# HVLP tips



## briancreary (Oct 12, 2010)

Hey, I recently bought a used Cap Spray 9100 HVLP sprayer and just got a chance to use it, spraying Super Spec Alkyd. I was very, very impressed. I'm used to spraying airless with a 214 tip Rac X and it works well, but this finish with the HVLP was better in my opinion. 

My questions are, since I'm still learning, are there any tips or helpfull hints from guys who are more experienced using HVLP? Does using different needles/tips get better effects? (Currently have a #3) And, are there any wise words of things I might not know or ways to dial in the spray faster/better? Thanks (I've read the online manuel, talked with local store and person I bought it from, and these questions are'nt really answered.)


----------



## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

Why not do a search (you're already on the internet).

HA

Hi Brian!

It's me, Steve Richards!

You know...from CT!


BTW...Nice lookin' trim :thumbsup:


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Dialing in is the biggest thing to get right. I see guys want to go full air on these HVLP's and all that does is fill up the room fast. I wrote an article on dialing in using the 9100. Give it a glance and let me know if you have questions.

I take the time to dial in properly. Scott posted a video recently using a Graco model. Looks to me the air was up too high. If he was anything like me with a new toy, he opened the box, filled it and turned it on. :thumbsup: The overspray seen in his video can be cut back considerably for reference. I basically cut the air off and work from there to dial back in. The 9100 works off very tiny movements in the dial. Noon to 6 is the same as 6 to noon. From air off to air on, only takes a tiny change in the dial. Hair adjustments.

Scott - did you get to fool with that sprayer anymore? Whats the verdict. Seems like a nice unit. Jealous how quiet it is.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Only thing Brian, you can produce a nicer finish than what you posted and so much faster with a FFT 210 and an airless. Having produced that trim piece, do you agree? I can still see orange peel, faintly but its there. Curious what you think? Unless thats factory primer showing through the topcoat.

Even a regular 311 will lay it down tight like below.


----------



## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

214 is pretty big for trim.


----------



## briancreary (Oct 12, 2010)

jack pauhl said:


> Only thing Brian, you can produce a nicer finish than what you posted and so much faster with a FFT 210 and an airless. Having produced that trim piece, do you agree? I can still see orange peel, faintly but its there. Curious what you think? Unless thats factory primer showing through the topcoat.
> 
> Even a regular 311 will lay it down tight like below.


Thanks, well the guy running the site insisted on spraying them standing up with an airless two coats first. He used Zinsser coverstain oil. The job was then sanded before he had me HVLP spray the finish. So there may be some telegraphing of his initial finish, but you are right, I had the feeling this could be much smoother. I do have another question to that, "Wouldn't spraying the doors lying down leave a much smoother finish?" I think it only makes sense that a self leveling paint would work better with gravity working to help it smooth out. :whistling2:


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> Dialing in is the biggest thing to get right. I see guys want to go full air on these HVLP's and all that does is fill up the room fast. I wrote an article on dialing in using the 9100. Give it a glance and let me know if you have questions.
> 
> I take the time to dial in properly. Scott posted a video recently using a Graco model. Looks to me the air was up too high. If he was anything like me with a new toy, he opened the box, filled it and turned it on. :thumbsup: The overspray seen in his video can be cut back considerably for reference. I basically cut the air off and work from there to dial back in. The 9100 works off very tiny movements in the dial. Noon to 6 is the same as 6 to noon. From air off to air on, only takes a tiny change in the dial. Hair adjustments.
> 
> Scott - did you get to fool with that sprayer anymore? Whats the verdict. Seems like a nice unit. Jealous how quiet it is.


Jack

You are correct. We literally had just received it, cracked the box open and wanted to run some product through it, a flow check basically. We have another comparable unit that we will be running head to head soon. We havent had too much opportunity with the Graco yet, but definitely excited about it.


----------



## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

One thing I rarely hear guys talk about is what they use as a thinner when they're using HVLPs. All of the units that we've used pump air that is warmer than ambient, in some cases substantially. While we'd use Varnish Maker's and Painter's to thin alkyds for trim with an airless, we use regular mineral spirits with the HVLP. The "cooler" solvent results in less orange peel and allows the paint to level better.


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Gough said:


> One thing I rarely hear guys talk about is what they use as a thinner when they're using HVLPs. All of the units that we've used pump air that is warmer than ambient, in some cases substantially. While we'd use Varnish Maker's and Painter's to thin alkyds for trim with an airless, we use regular mineral spirits with the HVLP. The "cooler" solvent results in less orange peel and allows the paint to level better.


Last fall I spent alot of time in the shop on two very large custom cabinet jobs for a cabinet maker. One batch was paint grade, and the other batch was all cherry, receiving antique cherry dye stain and clear coats. By doing both batches myself, using both hvlp and aaa. I was able to manipulate the air (in the room) temps to my advantage by turning the heat down to 50 during spraying, and even cracking windows in the area of our hardwired wall fan to get really good draw out. This allowed me to lay products on really heavy, and know that they had plenty of time lay there and level. As soon as a batch "flashed off", fan goes off, windows closed and crank the heat for curing. I got into a heck of a rhythm. 

