# Level Five Finish



## The Painter Guy (Dec 10, 2007)

Specs call for level 05 finish, I realize drywall application is critical with a final skim coat over entire surface. I would use a high build primer and walls would receive eggshell finish. Any other suggestions or advice? Also I would plan on spraying and backroll 
Thanks
Jim

P.S We have done this before and while there were no complaints about the painting they were really upset with the drywall company who had never done that type of work before.


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

if its calling for a level 5 finish, then yes by all means, it needs to be skim coated,,,,,,,thats what a lvel 5 is

although a hi build primer might give that effect, im not so certain you will have covered your azz.

here is one way i recently skimmed walls, (they did not spec a level 5, but i did this since i knew a deep tone with a sheen was going on top)

i rolled on thin drywall mud,,,,,,and struck the walls with a magic trowel

im alsmost embarrased to tell other painters this, since the magic trowel is a diy type tool,,,,(it even has a plum color on it) very girly looking

but i liked the results,,,,,and it beat holding the 12' knife with heavier mud, and a pan

instead, the thin mud was in a tray, i rolled it on and easily troweld it with a magic trowel,,,,,,,,sanded, primed and painted

the walls were flawless, amd glass smooth,,,,with a burgundy and a sheen.

and of course a nice skin will help,,,,maybe the micro fiber, or tight woven


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## The Painter Guy (Dec 10, 2007)

*To Clarify*

Thanks John
I would put the hi build primer on after the skim coat, for insurance purpose only. Iwould rely on a drywall contractor to do the actual tape, mud and skim coat. But thanks for the info.
Jim


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## GMack (Jan 18, 2008)

johnthepainter said:


> if its calling for a level 5 finish, then yes by all means, it needs to be skim coated,,,,,,,thats what a lvel 5 is
> 
> although a hi build primer might give that effect, im not so certain you will have covered your azz.
> 
> ...


I can't believe I never considered applying mud this way when I have to skim an entire room! Thanks John


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## slickshift (Apr 8, 2007)

johnthepainter said:


> ...and struck the walls with a magic trowel


Oh hey, they have those where I got my spear and magic helmet
I just figured they were for masons, so I didn't give them a second thought

Do they come with their own drywall pixies or do I need to get them somewhere else?









(...spear and magic helmet? Magic Helmet!!)


Lol

Well, as I've never heard of a Magic Trowel before, your post is pretty funny
I'm figuring it is some sort of tool I haven't seen, or you are a real wisenheimer
Either way...thanks for the laugh

Ever since I saw it in a trade rag, the thought of doing a few simple mods to a paint sprayer and shooting mud through it to get a Level 5 has fascinated me
I have not tried it, nor do I know anyone personally who does
But I keep thinking being able to do that might come in handy


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)




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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

i have seen a drywaller shoot the seams with an airless,,,,

while he was there and shooting the lids with thin mud to stomp, he went ahead and shot the seams and quickly bladed them,,,,,,no mods needed with a the proper rig

im not sure my old 700 could take that

and yes, the magic trowel is an actual tool,,,,,a girly diy tool,,,,,i purchased it for some decorative mud effects,,,,,,its quite embarrassing actually,,,,its nothing more than a firm squeegee,,,,,

the painter guy>>>> what hi build will you use??? sh wms hi build, or possibly usg first coat???? the usg really floats some stuff out. im curious what other painters are using for a hi build primer,,,,,,,,,with all of the deep tones and sheens homeowners are choosing these days, the walls really need to be tight


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## painttofish (Aug 28, 2007)

http://www.o-geepaint.com/Sprayers/Tex.shtml


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## The Painter Guy (Dec 10, 2007)

*Hi-Build*

John 
Sherwin Wms is the plan but only because of their sales rep recommending it.
Jim


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## cullybear (Mar 10, 2008)

We can achieve a level 5 with a high build surfacer. I dont think skimcoating an entire wall is necessary


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## Paul_R (Apr 19, 2007)

The magic trowel looks like it might save time when doing large areas. I have skimmed entire ceilings the old fashioned way with a big knife, but this dealio looks like a winner! Where are they sold? You would think that I would have seen one somewhere, but it doesn't come to mind.

