# Painting Brick Fireplace



## ddemair (Nov 3, 2008)

Any recommendations for painting a brick fireplace?

The guys at my local paint store suggested just using an interior latex paint (specifically B-M Regal) and didn't think that primer was necessary. I'm inclined to agree, but I don't mind taking the extra step to use a primer if it will ensure a longer lasting job.

I already told the customers that the brick looked good as is, but it's not quite "formal" enough for them and they want it painted.


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## Dunbar Painting (Mar 19, 2010)

I would use primer... It will make the paint adhere and cover better.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Any 100% acrylic product doesn't require a primer (of course there are certain applications where priming is a must )

You could prime the brick if you wanted to, but being that its interior and assuming that its in good shape ( no stains, moisture, peeling, cracking etc..) You could paint without a primer using Regal.


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## Rob (Aug 9, 2009)

I used block fill to prime and painted it with SW Eggshell.


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## Rob (Aug 9, 2009)

Here is a close up of the before, it was not painted


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## ddemair (Nov 3, 2008)

Rob said:


> I used block fill to prime and painted it with SW Eggshell.


That looks very good. What kind/brand of block fill did you use? I should only need about 1 gallon.


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## WiseGuys Painting (Feb 22, 2010)

NCPaint1 said:


> Any 100% acrylic product doesn't require a primer (of course there are certain applications where priming is a must )
> 
> You could prime the brick if you wanted to, but being that its interior and assuming that its in good shape ( no stains, moisture, peeling, cracking etc..) You could paint without a primer using Regal.


wow when did this happen. most of the paint i use is 100% acrylic and im still using primer. do you have any paperwork that says this? primer is very important especially on brick that will heat and cool often and to extremes, block filler is a good idea but masonry primer is good also, it depends on if the homeowner wants to see the little holes in the brick or if they want a more flat slick finish. i would definately use some kind of primer, if not you will probably be going back brushing the mortar joints several times because they will suck up the paint.


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## WiseGuys Painting (Feb 22, 2010)

btw most places i shop only carry block filler in fives. but it is very cheap bout 10.00 a gallon. go with loxon primer and topcoat with whatever interior product, or i think loxon xp is self priming masonry paint but i dont know what colors you can get.


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## WiseGuys Painting (Feb 22, 2010)

nothing else to sat just wanted to see if my profile pic came out


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## ezpaintks (Mar 8, 2010)

I paint them every so often. If the HO uses the fireplace a bunch I would go to SW store and ask them to order in...think is called "fire lock" or something like that. I would prime it with that then, you can top coat it with latex for color if the HO wants a color. However, that "fire lock" is only availible in a few colors and you can leave it with just that. Hope that makes since, they have to order the stuff because it doesn't have a very long shelf life and is made is small batches.

I painted a few a few years back where the HO burns a bunch of wood and the brick gets hot. Never had a problem either leaving it with just that "fire lock" or top coating with latex.

Hope that helps! Wear gloves and long sleves when you use that stuff.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

WiseGuys Painting said:


> wow when did this happen. most of the paint i use is 100% acrylic and im still using primer. do you have any paperwork that says this? primer is very important especially on brick that will heat and cool often and to extremes, block filler is a good idea but masonry primer is good also, it depends on if the homeowner wants to see the little holes in the brick or if they want a more flat slick finish. i would definately use some kind of primer, if not you will probably be going back brushing the mortar joints several times because they will suck up the paint.


Thats a good way to do it :thumbsup: Like I said, there are certain applications where you must prime. Most brick fireplaces around here are decorative. They are gas, with brick around them. So heat really isnt an issue, neither is cold. I guess it depends on what look the customer likes, as to what "system" you go with.


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## kerk (Oct 14, 2009)

WiseGuys Painting said:


> wow when did this happen. most of the paint i use is 100% acrylic and im still using primer. do you have any paperwork that says this? primer is very important especially on brick that will heat and cool often and to extremes, block filler is a good idea but masonry primer is good also, it depends on if the homeowner wants to see the little holes in the brick or if they want a more flat slick finish. i would definately use some kind of primer, if not you will probably be going back brushing the mortar joints several times because they will suck up the paint.


I concur with NC1, as far as adhesion, in this case, there is no difference. 

I was always curious as to what the magic ingredient was that made primer stick better than paint. After 17 years behind the counter, in the field, and making lab techs crazy, I find there is none, unless you get into specialty products, like X-I-M that have extremely strong solvents to etch questionable surfaces. 

One of my favorite pastimes at the box stores is asking the paint salesperson why a primer sticks better than paint. It will be answered with a text book answer or headlight eyes.

Yes, there are 'fillers' and 'undercoaters' and 'blockers', but none of their purposes is better adhesion. An acrylic primer will not 'adhere' any better than and acrylic paint, nor will an alkyd primer 'adhere' better than an alkyd paint. And actually, fillers and undercoaters have probably 'less' adhesion ability, as the resin is heavily loaded with clay.

As I have said before, as for most retail 'primers', it is an 'added sale', and I liken it to the shampoo bottles telling you to wash your hair twice.


