# Making Pine Look Similar to Alder



## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

This is a shot in the dark. I look at a job for which the home owners want the new kitchen window, which is pine to look similar to the clear coated alder. 
Hoping that someone might have done this before and can advise on how to get this look.

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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

I know Pine with golden oak, looks the same as Alder with just a clear coat.., if that helps.

I think it was golden oak anyway.... It was a long time ago.... I did a huge job with staining pine windows, and clearing the the alder, and they matched, with one of the common stock colors.


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## kmp (Jan 30, 2011)

If you can get a piece of the existing alder from somewhere else in the house, maybe a piece of base from a hidden area and then get a piece of clear pine in color as possible to the new window and have stain matched to the alder on it. The pine used on windows is better and often a veneer, than the pine from a lumber yard. You might have to go to the trim carpenter who installed the window to get a piece of sample wood.There is a variety of pine called radiata that is similar to a lot of wood used in new windows, you might try finding some of that to play with. Home depot around here sells it. If not it's a roll of the dice with whatever pre packaged stain you can find. You need to condition alder.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

kmp said:


> If you can get a piece of the existing alder from somewhere else in the house, maybe a piece of base from a hidden area and then get a piece of clear pine in color as possible to the new window and have stain matched to the alder on it. The pine used on windows is better and often a veneer, than the pine from a lumber yard. You might have to go to the trim carpenter who installed the window to get a piece of sample wood.There is a variety of pine called radiata that is similar to a lot of wood used in new windows, you might try finding some of that to play with. Home depot around here sells it. If not it's a roll of the dice with whatever pre packaged stain you can find. *You need to condition alder.*



Depends on which stain you are using. Lenmar alkyd stain does not need a conditioner on alder, and in fact using daly's benite under it will create a more varied appearance which can also be desirable.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

My gawd. It will never look exact, but if you use a similar product it's not exactly going to stick out like a sore thumb either. I'd say to the client, it is what it is..And I'll do my best.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

kmp said:


> If you can get a piece of the existing alder from somewhere else in the house, maybe a piece of base from a hidden area and then get a piece of clear pine in color as possible to the new window and have stain matched to the alder on it. The pine used on windows is better and often a veneer, than the pine from a lumber yard. You might have to go to the trim carpenter who installed the window to get a piece of sample wood.There is a variety of pine called radiata that is similar to a lot of wood used in new windows, you might try finding some of that to play with. Home depot around here sells it. If not it's a roll of the dice with whatever pre packaged stain you can find. You need to condition alder.


Thanks about info on the pine. I did not know that it is usually different. The Adler is already coated with some kind of poly. And, it seemed to have a grayish color to it.

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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

finishesbykevyn said:


> My gawd. It will never look exact, but if you use a similar product it's not exactly going to stick out like a sore thumb either. I'd say to the client, it is what it is..And I'll do my best.


Exactly. Don’t ever promise a customer a dead on match. If you do achieve it, great. Take the credit but deep down realize that luck, more than skill, likely had much to do with it. :wink:

I always tell customers that close is a winner in these things. Hell, two pieces of the same wood type will stain out differently. Just explain wood is wood and that if they want a consistent look, to have you paint it. If they seem like they aren’t going to accept that, then excuse yourself early on and avoid some headaches and frustration.

Oh, and if you do take it on, always charge T&M. These jobs can become endless rabbit holes at times.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

RH said:


> Exactly. Don’t ever promise a customer a dead on match. If you do achieve it, great. Take the credit but deep down realize that luck, more than skill, likely had much to do with it. :wink:
> 
> I always tell customers that close is a winner in these things. Hell, two pieces of the same wood type will stain out differently. Just explain wood is wood and that if they want a consistent look, to have you paint it. If they seem like they aren’t going to accept that, then excuse yourself early on and avoid some headaches and frustration.
> 
> Oh, and if you do take it on, always charge T&M. These jobs can become endless rabbit holes at times.


In the estimate I am sending them. I am giving them 2 prices. One price is for the actual application of the stain and poly. The other price is T&M for going through the process of finding a good match. I am also telling them that this is not something that I do a lot of and that nothing will actually be put on the trim until a sample is approved by them.

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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

I just remembered: Fruitwood. Pine with fruitwood, looks (almost) exactly like Alder with a clear.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

First is pine with fruitwood, second is alder clear coated.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

Woodco said:


> First is pine with fruitwood, second is alder clear coated.


Thanks @Woodco! I thought that the Adler I looked at was grayish. But the kitchen was dark and I only gave it a quick look. If they hire me I will be a better look and try the fuitwood stain if their Adler looks like the one in the image.

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## PPD (Mar 19, 2018)

Well you have the advantage of similar grain pattern & pore size on both woods + the fact they’re both rather soft.

I second the advice that you tell ur client a match job can never be guaranteed & that its got a lot to do with luck of the draw (especially when matching woods). 

Other than that my recommendations are:
-condition it before staining/glazing to avoid the horrid blocking pine can have. 
-Use a penetrating stain thats 1-2 shades darker than what you want it to be when done. If they’re asking for the reddish knotty alder type finish-Possibly american walnut? 
Penetrating stains are made w/ aniline dyes instead of pigments & less solids & driers so it gives you more leeway to wipe back & achieve the final tone in layers instead of going full bore.
-If you want to apply additional layers of stain color over the penetrating stain, seal it with a thin coat of shellac first so it doesn’t wipe away your existing tone. 
-Use a well worn chip brush & drag it through the top few layers of stain or glaze to get the straight grain pattern.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Pete Martin the Painter said:


> This is a shot in the dark. I look at a job for which the home owners want the new kitchen window, which is pine to look similar to the clear coated alder.
> Hoping that someone might have done this before and can advise on how to get this look.
> 
> Sent from my SM-A600U using Tapatalk


Most paint stores offer the courtesy of custom-color matching stains. 
As previously suggested try to get a sample of both woods to give to your paint store. 

