# Severe Nicotine Removal



## Tprice2193 (Oct 3, 2017)

Typically I deal with Nicotine with a wash with hot TSP, 
rinse, BIN, and two coats. Is there anything new in this arrena. I have tried krudcutter and it works just not nearly as well. Thanks in advance for your input.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

*Prep for Painting Nicotene*

There's always something new in this arena, but like you, I always go back to what has proven to work time and time again. TSP & hot water still reign supreme IMO, provided you can still get TSP, and provided you thoroughly rinse it afterwards. I've tried using various hybrids, alkyds, synthetic shellacs, etc., but none are as effective as the OG Bin.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

So, a question; is it better to try and wash as much of the nicotine residue off but still have to seal it with a shellac based primer because you don’t/can’t get it all? Or, is it better to just go straight to sealing it and skip the washing totally? 

I’ve heard both approaches advocated. Personally, if it is really bad on a satin or semi-gloss surface, I have tried to wash it off. If it’s not terrible, and it is on a surface with a flat sheen, I would have decided to skip the washing. 

Actually, the best way I finally found to deal with jobs that have severe nicotine issues is to just refuse to do them anymore.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

RH said:


> just refuse to do them anymore.



The stench from the wash water is absolutely disgusting, and that's coming from someone who smokes. I have no idea how people still smoke in their houses anymore. It's gross. I don't care if it's -30C out, I'm not lighting up in my house.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

*BIN for the WIN*



RH said:


> So, a question; is it better to try and wash as much of the nicotine residue off but still have to seal it with a shellac based primer because you don’t/can’t get it all? Or, is it better to just go straight to sealing it and skip the washing totally?
> 
> I’ve heard both approaches advocated. Personally, if it is really bad on a satin or semi-gloss surface, I have tried to wash it off. If it’s not terrible, and it is on a surface with a flat sheen, I would have decided to skip the washing.
> 
> Actually, the best way I finally found to deal with jobs that have severe nicotine issues is to just refuse to do them anymore.


Not trying to speak for anyone else, but for me, if I know it'll seal up with shellac, block the smell and have sufficient adhesion, I can't think of many occasions where I'd even try to wash it, (except for wood).

From my experience, even a thorough washing & good painting doesn't always suffice, so if I'm going to shellac it anyways, the juice just isn't worth the squeeze.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Best painting practices would obviously include a pre primer wash of whatever crud remover the painter enjoys. 

There are reasons I've followed the best practices in reference to addressing nicotine stained interiors, and there are reasons I haven't. The following examples are where I have followed best practices:

1. Where I was painting over a semi gloss oil base surface found in a Kitchen
2. Where the nicotine stain had affected semi gloss trim
3. Where a wash was expected in a quote

Examples of where I haven't followed best painting practices:

1. Where the home had been so neglected over the years and the Smokey of the house was allowed to pollute the environment without any resistance
2. Where the budget was tight and I was able to spray a single coat of flat alkyd throughout the interior
3. Where I wanted to use BIN (because flat alkyd was no longer available) and where any moisture contamination from wet cleaning would take too long to dry and potentially cause my shellac to fail. 
4. Where I just couldn't agree to scrub nicotine off the walls, and where Smokey just couldn't understand why that would be an even larger expense for him or her, than a straight paint job would be.

I'm with RH. Walk away from the pollution. Let someone desperate handle it.

At the end of the day, an alkyd or shellac needs to be applied over nicotine to prevent bleeding if it can't be washed off. And typically, it can't.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

Back in the day, I Kilzed my buddies house that had probably 40 straight years of nonstop smoke of all kinds, without washing. It held tight.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Woodco said:


> Back in the day, I Kilzed my buddies house that had probably 40 straight years of nonstop smoke of all kinds, without washing. It held tight.


That would be one of those examples where I wouldn't entertain washing for even one minute. Forty years! Holy smokes! I wonder what his, or the former owner's lungs looked like.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I'm not sure how I would react if a gross smoker requested that I use an eco friendly alternative to the most volatile primer I could get my hands on to address the damage they caused from their tar infused exhalation.


