# Scaffolding vs ladders



## 2peterhunter (Dec 8, 2014)

Just curious I have almost always used ladders without exception, is scaffolding a viable option?


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

It can be. I personally prefer to work off of ladders or benches when possible, but there are certainly times when a scaffold is more appropriate. What specific instances are you considering using scaffolding for?


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## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

If you have a crew, scaffolding works great since you have plenty of help to move it, tear it down, or put it up.

As a one man show (currently) ladders are so much easier to move that I rarely use scaffolding.


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## B-n-L Enterprises (Sep 10, 2014)

For me it depends on the job. 

If I am doing a garage, a short house, of the bottom 10' or so, I use a plank scaffolding. I get to cover more area versus working room of a ladder. I can just side step and paint and only stop to move it lower until I get to a comfortable standing height to work. 
Typically about half the side/back of the garage, move it to another half/side and do the standing/kneeling area. 

I will use an extension ladder for high areas or peaks over 10 ish feet.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

For high-prep jobs, we typically set up sectional scaffolding. For one- or two-trip work (like a quick re-stain job) or work below ~14 feet, we'll often use ladders and planks/picks.


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## dan-o (Sep 28, 2008)

We use pump jacks quite a bit, especially when stripping with paint shavers or sanders.
OSHA's warned us about using both of those off ladders and the work's quicker/more comfortable for the guys off planks too.
I'm transitioning our set up away from 24' poles to 12' and 18'. Easier to transport and set up.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

2peterhunter said:


> Just curious I have almost always used ladders without exception, is scaffolding a viable option?


In terms of logistics, I try to avoid using scaffolding when ever possible for the following reasons;

1. It adds extra cost to a job. (I'm referring to rented scaffolding, which is typically what I use when the need arises. I do have a baker stage, but it's cumbersome and can be limited in it's access ability.)

2. It can cause a lot of attention to a job that can result in complaints for it's unsightliness, and obstruction.

With that said, there is no better work platform than a scaffold.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Just to reiterate and agree with some of the points made here.

Higher work with a crew involving large areas of extensive prep, planks/scaffolding are much more time effective.

Small areas that are one or two ladder moves accessible, use the ladder.

With modern spray equip, planks/staging isn't as effective as the old days when we brush applied primers and two finish on long high faces. 

Extensive work on windows is much less physically demanding when there is a platform to sit on. 

The question of Scaffolding or Ladders has no one answer for ALL situations.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Arch, thank you for a well-reasoned and thoughtful reply. 

Also, I think someone has hacked into your PT account.

;-)


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Even though we are not as of yet taking on any paint stripping jobs for next season (that last job is still bugging me bad). I still want pumps and scaffolding.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Gough said:


> Arch, thank you for a well-reasoned and thoughtful reply.
> 
> Also, I think someone has hacked into your PT account.
> 
> ;-)


I'm starting to drink earlier this season of making Merry :thumbsup:


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

It all depends on how much time you are spending in one area. On most paint jobs it isn't worth it, a pump jack and pick set up is much more efficient.


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## McGregor (Nov 5, 2013)

Mini-scaffolding instead of ladders for sure.


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## McGregor (Nov 5, 2013)

can be used inside a home easily


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

straight_lines said:


> It all depends on how much time you are spending in one area. On most paint jobs it isn't worth it, a pump jack and pick set up is much more efficient.


We often end up using individual towers with picks between them, which is hardly Kosher...but it is fast.

If I were starting over, I'd be tempted to go with Aluma-Poles and picks, but I did get a great price on this stack of sectional scaffolding, so we went with that. We're not in the arc of our painting business where we're making major capital outlay.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I have a set I can get access to and rent cheap in the past, though now with things picking up it will probably be hard to find them not in use. When the economy was down we had pretty much unlimited access. I got a quote for a set up but man that's a lot of money to invest. If we ever grow to need them I won't hesitate but that would be tough to pay for when we do as many interiors as we do.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

straight_lines said:


> I have a set I can get access to and rent cheap in the past, though now with things picking up it will probably be hard to find them not in use. When the economy was down we had pretty much unlimited access. I got a quote for a set up but man that's a lot of money to invest. If we ever grow to need them I won't hesitate but that would be tough to pay for when we do as many interiors as we do.


I'm thinking starting with a section or 2 at a time. No way are we dropping that kind of money at once on a big set up.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

If all I did was exterior restoration I would jump on it without hesitation. My festool/mirka collection value is getting close to the estimate cost we were given.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

straight_lines said:


> I have a set I can get access to and rent cheap in the past, though now with things picking up it will probably be hard to find them not in use. When the economy was down we had pretty much unlimited access. I got a quote for a set up but man that's a lot of money to invest. If we ever grow to need them I won't hesitate but that would be tough to pay for when we do as many interiors as we do.


