# Enamel vs Lacquer for cabinets



## cortezv60

Hello all, just wanted to know what everyone uses for cabinets. Why do you prefer the one or the other? Pros and cons of enamel vs lacquer for cabinets. Durability and protection are mainly at what I’m curious about.


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## Joe67

Do a search. It's like asking people about their favorite paint brush.


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## MikeCalifornia

Using Envirolak polyurethane for cabinets. They have a w/b primer that you can add a hardener too for massive adhesion to old finishes, better than BIN.


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## cortezv60

MikeCalifornia said:


> Using Envirolak polyurethane for cabinets. They have a w/b primer that you can add a hardener too for massive adhesion to old finishes, better than BIN.


Better than BIN?! Will definitely look into that 👍🏻 Always good to hear from you Mike.


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## fromthenorthwest

I used to use PPG 250 breakthrough but we've been using scuff-x lately. Breakthrough is great but for me the spraying is quite a bit easier with the scuff X, mostly just less runny..ive been curious about some of the newer 2k waterborne stuff but havent tried yet. A cabinet maker i know told me they've pretty much tried it all and prefer the breakthrough even over the 2k's, partly due to some of the accessibility being a bit of a PITA.


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## MikeCalifornia

cortezv60 said:


> Better than BIN?! Will definitely look into that 👍🏻 Always good to hear from you Mike.


Its the 170 primer, then you add the hardener. You don't have to, but its premium adhesion on old coatings like BIN. W/B too.


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## Masterwork

MikeCalifornia said:


> Its the 170 primer, then you add the hardener. You don't have to, but its premium adhesion on old coatings like BIN. W/B too.


How does it sand ?


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## Packard

fromthenorthwest said:


> I used to use PPG 250 breakthrough but we've been using scuff-x lately. Breakthrough is great but for me the spraying is quite a bit easier with the scuff X, mostly just less runny..ive been curious about some of the newer 2k waterborne stuff but havent tried yet. A cabinet maker i know told me they've pretty much tried it all and prefer the breakthrough even over the 2k's, partly due to some of the accessibility being a bit of a PITA.


I used Breakthrough! 250 for a few years for my custom cabinet business. The local PPG dealer could not survive the Covid 19 pandemic business loss and closed. So I switched to Benjamin Moore's Advance. It sprays out nice and I particularly like the satin finish. But it does not seem to cure as hard as the Breakthrough! Is it my imagination? Or should I drive the extra 30 miles to get the Breakthrough!?

I would note that the other dealer of Breakthrough! has a four gallon minimum and sometimes that is more than I want to buy. The PPG dealer will sell me exactly the amount I need. Also there is a 2 week wait to get Breakthough 250. Breakthrough 50 is available from stock, but is not recommended for cabinet work.


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## cocomonkeynuts

Packard said:


> I used Breakthrough! 250 for a few years for my custom cabinet business. The local PPG dealer could not survive the Covid 19 pandemic business loss and closed. So I switched to Benjamin Moore's Advance. It sprays out nice and I particularly like the satin finish. But it does not seem to cure as hard as the Breakthrough! Is it my imagination? Or should I drive the extra 30 miles to get the Breakthrough!?
> 
> I would note that the other dealer of Breakthrough! has a four gallon minimum and sometimes that is more than I want to buy. The PPG dealer will sell me exactly the amount I need. Also there is a 2 week wait to get Breakthough 250. Breakthrough 50 is available from stock, but is not recommended for cabinet work.


Have your BM dealer get you some corotech command


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## Packard

cocomonkeynuts said:


> corotech command


Will it level like the Advance? Is there any issue spraying with HVLP equipment? I am not a painter by trade. I am a custom cabinet maker who supplies painted cabinets to customers. (Though some will paint them on-site after installation).

For that reason I like to learn how to use one type of finish and stick with it. I only changed from Breakthrough! because the vendor went out of business. I like the appearance of Advance satin better than Breakthrough!, but it does seem softer than Breakthrough!. 

I will check with my B-M dealer (which is a very large hardware store with several branches and not a paint-specific vendor) and see if they can get the Corotech Command. Some of the satellite stores are paint specific but still, not as knowledgeable as the PPG dealer used to be.

Thanks for the information.


