# Prime over wet mud??



## fauxlynn

Hey guys, I need an absolute answer to these questions. Let me preface this with the circumstances. Remember not too long ago I did that job in New Hampshire where the GC kept screwing up and partly blamed me? Well, I think he finally convinced the HO that he was right, because she wants to re-negotiate the final payment.

Is it a reasonable thing for a painter or GC to put primer over not quite dry mud and expect it be A-OK after the 30 day cure time? As in-not lift off- if, say a faux painter puts tape on the wall.(orange core blue). OR, will there always be an issue?

I contend that all bets are off on the integrity of the paint job, he says it is my fault for not waiting.(BTW- I had no prior knowledge of the mud being not quite dry.It felt dry to me.) I asked my guy at the paint store and he agrees with the GC. Am I wrong?


----------



## NCPaint1

Why would anyone prime over wet mud? Do they not sand where you are? You can't sand mud that's wet, believe me, I've tried. Its not pretty.


----------



## cdaniels

I really can't help as I have never painted or primed over wet mud in my life.


----------



## RH

I can't even see how you could. Someone might possibly push it a bit and try priming it before it's totally ready but not actually paint over it while wet.


----------



## fauxlynn

NCPaint1 said:


> Why would anyone prime over wet mud? Do they not sand where you are? You can't sand mud that's wet, believe me, I've tried. Its not pretty.


Funny you say that- he did not sand it because it was going to be behind the mirror.


----------



## fauxlynn

RH said:


> I can't even see how you could. Someone might possibly push it a bit and priming before it's totally ready but not actually paint over it while wet.


Well it seemed like it was dry on the surface. But he kept trying to fix it and then add more mud. All I know is it felt dry when I base coated it. Later he asked the homeowner if I had trouble with the wall because he didn't let things dry all the way. Now he is back pedaling.


----------



## RH

fauxlynn said:


> Well it seemed like it was dry on the surface. But he kept trying to fix it and then add more mud. All I know is it felt dry when I base coated it. Later he asked the homeowner if I had trouble with the wall because he didn't let things dry all the way. Now he is back pedaling.


Did it lift on you as you were attempting to prime?


----------



## fauxlynn

RH said:


> Did it lift on you as you were attempting to prime?


No, I didn't prime .I saw him prime it. He told me it was ready to go. I even put blue tape on several areas and pulled, nothing came off. I waited one day. Painted 1 coat, waited until the next day to do second coat in the am, took about an hour. Waited until the next day to put tape on for stripes. It only peeled off where he married the new sheetrock on the bottom to the old stuff on top


----------



## Oden

Paint over not quite dry mud? 

I do it here and there. Did it today actually. Usually patches and making deadlines. Painter is the last one on the job and GC's just don't get that or care to get it. well, if ur on a job and it is ur last day on that job then no taper should be there unless he is there to sand only. duh.

as to the real point of the OP although it sounds to be too late. Deny. Deny. Deny.


----------



## chrisn

Can I ask what was used for primer? It still is wrong to go over un cured mud, but a coat of Gardz MIGHT have prevented what happened to you, maybe


----------



## fauxlynn

chrisn said:


> Can I ask what was used for primer? It still is wrong to go over un cured mud, but a coat of Gardz MIGHT have prevented what happened to you, maybe


Zinser 123, he left the can in the garage


----------



## Hines Painting

what exactly is the problem?

If he primed over wet mud I don't see how that could be your problem?

If the problem was the tape pulling off paint- how far back did it go? If it pulled the primer off of the mud, again, I don't see how that's your fault or problem. If it pulled the paint off of the primer then that is your problem.


----------



## fauxlynn

Hines Painting said:


> what exactly is the problem?
> 
> If he primed over wet mud I don't see how that could be your problem?
> 
> If the problem was the tape pulling off paint- how far back did it go? If it pulled the primer off of the mud, again, I don't see how that's your fault or problem. If it pulled the paint off of the primer then that is your problem.


Money- that's the issue here.It went all the way back to the sheetrock or whatever it's called. Well, he convinced the home owner that it is not a big deal and it was my fault for not waiting 30 days,he told her it was acceptable practice. So she is trying to re -negotiate my final payment. Which you know what? If something is my fault, I accept that and I fix it. I told her it wouldn't matter how long I waited. The wall would be fine if nobody ever put tape on it. If I waited six months, wouldn't the tape pull off those areas?


