# ADVANCE Waterborne Interior Alkyd



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Anyone use it yet? What are your opinions? Just noticed it on the site, haven't seen it in my local store, but it uses genex tint. Its alkyd waterborne so it should be tough as nails and have the benefits of not being oil based. 



NC you stock this? 

Product page.


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## 4ThGeneration (Apr 17, 2007)

straight_lines said:


> Anyone use it yet? What are your opinions? Just noticed it on the site, haven't seen it in my local store, but it uses genex tint. Its alkyd waterborne so it should be tough as nails and have the benefits of not being oil based.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Now I know why they carried Murallo all these years. Contractors paid them for the product. They got free feedback on the product. They had time to find out the products makeup via a chemicst in my opinion lol. Good move on their part. BM makes good products in the higher end area. Just ask for a gallon for a demo. Never tried it myself.


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

That does sound interesting- wonder if it is tintable in the BM colors?


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Says colors available white, but the primer which looks bad ass as well can go to a pastel tint. NC should be able to tell us more.


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## TheRogueBristle (Mar 19, 2010)

Thanks for the heads up. Will be watching this thread.


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## Ranger72 (Jul 3, 2010)

I have been thinking of trying it. Maybe I will pick up a gallon soon and report back.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

Isn't it interesting how all these paint manufacturers/companies were touting the quality of their new waterborne/100% Acrylics as great replacements for the oil paints of yesteryear. And as soon as they figure out how to suspend an oil molecule in water - it's right back to 'oil' based paints again. They'll probably eventually figure out how to get them to maintain 'stretch' as well. Ten years from now, all paints, interior and exterior will be oil/alkyd based - and we'll all look back at those 'latex' years with fond memories.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

I got to demo it at a Arborcoat seminar a few months back. I only brushed out a few feet on some stock they had laying around, but it seemed to handle just like oil base satin impervo. It has all the advantages and disadvantages of traditional oils, great looking finish, yellows with time but soap and water clean up.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

plainpainter said:


> Isn't it interesting how all these paint manufacturers/companies were touting the quality of their new waterborne/100% Acrylics as great replacements for the oil paints of yesteryear. And as soon as they figure out how to suspend an oil molecule in water - it's right back to 'oil' based paints again. They'll probably eventually figure out how to get them to maintain 'stretch' as well. Ten years from now, all paints, interior and exterior will be oil/alkyd based - and we'll all look back at those 'latex' years with fond memories.


Ben Moore has been doing alkyd fortified acrylic of 10 or more years in their premimum exterior line, which is why I use so much mooreglo soft gloss. Its really great paint, and I can't seem to find anything that can compare in that $35 price range.


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## TheRogueBristle (Mar 19, 2010)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> I got to demo it at a Arborcoat seminar a few months back. I only brushed out a few feet on some stock they had laying around, but it seemed to handle just like oil base satin impervo. It has all the advantages and disadvantages of traditional oils, great looking finish, yellows with time but soap and water clean up.



Smell?


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

TheRogueBristle said:


> Smell?


I didn't notice. But then again, my sence of smell for paint is a little dead now..........


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I hate the oil fortified exterior stuff in dark colors. Absolutely hate the clean up hassles with deep accent colors. I want water reduced products to clean up completely with water ONLY. The clean up with solvent is the biggest reason I do not use oil, so do not give me a latex product that needs a solvent rinse.


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## 4ThGeneration (Apr 17, 2007)

Only problem with exterior oil based is that it attracts mold more than the latex, but as most spray monkeys apply paints cutting 1 gallon of water to a 5 of paint it will also have mold problems and peeling problems and touch up problems..ect ect


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

straight_lines said:


> Anyone use it yet? What are your opinions? Just noticed it on the site, haven't seen it in my local store, but it uses genex tint. Its alkyd waterborne so it should be tough as nails and have the benefits of not being oil based.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Havent brought it in yet. Probably will in the next week or so. Im not a huge fan of the Latex Impervo, but some guys like it. Im thinking the Advance will kill off the Latex Impervo. I havent had a place to use Advance yet, it always worries me bringing in a new product that I havent spread a little. I'll be watching this thread to see what the reviews are :thumbsup:


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

DeanV said:


> I hate the oil fortified exterior stuff in dark colors. Absolutely hate the clean up hassles with deep accent colors. I want water reduced products to clean up completely with water ONLY. The clean up with solvent is the biggest reason I do not use oil, so do not give me a latex product that needs a solvent rinse.


