# Pratt & Lambert consistently better than SW for all products.



## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Every time we use p&l the job goes well. Across the board, accolade,red seal, gold and silver consistently are better than sw or ben. What do you guys think?


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## playedout6 (Apr 27, 2009)

We used it some a couple of years ago and got along great with it . It has since been replaced by another product that is not as good IMO . We now mostly use PPG .


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Zoomer said:


> Every time we use p&l the job goes well. Across the board, accolade,red seal, gold and silver consistently are better than sw or ben. What do you guys think?


 Gonna give them a whirl soon.Just had a new paint store open up in my hometown.Till then Sw had no competion.They carry P&l.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Hands down the accolade exterior is much better than duration and imo slightly better than aura.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Zoomer said:


> Hands down the accolade exterior is much better than duration and imo slightly better than aura.


 Reasonably priced?


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Mudbone. Pricing is coming up 7~8$ cheaper than superpaint or duration for their redseal or accolade.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

I have had great experiences with PL. 

The only hurdle was it has been supplied only by a "Lumber yard" and the service factor kinda bites.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

I thought P&L was owned by SW.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

It is.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Paradigmzz said:


> It is.


And its the same products with different labels. P&L gold =PM 200....P&L Silver = PM 400......P&L Bronze = P&L 700

P&L Red Seal = SuperPaint


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

OOh- Paint Myth Busters!


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

NCPaint1 said:


> And its the same products with different labels. P&L gold =PM 200....P&L Silver = PM 400......P&L Bronze = P&L 700
> 
> P&L Red Seal = SuperPaint


I'm not saying you're wrong on this but
My experience with Gold in particular has been that the sheen of the eggshell is distinctively less than what promar 200 is. 

I don't think they are quite the same.

Plus what would be the sw equivalent to accolade? It's definitely not duration.

I know they are made by SW but the paint is a bit different.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

TJ Paint said:


> I'm not saying you're wrong on this but
> My experience with Gold in particular has been that the sheen of the eggshell is distinctively less than what promar 200 is.
> 
> I don't think they are quite the same.
> ...


Accolade is exclusive to P&L, Duration is Exclusive to SW. Not every product directly crosses over, but the workhorses do. Ie..Pro Mar, SuperPaint, A-100, and Woodscapes to name a few. This is true in many of the brands owned by SW. They're relabeled SW products. Its much easier to make a new label and wrap a can as its coming down the assembly line than say develop a new/different product for a "brand" that you own. Think about it. Are they really going to put money into R&D, manufacturing, raw material purchasing, etc etc to make a slightly different product than one that they already have? Not hardly. Its all about keeping costs down.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

NCPaint1 said:


> Accolade is exclusive to P&L, Duration is Exclusive to SW. Not every product directly crosses over, but the workhorses do. Ie..Pro Mar, SuperPaint, A-100, and Woodscapes to name a few. This is true in many of the brands owned by SW. They're relabeled SW products. Its much easier to make a new label and wrap a can as its coming down the assembly line than say develop a new/different product for a "brand" that you own. Think about it. Are they really going to put money into R&D, manufacturing, raw material purchasing, etc etc to make a slightly different product than one that they already have? Not hardly. Its all about keeping costs down.


 Sorta like Walmart paints.All the same paint factory just different labels.:blink:


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

mudbone said:


> Sorta like Walmart paints.All the same paint factory just different labels.:blink:


Does Walmart sell Dutch Boy? I can't remember. If so then yes I believe Dutch Boy is a SW product....maybe ICI, can't remember, too lazy to check


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

They are not the same. Look at the ingredients. Plus the sheens are different. P&l egg is close to sw low sheen. 200 and gold are different. Gold pulls much cleaner. What I mean by that is while pulling the tape away from base n case after painting, gold has a clean sharp line even when paint is still wet. 200 needs to be dry before pulling tape or else lines are jagged. Just saying they are not the same. Different manufacturing plants. Different ingredients.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Zoomer said:


> They are not the same. Look at the ingredients. Plus the sheens are different. P&l egg is close to sw low sheen. 200 and gold are different. Gold pulls much cleaner. What I mean by that is while pulling the tape away from base n case after painting, gold has a clean sharp line even when paint is still wet. 200 needs to be dry before pulling tape or else lines are jagged. Just saying they are not the same. Different manufacturing plants. Different ingredients.


