# Benefits of ceiling paint



## radio11 (Aug 14, 2015)

Been helping a long time general contractor friend of mine "catch up" on a few of his jobs. I can use whatever wall and trim paint I want, but has me using cheap, flat wall paint for the ceilings. Not a big deal over the past few weeks, but just asking opinions for fun. 

What are your thoughts? Personally, I see little difference, but get ceiling paint for the same price (or less) anyway. 


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## irishjim21 (Feb 2, 2017)

I always use cheap flat white wall paint on ceilings unless they want a higher sheen. Sherwin Williams master hide is great. cheap, goes on good, and touches up great


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## goga (Aug 6, 2015)

Have never seeing any difference, but maybe price.


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## BehrProPaint (Feb 10, 2017)

There are minor differences.

With our ceiling paint it is designed to apply better to textured ceilings better than another interior flat paint would. Obviously using Behr Ultra or Marquee is massive overkill on a ceiling so I am talking about the i300 or i100 flat.

Behr ceiling paint (as are most of our competitors ceiling paints) is a cleaner white as well. Ours comes in Ultra Pure White. The whitest white.

When I ran SW stores I actually uses 200 flat for ceilings mostly or Masterhide. The probably with those though is they are such a dirty white out of the can where it becomes an issue for some of the customers getting their ceilings painted.

Eminence for SW is a useless product.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

BehrProPaint said:


> There are minor differences.
> 
> With our ceiling paint it is designed to apply better to textured ceilings better than another interior flat paint would. Obviously using Behr Ultra or Marquee is massive overkill on a ceiling so I am talking about the i300 or i100 flat.
> 
> ...


First of all, welcome to the forum. Glad to have you join us. 

Secondly, you went from SW to Behr? Hoo-boy... hope you have a thick skin. 

For all the other members - play nice with the new guy.


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## BehrProPaint (Feb 10, 2017)

SW lied to me ... I took over an awful commercial store with an understanding that I would fix it and be the bandaid until one of our new stores opened up that was right around the corner from my house.

Kept putting it off and putting it off to eventually they told me they pulled the plug on that store and were putting it in a few cities over now instead. No way they didnt know that information before hand and strung it along. Now I was stuck in a ****hole city driving 30 miles to work every day and even had to work ALONE at the store for almost two straight months. Behr had called me for a rep position last March and I politely said no. So I called them back and they offered my 10k more than SW on the spot... easy decision... been with Behr now since October last year.

I havent come across to many SW price posts yet but whatever deal you think they give you...dont be fooled.... products are sold from distribution to SW then SW to the store entities. Marked up twice. Did you see the 2017 consumer reports or the Marschall Labs tests?

SW was destroyed. Consumer reports interior paints the first SW product is a product that doesnt even sell in SW its the hgtv they sell at Lowes lol.. Emerald was near the bottom.

They ruined promar 200 two summers ago and just took apart superpaint this past summer. Both products are like water now. Love Cashmere though, always have.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

BehrProPaint said:


> SW lied to me ... I took over an awful commercial store with an understanding that I would fix it and be the bandaid until one of our new stores opened up that was right around the corner from my house.
> 
> Kept putting it off and putting it off to eventually they told me they pulled the plug on that store and were putting it in a few cities over now instead. No way they didnt know that information before hand and strung it along. Now I was stuck in a ****hole city driving 30 miles to work every day and even had to work ALONE at the store for almost two straight months. Behr had called me for a rep position last March and I politely said no. So I called them back and they offered my 10k more than SW on the spot... easy decision... been with Behr now since October last year.
> 
> ...


they lie to everyone, me included. As far as selling Behr? A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do. But so far everything he has said comparing Behr to Sw is spot on. But a piece of advice? Even though you didn't ask? Don't believe the Consumer Reports testing. There is a reason why the brands that are always at the top are always at the top. And it doesn't have much to do with the actual quality of the paint.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

And as far as what SW sells their paint for? They have already covered their costs before it ever reaches the store. Any price they get at the store level is profit to the company. When I worked for them back in the 80's the out the factory door cost on PM200 was under $1.75 a gallon, yet their retail price at the stores was close to $20. So they give the painters a discount and sell it to them for $12-13 a gallon. Big deal. It's still just a $1.75 a gallon paint. Emerald? $70 a gallon retail? I guarantee that stuff doesn't cost $15 a gallon at the factory.


