# Do You Remove Door Knobs When Painting?



## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

Let me hear your feedback. 

Also, how many years you have been painting as well?


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Yes, 40.


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## IL_Painter (Dec 4, 2010)

yes I remove them. Even if they have old paint on them. It really makes me mad when I walk on a job and see one of my guys wrap them in blue tape and cut around them. I have been painting 22 years.


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## kmp (Jan 30, 2011)

No and 28


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Almost always. I generally prefer the uniform coating texture that's made possible by removing the knob rather than cutting around it. My formal apprenticeship started 22 years ago. Worked summers and weekends before that.


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## billy the kid (Jan 22, 2011)

Yes.. 10 years


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## Repaintpro (Oct 2, 2012)

Yes I remove handles, except if it's a fire door. They can contain asbestos. 

20 years


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

PaintersUnite said:


> Let me hear your feedback.
> 
> Also, how many years you have been painting as well?


Yes, I'll remove anything that my add anything undesirable to the finish. 11 years.

I was actually surprised to see you didn't do that in your marquee pic.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Yes

But after about 20 years, I stopped painting not well and stuck to paper hanging just as well.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Yes, 21


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## Paint Chip (Dec 25, 2013)

Yes I remove them. 16 years


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Yes. 

Started 43 years ago.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

PaintersUnite said:


> Let me hear your feedback.
> 
> Also, how many years you have been painting as well?


...
.


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## capepainter (Mar 9, 2012)

Yes and 21


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## Carl (Jun 18, 2011)

It depends on the situation. Obviously if the last hack has painted the door without removing the knob, you probably can't make it look any worse if you don't remove the knob as well. In this case, it would be a matter of production and mood. If I feel like removing the knob I may do it. If I'm in the mood to cut around it, I may leave the knob attached while I paint the door. It's important to mix things up as a painter if you can because doing this job for 40 plus years can get pretty stale if you don't. In all cases, if I think that the end result would look bad if I don't remove the knob, then I will remove it. If the doors are textured, I will leave the knob on or take them off. If the doors are those smooth masonite doors that we see a lot of, taking off the knob is the only way to go. I have only been painting for a few weeks professionally but I painted my moms house a bunch of times over the years.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Textured doors no, smooth yes. 15 yrs.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

yes( 95%) of the time, 22 years


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

Yes, always removed. 3 years.


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## whodog94 (Aug 10, 2012)

I usually just loosen them up and about 2 full time


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

No offense Joe, but there's nothing about cutting around door knobs that says skilled, quality craftsmanship. I can see it as a way to increase efficiency on tight budget work, but that's about it. We remove, 20+ yrs.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> No offense Joe, but there's nothing about cutting around door knobs that says skilled, quality craftsmanship. I can see it as a way to increase efficiency on tight budget work, but that's about it. We remove, 20+ yrs.


*My contract States: *
Hardware to be removed and re-installed. Includes curtain rods, window latches, switch plates and cover plates. *Door knobs*, thermostats, alarm system hardware *will not be removed*. "I also don't remove and reinstall light fixtures". 

I've got 34 years painting under my belt. If a HO wants to remove and reinstall *Door knobs *themselves, that is up to them. If the door knobs are in place during the course of work, I have no problem skilfully painting around them and ultimately satisfying the customer. In my 34 years in the industry, I have never had a complaint.

To me, it presents more of a hassle and/or problem to remove and reinstall door knobs than it's worth. I have a list of reasons why I don't remove them to include: losing parts, breaking inner parts, having difficulty reinstalling, scratching the fresh paint while reinstalling, etc.

I paint the door, I walk away, I'm done.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Carl said:


> ... It's important to mix things up as a painter if you can because doing this job for 40 plus years can get pretty stale if you don't... .










Man, you are right about that. I get so bored with the same techniques over and over that I just have to try something different. 

On job a few years ago I was spraying a couple coats of varnish on some existing stained doors. I really didn't feel like taking knobs off, and it didn't seem totally necessary anyway. Didn't take the doors off either. After masking all the knobs and hinges and spraying it out, the customer decides to change all the door hardware. :wallbash:


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Wow Joe, you obviously have all the answers which I guess makes you the consummate painter. How's your forum coming along? Asked you in another thread but never saw an answer.

Just wondering.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

PaintersUnite said:


> *My contract States: *
> 
> 
> To me, it presents more of a hassle and/or problem to remove and reinstall door knobs ......






That can certainly be the case. We have had crazy problems with entrance door knob assemblies lately. On one job we needed a lock smith to straighten out an old discontinued Baldwin. On the very next job the locking mechanism of a Schlage fell apart in my hands. Luckily I could get a replacement easily. 

As much of a PITA as it is, I just can't see trying to put a real nice finish on an entrance door without taking off the hardware. Would be in the way too much, make it harder to spread the film evenly. Not as much of an issue on those textured hollow cores. 

I'm not disputing that a top notch paint job can be done with the knobs on. Brush marks are just a pet peeve of mine, like to avoid them when possible.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

PaintersUnite said:


> My contract States: Hardware to be removed and re-installed. Includes curtain rods, window latches, switch plates and cover plates. Door knobs, thermostats, alarm system hardware will not be removed. "I also don't remove and reinstall light fixtures". I've got 34 years painting under my belt. If a HO wants to remove and reinstall Door knobs themselves, that is up to them. If the door knobs are in place during the course of work, I have no problem skilfully painting around them and ultimately satisfying the customer. In my 34 years in the industry, I have never had a complaint. To me, it presents more of a hassle and/or problem to remove and reinstall door knobs than it's worth. I have a list of reasons why I don't remove them to include: losing parts, breaking inner parts, having difficulty reinstalling, scratching the fresh paint while reinstalling, etc. I paint the door, I walk away, I'm done.


Then we both agree that careful removal and re-installation takes more time/skill, and thus should command a higher price. I don't mind working that difference in my bids.


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

Doorknobs removed, and stored INSIDE the room they belong to, just in case you shut it while painting it. Nothing worse than having to make THAT phone call: umm...can you come open the door, I'm stuck in the room...

2 years


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

driftweed said:


> Doorknobs removed, and stored INSIDE the room they belong to, just in case you shut it while painting it. Nothing worse than having to make THAT phone call: umm...can you come open the door, I'm stuck in the room...
> 
> 2 years


That happens all the time - I just use the screw driver on my Leatherman and turn the inner mechanism to unlatch the door. Now having a HO lock themselves in when I'm not around is another matter.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

driftweed said:


> Doorknobs removed, and stored INSIDE the room they belong to, just in case you shut it while painting it. Nothing worse than having to make THAT phone call: umm...can you come open the door, I'm stuck in the room...
> 
> 2 years


That's when it's real handy to have a screw driver in your pocket :whistling2:


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

PaintersUnite said:


> *My contract States: *
> Hardware to be removed and re-installed. Includes curtain rods, window latches, switch plates and cover plates. *Door knobs*, thermostats, alarm system hardware *will not be removed*. "I also don't remove and reinstall light fixtures".
> 
> I've got 34 years painting under my belt. If a HO wants to remove and reinstall *Door knobs *themselves, that is up to them. If the door knobs are in place during the course of work, I have no problem skilfully painting around them and ultimately satisfying the customer. In my 34 years in the industry, I have never had a complaint.
> ...


Ok, I think I see the problem here.

You're one of the greatest painters in the world but when it comes to removing, storing and reinstalling doorknobs you're pretty clueless.

That about it?


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## oldccm (Jan 23, 2013)

I prefer to remove them. Also always double check to make sure the key still works..... Had a HO call once because his key 'didn't' work. Turns out key still worked but homeowner felt the lock didn't rotate as easily as it used too. 
15 years


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Jmayspaint said:


> That's when it's real handy to have a screw driver in your pocket :whistling2:


Agree if not you could be screwed!:whistling2:


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

oldccm said:


> I prefer to remove them. Also always double check to make sure the key still works..... Had a HO call once because his key 'didn't' work. Turns out key still worked but homeowner felt the lock didn't rotate as easily as it used too.
> 15 years


Mar-key.


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## Exactoman (Mar 28, 2013)

Jmayspaint said:


> Man, you are right about that. I get so bored with the same techniques over and over that I just have to try something different.
> 
> On job a few years ago I was spraying a couple coats of varnish on some existing stained doors. I really didn't feel like taking knobs off, and it didn't seem totally necessary anyway. Didn't take the doors off either. After masking all the knobs and hinges and spraying it out, the customer decides to change all the door hardware. :wallbash:



This just happened to me!!!


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## Paintuh4Life (May 20, 2009)

Yes. 37 years


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## Painter-Aaron (Jan 17, 2013)

Yes 90% of the time 6 years


Sent from my iPhone using PaintTalk.com


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

RH said:


> That happens all the time - I just use the screw driver on my Leatherman and turn the inner mechanism to unlatch the door. Now having a HO lock themselves in when I'm not around is another matter.


We use a drill to remove everything. So, no bueno on that one. I did find out you CANNOT credit card your way out of a room:whistling2: I got stuck in a room one time and my helper bagged on me on the other side for a full ten minutes before opening the door. :jester::notworthy:

Always funny to hear a door close and then someone yell for help, haha


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

No. But then again, I don't dwell in the Kingdom of the 10%. And I've been painting for almost forty years now. So I really don't care if someone removes, or paints around a door knob.


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

I do whatever is best for the door and situation. 21 years.


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

I started in '82. I can do a better job if I take them off, but some of them are like working a Rubik's Cube. If I can't figure out how to take them off in 3 minutes I just figure out how to paint around them.......


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## TorresPainting1 (Oct 13, 2014)

Yes just did an older home with 16 doors each door know had 9 small flat head screws. 16 years experience 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using PaintTalk.com mobile app


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

driftweed said:


> We use a drill to remove everything. So, no bueno on that one. I did find out you CANNOT credit card your way out of a room:whistling2: I got stuck in a room one time and my helper bagged on me on the other side for a full ten minutes before opening the door. :jester::notworthy:
> 
> Always funny to hear a door close and then someone yell for help, haha


RE: the "What Have You Learned" thread......Always keep your phone in your pocket.


