# Why lowballers are great!!!!



## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

In the spirit of a few here who are so terribly effected by "low ballers" that they have to think of and devise a way to "beat them". This thread will be dedicated to all of the reasons why "low ballers" have helped your business.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> In the spirit of a few here who are so terribly effected by "low ballers" that they have to think of and devise a way to "beat them". This thread will be dedicated to all of the reasons why "low ballers" have helped your business.


If there werent low end painters, how would the market ever determine what a high end business looked like?


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Stealing Dan's thunder? lol

Maybe they are the ones taking all the red flag customers. 


This post made me 7000 posts.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

It has been an effective part of our marketig campaign. Pick me I'm cheap


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

The best education a HO can get is thru a bad experience.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

No kidding. A word to the wise:

You will never NEVER _ever_ stop the tide of lowballers.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

I dont want to. I love me a good low baller.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Since they aren't normally licensed and insured, they can't even bid on some of my work.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

bikerboy said:


> Since they aren't normally licensed and insured, they can't even bid on some of my work.


I'm confused. You advertise as a house painter. Are there house painting police in MD?


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

As I have stated many times in the past: Lowballers aren't my competition.


Scrawling around with them in the dirt is deplorable, and degrading.

i love me a proper thread!


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> I'm confused. You advertise as a house painter. Are there house painting police in MD?


Actually there is a regulating arm, but as far as most can tell they do little to nothing. But most builders, remodelers and a few homeowners only want a licensed and insured company. (specially builders)

The vast bulk of what we do is res repaint, but we do a little nc and some wallpaper stripping for remodelers/builders.


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## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

I look better when I have to fix a hack job done by a lowballer


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

NEPS.US said:


> The best education a HO can get is thru a bad experience.


Absolutely.

I have a patented saying for clients suffering poor paint workmanship:

"Nothing worse than having to pay for terrible work."

contract signed.


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> I'm confused. You advertise as a house painter. Are there house painting police in MD?


 
its called educating the home owner, works sometimes, sometimes it doesn't:whistling2:


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

I don't give em much thought. You should find other things to think about. :thumbsup:


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> The best education a HO can get is thru a bad experience.


 :thumbsup:
these are defiantly good clients once you please them. They no longer are price shoppers that for sure.


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

NEPS.US said:


> I'm confused. You advertise as a house painter. Are there house painting police in MD?


 Just to jump in here. When we work in gated communities here in New York and any type of co-op we're required to provide all the necessary paperwork in order to work in the complex. I am always happy to oblige. It's nice when someone asks-like my wife getting proofed to buy beer-always makes her day


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> In the spirit of a few here who are so terribly effected by "low ballers" that they have to think of and devise a way to "beat them". This thread will be dedicated to all of the reasons why "low ballers" have helped your business.


 
lowballers are bad for the industry end of story:whistling2:

Neps do run across many in the commerical market, I would think it would be harder for them to enter that market wich is a good thing imo


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

I dont do as much commercial as you think Dave. In my experience over the last couple of years the commercial market has been as bad as ever with low ball pricing.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

ewingpainting.net said:


> I don't give em much thought. You should find other things to think about. :thumbsup:


I agree Gabe but in spirit of the tone of a few threads of late I thought a thread to talk about the positives of low ballers would be fun for discussion.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> If there werent low end painters, how would the market ever determine what a high end business looked like?


 
Anyone want to comment on this post? It seems to have been ignored.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> Anyone want to comment on this post? It seems to have been ignored.


I will! Oh wait...


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

I tell my customers I don't use caulk to patch nail holes. I tell them lowballers will use caulk, and I scare them into signing with me. I love lowballers because of this.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

NEPS.US said:


> I agree Gabe but in spirit of the tone of a few threads of late I thought a thread to talk about the positives of low ballers would be fun for discussion.


I thought my post was a positive thought of low ballers


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

TJ Paint said:


> I tell my customers I don't use caulk to patch nail holes. I tell them lowballers will use caulk, and I scare them into signing with me. I love lowballers because of this.


:whistling2:


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## bigjeffie61520 (Oct 3, 2009)




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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

Lambrecht said:


> I look better when I have to fix a hack job done by a lowballer


 Not all lowballers are hacks,,,,, How do you look when the lowballer does it better and in 1/2 the time??

I guess we could get the govment to haul em all of to concentration camps.

Love the way we call ourselves contractors,,,, we ain't boys, were sub-contractors. 

Words do mean things ya know


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## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Not all lowballers are hacks,,,,, How do you look when the lowballer does it better and in 1/2 the time??
> 
> I guess we could get the govment to haul em all of to concentration camps.
> 
> ...


Well, if the lowballer did a better job in 1/2 the time then I would not be there fixing it now would I?


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

Lambrecht said:


> Well, if the lowballer did a better job in 1/2 the time then I would not be there fixing it now would I?


 Was it the lowballers job or the hacks job???? Need imput


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## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Was it the lowballers job or the hacks job???? Need imput


I don't think all lowballers are hacks but more often than not it is the case. Some good workers lowball to keep food on the plate, totally understandable in today's economy. However, when the lowballer cuts corners and does substandard work he then where the hat of the hack.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

Lambrecht said:


> I don't think all lowballers are hacks but more often than not it is the case. Some good workers lowball to keep food on the plate, totally understandable in today's economy. However, when the lowballer cuts corners and does substandard work he then where the hat of the hack.


 I agree with that 100%, but what of the no-baller like me that can do it in 1/2 the time and still produce a quaility job. I'm not just putting food on the table, I'm making money.


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## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I agree with that 100%, but what of the no-baller like me that can do it in 1/2 the time and still produce a quaility job. I'm not just putting food on the table, I'm making money.


I guess I would have to ask why if you can do it in half the time are you not charging a normal rate so that you can maximize profits? Isn't maximizing profit a basic foundation of business? Do you think that in the last 30 years if you had been maximizing profit that you would still be having to go to work everyday? Lowballing does have it's drawbacks.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Love the way we call ourselves contractors,,,, we ain't boys, were sub-contractors.
> 
> Words do mean things ya know


 
Your words really do mean things Capt. You may be a sub, your guys may also be subs and that it probably because you have no idea what being a contractor and owning a business really is. You own a sub contracting job and are happy with what you make, but there is so much more to your actions.

IMO, your a hack. Not just in the work you perform but in the manner in which you conduct "business". Your not just a lowballer because you dont know any better, your a hack because you choose to cut corners and cheat the system of running a legitimate business. You cant compete on a level playing field with other "contractors" so you choose to lower your overhead by cheating in order to slash your prices to obtain work to put more money in your pocket. 

Guys like you will never be stopped and thats ok. There is a market out there for you. For every hack there is a hack builder or gc looking to hire you to save a buck in return. Many will slip through the cracks of the system and never be caught while in some cases many will be caught and have to pay hefty fines. I wish you luck.

I hope that someday the gov't puts as much energy into stopping illegal businesses as they do in creating new laws, fines and rules for the small percentage of legal small businesses that struggle to survive.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

Lambrecht said:


> I guess I would have to ask why if you can do it in half the time are you not charging a normal rate so that you can maximize profits? Isn't maximizing profit a basic foundation of business? Do you think that in the last 30 years if you had been maximizing profit that you would still be having to go to work everyday? Lowballing does have it's drawbacks.


 Well, I work everyday cause I like it,,, I disdain running a bus, I am strictly a "sticks and bricks" guy. I do it in 1/2 the time cause I am a recovering drywaller, we work like we are fighting fire. If I am consistantly making twice what you are in a month, why should I change that. (not speaking of you personally, but in general to answer your question).

As for the last 30 years, I could retire today, but I LOVE to work, okay???  

Why does lowballing have its drawbacks, just cause you don't like it???

