# Trick Question Behr Premium Plus Flat



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Anyone care to explain why BEHR Premium Plus Flat is no good? More specifically in the same price range for a $24 flat, which other products are better and what do they do better?

Its widely known paint contractors do not like Behr, I believe someone posted a 99% statistic. What I don't get is no one seems to offer up any reasons why Behr sucks.


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## zerowned (Jul 23, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


> Anyone care to explain why BEHR Premium Plus Flat is no good? More specifically in the same price range for a $24 flat, which other products are better and what do they do better?
> 
> Its widely known paint contractors do not like Behr, I believe someone posted a 99% statistic. What I don't get is no one seems to offer up any reasons why Behr sucks.



i find it doesnt cover as good as other paint... but you just opened a can of worms.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

I just don't like the satin. Had a problem covering white with .......white!


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

zerowned said:


> but you just opened a can of worms.


Thats what he does best.. 

Personally never like the coverage especially white, too thick never spread very well. very smacky (A term anold guy i know likes to use)when it rolls... and worst of all the service to contractors at HD, Lowes and so on does not exist...


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## JCM (Jan 6, 2009)

It sux to move. Homedepot is killing mom and pops just like walmart and it covers like sh!t. @24 bux a gallon I would expect more of a product like Muralo. Now I will never visit this thread again.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I did not care for how it laid off the roller and it was not as forgiving for quickly recoating as the paint I usually use, would cause small bubbles in the previous coat on those small jobs (HO provided it) when a quick recoat is important.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

Also I had issue with the roller pulling off the cuts.. something that is suppose to happen with Aura and I have yet to experience... I will say this was years ago when I also ad a HO buy on it job that we were hire to fix as the HO gave up trying to paint there foyer.. Has it change since then?? maybe.. but again service for contractors suck at HD at least at the paint counter...


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

Using normal techniques tends to sag on cuts and does not like to be thinned or extended to avoid this problem.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

If I have to make it work I will. On Occasion the HO has picked up the paint and got Behr from HD. Not a big deal. I've worked with it before and I'd like to think I can make any paint work. I do not think it is a high quality product and I prefer to use BM and SW. 


I'm sure you are going to tell us that the formula for the flat is the same as BM super spec flat ....or something like that.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> I'm sure you are going to tell us that the formula for the flat is the same as BM super spec flat ....or something like that.


If that's the case then its over priced!


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


> Anyone care to explain why BEHR Premium Plus Flat is no good? More specifically in the same price range for a $24 flat, which other products are better and what do they do better?
> 
> Its widely known paint contractors do not like Behr, I believe someone posted a 99% statistic. What I don't get is no one seems to offer up any reasons why Behr sucks.


I just used some to help a carpenter friend who remodeled the upstairs of his house. He bought it, I used it.

It's kind of watery. It really spatters. It doesn't cover. 

But it also does this thing where after you roll it on, and it looks good: every where there is a little mound from a section of "nap", it eventually kind of sags there.

When it dries in, the sheen is flat enough that you cant notice it. But it is kind of unnerving to have the physical shape of the the rolled surface change 15 minutes after you put it on the wall.

It's like a million little sags where each section of nap rolled over the paint.

Once I put my paint on, I don't want it to do anything except shrink until it's dry.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

I got to agree with Neps, i have used it before and I have made it work fine. It is not what I would buy to do a job but when they have already purchased it you have to bite the bullet and make it happen. 
It is over priced and it does not cover as well as cheaper flats.


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## JNLP (Dec 13, 2007)

I'm no genius, I ask alot of questions about products and technique. If something odd happens on the job I call and ask more questions. The part time cashier filling in for the full time paint department guy who doesn't know squat about squat anyways can't answer my questions. When they do even my mother would be able to call them out on giving the wrong advice they think is right cause they watched a couple episodes of Trading Spaces.

The real paint stores atleast have one educated person around to answer anything and everything. They're willing to come look at a job and give advice. They're willing to troubleshoot certain situations & even possibly fix the situation on their dime. Why give all that up to save only a couple dollars on some usually lesser quality paint, that you have to stand in line behind 5 people trying to figure out how to use the self scan machine to buy as all the people operated registers happen to be closed that day (and soon forever).


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## roccofella (Mar 1, 2009)

why does Behr suck? to me is really more than justt a paint question. I get poor advice and help for that matter from HD employees, which i dont like to support )sundries ok). For the $24 price tag or whatever i can get my Silken Touch that outperforms any Behr product and even save a few bucks for flat and i support a local paint store that knows my name and cares for my interests. Its not the worst paint and definately not the best, hided i find is decent likes to sag if applied to thick and poor leveling.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Why is it that ho's think that if paint is thick it most be the best paint, and as painters our job is to make it not thick so we can get the crap applied.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

10 or so responses

Did anyone admit to actually using this crap because they had a choice? None, a couple said they would make it work and any REAL painter could,but at what cost?


Never argue with a fool - they will drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience. :thumbsup: No more arguments from me!, Mr Jack on the other hand

Originally Posted by *zerowned*  
_but you just opened a can of worms._
Thats what he does best.. :yes:


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Excellent replies. Many of you know i've been around on various forums for a long time and the BEHR sucks campaign seems to be common but I've failed to see a valid thread as to why even when threads go 11 pages. The bottom line is always unanimously BEHR sucks without any explanation. 

I picked BEHR Premium Plus Flat because flats are the most forgiving and typically the easiest to apply to get nice results. I will say, all of the responses on this post have been said about competitive flats too even at prices double what this flat costs and in the same breath there are flats about $10 less contractor price that perform fine.

I used this product before several times as well as other sheens from BEHR and in my opinion there are far worse options. I didn't find this product to be overly difficult to use and its not a product I personally recommend either but when it all comes down to the wide selection of flats, there are only a few I would use.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> I picked BEHR Premium Plus Flat because flats are the most forgiving and typically the easiest to apply to get nice results. I will say, all of the responses on this post have been said about competitive flats too even at prices double what this flat costs and in the same breath there are flats about $10 less contractor price that perform fine.
> 
> I used this product before several times as well as other sheens from BEHR and in my opinion there are far worse options. I didn't find this product to be overly difficult to use and its not a product I personally recommend either but when it all comes down to the wide selection of flats, there are only a few I would use.


Why do you usuallly leave any potentially useful information out of your posts? In this thread, you say there are only a few flats you would use. Most guys would say, I like these X,Y,Z flat paints the best. Same when you post about primers often or other things.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

johnpaint said:


> Why is it that ho's think that if paint is thick it most be the best paint, and as painters our job is to make it not thick so we can get the crap applied.


Because HO want to put it on thick and think it will cover and they will be one and done..


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> Excellent replies. Many of you know i've been around on various forums for a long time and the BEHR sucks campaign seems to be common but I've failed to see a valid thread as to why even when threads go 11 pages. The bottom line is always unanimously BEHR sucks without any explanation.
> 
> I picked BEHR Premium Plus Flat because flats are the most forgiving and typically the easiest to apply to get nice results. I will say, all of the responses on this post have been said about competitive flats too even at prices double what this flat costs and in the same breath there are flats about $10 less contractor price that perform fine.
> 
> I used this product before several times as well as other sheens from BEHR and in my opinion there are far worse options. I didn't find this product to be overly difficult to use and its not a product I personally recommend either but when it all comes down to the wide selection of flats, there are only a few I would use.


First off I don't know any flats that are double the price.. The only thing close would be Aura matte 48$ and theirs no comparison there.. Unless your talking F&B..

Second so which flats does the great JP recommend??? put it out there so all the HO's lurking on this site can run out and get them...


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## painttofish (Aug 28, 2007)

JP and Behr...:no:


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## painttofish (Aug 28, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> Anyone care to explain why BEHR Premium Plus Flat is no good?
> 
> Paint no bueno!
> 
> What I don't get is no one seems to offer up any reasons why Behr sucks.


 Have a nice day.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

DeanV said:


> Why do you usuallly leave any potentially useful information out of your posts? In this thread, you say there are only a few flats you would use. Most guys would say, I like these X,Y,Z flat paints the best. Same when you post about primers often or other things.


Its intentional. Its difficult to suggest a flat because their are few things to set them apart, they all fail at some point in testing, burnish, wipe off etc and because of that I look mainly for flats that the cut and roll matches, the application is easy with good flow and rolls nice with minimal to no spatter and touches up good. Thats not easy to find. I think certain flats do certain things well but rarely do they do everything equally well. I also believe there are flats out there that beg to be thinned and flats are a compromising product with the final question being what do you want to accomplish with the end result.

So all that said... I cant suggest one here because certain criteria needs to follow like, "what do you want to do with it" and then a product comes to mind.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

MAK-Deco said:


> First off I don't know any flats that are double the price.. The only thing close would be Aura matte 48$ and theirs no comparison there.. Unless your talking F&B..
> 
> Second so which flats does the great JP recommend??? put it out there so all the HO's lurking on this site can run out and get them...


MAK being product specific here in comparison to BEHR Premium Flat and Benjamin Moore Aura, there are far more derogatory claims against Aura (on walls) than I ever found specific to Behr Premium Plus Flat. Im not saying I prefer one or the other but when a $50 gallon of paint comes out and its plagued with issues, I cant say that product is a success yet. I've read over and over Aura is the most difficult product to apply from seasoned professionals and most are saying they like the look of it dry.

My whole point is there are so many flat products out there and somehow BEHR is the worse and this simply isnt true regarding Premium Plus Flat, far from it.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> MAK being product specific here in comparison to BEHR Premium Flat and Benjamin Moore Aura, there are far more derogatory claims against Aura (on walls) than I ever found specific to Behr Premium Plus Flat. Im not saying I prefer one or the other but when a $50 gallon of paint comes out and its plagued with issues, I cant say that product is a success yet. I've read over and over Aura is the most difficult product to apply from seasoned professionals and most are saying they like the look of it dry.
> 
> My whole point is there are so many flat products out there and somehow BEHR is the worse and this simply isnt true regarding Premium Plus Flat, far from it.



My comment about Aura was mentioning price you said there are flats out there double the price of Behr?? I am not going to get into the mechanics of Aura there are plenty of threads out there on that.

I don't know of any 48$ paints that are listed as flat.. Aura is a matte so there is no comparison to Behr flat. but its the only thing I can think of thats double the price of Behr.


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

I choose the paints based on the level of quality the company uses when blending their formula.
Behr does not use quality ingredients, and after painting one wall with it I quickly noticed the lack of quality.
Even with the flat.


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## cy hundley (Aug 17, 2008)

I choose to use alot of Behr paint, mostly interior eggshell. I offer it as an option in my proposals. I have never had any problems with it, and have never had a client complain. If a client wants a higher end name or a specific brand they have used before that is fine to.


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

cy hundley said:


> I choose to use alot of Behr paint, mostly interior eggshell. I offer it as an option in my proposals. I have never had any problems with it, and have never had a client complain. If a client wants a higher end name or a specific brand they have used before that is fine to.


It isn't always about finish and appearance it is also about speed and efficiency, if I have to manhandle a paint then I am wasting my time.
If I have to hold the paint's hand to get it to do what I want, I am wasting time.
I could make dog sh1t look good on a wall, but it would take more time than it is worth...
Quality paint sold by reputable dealers is formulated to make the painter's job easier, time=money. Behr is cheap, available, and most of all sold in a non~threatening environment to HO's...i.e. Home Depot.


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## cy hundley (Aug 17, 2008)

WisePainter said:


> It isn't always about finish and appearance it is also about speed and efficiency, if I have to manhandle a paint then I am wasting my time.
> If I have to hold the paint's hand to get it to do what I want, I am wasting time.
> I could make dog sh1t look good on a wall, but it would take more time than it is worth...
> Quality paint sold by reputable dealers is formulated to make the painter's job easier, time=money. Behr is cheap, available, and most of all sold in a non~threatening environment to HO's...i.e. Home Depot.


Point taken Wise, I appreciate the fact that you actually have an educated reason for not liking it. Most here don't. However, I am not experiencing the same problems you are. So i will agree to disagree.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

I don't know that I would say behr interior flat sucks, but thats like saying SW promar 700 doesn't suck. They are purpose built products and their purpose is simple.

I will show you why behr exterior sucks.
This is a 3 year old paint job. Same color on the front and side.
How would you feel if you shelled out several thousand dollars and this is what your largest investment looked like?
I will say it again. Behr sux:yes:


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

cy hundley said:


> I appreciate the fact that you actually have an educated reason for not liking it. Most here don't.


:no: I'll disagree with that. Almost every post in this thread has a valid reason as to why that particular painter thinks Behr sucks.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Maybe the guy's that think Behr is good paint really don't get good prices on better paint, so they feel that it's not that bad. Most painters that buy a lot of paint pay less for better paint so for us to want to go buy from home depoe and use a lesser paint would not be something that we would think about.


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## painttofish (Aug 28, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> Its intentional. Its difficult to suggest a flat because their are few things to set them apart.:blink:
> 
> These are the things that set them apart.
> I look mainly for flats that the cut and roll matches, the application is easy with good flow and rolls nice with minimal to no spatter and touches up good.
> ...


Lets say the criteria is "paint a wall" because that is something "you do with it". The characteristics you mentioned above are what set flat paints apart. Does a product come to mind now? Why the secrets Jack?


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## painttofish (Aug 28, 2007)

Behr sucks because it does not perform those things you mentioned (cover,ease of app,spatter,etc..)very well. Simple. As painters we look for those qualities and since this is a professional painting forum why do we need to describe these properties about Behr? Saying it sucks should be suffice.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

And on top of it, HD, Lowes and other big boxes do not treat the painting contractor any different then the HO's going there for there paint. To me its lack of respect. So your gonna sell me a mediocre product and then tell me I am no different then the average HO?? That is why your image JP fits perfectly in HD you can be there spokesman!

Also Behr actually made good product years and years ago when they were in the mom and pop stores prior to being bought by Masco and then striking the exclusive deal with HD...


