# HO says I broke a light fixture



## Get It Painted (Sep 12, 2013)

hi fellows,
I painted a customers kitchen ceiling last week. the next day, the house wife noticed a horseshoe shaped crack in the inner white globe. This white globe was protected by a clear glass globe. With no damage to the outer glass. of course, I am getting the blame for the breakage. I honestly didn't bang into the light in any way. But they said, you were the only one in the house at the time. the light fixture is a $440 value.
how would you handle this if you had no explanation for the light crack?
I personally think the bulb was too powerful for the fixture.
I am insured.
Your thoughts?


----------



## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Can't see how you could have done it without damaging the outer. Present it to them as such.


----------



## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

Tell them without proof, they can stuff it.
If you really didn't do it then they're looking for a scapegoat, don't allow this.

EDIT: $400.00? Yeah, you're getting set up...nobody would flat out accuse someone without proof, there's no diplomatic way out at this point.


----------



## sully9er (Jan 24, 2011)

If the outer globe is fine and you did not remove it for any reason, then they are looking to put blame on the easiest target. They figure if you don't replace it, they won't pay or stop payment. Explain in a non condescending manner that if the outer globe isn't damaged, you could not possibly be responsible for what happens to a globe inside it.


----------



## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

Just being the devil's advocate here, but you could easily break the inside globe without damaging the outside. If you accidentally hit the outside part, and it gets to swinging, the thin, delicate inside globe could whack into the heavy outside globe and get cracked. Don't ask me how I know this. Just sayin...


----------



## Get It Painted (Sep 12, 2013)

ProWallGuy said:


> Just being the devil's advocate here, but you could easily break the inside globe without damaging the outside. If you accidentally hit the outside part, and it gets to swinging, the thin, delicate inside globe could whack into the heavy outside globe and get cracked. Don't ask me how I know this. Just sayin...


Yes, I thought the same thing. But I didn't whack it. here it is from a distance...

Should I tell my insurance company that I did break it? 

They want me to pay for it.


----------



## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

Get It Painted said:


> Yes, I thought the same thing. But I didn't whack it. here it is from a distance...
> 
> Should I tell my insurance company that I did break it?
> 
> They want me to pay for it.


No, don't mention anything yet.

I see you've got the island papered...man, good luck.


----------



## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

i would see if the inside glass has any movement, take your hand & VERY gentle see if it moves

looks like the rod from the top goes thu the outer glass and usually their is a rubber gasket and the rod them connects to the inside glass, does't look like it moves 








if it get ugly ask for a receipt , check date & pro rate cost
it the same thing an insurance company would do

and if you do have to pay make sure you get old light & hang it where you'll have to see it everyday :whistling2:

that way you'll never forget & learn to check for damage BEFORE you start and take pic


----------



## Get It Painted (Sep 12, 2013)

Repaint Florida said:


> i would see if the inside glass has any movement, take your hand & VERY gentle see if it moves
> 
> looks like the rod from the top goes thu the outer glass and usually their is a rubber gasket and the rod them connects to the inside glass, does't look like it moves
> View attachment 19365


There is a little movement on the globe inside.
The customer has me second guessing myself. I know I didn't whack it. but, there may have been a chance that the two glasses connected lightly while covering and uncovering with plastic. I am really not sure. 
After painting the ceiling and at the end of the day, I cleaned up and didn't think twice about breaking anything. Just went home and came back in the morning. About lunch time, the HO said, oh, there is a crack in the light... I quickly said, I did not do it, I handled your stuff with care.

The husband called that night and said, you were the only one in the house, how else could it have broke? I said, I have no idea.

But as wise painters said, I have the island covered up with contractor paper. That shows that I took much care to protect there stuff.


----------



## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

You didn't do it. Either they did it or their electrician did it when installing. You came along and now, to ease their frustration and to get a freebie, they are blaming you. This happened to me when a woman I painted for said I sheared off the $300 spout to her whirlpool tub. I had noticed it was sheared off and someone had put it back in place hoping she wouldn't notice. So I told her about it and got the accusation. I have a loud, direct voice which I used in this instance to back her down from her accusation. I was really pissed off. Anyway, it ended up that the dang plumber sheared it off on the install. Of course, she never said, "Sorry."


----------



## dan-o (Sep 28, 2008)

If you wind up paying for it I wouldn't make a claim for $400.
Just pay out of pocket.

I'd also check to see if the inner/out globes can physically contact each other as RF suggested.

Finally, I bet you can just replace the inner globe for a fraction of the fixture price.


----------



## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

I just went through something similar a week ago. Myself and two other guys were working in a room and a light fixture that was covered with plastic fell to the ground. I told the home owners and two days later they twisted the story to "we removed it to paint". After explaining to them again that we would not remove the fixture. I offered to buy them a new fixture but these ppl had not painted in the last 20 yrs and loved the light. Finally it came down to me setting them up with an electrician to see if they could get the old one to work again.


----------



## Brian C (Oct 8, 2011)

I have a no liability for damage to light fittings, glass and roof tiles in my contact.


----------



## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

Don't pay them shít. They just want their kitchen painted for FREE.


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I would pay them for it and then take your roller pole and smash the sh!t out of it like a Piñata. :jester:


----------



## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

Just break the other one and tell them they are custom lights that no one else in the world has.


----------



## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

Ask for a receipt, or proof that it cost $400...


----------



## Joeb3rg (Feb 13, 2013)

straight_lines said:


> I would pay them for it and then take your roller pole and smash the sh!t out of it like a Piñata. :jester:


VERY TRUE. Happens to me all the time. Were working condominiums right now , we're getting blamed for 7 year olds "drops" of paint from the previous painters. On a walk through , I'll check EVERYTHING , taking pictures of anything out of the ordinary(i.e. light fixture, but who looks at a light fixture? I DO, If I see something, I address it to the home owner...problem solved.


----------



## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Stuff like this happens when you work in people's homes. Someone comes in to work, and they start checking everything when they are done and find stuff. How many times have you been out on an estimate, point out some cracks in the ceiling that need fixing and they say "I had no idea they were there!" This is kinda like that. 

Sometimes, you just have to suck it up and pay for something that you had no part in breaking. Your reputation is worth MORE than $400.


----------



## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

$400 ??... Yeah new maybe but they've been using it an have gotten use out of it... Pro rate after seeing a receipt... No receipt then
Find a Comparable Light an pro rate that .... On your way out twist your ankle coming down the steps


----------



## MKap (Sep 11, 2010)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Stuff like this happens when you work in people's homes. Someone comes in to work, and they start checking everything when they are done and find stuff. How many times have you been out on an estimate, point out some cracks in the ceiling that need fixing and they say "I had no idea they were there!" This is kinda like that.
> 
> Sometimes, you just have to suck it up and pay for something that you had no part in breaking. Your reputation is worth MORE than $400.


Ah the never ending fun of small business self employment. **** happens. 
I agree with Schmidt. Pay for it and move on. I know it's blackmail but who knows what they can do to your reputation over $400.


----------



## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

MKap said:


> Ah the never ending fun of small business self employment. **** happens.
> I agree with Schmidt. Pay for it and move on. I know it's blackmail but who knows what they can do to your reputation over $400.


^no.


----------



## cdaniels (Oct 20, 2012)

Was it a repeat customer?Doesn't sound like it or it could have been easily resolved.It depends on the situation but If I didn't do it and they didn't believe me then I wouldn't give 'em jack.If they had been good customers or referred by good folks the situation changes.Like Paul said, your reputation is more valuable than their hoytie toytie light fixture.


----------



## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

A) Most deductibles are more than 400

B) You will never win, in the long run, if you fight them

C) agree to replace it, offer to do the "leg work" and therefore need to know brand, model number etc. If they don't have that, then their supplier

D) either buy it online or from their supplier for the $100 it's worth.

E) don't waste more time on the issue than the $400 they say it's worth.


----------



## benthepainter (Jun 17, 2011)

In America 

Doesnt 3fiddy fix most things ? Just keep it reelz and move on 

Us Pro's dont have time for such bull****


----------



## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Get some duct tape and fix it :thumbsup:


----------



## benthepainter (Jun 17, 2011)

Woodland said:


> Get some duct tape and fix it :thumbsup:


Imagine doing that : p


----------



## Get It Painted (Sep 12, 2013)

daArch said:


> A) Most deductibles are more than 400
> 
> B) You will never win, in the long run, if you fight them
> 
> ...


I talked to my ins co. they said I have NO deductible. 
Price was $440... what about the electrician to install?

How do I tell my ins co I broke it? My answer is, I have no idea how it broke... Should I lie and say a hit it with my paint pole while rolling? I am not feeling good about lying. I feel like it is fraud...


----------



## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

benthepainter said:


> In America
> 
> Doesnt 3fiddy fix most things ? Just keep it reelz and move on
> 
> Us Pro's dont have time for such bull****


LOL. Ben, that pic makes me think you been spraying lacquer today. 
Without a respirator! :blink::jester:


----------



## BrushstrokesInc. (Jun 15, 2009)

Just my thoughts, I would compare the broken light to the other light to see if all hardware is the same, maybe it was not installed correctly with the proper parts, such as rubber washers. I would also, look for a replacement on Ebay. Good luck.


----------



## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Get It Painted said:


> I talked to my ins co. they said I have NO deductible.
> Price was $440... what about the electrician to install?
> 
> How do I tell my ins co I broke it? My answer is, I have no idea how it broke... Should I lie and say a hit it with my paint pole while rolling? I am not feeling good about lying. I feel like it is fraud...


DO NOT lie.

Actually, this is a good development. Tell your Ins Co the TRUTH. Tell them you can not remember doing anything that would have broken it. Tell them exactly what happened. Do not unequivocally deny any possibility that you broke it, after all you were working it its vicinity and COULD have nudged it (if that is the TRUTH). Tell them how the HO called you and SAID you broke it as you were the only one in the home that day.

Tell the HO you have reported it to your Ins Co and they will handle the issue.

If your Ins Co refuses the claim, then I guess you are off the hook

Insurance companies know how to smell out a fraudulent claim. 

let the Ins Co do what they are paid to do. Don't waste your time on it.

I had a HUGE damage claim against me. I offered to pay out of pocket. Then I realized I was covered. The Ins Co was able to establish the REAL cost, without GC and Architects markup. Ins Co ended up paying about 40% of what I was told I had to pay. And when it's more than a few thousand, that makes a BIG difference.


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

daArch said:


> I had a HUGE damage claim against me. I offered to pay out of pocket. Then I realized I was covered. The Ins Co was able to establish the REAL cost, without GC and Architects markup. Ins Co ended up paying about 40% of what I was told I had to pay. And when it's more than a few thousand, that makes a BIG difference.


And the moral of the story is......Don't let Bill in your house


----------



## SeaMonster (Apr 13, 2009)

Pay for it and walk away happy that they don't want you to refinish their floors. 

For all interiors, my first visit is estimate, second visit is damage inspection. Every single scratch on the floor is photographed and presented to the home-owner in a neat little report. It's just a template and it takes about 10 minutes to fill it up with 10-15 photos of whatever we find.