The last quote I got was for having someone else setup a tower in the center part of a round sanctuary in a church: $7K. and that was in 1998. It took them two days (three guys). I've forgotten the details, but I think our total time on it (painter and helper) was less than 4 hours.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Gough said:


> The last quote I got was for having someone else setup a tower in the center part of a round sanctuary in a church: $7K. and that was in 1998. It took them two days (three guys). I've forgotten the details, but I think our total time on it (painter and helper) was less than 4 hours.


Would this be considered a necessary evil?


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

CApainter said:


> Would this be considered a necessary evil?


At 60 feet high, with no way to use a lift, it certainly was.


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## Dunbar Painting (Mar 19, 2010)

I think if you are doing a 3-4 level heritage house that requires a lot of prep & multiple colours, you have a large crew working on it, and are charging 30-40k... then I would say renting scaffolding for $3500 is 100% worth it considering the amount of ladder movements being saved, and struggling with 40ft ladders etc...

If you are painting 20 windows on a 2 story house, then a few ladders is sufficient. 

I do not think it is worthwhile to own scaffolding, however, there are definitely circumstances where renting it makes sense. 

Own ladders, rent scaffolding.

BOOM. Done


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Dunbar Painting said:


> I think if you are doing a 3-4 level heritage house that requires a lot of prep & multiple colours, you have a large crew working on it, and are charging 30-40k... then I would say renting scaffolding for $3500 is 100% worth it considering the amount of ladder movements being saved, and struggling with 40ft ladders etc...
> 
> If you are painting 20 windows on a 2 story house, then a few ladders is sufficient.
> 
> ...


We got 20 5-0 masons' frames, coupling pins, 7-4 braces, and side brackets, used, for $1K. That has paid fork self many times over.

EDIT: ya gotta love the combination of old, stiff fingers; the touch screen keyboard; and autocorrect, that was supposed to be " for it self". PS. Thanks, Arch, for immortalizing that. I'll try to remember to return the favor.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Gough said:


> We got 20 5-0 masons' frames, coupling pins, 7-4 braces, and side brackets, used, for $1K. That has paid fork self many times over.


I got no witty comment, just had to quote it before you edited it :thumbsup: :whistling2:


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## luny2nz (Nov 14, 2008)

McGregor said:


> Mini-scaffolding instead of ladders for sure.


I have a couple sets of the Perry step up scaffolding.(now Nu-Wave)
They are not the cheap home depot type.They are built well with bigger castors.
Great for where you just need to get a few feet off the ground on a smooth surface. They move around easily and fit through doorways. 
You can use them on exterior work as well. 
I can get up on a set and move around without ever getting down. My "scaffold dance". 
I've lined them up and used them as drying racks for trim as well.
Just another tool to grab, if it will save me some work. 

There are three sizes-you can find them on several websites if you want to shop around for pricing. Here is a link:
http://www.nationalladder.com/Nu-Wave-Step-Up-Mini-Scaffolds-p/nu-wavesteelstepupminiscaffold.htm


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

luny2nz said:


> I have a couple sets of the Perry step up scaffolding.(now Nu-Wave)
> They are not the cheap home depot type.They are built well with bigger castors.
> Great for where you just need to get a few feet off the ground on a smooth surface. They move around easily and fit through doorways.
> You can use them on exterior work as well.
> ...



I've seen these be helpful, but the "baker" type staging is REALLY useful, especially for interior work. 











I never bought a set (cheap ass Yankee), but have used them many times when helping others with ceilings (or having others help me with ceilings), We set up two and run two planks (side by side) between them. The two Bradbury and Bradbury 9'6" ceilings I just completed would have been nearly impossible without them . And I've seen others use them in stairwells.

But this is from a paperhanger's needs, when I was painting, I do not recall a job where a set could have helped.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

daArch said:


> I've seen these be helpful, but the "baker" type staging is REALLY useful, especially for interior work.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


In NC, we often turned our baker scaffolds into rolling tool storage with the addition of some extra 2xs. 

They are handy for tall, narrow hallways. If necessary, they can be stacked. The models we have do so with the top set turned upside down.

They can also be used as stairway scaffolds by setting the frame at one end higher. Don't forget to lock the wheels:whistling2:

Great drying racks for loose trim as well.


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

I actually have a large dining room to do with 12' ceilings for which I'll be using a baker. I have always used masonite for hardwood floor protection but am considering builders board. Think that will work?


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## Painter4Life (Oct 11, 2014)

As far as scaffolding is concerned. Scaffolding and ladders are like any other tool. You use what is most practical for the application. 

- If you only need a hammer, you don’t use a sledgehammer.
- If you paint a bathroom, you don’t use an 18” roller (although some may). lol
- If you are painting a window, you don’t use a 4” brush.

Here are some situations where ladders would not work for us.


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## 2peterhunter (Dec 8, 2014)

How do you guys deal with osha standards??


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

PRC said:


> I actually have a large dining room to do with 12' ceilings for which I'll be using a baker. I have always used masonite for hardwood floor protection but am considering builders board. Think that will work?


