# Best trim paint



## gabe (Apr 20, 2012)

I have a large new house to paint, lots of tall base, and fancy crown. This is a 15,000 Sq ft mansion . I have worked with the homeowner and have a good relationship with the interior decorator. She showed me pictures of her sisters place in NYC, the trim is white with a lo luster finish. We are doing samples, drywall is not finished yet. I was thinking sprayed finish with maybe a light back brush. They don't want it to look like plastic. I was thinking B M oil impervo, PL satin oil, or up charging to Fine paint of Europe. I think the waterbornes might not have the richness they are looking for. Any feed back would be helpful. Thanks


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## Builtmany (Dec 5, 2009)

Muralo Ultra waterborne is my choice.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

I love Muralo Ultra. It is my favorite trim paint. I would use it over SI or most alkyds. FPE would be cool too.


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## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

Ill thrid MURALO ultra


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

What did you use on your last mansion?

Sent from my MB508 using Paint Talk


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

TJ Paint said:


> What did you use on your last mansion?
> 
> Sent from my MB508 using Paint Talk


The bestest paint In the world duh...


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## SeaMonster (Apr 13, 2009)

BM MorGlow for us


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

SeaMonster said:


> BM MorGlow for us


That's exterior, right?


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Lovin' the sig.

Wear'n My Jeans


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I would think a home like that would be satin impervo oil enamel.


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## scottjr (Jan 14, 2012)

Satin impervo oil, no doubt.


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## gabe (Apr 20, 2012)

I have used satin imporvo, porter oil satin, p &l oil, grahams ceramic satin, and a few others. I think satin imporvo is my best bet. How does it compare to fine paint of Europe?


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

gabe said:


> I have used satin imporvo, porter oil satin, p &l oil, grahams ceramic satin, and a few others. I think satin imporvo is my best bet. How does it compare to fine paint of Europe?


About 50 dollars a gallon cheaper....


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

I will put my vote in for Satin Impervo oil when back brushing. Advanced when spray only.


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## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

TJ Paint said:


> Lovin' the sig.
> 
> Wear'n My Jeans


Wrangler from walmart baby, 19.99/pair. GET AT ME

BTW why bother with oil, when someting like advance gives you as clean a finish that wont yellow? Oils just more work for repaint down the road..considering its going to get kicked out in the future. JMO


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

BTW why bother with oil, when someting like advance gives you as clean a finish that wont yellow? Oils just more work for repaint down the road..considering its going to get kicked out in the future. JMO
__________________


This is very true. Advance. Or Muralo, really. All that sq ft, Advance takes a while to dry....


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

StripandCaulk said:


> Wrangler from walmart baby, 19.99/pair. GET AT ME
> 
> BTW why bother with oil, when someting like advance gives you as clean a finish that wont yellow? Oils just more work for repaint down the road..considering its going to get kicked out in the future. JMO


 Trim paint same price!


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## ligboozer (Oct 13, 2009)

StripandCaulk said:


> Wrangler from walmart baby, 19.99/pair. GET AT ME


 
:laughing:


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

I've only used advance once because it was comped to me. It was awesome stuff and dryed with a nice finsh. My only complaint would be that it had a tendency to run when applyed to vertical surfaces. That would be my pick I try to stay away from oil. Also SW pro classic has a nice finish and I don't think that has been mentioned yet.


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## Builtmany (Dec 5, 2009)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Also SW pro classic has a nice finish and I don't think that has been mentioned yet.



Pro Classic is not as user friendly as some of the others. There is a little bit of a learning curve to get the best results.


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## gabe (Apr 20, 2012)

I am doing a sample of Advance, and I also like PPG satin h20 oil. I have used the h2o oil from fine paints of Europe and also liked that. I have not used their oil, the red door video look great. Not sure if it is worth the more then double price. I can not get Muralo paint here.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

gabe said:


> I am doing a sample of Advance, and I also like PPG satin h20 oil. I have used the h2o oil from fine paints of Europe and also liked that. I have not used their oil, the red door video look great. Not sure if it is worth the more then double price.* I can not get Muralo paint here.*


Of course you can. Find a dealer online who will ship it to you. Since you are ordering for such a large project that should be free.