 I don't have any of those problems with soft gloss, it can drag when its hot but with a little extender it flows great again.

Clean up isn't that big of a deal, and I will throw a brush or nap in a bucket of water and throw them away after the job and not cry about it. Its only $15 a piece jeez..


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## TheRogueBristle (Mar 19, 2010)

DeanV said:


> I hate the oil fortified exterior stuff in dark colors. Absolutely hate the clean up hassles with deep accent colors. I want water reduced products to clean up completely with water ONLY. The clean up with solvent is the biggest reason I do not use oil, so do not give me a latex product that needs a solvent rinse.



I have lost a couple of brushes to this, not having thinner on hand to rinse them out. Especially in the darker colors.


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## jm1841 (Apr 7, 2009)

SW's Proclassic waterborne alkyds and ProMar 200 waterborne alkyds just came out this year, too. I noticed they flow just like oils but dry a little faster. Don't know about hardness though, I never checked the trim after it cured.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

With all the guys here that claim there brushes last them for years, they must not be using the oil-fortified BM softgloss for front doors or shutter colors. If I want a throw away brush, it is not going to be a $15 Corona Vegas or whatever. Especially when it might be used for one front door.


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## Ranger72 (Jul 3, 2010)

My brushes last a very long time, years for that matter. Of course I have a lot to choose from, but still the soft gloss doesn't seem to kill the brushes for me. I use a good amount of it, but as of lately have used more Aura on front doors/ shutters etc.


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

DeanV said:


> The clean up with solvent is the biggest reason I do not use oil, so do not give me a latex product that needs a solvent rinse.


Not to mention that it takes forever to dry.


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> I don't have any of those problems with soft gloss, it can drag when its hot but with a little extender it flows great again.
> 
> Clean up isn't that big of a deal, and I will throw a brush or nap in a bucket of water and throw them away after the job and not cry about it. Its only $15 a piece jeez..


Finanically it makes sense.

But I can leave a brush wrapped in acrylic for an entire job, then clean it out once. Takes about 6 minutes per brush if they are really hammered.

I throw roller naps away, but I just can't bring myself to throw a brush away.

If I break even on time/money by cleaning it, then I feel like I am treating the earth right.


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## 4ThGeneration (Apr 17, 2007)

straight_lines said:


> I don't have any of those problems with soft gloss, it can drag when its hot but with a little extender it flows great again.
> 
> Clean up isn't that big of a deal, and I will throw a brush or nap in a bucket of water and throw them away after the job and not cry about it. Its only $15 a piece jeez..


 
Sometimes cheaper than paying someone to clean them for sure... also I always run a bit of spirits after a paint with that much acrylic in it such as moorguard... We used to put on a ton of platinum gray and the brushes needed the extra step after a good washing.


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## One Coat Coverage (Oct 4, 2009)

I've had a gallon of the Pro Classic oil/latex paint sitting around since spring. Sw demoed it to me, and I really have no interest in trying it. They told me that you still will need thinner to clean up, and some of the other painters that tried it are not sold on it. I'll probably never use it.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

*waterbased alkyd... my impressions...*

I have been using a lot of SW Promar 200 and ProClassic waterbased alkyds lately. I love it. You get the hardness of oil with the drytime of latex. I prefer the 200 to the Proclassic though. Strange that the cheaper product works better than the top end, but the ProClassic is heavier bodied and more prone to sags. Advatages: you can come back and sand any flaws the same day (like you would be able to do with oil days later), heck you can take a blade and cut any spits clean off an hour later with no peeling. Smells are stronger than latex, less than oil. Disadvantages: Clean rig with water but you still need mineral spirits to get it completely clean. Not necessarily a problem cause I leave my rigs filled with thinner between jobs anyways. Oh, sheen is a hair bit brighter than latex.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I am pretty sure that the next high end interior I get this will be going in it. Many people don't like the waterborne satin impervo, but I use a good bit of it.

Hopefully this will be the best of both worlds.


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## 4ThGeneration (Apr 17, 2007)

One Coat Coverage said:


> I've had a gallon of the Pro Classic oil/latex paint sitting around since spring. Sw demoed it to me, and I really have no interest in trying it. They told me that you still will need thinner to clean up, and some of the other painters that tried it are not sold on it. I'll probably never use it.


