# Why you should never fill gaps in wood doors



## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

Had a customer last year who has a beautiful merbau/brazillian cherry front door (I think I posted pics of it last year). When I did it, he asked me to fill all the gaps in the door with filler. Against my repeated warnings he had me fill them all in. I made sure to put a disclaimer in my contract with him stating that "customer is advised there is a strong possibility of future cracking/finish failure around filled gaps - no warranty provided against failure due to the above". That still wasn't enough to discourage him from getting me to do the filling, so he signed and I did the deed. 

Well sure enough, I get a call on Friday and it's him saying the finish is failing around the areas where I filled. All I could do is tell him "I told you that was going to happen". 

I bet he doesn't disregard any more warnings from now on :no:

Anyhow, I explained to him once more why it happens; that wood is constantly moving - contracting and swelling with temperature/humidity etc. Sad to see this door looking like this just one year after finishing it, but at least I get to charge him for the repair work. 

For anyone else out there who does this kind of thing - there is a good reason gaps are left in those doors, and feel free to show these photos to your customers as to why they should never be filled.


----------



## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

Glad to see that you CYA! Could have turned out bad had you not .


----------



## BreatheEasyHP (Apr 24, 2011)

Lambrecht said:


> Glad to see that you CYA! Could have turned out bad had you not .


CYA is an acronym for what?


----------



## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

BreatheEasyHP said:


> CYA is an acronym for what?


Covered your Ass


----------



## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

We get these requests quite often.I'm sorry but I would never do anything that I know is wrong and have had a few customers ,who feel they know better,get a little Pissed. But the results are shown here.
I am a professional and will not allow someone tell us how to do something wrong.Even on there own home.
I can't tell you how many times people ask us to caulk their lap siding and I won't do that either!


----------



## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Walked away from a $8K exterior that the HO, (an attorney) wanted all the lap siding caulked. Even after I explained why to him. At the paint store one day and a guy comes up to me smirking, telling me "thanks" for the job, he didn't have a problem doing it for the HO. A little over a year later the attorney calls me and tells me all the problems that are going on with his siding and if I'd be interested in "fixing" it. I asked him what happened with the other painter? He said he was currently sueing him for damages and repair costs.....I walked away again. About 6 mos after that, I see the painter in the paint store and asked how the lawsuit was going? He turned beet-red. Found out later he lost.


----------



## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Wolfgang, thanks for your story. That story is the exact reason why its best not to act on a customers request that you know is wrong. _We _are the experts, and should know better. 

Rcon, not trying to bash you at all. I've done it myself in the past against my better judgement. But its stories like Wolfgangs that that have made me "see the light". :yes:


----------



## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Taking a job for the sake of taking a job doesn't work sometimes. Doing the right thing or going with a gut feeling has turned out to save me major hassles over the years. Not only can you learn from your own mistakes, but if you keep your eyes and ears open, you can learn from others.


----------



## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

Thanks for the responses guys - I hear ya. But this guy was insistent. I told him over and over and over again that it would fail, but he just didn't want to listen. Wish I would have had these pics to show him. At least the next time someone asks me to do this i'll be able to whip these out and show them why it's a bad idea. 

You're probably right though, I should have refused to do it since I knew better. 

Live n learn


----------



## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

> I made sure to put a disclaimer in my contract with him stating that "customer is advised there is a strong possibility of future cracking/finish failure around filled gaps - no warranty provided against failure due to the above".


I think rcon covered himself pretty good here.

What every happen to "The customer is always right?" lol j/k

Pat


----------



## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

PatsPainting said:


> I think rcon covered himself pretty good here.
> 
> Pat


I'm covered on this one for sure - pulled out the job file yesterday and reviewed all the emails, contract etc and there are warnings and disclaimers all over the place. Met with the guy Friday afternoon as well and he knows it isn't my fault, and still praised my work on his door - "you do really great work" he said, and also mentioned he had referred me to a few people. So I know this isn't an actual problem, just a small fix up that could have been prevented had he heeded my advice.


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Alec why not use a clear caulk on those joints?


----------



## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

straight_lines said:


> Alec why not use a clear caulk on those joints?


That's usually the way to do it, but he wanted them filled in.


