# Stix and Advance a winning combination.



## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Used stix for the first time on a whole house interior trim job. All the doors were solid 6 panel, stained and lacquered. The frames and base were a intricate profile with many grooves and detail. Prepped and sprayed doors in garage. Plastic, paper and plastic film on all walls furnititure, floors, etc. Two coats of Stix. It sands beautifully and allows for great adhesion of paint. Two coats Advance. Excellent results.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

Zoomer said:


> Used stix for the first time on a whole house interior trim job. All the doors were solid 6 panel, stained and lacquered. The frames and base were a intricate profile with many grooves and detail. Prepped and sprayed doors in garage. Plastic, paper and plastic film on all walls furnititure, floors, etc. Two coats of Stix. It sands beautifully and allows for great adhesion of paint. Two coats Advance. Excellent results.


Yes, I have used the same combination and works great. XIM UMA works very well also.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

I do like xim. It is what we have been using for the past year. The stix seemed to dry faster,cure harder and sand smoother.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

I've also been a fan of Stix for the last couple of years. I used to primarily use Cover Stain as a bonding primer but as soon as I tried the Stix I found my new love.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Stix oil or WB?


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> I've also been a fan of Stix for the last couple of years. I used to primarily use Cover Stain as a bonding primer but as soon as I tried the Stix I found my new love.


Do you spray stix with the FinishPro or just the top coat?


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

DeanV said:


> Stix oil or WB?


I'm sure is the WB. I never seen the oil version around here.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

DeanV said:


> Stix oil or WB?


It's a great water bourn bonding primer. No stain blocking properties, but if all you need is a great bond without the fumes I'd check it out.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> Do you spray stix with the FinishPro or just the top coat?


It sprays very nicely with the finish pro. :yes:


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## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> It sprays very nicely with the finish pro. :yes:


I concur and sands pretty good as well!


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

If only it had good stain blocking as well. Someday. 

Plenty of great sanding WB primers now. I have moved to WB lacquer primers for a lot of new work (MDF and poplar, etc). Not confident enough for going over existing finishes at this point. In limited testing so far, it has worked and they do have some stain blocking properties.


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## Red Truck (Feb 10, 2013)

We refinish a lot of cabinets with stix followed by advance. I agree - great results and a hard finish.

We had some alkyd stix, but havent seen it in awhile... On certain woods and wood paneling you still need that oil


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

DeanV said:


> If only it had good stain blocking as well. Someday.
> 
> Plenty of great sanding WB primers now. I have moved to WB lacquer primers for a lot of new work (MDF and poplar, etc). Not confident enough for going over existing finishes at this point. In limited testing so far, it has worked and they do have some stain blocking properties.


Fresh start high build will do what you want. #046-00. Stix is great for previously painted or poly'd doors and trim.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Just saw stix on the shelf at the local BM for the first time the other day. This part of the south is a little behind on the WB switch. They are still integrating the WB tints in there systems. There is even still some of the old satin impervo on the shelf there.

A WB bonding primer that actually works: sweet:


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

Stix works all right. You will come to believe. :thumbup:


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Zoomer said:


> Used stix for the first time on a whole house interior trim job. All the doors were solid 6 panel, stained and lacquered. The frames and base were a intricate profile with many grooves and detail. Prepped and sprayed doors in garage. Plastic, paper and plastic film on all walls furnititure, floors, etc. Two coats of Stix. It sands beautifully and allows for great adhesion of paint. Two coats Advance. Excellent results.


 
why 2 coats?


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

chrisn said:


> why 2 coats?


I think I can answer this - stix has lousy hide. 2 coats has the same hide as one coat of coverstain. But I do agree going over high gloss poly, varnish, etc it is the nuts.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

NCPaint1 said:


> Fresh start high build will do what you want. #046-00. Stix is great for previously painted or poly'd doors and trim.


I've been using a lot of 046 lately. Great addhesion, stain blocking, covering, and leveling. Not very good sanding though. If BM could make 046 more sandable, then it would be the awesome.