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## bloodnut (Nov 11, 2009)

Yes & 28 yrs


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Thus far we have 19 votes "yes" with a cumulative experience of 376 years.

3 votes "no" with cumulative experience of 102 years.

Just figured someone needed to be keeping up with this invaluable data.

I abstained from voting.:yes:


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

bloodnut said:


> Yes & 28 yrs


Damn, now I have to refigger. 

20 Yes, 404 YTD

3 No, 102 YTD


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

Expanding on slinger's data, the yes' have 20.2 years of experience and the no's have 34 years of experience. 

So that leaves us with 2 logical conclusions:

On average-

1. Somewhere in that 13.8 year window painters stop caring as much.

2. Somewhere in that 13.8 year window painters realize that cutting in or masking is faster than removal.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Hines Painting said:


> Expanding on slinger's data, the yes' have 20.2 years of experience and the no's have 34 years of experience.
> 
> So that leaves us with 2 logical conclusions:
> 
> ...


Or, 3. Somewhere in that 13.8 year window they damaged one of those high dollar Baldwyn locksets and had to pay to replace it.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

AND.... the No data is skewed by CA's 40 years while he admits he really doesn't care about peoples' doorknobs.

AND...by PU's 34 years No vote cuz he seems prone to blowing smoke.


I know I'm poking the behr, I'm bored.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

slinger58 said:


> Ok, I think I see the problem here.
> 
> You're one of the *greatest painters in the world* but when it comes to removing, storing and reinstalling doorknobs you're pretty clueless.
> 
> That about it?


Thank you for noticing me. Do I have criteria for paint Pro of the month? 

*If it makes you feel good and tickles your fancy to assume* that, :thumbsup: NO... :thumbup:

Slinger58 writes: "reinstalling doorknobs *you're pretty clueless*" 
Hey slinger58, we have respect rules on PT. Please read before posting.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Hines Painting said:


> Expanding on slinger's data, the yes' have 20.2 years of experience and the no's have 34 years of experience.
> 
> So that leaves us with 2 logical conclusions:
> 
> ...


Figures don't lie, but liars will figure. - my Gramps


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

For me, I'll mask em if I spray, (unless it's intricate), but I prefer removing when brush & rolling. When I do remove em, I'll put both halves back together, label it, then bag it. Probably a waste of time for some, put I'm too damn dumb to try and figure out which halves go with which if they're just tossed in a 5'er. 

Been painting 26 human years. 182 dog years. 


Stelzer Painting Inc.


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## Toolnut (Nov 23, 2012)

Yes 35


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

I hate it when I lose track of how the door knobs were installed and re-install them backwards or upside down  :blink:


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

slinger58 said:


> Or, 3. Somewhere in that 13.8 year window they damaged one of those high dollar Baldwyn locksets and had to pay to replace it.


Things I learned: when it's a Baldwin, take notes and/or pictures when we take it apart. 

That's the only brand where we figure in some extra time for dealing with the locks. Probably 98 % of the locks we deal with are Schlage, Weiser, or Kwikset. Of those, only the commercial Schlage requires a special tool to make removal easy, so we have those in the tool bags.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Yep, 11 yrs.

Unless it's some seriously complicated lockset or some antique thing I'm likely to wreck by taking it apart.

Thus, 99% of the time yes.

When I started working on my own and one of my first customers saw me taking the hardware off and said "Oh, I'm glad you're doing that I knew there was a reason I hired you" I took that to heart. Sadly her and her husband turned out to be one my worst and cheapest customers who I no longer work for.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

PaintersUnite said:


> Slinger58 writes: "reinstalling doorknobs *you're pretty clueless*"
> Hey slinger58, we have respect rules on PT. Please read before posting.


You're not gonna tell on me, are you?


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Addendum: some of the Medeco high-security looks are such a royal PITA to remove/re-install that we've actually left them in place. I had suppressed the memory of doing that because it made us all feel like hacks


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Out of curiosity, how did my mixed answer fit into the super complicated mathematical equation?


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Out of curiosity, how did my mixed answer fit into the super complicated mathematical equation?


Only those with a definite Yes or No were used. All the waffler answers were disregarded. 

Sorry for any inconvenience or hurt feelings this may have caused.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Out of curiosity, how did my mixed answer fit into the super complicated mathematical equation?


R, like so many of your comments, I think he disregarded it as an outlier.:jester:


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Gough said:


> R, like so many of your comments, I think he disregarded it as an outlier.:jester:


Lol I was about to write the same thing. 

You no knobers are a bunch of feeling hurters.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

slinger58 said:


> Damn, now I have to refigger.
> 
> 20 Yes, 404 YTD
> 
> 3 No, 102 YTD


Slinger, with N=3, the number is too small to draw statistical inferences about that population. With so few respondents in that category, the Central Limit Theorem doesn't really apply. Maybe a Chi-square test would be more appropriate.


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

I slop the paint, and then clean 'em off with a razor blade.

*having my own category*


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Gough said:


> Slinger, with N=3, the number is too small to draw statistical inferences about that population. With so few respondents in that category, the Central Limit Theorem doesn't really apply. Maybe a Chi-square test would be more appropriate.


I don't think any of the respondents are Chinese. :no:


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

slinger58 said:


> Only those with a definite Yes or No were used. All the waffler answers were disregarded.
> 
> Sorry for any inconvenience or hurt feelings this may have caused.


Not sure if my 1% off the yes mark was considered a waffle, but I'm 100% sure waffles with peanut butter and maple syrup are always a good time.

"no knobbers". Love it.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Steve Richards said:


> I slop the paint, and then clean 'em off with a razor blade.
> 
> *having my own category*


Well, if ya'll are gonna want your own categories and take ethnic origins into consideration and get hurt feelings and sh!t, you're gonna have to find a new 
figgerer. 

I quit.


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

Don't quit, Slinger. I thought you were doin' a fine job.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Not sure if my 1% off the yes mark was considered a waffle, but I'm 100% sure waffles with peanut butter and maple syrup are always a good time.
> 
> "no knobbers". Love it.


If nothing else, thanks for the breakfast idea....


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Never knew so many painters gave great knob jobs. :whistling2:


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Steve Richards said:


> I slop the paint, and then clean 'em off with a razor blade.
> 
> *having my own category*


Steve, I think it's pretty clear that you're in your own category.

It's a little unusual, but I think they broke the mold *before* they made you.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Steve Richards said:


> Don't quit, Slinger. I thought you were doin' a fine job.


It's a _thankless_ endeavor (if you get my drift).

Gonna check out now and run up to the Waffle House for a late breakfast.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

slinger58 said:


> It's a _thankless_ endeavor (if you get my drift).
> 
> Gonna check out now and run up to the Waffle House for a late breakfast.


You're killing me. Get some scattered, smothered, diced, and "country" for me, will ya?


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Gough said:


> You're killing me. Get some scattered, smothered, diced, and "country" for me, will ya?


Must have bacon with maple syrup. Tho. Who knew this thread was going to take this scrumptious turn and fabulous derailment from the knob or no knob hurt feelings direction it was going in.


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

A little under 40 years painting, and a little over 20 years as a hack. You can put me in the "yes I remove door knobs" category. 

But not 100% of the time. Like pretty much everything else, it depends (not the diaper) on the door, where it is, and who the customer is.

The young guys that are leaving them on now, may someday start taking them off, and somewhere down the road may start leaving them on again.

Same with taping trim, cutting windows, and belt sanding drywall. Change is a good, because it keeps it (at least a little bit) interesting

I think the most important thing about painting, is to not let yourself grow to hate it.


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## Delta Painting (Apr 27, 2010)

Um I am a pro so yes... 31years


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Must have bacon with maple syrup. Tho. Who knew this thread was going to take this scrumptious turn and fabulous derailment from the knob or no knob hurt feelings direction it was going in.


I want the record to reflect that I had nothing to do with the food derailment of this thread.

Now let's get back to hurting people's feelings shall we?


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

RH said:


> I want the record to reflect that I had nothing to do with the food derailment of this thread.
> 
> Now let's get back to hurting people's feelings shall we?


In the interests of keeping the system simple, we could just choose one person and make fun of their 'avec ous sans' knob preference? Size of said knob?

God, I must be bored this morning.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Lol I was about to write the same thing. You no knobers are a bunch of feeling hurters.


 I'm confused, are no knobers, knob removers or knob cutters?


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Wildbill7145 said:


> In the interests of keeping the system simple, we could just choose one person and make fun of their 'avec ous sans' knob preference? Size of said knob?
> 
> God, I must be bored this morning.


Maybe we should start a book review thread.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Wildbill7145 said:


> In the interests of keeping the system simple, we could just choose one person and make fun of their 'avec ous sans' knob preference? Size of said knob?
> 
> God, I must be bored this morning.


I'm just waiting for it to break 20 F before I go out to rake leaves....


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> I'm confused, are no knobers, knob removers or knob cutters?


No knobers are knob cutters, yes knobers are knob removers. :blink:


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

Steve Richards said:


> Same with taping trim, cutting windows, and belt sanding drywall.


Now there's a whole new thread. Sanding drywall with a belt sander, yeah I do that exclusively.


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

ridesarize said:


> Now there's a whole new thread. Sanding drywall with a belt sander, yeah I do that exclusively.


Gough told me to.

I tried to reason with him..but you know Gough.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Steve Richards said:


> Gough told me to.
> 
> I tried to reason with him..but you know Gough.



Yeah, I used to think Gough was blowing smoke.

Then I found out he knew what a "jug-hustler" was even though he'd never been a "doodle-bugger".

I fell in line then.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Next question: who polishes their knobs after a job well done?