If you have the free gallon the least you can do is try it on some scrap wood or something. Just do not take other contractors words for it because everyone has different skills. I do like the murallo better than the Proclassic, but it must have its place cause why would they make it if no one bought it? I know tons of contractors who used to buy it by the pallet.

Also, if you ever use the 100%acrylic paints for exterior and never used spirits to rinse through it then your brush could be classified as a 5 in 1 lol. I would wash the brush to get the paint out. Rinse spirits through the brush a couple times and then re rinse the brush.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

4ThGeneration said:


> Also, if you ever use the 100%acrylic paints for exterior and never used spirits to rinse through it then your brush could be classified as a 5 in 1 lol. I would wash the brush to get the paint out. Rinse spirits through the brush a couple times and then re rinse the brush.


Skip the thinner rinse and use hot water with a drop of dish soap. That usually works pretty well, unless you have an unusually crusty brush.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Only time I use thinner is to get deep base colorant out. With white NC is right, a hot water and soap rinse is usually enough.


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## swbaker1 (Aug 7, 2010)

*Oil modified*

I have used the Sherwin Williams oil modified and the stuff is outstanding with a much better smell it brushes and sprays very well. I add just a bit of water to the brusable stuff. Just my preference. It is super easy to work with and cleans up easy.:thumbup:


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## 4ThGeneration (Apr 17, 2007)

straight_lines said:


> Only time I use thinner is to get deep base colorant out. With white NC is right, a hot water and soap rinse is usually enough.


 
If you are on new construction where is the hot water coming from and the soap? Before the home owners move in when is usually when hot water is available?


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

4ThGeneration said:


> If you are on new construction where is the hot water coming from and the soap? Before the home owners move in when is usually when hot water is available?




Buzzkill.... the neighbors house of course. :whistling2:


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

4ThGeneration said:


> If you are on new construction where is the hot water coming from and the soap? Before the home owners move in when is usually when hot water is available?


First off....what new construction? There hasn't been a basement dug in my neck of the woods for ages. Second..why are you brushing trim on a NC job?


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

4ThGeneration said:


> If you are on new construction where is the hot water coming from and the soap? Before the home owners move in when is usually when hot water is available?


You can take them home or back to the shop.


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## Formulator (May 28, 2008)

plainpainter said:


> Isn't it interesting how all these paint manufacturers/companies were touting the quality of their new waterborne/100% Acrylics as great replacements for the oil paints of yesteryear. And as soon as they figure out how to suspend an oil molecule in water - it's right back to 'oil' based paints again. They'll probably eventually figure out how to get them to maintain 'stretch' as well. Ten years from now, all paints, interior and exterior will be oil/alkyd based - and we'll all look back at those 'latex' years with fond memories.


I hope so, considering that the WB alkyds are my area of expertise. Just remember that each type of paint you use does have its own benefits and drawbacks. Acrylics won't be going anywhere.


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## Formulator (May 28, 2008)

For you brush cleaners, we make a nice product called "Pure Strength". You can get it, dilute it in a cup or can with some water and let it work on the "tough spots" on your brushes. I use it at home and I think it works great.


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## DanPaint (Oct 16, 2010)

*Advance Paint*



straight_lines said:


> Anyone use it yet? What are your opinions? Just noticed it on the site, haven't seen it in my local store, but it uses genex tint. Its alkyd waterborne so it should be tough as nails and have the benefits of not being oil based.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Tried it yesterday. Works pretty good. Flows well, maintains a wet edge, unlike Aqauaglo, Latex Satin Impervo. No smell. The sheen is shinier than Oil Satin Impervo but may tone down as it cures. Easy to work with. Called a couple of reliable Benjamin Moore sources to ask some technical questions about the product. One told me that a good contractor he knows used it over Oil Base Satin Impervo without priming. The job was done on 133 doors. The contractor sanded the doors prior to application but all the doors peeled within 1 week. Yikes! I wasn't there so I cannot verify with my own eyes but I would certainly investigate proper procedure in relation to what the existing surface is . I used it over Zinsser Smart Prime Primer and had a great result, no peeling, nice leveling, etc. It looks pretty good to me.


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

swbaker1 said:


> I have used the Sherwin Williams oil modified and the stuff is outstanding with a much better smell it brushes and sprays very well. I add just a bit of water to the brusable stuff. Just my preference. It is super easy to work with and cleans up easy.:thumbup:





no.

and

no.


