# Would you paint this house?



## wncpainter (Aug 7, 2010)

I counted five layers and you can guess what the bottom three are made out of. Nice old lady who said the house was looking good until this winter when the paint started to peel. I live almost next door and pass by everyday and she finally asked me If i could give her a number to paint it. the upside is the communte is close, the downside,,, everything else..




























If I can get her to replace the shutters, maybe but it has still got to be a eye-popping number...


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## kingsebi (Jan 27, 2009)

Could be a really nice job. Just be really careful. Almost all paint made before 1978 has lead in it. So If your out there scraping lead paint and the wrong person catches wind, you could be in serious trouble if you are not EPA lead certified. The fine is $32,000 per day!

You may be certified. If so great. If not, be careful.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Tough situation with it being a neighbor. Personally, I wouldnt touch it.


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## wncpainter (Aug 7, 2010)

yes certified, but not worth the trouble IMO


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## painterman (Jun 2, 2007)

by the color of the bare wood it would seem that it has been peeling for a long time.Carbide scrapers...lots of XIM peel bond ....spray away


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

painterman said:


> by the color of the bare wood it would seem that it has been peeling for a long time.Carbide scrapers...lots of XIM peel bond ....spray away


I disagree. That would be a temporary fix. Peel bond has its place, but not on this one. I use a lot of peel bond myself, but it would only be a bandaid in this case. The previous coatings are failing. It needs to be stripped, sanded to remove any dead wood fibers, and primed.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Might as well reside the thing. Pointless to strip all that off. Boards are probably cracked, wood dried out, etc.

The only practical thing would be to band aid it, or reside it.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

Why wouldn't you paint that house?


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Oden said:


> Why wouldn't you paint that house?


Thats just me. The older homes arent the market I target. Too much prep, too many headaches and too much liability. I am RRP certified and tried a couple, but its not for me. I avoid the older homes these days. My average exterior is 10-15 years old with HardiPlank siding, and lately I am considering going to only doing interiors.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Woodland said:


> Thats just me. The older homes arent the market I target. Too much prep, too many headaches and too much liability. I am RRP certified and tried a couple, but its not for me. I avoid the older homes these days. My average exterior is 10-15 years old with HardiPlank siding, and lately I am considering going to only doing interiors.


dito, I would have to charge 3-5 times more than the average exterior home.


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

Yes, I'd do it.

I'm Canadian.

Everything has a price.

Neighbours = more detail in contract. Keep your price 'as is'...if something happens look at your signed contract not remembering words and handshakes.



.


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

I would refer her to my friend who's in the Vinyl Siding business.....


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

I would do it if the numbers add up.


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

Workaholic said:


> I would do it if the numbers add up.


Me too.

I'd warn her upfront about the potential cost (making sure she's sitting down) before proceeding with all the number-work.


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## wncpainter (Aug 7, 2010)

great freedback,, I never thought I would promote Vinyl siding but this one may be the exemption. I did a big lead strip job last year and it was a headache, but at least the siding was in better shape. This place could look great with a nice face lift. If I flood it with peel-stop after the worst of the failing paint is scraped off and double coat would it stand up?? I will be thinking about this one for a few days...


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Every job has it's price. I would do it, just make sure you charge enough. It will help make sitting through your lead training worth while.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

"Bring that dynamite and a crane, 

blow it up, start all over again."


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

wncpainter said:


> great freedback,, I never thought I would promote Vinyl siding but this one may be the exemption. I did a big lead strip job last year and it was a headache, but at least the siding was in better shape. This place could look great with a nice face lift. If I flood it with peel-stop after the worst of the failing paint is scraped off and double coat would it stand up?? I will be thinking about this one for a few days...


Im not sure on the price of re-siding with HardiPlank versus vinyl siding, but I think vinyl siding looks cheap.


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## PaintingContractorNJ (May 10, 2012)

Woodland said:


> Thats just me. The older homes arent the market I target. Too much prep, too many headaches and too much liability. I am RRP certified and tried a couple, but its not for me. I avoid the older homes these days. My average exterior is 10-15 years old with HardiPlank siding, and lately I am considering going to only doing interiors.


Agree!!!!!!!!!!!! :notworthy:


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## hotwing7 (Mar 31, 2012)

Well I hope you do do it. For the simple fact that at least you are on here seeking opinions and as she is your neighbour she'll be getting a good job, well done, by someone she trusts who has the integrity to make sure its done right, not some 2 bit Billy no mates, who talks a good game and thats about it.

