# Aura Rant



## Bighead (Nov 28, 2008)

I consider myself an experienced Aura user and the results are in: I do not like using it. Several issues stand out: 

-It dries incredibly fast so forget about cutting around decorative molding with any accuracy

-Can't roll it with a 1/2" nap unless you put on a heavy coat

-Some brushes are just not compatible

-The smell, although branded eco-friendly it packs a punch in large quantities or in enclosed spaces. It reminds me of Murphy oil soap.

-Sometimes it sticks to the tape and pulls from the wall

-Does NOT cover in one coat. I wish designers would stop telling my customer this. A third cut is sometimes required. NEVER has it covered in one coat.

-Do not trust it as a primer. BMoore fudged the truth about this product so I'm not buying the 'self priming' feature. 

-Multiply all these issues when using the Aura Bath and Spa

-Was sold the $50 'foundation' primer for a red wall then still had to apply three coats. 

-Was also sold a Base 1 for white woodwork. Four painful coats later it covered.

-My supplier recommended the Aura extender. Think about this statement. We pay a premium, but have to add something to make it work. 

In addition to the application issues it's $59 a gallon (consumer price when you include 6.25% MA tax). Is it truly worth this much? As professionals I think we are being screwed by the Benjamin Moore marketing machine. Are they selling an overpriced, over hyped product that will someday be looked down upon? Regulation and profit margin has trumped ease of use. In the future Aura will evolve, the kinks will be worked out and painters will remember these days and cringe. Until then I will not advise any of my clients to purchase Aura.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Mac? You around?


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

Much to the dismay of many here, I tinker with paint to get it the way I like it. 
I have found a small amount of water to get it more workable, makes it, well more workable. And a small amount of XIM extender works much better than what BM sells. And you get a little more distance. 

And if you do the cut totally first with the above tinkering the molding problem is solved. 

You will have to explain why you are taping the wall to me. 

2 coats is better . for sure.

Muralo deep base primers in red, yellow and blue. There. Now. 

A $20 regular primer works better, at 1/3 the cost. Tint it and use it.

Haven't notice the smell. But I'm an old guy. I used oil for years. Tastes great, less filling.

Aura at least in matte touches up pretty nicely and has great durability ( so far) . 

Is it the only product that will do these things? No , but it is at the head of a new wave that's hitting. get used to it. 

My 2 centavos.


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

*Tag me in!!!! I want some....*



Bighead said:


> Lots of correct statements....
> 
> -My supplier recommended the Aura extender. Think about this statement. We pay a premium, but have to add something to make it work.
> 
> More correct statements...


Watch out, if you say you don't like aura, even if you provide lots of valid specific reasons, some people here will accuse you of *AURA BASHING!!!!!*

You sir, are an ANTI-_AURITE!!!_

Don't forget to get your SPECIAL Aura roller covers to go with your extender. Don't forget to mix it around in the pan if the color starts to seperate.

Personally I can't stand the paint either. All though, to be fair, I haven't tried it in about 3 years, and I only ever tried the wall paint, I forget the sheen.

The thing I dislike most about all the weird caveats they throw into the equation with how you are supposed to use it the way the roller has a tendency to stick to the cut lines and mess them up.

They say either roll it right away, or wait until the cut lines are dry.

I think that is absurd. It is a brand new issue that I never had to deal with before in painting.

I don't want there to be some window of time that I need to try to rolle the paint before or after.

I want to cut walls and roll them at any point I choose. Regardless of whether the cut-lines are 10% dry, 2% dry, 70% dry, 30% dry whatever. I want to roll the paint on anywhere between 0 and 100% depending on when I am ready.

I mean ehat if you cut something in, and start rolling before it's dry, but as you go across the wall, the cut is is varying degrees of dryness? It's ridiculous.

The other thing I don't like is that Aura is supposed to have this technology where it can hold 3 times as much pigment. And it does hold more pigment, no doubt about it, the problem is the viscosity and weird rubber-cement like nature of the paint is such that as you are rolling it on, the nap on the roller is peeling it back off again, and it leaves millions of little holidays, so you have to go back and roll it again any way.

But almost any paint can cover in two coats, so what you are using Aura for is the privilege of having it be a pain in the ass to use, and cost more to boot.

And I am willing to spend top dollar on a gallon of paint, but it needs to make my job as easy and efficient as possible, and LESSEN the possibily of roller/lap marks, not increase the possibility.

I used Satin Impervo oil for many years and loved it dearly, and I still think BM regal, superspc, and ecospec are all excellent paints, but they missed the mark with Aura in my opinion.

Maybe Aura has changed, it was real new when I tried it, but somehow I doubt it.

Besides it's more fun to BASH it than like it any way!

:bangin:


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I will let the cut in dry before rolling, unless it is a small, easy to cut in area. I will sometimes add the extender, but only trimwork at this point. I use 1/2 covers. The cut in takes a little practice to get it on at the right thickness (biggest learning curve IMO). I do not expect one coat coverage ever. Have I gotten it a couple times, yep. Would I ever plan on it for a color change, no (nor would I with any product).


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## Paint Works (Aug 1, 2007)

not sure what to say, I have used over at least over 100 gallons of Aura and have not had any problems, we dont use extender or special rollers and we have done additions, two coats of aura with no primer and the job came out great. We have done many jobs this way. Maybe just a chevy/ ford thing. I dont love the stuff, but haven't had the problems you have.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

To be honest I haven't used it. There are way too many good paints for less money. Given time I'm sure they will fix the problems people have with it though, I don't think they will lower the price because there always has to be that (special) paint that everyone aspires to have.Don't you know we need this paint to look up to guy's.


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## jason123 (Jul 2, 2009)

I didn't mind it I found it solved my probs with red.It did at times allow for one coat for me! It covered really wel at times. But yellow it failed miserably.
I found it to sort of frame the wall maybe because it dried so fast.
I also found it funny that im buying a premium product but then have to buy the extender.. In life it does seem the more pricey things do require more care!


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

i use aura a lot. 

its my first choice.

i dont like the covers, so i use soft woven, or high capacity 3/8.

i use the extra firm brushes also.

i dont care about the cost, the customer pays for materials, it never comes out of my pocket.

i dont use much of the semi gloss. typically satin on trim, matte on walls.

imo, aura is the best paint on the market.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I used it once, had to 3 coat a red over a light tan. Same color with matte would have been fine with two. Application wasn't the issue nor the cost, but it has to cover or I won't use it.


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## kanadaeh (Oct 4, 2007)

Bighead said:


> I consider myself an experienced Aura user and the results are in: I do not like using it. Several issues stand out:
> 
> -It dries incredibly fast so forget about cutting around decorative molding with any accuracy
> 
> ...


I've experienced the above and made the decision not to use Aura again. It is sad as I find we are moving away from the BM products all together because of our Aura experience. I have tried it more than once too. It's frustrating. I feel as if they are insulting our intelligence as painters. I can see Joe homeowner using it and not knowing the difference but did they think the pros would not know? Or maybe our sales are not important enough. I cringe when a homeowner provides Aura with a proud smile like they just became a member of some prestigious class and all I can think is how can I add 20% to the price to use this stuff.


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## GMack (Jan 18, 2008)

Bighead said:


> I consider myself an experienced Aura user and the results are in: I do not like using it. Several issues stand out:
> 
> _We've used as much Aura as anyone and have had a few issues with it but, overall, I would call it the best paint on the market. It's the sole reason it would be difficult for me to move to other brands if I wanted to._
> 
> ...


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## ROOMINADAY (Mar 20, 2009)

*Aura Fan*

When AURA came out I was not a fan, and little by little I have been using it more. I have used about

Now I am kicking myself on how much money I have lost in time not using it. My last 3 jobs were bathrooms, 2 new drywall which I did the taping and one with extensive repairs. I used the Bath and Spa for the all 3 of them. The Bath and Spa touches up great, 2 coats, no problem. 

I tried a nicely broke in 1/2" European sleeve (the one with strings) today for my prime coat (Bath and Spa on new drywall) and left a quality finish. I will use it tomorrow for my top coat now. 

The time it saves me verses using primer for new drywall/ repairs/ spot priming is great. I pay $56/ gallon here in Canada with my contractors discount of 15%. It's $66 retail here! 

I want to switch to it for all my work....just have to get over the mental block of the price!