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## cocomonkeynuts

Packard said:


> Will it level like the Advance? Is there any issue spraying with HVLP equipment? I am not a painter by trade. I am a custom cabinet maker who supplies painted cabinets to customers. (Though some will paint them on-site after installation).
> 
> For that reason I like to learn how to use one type of finish and stick with it. I only changed from Breakthrough! because the vendor went out of business. I like the appearance of Advance satin better than Breakthrough!, but it does seem softer than Breakthrough!.
> 
> I will check with my B-M dealer (which is a very large hardware store with several branches and not a paint-specific vendor) and see if they can get the Corotech Command. Some of the satellite stores are paint specific but still, not as knowledgeable as the PPG dealer used to be.
> 
> Thanks for the information.


Its not available everywhere yet due to VOC laws. No issue spraying HVLP, its ready to spray out of the can depending on your equipment. It levels nicely and hardens up light years faster than advance. Also I prefer cabinetcoat over advance. If I want to use a slow drying product like advance I would just use the real thing ie *impervo *and not a water based imitation.


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## Packard

My local dealer carries Corrotech Command. They only have 2 gallons of satin in stock but all the gloss I could want. And they have more satin on order.

I will stop by and pickup a gallon and do a side by side comparison with the Advance in the same tint. It should be interesting.


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## monarchski

Packard said:


> My local dealer carries Corrotech Command. They only have 2 gallons of satin in stock but all the gloss I could want. And they have more satin on order.
> 
> I will stop by and pickup a gallon and do a side by side comparison with the Advance in the same tint. It should be interesting.


Great product. Give it a quick light sand after the first coat dries. I was getting some fine pinholeing on my second coat but it stopped when I started scuffing it up a little before the second coat.


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## mDUB562

I like Kem Aqua Plus (the plus is important). It is fast drying and smooth like lacquer without the smells and holds up better to water exposure.


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## 3rdgenpaint

Usually for me it’s always a good bet to do a light sand, coat with stix primer and use Cabinet Coat as a top coat. This set up is ideal for already semi polyurethaned cabinet and for when you don’t want to go to town on the sanding.


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## fromthenorthwest

Packard said:


> I used Breakthrough! 250 for a few years for my custom cabinet business. The local PPG dealer could not survive the Covid 19 pandemic business loss and closed. So I switched to Benjamin Moore's Advance. It sprays out nice and I particularly like the satin finish. But it does not seem to cure as hard as the Breakthrough! Is it my imagination? Or should I drive the extra 30 miles to get the Breakthrough!?
> 
> I would note that the other dealer of Breakthrough! has a four gallon minimum and sometimes that is more than I want to buy. The PPG dealer will sell me exactly the amount I need. Also there is a 2 week wait to get Breakthough 250. Breakthrough 50 is available from stock, but is not recommended for cabinet work.


Yes the advance is a very slow drying and curing product. I have not tried the Command yet, but my understanding is that supposed to be very similar to Breakthrough 250. My local dealer recently got some in and I'm excited to try it out. If Coco recommends it that's alwsys a good sign..


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## cocomonkeynuts

fromthenorthwest said:


> Yes the advance is a very slow drying and curing product. I have not tried the Command yet, but my understanding is that supposed to be very similar to Breakthrough 250. My local dealer recently got some in and I'm excited to try it out. If Coco recommends it that's alwsys a good sign..


Just used 20 gallons for exterior doors on a motel in ruby red. Its not a fussy product like breakthrough either, it sprays easy from hvlp or airless


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## finishesbykevyn

I've sprayed a few things with the new "Command", but found it very fussy. Got a lot of fish eyes. It doesn't seem to play well with BIN. Better over the Stix. I was was all excited about the Stock black, but when I rolled a test sample it dried with a very course texture/chunkies or something. Super weird. Which is too bad, because I was really looking forward to it. And for the OP, spraying with lacquers is a whole different ball game. Assuming your talking traditional lacquer. Either way, it would be spray application only. So keep that in mind. Also will have a maximum film thickness. I still use Advance because it's just so damn easy to use and basically all I can get around here...Hopefully Command works out all the little bugs.


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## cocomonkeynuts

finishesbykevyn said:


> I've sprayed a few things with the new "Command", but found it very fussy. Got a lot of fish eyes. It doesn't seem to play well with BIN. Better over the Stix. I was was all excited about the Stock black, but when I rolled a test sample it dried with a very course texture/chunkies or something. Super weird. Which is too bad, because I was really looking forward to it. And for the OP, spraying with lacquers is a whole different ball game. Assuming your talking traditional lacquer. Either way, it would be spray application only. So keep that in mind. Also will have a maximum film thickness. I still use Advance because it's just so damn easy to use and basically all I can get around here...Hopefully Command works out all the little bugs.


