# How do you pay for materials?



## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

A comment in another thread got me curious.
Thanks!


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Pesos


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Accounts for everything. Paid in full monthly.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

I clicked all of them but the HO deposit thing. I do not use the store credit but it is an option.


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

I pay cash (debit card). Usually after I deposit the deposit. If I don't get the money in the bank fast enough, then I use the credit account at the store and pay it off when the check clears the bank.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Man you got to have CC for that.


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

What, is this a collection of info to be used by the VerNEPS in future posts??? Seriously, this falls into the catagory of nunya, until we all start putting what we charge with the pictures we post...otherwise this topic will not end well...especially for those of us who are honest...


lol, VerNEPS.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Do you guys use cc for paying you monthy paint bills?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

johnpaint said:


> Do you guys use cc for paying you monthy paint bills?


:no:


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## RPS (May 13, 2010)

Pay with check with or without deposit and use store accounts. Pay my accounts as draws come in to keep them paid off. Dont like them to linger with a balance.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Store credit, company debit card and checks. I shop at 10 different stores but only have credit lines at my two main suppliers. 


Wise - we didnt set up this poll. Why start drama for no reason? My poll would of asked "how much did you spend in materials last year?"


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## LOSTinDETAILS (Jun 17, 2009)

Store credit with the big three as well as a CC. I find it much easier to deal with one big bill then a butt load of small ones. Also I am a big fan of priority points. Check please.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

WisePainter said:


> What, is this a collection of info to be used by the VerNEPS in future posts??? Seriously, this falls into the catagory of nunya, until we all start putting what we charge with the pictures we post...otherwise this topic will not end well...especially for those of us who are honest...
> lol, VerNEPS.


I guess i could have made it private, you don't have to answer.



johnpaint said:


> Do you guys use cc for paying you monthy paint bills?


I have read where some do that, and get lots of bonus points from the CC company. It makes sense, as long as you pay CC off every month. I wouldn't though. My main paint store does a prelein on most jobs. If we get stiffed (never have), then they would go after GC or HO. I'd be SOL if I used a CC.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

johnpaint said:


> Do you guys use cc for paying you monthy paint bills?


I used to Amex them all for miles.

I dont recommend it.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> Store credit, company debit card and checks. I shop at 10 different stores but only have credit lines at my two main suppliers.
> 
> 
> Wise - we didnt set up this poll. Why start drama for no reason? My poll would of asked "how much did you spend in materials last year?"


I confess. My poll would have been:

Do you ask the customer to:

_Purchase the paint for you_

_Come to the store with you_

_Give you gas money_

Dont worry wisey. No one is really interested. Besides, RCP made it an anonymous poll. 

Nyump.


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

johnpaint said:


> That's just it Wise some of us are.



A woman has to keep a few secrets from the "over sharing" machine (a.k.a. teh internetz).


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## In Demand (Mar 24, 2008)

I dont buy materials untill the customers deposit check has cleared so I guess I use the deposit. Sometimes on smaller jobs I will waive the deposit and just buy the materials, but anything over $500 worth of materials has to have the check cleared first and the money in my account.
I have a credit account at the major stores, but I use it mostly for equiment and sundries and things, I dont normally put paint on it. I have been charged for paint I didnt order before and managed to catch it because of the way I operate. My favorite store also provides me with a larger discount then I should be getting considering the ammount of paint I buy, so if I charged it all I would have to pay a higher price for everything because they would have to go off of my actual pricing and wouldnt be able to throw me the better discount.


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## AztecPainting (Jan 28, 2010)

I've never have a credit card in my life before till I applied for it and got it couple of weeks ago (the bank only gave me $500.00 limit, lol) I just pay Debit or use my wifes cc if I really need to.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Seems like deposits are a critical component of the process.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Yeah, I pay mine off every month and find it easier that way.


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## RPS (May 13, 2010)

I usually ask the ho if they will get the paint for me and pick me up somthing to eat while their out. Or make me a sandwich.:thumbsup:


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

I find it amazing that you didn't offer a:

I pay cash-----period. choice

Must be a hack thing,,, ya know


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I find it amazing that you didn't offer a:
> 
> I pay cash-----period. choice
> 
> Must be a hack thing,,, ya know



lol!!!! you aren't cool cashman!!!!


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## capitalcity painting (Apr 28, 2008)

I dont understand the deposit. Put the damn paint on a job # and if they dont pay up then SW or whomever will go after them. If you come to my house wanting money to get started then you can forget getting the job. Wake up you guys and run a damn business. You wont buy paint until the check clears? Do you tell the customer that? I always put it on my account and just recently started paying that account with a miles card to build that up. If I had a bigger crew and buying more paint then I probably wouldnt be comfortable doing that as Neps said, but I'm good with it now.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> RCP
> 
> For the love of God, if anyone starts a poll that goes:
> 
> ...


LOL, I was just curious! 
I was thinking of "how much of a deposit do you ask for?"


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Store credit and credit card.

Never had a outstanding debt large enough that I needed a credit line.