----------



## SemiproJohn

fauxlynn said:


> Money- that's the issue here.It went all the way back to the sheetrock or whatever it's called. Well, he convinced the home owner that it is not a big deal and it was my fault for not waiting 30 days,he told her it was acceptable practice. So she is trying to re -negotiate my final payment. Which you know what? If something is my fault, I accept that and I fix it. I told her it wouldn't matter how long I waited. The wall would be fine if nobody ever put tape on it. If I waited six months, wouldn't the tape pull off those areas?


I'm not a professional drywall finisher, but from what I've been reading it sounds to me like the GC didn't know what the f... he was doing. He probably didn't remove all the dust off the wall after sanding the joint compound, and therefore the zinzer didn't really adhere in the first place. He could have used mesh drywall tape rather than paper. Mesh doesn't do nearly as good a job sealing seams/joints. There is a much greater chance any slight expansion or contraction in the wall due to temperature change or settling will "expose the top or bottom of the joint tape used, or expose crappy joint compound work. I know from personal experience and have learned to take my time when doing any drywall work prior to painting. Under ordinary circumstances, there is no need to wait 30 freaking days to paint over sanded and cleaned joint compound.


----------



## Oden

fauxlynn said:


> Money- that's the issue here.It went all the way back to the sheetrock or whatever it's called. Well, he convinced the home owner that it is not a big deal and it was my fault for not waiting 30 days,he told her it was acceptable practice. So she is trying to re -negotiate my final payment. Which you know what? If something is my fault, I accept that and I fix it. I told her it wouldn't matter how long I waited. The wall would be fine if nobody ever put tape on it. If I waited six months, wouldn't the tape pull off those areas?


I thought you were the one painting over the wet mud but ur the one having problems with the tape. I put on and pull off tape the next day after painting a wall. working on a long stripe at a store right now. No problems with that. I'm using the blue tape but I much prefer the easey mask. I'm careful to make it seal but not push down too hard and only push down a bit to seal the 'money' side, certainly not the whole 2 inches of surface of the tape. just the side that is getting work put to it. and when I pull it off I get it going to 180 degrees.


----------



## Epoxy Pro

I have heard many times wait 30 days before painting new compound, I have never waited 30 days, I skim coated a room, had my shop lights set up forcing the compound to dry faster and primed it the next day. We have been in and out of the house a bunch of times this year and there is no signs of the paint failing, Yes we did put tape on the walls and none peeled the paint off.
Who is this GC in New Hampshire I want to make sure I don't run into him.


----------



## fauxlynn

cdpainting said:


> Who is this GC in New Hampshire I want to make sure I don't run into him.


He is in Manchester. If you really want his name, I will pm you.


----------



## slinger58

fauxlynn said:


> Money- that's the issue here.It went all the way back to the sheetrock or whatever it's called. Well, he convinced the home owner that it is not a big deal and it was my fault for not waiting 30 days,he told her it was acceptable practice. So she is trying to re -negotiate my final payment. Which you know what? If something is my fault, I accept that and I fix it. I told her it wouldn't matter how long I waited. The wall would be fine if nobody ever put tape on it. If I waited six months, wouldn't the tape pull off those areas?


Sounds like your dealing with a con -artist instead of a GC. 30 days to paint over joint compound? Bullchit. This is the kind of crap that comes up when wannabe GC's try to rush things at the end. Maybe his drywall finisher used some 20 minute quick set that was too dry when he put it on. Or maybe any number of factors that you aren't aware of. If he primed it and said it was ready to go, then this is on him. 
As for the paint store person who agreed with the GC, I'd have to have a word with him.


----------



## Bender

How long was the tape on?


----------



## straight_lines

Simple ask the builder how will the water in the mud evaporate once its sealed with primer and paint? It can't without lifting the coating.


----------



## mudbone

The mud can feel and look dry but if wasn't fully cured and he primed over it he could have trapped moisture in behind it.Isn't your bad. The finish product is only as good as the base that it covers!


