# New business looking for estimate software recommendations



## Knooksnkrannies (Feb 9, 2012)

Hey guys. I'm not a newbie painter, but I have just started my own painting services company. I'm looking to see what some of you guys might recommend as far as a professional looking estimate form. Wether it be just a simple form or a more detailed and easy to use computer software program. I've seen a few out there , but have not purchased or made anything as of yet. Some seem a bit confusing as there seem to be forms for everything. I want to use something easy to use for me, easy for the client to understand at the same time look professional. Any suggestions???


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## Alltimate Painting (Mar 2, 2012)

I use quickbooks for estimating. When customer accepts you just automatically create an invoice for billing. You have the ability to format your proposal to show or not show certain details and include a sales pitch. Only draw back is I don't know how well it would work with multiple sales people. I'd be curious to find out what others use when having multiple sales people. It'd be nice to be able to streamline all the information into quickbooks or some accounting software without re-entering customer details.


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## Knooksnkrannies (Feb 9, 2012)

I bet it is great software. I've never used quickbooks. I know I should and will do some research to see if it's easy to use. Looks expensive though. Are there specific programs I could buy to save on cost and not get a bunch of programs I don't need and won't use??Is that all you guys got for me? Really. Am I on my own on this one. Or is it quickbooks for me??
Anything else??


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## matt19422 (Oct 2, 2009)

Steveqpp said:


> msg deleted by moderator


Not sure I like the whole cloud base idea, With privacy issues, data mining, solar storms, ect..

Does the service offer a full download?


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I would try the free trial if you are interested. I edited our his post since it was against PaintTalk's rules for advertising.


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## HJ61 (Nov 14, 2011)

I've been using one called Freshbooks. It's an online service. However, as I'm nod incorporating I will have to move to a new package that will satisfy the requirements for my accountant. It is a free trial if you are interested.


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## Timsthomas (Jun 13, 2012)

I need a est software for res please help me


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## ROOMINADAY (Mar 20, 2009)

PM Pats Painting. He has something you may be interested in.


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## Steveqpp (Apr 25, 2012)

There is a few estimating programs out there. All will need you to fill out information or forms because every company has different costs. Most will have you fill out pages of "historic" costs. That might be hard if you are just starting out in business. The other thing to look at is what else it can do, like work orders and job costing.

Whatever you find, the most important thing is to keep using it all the time so you can compare apples to apples. That way you KNOW how much money you make and where.

Good luck

Steve


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

For those just starting out, Pat's program would be a great place to start. I wish he had this program back when I started my company. It would have made life easier.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

Thanks Dean and ROOMINADAY 



Steveqpp said:


> Whatever you find, the most important thing is to keep using it all the time so you can compare apples to apples. That way you KNOW how much money you make and where.
> 
> Good luck
> 
> Steve


That pretty much goes for all types of software of this nature. Not much value on day one, It's after awhile where you gather data where the value starts to sink in. The more data the better decisions you can make.

Pat


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

DeanV said:


> For those just starting out, Pat's program would be a great place to start. I wish he had this program back when I started my company. It would have made life easier.


his program doesn't factor in the tax on the estimate which is a deal breaker for me.otherwise I like it.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

Xmark said:


> his program doesn't factor in the tax on the estimate which is a deal breaker for me.otherwise I like it.



I have recently thought about that as I know a few states do this. Not sure about how Canada does this either. I don't know really how this works - is it tax on just actual labor? or the whole job amount? I don't think it would be that hard for me to add this as an option for those who need it. I just need to know how it works. Here in California there is no such thing.

Pat


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

PatsPainting said:


> I have recently thought about that as I know a few states do this. Not sure about how Canada does this either. I don't know really how this works - is it tax on just actual labor? or the whole job amount? I don't think it would be that hard for me to add this as an option for those who need it. I just need to know how it works. Here in California there is no such thing.
> 
> Pat


It's 5% goods and services tax in canada on every job.it's a tax on everything included.just add 5% to your estimate.quickbooks online has the tax thing but your overall program blows theirs away for painters.i know they have a ton of features that i don't use.I like the fact that I can turn an estimate into an invoice in seconds and email it to my customer.you have ms word and qbo doesn't!


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

Ok, Sounds easy I think. So if your final price is let's say $2000.00 this includes everything. You would then add the 5% which would add $100. So now its $2100.00. Over this weekend I will give this a shot and see how it comes out. I just need to figure where to add this option and stuff.

Really appreciate you helping me out on this.

Thanks 

Pat


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

PatsPainting said:


> Ok, Sounds easy I think. So if your final price is let's say $2000.00 this includes everything. You would then add the 5% which would add $100. So now its $2100.00. Over this weekend I will give this a shot and see how it comes out. I just need to figure where to add this option and stuff.
> 
> Really appreciate you helping me out on this.
> 
> ...


Just allow excel an option for a percentage on top of the final price.our tax has varied from 5% to 7%.in the states a sales tax is just a percentage too.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

Xmark said:


> Just allow excel an option for a percentage on top of the final price.our tax has varied from 5% to 7%.in the states a sales tax is just a percentage too.