By "builders board" do you mean the compressed fiber stuff, the stuff we used to call celotex? Another variation is called "sound board". We've used it, but it seems to get damaged a lot more easily than hardboard/Masonite. Masonite might be a few more dollars, but there's a better chance you'll be able to re-use it.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

2peterhunter said:


> How do you guys deal with osha standards??


I usually follow them.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

2peterhunter said:


> How do you guys deal with osha standards??


Always a huge problem with scaffolding. Access ladders, toeboards, guardrails, etc. are pretty rare to see, especially in residential. We make a great effort to set up safe scaffolding, but I can't remember the last time we used toeboards, for instance. I think it often comes down to, " you pays your money, you take your chances"... and hope that the OSHA inspector gives you credit for making an effort.

I remember an article about scaffolds in Fine Homebuilding some years ago. They wanted some photos to use in the story, so they drove around to take some pictures at job sites. They had to use an artist's drawings, since they couldn't find a legal installation.


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## luny2nz (Nov 14, 2008)

CApainter said:


> I usually follow them.



 lol


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## luny2nz (Nov 14, 2008)

daArch said:


> I've seen these be helpful, but the "baker" type staging is REALLY useful, especially for interior work.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 They are basically the same thing. With the fold-able type you can make sharper corners from a hallway in to a bedroom. And they are easier to transport. 
I had thought I would never use them. I partnered up with another painter who had a set and started using it to run the crown. Now I have two sets. Sometimes things get easier when you try something new.


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

Gough said:


> By "builders board" do you mean the compressed fiber stuff, the stuff we used to call celotex? Another variation is called "sound board". We've used it, but it seems to get damaged a lot more easily than hardboard/Masonite. Masonite might be a few more dollars, but there's a better chance you'll be able to re-use it.


http://www.surfaceshields.com/builder-board


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

PRC said:


> http://www.surfaceshields.com/builder-board


OK, like RAM board, thanks. 

Back in the dark ages '60s, we called the fiberboard sheathing, like Celotex, builder's board. We still use it for things like countertop or deck protection, where the main risk is from a dropped tool.


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

Gough said:


> OK, like RAM board, thanks.
> 
> Back in the dark ages '60s, we called the fiberboard sheathing, like Celotex, builder's board. We still use it for things like countertop or deck protection, where the main risk is from a dropped tool.


How well does Ramboard/builder-board hold up to scaffold wheels and the possibility of a 12' sander drop?

And is it reusable after taping it together?


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

PRC said:


> How well does Ramboard/builder-board hold up to scaffold wheels and the possibility of a 12' sander drop?
> 
> And is it reusable after taping it together?


We've seen builders re-use it, and I think scaffold wheels would be OK on hardwood, but I'd be worried about impact resistant from a dropped sander.


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

Gough said:


> We've seen builders re-use it, and I think scaffold wheels would be OK on hardwood, but I'd be worried about impact resistant from a dropped sander.


That's what I thought too. Thanks! I think I'll try it for the whole floor with a couple pieces of masonite under the prep areas.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

if you want REAL protection from tool drops, use plywood, masonite, beaverboard, or homasote

Celotex is good protection, but I wonder how the wheels will run over it.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

daArch said:


> if you want REAL protection from tool drops, use plywood, masonite, beaverboard, or homasote
> 
> Celotex is good protection, but I wonder how the wheels will run over it.


This may be a regional thing, but I thought beaverboard and celotex were pretty similar. Come to think of it, the interior wall panels and mouldings that we've seen made out of beaverboard did have a more finished outer surface. In either case, I think the scaffold wheels would mash either of them.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Gough said:


> This may be a regional thing, but I thought beaverboard and celotex were pretty similar. Come to think of it, the interior wall panels and mouldings that we've seen made out of beaverboard did have a more finished outer surface. In either case, I think the scaffold wheels would mash either of them.


According to Wikipedia, it sounds like REAL Beaverboard IS like celotex, what I seen referred to as Beaverboard is very similar to masonite.

the second floor rooms in my first house were sheathed in celotex. Not a high class looking material, plus it absorbed light and odors. I tried painting it, but the texture was not to my liking. Some of it I skimmed with mud, but over time took it down and put up sheetrock.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

daArch said:


> According to Wikipedia, it sounds like REAL Beaverboard IS like celotex, what I seen referred to as Beaverboard is very similar to masonite.
> 
> the second floor rooms in my first house were sheathed in celotex. Not a high class looking material, plus it absorbed light and odors. I tried painting it, but the texture was not to my liking. Some of it I skimmed with mud, but over time took it down and put up sheetrock.


It was pretty common for second-floor rooms, cabins in "motor courts" and the like. Stanley even made a (much-maligned) group of fiberboard planes to cut the beads, round over edges of mouldings, etc.


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## McGregor (Nov 5, 2013)




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