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## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

CApainter said:


> That would be one of those examples where I wouldn't entertain washing for even one minute. Forty years! Holy smokes! I wonder what his, or the former owner's lungs looked like.



Holy smokes. I caught that!


I generally just reach for the Kilz.


And like Wildbill I'm a "gross smoker." But never in the house.


There is nothing like pouring a little whiskey, sitting on the patio, rolling up a smoke (yes, a hand roller) and having a whiskey with some quality tobacco. It's an ahhhhh moment.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Joe67 said:


> Holy smokes. I caught that!
> 
> 
> I generally just reach for the Kilz.
> ...


I've got to be honest. I enjoyed smoking. But now, I just enjoy the whiskey. If my wife wasn't so paranoid about my health, I'd be enjoying a Macanudo right now!


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## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

CApainter said:


> I've got to be honest. I enjoyed smoking. But now, I just enjoy the whiskey. If my wife wasn't so paranoid about my health, I'd be enjoying a Macanudo right now!



Ok, but cigars are so different. It's just not the same thing. She could just lighten up about the _occasional_ Macanudo.


My most influential painting "mentor" - unfortunately - did have a huge coronary event. Tobacco lover. But since then, off the cigarettes, but still has the occasional cigar. And Macanudos something of a goto. 



Ah, but ok. Healthier to stay away from it either way...


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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

i think youd have to be nuts to scrub nicotine caked walls by hand before spraying bin


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*How I did it*

Back in 2016 I did cleaned a ranch house where the owner smoked throughout. I used OmniPro Vission to clean and added OmniPro Smoke & More to deodorize:

http://omniprorestoration.com/restoration_chemicals.php

I used a faoming pump up sprayer to apply this mix:

https://www.sprayers-plus.com/produ...X6u56TaD_8MyzuwZMbn-CM8A_-vPJpaRoCCI0QAvD_BwE

Then I used a window washing brush on a pole to scrub it, then I used a professional floor squeegee attached to my wet vac to vac it up. Afterwards I rinsed with clear water and wet vac'd that up. One bedroom and the kitchen had wallpaper, so I washed and rinsed those by hand.

When I was done cleaning, the owners and the realtor remarked that the cigarette smell was almost gone. After priming the walls with Kilz Max 

https://www.hardwareworld.com/prnh9...eC95NdRSZWOM14-U0vp-mcdhLPeTHMrBoCrD0QAvD_BwE

and removing the carpet and washing the floors, it was very hard to detect any cigarette odor.

Of course I charged for all of this.

futtyos


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Years ago I did some of the interior of a neighbor’s house. He was a heavy smoker and I took all the necessary steps to deal with it. About six to eight months after it was done he asked me about some brown stains running down the walls in their one and only bathroom. Of course it was the new layer of smoke residue which was getting wet by condensation on the walls during showers/baths and then running in brownish streaks. When I tried to explain that to him, he wouldn’t believe me.


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## jennifertemple (Oct 30, 2011)

RH said:


> Years ago I did some of the interior of a neighbor’s house. He was a heavy smoker and I took all the necessary steps to deal with it. About six to eight months after it was done he asked me about some brown stains running down the walls in their one and only bathroom. Of course it was the new layer of smoke residue which was getting wet by condensation on the walls during showers/baths and then running in brownish streaks. When I tried to explain that to him, he wouldn’t believe me.


That would be an EX-Client!:vs_smirk:I wouldn't care whether he believed me or not. NO FIXING!


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

RH said:


> Years ago I did some of the interior of a neighbor’s house. He was a heavy smoker and I took all the necessary steps to deal with it. About six to eight months after it was done he asked me about some brown stains running down the walls in their one and only bathroom. Of course it was the new layer of smoke residue which was getting wet by condensation on the walls during showers/baths and then running in brownish streaks. When I tried to explain that to him, he wouldn’t believe me.



Recommend a fart fan, squawk like an exotic bird, and cartwheel out the front door. What else can you do?


