# Bar Top Epoxy?



## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

I have a couple 3" thick planks of Cedar that I want to make a workbench from. Cedar looks nice, but is soft. 

I thought maybe Bar Top Epoxy would give it a durable finish, with a nice glassy surface??? I don't have any experience with it (other than seeing it on...Bar Tops). Other suggestions? 


*I need a surface that's durable, but also nice enough that you could write a letter on top of it (smooth + hard surface)


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

I hate that plasticy look that poured epoxy gives. Doesn't 'belong' on wood IMO.


Personally I would plane/sand and use a finish like odies oil alternatively a 2K urethane.


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

In agreement with Cocomonkeynuts.

The only film finish I’d consider using on a softwood or on a soft hardwood wear surface would be a 2K WB PU as CMN suggested. It wouldn’t fortify or strengthen the wood, but would provide a lot of flexibility and give with surfaces prone to compression dents. 2K PU’s also have really good mar, scratch, and chemical resistance. 

Below is a photo of compression dents on a soft hardwood (butternut) with a Janka hardness of 490 psi, and finished with a 2K WB commercial matte PU. The wood dented but the film remained flexible and didn’t scratch. In relation to butternut, WRC has a Janka hardness of 350 and white cedar being 320. The only time I’d consider the use of a softwood on a wear surface, would be if the exposed wear surfaces were vertical grain, VG being considerably more durable than flat grain due to a higher % of denser latewood.

For the cost of a gallon of 2K PU, it would probably make more $$ sense to purchase some S4S maple or some other hardwood, the expense would probably be an equal trade off for 3/4-4/4” dimensional lumber.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Alchemy Redux said:


> In agreement with Cocomonkeynuts.
> 
> The only film finish I’d consider using on a softwood or on a soft hardwood wear surface would be a 2K WB PU as CMN suggested. It wouldn’t fortify or strengthen the wood, but would provide a lot of flexibility and give with surfaces prone to compression dents. 2K PU’s also have really good mar, scratch, and chemical resistance.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your suggestions. Janka Scale is interesting. Can you be more specific with name of recommended product, please? We have PPG and SW nearby. BM dealer is 50 min away. 

Making a seating bench and a workbench.*
I would like to make the best of this situation, with what I have available. If I hate how soft it is I can consider changing it down the road. 

*I have another workbench near the same space, which is already outfitted with a hardwood top, so I can use that for real work.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Is there such a thing as wood hardener? 



(that's what she said)


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

Holland said:


> Thank you for your suggestions. Janka Scale is interesting. Can you be more specific with name of recommended product, please? We have PPG and SW nearby. BM dealer is 50 min away.
> 
> Making a seating bench and a workbench.*
> I would like to make the best of this situation, with what I have available. If I hate how soft it is I can consider changing it down the road.
> ...


For the butternut I used Bona Traffic Naturale commercial matte without the specified sealer, just using it straight up on the raw wood. It’s a 2K isocyanate catalyzed WB PU.

One thing I’ve done to improve softwood wear surface durability, especially on flooring, is to brush the wood to remove the softer earlywood, rendering a harder wear surface. The denser latewood which remains intact doesn’t dent or scratch as easily.

Just to give you an idea of what brushed cedar looks like, I’ve included some photos of new smooth planed/then wire brushed Western Red Cedar which was put into production on a project. It was colored with iron vitriol and oiled. The 4th photo is of brushed white oak. It looks pretty nice on uncolored natural cedar.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Alchemy Redux said:


> For the butternut I used Bona Traffic Naturale commercial matte without the specified sealer, just using it straight up on the raw wood. It’s a 2K isocyanate catalyzed WB PU.
> 
> One thing I’ve done to improve softwood wear surface durability, especially on flooring, is to brush the wood to remove the softer earlywood, rendering a harder wear surface. The denser latewood which remains intact doesn’t dent or scratch as easily.
> 
> Just to give you an idea of what brushed cedar looks like, I’ve included some photos of new smooth planed/then wire brushed Western Red Cedar which was put into production on a project. It was colored with iron vitriol and oiled. The 4th photo is of brushed white oak. It looks pretty nice on uncolored natural cedar.


so, just so I am understanding you correctly, you "wire brush"(?) the surface to remove the softer wood? That makes sense, and I don't mind the look of it. noted. 