The best I have come up with on the hvlp air temp issue you describe, is I try not to run the units for too long, and I shut them down frequently. I know some cabinet guys who put the turbine in a closet or other enclosure and leave it on for hours. That would be a bad thing. Also, the units I have come with attachments that are intended to help with cooling air as it leaves the turbine. But you are right, an infusion of hot air is not ideal for most products, thats why I tend to prefer slow drying products, and even when using not so slow drying products, I am looking for ways to slow them down. I have a new system in the shop that we havent even set up yet that is supposed to solve alot of these issues, and in a way that is even beyond aaa.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

briancreary said:


> Thanks, well the guy running the site insisted on spraying them standing up with an airless two coats first. He used Zinsser coverstain oil. The job was then sanded before he had me HVLP spray the finish. So there may be some telegraphing of his initial finish, but you are right, I had the feeling this could be much smoother. I do have another question to that, "Wouldn't spraying the doors lying down leave a much smoother finish?" I think it only makes sense that a self leveling paint would work better with gravity working to help it smooth out. :whistling2:


No, thats not necessarily true at all to lay them horizontal. That door pic I posted was shot as-is. We never lay them out. They all turn out only as smooth as whats under the topcoat. However, some paints simply dont layout tight no matter what. You can shoot glass and turn smooth into not so smooth like your photo. Not saying the photo you posted is bad at all, haha its far nicer than some guys care to turn out. It just has tell-tale signs it was shot. Like you said, could be a combination of things. Paint, the mix, atomization or what degree of sanding went into the undercoat. Does look nice tho, dont get me wrong. 

On laying doors horizontal... practice makes perfect... its more productive upright and you can produce fine finishes just the same as someone laying them flat.  I've seen guys shoot doors laying down and produce orange peel. Hard to pinpoint exactly why but paint type plays a huge role in how tight that paint pulls without gravity.


----------



## briancreary (Oct 12, 2010)

here's a picture of one of the doors and our beautiful -4 Michigan outdoors in the background. About the same story


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> Jack
> 
> You are correct. We literally had just received it, cracked the box open and wanted to run some product through it, a flow check basically. We have another comparable unit that we will be running head to head soon. We havent had too much opportunity with the Graco yet, but definitely excited about it.


figured so... I used the 9100 for a good portion of last week, enough to not want to raise my arms anymore. Shot CoverStain oil on poplar trim. :thumbsup: Shot some SW Proclassic hybrid too :thumbdown: Look forward to the head to head shoot out. No pun intended.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

:whistling2:


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> :whistling2:


Someone who I respect very much turned me onto this (not Devflex) a couple of years ago as a penetration enhancement method for brazilian rosewood oil on mahogany. 

:whistling2: is right.


----------



## briancreary (Oct 12, 2010)

jack pauhl said:


> figured so... I used the 9100 for a good portion of last week, enough to not want to raise my arms anymore. Shot CoverStain oil on poplar trim. :thumbsup: Shot some SW Proclassic hybrid too :thumbdown: Look forward to the head to head shoot out. No pun intended.


I hear that LOL! I shot a whole house of trim and 15 doors. I hurt so bad by the end of it I thought I had a gym membership or something.


----------



## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Anyone switch to a pressure-pot HVLP system for doing a houseful of trim and doors? We do that for anything more than a couple of doors and it's a lot easier on my shoulder and arm to only be holding the gun. As always, there's the trade-off with the time and material for clean-up.

We use a 2-quart pressure pot or a two-gallon pressure for larger jobs, depending on the setting. The 2-quart can hang on a belt and moves with you. The big one we normally only use if we have a stack of doors in one place.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Warm paint levels nice. Cold paint - not so much. Nothing like fresh paint cooking in the mornings. aaah


----------



## briancreary (Oct 12, 2010)

This is why I like this site. Thanks for the info guys. I felt like I was a pretty good painter and then I came here and realized there's a whole level I didn't expect to find. I feel like I was the star of AA painting only to find out there's a triple A and the MAJORS still to get to (If you don't love baseball this won't make sense). 

Hopefully I will one day have the superstar Hack status of Steve Richards wheelchair: Too bad the Broncos get a higher draft pick since the Lions decided to look like a football team their last 4 games, sheesh:no.


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

briancreary said:


> This is why I like this site. Thanks for the info guys. I felt like I was a pretty good painter and then I came here and realized there's a whole level I didn't expect to find. I feel like I was the star of AA painting only to find out there's a triple A and the MAJORS still to get to (If you don't love baseball this won't make sense).


Most of the regulars here are former number one draft picks.


----------



## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

briancreary said:


> Hopefully I will one day have the superstar Hack status of Steve Richards


:whistling2:

I still close my eyes before I swing!


