# Time estimate on painting job



## Bethany (Oct 3, 2015)

I was hired to paint a 1,000 sq ft apartment recently, and although I'm not new to painting, it's been awhile since I've done any large jobs, and the first time I've done such a large job by myself (originally they agreed to a second person, but decided I couldn't have help after the first day). It took me a total of 9 days and 98 hours. Even though I worked as fast as I could, my clients are upset. They said that I masked ridiculously slow and the job took much longer than it should have. I'm wondering if anyone could give me any feedback about how long a job like this should have taken.

I started by filling and sanding around 50 holes in the walls, and then cleaned the walls which were covered in cobwebs, and laden with grease in the kitchen. I took all the doors off the hinges, as well as a few cabinet doors, and then had to move them from room to room as I sprayed. I figured a job like that would ultimately be quicker if I rented a paint sprayer, even though that would mean masking off everything except the areas to be painted. They wanted all the ceilings painted white, and the rest of the duplex painted three other colors. This meant spraying the ceilings, then masking off the ceilings (which took forever by myself, having to mask a few feet, then get down from the stool, move it with my one free hand and get back up on the stool). This also meant cleaning out the paint prayer between each color. The paint sprayer that I rented ended up malfuctioning as well which added a day of talking to the rental center and getting it working again, and then redoing the bathroom. I did get the price of the sprayer discounted 50% because of it. They knew before I started that it was my first time doing a job of that size and that I hadn't don't much painting lately and still hired me for $15/hour, which is much less than they would pay elsewhere. However, they still aren't willing to pay me for all the hours worked. I'm simply not sure what I should charge, but I think I should base it on how long it took. Any feedback is very appreciated!


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

No matter how long it took you, at $15 an hour they are getting a hell of a deal.
Also, did you have a contract?

You don't say if you had any doors or trim to do, or closets. Personally, I would have just brushed and rolled everything rather than fooled around with a sprayer.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

They don't sound like clients. They sound like an employer. If they were clients, then refer to your signed contract regarding the details. Since I'm pretty sure you have no contract, I'm not sure what to tell you. Welcome to the business side of painting.


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

:no: Oh my!! Where to start, where to start? I'm at a loss, anyone, someone jump in here.


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## Jdawg2347 (Sep 15, 2015)

I'm with the other guy brush and roller would've saved you alot of time.


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

I will say 3 things. 

1. I would not do that apartment for $1500.00 (which is what your hours add up to).

2. There are companies that would do it for less than $500.00 and probably be done in 1 day. 

3. I can do a 1600 sf house, 1 color/sheen, in about 60 hours by myself if there is no major repairs- Normal nail holes, caulking some trim, flooring staying. No idea if that's fast or slow, but it's faster than what you just did. 



Hope that helps.


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

50 nails holes...lol that what, 15 minutes? An hour at best to remove outlet covers....

Dude, you are in way over your head. 9 days? Are you serious? If you can't do an apartment a day you are sunk.

Be glad you STILL have a job after your first unit.

We do section 8 housing, I WISH nail holes was my only worry haha.

Graffiti, crayons, candle wax, incense residue, dryer lint, grease, hairspray, the occasional body fluids, medical waste, nicotine damage of every degree, wallpaper applied with Elmer ' s glue, tack paper on walls, thumbtacks, staples, stickers, lipstick, need I go on? 

And yet none, not a single one of the aforementioned items slows us down. You learn very quickly the power of fast drying primer.

You need to step back and take a long hard look if you really want to enter the production painting world.


