# Benjamin Moore Impervex



## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Helping a friend out on a small job of his, a couple of built-ins and some doors/trim. HO specified BM paints and Impervex for the trim. Between the two of us, we have 63+ years of solid experience, and have never run into the problems using a product as we have with this. One was a darker color, which went on, (spray) okay, but really had no flow. The lighter color, (lighthouse landing), was a total disaster. After spraying the paint actually started to separate as it was drying. These were all new pieces and primed with BM primer. Thought it might be a bad batch, so we got another gallon and the same thing happened. Looked in the can, and watched the pigments separate again. Finally said to hell with it, and went and got some SW Incredicoat.

I don't know if it has something to do with the new colorants or what. Guess who'll be wearing their SW shirt to the Berkshire Hathway stockholders meeting again.:whistling2:


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## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

Used it once and never again two years ago right when the local store started carrying it.. I told the them how bad it was but they did not believe me so I had them come out and try it needless to say they do not carry it anymore its that bad.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Impervex is the high gloss latex, right? I have only used ot once years ago. It is similar to the low luster metal and wood, if i am recallng correctly. I do not think the "seperating" is true seperating. Those paints have a weird opalescent look when wet and then dry fine. The low luster version at least is pretty good and easy to work with. Anytime i paint furniture black, it is my go to black for hvlp and then topcoat with clear.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Dean, this stuff not only had the pigment separating, (believe it or not, I know what prigment separation looks like), but as it was drying it was getting fisheyes, pinholes, etc.. The second coat wouldn't even bond to the first. Pathetic stuff. The kicker was that when he picked up the second gallon, the BM rep was there, took the job address, said he'd come look at it and didn't show. Yes, this was the high-gloss also.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Not good. That sort of stuff is not always easy to sand out once it dries.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Impervex - Thumbs way down.

I have had similar problems.

Go with Aura SG. Almost as tempermental.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Sorry to doubt you wolf. That line of paint, even when it behaves properly is the wierdest looking paint i have ever seen when in the can or just applied. Nothing else like it. The low luster version has an outstanding reputation with the local paint store reps. I do not know much about the gloss version though.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

I like my paint to behave nicely and play well with others.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

I love the stuff. The low luster is almost bullet proof. Dries super hard and levels great. It does look weird in the can, and does the chameleon color change while drying. Don't have any experience with the latex high gloss, but I do with the oil. Have done trailers, book cases, a truck bed, and a snow plow with it....never an issue. 

Which primer did you use? When something fisheyes its usually a foreign substance on the substrate or found its way into the material. You said that you used an HVLP....didn't accidentally have any residual xylene or lacquer in the cup by chance?


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Airless with a 411 tip. We wet sanded everything with 220 and put the first coat of IncrediCoat on, and for the first coat it looked great.

NC, we used the BM primer, (new can), and the darker color came out okay. Didn't have the leveling properties I expected, or the glossiness. The problem was with the light color. In about an hours time, the paint would totally separate in the can. Never saw anything like it, and getting too old to have to deal with it. LOL Do you think it could have something to do with the new colorants/tints?


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

No, because as far as I know, the Impervo & Impervex don't use the new colorants. Unless they've been reformulated, the ones I stock still use the old system. They might have been old stock, but that doesn't explain the fish eye. I don't stock any gallons of the stuff, only quarts...its not a huge seller. I have 2 customers that swear by it for trim/doors, and I order gallons for them.


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

Never liked the Impervex HG. Haven't used it in many years. I also for the first time, had trouble with the Impervo last fall on some iron rails. 3 days later it rained and the finish cringed where the water sat on it a little. Tried to sand it out and recoat the top rails and it was still gummy a week later. Had to strip the top rails and start from scratch. Ended up with $500 in future material from the BM rep-he never saw it-just took my word for it. They know it's bad. I really believe half of the stuff we use anymore is an experiment and we're the guinea pigs. They are constantly messing with the formulations and getting it out on the market long before it has been proven.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Well thanks for the answers. I was hoping you would give your expertise on it. More than anything, I was just severely disappointed in the product. Honestly, before I point the finger at any product, I always look at myself and what I'm doing first. When it happened with both of us and with 2 different gallons, the alarms started going off. Besides, when you get a couple of old-timers starting to question their sanity on a job....well you get the general idea.:whistling2:

Thanks again NC.:thumbsup:


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Cliff. Strictly a guess...if you did it in the fall, it was too cold during application. It wasn't fully dried when it got wet causing the wrinkling. When you recoated, it still wasn't dry and the coat you applied to fix the problem trapped solvent from the previous coat causing the top layer to be "gummy". 

With the VOC regs, alkyds are much more temperamental than ever before. They cure slowly, yellow much faster, and will get stringy.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Wolfgang said:


> Well thanks for the answers. I was hoping you would give your expertise on it. More than anything, I was just severely disappointed in the product. Honestly, before I point the finger at any product, I always look at myself and what I'm doing first. When it happened with both of us and with 2 different gallons, the alarms started going off. Besides, when you get a couple of old-timers starting to question their sanity on a job....well you get the general idea.:whistling2:
> 
> Thanks again NC.:thumbsup:


If you have some leftover. Paint some on a primed board, and some on a bare board. Brush/roll, doeasnt matter. See if it does of again. If it does, return it to the store and take them the samples. Could very well be a bad batch.