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## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

Most everyone on here hates SW so BehrProPaint, you're preaching to the choir.
Secondly, most everyone hates Behr Paint even worse than SW.
Walk softly and carry a big stick. 
Other than that, welcome aboard!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Gymschu said:


> Most everyone on here hates SW so BehrProPaint, you're preaching to the choir.
> Secondly, most everyone hates Behr Paint even worse than SW.
> Walk softly and carry a big stick.
> Other than that, welcome aboard!


maybe if he is a true paint salesman he'll understand the trick is to......well just keep a good sense of humor and don't take things personally. That's what has kept me in the paint selling game for 33 years. And remember whatever paint you are selling, to whoever is in your store, it's the best damn paint money can buy. That's what all the marketing says and what a good salesman says. Remember, there where salespeople good enough to sell millions of Chevy Vegas!


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Why do a lot of professional painters seem to not like BEHR, and what can be done to change their mind?


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

CApainter said:


> Why do a lot of professional painters seem to not like BEHR, and what can be done to change their mind?


I have to imagine it's because they like to go somewhere that only sells paint which makes them feel better about themselves. Self esteem issues? Not as much scowling at DIYers, carpenters, sparkies?

Anyhoo, the hardware store I get my BM paint from sells all sorts of stuff including hot sauce! Some really good ones too! I can get by my personal delusions or failings if I can get hot sauce. No therapy required.

On top of all this, I can't even begin to tell you the number of times I've run into former customers who were wandering around in there shopping for other stuff and ran into me buying paint. All of a sudden you're talking about upcoming jobs for them.


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## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Anyhoo, the hardware store I get my BM paint from sells all sorts of stuff including hot sauce! Some really good ones too! I can get by my personal delusions or failings if I can get hot sauce. No therapy required.


A hardware store with HOT SAUCE? That's what I call heaven, Wildbill!


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Gymschu said:


> A hardware store with HOT SAUCE? That's what I call heaven, Wildbill!


It is relegated to a shelf at the back of the store in an out of the way spot, but my wife pointed it out to me a while back.

I keep telling the girls in the paint department if they ever start selling groceries, I'll never have to go anywhere else. Other than the beer store of course. Canadians, Canadianing.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

CApainter said:


> Why do a lot of professional painters seem to not like BEHR, and what can be done to change their mind?




For me it only took a couple of box store buying experiences to turn me away. As for the quality of the paint itself, I haven't used enough of it to pass judgment. 

As for SW, they have some good products. But it gets tiresome playing their pricing game which reminds me of playing the lottery. 


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## NACE (May 16, 2008)

Years ago ceiling paint was designed and formulated to have acoustical properties. They were designed specifically to reflect sound back into an area. I still see specifications that require the label to say it has acoustical properties. In this day and age ceiling paints are only supposed to be white and inexpensive. I believe that the only label and technical data sheet that claims to have acoustical properties is the Benjamin Moore 258 ceiling white. Muresco. Now ceiling whites are required to be dead flat to minimize reflection from light sources. Anything that is white and flat is acceptable for ceiling paint. Most ceiling paint our toned gray or some have bluing added to give the appearance of a whiter finish. Most of the less expensive flat whites have poor spread rates and are extremely porous. Personally I like the California diamond ceiling paint and the Benjamin Moore 508. Many of my contractors use the super hide 0VOC ceiling white.


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## radio11 (Aug 14, 2015)

CApainter said:


> Why do a lot of professional painters seem to not like BEHR, and what can be done to change their mind?




I simply don't like the hassle of the box stores. I go there for several things, but not during my daily paint runs. 

I can pull up to SW, walk 35 feet to the counter, be greeted by name with my account already pulled up. I can call at any time and have products ready for pick up whenever necessary. I know it's apparently a problem, but never once had a price issue or miscommunication. And honestly, I'm small taters and don't buy thousands of gallons per year. It just works for me. Hell, I would even trade with pac man if he provided similar service (with a similar decent attitude). 


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## 007 Dave (Jun 22, 2016)

BehrProPaint said:


> SW lied to me ... I took over an awful commercial store with an understanding that I would fix it and be the bandaid until one of our new stores opened up that was right around the corner from my house.
> 
> Kept putting it off and putting it off to eventually they told me they pulled the plug on that store and were putting it in a few cities over now instead. No way they didnt know that information before hand and strung it along. Now I was stuck in a ****hole city driving 30 miles to work every day and even had to work ALONE at the store for almost two straight months. Behr had called me for a rep position last March and I politely said no. So I called them back and they offered my 10k more than SW on the spot... easy decision... been with Behr now since October last year.
> 
> ...


I never liked Emerald. Cashmere used to be my favorite paint but it seems to have gone down hill this past couple of years. I kinda like Eminence but way to high of price for ceiling paint. I too made the mistake to follow consumer reports for years but found out by two totally different industries that they are a big joke.