Ive only used bronzetone and a deep base red, didn't experience any fisheye. I dont use BIN for hardly anything in fact I don't even carry it in my store.


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## Packard

I read the press release from B-M. It says it can be rolled, brushed, or sprayed; it had tenacious (their word) adhesion and no primer is required; it goes over metal, wood, concrete and resin (platic); it is indoor and outdoor approved and can be used for flooring paint and it can be applied in temperatures to 30 degrees Farhenheit. In other words, it can do everything everywhere under every condition (maybe it can take care of my plumbing problems too.).

I'm always a bit leery of any product that makes overly broad claims (sounds like a snake oil salesman), but based on recommendations here I have bought one gallon and I will try it later this week. 

Thanks for the input.


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## connieb1128

cortezv60 said:


> Hello all, just wanted to know what everyone uses for cabinets. Why do you prefer the one or the other? Pros and cons of enamel vs lacquer for cabinets. Durability and protection are mainly at what I’m curious about.


As a professional painter my most favorite cabinet paints are Wise Owl One Hour Enamel along with Wise Owl Primer (stain blocking primer) (No topcoat required..dries in one hour, cures in 7 days, Ben Moore Cabinet Coat and Ben Moore Advanced (8 to 10 ours dry time in between coats) but does a nice job. Just watch for drips. Used with a ClinOng Brush (they last forever and self cleaning, leaves very little (if any) brush marks. Do not overwork the paint is key. Prep is key as well. Clean. Rinse. Sand to degloss. Prime, Paint.


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## Packard

The nearest Wise Owl dealer is 32 miles from me (about 45 minutes drive time) and is available "by appointment only". So I don't think that will work for me. At that point I would probably go for Fine Paints of Europe. Maybe with wider distribution I would give it a try.


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## connieb1128

Packard said:


> The nearest Wise Owl dealer is 32 miles from me (about 45 minutes drive time) and is available "by appointment only". So I don't think that will work for me. At that point I would probably go for Fine Paints of Europe. Maybe with wider distribution I would give it a try.


Wish I had a dealer near me. 32 miles is not far at all.


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## Packard

I don't think this is a "dealer" as we understand the term. The woman that owns the company hand-paints old furniture for resale. And she uses Wise Owl paints for her furniture. They made her a "dealer" but I suspect she has little or no inventory. The piece shown below is $1,045.00. From reading their website they brush paint everything.

_Chalk it Up Fancy is a mother and daughter-owned furniture restoration business located in Pine Bush, NY. We enjoy the history, detail and quality older furniture brings. It is so rewarding to take unwanted furniture and bring beauty to your special space. Our goal is to create an updated look to appeal to today’s homeowner. 








_


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## cocomonkeynuts

Packard said:


> I read the press release from B-M. It says it can be rolled, brushed, or sprayed; it had tenacious (their word) adhesion and no primer is required; it goes over metal, wood, concrete and resin (platic); it is indoor and outdoor approved and can be used for flooring paint and it can be applied in temperatures to 30 degrees Farhenheit. In other words, it can do everything everywhere under every condition (maybe it can take care of my plumbing problems too.).
> 
> I'm always a bit leery of any product that makes overly broad claims (sounds like a snake oil salesman), but based on recommendations here I have bought one gallon and I will try it later this week.
> 
> Thanks for the input.


Its meant to be a direct replacement for breakthrough 250


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## Packard

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Its meant to be a direct replacement for breakthrough 250


I would think that PPG would make the replacement. 

I would hope this is a good alternative. While I did like the quick dry time from Breakthrough!, Advance seems to spray out better for me (HVLP). Perhaps others with greater skills could get Breakthrough! satin to spray a bit smoother. For me, it always seemed to have a bit of texture. But it was a hard finish.

I will try the Command this week.

P.S.: In case anyone wonders why I add the exclamation mark at the end of "Breakthrough!" it is because that is the actual name of the product. I am not doing it for emphasis.


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## cocomonkeynuts

Packard said:


> I would think that PPG would make the replacement.
> 
> I would hope this is a good alternative. While I did like the quick dry time from Breakthrough!, Advance seems to spray out better for me (HVLP). Perhaps others with greater skills could get Breakthrough! satin to spray a bit smoother. For me, it always seemed to have a bit of texture. But it was a hard finish.
> 
> I will try the Command this week.
> 
> P.S.: In case anyone wonders why I add the exclamation mark at the end of "Breakthrough!" it is because that is the actual name of the product. I am not doing it for emphasis.


