# Torn on cabinet coating



## Lynchburg

I have been doing my cabinets in Emerald Urethan and love the way they come out and clients have been happy too. I am looking to always give a better product to them based on my ability and have been recently thinking of starting to use pigmented lacquer. I am hoping yall can help me with the decision.

1. I have been told that with the PL I would have to sand all would down to raw to get the primer to adhere and cover is that true? 

2. Also been told that the PL is able to be cleaned up with water like the EU i am using. 

3. My biggest question is if the PL can be brushed/rolled or does it have to be all sprayed. Right now I spray all my doors/drawers at home in my booth but do the frames by and hand. My clients know this and like that I don't have to tape their entire kitchen off and spray everything while trying to remove vapor from the house. I price my jobs out accordingly because of this. Can I keep the same method if I use the PL or do I have to change? 

4. Is PL explosive? My booth is in my garage but so is my gas furnace and hot water heater. My booth is all closed up with plastic and zippers along with 2000 cfm pulling out overspray and vapors. Would I be ok to even spray PL there?

Thanks for the help


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## mug

Check out the Safety and Technical sheets about the products you want to use. Talk to your supplier. Diligently search about the product. Do some product testing before you commit to a kitchen!


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## Masterwork

I've been eyeing Envirolak, because it's easy to get in Canada. It's water based, so no boom boom, but the VOCs are still high.


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## IKnowNothing

Masterwork said:


> I've been eyeing Envirolak, because it's easy to get in Canada. It's water based, so no boom boom, *but the VOCs are still high.*


Strange.
I just checked their website and they are claiming the opposite.

"Low VOC’s, no formaldehyde, no isocyanate, no flammable solvents, all the performance. Better for finishers and better for consumers. Just better."

But I wouldn't worry that much about VOCs.
VOCs are overrated, over exaggerated, over-hyped. 
I mean, it's important to have them lower rather than higher but the perceived dangers from them are being made into a huge monster.
Bit similar to green house gasses hysteria. 

I would just use their product with clear conscious. Sounds like a great product.


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## finishesbykevyn

IKnowNothing said:


> Strange.
> I just checked their website and they are claiming the opposite.
> 
> "Low VOC’s, no formaldehyde, no isocyanate, no flammable solvents, all the performance. Better for finishers and better for consumers. Just better."
> 
> But I wouldn't worry that much about VOCs.
> VOCs are overrated, over exaggerated, over-hyped.
> I mean, it's important to have them lower rather than higher but the perceived dangers from them are being made into a huge monster.
> Bit similar to green house gasses hysteria.
> 
> I would just use their product with clear conscious. Sounds like a great product.


This does sound like great poduct. Interesting, they claim that thier products are brush/roll friendly, but the tds only talks about spraying. The 2 white base products also look like they tack up in minutes which would mean you would have to be moving! 
I wonder if A: They are tintable and B: if you can go over old finishes. I know alot of these finishes including Lenmar have a maximum 5mm dft. 
I imagine most of these products would work best on raw wood, which would mean completely removing the old finish. (This is much more work obviously)
Also, if you getting into that kind of prep work, you will most likely be bagging everthing off anyhow to protect for all the dust. At this point you may as well just spray it all..


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## Masterwork

Lol yeah, it's not as bad as some stuff. I'm just extra paranoid. I had a baby back in May, so now I'm looking into all the safety stuff more carefully. 😛


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## Masterwork

finishesbykevyn said:


> This does sound like great poduct. Interesting, they claim that thier products are brush/roll friendly, but the tds only talks about spraying. The 2 white base products also look like they tack up in minutes which would mean you would have to be moving!
> I wonder if A: They are tintable and B: if you can go over old finishes. I know alot of these finishes including Lenmar have a maximum 5mm dft.
> I imagine most of these products would work best on raw wood, which would mean completely removing the old finish. (This is much more work obviously)
> Also, if you getting into that kind of prep work, you will most likely be bagging everthing off anyhow to protect for all the dust. At this point you may as well just spray it all..


