# which brand bonding primer?



## GettyGal (Nov 15, 2017)

I am painting ceramic bathroom wall tiles. I've cleaned, sanded and wiped them. Ready for bonding primer. I have access to sherwin williams, lowes and whatever they have at walmart. Any recommendations?

I'd also like to use it on old, dark kitchen cabinets. I sanded those too and wiped with liquid sandpaper. Should I use BIN before or after the bonding primer or not at all? 

Suggestions? 
Thank you very much


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Nothing any one of those companies sells an actual "good" bonding primer. What they sell is marginally better than using an all purpose primer. All of the products they sell are cheapened versions of primers that have been around for years that have been made cheaper and cheaper through the years so they can keep selling them at a low retail price through the box stores. Even SW. They are in effect selling on the reputation of products that at one point were good primers but aren't anymore. Bullseye 123 being a perfect example. 20 years ago it would stick like crazy to a scuffed wall tile. Now you can scrape it off with your finger nail. BUT, it is priced the same as it was 20 years ago. Name ONE other product type that is sold today at the same price it was 20 years ago! It can be dome pretty easily with paint and primers. Just add chalk and water.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Wondering if you are able to use an oil primer in your situation? If so, Zinsser's cover stain comes to mind, but it's really gonna stink the place out pretty badly.

INSL-X makes a primer called Stix, which many one hear have used with great success. However, it doesn't appear to be sold at the stores you mentioned.

Xim UMA is another one I've seen mentioned several times, but again not sold in your available stores.

I don't share the same opinion as PAC does about Bullseye 123 and I still use it a lot. However, on kitchen cabinets it might be better to go with an oil primer.

When I started painting I paid $26/gal for Bull. Now it's an even $40. That's quite a change in price. Just sayin'.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Wildbill7145 said:


> INSL-X makes a primer called Stix, which many one hear have used with great success. However, it doesn't appear to be sold at the stores you mentioned.


How do you guys apply stix? It is really thick like glue.

That said stix does have really good adhesion after a few days and dries super hard.

in the TDS it specs the viscosity as 70 – 80 KU but I do not see how that could be accurate.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

I had no idea that Stix was made by BM. Interesting.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Wondering if you are able to use an oil primer in your situation? If so, Zinsser's cover stain comes to mind, but it's really gonna stink the place out pretty badly.
> 
> INSL-X makes a primer called Stix, which many one hear have used with great success. However, it doesn't appear to be sold at the stores you mentioned.
> 
> ...


No. I just checked the retail price on BULLSEYE 123 at three box stores and it was between $15.97 and $17.99 at them. This product was sold pretty much everywhere for $15.99 20 years ago.

Stix and UMA are much better products. I have done controlled adhesion tests on all of them. 123 is much, much less of a product then it was 20 years ago.

and don't forget that the Canadian dollar is weak against the US dollar right now.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Let's try and keep in mind that we're trying to find the best option available to the OP given what's available to them.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

PACman said:


> No. I just checked the retail price on BULLSEYE 123 at three box stores and it was between $15.97 and $17.99 at them. This product was sold pretty much everywhere for $15.99 20 years ago.
> 
> Stix and UMA are much better products. I have done controlled adhesion tests on all of them. 123 is much, much less of a product then it was 20 years ago.
> 
> and don't forget that the Canadian dollar is weak against the US dollar right now.


My 1-2-3 msrp is 30.95, similar to 3M tape I can get it cheaper through the box store than ordering direct from zinnser:sad:


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Wildbill7145 said:


> I had no idea that Stix was made by BM. Interesting.


Inslx, Coronado, Corotech, Lenmar all manufactured by BM


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Please consider doing an intro of yourself and your business in the Introductions sub forum.

BTW, I like UMA bonding primer from XIM but don't know if you can get that from any of the sources you mentioned.


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## kerryman71 (Oct 9, 2017)

I'd go with the Inslx Stix. You can probably buy it online if you don't have a store that carries Benjamin Moore nearby.

I've used their other primers, and do know of someone who used the Stix for the exact purpose you mention with great success.

John


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> My 1-2-3 msrp is 30.95, similar to 3M tape I can get it cheaper through the box store than ordering direct from zinnser:sad:


That's why most independent stores don't carry it! I can get it cheaper at Menard's than i can through my sundry wholesaler!


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## asthma76 (Apr 18, 2009)

I?d say BIN or cover stain. I?m not a huge fan of SW bonding primers. Oil or latex. Ive been using Zinsser Zero a lot. I really like it. Great bonding low VOC.


