# Free Hand vs. Tape



## chipster (Dec 31, 2007)

:notworthy: I know, you real pros free hand cutting in and trim but what does it take to to get you to break out the blue tape and mask off something?


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## Alex PCI (Jul 26, 2007)

stripes are the only thing we tape. When it comes to trim, a freehand line looks best


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## timhag (Sep 30, 2007)

Practice, Practice, Practice and the waste of time taping will break you of that bad habit :yes:


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## Mopaint (Oct 17, 2007)

Glad you asked. Our new policy is tape the top of the baseboard if it is to stay clean or natural wood. We use 3m green. All other lines are to be hand cut. The main reason is all tape bleeds to a degree. I am talking about repaints mostly. On new work we take it case by case. I caught one of my new helpers taping off a heat vent on a white ceiling that was going to be cut and rolled. No more of this foolishness. The young guys are going to have to learn to handle a brush or find a new line of work. I blame 3m with their blue tape tv commercials for a lot of this over use of tape. I didn't mean to go on a rant but you hit a nerve. Thanks I feel better now. MOPAINT


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

******** said:


> :notworthy: I know, you real pros free hand cutting in and trim but what does it take to to get you to break out the blue tape and mask off something?


 
Tape is for spatter protection and once in a while if there is a blind spot between the edge of a casing and the inside corner of two walls where we have to jam a brush in. When staining stair treads we will tape off risers. Drawing lines? Never. Ever. Cutting is one of the arts of our trade. It takes skill, patience, good eye and sensibilities.


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## BenPaintinTooLong (Apr 17, 2007)

******** said:


> :notworthy: I know, you real pros free hand cutting in and trim but what does it take to to get you to break out the blue tape and mask off something?


 I have been known to run a tape line along the jamb edge and wall if the color is bright red or dark like deep purple, but never on the ceiling line or outside corners no matter what color. 
Ben


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## Mandrake (Jul 4, 2007)

Its a matter of production folks, not pride. I grew up in the business when taping was for amatuers only. You have to look at the cost of tape against the potential time saved and quality product. I could cut in with the best but found that taping sometimes saved time and aggravation. I don't paint much anymore but typically liked to tape off baseboards to keep the roller spray off.

Try doing a couple rooms both ways and monitoring time and material. Go for production and quality.

mandrake


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

I am a better cutter than I am a taper. It would take me longer to tape off than to just cut the damn line!


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

About the only thing i break out the tape for is stripes. Sometimes to cover the glass on the back doors of new construction too.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

On custom jobs, the tops of the base and the sides of window frames and door jambs are taped. If you have people who can tape fast, it produces a better looking job and any lower skilled (and lower paid) painter can cut in. Still cut in ceilings by hand.


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> Tape is for spatter protection and once in a while if there is a blind spot between the edge of a casing and the inside corner of two walls where we have to jam a brush in. When staining stair treads we will tape off risers. Drawing lines? Never. Ever. Cutting is one of the arts of our trade. It takes skill, patience, good eye and sensibilities.


Ditto. :thumbsup:


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

ProWallGuy said:


> Ditto. :thumbsup:


Same to you ProWallGuy! I fired a guy last summer because he couldnt cut without taping lines. On our high end residential jobs it was an embarrassment to me that I had a guy who couldnt cut. I gave him every chance and lots of tips to learn that skill and he just couldnt wrap his mind (or eye) around it. That really is one of the things that separates us from less accomplished professionals. Its the most rewarding thing when the homeowner comes in at the end and comments on how crisp our lines are.


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## ComRemodel (Dec 11, 2007)

_I caught one of my new helpers taping off a heat vent on a white ceiling that was going to be cut and rolled. No more of this foolishness._

Hate to say it but I prefer to have fixtures, light trims, speaker grills, wall plates, door hardware, etc REMOVED- and that started with customers wanting it. No matter how good you cut or even mask, eventually after a few paint jobs those things are going to look like they have been cut around. If you want to keep everything looking new that's what you have to do.


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## timhag (Sep 30, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> Same to you ProWallGuy! I fired a guy last summer because he couldnt cut without taping lines. On our high end residential jobs it was an embarrassment to me that I had a guy who couldnt cut. I gave him every chance and lots of tips to learn that skill and he just couldnt wrap his mind (or eye) around it.


How long did you give him? Mastering cut lines don't happen over night. :no:


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## jackrabbit5 (Oct 1, 2007)

As others before me have said, I'll tape the base to protect from spatter. Otherwise I freehand except in rare occassions such as when the wall texture is such that you can't get a clean line or if the wall is too porous. When I do use tape, (and this includes the base) I always "set" the tape with a putty knife to minimize the paint bleed. I also cut the junction between the taped off area and the wall with a putty knife before pulling off the tape. Then afterwards I'll go around and take care of any paint bridging or bleed that has occured.


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## The paint whisperer (Oct 18, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> Tape is for spatter protection and once in a while if there is a blind spot between the edge of a casing and the inside corner of two walls where we have to jam a brush in. When staining stair treads we will tape off risers. Drawing lines? Never. Ever. Cutting is one of the arts of our trade. It takes skill, patience, good eye and sensibilities.


 
Thanks for saving me time from typing.
Less tape, save time, More Money.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

timhag said:


> How long did you give him? Mastering cut lines don't happen over night. :no:


 
He had 5 years experience. I gave him 3 months. He was unwilling to commit to it.


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## T200 (Nov 11, 2007)

I've come to believe that being able to cut a straight line requires some sort of natural, innate, skill. I've seen 5-year painters who can't cut a straight line no matter how hard they try, but relative newcomers who can do a great job.


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## ccpainting (Oct 17, 2007)

yeah cut everything. tape for spray protection from the roller.


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## Joewho (Apr 17, 2007)

Tape when I feel like taping, cut when I feel like cutting. It really depends on the job. If the colors have sharp contrast, on an aparment, I'm just taping everything. Then cut the trim only.

I was raised on the idea of only sissies using tape, but learned along the way that it isn't always true.

Just like everything else in life, it isn't in black or white. There is no bottom line rule of how to do it every single time. I'd have to shoot myself if there was.

Taping is another one of those jobs by itself. It takes time to learn it. I'm not worried about bleed most of the time. But a taped line is never the same as a cut line. If you do faux stripes, with tape, you have to use a really thin tape to get rid of the ridge. If you still paint the line, after remoing the tape, its even smoother.


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## uglyjoe (Jan 18, 2008)

we brush and roll everything, so after the walls have been cut in, we always tape off top of base before rolling the wall.. not sure about you guys, but I have never found the sprinkle proof roller. doesnt matter what your cut line looks like if you have sprinkled the top of the base with wall paint.


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## Z paint (Jan 16, 2008)

i dont usually worry about the sprinkle unless the base is wood... the new sprinkle will come right off if its new with wiping...tape is expensive and we all must do a better job of using less resources when we dont have to


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## Rich (Apr 26, 2007)

I use tape to prevent splatter on natural wood base and a super dark color on white base and occasionally tight areas like a doorknob that is right up against a rubber gasket or something that would be impossible even with an artists brush

tape has it's place and it doesn't magically turn you into an amateur again
I can tape as fast as I paint, so I'm dipping my brush before I know it...


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## HomeGuardPaints (Jan 17, 2008)

Why tape or cut, when there are great inventions like this
:blink:


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## paulingrad (Dec 23, 2007)

Lol... i know what it is, i'm just wondering what it would be good for.

you wouldn't want to press against a deep pile carpet.


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## jackrabbit5 (Oct 1, 2007)

Rich said:


> I use tape to prevent splatter on natural wood base and a super dark color on white base and occasionally tight areas like a doorknob that is right up against a rubber gasket or something that would be impossible even with an artists brush
> 
> tape has it's place and it doesn't magically turn you into an amateur again
> I can tape as fast as I paint, so I'm dipping my brush before I know it...


99.9% of the time, I'll remove the doorknobs before I paint.:whistling2:


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## painttofish (Aug 28, 2007)

Joewho said:


> Tape when I feel like taping, cut when I feel like cutting. It really depends on the job. If the colors have sharp contrast, on an aparment, I'm just taping everything. Then cut the trim only.
> 
> I was raised on the idea of only sissies using tape, but learned along the way that it isn't always true.
> 
> ...


I agree, we tape the top of base and sides of casings if there is a significant color change. Use a five in one or putty knife and tool down the edge of the tape to eliminate bleed through. If you can tape well the two coats around the base and casings go very fast. I used to have the ego of " taping is for rookies " but when I did the math taping was faster and the lines are razer sharp. Of course our employees still have to be good enough for the ceiling cut. We all have different ways of baking a cake.


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## painttofish (Aug 28, 2007)

uglyjoe said:


> we brush and roll everything, so after the walls have been cut in, we always tape off top of base before rolling the wall.. not sure about you guys, but I have never found the sprinkle proof roller. doesnt matter what your cut line looks like if you have sprinkled the top of the base with wall paint.


BM's regal line is virtually spatter proof. Try some Matte with a 50/50 wooster napp. I have rolled rooms with tile and/or laminate floors with no drops and never a spatter or drip. Try it, you will be impressed. Drop clothes still recommended.:thumbsup:


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## greensboro84 (Feb 15, 2008)

My first day of painting I asked, "don't we tape around some of these things". They let me know that was unacceptable. Me on the other hand, would probably tape certain things off. Not so much the tape, but I think a sheild or something is called for to keep off the carpet while painting baseboards. What makes a good sheild? I would think the hard plastic ones would run if u get to much paint on it. Maybe a thin piece of cardboard? I'd get laughed off the job for using one, but what would make the best sheild?


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## DW Custom Painting (Feb 17, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> Tape is for spatter protection and once in a while if there is a blind spot between the edge of a casing and the inside corner of two walls where we have to jam a brush in. When staining stair treads we will tape off risers. Drawing lines? Never. Ever. Cutting is one of the arts of our trade. It takes skill, patience, good eye and sensibilities.


Well stated, who are these people who call themselves painters who can't cut a line, OH yeah there the people keeping the real painters in business.

DW


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## KCT (Feb 15, 2008)

If a guy can't cut, give him a new brush. If he still can't cut, get a new guy. Roller sleeves start spattering when folks let them dry out. I still tape to protect base if it's not to be painted. Most tape is cheap junk and bleeds. That Frog Tape works good, as does the yellow Razor Edge from S-W. Get yer wallet out though.


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## AuntieJan (Feb 6, 2008)

******** said:


> :notworthy: I know, you real pros free hand cutting in and trim but what does it take to to get you to break out the blue tape and mask off something?


I freehand everything except really odd areas when I do a straight painting job. I have been taught to keep a clean bucket of water (or spirits), a damp rag and a putty knife handy in case of any goofs (not that there ARE any  ). However, when I do faux finishes and murals I use the blue tape and plastic and/or kraft paper not only to mask but also for special effects like fake grout lines etc.


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## Dustygirl01 (Feb 12, 2008)

I hate tape...I end up fighting with it, getting tangled up in it and cursing at it. I only tape baseboard if it's not getting painted. Using blue tape to tape off the ceiling is my worst nightmare. Sometimes you have to do this if you're fauxing the walls. It's actually quicker for me to faux the walls, and repaint the cut-in line on the ceiling to cover up any glazing that got on the ceiling.


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

I always assumed tape was for homeowners. Funny story.. my B-I-L, Mr Fixit, bought a house this past summer. We meet at Lowe's where he is buying "the good stuff".. you know the stuff that is nearly $20 per gallon! While waiting for this premo mixture to be blended into a stunning fuscia-listic technicolor dream that his wife calls "Victorian", he comes back toward the paint counter with 4 rolls of the 2" masking. WTF? I didn't say anything. We drive to the house and the whole time he is telling me that his buddy is a pro painter and told him what order to paint in, how to get sraight lines etc.