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> Next question: who polishes their knobs after a job well done?


Here we go down that slippery slope. Remember Ryan, you started this.:yes:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

knob polishing is not my department, I leave that to the maid service.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

slinger58 said:


> No knobers are knob cutters, yes knobers are knob removers. :blink:


Are you sure? Seems to me that "no knobers" shouldn't be knob cutters but instead should be knob removers (hence no knobs) and "knobers" shouldn't be no knobs but those who prefers cutting in around their knobs (hence "knobers" because the knobs remain). I think we need a ruling by a respected third party. How bout' it Richmond?


Ryan brings up an important question - what _about_ "knob polishers"? Does anyone like to polish their knobs or do you prefer to leave that to the HOs? Now *that's* a derailment worth pursuing.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

and now that we're all stirred up . . . 

who removes the motion detectors ?

99% of the rooms I work in, the painting crew has NOT removed them prior to painting.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

RH said:


> Are you sure? Seems to me that "no knobers" shouldn't be knob cutters but instead should be knob removers (hence no knobs) and "knobers" shouldn't be no knobs but those who prefers cutting in around their knobs (hence "knobers" because the knobs remain). I think we need a ruling by a respected third party. How bout' it Richmond?
> 
> 
> Ryan brings upnan important question - what _about_ "knob polishers"? Does anyone like to polish their knobs or do you prefer to leave that to the HOs? Now *that's* a derailment worth pursuing.


Depends on the HO. :whistling2:


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

daArch said:


> knob polishing is not my department, I leave that to the maid service.


that looks like it would get expensive.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

Jmayspaint said:


> *That can certainly be the case. We have had crazy problems with entrance door knob assemblies lately. On one job we needed a lock smith to straighten out an old discontinued Baldwin. On the very next job the locking mechanism of a Schlage fell apart in my hands. Luckily I could get a replacement easily. *
> 
> As much of a PITA as it is, I just can't see trying to put a real nice finish on an entrance door without taking off the hardware. Would be in the way too much, make it harder to spread the film evenly. Not as much of an issue on those textured hollow cores.
> 
> I'm not disputing that a top notch paint job can be done with the knobs on. Brush marks are just a pet peeve of mine, like to avoid them when possible.


*Bingo! 

*Paint Pro of The Month, Thanks for your post.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

I'm going to try just rubbing Vaseline on the knobs and hinges. My BIL told me thats how they do it. He has a big apt rehab company and they turn some pretty wicked profits. Gotta make my fortune somehow


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

I feel that rather you remove the knob or not,feel free either way this is not a open or shut case.:whistling2:


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

mudbone said:


> I feel that rather you remove the knob or not,feel free either way this is not a open or shut case.:whistling2:


I expect to see you in the thread, "Steady income from painting elevators?"


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

I don't care if someone has been doing this 10 years or 40 years, what you include in your business model and what works for you may not be another professional's idea of what works for them. Doesn't mean one way is right and the other is wrong.

I've been known to do it either way depending on the job and make/model of the knob. Most always I will at least loosen them to paint behind the plates.

Also known to get paint on my hands, bifocals, key fob, and cell phones......


----------



## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

mudbone said:


> I feel that rather you remove the knob or not,feel free either way this is not a open or shut case.:whistling2:


You guys are masters at subtly adding something to a post so that when I read it I think "there's something else in there....", then I reread it and get it. Love it.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Jmayspaint said:


> I'm going to try just rubbing Vaseline on the knobs and hinges. My BIL told me thats how they do it. He has a big apt rehab company and they turn some pretty wicked profits. Gotta make my fortune somehow


We are still talking about when painting them - right? :001_unsure:


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

So...how about light fixtures: remove, leave in place, loosen?:whistling2:


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Gough said:


> So...how about light fixtures: remove, leave in place, loosen?:whistling2:


:wallbash::wallbash::wallbash:*****


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

RH said:


> :wallbash::wallbash::wallbash:*****


Is it February yet?


----------



## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Gough said:


> So...how about light fixtures: remove, leave in place, loosen?:whistling2:


 Loosen. Always.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

RH said:


> Are you sure? Seems to me that "no knobers" shouldn't be knob cutters but instead should be knob removers (hence no knobs) and "knobers" shouldn't be no knobs but those who prefers cutting in around their knobs (hence "knobers" because the knobs remain). I think we need a ruling by a respected third party. How bout' it Richmond?
> 
> 
> Ryan brings up an important question - what _about_ "knob polishers"? Does anyone like to polish their knobs or do you prefer to leave that to the HOs? Now *that's* a derailment worth pursuing.


Correct, a no knober removes them.

Slinger once taught me the best polishing technique, no one's a better knob polisher than him. :no:

First put a healthy amount of vaseline in a tube sock. Next cover the knob with said sock and put some elbow grease into it, works like a charm. I owe you big time for that tidbit Slinger. :yes:


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Correct, a no knober removes them.
> 
> Slinger once taught me the best polishing technique, no one's a better knob polisher than him. :no:
> 
> First put a healthy amount of vaseline in a tube sock. Next cover the knob with said sock and put some elbow grease into it, works like a charm. I owe you big time for that tidbit Slinger. :yes:


Thanks for your input Ryan, no offense intended but I'm not certain you are respected enough here yet to warrant giving us your opinion on this extremely important matter. I'm still holding out for a response from Richmond. :yes: :whistling2:

As for slinger, perhaps he can make a video on his knob polishing techniques and post it here for all to see?


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Agreed Slinger really should make a video for all to see. I must warn you tho, it's pretty intense. Once he gets warmed up he really goes to town. 

You're right about my lack luster respect level and I'm sorry to intrude upon such a delicate topic. :sad:

What we need now is an article 5 painters convention. All the industry leaders can sit down and come up with a solution for us to peons to obey without question. That's the only way to end the knob problem that has been tearing apart the paint world for far too long. 

I nominate Richmond to preside over the industry titans because he's all about something bigger.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Gough said:


> So...how about light fixtures: remove, leave in place, loosen?:whistling2:


Stop trying to derail, this chit's important. Stay focused people!


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## playedout6 (Apr 27, 2009)

PaintersUnite said:


> Let me hear your feedback.
> 
> Also, how many years you have been painting as well?


NO ! 35 years....However....sometimes in some situations they have to be removed .


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

daArch said:


> and now that we're all stirred up . . .
> 
> who removes the motion detectors ?
> 
> 99% of the rooms I work in, the painting crew has NOT removed them prior to painting.


 
Never remove anything that has do with a home security system.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Agreed Slinger really should make a video for all to see. I must warn you tho, it's pretty intense. Once he gets warmed up he really goes to town.
> 
> You're right about my lack luster respect level and I'm sorry to intrude upon such a delicate topic. :sad:
> 
> ...


I'm glad you were so understanding of my delicate position Ryan. I respect you for that.

*Actually, an emergency meeting has been convened by the Most High Council of the DSBZ (Double Secret Business Zone - 5000 posts required) to debate this issue. A ruling is expected soon. All eyes are on the chimney waiting for the taupe smoke.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Wolfgang said:


> Never remove anything that has do with a home security system.


We inadvertently learned not to mess with them. We noticed several police officers carefully approaching the house and couldn't figure out who they were after....


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Now we're getting into the realm of ridiculous if anyone thinks its a painters job to remove security sensors, devices, or alarms. It's paint for Chrysler sakes! Who gives a crap if you didn't paint behind the alarm control panel. 

With all the talk about mediocre ROI in the painting industry, and the time it takes to paint a house, it's no wonder it's taking everyone so long! Learn how to cut around stuff and move on!

I suppose all the craftsmen here just unplug computer terminals also, instead of painting around the plates. 

"Houston, we have a problem". "Joe Better Then The Rest Painting, just unplugged terminal 25B-Apollo13 oxygen supply control to ISS".


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

CApainter said:


> Now we're getting into the realm of ridiculous if anyone thinks its a painters job to remove security sensors, devices, or alarms. It's paint for Chrysler sakes! Who gives a crap if you didn't paint behind the alarm control panel.
> 
> With all the talk about mediocre ROI in the painting industry, and the time it takes to paint a house, it's no wonder it's taking everyone so long! Learn how to cut around stuff and move on!
> 
> ...


A discussion on PT entering the realm of ridiculousness? Don't be ridiculous. :no:


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

So, is it overkill to tear off the cove base and then liquid nail it back on after painting?


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

TJ Paint said:


> So, is it overkill to tear off the cove base and then liquid nail it back on after painting?


I usually hate painting up to cove base.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

TJ Paint said:


> So, is it overkill to tear off the cove base and then liquid nail it back on after painting?


Are you joking? :jester:


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

TJ Paint said:


> So, is it overkill to tear off the cove base and then liquid nail it back on after painting?


TJ, with the utmost respect, that is a hack move. Use this:


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Gough said:


> TJ, with the utmost respect, that is a hack move. Use this:


Lol good call. I was trying to find ways to salvage my "ROI" after spending extra time with the removal.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

RH said:


> I usually hate painting up to cove base.


It's the pits! Plus its usually on hard flooring too.


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## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

I removed an alarm control panel once at the owners request and when I put it back up it didn't work. I don't think anything I did could have broke it but it didn't work when the wires were put back in. The security firm said I couldn't have caused it just a faulty panel but I sure felt bad you know what one of those things cost? It was a 500 charge for a new panel and install. I offered to pay even took it off the bill but home owner paid in full said it wasn't my fault. I will never remove one again.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

Gough said:


> TJ, with the utmost respect, that is a hack move. Use this:
> 
> View attachment 26734


After pulling this stuff off, there is always drywall damage from the removal. Then there is the back of the cove base, filled with adhesive. How can you get old cove base to lay back down properly? 

Normally if this stuff is removed, only new cove base goes back.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

RH said:


> I usually hate painting up to cove base.



