# EcoSpec vs SuperSpec Eggshell



## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

How do the two compare? I have only used the SuperSpec eggshell and did not care for it. Not washable and does not touch up well. Also, it sounds like the new EcoSpec (if it is not just a relabel of the old) that will be tinted with Gennex colorants is hitting the shelves here, so info on that version would also be appreciated.


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## BMDealer (Jun 2, 2008)

The new Waterbourne Eco-Spec is a low odor, zero voc, acrylic latex. Offers the the same type Aura hide and touch up capabilities. Also says it has the washibility of a semi-gloss. We have not brought the product in nor have we had anybody asking for it. 

On the dealer side there a so many new programs that BM has its tough to figure out where to invest. Between Aura both Int/Ext, WB Ceiling Paint, WB Eco-Spec, Natura, Aura Bath and Spa, and BEN, which is a entry level Aura product. Big bucks to get involved.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I can definitely understand where you are coming from. On the other hand, I am really glad to see BM taking the lead in product development right now. I just hope that BM does a good job of educating retailers and contractors about the differences between all the product lines.

For example, with Natura, why use Regal? Is it basically Regal resins tinted with Gennex or something completely different? I know the tint does not bond with the resin like it does with Aura (at least that is the rumor).

Where does BEN fall compared to EcoSpec and SuperSpec (I am assuming halfway between Natura and the Spec lines)


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## BMDealer (Jun 2, 2008)

Natura should be along the lines of Mythic paints....non toxic, no voc. BEN I would assume should fall in the Regal price category but give you the benefits of the waterbourne technology, hide, durability, low voc. Super-Spec will and should always price out less then any of the waterbourne lines. In New England both BEN and Natura will be available in March of 09..some areas already have the product.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I had heard that Ben was going to be at a price point to compete against Behr and other "premium" Big Box paints and Natura was going to be close to Regal in price. Who knows.


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## Craig76 (Dec 12, 2008)

Something to keep in mind about Natura vs. Regal.
Natura does not use the same resins as Regal but rather one more similar to Aura. Which, like Aura, will give you faster recoat times (within an hour), good washability and touch-up. Natura is the product to use when your client is asking for a virtually odorless, environmentally friendly, premium “green” product. Odor-causing substances have been eliminated and replaced with environmentally gentler ingredients, making this the ideal product for households with children, pets, or those who are sensitive to odors.

Ben offers all of the performance qualities you would expect of a Benjamin Moore interior paint, but is made for consumers looking to complete their project within a specified budget. It goes on easily, hides well, and comes in all Benjamin Moore colors. Ben is for the budget-minded client that wants Benjamin Moore quality. Ben allows you to provide your clients with a more consumer oriented product.

Eco Spec®WB is a new version of Ecospec that has been optimized for use with waterborne Gennex colorants. Eco Spec®WB delivers superior performance with improved hide, and even less odor than the previous version. The improvement to the line has added additional tint bases that allow an unlimited color selection and with the waterborne colorant, zero VOC. Eco Spec®WB paint is ideal for: health care facilities, hospitals, nursing homes, medical clinics, laboratories, assisted living facilities, educational facilities such as Schools, universities, dormitories, cafeterias, libraries etc. 

The main difference between Eco Spec®WB and Super Spec is the colorant platform and VOC level. Super Spec is a premium commercial product however does not address the shift to a greener industry. Ideally, contractors will select between the two lines based on the job and what benefits are needed i.e. odor, turn around time, LEED etc. Both products are designed for the professional painter and would fall into the premium commercial tier.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

why have Natura and WB Ecospec I thought they would eliminate ESpec since Natura was coming out seems like over kill all of a sudden with so many lines...


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Natura price point I think is near Regal, then Ben, the ecospec, superspec. For new construction, it will be interesting to see how Ben performs, I could see it filling a niche there since new construction pricing does not match the increases in material costs lately.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

DeanV said:


> Natura price point I think is near Regal, then Ben, the ecospec, superspec. For new construction, it will be interesting to see how Ben performs, I could see it filling a niche there since new construction pricing does not match the increases in material costs lately.


I would think WB ecospec won't be cheaper than Ben... For new construction why not use Superhide or Superspec..

I think Ben is going to be marketed to DIY'ers trying to get the HO out fo the big box and into independent paint stores...