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

CApainter said:


> Recommend a fart fan, squawk like an exotic bird, and cartwheel out the front door. What else can you do?


Nah, I considered, but ultimately decided against, doing any of those. I did my best to explain and it was then up to him to face facts. Never heard back about it and still did further work for him so...


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## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

RH said:


> Nah, I considered, but ultimately decided against, doing any of those. I did my best to explain and it was then up to him to face facts. Never heard back about it and still did further work for him so...



Hopefully it was exterior work :smile:


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

So glad I live in CA where a pack of smokes is like $8. I literally have never had a client who was a smoker. I don't think I could ever see myself washing a wall soaked with nicotine. I'll pass everytime.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*What about the money?*



MikeCalifornia said:


> So glad I live in CA where a pack of smokes is like $8. I literally have never had a client who was a smoker. I don't think I could ever see myself washing a wall soaked with nicotine. I'll pass everytime.


What if you charged enough to make it worth your time and the customer was willing to pay? I remember washing the ceiling and walls in a bedroom years ago. The old guy who lived there was selling his house. His children had gotten him to smoke only in his bedroom. The ceiling and walls were amber colored. I bought a 2 part solution from my janitorial outlet that was normally used to clean recessed ceiling panels in restaurants. One part was hydrogen peroxide, the other part enzymes. Mix the 2 into a garden sprayer with one gallon hot water and spray. I put a heavy drop cloth down and a wet vac if I remember correctly. Everything turned a very light off-white. When I was done the ceiling and walls looked like they had just been painted! The realtor I had done this for was very happy to say the least.

futtyos


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

futtyos said:


> What if you charged enough to make it worth your time and the customer was willing to pay? I remember washing the ceiling and walls in a bedroom years ago. The old guy who lived there was selling his house. His children had gotten him to smoke only in his bedroom. The ceiling and walls were amber colored. I bought a 2 part solution from my janitorial outlet that was normally used to clean recessed ceiling panels in restaurants. One part was hydrogen peroxide, the other part enzymes. Mix the 2 into a garden sprayer with one gallon hot water and spray. I put a heavy drop cloth down and a wet vac if I remember correctly. Everything turned a very light off-white. When I was done the ceiling and walls looked like they had just been painted! The realtor I had done this for was very happy to say the least.
> 
> futtyos


Nope, there is not enough money, and there is always a limit to what the buyer will pay.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*buyer or seller?*



MikeCalifornia said:


> Nope, there is not enough money, and there is always a limit to what the buyer will pay.


What if the home owner is a smoker and wants to sell the house and the realtor is telling him/her that the cigarette smoke smell is going to turn away many prospective buyers? How much is getting rid of cigarette smell worth at this point?

If you knew of a way to make the nicotine smell go away, wouldn't you try to sell that?

I have read a number of painters here who would not bother to wash before priming with an odor blocking primer. I wouldimagine that even the best odor blocking primer will still let some of the cig odor outgas at some point and under certain circumstances - such as high humidity?

If an odor blocking primer can cover most of the cig smell without washing the walls first, how much better will it block those odors when the ceilings and walls are properly washed with cleaning agents that will help neutralize the odor causing cigarette chemicals?

Also, if unwashed ceilings and walls are primed and the odor still comes through, how do you then wash the affected surfaces seeing as how they have been sealed over with primer?

On my last job there was bug residue on the ceilings and walls. The management co. said it was from gnats, but it looked like cockroach stuff to me. The owner of the unit primed most of the ceilings and wlls with Kilz 2 and the bug residue bled through. Kind of hard to wash the residue off after the surface has been primed! We had to prime the ceilings with Cover Stain to seal over the bug residue. Two walls and one section of ceiling in the bedroom were left unprimed, so I washed those areas (at an additional cost, mind you) and there was no need to prime as there was no residue to bleed through.

