# Gardz and priming question



## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

So my GC has a very picky customer. She is currently pushing the GC to have the drywall go level 5. They are just re-doing a family room. Anyways they want me to just do the priming and then the lady is going to do her own painting. Crazy. Anyways. They want the priming to be as perfect as possible so she can't come back and point to things and say the drywall wasn't done well enough etc. she also wants a vapor barrier rated pva. So I'm thinking either I use the VB pva and backroll with. 3/8 roller and then pole sand after that, or maybe use Gardz first to seal everything perfectly, especially if they only go level 4, and then use the VB pva just to make everything white, at which point the HO can do her painting. They want to make sure there's no flashing or anything like that. I didn't know if there would be any issues with the pva adhesion over Gardz like if it was better for pva just to go over new drywall to soak in etc. 
Thoughts?


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

Use the Kilz Klear instead of gardz. I would wait 24 hours in between PVA and Kilz Klear or Gardz.

PVA from Kilz is good too.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

She'd have an easier time painting over the Gardz but you definitely won't have adhesion issues. I'd say the pva is unnecessary, I think you're more than ok doing it this way.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

Skip PVA. Straight Gardz. I don't have experience with Killz Clear. The only issue may be explaining a clear sealer to an HO, although I find that first coats over Gardz look better than first coats over white primer.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

I think we have to do the VB pva since she is obsessed with it having VB product. I totally agree skipping it is fine functionally. I like the idea of the Gardz first. I also have a bunch in my garage I over ordered a while ago, so will be a good excuse to use it.


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

2 coats of Gardz would make an excellent vapor barrier.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

ProWallGuy said:


> 2 coats of Gardz would make an excellent vapor barrier.



I think two coats Gardz is better also. Harder to do drywall point up though, which the painter always ends up doing to some degree. Didn't someone have success tinting Gardz?


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

Damon T said:


> I think we have to do the VB pva since she is obsessed with it having VB product. I totally agree skipping it is fine functionally. I like the idea of the Gardz first. I also have a bunch in my garage I over ordered a while ago, so will be a good excuse to use it.


Then you can do Gardz first if you already have it and use PVA PPG 6-2


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

with adhesion questions, I always THINK it best to call the manufacturer. 

One would ASSUME if Draw-tite and their clones are made to have JC applied over them, then they should allow a PVA to adhere properly too, but you know what they say about ASS-U-ME


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

Ya, u can put 2oz of colorant in Gardz, but it only makes it slightly opaque. 2 coats of gardz would seal most anything I think!


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Gibberish45 said:


> I think two coats Gardz is better also. Harder to do drywall point up though, which the painter always ends up doing to some degree. Didn't someone have success tinting Gardz?


Way to many sins to hide so something that will build and sand is the way to go. Of course I could do a half day of point ups myself.


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## aroplate (Aug 21, 2013)

How about oil base coverstain, it's better than PVA, seals everything.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> Way to many sins to hide so something that will build and sand is the way to go. Of course I could do a half day of point ups myself.


Not following you T. Are you saying don't use Gardz or just don't do 2 coats?


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## Phinity (May 6, 2013)

Used gardz on a basement remodel recently. Absolutely love it, Seals like a charm. Like Prowall guy said, two coats and your golden.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

I would go SW high build primer, sand, then gardz. I would trust paint to stick to gardz, but I don't know if I would trust pva to stick to it.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Bender said:


> I would go SW high build primer, sand, then gardz. I would trust paint to stick to gardz, but I don't know if I would trust pva to stick to it.


Is that high build like one of those surfacers for making a level 4 more like a level 5? I've seen the ones you're supposed to spray on thick but have never used them. 
I share the concern about putting the pva over the Gardz tho my BM rep thought it should be fine. That didn't inspire full confidence.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

I was thinking of this.
http://www.sherwin-williams.com/document/PDS/en/035777637838/

We hardly ever do smooth wall so I can't vouch for how well it works. 
This is interesting.


> Six minutes minimum mixing on a me-
> chanical shaker is required for complete
> mixing of color.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Oh yeah, we just finished a job with smooth wall...

The drywaller sprayed some sort of a primer on everything. I just got a call last night that some of the masking tape (from the cabinet finisher) has pulled the paint off

So, again, I doubt it would stick to gardz.