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

WisePainter said:


> It isn't always about finish and appearance it is also about speed and efficiency, if I have to manhandle a paint then I am wasting my time.
> If I have to hold the paint's hand to get it to do what I want, I am wasting time.
> I could make dog sh1t look good on a wall, but it would take more time than it is worth...
> Quality paint sold by reputable dealers is formulated to make the painter's job easier, time=money. Behr is cheap, available, and most of all sold in a non~threatening environment to HO's...i.e. Home Depot.


Good post. The time a single gallon of paint can consume from a well planned out day is very important, so is recoat dry time. This paint we are talking about takes twice as long to spread as my fav flat.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Bender said:


> I don't know that I would say behr interior flat sucks, but thats like saying SW promar 700 doesn't suck. They are purpose built products and their purpose is simple.
> 
> I will show you why behr exterior sucks.
> This is a 3 year old paint job. Same color on the front and side.
> ...


Bender, that looks like the siding was painted with a different batch used on the corners but I'll take your word for it. I'm guessing Sherwin Williams Super Paint falls into the same category as Behr Exterior cause it does the same thing in less time.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

painttofish said:


> Lets say the criteria is "paint a wall" because that is something "you do with it". The characteristics you mentioned above are what set flat paints apart. Does a product come to mind now? Why the secrets Jack?


Im not sure you understand. You would have to ask me something like: all things aside, I want a flat I can roll fast then I can give you 4 product names that I think anyone with any experience can roll like crazy. Then if you say I want it to touch up well, I can give you three. Then if you want it to be washable, I can suggest 2, then you tell me you want 1 hour fail-safe recoat time then i'm like


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Uh, well, I understand the mystique of Jack Raulh, and accept that for what it is. But, Aura doesnt even come in flat...


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> Uh, well, I understand the mystique of Jack Raulh, and accept that for what it is. But, Aura doesnt even come in flat...


You guys wear me out. Here I ripped this from Aura's TDS

"Residential or commercial applications where a flat finish with the highest performance characteristics are desired".


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> You guys wear me out. Here I ripped this from Aura's TDS
> 
> "Residential or commercial applications where a flat finish with the highest performance characteristics are desired".


Jack

I know you dont intentionally try to create confusion but engaging a discussion on the relative merits of Behr flat and Aura Matte could not be much less productive. If you are going to pick up that factory sponsorship, you need to focus more on credibility. For instance, the big anticlimactic Purdy vs. Wooster showdown you were promoting a while ago was heading in a more believable direction. You are sharp, but stick with what you know!


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> Jack
> 
> I know you dont intentionally try to create confusion but engaging a discussion on the relative merits of Behr flat and Aura Matte could not be much less productive. If you are going to pick up that factory sponsorship, you need to focus more on credibility. For instance, the big anticlimactic Purdy vs. Wooster showdown you were promoting a while ago was heading in a more believable direction. You are sharp, but stick with what you know!


I made my point on flat paints, truth is they all have their shortcomings but it doesn't make a product necessarily suck. Sorry about the brush showdown, what happened was the Wooster Alpha stole the thunder and I didn't have much notice when I first learned about it and it showed up at my door... My bad. I did update the post though some time ago. Those two brushes are pretty much neck-n-neck. If you like firmer brushes I say use the Wooster Easyflo over the Clearcut. I might need to cut back my forum time.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

I mentioned you a couple of months ago to my Wooster contact, she went to your blog and was all like "ehh". I will try again. Caution, though, if you appear to be chasing all the rabbits you will end up with none. This little innuendo plug for HD is probably alienating legit manufacturers as we speak. You should know this all already.


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## painttofish (Aug 28, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> Im not sure you understand. You would have to ask me something like: all things aside, I want a flat I can roll fast then I can give you 4 product names that I think anyone with any experience can roll like crazy. Then if you say I want it to touch up well, I can give you three. Then if you want it to be washable, I can suggest 2, then you tell me you want 1 hour fail-safe recoat time then i'm like


I'll bet you could. your a real wealth of info Jack.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> I mentioned you a couple of months ago to my Wooster contact, she went to your blog and was all like "ehh". I will try again. Caution, though, if you appear to be chasing all the rabbits you will end up with none. This little innuendo plug for HD is probably alienating legit manufacturers as we speak. You should know this all already.


Chasing rabbits? My thing is simple Scott, I post my real experiences on a blog not ones I found elsewhere. It's shared with whoever wants to read it and I hope its clear I am not promoting any single company because I am not. Wooster is well informed of my blog and my posts relating to their product as is Purdy. I have a lot of good and bad to say about various product or companies and I post it there or here either hoping it helps others or helps improve product in the future so it benefits you and me. Im not plugging HD, I don't use BEHR paint.


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## tsunamicontract (May 3, 2008)

I actually just talked to a home owner who painted a room with behr. They were grumbling about how long it took and how many coats. The room had a chair rail (they painted brown) below rail medium green and off white (greenish) above rail. It took two coats on the green (not unreasonable) and 4 coats of the off white. This was over primer. Ended up looking really nice, but 4 coats to get an off white? No thanks. I have used a lot of Behr. I can make it look great. But i would just assume not to have to. I also can't stand the smell, its like instant headaches. Their flat is like an egshell too. I have also had several clients not be happy with how easily it burnishes and stains from water. Too bad they speced the paint (this was before i stopped letting them and took control of my business)


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Wow, look how's back. Havnt seen you for a while.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

JP, I truly apreciate your input. The discusions are what forums should be all about. Not just agreeing with everyone's opinion so you can be one of the boy's
I like topics that might actually make you have to think about your opinion.
On the Behr flat I could care less, I can't remenber the last time I had to use it but I don't think I would ever pay that much for it, I could get Super Paint for less. My only gripe is dealing with the people at the counter. or taking a number to order your paint then going and standing in line to pay for it. That 1 gallon of paint is now costing about $70


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> I might need to cut back my forum time.


You can't do that. Then we all would become hooked on your blog, all the painttalk traffic would end up jp blogspot and painttalk would see a devastating decline. Wait a minute, you should try that as a simple supply and demand exercise. If you lower the supply of your wisdom here, the demand would result in huge traffic at your blog. You are silly to even be here.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

I think this is all talk about nothing, the paint is sub par and some people people say white and some say black jusSome people just like to argue


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

What you got herr is a modern day, good old cat fight.


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> You can't do that. Then we all would become hooked on your blog, all the painttalk traffic would end up jp blogspot and painttalk would see a devastating decline. Wait a minute, you should try that as a simple supply and demand exercise. If you lower the supply of your wisdom here, the demand would result in huge traffic at your blog. You are silly to even be here.



My understanding of the thread was to challenge people as to exactly why they don't like Behr. My interpretation was that JP's point was to shake some dust off everyone's paradigms.

Some people might not have even touched Behr in 10 years. Some people may have never even tried simply for no other reason than they had always been told not to.

Is that a good reason to base a strategy on? Because "everyone says so"?

To me, that is a stupid strategy, not a smart one.

I didn't interpret JP's thread to mean that he thought Behr was the best paint.

JP, perhaps you could tell us what IS the best flat in yor opinion and why.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

mr jack says, "and in my opinion there are far worse options".

Name just one of them for us,please?


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

aaron61 said:


> JP, I truly apreciate your input. The discusions are what forums should be all about. Not just agreeing with everyone's opinion so you can be one of the boy's
> I like topics that might actually make you have to think about your opinion.
> On the Behr flat I could care less, I can't remenber the last time I had to use it but I don't think I would ever pay that much for it, I could get Super Paint for less. My only gripe is dealing with the people at the counter. or taking a number to order your paint then going and standing in line to pay for it. That 1 gallon of paint is now costing about $70


Very good point. No doubt customer service has been an issue at box stores but in the same breath I've seen my share of very poor CS at Paint Stores too. I think if you work at a PS, your job should be to know your competitions product and know it well. How can anyone sell anything not knowing what the full capabilities of a product are. If I ask a question at Home Depot I honestly do not expect an answer but when I ask questions at a regular PS, I want all the details of the product in question and I want to know how that product can benefit me over my current product.

Last time I was in HD for a gallon of tinted Zinsser, I had to show the girl how to do it. She told me she couldn't do it.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Last Craftsman said:


> My understanding of the thread was to challenge people as to exactly why they don't like Behr. My interpretation was that JP's point was to shake some dust off everyone's paradigms.
> 
> Some people might not have even touched Behr in 10 years. Some people may have never even tried simply for no other reason than they had always been told not to.
> 
> ...


LC, like I was saying earlier here, it depends on criteria. There is no best flat IMO. There are optional compromising flats that do certain things well and those products are determined by the customer requirements and my own. There really is no single best flat that I'm aware of.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

I think if you're a pro, you should be able to apply any paint with decent results. Granted, Behr may not be our choice of paint but there's worse stuff out there. I cant see where Jack advocated its use in any of his posts in this thread. And Last Craftsman and Aaron had some valid points. I may not agree with all the threads in this forum, but if they make me pause and think, its not a bad thing.

I dont agree with everything Jack says, and I dont care to be a production machine at this point in my career, but I do find his posts interesting. I'm sure some here may utilize his techniques and be quite satisfied. Sometimes he can come off as seeming self-serving, but I think we can all be guilty of that at times. What works for him, or any of the other guys, may not work for me.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Wolfgang said:


> What works for him, or any of the other guys, may not work for me.


Wolfgang, I always like to hear the disagreements, may be worth discussion as I tend to leave some things out intentionally. That reminds me. I often wonder if someone tries something I post here or the blog that may be new to them or new in a way of doing something slightly different (tweaking a step or two) — what their experience was.

I will generally post details if there is a trick to doing something I post. I don't think I post anything the average pro couldn't replicate. 

Just a heads up for anyone reading... if you read and try something and cant come to the same end result, email me and I'll try to help achieve the same result. I've dealt with similar stuff in the past locally and usually some minor oversight was the cause.


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

Wolfgang said:


> I think if you're a pro, you should be able to apply any paint with decent results.


True, and I have already made the claim that I can make dog poo on a wall look amazing.
Anyone got a dog?


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## cy hundley (Aug 17, 2008)

ProWallGuy said:


> :no: I'll disagree with that. Almost every post in this thread has a valid reason as to why that particular painter thinks Behr sucks.


I stand corrected, after re-reading all posts prior to yours, and after, in fact many have given a reason for disliking.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

My perception of Jack and this IMO... That his way is the best way to achieve optimal painting results and there is no other way... and us "other contractors" are doing it "wrong"

Like I said this is my perception of the guy.. I am not saying that be an Azz just how I take him and his posts.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

My experiences with why Behr sucks are....their semigloss white trim paint is unbrushable - and doesn't hide very well.

The eggshell wallpaint I rolled on top of 'gripper' primer settled down without stipple - even managed a few runs - which is something I have never done. Their interior latex enamel undercoater doesn't penetrate whatsoever into veneer plaster - but it actually did perform nicely on bare pine wood window frames, with one coat of ultra giving a good finish.

and their ceiling paint goes on like is watery satin paint - and covers 300 sq.ft. at best per can on a flat ceiling. I expect alot more.


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## JAYJAY (Sep 13, 2008)

oops


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## DK Remodeling (Mar 22, 2013)

chrisn said:


> mr jack says, "and in my opinion there are far worse options".
> 
> Name just one of them for us,please?


Color Place from Walmart.


----------



## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

DK Remodeling said:


> Color Place from Walmart.


 
and this thread is how many years old?


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## cdaniels (Oct 20, 2012)

I've never used Behr so I don't know.I have used quite a bit of other box store paints (homeowner provided) and had no issues with the mid to high end paint.Not my first choice but I make the homeowner happy and really not bad stuff.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Bumping this thread is an immediate ban.

lol


----------



## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

Workaholic said:


> Bumping this thread is an immediate ban.
> 
> lol


pretty much unBherable aint it ?


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Scotiadawg said:


> pretty much unBherable aint it ?


Mudbone impostor?


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

You say that like it's a bad thing.

no wait... maybe it is...


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Workaholic said:


> Mudbone impostor?


Nah - just a wanna be. But who doesn't?


----------



## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

RH said:


> Nah - just a wanna be. But who doesn't?


aint nobody can fill them shoes !:no: just figured I'd practise til get the ban hammer or a slap up side the head.:thumbup:


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

*Top reasons painters have noted as to "Why Behr Paint Sucks"?*
Does not cover as good as other paint
Too thick never spread very well
Sux to move
Was not as forgiving for quickly recoating as the paint I usually use
I had issue with the roller pulling off the cuts
Using normal techniques tends to sag on cuts and does not like to be thinned
I do not think it is a high quality product and I prefer to use BM and SW
It's kind of watery. It really spatters. It doesn't cover.
　

*The importaint quality's and factors painters have no regard for;*
UV testing results, will fade?
Does it resists the growth of mold & mildew?
Does it weather?
Is it moisture resistant?
Does it withstands abrasion?
Does it resist stains?
*Price*
The OP asked painters to compare a specific product, at a specific price, which was Behr Premium Plus Flat @ $24.00 per gallon, to BM or SW @ $24.00 per gallon and the painters in the forum failed to do so.

*Bottom Line*
I am not convinced that Behr @ $24.00 per gallon sucks compared to BM or SW @ $24.00 per gallon.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

*Bottom Line*
I am not convinced that Behr @ $24.00 per gallon sucks compared to BM or SW @ $24.00 per gallon.[/QUOTE]

Buy a gal of each and have a go:whistling2:


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

I quit caring in 2009 when this thread started


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## mattvpaint (Jan 30, 2013)

I quite caring the day I used it lol


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## Red Truck (Feb 10, 2013)

#9- It is mixed by Home Depot employees...good luck with multiple batches :thumbsup: Just sayin...luck of the draw in my experience 



MuraCoat said:


> *Top reasons painters have noted as to "Why Behr Paint Sucks"?*
> Does not cover as good as other paint
> Too thick never spread very well
> Sux to move
> ...


