

DeanV said:


> Does it spray more like paint or a wb lacquer?
> 
> I am suprised it can be used on cabinets without priming to stop tannin bleed.


Definitely like paint. I had a little problem with some tannin bleed where the boxes jointed and I sanded down a little too far. Saw it after the first coat and hit those spots with some spray coverstain and it was good to go. 

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## Jazz_Painter (Feb 22, 2015)

Would anyone know if the breakthrough we get in Canada is different than the one in the US? Although I really like this product, I can't say it's been perfectly resistant to scratch test I did. I used it on some metallic stair cases that had been preprimed with red oxyde primer in the shop. It does a good job, but I'm not 100% confident in it yet for the long term. It's rated to be applied on factory concrete floors on which lifts circulate. I've used it on small elevator doors, it was hard to make a nice finish because of the open time and all that brushing involved. Still not 100% satisfied by the adhesion I've had with the product. I did good prep too making sure my metal was degreased first then washed with acetone.

I have a feeling that what we get here isn't as performant as what you guys get, although it's still a good product.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

There are at least two different versions of Breakthrough. A low VOC version (less than 50 I think) and the regular version (around 250) 
I think most of us are using the 250.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

DeanV said:


> Does it spray more like paint or a wb lacquer?
> 
> I am suprised it can be used on cabinets without priming to stop tannin bleed.



RPF says they prime for bleed when using white base colors but not when using darker colors so I've followed that protocol.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Jmayspaint said:


> There are at least two different versions of Breakthrough. A low VOC version (less than 50 I think) and the regular version (around 250)
> I think most of us are using the 250.


Now that's interesting. The Breakthrough I get is the <50 g/l. If some here are getting the <250 g/l, that might account for the difference of opinion on the brushing and/or rolling characteristics. My experience was similar to Damon's, I rolled some on with a Whizz foam roller and it left a pebbled texture. Ended up rolling it on and laying it off with a brush. 

So who's getting the 50 g/l and who is getting the 250 g/l?


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

slinger58 said:


> Now that's interesting. The Breakthrough I get is the <50 g/l. If some here are getting the <250 g/l, that might account for the difference of opinion on the brushing and/or rolling characteristics. My experience was similar to Damon's, I rolled some on with a Whizz foam roller and it left a pebbled texture. Ended up rolling it on and laying it off with a brush.
> 
> 
> 
> So who's getting the 50 g/l and who is getting the 250 g/l?



Last time this came up everyone who responded was using the 250, Damon as well IIRC. 

To me the open time seems short. Though it does have good leveling qualities, it's easy to overwork it and end up with brush strokes or bad stipple. 

I have the best luck with short nap microfiber mini rollers. Get it on quickly and leave it alone. 

I could imagine the 50 being even quicker, that's usually how it works.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I tend to not use extenders in paint, but anyone try XIM extender in Breakthrough?


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

DeanV said:


> I tend to not use extenders in paint, but anyone try XIM extender in Breakthrough?


Yes., but I prefer Floetrol for Breakthrough.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Ppg tech support said not to use extender in breakthrough but I wouldn't be afraid to in anything except maybe floors.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

One Miller here carries the 50 g/l the rest carry the 250 g/L. Strange but true.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Damon T said:


> One Miller here carries the 50 g/l the rest carry the 250 g/L. Strange but true.


I'm gonna have to ask about this 50 g/l vs. 250 g/l next time I'm in PPG. It is strange .

Speaking of extenders, the quart of Floetrol I bought last week says on the label, "manufactured by PPG Architectural Coatings".


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## GoTime (Jul 2, 2013)

Going to be trying it for the first time myself tomorrow. Was looking at the can today, and mine is V57 - 150g/L. Maybe OH has different VOC requirements?