Thank you for the info: Bona Traffic Naturale - 2K isocyanate catalyzed WB PU. I am assuming this is a floor finish (with hardener) so likely very durable. Question: What happens when the wood gets dented, will it leave a white mark, or will it flex with the wood and just leave a dent? 

- - -

I have been reading across the world wide internet regarding Cedar as a workbench, and Bar Top Epoxy comes up the most often (due to inherant softness of the wood). You made your views 'clear' on this, and I agree with you in many respects - Bar Tops always look and feel a little plasticky. My opinion is that most waterborne varnish (water white clears) also look and feel a little plasticky. 

Would it change your opinion to know that a person could shoot a matte catylized lacquer over the top of Bar Top Epoxy to give it a Satin finish? 

As far as durability, I think one would be hard pressed to find anything tougher than Epoxy. How would Bona Traffic Naturale fare against it by comparison?


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Alchemy Redux said:


> Just to give you an idea of what brushed cedar looks like, I’ve included some photos of new smooth planed/then wire brushed Western Red Cedar which was put into production on a project. It was colored with iron vitriol and oiled. The 4th photo is of brushed white oak. It looks pretty nice on uncolored natural cedar.


Thanks again AR, for the pics and info.

*What is recommended application for Bona Traffic? Can it be brushed? Sprayed? both?


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Holland said:


> Thanks again AR, for the pics and info.
> 
> *What is recommended application for Bona Traffic? Can it be brushed? Sprayed? both?



FYI most manufacturers make a 2K polyurethane. Some are isocyanate free. Some are meant to be sprayed like General finishes CV. Floor finishes can typically be used via pad, brush, roll or sprayed.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

If your going to go to all the effort to protect soft wood with the bar top finish, why not just put a piece of plexiglass down on it, or tempered glass?


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> FYI most manufacturers make a 2K polyurethane. Some are isocyanate free. Some are meant to be sprayed like General finishes CV. Floor finishes can typically be used via pad, brush, roll or sprayed.


What is the importance of isocyanate (or lack of it) in a 2K floor finish?


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

RH said:


> If your going to go to all the effort to protect soft wood with the bar top finish, why not just put a piece of plexiglass down on it, or tempered glass?


12' long, and irregular shape. 

Beautiful, thick Cedar lumber. I don't think there's a single knot in it.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Holland said:


> What is the importance of isocyanate (or lack of it) in a 2K floor finish?



You mean opposed to other catalysts? Afraid that's above my pay grade.
This is the best comparison i found:
https://www.pcimag.com/articles/105184-crosslinking-polyurethane-dispersions


> *Conclusion*
> 
> Four different crosslinkers were evaluated along with a PUD-acrylic hybrid to determine their performance as a crosslinker in a wood coating. Several properties were studied, and IR analysis was done to determine the crosslinking mechanism. The results for the application testing can be summarized in Figure 11. The isocyanate and PCDI provided the most significant improvement in chemical and stain resistance without affecting the flexibility of the resin. While isocyanates can be skin sensitizers, PCDI is much safer to use. PCDI as a crosslinker has a longer pot life when compared to that of the isocyanate, however, PCDI needs a higher temperature for complete cure. Excellent abrasion resistance can be achieved by aziridine, though these tend to yellow more rapidly under artificial weathering. Melamine formaldehyde is the cheapest, but in our system was a poor crosslinker and in some cases negatively affected the performance properties of the resin. It is therefore important to evaluate different crosslinkers and understand their benefits and drawbacks in a given system to enable the formulation of a high-performance wood coating.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Very cool graph! Clearly, the ICO's a better crosslinking product in terms of performance. It's too bad it's so hazardous.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

A friend of mine finished his pine kitchen table with a 2 part epoxy. Same stuff he makes his surfboards with. (unsure of exact product) He buffed it down with a polisher to a matte finish. Darn beautiful it is..Oh, And epoxy doesn't yellow or smell too bad, not to mention way tougher than a polyurethane. We use it on surfboards which are made out of foam. Alot of surfboards are made with 2k polurethane, the epoxy boards will outlast the poly ones 7 days a week..


