# Union painters



## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

This is your chance to sound off about union painters. Are union painters better than non union painters? What is your take on union painters? Are union painters as good or better than non union painters with everyday painting? Has the extra money and perks made them better and more equipped to handle everyday painting or worse? What is your view of union painters?


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Now you gone and did it. I predict 4 pages in 24 hours..............:whistling2:


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

A union is an attemp to increase egg production by strangling the chicken.:thumbup:


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Here is another one. You guy's that have hired painters that were union and now are looking for jobs, were you happy with what you got after hiring them?


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

johnpaint said:


> Here is another one. You guy's that have hired painters that were union and now are looking for jobs, were you happy with what you got after hiring them?


No. But then again, if they were good they would still be in the union.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

John there is no diff in union or non-union painters. Except they get paid twice as much for 1/2 the production,,,, but other than that !!!!!!!!!!!


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> No. But then again, if they were good they would still be in the union.


Well,I don't know about that because the union is down around here, maybe not where you are.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

johnpaint said:


> Well,I don't know about that because the union is down around here, maybe not where you are.


I'm talking in general. In years past when I hired an ex-union guy, in hindsight, there was a reason he was still not there.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> I'm talking in general. In years past when I hired an ex-union guy, in hindsight, there was a reason he was still not there.


That is a good point.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

Anybody but me old enough to remember this country song???

Everybody stand up and hollar for the union, we ain't hit a lick all year


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## mwaters27 (Aug 21, 2010)

wow.... where to start........ well at least in my experience most of them weren't worth the money and dont work as hard...


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

My take on your question is....

Just like any _company_, there are good painters, bad painters, production painters, detail guys etc. Union shops tend to be larger companys and have a corporate structure that weeds out the bad seeds to a point. Open shops tend to be smaller and run all by the owner that wears all of the hats. All the interviewing steps that are needed to insure a good hire usually dont happen. IMHO, it has more to do with size, than the fact they are union.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

I can think of two union shops in Chicago that go for two totally different markets.

"Ascher" is a large shop that works across the country doing primarially comercial. In years past they had at least a couple of hundered guys...

"Hester" is a high end residential painting, faux and wallpaper. We are talking _high end _here. There work is top notch. They did Michael Jordans house here when he was building it a few years ago....


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> My take on your question is....
> 
> Just like any _company_, there are good painters, bad painters, production painters, detail guys etc. Union shops tend to be larger companys and have a corporate structure that weeds out the bad seeds to a point. Open shops tend to be smaller and run all by the owner that wears all of the hats. All the interviewing steps that are needed to insure a good hire usually dont happen. IMHO, it has more to do with size, than the fact they are union.


Yes that is for sure true, I guess more of what I'm looking for is what has been your personal experience with new union hires/workers? Was it good, was it what you expected? Did they prove to be a better hire than Johnny off the street? Did they have the same expectations from you as a owner than any other hire, more or less?


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

"Hester" is a high end residential painting, faux and wallpaper. We are talking high end here. There work is top notch. They did Michael Jordans house here when he was building it a few years ago...."
Yes, but you could have done that job if given the chance, and maybe better, for less right?


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

But really there is a place for a union shop for sure.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

John your getting real serious,,, is this a new trend????


Well in my limited experience, ex-union guys come with a chip on their shoulder, they expect union pay and union work-loads (read twice as much and 1/2 respectively), then get indignant and walk off when they find out you expect them to get the job done and do whatever it takes to do so (read, it ain't MY job,I'm a painter) .

To sum it up, I have not had any luck relating to union guys


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## Wallpaper Gypsy (Feb 22, 2010)

Unions are unconstitutional. The only union that we really need is the USA. That being said, I was shop trained by a union dropout that turned capitalist and moved to N.C from Iowa. He was a better painter than most in the south. He taught me well. I learned things from him about coatings that I wouldn't have known had I not met him on a big commercial wallcovering project. 
I will never hold a union card however. In Arizona, a right to work state, can you imagine what a challenge it is for Jan Brewer to remain a right to work state with illegals funneling across the border? You don't want to go against your own principles and refuse the right to work when it's a fundamental part of a republic with a capitalist economy. 
But then again, she could use the unions to enforce the law pertaining to employers and illegal aliens.
THAT BEING SAID... all she has to do is llok a NEVADA. If I were to go to Vegas and hang wallcovering- I would have to be an apprentice for a year since I've never held a card. If I were Mexican... I could bypass it all for 1,000 dollars. 
That's bad news for America!