----------



## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> And the moral of the story is......Don't let Bill in your house


she deserved it :whistling2:


----------



## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

benthepainter said:


> In America
> 
> Doesnt 3fiddy fix most things ? Just keep it reelz and move on
> 
> Us Pro's dont have time for such bull****


No time for bull but time for behr:yes:


----------



## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

On my last job the HO moved a box fan into the area we had to pass through to get to our work area. One day I accidentally hit it with my knee (had my knee pads on) and knocked it over and one of the blades broke off. It was obviously old and a pretty crappy looking fan, and he insisted it was no big deal, regardless, when I made out the statement I knocked off $50 because of it (I looked around to try and just buy them a new one but no one still had any available). 

I didn't have to do it, and they didn't expect it, but I felt it was a small price to pay for leaving them with a good impression of us - at least in that respect.


----------



## Carl (Jun 18, 2011)

It's amazing that everyone is assuming that the homeowners are just looking for a free paint job....

My customers are generally nice people. I would first look at it from their side. It wasn't broke prior to painting and now it is. What would you think if you were them?


----------



## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Karma's a bitch.


----------



## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

Carl said:


> It's amazing that everyone is assuming that the homeowners are just looking for a free paint job....
> 
> My customers are generally nice people. I would first look at it from their side. It wasn't broke prior to painting and now it is. What would you think if you were them?


I was wondering when someone would post this very logical statement. And to add to your point, I think it only appropriate to mention that, surely, there have been times that some of us have been granted a "reprieve" by good customers who overlooked a "mistake" by us or one of our employees.

For example, I painted the exterior and nearly the entire interior of a customer's house, with no problems and great results. He was very satisfied (I think approximately $1500.00 in bonuses on top of my prices for the jobs). So I didn't hesitate, when asked, to change out a bad bulb in his fancy linear ceiling track lighting system. In the process of trying to remove the faulty bulb (hardly any room whatsoever to get a hold of the bulb to unscrew it), I managed to break the top of the light where it slides/attaches inside the track.

I read the information inside the light, unsuccessfully tried to replace it with an exact duplicate (system is 13 years old and manufacturer doesn't have that style anymore). I still haven't fixed the problem I created, and have heard nothing from this man. 

After reading this thread, as soon as I have the time I am going to purchase and install 4 brand-new replacement lights (not just the one) for him. And I will show him the many types he can choose from, no matter the cost. It seems I have experienced the exact opposite treatment than the originator of this thread, and I should get off my butt and show this homeowner that I appreciated his business and generosity.


----------



## Carl (Jun 18, 2011)

So true....sometimes after I finish a job, I find myself wondering, geez those people were so nice, I wonder even if I did screw something up, would they even tell me?


----------



## cdaniels (Oct 20, 2012)

daArch said:


> DO NOT lie.
> 
> Actually, this is a good development. Tell your Ins Co the TRUTH. Tell them you can not remember doing anything that would have broken it. Tell them exactly what happened. Do not unequivocally deny any possibility that you broke it, after all you were working it its vicinity and COULD have nudged it (if that is the TRUTH). Tell them how the HO called you and SAID you broke it as you were the only one in the home that day.
> 
> ...


Best answer.


----------



## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

I just have one question...

What caused them to examine it the day before?




.


----------



## hotwing7 (Mar 31, 2012)

Underdog said:


> I just have one question...
> 
> What caused them to examine it the day before?
> 
> ...


They probably assumed it wasn't broke, and it is human nature, given he fact that tradespeople by and large have a bad rep for being careless, to check everything within a 200mile radius that your painter / plumber / tiler has been near.

A tough one, but arguing the toss won't get you anywhere, apologise, reiterate you have no idea how it could have happened but if there were the slightest chance it could have been you then you will absolutely fix it.

I was pulling some drops off of furniture in the lake house and they had a stack of those fold up tables. My drop got caught in one as I pulled it off, down came the table and the leg broke off. So I emailed the ho right away offering to pay for the damage, and they were super understanding saying basically it was a crap table and not to worry.

I do agree that not everyone is out to get what they can, so show them not every contractor couldn't give a toss about their possessions.


----------



## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

hotwing7 said:


> A tough one, but arguing the toss won't get you anywhere, apologise, reiterate you have no idea how it could have happened but if there were the slightest chance it could have been you then you will absolutely fix it.
> .


I totally get that but I still have this fantasy where you go through the house and randomly cover things.
Then have the home owner tell you if there is something wrong under the cover. A stain? A crack? 

I'm convinced most home owners don't even know where their air vents are.




.


----------



## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I think this is the same model

http://www.lightinguniverse.com/min...isku=6264522&linkloc=cataLogProductItemsImage

This is probably the customer shopping for the same light


----------



## Get It Painted (Sep 12, 2013)

CApainter said:


> I think this is the same model
> 
> http://www.lightinguniverse.com/min...isku=6264522&linkloc=cataLogProductItemsImage
> 
> ...


CApainter, I would love to shake your hand man! Thanks for finding the fixture.

First thing I looked at was the proper bulbs. This customer acutally has the wrong bulb in there. They have a fluorescent energy saver in there when it should be a halogen. The bulb that is in there now gets too hot and that is the cause of the crack IMO. I tried to take the bulb out, and the whole cracked area popped out in a clean break.
　
I’d like to thank everyone here for their posts as well. You guy’s don’t know how much stress this s-hit has caused me… ughhh!
As some have said, these people are looking for a freebie.


----------



## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Your welcome!

I tried to find the diffuser only, but the closet I could find was a lighting fixture by Tech Lighting for around $300.00. It looks like the same frosted diffuser without the outer clear glass. You may want to contact Tech Lighting directly.

The model number I've been referencing is Tech Lighting model 700TDFIRGP Fire Grande. There are several models in the 700 line. 

I've probably played Materials Specialist long enough today. Have a great day GIP!


----------



## Get It Painted (Sep 12, 2013)

CApainter said:


> Your welcome!
> 
> I tried to find the diffuser only, but the closet I could find was a lighting fixture by Tech Lighting for around $300.00. It looks like the same frosted diffuser without the outer clear glass. You may want to contact Tech Lighting directly.
> 
> ...


Thanks again. Your help proved to me that I am not responsible for the breakage.

Wrong bulb, creates too much heat. It's the reasonability of the HO. My hands are clean.

Thanks for helping me solving this dilemma.


----------



## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

Get It Painted said:


> As some have said, these people are looking for a freebie.


----------



## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Glad you worked through it in part to John's help. Myself I would not make an insurance claim for a few hundred bucks.


----------



## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

so what did the HO'ers have to say?


----------



## Get It Painted (Sep 12, 2013)

Workaholic said:


> Glad you worked through it in part to John's help. Myself I would not make an insurance claim for a few hundred bucks.


$476.00 plus the cost of a Lic electrician to install could end up at $800...
I talked to my ins agent, she said I have no deductible and my rates wouldn't go up.

Why pay out of pocket when I have coverage?


----------



## Get It Painted (Sep 12, 2013)

Ole34 said:


> so what did the HO'ers have to say?


don't ask... it ain't pretty. :whistling2:


----------



## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Don't hold out on us GIP. We live for this stuff! :yes:


----------



## Get It Painted (Sep 12, 2013)

slinger58 said:


> Don't hold out on us GIP. We live for this stuff! :yes:


I approach the home owner showing her she was using the wrong bulb, she immediately resorted to nit pic my work, work that looked great 2 days ago, now had stick-ups all over the wall. I got pissed and said you are trying to collect on my insurance when you know I didn’t do it and that is fraud, my voice got loud and then she threw me out of her house. I had to get a police escort to get my equipment out of her garage. 

Here is a pic I took from my truck. take note to the cop in the garage...
Stressful day, I need some beers. Ughhh


----------



## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

CApainter said:


> I think this is the same model
> 
> http://www.lightinguniverse.com/min...isku=6264522&linkloc=cataLogProductItemsImage
> 
> ...


CA. I have to say, you ARE the man! :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Thats freaking awesome, and exactly what PT is about. My hats off to you sir.


----------



## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Get It Painted said:


> $476.00 plus the cost of a Lic electrician to install could end up at $800...
> I talked to my ins agent, she said I have no deductible and my rates wouldn't go up.
> 
> Why pay out of pocket when I have coverage?


 
What kind of insurance do you have where there is no deductible?


----------



## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

Get It Painted said:


> I approach the home owner showing her she was using the wrong bulb, she immediately resorted to nit pic my work, work that looked great 2 days ago, now had stick-ups all over the wall. I got pissed and said you are trying to collect on my insurance when you know I didn&#146;t do it and that is fraud, my voice got loud and then she threw me out of her house. I had to get a police escort to get my equipment out of her garage.
> 
> Here is a pic I took from my truck. take note to the cop in the garage...
> Stressful day, I need some beers. Ughhh


just passively watching the thread unfold and couldn't help but notice how tough some can be when they got no skin in the game And I kind of took note that you have a clientele that has 8 hundred dollars of light fixtures lighting a 12 sq ft island too.
I don't know but just about any resolution short of a police escort to retrieve your equipment would have been preferable IMO. 
but I got no skin in the game either.


----------



## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Sorry you had to deal with that, GIP. My take on all this is that you stood up for yourself. Nothing wrong with that.:thumbsup:
This Bud's for you!


----------



## matt19422 (Oct 2, 2009)

How do things stand as of now?

Do you have unfinished work inside?

Do they owe you a balance?

Curious to how it weighs out financially for you...


----------



## 97audia4 (Sep 10, 2013)

i feel sorry for the HO kids if they have that kind of parent. But Your truck outside and a police car at the job site probably didnt do any favors for your business rep. but you lose some you win someI guess.


----------



## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

My hat is off to you Benny, you have my respect for doing the research and due diligence and standing up for yourself in the end.

No matter the final outcome, at least I got my 5 or 6 bucks worth of interest and entertainment from this thread; so it may have cost you but I benefited.


And kudos CA!!


----------



## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

Get It Painted said:


> CApainter, I would love to shake your hand man! Thanks for finding the fixture.
> 
> First thing I looked at was the proper bulbs. This customer acutally has the wrong bulb in there. They have a fluorescent energy saver in there when it should be a halogen. The bulb that is in there now gets too hot and that is the cause of the crack IMO. I tried to take the bulb out, and the whole cracked area popped out in a clean break.
> 
> ...


and I am not a hundred percent sure but 99 percent that you can't screw a flourescent bulb into a halogen fixture of any kind. it's two different kimd of a bulb. the flourescent bulbs are like regular bulbs and screw in. Halogens usually click in like the old halogen work lights. Unless somebody gypsy rigged that fixture, highly unlikely, she probably had a perfectly acceptable bulb in there. I have to lean towards that you were completely off base with the bulb argument. but there may be some kind of a halogen that screws in to a standard but I have never seen one.

The bulb in your post. that will no way screw into a fixture that will,accept a energy or a regular bulb.


----------



## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Get It Painted,

I'm curious, I thought CFL's were much MUCH cooler than halogen.

I still say let your ins co handle it


----------



## Get It Painted (Sep 12, 2013)

Oden said:


> and I am not a hundred percent sure but 99 percent that you can't screw a flourescent bulb into a halogen fixture of any kind. it's two different kimd of a bulb. the flourescent bulbs are like regular bulbs and screw in. Halogens usually click in like the old halogen work lights. Unless somebody gypsy rigged that fixture, highly unlikely, she probably had a perfectly acceptable bulb in there. I have to lean towards that you were completely off base with the bulb argument. but there may be some kind of a halogen that screws in to a standard but I have never seen one.
> 
> The bulb in your post. that will no way screw into a fixture that will,accept a energy or a regular bulb.