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## capitalcity painting (Apr 28, 2008)

WisePainter said:


> credit or not...you mean the "buy stuff when you have no money" process that tanked the economy?
> 
> I laughed my arse off as countless big boy painting co.'s went bankrupt leaving paint stores with thousands in unclaimed balances...and I am gonna laugh more.
> 
> Life is good actually!


Wise your talking about the jerk offs that were robbing Peter to pay Paul not the guys that were running a paint business. But yes I laugh at those guys too. When the manager tells me they are cut off because they owe $80,000 and they are pricing stuff for $1.00/ sq ft then yes I have no choice but laugh its either that or bang my head against a brick wall.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Someone might have had a bad experience with credit one time.


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

capitalcity painting said:


> I dont understand the deposit. Put the damn paint on a job # and if they dont pay up then SW or whomever will go after them. If you come to my house wanting money to get started then you can forget getting the job. Wake up you guys and run a damn business. You wont buy paint until the check clears? Do you tell the customer that? I always put it on my account and just recently started paying that account with a miles card to build that up. If I had a bigger crew and buying more paint then I probably wouldnt be comfortable doing that as Neps said, but I'm good with it now.



I get 50% upfront and have done this consistently for 11 years. My Father did it for 25, his Uncle did it for 30.

Your assumption that I am not a "business owner" because I don't do it your way is [email protected]


Btw, I have an account, yet choose not to use it.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> Is this one of those threads with a hidden meaning about how to charge and how to run a business that makes a profit?


Thats what I am trying to figure out. If you have good credit and use your accounts responsibly by paying them off every month to avoid interest, which requires positive cash flow, does this make you a bad business person, or just a bad person? :blink:


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## LOSTinDETAILS (Jun 17, 2009)

johnpaint said:


> Do you guys use cc for paying you monthy paint bills?


I have been for quite some time. The bill gets paid at the end of the month. Its probably not smart but hell I am addicted to the points. I exchange them in for gift cards and alot of other cool things. My card is no interst and no fee as long as it is paid off.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

WisePainter said:


> I get 50% upfront and have done this consistently for 11 years. My Father did it for 25, his Uncle did it for 30.
> 
> Your assumption that I am not a "business owner" because I don't do it your way is [email protected]
> 
> ...


I couldnt imagine waling into one of my clients offices with my tail between my legs asking for paint money to start a job. Talk about putting yourself in a negative position for negotiations. Bad business.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> I couldnt imagine waling into one of my clients offices with my tail between my legs asking for paint money to start a job. Talk about putting yourself in a negative position for negotiations. Bad business.


:yes:


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

for jobs that will take a few days or longer, i ask for 1/3 of the labor up front, and all of the estimated materials costs.

i dont bankroll peoples paint jobs.

im a house painter, not a bank.

could i bankroll them? yes.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Any *RESIDENTIAL *project over 5k I require a percentage on day 1 of the project. I want to make sure the HO is a commited as we are.


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## RPS (May 13, 2010)

As far as deposits go.... I like to collect draws as work is completed. Third, third balance. I know people that got burned. I know a guy that has been waiting a year for 30,000.00. My dad got burned for 17,000.00 in '91. Im not a bank especially for developers who use the completion of the job to get more money from the bank. If you cant give me a deposit than you're not serious. If you dont trust me then I dont want to work for you. I dont need the deposit before I start as long as there is a payment arrangement. Hell, it can be a week after I start. This all depends on the size of the job and the relationship.


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## y.painting (Jul 19, 2009)

1. Store credit line. Pay at end of month in full.

2. Company CC for purchases in stores where we don't have an account. Pay at end of month in full.

I don't carry cash anymore. Just online transfers for 99.9% of things, including CC and store credit pmts. Makes life much simpler and easier to account for.

PS - "companies" that ask HOs to purchase paint are like hospitals that tell their patients to come in with personal sutures/bandages/IVs.


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

i like getting some $$$ beforehand, i can buy beer for lunch and put gas in the camaro.


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## wje (Apr 11, 2009)

I never understood the whole asking for material money, asking for a deposit, getting the homeowner to supply the paint and offering your contractor pricing to customers thing. 

Buy what you need to buy to complete the service you said you would complete, and then collect your money.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Another straight forward topic gone a-rye. 
I do not ask for a deposit it to start a job either. I know some do and they have their reasons for doing such but I am of the type that carrys the job and gets paid at the end. Unless it is a large scale job and then a payscale is put into play.


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

i flat out tell people im not a bank.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

I think next time a customer offers to buy the materials I will tell him I require a new 695 to complete his project. :jester:


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## y.painting (Jul 19, 2009)

wje said:


> I never understood the whole asking for material money, asking for a deposit, getting the homeowner to supply the paint and offering your contractor pricing to customers thing.


You don't? Haven't you ever gone to a barber who has you bring in your own scissors? Or how about the body shop that asks you supply your own car paint so that they can paint your car? Or the dry-cleaning place that has you bring in your own cleaning chemicals so that you can get your suit cleaned? Or the restaurant that has you bring in raw ingredients so that they can prepare your food? Or the...


