# Hey can I borrow your brush



## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

Guys ask all the time why i dont supply brushes. First of its a paint company not paint store. Second off here is the last one you borrowed.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

Odd to me. Not my situation, where I'd have to supply my own brush. Therefore I would never.

But say I did. It over the course of time would cost my employer more than the brushes I bought. I'm not cleaning em on my time? And if it's coming out of my pocket that brush is gonna last a while so however long it takes. You want another window every day for say $40. Or do u want a pristine brush every day? Which will what? Save you $20 a month. Maybe.....Not a business man here, but I'll take the window at $40'a day over the course of that month.I'd think I'd make out a bit better, than obsessing over the tool's well being that got used to paint em.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Brushes are a consumable that should be built into the cost of the job or overhead somewhere. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

Ok probably should of noted that was brand new and that was its first use. So a $20 brush should be disposable? I should supply a new brush everyday so they dont take 10 mins to clean it.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

*Hey can i borrow your brush*

A brush that looks like that after one day says one thing to me. Poor pot discipline. Drives me crazy to see a painter walk off and leave their work pot uncovered, in the sun no less. Looks like that rig sat in the sun during a lunch break. No reason for that kind of waste.

I do agree with Dean and Oden, but that's ridiculous.


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

If you can't take of your brushes, you can't work for me.

We don't throw them in water overnight. I will happily pay a guy to clean his brush. 

I bet the guy who did that looks similar to that brush.


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

Seeing that pic angered me! I have to go eat something.


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

So you guys supply or expect to be supplied a new brush everyday.How would that be smart business? 3 guys get new brushes everyday thats what i am getting at.


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

BPC said:


> Guys ask all the time why i dont supply brushes. First of its a paint company not paint store. Second off here is the last one you borrowed.


Wow. Worst I've seen 😂


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

BPC said:


> So you guys supply or expect to be supplied a new brush everyday.How would that be smart business? 3 guys get new brushes everyday thats what i am getting at.


I don't think that is what's Dean was saying. Rather, one must account for consumables on EVERY job. Regardless of how long the consumable lasts.


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

I never considered brushes a short term consumable. Pot liners,grids,rollers,paper,tape that i understand. I think a brush should last you longer then one job. Thats just crazy talk.


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

BPC said:


> I never considered brushes a short term consumable. Pot liners,grids,rollers,paper,tape that i understand. I think a brush should last you longer then one job. Thats just crazy talk.


I wasn't very clear. A brush may last 20 jobs. So...Cost of brush divided by 20 Is how to build the cost of the brush into EVERY job.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

Start up
Every job gets a start up.
Uhhm. A 2" and 3" brush, a roller handle or two, two 1/2" sleeves, a smoothie sleeve, cut pot or two, a runner or two, a couple empty fives and a couple bucket grids. That's about it. Anyways. If I get sent to a job to start that will be there. A one day one room job or a N.C. High rise. It is part of the system. It is in the bid. Start up. It gets added into the estimate I'm sure, you know. it is in the system.

Not so much anymore. But breaking in I did a lot of running around. Small jobs. It is kinda like foreman tryouts for us. When we are bizzy. And then between big jobs I may still get sent on a string of small ones. Lol. I got bags and bags and fivers full of brushes. Piles of new in the bag runners. Bags and bags and fivers of sleeves. So on. 

Eeeh they never send anybody back to pick the stuff up. And also they aren't going to risk someone being sent to the job and not have tools. So yeh, it is consumables. Every job it gets billed to. If it has a job number it has start up tools. And they are written off. And they are in the bid as write offs. It's a system.


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

I can understand that i am a smaller company.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

It looks like a toddler got ahold of that brush. BTW, I used to wear a floppy hat like that. And they are very practical for exterior work where a hard hat isn't required. However, I had one that looked like the one the guy wore in the movie Deliverence, and my crew mates were telling me to squeal like a pig. I was sort of embarrassed, and no longer wear one.


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

I supply everything except brushes. I like my hat.


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

I understand why you wouldn't want to lend or buy brushes if that's how they care for them. Cleaning brushes doesn't have to be a long process though if you teach them good management. Care for ones tools, even consumable ones, translates to care for their own work. The time invested would benefit you. Just need a good system to make clean up quick and easy.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Without knowing what material was used or what was being painted and what the conditions were, it's kinda hard to make a call on this one. If it's a "shut-down industrial" that's one thing. If it's a residential repaint, that's pretty freaking nasty.


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

I supply brushes ... i also supply airless, pressure washer, truck, drops, frames, roller poles, ladders, ect

if you treat my equipment like that you'll be looking for a job .... bottom line

old school rules 

.


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## Painter-Aaron (Jan 17, 2013)

I worked for this company who randomly decided not to supply brushes. Really stupid Imo. 
On my sites I was the only one to bring them. What was I supposed to do send everyone home? 
So everyone used my brushes at my cost. 

Then the owner started being a jerk about things to me so I took all my brushes and I kept them to myself. And when he comes by to set up a job he asks.. why are there no brushes here? ! 

So I looked at him and was like why would their be brushes in your kit when you don't supply them? 
Boy he was pissed but couldn't say a single word.. he started supplying them after that


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Repaint Florida said:


> I supply brushes ... i also supply airless, pressure washer, truck, drops, frames, roller poles, ladders, ect
> 
> if you treat my equipment like that you'll be looking for a job .... bottom line
> 
> ...


Amen to that. Clean up and care of equipment is part of the job. 

If you're one of those prima donnas of the painting trade who thinks cleaning equipment, loading ladders, etc. is below your station, then I don't need ya. :no:


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I agree everyone needs to take care of equipment and brushes need to last more than one job, I just believe it is the companies responsibility to cover the cost of consumable products like that at least. we provide all tools, but I can see requiring a basic set of non consumable tools be supplied by the employee.


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## Jazz_Painter (Feb 22, 2015)

BPC said:


> I never considered brushes a short term consumable. Pot liners,grids,rollers,paper,tape that i understand. I think a brush should last you longer then one job. Thats just crazy talk.


Fully agree. I keep some of my brushes for months and they still work well, plus it doesn't take me more than 5 min to clean them.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Like labor, a tool that is employed to complete a specific project, should be included as a direct cost. You've got to charge that brush cost to every job. However, as the brush is used from job to job, it will be devalued and therefore, cannot be reimbursed to the same degree as when it was new.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Being a OMS, I supply my own brushes. I also clean them. Why? Because I pay for them. I've worked for contractors who had his own guys doing some painting. After day one, nobody and I mean nobody borrowed any of my gear. Not one thing. Not for a single second.

Whoever was using that brush had no clue whatsoever what they were doing. If they got that much paint on the parts of the brush where it's not supposed to be, I can't imagine how much they got on other stuff where it wasn't supposed to be.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

I think for the sake of the duckies and birdies only, that all of you painters should stop cleaning any brushes and rollers. Not because I would sell more. Just for the duckies and birdies.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

With an employee that ends a day with a bush looking like that, I think you have greater problems than supplying brushes. 

He'd be more suitable saying, "you want fries with that?"


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Speaking of cleaning brushes . . . 

How often in a day do you wash your brushes, especially for waterbornes ?