:thumbsup:

The very top is typically rough from the manufacturing process and won't hold tape well. The worst is when there is a drastic color change, meaning that it has to be cut very tight.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Gough said:


> :thumbsup:
> 
> The very top is typically rough from the manufacturing process and won't hold tape well. The worst is when there is a drastic color change, meaning that it has to be cut very tight.


I had a 2 story office building of walls with this stuff. I'm not sure which was worse, the base or the hard unpadded carpet flooring.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

MOST paperhangers remove ALL fixtures: lights, thermostats, motion sensors, towel/tp bars, etc etc etc. Only a few times have I had an issue. One house had computer touch pads that controlled EVERYTHING. HVAC, music, lights, etc. I asked the HO (in the high tech world) if said touch pads coulfd be removed so I could paper up to the box. He said no problem, it's just a few microchips. Well, when I reinstalled it, it remained blank. They called The Guy. The Guy said, "I hope you didn't remove this without shutting the system down", I pointed at the HO and said, "HE told me to, HE said it was OK!"

The Guy said there was a good possibility that ALL the touch pads were blown. Each cost $125 (1992). I shat myself. 

Luckily, he rebooted the system and the pad woke up. 

THOSE I won't disconnect any more. But I will still dismount such hi-tech aparati (leaving the wires connected) and wrap with plastic if needed. 

Thermostats are important to paper behind because they get changed out so often.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Gough said:


> :thumbsup:
> 
> The very top is typically rough from the manufacturing process and won't hold tape well. The worst is when there is a drastic color change, meaning that it has to be cut very tight.


And the installers have smeared adhesive onto the wall which has now dried to a rough mess.


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Never knew so many painters gave great knob jobs. :whistling2:





slinger58 said:


> No knobers are knob cutters, yes knobers are knob removers. :blink:





ExcelPaintingCo said:


> Next question: who polishes their knobs after a job well done?





daArch said:


> knob polishing is not my department, I leave that to the maid service.


Wow! WTF! For a minute there I thought I was on MBR!


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

BTW- I go both ways, knober, no knober, I'm flexible.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Correct, a no knober removes them.
> 
> Slinger once taught me the best polishing technique, no one's a better knob polisher than him. :no:
> 
> First put a healthy amount of vaseline in a tube sock. Next cover the knob with said sock and put some elbow grease into it, works like a charm. I owe you big time for that tidbit Slinger. :yes:


Now I don't know what to think. :no: I leave this place for a few hours to go visit my dear old Mom on a Sunday afternoon and come back to find I've been anointed the KP King of PT. What a crowd, man...what a crowd.

And Ryan, you aren't telling the whole story. See he brought the knob polishing subject up some time back. I told him then he didn't need to be doing that anymore, he had a young and available wife now.

And he explains, "Yeah, but sometimes her poor little arm just gets _so_ tired!"


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

slinger58 said:


> Now I don't know what to think. :no: I leave this place for a few hours to go visit my dear old Mom on a Sunday afternoon and come back to find I've been anointed the KP King of PT. What a crowd, man...what a crowd.
> 
> And Ryan, you aren't telling the whole story. See he brought the knob polishing subject up some time back. I told him then he didn't need to be doing that anymore, he had a young and available wife now.
> 
> And he explains, "Yeah, but sometimes her poor little arm just gets _so_ tired!"


Maybe next time you'll think twice before announcing you're leaving for some delicious Waffle House. :whistling2:

BTW how's that video coming along? :jester:


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Maybe next time you'll think twice before announcing you're leaving for some delicious Waffle House. :whistling2:
> 
> BTW how's that video coming along? :jester:


Lol. You'll have to wait, I'm out of blank cassettes. :yes:


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

slinger58 said:


> Now I don't know what to think. :no: I leave this place for a few hours to go visit my dear old Mom on a Sunday afternoon and come back to find I've been anointed the KP King of PT. What a crowd, man...what a crowd.
> 
> And Ryan, you aren't telling the whole story. See he brought the knob polishing subject up some time back. I told him then he didn't need to be doing that anymore, he had a young and available wife now.
> 
> And he explains, "Yeah, but sometimes her poor little arm just gets _so_ tired!"





Rbriggs82 said:


> Maybe next time you'll think twice before announcing you're leaving for some delicious Waffle House. :whistling2:
> 
> BTW how's that video coming along? :jester:


Don't go playin' the blame game,mister. There's plenty of blame to go around. Y'all are bad,bad I tell ya'! Waffle House,huh? Syrup or no syrup? butter or dry?
:jester:


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

fauxlynn said:


> Don't go playin' the blame game,mister. There's plenty of blame to go around. Y'all are bad,bad I tell ya'! Waffle House,huh? Syrup or no syrup? butter or dry?
> :jester:


Don't ask me how, but I knew you'd be back posting in this thread.:yes:


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

slinger58 said:


> Don't ask me how, but I knew you'd be back posting in this thread.:yes:


You know once I get started........I'm worse on MBR.


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## fanggo (May 16, 2014)

No - 30 plus

If the handles have paint on them already, I clean it off. Don't want it to look like I left them like that. Removing, then replacing or, tapping takes far too much time. Even on flat doors I am able to keep the brush marks going up and down with little trouble.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Whether leaving them on or off I can usually "handle" it either way.


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## Hissing Cobra (Feb 24, 2014)

I take them off on every door. I also remove the latches on all door casings, and disconnect the door from the casing by removing the screws on the casing side of the hinge (I leave the hinges attached to the doors). On windows, I remove the locks and the pulls (if there are any). It's one of my pet peeves to see paint all over the hardware because it looks unprofessional. On walls, I remove outlet and switch covers as well.

I've been painting since 1985 (I started in High School in '85) and became a full time painter upon graduation in '87. I stayed full time until '01 (I left to find a job with Health Insurance and a 401K). Since then, I've been doing it on the side (interiors only).


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Hissing Cobra said:


> I take them off on every door. I also remove the latches on all door casings, and disconnect the door from the casing by removing the screws on the casing side of the hinge (I leave the hinges attached to the doors). On windows, I remove the locks and the pulls (if there are any). It's one of my pet peeves to see paint all over the hardware because it looks unprofessional. On walls, I remove outlet and switch covers as well.
> 
> I've been painting since 1985 (I started in High School in '85) and became a full time painter upon graduation in '87. I stayed full time until '01 (I left to find a job with Health Insurance and a 401K). Since then, I've been doing it on the side (interiors only).


As a full time painter, I have a lot of pet peeves concerning previous paint jobs. But unless the customer (or project manager in my case) agrees to the time and subsequent costs associated with the extra work it requires to insure a perfect job, I'm cutting around stuff in place. And having learned from experience, it's highly unlikely there's going to be a beneficial ROT (Recover Of Time) from dismantling and reinstalling doors.

But as a pure craftsman, I suppose the 10%, who have the beautiful blank checks with your name on it, would be more than pleased if you were to spend as much time as possible dismantling everything in the house in order to ensure there is paint behind it, and not on it.


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## oldccm (Jan 23, 2013)

Don't we just spray them and razor them off after?


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

CApainter said:


> As a full time painter, I have a lot of pet peeves concerning previous paint jobs. But unless the customer (or project manager in my case) agrees to the time and subsequent costs associated with the extra work it requires to insure a perfect job, I'm cutting around stuff in place. And having learned from experience, it's highly unlikely there's going to be a beneficial ROT (Recover Of Time) from dismantling and reinstalling doors.
> 
> But as a pure craftsman, I suppose the 10%, who have the beautiful blank checks with your name on it, would be more than pleased if you were to spend as much time as possible dismantling everything in the house in order to ensure there is paint behind it, and not on it.


It's just factored into the labor (prep) when the bid is given. It's not that big of a deal.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

RH said:


> It's just factored into the labor (prep) when the bid is given. It's not that big of a deal.


As part of the homeowner ninety percentile, I'd never pay a painting contractor the time it would take to remove and replace doors just for a paint job. The guy that can paint around a door knob without getting paint on it, is getting the job. 

Last thing I need is a bunch of dings on my walls from moving around unhinged doors.


----------



## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

CApainter said:


> As part of the homeowner ninety percentile, I'd never pay a painting contractor the time it would take to remove and replace doors just for a paint job. The guy that can paint around a door knob without getting paint on it, is getting the job.
> 
> Last thing I need is a bunch of dings on my walls from moving around unhinged doors.


We seemed to have digressed from taking off door knobs to taking off doors.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Gough said:


> We seemed to have digressed from taking off door knobs to taking off doors.


That I would never do. You've got a perfect hanging drying situation to leave it on, why would you take it off?


----------



## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

CApainter said:


> As part of the homeowner ninety percentile, I'd never pay a painting contractor the time it would take to remove and replace doors just for a paint job. The guy that can paint around a door knob without getting paint on it, is getting the job.
> 
> Last thing I need is a bunch of dings on my walls from moving around unhinged doors.


I think I misread your post (#135) that I quoted before. Thought you were referring to just doorknobs - I never take the entire door down unless it's getting sprayed.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I realize there are times to remove things. But often, things can be painted around if you are a good brushman. And unless i was replacing the door hardware with new stuff, I'd be pretty aprehensive about installing a greasy lock set after painting a door.


----------



## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

CApainter said:


> I realize there are times to remove things. But often, things can be painted around if you are a good brushman. And unless i was replacing the door hardware with new stuff, I'd be pretty aprehensive about installing a greasy lock set after painting a door.





PaintersUnite said:


> To me, it presents more of a hassle and/or problem to remove and reinstall door knobs than it's worth. I have a list of reasons why I don't remove them to include: losing parts, breaking inner parts, having difficulty reinstalling, scratching the fresh paint while reinstalling, etc.


Yes, that was one (grease), I left off of my list.


----------



## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

CApainter said:


> I realize there are times to remove things. But often, things can be painted around if you are a good brushman. And unless i was replacing the door hardware with new stuff, I'd be pretty aprehensive about installing a greasy lock set after painting a door.