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> John your getting real serious,,, is this a new trend????
> 
> 
> Well in my limited experience, ex-union guys come with a chip on their shoulder, they expect union pay and union work-loads (read twice as much and 1/2 respectively), then get indignant and walk off when they find out you expect them to get the job done and do whatever it takes to do so (read, it ain't MY job,I'm a painter) .
> ...


No, I have just had a few experiences with union guy's and I just want to take a pulse of others.


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## Wallpaper Gypsy (Feb 22, 2010)

I will say though that... the gap between union painters and hourly emplyees is too big. The way to solve this and still keep that margin going is to put your men on production. 
A common misconception of non-union companies is that you can't pay a guy on production unless you 1099 him and make him have insurance. That's not true, there is no law that say's that you can't have production based paid emplyees on the payroll.


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## One Coat Coverage (Oct 4, 2009)

A union painter is in NO way better than the painter that has been running his own business for five or more years. 

Union painters EXPECT things to happen for them, guys like us MAKE things happen for us.

When it comes to skill leval, we have had to pull all kinds of tricks out of the bag in hairy situations to make the customer happy and still make a decent buck.

A hairy situation for a union guy just means more man hours for them.

I had a 23 year old kid working for me earlier this year, his Pops is a union painter. He was stunned when his kid told him that we use 18 inch rollers. He told his kid not to work too hard and only paint what people can see, etc.... Gave his kid a bunch of bad advice. Needless to say, he doesn't work for me anymore.

As far as comparing union guys to painters "off the street". The union guys are 100 times better. Most of the painters off the street are druggies and alcoholics and could never last in a union shop.

I don't hire either type of those painters, I get young guys and train them.


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## dvp (Jun 21, 2010)

i have worked with/ hired several union painters over the years and havn't been impressed by any of them, and none of them lasted for long. i joined the carpenters union last year for a job and it was a joke. i was hoping to learn something, all they did was wander around, take hour long breaks, try to blame all their screw ups on somebody else, and talk about how good they are. and we were making $47 per hr+per diem. i doubt any of them could have passed a drug screen either. just my experience though.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

No one mentioned that a union painter has to go through a certified apprenticeship, which includes classes, before they become journeyman. How many of you have accomplished that?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> John there is no diff in union or non-union painters. Except they get paid twice as much for 1/2 the production,,,, but other than that !!!!!!!!!!!


Wrong. Union painters are trained under a recognized standard.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> John your getting real serious,,, is this a new trend????
> 
> 
> Well in my limited experience, ex-union guys come with a chip on their shoulder, they expect union pay and union work-loads (read twice as much and 1/2 respectively), then get indignant and walk off when they find out you expect them to get the job done and do whatever it takes to do so (read, it ain't MY job,I'm a painter) .
> ...


Maybe they don't agree with your material choices, and method of application.


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## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

Having been a union guy my take would be that most of the painters I worked with produced quality work. However, listening to the constant complaining and not being able to work for more than 3 hours straight without a break drove me crazy. I like to go to work to work, not take a ton of breaks. I think that most union employees are overpaid for the amount they produce.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

It's true about the breaks. But union painters represent employees,not paint company owners.

Unions fought to help to give the workers certain rights, and by exercising those rights , union workers are recognizing those that struggled to gain those rights, such as breaks.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

CApainter said:


> It's true about the breaks. But union painters represent employees,not paint company owners.
> 
> Unions fought to help to give the workers certain rights, and by exercising those rights , union workers are recognizing those that struggled to gain those rights, such as breaks.


