# Deck prep for restain question.



## JonM (Aug 3, 2012)

Hey deck pros. I have a question. I have a house I'm quoting with two decks. One on 3rd floor and one on ground floor. The house is waterfront on the ocean. The old stain is almost disintegrated. It was a water based stain as it is peeling everywhere. My question is this: do I need to use a stripper ? I would like to try and sand the old coating off with 60 or 80 and then again with 120 because I don't want the stripper being washed down the sides of the house and ruining the paint etc. 

I will ultimately use a cleaner brightener prior to applying a stain but would like to avoid the stripper if possible by sanding instead.

Thanks in advance for the info.


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

A strong bleach was is definitely going to be needed but you can sand if you have no rails to worry about. My only question would be as to how you are going to get between the floor boards.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

I avoid stripper like the plague for the reasons you stated and others. I've done a lot of deck stripping with just pressure wash and sand. I really don't think it takes much more effort than using chemicals all things considered. Especially when the old coating is destroyed anyway.
I usually just use 80 grit and do it once. Rougher paper is faster but can leave swirls, hence doing it twice.
Sometimes you can get a lot out of the cracks with a putty knife or razor knife just by scraping and blowing/vacuuming them out. I have used a dremmel with the small sanding drum for cracks, but it only works in certain situations.


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## JonM (Aug 3, 2012)

I haven't considered how ill get in between the cracks. I do have a dremmel with the flat sanding attachment and could get the barrel shaped one. Any other suggestions?


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Smart strip rolled on and covered by plastic. It could take several days of dwell time to remove it all. Good thing is you won't have stripper running everywhere, smart strip is really thick and stays where you put it and you can scrape it up and dispose.


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## GrantsPainting (Feb 4, 2013)

WOW. Between the glass and the bright white... IDK. And on the beach.. I might sandblast and charge a ton to do it. Then only sand what is too close to the powder coated black. Looks like a pole that you need to keep the stripper off.:thumbup:


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## Ramsden Painting (Jul 17, 2011)

This is why I enjoy Paintalk. Good question and professional experienced answers

Sent from my iPad using PaintTalk


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

This might be an ideal situation for sanding. You could then bleach as needed to remove any leftover mildew. You could use a dustless system or not. Some of those rooftop decks are assembled in panels which can be removed , taken outside, cleaned with chemicals and stained and installed. There must be drainage systems in place, so you could use low pressure cleaning system.


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## 1camper (Feb 17, 2013)

I'd strip it. Tell the customer you will have to wash that end of the house. Apply a stain remover with 4" brush covering all the edges. Dwell time shouldn't be more than 3 hours for one coat of peeling paint which is what the pics look like to me.. you have to keep the surface from drying during this time by misting it with water. Once the stain let's go, just pressure wash it off and don't allow the debris to sit on painted surfaces long. Strip some deck, rinse the walls, repeat. I've stripped decks next to painted surfaces many times, The stripper that hits the house is way diluted and has no dwell time because you constantly rinse.


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## Tonyg (Dec 9, 2007)

Looks like it was varnished 

Have fun with that. I recommend "D" - All the above!


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

1camper said:


> I'd strip it. Tell the customer you will have to wash that end of the house. Apply a stain remover with 4" brush covering all the edges. Dwell time shouldn't be more than 3 hours for one coat of peeling paint which is what the pics look like to me.. you have to keep the surface from drying during this time by misting it with water. Once the stain let's go, just pressure wash it off and don't allow the debris to sit on painted surfaces long. Strip some deck, rinse the walls, repeat. I've stripped decks next to painted surfaces many times, The stripper that hits the house is way diluted and has no dwell time because you constantly rinse.


+1 protect the glass and surrounding areas from the concentrated stipper. Rinse off the wash water frequently, and your good to go.


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

You could try a commercial grade floor sander. That might work. You can hook it up to a vac and some will come with one built-in. 

Then just hit the corner with a palm or detail sander. Some of the floor sanders are pretty aggressive so that might speed things up. Just something to think about.

Let us know how you went about it ultimately.


