# Benjamin Moore Complaints?



## PaintMe201 (Sep 16, 2009)

I'm new to this and I noticed all the Benjamin Moore bashing on here. Was wondering how high Benjamin Moore is priced in your neck of the woods, cause around me they stand toe to toe with the sherwin williams, ppg, etc.


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

nosebleed high


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## PaintMe201 (Sep 16, 2009)

interesting... what do you think about the price being different in every ben moore store.. to the consistent price of sherwin williams?


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

You need to talk to your rep, because their ripping you off.


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

What Ben Moore bashing? I use it almost 100%.
And who cares about the price, isn't the customer paying for?


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

We use mostly Benjamin Moore.

No complaints, they make good paint.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

ProWallGuy said:


> What Ben Moore bashing? I use it almost 100%.
> And who cares about the price, isn't the customer paying for?


 
Yes, it is also mostly all I use also and I don't pay a cent for any of it, I actually make some gas money.:yes:


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## slickshift (Apr 8, 2007)

BM is mostly carried by Independent Dealers (*all *except for a few unprofitable markets)....the dealers set the prices

I've noticed, at least in the NE US that there is *no real appreciative difference in cost when comparing apples to apples*

In fact, many BM dealers have much better Contractor Prices on many/most items

But I have noticed a huge difference when it comes to "discounts"
What I mean is, SW company-owned stores do tend to over-price their sundries, and make up for that by offering "huge discounts" (off "retail prices") for contractors
By that I mean that the "great" 30% discount on a respirator at SW is basically equal to the "measly" 10% discount at an independant BM dealer due to the "retail" pricing structure
...but the SW resp. is over-priced to begin with
In reality, you pay about the same

That, and the fact that SW has many more "cheap paint" lines (as opposed to the Good/Better/Best line-up of BM) leads many to believe (and that is the point of SW marketing these things this way) that SW is cheaper the BM

***The Exception
Spray equipment
SW's company owned stores often sell Sprayers at cost
They figure they will make it up in (lower quality but over-priced...then highly discounted) "cheap" (ie: builder/contractor) Paint Sales
It works
Many/Most Independent BM Dealers won't even bother with sprayers
They realize that rather then try and match prices they would be better off just handing you $20 or $40 and telling you to move along
In this regard alone, the mind is set among many a Paint Contractor that BM is more expensive than SW
It's not accurate/true...but in many cases Marketing is more valuable than truth


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## ParagonVA (Feb 3, 2009)

Ben Moore is definitely the highest around here, but mostly due to the Aura line. Regal and below is fairly comparable to other companies' higher lines. For example, PoClassic semi is identical in price to Regal semi. All my material costs are factored into the job, so no worries for me. I do complain though if it doesn't perform the way it should, but mostly I think certain products are definitely worth the higher cost.

My main store, Potomac Paint, will match prices from other Ben Moore dealers with a receipt. That's how they get me to keep coming back. However, most stores are usually within a few bucks of each other.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Well, some of you guy's think you are not paying for the high price, but you are. Don't fool yourself.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Sherwin williams is about the same price as BM for me here, for comparable lines that I use.


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

johnpaint said:


> Well, some of you guy's think you are not paying for the high price, but you are. Don't fool yourself.


I don't understand this. I don't finance anyone's job, nor do I buy the materials for anyone's job. In fact, I always profit from my materials. How am I paying for the high price?


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Because if (hypothetically) SuperPaint Cost less then Regal and was an equivalent or better product, you might save $2/gallon. This would provide two options:

1. You could profit an additional $2/gall if the price you sold at was what you would have sold the project for regardless.
2. You could provide the same job for $2/gallon cheaper than your BM competitor and win more bids!

It is all hypothetical though at since most contractors probably have bigger variances in their pricing that would be the result of a small price difference between Super Paint and Regal.


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

I kind of see what you mean, but the materials portion of my price is so low compared to the labor, I don't think a dollar or two or even five per gallon would really make much of a difference. 

I also look at it this way, if I bounce around using different products trying to save a buck or two, I would probably lose that in production time as we are used to using tried and true products on our jobs. We are familiar with how they spread and perform so why vary from that? 

I guess it boils down to the fact that I spec the products, they are usually well-known top line products, and I mark the cost up. I see no reason to shop around at this point, especially to save a buck or two.

I'm starting to ramble....


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

ProWallGuy said:


> I don't understand this. I don't finance anyone's job, nor do I buy the materials for anyone's job. In fact, I always profit from my materials. How am I paying for the high price?


