# Valspar Contractor 2000 series eggshell



## jack pauhl

Anyone use it? Comments? Wolf, was this the one?


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## Workaholic

That stuff is pretty cheap in the lowes around me.


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## jack pauhl

Workaholic said:


> That stuff is pretty cheap in the lowes around me.


I want to say it was priced at $17-18 at ours. Sound right?


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## Workaholic

jack pauhl said:


> I want to say it was priced at $17-18 at ours. Sound right?


I never bought it before but have seen it in there at around 50 a 5'er, might of been for flat and maybe the eggshell is a bit more. I will have to look closer next time I am in there.


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## Wolfgang

That was it Jack. I did an insurance resto complete interior with it, including using the deep tint base - dark orange over white. Eggshell - covered in two coats. My take on it was that I liked it better than the Promar200. 

The story I got was that Valspar hired a couple of SW guys who developed it to compete with PM200, making changes that they tried to get SW to do to the PM200. Don't know if it was true or not.

Check it out and give your opinion on it, as I'd be curious to read your take. A couple other contractors I know have used it and had good things to say.

I think the eggshell was around $21/gal....maybe they dropped the price to get it into the hands of some contractors. Ask to talk to the Valspar rep also....the two I met could have put 90% of all the reps I've ever met to shame for their knowledge and customer service.


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## straight_lines

What did it smell like? I am usually not bothered with paint odors, but the last valspar I had to use made me sick it stuck so bad.


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## NCPaint1

Wolfgang said:


> I think the eggshell was around $21/gal....maybe they dropped the price to get it into the hands of some contractors. Ask to talk to the Valspar rep also....the two I met could have put 90% of all the reps I've ever met to shame for their knowledge and customer service.


Its always good to try new things, im never opposed to it. 

$21 sounds like a decent price, but for me, the name is associated with the DIY market. For the same price point, there are countless products available. BM Super Spec, PPG Speedhide, SW Pro Mar, Coronado Super Kote..to name a few. 

I guess my point is, if a H.O can buy the product for $21 at the home center, they know your price too.....and most can add things up. Now the customer knows your material costs, pretty much removing the markup for you, or you can mark up the material and risk the H.O putting 2 & 2 together and getting upset.


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## Wolfgang

Valid point NC. However, my bids have never shown a breakdown of materials and labor, just something I have never done, nor have I ever been asked to do it that I recall. My job "breakdowns" were always done in office. Also, as I have stated, this was used on an insurance job where, basically, all I was allowed to use were products from the box stores.


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## bikerboy

NCPaint1;197484
$21 sounds like a decent price said:



> The only people who really care about DIY paint is pro's. Homeowners by and large could care less.[/COLOR]
> 
> I guess my point is, if a H.O can buy the product for $21 at the home center, they know your price too.....and most can add things up. .


Gotta watch listing the materials seperate. Some states view that as retailing, meaning you now have to collect sales tax.


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## jack pauhl

straight_lines said:


> What did it smell like? I am usually not bothered with paint odors, but the last valspar I had to use made me sick it stuck so bad.


It had that DIY paint smell which lingered into the next day. Not bad but there.


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## NCPaint1

jack pauhl said:


> It had that DIY paint smell which lingered into the next day. Not bad but there.


I dunno maybe im weird. Most paints ( not all ) I actually like the smell. It smells fresh, clean, and new....and most importantly...money


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## jack pauhl

Wolf, I was surprised by this paint. What a huge difference from the last Valspar product I used. Using the color below, it covered a pale linen white eggshell effortlessly in one coat. Great hide. No complaint other than odor. I'd spread this over 200 eg any day. I'm sure, like BEHR ultra, this too could have been reduced by alot,.


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## JoseyWales

Wolfgang said:


> That was it Jack. I did an insurance resto complete interior with it, including using the deep tint base - dark orange over white. Eggshell - covered in two coats. My take on it was that I liked it better than the Promar200.
> 
> The story I got was that Valspar hired a couple of SW guys who developed it to compete with PM200, making changes that they tried to get SW to do to the PM200. Don't know if it was true or not.
> 
> Check it out and give your opinion on it, as I'd be curious to read your take. A couple other contractors I know have used it and had good things to say.
> 
> I think the eggshell was around $21/gal....maybe they dropped the price to get it into the hands of some contractors. Ask to talk to the Valspar rep also....the two I met could have put 90% of all the reps I've ever met to shame for their knowledge and customer service.


It's good to know of another quality contractor line available.I've noticed that even the Superspec is going up in price.If I can save $4-$5 a gallon by using the Valspar,then all the better.The less I have to go into a BM store,the better.I like their products but prefer to boycott their prices as much as possible.I'm always searching for comparable alternatives that are priced more reasonably.


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## NCPaint1

JoseyWales said:


> It's good to know of another quality contractor line available.I've noticed that even the Superspec is going up in price.If I can save $4-$5 a gallon by using the Valspar,then all the better.The less I have to go into a BM store,the better.I like their products but prefer to boycott their prices as much as possible.I'm always searching for comparable alternatives that are priced more reasonably.


Super Spec is right around $23/gal for eggshell. If a $2/gal difference is going to break the bank, maybe its time to reevaluate the business plan. :thumbsup:


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## JoseyWales

NCPaint1 said:


> Super Spec is right around $23/gal for eggshell. If a $2/gal difference is going to break the bank, maybe its time to reevaluate the business plan. :thumbsup:


I pay $24 for Spec and can find the Valspar for $20/gallon. I can get a similar product as BEN for $10/gallon less,a similar product as Aura for $20/gal less.