We would usually given the waterborne brushes a quick wash every two or three hours depending on the day. Solvent brushes usually at lunch time.


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

daArch said:


> Speaking of cleaning brushes . . .
> 
> How often in a day do you wash your brushes, especially for waterbornes ?
> 
> ...


Exterior, 2 maybe 3 brushes/guy each day. Once they are getting gunked, hit them with a wire brush and drop in water for clean up later. Interior depends on what kind of paint.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Interior, if I need to change out a brush I just wrap it up in Saran wrap and throw it in the van to be cleaned when I get home.

Exterior, if possible I have a half bucket of water to wire brush it clean if it get's gummy. If not possible, same as interior.

How do guys on here keep brushes going for years? I keep reading this, but can't see how wire brushing wouldn't eventually break down the bristles until they're eventually unusable.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Interior, if I need to change out a brush I just wrap it up in Saran wrap and throw it in the van to be cleaned when I get home.
> 
> Exterior, if possible I have a half bucket of water to wire brush it clean if it get's gummy. If not possible, same as interior.
> 
> How do guys on here keep brushes going for years? I keep reading this, but can't see how wire brushing wouldn't eventually break down the bristles until they're eventually unusable.


I have brushes DECADES old and they are like new. How? I haven't used them :whistling2:

No, but seriously, keeping them clean. I think my brush comb, wire brush, and spinner are essential for THOROUGHLY cleaning brushes. AND by keeping a brush clean during the day. Natural bristles wear down, so they wear out a lot quicker. But if you can keep paint out of the heal of a synthetic brush, it can last a long long time. And that's why we would clean them throughout the day. If you can keep the paint ONLY on the lower 1/3 of the brush, it won't dry in the heal and splay the bristles out in all directions. PLUS wrapping them when clean.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Huh, interesting. In general I can keep a brush going for a few months with regular use, then it gravitates to being a ceiling brush. Once it's no good for that anymore, it might turn into an exterior brush for basically mopping stain on siding.

After that, it either becomes a dust brush or landfill food.

I've given up on using spinners. For some reason I just keep killing them. It's not like I'm man handling them, but I just keep crushing them somehow. I just use the old fashioned 'boy scout starting a fire method'. Seems to work for me.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Maybe today I'll take some pix of my OLD dust brushes, and I'll bet they are cleaner than some peoples' daily brushes.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

daArch said:


> Maybe today I'll take some pix of my OLD dust brushes, and I'll bet they are cleaner than some peoples' daily brushes.


My favourite dust brush, 'old dusty' could be readying for retirement. Kind of sad and I'm not kidding. I think he started out as the first exterior brush I'd ever bought. I have put him back in the bucket a few times though and he did a great job!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

How am I supposed to make any money if you painters keep your brushes for years?


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Proalliance coatings said:


> How am I supposed to make any money if you painters keep your brushes for years?


Keep selling Purdy's :whistling2:


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

daArch said:


> I have brushes DECADES old and they are like new. How? I haven't used them :whistling2:
> 
> No, but seriously, keeping them clean. I think my brush comb, wire brush, and spinner are essential for THOROUGHLY cleaning brushes. AND by keeping a brush clean during the day. Natural bristles wear down, so they wear out a lot quicker. But if you can keep paint out of the heal of a synthetic brush, it can last a long long time. And that's why we would clean them throughout the day. *If you can keep the paint ONLY on the lower 1/3 of the brush, it won't dry in the heal and splay the bristles out in all directions.* PLUS wrapping them when clean.


If I am reading this correctly you are suggesting best practice is to load your brush 1/3 of the way up the bristles?

I think that would be the case if 1.) you are doing short, delicate work or 2.) your primary work concern is prolonging the life of your brush.

In my experience, the high volume/production painting crowd seem to load up 2/3 or 3/4 easy, day in day out. And that daily practice carries over to when they do short, delicate work.

If you alone were cutting in a large bedroom with many windows and doors, would you only load your brush 1/3 throughout?


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

My brush is 1/2 -3/4 full always below the ferrule..


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

I keep my brush dunked in paint. All the way up to the metal. If I walk away for break or whatever I fill up the cut pot and leave the brush paint to the metal. 
Keep the brush wet and don't let it dry and u have no problems. It Kleens right out.

When I do clean the brush, i don't kick it out,I leave it wet. The wet to dry, wet to dry over and over makes em brittle. I have found anyhow.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Oden said:


> I keep my brush dunked in paint. All the way up to the metal. If I walk away for break or whatever I fill up the cut pot and leave the brush paint to the metal.
> Keep the brush wet and don't let it dry and u have no problems. It Kleens right out.
> 
> When I do clean the brush, i don't kick it out,I leave it wet. The wet to dry, wet to dry over and over makes em brittle. I have found anyhow.


Obviously you do, Oden.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

daArch said:


> Maybe today I'll take some pix of my OLD dust brushes, and I'll bet they are cleaner than some peoples' daily brushes.


OK, here are some old dusters. NOT to say others do not understand the mindset of treating one's tools with finesse and care, but I have a feeling these can not be equaled by ALL. Those who are a bit fastidious understand, those who aren't, don't.









The far left, as you can see, was a stain brush, now it's a floor sweeper , next one to the right is a like-new Chinese bristle oval, a Johnson Paint private label (second best brushes ever made), the second from the right is my oldest "brush". It was bought from "under the counter" in the very early 70's during the trade embargo against China when it was illegal to import Chinese bristle brushes. Even then it cost $20.00.


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

daArch said:


> OK, here are some old dusters. NOT to say others do not understand the mindset of treating one's tools with finesse and care, but I have a feeling these can not be equaled by ALL. Those who are a bit fastidious understand, those who aren't, don't.
> 
> View attachment 50593
> 
> ...


I'd love to have that one second from the left. It looks ready to use and looks like a sweet tool.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

SemiproJohn said:


> I'd love to have that one second from the left. It looks ready to use and looks like a sweet tool.



It *IS* a sweet tool. As I said, the second best brushes made. Johnson Paint had their brushes made for them and were a little longer and softer and flexible and firm and excellent bristle quality, The BEST brushes made were by Dexter Brothers, available in Milton Lower Falls in the old Baker's Chocolate Factory. As good as Johnsons were, the Dexters were just a smidge better.

I'm not sure I've even rinsed that one in thinner yet.


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## jason123 (Jul 2, 2009)

Im definitely a new schooler.. F^%K your cut pots. Only pelicans or paint pals for me. I do supply brush's Im a small business with no real long term employees ( well maybe one now its been working out pretty good for a while now). It does annoy me when people paint their brush instead of the wall. I have worked with good painters that dont have much etiquette with their brush and end up painting their brushs too. Their jobs end up great and they are fast, so who am I to judge ass long as it is not my stuff.

My philosophy is be in control of the paint not have the paint in control of me. I reiterate F#$K the cut pots might as well ride to your job on a horse while your at it. Pelicans and paint pals give you a lot more control of your brush not having to be assaulted by paint.