Oh BTW welcome to paint talk.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

CApainter said:


> Why do a lot of professional painters seem to not like BEHR, and what can be done to change their mind?


I cannot believe you(of all people) have asked this question. How many times has this been brought up here? 5,10,15,50,100 times?? Come on man. 

As to the comments by the Behr rep, I will hold my tongue.







For now


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

NACE said:


> Years ago ceiling paint was designed and formulated to have acoustical properties. They were designed specifically to reflect sound back into an area. I still see specifications that require the label to say it has acoustical properties. In this day and age ceiling paints are only supposed to be white and inexpensive. I believe that the only label and technical data sheet that claims to have acoustical properties is the Benjamin Moore 258 ceiling white. Muresco. Now ceiling whites are required to be dead flat to minimize reflection from light sources. Anything that is white and flat is acceptable for ceiling paint. Most ceiling paint our toned gray or some have bluing added to give the appearance of a whiter finish. Most of the less expensive flat whites have poor spread rates and are extremely porous. Personally I like the California diamond ceiling paint and the Benjamin Moore 508. Many of my contractors use the super hide 0VOC ceiling white.


aren't true ceiling paints typically more spatter resistant then wall paints?


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

radio11 said:


> I simply don't like the hassle of the box stores. I go there for several things, but not during my daily paint runs.
> 
> I can pull up to SW, walk 35 feet to the counter, be greeted by name with my account already pulled up. I can call at any time and have products ready for pick up whenever necessary. I know it's apparently a problem, but never once had a price issue or miscommunication. And honestly, I'm small taters and don't buy thousands of gallons per year. It just works for me. Hell, I would even trade with pac man if he provided similar service (with a similar decent attitude).
> 
> ...


I have a great attitude when people visit my store. I can provide all of that service and much more if need be. But keep in mind, the way some of you feel about the "I'll paint any room for $79!" people is the same way i feel about companies that charge exorbitant retail prices just to be able to advertise a huge discount. Or companies that put most of their money into marketing to tell people how great their product is as opposed to actually putting their money into a quality product. As I have said before, thousands of paint retailers have gone by-by while they just sat by and said nothing about the loss of integrity in the paint business. I'm not about to be another one.


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## BehrProPaint (Feb 10, 2017)

It's embarrassing how bad the paint department is at home depot. Ive chewed out the department head a handful of times because they are incapable of managing their staff and handling orders. I call in an order and say my contractor is coming in an hour please have his 15g order ready... marquee exterior satin.

Either they dont have it ready or they make like interior eggshell lol.

And yeah store cost on exterior superpaint satin is $25.97 but company cost is like $15. 


Multipurpose primer for 27.99 on shelves? $6 for SW. 

I sold mostly products like corobond, targuard, macropoxy 80, sherkem, etc. My store was the largest retailer in florida selling blasting media... I had 50k lbs of recycled glass, black beauty etc always in stock and boy i regretted getting into that market badly... had two female employees so I was the only one who could move it around and loadit up (50lb bags)


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## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

My two (and only) Behr stories are these.......1st time was when a customer insisted I use Behr semi-gloss white on 6 interior wood doors. One, it sure didn't look like SG when dry, and 2, the finished product after bonding primer and 3 coats felt like 220 grit sandpaper. The HO went ballistic. In fact, she downright threatened me with bodily harm. I told her over and over that I didn't want to use the Behr but she had insisted. My only out was to refund her money and call it good.

The second experience was at HD. I needed 6 gallons of a peach color. They mixed it. Dummy me didn't pop a can to double check the color. Drove to job site, opened a can. Purple, I swear to god, purple........all 6 gallons were Purple. Somehow they got the wrong formula or the wrong base.......anyway, no more Behr for me.


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## NACE (May 16, 2008)

PACman said:


> aren't true ceiling paints typically more spatter resistant then wall paints?


I believe that was one of the original claims. Now the reology features spatter resistance in most quality architectural coatings.


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## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

Wildbill7145 said:


> It is relegated to a shelf at the back of the store in an out of the way spot, but my wife pointed it out to me a while back.
> 
> I keep telling the girls in the paint department if they ever start selling groceries, I'll never have to go anywhere else. Other than the beer store of course. Canadians, Canadianing.


Wildbill, have you ever been to a Pepper Palace hot sauce store? I've been to the one in Gatlinburg TN. Walls and walls full of every kind of hot sauce on the planet.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Gymschu said:


> Wildbill, have you ever been to a Pepper Palace hot sauce store? I've been to the one in Gatlinburg TN. Walls and walls full of every kind of hot sauce on the planet.


Don't think they exist in Canada. We survive on whatever we can get at the local grocery stores, or the occasional trip to the city where you can find some stores that carry a bit more variety.