Why pay more for basically the same quality product? That sounds like good business to me...Saving $50 here or $100 there over the course of a year starts to add up.I like to re-invest the savings into advertisement and equipment,but that's just me.Is that good business?.....some would say it is....


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## DeanV

JoseyWales said:


> I pay $24 for Spec and can find the Valspar for $20/gallon. I can get a similar product as BEN for $10/gallon less,a similar product as Aura for $20/gal less.
> 
> Why pay more for basically the same quality product? That sounds like good business to me...Saving $50 here or $100 there over the course of a year starts to add up.I like to re-invest the savings into advertisement and equipment,but that's just me.Is that good business?.....some would say it is....


So far, there is nothing similar to Aura to my knowledge. SuperSpec and Ben there are comparable products.


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## NCPaint1

DeanV said:


> So far, there is nothing similar to Aura to my knowledge. SuperSpec and Ben there are comparable products.


Agreed

Aura :no:

Ben :no:

Super Spec :yes:

Ultra Spec :no:

Pretty much any product that is on the Gennex platform will not be comparable to any other manufacturer at this time.


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## JoseyWales

DeanV said:


> So far, there is nothing similar to Aura to my knowledge. SuperSpec and Ben there are comparable products.


Many mid to top of the line paints from various Paint companies will compare favourably to Aura in durability,application and looks...There may be a few times a year that I would buy Aura when a feature wall is RED or orange or a colour that normally doesn't cover well...There is no way that I would use it as a go-to wall paint everyday...

Gen-ex products may be slightly lower in VOC than most...I'd rather save the bucks and re-invest it into marketing and equipment.


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## tntpainting

Ive heard its similar to ici line? But never used it i guess im a snob i have my favorites and i tend to stick with


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## tntpainting

If u throw enough buisness at your local swp or bm reps they tend to give u a break on the price i doubt they would do that at the box store yer gettn the valspar at just sayin i get my 200 from swp for around 20 bucks and honestly i know what im gettn every time .


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## Workaholic

For me nothing has changed over the years, the box stores could have the best paint in the world but the lack of customer service takes away from any benefits.


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## Paradigmzz

Workaholic said:


> For me nothing has changed over the years, the box stores could have the best paint in the world but the lack of customer service takes away from any benefits.



Hear ya. 

I was in Lowe's the other day and the Valspar rep saw my SW shirt and talked my ear off. Nice guy, killer prices on products, but like you Sean, i have the same take on it. You never get the same paint person twice and you better hope they can actually get you what you want. My wife knows more about product selections than the paint desk does at these places.


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## Paradigmzz

On the brighter side, I got some really cool Valspar shirts (gasp) and I love wearing them in to my local paint stores. :jester::thumbup:


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## JoseyWales

Workaholic said:


> For me nothing has changed over the years, the box stores could have the best paint in the world but the lack of customer service takes away from any benefits.


I wouldn't go out of my way to purchase it,but some times the customer prefers you use the same paint used in another room of the house.If it's Valspar now you know that it's ok to use..If I had to go into a HD or Lowes I would go very early in the morning...You are in and out quick.You won't find a homeowner shopping for paint at that hour..


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## Workaholic

Paradigmzz said:


> Hear ya.
> 
> I was in Lowe's the other day and the Valspar rep saw my SW shirt and talked my ear off. Nice guy, killer prices on products, but like you Sean, i have the same take on it. You never get the same paint person twice and you better hope they can actually get you what you want. My wife knows more about product selections than the paint desk does at these places.


Yeah I get the same thing in there sometimes too and I have the same problems as what you listed. 



JoseyWales said:


> I wouldn't go out of my way to purchase it,but some times the customer prefers you use the same paint used in another room of the house.If it's Valspar now you know that it's ok to use..If I had to go into a HD or Lowes I would go very early in the morning...You are in and out quick.You won't find a homeowner shopping for paint at that hour..


Don't get me wrong I have used their paint before and some of it is not bad but I typically do not buy from them because of the lack of knowledge and lack of customer service.


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## JoseyWales

Workaholic said:


> Yeah I get the same thing in there sometimes too and I have the same problems as what you listed.
> 
> 
> Don't get me wrong I have used their paint before and some of it is not bad but I typically do not buy from them because of the lack of knowledge and lack of customer service.


Yeah I'd have to agree...You get more than enough screwups at the big paint store chains because of constant turnover of staff...I would imagine HD and Lowe's would be much worse in that regard.


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## straight_lines

NCPaint1 said:


> Agreed
> 
> Aura :no:
> 
> Ben :no:
> 
> Super Spec :yes:
> 
> Ultra Spec :no:
> 
> Pretty much any product that is on the Gennex platform will not be comparable to any other manufacturer at this time.


 Everyone on this board knows how much I love BM paint, but they are trying to price themselves out of my hands. The gennex colorants offer me no advantages when it comes to putting paint on the wall. Sure they are low VOC, but other than that I don't see how they do anything for me but cost more. 

BM still hasn't released SS in gennex which has been my go to interior paint since I started my business. Yet they release Regal Select which is what $5 less a gal than Aura. How does that make sense? 

I guess someone forgot to tell the suits we are still in a recession, and the guys that actually buy the bulk of their product are cutting costs in every way to stay profitable, and busy in a very competitive market. 