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

a gc i worked for estimated a job he wasnt set up for (removing a foundation and basement)

he took the DRAW and bought the bobcat with the jackhammer attachment and did the job.

god bless $$$$ up front.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

Aww, look what has happened to my thread!:jester:

So how do you guys pay your helpers/employees?:whistling2:

Or yourself?


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## RPS (May 13, 2010)

Credit or I owe you


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## LOSTinDETAILS (Jun 17, 2009)

RCP said:


> Aww, look what has happened to my thread!:jester:
> 
> So how do you guys pay your helpers/employees?:whistling2:


Ill take this one guys, Check please!:jester:


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

high fibre said:


> a gc i worked for estimated a job he wasnt set up for (removing a foundation and basement)
> 
> he took the DRAW and bought the bobcat with the jackhammer attachment and did the job.
> 
> god bless $$$$ up front.


ever tried getting a little "up-front" from a hooker ???


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

RCP said:


> Aww, look what has happened to my thread!:jester:
> 
> So how do you guys pay your helpers/employees?:whistling2:
> 
> Or yourself?


You want me to clean it up for ya? Slap some of these ingrates around?


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

RCP said:


> Aww, look what has happened to my thread!:jester:
> 
> So how do you guys pay your helpers/employees?:whistling2:


 
most of my mexicans get a weekly check and 1099's. they are all legit, and told me their ssn's.


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

RCP said:


> So how do you guys pay your helpers/employees?:whistling2:
> 
> Or yourself?



Pay who? :whistling2:


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

If a job is over several thousand I will always get money upfront. Its not that I couldn't finance the project for my customer, but I think thats bs. I want to know they want it. If they can't come up with it, how the they gonna come up with it in a couple weeks?


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> ever tried getting a little "up-front" from a hooker ???


yes, ive been to red light districts around the world, and loved every one of them.


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

high fibre said:


> for jobs that will take a few days or longer, i ask for 1/3 of the labor up front, and all of the estimated materials costs.
> 
> i dont bankroll peoples paint jobs.
> 
> ...


Yup. I'll collect a deposit equal to 1/3 the total price on the day I start the job. Also have a small line of credit at a paint store.


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

50% Down! :thumbsup:


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## AztecPainting (Jan 28, 2010)

I ask for a deposit always and I know some people don't wanna pay for it, well how the f... am I gonna make sure the wanna pay me at the end 100% if they don't wanna pay me for just 15%, I just ask for that because I need to know they are serious, I only get a deposit the first day I start the job, not before, sometimes the cheque is not even available for like a week but at least I have it so I don't feel too bad, I do this even with contractors and they are pretty happy with it, at least they haven't complaint about it. Well they have not choice, they either pay me or they can hire different mexican... lol


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

AztecPainting said:


> I ask for a deposit always and I know some people don't wanna pay for it, well how the f... am I gonna make sure the wanna pay me at the end 100% if they don't wanna pay me for just 15%, I just ask for that because I need to know they are serious, I only get a deposit the first day I start the job, not before, sometimes the cheque is not even available for like a week but at least I have it so I don't feel too bad, I do this even with contractors and they are pretty happy with it, at least they haven't complaint about it. Well they have not choice, they either pay me or they can hire different mexican... lol



There is something about paying a contractor and feeling good about it. Whether it's 15%, 50% or 100% at the end, people just like to spend money when they have it. It's partly to do with ownership. When the money is spent then the product is owned. There really is not etiquette to how a contractor gets paid as long as everyone (HO and Contractor) is in agreement.


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> There is something about paying a contractor and feeling good about it. Whether it's 15%, 50% or 100% at the end, people just like to spend money when they have it. It's partly to do with ownership. When the money is spent then the product is owned. There really is not etiquette to how a contractor gets paid as long as everyone (HO and Contractor) is in agreement.


now thats some good stuff.

an agreement.:notworthy:


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

It depends. I always get a deposit to work on a H/O'ers project, I don't have any more than 10% left at the end of the job so they don't have a large amount over my head should they want to not pay me. Depending on the project for commercial/industrial I would/could get the materials bought and submit for payment immediately (in the nearest run of checks) and will submit progress billing till job is done. OR I can always get a "job" account created with the owners SS#'s tied to the job so that if they bounce on me they get a lein by the paint company also.

SO what do I do? D all the above. Whatever works for the job.

Why was this thread made anyway?


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## VanDamme (Feb 13, 2010)

I love all the "Absolutes" in this forum. Basically what that says is "If you don't do it my way then you're a POS" Cracks me up!


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

VanDamme said:


> I love all the "Absolutes" in this forum. Basically what that says is "If you don't do it my way then you're a POS" Cracks me up!


whatever works... works.


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## VanDamme (Feb 13, 2010)

TJ Paint said:


> whatever works... works.


Agreed. Whatever works for YOU. Some of these yahoo's think it's their way or the highway. Cracks me up!


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

VanDamme said:


> I love all the "Absolutes" in this forum. Basically what that says is "If you don't do it my way then you're a POS" Cracks me up!


Are you just now learning this?


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

VanDamme said:


> I love all the "Absolutes" in this forum. Basically what that says is "If you don't do it my way then you're a POS" Cracks me up!


