# killed grass on an f-ing lead job



## Quaid? (Mar 13, 2009)

so, we started a lead job last week. I have trained my guy and I had to leave for the the afternoon, so he set up exterior and plasticed everthing off to start scraping 3 dormirs. the HO has a nice green lawn, right on the side of the house that faced the road. My job site sign is right there, with my new "Lead RRP certified contractor" added to it. I leave for two hours, and tell my guy that we need to be looking legit cuz we're right on the road, but try to cut big slits in the plastic, and only use the minimum amount of it. I come back and hour and a half later, lift up the plastic, and all the grass under it is completely dead and yellow. So now when people drive by and see my sign, theres a 20 ft dead patch of grass behind it. Im so pissed off. I know that there are 'ways around this', but not many practical ones. So just so you know, it dont take long to kill the grass. thanks so much elected officials:thumbsup:


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

Bummer! Are you sure it is dead? We use a product called Sprint 138 that immediately greens up yellow grass and trees, I don't know if would work for you or not? Maybe some green paint?:jester:


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Benjamin Moore "Chrome Green" and a sprayer? :jester:

Seriously, They have to know this is going to happen. Are we supposed to figure in the job price new sod also?


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## LA Painter (Jul 28, 2009)

When I brought this up in class, the instructor said to use “white” plastic - as it will reflect the sun away. Sounds like BS. The lawn will still overheat and die.

Additionally, all the homes I paint are surrounded by a maze of bushes, flowers, rocks, holes, landscape edging, stairs, sprinkler heads, lighting, and a million other things to trip on. Now Im suppose to cover all that in *non-see-thru* plastic, and walk around on it while carrying ladders and paint! :hammer: This is a complete joke, and totally unsafe.

_Neighbor: How did you like your painter?
Customer: They were more expensive than the other bids, and they killed my flowers and lawn. _

:thumbsup:


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## capitalcity painting (Apr 28, 2008)

Yeah I was all ready to dive into this thing and now just think that I wont take on any of these jobs. Luckily my business has for some reason moved away from the older exterior jobs. I do a lot more interior and commercial now. I think now that you would have to be a company that specializes in these jobs in order to make money in it. Build a system and get the rep for doing this kind of work. I wouldnt mind being that guy in my area but for now I'm out.


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

Quaid? said:


> I come back and hour and a half later, lift up the plastic, and all the grass under it is completely dead and yellow. So now when people drive by and see my sign, theres a 20 ft dead patch of grass behind it. Im so pissed off. I know that there are 'ways around this', but not many practical ones.


Sounds familiar:



Last Craftsman said:


> Plastic is not the answer.
> 
> Plastic sheeting kills plants.
> 
> ...



:whistling2:


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Seriously, They have to know this is going to happen. Are we supposed to figure in the job price new sod also?


Not to mention ornamental gardens, banzai trees that have been lovingly pruned for 2 decades, Japanese maples, azaleas, rhododendrons, etc.

This plastic idea on exteriors is retarded. It seems to have been conceived with zero concept of paint prep procedure, and with very little common sense other than the commonly understood attribute of plastic sheeting which is that it can be used as a barrier.

--------------

Capture the lead at the source, right when it is released from the surface.

That is the only sane solution.


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

I remember NOW reading L.C.'s comment for whatever reason forgot about the plant life dieing wow...


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

Sounds to me like the only solution to dealing with lead contamination is to bulldoze and start over. 

Then again, bulldozing will create lead contamination --- burn it!!


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## BC_Painter (Feb 14, 2010)

Rcon said:


> Sounds to me like the only solution to dealing with lead contamination is to bulldoze and start over.
> 
> Then again, bulldozing will create lead contamination --- burn it!!



I would figure burning isn't allowed for the same reason as heat guns aren't for stripping old paint.

What do I know though >.<



Just can't win


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## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

I am with Capitalcity, until the EPA can come up with more intelligent regs such as capturing the lead at its source like Last Craftsman suggested, I also am steering clear of lead jobs. 
I did lead abatement for several years in PA, what a pain in the as-, bunny suits, plastic, mask, paper work, blood work every few months, and constantly changing laws and regs. I think anything built before 1978 should be torn down so we can all get back to work without fear of the EPA enjoying our profits. Just my 2 cents.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

You could set up a vertical containment one foot away from the house. If your a fat guy just make it two feet.

