# Roller Lines Sprayer stipple



## jason123 (Jul 2, 2009)

This I consider somewhat of a nerd question and or maybe not... Maybe im just a newb after ten years???

The question.. Is it possible to have a ceiling perfectly coated so as to see no way that the paint was applied... (this question does not have to do with the customer satisfaction it has to do with my satisfaction)....

From a great angle form most jobs also not mine I can see the roller marks. From mine I still cant get rid of the stipple spray.My last ceiling I sprayed two primers three top coats.. And i can still get anal if I want to>>> This is from the farthest point in the area and looking at the opposite side of the ceiling.. Not from underneath...


Thank You weary wanderers ...


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Angle and light can be brutal, not to mention the quality of the drywall finish. If you want to achieve near perfection, you need to push for true level five finishes before you touch it. Even then it will not be perfect, which is a word I stay away from in my descriptions.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Workaholic said:


> Angle and light can be brutal, not to mention the quality of the drywall finish. If you want to achieve near perfection, you need to push for true level five finishes before you touch it. Even then it will not be perfect, which is a word I stay away from in my descriptions.


Hes right :thumbsup: What about level 5 + oil flat? Never seen it done, just curious. Maybe the oil will have more chance to lay down and level out.


Wait, its a ceiling, that whole gravity thing will come into play...maybe flip the house upside down when you're spraying the lids :jester:


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

NCPaint1 said:


> Hes right :thumbsup: What about level 5 + oil flat? Never seen it done, just curious. Maybe the oil will have more chance to lay down and level out.
> 
> 
> Wait, its a ceiling, that whole gravity thing will come into play...maybe flip the house upside down when you're spraying the lids :jester:


The addition to our house has a level 5 finish and I painted the lids with a flat oil (PPG 6-50, IIRC). It worked great, but I'm not sure if that product is even available any more.

I'm also a little unsure about what the OP meant by "stipple spray". That's a new one to me. Is that regular roller stipple or track marks from the edge of the roller?


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## jason123 (Jul 2, 2009)

What i meant from sprayer stipple. is a stipple pattern occurs when the ceiling is sprayed. A stipple pattern is a bunch of tiny dots..


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## CK_68847 (Apr 17, 2010)

jason123 said:


> This I consider somewhat of a nerd question and or maybe not... Maybe im just a newb after ten years???
> 
> The question.. Is it possible to have a ceiling perfectly coated so as to see no way that the paint was applied... (this question does not have to do with the customer satisfaction it has to do with my satisfaction)....
> 
> ...


Make sure to use flat and cross hatch. If you cross hatch it right and spray it heavy enough you wont see the stipple spray. 99 percent of ceilings go flat hear unless you are painting a wet area. If you have to use a semi gloss or expoxy you will always find imperfections.


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## canadianpainter (Mar 7, 2009)

jason123 said:


> From a great angle form most jobs also not mine I can see the roller marks. From mine I still cant get rid of the stipple spray.My last ceiling I sprayed two primers three top coats.. And i can still get anal if I want to>>> This is from the farthest point in the area and looking at the opposite side of the ceiling.. Not from underneath...


To me, it sounds like you're describing what I call dry spray, which is simply not applying enough paint for the finish to dry evenly. 

CK hit the nail with his post.

Also, 2 coats of primer and 3 coats of finish is overkill for any ceiling in my opinion. Personally, I'd never apply two coats of primer and I can't conceive of any reason for doing so. 

Just last week I sprayed two 20'x40' ft ceilings a dark grey in a room that's 80'x140' and has at least 20 windows that go from floor to ceiling and you can't see a single blemish from any angle at any distance so I'm not just talking out my arse. lol Oh yea, the ceilings are only 9ft tall and I put on one coat of primer and one coat of finish. 

Follow CK's advice; crosshatch and apply a good amount of paint and you'll be amazed at what you can do. Trust me, I've been through the ceiling hell and it took me 4 years to figure out how to get out of it. 

Good luck! 

edit: oh yea, make sure you sand your primer coat perfect. sometimes some imperfections you can see from a distance is simply a little bit of inconsistent texture.


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## CK_68847 (Apr 17, 2010)

canadianpainter said:


> To me, it sounds like you're describing what I call dry spray, which is simply not applying enough paint for the finish to dry evenly.
> 
> CK hit the nail with his post.
> 
> ...


