# Customers Suppling Paint



## HC-Raad (Jan 26, 2017)

*Question to the pros:* How does it benefit the contractor and the homeowner mutually (in a positive way), if the HO buy's the paints?

*My Experience*

*Pros* 
- None

*Cons*
- The HO has control over the service you are providing. 
- The HO doesn't ask the contractor for advice regarding the paint brand, products, sheens or quantity needed
- The HO takes it upon themselves to decide the quantity needed for their project and they are always short.
- The HO has the foggiest idea what paints are acceptable for the pros.
- The HO shows up with mystery paint - brand X.
- The Paints are not on the job when the painters need them.

*Common HO lines when they buy the paint*
- I figured I would only get 10 gallons of paint and if you run short, let me know, the paint store is only 5 minutes up the road.
- I will ask the paint store clerk what paint they recommend.
- First day on the job: Sorry, I didn't have a chance to go to the paint store yet. I figured you can set up while I run to the store.
- My friend said that BEHR is a really great paint. 

I have always found that when the customer buys the paints, it is always counter-productive. :surprise:

My outlook: I'm the business, I'm the professional, I'm the expert, I'm providing the service. Why would I want the inexperienced, naïve, (sometimes ignorant) HO, to supply poor or improper products, with delays and then expect me to provide my professional services properly, effectively, efficiently on budget and warranty the end product?


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

The only pros I can see are, that if you do run short on your estimate for a room. You know those rooms that may take just over a gallon. Then it's out of thier pocket. Also, if it's not the product you were hoping for, you can blame any dificiencies on the paint. Other than that, I concour it's a major PITA.


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## Vinyl 54X (Mar 12, 2019)

It's a red flag that they want it done on the cheap.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Pro- all liability for paint, sheen, color, quantity, etc... is lifted from the contractor.

* I usually discourage it, in direct proportion to how much I want the job.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Typically, the only time I have used customer purchased paint is when they started a room and then needed me to help them when they realized they were in over their heads. 

Once had a customer who knew what they had used before and wanted exactly the same thing again so she had already ordered the one gallon needed. It was a Farrow and Ball product so I was fine with her having done it.

If I ever have a customer that wants to get the paint themselves for an otherwise “regular” job, I will explain the benefits of letting me get it. And to be honest, after doing so, I have never had a customer still insist on wanting to get it.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

On the other hand... I do all the leg work making custom color samples and matching stains for a job then the contractor runs over to SW to have it 'matched' in their product.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> On the other hand... I do all the leg work making custom color samples and matching stains for a job then the contractor runs over to SW to have it 'matched' in their product.


Those contractors are tools. The two stores that I buy my paint and materials from treat me very well, and I would almost never buy materials....especially paint...from another store just because it is cheaper.

Sent from my SM-A600U using Tapatalk


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

There are no upsides for a home owner to piece meal the logistical obligations of a full service trade contractor. All Ismarelda and Hector Homeowner need to do, is to move as much of their crap out of the way as possible, and have a plate of cookies and good coffee at the ready.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Their house, their money. I got paid to put it on.
I ran into a few HO's like that over the course of my career. All you have to do is cover your butt in the contract.

Every painter has their personal choice of paint they prefer to use. Fine by me as I did also. My argument has always been that if you're a professional, you should have the skills to apply any paints.

You know that your preferred paint will cover in two coats. You state in your contract that you'll apply two coats right? HO supplies a paint that you're not experienced with and not sure of the hiding coverage; you add in the contract that if additional coats are required, there is an additional charge.

Likewise if they don't purchase enough material and it causes a delay or scheduling change of other jobs.

I did a lot of insurance resto work. Most of the jobs you had to use their preferred stores, ie; HD, Lowes, Menards unless the HO showed that another store brand was used. You do the work, there is no money out of your pocket for materials, and you get paid. Made a lot of money doing insurance resto.

So, you can sit back and act as if you're doing the customer a "favor" by doing their painting. That's up to you. You can also get out bid by someone who will use the same paint and just have a lower labor charge. There goes the "favor" aspect.

Or you can go out there, put paint on surfaces, and make money.

No brainer.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

I did a 6k square ft complete interior for a lady.....all using Behr premium. Her brother was a hot shot for Behr. Don't know what she paid per gallon, didn't care. Spelled everything out in the contract concerning coats, coverage, materials needed. Did the walk thru with her letting her know what amount was needed for each room. The day we started the job all but two gallons was on site. The next day they were there.

Not one problem through the whole job. When I did the "job cost analysis" at the end, I actually had a higher profit percentage because I didn't have to deal with the time involved ordering, picking up, etc..


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Pete Martin the Painter said:


> Those contractors are tools. The two stores that I buy my paint and materials from treat me very well, and I would almost never buy materials....especially paint...from another store just because it is cheaper.
> 
> Sent from my SM-A600U using Tapatalk


You'd be surprised how many painting "tools" there are out there!


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

Sometimes it is almost impossible to convince home owners that Behr is not the best paint out there. I have used it 3 times in the past 2 years. I have to say that they exterior is much easier to work with than the interior. For one job the home owner bought multiple gallons of interior paint for his clapboards. On the other 2 jobs the homeowners bought 2x the amount of paint that was needed. I could of purchased better paint for less money.

Sent from my SM-A600U using Tapatalk


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Is it possible to get premium pay for applying crappy paint? There should be some stipulation somewhere.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

The whole reason they want to buy the paint is because thier friend/cousin has an account and can get a discount.
So when the customer asks, " do you get a discount"? What do you say/do. ?
I usually don't charge retail price, but I do mark it up a few dollars per gallon, for my time etc. But if they are getting the same discount, on the same product, I be like "be my guest and pick up your own paint. Nothing in it for me at that point..


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

CApainter said:


> There are no upsides for a home owner to piece meal the logistical obligations of a full service trade contractor. All Ismarelda and Hector Homeowner need to do, is to move as much of their crap out of the way as possible, and have a plate of cookies and good coffee at the ready.


I had a long time customer, 30+ years , that made the best coffee ever (perked, not drip) and homemade Italian cookies to boot. About every Italian cookie known to mankind.....the ones you pay like $2.00 a piece for in a bakery. An unlimited supply of Italian cookies. And she would discard the coffee after a couple of hours and make a new pot...had to be fresh.

Did I mention there were Italian cookies.....:vs_OMG:


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Lightningboy65 said:


> I had a long time customer, 30+ years , that made the best coffee ever (perked, not drip) and homemade Italian cookies to boot. About every Italian cookie known to mankind.....the ones you pay like $2.00 a piece for in a bakery. An unlimited supply of Italian cookies. And she would discard the coffee after a couple of hours and make a new pot...had to be fresh.
> 
> Did I mention there were Italian cookies.....:vs_OMG:


I don't think Americans know how to properly break. It's definitely a valuable skill set when someone knows how to fully commit to it.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

CApainter said:


> I don't think Americans know how to properly break. It's definitely a valuable skill set when someone knows how to fully commit to it.


Break? or Bake? Both valueble skills non the less. Happiness comes in small packages people. Like a coffee and cookie.:wink::vs_coffee:


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

How do you warranty your work when applying products supplied by a client? The reason I ask is, several years ago I had a builder-client supply me with a spec and a 2 part pool epoxy by Sau-Sea which he purchased for a new gunite pool, hiring my company to apply the material. The epoxy which was applied to spec failed almost immediately and the pool ended up needing to be drained, media blasted, re-marble dusted, and refinished with another product. Who’s liable for remediating the failure in an instance such as this? 