Conform damn you! :jester:


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## VanDamme (Feb 13, 2010)

johnpaint said:


> Are you just now learning this?


No. I've known everything for quite a few years now :whistling2:


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Job accounts, credit cards. Pay in full every month. I collect a deposit on some jobs, it gets deposited in my bank account. 
.
I had a client that wanted 
to pay the store directly. He was cool as hell, that's just what he wanted to do.


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## brushmonkey (Jan 4, 2010)

I usually collect a 3rd down at signing on large jobs, then another 3rd progress payment @ 2/3rds complete & and then the final payment upon HO inspection. Never had a problem yet.

I think a 3rd down makes people feel safe on large jobs. (I know I feel safer) We've all heard the stories of hack asles that bail & run with large deposits. I just need enough for the bulk of materials & a week or two of labor cost. Im not a big enough company to fully credit the big jobs yet...why should I?? :no: I think both parties should share mutual risk. Keeps everybody honest.

Commercial is another story. Pay everything up front, then wait 30-60 days for pmyt if your lucky. Whats up with that! :jester:


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## BC_Painter (Feb 14, 2010)

brushmonkey said:


> I usually collect a 3rd down at signing on large jobs, then another 3rd progress payment @ 2/3rds complete & and then the final payment upon HO inspection. Never had a problem yet.
> 
> I think a 3rd down makes people feel safe on large jobs. (I know I feel safer) We've all heard the stories of hack asles that bail & run with large deposits. I just need enough for the bulk of materials & a week or two of labor cost. Im not a big enough company to fully credit the big jobs yet.:no: Someday..
> 
> Commercial is another story. Pay everything up front, then wait 30-60 days for pmyt if your lucky. Whats up with that! :jester:



1/3 down eh, I usually collect 20%

This is up from the 10% down I was "taught" to collect :thumbsup:
Then again some people give me hell for collecting one at all! ( No HO probs though )


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

BC_Painter said:


> 1/3 down eh, I usually collect 20%
> 
> This is up from the 10% down I was "taught" to collect :thumbsup:
> Then again some people give me hell for collecting one at all! ( No HO probs though )


I used to do 20% (on repaints only, as working for builders you don't get deposits), but when my out-of-pocket costs on a job are usually 30-35% I figured "why am I paying money out of my own pocket to work for you? Isn't it supposed to work the other way?". So I upped the deposit amt to 33%, take another third after 7 working days, and balance on completion. That way, i'm never spending out of pocket, and if I get stiffed on the balance (which thankfully I never have) i'm not really out anything. 

I only take deposits the day the job actually starts, and I show up to the job that day with all the required paints/mats etc before I collect a deposit cheque - it's just good business IMO to work within payment schedules that keep you ahead instead of behind.


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## brushmonkey (Jan 4, 2010)

I feel better about a 3rd. Everyone has a formula that works for them. In most remodel or NC jobs GC's collect 1/2 down before the porta potty gets dropped off. Why not us?? By the time the painters are getting to the job if they cant drop a 3rd of your bid down you've got to wonder why. Usually its because on most large jobs the HO's or GC's budget is getting squeaky tight from construction change orders, unforeseen job cost overruns etc. We're one of the last trades in before new carpet & new furniture. Whats that?? Low on cash?.. NOT MY PROB! We go in & make everyone before us look gooood! Pay up! Im not doing this for love. :no:


BC_Painter said:


> 1/3 down eh, I usually collect 20%
> 
> This is up from the 10% down I was "taught" to collect :thumbsup:
> Then again some people give me hell for collecting one at all! ( No HO probs though )


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

A seemingly simple poll turns into this...LOL.

Everything is paid in full on a 28 day cycle. One acct. with SW, any other stores I used were paid by check at time of purchase. If it was insurance resto where materials other than paint was used, I used store credit cards - paid on a 28 day cycle....and then waited for the insurance co. check to come in. (Some of those were real fun....).

Personally if I had a big purchase and had a 0% interest card for the first 6 or 12 months of opening the account I would use those - just making sure it was paid on time and in full. Great way to build good credit and FICO scores.


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

VanDamme said:


> Agreed. Whatever works for YOU. Some of these yahoo's think it's their way or the highway. Cracks me up!


thats probably why a lot of people are self employed.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

capitalcity painting said:


> I dont understand the deposit. Put the damn paint on a job # and if they dont pay up then SW or whomever will go after them. If you come to my house wanting money to get started then you can forget getting the job. Wake up you guys and run a damn business. You wont buy paint until the check clears? .


Not only will I not buy the paint, I won't start the job! (Homeowners only.)

If you can't afford to write a good check before the job starts, you probably aren't going to be able to when it is finished.

That said, customers with established relationships get treated differently.