I guess its the "hack" thing,,,,anyone that charges less than you do is a hack,,, am I right??


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## Different Strokes (Dec 8, 2010)

WisePainter said:


> Absolutely.
> 
> I have a patented saying for clients suffering poor paint workmanship:
> 
> ...


Nothings worse than paying for terrible work, and then getting sued by the guy that falls off the ladder w/o comp ins. I'm sure that happens from time to time.


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## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Well, I work everyday cause I like it,,, I disdain running a bus, I am strictly a "sticks and bricks" guy. I do it in 1/2 the time cause I am a recovering drywaller, we work like we are fighting fire. If I am consistantly making twice what you are in a month, why should I change that. (not speaking of you personally, but in general to answer your question).
> 
> As for the last 30 years, I could retire today, but I LOVE to work, okay???
> 
> ...


No, not everyone that charges less then me is a hack, I am priced pretty high compared to many others in my area. I lose jobs all the time to lower bids and they are not hacks. However, if I charge less then what I do it does not fit into meeting my financial or business goals. I love to work but I have no intention on having to work any longer then I have to.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

NEPS.US said:


> Your words really do mean things Capt. You may be a sub, your guys may also be subs and that it probably because you have no idea what being a contractor and owning a business really is. You own a sub contracting job and are happy with what you make, but there is so much more to your actions.
> 
> IMO, your a hack. Not just in the work you perform but in the manner in which you conduct "business". Your not just a lowballer because you dont know any better, your a hack because you choose to cut corners and cheat the system of running a legitimate business. You cant compete on a level playing field with other "contractors" so you choose to lower your overhead by cheating in order to slash your prices to obtain work to put more money in your pocket.
> 
> ...


 First Neps I do know what being a contractor means,,, I got my GC lic in NC in 1996, SC in 1997 and FL in 1997. I really do know the differance in a contractor and a sub-contractor. When I paint or do drywall, it is as a sub-contractor for a contractor or a home owner.

I do not avoid taxes cause I need the money, I avoid them because our government is corrupt and I don't like giving money to commies, okay???

Again, just cause I dissagree with you I'm a hack???? No, I'm a low-baller and a no-baller,,,,but not a hack,,,,,,, thank ya now !!!!


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

Lambrecht said:


> No, not everyone that charges less then me is a hack, I am priced pretty high compared to many others in my area. I lose jobs all the time to lower bids and they are not hacks. However, if I charge less then what I do it does not fit into meeting my financial or business goals. I love to work but I have no intention on having to work any longer then I have to.


 Nothing wrong with that Lam,,, We all have our dreams and ambitions, I hope you find what you are looking for.


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> As for the last 30 years, I could retire today, but I LOVE to work, okay???
> 
> Why does lowballing have its drawbacks, just cause you don't like it???
> 
> I guess its the "hack" thing,,,,anyone that charges less than you do is a hack,,, am I right??


 Has been it difficult to save the kind of money you have for retirement while doing a lot of "off the books work". How do you save that kind of cash and invest it? Do you have a retirement plan set-up? I just read an article that was saying that $1,000,000 is no longer enough to retire on. What about health insurance? Are you and your family protected or do you have enough cash stashed away that it is not a concern? Not that social security will be anybody's saviour,but have you paid in enough to get anything back at retirement, or are you set up well enough not to have to be concerned about that. I am not criticizing you, I am just interested in your philosophy. My first impression of what I've read would be that the contractors you work for are actually using you-I hope that for your sake that is not the case.
Cliff


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

CliffK said:


> Has been it difficult to save the kind of money you have for retirement while doing a lot of "off the books work". How do you save that kind of cash and invest it? Do you have a retirement plan set-up? I just read an article that was saying that $1,000,000 is no longer enough to retire on. What about health insurance? Are you and your family protected or do you have enough cash stashed away that it is not a concern? Not that social security will be anybody's saviour,but have you paid in enough to get anything back at retirement, or are you set up well enough not to have to be concerned about that. I am not criticizing you, I am just interested in your philosophy. My first impression of what I've read would be that the contractors you work for are actually using you-I hope that for your sake that is not the case.
> Cliff


 alot of questions 
Its no harder to save money for me than it is for you


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Capt, why do it part way? You know what it takes and you do it to the minimum?


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

CliffK said:


> Has been it difficult to save the kind of money you have for retirement while doing a lot of "off the books work". How do you save that kind of cash and invest it? Do you have a retirement plan set-up? I just read an article that was saying that $1,000,000 is no longer enough to retire on. What about health insurance? Are you and your family protected or do you have enough cash stashed away that it is not a concern? Not that social security will be anybody's saviour,but have you paid in enough to get anything back at retirement, or are you set up well enough not to have to be concerned about that. I am not criticizing you, I am just interested in your philosophy. My first impression of what I've read would be that the contractors you work for are actually using you-I hope that for your sake that is not the case.
> Cliff


 Alot of questions,,

Its no harder for me to save money than it is for you.

Health insurance,,, nope, got none and don't want none thank ya, when I can't do what I'm doing now, I'm ready to go. Give me liberty or give me death. Can't smoke in the hospital, rather die at home.

I made sure to get my "credits in", even tho I hated paying them taxes too, but its their rule book after all.

I invest, but not in traditional things,,, for instance, its easy enough to loan a GC 10k for 90 days at 5% rather than the stock market.Heck for an example you turn a lb af grass and make 600.00 in an hour,,,, more things out there than a 401k plan ya know.

And yes, I have enough money buried in the back yard to sit on the couch and drink myself to death should I decide to retire


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

Workaholic said:


> Capt, why do it part way? You know what it takes and you do it to the minimum?


Work, I sell a service,,,, If you want it cheap, I can deliver, If you want it right, I can do that too,,,,,,,,

But you can't have em both,,,, I want ALL the jobs, and I'm WAY past thinking too highly of myself


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

capt what happens if one of your workers get hurt on a job?


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Dave Mac said:


> capt what happens if one of your workers get hurt on a job?


Buy em a plain ticket back to Brazil or simply call their P.O..


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> And yes, I have enough money buried in the back yard to sit on the couch and drink myself to death should I decide to retire


I hope the cold aint a killin next years seed money Cap'n!


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

Actually, I tell em up front,, I have no comp ins for you and nothing you can sue me for, so If you want to work lets go, if not,,, I can give you the names of some painters that pay less so they can insure you.

Straight from the lips of a no-baller


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

Capt what do you consider low dead president rates??


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

Dave Mac said:


> Capt what do you consider low dead president rates??


 I think you misread that,,,,, green dead presidents (cash)


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I think you misread that,,,,, green dead presidents (cash)


 
yea, i mean what are your cash rates


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Alot of questions,,
> 
> Its no harder for me to save money than it is for you.
> 
> ...


 Thanks for the response. Certainly sounds like you have it all figured out. You make some interesting arguments-not all of them scrupulous, but interesting. Only time will tell if it works out in the end. I hope for your sake it does. You sound like a hard worker and I respect you for that. I can't respect you for taking advantage of people who work for you though, and that is what's happening when you pay off the books. My instincts still tell me that it is you who is being used. I wish you luck...


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

Dave Mac said:


> yea, i mean what are your cash rates


 Anytime anyone asks me if I can do it cheapeer for cash, I tell em, yes, 10% off for cash (dead green presidents) not a check, a check is not cash,,,lol. This policy has me filling a return this year of 0 income. Took me 30 minutes to file this year,,,:thumbsup:


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Anytime anyone asks me if I can do it cheapeer for cash, I tell em, yes, 10% off for cash (dead green presidents) not a check, a check is not cash,,,lol. This policy has me filling a return this year of 0 income. Took me 30 minutes to file this year,,,:thumbsup:


It's a good thing IRS agents never surf boards like this.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

CliffK said:


> Thanks for the response. Certainly sounds like you have it all figured out. You make some interesting arguments-not all of them scrupulous, but interesting. Only time will tell if it works out in the end. I hope for your sake it does. You sound like a hard worker and I respect you for that. I can't respect you for taking advantage of people who work for you though, and that is what's happening when you pay off the books. My instincts still tell me that it is you who is being used. I wish you luck...