It's not so much grease as it is graphite powder. When I remove a door knob I can see that it might be an issue so a quick tap against a hard surface removes most of the offending material. Still, there are occasions when a bit will still drift out - but it's not usually much of a problem.


----------



## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

I wish this thread and all the knob talk could just come to a happy ending.....


----------



## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> I wish this thread and all the knob talk could just come to a happy ending.....


:notworthy: :notworthy:


----------



## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> I wish this thread and all the knob talk could just come to a happy ending.....


No kidding. I think we've polished this knob down to the nub. :yes:


----------



## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> I wish this thread and all the knob talk could just come to a happy ending.....


I agree. Our 1st Paint Pro of the Month CApainter, brought the house down. :thumbsup:

Close this thread up.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Close the door on this thread already?


----------



## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

TJ Paint said:


> I had a 2 story office building of walls with this stuff. I'm not sure which was worse, the base or the hard unpadded carpet flooring.


That's another story!


----------



## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Don't read, don't post and it'll die a natural death. No need to euthanize it.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

I take the door off then paint around the knob


----------



## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Ole34 said:


> I take the door off then paint around the knob


lol - Always the rebel.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Is it February already?


----------



## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Ole34 said:


> I take the door off then paint around the knob


we would take the door off, but leave the knob suspended right where it was.

Some HO's got confused. :blink:


----------



## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

speaking of door knobs how many times have you seen the locks on the WRONG side of a bedroom door?.............. i know i have a few times an always wonder wth ?....i keep my mouth shut though. never know maybe a bad kid or something...maybe parents are FREAKS ??.........who knows right


----------



## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Ole34 said:


> speaking of door knobs how many times have you seen the locks on the WRONG side of a bedroom door?.............. i know i have a few times an always wonder wth ?....i keep my mouth shut though. never know maybe a bad kid or something...maybe parents are FREAKS ??.........who knows right


I always assumed that it was the result of an unskilled knober trying to improve his game but not quite getting it right. (Jester emoji here)


----------



## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

PaintersUnite said:


> Yes, that was one (grease), I left off of my list.


grease is the word.


----------



## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

mudbone said:


> grease is the word.


Have you heard?


----------



## playedout6 (Apr 27, 2009)

Wolfgang said:


> Never remove anything that has do with a home security system.


.....and never open the back door at a bank on a Saturday morning in a small town .....LMAO...it is a good way though to see if the police force is awake ! :whistling2:


----------



## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

playedout6 said:


> .....and never open the back door at a bank on a Saturday morning in a small town .....LMAO...it is a good way though to see if the police force is awake ! :whistling2:


That's funny you mentioned that.My helper at the time and I was on the back porch painting this doctors home and they had taken off for vacation and my helper at the time,noticed I've said that twice now:whistling2:anyway he started painting their back door with knob attached by the way in case you were wondering and he cracked the door open and the sirens went a wailing! Cops arrived at the front door ringing the dumbbell. Sorry doorbell.


----------



## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

This thread needed a new direction so yeah, how many here have _not_ set off the sirens in a home security system before? 

I can remember two occasions very well!


----------



## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

slinger58 said:


> This thread needed a new direction so yeah, how many here have _not_ set off the sirens in a home security system before?
> 
> I can remember two occasions very well!


I cannot say that I haven't, and FYI I got in trouble for being here the other night, thanks a lot.:jester:


----------



## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

fauxlynn said:


> I cannot say that I haven't, and FYI I got in trouble for being here the other night, thanks a lot.:jester:


Lol. Details?


----------



## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

slinger58 said:


> Lol. Details?


Nothing to tell, we set off an alarm once, kept painting while we waited for the Po Po.


Ohhhhh, that other thing?.......I don't kiss and tell.....unless I'm drinking.


----------



## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

slinger58 said:


> This thread needed a new direction so yeah, how many here have _not_ set off the sirens in a home security system before?
> 
> I can remember two occasions very well!


Forget home security systems, let's take it up a notch. How about setting off the alarms in institutional settings, the ones that send the whole fire department over?


----------



## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Gough said:


> Forget home security systems, let's take it up a notch. How about setting off the alarms in institutional settings, the ones that send the whole fire department over?


The fire department brings water guns, the police bring lead guns. :yes:


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

slinger58 said:


> The fire department brings water guns, the police bring lead guns. :yes:


True enough, but there are whole lot more FD guys who show up.

A derail of a derail: went to drop off gear at the downtown shop a few months ago and saw a bunch of white powder in some odd design on the loading dock. I called the non-emergency police number to ask for a recommendation. That turned an otherwise dull summer afternoon into community event: fire trucks, emergency services, police cars, and too many incident coordinators to count.

Turned out to be some trail mark left by a local running club.


----------



## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Gough said:


> True enough, but there are whole lot more FD guys who show up.
> 
> A derail of a derail: went to drop off gear at the downtown shop a few months ago and saw a bunch of white powder in some odd design on the loading dock. I called the non-emergency police number to ask for a recommendation. That turned an otherwise dull summer afternoon into community event: fire trucks, emergency services, police cars, and too many incident coordinators to count.
> 
> Turned out to be some trail mark left by a local running club.


LMAO. What a world we live in now. :no:


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Gough said:


> Forget home security systems, let's take it up a notch. How about setting off the alarms in institutional settings, the ones that send the whole fire department over?


my guys set off the fire alarm while spraying trim in a swanky high rise condo building. Overspray tripped a smoke detector that didn't get deactivated. I get a call from one of my guys who sounded like he had just seen a ghost, "this is very bad" he said, as I could hear the sirens and intercom evacuation announcement in the background. It never came to a full scale evacuation, however, several fire engines did show up. The tower management took full responsibility because I was totally checked out by the concierge.


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

When sanding sheetrock mud in the corridor of a bank building, ALWAYS REMEMBER to cover the smoke sensors with plastic. Don't ask me how I know this........


----------



## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

Never...blue tape and roll up...8 years


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

We (I) set off the fire alarm for wal-mart because I masked off the fire sensors, not letting it get fresh air I guess. That was embarrassing.

We had couldn't do any masking or spraying around them until the system was verified to be off after that.


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## luny2nz (Nov 14, 2008)

Yes. Unless it's a blow and go. I remove, put the screws back in the lockset. I tape the screws and striker plate with the lockset and number it. Blow the graphite out, sand and clean.I use a short nap roller and lay off each panel with a soft brush.
Two coats unless they are in very good condition and the color is close. Some jobs we remove the doors and spray them at the shop. 30 years.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

Oh I remember why the fire alarms went off at Wal-mart when I masked one of them. The alarm systems needed a clear line of sight to one another by laser or something, and the masking blocked that, made it think the air was smokey.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

ridesarize said:


> Oh I remember why the fire alarms went off at Wal-mart when I masked one of them. The alarm systems needed a clear line of sight to one another by laser or something, and the masking blocked that, made it think the air was smokey.


This is interesting to me since I have never seen or heard of a fire alarm dependent on breaking a beam to activate. And given that a fire alarm system is normally armed during the day and evenings, it seems unlikely that the sytem would allow itself to be compromised so easily. For instance, someone changing a light bulb or rolling out a ceiling.

I'm wondering if it had an O2 sensor that was activated when you smothered it with masking. Did you use plastic?


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

CApainter said:


> This is interesting to me since I have never seen or heard of a fire alarm dependent on breaking a beam to activate. And given that a fire alarm system is normally armed during the day and evenings, it seems unlikely that the sytem would allow itself to be compromised so easily. For instance, someone changing a light bulb or rolling out a ceiling.
> 
> I'm wondering if it had an O2 sensor that was activated when you smothered it with masking. Did you use plastic?


They're called "beam detectors".

http://www.firesafetysearch.com/products/detectors/beam-detectors/


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## BuckeyePainter (Feb 14, 2014)

No, I've never removed door knobs prior to painting. I usually just cut around them, or on occasion, tape them off and paint. Been in it full time for 6 years.


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## Shakey0818 (Feb 1, 2012)

I never remove the knob.I paint the rose and the shank but not the knob.I tell the customer that painting it make it blend in with the door and not as noticeable.

26 years


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Shakey0818 said:


> I never remove the knob.I paint the rose and the shank but not the knob.I tell the customer that painting it make it blend in with the door and not as noticeable.
> 
> 26 years


Seriously?


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

Shakey0818 said:


> I never remove the knob.I paint the rose and the shank but not the knob.I tell the customer that painting it make it blend in with the door and not as noticeable.
> 
> 26 years



shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

CApainter said:


> This is interesting to me since I have never seen or heard of a fire alarm dependent on breaking a beam to activate. And given that a fire alarm system is normally armed during the day and evenings, it seems unlikely that the sytem would allow itself to be compromised so easily. For instance, someone changing a light bulb or rolling out a ceiling.
> 
> I'm wondering if it had an O2 sensor that was activated when you smothered it with masking. Did you use plastic?


Fire alarms/detectors were way up about 18 to 20 feet off ground. Any work would be authorized and they most likely would shut the system off. After the first false alarm, our Foreman would not allow a lift to go up unless system was off.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

Shakey0818 said:


> I never remove the knob.I paint the rose and the shank but not the knob.I tell the customer that painting it make it blend in with the door and not as noticeable.
> 
> 26 years


That's really going the extra mile. Clients may have felt _shafted_ though. My old foreman/boss also said "I don't get to paid to do anything half-a$$, it's full a$$ or nothing".


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## Shakey0818 (Feb 1, 2012)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Seriously?


I was kidding.I usually keep the knobs on when painting a wood grain textured door and if smooth i take them off.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

Whew 

:bangin:


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## Monkeyboy (Aug 6, 2013)

I always remove any fittings when painting. I also clean all the old paint off the fittings. This makes the whole look so much better. Especially with old doors and windows that can't be made to look brand new again. The HO sees a brightly polished fitting instead of any blemishes in the finished product.