I got in touch with the Envirolak ceo, of all people, and he said the following:

"Hi Mike, yes we do. I suggest PR170TB Tannin blocking primer with our 200 or 100 series tinted to the desired color for top coat. Feel free to call me if you have any questions. Thanks, Stef"

In a follow up email:

"Works great with Airless 310 tip for primer 308 for top coat. You can use HVLP but you might need to reduce it. You can use water or our RX010 reducer at 5% max which cuts the visc 5x more than water."

So it can go over existing finishes. He also recommended their clear coat, for extra durability, but it's optional.


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## finishesbykevyn

Masterwork said:


> I got in touch with the Envirolak ceo, of all people, and he said the following:
> 
> "Hi Mike, yes we do. I suggest PR170TB Tannin blocking primer with our 200 or 100 series tinted to the desired color for top coat. Feel free to call me if you have any questions. Thanks, Stef"
> 
> In a follow up email:
> 
> "Works great with Airless 310 tip for primer 308 for top coat. You can use HVLP but you might need to reduce it. You can use water or our RX010 reducer at 5% max which cuts the visc 5x more than water."
> 
> So it can go over existing finishes. He also recommended their clear coat, for extra durability, but it's optional.


So he actually said it can go over existing products?


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## IKnowNothing

finishesbykevyn said:


> So he actually said it can go over existing products?


Here is interesting video testing that product: 

Envirolak Waterbase Finishes.
This week we are looking at a Canadian company called Envirolak. 
This coating by Envirolak is one of the most impressive 1k waterbase coatings I have seen on the market. 
Their goal was to create a conversion varnish finish without adding crosslinkers or hardners. 
I have to say I think they hit the mark.


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## IKnowNothing

Here is another video on it:

Envirolak 170 primer and 200 Pigmented Series.
This week we take a look at the Envirolak 200 pigmented finish
The 170 primer is one of the best waterbase primers on the market and the 200 series has the look 
feel and duribility that we have come to expect from Italian Coatings. 
Envirolak doesnt disapoint with the 200 series product line.







**MY TIP**
I like to watch most of the YouTube videos in faster speed than Normal.
I save time that way.
In YTube video go to the settings and choose Playback speed.
From Normal choose faster speed. 
Some videos are totally fine watching at 1.5 speed. Others even at 2.0
Especially when the person speaks slow. Super time saver, and you still get the point they are making.


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## irishjim21

I have extensive experience with spraying all coatings. 

Emerald is not a cabinet grade finish. You can make it look decent, but not cabinet quality, nor is its durability. 

I have tried MANY waterbourne lacquers. They are good. Look good. Hold up better then emerald, but still not amazing. If you are looking to get your clients the best product I think you need to just step up to solvent based coatings. 

Conversion varnish or a 2k coating is where its at. Yes you will have to mask off the kitchen. And run a fan. You will get good at is and its no big deal. 

As far as explosive, I am not sure why people get so crazy about it. So do you know how thick your vapor cloud would have to be to ignite?? you would not even be able to see what you are doing. There is a learning curve, and you really want to use an Air assisted pump. But if you want to play in the big leagues and be a pro, this is where its at my friend. Been down the same road you are on for many years. Wish someone had just told me then what I just told you now


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## IKnowNothing

irishjim21 said:


> I have extensive experience with spraying all coatings.
> 
> Emerald is not a cabinet grade finish. You can make it look decent, but not cabinet quality, nor is its durability.
> 
> I have tried MANY waterbourne lacquers. They are good. Look good. Hold up better then emerald, but still not amazing. If you are looking to get your clients the best product I think you need to just step up to solvent based coatings.
> 
> Conversion varnish or a 2k coating is where its at. Yes you will have to mask off the kitchen. And run a fan. You will get good at is and its no big deal.
> 
> *As far as explosive, I am not sure why people get so crazy about it*. So do you know how thick your vapor cloud would have to be to ignite?? you would not even be able to see what you are doing. There is a learning curve, and you really want to use an Air assisted pump. But if you want to play in the big leagues and be a pro, this is where its at my friend. Been down the same road you are on for many years. Wish someone had just told me then what I just told you now


I REALLY like the info you are sharing on different cabinet finishes.
Sure you are hard core high-quality guy. FULL RESPECT FOR THAT TO YOU!!!
But as you know, sometimes customer budgets, are not there.