ETA: Yep, we do https://www.sherwin-williams.com/home-builders/specifications/progs-and-specs/


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

GoTime said:


> Going to be trying it for the first time myself tomorrow. Was looking at the can today, and mine is V57 - 150g/L. Maybe OH has different VOC requirements?
> 
> ETA: Yep, we do https://www.sherwin-williams.com/home-builders/specifications/progs-and-specs/


So we have 50 gl, 150 gl and 250gl. 

Lemme ask you this, is everyone else's Breakthrough so thick you almost need to scoop it out of the bucket? Looks like roughly the same viscosity as block filler or thinned DW compound? Pic to follow.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Like soft ice cream?

In the pic, I just dunked the stir stick and let it flow back into the bucket.
It lays on top like cake frosting.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

slinger58 said:


> Like soft ice cream?
> 
> In the pic, I just dunked the stir stick and let it flow back into the bucket.
> It lays on top like cake frosting.


Nope mine was the exact opposite and super thin.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Nope mine was the exact opposite and super thin.


Seriously ? WTH. I've been through 4 gallons now and everyone was as thick as block filler.


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Nope mine was the exact opposite and super thin.


Same here. Not super thin though.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

slinger58 said:


> Seriously ? WTH. I've been through 4 gallons now and everyone was as thick as block filler.



Never seen a gallon that thick. Could be related the VOC content I guess. 
All the Breakthrough I've used has been on the thinner side.


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## The Cutting Edge (May 25, 2014)

The Breakthrough I used was way thinner than that as well. By the time I tried to add water to it to extend the dry time it was just ridiculous. Way too thin for my liking.
I know repaint Florida goes through alot of this stuff. Wander if his are all consistent.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

I'm gonna get to the bottom of this (no pun intended). Different viscosities for the same paint? I'll talk to to the PPG store manager next time I'm in. May have to call PPG or something. This is absolutely mystifying me!


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

slinger58 said:


> I'm gonna get to the bottom of this (no pun intended). Different viscosities for the same paint? I'll talk to to the PPG store manager next time I'm in. May have to call PPG or something. This is absolutely mystifying me!



Me too. I checked the viscosity listings on the respective MSDS's and they're the same. Seems like it about has to be a batch irregularity. 

Of course, I don't know that we've heard from anyone else that has for sure used the 50.


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

something is definitely wrong 

i've used tons of Breakthrough and never seem it that thick


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Quality control issues? I think so! Aliens did it!


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

A have a couple questions. I have a small cabinet, multi-piece crown, and a 6 panel door to do in a dark gray color in a powder room. Would this be a good trial run on Breakthrough for someone that has not used it before? Only the cabinet doors will be sprayed. Everything else will be done by hand.

Also, I am pricing out some floors to be painted at a church childrens wing (this is to be as a temporary fix since the carpet is very stained and needs to be replaced, but a church remodel/expansion is a few years down the road). Would break through work for this instead of epoxy on cement? It would be more cost effective for sure, but how would it hold up in hallways and youth rooms? Since it is design for forklift traffic, it seems like a decent option.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

That's a good place to try it. I've used it in a dark gray on my deck and two tall book shelves in my office which came out awesome. 

Darker colors cover way better in it that white. When brushing I use a Corona Ryan and try to do light thin coats otherwise it will run like crazy on you even with the short open time. 

Never tried it on a floor but I don't see why it wouldn't work well.

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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Dean the 6 panel door will need to be done quickly and will probably not flow out as well as say Advance. However give it a shot and let us know how it goes.


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## 804 Paint (Jan 31, 2014)

Jmayspaint said:


> There are at least two different versions of Breakthrough. A low VOC version (less than 50 I think) and the regular version (around 250)
> I think most of us are using the 250.


Eff. This is my second time using BT and I noticed it wasn't flowing as well as the first. Found this thread and then noticed the new can says low VOC. Or "EcoLogic" or something like that… <150. The other can said nothing of the sort. So I called PPG up and said hey, can I get me some o' that VOC-rich goodness like before? NOPE. They only have one version…or that's what they're telling me. I made the guy ask the manager to double-check. 