LOL. Looks like were are the minority here. Long time Union Painter myself. There are good and bad painters on both sides of the fence. I have worked for really good shops with top notch painters where we produced quality work at a fast pace and I have worked for shops that were a joke. Dont know how anyone could come up with any misconception that Union painters are better or worse than non-union? I can paint, I produce, and I work hard. If I were to shut down the business and go back to working for wages, it would be Union. :thumbsup: And it wouldn't be so I could get a break every couple hours. I just like being payed a fair wage, with health insurance and a pension.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

How can I sign up for a union job? It sounds like I might make more doing less work. Thanks.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

I've had union workers work for me. One thing I've notice in a positive light, is they have had great safety training. They are extremely safety conscience. 

I've always been negative on journeyman/apprenticeship. Thought they were big headed and lazy. Since doing prevailing wage work and joining a apprenticeship program (non union). My mind has been changed. We tend to look on the outside judging those in the inside. Their are some very talented journeymen that bring a sense of professionalism. Which I can really appreciate. I believe that type of painter is worth the 39 bucks I pay my journeyman.


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## AztecPainting (Jan 28, 2010)

I have one employee that used to work for the Union Painters, he was making $33/hr. plus benefits and retirement, bonuses, over time pay and stuff like that, he decided to quit due to his divorce and he needed a change plus he always tell us stories about some other guys at the union that don't give a sh... and how some painters are lazy as f... but also about some guys that were awesome, just like everything else, this guy always tell me how happy he is working for my company and I take pride of it, this guy is not the best painter but I know this guy is very loyal. Some people just don't like too many policies and some just like to take advantage of it.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

IMO the most worthless painters I've had are the ones that call themselves 'custom painters'. Which just tells me they are extremely slow. That is 75% of your repaint outfits. I can't tell you how many guys I've hired claiming the custom bit. They worked for 'Mr. Big Shot repaint guy' They end up fired or layed off.


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## wje (Apr 11, 2009)

ewingpainting.net said:


> IMO the most worthless painters I've had are the ones that call themselves 'custom painters'. Which just tells me they are extremely slow. That is 75% of your repaint outfits. I can't tell you how many guys I've hired claiming the custom bit. They worked for 'Mr. Big Shot repaint guy' They end up fired or layed off.


Most people who claim to be "custom", are custom alright. Usually not in the way they go on about though. I have sure met some "custom" painters.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

ewingpainting.net said:


> IMO the most worthless painters I've had are the ones that call themselves 'custom painters'. Which just tells me they are extremely slow. That is 75% of your repaint outfits. I can't tell you how many guys I've hired claiming the custom bit. They worked for 'Mr. Big Shot repaint guy' They end up fired or layed off.


Yeah, to me, a good painter is one that can paint at different levels, (speed, quality, attention to detail; differing levels of prep performance too) depending on what type of job it is. Every job has obstacles for meeting its particular benchmark. A good painter doesn't lose sight of it, and for sure isn't one of those obstacles.


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## dvp (Jun 21, 2010)

CApainter said:


> No one mentioned that a union painter has to go through a certified apprenticeship, which includes classes, before they become journeyman. How many of you have accomplished that?


you are correct on this. i am having to do massive catch up getting the certs i need at age 49. if i had it to do over again i would probably go union, much better wages and benifits. for some reason i thought i was going to be able to make millions with a painting biz in a small town. there must be some awsome union painters out there- whoever did all the casinos in vegas. i probably just got all the rejects asking me for a job.


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## VanDamme (Feb 13, 2010)

johnpaint said:


> This is your chance to sound off about union painters. Are union painters better than non union painters? What is your take on union painters? Are union painters as good or better than non union painters with everyday painting? Has the extra money and perks made them better and more equipped to handle everyday painting or worse? What is your view of union painters?


I started painting at a split shop on the non-union side.

I've served on the board for the non-union apprenticeship program for a few years.

I was a superintendent/estimator at a union shop.

My relationship with the union has involved death threats and baseball bats.