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

We have used hundreds of gallons of Aura 
and painters of different skil level had some practice on it.
There is a bit of an adjustment, 
but overall this is the best paint we tried and we tried many.
I am not sure about all these issues, this is not BEHR


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

behr ultra is better than most paints at paint stores.

nice stuff and economical.

several homeowners have provided the paint lately (probably due to a promotion at hd)

when i saw the behr label, i cringed.

the exterior deeptone behr ultra was a dream to work with, covered great and the whole house looks fantastic.

the same went for a foyer i did with it.

when i compared the results, workability and price, it was a winner.

my crew agreed.

(white sg didnt cover an existing white though,,,,,nothings perfect)


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

high fibre said:


> behr ultra is better than most paints at paint stores.
> 
> nice stuff and economical.
> 
> ...


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## Bighead (Nov 28, 2008)

Was told today that a new formula has arrived. Hopefully some of these issues are resolved.


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## jason123 (Jul 2, 2009)

Im with George on this one

Can you add a quote with "edit" ?


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

jason123 said:


> Im with George on this one
> 
> Can you add a quote with "edit" ?


You can click quote, cut the quote, select cancel then edit your response and paste the quote.

Other than that there is not a one click to insert a quote into the edit.


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## xr4ticrew (Nov 24, 2007)

Have used a ton of Aura...definitely does not cover in 1 coat,(sometimes close though) I've never met the paint that does. However, it's great for colors that usually take 3 coats, they cover in 2. We're doing a Domino's pizza NC job, and the Yellow and Red base are great, these are the kind of nightmare colors that make you run for the hills, with regular paint it's clear with all tint; the Aura base coats cover and look like finish coats!!!

I can see people having trouble with dry time on the cuts, but you get used to working quick and not over-working your lines. Why are you going over cuts so many times anyway? 

Never understood the problems with cutting then rolling, we always cut first, then roll and never had trouble with half-dry cut lines. 

We don't always use it but usually try to...


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## Andyman (Feb 21, 2009)

I was doing a commercial office the other night and the spec was Aura. Never used it before then. I was already irritated with the $51 price tag. At that cost it should paint itself. You gotta like designers and their specs. $102 in paint for some small ceiling work. Soon after I began cutting, I realized I didn't like it and had to do 2 coats of it in the end. I would use my PM400 anyday for $20 a gallon and much more painter friendly. Especially for CEILINGS. But the good old designers are stuck on the old Benny Moore, even though it was a SW color.... 2 thumbs down.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

Andyman said:


> I was doing a commercial office the other night and the spec was Aura. Never used it before then. I was already irritated with the $51 price tag. At that cost it should paint itself. You gotta like designers and their specs. $102 in paint for some small ceiling work. Soon after I began cutting, I realized I didn't like it and had to do 2 coats of it in the end. I would use my PM400 anyday for $20 a gallon and much more painter friendly. Especially for CEILINGS. But the good old designers are stuck on the old Benny Moore, even though it was a SW color.... 2 thumbs down.


It is really hard make such a blank statement like that after using it one time...
Why would use Aura on a ceiling? Did you charge the client for 20$ in paint? and eat the other 30$?? 
You labor rate, profit and overhead are the same with Aura and you charge the client for the paint they "spec'd" pretty simple.


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## mattyhabs (Jun 10, 2007)

I like Aura alot, but i don't use it for every situation, ceilings being one of those. I've never been completely happy with 1 coat, which is fine since I have never bid it as 1 coat. It's a 2 Coat paint in my opinion.

If you expect it to be a miracle paint, like i also did the 1st time I used it, you will be disapointed, there is no miracle paint, but the more Iuse it the more I like it. It is a little thick out of the can for cuts, but add a little extender and its easy to use. Yeah it's one of the more expensive paints, but it's worth it to me.


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## T200 (Nov 11, 2007)

I've had good success with Aura. I generally use it on jobs where I would have formerly primed first (burgandy to tan) and get good results with 2 coats.

One of my painters gets good 2-coat coverage on dark-color repaints. Another one did two jobs and had to apply three coats. He was spreading it out too much (his coats were too thin). I got him to apply it a little thicker and now he can get 2-coat coverage.

I'm wondering about BM's claims for exterior Aura. The rep. tells me it's competitive with SW's Duration in terms of durability/longevity. I haven't sold any exterior Aura but used some once (finished the high parts for a customer who'd done the low parts with Aura). It feels thin, brushes on like butter and seems to cover well. But it seems so thin compared to Duration.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

T200 said:


> I've had good success with Aura. I generally use it on jobs where I would have formerly primed first (burgandy to tan) and get good results with 2 coats.
> 
> One of my painters gets good 2-coat coverage on dark-color repaints. Another one did two jobs and had to apply three coats. He was spreading it out too much (his coats were too thin). I got him to apply it a little thicker and now he can get 2-coat coverage.
> 
> I'm wondering about BM's claims for exterior Aura. The rep. tells me it's competitive with SW's Duration in terms of durability/longevity. I haven't sold any exterior Aura but used some once (finished the high parts for a customer who'd done the low parts with Aura). It feels thin, brushes on like butter and seems to cover well. But it seems so thin compared to Duration.


Yes the exterior IS thinner than Duration, BUT your spread rate is much further, and hiding is excellent ( keep in mind what shape the substrate is in aswell )


As far as the interior....you cant make a decision on it based on one or two uses. There is definitely a learning curve with it. (hence the enclosed application guide attached to the lid ) The tricks that i've found using it.

1) cuts must be dry before rolling, cut the entire room first, usually by the time you're finished, you can start rolling where you first cut.

2) dont back roll it any further than your last pass. What I mean, roll out a section floor to ceiling, roll your next part floor to ceiling, only go back and "lay off" the last area that you did to get rid of ropes, no further back.

3) Use a good tight nap 3/8" roller ( I like Wooster Pro Doo-Z or the BM equivalent ) For some reason unknown to my pea sized brain, anything higher in nap pulls the paint and decreases hide. I was really surprised how well the 3/8" nap works, stick with it, once the roller is loaded properly it works great.

4) SLOW DOWN!! Not a ton, but get used to cutting shorter distances than you could with ( insert any other paint ). Make your cuts heavy enough to cover so you cant see through it, even if brush strokes are still present, dont back brush it. It will level out and blend ( hardest part for me )

5) Do not add water!! A bit of extender is fine for those tall walls, water is a no no.

6) Dont use Aura for your first time ever on a job!!! Theres no better way to get pissed of than doing that. Talk to your rep or store about sampling a couple gallons to use at YOUR house. Learn to use it where its not costing you or your company money.


Im not a painter, but I can paint ( just not fast enough or well enough to have a painting business which is why I do the store thing ) Getting a feel for the paint is the hardest part, switching your style is harder.


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## PaintinNC (Dec 20, 2009)

Seems like to me if something is that expensive and that "tricky" to use it should be a no brainer, don't use it. You shouldn't have to jump through hoops and hold your head just right to paint a wall. I wish I could pour some "extender" (ie water) into a container and sell it for 10 bucks at my store. If the paint needs it it should be in there to begin with. I might get blasted for saying this because I am a SW guy, but Duration IS better than any BM exterior and since it came out I have never had a user say that it was "hard to paint with".


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Well since you seem to think extender and water are the same thing, I'm not going to waste my time explaining. So I guess MEK could substitute for thinner too in your eyes.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

PaintinNC said:


> Seems like to me if something is that expensive and that "tricky" to use it should be a no brainer, don't use it. You shouldn't have to jump through hoops and hold your head just right to paint a wall. I wish I could pour some "extender" (ie water) into a container and sell it for 10 bucks at my store. If the paint needs it it should be in there to begin with. I might get blasted for saying this because I am a SW guy, but Duration IS better than any BM exterior and since it came out I have never had a user say that it was "hard to paint with".


Have you read the extender bottle more than water in there... and there are issue with Duration from what I have heard... You put any paint out in the hot sun and its glue I don't care what you have in the bucket...

No tricks for Aura you just need to know how to paint... pretty simple..


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## PaintinNC (Dec 20, 2009)

Ok, I wasn't specific. I KNOW that BM "Extender" isn't water, probably just private label Floetrol made for BM. Paint should work right out of the bucket, that was my point. BTW, of course you shouldn't paint in the direct hot sun, common sense, and every paint bucket I have ever read, says not to do that.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

The Aura extender is not flotrol. It is resin based to maintain the chemistry of Aura. Remember for Aura to work properly, it actually needs a certain amount of tint in each gallon. The extender helps ensure that the chemistry ratios stay correct. If you remember your chemistry classes, you could see the the ColorLock thing is a chemical reaction and for it to work well, certain ratios of reagents should be maintained to have the best results.

Duration exterior is nice, but I do not like it for doors. Aura works better there. 

