# New cedar siding primer



## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

On new smooth cedar lap siding what primer do you use? Oil or water base?


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

johnpaint said:


> On new smooth cedar lap siding what primer do you use? Oil or water base?


Not a whole lot of cedar lap in these parts but I use oil primer for that kind of work.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Yeah: That's what I have used in the passed, I'm thinking about going with water base this time, just wondered about what you all thought/


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Everything is moving towards water based, with them phasing out oil they will have to deliver a equal product. 
I have always been worried to use a water based on cedar and redwood and such because I never wanted to risk the failure. 
They are doing good things with the WB products these days though.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Workaholic said:


> Everything is moving towards water based, with them phasing out oil they will have to deliver a equal product.
> I have always been worried to use a water based on cedar and redwood and such because I never wanted to risk the failure.
> They are doing good things with the WB products these days though.


Yes they are, that all I use. Hate oil base now. it is as good or better.


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

Its a good idea to clean the wood first even if it is new construction. Since it will be covered by paint, you can use an acidic cleaner (brightener). This will help control your tannins. I also strongly recommend going with a primer that will hold back future tannin bleed. Oil primer, to me, still gets a better bite on wood but the real issue is getting something that works well on cedar.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

To bad VP is gone. He has lots of experience with this. 

Oil based for me. Afraid to be a water based guinea pig.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

we have tried quick dry oil on new cedar and it doesn't hold and has pop off on us a few times in the last 5 yrs or so we have gone back to the slow drying oils and the still seem to work the best.

I hate working with them but they work, they penetrate and hide tannins period.


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## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

I have used fresh start acrylic from benjamin moore with good results. You have to leave it a couple days after you prime it but it always seemed to control the tannins and bond real well.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

This site recommends oil base stain block.http://www.soundcedar.com/lumber/siding/installation/prime.php


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

PressurePros said:


> Its a good idea to clean the wood first even if it is new construction. Since it will be covered by paint, you can use an acidic cleaner (brightener). This will help control your tannins. I also strongly recommend going with a primer that will hold back future tannin bleed. Oil primer, to me, still gets a better bite on wood but the real issue is getting something that works well on cedar.


This sounds like a good idea I have to power wash the house anyway.


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## Rick the painter (Mar 30, 2009)

Go with the BM 094 John.Its not what it once was though,its like trying to spred clay.Combine that with a rough surface and its a bear to brush on.Its real annoying to me that our oil products are getting ruined.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Thanks guy's, your a lot of help.well get her done so it will last.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I have read some articles claiming that acrylic primers are always better, since they grab better (but the same articles also do admit oils penetrate more). I still lean towards the conventional wisdom of oil first. 094 is nice, 100 is much tougher to brush. I have been using 094 on railings with limited success so I am experimenting with PeelBond and BM 100 a little more this season. The PeelBond is not being used on fresh cedar though


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

My rep just told me today use peel bond on it. I think what I'm going to do is wash it with brightner, and use peelbond.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Slow drying oil primer is the way to go. I've tried just about everything else over the years and always ended up with bleed through problems.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

I've never heard of a wb successfully blocking tannin bleed. Perhaps they will someday. I'm sorry but my reps have told me many things that aren't that helpful. Peelbond from what I've read is good for wood that has coating failure and for chalky surfaces. But I have'nt seen anything saying it is good for new wood with tannin issues.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

DeanV said:


> I have read some articles claiming that acrylic primers are always better, since they grab better (but the same articles also do admit oils penetrate more). I still lean towards the conventional wisdom of oil first. 094 is nice, 100 is much tougher to brush. I have been using 094 on railings with limited success so I am experimenting with PeelBond and BM 100 a little more this season. The PeelBond is not being used on fresh cedar though


we have gone all 100 this season hate the dry time but not one problem... I have made notes to see how it holds up over time. 

some fences we did with cover stain three years ago one new cedar I have some spots that are popping down to fresh wood. I talk to some other guys at my store and they have had cover stain pop pff cedar as well. 
I have had success with WB sticking to cedar but not covering bleed.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I have been questioning 094 lately as well. The only thing I was wondering with 100 is, would it seal the wood so tight that there is no point to putting acrylic stain on the wood as opposed to paint?


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

DeanV said:


> I have been questioning 094 lately as well. The only thing I was wondering with 100 is, would it seal the wood so tight that there is no point to putting acrylic stain on the wood as opposed to paint?


that is a good point all tho the 22 new cedar fences we did this year the top coat was satin finish paint as per Associations specs. 

I am tho basically treating solid color stain (ProVt) as a flat paint these days anyways.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

One thing I have noticed: I see more tanning if the boards have a lot of knots vs virtical grain.


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## GMack (Jan 18, 2008)

I couldn't imagine that a water-based primer would hold back the tannins. I haven't found one that will do a good enough job for me . . . We've always used and continue to use Cabot Oil Primer. These days it comes in a quick dry formula though I consider the dry time to be perfect. It doesn't dry so fast that you can't work with it but will usually be nicely set up in a couple of hours. Not a 24 hour deal and not too fast for exterior like Cover Stain. Just right . . . and it fights those tannins!


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

GMack said:


> I couldn't imagine that a water-based primer would hold back the tannins. I haven't found one that will do a good enough job for me . . . We've always used and continue to use Cabot Oil Primer. These days it comes in a quick dry formula though I consider the dry time to be perfect. It doesn't dry so fast that you can't work with it but will usually be nicely set up in a couple of hours. Not a 24 hour deal and not too fast for exterior like Cover Stain. Just right . . . and it fights those tannins!


We found once it went quick dry that we had issues with that as well with tannins and then that's when we went cover stain with no luck... I did like the Cabot before the change, glad your having good luck with it. 