 Cliff, I don't take advantage of people that work for me,, I don't use any illegals, I hire guys that need work, I pay em in cash, I make sure the scaffolds and walk boards are safe, If I won't get on em, I don't ask them too. They are making money and I am too. I haven't had a guy "quit" me in over 10 years except when they were going onto a better job. Whats wrong with that???


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Anytime anyone asks me if I can do it cheapeer for cash, I tell em, yes, 10% off for cash (dead green presidents) not a check, a check is not cash,,,lol. This policy has me filling a return this year of 0 income. Took me 30 minutes to file this year,,,:thumbsup:


Capt, just a suggestion, but you might want to think twice about posting information like that on the internet. I'm honestly speechless.......


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

Thanks, Chris, this is the best thread I have ever read on this forum. I am laughing my balls off!


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

plainpainter said:


> Thanks, Chris, this is the best thread I have ever read on this forum. I am laughing my balls off!


Dan

When you are happy, pt becomes a happier place.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

plainpainter said:


> Thanks, Chris, this is the best thread I have ever read on this forum. I am laughing my balls off!


I had you in mind my friend.:thumbsup:


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Capt, just a suggestion, but you might want to think twice about posting information like that on the internet. I'm honestly speechless.......


 Really???? You mean BIg Brother is watching???? I have nothing to hide,,, I do everything EXCATLLY like their rule book says to do it. (even if I can't spell). The burden of proof is on the IRS,, (thanks to Reagan), I don't have an skelitons in the closet (tax wise that is)


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Really???? You mean BIg Brother is watching???? I have nothing to hide,,, I do everything EXCATLLY like their rule book says to do it. (even if I can't spell). The burden of proof is on the IRS,, (thanks to Reagan), I don't have an skelitons in the closet (tax wise that is)


I read in your post that you did not pay or claim your income for last year. Now, I seriously doubt that the IRS is reading this site, but would be concerned about someone _reporting me_.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> I read in your post that you did not pay or claim your income for last year. Now, I seriously doubt that the IRS is reading this site, but would be concerned about someone _reporting me_.


What are they going to do, freeze his checking account until they can track down all of his invoices and deposits that never happened?

The Cap'n is a rare breed. He probably even paid his rent in cash for '11 on Jan 1. I think its kinda cool. But then, I'm John Wayne, Johnnie Cash and John Deere over here. 

:jester:


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> What are they going to do, freeze his checking account until they can track down all of his invoices and deposits that never happened?
> 
> The Cap'n is a rare breed. He probably even paid his rent in cash for '11 on Jan 1. I think its kinda cool. But then, I'm John Wayne, Johnnie Cash and John Deere over here.
> 
> :jester:


 
I don't know, that way of thinking is just beyond me.....


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> I don't know, that way of thinking is just beyond me.....


I have a friend who lives like the Cap'n. He is a excavator operator. He lives by the Bill of Rights. Its extremely narcissistic and hypocritical. But, hey, its fun to fantasize that its 1776 but absorb as much benefit from modern society as possible without having to contribute a dime toward it. 

I asked my buddy, Sherm, the excavator, how it was ok for him to pay no taxes, not register, inspect or insure his car, but use the roads. You should have heard the answer about how that was ok.


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## y.painting (Jul 19, 2009)

vermontpainter said:


> ...how it was ok for him to pay no taxes, not register, inspect or insure his car, but use the roads. You should have heard the answer about how that was ok.


I have absolutely no problem with anyone not paying a dime in taxes as long as they, by signed contract and punishable by law, aren't allowed to, for example, stumble into the ER with an open-bone fracture and get treatment or call the police when they need them or have the military fight to defend their claim to liberty/property or have any access to the legal system to protect their rights or be able to send their kids to a public school or be allowed to drive on any public roads or have any public-access water going to their house or be allowed to visit any national parks or......

In the words of a past Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes - "Taxes are what we pay for civilized society." And if you don't want to pay them, you shouldn't be allowed to enjoy the benefits of such a society!


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

y.painting said:


> I have absolutely no problem with anyone not paying a dime in taxes as long as they, by signed contract and punishable by law, aren't allowed to, for example, stumble into the ER with an open-bone fracture and get treatment or call the police when they need them or have the military fight to defend their claim to liberty/property or have any access to the legal system to protect their rights or be able to send their kids to a public school or be allowed to drive on any public roads or have any public-access water going to their house or be allowed to visit any national parks or......
> 
> In the words of a past Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes - "Taxes are what we pay for civilized society." And if you don't want to pay them, you shouldn't be allowed to enjoy the benefits of such a society!



Thats why the word 'narcissistic' is used in relation to this belief system. It takes a special person to justify selective participation in a society. It does come with its pitfalls for those who choose that path.


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## LOSTinDETAILS (Jun 17, 2009)

vermontpainter said:


> But then, I'm John Wayne, Johnnie Cash and John Deere over here.


Sorry, not possible for a yank.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

vermontpainter said:


> I have a friend who lives like the Cap'n. He is a excavator operator. He lives by the Bill of Rights. Its extremely narcissistic and hypocritical. But, hey, its fun to fantasize that its 1776 but absorb as much benefit from modern society as possible without having to contribute a dime toward it.
> 
> I asked my buddy, Sherm, the excavator, how it was ok for him to pay no taxes, not register, inspect or insure his car, but use the roads. You should have heard the answer about how that was ok.


actually he does pay tax for the roads. every time he puts gasoline in his car or diesel in his payloaders the tax on the fuel goes to road funds.

Most Americans don't realize how screwed over they are by federal taxes. But most people won't accept any other truth than the one thats handed down to them. They simply believe what they're told. 

I would have less problems with paying federal taxes (not state and city) if there was actual representation for the taxation, which was the basic impetus for the revolution. In short, why are country was founded in the first place. If the fed could show me where my tax dollars are going, so we could, as constituents, hold those in power accountable for where and how my money is being spent. Remember, its our money. 

Take a look at the SSI situation. Our money is shipped to the fed govt, and we are told its held in trust, but thats not true. As soon as they get it, its spent. 

When our national debt is where its at, obviously those on the federal level are not being held responsible. We are virtually enslaving our children. Im phucking ashamed at this legacy of ours. In my opinion, its not American. And the sh$t is going to hit the fan eventually because of this. The chickens will come home to roost.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

TJ Paint said:


> actually he does pay tax for the roads. every time he puts gasoline in his car or diesel in his payloaders the tax on the fuel goes to road funds.


Well in _that _case then........ :jester:


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Well in _that _case then........ :jester:


hey, just making the point. I think most americans are completely clueless how our tax system works, whether right or wrong, or good or bad. I think keeping people confused and betting on the apathy thats all around helps. 

How many of you can list off the powers that are delegated to the Fed govt, and the tax authorized to be levied from that power? If you can't answer this, how do know if that power is being abused?


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## y.painting (Jul 19, 2009)

TJ Paint said:


> actually he does pay tax for the roads. every time he puts gasoline in his car or diesel in his payloaders the tax on the fuel goes to road funds.


For the federal highways. Not for city and town roads. 