The learning curve for Aura is not so steep as to be a hassle, just something to be aware of going in.


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## T200 (Nov 11, 2007)

NCPaint1 said:


> Yes the exterior IS thinner than Duration, BUT your spread rate is much further, and hiding is excellent ( keep in mind what shape the substrate is in aswell )


Yes, I was very impressed with its hiding ability.
But what I wonder about is its long-term durability, as compared to Duration.
I've got some 5-year-old Duration exterior paint jobs that still look great (my own house being one of them).

The Ben Moore rep showed me the pictures of the painted boards left in a California desert for a long time and touted Aura as long-lasting and durable. But I like to see it for myself. (I've seen some of those Consumer Reports ratings calling [insert paint company name here] paint the best, and my experience doesn't support what they say.)


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## slickshift (Apr 8, 2007)

Bighead said:


> I consider myself an experienced Aura user and the results are in: I do not like using it.


Fair 'nuff



Bighead said:


> Several issues stand out:


Always like to hear feedback, "good" or "bad"



Bighead said:


> -It dries incredibly fast so forget about cutting around decorative molding with any accuracy


I can see how cutting in complex areas _could_ be an issue, as _I know_ doing ornate trim work or something like built-in shelves where you are constantly dipping into areas you did a few minutes ago can be with the product
A six-panel door is even an issue if the tech brushing is the 1/2 hour kinda tech
Spraying these problem areas is also an issue, and requires a delicate touch, a FF tip, and light coats (even on the aforementioned 6-panels)



Bighead said:


> -Can't roll it with a 1/2" nap unless you put on a heavy coat


Although (traditionally) my preferred sleeve is a 1/2", I've not tried it with Aura
With Aura's tendency to sag with over-application, I have been hesitant to try it
But with it's excellent coverage and hide I've been fine with the 3/8, and production has not suffered in the least, so again, I haven't bothered to try 1/2"



Bighead said:


> -Some brushes are just not compatible


This is the first I've heard of this
However, my experience with the reformulated BM Regal Semi-Gloss and an Extra-Firm Wooster (in that case the brush basically became a "Paint Spatula") would lead me to believe their are a few types of brushes that aren't compatible with the product

Also my experience with some roller sleeves and Aura just adds to that
Actually, I should mention that here:

Aura does not take kindly to cheap sleeves, or fancy ones
Before the latest round of (EPA-Mandated) massive reformulations (heavy on solids) and water-based tint systems (super-quick drying) etc., my favorite covers were "woolies" or 50/50s (poly/wool)
Pricey, yes, but IMO worth it (depending upon app.)

So...two years ago I was figuring out the Aura Int. and digging it
I figured "by the book" I had it down
I then figured the wool or 50/50 sleeves (my ace up the _sleeve_...so to speak) would K/A
So I tried it

I didn't get through half a wall (and a small one at that) with my SW 50/50 before I threw it in the garbage
Now this is coming from a frugal "Swamp Yankee" who washes his covers and liners whenever possible
It killed me, but it was that bad

That having been said, I've had no issues with White Doves, Shed Resistants, Aura, or any other premium sleeve 



Bighead said:


> -The smell, although branded eco-friendly it packs a punch in large quantities or in enclosed spaces. It reminds me of Murphy oil soap.


Smell has nothing to do with eco-friendly (or VOCs)
Cow plops (or any other manure) are extremely eco-friendly, but in fact (at least to me) do have a bit of an odor
I tend to avoid the Cow Plop scented candles at the Cape Cod Candle Company, so I might be mistaken in this



Bighead said:


> -Sometimes it sticks to the tape and pulls from the wall


I don't use tape



Bighead said:


> -Does NOT cover in one coat. I wish designers would stop telling my customer this. A third cut is sometimes required. NEVER has it covered in one coat.


Yes there is no such thing as a "One-Coat" paint
BM will attest to the fact that Aura "might" cover in one coat
I've not seen it, as same (or close enough) color maint. coats I won't spec Aura unless there are other considerations



Bighead said:


> -Do not trust it as a primer. BMoore fudged the truth about this product so I'm not buying the 'self priming' feature.


I don't hesitate to prime repairs with Aura
As mentioned in previuos posts, it really can take a chunk out of production
But basically, as with all "self-priming" paints, the "self-priming" refers to ideal situations (bare substrate with no complications)
Not water stains or wall covering removal (etc.)



Bighead said:


> -Multiply all these issues when using the Aura Bath and Spa


A new kid on the block, I've found B&S to excel in the areas promoted



Bighead said:


> -Was sold the $50 'foundation' primer for a red wall then still had to apply three coats.


That, I don't get
I've never, ever, needed more than two coats tops even with nuclear reds



Bighead said:


> -Was also sold a Base 1 for white woodwork. Four painful coats later it covered.


I'd hope it was a base 1 tinted to white
With Aura (and the like) even white must be tinted
A plain un-tinted base would not cover like an un-tinted base 1 WB Impervo would (which is not saying a lot)



Bighead said:


> -My supplier recommended the Aura extender. Think about this statement. We pay a premium, but have to add something to make it work.


I've thought about, but not yet used the extender when painting complex trim or doors
So far, I've bit the bullet and concentrated on speed and not had a problem (though amittedly I still tend to Regal Semi- or Satin Perv trim)
I have recommended to others not so fast to paint the inside, go off to another project, then come back to face



Bighead said:


> In addition to the application issues it's $59 a gallon (consumer price when you include 6.25% MA tax). Is it truly worth this much? As professionals I think we are being screwed by the Benjamin Moore marketing machine. Are they selling an overpriced, over hyped product that will someday be looked down upon? Regulation and profit margin has trumped ease of use. In the future Aura will evolve, the kinks will be worked out and painters will remember these days and cringe. Until then I will not advise any of my clients to purchase Aura.


Please keep in mind the other attributes of Aura
Neither BM or any of it's suppliers claim a true "one-coat"
And any "most cases" scenario is pushing it (unless it's really a close color)
But I've never needed more than two coats (as opposed to a tinted primer plus two or three premium top coats total of maybe four coats) for even the most brilliant reds
(not sure what's up with your issues on same)

Then there are the other bennies:
True, non-fading colors, burnish resistance like you wouldn't believe, touch up of even eggshell like is only found in heaven (think a pat of butter on a hot baked potato), wash-ability of even the flat (matte), to which I can personally attest to*

Learning curve?
Yes, there is one
But pretty much any coating has one at this point (due to EPA mandates)
Difficult?...well...

There's a reason DIYers took to Aura long before Pros did
"Cut a wall, roll a wall" for eggshell, well...DIYers never did that anyway
"roll over an eggshell holiday while still wet"
DIYers never did that anyway
"Loading up in the corners (Aura=sag)"
DIYers never did that anyway


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## BC_Painter (Feb 14, 2010)

As far as Aura goes, I'm not a huge fan, but I don't hate it either. I have used it a few times with decent results with some of the same issues as described here.

One product i will NEVER use again however is the Benjamin Moore "WaterBorne" Ceiling Paint.

To my understanding it uses the same tinting/chemistry setup as Aura, and the dealer told me the key is to not overwork it. and for something that dries quickly I agreed. I primed a ceiling and walls, and used this product over top of the primer. I tried everything from straight spraying it on, to cutting and rolling even a spray and fast backroll, with a guy working behind me. No matter what I did, you could see flashing from either spraying or rolling.

The dealer accused me of overworking the product and that was the ONLY way that it would not dry dead flat. Apparently nobody EVER had the issue but me including average homeowners.

You can guess my displeasure to this statement since I tried anything I could think of, assuming it was human error on my part and a learning curve. 6 gallond and $300 later i said screw it, matched it at Cloverdale in Procoat flat, and $40 later the ceiling looked perfect.

I don't know how to overwork it any less than spraying and not touching it, or spray and backroll once quick, working my way to working it more ( and it looked better the more i worked it without going overboard actually ) but if EVERYONE can do it but me either I should get out of the business, or somebody has too much confidence in an extremely hard to use product.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

BC_Painter said:


> As far as Aura goes, I'm not a huge fan, but I don't hate it either. I have used it a few times with decent results with some of the same issues as described here.
> 
> One product i will NEVER use again however is the Benjamin Moore "WaterBorne" Ceiling Paint.
> 
> ...


WB ceiling paint has been the best ceiling paint or us in repaints where no rollers lines show up on large foyer / family room ceilings... Touches up great to if you have to go back and patch something etc... 

dead flat which what we like when it comes to ceilings..