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## Builtmany (Dec 5, 2009)

gabe said:


> I can not get Muralo paint here.



That makes for a tough one, Muralo needs to step up their marketing & availability nationwide.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

It's not available anywhere in my area either.

In fact, I've never seen a can in any store I've been to.

Sent from my MB508 using Paint Talk


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## Builtmany (Dec 5, 2009)

TJ Paint said:


> It's not available anywhere in my area either.
> 
> In fact, I've never seen a can in any store I've been to.
> 
> Sent from my MB508 using Paint Talk


You guys don't know what you are missing


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## Tyler1449 (Aug 5, 2012)

I have several years experience in high end repaints. We mask off all of our trim and spray using hvlp spray systems. We have used every type of oil and water modified oil products available. Our best results come from using Kem aqua primer and top coating with pro classic oil. We recently used Benjamin Moore advance on a house because home owner was talked into it by a fancy Benjamin sales rep. I love most Benjamin products but the new advance product for trim is a horrible product. I will walk away from a job before I use this product again. It does not allow a proper mil coating when being sprayed and does not dry to a hard desirable finish.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Tyler1449 said:


> I have several years experience in high end repaints. We mask off all of our trim and spray using hvlp spray systems. We have used every type of oil and water modified oil products available. Our best results come from using Kem aqua primer and top coating with pro classic oil. We recently used Benjamin Moore advance on a house because home owner was talked into it by a fancy Benjamin sales rep. I love most Benjamin products but the new advance product for trim is a horrible product. I will walk away from a job before I use this product again. It does not allow a proper mil coating when being sprayed and does not dry to a hard desirable finish.


That's crazy talk


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## TNpainter (Dec 7, 2011)

overspray?


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## Brian339 (Mar 15, 2009)

I have been on a Muralo Ultra kick for about two years now. I just switched to Advance because my dealer/supplier is going 100% BM. I will have no problem going back to Muralo if I dont get along with the Advance but I doubt that will be an issue. I can tweak any premium paint to were I need it to be. I used SI for 25 years. Its no longer the paint it once was. I have to add almost 20% penatrol to get it to function right. Not to mention the health implications xown the road. The new acrylics are much safer. Someday thats going to matter to all of us. 
Bottom line is youll be solid with Muralo or Advance.


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## South-FL-Painter (Jan 17, 2012)

I never tryed spraying advance,is it really that good?how much is advance gallon run in usa?aprox?


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

Sharp_Painting said:


> I never tryed spraying advance,is it really that good?how much is advance gallon run in usa?aprox?


be very careful spraying 'advance' because it has a tendency to run. you are fine laying the doors flat but the vertical stuff can get tricky. advance also takes quite some time to cure so flipping the doors over and drying them on a wire rack may leave imprints

you might want to consider insl-x 'cabinet coat' for kitchen cabinets. i've also used it for trim. great stuff


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## South-FL-Painter (Jan 17, 2012)

tnx,

I still want to try,I have a trim,door,base job coming up next week,I am thinking to prime with fresh coat,and use advance to top coat it.Any suggestions as for psi and spray ff tip? size?

that oil hybrid thing sells for me.




Xmark said:


> be very careful spraying 'advance' because it has a tendency to run. you are fine laying the doors flat but the vertical stuff can get tricky. advance also takes quite some time to cure so flipping the doors over and drying them on a wire rack may leave imprints
> 
> you might want to consider insl-x 'cabinet coat'. great stuff


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

210 or 310 FF


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## South-FL-Painter (Jan 17, 2012)

have you tryed fresh coat on raw wood trim doors and stuff?I am still shopping for a primer



Xmark said:


> 210 or 310 FF


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

I think advance really shines when brushing spindles.it levels like a spray finish.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

We are using BM314 wb impervo on our current project, both sprayed and brushed. We've used it on a couple of projects in a row, but will probably give it a rest after this one, just because there are so many interesting options these days. It does work well though, and I am a big fan of this satin sheen. 