I have to agree. It's been my experience that the sheen of Gold is different than promar. 

I find it easier to use and has better hide.

The price is better too, for when the project calls to be budget conscious.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

TJ Paint said:


> I have to agree. It's been my experience that the sheen of Gold is different than promar.
> 
> I find it easier to use and has better hide.
> 
> The price is better too, for when the project calls to be budget conscious.


Agreed. Also red seal or accolade is better for our high end projects.


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## y.painting (Jul 19, 2009)

Mercedes owns Chrysler. That doesn't mean that both manufacture the same cars, although some components are shared once in a while.

Just because SW bought out a holding stake in P&L in 1995 (and also in Dutch Boy, Duron, MAB, etc) doesn't mean that P&Ls factories were shuttered or that all production switched to SW products. It's still a separate company with majority stake ownership by SW.


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## Builtmany (Dec 5, 2009)

y.painting said:


> Mercedes owns Chrysler.



Not anymore MB dumped the company before it was in financial trouble.

On the other hand I do see your point that PL is different than SW in that aspect.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Builtmany said:


> Not anymore MB dumped the company before it was in financial trouble.
> 
> On the other hand I do see your point that PL is different than SW in that aspect.


Yea the French bought it and made it profitable. :blink:


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Zoomer said:


> Agreed. Also red seal or accolade is better for our high end projects.


I have had good results with Accolade on interior trim too. It's solid.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

TJ Paint said:


> I have had good results with Accolade on interior trim too. It's solid.[/Q WhEN dRY.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

TJ Paint said:


> I have had good results with Accolade on interior trim too. It's solid.


Man I'm gonna have try that. Semi or gloss?


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Zoomer said:


> Man I'm gonna have try that. Semi or gloss?


Satin


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Big thanks!


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## pldealer (Feb 2, 2013)

*They are different*

Not sure where some people are getting their info but P&L and SW products are NOT the same. I used to sell privately labeled Promar 200 and 400 and now sell Pratt and Lambert (mostly Gold, Silver and IM but some Accolade and Redseal Zero also). We have done extensive roll outs and have gotten feedback from our customers who used both paints and there is simply no question that they are different products. They have even come out with several new products in the last 12-18 months that are exclusive to P&L so they are doing their own R&D. Are SW and Duron interchangeable at this point? Yes. SW and P&L? nope.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

The only similarity I saw between SW and P&L was their ceiling paints. The solid deck stain is just a rip-off from P&L's formula.


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## Northwest_painter (Jan 27, 2012)

Zoomer said:


> Every time we use p&l the job goes well. Across the board, accolade,red seal, gold and silver consistently are better than sw or ben. What do you guys think?


Please read the back of the can and you will see a globe with red paint being poured on it. Pratt & Lambert is owned by Sherwin williams just thought you should know who makes Pratt&lambert since your bad mouthing the company that makes it.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

pldealer said:


> Not sure where some people are getting their info


With all due respect, if a painttalk member says it, it is likely true !

:jester:


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

vermontpainter said:


> With all due respect, if a painttalk member says it, it is likely true !
> 
> :jester:


It's a quantum reality here at PT. Both yes and no are true here, and at the same time!


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

Northwest_painter said:


> Please read the back of the can and you will see a globe with red paint being poured on it. Pratt & Lambert is owned by Sherwin williams just thought you should know who makes Pratt&lambert since your bad mouthing the company that makes it.


It's true that S.W. does own P&L, but they no more make P&L paint than Berkshire hathaway makes Benjamin moore paint. Maybe this has changed recently, but for years it was understood that factories remained separate and P&L retained their own labs and factories and continued on. I am sure there has been top level decisions, like switch over to a plastic pour container, limit the quality of resins to make the paint $10 cheaper. But on the whole things are separate.


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## Stonehampaintdept (Jan 10, 2013)

Wiki knows all. All hail Wiki. :notworthy:

Sherwin-Williams is the parent company of other brands such as Duron, M.A.B. Paints, Minwax, Krylon, Mautz Paint Co., Purdy, Bestt Liebco, Thompson's WaterSeal, H&C, Pratt & Lambert, Martin Senour, Dutch Boy, Easy Living, Weatherbeater, and on August 28, 2007 Sherwin Williams purchased Columbia Paint & Coatings. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherwin-Williams


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Northwest_painter said:


> Please read the back of the can and you will see a globe with red paint being poured on it. Pratt & Lambert is owned by Sherwin williams just thought you should know who makes Pratt&lambert since your bad mouthing the company that makes it.