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## BC_Painter (Feb 14, 2010)

How often do you use it with light bouncing straight off of it?

Most of my ceilings you wouldn't notice the flashing this ceiling had ( it was a flat ceiling with a loooong distance to huge open windows sun shining straight off of it into your eyes ) 

Looking from the ground up it looked perfect but as soon as the light hit it on the angle it looked horrible no matter what I did. Most jobs it probably would have looked perfect, but not here.

It's good to get some information from someone who managed good results from this.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

BC_Painter said:


> How often do you use it with light bouncing straight off of it?
> 
> Most of my ceilings you wouldn't notice the flashing this ceiling had ( it was a flat ceiling with a loooong distance to huge open windows sun shining straight off of it into your eyes )
> 
> ...


a lot of our suburban homes in the Chicago area in the higher end towns have big expansive ceilings with big windows usually facing south to let as much light in... we have found its works best for us due to being dead flat. i have never sprayed it just rolled over perviously painted ceilings. we usually tint it to white dove I try and not to use 01 white on ceilings.


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## BC_Painter (Feb 14, 2010)

That sucks, we tried cutting and rolling it as I said, and it was 1/2 tinted to the wall colour ( kind of a yellowish colour ) I wonder if that had anything to do with it since you've had good results with it.

Thanks for the input


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## ROOMINADAY (Mar 20, 2009)

MAK-Deco said:


> WB ceiling paint has been the best ceiling paint or us in repaints where no rollers lines show up on large foyer / family room ceilings... Touches up great to if you have to go back and patch something etc...
> 
> dead flat which what we like when it comes to ceilings..



Mak_Deco

I have just received two projects for problem ceilings that I budgeted for 2 coats of the BM Ceiling Paint on based on it being self priming and dead flat. BM told me you could technically roll half a ceiling, stop in the middle, go for lunch and start back up with no visible issues! The 1st ceiling I have is an open concept with about 600 Sq feet of 8' ceiling that is (bathed in afternoon sun) the HO painted (tried to skip primer) over new drywall with paint (looks like crap)! The second is another open concept cathedral ceiling (630 Sq Feet) which is a modular home that are sprayed with a mix of 50/50 paint primer when they are built. It looks good until you try to roll paint on it. I re-prime these type of ceilings now and would like to add the new BM Ceiling Paint into my arsenal - Would these examples make a good case for the product? BC Paints comments make me question my decision - I have great success with AURA otherwise!


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

ROOMINADAY said:


> Mak_Deco
> 
> I have just received two projects for problem ceilings that I budgeted for 2 coats of the BM Ceiling Paint on based on it being self priming and dead flat. BM told me you could technically roll half a ceiling, stop in the middle, go for lunch and start back up with no visible issues! The 1st ceiling I have is an open concept with about 600 Sq feet of 8' ceiling that is (bathed in afternoon sun) the HO painted (tried to skip primer) over new drywall with paint (looks like crap)! The second is another open concept cathedral ceiling (630 Sq Feet) which is a modular home that are sprayed with a mix of 50/50 paint primer when they are built. It looks good until you try to roll paint on it. I re-prime these type of ceilings now and would like to add the new BM Ceiling Paint into my arsenal - Would these examples make a good case for the product? BC Paints comments make me question my decision - I have great success with AURA otherwise!


I am not sure i would use it on bare drywall or as a primer...

I have noticed that it stays wet a lot longer on ceilings that are seal well and dry out even better. But yes I have had good results with touching up with.

I think you should be fine in what you described.. i will be interested in hearing of your results.


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## Andyman (Feb 21, 2009)

You are right, I shouldn't dog on a paint after it's first use, but I figure paying $51 a gallon why would I need to add anything. Serisouly? I need to buy more and add to the paint to make it brush right at $51 a gallon, call it what you want my my PM400 doesn't need any mixing for $20 a gallon. I made money on the deal, don't worry. Just ridiculous that this "great" paint needs a special lesson on what you need to add and how to brush it.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Andyman said:


> You are right, I shouldn't dog on a paint after it's first use, but I figure paying $51 a gallon why would I need to add anything. Serisouly? I need to buy more and add to the paint to make it brush right at $51 a gallon, call it what you want my my PM400 doesn't need any mixing for $20 a gallon. I made money on the deal, don't worry. Just ridiculous that this "great" paint needs a special lesson on what you need to add and how to brush it.



Its a product that is different from any other product out there. Just like when any new product comes out, you still need to get a feel for it. Now you see why painting is a "profession". If these new products were simple to use, so that anyone could get great results......why would a H.O ever hire a painter?


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## PaintinNC (Dec 20, 2009)

NCPaint1 said:


> Its a product that is different from any other product out there. Just like when any new product comes out, you still need to get a feel for it. Now you see why painting is a "profession". If these new products were simple to use, so that anyone could get great results......why would a H.O ever hire a painter?



I guess that BM Kool Aid must taste good..... I wish I could get "Pros" to pay $50 plus dollars a gallon for difficult to use paint. In 12 years of selling paint I have never heard a contractor say, "man that paint is too easy to use, do you have anything more expensive and harder to use?" 

Bubba, people get "Pros" to paint their house because they either have enough money to pay for it or not enough time to do it themselves. Painting is an "opportunity cost" service. I could paint my house myself, but I can make more money, or spend my time better, doing something else, so that is why most painters are hired.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

PaintinNC said:


> I guess that BM Kool Aid must taste good..... I wish I could get "Pros" to pay $50 plus dollars a gallon for difficult to use paint. In 12 years of selling paint I have never heard a contractor say, "man that paint is too easy to use, do you have anything more expensive and harder to use?"
> 
> Bubba, people get "Pros" to paint their house because they either have enough money to pay for it or not enough time to do it themselves. Painting is an "opportunity cost" service. I could paint my house myself, but I can make more money, or spend my time better, doing something else, so that is why most painters are hired.


I have to agree with the 2nd half of your post.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

Andyman said:


> You are right, I shouldn't dog on a paint after it's first use, but I figure paying $51 a gallon why would I need to add anything. Serisouly? I need to buy more and add to the paint to make it brush right at $51 a gallon, call it what you want my my PM400 doesn't need any mixing for $20 a gallon. I made money on the deal, don't worry. Just ridiculous that this "great" paint needs a special lesson on what you need to add and how to brush it.


I don't add anything to it for interior... exterior if its hot I might..


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I said Aura has a learning curve. Once you figure it out though (which if it takes too long you need to put the lacquer down for a while), it is sweet to use. I told some people from a competing paint company this and I will say it again: When I paint a wall with Aura, it puts a smile on my face. For me, nothing else goes on quite like it. It is the best balance of thickness, smoothness, coverage, etc. Will I find certain applications I do not care for it in, probably. But so far, over all, it is the best wall paint I have used bar none.


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## slickshift (Apr 8, 2007)

BC_Painter0 said:


> As far as Aura goes, I'm not a huge fan, but I don't hate it either. I have used it a few times with decent results with some of the same issues as described here.
> 
> One product i will NEVER use again however is the Benjamin Moore "WaterBorne" Ceiling Paint.
> 
> ...


The WB Ceiling Paint is truly a great product
...when trying to tint a ceiling paint, or in other instances 

I used make fun of the "ultra-flat" label (it'll raise your ceiling by 3 cm!}
...'till I started using it
(it really is flatter than flat...and tints beautifully)

However, it does show it's shortcomings rather quickly when trying to paint over 12 year old "ceiling paint" or 8 year old "primer only" ceilings
In those cases, it can truly suck

Not sure what's up when properly primed/sealed in those apps. described above
But the "new Aura-Based" WB Ceiling Paint does excel in many areas
Enough to be the "go-to" ceiling paint for many premium painting companies in my area
(admittedly some of which are the colored ceiling variety, though not all I might add)


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## JohnAnderson (Mar 7, 2010)

I had my first experience with Aura - it is a nightmare should be avoided at all costs. After three coats in a foyer with bright natural light, the roller marks are obvious after drying. In the lower foyer, I used a regular BM paint and it went on perfectly. I should have never let the sales dude talk me into this one. Not sure what to do next...


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

Here in SoCal I got to be one of the dummy's that went to the Pomona plant and try it out. They had all these sheets of drywall out, and three different paints that we had no idea what they were. We tried all three paints then the rep guy would ask what one did we like, how come and other things. Pretty much the team I was on all picked Aura every time. Was a pretty fun day and we got paid 200 bucks 

Been using it ever since and I'm a big fan of it. Only draw back is it drys pretty quick, but with a touch of water and the right roller it has never been a issue for me. I also use a stiffer brush, lamskin rollers. Just like anything you need to plan your wall out, how your going to tackle it then go for it.