This photo is of some sprayed built in cabinetry. (Its not one of those 'taken wet' photos, total dry).


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

don't hold back scott,what is your fav acrylic paint to spray?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Xmark said:


> don't hold back scott,what is your fav acrylic paint to spray?


On trim/cabinets, lately, 314. Just because that is what we have been using so much of it. We just last week sprayed an enormous coffered ceiling with it and it can be pretty amazing, with straining and fluotrol. Cant emphasize batch straining enough in wb and acrylics. 

I also very much enjoy Cashmere medium lustre. Both of those are fun. 

We have been mixing it up alot more in spraying wood primers lately. Trying to find an all around favorite. Some good choices in that group it seems. 

On drywall, still like super spec 253 for primer. It just seems built for spray and backroll style. 

Ceiling paints, still experimenting. Some surprisingly good dead flats around these days too. 

I used to find one combo that worked and stick with it. Now we mix and match mfr's and product combos alot.


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

I've never brushed or sprayed wb impervo. obviously you like it better than aura. 
for me,aura seems to move a bit too much for my liking.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Xmark said:


> I've never brushed or sprayed wb impervo. obviously you like it better than aura.
> for me,aura seems to move a bit too much for my liking.


Have never been too big into Aura as a trim paint. I've sprayed it with good results, but it has been difficult to get my crews to accept it as a brushable enough trim paint over the years. I like a trim paint that is good both sprayed and brushed, as that is a important part of our interiors. We intermix. 

I like Aura on walls, but I like Natura better. It is also a pretty darn good trim paint.


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

vermontpainter said:


> Have never been too big into Aura as a trim paint. I've sprayed it with good results, but it has been difficult to get my crews to accept it as a brushable enough trim paint over the years. I like a trim paint that is good both sprayed and brushed, as that is a important part of our interiors. We intermix.
> 
> I like Aura on walls, but I like Natura better. It is also a pretty darn good trim paint.


interesting reading old threads about wb impervo. a lot of guys don't like it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAK-Deco 
We stopped using WB Impervo awhile ago its junk IMO.. I use Muralo mostly but have starting to use Aura Satin more and more on trim.
The WB impervo can work ok for an acrylic, but definately has drawbacks. When it's all said and done it has an enamel quality that is acceptable for a waterbase, but obviously lacks durability of more toxic paints.

I personally do not use it very often though because I find it very exacting to work with.

The material keeps moving for a LONG time after you are done with the surface.

When brushing it can sag in places that most other paints will not if brushed with the same technique.

Which I find is always possible to alleviate by being more exacting with the millage of paint distribution, but that comes at a slight cost of slowing down a bit.

When spraying it has the finest line between not enough, and running that I have ever experienced.

Cranking the heat is a must.

http://www.painttalk.com/showthread.php?t=7808&referrerid=13637


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## mpminter (Mar 21, 2011)

Tyler1449 said:


> ...and does not dry to a hard desirable finish.


If you look at Advance after a week, I think you'll find that it's rock hard. You do have to wait for this stuff to cure. That being said, my only experience with Advance was not that great. I found that it seems to drip really easily, and I spent all day chasing drips. I may give it another try just because of the unbelievable finish it produces.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Xmark said:


> interesting reading old threads about wb impervo. a lot of guys don't like it.
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by MAK-Deco
> ...


Thats what keeps it interesting. Everyone has their "go to's" and their own style. We have guys here who can get flawless finishes with much lesser revered paints. 

On 314, I have found that you have to use the right primer, and prime the right way under it. We used it a few years ago with Fresh Start 023 primer and it was not a good experience. With 046 it is much better. Bottom line is that 314 is thin, and doesn't have exceptional coverage ability, so the primer has to be pretty solid, and smooth, but have enough tooth for the 314 to hang onto. 

I have seen some of my own employees wrestle with figuring it out. Alot of painters are most effective if they are brushing heavy. Its actually harder for guys to do a thinner coat, especially on the second coat which is mostly for sheen.