No they are not the same. Specs are different, smells are different. Across the board different. Just thought YOU should know.


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## paintpimp (Jun 29, 2007)

Some used to be the same. Suprime and the old preprite 200 were the same. There are sure fire ways of determining if they are the same.


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## Northwest_painter (Jan 27, 2012)

plainpainter said:


> It's true that S.W. does own P&L, but they no more make P&L paint than Berkshire hathaway makes Benjamin moore paint. Maybe this has changed recently, but for years it was understood that factories remained separate and P&L retained their own labs and factories and continued on. I am sure there has been top level decisions, like switch over to a plastic pour container, limit the quality of resins to make the paint $10 cheaper. But on the whole things are separate.


just to let you know in Greensboro North Carolina is the SW plant that makes all of the paint for pratt and lambert dutch boy etc. it is also the R&D for the other consumer specilty paints. so yes SW makes owns and does the r&d the rights everyting on Pratt and lambert. there is no pratt and lambert factory


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Northwest_painter said:


> just to let you know in Greensboro North Carolina is the SW plant that makes all of the paint for pratt and lambert dutch boy etc. it is also the R&D for the other consumer specilty paints. so yes SW makes owns and does the r&d the rights everyting on Pratt and lambert. there is no pratt and lambert factory


Doubting your statement.


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

NCPaint1 said:


> And its the same products with different labels. P&L gold =PM 200....P&L Silver = PM 400......P&L Bronze = P&L 700
> 
> P&L Red Seal = SuperPaint


So wrong!! I have personally been to the Breen Center in Cleveland where over 300 chemists work on paint everyday. P&L is its own entity. They have their own chemists, their own sales teams, marketers, management, etc. They share information back and forth between operating units, naturally, but completely different formulas in the cans. They have to have different performing products than their own (SW) to sell to the distributors.


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

Northwest_painter said:


> just to let you know in Greensboro North Carolina is the SW plant that makes all of the paint for pratt and lambert dutch boy etc. it is also the R&D for the other consumer specilty paints. so yes SW makes owns and does the r&d the rights everyting on Pratt and lambert. there is no pratt and lambert factory


You are correct, there is no one P&L factory. Any plant that SW owns can make any product at any given time if needed. Most of the main plants make the usual national lines and division lines for their geographic area. As long as the factory has the correct ingredients they are all capable of producing any product, its just a formula. The "slurry" or main binder is generally specific to that plant and to the products that is produces. If the plant in NC, only makes the P&L "slurry", then it will be the main P&L plant and product will then ship to the distribution centers. If P&L has any "green" designation, it will be produced at many more plants depending on the geographic area needed to ship into.


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## Seattlepainting (Jun 8, 2010)

Pratt and Lambert's cellutone is better than Satin Impervo. As we all know Satin Impervo is not what it used to be; but Cellu-tone has remained a true traditional oil. This is unsubstantiated, but P&L pays a fine for higher VOC count.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

I love it, P&L re-introduced a semigloss oil trim in their gold line, they took it away for a while - but it's back, and it's still a real oil product. Ben Moore oil was always second fiddle to any pratt oil paint.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Seattlepainting said:


> Pratt and Lambert's cellutone is better than Satin Impervo. As we all know Satin Impervo is not what it used to be; but Cellu-tone has remained a true traditional oil. This is unsubstantiated, but P&L pays a fine for higher VOC count.


great to know. thanks.


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## A+HomeWork (Dec 10, 2010)

Just curious, are any of you going to change your go-to products to P&L?


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

A+HomeWork said:


> Just curious, are any of you going to change your go-to products to P&L?


I would if it were readily available where I'm at.

It's better than most SW offerings. Yeah, I know SW owns them, I don't give a crap.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

If there were more stores it would be our exclusive.


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## GrantsPainting (Feb 4, 2013)

*Paint Manufacturers*

The best universal way to compare paint is the MPI number. Most big manufacturers products are graded by MPI numbers on different ways. 

We always go with PPG. Their products are better by apple to apple in our opinion.

Besides that... All paint manufacturers make a good paint. SW will try to jerk you around and make you use what they make the most money on. PPG will give you the right product AND share any knowledge that you might need to deliver the best job.