This is what is in there.


----------



## Get It Painted (Sep 12, 2013)

daArch said:


> Get It Painted,
> 
> I'm curious, I thought CFL's were much MUCH cooler than halogen.
> 
> I still say let your ins co handle it


The inner glob was extremely hot to the touch. They may of had one of the 100 watters in there. Look how the glass broke. It was a smooth clean break. To me, it was heat.
I did turned it into the ins co on Monday, adjuster called me on Tue.
I told her I have no idea when or how the light broke. I gave her all the info and pics I posted here and what CApainter gave me. I am disputing the claim.


----------



## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

that is more or less the kind of a halogen bulb in ur pic. Them two little leads on the end, they plug into a female and the female they plug into is in no way compatible with the screw in bulb that was working in the fixture that got broken. it would be like trying to put a by cycle tire on a car or a car tire on a bycicle. it won't fit. 

and I'm sure it is by design because yes a halogen is a very hot burning bulb. again the old halogen work light as a example. Very hot burning bulb.

You made a ackbasswards argument. there is no merit to it at all IMO. I would have jumped all over you too. now that don't prove you broke the glass, but trying to put the blame on the homeowner by saying they should have a bulb installed in a fixture that will not receive the bulb you say should be in there. 

and here come the police


----------



## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

Get It Painted said:


> This is what is in there.


Oooh. You got a case.
I'm inclined though to think I would have let the insurance handle it and been reall nice and finished the job.
how does that work? do your rates go up if you have multiple claims? I never quite understood that.


----------



## matt19422 (Oct 2, 2009)

Question is did you get paid for the job? 
Did you finish?
Will you get a future referral from the homeowner or the officer....


----------



## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

Do not give them a penny. Act insulted that they would try to blame it on you.


----------



## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

Geezy peezy, at this point, does it matter anymore what anyone suspects? 

You, my friend need to salvage what is left of your reputation with this client. You call them in the morning, give a heartfelt apology for your behaviour and tell them it is in the hands of your ins. company. 

PS- An apology NEVER has the word *but* in it.Good Luck.


----------



## wje (Apr 11, 2009)

IT is funny you stuck around long enough for the cops to show up. 

This thread was insane. I have never seen so much fuss over a broken light, no matter the cost.


----------



## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Get It Painted said:


> I approach the home owner showing her she was using the wrong bulb, she immediately resorted to nit pic my work, work that looked great 2 days ago, now had stick-ups all over the wall. I got pissed and said you are trying to collect on my insurance when you know I didn’t do it and that is fraud, my voice got loud and then she threw me out of her house. I had to get a police escort to get my equipment out of her garage.
> 
> Here is a pic I took from my truck. take note to the cop in the garage...
> Stressful day, I need some beers. Ughhh


I'm Still in GIP's corner on this. Why would the HO resort to nitpicking what was great 2 days ago? Deflecting maybe? If I break something I'll own up to it. If I didn't, I won't accept responsibility.
There are some nutcase HOs out there and we all get them occasionally.
But I don't lose a bit sleep about losing them as customers.


----------



## Painter-Aaron (Jan 17, 2013)

slinger58 said:


> I'm Still in GIP's corner on this. Why would the HO resort to nitpicking what was great 2 days ago? Deflecting maybe? If I break something I'll own up to it. If I didn't, I won't accept responsibility.
> There are some nutcase HOs out there and we all get them occasionally.
> But I don't lose a bit sleep about losing them as customers.


I wouldn't worry about losing those customers but its customers like that who go out of their way to tell everyone how bad you fvcked up


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

You should have taken my advice and bought that light, taken it home and hung it up in the back yard.


----------



## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Get ready for an awesome Yelp review!


----------



## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Painter-Aaron said:


> I wouldn't worry about losing those customers but its customers like that who go out of their way to tell everyone how bad you fvcked up


Maybe so, but I think the fear of one customer ruining your reputation is way over-rated. My point is if I know for sure that I'm not responsible for whatever it is they're accusing me of, I'm not going to take the hit for it.:no:


----------



## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> You should have taken my advice and bought that light, taken it home and hung it up in the back yard.


and then shot it :thumbup:

:yes:


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Yup.. After a few beers and some shattered glass this would be a bad memory.


----------



## 101 Painters (Sep 21, 2013)

last week, we had to replace a chair (purchased a new one at value city for 450 bucks). There was a very slight color variation that was not noticeable unless you knew it was there. Drops were on the furniture. can't be sure if we were responsible or not. it sucks. money out of the pocket. tried stanley steamer - that didn't work so, we replaced it. we will not get a good referral from these folks and they got a new chair. we got the old one which is still a decent chair but... cost of doing business. Move on...


----------



## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Well this whole thing turned into quite the epic train wreck.....wow.

I realize that $450 is a chunk of change, but to an insurance company it's called a "nuisance pay". Easier for them to pay it then put the time into contesting it. However, if you have a $500 deductible - it's still coming out of your pocket.

$450, raising your voice to the HO, accusing them of fraud, and then having the police show up to escort you and your materials? I'd like to say "priceless", but it could cost you more down the road. The old saying that "one happy customer will tell one more, but an unhappy one will tell ten", still stands to the test of time.

So now what? You're out either full or partial payment for the job, you have a pi55ed off customer, and you may well have damaged your reputation. Wow.

Consider the alternative:

HO: "GIP did a fine job. We noticed a cracked light fixture at the end of the job and he replaced it."

Instead, you let your emotions take over business sense. You will probably never know how much the job actually cost you.


----------



## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Wolfgang said:


> Well this whole thing turned into quite the epic train wreck.....wow.
> 
> I realize that $450 is a chunk of change, but to an insurance company it's called a "nuisance pay". Easier for them to pay it then put the time into contesting it. However, if you have a $500 deductible - it's still coming out of your pocket.
> 
> ...


exactly:notworthy:


----------



## squid (Dec 25, 2012)

Another old saying comes to mind, "penny wise and pound foolish".


----------



## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

A few examples of my past f-ups:

Doing an exterior during a drought summer. Finished the job and the HO commented that her rose bushes took quite a beating. I didn't know whether she meant from the weather or possibly from something we did. $300+ later and a Saturday afternoon of my time and she had all new rose bushes planted. Happy customer and over a 2 year period, added 6 customers to my referral base.

Another exterior. R+R glazing on window panes. Cracked two myself. Checked the rest that hadn't been done and found 4 more. Trip to Lowes, sheet of glass cut to size, replaced them all for under $60. Let the HO know and you would have thought I was the new messiah. Booked 3 neighbors exteriors from her referral that summer.

Interior. Helper spilled a can of paint on the drop. As is the usual case, some seeped onto the off-white carpet. Pulled out the little cleaner, did a fine job.....except the rest of the carpet now looked dirty. LT $200 had the entire room and hall professionally cleaned. Explained to the HO what had happened and she added the cost to the final check. Was more than appreciative and complimentive that we actually cared enough to make things right. Was a regular customer until I retired.

I could go on....5hit happens and yes, it is the cost of doing business.

How much does it cost you to acquire a potential new customer? Don't say "nothing", because they all cost something, whether it's advertising, time, etc.. They all have a monetary value.


----------



## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

I am truly surprised at the number of people who have said "fight it", "don't give an inch", "these HO's want a freebie, screw 'em"

and it is interesting to note the years of experience and the age of those who say "man up, suck it up, and move on"


----------



## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

daArch said:


> I am truly surprised at the number of people who have said "fight it", "don't give an inch", "these HO's want a freebie, screw 'em"
> 
> and it is interesting to note the years of experience and the age of those who say "man up, suck it up, and move on"


I totally agree. Its not personal, its just business. You have to have the ability and separate your emotions and realize that its not a personal attack. They could very well have just not realized that the crack was already there. 

And my earlier statement still holds true: Your reputation is worth more than $400. :yes:


----------



## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> And my earlier statement still holds true: Your reputation is worth more than $400. :yes:


I wish mine were :whistling2:


----------



## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

I cant never recall breaking a light fixture but I have broke a few customers!


----------



## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Get It Painted said:


> I approach the home owner showing her she was using the wrong bulb, she immediately resorted to nit pic my work, work that looked great 2 days ago, now had stick-ups all over the wall. I got pissed and said you are trying to collect on my insurance when you know I didn’t do it and that is fraud, my voice got loud and then she threw me out of her house. I had to get a police escort to get my equipment out of her garage.
> 
> Here is a pic I took from my truck. take note to the cop in the garage...
> Stressful day, I need some beers. Ughhh


Bud lights?:whistling2:


----------



## matt19422 (Oct 2, 2009)

I think Schmidt has the same mindset that I have on this situation. 

If the op handled things correctly, he/she would not be in this predicament, look at where it stands now:

Disgruntled homeowner.
No final payment.
Local police are involved.
Neighbors see/hear about this and now you have negative feedback.
Your insurance carrier might see you as a higher risk.
No referral

How much is all that worth? 

No one wants to be taken advantage of in this business and I understand that, but I think this backfired on you.


----------



## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

mudbone said:


> Bud lights?:whistling2:


Your friggin awesome:laughing:


----------



## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

HO tells their friends and family.

Neighbors tell their friends and family.

Police tell their friends and family. 

And that's just for starts.....all for the sum of $400. I dunno......:no:


----------



## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Wolfgang said:


> Well this whole thing turned into quite the epic train wreck.....wow.
> 
> I realize that $450 is a chunk of change, but to an insurance company it's called a "nuisance pay". Easier for them to pay it then put the time into contesting it. However, if you have a $500 deductible - it's still coming out of your pocket.
> 
> ...


You're right, but only 95% right.
Unfortunately there are people out there who _will_ spike their brakes just for insurance money.
We'll never know, but there's 2 sides to every story.


----------



## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

matt19422 said:


> I think Schmidt has the same mindset that I have on this situation.
> 
> If the op handled things correctly, he/she would not be in this predicament, look at where it stands now:
> 
> ...


Who's to say didn't handle it correctly? Look where it stands now:

Homeowner that was confronted rather than able to run roughshod.
Money is given its proper perspective.
Local police do their job/ taxes get their return.
No neighbor is going to impact his business, I don't care how much y'all believe that.
Insurance company held to its standards and Benny doesn't cow tow in fear.
Doesn't have to pretend to have respect for the homeowner or his friends who let him get away with his arrogance.

Benny has a story where he stands up for honor.

How much is all that worth? 

Priceless



.


----------



## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

A good camera and a good contract. Unfortunately it's the CYA way of doing business anymore.


----------



## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Ah well, if we all agreed on every topic this forum would be awfully boring.:thumbup:


----------



## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

I can kind of agree with both sides, but only because I'm wishy washy.


_I grabbed my coat and I grabbed my hat and I ran into the street_
_I saw a man that was choking there, I guess he couldn't breath_
_Said to myself this is very strange, *I'm glad it wasn't me*._ ~ A. Cooper- Ballad of Dwight Fry


----------



## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

makes you feel any better I had to replace a 390 dollar carpet last week, we washed the house and they said we got bleach on their carpet, however upon further investigation I discovered that it was not likely we actually got the bleach inside, but somebody brought in a item on the deck that had bleach remaining on it and it dripped on to the carpet. NO questions I replaced it.

