# Ben moor paint help



## disantodrywall&paint (Feb 13, 2011)

ok so i met with a customer yesterday that said they were looking at using behr paint to paint their house. they said i can use what i want as long as it is no or low voc paint. I said that i use ben moore. I usually use aura, but thats around 78 bucks a gallon. is their something else i could use thats a little cheaper but around close to the same quality? I gotta try to bid this today and my paint store is closed. I was thinking or trying regal or something? thanks for the help


----------



## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

disantodrywall&paint said:


> ok so i met with a customer yesterday that said they were looking at using behr paint to paint their house. they said i can use what i want as long as it is no or low voc paint. I said that i use ben moore. I usually use aura, but thats around 78 bucks a gallon. is their something else i could use thats a little cheaper but around close to the same quality? I gotta try to bid this today and my paint store is closed. I was thinking or trying regal or something? thanks for the help


You can use natura which is a little cheaper than aura and it's a true zero VOC. You can also try bm ecospec which runs around $40 a gal. I used it in a couple dialysis centers and it seemed like pretty good stuff.


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Ben is low VOC, Ultra Spec is 0 VOC. Ben is a step below Regal in cost, but still a great paint. Ultra Spec is a step below Ben in cost. Both products are my 2 top sellers, they are by far (IMO) the best cost->value products that Moore's makes. Its a lot of bang for the buck so to say. Both of those products I mentioned are superior to any Behr product out there.


----------



## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

NCPaint1 said:


> Ben is low VOC, Ultra Spec is 0 VOC. Ben is a step below Regal in cost, but still a great paint. Ultra Spec is a step below Ben in cost. Both products are my 2 top sellers, they are by far (IMO) the best cost->value products that Moore's makes. Its a lot of bang for the buck so to say. Both of those products I mentioned are superior to any Behr product out there.


See?
I was gonna reply to this guy, but I knew you were on, so I remained silent.
It's nice to be on a board long enough to know your place.

You did a nice job too, briggs...


----------



## disantodrywall&paint (Feb 13, 2011)

so the customers wife told me that whoever had the house before them used wall mart paint, so its basicaly primed she said, so i figured if i used aura or regal i wouldnt have to prime becuase they used flat white on the walls. Im trying to sell them on regal more than aura because of the fact they want custom mixed light colors. I dont know what they have picked yet but ill find out tonight. or tommorow.


----------



## disantodrywall&paint (Feb 13, 2011)

NCPaint1 said:


> Ben is low VOC, Ultra Spec is 0 VOC. Ben is a step below Regal in cost, but still a great paint. Ultra Spec is a step below Ben in cost. Both products are my 2 top sellers, they are by far (IMO) the best cost->value products that Moore's makes. Its a lot of bang for the buck so to say. Both of those products I mentioned are superior to any Behr product out there.


i have used ultra spec a couple of times and i didnt really care for it, but cost might come in to play here as well so i might try Ben and see how that works if they want something a little cheaper then regal as well. thanks


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

disantodrywall&paint said:


> so the customers wife told me that whoever had the house before them used wall mart paint, so its basicaly primed she said, so i figured if i used aura or regal i wouldnt have to prime becuase they used flat white on the walls. Im trying to sell them on regal more than aura because of the fact they want custom mixed light colors. I dont know what they have picked yet but ill find out tonight. or tommorow.


Regal is good no doubt. It just comes down to what they want. Regal Matte is awesome, and the Pearl is excellent for woodwork. Its low VOC though, not 0. Regal is under 50g/L per gal.


----------



## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

NCPaint1 said:


> Regal is good no doubt. It just comes down to what they want. Regal Matte is awesome, and the Pearl is excellent for woodwork. Its low VOC though, not 0. Regal is under 50g/L per gal.


How does ecospec fit into the whole bm equation?


----------



## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

Hey briggs...not to hijack this thread (I would never do that), but it seems like the OP question has been answered.

Is 82 the year you started your business, were born..or something else?
It's not just you, I wonder that a lot about people w/numbers in their SN's.


----------



## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Steve Richards said:


> Hey briggs...not to hijack this thread (I would never do that), but it seems like the OP question has been answered.
> 
> Is 82 the year you started your business, were born..or something else?
> It's not just you, I wonder that a lot about people w/numbers in their SN's.