In this instance I had included an exclusion in the contract, not guaranteeing the work to be free from material defects when the finishing materials were provided by others, and not providing a warranty against failure.

The cost to remediate the pool was $90K and the builder had to pick up the expense. 

I’ve had at least 2 similar instances over the course of my career where finish materials supplied by builder-clients experienced catastrophic failures. The onus to provide remedy in both instances was on the builders who supplied the materials due to warranty exclusions written into the contracts.

Best to CYA when installing product supplied by the client.


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## HC-Raad (Jan 26, 2017)

Wolfgang said:


> I did a 6k square ft complete interior for a lady.....all using Behr premium. Her brother was a hot shot for Behr. Don't know what she paid per gallon, didn't care. Spelled everything out in the contract concerning coats, coverage, materials needed. Did the walk thru with her letting her know what amount was needed for each room. The day we started the job all but two gallons was on site. The next day they were there.
> 
> Not one problem through the whole job. When I did the "job cost analysis" at the end, I actually had a higher profit percentage because I didn't have to deal with the time involved ordering, picking up, etc..


This is one job. In most cases, when the HO buys the paint, it's a headache.

Letting the HO buy paint for the service you are providing, puts them in control of your service. Sorry, i manage the job, i manage my business, i am the expert and this is my profession. Plus we work at a fixed price and a cost overrun comes out of the contractors profit. Na, no thanks. I will buy the paints or not take the job. 

Would you provide the auto parts for your mechanic? Would you provide the novacaine for your dentist? Would you provide the anaesthesia for your surgery?
Of course not. And that is a no brainer.


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## HC-Raad (Jan 26, 2017)

Wolf, if you're willing to let the customer supply paints, why stop there? Have them get the roller covers, spackle, caulk, sandpaper, plastic, tape etc. Heck, if they have ladders, brushes, roller handles, extension poles, etc, let them supply them too. OMG what a nightmare.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

HC-Raad said:


> *Would you provide the auto parts for your mechanic?*



That's actually a real problem, many people buy parts on amazon, ebay, alibaba etc then expect the local mechanic to put them in.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Doesn’t Tire Rack have their whole business model built on shipping tires to customers who then get a local outfit to mount them?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

My sister in-law recruited me once to paint a few doors and walls with a BEHR product. Of course it was free. I hated every minute applying that crap! I worked extra hard to make it look decent. Constantly running back and forth during application to address runs. 

Just like the saying goes, "When you sleep with donkeys, you wake up smelling like ass", or something like that.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

​


HC-Raad said:


> Wolf, if you're willing to let the customer supply paints, why stop there? Have them get the roller covers, spackle, caulk, sandpaper, plastic, tape etc. Heck, if they have ladders, brushes, roller handles, extension poles, etc, let them supply them too. OMG what a nightmare.


Guess I was just a poor businessman wasn't I. 

I had complete control over my company. (I also had/have common sense. Which your post I'm quoting doesn't show much of.) We're in a service "industry". Therefore, there is only so much control an owner really has.

You run your company as you see fit. If it's working for you, carry on.


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> That's actually a real problem, many people buy parts on amazon, ebay, alibaba etc then expect the local mechanic to put them in.


About a year ago I needed a new door handle for our Buick. Went to the Buick dealer...$125.00. Looked up online aftermarket...$25. No brainer, ordered the part online with every intention of doing it myself.

After watching a Youtube vid to gain the secrets necessary to remove the old handle, I started second guessing my decision. Well, I was correct in my second guessing. After an hour of frustration, I went to my mechanic and he installed it in about 10 minutes for $30.00. I felt bad going to him and bringing my own parts....he said people do it all the time. And for them he has a higher rate, whether they know it or not!

Had I not been a longstanding customer, I'm certain he would have charged me more than $30.00.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Lightningboy65 said:


> About a year ago I needed a new door handle for our Buick. Went to the Buick dealer...$125.00. Looked up online aftermarket...$25. No brainer, ordered the part online with every intention of doing it myself.
> 
> After watching a Youtube vid to gain the secrets necessary to remove the old handle, I started second guessing my decision. Well, I was correct in my second guessing. After an hour of frustration, I went to my mechanic and he installed it in about 10 minutes for $30.00. I felt bad going to him and bringing my own parts....he said people do it all the time. And for them he has a higher rate, whether they know it or not!
> 
> Had I not been a longstanding customer, I'm certain he would have charged me more than $30.00.


I get parts for my Porsche online all the time and have my mechanic install them. He charges the standard flat hourly rate. Of course some of the parts take several weeks to track down. He don't gots time for that crap.


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

I know recently when I had that same mechanic put a new window regulator in my truck he charged $180.00 (which is listed retail) for the part. I could have ordered the same part online for $100.00.

He is an excellent mechanic and honest....I'm willing to pay full retail on parts for that!


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## HC-Raad (Jan 26, 2017)

Lightningboy65 said:


> cocomonkeynuts said:
> 
> 
> > That's actually a real problem, many people buy parts on amazon, ebay, alibaba etc then expect the local mechanic to put them in.
> ...


Backyard mechanic?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I've worked with HVAC, construction, and electronics contractors where I was tasked with purchasing materials, supplies, and or parts. Every one of them told me they couldn't warranty the installation. 

Recently, I had to cancel a job that had been scheduled for weeks because I was the dummy who was tasked to acquire some materials in order to save a buck, but I failed to get certain parts that they'd expected me to get, had I known what the full installation process was. 

It's all about the turn-key baby. Let the competent people do the job from start to finish. I don't know about anyone else, but there was never any value for me when a homeowner wanted to help out. They just gave me anxiety. I'd rather they stay in a room watching TV after brewing up a hot pot of coffee.


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## Vinyl 54X (Mar 12, 2019)

The true nightmare is being asked to finish a job that the last painter either bailed or was fired from. I try to stay away from those jobs as well.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Vinyl 54X said:


> The true nightmare is being asked to finish a job that the last painter either bailed or was fired from. I try to stay away from those jobs as well.


As I mentioned earlier, I (unlike some) don’t have any trouble coming into a job in which the HO started and then realized they couldn’t hack it. Not my favorite scenario but WTH. However, I couldn’t agree more about staying away from ones in which the previous painter left the job unfinished. Regardless of the specifics, those types of jobs just yell, “Danger, danger Will Robinson!”


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Lightningboy65 said:


> I know recently when I had that same mechanic put a new window regulator in my truck he charged $180.00 (which is listed retail) for the part. I could have ordered the same part online for $100.00.
> 
> He is an excellent mechanic and honest....I'm willing to pay full retail on parts for that!



You were smart for letting the mechanic do that job. My driver side window lived all the way down for pretty much the entire summer due to a broken regulator. I got the part online, tore my door apart, figured it out and installed it...... Several times!



At this point, I think the final installation went well as it's been several months now and it's still working. Our mechanic is always booked out a month ahead, so I'm always trying to figure out how to do things myself. Except for brakes. I won't touch brakes.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

​


HC-Raad said:


> Wolf, if you're willing to let the customer supply paints, why stop there? Have them get the roller covers, spackle, caulk, sandpaper, plastic, tape etc. Heck, if they have ladders, brushes, roller handles, extension poles, etc, let them supply them too. OMG what a nightmare.