$5 a gallon over 12 months is a lot of money when you are buying over 1200 gals a year. I remember when Super Spec was $14 gallon.


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## Paradigmzz

straight_lines said:


> Everyone on this board knows how much I love BM paint, but they are trying to price themselves out of my hands. The gennex colorants offer me no advantages when it comes to putting paint on the wall. Sure they are low VOC, but other than that I don't see how they do anything for me but cost more.
> 
> BM still hasn't released SS in gennex which has been my go to interior paint since I started my business. Yet they release Regal Select which is what $5 less a gal than Aura. How does that make sense?
> 
> I guess someone forgot to tell the suits we are still in a recession, and the guys that actually buy the bulk of their product are cutting costs in every way to stay profitable, and busy in a very competitive market.
> 
> $5 a gallon over 12 months is a lot of money when you are buying over 1200 gals a year. I remember when Super Spec was $14 gallon.



I actually have been mulling this topic over for a while now. At some point, all paints are better now than when latex first rolled out, I'm sure Valspar, Behr and Glidden arent absolutely horrible. At some point, the extra 3-10 dollars a gallon adds up and man, that sucks to think about.


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## JoseyWales

Paradigmzz said:


> I actually have been mulling this topic over for a while now. At some point, all paints are better now than when latex first rolled out, I'm sure Valspar, Behr and Glidden arent absolutely horrible. At some point, the extra 3-10 dollars a gallon adds up and man, that sucks to think about.


 
I agree...I don't like the attitude of some painters who say that they don't care about the cost of the paint because the customer ultimately pays for it..Is that a dumb attitude or what? Keep the same price you normally quote,save $300 in paint costs and then re-invest the savings into marketing or equipment or whatever. BM is certainly pricing themselves out of the contractor business...It's more catered to homeowners and to the DIY guy these days. Most of the time I go in to a Benjamin Moore store these days I rarely see another contractor.


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## NCPaint1

Straight, Ultra Spec is coming. Its the WB version of Super Spec. I got to play with it a bit at the Contractor expo.

Pricing is all over the board with the different BM dealers. I'm shocked when I hear some prices guys are paying. Then again, everyone has different overhead, and all the markets are different.


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## straight_lines

Whats the word on Ultra Spec pricing? I am at $22 gal and $23 for ultra base on SS. Also why couldn't they use Gennex tint in Eco? 

Oh and did you get the links for those pics I sent? Had to take them with my laptop camera.


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## NCPaint1

straight_lines said:


> Whats the word on Ultra Spec pricing? I am at $22 gal and $23 for ultra base on SS. Also why couldn't they use Gennex tint in Eco?
> 
> Oh and did you get the links for those pics I sent? Had to take them with my laptop camera.


No word on pricing yet, I would imagine $1-2/gal more. The gennex products all use much more colorant than the standard system. Eco Spec WB uses the Gennex colorants. 

You have a pretty decent price on your SS. 

I can't see the pictures, but I'm browsing on my phone. Ill look later on my computer.


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## Paradigmzz

dont get me wrong, the customer service, solid reps I deal with, and all that make it worth it to me.


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## ltd

valspar 2000 is a great paint . im a loyal s/w guy like their paint ,locations ,workers .imo s/w is a good selling point .for interio am all most all super paint . but here's the catch s/w is charging me 27 dollars for pro 200 and they wont do any better.im not a big dog and i refuse to put 27dollar paint in closets, apts,utility rooms.for you big dogs i know you dont want to pee around going to the big box i get that .but until s/w can sell me sundries ,conversation , bin ,basic white or off white for blow and goes ill gladly travel across the street to the big box .in conclusion i think valspar 2000 is a great paint at a great price.thats my story and im sticking to it


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## Wolfgang

Paradigmzz said:


> dont get me wrong, the customer service, solid reps I deal with, and all that make it worth it to me.


Just out of curiosity - can you put a yearly dollar figure on that? $3-5 grand a year? How do you justify if those amounts are really a worth and benefit to your business? Don't get me wrong, I am in no way slamming on your reply, I've just always wondered how others look at this. Is it an actual value to you or a perceived value?


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## Wood511

JoseyWales said:


> I agree...I don't like the attitude of some painters who say that they don't care about the cost of the paint because the customer ultimately pays for it..Is that a dumb attitude or what? Keep the same price you normally quote,save $300 in paint costs and then re-invest the savings into marketing or equipment or whatever. BM is certainly pricing themselves out of the contractor business...It's more catered to homeowners and to the DIY guy these days. Most of the time I go in to a Benjamin Moore store these days I rarely see another contractor.


In a non-paint world - the rest of your life - where does this NOT happen to you? In other words, what dealer/professional tradesman/retailer does not pass along manufacturing costs to the ultimate customer?


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## Paradigmzz

Wolfgang said:


> Just out of curiosity - can you put a yearly dollar figure on that? $3-5 grand a year? How do you justify if those amounts are really a worth and benefit to your business? Don't get me wrong, I am in no way slamming on your reply, I've just always wondered how others look at this. Is it an actual value to you or a perceived value?



I know i get comped anytime something goes awry at my local SW. My orders are ready from a phone call. Dont think the same would be true at a Big Box. As for a dollar amount...

still questioning alot of it right now. 

I have been thinking about this subject for some time now.