You can also experiment with sanding sealer vs. no sanding sealer, and leaving stain on for longer/shorter time before wiping and/or with multiple coats of stain.Multiple coats of stain darkens the color (obviously) but it also hides the grain more, so this is useful sometimes.


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## PPD (Mar 19, 2018)

Another thought/question- do u have a relationship or know of a good faux finisher in your area that could help?


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

PPD said:


> Another thought/question- do u have a relationship or know of a good faux finisher in your area that could help?


I believe that we do, but I have never (as far as I know) met the person. And since I have not heard a peep from the home owner since I sent the estimate all of this info might be moot...unless I get another customer that want the same thing done. 

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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

For matching pine to alder I’d probably use a lightfast water aniline dye. 
I always keep a bunch of powder dye packets on hand for color matching. A 1 oz dye packet will typically yield up to a qt of dye. They end up costing me ~ $3/pack unlike the $11+ that most retailers are charging. Great for most softwoods because they rarely blotch. Gotta be careful with lightfastness when working with dyes, making certain to use the correct dye for surfaces subjected to UV light such as windows.


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## jennifertemple (Oct 30, 2011)

RH said:


> Hell, two pieces of the same wood type will stain out differently.


I just did a run of treads and risers in black cherry. The look was consistent right up to the OLD oak bull nose at the 2nd floor. A hundred years of drying made it really thirsty. I wiped on and instantly wiped off and I still had to sand a bit of the stain back, it was 2-3 times the depth of color to the new wood! I never got it really close. (It looks OK now but there is a clear difference)


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Alchemy Redux said:


> For matching pine to alder I’d probably use a lightfast water aniline dye.
> I always keep a bunch of powder dye packets on hand for color matching. A 1 oz dye packet will typically yield up to a qt of dye. They end up costing me ~ $3/pack unlike the $11+ that most retailers are charging. Great for most softwoods because they rarely blotch. Gotta be careful with lightfastness when working with dyes, making certain to use the correct dye for surfaces subjected to UV light such as windows.


What is your source for buying these packets at $3/?


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

Holland said:


> What is your source for buying these packets at $3/?


Picked them up at the manufacturer in Manhattan, W.D. Lockwood...they don’t have online ordering. I purchased 35 for $158 plus they threw in an additional dozen of their newer colors. It worked out to $3.36 per packet for the 47. I’m “guessing” they probably retail for $4.50 or more purchasing directly from WD.

They charge me roughly $28/#, the pounds coming in metal qt cans. 1# yields 4-8 gallons. 

They do blotch on softwoods to some degree but not nearly as much as with pigmented oil stains. For a light color on pine to match Alder they’d likely be fine, eliminating any pre-treatment/conditioning. There are several different methods to condition the wood when using dyes...I’ve only found the need to do that with the oil anilines.


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## Vinyl 54X (Mar 12, 2019)

Pete Martin the Painter said:


> I believe that we do, but I have never (as far as I know) met the person. And since I have not heard a peep from the home owner since I sent the estimate all of this info might be moot...unless I get another customer that want the same thing done.
> 
> Sent from my SM-A600U using Tapatalk


Sometimes the best job is the one you didn't get.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Alchemy Redux said:


> Picked them up at the manufacturer in Manhattan, W.D. Lockwood...they don’t have online ordering. I purchased 35 for $158 plus they threw in an additional dozen of their newer colors. It worked out to $3.36 per packet for the 47. I’m “guessing” they probably retail for $4.50 or more purchasing directly from WD.
> 
> They charge me roughly $28/#, the pounds coming in metal qt cans. 1# yields 4-8 gallons.
> 
> They do blotch on softwoods to some degree but not nearly as much as with pigmented oil stains. For a light color on pine to match Alder they’d likely be fine, eliminating any pre-treatment/conditioning. There are several different methods to condition the wood when using dyes...I’ve only found the need to do that with the oil anilines.



Thanks. 
I have used a aniline dye on a few projects in the past, and found it easy to work with, and especially useful for mixing custom tints on the spot. 
May raise the gain a bit more than traditional oil based stains.

I seem to get a fair amount of work repairing damaged lacquer around windows, and have used this dye for quick, custom touch-up stains sometimes. The color combinations that can be created are only limited by color mixing ability (ie., color theory and application).


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Woodco said:


> I just remembered: Fruitwood. Pine with fruitwood, looks (almost) exactly like Alder with a clear.



fruitwood is another name for cherry. Alder similar look to cherry so no surprise there.


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## kmp (Jan 30, 2011)

Alder is the poor mans cherry when you want the look but not the price.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

kmp said:


> Alder is the poor mans cherry when you want the look but not the price.



We work with a lot of alder here. Benite and Lenmar alkyd stain look really great.


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## kmp (Jan 30, 2011)

Alder is popular here as well. What I don't like is when people choose a really dark stain and hide the real color of the wood. But I only apply.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

kmp said:


> Alder is popular here as well. What I don't like is when people choose a really dark stain and hide the real color of the wood. But I only apply.


There's a fancy restaurant here that has a really expensive species of mahogany but it's stained so heavy it's almost black!


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> There's a fancy restaurant here that has a really expensive species of mahogany but it's stained so heavy it's almost black!


We did a bank addition and when that was finished we completely redid the original bank building, all the trim, I'm talking about five-piece 12" crown molding, four-piece 10" baseboard, all doors, and ornate frames were all solid walnut. We stained them all oriental walnut, which is almost black. It hid almost all of the beauty of the grain, what a fricken waste of money and beautiful wood!:vs_mad:


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