This is a good topic, a lot to learn from the veterans like Wolf and Paul IMO don't let it get to you it just part of doing business and move on.


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

daArch said:


> I am truly surprised at the number of people who have said "fight it", "don't give an inch", "these HO's want a freebie, screw 'em"
> 
> and it is interesting to note the years of experience and the age of those who say "man up, suck it up, and move on"


I think most of us have had things happen in the past and learned the hard way about the best way to deal with these things. Yes some people are out for a freebie, but that may not be the case. 

Its all in how you handle things like this, because they will come up no matter how careful you are. Nothing good comes from fighting with a client. EVER!


----------



## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Here is my most epic f-up and how I handled it: A few years ago we did a large complete interior repaint in two parts, the upstairs first, then after a one month wait for the holidays, the basement in January.

While painting the basement we noticed a small pile of stuff covered with moving blankets on the floor in the middle of a room. Not thinking much of it, we continued to work around it. 

Everything was going fine until I stepped off a ladder onto the outer edge of the moving blanket and heard a crack. It turned out to be where they put their beveled, round etched glass Mayan calendar. I recognized it immediately because they told me all about it during the bid. How it was there favorite piece of signed and numbered art they bought during their honeymoon at Niagara Falls.

My first though was, why was it there? It was hung on the wall upstairs that we painted a month ago. They took it down, they put it on the floor and covered it. They knew we were coming back to paint the basement. They never warned me about it. How could it possibly be my fault?


Telling them was the hardest part. She told me afterword, since I was so remorseful, she initially thought I accidentally killed their small dog.

The remedy: we googled it, found the art shop where they purchased it. Contacted the artist. Luckily he still had a template and agreed to produce another one for them. The cost $1600. They were grateful and referrals ensued.


----------



## Get It Painted (Sep 12, 2013)

Underdog said:


> Who's to say didn't handle it correctly? Look where it stands now:
> 
> Homeowner that was confronted rather than able to run roughshod.
> Money is given its proper perspective.
> ...


Pride
Integrity
Dignity
Self Respect
Honor
Law abiding
Stomping out fraud
Hero to the insurance company for proving the customers are frauds. 

Like a soldier who comes home from war
Fought for his country
A hero
Pride
Integrity
Dignity
Self Respect
Honor
Wounded
Mentally disturbed


----------



## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

daArch said:


> I am truly surprised at the number of people who have said "fight it", "don't give an inch", "these HO's want a freebie, screw 'em"
> 
> and it is interesting to note the years of experience and the age of those who say "man up, suck it up, and move on"


lol, you're "surprised" that nobody thinks exactly as you do?
How ever do you get through your day?

Running a business in fear of getting a negative review from ONE difficult client is no way to run a business at all.

Either this guy actually broke the light, or the client is evil...or mistaken.

Buncha sissies acting like the reality of having to get dirty every now and again will topple your business.

LOL...painting companies are like pizza joints, there are millions in one area and they're all mediocre.


----------



## Get It Painted (Sep 12, 2013)

daArch said:


> I am truly surprised at the number of people who have said "fight it", "don't give an inch", "these HO's want a freebie, screw 'em"
> 
> and it is interesting to note the years of experience and the age of those who say "man up, suck it up, and move on"


I didn't break their light, I know that I did not break their light and I have proved that I did not break their light. The light bulb was the wrong type of bulb which caused too much heat.
Under protest, I turned a claim into my ins co on Monday sept 16th. and after living with the fact that I knowingly did not do it, for several days, that is when things went south. I only turned it in to the ins co because I didn't want them to deduct from the balance of the job. I could not stomach filing a claim when I did not do it. That is fraud.

Here is a question. If your neighbor told you that there is a dent in their car, and then they tell you that YOU DID IT and want you to turn it into your ins, what would you do or say if you know you didn‘t do it? 
That is how black & white the matter with my customer was.


----------



## matt19422 (Oct 2, 2009)

WisePainter said:


> lol, you're "surprised" that nobody thinks exactly as you do?
> How ever do you get through your day?
> 
> Running a business in fear of getting a negative review from ONE difficult client is no way to run a business at all.
> ...


*The op stated from the very start that they weren't sure if they bumped it while covering it in the first place....*

_The customer has me second guessing myself. I know I didn't whack it. but, there may have been a chance that the two glasses connected lightly while covering and uncovering with plastic. I am really not sure. _

So rationally who is 100% sure?


----------



## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Get It Painted said:


> Here is a question. If your neighbor told you that there is a dent in their car, and then they tell you that YOU DID IT and want you to turn it into your ins, what would you do or say if you know you didn‘t do it?
> That is how black & white the matter with my customer was.


Okay, let's make this analogy a bit more applicable to this situation. Suppose your neighbor turned their car over to you for detailing and upon getting it back they inform you there is a small dent or scratch they'd never noticed before. Now it may have been there before you got the car, or perhaps it did happen while you were working on it. Regardless, _from the customer's perspective_, who do you think they would consider responsible?

Whether something is "black & white" is usually a matter of where you are standing when viewing.


----------



## Get It Painted (Sep 12, 2013)

matt19422 said:


> *The op stated from the very start that they weren't sure if they bumped it while covering it in the first place....*
> 
> _The customer has me second guessing myself. I know I didn't whack it. but, there may have been a chance that the two glasses connected lightly while covering and uncovering with plastic. I am really not sure. _
> 
> So rationally who is 100% sure?


*I honestly didn't bang into the light in any way.* 
When someone accuses you of something, there is a certain about of guilt that they place on you. I also proved that the bulb was the wrong bulb. 
Judging from the smooth shape of the break, it doesn't look like a whack break, it looks like a heat break. 

I showed this photo to my ins agent, she thought the same as I. She said that people pull this crap all the time to collect on an ins claim.

Proper bulb is below. (1)60w T4 G9 120v Halogen only 1 1/4 inches in length.


----------



## Get It Painted (Sep 12, 2013)

RH said:


> Okay, let's make this analogy a bit more applicable to this situation. Suppose your neighbor turned their car over to you for detailing and upon getting it back they inform you there is a small dent or scratch they'd never noticed before. Now it may have been there before you got the car, or perhaps it did happen while you were working on it. Regardless, _from the customer's perspective_, who do you think they would consider responsible?
> 
> Whether something is "black & white" is usually a matter of where you are standing when viewing.


Customer lied and told me the lamp came shipped with the bulb that is in the light. Through investigation, the light comes shipped with (1)60w T4 G9 120v Halogen

Customers lied and I proved that. 
Look at the photo of the breakage. Have you ever seen a break that was that smooth from a whack? I think that is impossible. It looks almost like it melted.


----------



## Get It Painted (Sep 12, 2013)

RH said:


> Okay, let's make this analogy a bit more applicable to this situation. Suppose your neighbor turned their car over to you for detailing and upon getting it back they inform you there is a small dent or scratch they'd never noticed before. Now it may have been there before you got the car, or perhaps it did happen while you were working on it. Regardless, _from the customer's perspective_, who do you think they would consider responsible?
> 
> Whether something is "black & white" is usually a matter of where you are standing when viewing.


I was painting the ceiling not installing the light or cleaning it.


----------



## squid (Dec 25, 2012)

WisePainter said:


> lol, you're "surprised" that nobody thinks exactly as you do?
> How ever do you get through your day?
> 
> Running a business in fear of getting a negative review from ONE difficult client is no way to run a business at all.
> ...


 Do you run a business young man.


----------



## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

Get It Painted said:


> Customer lied and told me the lamp came shipped with the bulb that is in the light. Through investigation, the light comes shipped with (1)60w T4 G9 120v Halogen
> 
> Customers lied and I proved that.
> Look at the photo of the breakage. Have you ever seen a break that was that smooth from a whack? I think that is impossible. It looks almost like it melted.


After looking closely at the breakage, I have to agree with you. The shape of the break looks to me that heat caused the break, not an accidental bumping. By the way, I respect the way you have stood up for yourself, notwithstanding the shouting match you had with this customer. The responses to your initial post show me yet again that often there isn't only one "right way" to tackle a problem. Some of have said to just eat the money and give in to the customer with a professional attitude. Others have said to stand your ground. You did what you felt was best...good for you.


----------



## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

squid said:


> Do you run a business young man.


You'll find the answer you seek amongst the 2-3 posts I've submitted to PT over the past 5 years.


----------



## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

WisePainter said:


> You'll find the answer you seek amongst the 2-3 posts I've submitted to PT over the past 5 years.


I dunno... I checked those posts out and I'm *still* not sure. :whistling2:


----------



## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

Get It Painted said:


> Customer lied and told me the lamp came shipped with the bulb that is in the light. Through investigation, the light comes shipped with (1)60w T4 G9 120v Halogen
> 
> Customers lied and I proved that.
> Look at the photo of the breakage. Have you ever seen a break that was that smooth from a whack? I think that is impossible. It looks almost like it melted.


Perry Mason!!

Welcome to Paint Talk...a huge thing coming from me.


----------



## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

RH said:


> I dunno... I checked those posts out and I'm *still* not sure. :whistling2:


you weren't supposed to call my bluff...


----------



## squid (Dec 25, 2012)

WisePainter said:


> You'll find the answer you seek amongst the 2-3 posts I've submitted to PT over the past 5 years.


 So I answered my own question. To the OP, I agree it may be a heat related break. I honestly probably would have handled just like you,be it right or wrong- too proud to let it go. I hope they square up with you.


----------



## Tonyg (Dec 9, 2007)

IMO

I dunno, in all the drama, sounds like both sides overreacted and missed an opportunity. 

1. I've broken glass and domes (although not a customers)and a low pressure/force bump could have broken it, albeit it may have had a crack or flaw in it before. If it does not shatter it could leave a smooth simple break like you describe.

2. I don't think the HO is evil or scheming fraud for a new $400 lamp - they did spend $800 on 2 lights and I'm assuming they may not have been that cheap or hurting for money since they hired a professional painter.

3. Those CFL bulbs are supposed to be the coolest, most energy efficient bulb outside of the LED. I've always known the halogen bulbs to be much hotter. I actually burned a HO's hardwood floor when my halogen flood tipped over. I threw that away and bought a rechargeable 'cooler' flood with CFL's. (of course it's garbage so I bough another halogen  )

http://www.megavolt.co.il/Tips_and_info/types_of_bulbs.html


----------



## Painter-Aaron (Jan 17, 2013)

Maybe you should have bought the light brought it to their house and bumped it showing what how it would have cracked if you had actually bumped it.. Just make sure it doesn't break exactly to what the first one looked like. Otherwise you will be buying another for them.


----------



## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

How does that bulb fit in the current light socket base?


----------



## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Tonyg said:


> IMO
> I Those CFL bulbs are supposed to be the coolest, most energy efficient bulb outside of the LED. I've always known the halogen bulbs to be much hotter. I actually burned a HO's hardwood floor when my halogen flood tipped over. I threw that away and bought a rechargeable 'cooler' flood with CFL's. (of course it's garbage so I bough another halogen  )
> 
> http://www.megavolt.co.il/Tips_and_info/types_of_bulbs.html


Good point. I use the 20w halogen bulbs in my landscape lighting and although those bulbs are small they get hot as hell (well, almost).