Yup it's the year I was born 7-11-82. The business was started in '78 by my old man.


----------



## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

i used "ben" last week and i was disappointed. the stuff goes on like glue,rolls like glue.very thick stuff. i had to water it down or add conditioner to it.you shouldn't have to add anything to $40/gallon paint.the new spec is a decent contractor line paint. i wouldn't exactly call it washable.

i'm not saying that 'ben' is a bad paint as it looks nice when applied correctly.it just doesn't spread that far because it is so thick and it rolls like glue if you don't cut it down 5% with water or conditioner.. i hate the hassle of doing that every gallon.


----------



## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Stick with gentle Ben the" behr.":yes:


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Rbriggs82 said:


> How does ecospec fit into the whole bm equation?


Eco Spec tints on the old system, the universal tint system. Not a true 0 VOC product. Now depending on where you live, Eco Spec could tint on Gennex, but by me its a dying product. Ultra Spec being the replacement. Ultra Spec has actually killed 2 lines (which is good) Super Spec and Eco Spec. You get both of those product combined in Ultra Spec. A good MPI tested product that is also a true 0 VOC.


----------



## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

NCPaint1 said:


> Eco Spec tints on the old system, the universal tint system. Not a true 0 VOC product. Now depending on where you live, Eco Spec could tint on Gennex, but by me its a dying product. Ultra Spec being the replacement. Ultra Spec has actually killed 2 lines (which is good) Super Spec and Eco Spec. You get both of those product combined in Ultra Spec. A good MPI tested product that is also a true 0 VOC.


Oh ok. My local bm only has a limited amount of gennex products and the lines they do carry they have to be sent from another store location. I thought Eco spec was a gennex product because I had to have it sent from the other location like I do with aura and natura.


----------



## wills fresh coat (Nov 17, 2011)

disantodrywall&paint said:


> ok so i met with a customer yesterday that said they were looking at using behr paint to paint their house. they said i can use what i want as long as it is no or low voc paint. I said that i use ben moore. I usually use aura, but thats around 78 bucks a gallon. is their something else i could use thats a little cheaper but around close to the same quality? I gotta try to bid this today and my paint store is closed. I was thinking or trying regal or something? thanks for the help


Go to Ppg and save yourself a ton of cash......it's an interior so you don't need to use a paint that cost over $15 a gal


----------



## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

wills fresh coat said:


> Go to Ppg and save yourself a ton of cash......it's an interior so you don't need to use a paint that cost over $15 a gal


Yeah last time I used Manor Hall I was very pleased with it. excellent bang for the buck. it's better than 'Ben' for sure.


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

wills fresh coat said:


> Go to Ppg and save yourself a ton of cash......it's an interior so you don't need to use a paint that cost over $15 a gal


That's quality....$15/gal..... lmfao


----------



## davedrew (Mar 8, 2011)

disantodrywall&paint said:


> is their something else i could use thats a little cheaper


Bid it to use the expensive paint and let the homeowner know that's what you're doing. I would call them to let them know about the paint cost or add a note in on the bid explaining the cost.

*The bottom line*: if the people are going to accept you for the job, it probably won't matter if the price is higher than other bids. People hire painters mostly because they like you and they feel comfortable with the way you operate. 

I never had a problem with high bids and I always used the most expensive paints, but I made sure the homeowner knew that before I bid the job.

You could also give the homeowner two bids and explain both options.

_This is the bid with the paint you would like me to use at $x per gallon ... and this is a bid using another brand paint ...._


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

For walls, I would choose promar zero all day long over ben.

Deep base colors, aura. 

I've used many gallons of both promar zero and ben, and I don't find much performance difference between the two, yet promar zero is cheaper, so that means it has more value. 

Regal select is def a step up from ben. 

I've been using a lot of natura lately and it performs real well after thinning it down (approx 6oz/gal). 

I don't see how your price for aura is so high. That seems crazy.


----------



## disantodrywall&paint (Feb 13, 2011)

my paint supplier says aura is 75 bucks a gallon my cost. i dont knwo why im going to look at the other ben moore store tommorow.


----------



## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

Pretty steep. I pay less than 60, and I am no big shot. Are you in Canada?