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## GrantsPainting (Feb 4, 2013)

woodcoyote said:


> You could try a commercial grade floor sander. That might work. You can hook it up to a vac and some will come with one built-in.
> 
> Then just hit the corner with a palm or detail sander. Some of the floor sanders are pretty aggressive so that might speed things up. Just something to think about.
> 
> Let us know how you went about it ultimately.


This is what I was thinking, but Id want to remove the railing first to get an all around finished job. Like the failure never happened. Plus then with a true fresh wood surface then they could go with the clear film forming urethane coating that sikkens makes. Instead of that cheap box store system that they put on before. That is if thats what they want. Of course you have to keep it up or it will crack and fail too. Plus try talking them into dragging that floor sander through their home... I agree though, it would give the best opportunity for a high quality finished job.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

GrantsPainting said:


> . Plus then with a true fresh wood surface then they could go with the clear film forming urethane coating that sikkens makes.



All the Sikkens deck stuff I've seen has to be applied to all sides of the board. Is there one I haven't seen? Haven't seen clear either, except the door and window.


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## GrantsPainting (Feb 4, 2013)

joshmays1976 said:


> All the Sikkens deck stuff I've seen has to be applied to all sides of the board. Is there one I haven't seen? Haven't seen clear either, except the door and window.


I dont remember what its called. I think SRD. Its not clear it translucent. Its what the folks to the south in Brown County use on all those log cabins. Not sure if it calls to treat all sides of the board but I can see why. If water is absorbed into the bottom of the deck then it sure isn't going to be able to leach through that coating. I do know that if you don't use the primer coat (three step system) which most don't... You are asking for issues.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

GrantsPainting said:


> I dont remember what its called. I think SRD. Its not clear it translucent. Its what the folks to the south in Brown County use on all those log cabins. Not sure if it calls to treat all sides of the board but I can see why. If water is absorbed into the bottom of the deck then it sure isn't going to be able to leach through that coating. I do know that if you don't use the primer coat (three step system) which most don't... You are asking for issues.


 No, I don't think the SRD does call for back priming. I was thinking of the DEK line. The high build stuff. 
This looks like a deck that will take some moisture in from the bottom the way it's boxed in. I'm sure there is a drain, but still.


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## GrantsPainting (Feb 4, 2013)

joshmays1976 said:


> No, I don't think the SRD does call for back priming. I was thinking of the DEK line. The high build stuff.
> This looks like a deck that will take some moisture in from the bottom the way it's boxed in. I'm sure there is a drain, but still.


Thats the one. The DEK. Yup. 

Does the DEK call for the entire board(bottom) to be coated?

I just love how the maintenance coats just melt into the worn coating and give it life like it the gatorade its been longing for.


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

Not 100% sure of foot traffic, maybe someone can speak up on this more than I can. We don't have decks out here too much or wood floors for that matter.

But what about Epifanes or equivalent marine varnish? I'm just thinking weather conditions here, not sure how it holds up with traffic though. Seems to be pretty good for the weather though. <shrugs>


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

GrantsPainting said:


> Thats the one. The DEK. Yup.
> 
> Does the DEK call for the entire board(bottom) to be coated?
> 
> I just love how the maintenance coats just melt into the worn coating and give it life like it the gatorade its been longing for.


 Yea, that's the deal with the DEK stuff, all sides of the board have to be done for it to perform to spec. My BM dealer quit carrying it because it so not practical except for new construction. A lot of people were just using it on top and it would fail. 

I've had decent luck with it by doing the bottom side of existing decks too. Not technically to spec, but close. Here is some after 3 years on a hot tub deck( lotta moisture). Should have maintianced it after 2 years at most, its starting to fail. 
This deck is cedar. It had a failed coating on it before I did it. It was stripped by sanding only/ no chems.


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## GrantsPainting (Feb 4, 2013)

joshmays1976 said:


> Yea, that's the deal with the DEK stuff, all sides of the board have to be done for it to perform to spec. My BM dealer quit carrying it because it so not practical except for new construction. A lot of people were just using it on top and it would fail.
> 
> I've had decent luck with it by doing the bottom side of existing decks too. Not technically to spec, but close. Here is some after 3 years on a hot tub deck( lotta moisture). Should have maintianced it after 2 years at most, its starting to fail.
> This deck is cedar. It had a failed coating on it before I did it. It was stripped by sanding only/ no chems.



