# Is priming new construction necessary



## slapiton (Jul 28, 2007)

I have painted new houses with primer and 2 coats and painted them with 2 coats and you cannot tell any difference in looks or durability. I have went back 3 years later and repainted some because the HO were tired of the color and wanted to change.It looked the same as it did when I left other than dust and dents from furniture.


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

maybe get away from the primer and 2 coats, and switch to a 2 coat primer/paint system. these work great for new construction.


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## scholarlypainting (Sep 30, 2008)

when i was in NC we used a prime/paint 2 coat system.. the key is to POLE SAND between coats.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

The big mass builders around here want two coats of flat. One for the primer and one for the finish. It's all about the money. (trim is different)


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

We always (new construction muilti homes only) one coat spray one coat roll or when times are hard like now one coat roll and one coat roll at finale. Except ceilings and closets, those get 2 coat spray. All enamel areas of course you need a primer but I do know some that prime with the flat wall.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Not surte if I understand this correctly. Are you asking if it is OK to, on new construction, just throw on two coats of finish paint ?

If that is the quiestion, then I have a one word answer, NO

Primers are formulated to penetrate, seal, and bond. Finish paints are formulated to bond and withstand the elements.

That's it in a nut shell, as I've been told by various paint chemists. 

I hope Wolverine or Formulator would better explain it.


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## painterdude (Jun 18, 2008)

daArch...I'm guessing they're talking about interior paint. The original poster mentioned furniture marks. Outside hopefully everything is primed for tne first coat, inside most new const. uses pva primer and one or 2 coats of finish depending on the sheen. Anything with any gloss, even eggshell or satin needs at least 2 for uniformity...no flashing. As for large developements they usually just spray walls and ceilings with the same popcorn white and backroll the second coat, not caring at all for overspray on windows, concrete floors etc. They also usually spray out louvered doors on the floor or against walls...which will lead to loose tile down the road. I'm talking big projects though. I bought one of those in Florida 11 years ago, it was amazing, but with an eventual 1800 houses it was all about speed. pd


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## The paint whisperer (Oct 18, 2007)

I think they should just do one coat for everything.
The more crappy jobs they do, more works for me down the road.:yes::yes:


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

I like to do a coat of pva and a top coat


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

PVA or primer is really the best way.If you have a long hallway or the sun shines down the walls or over head lights are close to the walls or shine alone them you will be sorry you didn't use a primer, besides primer seals in ways that paint can't, it evens out the surface and makes it as one piece instead of wallboard then joints then wallboard.


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## scholarlypainting (Sep 30, 2008)

johnpaint said:


> PVA or primer is really the best way.If you have a long hallway or the sun shines down the walls or over head lights are close to the walls or shine alone them you will be sorry you didn't use a primer, besides primer seals in ways that paint can't, it evens out the surface and makes it as one piece instead of wallboard then joints then wallboard.



perfect example of PVA/primer usage..:notworthy: we did a model home repaint.. just as everything was getting wrapped up the sun was hittin this foyer hallway.. ... u-g-l-y.


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

paint is not meant to go onto the drywall joints. It will stay to wet too long and can (have seen on MANY occasions) pop the tape off the corners (me repairing).. then you have a bonified mess. The pva is what I have used, I am going to be trying vapor barrier here in the near future.. but yeah, I ALWAYS use primer on new drywall. :thumbsup:


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## slapiton (Jul 28, 2007)

I have seen and painted many houses with and without primer. If you get the lighting right you will see sheetrock seems regardless of primer or not. The joints have a smoother texture than the boards themselves and that is just the way it is. The darker the paint and shinier the sheen the more obvious the seams.


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## slickshift (Apr 8, 2007)

I have re-painted enough "no primer originally" jobs that failed, were failing, or failed when I started work, that I can honestly say w/o any hyperbole that I hate painting companies that don't prime new drywall

Admittedly, there were a few of those jobs that held, but "a few" is not what the industry considers a target quality benchmark

I hear it often from the new const. guys, "I've never had a problem not priming"
The statement is correct
"They" never had a problem
The re-paint guys, they are the ones that get the problems
The H/Os, they are the ones that get the problems
Maybe not right away, maybe not for 7 or 12 years
But trust me, craploads of them do "have a problem"


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## slickshift (Apr 8, 2007)

slapiton said:


> *Is priming new construction necessary*


*Yes*


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

> *Yes*


:thumbup:


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

All depends on the final goal. Trust me when I say this, (generally speaking) latex, acrylic or pva primer does nothing for new drywall besides act as another coat or something on the board.