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

Pitt kitchen & bath is a decent trim paint to spray. nice tough finish and it doesn't run. it also brushes out nicely with a bit of floetrol added.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

mpminter said:


> If you look at Advance after a week, I think you'll find that it's rock hard. You do have to wait for this stuff to cure. That being said, my only experience with Advance was not that great. I found that it seems to drip really easily, and I spent all day chasing drips. I may give it another try just because of the unbelievable finish it produces.


Thats the whole thing. If I am not using oil, I want things to be pretty fast drying because of dust contamination. We were able to do final coat on a very formal panelized foyer stairway with a chop saw set up in the entryway, and 314 dried fast enough to not be a magnet.


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## South-FL-Painter (Jan 17, 2012)

Do you spray primer with FF also?or regular tip for primer then aand and the FF finish coat?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Sharp_Painting said:


> Do you spray primer with FF also?or regular tip for primer then aand and the FF finish coat?


Fine finish. Fluotrol and strain your batch first.


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## South-FL-Painter (Jan 17, 2012)

I saw that there is a spec advance primer,any of you tried it with advance finish?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Sharp_Painting said:


> I saw that there is a spec advance primer,any of you tried it with advance finish?


Not yet. I have run Advance over other primers, but not that.


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## bigJ (Aug 12, 2012)

I'm currently looking for a favorite trim paint. I've got a few samples of Advance going right now. I know many of you guys say it gets really hard in about a week. One sample I painted was about 2 1/2 weeks ago. It is not near the durability of an oil alkyd at this point (still has that acrylic/tacky like feel), but is definitely harder than it was at day 4 or 5. I should note it's a Base 2. I do agree that the leveling of the paint is hands down the best I've seen among water borne house paints.

BTW, gennex colorants were used to tint.

Been reading this forum on and off for a couple years now, finally broke down and joined.


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## more_prep (Dec 7, 2009)

Anybody try out California Ultraplate? It's an acrylic urethane for cabinets/trim that is supposed to be very durable. I haven't used it, justed heard good things...

Now, often acrylic paints are said to cure hard and be durable when in fact they are nothing like alkyds. They often still have that rubbery feel and do not achieve alkyd-like hardness and block resistance. I know of a couple that do (SW Kem Aqua, and the wb alkyds, but only after the latter cure for months...)
Cabinet Coat levels great, but I just have not seen it attain what I consider good hardness. Coverage and open tme could also be better.

I'm always looking for a good sag-resistant trim paint in a wb formulation that levels like oil and hardens like an alkyd, that has good open time and sprays well. Not asking too much, am I?


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

I have not used Ultraplate yet, but California does not mess around. Their previous acrylic urethane product was great, but only available in high gloss. Ultraplate is satin.


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## bigJ (Aug 12, 2012)

more_prep said:


> I know of a couple that do (SW Kem Aqua, and the wb alkyds, but only after the latter cure for months...)


What?? We use kem aqua all the time for new cabinets and cabinet repaints. It is like the fastest curing wb paint I've ever used. You can stack the doors on top of each other like in a week, no sticking together. Worse thing about kem aqua is sagging on verticals. 

If you're only talking about Advance, I would agree with the cure time dragging out for months.


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## more_prep (Dec 7, 2009)

Absolutely. My experience with Kem Aqua is exactly as you described. It dries to a sandable finish in 30 mins or so, cures quickly to the hardest and toughest, slickest, most burnish resistant and block resistant finish I've seen in a waterborne. It compares with solvent borne precats in that sense. I think it's the best of the waterborne lacquers. I also find it tends to sag easily on vertical surfaces, perhaps more so than other wb lacquers. However, it tends to spray with less defects (craters, microbubbles, etc) than any of the others I've tried. I think it's a great choice for cabinets. Maybe the best choice.

For architectural trim, some of the tradeoffs are different. Most surfaces are vertical. Joints are caulked, presenting a non-rigid substrate. This can cause Kem Aqua to crack as it dries on caulked areas. When spraying trim, the quick flashoff causes the overspray to dry on parts of the surface not yet painted, leaving a rough finish when they eventually get hit with a wet coat. An architectural enamel that flashes off more slowly and has more open time, but yet does not sag, and dries to a hard, slick finish in a *reasonable* time, could be a magic bullet. I want to be able to sand and recoat the same day...in case there are any sags, etc.


