# Cabinet Paint



## Wolverine

Hi Guys,

I'm curious if any of you have used this ( http://www.cabinetrescue.com/ ) product before. I've been approached to make a product like this but better. I'm sure we can make something alot better... well... if we know what 'better' means... 

We don't really make anything for residential use although some people get their hands on our products for garage floors. So, I need some advice. Obviously, we know chemisty and how to make paint. What we don't know is the valuable knowledge that you guys have that use stuff like this every day! 

So, 
First... if you've used this product... what do you know about it... good & bad
Second, what would be the 'Holy Grail' for a product like this. What properties are important... dry time... etc... 
Last, what do you use now that sticks to cabinets and melamine? 

Thanks guys... if we decide to do this project and make a product I'll let you guys know...


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## slickshift

Never used the product

Sand/BIN/Waterborne Enamel would be what I'd do now

On a side note:
Cabinet Rescue should really spend a penny on their website
The kid-friendly cartoons (MS Clip Art) and cheesy graphics aren't inspiring me with confidence in their product
I certainly wouldn't pay for anything from them


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## Wolverine

slickshift said:


> Never used the product
> 
> Sand/BIN/Waterborne Enamel would be what I'd do now
> 
> On a side note:
> Cabinet Rescue should really spend a penny on their website
> The kid-friendly cartoons (MS Clip Art) and cheesy graphics aren't inspiring me with confidence in their product
> I certainly wouldn't pay for anything from them


lol...


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## welovepainting

I would be courious to how it holds up, bonds and stain blocks all in one. Truley sounds interesting never heard of anything like it. WE have always used bonding primer and oil finish.


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## Wolverine

Does anyone want to demo it for me? I've got one quart...


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## Humble Abode

I would if I had the time...


Wolvie,

Can you explain some of the chemistry behind it? Is this an epoxy? How is this different from your normal latex or oil enamel?

Is it an oil or latex? 

How, if it dries in 2 hours does it get the proper flow out and leveling that it needs to make cabinets look factory finished?

In short, why would anyone buy this product? I don't want you to sell it but I'm not clear on it's selling points. I guess I'm one of those people who needs more than mere statements....


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## Wolverine

> Can you explain some of the chemistry behind it? Is this an epoxy? How is this different from your normal latex or oil enamel?
> 
> Is it an oil or latex?


Remember, this is not MY formulation. My job (should I decide to accept it) is to make something better! I do know that this is a waterborne acrylic... not latex... 



> How, if it dries in 2 hours does it get the proper flow out and leveling that it needs to make cabinets look factory finished?


This claim still remains to be seen... 



> In short, why would anyone buy this product? I don't want you to sell it but I'm not clear on it's selling points. I guess I'm one of those people who needs more than mere statements....


According to their website... you only need to rough up the cabinets with 220 sandpaper... then... one coat!


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## Wolverine

Ok Everyone...

welovepainting has stepped up to be the 'product tester' or did he say testes... lol...

So, we'll post up what is good and bad about this product. 

Now, a couple of you have posted up some recommendations...



> Sand/BIN/Waterborne Enamel would be what I'd do now


How much sanding do you do? Is it one coat of BIN and one coat of Waterborne Enamel? Which Waterborne enamel do you use?



> WE have always used bonding primer and oil finish.


Which products? What do you do for prep?

Last, when you think about the process you use, the products you use, the time it takes, and the results you get... what do you would change? 

It seems that I hear alot of painters say they hate doing cabinets. Is there even a need for a better solution that what is out there? Should we call it PaintTalk Cabinet Medic lol...


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## welovepainting

Wolverine said:


> I do know that this is a waterborne acrylic... not latex... !


Whats the difference btween waterborne acylic.... and latex?


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## slickshift

Wolverine said:


> How much sanding do you do? Is it one coat of BIN and one coat of Waterborne Enamel? Which Waterborne enamel do you use?


The Complete Editon:


slickshift said:


> The Ideal Cabinet Repaint:
> 
> Clean with ammonia/water solution
> Let dry
> 
> Sand with 180
> This is to "rough up" the surface, not sand it off
> Wipe with Tack Cloth
> 
> Prime with a white-pigmented shellac based primer*
> (Use a disposable brush and take precautions
> Plenty of fresh air and a respirator are good ideas when working with shellac)
> Let dry
> 
> Sand with 180
> This is a light sanding to smooth out the shellac a bit
> Wipe with tack cloth
> 
> Paint first coat, using a good quality oil-based enamel, or a quality waterborne enamel, using the a good quality proper type brush (oil/water-based prefer different kinds of brushes)
> Let dry over night
> 
> Lightly sand with 220
> Wipe with tack cloth
> 
> Second coat quality oil based enamel, or a quality waterborne enamel, also with a proper brush
> 
> Enjoy beautiful cabinets
> …and the long-lasting durable finish you applied yourself
> 
> *If the cabinets are in good shape, and not too dark, a quality oil-based (alkyd) primer may be used for priming (and TSP for cleaning)
> I suggest a shellac because it works on just about any surface, dark, light, wood, laminate, bare wood, stained wood, polyurethane-ed wood, pickled wood, previously oil-based or latex painted wood, and even the questionable surfaces like inexpensive “paper” laminates if the surface is prepped and the shellac applied carefully
> It’s also your best bet for plastic or melamine type surfaces
> 
> If the cabinets are known to have a quality, properly adhering, latex or waterborne finish in good shape, the primer step could be skipped if the surface was scuff sanded well-but it would still be better to do the step and use a quality water based enamel undercoating as a primer.
> 
> ________________________________