I can't abide anyone who rips off old people, so on that basis alone i'd do it(I meaning you, not me), so she can rest assured its done properly.


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## pucks101 (Mar 29, 2012)

Woodland said:


> Thats just me. The older homes arent the market I target. Too much prep, too many headaches and too much liability. I am RRP certified and tried a couple, but its not for me. I avoid the older homes these days. My average exterior is 10-15 years old with HardiPlank siding, and lately I am considering going to only doing interiors.


Sounds like a good plan to me... I think a good exterior job is when the HO of an interior repaint job of a vinyl sided house, decides to add on that they want the exterior trim, shutters, and front door repainted also...


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

hotwing7 said:


> Well I hope you do do it. For the simple fact that at least you are on here seeking opinions and as she is your neighbour she'll be getting a good job, well done, by someone she trusts who has the integrity to make sure its done right, not some 2 bit Billy no mates, who talks a good game and thats about it.
> 
> I can't abide anyone who rips off old people, so on that basis alone i'd do it(I meaning you, not me), so she can rest assured its done properly.


are you insinuating that some in this thread would be ripping off the elderly? 

Would integrity be willing to pay for what it would cost for the proper preparation and application? even if that meant replacing the siding itself? 

should you be willing to pay to do the job correctly just because its an elderly neighbor?

I've had neighbors approach me for jobs that I knew could not afford me, that never changed my quote or willingness to do do the job. Hell I couldn't afford my rates.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Many elderly dont have enough money to steal to begin with. 

The ones with money can afford a good job and usually live in a house kept up better. Jme


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## hotwing7 (Mar 31, 2012)

ewingpainting.net said:


> are you insinuating that some in this thread would be ripping off the elderly?
> 
> Would integrity be willing to pay for what it would cost for the proper preparation and application? even if that meant replacing the siding itself?
> 
> ...


Do you wear glasses like the ones in your profile pic or something???? What part of my response insinuated that :no:

I'm insinuating (maybe wrongly in your clouded vision) that people who take the tme to use this forum, actually care about the job they do as they are here to share ideas and learn new things - which dictates a level of pride and care in their work.

And of course i'm not saying he should do it 'just cos she's old'.

We're not in this business to dish out freebies, so even if replacing the siding is a more cost effective option, then it might be the one that the OP chooses to suggest to her. Either way it's going to cost a fair whack, and even if he doesn't decide to do it - the least he could do is give a detailed estimate and explain why she'll need to remove all wads of cash from under the mattress - which gives her both the information and knowledge to make the right decision.

Would you want to see anyone undercut the job by a grand and then bung up 1 coat of Behr and run away into the sunset.

Any customer without the faintest clue of the intricacies should be educated as to the whats whys and wherefores - it's called SELLING, and it's also called HONESTY.

So read properly before you go out dishing stupid comments like that. (Editted insult - by daArch )


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

No need for name calling. Its a simple misunderstanding


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## hotwing7 (Mar 31, 2012)

Woodland said:


> No need for name calling. Its a simple misunderstanding


A misunderstanding that I would think any of you lot are rip off merchants??? Yeah right-y-o.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

I just wanna know if he's gonna paint the house? And if he does, I want to see photos and progress updates :thumbup:


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## hotwing7 (Mar 31, 2012)

Woodland said:


> I just wanna know if he's gonna paint the house? And if he does, I want to see photos and progress updates :thumbup:


And a copy of the loan agreement that the ho had to take out  bless her frail old heart.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

hotwing7 said:


> I'm insinuating (maybe wrongly in your clouded vision) that people who take the tme to use this forum, actually care about the job they do as they are here to share ideas and learn new things - which dictates a level of pride and care in their work.


I'm just on this forum to improve my thanks to posts ratio.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

TJ Paint said:


> I'm just on this forum to improve my thanks to posts ratio.


 Your "thanks" vs "thanked" ratios are really close. Nobody ever thanks me


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

hotwing7 said:


> Well I hope you do do it. For the simple fact that at least you are on here seeking opinions and as she is your neighbour she'll be getting a good job, well done, by someone she trusts who has the integrity to make sure its done right, not some 2 bit Billy no mates, who talks a good game and thats about it.
> 
> I can't abide anyone who rips off old people, so on that basis alone i'd do it(I meaning you, not me), so she can rest assured its done properly.