 I've had plenty of customers, especially lonely housewives ask me what kind of paint to buy and how much. It makes them feel important..like they're helping.
I tell them exactly what to buy and how much. 4 Gals. Aura Matt and 3 gals Ultra Spec Flat. Thanks. In those cases, I don't mind one bit.. If you have No idea what paint they're buying, that's a different story..
You just sound like a little bit of control freak


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## HC-Raad (Jan 26, 2017)

CApainter said:


> Recently, I had to cancel a job that had been scheduled for weeks because I was the dummy who was tasked to acquire some materials in order to save a buck, but I failed to get certain parts that they'd expected me to get, had I known what the full installation process was.
> 
> It's all about the turn-key baby. *Let the competent people do the job from start to finish. I don't know about anyone else, but there was never any value for me when a homeowner wanted to help out. They just gave me anxiety. I'd rather they stay in a room watching TV after brewing up a hot pot of coffee.*


I agree wholeheartedly. 

When the customer wants to buy the paint (because they think they will save money), they make mistakes that unfortunately, cost the contractor time and money.


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## HC-Raad (Jan 26, 2017)

RH said:


> *As I mentioned earlier, I (unlike some) don’t have any trouble coming into a job in which the HO started and then realized they couldn’t hack it. *Not my favorite scenario but WTH. However, I couldn’t agree more about staying away from ones in which the previous painter left the job unfinished. Regardless of the specifics, those types of jobs just yell, “Danger, danger Will Robinson!”


The problem is, these types of people are cheap, that's why they started the job themselves. Cheap people don't want to pay my price.


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## HC-Raad (Jan 26, 2017)

Wolfgang said:


> ​
> Guess I was just a poor businessman wasn't I.
> 
> I had complete control over my company. *(I also had/have common sense. Which your post I'm quoting doesn't show much of.)* We're in a service "industry". Therefore, there is only so much control an owner really has.
> ...


My post was sarcasm and I was busting your balls. 

Wolf, I have had too many bad experience when the customer buys the paint. And I don't need these types of HO's, as we have plenty of work. How many times do you need to burn your hand on the stove before you realize you shouldn't put your hand in the fire? I'm a quick learner. 

It is completely unnecessary for them to do so to begin with. It is not my job to placate the client, then train and guide the inexperienced customer to supply the proper paints, on time, no mistakes, for my service to work at it's optimum production rate, so I can maximize profits.

Here is a hypothetical: If your company was large enough, where you needed 1 person to do all the paint ordering and delivering, would you hire some noob off the street (to do things without your approval), or would you hire someone with experience, or train a staff member before sending them in the field? 

I am willing to bet, you wouldn't trust a noob off the street to order 100's of gallons of paint weekly for your business, when you have 20 painters on job sites that need paints yesterday. 

If I am correct with my assumption, why would you or anyone want the noob customer (who has no idea what they are doing), to supply the paints for lets say a 2700 sq ft home? Because they are the one hiring you? We are business owners, not employees. I am the one providing the service at a fixed price. 

I'm sorry, my advice to anyone thinking of starting a painting business, don't let the HO buy the paint. The HO doesn't know what the fork they are doing.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

HC-Raad said:


> The problem is, these types of people are cheap, that's why they started the job themselves. Cheap people don't want to pay my price.


Well, maybe the didn’t want to pay my price as well, but in the few times I’ve actually done some of these (maybe three or four of them over thirty years or so) my fee was not even an issue. They were just glad to have someone take over and complete it.


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## Pray4surf (Oct 18, 2013)

HC-Raad said:


> The problem is, these types of people are cheap, that's why they started the job themselves. Cheap people don't want to pay my price.


True, but on the flip side maybe now they understand why painting isn't just "I used to paint during summer break while I was in college".


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*My recent experience with this*



HC-Raad said:


> *Question to the pros:* How does it benefit the contractor and the homeowner mutually (in a positive way), if the HO buy's the paints?
> 
> I just did a job where the HO went and bought the paint. Here is my story:
> 
> ...


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Pray4surf said:


> True, but on the flip side maybe now they understand why painting isn't just "I used to paint during summer break while I was in college".


I'd like to believe those could be an "I told you so!" moment. But they're typically not.

There's a gene in most Homosapiens that prevent them from perceiving painting as anything other than a simple task that should be fun, but after forty five minutes, isn't any longer. However, the impulse to repeat that process is driven by the reluctance to attach a monetary value to that simple task. I think Jane Goodall did a study on this.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

futtyos (250 words /min.) said:


> I am sorry for being so digitally (as in fingers) loquacious here, but I haven't written a long, drawn out post here in a while and the words just keep forcing themselves out through my fingertips. :O futtyos


Try duct taping your fingers together.


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## jennifertemple (Oct 30, 2011)

In my world, the customer is BOSS! I tell the HO that if they do not get the specified paint they will not get any warranty and if I quoted primer + 2 then that is what they get, whether or not the paint gave proper coverage. I will say this, when they use my supplier and get my discount they need to show the contract to the supplier and he fills the order as written. This, has so far, worked out well for me. If the HO wants to buy the paint it may be that they are gun shy after having other painters supply crap a high end prices. AND we do know such scabs exist and in far to many numbers.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*fingers vs hands*



CApainter said:


> Try duct taping your fingers together.


I did, but then they come out in paragraphs.

fut


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

futtyos said:


> I did, but then they come out in paragraphs.
> 
> fut



Which are greatly appreciated by all.


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

So what if SW calls to paint their corporate HQ and they insist on supplying the paint?

Every job is different. I'd never make a blanket statement saying I'd never allow the customer to supply the paint. I'd want to meet the customer before making that decision. I've allowed the practice in some cases and have refused to allow the practice in others.


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

Loquacious /lo kway SHes/ (adjective) : a ten dollar word in a five cent conversation.:biggrin:


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Which are greatly appreciated by all.


Don't encourage him. I should get paid for how much time it takes to read his posts.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I think the only time I would allow a customer to buy paint for me to install, would be if I thought he could kick my teeth in if I refused. I'm very timid like that.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

CApainter said:


> Don't encourage him. I should get paid for how much time it takes to read his posts.


Tell us about it.


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## jennifertemple (Oct 30, 2011)

Vinyl 54X said:


> The true nightmare is being asked to finish a job that the last painter either bailed or was fired from. I try to stay away from those jobs as well.


 Why stay away? I always found the HO never questioned my price in those kinds of situations. They would pay near anything to get out! I always loved being the fixer and some of my best referrals were from those who were so grateful for a great finisher. 

The ones I hate are those HOs that decide to "help" after I've left for the night. Invariably they incur increased costs, make my job a lot harder and once, even ruined 2 gallons of paint. (Confused white oil with white latex and contaminated both gallons & put me to some pains to clean my brush:vs_mad


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

jennifertemple said:


> The ones I hate are those HOs that decide to "help" after I've left for the night. Invariably they incur increased costs, make my job a lot harder and once, even ruined 2 gallons of paint. (Confused white oil with white latex and contaminated both gallons & put me to some pains to clean my brush:vs_mad


Nothing like walking into a room that you had first coated and have it all ready for the second coat first thing in the morning, and the switch and receptacle covers are all back on, furniture back in place, and all of your drops and tools piled neatly in the hallway.....