On the cigarette smoke job I did back in 2017, I charged a bit over 1000.00 to do the cleaning. The owner's children decided they would rather have that done and the ceilings and walls only primed than not washing and have the priming and painting done

You are correct about there being limits as to what people will pay to have a job done right, but I would think that a conscientious painter would give a client the option to have the job done right. Do you agree with that?

futtyos


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

IMO, cleaning to prep for a paint job and cleaning to try and rid a place of cigarette smell were two separate things. I typically only concentrated on the former and rarely on the latter except that there was obviously less odor after the surfaces to be painted were properly prepped and coated. Residual smoke smell could be in a myriad of places. Hardware, fixtures, inside cabinets if not painted), and the more obvious; floor and window coverings. Not every owner was willing to have every square inch cleaned to rid a place of the smell. Plus, I hated the cleaning part of prep so the last thing I wanted to offer and do was more of it. But, if it’s something you don’t mind doing, it certainly makes sense to offer it as a service.


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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

futtyos said:


> What if the home owner is a smoker and wants to sell the house and the realtor is telling him/her that the cigarette smoke smell is going to turn away many prospective buyers? How much is getting rid of cigarette smell worth at this point?
> 
> If you knew of a way to make the nicotine smell go away, wouldn't you try to sell that?


if the walls are that soaked in nicotine that bin doesnt take care of it in two sprayed coats why put the liability of the job of the painter when a professional cleaning company should probably be taking care of it at a more experienced cost? 

and for the contractors like me who thinks t&m is a bad idea now you have to quote scrubbings which probably isnt as easy as it sounds, plus i dont really think its part of the trade


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

BIN is the answer to everything horrible. Any homeowner wanting something more user, or eco friendly, can find some other dummy to do it. I don't have that kind of time to worry and waste. Nuke it baby!


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Where is it written?*

To each their own, but I wonder where it is written tht one trade can only do this, not that. I am not shy to do what needs to be done if I think I can do it. Perhaps running a janitorial business for almost 20 years helps when faced by problems that "appear" to be beyond the ken of mere painters. :smile:

futtyos


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

futtyos said:


> What if the home owner is a smoker and wants to sell the house and the realtor is telling him/her that the cigarette smoke smell is going to turn away many prospective buyers? How much is getting rid of cigarette smell worth at this point?
> 
> If you knew of a way to make the nicotine smell go away, wouldn't you try to sell that?
> 
> ...



Don't you know all painters are premadonnas!! I would make them skin all the walls with 1/4 drywall.


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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

futtyos said:


> To each their own, but I wonder where it is written tht one trade can only do this, not that. I am not shy to do what needs to be done if I think I can do it. Perhaps running a janitorial business for almost 20 years helps when faced by problems that "appear" to be beyond the ken of mere painters. :smile:
> 
> futtyos


how do you quote the scrubbing of thousands of square feet?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

What would be your reaction if you just spent an entire day scrubbing lung paste off the walls, and ceilings no less, only to have the homeowner sit back in his nearly collapsed smoke saturated lounge chair, commenting that you missed a spot on the trim? Even while he sits there in a cloud of tar from yet another cigarette, laughing at a rerun of M.A.S.H.?


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Selling the house*



CApainter said:


> What would be your reaction if you just spent an entire day scrubbing lung paste off the walls, and ceilings no less, only to have the homeowner sit back in his nearly collapsed smoke saturated lounge chair, commenting that you missed a spot on the trim? Even while he sits there in a cloud of tar from yet another cigarette, laughing at a rerun of M.A.S.H.?


I did a cigarette smoke cleaning job a few years ago. The old man who lived there smoked like a chimney. He had to go into a nursing home. His children had to get the house ready for sale. They were tickled pink by what i was able to do with first washing the nicotine and tar off ceilings, walls and trim, then priming with Kilz Max. All the furniture was removed and we also removed the carpet, padding, tackless and staples, then washed the oak floors with the same chemicals we used to clean the ceiling and walls with. The realtor (who throws a lot of work my way) was also very happy.

futtyos


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

futtyos said:


> I did a cigarette smoke cleaning job a few years ago. The old man who lived there smoked like a chimney. He had to go into a nursing home. His children had to get the house ready for sale. They were tickled pink by what i was able to do with first washing the nicotine and tar off ceilings, walls and trim, then priming with Kilz Max. All the furniture was removed and we also removed the carpet, padding, tackless and staples, then washed the oak floors with the same chemicals we used to clean the ceiling and walls with. The realtor (who throws a lot of work my way) was also very happy.
> 
> futtyos


What did you charge?


