# Micro bubbles in first paint coat after primer....grrrr



## Mutha4ya

Ok here’s what I’ve been having a problem with, wanted to see if anyone else had it too. I shoot primer coats, no issues. Same as it ever was. First coat of color goes on (SW ProClassic) and I’m getting tiny bubbles in the paint instantly upon settling. I’ll put a picture here so y’all can see the situation. Anyone else having this problem? Have you figured out a solution?


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## finishesbykevyn

What are you painting? How did you apply product. Which primer?A little back story would help.


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## Joe67

finishesbykevyn said:


> What are you painting? How did you apply product. Which primer?A little back story would help.


+1. How do you expect anyone to evaluate what's going on if that description is all you've got? The 140-280 character world has become a problem.


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## Mutha4ya

Shooting SW Preprite over bare birch, maple, and poplar using a Graco X5 with a 311 tip. I’ve used this same setup for years and never had any issue. I just started having it when I got a new batch of primer and I am thinking that’s what it is, but I wanted to see if anyone else was having a similar issue.


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## cocomonkeynuts

Mutha4ya said:


> Shooting SW Preprite over bare birch, maple, and poplar using a Graco X5 with a 311 tip. I’ve used this same setup for years and never had any issue. I just started having it when I got a new batch of primer and I am thinking that’s what it is, but I wanted to see if anyone else was having a similar issue.


solvent entrapment

how soon you are you recoating?


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## MikeCalifornia

How much did you thin? It looks like overthinning to me. Lots of water trying to evaporate to quickly.


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## Masterwork

Shouldn't be thinning it for an airless, only an HVLP.


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## finishesbykevyn

Looks like a classic case of Fish Eye to me. I'm thinking either surface or spray line contamination. Your still being allufe. Which line of ProClassic did you use? Did you dust/tack cloth your surface?


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## finishesbykevyn

Actually upon a closer look, they do look like bubbles.!Weird. Definitely solvent entrapment.


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## celicaxx

Some dude on Youtube had an issue using Proclassic with bubbling and fish eye. Personally since about 2016 I've had mediocre luck using Proclassic. It's just been very inconsistent in how it applied and at first I blamed humidity or the room being too hot, but after getting burnt too many times I swore off it. 





This is the Youtube video in question. 



> This could possibly be an issue with the rheology modifier in the paint. This effects the elasticity in water based paints. This has been an issue a few times at the Sherwin plant I work at. Usually it is caught by our QC dept. and corrected before filled. Sorry had this issue.


Comment from an anonymous factory worker in the video. I've heard more anonymous SW factory workers speak up about mistakes or problems too, but not specifically with Proclassic.

I'm probably one of the most Sherwin supporting people on this board, but they do have QC issues, that seem to come up more often on trim/become more apparent on trim. BM isn't perfect but imo is usually more consistent batch to batch, which is really important on trim as trim takes the most time to do right compared to everything else on a paint job, and it's the part touched the most/etc. Unfortunately where I am now there's a monopoly on BM and the pricing is out of this world impractical but Advance will do you a lot better than Proclassic latex and still be pretty near in price.


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## kentdalimp

Ran into a similar problem a few years ago in Raleigh NC. SW got involved and claimed it was surface contaminates likely spread through the HVAC. Kept having the issue even with the AC off and cleaning / Solvent wiping before application.

Finally switched from SW Quick Dry to Zinnser Coverstain and immediately solved the problem. Finish was ProClassic Acrylic.

Try a different primer with same prep and see if it solves the issue.


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## Ricks Painting

ive had this happen even with SW emerald urethane ill never use that trash again


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## Samuel

If you notice the bubbles popping soon after application, they usually go away on their own without leaving craters. If not, adjust your paint, roller or technique to minimize bubbling. Painting in high heat tends to speed up drying, so paint bubbles don't have a chance to pop before they dry.


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## IsabellaCI

celicaxx said:


> Some dude on Youtube had an issue using Proclassic with bubbling and fish eye. Personally since about 2016 I've had mediocre luck using Proclassic. It's just been very inconsistent in how it applied and at first I blamed humidity or the room being too hot, but after getting burnt too many times I swore off it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the Youtube video in question.
> 
> 
> Comment from an anonymous factory worker in the video. I've heard more anonymous SW factory workers speak up about mistakes or problems too, but not specifically with Proclassic.
> 
> I'm probably one of the most Sherwin supporting people on this board, but they do have QC issues, that seem to come up more often on trim/become more apparent on trim. BM isn't perfect but imo is usually more consistent batch to batch, which is really important on trim as trim takes the most time to do right compared to everything else on a paint job, and it's the part touched the most/etc. Unfortunately where I am now there's a monopoly on BM and the pricing is out of this world impractical but Advance will do you a lot better than Proclassic latex and still be pretty near in price.


In the last two months I had a major problem with Emerald Urethane. I’d spray it like I always had straight from the can with 310fflp on a Graco Ultimate. It laid out nice, but would have fisheyes all over. With a magnifier, you could see a spec of dust in the middle of the craters. I figured it was my prep. I sanded and resprayed numerous times. Same thing. I was vacuuming, microfibering, and even tack clothing. Trying different combos. Eventually, I made a bunch of test panels and prepped them all differently and marked them and took notes. Different types of sandpaper, different materials for wiping, etc. Each panel had half primed with SW shellac, and half with SW Premium wall and wood. 
I sprayed advance and it came out perfect. The first piece of the unit I had sprayed with emerald and painted the trim in customer’s house with a beautiful finish a month earlier. I noticed that the empty can from that had a different batch number than the 4 cans of emerald I had been having problems with. I got two more cans of emerald. One of that same batch, and one of a different batch. I sprayed the new batch and it was flawless. I then sprayed the new can of the questionable batch and had fisheyes everywhere. The viscosity of that batch was at least double of the other batch which seemed more what I was used to. Sherwin was involved in this whole process. I sent the results to my rep and they pulled all that batch from the store. The managers at my store keep trying to give me discounts on future projects, but I lost thousands on this including almost $1,500 out of pocket. We’ll see what happens, I’m still in negotiations with corporate. The manager even tried saying the batch was fine and it was operator error. He didn’t know the batch was pulled or how in depth I was working with corporate and my rep who were out to see it. Anyway, during this mess I did at least 90 hours of research and learned an immense amount about different aspects of the paint chemistry (a lot about surfactants). The batch was obviously missing some ingredients, and I’m willing to bet one of those was the surfactants. I even know the exact surfactants they use, where it’s made, and when it was shipped to Miami(sorry for the unnecessary information lol). The surfactants should make the emerald so it doesn’t fisheye around the random minute particle. Nobody can be 100% perfect every time. I even sprayed the new batch on the test panels after I sanded and microfibered them intentionally leaving a little dust on them and obviously you could see the dust in the finish, but not one fisheye. Sorry for rambling, just wanted to share more on Sherwin QC.


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## malan828

I am have the same issue with KILZ2 using a Graco x7. I sprayed 2 rooms with no primer just latex paint multiple times and had no bubbles or issues then the Third room i purchased a 2 gallon bucket of KILZ2 from one location and it worked great. i purchased 2 more gallons from a different location and now i have a disaster on my hands bubbles everywhere. Now a simple thing is turned into a mission!


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