We did have a store in town when we moved here that sold groceries, sauces, spices, etc. from virtually all over the world. Sadly, it closed up shop. Just an unsustainable business in a small town full of Brits and Scots where people think ketchup is "too spicy!" and I've heard that said many times.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Getting back to the original subject, over the past several months I've been converted to using BM ultra spec for ceiling paint over the other stuff I'd been using which is labelled as a ceiling paint (name won't matter, you guys have never heard of it). Covers nicely. Dries very flat. Costs about the same, actually a wee bit cheaper. Hasn't let me down yet, haven't had any complaints.

Pretty sure, going into the future this'll be my go to ceiling paint. Odd thing is that since where I get my paint is a hardware store catering to both HOs and contractors, they have to keep the ultra spec in the back as their only supposed to be selling it to contractors unless a HO specifically asks for it.

Makes me feel like I'm asking for some really good hooch or weed, or something like dirty like **** magazines off the high shelf. Either way, I don't care because in the full score of my life I've done both.


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## BehrProPaint (Feb 10, 2017)

What product was it and how long ago? For doors and trim and cabinets I always tell them to recommend alkyd enamel (semigloss or satin are available). Its just like pro classic except without the sag (waterbase version) and the price tag. Comes in oil too.

I went into one of my Sarasota stores and I had to teach them how to match... like literally my 2nd day with Behr and these people have been in HD for 5-12 years each... unreal.

They never cut back on the formulas. I told them if its dark go back 20-25% and if its light 10-15% is good.. they respond with things like 'well itll be light then"

Yeah dummy!! Thats the point!!!! If its too light then good you can tweak from there adding 5-10% back in and youll be good.. if its too dark you're only option is to add white and most of the time you run out of room in teh can anyway so you're screwed.

There are 200 stores across the globe now with Behr reps in store so if you have access to one of these I encourage you..actually I demand you to call them with your orders lol. Their job is to help the pros while in the store. HD and Behr teamed together to help turn the image of HD paint department around. Slowly it's getting better.. 100-200 more in store guys will be added within a year and within six months you should be able to pay for paint at the paint department as well.



Gymschu said:


> My two (and only) Behr stories are these.......1st time was when a customer insisted I use Behr semi-gloss white on 6 interior wood doors. One, it sure didn't look like SG when dry, and 2, the finished product after bonding primer and 3 coats felt like 220 grit sandpaper. The HO went ballistic. In fact, she downright threatened me with bodily harm. I told her over and over that I didn't want to use the Behr but she had insisted. My only out was to refund her money and call it good.
> 
> The second experience was at HD. I needed 6 gallons of a peach color. They mixed it. Dummy me didn't pop a can to double check the color. Drove to job site, opened a can. Purple, I swear to god, purple........all 6 gallons were Purple. Somehow they got the wrong formula or the wrong base.......anyway, no more Behr for me.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Still have a firm grip on my tongue


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

BehrProPaint said:


> What product was it and how long ago? For doors and trim and cabinets I always tell them to recommend alkyd enamel (semigloss or satin are available). Its just like pro classic except without the sag (waterbase version) and the price tag. Comes in oil too.
> 
> I went into one of my Sarasota stores and I had to teach them how to match... like literally my 2nd day with Behr and these people have been in HD for 5-12 years each... unreal.
> 
> ...


I give up. Having reps is all well and good but that does NOTHING to help the actual (insert adjective here) product, which is the major problem as far as I'm concerned.
See? I could have put a multitude of adjectives in there , but held back.



For now


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## BehrProPaint (Feb 10, 2017)

Speak your mind..

I will destroy you with scientific data not just a narrow minded opinion. I know things you don't.

So lets see what DATA you have for your argument... my guess is none.


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## BehrProPaint (Feb 10, 2017)

You sound like that deadbeat painter who came into my stores every week to complain about every product failing and wanted free paint... oh sir did you prep..

"no i dont prep ive been painting for 45 years ive used sherman williams since before you were born i know everything" 

oh ok sir soooo you used promar 700 on a customer driveway... nice.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Getting back to the original subject, over the past several months I've been converted to using BM ultra spec for ceiling paint over the other stuff I'd been using which is labelled as a ceiling paint (name won't matter, you guys have never heard of it). Covers nicely. Dries very flat. Costs about the same, actually a wee bit cheaper. Hasn't let me down yet, haven't had any complaints.
> 
> Pretty sure, going into the future this'll be my go to ceiling paint. Odd thing is that since where I get my paint is a hardware store catering to both HOs and contractors, they have to keep the ultra spec in the back as their only supposed to be selling it to contractors unless a HO specifically asks for it.
> 
> Makes me feel like I'm asking for some really good hooch or weed, or something like dirty like **** magazines off the high shelf. Either way, I don't care because in the full score of my life I've done both.