Paradigmzz said:


> How does that bulb fit in the current light socket base?


I was wondering the same thing. Unless they bought an adapter I don't see how the two types of bulbs could be interchangeable.

Regardless, these are all pretty much irrelevant points now since it's been dealt with. Let the chips fall where they may.


----------



## Get It Painted (Sep 12, 2013)

Paradigmzz said:


> How does that bulb fit in the current light socket base?


I uploaded the light bulb in post #65. These bulbs are at home depot and come in 60 & 100 what bulbs. People like light in their kitchens, they may have been using the 100 watt bulbs. 

Here it is again. I took one bulb out of the other light, and in took me about 15 mins to get back in. They had two kitchen lights. Why would a manufacture make a lamp that is so hard to change bulbs?

The light http://www.lightinguniverse.com/min...isku=6264522&linkloc=cataLogProductItemsImage


----------



## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

Steve Richards said:


> I can kind of agree with both sides, but only because I'm wishy washy.


Loved this one liner.

This has been an excellent thread, classic subject, great takes on it.

I have to admit I have vacillated on my opinion. 

Here's another great one liner:



straight_lines said:


> Nothing good comes from fighting with a client. EVER!


----------



## Get It Painted (Sep 12, 2013)

RH said:


> Good point. *I use the 20w halogen bulbs in my landscape lighting and although those bulbs are small they get hot as hell (well, almost).*
> 
> I was wondering the same thing. Unless they bought an adapter I don't see how the two types of bulbs could be interchangeable.
> 
> Regardless, these are all pretty much irrelevant points now since it's been dealt with. Let the chips fall where they may.


Question is, does a small halogen bulb create as much heat or more than a Fluorescent Light Bulb, 5 times it size, enclosed in a light fixture? The temperature of the glass is what counts. 

I assure you, when I touched the globe, it was hot enough to cook an egg on it.


----------



## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

A negative yelp, or Google review could easily be more expensive than $400. Plus the neighborhood blog, Facebook and whatever else. I would be thinking about damage control.


----------



## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

Get It Painted said:


> I approach the home owner showing her she was using the wrong bulb, she immediately resorted to nit pic my work, work that looked great 2 days ago, now had stick-ups all over the wall. I got pissed and said you are trying to collect on my insurance when you know I didn’t do it and that is fraud, my voice got loud and then she threw me out of her house. I had to get a police escort to get my equipment out of her garage.
> 
> Here is a pic I took from my truck. take note to the cop in the garage...
> Stressful day, I need some beers. Ughhh


Pshaw.
You ain't contracting right if you haven't had the law involved at least once during your career.
Been there, didn't miss a beat...my business didn't appear on national TV, and not one stranger approached asking me if I was "that guy" they saw on CNN the night before.

It's painting people...not brain surgery.


----------



## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> A negative yelp, or Google review could easily be more expensive than $400. Plus the neighborhood blog, Facebook and whatever else. I would be thinking about damage control.


 
I do believe it is just a weee bit late for that


----------



## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

customer or not I don't think it is Kool to get 'loud' with a woman and most specially not in their own home. I',m not feelin that a little bit.


----------



## Get It Painted (Sep 12, 2013)

Oden said:


> customer or not I don't think it is Kool to get 'loud' with a woman and most specially not in their own home. I',m not feelin that a little bit.


I have no respect for anyone male/female that tries to commit fraud and then tries to keep my painting tools and a brand new 5' Werner fiberglass ladder.


----------



## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

I wonder how many in BUSINESS have learned an important lesson about BUSINESS, and it's not the same lesson one might learn from the military:

Discretion is the better part of valor.

It took me a number of years to be able to understand when, even if I REALLY *REALLY* think I am right, the opposing party also feels the smae about their position. The major difference between them and I is that I am trying to earn a living from having a decent reputation - and as a customer they have no such motivation.

Oh believe me, I have f-ed up numerous times on my stubbornness to fight for what I believe is truth, justice, and the American way, unfortunately I have found that it don't pay the bills. I'd love to be RICH and be able to fight the petty wrongs I have faced, but I am not Bruce Wayne who's family fortune can afford me the luxury of fighting over $400. 

Besides, with an insurance policy that has no deductible, what the frog is being fought for here? The salvation of a multi-gazillion dollar industry over $400 ?

as I said, discretion is the better part of valor.


----------



## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

Oden said:


> customer or not I don't think it is Kool to get 'loud' with a woman and most specially not in their own home. I',m not feelin that a little bit.


Lol, Captain Chivalry spouting from the armchair...

This is a case of an over bloated wealthy entitled woman stepping up to a contractor as if her money means any sort of actual power.

Ah the joys of serving the 1% plutarchy during a massive economic wipeout.

Who's side are you on?


----------



## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

Get It Painted said:


> I have no respect for anyone male/female that tries to commit fraud and then tries to keep my painting tools and a brand new 5' Werner fiberglass ladder.


You did the right thing.


----------



## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

chrisn said:


> I do believe it is just a weee bit late for that


It's never too late for damage control.


----------



## Get It Painted (Sep 12, 2013)

daArch said:


> I wonder how many in BUSINESS have learned an important lesson about BUSINESS, and it's not the same lesson one might learn from the military:
> 
> Discretion is the better part of valor.
> 
> ...


I’m pretty sure an insurance company isn’t going to pay unless you say you did it. 

Adjuster asked these questions

What day did the light get broken?
*I don’t know, the customer said the crack wasn’t there a few days before I painted the ceiling.

What time did the light get broken?
*I don’t know

Did you bang into it or hit it?
*No, not that I know of, I was pretty careful 

How did the light get broken?
*I don’t no

Did you remove the light and re install it?
*No, I covered it with plastic

Did you notice a crack in it before you painted the ceiling?
*No

Was any one home?
*No

Did you have anyone working with you?
*No

Do you have any idea how the light could have cracked?
*I think the light was not the proper wattage bulb and that is why the light cracked. I have a photo of the fixture, I will email it to you.


----------



## Get It Painted (Sep 12, 2013)

WisePainter said:


> Lol, Captain Chivalry spouting from the armchair...
> 
> *This is a case of an over bloated wealthy entitled woman stepping up to a contractor as if her money means any sort of actual power.*
> 
> ...


Husband was a Cardiovascular Doctor. Vaction home, the whole 9 yards...


----------



## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Get It Painted said:


> I’m pretty sure an insurance company isn’t going to pay unless you say you did it.
> 
> Adjuster asked these questions
> 
> ...


Believe me I UNDERSTAND your position. I EMPATHIZE with your dilemma. And I support(ed) your fight.

BUT then you said you have an insurance policy with NO DEDUCTIBLE.

THAT'S when I (and a few others) recommended that YOU do not fight this. That's when we reralized you were LUCKY to be in a position to remove yourself from the conflict and allow your ins co to fight it. 

BUT you CHOSE to embroil yourself in what we saw to be an unnecessary fight - a fight that you would never come out of winning on a level that is much more valuable than $400.

I am sure most of us, who think you got too emotionally involved, believe that in all likelihood you did NOT break the lamp. But that is NOT the point. 

You could have have come away from this without any damage - either to your wallet or your reputation. But we believe you made a serious tactical error.

I sincerely hope that in six months time, you can reflect on all this and understand what we are saying.

I DO wish you the best.

I am here NOT to condemn you, but to help you learn from the mistakes I have made in the past.


----------



## Carl (Jun 18, 2011)

WisePainter said:


> lol, you're "surprised" that nobody thinks exactly as you do?
> How ever do you get through your day?
> 
> Running a business in fear of getting a negative review from ONE difficult client is no way to run a business at all.
> ...


Well here is a perfect example of a guy who just totally misses the point.


----------



## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

WisePainter said:


> Lol, Captain Chivalry spouting from the armchair... This is a case of an over bloated wealthy entitled woman stepping up to a contractor as if her money means any sort of actual power. Ah the joys of serving the 1% plutarchy during a massive economic wipeout. Who's side are you on?


I'm not a owner. I work for a owner. A one oer center fo sho. and when I was comin up someone told me and it still holds true he said, 'you can't f--k em if you ain't workin for em'

now this guy is trying to build a business and he's I would think trying to cater to a certain clientele and the cops are pulling up in a patrol car escorting him in and out like an ex with a restraining order with ten minutes to get his things! LOL


----------



## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

straight_lines said:


> I think most of us have had things happen in the past and learned the hard way about the best way to deal with these things. Yes some people are out for a freebie, but that may not be the case.
> 
> Its all in how you handle things like this, because they will come up no matter how careful you are. Nothing good comes from fighting with a client. EVER!


I agree. He needs to lighten up!:whistling2:


----------



## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Just for the record, I'm still in your corner GIP. We lost Underdog but we picked up Wise, so I think we're good. I know it doesn't seem like I'm helping much, but I'm picking my spots.:jester::thumbsup:


----------



## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

Get It Painted said:


> I have no respect for anyone male/female that tries to commit fraud and then tries to keep my painting tools and a brand new 5' Werner fiberglass ladder.


This thread has been very en"lightening." So much for the lame pun. I was just thinking that, PERHAPS, whatever it was that you used to cover said light caused just enough increase in heat/temperature for that inner globe to break. If the HO was using the wrong bulb type to begin with, covering the entire light might have been the final straw.


----------



## Get It Painted (Sep 12, 2013)

SemiproJohn said:


> This thread has been very en"lightening." So much for the lame pun. I was just thinking that, PERHAPS, whatever it was that you used to cover said light caused just enough increase in heat/temperature for that inner globe to break. If the HO was using the wrong bulb type to begin with, covering the entire light might have been the final straw.


I learned many moons ago, "never turn lights on while covered with plastic. It could melt on the light. Did that before.

This is the work area, the day I painted. kitchen lights were out all day. I have a 1000 watt work light I use.


----------



## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

daArch said:


> It took me a number of years to be able to understand when, even if I REALLY *REALLY* think I am right, the opposing party also feels the same about their position.
> .


My wife and I have had this discussion innumerable times.
I've come to the conclusion that this is not always the case.
Many many people cannot admit when they're wrong or that they've lied.

My test is if they can answer questions and deal with issues.


.


----------



## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

This thread is stupid.


----------



## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Bender said:


> This thread is stupid.


 Stop that.


----------



## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

I assumed as much. :thumbup:


----------



## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

SemiproJohn said:


> I assumed as much. :thumbup:


Never assume.


----------



## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

Bender said:


> This thread is stupid.


 
The only stupid thread is the one that was never posted.


----------



## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Underdog said:


> My wife and I have had this discussion innumerable times.
> I've come to the conclusion that this is not always the case.
> Many many people cannot admit when they're wrong or that they've lied.
> 
> ...


 and as of late, I've had similar discussions with my brother. He feels that our present legal adversaries are scum bags, whereas I have the opinion that they are honorable people who are simply mistaken, who feel they are in the right, and will fight just as hard as we will.

I tend to give people credit for being honorable (even while being wrong) until they prove to be scum bags. 