I run a business, and am all over covering my butt. :thumbsup:


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

^^^^customers with established relationships get treated differently^^^^

good stuff


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

Wow!!! 7 pages you guys must of been up all night!!!!
Line of credit at every paint store,big box or supplier that we need to do business with.Paid in full end of month.This way guys can go wherever they need to whenever they need.(increases efficiency) All purchases have a job name and signature for tracking & job costing.
As far as deposits for projects,Anything over $10,000 requires 1/3 at start of project,1/3 after 1st week,the rest is paid upon completion.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

We should have another poll on how many of us have been burned by a customer. Knocking on wood as I type this, I have been lucky and have not had that happen yet. I know there has been several times I have showed up to do a estimate to continue a job where they just fired the previous painters. Im looking around and really can't see anything wrong I start to get worried. I know there are two sides to every story. There are allot of scum bag customers out there that will do anything to not pay for services.

It really comes down to the job, If I don't know them and the job is big, I will ask for 10% and weekly progress payments. If its a prior customer that we have good relationships with then its no big deal, just finish the job and get paid at the end.

Pat


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

aaron61 said:


> As far as deposits for projects,Anything over $10,000 requires 1/3 at start of project,1/3 after 1st week,the rest is paid upon completion.


IMHO, a job over 10k is a completely different ball game. The game changes as you build your relationships and what kind of relationships they are (HO, GC, Realtor). As the gross of a job increases I actually require less for a deposit. Most the time it's 0% depending on the relationship. If I do require a deposit, it is within the boundaries of Calif. state law, 10% or $1000 whichever is less. So you can see the deposit is chicken crap compared to the actual cost as the gross increases. So as I don't require a deposit I will require a draw schedule. Draw 1 will be at least 20% BILLED as material is delivered to job, due same date as billed. 
.
I don't think anybody can be wrong in what one requires as payment schedule. We all have different requirements legally and personally. How you conduct your business and how I conduct mine can very. It's should be what is practical for each individual business. Not creating procedures that are difficult to maintain. I do believe one common thing should be practiced by all entities in all states. Is, a contract with the required payment schedule (within the boundaries of your state laws) should be in place. To protect you as a legitimate contractor. And protect your client as well.


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## TheRogueBristle (Mar 19, 2010)

All but first option. I don't take deposits, I just get it from 'em in the end.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

TheRogueBristle said:


> All but first option. I don't take deposits, I just get it from 'em in the end.


 
Getting a deposit keeps me from taking it in the end. :jester:


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

bikerboy said:


> Getting a deposit keeps me from taking it in the end. :jester:


I see the humor here, but joking aside; A benefit of a down payment is this: If for SOME REASON the HO backs out on ya, you are able to keep a fair amount for labor & other expenses and return the rest.


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

Part of considering this option to take a % down or not could be a marketing strategy. I would find it in the HO best interest to accept a NO down payment over a % down payment. That is if they are UNSECURE (trust, not finances...) prospects! Otherwise I can see a higher closing rate with a 0 Down obligation.... This just may be something to experiment with....


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

It is nothing personal, strictly business. That being said, I am a business man and it really has to be non personal when you do business.. otherwise molly H/O will bend you over and stick the whole thing in.. 

And that comes from personal experience. You give a person an inch they take a mile. I DO take up front money, and DO make sure they only have 10% of my money at the end of the job.


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## jayincville (May 25, 2010)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Job accounts, credit cards. Pay in full every month. I collect a deposit on some jobs, it gets deposited in my bank account.
> .
> I had a client that wanted
> to pay the store directly. He was cool as hell, that's just what he wanted to do.



uuhhmm... no! My mark up includes research, travel, pickup, delivery, etc...

I do not finance. Pay me upfront for materials. My employees are mine to take care of. I bid on the job so I must know how to get it done. Materials are something different.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

nEighter said:


> It is nothing personal, strictly business. That being said, I am a business man


Why do I think you say this in front of the mirror at least 3 times a day?:jester:


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

We are all:





 
:jester::jester::jester::jester::jester::jester::jester:


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

On jobs under about $10k, if you even suspect that the customer cant or wont pay you, then you should not be doing the job. 

Put the shoe on the other foot, if you are the customer, would you feel comfortable hiring a paint contractor who cant afford to show up with the paint? What message does that send? Corner cutting, half arse work to hurry and get paid and get on to the next one? 

Some of you guys talk about "not financing jobs" or "not being a bank." Sure, when you get up over $25k on a contract, that might be a concern. But most of the projects we are probably talking about here are a week or maybe two of work on the average. If you cant afford to start the job, have credit with your suppliers to acquire materials on a non cash basis, and execute the job efficiently so that you have a happy customer who will pay in a timely manner on completion, then it might be time to reconsider. I will say that the top level customers, who we all seem to want, will not work with a company that doesnt seem to be financially sound.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

jayincville said:


> uuhhmm... no! My mark up includes research, travel, pickup, delivery, etc...
> 
> I do not finance. Pay me upfront for materials. My employees are mine to take care of. I bid on the job so I must know how to get it done. Materials are something different.


He didn't try and get a cheaper rate. I didn't have a problem with it. Because I didn't have anything to hide. I still managed the paint order. He just went to the store to pay for it. He signed the contract and asked if he could pay for the materials direct. I don't see anything wrong with it. A lil weird but who knows what his history is with prior contractors. I didn't ask cause I didn't care. It worked out great other than I didn't get my points on my cc. Sometime we forget who the customer is, aye?