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## Bethany (Oct 3, 2015)

Thank you all for your feedback. Yes, there were two closets, and I had to mask all the trim, and everything else. I wasn't sure if rolling everything would've been quicker, especially with all the ceilings. I know I could've done minimal masking that way, and that would've saved me a big chunk of time. But because it's been years since I've painted more than a room or two, I honestly don't have the strength I used to have to roll a room super quickly. I figured spraying would've been easier because of that. I really wish I had asked for your advice in advance! 
Hines Painting, 60 hours seems reasonable for a 1600 sq ft house...if I had been doing this awhile and was used to painting quickly. But I haven't painted more than a room in years, so I there was somewhat of a learning curve I had to deal with at first. I'm sure there are plenty of companies that would paint that apartment in one day for $500. They're probably the same companies that do most of the apartments I've lived in, the ones where they only paint half the wall and do an all together awful job. Am I right? Maybe not. But I'm guessing they come as a crew and not one person. I was going for a really nice paint job, despite being one person who isn't used to this kind of work.
And Driftweed, are you honestly saying that you, and you alone, painted an entire apartment, like not just slapping paint on the walls, but actually considering the details, your first day in the job? Is that really what I have to measure up to? I don't see how that's possible. It took me half a day just to take all the blinds, curtains, screws, nails and hooks off the walls and ceilings, fill all the holes, sand all the holes, reapply texture everywhere I sanded, wipe down the molding so the tape would stick, and knock all the cobwebs off the walls. I really don't know how I could've painted two+ coats (both bedrooms were a dark green color) on every wall after that.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

This sounds like they got a screaming deal. It doesn't sound like you are a painting contractor. Are you a family friend of theirs or something? Chalk it up to a learning experience. Without giving them a fixed bid there is always a chance for misunderstandings. But if you are not a licensed contractor (in my state) you're not supposed to be doing jobs for bids anyways. Actually my spidey senses are saying something seems a little strange.


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## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

Tell your customer to pay you your damn money. You did a job for them at an agreed upon rate. It took you a while but sounds like you did a thorough job. Part of being a contractor is learning to not put up with BS from customers like this. I think if you took them to court you would win even though you had no contract. If the total number of hours to complete the job wasn't a set number not to exceed then they are at fault for not stating this from the outset. A contract is meant to protect you and the customer. If they did not sign one and still had you do the work and there are no problems with the completed work the courts will rule in your favor. It sounds to me like they were looking for a 300 dollar paint job. Stand your ground or sue their azz so they can also pay court cost as well.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Bethany said:


> I was hired to paint a 1,000 sq ft apartment recently, and although I'm not new to painting, it's been awhile since I've done any large jobs, and the first time I've done such a large job by myself (originally they agreed to a second person, but decided I couldn't have help after the first day). It took me a total of 9 days and 98 hours. Even though I worked as fast as I could, my clients are upset. They said that I masked ridiculously slow and the job took much longer than it should have. I'm wondering if anyone could give me any feedback about how long a job like this should have taken.
> 
> I started by filling and sanding around 50 holes in the walls, and then cleaned the walls which were covered in cobwebs, and laden with grease in the kitchen. I took all the doors off the hinges, as well as a few cabinet doors, and then had to move them from room to room as I sprayed. I figured a job like that would ultimately be quicker if I rented a paint sprayer, even though that would mean masking off everything except the areas to be painted. They wanted all the ceilings painted white, and the rest of the duplex painted three other colors. This meant spraying the ceilings, then masking off the ceilings (which took forever by myself, having to mask a few feet, then get down from the stool, move it with my one free hand and get back up on the stool). This also meant cleaning out the paint prayer between each color. The paint sprayer that I rented ended up malfuctioning as well which added a day of talking to the rental center and getting it working again, and then redoing the bathroom. I did get the price of the sprayer discounted 50% because of it. They knew before I started that it was my first time doing a job of that size and that I hadn't don't much painting lately and still hired me for $15/hour, which is much less than they would pay elsewhere. However, they still aren't willing to pay me for all the hours worked. I'm simply not sure what I should charge, but I think I should base it on how long it took. Any feedback is very appreciated!


Among a lot of other things, this REALLY concerns me


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

Another thing to consider: Net30 payment terms (the norm for for apartments).

Hope you didn't expect pay upon completion, because that's a reality check right there.

Most companies cut a check once a month, & there is usually a cutoff date for invoices.

Example: you painted that apartment 9\11 to 9/20. Cutoff date is 15th of each month. So now you have net30 which means your invoice isn't due until 10/20. But wait! You miss the cutoff date, so now you are not getting paid until November. 

And this is why most small guys sink in apartment repaints.