A well used brush can be cleaned in less than 2 minutes tops. I know, I time it to show my guys not to be afraid of cleaning. I do most of the cleaning for one dont want the newbs making a huge mess and also dont want them wasting time doing a half ass job. Best not to spin a brush I like to let it dry wet. If I have to a very delicate spin either boy scout style or delicate spinner. I never let a wire brush near my paint brush might as well use a grinder. I like to use the two different style combs long teeth(black handle) and the short teeth(yellow handle), plus the super pointy teeth one ( wood handle + can be used as a weapon if you come up short on your budget to extort more money out of the customer). The brush is always ponted down and the water is never injected into the ferrule, never mash my brush into the sink. I comb it like a school girl playing with her first barbie doll.

I find 1/2 of bristle in paint is more than enough, I mean if your wilt chamberlain or something but how long is your reach. I dip more than shovel the paint.


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## Scannell Painting (Sep 25, 2010)

With a brush like that I would say his work looks the same, he don't care. We supply all equipment but some guys like a personal brush,ok by me.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

jason123 said:


> Im definitely a new schooler.. F^%K your cut pots. Only pelicans or paint pals for me. I do supply brush's Im a small business with no real long term employees ( well maybe one now its been working out pretty good for a while now). It does annoy me when people paint their brush instead of the wall. I have worked with good painters that dont have much etiquette with their brush and end up painting their brushs too. Their jobs end up great and they are fast, so who am I to judge ass long as it is not my stuff.
> 
> My philosophy is be in control of the paint not have the paint in control of me. I reiterate F#$K the cut pots might as well ride to your job on a horse while your at it. Pelicans and paint pals give you a lot more control of your brush not having to be assaulted by paint.
> 
> ...


Personally, I like my cut pots and hate the cheapo pelican things

so there


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

daArch said:


> OK, here are some old dusters. NOT to say others do not understand the mindset of treating one's tools with finesse and care, but I have a feeling these can not be equaled by ALL. Those who are a bit fastidious understand, those who aren't, don't.
> 
> View attachment 50593
> 
> ...


I think that is called obsession not fastidious


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## Krittterkare (Jul 12, 2013)

I have brushes that are over 5 years old and function better then new, if a painter can not keep the paint below 3/4 of the bristles he is not a painter and anyone who dunks brushes in a bucket of water at the end of the day will never know how well a brush can perform.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

With a overly soft brush. Like these Purdy's I'm getting stuck now using. A old trick, when I wash out the brush. Make it clean but not too. Have the water coming out be a bit cloudy, and that yeh kick it out. It stiffens them bristles up a bit. Makes em sharper.

Not for nothing but. Different people do different kinds of work. 1/4 or a 1/3 of a cut pot? 2" in a cut pot? For walls? Lol
That's like 10 minutes worth of paint. WTF, that is a 'touch up' kit. Really?

I see guys load a cut pot like that on a job, I know right away. They aren't gonna be cutting in too long here. The same guy, he'll after you load up ur cut pots stamp the lid down on the five....dude stop doing that. I'll get carpel tunnel opening that five lid every time I need to load up. Certain 'tells' you know right away. What kind of production a guy is accustomed to putting out.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

chrisn said:


> I think that is called obsession not fastidious


I'm obsessive about not have TOO many obsessions, just the right ones  :whistling2: :thumbsup:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

jason123 said:


> Im definitely a new schooler.. F^%K your cut pots. Only pelicans or paint pals for me. I do supply brush's Im a small business with no real long term employees ( well maybe one now its been working out pretty good for a while now). It does annoy me when people paint their brush instead of the wall. I have worked with good painters that dont have much etiquette with their brush and end up painting their brushs too. Their jobs end up great and they are fast, so who am I to judge ass long as it is not my stuff.
> 
> My philosophy is be in control of the paint not have the paint in control of me. I reiterate F#$K the cut pots might as well ride to your job on a horse while your at it. Pelicans and paint pals give you a lot more control of your brush not having to be assaulted by paint.
> 
> ...


For interiors, we always used a coffee can INSIDE of a paint pot for cutting and trim work. I always believed the smaller the surface of paint exposed to air, the slower the paint thickened. It also greatly reduced the chance of any errant rim drips from running down the side onto exposed floor. What we SHOULD have thought of was attaching a magnet to the inside of the paint pot to hold the brush, but back then I don't think small strong rare-earth magnets were easily available. 

This was before pelicans and other small plastic cut pots.


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## jason123 (Jul 2, 2009)

daArch said:


> For interiors, we always used a coffee can INSIDE of a paint pot for cutting and trim work. I always believed the smaller the surface of paint exposed to air, the slower the paint thickened. It also greatly reduced the chance of any errant rim drips from running down the side onto exposed floor. What we SHOULD have thought of was attaching a magnet to the inside of the paint pot to hold the brush, but back then I don't think small strong rare-earth magnets were easily available.
> 
> This was before pelicans and other small plastic cut pots.



Yah however you cut it :no:, its all about the magnet really!


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

*Hey can i borrow your brush*

I can't deal with the Pelicans or the Handi Pails much because there's no place to put a pot hook. Doing low interior work it's not as much of big deal I guess, but I can't use a work pot that I can't hook to a ladder. Also the hand strap is not natural for me being used to holding a bail. 

I have been looking at the Wooster Speed buckets. Would like to try one but I haven't seen any in stores and I'm lazy about ordering stuff. They look like the Pelicans but they have a bail. I am getting kinda tired of duces and screens, but I gotta have a bail.

Also seems odd to me the aversion to soaking brushes. I've always done it. Soak them on the way back to the shop at least, sometimes they stay in water for a week or more if I'm being lazy. Doesn't affect them in the least of they're sitting right except making cleaning easier. 

Trying to keep paint off a brush handle seem futile to me, I just couldn't take the time to pay attention to that. I'm with Oden on the production. A brush is for painting not looking pretty 

Still, my brushes last a good long while. I usually loose or misplace them before they wear out.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

I just love the pics you see on the packaging for the handipails showing some guy with it attached to his belt.

"Oh, I've dropped something. I'll just pick that up. Oh, now look what I've done."


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## McGregor (Nov 5, 2013)

I spray off my brushes and cut pots with water, rinse them off basically, then just keep the brush in the cut pot full of water til the next morning. Beats trying to get every molecule of paint out of the brush every day. But, I also work alone for myself so I am not getting paid to clean my brush every day. I figure that cleaning a brush absolutely completely for 30 minutes every day is for people who work by the hour and not the job. But, that dude who did that would have to go unless that was his first time ever using a brush. A 14 year old?


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

McGregor said:


> I spray off my brushes and cut pots with water, rinse them off basically, then just keep the brush in the cut pot full of water til the next morning. Beats trying to get every molecule of paint out of the brush every day. But, I also work alone for myself so I am not getting paid to clean my brush every day. I figure that cleaning a brush absolutely completely for 30 minutes every day is for people who work by the hour and not the job. But, that dude who did that would have to go unless that was his first time ever using a brush. A 14 year old?


My most hated day is the last day of a NC job. Touch up day.

You go back to fix all the dings and imperfections made by the carpenters, grubby fingered electricians. Every different coloured wall, ceiling, stick of trim. Spend a couple of hours hunting everything down. Fix it.

Come home with a dozen brushes that need to be cleaned. Spend an hour kneeling in front of your laundry tub watching paint swirl down the drain. Slowly.