Well who the heck knows what PPG is doing with their residential paints lines. I really think they sit in a board room and DGAF about residential.

I have 50 or so shelves to shoot HVLP with command here, I'll post some findings whenever I get around to it.


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## Masterwork

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Well who the heck knows what PPG is doing with their residential paints lines. I really think they sit in a board room and DGAF about residential.
> 
> I have 50 or so shelves to shoot HVLP with command here, I'll post some findings whenever I get around to it.


Pictures too, please. I'm curious to see the finish.


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## finishesbykevyn

Packard said:


> I would think that PPG would make the replacement.
> 
> I would hope this is a good alternative. While I did like the quick dry time from Breakthrough!, Advance seems to spray out better for me (HVLP). Perhaps others with greater skills could get Breakthrough! satin to spray a bit smoother. For me, it always seemed to have a bit of texture. But it was a hard finish.
> 
> I will try the Command this week.
> 
> P.S.: In case anyone wonders why I add the exclamation mark at the end of "Breakthrough!" it is because that is the actual name of the product. I am not doing it for emphasis.


You spraying Advance with an hvlp? Try an airless fflp 308. Flawless.


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## Packard

connieb1128 said:


> Wish I had a dealer near me. 32 miles is not far at all.


I went to their website and found a paintbrush I thought was interesting. I placed an order using my American Express card. The acknowledgment came back showing the payment as being through PayPal. 

I googled that situation and apparently, PayPal will invoice my American Express card for 2.9% of the invoice + $0.30. 

Not much money, but done sub rosa, without my knowledge. This is the first time I have come across this practice. Strange.


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## ttd

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Its not available everywhere yet due to VOC laws. No issue spraying HVLP, its ready to spray out of the can depending on your equipment. It levels nicely and hardens up light years faster than advance. Also I prefer cabinetcoat over advance. If I want to use a slow drying product like advance I would just use the real thing ie *impervo *and not a water based imitation.


Do you prefer cabinet coat for dry time reasons or other advantages? I use primarily cabinet coat, but have considered Advance. I’ve wondered if advance is harder than cabinet coat although CC provides a very hard finish. Thx


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## cocomonkeynuts

ttd said:


> Do you prefer cabinet coat for dry time reasons or other advantages? I use primarily cabinet coat, but have considered Advance. I’ve wondered if advance is harder than cabinet coat although CC provides a very hard finish. Thx


Dry time, cure time is a bonus,plus its stupid easy to use. Even the most novice is painter with a spray gun can make it look perfect.


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## fromthenorthwest

Packard said:


> I would think that PPG would make the replacement.
> 
> I would hope this is a good alternative. While I did like the quick dry time from Breakthrough!, Advance seems to spray out better for me (HVLP). Perhaps others with greater skills could get Breakthrough! satin to spray a bit smoother. For me, it always seemed to have a bit of texture. But it was a hard finish.
> 
> I will try the Command this week.
> 
> P.S.: In case anyone wonders why I add the exclamation mark at the end of "Breakthrough!" it is because that is the actual name of the product. I am not doing it for emphasis.


I was enjoying the the ! after every breakthrough


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## Holland

fromthenorthwest said:


> I was enjoying the the* ! *after every breakthrough


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## Packard

My bad. I left out the hyphen. It should read “Break-Through!”

I just made up some test samples. All, brushed, all satin, all over brushed and sanded 1-2-3.

1. Break-Through! (White, from a previous job.)

2. Command, Simply White

3. Advance, Simply White

I have two coats of Break-Through! down, 4 hours between coats.

I have two coats of Command down, 4 hours between coats.

I have one coat of Advance down, with the second coat in the morning (20 hours)

The Break-Through! dries faster than the Command by about 10 minutes.

How long should I allow them to cure before testing the hardness of the finish?

I am using a Purdy Ox Hair brush for these samples, and it is brand new, this is the first time I’m using it. It has been shedding one or two bristles per sample. I never had that much shedding with a brush before. Is that normal? I am thinking I will have to toss it in the trash. Not a cheap brush either.

I will report my findings when the test is complete. The samples are on maple plywood 3” x 16”.