I've been cursed for 30 years now.


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## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

Monkeyboy said:


> I always remove any fittings when painting. I also clean all the old paint off the fittings. This makes the whole look so much better. Especially with old doors and windows that can't be made to look brand new again. The HO sees a brightly polished fitting instead of any blemishes in the finished product.
> 
> I've been cursed for 30 years now.


We were doing a church in Fall River Ma many years ago lots of very cool old Historical churches there. Ceilings, walls, faux columns , gold leaf statues etc.. Big job the only thing the head priest and bishop noticed was how clean we got all the hardware...lol. It had years of paint on it so a couple the young guys took it to a shop we setup in basement and cleaned polished the piss out of it:thumbsup:


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

So since this thread has developed a self righteous tone, in terms of dismantling and polishing door knobs, particularly in regards to the church, I have to ask, is there any time you paint _around_ hardware?

Before you flog me for heresy, I'm not serious.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

CApainter said:


> So since this thread has developed a self righteous tone, in terms of dismantling and polishing door knobs, particularly in regards to the church, I have to ask, is there any time you paint _around_ hardware?
> 
> Before you flog me for heresy, I'm not serious.


When I worked union jobs "commercial work", the shops I worked for never removed hardware. If you were a journeymen, you had the skill to brush around anything. And what I like about unions, is that they offer apprenticeship programs. All union apprentices, regardless of state, are taught from the same text book. 

Whereas, non-union, mom & pops shops here on PT, every company owner learns from a different source, therefore, has their own unique values and systems. Some here are self taught, some learned what was passed down to them by family members. 

When a man from the south speaks, he has a different drawl then a man from New York, and I believe what they learn as tradesmen (the do's and don'ts), differs equally. But there are more factors that may apply to an independent contractors value systems.


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## Painter-Aaron (Jan 17, 2013)

I like to paper the perimeter of the floors around uncarpeted floors. 

The drop sheets always tend to move just enough for splatter specs 

A couple employees always told me how stupid it was and a waste. But if rather it look clean and professional than it does cleaning it


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Painter-Aaron said:


> I like to paper the perimeter of the floors around uncarpeted floors.
> 
> The drop sheets always tend to move just enough for splatter specs
> 
> A couple employees always told me how stupid it was and a waste. But if rather it look clean and professional than it does cleaning it


Our current job (resi repaint) has highly polished HW floors that were recently refinished. I'm hesitant to tape down Kraft or rosin paper on the fresh finishes, and regular canvases turn into slip-and-slides. We found some of these non-slip drops at our local lumberyard and picked up a stack of them to try.

http://www.covergrip.com/CoverGrip-Safety-Drop-Cloths.aspx

So far, so good.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Gough said:


> Our current job (resi repaint) has highly polished HW floors that were recently refinished. I'm hesitant to tape down Kraft or rosin paper on the fresh finishes, and regular canvases turn into slip-and-slides. We found some of these non-slip drops at our local lumberyard and picked up a stack of them to try.
> 
> http://www.covergrip.com/CoverGrip-Safety-Drop-Cloths.aspx
> 
> So far, so good.



Yes, those are quite nice for hardwood, especially stairs. Only downside is there not leak proof. Though I suspect the rubber nubs on the backs would do a lot to slow leaking, at least compared to a regular canvas drop.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

PaintersUnite said:


> When I worked union jobs "commercial work", the shops I worked for never removed hardware. If you were a journeymen, you had the skill to brush around anything. And what I like about unions, is that they offer apprenticeship programs. All union apprentices, regardless of state, are taught from the same text book. Whereas, non-union, mom & pops shops here on PT, every company owner learns from a different source, therefore, has their own unique values and systems. Some here are self taught, some learned what was passed down to them by family members. When a man from the south speaks, he has a different drawl then a man from New York, and I believe what they learn as tradesmen (the do's and don'ts), differs equally. But there are more factors that may apply to an independent contractors value systems.


Because unions are so universally known and respected as breeding grounds for innovation and efficiency......?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> Because unions are so universally known and respected as breeding grounds for innovation and efficiency......?


With all due respect EPC, what other organization offers a qualified and measurable skill set for the professional painter, that is also recognized Nation wide, as is the AFL CIO?


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

CApainter said:


> With all due respect EPC, what other organization offers a qualified and measurable skill set for the professional painter, that is also recognized Nation wide, as is the AFL CIO?


i don't have a problem with union painters, only union painter with superiority complexes. I've hired great ex-union painters, and piss poor ones, really doesn't mean sh!t to me.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> i don't have a problem with union painters, only union painter with superiority complexes.


..as well as painting contractors with superiority complexes. I understand.


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## Painter-Aaron (Jan 17, 2013)

Gough said:


> Our current job (resi repaint) has highly polished HW floors that were recently refinished. I'm hesitant to tape down Kraft or rosin paper on the fresh finishes, and regular canvases turn into slip-and-slides. We found some of these non-slip drops at our local lumberyard and picked up a stack of them to try.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'll have to try and find those around here. It would save me a lot of time from papering


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

CApainter said:


> ..as well as painting contractors with superiority complexes. I understand.


I try hard to control it, but sometimes it gets the best of me. Nobody's perfect.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> I try hard to control it, but sometimes it gets the best of me. Nobody's perfect.


Understood. And without generating a new thread, is there any other alternative to the AFL CIO recognized union apprenticeship training programs for painters?

I could not find any Nationally recognized painter apprenticeship programs in the PDCA. And it doesn't surprise me given that the PDCA, like SSPC, are organizations for painting contractors.

As far as I can tell, the best training programs for painters are still provided by the unions. Or at least the qualified programs are.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> Because unions are so universally known and respected as breeding grounds for innovation and efficiency......?


As a union painter, the painter works for painting contractors, not the union. The painting contractors have a contract with the painters union. Said contractors have to pay the prevailing wage and benefits package, as agreed upon and noted by the department of labor. 

*Painter employee*

Non-union pay scale (Journeymen).
$14 to $22 per hour
non-union guys don't know what each other is making and it's NOT ok to talk about your pay rate with other painters. Your employer will get p!ssed.
No health care
No pension
No annuity

Vs.

union pay scale (Journeymen).
$35 to $42 per hour (plus fringe benefits), depending on state. 
Union guys know what each other is making and it's ok to talk about your pay rate with other painters. 
Yes health care
Yes pension
Yes annuity

*Pick one?*


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

CApainter said:


> Understood. And without generating a new thread, is there any other alternative to the AFL CIO recognized union apprenticeship training programs for painters? I could not find any Nationally recognized painter apprenticeship programs in the PDCA. And it doesn't surprise me given that the PDCA, like SSPC, are organizations for painting contractors. As far as I can tell, the best training programs for painters are still provided by the unions. Or at least the qualified programs are.


idk. That doesn't mean that there are not hundreds, if not thousands of effective private training programs that are equally or even more effective for a particular contractor's situation. Again I would argue that most innovations and efficiencies come from entrepreneurs rather than bureaucracies.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

I didn't go through a apprenticeship program.
I bought a book. 
We don't take off door hardware ever. Not for nothing but where would you even store it? And a door, commercial. The hardware isn't even ballpark the same as a house, might be I don't know a hour job to take off and put back on. A lot of them. Specialty tools. Not even a consideration to take off and put back on.

I do wind up with pocketfuls of silencers in my home trash can, lol. They pop right out......my only avenue of retaliation against carpenters who run me over. Some solace in chucking em.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> idk. That doesn't mean that there are not hundreds, if not thousands of effective private training programs that are equally or even more effective for a particular contractor's situation. Again I would argue that most innovations and efficiencies come from entrepreneurs rather than bureaucracies.


Understood. But what separates Willy Nilly from Entrepreneurialism? I believe its the measurable qualifications widely recognized, that separate the two.

Despite the anomalies associated with entrepreneurial innovators such Gates, Jobs, and Zuckerberg, innovations often require a foundation of qualified and measurable controls.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> idk. That doesn't mean that there are not hundreds, if not thousands of effective private training programs that are equally or even more effective for a particular contractor's situation. Again I would argue that most innovations and efficiencies come from entrepreneurs rather than bureaucracies.


I swear I am not being argumentative,
Hundreds and thousands of paint training programs? 
Are you serious?
Where?


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

Oden said:


> I swear I am not being argumentative,
> Hundreds and thousands of paint training programs?
> Are you serious?
> Where?


Dude ....ive made at least 5 :whistling2:


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> idk. *That doesn't mean that there are not hundreds, if not thousands of effective private training programs that are equally or even more effective for a particular contractor's situation.* Again I would argue that most innovations and efficiencies come from entrepreneurs rather than *bureaucracies.*


Name 1? 
Also, the union painters apprenticeship program, I believe the apprentices are in class 1 day of the week, and 4 days a week on the job earning a pay check. I bet you didn't know that?

The Business Agents and District Council Pres were all painters once upon a time.

*Oden* - yes, if you were already an experienced painter (and knew someone in the union), you don't need to serve an apprenticeship. They can help you get in as a journeymen if you are good.


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## luny2nz (Nov 14, 2008)

CApainter said:


> So since this thread has developed a self righteous tone, in terms of dismantling and polishing door knobs, particularly in regards to the church, I have to ask, is there any time you paint _around_ hardware?
> 
> Before you flog me for heresy, I'm not serious.


Years ago-I painted a church. My budget was tight. So,I added allot of water to my paint. And yes-wrapped the door knobs.
The job turned out hideous. 
The Pastor of the church came to me and said-
Repaint!-and thin no more!


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

luny2nz said:


> Years ago-I painted a church. My budget was tight. So,I added allot of water to my paint. And yes-wrapped the door knobs.
> The job turned out hideous.
> The Pastor of the church came to me and said-
> Repaint!-and thin no more!