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

For a tall guy, one of the worst sensations after ten hard labor hours, is the shooting pain in the lower back while hunched over a slop sink cleaning brushes.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

I paint paint said:


> For a tall guy, one of the worst sensations after ten hard labor hours, is the shooting pain in the lower back while hunched over a slop sink cleaning brushes.


I will admit.... There has been times when I've looked at a brush that's perfectly good or at least I know it's still got lots of life left in it.... That I know is going to take a very long time to clean well because it just put in a hard day...

I just jam it against the side of the sink and pitch it in the garbage, walk out to the back deck with my dogs and have a beer instead.

We all have breaking points.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

I am surprised that the "plug" (where bristle, ferule, and handle intersect) of those brushes that are left soaking in water, don't swell and cause everything to "explode" so the brush looks like Eddie Murphy's portrayal of Buckwheat










We tried a solvent holding brush keeper back when we were noobs. What we found was that a paint laden scum floated to the top and then caused a "bathtub" ring on the brush that would dry and REALLY F the brush up


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

$11ea. Not a staggering cost for a paint company to buy a case a week and hand them out. I have seen guys wasting money using a worn out brush. Just add it in your job costs it will save money in the long run.

http://www.thepaintstore.com/Proform_Blaze_Oval_Straight_Standard_Handle_Brush_p/c2.5so.htm


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> $11ea. Not a staggering cost for a paint company to buy a case a week and hand them out. I have seen guys wasting money using a worn out brush. Just add it in your job costs it will save money in the long run.
> 
> http://www.thepaintstore.com/Proform_Blaze_Oval_Straight_Standard_Handle_Brush_p/c2.5so.htm


The like-new brushes I have in my collection have price stickers like 17.50 for a 3 1/2" XL Pip, and that's 1989 prices. Quality brushes like that ain't disposable. 

But of course that was when Purdy was a good enough brush for most production work.


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

Proalliance coatings said:


> I think for the sake of the duckies and birdies only, that all of you painters should stop cleaning any brushes and rollers. Not because I would sell more. Just for the duckies and birdies.


I think you are wrong. For the duckies and birdies it's better to wash them.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

BPC said:


> Guys ask all the time why i dont supply brushes. First of its a paint company not paint store. Second off here is the last one you borrowed.


From the looks of the brush, looks like you have some hacks working for you.


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

Proalliance coatings said:


> I think for the sake of the duckies and birdies only, that all of you painters should stop cleaning any brushes and rollers. Not because I would sell more. Just for the duckies and birdies.





George Z said:


> I think you are wrong. For the duckies and birdies it's better to wash them.


By prolonging the life of an individual brush, you are repeatedly polluting the water stream with each wash.

But if you treat brushes as disposable, than you are wasting resources. All those components that make up a brush--poly, nylon, wood, metal, plastic, epoxy, etc. All get used up one time and thrown out. Plus the wasted energy it takes to assemble each brush, pack it, ship it, etc.

This, George, is why you say wash it?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Since we have begun extreme rationing of water here in California, I basically have gone back to the old school method of brush and roller cleaning, as it was taught to me. The following is based on one or two brushes plus a roller sleeve using less than two gallons of paint in less than ten minutes.

1. I begin with a drop cloth, two fives, a deuce, stiff nylon wire brush, five in one, and a spinner

2. I fill the deuce with water and pour into the wash five as needed. Approximately one quart per wash


3. The sequence of the first wash always begins with the smallest brush to the largest, and finally the roller sleeve, (which has been squeezed of paint and back into the paint container with a five in one.)

4. Given that there is plenty of space in the five, I use a spinner to dewater the brush and roller sleeve

5. I pour out the first used wash water into the slop five, and repeat the cleaning process as needed

6. I will typically flush the slop water down the toilet knowing it will end up at a waste treatment plant.

Note: the flush adds another 1.6 gallons of water


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

I paint paint said:


> By prolonging the life of an individual brush, you are repeatedly polluting the water stream with each wash.
> 
> But if you treat brushes as disposable, than you are wasting resources. All those components that make up a brush--poly, nylon, wood, metal, plastic, epoxy, etc. All get used up one time and thrown out. Plus the wasted energy it takes to assemble each brush, pack it, ship it, etc.
> 
> This, George, is why you say wash it?


Mostly yes, also good water treatment plants can take care of paint water




> But simply comparing the environmental impact of paint water waste, versus solid waste of a dried up roller is not an accurate comparison. As a painting contractor, we need to replace every thrown out roller with a new one. What is really the ecological footprint created by the process of manufacturing and distributing a new roller? There are raw materials to be created, transported and used, manufacturing waste, water usage, logistics and transportation for distribution etc. The first part of the discussion will be about the waste water and what happens to it when it goes down the sink and treated in a water treatment facility.


So if you take all that into account, it's not even close.

So wash them, but not outside on the lawn. The water needs to be treated.
And find a simple way of using less water, like CApainter described, for example.


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

I think we all agree that the perp in the OP ain't worth his salt. There's like a quarter inch layer on his handle for crying out loud!! Now whether the guy is salvageable or not who knows. Maybe he is 14 yo an just starting out. If he's much over 20 he's probably untrainable or at best not very observative. 

Last year one job was 181 decks. All new trim around windows an doors an columns, and also the joists ( of the deck above the one ur standing on). Anyways, literally miles an miles of brush work. I tell ya, we learnt a few tricks along the way. Was routinely putting on a 5er (myself) a day of SuperPaint, with a brush. 3" Wooster or Purdy wall/swan brushes were the best. 

Anyway, end of day just drop em in the plumb full 5er of water. Leave it overnight in trailer. Next morning hit em bout 6-8 strokes with the wire brush. Spin it out like two strokes in spinner. Get to work. On Fridays we would clean em good an proper an put em in the packaging for the weekend so Monday they were nice an new-like. 

Kept the cleaning under 5 mins per man easy an all the brushes I bought for that job r still in service.



High rises... Lotta times waters scarce. Nobody wanna hike 10 stories to fetch water. So the brushes stay in the water bucket permanently. Months on end. If u need a brush grab it outta the bucket, wire brush a stroke or two an spin it real good. The waters always dirty/thick so spinning is important to not contaminate ur cut pot. After a couple weeks it starts smellin real bad. Anyone who has extra water in their jug (drinking water) at the end of a day, dump it in a 5er before u leave. Now we got a fresh bucket for soaking brushes. Old water gets a lid on it an sent out the stocking unit with the trash... Or down the garbage chute.

I really haven't noticed brushes getting swollen an splayed out like u guys mention. I've seen it from other things... But not from soaking much...


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I'm doing some interior painting for my neighbor across the street. I'm painting an accent wall in a Aura charcoal gray or something, with quite a sheen. Sorry, I didn't pay attention to all of the product details. Anyway, a total of two nine inch rollers and two 2.5" brush cleanings at a rate of 20 minutes with a total usage of two gallons of water, not including the toilet flush.


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

CApainter said:


> I'm doing some interior painting for my neighbor across the street. I'm painting an accent wall in a Aura charcoal gray or something, with quite a sheen. Sorry, I didn't pay attention to all of the product details. Anyway, a total of two nine inch rollers and two 2.5" brush cleanings at a rate of 20 minutes with a total of two gallons of water, not including the toilet flush.


