# Busted



## chrisn

Anyone get busted yet?:whistling2:


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## Rcon

chrisn said:


> Anyone get busted yet?:whistling2:


A few times I recall...:lol:


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## chrisn

Wellllllllll now I ment busted by the EPA or who ever is regulating this lead crap, not what happened in the 70's:blink:


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## Rcon

chrisn said:


> Wellllllllll now I ment busted by the EPA or who ever is regulating this lead crap, not what happened in the 70's:blink:


Don't recall much about the 70's....though that could be because I wasn't around yet...:jester:


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## premierpainter

Lost a big job to a "friend of the family painter" who is not certified. I want to blow the whistle....but to who? NJ has 2 people that work for the EPA on this matter. I guess they will get away with sanding down the whole house. We charged a lot more due to lead, and guess what...they didn't and didn't use us.
If this is a trend, this is bad news for the EPA and this "new" law


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## Marion

That's one of the major down-sides of this mess. If we bid jobs to meet EPA's new requirements, we want get the work. Period.


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## DeanV

In a few days, I will have three projects bid out that will be affected by the rule. I am awaiting test kits so I can test for lead and adjust the price if needed. I am sure it will not be needed, since I will not get any of the jobs. Too much prepwork needed.


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## aaron61

premierpainter said:


> Lost a big job to a "friend of the family painter" who is not certified. I want to blow the whistle....but to who? NJ has 2 people that work for the EPA on this matter. I guess they will get away with sanding down the whole house. We charged a lot more due to lead, and guess what...they didn't and didn't use us.
> If this is a trend, this is bad news for the EPA and this "new" law


We have allready lost 3 nice projects in the exact same scenario.Customer asked why I was the only contractor bringing it up if it is such a big deal and actually accused me of trying to work an angle.They could care less about lead.The only ones who are going to want this is the stay at home soccer mom who has enough money to pay for the extras.


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## S.Indiana

My B.M. rep told me today that they're paying people to turn in contractors that aren't licensed working on homes... anyone hear this? He said $10,000 ..... theres no way


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## RCP

premierpainter said:


> Lost a big job to a "friend of the family painter" who is not certified. I want to blow the whistle....but to who? NJ has 2 people that work for the EPA on this matter. I guess they will get away with sanding down the whole house. We charged a lot more due to lead, and guess what...they didn't and didn't use us.
> If this is a trend, this is bad news for the EPA and this "new" law


Just like unlicensed and uninsured lowballers, this will certainly be an issue. 



DeanV said:


> In a few days, I will have three projects bid out that will be affected by the rule. I am awaiting test kits so I can test for lead and adjust the price if needed. I am sure it will not be needed, since I will not get any of the jobs. Too much prepwork needed.


Do you think in some cases it may be better to assume lead and proceed rather than test? 



aaron61 said:


> We have allready lost 3 nice projects in the exact same scenario.Customer asked why I was the only contractor bringing it up if it is such a big deal and actually accused me of trying to work an angle.They could care less about lead.The only ones who are going to want this is the stay at home soccer mom who has enough money to pay for the extras.


Hopefully the EPA will start doing a better job of educating consumers. 



S.Indiana said:


> My B.M. rep told me today that they're paying people to turn in contractors that aren't licensed working on homes... anyone hear this? He said $10,000 ..... theres no way


There have ben rumors, but I have not seen anything official. In fact the EPA says it is putting more emphasis (in the first year) on contractor education rather than fines. But they have hired a lot of new employees!


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## aaron61

S.Indiana said:


> My B.M. rep told me today that they're paying people to turn in contractors that aren't licensed working on homes... anyone hear this? He said $10,000 ..... theres no way


This just seems wrong to me!!!! Are they really trying to do something about lead dust or just bust contractors & generate revenue???????
You don't really have to answer that........
The only REAL way to approach this,If they are serious, would be to run commercial after commercial,after commercial,after radio spot,after,magazine spots, showing kids all F'ed up from lead poisoning.Otherwise the consumer isn't going to care and it will only be another burden on those trying to work within the law! IMHO


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## RCP

Check out this website, I have seen several ads of paint being poured on cereal!
Also check out the search for renovators box, the map feature is pretty neat, not sure how up to date.