the only reason they keep the Ultraspec in the back is because they want to sell the expensive stuff to the DIY'ers. SW does the same thing.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

chrisn said:


> I give up. Having reps is all well and good but that does NOTHING to help the actual (insert adjective here) product, which is the major problem as far as I'm concerned.
> See? I could have put a multitude of adjectives in there , but held back.
> 
> 
> ...


edit,edit,edit. Edit is another four letter word btw.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

This thread is about this close[-] to being shut down....along with a few members. First and final notice.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

BehrProPaint said:


> Speak your mind..
> 
> I will destroy you with scientific data not just a narrow minded opinion. I know things you don't.
> 
> So lets see what DATA you have for your argument... my guess is none.


EDIT!EDIT!EDIT! I don't want to give poor Wolfie a heart attack! FEBRUARY! Jeez!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Gymschu said:


> My two (and only) Behr stories are these.......1st time was when a customer insisted I use Behr semi-gloss white on 6 interior wood doors. One, it sure didn't look like SG when dry, and 2, the finished product after bonding primer and 3 coats felt like 220 grit sandpaper. The HO went ballistic. In fact, she downright threatened me with bodily harm. I told her over and over that I didn't want to use the Behr but she had insisted. My only out was to refund her money and call it good.
> 
> The second experience was at HD. I needed 6 gallons of a peach color. They mixed it. Dummy me didn't pop a can to double check the color. Drove to job site, opened a can. Purple, I swear to god, purple........all 6 gallons were Purple. Somehow they got the wrong formula or the wrong base.......anyway, no more Behr for me.


"Grrrrrrr" I can hear wolfie's growling from Ohio.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

PACman said:


> "Grrrrrrr" I can hear wolfie's growling from Ohio.


You probably aren't hearing his growling, they're usually silent. We gotta figure out a way for independent, BM, SW and behr, etc. reps to be nice to each other on here or else this is gonna be an ongoing issue. The pack will be fed, but that's not the issue. They'll always be fed.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Directly from the Forum Rules Quick Link:

2. "Users shall treat each other with respect at all times on PaintTalk.com. Ideas and opinions may be challenged, but name calling, personal attacks, or other inappropriate behavior will not be allowed and may cause your account to be banned. Harassment will not be tolerated in this community. This includes private messages, Facebook and user emails."

2b. "Users shall not question or debate another member's qualifications publicly on the message board. Instead, any questionable posts should be reported using the "Report Post" button."

Applies to *all *members; new, established, non-reps, reps from all companies, Behr lovers, and Behr haters - in short EVERYBODY!


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

Ceiling paint has higher bonding properties than wall paint. It has to overcome the additional force of gravity. Otherwise, it would fall off of the ceiling.

Duh.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

February... It's here. It took a bit.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

epretot said:


> Ceiling paint has higher bonding properties than wall paint. It has to overcome the additional force of gravity. Otherwise, it would fall off of the ceiling.
> 
> 
> 
> Duh.




And that is why ceiling paint sold on the moon is formulated differently from earthly ceiling paint.


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

slinger58 said:


> And that is why ceiling paint sold on the moon is formulated differently from earthly ceiling paint.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Exactly. I did two jobs there last month. I used Regal in the ceilings without a problem. I would never try that here.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

epretot said:


> Exactly. I did two jobs there last month. I used Regal in the ceilings without a problem. I would never try that here.




Two in one month?! Man, your rocket fuel bill was a humdinger in January!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Wildbill7145 said:


> You probably aren't hearing his growling, they're usually silent. We gotta figure out a way for independent, BM, SW and behr, etc. reps to be nice to each other on here or else this is gonna be an ongoing issue. The pack will be fed, but that's not the issue. They'll always be fed.


Hey I'm trying to play nice! After all, Behr is actually quite helpful to my business.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

epretot said:


> Ceiling paint has higher bonding properties than wall paint. It has to overcome the additional force of gravity. Otherwise, it would fall off of the ceiling.
> 
> Duh.