----------



## Tonyg

Get an opinion from the Manufacturer. Email them the scenario (leaving out who did what or who's to blame) and ask what would happen and what would result. Zinsser tech support should be able to give you a definitive answer against priming over joint compound that has not thoroughly dried, what would result, and that will give you written documentation. If they still dispute that, offer to have the disagreement settled in court - now that you have the manufacturer's statement


----------



## slinger58

Tonyg said:


> Get an opinion from the Manufacturer. Email them the scenario (leaving out who did what or who's to blame) and ask what would happen and what would result. Zinsser tech support should be able to give you a definitive answer against priming over joint compound that has not thoroughly dried, what would result, and that will give you written documentation. If they still dispute that, offer to have the disagreement settled in court - now that you have the manufacturer's statement


Or you could resort to the old fashioned method. Arrange a meeting with the GC, the HO and yourself. Open the discussion by asking the GC about the steps he and his drywall finisher performed prior to handing this over to you and saying it was good to go. (Did I mention the 2' to 4' Wooster roller pole that you bring to the meeting? Sorry.) 
Anyway, whenever the GC tells a lie, hit him firmly in the mouth with the roller pole. Ask again and every time a lie rolls out of his mouth, hit him again. (BTW, did I mention taking your vitamins and getting a good nights sleep prior to this meeting?) This may take a while (especially with the older GC's) but eventually the truth will break free and for that small moment in time, the world will be right and you will be paid in full.
And then it's on to the next one. :thumbsup:


----------



## mudbone

slinger58 said:


> Or you could resort to the old fashioned method. Arrange a meeting with the GC, the HO and yourself. Open the discussion by asking the GC about the steps he and his drywall finisher performed prior to handing this over to you and saying it was good to go. (Did I mention the 2' to 4' Wooster roller pole that you bring to the meeting? Sorry.)
> Anyway, whenever the GC tells a lie, hit him firmly in the mouth with the roller pole. Ask again and every time a lie rolls out of his mouth, hit him again. (BTW, did I mention taking your vitamins and getting a good nights sleep prior to this meeting?) This may take a while (especially with the older GC's) but eventually the truth will break free and for that small moment in time, the world will be right and you will be paid in full.
> And then it's on to the next one. :thumbsup:


Ps.Don't forget the paint store dude!


----------



## slinger58

mudbone said:


> Ps.Don't forget the paint store dude!


Damn, I did forget that chithead! 
Well, a kick in the wobblies for the paint store dude and then you're done. :jester:


----------



## TJ Paint

What


----------



## Damon T

Waiting 30 days is plaster not joint compound. Nobody waits 30 days to paint new drywall. Check the PDCA standards on this situation. They have one for not taking the fall for accepting others work etc. the saying "you paint it you bought it" doesn't have to be the rule. Good luck!!


----------



## hotwing7

Aw Lynn I can't believe you're having to take the fallout for someone esles error.

He sounds like a smooth talker having been able to convince the homeowner. So now it's yout turn. Gather all your facts / specs / timelines and do as above - arrange a meeting with the three of them (I bet the GC won't want to turn up - oh and maybe leave the pole out of it).

Being fully prepared is half the battle.

If he won't attend - then you need to bring the ho round to your way of thinking - ie the rght way. Good luck wth it.


----------



## chrisn

straight_lines said:


> Simple ask the builder how will the water in the mud evaporate once its sealed with primer and paint? It can't without lifting the coating.


 
and there you have the answer:thumbsup:


----------



## Epoxy Pro

fauxlynn said:


> He is in Manchester. If you really want his name, I will pm you.


If you don't mind, I know way to many shady contractors around here. Any heads up on others is appreciated.


----------



## CApainter

You would probably need evidence to prove that the drywall compound was still moist when the GC applied the Z-123 Primer, given that the TDS specifies the substrate should not exceed 12% moisture content.


----------



## fauxlynn

Bender said:


> How long was the tape on?


in my test-5 seconds
fauxing the wall-15 mins. I did it in sections


----------



## fauxlynn

Tonyg said:


> Get an opinion from the Manufacturer. Email them the scenario (leaving out who did what or who's to blame) and ask what would happen and what would result. Zinsser tech support should be able to give you a definitive answer against priming over joint compound that has not thoroughly dried, what would result, and that will give you written documentation. If they still dispute that, offer to have the disagreement settled in court - now that you have the manufacturer's statement


This is brilliant.




slinger58 said:


> Or you could resort to the old fashioned method. Arrange a meeting with the GC, the HO and yourself. Open the discussion by asking the GC about the steps he and his drywall finisher performed prior to handing this over to you and saying it was good to go. (Did I mention the 2' to 4' Wooster roller pole that you bring to the meeting? Sorry.)
> Anyway, whenever the GC tells a lie, hit him firmly in the mouth with the roller pole. Ask again and every time a lie rolls out of his mouth, hit him again. (BTW, did I mention taking your vitamins and getting a good nights sleep prior to this meeting?) This may take a while (especially with the older GC's) but eventually the truth will break free and for that small moment in time, the world will be right and you will be paid in full.
> And then it's on to the next one. :thumbsup:


Hahahahaha. He already told the HO that it might have still been wet. And that he told me to wait because it was still wet. She and I have already discussed this.



mudbone said:


> Ps.Don't forget the paint store dude!