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## jack pauhl

Im just throwing this out there for kicks but it seems many people want to point fingers at customer service with big box stores as an issue. Here is my expectations of customer service at a big box store.

I need this mixed in that.. please. Thank you and have a nice day. Simple. Its best for me if they dont open their mouth and try to talk how to paint with me.

I expect nothing else from customer service at big box. If you want the answers about product, you try it because everyone else will have other opinions which I have yet to pinpoint why so many variables in experience with paint exists. 

For me, paint either does or does not do what I need it to. For others, that might be enough to please them. Not everyone has the same expectations nor do they need the can of paint to do what 1000 other people may need it to on their specific job. Application and skill plays a huge role in their outcome of product usage.


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## Wolfgang

^^^^I feel the same way about what I want/expect as far as customer service from a big box store. Sundries and certain primers I'll just pick off the shelves myself. And I really can't recall the last time somebody from SW walked through the store for me picking out various items. Problems or questions concerning the Valspar paints - you just get in touch with the rep - same as SW. Probably 95% of my dealings with SW concerned just mixing the colors. I don't need a tutorial on my paint purchases every time I order something. Biggest deal for me was being able to call in an order, and there were times that didn't go as well either.


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## DanielMDollaPainting

New here but my opinion is this. I love SW but I too believe the Valspar 2000 is identical for less money. As far as getting service at the big box early in the morning, forget it. It's not a problem waiting behind homeowners. The days of the big stores being packed are over. Look around they are dead. There just never seems to be anyone in the paint dept. before 8am. They always have someone there in the evening. There is always somebody at SW, but they want to sell you the moon too. 
Do a lot of you guys use the PM200 or contractor grades all the time for residential repaints? Sure the is more room for profit with cheaper paint but in my experience, most HO's probably don't want to see me using contractor grade. I often let the customer get the paint or pick it out and I pick it up. I don't mark up the paint. Most peolple are so cheap any more they will get it themselves if they think the contractor will mark it up. I think Behr, Valspar and superpaint are all the same quality as long as you get the "premium" or 28-35$ per gal. Lets face it when you are painting interior drywall with all it's nail pops and imperfections how much should we spend on paint.


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## jack pauhl

Well well well what have we here? This is Valspar 2000 eg in a bath. This area is near the shower and goes all the way around. The rest of the bath near the ceiling has a white haze without the streaks. I've seen Aura and Duration do this too in baths. This was a rental so I'll need to repaint this bath. Unfortunately I painted another rentals bath too which is far worse than this bath. But hey, that is why I test paints before they land on a customers job.





Poor lighting.

Here is a similar situation with Promar 200 lo-eg in a bath. Not only did the area behind a picture turn flat but the streaks are visible to the right of it.


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## LarryHawk

Hi,
I'm new here on this forum, but I've been in business since 1988, and I can honestly say that Lowe's Valspar 2000 series is really good stuff. I use the High Hiding White flat for ceilings and the High Hiding White semi for trim. Great coverage, low odor, and satisfied customers

I previously used SW ProMar400 Extra White flat for ceilings and ProMar200 Extra White semi for trim, but their prices skyrocketed, and I refuse to pay that much for 'middle of the road' paint.

I know for a fact that the Valspar 2000 Contractors line was specifically made to compete with SW 200/400 series, and IMO, they have done just that...they are one in the same, only the price is the difference.


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## DanielMDollaPainting

LarryHawk said:


> Hi,
> I'm new here on this forum, but I've been in business since 1988, and I can honestly say that Lowe's Valspar 2000 series is really good stuff. I use the High Hiding White flat for ceilings and the High Hiding White semi for trim. Great coverage, low odor, and satisfied customers
> 
> I previously used SW ProMar400 Extra White flat for ceilings and ProMar200 Extra White semi for trim, but their prices skyrocketed, and I refuse to pay that much for 'middle of the road' paint.
> 
> I know for a fact that the Valspar 2000 Contractors line was specifically made to compete with SW 200/400 series, and IMO, they have done just that...they are one in the same, only the price is the difference.


 I am using Promar 400 extra white for ceilings. I used the valspar highhide for an interior porch and it seems the same consistency. I'd like to try the valspar for ceings. They have an ultra white. Do you find the high hide white is a little gray compared to SW extra white? The high hide probably would cover better. I almost always have to use two coats of the SW extra white on ceilings, especially new construction repaints. It is nice and bright though when it is done and dead flat.


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## DanielMDollaPainting

Larry I've been using SW superpaint in extrawhite for trim. The extra white color is hard to cover. It always takes two coats over primer on new material. On repaints it doesn't cover other whites too good. I guess that's with any brighter white. Behr ultra pure white doesn't cover for anything. I hate using that. I've never tried Promar 200 for trim. They got me paying almost 19 bucks for 400 flat and 28.99 for 200 eggshell. The manager says I'm getting almost 40-50% off on 400 and 200. He said it is liike 40$ a gallon. How come it goes on like milk. I can't stand the way SW jacks up prices and then acts like I'm getting discounted. 400 is a 17$ per gal. paint at best. I never looked at what it retails for. Who the hell would pay 40$ a gal for that stuff. SW is the closest and only paint store in my area. Home depot and Lowe's are both only a mile away though. I like the paint store juyst not the hidden price agenda. I've bought paint at SW and they charged me different prices day to day for the same paint depending on who was working. Like they make it up as they go along. If they think they can get over on you they will. They are almost a little too nice sometimes. I wish they would just give me the best price they can. I guess I'm going to have to bitch a little and threaten to go elsewhere. They always brag that thier paint is better than ACE or other stores. I see other guys on here paying alot less for 200/400 and I know I'm not doing alot of volume, but geez. I'll be paying 36$ for superpaint satin next week.
Home depot is going to be carrying a new line of interior latex from Kilz to compete with SW 200/400 line. Coming soon.