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

plainpainter said:


> I think I can answer this - stix has lousy hide. 2 coats has the same hide as one coat of coverstain. But I do agree going over high gloss poly, varnish, etc it is the nuts.



Primers aren't for hide. Thats what paints do..


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> Not very good sanding though. If BM could make 046 more sandable, then it would be the awesome.


I thought it sanded great. You just can't sand it too quickly or its no good. Did my raw pine trim and it sanded great.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

DeanV said:


> If only it had good stain blocking as well. Someday.
> 
> Plenty of great sanding WB primers now. I have moved to WB lacquer primers for a lot of new work (MDF and poplar, etc). Not confident enough for going over existing finishes at this point. In limited testing so far, it has worked and they do have some stain blocking properties.


I have had really good results in our testing so far with using it over other finishes. Adhesion as been stellar over properly cleaned and deglossed surfaces.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> I've also been a fan of Stix for the last couple of years. I used to primarily use Cover Stain as a bonding primer but as soon as I tried the Stix I found my new love.


Agreed


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

chrisn said:


> why 2 coats?


For every crack and crevice missed on the first pass.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

NCPaint1 said:


> I thought it sanded great. You just can't sand it too quickly or its no good. Did my raw pine trim and it sanded great.


Thats a good measure of sandability of a product, raw pine


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

straight_lines said:


> I have had really good results in our testing so far with using it over other finishes. Adhesion as been stellar over properly cleaned and deglossed surfaces.


So far, I would agree with this. I did find the WB lacquer primers do take a long time to dry over sealed surfaces that they cannot penetrate. Adhesion seems good so far. Apply thin for first coat. Really thin as it likes to run over lacquer or poly stuff. Sanding is very nice though. Seems to block some tannins on oak, which most WB primers I have used will not block.

What concerns me a bit is the directions to strip old finishes that most of these products have.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

DeanV said:


> What concerns me a bit is the directions to strip old finishes that most of these products have.


That way so they won't be on the hook for failures, pretty much all good cabinet coatings do this. I have seen it soften cheap latex enamel on a repaint. We let it dry overnight and everything sanded down smooth and had a great bond still.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

BrushJockey said:


> Primers aren't for hide. Thats what paints do..


Well, I think a lot of painters would disagree - lots of us use Coverstain for instance because it has such great hiding potential. Whenever I use a product for priming that has zilcho hiding ability - I end up putting 3,4+ coats of paint to achieve hide/coverage.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

DeanV said:


> So far, I would agree with this. I did find the WB lacquer primers do take a long time to dry over sealed surfaces that they cannot penetrate. Adhesion seems good so far. Apply thin for first coat. Really thin as it likes to run over lacquer or poly stuff. Sanding is very nice though. Seems to block some tannins on oak, which most WB primers I have used will not block.
> 
> What concerns me a bit is the directions to strip old finishes that most of these products have.


Dean, just curious - if you are going to sand, why would you use a product like stix? I'd rather use a more traditional primer like coverstain - or if I was staying with waterborne, something with better hide.


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

plainpainter said:


> Well, I think a lot of painters would disagree - lots of us use Coverstain for instance because it has such great hiding potential. Whenever I use a product for priming that has zilcho hiding ability - I end up putting 3,4+ coats of paint to achieve hide/coverage.


Use better paint. It will always cover better than a primer.
And I use lots of primers that have much more than zilcho coverage- but none of them have as good as a quality paint.

You can do 2-3 coats of primer , or 1 primer 2 finish. 

So once a primer has done what it was supposed to do ( in this case get adhesion) then- on to something that does coverage- a good paint.

This is the kind of thing discussed on the DIY forum. 
Primer primes. Paint covers.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

BrushJockey said:


> Use better paint. It will always cover better than a primer.
> And I use lots of primers that have much more than zilcho coverage- but none of them have as good as a quality paint.
> 
> You can do 2-3 coats of primer , or 1 primer 2 finish.
> ...