If you guys are still getting the "regular" version it might not be for long.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

804 Paint said:


> Eff. This is my second time using BT and I noticed it wasn't flowing as well as the first. Found this thread and then noticed the new can says low VOC. Or "EcoLogic" or something like that… <150. The other can said nothing of the sort. So I called PPG up and said hey, can I get me some o' that VOC-rich goodness like before? NOPE. They only have one version…or that's what they're telling me. I made the guy ask the manager to double-check.
> 
> If you guys are still getting the "regular" version it might not be for long.


Very interesting post. I've been waiting 2 weeks for my PPG store to have any BT at all. Never in my 35+ years in this business have I had a major supplier not have a simple white base of one of their best products for 2 weeks. This in the middle of a 60 door cabinet job. 

In this same thread I mentioned the thickness of the BT I've been getting, it was as thick as blockfiller. Finally got 2 more gallons today that the PPG store here was able to have shipped from Orlando. Gonna be interesting to pop the top on those in the morning. :yes:


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

804 Paint said:


> Eff. This is my second time using BT and I noticed it wasn't flowing as well as the first. Found this thread and then noticed the new can says low VOC. Or "EcoLogic" or something like that… <150.
> ...
> If you guys are still getting the "regular" version it might not be for long.


804, are you located somewhere like Canada or California, places that are generally ahead of the curve re: environmental regs?


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## 804 Paint (Jan 31, 2014)

I paint paint said:


> 804, are you located somewhere like Canada or California, places that are generally ahead of the curve re: environmental regs?



Richmond, VA!


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

slinger58 said:


> Very interesting post. I've been waiting 2 weeks for my PPG store to have any BT at all. Never in my 35+ years in this business have I had a major supplier not have a simple white base of one of their best products for 2 weeks. This in the middle of a 60 door cabinet job.
> 
> In this same thread I mentioned the thickness of the BT I've been getting, it was as thick as blockfiller. Finally got 2 more gallons today that the PPG store here was able to have shipped from Orlando. Gonna be interesting to pop the top on those in the morning. :yes:


Orlando????? don't take all my stach i have 3 cabinet jobs when i get back from Clearwater Beach


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

804 Paint said:


> Richmond, VA!


Ahh … so your name's the area code … now I see.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Repaint Florida said:


> Orlando????? don't take all my stach i have 3 cabinet jobs when i get back from Clearwater Beach


Hell, I figure you're the reason I couldn't get a measly couple of gallons to finish a job. :wallbash:


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Voc laws very from state to state. If they can't get the "old" version it is because they are in a voc restricted area. Even asking them to get it for you is actually a violation of federal law. As if anyone cares.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

This was breakthrough in satin finish. It is a color called mid summers dream by ppg. As a whole this is a very good product. We sprayed it in a very cold garage and it did start sagging immediately. But once we brought it inside to spray the second coat it sprayed out blue beautifully and is very very hard. It is quite difficult to even scratch the surface with the fingernail. We only scuff sanded and laid on two coats.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Our first attempt with this product. Kitchen cabinets next week


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Thanks Repaint.
Primarily because of reading your input has persuaded us to try it.


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## 804 Paint (Jan 31, 2014)

Looks great Zoomer. 

How do you guys handle using BT in larger areas that require cutting prior to the main area being brushed or rolled? It sets up SO fast I'm thinking cutting as you go would be a mistake. How badly does it flash (satin) if you let the cut dry first?




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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

Zoomer said:


> Thanks Repaint.
> Primarily because of reading your input has persuaded us to try it.