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

mattvpaint said:


> I quite caring the day I used it lol


I care about behr!:yes: You guys have seem to have lost your behrings.


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

NCPaint1 said:


> I quit caring in 2009 when this thread started


At least the guy that resurrected this old thread didn't create a NEW "Behr sucks thread". I mean, the (3 or 4) ProMar 200 threads, all in the same week, was a little redundant. :blink:


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

Red Truck said:


> #9- It is mixed by Home Depot employees...good luck with multiple batches :thumbsup: Just sayin...luck of the draw in my experience


This is a thread concerning a product which is Behr paints. Home Depot and its emloyees, are another matter in itself. 

I don't have problems with HD or its employees. If I go there, I tell them what I want. I have been painting long enought, that I don't need a paint stores advice. That also includes BM or SW too...


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## sully9er (Jan 24, 2011)

MuraCoat said:


> This is a thread concerning a product which is Behr paints. Home Depot and its emloyees, are another matter in itself.
> 
> I don't have problems with HD or its employees. If I go there, I tell them what I want. I have been painting long enought, that I don't need a paint stores advice. That also includes BM or SW too...


The worst is when you try to buy a 5'er of primer at a store and they ask if you wanted it tinted in a shade similar to the 1 gallon of wall paint you are buying. Obviously if im buying 5 gallons of primer and 1 gallon of paint, im not planning on using all 5 gallons before i use the 1 gallon of paint.


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## TERRY365PAINTER (Jul 26, 2009)

I use Behr ultra , for dark colors . Just sprayed some doors with Behr gloss . Came out real nice . I won't use Behr flat it seems to have a sheen to it. Now kilz pro 110 flat that is a hard flat to beat . IMO . 
I just did a front door ,with aura bright red came out real nice too. 
Just tried the pro mar zero voc 200 
I like that too. It depends on the job. 
I have never had a problem with the paint yeah 
I have had it sag on the cut! But I think that was more user error than paint . For coverage on knock down . Behr is hard to beat . Again 
IMO . 
I really like jack p posts and knowledge . 
I have change the way I paint thanks to him .
Plus didn't he mention the Picasso brush for the first time . Come on ! That brush just rocks . 

Behr hug . Mudbone


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Forget Behr, just use Promar 200 zero. Case closed.:thumbsup:


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

TJ Paint said:


> Forget Behr, just use Promar 200 zero. Case closed.:thumbsup:


I don't know what your criteria is for a better paint? I used Behr and ProMar 200 on the same job, over the same primer, on the same day (these are vital factors), and Promar 200 needed (2) coats and Behr only needed (1) coat of paint for 100% coverage. So I believe you don't know what you are talking about Sir... Sorry if I am being a B-Hole! 

Also, retail price for Behr is around $25 and ProMar is around $33. (yes, I know you get a better price than $33 due to you being a painting contractor... Lets compare retail to retail - k?


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

sully9er said:


> The worst is when you try to buy a 5'er of primer at a store and they ask if you wanted it tinted in a shade similar to the 1 gallon of wall paint you are buying. Obviously if im buying 5 gallons of primer and 1 gallon of paint, im not planning on using all 5 gallons before i use the 1 gallon of paint.


What does that have to do with product quality?


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

MuraCoat said:


> I don't know what your _criteria is for a better paint?_ I used Behr and ProMar 200 on the same job, over the same primer, on the same day (these are vital factors), and Promar 200 needed (2) coats and Behr only needed (1) coat of paint for 100% coverage. So I believe you don't know what you are talking about Sir... Sorry if I am being a B-Hole!
> 
> Also, retail price for Behr is around $25 and ProMar is around $33. (yes, I know you get a better price than $33 due to you being a painting contractor... Lets compare retail to retail - k?


1) Criteria for a better paint? 
- I don't need to go into a HD to get it

I put two coats of paint on for my jobs. 

Glad it worked out for you.

2) I'm not asking you to believe me. But I believe you. 

3) You didn't hurt my feelings. (I could really care less)

4) Rock on


----------



## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

I BEHRly recognized this thread after so many years...good times!


----------



## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

MuraCoat said:


> I don't know what your criteria is for a better paint? I used Behr and ProMar 200 on the same job, over the same primer, on the same day (these are vital factors), and Promar 200 needed (2) coats and Behr only needed (1) coat of paint for 100% coverage. So I believe you don't know what you are talking about Sir... Sorry if I am being a B-Hole!
> 
> Also, retail price for Behr is around $25 and ProMar is around $33. (yes, I know you get a better price than $33 due to you being a painting contractor... Lets compare retail to retail - k?


 
please define 100% coverage for 1 coat of ANY paint


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

It seems (to me) that a lot of people that like Behr, are kinda touchy about it.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Any ideas on why bher always does so good in lab tests and consumer reports? The last overall quality study I saw had bher second on the list, right below aura. The study only dealt with coverage and durability, nothing about application properties.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

TJ Paint said:


> Forget Behr, just use Promar 200 zero. Case closed.:thumbsup:


 Promar 200 zero results!:whistling2:


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

joshmays1976 said:


> Any ideas on why bher always does so good in lab tests and consumer reports? The last overall quality study I saw had bher second on the list, right below aura. The study only dealt with coverage and durability, nothing about application properties.


Ah yes, the old "but it's in consumer reports" shtick.

Call me up when "professional contractor reports" lists BEHR as the top in materials...
Better yet, how many pros are standing around the paint island in a huge box store vs. "consumers"

a.k.a. homeowners.


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## DK Remodeling (Mar 22, 2013)

joshmays1976 said:


> Any ideas on why bher always does so good in lab tests and consumer reports? The last overall quality study I saw had bher second on the list, right below aura. The study only dealt with coverage and durability, nothing about application properties.


I was told one of the chemist that develop BM Aura went to work for BEHR that's why Behr Ultra is so close on coverage to Aura.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

Consumer Report testing techniques have been criticized by many by not using the criteria that actual manufacturers and contractors use. Their testing for coverage and durability are not what the PDCA uses either, so their test is basically crap. 

CR is testing for how a DIY HO uses paint. That is not how I paint.


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

kdpaint said:


> Consumer Report testing techniques have been criticized by many by not using the criteria that actual manufacturers and contractors use. Their testing for coverage and durability are not what the PDCA uses either, so their test is basically crap.
> 
> CR is testing for how a DIY HO uses paint. That is not how I paint.


Superb response.


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## sully9er (Jan 24, 2011)

Had drinks with our SW rep and consumer reports came up. Apparently why SW is always rated poorly is because cr's top chemist used to work for SW. But he didn't get a promotion so he holds a grudge against them. 

Is that really what SW is telling their reps?


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

WisePainter said:


> Ah yes, the old "but it's in consumer reports" shtick.
> 
> Call me up when "professional contractor reports" lists BEHR as the top in materials...
> Better yet, how many pros are standing around the paint island in a huge box store vs. "consumers"
> ...


I have not used it enough to have a personal opinion as to its quality. The few times I did I got the runny cut line effect, and it seemed
Different somehow.. The study I was talking about is posted at the front counter at my BM dealer. Not sure who did the study, it just seems odd that it gets such high reviews. The study I referred to was Lab testing so I don't think HO vs pro is an issue


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

As with any tests, Consumer Reports included, the results are based on what specific tests they run on the paint. CR uses tests that are geared towards non professional paint application. If you give a can of Aura to Joe HO and tell him to cut and roll a room, or a can of Advance for some trim (substitute Emerald and Proclassic for you SW guys) it may not work out so well, that's why supposed "workability" is rated lower than Behr and some other paints. The categories chosen are not ones I care about.

Pick 3 different tests from different companies and you will have 3 different top 10 paints. Hell, didn't CR list Dutchboy's exterior paint as scoring well above P&L Manor Hall and Accolade, and a few SW and BM paints as well....


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

chrisn said:


> please define 100% coverage for 1 coat of ANY paint


That is irrelevant to my test on both products. Both ProMar 200 and Behr ceiling paint were applied exactly the same way, with the same type of roller, over the same primer, in the same house, on the same day. 

ProMor 200 - (1) coat applied, desperately needed and received a second application. 

Behr ceiling paint - looked excellent and completed with only (1) application.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

I got America's Best Ceiling Paint to cover in one on a ceiling at a friend's house a while back. I don't use it on real jobs.

Someone in another thread was questioning what really makes a ceiling paint different from regular flat paint. I wonder if the coverage/hide is different due to shooting a lil' black into "ceiling" paint, or is ceiling paint is a deader flat.....discuss, starting....NOW.


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

kdpaint said:


> I got America's Best Ceiling Paint to cover in one on a ceiling at a friend's house a while back. I don't use it on real jobs.
> 
> *Someone in another thread was questioning what really makes a ceiling paint different from regular flat paint.* I wonder if the coverage/hide is different due to shooting a lil' black into "ceiling" paint, or is ceiling paint is a deader flat.....discuss, starting....NOW.


Ceiling paints are designed to minimize glare.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

Yeah, that part I have clear. 

What specifically makes a ceiling paint different than flat paint. I used BM Ultra flat stock white for some ceilings, and it was great. I have used some other paints labeled "ceiling." Some were very good, some not so...is it just labeling, or is there an additive.....obviously the cheaper the paint, the more likely black is in there for hiding.

My question might be a little technical for painters....NC or NEPS or someone who knows....chime on in there fellas.....


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## David's Painting (Nov 7, 2012)

kdpaint said:


> Yeah, that part I have clear.
> 
> What specifically makes a ceiling paint different than flat paint. I used BM Ultra flat stock white for some ceilings, and it was great. I have used some other paints labeled "ceiling." Some were very good, some not so...is it just labeling, or is there an additive.....obviously the cheaper the paint, the more likely black is in there for hiding.
> 
> My question might be a little technical for painters....NC or NEPS or someone who knows....chime on in there fellas.....


Technical? It's ceiling paint. Ill paint the ceiling in black gloss. It's just painting


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

Welllllll, lets just say I'm a little technical, and like to know stuff.:thumbup: Plus this thread was getting really old. Fact.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Ceiling paints are typically dead flat. No sheen. Now how various manufacturers do their ratings and labelings is the gray area. They're not all the same, and not created equally.

Like chocolate chip cookies, there are good ones out there and crap ones. Some make better clay pigeons than cookies. Some have manufactured "chocolate chips" that barely resemble the real thing, don't melt, and leave a coating in your mouth.....yet they dare still call it a chocolate chip cookie. Same thing with ceiling paints yeah?


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

kdpaint said:


> Yeah, that part I have clear.
> 
> What specifically makes a ceiling paint different than flat paint. I used BM Ultra flat stock white for some ceilings, and it was great. I have used some other paints labeled "ceiling." Some were very good, some not so...is it just labeling, or is there an additive.....obviously the cheaper the paint, the more likely black is in there for hiding.
> 
> My question might be a little technical for painters....NC or NEPS or someone who knows....chime on in there fellas.....


I answered this question on post #100...

*Ceiling paints are designed to minimize glare.*

I have also found that ceiling paints have a gray tint to them. Standard whites seem to be a brighter white...


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

MuraCoat said:


> I answered this question on post #100...
> 
> Ceiling paints are designed to minimize glare.
> 
> I have also found that ceiling paints have a gray tint to them. Standard whites seem to be a brighter white...


Wow, you really read that to us! That really makes me feel like I'm right at the home center. Having someone read a label to me and act as if they've somehow provided an answer.


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

NCPaint1 said:


> Wow, you really read that to us! That really makes me feel like I'm right at the home center. Having someone read a label to me and act as if they've somehow provided an answer.


Incorrect. 25 years ago, I asked a mom & pop paint store owner this same question at hand, and the answer he gave me was -- "If reduces glare"...

The store is still in business and I believe he is 70 y/o by now...


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

MuraCoat said:


> Incorrect. 25 years ago, I asked a mom & pop paint store owner this same question at hand, and the answer he gave me was -- "If reduces glare"...
> 
> The store is still in business and I believe he is 70 y/o by now...


Yeah, but I'm one of those annoying guys that wants to know what tint, chemical,or process is used to differentiate between products.....

To say something "reduces glare" is one of the most obvious things one could say about a flat paint. That's like saying high gloss is shiny.
Thanks for the all caps update....yikes.


----------



## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

kdpaint said:


> Yeah, but I'm one of those annoying guys that wants to know what tint, chemical,or process is used to differentiate between products.....
> 
> To say something "reduces glare" is one of the most obvious things one could say about a flat paint. That's like saying high gloss is shiny.
> Thanks for the all caps update....yikes.


All caps? you mean bold font? 

well, ceiling whites do a better job at reducing glare than general flat paints. Glare, reflection and shine are (3) different words. 

Maybe you should be addressing your question to a chemist?


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

After being on this forum for a while, I have read some of the most in depth and knowledgeable questions and answers from PT members. No joke, there are members who actually are chemists on this forum, and at least 2 NACE inspectors, paint store owners, paint reps and other sharp guys and gals...

Between them and all of the other members who have probably forgotten more than most of us know about coatings and their application, I think most questions posed on this forum get a great answer.


----------



## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

kdpaint said:


> After being on this forum for a while, I have read some of the most in depth and knowledgeable questions and answers from PT members. No joke, there are members who actually are chemists on this forum, and at least 2 NACE inspectors, paint store owners, paint reps and other sharp guys and gals...
> 
> Between them and all of the other members who have probably forgotten more than most of us know about coatings and their application, I think most questions posed on this forum get a great answer.


Well maybe *Vermontpainter*, Neps or NCpaints can give you that chemical analysis.


Here are a few question for you:
Why does high gloss paint shine more than semi-gloss?
Other than the price, what is the difference between expensive paints and cheap paints?
Why are some paints (of the same sheen) more durable than others?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

MuraCoat said:


> Well maybe *Vermontpainter*, Neps or NCpaints can give you that chemical analysis.
> 
> 
> Here are a few question for you:
> ...