So when u do the math against ur wage, is it more profitable to clean em or chuck em?

Oden has a good point, and I want an extra Hmf every day. The brush don't gotta be perfect... Just tape it so the bristles r a couple inches in thinner. Clean it out or chuck it at the end of the job. But buyin a new brush daily could certainly add up.

Shoulda mentioned in my above post... We do same with oil brushes, but we tape em to the rim so the handle doesn't get all nasty. They never really get "cleaned"... Just rinsed.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

CApainter said:


> Since we have begun extreme rationing of water here in California, I basically have gone back to the old school method of brush and roller cleaning, as it was taught to me. The following is based on one or two brushes plus a roller sleeve using less than two gallons of paint in less than ten minutes.
> 
> 1. I begin with a drop cloth, two fives, a deuce, stiff nylon wire brush, five in one, and a spinner
> 
> ...



John,

To be even less wasteful of California's new liquid gold, Can you use a three bath system like many do with solvent brush cleaning. And similarly, use the wash water day after day until the first bath water is virtually stain?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

bryceraisanen said:


> So when u do the math against ur wage, is it more profitable to clean em or chuck em?
> 
> Oden has a good point, and I want an extra Hmf every day. The brush don't gotta be perfect... Just tape it so the bristles r a couple inches in thinner. Clean it out or chuck it at the end of the job. But buyin a new brush daily could certainly add up.
> 
> Shoulda mentioned in my above post... We do same with oil brushes, but we tape em to the rim so the handle doesn't get all nasty. They never really get "cleaned"... Just rinsed.


I'm basically cleaning for storage until a future project. But I would soak the brushes just like you described if I were to be going back day after day until the project was complete. Especially, considering the draught we're experiencing.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

daArch said:


> John,
> 
> To be even less wasteful of California's new liquid gold, Can you use a three bath system like many do with solvent brush cleaning. And similarly, use the wash water day after day until the first bath water is virtually stain?


Absolutely!

I am storing the two gallons I generated today in contemplation of locating some aluminum such and such:blink: to add to the water in order to quickly separate the solids from the water. I might even look into some polymer I have access to.

Note: My three bath system is similar to what I used to use with thinner, minus the fourth slop bucket and thinner container.


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

The brush that is posted is by one of our new guys who is actually in his 40s and does a decent job but has not learned tool care he is trying to be efficent and clean but neglevts his tools. I soak my brushes in the brush cleaning solution they sell at sherwin over night come morning they clean in under 2 mins. That solution last a good while if you filter it thru cheese cloth and keep it in a fiver.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

Anyway, end of day just drop em in the plumb full 5er of water. Leave it overnight in trailer. Next morning hit em bout 6-8 strokes with the wire brush. Spin it out like two strokes in spinner. Get to work. On Fridays we would clean em good an proper an put em in the packaging for the weekend so Monday they were nice an new-like. 


Yeh a running sink in a new building is almost last. I'll fill the five also bout half way. But I string the brushes so they hang down into the water. Just over the metal ferrel I want the water line. The handle of a five works perfect for to hang them. Rip one off of a five. Cut the plastic grip off. Straighten it and string the brushes through, set it across the top of the five with the brushes hanging into the water. Just up to the Ferrell is my preference. Most of the paint will fall out of the brush by morning then yeh just wire brush it and kick it out a bit and get dipping. It's quick and the brushes hold up just fine.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

Oden said:


> Oden said:
> 
> 
> > Odd to me. Not my situation, where I'd have to supply my own brush.
> ...


And if you paid for the brushes, you would do what?


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

George Z said:


> I think you are wrong. For the duckies and birdies it's better to wash them.


Yeah, yeah I know all that. But you're stepping on my marketing plan dude. lol.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

PaintersUnite said:


> From the looks of the brush, looks like you have some hacks working for you.


At least it looks like they are using the brush! Maybe not a painter from Idaho?


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

I paint paint said:


> By prolonging the life of an individual brush, you are repeatedly polluting the water stream with each wash.
> 
> But if you treat brushes as disposable, than you are wasting resources. All those components that make up a brush--poly, nylon, wood, metal, plastic, epoxy, etc. All get used up one time and thrown out. Plus the wasted energy it takes to assemble each brush, pack it, ship it, etc.
> 
> This, George, is why you say wash it?


Ok, at the risk of losing some profit, I am going to disclose why it is better for the duckies and birdies to wash a brush than to throw it away. The best thing to do with wasted or cleaned out latex paint is to pour it down a drain that goes to a water treatment plant. This is right from the duckie and birdie lovers web sites. Water treatment plants can remove 99.9% of anything that is even remotely damaging to the environment from water that has been contaminated with latex paint. Add to that the saving of all the resources and energy you mentioned and in the long term, cleaning brushes and rollers in a sink is better for the environment.


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## Picky_Painter (May 12, 2015)

I have switched over from Wooster Alphas to Corona's

We wash all out brushes and rollers. Always.

On occassion Ill send my guy home with brushes and rollers to wash, and tack on an hour for their time...

Think about it... atleast 2 brushes per day thats $40
atleast one roller, $8

theres $50. Its cheaper for me to pay him an hour at home to wash them out.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Proalliance coatings said:


> Ok, at the risk of losing some profit, I am going to disclose why it is better for the duckies and birdies to wash a brush than to throw it away. The best thing to do with wasted or cleaned out latex paint is to pour it down a drain that goes to a water treatment plant. This is right from the duckie and birdie lovers web sites. Water treatment plants can remove 99.9% of anything that is even remotely damaging to the environment from water that has been contaminated with latex paint. Add to that the saving of all the resources and energy you mentioned and in the long term, cleaning brushes and rollers in a sink is better for the environment.


Although I think it's better to wash brushes for green reasons, I am not convinced "The best thing to do with wasted or cleaned out latex paint is to pour it down a drain that goes to a water treatment plant."

Sure, the modern waste water treatment plant is capable of turning sewage into drinking water, BUT, what happens to all the sludge they filter out? It has to go somewhere. 

I agree it's probably greener to clean brushes than throw them away because the manufacturing process wastes natural resources and produces pollutants. Jeff Verney of Monadnock Paper, which has received many "green awards", was correct when he said "ANY manufacturing process produces pollutants" 

But I think it is best to keep as little paint as possible out of the waste water.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

daArch said:


> Although I think it's better to wash brushes for green reasons, I am not convinced "The best thing to do with wasted or cleaned out latex paint is to pour it down a drain that goes to a water treatment plant."
> 
> Sure, the modern waste water treatment plant is capable of turning sewage into drinking water, BUT, what happens to all the sludge they filter out? It has to go somewhere.
> 
> ...


You make a good point Bill. But from what I understand, any residual paint from brush cleaning is so diluted in the waste stream that it is rendered negligible. Although the size of the treatment plant and how much water it collects most likely has an impact on whether that particular waste should be introduced. That's why it's important to check with your municipality.