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## DanPaint (Oct 16, 2010)

*Advance Waterborne Satin*

Used it the other day. Works very good. Very little smell. Finish dries shinier than oil satin impervo but may tone down after it cures completely. Total cure is 72hrs. Easier to use than Aquaglo, Latex satin impervo as keeping a wet edge is possible. Levels well. I was impressed with it and will probably use as substitute for oil satin impervo. It claims minimal yellowing which is the major downside to satin impervo and common complaint of customers. Looks like they are on the right track. I like it. I called some trusted Ben Moore ditributors who are knowlegeable with the products and asked them some technical questions about it. Too new for track record but one of them told me about a contractor who used it on a job that had 133 doors. The doors were previously finished with oil satin impervo. He was advised from some other distrubutor to lightly sand, clean and paint with Advance with no priming. All the doors peeled in less than 1 week. Yikes. I wasn't there so I won't speculate but I would follow specs. I used it over Zinsser Smart Prime Primer and had a good result.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

we just started a whole house repaint while the client moves in (ugh) All the trim in the house was sprayed 5 years ago when built with Satin Impervo Linen white and has yellowed quite a bit. We are brushing Advance on trim and mo-hairing Advance on the doors. 4k sq ft home with big trims and doors they look great with Advance mixed in White dove cover the yellowed Linen white in one coat, No smell, dry to touch in about 2 hours so if there's the occasional drip, run etc you can usually catch it prior to it drying.

If they made this in eggshell i think I would use it on big foyer walls to level out and look great! This is my trim paint from hear on out.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

MAK-Deco said:


> we just started a whole house repaint while the client moves in (ugh) All the trim in the house was sprayed 5 years ago when built with Satin Impervo Linen white and has yellowed quite a bit. We are brushing Advance on trim and mo-hairing Advance on the doors. 4k sq ft home with big trims and doors they look great with Advance mixed in White dove cover the yellowed Linen white in one coat, No smell, dry to touch in about 2 hours so if there's the occasional drip, run etc you can usually catch it prior to it drying.
> 
> If they made this in eggshell i think I would use it on big foyer walls to level out and look great! This is my trim paint from hear on out.


Nice. White Dove is not exactly one of the best covering colors. Did you just sand the old oil for prep?


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## daren (Jul 5, 2008)

Just used PPG's speed hide wb semigloss. Strong smell but dissipates by the second day. Brushes very well. Lays down nice and smooth. I'm happy with it.


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

MAK-Deco said:


> dry to touch in about 2 hours so if there's the occasional drip, run etc you can usually catch it prior to it drying.


That's good to know. I asked about this stuff when I was at the benny moore store earlier and they told me it had a 16 hour dry time - which kinda put me off of it. Good to know it actually does dry faster than that.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

16 hrs is the recommended time to sand and recoat. Dry to touch is something like 4 hours.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

DeanV said:


> Nice. White Dove is not exactly one of the best covering colors. Did you just sand the old oil for prep?


yes scuff and wiped with microfiber cloth


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

DeanV said:


> 16 hrs is the recommended time to sand and recoat. Dry to touch is something like 4 hours.


On the sealed oil trim we are re coating its drying quicker then expected but on stuff I have primed first in the past it did take longer to dry.


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## Bighead (Nov 28, 2008)

Used it over oil yesterday. No smell, dried in under two hours. I was most impressed with the way it came off the brush and did not splatter (unlike impervo). Letting it dry over the weekend then will do a tape test in some spots.


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## Masterpainter (Aug 14, 2010)

Used it for the first time today. I usually have used Regal semi-gloss for trim. Wanted to try something different for trim, something that would maintain a wet edge a little bit longer. Thought I would try this stuff. I liked it. It brushed out beautifully, easy to work with. The only thing is I don't think the coverage is quite as good as the regal, however it is going on a little bit thinner than the regal, hence the workability and ease to apply. It seemed to dry down very nicely. The only thing I was wondering from some of you fellas that have used it more than I have is the concern over the 16 hour dry time. I realize that it is a 4 hour to the touch, however do you have to wait the 16 hours before recoating? And does it require a light sand before the second coat? Or if I suffered a little streaking can I basically go through and do a light second pass over to fill in my streaks after the 4 hour dry to touch time, kinda like a 1 1/2 coat?