"I decided to give you a hand and put the room back together, since you were done with the painting".......:vs_sob:

Actually happened to me, once.


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## HC-Raad (Jan 26, 2017)

*Who buys the paint for your projects? Why?*

*Who buys the paint for your projects?
Why?*

The Who - 96% of Contractors Surveyed Prefer to Include Paint in their Estimates

While we were not surprised by the answers to the first question, we were impressed that 96% of paint contractors surveyed could agree so strongly about ANYTHING! That was cool to see.

The overwhelming majority of paint contractors prefer to purchase the paint for their projects, rather than having homeowners or anyone else provide it. And their comments explain why paint contractors buy paint.

*Read More:* http://preptofinish.com/why-paint-contractors-buy-paint/


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Lightningboy65 said:


> So what if SW calls to paint their corporate HQ and they insist on supplying the paint?
> 
> Every job is different. I'd never make a blanket statement saying I'd never allow the customer to supply the paint. I'd want to meet the customer before making that decision. I've allowed the practice in some cases and have refused to allow the practice in others.



I think this post nails it perfectly. If you know your customer, they know you and they know good paint I could care less if they want to supply the paint. There are no absolutes when you're talking about people.


Now if the question was phrased "Would you rather use cheap crappy paint, or good paint, or the paint that's appropriate for the job?" That would be a question that could be answered with absolutes.


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

The money I made on materials and the occasional HO screw up ,that that may result in a little extra time on my part, paled in comparison to the money I made applying the paint. If I were interested in bidding the job, it was going to pay enough to cover a few inconveniences. I would not dismiss a job based on the fact a customer wanted to supply the paint. It really did not come up that much. As I said previously, if it did, I decided on a case by case basis.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

RH said:


> Tell us about it.


2 shay!


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Honestly, having someone turn on the lights for you while you're painting, even though you can see perfectly clear, is about as irritating as it gets. Probably worse than the homeowner buying paint. I mean someone saying "Here, let me turn the lights on for you so you can see better", really means " Here, I realize you're too dumb to know electric lighting has been around since the nineteenth century, so let me intervene".


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

CApainter said:


> Honestly, having someone turn on the lights for you while you're painting, even though you can see perfectly clear, is about as irritating as it gets. Probably worse than the homeowner buying paint. I mean someone saying "Here, let me turn the lights on for you so you can see better", really means " Here, I realize you're too dumb to know electric lighting has been around since the nineteenth century, so let me intervene".


I agree. Though usually they will ask if I need more light rather than just turn them on - but the implication is the same.

Not sure of the science (or physics?) behind it, but I can always see my work better when the light is more subdued, or at least more natural. Maybe it’s the extra glare reflecting back or something when too much artificial light is introduced. I know I have heard the observation that artists always liked studios with good natural lighting for practicing their craft, so maybe the same elements that we notice affect them.

Of course, high impact lighting is important in some situations, but typically not when doing normal wall and ceiling surfaces.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*big words*



Lightningboy65 said:


> Loquacious /lo kway SHes/ (adjective) : a ten dollar word in a five cent conversation.:biggrin:


You should read me when I am on a real hippopotomonstrosesquippedalianantic rant!

futtyosupercalifragilisticexpialidocious


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## HC-Raad (Jan 26, 2017)

Pray4surf said:


> HC-Raad said:
> 
> 
> > The problem is, these types of people are cheap, that's why they started the job themselves. Cheap people don't want to pay my price.
> ...


So they learn at my expense. In other words, they get their free estimate and i dont get the job. Because, they don't want to what? Pay my price.


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## HC-Raad (Jan 26, 2017)

Lightningboy65 said:


> So what if SW calls to paint their corporate HQ and they insist on supplying the paint?
> 
> Every job is different. I'd never make a blanket statement saying I'd never allow the customer to supply the paint. I'd want to meet the customer before making that decision. I've allowed the practice in some cases and have refused to allow the practice in others.


If SW calls and wants you to use their paint, you use their paint. 

If mrs smith wants to supply the paint on half her interior, you tell her we are a full service company. In order to warranty the work, we supply the paint.


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## HC-Raad (Jan 26, 2017)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Now if the question was phrased "Would you rather use cheap crappy paint, or good paint, or the paint that's appropriate for the job?" That would be a question that could be answered with absolutes.


Bill, there are a lot more variables to the contractor buying the paint vs the HO buying, than the paint itself being good or bad.

Example: For a small exterior trim paint job, i had a homeowner tell me over the phone, they had already bought the paint and started painting themselves. Ask me if i could finish. I agreed. They told me, the day i start the job, the paint would be on the porch when i arrive.

Yes, it was on the porch all right. And it was Emerald. Guess what? There sitting was 1 quart of paint for 2 painters. Are you forking serious? I needed a gallon and the HO was at work. So i called his office and got his voicemail. Now what?

Yes fellows, it's my fault for not asking him how much paint he had on hand. I naturally assumed he had enough - 1 gallon. My bad! SMH.

So there we are, 2 painters with 1 quart of paint to work with for the whole day. Yes guys, my fault. SMH

HO comes home at noon and says, if you need more paint, i will go get it. SW is 5 mins away. Sorry mr customer, to go to the paint store, stand in line, wait for 2 customers in line a head of you, then get stuck in traffic, your 5 min trip is 1 1/2 hours. And we're $110 per/hr for 2 painters sitting here waiting at your mercy.

No thanks. I will buy the product for the service i am providing.

I have more customer bought the paint horror stories if you want to hear them.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

The last thing I want to do is get into a disagreement before any work has begun. If I can arrive at an agreeable solution, that doesn't create additional hardships, I find it usually pays dividends in the end (or in the middle, or somewhere else). 

A Good Scenario: 
Recently, a customer asked to buy all of the paint. 

He was from out of town (as many customers here are) and they wanted to use a very specific product. They sampled all of the local products, and did not find what they were looking for. 

I realized quickly that this customer was less concerned with cost, and more concerned with results. It was obvious that he would be unhappy with a different product, and the fighting him on this issue would start things off on a bad footing. 


I explained that I was not familiar with the product, so I could offer no guarantees regarding workmanship, but that I would be willing to use whatever he provided, if he was agreeable to that condition. I also explained that he will need to have more stock on-hand than we would likely need, to avoid running short: Also, no problem. 

Its turns out that gentleman and his wife were extremely easy to work for after this hurdle, and he had plenty of paint on hand. I was able to try a new product, and had fair success with it, and they have proven to be a very valuable repeat customer. They leave us alone when working, they are available for questions or direction when needed, they are fun to be around, and they always pay promptly.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

As mentioned earlier in this post, the HO providing paint is often a keyword for "cheap". 

I try to distinguish whether that is in fact the case, or whether it is something else. Inflexibility in the "Service" Trades should be avoided in my opinion.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Holland said:


> As mentioned earlier in this post, the HO providing paint is often a keyword for "cheap".
> 
> I try to distinguish whether that is in fact the case, or whether it is something else. Inflexibility in the "Service" Trades should be avoided in my opinion.