I think what Deanv said is it in a nut shell, but that is for a modest 2 bucks a gallon less, it's more like 1/3 third less around here for me, but the main thing is it could make you have to charge two or three hundred more on a four thousand dollar paint job.Either you will have to eat that, or raise your price so you can pay for the special BM paint. Either way it will end up working against you, besides BM is really not (that) much better than SW, or PL,PPG.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I agree with you PWG. I am happy with the BM dealer I go to. Every once in a while, I feel like I should check out the SW store (they are both close by, shoot, there is a SW and another independent paint store within 2 miles of the BM dealer I go to). I get probably 95% of my stuff from the BM dealer.

Edit: I doubt that the equivalent SW product is 1/3 cheaper. I have not seen that big of a difference.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

"I also look at it this way, if I bounce around using different products trying to save a buck or two, I would probably lose that in production time as we are used to using tried and true products on our jobs. We are familiar with how they spread and perform so why vary from that"?

Pro Wall this is very true


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

slickshift said:


> BM is mostly carried by Independent Dealers (*all *except for a few unprofitable markets)....the dealers set the prices
> 
> I've noticed, at least in the NE US that there is *no real appreciative difference in cost when comparing apples to apples*
> 
> ...


Well then, I'm just going to start buying behr paint, now that you shed the light on that deal. 
.
Seriously tho. My prices on my sw paint & sundries is and has been always better than any sale prices. I never even look at their sale flyers they hand out.
.
BM is good paint but not $30-$50 a gal good. I remember when I bought my 1st gal of Aura semi gloss. The manager asked me if I ever used BM. I said "no" he then started to tell me how I was going to love it and blah, blah, blah. So I was excited to get to use it. After I payed 40 bucks for a gal. and completed the job. My thought were this. I can get a product that would produce the same or even better, at my Vista Paint store for more than half the price. My opinion on BM is it's not worth what it cost. 
.
I am amazed at the prices you fools pay for paint. It like you just walk in to get your paint and pay whatever it rings up at. If you complain to the manager, you might get 5% or maybe 10. But, still over priced. Do you guys even utilize your sales rep? Ya, go ahead and pass the over priced paint to you costumer after all that what they would pay if they just walked in off the street.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

"I am amazed at the prices you fools pay for paint. It like you just walk in to get your paint and pay whatever it rings up at. If you complain to the manager, you might get 5% or maybe 10. But, still over priced. Do you guys even utilize your sales rep? Ya, go ahead and pass the over priced paint to you costumer after all that what they would pay if they just walked in off the street".

How dare you say that on here. I feel that is very sacreligious.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

It's funny but I would feel good to found out my competition was using BM paint.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

BM Aura is really pretty unique stuff. I highly doubt it compares to any paint half the price anywhere. You may not like it, but it does offer some stuff other paint does not.

Maybe this falls into those regional differences. I have heard in California from my Benjamin Moore Rep that cheap paint like Super Hide sells to high end jobs, casinos, etc. Here, that stuff is for ceilings and garages only at best.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Dean, say someone painted two rooms just alike, one with BM, and one with SW superpaint or whatever. You only saw the rooms after they were completed. Would you be able to tell, just by looking which was which?


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

johnpaint said:


> How dare you say that on here. I feel that is very sacreligious.


What? You think they have good prices?


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

Well not that I have to defend my point of view.. but when they are trying to sell me Aurora for $56.00 for exterior.. it _kinda_ takes me out of the "affordable" paint job price range. I am not spending that kind of money on paint to be added into the estimate. 

It is bad enough getting Duration for 43.00/gal. I JUST spoke with my SW rep 2 days ago *monday* about the price and why so much. Sorry but if I need 17gal of paint that IS a chunk of money, and not many people are willing to foot the bill on it.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

But again, compare apples to apples. So Aura is too much, step it down a notch and you are in SuperPaint land or at least between superpaint and Duration. Maybe near Cashmere. What I do not like about SW interior is only Duration has a matte and I do not like Duration interior. Cashmere is far too shiny for walls in low lustre, Super Paint is a true flat and eggshell on up (I believe, unless they do not have an eggshell even).

I consider the ProMar and Super Spec lines to be blah.

With Aura, I find I do get a better final appearance. I do not use it on every job though. When I try to sell it, it is on the washability and the ColorLock which benefit the customer for interior paint. For exterior, I would focus on the mil thickness of the coating and greater protection, if they are interested in that.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

ewingpainting.net said:


> What? You think they have good prices?


No man: That was a joke. I would not in a million years pay the money they want for BM paint.If you put that stuff in an unmarked can no one would be able to tell the difference between it, and other top line products anyway.I have done some of my own testing and you would not believe what paints worked out better than some others.People get use to a certain paint, and they learn how to make it work, then you are surprised that the paint you thought was so good, turned out just average.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

My B/M complaints:


lousy service
I get twice the price break from my local "independant contractor type store"
Half the employees act like you are stinking up the place.
In this dollar conscious economy, I need to save every dollar to be competitive.
Several stores are owned by a large local paint contractor.
No support. (do they even have reps?)
One store has a "pay to play" system.
They do make nice products, but so does everyone else. Why not go where you are respected, supported and deal with a place that is interested in YOUR business. Don't get that from the B/M dealers here. 