Pat


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

PatsPainting said:


> You could set up a vertical containment one foot away from the house. If your a fat guy just make it two feet.
> 
> Pat


Makes me think of a time 10 years ago. We were painting a tract community. 2 guys roll up and ask for work. One of them was 450 plus. I looked at him like ya right. But WTF I give most every one a chance. "You got one week" I said. Gave them the supplies and off I went. I followed back up at the end of the day, WOW the big dude had done double the work. Rolled and cut out 2 units. He worked the next 6 years for us.


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

Lambrecht said:


> I did lead abatement for several years in PA, what a pain in the as-, bunny suits, plastic, mask, paper work, blood work every few months, and constantly changing laws and regs.
> 
> I am with Capitalcity, until the EPA can come up with more intelligent regs such as capturing the lead at its source like Last Craftsman suggested,


I think they should pursue vacuum tools and or wet procedures for this purpose.

Also peel away, and or infra-red.

A containment shroud with a strong vacuum attached could be pressed against the wall and a glove fastened to the box could allow one to use a putty knife and or scraper to remove peeling paint. The entire surface in the containment area could even be dusted or washed before the containment shroud is moved to the next section. Preferably just dusted.

Realistically that would capture 99.99 % of any chips and particles.

It would certainly capture 10 times more lead than is captured by simply scraping and collecting the chips after they have fallen.

I think 99.99% is good enough. That is probably a dozen times better than what used to be allowed into environment.

True progress requires realistic goals.

I am not even sure how necessary a fully contained shroud is. I would think a very strong one by two foot vacuum right under the scraping area would still capture close to 99% of all of the chips.

The weight of the device could be suspended from the roof, operated from a scaffold, or perhaps raised from the ground on it's own boom.

Once the containment shroud was moved, the section could even be immediately primed to lock in any potential lead exposed to the environment.

Resulting paint chip surface variation could just be ignored ( we often did this anyway to eliminate the lead dust from feathering the edges, and this also lowers prep cost. Most of the time paint chips completely disappear when the house is viewed from the street ), or elastomeric patching compound could be applied in the area to either fill the chipped area completely, or create transitions that could then be lightly feathered out with a hepa equipped dustless sander.

Essentially you use the patching compound to create transitions inside the chip boundaries instead of sanding the transitions into several layers of paint.

This way when you are sanding, 99% of what you are sanding is patching compound, and you barely touch any paint, and the little amount that is touched is sucked up by the vacuum.

--------------

With containment shrouds perhaps even mechanical means could be implemented at the surface and controlled from outside the shroud.

Certainly, simply removing loose chips creates far less small particles to deal with, but if the shroud was effective enough this could open up the possibility of using mechanical wire brushes inside the shroud that would be controlled from outside the shroud that could be pressed against the painted surface and very very quickly and easily remove loose paint.

This would actually DECREASE the difficulty of the labor for the operator since the paint removal was being done mechanically, and would easily offset any extra logistics associated with using the device.

Perhaps it could even cut scraping time in HALF. That would be something, to come with a method which captures 10 times more lead than old paint removal methods, but actually reduces the prep time and hence prep cost by half.

99.99% lead recaptured from the surface and half cost of removing paint with pre- RRP methods!

With the exception of detailed trim and difficult to reach areas, I think that is actually a realistic possibility.

It would mean contractors could tell consumers we are now recapturing 99.99% of all of the lead, and it now costs half as much to remove it as when standard procedure was to remove it manually.

------------ 

EPA if you read this: Just capture the lead *BEFORE it flies all over the place*. 

It is absolutely ridiculous to create a huge tent on the side of a house, then scatter lead ALL OVER the inside of the tent, the scaffolding, the tools, and the workers and then try to dismantle all of that rigging without a bunch of lead flying into the environment.

The scaffolding and or ladders etc. are covered in it. How does that get cleaned? Obviously the scaffolding and other tools are not disposable. I wouldn't even consider that much plastic "disposable" but apparantly the EPA who is out to protect the environment thinks it is great for the environment to fill up landfills with all that plastic. 
Aren't they smart?