Yeah, I would like to slap him.



CApainter said:


> You would probably need evidence to prove that the drywall compound was still moist when the GC applied the Z-123 Primer, given that the TDS specifies the substrate should not exceed 12% moisture content.


See above

I have to talk to her today. Part of what is messing this up is this job was for her 89 yr. old mother who lives about 4 blocks away from the contractor. He has intimidated her and she is scared and lives alone. I was dealing with the daughter, long time customer.So, a tense situation between mom and daughter.

I just figured if I was wrong, I would let it go.But now I don't think I did anything wrong.


----------



## Bender

Zinsser is a terrible choice for bare drywall. 

I would be curious to see if it pulls off of the sheetrock as well as the mud.


----------



## IHATE_HOMEDEPOT

I would just email the customer a copy of this discussion. Interesting that you are even talking to the customer even though it sounds like you were hired by the GC.


----------



## mudbone

Bender said:


> Zinsser is a terrible choice for bare drywall.
> 
> I would be curious to see if it pulls off of the sheetrock as well as the mud.


 :blink:


----------



## fauxlynn

IHATE_HOMEDEPOT said:


> I would just email the customer a copy of this discussion. Interesting that you are even talking to the customer even though it sounds like you were hired by the GC.


No, long time customer from Baltimore , flew me up there. I was thinking about showing her this, not sure yet.


----------



## chrisn

fauxlynn said:


> No, long time customer from Baltimore , flew me up there. I was thinking about showing her this, not sure yet.


 
are you not from Maryland?:blink:


----------



## fauxlynn

chrisn said:


> are you not from Maryland?:blink:


I'm actually from Chicago, got stuck here after my parents divorced. The client is from MD, it was her mother's home in NH. And since we're on the subject, I would love to live in Massachusetts, Vermont or Maine. All marriage proposals from those states will be seriously considered, ha ha.


----------



## slinger58

hotwing7 said:


> Aw Lynn I can't believe you're having to take the fallout for someone esles error.
> 
> He sounds like a smooth talker having been able to convince the homeowner. So now it's yout turn. Gather all your facts / specs / timelines and do as above - arrange a meeting with the three of them (I bet the GC won't want to turn up - oh and maybe leave the pole out of it).
> 
> Being fully prepared is half the battle.
> 
> If he won't attend - then you need to bring the ho round to your way of thinking - ie the rght way. Good luck wth it.


That's the ticket. Be prepared and stick to your guns.


----------



## Tonyg

fauxlynn said:


> I'm actually from Chicago, got stuck here after my parents divorced. The client is from MD, it was her mother's home in NH. And since we're on the subject, I would love to live in Massachusetts, Vermont or Maine. All marriage proposals from those states will be seriously considered, ha ha.


You should call Dan :thumbup:


----------



## TJ Paint

Tonyg said:


> You should call Dan :thumbup:


A woman would just be too much in that basement


----------



## hotwing7

fauxlynn said:


> No, long time customer from Baltimore , flew me up there. I was thinking about showing her this, not sure yet.


In that case .................

Dear homeowner

I understand that you have a predicament that is not of your own doing and are trying to find a way to resolve it. I also understand that the easiest way to achieve a solution is to ensure that the person/s who commited the error - fix it.

I think I talk for many on here when I say that Lynn is a very respected member of the paint community, her work standards and ethics are second to none, and whilst not knowing her personally - all you need to do is look at the catalogue of her work to know that pride and care is taken in each and every job. Couple that with the years of experience and I think you will find that there can be little doubt that her actions on the day in question were not intentional - and were in fact based on information given by the general contractor. (Of whom we are led to believe is being somewhat heavy handed with an elder family member no less?? - Seems a nice guy no?)

In short - for Lynn to lose some of her impecable reputation by taking 'shortcuts' just does not fly. 