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## jack pauhl

Poor coverage with BEHR Ultra?  [email protected]! That would be a application/applicator brush issue. White stock over chocolate brown in 2 coats... easy in semi gloss.


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## MAK-Deco

Wolfgang said:


> Just out of curiosity - can you put a yearly dollar figure on that? $3-5 grand a year? How do you justify if those amounts are really a worth and benefit to your business? Don't get me wrong, I am in no way slamming on your reply, I've just always wondered how others look at this. Is it an actual value to you or a perceived value?


Wolf,

My BM dealer is 5 minutes from my house as the nearest "non contractor" oriented box store is 10 miles from my house. The areas we work in have another small BM dealer with in 10 minutes of where we work I would be glad to give them the extra money for paint I know how to work with then try something from a box store.

Any really if comparing apples to apples BM offers lines to compete on pricing with every line you can find at the big box not sure why people keep thinking other wise.


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## MAK-Deco

jack pauhl said:


> Well well well what have we here? This is Valspar 2000 eg in a bath. This area is near the shower and goes all the way around. The rest of the bath near the ceiling has a white haze without the streaks. I've seen Aura and Duration do this too in baths. This was a rental so I'll need to repaint this bath. Unfortunately I painted another rentals bath too which is far worse than this bath. But hey, that is why I test paints before they land on a customers job.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Poor lighting.
> 
> Here is a similar situation with Promar 200 lo-eg in a bath. Not only did the area behind a picture turn flat but the streaks are visible to the right of it.



Looks llike perfect opportunity for Aura bath and spa :whistling2:


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## LarryHawk

Here is my deal...I supply all necessary white paint for my customers
Valspar Contractors 2000 in High Hiding White Flat for ceilings @ $17 gal
Valspar Contractor 2000 in High Hiding White Semi for trim @ $20 gal.
I live about 1 mile from Lowe's, so I can pickup as needed. If I lived further away, I would stock a little of both to have when needed.
These are factory made stock colors, (always a good thing)and I have been using both for about 2 years, and my customers love it, and therefore...so do I, especially since they cover nicely.

When it comes to custom colors, I have the customer supply any color that they like, in any brand or finish they choose. Most of the time, they supply high end, high priced paint...whatever...I'll use anything, as long as it's there, on the job, ready to go. Of course their are exceptions when I need to supply custom colors, and when I do, I again use either Valspar 2000, or Olympic [email protected] $20. (also available at Lowe's)

Simply put, Sherwin Williams cannot compete with these prices, and the quality is equal or better than ProMar 200. At Lowe's you can call the Contractors office, and order paint and it's ready for pickup...just like Sherwin Williams and just like the also over priced, and over rated Benjamin Moore Spec line.

BTW...I agree Home Depot Behr Ultra white semi is awful!...but to each his own,


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## DanielMDollaPainting

jack pauhl said:


> Poor coverage with BEHR Ultra?  [email protected]! That would be a application/applicator brush issue. White stock over chocolate brown in 2 coats... easy in semi gloss.


 Your kidding right Jack. I've used the ultra pure white premium and it doesn't even cover itself. It always has blue streaks from the primer or other off white I'm trying to cover bleeding through. It has virtually no pigment.


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## bikerboy

DanielMDollaPainting said:


> I am using Promar 400 extra white for ceilings. I used the valspar highhide for an interior porch and it seems the same consistency. I'd like to try the valspar for ceings. They have an ultra white. Do you find the high hide white is a little gray compared to SW extra white? The high hide probably would cover better. I almost always have to use two coats of the SW extra white on ceilings, especially new construction repaints. It is nice and bright though when it is done and dead flat.


 
Ultra white is also what they use as a tint base it is not really meant or designed to be a great covering color. It's formulated to leave room for colorants. That's why they make a high hiding white, they shoot a little black into it. (and that is why it appears grey) Try the designer white they have, it covers well.


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## Different Strokes

I will be trying valspar 2000 this week. 

Duron aka SW has been jerking me around on my price for Ultra Deluxe for about 2 months. 2 years ago I was paying about 24$ a gallon for plastikote egg. I downstepped it to ultra deluxe for my midgrade and today I pay..... $29.43 per gallon of Ultra egg. My guy at Duron has put in for my discount twice...nothing., and I'm still paying almost $30 a gallon. I don't know what else to do other than shop around. It was awesome, one day about 2 months ago my contractor discount just disappeared. My guy says he will credit my account for the paint I've bought since it's disappearance once it's reinstated . we'll see I guess. :blink:


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## LarryHawk

Different Strokes said:


> I will be trying valspar 2000 this week.
> 
> SW has been jerking me around on my price for Ultra Deluxe for about 2 months. 2 years ago I was paying about 24$ a gallon for plastikote egg. I downstepped it to ultra deluxe for my midgrade and today I pay..... $29.43 per gallon of Ultra egg. My guy at Duron has put in for my discount twice...nothing., and I'm still paying almost $30 a gallon. I don't know what else to do other than shop around. It was awesome, one day about 2 months ago my contractor discount just disappeared. My guy says he will credit my account for the paint I've bought since it's disappearance once it's reinstated . we'll see I guess. :blink:


That's because Duron is _owned _by Sherwin Williams


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## LarryHawk

JoseyWales said:


> ..If I had to go into a HD or Lowes I would go very early in the morning...You are in and out quick.You won't find a homeowner shopping for paint at that hour..


