# rolling paint and flashing



## bluegrassdan (May 8, 2015)

Painted a room and the next day when the sun was shining on it I could see lines from floor to ceiling. Could the paint be drying so fast that each time I dipped my roller the new area rolled flashes with the previous area? I won't say which brand I am using but it is a top name and this is my line of work. The lines are not build up from the edge of the roller.


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## Jazz_Painter (Feb 22, 2015)

This issue has been discussed here a few times and here's what I've concluded so far :

In my experience, when you roll latex paint, if you look at it on the side with a strong light hitting at a side angle, you'll see roller lines, no matter what you do. These paint dry so fast they start to set while you're applying the next dip. What can help is to not be shy to apply it relatively thick, then do a one pass down (or one pass up) on each of your columns of applied paint, with the roller facing the same direction. If you see lines when looking at your wall facing it, then you have a problem, but on the side with light coming from the side, (please correct me if I'm wrong) it's the imperfection we have to live with. A good sealing primer will help letting your paint have much open time as possible, and using extender/fleotrol will help too. The more sheen, the more you'll see them too.

Now I've had this issue with all of, for example BM paints from their lowest to highest grade (yes even K 508, but it's less of a problem with it than other ceiling paints), and all other companies latex paints. It's not that BM, SW, or whatever are less than other paints in that regards, it's just the nature of latex IMO. Again, correct me if I'm wrong.


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

I guess paint can dry so fast that you are literally rolling on semi dry paint causing dry roll? If you saw this was the case, add water or extender to the paint then keep going. Or change the roller cover to get you more paint on the wall faster, like microfiber. Sounds like a combo of product and applier.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Gardz gardz gardz gardz gardz*



bluegrassdan said:


> Painted a room and the next day when the sun was shining on it I could see lines from floor to ceiling. Could the paint be drying so fast that each time I dipped my roller the new area rolled flashes with the previous area? I won't say which brand I am using but it is a top name and this is my line of work. The lines are not build up from the edge of the roller.


Dan, as you can see by the title of my post, I recommend Gardz, at least in certain instances. Gardz was originally (as pointed out here several times by DeArch) a concrete sealer that Scotch paint in California reformulated (calling it Draw-Tite) to use for repairing damaged drywall. Zinsser then copied Draw-Tite and called it Gardz.

Gardz seals porous surfaces and helps to get an even sheen without flashing with any paint that has a sheen. This includes many of today's flat sheen (read: scrubbable) paints as they now seem to have a sheen. If you have a wall with flat or otherwise porous paint or a wall that has patching spots, the water in the paint will soak into the old paint surface, sometimes slow and sometimes fast, depending on how porous the surface is. Any roller lines that you make will have the water sucked out of them before you can get back to smooth them out. Then you will have to go back and sand them down after the paint has dried. Gardz, when properly applied, eliminates the water in your fresh paint being sucked into the surface you are painting. This means that you will be able to keep a wet edge much easier. It also means that when you roll back to smooth out roller lines, they will still be wet and easy to smooth out.

The trick to applying Gardz is to get enough on the surface you are sealing. If you are sealing new drywall or sealing a wall that has numerous spackled patches, you will want to put 2 coats on to get an even sheen to the Gardz. If you only put one coat over really porous surfaces, you will get flashing. In the case of spackled patches, you might want to just hit the patches twice if the wall has an eggshell or higher sheen on it to begin with, or once if the wall is already flat, then "Gardz" the whole wall after the patches have dried. The good news is that the second coat goes on much faster and easier than the first coat.

If you are rolling ceilings or walls that are going to get light reflecting off of them in a way that will show every imperfection in the rolling, I can think of no better surface to roll over than 2 coats of Gardz in order to get an even sheen and the least amount of roller lines. As a matter of fact, I can think of no prepared surface better to roll paint onto than one with 2 coats of Gardz on it. Watch to see how many here agree with this.

I did a job in a round high rise in Chicago where each unit is pie shaped and the outside walls of every room are ceiling to floor windows. We had one continuous wall that went from an inside bathroom into a bedroom all the way to the window. I painted it several times as the GC wanted me to and every time it flashed or did something that could easily be seen. I finally told him to fix the wall however he wanted, then I would paint it as I felt best. After he left for the day I applied 2 coats of Gardz, then 2 coats of Behr Premium Plus flat (that is what the contractor uses). When he saw the wall in the morning sun, it was just fine. 

For some reason, that GC still fights me on using Gardz as he thinks it is a waste of time and an extra step. The question you have to ask yourself is how many times do you want to repaint a wall that gets too much light that shows up every little defect? I have answered that question for myself.

As I am fond of asking every time a Thread like this comes up, if anyone here knows of a better product to prepare a ceiling or wall for no problem painting, please let us all know so we can all improve our work. 

futtyos


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## bluegrassdan (May 8, 2015)

Is it the environmental issues that make the new paints dry so fast? Really frustrating. I have been using BM ultra spec 500 flat for ceilings but just did a big ceiling and it looks terrible. Flashes and seems to be a bit of shine. I have used the k508 but here in canada it is almost $50 a gallon. Might have to go back to it.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

bluegrassdan said:


> Painted a room and the next day when the sun was shining on it I could see lines from floor to ceiling. Could the paint be drying so fast that each time I dipped my roller the new area rolled flashes with the previous area? I won't say which brand I am using but it is a top name and this is my line of work. The lines are not build up from the edge of the roller.


 If those lines are roughly a 1/4 inch wide, they are likely left by roller sleeve edges. Technique will help prevent this, along with beveling the sleeve edges.


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## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

2 coats, maybe 3 are needed with some paints and some colors. I've never had this problem with high quality paint when applying AT LEAST 2 coats. One coat just doesn't cut it.