I walk into the house, which I had not seen until that point and immediately get dizzy looking at the array of intersecting paint tape. It was a nightmare experience for my equlibrium. Every meeting was covered in tape. Baseboard to wall, trim to wall, ceiling to wall. Must have taken him hours. Now it isn't normal pr a gwon man to giggle but I had to run up to the bathroom pronto to not hurt his feelings. The worse part was, based upon his purchase, he wasn't done "prepping" yet.

Well, where the Mr Do It Yourself'er ends, Mr Cheapskate begins. So with the cental air switched off in mid July, the place is 120 degrees. 
"Ummm, Rob, is that ceiling paint fresh?"
Yep.
"How long has it been taped?" 
Since last weekend.

I don't think I need to explain how this story ended. As of Thanksgiving, you can still feel the residue and stickiness through two coats of paint. Thought you guys would get a kick out of that. I know I did.


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## Dustygirl01 (Feb 12, 2008)

I don't trust even low-tack blue tape to not pull off someone else's paint job. My coworker cannot cut in and has to tape EVERYTHING OFF. We've worked in homes where we aren't doing ceilings. She will tape them off, then pull tape (that same day) and off comes the paint, leaving a disaster. Better hope there's touch-up paint.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

DW Custom Painting said:


> Well stated, who are these people who call themselves painters who can't cut a line, OH yeah there the people keeping the real painters in business.
> 
> DW


Yep...can't cut a line, but have plenty who can...I call them employees. :thumbsup:


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Dustygirl01 said:


> I don't trust even low-tack blue tape to not pull off someone else's paint job. My coworker cannot cut in and has to tape EVERYTHING OFF. We've worked in homes where we aren't doing ceilings. She will tape them off, then pull tape (that same day) and off comes the paint, leaving a disaster. Better hope there's touch-up paint.


 
As the Grand Poohbah of links (Timhag) would say.....

TRY THIS. http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/...roduct_information/scotch-blue_painters_tape/


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## Paul_R (Apr 19, 2007)

I personally do not like to tape, seems that there is more time spent taping than if you just cut straight lines, and wiped off the occasional mistake. Do not usually tape a baseboard, just keep wet rag handy. Now a natural wood finish might get taped, but usually not. I use Purdy White Dove roller covers, and they have very little spray when I use SW paint. Have seen HO tape jobs that tear paint off and need tup. Not pretty.

Happy Painting, Paul.


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## Dustygirl01 (Feb 12, 2008)

Hello BikerBoy...we're neighbors...I'm just over the MD/PA line.

We've used blue tape that is not only low tack...but LOW low tack...the kind that has the orange core? It's supposed to be good for 30 days or something and not pull paint off. We've had issues with it pulling after one day. I just don't trust it.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Dustygirl01 said:


> Hello BikerBoy...we're neighbors...I'm just over the MD/PA line.
> 
> We've used blue tape that is not only low tack...but LOW low tack...the kind that has the orange core? It's supposed to be good for 30 days or something and not pull paint off. We've had issues with it pulling after one day. I just don't trust it.


Hey neighbor,

If it doesn't work for you I can understand. Don't normally have problems with the Delicate (Orange) tape, but I have pulled the finish off trim (new construction repaints, they don't prime the wood around here) and since posting my reply.....you guessed it, pulled the paint off a wall yesterday. (D*$M) Wasn't using the delicate that time.


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## DW Custom Painting (Feb 17, 2008)

Dusty and biker where are you folks located? I'm in West Chester, Pa.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

I am in Caroline County over on Maryland's Eastern Shore. The closest large town is Easton, MD. About 1 1/2 to 2 hours south of you.


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

Ohhh boy....

Here it goes... :innocent:


I used to cut in by hand like crazy.. Fast and efficient with GREAT results. But I have since realized that there is no way to get as straight as a tape line, so... I have since converted. Here is my secret (or not): 

Now lets understand something... I have an eye that is sharp as a pencil and a hand as steady as a full spinning top (toy). My experience in taping came from Auto body work when I was working with my dad as a teenager (havn't done that kind of work since then, and never will). My ability to perfect a minor art skill such as drawing a straight tape line comes from both mom and dad. Mom who is an artist in MANY areas... So, I have the blood of many artistic skills if I so choose to excersize them. Not braggin here.. just giving a background to why I can be efficient in my practice.  

I can tape a room and caulk against it in about the same amount of time someone can had cut the most perfect line. Once the taping and caulking is done, it's nothing to throw the paint on.. yeah, literally throw it on. After the masking and caulk is done, my kids can cut in, and at the end have the most perfect results. You might be asking... what is the caulk for? After the application of the tape (I use 3M blue 2090 for the most part), I apply a small enough bead of caulk to the edge (base, door trim or window trim) to seal the edge of the tape and this will keep any bleed through form happening. After the caulk is applied I, in essence remove it. Wipe it off. The need to wipe it off so you can see the edge of the tape is critical, otherwise you may pull off the caulk residue from the wall and mess it all up. The caulk application is easy and fast. I recommend a wet/damp rag to wipe the caulk out. Again the caulking in this fassion is a skill of it's own to some degree... I have actually figured out how to utilize the caulk tip to remove the excess caulk (about 85%) thus eliminating the need to "wipe" it out as I am caulking. 

So, now the tape has a few purposes; protects from roller splatter, creates the straight line and fills in the gap from the base to the wall (situational).

I justify the material cost and time for quality. We all know quality takes time and pays more. 

The fact is, if the masking is done right and all procedures considered, a tape line is better than a hand line, hands down! :thumbup:

I can give you the straightest line to perfection with my method on a textured bull-nose corner that would impress even the most hard core hand-line painter. Seriously. But here's the deal. You have to want to master this style of painting lines in order to execute it's results successfully, just like anything else.... If one is not teachable or willing to learn then they will be limited in their ability to find something new or better. I understand it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks, I know.... My dad worked for me for a year and a half and because he thought certain ways were better, his stubborness got him fired. If someone is not willing to use a tool needed in a trade, what use are they? Anyways....

The caulking is strategic in it's application and it's color. Some times I use many different colors in the same house for caulking against tape. It really depends on the color your taping on. If your trying to separate a color that is dark brown from a light beige and the dark brown is already applied, you want to tape to the dark brown and use a dark brown caulk to seal the tape. Caulk will bleed through the tape but nothing compared to painting against uncaulked tape. So, color of caulk is important. If you cannot find a color that would best fit the situation, clear caulk works great! The only thing about clear caulk is that it can be challenging to see where you have caulked. Go figure...

Another similar process is to paint against the tape the color you applied your tape to. This is like using caulk but the only thing here is that you have to have that specific paint/color to accomplish this. Most repaints don't have the original paint or color. 

I understand too that there are issues with pulling paint from surfaces with taping. I have run into this most all the time, but I have realized in a given situation it is preventable based on how the surface is prepared or what tape to use. It's spendy but the orange 3M is wonderful in most situations. I tend to use it to bring two colors together. The 2090 is sufficient for base, doors and windows. In new construction or remodels it's apparent that the primer under the top coat must be with good coverage to hold the top coat. This MDF crap that most builders use in this area is not preprimed well enough and so I have learned I still need to prime it for quality results. 

And yes.. ceilings need to be cut by hand... I still use my taping method for inverted corners.

If I have too, I can cut a straight line by hand, but I try not too, I like the quality of tape lines :thumbsup:

J


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## brentcof (Feb 1, 2008)

I am relatively new to the business (5 years) and feel that I can cut-in pretty well. But I have to tell you that ever since I started using the 3m orange core tape, I don't know that I will do much free hand work anymore around trim. I'm sure it depends on your process, but I paint my trim first, then apply 2 coats on walls (repaint). I just feel that it saves so much time, especially on 2 coats, and therefore increases profit. If you have never used this product, you really should consider at least trying it because the razor-sharp lines it makes are second to none!

I have just been reading on this forum for a while without responding - due to fear of the "seasoned wise ones". So - don't shoot the messenger!:gun_bandana: :shutup:


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

I don't want to discourage or insult anyone with this response but it is something that I have a strong opinion about professionally. I have fired people over this. Cutting is one of the most valued of the skills that professional painters have. It is one of the things that distinguishes great painters from the rest, and from homeowners. 

Other than our cleanliness, our cutting has been the biggest recurring compliment from customers for years. People respect this. If you have the skill to do it, you must. There is no sense in wasting time and materials in taping off if you dont have to, even if you hoodwink yourself into believing you are creating a perfect line. There are no perfectly straight lines between surfaces in houses. That is the art of what we do, we create the illusion of perfection.

Riding a bike with training wheels is much safer than riding a bike in the traditional sense, but it sure takes the fun and skill out of the experience.


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## GMack (Jan 18, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> I don't want to discourage or insult anyone with this response but it is something that I have a strong opinion about professionally. I have fired people over this. Cutting is one of the most valued of the skills that professional painters have. It is one of the things that distinguishes great painters from the rest, and from homeowners.
> 
> Other than our cleanliness, our cutting has been the biggest recurring compliment from customers for years. People respect this. If you have the skill to do it, you must. There is no sense in wasting time and materials in taping off if you dont have to, even if you hoodwink yourself into believing you are creating a perfect line. There are no perfectly straight lines between surfaces in houses. That is the art of what we do, we create the illusion of perfection.
> 
> Riding a bike with training wheels is much safer than riding a bike in the traditional sense, but it sure takes the fun and skill out of the experience.


I agree . . . Take time and money out of the equation for the purposes of this discussion. I feel that if unions between subtrates were truely perfect (they're not), tape may be the better option for perfection. But when you are dealing with imperfect unions, they should be cut free hand. As VP said, we don't create perfection, we create the illusion of perfection. And we really do. 

I've always kept an open mind about taping for lines though I haven't done much of it myself. And I would check my ego at the door if I thought taping was the answer to creating a system in which anyone off the street could produce great lines. But it isn't the answer. Taping can be just as challenging as cutting and presents a brand new set of issues to deal with.

I'll keep teaching a free-hand cut, not because I don't know any better, because I believe it to be the superior system. 

Mack


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> I don't want to discourage or insult anyone with this response


I am not discouraged or insulted. I do find your view a bit narrow... 

Now to the general public:

I am not against those who cut in by hand, It's a practice we all have to learn but it isn't necessary for all or most paint lines.

The line is in the eye of the beholder. How one person sees a line may not be the same way another sees it.... For some, cutting by hand is the answer, for others tape is the answer. Neither is wrong. Both have perfected their process to achieve the same or similar result.

We are only great in what we think we can do successfully, but that doesn't make anyone else less than great because they do not hold to the standards of the greatness in another. :yes: 


J


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Jason

You may be right, I may be crazy...

The general perception is that people use tape to get lines because they don't have the skill to do it freehand. Every painter I know who tapes, does so because they are insecure in their cutting and convince themselves that tape lines are better anyways. 

Also, tape is expensive. To use it unnecessarily is wasteful. It takes alot of tape to tape an entire room, let alone an entire house, let alone every single job you do in a year. You can litter the landfills with your used tape if you want but it is wasteful. Maybe you could do like Pee Wee Herman used to do with aluminum foil and make a ball out of it that you keep adding to over time. In any event, you seem happy with it and thats all that really matters.


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## timhag (Sep 30, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> I am not against those who cut in by hand,


 
 What other way would there be???


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## timhag (Sep 30, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> Pee Wee Herman quote]
> He said Pee Wee Herman:lol:


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

timhag said:


> What other way would there be???


Ok.. lets kill the literalism.. LOL...

Obviously we are distinguishing paint lines by hand brush or tape..... :thumbsup:

They both have to be done by hand... Lets figure that as a default, no brainer... lol


J


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Actually, Jason, I think Timhag's reaction holds some merit. I suspect that if you were to poll all of the painters in here, you would find that the majority are in the habit of creating their lines the good old fashioned way. Most painters think of in terms of "cutting in". Not "taping in". But again, if it works for you thats great.

This could be a good point of differentiation for you in your marketing, something that distinguishes your service from the rest of the pack.


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> Jason
> 
> The general perception is that people use tape to get lines because they don't have the skill to do it freehand. Every painter I know who tapes, does so because they are insecure in their cutting and convince themselves that tape lines are better anyways.