----------



## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

Yes,not trying to bash you at all. Maybe educate though.I really don't care how much they insist and neither will their lawyer.


----------



## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

PatsPainting said:


> What every happen to "The customer is always right?" lol j/k
> 
> Pat


When my old buddies were mechanics at Libon Porsche/Audi they had a saying, "The customer is always right only with clothes and food"


----------



## BreatheEasyHP (Apr 24, 2011)

straight_lines said:


> Alec why not use a clear caulk on those joints?


Would there be a stainable clear caulk that would look alright?

Also, what caulk do you use? I'm about to refinish a door with a big crack in it.


----------



## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

B.E.

There is no way to stop single panels (or stiles) of wood from expanding and contracting with the changes of the seasons. Plywood does OK because of the opposing grain structure of it. 

No matter what you put in a crack or in the joints of panels and stiles, you are going to get expansion and contraction. In the winter, the gap will be at it's maximum, in the summer, anything put in that opening will be squeezed out. 

Of course an interior door in an environmentally controlled home where the heat and humidity do not have great swings, the wood will remain stable. 

If you fight nature, you will loose


----------



## TheRogueBristle (Mar 19, 2010)

daArch said:


> B.E.
> 
> There is no way to stop single panels (or stiles) of wood from expanding and contracting with the changes of the seasons. Plywood does OK because of the opposing grain structure of it.
> 
> ...



This is why you must use a flexible filler like caulk. I always cringe when I see guys using filler on 45'ed trim or the like. It's going to bet the first point of coating failure. Caulk is the solution, but if doesn't offer any hiding capability on wood components with a clear finish. Good construction, a stable environment and an acceptance of the natural qualities of wood help make an acceptable clear finish. Also, gaps are ok with me as long as they're even and not jagged or tapered, but it's not always easy to convince the customer of that.


----------



## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

BreatheEasyHP said:


> Would there be a stainable clear caulk that would look alright?
> 
> Also, what caulk do you use? I'm about to refinish a door with a big crack in it.


I've never found a stainable caulk.

Best stuff for this kind of thing is clear silicone caulk. Though you'd want to apply it after finishing and NOT before. (You will have mega issues with your clear if you silicone it first).


----------



## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

TheRogueBristle said:


> This is why you must use a flexible filler like caulk. I always cringe when I see guys using filler on 45'ed trim or the like. It's going to bet the first point of coating failure. Caulk is the solution, but if doesn't offer any hiding capability on wood components with a clear finish. Good construction, a stable environment and an acceptance of the natural qualities of wood help make an acceptable clear finish. Also, gaps are ok with me as long as they're even and not jagged or tapered, but it's not always easy to convince the customer of that.


Rogue,

I understand that if one is going to fill gaps in moving parts, the filler should be flexible, as should the coating sticking to that flexible filler.

But I have a question about what happens to that flexible filler in July that is applied in February. Does not the summer humidity swell the wood? Does not the gap now swell closed? Does not the flexible filler get squeezed out forming an unsightly bulge ?? At least that is what I have seen. 

Yes I suppose one solution is to fill the gap in the summer when the wood is swelled to its max. Unfortunately: 1) there is no gap to fill. 2) Most painters are catching up on exterior work in the summer.


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

daArch said:


> If you fight nature, you will loose


This is Quote of the Month material for sure, perhaps even for the year.

Just saying.:thumbsup:


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

BreatheEasyHP said:


> Would there be a stainable clear caulk that would look alright?
> 
> Also, what caulk do you use? I'm about to refinish a door with a big crack in it.





Rcon said:


> I've never found a stainable caulk.
> 
> Best stuff for this kind of thing is clear silicone caulk. Though you'd want to apply it after finishing and NOT before. (You will have mega issues with your clear if you silicone it first).


I use Lexel by sashco. Same makers of big stretch. 

It stays clear and expands like a mofo, it is also paintable. I try and avoid silicone.


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

straight_lines said:


> I use Lexel by sashco. Same makers of big stretch.
> 
> It stays clear and expands like a mofo, it is also paintable. I try and avoid silicone.


its paintable but is it stainable?


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

IDK but if its clear the stain underneath will show.


----------

