# battling fine finish trim, makes want to inject myself with paint



## darrpreb00 (Aug 31, 2008)

Just going to say it now. I suck and am about to go to the diy forum. Doing a nc job and its been my nightmare. Finally got the trim to behave right with oil based primer. We sanded it down using an orbital on the big flat areas, and came through with sponges and tuned it in. All 220. Anything else seemed to show through finish. Then we side lighted all of the stuff at eye level and made sure it was perfectly smooth. No orange peel at all. Primer was zinsser prime all? I think I should have thinned it. Then vaccumed, tacked and spayed a fog coat, let it dry. And layed it till it was a mirror finish. Its dura poxy. I got runs on every other jam. Ambient conditions sucked due to no thermostat. So I got space heaters and a propane heater. ( I know, moisture) anyways, I think by the time it got hot enough it was too humid. Experimented spraying different. Seems like just as it was on there perfect, it ran away. I sprayed a different house with thinned oil unique and it was soooo beautiful.... I ended up fogging it all thin and saying f*** it. Does anyone else despise latex if its not 80 degrees with windows open? Or should I just pull the trigger on my wrist here???


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## Susan (Nov 29, 2011)

Don't eat the pistol. They taste like metal. What tip are you using? If the trim is as smooth as you say, it would take an experienced trigger man to lay that down correct. Wide moldings you said? It can be done.

What product ?


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

As much as I love the finish of oil, I love how easy latex is to use and fix if needed. I use lifemaster semi from Dulux, or HP2000 from GP if someone wants is (good product for spray, horribly bad at brush and roll coverage)

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## darrpreb00 (Aug 31, 2008)

310 tip and durapoxy kelly moore. It was pretty high pressure from smal spraytech pump. Trying to get it to atomize better.


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## Professional Painter (Mar 15, 2014)

Where are the primary run areas, corners?

Professional Painter


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## Jtpaintalot (May 4, 2011)

Crank heat. Plug in 2 110 volt heaters or 1 drywall heater . Get it up to 72-75 deg f and spray 2 -3 light coats. Don't try and do it in one coat no matter what. Trail and error will get it right. I like 310 fine tip by graco. I use all sorts of trim paint such as solo/ Sherwin , ecologic / Cloverdale , hp 2000 by general. I never use the cheaper lines , but not the most expensive either. Maybe dial down machine a little.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Try spraying your door jambs in one motion. Start at the bottom, work up, across, then down the other side to the bottom. This way your corners won't get over lapped, and over loaded. Second, you are most likely applying to much paint if you are spraying vertically until it looks like a mirror. Apply a lighter coat and allow the paint to level as it dries.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

What Excel said. Also humidity is a big factor as you know. 
You can add a little denatured alcohol to help it flash off quicker. I never do but if you're having trouble getting it to setup it might be an option. 
Only turn up your pressure enough to get even pattern. Not maxed out. 
Warm up your paint. This is key. Warm paint will hold better on cooler surfaces and resist sagging. 
Oh yeah, don't forget to pray to the paint gods before you start spraying. Definitely helps.


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## bbair (Nov 18, 2012)

You must need to moved a little ticker cause a 310 is my preferred tip for most trim.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

When i got in I noticed a few old timers, you know more than two. They had the tip of their index finger missing. How bout that why?
Prior to airless machines spraying was done conventional. A lot of guys had the habit of checking the air coming out the tip with their fingers. Bad habit to have with the new spangled airless! Paint injection is bad stuff. If it happens you go right to the emergency room. Save ur appendages.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Damon T said:


> What Excel said. Also humidity is a big factor as you know.
> You can add a little denatured alcohol to help it flash off quicker. I never do but if you're having trouble getting it to setup it might be an option.
> Only turn up your pressure enough to get even pattern. Not maxed out.
> Warm up your paint. This is key. Warm paint will hold better on cooler surfaces and resist sagging.
> Oh yeah, don't forget to pray to the paint gods before you start spraying. Definitely helps.


