# Need Any And All Replies Asap!



## dcbpainting (Aug 4, 2009)

Hello all in Cyber Space :thumbup:

I need help, I'm located in Florida and I'm slowly trying to dabble in bigger commercial projects. I've been in the residential market for a decade and a half and every blue moon I might come across a commercial office or store.
Well I'm sorry to say but the residential market is drying out fast!!!
So I'm currently bidding on 160,000 sq.ft. of single ply typeLon pvc roofing that's to be coated with a Urethane waterproofing membrane. The surface is flat and high in the air. We're to bid labor only and application is by roller and brush only. 
I need help on what is a good competative rate per sq. ft. for this type of coating? In plain text "WHAT SHOULD I CHARGE"? Thanks 4 yur help!:notworthy:


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## TooledUp (May 17, 2008)

:scooter: :hang: :whistling2:

Click here


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## dcbpainting (Aug 4, 2009)

Thanks, I guess! Anyone esle care to respond?


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## TooledUp (May 17, 2008)

So mine was the wrong answer? I guess you didn't absorb any of Brian's logic...


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

aren't you at least somewhat scared at the fact that you don't have any idea what to charge for a job that you're considering taking on? This job sounds pretty big, it sounds like you've never used the product before or done any work similar to this, on your own or as a employee. Why would you want to do this job in the first place then? Don't say the money, because its clear by your OP that you are completely in the dark about it.


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## waho6o9 (Jun 3, 2009)

T & M. Good luck. :thumbsup:


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

find the brand of coating and call the manufacturer. They can sometimes let you know what their system goes for pricewise, but you will definately need to talk to them about how to apply. Once you have that info you can figure out what it will take.


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## onthecoast (Mar 4, 2009)

If a job is too big and I know it, I'd just walk away. I wouldn't want to end up doing the job for peanuts, or applying anything that I've never used before.


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

dcbpainting said:


> "WHAT SHOULD I CHARGE"?


AMAYCG

or

AMATMWB

This is using the WAG or SWAG method of pricing.


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## TooledUp (May 17, 2008)

ProWallGuy said:


> AMAYCG
> 
> or
> 
> ...


ROTFLLALOC :lol:


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

I guess this poor guys not going to get any help.You have to forgive us, we have had so many questions like this that a lot of us are weary,and it being your first post and all.It does sound like you skipped a few key areas in your job/bid progress.I think first of all, I would want to know all I can about this type of roofing, and coatings. Roofing work has it own set of things to think about that can give you problems.One of the big things with roofing work on a flat roof is ponding water, this can be a big deal when you want to coat a roof and you can't get th water off. Another is insurance. Do you have coverage for roofing work?


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

johnpaint said:


> I guess this poor guys not going to get any help.You have to forgive us, we have had so many questions like this that a lot of us are weary,and it being your first post and all.It does sound like you skipped a few key areas in your job/bid progress.I think first of all, I would want to know all I can about this type of roofing, and coatings. Roofing work has it own set of things to think about that can give you problems.One of the big things with roofing work on a flat roof is ponding water, this can be a big deal when you want to coat a roof and you can't get th water off. Another is insurance. Do you have coverage for roofing work?


That is alot of sqft. to not know your pricing on. Can you cover the payroll for that until they pay??? could be 30-60-90 days.

Like many have been told before, Please look through the archives on this topic.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

dcbpainting said:


> Hello all in Cyber Space :thumbup:
> 
> I need help, I'm located in Florida and I'm slowly trying to dabble in bigger commercial projects. I've been in the residential market for a decade and a half and every blue moon I might come across a commercial office or store.
> Well I'm sorry to say but the residential market is drying out fast!!!
> ...



It's great that you want to slowly dabble in bigger commercial projects.

May I recommend that you do just that and not jump in the deep end the first chance you get?

It sounds like this is well beyond your experience, expertise, and knowledge. I have a feeling that many here would hate to see you get in way over your head and thus are reluctant to enable you. 

Is there a chance you can find someone with experience with this type of work and coating that would be willing to work with you on this?

just thinking of your financial well being.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

daArch said:


> It's great that you want to slowly dabble in bigger commercial projects.
> 
> May I recommend that you do just that and not jump in the deep end the first chance you get?
> 
> ...


Good Answer:thumbsup:


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

I don't agree with most of the advice on this thread. I am not saying the advice is wrong (actually it is probably the most reasonable sound advice). But sometimes, you gotta take a chance every now and then. True, you are going straight from dabbling to jumping off a cliff, but there is something said for getting out of your comfort zone.

Talk to your paint rep. That is what they are there for. Add 10% on to their spreadrate. Convert it to hours and charge your hourly rate. As long as you don't lose your ass even if you just break even, consider it an investment. Learn from the experience. In other words, go for it!


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

You don't "take a chance" like this. Going from resi to commercial is a whole different animal. Especially with a coating you are not familiar with. This is not the time and place to learn, the op would be much better off to sub it to a qualified contractor or just pass.