It has some real great quality's or at least they claim it does, has not been out long enough yet to really see if they are true. Color retention, great coverage and durability. For me it covers great, better then the regal and more-guard lines.

So if it failed you the first time, try adjusting a few things and it just might turn you into a fan. 

Pat


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

> I could paint my house myself, but I can make more money, or spend my time better, doing something else, so that is why most painters are hired.


Sure, anyone can paint if they had the time....
6,000 apprenticeship hours and or years of experience mean nothing.
We just paint for people that have no time but they could if they wanted to.
How come it takes so much to hire a good painters then?


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

George Z said:


> Sure, anyone can paint if they had the time....
> 6,000 apprenticeship hours and or years of experience mean nothing.
> We just paint for people that have no time but they could if they wanted to.
> How come it takes so much to hire a good painters then?


This is true. Its kinda funny when H.O's come in my shop and tell me to give them the best product to make their paint job look great. I get a weird look when I hand them a nice brush, good roller cover and frame, and a nice extension pole. They always say, "no I meant the paint". I just laugh and say "well if you cant cut a straight line, and roll the walls proper, it doesnt matter if I sell you $6 or $60 paint" :yes:


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## audra jones (Apr 10, 2010)

Just did a kitchen - old fashioned brush and roll. Used Aura semi=gloss Marscapone (white) on the trim. It took FOUR COATS to cover (new trim, primed with fresh-start). The stuff is what I call "drip and dry"- it really wants to sag in the grooves, but dries so quickly that by the time you are done with the window and looking over your work to catch those drips they are totally solid. 

Maybe it'd cover better with a sprayer, but I certainly wouldn't recommend it for brushed trim. 

Perhaps not worth the money.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

audra jones said:


> Just did a kitchen - old fashioned brush and roll. Used Aura semi=gloss Marscapone (white) on the trim. It took FOUR COATS to cover (new trim, primed with fresh-start). The stuff is what I call "drip and dry"- it really wants to sag in the grooves, but dries so quickly that by the time you are done with the window and looking over your work to catch those drips they are totally solid.
> 
> Maybe it'd cover better with a sprayer, but I certainly wouldn't recommend it for brushed trim.
> 
> Perhaps not worth the money.


This sounds just about unbelievable. :blink:


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

audra jones said:


> Just did a kitchen - old fashioned brush and roll. Used Aura semi=gloss Marscapone (white) on the trim. It took FOUR COATS to cover (new trim, primed with fresh-start). The stuff is what I call "drip and dry"- it really wants to sag in the grooves, but dries so quickly that by the time you are done with the window and looking over your work to catch those drips they are totally solid.
> 
> Maybe it'd cover better with a sprayer, but I certainly wouldn't recommend it for brushed trim.
> 
> Perhaps not worth the money.


4 coats? Are you a professional? You do understand that it should be applied at a spread rate of 400ft per gallon, not the 800ft or so that I'm sure you tried to streatch it to. Also, if you add water that doesn't help either. 4 coats is absolutely unheard of. I have never, ever had a product from any manufacturer take 4 coats. Next time I would hire a professional if I were you.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

NCPaint1 said:


> 4 coats? Are you a professional? You do understand that it should be applied at a spread rate of 400ft per gallon, not the 800ft or so that I'm sure you tried to streatch it to. Also, if you add water that doesn't help either. 4 coats is absolutely unheard of. I have never, ever had a product from any manufacturer take 4 coats. Next time I would hire a professional if I were you.



He's not the only one that has had that complaint - I hear it quite often at the local BM paint store. The whites are just not that great at covering. I have to admit that 4 coats is allot. 

Pat


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

Huh. I haven't tried the Aura paint line. Maybe this is a good thing.


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

nEighter said:


> Huh. I haven't tried the Aura paint line. Maybe this is a good thing.


Great product for spraying trim. Works nicely with a brush as well as it levels out quite nicely....I tried it on my bannister with a brush and it looks like I sprayed it. 

I've just read through this thread and i'm not sure about it drying too fast...it seemed to me like it dried only marginally faster than most of the other paints i've used.


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## Proline (Mar 9, 2010)

I have used it, but personally found it to be "nothing special". The wall still took 2 coats. It noticed does dry faster in cool air, mabey this was a factor in your problem "audra jones".


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

NCPaint1 said:


> 4 coats? Are you a professional? You do understand that it should be applied at a spread rate of 400ft per gallon, not the 800ft or so that I'm sure you tried to streatch it to. Also, if you add water that doesn't help either. 4 coats is absolutely unheard of. I have never, ever had a product from any manufacturer take 4 coats. Next time I would hire a professional if I were you.


 

Have you tried Behr? 4 coats is the norm:yes:


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

audra jones said:


> Just did a kitchen - old fashioned brush and roll. Used Aura semi=gloss Marscapone (white) on the trim. It took FOUR COATS to cover (new trim, primed with fresh-start). The stuff is what I call "drip and dry"- it really wants to sag in the grooves, but dries so quickly that by the time you are done with the window and looking over your work to catch those drips they are totally solid.
> 
> Maybe it'd cover better with a sprayer, but I certainly wouldn't recommend it for brushed trim.
> 
> Perhaps not worth the money.


Funny,
we are just doing 150 doors, frames and sidelites in a health centre/clinic.
Brush and roll
Works great, 4-5 painters work on this.
I think I disagree, the paiint is amazing.
We use Aura Satin, not semi


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

I like Aura satin on trim, but am on the fence if it is a little too soft for hard wear areas. Seems like WB Impervo is just a little harder.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Really? When I tested it, of all the trim paint I tested WB Impervo seemed the softest. I guess since we can only test some things subjectively, stuff like that can happen.

I tested by putting trim paint over high gloss oil to test adhesion and when trying to chip off the samples it seemed like you could get a pretty good feel for how hard a sample was as well.


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

do they sell quarts of this stuff???


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## BC_Painter (Feb 14, 2010)

Dave Mac said:


> do they sell quarts of this stuff???


To test?

I've bought quarts for things like a door etc.

My rep gave me a couple gallons free to try out since I did quite a bit of the previous topline back in the day ( collections in canada )


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## kanadaeh (Oct 4, 2007)

I am having a bad experience with aura. We are painting a 5000 square ft condo and the paint store talks the homeowner into aura. He tells her its magical and it will cover in one coat with less work for the painters so she's requesting a credit. I give the spec sheet and explain bm states primer and two coats and will not stand behind anything less. It also states 350 square ft per gallon although I think it's closer to 300. I explain there is more work involved because it is a thicker paint and you have to scrub it on and for that reason it is difficult to get the crisp cuts. So she takes the paint stores advice and uses aura. She asks us to put one coat on a room for her to see it. My painter just called, homeowner showed up seen the one coat did not cover and she lost it. Said we did not know how to use paint and she was bringing the paint store guy in. Giving me a headache. I think it is dishonest when the stores are promising one coat with less work.


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

Totally agree- The paint store mgr should get a rant and be told to read the sheet. 
BTW- I almost always loosen up Aura with just a bit of water , and their extender does really help. My store will put it in when mixing if I ask.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

kanadaeh said:


> I am having a bad experience with aura. We are painting a 5000 square ft condo and the paint store talks the homeowner into aura. He tells her its magical and it will cover in one coat with less work for the painters so she's requesting a credit. I give the spec sheet and explain bm states primer and two coats and will not stand behind anything less. It also states 350 square ft per gallon although I think it's closer to 300. I explain there is more work involved because it is a thicker paint and you have to scrub it on and for that reason it is difficult to get the crisp cuts. So she takes the paint stores advice and uses aura. She asks us to put one coat on a room for her to see it. My painter just called, homeowner showed up seen the one coat did not cover and she lost it. Said we did not know how to use paint and she was bringing the paint store guy in. Giving me a headache. I think it is dishonest when the stores are promising one coat with less work.


It sounds like the local paint store employee needs some additional training.

IMO one of the biggest problems a pro painter can have is an uninformed paint store employee spouting off his/her beliefs to your customers.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

Ugh. Paint store needs to make that right. Good luck. They may have lost a bigger customer than the HO....


