# Festool rocked in our first interior repaint



## WarlinePainting (May 22, 2011)

This year we invested in Festool sanders and a dust extractor. And we put it through the gears on this big repaint job. 

I can safely say our entire company has drank the koolaid. We are buying our second extractor this week. They will have paid for themselves within the month.

http://www.warlinepainting.ca/snapblog/readblog.asp?blogid=1649


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

How are these expensive festool dust extractors any different than using a vacuum attachment on a hand sander?


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## WarlinePainting (May 22, 2011)

99.7% dust free. You could eat lunch while dusting.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Filter is 997, but that does not mean it captures 99.7% of dust. We still need to vacuum trim after sanding with Festool stuff. It is a great system and I like the sanders and Vacs though. Also, Vacs need to be adjustable to work well with sanders, most shop Vacs are not adjustable.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

Dean, what about the way they compare to other sanders. Rob tried them at the booth in Vegas and commented that they seemed much more "ergonomically" comfortable than the ones he uses now.


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

WarlinePainting said:


> 99.7% dust free. You could eat lunch while dusting.


Yeah, I'm not knocking them, just trying to justify the price. I made a video of myself sanding the crap out of a drywall patch above my head using a el-cheapo Hyde hand sander attached to a shop vac over a dark brown table, and not a speck of duct hit that table. Again, I'm just trying to justify the cost of these things.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

ProWallGuy said:


> Yeah, I'm not knocking them, just trying to justify the price. I made a video of myself sanding the crap out of a drywall patch above my head using a el-cheapo Hyde hand sander attached to a shop vac over a dark brown table, and not a speck of duct hit that table. Again, I'm just trying to justify the cost of these things.


Have you read this?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

While the sanders and extractors individually are great tools, to me the benefit is having stuff that was designed to work together efficiently. 

For a tool company to have 14 options for sanders that can replace inferior power sanders and eliminate the majority of sanding that is done by hand is huge. I am not aware of another tool company that can offer that, which in itself makes it worth a look. 

Its not so much about this spec or that stat. Its what they can do collectively, over the course of time in all different types of situations. These tools may not be a good option for some people, but there are a bunch who are finding what Heidi and Warline are finding, which is generally a better experience for everyone involved in the dirty aspects of the project. 

Tim, in your case, if you don't do much sanding, buying an extractor as a stand alone tool may not be best for you. For people who sand alot, best possible extraction is critical.


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

DeanV said:


> Also, Vacs need to be adjustable to work well with sanders, most shop Vacs are not adjustable.


This is what I have found. The ability to adjust the suction to find that sweet spot where the sander just seems to glide is a significant upgrade. The tool is doing the work, not so much me. I am not saying Festool is the only option in dustless sanding, but it is the way we decided to go and are very satisfied with the results.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

WarlinePainting said:


> This year we invested in Festool sanders and a dust extractor. And we put it through the gears on this big repaint job.
> 
> I can safely say our entire company has drank the koolaid. We are buying our second extractor this week. They will have paid for themselves within the month.
> 
> http://www.warlinepainting.ca/snapblog/readblog.asp?blogid=1649


Nicely written article Heidi. :thumbsup:



ProWallGuy said:


> How are these expensive festool dust extractors any different than using a vacuum attachment on a hand sander?


Tim, there are cheaper ways to go but the experience is not the same. Most vacs unless you buy something similar do not have adjustments on the suction so something like the hyde is often getting pulled to hard and binding onto the surface you are working on. So the when you have one of Festool's extractors dialed in and the variable speed on the sander set right they work great together. 

If you are considering them once you get past the initial sticker shock and start using them the value can easily be seen and soon a task like sanding that is usually something I dread is now a much more pleasurable task. As Heidi mentioned in the article the wear on abrasives is minimal compared to other types of abrasives I have used, at least when using Granat. 

As far as your needs I can not say if they would be a good fit but if you think they may then take advantage of the 30 day return policy. If it turns out they are not a good fit return them. 