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

NCPaint1 said:


> Cliff. Strictly a guess...if you did it in the fall, it was too cold during application. It wasn't fully dried when it got wet causing the wrinkling. When you recoated, it still wasn't dry and the coat you applied to fix the problem trapped solvent from the previous coat causing the top layer to be "gummy".
> 
> With the VOC regs, alkyds are much more temperamental than ever before. They cure slowly, yellow much faster, and will get stringy.


 It actually was summer, but you are most likely correct. That being said, if we've got HG Oil that can't take a rain shower 3 days after you do it, then why bother making it??!!?? We,re not working in controlled environments, it's the real world. Maybe it's a situation where with the new regs it just can't be accomplished anymore-if that's the case just accept it and stop making it. It is still being sold as the right thing to do.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Cliff, the first post you made you said fall not summer? Thats why I was thinking temperature may have affected curing.

Oil's are being phased out slowly but surely. Even though they're crappier than before, in many cases they're still the best for the job....go figure right. 

Depending on your area, some allow a higher VOC content than others. Manufacturers on the other hand might make a product in a lower VOC formula that can be sold in all areas rather than multiple batches with different VOC content for specific areas.


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

NCPaint1 said:


> Cliff, the first post you made you said fall not summer? Thats why I was thinking temperature may have affected curing.
> 
> Oil's are being phased out slowly but surely. Even though they're crappier than before, in many cases they're still the best for the job....go figure right.
> 
> Depending on your area, some allow a higher VOC content than others. Manufacturers on the other hand might make a product in a lower VOC formula that can be sold in all areas rather than multiple batches with different VOC content for specific areas.


September in NY-I guess it could go either way.. lol.
I realize they are being phased out and changing and there are new considerations. I hear ya.. still the best of the worst. I'm just saying if an oil HG needs more than 3 dry days before a rain shower to be able to handle the rain shower than I don't think they should be selling it to me for exterior iron work. Lets just accept the fact that we can't make it well anymore and move on. I am the last guy who wants to see the oil go. Oils have been my go to paints for trim/woodwork and metals for 35 years. As much as I would hate to start painting iron rails with waterborne products I can't have wet oil paint 3 days after I do it. The fact that BM gave me $500 site unseen tells me they know..and that I've still got the benefit of the doubt Thanks for your insights NC, apologies to all for getting off topic from the Impervex discussion.


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## Ramsey (Jan 15, 2011)

I've used tons of impervos because they were specd for the jobs and always hated it. When and if you get that $50 gallon bm to go on right it does dry very nice and levels good but I don't believe it's reAl user friendly. I've done alot of spraying and the stuff as hard to get right. The last time I used it on an entire house , bookcases, trim, doors, built ins, fp, you name it. Even window sashes. I spent more time wetsanding than painting. I was using a 2 gallon portable pot sprayer that layer anything on good . I think it's overrated and overpriced. Product. Typical for bm paints tho. Alot people love and swear by bm. I don't and never have. As a contractor u also need fast coverage , time is money. I've always had to 3 ct almost all bm products. To establish a good finish. But impervos they swear by and it junk in my opinion only so font be offended. Bm lovers. I can 2 coat any Sw product and be satisfied and it'll still be on the wall and dry when I get their tomm. And don't have to play with the curtains. Impervo dries gorgeous but getting their is a battle. Jmo.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I did a large fish tank cabinet a while back for a local car dealer in black gloss impervex. It is finicky paint, and looks like crap as it dries hazey and uneven. However when you get it right and reduced properly the finish is amazing. 

He called me last week to come and look at some stuff, and looked at it in his office. It looked like glass.


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## DHlll (Dec 22, 2010)

only thing i can think out is the problem with the tinting. NCpaint you can probably explain better but i believe most ben moore stores have multiple machines now with multiple tinting codes. Gennax tint have a different code and have to go into specific new paint lines. I have heard of stories of guys at stores getting this mixed up. The new tints are NOT compatible with all the paint lines......look into it.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

DHlll said:


> only thing i can think out is the problem with the tinting. NCpaint you can probably explain better but i believe most ben moore stores have multiple machines now with multiple tinting codes. Gennax tint have a different code and have to go into specific new paint lines. I have heard of stories of guys at stores getting this mixed up. The new tints are NOT compatible with all the paint lines......look into it.


Even having multiple machines, the way the new system works, you actually have to TRY to screw up. Is almost impossible to make an error. You have to tell the computer what color, what product, then scan the barcode on the can to make sure you have the right product and base. If its wrong, the machine wont tint it. 

Unless they're doing a manual entry, there's no way possible to screw up. Even then, a manual entry is much more work..so I'm doubtful they'd make a mistake doing that.


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