You can call Lowe's Contractors Dept, order what you want, and it's ready when you arrive.


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## jack pauhl

DanielMDollaPainting said:


> Your kidding right Jack. I've used the ultra pure white premium and it doesn't even cover itself. It always has blue streaks from the primer or other off white I'm trying to cover bleeding through. It has virtually no pigment.


Kidding? No. I'll have you know Danielson... I drove out of my way to shoot this video for you. It's BEHR Ultra Satin Interior but I know it to work just the same with semi. We are using semi-gloss on some rentals where all the trim is that dark brown. I keep telling guys the brush plays a HUGE roll in coverage on all paints just like tires on a car. Sure all tires will get you from point a to b, but some tires will allow you to round a curve at 80 mph while other tires on the same car wont. Same goes for roller covers. Purdy White woven vs Wooster white woven -- not the same results. Nor is it the same results between Wooster Ultra 3000 covers and Wooster pro doo z covers.


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## Different Strokes

Nice Vid Jack. 

I stopped by Lowes today to check out the contractor 2000 valspar. The price here for a 5'er is $91 for egg. $18.20 a gallon roughly. After the %15 percent contractor discount I would be looking at about $15.46 a gallon. I'll paint a room with it this week and try it out. If It performs decent, it's probably all I'll use for office repaints from now on. Or until DURWIN finds my discount.:blink:


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## jack pauhl

Different Strokes said:


> Nice Vid Jack.
> 
> I stopped by Lowes today to check out the contractor 2000 valspar. The price here for a 5'er is $91 for egg. $18.20 a gallon roughly. After the %15 percent contractor discount I would be looking at about $15.46 a gallon. I'll paint a room with it this week and try it out. If It performs decent, it's probably all I'll use for office repaints from now on. Or until DURWIN finds my discount.:blink:


Have you looked at Glidden Professional Ultra-Hide 150 eg? Its more in that price range, bit less. Beats Duration Home Satin for less than half the price. Some people just like to spend a lot on paint because it makes them feel like its better quality some how. I understand, I thought that too in the past.


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## Different Strokes

jack pauhl said:


> Have you looked at Glidden Professional Ultra-Hide 150 eg? Its more in that price range, bit less. Beats Duration Home Satin for less than half the price. Some people just like to spend a lot on paint because it makes them feel like its better quality some how. I understand, I thought that too in the past.


I was looking at the ultra hide the other day as well. The guy was telling my how it has great "dry hide" but it might look a little thin while it's wet. That kinda erked me a little. I guess it really doesn't matter, but i'm a creature of habit. I find what works and like to stick to it. I like to know exactly what to expect from the products I use. I know what I prefer for higher end home etc.. But the majority of my work this year will be in commercial office repaints, so if i'm going to learn a new product, i'd like it to be affordable and something i'll stick with.


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## jack pauhl

I have the most experience with Glidden Professional 150 over any other paint both on NC and Repaints. I used Ultra-Hide 150 pretty much exclusive prior to BEHR Ultra. More with the lo-sheen eg 1410 now called semi-matte. Its a great product that easily hangs with the higher priced products in many categories and its on the MPI list. There is a Low Voc version too, currently reviewing it.

I'm like you, I prefer not to change product once I find one but because I have my hands on so many different products at any given time -- I get a good feel for whats out there for comparison and every now and then some other product might surprise me. Like BEHR Ultra for example.


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## MAK-Deco

the final finish in that video looks pretty brushy.. I hope you wouldn't use that product like that one on a cabinet/trim and btw most people can get something like that to cover in a small area by putting on way to thick and using most products on the market..


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## jack pauhl

MAK-Deco said:


> the final finish in that video looks pretty brushy.. I hope you wouldn't use that product like that one on a cabinet/trim and btw most people can get something like that to cover in a small area by putting on way to thick and using most products on the market..


Hope you didnt think that was thick. What do you mean small area? Just how you saw me paint that small section is just how I would paint the side bevels too. I would just replicate that same procedure around each panel and obviously laying off flat areas are easier. Take it for what it is. I simply thought it was odd that someone would say coverage was poor going over itself or light colors when that clearly isn't the case. 

Its one of those doors on those old houses that has 50 coats of paint. You can kind of see it if you look at the video via youtube at 720p res. Door is full of random brushmarks. I literally shot that video in 2 mins from popping the lid to brushing some on the door and cleaning up. Started uploading when I got back to the car. 

I put no effort into that video but since you mentioned it. Had I spent more time with application and lay off, that one coat would look better than many 2 coats i see in stock whites. Even when I am the one applying it.


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## Different Strokes

jack pauhl said:


> Hope you didnt think that was thick. What do you mean small area? Just how you saw me paint that small section is just how I would paint the side bevels too. I would just replicate that same procedure around each panel and obviously laying off flat areas are easier. Take it for what it is. I simply thought it was odd that someone would say coverage was poor going over itself or light colors when that clearly isn't the case.
> 
> Its one of those doors on those old houses that has 50 coats of paint. You can kind of see it if you look at the video via youtube at 720p res. Door is full of random brushmarks. I literally shot that video in 2 mins from popping the lid to brushing some on the door and cleaning up. Started uploading when I got back to the car.
> 
> I put no effort into that video but since you mentioned it. Had I spent more time with application and lay off, that one coat would look better than many 2 coats i see in stock whites. Even when I am the one applying it.