I use bleach anyway because it balances the PH in the worn cedar or new pine. Theres nothing wrong with chem removal as long as its rinsed VERY well and then neutralized IMO. Yea I wont apply the product if I think they won't maintain it every two or three at most.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

GrantsPainting said:


> I use bleach anyway because it balances the PH in the worn cedar or new pine. Theres nothing wrong with chem removal as long as its rinsed VERY well and then neutralized IMO. Yea I wont apply the product if I think they won't maintain it every two or three at most.


I'm sorry but using bleach to balance ph of wood makes absolutely no sense. Studies show that bleach actually damages the wood lignin and fibers when viewed at a microscopic level. And yes as you point out it will require maintenance every 2-3 years. Sodium hydroxide is the most common ingredient in deck strippers, often combined with a sodium hypochlorite ingredient , (basically bleach) and then neutralized with oxalic acid as a brightener. The BM brightener uses both oxalic and citric acid.


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## 1camper (Feb 17, 2013)

Sanding? Remove the rails? You guys are making this way more difficult than it has to be, imo.


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

I didn't see where anybody recommended removing the rails. I don't sand off finishes nor do I recommend it usually but I agree with Tony that it looks like a varnish and stripper, especially something store bought, isn't going to remove it.


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## GrantsPainting (Feb 4, 2013)

Damon T said:


> I'm sorry but using bleach to balance ph of wood makes absolutely no sense. Studies show that bleach actually damages the wood lignin and fibers when viewed at a microscopic level. And yes as you point out it will require maintenance every 2-3 years. Sodium hydroxide is the most common ingredient in deck strippers, often combined with a sodium hypochlorite ingredient , (basically bleach) and then neutralized with oxalic acid as a brightener. The BM brightener uses both oxalic and citric acid.


OK dont do it then... But certainly dont mix an acid with an alkaline. They both become ineffective and can cause major issues. My customers dont look at their fence with a microscope and nobody can make a fence coating last longer than mine do...


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## 1camper (Feb 17, 2013)

PressurePros said:


> I didn't see where anybody recommended removing the rails. I don't sand off finishes nor do I recommend it usually but I agree with Tony that it looks like a varnish and stripper, especially something store bought, isn't going to remove it.


See Post #13. "Store bought" what does this mean? Is SW or BM a store? The stuff looks to be in really poor condition. Any stain stripper will take it off if the directions are followed correctly.


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## GrantsPainting (Feb 4, 2013)

1camper said:


> See Post #13. "Store bought" what does this mean? Is SW or BM a store? The stuff looks to be in really poor condition. Any stain stripper will take it off if the directions are followed correctly.


I respectfully disagree. It would drip off with hydrofluoric acid and you won't find that in a store. 

I agree, removing the rails is asking for hurt. However the floor sander next to the glass is also asking for hurt. 
I have an attachment that Venturis(verb???) in sand with the water. It would have that off in no time and they are already on the beach so the sand is not a problem. 6 mil plastic would protect the railing just fine. 

I say chem or wet sandblast. Sanding would work too but...  My back, my knees. My back AND my knees.


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## 1camper (Feb 17, 2013)

Wet sandblast?? ..it just gets worse. You'd be better off just replacing the boards.


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## GrantsPainting (Feb 4, 2013)

1camper said:


> Wet sandblast?? ..it just gets worse. You'd be better off just replacing the boards.


Go ahead and sand it camper. You better bring your tent, cause you'll be camping out there for awhile. Let me suggest a sponge sanding block - the fine grit ones work the best on decks. OOORRRR use a belt sander. Just be sure to point it in the direction of the glass!


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## JonM (Aug 3, 2012)

I've got a couple of orbital sanders that me an my guy will run over the surface with. 95% of the previous stain is completely gone so it shouldn't be more than a few hours. 

By the way, I normally use dulux's oil based semi-trans but have heard sherwin's deckscapes is bullet proof. Have also heard sikkens is good but the one time I've used the SRD I was not at all impressed. Suggestions?


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## KD PAINTING (Nov 8, 2012)

I would sand the entire deck and powerwash...use bleach when washing. Good Luck!


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