I'm not saying I am correct, but it helps me understand and focus on the real battle over facts instead of getting hung up on motivation


----------



## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

I believe you that you didn't break the light, but it really doesn't matter anymore. Even though you reported it to the ins. company, you still had to try to prove that your clients were trying to screw you. To what end? Just so you could say you were right? Grow up already. Just because people are rich doesn't mean they are trying to get one over on the lowly painter. If we didn't have these people willing to let us into their homes, where would we be? The fact that you won't address your rude behaviour to your client makes me believe that you deserve everything you've got coming to you when she starts bad-mouthing you to all of her neighbors, family and friends. 

So GIP, I'm posting this in your thread so you are sure to see it.
Unlike some, I value my reputation over piddly bullcrap. I would never get into an argument with a client.And if a low life contractor dared raise their voice at me in my home, you'd better believe that person would have been charged with assault and I would have been the one calling the cops. Sometimes we have to suck it up and behave as grown-ups even if we know we're right.

But who cares, right? 'Cuz you didn't break anything.


----------



## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Underdog said:


> The only stupid thread is the one that was never posted.


And stop that.


----------



## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

Chit, If I ever needed a free paint job in Fauxlynn area, I would give her a call. when It comes time to pay the final bill I would just blame something on her that I know my kids did and I would get myself a free paint job. All Mrs ethical and chit... Come on

Pat


----------



## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

PatsPainting said:


> Chit, If I ever needed a free paint job in Fauxlynn area, I would give her a call. when It comes time to pay the final bill I would just blame something on her that I know my kids did and I would get myself a free paint job. All Mrs ethical and chit... Come on
> 
> Pat[/QUOT
> 
> ...


----------



## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

fauxlynn said:


> I believe you that you didn't break the light, but it really doesn't matter anymore. Even though you reported it to the ins. company, you still had to try to prove that your clients were trying to screw you. To what end? Just so you could say you were right? Grow up already. Just because people are rich doesn't mean they are trying to get one over on the lowly painter. If we didn't have these people willing to let us into their homes, where would we be? The fact that you won't address your rude behaviour to your client makes me believe that you deserve everything you've got coming to you when she starts bad-mouthing you to all of her neighbors, family and friends.
> 
> So GIP, I'm posting this in your thread so you are sure to see it.
> Unlike some, I value my reputation over piddly bullcrap. I would never get into an argument with a client.And if a low life contractor dared raise their voice at me in my home, you'd better believe that person would have been charged with assault and I would have been the one calling the cops. Sometimes we have to suck it up and behave as grown-ups even if we know we're right.
> ...


Wow. Kinda cranked up there. 
At some point in this discussion the question has to be; just how much will you take, how far will you bend over, how subservient will you be in the quest for the almighty dollar.


----------



## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

slinger58 said:


> And stop that.


Being clever? Or standing up for an OP that brought up a genuinely interesting topic?

You have to admit a light fixture inside a light fixture that gets cracked is remarkable.


----------



## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

fauxlynn said:


> So you think it is ok to yell at a homeowner? Is that what you're saying?


Absolutely if they are purposely trying to get one over on me. 

Pat


----------



## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Underdog said:


> Being clever? Or standing up for an OP that brought up a genuinely interesting topic?
> 
> You have to admit a light fixture inside a light fixture that gets cracked is remarkable.


That was kind of a glancing shot at Bender, not you.:thumbsup:
This thread is proving to be quite remarkable.:yes:


----------



## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

slinger58 said:


> Wow. Kinda cranked up there.
> At some point in this discussion the question has to be; just how much will you take, how far will you bend over, how subservient will you be in the quest for the almighty dollar.


Ever hear of a company settling out of court? This is kinda like that. Sometimes it's just cheaper to settle than fight something all the way. Lawyers love crap like this, and they are the only ones that "win".


----------



## Get It Painted (Sep 12, 2013)

fauxlynn said:


> I believe you that you didn't break the light, but it really doesn't matter anymore. Even though you reported it to the ins. company, you still had to try to prove that your clients were trying to screw you. To what end? Just so you could say you were right? Grow up already. Just because people are rich doesn't mean they are trying to get one over on the lowly painter. If we didn't have these people willing to let us into their homes, where would we be? The fact that you won't address your rude behaviour to your client makes me believe that you deserve everything you've got coming to you when she starts bad-mouthing you to all of her neighbors, family and friends.
> 
> So GIP, I'm posting this in your thread so you are sure to see it.
> Unlike some, I value my reputation over piddly bullcrap. I would never get into an argument with a client.*And if a low life contractor dared raise their voice at me in my home, you'd better believe that person would have been charged with assault and I would have been the one calling the cops*. Sometimes we have to suck it up and behave as grown-ups even if we know we're right.
> ...


*as·sault*

[uh-sawlt] Show IPA 
noun 1. a sudden, violent attack; onslaught: an assault on tradition. 

2. Law. an unlawful physical attack upon another; an attempt or offer to do violence to another, with or without battery, as by holding a stone or club in a threatening manner. 

3. Military . the stage of close combat in an attack. 

4. rape1 .


----------



## Get It Painted (Sep 12, 2013)

fauxlynn said:


> So GIP, I'm posting this in your thread so you are sure to see it.
> Unlike some, I value my reputation over piddly bullcrap. I would never get into an argument with a client.And if a low life contractor dared raise their voice at me in my home, you'd better believe that person would have been charged with assault and I would have been the one calling the cops. Sometimes we have to suck it up and behave as grown-ups even if we know we're right.
> 
> But who cares, right? 'Cuz you didn't break anything.


I am so hurt...


----------



## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Get It Painted said:


> *as·sault*
> 
> [uh-sawlt] Show IPA
> noun 1. a sudden, violent attack; onslaught: an assault on tradition.
> ...


In Illinois, the base charge of assult....

Sec. 12-1. Assault. (a) A person commits an assault when, without lawful authority, he engages in conduct which places another in reasonable apprehension of receiving a battery.

(b) Sentence. Assault is a Class C misdemeanor.

(c) In addition to any other sentence that may be imposed, a court shall order any person convicted of assault to perform community service for not less than 30 and not more than 120 hours, if community service is available in the jurisdiction and is funded and approved by the county board of the county where the offense was committed. In addition, whenever any person is placed on supervision for an alleged offense under this Section, the supervision shall be conditioned upon the performance of the community service.


----------



## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Now I'm not in any way implying that you physically threatened her. Just pointing out that a person can "assault" someone using only words.


----------



## squid (Dec 25, 2012)

WisePainter said:


> You did the right thing.


 It's easy to be the boss when your not the (or a ) boss.


----------



## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

slinger58 said:


> Wow. Kinda cranked up there.
> At some point in this discussion the question has to be; just how much will you take, how far will you bend over, how subservient will you be in the quest for the almighty dollar.


Slinger, I never gave my opinion on whether or not he should pay for the light. I did not comment until the OP said he yelled at his customer after he talked to his ins. I could care less if he pays for the fixture or not. My comments were directed at his rude behaviour.It is not OK to yell at a client. Period.

And yes, it got cranked up after OP posted his smart a$$ comment in my thread. I stand by what I said, as everyone else has the right to stand by their beliefs.


----------



## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

It appears to me that this discussion is heading toward being impassioned.

it's a great subject as there are many different viewpoints, all that have value.

Let's keep the passion a little more in check and not allow this to cross any lines of respect.


----------



## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Ever hear of a company settling out of court? This is kinda like that. Sometimes it's just cheaper to settle than fight something all the way. Lawyers love crap like this, and they are the only ones that "win".


I understand that concept of putting a price on principle. The big corporations do it every day. It's certainly cheaper in the short run to settle vs. fighting in court. In the long run, we all get to pay in the form of higher cost of goods and services and/or insurance premiums. The whole premise of this strategy is based on the quest of the almighty dollar TODAY. What happens tomorrow?
Today, every phone book in this country has the back cover ad bought and paid for by a lawyer who "settles" with insurance companies.
Sorry about the rant, Paul. Probably belongs in the PZ.


----------



## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

daArch said:


> It appears to me that this discussion is heading toward being impassioned.
> 
> it's a great subject as there are many different viewpoints, all that have value.
> 
> Let's keep the passion a little more in check and not allow this to cross any lines of respect.


Good call Bill. It would be a shame to have to close a good thread in the morning, only to find it turned overnight.


----------



## Get It Painted (Sep 12, 2013)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Now I'm not in any way implying that you physically threatened her. Just pointing out that a person can "assault" someone using only words.


Thanks but that wasn't the case at all. Lynn was not there, its not a good idea to assume as she did. This whole matter has been exaggerated.

If your definition is accurate, the customer was assaulting me.


----------



## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

I had a lady customer THROW my wallpaper table out her door once !!!

Was that assault and battery on my table  :thumbup: :whistling2:

and no, I do NOT remember what the "difference of opinion" was about. Obviously we all blew something out of proportion


----------



## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

daArch said:


> I had a lady customer THROW my wallpaper table out her door once !!!
> 
> Was that assault and battery on my table  :thumbup: :whistling2:
> 
> and no, I do NOT remember what the "difference of opinion" was about. Obviously we all blew something out of proportion


Yes, yes it was!

Hey, I got charged with assault once for standing on my ex-best friends porch. It doesn't take much.


----------



## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

slinger58 said:


> I understand that concept of putting a price on principle. The big corporations do it every day. It's certainly cheaper in the short run to settle vs. fighting in court. In the long run, we all get to pay in the form of higher cost of goods and services and/or insurance premiums. The whole premise of this strategy is based on the quest of the almighty dollar TODAY. What happens tomorrow?
> Today, every phone book in this country has the back cover ad bought and paid for by a lawyer who "settles" with insurance companies.
> Sorry about the rant, Paul. Probably belongs in the PZ.


You have a great point, and I get where you are coming from. But let me tell you a little story to help convey were _I'm_ coming from. 

My mother had a cleaning business for many years. At one point she had up to 25 lady's working for her. Well one customer was a lawyer, and accused one of my moms employees of stealing a $5,000 ring. This was a longstanding employee that my mom trusted completely, so she fought it all the way. 

Over the course of five years, she spent about $10,000 in legal fees, then lost the case in court, and ended up paying for the ring anyway. In hindsight you can see that it was cheaper to pay in the beginning. But my mom just got to emotionally attached to make a prudent financial decision.


----------



## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

fauxlynn said:


> Slinger, I never gave my opinion on whether or not he should pay for the light. I did not comment until the OP said he yelled at his customer after he talked to his ins. I could care less if he pays for the fixture or not. My comments were directed at his rude behaviour.It is not OK to yell at a client. Period.
> 
> And yes, it got cranked up after OP posted his smart a$$ comment in my thread. I stand by what I said, as everyone else has the right to stand by their beliefs.


No offense intended to you, fauxlynn. I think GIP's post in your thread was meant in jest.
Carry on! :thumbup:


----------



## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> You have a great point, and I get where you are coming from. But let me tell you a little story to help convey were _I'm_ coming from.
> 
> My mother had a cleaning business for many years. At one point she had up to 25 lady's working for her. Well one customer was a lawyer, and accused one of my moms employees of stealing a $5,000 ring. This was a longstanding employee that my mom trusted completely, so she fought it all the way.
> 
> Over the course of five years, she spent about $10,000 in legal fees, then lost the case in court, and ended up paying for the ring anyway. In hindsight you can see that it was cheaper to pay in the beginning. But my mom just got to emotionally attached to make a prudent financial decision.