DeanV said:


> Filter is 997, but that does not mean it captures 99.7% of dust. We still need to vacuum trim after sanding with Festool stuff. It is a great system and I like the sanders and Vacs though. Also, Vacs need to be adjustable to work well with sanders, most shop Vacs are not adjustable.


This is true on some surfaces, a quick wipe down or vac is best as even though they are mostly dust free there is a slight residue of dust left on trim but nothing like what other sanders that do not use a vac leave behind. Also for drywall I am finding essentially next to no dust left on the wall and the same can be said when sanding off some others painters poor technique on previously painted walls. 

I have been sanding popcorn texture off ceilings on a couple jobs so far and when the sanding pad hits the texture it knocks some of the texture off the ceiling, I have experimented with tamping the sander to knock the initial nubs down but in all reality it seems quicker to just let them fall on the drops and clean up the small amount of falling material. I am also experimenting with giving the ceiling a prescrape but if the material will fall anyways what is the difference. 

The bottom line is the ceiling can have the texture removed with minimal mess and be repaired if it needs it, primed and painted much quicker without the mess associated with this type of job. Usually for me I would scrape a ceiling down and do the repairs and come back to it the next day but if it is not an entire house the whole ceiling can be completed in a day since I am not wetting it. I have been testing the ETS 125 and RTS 400 for these jobs and of course both these sanders work great for drywall as well. 

I would imagine the Planex will be my longer term goal over time for popcorn removal mainly to eliminate most of the ladder work and shave some time off the process but not at this stage. And this combination makes pretty short work of the task so far. 

I have video I need to edit of the process above.

WARNING: asbestos was banned from popcorn in 1978 but may have been used in residential up to 1985 to use the surplus stock. If the home falls in the area of those dates have the texture tested as asbestos is a dangerous material.



RCP said:


> Dean, what about the way they compare to other sanders. Rob tried them at the booth in Vegas and commented that they seemed much more "ergonomically" comfortable than the ones he uses now.


I find them to be comfortable sanders. The ETS 125 is lighter it weighs in at 2.4 I think. So for over head it is a good choice. My only gripe about the 125 is where the variable speed is control is at. I seem to move it accidentally with my thumb occasionally and not be aware of it until I have it back on the wall. This is something I am making a conscience effort to double check. On the bigger ETS sanders the variable control is in another location and wonder if that would eliminate my problem. Of course I could be the freak of the group as I have never read anybody else complain about this.


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## mpminter (Mar 21, 2011)

I'm really looking forward to trying the ETS 125 with Abranet as a way to sand off heavy brush/roller marks and drips from walls. I have heard Abranet is just about as good as it gets for latex wall paint! If that works out as well as I think it will I'll probably invest in an ETS 150 just to get the larger surface area.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

mpminter said:


> I'm really looking forward to trying the ETS 125 with Abranet as a way to sand off heavy brush/roller marks and drips from walls. I have heard Abranet is just about as good as it gets for latex wall paint! If that works out as well as I think it will I'll probably invest in an ETS 150 just to get the larger surface area.


Have never used the Abranet. I have used the Granat pretty much exclusively and it is some long lasting paper. If you are dead set on the Abranet get some Granat to do some comparative testing as the Granat is made for the Festool head pattern.


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## mpminter (Mar 21, 2011)

Workaholic said:


> Have never used the Abranet. I have used the Granat pretty much exclusively and it is some long lasting paper. If you are dead set on the Abranet get some Granat to do some comparative testing as the Granat is made for the Festool head pattern.


Good idea Sean, I'll definitely do that. Hole pattern shouldn't matter with abranet as it's a screen, not a paper. I don't know when I'll actually get around to doing some testing, but when I do I'll try to remember to take some pics and video.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

....


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## WarlinePainting (May 22, 2011)

Workaholic said:


> I would imagine the Planex will be my longer term goal over time for popcorn removal mainly to eliminate most of the ladder work and shave some time off the process but not at this stage. And this combination makes pretty short work of the task so far.