 
You are assuming all this on the fact he posted here or do you know this guy personally? He could be a 2 bit Billy no mates for all we know( whatever that means):blink:


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## wncpainter (Aug 7, 2010)

a two bit billy?. i've been called alot of things but thats the first I've heard of that. It must be a Canadian thing... Maybe a two bit hack..:whistling2:
Love PT, get good advice and a pissing contest all in one thread. Certainly if i do take it I will be documenting the progress, but seeing as I can't throw five guys with scrapers and moon suits(I'm just a two man operation now) I may strongly suggest she look at new siding. Certainly Hardi board over vinyl and then I could paint it for her. Definetly have to have a serious sit-down, some people don't seem to understand the degree to which their coatings are failling and think all it takes is a simple wash, scrape, sand, and paint. I love doing exteriors, much better money maker for me than inside work,, but this project as got me seeing red...Cheers.... hope not everyone has to work tomorrow......


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

She may balk at the idea of siding, no matter what the cost.

Some people like paint.

I painted an old rusty crappy garden shed a few years ago for an old neighbor. I TOLD him he should just replace it. But he wanted it painted. I made him a deal at $600.

Even my wife said "WTF?"

all I could do was shrug and say "Crazy bastard wanted it painted!"


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Comment from the Mod in me:

IMO, Hotwing in her first post was not "insinuating" anything poorly about anyone on this forum, I took it to infer people here were NOT trying to rip off the elderly and that she was offering opinions for the OP to help the elderly neighbor to NOT be ripped off by any number of the station wagon bandits that give this trade a bad name.

So stop being so overly sensitive, unless of course she struck a guilt nerve. :whistling2:

as you were.


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

I doubt that was the first time Ewing got called a name here.

Don't feel bad, Ewing. I got called an ass and a dick once in the same thread!


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Steve Richards said:


> Don't feel bad, Ewing. I got called an ass and a dick once in the same thread!


I thought that was being complimentary :whistling2:


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

daArch said:


> I thought that was being complimentary :whistling2:


HA

I thought maybe the guy already knew me from someplace else!


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

If I'm a licensed painting contractor with an RRP certification and work was slow, I would absolutely consider painting this house, and here's why; 

1. It's the closes lead I would have, and I could use this job

2. The improvement to this eye sore will not only improve the esthetic value of the neighborhood I live in, but would also add to the appreciation of home values, particularly mine if I owned.

3. She's a nice elderly lady, and helping her will help improve my karmac status.

Unfortunately, the extent of damage to the coating prevents me from offering a fair price that will benefit both parties. Unless, I consider doing it as charity and offer a reduced price that fits her budget. At that point, I would have to explain to her the real costs associated with proper prep time, safe access, material requirements, time frames based on minimal resources (one helper), and finally the potential for RRP protocol.

I would most likely conclude that this job wasn't for me, and do my best to refer her else where. This is based on the assumption she wouldn't accept my best offer.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

I don't understand what you guys paint for a living, in New England that condition of exterior paint would be considered moderate. 5 layers? My normal house repaints had 20+ layers going back 100+ years! And folks would want 7+ year warranties against cracking and peeling - LOL!!!!


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## Dunbar Painting (Mar 19, 2010)

This condition of siding is not uncommon for shingle/wood siding houses in my area. We are on the coast so there is lots of water, salt, wind etc... and lots of people do not take care for their house.

I would bid on it, taking into consideration the days of sanding and/or stripping. I would be unlikely to get it, when they see the 12-18k price (can't tell how big the whole house is). Then they would hire some cheap company to do a temporary fix. This happens all the time.

That being said, I heard of a guy who lives in a nice area near by (is a lawyer), and is hiring the most expensive contractor in this area to strip and repaint his house. Bid on that job is $250,000. Using 80 pails of Peel Away, then repainting it with all SW- Emerald. IT is a big shingle house, but not as big as you might think.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

TJ Paint said:


> I'm just on this forum to improve my thanks to posts ratio.





Woodland said:


> Your "thanks" vs "thanked" ratios are really close. Nobody ever thanks me


Awwww... now watch all the "thanks" start piling up. You two are shameless. :yes: 




Steve Richards said:


> I doubt that was the first time Ewing got called a name here.
> 
> Don't feel bad, Ewing. I got called an ass and a dick once in the same thread!