Probably not, *MuraCoat*. At the forum's request, I keep my posts brief.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

Sorry Scott, I did have you in mind (and Ken, TJ, Paul,Prowall, Dean, Sean and all the other...you know who you are) but it looks like someone else has you in their thoughts....tee hee.:thumbsup:


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

kdpaint said:


> Sorry Scott, I did have you in mind (and Ken, TJ, Paul,Prowall, Dean, Sean and all the other...you know who you are) but it looks like someone else has you in their thoughts....tee hee.:thumbsup:


I'm infectious


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

MuraCoat said:


> Well maybe Vermontpainter, Neps or NCpaints can give you that chemical analysis.


Gonna lump me in with those 2? They've both forgotten more than I know.


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## DK Remodeling (Mar 22, 2013)

MuraCoat said:


> I have also found that ceiling paints have a gray tint to them. Standard whites seem to be a brighter white...


If you ever need a ceiling paint on a bright white SW Eminence is the way to go. I tested 3 ceiling paints and with Eminence you don't have the gray tone.


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

vermontpainter said:


> Probably not, *MuraCoat*. At the forum's request, I keep my posts brief.


Here is a simple one for you...

why does "satin gloss" urethane have less shine than "high gloss" urethane?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

NCPaint1 said:


> Gonna lump me I'm with those 2?


Its bad company. Even neps and I don't want to be in that grouping.


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

DK Remodeling said:


> If you ever need a ceiling paint on a bright
> white SW Eminence is the way to go. I tested 3 ceiling paints and with Eminence
> you don't have the gray tone.


It's a very shuttle grey tint... You would have to flick some ceiling paint 
into the white wall paint to notice the difference.


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

kdpaint said:


> After being on this forum for a while, I have read some of the most in depth and knowledgeable questions and answers from PT members. No joke, there are members who actually are chemists on this forum, and at least 2 NACE inspectors, paint store owners, paint reps and other sharp guys and gals...
> 
> Between them and all of the other members who have probably forgotten more than most of us know about coatings and their application, *I think most questions posed on this forum get a great answer.*


 
Ceiling paint is specifically manufactured to dry faster and splash less than wall paint, while easily hiding defects and covering grimy edges. Since it is designed to dry faster, ceiling paint tends to be easier to work with when painting overhead. On the other hand, wall-paint is manufactured to be more durable, wipe better and burnish less, and is therefore just as suitable for ceilings as ceiling paint.

Ceiling paints are purposely created not to reflect any light but to scatter it while hiding imperfections. Their flat sheen is specifically designed not to reflect glares from light coming through windows or doors. Moreover, thanks to this finish, ceiling paints hide many defects and minimize roller marks.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

MuraCoat said:


> while easily hiding defects and covering grimy edges. Since it is designed to dry faster,
> 
> 
> Ceiling paints are purposely created not to reflect any light but to scatter it while hiding imperfections. Their flat sheen is specifically designed not to reflect glares from light coming through windows or doors. Moreover, thanks to this finish, ceiling paints hide many defects and minimize roller marks.


All this... Yes, these are the attributes of a flat paint. 
Some do a better job than others. 

Consequentially, this is in the realm of Goniophotometry.


----------



## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

DK Remodeling said:


> If you ever need a ceiling paint on a bright white SW Eminence is the way to go. I tested 3 ceiling paints and with Eminence you don't have the gray tone.


 
3 coats?


----------



## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

TJ Paint said:


> All this... Yes, these are the attributes of a flat paint.
> Some do a better job than others.
> 
> Consequentially, this is in the realm of Goniophotometry.


 
wow!:blink:


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

TJ Paint said:


> All this... Yes, these are the attributes of a flat paint.
> Some do a better job than others.
> 
> Consequentially, this is in the realm of Goniophotometry.


 TJ, your vocabulary is giving me a headache. Can you give us the definition of that word please? this is a painters forum, not a forum of Medical Science! bwahahahaha


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## AZ Painting (Mar 19, 2013)

We don't use Behr paint, unless then home owner has already purchase the product.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

chrisn said:


> 3 coats?


 :yes::thumbsup:


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

MuraCoat said:


> TJ, your vocabulary is giving me a headache. Can you give us the *definition* of that word please? this is a painters forum, not a forum of Medical Science! bwahahahaha


Goniophotometry:

is the technique of measuring the angular distribution of light, possibly wavelength-dependent, scattered from a surface. Goniophotometry is used to evaluate the gloss of paints and other surface finishes.


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## modernfinish (Mar 20, 2013)

Man y'all still talking about some overpriced sucky flat paint??.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

modernfinish said:


> Man y'all still talking about some overpriced sucky flat paint??.


 Its stucky not sucky!


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## Slopmeyer (Aug 2, 2009)

I am man enough to say I have used tons of the Behr Ultra with no real problems. Yes years ago I had trouble with the Behr and thought it was awful, but after being forced to try it again years later I was quite impressed with the results. Covered great,no sags,dried fast and looked great when dry and I am a very picky person when it comes to painting. 
I tried SW pro zero satin in a yellow on primed paneling and it was so watery it would have been at least a four coater. I ran and got the color in Behr and Two coats later it was done.


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

941owassard said:


> I am man enough to say I have used tons of the Behr Ultra with no real problems. Yes years ago I had trouble with the Behr and thought it was awful, but after being forced to try it again years later I was quite impressed with the results. Covered great,no sags,dried fast and looked great when dry and I am a very picky person when it comes to painting.
> I tried SW pro zero satin in a yellow on primed paneling and it was so watery it would have been at least a four coater. I ran and got the color in Behr and Two coats later it was done.


 I agree with you 100 percent. most of the painters in this forum that are bitch'n about behr have not tried it.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

MuraCoat said:


> I agree with you 100 percent. most of the painters in this forum that are bitch'n about behr have not tried it.


Touche


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

MuraCoat said:


> I agree with you 100 percent. most of the painters in this forum that are bitch'n about behr have not tried it.


I've tried it, both ext and int. I've also repainted over it, looking at the finish, I thought to myself "holy crap, that's crap".

I'm not tripping though. I don't really have a dog in the fight. I just get annoyed from the evangelizing posts from guys after awhile. 

It's like a Jehovah Witness knocking on the door. I don't hate the people, I just don't want to talk to them about the stuff they want to talk about.


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## GreenGuy (Feb 14, 2013)

I can't believe no one has mentioned this yet: Behr sucks because of the terrible hangovers! Sure you finish your first glass (or two...) and you think 'Man this is delicious! I can finish this gallon in no time!' Then the next thing you know you're waking up in some strange motel room with an empty 5 and a bunch of people you've never met before. Your head is pounding, your underwear is half-off, and you've got a flat ring all the way around your mouth. And you flashback to some maniac trying to drink from the tinting hole in the 5's lid! No thanks! Give me that smooth drinking ProMAr any day.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

And as an afterthought, this too must be told: Some people have taken pure bull**** and turned it into gold.” 
― Neil Young


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

chrisn said:


> And as an afterthought, this too must be told: Some people have taken pure bull**** and turned it into gold.”
> ― Neil Young


 Have also taken pure behr and turned it into profit.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

mudbone said:


> Have also taken pure behr and turned it into profit.


So true Mudbone, so true.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

TJ Paint said:


> I've tried it, both ext and int. I've also repainted over it, looking at the finish, I thought to myself "holy crap, that's crap".
> 
> I'm not tripping though. I don't really have a dog in the fight. I just get annoyed from the evangelizing posts from guys after awhile.
> 
> It's like a Jehovah Witness knocking on the door. I don't hate the people, I just don't want to talk to them about the stuff they want to talk about.


 Behr Witness!:whistling2:


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

TJ Paint said:


> I've tried it, both ext and int. I've also repainted over it, looking at the finish, I thought to myself "holy crap, that's crap".
> 
> I'm not tripping though. I don't really have a dog in the fight. I just get annoyed from the evangelizing posts from guys after awhile.
> 
> It's like a Jehovah Witness knocking on the door. I don't hate the people, I just don't want to talk to them about the stuff they want to talk about.


This is no lie... I used Behr on a customers bedroom ceiling today. The house was bought as a fixer-upper, so you know the place looked like crap to begin with... (1) coat Behr on the ceiling and tools were being cleaned and put away... And no lumps, bumps or clumps = no straining...

And here is the big plus. the customer was smiling!


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Very nice.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Likewise. Using Behr premium plus on a job which had deep red walls.Applied stainblock primer followed up with 1 coat of Behr and it covered solid no bleedthrough at all.Was totally amazed as well as the customer.Oh the beauty of the Behr!:yes:


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Behr actually hugs your walls!:whistling2:


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

TJ Paint said:


> I've tried it, both ext and int. I've also repainted over it, looking at the finish, I thought to myself "holy crap, that's crap".
> 
> I'm not tripping though. I don't really have a dog in the fight. I just get annoyed from the evangelizing posts from guys after awhile.
> 
> It's like a Jehovah Witness knocking on the door. I don't hate the people, I just don't want to talk to them about the stuff they want to talk about.


TJ
That's at least two posts today you've said you're not tripping, unless I'm tripping and I read the same one twice! You must be tripping! ;-)


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Damon T said:


> TJ
> That's at least two posts today you've said you're not tripping, unless I'm tripping and I read the same one twice! You must be tripping! ;-)


You're not tripping.

Yeah, I got a buddy and we got an inside joke that I had in my head while posting. It's cool you caught that. I can't really go into it and explain the inside joke. You probably had to be there


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

TJ Paint said:


> You're not tripping.
> 
> Yeah, I got a buddy and we got an inside joke that I had in my head while posting. It's cool you caught that. I can't really go into it and explain the inside joke. You probably had to be there


If you were tripping hard enough I was there!

* author's note: I in no way endorse said practice of tripping. Especially not tripping down stairs. I was merely trying to make a funny trippy comment. This being a family friendly forum one needs to be careful about such things. I have already reported this post to the mods. ;-)


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Damon T said:


> If you were tripping hard enough I was there!


 Tripping is bad for the mind, especially if you are older than ,say, 18


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

chrisn said:


> Tripping is bad for the mind, especially if you are older than ,say, 18


Absolutely! I don't recommend it to anyone. Especially not if you're 18!


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## PhilNelsonLS (Apr 11, 2013)

Not much experience using Behr products but if you can find a dealer that sells Benjamin Moore Ultra Spec 500 for interiors it only cost about $23 per gallon for the flat and it covers great and touches up very well. It is tinted with Gennex colorant which is a water based no VOC colorant that gives the paint scubbability and color retention. I get mine from Professional Paint and Coatings.


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## modernfinish (Mar 20, 2013)

PhilNelsonLS said:


> Not much experience using Behr products but if you can find a dealer that sells Benjamin Moore Ultra Spec 500 for interiors it only cost about $23 per gallon for the flat and it covers great and touches up very well. It is tinted with Gennex colorant which is a water based no VOC colorant that gives the paint scubbability and color retention. I get mine from Professional Paint and Coatings.


$23 for flat is a price I will never pay bro. Bring back the Volatile organic compounds ... lol it wasn't broke .


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Damon T said:


> If you were tripping hard enough I was there!
> 
> * author's note: I in no way endorse said practice of tripping. Especially not tripping down stairs. I was merely trying to make a funny trippy comment. This being a family friendly forum one needs to be careful about such things. I have already reported this post to the mods. ;-)


Sounds like you could be trippin.


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## Craftworks (Apr 2, 2013)

For me coverage & sag - Behr say they fixed it . but what i hated was you use it and it looks nice then you take a casual look like 15 min & it's like what the heck sags and other areas are dry what a pain to fix . Most all paints are really ok but all have there own stile needed to use them. Behr has never fit my temperament but many a customer has proudly said I have behr with a big smile and pride & I say to myself crap wile i smile also .


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Craftworks said:


> For me coverage & sag - Behr say they fixed it . but what i hated was you use it and it looks nice then you take a casual look like 15 min & it's like what the heck sags and other areas are dry what a pain to fix . Most all paints are really ok but all have there own stile needed to use them. Behr has never fit my temperament but many a customer has proudly said I have behr with a big smile and pride & I say to myself crap wile i smile also .


 If it is sagging on you thats called running behr!:whistling2:


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

Craftworks said:


> For me coverage & sag - Behr say they fixed it . but what i hated was you use it and it looks *nice then you take a casual look like 15 min & it's like what the heck sags* and other areas are dry what a pain to fix . Most all paints are really ok but all have there own stile needed to use them. Behr has never fit my temperament but many a customer has proudly said I have behr with a big smile and pride & I say to myself crap wile i smile also .


The *temperature* in a room has a lot to do with *sagging paint*. 
If you paint an interior at 62 degrees, you are asking for *sags*...

Don't blame it on the Behr.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

MuraCoat said:


> The *temperature* in a room has a lot to do with *sagging paint*.
> If you paint an interior at 62 degrees, you are asking for *sags*...
> 
> Don't blame it on the Behr.[/QUOTE]
> ...


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

chrisn said:


> MuraCoat said:
> 
> 
> > The *temperature* in a room has a lot to do with *sagging paint*.
> ...


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

chrisn said:


> MuraCoat said:
> 
> 
> > The *temperature* in a room has a lot to do with *sagging paint*.
> ...


What's that under the thumbs down Behr paint? Valvoline oil, Shell oil and auto parts? *Yes, that's credible. Mechanics thumbing down paint.* :blink: Oh boy...

Well here's a :thumbsup: from me. I will be using the Behr Ultra with primer tomorrow. Yes, I will be painting right over mud/patching, without priming. Making da money - wit da Behr. :notworthy:


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

it cracks me up when guys that use 200 or superspec complain about behr.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

high fibre said:


> it cracks me up when guys that use 200 or superspec complain about behr.


I crack up when I see a professional painter at HD buying Behr :yes:


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

Yup. Oh wait, I only see guys with Tercels with 6' ladders bungeed to their roof at HD....