Obviously you're going to Hell.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Oden said:


> I swear I am not being argumentative, Hundreds and thousands of paint training programs? Are you serious? Where?


 I was referring to individual company training systems. There are thousands of successful non-Union shops with their own individual systems. One-size-fits-all training doesn't always work best. Case in point, cutting around door knobs isn't acceptable on some jobs we do. We therefore must adapt to what satisfies our customers rather than stick to the manual and get fired.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> I was referring to individual company training systems. There are thousands of successful non-Union shops with their own individual systems. One-size-fits-all training doesn't always work best. Case in point, cutting around door knobs isn't acceptable on some jobs we do. We therefore must adapt to what satisfies our customers rather than stick to the manual and get fired.


It's not the union painter who determines whether a door knob gets removed or not. That is the job of the contractor/estimator. The Journeyman painter will paint whatever way you want. That's what he or she has been trained for.

And common sense, along with what a customer is willing to pay for, will determine whether or not I'm painting around a door knob. There is no special entrepreneurial wisdom required.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

PaintersUnite said:


> Name 1?
> Also, the union painters apprenticeship program, I believe the apprentices are in class 1 day of the week, and 4 days a week on the job earning a pay check. I bet you didn't know that?
> 
> The Business Agents and District Council Pres were all painters once upon a time.
> ...


I only know of one Prep To Finish in VT started by Scott Burt.

I wonder if they teach proper knob jobbing techniques?


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

CApainter said:


> It's not the union painter who determines whether a door knob gets removed or not. That is the job of the contractor/estimator. The Journeyman painter will paint whatever way you want. That's what he or she has been trained for. And common sense, along with what a customer is willing to pay for, will determine whether or not I'm painting around a door knob. There is no special entrepreneurial wisdom required.


 I've got no problem with that. If the client is happy at the end of the job, then it's a job well done. Some are knobbers , and some are no-knobbers. Life goes on. How's that for a happy ending?


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

PaintersUnite said:


> As a union painter, the painter works for painting contractors, not the union. The painting contractors have a contract with the painters union. Said contractors have to pay the prevailing wage and benefits package, as agreed upon and noted by the department of labor. Painter employee Non-union pay scale (Journeymen). $14 to $22 per hour non-union guys don't know what each other is making and it's NOT ok to talk about your pay rate with other painters. Your employer will get p!ssed. No health care No pension No annuity Vs. union pay scale (Journeymen). $35 to $42 per hour (plus fringe benefits), depending on state. Union guys know what each other is making and it's ok to talk about your pay rate with other painters. Yes health care Yes pension Yes annuity Pick one?


 I agree 100% that union jobs pay better and have better benefits. If I was employed, then I would definitely want to be union. I'm just arguing about door knobs here.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

11 pages is a pretty incredible achievement for this particular subject.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

CApainter said:


> It's not the union painter who determines whether a door knob gets removed or not. That is the job of the contractor/estimator. The Journeyman painter will paint whatever way you want. That's what he or she has been trained for.
> 
> And common sense, along with what a customer is willing to pay for, will determine whether or not I'm painting around a door knob. There is no special entrepreneurial wisdom required.


CA, we've been around some "two-gate" jobs where the work rules were so zealously enforced that a painter removing a doorknob would result in a crisis.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

Gough said:


> CA, we've been around some "two-gate" jobs where the work rules were so zealously enforced that a painter removing a doorknob would result in a crisis.


Yeh but
I'm not on the job you were on of course but
What you are talking about IMHO is a contractor issue. Weather you see it or not. It is. The doors installed and hardwared belong to that contractor, it's his work. He is responsible for them doors. Of course they don't want their finished work being taken apart and reinstalled by another contractor. They don't want to be responsible for the work. And if extra work orders are involved. They want the hours. 

Same as you wouldn't want the carpenter to do damage to ur door while installing the hardware, and who knows. Maybe gobbling some caulk onto the 3" errant hole he mistakenly cut at the wrong height, and wiping some paint on it with his hand, and letting the general beleive you did the work. Nah. The painter paints the doors. The carpentry outfit installs. And each is responsible for their work.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Oden said:


> Maybe gobbling some caulk onto the 3" errant hole


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Oden said:


> Yeh but
> I'm not on the job you were on of course but
> What you are talking about IMHO is a contractor issue. Weather you see it or not. It is. The doors installed and hardwared belong to that contractor, it's his work. He is responsible for them doors. Of course they don't want their finished work being taken apart and reinstalled by another contractor. They don't want to be responsible for the work. And if extra work orders are involved. They want the hours.
> 
> Same as you wouldn't want the carpenter to do damage to ur door while installing the hardware, and who knows. Maybe gobbling some caulk onto the 3" errant hole he mistakenly cut at the wrong height, and wiping some paint on it with his hand, and letting the general beleive you did the work. Nah. The painter paints the doors. The carpentry outfit installs. And each is responsible for their work.


Thanks, Oden, I get that.

Ultimately, I noticed that the more vocal advocates of the remove knob/paint around knob groups seemed to fall into non-Union/union camps. It made me wonder if the approach to dealing with doorknobs might reflect the 
_Weltanschauung_ stemming from the different paths learning the trades.
I could understand a painter thinking, "I'm a painter, I don't remove/install doorknobs."..or light fixtures...or whatever is normally done by another trade.

Just my musings on a cold, rainy afternoon while I'm waiting for some Coverstain to dry.

But I did get to use "Weltanschauung" in a PT post. I wonder where Bender is.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

How about this: do what works.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Gough said:


> Thanks, Oden, I get that.
> 
> Ultimately, I noticed that the more vocal advocates of the remove knob/paint around knob groups seemed to fall into non-Union/union camps. It made me wonder if the approach to dealing with doorknobs might reflect the
> _Weltanschauung_ stemming from the different paths learning the trades.
> ...


I think it has to do more with a production mind set than not following best practices. Painting contractors determine in their bids whether door knobs will be removed or not. Painters are instructed to produce. Most of the painting contractors I ever worked with never allowed for door knobs to be removed. If they had, I would have removed them as instructed. The reality is, most painting contractors don't budget to remove door knobs. That seems to be left to the specialty painters.

And that's where a lot of issues come up at PT. There's a tone from self employed painters that they follow all of these best practices to a T, when in reality, they'd never have that luxury outside of their self employed fiefdoms.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

luny2nz said:


> Years ago-I painted a church. My budget was tight. So,I added allot of water to my paint. And yes-wrapped the door knobs.
> The job turned out hideous.
> The Pastor of the church came to me and said-
> Repaint!-and thin no more!



Maybe the Pastor just had a lisp and really had no idea you painted with water & food coloring. 


Stelzer Painting Inc.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

CApainter said:


> I think it has to do more with a production mind set than not following best practices. Painting contractors determine in their bids whether door knobs will be removed or not. Painters are instructed to produce. Most of the painting contractors I ever worked with never allowed for door knobs to be removed. If they had, I would have removed them as instructed. The reality is, most painting contractors don't budget to remove door knobs. That seems to be left to the specialty painters.
> 
> And that's where a lot of issues come up at PT. There's a tone from self employed painters that they follow all of these best practices to a T, when in reality, they'd never have that luxury outside of their self employed fiefdoms.


I guess the outfits that I started with must have been outliers. It was nearly all institutional/commercial with the usual emphasis on production. OTOH, it was made clear from day one that part of the process was "taking a room apart."

Ultimately, TJ has the right idea.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Gough said:


> I guess the outfits that I started with must have been outliers. It was nearly all institutional/commercial with the usual emphasis on production. OTOH, it was made clear from day one that part of the process was "taking a room apart."
> 
> Ultimately, TJ has the right idea.[/QUOTE]
> 
> Soooooooo, can we now end this stupid epic debate?:notworthy:


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Gough said:


> I guess the outfits that I started with must have been outliers. It was nearly all institutional/commercial with the usual emphasis on production. OTOH, it was made clear from day one that part of the process was "taking a room apart."
> 
> Ultimately, TJ has the right idea.


Were you getting paid union wages at the time? As Painters Unite pointed out, do you want to have $35-$45 per hour guys removing and replacing door knobs, when they could be painting?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I also believe there's a misconception here that if you don't remove door knobs, there will be paint all over them. Not true.

Bottom line, removing door knobs does not make one a better painter than another. It's all a matter of logistics, and what time, and the mechanical properties of the door hardware will allow.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

CApainter said:


> Were you getting paid union wages at the time? As Painters Unite pointed out, do you want to have $35-$45 per hour guys removing and replacing door knobs, when they could be painting?


Actually, yes. Davis-Bacon projects, but that's besides the point. At <1 minute/lock set, I'm OK with them R/R them. 

I think this, like most of what painters do, comes down to a balancing act between the economic realities of production and expectations of the clients. We all end up somewhere along that continuum.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

CApainter said:


> I also believe there's a misconception here that if you don't remove door knobs, there will be paint all over them. Not true.
> 
> Bottom line, removing door knobs does not make one a better painter than another. It's all a matter of logistics, and what time, and the mechanical properties of the door hardware will allow.



Your absolutely right CA, but I think there might be another misconception being perpetuated here that taking knobs off is a huge time suck reserved for frilly-fo-fo painters with too much time on their hands. 

I'm sure it depends on a persons level of comfort in removing/replacing hardware and the tools used for the job, but it doesn't have to be a big deal. In a residential setting, two screws is all it takes. A cordless drill can make quick work of most knob styles. No need to keep up with what knob goes where either. Privacy knobs on bed and bathrooms, dummy's on closets. 

In the case of simple interior residential knobs, I would compare it to taking off switch plates. Can you cut around a switch plate or knob faster than you can take it off?..probably. Can you cut around it twice faster than taking it off?..I can't. 