So*far there is no millions of law-suites related to using of more user & customer friendly products on their kitchen cabinets, but less explosive during application. .
*
As far as explosive,*
...WELL, let's cut to the chase here,....some poor plebs claimed that their houses blew up and burned to the ground because the painters used some potentially explosive "miracle".

I believe *Redux* has few multimillion dollar mansions being reduced to ashes. ={future fertile community gardens]=
because of the ---not so thick vapors in the huge mansion kitchen.
KitchenS in those mansions almost as big as some of the 1 bedroom apartments. Or at least a bachelor suites.

I don't question your expertise, but when it comes to having potential "BUM-BUM" ,I rather keep all the windows and doors open, and all the fans on ON.
Oh, and BTW, ......all THE GAS sources FULLY TURNED OFF. 
Not taking any silly chances. 


BUT. I'M A chicken when it comes to BUM-BUMS. 
NO BALLS - Just pure logic.

:smile:

.


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## Masterwork

irishjim21 said:


> I have extensive experience with spraying all coatings.
> 
> Emerald is not a cabinet grade finish. You can make it look decent, but not cabinet quality, nor is its durability.
> 
> I have tried MANY waterbourne lacquers. They are good. Look good. Hold up better then emerald, but still not amazing. If you are looking to get your clients the best product I think you need to just step up to solvent based coatings.
> 
> Conversion varnish or a 2k coating is where its at. Yes you will have to mask off the kitchen. And run a fan. You will get good at is and its no big deal.
> 
> As far as explosive, I am not sure why people get so crazy about it. So do you know how thick your vapor cloud would have to be to ignite?? you would not even be able to see what you are doing. There is a learning curve, and you really want to use an Air assisted pump. But if you want to play in the big leagues and be a pro, this is where its at my friend. Been down the same road you are on for many years. Wish someone had just told me then what I just told you now


A lot of these guys, like you, don't read the data sheets. It's a very low % needed for boom boom, and the flashpoint on some stuff is 10 Celsius, which is lower than room temperature. All you need is for a spark in your exhaust fan, or your pant legs rubbing together and making enough friction for a spark. Then goodbye.

I'm interested in 100% explosion proof coatings, because I don't feel like buy several $1000 exhaust fans. I'm also a fan of living.


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## Redux

Just wanted to clarify that it wasn’t Redux’s company that burned down two “former” clients’ homes and/or accessory buildings, rather it was the result of homeowners bringing in other paint companies for future work, one involving the total loss of an $11 million home and the 2nd involved a $900K loss of a detached 2 story garage where the painters were applying maintenance coatings on $350K worth of mahogany screen doors & sun screen-shutters, the garage fire being the result of linseed oil soaked rags spontaneously combusting, and not a flash fire.

I had also made mention of one of my hardwood flooring vendors/suppliers on a project unrelated to my business having sealed hardwood flooring with lacquer sanding sealer which was applied with a lambs wool applicator resulting in a flash fire. The ignition source was was nothing more than a static discharge, and one static spark is all it took in combination with the volatile flammable solvents to result in an explosion. Had the worker not been standing in an open entry doorway when the fireball engulfed the interior of the home, it could have easily involved loss of life as it had with other floor finishers. The claim that it takes a visible vapor cloud through atomized means to result in a flash fire is a dangerous misconception.

Town code in my jurisdiction doesn’t permit solvent borne coatings to be applied by atomized means including oil based finishes, aside from in a permitted spray facility. The code was drafted in conjunction with the local fire authorities due to mishaps resulting in loss of life and/or property.


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## Rbriggs82

Maybe I'll start turning off the pilot light on my water heater where I spray bin all the time. I've got a good ventilation system going in the spray booth but better safe than sorry. 

Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk


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## Redux

Rbriggs82 said:


> Maybe I'll start turning off the pilot light on my water heater where I spray bin all the time. I've got a good ventilation system going in the spray booth but better safe than sorry.
> 
> Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk


Smart move.

https://lni.wa.gov/safety-health/safety-research/files/2004/FlashFire.pdf


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## mug

Rbriggs82 said:


> Maybe I'll start turning off the pilot light on my water heater where I spray bin all the time. I've got a good ventilation system going in the spray booth but better safe than sorry.
> 
> Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk


I need to make a booth inside my shop so maybe you can share some ideas. 
What I like about BIN is I can open up the shop doors as it can be applied all the way down to 0 degrees. Still using the waterbased topcoats otherwise.


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## Rbriggs82

mug said:


> I need to make a booth inside my shop so maybe you can share some ideas.
> What I like about BIN is I can open up the shop doors as it can be applied all the way down to 0 degrees. Still using the waterbased topcoats otherwise.


There's a thread on here somewhere that I shared my setup with pictures. Ive changed it up alittle since then but close enough I also added this air filter which is perfect for my little shop.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B079F98HBG/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_g3kKFb4GE6JEG

It's sitting on the floor just behind my spray racks and is vented out. Not a spec of dust leaves the booth. 

Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk


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## Masterwork

Is that fan explosion proof?

This is the cheapest one I can find in Canada. You also buy explosion proof ventilation ducting, basically prevents any static. 
https://www.deelat.ca/ducting-and-f...kY0dUHjZhas4uzzz16uUQIYjWKzbH7Q8aAjTZEALw_wcB


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## IKnowNothing

Redux said:


> Just wanted to clarify that it wasn’t Redux’s company that burned down two “former” clients’ homes and/or accessory buildings, rather it was the result of homeowners bringing in other paint companies for future work, one involving the total loss of an $11 million home and the 2nd involved a $900K loss of a detached 2 story garage where the painters were applying maintenance coatings on $350K worth of mahogany screen doors & sun screen-shutters, the garage fire being the result of linseed oil soaked rags spontaneously combusting, and not a flash fire.
> 
> I had also made mention of one of my hardwood flooring vendors/suppliers on a project unrelated to my business having sealed hardwood flooring with lacquer sanding sealer which was applied with a lambs wool applicator resulting in a flash fire. The ignition source was was nothing more than a static discharge, and one static spark is all it took in combination with the volatile flammable solvents to result in an explosion. Had the worker not been standing in an open entry doorway when the fireball engulfed the interior of the home, it could have easily involved loss of life as it had with other floor finishers. The claim that it takes a visible vapor cloud through atomized means to result in a flash fire is a dangerous misconception.
> 
> Town code in my jurisdiction doesn’t permit solvent borne coatings to be applied by atomized means including oil based finishes, aside from in a permitted spray facility. The code was drafted in conjunction with the local fire authorities due to mishaps resulting in loss of life and/or property.


YES, my apology to you good Sir.*Redux* for not making this clear in my post.
I hope that your examples will make some painters here to start thinking logically and invest in proper set ups. 
Being cheap and not willing to invest money in proper ventilation should have you being asked to live customers home and refusing your services. 
When/If you blow up your own workshop hopefully only you will suffer (_financially & physically_) and not your neighbors. 

.


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## finishesbykevyn

Masterwork said:


> Is that fan explosion proof?
> 
> This is the cheapest one I can find in Canada. You also buy explosion proof ventilation ducting, basically prevents any static.
> https://www.deelat.ca/ducting-and-f...kY0dUHjZhas4uzzz16uUQIYjWKzbH7Q8aAjTZEALw_wcB


Funny, I've been looking into these fans also. You can get a good blower for around $275, but as soon as they are explosion proof the price jumps to $1900.
All I've been running in my little shop is a bathroom Fan. Seems to work pretty good, but I'm still freaked out everytime I spray BIN.


