# retired Lacquer specialist, trying Southwest Builders Enamel



## son of a swen (May 19, 2013)

Just finished building my kitchen cabinets out of poplar banded shop birch, no pulls, soft close drawers. 35 Dr and dr fronts.

Doing a slight off white semi gloss finish, suing, or I want to use the Sherwin Williams Southwest Builders Alkyd Enamel. Will build with the S/W high build oil primer.
The thing is....I am so used to using Nitro Lacquer ( retired, used thousands of gallons in the old days, transitioned to making high end wall coverings, but that is another story) so I am trying to figure out what type of coats to put on with the Southwest Builders material. By that I mean, something just past a "piss" coat ( a very light coat) the first go around, then another coat on top of that after it has dried, then maybe a third? Like I said, I am used to Lacquers, and depending on temps and conditions and thinning( yes, it was not pre thinned when I bought most of it )
Any advice from those who have shot a lot of both materials would be greatly appreciated. Planning to thin the material with Naptha, maybe 5%? and have a stud with plastic booth, some house fans and a whole house electric heater to work with. Temps will be close or bellow the minimum, hence the big output elec. heater. Plan is to get the priming done, and when sanded after curing, start the top coats with the shop heated up, open roll door enough to exhaust makeshift booth, then close up and re heat with electric heat.
I know...advice is usually worth what you pay for it.......


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

I thought SW southwest builders was a cheaper line? More for NC? Why not use a Cadillac finish if you built the cabs yourself? Sorry I don't know lacquer enough to comment intelligently on this. Tho I'm not sure why you don't want to use lacquer on this job. Explosion concerns ?


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## son of a swen (May 19, 2013)

NC on kitchen cabinets....I know that Lacquer has improved over the years, have used pre-cat,etc., but in my experience Lacquer is not as durable as enamel in a kitchen.

kdpaint...what did DamionT say that was worthy of your "like"?

Explosion concerns?? WTF? 
I have a shop, have 40 years of experience in all types of finishing, but not enamel, worked for Interior Designers, special furniture finishes, etc.etc.,etc.

Some of the cabinets will be a very slight off white, the island will be a fairly bright yellow, Zebra wood cap on Island splash. A Mid-Century Modern New House.

( the term "specialist" was used not to put on airs, but just stating a fact that I have limited experience with oil base products..not a complete ass, just a partial one 
Am I over thinking this?
Any advice from people who know what I am talking about would help. I just do not want to overbuild with Enamel, thinking a 413 tip, can control conditions fairly well.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

I would suggest using a Fine-Finish tip instead of a standard single orifice.
With the variety of FF tip sizes available you can get all the control you need and get a better finish.


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## son of a swen (May 19, 2013)

Thank you Slinger58!! ...those are the details I am looking for.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

I would second Damon's opinion that SW's builders alkyd enamel is not a great product. That was my first reason for a "like." There are about 15 products I could list off the top of my head I would use over that one, including some lacquers, of which a few are more durable than most enamels.

A 2nd, somewhat lesser reason for "like" is that 2 people I know of in my area blew themselves up because of non-explosion proof equipment. One guy with alkyd paint, one guy w/ lacquer. One of them, the guy who lived (not well btw) swore he had good ventilation.


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## son of a swen (May 19, 2013)

thanks for the input kdpaint. I am not worried about blowing myself up ( other than in a egotistical way 

Wondering, since I am open to all and any products that will give a great durable and long lasting finish, and am doing a semi-gloss spray finish, I would be interested in your suggestions on what product to use other than the Southwest Builders product. The S.B product was recommended by the Sherwin Williams dealer that I have an account at. Temps here in Oregon probably hovering around 50 on a good day, 50% humidity.

O, and the check is in the mail...

Eric


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

If it were my own cabinets I would use the very best finish I could get. I would use an acrylic lacquer before builders grade oil enamel. If you want nice oil enamel buy some of this stuff.. 
http://www.finepaintsofeurope.com/hollandlac_info.aspx


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

For alkyd products from SW I really like the Pro-Industrial, and Pro-Classic alkyd is pretty good. 