----------



## disantodrywall&paint (Feb 13, 2011)

no im in maine. im going to have my wife call tommorow and pretend shes just trying to find paint for her house and see what he says, if hes to high then im going to the other ben moore store because everyones telling me to do service with them because he will help me out more and treats his customers better then the guy im with now


----------



## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

That sounds like a plan. Its about 60, +/- at a ACE hardware (minimal discount) in Maine, and low/mid 50s at a real paint store in southern Maine. All that being said, BEN is good at 30ish and I keep hearing about SW ProMar 0 VOC at mid 20s being really good. Like others on PT, I use Aura in deep base, or exterior jobs. Its usually just too much to lay out when there are other choices.


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

You guys comparing Ben to PM zero...please stop. Two different products. If you must compare, please compare PM zero to Ultra Spec 500. Ben is not zero VOC....PM zero is. Ben is not spec'd as a commercial product PM zero is.

Two totally different products Ben and PM zero, they don't line up. Ultra Spec 500 and PM zero are a closer comparison.


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

NCPaint1 said:


> You guys comparing Ben to PM zero...please stop. Two different products. If you must compare, please compare PM zero to Ultra Spec 500. Ben is not zero VOC....PM zero is. Ben is not spec'd as a commercial product PM zero is.
> 
> Two totally different products Ben and PM zero, they don't line up. Ultra Spec 500 and PM zero are a closer comparison.


I'm just stating my opinion after using many gallons of each in the field. 

Promar zero performs as well as ben for walls imo. If that's the case for my experience, I'm not sure I wanna try utraspec. 

I like using bm products but unless we are talking about regal and aura, I think promar zero outperforms up through ben. I havn't used ultraspec yet but if promar zero is just as good as ben, I'm not sure what I would gain from ultraspec unless its cheaper than promar zero and performs as good.

Not trying to argue, just stating my experience.


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

TJ, I understand what you're saying. For people learning the products such as the OP, its important to compare apples to apples. Keeping track of one manufacturers products is difficult enough, cross referencing them into competitors is another challenge all in itself.


----------



## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

NCPaint1 said:


> TJ, I understand what you're saying. For people learning the products such as the OP, its important to compare apples to apples. Keeping track of one manufacturers products is difficult enough, cross referencing them into competitors is another challenge all in itself.


i think tj was very clear. he rated the promar zero as 'just as good" as ben and most agree. unlike you tj has applied countless gallons of both products and can make an educated opinion. you sell paint and don't apply it. you obviously over-rate that product because you sell it and it puts food on your table.

therefore promar zero is a better bargain than ben. it would be foolish to pay so much more for ben to get a similar paint.


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Xmark said:


> i think tj was very clear. he rated the promar zero as 'just as good" as ben and most agree. unlike you tj has applied countless gallons of both products and can make an educated opinion. you sell paint and don't apply it. you obviously over-rate that product because you sell it and it puts food on your table.
> 
> therefore promar zero is a better bargain than ben. it would be foolish to pay so much more for ben to get a similar paint.


You know nothing about me. You don't know what I've applied or haven't. Stop assuming things, it just makes you look foolish. Read some of my posts before you make an uninformed assumption. I give opinions about many different products, many of which I don't sell. 

Besides, why would I push products on here? None of you are my customers so honestly I could care less what you purchase, you aren't affecting my wallet in any way shape or form.

*** except for Tommy, he's the only one here who's made a purchase from me***


----------



## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

NCPaint1 said:


> You know nothing about me. You don't know what I've applied or haven't. Stop assuming things, it just makes you look foolish. Read some of my posts before you make an uninformed assumption. I give opinions about many different products, many of which I don't sell.
> 
> Besides, why would I push products on here? None of you are my customers so honestly I could care less what you purchase, you aren't affecting my wallet in any way shape or form.
> 
> *** except for Tommy, he's the only one here who's made a purchase from me***


i'm 100% certain that you have not applied more promar ,ben aura,spec,regal (and countless other paints) than me or tj or most painting contractors. this is not an assumption,i'd bet my life on it. painting your own house once or twice,or your store a few times over the last decade is a very small sample size. often times you need to use a product line several times to truly understand the idiosyncrasies of a paint,including a learning curve with some like aura. lines of paints often change from year to year due to the manufacturer 'tweaking' the formulas. it's a constant ever changing landscape and benjamin moore in particular comes out with new lines of paints regularly.

you have no idea who is reading this message board and who might be buying paint from you that could be influenced by Paint Talk.. the popularity of a benjamin moore line of paint around the country directly impacts your bottom line. you are not selling paint in a vacuum.