Exactly, it's all situational. As is life. If I had a certain set of high end speakers I wanted installed in my car, would an installer say "No you gotta use my speakers"..? That's just foolish.
Or if I ordered a special set of Mud tires and wanted my mechanic to install them. If he said no, I'd find a new mechanic.. Heck, All my designers purchase the wallpaper for me. You just have to make sure they order enough of it.. Not rocket science. 
This is not a black and white world to me.


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

futtyos said:


> You should read me when I am on a real hippopotomonstrosesquippedalianantic rant!
> 
> futtyosupercalifragilisticexpialidocious


The Hunter S. Thompson of PT!

Gonzo painting.....:biggrin:


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## HC-Raad (Jan 26, 2017)

I had a customer supply the paint. When giving the estimate she took me in her garage and showed me 5 single gallons of SW superpaint . i said great! 

When i started the job i oppend 1 can and quickly saw the paint must have been sitting for a long time as the paint had fully settled and on top was water x 5 cans. I then looked at the date on the lids.

The paints were over a year old. And sat at freezing temps in the garage. SMH.
Yes they worked after an hour of stiring and straining the product.

Again, my fault for not asking how old the paint was. smh


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

HC-Raad said:


> I had a customer supply the paint. When giving the estimate she took me in her garage and showed me 5 single gallons of SW superpaint . i said great!
> 
> When i started the job i oppend 1 can and quickly saw the paint must have been sitting for a long time as the paint had fully settled and on top was water x 5 cans. I then looked at the date on the lids.
> 
> ...



I might complain in certain circumstances, bit most of the time I just add it to the bill.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Exactly, it's all situational. As is life. If I had a certain set of high end speakers I wanted installed in my car, would an installer say "No you gotta use my speakers"..? That's just foolish.
> Or if I ordered a special set of Mud tires and wanted my mechanic to install them. If he said no, I'd find a new mechanic.. Heck, All my designers purchase the wallpaper for me. You just have to make sure they order enough of it.. Not rocket science.
> This is not a black and white world to me.


One place said they cannot install other people tires (liability), and another place said they would but that I lose the free tire rotation and guarantee for life of the tires. 
I am still a customer at the second location.


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

Holland said:


> One place said they cannot install other people tires (liability), and another place said they would but that I lose the free tire rotation and guarantee for life of the tires.
> I am still a customer at the second location.


Lifetime guarantee? Prorated, I assume. I've noticed from my own experience and from what I've heard of others, getting tire companies to honor these guarantees can be problematic. Years ago, Sears used to back them up. That stopped about 1990. The worse problem I ever had was with a set of Coopers I only got 18,000 miles on and they refused to offer me anything. Last set of Coopers I ever bought.

You ever have to make a claim with that company (on tires bought there)?

Not surprising many places don't want to install. Traditionally tires have a large markup. The internet has changed that.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Lightningboy65 said:


> Lifetime guarantee? Prorated, I assume. I've noticed from my own experience and from what I've heard of others, getting tire companies to honor these guarantees can be problematic. Years ago, Sears used to back them up. That stopped about 1990. The worse problem I ever had was with a set of Coopers I only got 18,000 miles on and they refused to offer me anything. Last set of Coopers I ever bought.
> 
> You ever have to make a claim with that company (on tires bought there)?
> 
> Not surprising many places don't want to install. Traditionally tires have a large markup. The internet has changed that.


*free tire rotation for life of the tire, and related warranty issues.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Holland said:


> One place said they cannot install other people tires (liability), and another place said they would but that I lose the free tire rotation and guarantee for life of the tires.
> I am still a customer at the second location.


Ya, I guess if it's an obscure make or something, I understand. Warranty would be a big issue for an unknown brand/make..Alchemys story of the pool failure is a good example..


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Ya, I guess if it's an obscure make or something, I understand. Warranty would be a big issue for an unknown brand/make..Alchemys story of the pool failure is a good example..



I had a similar situation where my brother wanted a pool painted in a home that he purchased in a foreclosure. The previous owners basically collected all of the dog poo they possibly could in a couple of garbage cans, then with great defiance, dumped them into the pool. It stewed through a hot summer and developed a pretty green slime barrier on the surface of the water that kept the putrid smell somewhat at bay. Anyways, I told him he would have to clean the substrate extremely well.


After a few weeks of pump repairs, heater installation, and a bunch of knick knacks, he recruited me to apply the epoxy paint. I never trusted his surface preparation, but it wasn't my job. Long story short, after about one season the coating developed a billion micro bubbles that looked like they were ready to burst at any moment. 


You just cant sleep with donkeys.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

One of the things about running our own businesses is if we have had bad experiences with a customer doing something, like buying the paint, we can chose to let someone else take the job, ask questions before getting into it, or just show up ready to work. The last isn’t advisable, the first and second certainly within our control. We are adults and business people, not victims.


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## Fman (Aug 20, 2011)

"Free tire rotation"? Fellas- the tires rotate _every time you drive the vehicle!_ Yeesh!


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

RH said:


> One of the things about running our own businesses is if we have had bad experiences with a customer doing something, like buying the paint, we can chose to let someone else take the job, ask questions before getting into it, or just show up ready to work. The last isn’t advisable, the first and second certainly within our control. We are adults and business people, not victims.


If the painting business, in terms of sustainability, wasn't so damn competitive for many self employed painters, picking and choosing who you'd want to do work for, would be a wonderful thing. But unfortunately, we're driven by the whims, skewed expectations, and tight, I mean tight, pockets of homeowners who have no clue what the value of a painting service is.

I mean, we have painters who essentially want to employ a machine (the airless) to provide a product that had been traditionally admired for its hand crafted skill set, in order to compete for a mediocre dollar.


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## HC-Raad (Jan 26, 2017)

Holland said:


> A Good Scenario:
> Recently, a customer asked to buy all of the paint.
> 
> He was from out of town (as many customers here are) and they wanted to use a very specific product. They sampled all of the local products, and did not find what they were looking for.


A Good Scenario is a crapshoot. Why take the risk? You do realize the customer can care less if they waste your time? They believe there is an open buffet of time for their job, as we give a no-more, no less-price. The burden of a cost overrun is on our shoulders. Not theirs. 

What was the specific product? And what were they looking for?
A pretty can? lol
Paint Color?
Wash ability? 
Application ease? 

And why couldn’t you supply it? You have me scratching my head here. If you are a master painter with years of exp under your belt, why didn’t they ask you for a recommendation, and trust you know your stuff and just go with your recommendation? This is what I mean about placating the noob customer. 



Holland said:


> I realized quickly that this customer was less concerned with cost, and more concerned with results. It was obvious that he would be unhappy with a different product, and the fighting him on this issue would start things off on a bad footing.


Why would he be unhappy with BM Regal or SM Duration? The answer is, he is a novice. As stated in a prior post. HO’s don’t know jack when it comes to paints or painting. They believe anyone can paint. Don't be viewed as the "anyone can paint painter". It is your job as the expert to step up to the plate and make your professional recommendation.



Holland said:


> I explained that I was not familiar with the product, so I could offer no guarantees regarding workmanship, but that I would be willing to use whatever he provided, if he was agreeable to that condition. I also explained that he will need to have more stock on-hand than we would likely need, to avoid running short: Also, no problem.