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## bigJ (Aug 12, 2012)

@mooreprep
It's great to see another kem aqua user on here! I thought I would have seen more by now. You are right on with the super slick hard finish w/o the bubbles/hard deposits. The first time we used it we were new to wood finishing (which is why we started with waterbornes), after the kem aqua dried in 30 minutes we rubbed our hand down the sample and looked at each other like :blink:.

That's good to know about your experience with kemaqua over caulk. I've seen it crack maybe a time or two but have not done a lot of casings, etc.

How would you compare the cured film durability of kemaqua to a high end alkyd like oil satin impervo or the wb Advance? I missed the days of oil based finishes being popular since I wasn't painting back then. However, at our office there is a high quality alkyd on the trim and from time to time I scratch and pick at it to see how tough it is. I can't make up my mind on whether the alkyd or kem aqua is hardest and burnishes less. 


more_prep said:


> An architectural enamel that flashes off more slowly and has more open time, but yet does not sag, and dries to a hard, slick finish in a *reasonable* time, could be a magic bullet. I want to be able to sand and recoat the same day...in case there are any sags, etc.


Yep, I too am still waiting on this one! I was hoping Advance would come closer to this description than it is. I'm still waiting on my advance samples to harden up. Also, you might as well forget sanding advance in b/w coats unless you have weeks to complete a job.


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## more_prep (Dec 7, 2009)

To answer your durability question, I think Kem Aqua over a primer/surfacer (Kem Aqua plus surfacer sands great, by the way, much better than Kem Aqua primer) is more durable and a harder finish than oil based Satin Impervo (though impervo hardens as it continues to cure over many months). On architectural repaints, I've had some trouble with cracking and other issues when underlying coats pull away from deeper underlying coats. I used wb primers, which don't seal that well, and something in the Kem Aqua sometimes penetrates the primer and causes problems. These are isolated spots. So far I think the durability is among the very best, due to the hard surface. There might be chipping issues if the underlying coats are softer than the Kem Aqua.

There certainly is a fine line between a wet enough coat and a sag on vertical surfaces. I thin to 45 s ford4 and spray with a devilbiss compact compliant gun. Do you thin? How are you applying it?


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## bigJ (Aug 12, 2012)

I purchase the kem aqua low gloss blending white base at my local sw in greensboro, NC. They can tint the white base w/ universal colorants. *I thin this at 5-10%*. However, deep bases have to be ordered from a branch in charlotte NC (in the kem aqua plus line) because of tinting systems. I've not had to thin a fresh batch of the kem aqua plus due to the slightly lesser viscosity. I do hate having to order the deep bases mainly because the color accuracy can be slightly off and I'm not there to see it first hand before okaying it. And there's always that shipping charge. I don't know if you've compared the data sheets on these but the kem aqua plus white has about 5% higher solids in it than the standard kem aqua blending white. Also, it's more uv resistant.

With both kem aqua products, I prefer an hvlp 1.4 tip (gravity fed). I've actually sprayed it through an airless once before and was pleasantly surprised with the results. Not quite as good atomization as hvlp though. I've not used airless again b/c of the longer clean up time and more product waste.

*For doors*: we ALWAYS spray lying horizontal for the smoothest possible finish. Marks left by flipping are rarely an issue. On horizontal surfaces you can really lay on a wet coat with this stuff and the water just evaporates right off in no time. When I build a set of new cabinets, I finish face frames and finished ends before assembling so I can spray them horizontally. Don't have to worry about painting the interiors since it is prefinished uv plywood.

*When spraying vertical is a must*: I try to thin the paint a little less to help avoid sagging. I always have a bright light in one hand and spray gun in the other to make sure I'm not crossing that "fine line" you mentioned. I also keep a hair dryer close by just in case I think a spot got a little too wet.

Hope this helps, even though it seems you may have a little more experience than me with this stuff. Concerning alkyds, in your experience with satin impervo and advance, do they display equal hardness after curing out a couple of months or more?