My understanding is waste water treatment plants have way more issues with elements of prescription drugs showing up in their discharge than they do with elements of waterborne paints. And that's not by directly flushing them down the toilet, if you know what I mean.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

daArch said:


> Although I think it's better to wash brushes for green reasons, I am not convinced "The best thing to do with wasted or cleaned out latex paint is to pour it down a drain that goes to a water treatment plant."
> 
> Sure, the modern waste water treatment plant is capable of turning sewage into drinking water, BUT, what happens to all the sludge they filter out? It has to go somewhere.
> 
> ...


Hey I read this on Ecopaint's website so it must be the best thing to do. For gosh sake they have paint for painting around birds and lizards and stuff. And special paint for dog houses. 

And besides, don't they just ship that sludge to New Mexico?


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> You make a good point Bill. But from what I understand, any residual paint from brush cleaning is so diluted in the waste stream that it is rendered negligible. Although the size of the treatment plant and how much water it collects most likely has an impact on whether that particular waste should be introduced. That's why it's important to check with your municipality.
> 
> My understanding is waste water treatment plants have way more issues with elements of prescription drugs showing up in their discharge than they do with elements of waterborne paints. And that's not by directly flushing them down the toilet, if you know what I mean.


In my town they have half price sushi Tuesday to deal with!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

but thanks anyway d'arch for supporting my marketing scheme!


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

CApainter said:


> You make a good point Bill. But from what I understand, any residual paint from brush cleaning is so diluted in the waste stream that it is rendered negligible. Although the size of the treatment plant and how much water it collects most likely has an impact on whether that particular waste should be introduced. That's why it's important to check with your municipality.
> 
> My understanding is waste water treatment plants have way more issues with elements of prescription drugs showing up in their discharge than they do with elements of waterborne paints. And that's not by directly flushing them down the toilet, if you know what I mean.


Absolutely agree that there are so many pollutants that a couple, even a hundred, brush cleanings won't make much of a difference. And I suppose that's what one grandma says about HER 10 outdated pills she's tossing. And as you can imagine, many many grandmas feel the same way. And it all adds up. Same with every other pollutant we flush. 

ME? I like being part of the solution, not part of the problem.

The wood floor in my wood shop is multi colored from little bits of excess paint and sometimes even working out the first rinse of a brush. But I can do that because the only painting I now do is DIY stuff.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

daArch said:


> Absolutely agree that there are so many pollutants that a couple, even a hundred, brush cleanings won't make much of a difference. And I suppose that's what one grandma says about HER 10 outdated pills she's tossing. And as you can imagine, many many grandmas feel the same way. And it all adds up. Same with every other pollutant we flush.
> 
> ME? I like being part of the solution, not part of the problem.
> 
> The wood floor in my wood shop is multi colored from little bits of excess paint and sometimes even working out the first rinse of a brush. But I can do that because the only painting I now do is DIY stuff.


I'm definitly not recommending dumping paint down the toilet! Only the wash water. As much paint as possible should be removed from rollers and brushes before cleaning.

I even go as far as letting the suspended solids in the wash slop bucket settle somewhat before dumping in the toilet. the sludge at the bottom of the bucket can be solidified with absorbant, or by evaporation.


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

PaintersUnite said:


> And if you paid for the brushes, you would do what?


I paid for em. And I paid for the bucket they're soaking in which is sitting inside a enclosed tandem axle trailer that I paid for which also BTW, has about another 20k worth of tools in it, that I paid for and is commonly towed around by my 50k dollar Silverado that has a custom paint splattered tailgate and epoxy all over the cockpit and that, you guessed it, I paid for. Yes I paid for the [email protected] brushes. 

If it's about profit, it's about balance. You don't make money having every guy throw their brush away everyday. You pry also don't make it by having everyone turn their clothes inside out b4 they get in the truck.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

This is how I roll. When no working water\drain combo is available. Which is more often than not. For me.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)




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## FreshLookPainting (May 25, 2015)

When I was a wee lad first starting out.. say 15 to 16 years old, the guy who mentored me and taught me most what I know saw a brush I was using, looked similar to the picture. He stopped me and proceeded to tell me.. "this is called the handle, this what you hold onto with your clean hands. This is called the bristles, it's where the paint goes, neither should be mixed up, bad things can happen." all well and good but he did it in front of a house full of other contractors and tradesman.. I was so embarrassed. Ever since I have be pretty diligent with keeping my brushes clean. I had a Purdy that lasted me for years. 

Speaking of Purdy, as a guy who's been out of the business for A LONG time I see you goes dissing them and recommending others. Why is that? What do you recommend? I have my first real job coming up in years(3 bdrm, 2 bath interior), so I planned on pricing and looking at materials, (just brushes, rollers etc. ) So I wanted to at least get an expense list going for that particular job. 

Another thing.. again, been out of this for a long time. Where do you typically clean up? When I worked for other people, we really normally found a place on site to do it, whether off the hose or a utility sink. When I worked for myself the first time, I almost always took everything home with me and cleaned it myself in my backyard. But now that I am divorced (I still have a 4 bedroom house with a pool.. I just don't get to live there anymore :whistling2:, if you know what I mean) and I live in a townhouse for the time being. I guess I could lug a 5er up here with brushes and rollers and do it in the tub.. which I have done before. 

oh, and being in Oklahoma.. even any of you guys living in places with water deficiency, I have plenty here you can syphon off!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Oden said:


>


Dude! You are a genius! I'm gonna go get some steel rod and sell that 5hit! $10.00 each! Buy two and get a free jungle hat!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

FreshLookPainting said:


> When I was a wee lad first starting out.. say 15 to 16 years old, the guy who mentored me and taught me most what I know saw a brush I was using, looked similar to the picture. He stopped me and proceeded to tell me.. "this is called the handle, this what you hold onto with your clean hands. This is called the bristles, it's where the paint goes, neither should be mixed up, bad things can happen." all well and good but he did it in front of a house full of other contractors and tradesman.. I was so embarrassed. Ever since I have be pretty diligent with keeping my brushes clean. I had a Purdy that lasted me for years.
> 
> Speaking of Purdy, as a guy who's been out of the business for A LONG time I see you goes dissing them and recommending others. Why is that? What do you recommend? I have my first real job coming up in years(3 bdrm, 2 bath interior), so I planned on pricing and looking at materials, (just brushes, rollers etc. ) So I wanted to at least get an expense list going for that particular job.
> 
> ...


Yeah someone should build a pipeline to California or something! I was in Tulsa during the 1984 floods. Wiped out all of their police cars. They had to pull all of their Harley police bikes out of retirement.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

FreshLookPainting said:


> When I was a wee lad first starting out.. say 15 to 16 years old, the guy who mentored me and taught me most what I know saw a brush I was using, looked similar to the picture. He stopped me and proceeded to tell me.. "this is called the handle, this what you hold onto with your clean hands. This is called the bristles, it's where the paint goes, neither should be mixed up, bad things can happen." all well and good but he did it in front of a house full of other contractors and tradesman.. I was so embarrassed. Ever since I have be pretty diligent with keeping my brushes clean. I had a Purdy that lasted me for years.
> 
> Speaking of Purdy, as a guy who's been out of the business for A LONG time I see you goes dissing them and recommending others. Why is that? What do you recommend? I have my first real job coming up in years(3 bdrm, 2 bath interior), so I planned on pricing and looking at materials, (just brushes, rollers etc. ) So I wanted to at least get an expense list going for that particular job.
> 
> ...