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Sounds like that is the main market for Ben. For my new work, superhide and superspec would not cut it qualitywise.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

DeanV said:


> Sounds like that is the main market for Ben. For my new work, superhide and superspec would not cut it qualitywise.


Well I hope your making money  most new construction around here SS would be an upgrade.... most is SW CHB or something along those lines...


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Sometimes CHB goes on ceilings here. Probably not making what some people are, but my new work gets Grahams or BM Regal, sometimes Aura (every once in a while I will have a spec that gets the SuperSpec treatment, but rarely).


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

DeanV said:


> Sometimes CHB goes on ceilings here. Probably not making what some people are, but my new work gets Grahams or BM Regal, sometimes Aura (every once in a while I will have a spec that gets the SuperSpec treatment, but rarely).


cool nice to see a painter using decent paint on NC... Most of are re paints are first time paints since the house was built and I see a lot fo crap on the walls... like they sprayed it with chalk...


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I hate that when I get a repaint and fail to pickup on the $5/gallon paint first. Blows the material portion of the bid right out of the water.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

DeanV said:


> I hate that when I get a repaint and fail to pickup on the $5/gallon paint first. Blows the material portion of the bid right out of the water.


yeah we did one over the summer and we wanted to use Aura and I did, 22 gallons and I didn't figure for it... :blink:


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## Joewho (Apr 17, 2007)

What's that sucking noise?

CHB is notorious, sucks the profit right out of the job.


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## FL.BM.DEALER (Apr 2, 2009)

Eco-Spec WB & Natura are actually quite different. The Eco-Spec is along the lines of a NO VOC super Spec quality using GENNEX Colorants, Where are the Natura is along the line of Aura quality but not quite as good. 

The Eco-Spec WB is being sold to a lot of ALF's and hospitals, doctors offices ie. The natura is more on the HO side of things, taking more abuse than its lower line the Eco-Spec WB.

We are finding the contractors doing the ALF, hospitals etc. are looking for a cheap but good product and the homeowner is looking for the most durable no-matter the cost!


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

Use the Eco for first coat, finish with Aura over the sucky flats. More distance, less cost. 
Just an idea


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## ParagonVA (Feb 3, 2009)

FYI the EcoSpec flat should be labeled as a matte instead. It dries to a slight sheen similar to Regal Matte, Duron Signature Velvet, and Valspar Signature Matte. I would never use that on any ceilings/walls where you are trying to conceal impefections. The EcoSpec _is_ virtually odor-free and you can come home and not worry about your clothes smelling all sour and nasty. I used it in an entire house where the customer was pregnant, she was so happy. I was pretty impressed with it, just not the cost, (even though the cust. paid extra), or how even the sheen dried down. But, I have no complaints about its hiding capabilites, and it cleans up nice. I've been using the EcoSpec for years, and it's good to see that it can mixed in all bases now.

BM has far too many lines of paint IMO...they say you can apply Aura any finish, anywhere, yet they came out with Bath and Spa...why? They also have the Kitchen and Bath paint with mildew-proof additives and _this_, and _that_...jeez!

I've always loved the SuperSpec eggshell for its cost and true eggshell finish. I always seem to get a super even finish with that stuff. I hope they don't do away with it like they did the Dulamel Eggshell oil-base.

-jt


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

They have too many lines cause IMO they will eventually phase out lines that use glycol tints.. and lets not talk about too many lines, SW has so many lines i can't keep up with them.


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## ParagonVA (Feb 3, 2009)

MAK-Deco said:


> They have too many lines cause IMO they will eventually phase out lines that use glycol tints.. and lets not talk about too many lines, SW has so many lines i can't keep up with them.


true, true.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Craig76 said:


> Something to keep in mind about Natura vs. Regal.
> Natura does not use the same resins as Regal but rather one more similar to Aura. Which, like Aura, will give you faster recoat times (within an hour), good washability and touch-up. Natura is the product to use when your client is asking for a virtually odorless, environmentally friendly, premium “green” product. Odor-causing substances have been eliminated and replaced with environmentally gentler ingredients, making this the ideal product for households with children, pets, or those who are sensitive to odors.
> 
> Ben offers all of the performance qualities you would expect of a Benjamin Moore interior paint, but is made for consumers looking to complete their project within a specified budget. It goes on easily, hides well, and comes in all Benjamin Moore colors. Ben is for the budget-minded client that wants Benjamin Moore quality. Ben allows you to provide your clients with a more consumer oriented product.
> ...