Most companies have moved into the alkyd modified acrylics, and some are great products. The look and feel of oil, soap and water clean up, minimal stink. SW has one, it is only OK. BM's Advance is way better. If you can get Cloverdale in Oregon, I hear that one is very good too.

I've had some experience with SW's Kem Aqua waterborne lacquer and it is impressive. ML Campbell has some great lacquer products. Both waterborne products are hard as hell and you can sand in 15-20 minutes in right conditions.

I'm about 100% done with non waterborne lacquers and 95% with alkyd paints. I don't miss them much, but alkyds have their place sometimes.


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## northcountrypainter (Dec 7, 2012)

I really like SW kem aqua for cabinets.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

straight_lines said:


> If it were my own cabinets I would use the very best finish I could get. I would use an acrylic lacquer before builders grade oil enamel. If you want nice oil enamel buy some of this stuff..
> http://www.finepaintsofeurope.com/hollandlac_info.aspx


Yes. That stuff is as good as it gets. As for the WB lacquer, I concur with this as well. Builders anything=nope.


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## son of a swen (May 19, 2013)

Kem-Aqua...I think i must have used the rubbed effect (clear ) as clear coats on the wallcoverings I made between 1992 and 2000...Hundreds of gallons, at least.

As a solid color..humm, they did not have that product in a solid color when I was in biz. Can't seem to get over the prejudices I have against W.B products, my bad I know.
the one major reason I am still thinking about Southwest Builders alkyd Enamel is because it sets up quickly and dries very fast. I do know of the SW ProClassic Alkyd Oil base enamel..have used it some, sort of thinking about that product, but dry times are slow.
So, if I did use the Southwest Builders product, would you suggest just light almost piss coats, with a dry time between coats..no flood coats (like in the old days of NC lacquer...)
That is the info I am looking for on the oil base products...handling charastics
and my habits from spraying NC for years and would be, could be disastrous.
OK, I just reread kd's last post...NO Southwest Builders anything...oy.

Eric


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I wouldn't paint my dogs house in a builders line product. Its the cheapest that paint can be made, and truth be told the metal can is probably more valuable than whats inside.


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## son of a swen (May 19, 2013)

Straight Lines... The Fine European Paint application says Brush...no, can't do a whole kitchen that way but thanks...


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

Yeah, maybe the Builders has characteristics like quick set up, but ultimately it does not have the hi end finish that custom cabs deserve. If you want alkyd characteristics and quick-ish set up and drying, check out BM Advance or maybe SW Proclassic, which actually sets up and dries faster than Advance. I just like Advance better.

The Fine Paints stuff is world class, but about $130 for a can.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

This is acrylic lacquer, SW kem aqua plus mid gloss. Excellent product.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

son of a swen said:


> Straight Lines... The Fine European Paint application says Brush...no, can't do a whole kitchen that way but thanks...


These weren't brushed.. 
http://www.painttalk.com/f2/high-gloss-fine-paints-europe-best-practice-27166/


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## son of a swen (May 19, 2013)

https://mail-attachment.googleuserc...452&sads=WE2jJ51IRLqGOmKjFLjO6oQ2t_Q&sadssc=1


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## son of a swen (May 19, 2013)




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## DONZI (Dec 23, 2013)

If your used to spraying lacquer, why not go with conversion varnish? Its pretty similar to spraying lacquer, but its 10 times more durable. Also, modern lacquers are durable enough for kitchen cabinets in my opion


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## son of a swen (May 19, 2013)

Donzi, Using a very new airless, not going to get any new set up at this point in my life. (retired) Talking about a solid color finish, not clears involved. Going for best possible finish in a semi gloss. Probably just go with SW ProClassic alkyd oil based. Hate using it, big job,
will give it my best shot. 
40 + years experience with Lacquer not helping me much at this point. Gearing up for one production run, and then closing down my shop. these are cabinets i built of my house, a butterfly roof design and a mid-century modern feel. I am my worst critic.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Just my two cents, but I hope I never ever have to spray alkyd enamel again. 