It also depends on the methods of application I'm sure. Are you painting the entire door with only a brush anyway? Yeah, it might be faster to just leave the knob on. For my method of rolling doors and brushing the panels out in long strokes, the minute/minutes needed to deal with cutting around the knob add up quickly. The added time created by the necessity of detailed brush work offsets the time required to remove and replace the knob. Once again, not unlike switch plates. 

I do agree that either choice made is dependent on the situation and the demands of the specific job, and there is nothing about either method in general that makes one a "better painter". There are clearly times when taking them off is impractical, and more trouble than its worth. As there are other times when the film inconsistencies created by even the best applicators cutting around knobs is unacceptable.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> I was referring to individual company training systems. There are thousands of successful non-Union shops with their own individual systems. One-size-fits-all training doesn't always work best. Case in point, cutting around door knobs isn't acceptable on some jobs we do. We therefore must adapt to what satisfies our customers rather than stick to the manual and get fired.


I never got fired from a job for not taking door knobs off. I have had a few customers ask, "aren't you going to take off the door knobs"? I tell them, "it's more trouble than it's worth", and they are usually fine with that. I then state, "you are welcome to remove them yourself if you'd like"!


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

Jmayspaint said:


> Your absolutely right CA, but I think there might be another misconception being perpetuated here that taking knobs off is a huge time suck reserved for frilly-fo-fo painters with too much time on their hands.
> 
> I'm sure it depends on a persons level of comfort in removing/replacing hardware and the tools used for the job, but it doesn't have to be a big deal.


I am mechanically incline enough to remove and replace the door knobs if I chose to do so. I just feel that the final product will not look any better if I remove them, or suffer if I paint around them. The little HAIR of difference one would see if the knobs are removed vs. painted around, IMO, the HO, in a millions years, would not know the difference. At the end of the day, it's about satisfying the customer. And I have NEVER had a problem satisfying the customer, by painting around them.



Jmayspaint said:


> Can you cut around a switch plate or knob faster than you can take it off?..


I always take plates off. If the customer wants to change plates, the new plates may be smaller than the current plates, therefore by painting around them, there will be an area of drywall that is not painted if they chose to replace the plates. 



Jmayspaint said:


> I do agree that either choice made is dependent on the situation and the demands of the specific job, and there is nothing about either method in general that makes one a "better painter". There are clearly times when taking them off is impractical, and more trouble than its worth. As there are other times when the film inconsistencies created by even the best applicators cutting around knobs is unacceptable.



Better painter is not what matters. What matters is, will the customer notice a difference either way? And I don't believe they will (provided a skilled painters is at bat). Unless you are dealing with nitpickers that use magnification to inspect the final product. You know, the 1000 pieces of blue tape stuck to the wall type of customers?


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

PaintersUnite said:


> I never got fired from a job for not taking door knobs off. I have had a few customers ask, "aren't you going to take off the door knobs"? I tell them, "it's more trouble than it's worth", and they are usually fine with that. I then state, "you are welcome to remove them yourself if you'd like"!


 I've never been fired from a job for knobbing, or no-knobbing. It just so happens that I tend to work for knobbers. I try to do whatever it takes to make them happy. It's all about the service.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Since this thread is still kicking, despite being disemboweled and left for dead, I'll add one more point: 

Won't fastening the door hardware shortly after painting, and prior to securing an exterior door for the evening, create a difficult removal for the next super conscientious painter who'll have to remove the hardware, along with stuck paint?

The only thing that makes removing door knobs so easy for the conscientious painter, is because the last painter painted around them.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

CApainter said:


> Won't fastening the door hardware shortly after painting, and prior to securing an exterior door for the evening, create a difficult removal for the next super conscientious painter who'll have to remove the hardware, along with stuck paint?




I suppose that's possible, but I've never experienced that problem. Even when installing and removing an exterior lock set for multiple coats on subsequent days. Back to the switch plate analogy, as long as you don't put the knob back on wet or very fresh paint, and don't torque it more than necessary, it doesn't seem to be a problem.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

My god people...

How many painters does it take change a light bulb?

35.

1 to do the work and the other 34 to tell him he's doing it wrong.


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## Painter-Aaron (Jan 17, 2013)

ridesarize said:


> My god people...
> 
> How many painters does it take change a light bulb?
> 
> ...



How many here turn the breaker off before changing the bulb?


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

Saw this today and thought of this thread:









I guess sometimes people forget when the knob is left alone, lol. And that's why we remove em.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

chrisn said:


> Gough said:
> 
> 
> > I guess the outfits that I started with must have been outliers. It was nearly all institutional/commercial with the usual emphasis on production. OTOH, it was made clear from day one that part of the process was "taking a room apart."
> ...


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Cool man. 12 pages on taking off door knobs :laughing:


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Woodland said:


> Cool man. 12 pages on taking off door knobs :laughing:


Taking a page from Rbriggs' playbook, think of it as the "knob-job" thread. Maybe that will help. :whistling2:


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## Mathiasian (Nov 26, 2014)

*Depends on the job*

mostly yes, but not every circumstance will allow the time to do so, and it may not matter to the customer. If you have to mask a knob, it should be round. I would use 3" paper with 1" tape on a masker to do so. 22 yrs.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

slinger58 said:


> chrisn said:
> 
> 
> > Guess not. :blink:
> ...


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Ok, I am going to chime in. Interior doors. Depending on the job, I am either rolling, or spraying. Either way, I usually take them off. Front doors, exterior......Depends on the hardware, door, and the product, etc. 99% of the time, I'm spraying the door. Two coats. Leaving the hardware off overnight isn't an option, so normally I just mask it off. I do know how to mask. I have messed up a door or two over the years trying to put hardware back on while the paint is still wet. Not to mention, they may want to remove it or maybe someday replace it down the road and it will be stuck to the door. 

I think next week we should cover putty knives and 5 in 1s. Do you put them in your back pocket or side pocket?


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

I just wanted to see this thread go to the 13th page


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

Page 25 on the app...


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

driftweed said:


> Page 25 on the app...


should have died at 2


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## oldccm (Jan 23, 2013)

Woodland said:


> Ok, I am going to chime in. Interior doors. Depending on the job, I am either rolling, or spraying. Either way, I usually take them off. Front doors, exterior......Depends on the hardware, door, and the product, etc. 99% of the time, I'm spraying the door. Two coats. Leaving the hardware off overnight isn't an option, so normally I just mask it off. I do know how to mask. I have messed up a door or two over the years trying to put hardware back on while the paint is still wet. Not to mention, they may want to remove it or maybe someday replace it down the road and it will be stuck to the door.
> 
> I think next week we should cover putty knives and 5 in 1s. Do you put them in your back pocket or side pocket?



To answer the 5 in 1 question, neither. I've delegated that task to my apprentice. He always says 'don't you have one?' 'Yep' I reply 'just making sure you brought yours' lol


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

Look what i have to do today  
Not enough time between finishing doors and being done.


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## B-n-L Enterprises (Sep 10, 2014)

PaintersUnite said:


> *My contract States: *
> Hardware to be removed and re-installed. Includes curtain rods, window latches, switch plates and cover plates. *Door knobs*, thermostats, alarm system hardware *will not be removed*. "I also don't remove and reinstall light fixtures".
> 
> I've got 34 years painting under my belt. If a HO wants to remove and reinstall *Door knobs *themselves, that is up to them. If the door knobs are in place during the course of work, I have no problem skilfully painting around them and ultimately satisfying the customer. In my 34 years in the industry, I have never had a complaint.
> ...


Well just FYI, there is a bit of door under that door knob.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

Shhhhh. You'll wake up the thread. It just finally started snoring, soon to enter REM. With respect, we should prolly keep it that way...it's awful tired. 


Stelzer Painting Inc.


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## starwad (Dec 16, 2014)

Never


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## oldccm (Jan 23, 2013)




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## A+HomeWork (Dec 10, 2010)

Carl said:


> It depends on the situation. Obviously if the last hack has painted the door without removing the knob, you probably can't make it look any worse if you don't remove the knob as well. In this case, it would be a matter of production and mood. If I feel like removing the knob I may do it. If I'm in the mood to cut around it, I may leave the knob attached while I paint the door. In all cases, if I think that the end result would look bad if I don't remove the knob, then I will remove it. If the doors are textured, I will leave the knob on or take them off. If the doors are those smooth masonite doors that we see a lot of, taking off the knob is the only way to go. I have only been painting for a few weeks professionally but I painted my moms house a bunch of times over the years.


What he said with the exception of years painting (18)


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

I just got this beauty delivered to the shop today. I wanted to explode in a fit of rage, so I thought I'd share with all you knobers and no-knobers alike:









Rant complete.


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## Painter-Aaron (Jan 17, 2013)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> I just got this beauty delivered to the shop today. I wanted to explode in a fit of rage, so I thought I'd share with all you knobers and no-knobers alike:
> 
> View attachment 32217
> 
> ...



Can we all guess why runs are commonly found around door handles?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Until there are laws that are ratified and enforced by governmental authorities, that restrict the painting around of door knobs, I will continue to exercise my right to do so.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

Painter-Aaron said:


> Can we all guess why runs are commonly found around door handles?



Cause they use a roller .....


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

The butcher the Bakker and the candlestick maker have all put a coat a paint/stain on that particular door....
Runs drips and errors all over it at this point


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## PremierPaintingMa (Nov 30, 2014)

Painter-Aaron said:


> Can we all guess why runs are commonly found around door handles?


Cause they where never removed.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Oden said:


> The butcher the Bakker and the candlestick maker have all put a coat a paint/stain on that particular door....
> Runs drips and errors all over it at this point


We prefer the "baseball cadence": no drips, no runs, no errors.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> I just got this beauty delivered to the shop today. I wanted to explode in a fit of rage, so I thought I'd share with all you knobers and no-knobers alike:
> 
> View attachment 32217
> 
> ...


I see that stuff all the time I tend to take off all the hardware, clean it up, polish it, lacquer it and replace.


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