Ohhh! So it has anti-gravitational properties AND a primer already in it! Got it!:vs_laugh:


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## goga (Aug 6, 2015)

PACman said:


> Ohhh! So it has anti-gravitational properties AND a primer already in it! Got it!:vs_laugh:


As a matter of fact Rodda for example sells primer/ceiling paint which can be used both ways. Very nice flat finish on ceiling if used as a paint, bonding properties are amazing, the paint actually does not fall down at any gravitation level and angle, I even tried to blow on it with the high velocity fan to help with drying time, it stays on ceiling no matter what. Wall paint is a different story though, really hard to keep it on the ceiling, does not bond as well :vs_cool:.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

goga said:


> As a matter of fact Rodda for example sells primer/ceiling paint which can be used both ways. Very nice flat finish on ceiling if used as a paint, bonding properties are amazing, the paint actually does not fall down at any gravitation level and angle, I even tried to blow on it with the high velocity fan to help with drying time, it stays on ceiling no matter what. Wall paint is a different story though, really hard to keep it on the ceiling, does not bond as well :vs_cool:.


does the government know about this stuff:?


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Wolfgang said:


> This thread is about this close[-] to being shut down....along with a few members. First and final notice.


 
I quit


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

chrisn said:


> I quit


You're welcome ro join us in our aniti-gravity ceiling paint discussion.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

epretot said:


> You're welcome ro join us in our aniti-gravity ceiling paint discussion.


No drips?


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## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

chrisn said:


> Still have a firm grip on my tongue


I have proof. (Photo courtesy of a Hagerstown MD webcam).


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

Wildbill7145 said:


> No drips?


You can get an occasional drip. Spatter? Absolutely not. 

I define drips as paint droplets nearing the size of a pea. It would be difficult for a large droplet to overcome gravity. 

Spatter is defined as droplets smalller than a pea. That never happens when using ceiling paint engineered with anti-gravity properties.

I can tell you who knows all about this. I mean scientifically. I'm just a lay person when it comes to these matters. Observational science if you will. Gough can explain the true science of what I have mentioned. Hopefully he chimes in.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

epretot said:


> You can get an occasional drip. Spatter? Absolutely not.
> 
> I define drips as paint droplets nearing the size of a pea. It would be difficult for a large droplet to overcome gravity.
> 
> ...


Keep in mind we can apply the Universal Gravitational Field Constant in all situations.

Variable notifications:
G=Universal gravitational field constant=6.67408 × 10E-11 mE3 kgE-1 sE-2
m1=mass of first object
m2=mass of second object
d=distance between objects

The formula to apply to find the force of gravity between any two objects:

Fgrav = (Gm1m2)/dE2


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## Betheweb (Jul 26, 2016)

Anti-gravity is passe. Has anybody tried SW's new Omnipotence negative gravity ceiling paint? You just mask the walls and open the can. The stuff floats right up and paints the ceiling itself.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

I don't know man. This anti-gravity paint isn't in Consumer Reports so it must not be any good.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Betheweb said:


> Anti-gravity is passe. Has anybody tried SW's new Omnipotence negative gravity ceiling paint? You just mask the walls and open the can. The stuff floats right up and paints the ceiling itself.


Omnipotence is so last year.

This year, I've been trying the new Jedi mind trick paint. Customer explains what they want, you look deep into their soul and say "you don't need to see the walls painted." They happily cut you a cheque and gleam with excitement over their freshly painted walls. Low VOC, literally no prep required, easy cleanup.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Keep in mind we can apply the Universal Gravitational Field Constant in all situations.
> 
> Variable notifications:
> G=Universal gravitational field constant=6.67408 × 10E-11 mE3 kgE-1 sE-2
> ...


Though a viable equation, I think that in the context of this particular ongoing conversation, Fgrav =:vs_poop:


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

RH said:


> Though a viable equation, I think that in the context of this particular ongoing conversation, Fgrav =:vs_poop:


You're questioning the application of Newton's theory of Universal Gravitation when we're talking about anti-gravity paint?


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

Wildbill7145 said:


> You're questioning the application of Newton's theory of Universal Gravitation when we're talking about anti-gravity paint?


Now this is good stuff. Aren't you all glad Wolf didn't close the thread. We managed to get back on topic and discuss how Newton's theory applies. Im a little disappointed Gough hasn't chimed in. Probably out of his league.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

This just reminded me of when I was in grade 13 physics and the teacher was having us do an experiment on gravity. He had this special air table like an air hockey table on a slant. There was an electrified puck that would spark at specific regular intervals creating a mark on a piece of paper.

The idea was to push the electrified puck making it float up and then come down, creating a parabola of dots on the paper. You make measurements, then calculate the speed, etc. etc. etc. etc., then calculate the accelerating rate of descent downwards thus showing the force of gravity based on the rate of acceleration at 9.8m/s.

Anyhoo, you weren't supposed to touch the puck when it was electrified.

My friend Paul missed a day so he was doing the experiment at the back of the class by himself while the rest of us were reading quietly.... He touched the puck.

"OWWWW, FRACK!!!!!!!" (not what he said) and it was seriously loud.