Yeah well... :whistling2:


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

hotwing7 said:


> Do you wear glasses like the ones in your profile pic or something???? What part of my response insinuated that :no:
> 
> I'm insinuating (maybe wrongly in your clouded vision) that people who take the tme to use this forum, actually care about the job they do as they are here to share ideas and learn new things - which dictates a level of pride and care in their work.
> 
> ...


so many hot heads here these days.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Dunbar Painting said:


> This condition of siding is not uncommon for shingle/wood siding houses in my area. We are on the coast so there is lots of water, salt, wind etc... and lots of people do not take care for their house.
> 
> I would bid on it, taking into consideration the days of sanding and/or stripping. I would be unlikely to get it, when they see the 12-18k price (can't tell how big the whole house is). Then they would hire some cheap company to do a temporary fix. This happens all the time.
> 
> That being said, I heard of a guy who lives in a nice area near by (is a lawyer), and is hiring the most expensive contractor in this area to strip and repaint his house. Bid on that job is $250,000. Using 80 pails of Peel Away, then repainting it with all SW- Emerald. IT is a big shingle house, but not as big as you might think..


Coby,

I'd be cautious about naming other companies here. Even if it's not a negative comment it might not be appreciated. JMO.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

ewingpainting.net said:


> so many hot heads here these days.


Cough... splutter... choke... cough... gasp... :jester:


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

ewingpainting.net said:


> are you insinuating that some in this thread would be ripping off the elderly?


You can always charge $200 a day :whistling2:


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

or hire someone from Billy.com and never pay full price.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Woodland said:


> Your "thanks" vs "thanked" ratios are really close. Nobody ever thanks me


I play a three card monty shell game for my thanks but I usually win.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

wncpainter said:


> a two bit billy?. i've been called alot of things but thats the first I've heard of that. It must be a Canadian thing... Maybe a two bit hack..:whistling2:
> Love PT, get good advice and a pissing contest all in one thread. Certainly if i do take it I will be documenting the progress, but seeing as I can't throw five guys with scrapers and moon suits(I'm just a two man operation now) I may strongly suggest she look at new siding. Certainly Hardi board over vinyl and then I could paint it for her. Definetly have to have a serious sit-down, some people don't seem to understand the degree to which their coatings are failling and think all it takes is a simple wash, scrape, sand, and paint. I love doing exteriors, much better money maker for me than inside work,, but this project as got me seeing red...Cheers.... hope not everyone has to work tomorrow......


New siding might be her best option. Im not much into the older homes. but I think if I were to strip that one I would go with "Peel away" for paint removal. You do realize we are now expecting to hear how this one ends :yes:


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

plainpainter said:


> I don't understand what you guys paint for a living, in New England that condition of exterior paint would be considered moderate. 5 layers? My normal house repaints had 20+ layers going back 100+ years! And folks would want 7+ year warranties against cracking and peeling - LOL!!!!


Yeh right. Where do these people work and who are they workin for I dunno.
That is a picture of a house that needs a typical repaint. what is with the making it into a federal project? I don't get it at all.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

plainpainter said:


> I don't understand what you guys paint for a living, in New England that condition of exterior paint would be considered moderate. 5 layers? My normal house repaints had 20+ layers going back 100+ years! And folks would want 7+ year warranties against cracking and peeling - LOL!!!!


I wouldnt touch that old peeling nightmare period. Many things are regional. Not everything is the same all across the US. Have you ever even actually been outside of New England? I have painted in your part of the US. Have you ever worked out west? We have those old homes if I travel down to Portland, but I dont work Portland. I work SW Washington. Come out here and you will be painting HardiPlank, HardiPlank, and more HardiPlank with the occaisional Cedar siding house. Go down to Florida and its all stuccos.


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

Woodland said:


> I wouldnt touch that old peeling nightmare period. Many things are regional. Not everything is the same all across the US. Have you ever even actually been outside of New England? I have painted in your part of the US. Have you ever worked out west? We have those old homes if I travel down to Portland, but I dont work Portland. I work SW Washington. Come out here and you will be painting HardiPlank, HardiPlank, and more HardiPlank with the occaisional Cedar siding house. Go down to Florida and its all stuccos.



Yup.....regional differences should be kept in mind on most threads. 

Winnipeg has one of the highest ratios of old homes in Canada. Not as old as New England mind you.

I'm painting hardiplank for the first time when it stops raining....its an extention....to a 100 year old home.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Paint and Hammer said:


> Yup.....regional differences should be kept in mind on most threads.
> 
> Winnipeg has one of the highest ratios of old homes in Canada. Not as old as New England mind you.
> 
> I'm painting hardiplank for the first time when it stops raining....its an extention....to a 100 year old home.


It will spoil you. :yes:


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

researchhound said:


> It will spoil you. :yes:



I'm a bit afraid of that.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

ewingpainting.net said:


> so many hot heads here these days.