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## cocomonkeynuts

Packard said:


> My bad. I left out the hyphen. It should read “Break-Through!”
> 
> I just made up some test samples. All, brushed, all satin, all over brushed and sanded 1-2-3.
> 
> 1. Break-Through! (White, from a previous job.)
> 
> 2. Command, Simply White
> 
> 3. Advance, Simply White
> 
> I have two coats of Break-Through! down, 4 hours between coats.
> 
> I have two coats of Command down, 4 hours between coats.
> 
> I have one coat of Advance down, with the second coat in the morning (20 hours)
> 
> The Break-Through! dries faster than the Command by about 10 minutes.
> 
> How long should I allow them to cure before testing the hardness of the finish?
> 
> I am using a Purdy Ox Hair brush for these samples, and it is brand new, this is the first time I’m using it. It has been shedding one or two bristles per sample. I never had that much shedding with a brush before. Is that normal? I am thinking I will have to toss it in the trash. Not a cheap brush either.
> 
> I will report my findings when the test is complete. The samples are on maple plywood 3” x 16”.


Don't use natural bristle for water based products, just use a regular nylon polyester. If you are judging dry times you should be using a wet mil gauge...


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## Packard

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Don't use natural bristle for water based products, just use a regular nylon polyester. If you are judging dry times you should be using a wet mil gauge...


Thanks for that information.


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## finishesbykevyn

Packard said:


> My bad. I left out the hyphen. It should read “Break-Through!”
> 
> I just made up some test samples. All, brushed, all satin, all over brushed and sanded 1-2-3.
> 
> 1. Break-Through! (White, from a previous job.)
> 
> 2. Command, Simply White
> 
> 3. Advance, Simply White
> 
> I have two coats of Break-Through! down, 4 hours between coats.
> 
> I have two coats of Command down, 4 hours between coats.
> 
> I have one coat of Advance down, with the second coat in the morning (20 hours)
> 
> The Break-Through! dries faster than the Command by about 10 minutes.
> 
> How long should I allow them to cure before testing the hardness of the finish?
> 
> I am using a Purdy Ox Hair brush for these samples, and it is brand new, this is the first time I’m using it. It has been shedding one or two bristles per sample. I never had that much shedding with a brush before. Is that normal? I am thinking I will have to toss it in the trash. Not a cheap brush either.
> 
> I will report my findings when the test is complete. The samples are on maple plywood 3” x 16”.


I would say for personal satisfaction you could do a finger nail test after 24,48,72 hours. The real test will be after full cure of 20-30 days.


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## Packard

I really want to compare the Advance, which dries slowly and the Command, which dries much faster. At what point will I have meaningful results?

Re: Wet Mil gage. I thought that was just to determine how thick the paint is before it dries. I was just noting that the Break-Through! seemed to dry quicker than Command.


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## Masterwork

You'll be waiting months for Advance to harden. Especially in darker colours. I don't understand why so many guys on here use it.


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## Packard

This is white. I would deliver the cabinets within one week of painting. I would not have room for the next job if I sat on it longer than that. So I will give it 7 day’s maximum.

My reason for trying Command was because a set of emerald green cabinets did not seem hard enough when I delivered them. No call back and a sample I kept eventually did get hard.


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## cocomonkeynuts

Packard said:


> I really want to compare the Advance, which dries slowly and the Command, which dries much faster. At what point will I have meaningful results?
> 
> Re: Wet Mil gage. I thought that was just to determine how thick the paint is before it dries. I was just noting that the Break-Through! seemed to dry quicker than Command.


Dry time is directly related to how thick the film is ie 3mil will dry faster than vs 4 mil


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## fromthenorthwest

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Well who the heck knows what PPG is doing with their residential paints lines. I really think they sit in a board room and DGAF about residential.
> 
> I have 50 or so shelves to shoot HVLP with command here, I'll post some findings whenever I get around to it.


 So unless tannin bleed were a factor would you suggest skipping the primer if using Command? I think i remember you saying it has better adhesion than most primers. That'd sure make the workflow efficient.


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## finishesbykevyn

Masterwork said:


> You'll be waiting months for Advance to harden. Especially in darker colours. I don't understand why so many guys on here use it.


For light to medium tone colours its fantastic. It certainly does NOT take months to harden. It's also all I can get around my parts. The stock black is pretty good too. What are you using.? What I really like about it, is the open time when backrolling the honey oak cabinets. It levels and melts back into itself so nicely. For straight up spray jobs, I wish I had better access to products like Milesi etc. Had high hopes for the Command, but not sold on it just yet..although the re-coat time is very impressive.