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*What I charged for nicotine removal*



MikeCalifornia said:


> What did you charge?


2.	Wash and rinse all areas of 1st floor that are reachable to wash: ceilings, walls, doors, windows, trim, cabinets, etc., to try and get as much cigarette smoke and nicotine off as possible. (Note: we use a wet vac to remove both the cleaning solution as well as the rinse water on ceilings and walls so that a minimum of cigarette smoke residue remains.) 
(Note: the cleaning of light fixtures and fans should not have been included in #2. All this cleaning takes time and needs to be thorough. My notes on cleaning ceilings, walls, trim and cabinets did not include light fixtures and fans. I don’t know why I included these in #2.)

Labor: 950.00
Materials: chemicals to clean nicotine and cigarette smoke 100.00
(Note: I was going to give an allowance on the chemicals that were used, 
but the labor for cleaning went over what I had estimated by at least 2 
full days, so the charge for the chemicals will remain at 100.00)

Total Labor & Materials for #2: 1050.00

3.	Clean cigarette tar and nicotine from ceiling fans in 2 bedrooms and light fixtures in 3rd bedroom, kitchen, hallway, bathroom and rear entrance, as well as from the ceiling exhaust fan in bathroom
Labor: 240.00
(Note: ceiling fan was taken apart, cleaned and motor lubricated, but 
nicotine stains on cover were unable to be removed, so a replacement 
cover was purchased and installed) 10.00

Total Labor & Materials for #3: 250.00 




Probably not enough, but the customers were happy and we made some money. I would charge more next time.

futtyos


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

futtyos said:


> 2. Wash and rinse all areas of 1st floor that are reachable to wash: ceilings, walls, doors, windows, trim, cabinets, etc., to try and get as much cigarette smoke and nicotine off as possible. (Note: we use a wet vac to remove both the cleaning solution as well as the rinse water on ceilings and walls so that a minimum of cigarette smoke residue remains.)
> (Note: the cleaning of light fixtures and fans should not have been included in #2. All this cleaning takes time and needs to be thorough. My notes on cleaning ceilings, walls, trim and cabinets did not include light fixtures and fans. I don’t know why I included these in #2.)
> 
> Labor: 950.00
> ...



This is what I was getting at. $1300 is not enough for me to want to do this or have my guys do it. And to say you would charge more next time rarely happens. Thanks for sharing.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Make the quote worth your while.*



MikeCalifornia said:


> This is what I was getting at. $1300 is not enough for me to want to do this or have my guys do it. And to say you would charge more next time rarely happens. Thanks for sharing.


I guess it all depends on what types of jobs you are used to doing. I had done a lot of work through the realtor who sent the cigarette cleaning job my way and I didn't want to just blow him off.

That being said, it really was a tiring job to do the cig smoke cleaning by myself. I think it would go easier and faster with 2 people, less tiring as well.

Smoke damage contracotors do this kind of work all the time, so it is doable. Whether one wants to do it is another thing. I have passed on certain jobs for this reason.

futtyos


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Nicotine removal should automatically have a "Special Condition" premium attached to it, because painters are painters and janitors are janitors. Typically, the home owner acts as their own janitor, mover, gardener, and decorator if they don't contract it out to someone else.

So, it only makes sense to charge a going rate for labor, materials, and supplies, on top of the painters cost when performing any one of those tasks.

There has to be a monetary consequence for homeowners who neglect their homes. Whether it be peeling paint from neglect on an exterior, Biohazardous waste on bathroom floors and walls, or polluted ceilings and walls from tar lung. 