That you :thumbsup: means a lot you giving credit

hey it works for me & i've gotten to the point that that's all i want to do is cabinets & furniture

amazing the difference in price & how a HO treats you doing cabinets 

you can price a room for $200 and your "overpriced" by $125.00

you can charge $3,000 to paint cabinets & your thanked & recommended :notworthy:

wow ... how time has changed


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

804 Paint said:


> Looks great Zoomer.
> 
> How do you guys handle using BT in larger areas that require cutting prior to the main area being brushed or rolled? It sets up SO fast I'm thinking cutting as you go would be a mistake. How badly does it flash (satin) if you let the cut dry first?
> 
> ...


I noticed the satin flashed on the tops of the dresser and nightstands on part of the first coat. We increased the pressure and moved the gun slightly more away from surface. No more flashing.


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## 804 Paint (Jan 31, 2014)

Zoomer said:


> I noticed the satin flashed on the tops of the dresser and nightstands on part of the first coat. We increased the pressure and moved the gun slightly more away from surface. No more flashing.


You're talking about spraying…I'm talking where spraying isn't possible. When my order of BT comes in I'll be painting this camper. It's all prepped and ready for paint (well I still need to sand the primer and clean up). See that laminate panel with the metal edging atop and the thermostat in the center? There are a bunch of those to paint and some more complicated stretches with several vents, lights, hinges in the way. 

I'm worried that if I cut and then brush or roll out the rest right away, the cut areas will rope up when I go back into them. I'm also worried that the cut areas will flash if I let them dry first before I hit them. 

That metal edging is tricky to cut because it's not a uniform distance away from the laminate during it's entire span. In some areas it's tight against, in some areas there's a gap so you need to work your brush just under or it looks like you missed a spot. The point is, you have to work a bit too slowly just to cut a little bit and brush it out, especially with the huge panels like you see on the left.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

You bring up a very good point. Not having brushed it yet I would be concerned as well. I would recommend that you consult with repaint Florida who seems to have this product dialed in quite well


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Your private message does not seem to be coming through. How can I help you with your questions


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## 804 Paint (Jan 31, 2014)

Here's the new face of Breakthrough. According to the rep, this will replace ALL versions of BT except the 250g VOC which you can only get in certain areas. It has 51g/VOCs per liter and an added extender to it. 










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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

804 Paint said:


> Here's the new face of Breakthrough. According to the rep, this will replace ALL versions of BT except the 250g VOC which you can only get in certain areas. It has 51g/VOCs per liter and an added extender to it.
> 
> View attachment 66970
> 
> ...


Have you had the chance to test it out, if so how did it preform compared to the old formula?


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## 804 Paint (Jan 31, 2014)

Monday!


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Have you had the chance to test it out, if so how did it preform compared to the old formula?


Please keep us posted.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

My rep confirmed they are phasing out the old stuff and bringing that in here too. She has a client using it next week and will keep me posted. Looking forward to feedback 804.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Shoot. I have not had the ideal job to try breakthrough on yet. Hopefully they do not ruin it first. I hate reformulations that are strictly for Voc regs, not product performance improvements.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

If they're keeping the 250g/voc I'll be able to use that if they ruined the new stuff. Thinking about it I'm not even sure which version I've been using. Is there a way to tell on the can? 

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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

Rbriggs82 said:


> If they're keeping the 250g/voc I'll be able to use that if they ruined the new stuff. Thinking about it I'm not even sure which version I've been using. Is there a way to tell on the can?
> 
> Sent from my LG-H810 using Tapatalk


We get the 150g here and it is on the label.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

I'll take a look tomorrow I have no idea switch one I've been using. I'm hoping it's the one they left alone, hate reformulations. 

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## 804 Paint (Jan 31, 2014)

I believe V51 is the 250 but can't pull up the TDS page on my phone. It should say on the bottom of the can, V51, V56, V57, etc

http://www.ppgporterpaints.com/products/specialty-exterior/break-through-interior-exterior-paint


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## 804 Paint (Jan 31, 2014)

Hey guys…brushed the back side of a drawer front last night. The only prep that was done was a Krud Kutter Gloss Off application with a Scotch Brite, rag wipe off and wet rag rinse. 