That aside. There's good painters and lazy/sloppy painters in both camps.

At the union shop, we didn't keep any dead wood around very long. We had a very hard working, quality shop.


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## Delta Painting (Apr 27, 2010)

Union shops are democratic forum of comunisisim. (sp?)


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Let's face it, there's both good and bad painters on either side of the union / open shop issue. Most of us here who own our own businesses did so that we can have a measure of control over our professional lives, versus either working for someone else or a union.

One thing I do have to give a nod to the unions for is their training. Does that mean a union trained painter is better than non-union? Not necessarily; just that the training is there. I'm probably as anti-union as one can get, but due mainly to my personal beliefs. I have hired ex-union painters with probably the same measure of results as non-union. Maybe I was wrong to expect more out of them. I think it boils down to the individual. I always preferred to judge a persons worth to my company and customers by their performance and results as opposed to their longevity as a painter. What I paid those who measured up to those expectations was within union pay scale...minus what they would have had to shell out to the union local, etc..


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

VanDamme said:


> My relationship with the union has involved death threats and baseball bats.


When I was young my father left the union ( construction side ). His vehicles were burned, our home broken into and vandalized, and on 2 of his jobs, homes he was building ( new construction ) were burned down, with his trailers parked inside.....The people who did this were caught, and served lengthy prison sentences thankfully. I dont think I have anything positive to say about the unions.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

NCPaint1 said:


> When I was young my father left the union ( construction side ). His vehicles were burned, our home broken into and vandalized, and on 2 of his jobs, homes he was building ( new construction ) were burned down, with his trailers parked inside.....The people who did this were caught, and served lengthy prison sentences thankfully. I dont think I have anything positive to say about the unions.


wow thats intense!


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

TJ Paint said:


> wow thats intense!


Could have been an isolated incident, but it still leaves a bad impression on me.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

NCPaint1 said:


> Could have been an isolated incident, but it still leaves a bad impression on me.


I doubt it. I was on a job (non-union) outside of Newark, NJ. I was up in a lift with another guy when a couple union organizers that looked like they were straight outta the Sopranos approached us. They did not hesitate to let us know we were not welcome in New Jersey and we would simply disappear if we didnt leave town pronto.  I have also had unprovoked physical confrontations and threats from non-union contractors. Like everything, unions have their good and bad. I could also go on and on about non-union contractors hiring illegals, not providing a safe work place, cheating workers out of overtime, and or prevailing wages, etc. I have worked for guys who were bonified criminals and belonged in prison. Some were union contractors and some weren't.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

A little off topic but we just finished a few schools for the Head Start Program and according to the Davis Bacon Act a painters wages must be $12.00 per hour here.WTF!!


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Wolfgang said:


> Mods must be slacking off....or have just given up. LOL


I think we are in agreement with this, lets please do something about this without closing my thread, most of us can play fair here.I think we can see whats going on.


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## Wallpaper Gypsy (Feb 22, 2010)

aaron61 said:


> A little off topic but we just finished a few schools for the Head Start Program and according to the Davis Bacon Act a painters wages must be $12.00 per hour here.WTF!!


That's bad!
Wonder what it would be on Disney property?


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Now you gone and did it. I predict 4 pages in 24 hours..............:whistling2:


Hmmmmm.........:whistling2:


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Retired you just got edited pull it together man. 

Trolling this group is pointless. If you enjoy trying to excite people into a debate take it to a pm please as quite a few seem to want nothing to do with it.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Workaholic said:


> Retired you just got edited pull it together man.
> 
> Trolling this group is pointless. If you enjoy trying to excite people into a debate take it to a pm please as quite a few seem to want nothing to do with it.


You close the gate after the cows got out. :jester:


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> You close the gate after the cows got out. :jester:


Alabama style


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

I always wondered what would happen if woody learned to use spellcheck, became obsessed with google, and lost the catchy "stay frosty" signature. Out of all my dreams, never thought that one would come true. Wouldn't have wanted it to, really. This business lends itself to a rich inner life. I wanna be poor. Stay frosty.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> I always wondered what would happen if woody learned to use spellcheck, became obsessed with google, and lost the catchy "stay frosty" signature. Out of all my dreams, never thought that one would come true. Wouldn't have wanted it to, really. This business lends itself to a rich inner life. I wanna be poor. Stay frosty.