New drywall should be sealed instead. I do mainly new homes and tried most every primer known to me or available to me and even had some shipped in from out of my area to test on new board.

The simple fact is, there are paints that perform and adhere better to new board than (most) primers out there. I challenge any paint manufacturer to call me out on that. I've done extensive testing on this subject and have a good understanding on the (real) capabilities of primer which is so widely sought out to be some kind of fix all solution for painters. BS it is.

Builders dont want to pay for 3 coats and if you ask me, 2 coats of a finish paint that adheres better than primer is the best solution in that case. The ultimate finish on new smooth board is using Zinsser Gardz and 2 finish. An alternative solution but not as effective is one coat of ICI Gripper and one finish. Gripper does a nice job at holding sheen but lacks a bit on adhesion to new board in comparison to Gardz. 

2 coats of a flat on new board as long as you never had to touch it again, wash it, tape it etc would work. Some paints and primers really dont stick to new board at all, rather dry on the surface. There is a ton of info on this and some of the testing i did on my blog if you need more info. I can say this, out of 16 primers, not one of them performed the same. Each as their own characteristics and capabilities. PVAs are the worst on new board.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

"All depends on the final goal. Trust me when I say this, (generally speaking) latex, acrylic or pva primer does nothing for new drywall besides act as another coat or something on the board."

Sorry but wrong. whats the dif between getting primer on your hands or interior paint?The interior paint washes off very easy the primer sticks most of the day.


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## Mark (Oct 1, 2008)

slapiton said:


> I have painted new houses with primer and 2 coats and painted them with 2 coats and you cannot tell any difference in looks or durability. I have went back 3 years later and repainted some because the HO were tired of the color and wanted to change.It looked the same as it did when I left other than dust and dents from furniture.


 
Have you considered just tinting your primer to the topcoat color? If the man mixing the paint at your local paint store knows what he is doing you can sometimes get by with 2 coats if you are in a time crunch. Only one of the mixers here in my town can successfully match it to the color for me. The others don't know how to get it exact and of course it all depends on what color as well. Most of the builders where i am from just expect 1 coat of primer, 2 finish coats. Good luck.


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

and that depends on the finish coat's color also, think you said that.. primers are not deepbases and can only take so much, but at least you can "step" it to the color you need.


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

I'm still trying to figure out if this thread is a joke or not.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

ProWallGuy said:


> I'm still trying to figure out if this thread is a joke or not.


You didnt know that primer has always been just a manufacturers scam? :no:


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I know I have had issues on new construction jobs where the hold out from various traditional primers just does not seem to have sealed the walls well enough to avoid some telegraphing of the seams. Now, I doubt that skipping primer would improve the situation though (with the exception of Aura).


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

DeanV said:


> I know I have had issues on new construction jobs where the hold out from various traditional primers just does not seem to have sealed the walls well enough to avoid some telegraphing of the seams. Now, I doubt that skipping primer would improve the situation though (with the exception of Aura).


I don't think primer should be used as a filler to fill seams, you have to have good seams for that.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I am not talking about the texture necessarily, just an uneven sheen with the seams are or even on regular wall areas sometimes with the roller overlap pattern shows more than it should.


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## TopShelf (Nov 23, 2008)

I'm with PWG, is this a joke? Absolutely need a primer coat, it makes all the difference in the world. What kind of light was in the room a 7 watt night light?


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

ProWallGuy said:


> I'm still trying to figure out if this thread is a joke or not.


Nevermind. I think the OP's username says it all.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

see my Question thread


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

Ok guys, turn and look at your wife/girlfriend (or go upstairs and look at Mom). 
Look at their face and ask them how they manage to look so beautiful (or not). Some use a base/foundation or *primer*, then a powder/blush or *finish* and then lipstick or *trim.*
Now some look great, even, smooth face, some not so much.
Do we need foundation? Does it help to set the finish?
Depends on what look you are going for!
Ok, no more girly stuff, back to mantalk!


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## boman47k (May 10, 2008)

For the ones that go with 1 primer and i finish coat on new drywall, do you tint your primer if the finish is something besides white?


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

boman47k said:


> For the ones that go with 1 primer and i finish coat on new drywall, do you tint your primer if the finish is something besides white?


I do. The closer to the color the better, but make sure you don't just tell the paint store to put the same amount of color in as the paint because it will usualle come out too dark.Then your screwed.