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

Some of the banks here now write out a two party check directly to the vendor for materials on NC Loans.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

I hate that, one of my vendors recently tried to pull that chit on me. I asked, have I ever been late :no: I've always have taken care of my bills and don't need no stink'n help from no stink'n bank or vendor.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

ewingpainting.net said:


> I hate that, one of my vendors recently tried to pull that chit on me. I asked, have I ever been late :no: I've always have taken care of my bills and don't need no stink'n help from no stink'n bank or vendor.


It is not the vendor requiring it. It is the bank's and Utah's Lein Recovery Fund at work. It is actually a good thing, it protects HOs, subs and vendors from getting stiffed by GC's who get ahead of draws.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

I look at a deposit strictly as a _commitment _to the job by the HO. I still have a contract signed, but for some reason when money is exchanged the customer feels more "locked in".

I usually buy paint the day before. A few years ago, for some reason, I bought the paint almost a week before the the job. Well they cancelled on me and I was stuck with the paint and no deposit. _Thats_ why I ask for a deposit, not to "pay for the paint".

Of course previous customers don't need to pay a deposit on the average job.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

RCP said:


> It is not the vendor requiring it. It is the bank's and Utah's Lein Recovery Fund at work. It is actually a good thing, it protects HOs, subs and vendors from getting stiffed by GC's who get ahead of draws.


In my case its the vendor. I know them well and have dealt with joint checks plenty. It's never been bank funds it's always been the vendor. SW is notorious for doing it. You don't have to have joint checks its the option of the vendor and it doesn't effect your lein rights whether you are set up joint checks or not. In fact it terminates your lein rights sooner if you are joint.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

I'm not sure we are on the same page here. Does your paint vendor file a pre lien on your jobs?


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

RCP said:


> I'm not sure we are on the same page here. Does your paint vendor file a pre lien on your jobs?


Yes, if I decide to open a job account.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Define pre-lien please.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> Define pre-lien please.


Check this out.
When a permit is issued, it generates an account.
We (all subs and suppliers) are required to register on all projects (unless dealing directly with HO).
Suppliers have to as well. We also have to attend a 3 hour class on it every two years as part of License requirements. And all contractors pay into the Lien Recovery Fund yearly ($200 for subs, $500? for GCs). So if you file here, and don't get paid, you can apply to the fund to get paid. 
The banks look at it before they close the loan. The 2 party check thing is not required by the state, or part of the program, it is just something I see starting.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

I am talking about SW starting a prelien with a job account.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

When we start a home, and open a job account, Sherwin files.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

It's a notice that a subcontractor or supplier serves on the owner, general contractor and financier before serving the mechanic’s lien. According to each State’s laws it informs the recipient of lien law and indicates that if payment is not made during the job, that a lien can be filed against the owner of the property.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

I did not know this. I have only had 1 job account for a commercial job the was 100's of gallons. Interesting. Thanks.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

If SW files one. It is only to protect the money on material's that is owed. Your labor would still be unprotected if you as a sub doesn't file a pre-lien as well.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

ewingpainting.net said:


> If SW files one. It is only to protect the money on material's that is owed. Your labor would still be unprotected if you as a sub doesn't file a pre-lien as well.


I thought the whole advantage to having a job account was the ability to use the SW group to go after all funds from the project.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

Every state is different, I don't know if SW does it in other states, but here, it is required, you have to file within 22 days of starting. Then a 90 day clock starts ticking.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

I'm lucky that I have never had to file a lien. By the time most are ready to file and write off the business relationship the time has expired to file a lien. Not a good system.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

ewingpainting.net said:


> If SW files one. It is only to protect the money on material's that is owed. Your labor would still be unprotected if you as a sub doesn't file a pre-lien as well.


Correct


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

The vendors want you to do joint check because they want their money 1st. They'll tell you it protect you. :no: You lose control over the funds and your vendor will be paid off 1st. From the 1st check. As soon as the account is paid in full a unconditional waiver on final payment release in the amount of zero will be issued. Surrendering the vendors lien rights. So if you still are owed money on the job, your hosed unless you as a sub filed a pre lien. It's best to not have joint checks and disperse the funds where needed. That way you have the vendors big guns to use if they don't make payment. They have lawyers that can crush any GC if they haven't goner BK.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> I'm lucky that I have never had to file a lien. By the time most are ready to file and write off the business relationship the time has expired to file a lien. Not a good system.


I have never had to file either. Utah's system is designed to prevent the homeowner from getting a lien from a supplier/sub that did not get paid after the HO paid the GC.


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## VanDamme (Feb 13, 2010)

RCP said:


> When we start a home, and open a job account, Sherwin files.


What's a job account as compared to a regular charge account? Better pricing for that one particular job versus your regular pricing?

I've ever only had one charge account at the paint store.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

Same pricing, it just gets a different account number and name.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

ewingpainting.net said:


> If SW files one. It is only to protect the money on material's that is owed. Your labor would still be unprotected if you as a sub doesn't file a pre-lien as well.