 Hot headed Hotwing!Could be worse.Hot headed ewing!


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

mudbone said:


> Hot headed Hotwing!Could be worse.Hot headed ewing!


:clap:


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Oden said:


> Yeh right. Where do these people work and who are they workin for I dunno.
> That is a picture of a house that needs a typical repaint. what is with the making it into a federal project? I don't get it at all.


Mandated legislation from the Federal Government and authority of the EPA to regulate RRP, along with fines for not complying makes it a federal project.

The happy days of going balls out with your Makita 5" Sander are over. Jobs like the one wnc posted are toxic waste sites that should be avoided.


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

CApainter said:


> Mandated legislation from the Federal Government and authority of the EPA to regulate RRP, along with fines for not complying makes it a federal project.
> 
> The happy days of going balls out with your Makita 5" Sander are over. Jobs like the one wnc posted are toxic waste sites that should be avoided.



I forget the "CA" in your name doesn't mean CANADA....then you write something like this and it reminds me. 

If you feel a craving, come on up and run those sanders full bore guilt free for awhile.

.


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## Ultimate (Mar 20, 2011)

Dunbar Painting said:


> This condition of siding is not uncommon for shingle/wood siding houses in my area. We are on the coast so there is lots of water, salt, wind etc... and lots of people do not take care for their house.
> 
> I would bid on it, taking into consideration the days of sanding and/or stripping. I would be unlikely to get it, when they see the 12-18k price (can't tell how big the whole house is). Then they would hire some cheap company to do a temporary fix. This happens all the time.
> 
> That being said, I heard of a guy who lives in a nice area near by (is a lawyer), and is hiring the most expensive contractor in this area to strip and repaint his house. Bid on that job is $250,000. Using 80 pails of Peel Away, then repainting it with all SW- Emerald. IT is a big shingle house, but not as big as you might think.


Pic?


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Paint and Hammer said:


> I'm a bit afraid of that.


Just think of it as a nice vacation before going back to the normal routine. :yes:


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

FatherandSonPainting said:


> Pic?


maybe this one?


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## wncpainter (Aug 7, 2010)

> This condition of siding is not uncommon for shingle/wood siding houses in my area. We are on the coast so there is lots of water, salt, wind etc... and lots of people do not take care for their house.
> 
> I would bid on it, taking into consideration the days of sanding and/or stripping. I would be unlikely to get it, when they see the 12-18k price (can't tell how big the whole house is). Then they would hire some cheap company to do a temporary fix. This happens all the time.
> 
> That being said, I heard of a guy who lives in a nice area near by (is a lawyer), and is hiring the most expensive contractor in this area to strip and repaint his house. Bid on that job is $250,000. Using 80 pails of Peel Away, then repainting it with all SW- Emerald. IT is a big shingle house, but not as big as you might think


I can tell you the friendly, neigborly, helping the elderly price is certainly north of 10,000, and even a number like that looks $$$ to most anyone wanting a repaint. 



> Originally Posted by *CApainter*
> _Mandated legislation from the Federal Government and authority of the EPA to regulate RRP, along with fines for not complying makes it a federal project._
> 
> _The happy days of going balls out with your Makita 5" Sander are over. Jobs like the one wnc posted are toxic waste sites that should be avoided._


I'm not sure about the toxic waste sites, especially if done properly. It certainly is not pretty and can be dangereous to the painters , homeowners, neighbors, etc. But what do you tell these people who own these old homes and are on a fixed income that they are going to need 15,000-25000$++ to strip and repaint their house. There is still alot of this work around here. I don't like to do it, I'm not sure anybody does, unless the price of course is right, but most won't pay for it and get a blow and go hack. I have made a few bids on lead repaints around here and sometimes they get the number and I think they are insulted.


> Originally Posted by *plainpainter*
> _I don't understand what you guys paint for a living, in New England that condition of exterior paint would be considered moderate. 5 layers? My normal house repaints had 20+ layers going back 100+ years! And folks would want 7+ year warranties against cracking and peeling - LOL!!!!_


Maybe i should have gotton some close ups on the raillings, sills, and door jambs, Every ounce of lead paint was peeled up to itself. If that is a standard repaint in NE than I would probably be in a different line of work. We have quite a few of these old homes here 100 years old plus and most are in need of some serious TLC, of course not as bad as this one. I would love to see pics of worse painting failures that have been recoated..I love the Stucco and Hardi that is more common round here. Although something has got to be done on this one,, hope to have a sit-down today and talk her into new siding before I go the full blown estimate. Thanks for the helpful comments and the back and forth PT. Happy Memorial Day for those in the US


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

Plain's onto something, here in NE that house may be on the lower end of average, but its not out of the ordinary. HO's do get a little bent when you quote 5 figures figures though....