Or pedestrian paths, for that matter. So if he drives up to the city on the highway, poor guy can't even use the sidewalks to walk into town


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

y.painting said:


> For the federal highways. Not for city and town roads.
> 
> Or pedestrian paths, for that matter. So if he drives up to the city on the highway, poor guy can't even use the sidewalks to walk into town


city pays for stuff by in part from salestax. this guy in question would be paying for the city expenditures as well.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

I've read this thread through a couple of times and just shake my head like Paul.:no:

But then after watching a Monty Python movie late last nite, I just imagined it as one of their comedy routines, complete with voices and laughed my butt off.:whistling2:


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Cliff, I don't take advantage of people that work for me,, I don't use any illegals, I hire guys that need work, I pay em in cash, I make sure the scaffolds and walk boards are safe, If I won't get on em, I don't ask them too. They are making money and I am too. I haven't had a guy "quit" me in over 10 years except when they were going onto a better job. Whats wrong with that???


 Nothing, as long as you are prepared to support them for the rest of their lives if the should get hurt
I am a big fan of the New Hampshire slogan "Live Free or Die" and I will be the first to admit that there are problems with our current system, but it is very selfish of someone to only reap the benefits of living and working in this country without putting putting back in. It is much like being an illegal alien. It is a two way street Capt. Many times I believe I am the one being screwed for playing by the rules. The people like yourself who operate outside of the system many times do seem to be coming out ahead. It is frustrating seeing my tax dollars wasted and go for things I may not believe in. There seems to be 2 separate societies in this country and your posts have been very interesting. Thank you for your candor and honesty. I will say that after a lifetime in this business I have met many like yourself and I don't know one of them that succeeded in the long run. Unfortunately, most ended up alone and broke. They either end up working until the day they die because they have no retirement savings or social security, or they get sick and the medical bills clean out what they believed was a lot of $ in no time. They end up in hospitals and nursing homes that are funded by taxpayer $, the same system they avoided and despised all their lives. I am not expecting you to change your opinions or approach, I have enjoyed our exchange. I'll still let you buy me a couple of beers sometime. Your approach to business and even being a citizen of this country just seems very selfish to me. Gotta get to the job-I've got taxes to pay......Cliff


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

Wolfgang said:


> I've read this thread through a couple of times and just shake my head like Paul.:no:
> 
> But then after watching a Monty Python movie late last nite, I just imagined it as one of their comedy routines, complete with voices and laughed my butt off.:whistling2:


Dude I stumbled across that too! still funny as he77!!


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

As an old Vietnam Vet, I was around during the anti-war demonstrations and conscientious objectors era. I always thought, and still do, that people have rights to their beliefs....as long as it complies with law. I'm not going to say anyone is wrong, even though I do have some problems with what I perceive to be the morality involved.

Capt., if you're comfortable in your own skin how you handle your taxes and contributions to society, then so be it. I also have a problem at times with how I perceive the govt, but having either lived or "visited" other countries, I'd have to say we probably have the best thing going. Far from perfect, but as a person who enjoys his citizenship status, I also understand the concept of "giving" to insure the qualities of life that are afforded to me.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Damn TJ:notworthy:
Will you be my pen pal?


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## y.painting (Jul 19, 2009)

CliffK said:


> Nothing, as long as you are prepared to support them for the rest of their lives if the should get hurt
> I am a big fan of the New Hampshire slogan "Live Free or Die" and I will be the first to admit that there are problems with our current system, but it is very selfish of someone to only reap the benefits of living and working in this country without putting putting back in. It is much like being an illegal alien. It is a two way street Capt. Many times I believe I am the one being screwed for playing by the rules. The people like yourself who operate outside of the system many times do seem to be coming out ahead. It is frustrating seeing my tax dollars wasted and go for things I may not believe in. There seems to be 2 separate societies in this country and your posts have been very interesting. Thank you for your candor and honesty. I will say that after a lifetime in this business I have met many like yourself and I don't know one of them that succeeded in the long run. Unfortunately, most ended up alone and broke. They either end up working until the day they die because they have no retirement savings or social security, or they get sick and the medical bills clean out what they believed was a lot of $ in no time. They end up in hospitals and nursing homes that are funded by taxpayer $, the same system they avoided and despised all their lives. I am not expecting you to change your opinions or approach, I have enjoyed our exchange. I'll still let you buy me a couple of beers sometime. Your approach to business and even being a citizen of this country just seems very selfish to me. Gotta get to the job-I've got taxes to pay......Cliff


:notworthy::notworthy::notworthy:


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

CliffK said:


> Nothing, as long as you are prepared to support them for the rest of their lives if the should get hurt
> I am a big fan of the New Hampshire slogan "Live Free or Die" and I will be the first to admit that there are problems with our current system, but it is very selfish of someone to only reap the benefits of living and working in this country without putting putting back in. It is much like being an illegal alien. It is a two way street Capt. Many times I believe I am the one being screwed for playing by the rules. The people like yourself who operate outside of the system many times do seem to be coming out ahead. It is frustrating seeing my tax dollars wasted and go for things I may not believe in. There seems to be 2 separate societies in this country and your posts have been very interesting. Thank you for your candor and honesty. I will say that after a lifetime in this business I have met many like yourself and I don't know one of them that succeeded in the long run. Unfortunately, most ended up alone and broke. They either end up working until the day they die because they have no retirement savings or social security, or they get sick and the medical bills clean out what they believed was a lot of $ in no time. They end up in hospitals and nursing homes that are funded by taxpayer $, the same system they avoided and despised all their lives. I am not expecting you to change your opinions or approach, I have enjoyed our exchange. I'll still let you buy me a couple of beers sometime. Your approach to business and even being a citizen of this country just seems very selfish to me. Gotta get to the job-I've got taxes to pay......Cliff


 I think 3 years in nam could be considerd putting back in.

I have been in the hispital twice (and not the VA) payed cash, thank ya now. Never had an employee need the hospital yet, sorry to dissapoint you. 

I think you "don't like me" or my type simply cause I look at this country through the constituion, not the manifesto.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

Wolfgang said:


> As an old Vietnam Vet, I was around during the anti-war demonstrations and conscientious objectors era. I always thought, and still do, that people have rights to their beliefs....as long as it complies with law. I'm not going to say anyone is wrong, even though I do have some problems with what I perceive to be the morality involved.
> 
> Capt., if you're comfortable in your own skin how you handle your taxes and contributions to society, then so be it. I also have a problem at times with how I perceive the govt, but having either lived or "visited" other countries, I'd have to say we probably have the best thing going. Far from perfect, but as a person who enjoys his citizenship status, I also understand the concept of "giving" to insure the qualities of life that are afforded to me.


 Wolf, I do give back,, ALOT,, just not to the govment. Now of course the guys that charge more than I do wouldn't believe that. I don't need a brand new dually with signs all over it.


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I think 3 years in nam could be considerd putting back in.
> 
> I have been in the hispital twice (and not the VA) payed cash, thank ya now. Never had an employee need the hospital yet, sorry to dissapoint you.
> 
> I think you "don't like me" or my type simply cause I look at this country through the constituion, not the manifesto.


 I have a great respect for the men and women who have served this country. I also believe many of them pay taxes. I never said "I didn't like you". I just questioned your philosophy. It's funny-outside of that, I think you and I would get along pretty well.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Just to set the record straight, this, (post 75) in no way should be considered a personal attack against the Capt. I know of many who came back from some interesting tours who share the same feelings about the govt. that Cap does. 

There seems to be a mistrust of the govt with many of us, some just handle it different. No one who owns a business enjoys having the govt come in and tell us what we can and can't do....mainly because of the trickle-down costs that end up on our shoulders.

If the Capt. has found some legal loophole in the tax codes that works for him, more power to him. Big business does it all the time. Sometimes it works, sometimes there's a big price to pay.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

My only request is that he not be allowed to participate in the soon to be launched Quote Watch program, as he may skew the numbers. 

:jester:


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

his 'numbers' still represent what the reality is out there, whether we like it or not.