Welcome to painttalk. Thanks for the accurate information. Product line criticism is one of the things we do best, and sometimes blatant misinformation, misunderstanding and misperception are common. Thanks for the factual product information. I look forward to more posts. BTW, Natura rocks.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> Welcome to painttalk. Thanks for the accurate information. Product line criticism is one of the things we do best, and sometimes blatant misinformation, misunderstanding and misperception are common. Thanks for the factual product information. I look forward to more posts. BTW, Natura rocks.


Why VP? I was not impress so I would like to know what you thought was good? It was one of the worst things I saw when it came to flashing patches, spot prime, not prime, two coats, etc.. always could see them. Aura one coat and patches gone.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

MAK-Deco said:


> Why VP? I was not impress so I would like to know what you thought was good? It was one of the worst things I saw when it came to flashing patches, spot prime, not prime, two coats, etc.. always could see them. Aura one coat and patches gone.


We had a resi repaint in which two rooms were previously painted with a pale yellow from ppg. HO wanted to repaint with the same color. I started with Regal and it was a disaster for coverage. (And Regal was my go to for a lot of years). We had to do two full coats plus a third cut in some areas to get it solid. Switched to Natura on the second room and homerun. Much better coverage, no odor, faster recoat, etc. Better can of paint. We started dabbling with Natura last Nov and have run it in alot of colors and finishes. We have used it to spot prime in between coat patches with success. Havent used it as much as Aura, which is still the standard in my book, but I am very optimistic about it. BM is very proactive about tweaking and fine tuning their premium lines. It will be a great line. Just my opinion.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> We had a resi repaint in which two rooms were previously painted with a pale yellow from ppg. HO wanted to repaint with the same color. I started with Regal and it was a disaster for coverage. (And Regal was my go to for a lot of years). We had to do two full coats plus a third cut in some areas to get it solid. Switched to Natura on the second room and homerun. Much better coverage, no odor, faster recoat, etc. Better can of paint. We started dabbling with Natura last Nov and have run it in alot of colors and finishes. We have used it to spot prime in between coat patches with success. Havent used it as much as Aura, which is still the standard in my book, but I am very optimistic about it. BM is very proactive about tweaking and fine tuning their premium lines. It will be a great line. Just my opinion.


I agree its better then Regal, another thing I was dissapointed with is price point, only 6$ cheaper than Aura. why not use Aura? Unless a job is spec'd zero voc which usualy doesn't happen.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

MAK-Deco said:


> I agree its better then Regal, another thing I was dissapointed with is price point, only 6$ cheaper than Aura. why not use Aura? Unless a job is spec'd zero voc which usualy doesn't happen.


Paint is like a marriage. Only you are allowed more than one. I love Aura, but am open to loving another. Plus, the label is a little warmer and fuzzier than Aura. 

Seriously, though, why wouldnt it be a good option to be able to offer our customers a paint that performs close to Aura, at 0 voc and a few bucks cheaper?

We are using Natura on a project we just started. A 3k sf nc that is being documented for LEED certification. Homeowners have a baby. Natura, no question. I'll get some photos of our first coats on walls next week. Its Aura like coverage.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I was hoping Natura would be closer to Regal, but it is not available here yet anyway.

I hope EcoSpecWB is vastly superior to SuperSpec, since SuperSpec is an awful paint for the money.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> Paint is like a marriage. Only you are allowed more than one. I love Aura, but am open to loving another. Plus, the label is a little warmer and fuzzier than Aura.
> 
> Seriously, though, why wouldnt it be a good option to be able to offer our customers a paint that performs close to Aura, at 0 voc and a few bucks cheaper?
> 
> We are using Natura on a project we just started. A 3k sf nc that is being documented for LEED certification. Homeowners have a baby. Natura, no question. I'll get some photos of our first coats on walls next week. Its Aura like coverage.



I certainly agree about the zero voc option but to me its not worth the few bucks less to worry about coverage. 