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

finishesbykevyn said:


> A friend of mine finished his pine kitchen table with a 2 part epoxy. Same stuff he makes his surfboards with. (unsure of exact product) He buffed it down with a polisher to a matte finish. Darn beautiful it is..Oh, And epoxy doesn't yellow or smell too bad, not to mention way tougher than a polyurethane. We use it on surfboards which are made out of foam. Alot of surfboards are made with 2k polurethane, the epoxy boards will outlast the poly ones 7 days a week..


How does he polish the Epoxy? Did he use a compound, or something else?


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Holland said:


> How does he polish the Epoxy? Did he use a compound, or something else?


I believe he sanded with 1000 grit paper and then buffed it with a lambs wool pad on an orbital..


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

@Holland

I like Kevin’s example of epoxy used on surfboards. 

Although most woodworkers/finishers including myself tout the use of 2K polys for bar tops and high wear surfaces, I’d retract my suggestion for a 2K poly, thinking epoxy would be the better choice for the intended application.

I also wouldn’t mess with lacquer over epoxy, the reason being, you can sand and polish out scratches in epoxy. 

One suggestion with bar-top epoxy, particularly if the workbench is going to be used in a space which will be subjected to temperature and humidity swings, is to seal all sides. The reason is I’ve had 2 separate incidents where 2 tables finished with bar-top epoxy by others were kept in storage without climate control while work was being performed on the homes, one table being placed in an outdoor storage container in a cold humid environment for an extended period, only to have the epoxy crack/shatter and delaminate from the wood substrates on both tables. 

It appeared both failures were a result of the wood expanding due to the undersides not being sealed, something having to give. I’ve had and/or seen weather checking before with nitro finishes and polyester, not being aware that it could happen to epoxy due to its high sheer strength. Having it happen twice was probably no coincidence.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Alchemy Redux said:


> @*Holland*
> 
> I like Kevin’s example of epoxy used on surfboards.
> 
> ...



Delamination of epoxy is a real issue, that's the main reason I don't suggest it for bar tops as it suddenly becomes "not in the budget" to seal up everything before applying epoxy. Saw major weather checking some some doors and panels finished with pigmented CV. What a mess that was!


Epoxy also isn't UV stable


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Delamination of epoxy is a real issue, that's the main reason I don't suggest it for bar tops as it suddenly becomes "not in the budget" to seal up everything before applying epoxy. Saw major weather checking some some doors and panels finished with pigmented CV. What a mess that was!
> 
> 
> Epoxy also isn't UV stable


I’ve seen just about every epoxy bar-top finish delaminate to some degree, especially at failed glue joints. That’s why I wouldn’t use it for a client and/or for my own personal use. 

The two failures I mentioned were pretty severe. On one table the broken and delaminated epoxy could effortlessly be swept off the tabletop with a stiff corn brush without exaggeration. I have some pics and videos I’ll post if I can locate them. You’d have to see it to believe it. I would have expected it to delaminate rather than both break & delaminate.

Even a seasonal 4% MC swing on a 30” wide WRC flat sawn top would result in 7/32” tangential movement which would be enough to delaminate and/or break a bar-top epoxy, a 4% change being a conservative estimate for something kept in an unconditioned space in my region. 

I did have ~ $50K in catalyzed lacquer finishes experience catastrophic weather checking in 1988 dollars. After I finished them, the client stored them dead of winter in his cabinet shop where he turned off the heat after hours. The finishes ended up completely shattering due to sudden repeated temperature swings. Thankfully he assumed the responsibility for the failure.