General Mills?
Surgeon General? (teasing here... )

Nahhhh...It's YOUR perception. :thumbsup: 

Again, it's not about who is right or wrong:

"The line is in the eye of the beholder. How one person sees a line may not be the same way another sees it.... For some, cutting by hand is the answer, for others tape is the answer. Neither is wrong. Both have perfected their process to achieve the same or similar result."

J


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> This could be a good point of differentiation for you in your marketing, something that distinguishes your service from the rest of the pack.


Good observation :thumbsup: 

J


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Definitely run with that in your marketing.

We used to have a colleague in here who convinced many of us that using a plastic molded kiddie pool from Wal Mart was the best way to contain paint spatter and spills. He didnt use drop cloths. 

As with marketing, it takes alot of repetition to get an idea to stick (pun intended).


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I tend to think that new costruction=tape, repaint work=free hand. It seems like the mainly new construction guys tape, the mostly repaint guys free hand. For repaint work, it is worth free handing solely because customers notice it, and favorably.


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## stansoph (Dec 16, 2007)

Whatever happened to ********? Did he drown in his pool?


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## Pete's Painting (Mar 5, 2008)

I feel that I can cut very well, but nothing looks as good as when it is taped. I only do it for the 1st coat or the primer, then I take it off cuz it gets too messy and then simply follow the crisp line that the tape made for the 2nd coat or coats. 
I always felt that tape was for amateurs, but my customers loved it when I switched, commenting that it looked like the room was painted by a computer. 
Once again, I know how to cut in, started painting apartments for my old man when I was in grade school. but doesn't anyone agree that nothing compares to the perfect line made by tape, especially with a dark paint?


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

Pete's Painting said:


> ...but nothing looks as good as when it is taped. I only do it for the 1st coat or the primer, then I take it off cuz it gets too messy and then simply follow the crisp line that the tape made for the 2nd coat or coats.


I do the same thing...




Pete's Painting said:


> ...but my customers loved it when I switched, commenting that it looked like the room was painted by a computer.


Nice and crisp... that's it my friend. Nothing can do that but tape. Literally...



Pete's Painting said:


> Once again, I know how to cut in, started painting apartments for my old man when I was in grade school. but doesn't anyone agree that nothing compares to the perfect line made by tape, especially with a dark paint?


I agree.. read my previous posts... :thumbsup:

The issue is, that we have painters on both sides of the fence. Nothing wrong with that.  The grass is just as green on one side as it is the other in this case. I certainly don't lose business because I tape and it's all added into the cost. I can hardly believe those who do not tape are losing either. Thanks Pete. Your post was encouraging... Kinda felt like I was among the Tapeless painters crowd... LOL.... 

J


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## Pete's Painting (Mar 5, 2008)

I just did an estimate on a million dollar+ home, 100k car in the driveway etc., The homeowner had painted the place previously himself, and he had done an exceptional job. Will my work be better? Of course, but out of all the "handy man specials" I've seen done by customers, this is by far the best. 
I was going through the order of events, when I mentioned tape, and he comments "U use tape?" I thought, oh crap, as he's looking at me like I have 3 heads. So to recover from my blunder, I said something like, "yeah, I used to be like you and claim that tape was for amateurs, but when I'm done you'll think a computer painted the inside of your house" and quickly pulled out pictures of past work with contrast walls etc. 
So if you do use tape, you may want to be prepared to back it up. Nonetheless, I got the job, and he wants an estimate for the exterior as well. So yes, some customers see tape as a weakness, but I like using it, and I think I move quicker when I do.


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## Purdygirl (Mar 3, 2008)

I'm still learning how to navigate around this site, so not quite sure yet where to post and why I need a title in a reply to a thread... 
Talking about taping vs. cutting in, I LOVE cutting in and I think it always looks better than taped. I learned the trade in Europe, I did a 4 year painting apprenticeship back in the 80's 'gulp' and in our first year we had to cut in not only right handed but left handed too. I remember the left handed struggle, like your left hand isn't really attached to your brain, trying to get that line straight, keep the paint even. I have to say, practice makes perfect in most of us, and I am really happy to have that left-handed skill today. 

:yes:


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## drpainter (Mar 6, 2008)

I like to tape the cealings just like on tv, ? using 2" tape,
tape everything , also I roller walls with no extention pole,
its a good work out !
Just kidding, I only tape b boards ....... Dr


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## AALory (Mar 6, 2008)

Painting is a craft. And the most visual exposition of that craft is the lines we cut. I always tell the people I work with that you may not be able to cut it perfectly right now, but in the long run it is always better to practice the task the right way, rather than practicing a shortcut. A handmade line is almost always better than a taped one. However, the realities of the job sometimes dictate that you employ some shortcuts and move the job along. Some customers don't want to pay for the artisan work.
Adam


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## cullybear (Mar 10, 2008)

I am with the tape side. I can cut with both hands to perfection but if you tape the painted trim leaving a small reveal and a light coat of caulk,which you have to do anyway on new construction the end result makes it look like a laser line. Try it you will like it


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## PAPaint (Mar 14, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> Riding a bike with training wheels is much safer than riding a bike in the traditional sense, but it sure takes the fun and skill out of the experience.


that sums it up for me.
I am a firm believer in free hand, with only one exception, that being bullnoses, then i like to tape and caulk like jasonAPI was saying. but my biz partner on the other hand cant seem to help but want to tape off everything, and i was taught that only homeowners tape-off and we will look like fools if anybody who sees us doing it that way.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Should I have taped this drywall ceiling before cutting oil into it?


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## timhag (Sep 30, 2007)

V, I wouldn't have taped. I hate taping, very time consuming and unprofessional <--------waiting on the remarks:boxing:


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## timhag (Sep 30, 2007)

V, I do hope that you have a decent reach or that you are on rollers. Wouldn't want to have lap marks.
Oh....where are the WHITES......lol


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

timhag said:


> V, I do hope that you have a decent reach or that you are on rollers. Wouldn't want to have lap marks.


I am stretch armstrong. Actually, it was a wiping oil and I had to sand out to 220 to clean up the aggressive sanding in the joints by the carpenters, that it was pretty closed up. It came out nice.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Darn!

I'm sorry I didn't join this BB a few months ago. This is one of my FAVORITE topics. OH, the sh!tty cuts I have seen from supposed "professionals".  

IMO, tape don't exist, unless you are a hack blow and goer (have I insulted anyone yet :whistling2: sorry, I'm adamant about this) Seriously, if you are a PAINTER, if you can see it, you can cut it ...... with EITHER hand. 

PERIOD!


I must say when I picked up a brush for money back in '71, for the first week it took me awhile to cut in a bed molding, but I got it RIGHT! And as you progress in the business, you learn the short cuts, like cutting the wall AFTER painting the 1/8 return on bases or crowns. 

Now here's a spatter proof trick for wood floors, take some Butcher's wax and smear it quickly on the floor up to the base. With proper use of drops, you'll only need a couple of inches out from the base. Any spatters will then come up REAL quick.


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## timhag (Sep 30, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> I am stretch armstrong. Actually, it was a wiping oil and I had to sand out to 220 to clean up the aggressive sanding in the joints by the carpenters, that it was pretty closed up. It came out nice.


Looks good brother, very well done :thumbsup:


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

daArch said:


> Darn!
> 
> I'm sorry I didn't join this BB a few months ago. This is one of my FAVORITE topics. OH, the sh!tty cuts I have seen from supposed "professionals".


That makes two of us. I posted these pics as an example for the pro tape afficionados here. What would they do in this situation? Tape all sides of these beam wraps into ceilings and walls? There is nothing that migrates behind the tiniest lift in the tape like a PENETRATING OIL!! And then on the flip side, when you have to cut the ceilings and walls back into the oiled beams, there is nothing that sticks to recently oiled wood. Period.

Bottom line, if you cant cut, you are not going to be able to do a project like this. I absolutely love cutting a room like this. By the way, a good cut guy can even cut something like this with a bad brush. I used a $4 plastic handle throw away because I hate cleaning oil brushes. Check it out in the first pic.


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

daArch said:


> like cutting the wall AFTER painting the 1/8 return on bases or crowns.


Hmm. I don't use tape either, except for covering the base from spatter when rolling. AND, baseboards are always done last. Yes, I freehand that 1/8" return with a line so sharp and straight it would bring a tear to your eye. :yes:


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

daArch said:


> Darn!
> 
> like cutting the wall AFTER painting the 1/8 return on bases or crowns.
> 
> .


I'm so glad you made it Arch. Check out the bottom lip on that crown. Nothing like red into white.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

Just finish this one this week, no tape  BTW the trim is Muralos waterborne in high gloss... The owners are greek. The room w/ the chair rail will get a toned stripe above the CRail next week
Scott - I agree the red into white would be a challege


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## timhag (Sep 30, 2007)

Nice work MAK :thumbsup:


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

MAK

Very nice work. I can appreciate the cutting on all that. Again, would the tapers really tape all that off? Don't get me started. Nice job on that. Did you cut the wall into both edges of the chair rail? Sometimes if I am feeling daring I will cut that chair into the wall. Can work either way.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

Thanks guys i was Leary using high gloss but it works (for them anyways) I did the chair rail afterwards to clean it up as i do the base after the walls are done too.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

I'm impressed, Scott.

Although, ya gotta admit, stain (with the correctly "filled" brush) is easier than paint, especially on new work that some BOZO hasn't caulked. :whistling2: 

But that don't diminish your skills. 

BTW, what town is that gorgeous home in? 

According to the map I have, I know your area fairly well. Spent many a summer over in Canaan NH at my Grandmother's house.Skied many a winter at the Dartmouth Skiway. My Grandmother was an avid sportsman and hunted with her dogs (English retrievers) in Norwich allot. (Is the Norwich Inn still in business?)


One of my best and favorite customers has a house in Woodstock, I'll try to slip your name out when I do an upcoming job for them down here.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Arch

Thanks. We are in Chittenden County, the Burlington area around Lake Champlain. North of the parts you are referring to, but only a few hours from Boston. Nice to have another anti-taper on board!

MAK

We always do baseboard cut last too...theres just no other way to get that razor line.


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## timhag (Sep 30, 2007)

daArch said:


> My Grandmother was an avid sportsman and hunted with her dogs .


Hows about "My Grandmother was an avid sportswoman" :yes:


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

daArch said:


> According to the map I have, I know your area fairly well. Spent many a summer over in Canaan NH at my Grandmother's house.Skied many a winter at the Dartmouth Skiway. My Grandmother was an avid sportsman and hunted with her dogs (English retrievers) in Norwich allot. (Is the Norwich Inn still in business?)
> 
> Norwich is just over an hour away. I believe the Inn is still running.
> 
> The Woodstock area is a wealthy one.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

Burlington is a nice town we went there in 05 part of are family vacation to New England, I remember eating at restaurant in the downtown area.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

> Thanks. We are in Chittenden County, the Burlington area around Lake Champlain.


That's what I first thought. Up by Essex Junction. But I searched with MS Streets and Trips, and it put Jericho down by White River Junction. 

Oh well.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

daArch said:


> That's what I first thought. Up by Essex Junction. But I searched with MS Streets and Trips, and it put Jericho down by White River Junction.
> 
> Oh well.


Wow. WRJ is a long way away. Essex Jct is about 5 minutes!


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

MAK-Deco said:


> Burlington is a nice town we went there in 05 part of are family vacation to New England, I remember eating at restaurant in the downtown area.



Burlington is a BEAUTIFUL town. Small, walkable, and very friendly. AND it has the lake. I wouldn't mind a bit living there myself.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> Essex Jct is about 5 minutes!


Yah, I know. BTDT.

You're lucky to be able to live and work in that area. I'm jealous. Yes even with your snow


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

daArch said:


> Burlington is a BEAUTIFUL town. Small, walkable, and very friendly. AND it has the lake. I wouldn't mind a bit living there myself.