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## mattvpaint (Jan 30, 2013)

kdpaint said:


> Yup. Oh wait, I only see guys with Tercels with 6' ladders bungeed to their roof at HD....


Haha yes!!


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

MuraCoat said:


> What's that under the thumbs down Behr paint? Valvoline oil, Shell oil and auto parts? *Yes, that's credible. Mechanics thumbing down paint.* :blink: Oh boy...


Hardly, those three arms have 60 years of painting experience.....:yes:


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

kdpaint said:


> Yup. Oh wait, I only see guys with Tercels with 6' ladders bungeed to their roof at HD....


:thumbsup:

I enjoyed that.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

So let me get this straight. You "Pros" buy your paint elsewhere cause pros don't shop at hd. So the plumber who buys that faucet at hd is not a pro, or the tile guy, or the electrician or the carpet guy, or the carpenter. Face it. It's right up there with the rest of the paints, at a fraction of the markup ad independents. I get it. You pros want to remain loyal to the independents no matter what. Yet you guys wont knock your electrician for putting in a new light that was purchased at hd and will last just as long as one sold down the street at the specialty store for much more money. Funny how you guys cut each other down but you dont ever cut down the other trades for doing the same thing.


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

RCP said:


> Hardly, those three arms have *60* years of painting experience.....:yes:


But they are comparing $60 a gallon paint to $25/$30 gallon paint and
giving no valid reason why it sucks. "It sucks because, well, we say it sucks", is a meritless claim. 

Here is a :thumbsup: to more profit. :notworthy:


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Zoomer said:


> So let me get this straight. You "Pros" buy your paint elsewhere cause pros don't shop at hd. So the plumber who buys that faucet at hd is not a pro, or the tile guy, or the electrician or the carpet guy, or the carpenter. Face it. It's right up there with the rest of the paints, at a fraction of the markup ad independents. I get it. You pros want to remain loyal to the independents no matter what. Yet you guys wont knock your electrician for putting in a new light that was purchased at hd and will last just as long as one sold down the street at the specialty store for much more money. Funny how you guys cut each other down but you dont ever cut down the other trades for doing the same thing.




Yes pretty much. The stores are designed to make it harder to get in and out of by firms whose job is getting shoppers to spend more money while in the warehouse. If you do have a question getting someone who knows more than most diy warriors is almost impossible. 

I agree its not so bad for paint, but if I can source any material from a supplier who knows my name and business I will do it. For things I can't get elsewhere or its last minute I go into the box.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

MuraCoat said:


> But they are comparing $60 a gallon paint to $25/$30 gallon paint.
> 
> Here is a :thumbsup: to more profit. :notworthy:


Its not the cost but the markup to compare. Sw may spend 20$ to manufacture a gallon of emerald, bm may spend 20 for aura, behr may spend 15 for ultra. But who marks it up the most to pay for wholesalers, shipping...etc.
Michelin is a good tire but not any better than my firestone tires. Have had both and yet spent 200 less for firestones getting almost the same life from both. Markup is deception in thinking its a vastly superior product. Levi's still has some of the longest lasting jeans on the market and yet they are a fraction of the cost of most jeans from nordstroms but they usually last longer than any jeans from nordstroms. How can that be since things that cost more are better, are'nt they?


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

straight_lines said:


> Yes pretty much. The stores are designed to make it harder to get in and out of by firms whose job is getting shoppers to spend more money while in the warehouse. If you do have a question getting someone who knows more than most diy warriors is almost impossible.
> 
> I agree its not so bad for paint, but if I can source any material from a supplier who knows my name and business I will do it. For things I can't get elsewhere or its last minute I go into the box.


But you are a pro who doesnt need the advice of a diy or an independent retailer store clerk. I have never known an sw, bm, or other stores personnel to have more experience than the pros applying the paint itself.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

MuraCoat said:


> But they are comparing $60 a gallon paint to $25/$30 gallon paint and
> giving no valid reason why it sucks. "It sucks because, well, we say it sucks", is a meritless claim.
> 
> Here is a :thumbsup: to more profit. :notworthy:


Wow! Behr is $60!? I have a thread somewhere here backing up the pic.:thumbsup:


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

Zoomer said:


> But you are a pro who doesnt need the advice of a diy or an independent retailer store clerk. I have never known an sw, bm, or other stores personnel to have more experience than the pros applying the paint itself.


MAB used to have a bunch of retired contractors working behind the counters an it was great to have access to that kind knowledge but now that SW bought them out its all kids with no clue


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

RCP said:


> Hardly, those three arms have 60 years of painting experience.....:yes:


I will let you continue this as I am damn sure muracoat is not done yet.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Zoomer said:


> So let me get this straight. You "Pros" buy your paint elsewhere cause pros don't shop at hd. So the plumber who buys that faucet at hd is not a pro, or the tile guy, or the electrician or the carpet guy, or the carpenter. Face it. It's right up there with the rest of the paints, at a fraction of the markup ad independents. I get it. You pros want to remain loyal to the independents no matter what. Yet you guys wont knock your electrician for putting in a new light that was purchased at hd and will last just as long as one sold down the street at the specialty store for much more money. Funny how you guys cut each other down but you dont ever cut down the other trades for doing the same thing.


 
plumbers and electricians , carpenters do not buy their supplies at the big box stores( at least none I have ever seen)
carpet and tile guys, maybe, maybe


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

chrisn said:


> I will let you continue this as I am damn sure muracoat is not done yet.


 Great, ,your a painter and psychic.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Ole34 said:


> MAB used to have a bunch of retired contractors working behind the counters an it was great to have access to that kind knowledge but now that SW bought them out its all kids with no clue


Yes you are correct


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

MuraCoat said:


> Great, ,your a painter and psychic.


 
but I was right, yes?


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

I can't believe we keep having this same discussion.

Go use 10,000 gallons of (for example) Regal. Then go buy and use 2 gallons of Behr.
If you still think Behr is good, then use it with a smile because you know something other painters don't.

Don't make me tell my Ryobi drill story again..cuz I will.


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## Seattlepainting (Jun 8, 2010)

FPoBBStores.

This conversation about Behr vs. Others is as old as HTML 4.

Eventually somebody will create compelling content showing results with Behr; a mansion restore etc. Outside of industrial; I think Behr sells more paint than any other brand. Maybe that firepower will lead to a great advocate with celebrity power like Bob Vila.

They would make a premium label ... XBehr ; and upon release it would rank #1 on consumer reports. Then I could imagine EuroBehr an Alykd modified coating.

Just like any paint manufacturer; they could make a high performing paint it's raw materials cooked together .


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## benthepainter (Jun 17, 2011)

Steve Richards said:


> I can't believe we keep having this same discussion.
> 
> Go use 10,000 gallons of (for example) Regal. Then go buy and use 2 gallons of Behr.
> If you still think Behr is good, then use it with a smile because you know something other painters don't.
> ...


Gday Steve

Please go ahead whats the story about the drill ?


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Steve Richards said:


> I can't believe we keep having this same discussion.
> 
> Go use 10,000 gallons of (for example) Regal. Then go buy and use 2 gallons of Behr.
> If you still think Behr is good, then use it with a smile because you know something other painters don't.
> ...


Please Mr. Richards tell us a bedtime Ryobi story.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Zoomer said:


> So let me get this straight. You "Pros" buy your paint elsewhere cause pros don't shop at hd. So the plumber who buys that faucet at hd is not a pro, or the tile guy, or the electrician or the carpet guy, or the carpenter. Face it. It's right up there with the rest of the paints, at a fraction of the markup ad independents. I get it. You pros want to remain loyal to the independents no matter what. Yet you guys wont knock your electrician for putting in a new light that was purchased at hd and will last just as long as one sold down the street at the specialty store for much more money. Funny how you guys cut each other down but you dont ever cut down the other trades for doing the same thing.


 :notworthy::thumbup::yes:!


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Steve Richards said:


> I can't believe we keep having this same discussion.
> 
> Go use 10,000 gallons of (for example) Regal. Then go buy and use 2 gallons of Behr.
> If you still think Behr is good, then use it with a smile because you know something other painters don't.
> ...


 Please dont drill us on that again!


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

MuraCoat said:


> Great, ,your a painter and psychic.


 Typo. painter and a psyho!


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Behr has flair!:yes:


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

Ugh, once again, Behr has decent paint. IMO, pricewise, certainly no better, but also no worse than other paints in each product's price range. My experience is their counter service blows, their sundries don't match my needs, and HD is a depressing place.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

RCP said:


> Hardly, those three arms have 60 years of painting experience.....:yes:


Wouldnt go bragging. You know that 30 years exp painting doesnt mean anything. I see proof of that every day. If that were true you'd think 60 would be enough to figure how to make any paint work. Right? I mean. I had no problem using it out of the box.  The first time. :whistling2: Like I was saying...


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

They are old dogs, not superheroes...


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

RCP said:


> They are old dogs, not superheroes...


You know I'm just pokin'


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> You know I'm just pokin'


:thumbsup:


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

jack pauhl said:


> Wouldnt go bragging. You know that 30 years exp painting doesnt mean anything. I see proof of that every day. If that were true you'd think 60 would be enough to figure how to make any paint work. Right? I mean. I had no problem using it out of the box.  The first time. :whistling2: Like I was saying...


Jack "Black" makes a comeback, and rocks the house. :notworthy:

When I think "Behr" I think more profit. Only a fool would spend $55 per gallon on paint. That's ok SW & BM, you can keep that over priced paint on the shelf. I ain't paying your advertising costs... :yes:

Chrisn - do you feel me on this one?


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

MuraCoat said:


> When I think "Behr" I think more profit. Only a fool would spend $55 per gallon on paint. That's ok SW & BM, you can keep that over priced paint on the shelf. I ain't paying your *advertising costs*... :yes:


Funny, I can't remember the last time I've seen a BM or SW commercial on tv but I see one's for behr quite a bit.

BTW, I've made more profit using BM and SW than I ever had on behr jobs, although that was my bad. If you're doing things right, you should be able to make the same % no matter what paint you use. 

I find on average, the higher priced paints get me there easier. It may be counter-intuitive, but it's actually simple why it works this way.


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## 1963 Sovereign (Dec 14, 2011)

Good to see you posting again,Jack.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

Yeah, when I pick the right paint for the job, I think profit, not any particular brand or store. Blind allegiance to any brand IMO is silly. Each paint company, with its "good, better, best" has products that work in specific areas. Painters who use 55$ per gallon paint for certain things are not fools, they are just using particular products for certain jobs. 

If I am doing cabs, (nice ones, not the junk ones I think some of us do...) I am not using anything in the 20s or low 30$ range. Why? Because those paints are not good enough. Simple. Does Advance (SI, Proclassic, Ultraplate, conversion varnish, lacquer etc) beat Behr Ultra or PP for cabs? Yup. They are also more expensive...for a reason. This is where apples and oranges comparisons come in. 2 lines of paint would never fill my needs.

As for profit, we have all been down this road. I am not competing against guys that need to crow about making more profit on 25$ a gallon paint. I don't care; I charge accordingly. If my costs on a job are 850$ more to use a better paint...guess who pays? The majority of my clients are long term. I don't have to beat the guy in the Tercel.

Perception is big with a lot of clients; roll in with HD paint, and many of them will not be happy. This is not about facts, for many clients PERCEPTION IS KEY. Show up in a beater, looking unkempt, etc, they don't like it. Show up with Behr.... The facts, imo, speak for themselves.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

kdpaint said:


> Yeah, when I pick the right paint for the job, I think profit, not any particular brand or store. Blind allegiance to any brand IMO is silly. Each paint company, with its "good, better, best" has products that work in specific areas. Painters who use 55$ per gallon paint for certain things are not fools, they are just using particular products for certain jobs.
> 
> If I am doing cabs, (nice ones, not the junk ones I think some of us do...) I am not using anything in the 20s or low 30$ range. Why? Because those paints are not good enough. Simple. Does Advance (SI, Proclassic, Ultraplate, conversion varnish, lacquer etc) beat Behr Ultra or PP for cabs? Yup. They are also more expensive...for a reason. This is where apples and oranges comparisons come in. 2 lines of paint would never fill my needs.
> 
> ...


 There's good,better than there's Behr!


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

TJ Paint said:


> Funny, I can't remember the last time I've seen a BM or SW commercial on tv but I see one's for behr quite a bit.
> 
> *BTW, I've made more profit using BM and SW than I ever had on behr jobs, although that was my bad.* If you're doing things right, you should be able to make the same % no matter what paint you use.
> 
> I find on average, the higher priced paints get me there easier. It may be counter-intuitive, but it's actually simple why it works this way.


Excuse me, but my mathematics is not that good. 

- I figured 3 gallons of Behr ceiling paint at $23.98 /EA-Each and 3 gallons Behr Ultra at $34.98 /EA-Each
Total $177.88 (less 10% contractor discount). You do the math.
*vs.* Sherwin Williams 'Duration and their premium ceiling paint' 
approx total $240.00... So far I made $63 dollars more than you !?!

HD commercial on TV? Maybe that's why Home Depot is the world’s largest home improvement chain, reported first-quarter sales of $17.81 billion???

I don't know how more expensive paints are easier to use? I have found that Behr covers well and doesn't need to be strained. 

If you have a problem working with the behr, (maybe too thick for you to handle) try thinning the paint, or, hitting the gym. :jester:


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

kdpaint said:


> Yeah, when I pick the right paint for the job, I think profit, not any particular brand or store. Blind allegiance to any brand IMO is silly. Each paint company, with its "good, better, best" has products that work in specific areas. Painters who use 55$ per gallon paint for certain things are not fools, they are just using particular products for certain jobs.
> 
> *If I am doing cabs, (nice ones, not the junk ones I think some of us do...) I am not using anything in the 20s or low 30$ range. Why? Because those paints are not good enough. Simple. Does Advance (SI, Proclassic, Ultraplate, conversion varnish, lacquer etc) beat Behr Ultra or PP for cabs? Yup. They are also more expensive...for a reason. This is where apples and oranges comparisons come in. 2 lines of paint would never fill my needs.*
> 
> ...