What does Mr. Woody have to do with this thread?


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## [email protected] (Mar 1, 2008)

All I know Is two of our oldest union shop closed up this year. 
One was almost a hundred years old and the other at less 40+ year. 
David


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## Retired (Jul 27, 2010)

johnpaint said:


> What does Mr. Woody have to do with this thread?


Good question. Trolling for non-union painters maybe?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> All I know Is two of our oldest union shop closed up this year.
> One was almost a hundred years old and the other at less 40+ year.
> David


I was reading about that in coatings world. Said some new cat in Cleveland was killin the big shops. Unbelievable.


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## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

vermontpainter said:


> I was reading about that in coatings world. Said some new cat in Cleveland was killin the big shops. Unbelievable.


Was it our very own klaw? And to be on topic I am opposed to unions but they do have their place. Just a matter of principle to be against them I guess. I do not like collective bargaining and such.


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## Retired (Jul 27, 2010)

Workaholic said:


> Retired you just got edited pull it together man.
> 
> Trolling this group is pointless. If you enjoy trying to excite people into a debate take it to a pm please as quite a few seem to want nothing to do with it.


The whole subject of the thread is trolling. If there is no debate on a loaded question like this one, whats the point? I know you are getting beaucoup PMs and probably Emails and wishing you had enough Kleenex to go around but come on man, you are smarter than that. So lets shift gears and turn the question around in favor of the union guys. 

Unions have, by law, lists A, B and C. lists. So in fact, the unions do use non-union painters when the book empties. Look it up and try not to believe all these horror stories some of these guys are making up. I think they may have been seeing Jimmy Hoffa movies on TV one too many times. 

I guess maybe I could do the "right on" schtick. No matter what is said, posted or copied and pasted the response is "right on." Cool for awhile but gets boring and pointless real fast. 

Any body here against Nazis, child molesters, drunk drivers, Republicans or Democrats in general, The LA Raiders, Brad Pitt? Anybody here in the privacy of thier own housetrailers call the President names using the N word.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

I'm really not against unions at all. I feel they have done more good than bad to raise the pay amount across the board union or non union. I guess one of the things I don't care much for is how unions guy's feel they should have all the perks and pay even though they may not have a job with the union.Maybe that is just the ones I have encountered.


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## Retired (Jul 27, 2010)

edited by mod
That's enough for you tonite, take 24 hours off.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Retired said:


> The whole subject of the thread is trolling. If there is no debate on a loaded question like this one, whats the point? I know you are getting beaucoup PMs and probably Emails and wishing you had enough Kleenex to go around but come on man, you are smarter than that. So lets shift gears and turn the question around in favor of the union guys.


The subject of the thread could be subjectified into trolling but knowing John as a regular I read it more as a minor vent or something that was on his mind. 



> Unions have, by law, lists A, B and C. lists. So in fact, the unions do use non-union painters when the book empties. Look it up and try not to believe all these horror stories some of these guys are making up. I think they may have been seeing Jimmy Hoffa movies on TV one too many times.


Giving your union background it makes sense for you to think that the union can do no wrong but I think much like with all organizations there are some bad apples in the mix that sometimes can outshine the good. 
I myself have no problem with unions and think it is a great thing to belong to. Sure you have to pay dues and deal with some politics but if you have good representatives then you always have someone in your corner. 
I like the movie Hoffa btw. 



> I guess maybe I could do the "right on" schtick. No matter what is said, posted or copied and pasted the response is "right on." Cool for awhile but gets boring and pointless real fast.


Nobody is wanting anyone to be fake around here. But to stir the pot for your own entertainment while poking other members with a twig is also frowned upon and many of the members are probably seeing your behavior for what it is. 