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## salestrainer

Finished a job yesterday in a 1940's cottage, I bid this job in January, just got the O.K. couple of weeks ago. Anyway I waited till I was pulling out of driveway before I put my yard sign up, lol! I am waiting on my SW class to start, will not do anymore pre-78 till then. That's about 5% of my jobs anyway, not a fan of old houses. My SW rep said as long as you are signed up for class, they would probably overlook it anyway.


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## chrisn

salestrainer said:


> Finished a job yesterday in a 1940's cottage, I bid this job in January, just got the O.K. couple of weeks ago. Anyway I waited till I was pulling out of driveway before I put my yard sign up, lol! I am waiting on my SW class to start, will not do anymore pre-78 till then. That's about 5% of my jobs anyway, not a fan of old houses. My SW rep said as long as you are signed up for class, they would probably overlook it anyway.


 
not busted but should have been:whistling2::jester:


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## DeanV

Is it better not to test? Well, then we have to use the 20% plus higher rate and not test. There is no way you will land the job then. The only way to do it for a normal rate is to prove there is no lead.


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## johnpaint

This is such a big joke and the homeowner could care less most of the time.I have turned down more jobs on lead this year than ever and now I'm getting tired of explaining anymore. I think from now on my answer is: No I don't do lead homes at all, thanks for calling.


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## aaron61

salestrainer said:


> Finished a job yesterday in a 1940's cottage, I bid this job in January, just got the O.K. couple of weeks ago. Anyway I waited till I was pulling out of driveway before I put my yard sign up, lol! I am waiting on my SW class to start, will not do anymore pre-78 till then. That's about 5% of my jobs anyway, not a fan of old houses. My SW rep said as long as you are signed up for class, they would probably overlook it anyway.


Only if you are throwin down plastic,wearin cheap paper suits,cleanin up with baby wipes & ropin your job off like a crime scene....then they might let you slide


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## johnpaint

aaron61 said:


> Only if you are throwin down plastic,wearin cheap paper suits,cleanin up with baby wipes & ropin your job off like a crime scene....then they might let you slide


Don't forget posting all around that this site is a lead hazard.Why don't we shoot off flares and fly 1000 foot balloons.


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## salestrainer

aaron61 said:


> Only if you are throwin down plastic,wearin cheap paper suits,cleanin up with baby wipes & ropin your job off like a crime scene....then they might let you slide


I do wear throw away coveralls, put plastic down....I probably do 95% of what I hear should be done....but I am not legal ......yet!


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## Capt-sheetrock

premierpainter said:


> Lost a big job to a "friend of the family painter" who is not certified. I want to blow the whistle....but to who? NJ has 2 people that work for the EPA on this matter. I guess they will get away with sanding down the whole house. We charged a lot more due to lead, and guess what...they didn't and didn't use us.
> If this is a trend, this is bad news for the EPA and this "new" law


I was brought home from the hospital and placed in a crib painted with lead based paint.

Are you saying you want the GOV to stop poeple from bidding again ya??

Ask yourself, IF lead based paint is really that deadly,,, how did you survive???

Sorry in advance, but some of us are not that enviormentally friendly


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## RCP

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I was brought home from the hospital and placed in a crib painted with lead based paint.


Well, that explains a lot!

I think the whole RRP is overkill also, but a lot of the rules have been in place (and not followed) thru OHSA for a long time. Incidents of Lead poisoning have dropped considerably, naturally, and most cases reported are not caused by us, but by DIYers.
Check these stats, kind of like killing flies with a rhino gun huh!



Maybe if the industry as a whole (meaning paint mfrs as well) had done more......