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## IKnowNothing

In case of explosion and fire, I'm sure Home Insurance Company will have super easy time to decline the claim after 'bum-bum' site get's searched for signs of proper air explosion proof ventilation system and finding none.

Yes, $1000 or $1500 is worth the risk.
LOL

Oh, I know. But is working OK for so many years. Why to change it now and spend all that money on some fancy air fan.
Well, it will take one day some weird air movement, some unexpected air turbulence, and the regular air fan will not perform as always did.
And *-BUM!!!- *


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## yenu1293

Maybe your house is narrow but sharing your booth and gas furnace and hot water heater in the garage is not a good idea, you know paint can be splashed everywhere, it is very flammable.


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## Redux

finishesbykevyn said:


> Funny, I've been looking into these fans also. You can get a good blower for around $275, but as soon as they are explosion proof the price jumps to $1900.
> All I've been running in my little shop is a bathroom Fan. Seems to work pretty good, but I'm still freaked out everytime I spray BIN.


I was looking into that same unit a couple of years ago for site finishing ~ 15,000 liner ft of t&g engineered white oak paneling which was spec’d to be finished with conversion varnish.

I had calculated the unit’s CFMs based on the 30 m/s spec, and if my arithmetic was accurate and my memory serves me correctly I came up with only ~ 500 CFMs which was insufficient for the project at hand, or even for a smaller spray booth. I ended up nixing the idea and outsourced the finishing to the fabricator who shop finished it instead.

Edit: My memory did fail to serve me correctly, it was actually 2000 CFMs and not 500...my wrong

If you’re looking for a shop exhaust fan rather than a portable setup, the self contained explosion proof exhaust fans & filtration units @ the following link are a pretty affordable option, providing threefold the CFM’s in a similar price range with the added benefit of filtration. I’ve also included a link to pricing options and performance data.

https://carljbushcompany.com/fans/f...s/model-caf-l942-2x-large-filtered-wall-fans/

https://www.airdistributor.net/p-38...oof-cfm-range-520-18750-sizes-12-thru-48.aspx

One caution on filters: I had outsourced some cabinet finishing to a millwork shop a few years ago and spec’d out a urethane-alkyd resin finish. The shop manager had informed me that the filters had spontaneously combusted after being removed for the evening. It’s their policy to remove the filters before closing shop every day and keep them in a fireproof metal cabinet outdoors. It’s a smart practice when shooting solvent borne finishes.

In my two former shops’ spray booths we had through-framing & hard wired explosion proof Dayton fans by Grainger. They removed all the worries when shooting solvent borne finishes. They were a smart investment at the time, not costing all that much if installed by one’s self. I’d probably opt for the self contained filter & fan option had I done it again.


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## Masterwork

Good warning about the filters. I guess you need to treat them the same as dirty rags: either submerged in water or stored in a fireproof area.

I also did the math on that fan. For the size of my portable spray booth, I'd need two of them, plus several hundred dollars of explosion proof vent hose. It would take awhile to pay it off. I'm going to stick to waterbased stuff for now.


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## Lynchburg

mug said:


> I need to make a booth inside my shop so maybe you can share some ideas.
> What I like about BIN is I can open up the shop doors as it can be applied all the way down to 0 degrees. Still using the waterbased topcoats otherwise.


Hey man I made a booth in my garage, I can take some pictures of it later and share with you how I did it. It works well enough that I don't get overspray on anything and you can breathe in there no problem. Some smell in the house but nothing very strong.


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## Masterwork

I was too lazy to build my own. Cut a hole for a box fan and it works quite well.


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## Lynchburg

Okay so I am going to stay with waterbase products after doing more reading and research for my cabinets. I was hoping yall can help me with some of the knowledge as I am getting confused. I am looking at Renner, Milesi, and General Finishes as they all seem to put out good products that give good results. I really want to continue brushing and rolling the frame as my clients like that they don't lose their kitchen due to everything being masked off (yes I know spray gives a better product) so not sure if one of these brands will brush and roll better than the other. I tallked to some people with Renner today and only got more confused with 1k, 2k, cat, pre cat and so forth. I asked them about brushing and rolling and just got told to spray lol. Can yall help with info on these brands?