Its funny you say a few bucks cheaper but you would not even think of entertaining using Ben which I feel is a great paint for its price point.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

MAK, if you have muralo and Graham available in your area, try the endure line. The Endura ceramic satin sprays really nice. The wall paint seems pretty good too. Should be priced similar to Ben. I have not been able to buy Ben yet to try it, I wish it had a matte, not just flat and eggshell.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

DeanV said:


> MAK, if you have muralo and Graham available in your area, try the endure line. The Endura ceramic satin sprays really nice. The wall paint seems pretty good too. Should be priced similar to Ben. I have not been able to buy Ben yet to try it, I wish it had a matte, not just flat and eggshell.


I agree i wish it had a Matte also, that's a issue with Natura too no Matte.

My BM dealer brought in that Muralo line I have not tried tho.


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

DeanV said:


> I was hoping Natura would be closer to Regal, but it is not available here yet anyway.
> 
> I hope EcoSpecWB is vastly superior to SuperSpec, since SuperSpec is an awful paint for the money.


I hear you complain about SS , and for the money I think SS egg is one of the best, easy to use, touches up as well as any comparable egg, the sheen is low like most mattes. Whats not to like at ~ $20/gal?


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

BrushJockey said:


> I hear you complain about SS , and for the money I think SS egg is one of the best, easy to use, touches up as well as any comparable egg, the sheen is low like most mattes. Whats not to like at ~ $20/gal?



Personally I think SS eggshell is junk... flashes, no coverage especially when it comes to deep bases.. Mucus like in its brushing... Ben is way better then SS and not much more price point wise.


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

It is interesting we get such different results with the same material. I always step on SS a bit, and a little XIM extender (I use in just about everything) and it cuts smooth. Deep colors I do go to aura, but sometimes I first coat under aura with SS, enough of a tipping point that Aura gets there easy. 
I have not used Ben or Natura yet- will soon.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

MAK-Deco said:


> I certainly agree about the zero voc option but to me its not worth the few bucks less to worry about coverage.
> 
> Its funny you say a few bucks cheaper but you would not even think of entertaining using Ben which I feel is a great paint for its price point.


Are you implying that I am a paint snob?

I havent tried Ben. Subconsciously, anything that is intended primarily for homeowner consumption reads in my brain from the same file as Behr, Wagner power roller, Jack Ralph, taped lines, etc. 

If I was seriously concerned about getting material costs down as far as possible I would definitely check it out. One thing I have learned from one of my mentors is that every can of paint is a can of tradeoffs. I try not to stray far from the ultra premiums for labor reasons, which are the costs that I am more focused on.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

BrushJockey said:


> It is interesting we get such different results with the same material. I always step on SS a bit, and a little XIM extender (I use in just about everything) and it cuts smooth. Deep colors I do go to aura, but sometimes I first coat under aura with SS, enough of a tipping point that Aura gets there easy.
> I have not used Ben or Natura yet- will soon.


Wow that seems like more work to use SS under Aura, the extra money for Aura can't be more then have to set up a whole separate paint and then clean it up etc.. 

I hear ya extender would make SS fine, I don't like using additives for everyday painting projects.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

When I tried off the shelf white superspec eggshell, it touched up horribly, washed horribly, applied alright, but nothing to write home about. If it retailed for 20 and we got it for 12, maybe I would find a place for it if I did cheap apartment or something.


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

One room, true. But if I can quick 1st coat a bunch of stuff with SS , Toss the cover in a pail ( I always clean up at home, no biggie) and take off with the finish. Just one of many ways, do the same thing if I need an actual prime coat, sometimes blend primer and paint for a 'tweener. Use up old paint that way also. 
And XIM xtender to me isn't for open time as much as it just makes brushing effortless- pure grease for the cut.


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## tsunamicontract (May 3, 2008)

To me, SS just isnt worth it at $20 something a gallon when I can get P&L Prohide Gold for a lot less a gallon. That satisfies my apartment and new construction needs and it is decent paint. Where does Ben come in price range wise? I certainly will try it out if. Natura sounds intriguing for my customer base. Right now I mostly use Aura on my int. repaints.


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## ParagonVA (Feb 3, 2009)

MAK-Deco said:


> Personally I think SS eggshell is junk... flashes, no coverage especially when it comes to deep bases.. Mucus like in its brushing... Ben is way better then SS and not much more price point wise.