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

kanadaeh said:


> I am having a bad experience with aura. We are painting a 5000 square ft condo and the paint store talks the homeowner into aura. He tells her its magical and it will cover in one coat with less work for the painters so she's requesting a credit. I give the spec sheet and explain bm states primer and two coats and will not stand behind anything less. It also states 350 square ft per gallon although I think it's closer to 300. I explain there is more work involved because it is a thicker paint and you have to scrub it on and for that reason it is difficult to get the crisp cuts. So she takes the paint stores advice and uses aura. She asks us to put one coat on a room for her to see it. My painter just called, homeowner showed up seen the one coat did not cover and she lost it. Said we did not know how to use paint and she was bringing the paint store guy in. Giving me a headache. I think it is dishonest when the stores are promising one coat with less work.


You do you have a contract - right? What was stated - one coat or two? Seems to me if you explained your position and put the scope specs into the contract (which you had the customer sign) she has no business taking it up with you. She needs to be pissed off at the supplier. 

If a supplier put me in that position with a customer I'd be on the phone not only to him but his district rep and the company HQ. It would also be the very last time I'd do business with him.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

kanadaeh said:


> I am having a bad experience with aura. We are painting a 5000 square ft condo and the paint store talks the homeowner into aura. He tells her its magical and it will cover in one coat with less work for the painters so she's requesting a credit. I give the spec sheet and explain bm states primer and two coats and will not stand behind anything less. It also states 350 square ft per gallon although I think it's closer to 300. I explain there is more work involved because it is a thicker paint and you have to scrub it on and for that reason it is difficult to get the crisp cuts. So she takes the paint stores advice and uses aura. She asks us to put one coat on a room for her to see it. My painter just called, homeowner showed up seen the one coat did not cover and she lost it. Said we did not know how to use paint and she was bringing the paint store guy in. Giving me a headache. I think it is dishonest when the stores are promising one coat with less work.


Kanadaeh, feeding the beast has its drawbacks. On the flip side, I know you have the pull to make someone's life miserable if this is one of your main suppliers.


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> It sounds like the local paint store employee needs some additional training.
> 
> IMO one of the biggest problems a pro painter can have is an uninformed paint store employee spouting off his/her beliefs to your customers.


 Very much agree. At the same time, if the paint store isn't telling the customers the Aura will cover in 1 coat and will save time, etc., etc., etc., how are they going to justify the price and convince them to spend over $60/gal. for paint when they are seeing the home depot ads all the time for the paint "with the primer in it" for half the cost of the Aura??
If they tell people the truth- it will most likely take 2 coats for a perfect color change, you should add some extender & you really should use a primer for many applications- what are they/we spending the extra $ for?? Sounds pretty much like most other paints, just much higher priced.
I'm not Aura bashing. It's a pretty good product once you figure it out. I'm just not sure it's worth the extra $ over say the Regal line and I don't like the way Ben Moore has represented the product. It's not something I look to sell to my customers. I only use it for dark colors in a matte finish and when someone requests it.
Based on Brush Jockey's recommendations I have been wanting to try the satin on trim/woodwork, but I haven't gotten around to it yet.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

CliffK said:


> Very much agree. At the same time, if the paint store isn't telling the customers the Aura will cover in 1 coat and will save time, etc., etc., etc., how are they going to justify the price and convince them to spend over $60/gal. for paint when they are seeing the home depot ads all the time for the paint "with the primer in it" for half the cost of the Aura??
> If they tell people the truth- it will most likely take 2 coats for a perfect color change, you should add some extender & you really should use a primer for many applications- what are they/we spending the extra $ for?? Sounds pretty much like most other paints, just much higher priced.
> I'm not Aura bashing. It's a pretty good product once you figure it out. I'm just not sure it's worth the extra $ over say the Regal line and I don't like the way Ben Moore has represented the product. It's not something I look to sell to my customers. I only use it for dark colors in a matte finish and when someone requests it.
> Based on Brush Jockey's recommendations I have been wanting to try the satin on trim/woodwork, but I haven't gotten around to it yet.


They should be able to sell to HOs anyway they wish. However, they need to ask before hand if it's going to be DIY or pro. If pro, then whatever your painter says is correct.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

I really like Aura for exterior, exterior paint has to brave the elements. 
For interior I just do not see the need for a 52 dollar wall paint. 

I would do as RH suggested and get on the phone to the store and the rep. Do not leave it in the hands of the customer that is trying to debunk you be proactive and ready to answer all questions and concerns. 

Also like RH said what did the contract state? Specification of coats and all?


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

In Addition Cliff, I too love using Satin Aura on trim. Just have the store add a little extender if brushing.:thumbsup:


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> They should be able to sell to HOs anyway they wish. However, they need to ask before hand if it's going to be DIY or pro. If pro, then whatever your painter says is correct.


I agree. But I'm tired of paint manufacturers selling their products as one coat coverage. Unless I'm repainting same color and sheen I always bid two coats and explain to the customer that anyone can make a one coat claim but reality is another story. I'm the professional and I expect them to trust what I am telling them. If, after one coat, a customer is adamant that they are satisfied with the look then I can adjust accordingly and have them sign off on the results. Always easier to reduce the scope than increase it. But that rarely happens. Two coats always give a deeper and more finished look and my clients always seem to agree when they see the finished product.


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## Wood511 (Dec 13, 2010)

I love Aura and get one coat to do the job about half the time...all depends on what you're covering with what. 

My BM guys and I can talk frankly, and we do. They tell me that they are NEVER supposed to tell a HO that Aura can cover in one coat. They say it's company policy. Whether that's a local thing or a national BM thing I don't know.

I would bring the paint store guy over there, give him a roller and show him a wall. Then give the HO one too. It's a giant PITA I know. You need to let the paint store guy see two things - 1) how it covers (or doesn't) and 2) what a mess he's created for your job.

I get a fair amount of HO's wanting to buy their own paint too...makes no sense. They insist on buying it, buy what I tell them half the time, get the wrong product or sheen a quarter of the time and get my discount ZERO percent of the time.

It's all in my contract. Put it in yours.


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## Wood511 (Dec 13, 2010)

...and don't let Arch find out that you pulled a two year old thread from the dead.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Wood511 said:


> ...and don't let Arch find out that you pulled a two year old thread from the dead.


Aura threads never seem to die.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

I always tell my customers that the one coat claim is for DIYers. If you want to do the job yourself and are not worried about professional results then one coat of Aura will usually do the trick, depending on color.

If you want professional results then hire a professional painter and they will almost always apply two coats regardless of what paint they are using because they will want it to look perfect.


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## kanadaeh (Oct 4, 2007)

Sad part is it is the owner of the paint store that sold the magical paint. 
Spoke with my brother about it. He is a paint contractor in alberta. He said the bm store out there quit selling it as one coat coverage. There was just to much conflict. The reps were constantly running to sites trying to explain why the aura didn't cover in one as promised.
When the client told me she was going with aura I cringed. I brought the regional sales rep on site to discuss. I told him the store sold her on one coat and all the savings that come with it. He told me he painted his house with aura and after one coat he just had to go back and touch up weak spots. Funny
Something else that bothers me is this. As painters, no matter what product we use if we try to complete in one coat its frowned upon. Like we are ripping someone off or something. But with aura and the power of the bm brand, it is not only accepted, but encouraged. Before aura, customers would be counting coats and nothing less than 2 would be accepted. With aura they are telling us to make it work in one.
For what's its worth, our contract is for two coats. The homeowner agreed but wanted to view after one. I think she thought it would look good with one as the store had told her that. She would then request a credit from me. 
She lost it when she arrived. I would be upset to. You know that feeling you get when what your sold isn't what you receive.
My opinion on aura, I think they doubled up on good stuff trying to achieve a one coat coverage product but it is impossible. It now has so much good stuff that it is difficult to spread. I believe it takes our painters fifteen percent more time to put the stuff on because of this. I just can't drink the cool aid.
We gave our stores a ton of money last year but it this stuff gives me to much grief I will consider switching to another supplier. I can't back this aura product up


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Kanadaeh, it's hard to believe that a BM store owner could be so ignorant. Make him pay!:hang:


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## Lee Decorating Corp. (Oct 6, 2011)

As stated earlier, like any new product there is a learning curve.
I have found that the biggest problem is the "hype" from B.M. at the start. Paint stores do sell it as a one coat wonder paint.
When the product first came out, I was at a trade show and the B.M. rep was touting 1 coat coverage and doing his little board samples. I told him, he is wrong, he has no practical jobsite experience with the product and I just did a 16' high red wall and it did not look "deep". He blamed our application.
B.M. reps no longer claim 1 coat but the message has not gotten to the stores. We 2 coat all Aura jobs. but, I tell my customers if they want a matte finish to just go with the Regal matte and they will be happy and save money on material cost.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

kanadaeh said:


> Sad part is it is the owner of the paint store that sold the magical paint.
> Spoke with my brother about it. He is a paint contractor in alberta. He said the bm store out there quit selling it as one coat coverage. There was just to much conflict. The reps were constantly running to sites trying to explain why the aura didn't cover in one as promised.
> When the client told me she was going with aura I cringed. I brought the regional sales rep on site to discuss. I told him the store sold her on one coat and all the savings that come with it. He told me he painted his house with aura and after one coat he just had to go back and touch up weak spots. Funny
> Something else that bothers me is this. As painters, no matter what product we use if we try to complete in one coat its frowned upon. Like we are ripping someone off or something. But with aura and the power of the bm brand, it is not only accepted, but encouraged. Before aura, customers would be counting coats and nothing less than 2 would be accepted. With aura they are telling us to make it work in one.
> ...