A word to the wise: _there arent any paper hangers around here who are worth a crap. I've seen your work. You'd do well._


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

timhag said:


> Oh....where are the WHITES......lol


You will rarely find me in painters whites in the winter. At my age wheelchair, if I go out to the portalet and get stuck in a snowdrift I wouldnt be seen for days. This way I stick out, like a turd in a punchbowl. 

And I'm with you, shorts all summer.


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> Should I have taped this drywall ceiling before cutting oil into it?


I use alot of tape, but not for something like that. 

Now, the Red on white... Hands down, you did a great job:thumbup:. I would have used tape... but that is just my style, it doesn't make me a less painter than anyone else.... :thumbsup:

J


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## painttofish (Aug 28, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> Should I have taped this drywall ceiling before cutting oil into it?


Pre-finishing must not have been an option, bummer. Funny how a little tape makes people ride there high horses.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

painttofish said:


> Pre-finishing must not have been an option, bummer. Funny how a little tape makes people ride there high horses.


As you can see from the size of these wraps, there are alot of joints that were sanded heavily. Prefinishing would have been one step forward two steps back. Not trying to be high on the horse, but I do know that if you are not comfortable and skilled at freehand cutting, a custom room like this is not for you.


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## painttofish (Aug 28, 2007)

MAK-Deco said:


> Just finish this one this week, no tape  BTW the trim is Muralos waterborne in high gloss... The owners are greek. The room w/ the chair rail will get a toned stripe above the CRail next week
> Scott - I agree the red into white would be a challege





vermontpainter said:


> As you can see from the size of these wraps, there are alot of joints that were sanded heavily. Prefinishing would have been one step forward two steps back. Not trying to be high on the horse, but I do know that if you are not comfortable and skilled at freehand cutting, a custom room like this is not for you.


V, hard to see from the pic, but I can see how this would be counter productive. Didn't mean you in specific :cowboy:, just funny how different procedures get people all up in arms. Take MAK's center photo (green walls gloss trim) for instance. Assume priming, and ceilings are done. I would 1. cut crown to ceiling and brush bottom return onto the wall 2. brush or spray trim and base onto wall. 3. tape edges of window trim and top of base with 1" blue. 4. cut wall to crown and brush around windows and top of base twice onto the tape and roll walls. I can tape the edge of a window in about 30 seconds. Once this is done my two coats around the windows and above the base obviously go very fast. WHAT THIS ACCOMPLISHES FOR ME. the only thing I am truly having to cut-in is the crown to ceiling. the base and casings are rolled up on the wall (no real cuttting). Say the time it takes to brush one coat around a window (razor sharp) takes the same time as running a piece of blue tape down the edge (wich it doesn't) you still have another second cut down the edge to do. I don't want to hear that painting the trim last and saving a cut around the window is faster or looks better. Hey, it works for me, and is faster and looks better than freehanding in my opinion. These (edges of windows and top of base)are the only things I tape, usually on new work, and please, no I have never taped a ceiling. Believe it or not I can cut a PHINE line if I do say so myself, I just think this is a faster better looking option. My fingers are tired and if anyone took the time to read this I thank you for your diligence. Such a long thread with strong opinions I thought I'd take a stab at it, even if it is page 24. Remember, there is more than one way to please a woman. Clean your hair out of the sink comes to mind.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

You make several good point, most especially doing what works for you, and I think that also speaks to my point about having to do what the specific situation calls for. Thanks for the thoughtful contribution.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> I'm so glad you made it Arch. Check out the bottom lip on that crown. Nothing like red into white.


If I didn't know any better I would think that crown was painted before it was installed, finished nailed nice and tight and putty holes cleaned up...no caulk ....but thats the old NEPS.... looks great Scott... nice work! :thumbsup:


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> If I didn't know any better I would think that crown was painted before it was installed, finished nailed nice and tight and putty holes cleaned up...no caulk ....but thats the old NEPS.... looks great Scott... nice work! :thumbsup:


I wish life could be that simple. It was installed raw poplar. Primed, filled, caulked and satin impervo in place.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Three piece base went down raw too. Fun.


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## Mark of Jacksonville (Feb 8, 2008)

I am truly impressed by the stain on the beams and the red on white pics posted on the thread...my compliments for fine workmanship.

I have not had great success using tape and have had to force my hand at cutting free-hand. I agree that the amount of tape used is wasteful and that if I can perfect my art of doing free-hand, that is the route I will follow.

My question is what size brush do you all use and how wide of a cut line do you tend to provide yourself to roll into?

I am working solo on a job and the HO got ambitious and "helped cut in" part of the room between days...like 6" worth!!! from the ceiling. I try to keep the cut to about an inch to 1 1/2".

Mark


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Mark of Jacksonville said:


> I am truly impressed by the stain on the beams and the red on white pics posted on the thread...my compliments for fine workmanship.
> 
> I have not had great success using tape and have had to force my hand at cutting free-hand. I agree that the amount of tape used is wasteful and that if I can perfect my art of doing free-hand, that is the route I will follow.
> 
> ...


Mark

Speaking for myself, I prefer a 2" Purdy for all interior cutting. I find that I can control the thickness of the line. I dont like having a fat bead in the edge of my line. My crew is split, some prefer 2" and others feel that 2 1/2" is better. Most painters that I talk to think 2" is too small. For fine work as above, its my tool.

On cutting, I prefer to keep the cut line as thin as possible. Like you said 1-1 1/2 inch is nice. The reason for this is I want the wall to appear as predominantly roller texture. I have seen guys brush cut a 6" band and roll into it. This gets weird for me because of the overlap of the cut and roll bands. Creates an extra coat effect. So I go for thin cut line and feather the roller into it. Also, no matter what the colors, we always do the wall cut twice. I have been amazed over the years by painters who thought they could skip the cut on the second coat. Doesnt work, for me anyways.

Also, I might (might!) let an ambitious homeowner cut the corners in and maybe roll. Maybe not though because I get real mad when inexperienced painters bump the ceiling with the wall roller...

Definitely continue building your cutting skills. When your dominant hand masters it, give that one a rest and teach your weak hand. I started cutting left handed years ago and its a good thing. Start in closets and low visibility areas and on easy colors. Exteriors are a good place to build the weak hand too.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Stricly brush ...or do you spray Impervo and cut walls back in...... very nice work ....and I'm a cut man too...by the way!


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

painttofish said:


> V, hard to see from the pic, but I can see how this would be counter productive. Didn't mean you in specific :cowboy:, just funny how different procedures get people all up in arms. Take MAK's center photo (green walls gloss trim) for instance. Assume priming, and ceilings are done. I would 1. cut crown to ceiling and brush bottom return onto the wall 2. brush or spray trim and base onto wall. 3. tape edges of window trim and top of base with 1" blue. 4. cut wall to crown and brush around windows and top of base twice onto the tape and roll walls. I can tape the edge of a window in about 30 seconds. Once this is done my two coats around the windows and above the base obviously go very fast. WHAT THIS ACCOMPLISHES FOR ME. the only thing I am truly having to cut-in is the crown to ceiling. the base and casings are rolled up on the wall (no real cuttting). Say the time it takes to brush one coat around a window (razor sharp) takes the same time as running a piece of blue tape down the edge (wich it doesn't) you still have another second cut down the edge to do. I don't want to hear that painting the trim last and saving a cut around the window is faster or looks better. Hey, it works for me, and is faster and looks better than freehanding in my opinion. These (edges of windows and top of base)are the only things I tape, usually on new work, and please, no I have never taped a ceiling. Believe it or not I can cut a PHINE line if I do say so myself, I just think this is a faster better looking option. My fingers are tired and if anyone took the time to read this I thank you for your diligence. Such a long thread with strong opinions I thought I'd take a stab at it, even if it is page 24. Remember, there is more than one way to please a woman. Clean your hair out of the sink comes to mind.



My was a repaint so I wouldn't think about spraying, ceiling was done first the crown, doors and windows then walls and base last. All trim brushed and walls brushed and rolled.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> Stricly brush ...or do you spray Impervo and cut walls back in...... very nice work ....and I'm a cut man too...by the way!


All brush, all the time. The house with the red impervo was 10k s.f. We were there for a very, very long time. The only thing we spray is drywall primer and a first coat on ceilings. From there on out its all the old fashioned way. 

It is good to know that there are other cut freaks around. I love this stuff.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Here's a twin room to the red one I showed, only in blue impervo.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> All brush, all the time. The house with the red impervo was 10k s.f. We were there for a very, very long time. The only thing we spray is drywall primer and a first coat on ceilings. From there on out its all the old fashioned way.
> 
> It is good to know that there are other cut freaks around. I love this stuff.


All brush ahhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!! Yes on repaints ...but 10k sq/ft new construction......all brush ...must of been a 75k job! I just did that "OIL house" I posted about last month...sprayed 3 coats impervo on all trim and doors ....I love the build of nice slowly sprayed millwork.....


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> All brush ahhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!! Yes on repaints ...but 10k sq/ft new construction......all brush ...must of been a 75k job! I just did that "OIL house" I posted about last month...sprayed 3 coats impervo on all trim and doors ....I love the build of nice slowly sprayed millwork.....


I'll pm you about the numbers...

I like sprayed finish too. The problem is, and it always always happens, is on touch up. Do you set up the sprayer to do touch ups or do you introduce brush texture? This is the dilemma I have when I consider it.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> I'll pm you about the numbers...
> 
> I like sprayed finish too. The problem is, and it always always happens, is on touch up. Do you set up the sprayer to do touch ups or do you introduce brush texture? This is the dilemma I have when I consider it.


Have to brush ... I dont think I would spray deep color like that..... doors yes ... trim no ...but I guess it would depend on the house and the style .... I brushed all the trim in my house... satin impervo and brushed all my 6 panel solid doors .... I'm just thinking of 10k sq/ft brushing oil.... did you at least spray the primer to the trim and doors? I hope it was in the winter and you didnt have too keep youself off the market for too long. I did a 8k sq/ft home withall one color spanish white trim in oil satin impervo last year and it was a PROJECT ...house took a year from painting to the punch ....had a tough time matching up the trim ....aged oils in whites are no fun!


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Several good points NEP. We didnt spray the primer, doors, nothing. And yes, a job like that keeps you out of circulation for a long time. I would run into people and they would be like: "are you still in the painting business?"

You're right about aged oils. We ran into issues on our project where we would go back to a room that we had painted 6 months previous and we had the original batch of trim paint we had used and it would no longer match because the color retention in deep base oils is so poor. They fade and change fast. Even in whites.


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## Mark of Jacksonville (Feb 8, 2008)

Scott,

"The reason for this is I want the wall to appear as predominantly roller texture. I have seen guys brush cut a 6" band and roll into it. This gets weird for me because of the overlap of the cut and roll bands. Creates an extra coat effect. So I go for thin cut line and feather the roller into it. Also, no matter what the colors, we always do the wall cut twice. I have been amazed over the years by painters who thought they could skip the cut on the second coat. Doesnt work, for me anyways.

Also, I might (might!) let an ambitious homeowner cut the corners in and maybe roll. Maybe not though because I get real mad when inexperienced painters bump the ceiling with the wall roller..."

I too like to minimize the amount of paint that appears to have been brushed. I primarily use Purdy too and recently tried Corona, but bristles kept coming loose into my finish. When working with the darker colors and when lighting is bright in the room, you can really tell a difference between 1 and 2 coats being cut in. I'm with you on 2 coats standard, even if...personal preference I guess.

On the ceilings being bumped, am noticing that the previous painter, had bumped the ceiling quite often as he/she rolled it out. My color ap is not the same and I told the HO that I could touch up ceilings with Ceiling White to fix those areas. Had my color ap been a similar match to the existing coat, I would have fixed it, so it wouldn't appear as though I was the blind man that bumped the ceiling. HO chose to let it go...finding it difficult not to fix the problem, but don't want to perform outside of the agreement or without compensation.