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## Toolnut (Nov 23, 2012)

Are you really sure you want this one? I may be wrong (probably) but level 5, then you prime her way, she paints. It sounds like she want someone to blame if it's not absolutely perfect. Then it sounds like your doing something your really not sure about. What I mean is she wants it done differently than you normally would do it.
How is she going to paint it, brush & roller? If she does is she aware the roller will leave stipple? Doesn't this kind of defeat the smoothness of the level 5 ?
Is she going to spray it?
What paint is she going to use? If she uses a bad paint can she come back and say it's the prime job?
Since she feels she is capable of painting why someone else to prime?
Since level 5 was designed for gloss or semi-gloss for the reflectiveness of light like in hospitals and schools, every flaw however small will glare at you.
The part about leaving the final and most visible part to her would bother me. 
Hope this makes sense maybe most of these will be covered in your contract.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

You nailed it on the head Toolnut. I'm not 100% confident since we don't normally do Gardz then pva. I'm just working T&M for the remodelers but I will tell them up front if she has a problem they're paying me to fix it or something. I wouldn't ever take a job like this but I do all their painting and don't want them looking for another painter for obvious reasons. 
It's a dumb situation for sure. I'm kinda leaning towards just pva right now and if necessary prime it twice.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

I hate that painters are always put in these idiotic positions.

She's confident enough to apply the finish coats but not confident to prime it herself, that's just silly. I hope she f's it all up when she paints then hires you to fix it, at which point you should charge double.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Damon T said:


> Not following you T. Are you saying don't use Gardz or just don't do 2 coats?


Tapers I am following are leaving a lot of work to make it pass with an eggshell finish. I use a high build and sand out of lot of problems. Then point up.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Whats point up?


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> Tapers I am following are leaving a lot of work to make it pass with an eggshell finish. I use a high build and sand out of lot of problems. Then point up.


Yeah my BM rep gave me the TDS for the super spec high build primer. Maybe I'll try it someday. 

My buddy who does a lot of new work says they don't backroll their pva, and never their ceilings. I guess I've been doing it wrong all these years!


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Damon T said:


> My buddy who does a lot of new work says they don't backroll their pva, and never their ceilings. I guess I've been doing it wrong all these years!


They're just doing what the GC is paying for. Cheap work. Nothing surprises me in NC work. There's some new homes going up near me and I know the painter. I asked him why he wasn't getting any material from me for them, then he told me what they were paying him to spray them out (minus custom colors of course) I have nothing in the $9-$11/gal caliber.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> They're just doing what the GC is paying for. Cheap work. Nothing surprises me in NC work. There's some new homes going up near me and I know the painter. I asked him why he wasn't getting any material from me for them, then he told me what they were paying him to spray them out (minus custom colors of course) I have nothing in the $9-$11/gal caliber.


You would think except he works for some pretty high end builders. He uses mostly BM stuff too. In fact the super spec vapor barrier pva is their go to pva.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Rbriggs82 said:


> I hate that painters are always put in these idiotic positions.
> 
> She's confident enough to apply the finish coats but not confident to prime it herself, that's just silly. I hope she f's it all up when she paints then hires you to fix it, at which point you should charge double.[/QUOTE]
> 
> at the very least:thumbsup:


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> They're just doing what the GC is paying for. Cheap work. Nothing surprises me in NC work. There's some new homes going up near me and I know the painter. I asked him why he wasn't getting any material from me for them, then he told me what they were paying him to spray them out (minus custom colors of course) I have nothing in the $9-$11/gal caliber.


Same here man. And the worst is when these guys get some residential work and use the same products. I once went to do a quote for a small two story house. My bid was a little over 3K and they got a quote from one of these guys for $ 1,300 materials included. :blink:


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## more_prep (Dec 7, 2009)

This may be late, but I would sell her on spraying primer and topcoat, you do all, for a superior finish. I have had great results on repaints spraying SW Wall and Wood, hand-sanding between coats with a "Fine" or 120 3m square pad, then spraying two topcoats of BM Regal (not Regal Select). This is going over old stipple, patching, etc. No stipple visible in topcoat -- incredibly smooth. Spray with a 411 tip, thin it a bit and use extender.
The hand-sanding sounds onerous, but it's pretty quick, and doesn't burn through like a 6" orbital. Also, no clogging. Overall faster.


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## Wood511 (Dec 13, 2010)

This brings up an interesting question about vapor barriers that I've run into a few times. We've done some wine cellars where the HO has a physical vapor barrier between the insulation and drywall since the adjoining rooms will be about 10 degrees F different. Sometimes the barrier is a plastic sheet and others spray them. This thread makes me wonder if several coats of Gardz and PVA would effectively serve the same purpose. Keep in mind this is over greenboard and the typical insulation behind the sheet rock is about R-19. Have any of you guys ever tried something like this?


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

If it were several coats of Guardz I would say for sure the walls are sealed as well as a plastic vapor barrier would.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

straight_lines said:


> If it were several coats of Guardz I would say for sure the walls are sealed as well as a plastic vapor barrier would.


:yes::thumbsup:


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