I actually hold invoices and batch send to play this to my favor.


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## mug (Dec 22, 2010)

I used to do apartments by myself. These were fairly new but were often "trashed" section 8 stuff. I never knew people could live in such conditions as they left the place in. 
Anyway, I could CLEAN and paint everything in about 2 days. Cleaning took more time.
Brush and roll. 
I don't do apartments anymore.


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## The Cutting Edge (May 25, 2014)

This meant spraying the ceilings, then masking off the ceilings.:thumbup1:


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

A little more practice and you'll figure it out. But honestly, if you can't muster the strength to use a roller, you might want to consider something less strenuous. And frankly, spraying is not all that easy on the body. Any time I'm shooting large areas for a day, my shoulder suffers a little for it.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

I think we have to keep in mind that the OP said this was the largest project they've ever worked on, and haven't painted anything more than a single room in years.

They probably don't have the tools or familiarity with what they did have that we all do. All of this is going to slow a job like this down to a crawl.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

It's a real risk asking a question like this in a forum for professionals. It would be like me going to HVAC Talk and asking why a customer was suspect of me after I simply discharged all of the R-22 into the atmosphere.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

About a year ago, a customer of mine hired me to paint out all the walls in a house she owned and rented out. She also asked me to paint the ceiling in the roughly 800sq' finished basement.

She then hired out some handy guy to paint out the walls of the basement because he charged less and she wasn't as concerned about the job in the basement. This kind of bugged me, but whatever.

I was finished the upstairs stuff, packed up and gone before he finished the walls in the basement. He also ruined my ceiling down there. I had no idea why it was taking him so long until I saw the gear he was using. One bedsheet for drops, a dollar store brush, no extension poles and a fiver for a 'ladder'.


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## jeffnc (Mar 14, 2011)

Bethany, kudos to you for laying it on the line honestly among the seasoned pros who were bound to hammer you.

Probably one mistake was trying to bring in spray gear on a smallish job that didn't really require it.

One thing I'm a little confused about was why you took the doors off. Did this job require painting all the trim and doors as well? If so, that would certainly account for some extra time.

It's really not clear how much work was involved here, so let's try to break it down and see if we can all at least get on the same page. Let's figure out the square footage of _wall_ space you actually painted (saying the apt. was 1,000 sf in _floor_ space is actually pretty meaningless without making some major assumptions.) Let's say a typical apt. of that size is: living/dining area 15x25, 2 baths at 5x8 each, 2 bedrooms at 11x14 each, kitchen at 8 x 10. The rest is made of of foyer area, hallway, closets, etc.

It's hard to know, but I'd estimate that the wall space is at least 2,000 sf. (For estimating purposes, I never subtract for things like doors and windows. It gets more complicated than that, but remember doors and windows actually slow you down because you have to cut around them.)

Now you add in the ceilings and obviously in a 1,000 sf apt. you're looking at about 1,000 sf of ceilings to paint. So now you're at 3,000 sf, let's just say.

Consider Hines' estimate. He says a paint company could go in there and paint the place in one day. That's true - typical painting companies can send in a crew of 4 or 5 painters easily. However your employer knew you were only one person.

Regarding Hines' estimate of $500 - no way. There is absolutely no way a painting company is going to charge only 17 cents per sf. Zero chance.

Your charge for the job was apparently $1470. This is very reasonable for quality work. However I'm sure that your employer was expecting a fantastic deal at $15/hr. He probably thought he was getting away with robbery if he thought you'd be done in 40 hours. (Which you should have been by the way, but then again you should also be charging about $30 an hour once you know what you're doing).

My guess is that a painting company would have gone in and done the job for around $2,000 (some more, obviously).

In addition to the trim, it's also not clear who provided the paint and other supplies, but since you worked at $15/hr I'm assuming the employer did. (I hope you didn't take tape, plastic etc out of your $15.) So it's hard to compare apples to apples.