Granted, these are oak, but in the non-grainy areas I saw only the faintest of brush marks so it really seemed to level out nicely. So well, in fact, that I'm left wondering why I will be spraying these. However, after an overnight sit I could pretty easily scratch the paint off. I know with the other version it wasn't so easy to scratch off after a half-day of drying, but that doesn't mean this stuff won't eventually stick after a longer cure time. Remains to be seen.

I'll be painting the interior of an Airstream camper today, where open-time actually counts (as opposed to something simple like a drawer front) so I'll let you know how it goes!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Rbriggs82 said:


> If they're keeping the 250g/voc I'll be able to use that if they ruined the new stuff. Thinking about it I'm not even sure which version I've been using. Is there a way to tell on the can?
> 
> Sent from my LG-H810 using Tapatalk


There should be a voc statement on the label. Look along the bottom of the back and sides and near the upc code. It has to be on there if they sell it over the counter, which obviously they do.


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## p8ntman (Nov 16, 2011)

V50 is 250g/L in satin finish...V70 is 250g/L in gloss finish


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## 804 Paint (Jan 31, 2014)

Lunch time...sitting here eating my leftover jambalaya. Yum. 

It's an unseasonable 75 degrees today and slightly humid. Pretty much the same conditions in the camper. 

I am happy to report excellent, excellent open time. Accidentally did a section out of order had to go slightly back into the paint a full 5 minutes later and all was good. 

How much of this was due to humidity and lack of air movement I cannot say. It definitely dries pretty slowly. There's stuff I painted an hour ago that is still very tacky. 

If the adhesion and hardness end up being the same, I'll be a very happy camper. Ha ha. 


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

More open time is nice. Hoping to hear good things about the adhesion.


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## 804 Paint (Jan 31, 2014)

Damon T said:


> More open time is nice. Hoping to hear good things about the adhesion.


Well I am very UNHAPPY to report that after 36 hours this version of Breakthrough (V51) EASILY scratches off the backside of the drawer front. It's been sitting in my house, not the camper. I painted both the front and backside of another drawer front (from the same set, prepped the same way) with the previous version (V57) and it would still scratch off after 36 hours, but I really had to try…I mean really dig my nails in. 

This still doesn't mean it won't bond…right? I keep telling myself that. I'm VERY nervous as I got the first coat on the camper interior yesterday.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

804 Paint said:


> Well I am very UNHAPPY to report that after 36 hours this version of Breakthrough (V51) EASILY scratches off the backside of the drawer front. It's been sitting in my house, not the camper. I painted both the front and backside of another drawer front (from the same set, prepped the same way) with the previous version (V57) and it would still scratch off after 36 hours, but I really had to try…I mean really dig my nails in.
> 
> This still doesn't mean it won't bond…right? I keep telling myself that. I'm VERY nervous as I got the first coat on the camper interior yesterday.


This really doesn't surprise me, as this has been an issue with quite a few re-formulated products.

FYI, California's Ultraplate will have at least 90% of it's hardness after a 24 hour cure. The highest in the industry for non-catalyzed paint.

You may also find that the "blocking resistance" may be adversely effected in the new formulation. That is the property that keeps the dried paint film from sticking to itself, such as where drawers and doors contact the face of the cabinets. Most waterbourne products that are re-formulated to me lower voc levels have much reduced resistance to sticking.

The reason? Trying to simply adjust a 25 year old resin package instead of using something from this millennium.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Okay I took a look and I've been using the v50 version. Is that the one that got reformulated? 

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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Interesting thread since I'm pretty new to using BT. Everything I've used so far has been V76. 50 g/l VOC.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Okay I took a look and I've been using the v50 version. Is that the one that got reformulated?
> 
> Sent from my LG-H810 using Tapatalk



I think the v50 is the original stuff with 250 VOC. that's what I've been using also. 