Seriously cool option. Never even crossed my mind that the Planex could be used for this.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

WarlinePainting said:


> Seriously cool option. Never even crossed my mind that the Planex could be used for this.


That would be interesting. I think I'd want some grit on it. The Planex we all ran in Vegas had 220 on it for the most part on mud and that was where it wanted to be. I still want to put one on a wood deck. :whistling2:


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

ProWallGuy said:


> Yeah, I'm not knocking them, just trying to justify the price. I made a video of myself sanding the crap out of a drywall patch above my head using a el-cheapo Hyde hand sander attached to a shop vac over a dark brown table, and not a speck of duct hit that table. Again, I'm just trying to justify the cost of these things.



I bought my Hyde system and dust deputy due to that vid and you....I've abandoned them.

Its not just the one purpose of sanding dustlessly.

- The extractors are quiet. After running a shop vac for hours your ears are ringing.
- no "puff" on start up and no big exhaust port to blow dust around.
- square, solid, design. I use mine as a 'holder of tools' all the time. 
- Its all the little details of design like auto start up, ease of changing bags, ease to carry (round, fat, shop vacs suck!) that make you realize....this is way better.
- variable suction and you realize that you can fine tune your sanding therefore a better job.


Another tool that I love just as much is the Syslite. I freakin' love that thing....oh he11 - lets go to topcoat for a pic.... http://topcoatreview.com/tag/festool-syslite/


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Paint and Hammer said:


> I bought my Hyde system and dust deputy due to that vid and you....I've abandoned them.


Paul, could you tell us a little more about your experience with the dust deputy? I have it on my Amazon wish list, and was thinking about finally getting it this summer for my extractor. I like the reviews, but value the opinion of someone I know more.


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Paul, could you tell us a little more about your experience with the dust deputy? I have it on my Amazon wish list, and was thinking about finally getting it this summer for my extractor. I like the reviews, but value the opinion of someone I know more.


To be clear I don't have the one that attaches to the CT. I bought just the cyclone and attached it to a pail. I was going to retrofit it to the shop vac or to a stationary garbage can. Used it a few times....then bought a Festool. Haven't used it since.

It will end up on a stationary drum in my shop.

The concept works great, I also would be interested in how it works attached to a CT.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Paint and Hammer said:


> To be clear I don't have the one that attaches to the CT. I bought just the cyclone and attached it to a pail. I was going to retrofit it to the shop vac or to a stationary garbage can. Used it a few times....then bought a Festool. Haven't used it since.
> 
> It will end up on a stationary drum in my shop.
> 
> The concept works great, I also would be interested in how it works attached to a CT.


Thanks Paul. The one I've been thinking about is the one that attaches to the top of my extractor. My thinking is to use it on those especially dusty jobs that would trash my expensive HEPA filters.


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Thanks Paul. The one I've been thinking about is the one that attaches to the top of my extractor. My thinking is to use it on those especially dusty jobs that would trash my expensive HEPA filters.



That's exactly that one I would be interesting in also for the same reason.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

WarlinePainting said:


> Seriously cool option. Never even crossed my mind that the Planex could be used for this.


I have thought about it a lot, plus the sanding of walls for this tool. I do some drywall finishing jobs throughout the year and see the Planex working in a few areas. I just want to make sure I have enough work for it, I would be bummed not to pull it out often if I owned it. 

The ETS 125 and the RTS 400 sander combination works well and is surprisingly quick for popcorn removal as it is but I think the bristles on the head of the Planex would stop some of the nubs from falling off that I am experiencing with the other sanders. Most of the popcorn I am asked to remove is unpainted so it comes off pretty easily. As mentioned I have pics and video of the process and need to edit it down. 


Do they have much popcorn in Vancouver? I would be interested in hearing your results when you guys get your hands on one if you get the chance to put it to it. 



Paint and Hammer said:


> Its not just the one purpose of sanding dustlessly.
> 
> - The extractors are quiet. After running a shop vac for hours your ears are ringing.
> - no "puff" on start up and no big exhaust port to blow dust around.
> ...


Yep to all of the above. 

mmm Syslite. You lucky dog.