----------



## NACE (May 16, 2008)

Ben is the old Regal before it (Regal)went 100% acrylic. It's (Ben's) viscosities were changed to accept Waterborne Colorant. Ben has similar application and handling characteristics, spread rates etc to the old vinyl/acrylic, but has better hide and touch up because of the Gennex Colorant. The sheens match the PM 0 on the Ultra Spec line better then Ben. My opinion is that PM and US are premium commercial and Ben is more residential. We have switched a very large commercial/industrial contractor from PM 200, GP Ultra Hide, and PPG Speed Hide and BM Super Spec to Ultra Spec. They are getting better spread and production rates, pricing and overall better hide especially in the low sheen. I like the handling of Ben for brush and roll and US for spray. Having very good results with Ultra Spec Exterior too.


----------



## madochio (Oct 26, 2011)

Xmark said:


> i'm 100% certain that you have not applied more promar ,ben aura,spec,regal (and countless other paints) than me or tj or most painting contractors. this is not an assumption,i'd bet my life on it. painting your own house once or twice,or your store a few times over the last decade is a very small sample size. often times you need to use a product line several times to truly understand the idiosyncrasies of a paint,including a learning curve with some like aura. lines of paints often change from year to year due to the manufacturer 'tweaking' the formulas. it's a constant ever changing landscape and benjamin moore in particular comes out with new lines of paints regularly.
> 
> you have no idea who is reading this message board and who might be buying paint from you that could be influenced by Paint Talk.. the popularity of a benjamin moore line of paint around the country directly impacts your bottom line. you are not selling paint in a vacuum.


anyone who works in or owns a store and has some pride in what they sell and do will try the "others". i sell ICI, Ben Moore,Valspar, a Local Brew etc... in my own home i have PPG, SW, and yes ever behr. does that mean i know these products? no, but i used them to "try them out". That and the word of mouth is how I can safely tell you what "others" are out there and how they rate with what i have, It is my job to know this.If i do not do this it makes me look like someone who is just working for a pay check. After reading many post post by NC i can safely say he knows what he is talking about. NACE as well. 

as for paint talk that part is true i have met a number of new people that i sell to now as well. keep it clean, keep it fun and informative you never know who is reading these, you next supplier, or clients. :thumbup:


----------



## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Xmark said:


> i'm 100% certain that you have not applied more promar ,ben aura,spec,regal (and countless other paints) than me or tj or most painting contractors. this is not an assumption,i'd bet my life on it. painting your own house once or twice,or your store a few times over the last decade is a very small sample size. often times you need to use a product line several times to truly understand the idiosyncrasies of a paint,including a learning curve with some like aura. lines of paints often change from year to year due to the manufacturer 'tweaking' the formulas. it's a constant ever changing landscape and benjamin moore in particular comes out with new lines of paints regularly.
> 
> you have no idea who is reading this message board and who might be buying paint from you that could be influenced by Paint Talk.. the popularity of a benjamin moore line of paint around the country directly impacts your bottom line. you are not selling paint in a vacuum.


I respect the opinion of my main supplier, the local BM paint store owner. Mainly because he is on the front lines, looking for and assessing feedback from all the various contractor customers he deals with every day. After many years of working in the paint industry and selling painting products, his overall product knowledge at least as good and probably better than my own. I think NCpaint has also displayed a similar level of product knowledge based on his posts on this site.


----------



## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> I respect the opinion of my main supplier, the local BM paint store owner. Mainly because he is on the front lines, looking for and assessing feedback from all the various contractor customers he deals with every day. After many years of working in the paint industry and selling painting products, his overall product knowledge at least as good and probably better than my own. I think NCpaint has also displayed a similar level of product knowledge based on his posts on this site.



Pretty much what I was thinking also, I have a great store with guys who have been working there for over 20 years. They know what they are doing and I listen when they talk about products.