(My previous post was a bit misinforming: Weather checking is unrelated to changes in moisture content. It is due to the differential in thermal expansion/contraction coefficients of both the finish and the substrate. Temperature swings can result in inflexible coatings like epoxy shattering or delaminating when a drastic differential exists between the the coefficients of the wood substrate and epoxy.)


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Alchemy Redux said:


> I did have ~ $50K in catalyzed lacquer finishes experience catastrophic weather checking in 1988 dollars. After I finished them, the client stored them dead of winter in his cabinet shop where he turned off the heat after hours. The finishes ended up completely shattering due to sudden repeated temperature swings. Thankfully he assumed the responsibility for the failure.



Same happened here. Manufacturer had them shipped from canada then installed in non climate controlled house. Wasn't in the budget to strip and respray so they sanded, primed with stix and sprayed advance.


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## juanvaldez (Sep 7, 2019)

Try polyester clear casting resin. It’s meant to be poured thick. 

I’ve done The bar top epoxy with some ok and some great results. 

Clear casting will need to be multi grit fine sanded up to 2000 then machine polished to achieve a kinda similar look, similar to the surfboard reply above. Which ends up being pretty labor intensive. Up side is you can pour another coat and it will dry fast enough to try again. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Yes, his table is in a dining room un-subject to climate change. Also, for the surfboards, they are 100% sealed/wrapped with fibreglass, so alot stronger obviously when you add the glass. 
Obviously not a good comparison, but his table does look darn nice and bullet proof in his warm dining room..
Amazing though, that all my polyurethane boards are beat to hell, and my epoxy ones still look brand new..


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

This project will always be in climate controlled environment, and the wood has been kiln dried.

I agree that treating all sides of the wood is critical, to avoid environmental effects of humidity, twisting, warping, etc...


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

juanvaldez said:


> Try polyester clear casting resin. It’s meant to be poured thick.
> 
> I’ve done The bar top epoxy with some ok and some great results.
> 
> ...



jeff jewitt talks a lot about using polyester resins in his book, mainly grain filler. Always been my understanding that epoxy resins are superior to polyester in just about every way.


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

juanvaldez said:


> Try polyester clear casting resin. It’s meant to be poured thick.
> 
> I’ve done The bar top epoxy with some ok and some great results.
> 
> ...



Edit: never mind...I didn’t read Holland’s post that the bench will be in a climate controlled space...


Just a note on polyester:
High build polyester finishes are extremely susceptible to cold cracking and shouldn’t be used for surfaces which might be subjected to drastic temperature swings. I had a hardwood flooring contractor send me some photos of a new dining room table finished with a high build polyester that he placed into an unconditioned storage container when refinishing some floors last winter, wanting to hire me to refinish it. The polyester shattered like a pane of glass and delaminated from the wood substrate. Pianos which are typically finished with polyester experience cold cracking when stored and/or transported in cold temperatures. 

I bring up these points because I had experienced a number of clear finish failures my first year in the biz amounting to several hundreds of thousands of dollars, none of which I was held accountable for. Taunton Press’s Fine Woodworking magazine had published an investigative piece for us on the failures we experienced and the reasons why, weather checking aka cold cracking being one of the failures.


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## drybrush (Sep 1, 2011)

FWIW, old-school surfboards are/were built with polyester resin, not polyurethane. Nasty stuff.

If this were my cedar slab, I'd use a water-thin penetrating epoxy, eg Macropoxy 920 or Devoe Pre-Prime 167, on a test area to see how it goes if you want to be conservative. That said, I've never used it on wood intentionally, but it's formulated for soaking in and hardens slowly, eg a day, wicking into all areas where it can find a path. The trick is to keep mopping out the low spots so it doesn't pond here and there where it has found its soaking limit. Anyway, just a couple of coats of this, applied by hand (pad, rag, brush) would probably stabilize and harden the top 1/16" to 1/8" of the cedar. It's got a very low, slight ammonia odor. Hardening time depends on your work-area temp. I think it's sold in gallon kits, which will last you through umpteen projects but would require you to accurately proportion. The hardener ambers a bit with age, as would the cured product if exposed to sun long-term.