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Masterpainter said:


> Used it for the first time today. I usually have used Regal semi-gloss for trim. Wanted to try something different for trim, something that would maintain a wet edge a little bit longer. Thought I would try this stuff. I liked it. It brushed out beautifully, easy to work with. The only thing is I don't think the coverage is quite as good as the regal, however it is going on a little bit thinner than the regal, hence the workability and ease to apply. It seemed to dry down very nicely. The only thing I was wondering from some of you fellas that have used it more than I have is the concern over the 16 hour dry time. I realize that it is a 4 hour to the touch, however do you have to wait the 16 hours before recoating? And does it require a light sand before the second coat? Or if I suffered a little streaking can I basically go through and do a light second pass over to fill in my streaks after the 4 hour dry to touch time, kinda like a 1 1/2 coat?


Play with it a bit, thats all I can tell you. Most of the dry times on the cans are just generalized. They can be faster or slower, depending on conditions. The only thing that would concern me, they said 16 hr dry time. Might be good much faster, but they say that long for a reason. My guess....they dont want you re-coating it too quickly and having "solvent trap" issues. If you havent experienced it before, its not something that you want to. Basically, the paint looks and feels dry after the first coat, but its not. Solvent is still leaching out of the film. When you apply the second coat, the solvent from the first coat gets trapped under the second coat causing the second coat to stay sticky or wet....for what seems like...forever.

I guess what im saying is...if it says 16hrs, it may be fine in 10-12 hrs...but you still shouldnt re-coat the same day. I bet they put 16hrs to cover their butt. You may be fine re-coating much sooner than that 99% of the time, but the one time you arent, their covered because they put it on the can to wait 16hrs :thumbsup:


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

Bighead said:


> Used it over oil yesterday. No smell, dried in under two hours. I was most impressed with the way it came off the brush and did not splatter (unlike impervo). Letting it dry over the weekend then will do a tape test in some spots.


I love the product but it does seem to take a little longer then you would think to harden up and adhere properly. I would be interested in your tape test and see what happens.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Tried it for the first time yesterday and today. So far I love the stuff! I'm painting some kitchen cabinets with the satin, and I think it looks great. 

Put on the first coat yesterday, _light _sand today and put on the 2nd. I will say though, it dose seem like its going to take a number of days to cure though......


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Nothing like holding up a job intentionally. Dry times like that would never work with me. Watching paint dry is a real issue with my systems right now using fast or quick dry everything. No joke. Watching paint dry is a real problem.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Tried it for the first time yesterday and today. So far I love the stuff! I'm painting some kitchen cabinets with the satin, and I think it looks great.
> 
> Put on the first coat yesterday, _light _sand today and put on the 2nd. I will say though, it dose seem like its going to take a number of days to cure though......


 Well that would really make sense and its something we deal with anyways with acrylics. They usually take two weeks to get hard. I still haven't bought any so I am not first hand on it. 

What application did you use on the cabinets?




jack pauhl said:


> Nothing like holding up a job intentionally. Dry times like that would never work with me. Watching paint dry is a real issue with my systems right now using fast or quick dry everything. No joke. Watching paint dry is a real problem.


 I thought you liked paint with lots of workability?


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> What application did you use on the cabinets?


Its a small kitchen, so I'm using a mini roller and laying them out. Will try spray appilcation on the next one. They are oak cabinet fronts that were stained & poly. Put one coat of Kover Stain on them and two of the Advance. I'm using this job as a test for how it brushes.........


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

In hindsight, this would have been an ideal situation for a Pro Shot as I had all the doors off. 

If I'm not painting the insides, and I'm brushing, my procedure is as follows.....

Pull all doors.
Paint outside of the boxes.
Paint the _hinge _side of the doors.
Re-hang the doors.
Paint the remaining portion of the doors while they are up. I can paint both sides at the same time this way.


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

jack pauhl said:


> Nothing like holding up a job intentionally. Dry times like that would never work with me. Watching paint dry is a real issue with my systems right now using fast or quick dry everything. No joke. Watching paint dry is a real problem.


 Agreed, but sometimes you can have the best of both worlds. Use the Advance only for the top coat which gives you the look and the lay-off time your are looking or should I say "longing" for. I've been doing that even with the "real" alkyds now for quite a while with great results and NEVER a problem. I'll take a new wood door and prime with a quick dry primer-usually bin if I'm looking to sand it out really nice, then throw on quick coat of acrylic eggshell. By the time you do a few more you can coat them with a Satin Impervo type product and they come out fine. Maybe not quite as good as years ago with multiple coats of oil sanded between coats, but a hell of a lot better than the next guys Aquaglo with the roller stipple finish! If the Advance could be used like that for new trim, we may have something. For me the drytime isn't really an issue. It has to stick and it can't turn yellow in 6 months. We are trying to get away from sanding previously painted stuff for the obvious reason. If the Advance will bond well,it will be a big plus.