:yes:

Seriously the sheer genius of the problem solving methods implemented by the RRP regulations is mind boggling.

Even if the job only requires spreading plastic on the ground, all of the benefits of of capturing the removed paint at the source right when it is released STILL APPLY. 

------------

Obviously the tools for these procedures don't currently exist. But I am sure there are a wide variety of simple vacuum designs that would accomplish the goal of capturing the paint at the source right when it is removed from the surface.

It would be effective to have this part of the prepping procedure become it's own trade. It would create specialists, who have the training, special vacuum equipment, booms if necessary, specialized rigging if necessary, who could roll up and complete the job very quickly.

This would actually relieve a lot of stress for painters, because not many people enjoy the paint removal process with all of the associated logistics, ESPECIALLY now that RRP regulations are in full effect.

And painters who didn't want to relinquish this part of their market could become certified and obtain the necessary equipment, and do the paint removal on their own jobs, and also operate that division as an independent business.

--------------



Lambrecht said:


> I also am steering clear of lead jobs.


That is our plan for the first year at least. Let other people work out the kinks.



Lambrecht said:


> I think anything built before 1978 should be torn down




I love pre-1978 houses. Lets hope they figure out a reasonable procedure for removing paint from them.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

dust controls for grinders:

http://www.dustlesstechnologies.com/dustbuddie.htm


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

When I read these threads, it reminds me why I don't get certified - I rather just let the 'storm' blow over. Hopefully there will be changes in the next couple of years that makes approaching this work more sane and less insane. What I don't get is if you come to a house that is pre-78 but doesn't have a lick of lead on it - does it still get treated as a lead job? Does it have to be documented by a lead certified contractor that there is no lead? Or is it assumed to be lead and treated as such even if you know there is nothing, as in a total residing done after '78.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Since scraping and chipping paint are separate activities from sanding, why couldn't a mesh tarp, http://www.eagleind.com/site383.php, be used to capture the large paint chips? This method would allow plants and grasses to breath while paint chips are contained. You just simply lay them down like drop cloths or plastic, then roll them up afterwards. You can then address the isolated sanding at the source as LC suggested.


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## Woody (Jan 7, 2010)

My concern; would be to "FIX" the yard....wtf

If that was MY job...."It would ,of been fixed 2 hours ago"


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

plainpainter said:


> When I read these threads, it reminds me why I don't get certified - I rather just let the 'storm' blow over. Hopefully there will be changes in the next couple of years that makes approaching this work more sane and less insane. What I don't get is if you come to a house that is pre-78 but doesn't have a lick of lead on it - does it still get treated as a lead job? Does it have to be documented by a lead certified contractor that there is no lead? Or is it assumed to be lead and treated as such even if you know there is nothing, as in a total residing done after '78.


I think there will be changes in approaching the work as CR's learn and become more experienced, but I see the laws getting more stringent as EPA seems to getting more like LSHR.
You can't even do an estimate on a pre 78 unless you are certified (unless the home has been cleared by an Inspector/Assessor). By being Certified, you are able to test and rule out Lead or not test and assume Lead. 



CApainter said:


> Since scraping and chipping paint are separate activities from sanding, why couldn't a mesh tarp, http://www.eagleind.com/site383.php, be used to capture the large paint chips? This method would allow plants and grasses to breath while paint chips are contained. You just simply lay them down like drop cloths or plastic, then roll them up afterwards. You can then address the isolated sanding at the source as LC suggested.


Because like LC's idea, that is just too sensible!


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

maybe put a rock garden there, or mulch over it.

and upsell him on the idea.

turn this into a positive cash flow.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

high fibre said:


> maybe put a rock garden there, or mulch over it.
> 
> and upsell him on the idea.
> 
> turn this into a positive cash flow.


Sounds like a side landscaping business is blooming.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Benjamin Moore "Chrome Green" and a sprayer? :jester:


LOL You beat me to it. I was going to make the same suggestion.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Last week I was replacing a storm door for a customer and remove the old one and left it laying on the grass for no more than an hour and it cooked the grass under it. It left a perfect rectangle of dead grass.  

I apologized but the HO was not happy.


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## BC_Painter (Feb 14, 2010)

straight_lines said:


> Last week I was replacing a storm door for a customer and remove the old one and left it laying on the grass for no more than an hour and it cooked the grass under it. It left a perfect rectangle of dead grass.
> 
> I apologized but the HO was not happy.