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

RCP said:


> You don't "take a chance" like this. Going from resi to commercial is a whole different animal. Especially with a coating you are not familiar with. This is not the time and place to learn, the op would be much better off to sub it to a qualified contractor or just pass.


I disagree. The paint rep can get him in the ballpark as far as being "familar" with the coating goes. My line of thinking is this: if he is within the ballpark with his quote then it's a very doable risk. Say he loses some money on the job (not enough to break his company though). However, he creates a relationship, gains experience, gains confidence, learns what he did wrong, etc... I call that an education that was worth the investment. Plus, there is a chance he makes good money off of this job. Add that to the learning experience and I still say go for it. 

Remember, in my initial post I stated y'all are giving the most reasonable, sound advice. I still agree with that statement. But, sound and reasonable are not always the best route. My $.02.


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## DarthPainter (Jul 26, 2009)

Hmmm, this is a tough question.

Ultimately, without knowing the product and without having seen the roof myself I can't really even give you a ball park figure. My labor rates will be sky high or pretty reasonable depending on the slope/pitch of the roof, the material it's constructed out of, the shape of it, the condition it's in, the time frame, etc.

However, I'm not really going to counsel you on pricing anyways. My advice to you is to not take this job. While I'm definitely a risk taker and like to push the envelope, I can tell you that this isn't a risk, it's basically going to be a massacre. I do more or less only commercial work, and the biggest mistake residential guys make when making the transition is thinking that it's the same a residential except bigger and faster. Commercial painting is a game of politics more than anything.

I take as much pride in my work and skill as anyone, but at the end of the day, I have to be honest. My goal is to cheat the hell out of the GC and get as much cash as I can while spending as little as possible, and don't be naive, he has the same exact job; and the same is true of every other trade in a commercial job.

You're going to deal with spec books and blue prints that intentionally don't match up, and it'll cost you your ass if you don't know both backwards and forwards and keep on them when they try to get free ****. Billing is always a nightmare. Unless you have a really good GC, they will hold money from you as long as possible, and even at the end of the job will hold it in hopes that you just give up. Especially when it comes to the retainage fees.

Every other trade there is going to run over you, and the GC will encourage it because it's going to mean extras for him down the road and give him leverage against you in the future to try and backcharge you for every little mistake he finds.

And don't even get me started on architects.

Meanwhile, you need to look for every single extra you can get and slam them for it.

Basically, it's an ugly world in commercial painting, and if you're just looking for a quick buck you're going to lose your ass and quickly. That you don't know your product or specs is worrisome, but not so much as the fact that you think you're honestly going to go in and actually get your money on the pricing.

My advice: don't get into commercial unless you can get someone whose been in it a while to help you learn the ropes and watch your back.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

Well put Darth!:thumbsup:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Darth,

You paint one hell of an ugly picture - accurate, but ugly :thumbup:


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## DarthPainter (Jul 26, 2009)

Thanks. I just don't wanna see the poor guy get slaughtered because of good intentions and some poor foresight.

He's definitely right: there's tons of money in commercial painting. (My dad owns our business, and while I don't like to talk money, let's just say we both pull in good money) Until you really get through the growing pains, and unless you know what you're in for, you will get buried.


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

DarthPainter said:


> Hmmm, this is a tough question.
> 
> My advice: don't get into commercial unless you can get someone whose been in it a while to help you learn the ropes and watch your back.


The above is the best piece of advice. Go for it, but make sure you got a partner you trust.:thumbsup:


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## Metro M & L (Jul 21, 2009)

I agree with everyone who's urging caution, especially with Darth on the commercial side of things. On the other hand the whole argument that you should never ever apply a coating you've never applied is specious at best. RTFM.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Metro M & L said:


> On the other hand the whole argument that you should never ever apply a coating you've never applied is *specious* at best. RTFM.


Ahh, thank you for using a word not in the daily lexicon


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

OOh, I learned a new word! Thank you!
specious |ˈspē sh əs|
adjective
superficially plausible, but actually wrong : a specious argument.
• misleading in appearance, esp. misleadingly attractive : the music trade gives Golden Oldies a specious appearance of novelty.


I agree with you about trying new things, that is what is great about this site, we all share what we learn. But not potentially at the customer's expense.

So what is RTFM? Right this freakin' minute?


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

RCP said:


> So what is RTFM? Right this freakin' minute?


DAMN, You're quick Chris.

You must ejumakated :jester:


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

dcbpainting said:


> Hello all in Cyber Space :thumbup:
> 
> I need help, I'm located in Florida and I'm slowly trying to dabble in bigger commercial projects. I've been in the residential market for a decade and a half and every blue moon I might come across a commercial office or store.
> Well I'm sorry to say but the residential market is drying out fast!!!
> ...


It doesn't appear from your post that you'll be employing some exotic application technique that would require special training. The coating system has already been specified. Just follow material recommendations for surface preparation, mixing, pot life, recoat, etc. As far as heights, follow all standard safety protocol for roof work, and go for it!

Your issue seems to be more about what to charge. Only you have the answer to that.


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## Metro M & L (Jul 21, 2009)

rtfm = read the f'ing manual


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