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## more_prep (Dec 7, 2009)

That's exactly what I do...bright light in one hand, at a glancing angle, and spray gun in the other. That way I can see when I just get enough on for a wet coat, and no more.

I've messed around with thinning to various viscosities. There seems to be a sweet spot. Less thinning does not always give less sags. Sometimes thinning allows me to put fewer mils down with good flowout, and with quicker flashoff, avoiding sags. Too much thinning approaches water, of course. I've found a ford 4 viscosity cup very useful to get consistent results. 

Also, I think I like Kem Aqua better than Kem Aqua plus. While the plus version might spray more readily with less thinning, it dries and cures more slowly. It does seem to eventually reach a hardness similar to Kem Aqua. 

Regarding Advance, I have seen semi gloss take 6 months to cure at 63 to 65 F and 50% RH. For most of that period, it felt like rubbery latex, but after 6 months, it really was as hard as Satin Impervo, and felt like a high quality akyd. SW has a similar proclassic hybrid (also promar 200 acrylic-alkyd) that cures to alkyd hardness. I've not seen any evidence that Advance Satin cures to reasonable hardness.


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## bigJ (Aug 12, 2012)

more_prep said:


> That's exactly what I do...bright light in one hand, at a glancing angle, and spray gun in the other. That way I can see when I just get enough on for a wet coat, and no more.
> 
> I've messed around with thinning to various viscosities. There seems to be a sweet spot. Less thinning does not always give less sags. Sometimes thinning allows me to put fewer mils down with good flowout, and with quicker flashoff, avoiding sags. Too much thinning approaches water, of course. I've found a ford 4 viscosity cup very useful to get consistent results.
> 
> ...


This is all very useful information to me, thanks!

Dang! Advance satin is what I'm using!  My store would have had to get the semigloss shipped in so that made my in store sheen decision. I read where the proclassic wb alkyd doesn't get as hard as advance (johnshearerpainting review) so I didn't even bother trying it. I am glad to hear you too notice the rubbery-like feel of advance as it slowly hardens over time. I've heard many comments on this forum about advance being as "hard as a rock" after one week of curing. I just couldn't understand why I wasn't getting results like that. Now I think I know better.

I have a ford #4 as well and next time I spray some vertical pieces I will definitely try the 45 seconds rule. I know what you're saying about the plus not curing as hard as fast. I have a sample of sw turkish coffee I sprayed months ago. I noticed it did not share the super-fast curing properties as standard kem aqua. I assumed that was becasue of the dark color though.


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## more_prep (Dec 7, 2009)

If we wanted to be scientific about it, we could do a pencil hardness test. To do this, you get a set of artists pencils, 
2H, HB, F, etc. Then find which ones scratch the paint and, and which don't. The "pencil hardness" is said to be between the last one that scratches and the first that doesn't. Sometimes wood finish manufacturers actually give this sec in their TDS. It would only be meaningful if the curing time is given along with the ave. temperature and humidity during curing...

Anyway, my sample of California Ultraplate looks great, Nice sheen that I would call semi, and seems to be hardening up with a slick non-blocking finish, no brush marks. Needs more cure time before I know. Has only been two days. 

I have samples of SW proclassic acrylic-alkyd semi that have cured for over a year, and are harder than cured satin impervo alkyd. I like the end result here, too. Very tough coating.

Keep us posted on your real assessment of Advance...I'm interested in what you find, having also been baffled by those reports of faster curing. How is it spraying compared with Kem Aqua?


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## regalpaints (Jul 14, 2012)

I have used silk imporvo, porter oil silk, p &l oil, grahams clay silk, and a few others. I think silk imporvo is my best bet. How does it evaluate to excellent colour of Europe?
_____________
Floor Paint


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

regalpaints said:


> I have used silk imporvo, porter oil silk, p &l oil, grahams clay silk, and a few others. I think silk imporvo is my best bet. How does it evaluate to excellent colour of Europe?
> _____________
> Floor Paint


 
huh?


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## Builtmany (Dec 5, 2009)

chrisn said:


> huh?