However this is just my store, I can see other stores who have kids or new guys always working where I might not be all that interested in what they have to say. So it just depends on the store I guess. We'd all be lucky if our local stores were owned by NCPaint1. He obviously has a passion about his business.

Pat


----------



## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> I respect the opinion of my main supplier, the local BM paint store owner. Mainly because he is on the front lines, looking for and assessing feedback from all the various contractor customers he deals with every day. After many years of working in the paint industry and selling painting products, his overall product knowledge at least as good and probably better than my own. I think NCpaint has also displayed a similar level of product knowledge based on his posts on this site.


clap.clap,clap.:notworthy:

very touching story.

back to the original question which was hijacked by some rather awesome posters defending their buddy.

Ben paint is overrated and similar to promar zero. that is the topic.

the only question is whether 'ben' is more washable than promar zero. show me tests that proves 'ben' to be tougher and more durable.application wise and price, promar zero has 'ben' beat by a wide margin. now if you painters have no problem thinning out 'ben' gallon after gallon in order to roll that glue,then have at it. once thinned it is a decent mid range paint. i have spread hundreds of gallons of 'ben' over the years because my interior designer insisted on using benjamin moore.

at the very least both paints are in the same mid range category. the big difference is that ben is very over-priced at $39/gallon {$50 retail} in canada.

it would be foolish to spend more for a similar quality paint.


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Xmark said:


> clap.clap,clap.:notworthy:
> 
> very touching story.
> 
> ...


You haven't the slightest idea what you are talking about. Your post right there proves it. 

Now, let's race my Corvette against your Cobalt..... they're the same right? Wait, the Corvette costs more....but it has 4 wheels and a motor so its the same comparison as a Cobalt....

As far as the "buddy" thing. The "regulars" disagree here all the time, but they (usually  ) have a comprehensive, rational, fact based discussion. Your "claims" are unfounded and off base. Your comparison is wrong. So even though the members here may disagree at times, they can collectively determine when someone is full of it.


----------



## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

Xmark - you sure have been grumpy lately, sheeze relax a bit. Everything will be ok. Nobody is going to make you use ben over PM.

I really like ben and it just might replace my goto paint for interiors which would replace the regal line. I'm having a tough time trying to figure out the difference between the two except a few bucks in price.

Pat


----------



## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

PatsPainting said:


> Xmark - you sure have been grumpy lately, sheeze relax a bit. Everything will be ok. Nobody is going to make you use ben over PM.
> 
> I really like ben and it just might replace my goto paint for interiors which would replace the regal line. I'm having a tough time trying to figure out the difference between the two except a few bucks in price.
> 
> Pat


i'm just offering my opinion on the subject. no biggie but i can see why nc is defending his #1 seller. just giving some folks an option when saving money is a consideration.

actually my go-to wall paint has been dulux lifemaster eggshell this year. great bang for the buck,has a beautiful soft sheen,spreads like butter and is tough and durable. love it


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

I have to say I like regal select a lot better than ben. 

The eggshell in RS seems to have less sheen than ben. 

This thread brought up a subject that I would like to explore: NACE mentioned he felt that Promar zero and ultraspec were geared more for commercial and ben was geared for residential. What is the basis for this? Does this imply that promar zero and US are deemed less durable than ben? 

Just curious what's behind this impression. 

I haven't found a significant difference between ben and promar zero yet. Both perform like a good quality 100% acrylic should.


----------



## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

TJ Paint said:


> This thread brought up a subject that I would like to explore: NACE mentioned he felt that Promar zero and ultraspec were geared more for commercial and ben was geared for residential. What is the basis for this? Does this imply that promar zero and US are deemed less durable than ben?
> 
> Just curious what's behind this impression.



That's a great question.

pat


----------



## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

PatsPainting said:


> That's a great question.
> 
> pat


 
I've been told that Ben was created to target cost conscious home owners with a gennex paint, and US targets contractors.


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> I've been told that Ben was created to target cost conscious home owners with a gennex paint, and US targets contractors.


But what is the basis for the distinction? Price? Value? 

Let's add promar zero to the discussion. Like I said, I haven't found a material difference in quality between PM0 and Ben yet. I'm not too concerned about US.


