# I don't do decks



## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

Opportunities just don't seem to happen for decks. I'm doing some 'Hammer' work for this couple and they asked me to quote them for a recoat on the two decks. 

This one is cedar, they coated it last year and its peeled already. (they don't know what they used) Solutions? Process?










Front looks like a solid stain? Again, process?










Pretty good shape except this part over the garden exposed more to the elements. In the pic it looks like it could be cedar, but the shape says its 5/4 treated lumber.










What do you say as far as maintenance programs? Realistic timeline for recoat?


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## 4ThGeneration (Apr 17, 2007)

Cedar should not be painted. It bleeds out tannins which cause the top coats of paint to fail. That's why you see those little razor like slits in the hand rail close up shot you have. Its coating failure.


Strip, pH balance and coat with a semi trans like Armstrong Clark. You want a deep penetrating oil stain to be applied to it.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Sodium hydroxide strip and neutralize/brighten for the stained deck. TSP wash for the solid deck, maybe need your orbital sander to even out the flaking areas....no biggie. Pretty straight forward job.


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## Different Strokes (Dec 8, 2010)

Here is the process I usually follow when approached with something like that. 

First, and this is important not to miss, I start by stepping with my right foot, casually followed by my left. Now, as the distance increases, so does pace, so normally I'd like to make it back to my truck and be down the road in 45 to 50 seconds.. Sorry P&H, only thing I do on a deck it grill. People around here really don't want to pay to have them done right. Or maybe I just stink at selling deck work, dunno. Normally they want another coat of whatever is on there applied again, and good enough. Even if it's failing miserably. 

cute kid in the other thread!


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

Ventilation is the issue on both decks. To truly solve the problem, both have to be stripped and a penetrating oil (with no acylic to form a film) has to be applied. If you don't do decks... pass. Both, especially the solid, are going to be very labor intensive.


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## cappaint (May 24, 2011)

yeh i despise decks. Labor intensive, filthy jobs and people dont want to pay for it.


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## Roamer (Jul 5, 2010)

NCPaint1 said:


> Sodium hydroxide strip and neutralize/brighten for the stained deck. TSP wash for the solid deck, maybe need your orbital sander to even out the flaking areas....no biggie. Pretty straight forward job.


Peel Away? Really? What a mess. Sodium Hydroxide can change the color of the wood and then there is the long wait between neutralization and and the deck drying out.


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

PressurePros said:


> Ventilation is the issue on both decks. To truly solve the problem, both have to be stripped and a penetrating oil (with no acylic to form a film) has to be applied. If you don't do decks... pass. Both, especially the solid, are going to be very labor intensive.



I hear you. If someone cold called me I wouldn't even entertain it. 

I'm there for something else and as they said, "either you do it or we'll call Collage Pro". At least with me I'll give it an honest kick at the can rather than a few 18 year olds putting whatever ICI had on special that week. (maybe a bit cynical on my part)

They're good folk, live near my house, worked for them in the past.

I'd like to give them an option at least. 

----

When you said "strip" do you mean a chemical strip or does a pressure wash suffice? 

I did a pressure treated deck 4 years ago with a Sikkens product and I just happened to be there this morning and it looked pretty good. Some wear where they shovel and walk, but all n' all pretty good.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Roamer said:


> Peel Away? Really? What a mess. Sodium Hydroxide can change the color of the wood and then there is the long wait between neutralization and and the deck drying out.


Who said Peel away? Stripping is easy on the transparent. Brightening can be done the next day easily provided it doesn't rain, and is somewhat decent weather.

The solid deck is fooked, unless someone wants it completely stripped there's not much to do other than what I suggested earlier. Clean, light sand the bad areas and recoat.


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

Strip = chemical stripping process with a doisum hydroxide based stripper. I can point you to pro stuff but that solid is going to be a nightmare. It may take 3 strips (as in three full applications, dwell time and full wash) and I doubt you will get it all off so also factor a good amount of hand sanding. To me, it doesn't even look like a solid, it looks like porch paint, which will be even worse. Luckily, its floor only and its not real big. Based on what I see in the picture you can count on one (long) day to strip, a messy cleanup and maybe another couple of hours sanding. 

Decks will turn dark using a base (pH) stripper. You don't have to wait for it to dry. use an oxalic acid brightener/balancer with a surfactant in it, and it will cut right through standing water.


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## 4ThGeneration (Apr 17, 2007)

I could not imagine restoring deck and having to wait on the deck to dry before I neutralized it. Dang it Scotty.


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## crazyson2001 (Jan 3, 2010)

I think I would probably just sand the porch and be done with it, especially since it is a small area. At least you know going in that sanding will work 100%. I had a strip job not work well a couple times, and it was such a time waster. Now, when the stripper is in doubt, I just go right to sanding.

And yes....it is very hard to sell a deck job at the price needed to do it right. No decks at my house , thats for sure.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

This is where knowing your customers expectations plays a huge factor, and multiple prices are a good thing. Give them a band-aid bid, and a full restore bid. Explain the difference in the two options and let them decide.


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> This is where knowing your customers expectations plays a huge factor, and multiple prices are a good thing. Give them a band-aid bid, and a full restore bid. Explain the difference in the two options and let them decide.


agreed.....again.

As mentioned I know these good folk....no worries. Tell them what I know, what I think....go from there. 

Honestly, I find it hard to believe most around here would bother with the 'right' way. 

98% would go to HD, pressure wash, recoat, complain the next summer, repeat.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Paint and Hammer said:


> agreed.....again.
> 
> As mentioned I know these good folk....no worries. Tell them what I know, what I think....go from there.
> 
> ...


Well, lets say you do strip it all on the solid and start over with a penetrating oil. This is the "right way", I think most would agree including myself. Well, reality is that every 2-3 years it should be maintained anyways. 

I'm not sure what is gained by doing all that "restoration" work, unless the customer really wants the change in aesthetic. Then it would have value to them. Otherwise, if you push that as the only option and they don't value it, they will not hire you, and you lose a profitable opportunity to do a fast cleanup/re coat of a solid.

Of course its not ideal, and of course I wouldn't suggest a porch paint on a deck if it were new. But it is what it is. Gotta work with reality, sometimes its profitable to do so.


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

TJ Paint said:


> Well, lets say you do strip it all on the solid and start over with a penetrating oil. This is the "right way", I think most would agree including myself. Well, reality is that every 2-3 years it should be maintained anyways.
> 
> I'm not sure what is gained by doing all that "restoration" work, unless the customer really wants the change in aesthetic. Then it would have value to them. Otherwise, if you push that as the only option and they don't value it, they will not hire you, and you lose a profitable opportunity to do a fast cleanup/re coat of a solid.
> 
> Of course its not ideal, and of course I wouldn't suggest a porch paint on a deck if it were new. But it is what it is. Gotta work with reality, sometimes its profitable to do so.



Its in this world of reality I like to function. You nailed it with, "I'm not sure what is gained by doing all that "restoration" work, unless the customer really wants the change in aesthetic."....anyway I like to know the right way (why I asked.....and thanks for the info PP)...I'm sure they will go with and be happy with a sand, wash and recoat.


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## BreatheEasyHP (Apr 24, 2011)

For the ventilation, it's not too hard to use a circular saw with a guide to widen the gaps, then do the same using a router to match that beveled edge. I've _heard _of this being done.

Sure-fire way to make money on decks, as well as ensure the finish is durable:

Sub it out. 

Find someone really good who specializes in decks. Decks deserve specialists.


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