Although I think B/M as a company, is interested in helping contractors, our dealer network leaves a lot to be desired. Like them or not, I find S/W to be overall more in tune to contractor wants and needs. Being company owned stores has the advantage of providing similar pricing and service wherever you go.


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## PaintMe201 (Sep 16, 2009)

so Bikerboy what you are saying is it's the dealers not the paint company? Let's say I have a store with good service, gets you your order where you need it, when you need it, has pricing equal to or better then sw, the employees treat you like a friend, and i could get a rep to you when you have a problem on a job site in a day or 2, would that give you a new perpective on Benjamin Moore Paint?


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

I try my hardest to treat evry customer the same. Regardless if its a guy spending $300 or $30000 a year, they pay the same. Around me the SW stores are hit and miss, same with the BM ones or PPG. Sometimes the service is great, sometimes..... Same with pricing. I agree that having the same price at any store you go to is a big advantage that SW has over me. I can be very competitive with them on pricing, I just cant afford to have locations everywhere. The complaint I get the most about SW is their pricing structure, I still havent figured it out. It seems that everyone has a different price on almost every prodct. I consider that an advantage for me, I dont get customers leaving my store wondering if they overpaid, or if the guy that was before them got a better deal.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Neither does Behr!
However, I am a dissatisfied BM customer.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Behr doesnt try to be competitive. Bottom line, use what YOU like and what works best for YOU. 

If price is your main concern about your products, why is it that so many painters get upset when a potential customer questions THEIR price? Painters want the cheapest product/best deal....sure....but are insulted when a homeowner wants the same.....I dont get it.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> Behr doesnt try to be competitive. Bottom line, use what YOU like and what works best for YOU.
> 
> If price is your main concern about your products, why is it that so many painters get upset when a potential customer questions THEIR price? Painters want the cheapest product/best deal....sure....but are insulted when a homeowner wants the same.....I dont get it.


I think you are kind of getting off a little bit.I can't go to the owner of BM and ask why their price is so high, and there are other things involved besides price of paint.Smoke screen.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

i like SW because they are open all weekend, my BM dealer closes at Sat noon. Some jobs I need to finish on a weekend.

But I had a deck job early summer and needed a gallon of stain to finish thru SW and they were completely out of stock when I needed it. Sales kid said he would get it from a store nearby, and it didn't happen. Had to wait over a week to get one gal of stain to finish this job. Many times I've felt like I don't matter that much at SW. I feel like I matter a bit more at BM, except that there is an old lady that works the counter at BM and she takes forever, and I never can tell if she knows what she is doing, and its like an hour waiting around for crap cuz she has to ask the manager how to do things.... So both places are sort of not that great. 

I get the best service at Diamond Vogel but I'm not familiar with there paint as much and don't really trust the quality as I do with the other two places. They have the best tape though, and I buy sundries there because of it. I don't know, I'm not that satisfied with the dealers in my town.


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

i like that about sw too.


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

so OP are you an employee at a BM?


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## PaintMe201 (Sep 16, 2009)

i think the main difference between the two is the benjamin moore dealers are independant of each other.. and the sherwin williams stores are all company owned. So they have to go by the policies they set. Hours,Price,Look,etc..


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> Behr doesnt try to be competitive.


Neither does BM!
.


NCPaint1 said:


> Bottom line, use what YOU like and what works best for YOU.


I agree!
.


NCPaint1 said:


> If price is your main concern about your products


Shouldn't every business be concerned with price? Isn't BM concerned about price? Price is just one of my concern. There are 4 thing I look for in buying paint from my vendors. 
Price
Quality
Service
Guaranty
Sad to say, but I haven't got any of that from my local BM store. 
I have different product lines. I buy both high end and low end, depends what the job calls for.
.


NCPaint1 said:


> why is it that so many painters get upset when a potential customer questions THEIR price?


I don't get offended at all when a customer questions my price. In fact I think it is great that they would, rather than just going to my competitor. I love to negotiate. 
.


NCPaint1 said:


> Painters want the cheapest product/best deal....sure....but are insulted when a homeowner wants the same.....I dont get it.


 I can only speak for myself. 
I don't look for the cheapest products\best deals. I am pretty loyal to my suppliers. Simply because I have outstanding relationships with my vendors. And that is more valuable to me than cheap products. Because through my relationship I end up getting the best deals.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

bikerboy said:


> [*]Several stores are owned by a large local paint contractor.


