# USG first coat: is this normal performance?



## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

I'm applying usg first coat for the first time. The only supply yard that had it in stock kept it in a questionable warehouse. It may just be old or since the warehouse has only radiant heaters it may have froze at some point. The 5 gallon buckets were nicely covered in fork lift exhaust. 

I never applied this product before so I don't know how it's suppose to apply. 

I was cutting and rolling yesterday. It brushed okay once thinned a bit. It still didn't really level and leaves heavy brush marks if you are not diligent. 

At the same time rollinfg it with a 3/8 prodooz had it spattering and raining on me over head and while doing walls regardless of speed and or loading. I mean a nice fine mist. 
My impression was it was suppose to be a thicker high build pva. It looks decent when dry today and sands pretty good. It still leaves rough stipple with the 3/8" vs decent paint an a 1/2" which tends to lay down. It's sanded well so I don't mind. 

Anyone with similar experience? It's a nice price point. 

This is over level 5 drywall.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

sayn3ver said:


> I'm applying usg first coat for the first time. The only supply yard that had it in stock kept it in a questionable warehouse. It may just be old or since the warehouse has only radiant heaters it may have froze at some point. The 5 gallon buckets were nicely covered in fork lift exhaust.
> 
> I never applied this product before so I don't know how it's suppose to apply.
> 
> ...


One, it's not a PVA. Two, the TDS recommends 1/8 -1/4 nap.


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## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

It's base is vinyl acrylic. I read the tds a while ago before I only remember no larger than 1/2" nap. 

I'll switch to a 1/4" which should help with the stipple. Still thought it would be thicker considering what it's marketed to do.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

sayn3ver said:


> It's base is vinyl acrylic. I read the tds a while ago before I only remember no larger than 1/2" nap.
> 
> I'll switch to a 1/4" which should help with the stipple. Still thought it would be thicker considering what it's marketed to do.


There is confusion between PVA Polyvinyl Acrylic and Polyvinyl Acetate. The latter was traditionally used over untreated joint compound. 

The TDS for the material is readily available online, and provides all of the SBV%. The one I read did say to not exceed 1/2" nap, but recommended between 1/8 and 1/4.


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## pacific paint (Nov 21, 2015)

I think you got some old stock. I read the limitations on the label, aging as USG puts it seems to be a problem. Take it back you should not be having these problems with this type of primer. This a simple vinyl acrylic to even the surface (cheap flat paint)


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## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

Picked up a 3/16 woven synthetic 9" to see if it would make a difference. Stipple is obviously more acceptable. It still mists/ spatters when you roll, even ridiculously slow. It appears thick but performs like a thin product. 

The other thing I'm noticing is it seems when you go to lay it off on the final pass down the nap is pulling it up off the drywall. 

I dusted then damp wiped everything down so i don't think it's a prep issue as this is the same way I always do. 

Never had an issue with primer before.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

I thought those surfacer primers were made to be sprayed? I can't imagine rolling drywall with a 1/8-1/4" nap. Not much of it anyways.


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## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

First coat is their primer. Brush roll or spray. 

Tuffhide is their level 5 surfacer which is applied by the big spray rig only.


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## Scannell Painting (Sep 25, 2010)

Ive only sprayed & backrolled with 18" 1/2" nap, no problems.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Your biggest problem is using a high build primer over a level 5 finish.This 1st coat primer acts as a filler and helps blend the porosity of the mud and face paper.When walls are skimmed and this applied overall makes for a rough finish.Builds on top.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I may have been inclined to apply a PVA sealer in this situation. Followed by whatever primer, or finish.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Just out of curiosity, isn't that USG Firstcoat primer about the cheapest drywall primer there is? If so then I would say yes, it is normal.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> Just out of curiosity, isn't that USG Firstcoat primer about the cheapest drywall primer there is? If so then I would say yes, it is normal.


Well, according to you, and that Superpaintingchick from up the state block of me, I thought PVA sealer was the cheapest treatment for bare drywall and joint compound.


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## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

I cracked a second 5 of the stuff. No difference. :whistling2:

It definitely likes it when you lay it on thick and don't play with it much. Well, as thick as a 1/4" roller will allow. 

I sanded with 150 and second coated a couple ceilings and they came out looking great. Really sands well if you let it dry overnight. 

As to the wrong product for the job, I don't understand how its a high build but is suggested to be applied with a 1/8-1/4" nap? It really doesn't build at all. 

I don't think I'd use it again for what it's worth. Nothing ventured nothing gained though. Even if I'm late to the party.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

CApainter said:


> Well, according to you, and that Superpaintingchick from up the state block of me, I thought PVA sealer was the cheapest treatment for bare drywall and joint compound.