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

plainpainter said:


> his 'numbers' still represent what the reality is out there, whether we like it or not.


 Absolutely agree. I also think the reason why the Capt. hits a nerve is that he makes some very good arguments and if he's right(I do NOT believe he his right) then the guys out there(like me) playing by the "rules" are morons, and that's hard to swallow. The part that always gets me is that I am out there everyday fighting for prices(getting the reputation as the "expensive" painter), trying to differentiate and sell at 30$-50% more than most of my competition and the $ that I am fighting for is not my own or even my employees, it goes to the the government. That is the single most difficult thing I do, if you remove that obstacle and I can work for 35% less on average and still make the same $, it removes 90% of the stress that being in this business causes. The Capt. is doing it the easy way. I can honestly say that 99% of jobs that I do not get are for price and price only. I still have done very well, but remove the personal tax and payroll tax burden and I could grow this business 3 fold in a year, reduce the frustration and stress, make more $ and put more guys to work.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

Ya know guys, not even counting income tax, dern near 1/2 of our dollars go to taxes. Its our fault tho,,, rather than demand that the govment restrain itself, we think about getting them to destroy our competetion. Rather than letting the "buyer beware" we want the govment to make everything safe. After someone you don't know tries to kill you and you realize that there is no place safe to sleep (no I'm not talking bout Obama), you see things in a differant way. I know I'm warped and perverted, but I'm still dern near free.

Its easy to see the guy that charges less than you do as a hack,, but are you compareing apples to apples??? I run a "mom & pop shop. My equiptment, house and vehicles are paid for. Sure I can bid it for less, I have less overhead and operating costs, that does not mean that I delever less quality.

Another area that causes these threads, is that I understand alot of guys want to "make it big", nothing wrong with that, but like Wylon said, "Your going somewhere, but I've been to somewhere and found it was nowhere at all", in other words (so NEPS can understand ) I don't care to get big or expand, I'm happy right where I am, 1/2 notch under the radar.

Peace guys

Craig


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Capt' said:


> Ya know guys, not even counting income tax, dern near 1/2 of our dollars go to taxes.


Yep, then we spend the other half buying products made in China, all the while crying about how bad it is 'out there'


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

i agree with drywall guy............ i have pratically zero overhead..trucks paid off as is the house and i have all the tools ill ever need so my prices are low but my quality isnt. i get pissed when guys who pay out a lot start bitching about being low balled .......... KNOWBODY FORCED YOU TO GROW YOUR BUSINESS SO DEAL WITH IT NOW, NOT MY PROBLEM


big money big problems......sometimes being the little guy is where the moneys at


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Totally where the money is at.


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

I always herd it cost the small shop a lot more to operate, maybe we should think about it:whistling2:


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

Ole34 said:


> i agree with drywall guy............ i have pratically zero overhead..trucks paid off as is the house and i have all the tools ill ever need so my prices are low but my quality isnt. i get pissed when guys who pay out a lot start bitching about being low balled .......... KNOWBODY FORCED YOU TO GROW YOUR BUSINESS SO DEAL WITH IT NOW, NOT MY PROBLEM
> 
> 
> big money big problems......sometimes being the little guy is where the moneys at


 Are you including personal income tax and payroll taxes as overhead? This isn't a debate over big vs. small or quality vs. inferior workmanship. I have always run a small custom shop with relatively low overhead. If I have an employee(s) and I am paying payroll taxes on that person(s) along with some bare minimum benefits that person is costing me near twice as an employee that is illegal or off the books. Everything I own is paid off. I have a year plus cushion in my business accounts. Does that mean I should work for less money?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Dave Mac said:


> I always herd it cost the small shop a lot more to operate, maybe we should think about it:whistling2:


No way, man. If I can go out and sell 2000 hours of just my own time at even just $60/hr, I could gross $120k. Thats more than most of you guys make. Pretty good sounding income, huh?


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> No way, man. If I can go out and sell 2000 hours of just my own time at even just $60/hr, I could gross $120k. Thats more than most of you guys make. Pretty good sounding income, huh?


yea I much rather spread the cost of doing buisness over my own back, then spread it out over a bunch of employees, thats how they do it:blink:


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Dave Mac said:


> yea I much rather spread the cost of doing buisness over my own back, then spread it out over a bunch of employees, thats how they do it:blink:


Well thats what makes you cost so much Dave. 

Goin around blastin out rooms in 6 hrs. Easy street, Dave.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

CliffK said:


> Are you including personal income tax and payroll taxes as overhead? This isn't a debate over big vs. small or quality vs. inferior workmanship. I have always run a small custom shop with relatively low overhead. If I have an employee(s) and I am paying payroll taxes on that person(s) along with some bare minimum benefits that person is costing me near twice as an employee that is illegal or off the books. Everything I own is paid off. I have a year plus cushion in my business accounts. Does that mean I should work for less money?


 Cliff, what's a fair tax rate for you,,, 50%,,,70%???

How high does it need to go before you say,,, WTF

You ARE the greedy rich ya know,,,, (small bussiness man):thumbsup:


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

I don't care if you guys do not like Capt. because I do.
Anyone dedicated to the creative quality of their avatars as he is, is ok in my book!

Love the new one, and the last one was awesome too.

rock on Capt.!!


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

WisePainter said:


> I don't care if you guys do not like Capt. because I do.
> Anyone dedicated to the creative quality of their avatars as he is, is ok in my book!
> 
> Love the new one, and the last one was awesome too.
> ...


 
why make **** up, I see nowhear it says guys dont like him(not including neps), Ill go on record and say I like the guy, you on the other hand :whistling2:


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Cliff, what's a fair tax rate for you,,, 50%,,,70%???
> 
> How high does it need to go before you say,,, WTF
> 
> You ARE the greedy rich ya know,,,, (small bussiness man):thumbsup:


 This is the most fun I've had since I sprayed an attic with BIN on a fire job last month!!! You're the best Capt............The tee shirt is priceless!


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

Dave Mac said:


> why make **** up, I see nowhear it says guys dont like him(not including neps), Ill go on record and say I like the guy, you on the other hand :whistling2:


awwwww davy, is it my avatar?


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Ole34 said:


> i agree with drywall guy............ i have pratically zero overhead..trucks paid off as is the house and i have all the tools ill ever need so my prices are low but my quality isnt. i get pissed when guys who pay out a lot start bitching about being low balled .......... KNOWBODY FORCED YOU TO GROW YOUR BUSINESS SO DEAL WITH IT NOW, NOT MY PROBLEM
> 
> 
> big money big problems......sometimes being the little guy is where the moneys at


What is your daily rate?


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

NEPS.US said:


> What is your daily rate?


its different for every job but usually i walk away with 3-500 per day sometimes more but never less then $300 and thats cheap up here...most big guys charge $80 per hour per guy. do the math on that......ive done jobs for $15,000 and the other painter would bid close to $25,000...........

i did this job for $2,100+ paint ......... cement siding 2 coats, garage doors 1 coat and front door/frame 3 coats ....took me and another guy 2 days to do off of ladders all by brush .....i made good money on this job because i fly with a brush


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

Ole34 said:


> its different for every job but usually i walk away with 3-500 per day sometimes more but never less then $300 and thats cheap up here...most big guys charge $80 per hour per guy. do the math on that......ive done jobs for $15,000 and the other painter would bid close to $25,000...........
> 
> i did this job for $2,100+ paint ......... cement siding 2 coats, garage doors 1 coat and front door/frame 3 coats ....took me and another guy 2 days to do off of ladders all by brush .....i made good money on this job because i fly with a brush


 Nice job man, looks great, but since you did it for less that Neps, your a hack,,, sorry dude


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> .
> 
> Its easy to see the guy that charges less than you do as a hack,, but are you compareing apples to apples??? I run a "mom & pop shop. My equiptment, house and vehicles are paid for. Sure I can bid it for less, I have less overhead and operating costs, that does not mean that I delever less quality.
> 
> ...