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## tsunamicontract (May 3, 2008)

I feel like it has to do something with the fact that paint is supposed to leave a finished surface with certain properties and primer is supposed to prepare a substrate by having certain properties. All the stuff they add to paint so that it is washable and burnish resistant and have certain gloss and gloss retention properties takes up a lot of room. When they don't need to put that stuff in primer, they have more room for things to make it stick, like binders, or things to seal surfaces or block stains.


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## kerk (Oct 14, 2009)

tsunamicontract said:


> I feel like it has to do something with the fact that paint is supposed to leave a finished surface with certain properties and primer is supposed to prepare a substrate by having certain properties. All the stuff they add to paint so that it is washable and burnish resistant and have certain gloss and gloss retention properties takes up a lot of room. When they don't need to put that stuff in primer, they have more room for things to make it stick, like binders, or things to seal surfaces or block stains.


Good point, and I have been out of the business for a while, and there are probably some advances, but generally a primer is an ad on sale. Granted, they don't usually put as much, if any, mildicide (for example) in primer, but that just lowers the price, and makes room for more clay, price wise. Generally you'll find that they don't put any more 'good' stuff in the primers, they just lower the price. Try it yourself, take a primer and a topcoat of the same vehicle and paint them both on some Formica or aluminum. After they cure (not just dry), you'll find the primer scrapes off just as easily as the paint. 

Now granted, some primers have their purpose, but rarely is 'adhesion' one of them. For instance, down in South Florida, SOP for re paints on stucco call for pressure cleaning, then priming (called sealing down there) with a clear acrylic sealer. This is simply a watered down acrylic paint with 'no' pigment. It has no pigment, and is thinned down, so it is able to 'absorb' and 'encapsulate' the chalk that is inevitably left over after pressure cleaning, so that the chalk will be much less likely to cause an adhesion problem with the topcoat.

It is more of a 'sealer' than a 'primer', but it can be considered a primer coat. Now this product 'technically' adheres better than a topcoat, but then, anything without pigment will stick better than the same mix 'with' pigment. That principle holds true with topcoats too, the less the pigment to resin ratio, the better the stick. A gloss acrylic will adhere much more than an acrylic flat, etc.

But no, as far as 'properties' go, if your surface does not need to be altered finish wise by the 'filling' properties of an undercoater, then there is no reason to use anything but one or two coats of topcoat.


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## WiseGuys Painting (Feb 22, 2010)

in my experience, on the painting end, and not the retail end, primer is very important on new surfaces. i have repaired alot of walls where the people tried to skip the primer step and then had a water leak and bam all the paint is peeling off the ceiling and walls in sheets. i would never coat new wood with gloss paint without primer and if you do youre crazy. as for brick just look at the post of the guy who has a big brick bldg peeling and fading after 1 year because the previous painter just coated with two coats ext paint. sure it may look as good and scratch off the same after a week but give it a couple years in the elements and see what is still there in the end. maybe im old school but i think it does alot of good on all new substrates.


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## Shaggy Dog (May 7, 2008)

Get some Gripper from Glidden....stuff works great on brick....we have sprayed other stuff with it like old wood trusses...3 coats of just Gripper and it was amazing the finish it had.....


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## kerk (Oct 14, 2009)

WiseGuys Painting said:


> in my experience, on the painting end, and not the retail end, primer is very important on new surfaces. i have repaired alot of walls where the people tried to skip the primer step and then had a water leak and bam all the paint is peeling off the ceiling and walls in sheets. i would never coat new wood with gloss paint without primer and if you do youre crazy. as for brick just look at the post of the guy who has a big brick bldg peeling and fading after 1 year because the previous painter just coated with two coats ext paint. sure it may look as good and scratch off the same after a week but give it a couple years in the elements and see what is still there in the end. maybe im old school but i think it does alot of good on all new substrates.


As far as water leaks and walls, if it is sheet-rock, and if the leak is behind the wall, I don't know of anything that is 'not' going to separate........even the paper on the sheet rock will pop from that at some point. 

No primer will withstand adhesion side moisture any more than paint of the same vehicle. Take any acrylic primer or paint and paint the inside of a cereal bowl. Let is cure 30 days, 60 days.......indefinitely. Fill it with water at night and in the morning you will have a floating skin.

Again, there is no 'adhesion' advantage.

As far as the 'new wood', you are absolutely correct, but wood is not a consistent surface.......soft grain will swell, so even applying an alkyd will cause a sanded surface to become uneven. A 'primer's' (which is really an 'undercoater') only purpose is to cause that swelling to happen, and seal off the wood, while giving you a heavy coat of clay to make for easy sanding to get the surface back to level.

Again, there is no 'adhesion' advantage. 

My only point in all this is that there is a fare amount of misconception that 'primers' stick better. And as I said, unless it is a specialty 'bonding primer' like XIM, they don't.

Now they do help pull paint off a brush better than a lot of bare surfaces do, but that paint's adhesion is only as good as what it's painted over, and it will only adhere to the sub-straight as well as the primer. And for my money, any 'top shelf' flat will 'stick' as well as any retail primer of the same vehicle.

As far as the brick or block building, there must be more to the story than that. On new, properly cured block, two coats of 'top shelf' exterior acrylic is acceptable. If it wasn't new, then it wasn't prepped properly. I didn't read the post, but if you link it, I will, but no 'primer' would have made a difference, *all* other factors remaining the same.


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