Happy Painting, Paul.


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## Mopaint (Oct 17, 2007)

The magic trowel may sound like a gimmick but it works I just did a 3000 square foot house with it to take out a stomp job that the lady was tired of. Use 90 min mud and a roller for best results and less shrinkage. MOPAINT


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

cullybear said:


> We can achieve a level 5 with a high build surfacer. I dont think skimcoating an entire wall is necessary


A level-5 by definition is joint coumpound skim coated over the entire wall. While I agree that you can obtain the same RESULT by spraying a high build primer and back rolling, it won't meet your "specs" if a level-5 is called for.

I use a graco mark-1V and spray all purpose joint compound after sanding a level 4. any airless with that strong a pump will work, just be sure to remove all the filters (airless and in the gun). I use a 425 tip.

The magic trowel will a great job as well, as will just rolling the mud on the wall, and smoothing with a 12" broad knife, some sanding will be required if a broad knife is used as it will leave lines between the passes.

99% of all flashing joints will dissapear if the prime coat is sprayed on (undiluted) and back-rolled with at least 3/4 knapp (I prefer a 1 or 11/4). I got into painting houses merely by haveing to SHOW the contractor WHY the joints were flashing. If they are primed right, the problem goes away.

I know I'll get blasted for saying that, but its the truth nontheless. Priming is the LAST step in drywall, NOT the first step in painting. 

Peace


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## slickshift (Apr 8, 2007)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I use a graco mark-1V and spray all purpose joint compound after sanding a level 4. ...I use a 425 tip.


Welcome to the site Capt.
Thanks for chiming in
How much j/c do you get from a tip before it starts to go on you?


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## slickshift (Apr 8, 2007)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I know I'll get blasted for saying that, but its the truth nontheless. Priming is the LAST step in drywall, NOT the first step in painting.


Personally, I can really appreciate that
It is kind of like a Carpy that fills the nail holes though
There's nothing like following one who knows how to do it, it's a beautiful thing
But, of course, many that do it... just make more work for us...which is why we (generally) don't care for it
Following a quality prime would be great


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## smalljobs (Feb 3, 2008)

I've got a 36" Sorbo will that work? Its great for windows.:thumbup: 
Seriously, I've got to look into this magic trowel dealeo.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

slickshift said:


> Personally, I can really appreciate that
> It is kind of like a Carpy that fills the nail holes though
> There's nothing like following one who knows how to do it, it's a beautiful thing
> But, of course, many that do it... just make more work for us...which is why we (generally) don't care for it
> Following a quality prime would be great


Ya know, its kinda like your signiture line, its more than just any one thing. Most drywallers and painters are too busy cutting eachother to ribbons, instead of trying to figure out why we keep haveing the same problems over and over, kinda like the line,"what we have here is a failure to communicate" . Now that I do both, I get to blame myself for everything...lol. I change my tip every year, so I'd guess I get about 200 buckets of mud through it before I change it. Don't do too many level 5's cause everybody wants a level 5 for the price of level 4, same ole story. With everybody wanting egg-shell and so many colors these days, all of the jobs should be level 5. But we provide a service, so we're stuck trying to make a level 4 look loke a level 5.

I prefer pva over high build,, whats your opionon on pva primer?


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## waldoc (Jul 4, 2010)

*level 5 finish*

The best way that I have achieved "level 5" is once you have completed finishing the drywall (2-3 coats of mud on the joints, screws, angles etc.) apply prep coat with an airless and immediate backrolling. Then take a light (500 watt) to shine on walls to touch up any defects, then roll just those areas with prep coat, then using an airless spray another (final) coat throughout (no backrolling) which eliminates stipple from the 1st coat applied. The only problem with this is 9 out of 10 do not want to pay for the cost but still want a perfect finish.


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

johnthepainter said:


> if its calling for a level 5 finish, then yes by all means, it needs to be skim coated,,,,,,,thats what a lvel 5 is
> 
> although a hi build primer might give that effect, im not so certain you will have covered your azz.
> 
> ...


who is this creep???