Who are "they"? The customer or BM? I have never had a customer question my recommendation of two coats. If I were to have one make an issue about a product's potential coverage I would not take the job for exactly the reasons you are describing. I've had customers request that I use Aura and I've happily complied as long as they understood it was ridiculously priced and still not _likely_ to cover in one coat.

Since you gave your opinion on Aura and you contracted for two coats there is no way the customer should be coming back on you for any of this. Is she mad because you were right? This is between her and the BM guy. You have a contract so do the work as agreed upon and get your money. You have nothing to feel guilty about and should not allow yourself to be drawn into the issue any further.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Absurd to think Aura will cover in one coat. Person at paint store is an idiot to make this claim. Painter is a bonehead to not tell the homeowner. "im a professional and I do not compromise my business by giving 1 coat." EVERY paint is going to need two coats unless its the same color and sheen you are painting over. The big question is why do you guys continue to use a paint that costs over fifty bucks a gallon? Stop using it, make it go away and bm and sw with their duration as well will go back to their best sellers and make them better. But as long as you guys continue to believe 50~70 $ paint will solve all your problems, KEEP DREAMING. It will not last twice as long, it will not give you twice as many scrub cycles, it will not have twice as much burnish resistance as that of dozens of paints priced between 25~40 per gallon. Aura is a mirage!


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Zoomer said:


> Absurd to think Aura will cover in one coat. Person at paint store is an idiot to make this claim. Painter is a bonehead to not tell the homeowner. "im a professional and I do not compromise my business by giving 1 coat." EVERY paint is going to need two coats unless its the same color and sheen you are painting over. The big question is why do you guys continue to use a paint that costs over fifty bucks a gallon? Stop using it, make it go away and bm and sw with their duration as well will go back to their best sellers and make them better. But as long as you guys continue to believe 50~70 $ paint will solve all your problems, KEEP DREAMING. It will not last twice as long, it will not give you twice as many scrub cycles, it will not have twice as much burnish resistance as that of dozens of paints priced between 25~40 per gallon. Aura is a mirage!


Not quite. 

Cost to paint a two gallon room with $30/gal contractor paint =$500

Cost to paint the same room with Aura=$560 

Difference in price =$60 or 12% higher.

Aura will survive well over 12% more scrub cycles and is > 12% more burnish resistant then any contractor paint I have ever worked with.

That is value over price.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Dude 12% is not 40~70% which ia how much more the paint costs. Question. Do you touch up or scrub your walls every month. Answer. No! , Neither do your customers. Grandpa and dad had less than .05% of all their customers who used the most expensive paint everytime and felt completely satisfied. You know as well as I that most people are going to repaint every 6~10 years. Does 30$ paint hold up just as well after 6 years? YES! And no aura does not go further per sq ft. than regal, behr ultra or p&l red seal . Zero savings for us over 53 years of painting. Aura is a mirage. Let me know if you are still using it in2022 when it costs 80~100$.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Dude, I don't know anyone who drives to work at 150 mph. However, Porsche still manages to sell plenty of cars. Some people just want the best regardless of cost. Well over .05% of my customers want the best and are willing to pay for it. It doesn't matter to me either way. I just try to sell people what they want.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

More power to you.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> Not quite.
> 
> Cost to paint a two gallon room with $30/gal contractor paint =$500
> 
> ...


That's the way I see it :thumbup:


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## kanadaeh (Oct 4, 2007)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> Dude, I don't know anyone who drives to work at 150 mph. However, Porsche still manages to sell plenty of cars. Some people just want the best regardless of cost. Well over .05% of my customers want the best and are willing to pay for it. It doesn't matter to me either way. I just try to sell people what they want.


Yes but Porche does not sell there cars as being able to fly or drive underwater. I feel bm should be honest about the product. Aura mat, like many other quality paints, may be acceptable with one coat under certain conditions, however, two is always recommended. It is a durable product that wipes well. I think it touches up well to. Is that enough to sell it at 60-70 per gallon?
And if, as some had stated, bm is discontinuing the one coat sales pitch that is great. I will be happy when that policy trickles down to our local stores.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

kanadaeh said:


> Yes but Porche does not sell there cars as being able to fly or drive underwater. I feel bm should be honest about the product. Aura mat, like many other quality paints, may be acceptable with one coat under certain conditions, however, two is always recommended. It is a durable product that wipes well. I think it touches up well to. Is that enough to sell it at 60-70 per gallon?


Yes two coats is desired imo for sheen and durability. 

For some people it is all they use so it is worth it for them, for me it is worth it in some applications and not others. So the question is what is it worth to you?


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

Benjamin Moore Aura NEVER more than two coats from the Benjamin Moore Website.


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## kanadaeh (Oct 4, 2007)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> Not quite.
> 
> Cost to paint a two gallon room with $30/gal contractor paint =$500
> 
> ...


See my price would be a little different.

Cost to paint a 2 gallon room with 30/contractor paint 500

Cost to paint the same room with Aura 626-648 mabye even 700 if it takes a third gallon of aura

I have to charge 15-20 percent more for labor depending on cut details because, unlike the smooth flowing contractor grade, we have to scrub the aura on the walls.
Also, unlike 450 square feet per gallon coverage with the contractor grade, aura spreads about 300-350 square feet per gallon. So it may require more product/money too.


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## kanadaeh (Oct 4, 2007)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> Benjamin Moore Aura NEVER more than two coats from the Benjamin Moore Website.


Lol, and I gave a copy of the aura specs to the client stating this and she still believed the store owner with his one coat half the labor crap. He actually has brochures printed and sitting on the counter that promotes one coat coverage. I will see if I can get my hands on one and post it.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> Benjamin Moore Aura NEVER more than two coats from the Benjamin Moore Website.


They should change their wording to no more than two coats under normal circumstances.


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## kanadaeh (Oct 4, 2007)

researchhound said:


> Who are "they"? The customer or BM? I have never had a customer question my recommendation of two coats. If I were to have one make an issue about a product's potential coverage I would not take the job for exactly the reasons you are describing. I've had customers request that I use Aura and I've happily complied as long as they understood it was ridiculously priced and still not _likely_ to cover in one coat.
> 
> Since you gave your opinion on Aura and you contracted for two coats there is no way the customer should be coming back on you for any of this. Is she mad because you were right? This is between her and the BM guy. You have a contract so do the work as agreed upon and get your money. You have nothing to feel guilty about and should not allow yourself to be drawn into the issue any further.


"they" are the bm stores and sales reps who sell aura as a one coat wonder paint and when it does not cover in one they land on site and say it did not cover in one because "insert excuse from below here"

1did not apply properly
2did not use foundation
3did not use aura sleeves
4i never said those exact words


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

It is interesting how everyone views a product differently. I find Aura fast to paint with and I cannot put it on at 350 sq. ft. Per gallon unless it is raw drywall.


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## kanadaeh (Oct 4, 2007)

DeanV said:


> It is interesting how everyone views a product differently. I find Aura fast to paint with and I cannot put it on at 350 sq. ft. Per gallon unless it is raw drywall.


Paint race? Name the time and place my friend!


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

kanadaeh said:


> "they" are the bm stores and sales reps who sell aura as a one coat wonder paint and when it does not cover in one they land on site and say it did not cover in one because "insert excuse from below here"
> 
> 1did not apply properly
> 2did not use foundation
> ...


Maybe you can at least get a free shirt from him...


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

kanadaeh said:


> Paint race? Name the time and place my friend!


A trip to Michigan is what it probably takes to take Dean on. Film it so it can be forever in the archives of PT.


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## kanadaeh (Oct 4, 2007)

researchhound said:


> Maybe you can at least get a free shirt from him...


Lol, I need one of these!


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Aura just works well for us when we use it.