Holland, I would have turned these people away. Ya see. I have been painting full time for 40 years and running my own business for 30 years. I have had a Sherwin Williams account for 30 years. I know their products like the back of my hand. I believe I am an expert in the field. SW & BM have the best paints on the market. Why would I want to play games with a ridiculous HO that knows absolutely nothing about painting compared to me, the expert? 

If a HO doesn’t trust my recommendation, they don’t trust me. If you don’t trust me, we don’t do business. I certainly don’t want to do business with HOs who bring the job down to a DIY level. 

If you're hurting for work, do what you feel comfortable doing. If you're not hurting, make your offer and set your terms. It’s your company, not theirs, and you are not their hourly employee.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

HC-Raad said:


> A Good Scenario is a crapshoot. Why take the risk? You do realize the customer can care less if they waste your time? They believe there is an open buffet of time for their job, as we give a no-more, no less-price. The burden of a cost overrun is on our shoulders. Not theirs.
> 
> What was the specific product? And what were they looking for?
> A pretty can? lol
> ...


@ HC,

I choose not to let it become a power struggle between the customer and myself, I don’t enjoy tense working environments. They’re paying. I figure they have the right to dictate what they want. If the product is completely wrong, then I’ll say something.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

HC-Raad said:


> .
> 
> What was the specific product? And what were they looking for?
> A pretty can? lol
> ...


This customer sampled almost every brand and sheen of oil based enamel on the market (BM Select, Pratt and Lambert, Sherwin Williams, Hollandlac, etc...). They re-painted all the doors, trim, base, etc... in their home. In the end they wanted what they wanted, which was unavailable in this region.

If the customer wants to pick it up, why do I care?


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

They also picked up all the wall paint (lol) because they wanted the same exact product they used in their last home (in another state).


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

[QUOTE=HC-Raad;

- You do realize the customer can care less if they waste your time? They believe there is an open buffet of time for their job, as we give a no-more, no less-price. 


- This is what I mean about placating the noob customer. 



- The answer is, he is a novice. As stated in a prior post. HO’s don’t know jack when it comes to paints or painting.


- I would have turned these people away.
- Why would I want to play games with a ridiculous HO that knows absolutely nothing about painting compared to me, the expert? 

-If a HO doesn’t trust my recommendation, they don’t trust me. If you don’t trust me, we don’t do business. I certainly don’t want to do business with HOs who bring the job down to a DIY level. 



I'm trying to figure out why anyone would trust you..


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## HC-Raad (Jan 26, 2017)

Keep fighting the good fight fellows. I hear you saying: let the incompetent, unqualified HO, supply the most vital part of my professional service The paint. 

And letting them do so is careless on the part of the professional. 

I guess if you are little Johnny and his paint brush, go for it. I am above this. Enjoy your day!


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## kmp (Jan 30, 2011)

HC-Raad said:


> Keep fighting the good fight fellows. I hear you saying: let the incompetent, unqualified HO, supply the most vital part of my professional service The paint.
> 
> And letting them do so is careless on the part of the professional.
> 
> I guess if you are little Johnny and his paint brush, go for it. I am above this. Enjoy your day!


I have followed this for the last little while, don't really know why as it has been beaten to death here before but I resent your attitude. H.O. supplies paint you apply and move on. Make a disclaimer about it in your contract. Do I like it no. Does it offend me? Not really. You strike me as the braggart type I meet in the paint store once and stay away from from then on. So take your ball and snide comments and go to the corner.


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

I’m wondering what some of your thoughts are on rather than being provided with product by a client, being provided with a finish specification by someone such as an architect, purchasing the product yourself, installing the product according to manufacturer’s specs, and having the product/finish fail..

I had just been reminded of this after receiving a phone call moments ago by an owner’s rep where I had sat in on an arbitration and provided neutral expert witness testimony as a result of a clear finish failure performed by another paint company. The homeowner was seeking $350K in damages to remediate the failure. It was also my understanding, although I may not be correct, in addition to the $350K, the client was also seeking damages for the loss of use of his home which included removing and storing the furnishings/contents and the cost of a comparable rental for a 120 day duration while the finish remediation was to be performed. Comparable monthly rentals in the area were ~ $300K/month. In total, the client was seeking in excess of $1.4 million. 

How would you protect yourself by being provided with a spec by a client or owner’s rep and having the finish fail when applied to spec?

In this particular instance the ruling was in favor of the contractor. From what I gathered, the deciding factor was that the client had been provided with a sample which he approved. Regardless of the failure, it was the client’s responsibility to subject the sample to the types of wear and abuses it would normally be subjected to in order to determine if it was suitable for the intended purpose. The bulk of the failure was water spotting. If the finish got so much as a drip of water on it, the water would result in a permanent white stain. 

You’ve really gotta CYA in this business when someone either provides product and/or a finish spec.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Redux said:


> I’m wondering what some of your thoughts are on rather than being provided with product by a client, being provided with a finish specification by someone such as an architect, purchasing the product yourself, installing the product according to manufacturer’s specs, and having the product/finish fail..



I have seen some architects here spec dead flat varnish on exterior steel roof because they think it hold up better than epoxy/urethane system. And yet there must be someone willing to apply them because it keeps getting spec'd.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

HC-Raad said:


> Keep fighting the good fight fellows. I hear you saying: let the incompetent, unqualified HO, supply the most vital part of my professional service The paint.
> 
> And letting them do so is careless on the part of the professional.
> 
> I guess if you are little Johnny and his paint brush, go for it. I am above this. Enjoy your day!


If that is what you truly took from this thread (and you aren’t just interested in stirring the pot) then I would say your comprehension skills are a little rusty. 

Most responded saying that _*occasionally*_ dealing with customer supplied paints wasn’t a big deal, with the caveat that they had a quality product. No one (that I can recall) said that having customers supplying the product was SOP for them.

Yeah, there was that one guy who because he was unable to foment and ask some basic questions beforehand (How much paint is on site? How old is it? etc. - a true “little Johnny with a paint brush”, IMO :devil3 had problems. But other than that, most had no big issue with it now and then.


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

For me, the upside of clients providing material was having been introduced to some really great products which I otherwise would have missed out on. FPOE, TNEMEC, Waterlox, Sutherland Welles, and IFP were a few brands which I’d never used, yet were supplied by clients, all of which paved the way for expanding my business’s product and services. I owe some of my success to those Noob clients that one poster mentioned.


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## Fman (Aug 20, 2011)

It can't always be a bad thing. It's the same thing as customers insisting on a paint brand that a painter might not be familiar with, but not supplying. When I lived down south I knew a lot of guys who were miffed that _Yankees_ would request Benjamin Moore. It was only available at a wall paper store that did not give any sort of a contractor discount. Maybe a hardware store or two- not sure.I think because it was pricey, some fellas were afraid to mark it up. Some thought it was "too thick". None seemed to want to get used to it. Their bad


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## K-Boom Paint (Apr 2, 2018)

I discourage this a great amount unless We talked prior. I like purchasing the paint and developing a solid working relationship with the supplier. I also take pride in recommending products that can do a better job for the surface to be painted. Im the pro, most homeowners run to the box store and grab Whatever was on sale. I’d much rather pay more for the material and have great confidence that it will finish how I expect.