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## Capt-sheetrock

RCP said:


> Well, that explains a lot!
> 
> I think the whole RRP is overkill also, but a lot of the rules have been in place (and not followed) thru OHSA for a long time. Incidents of Lead poisoning have dropped considerably, naturally, and most cases reported are not caused by us, but by DIYers.
> Check these stats, kind of like killing flies with a rhino gun huh!
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe if the industry as a whole (meaning paint mfrs as well) had done more......


You may be right,,, lol

Heres a tip for asbestos pop-corn

Since styrofom was put in texture at the same time that they quit using asbestos. When you check a ceiling, just take a 5 in one and scrape the ceiling, if it revels brown spots (cork) you have asbestos, If it leaves white (no cork) you don't have asbestos.

Don't matter much to me, since i sprayed most of that asbestoes,,, 

I know it ain't all that its supposed to be !!!!!


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## PatsPainting

I have bid on a few jobs that are pre -1978. I don't say anything about the new law when I go there, I just figure it will freak them out, no sense on that. If they call me back and ask why is my price is higher then the others then I will explain to them why. I will also try to throw it back to them that they can be fined too if they hire a non certified workers to do their painting. I know this is not the case but fook it. lol

Pat


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## CApainter

The painting industry, with the guidance of OSHA, had all the opportunities to teach workers how to protect themselves and the public from proven hazardous materials. Unfortunately, the bone heads of the industry who thought it was too p..sy, to wear respirators, gloves, or any of the other recommended PPE, can take credit for having to have the government step in and show us how it's done. Thanks morons.


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## Capt-sheetrock

CApainter said:


> The painting industry, with the guidance of OSHA, had all the opportunities to teach workers how to protect themselves and the public from proven hazardous materials. Unfortunately, the bone heads of the industry who thought it was too p..sy, to wear respirators, gloves, or any of the other recommended PPE, can take credit for having to have the government step in and show us how it's done. Thanks morons.


 Gee as a newbie and a lowballer,,,, Are you saying that the Government is the answer and that without them we would die???? LOL,heehhee, etc etc

Again, I was placed in a crib with lead based paint, and sprayed asbestoes texture for YEARS without a mask. 

It ain't all its cracked up to be,,, okay,,, its just a GOV thing,,,, 

I'm 56, still don't wear a respirator when I spray. Just saying, not ALL PC things are actually true.


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## Capt-sheetrock

Oh yeah, I forgot to add,, if you live long enough,,, 

SOMETHING is gonna kill ya


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## CApainter

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Gee as a newbie and a lowballer,,,, Are you saying that the Government is the answer and that without them we would die???? LOL,heehhee, etc etc
> 
> Again, I was placed in a crib with lead based paint, and sprayed asbestoes texture for YEARS without a mask.
> 
> It ain't all its cracked up to be,,, okay,,, its just a GOV thing,,,,
> 
> I'm 56, still don't wear a respirator when I spray. Just saying, not ALL PC things are actually true.


No. I'm saying that since ignorance rules the day ("I'm 56, still don't wear a respirator when I spray. Just saying, not ALL PC things are actually true.") the rest of us suffer the intrusion of government.


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## Capt-sheetrock

CApainter said:


> No. I'm saying that since ignorance rules the day ("I'm 56, still don't wear a respirator when I spray. Just saying, not ALL PC things are actually true.") the rest of us suffer the intrusion of government.


Your saying that cause I don't buy into the PC junk or wear a resperator, your life has been made less ????

Hows that??? I maybe dumber than I thought I was,,, how have I effected you???


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## CApainter

It's public perception. If your viewed as someone who could care less about your own personal protection, how can you be trusted to have concern for theirs.

That's when Gubment has to step in , unfortunately.


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## Capt-sheetrock

CApainter said:


> It's public perception. If your viewed as someone who could care less about your own personal protection, how can you be trusted to have concern for theirs.
> 
> That's when Gubment has to step in , unfortunately.


I see your point, however I don't think government contoll is the answer. 
It seems that the government is involved too much in our personal lives already. Others think the opposite.