Yes, I would want the best of the best for cabs... Why? (1) gallon usually does it, and the materials vs., profit is lower than doing a whole room.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

In your example, you are comparing products in different price ranges. A job specc'd for pricey ceiling paint and Duration can be different in terms of client, type of home and lots of other factors, than a job specc'd for low/mid grade paints. 
Personally, 30ish is about as high as I usually go for wall paint, although I do like Muralo and Regal Select...

Anyone can get good ceiling paint for 15-22$ and good wall paint for 25-45$, all from at least 3 or 4 good paint companies. Behr, or any other paint company does not have a lock on products, especially in those price ranges.


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

kdpaint said:


> In your example, you are comparing products in different price ranges. A job specc'd for pricey ceiling paint and Duration can *be different in terms of client, type of home and lots of other factors*, *than a job specc'd for low/mid grade paints.*
> Personally, 30ish is about as high as I usually go for wall paint, although I do like Muralo and Regal Select...
> 
> Anyone can get good ceiling paint for 15-22$ and good wall paint for 25-45$, all from at least 3 or 4 good paint companies. Behr, or any other paint company does not have a lock on products, especially in those price ranges.


That language is irrelevant - I am talking paint quality - $25 a gallon Behr paint vs $25 a gallon (other brand).

FYI - "$" goes before the number...


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## Stonehampaintdept (Jan 10, 2013)

Steve Richards said:


> Don't make me tell my Ryobi drill story again..cuz I will.


I've never heard your Ryobi story..Is it story time yet? Huh Huh Huh
I can tell you that when I repaired power tools we could not fix Ryobi's with the exception of a simple cord. Parts simply were not available because of an exclusive contract with Depot. Get a Dewalt, Makita, Milwaukee and no problem. (Their were even exception for Dewalts sold at HD because it wasn't a regularly mass produced tool and HD commonly creates specs to be sold at a certain price point) Ryobi use to be a good tool. But if you cant fix it when it breaks, and they all do, is it worth buying a new hammer drill because it needs a $25 switch? Not in my opinion.
In regards to other items sold at HD and Lowes:

Did you know their lightbulbs for the most part were failed quality control batches they bought for pennies on the dollar put in the same packaging. 

Their schlage locksets are pretty much all plastic parts inside. The ones you buy from a locksmith are all brass, so of course they're more $.

Ever try to replace a rubber gasket from a fridge purchased at HD? I get at least a half dozen stories a year for people looking for one for their 1-2 year old fridge, and it's not available from any appliance repair shop. I'm sure their are exceptions but still a good number of complaints.

I've known a number of electricians who have tried going to HD and buying the $30-$50 bathroom fan rather than the $130 version from Electric supply USA and most times get callbacks because it stopped working.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

I've used PP at $25 and found other paints in that price range to be as good or better...soooo, no savings there. I have used Ultra at $35, and found it to be ok, but not better than other paints at that price. Again, no savings. Your dollar for dollar quality argument is specious at best. 
The argument itself is the same as other ones where people swear SW/BM is the best.
Ok paint versus ok paint- not a big deal.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

jack pauhl said:


> Wouldnt go bragging. You know that 30 years exp painting doesnt mean anything. I see proof of that every day. If that were true you'd think 60 would be enough to figure how to make any paint work. Right? I mean. I had no problem using it out of the box.  The first time. :whistling2: Like I was saying...


Very good point.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

MuraCoat said:


> Jack "Black" makes a comeback, and rocks the house. :notworthy:
> 
> When I think "Behr" I think more profit. Only a fool would spend $55 per gallon on paint. That's ok SW & BM, you can keep that over priced paint on the shelf. I ain't paying your advertising costs... :yes:
> 
> Chrisn - do you feel me on this one?


I would bet good money that if a poll were taken as to what paint brand was used. Mr Bear would be at the bottom of the list and BM, SW would be on top. So go suck on that for awhile.:laughing:


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Just grin and Behr it. This brand is not going away anytime soon.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

MuraCoat said:


> Excuse me, but my mathematics is not that good.
> _It's not your math, it's your business acumen exhibited in these posts._
> 
> So far I made $63 dollars more than you !?!
> ...


Aura is quite a bit thicker than your stuff son. 

Anything else, or can we be done with this nonsense talk?


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

TJ Paint said:


> Aura is quite a bit thicker than your stuff son.
> 
> Anything else, or can we be done with this nonsense talk?[/QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

benthepainter said:


> Please go ahead whats the story about the drill ?





Rbriggs82 said:


> Please Mr. Richards tell us a bedtime Ryobi story.





Stonehampaintdept said:


> I've never heard your Ryobi story...


Ok guys..gather 'round.
*lighting my pipe and putting my feet up on the desk*


For Christmas about 10 years ago, I got a Ryobi drill/saw/light set.
I use the saw occasionally, but I still use that drill, sometimes every day.
Its a good drill. It does everything I need it to, and has for many years now.

So why don't I go into the carpentry section on CT, and post about the good power tools Ryobi makes?

Because those guys are professional carpenters, and know that Ryobi tools suck...even if they're "good enough" for me.

COULD a pro carpenter use Ryobi tools and still get good results? Yes.
COULD a pro painter use Behr paint and still get good results? Yes.

*resting my case*
*stepping down off my soapbox*
*walking out and slamming the door*

see ya
I have to work today (I need to be more careful what I wish for) you guys have a good Sunday.


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

BTW
You know how you'd feel if you saw a carpenter show up at a job with a bunch of Ryobi tools?

That's how I feel when I'm at HD (buying my Ryobi tools), and I see a painter getting his paint.


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## sully9er (Jan 24, 2011)

kdpaint said:


> If I am doing cabs, (nice ones, not the junk ones I think some of us do...) I am not using anything in the 20s or low 30$ range. Why? Because those paints are not good enough. Simple. Does Advance (SI, Proclassic, Ultraplate, conversion varnish, lacquer etc) beat Behr Ultra or PP for cabs? Yup. They are also more expensive...for a reason. This is where apples and oranges comparisons come in. 2 lines of paint would never fill my needs.


Why would you use Behr ultra in the same category for cabs as pro classic. If you are going to make that argument at least know the Behr products. I would take the Behr alkyd any day of the week over pro classic. It covers better, better stain resistance, better flow, better adhesion, and is cheaper. This is what i found when doing test boards and scratch tests.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

sully9er said:


> Why would you use Behr ultra in the same category for cabs as pro classic. If you are going to make that argument at least know the Behr products. I would take the Behr alkyd any day of the week over pro classic. It covers better, better stain resistance, better flow, better adhesion, and is cheaper. This is what i found when doing test boards and scratch tests.


I wouldn't. But there are plenty of people on this site that would, and do, and have posted about it in the past. Hell, some people use SW 200 for cabs. BTW, I'm not even sure if Proclassic waterborne is a lot better than Behr Ultra...I know the alkyd/acrylic is....

But in Mura's posts all he talks about is PP and Ultra, and how great they are, and how spending $55 for a gallon of paint makes you a fool. Which, of course, is ridiculous, as certain situations call for expensive products.


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

kdpaint said:


> I wouldn't. But there are plenty of people on this site that would, and do, and have posted about it in the past. Hell, some people use SW 200 for cabs. BTW, I'm not even sure if Proclassic waterborne is a lot better than Behr Ultra...I know the alkyd/acrylic is....
> 
> But in Mura's posts all he talks about is PP and Ultra, and how great they are, and how spending $55 for a gallon of paint makes you a fool. Which, of course, is ridiculous, as certain situations call for expensive products.


I think the major issue that guys like Mura and Zoomer do not consider when deciding what brand of paint they use is who are they supporting and what is behind the curtain. I would rather support a real paint company like SW or DE, and maybe the independent BM once in a while rather than a company like HD that actually has subcontractors that are painting for them. Yes, unless you are one of those guys, then I understand the need to be a hardcore Behr supporter. Every gallon you purchase goes into the pocket of a company that is selling paint jobs from under your nose. I don't support the double dipping policies of HD in this regard. I understand that when you buy carpet, the need for installation. But $99 for the installation. What subcontactor can work for that. HD IMHO has degraded the construction industry, especially the paint industry. I knew a few of the HD subs and wow can you say scary. A HO would never have hired these guys if having done a proper estimate upfront. When the job is finished, they are left with bewilderment and accept that this is the industry standard because HD tells them so. When HD and Lowes markets to every HO that they can do it themselves, guess what, 99% can't and their project turns out like crap. So keep supporting HD with their never strain paint!! I don't care if its the best paint on the planet and the cheapest. The only people who should be purchasing this stuff are sheeple HO's and the subs who have to use it.


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

TJ Paint said:


> Aura is quite a bit thicker than your stuff son.
> 
> Anything else, or can we be done with this nonsense talk?


The powerful wizard of paint has spoken! :euro:


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Mike, we buy a fair amount of paint from hd because it works. Come and tell that scrub story to my father. He is the second generation of our company. He has used about everything under the sun, from industrial epoxys, commercial dryfall, lead based oils to the 60-80 dollar paints that can't cover in one coat white over white. His comment to Akzo noble on their glidden flat sold at hd, what kind of chit are you guys putting in that paint? It practically covered in one coat off white over dark red. An's response to dad was science and chemistry at a fair price. Dad asked for chemical makeup of all bm and sw products and was told a lot of fillers are put in to meet more stringent standards but markup on cost is high to increase profits for shareholders. He then asked why a 20$ gallon of paint from hd covered just as well as aura or emerald. Much smaller markup and nearly the same amount of titanium oxide. Mike you come and tell that to a a professional painter who has used and applied nearly as much paint as anyone in 45 years of painting. But since you pros know everything i'm sure you won't admit it. The pros call my father and use to call my grandfather when they needed advice on anything paint related. Just saying you can' t judge a can by its label and where it is sold. Tell that to pops. I dare you to look him up call him and tell him he is a scrub for using hd paint. I dare you. As pops would say, small potatoes. He's small potatoes.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

This week, 15 gallons of p&l monday, tuesday and wednesday 27 gallons of kilz pro, thursday-sunday 5gallons of stix and 6 gallons of advance. In one week 3 different brands to meet our business model. Same since 1958 Mike!


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

Cool, man. I can appreciate your history as I am a third generation paint contractor as well. That being said, it is my opinion, that HD has severely degraded OUR industry. They might have great products through Kilz and Behr, but that is not the point. Homeowners account for more paint purchased than paint contractors as a total. Before the big box stores, HO would call you and I to paint their homes. Now they try to take it on themselves, bad for us IMO. And, the fact that HD sells paint jobs is further insulting the paint industry. That is the reality of what you are purchasing, regardless of how well the product performs for you. I have purchased Behr, when I had to. Never had a problem, actually worked nice, but they will never be my choice when given one.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

It is not about the paint for me either. Everyone has decent paint. HD has not done anything good for contractors like Mike has stated before. I don't like going there for stuff for my own house, I can't imagine going in there for work.


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## Delta Painting (Apr 27, 2010)

MuraCoat said:


> I don't know how more expensive paints are easier to use? I have found that Behr covers well and doesn't need to be strained.


Um this statement tells a story about your business without you even having to explain... 

Pro's strain there paint no matter who the manufacture is..


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## Delta Painting (Apr 27, 2010)

MikeCalifornia said:


> Cool, man. I can appreciate your history as I am a third generation paint contractor as well. That being said, it is my opinion, that HD has severely degraded OUR industry. They might have great products through Kilz and Behr, but that is not the point. Homeowners account for more paint purchased than paint contractors as a total. Before the big box stores, HO would call you and I to paint their homes. Now they try to take it on themselves, bad for us IMO. And, the fact that HD sells paint jobs is further insulting the paint industry. That is the reality of what you are purchasing, regardless of how well the product performs for you. I have purchased Behr, when I had to. Never had a problem, actually worked nice, but they will never be my choice when given one.



Yup they have a great marketing co. on retainer..You can F*** it up and they can help!

You see the whole pic Mike wile others see money.

Like stated many times here on PT materials are a small % of the job the HO or business owner is paying so who gives a rat's ass what it cost...

Look at what a box of 1 pound drywall screws cost at HD that alone should be a red flag.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

And that box of drywall screws was probably from 5 tons of rejects that HD got on the cheap...


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

Delta Painting said:


> Um *this statement tells a story* about your business without you even having to explain...
> 
> Pro's strain there paint no matter who the manufacture is..


No, my statement was read by you and convoluted into the meaning you have given it. My work is flawless... 
If paint has been sitting in the warehouse for months and needs to be strained, I will strain it. If any dry paint gets knocked in the bucket while working, I'll even strain it a second time, during the 2nd half of the day.

Have you ever strained the same paint twice in one day? I have!

*Fresh paint has no need to be strained unless you got a bad batch. *


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## Delta Painting (Apr 27, 2010)

MuraCoat said:


> No, my statement was read by you and convoluted into the meaning you have given it. My work is flawless...
> If paint has been sitting in the warehouse for months and needs to be strained, I will strain it. If any dry paint gets knocked in the bucket while working, I'll even strain it a second time, during the 2nd half of the day.
> 
> Have you ever strained the same paint twice in one day? I have!



MMMM K.....


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

Delta Painting said:


> Um this statement tells a story about your business without you even having to explain...
> 
> *Pro's strain there paint no matter who the manufacture is*..


*Straining paint*

Recently purchased paint should not have to be strained, and should be returned if it has any particles or solids that do not dissolve after thorough stirring. You may, however, need to strain cans of paint that you have been stored and cans of paint that you have opened and closed several times.

http://learnhousepainting.com/articles/straining_paint_ND.html

Author Steve Broujos is a house painting contractor with over 20 years of experience. He is also a decorative painter and house painting skills teacher._ (Before you discredit a web sites content, do research as to what credibility the Owner/Author has pertaining to the subject matter)._ Just food for thought? 