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## jeffnc (Mar 14, 2011)

Oh, and the idea that they can't pay you for all honest hours worked is nonsense. If you want work done by the job, you hire by the job. If you want work done by the hour, you hire by the hour and pay by the hour. If you did what you said you'd do, then the rest is their problem. It's not like you'll be burning any bridges by fighting this, since obviously you won't be working for them again. You'll be working on your skills and your estimating and your marketing of yourself. Even if you're nice and take less money, you're still not going to be getting recommendations from them.


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## Painter-Aaron (Jan 17, 2013)

Sounds like you worked for my last contractor. 
I told him the job would be between 8-12 hrs 
It was done in 11 and he said I screwed him and my guy was slow. And decided to hold an hr pay.


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## jeffnc (Mar 14, 2011)

Bethany said:


> I honestly don't have the strength I used to have to roll a room super quickly.


You should be using an extension pole, even for 8' ceilings. This reduces the distance you have to raise your arms, thus saving your muscles a little.
http://previews.123rf.com/images/sc...-extension-pole-painting-wall-Stock-Photo.jpg

Obviously that's a very staged photo and you won't actually be painting W's, but you get the idea


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

Go purchase an 18" roller frame, sleeve and bucket. That alone will cut your time massively.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

$15 an hour and they got screwed? Were you working for the apartment complex? Tell them that's what painters work for when employed by a business. 

Sounds like you were working as an employee. They should be paying payroll, UE and SS taxes as well as insuring you.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Wildbill7145 said:


> I think we have to keep in mind that the OP said this was the largest project they've ever worked on, and haven't painted anything more than a single room in years.
> 
> They probably don't have the tools or familiarity with what they did have that we all do. All of this is going to slow a job like this down to a crawl.


apparently not even a step ladder


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

chrisn said:


> apparently not even a step ladder


Well now it's _possible_ it was one of those professional folding aluminum work platforms. 

But yeah, gathering from the rest of the post it was probably a salvaged ottoman or something.


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## Bethany (Oct 3, 2015)

Unfortunately, the person who hired me is my landlord and boss (I help her manage her B&Bs) and her husband. As if this whole thing wasn't enough of a mess, I'm concerned that all of this could screw up my living situation, and my other part-time job (vacancy rates in Portland are ridiculously low so finding another place is a months long endeavor). They knew that I hadn't done any professional painting in a really long time before I started the project. And when I did, I had help from several other people and didn't handle negotiating cost or deadlines, or putting in a bid for a job. No, there was no written contract, although I sure wish there had been. I came to this website because I knew that if I had posted in the DIY Painting forum, no one would have any idea about painting on a deadline and being hired as a painter. And even though I don't have a lot of experience, what I was doing was painting professionally.
I do feel like I've been taken advantage of, but I wasn't sure if my feelings were reasonable. Even though it took me longer than if they had hired a painting contractor, I didn't think they would expect me to paint as quickly as someone who'd had a lot of recent experience. If they needed it done by a specific time, they should have been clear about that, and shouldn't have decided against allowing me to bring another person into the project, or be upset when doing the project alone took me longer. And ultimately, if they wanted it done super fast, they should have contacted a painting company who could bring in a crew of painters.


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## Bethany (Oct 3, 2015)

And yes, slinger58, you're right. I was using one of those professional folding aluminum work platforms as a stool. There was a ladder I could've used, but without wheels it would've just made things more difficult.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Bethany said:


> And yes, slinger58, you're right. I was using one of those professional folding aluminum work platforms as a stool. There was a ladder I could've used, but without wheels it would've just made things more difficult.


A ladder without wheels? I don't have a ladder _with_ wheels.

Explain please.


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## Bethany (Oct 3, 2015)

It's true, most ladders don't have wheels. The ones that do are mostly just used inside a library. Because I was masking around the edge of all the ceilings, I had to move the stool around the room with me so I could reach the ceiling. I had to hold onto the masker with one hand and move the stool a few feet with the other. Moving the ladder would've been impossible with one hand and wouldn't have been much more helpful...unless it had wheels that would've allowed me to move myself along the wall without having to climb off of it.


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## Bethany (Oct 3, 2015)

...Even though it wouldn't be very safe (like if something was in the way).