All tho we have had better luck with some oil when they were tinted gray for some gray fences we did but with white its slow dry all the way.


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## painttofish (Aug 28, 2007)

I agree new cedar should be properly cleaned prior to coating. Ideally coated with a transparent stain to release the tannins over time and allowed to age with the protection and breathability of a semi-trans. If not very dry, and properly prepped, new cedar will shed the primer and top coat, often leaving a membrane of the cedar on the back of the peeled coating. If new cedar must be coated with a solid paint or stain, check the moisture level with a moisture meter and prime with a slow dry oil. 

Whatever your feelings are about acrylic solid stain, compared to paint, coat with your favorite top coat.

Cedar is finicky when new, and care should be taken IMO.


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## tsunamicontract (May 3, 2008)

XIM has that Bleed Control product but I am not sure if it would work on new cedar, just blocking some tannins, not all tannins.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

tsunamicontract said:


> XIM has that Bleed Control product but I am not sure if it would work on new cedar, just blocking some tannins, not all tannins.


 I have wanted to that but have yet too.


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## painttofish (Aug 28, 2007)

Nice website MAK!:thumbsup:


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I tried the Bleed Control on sample sections of a problem house (white, smooth side out cedar). I primed some areas with 094, topcoated some areas with Gard + BC 100, some with Moorwood + BC 100, some areas with primer and the top coats without BC 100. I also had a control area with only MoorWood and no BC 100.

Unfortunately, the results were inconclusive. None of the areas showed much tannin bleed since the sample went up last fall (only in areas where the surface of the oil stain currently on the home has hairline cracks and those bleed tannin). Also, they remodeled the sun room and porch, so I lost my control sample of stain without BC 100.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

painttofish said:


> Nice website MAK!:thumbsup:


actually its getting an over haul right now I was not happy with the original flash work from the the guy I hired originally.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

painttofish said:


> Nice website MAK!:thumbsup:


I agree, I like your gallery pics.


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## painttofish (Aug 28, 2007)

MAK-Deco said:


> actually its getting an over haul right now I was not happy with the original flash work from the the guy I hired originally.



I didn't want to criticize the flash (I don't like flash at all) But wanted to give you a thumbs up on the website.:thumbsup: I thankfully get calls from our web presents from Chi Town second homeowners who vacation up here.


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## tsunamicontract (May 3, 2008)

MAK-Deco said:


> actually its getting an over haul right now I was not happy with the original flash work from the the guy I hired originally.


I like the site too MAK, very professional. Several errors in the text in the more about the company paragraph (grammatical and punctuation not spelling)


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

Hey, I thought this was a thread about cedar priming!:laughing:
Mak, I bet you thought no one would notice!


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

tsunamicontract said:


> I like the site too MAK, very professional. Several errors in the text in the more about the company paragraph (grammatical and punctuation not spelling)


Yes I aware of that and one of the isue I have with the flash is I can not edit it and the guy I paid to do it who I was not happy with will not give me the flash files to edit it. 
As I mention it is getting re-done with a flash open and all pages in html.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

Workaholic said:


> I agree, I like your gallery pics.


I actually need to add more but I haven't had the time to go thru and get the ones I really like to post.


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## painttofish (Aug 28, 2007)

Hey, I want a *bold* user name...... But without the responsibility:yes:


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## tsunamicontract (May 3, 2008)

damit, i was hoping to get a thanks for my proofreading skills 
That is a bummer MAK, has to be frustrating. Will you be able to get those files so you can switch web guys? I actually talked to a site builder last night and might actually upgrade from my under-construction page here soon!


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## painttofish (Aug 28, 2007)

MAK-Deco said:


> I actually need to add more but I haven't had the time to go thru and get the ones I really like to post.



We are saying nice things. No need to self interrogate. It looks good and you will work out the details!


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## painttofish (Aug 28, 2007)

tsunamicontract said:


> damit, i was hoping to get a thanks for my proofreading skills
> That is a bummer MAK, has to be frustrating. Will you be able to get those files so you can switch web guys? I actually talked to a site builder last night and might actually upgrade from my under-construction page here soon!



NOOOO thanks for you!

We are still watching and moderating your basic reading skills....


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

painttofish said:


> We are saying nice things. No need to self interrogate. It looks good and you will work out the details!


I am very good at self interrogating... You should see me on the job..


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

johnpaint said:


> One thing I have noticed: I see more tanning if the boards have a lot of knots vs virtical grain.


Now that you mention it it does seem to be true. Woodoligists out there that can explain it?


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

Workaholic said:


> Now that you mention it it does seem to be true. Woodoligists out there that can explain it?


we have had better luck in the last few yrs as well since most of the cedar we are getting no for trim stock is white cedar and not red tends to be less oil in it and doesn't smell as nice ....


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## tsunamicontract (May 3, 2008)

Vertical grain wood is much better if you can get it, but it will be like 1 in four boards are vert grain, the rest are flat. Here is a good link for some info.


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## painttofish (Aug 28, 2007)

MAK-Deco said:


> I am very good at self interrogating... You should see me on the job..



I hear ya. My problem is interrogating my employees about who dripped paint when it is impossible to know????


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## tsunamicontract (May 3, 2008)

More links:
Forum thread on wood shrinkage :laughing:

TDS on wood grain

Encyclopedia of wood

Trade Journal Article


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## tsunamicontract (May 3, 2008)

painttofish said:


> I hear ya. My problem is interrogating my employees about who dripped paint when it is impossible to know????


The real question is who dripped the sikkens on the stucco!


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

painttofish said:


> I hear ya. My problem is interrogating my employees about who dripped paint when it is impossible to know????


very true....


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