> Any body here against Nazis, child molesters, drunk drivers, Republicans or Democrats in general, The LA Raiders, Brad Pitt? Anybody here in the privacy of thier own housetrailers call the President names using the N word.


See this is that stirring thing, simply wanting to start a controversial topic so you can possibly raise someones blood pressure for your own entertainment gets old. 

So rather than try to pick at everything that is said why not just relax settle in and be helpful? Or move on to the next forum to troll the regulars there.


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## VanDamme (Feb 13, 2010)

Retired said:


> edited by mod
> That's enough for you tonite, take 24 hours off.


Oh, he**, Take a year or two off!


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)




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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Workaholic said:


> Retired you just got edited pull it together man.
> 
> Trolling this group is pointless. If you enjoy trying to excite people into a debate take it to a pm please as quite a few seem to want nothing to do with it.


 arty:


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Thanks Mods.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

vermontpainter said:


> I always wondered what would happen if woody learned to use spellcheck, became obsessed with google, and lost the catchy "stay frosty" signature. Out of all my dreams, never thought that one would come true. Wouldn't have wanted it to, really. This business lends itself to a rich inner life. I wanna be poor. Stay frosty.


After reading the verbiage from retired the imagined visage of woody sprung up from some unconscious part of my mind. In other words, when Retired showed up, he sort of reminded me of Woody.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

TJ Paint said:


> After reading the verbiage from retired the imagined visage of woody sprung up from some unconscious part of my mind. In other words, when Retired showed up, he sort of reminded me of Woody.


And you are not the only one that has made that connection!


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Do their ip addy's match?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

I liked him better as retired than as woody. That was quite a dual personality.

What a relief to find out that foil was wrong when he accused Ewing of being retired.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

I was kinda disappointed.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

ewingpainting.net said:


> I was kinda disappointed.


You kind of thought it was cool that foil thought you were retired, didn't you? :jester:


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Did he get a permanent ban? :thumbup:


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Do their ip addy's match?


:no:




Schmidt & Co. said:


> Did he get a permanent ban? :thumbup:


:no:


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

RCP said:


> :no:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

No they are not the same person at all.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Look John, Retired derailed your thread, and it's still being derailed due to him, even when he's banned.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Look John, Retired derailed your thread, and it's still being derailed due to him, even when he's banned.


This thread is derailed, crashed and burned. Thanks Retired.... :no:


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Look Jhon, Retired derailed your thread, and it's still being derailed due to him, even when he's banned.


That's fine it's pretty much run the coarse I think, but kind of a sad case, you have a guy that is retired and all he has left to do is this. I really want to grow older to be a little nicer and not to be in that shape. Pretty sad, is putting it way too mildly.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

John, I was just reading back to your original post and was wondering what prompted your question? Did you recently hire an ex-union painter? Was just curious.......


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

John your a nice, great guy. :thumbup:


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

ewingpainting.net said:


> John your a nice, great guy. :thumbup:


Suck up :jester:


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Suck up :jester:


Nope, I just know Jhon is all.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Nope, I just know Jhon is all.


I agree. Was just razzing ya....


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> John, I was just reading back to your original post and was wondering what prompted your question? Did you recently hire an ex-union painter? Was just curious.......


Sorry man, out talking to the neighbor, yes that would be the case, that and another.No big deal, I'm not bent out of shape on it, but I have learned a few things this summer.


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## skinne9 (Nov 21, 2009)

Great thread. For sure one of my favorites I have read.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

CApainter said:


> No one mentioned that a union painter has to go through a certified apprenticeship, which includes classes, before they become journeyman. How many of you have accomplished that?


Although the classes have some merit, nothing beats doing it in the field day in and day out. At the end of the day, I'd rather have a guy who has been painting all day in the field for two years than one who spent half or less of that time doing the physical work. 