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## Lynchburg

Masterwork said:


> I was too lazy to build my own. Cut a hole for a box fan and it works quite well.


I love paintline and had I not built a booth I would have bought that one and used it


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## Rbriggs82

I havent used it yet but I spoke to milesi, they said it can be brush and rolled. 

Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk


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## Lynchburg

Rbriggs82 said:


> I havent used it yet but I spoke to milesi, they said it can be brush and rolled.
> 
> Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk


Who did you talk to because I have been trying and can't find a number to call. I had the same problem with Renner today only getting places that sell the product. I really want to talk to someone that can give me info to better understand the product and how it would work for me. I know Mug has Milesi this product from search on cabinet paint. I will have to see if I can pick his brain.


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## Rbriggs82

Lynchburg said:


> Who did you talk to because I have been trying and can't find a number to call. I had the same problem with Renner today only getting places that sell the product. I really want to talk to someone that can give me info to better understand the product and how it would work for me. I know Mug has Milesi this product from search on cabinet paint. I will have to see if I can pick his brain.


That's who's brain I picked. Ispoke to Clark Deco, a company that sells it not the manufacturer. 

Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk


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## Lynchburg

Rbriggs82 said:


> That's who's brain I picked. Ispoke to Clark Deco, a company that sells it not the manufacturer.
> 
> Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk


I have their website pulled up to call tomorrow and hope they can ship it to VA for me.


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## Rbriggs82

Lynchburg said:


> I have their website pulled up to call tomorrow and hope they can ship it to VA for me.


They were willing to ship it to SC for me so they'll ship it to you. They said to give them a week lead time when ordering and will match any sw/bm colors. 

Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk


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## mug

Lynchburg said:


> Rbriggs82 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's who's brain I picked. Ispoke to Clark Deco, a company that sells it not the manufacturer.
> 
> Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> I have their website pulled up to call tomorrow and hope they can ship it to VA for me.
Click to expand...

They can answer your questions for sure and I have it shipped to TN from there with no problems. I have been adding the hardener when spraying the doors. I brush and roll the frames. They recommend Ltc5 and some distilled water when brushing and it does help with the flow. 
General Finishes Enduro pigmented poly sprays fantastic with an HVLP, but I can never get it to match when brush and roll.


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## Lynchburg

mug said:


> They can answer your questions for sure and I have it shipped to TN from there with no problems. I have been adding the hardener when spraying the doors. I brush and roll the frames. They recommend Ltc5 and some distilled water when brushing and it does help with the flow.
> General Finishes Enduro pigmented poly sprays fantastic with an HVLP, but I can never get it to match when brush and roll.


Thanks so much. I like the idea of spraying the doors with the harder and doing the frames with brush and roller. I also was looking at GF today while researching and was going to call them. 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## Lynchburg

I wanted to share the spray booth I made in my garage. I used spare wood, shower rings, heavy duty plastic, garage door track, velcro, zip wall zippers, dryer duct work, pvc and 3 inflatable motors for a totally of 3000 cfm! I have no issues with over spray outside if the booth or fumes in the garage or house. It is next to my hot water and hvac but I have no issues and my wife can still park in the garage









Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## finishesbykevyn

Lynchburg said:


> I wanted to share the spray booth I made in my garage. I used spare wood, shower rings, heavy duty plastic, garage door track, velcro, zip wall zippers, dryer duct work, pvc and 3 inflatable motors for a totally of 3000 cfm! I have no issues with over spray outside if the booth or fumes in the garage or house. It is next to my hot water and hvac but I have no issues and my wife can still park in the garage
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


That's pretty crafty Lynchburg. Why did you vent out the door? Was that the old cat door?! Don't get any overspray on your wetsuit. Haha.