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## Ultimate (Mar 20, 2011)

chrisn said:


> maybe this one?


Awesome photo. 

To the OP. If you know someone that you trust does a good job doing rot work and replacing siding or something along those lines, get them involved and do a price comparison. Not sure of the windows, but even replacing windows is often a better idea that restoring the older styled ones anymore. Especially if the customer is thinking long term. In older homes like this in Charlotte they are passed down in families from generations back. Called 'old money'. If they go with vinyl, there will still be bits of trim to paint. If they go with hardi or wood you paint it. Color-Plus you still have trim. It's usually an easy sell when the client has on paper the cost difference between replace w new and restore old. Considering the lead removal, there may be little difference in replacing versus restoring. Restoring could even cost more. The carpenter you provided the lead to will be most grateful and most likely throw work your way relatively soon. 

I wouldn't let the size of the figure, your reaction to it or your idea of how the client would possibly react to it affect your estimation of what it is going to cost you to take care of it. If it is $5,000 or $25,000.

Prior to bringing in this other carpenter, I would feel the customer out a little close to be sure they are prepared to pay for the service and get a reaction to the idea of replacing. If there is a positive reaction then pursue it. If they want a band aid without following the RRP guidelines I would walk away.


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## Hanger in VT (Aug 5, 2008)

Most of the homes I paint here in Vermont are 100 -150 years old, and many are in similar, if not worse shape than in the OP's photo. Most of the people owning these beautiful old homes have a few bucks. Many have experienced cheapo paint jobs in the past, and are ok with paying 12-20K or more for a good paint job, knowing that they will end up re-painting less frequently. Following the RRP guidelines adds to the costs for sure, but people seem to understand for the most part. 

Another poster suggested replacing old windows rather than repairing them. Replacing old wooden windows with replacement windows is seriously frowned upon in these parts, and is not allowed in some historic sections. The original windows are often made of dense old growth hardwoods, have lasted a hundred years and will last another hundred with regular maintenance. Most replacement windows are made of vinyl and finger jointed softwoods, and will likely be in a landfill in 20-30 years.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Its different out west.


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## Ultimate (Mar 20, 2011)

Hanger in VT said:


> Most of the homes I paint here in Vermont are 100 -150 years old, and many are in similar, if not worse shape than in the OP's photo. Most of the people owning these beautiful old homes have a few bucks. Many have experienced cheapo paint jobs in the past, and are ok with paying 12-20K or more for a good paint job, knowing that they will end up re-painting less frequently. Following the RRP guidelines adds to the costs for sure, but people seem to understand for the most part.
> 
> Another poster suggested replacing old windows rather than repairing them. Replacing old wooden windows with replacement windows is seriously frowned upon in these parts, and is not allowed in some historic sections. The original windows are often made of dense old growth hardwoods, have lasted a hundred years and will last another hundred with regular maintenance. Most replacement windows are made of vinyl and finger jointed softwoods, and will likely be in a landfill in 20-30 years.


There is a guy replacing many of the old style sash windows on the homes that have managed to survive the hurricanes here. Carolina coast. He is going with Pella or Anderson stainable, paintable or completely wrapped. Are you telling me these are good for 20-30 years and that's it? I'm no window expert although I'm not against providing the service. Just curious because those are not cheap windows. Guy sells a lot of it. Relatively speaking anyway. I actually like them but if all you get is 30 yrs max then maybe it's not so good of an idea after all.


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## Hanger in VT (Aug 5, 2008)

FatherandSonPainting said:


> There is a guy replacing many of the old style sash windows on the homes that have managed to survive the hurricanes here. Carolina coast. He is going with Pella or Anderson stainable, paintable or completely wrapped. Are you telling me these are good for 20-30 years and that's it? I'm no window expert although I'm not against providing the service. Just curious because those are not cheap windows. Guy sells a lot of it. Relatively speaking anyway. I actually like them but if all you get is 30 yrs max then maybe it's not so good of an idea after all.