I was going to say the same thing, but I figured you would come back to this thread at some point and sass Mak a little back. Funny thing is, I was just reading a thread from 2009, and you and Mak were having the same exact conversation about Behr Premium Flat. :tongue_smilie:

Anywho, What sheen did you mostly use in the ultra hide 150?
I noticed they offer a low lustre eggshell, and a standard eggshell. THat, is actually very nice because it's more options than I have now with Duron UltraDeluxe. UD is only flat, egg, or semi.

You were pleased with the touch up ability of the ultrahide?


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## jack pauhl

Goes with the territory of uploading vids. I do it too, so I cant gripe too much. Just thought those heavy brushmarks, sags and drips were obvious, maybe not so much at standard viewing resolution. 

I used the low sheen eggshell it was under #1410. BUT, both are great products.. one shinier than the other. Promar 200 lo eg has less sheen than 150 lo sheen from tests a few years ago. I know things change so... 

As far as touchups go, touches up good. I never thinned that paint except for 1st coat cut, not the roll. Used pro doo z 1/2 covers always. This is the paint that beat 15 wall primers over bare drywall. This is the paint that ALL drywall test were benchmarked from. The only way to make it look better was sticking Gardz under it but it made the lo sheen more like eggshell.

Those of you emailing me... my box is full, again.


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## DanielMDollaPainting

jack pauhl said:


> Kidding? No. I'll have you know Danielson... I drove out of my way to shoot this video for you. It's BEHR Ultra Satin Interior but I know it to work just the same with semi. We are using semi-gloss on some rentals where all the trim is that dark brown. I keep telling guys the brush plays a HUGE roll in coverage on all paints just like tires on a car. Sure all tires will get you from point a to b, but some tires will allow you to round a curve at 80 mph while other tires on the same car wont. Same goes for roller covers. Purdy White woven vs Wooster white woven -- not the same results. Nor is it the same results between Wooster Ultra 3000 covers and Wooster pro doo z covers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YouTube - BEHR Ultra Satin Interior


 I appreciate the video Jack. The can looks diffferent than what I have used in the past. I know you were using the satin which would cover better than the semi-gloss. Is that the ultra pure white color right off the shelf. I don't know if the "Ultra" is a step up from the regular premium. I have used the ultra pure white color in the standard premium semi gloss and had problems with coverage. What brush were you using. I would think any 15 dollar latex brush would give similar results.


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## jack pauhl

DanielMDollaPainting said:


> I appreciate the video Jack. The can looks diffferent than what I have used in the past. I know you were using the satin which would cover better than the semi-gloss. Is that the ultra pure white color right off the shelf. I don't know if the "Ultra" is a step up from the regular premium. I have used the ultra pure white color in the standard premium semi gloss and had problems with coverage. What brush were you using. I would think any 15 dollar latex brush would give similar results.


ULTRA Pure White #7750 stock off the shelf, shaken, not stirred. The semi is in a different color label. 

I have a major article to be release next month on Cutting-in along with the 2011 paint brush roundup. In it I talk in great detail the impact of certain paint brushes and how they affect quality and efficiency. I'm testing paint brushes every day of the week in one way or another, I can strongly say no two paint brushes are equal and many simply work against you and the paint.

Here is a sneak peak of 5 of 8 brushes. The Silver Tip was used in that video.


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## DanielMDollaPainting

I just did a little test. I had a 1/2 gallon of Valspar 2000 flat high hide white left over from last summer when I used it to paint a porch for my wifes grandmom. I put it up against the Promar 400 extra white flat and they are so close in color I couldn't tell them apart. I've used High hide whites before in F&H etc. Some are grayish to help with the hide. I was surprised how white the Valspar was. It seemed alot thicker than the 4oo also. The can was sitting for a while, but I stirred it up good. I'm curious to try the semi and see how it stands up next to super paint which I've been using. It would save me almost 15$ a gallon.


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## jack pauhl

DanielMDollaPainting said:


> I just did a little test. I had a 1/2 gallon of Valspar 2000 flat high hide white left over from last summer when I used it to paint a porch for my wifes grandmom. I put it up against the Promar 400 extra white flat and they are so close in color I couldn't tell them apart. I've used High hide whites before in F&H etc. Some are grayish to help with the hide. I was surprised how white the Valspar was. It seemed alot thicker than the 4oo also. The can was sitting for a while, but I stirred it up good. I'm curious to try the semi and see how it stands up next to super paint which I've been using. It would save me almost 15$ a gallon.


Ok same color but did one seem more flat? I'm not a fan of stock high hiding whites. They often look grayish blue. I tint them to match ready mix proform lite-blue topping. I took some topping and brushed it smooth then took it to the paint store to get a color match. The proform topping is more white than other toppings from my experience. Against a white pallet tho, its far from white oddly enough. It has black, oxide red and yellow ox in the formula for Glidden paints.

Was just a freak thing... the drywall guys were doing knock down on NC and we never painted them. The ceilings always caught my eye so one day I dried some down and matched it. Now if I paint ceilings, that is the white I use.