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Ben is an entry level premium Paint & Primer. Ultra Spec is not paint & primer. Ultra Spec is 0 VOC while Ben is not. Ultra Spec is MPI rated, Ben is not. Ultra Spec is available in 5 gloss levels, Ben is available in 3.

So the differences are there. Both retail and contractors purchase both products, it just depends on the application and what you need to do as to which product to choose.

PM 200 zero is a good product. I've used some but not a ton. Most people seem to like it, and some have a great price while others don't. So TJ has a great price on it, no foul there. Some of my customer get Ben for less than PM 200 zero, and Ultra Spec for less than that. 

Every market is different so that why its important to compare products equally. Prices vary, products and specs are the same. That's why cross comparing products needs to be on par with each other.


----------



## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

TJ Paint said:


> But what is the basis for the distinction? Price? Value?
> 
> Let's add promar zero to the discussion. Like I said, I haven't found a material difference in quality between PM0 and Ben yet. I'm not too concerned about US.


If you look at the sell sheets for US and PM they are targeting the commercial market. I think basically that's the distinction in target markets. I don't think it means the residential paint is more scrubbable merely by being labeled residential. I have very little experience with Ben, wasn't very happy on the one job we tried it on. Have used PM 0 voc a lot and works great. Have started using US interior and exterior and like it so far. I believe they are both rated with scrub cycle tests etc regarding durability. They are both 0 voc of course. I think BM has the advantage with the gennex colorants, though the new SW color ants may change that.


----------



## matt19422 (Oct 2, 2009)

First, you should meet your local BM rep, your pricing does not reflect someone who regularly uses Aura at the price your stating.

Second, It is good practice to give your customers sale sheet brochures from BM that will let them do some of there own home work after you recommend a specific product for there project.

Lastly, demo all the said products so you van make an informed decision rather then going by what anyone else says:thumbsup:


----------



## NACE (May 16, 2008)

Having worked for BM for 25 years I am very familiar with their products, formulation strategy, and marketing. The commercial products like Super Hide, Super Spec, Ultra Spec, and Super Spec HP are designed and built for the commercial paint market. The primary function according to the way BM thinks, is to hide, touch up, have good spray and roll characteristics, and be economical without sacrificing spread rates. Some agree BM has achieved this and some don't. BM sells to the independent retailer who primarily serves the residential repaint, pot and brush painter, DIY, homeowner, and the architectural and design community. These products are designed to have good handling characteristics, brush and roll, hide, durability, wash ability, high spread rate and attractive packaging. Ben, Regal, Regal Select, Natura, Aura, Arborcoat, Concepts all are built primarily for this demographic. Whatever product you choose for your particular segment, whether it's BM, SW, PPG, Glidden Professional, etc really is only a matter of what best fits your business model and the application scenario. BM does not build scrub cycles into its commercial products as its not a feature that market generally cares about. I doubt SW, or any other does too in its premium commercial and mid tier commercials products. Don't think a 200,000 sq ft warehouse owner cares about spatter resistance and washability. If you like a product and it makes you money, then that's what fits your model and feeds your family. I don't like product comparisons because most times your not comparing apples to apples, market segments, business models, or experience. I have been painting and in the paint business for over 40 years now. I know just about every rep and every company and it's products very well. Out of respect, never bash a product or paint company.(except Behr) Always express the features and benefits that fit your business model and how it's going to make you money, better you as a brand, get you repeat satisfied customers, and grow your business. You never know when you might be working for or using the company or products you once spoke poorly about.


----------



## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Out of respect, never bash a product or paint company.(except Behr) Always express the features and benefits that fit your business model and how it's going to make you money, better you as a brand, get you repeat satisfied customers, and grow your business. You never know when you might be working for or using the company or products you once spoke poorly about.[/QUOTE]

Good point Having been a long time member of our local Pdca I can say one of the things I've learned to appreciate from the good reps is that they never bash another company, in fact they never say a bad thing about anyone. And yes it's true that many of the them have worked for many of the companies. The best reps go out of there way to help me and offer great service, and occasionally provide leads.


----------



## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

TJ Paint said:


> For walls, I would choose promar zero all day long over ben.
> 
> Deep base colors, aura.
> 
> I've used many gallons of both promar zero and ben, and I don't find much performance difference between the two, yet promar zero is cheaper, so that means it has more value.