On the HO pitching in, initially I was miffed but realized that having been in his shoes and seeing work performed on his house probably sparked some momentary motivation to pitch in, but died out quickly when he realized he hated doing this sort of thing. (I know this because he informed me that he didn't cut in on the hallway that he painted...just rolled what he could reach )


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> Several good points NEP. We didnt spray the primer, doors, nothing. And yes, a job like that keeps you out of circulation for a long time. I would run into people and they would be like: "are you still in the painting business?"
> 
> You're right about aged oils. We ran into issues on our project where we would go back to a room that we had painted 6 months previous and we had the original batch of trim paint we had used and it would no longer match because the color retention in deep base oils is so poor. They fade and change fast. Even in whites.


Hey Scott, nice to see color on trim been a long time around here that we had to do that. All tho in downtown Chicago in the high rises a lot of designers are starting to spec colors on trim and doors I am waiting to do one. I want to try my trim paint out in an actual color other then, white, white dove or china white.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

MAK

It does make things alot more interesting visually. The deep bases require more coats, keep that in mind in your estimating.


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## Purdygirl (Mar 3, 2008)

WOW!! Now that was an entertaining thread, I read every single one. Very nice work you guys, I am impressed. Nice to see so many true pros out there who are proud of their trade and do beautiful work. 
Makes me feel right at home.:rockon:


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## painttofish (Aug 28, 2007)

stansoph said:


> Whatever happened to ********? Did he drown in his pool?


How ironic, this is Ch!psters thread and we can't even type Ch!pster!!:boat::boat:


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

painttofish said:


> BM's regal line is virtually spatter proof. Try some Matte with a 50/50 wooster napp. I have rolled rooms with tile and/or laminate floors with no drops and never a spatter or drip. Try it, you will be impressed. Drop clothes still recommended.:thumbsup:


I would have to disagree with this statement in my experience that regal flat splatters more then most paints I have even used. The matte is certainly better.


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## painttofish (Aug 28, 2007)

MAK-Deco said:


> I would have to disagree with this statement in my experience that regal flat splatters more then most paints I have even used. The matte is certainly better.


I rarely use the flat. If someone wants a flat or close to flat I usually talk them into the Matte as in my original post. What napp are you using? We shouldn't forget that paint manufacturers are constantly changing formulas to save money. I have had excellent performance with this line.


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## samthedog (Mar 15, 2008)

I often have the luxury of building the room to be painted and then painting. This can make life real easy when I pre paint tricky cornices, architraves and skirting boards before they are cut and put in. Pre painted walls have the pre painted tricky bits attached and voila. All I have to do then is take care of the nail holes and small gaps in the joins which is still much faster than cutting in by hand or taping after everything is put up. Only works on new projects though, life would be too easy if it was always that fast.

ps. sorry if my terms (cornices & skirting boards are unfamilliar.... you guys use different names for these I think??) are a bit strange.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

painttofish said:


> I rarely use the flat. If someone wants a flat or close to flat I usually talk them into the Matte as in my original post. What napp are you using? We shouldn't forget that paint manufacturers are constantly changing formulas to save money. I have had excellent performance with this line.


I agree i use matte or eggshell most for walls and flat for ceiling and thats why gave up on regal flat for ceilings... too much money for ceilings and too much splatter also.

For my flat i use a 1/2 in 50/50 or super doo z


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## timhag (Sep 30, 2007)

painttofish said:


> How ironic, this is Ch!psters thread and we can't even type Ch!pster!!:boat::boat:


Boy, when your gone your gone........lol


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Elvis saves, jesus lives, and ******** rocks.


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## timhag (Sep 30, 2007)

******** ....testing to see if his name appears. WOW,,,,thats some funny sh*t. His name can't even be mentioned around here........lol


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

timhag said:


> ******** ....testing to see if his name appears. WOW,,,,thats some funny sh*t. His name can't even be mentioned around here........lol


OK, I give up. what IS his name? 

******** ain't a bad word is it?


WOW, I guess it is. I mean I can write Sh!tsturd and no problem. But not ******** ? 

What gives ????


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## timhag (Sep 30, 2007)

daArch said:


> OK, I give up. what IS his name?
> 
> ******** ain't a bad word is it?
> 
> ...


His name was Ch!pster, a bad seed,PWG gave him the boot for being an arse. Gotta be glad you never had the pleasure of meeting him......lol


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## stansoph (Dec 16, 2007)

timhag said:


> His name was Ch!pster, a bad seed,PWG gave him the boot for being an arse. Gotta be glad you never had the pleasure of meeting him......lol


He told me I could come over and swim in his pool. Oh well.


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## paint_booger (Jul 1, 2007)

Free Hand!


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

timhag said:


> His name was Ch!pster, a bad seed,PWG gave him the boot for being an arse. Gotta be glad you never had the pleasure of meeting him......lol


PWG is good at recognising arses, he's known me for a number of years :thumbup:


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

if a worker had to rely on tape along case to get a straight line, i would fire him,,,,they would be of no use to me

i liked to blue impervo trim work,,,,looked great

one reason masking and spraying trim works well, is that once adjacent surfaces are masked off, its very easy to apply multiple coats very quickly,,,,,,,3 coats is no problem at that point,,,,thats where you can really save time is on the multiple coats,,,,,,and in my opinion the 3rd coat (maybe even a fourth) is what gets the oil looking really good


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

johnthepainter said:


> if a worker had to rely on tape along case to get a straight line, i would fire him,,,,they would be of no use to me


 
They could an apprentice on our crew, but at some point would have to learn to cut.


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

hi scott,,,,nice site,,,,and beautiful country you live in 

i seldom have an apprentice inside homes with me,,,,,i like them on exteriors, but they are of little use to me inside,,,,,id rather have journeymen,,,,,i do very little new construction nowdays, so there isnt much for an apprentice to do on the repaints


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## lugi (May 15, 2009)

I started painting over 25 years this is how i feel. If you never use painters tape that your not a painter. Just like the guy that never cleans his rollers, If i stop cleaning my rollers i would buy 4 to 5 hundred every year. how about the painter thay uses calking on windows not glazing wow you got to love it....


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## flowjo (Apr 25, 2009)

what ive learned along the way is the "pros" think tape is for non pros and the realistic painters realize tape is much needed in certain situations.

basically its a question of knowing where your skill level is at if u feel you should tape that accent color then by all means do it 
personally i always tape outside rounded corners they are a bitch to cut straight thats actually the only thing i tape come to think of it.

today i was looking at a house that was painted by some company where i work and the job was taped everywhere trim and baseboards honestly it looked perfect like a robot designed to paint did it lol taping off will always look better but do u have the time ? really


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

lugi said:


> I started painting over 25 years this is how i feel. If you never use painters tape that your not a painter. Just like the guy that never cleans his rollers, If i stop cleaning my rollers i would buy 4 to 5 hundred every year. how about the painter thay uses calking on windows not glazing wow you got to love it....


its cheaper to toss rollers... time is money and it takes time to clean them... Lambs wool maybe cleaning but I don't use those...


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## lugi (May 15, 2009)

Do people clean brushes or toss 20 dollar purdys out or do they use 3 dollar brushes that dont hold paint...........


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

This is kind of an old post, but a lot of fun anyway.It's really too bad we can't line up all in here that have been so adamant about their abilities and have a paint off.Internet boasting is so much fun for some.


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## daren (Jul 5, 2008)

I like when an old thread surfaces again.

I use tape to hold plastic up for dust control. Usually a carpenter will leave a roll behind that I can snag. Thanks to them I rarely buy it. I'm old skool freehand all the way.


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## Marion (Mar 30, 2009)

Hmmmm.... Tape? Has it been 'round a while?


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

My work is all the proof I need that my way is the best and should be universally mandated as the proper method!

Those who fail to adhere to said technique will be severely punished.


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## Marion (Mar 30, 2009)

*Wisepainter.....*

..... You're cute! LOL!


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## ParagonVA (Feb 3, 2009)

man if this post isn't a reopened can of worms from over a year ago . I was about to respond, but noticed the date on the OP...


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## 1977corey (Feb 27, 2009)

I can free hand anything, i have the skill and i am not conceited to admit it.
BUT..........., i think that if you dont use tape, you basically are a cheap skate, you are LAZY and your prepping skills leave alot to be desired. There is no straighter line than a tape line.
As far as bleeding, that only happens when you SLOP paint up against the tape, tape is only a guide. 3M blue tape is a waste of money i do agree.
I use Intertape low tack, and never had any problems with paint pulling off.
to each his own i guess......


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

1977corey said:


> I can free hand anything, i have the skill and i am not conceited to admit it.
> BUT..........., i think that if you dont use tape, you basically are a cheap skate, you are LAZY and your prepping skills leave alot to be desired. There is no straighter line than a tape line.
> As far as bleeding, that only happens when you SLOP paint up against the tape, tape is only a guide. 3M blue tape is a waste of money i do agree.
> I use Intertape low tack, and never had any problems with paint pulling off.
> to each his own i guess......


Your right: Sometimes this and sometimes that, got to be flexible.Ever house is different from new to old, to worn, to whatever.Got to be able to go with the flow and adapt.


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## Marion (Mar 30, 2009)

I retract everything I've said, thought, typed or did on this thread. I don't exist...................


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Marion said:


> I retract everything I've said, thought, typed or did on this thread. I don't exist...................


 ..........







............

Good one :thumbup:


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## tedrin (Oct 22, 2008)

I always tape baseboards....I value my knees and back too much to cut in BB's every house...Usually there is a bit of touch=up to do if the colour contrast is dramatic...There is sometimes

a 1/64" gap where the tape hits the wall....It just depends on the style and thickness of the baseboard..No biggie.

I'm going to try using clear caulk over tape on the frames in the future as someone suggested......You never know,it might produce better lines and could save me some time...

BTW,Ive used that (blue) tape dispensing machine that someone recommended months ago in this forum and it works fantastic!

Here's a tip to taping baseboards...I use the beige 2020 3m masking tape and always cross roll on the baseboard tape evenly when doing the first coat...You wait until it is fully dy to cut in the baseboard with a brush...
Another way is to dry brush the baseboard with the first cut,let it dry, then roll the first coat...Cross rolling is faster and easier....The cross rolling is the best way to minimize tape bleed through.


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## modhippee (May 28, 2009)

*frogtape thread*

Just stumbled upon this thread http://www.painttalk.com/f12/frog-tape-766/ will do some more research, buy a roll of 2 and keep u posted although nothing beats a sturdy hand I do tend use tape on the baseboard and for striping.


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## ledgestonepainting (Mar 18, 2009)

ComRemodel said:


> _I caught one of my new helpers taping off a heat vent on a white ceiling that was going to be cut and rolled. No more of this foolishness._
> 
> Hate to say it but I prefer to have fixtures, light trims, speaker grills, wall plates, door hardware, etc REMOVED- and that started with customers wanting it. No matter how good you cut or even mask, eventually after a few paint jobs those things are going to look like they have been cut around. If you want to keep everything looking new that's what you have to do.


Ditto. I remove as much as possible. I think it looks better when you have a consistant stipple. I usually will tape of baseboards on a repaint mainly to keep the roller splatter off, as has been said earlier.


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## deftworks (Nov 5, 2009)

*I know this thread is old but...*

I also do about 98% of my lines with the brush but I do find that the tape is good if I'm in a big hurry. I do alot of new crown then repaint walls and trim and I like to get some of the ceiling paint to cover the top caulked line, then I brush the crown then do the walls then do the base. I think if I could find a tape that wouldn't bleed then I would use it alot more because it is faster for me, but I get so pissed when I peel it off and it's bled through. I just ordered some frogtape and we'll see how that does.


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## painting247 (Mar 18, 2009)

Don't have time to tape, just cut it in! 

Besides, taping is a waste of time....if you can't cut in without it......you shouldn't be paid to paint!


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

yeah, and sometimes you don't have time to cut it in. Sometimes its better just to tape a spray the heck out of it, and go home.


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## linkbrothers (Sep 11, 2009)

I use tape over electrical and light sockets after I remove the switchplates. Also on the top edge of baseboards for spatter protection and on other surfaces as required. In most cases the tape is to protect something from accidental paint spatter and not for cut lines. 