Been spreading lots of SuperPaint recently on interior trim.


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## LarryHawk

DanielMDollaPainting said:


> I just did a little test. I had a 1/2 gallon of Valspar 2000 flat high hide white left over from last summer when I used it to paint a porch for my wifes grandmom. I put it up against the Promar 400 extra white flat and they are so close in color I couldn't tell them apart. .


Exactly what the Valspar District Rep told me. The Valspar 2000 series was made to compete with SW ProMar 200/400. IMO it is as good or better, and you're right, Valspar 2000 High Hiding White is the same color as SW ProMar 400 Extra White. What's funny is, on the Valspar 2000 color sheet they even have the name of the SW color below some of the swatches.

Another good reason you may want to switch, other than the much lower cost, Lowe's paint computer does a perfect job of matching ANY paint from ANY company. I never had a problem in 3 years.

Other notes on Valspar and Lowe's... 

For dark colors, reds, browns, greens, and bright yellows, nothing is better than Valspar Signature HI DEF for coverage. 2 coats of red over white and your done. Costs more, but way worth it. 

Olympic brand is also available at Lowe's, also has a nice paint at fair prices. They have a 15 Year Line that is great for 'lower end' jobs, and a Speedwall Line that is perfect for spraying, closets, etc. Check their prices next time.

Finally the primers available at Lowe's are excellent, and way below cost of any SW line. I have had excellent results with the Valspar bonding primer, as well as the all purpose primer. They also have their own dark tintable primer that is very good.

Someone mentioned the service is not as good in Box stores compared to Paint Stores, and that may be true. I have found that I can call ahead, and/or be there early in the morning to avoid the average home owner tie up. The cost savings and the quality of the paint, make up for the slight inconvenience of service.

So all in all... I'm sold...it's Lowe's for me! :thumbup:


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## LarryHawk

jack pauhl said:


> Was just a freak thing... the drywall guys were doing knock down on NC and we never painted them. The ceilings always caught my eye so one day I dried some down and matched it. Now if I paint ceilings, that is the white I use.


Hi Jack,

I'm interested in the exact product and formula you used, and the coverage. 

If possible can you name the paint brand and the tints used, including the amount of each tint? 

This sounds like something I may want to try.

Thanks.


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## jack pauhl

Here's the link to product and formula I use despite the date and change in Glidden product recently. 

http://jackpauhl.blogspot.com/2007/10/nice-ceiling-white.html


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## NCPaint1

You guys all kill me. You are willing to sacrifice product to save $$$. Or find a cheaper product that helps YOUR bottom line, regardless of what quality you are providing the customer. Yet everyone gets all pizzed off when one of their customers takes the lower bid over yours, like its some great insult, and you call it being "lowballed". It makes me laugh at the double standard that lots of you seem to have. People love to preach about their "quality work", but when it comes to products, that seems to go out the window.


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## DanielMDollaPainting

NCPaint1 said:


> You guys all kill me. You are willing to sacrifice product to save $$$. Or find a cheaper product that helps YOUR bottom line, regardless of what product you are providing the customer. Yet everyone gets all pizzed off when one of their customers takes the lower bid over yours, like its some great insult, and you call it being "lowballed". It makes me laugh at the double standard that lots of you seem to have.


 I don't lowball. My rates are competitive with other contractors in my area.PM 400 is fine for ceilings. Why use anything more. Point is paint at Lowes is 10$ cheaper for the same comparable product at SW. The Sheetrock 5 min. patch I use is priced on the shelf at almost 8$ at SW. I can buy it at HD for 4.50$. My SW manager makes a great salary (I know he bragged about it) to twiddle his thumbs all day in an empty store. Maybe I should be working at SW instead of painting. They are rated as one of the top 100 fortune 500 companies to work for.


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## jack pauhl

Price has nothing to do with why I use 150


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## Different Strokes

NCPaint1 said:


> You guys all kill me. You are willing to sacrifice product to save $$$. Or find a cheaper product that helps YOUR bottom line, regardless of what quality you are providing the customer. Yet everyone gets all pizzed off when one of their customers takes the lower bid over yours, like its some great insult, and you call it being "lowballed". It makes me laugh at the double standard that lots of you seem to have. People love to preach about their "quality work", but when it comes to products, that seems to go out the window.



I know what your saying NC, trust me. The whole "lowballer" thing has been b%#ched about forever. I won't pretend I can compete with them or waste my time getting upset, but I also won't be putting "Aura" in the specs for a commercial repaint. 

and please don't say I preach about "quality work", There are jobs I use top of the line products, but my work is horrible, and the finish will last forever.


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## jack pauhl

NC, I would be interested to know how any flat paint for a ceiling from Benjamin Moore would benefit results over Ultra-hide 150. What will your suggested product do better? I would like to clearly understand your perspective from someone selling paints.


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## NCPaint1

jack pauhl said:


> NC, I would be interested to know how any flat paint for a ceiling from Benjamin Moore would benefit results over Ultra-hide 150. What will your suggested product do better? I would like to clearly understand your perspective from someone selling paints.


Jack I'm not doubting your methods, or calling you out on anything. I can't comment on the valspar, I have no experience with it. So for me to try and spec a comparable BM product would be difficult. I'd be solely relying on data sheet comparisons and pricing.

It just annoys me that so many decisions are based on cost alone. You don't seem to do that at all. I've read enough of your posts to know that you are all about the best product for a particular application regardless of cost.


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