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

John's right and if too dark, it will mess up the primer.. too much colorant screws up the base.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Nevermind. I think the OP's username says it all.

SLAPITON ,Duh:blink:


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## boman47k (May 10, 2008)

My thoughts on the *tinting* would be to go one or two shades lighter. I recently priced an addition, and I was going this route, but I was a little concerned about the mill thickness with just one coat. In the end, it did not matter as they decided they would do it themselves. They didn't realize how much it could cost to have someone to do it for them. 40 mile roundtrip. 
But, I consider that to be the nature of the beast we call the painting business. When the next one bites, I will recoup.


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## Mopaint (Oct 17, 2007)

Idealy I agree you should do a primer and 2 coats of finish. If you are on a tight budget and the finished product will be flat over new drywall 2 coats of SWP Pro-Mar 700 primer finish will work. This would be for a track house or low end apartment job. It's actually a nice look and some what washable. MOPAINT


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Mopaint said:


> Idealy I agree you should do a primer and 2 coats of finish. If you are on a tight budget and the finished product will be flat over new drywall 2 coats of SWP Pro-Mar 700 primer finish will work. This would be for a track house or low end apartment job. It's actually a nice look and some what washable. MOPAINT


Materials are a small percentage of a new construction budget. I find it hard to believe that people are engaging small enough budgets where a three coat system (prime +2) would not be possible.


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## CobraCDN (Jan 8, 2008)

This is mauled over among quite a few contractors up here in Canada. We always seal then 2 coat of finish. Cost is minimal if you do it like we do. Once the the tapers are done we move in, spray and backroll a coat of sealer (Tinted to the finish color), and then spray and backroll a finishcoat. With 2 guys going at it, one spraying and one back rolling, we can usually do a coat in under 2 hours. Then we do ceilings, Texture undercoat and then texture. Then we let the finishers come in and do their thing. I'm lucky, I'm well known in my area and have a good reputation. If they ask me to do it differently, I tell them to hire someone else. Amazes me that so many try to cut corners when it comes to our trade. We are more often then not the cheapest trade on any given new house. And yet it's us that make all the difference in a nice house as a whole or a shotty house.

Cheers


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## boman47k (May 10, 2008)

CobraCDN said:


> This is mauled over among quite a few contractors up here in Canada. *We always seal then 2 coat of finish. *Cost is minimal if you do it like we do. Once the the tapers are done we move in, *spray and backroll a coat of sealer (Tinted to the finish color), and then spray and backroll a finishcoat*. With 2 guys going at it, one spraying and one back rolling, we can usually do a coat in under 2 hours. Then we do ceilings, Texture undercoat and then texture. *Then we let the finishers come in and do their thing. *I'm lucky, I'm well known in my area and have a good reputation. If they ask me to do it differently, I tell them to hire someone else. Amazes me that so many try to cut corners when it comes to our trade. We are more often then not the cheapest trade on any given new house. And yet it's us that make all the difference in a nice house as a whole or a shotty house.
> 
> Cheers


So you actually only prime and one finish coat the walls. The finishers come in and do the second finish coat?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

CobraCDN said:


> This is mauled over among quite a few contractors up here in Canada. We always seal then 2 coat of finish. Cost is minimal if you do it like we do. Once the the tapers are done we move in, spray and backroll a coat of sealer (Tinted to the finish color), and then spray and backroll a finishcoat. With 2 guys going at it, one spraying and one back rolling, we can usually do a coat in under 2 hours. Then we do ceilings, Texture undercoat and then texture. Then we let the finishers come in and do their thing. I'm lucky, I'm well known in my area and have a good reputation. If they ask me to do it differently, I tell them to hire someone else. Amazes me that so many try to cut corners when it comes to our trade. We are more often then not the cheapest trade on any given new house. And yet it's us that make all the difference in a nice house as a whole or a shotty house.
> 
> Cheers


Well put.


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## CobraCDN (Jan 8, 2008)

boman47k said:


> So you actually only prime and one finish coat the walls. The finishers come in and do the second finish coat?



No we do the 2nd finish. My point was if you seal and 1st finish at the start the cost is minimal. There are a lot of outfits here that tint the sealer and then only put one finishcoat on. The saving in doing so really does not justify the shortcut.