$25 a gallon :thumbup: I've been using it quite a bit lately :thumbsup:


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Woodland said:


> $25 a gallon :thumbup: I've been using it quite a bit lately :thumbsup:


So is Ultra Spec 

I label the PM Zero the "Hydrox™ cookie" of the Oreo™ world. It looks like it, packaged like it, but its still an impostor! 

Sent from my Android, which is still better than the iPhone 6


----------



## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

I've been a super paint/regal guy for a long time now. After reading TJ's praise for pm200 a couple months ago I've made the switch and haven't looked back. My only complaint is with the semi, it doesn't seem to cover as well as super paint. Aura for deep colors, super paint for trim, pm200 for walls and collect the check.

Also my price for pm200 eggshell is $23 I charge $40.


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

US may be a good product. The name bothers me and reminds me of super spec, which I never did like. Again, they are at the same pricepoint, US and PM0, I already know PM0 works well. 

Perhaps I might have have to try it on an exterior next year.


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

TJ Paint said:


> Perhaps I might have have to try it on an exterior next year.



The exterior and interior are totally different animals. The exterior is great, very hard to beat for the price.

Sent from my Android, which is still better than the iPhone 6


----------



## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Also my price for pm200 eggshell is $23 I charge $40.


$23!  Im paying $25


----------



## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

NCPaint1 said:


> The exterior and interior are totally different animals. The exterior is great, very hard to beat for the price.
> 
> Sent from my Android, which is still better than the iPhone 6


I used US 500 exterior this summer (at $25ish) and I cant think of any paint with that price being as good, coverage, or application-wise. I would have to get into the mid 30s to match. Very pleased. I have no idea of what it will look like in 5-8 years, but that what they budgeted for- good, better, best! They got good, and so far, they're happy.


----------



## Steve Burnett (May 28, 2012)

We just finished a SAVON furniture store and was blown away at the performance of BM Ultra Spec. 
We used clear sealer and 1 top coat and it covered like a champ!


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> That's quality....$15/gal..... lmfao


I think you would be surprised how well a $15 product could hang with even Aura and both have an MPI rating of 44 X-Green.


----------



## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

What criteria is used to meet the 44 x-green? I have not been able to find a list. 

Do you have the full mpi data which would hopefully show scrub cycles, etc and the total for each paint, not just that it passes?

One could pass and just meet a threshold value and another could pass by tripling the threshold. But on MPI you would not on know the difference from the website.

I wonder how much more info. Mpi has available.


----------



## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


> I think you would be surprised how well a $15 product could hang with even Aura and both have an MPI rating of 44 X-Green.


Lol. I've been using Ultra for some projects and is not better than Aura. Good product but Aura is much better. Which product do you think compares to Aura for around $15?? Kilz ProX-100 line?


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> Lol. I've been using Ultra for some projects and is not better than Aura. Good product but Aura is much better. Which product do you think compares to Aura for around $15?? Kilz ProX-100 line?


ULTRA-HIDE... it was the first product forever ago to produce excellent results without drywall primers. It was under ten bucks but its gone up. Outperformed Duration Home Matte on walls when it came out on scrubbing and appearance and what came off the wall when you scrubbed it. 

I have no idea where the KILZ PRO-X line falls on the MPI. If you are not happy with the information the MPI provides on their results then please take a moment to let them know what you would like to see as far as details go.


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

jack pauhl said:


> ULTRA-HIDE... it was the first product forever ago to produce excellent results without drywall primers. It was under ten bucks but its gone up. Outperformed Duration Home Matte on walls when it came out on scrubbing and appearance and what came off the wall when you scrubbed it.
> 
> I have no idea where the KILZ PRO-X line falls on the MPI. If you are not happy with the information the MPI provides on their results then please take a moment to let them know what you would like to see as far as details go.



So a non VOC compliant product from 10 years ago VS a low VOC green product. JP you're slipping my friend. Your comparison is poor, and your comment in the BM thread about BIN is also incorrect. You consistently beat the HD drum, which is fine. Please have correct info if that's what you want to do instead of just passing the buck.