To tell you the truth I never prime a ceiling if I am using flat. I have never had a problem in my life doing it this way. If you are really scared go ahead and prime before you use flat, but a cheap flat hides almost anything. 

There is one exception. I will say the only type of ceiling I would prime and roll with flat is an orange peel ceiling. I have had problems in the past with seams showing if there is enough natural light. Other than than that, any other textured ceiling or flat surfaced ceiling, you should be able to spray heavy and cross hatch.


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## canadianpainter (Mar 7, 2009)

CK_68847 said:


> To tell you the truth I never prime a ceiling if I am using flat. I have never had a problem in my life doing it this way. If you are really scared go ahead and prime before you use flat, but a cheap flat hides almost anything.


Yes another important point! I only ever use BM super spec flat on ceilings because it's dead flat unlike their mid-top line 'flat' paints. I'm constantly amazed at how many painters I see at the local BM store buying aura flat for ceilings.

Hell, if the ceilings are white I just paint them out with two coats of primer.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Are you talking about orange peel as in sprayer stipple?


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## jason123 (Jul 2, 2009)

CK- I primed because it was new drywall. 2 primes Because this particular job is very high end I know over kill wanted to get it right.. Do you also not prime new drywall and or plaster? 


CanadianPainter..Sounds like dry spray think your right. I give it a good coat any more and ill get some alligatoring and cracking after it dries. Still i think its dry spray???? argh..

the paint is mythic any opinions? While Im at it my sprayer(titan 540) always will spit now after the spray.All my filters are clean it would spit here and there and now all the time. and the lines at the end of the spray area are always there no matter how much pressure??? One good thing is that Im learning that the learning never stops and its just part of the game


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## CK_68847 (Apr 17, 2010)

jack pauhl said:


> Are you talking about orange peel as in sprayer stipple?


Im talking as in the drywaller applying orange peel before the painter paints. I have had some problems in the past when i spray flat on it and dont backroll. I have had the spray stipple in spots or had the seams show. I think some of it comes back to the finish job because when most drywallers orange peel they only two coat the drywall and orange peel.


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## Metro M & L (Jul 21, 2009)

jason123 said:


> CK- I primed because it was new drywall. 2 primes Because this particular job is very high end I know over kill wanted to get it right.. Do you also not prime new drywall and or plaster?
> 
> 
> CanadianPainter..Sounds like dry spray think your right. I give it a good coat any more and ill get some alligatoring and cracking after it dries. Still i think its dry spray???? argh..
> ...


Gun is spitting because it needs to be rebuilt. Costs about 75$ and you can do it your self. 

I set pressure to the minimum amount needed to atomize the paint. I define this as when there is not a heavier build up of paint at the edges of the fan. There are two marker lines in the fan to help you see where your shooting - it's designed into the tip.


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## CK_68847 (Apr 17, 2010)

jason123 said:


> CK- I primed because it was new drywall. 2 primes Because this particular job is very high end I know over kill wanted to get it right.. Do you also not prime new drywall and or plaster?
> 
> 
> CanadianPainter..Sounds like dry spray think your right. I give it a good coat any more and ill get some alligatoring and cracking after it dries. Still i think its dry spray???? argh..
> ...


I never prime ceilings unless it is going egshel or a higher sheen. I will possibly prime if it is orange peel with a ton of natural light hitting it. Most jobs we do are commercial, so I prime, one coat, and let it sit there until the job is ending and put a finish coat on near the end. Everthing gets beat up in the process, so there isn't any reason getting carried away early. The same is done with high end homes we do. If it's a spec house, it gets two coats of egshel and that is it. Even here in Nebraska, it ranges. In Omaha everything is flat on the walls in any type of house. Lincoln painters go with two coats of egshel on spec to high end houses. The price of job dictates what we do.

Okay i see the problem I think with your sprayer. Tip size can also play a factor into your spitting with latex paints. If your tip size is too small, latex paint will spit sometimes. When I spray a ceiling I will go with a 521 to 621 tip or maybe even with a wider fan. You are better off going with a wide fan on non textured ceilings. It helps prevent spray lines. It also makes it so you can go heavier faster. A little sprayer will have problems keeping up with a bigger tip however.


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## jason123 (Jul 2, 2009)

oh no i just got dissed, I have a little sprayer because i dont have to compensate...LOL
I know 540 just a starter model, cant wait till i got a sprayer with wheels..

The tip i used was 514 if i recall...

Rebuilt eh Well Ill call up the old sw round here they have a sprayer center mid town.