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## Masterpainter (Aug 14, 2010)

jack pauhl said:


> Nothing like holding up a job intentionally. Dry times like that would never work with me. Watching paint dry is a real issue with my systems right now using fast or quick dry everything. No joke. Watching paint dry is a real problem.


What's your favorite trim paint? When you are brushing, not spraying. My purpose for trying the advance was to try something that would brush out nice. I have previously used the regal semi


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

The verdict is in:
We like the product.

It takes long to dry?
Of course, it's an oil.
It is runny? 
Of course, it levels good it's an oil.
If you think it as what it is, it is a graet product.

Not a review but we did the following:

http://www.ecopainting.ca/blog/?p=123

Also used it for spraying kitchen cabinets

They dried hard, look amazing


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## DHlll (Dec 22, 2010)

*Advance*

I have tried the advance semi on a recent job. i had the ben moore rep come out and have me field test it. He knows i have been using impervo(oil) for the past 10 years and wanted to see if i like this product. Cant say my analysis is thorough because all the trim i brushed was a product called ultralight. Which is a lightweight version of mdo. It brushed out great, but i brushed it heavy as i do with oil and had some runs down the grove of the backband. It stayed open very long. I cleaned out the grove and wipe away the run on the floor. When i came back the next day i still had a little puddle. But my layoff was almost as good as oil. Very very shiney. I would only use this on crown molding only for the fact that i can do crown and ceiling in the same day. I give my first rating with it a B. I llike the idea of water clean up though. Dont be fooled though the rep said its 70% oil.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> Nothing like holding up a job intentionally. Dry times like that would never work with me. Watching paint dry is a real issue with my systems right now using fast or quick dry everything. No joke. Watching paint dry is a real problem.


I was thinking the same exact thing the other day, with the advent of all these latex trim products replacing all the oils, most painters found themselves complaining about how latex didn't look as nice. But in reality the quick dry nature of these newer generation products has forced us painters to pick up our speed, increase production. You don't have a choice anymore and brush a door real slow and meticulous, the stuff will dry on and screw up the job. Now we're forced to lay it on at the correct thickness, and then leave it alone and move on. And now what we have are some trim enamels out there every bit as nice looking as the oils of the past.

I agree with Jack, in this economy, these oil products make utterly no sense whatsoever. There was a reason why the old timers painted trim last, it's due to the long drying nature of oil coatings.


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## Bighead (Nov 28, 2008)

DHlll said:


> I have tried the advance semi on a recent job. i had the ben moore rep come out and have me field test it. He knows i have been using impervo(oil) for the past 10 years and wanted to see if i like this product. Cant say my analysis is thorough because all the trim i brushed was a product called ultralight. Which is a lightweight version of mdo. It brushed out great, but i brushed it heavy as i do with oil and had some runs down the grove of the backband. It stayed open very long. I cleaned out the grove and wipe away the run on the floor. When i came back the next day i still had a little puddle. But my layoff was almost as good as oil. Very very shiney. I would only use this on crown molding only for the fact that i can do crown and ceiling in the same day. I give my first rating with it a B. I llike the idea of water clean up though. Dont be fooled though the rep said its 70% oil.


I'm confused, our results were that it was very very dull:001_unsure::001_unsure:. We only applied one coat, could that be the difference? 

Applied tape after a weekend dry time and it de-laminated in only a few spots.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Big...there's a satin AND a gloss finish.


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## Masterpainter (Aug 14, 2010)

Just finished a second coat, very shiny. Mine was just a little streaky after the first coat. Very full and good coverage after second coat. Second coat tacked quicker than first.


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

Masterpainter said:


> Just finished a second coat, very shiny. Mine was just a little streaky after the first coat. Very full and good coverage after second coat. Second coat tacked quicker than first.


 Are you using the satin or the high gloss ?


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

As with all oils, it takes 30 days to reach its true sheen. I used the satin Advance, and would compare it to the sheen of Aquaglow.


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> As with all oils, it takes 30 days to reach its true sheen. I used the satin Advance, and would compare it to the sheen of Aquaglow.