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## CApainter

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I see your point, however I don't think government contoll is the answer.
> It seems that the government is involved too much in our personal lives already. Others think the opposite.


I believe the rrp regulations have to do more with the publics perception of unqualified workers tearing through houses without any concern, or knowledge 
of the dangers associated with hazardous materials like asbestos and lead. This includes legitimate as well as illegitimate contractors.

Mesothelioma and lead poisoning really do occur. Are you likely to get either one considering the minute ppm that are regulated? Probably not. 

But why should I be exposed to these hazards because of someone else's wreckless behavior.

Workers in the construction industry need to change the culture of macho bullsh!t that gets people ill or killed! 
And it starts with us.

Thanks for the debate Captain.


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## bikerboy

CApainter said:


> It's public perception. If your viewed as someone who could care less about your own personal protection, how can you be trusted to have concern for theirs.
> 
> That's when Gubment has to step in , unfortunately.


 
You should have the *FREEDOM* to care less about your protection (as long as it does not hurt another), and others should* RESPECT* that choice. No need for the goverment to get involved because it ain't about safety as much as it is about *CONTROL*.

If they (the goverment) were really concerned about personal safety, why do we have cigarettes, booze, bungee jumping, cars, bicycles, cell phones (radiation?), alternative medicine, allowed to expose yourself to the sun, sugar, salt, saturated fats, coffee, airplanes, public pools and beaches, high school sports, sharp instruments, ladders, bb guns, guns at all, spray paint, Kilz, contact cement. (You know I could go on and on)


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## aaron61

bikerboy said:


> You should have the *FREEDOM* to care less about your protection (as long as it does not hurt another), and others should* RESPECT* that choice. No need for the goverment to get involved because it ain't about safety as much as it is about *CONTROL*.
> 
> If they (the goverment) were really concerned about personal safety, why do we have cigarettes, booze, bungee jumping, cars, bicycles, cell phones (radiation?), alternative medicine, allowed to expose yourself to the sun, sugar, salt, saturated fats, coffee, airplanes, public pools and beaches, high school sports, sharp instruments, ladders, bb guns, guns at all, spray paint, Kilz, contact cement. (You know I could go on and on)


Oh they are working on all the above.Salt is the latest thing


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## chrisn

They could certainly do away with the Kilz and not hurt my feelings:whistling2:


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## OraarO

No Chris,

Leave the Kilz alone! (I do), but let the homeowners use it so they have to call me and you later to fix the problems they didn't by using it.:thumbup:


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## VanDamme

*"Oh they are working on all the above.Salt is the latest thing"*

I don't want to get political, but give this administration a couple more years and all the items BB mentioned above just might be illegal.


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## Capt-sheetrock

OraarO said:


> No Chris,
> 
> Leave the Kilz alone! (I do), but let the homeowners use it so they have to call me and you later to fix the problems they didn't by using it.:thumbup:


yeah, I know,,,, after using kilz of years, I let you guys talk me into using Zinser, ( I must admit I broke out the respirator for that stuff), after that experience I went back to kiz. 

Really, I found that zinsser is worst then kilz for cieling stains, JMO

Heres a drywaller tip (I know worthless here) if you have a stained cieling. If you take pure bleach, put it in a bucket and roll it on the stains 24 hrs before you paint, It really makes the "brand" of sealer a mute point


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## BC_Painter

Capt-sheetrock said:


> yeah, I know,,,, after using kilz of years, I let you guys talk me into using Zinser, ( I must admit I broke out the respirator for that stuff), after that experience I went back to kiz.
> 
> Really, I found that zinsser is worst then kilz for cieling stains, JMO
> 
> Heres a drywaller tip (I know worthless here) if you have a stained cieling. If you take pure bleach, put it in a bucket and roll it on the stains 24 hrs before you paint, It really makes the "brand" of sealer a mute point



I mentioned this once here actually, was told this from a builder.

Are you able to warranty these stains longer than they can see your tail lights?