To add to the priming.(note this customer demand!!!!!!!!! perfection Trust..) ( dont worry she's happy to pay) ( I hope ) LOL

I doubled just in case I missed a plaster area and it flashed. Again over kill.. Some painters dont seem to think plaster needs to be primed??? In all my experience a unprimed plaster area will always flash always.. I wish this weren't true it would save on plaster touch ups. Please tell me this is not true....

So I rolled one of the ceilings in question with a flat white it came out. Then another bedroom i rolled with ceiling flat and it had roller marks... Is it possible this Mythic paint sucks

Anybody have any experience with mythic paint


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Gun spits cause pin doesn't seat correctly. Ie.- gun needs cleaning or rebuild. X21 tip is frigging huge. U shooting elastomeric on interiors?  

Sorry, haven't figured out multiquoting on ma new Evo 

Sent from my PC36100 using Paint Talk


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## CK_68847 (Apr 17, 2010)

Paradigmzz said:


> Gun spits cause pin doesn't seat correctly. Ie.- gun needs cleaning or rebuild. X21 tip is frigging huge. U shooting elastomeric on interiors?
> 
> Sorry, haven't figured out multiquoting on ma new Evo
> 
> Sent from my PC36100 using Paint Talk


A brand new 521 tip isnt that big when spraying a ceiling, especially if it is brand new and not blown out. It helps greatly to have a wide fan tip when spraying ceilings and a sprayer with enough pressure to keep up. The smaller the fan, the greater chance you are going to see spray lines.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Thin your paint.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Bender said:


> Thin your paint.


Worthy 2000th post!! Id thank you, but I haven't figured out how to do that from my phone.

Sent from my PC36100 using Paint Talk


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## canadianpainter (Mar 7, 2009)

jason123 said:


> I doubled just in case I missed a plaster area and it flashed. Again over kill.. Some painters dont seem to think plaster needs to be primed??? In all my experience a unprimed plaster area will always flash always.. I wish this weren't true it would save on plaster touch ups. Please tell me this is not true....


I always prime new drywall. I use a lot of Benjamin Moore's Super Spec and Eco Spec and I noticed last year they changed the labeling on the can stating that priming wasn't needed for new wallboard; I couldn't believe it. Forget the flashing, the paint doesn't stick nearly as well without priming. 

Unprimed mud will flash if you only put one coat of finish on it because the paint absorbs into the mud. I hit most mud touch ups with two coats of finish and only prime them if they're bigger than a softball.


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## jason123 (Jul 2, 2009)

canadianpainter said:


> I always prime new drywall. I use a lot of Benjamin Moore's Super Spec and Eco Spec and I noticed last year they changed the labeling on the can stating that priming wasn't needed for new wallboard; I couldn't believe it. Forget the flashing, the paint doesn't stick nearly as well without priming.
> 
> Unprimed mud will flash if you only put one coat of finish on it because the paint absorbs into the mud. I hit most mud touch ups with two coats of finish and only prime them if they're bigger than a softball.



I have heard peeps say you can prime and also prime small mud touch ups by using paint never tried it just used the primer even on the smallest touch ups only apply the primer with a mini sponge roller ( the small spots).
All these all in one primers are bs.. I think.. Had a room with a couple nail holes couple weeks ago,,filled them with dex or one time..Painted with aura just to see if the flashing occured. In my opinion it did I then primed with cheap primer and top coated. 

I once spot primed with zinser. This was the worst ever, all the primed areas flashed. The reason for this circumstance was the zinser was to potent of a primer and i will never use zinsser as a spot primer. I tried to prime the zinsser spot primed areas with cheap primer but to no avail. the original primed spots of zinsser still flashed. I then sucumb to the cant beat them join them. I tinted primed the whole area, living room, staircase , hallway. in zinsser then coated.

.....I did another test with the flat white on the second bedroom Ceiling (original post) and I rolled to a tee from one side to another and finish the roll on the same stroke never pull off in the middle. Then second coat in the opposite direction. ( this in total will be 5 coats of paint. One primer, two ceiling spray, two rolled. I can still see roller marks.

what gives.... CAN A PERFECT ROLL EVER OCCUR

Is mythic paint crap ...

This customer is a ecoholic and does everything eco friendly. She chose Mythic paint because she r and d and this met her requirements yada yada yada... Is there any Pro Ceiling paint that is no voc eco max. She didn't approve of aura because it had formaldehyde in it??