Everyone spun around to see what happened, then there was a deadly silence as everyone turned back around to see what the teacher was going to do.

After about 30 seconds, the teacher calmly responded "Paul, take your seat before you hurt yourself further."


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*wall paint on ceiling*



radio11 said:


> Been helping a long time general contractor friend of mine "catch up" on a few of his jobs. I can use whatever wall and trim paint I want, but has me using cheap, flat wall paint for the ceilings. Not a big deal over the past few weeks, but just asking opinions for fun.
> 
> What are your thoughts? Personally, I see little difference, but get ceiling paint for the same price (or less) anyway.
> 
> ...


A couple of years ago I started painting for a contractor who remodels condos in 2 downtown Chicago hi rises, Marina Towers, both round and with floor to ceiling windows on the outside that bring unforgiving light in at certain times of the day. He was using mostly Behr PP and sometimes Ultra for trim. He was using Behr Premium Plus white for ceilings. I convinced him to try out the Behr PP ceiling white. We did a few ceilings with that, then he brought in a 5 of the plain white and we went back to using that. It seems to work better that the PP ceiling paint.

On the current job, the client specified that she wanted only BM paint. I told her that BM makes a waterborne ceiling paint, 508, and that while I did not like to use it, it covers very well and is very flat. So that is what we are using on this job.

On another job the client wanted BM, so the contracor got Ultra Spec. The ceiling paint seemed okay, nothing great, but it worked.

I guess it depends on how much reflective light a ceiling is going to get as far as how particular the coverage will be. 

futtyos


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Behr ceiling paint*



BehrProPaint said:


> There are minor differences.
> 
> With our ceiling paint it is designed to apply better to textured ceilings better than another interior flat paint would. Obviously using Behr Ultra or Marquee is massive overkill on a ceiling so I am talking about the i300 or i100 flat.
> 
> ...


Did you forget to mention Premium Plus Ceiling Paint? This would be above the grades of i300 and i100 and just below the Premium Plus Ultra.

As far as the PP Ultra Ceiling paint being a massive overkill I will mention the following. I did a job on a 480 sq ft family room that had recessed crown molding along 2 walls that were getting lights installed that would shine upwards onto the ceiling, as well as being painted blood red. Just for insurance purposes, I applied a coat of Gardz to the ceiling and walls (as well as 3 coats to the MDF crown molding!) as the paint appeard to be a cheap contractor grade paint. After rolling out 2 coats of the PPU Ceiling paint, I started brushing out the crown molding. I hadn't gone 5 feet on the crown molding when I noticed that I had spattered some red paint on the ceiling (which just had the 2nd coat put on less than an hour earlier). I figured I should get as much of the red paint off, then touch up with the ceiling paint. I got some wet paper towels and all the red paint disappeared! No touching up necessary. Try that with a cheap ceiling paint.

While I would not recommend the Behr PPU Ceiling paint for ceilings that get critical light, as it is a bit shiny, I don't think I would hesitate to use it on a kitchen or bathroom ceiling if the client wanted a flat paint instead of an eggshell or higher gloss.

One thing I forgot to mention. I like rolling the Behr PPU Ceiling paint more than any other ceiling paint I have used, except for Kilz Stainblocking Ceiling Primer and Paint which the Behr pro I spoke with at HD told me was the same as the Behr PPU Ceiling paint (Both are made by Masco I believe.), except the Kilz had a small amount of gray to it.

futtyos


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Why Behr bad rap*



CApainter said:


> Why do a lot of professional painters seem to not like BEHR, and what can be done to change their mind?


CApainter, I wonder about this as well. Sometimes I feel like I am in a parallel universe where Behr paint is okay, then I come here to educate myself on what is current in the industry and find all kinds of comments about Behr that I really have trouble relating to. To be fair, I don't do as much painting as many of those here and, as such, don't have as much opportunity to use different products as most here do, but I find it hard to believe some of what I hear as far as Behr horror stories go. I am not saying they are not true. It may be a situation similar to doing experiments in quantum physics where the observer affects the outcome of the experiment:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/02/980227055013.htm

I am not trying to be cute, either. I have a feeling that what we think affects what we do. I remember going to a pizzeria years ago to pick up a deep dish pizza. I got there early. As I sat and waited, I could hear the manager yelling and cursing at the help. I got a bad feeling. I was not in a happy mood after paying for my pizza and heading home. The pizza, which I normally enjoyed from there, tasted okay, but BOY DID I GET HEARTBURN from it!

I have done painting jobs where I have to correct ugly problems prior to the owner putting the house up for sale. I always try to use leftover paint where available. I have had some very good experiences using paint that i normally would not buy for a job. I always have a good expectation that the old paint will work and that I can make the ugly problem disappear.