Would you not want to include this on your proposal too? so the customer knows exactly what they are paying? Or is it just assumed they know they will have to pay this tax?

If this is all it is then it would be real easy to fix. 

Pat


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

PatsPainting said:


> Would you not want to include this on your proposal too? so the customer knows exactly what they are paying? Or is it just assumed they know they will have to pay this tax?
> 
> If this is all it is then it would be real easy to fix.
> 
> Pat


yes,i have it now on my estimates (proposals) and invoices.i'd give the contractor the option to include it on proposal forms & invoices.quickbooks gives you this option.some guys might exclude the tax as a gimmick to close a deal.


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## Steveqpp (Apr 25, 2012)

Pat,
Sales tax is different in every state. In Minnesota materials and paint is taxed. Painting labor is not but cleaning labor is. The rate is different in different counties and we have 87 counties (I think).
Just something more to think about. 

Does Canada have a Value added tax also?

Good luck
Steve


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

Steveqpp said:


> Pat,
> Sales tax is different in every state. In Minnesota materials and paint is taxed. Painting labor is not but cleaning labor is. The rate is different in different counties and we have 87 counties (I think).
> Just something more to think about.
> 
> ...


Wow - When you say materials and paint is taxed? does that mean you charge the customer this tax or do you pay the tax when your purchase it? 

When you pressure wash somebody's house is this taxed as cleaning but when your start the actual prep work/painting this is not taxed?

That can be pretty confusing. 

Thanks for the info

Pat


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## Steveqpp (Apr 25, 2012)

If you buy the paint and apply it as a part of the job you pay tax on it when you buy it. If you buy it and mark it up or resell to the customer you should have a tax number, charge the customer the tax on the marked up price and send that to the state. 

In the power washing if you call it paint prep it is not taxed. With a fire job the cleaning of the walls and ceilings are a taxable item.

Then to really mess things up, the State also has a "user tax" witch is sales tax on stuff you buy on the internet but did not pay sales tax on. I was audit for this once.

Every state has it's own rules.

Hope this helps

Steve


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## lildave (Jul 11, 2010)

*13% tax in Ontario*

In Ontario Canada, the tax is - 13% Goods and Services tax. Pretty much 13% on everything painting related to the job.

Pat, I'd love to check out your software.
lidave


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

lildave said:


> In Ontario Canada, the tax is - 13% Goods and Services tax. Pretty much 13% on everything painting related to the job.
> 
> Pat, I'd love to check out your software.
> lidave


Wow - big difference between 13% and Xmarks 5%. I would have thought all of Canada is the same.

Working on this right now for the program and few other things like adding your logos and chit.

Here is what the tax deal will look like. Just simply set up once and on the proposal/Invoice page there will be checkbox to either include this or not.

Pat


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## Steveqpp (Apr 25, 2012)

Here is some more tax info for Canada 
*2012 Sales Tax Rates in Canadian Provinces and Territories*

The following table shows the* general rates *of provincial sales taxes or HST for most purchases, and provides links to the provincial (or federal) web sites regarding provincial retail sales taxes.
​​*Prov/
Terr**2012 Rate**Provincial Web Sites*​*GST/HST**PST*BC12% HSTn/a*(3)*BC Consumer Taxes
TaxTips.ca PST in BC and BC HST
BC Harmonized Sales TaxAB5% GSTn/aSK5% GST5%Saskatchewan Provincial Sales TaxMB5% GST7%Manitoba Retail Sales TaxON13% HSTn/a*(4)*Ontario Retail Sales Tax
TaxTips.ca Ontario HST
Ontario What is the HST?QC5% GST9.5%*(1)*Québec QST and GST - for businesses
Québec QST and GST - for individualsNL13% HST*(5)*n/aNS15% HSTn/aNB13% HSTn/aPE5% GST10%*(2)*Prince Edward Island Revenue TaxNT5% GSTn/aNU5% GSTn/aYT5% GSTn/a*(1)* The sales tax is applied to the total of the selling price plus the GST. The 9.5% QST rate is effective January 1, 2012. Effective January 1, 2013, the QST rate will be 9.975%, but will no longer be charged on GST. This results in no change to the total tax.
*(2)* The sales tax in PE is applied to the total of the selling price plus the GST.
The PE 2012 Budget proposes removing the provincial sales tax and implementing HST, with a rate of 14%, effective April 1, 2013.
*(3)* BC still has some sales taxes, such as the tax on designated property (vehicles, boats and aircraft). See the link above to BC Consumer Taxes for more information. The HST in BC was overturned by a referendum, so BC will return to a PST plus GST system April 1, 2013.
*(4)* Ontario still has retail sales tax on insurance and on private sales of used motor vehicles. See the link to Ontario Retail Sales Tax for more information.
*(5)* NS 2012 Budget announced that their HST rate will be reduced to 14% on January 1, 2014 and 13% on January 1, 2015.
Businesses which sell taxable goods and/or services in each province are required to register as a vendor to collect the provincial retail sales tax where applicable.

Revised: June 01, 2012

Hope this helps

Steve


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