Steve also has books for sale: Surface Preparation for Interior House Painting By: Steven Broujos -- Keep straining that paint Mike and forget what "*Steve Broujos LLC*" has to say... He is either clueless and gives bad advice or maybe DIY/homeowners just paint with a different set of standards. I Dunno?


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

kdpaint said:


> HD has not done anything good for contractors like Mike has stated before. I don't like going there for stuff for my own house, I can't imagine going in there for work.


They haven't done a thing good for me as a H.O. Today I went with my 4yr old to exchange our water bottles. (the big 5gal dispenser type). Well, I usually go to the return lane because the pallet is right there. Being that I have 3 to exchange, and a kid with me, its easier. I give them the empties, they ring me up, I grab 3 more and go. Well today this young woman says to me before I'm even up to the counter "You know, you can take those to the U-scan". I said last time I tried that they sent me back here because they can't do the deposit return, so I had to make 2 trips across your store with 15gal of water in my cart. She then rolled her eyes..... Well next time I'm going to ask for assistance in lifting these. I guarantee if I had hurt myself HD's response would be " we would have helped you with that, you should have asked".


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## Cam3sc (Mar 25, 2013)

Zoomer said:


> Mike, we buy a fair amount of paint from hd because it works. Come and tell that scrub story to my father. He is the second generation of our company. He has used about everything under the sun, from industrial epoxys, commercial dryfall, lead based oils to the 60-80 dollar paints that can't cover in one coat white over white. His comment to Akzo noble on their glidden flat sold at hd, what kind of chit are you guys putting in that paint? It practically covered in one coat off white over dark red. An's response to dad was science and chemistry at a fair price. Dad asked for chemical makeup of all bm and sw products and was told a lot of fillers are put in to meet more stringent standards but markup on cost is high to increase profits for shareholders. He then asked why a 20$ gallon of paint from hd covered just as well as aura or emerald. Much smaller markup and nearly the same amount of titanium oxide. Mike you come and tell that to a a professional painter who has used and applied nearly as much paint as anyone in 45 years of painting. But since you pros know everything i'm sure you won't admit it. The pros call my father and use to call my grandfather when they needed advice on anything paint related. Just saying you can' t judge a can by its label and where it is sold. Tell that to pops. I dare you to look him up call him and tell him he is a scrub for using hd paint. I dare you. As pops would say, small potatoes. He's small potatoes.


I am glad my customers don't live by the same motto as you. We have illegals that work hard do just as good as a job and for half the price? Why? Their not licensed and bonded and don't register with the state. I Go to SW and Ben because everyday I go in there I get acknowledged by my name and they ask how I have been. Sure I could go to HD where I am just another guy making there $10/hour job harder but when I got to SW I am treated like I mean something and if their is a problem a rep will be there to help me...Not 2 weeks. Sure you could always get it cheaper, but so could our customers. At the end of the day the few $ i pay more pay itself back.


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## workin'man (Jan 18, 2013)

I would like to challenge anyone to walk into home depot and walk out with quality anything. Home depot sucks... they stock cheap shizzle for cheap people.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

Maybe the paint stores in certain people's areas are really horrible or not convenient (as in you live in the absolute sticks), and HD is the only game in town. That might explain a little bit about this Cult of HD thing....:jester:


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## matt19422 (Oct 2, 2009)

Remember that guy who was banned for having multiple screen names?


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

kdpaint said:


> Maybe the paint stores in certain people's areas are really horrible or not convenient (as in you live in the absolute sticks), and HD is the only game in town. That might explain a little bit about this Cult of HD thing....:jester:


I doubt it, SW has 3500 stores, way more than HD. BM has 1700ish dealers. It is the perception of where the HO needs to go to start and finish a project. This is why HD is so big and all the little mom and pop hardware stores are gone. I'm not saying those little stores were that great, but dang you could buy five nails if you wanted to, sold by the pound. Now get a little bag for .99 or a box for $7. They get you for all the little crap you have to buy along with that gallon of paint for $20. If a HO would price shop the entire job, HD is always the most expensive, but they are damn convienent.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Cam3sc said:


> I am glad my customers don't live by the same motto as you. We have illegals that work hard do just as good as a job and for half the price? Why? Their not licensed and bonded and don't register with the state. I Go to SW and Ben because everyday I go in there I get acknowledged by my name and they ask how I have been. Sure I could go to HD where I am just another guy making there $10/hour job harder but when I got to SW I am treated like I mean something and if their is a problem a rep will be there to help me...Not 2 weeks. Sure you could always get it cheaper, but so could our customers. At the end of the day the few $ i pay more pay itself back.


Well im mexican/spanish/american and i am not illegal. My business has grown tremendously in the last 13 years since taking it over from pops. Hd does not hurt my business. Maybe you need to be a better estimator/marketer/salesman. That is if you own your own business and aren't an employee. My business thrives 2months out for most of the summer and usually 3weeks out in winter months means customer retention. No advertising only business cards and over 90% closing rate on high end residential but only 27% closing on low income housing. Repeat business is very strong. We can count back up to 13 referrals, a friend of a friend of a friend...etc to track where our business is coming from. Our business is stronger than it was back in 2001 when home building was booming. But if you need that hello in the morning from your paint store to stroke your ego, well then good for you. If my grandfather and fathers' clients families are calling us time and time again it tells me that our work and products we use have continued to work well since 58. But I guess we will go belly up since we dont use sw or bm everyday.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

workin'man said:


> I would like to challenge anyone to walk into home depot and walk out with quality anything. Home depot sucks... they stock cheap shizzle for cheap people.


Purchased a ceiling fan in july 2003 for my master bedroom , hunter douglas. Three other ceiling fans in the house i purchased the same day from a specialty light store. We run our fans nonstop year round and the only one yet to be replaced is the one from hd. So i guess hd sells crap.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Cam3sc said:


> I am glad my customers don't live by the same motto as you. We have illegals that work hard do just as good as a job and for half the price? Why? Their not licensed and bonded and don't register with the state. I Go to SW and Ben because everyday I go in there I get acknowledged by my name and they ask how I have been. Sure I could go to HD where I am just another guy making there $10/hour job harder but when I got to SW I am treated like I mean something and if their is a problem a rep will be there to help me...Not 2 weeks. Sure you could always get it cheaper, but so could our customers. At the end of the day the few $ i pay more pay itself back.


Btw are licensed and insured in colorado since 1958.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Zoomer said:


> Purchased a ceiling fan in july 2003 for my master bedroom , hunter douglas. Three other ceiling fans in the house i purchased the same day from a specialty light store. We run our fans nonstop year round and the only one yet to be replaced is the one from hd. So i guess hd sells crap.


I'm a fan of hd.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Zoomer said:


> If my grandfather and fathers' clients families are calling us time and time again it tells me that our work and products we use have continued to work well since 58. But I guess we will go belly up since we dont use sw or bm everyday.


Do what works for you and the business your granddad started for you. 

I started my own business and didn't need HD to make it work.

I also got a funny story about getting kicked out of HD, but won't get into it right now.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Zoomer said:


> Well im mexican/spanish/american and i am not illegal. My business has grown tremendously in the last 13 years since taking it over from pops. Hd does not hurt my business. Maybe you need to be a better estimator/marketer/salesman. That is if you own your own business and aren't an employee. My business thrives 2months out for most of the summer and usually 3weeks out in winter months means customer retention. No advertising only business cards and over 90% closing rate on high end residential but only 27% closing on low income housing. Repeat business is very strong. We can count back up to 13 referrals, a friend of a friend of a friend...etc to track where our business is coming from. Our business is stronger than it was back in 2001 when home building was booming. But if you need that hello in the morning from your paint store to stroke your ego, well then good for you. If my grandfather and fathers' clients families are calling us time and time again it tells me that our work and products we use have continued to work well since 58. But I guess we will go belly up since we dont use sw or bm everyday.


really?


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

Zoomer said:


> Btw are licensed and insured in colorado since 1958.


 Really?



TJ Paint said:


> I also got a funny story about getting kicked out of HD, but won't get into it right now.


Oh no you don't...when I get home, I expect to read the whole GD story.

..and don't leave out any of the disgusting or perverted details.


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

I don't really know what Behr is like anymore..maybe they've changed it since I used it last.
It was on a brown accent wall. That paint consistency reminded me so much of chocolate pudding..although I think a good chocolate pudding might have covered better.

It turned a simple little job into a long day of cussing, and swearing I'd never use it again.

..and being a man of my word..I never have.

Yet

Someone calls and says "I already bought the paint"...I always cringe a little and ask "what did you buy?" So far, so good.:thumbsup:


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## Craftworks (Apr 2, 2013)

MuraCoat said:


> The *temperature* in a room has a lot to do with *sagging paint*.
> If you paint an interior at 62 degrees, you are asking for *sags*...
> 
> Don't blame it on the Behr.


I like a paint you can lay on walk away and not give a thought , that is not Behr . Behr is a good paint if you put on tight coats and build slower .

Since Behr is still sold as HD's #1 paint , more or less it must be a good paint 
& I could see home owners liking it, as it is a paint that is slower to work with , matching the true speed of DIY home painters.

--------------------------
A good paint will allow me to apply as much paint as I can. Behr cannot keep up with my true speed potential ,when that method is key for the situation .


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

Steve Richards said:


> *I don't really know what Behr is like anymore..maybe they've changed it since I used it last.*
> It was on a brown accent wall. That paint consistency reminded me so much of chocolate pudding..although I think a good chocolate pudding might have covered better.
> 
> It turned a simple little job into a long day of cussing, and swearing I'd never use it again.
> ...


Go try the Behr Ultra, and for the price, wow, it will make you a believer. It makes ProMar 200 look like "paint water"...


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

MuraCoat said:


> Go try the Behr Ultra, and for the price, wow, it will make you a believer. It makes ProMar 200 look like "paint water"...


Not doubting it is a nice product. Maybe its the best of its class, don't know. Not the point I was trying to make about purchasing your paint from HD. 

1. You like Behr, say go try some, its great.
2. Behr is only sold at HD!!
3. HD is sucking the construction industry dry
4. HD has degraded the paint industry
5. HD subcontracts paint jobs
6. HD is taking money from your pocket
7. HD is more expensive on total job cost
8. Try Behr, NO THANKS!!


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Sorry but Behr lacks the finish quality to be considered for a high end paint job. Not speaking of the semi or satin for trim as much as wall paint. 


They don't even have a matte, or a flat enamel. Of course DIY'ers will pick satin 90% of the time.

Its a fast product with great film build in its price range. It also smells like ammonia since it uses glycol colorants still.

Oh and I am pretty certain Clark and Kensington is the same paint.


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## workin'man (Jan 18, 2013)

Zoomer said:


> Purchased a ceiling fan in july 2003 for my master bedroom , hunter douglas. Three other ceiling fans in the house i purchased the same day from a specialty light store. We run our fans nonstop year round and the only one yet to be replaced is the one from hd. So i guess hd sells crap.


That's probably how you judge your paint too....its on the wall and it still works.
Judging qaulity goes a little deeper than, it still works. You could have wired your fans wrong! Black is not ground!!!!!


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## Stonehampaintdept (Jan 10, 2013)

straight_lines said:


> Sorry but Behr lacks the finish quality to be considered for a high end paint job. Not speaking of the semi or satin for trim as much as wall paint.
> 
> 
> They don't even have a matte, or a flat enamel. Of course DIY'ers will pick satin 90% of the time.
> ...


Ace's Clark Kensington is made in the Ace paint factory which is now owned by Valspar. I "think" Behr is made in california. Not 100% sure on that.


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## sully9er (Jan 24, 2011)

straight_lines said:


> Sorry but Behr lacks the finish quality to be considered for a high end paint job. Not speaking of the semi or satin for trim as much as wall paint.
> 
> They don't even have a matte, or a flat enamel. Of course DIY'ers will pick satin 90% of the time.
> 
> ...


Actually they have a matte and a flat enamel. Also they switched colorants 8-12 months ago, and it is a low voc now. 

Have you smelt emerald? 

Also Clark and Kensington manufactured by ace. I didn't know they had the facilities.


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

straight_lines said:


> Sorry but Behr lacks the finish quality to be considered for a high end paint job. Not speaking of the semi or satin for trim as much as wall paint.
> 
> 
> *They don't even have a matte, or a flat enamel.* Of course DIY'ers will pick satin 90% of the time.
> ...


How can you judge Behr paint if you have never used it - let alone know of a products existence? 

Is there any guys that have actually used these products? TJ, Vermont?


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

MuraCoat said:


> How can you judge Behr paint if you have never used it - let alone know of a products existence?
> 
> Is there any guys that have actually used these products? TJ, Vermont?


 
yes, I have


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

MuraCoat said:


> How can you judge Behr paint if you have never used it - let alone know of a products existence?
> 
> Is there any guys that have actually used these products? TJ, Vermont?


Yes, I have used plenty of Behr on all sheen levels.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

MuraCoat said:


> How can you judge Behr paint if you have never used it - let alone know of a products existence?
> 
> Is there any guys that have actually used these products? TJ, Vermont?


I stand corrected. Still no matte though right? 



Stonehampaintdept said:


> Ace's Clark Kensington is made in the Ace paint factory which is now owned by Valspar. I "think" Behr is made in california. Not 100% sure on that.


Not saying its the exact same paint but they are very similar paints. Smell the same even.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

You have to look close at the fuzzy pic. Think it says matte at the top


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

MuraCoat said:


> How can you judge Behr paint if you have never used it - let alone know of a products existence?
> 
> Is there any guys that have actually used these products? TJ, Vermont?


I'm wondering about the "stain blocking " part .
Don't think I've seen that claim on other paint/prime/n/1 products. What kind of stains are they talking about? Surely not water or tannin?