 That said, I've worked with one union painter who was great with a brush, never used a roller longer than 7 inches, (union rule at that time forbid it, wonder why?) and could produce a great amount of work with it while having a decent attitude. He was the only decent one I ever worked with. His union stories were.....um...interesting.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

bikerboy said:


> Although the classes have some merit, nothing beats doing it in the field day in and day out. At the end of the day, I'd rather have a guy who has been painting all day in the field for two years than one who spent half or less of that time doing the physical work.
> 
> That said, I've worked with one union painter who was great with a brush, never used a roller longer than 7 inches, (union rule at that time forbid it, wonder why?) and could produce a great amount of work with it while having a decent attitude. He was the only decent one I ever worked with. His union stories were.....um...interesting.


That's what she said.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

....​


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

bikerboy said:


> ....​


Hey get a load of this, the government is competing with you when it comes to their people they have on unemployment. Ever try to hire and guy but he wants to be paid under the table so he can still collect his unemployment? I had a guy tell me that they told him that he doesn't have to except a lower paying job than the one he lost also, they will just keep paying him every week, plus it keeps getting extended.these people don't want to go off it, and the stste just keeps paying them. Are we in for trouble or what?


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Had that happen last fall. Also had guys who didn't want to pay child support ask to be paid under the table. They don't get hired.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

bikerboy said:


> Although the classes have some merit, nothing beats doing it in the field day in and day out. At the end of the day, I'd rather have a guy who has been painting all day in the field for two years than one who spent half or less of that time doing the physical work.


A Apprentice is required to have so many feild hours. for example, the apprenticeship program I am a member of has 7 levels of apprenticeship. Each level requires 1000 hrs of on the job training to advance to the next level, along with passing the test for which ever level. The actual training is in the field learning side by side with a journeyman. Supervised on the job training and academic instruction in the classroom. Learning the why along with the how of the trade. The focus in the classes is safety, reading plans, employee rights, employer rights, chemical in different coatings, application methods, uses for different painting tools, etc.

They also require the use of the English language, reading, writing and communicating. Along with a high school diploma, GED or they must pass a simple test that includes arithmetic, reading and writing. 

In order to get your actual journeyman card you must complete the 7 levels of apprenticeship. A employer can claim a employee as a journeyman, some may claim they are a journeyman due to this. But in reality they have not completed the course or got their 7000 hours on the field training. So if you have someone that is claiming journeyman, ask to them to provide you prof with the journeyman card. This showing they actually have at least 7000 hours of ON THE FIELD TRAINING, that's at least 3 1/2 years of experience not including the in class training. :thumbsup:


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## Retired (Jul 27, 2010)

ewingpainting.net said:


> A Apprentice is required to have so many feild hours. for example, the apprenticeship program I am a member of has 7 levels of apprenticeship. Each level requires 1000 hrs of on the job training to advance to the next level, along with passing the test for which ever level. The actual training is in the field learning side by side with a journeyman. Supervised on the job training and academic instruction in the classroom. Learning the why along with the how of the trade. The focus in the classes is safety, reading plans, employee rights, employer rights, chemical in different coatings, application methods, uses for different painting tools, etc.
> 
> They also require the use of the English language, reading, writing and communicating. Along with a high school diploma, GED or they must pass a simple test that includes arithmetic, reading and writing.
> 
> In order to get your actual journeyman card you must complete the 7 levels of apprenticeship. A employer can claim a employee as a journeyman, some may claim they are a journeyman due to this. But in reality they have not completed the course or got their 7000 hours on the field training. So if you have someone that is claiming journeyman, ask to them to provide you prof with the journeyman card. This showing they actually have at least 7000 hours of ON THE FIELD TRAINING, that's at least 3 1/2 years of experience not including the in class training. :thumbsup:


 


It should also be pointed out that the classroom portion of a union apprenticeship is conducted after work hours. This again by law, set in 1937. Apprentices also must not be assigned repetitious work exceeding three month intervals. 

An option if an apprentice shows interest in or has an affinity for special skills, with the instructors permission, he or she may attend journeyman classes that are held on Saturdays excluding the mandatory skill enhancement and safety training portions of the PATI program. (Painters Advanced Training Institute)


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