Lol....It is CA. pva is cheap and Education is expensive sometimes. Primer (not pva) is also cheap compared to the risks/rewards of pva.

Another fine example of why I do not use pva. Ever.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Great feed back on the product. Thanks!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> Well, according to you, and that Superpaintingchick from up the state block of me, I thought PVA sealer was the cheapest treatment for bare drywall and joint compound.


AGAIN! I said "drywall primer" not PVA "sealer". They are not in reality the same thing. A drywall "primer" is typically much more heavily pigmented and has more solids then a PVa "sealer". In a true PVA "sealer" the only pigmentation that's in it is to ensure even coverage. In other words it is only pigmented so you can see that it has been applied. Otherwise it would be just like applying water.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

lilpaintchic said:


> Lol....It is CA. pva is cheap and Education is expensive sometimes. Primer (not pva) is also cheap compared to the risks/rewards of pva.
> 
> Another fine example of why I do not use pva. Ever.


But it wasn't PVA he used. It was drywall primer. You know.."PRIMER" like you've been advocating. LOL!


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> AGAIN! I said "drywall primer" not PVA "sealer". They are not in reality the same thing. A drywall "primer" is typically much more heavily pigmented and has more solids then a PVa "sealer". In a true PVA "sealer" the only pigmentation that's in it is to ensure even coverage. In other words it is only pigmented so you can see that it has been applied. Otherwise it would be just like applying water.


So it's his "Primer" that's acting all kooky. Not PVA, right?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

In other words, there is no evidence of a PVA failure in this thread, right? lol.



YEA! I WON!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> So it's his "Primer" that's acting all kooky. Not PVA, right?


yes. Although some more unscrupulous paint brands will call "primer" a PVA sealer because to them it does the same thing. Although technically it doesn't.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> In other words, there is no evidence of a PVA failure in this thread, right? lol.
> 
> 
> 
> YEA! I WON!


No. PVA is not part of this thread. Except those people who think of them as one in the same.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PT sometimes reminds me of HALO.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

sayn3ver said:


> I'm applying usg first coat for the first time. The only supply yard that had it in stock kept it in a questionable warehouse. It may just be old or since the warehouse has only radiant heaters it may have froze at some point. The 5 gallon buckets were nicely covered in fork lift exhaust.
> 
> I never applied this product before so I don't know how it's suppose to apply.
> 
> ...




Usg doesn't make paint (that I know of. It's a drywall company. 
And I don't think pva can "fail"...it's just a big pita for the rewards which are negligible imo...


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## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

I'm aware first coat doesn't seal. Says right on the front of the bucket. More preceisly I was wondering if the product had froze at one point, what would it look or perform like? 

I realize now va is not pva.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

i've seen it get really lumpy...like old milk.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

lilpaintchic said:


> Usg doesn't make paint (that I know of. It's a drywall company.
> And I don't think pva can "fail"...it's just a big pita for the rewards which are negligible imo...


Are you referring to Polyvinyl acrylic or Polyvinyl acetate?


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

sayn3ver said:


> I'm aware first coat doesn't seal. Says right on the front of the bucket. More preceisly I was wondering if the product had froze at one point, what would it look or perform like?
> 
> I realize now va is not pva.


If it had frozen it would look like lilpaintchic says, like curdled milk or cottage cheese. Sometime paints and primers will also have much smaller "curd" to use a cheese term, which would mean smaller pieces that won't breakup when shaken or stirred. Other times it will just me one big mass of solids on the bottom of the can that can't be stirred back into the liquids.

Chances are from my personal experiences with selling it, and depending on where you bought it, that it had been on the shelf past it's shelf life. That could explain what you described without it having been frozen. The effects of both can be quite similar in certain "types" of products. (ie, "economy" lines)


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

CApainter said:


> Are you referring to Polyvinyl acrylic or Polyvinyl acetate?



i'm not takin the bait. LOL you can have the "PVA" win on this one, CA. My hat's off to you.

I will say that unless it is an actual PRIMER made by a PAINT manufacturer you will never find it on my job. LOL PVA in either form produces the same pita in my NSHO. To each their own though...PVA to your little hearts content CA. LOLOL



to the OP...I'm sorry if i seemed too forward with you, my comments were actually more toward CA as we had a LENGHTY debate in another thread here about a week ago. Just taking a few more jabs..lol

You'll have your own experiences with it and draw your own conclusions.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

lilpaintchic said:


> i'm not takin the bait. LOL *you can have the "PVA" win on this one, CA. My hat's off to you.*
> 
> I will say that unless it is an actual PRIMER made by a PAINT manufacturer you will never find it on my job. LOL PVA in either form produces the same pita in my NSHO. To each their own though...PVA to your little hearts content CA. LOLOL
> 
> ...


Just wanted to record this for posterity. My day's starting off great so far!


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