I almost never use tape for cut lines ... but never say never. If I have to transition between two colours on a rounded corner bead, then I use tape. I sometimes prefer to tape along the bottom of baseboards if the floor is hardwood. I do this because it's tedious to do two cut lines. BUT I would only do this if I was doing more than one coat. 

For the most part, I always freehand my cuts. It's faster, frees you from taping everything, is more professional and looks better. And I found my cut lines improve considerably once I started wearing my reading glasses.


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## Picky Painter (Oct 7, 2009)

Wow, old thread. If it's sprayed trim, the top of the baseboard gets tape for spatter protection. If it's brushed trim, I cut in the base after the walls. I get that nice crisp line, cover over any incidental spatter and I didn't use any tape.


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## Bighead (Nov 28, 2008)

painting247 said:


> Don't have time to tape, just cut it in!
> 
> Besides, taping is a waste of time....if you can't cut in without it......you shouldn't be paid to paint!


Wow! We can cut just fine, but prefer tape because it's faster and the lines are perfect (especially with dark colors against white woodwork). I've been in business for over ten years servicing high end interiors, but in your opinion I'm not worthy of being paid? :thumbsup:


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Yeah: It's easy to make statements like this, but really, every house is different. In some I use tape, in some I don't, and in some I use tape in one room and no tape in another.A guy has to go with the flow and be ready to change up if need be.


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## One Coat Coverage (Oct 4, 2009)

painting247 said:


> Don't have time to tape, just cut it in!
> 
> Besides, taping is a waste of time....if you can't cut in without it......you shouldn't be paid to paint!


Knowing how to tape, is as much of a skill as cutting in. Actually, it takes more practice to become a professional taper. I can have an entire room half taped by the time one of my guys has the paint ready to go. I used to have the same attitude as you, but once you are an inhuman taping machine such as myself, you would throw that cutting in egotistical nonsense out the window. I get extremly straight cut lines from tapeing and we paint rooms at twice the speed.


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## painting247 (Mar 18, 2009)

Bighead said:


> Wow! We can cut just fine, but prefer tape because it's faster and the lines are perfect (especially with dark colors against white woodwork). I've been in business for over ten years servicing high end interiors, but in your opinion I'm not worthy of being paid? :thumbsup:


*Okay, Okay guys back down.....*I said: If you CAN'T cut in without it. I didn't say taping doesn't have it's place. Believe it or not: I USE IT TOO there are some ocassions that I USE TAPE too. I just don't rely on it to cut in.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

I think it's about time to have a cut-in contest.


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## painting247 (Mar 18, 2009)

I'm IN


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## 4ThGeneration (Apr 17, 2007)

I tape base, ceiling fans to cover with plastic, outdoor fixtures if they can not be removed ect ect. I hate taping. I suck at taping because for the majority I free hand everything.

I always wanted to hire a tape guy and may do that when I go full force in Spring with exteriors once more. 

As much as I hate the spray jockeys I did see one heck of a crew do their thing back in Florida.

They had a prep crew for caulking, putting, and taping. Then they had a spray crew that was followed by a brush crew to cut all in and do the details. They would go through 6-8 a week and their work was not half bad because they did not expect a spray man to understand or have to learn to use a brush.


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

Mortals.

:brows:


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## tntpainting (Apr 3, 2008)

thats a case by case thing with me too every job is different but im not above any thing like that if it improves the end result


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## playedout6 (Apr 27, 2009)

johnpaint said:


> I think it's about time to have a cut-in contest.



LOL...I'll get in on some of that action as I can cut with both hands...just not at the same time hehe . It does save me a lot of time cutting in the wall/ceils in a big room as well as prolong the life of my weary knees .


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## IHATE_HOMEDEPOT (May 27, 2008)

I dare someone to try and hand that guy in the Accubrush ad a roll.


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## robert hosey (Nov 8, 2009)

Alex PCI said:


> stripes are the only thing we tape. When it comes to trim, a freehand line looks best


i dont car how good ur brush skills may be when it comes to crisp clean lines tape is the way ... if your worried about bleeding ; dont go so heavy on matierial or run a thin bead of alex,s


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## robert hosey (Nov 8, 2009)

Mandrake said:


> Its a matter of production folks, not pride. I grew up in the business when taping was for amatuers only. You have to look at the cost of tape against the potential time saved and quality product. I could cut in with the best but found that taping sometimes saved time and aggravation. I don't paint much anymore but typically liked to tape off baseboards to keep the roller spray off.
> 
> Try doing a couple rooms both ways and monitoring time and material. Go for production and quality.
> 
> mandrake


i agree ive done the cutin math especialy up against stain grade trim. the time that it takes to cutin a sweet line 2 coats is longer. plus , no matter what ur cutin skills r youll never get a sweeter line then bluetaping....if ur worried about bleeding dont go so heavy on matiral, its 2 coat anyways, it will cover....


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

******** said:


> :notworthy: I know, you real pros free hand cutting in and trim but what does it take to to get you to break out the blue tape and mask off something?



base trim.


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

robert hosey said:


> no matter what ur cutin skills r youll never get a sweeter line then bluetaping....


:no:


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

It is funny how we painters are so sensitive about being able to cut in good.I guess it stands to reason.


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

I will say that it depends on what it is you are painting. Hell some stuff could REALLY use tape, while others it is best to freehand. I will tape areas on an exterior or other types of jobs, because you would be a fool to waste the time with potentially having to go over a spot 2 times cutting in when 1 time after being taped and masked could be done. Time is money, and tape is money, but if you save time with tape you gain money.. IMHO.

EDIT: that being said.. I don't like to tape and will cut in critical areas


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## capitalcity painting (Apr 28, 2008)

Im surprised how many people actually tape on here. We hardly ever tape, mostly only on stripes and stuff like that. I might try and tape a job in the near future and see about the time savings, always looking for a way to make more money. But I have to say that many HO's love the fact that we get those lines free hand and almost all of them tell us so. I just wonder if we start taping will they say "hell I can do that myself and will next time."


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

Free hand, even or especially for the apprentices.
Taping we use for roller spatter or stripes.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

I can make it simple, from now on if I paint the same house over and over again, I will do one or the other.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

johnpaint said:


> I can make it simple, from now on if I paint the same house over and over again, I will do one or the other.


what a master of diplomacy....

or double speak :thumbup:

Myself, I prefer to do what's best, and I know what is best for me which may not be the best for others unless they have what is best for me in mind for the best possible results on the job that is required to have the best done on it.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Bill: I just full of sheat


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## zico (Apr 13, 2008)

I have a confession to make. When I started in this business I used tape and I demanded it of my crew. This is because the customer asked, "Äre we going to use tape" or "You are going to use tape".

Now I cannot for the life of me, see why we should use tape except when trying to tame those corners that are spec'd as an accent wall and the drywaller/taper was not a drywaller/taper. You know...


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## bigjeffie61520 (Oct 3, 2009)

i tape the returns on door jambs. i can freehand it, but it is cleaner and faster to tape. i will tape hinge plates also.

unless i cant get a good brush angle, I freehand everything else.

i take off everything,; receptacle covers, mirrors, bathroom accessories, door knobs

on my last job i swapped out all the hinges some idiot had painted. the homeowner loved it


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## y.painting (Jul 19, 2009)

robert hosey said:


> i agree ive done the cutin math especialy up against stain grade trim. the time that it takes to cutin a sweet line 2 coats is longer. plus , no matter what ur cutin skills r youll never get a sweeter line then bluetaping....if ur worried about bleeding dont go so heavy on matiral, its 2 coat anyways, it will cover....


:no::no::no:
If I caught you taping on the job around typical ceiling/trim cutins, we'd have to have a long talk. By the time you finish applying the tape, a skilled guy should be almost done cutting in...and then there's the removal and the costs of the tape itself.


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## TrueColors (Jul 30, 2010)

Always free hand. Trim,Ceilings,Base, Transition colors, all done by hand.... the only way i will bust out tape is when im in a bathroom trying to paint the small strip of wall left between the mirror and corner. Oh and rounded corners, i tape those to get a nice crisp line. Im sure there are a few other small tedious things i use it for.... 
To tape everything off wouldn't be to cost effective...also looks amateur in my eyes.


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## mblosik (Jan 3, 2009)

hey true colors---where you from? recognize the company name from my area...


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## JoeG (Jul 9, 2010)

Taping is a waste of time if you arent skilled at it. IMO there is no task more difficult than taping and if done right the results are amazing. Baseboards, trim, heating vents


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## throbak (Jun 26, 2010)

Tape for dough, freehand for show. I was a freehand snob, then I moved to a college town. We mask the stained base of townhouse/apartment turnovers with 2" Shurtape, and smack the knitted 18er full of Coronado flat enamel right down against it, no bleed thru, no drops. $8 for tape and minutes masking way beats the time wiping base with a wet rag, or freehanding.


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## timalpha1 (Mar 20, 2012)

free hand or die!


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## Bighead (Nov 28, 2008)

"free hand or die!"

That's a bit harsh. So next time we tape someone should kill us? I free handed for ten years then learned to tape. I have to say the most enjoyable part of most projects is applying tape because it's the home stretch. I was most frustrated with how chair rails would come out when we free handed, now with tape the results are spectacular especially with dark colors.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Both are good depending on what's going on.

How did I miss this gem of a thread?

I wonder who's the best cuter-inner here?

Lets have a contest...


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## playedout6 (Apr 27, 2009)

I have been doing mostly all our cutting the last 30 years...and I feel pretty confident I can hold my own with anybody...Left handed or Right & fast and straight !!!! :thumbsup: LOL...but I would never want to say I was the best...that would be quite a Throne to hold !!! I had hired a guy last Summer that everybody had told me was a good painter since he did it for 30 years...well let me tell you...he has no clue on how to cut or roll properly and I have to try and retrain him which is almost impossible . This undoubtedly will be his last Summer with us...I'm getting to old and impatient to start retraining guys and it looks like he does not want to change . He could be doing a lot of shingle scraping this Summer !


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## UpandComing (Mar 21, 2012)

We Put Tape down then caulk it with Clear caulk (so it does not bleed), Cut in right away and then remove tape before the paint drys. The lines are sooo straight, I dont see how you could match that with just "free hand". Maybe Im wrong. I have become pretty fats with this technique,


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

TJ Paint said:


> Both are good depending on what's going on.
> 
> How did I miss this gem of a thread?
> 
> ...


 
I do believe OLY has that title


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## champer71 (Mar 12, 2012)

MAK-Deco said:


> Just finish this one this week, no tape  BTW the trim is Muralos waterborne in high gloss... The owners are greek. The room w/ the chair rail will get a toned stripe above the CRail next week
> Scott - I agree the red into white would be a challege


 lookn good!


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## champer71 (Mar 12, 2012)

nothn more satisfyn, when it is a good day & u can lay dem lines right in there. "freehand" let's face it EGOBOOST.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

TJ Paint said:


> Both are good depending on what's going on.
> 
> How did I miss this gem of a thread?
> 
> ...


 I vote for StraightLines.


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## HJ61 (Nov 14, 2011)

Both have there place. Sometimes paint is too fresh in transition areas and tape will damage the finish. Tape can keep lines consistent between painters and crews. We mask sides of window and door frames, paint walls, then freehand final coat to the baseboards last. Only one tape worth masking with, Frogtape. Its satisfiying and freshly cut in base looks great. All the client needs to see you do is cut in to the ceiling w/o tape and that will blow their mind. Then you can do what you want after that.