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## Masterwork

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Dry time is directly related to how thick the film is ie 3mil will dry faster than vs 4 mil


For the same product, yes, but not when comparing two different paints. 5 Mil of one paint could dry faster than 3 Mil of another paint.


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## cocomonkeynuts

Masterwork said:


> For the same product, yes, but not when comparing two different paints. 5 Mil of one paint could dry faster than 3 Mil of another paint.


Yes exactly thats why if you want to accurately compare dry times of two or more coatings you should control for wet film thickness...


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## Packard

I did note that the viscosity of the Break-Through! was considerably lower and much more watery than the other paints. That quite naturally meant less coating thickness and quicker drying times. 

Logically, it would fare less well when painting over an open pore wood like oak, allowing more of that texture to telegraph through the finish.


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## Packard

But we are professionals. I had two questions that I hope to answer with my comparison test.

1. How long it takes for a reasonable cure for Advance vs. Command.
2. How does it look.

For satin finish I think Advance looks better that my previous choice of Break-Through! which I abandoned when the dealer went out of business.

I will allow both the Command and the Advance 7 days to cure and then I will compare.


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## irishjim21

Suprised no one in here is shooting real finishes. I stickly spray post cat conversion varnish. Why? Because it is the best cabinet finish period. Only down side is smell. Ive tried all the WB and they dont hold up as well as solvant. 

I use ML Campbell


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## stelzerpaintinginc.

irishjim21 said:


> Suprised no one in here is shooting real finishes. I stickly spray post cat conversion varnish. Why? Because it is the best cabinet finish period. Only down side is smell. Ive tried all the WB and they dont hold up as well as solvant.
> 
> I use ML Campbell


-4 years ago you introduced yourself as a full-time remodeler and cabinet builder. You said you were using Pro-Classic Acrylic Alkyd, trying to improve your spraying skills, and asked for tips on spraying lacquer.
-2 years ago you asked questions about how to get a good finish out of turbines.
-Last year you said asked about spraying cv through your AAA.
-This year you have it all figured out and are surprised that you're the only person here shooting "real" finishes, and the finish you spray is the "best cabinet finish period".

*Do you have any idea how silly that sounds?*

There are hundreds of full-time finishers on this forum with 30 + years of experience...who are continually trying to improve their process. Folks testing new products every chance they get, yet you think you're the only one shooting "real finishes"? Come on partner. 

I don't disagree with CV being an excellent cabinet finish. I don't have anything negative to say about the products you're using, and I'm glad you've found something that works for you. But please don't be another one of those guys who claims their way is the only way, and their way is the best way, especially since there's probably so much that you've never done or tried. *It really should be good enough to just offer up your opinion of what you feel is the best product without trying to belittle others to assert your superiority.*


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## irishjim21

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> -4 years ago you introduced yourself as a full-time remodeler and cabinet builder. You said you were using Pro-Classic Acrylic Alkyd, trying to improve your spraying skills, and asked for tips on spraying lacquer.
> -2 years ago you asked questions about how to get a good finish out of turbines.
> -Last year you said asked about spraying cv through your AAA.
> -This year you have it all figured out and are surprised that you're the only person here shooting "real" finishes, and the finish you spray is the "best cabinet finish period".
> 
> *Do you have any idea how silly that sounds?*
> 
> There are hundreds of full-time finishers on this forum with 30 + years of experience...who are continually trying to improve their process. Folks testing new products every chance they get, yet you think you're the only one shooting "real finishes"? Come on partner.
> 
> I don't disagree with CV being an excellent cabinet finish. I don't have anything negative to say about the products you're using, and I'm glad you've found something that works for you. But please don't be another one of those guys who claims their way is the only way, and their way is the best way, especially since there's probably so much that you've never done or tried. *It really should be good enough to just offer up your opinion of what you feel is the best product without trying to belittle others to assert your superiority.*





stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> -4 years ago you introduced yourself as a full-time remodeler and cabinet builder. You said you were using Pro-Classic Acrylic Alkyd, trying to improve your spraying skills, and asked for tips on spraying lacquer.
> -2 years ago you asked questions about how to get a good finish out of turbines.
> -Last year you said asked about spraying cv through your AAA.
> -This year you have it all figured out and are surprised that you're the only person here shooting "real" finishes, and the finish you spray is the "best cabinet finish period".
> 
> *Do you have any idea how silly that sounds?*
> 
> There are hundreds of full-time finishers on this forum with 30 + years of experience...who are continually trying to improve their process. Folks testing new products every chance they get, yet you think you're the only one shooting "real finishes"? Come on partner.
> 
> I don't disagree with CV being an excellent cabinet finish. I don't have anything negative to say about the products you're using, and I'm glad you've found something that works for you. But please don't be another one of those guys who claims their way is the only way, and their way is the best way, especially since there's probably so much that you've never done or tried. *It really should be good enough to just offer up your opinion of what you feel is the best product without trying to belittle others to assert your superiority.*