One perk to the state of TN being perpetually behind the times I guess 




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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I think MI still has the higher VOC version too. At least, we still get the good TWP deck sealer, so hopefully the better BT as well. Unfortunately but understandably, most manufacturers cannot justify multiple versions for every region.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Reporting on Breakthrough v50. Today we used Breakthrough for the first time on kitchen cabinets. We used it a week ago for dressers and nightstands. What we discovered is that it is a very very hard product. It dries fast and it sands incredibly smooth and forms a powder. What we disliked about the product was on our kitchen boxes, that is after all doors have been removed, vertical surfaces have a tendency to make the Breakthrough sag very quickly. Therefore on our next kitchen cabinet project we will be spraying all of the verticals with three thin coats and all of the doors with two coats. I am supplying pictures with the first time we used this product. As you can see from the pictures the doors are horizontal in our system. That allows that we get no sags. The boxes we will have to do the third coat today. Very impressed with this product looking like factory finish. We used a tri Tech fine finish 210 tip.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Exactly my experience with it. When brushing and rolling the boxes you're better off doing thin coats cause it will sag like a mofo if you plan on just dumping it on. 

All said and done the finish is awesome and dries super hard really fast. 

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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

More pics of Breakthrough


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

More pics


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## ElTacoPaco (Dec 11, 2015)

How well will this product fare against sunlight? How about shutters? Front door?


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

Zoomer said:


> More pics of Breakthrough


:thumbup: gotta love Breakthrough & cabinets real money maker 

Great job Zoomer :thumbsup:


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Thank you Repaint,
A great product once you figure it out. 
The doors were sprayed two coats. The boxes were sprayed 3 light coats. Only two small sags easily sanded and denatured alcohol for smoothing out. I wish ppg would make a semi gloss.


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## ElTacoPaco (Dec 11, 2015)

Repaint Florida said:


> :thumbup: gotta love Breakthrough & cabinets real money maker
> 
> Great job Zoomer :thumbsup:


How does lacquer compare to this? Laquer is fast dry and tough with a good price point why choose break through


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

IMHO lacquer is too brittle and does not handle moisture well around sinks or sun by windows. 


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

And lacquer stinks and blows up if you're not careful.


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## ElTacoPaco (Dec 11, 2015)

DeanV said:


> IMHO lacquer is too brittle and does not handle moisture well around sinks or sun by windows.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My PPG rep told me today that you should not use Break through near high moisture areas like bathrooms


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

ElTacoPaco said:


> My PPG rep told me today that you should not use Break through near high moisture areas like bathrooms


Could be. I have it on my "to experiment list" but have not done cabinets with it yet, just some misc. plastic parts for windows.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

ElTacoPaco said:


> My PPG rep told me today that you should not use Break through near high moisture areas like bathrooms



I wonder if that the same reason it's not recommended for large exterior wooden structures. Perhaps a permeability issue.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Two breakthrough threads right next to each other. The other paints must be getting jealous. Advance only has one thread and pro classic doesn't have any threads.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Damon T said:


> Two breakthrough threads right next to each other. The other paints must be getting jealous. Advance only has one thread and pro classic doesn't have any threads.


Maybe I should start another "behr stinks" thread to liven things up a bit.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Having sold tons of Breakthrough in a previous life, while it was still an independent company, (Vanex I think?) I can say that it did have a problem with long term moisture contact. When it was used on bathroom cabinets and vanities for example it would start to soften over time in areas close to showers and sinks, as well as on drawers and doors where people were making contact with it with wet or damp hands. Kind of like how some cheap nitrocellulose lacquers tend to do. Whether this issue has been resolved by PPG I have no idea, But it could be the reason for this.


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## ElTacoPaco (Dec 11, 2015)

You guys want some? Come get some 
One whole pallet


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Damon T said:


> Two breakthrough threads right next to each other. The other paints must be getting jealous. Advance only has one thread and pro classic doesn't have any threads.