I can definitely see that- it is hard to brush. Now that I think of it, it is like snot!!


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## FL.BM.DEALER (Apr 2, 2009)

The Ben and the Natura's Flat is actually a "matte" finish. The terminology of "Matte" has been confusing the HO's for years since the Regal Matte was released. Both the BEN & Natura are both washable to the extend of Regal matte with less color rub-off. I too agree there are way too many choices in BM now adays, but as stated in the forum by MAK-Deco, BM is eventually planning on doing away with some of the Glycol-Ethyr Based products. The new VOC & HAP regulations are being released in a few months, wich however, have been tweaked to the worst we have seen in our industry yet! The Lacquer Business is going to suffer if the EPA decides on the 160/200 rule wich would mean the re-chemisting of all products in paint\lacquer\stain Industry. The Gov is talking about keeping the current formulations available but in order to purchase them the retailer MAY NOT display the product on the shelf and the end user must hold a licsense(here comes big brother again...). 

As a BM retailer for over 14yrs now i am sickened by the amount of new products wich have released in the past 18 months, and guess what, Another NEW LINE is being released soon, "SUPER SPEC GREEN" This is still a glycol based paint and tints but claims of lower VOC's and faster dry time at the cost of a couple dollars more per gallon than Super Spec, get ready for some very BIG changes in our industry in the next couple of years.


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## ParagonVA (Feb 3, 2009)

wow- a lot of info, thanks man. I can't believe another "green" line, man! It will certainly be ideal to have things simplified some day with less products, but will this _ever_ occur?? It always seems like a good thing will always be changed or tweaked in some way, and not just with paint. I guess all types of manufacturers are forced to keep their products new to pique the interests of consumers everywhere. It's a vicious cycle for those of us who get attached to certain products


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

tsunamicontract said:


> To me, SS just isnt worth it at $20 something a gallon when I can get P&L Prohide Gold for a lot less a gallon. That satisfies my apartment and new construction needs and it is decent paint. Where does Ben come in price range wise? I certainly will try it out if. Natura sounds intriguing for my customer base. Right now I mostly use Aura on my int. repaints.


P&L gold is a nice contractor paint for the price.

Ben price wise is in the 23$ range Flat is one price and egg and semi are the same.


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## tsunamicontract (May 3, 2008)

MAK-Deco said:


> P&L gold is a nice contractor paint for the price.
> 
> Ben price wise is in the 23$ range Flat is one price and egg and semi are the same.


Gold compares to SS and Promar 200 correct?
Still can't see me being able to use it for nc and appt painting at $10 a gallon more than I pay for gold.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

tsunamicontract said:


> Gold compares to SS and Promar 200 correct?
> Still can't see me being able to use it for nc and appt painting at $10 a gallon more than I pay for gold.


yeah I would think it compares to those to lines. I certainly like it better than SS but can't compare it to PM200 as I have never used it.


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## FL.BM.DEALER (Apr 2, 2009)

Yes, this will be simplied in the oncomming years, with BM at least, but you will find that our industry is heading in the "eco-friendly" direction, this unfortunately will be a big change for all of us that are used to the same vehicle type products that have been on the market for years. 

MAK- Don't count on BEN being that low for long. It was a mix up on BM Marketing dept that the price is that low. As we speak BEN is being released in the NE with a minimun $26.99 on the Flat and $29.99 for the eggshell and Semi. It is only a matter of time before they correct this nation-wide. As a retailer when we saw the MSP for BEN we thought they were nuts and adapted our own TRUE profit margin on this product, now, BM is going to be right in there where we already are. They cut our profits out as retailers almost in half by introducing the prices you are paying currently.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

FL.BM.DEALER

Are you listing minimum retail or contractor pricing on post 45? I think MAK is talking contractor price.


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## FL.BM.DEALER (Apr 2, 2009)

Im talking contractor, that is what it is going to be switched to soon according to me BM Rep.


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## FL.BM.DEALER (Apr 2, 2009)

the term MSP is minimum selling price, this generally is the contractor's price. BM basterdised our profits with this mishap, in essence we would be selling the same amount of paint for half of the profit..... so why sell it? They screwed it up pretty bad!


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