Youre 100% right. Could be alot more humble about it. And yes, ive had questions in the past, and unfortunately had to be all self taught as no one had any good information for me or advice. However, I have been building and remodeling, and cabinet building for 17 years and do know a thing or two. But yes, it does shock me how many full time painters know so little about wood finishing. Most of my hostility is stemmed from arguments in facebook which I get sucked into way to easily, and is not the same vibe on this forum and don't mean to bring it here. 

I do however wish I had skipped all my trial and error and started with a good air driven aaa pump and CV, because after trying just about everything, I do feel is one of the best cabinet and wood finishes available, ill just be nicer about it next time. Thanks for calling me out.


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## StateLinePainters

Technogod said:


> This is my story when i begin wood finishing maybe almost 2 decades ago.Live and learn


Are you spraying CV for refinishing the frames in occupied homes?


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## cocomonkeynuts

StateLinePainters said:


> Are you spraying CV for refinishing the frames in occupied homes?


Some of the newer WB polys are 1K/2K meaning you can catalyze the material for doors in your shop and use the same material uncatayzed for the boxes or anything else in place.


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## Woodco

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Some of the newer WB polys are 1K/2K meaning you can catalyze the material for doors in your shop and use the same material uncatayzed for the boxes or anything else in place.


Are the waterborne polys toxic when adding the catalyst?


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## cocomonkeynuts

Woodco said:


> Are the waterborne polys toxic when adding the catalyst?


Depends on the catalyst used, centurion makes different products for example and its the isocyanate catalyst that is super toxic. They also have an polyazidirine catalyst that is less toxic. some products can be used uncatalyzed.
For example:
1107 2K primer: Must be catalyzed with CW-4002 Isocyanate
Natural Look 2K: Must be catalyzed with CW-4002 Isocyanate
2800 series clear and pigmented urethane: Can be used with either Isocynate or polyazidirine or no catalyst at all.

Straight from the can the 2800 is already far superior to cabinet coat in every category. application, look, feel and hardness. The isocyanate catalyst adds a lot of solids and it becomes extremely hard like solvent conversion varnish with none of the drawbacks of a typical lacquer system. By the way it also sands to a powder.

Also I have brushed out some larger panels recently. It brushes great actually but it sets up pretty quick so you have to get it in one go. Not a lot of open time to keep working the material.


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## StateLinePainters

Woodco said:


> Are the waterborne polys toxic when adding the catalyst?





https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg388.pdf



Here is a link to paint safety for isocyanate paint spraying. I have been doing a little research after watching people on youtube rave about 2k products. Many small exposures over a long period of time can lead to serious consequences. Personally, I will not be using them until I have a supplied air respirator system in my shop. And then I haven't figured out a procedure for spraying in people's homes.

I'm considering buying a *3M™ Versaflo™ Powered Air Purifying Respirator Heavy Industry Kit TR-800-HIK *for on site work. I tend to be over safe sometimes, but isocyanates do not seem like something to mess with.


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## cocomonkeynuts

StateLinePainters said:


> https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg388.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a link to paint safety for isocyanate paint spraying. I have been doing a little research after watching people on youtube rave about 2k products. Many small exposures over a long period of time can lead to serious consequences. Personally, I will not be using them until I have a supplied air respirator system in my shop. And then I haven't figured out a procedure for spraying in people's homes.
> 
> I'm considering buying a *3M™ Versaflo™ Powered Air Purifying Respirator Heavy Industry Kit TR-800-HIK *for on site work. I tend to be over safe sometimes, but isocyanates do not seem like something to mess with.


Procedure for spraying in place would be everyone leaves the jobsite including HO. Or use the hybrid products uncatalyzed.
Personally I don't think its any different than if we were going to do an epoxy floor or customer requests precat lacquer in place or someone wants high gloss oil walls. Just be safe.


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