A good paint only covers in two coats in conjunction with a good primer. I have first hand experience with Benjamin Moore Advance in semigloss over old varnished trim with Stix - it just barely covered on the 2nd coat and was real close contender for a 3rd coat. I have many instances of a good waterborne primer on bare wood allowing good coverage with only one coat of paint. Heck I remember priming wall panelling and bare wood with XIM years ago - and P&L semigloss, two coats, looked 95% on the trim, not 100%. I usually get 95% with a coat of coverstain and one coat of paint of P&L accolade.


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

No doubt you love your coverstain. In the occupied homes I work in, I almost never am "appreciated" for using the stink.
To each their own.


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## South-FL-Painter (Jan 17, 2012)

Folks,


How does Stix and advance work over DTM previously painted metal?I have few private entrance elevator doors to paint and was wondering if anybody did this combo?how well stix grabs oil dtm?


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

BrushJockey said:


> No doubt you love your coverstain. In the occupied homes I work in, I almost never am "appreciated" for using the stink.
> To each their own.


Agree. 
Pretty tough look from our young painters too, like:
- Why do I need to get a headache?
- Why is this a good career choice again?
Actually, from the same company, the new Aqualock has great adhesion 
and hides previous colours and stains really well. 
Likely not all stains I suppose.


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

Sharp_Painting said:


> Folks,
> 
> 
> How does Stix and advance work over DTM previously painted metal?I have few private entrance elevator doors to paint and was wondering if anybody did this combo?how well stix grabs oil dtm?


We used Stix over the sleekest ever surface, a food service refrigerator unit.
We washed surfaces well obviously, but that's it!
B. Moore DTM gloss over it.
Still holding up 3 years later.


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## South-FL-Painter (Jan 17, 2012)

George Z said:


> We used Stix over the sleekest ever surface, a food service refrigerator unit.
> We washed surfaces well obviously, but that's it!
> B. Moore DTM gloss over it.
> Still holding up 3 years later.


I dont think you understand my question.

I was asking how well does the Stix work over oil DTM,eith finish coat of BM advance.

Maybe I didnt understand your answer?
Did you say you used stix and then top coated with DTM?Why did you use stix if you go dtm over dtm?


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

George Z said:


> We used Stix over the sleekest ever surface, a food service refrigerator unit.
> We washed surfaces well obviously, but that's it!
> B. Moore DTM gloss over it.
> Still holding up 3 years later.


Whoa! 3 years? Awesome.


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

Sharp_Painting said:


> I dont think you understand my question.
> 
> I was asking how well does the Stix work over oil DTM,eith finish coat of BM advance.
> 
> ...


I did understand. It was over a factory very sleek coating way more difficult to adhere than anything else. There was no Advance available then.
Not exactly what you are asking, just my experience.


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## alan (Feb 17, 2010)

DeanV said:


> Stix oil or WB?


 from my understanding its urethane based and water clean up. I use it as a first coat over pvc/composite boards. also when I do change overs


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Before and after with stix and advance


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)




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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Nice work Zoomer! How did you get the room to turn upside down, and did that help with runs?

Also, what setup did you use for the trim work? 3-10? Straight out of the bucket?

Thanks


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Zoomer, that's one hell of a mask and paint job. Kudos to you sir! :thumbsup:


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

Very nice. That's alot of masking. Did you just do the enamel work or walls too?


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

MikeCalifornia said:


> Very nice. That's alot of masking. Did you just do the enamel work or walls too?


We painted the walls in the entire house last fall. A lot of masking, 3 men 1 day for this door and trim job.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Damon T said:


> Nice work Zoomer! How did you get the room to turn upside down, and did that help with runs?
> 
> Also, what setup did you use for the trim work? 3-10? Straight out of the bucket?
> 
> Thanks


Lmao good one! We used our graco 490, low pressure. Graco 312 ff for spraying the stix and 210 ff for advance. We did not thin the advance. Straight out of can. Beautiful results.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Zoomer said:


> We painted the walls in the entire house last fall. A lot of masking, 3 men 1 day for this door and trim job.