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## A+HomeWork (Dec 10, 2010)

GrantsPainting said:


> The best universal way to compare paint is the MPI number. Most big manufacturers products are graded by MPI numbers on different ways.
> 
> We always go with PPG. Their products are better by apple to apple in our opinion.
> 
> Besides that... All paint manufacturers make a good paint. SW will try to jerk you around and make you use what they make the most money on. PPG will give you the right product AND share any knowledge that you might need to deliver the best job.


I really like SW paint lines. I have had wonderful results since I began using them in the late 90's. 
BUT, what I don't like is how they "sleep around" with different affiliates and change their products as a result, such as hyde tools, modern masters, zinsser, etc, which they no longer sell.
They changed their deglosser to krudkutter brand, and so on.

I actually buy lots of rustoleum products at Lowe's now.


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## Builtmany (Dec 5, 2009)

A+HomeWork said:


> Just curious, are any of you going to change your go-to products to P&L?


Not many stores here sell it. It's only really sold at one place and the highest they go is Red Seal. 

Sad but my area is BM & SW all day long.


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> And its the same products with different labels. P&L gold =PM 200....P&L Silver = PM 400......P&L Bronze = P&L 700
> 
> P&L Red Seal = SuperPaint


I got word a couple days ago from a BM store that P&L Pro Hide Gold is the same formula as Cashmere. And then was told that P&L was owned by SW (go figure...) .... So, I tried the PHG and it is the same as Cashmere and half the price!.... Love the stuff!


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> I got word a couple days ago from a BM store that P&L Pro Hide Gold is the same formula as Cashmere. And then was told that P&L was owned by SW (go figure...) .... So, I tried the PHG and it is the same as Cashmere and half the price!.... Love the stuff!


the gold line is awesome


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## Northwest_painter (Jan 27, 2012)

Zoomer said:


> Every time we use p&l the job goes well. Across the board, accolade,red seal, gold and silver consistently are better than sw or ben. What do you guys think?


It is funny because Pratt & lambert is made by SW I don't see that much of a difference in the paint.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

P&L always better than sw.


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

Everyone makes good paint, or good enough for real professionals to get nice results.
So much of the paint job is not about the paint.
It is about the prep, the clean up, the painters demeanour,
the smoke breaks, the image, the customer experience, etc, etc.
There is so many things to sell to the customer on before the job is awarded.
If their perception is that Benjamin Moore is good paint, great!
I will sell my painting company to them, not a paint company.
I don't really care that much about S. W. (or most manufacturers)
and they would not send you a nice cheque or a thank you for pushing P&L.

What I am saying is...

..who cares


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## O'Brien (Feb 24, 2011)

George, your inbox is full. Nice to meet you the other week.


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## O'Brien (Feb 24, 2011)

Also, I spread some Accolade Semi-Gloss this week in a deep red. No complaints.


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

O'Brien said:


> George, your inbox is full. Nice to meet you the other week.


Nice to meet you Matt, emptied some of it.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

George Z said:


> Everyone makes good paint, or good enough for real professionals to get nice results.
> So much of the paint job is not about the paint.
> It is about the prep, the clean up, the painters demeanour,
> the smoke breaks, the image, the customer experience, etc, etc.
> ...



B I N G O and Bingo was his name. With some obvious exceptions, the line of paint is more important than the mfr. Most are pretty consistent with each other line for line. With some exceptions.


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## old painter 2 (Dec 31, 2021)

pldealer said:


> *They are different*
> 
> Not sure where some people are getting their info but P&L and SW products are NOT the same. I used to sell privately labeled Promar 200 and 400 and now sell Pratt and Lambert (mostly Gold, Silver and IM but some Accolade and Redseal Zero also). We have done extensive roll outs and have gotten feedback from our customers who used both paints and there is simply no question that they are different products. They have even come out with several new products in the last 12-18 months that are exclusive to P&L so they are doing their own R&D. Are SW and Duron interchangeable at this point? Yes. SW and P&L? nope.


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## old painter 2 (Dec 31, 2021)

i know this late posting but i searching for P&L Red Seal 0000Z3100-16 i tend to agree with you pldealer. in my search it seems SW bought out P&L,, in short , as company do they eliminate competition also being on east coast this P&L is not sold so its making hard to find supply if you can give me a lead on were still sold national ,appreciate it thanks for you knowledge base hope this reply finds you well


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