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## Lynchburg

finishesbykevyn said:


> That's pretty crafty Lynchburg. Why did you vent out the door? Was that the old cat door?! Don't get any overspray on your wetsuit. Haha.


Yeah cant get the wetsuit messed up lol. I actually cut the holle in the door to vent out so that I could keep the garage closed so no bugs get into the fresh painted cabinets, and I have a heater in there for when it gets cold.


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## Lynchburg

@mug you are the man for telling me about the milesi products and Clark Deco. I just spent 40 minutes on the phone talking with the best customer service person ever. She got me all straight with their products and is sending me out a sample pack. I can't wait to start using it


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## Rbriggs82

Sample pack!? They didn't tell me that was an option.


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## tomaszg

Masterwork said:


> I've been eyeing Envirolak, because it's easy to get in Canada. It's water based, so no boom boom, but the VOCs are still high.


Same here I’m about to ride a gallon of 170 TB primer and test it I read a lot of good things about this primer


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## Masterwork

Definitely let us know how it goes.


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## mug

Rbriggs82 said:


> Sample pack!? They didn't tell me that was an option.


Hey me either! Wonder what the products were.


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## Lynchburg

mug said:


> Hey me either! Wonder what the products were.


Shes sending me a sample of all their primers, isolante, the cat, and top coat in eggshell. I must have used my flattering voice over the phone and batted my eyes

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## mug

Ha! Awesome.. Let us know your results!


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## Lynchburg

mug said:


> Ha! Awesome.. Let us know your results!


What sheen have you done your cabinets in? They told a lot of people do eggshell a d satin

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## Redux

Having stated this before I’ll add my $.02 again about the hazards of isocyanate 2K finishes based on having regularly used isocyanate catalyzed 2K solvent borne coatings beginning some 34 years ago followed by regularly using isocyanate 2K catalyzed waterborne coatings beginning some 13 years ago. 

Being a living testament to repeated isocyanate exposures and becoming sensitized to them, as well as having developed occupational asthma as a result of working with them, shooting isocyanate 2K finishes in either an occupied home or an attached home shop is just plain dumb. All it takes is one overexposure to become sensitized and/or experience an adverse reaction. The general rule of thumb for overexposure is if you can smell the finish, chances are you’ve been overexposed, and all it takes is “once” to result in sensitization and/or developing respiratory problems. 

I was on a MIG welding forum where a member posted his personal account of having used an isocyanate 2K PU finish for the first time which resulted the member being rushed to the ER after going into respiratory arrest, where he later arrived at the ER with no vitals. Luckily for him he was able to be revived. According to his account he was shooting a 2K Poly in a well ventilated outdoor shed with two exhaust fans running, yet was wearing only a 3M N-95 mask. 

Below is an article on the CDC’s website entitled “Preventing Asthma and Death from Diisocyanate Exposure”. 

Preventing Asthma and Death from Diisocyanate Exposure DHHS | NIOSH | CDC


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## Lynchburg

Redux said:


> Having stated this before I’ll add my $.02 again about the hazards of isocyanate 2K finishes based on having regularly used isocyanate catalyzed 2K solvent borne coatings beginning some 34 years ago followed by regularly using isocyanate 2K catalyzed waterborne coatings beginning some 13 years ago.
> 
> Being a living testament to repeated isocyanate exposures and becoming sensitized to them, as well as having developed occupational asthma as a result of working with them, shooting isocyanate 2K finishes in either an occupied home or an attached home shop is just plain dumb. All it takes is one overexposure to become sensitized and/or experience an adverse reaction. The general rule of thumb for overexposure is if you can smell the finish, chances are you’ve been overexposed, and all it takes is “once” to result in sensitization and/or developing respiratory problems.
> 
> I was on a MIG welding forum where a member posted his personal account of having used an isocyanate 2K PU finish for the first time which resulted the member being rushed to the ER after going into respiratory arrest, where he later arrived at the ER with no vitals. Luckily for him he was able to be revived. According to his account he was shooting a 2K Poly in a well ventilated outdoor shed with two exhaust fans running, yet was wearing only a 3M N-95 mask.
> 
> Below is an article on the CDC’s website entitled “Preventing Asthma and Death from Diisocyanate Exposure”.
> 
> Preventing Asthma and Death from Diisocyanate Exposure DHHS | NIOSH | CDC