It's enough as it is to get compensated for your worth as a painter when balancing a liquid building material from a container to a surface (and maintain a quality of appearance and performance) let alone getting compensated for being the house maid too. I mean, I've had to vacuum more often to prep a disgusting carpet for my drops than I have for removing construction debris. OK...I'm exaggerating a bit.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Cigarette odor removal*



CApainter said:


> Nicotine removal should automatically have a "Special Condition" premium attached to it, because painters are painters and janitors are janitors. Typically, the home owner acts as their own janitor, mover, gardener, and decorator if they don't contract it out to someone else.
> 
> So, it only makes sense to charge a going rate for labor, materials, and supplies, on top of the painters cost when performing any one of those tasks.
> 
> ...


If you have a client that needs BOTH cigarette odor removal AND painting, either for rental or sale of property, how would you go about helping them in the best way possible?

I just did a quick search on cigarette smoke removal and came up with this:

https://www.biosweepchi.com/

I am familiar with and have used ozone generators before, but this looks to be better than that. I have emailed the Chicago branch of this service and will report back.

futtyos


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

futtyos said:


> If you have a client that needs BOTH cigarette odor removal AND painting, either for rental or sale of property, how would you go about helping them in the best way possible?
> 
> I just did a quick search on cigarette smoke removal and came up with this:
> 
> ...


It's the "helping them" part that I have trouble with. The "Helping" part of a homeowner and contractor relationship should be at the consulting stage of negotiations, not at the wall. For Example:

Contractor - "How can I help you?'

Homeowner- "I need to deodorize and paint my mother's house because she was a chain smoker and I need to sell the house, but I can't in this condition."

Contractor- "Well, the first thing you need to do is to remove the nicotine from the ceiling, walls, and trim. Then, you need to prime the walls before applying a couple of coats of a finish paint. And even then, you will have to remove all of the floor covering and window dressing. This is my suggestion"

Homeowner-"Well how much will that cost?

Contractor-"Well, we don't generally remove carpets, drapes, etc. without additional costs for that service. But we do charge a premium for cleaning special circumstance surface contaminates like nicotine or biohazards limited to mold, mildew, and occasionally animal urine. Any bloodborne contaminates, vomit, or any bodily fluids, we recommend hiring the services of a professional biohazard removal company."

Homeowner- "Special Circumstance Contaminates? Are you serious?"

Contractor- "Yep"

Homeowner- "I thought painting was painting" 

Contractor -"Well,...

Homeowner-"Uh...That's OK. Thanks for your time" *click*

Contractor- "Yea. Sure. Anytime" *click*


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Rejecting a strawman?*



CApainter said:


> It's the "helping them" part that I have trouble with. The "Helping" part of a homeowner and contractor relationship should be at the consulting stage of negotiations, not at the wall. For Example:
> 
> Contractor - "How can I help you?'
> 
> ...


CApainter, it looks like you have reduced the negotiations between a Homeowner and a Contractor to the point of ridiculousness so it is easier to reject everything out of hand. If it were me, I would ask what their realtor is saying should be done and possibly ask to speak with that realtor. 

How do you approach prospective clients about painting a house they want to sell or an appartment they want to rent that reeks of cigarette smoke?

futtyos


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

futtyos said:


> CApainter, it looks like you have reduced the negotiations between a Homeowner and a Contractor to the point of ridiculousness so it is easier to reject everything out of hand. If it were me, I would ask what their realtor is saying should be done and possibly ask to speak with that realtor.
> 
> How do you approach prospective clients about painting a house they want to sell or an appartment they want to rent that reeks of cigarette smoke?
> 
> futtyos


CApainter- "Wow! What a mess"

Homeowner- "I know. My Mom smoked like a chimney" 

CApainter- "So, how do want to go about this? If you're looking for a quick sell job, I'd recommended spraying the entire thing out with an oil or shellac primer, then spraying a finish over that. Including the trim and cabinets. If you want the full Monty, I'd have to charge you for scrubbing ceiling, walls and trim before priming and painting. 

Homeowner- "If I just want the same off white color, can I skip the primer after washing?" 