Yours truly (in support of FauxLynn)
Hotwing7
(outspoken painter from Alberta  )


----------



## Hemlock

Is this on 1 wall? Why not go fix it on your own time, get paid and move on!


----------



## chrisn

fauxlynn said:


> I'm actually from Chicago, got stuck here after my parents divorced. The client is from MD, it was her mother's home in NH. And since we're on the subject, I would love to live in Massachusetts, Vermont or Maine. All marriage proposals from those states will be seriously considered, ha ha.


 

but it says

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Maryland
Posts: 321 
Thanks: 245
Thanked 176 Times in 112 Posts


----------



## chrisn

hotwing7 said:


> In that case .................
> 
> Dear homeowner
> 
> I understand that you have a predicament that is not of your own doing and are trying to find a way to resolve it. I also understand that the easiest way to achieve a solution is to ensure that the person/s who commited the error - fix it.
> 
> I think I talk for many on here when I say that Lynn is a very respected member of the paint community, her work standards and ethics are second to none, and whilst not knowing her personally - all you need to do is look at the catalogue of her work to know that pride and care is taken in each and every job. Couple that with the years of experience and I think you will find that there can be little doubt that her actions on the day in question were not intentional - and were in fact based on information given by the general contractor. (Of whom we are led to believe is being somewhat heavy handed with an elder family member no less?? - Seems a nice guy no?)
> 
> In short - for Lynn to lose some of her impecable reputation by taking 'shortcuts' just does not fly.
> 
> Yours truly (in support of FauxLynn)
> Hotwing7
> (outspoken painter from Alberta  )


not so sure we use that term down here:whistling2:


----------



## hotwing7

chrisn said:


> not so sure we use that term down here:whistling2:


You can change it to something that would better suit your needs if you must


----------



## fauxlynn

Hemlock said:


> Is this on 1 wall? Why not go fix it on your own time, get paid and move on!


I did fix it, 2 months or so ago. She told me to write a separate bill for the extra charges. It was for about 40 hrs. She negotiated his final bill, supposedly deducting all sorts of stuff, now she's come back to me.

I could be ok with not getting the money, if I was in the wrong. But, you people have convinced me that I am not wrong, but I still may lose a customer over this. She wants to deduct room and board from my final bill,all this time later.


----------



## fauxlynn

Tonyg said:


> You should call Dan :thumbup:


 I'm kidding, although I am sure he is very nice.



TJ Paint said:


> A woman would just be too much in that basement


EEWWW! I don't want to live in a basement or do anything else in a creepy basement. You're funny.



chrisn said:


> but it says
> 
> Join Date: Apr 2011
> Location: Maryland
> Posts: 321
> Thanks: 245
> Thanked 176 Times in 112 Posts


 I am confused.:huh:Yes I live in MD, but I am not from MD.(sorry, not a fan of MD)My MD client flew me to NH.


----------



## Toolnut

I know I'm late to the party but it sounds like he used hot mud (the quick setting powder you mix with water). This stuff will set up and feel dry so it can be re-coated but it is not dry under the surface, this is fine as long as enough time passes before you prime and paint. Sounds like maybe it was primed to soon. Usually regular drywall mud will feel wet till it dries.


----------



## fauxlynn

Well, I handled it and probably not in a good way because she is quite upset with me. I wrote a dozen drafts and sat on it a day and a half before I sent what I thought was a fair but non-emotional solution. Now she is .Oh well, I didn't expect to get paid after all this time anyway. She was my client for about 15 years.


----------



## slinger58

fauxlynn said:


> Well, I handled it and probably not in a good way because she is quite upset with me. I wrote a dozen drafts and sat on it a day and a half before I sent what I thought was a fair but non-emotional solution. Now she is .Oh well, I didn't expect to get paid after all this time anyway. She was my client for about 15 years.


Tough situation. You from out of town, GC in the neighborhood. This stuff happens to every one of us on occasion. It's just luck of the draw sometimes. :thumbsup:


----------



## slinger58

Toolnut said:


> I know I'm late to the party but it sounds like he used hot mud (the quick setting powder you mix with water). This stuff will set up and feel dry so it can be re-coated but it is not dry under the surface, this is fine as long as enough time passes before you prime and paint. Sounds like maybe it was primed to soon. Usually regular drywall mud will feel wet till it dries.


Hey Toolnut, remember when quick set mud had to be topcoated with regular drywall mud before it was painted?