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## jeffnc (Mar 14, 2011)

I'm sure she means dragging a ladder around is harder than a stepstool. And yes they make many types of ladders or ladder type things with wheels for easier moving. A work platform is much more handy.


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## Bethany (Oct 3, 2015)

That's exactly what I mean jeffnc.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Bethany said:


> It's true, most ladders don't have wheels. The ones that do are mostly just used inside a library. Because I was masking around the edge of all the ceilings, I had to move the stool around the room with me so I could reach the ceiling. I had to hold onto the masker with one hand and move the stool a few feet with the other. Moving the ladder would've been impossible with one hand and wouldn't have been much more helpful...unless it had wheels that would've allowed me to move myself along the wall without having to climb off of it.


Got it. Using a sprayer was probably the wrong way to go here. Brushing and rolling would eliminate the need for masking and would have been the more efficient way to go here. 

But at the end of the day, they owe you $1470.00. That was the deal you agreed to and they agreed to. You did your part, now they should pay you. 

As others have suggested here, you need more time working with an experienced painter/contractor before taking on jobs on your own. No disrespect intended. 

Hope it works out in the end. :thumbsup:


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## jeffnc (Mar 14, 2011)

driftweed said:


> Go purchase an 18" roller frame, sleeve and bucket. That alone will cut your time massively.


Yeah that's a great suggestion, and if a loaded 18" is too hard on your arms, a 14" is a good compromise (easier to find online than locally).


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

I certainly hope that your living situation doesn't get compromised because your landlord/boss feels you didn't get the job done fast enough. They owe you for your work, period.

If you do continue taking on painting jobs, just realize that the pros don't agree on one best way to paint an apartment, room, etc. I have asked for advice on spraying sequence for ceilings, walls, trim, and doors, and got enough different answers that, ultimately, it is trial and error until what works best for me is established. I am always trying to reduce the amount of time I spend on anything. This is a great place to go for suggestions, but you have to just experiment.

For example, in your situation, I might have sprayed the ceilings, not worrying if I got a little overspray on the tops of the walls. Ceiling paint is usually flat, walls usually go a different color and sheen. It is easy enough to cut in and roll over the overspray. I would not have masked the ceilings. That is difficult and hard on the body. I would then have cut in the walls and trim with a brush and rolled the walls. No masking needed, except for windows when spraying ceilings (and covering the floors). 

There are probably many here who would not use the method I suggested. At any rate, good luck.


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

Bethany: 

from here on out, learn from this. As long as you do that, you will be fine.

If you are wanting to make painting a full time job look around the business forum. It can be a lucrative trade, if you do things right.

We all have bad jobs/customers it happens. Go after your payment, just be polite about it. Hell, worse case scenario have them take it out of your rent.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Unfortunately, if you continue to have payment issues, your options will be limited. You really can't contemplate legal action since in Oregon (just assuming you are in that Portland) you need to be licenced, insured, and bonded in order to do painting for money. Yes, they should be happy to pay you what you earned since they appear to have gotten a great deal. But they seem to hold all the cards should they continue to be jerks.


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## The 3rd Coat (Aug 17, 2013)

If working on my own, I prep and repaint a 3 bedroom apartment in 15 days as a guide, if including all woodwork. If they want it faster, they can hire someone else.

But I would never do hourly rates, don't need to work for clock watchers. One thing I'm willing to do is do longer days and/or weekends to finish quicker. But will never try to speed up the actual pace of the work. A job takes as long as it takes to do it with a happy heart.


But back to your case, you were desperate for work, and there are low-lifes out there who will take advantage of that. Next time don't do hourly rates, but give a fixed price with a written quote.


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## jeffnc (Mar 14, 2011)

15 days? Wow, don't know how you get away with that - I don't know anyone who would understand more than about 5. Most people think in terms of their calendar schedule, regardless of the crew size. But even alone, I'm not sure how I could make a profit if that project took me 15 days.


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## The Cutting Edge (May 25, 2014)

The 3rd Coat said:


> If working on my own, I prep and repaint a 3 bedroom apartment in 15 days as a guide, if including all woodwork. If they want it faster, they can hire someone else.
> 
> But I would never do hourly rates, don't need to work for clock watchers. One thing I'm willing to do is do longer days and/or weekends to finish quicker. But will never try to speed up the actual pace of the work. A job takes as long as it takes to do it with a happy heart.
> 
> ...