If you're not on good terms with your ex, I guess you could always soak your brushes in YOUR pool that you don't get to swim in anymore. As far as brushes, use the search function. If I talk too much about what's wrong with Purdys these days, I'm liable to start an all-out online brawl. As for me, I'm no longer much of a Purdy fan. Try a Wooster Alpha.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

bryceraisanen said:


> I paid for em. And I paid for the bucket they're soaking in which is sitting inside a enclosed tandem axle trailer that I paid for which also BTW, has about another 20k worth of tools in it, that I paid for and is commonly towed around by my 50k dollar Silverado that has a custom paint splattered tailgate and epoxy all over the cockpit and that, you guessed it, I paid for. Yes I paid for the [email protected] brushes.
> 
> If it's about profit, it's about balance. You don't make money having every guy throw their brush away everyday. You pry also don't make it by having everyone turn their clothes inside out b4 they get in the truck.


Amen to that!:thumbup:


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

Hmm good point ive herad this somewhere.lol


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

Oden said:


> This is how I roll. When no working water\drain combo is available. Which is more often than not. For me.


I can clean my brush 100% in (2) 5ers worth of clean water, (takes less than 5 mins). I don't need running water at all.

If I am feeling lazy, I would get the heavy paint out in the 5er, then rap it in plastic and seal the air out with tape.


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

PaintersUnite said:


> I can clean my brush 100% in (2) 5ers worth of clean water, (takes less than 5 mins). I don't need running water at all.
> 
> If I am feeling lazy, I would get the heavy paint out in the 5er, then rap it in plastic and seal the air out with tape.


Yup. but if your on the job Oden is on right now, it would likely take you at least a half hour to go fetch the clean water thats required. you aint cleaning em with two fivers of dirty water. :no:


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

bryceraisanen said:


> Yup. but if your on the job Oden is on right now, it would likely take you at least a half hour to go fetch the clean water thats required. you aint cleaning em with two fivers of dirty water. :no:


Then it would get a quick rinse, wire brush, and rapped in plastic. 
BTW - Oden's water looks pretty clean to me.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

I didn't read the whole thread but if someone uses my brush I tell them not to hog it up. The op's image comes to mind.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

bryceraisanen said:


> Yup. but if your on the job Oden is on right now, it would likely take you at least a half hour to go fetch the clean water thats required. you aint cleaning em with two fivers of dirty water. :no:


Hey I have a bunch of empty 5's in my store. Maybe I can make some money filling them with clean water and selling them in Cali. I bet I could find plenty of free water on the drive out there!


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

Here's my brush after 8 solid hours in 25mph wind at 87 degrees. Am I hired?


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

bryceraisanen said:


> View attachment 51058
> 
> 
> Here's my brush after 8 solid hours in 25mph wind at 87 degrees. Am I hired?


Looks to me like you weren't working hard enough. :jester:


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

I thought the first purdy chinex were awesome. Then they had to go and screw with the quality and bristle count now all purdy brushes are saying stiff when they all seem to be geared for limp. I was a purdy fan for a long time. I like the dunn edwards and woosters now.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Speaking of cleaning latex brushes . . . . 

anyone ever try a splash of ammonia in the rinse water ?

Try it and see if YOU think it helps.


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

daArch said:


> Speaking of cleaning latex brushes . . . .
> 
> anyone ever try a splash of ammonia in the rinse water ?
> 
> Try it and see if YOU think it helps.


I haven't tried that, but I might be cleaning my brushes with some of my tears if the Lightning lose tonight. :blink:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

SemiproJohn said:


> I haven't tried that, but I might be cleaning my brushes with some of my tears if the Lightning lose tonight. :blink:


(My reply got lost, hafta try again)

Thanks for the reminder :thumbup:

Both conferences going to seven, very exciting hockey.

Just remember John, if the Ducks win, and that team from that city that couldn't even think of a different name from that state that's between NJ and CT wins also, we can sit back with Schmidt and hope NO ONE wins :thumbsup:


*GO BOLTS*













*GO HAWKS*


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## jprefect (Mar 4, 2015)

First of all, that brush can be cleaned. It will come back. 

Second, it really depends on what kind of company you are. In the large, industrial companies, I get a new brush (or two) for every single JOB, might go through several per day. They're ****ty All-Pro brushes, bought in bulk, and we never ever wash them. They are disposable, but honestly, they do OK for a **** brush. 

Residential contractors ususally buy nice brushes and keep them. I started out using Purdys, but switched over to Coronas when it was on my dime. Better brush, lasts a long time. 

Third of all, you've got to TRAIN these poor bastards. It takes time and patience. I know I was made to clean out everybody's brushes as a rookie. And, when I was done, they gave them a clean rinse, and I got **** if there was any leaking out of the heel! That's how I learned to care for my tools, and my tools take care of me. I told my guys if they think the brush is clean, I'll give it another rinse, and they'd better be ready to drink the water (if it's latex) when I'm done. I haven't made them do it, but I've done it myself to prove a point. 

So, yeah, also, I'm not going to hand anybody my Chicago Loop. But, Corona makes a brush that sells for $10-12 (2.5" angle) which I will buy for my guys and not worry about. I was given some brushes to start with when I was a rookie. I also got hand-me-downs. Occasionally, the boss would show up with a new brush for the whole crew for a certain job. We always had a 3" (or 3.5" destroyer) straight for walls, and a 3" angle for trim. And we were trained. 

Maybe a good compromise is a tool allowance. Tell them you'll get a brush per month for them. Something like that. Keep it reasonable, and make them clean it in front of you. And, yes, on company time. I swear, every time I see a painter take home a wrapped up brush I cringe. Half the time it comes back in wrapped. Especially if they're my people, I remind them that they get paid to clean their brushes. That is a must. If you don't pay them to clean brushes, you have to buy **** brushes for them every day.


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## jprefect (Mar 4, 2015)

"Jesus Chris, Jeff, is that a paint brush, or a baseball bat??!! Put that down! Go outside and clean that out right now!! WHO WAS WATCHING HIM!!!???!!!"
- My boss, Wayne, on my first job as an apprentice.


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

I don't understand how anyone could expect the person that is making you money, to provide their own tools to make said money. 

If they consume more than they produce, you get rid of them. 

Find a better brush option so it doesn't have to be such a big deal. I found a brush that I am relatively happy with for most painting tasks. I can normally get it for about $8.50, but they were having a good sale so I just bought a case (12) for less than $69 out the door. How much money does a brush that is less than $6 actually need to make you?

Now, I'm not saying trash them, but if I can have $36 worth of brushes make it through a few jobs, that's probably good enough. If it starts getting frayed out, or whatever, it goes in the primer/duster/stain brush drawer.


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## benthepainter (Jun 17, 2011)

I know who the f###k tapes up the ferrule lol 

Normally if the paint dries were the bristles meet the ferrule it's then an extra effort to clean 

As I tape mine up I pull the tape it removes that problem I then rinse my brush under the hose at my envirowash a few minutes I'm done then I hook them on the side of the pot to soak 

I may be a sole trader and my brushes last for ever 
If I had a team I would expect the same its not just looking after the brushes it's mainly to save time 

And times money 

I guarantee it's super quick cleaning brushes when the ferrule has been taped 

I wouldn't be doing it if it didn't save time






















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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

That's a lot of brushes for one guy to go through in a day.