Unlike lacquer, there is lots of sticky nasty overspray that gets on everything in the spray area.

Like others are suggesting, there are some better options available that will match or exceed the durability of solvent-borne alkyds.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

WB lacquers and conversion varnishes come in solid colors, not just clears.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

slinger58 said:


> Just my two cents, but I hope I never ever have to spray alkyd enamel again.
> 
> Unlike lacquer, there is lots of sticky nasty overspray that gets on everything in the spray area.
> 
> Like others are suggesting, there are some better options available that will match or exceed the durability of solvent-borne alkyds.



I feel the same way about spraying lacquer vs enamel. So do most lacquer guys I know. 
If your used to spraying lacquer, enamel is a sticky mess.
Good luck with your project, let us know how it turns out.


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## DONZI (Dec 23, 2013)

like kd said, conversion varnish comes in solid colors. I just don't like spraying the enamel because it never looks factory finish like lacquers or conversion varnishes, which most factory cabinet makers use. Good luck with project, and post picts when finished!


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

DONZI said:


> If your used to spraying lacquer, why not go with conversion varnish? Its pretty similar to spraying lacquer, but its 10 times more durable. Also, modern lacquers are durable enough for kitchen cabinets in my opion


They're certainly durable enough to help us make good money refinishing them a few years later....


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## son of a swen (May 19, 2013)

well , I ain't stuck on enamel ( pun ) and I think, even though all I have these days is an airless, is to run some of the conversion varnish through it and see what that looks like before I commit to enamel , and yes, I hate enamel (from what I remember..about it years ago. Like adding some Lacquer thinner to speed things up, just a bit though.
Now, to find some colored conversion varnish here in Oregon, that may be a task.
Looking for Yellow and Green...(no, those the Ducks football colors..sometimes,
go DAT.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

I've used the Southwest Builders oil from Sherwin for almost 20 years, (way back when it used to dry almost as fast as lacquer). I think your game plan for the painting process sounds fine, as long as you're incorporating air-flow with heat. 
To answer your question as far as how to apply the Southwest Builders, I'd suggest never doing a fog coat, or as you said, "piss-coat". You're likely to end up with a rough feel and a foggy look. I love that Southwest Builders oil, but you've gotta make sure and apply a minimum of a 75% coat in order to insure optimum results. 

Two more suggestions: 
-Make sure you're primer is good and thick so you can get away with 2 coats of your top-coat. Mistakes or mishaps are easily fixable during the priming stage, so you're better off adding more millage with primer in order to get away with 2 coats of finish versus 3. 
-Other suggestion would be to thin with Mineral Spirits or Paint Thinner. I've seen that paint wrinkle on more than one occasion because someone tried to get cute with their thinning solvents. Although you might not have any issue using Naptha, I'd stick with what's been proven to work without exception. Even with Southwest Builders reformulating their product years back to meet V.O.C. regulations, it dries plenty fast when cut with paint thinner or mineral spirits.


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## son of a swen (May 19, 2013)

Hey Portland! I thank you for the posityive input on the Southwest Builders paint. I appreciate every word of your message. Hopefully the weather down here in Eugene will be over 50 degrees, plus I do have a whole house electric heater located where the incoming air will go into my shop. Building a 10' 10' x 9' high 2x4 booth with clear 3 mill plastic sheeting over it, and 3 20x20 exhaust fans. A far cry from the auto booth I had in the 70's for finishing furniture, but it should help. I plan on using the easy sand SW oil primer, sanding and filling the poplar banded birch ply now. Doing inside and out on all cabs, with contrasting color on a 10' Island.
Southwest Builders alkyd Enamel says dry to touch in one hour at 70 deg., is that your experience?

Eric


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