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## Exactoman (Mar 28, 2013)

bluegrassdan said:


> Is it the environmental issues that make the new paints dry so fast? Really frustrating. I have been using BM ultra spec 500 flat for ceilings but just did a big ceiling and it looks terrible. Flashes and seems to be a bit of shine. I have used the k508 but here in canada it is almost $50 a gallon. Might have to go back to it.


Use Ben Moore waterborne ceiling paint. Perfection.


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

CApainter said:


> If those lines are roughly a 1/4 inch wide, they are likely left by roller sleeve edges. Technique will help prevent this, along with beveling the sleeve edges.


This graphic is awesome. Very realistic. For a moment, I thought I was looking at a photograph of a roller cover and frame. 

Anyway, it is a good visual of how to properly roll and lay off. Easier to illustrate than explain.


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## bluegrassdan (May 8, 2015)

Its not lines like I said. It is strips that flash. I dont leave ridges


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

bluegrassdan said:


> Its not lines like I said. It is strips that flash. I dont leave ridges


Then you need to move faster.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

We had this in an entry this winter that was 24' tall and only 5.5' wide with a window letting light in. No way we were rolling slow enough for it to set, but due to the narrow dimensions it just was not possible to tip off in on continuous stroke. Trying to do that really did not help compared to not tipping off, just a different pattern of those lines. Of course, looking on straight did not show any lines, but from the side toward the window they show. Aura eggshell for us.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

Probably need another coat for starters. If it's "drying" that fast amd you're loading it, it's probably getting sucked up.best guess is you're going over flat ... And roll it off in one direction (this matters most when working with dark colors).


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## mDUB562 (Jul 31, 2012)

I've found that with higher quality products like Aura and Emerald that experienced painters can often times have more problems than home owners.

First, don't use sheep skin rollers. These rollers don't work with 0 VOC paints. The animal fibers rely on the voc's to soften and work properly. 

Lastly, these products dry from the inside out. They require a nice thick coat. People without a painting background seem to slop it on the wall just fine. Don't push them around or work them. Just get it on the wall as quickly and evenly as possible so that it won't sag. Let the product do the work for you. Whatever you do don't go back over it once you've got it even.

None of these tricks will work if the resin is sinking into the wall but if you apply the first coat properly I can't imagine a second coat sinking into the wall. Gaurdz is great for damaged drywall but not needed on non-porous sound surfaces. 

Personally, I work in 3 foot sections after I get to the end I flip the roller around and start at the beginning go over it one more time and on to the next section. It turns out great and the biggest complaint I get is that the wall is too smooth.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

bluegrassdan said:


> Its not lines like I said. It is strips that flash. I dont leave ridges





bluegrassdan said:


> Painted a room and the next day when the sun was shining on it *I could see lines from floor to ceiling.* Could the paint be drying so fast that each time I dipped my roller the new area rolled flashes with the previous area? I won't say which brand I am using but it is a top name and this is my line of work. The lines are not build up from the edge of the roller.


Now, I see why I thought you said lines.

I like DUB's explanatioin. I think Aura can get all nasty on ya if you keep playing with it too long. It also seems like a paint that will betray you if you don't keep a wet edge. That's why I stand by my suggestion that if you can't stretch its open time, you have to move faster.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Roller becomes mohair*



bluegrassdan said:


> Painted a room and the next day when the sun was shining on it I could see lines from floor to ceiling. Could the paint be drying so fast that each time I dipped my roller the new area rolled flashes with the previous area? I won't say which brand I am using but it is a top name and this is my line of work. The lines are not build up from the edge of the roller.


Dan, here is a thought you probably considered. I do work for a GC in a round high rise in Chicago where the outside wall is floor to ceiling windows, lots of light! He only wants me using 1/4" nap rollers. I tried every good brand I could find. They were so thin that I did not have to bevel most of their edges.

My story involves the concept of mohair, which means, as far as paint roller sleeves go, it rolls VERY smooth in one direction and VERY rough in the opposite, so that when finishing a section, you have to backroll in only one direction for the smooth finish. Sort of like petting a cat or a dog in one direction that is smooth and the other roughs up the hair.

One roller in particular (I don't remember if it was a Purdy or something else) was leaving strange wide lines that were half as wide as the roller sleeve. I started paying attention to what was going on and found that the roller sleeve had turned into a sort of double mohair sleeve. While rolling up the wall, half of the sleeve would roll smooth like a mohair and the other half would roll rough like the wrong way to finish with a mohair. When I rolled down the wall, the 2 halves of the roller would reverse, the one half that previously rolled smooth now rolling rough and the other......... you get the picture.

I was not noticing the roller sleeve itself at first because I was concentrating on looking at the paint on the wall.

I tossed that roller sleeve after I got to the end of the wall! I did finally find a roller sleeve that allowed me to roll almost as smooth as a 1/4" and in both directions without the reverse mohair effect. This roller also let me load twice as much paint. It is the 5/16" micro plush by Wooster.

Just another 2 cents.

futtyos


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Great point futtyos.

As much as it is time consuming to lay off a roller in one direction, it does insure a consistant finish. Some paints require this more than others. For instance, BM's Regal Pearl can be laid off in both directions and still provide a consistant sheen and finish. However, when there is airflow, or heat that excellerates the dry time, I have to lay off in one direction.


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## Crackshot (Dec 29, 2015)

dip roller put it on the wall. dip again put it on the wall. dip again put it on the wall. get a massive area covered. then lay it off. I see noobs taking there time for ever trying to lay of something after 2 dips and then when they put their 3rd on just ruin all the lay of the 1st two... just get a good 10m2 or more on there first. dont even try lay it off till u got **** loads on there.


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