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## HC-Raad (Jan 26, 2017)

RH said:


> Yeah, there was that one guy who because he was unable to foment and ask some basic questions beforehand (How much paint is on site? How old is it? etc. - a true “little Johnny with a paint brush”, IMO :devil3 had problems. But other than that, most had no big issue with it now and then.


I'm not trying to stir any pot. I haven't read every post. 

RH, I have never in 40 year come across a customer that buys 1 quart of paint to paint the trim on their house. Yes, I assumed he bought 1 gallon. So there was no need to ask him how many gallons he has, as only 1 gallon was needed. Don't blame this one on me. It's not the customers job to supply paint to begin with. So the contractor should never have to ask a client how much paint they bought for the job. 

At an estimate, if a customer asks me who buys the paint, I always make it clear that I do. My only exception to the rule is if the customer has already purchased the paint and I need the job. That is rare. 

BTW - here is a photo of the house where the client supplied 1 quart of paint to paint the trim in the front only. Everything gray and blue was getting painted, including his front doors.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

It's your thread, and you haven't read every post? 
A good thread has room for discussion and exchange of ideas.

Why not just let one guy start painting, while the other guy stays on the clock to get a gallon of paint? 

*Explain to the customer that you will need to add the charges to the total when you bill him out: 1 gallon paint, +1.5 hrs (or whatever time it takes).


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## HC-Raad (Jan 26, 2017)

Holland said:


> It's your thread, and you haven't read every post?
> A good thread has room for discussion and exchange of ideas.


No, I've been working 24/7. I even worked New Years Eve and New Years Day. :sad: I have a lot of work on my plate and I am going on vacation to Florida on February 10th, so I have to tighten up jobs before I go.


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## HC-Raad (Jan 26, 2017)

Redux said:


> For me, the upside of clients providing material was having been introduced to some really great products which I otherwise would have missed out on. FPOE, TNEMEC, Waterlox, Sutherland Welles, and IFP were a few brands which I’d never used, yet were supplied by clients, all of which paved the way for expanding my business’s product and services. I owe some of my success to those Noob clients that one poster mentioned.


I have tried and tested every product on the market many years ago. With BM, there is absolutely no need to purchase paint elsewhere. Plus they deliver to the job site. And that is very convenient.

The only paint a customer turned me on to is behr and valspar. No thanks!

The best thing i have ever learned from a HO is to not let them do the thinking. I am the one being paid to do that!


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

HC-Raad said:


> Bill, there are a lot more variables to the contractor buying the paint vs the HO buying, than the paint itself being good or bad.
> 
> Example: For a small exterior trim paint job, i had a homeowner tell me over the phone, they had already bought the paint and started painting themselves. Ask me if i could finish. I agreed. They told me, the day i start the job, the paint would be on the porch when i arrive.
> 
> ...


Yes, frustrating that the customer only had a quart waiting for you. But if the store was fairly close, why not just go get some more (as has already been suggested) and bill the customer accordingly? You make it sound like the two of you were sitting around twiddling your thumbs waiting for the customer to remedy the situation. Guess I don’t understand why, as soon as you got there and assessed the situation, one of you didn’t head off for more paint while the other started setting up.

Then when the customer did come home and offered to go get more paint, you (apparently) declined his offer? What then, did the two of you just continue to sit around? Sorry, but something about this whole scenario doesn’t make much sense, at least to me.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

HC-Raad said:


> I have tried and tested every product on the market many years ago.


Your information is likely outdated by now.


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## HC-Raad (Jan 26, 2017)

Holland said:


> HC-Raad said:
> 
> 
> > I have tried and tested every product on the market many years ago.
> ...


What's out dated? Behr, valspar, Olympic and other HD products suck? 

Fyi - i test drive every new Bm and Sw product that comes out. And these are the leading brands in my region. There is absolutely no need to experiment with HO paints. It's my job to know what is best. And i do. 

I am not stuck using the same can of paint that i used 40 years ago. Technology is always updating. The HO can't teach me anything. That's for sure.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

HC-Raad said:


> What's out dated? Behr, valspar, Olympic and other HD products suck?
> 
> Fyi - i test drive every new Bm and Sw product that comes out. And these are the leading brands in my region. There is absolutely no need to experiment with HO paints. It's my job to know what is best. And i do.
> 
> I am not stuck using the same can of paint that i used 40 years ago. Technology is always updating. The HO can't teach me anything. That's for sure.


It is funny that you say you are not stuck using old paints. I like trying every new tool, paint, and gadget that I can get my hands on. Apparently I am the only local painter that uses the Kvord bags (no one else would buy them so they gave them to me any time I needed a new one) and the plastic paint brush holders (the ones that were on Shark tank).
I had a conversation with the guys at my paint shop one day and they were telling me that there are many painters that refuse to use BM RS, Advance or Aura. They only use Regal (the older one) because that is what they have always used and know and will try nothing newer.

Sent from my SM-A600U using Tapatalk


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Pete Martin the Painter said:


> Apparently I am the only local painter that uses the Kvord bags


Okay, gotta ask...You actually like the Kvord Bags? 

I am going to be skeptical for a moment. I would love for this to be the perfect product, as it looks convenient and streamlined. I have not tried them, but I am open to being convinced. 

Don't the insides get coated with paint? Stick together sometimes? zipper stop working? Dry paint flakes into the tray? Get in the way while waiting for the inside to dry out? 

I typically use garbage bags, but the costs can eventually add up, and is one more thing to buy/have on hand.


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

The plastic brush keepers and Kvord bags never made sense to me. It seems like you're paying a premium for something that is already available free of charge....the plastic bags you get your groceries in. Well at least in PA the bags are still legal and readily available. And when the brushes are clean and dry, that's what the keeper the brush came with is for.

If you run out, you can just pilfer the bag recycle bin at the grocery store. Ask the manager first, but I've never been refused.

For a standard roller tray you need two bags....one slipped over each end. It will generally keep fine overnight. I would hardly ever keep paint in tray overnight, but if I needed to put a tray aside for a few hours, I used this method.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Lightningboy65 said:


> The plastic brush keepers and Kvord bags never made sense to me. It seems like you're paying a premium for something that is already available free of charge....the plastic bags you get your groceries in. Well at least in PA the bags are still legal and readily available. And when the brushes are clean and dry, that's what the keeper the brush came with is for.
> 
> If you run out, you can just pilfer the bag recycle bin at the grocery store. Ask the manager first, but I've never been refused.
> 
> For a standard roller tray you need two bags....one slipped over each end. It will generally keep fine overnight. I would hardly ever keep paint in tray overnight, but if I needed to put a tray aside for a few hours, I used this method.


I just use plain old plastic wrap for rollers and brushes (but brushes get cleaned at day’s end). A plain, clean plastic garbage bag works well to place the paint tray, roller, and brush in if I need to take an extended break.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

Holland said:


> Okay, gotta ask...You actually like the Kvord Bags?
> 
> I am going to be skeptical for a moment. I would love for this to be the perfect product, as it looks convenient and streamlined. I have not tried them, but I am open to being convinced.
> 
> ...


They do not last forever, and paint does get dried on the inside of them, but not enough to causei ssues. I have never had paint flake off the inside and get into fresh paint I love them and use them all the time and have been using them for a least 4 years. The zippers are really big. So, they can take the constant use. I even fit the big Wooster 14 in rollwr buckets. But I only use the bags with them when I want to store the paint over night.