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## Capt-sheetrock

BC_Painter said:


> I mentioned this once here actually, was told this from a builder.
> 
> Are you able to warranty these stains longer than they can see your tail lights?


I warranty my work period.


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## BC_Painter

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I warranty my work period.


I had a builder come to a house that had water stains and spray some bleach on, got rid of the water stain just fine but after time it did end up coming back and we were called in for paint.

Haven't dealt with it much but the morei know the better :thumbup:


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## boman47k

BC_Painter said:


> I had a builder come to a house that had water stains and spray some bleach on, got rid of the water stain just fine but after time it did end up coming back and we were called in for paint.
> 
> Haven't dealt with it much but the morei know the better :thumbup:


Maybe the source was not dealt with?

I have only used bleach ( with water) on dw for mold/mildew. The rinsed with plain water.


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## BC_Painter

boman47k said:


> Maybe the source was not dealt with?
> 
> I have only used bleach ( with water) on dw for mold/mildew. The rinsed with plain water.


Water problem was fixed, stain was there for years before we came in to repaint with no change

And this was for a waterstain, not for mold/mildey


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## boman47k

I really never would have thought od pure bleach for water stains, so I can't comment on that.


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## Capt-sheetrock

BC_Painter said:


> I had a builder come to a house that had water stains and spray some bleach on, got rid of the water stain just fine but after time it did end up coming back and we were called in for paint.
> 
> Haven't dealt with it much but the morei know the better :thumbup:


I think I dindn't make that too clear,, I meant that you come in and treat the stains with pure bleach 24 hrs before you paint it with whatever stainblocker you preferr.

The point of that is, kill the mold before you block it


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## BC_Painter

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I think I dindn't make that too clear,, I meant that you come in and treat the stains with pure bleach 24 hrs before you paint it with whatever stainblocker you preferr.
> 
> The point of that is, kill the mold before you block it


All this guy did was spritz it and take off, no painting at all :thumbsup:


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## Capt-sheetrock

BC_Painter said:


> All this guy did was spritz it and take off, no painting at all :thumbsup:


I think there are two differant hings involved here. IF you don't stop the source of the mold, you will see it again. However, if you are hired to "remove the satin and re-paint" then you do that, and THAT is not addressing the mold problem.

Even with ZInnser, you still haven't addressed the mold problem, just covered it up,,,, for a bit


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## boman47k

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I think I dindn't make that too clear,, I meant that you come in and treat the stains with pure bleach 24 hrs before you paint it with whatever stainblocker you preferr.
> 
> The point of that is, kill the mold before you block it


Okay, for some reason, I thought you were talking about just water stains. If you *kill* the mold, the stain is *gone* (if you can get the stain out), and the source has been fixed, why block it?

Jk'ing, I do basically the same thing with bleach and water mixture. So far, it seems to do the trick.
Years ago, my old house was uninsulated and still is in a a couple of rooms. I had installed an infra red ventless, and one of the bdrms on the south side would get terrible mold on the southern most wall. This is the way I handled it. Finally had central unit installed. I miss the lower utility bill but not the mold.


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## Capt-sheetrock

boman47k said:


> Okay, for some reason, I thought you were talking about just water stains. If you *kill* the mold, the stain is *gone* (if you can get the stain out), and the source has been fixed, why block it?
> 
> Jk'ing, I do basically the same thing with bleach and water mixture. So far, it seems to do the trick.
> Years ago, my old house was uninsulated and still is in a a couple of rooms. I had installed an infra red ventless, and one of the bdrms on the south side would get terrible mold on the southern most wall. This is the way I handled it. Finally had central unit installed. I miss the lower utility bill but not the mold.


Thats the truth of it man. If we don't stop the source, we are destained to re-peat at some point. I have jsut found over the years, that treating the stain with bleach, and then blocking it, does awhole lot more than just throwing money at it by buying the most exspense and stinkiest stain blocker I could buy.:thumbsup:


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