I was lucky enough to only SLIGHTLY yellow the grass under a storm or two, never again :whistling2:


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

I really don't get why a HO would get ticked about this. The house is being constructed. Thing like this happen due to the process of construction. It's grass and it will grow back. Probably in a week or so.


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## BC_Painter (Feb 14, 2010)

ewingpainting.net said:


> I really don't get why a HO would get ticked about this. The house is being constructed. Thing like this happen due to the process of construction. It's grass and it will grow back. Probably in a week or so.



I had a little kiddy pool up for my girls for 2 days, moved it and guess what, grass was yellowed.

Now a week later you can barely tell it was there


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## Quaid? (Mar 13, 2009)

high fibre said:


> maybe put a rock garden there, or mulch over it.
> 
> and upsell him on the idea.
> 
> turn this into a positive cash flow.


i think he would say "wow, that would be a great idea for you to do for free, fixing your mistake"


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Quaid? said:


> i think he would say "wow, that would be a great idea for you to do for free, fixing your mistake"


 I would start adding it to the contract and explain why damage could occur.


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> I would start adding it to the contract and explain why damage could occur.


bingo!


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## CarpetRepairGuy (Jul 5, 2010)

*Not dead*

I'm sure the grass isn't dead all the way to the roots. It's going to come back strong. It probably looks better already.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

ok, only solution for pre 78s- reside the house, done deal.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

why not just put drops down first, then lay your plastic?

Pat


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## edtrujillo (Jul 12, 2008)

Quaid? said:


> so, we started a lead job last week. I have trained my guy and I had to leave for the the afternoon, so he set up exterior and plasticed everthing off to start scraping 3 dormirs. the HO has a nice green lawn, right on the side of the house that faced the road. My job site sign is right there, with my new "Lead RRP certified contractor" added to it. I leave for two hours, and tell my guy that we need to be looking legit cuz we're right on the road, but try to cut big slits in the plastic, and only use the minimum amount of it. I come back and hour and a half later, lift up the plastic, and all the grass under it is completely dead and yellow. So now when people drive by and see my sign, theres a 20 ft dead patch of grass behind it. Im so pissed off. I know that there are 'ways around this', but not many practical ones. So just so you know, it dont take long to kill the grass. thanks so much elected officials:thumbsup:


Oh bummer, well you better pull your sign off the job.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

edtrujillo said:


> Oh bummer, well you better pull your sign off the job.


“When the solution is simple, God is answering.” Albert Einstein


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

In a situation like this.. it is always important to ask yourself.. WWMD?! Crossdressing and spelling your name in their lawn with lighter fluid must only be used as a last resort.. or you could just paint the dead lawn with what RCP posted.. sounds like a better alternative.. oh and not only telling the customer, but also writing it into the contract. :thumbsup: 

Go get em tiger!


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

PatsPainting said:


> why not just put drops down first, then lay your plastic?
> 
> Pat


 Good question:thumbsup:


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

PatsPainting said:


> why not just put drops down first, then lay your plastic?
> 
> Pat


this sounds like an accident waiting to happen.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Why not just paint in the middle of the night? No sun, no dead grass. No sun and heat, less chance for lap marks, less expense on extender.


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> Why not just paint in the middle of the night? No sun, no dead grass. No sun and heat, less chance for lap marks, less expense on extender.


most rrp jobs are done under the cover of darkness.


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## Roamer (Jul 5, 2010)

PatsPainting said:


> why not just put drops down first, then lay your plastic?
> 
> Pat


The regs prohibit the use of re-usable drop cloths. Some industrious painter needs to invent a cheap breathable throw-a-way drop to be used instead of plastic.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

Roamer said:


> The regs prohibit the use of re-usable drop cloths. Some industrious painter needs to invent a cheap breathable throw-a-way drop to be used instead of plastic.


I thought that was for using drops to catch your dust with out plastic. I would think it would be ok to lay out some drops outside, then do your plastic. If done right the drops would never see one ounce of dust. 