Must be UK Slang


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## bigJ (Aug 12, 2012)

more_prep said:


> Keep us posted on your real assessment of Advance...I'm interested in what you find, having also been baffled by those reports of faster curing. How is it spraying compared with Kem Aqua?


I'll definitely keep you posted. 

I've just brushed all of the samples since it lays out so well. Also, I didn't want too thick of a coat to be a factor in the curing process for my testing. I'll be spraying a bed with it using my trusty ol' graco fft 210 in the coming weeks... or months. I'm really wanting to be sure about putting advance on it.

I noticed some pics posted by straight_lines earlier this year using advance on some cabinet doors. He really layed a thick wet coat on them. The color was white/off-white. I wonder how long those babies took to cure. 

Tommy, would you care to comment on this?


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## TERRY365PAINTER (Jul 26, 2009)

Advance semi gloss on maple . 
2 or 3 coats ?
Cure time was my only issue ! I could lay the stuff on pretty heavy . I really never had it run on me yet . But I have only sprayed it too.


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

I assume that you are spraying them flat. it's a different story when you spray advance on vertical surfaces. most paints will look great when sprayed flat.

advance takes forever to cure and it will yellow. deal killer.


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## bigJ (Aug 12, 2012)

Terry, do you still have some dried samples of that job? How does the finish stand up against a good thumbnail scratch test? Is there a slightly tacky/rubbery like feel?

Link to Tommy Johnson's high mil coat earlier this year: https://plus.google.com/photos/100665853965833600607/albums/5710206491825380481?banner=pwa


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## Custom Brush Co. (Jan 26, 2011)

PPG Breakthrough is my favorite next to PPG Mannor Hall. Breakthrough is self priming, dries very hard and is flexible so over time it doesn't crack. Stuff dries so fast within an hour or less you can sand & re-paint! It even brushes/rolles out nice if you know how to properly get the paint on then lay off paint & hustle.

On vertical surfaces use a large day light bulb to emit an even lighting on your substrate. Use a fine finish tip (graco!) & apply a thin, even wet coating with no "fingers". overlap your spray pattern 50% (point the tip at the edge of the previous and watch it blend in moving as fast & steady as you can. I use my entire body v.s. Arm only to move my gun. Like a tai chi dude kinda.

I highly recommend this over any hybryd ever.


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## more_prep (Dec 7, 2009)

Thanks -- trying to picture tai chi with a gun in one hand, a light in the other, and a cord and a hose. How about a video 
Maybe I'll try it..I always get tangled up in the cord, especially when I use AAA with the double hose. 

Never used PPG - how do you compare the two products you mentioned to each other, and to others I might have used (many...)


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## TERRY365PAINTER (Jul 26, 2009)

I went back like a month later . If I remember right it was pretty good !! I ran all the cases they were all vertical . I just run the stuff like its oil. Do fog coats , tops 2 sections repeat . Then bottoms the same . 









Top section . 
I have done three sets of cabinets with advance with no problems of running . I won't say I am the best spray guy either . My problem s with advance in the curing times between coats for doing the doors . Took way too long for them to dry . Caused me 2 extra days . Plus an extra coat 
Next time I would try something else . They were really happy though . Good


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## bigJ (Aug 12, 2012)

Will be trying ppg breakthrough next. I went into the greensboro Porter store for the first time yesterday.... had no idea they'd been there for eight years. I was really impressed with the staff service and their pricing and regret not trying them out a couple years ago when I did notice their store. 

They had dried samples of breakthrough that felt similar to kem aqua. Probably a little less scratch resistant than kem aqua I would say. But the samples were high gloss while I always use low gloss kem aqua. The samples were a couple years old at least (so definitely fully cured out). However, the data sheet says full cure in 7 days and it is widely acknowledged as a fast drying and quick to not block paint. 

They said they have a large account who buys a ton of it for indoor and outdoor furniture and always uses deep bases with vibrant colors. I am looking forward to trying this one out!