Thanks for making it so simple for me to understand Craig. 

In what post did you assume that if a business is running legally and growing it is because they are financed to the max? 

Lets make a few things clear:

Your operating costs are lower because you are cutting corners and cheating the system and really have nothing at all to do with your "overhead". You have no "overhead", that is something business have. Your just a guy working for a rate that thinks he is a rebel because he is flying under the radar. What your doing is nothing new and is being done all over the country. Guys like you are not my competition. I am not pissed that I lose jobs to guys like you because I dont lose jobs to guys like you. Our clients are not the same because we are not the same. The fact remains that your practices are illegal.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Ole34 said:


> its different for every job but usually i walk away with 3-500 per day sometimes more but never less then $300 and thats cheap up here...most big guys charge $80 per hour per guy. do the math on that......ive done jobs for $15,000 and the other painter would bid close to $25,000...........
> 
> i did this job for $2,100+ paint ......... cement siding 2 coats, garage doors 1 coat and front door/frame 3 coats ....took me and another guy 2 days to do off of ladders all by brush .....i made good money on this job because i fly with a brush


And guys like you and Capt help me to differentiate my company against low ballers to HO's. Thank you.:thumbsup:


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Nice job man, looks great, but since you did it for less that Neps, your a hack,,, sorry dude


 
i know and i feel so BAD .............NOT!!! lol...neps can call me a hack all he wants but fact is ill smoke his top crew and charge less and put up a better product.........people these days are tired of paying inflated prices just so guys can have 10 trucks and 10 crews. a residential painting company shouldnt be that large in the first place. its getting to the point were its costing close to $1,000 to paint a damn bedroom with these big outfits in my area and they bitch and moan when a small guy like me comes along and does it for $600..............call me Hack from now on :yes:


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

NEPS.US said:


> And guys like you and Capt help me to differentiate my company against low ballers to HO's. Thank you.:thumbsup:


 
guys like me ??? wtf are you talking about dude ???? .... i delivered an AMAZING product under cost. i should be talking to your customers and letting them know how much theyre getting ripped off..............


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

NEPS what planet are you from ???? cheaper and better quality = bad job???? .... the village called and they want their idiot back


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

Ole your prices would be very high in my area,


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Lock about to come?


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

Ole34 said:


> guys like me ??? wtf are you talking about dude ???? .... i delivered an AMAZING product under cost. i should be talking to your customers and letting them know how much theyre getting ripped off..............


You really should spend some time reading more of the posts here. Neps does not need to call you hack, your posts have spoken for themselves.


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Lock about to come?


Paul I thought you wernt playing in this thread ha ha


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

RCP said:


> You really should spend some time reading more of the posts here. Neps does not need to call you hack, your posts have spoken for themselves.




You go girl


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

Ole34 said:


> NEPS what planet are you from ???? cheaper and better quality = bad job???? .... the village called and they want their idiot back


Go ahead Neps.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

:ban:


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

dang this is harder to keep up with then a chatroom, dont lock it untill we here back from neps lol


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Dave Mac said:


> dang this is harder to keep up with then a chatroom, dont lock it untill we here back from neps lol


I hope he uses the word "clown"


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

Sure seems painters are not really into the state of the union address. This place is on fire tonight. 

Well I take it back, our good bud Gabe, I'm sure is in front of the tv taking notes and stuff


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

HACK this NEPS ..... i lowballed a bunch of inflated painting crews and made a deal with the condo association ......every condo who sighned up got their stucco painted, front and back for $1,500-$2,500 ( some large ones in there) and guess what ? i got like 25 condos ...i bust my ass and work hard for my money..... 2-3 days each condo..... and made even more money when some people wanted the trim done..........hack hack hack is what i am :yes:


those people loved me in there ................ call me HACK


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

PatsPainting said:


> Sure seems painters are not really into the state of the union address. This place is on fire tonight.
> 
> Well I take it back, our good bud Gabe, I'm sure is in front of the tv taking notes and stuff


More than likely


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Dave Mac said:


> dang this is harder to keep up with then a chatroom, dont lock it untill we here back from neps lol


I think its all up to NEPS at this point........

Final thoughts Chris?


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Ole34 said:


> NEPS what planet are you from ???? cheaper and better quality = bad job???? .... the village called and they want their idiot back


 
I come from the planet NEPS, where we have insurance, pay taxes, offer employees a substanial career for a good wage, make profits and grow. 

I am the head idiot.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

And I dont have to bust my ass for a lousy $300 a day. :whistling2:


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

I can remember a time when things were alot more fun around here.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> I can remember a time when things were alot more fun around here.


Sorry Scott. I am way to tired to battle with fools tonight.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> Sorry Scott. I am way to tired to battle with fools tonight.


Thats not what I meant. It wasnt a reflection on you at all.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> Sorry Scott. I am way to tired to battle with fools tonight.


Why are you tired? Have you been like working and stuff, err?


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

NEPS what's wrong with you , He doesn't even know what insurance and taxes are. He's got ZERO overhead.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> I can remember a time when things were alot more fun around here.


LOL, I was thinking the same thing! Can't decide if I admire Chris' restraint or am disappointed!

Now where did I put my Magic Wand..........


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

you don't see any tape on my job site cause im a hack lol ............ all brush skills.........I obsess over neatness and can cut in detail you would need a magnifying glass to see
...........2.5'' flat, 



im not even happy with myself but its still leagues ahead of what most guys can do


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

Those are some sweet lines grass hopper


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

NEPS.US said:


> And I dont have to bust my ass for a lousy $300 a day. :whistling2:


 
dont quote my minumum then pat yourself on the back


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

Where is JP when we need him?


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

best dang painter out their.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

aaron61 said:


> Those are some sweet lines grass hopper


 
you have to thin the primer to work on bare wood that tight.......dont even ask why i obsessed so much for something the HO'er was never going to see in the first place unless she hangs out ''UNDER'' the deck lol


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Dude, its the bottom of a stairwell:blink:
Get that down and maybe your dad will let you paint closets.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

That may be the best bottom of a deck staircase I have ever seen. :thumbsup: From the quality I think you should stick to that market!


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

That just shows your attention to detail.Most here would never understand.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Ole34 said:


> you don't see any tape on my job site cause im a hack lol ............ all brush skills.........I obsess over neatness and can cut in detail you would need a magnifying glass to see
> ...........2.5'' flat,
> 
> 
> ...


this is underneath some ext steps? ok.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

heres more of my HACK work .........lines sharper then a level, you'd think it came from the factory like that after i was done


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

make him stop


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

Ole34
You should realize that you are talking to a bunch of professional painters here, these are guys that have proven themselves over time. Your attitude is annoying and disruptive to the forum. If you wish to continue posting, you need to change your tone. And please resize your photos before you post them.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

i cut that trim on top of bead board and still put up an laser str8 line...... now you know thats tough........and i even caulked it to perfection and no caulk in the bead grooves either


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

TJ Paint said:


> this is underneath some ext steps? ok.


Sure, but you should see him do trash enclosures:whistling2:


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

RCP said:


> Ole34
> You should realize that you are talking to a bunch of professional painters here, these are guys that have proven themselves over time. Your attitude is annoying and disruptive to the forum. If you wish to continue posting, you need to change your tone. And please resize your photos before you post them.


 
ok deal ! ..................


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## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

Ole34, your are a complete moron and are to dumb to even realize it. Your BS is as transparent as glass and it is just boring. You have absolutely no idea of how to run a legit business. Since you came hear you have been starting and posting threads all day long so one has to wonder.... If your so damn great and busy with all these "big" jobs then what the hell are you doing at home sitting on your lazy posting on this forum? Loser!