Wolverine said:


> It seems that I hear alot of painters say they hate doing cabinets. Is there even a need for a better solution that what is out there? Should we call it PaintTalk Cabinet Medic lol...


Huh...not me...I love it
This process works great
The only thing is when a customer want a baked on epoxy or powder coated look
Doesn't happen often for cabinet re-paints, but occasionally
Personally I like some brushmarks, but not everyone agrees
Lol


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## Runamuk

I have never used this product though it sounds promising. I noticed that it said nothing about airless sprayer application which I found rather odd. I also don't like the 2 hour dry time.

I currently use Breakthrough for all of my cabinet work. It dries sandable like lacquer in about an hour and is as hard as a baked on enamel when fully cured. It touches up easily also.

Rick


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## Wolverine

Do you have link for 'breakthrough'?


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## Runamuk

Wolverine said:


> Do you have link for 'breakthrough'?


Not yet but I'm working on it

Rick


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## Runamuk

http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/product-compint-0000528401-page.html

Break-through is manufactured by them. Despite their poor marketing of the product it is one of the best that I have used! "You'll have to call them for a dealer near you" I was told.

Rick


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## Kioki

Hey Wolverine,
I remember customers wanting White lacquered cabinets and after totally setting up my equipment for lacquer (water traps everywhere on system) and doing the job, I found that the White lacquer would always yellow after time. With that said, let me suggest another, much better method. To do a truly custom job it is best to take off all cabinet doors and remove cabinet drawers and do them flat on sawhorses, buckets or what have you. After cleaning them properly and using a pigmented shellac primer and sanding lightly as mentioned in previous posts, get yourself a 4/13 double orifice tip for your airless. Believe me, I used a Devilbiss conventional gun for years but with the double orifice tip your results will be 95% as good, faster, far less overspray and you won't have to visqueen yourself in a room. Using a high quality interior latex paint, the sheen of choice, spray all doors and drawers on one side, I always start the backsides first, let dry at least 7hrs. then do the front sides, let dry for 24 hrs., clean your line and tip thoroughly or use a separate line, then do three coasts of water based clear over the entire project. The new water based clears do not tend to yellow, but it is always advisable to test on a back side first. This system gives a truly "look into" surface and the clear coats will take the beating of fingernails etc., while the color coat stays nice. You can do the cabinet stiles by hand or by spray depending on the amount of masking you want to do.
The real secret here is the double orifice tip on your airless and the clear coats.
Hope this helps you out,
Kioki


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## cole191919

Interesting Kioki. I have never used a double orifice tip. Although after researching it, it sounds promising and the way you describe it sounds nice. I might have to try your process out. 

What kind of clear coat do you use?


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## sage

Interesting product. I will look forward to the test results.

I didn't like the idea of waiting 72 hours before reapplying hardware.

Says not to use shellac, it may cause finish to crack.

I bet the stuff is as think as bubble gum.
I may have read too fast but did it mention not yellowing?

I kept expecting to see "As seen on TV" posted on the site.
Sage


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## johnpaint

Kioki:What brand clear coat?


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## johnpaint

Is that the one that goes on milky and turn clear?


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## wantpjw

*ninja painter*

ha Kiokii like the way you think how fast can u mask? and where do you live?and do you work for your self? wanna chat? let me know [email protected]


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## ProWallGuy

wantpjw said:


> ha Kiokii like the way you think how fast can u mask? and where do you live?and do you work for your self? wanna chat? let me know [email protected]


You forgot to ask what he/she was wearing. :laughing:


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## Damon T

the fine finish tips (double atomizing) end in even #'s, i.e. 4-12, 3-10 etc. I may have to try the clear finish on top, though I've had good luck lately just using top quality 100% acrylic coatings (BM Aura and SW Proclassic). 
Any waterborne clear will look milky at first, and then dry clear. BM makes a good one, I'm sure most makers have one. 
I spray the cabinet doors using a "bakers rack" that I built several of for our shop. It's great pulling out a shelf, putting it on the work table, shooting it in seconds, and placing back on the rack. You can hold 20 doors in a rack that takes up 4.5 SF of floor space. I guess that tip should go in the painters tip thread.


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