--Dave


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## dnj300 (Jan 17, 2018)

Just a quick pointer if you go ahead with the poured on type epoxy.. Be sure to seal up the wood first with a coat or 2 of normal poly.. Also keep the surface very clean of any dust or other particles prior to doing the pour. If not you will get air bubbles in the finish which are just about impossible to get rid of, at least in my experience.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Yes Polyester. Thanks for the correction. That's what I meant. Nasty stuff indeed. They still use it today. Even doing a small repair in your basement will stink up your whole house. Epoxy on the other hand you can do in your living room with hardly any smell..


drybrush said:


> FWIW, old-school surfboards are/were built with polyester resin, not polyurethane.
> If this were my cedar slab, I'd use a water-thin penetrating epoxy, eg Macropoxy 920 or Devoe Pre-Prime 167, on a test area to see how it goes if you want to be conservative. That said, I've never used it on wood intentionally, but it's formulated for soaking in and hardens slowly, eg a day, wicking into all areas where it can find a path. The trick is to keep mopping out the low spots so it doesn't pond here and there where it has found its soaking limit. Anyway, just a couple of coats of this, applied by hand (pad, rag, brush) would probably stabilize and harden the top 1/16" to 1/8" of the cedar. It's got a very low, slight ammonia odor. Hardening time depends on your work-area temp. I think it's sold in gallon kits, which will last you through umpteen projects but would require you to accurately proportion. The hardener ambers a bit with age, as would the cured product if exposed to sun long-term.
> 
> --Dave


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

drybrush said:


> FWIW, old-school surfboards are/were built with polyester resin, not polyurethane. Nasty stuff.
> 
> If this were my cedar slab, I'd use a water-thin penetrating epoxy, eg Macropoxy 920 or Devoe Pre-Prime 167, on a test area to see how it goes if you want to be conservative. That said, I've never used it on wood intentionally, but it's formulated for soaking in and hardens slowly, eg a day, wicking into all areas where it can find a path. The trick is to keep mopping out the low spots so it doesn't pond here and there where it has found its soaking limit. Anyway, just a couple of coats of this, applied by hand (pad, rag, brush) would probably stabilize and harden the top 1/16" to 1/8" of the cedar. It's got a very low, slight ammonia odor. Hardening time depends on your work-area temp. I think it's sold in gallon kits, which will last you through umpteen projects but would require you to accurately proportion. The hardener ambers a bit with age, as would the cured product if exposed to sun long-term.
> 
> --Dave


Although I could be totally wrong, I think I read something by the US Forest Products Laboratory indicating that the Cedars lack transport paths through horizontal face grain, being absent of resin ducts, the lack of which I’m guessing would inhibit epoxy impregnation through the face grain to any significant depth. VG on cedar experiences better absorption although I think you’d be lucky to get 10 mils of penetration and not a 125 mils or 1/8”. It will however penetrate face grain deeper with other genera such as the firs or pines which have transportation paths. 

I was working with a thin clear penetrating epoxy sealer by Abatron earlier on my own house consolidating some some Fir which has gotten a little soft. Being I had the material out, just for kicks, I saturated a WRC board with it to see how deeply it would penetrate. 

After flooding the board for a couple of hours, I wiped off the excess and cross cut the board to observe the penetration depth. It appears to have only penetrated 6 mils on the vertical grain in a few spots illustrated on the top of the board in the last photo, the 6 or so small dark spots being the only places it penetrated. It didn’t penetrate the flat grain at all. I don’t think an 1/8” @ 125 mils is gonna happen. I was expecting it to penetrate more, even warming it up with a hairdryer to try and drive it in. 

Once again, I’m not certain on this and couldn’t locate the publication. I’m wondering if letting it soak longer would have any effect??