Pat


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

PatsPainting said:


> I thought that was for using drops to catch your dust with out plastic. I would think it would be ok to lay out some drops outside, then do your plastic. If done right the drops would never see one ounce of dust.
> 
> Pat


yeah but that sounds practical, a word that doesn't exist in the govt. lexicon.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

plainpainter said:


> When I read these threads, it reminds me why I don't get certified - I rather just let the 'storm' blow over. Hopefully there will be changes in the next couple of years that makes approaching this work more sane and less insane. What I don't get is if you come to a house that is pre-78 but doesn't have a lick of lead on it - does it still get treated as a lead job? Does it have to be documented by a lead certified contractor that there is no lead? Or is it assumed to be lead and treated as such even if you know there is nothing, as in a total residing done after '78.


How do you know if you are not certified for testing?


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

I have found that putting cloth drops under the plastic will save the plants and grass but I ALWAY's tell the customer there is a good chance for damage and that we cannot be held responsible.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

TJ Paint said:


> ok, only solution for pre 78s- reside the house, done deal.


Attaching the siding would be disturbing the surface!!!


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## Quaid? (Mar 13, 2009)

PatsPainting said:


> I thought that was for using drops to catch your dust with out plastic. I would think it would be ok to lay out some drops outside, then do your plastic. If done right the drops would never see one ounce of dust.
> 
> Pat


well, its illegal to put the canvas down because it 'may have lead dust in it' so you would be contaminating the lawn if you used it. if you used new ones you 'may contaminate them', so its just not allowed. I really want to follow the laws here, im hoping that one day it will pay off when all the others start getting fined and go out of business, but it sure is hard.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

Quaid? said:


> well, its illegal to put the canvas down because it 'may have lead dust in it' so you would be contaminating the lawn if you used it. if you used new ones you 'may contaminate them', so its just not allowed. I really want to follow the laws here, im hoping that one day it will pay off when all the others start getting fined and go out of business, but it sure is hard.


Not true..drops first,then plastic on top (exterior)


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Just say no


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> Just say no


That is an option!

I think you could use drops under plastic, I would not use them on any non RRP job though.

This is more for interior.

In this answer, it talks about minimum requirements, I believe this is where common sense and the spirit of the rule would come into play.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

Roamer said:


> The regs prohibit the use of re-usable drop cloths. Some industrious painter needs to invent a cheap breathable throw-a-way drop to be used instead of plastic.


Hi, Roamer, welcome to the forum! Do you have a link to support that?
I do believe the rule says non permeable, which may apply, hmm, off to check!


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

This from the Register
"(F) Covering the floor surface, including installed carpet, with taped-down plastic sheeting or other impermeable material in the work area 6 feet beyond the perimeter of surfaces undergoing renovation or a sufficient distance to contain the dust, whichever is greater (interiors) or covering the ground with plastic sheeting or other disposable impermeable material anchored to the building extending 10 feet beyond the perimeter of surfaces undergoing renovation or a sufficient distance to collect falling paint debris, whichever is greater, unless the property line prevents 10 feet of such ground covering, weighted down by heavy objects (exteriors)."

So it seems to reason, as long as you are taking the required steps to contain, what is underneath the plastic should not matter? What do you think?


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

PatsPainting said:


> If done right the drops would never see one ounce of dust.
> 
> Pat


I don't doubt you are right.

But it still wouldn't completely solve the problem. There are still a lot of plants that cant withstand being crushed by drops. Also once the light goes through the plastic, it still converts into heat. I suppose lot of light would get reflected back out off of a white drop, so that would help. But still the plants can not transpire.

This closes the stomata and is not healthy for plants. (correction, that happens when it gets to dry or cold)

I do think your idea would reduce the heat and humidity damage some, but not entirely.

Also sometimes one side of a house might take 2 or 3 days depending on the condition. That is still a long time for plants to be getting covered and crushed by drops topped with plastic.


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## edtrujillo (Jul 12, 2008)

Man,
I feel like I'm in high school all over again. I've been painting lead filled structures exclusively for over 25 years and I have always used blue plastic tarps. They are breathable (so they will not kill the grass) but will not allow sanding dust to penetrate.
You will need to wash the tarps after each job and use care in where the water run off is going.
I presented this option to the class when I received my Lead paint government mandated Obama bullcrap certificate and the instructor said it sounded like a good way to prevent the killing of vegetation.
Do you believe that? sounds like a good way? these government folks are looking for $DOLLARS$ not a green & clean earth.
RESIST THE BULL


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

Last Craftsman said:


> I don't doubt you are right.
> 
> But it still wouldn't completely solve the problem. There are still a lot of plants that cant withstand being crushed by drops. Also once the light goes through the plastic, it still converts into heat. I suppose lot of light would get reflected back out off of a white drop, so that would help. But still the plants can not transpire.
> 
> ...