Would you recommend then just not adding the harder and keeping it at 1k. They told me the paint would be the same just that when adding the harder it would help with chemical resistance on the cabinets. Inhave always just used 1k

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## Masterwork

There are ways to do it safely... the pictures you posted of your spray booth would not do it. You'd want a separate building, not attached to your house, a full monkey suit with one of those fresh air filters that goes on your back/belt.


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## Lynchburg

Thanks for that info, looks like I will have to just leave it as 1k. Or maybe I can build a separate building to spray in.


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## Rbriggs82

After reading your post Redux, I think 1k will do just fine without adding the hardener.


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## mug

Lynchburg said:


> What sheen have you done your cabinets in? They told a lot of people do eggshell a d satin
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


I used the 20 sheen/gloss. It's perfect unless you want the high gloss. 
This stuff is very good in 1k, however adding the hardener makes it unbelievable. 
I've only been doing the door fronts in 2k and sprayed outside at my shop. I have been debating the hazards and already looked into the fresh air suits. I just need to frame up a paint booth with some good exhaust. I feel the costs are worth it since these clients are paying anywhere from 3 to 8k for painting cabinets.


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## Lynchburg

mug said:


> I used the 20 sheen/gloss. It's perfect unless you want the high gloss.
> This stuff is very good in 1k, however adding the hardener makes it unbelievable.
> I've only been doing the door fronts in 2k and sprayed outside at my shop. I have been debating the hazards and already looked into the fresh air suits. I just need to frame up a paint booth with some good exhaust. I feel the costs are worth it since these clients are paying anywhere from 3 to 8k for painting cabinets.


Thats good input, I appreciate it. I was currently am not in the same ballpark price wise but that was when I was using SW emerald urethane and I had it priced for the quality of paint and my clients knew that. Sounds like once I get this figured out I may be able to get a little more high end jobs also

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## mug

Lynchburg said:


> Thats good input, I appreciate it. I was currently am not in the same ballpark price wise but that was when I was using SW emerald urethane and I had it priced for the quality of paint and my clients knew that. Sounds like once I get this figured out I may be able to get a little more high end jobs also
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


Here are pictures of some doors I put back on this morning. Frames were brushed an rolled. Matches perfect! I took a hard angle picture to show the sheen level.


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## finishesbykevyn

Honestly @ Redux. That read up on issocyanates is enough to scare the pants off you. 1K is also fine with me thanks..


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## Lynchburg

mug said:


> Here are pictures of some doors I put back on this morning. Frames were brushed an rolled. Matches perfect! I took a hard angle picture to show the sheen level.


Those look great I really like that sheen. What color is that?

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## mug

Lynchburg said:


> Those look great I really like that sheen. What color is that?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


It's SW 0013 Majolica Green. Customer loved it. When you order your paint with Clark deco use a SW or BM color as they can readily mix those.


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## Rbriggs82

How well does it cover on frames going to white and does it b&r nice?


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## mug

The first coat applied over BIN goes on really. smooth with a brush and short nap roller. Covers in 2 or sometimes 1 coat. It's that second coat that bites into itself. They recommend applying the second within 1 to 3 hours. I am still kind of messing around with the dry times and adding 5%water. 
It would be best to work in sections on the frames if brushing.


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## Lynchburg

mug said:


> The first coat applied over BIN goes on really. smooth with a brush and short nap roller. Covers in 2 or sometimes 1 coat. It's that second coat that bites into itself. They recommend applying the second within 1 to 3 hours. I am still kind of messing around with the dry times and adding 5%water.
> It would be best to work in sections on the frames if brushing.


Are you using the shellac version if so do you notice if it smells any better than say the SW version?


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## mug

Yes the shellac. Smell is gone quickly! SW is the same basically.


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