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## Custom Brush Co. (Jan 26, 2011)

bigJ said:


> Will be trying ppg breakthrough next. I went into the greensboro Porter store for the first time yesterday.... had no idea they'd been there for eight years. I was really impressed with the staff service and their pricing and regret not trying them out a couple years ago when I did notice their store.
> 
> They had dried samples of breakthrough that felt similar to kem aqua. Probably a little less scratch resistant than kem aqua I would say. But the samples were high gloss while I always use low gloss kem aqua. The samples were a couple years old at least (so definitely fully cured out). However, the data sheet says full cure in 7 days and it is widely acknowledged as a fast drying and quick to not block paint.
> 
> They said they have a large account who buys a ton of it for indoor and outdoor furniture and always uses deep bases with vibrant colors. I am looking forward to trying this one out!


I highly recommend yoy practice spraying this before just pulling the trigger on your project. Only use fine finish tips.

Stuff runs easy. Make it hot in your environment


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## South-FL-Painter (Jan 17, 2012)

I used advance by BM today,let me tell you,this stuff is amazing!!! Lays down like Satin impervo,clean up water.Finish like babys a**.Be carefull on second coat,tends to run very fast!I have to sand 3 runs on 2 doors tomorrow and respray 2 panels.But my experience with this paint is very good.


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## bigJ (Aug 12, 2012)

*resurrecting old thread*

Meant to post this earlier this year but anyway...

After a year of paint curing I am still not impressed with bm advance hardness. I don't see any durability advantages to using this paint over a typical wb acrylic/latex. However, it does level better than a typical trim paint out of the can, but I would much rather add a little water to a latex paint and get comparable leveling than use advance. The absolute worst thing about it is you can't sand in b/w coats because it stays rubbery so long and that is a very poor characteristic for a cabinet paint imo. Book ends do stick so you'll hear a tack and cause more wear when picking up things off of bookcases (another dealbreaker), whereas I haven't seen any of that when using ppg breakthrough or sw kem aqua.

On the other hand, I was pleasantly surprised using ppg breakthrough. It's hardness is not too far from a wb lacquer. It does take it longer to get there (than a wb lacquer) but you'll have no trouble handling pieces during the finishing process as it dries to touch and sand quickly. It sands extremely easy as well, just powders up like a good shop paint...awesome! This is a must if you are looking for a high end finish. Two things it does better than kem aqua: more sag resistant and hides better. I would much rather spray breakthrough than Kem Aqua if spraying vertical. Either of these paints can be successfully sprayed using hvlp or airless (with fft). I prefer using hvlp unless I'm doing entry doors or other large surfaces. If using hvlp thin with 5-10% water.

Overall, for best looking and feeling finish I have to go with kem aqua over breakthrough, though bt is a good second choice and does have some advantages. Breakthrough needs a semi gloss sheen imo. I was not able to brush the breakthrough either, but that was no surprise based on other user comments.


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## bigJ (Aug 12, 2012)

BTW, has anyone tried any of the ppg high performance coatings such as their water borne epoxy?


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## more_prep (Dec 7, 2009)

Advance semi has cured as fast as 6 months for me...
Regarding sanding, you can wet sand it the next day, no problem. This is how I sand btw coats. Eventually it cures like an alkyd.

I'm also a big Kem Aqua fan...only issues for arch. trim are the fast dry time, runs, and that it's so hard it will crackle over caulk and joints. I don't know of any better wb finish for cabs though.


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## Hemlock (May 29, 2013)

Dulux expert is as good as advance If not better. I've been able to touch up doors with no flashing.


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## wje (Apr 11, 2009)

Hemlock said:


> Dulux expert is as good as advance If not better. I've been able to touch up doors with no flashing.


We have used it on four of our last five significant jobs three of them cabinet jobs


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## Seattlepainting (Jun 8, 2010)

Pratt & Lambert Cellutone only thing resembling what oils performed like in the mid 90's. they pay a high VOC fee grandfathered in.

FPoE Hollandlac on its own planet. Look at what the guys at Shoreline Painting are doing in their videos.

In water base Advance edges Pro Classic. C2 cabinet & trim harder than anything outside of solvents.


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