Sent from my Android, which is still better than the iPhone 6


----------



## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

NCPaint1 said:


> So a non VOC compliant product from 10 years ago VS a low VOC green product. JP you're slipping my friend. Your comparison is poor, and your comment in the BM thread about BIN is also incorrect. You consistently beat the HD drum, which is fine. Please have correct info if that's what you want to do instead of just passing the buck.
> 
> Sent from my Android, which is still better than the iPhone 6


oh oh here we go !:whistling2:


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> So a non VOC compliant product from 10 years ago VS a low VOC green product. JP you're slipping my friend. Your comparison is poor, and your comment in the BM thread about BIN is also incorrect. You consistently beat the HD drum, which is fine. Please have correct info if that's what you want to do instead of just passing the buck.
> 
> Sent from my Android, which is still better than the iPhone 6


The difference is clear. You sell paint, I use it.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Ultra-Hide

Meets all current VOC regulations
Meets MPI Green Performance Standard (GPS-1-08)
Meets MPI Latex Interior Conventional #53, 44 & 54
Meets MPI Latex Interior Institutional Low Odor/VOC #143, 144 & 147

Remember I said it meets 44-X-Green. So basically the awesome product from 10 years ago is better today and sits on the list with Aura in the same category.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> You consistently beat the HD drum, which is fine. Please have correct info if that's what you want to do instead of just passing the buck.


A bit of history for those not familiar with Ultra-Hide. It was sold before HD was a thought. Later brought into HD like Sikkens, Zinsser etc and many other products.


----------



## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

Ultra spec is a great first coat- under Aura!


----------



## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

BrushJockey said:


> Ultra spec is a great first coat- under Aura!


anybody see a fight comin on here ?:whistling2:


----------



## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)




----------



## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

Scotiadawg said:


> anybody see a fight comin on here ?:whistling2:


I've never heard of someone buying a paint line for the first coat and then another one for the second coat. :blink:


----------



## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Scotiadawg said:


> anybody see a fight comin on here ?:whistling2:


My paint and money are on Jack.


----------



## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

I'll put my money on nc all day long on this one.


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

jack pauhl said:


> A bit of history for those not familiar with Ultra-Hide. It was sold before HD was a thought. Later brought into HD like Sikkens, Zinsser etc and many other products.


Those products that are now in HD remain unchanged right? We all know that the Sikkens SRD is the same at both HD and independents right? Lol

Sent from my Android, which is still better than the iPhone 6


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Rbriggs82 said:


> I'll put my money on nc all day long on this one.


There's nothing to bet. I'm not doubting JP's knowledge or experience. I'm pointing out that he's wrong, this time. There are many instances in which he is correct. 

Also, those standards JP has pointed out are minimum requirements. Big deal. My Charger RT meets minimum emission requirements, as does a Chevy Volt. Doesn't make them equal.

Sent from my Android, which is still better than the iPhone 6


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

jack pauhl said:


> The difference is clear. You sell paint, I use it.


Weak.....and also debatable

Sent from my Android, which is still better than the iPhone 6


----------



## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> I've never heard of someone buying a paint line for the first coat and then another one for the second coat. :blink:



why not? Been doing it with different things for years.
Even a primer, then paint is two lines. 
In this case- I have used Ultra spec low luster to seal up builders flat- get the color, save a few bucks and finished with Aura matte. 
Works like a charm.


----------



## valuepro (Mar 21, 2010)

disantodrywall&paint said:


> ok so i met with a customer yesterday that said they were looking at using behr paint to paint their house. they said i can use what i want as long as it is no or low voc paint. I said that i use ben moore. I usually use aura, but thats around 78 bucks a gallon. is their something else i could use thats a little cheaper but around close to the same quality? I gotta try to bid this today and my paint store is closed. I was thinking or trying regal or something? thanks for the help


I like to use Aura if the customer wants Ben Moore and they are willing to pay for it. Its an awesome paint, plus I find that there isnt much it doesnt cover in two cuts (coverage wise).

I didnt like Ben paint and havent tried their other coatings because I am an SW fan.

Other than Aura, I use SW's Superpaint and ProMar 200 Zero. 

One suggestion I have for quoting, is having upgrades. So, this would be the coast with ProMar and this would be the cost with Aura. 

In some cases though Aura has saved me labour, especially with ackward colour coverge.


----------