I measured 2 rooms very closely, one with Aura and one with Regal select. Cut and rolling only (no prep or moving furniture included), I had around 550 sq. ft./hour of painting production. This is without deductions for windows or doors in a typical middle class room with 8' ceilings. No speed demon work. Just real numbers. Aura with a microfiber 5/16th got around 800 sq. ft. per gallon (after subtracting for doors and windows) and regal with a ProDooz (3/8 or 1/2, do not remember) got around 600 sq. ft. per gallon. Smooth plaster walls.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

I honestly don't understand. Unless Canada gets a different formula. Aura definitely doesn't take me any longer to paint than SS, Regal or anything else. Maybe it is the extra dry air in the Great White North. I don't know.

It sounds like your local paint store owner is living in the past.

You should to bring him up to date. Tell him about this post. I would love to hear his side of the story.


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## kanadaeh (Oct 4, 2007)

Workaholic said:


> A trip to Michigan is what it probably takes to take Dean on. Film it so it can be forever in the archives of PT.


It has to be neutral territory. He would have home town advantige, familiar humidity levels, etc. Also, we need a referee to keep and eye one things. Make sure no bm extender is hidden anywhere. Any volunteers?
Need rules to...would we clean sleeves or toss them?


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

My only paint off for this year is an away game with Scmidt in Chi-town. If I play my cards rig, I can get JP to show up as well and do all the work for both of us in no time flat so Paul and I hit Gino's East for some pizza.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

kanadaeh said:


> It has to be neutral territory. He would have home town advantige, familiar humidity levels, etc. Also, we need a referee to keep and eye one things. Make sure no bm extender is hidden anywhere. Any volunteers?
> Need rules to...would we clean sleeves or toss them?


Looks to be Chi-town venue 



DeanV said:


> My only paint off for this year is an away game with Scmidt in Chi-town. If I play my cards rig, I can get JP to show up as well and do all the work for both of us in no time flat so Paul and I hit Gino's East for some pizza.


That is smart thinking.


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## kanadaeh (Oct 4, 2007)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> I honestly don't understand. Unless Canada gets a different formula. Aura definitely doesn't take me any longer to paint than SS, Regal or anything else. Maybe it is the extra dry air in the Great White North. I don't know.
> 
> It sounds like your local paint store owner is living in the past.
> 
> You should to bring him up to date. Tell him about this post. I would love to hear his side of the story.


I did experience myself on a project last year. 16 foot high walls. I put the first coat of sico select on took a little less than a five gallon pale. Client decided to go with an aura finish coat. Was a bit slower going and it took almost seven gallons. Maybe I should have used extender and a finer nap sleeve but I still think it is a little slower going. And bm does state in the aura specs 350-400 feet per gallon coverage. They state 400-450 feet per gallon for superspec. This is their numbers, not mine


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## kanadaeh (Oct 4, 2007)

Different brush strokes for different paint folks I guess


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

kanadaeh said:


> It has to be neutral territory. He would have home town advantige, familiar humidity levels, etc. Also, we need a referee to keep and eye one things. Make sure no bm extender is hidden anywhere. Any volunteers?
> Need rules to...would we clean sleeves or toss them?


Bill could do it. He's neutral and unbiased about everything. :whistling2:


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

DeanV said:


> Aura just works well for us when we use it.
> 
> I measured 2 rooms very closely, one with Aura and one with Regal select. Cut and rolling only (no prep or moving furniture included), I had around 550 sq. ft./hour of painting production. This is without deductions for windows or doors in a typical middle class room with 8' ceilings. No speed demon work. Just real numbers. Aura with a microfiber 5/16th got around 800 sq. ft. per gallon (after subtracting for doors and windows) and regal with a ProDooz (3/8 or 1/2, do not remember) got around 600 sq. ft. per gallon. Smooth plaster walls.


Great post Dean and good info. I think this post needs to be copied to the "paint geek" thread too


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

No difference in Canada.
Aura has made us money, no question. 
Many of these stores with high end appliances and high walls
had to be painted late at night and put back together last December.
Shopping season.
As usual, one coat was great with different painters of different skill.
Aura made us money and was great value to the customer.
It promises no more than two coats with certain colours 
needing a foundation. I think that's clear enough.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

DeanV said:


> My only paint off for this year is an away game with Scmidt in Chi-town. If I play my cards rig, I can get JP to show up as well and do all the work for both of us in no time flat so Paul and I hit Gino's East for some pizza.


If ONLY we could get Wise to come and show us how to REALLY paint.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

George Z said:


> No difference in Canada.
> Aura has made us money, no question.
> Many of these stores with high end appliances and high walls
> had to be painted late at night and put back together last December.
> ...


I agree, George. In situations where you need it, you need it. And it works. Some painters want it to be the magic bullet, and its not, and Ben Moore never really said it was. What they have said in all their marketing is that its the best can of paint they have ever made. Which arguably it is. Its not for every job, but its a great option. That is the one thing I like about having so many options these days.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> I agree, George. In situations where you need it, you need it. And it works. Some painters want it to be the magic bullet, and its not, and Ben Moore never really said it was. What they have said in all their marketing is that its the best can of paint they have ever made. Which arguably it is. Its not for every job, but its a great option. That is the one thing I like about having so many options these days.


I just don't agree that it's their best product. I would probably choose several others over it with cost not being a issue.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> I just don't agree that it's their best product. I would probably choose several others over it with cost not being a issue.


I think they mean that partly from a formulation standpoint, not totally performance based. 

I use Natura more than Aura, and have been dabbling in Regal Select. Have even used Ben and found it to be surprisingly good. 

To me, Aura is a specialist. Not an every day driver.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> I think they mean that partly from a formulation standpoint, not totally performance based.
> 
> I use Natura more than Aura, and have been dabbling in Regal Select. Have even used Ben and found it to be surprisingly good.
> 
> To me, Aura is a specialist. Not an every day driver.


:yes: agreed 100%


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## paintnow (Dec 11, 2011)

I've used Aura many times with great success, especially with Reds and Dark Colors covering in two coats (over off white). 3/8 cover. Touches up well if it's Matte, not so well if it's more sheen.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

DeanV said:


> Aura just works well for us when we use it.
> 
> 
> I measured 2 rooms very closely, one with Aura and one with Regal select. Cut and rolling only (no prep or moving furniture included), I had around 550 sq. ft./hour of painting production. This is without deductions for windows or doors in a typical middle class room with 8' ceilings. No speed demon work.


550 SF/Hr, even without deducting the area of doors or windows is extremely speed demon. And I don't believe it for one second.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

plainpainter said:


> 550 SF/Hr, even without deducting the area of doors or windows is extremely speed demon. And I don't believe it for one second.


Here are my stopwatch times for my family room, again, this was painting ONLY, no moving stuff (everything in middle of room). 4 windows to cut around and 2 doorways. 

12x18 living room 8' ceilings, regal matte

Ceiling 7:50 12x18
Baseboard 8:15 to thin base
Corners 1:42
Windows (4) and Doors (2): 8:30
____________________________
First coat total 26:17 minutes

All cut in 2nd coat 28:30*minutes
_________________________
Total cut 53:47 minutes

Roll 1: 16:20
Roll 2: 17:05
__________
Total roll 33:25

--------------------------
Total *1:27:02

672 sq. ft. Of actual wall space
Total wall space including openings 960 sq. ft.
640 sq. ft. Per hour painting only
275 sq. ft. Per hour including moving and replacing and Prepwork


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

DeanV said:


> Here are my stopwatch times for my family room, again, this was painting ONLY, no moving stuff (everything in middle of room). 4 windows to cut around and 2 doorways.
> 
> 12x18 living room 8' ceilings, regal matte
> 
> ...


Dean, this is why I hate the internet - 640 SF per hour is absolutely ridiculous. It actually works out to 662 using your numbers. A gallon of modern day paint barely covers that much gross wall space, some I'd say do about 450 SF of gross wall space{i.e. not deducting openings} Why don't you post a video of yourself painting like this. You'll put Charlie Chaplin to shame.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Remember though, it is not REAL conditions. The room had drops down, nail holes filled and sanded, furniture in the middle, paint poured, etc. It was ONLY picking up the brush and the roller. I cut everything first. Then rolled everything.

I make absolutely no claims to being a superman painter. It was ideal conditions, or almost (I would rather have a completely empty room). For a single room like that, it takes more time to haul stuff in, set up the room, prep the room, clean up, etc.

I promise you no one would want to watch me paint for an hour and a half, non stop, even if you factor in my startling good looks, witty commentary, and sparkling personality.


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