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Alchemy Redux said:


> Although I could be totally wrong, I think I read something by the US Forest Products Laboratory indicating that the Cedars lack transport paths through horizontal face grain, being absent of resin ducts, the lack of which I’m guessing would inhibit epoxy impregnation through the face grain to any significant depth. VG on cedar experiences better absorption although I think you’d be lucky to get 10 mils of penetration and not a 125 mils or 1/8”. It will however penetrate face grain deeper with other genera such as the firs or pines which have transportation paths.
> 
> I was working with a thin clear penetrating epoxy sealer by Abatron earlier on my own house consolidating some some Fir which has gotten a little soft. Being I had the material out, just for kicks, I saturated a WRC board with it to see how deeply it would penetrate.
> 
> ...


@A_R, 

Appreciate your input! Thank you. 
I may have just read the same article published by USDA Forestry Products research - they appear to have fairly extensive research on the subject. Wish I had saved it, as I am having trouble locating it again. 

I will not have sample pieces to play with until the boards are cut, but they appear to be older growth wood than typical Big Box lumber, they must have been cut from a big tree. 

What I gleaned from recent reading was that warming the wood, and using epoxy at room temperature, is the ideal scenario for maximum penetration. The Cooling wood pulls the epoxy the deepest. They do not advise thinning epoxy (especially with Acetone- as it ambers the epoxy). 

Some have suggested using an oil urethane to seal and harden the wood, and then top coat with epoxy, although that is fairly new territory for me.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Holland said:


> Some have suggested using an oil urethane to seal and harden the wood, and then top coat with epoxy, although that is fairly new territory for me.



I would feel comfortable sealing with benite then top coat epoxy.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> I would feel comfortable sealing with benite then top coat epoxy.


To confirm: Benite and Epoxy are compatible?


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Holland said:


> To confirm: Benite and Epoxy are compatible?



Yes, its basically polymerized tung oil... give 24 hours and a light scuff.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Here are some pics of the lumber I have - they are sitting out in a pole barn until next summer. They need to be planed and joined and then finished. 

I realize they are "plain sawn", which translates into wider boards but less dimensional stability. However, the wood seems fairly straight, and the rings seem dense for the most part (40-50+ rings growth)

Should I seal the ends to keep humidity from penetrating endgrain? Other suggestions? I think they are worth using, but am open to hearing others reaction. Thank you for input.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Holland said:


> Here are some pics of the lumber I have - they are sitting out in a pole barn until next summer. They need to be planed and joined and then finished.
> 
> I realize they are "plain sawn", which translates into wider boards but less dimensional stability. However, the wood seems fairly straight, and the rings seem dense for the most part (40-50+ rings growth)
> 
> Should I seal the ends to keep humidity from penetrating endgrain? Other suggestions? I think they are worth using, but am open to hearing others reaction. Thank you for input.



Sealing with benite will prevent the wood from taking on excess moisture until you go to plane them.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

I've been having fun with a pecan tree we had milled. I like 2 part epoxy. It's a bear with a learning curve. Made a bunch of tables for a project we were working on.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Paradigmzz said:


> I've been having fun with a pecan tree we had milled. I like 2 part epoxy. It's a bear with a learning curve. Made a bunch of tables for a project we were working on.


@ Paradigmzz, 

Beautiful live-edge slabs! Nice work.
Which Epoxy are you using? Can you offer any tips or suggestions?


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

Beautiful work, Paradigmzz


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## drybrush (Sep 1, 2011)

A few posts back someone mentioned bubbles in epoxy being a problem. Far be it from me to start any fires, but I thought it worth pointing out that the propane torch visible in the great work-documentation shots must have been there to remove bubbles via direct-heating. Very judiciously applied to any epoxy bubbling, heat will magically cause bubbles to rise to the surface and burst. Heat-guns are certainly safer, but maybe more prone to blowing crap into your work...(and if there isn't a small risk of fire, well, where's the sport in it, then?) The trick is to play a very weak flame over the surface until you're confident you're not about to scorch. Linger a little too long, and you will have a semi-hardened blob-iceberg in the middle of your project...or so they tell me...