Agree alcohol may be his answer!:whistling2:


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## ejs (Nov 4, 2011)

When I spray uninstalled base and doors I make sure the room , shop, etc., is heated the day before I spray. I turn the furnace off while I spray and when the paint sets up a bit I turn it back on. Although I live in a small town and have few options for product, the best paint I have used for doors and trim is General Paint's Monamel/ a hybrid. If you get used to it or a similar product I'd bet one coat and no tack, will achieve. I practice on leftover base, and many other "dump run " debris to see the results, and the kid who sprays with me, (or I do) videos our effort so we can break it down, improve, and work easy.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

ejs said:


> When I spray uninstalled base and doors I make sure the room , shop, etc., is heated the day before I spray. I turn the furnace off while I spray and when the paint sets up a bit I turn it back on. Although I live in a small town and have few options for product, the best paint I have used for doors and trim is General Paint's Monamel/ a hybrid. If you get used to it or a similar product I'd bet one coat and no tack, will achieve. I practice on leftover base, and many other "dump run " debris to see the results, and the kid who sprays with me, (or I do) videos our effort so we can break it down, improve, and work easy.



Man, do I feel old.


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## darrpreb00 (Aug 31, 2008)

Thank you guys, off to work. Talk here soon. Very good pointers. Yes they were in the corners...


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## Professional Painter (Mar 15, 2014)

That's what I suspected. This can be typical for the inexperienced painter and even for some with experience. The orifice size of the tip is an important factor. Said respectfully, if you were spraying with something like a 517 tip, you may want to consider heading over to the DIY forum. Somebody had mentioned a 310 tip. This is a good tip size but I'll get back to tip size in a minute. 

It sounds to me like the person spraying is using the incorrect technique when spraying the jams, perhaps mixed with incorrect spraying distances, angles, speed and/or pressure. If you don't mind, please allow me to offer a few pointers to help eliminate or drastically reduce this from happening again.

All substrates should be sprayed directly toward the surface with the spray pattern being equal form the top of the spray to the bottom. In other words, you want the distance from the tip to the surface to be equal across the fan pattern of spray. Try your best not to angle the gun in a manner that thwarts this from happening at all times.

Adjust your pressure to the appropriate pressure. You don't want fingering (pressure too low) and you don't want to create a scenario you are describing (pressure too high/incorrect spraying techniques/possible wrong tip). I will trust that you know how to do this already.

Keep your distance correct. If you are trying to minimize over spray by keeping close to the substrate, then you are saving zero time. In fact, you will have wasted more time fixing the drips and providing a not so perfect end result than if you had properly masked the area to begin with. If the area is properly masked, then you can bring the gun back away from the substrate to get a thinner coat with less likelihood of the paint having a chance to drip before drying in a stable manner.

Watch your speed. As mentioned before, you don't want a mirror finish on the first pass. This will almost certainly guarantee you drips. Finding a correct speed is somewhat of an art but if you are completely coating a corner on the first pass, then you are going too slow. Speed it up a bit.

To spray the sides of the trim that meet up with the wall, Be sure to nail a direct spray, angled on the spray pattern from about a foot or so away (perhaps more depending on speed and pressure). Keeping the spray pattern equal from top to bottom, tilt the gun to where the top of the spray pattern is barely hitting the wall and the bottom of the spray pattern is barely spraying toward the center of the opening. Go quick and steady from the bottom of the door or window all of the way up to the top corner. One very important rule to remember here is to keep the gun as close to the wall as possible without hitting the wall itself. If you hit the sides of the trim at an angle away from the wall, you are applying paint to the front of the trim. This is what you want to avoid, especially around the corner areas. Same thing for the top of the doors. Get up on a ladder and spray the top the same exact way, then move on to the other side of the door casing to complete that side of the door.

Once the sides of the trim that meet the wall are completely coated, then spray the rest of the casing being sure to keep the spray fan pattern completely equal as you spray up and down, side to side. Start the spraying "off grid", if you will. If you start spraying at the corner of the trim, you are applying a burst of pressure in one spot. If you do this a second time when covering across the top, you are dramatically increasing the chance for drips. Always start the spraying *while moving the gun at an appropriate speed* on the wall and keep going until you are past the trim on the other side with every spray. Keep a steady, consistent speed and distance along with a direct spray and the potential for drips can be a thing of the past.

As a general rule, all semi gloss should be dry enough to blade off of within 30 or so minutes after spraying with latex. If this isn't possible with your doors, then IME you are still spraying too heavy. With oil based paints, it's best to simply spray all of the doors and trim and leave it to dry overnight so there would be zero chance of disturbing an immaculately sprayed surface. 