That's some serious production! You must not have had a lot of prep to do, as in sanding, spackling, etc.?


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Damon T said:


> That's some serious production! You must not have had a lot of prep to do, as in sanding, spackling, etc.?


Yes indeed, but the end result was worth it and it was more efficient than priming and painting by brush.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Zoomer said:


> View attachment 15978
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow Zoomer! You really turned that place upside down!:yes::thumbsup:


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

I take it they weren't home..
Great job, but that's pretty much exactly why I don't spray. Shuts down the home.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Zoomer said:


> Used stix for the first time on a whole house interior trim job. All the doors were solid 6 panel, stained and lacquered. The frames and base were a intricate profile with many grooves and detail. Prepped and sprayed doors in garage. Plastic, paper and plastic film on all walls furnititure, floors, etc. Two coats of Stix. It sands beautifully and allows for great adhesion of paint. Two coats Advance. Excellent results.


 Stix them in advance!:whistling2:


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

BrushJockey said:


> I take it they weren't home..
> Great job, but that's pretty much exactly why I don't spray. Shuts down the home.


 I think BrushJockey sounds better than SprayJockey!


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

mudbone said:


> Wow Zoomer! You really turned that place upside down!:yes::thumbsup:


Good one. They lived in the walkout basement for three days until completion. Project took 4 days. Day one was caulk and prep as well as set up garage for doors. Day two prime. Day 3 sand and paint. Day 4 put on hardware, pull off all paper and plastic, sweep and dust. Complete.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Zoomer said:


> Good one. They lived in the walkout basement for three days until completion. Project took 4 days. Day one was caulk and prep as well as set up garage for doors. Day two prime. Day 3 sand and paint. Day 4 put on hardware, pull off all paper and plastic, sweep and dust. Complete.


 That's why your called Zoomer!:yes:


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## alanbarrington (Apr 30, 2013)

mudbone said:


> That's why your called Zoomer!:yes:


Good for you man that why they call us professinails.thats the bottom line

Sent from my iPhone using PaintTalk


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

alanbarrington said:


> Good for you man that why they call us professinails.thats the bottom line
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PaintTalk


Smh....


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

So we're doing an entryway right now and I think we made things harder than needed. Going over old oil satin impervo, we sanded everything thoroughly, some 120, a lot with 180. Next we spackled (and bondo'd the big chunks the dogs had chewed) and now have to sand all the spackle. There was a ton of little spackle spots, we tinted it blue to make it easier to find. Used Ready Patch which doesn't sand easy but sands smooth and sticks good. 
Anyways, was thinking after all the spackle was applied and we had a lot more sanding to do, that it would have been easier to only sand once. But I wanted to make sure the spackle would stick well to the old paint. Is this stupid or smart? I might not have thought twice but they did a ton of spackling. 
Next step we will spray Stix, possibly two coats, let dry overnight (or over weekend if we shoot tomorrow) sand with 220-240 and shoot the Advance. 





























Photos of work in prep stage fwiw. 
Thanks for any useful replies on order of ops etc.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

Damon T said:


> So we're doing an entryway right now and I think we made things harder than needed. Going over old oil satin impervo, we sanded everything thoroughly, some 120, a lot with 180. Next we spackled (and bondo'd the big chunks the dogs had chewed) and now have to sand all the spackle. There was a ton of little spackle spots, we tinted it blue to make it easier to find. Used Ready Patch which doesn't sand easy but sands smooth and sticks good.
> Anyways, was thinking after all the spackle was applied and we had a lot more sanding to do, that it would have been easier to only sand once. But I wanted to make sure the spackle would stick well to the old paint. Is this stupid or smart? I might not have thought twice but they did a ton of spackling.
> Next step we will spray Stix, possibly two coats, let dry overnight (or over weekend if we shoot tomorrow) sand with 220-240 and shoot the Advance.
> 
> ...


I did something similar a few months back. Instead of use stix I went with BM Superior Primer followed by 2 coats of BM Advance. I didn't tint the spackle. 