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## champer71 (Mar 12, 2012)

It's not the fact that usn tape makes u a rookie, no more than not usn tape makes u a pro! I never could tape properly so I learned how 2 use my brush properlyB-)


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## Finn (Dec 18, 2011)

Would I be smiled on by suggesting that as the gaffers of our companies that it is impossible for any employee to meet out standards? I have done free hand for about 25 years and have never met anyone who could cut a line as straight as I do, or that is the bubble I probably dream in anyways. It was a common practice for each painter and decorator in Ireland to have his own signature on his work not just by cut ins but by the way they scumbled etc, it was actually a fashion so to speak, myself? I actually bring the ceiling down onto the wall about 1-2 mil this is actually my signature cut it, and suits me and is easy for my style. It looks Dan good also. But friends here is our dilemma ! How to I get my other two teams to do this? Simple I get them to replicate it using tape! Edge lock by 3m is the best I have ever used, does this eat up labor hours? Yes if your unorganized it will be the death of you. 
We were blessed by getting a foot in the door of a very large organization that could keep two to three painters in bread and butter work for 365 24/7 . It's a high end retirement community and each property has 200+ rooms

The maintains fe manager told me he expects a good job but only has a day to do a room, he showed me how he uses a roller and a long taping knife to cut in his lines for speed. Granted the poor guy needed to do this to get his room finished , I was actually there bidding the job when I seen that his arse was flat against the wall. I told him I could be in my whites with another guy and helping him within the hour , we did and he observed the way I was cutting in, he said he didn't have time for doing that.

We had a chat I told him my father and his father taught this technique, my mentor in London in 1996 from City and Guilds that was accessing me for my merit said he was a disappearing joy of painting! 

I gave him a per room rate and guaranteed him that each room would. E completed in 9 hours, all fixtures and fittings unscrewed, floor completely masked up, all surfaces every inch would feel the rush of sandpaper and filler. Not caulk where needed. Room and surfaces would be completely cleaned wiped down and vacuumed before a drop of paint would touch any surface. 

I told him when he came into the room at the painting stage it would be a nice place to be, with Enya playing in the back ground and he would see two painters one a craftsman and one who wanted to be with a passion! 

And ever cut in line would look just like mine but may be replicated by tape, the quality of workmanship would be one that would make his heart skip a beat. 

And all of this would. BE done quicker, than any project he had done. The price would be Acceptable and be would be a less stressed and happier man. For it.

I will teach my painters how to do their trait to achieve the standards I require, that our company requires but I have learned not to expect them to have the same desire and passion for perfection, so I provide the tools and direction for them to deliver the same visual result.

Guys 

Using tape to get the lines required is a necessity today !

By the way I am starting a Blog designed to help guys like your selves keep the virtues of our trade alive and to help you identify those who can be taught to learn it and pass it on. Some of us need to accept the fact that it's time for us to teach and lead rather than paint most of our time.

I have a good system and template that I won't share on the page but will gladly tell you about if any of you wish to call me, it would be nice to connect with some of you outside the realms of Internet 

My number is 720-425-5922 Brian Finnegan Painter and Decorator

Be Blessed

P.S. not every job you do will turn a profit, but it may turn the hearts of you customers when they see you applying the traits of the craftsman. It will without doubt prosper you and your labor will hear fruit which may not bloom right away but will eventually. 

For any of you facing a hard time in the industry , keep the chin up have hope, go back to what you love doing best within this, papering, training, faux etc it is there you will find rest and your customers will see you at you best. 

Be Blessed friends I hope you all have a great day.

Oh and we got the contract by the way


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Finn said:


> Would I be smiled on by suggesting that as the gaffers of our companies that it is impossible for any employee to meet out standards? I have done free hand for about 25 years and have never met anyone who could cut a line as straight as I do, or that is the bubble I probably dream in anyways. It was a common practice for each painter and decorator in Ireland to have his own signature on his work not just by cut ins but by the way they scumbled etc, it was actually a fashion so to speak, myself? I actually bring the ceiling down onto the wall about 1-2 mil this is actually my signature cut it, and suits me and is easy for my style. It looks Dan good also. But friends here is our dilemma ! How to I get my other two teams to do this? Simple I get them to replicate it using tape! Edge lock by 3m is the best I have ever used, does this eat up labor hours? Yes if your unorganized it will be the death of you.
> We were blessed by getting a foot in the door of a very large organization that could keep two to three painters in bread and butter work for 365 24/7 . It's a high end retirement community and each property has 200+ rooms
> 
> The maintains fe manager told me he expects a good job but only has a day to do a room, he showed me how he uses a roller and a long taping knife to cut in his lines for speed. Granted the poor guy needed to do this to get his room finished , I was actually there bidding the job when I seen that his arse was flat against the wall. I told him I could be in my whites with another guy and helping him within the hour , we did and he observed the way I was cutting in, he said he didn't have time for doing that.
> ...


I have seen this done. I do not undestand the concept:blink:


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## HQP2005 (Feb 14, 2012)

I just recently started to tape off interior windows when doing more than one coat, man this saves time. 

otherwise its free hand except for baseboards on hardwood floors (and of course certain situations where its absolutley nessacasry)


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

chrisn said:


> I do believe OLY has that title


lol Ole. Where'd he go?


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

TJ Paint said:


> lol Ole. Where'd he go?


He cut out!:whistling2:


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## Finn (Dec 18, 2011)

chrisn said:


> I have seen this done. I do not undestand the concept:blink:


I have to add that only do this on uneven ceilings . Basically if a ceiling is slightly beveled you can notice it more if the wall paint is cut straight into the wall ceiling joint, so I would normally cut the ceiling onto the wall a mil or two as it makes the ceiling look straight.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

chrisn said:


> I have seen this done. I do not undestand the concept:blink:


Tape line with ceiling done last, calk the tape line with the mil exposed caulk has transfer to wall, wipe calk with a wet rag, idea is to seal the edge of tape. Paint and pull. Pulling at right dry time is a devil learned by experience. High end production 101.i have no problem sharing, knowing how to run tape gaps, and seal correctly is something only repetition can teach. This skill is an adaptation of large area production spraying.


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## jdr0411 (Mar 18, 2012)

I started out in my grandpa's painting business when I was 19. The man was absolutely appalled by painters who used tape. I didn't fully understand until I started my own company and realized how much cheaper/faster it is to do it by hand.


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## ColorQuest (Mar 19, 2012)

Similar story here jdr, cutting for me is Zen like. Customers are always impressed when they see you free hand cutting perfect lines with dark grey wall paint on a shotty ceiling corner. You can't tape that.


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## ColorQuest (Mar 19, 2012)

Just realized this thread was 19 years old, crazy.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

mudbone said:


> He cut out!:whistling2:


Maybe a behr got him on a hike?:thumbsup:


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

TJ Paint said:


> Maybe a behr got him on a hike?:thumbsup:


damn behr would spit him out:whistling2:


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

ColorQuest said:


> Just realized this thread was 19 years old, crazy.


2012 - 2008 = 19 ? Four years is enough - don't make it longer. 

Although the subject of this thread is one of those that seems to be timeless.


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## jdr0411 (Mar 18, 2012)

I just use the "Current" tab that's on the new iPhone app to see what's going on. If there is a new post it will show up under this tab regardless if the thread was started 19 years ago. I need to watch out for that better


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## pacificpainters.com (May 5, 2011)

I train my students to be able to cut in free hand. When I took Ana (Fijian Painter) to the regional world skills competition held in Australia, she used tape. I could not stop her during the competition, but it slowed her down alot and it was no where as neat as she normally does. 

At the end of the competition and I said, "Why did you use tape?" 

She then said, "I saw all these experienced Australian painters use tape and I thought I had too." 

I think she would have scored higher if she did free hand.

Article on Ana at the competition

Here is a video of the pre competition selection held in Fiji, it show the line work they do free hand.


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## Dbo (Nov 29, 2009)

I take off everything that can be removed. Tape all trim and outlets and anything that cant be removed. I use a 4in whizz roller for cutting trim and corners. I brush cut ceiling lines then roll walls. If ceilings getting done I do the same whizz the corners and roll. 

I'm real good and fast at taping and find it to be faster than brushing everything plus no brush marks. I can cut straight lines but prefer to tape. I get a little bleed here and there but cleans off easily with a wet rag and 5 in 1.


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## ninecuts (Mar 20, 2012)

An edger beats tape and freehand. case closed.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

ninecuts said:


> An edger beats tape and freehand. case closed.


Dang it! And just when I was going to jump in again. Thanks a lot nc!


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

ninecuts said:


> An edger beats tape and freehand. case closed.


 Thats called a crutch!:whistling2:


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

ninecuts said:


> An edger beats tape and freehand. case closed.


 whats an edger:blink:


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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

Funny....I don't know anyone who freehands. I may give this freehand style a go.


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## Finn (Dec 18, 2011)

pacificpainters.com said:


> I train my students to be able to cut in free hand. When I took Ana (Fijian Painter) to the regional world skills competition held in Australia, she used tape. I could not stop her during the competition, but it slowed her down alot and it was no where as neat as she normally does.
> 
> At the end of the competition and I said, "Why did you use tape?"
> 
> ...


One of the biggest obstacles in modern day apprenticeships and the hardest thing to get people to understand that they have got what it takes, I think she learned a valuable lesson that day and it highlighted something about her that can be easily tendered to, might now be time to get her to mentor someone less experienced in cutting in so that she can see and experience the faith you have in her. 

Cheers for that post mate, I appreciate it, my response is just me thinking out loud and telling myself the same thing sometimes.

I will be training two new people ( God Willing) on Monday Morning , I love teaching but better than that I love to watch people learn what can't be taught, 

Be Blessed today folks


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## Finn (Dec 18, 2011)

jdr0411 said:


> I just use the "Current" tab that's on the new iPhone app to see what's going on. If there is a new post it will show up under this tab regardless if the thread was started 19 years ago. I need to watch out for that better


Awesome isn't it!!!


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## salmangeri (Sep 13, 2008)

there was a post on here awhile back in ref. to taping vs cutting in free hand...I was surprised to see how many contractors taped.....while we mostly freehand the results from a good tape job is impressive. and you don't have to have real skilled labor to brush a straight line in against taped trim ....we have one guy on our crew than can cut razor lines freehand in dark colors....mostly use him to do first cutins than have whoever follow his work the second time around.


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## wills fresh coat (Nov 17, 2011)

chrisn said:


> whats an edger:blink:


Not that I would use it but I would like to know also


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

chrisn said:


> whats an edger:blink:





wills fresh coat said:


> Not that I would use it but I would like to know also


Let's hope it's not an Accubrush. :shutup:


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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

pacificpainters.com said:


> I train my students to be able to cut in free hand. When I took Ana (Fijian Painter) to the regional world skills competition held in Australia, she used tape. I could not stop her during the competition, but it slowed her down alot and it was no where as neat as she normally does.
> 
> At the end of the competition and I said, "Why did you use tape?"
> 
> ...


Awsome. In Canada, there is no training or school for painters.


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## pacificpainters.com (May 5, 2011)

Finn said:


> I will be training two new people ( God Willing) on Monday Morning , I love teaching but better than that I love to watch people learn what can't be taught,
> 
> Be Blessed today folks


All the best with the training, funny thing you mentioned Ana mentoring others. After the competition I employed her and she is now training my son and another two girls. She also comes into college sometimes to do bit of mentoring.

I totally agree with your comments. I have the best job in the world!!!:thumbup:


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## salmangeri (Sep 13, 2008)

While cutting a straight line is challenging I feel the area between where the ceiling meets the wall or the molding meets the wall /ceiling is key in how the cut lines turn out. How many times have you come up against molding that has be over caulked leaving a type of U or curved shape between the two surfaces. Or the drywall finisher leaves an uneven edge between the ceiling and the wall. No such thing as cutting against a nice true 90 degree angle in our line of work.


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## TNpainter (Dec 7, 2011)

Free hand takes patience and skill tape is for DIY and wannabes I can freehand a room damn straight might I add by the time u get it taped off. Where have the skilled tradesmen gone 8(


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

For me, the room (and area) I hate to cut in most is usually an attic room where on two sides the ceiling slopes down to meet the wall at around four to five feet. That line where the sloping ceiling and wall meet is rarely even, level, straight, or sharp but is close enough to eye level to be highly visible. Often the room was finished as an afterthought, sometimes by a professional but often by the HO. Regardless, when the ceiling is to be white and the walls some other color, getting a decent line there can be a real b!tch.