You cannot leave everything covered up.You must police the area at the end of each day and clean up.What are you going to do if some kid comes along to play in your lead paint & plastic when your guys are finished for the day??? Clean up every day!!!


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## Woody (Jan 7, 2010)

You can send all your lead chips to me..... My teenagers put the last little bit on there cereal, this morning, and there friends "love the taste" also.
I'm willing to pay all shipping, and all labor expense to get lead chips... OR maybe, a trade ; fresh deer meat this next season ? or some of last years freezer burned meat ?

just askin....


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## clammer (Feb 13, 2009)

We have been using black 6ml plastic on exterior projects seems to have less grass kill than the clear and is about the same price.


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## capitalcity painting (Apr 28, 2008)

edtrujillo said:


> Man,
> I feel like I'm in high school all over again. I've been painting lead filled structures exclusively for over 25 years and I have always used blue plastic tarps. They are breathable (so they will not kill the grass) but will not allow sanding dust to penetrate.
> You will need to wash the tarps after each job and use care in where the water run off is going.
> I presented this option to the class when I received my Lead paint government mandated Obama bullcrap certificate and the instructor said it sounded like a good way to prevent the killing of vegetation.
> ...


You can not wash the tarps you have to throw them away. I wonder if the EPA consulted any painting contractors before making these laws. I looked at a house that had a metal roof that was painted with lead paint 7 years ago. Yes 7 years ago guy had a special license said it would last forever and it peeled in 2 years. Anyway it is 40 feet up and landscaping and trees everywhere. There is NO possible way to do this thing right without looking like a damn circus. I think they need to allow the opt out provisions to stay in effect so that we can do these jobs as long as no one under 6 resides or visits regularly and we wont have to worry about it. If that is who it is really effecting why not keep the opt out.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

capitalcity painting said:


> You can not wash the tarps you have to throw them away. I wonder if the EPA consulted any painting contractors before making these laws. I looked at a house that had a metal roof that was painted with lead paint 7 years ago. Yes 7 years ago guy had a special license said it would last forever and it peeled in 2 years. Anyway it is 40 feet up and landscaping and trees everywhere. There is NO possible way to do this thing right without looking like a damn circus. I think they need to allow the opt out provisions to stay in effect so that we can do these jobs as long as no one under 6 resides or visits regularly and we wont have to worry about it. If that is who it is really effecting why not keep the opt out.


 
Good luck with that!


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

capitalcity painting said:


> You can not wash the tarps you have to throw them away. I wonder if the EPA consulted any painting contractors before making these laws. I looked at a house that had a metal roof that was painted with lead paint 7 years ago. Yes 7 years ago guy had a special license said it would last forever and it peeled in 2 years. Anyway it is 40 feet up and landscaping and trees everywhere. There is NO possible way to do this thing right without looking like a damn circus. I think they need to allow the opt out provisions to stay in effect so that we can do these jobs as long as no one under 6 resides or visits regularly and we wont have to worry about it. If that is who it is really effecting why not keep the opt out.


I would like to see that "Special License" WTF???????


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

big business has succeeded.

they have passed this onto sorry azzed houepainters 

big business marketed, manufactured, and sold this stuff.

now it falls directly on the shoulders of poor azzed small time house painters to clean up THEIR mess,,,,,,,,or loose everything.

thats your big business and politicians at work.


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

aaron61 said:


> You cannot leave everything covered up.You must police the area at the end of each day and clean up.What are you going to do if some kid comes along to play in your lead paint & plastic when your guys are finished for the day??? Clean up every day!!!


Triple question marks and triple exclamation marks.

I guess that's what they call a "triple double"

I am not disagreeing with your logic regarding potential hazard for kids. But I have yet to do an RRP job, and we are avoiding them for the time being.