Correction it's the remaining money of what's owed on the contract that is unprotected. If you as a sub don't pre lien


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

nEighter said:


> It depends. I always get a deposit to work on a H/O'ers project, I don't have any more than 10% left at the end of the job so they don't have a large amount over my head should they want to not pay me. Depending on the project for commercial/industrial I would/could get the materials bought and submit for payment immediately (in the nearest run of checks) and will submit progress billing till job is done. *OR I can always get a "job" account created with the owners SS#'s tied to the job so that if they bounce on me they get a lein by the paint company also.*
> 
> SO what do I do? D all the above. Whatever works for the job.
> 
> Why was this thread made anyway?


The prelien is what I was talking about earlier. Wow. Neps and VP not knowing something.. guess we need to write this day on the calendar. 

I don't finance a job. Some of you guys are big enough that I guess you can loose 3, 5, ... 10K and not bat an eye. I can't and I would guess 98% on here couldn't afford to give their time and money away either.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

VanDamme said:


> What's a job account as compared to a regular charge account? Better pricing for that one particular job versus your regular pricing?
> 
> I've ever only had one charge account at the paint store.


The job account is open in the jobs entity name. 
It puts the responsibly on that entity. Your regular account is your entities. responsibility. It's a good tool, you just have to know how to utilize it.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

I am a business man and it really has to be non personal when you do business


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## VanDamme (Feb 13, 2010)

RCP said:


> Same pricing, it just gets a different account number and name.


I'm not trying to be nosy, but how does this help you? I either use job numbers on all invoices or job names.

The receipts stays with me and get attributed to each job.

Is it just easier to have an account # for each job?


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

It's all part of the prelien process, you have to give the HO name (never the SS#), job address and SCR#. This is for New Construction only (well, sometimes large $$ repaints).
Kind of like using two different credit cards as well, keeps one available if one gets close to limit.
So it is just for the larger jobs, still use one acct like you described.
Where the heck are the SW guys now!


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

VanDamme said:


> I'm not trying to be nosy, but how does this help you? I either use job numbers on all invoices or job names.
> 
> The receipts stays with me and get attributed to each job.
> 
> Is it just easier to have an account # for each job?


vvvvv


ewingpainting.net said:


> The job account is open in the jobs entity name.
> It puts the responsibly on that entity. Your regular account is your entities. responsibility. It's a good tool, you just have to know how to utilize it.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

If you don't get it then you don't need it.


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## VanDamme (Feb 13, 2010)

RCP said:


> It's all part of the prelien process, you have to give the HO name (never the SS#), job address and SCR#. This is for New Construction only (well, sometimes large $$ repaints).
> Kind of like using two different credit cards as well, keeps one available if one gets close to limit.
> So it is just for the larger jobs, still use one acct like you described.
> Where the heck are the SW guys now!


Now I see. Thanks. I didn't relate it to the pre-lien process.


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## VanDamme (Feb 13, 2010)

ewingpainting.net said:


> vvvvv


Oh.....I'm sorry....were you talking to me?

I didn't read your post before you got banned, and I sure don't read them after you got un-banned.


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## VanDamme (Feb 13, 2010)

ewingpainting.net said:


> If you don't get it then you don't need it.


I was just asking about something I wasn't familiar with.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

VanDamme said:


> Bite me. I was just asking about something I wasn't familiar with. Sh!t....I have now read two of your posts.


Sometimes...the only way out is to go further in.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

VanDamme said:


> Oh.....I'm sorry....were you talking to me?
> 
> I didn't read your post before you got banned, and I sure don't read them after you got un-banned.


I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings, no need to get bruised over it. I've been dealing with job account for the past 10 years. Thought I'd give you some knowledge on what it a job account is. Even though it's as simple as abc to me, I realize it not for others. 
As far as if one doesn't get it then they don't need. It was not directed at you. It was in general because most likely one never had a job that required it. So therefore one won't understand it until they come upon a job that should require it. I posted some valuable info in this thread and if you want to spit on it and not grab unto what others can offer to help one grow. Then that would be your failure not mine or any others that post valuable info. Job account was one of the 1st thing I learned in business and thought I'd share it without give to much info for my competors. 

I do not mean to offend you and will be more sensitive to your needs. 

Good luck 
Gabe


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## VanDamme (Feb 13, 2010)

I edited my post.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

No prob we all know what road I've been down on these forums. I'm changing my ways on the boards and deserve the lashing. 
Gabe


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

ewingpainting.net said:


> No prob we all know what road I've been down on these forums. I'm changing my ways on the boards and deserve the lashing.
> Gabe


yep, nothing wrong with taken a good beatin now and then. 

Pat


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

View attachment Doc3.doc


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

RCP: Can you post the pic of the graph vs. the link I posted. I think it would make for better conversation? Thanks.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

KLaw said:


> View attachment 5295



how neat - a little pie chart :jester:

pat


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

KLaw said:


> RCP: Can you post the pic of the graph vs. the link I posted. I think it would make for better conversation? Thanks.


use snagit or some other image capturing program.