If you still have issues, then _consider_ spraying the door very lightly on two separate occasions, perhaps an hour or so apart from each other. While this is not ideal from a time standpoint, it sure beats dealing with drips on a fine finish. I do not recommend doing it this way. The best way would be to learn how to spray the doors and windows correctly to begin with.

Back to the tips. A 310 is a good tip to start out with. If you head the suggestions aforementioned and are still having issues, then you might consider trying a fine finish tip and spraying even further back for a lighter coverage spray. Something along the lines of a 210 fine finish tip until you can get the hang of the spray technique. I hope this helps.

Professional Painter.


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## darrpreb00 (Aug 31, 2008)

Ive only been painting for 8 years or so and dont do fine finish too often any more. So all the advice helps alot. I am thinking my pressure is up too high, tempurature too low, humidity too high, speed up around corners, quit acting so short and spray casings straight on, start starting to spray off of the window casings, try a 210, spend the 1500 I made today painting for 14 hrs and go buy an air assisted airless  oh I guess no one said that one.... but I really want one!! Think they are alot more... I cant wait for exteriors! My buddy is painting one already. Or trying I think

sIve been told to turn it up just past fingering and not listen to the can (2200 psi).


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## darrpreb00 (Aug 31, 2008)

mudbone said:


> Agree alcohol may be his answer!:whistling2:


Never knew you could use denatured? Quit drinking a few years ago and almost started again that day. To think that it really was my answer...


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## Susan (Nov 29, 2011)

NC, how would you spray built ins ? Hit your tops and corners first. Exterior edges second, bang the rest of the trim, then run your boxes.


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## darrpreb00 (Aug 31, 2008)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> Try spraying your door jambs in one motion. Start at the bottom, work up, across, then down the other side to the bottom. This way your corners won't get over lapped, and over loaded. Second, you are most likely applying to much paint if you are spraying vertically until it looks like a mirror. Apply a lighter coat and allow the paint to level as it dries.


Ok, I should stop checking the sheen. Its like im checking to make sure its gonna run


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Also try holding your gun further back. Airless atomizes by a process involving air disturbance or turbulence. It's not just going through the tip that causes atomization. It needs to blast through the air. My "coach" (the head instructor for Boeing) was telling me they spray about 18" away from the surface. Try 15" or so away. See if that helps and report back 


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## darrpreb00 (Aug 31, 2008)

Damon T said:


> Also try holding your gun further back. Airless atomizes by a process involving air disturbance or turbulence. It's not just going through the tip that causes atomization. It needs to blast through the air. My "coach" (the head instructor for Boeing) was telling me they spray about 18" away from the surface. Try 15" or so away. See if that helps and report back
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PaintTalk.com


Really? That may be the issue?!? If I can get it on there thinner i can achieve the even sheen and not run away on me! Thats why I had pressure up too high also, trying to atomize it better because of this issue. This paint (durapoxy) doesnt seem to blend/lay out as it dries. It looks the same dry as wgen its sprayed or worse. The foggy lines always show. I remember using southwest builders solo and I could fog it lighter and it would melt into a perfect finish.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

darrpreb00 said:


> Never knew you could use denatured? Quit drinking a few years ago and almost started again that day. To think that it really was my answer...


Good for you!:thumbup:it's been 20 something for me.


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## darrpreb00 (Aug 31, 2008)

I finally got smart enough to ask for the thermostat to be installed yesterday. And it was installed. Imagine that. I took another run at the foggy looking doors ( because I was scared to ruin them with runs) the doors heated up so much that all of the screws hoding them togather were loose. They almost fell over. Thats how much of a difference the heat made. I turned down the pressure and sprayed them from about 18 inches away and the results were amazing!!!! It turnes out ive being spraying like a rabbid chimp for years for no reason. At 18 inches with a 410 I use on doors, there is quite a bit of overspray and maybe thats why I never sprayed that far away. And always thought more pressure was better. The doors turned out like mirrors. Stupid huh??? Im pretty stoked, may never battle trim again.


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## darrpreb00 (Aug 31, 2008)

mudbone said:


> Good for you!:thumbup:it's been 20 something for me.


20 years huh? I joke about getting a gold 3 year coin, lol. My business and life in general improved ten fold when I quit. Homeowners dont know what to do with a painter that doesnt drink. It gives me an edge on most my competition from them being flaky and stinky I think. I think I get jobs for more these days just from being happy, sober and clean.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Right on bro. Glad it worked out! I can't imagine trying to spray without proper temps. 


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