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

sully9er said:


> Actually they have a matte and a flat enamel. Also they switched colorants 8-12 months ago, and it is a low voc now.
> 
> Have you smelt emerald?
> 
> Also Clark and Kensington manufactured by ace. I didn't know they had the facilities.


Sully thank you for clarifying that. Most of these hd/behr get their info from here say. That is somebody told them or they heard it from the grapevine and they tend to believe it. 
I think mike is afraid of hd. Man if you can't compete and win bids over their subcontractors you need to do a much better job of selling the job when you are giving the estimate to a potential customer. We have have never lost a bid on high end residential to their subs. Hd helps me because it keeps me on my toes when giving an estimate and selling the job against their subs, even if I'm bidding it for hd paint. Dude practice your selling and marketing. I have been 60% higher on bids and still get the job because we sell it and market it properly to the customer. It' s not just about putting the paint on the walls anymore, if you want to win the bids on high end residential even if you are using hd paint on that job.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

MuraCoat said:


> How can you judge Behr paint if you have never used it - let alone know of a products existence?
> 
> Is there any guys that have actually used these products? TJ, Vermont?


Good point.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

I have used PP and Ultra a bunch of times. Ultra is....about as good as most $35 paints. PP is like most $20-25 paints. It seems that some Behr fans over sell the greatness of Behr paints. I don't hate the stuff, but it's no miracle in a can. It's HD in general I despise.


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## Craftworks (Apr 2, 2013)

I have seen exterior houses painted with it and sure it does last fine year after year. But so do other paints . I have used Behr plenty It still seems foreign to me it's just not an old friend ,I never look for it But it keeps finding me.

----------------
Now if you want to go old school with Behr - I still remember how bad the wall paint covered even with a primer the semi gloss had no working time and had the nerve to drip and not cover well also, this issue they did not address year after year . Finally after years I noticed " good coverage " in there advertising


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

joshmays1976 said:


> You have to look close at the fuzzy pic. Think it says matte at the top


Mate is spanish for flat!! They have flat enamel in the PP line.


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## bubbt (Apr 20, 2013)

High guys.

I'm new around here, but I saw this one and couldn't pass it up. 

I’ve had experience with the Behr, not by choice and I’ll give you my opinion. It’s no good. If you want real paint you have to pay for it. The old saying “you get what you pay for” is true in paint also. In my experience, and I can give you a little story on it too, there are only two places to get paint. Go to Sherwin Williams or Benjamin Moore.

My son and I did a job for a guy who insisted on getting the paint. He had to have Behr. It’s the only paint out of the can, no thinning, that I rolled on a wall, turned my back to load up the roller again and when I turned around it was running and not because I globed it on.

I’ve always told people when I’m asked to figure a job that I don’t cut corners on the paint. I tell them stake out the paint counter at the local “Big Box” stores and you won’t see a professional painter in there, buying paint that is. Maybe brushes or caulk. Go to Sherwin Williams about 7:00am and you’ll see the place wrapped up with painters. 

I know an old retired painter and a couple of years ago I asked him his opinion on who had the best paint. Without batting an eye he told me Benjamin Moore is best and Sherwin Williams is number 2. Then he told me a story of a job he was going to do for a big general contractor. The contractor wanted the best paint there was at the time.

The old painter went around and bought quarts of all the paints and they sent it off to some place and had then tested. All paid for by the contractor. It turned out like he told me BM #1 and SW #2. Benjamin Moore is what they used on the job.

I also did one small exterior job for a lady who had bought Benjamin Moore paint. It was my first and only experience with it. I can say this for sure, it was without a doubt was the best paint I’ve ever rolled or brushed. It’s was pricy though. We have a couple of their stores around here, but Sherwin Williams is on about every corner.

I’m about to start a job shortly for a friend and I had already convinced him to stay away from the “Big Box” paint and go with Sherwin Williams. He balked at the price at first and finally with a 40% off sale finally settled on the best exterior paint they have to offer and it will pay off for him and me in the long run.

So, as you can tell I’m not a big fan of Behr paint.


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

MuraCoat said:


> How can you judge Behr paint if you have never used it - let alone know of a products existence?
> 
> Is there any guys that have actually used these products? TJ, Vermont?


TJ's no longer allowed in HDs
...and I'm pretty sure if Vermont ever walked up to the HD paint counter, his shoes would start smoking.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

Before I began my own business, I used to be a Behr fan. Now that I pay more attention to what is going on, I prefer not to use it, but am not stupid enough to turn down a job if the HO insists. So, why do I not prefer Behr. I did a huge ceiling that had the seems repaired. HO bought Kilz 2 (which I am also not a far of) and Behr premium plus. One coat of Kilz 2 and two coats of ceiling paint, I could still see the seams. I put a third coat of ceiling paint on the seems and they were still noticable. Also, overall the ceiling did not look smooth when the sunlight hit it the right way.
Due to the patches showing they had me paint the walls. I think I used Behr lower end paint. Some patches. Same color same sheen of Behr paint and the repair stuck out like a sore thumb. Although I not sure how long ago the walls had been painted. They had me paint the entire room. After rolling I would look back and there were roller marks all over the walls, which I had to go back and smooth out.

So, about a week ago I did a stairwell all with BM. Fresh Start primer, two coats of Muresco and the ceiling was beautiful. Had a drop of ceiling paint get on a wall that had been painted about a year ago, the HO still had the paint--BM Ben. I did little sanding, and I rolled the spot. I could not tell where the new coat began and the old one started.

Peter


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Craftworks said:


> I have seen exterior houses painted with it and sure it does last fine year after year. But so do other paints . I have used Behr plenty It still seems foreign to me it's just not an old friend ,I never look for it But it keeps finding me
> ----------------
> Now if you want to go old school with Behr - I still remember how bad the wall paint covered even with a primer the semi gloss had no working time and had the nerve to drip and not cover well also, this issue they did not address year after year . Finally after years I noticed " good coverage " in there advertising


 I'm a behr hunter.Seeker of it.:yes:


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

bubbt said:


> High guys.
> 
> I'm new around here, but I saw this one and couldn't pass it up.
> 
> ...


 All heresay.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Sorry my bad. hear-say.


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## Craftworks (Apr 2, 2013)

Yes bubbt for a nice consistent paint year after year Ben Moore #1 , Sure even Ben had a few years of teething pain when chemical changes by law surfaced in the 90's but some how it's always been a nice working paint. 

SW fine paint also . I was told by there reps there company makes paint for many other companies that many of us are not aware of. By the way SW was like first with a latex washable flat Ever clean  sure now all companies make a type like it and better . For me I like SW and if that was the only paint I could use no complaints .

Sears is a decent paint, I have used Weatherbeater Ultra Latex Exterior with great results. My only complaint was I wanted it in a 5 gal bucket .
I think SW makes paint for sears as told to me by SW rep. Regardless Ultra Latex in white looks new year after year it' stretches and stays flexible .

Given a choice of Behr or Walmart paint I'll go walmart with the respect of what walmart can equal in what they sell.


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

bubbt said:


> High guys.
> 
> I'm new around here, but I saw this one and couldn't pass it up.
> 
> ...


Yeah, ProMar 200, 400 and (700 - guaranteed 4 coat coverage), is amazing GARBAGE, "woops", I mean REAL paint.:jester:


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Steve Richards said:


> TJ's no longer allowed in HDs
> ...and I'm pretty sure if Vermont ever walked up to the HD paint counter, his shoes would start smoking.


I'm not sure but they might still have my store-made mug shot of me posted by the registers...
Glad there are still Lowes around. They got a lot of my business in the years past.

And they have better primers to choose from anyway.


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## Craftworks (Apr 2, 2013)

I'm gona " ADD COLOR THIS WEEKEND "

More saving *More doing *

Still did not get the moon shine


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

I have a question about beher. With ultra deep bases likes reds and orange, does it cover in two?

Spoiler: I'm not considering using behr


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## modernfinish (Mar 20, 2013)

This is the thread that never dies


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## Stonehampaintdept (Jan 10, 2013)

modernfinish said:


> this is the thread that never dies


Powered by


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## sully9er (Jan 24, 2011)

I don't understand people who think Behr is the greatest paint ever, and people who think its the worst paint ever. If you compare some Behr products to products of the similar price range, it can be better. We are talking price range here though. Behr PPU and PP do not compare to Emerald, Advanced, or Aura. 

I prefer Behr Alkyd over Pro-Classic Alkyd any day of the week. $30 a gallon vs $40 a gallon. Better hide, better coverage, better durability. This is one Behr paint that is hands down awesome.

Behr PPU at $25 a gallon for me. Good quality paint for the price, if you are used to it. Don't believe the hype at all on the label. Only thing it primes is bare drywall.

Behr PP at $20 a gallon. Better coverage and hide compared to products of the similar price. For me that is Promar 200. 

Behr Primers are mostly junk, don't waste your time on them.

Woodscapes is much better than the Behr Stains. Hands down. Behr solid weather proofing stain seems to cover like crap as is almost water compared with woodscapes. The Behr Solid Cover oil hybrid in the orange is prolly their best solid wood stain at 1/2 the price of their top dollar one.

The Behr Barn and Fence paint might actually be one of their better products. If you are doing a basic white fence, it gets the job done and covers wonderfully. Its held up on a fence I did four years ago that was in pitiful shape.

For exteriors, The PPU line isn't 1/2 bad for small areas or trim. Anything larger you will get flashing even with proper application.

We mainly use SW and some Behr products since no Benny Moore in town. I can tell you people are going to hate the Behr for no reason, because they heard bad things about it, its sold by HD, or because they haven't used the product properly (it does apply different). It isn't the best paint and it isn't the worst. If it fits your customers needs, and it works for you, use it. Behr doesn't fulfill most of our needs so we pick and choose when to use it. 

TL;DR

Behr isn't the best, its not the worst. It is a good product for its price range. They have some good products, they have some **** products. Use it when it fits.


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

TJ Paint said:


> I have a question about beher. With ultra *deep bases* likes reds and orange, does it cover in two?
> 
> Spoiler: I'm not considering using behr


Dad, I thought you tried these paints? I am confused, I'm having discussions with a bunch of men that never used this stuff - and they say it sux - oh boy? 

I used Behr Ultra last week. Sorry it's not Red or Orange. However, it is a deep base. Oh, and (1) coat almost did it, (cut once and roll twice). 

Your son... :notworthy:


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Kind of a bummer that the most popular thread is about the least popular paint. Getting old: yea


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

MuraCoat said:


> Dad, I thought you tried these paints? I am confused, I'm having discussions with a bunch of men that never used this stuff - and they say it sux - oh boy?
> 
> I used Behr Ultra last week. Sorry it's not Red or Orange. However, it is a deep base. Oh, and (1) coat almost did it, (cut once and roll twice).
> 
> Your son... :notworthy:


I'm not asking about brown. I'm wondering about reds and orange, the prototypical difficult coverage colors.

I have used behr, I didn't say I used deep base reds or orange.


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## DK Remodeling (Mar 22, 2013)

TJ Paint said:


> I'm not asking about brown. I'm wondering about reds and orange, the prototypical difficult coverage colors.
> 
> I have used behr, I didn't say I used deep base reds or orange.


It covers almost any color in two coats guaranteed.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

DK Remodeling said:


> It covers almost any color in two coats guaranteed.


I haven't used a paint in recent years that wouldn't. 

Hey DK


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## DK Remodeling (Mar 22, 2013)

joshmays1976 said:


> Hey DK


Hey, How you doing?


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

DK Remodeling said:


> Hey, How you doing?


Fine as frog hair thanks. 

Was hanging around this thread hoping something good would get going.


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## Craftworks (Apr 2, 2013)

QUOIT from *sully9er * The Behr Barn and Fence paint might actually be one of their better products. If you are doing a basic white fence, it gets the job done and covers wonderfully.
Yes that stuff is good . 

*sully9er *is correct they got a few winners.

The best part is the bad talk about Behr and all i see is the ad at the bottom 

" ADD COLOR THIS WEEKEND "
More saving More doing


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

TJ Paint said:


> I'm not asking about brown. I'm wondering about reds and orange, the prototypical difficult coverage colors.
> 
> I have used behr, I didn't say I used deep base reds or orange.


 The color in the photograph was a dark green not brown. Yes, and I understand, you said red and orange. Valspar paint actually has a red base and yellow base formula. also most red finish paints require a grey primer and three finish coats.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

DK Remodeling said:


> It covers almost any color in two coats guaranteed.


Sounds like a giant loophole to me. If most colors are guarenteed, some aren't. Guess if a color doesn't cover in two, it's not a color guarenteed. 

Most colors from most quality paints cover in two anyways. 

I guess I'll stick with aura for hard to cover colors. I know it's guarenteed by my own experience.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

TJ Paint said:


> Sounds like a giant loophole to me. If most colors are guarenteed, some aren't. Guess if a color doesn't cover in two, it's not a color guarenteed.
> 
> Most colors from most quality paints cover in two anyways.
> 
> I guess I'll stick with aura for hard to cover colors. I know it's guarenteed by my own experience.


Do what works for you TJ :thumbsup:


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

DK Remodeling said:


> It covers almost any color in two coats guaranteed.


Agree 100%!:yes:


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

This thread means nothing to me......


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> This thread means nothing to me......


It only remains true before posting in the thread that means nothing to you.


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## modernfinish (Mar 20, 2013)

Just going to post this to raise my post count


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

with 280 post i guess it just shows you can't kill a behr:whistling2:


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## modernfinish (Mar 20, 2013)

I behr witness to it behrly


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

You guys are behry funny


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## Painter-Aaron (Jan 17, 2013)

DK Remodeling said:


> It covers almost any color in two coats guaranteed.


60% of the time, it covers every time.


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## modernfinish (Mar 20, 2013)

I behrly get it


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> This thread means nothing to me......


You behr nothing!


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

modernfinish said:


> I behrly get it


Behr with us!:yes:


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

mudbone said:


> You behr nothing!


I'd rather talk about Killz........Just Behrly....


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