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## WarlinePainting (May 22, 2011)

oh yes we have popcorn. Almost all new construction that isn't a custom build is done in textured ceilings. I am looking up at mine right now. Mind you it has gotten signficantly smoother over the last decade but I am dying to convince Warren to try that Planex on our own house as a test. The obvious problem is gawd only knows how bad the drywall is underneath. 

Hello skim coat.

But that would mean getting to use the planex again. Not all bad. 

Gonna need that waist belt with the handle attachment.


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## WarlinePainting (May 22, 2011)

vermontpainter said:


> While the sanders and extractors individually are great tools, to me the benefit is having stuff that was designed to work together efficiently.
> 
> For a tool company to have 14 options for sanders that can replace inferior power sanders and eliminate the majority of sanding that is done by hand is huge. I am not aware of another tool company that can offer that, which in itself makes it worth a look.
> 
> ...


This would be what Warren is finding most beneficial about the Festool system. It's the integration of all the equipment. Good options in tools that work well to solve all of the "dirty" jobs and make them easier, faster and better.

We need to now rework our systems to make sure we are maximizing the efficiency of our guys and our time because the Festool is shaving that much time off of prep. It's a great problem to have.

And this job was absolute proof of the benefits of a dust-free system. I couldn't get over the difference in clean-up. For an entire 3 level, 3,300 square foot house to be entirely painted (trim, doors, ceilings and walls) with that little dust in the end was huge. We quickly wiped trim down with a damp cloth after sanding but that was it. There was nothing.


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## shofestoolusa (Dec 1, 2011)

I've been following the thread and am available to answer any specific questions.

Here's a quote from an article entitled _10 Tips to Paint Like a Pro_ by Philip Hansell, a professional painter in Durham, NC (http://www.hansellpaint.com), in the current issue of Fine Homebuilding magazine that I thought was relevant to the conversation.

*Tip 5: The right tool makes all the difference*



> With the EPA’s new RRP rule for dealing with lead-based paint in effect, we had to rethink how to prepare surfaces that test positive for lead. When we were introduced to the Festool sander/vacuum combo by a local cabinet builder, I was really impressed, but I was hesitant to buy one because of the price. The tool works so effectively, though, that after we bit the bullet on the first one, we ordered two more soon after. Now we use all three every day on lead jobs. The vac’s EPA-approved HEPA filter captures 99.97% of particles down to 0.3 microns. We love that these vacuums protect our employees from lead exposure and reduce our cleanup time. In fact, we like them so much that we plan to buy six more this year.


http://www.finehomebuilding.com/how-to/articles/10-tips-to-paint-like-a-pro.aspx

I think more and more painters are beginning to realize the value in the unique competitive advantages offered by Festool. Skeptical? Take the challenge. Buy our tools, use the heck out of them for up to 30 days, if you don't like them just return them for a refund. No risk and you get to use the world's best power tools for a month.

Shane


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## IHATE_HOMEDEPOT (May 27, 2008)

So I purchased the Fein and hit a wall once I found out that the hose does not work with most sanders (had to cut the end off and reattach a different diameter fitting), wish I would have spent the dough and gotten the Festool also given the fact that the motor RPM's are adjustable which is way cool.

To the popcorn sander task -do you all use water. I used to be a drywall guy and when we had popcorn that went on to heavy or where the mixture was to watery and had issues I was the one who removed 'em. I would just drag a hose in the unit (new const.) and wet the whole ceiling and it would turn to cottage cheese and almost fall off. I know that it is a different animal if it has ever been sealed with oil primer/sealer. To me sanding this stuff is something I would not want to be any part of.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

IHATE_HOMEDEPOT said:


> To the popcorn sander task -do you all use water.


 In the past I always used water.


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## Msargent (Jan 16, 2009)

Mt only issue with festool is that when using a sander and vacume at the same time in most old houses be prepared to reset the breakers.