Are we talking about nice architecture & historic homes? Nothing wrong with replacement windows for some of the less well built homes from the 60's, 70's & 80's, and there is a ton of money to be made by contractors installing new windows. From a home owners perspective, though, replacement windows are often a bad idea. Anderson & Pella both only guarantee their glass for 20 years, and all other parts for only ten. Once the seal is shot, the window needs to be replaced.

www.andersenwindows.com/servlet/Satellite/AW/Page/awGeneral-3/1110839778259

www.pella.com/Documents/pdf/warranties/Wood_Win-Door_Warranty.pdf


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## Ultimate (Mar 20, 2011)

No nothing to write home about architecturally. I get your point and agree completely.


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## Ardee (Jun 9, 2008)

I just gotta doubt that any paint would adhere to most of those areas where there are problems now. No 7 year guarantee from me.


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## wncpainter (Aug 7, 2010)

Decided to pull the trigger and go for it after we agreed on some numbers, really almost walked away after the second day thinking it was impossible, but can't do that..

Hard part is over and it was a dooozy. Started with this stuff










stripped the windows and started with some siding, but after some nasty burns and the pain it was to wash it down and neutralize the PH, I decided that much of the orginal oil had a good tooth, so wet scraped the bad stuff and poured a ton of this stuff










Top coated that with some tinted Grippper, good stuff, a little hesitant to use it in lieu of an oil, but realized after i started the peel away that primming with and oil was not advisable. Ready to put the top coat of paint on this week. Had a carpenter come out and replace much rot and termite damage. This house was nearly done but i think we got to it in time. Here is a little Grafitti left over from the original builders









Pretty cool history, here a few more pics
























Overall its been a PIA but its coming together and the neighbors are over the top happy that something is being done. I'll be happy when its done


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

wncpainter said:


> Decided to pull the trigger and go for it after we agreed on some numbers, really almost walked away after the second day thinking it was impossible, but can't do that..
> 
> I proposed using peel away on a job last week. I didn't get the job. I didn't want it anyway.
> 
> I'm curious though. Why did you give up on it. I have never used it. Just curious.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Cheaper in the long run to vinyl side it. Always presented that option to owners when they had houses that looked like that. Good money in vinyl siding too.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

Thanks for the update!:thumbsup:


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

looking great


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## Dunbar Painting (Mar 19, 2010)

What is wet scraping? I mean I can gauge what it is by the name, by why is it effective or what is the point?


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Dunbar Painting said:


> What is wet scraping? I mean I can gauge what it is by the name, by why is it effective or what is the point?


Wet scraping is used when you are dealing with lead paint. It is one of the recommended procedures by the EPA to minimize having lead dust flying around.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

how did you deal with the lead containment? 

I can't tell from that one pic with the drop causally placed on the deck


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## wncpainter (Aug 7, 2010)

the peel away worked well, really necessary for the windows. As I was doing the siding it was evident that the most of the original oil base had a good tooth and in order to save some serious money and time i decided that I could peel-stop it down and top coat with gripper. i have used this procedure a few times before and so far after a few years its holding down nicely. somehow I got some peel-away inside my glove and melted part of my fingernail and my helper had some brush up on his leg that was still left on a ladder the next day when we are washing. Left a nice chemical burn and I was glad not to be doing any more of it. As far as the containment we had the plastic ducted to the walls and was able to contain the mud ffom the peel stop and from the scrapping. No Pics of that cause after we had gotten most of the old paint on the plastic a nice afternoon thunderstorm blew in and it was a miracle that we got it all up and bagged before the sky let open. There would have been no containment system that would have handled that heavy rain. So what you see is just a drop protecting from the peel-stop spray and back brush. The gripper is shot to the color she wanted, now wants its darker, really want to get it done this week and move into a nice air conditioned interior job.. That Peel-away was a learning curve for me,, thanks for the advice here to use it


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## Ultimate (Mar 20, 2011)

Wolfgang said:


> Cheaper in the long run to vinyl side it. Always presented that option to owners when they had houses that looked like that. Good money in vinyl siding too.


What's the learning curve for installing it?


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## wncpainter (Aug 7, 2010)

Thickness of paste, dwell time, removal, Not letting product dry, washing, PH balance, not burning your self...... i would use it again in the right circumstances, but i would prefer to stay away from jobs like this if i could


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## sendit6 (Sep 6, 2008)

Pressure wash, carefully.
Remove mold/mildew.
Scrape anything loose.
Replace boards if necessary, wood fill where you an.
Caulk.
Prime.
Paint two coats.

Keep it simple. The house needs painted. Just tell customer that the edges where scraped will be visible.