Though it should go without saying: this is only for non-volatile resins, with no flammables in the immediate area.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Bubbles are definitely a problem and solution is doing a skin coat. Literally a really thin coat that seals the wood. The wood will still off gas and you will know where your problems are gonna be after this step. 

Per type used, we used tons and found the cheapest one on Amazon was just as good as the best. All of them, thickness of pour has to be maintained. To thick and the endothermic reaction will ruin the material. The biggest problem I had was having completely true surfaces to not have deep areas that created the heat reaction. 

I believe the product we used was US Compsites. Started ordering by the dozens of kits.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

We made a wooden router sled for the Restraunt. For the future I invested in a good Festool router and the Woodpeckers extended slab table.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

IMO Stonecoat epoxy is the best source simply because of the technical support you get ordering from them.


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

Paradigmzz said:


> We made a wooden router sled for the Restraunt. For the future I invested in a good Festool router and the Woodpeckers extended slab table.


Nice setup. I was kicking around the idea of a router mill a while back but went with a wide drum sander by Woodmaster for surfacing wide slabs instead. It worked out well as long as there wasn’t too much twist or cup otherwise I’d have to rig up a sled.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> IMO Stonecoat epoxy is the best source simply because of the technical support you get ordering from them.


Have you seen anyone attempt doing their countertop with stonecoat epoxy, and how did it look? I watched a ton of their YouTube videos and wanted to try it on my counters. Looks easy but anything can look that way on the internet. 
We updated the entire house when we bought a year ago but haven't touched the black tile counters yet. I figure why not try the stone coat, the plan is to replace anyway but my wife isn't convinced. 

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk


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## drybrush (Sep 1, 2011)

The Stonecoat honcho (can't recall his name) has a seemingly-boundless enthusiasm for his products and methods, and it's infectious; I must have watched about all of his videos a while back, too. When I once used their stuff for a small bathroom floor, he made himself available by phone, which was unexpected and appreciated. And not every epoxy vendor will send stuff by air, with many of them mistakenly believing that it's subject to hazmat requirements (air shipment was vital to me since I'm in Hawaii.) 
*My* problem with potentially doing my own counters would be perfectionism. Coming to it as a relative newb, knowing that for X years, I'd be faced with my defects or questionable color choices - no matter how small - every morning even before getting coffee...well, maybe laminate is a safer choice. Irony is I'd probably be happier paying someone else to do epoxy, even if their technique wasn't up to Sistine Chapel quality.
That said, the bath floor eventually was stunning, but did take 2-3 applications to get an effect I liked. Main problems encountered (and not trumpeted on any of the epoxy-surfacing websites other than in one video I recall) included intolerance to any - ANY - dust or larger particles that might ride the breeze through your workspace during 'to touch' cure time, which is at least a few hours. The cured surface is very reflective, and it's instinctive to check it in reflected light for such defects (see perfectionism reference, above). Wet-sanding/ buffing might have been an option but I had a lot of obstacles to work around that wouldn't have lent themselves to power-buffing on that project.
Floors also have a concern with slipperiness, and the method I chose to deal with this (regrettably) was to topcoat with a floor finish that would offer a bit more friction than the epoxy. That led to innumerable product problems, including more crap in the surface, etc. When I do this again, I will probably wet-sand the epoxy surface to 1000 or 2000 and see how it looks... and feels, when wet, in terms of neck-breaking potential.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Have you seen anyone attempt doing their countertop with stonecoat epoxy, and how did it look? I watched a ton of their YouTube videos and wanted to try it on my counters. Looks easy but anything can look that way on the internet.
> We updated the entire house when we bought a year ago but haven't touched the black tile counters yet. I figure why not try the stone coat, the plan is to replace anyway but my wife isn't convinced.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk



The BM store in great falls does a live demo every Friday with that product. Really cool how they pigment them with generic rattle cans and alcohol.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

drybrush said:


> The Stonecoat honcho (can't recall his name) has a seemingly-boundless enthusiasm for his products and methods, and it's infectious; I must have watched about all of his videos a while back, too. When I once used their stuff for a small bathroom floor, he made himself available by phone, which was unexpected and appreciated. And not every epoxy vendor will send stuff by air, with many of them mistakenly believing that it's subject to hazmat requirements (air shipment was vital to me since I'm in Hawaii.)
> *My* problem with potentially doing my own counters would be perfectionism. Coming to it as a relative newb, knowing that for X years, I'd be faced with my defects or questionable color choices - no matter how small - every morning even before getting coffee...well, maybe laminate is a safer choice. Irony is I'd probably be happier paying someone else to do epoxy, even if their technique wasn't up to Sistine Chapel quality.
> That said, the bath floor eventually was stunning, but did take 2-3 applications to get an effect I liked. Main problems encountered (and not trumpeted on any of the epoxy-surfacing websites other than in one video I recall) included intolerance to any - ANY - dust or larger particles that might ride the breeze through your workspace during 'to touch' cure time, which is at least a few hours. The cured surface is very reflective, and it's instinctive to check it in reflected light for such defects (see perfectionism reference, above). Wet-sanding/ buffing might have been an option but I had a lot of obstacles to work around that wouldn't have lent themselves to power-buffing on that project.
> Floors also have a concern with slipperiness, and the method I chose to deal with this (regrettably) was to topcoat with a floor finish that would offer a bit more friction than the epoxy. That led to innumerable product problems, including more crap in the surface, etc. When I do this again, I will probably wet-sand the epoxy surface to 1000 or 2000 and see how it looks... and feels, when wet, in terms of neck-breaking potential.



Don't have a picture but had a customer do their countertop finished like that. Wet sanding to ~2000 grit leaves a dull satin finish. Pretty sure stonecoat has a video on them buffing to a lower sheen too.


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## juanvaldez (Sep 7, 2019)

Starting another bar top today for a local dive bar. 
I’ve been using the EX-88 on the last few but will be using the EX-74 product this time. 
I’ll get a few pics as the project moves along, if it goes well that is  


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## juanvaldez (Sep 7, 2019)

After hanging plastic, masking and general prep, I put a seal coat on today. Tomorrow, depending on today’s outcome, I’ll put a flood coat on and hopefully all will be good!


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## drybrush (Sep 1, 2011)

Whoa...you sprayed the EX-74?


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## juanvaldez (Sep 7, 2019)

No never! It’s way too thick. I applied the seal coat with a 6” spreader. 


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## drybrush (Sep 1, 2011)

OK, that makes sense. It looks like the place was masked to the ceiling! Maybe you were keeping the "dive-bar" out of your new work, though...


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## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

drybrush said:


> OK, that makes sense. It looks like the place was masked to the ceiling! Maybe you were keeping the "dive-bar" out of your new work, though...



I also wondered about the plastic. Seemed excessive, but I was guessing it was maybe about sanding and the dust.


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## juanvaldez (Sep 7, 2019)

Plastic helps to minimize the dust which really shows up on a finish like that. Looks like sparkly specks. It may seem overkill but I’ve seen what happens when not plastic off too. It helps to retain heat, which helps with cure. It keeps nosy people out of the area too, which keeps hands off. All good reasons to use plastic, ensuring a quality finish!


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## juanvaldez (Sep 7, 2019)

Just got the flood coat on and air bubbles dispersed. Coming out great so far! Crossing my fingers it cures well and no dust!











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## juanvaldez (Sep 7, 2019)

Ok whew! I can breathe now, lol. 
Got the top all finished and cleaned up. Happy with the final outcome










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## juanvaldez (Sep 7, 2019)

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## juanvaldez (Sep 7, 2019)

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## drybrush (Sep 1, 2011)

"Use a COASTER!" :biggrin:


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## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

drybrush said:


> "Use a COASTER!" :biggrin:



Looked to me like he wasn't putting it down anyway...


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## juanvaldez (Sep 7, 2019)

Yep still a bit to ‘fresh’ at that time. It had only been 24 hrs. Although do able, you risk scratching the surface if you don’t leave it alone for at least a few days. Cheers!


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