 That sounds nice. When it tones down it should be similar to the satin impervo level or maybe just a little more shine, which in most cases should be fine. It should end up with a little more shine than a traditional satin and a little less than we are used to with a semi-gloss-maybe the best of both worlds. 2 coats over the kover stain should make a beautiful job. I am interested how it sticks over previously painted alkyd,latex and arcylic trim & woodwork. Maybe a little liquid de-glosser and 1 coat over similar color that brushes out nice ?-that would be a nice find. I'm gonna look to find the right project to try it on. We have got to get away from scuff sanding with the new lead regulations. It's senseless to create a project where the lead regulations must be implemented when it isn't absolutely necessary. Thanks for the feedback!


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## Masterpainter (Aug 14, 2010)

CliffK said:


> Are you using the satin or the high gloss ?


Satin, I guess I shouldn't have said very shiny, just a good shine, not dull. Like the others have said, similar to aquaglo


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

Masterpainter said:


> Satin, I guess I shouldn't have said very shiny, just a good shine, not dull. Like the others have said, similar to aquaglo


 That's OK. Like Schmidt said, it should tone down over the next couple weeks like alkyds always will.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> Nothing like holding up a job intentionally. Dry times like that would never work with me. Watching paint dry is a real issue with my systems right now using fast or quick dry everything. No joke. Watching paint dry is a real problem.


If its one coat oil over oil its not holding up anything for me, maybe you need to look at a product for the application... Not everything you don't use jack sucks... 

Sometimes you need to get over yourself.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> As with all oils, it takes 30 days to reach its true sheen. I used the satin Advance, and would compare it to the sheen of Aquaglow.


I agree the satin was very shiny when I first starting using it but now that I have seen it after time it looks no different then impervo...


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## kingsebi (Jan 27, 2009)

*Not So Hot*

First I would like to say, I love Ben Moore's products. Haven't ever really had any problems with them. But I did try the Advance. It paints like oil. Cleans up like latex. You do have to use an all paints brush, not a latex. It will ruin it. Really have to clean it good.

The paint however, I didn't like. It sags and runs ALOT. You have to go back over your work constantly. Far worse than oil. Finished product looked good though. I say, if you want to try it ask for a free gallon. They will give you one. But the Impervo oil is better, IMO. Hope this helps.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

kingsebi said:


> First I would like to say, I love Ben Moore's products. Haven't ever really had any problems with them. But I did try the Advance. It paints like oil. Cleans up like latex. You do have to use an all paints brush, not a latex. It will ruin it. Really have to clean it good.
> 
> The paint however, I didn't like. It sags and runs ALOT. You have to go back over your work constantly. Far worse than oil. Finished product looked good though. I say, if you want to try it ask for a free gallon. They will give you one. But the Impervo oil is better, IMO. Hope this helps.


Thats really the only complaint that ive heard. There is a bit of a learning curve, just like most products have ( which is why guys have their favorites I guess, they know all the tricks :thumbup: ) It does hide well, even though you apply a thinner coat. I wouldnt cast off the waterborne alkyds as "never use again", sooner or later thats probably all that will be available from most manufacturers.


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

NC are you saying that it will replace the all waterbornes? I don't think so-


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

kingsebi said:


> First I would like to say, I love Ben Moore's products. Haven't ever really had any problems with them. But I did try the Advance. It paints like oil. Cleans up like latex. You do have to use an all paints brush, not a latex. It will ruin it. Really have to clean it good.
> 
> The paint however, I didn't like. It sags and runs ALOT. You have to go back over your work constantly. Far worse than oil. Finished product looked good though. I say, if you want to try it ask for a free gallon. They will give you one. But the Impervo oil is better, IMO. Hope this helps.



I feel most people try to apply it like an oil and put it on heavy so it lays off. I have learned that a thin coat will run and sag less. We use 6 gallons of white dove over very yellow linen white on the last job we used it on and it cover in one nice thin coat.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

BrushJockey said:


> NC are you saying that it will replace the all waterbornes? I don't think so-


If it came in eggshell I would use it on walls!


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

BrushJockey said:


> NC are you saying that it will replace the all waterbornes? I don't think so-


No, but most likely the full alkyds.


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## Masterpainter (Aug 14, 2010)

I found that after a while as it loads up in your brush and is open in your trim bucket for a while it applies a little better then when you are first getting it in your brush after just opening up a new can.


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