CApainter- "No. Not really. The nicotine can discolor the new finish if it isn't primed over with an oil, or shellac. Even after all that scrubbing. It imbeds in the existing paint." 

Homeowner- "Will the paint peel if it isn't washed?"

CApainter- "Not with an oil, or shellac over it. I would recommend cleaning any enamel surfaces though. Just for good measure."

Homeowner- "Man. I have way too much stuff to do on this house."

CApainter- I'll give you a price for just wiping down the trim and spraying the house out with a coat of primer. Then I'll spray a coat of flat on the walls and I'll paint a semi gloss on the trim. All the same color off white. It helps to sell easier."

Homeowner- "OK. Thanks."


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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

futtyos said:


> How do you approach prospective clients about painting a house they want to sell or an appartment they want to rent that reeks of cigarette smoke?
> 
> futtyos


"in my experience two coats BIN covers most smokey smelling places(which it does), in the case of extreme smoke damage or if the homeowner wants to spend the money to "play it safe" i recommend a professional cleaning company as they can price and perform the task more efficiently"


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Biosweep testimonials*

I am going to contact Biosweep and listen to what they have to say about how well their technology can get rid of smoke and other odors. Meanwhile, here is a link to some of their testimonials:

https://biosweep.com/customer-testimonials/

futtyos


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

CApainter said:


> It's the "helping them" part that I have trouble with. The "Helping" part of a homeowner and contractor relationship should be at the consulting stage of negotiations, not at the wall. For Example:
> 
> Contractor - "How can I help you?'
> 
> ...



A hearty thanks from all the painting contractors of this world, CA. 

Tomorrow evening at 8:00 CDT, we’re going to open our windows and shout “ We’re tired of this sh!t and we’re not gonna take it anymore!”

Join me brothers and sisters of the brush!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Biosweep email response*



futtyos said:


> I am going to contact Biosweep and listen to what they have to say about how well their technology can get rid of smoke and other odors. Meanwhile, here is a link to some of their testimonials:
> 
> https://biosweep.com/customer-testimonials/
> 
> futtyos


I got a reply from BioSweep of Chicagoland. Here is my email and the reply:

Message: I am a house painter and also belong to an online forum for painting contractors, Painttalk.com . We are currently having a discussion about whether painters should try to clean cigarette smoke odors BEFORE painting, or just seal the surfaces with 2 coats of BIN primer. I am of the opinion to clean before painting. I would be curious if painting contractors in the Chicago area use your services.

Answer:

In my experience, just trying to cover the walls with multiple coats of primer only works on minimal odors. The smell will always find a way to come through, especially when it gets hot and humid. Cleaning the walls prior to painting definitely helps. Painters typically don’t contact me directly, but my service will permanently remove the smoke odor in a house and it won’t need two coats of primer afterwards. It doesn’t need any primer at all if the walls are clean enough. I hope this was helpful. 

Thank you,

Collin Framburg
BioSweep of Chicagoland

I will give Collin a call during the week and check this out further with him.

futtyos


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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

futtyos said:


> In my experience, just trying to cover the walls with multiple coats of primer only works on minimal odors.


well that just simply isnt true, spraying down everything including sub floor has always worked miracles, lets give BIN a little credit


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## NACE (May 16, 2008)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> There's always something new in this arena, but like you, I always go back to what has proven to work time and time again. TSP & hot water still reign supreme IMO, provided you can still get TSP, and provided you thoroughly rinse it afterwards. I've tried using various hybrids, alkyds, synthetic shellacs, etc., but none are as effective as the OG Bin.


Painted an old Speakeasy in New Jersey that had 50 years of nicotine buildup on every surface. Bar, tables, chairs, ceilings, doors etc. Took days to wash and rinse with TSP, hot water and sponges/rags. Found bottles of whiskey hidden in secret compartments in the bar with no tax stamp. Primed with “Pigmy” as we called BIN. Used 7 pound amber shellac on tables chairs bar and doors. That was 1977. Restaurant still exists and so does the paint job. Was making $3.50/hour. That rinse water still makes me gag when I smell TSP and water.


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