Please give us more details about the ring, I'm pretty sure that CA Painter can still find it and see if it was really worth $5,000.


----------



## Get It Painted (Sep 12, 2013)

Get It Painted said:


> I approach the home owner showing her she was using the wrong bulb, she immediately resorted to nit pic my work, work that looked great 2 days ago, now had stick-ups all over the wall. I got pissed and said you are trying to collect on my insurance when you know I didn’t do it and that is fraud, *my voice got loud and then she threw me out of her house.* I had to get a police escort to get my equipment out of her garage.
> 
> Here is a pic I took from my truck. take note to the cop in the garage...
> Stressful day, I need some beers. Ughhh


*Lynn,* Loud, and yelling are two different words. I was in an excitable situation. I am sure you have been there more than once in your life. Maybe?


----------



## Get It Painted (Sep 12, 2013)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> You have a great point, and I get where you are coming from. But let me tell you a little story to help convey were _I'm_ coming from.
> 
> My mother had a cleaning business for many years. At one point she had up to 25 lady's working for her. Well one customer was a lawyer, and accused one of my moms employees of stealing a $5,000 ring. This was a longstanding employee that my mom trusted completely, so she fought it all the way.
> 
> Over the course of five years, she spent about $10,000 in legal fees, then lost the case in court, and ended up paying for the ring anyway. In hindsight you can see that it was cheaper to pay in the beginning. But my mom just got to emotionally attached to make a prudent financial decision.


Schmidt, I am not fighting, I am out of there... I had another room to do, but they will have to get someone else. I am paid for the work i did. I told her "lets call it even"!


----------



## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

daArch said:


> I had a lady customer THROW my wallpaper table out her door once !!!
> 
> Was that assault and battery on my table  :thumbup: :whistling2:
> 
> and no, I do NOT remember what the "difference of opinion" was about. Obviously we all blew something out of proportion


 
So you have had some nutcase customers!:thumbup:


----------



## Get It Painted (Sep 12, 2013)

fauxlynn said:


> Slinger, I never gave my opinion on whether or not he should pay for the light. I did not comment until the *OP said he yelled at his customer after he talked to his ins.* I could care less if he pays for the fixture or not. My comments were directed at his rude behaviour.It is not OK to yell at a client. Period.
> 
> And yes, it got cranked up after OP posted his smart a$$ comment in my thread. I stand by what I said, as everyone else has the right to stand by their beliefs.


I did not say I yelled. It takes two to argue. Why would you side with the customer when you were not there?


----------



## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Get It Painted said:


> Schmidt, I am not fighting, I am out of there... I had another room to do, but they will have to get someone else. I am paid for the work i did. I told her "lets call it even"!


Didn't think you were, was just debating with slinger. All's good on my end. 

But either way, if I didnt say it already, I'm sorry this happened to you. I wish you had handled it differently, but none of us were there, and only you could make he call. Learn from this, move on, and don't let it ruin your outlook on painting.


----------



## cdaniels (Oct 20, 2012)

"All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone." Blaise Pascal


----------



## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

So......


----------



## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

"The human mind has an infinite capacity for justification." a cabinet maker that I know


----------



## Brian C (Oct 8, 2011)

This has been an excellent thread. I'm sure we can all relate to the issue of a light fitting getting accidentally broken and an angry homeowner blaming you. I agree that raising your voice at the homeowner is the wrong way to handle the problem.


----------



## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

slinger58 said:


> Just for the record, I'm still in your corner GIP. We lost Underdog but we picked up Wise, so I think we're good. I know it doesn't seem like I'm helping much, but I'm picking my spots.:jester::thumbsup:


 
I don't think that was a good deal:no:


----------



## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)




----------



## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

Get It Painted said:


> I did not say I yelled. It takes two to argue. Why would you side with the customer when you were not there?





GIP, I am sorry. I stand corrected. You didn't yell, you're voice got loud. We all have to do what we think is right, and at this point it is water under the bridge as to what I think about this situation.


----------



## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

daArch said:


> It appears to me that this discussion is heading toward being impassioned.
> 
> it's a great subject as there are many different viewpoints, all that have value.
> 
> Let's keep the passion a little more in check and not allow this to cross any lines of respect.


I think this thread has kinda gone the way the actual incident did:

* a differences of opinions over what happened and how it should of been 
resolved

* emotional responses leading to a further escalation of emotions

* the intervention of the Po-Po's

Ahhhh... human nature


----------



## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Get It Painted said:


> $476.00 plus the cost of a Lic electrician to install could end up at $800...
> I talked to my ins agent, she said I have no deductible and my rates wouldn't go up.
> 
> Why pay out of pocket when I have coverage?


Interesting insurance policy. 

I am curious about the pics you keep showing for the light. They do not look compatible, they look like two different types of connectors on the bulbs. Are those simply examples or actual? 

Either way I may have handled it differently but you got paid and you got your stuff. The ho's may slander you on various websites but you have your opinion on the incident and they have theirs. Nothing to do now but to move forward.


----------



## wje (Apr 11, 2009)

I find this thread interesting as it has evolved.. 

It is clear who has a good business sense here, and who are more or less just working for themselves. There is a difference.

I have learned over the years you can not take one thing personal about business.. It is business. Sure you have your name on it, but there will always be a cost of doing business. How you handle it can end up defining you. 

I have seen way too many self employed tradesmen ruin there reputations because they were too stubborn to take criticism or blame for things they or their companies had done. They took it to heart, when they really should have fixed the problem, moved on and got paid. Business is not personal. It is the transaction of money for a service we offer. If somebody has a flaw with the service, or property is damaged, while the service is taking place it is the business owners responsibility to take care of any issues that arise during the process..

GIP- Maybe the bulb overheated while you were painting and cracked, but in my opinion even if that was the case, seeing how you had taken over the whole area to paint, it would not be out of this world too assume something may have happened. Even if you didn't break the light, and you had been the only one in there when it happened, I personally would have replaced it just because I was the only possible one there.. Not fight over it.. 

I recently painted a cottage.. She had all new beds delivered and they were standing up on their sides, and she had asked if we could put them flat so the springs didn't get damaged. I said sure that is not a big deal since we had a crew of 4 going in and she was an older lady.

She had one leaned up against a lamp.. When we moved the bed the lamp fell and shattered.. This was not my fault at all, but since I said I would do the favor for her and the lamp broke on my watch, I felt it was my responsibility to buy her a new one. Sure it sucks, as that room wasn't even to be painted, and I started off the job in the hole, but what is worse? Blaming her for leaning the bed against the lamp and pointing fingers? Or sucking it up and keeping her happy with the job, and with the service we provided?

It was a small price to pay to keep a customer happy. It was cheaper than your incident, by far... but to get police involved, letting your emotions run wild, and potentially ruining future referrals was a lot more expensive than the $440 would have been... You didn't need to get emotionally involved as deep as you did..


----------



## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

yes. There are on here some businessmen using painting as their medium then their are some painters who probably just want to paint but have to be in business for themselves maybe just to make a living wage maybe. and then again judging from some of the advice given out some May very well just be unemployable.

any old threads where the painter(employee) got loud with the HO, got tossed out then called the cops? Oh he'd got fired. For sure.


----------



## Get It Painted (Sep 12, 2013)

wje said:


> GIP- Maybe the bulb overheated while you were painting and cracked, but in my opinion even if that was the case, seeing how you had taken over the whole area to paint, it would not be out of this world too assume something may have happened. Even if you didn't break the light, and you had been the only one in there when it happened, I personally would have replaced it just because I was the only possible one there.. Not fight over it..
> 
> I recently painted a cottage.. She had all new beds delivered and they were standing up on their sides, and she had asked if we could put them flat so the springs didn't get damaged. I said sure that is not a big deal since we had a crew of 4 going in and she was an older lady.
> 
> She had one leaned up against a lamp.. When we moved the bed the lamp fell and shattered.. This was not my fault at all, but since I said I would do the favor for her and the lamp broke on my watch, I felt it was my responsibility to buy her a new one. Sure it sucks, as that room wasn't even to be painted, and I started off the job in the hole, but what is worse? Blaming her for leaning the bed against the lamp and pointing fingers? Or sucking it up and keeping her happy with the job, and with the service we provided?


 
WJE, I was there. I am an extremely careful and a anal retentive tradesmen. I know I had nothing to do with the light breaking.

I went to school to be an electrician, but I didn't complete the 2 year course and ended up becoming a painter. You have to trust me on this one, it was the wrong bulb and the damage to the light fixture was caused by that. The HO has my ins certificate and a claim is in place. However, I told my ins co I DID NOT DO IT and showed them this photo. This is a clean smooth heat break. 

As far as your lamp breakage, you were indirectly responsible and you did the right thing. I would have done the same. My situation is much different than yours.


----------



## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

Where's the mods?
Lock this dog down for pete's sake.


For my sake also...


----------



## Get It Painted (Sep 12, 2013)

Oden said:


> yes. There are on here some businessmen using painting as their medium then their are some painters who probably just want to paint but have to be in business for themselves maybe just to make a living wage maybe. and then again judging from some of the advice given out some May very well just be unemployable.
> 
> any old threads where the painter(employee) got loud with the HO, got tossed out then called the cops? Oh he'd got fired. For sure.


Thanks for giving me the benefit of doubt and using your minds eye to paint a negative picture of me and my situation. You go Oden... Guarantee if your employer falsely accused you of breaking something on the job, then wanted to deduct $450 from your paycheck, you would be breaking out Thors Hammer.
as·sump·tion (







n)
_n._*1. *The act of taking to or upon oneself: assumption of an obligation.
*2. *The act of taking possession or asserting a claim: assumption of command.
*3. *The act of taking for granted: assumption of a false theory.
*4. *Something taken for granted or accepted as true without proof; a supposition:

ax·i·om (







m)
_n._*3. *A self-evident principle or one that is accepted as true without proof as the basis for argument; a postulate.


----------



## Get It Painted (Sep 12, 2013)

fauxlynn said:


> GIP, I am sorry. I stand corrected. You didn't yell, you're voice got loud. We all have to do what we think is right, and at this point it is water under the bridge as to what I think about this situation.


"you're voice got loud." and it's nice to know that you were there to hear my loud voice. Much more to the story than that my dear...

The customer was a dear sweet lady that did absolutely NOTHING to aggravate and instigate the situation. It was all my doing. You keep believing that!

But thanks for your apology...


----------



## Get It Painted (Sep 12, 2013)

CApainter said:


> I think this is the same model
> 
> http://www.lightinguniverse.com/min...isku=6264522&linkloc=cataLogProductItemsImage
> 
> This is probably the customer shopping for the same light


Workaholic, this is the only info I have on the light fixture posted by CApainter.

This may not be the same manufacturer as the customers, however, it looks identical. The light above says it was shipped with a halogen.
One thing I can confirm, when touching the light fixture, it was hot enough to cook eggs on it.