Or that was your lot for the week? Month?

No matter, you got a great set up either way.


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

Also, all those fluted handles you got there are my favorite as well.

Can't stand the rattails.


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## benthepainter (Jun 17, 2011)

I paint paint said:


> That's a lot of brushes for one guy to go through in a day.
> 
> Or that was your lot for the week? Month?
> 
> No matter, you got a great set up either way.



That's probably one small jobs worth that job was maybe two week job plus a few little jobs over the weekends 


I wrap them up in plastic end of each day 

All my ceilings are white so allot of times I may have a brush wrapped up in white for over a month and still peel tape of and its a breeze to wash 

My Mentor old school painter he would want brushes washed out each day ? Waste of time 






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## benthepainter (Jun 17, 2011)

I paint paint said:


> Also, all those fluted handles you got there are my favorite as well.
> 
> Can't stand the rattails.



G'day IPP

Sash brushes are my favourite I hate the small stubby handles prefer the longer handle and style of bristles 


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Hines Painting said:


> I don't understand how anyone could expect the person that is making you money, to provide their own tools to make said money.
> 
> If they consume more than they produce, you get rid of them.
> 
> ...


If you can find a DECENT brush for less than six dollars, and it takes six minutes to clean, then you've reached the point where it's more economical to trash. But if the cheap brush is slowing you down, then obviously it's not economical.

You're lucky if you have found a good tool for that short money.

In the days of solvent paints and Chinese bristle brushes, new trim brushes needed about a day to break-in. Synthetics were good (or bad) right out of the sleeve.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

You brush cleaning guys are killing my add on sales. Your all talking about saving money and you can't even through a poor old paint store a bone! Come on! Save the earth! Buy new brushes every job!


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Proalliance coatings said:


> You brush cleaning guys are killing my add on sales. Your all talking about saving money and you can't even through a poor old paint store a bone! Come on! Save the earth! Buy new brushes every job!


EVERY JOB ! ! !

Why not every DAY ?!?!?!

Hell, start of the day with a brand new shiny one and a fresh new one in the afternoon, 

"lunchtime is new brush time". 

Make THAT sign and hang it next to the brushes :thumbup:


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

daArch said:


> EVERY JOB ! ! !
> 
> Why not every DAY ?!?!?!
> 
> ...


That's a good idea! And I can put pictures of antelopes and rhinosaurasessess on it too! anything for good old planet earth.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Proalliance coatings said:


> That's a good idea! And I can put pictures of antelopes and rhinosaurasessess on it too! anything for good old planet earth.


or our favorite nearly extinct animal - so rare, folks think it's imagined


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

bryceraisanen said:


> View attachment 51058
> 
> 
> Here's my brush after 8 solid hours in 25mph wind at 87 degrees. Am I hired?


You need to put some stop rust spray on that old brush! :jester:


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## StatewideRestoration (Apr 15, 2015)

Damn my dad and I buy all of our own brushes, drops everything except for covers,tape and other disposable sundries. We have our own van loaded with our own tools and a drawer full of Corona brushes.


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## daren (Jul 5, 2008)

I'm late to the party but fire that man now. That's a personality problem. No amount of training and babysitting is going to fix it.


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

I like the idea of taping. Im gonna give that a shot.


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## benthepainter (Jun 17, 2011)

BPC said:


> I like the idea of taping. Im gonna give that a shot.



G'day BPC 

I know allot of painters will say how unprofessional lol but I swear it makes cleaning them super quick 

This arvo I had a bunch to wash some have been wrapped up and used over two weeks and once tape is pulled super easy to clean quick rinse with the hose then the lightest wire brush then soak them 

I like my things super clean I have many times thought to mask up the handle lol but I thought that
Will be a little much 

( let me know if you find it quicker to wash them out ? )
But wow they would look like new












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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

The extra-long dowel handle--cool. We get stubby pencils over here.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Taping the ferrel is a good idea Ben. I remember doing that sometime back when I worked with oils more. I stopped because the tape would fall off due to the solvents. But with the waterborne paints it makes sense. Especially in draught conditions where you don't want to be using unnecessary amounts of water cleaning the ferrel. 

Is that a waste water recycler, or just a sink and waste water container? I tried to make a DIiY water recycler recently by stacking three plastic trays filled with a weed fabric and sand. I thought I was pretty clever until all the waste water seeped right through in less than a minute. A real fail!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

benthepainter said:


> G'day BPC
> 
> I know allot of painters will say how unprofessional lol but I swear it makes cleaning them super quick
> 
> ...


SHHHHHH. That secret was supposed to stay in Australia! How am I supposed to sell brushes now?


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## benthepainter (Jun 17, 2011)

I paint paint said:


> The extra-long dowel handle--cool. We get stubby pencils over here.



G'day IPP

They are my go to brushes for the narrow sash windows I had a window to recoat today so picked up a couple 
the bristles aren't that long but they are soft and work well for the narrow timber










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## benthepainter (Jun 17, 2011)

CApainter said:


> Taping the ferrel is a good idea Ben. I remember doing that sometime back when I worked with oils more. I stopped because the tape would fall off due to the solvents. But with the waterborne paints it makes sense. Especially in draught conditions where you don't want to be using unnecessary amounts of water cleaning the ferrel.
> 
> Is that a waste water recycler, or just a sink and waste water container? I tried to make a DIiY water recycler recently by stacking three plastic trays filled with a weed fabric and sand. I thought I was pretty clever until all the waste water seeped right through in less than a minute. A real fail!



G'day CA

Yeah the tape is working well I've been doing it for maybe three years 

That's the envirowash from Dulux basically a pimped out garbage bin with a sink and electric and hand pump and filter










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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

benthepainter said:


> G'day IPP
> 
> They are my go to brushes for the narrow sash windows I had a window to recoat today so picked up a couple
> the bristles aren't that long but they are soft and work well for the narrow timber
> ...


 Those leaded glass windows are awesome. Are they originals or reproductions?


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

I paint paint said:


> The extra-long dowel handle--cool. We get stubby pencils over here.


I checked the UPC on that one extra long brush, and it is made by Australian Brush Company. Their website says that they operate in Australia, New Zealand, And The United States, but I cannot find any wholesale or retail outlet anywhere on the interweb. I don't know of any US brush manufacturer that makes something like that. I can see were it could be quite handy doing window frames and such because it would be much easier to flip the brush, like a true varnish brush handle.

The closest thing I can find in the US (and I sell them) is the Picasso angled oval brush, but it has the standard (at least in the US) sash handle.


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## Brökar Painting (Apr 29, 2015)

I supply brushes and everything else but if they do not treat the materials and equipment with care and the brush can't last as long as it should then I'm to point of asking them to supply their own brush. I had a guy I supplied roller arms to and within 2 days broke the end on both by slamming them on the ground to get the roller off. When I told him those things aren't free he laughed. 
I also take it all with me and clean which is starting to wear on me. I don't have a location where the employees can go and clean the materials used and leave them. I'm not sure about sending stuff home with them so I take care of it myself.


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