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Best thread of '11?





...........so far?


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

No. Get some rest. Its pretty obvious you're tired


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Ole34,

Your posts read like a resume. Are you looking for a job, or something?


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Bender said:


> No. Get some rest. Its pretty obvious you're tired


:yes: I got no zip on my fastball tonight.


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> :yes: I got no zip on my fastball tonight.


 You mean no donkey in that ass j/k we still like you


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Sigh. 

Ole34 Like RCP said you are in a forum of professionals. Regroup and try and learn to navigate the waters. The god's gift to painting crap gets old fast. All the others that share this attitude do not last long around here and it is not because we were intimidated by them and got rid of them it is because the schtick just does not hold water around this place. We are a group of painters, settle in and have exchanges with other like minded people. You don't need to seem so desperate for attention. Slow your roll as they say.


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## woodtradesman (Sep 22, 2008)

NEPS.US said:


> I come from the planet NEPS, where we have insurance, pay taxes, offer employees a substanial career for a good wage, make profits and grow.


Nice comeback. :thumbsup:


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> Where is JP when we need him?


TADA! 

Ok listen up people of the world... Jack is speaking..

You do not need to reduce primer to cut tight lines on bare wood to white trim. They make paint brushes for that.

Thank you for your time.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Guys please remember to keep personal attacks down.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

This Jack guy is pretty funny.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> TADA!
> 
> Ok listen up people of the world... Jack is speaking..
> 
> ...


Dude, that was all like a public service announcement and stuff. Are you feeling ok? Between you and neps I think the steady drips around here are wearing down the painttalk rocks. 

Can someone photoshop a Mt Rushmore image and get some pt faces superimposed? (maybe a dash of sev's mug?)


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Its like the friggin twilight zone around here. Dave Mac, yes, *the* Dave Mac, is trying to pawn off old copies of Brians book for enough cashe to put gas in his dirtbike...wt?


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> Dude, that was all like a public service announcement and stuff. Are you feeling ok? Between you and neps I think the steady drips around here are wearing down the painttalk rocks.
> 
> Can someone photoshop a Mt Rushmore image and get some pt faces superimposed? (maybe a dash of sev's mug?)


Something in my Mt Dew and its not ice. I might change my avatar to a cape with JP across the front.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> Something in my Mt Dew and its not ice. I might change my avatar to a cape with JP across the front.



Isn't it funny how we become what we fear the most?


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


> Something in my Mt Dew and its not ice. I might change my avatar to a cape with JP across the front.


JP's letting his hair down, I like that!!!!!! :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

do we need a "who's the best painter in the world" poll?


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

I cant do polls anymore,,,


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

NEPS.US said:


> I cant do polls anymore,,,


to do polls you need one of these 










any hack knows that


:whistling2:


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

I'll say it again - this is the best thread ever!!!! This Ole dude is my new favorite - by the 3rd post in, I laughed so hard I let go some gas! LOL


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

plainpainter said:


> I'll say it again - this is the best thread ever!!!! This Ole dude is my new favorite - by the 3rd post in, I laughed so hard I let go some gas! LOL


Now that was funny.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

plainpainter said:


> I'll say it again - this is the best thread ever!!!! This Ole dude is my new favorite - by the 3rd post in, I laughed so hard I let go some gas! LOL



I just hope you don't got that intestinal bug that's going around. If I did that .............

well, it wouldn't be something I'd report on the internet, IYKWIM


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

daArch said:


> I just hope you don't got that intestinal bug that's going around. If I did that .............
> 
> well, it wouldn't be something I'd report on the internet, IYKWIM


Like you have any boundaries. :laughing:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

few.


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## mikethebrush (Nov 12, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Work, I sell a service,,,, If you want it cheap, I can deliver, If you want it right, I can do that too,,,,,,,,
> 
> But you can't have em both,,,, I want ALL the jobs, and I'm WAY past thinking too highly of myself


 by your own admission , your cutting corners as well as your rates

I thought this forum was for pro decorators


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> I can remember a time when things were alot more fun around here.


"In the Garden of Allah" Don Henley......great tune.


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## Custom Brush Co. (Jan 26, 2011)

Low Ballers are people who don't have a clue about anything pertaining to business and finances. They are desperately seeking opportunities anywhere they can and think the only way to get a job is to be cheap. And of course they know nothing of how to paint even if they did "paint their aunts house once" they can't last in business for that long unless they live in Eugene, OR. I've seen low ballers survive for years here. turning the trade around here is like trying to twist the head off of someone sometimes.

We soon realized though, if someone is even attracted to these individuals, they are not even close to being our client base. Now they don't affect our minds. We just laugh at them struggling all the time, never with any money or tools to paint right.


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## bigjeffie61520 (Oct 3, 2009)

I like your avatar custom brush company


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

Custom Brush Co. said:


> Low Ballers are people who don't have a clue about anything pertaining to business and finances. They are desperately seeking opportunities anywhere they can and think the only way to get a job is to be cheap. And of course they know nothing of how to paint even if they did "paint their aunts house once" they can't last in business for that long unless they live in Eugene, OR. I've seen low ballers survive for years here. turning the trade around here is like trying to twist the head off of someone sometimes.
> 
> We soon realized though, if someone is even attracted to these individuals, they are not even close to being our client base. Now they don't affect our minds. We just laugh at them struggling all the time, never with any money or tools to paint right.


 Not being impressed by guys that think they have all the answers,,, I made 1100.00 this week(thats a 5 day week ) with 72.00 in exspenses (gas). I know the real pros never get out of bed for less than a grand an hour tho. Perhaps I am a hack.

Perhaps I should say that it was nc at 1.30/ft


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

Custom Brush Co. said:


> Low Ballers are people who don't have a clue about anything pertaining to business and finances. They are desperately seeking opportunities anywhere they can and think the only way to get a job is to be cheap.


:hang:


my lowballing prices have nothing to do with inferior quality its just that im faster and more efficient then most crews so therefor my prices will be lower because I spend less time on the job ..... what don't you understand? its basic mathematics..........and if you ''highballers'' had any clue about ''finances and business'' you would realize how inefficient you really are and instead of spending money on marketing and increasing your rates cause it takes you so damn long to do anything just tighten up your existing crew and the production will go up while bringing your rates down therefor generating more work for yourself cause your prices are now lower than your competition all the while you'll be bringing in more cash ...........SIMPLE abc **** !!! ...........DUMB DUMB DUMB DUMB. you can hide behind that crap of lowballers putting out a bad product all you want but the truth of the matter is that you guys have no clue on how to run a crew ......none what so ever.............I see you guys all the time getting out of your vans an standing around waiting for instructions....... by the time I put my truck in park my guy is already out of the passenger side and in the back grabbing drops like clock work and I only have one answer for ''what should I do now boss?'' ........ GO JUMP OF A BRIDGE!!!! I have no time for people like that who still after years in the trade need to ask what to do next. in order for me to keep my prices low I have to meet daily deadlines.......no time for mistakes or bums or stupid questions..........let me catch a 40 yr MAN starring at a ceiling wondering the best way to roll it......."roll it the same way you rolled the last one stupid'' nothing new here its a CEILING, every house you've ever been in had one!!


*Google, Henry Ford and the Model T if your still confused*



2 PLUMBERS walk in and 1 gets right to work and is out within 30 mins and charges $100................. other plumber walks in with a coffee and looks around, calls boss for instructions, plays with phone for a few minutes, calls boss again then finally starts working but has to call boss again cause hes confused.......... finally done 2 hours later and charges $200 ......................