Sent from my SM-A600U using Tapatalk


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## Fman (Aug 20, 2011)

Lightningboy65 said:


> The plastic brush keepers and Kvord bags never made sense to me. It seems like you're paying a premium for something that is already available free of charge....the plastic bags you get your groceries in. Well at least in PA the bags are still legal and readily available. And when the brushes are clean and dry, that's what the keeper the brush came with is for.
> 
> If you run out, you can just pilfer the bag recycle bin at the grocery store. Ask the manager first, but I've never been refused.
> 
> For a standard roller tray you need two bags....one slipped over each end. It will generally keep fine overnight. I would hardly ever keep paint in tray overnight, but if I needed to put a tray aside for a few hours, I used this method.


I have it on pretty good authority that the grocery store puts those recycled bags in the dumpster. Shameful.


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## HC-Raad (Jan 26, 2017)

finishesbykevyn said:


> ​
> I've had plenty of customers, especially lonely housewives ask me what kind of paint to buy and how much. It makes them feel important..like they're helping.


I provide a painting service (with a bottom-line price) and after 42 years in this business, I have found that letting the customer have any involvement in the service I am providing, is ALWAYS counterproductive. Not only am I an expert at painting, I am also an expert at running my business to include; picking up the proper paints and materials and making sure they are on the jobsite on time, running the job, organizing the job, organizing the man power, overseeing the production and efficiency of the over-all job, quality control, responsible and legally liable for the customers property and the end result of the paint product. If you are worried about placating the "lonely housewives" :surprise: and getting them involved in the service you were hired to provide, you are foolish and have some learning to do. You are not the customers employee - remember that!

The best help any client can do to help me provide my service at 100% effectiveness, is to leave for the day and let me do all the thinking throughout the course of the job. The only thing I need from the client during the course of the job is a signed contract, paint colors and the check. That's it brother!



finishesbykevyn said:


> I tell them exactly what to buy and how much. 4 Gals. Aura Matt and 3 gals Ultra Spec Flat. Thanks. In those cases, I don't mind one bit.


In your case, I see a small time painter, working for wages. 



finishesbykevyn said:


> You just sound like a little bit of control freak


I own my company (and I am a sole proprietor), I manage my business well, by doing my own payroll, taxes, marketing, hiring, scheduling, and making intelligent decision based on years of experience. As soon as you let the customer manage the job and service you are providing, you will lose time and time is money.

That sounds freaky to you? You sound like a guy that has a lot to learn. Most painters are exactly that "painters" and very few are good businessmen. 
Again, I've been at this since 1978. And believe it or not, I was like you when I was young and dumb. But one day, after years of beating my head against a brick wall (struggling and making chump change), I figured out how to run a profitable business and make 6 figures annually!


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

This poor dead horse really has taken quite a beating.


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## HC-Raad (Jan 26, 2017)

Wildbill7145 said:


> This poor dead horse really has taken quite a beating.


Bill, todays post wasn't even about "who buys the paint". This comment by Kevin needed to be addressed. *"You just sound like a little bit of control freak"!* 

The short answer is, yes, I control my business as I should. Not the customer. :wink:


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

A response to a post from January? That’s usually a move made by rookies. Shame on you HC! 





:devil3:


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## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

RH said:


> A response to a post from January? That’s usually a move made by rookies. Shame on you HC!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



And on page 2 of a 6 page conversation. Took me a while to even find it. I'm trying to remember how to spell overreaction. But it's not coming to me right now.:whistling2: :wink:


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## jennifertemple (Oct 30, 2011)

Joe67 said:


> And on page 2 of a 6 page conversation. Took me a while to even find it. I'm trying to remember how to spell overreaction. But it's not coming to me right now.:whistling2: :wink:


:vs_laugh:


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

HC-Raad said:


> I provide a painting service (with a bottom-line price) and after 42 years in this business, I have found that letting the customer have any involvement in the service I am providing, is ALWAYS counterproductive. Not only am I an expert at painting, I am also an expert at running my business to include; picking up the proper paints and materials and making sure they are on the jobsite on time, running the job, organizing the job, organizing the man power, overseeing the production and efficiency of the over-all job, quality control, responsible and legally liable for the customers property and the end result of the paint product. If you are worried about placating the "lonely housewives" :surprise: and getting them involved in the service you were hired to provide, you are foolish and have some learning to do. You are not the customers employee - remember that!
> 
> The best help any client can do to help me provide my service at 100% effectiveness, is to leave for the day and let me do all the thinking throughout the course of the job. The only thing I need from the client during the course of the job is a signed contract, paint colors and the check. That's it brother!
> 
> ...


Wow. That's been building up since January. This whole provide your own paint thing really makes you lose sleep at night eh.? Your making alot of assumptions here and this is not a black and white world. I've been a journeyman painter since 2000 and have been a sole proprieter since 1996. It doesn't take a genious to go buy a gallon of paint. I know you think you have to be.. I'm so over it dude. Whatever makes you sleep at night. Next.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Wow. That's been building up since January. This whole provide your own paint thing really makes you lose sleep at night eh.? Your making alot of assumptions here and this is not a black and white world. I've been a journeyman painter since 2000 and have been a sole proprieter since 1996. It doesn't take a genious to go buy a gallon of paint. I know you think you have to be.. I'm so over it dude. Whatever makes you sleep at night. Next.


Please tell me you misspelled “genius” on purpose. :wink::devil3:


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

RH said:


> Please tell me you misspelled “genius” on purpose. :wink::devil3:



At first I thought "Genious" was a Canadian thing I'd never heard of! Made me question my Canadianous temporarily until I looked it up.


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## jennifertemple (Oct 30, 2011)

Wildbill7145 said:


> At first I thought "Genious" was a Canadian thing I'd never heard of! Made me question my Canadianous temporarily until I looked it up.


"genious", isn't that work done by a genie? A sort of magical mode of production? :vs_smirk:


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

jennifertemple said:


> "genious", isn't that work done by a genie? A sort of magical mode of production? :vs_smirk:


Speaking of Genies my wife and I were out for dinner at a steakhouse we used to frequent years ago when lo and behold in walks Barbara Eden and her then husband Charles Fegert, and they were seated at the table next to us.

I had to do a double-take, she was Jeannie, sitting just a few feet away from us. And yes she was just as beautiful in person as she was on TV. We didn't want to interrupt her and her husband but I just couldn't take my eyes off of her which was noticed by my wife who kept nudging me under the table to stop staring.

It turns out she was married to this guy for 6 years and he was a newspaper exec for the Chicago Sun-Times and became her manager among others in show biz. She lived in the area while married to him when she wasn't working.





She still a beautiful, classy lady at the age of 88.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

RH said:


> Please tell me you misspelled “genius” on purpose. :wink::devil3:


Dang! Almost pulled it off.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Dang! Almost pulled it off.


That’s okay. I once posted on here about using my airless for “spaying”. My dog and cat refused to even look at me for a month.:sad:


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## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

I'm in Amuairicah. I'll spel genyus however I want. It's mie rite.


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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

anyone who insists on supplying paint my labor costs go up 20%. call it a karen tax, only karens want to control the building material


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

RH said:


> That’s okay. I once posted on here about using my airless for “spaying”. My dog and cat refused to even look at me for a month.:sad:


So is that what the Vets use? Graco or Titan?


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