----------



## mudbone

fauxlynn said:


> I did fix it, 2 months or so ago. She told me to write a separate bill for the extra charges. It was for about 40 hrs. She negotiated his final bill, supposedly deducting all sorts of stuff, now she's come back to me.
> 
> I could be ok with not getting the money, if I was in the wrong. But, you people have convinced me that I am not wrong, but I still may lose a customer over this. She wants to deduct room and board from my final bill,all this time later.


 40 hrs on one wall?


----------



## Toolnut

slinger58 said:


> Hey Toolnut, remember when quick set mud had to be topcoated with regular drywall mud before it was painted?


Yes and most good tapers still do it. It really is easier for them because that makes the topcoat a lot easier to sand.


----------



## mudbone

Toolnut said:


> Yes and most good tapers still do it. It really is easier for them because that makes the topcoat a lot easier to sand.


 A good taper don't need to sand!:no:


----------



## CApainter

mudbone said:


> A good taper don't need to sand!:no:


If there's one thing I'm good at, its working the knives where I don't have to sand...much.


----------



## futtyos

I am new to this post and this is my first ever post at Paint Talk. Lynn, you say that the GC primed the wall in question (with 1-2-3) and told you that it was ready to paint and to go ahead and do your job. From what you have said, the GC never told you to wait 30 days (or any length of time, for that matter) before starting your work. How is the failure that resulted (whatever exactly it was) NOT the responsibility of the GC? I thought that people hired GC's to make sure that all the work is done properly, on time and in a workmanlike manner. I believe they are supposed to be licensed and have insurance of post a bond that will take care of problems like this.

Unless there is more to this story than you have told, it would seem like you are dead to rights and that the GC does not have a leg to stand on. If the woman that you are doing the work for (albeit thru the GC) cannot understand that the failure is the GC's problem and not yours, I would think it is time to stop having any dealings with this woman as well as the GC.

Do you have any written proposals that you can redact and post here? I try to get everything down as exactly as I can in my proposals before any commitment is made.

Just some thoughts and questions.

futtyos


----------



## hotwing7

mudbone said:


> 40 hrs on one wall?


You have to remember Lynn is in her 80's

:whistling2: :jester:


----------



## cdaniels

CApainter said:


> If there's one thing I'm good at, its working the knives where I don't have to sand...much.


Me too.It's a lot easier to knife off wet than to sand off dry.:thumbsup:


----------



## Toolnut

hotwing7 said:


> You have to remember Lynn is in her 80's
> 
> :whistling2: :jester:


WOW at 69 I thought I was the oldest one on here still slinging paint.


----------



## daArch

In defense of MD, it's a big state (well, if you walk from one end to the other) and it does encompass terrain from gorgeous coast to what they call mountains. even has a couple of acres where some residents are politically inclined. 

You can't judge it by one area. I've been in parts that I couldn't wait to get away from, and I've been in parts where I could easily settle in. 

MA is the same way. Some parts are GREAT, others not so. 

These states ain't like Kansas that are homogeneous (and homophobic) mile after homogeneous mile.

Now as far as primer over undried mud, tell the guy he could REALLY same time if he mixed powdered hot mud directly into Gardz - NO water, just Gardz.


----------



## fauxlynn

You're right d'Arch, Maryland isn't all bad. I love western MD, out in Garrett County. Oakland is quaint and Deep Creek Lake and the surrounding area is just beautiful. Massachusetts is easy for me to like because that's where my grandchildren are. And who doesn't love Vermont? I'm gonna build a little cabin someday back in the woods where nobody can bother me.

I will never see that GC again, if I do I am not responsible for what happens next.


----------



## daArch

lots of nice land around Manchester VT. And if you're there, the northerners will call you things like "flatlander" or "masshole" (to them anything south of Jamaica is "Northern Massachusetts").

that way you get the best of BOTH states. :thumbup:


----------



## slinger58

fauxlynn said:


> You're right d'Arch, Maryland isn't all bad. I love western MD, out in Garrett County. Oakland is quaint and Deep Creek Lake and the surrounding area is just beautiful. Massachusetts is easy for me to like because that's where my grandchildren are. And who doesn't love Vermont? I'm gonna build a little cabin someday back in the woods where nobody can bother me.
> 
> I will never see that GC again, if I do I am not responsible for what happens next.




Well, if by chance you do meet up with him, be sure and take some pics of what is left of him after you're finished with him. You know we will want to see here on PT. :thumbsup:


----------