Looks good I hope you can post some pics when its done.

Btw I received your email, Thanks


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> I did something similar a few months back. Instead of use stix I went with BM Superior Primer followed by 2 coats of BM Advance. I didn't tint the spackle.
> 
> Looks good I hope you can post some pics when its done.
> 
> Btw I received your email, Thanks


I like that Superior primer a lot too. I think the guys went a little heavy with the tint in the spackle. It had some trouble covering today. Also when we were spraying the doors the primer acted different over the spackle, will have to see how it looks when dry. We shot the doors flat on the door deckers, my first time using them. They layed it on pretty heavy, so good thing we have the weekend to let it cure hard to sand.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Imo you prepped properly. A customer never complains about too much prepping but about a lousy paint job because of not prepping enough.


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## tequilua (Sep 16, 2012)

I'm confused guys, i really love Stix, it's bonding like hell, but do you sand or degloss previosly stained + poly wood or Stix usually do all this work for you? Im in front of painting all house varnished trim.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

tequilua said:


> I'm confused guys, i really love Stix, it's bonding like hell, but do you sand or degloss previosly stained + poly wood or Stix usually do all this work for you? Im in front of painting all house varnished trim.


I have never heard that Stix does sanding or deglossing for painters. I usually do all of that.


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## Tonyg (Dec 9, 2007)

The last couple of cabinet jobs I did I used coverstain with Aura finish. Turned out great and was able to get the satin sheen desired. Haven't used the Advance yet, though I'm definitely, I'm open to trying the Advance instead for the harder finish. 

I have an estimate to do this weekend. Is the Advance going to be that much more superior?


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

Tonyg said:


> The last couple of cabinet jobs I did I used coverstain with Aura finish. Turned out great and was able to get the satin sheen desired. Haven't used the Advance yet, though I'm definitely, I'm open to trying the Advance instead for the harder finish.
> 
> I have an estimate to do this weekend. Is the Advance going to be that much more superior?


I've never used Aura for cabinets. But I like Advance a lot.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

I did my kitchen cabinets with Aura satin several years ago. Sprayed. Have held up really well. Many kids and messes. Have scrubbed them to clean and still look good. Had to touch up a couple areas beneath the sink, a typical problem area due to water, and touched up really well. 

Regarding the Stix and prep, they still suggest sanding with 220. And always clean cabinets really well before sanding to avoid grinding dirt and grease into the substrate. 

I have been told by my rep that in order from hardest to less hardest, Advance, Cabinet Coat, and then Latex Satin Impervo. Didn't ask about Aura.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> Fresh start high build will do what you want. #046-00. Stix is great for previously painted or poly'd doors and trim.


I may have to try the 046 on our next cab job. We sanded a bunch of lacquered cabinet doors, and where it burned through the finish into the wood we got tannin bleed with Stix. I think they're cherry doors, not sure, but they did bleed into the primer. Wasn't sure if a 2nd coat would block it or not. 
Decided to 2nd prime with BIN. Did a little today and remembered how nice it sprays. #3 setup on hvlp. Sweet. 
Come to think of it, if at all possible I think I'll just use BIN on the next cab job too.


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## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

Damon T said:


> I did my kitchen cabinets with Aura satin several years ago. Sprayed. Have held up really well. Many kids and messes. Have scrubbed them to clean and still look good. Had to touch up a couple areas beneath the sink, a typical problem area due to water, and touched up really well.
> 
> Regarding the Stix and prep, they still suggest sanding with 220. And always clean cabinets really well before sanding to avoid grinding dirt and grease into the substrate.
> 
> I have been told by my rep that in order from hardest to less hardest, Advance, Cabinet Coat, and then Latex Satin Impervo. Didn't ask about Aura.


Damon we ave send Aura semi on cabinets and trim holds up well very shiny ....Satin on trim don't see that much here unless was oil.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Lots of satin on trim out here. Cabs too. Thanks for the heads up.


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