If thats not a PT fart I dont know what is:thumbup:


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Paradigmzz said:


> Worthy 2000th post!! Id thank you, but I haven't figured out how to do that from my phone.
> 
> Sent from my PC36100 using Paint Talk


All my posts are 2000 post worthy:gunsmilie:


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## canadianpainter (Mar 7, 2009)

jason123 said:


> I have heard peeps say you can prime and also prime small mud touch ups by using paint never tried it just used the primer even on the smallest touch ups only apply the primer with a mini sponge roller ( the small spots).
> All these all in one primers are bs.. I think.. Had a room with a couple nail holes couple weeks ago,,filled them with dex or one time..Painted with aura just to see if the flashing occured. In my opinion it did I then primed with cheap primer and top coated.
> 
> I once spot primed with zinser. This was the worst ever, all the primed areas flashed. The reason for this circumstance was the zinser was to potent of a primer and i will never use zinsser as a spot primer. I tried to prime the zinsser spot primed areas with cheap primer but to no avail. the original primed spots of zinsser still flashed. I then sucumb to the cant beat them join them. I tinted primed the whole area, living room, staircase , hallway. in zinsser then coated.
> ...


Oh man, I feel like I could have written this post myself; not because of the content, but because of the curiousity, detail and passion. 

Do you backroll your sprayed ceilings? I don't. I only backroll walls to make touching up easier. 

"Can a perfect roll ever occur?" I think it can, but ceilings can be tough because ceilings are the warmest parts of the room which makes keeping a uniform wet edge difficult sometimes. Also, flat paint dries faster than eggshells and even faster when you're putting it on over an absorbent layer of primer. I've often thought the perfect conditions for rolling a ceiling would be rolling on flat paint over an eggshell/semi-gloss finish in a cool room (about 15C).

I've used all BM's paints, but I'm not up to par on with what paints actually are the most eco friendly. Truth be told, most green people can be sold simply by using BM Eco Spec paint. I mean, it comes in a green can and it says 'Eco' right in the name. I've never had a single client question how green it actually it is. If I were you I'd tell the client that Eco Spec is as green as it gets when it comes to paint unless they want to pay $100+ a gallon for hypo-allergetic clay based paint that's crappy because it doesn't look as good or last as long and it costs more to apply; 99% of people with settle with the Eco Spec. 

Furthermore, you should explain to your client that although you wished Eco friendly products were right online in terms of quality with their non-eco counterparts that the truth is that there's a trade off for being eco friendly. Explain to them how solvent base paints are used because of how they perform (think car paints) and that at this moment in time there's just not a perfectly eco friendly paint alternative that performs well enough to justify the cost of buying and painting and rebuying and painting.


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## propainterJ (Jan 31, 2011)

Why backroll a ceiling?

If it's a smooth ceiling,you cannot roll it without something showing up,if it's textured I still dont see the point,it's texture,not stucco,you dont have to mash it into texture.

I've had my best luck with ceilings just spraying them,new or repaint,just put on a wall tip,have my paint thinned if needed,make sure I dont have any trails in my sprayfan,back that tip off the ceiling by about 18-22" and blow that thing out,go across the major light source or shortest run of room and just spray it corner to corner overlapping generously and just let that paint atomize and build up a bit.

If it's textured properly or smooth they always come out nice,we quit backrolling ceilings in the late 80s

Now the only reason I would roll a ceiling is if its tiny,or HO requests,which they never do.

No disrespect meant to anyone,your thing is your thing I dont mean to belittle anyone,just making observations and telling it like I see it


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

I've stayed out of this discussion on several threads, but I've got to chime in in support of what propainterJ wrote. We've taken that same approach and have never had a good reason to doubt ourselves. It may be different in other parts of the country, but around here, the guys that spray and backroll do a poor enough job that it's always easy to spot.


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## PaintSlave (Jan 9, 2011)

These are "Knock Down" ceilings?

The dots? Sounds like a couple things going on.

1. Too Close to surface
2. Too Small of a tip

Back roll with an 18'' 1/2'' nap orange contractor series from sw..


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## CK_68847 (Apr 17, 2010)

PaintSlave said:


> These are "Knock Down" ceilings?
> 
> The dots? Sounds like a couple things going on.
> 
> ...


Just remember go heavy and cross hatch on ceilings. Knockdown ceilings are probably one of the easier ceilings to paint. They are less forgiven than a smooth ceiling.


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