# Remove Amber Shellac?



## four2knapp (Jun 19, 2011)

I am going to be removing the amber shellac from a 1930's house on only a couple doors, banister, railings and 2 built-in China cabs. I was not able to hide orangy-ness with an overglazing and will have to remove said shellac finish. 

Any tips or tricks to get it done well? I plane on using denatured alcohol, rags and a 3m green scrubby. 

I will be painting the spindles, stringers and risers. Would one sand or remove old shellac prior to painting? Unfortunately, I'll be prepping & painting after the floor treads get finished.


----------



## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

Most likely its lead. Not sure if that worries you or not but there are rules that should be followed and you need to be certified. Now if you have all that and know how to follow those rules I would remove all the shellac prior to painting. I would do all prep first than finish work.


----------



## four2knapp (Jun 19, 2011)

Exterior door, always had a storm door. Approved sample on random board in middle.


----------



## four2knapp (Jun 19, 2011)

jacob33 said:


> Most likely its lead.


Does shellac have lead in it? All this original finish wood work is shellacked. I am painting over part of it.


----------



## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

Easiest way to know is to test it. But I think technically you have to be certified to test. I'm not trying to scare you away from it but if its from the 1930's there is lead almost for sure.


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Lead is a pigment. It isn't very likely that a clear finish has any in it, as the lead would be a white color in it's natural state. White lead, it does a body good!

They've been using shellac as a candy coating for thousands of years. They still do.


----------



## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

Somebody's going to have some really buffed arms after all that.


----------



## four2knapp (Jun 19, 2011)

I ran out to some testers, It's negative.


----------



## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

First time I've ever heard of lead in shellac.

If the shellac is old and starting to crack or gator, try some straight krud kutter on it. Did it this way for years and it took about 90% of it off.


----------



## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

My understanding and I could be wrong is that clear coats can contain lead acetate that was used as a drier. Also stains could contain lead.


----------



## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

PACman said:


> Lead is a pigment. It isn't very likely that a clear finish has any in it, as the lead would be a white color in it's natural state. White lead, it does a body good!
> 
> They've been using shellac as a candy coating for thousands of years. They still do.


Lead itself isn't a pigment, it was a common component of metallic driers for a long time, and often shows up in old varnish.

OTOH, since shellac dries by solvent evaporation, driers aren't necessary.

We've stripped shellac from large area of old woodwork and thorough ventilation is critical. The denaturants often include Methanol and other nasty stuff. You also have to change rags, etc. often, otherwise, you end up re-depositing the shellac as the solvent evaporates.

The legendary finisher George Frank had a solution for working with shellac when he couldn't ventilate his work area...95% ethanol (e.g. Everclear). You might get a nasty buzz, but at least you won't go blind.


----------



## four2knapp (Jun 19, 2011)

Wolfgang said:


> If the shellac is old and starting to crack or gator, try some straight krud kutter on it. Did it this way for years and it took about 90% of it off.


Some parts are gatored. I just tried the Kurd cutter. No go. Just cleaned it. Easier to use denatured alcohol. Dissolves extremely easy, as previously posted, will have to change the rag often. I have the doors with me to finish. Will go tomorrow and fight for work space with the contractor's painter and the floor guys. I was brought in by the designer.

No water, electricity ( I think there is a generator) nor air conditioning. So will have plenty of ventilation. HO suppose to move in August 1. They will be without kitchen cabs, sink and just heard no air. What a PITA. The electric lines need to be buried, so, they will move in on a generator, Ugggg! 

Thanks for all the replies!!!


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

There are not and weren't lead or lead acetate driers used in shellac. period. At least since the 1800's. Also lead acetate is the main ingredient in many hair tonics and dyes still in use today. The EPA knows they are there. They let them use it because the lead in lead acetate is not absorbed into the blood stream.

At one time lead was used in stains and dyes. But the question wasn't "is there lead in this stain?", but "could there be lead in this shellac?" which the answer to is "NO". 

I would recommend that you stop eating jelly beans and such if you are worried about lead being in shellac. Shellac uses alcohols as drying agents and no lead acetate is used.


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

This whole lead issue is blown way out of proportion. As soon as anyone has a notion that lead might be in something, regardless of the amount, it suddenly becomes as nasty as a reactor meltdown and everyone within 50 miles is going to die.We as a species have survived thousands of years of lead exposure much, much greater then any possible exposure we can get today. If you have a house more then 45 years old you have drunk more lead then you will ever get from sanding a clear finish. In fact one of the greatest risks of lead absorption is from burying your feet in the sand at just about any beach in the US. Or eating certain kinds of fish. They tell people not to eat certain types of fish because of the potential for mercury or lead poisoning, knowing full well that a person would have to eat that type of fish twice a day for 20 years before there was any dangerous build-up of heavy metals in your body.

In fact, the most poisonous substance your body can absorb is actually oxygen! It is extremely corrosive to your cells, and it is 100% fatal. 

Now if you were stripping a two story house with 20 coats of lead rich paint, you might be at a small risk of ingesting enough lead to do harm. But the amount of lead in a clear coat on a door? Just rinse it down with a glass of tap water and you'll magnify your potential lead absorption several hundred times over.

If you want or need to take a sample and send it in to be lab certified as lead free, make sure to get that money back in your quote! I'm sure there are some homeowners that are paranoid enough to require it.


----------



## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

Pacman I agree with you that the lead laws/rules are out of wack but at least my understanding if you are going to disturb a surface in a pre 1978 building you need to be RRP Certified or have it certified lead free by someone who is. I'm not trying to scare anyone I think the rule is dumb and even contacted senators when it was getting implemented to try and stop or change it but its the rule. One can follow it or not.


----------



## canopainting (Feb 12, 2013)

PACman said:


> This whole lead issue is blown way out of proportion. As soon as anyone has a notion that lead might be in something, regardless of the amount, it suddenly becomes as nasty as a reactor meltdown and everyone within 50 miles is going to die.We as a species have survived thousands of years of lead exposure much, much greater then any possible exposure we can get today. If you have a house more then 45 years old you have drunk more lead then you will ever get from sanding a clear finish. In fact one of the greatest risks of lead absorption is from burying your feet in the sand at just about any beach in the US. Or eating certain kinds of fish. They tell people not to eat certain types of fish because of the potential for mercury or lead poisoning, knowing full well that a person would have to eat that type of fish twice a day for 20 years before there was any dangerous build-up of heavy metals in your body. In fact, the most poisonous substance your body can absorb is actually oxygen! It is extremely corrosive to your cells, and it is 100% fatal. Now if you were stripping a two story house with 20 coats of lead rich paint, you might be at a small risk of ingesting enough lead to do harm. But the amount of lead in a clear coat on a door? Just rinse it down with a glass of tap water and you'll magnify your potential lead absorption several hundred times over. If you want or need to take a sample and send it in to be lab certified as lead free, make sure to get that money back in your quote! I'm sure there are some homeowners that are paranoid enough to require it.


 DITO thank you...


----------