YEAH SCREW LOWBALLERS  

MORE EFFICIENT= LOWER OPPERATING COST
LOWER OPPERATING COST= LOWER PRICES
LOWER PRICES= LOWBALLER 
LOWBALLER= MORE WORK
MORE WORK= MORE MONEY

DUMB DUMB DUMB


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Just my observation ole34, but it sounds to me like you have an axe to grind. I don't see the "highballers" that you speek of around here. Maybe its just different where you are....


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Just my observation ole34, but it sounds to me like you have an axe to grind. I don't see the "highballers" that you speek of around here. Maybe its just different where you are....


That is a much nicer way of putting what I was thinking!:thumbsup:


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Just my observation ole34, but it sounds to me like you have an axe to grind. I don't see the "highballers" that you speek of around here. Maybe its just different where you are....


 I know I'll probbly get banned for this Schimdt,,, but did you miss NEPS early posts?????? He thinks ANYONE that charges less than he does is a hack,,,,,

Really, I think if he would STFU, all the lowballer junk would just go away.:thumbsup:


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## vandy (Apr 22, 2010)

ole34,
do you carry general liability an work comp insurances?


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

If you paid employees above the table, had all the proper insurance, workmans comp, reported all income, etc, then you guys would have a leg to stand on. 

Do not worry. You will not get banned for disagreeing with NEPS. Disagreeing with me, maybe:jester:. With NEPS, no.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I know I'll probbly get banned for this Schimdt,,, but did you miss NEPS early posts?????? He thinks ANYONE that charges less than he does is a hack,,,,,
> 
> Really, I think if he would STFU, all the lowballer junk would just go away.:thumbsup:


Lowballer, highballer, _whatever! _I'm all for a good, open debate without all the BS and attitudes. I can "appreciate" the way _you_ and NEPS do business. I just happen to agree with NEPS's business model. You see, I believe this forum has enough room for all of us, and I hope that you, or someone else may read this and "see the light"...... :yes:


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Lowballer, highballer, _whatever! _I'm all for a good, open debate without all the BS and attitudes. I can "appreciate" the way _you_ and NEPS do business. I just happen to agree with NEPS's business model. You see, I believe this forum has enough room for all of us, and I hope that you, or someone else may read this and "see the light"...... :yes:


 I agree, its a big world and we all have our niche.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Lowballer, highballer, _whatever! _I'm all for a good, open debate without all the BS and attitudes. I can "appreciate" the way _you_ and NEPS do business. I just happen to agree with NEPS's business model. You see, I believe this forum has enough room for all of us, and I hope that you, or someone else may read this and "see the light"...... :yes:


Well said Paul. :thumbup:


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Once again here is another example of a member reading what they want out of each post, that is if they are even reading the entire post. 

I could care less how much you charge. What I do make judgement on is how you come up with that price. If you are beating your competition solely by cutting corners, not paying taxes and not paying for insurance then IMO you are cheating. I think you know that you could not compete on a equal level so in order to obtain work you must cut corners in order to have lower prices.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

NEPS.US said:


> Once again here is another example of a member reading what they want out of each post, that is if they are even reading the entire post.
> 
> I could care less how much you charge. What I do make judgement on is how you come up with that price. If you are beating your competition solely by cutting corners, not paying taxes and not paying for insurance then IMO you are cheating. I think you know that you could not compete on a equal level so in order to obtain work you must cut corners in order to have lower prices.


 Once again, here you are making assunptions that anyone that charges less is,,, lets see,,,,,

1) beating your competetion
2)not paying taxes (your right on this one)
3)not paying ins
4) cheating


Funny it never occurs to you, that maybe I'm like 5 times faster than you are???? Perhaps I have been doing this long enough that I can do it faster AND better????


Oh perish the thought that someone may be a better painter than you,,,,,,


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I know I'll probbly get banned for this Schimdt,,, but did you miss NEPS early posts?????? He thinks ANYONE that charges less than he does is a hack,,,,,
> 
> Really, I think if he would STFU, all the lowballer junk would just go away.:thumbsup:


 
Could you please find this post I made?

I would STFU but once again you popped into this thread and shot your mouth off so now I will continue down the road of telling you what a under cutting hack you are for cheating your competition.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Once again, here you are making assunptions that anyone that charges less is,,, lets see,,,,,
> 
> 1) beating your competetion
> 2)not paying taxes (your right on this one)
> ...


Wrong again Capt. 

Can you read? I never said that if anyone is charging less than me they are cheating. I said YOU are cheating and are a self confessed low baller. You are a lowballer because you cheat. What dont you understand?


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Funny it never occurs to you, that maybe I'm like 5 times faster than you are???? Perhaps I have been doing this long enough that I can do it faster AND better????
> 
> 
> Oh perish the thought that someone may be a better painter than you,,,,,,


I really don't think that is the root of it Craig.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

Workaholic said:


> I really don't think that is the root of it Craig.


 I suppose you are right, and again, no use debateing with something that thinks your an ass to begin with


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## vandy (Apr 22, 2010)

Capt, I agree with everything you said but also agree with everything that NEPS said.
If you are set up legitimately and deliver a comparable product faster and thus cheaper, good for you.

I have no problem with getting outplayed as long as we are playing by the same rules.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

This thread is like the twilight zone. 

Just lock this thing before someone needs therapy.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

vandy said:


> Capt, I agree with everything you said but also agree with everything that NEPS said.
> If you are set up legitimately and deliver a comparable product faster and thus cheaper, good for you.
> 
> I have no problem with getting outplayed as long as we are playing by the same rules.


 
That's all I'm saying Vandy but I think the Capt is missing the message. Must be the bottle.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

vandy said:


> I have no problem with getting outplayed as long as we are playing by the same rules.


I do, it sucks to loose.

Pat


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

vandy said:


> Capt, I agree with everything you said but also agree with everything that NEPS said.
> If you are set up legitimately and deliver a comparable product faster and thus cheaper, good for you.
> 
> I have no problem with getting outplayed as long as we are playing by the same rules.


 In the words of our "commander-in-Chief" in the state of the union speech,,

We have to stop these loop-holes,,, If your a small bussiness man and can read the tax code,,,, you can run your business and NEVER PAY TAXES,,,,

Strraight from the lips of the "appointed one"


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

I agree with vandy. If you guys lived on the same block I doubt you would effect each others business. Totally different.
I run my business like neps, above the board. I do it because I feel like a have a small debt to my country. I don't mind contributing.

But I agree with capt as well. Phuck those robber barons. They do nothing but steal my familys wealth.


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

if his lips are moving he is usually lying


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

vandy said:


> ole34,
> do you carry general liability an work comp insurances?


 i have liabilty but no workmans comp............. my crew consists of ME and my fiance and we both have private insurance .........the majority of my friends are contractors and over the years ive taught them all how to paint so on big jobs i bring them in


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Ole34 said:


> i have liabilty but no workmans comp............. my crew consists of ME and my fiance and we both have private insurance .........the majority of my friends are contractors and over the years ive taught them all how to paint so on big jobs i bring them in


You _do realize _that your private health insurance will not cover an injury at work?


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

Bender said:


> I agree with vandy. If you guys lived on the same block I doubt you would effect each others business. Totally different.
> I run my business like neps, above the board. I do it because I feel like a have a small debt to my country. I don't mind contributing.
> 
> But I agree with capt as well. Phuck those robber barons. They do nothing but steal my familys wealth.


 Bender, for years I felt the same way, even after nam, I tried to be proud,,,,

After years and years, I got to the point that enough was enough.

Nam is no excuse for being a jerk, neither is socialism.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

I think this thread has reached a level where it can only get to be redundant. I feel there were some fine points made in this thread and while I do not agree with everything at least it was able to be said. 

I hope you all were able to say your piece so it is not simply picked back up in other threads. Sometimes we have to agree to disagree or decide hell we debated that to many times.


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