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## Fionla (Jul 10, 2012)

do you wanna change for what color?


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## premierpainter (Apr 17, 2007)

We would strip that house in 2 days, prime in one and paint it soup to nuts in two more days...Why not do the job!


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

premierpainter said:


> We would strip that house in 2 days, prime in one and paint it soup to nuts in two more days...Why not do the job!


how many man hours would you figure (going off the pics)


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

premierpainter said:


> We would strip that house in 2 days, prime in one and paint it soup to nuts in two more days...Why not do the job!


Do you neutralize after stripping or wash it, or sand?

Sounds a bit fast, depending how many guys you got.

Sent from my MB508 using Paint Talk


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## wncpainter (Aug 7, 2010)

"We would strip that house in 2 days, prime in one and paint it soup to nuts in two more days...Why not do the job"

I wish I could have that production rate, and a normal house repaint I could come close to that, but the delicate nature of this job has got me 80 hours with two guys up to the point in the pics. now we can fly with the painting. I budgeted 120 hours for this job and looks like I will hit it. You cannot move fast with that peel stop. after removal of paste and paint, then its a wash, then vinegar solution, wash, dry, and sand as many of the wood fibers die and fuzz up. Right now I'm stalled because of rain, but hope to get back later this week


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## premierpainter (Apr 17, 2007)

We use a product called Rock Miracle. We tape plastic to the last row of siding, follow all RRP rules in the meantime. Spray on with our little 440. Wait 5 mins. Scrape it off. This will generally take off all paint down to the primer. We then follow that by sanding high spots and follow that with palm sanding. We can put 4 guys on 3000 sq ft of siding and trim and have it bare wood in 2 days. This is what we do to nearly 80% of our houses, so we have it down. Rock Miracle is neutral with water. 
Judging by the photo...160 to 180 hours. That is based on 4 men working 8.5 hours a day for 5 days.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Which Rock Miracle product, or does it depend on the situation?


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## premierpainter (Apr 17, 2007)

We use Original. Peel Away is a pain. Rock can be sprayed on.


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## Richard06 (May 26, 2014)

Doesn't look like the paint would be too difficult to scrape, just depends on the condition of the wood underneath. Some of it looks rotted.


Sent from my iPhone using PaintTalk.com


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## Richard06 (May 26, 2014)

premierpainter said:


> We use a product called Rock Miracle. We tape plastic to the last row of siding, follow all RRP rules in the meantime. Spray on with our little 440. Wait 5 mins. Scrape it off. This will generally take off all paint down to the primer. We then follow that by sanding high spots and follow that with palm sanding. We can put 4 guys on 3000 sq ft of siding and trim and have it bare wood in 2 days. This is what we do to nearly 80% of our houses, so we have it down. Rock Miracle is neutral with water.
> Judging by the photo...160 to 180 hours. That is based on 4 men working 8.5 hours a day for 5 days.



Never heard of this product Rock Miracle from where I come from, I'll have to research it


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

I only read a few of the first few posts....are you guys really that scared of lead houses? Why wouldn't you paint the house?


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

chrisn will be by in 6 or 7 hours to talk to ya'll about necro-threading.

Stand by til then. :whistling2:


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

slinger58 said:


> chrisn will be by in 6 or 7 hours to talk to ya'll about necro-threading.
> 
> Stand by til then. :whistling2:


I was gonna but this richard06 guy is picking up ALL the old ones and I don't have the energy to jump him( her)


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## wncpainter (Aug 7, 2010)

ha good to see this necro thread, two years later and house is looking good. wish I had my festool for that job. Although now Im done with old lead houses that are in such poor shape.


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## Northwest_painter (Jan 27, 2012)

Richard06 said:


> Doesn't look like the paint would be too difficult to scrape, just depends on the condition of the wood underneath. Some of it looks rotted.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PaintTalk.com


This post is two years old! what are you a Necroposter?


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

I would. 

Sent from my SGH-T989D using Tapatalk


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

chrisn said:


> I was gonna but this richard06 guy is picking up ALL the old ones and I don't have the energy to jump him( her)


A "her" named _richard_? :blink:

Oh wait....ok. If we can't stop a necro-thread, we'll hijack the dang thing.

Good strategy, chrisn! :thumbsup:


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

slinger58 said:


> A "her" named _richard_? :blink:
> 
> Oh wait....ok. If we can't stop a necro-thread, we'll hijack the dang thing.
> 
> Good strategy, chrisn! :thumbsup:


 
almost as good as SR


almost


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