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## mpminter (Mar 21, 2011)

I use water out of a pump sprayer. Even if the popcorn has been painted I have found that if you scrape to knock the points off before you wet it down, the water is able to penetrate and it will still work, albeit more slowly.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Msargent said:


> Mt only issue with festool is that when using a sander and vacume at the same time in most old houses be prepared to reset the breakers.


I have not run into that so far. The vac has a plug outlet and when I turn the sander on it turns the vac on and vise versus.


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## shofestoolusa (Dec 1, 2011)

Msargent said:


> Mt only issue with festool is that when using a sander and vacume at the same time in most old houses be prepared to reset the breakers.


Sorry, I missed seeing this post. If you're running into an issue where you're popping the breaker, just dial down the suction on the dust extractor. That will reduce the power draw. Even with the dust extractor turned all the way down, dust collection should be excellent under most conditions.

Generally, a 15 amp circuit should be able to handle the CT and sander at full tilt without a problem.

Shane


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I was worried about break as well when I bought my festool stuff, so far we have not tripped one.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

DeanV said:


> I was worried about break as well when I bought my festool stuff, so far we have not tripped one.


Me neither. And I was sanding cabinets all day yesterday in an older home.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Theres a couple of good ways to do it. 

Interior: put two sander/ectractor combos on one outlet and start them simultaneously with all controls cranked. This requires a trip to the panel usually. 

Exterior: Run about 150 feet of extension cord off the extractor to an outdated exterior gfi outlet. This requires resetting the gfi and reducing extension cordage. 

You have to do it once in a while just to feel like you are running some voltage.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

I just saw a festool circular saw in a shop

Who knew?

I guess they're not just making painters feel cool.


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

DeanV said:


> I was worried about break as well when I bought my festool stuff, so far we have not tripped one.


 I was concerned as well and talked to Festool about it. They said it drew under 15 amps and shouldn't be a problem. So far-so good. Have yet to blow a breaker.


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## AztecPainting (Jan 28, 2010)

I definitely want one of this cool Festool sanders and vacuums, is it too expensive?


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

AztecPainting said:


> I definitely want one of this cool Festool sanders and vacuums, is it too expensive?


Depends on what the term expensive means to you. 

I would suggest buying them as a combo which saves you some money. 

Here is the Festool Canadian site. http://www.festoolcanada.com/default.aspx use the where to buy button and it will narrow down your search.


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## AztecPainting (Jan 28, 2010)

Workaholic said:


> Depends on what the term expensive means to you.
> 
> I would suggest buying them as a combo which saves you some money.
> 
> Here is the Festool Canadian site. http://www.festoolcanada.com/default.aspx use the where to buy button and it will narrow down your search.


I was checking the US website and saw the prices in US dollars, prices are decent, pretty useless and retarded the website for Canada though, there is no option for pricing, neither for combos.


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## painterman (Jun 2, 2007)

Lee Valley has the full line of Festool with CND pricing.


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## WarlinePainting (May 22, 2011)

All your pricing for Canada is here: 

http://www.ultimatetools.ca/


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## WarlinePainting (May 22, 2011)

They can ship it to you overnight to the island. I think they actually have a store on the island as well.


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## Dunbar Painting (Mar 19, 2010)

WarlinePainting said:


> All your pricing for Canada is here:
> 
> http://www.ultimatetools.ca/



I got all my stuff here, these guys are great to talk to!


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## shofestoolusa (Dec 1, 2011)

AztecPainting said:


> I was checking the US website and saw the prices in US dollars, prices are decent, pretty useless and retarded the website for Canada though, there is no option for pricing, neither for combos.


Easy now. The Festool web guy happens to be a member here. :whistling2: There are updates coming to our website which will include prices being listed for Canada. You can preview some of the changes to the site on our Festool Paint website at http://www.festoolpaint.com, which I might add is not complete and does not currently have Canadian pricing (yet). Seriously though, my apologies that the sites don't accurately show you Canadian pricing. It's a priority to get that fixed.

We have a lot of great dealers in Canada. Rob Lee at Lee Valley and Dan Clermont at Ultimate Tools, just to name a few. I'm sure that they'll take great care of you.