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

high fibre said:


> who is this creep???


Not sure, but I think he was banned long ago.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

johnthepainter said:


> if its calling for a level 5 finish, then yes by all means, it needs to be skim coated,,,,,,,thats what a lvel 5 is
> 
> although a hi build primer might give that effect, im not so certain you will have covered your azz.
> 
> ...


I do the same thing if I have to skim whole walls. Old painter showed me that technique years ago when I was living in Atlanta. Works great.


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## Wallpaper Gypsy (Feb 22, 2010)

It seems to me these days that with level 5, the cya thing is best done with getting a superintendent to sign off on the wall conditions as "ready to paint." That way you can back charge when they send the finishers back in to ruin your finish work. 
I also like to place signs that say, "the walls are a finish product, any further drywall finishing must be approved by "XYZ Painting Co" to avoid back charges. Just a thought because it's rare to see a job theses days that isn't mud starved.


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## StefanC (Apr 29, 2009)

Lately I've been mixing up some joint compound with a touch of water, rolling it on while having a guy skimming it with a 12" knife behind me. You need to work fast though because it sets up quick but it works great for single walls.

If I ever had to do a full house in level 5 I'd just bite the bullet and pick up the big graco rig.


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## VanDamme (Feb 13, 2010)

I spit on your level 5 drywall. Take it to level 6! :jester:


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## Joepro0000 (Jul 27, 2009)

samk069 said:


> It seems to me these days that with level 5, the cya thing is best done with getting a superintendent to sign off on the wall conditions as "ready to paint." That way you can back charge when they send the finishers back in to ruin your finish work.
> I also like to place signs that say, "the walls are a finish product, any further drywall finishing must be approved by "XYZ Painting Co" to avoid back charges. Just a thought because it's rare to see a job theses days that isn't mud starved.


Coming from a drywall contractor who also does ocassional painting jobs, I have to disagree with your sign. Even if you put your final coat, you have to expect to go back one more time in the end of the job, like the last day or two and do minor touch-ups. Why? All the other trades - electricains, sprinkler guys, acoustical guys, AC guys, fixture guys, carpenters, plumbers, etc will bang up the walls or make small errors that will need the drywall finishers to touch them up.


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## Joepro0000 (Jul 27, 2009)

On a level 5 job, we always skim the walls 100%. Some people say its good to do a level 4, prime, skim the wall one more time, sand, and re-prime. Spray and back-roll of course. Or roll only. We been using all types of primers. Kilz works good, just as good as Sherman Williams and BM Primers. Probably this primer called RICHARDSONS is one of the best I used for a level 5.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

Man this an old thread, revived. 

Level-5 = drywall,totally skimed with mud.

Thats what level 5 is, period.

Now, why do we do it, opens a whole can of worms, but a level5 is spec'ed because the paper on drywall and the mud joints on drywall are not the smae, therefore, skimming the entire wall with mud will create a surface that is EQUAL to any sum of the parts of the rest of the wall.:thumbsup:


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## Joepro0000 (Jul 27, 2009)

exactly what he said.


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## Wallpaper Gypsy (Feb 22, 2010)

Joepro0000 said:


> Coming from a drywall contractor who also does ocassional painting jobs, I have to disagree with your sign. Even if you put your final coat, you have to expect to go back one more time in the end of the job, like the last day or two and do minor touch-ups. Why? All the other trades - electricains, sprinkler guys, acoustical guys, AC guys, fixture guys, carpenters, plumbers, etc will bang up the walls or make small errors that will need the drywall finishers to touch them up.



I agree with you about punch/repairs.. It just becomes a problem if you've bid the job as, a prime and two coats, and you give the finishers ample opportunity to do point up between the prime and 1st finish, you've gotten the go ahead to do the finsh coats, and then take off for a weekend and come in monday morning to find that you have to spot prime ad do yet a third finish coat. It's usually a problem of over sanding the job the first time... andnon- english speaking subs...It can blow a narrow profit margin.


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