15 days huh? For me that would come to about $5700 or so with materials. You must be in a very exclusive area. No one around my areas gonna pay me that to paint an apartment. 5 days even with the trim tops for me.


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## The 3rd Coat (Aug 17, 2013)

2 bedroom apartment repaint just walls and ceilings 3000 + tax. Price for woodwork depends on the details, usually ends up around the same as walls and ceilings, so 6 grand for a 2 bedroom apartment all up. That's what I need to charge for what is involved in doing an honest, thorough job. What other painters charge I could not care less. And if the client cannot afford an honest, thorough job, they are more than welcome to find someone cheaper.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

The 3rd Coat said:


> 2 bedroom apartment repaint just walls and windows 3000 + tax. Price for woodwork depends on the details, usually ends up around the same as walls and ceilings, so 6 grand for a 2 bedroom apartment all up. That's what I need to charge for what is involved in doing an honest, thorough job. What other painters charge I could not care less. And if the client cannot afford an honest, thorough job, they are more than welcome to find someone cheaper.


At those rates, I think Driftweed is already looking at immigrating.

Those prices are in AUD, right?


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## The 3rd Coat (Aug 17, 2013)

Sorry I meant walls and ceilings, not windows.

Yeah AUD. But my prices are not necessarily indicative of what painters generally charge here.

Remember that the minimum wage is about 17 bucks, cost of living is through the roof, a decent worker will be on at least 30 bucks hourly rate, though that's without any benefits. Most painters here are employees paid as subcontractors, which of course is illegal.

And then of course one man bands can always be more expensive than crews, simply cos there's more of a personal rapport and the client knows exactly what he's getting.

When I say apartments, I'm just referring to dimensions, not so much about them being rentals of low standards. I only work for owner occupiers. 1 furnished bedroom with woodwork cannot realistically be repainted in less than 20 man hours, or up to around 35 depending on the scope of woodwork and prep involved.

But then again, I'm the only painter I know that actually washes interior surfaces as part of the prep, so I shouldn't doubt when people claim they can prep and paint a bedroom in a day.


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## beedoola (May 18, 2015)

driftweed said:


> 50 nails holes...lol that what, 15 minutes? An hour at best to remove outlet covers....
> 
> Dude, you are in way over your head. 9 days? Are you serious? If you can't do an apartment a day you are sunk.
> 
> ...


Maybe with section 8 it is easier to fly through the painting but I don't think many could finish a whole apartment by themselves in a day.


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## propainterJ (Jan 31, 2011)

15 days to repaint a 3bedroom apartment?

Really????

Are you stripping all the paint off the woodwork first?

My goodness,15 days,ao you charging about $5,000.00 to repaint a 3 bedroom apartment?


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## HJ61 (Nov 14, 2011)

Going rates in Portland must be really low if $1.47/SF is not reasonable for walls and ceilings. Yes, the job did not warrant a sprayer, especially an inexperienced one. If you painted any trim they got a deal, if you cleaned anything they got a deal. But don't accept less than your invoice unless you really need to keep this relationship intact. Don't expect to get anymore repaints from the client either way .


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## propainterJ (Jan 31, 2011)

Bethany,did you get paid?


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## papernpaste (Dec 10, 2009)

http://homewyse.com
I wish that this site was up on the "net" when I first started painting. I wouldn't have burned myself as much.
If you navigate your way to interior painting under the "installation" tab, you'll navigate to the bottom of the next page at the bottom (scroll down and look on the left).
You can plug in your zip code and square feet and it will kick out numbers, LOW and HIGH, for labor, materials, and paint.
Other areas of this site will show you the same for drywall repair, ceiling painting, and, elsewhere on the same site, you can computer estimates for just about anything imaginable that has to do with your own home or whatever. 
You can adjust your own numbers, using this site as a guide, taking into account your experience and the complexity of the job. Hope this helps.


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