Is that removing the plastic every day in the regulations?

Because I thought that was the purpose of notification and the signs etc.

I assumed once you got everything tented off, or dropped off it would stay until that side of the house was completed.

Two scenarios: tenting off completely with vertical containment, and the supposed "just lay out plastic 10 feet or as far as is necessary to catch the lead or, whichever is greater" (whichever is greater).

First the tenting. Surely you don't mean in this scenario. Surely people are not supposed to set up scaffolding, and drop down vertical containment, and plastic off everything inside the containment area, then BREAK that all down at the end of day.

God, PLEASE tell me this is not what is expected in the regulations. That would be completely absurd. I thought the ENTIRE PURPOSE notification and hang up the signs etc. is to keep people OUT of there?

Second scenario:

Just laying plastic out all over the nice flat featureless Kansas prairie land that we are all blessed with like the image in the RRP manual shows.

I don't doubt this would be a hazard if left in place, I actually had not thought about that. *My jobsites are always clean at the end of the day*. But I guess I assumed with RRP work, that once all that time was invested in plasticing off the bushes, tress, decks, grass etc, that it would need to stay until that side of the house was prepped. Because otherwise that would mean using NEW plastic each day. Also it would mean disturbing the plastic multiple times which I thought would be more of a hazard.

Is that correct? I mean just "cleaning" the plastic and using it again the next day would deposit debris and dust everywhere the next time it was used by RRP standards?

I mean by RRP standards, and expectations, I don't mean to say that I personally think to re-use plastic in a way that left minimal debris everywhere would be a problem.

Did you mean re-use the plastic? Or use new plastic each day?

Either way that would mean disturbing all that plastic multiple times which is a lot of opportunity for it to get in the air.

I could understand plastic just layed out like a drop on flat grass. You just go around vacuum up all the material, maybe even give it a damp wipe of some kind, then carefully fold up plastic corner to corner, keeping track which side is "up", then carefully lay it out again the next day.

But when there are trees, and bushes, and stair cases, and decks and stuff that is quite a procedure to be doing and undoing everyday. Even cleaning all of those different size and shape objects with plastic wrapped around them and wrinkles and stuff would be difficult to get everything. Especially if it starts sprinkling or raining while you are prepping. Then the dust would be stuck to the plastic.

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And I just thought another thing. Lets say you plastic off flat grass. And you are scraping and working on the side of a house catching the chips and debris...

Then at the end of the day, you vacuum up all the plastic then fold it up. What about the side of the house?

That is going to had debris and dust all over it. Does it need to be rinsed down each day? And if so, does one need to set up the water recapture system each day to catch the rinse water?

I would be interested if anyone has addressed or knows the answer to some of the points I have made in this post.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

Last Craftsman said:


> Triple question marks and triple exclamation marks.
> 
> I guess that's what they call a "triple double"
> 
> ...


I have to write something here in order to post


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

aaron61;146985What about the side of the house? [SIZE=4 said:


> Don't give them any more ideas![/SIZE]


:lol:

:notworthy:

Lol. That's a good point. I hadn't thought of that.

I probably am giving them more ideas. That's not good. But there are just so many open ended variables that don't make sense. Those types of unanswered questions are why we are avoiding the work for now.

It's a brand new, wide open field, which I consider to be have way to much room for interpretation at this point. With the inspectors looking for problems, the homeowners looking for problems, and nosy neighbors looking for problems. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if every neighborhood has at least one busy body with the EPA on speed-dial, and every time they walk or drive past a house where work is being done, they are eagle-eyeing it, looking for evil toxic polluters of paint chips. 

My personal feeling is after a year or two, most of the question marks and variables will have come up and been addressed, and hopefully the regulations will be clarified to address this, and it will be easier to approach doing RRP jobs without fear of the unknown. ( and fear of one or more 37,500 fines!

)


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## RGordon (Mar 22, 2010)

Time to get into the Astro Turf business....


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## edtrujillo (Jul 12, 2008)

RGordon said:


> Time to get into the Astro Turf business....


Time to tell the Obama EPA to take a flying leap.


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## Woody (Jan 7, 2010)

edtrujillo said:


> Time to tell the Obama EPA to take a flying leap.


Time to close...the borders


Stay Frosty...e'say


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