As always, if you have specific questions now or after your purchase, I'd be glad to help out. We're definitely here to support you along the way.

Shane


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## WarlinePainting (May 22, 2011)

Luis, I highly recommend you get in contact with Dan Clermont at Ultimate Tools. He can hook you up with the right equipment for your needs.

Yes, it is an investment but it will pay for itself in no time.


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> Tim, in your case, if you don't do much sanding, buying an extractor as a stand alone tool may not be best for you. For people who sand alot, best possible extraction is critical.


And that's what it boils down to. I really don't do much heavy sanding at all, just small patches and whatnot. It probably would be overkill for a guy like me, but for someone who does extensive sanding on trim and stuff, it would warrant a high-end sander/extractor. Carry on. :cowboy:


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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

Aside from the dustless feature, does it really sand that much better then a Dewelt?


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Westview said:


> Aside from the dustless feature, does it really sand that much better then a Dewelt?


Oh, it's like jizz in a box man so it must, I mean _jazz_...


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## alertchief (Nov 12, 2009)

I have been using a 125eq on all walls now. Almost zero dust and knocks down the orange peel imperfections and high spots . Takes about 15 minutes or so to do a master bedroom and the finish appearance is excellent. A solid investment .


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## WarlinePainting (May 22, 2011)

Don't under estimate the value of dust-free. It's not just a selling feature for your customers. The amount of time you save having a clean work surface and cleaning up during and after the job is considerable.

Time equals money.


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

Westview said:


> Aside from the dustless feature, does it really sand that much better then a Dewelt?



Does a Lexus drive that much better than a Cobalt? 

You are talking about a tool built in Germany to high quality controls to a tool built in China to do a function. 

The picture is bigger than just getting a surface smooth.


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## Dunbar Painting (Mar 19, 2010)

WarlinePainting said:


> Don't under estimate the value of dust-free. It's not just a selling feature for your customers. The amount of time you save having a clean work surface and cleaning up during and after the job is considerable.
> 
> Time equals money.



True.

Funny thing is I inquired on this site about the possibilities of using Festool's dust free nature as a marketing tool. I was totally shot down by most of the folks here, but I guess it worked for you!


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## shofestoolusa (Dec 1, 2011)

Dunbar Painting said:


> True.
> Funny thing is I inquired on this site about the possibilities of using Festool's dust free nature as a marketing tool. I was totally shot down by most of the folks here, but I guess it worked for you!


Ask your previous clients or prospective clients. They are the ones whose opinions should matter most. I suspect the overwhelming majority will be intrigued by working with a painter who takes keeping their home clean seriously and who uses professional grade equipment for the highest quality results.

I'll bet that you rely on a fair amount of word-of-mouth for new business. Well, being dust free will certainly help that.


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

Dunbar Painting said:


> True.
> 
> Funny thing is I inquired on this site about the possibilities of using Festool's dust free nature as a marketing tool. I was totally shot down by most of the folks here, but I guess it worked for you!



Its an awesome marketing tool....one I feel will be the trend in coming years.

Check out my new business cards....


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

Here....


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Mmmmmm. More Koolaid please.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

WarlinePainting said:


> Don't under estimate the value of dust-free. It's not just a selling feature for your customers. The amount of time you save having a clean work surface and cleaning up during and after the job is considerable.
> 
> Time equals money.


I agree with everything you said except that time doesn't equal money. Time is worth much more. At least existentially.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Westview said:


> Aside from the dustless feature, does it really sand that much better then a Dewelt?


Thats a big 10-4.


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## WarlinePainting (May 22, 2011)

Dunbar Painting said:


> True.
> 
> Funny thing is I inquired on this site about the possibilities of using Festool's dust free nature as a marketing tool. I was totally shot down by most of the folks here, but I guess it worked for you!


I am drilling this into my customer's heads every chance I get. It is now part of ALL of my marketing. 

http://www.warlinepainting.ca/snapblog/readblog.asp?blogid=1653

If I don't teach them the value of it, how will they ever know?


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