----------



## briancreary (Oct 12, 2010)

Steve Richards said:


> :whistling2:
> 
> I still close my eyes before I swing!


actually i picture you more like the grizzled old coach that's always barking. Something like this:


----------



## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

that devflex is great paint.

SO.. this warmer is pretty much doing what those line warmers do. I am still interested in getting one for my airless.


----------



## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

How well does the plate warmer work now that almost everything is coming in plastic cans?


----------



## briancreary (Oct 12, 2010)

DeanV said:


> How well does the plate warmer work now that almost everything is coming in plastic cans?


LOL, that could be disasterous. Kidding aside, I did notice a marked improvement the longer I shot material and the warmer the line got. I was considering ways to warm the paint before I posted this thread but never considered a warming plate. I thought about putting the can next to a ceramic heater or something. The cans get pretty cold in the Michigan weather comming from the paint store to the jobsite.


----------



## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

I think johnpaint put up a link to those paint line warmers. I wonder how warming the paint does performance wise to the coating. I wonder if if is a harder coating or if there is an actual physical advantage to the warming of paint prior to application.


----------



## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Get a Titan Multifinish 440 and combo the speed of a airless with the fine spraying abilities of a HVLP. Best purchase I made last year. I'm buying another this month.


----------



## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

The cabinets I just finished, I did the first two coats with an airless and FF tip. The last coat I took out my Graco cupgun and added a splash of retarder to get the furniture finish. I haven't found an HVLP set-up to match the finish from a cupgun yet.


----------



## Paintuh4Life (May 20, 2009)

What is a Graco Cup Gun? Are you referring to a proshot?


----------



## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

No, it's a Graco Model 600 Refinishing Spray Gun....uses an air-compressor. I have different caps and needles depending on the viscosity of the fluids I'm spraying.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Brian, one other thing about those check valves on the 9100 (poor design). After awhile of shooting in all directions the paint will work its way past the valve assembly and may even force paint around the air cap. Just happened to me yesterday. I was using a brand new check valve and shot no more than 40 mins constantly with CoverStain oil-base primer. You'll know when it happens before you start dripping or spitting paint --you'll lose your awesome spray pattern you dialed in. Just release the cup pressure and pop it off and clean it good.

Edit: I changed the alignment of the lid by loosening the nut above the bridge and off setting it. Makes getting the check valve off a bit easier.


----------



## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Those Capspray check valves are horrible. Everytime I found some in a paint store, I would buy them all up. The Graco guns use a much better check valve and it cleans much easier (although I have never had to clean it yet).

BTW, how in the world can you have the patience for an HVLP turbine JP?????

Coverstain must need a lot of thinning before that will push it through and atomize it well.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

DeanV said:


> Those Capspray check valves are horrible. Everytime I found some in a paint store, I would buy them all up. The Graco guns use a much better check valve and it cleans much easier (although I have never had to clean it yet).
> 
> BTW, how in the world can you have the patience for an HVLP turbine JP?????
> 
> Coverstain must need a lot of thinning before that will push it through and atomize it well.


You can use fish tubing from a pet store if in a pinch.

Its slow motion spraying no doubt. On this job we sand the CoverStain oil-base primer super smooth, very smooth which burns out a bit here and there. We reduce the primer and shoot the trim with more primer. Its a very fine smooth coat and goes fairly quick because its reduced. I use #3 set. Its not sanded again after that final coat. 16-18oz to a gallon or more.


----------



## Andyman (Feb 21, 2009)

I also have the 9100, its a great sprayer. I run #3 for oil and #4 or latex. I currently just shot Easy Sand and ASE oil, about to spray PC oil through it. I'm doing a cabinet refinish with previously stained oak cabinets and going to a crimson red undercoat with a creme topcoat with edges sanded to expose the red. A few tips, always clean it really well after use, a little build up can mess the pattern up. I also keep spare packing parts around if I'm on a job and one breaks. It takes some practice but when you figure out how much to thin and your adjustments you can move pretty quick and get awesome results.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

RE: Needle

It's likely to have build-up around the needle behind the trigger after a day of heavy spraying. Its a good idea to try to wipe the exposed portion of the needle before you pull the needle out. That dried paint can pull the packing out with the needle. Its like teflon tape wrapped around for the packing and if the needle snags it, its unravels it. Then you need to repack. Like Andyman said: its a good idea to have those common spare parts handy.


----------



## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

briancreary said:


> This is why I like this site. Thanks for the info guys. I felt like I was a pretty good painter and then I came here and realized there's a whole level I didn't expect to find. I feel like I was the star of AA painting only to find out there's a triple A and the MAJORS still to get to (If you don't love baseball this won't make sense).
> 
> Hopefully I will one day have the superstar Hack status of Steve Richards wheelchair: Too bad the Broncos get a higher draft pick since the Lions decided to look like a football team their last 4 games, sheesh:no.



The more I read and learn, the more I learn what I have yet to learn.


----------