Ideally I would take Advance over all the others mentioned. If BM chemists would tweak it for some of its minor problems.


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## ElTacoPaco (Dec 11, 2015)

Zoomer said:


> Ideally I would take Advance over all the others mentioned. If BM chemists would tweak it for some of its minor problems.


Eeew Pro Classic 
Come get some Advance 
Btw what are the minor flaws


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Good luck on the venture ETP. With as many people that love Breakthrough on the boards here I can only imagine it'll go well. If I was a contractor and I needed really fast turnaround time, it's what I would use. Otherwise I still love me some Advance 

Flaws of the Advance? Dry time is a big one. It had problems with sags once upon a time, but it has been improved upon since then and not been a problem for my local guys at all. The dry time hurts productivity, though, for a lot of people. No same day recoats at all.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

ElTacoPaco said:


> Eeew Pro Classic
> Come get some Advance
> Btw what are the minor flaws


The minor flaws are pretty much what Drake just mentioned in his thread. In my opinion advanced would compete and surpass breakthrough if it would cure faster as to not allow for picking after everything has put back into place. Also advance has superior touch-up capabilities over breakthrough. Breakthrough is a better product if you need to return to service very quickly. Breakthrough does not come in semi gloss. Most of our clients enjoy that particular sheen level for most of their cabinetry and doors and trim.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

ElTacoPaco said:


> Eeew Pro Classic
> Come get some Advance
> Btw what are the minor flaws


Based on the photo, it appears Advance satin is the most popular sheen.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

The slow cure of Advance is its number one drawback in my opinion. Overnight dry to recoat is just like we dealt with with the alkyds, so no big deal there. But when you rehang cab doors after 7 days of drying and they still stick to the face frames, that's an issue.


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## dirtyjeep01 (Dec 19, 2015)

DeanV said:


> Does it spray more like paint or a wb lacquer?
> 
> I am suprised it can be used on cabinets without priming to stop tannin bleed.



Why would there be any Tanin bleed on a cabinet door that is being refinished. The original coat of lacquer or urethane would prevent any sort of Tanin from manufacturing


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## dirtyjeep01 (Dec 19, 2015)

What's the dry time on advance. Say I am spraying a house 3000sqft trim would I beable to 2 coat in the same day.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

dirtyjeep01 said:


> What's the dry time on advance. Say I am spraying a house 3000sqft trim would I beable to 2 coat in the same day.


You can read the label on the can, you can pull up the TDS online, or you can ask here. The answer will be the same. 

The "sqft trim" doesn't really affect the dry time.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

dirtyjeep01 said:


> What's the dry time on advance. Say I am spraying a house 3000sqft trim would I beable to 2 coat in the same day.



We have recoated when dry to the touch many times. I typically let surfaces like bookshelves dry over night but vertical trim I will recoat same day no problem. Have heard same suggestion from my rep. 

So on a big house you probably could start second coat once finished with first coat. But I would do your own testing. On something small. Don't just take the word of some internet paint jockey


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

I know there's plenty of people (like Damon) that have said they've had consistent good luck recoating quicker, but for every person that says that I hear from another person who's had a problem doing it that way, so it's hard to say. I always just recommend an overnight dry. I think the can says 16 hours or some such.

Edit: Oh, and Satin is by far my most popular sheen, but that may be regional.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

dirtyjeep01 said:


> Why would there be any Tanin bleed on a cabinet door that is being refinished. The original coat of lacquer or urethane would prevent any sort of Tanin from manufacturing



One would think so. But I always get some kind of bleed with water base primers. Some seem to lock it down though for the most part. 


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

DeanV said:


> One would think so. But I always get some kind of bleed with water base primers. Some seem to lock it down though for the most part.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Me too. It's easy to burn through that clear coat.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I find pores in oak and areas of moderate wear are enough to always stain through. 


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