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

researchhound said:


> For me, the room (and area) I hate to cut in most is usually an attic room where on two sides the ceiling slopes down to meet the wall at around four to five feet. That line where the sloping ceiling and wall meet is rarely even, level, straight, or sharp but is close enough to eye level to be highly visible. Often the room was finished as an afterthought, sometimes by a professional but often by the HO. Regardless, when the ceiling is to be white and the walls some other color, getting a decent line there can be a real b!tch.


If you hand cut those....my hat is off to you. On these type of 3/4 ceilings I'll do the ceiling then tape a line just above the knee wall...UNLESS that line is straight or there is something to cut to, which 9.9 out of 10 it isn't.


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

Example:


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

researchhound said:


> For me, the room (and area) I hate to cut in most is usually an attic room where on two sides the ceiling slopes down to meet the wall at around four to five feet. That line where the sloping ceiling and wall meet is rarely even, level, straight, or sharp but is close enough to eye level to be highly visible. Often the room was finished as an afterthought, sometimes by a professional but often by the HO. Regardless, when the ceiling is to be white and the walls some other color, getting a decent line there can be a real b!tch.


 Use an edger!:whistling2:


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## salmangeri (Sep 13, 2008)

to each his own on taping....we don't tape but have read of some contractors that make it a standard practice... I could see where it would give you more flexiblity in who you have cutting in the room....I've seen guys in business over 20 years that are still "chasing snakes" in their cut lines...


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## scottjr (Jan 14, 2012)

I cut in without tape. I will use tape on baseboards and chair if they arent getting painted to eliminate splatter.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

mudbone said:


> Use an edger!:whistling2:


So who is this "Edger" and how did he become so famous for cutting in? :whistling2:


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## DrSmeller (Mar 24, 2012)

Tape is a pretty good sign someone doesn't know how to paint. Unless of course it's horizontal surfaces to control splatter/drips. I helped a friend to paint his living room which had natural rough sawn cedar trim. No poly/varnish, just stained rough sawn wood. He remarked about all the tape i used but i said there's no way to wipe any splatter and i've learned the hard way it's easier to tape than have a difficult clean up project at the end of the job. Tape and plastic can be your best insurance against problems. For cutting in no; you have to learn proper brush techniques if you're going to paint for a living.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Paint and Hammer said:


> If you hand cut those....my hat is off to you. On these type of 3/4 ceilings I'll do the ceiling then tape a line just above the knee wall...UNLESS that line is straight or there is something to cut to, which 9.9 out of 10 it isn't.


Yeah pretty much the same here - and it's the only time I use tape for a ceiling cut. I also often bring out my long level and put down pencil marks to line the tape up with. Although that isn't fool proof and a little tweaking is usually needed to make the eye see a good line that's really somewhere between level and straight. Still, I hate doing those types of rooms and doing the ceiling and walls the same color solves a lot of problems and the HO some coin.


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

researchhound said:


> Yeah pretty much the same here - and it's the only time I use tape for a ceiling cut. I also often bring out my long level and put down pencil marks to line the tape up with. Although that isn't fool proof and a little tweaking is usually needed to make the eye see a good line that's really somewhere between level and straight. Still, I hate doing those types of rooms and doing the ceiling and walls the same color solves a lot of problems and the HO some coin.


See it a lot in the old lathe and plaster homes where nothing is straight, level or plumb!....its a game of illusion sometimes.


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

researchhound said:


> I also often bring out my long level and put down pencil marks to line the tape up with.


I use my laser when doing things of this sort.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Paint and Hammer said:


> See it a lot in the old lathe and plaster homes where nothing is straight, level or plumb!....its a game of illusion sometimes.


And thats half of my work. The cut line has to _LOOK_ straight, not be strait. :yes:


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Did a place last month were all the windows and doors, plus the new trim, were replaced _before_ they had me in to paint. Fairly heavy texture and I swear the finish carpenter must have scribed lines at the edge of the trim and sanded away the texture prior to install. That or he used a rubber mallet to smash the trim down. The texture was easily a 1/32 proud over the trim where it met the wall. Fortunately I was able to factor the extra time into the bid but regardless, I could have shot that guy.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

ProWallGuy said:


> I use my laser when doing things of this sort.


Me too - once in awhile. Gives me a chance to use that outfit I once bought on impulse at a sci-fi convention... :whistling2:


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> And thats half of my work. The cut line has to LOOK straight, not be strait. :yes:


Exactly! 

Hmmmm....makes me think we should start a thread on tips and tricks for doing OLD homes.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

DrSmeller said:


> Tape is a pretty good sign someone doesn't know how to paint...


And this is your opinion.


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## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

I can produce a clean cut so i try and free hand as much as i can, but at the same token ive also seen some guys than can run through tape and mask and get some awesome results in almost the same time. 

I dont like taping, creates more waste to the planet, PITA for me..just my .02. 

Kind of depends on the application IMO..those that free hand seem to want to let their ego get in the way and bash on those that tape. 

True alot of guys tape because they cant cut for their life, from an honest observation alot of guys tape because they can get awesome results

What works for you? ask that and proceed


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## Finn (Dec 18, 2011)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> And thats half of my work. The cut line has to LOOK straight, not be strait. :yes:


Thats a good answer right there, it's actually the only answer !!!!! Do plasterers have straight lines?


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## ninecuts (Mar 20, 2012)

Oh sorry.. yes, an edger is a paint pad with a handle and wheels.









Shur-line seems to have improved those wheels since i last used one. They tilt.


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## TNpainter (Dec 7, 2011)

The attic rooms ur talking AB I've always faked a line give the illusion there's a straight line if ceilings r painted paint first lap down on wall 1/8" then u can fake a line when u cut back into the ceiling I agree I've never seen a strait even or crisp corner there. Damn sheetrockers lol


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

In my circle if a man used tape to cut in walls in a brush and roll situation he'd get laid-off.


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## DanielMDollaPainting (Feb 24, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Ohhh boy....
> 
> Here it goes... :innocent:
> 
> ...


 I'm sure your lines are impeccable. My only problem with all this is dry time. Caulk dries slow, especially when applied thick. I only use tape for splatter on stained or base that doesn't get painted. Other painted base will get a second coat after rolling on the way out. So if you do the trim in a room before walls,how do you put tape on the trim as soon as it sets up without pulling offf the fresh paint. To make a living I need to hit the trim and then cut the wall into it as soon as it sets up.


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## aaapaintingcolorado (Dec 17, 2011)

Jason, I commend your practice, as it is exactly how we paint our lines. You cannot work in a $1,000,000 home and not leave them with razor sharp lines on every surface. I was first taught this method by a fellow painter who specializes in custom homes.Now I know some of those out there insist their hand-drawn line is the only way to handle imperfect walls, unions, etc., but CREATING a perfect line in an area that it never existed is the entire point of the tape. At times, I would also compare it to automotive tape lines. It is a true art in itself. Let's not forget, that no painting business can exist without also being able to draw a perfect line with no tape. Show me a truly custom home, and you will never see a hand drawn trim line, never. Ceiling lines, and a few other areas mandate the perfect line to be drawn freehand. So, for all of you out there: You must master both methods to be a master in the paint world.



[email protected] said:


> Ohhh boy....
> 
> Here it goes... :innocent:
> 
> ...


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Actually a lot of remodel work around here gets done without any hand cut lines, including ceiling lines. On bigger jobs the guys will prep, prime, caulk and shoot the trim, except the don't caulk the base / case to the walls until after shooting the trim. Mask the base / case, staying off the edge just a tick, caulk the base / cAse, paint the walls not worrying about getting a perfect line on ceiling, slop onto it a little, then they mask the ceiling line, draping plastic all the way over the walls, trim etc, and seal the ceiling tape line with the wall color (optional as since you're going to spray & back roll ceiling paint, the spray at the wall line won't typically bleed anyways. 
I didn't tape for maybe the first 15 plus years, but realized that the tape and seal with caulk or paint does provide superior lines. It's not called for all the time, but for custom work and especially for dark accent colors it makes all the difference. IMO of course. 
All my guys can cut super nice lines, but as someone alluded to this type of system allows for less skilled workers to still turn out really sharp work.


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## mosby (Mar 23, 2012)

When I first started out I was a taping fiend. It took some practice, but now I cut whenever possible. Taping just takes too long in most cases and the results are usually not as good as cutting. So now I tape mainly for spatter protection as others have mentioned.


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## HJ61 (Nov 14, 2011)

mosby said:


> Taping just takes too long in most cases and the results are usually not as good as cutting.


There are a few reasons I guess: (these comments are in general and are not directed at any one in particular)
-Can't tape a straight line. 
-Tape is wrong for the surface and paint bleeds.
-Tape is wrong for the product used and paint bleeds.
-Didn't sell the trim repaint so it's dirty and tape wont adhere so paint bleeds.
-That cheap "green painters tape" doesn't stick, allows bleeds and is a pita to remove.

Best tape hands down is the Frog Tape. Works like a charm. Expensive but if you can get a deal on 50 rolls it's close to the other inferior options.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

I thought about it but naw, ain't going to read this thread no more.


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## pacificpainters.com (May 5, 2011)

TJ, Noooooooooooo! :wallbash:


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

pacificpainters.com said:


> TJ, Noooooooooooo! :wallbash:


Actually, I saw a post with a pic you had up above. I'm going to find that post and read it. 

Ah man, then I'll probably start reading other posts adjacent to yours...

Jeez, what's the use. Fricken PT got me again!


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

ninecuts said:


> An edger beats tape and freehand. case closed.


Well I saw this post about 2 mins into working my way through this thread and getting caught up.

I guess I can quit reading now.


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## TERRY365PAINTER (Jul 26, 2009)

I read most of this thread , damn mess me up yesterday. Brushed all day yesterday . Horrible 
Train wreck job ! Crooked ceiling lines , thought about taping . Re cut all my ceiling again with ceiling paint . Re caulked I like to run the top line of my caulk bead . Not with messed up texture . 
Old condo 30 years of neglect . Came out better thAn I thought . I can be pretty hard on myself . 
I pretty much mask base . Not always though ! 
Tape has its place . My biggest problem is trying 
To go to fast and I drink to mush coffee . Lol


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

TERRY365PAINTER said:


> I read most of this thread , damn mess me up yesterday. Brushed all day yesterday . Horrible
> Train wreck job ! Crooked ceiling lines , thought about taping . Re cut all my ceiling again with ceiling paint . Re caulked I like to run the top line of my caulk bead . Not with messed up texture .
> Old condo 30 years of neglect . Came out better thAn I thought . I can be pretty hard on myself .
> I pretty much mask base . Not always though !
> ...


I really really hate this thread.


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## propainterJ (Jan 31, 2011)

Why is cutting in one of the most valued skills a painter has?

If the line is straight,the HO dont give a rat's behind how it got that way.

If it looks good it is good,Ican teach anybody to tape a straight line,not everybody can do it freehand with a brush.


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## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

propainterJ said:


> Why is cutting in one of the most valued skills a painter has?
> 
> If the line is straight,the HO dont give a rat's behind how it got that way.
> 
> If it looks good it is good,Ican teach anybody to tape a straight line,not everybody can do it freehand with a brush.


Exactly.


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## Finn (Dec 18, 2011)

propainterJ said:


> Why is cutting in one of the most valued skills a painter has?
> 
> If the line is straight,the HO dont give a rat's behind how it got that way.
> 
> If it looks good it is good,Ican teach anybody to tape a straight line,not everybody can do it freehand with a brush.


When alls said and done, this is a fact


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## dillindog (Apr 9, 2012)

I agree...cutting in is faster, however after twenty years I find that I really like the clean line tape produces. It looks new and tight. I can tape fast and I think homeowners like the look. Nnot needed for outlet areas or ceiling fans. 3M sensitive tape rocks! It hasn't left any adhesive on my walls, and I take it off immediately.


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