There are so many variables to paint brands as well as conditions under which paint is applied that it is sometimes difficult for me to understand some comments here at PT as to what paint does what under what conditions. A few months ago I helped a painter who works 2 days a week at HD on a repaint job where the owner wanted to get house ready for sale. The painter gave me the BM Regal Select and told me where to cut in and roll. I enjoyed the experience with both cutting in and rolling. I am on a job now at a hi rise condo where the walls are being painted with Regal Select Chantilly Lace white. It is winter in Chicago, the air is dry, the air pressure in the building is very positive (meaning that the air coming thru the entrance door is blasting thru) and especially so when a balcony door is opened, making it very difficult to give the paint time to flow out before drying very quickly. Couple that with a recent comment about Regal Select (and other BM paints) being thick and drying too quickly - well, you get my drift. When a painter in Florida says he never has problems with paint drying too quickly, well duh! Florida is humid. Chicago is humid, but only in the summer, very dry in the winter.

I really enjoy reading and contributing to Paint Talk. Since I decided to not hate painting and change my mind and outlook towards it, I look forward to coming to Paint Talk every day to see what others here have to say constructively about the painting trade. Now I am going to start crying, so I have to go.............
futtyos


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

I did some benchmark testing of the Behr premium plus ultra ceiling paint a couple of months ago. It was ok. Covered ok, rolled ok, it was.....ok. OK?


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## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

Maybe it's just me but I'm sure others here have the same thoughts.......you just know good paint when you see (apply) it. I have very little knowledge about the chemistry of paint, but, the feel of it on the brush, the way it loads up on a roller and releases onto the wall, the way it dries, heck, even the way it smells tells me whether it's good or not. And, once it dries on the wall and you see the finish......how it fills in after 2 coats, the rich color it provides, the sheen is just right. These are the things that tell ME whether the paint is high quality or not.

EXAMPLE: I use ProClassic for trim and although I have coverage problems with it, when it levels out and dries, it looks like glass. A few months ago, I tried some Glidden from Wal-Mart for a small bathroom remodel. It was a semi-gloss white. Brushed on decently enough, actually looked pretty good, but, it just didn't level out to that GLASS-like finish that makes a paint job pop. The trim looks cheap with the Glidden on it. Again, I don't know the chemistry or the details of why, I just know it's not good enough.


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## Eagle Cap Painter (Nov 14, 2016)

BehrProPaint said:


> Speak your mind..
> 
> I will destroy you with scientific data not just a narrow minded opinion. I know things you don't.
> 
> So lets see what DATA you have for your argument... my guess is none.



I visibly twitch whenever someone claims that "data" or "science" is on their side but fails to provide any. (Scare-quoted because too often the person believes that data is the plural of anecdote.) I'm very interested to see what you've collected if you don't mind sharing.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Eagle Cap Painter said:


> I visibly twitch whenever someone claims that "data" or "science" is on their side but fails to provide any. (Scare-quoted because too often the person believes that data is the plural of anecdote.) I'm very interested to see what you've collected if you don't mind sharing.


I have graciously invited anyone from paintalk to visit my Hillbilly paint lab and see my Behr benchmark test results! Feel free to stop by and see actual science in action! And industry standard tests and not whatever Consumer Reports has dreamed up this year! Stop on by!


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## Eagle Cap Painter (Nov 14, 2016)

Times are not good here. The city is crumbling into ashes. It has been buried under a lava flood of taxes and frauds and maladministrations so that it has become only a study for archaeologists. Its condition is so bad that when I write about it, as I intend to do soon, nobody will believe I am telling the truth. But it is better to live here in sackcloth and ashes than to own the whole state of Ohio.


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## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

Eagle Cap Painter said:


> But it is better to live here in sackcloth and ashes than to own the whole state of Ohio.


Ouch!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Eagle Cap Painter said:


> Times are not good here. The city is crumbling into ashes. It has been buried under a lava flood of taxes and frauds and maladministrations so that it has become only a study for archaeologists. Its condition is so bad that when I write about it, as I intend to do soon, nobody will believe I am telling the truth. But it is better to live here in sackcloth and ashes than to own the whole state of Ohio.


Well good we're on the same page then! Stay there! I'm sure my amish neighbors won't miss you!


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## Eagle Cap Painter (Nov 14, 2016)

It's a quote; I'm just messing with ya. I'd love to learn from a lot of PT posters in person!


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## HC-Raad (Jan 26, 2017)

Ceiling paint is low spatter, less glare from light, dead flat, cheaper. 
Wall paint is made more durable for washing.


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