----------



## oldccm (Jan 23, 2013)

IMO the glass cracked not because the cfl put off more heat than the halogen but because the cfl took up 95% of the room inside the glass. A halogen will put off more heat but having a 2" gap between the halogen and the glass will allow it to 'breath' and not affect the glass. 99 times out of 100 I would just have paid for the light, but there's always that 100th time where you say 'I'm not going to take this bullsh1t'. I'm guessing its one of those jobs where 10 min in you started to get that 'feeling' about a homeowner, you go out and do a meticulous job thinking she'll be happy and out of left field you get hit with this. It happens, you'll move on they'll move on and you'll be wiser. Maybe next time you'll catch the crack first. There's a reason we're journeyman, it's a long journey.


----------



## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Geeze what a thread, guess I will weigh in too. 
I have always worked on the 'customer is always right' theory. Luckily, nothing even remotely like the OP's situation has ever happened to me. I only ever made one insurance claim, when a worker walked through a screen door and tore it all to pieces. Was no big deal. 

I can sympathize with feeling like someone (customer) is trying to get one over on you. I have felt that way a time or two over the years, even lost my temper once in an extreme case. From what I gather, the OP feels like the HO is deliberately being fraudulent rather than just making a mistake or being mistaken. Idk, if I felt like that was the case, it would be harder for me to suck it up and take responsibility. But I would like to think I still would just to be diplomatic. 

Sounds like there was some serious bad vibes generated on this job, and somewhat spilling over into this thread! Maybe it's time to chillax.


----------



## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

sad thing is it's on the Internet for futures customers to see


----------



## Get It Painted (Sep 12, 2013)

Workaholic said:


> Interesting insurance policy.


Its seems hard for some to believe that a Contractor General Liability policy can have no deductible. Apparently, you guys have not done your research or homework. Here are a few that I found today with no deductible. 

I assure you, my policy has NO deductible… I was on the phone with the ins agent, and there in person regarding this claim. 

HISCOX
What deductible options do you offer?
There is *no deductible* with our general liability insurance policy. You can quickly get a general liability insurance quote online and select different deductible amounts to see how they affect your premium, or call one of our licensed advisors at 866-283-7545 (Monday - Friday, 8am-10pm EST).
-------------------------------------------------------
Trinity Ins
Program Feature
*No Deductible*


----------



## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Get It Painted said:


> Workaholic, this is the only info I have on the light fixture posted by CApainter.
> 
> This may not be the same manufacturer as the customers, however, it looks identical. The light above says it was shipped with a halogen.
> One thing I can confirm, when touching the light fixture, it was hot enough to cook eggs on it.


If in fact the light fixture is a Tech Lighting 700 series Fire Grande, it could very well be the 700TTFIRGPC-CFL which offers a 27 watt compact fluorescent light bulb as induicated in the following link:

http://www.lightingdirect.com/tech-...ass-line-voltage-fluorescent-pendant/p2222573


As someone mentioned, there isn't a whole lot of room in there along with the CFL ballast.


Note: It just dawned on me after reviewing this latest link, that the homeowner could have pursued the lighting manufacturer for a faulty product, if the light was still under original warranty. You may want to present that to her as an olive branch. 

The plot thickens. Time for another drink


----------



## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

the lightbulb argument never had any merit at all. everyone who looked at the two bulbs in question and had any experience at all with halogens brought up that the two bulbs were not interchangeable. the pins were completely different. If the bulb doesn't fit, you must aquit...


----------



## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

CApainter said:


> If in fact the light fixture is a Tech Lighting 700 series Fire Grande, it could very well be the 700TTFIRGPC-CFL which offers a 27 watt compact fluorescent light bulb as induicated in the following link:


Good find.

and for those who did not click on the link, here's a quote:



> Includes 120 volt, 60 watt G9 base halogen lamp or 120 volt GU24 base 27 watt self-ballasted *compact fluorescent lamp*


I know I'm not the brightest bulb on the porch, but doesn't this suggest that perhaps the bulb used was within manufacturer's specifications ? Doesn't this suggest perhaps the HO did NOT have the wrong bulb in the lamp ?


----------



## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

daArch said:


> Good find.
> 
> and for those who did not click on the link, here's a quote:
> 
> ...





> Lamping Technologies:
> Bulb Base - GU24 - The GU24 bulb base is used with self ballasted twist lock compact fluorescent bulbs and has a pin spread of 24 mm.
> Compatible Bulb Types: GU24 Bulb base uses primarily a Fluorescent bulb but is also available as Halogen, LED, and Xenon / Krypton.


Seems to be a multi use light as long as the bulb fits and uses 24mm pin type.


----------



## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

The Halogen and CFL are compatible with this light fixture. That may be besides the point. Mending the relationship between GIP and the homeowner is what's important now, and a warranty issue may just be the remedy that resolves this unfortunate interlude. 

Speaking of remedies, I think I need another beer given how the Niners are getting spanked by the Colts.


----------



## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Yall like playing ball with AJ huh? Also, Manning is da man. Both of them.


----------



## cdaniels (Oct 20, 2012)

Paradigmzz said:


> Yall like playing ball with AJ huh? Also, Manning is da man. Both of them.


I agree but the Giants offensive line sucks.


----------



## Get It Painted (Sep 12, 2013)

Workaholic said:


> Seems to be a multi use light as long as the bulb fits and uses 24mm pin type.


wattage for the light calls for 27 watts.
I have 40 watts in my lamp and the globes remain cool.
There are replacement bulbs at home depot up to 100 watts. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Philips-...FL-Light-Bulb-E-417253/203536945#.Uj9x3n-i8TY

only the customers know what's in them. The customers lights were extremely hot to the touch. Correct base or not, I hold firm that the wrong bulbs were in them.


----------



## Tonyg (Dec 9, 2007)

Get It Painted said:


> wattage for the light calls for 27 watts.
> I have 40 watts in my lamp and the globes remain cool.
> There are replacement bulbs at home depot up to 100 watts. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Philips-...FL-Light-Bulb-E-417253/203536945#.Uj9x3n-i8TY
> 
> only the customers know what's in them. The customers lights were extremely hot to the touch. Correct base or not, I hold firm that the wrong bulbs were in them.


umm, that link is for the 23-Watt CFL (100 watt equivalent). The light was rated for as high as a 27 watt CFL.

Just saying, if your basing evidence on the wrong bulb, it appears they may have had the correct bulb. They did sell a 42 watt (150W equiv) so I guess it is possible they would have changed a 100w bulb that last 9 years for a 150w. 

Dunno, if it was me, and its not, but I think I would be rethinking the situation, eat crow and apologize for losing my cool. I'd say "I'm sorry for the way everything turned out, I still don't think I broke it but I will pay the cost of the light" You take the high road and they eat snot because you come out looking better than them.


----------



## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

Get It Painted said:


> "you're voice got loud." and it's nice to know that you were there to hear my loud voice. Much more to the story than that my dear...
> 
> The customer was a dear sweet lady that did absolutely NOTHING to aggravate and instigate the situation. It was all my doing. You keep believing that!
> 
> But thanks for your apology...





Get It Painted said:


> I approach the home owner showing her she was using the wrong bulb, she immediately resorted to nit pic my work, work that looked great 2 days ago, now had stick-ups all over the wall. I got pissed and said you are trying to collect on my insurance when you know I didn’t do it and that is fraud, my voice got loud and then she threw me out of her house. I had to get a police escort to get my equipment out of her garage.
> 
> Here is a pic I took from my truck. take note to the cop in the garage...
> Stressful day, I need some beers. Ughhh


GIP, I am using your words from your post, I didn't have to be there. I'm going by what you have told us. BTW, everyone else that has voiced their opinion wasn't there either, so what's up with that? I am sorry for upsetting you.


----------



## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Get It Painted said:


> wattage for the light calls for 27 watts.
> I have 40 watts in my lamp and the globes remain cool.
> There are replacement bulbs at home depot up to 100 watts. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Philips-...FL-Light-Bulb-E-417253/203536945#.Uj9x3n-i8TY
> 
> only the customers know what's in them. The customers lights were extremely hot to the touch. Correct base or not, I hold firm that the wrong bulbs were in them.


I think you might think I am against you. I really am not. I was not there so I am judging my reaction to the scenario based on other odd sh!t I have encountered in the past. Going by that I probably would have handled it differently and not called my insurance company, of course I do have a deductible so I would have played nice and offered to pay for the light and called an electrician friend of mine to minimize the cost. 

You did what you felt was right, so I can not fault you for that. Had I been there I may have done something similar, or I would have just done what I have done in the past. Who knows since I was not there, but my first post in this thread showed I recently encountered a similar situation and my response was to buy them a new light. The difference is they loved their early 90's light and a replacement was not available. 

Either way this post shot my standard 7 word reply out of the water, so I say the bed is made and wait to see what crawls out of it in the morning.


----------



## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

Get It Painted said:


> There is a little movement on the globe inside. The customer has me second guessing myself. I know I didn't whack it. but, there may have been a chance that the two glasses connected lightly while covering and uncovering with plastic. I am really not sure. After painting the ceiling and at the end of the day, I cleaned up and didn't think twice about breaking anything. Just went home and came back in the morning. About lunch time, the HO said, oh, there is a crack in the light... I quickly said, I did not do it, I handled your stuff with care. The husband called that night and said, you were the only one in the house, how else could it have broke? I said, I have no idea. But as wise painters said, I have the island covered up with contractor paper. That shows that I took much care to protect there stuff.


first page. Own words. You aint' sure at all u didn't break that light.


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Am I the only one thinking "a $400 light fixture should come with LED bulbs". They're by far the safest and most efficient, my absolute favorite on the market.


----------



## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

CApainter said:


> Speaking of remedies, I think I need another beer given how the Niners are getting spanked by the Colts.


yes they are.


----------



## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

NCPaint1 said:


> Am I the only one thinking "a $400 light fixture should come with LED bulbs". They're by far the safest and most efficient, my absolute favorite on the market.


That is 2015


----------



## Get It Painted (Sep 12, 2013)

Oden said:


> first page. Own words. You aint' sure at all u didn't break that light.


Oden, when you break something, you know it.
When you may have broke something, you know it.
When there is the slightest possibility you broke something, you know it.
I know in my gut that i didn't break it. It is clear as day...

Here is my F-up story... 
I had a guy working for me who broke a lamp in a bedroom. The homeowner said, don't worry about it. That night, I went to Target and bought her a nice light and gave it to her the next morning.


----------



## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

I honestly hope the best for you GIP. I wasn't there, don't know what happened, etc. IMO, you handled the situation poorly. At best, you were accused by your customer for something you didn't do. Rather than handle it in a professional manner, you got overly defensive, and accused the HO of insurance fraud. As a result, you had to have police assist you in retrieving your tools. This could easily have a negative impact on your bank account several times the value of the light. I'm not saying it will for sure, but the potential exists for this haunting you for some time. I hope you can learn something from this and move forward.


----------



## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

GIP,

Are those lights on a dimmer switch? Most dimmable bulbs are incandescent only. If those CFL's are on a dimmer switch, and are not designed to be dimmable, that could void the warranty.


----------



## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Paradigmzz said:


> Yall like playing ball with AJ huh? .


*DAMMIT* we been Philly AJ'ed again

*SHEEEEEET ! ! !*

I'm gonna nuke the whole freeking delaware valley

right after I close this


----------



## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

I feel so used.


----------



## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> I feel so used.


he's gone


----------