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## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

Use xim etching cream. You put it on and remove it. you can keep using it too so it does not wear out. It will dull/etch the tile and make it porous. Still use a bonding primer but this will make it much better.


https://www.amazon.com/XIM-44082-Et...8&qid=1510781534&sr=8-1&keywords=xim+etch-i-m


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## GettyGal (Nov 15, 2017)

*Thanks everyone*

I'm going to find the Stix or IXM and drive wherever I need to go to get it. I've used Zissner products and I find that the final paint has trouble sticking to it. 

I would use the IXM etching cream next time but I've already sanded the tiles.


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## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

Are they sanded dull? If they are I commend you but I would not risk it without etching but to each their own.


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## kerryman71 (Oct 9, 2017)

GettyGal said:


> I'm going to find the Stix or IXM and drive wherever I need to go to get it. I've used Zissner products and I find that the final paint has trouble sticking to it.
> 
> I would use the IXM etching cream next time but I've already sanded the tiles.


As was mentioned, Inslx is a Benjamin Moore company. I buy mine from an independent BM retailer, however, a lot of independent building supply companies around me, as well as Ace Hardware, also carry BM. If you go to the Inslx site, you can type in your zip code and it will bring up retailers near you that sell it.

John


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Yup my local Ace carries Inslx products, CabinetCoat and Stix but not any BM. Not sure if they are ordering from BM or getting it through their own supply chain.

Still I got to ask for the guys who have used Stix, what kind of applicator are you using? It levels OK but its so thick I can't imagine using a brush and you can't thin it.

CabinetCoat bit me in the butt again today. Not every color, even light colors, are available in CC. Tried HC-143 after customer said they want to try it. no formula available for this color :|


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

As far as your dark cabinets go, BIN is the bonding primer. I use BIN first, then an undercoater to give it build.


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## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

I don't find stix thick at all. Sprays well. Sands decent for a non undercoat. Doesn't really hide and doesn't stop bleeding. 




cocomonkeynuts said:


> How do you guys apply stix? It is really thick like glue.
> 
> That said stix does have really good adhesion after a few days and dries super hard.
> 
> in the TDS it specs the viscosity as 70 &#8211; 80 KU but I do not see how that could be accurate.


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## Sully (May 25, 2011)

I'm a big fan of Stix. Great product! That being said I had a commercial job speced for Sherwin Williams. The rep introduced me to their extreme bond primer. I brushed out a super thin coat on exterior ground level tiles that I sanded and wiped with a tack cloth. Beautiful adhesion. Should do the trick for you.


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## Sully (May 25, 2011)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Yup my local Ace carries Inslx products, CabinetCoat and Stix but not any BM. Not sure if they are ordering from BM or getting it through their own supply chain.
> 
> Still I got to ask for the guys who have used Stix, what kind of applicator are you using? It levels OK but its so thick I can't imagine using a brush and you can't thin it.
> 
> CabinetCoat bit me in the butt again today. Not every color, even light colors, are available in CC. Tried HC-143 after customer said they want to try it. no formula available for this color :|


I had that problem using a color called city shadow. Only supposed to be made in aura. Had the guys push it and make it in Advance satin. Worked like a charm.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Sully said:


> I had that problem using a color called city shadow. Only supposed to be made in aura. Had the guys push it and make it in Advance satin. Worked like a charm.


That is a CSP color, the color changing collection and indeed these formula are only available in aura, not even supposed to share the formula's with you. You can use the spectrophometermeter to approximate them but it won't be the same color or even close because of the colorants used. All the light HC colors should be available in cabinet coat (but apparently are not), and I could probably match it by eye, but I like to stick with official colors when possible.


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## jr.sr. painting (Dec 6, 2013)

I have used both stix and coverstain for priming ceramic. Different jobs both outdated kitchen backsplashes but washed with a good degreaser and rinsed well and allowed to dry. Top coated both times with satin impervo. The stix failed in less than a year and coverstain has held strong for over 6 years. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

My vote goes to XIM Peel Bond and Sherwin's Extreme Bond Primer. Both good things. 

On tile however, I'd just pass on it. Probably need an epoxy base and an epoxy top coat to really hold up, all solvent based stuff. Yucks. 

Good luck on your efforts.


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## CK_68847 (Apr 17, 2010)

The bin oil is by far the best choice of any product. It’s the best stain blocker and bonding primer. Xim will bond as well, but won’t give you near the stain blocking capability.


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## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

Bonding and stainblocking 2 completely different th8ngs. We just used 3 different bonding primers on a job. You would never guess which one came in first for us not the one we expected &#55357;&#56904;


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