Cheers


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## MGPC (Dec 11, 2008)

My experience is that a PVA primer is a little thin and will penetrate the board and joint compound versus a coat of paint that is to thick and dries on the surface, The PVA works like a chalk binder if there is a little dust left where I have seen paint with no primer have poor adhesion


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

I'm curious about the Gardz. I agree it's an amazing product. Similar to PPG Permanizer Plus on an exterior, in terms of sealing etc. Anyways, do you spray and backroll it? It's so thin I'd like to hear tips on that. thanks.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

VP said:


> I find it hard to believe that people are engaging small enough budgets where a three coat system (prime +2) would not be possible.


 The "going rate" around here for years (on starter homes) was 2 bucks a ft Int. and 1 buck Ext. Than a whole new crop of guys started running around saying, "I'm only getting $1.93 or $1.87, literally selling each other out for pennies on the floor sq ft
So, believe it or not...


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## slapiton (Jul 28, 2007)

I agree with you jack pauhl. Paint will adhere as good as primer if you pepare the surface properly. I have seen some contractors paint over the top of sheetrock dust and the coating will fail every time. Some make a big deal over nothing like the post about my screen name. A screen name is all it is and I own a very reputable painting company which is more than some can say. I posted this topic to get everyones opinion,not for someone to tell me how to do my job. You paint it your way and I will paint it my way.


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## boman47k (May 10, 2008)

CobraCDN said:


> No we do the 2nd finish. My point was if you seal and 1st finish at the start the cost is minimal. There are a lot of outfits here that tint the sealer and then only put *one finishcoat* on. The saving in doing so really does not justify the shortcut.
> 
> Cheers


My concern with that is the mil of the finish coat. I had rather not do it that way, even though, I was going to on the last job I quoted in order to get close to what I thought the ho had in mind of paying. Not sure that was in the ho's or my best interest.

* 
*


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## CobraCDN (Jan 8, 2008)

Yes it's all about the mil of finish, one finish rolled just will not wash as nice as 2 finishes. I don't care what magical coating your applying or how much of a super painter is applying it.. only way to get a single finish to wash nice is to spray it and not back roll, which is totally impractical. Myself I roll walls very wet, not many will put more material on then I do. Like mentioned before I would refuse a job before doing otherwise. Now those that like to do a single finish?.. THANKYOU for all the business you've sent my way  lol


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

CobraCDN said:


> Yes it's all about the mil of finish, one finish rolled just will not wash as nice as 2 finishes. I don't care what magical coating your applying or how much of a super painter is applying it.. only way to get a single finish to wash nice is to spray it and not back roll, which is totally impractical. Myself I roll walls very wet, not many will put more material on then I do. Like mentioned before I would refuse a job before doing otherwise. Now those that like to do a single finish?.. THANKYOU for all the business you've sent my way  lol


I like this guy :yes:


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

sherwin williams>>>>builders solution

this is a great 2 coat system

the primer is a primer/surfacer,,,(great for cookie cutters) this is tinted to the color.

and the topcoat has a matte appearance,,,,,,and touches up great

this is a great system, and its 2 coats.

this wouldnt be my choice for a fine home,,,,but if you have a tight budget, and want great results check it out.

this material was engineered for 2 coats, high production.


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## Joewho (Apr 17, 2007)

variables, like two colors, ceiling white and walls something else.

How much touch up? No matter how many coats, I usually have to roll out all the walls before final. Why lay out 1 prime, 2 top and then roll all the walls for a 3'd coat? It's easy to anticipate this.

I absolutely prefer primer. But, I also want to please the builder. When it comes to flat paint, there are lots of "self-priming" paints out there that look just fine without primer, especially after touch ups and finals.

Lots of paints are better than cheaper primers. Tract projects would be a good candidate for the self primers while higher end homes would be better for using good primers and proper top coats.

It can go either way. If I'm in a position to use paint only, I usually tighten the belt on customer contact. The builder is my customer, I'm doing what he wants....backed up by writing.


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## CobraCDN (Jan 8, 2008)

Joewho said:


> How much touch up? No matter how many coats, I usually have to roll out all the walls before final. Why lay out 1 prime, 2 top and then roll all the walls for a 3'd coat? It's easy to anticipate this.


So eliminate the 2nd finish and do the 1st and 3rd. See 1 + 3 can equal 2 lol . Only one in after me is the electrician putting on his faceplates. So no need for touchups.

Cheers


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## CobraCDN (Jan 8, 2008)

Thought I would add, I did not intent that last post to be disrespectful (Thanks to my wife for pointing it out that it could be taken in such a way).

May I ask, why can't you hold off on your final roll till the end of the project?

Cheers


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