Pat


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

PatsPainting said:


> how neat - a little pie chart :jester:
> 
> pat


PP: Just breaking it down to the data that was collected. Hoping to make it a data driven conversation. Dammit - now I sound like a nerd.


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

PatsPainting said:


> use snagit or some other image capturing program.
> 
> 
> Pat


Go for it! That sounds like work and beyond my capabilities!


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

PatsPainting said:


> use snagit or some other image capturing program.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Verm: See above. Care to back up your earlier statements?

Mods: I am not egging your boy on. 

Just looking for a good debate. Please pm me if I am out of line. Thanks.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

keV

I guess I don't love the debate as much as you do. It does appear that 44% is less than half of 100%, which would suggest minority, or less than half. In the end, it doesn't matter. Let's not put everyone through the debate. You say potato, I'll say potato, k?


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

KLaw said:


> Verm: See above. Care to back up your earlier statements?
> 
> Mods: I am not egging your boy on.
> 
> Just looking for a good debate. Please pm me if I am out of line. Thanks.


 
It is interesting how once facts are brought into the picture, assumptions and opinions are brought to a minimum. Again, not looking to stir things up. Just looking for a mature and healthy debate.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

I hope you find one keV, if that is important to you.


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

vermontpainter said:


> I hope you find one keV, if that is important to you.


Verm: I am just challenging your false statement. You stated the majority of folks on this forum (per RCP's poll) use cash up front to pay for their matls and labor. After reviewing the poll - you were wrong. Not a big deal. You are right though - I was looking to debate the point.

But, you agreed. So, no need to agrue. Have a good one.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Unless I am missing something the poll clearly states that only 44% use store credit. That would be less than half, meaning the majority of "folks" here do NOT use store credit. Whats the point?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

The pie chart nailed it. I was over in the other thread saying that 44% of respondents indicated use of supplier accounts, but then you corrected me with the cool pie chart which states that 44% of respondents indicated use of supplier accounts. Your pie chart also states that the other three payment categories combined equal more than 44%. no wonder no debate came of it! Cool pie chart. Thanks for helping me to see things another way!


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> Unless I am missing something the poll clearly states that only 44% use store credit. That would be less than half, meaning the majority of "folks" here do NOT use store credit. Whats the point?


Sometimes we just have to break it down? :blink:


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> Unless I am missing something the poll clearly states that only 44% use store credit. That would be less than half, meaning the majority of "folks" here do NOT use store credit. Whats the point?


Well you have to take in the multiple choice option and the fact that the few people that participated in the poll is not the majority of members. Maybe participating members though.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Workaholic said:


> Well you have to take in the multiple choice option and the fact that the few people that participated in the poll is not the majority of members. Maybe participating members though.


The pie chart accounted for that, right?


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Workaholic said:


> Well you have to take in the multiple choice option and the fact that the few people that participated in the poll is not the majority of members. Maybe participating members though.


FUBAR poll then?


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## Harry (Aug 4, 2008)

Sorry Klaw, vermontpainter was correct. he stated "Majority don't have supplier accounts"...and the answer ONCE YOU BREAK IT ALL DOWN is that 56% do NOT have supplier accounts.

We can see that you got a rush when vermontpainter actually made a mistake when he said "It does appear that 44% is less than half of 100%, which would suggest minority, or less than half."

The 44% actually suggested that the MAJORITY didn't use suppliers.

You guys have a lot of time on your hands  Reminds me of the old days on PWC when I used to actually prepare to fight to the death with posts, Hahaha ...


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Harry said:


> You guys have a lot of time on your hands  Reminds me of the old days on PWC when I used to actually prepare to fight to the death with posts, Hahaha ...


gotta get laid more, in my humble opinion.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Prior to tonights episode, this thread was a cool discussion. What changed?


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

vermontpainter said:


> Prior to tonights episode, this thread was a cool discussion. What changed?


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## Harry (Aug 4, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> Prior to tonights episode, this thread was a cool discussion. What changed?


Semantics? 

I feel for Klaw though, he's WRONG! Remember when Fonzi had to say he was wrrrrrroooooronnng? LOL

How ironic is THAT! Rcon posts a video of Dr. Claw (Klaw)??? Hmmmm????

Just kidding, you guys are all sharp...


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Harry said:


> Semantics?
> 
> I feel for Klaw though, he's WRONG! Remember when Fonzi had to say he was wrrrrrroooooronnng? LOL


Good analogy. Someone else said "red headed stepchild of paint talk", but I prefer the more positive spin you have on it. 

If there were a paint talk debate team, we would be tough.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

I want a piece of the pie :jester:


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## y.painting (Jul 19, 2009)

According to my handy margin of error calculator, assuming a sample size of 81 (all of the votes) and a total population of 6440 (all of PT's members), the margin of error in this poll is 10.8%. 

So, both Kevin and Scott could be correct depending on how you tack on the enormous moe %. The sample size is just to small to draw any real conclusions from these numbers.


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## Harry (Aug 4, 2008)

Sure, anyone could be right but that's not what they were arguing about...


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## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

Line of credit at the store is now 67%. I think it will keep changing for a while.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I use money.


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