This reminds me of a guy I knew once. He owned a paint store that sold pp&g, while being a active paint contractor. For some odd reason he got 90% of the jobs that were speced pp&g. He would get his stuff at cost and charge top dollar to his competitors. PP&G got wind and canceled his contract. The place was shut down less than a year. 
BB I never even thought about the that fact. Makes me even more unwilling to buy their overpriced paint.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

PaintMe201 said:


> so Bikerboy what you are saying is it's the dealers not the paint company? Let's say I have a store with good service, gets you your order where you need it, when you need it, has pricing equal to or better then sw, the employees treat you like a friend, and i could get a rep to you when you have a problem on a job site in a day or 2, would that give you a new perpective on Benjamin Moore Paint?


.
I challenge that.


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## tedrin (Oct 22, 2008)

ewingpainting.net said:


> This reminds me of a guy I knew once. He owned a paint store that sold pp&g, while being a active paint contractor. For some odd reason he got 90% of the jobs that were speced pp&g. He would get his stuff at cost and charge top dollar to his competitors. PP&G got wind and canceled his contract. The place was shut down less than a year.
> BB I never even thought about the that fact. Makes me even more unwilling to buy their overpriced paint.


One of our local BM dealers owns 2 stores in my city...He is also one of the largest drywall contractors in the city....It never ocurred to me that he could be making huge profits on the painting end as well...After all, he does the drywall and must have private deals with the painting contractor(s)....


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## PaintMe201 (Sep 16, 2009)

ewingpainting.net said:


> .
> I challenge that.


what exactly is it that you challenge? a bm store actually doing that or that it would give you a different look on the paint line itself?


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

PaintMe201 said:


> what exactly is it that you challenge? a bm store actually doing that or that it would give you a different look on the paint line itself?


"a bm store actually doing that" :yes:
My look on the the paint line will change if you can take care of that


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Guys, if I could afford to put a shop in every one of your towns I would. BM IS competitive........apparently your local dealer isn't  We all operate differently ( just like you all do ) 

I guess I can always ship directly to you if you need. I dont know how much it could potentially save you. Might be worth a shot if you have a need and cant get a decent price anywhere. Send me a PM :thumbsup:


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

You sound like a eager dealer willing to work with a PC. I would give you a shot jut on that fact. 
When I went to my local BM store here. I gave the manager my card and told him to have there rep call me. He assured me he would. Its a year later and no call yet. 
NC, if I walked in and bought a gal of paint. I would be paying what the average Joe pays. Maybe get a 10% "contractors discount". So what would be my incentive? Or what incentive does the HO have to support their local contractor?


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

If you walk in for a gallon a year, how much of a discount should you expect? I will do $50,000 worth of paint this year. Should you get the same discount as I do? If they are trying to win you over, I can see giving you a larger discount at first and see where your usage goes. But, just for the random gallon here or there I would be ticked if you got my discount on everything.


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## PaintMe201 (Sep 16, 2009)

yeah but you're going off what you believe is a high price.. The fact that every bm dealer sells paint for a different price means 10% off one guys price might be a lot lower than 10% off another one's... i know up by me in the nyc area the stores are always competing against each other for price. You might see regal flat anywhere from $23 up to $35.. depending where you go.. The more volume a store buys a year, the better discount they get off their paint.. So obviously a contractor driven paint store is gonna be buying paint better than a homeowner hardware store


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## PaintMe201 (Sep 16, 2009)

DeanV said:


> If you walk in for a gallon a year, how much of a discount should you expect? I will do $50,000 worth of paint this year. Should you get the same discount as I do? If they are trying to win you over, I can see giving you a larger discount at first and see where your usage goes. But, just for the random gallon here or there I would be ticked if you got my discount on everything.


that's a very good point.. I know I'm not giving some guy who I know goes all over for his paint the same price I do for my bigger contractors.. unless there is the possibility that i know i'd be able to get more of their business if i work on some deals specifically for them


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

DeanV said:


> If you walk in for a gallon a year, how much of a discount should you expect? I will do $50,000 worth of paint this year. Should you get the same discount as I do? If they are trying to win you over, I can see giving you a larger discount at first and see where your usage goes. But, just for the random gallon here or there I would be ticked if you got my discount on everything.


That what my point was. You just said different


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

6 or 7 years ago i used to use BM exclusively and switched because I could get comparable product from another dealer for less. Since then every now and again I will use BM paint. We have three stores here (not counting any mom and pops) 
The store down town the guy is a real pain. He once gave me a hard time about picking up paint chips because he did not want me to go to a different store and have their color made. 
The BM guy in Madison is a nice guy and we used to buy all our paint from him but he kept raising and raising his prices untill we switched paint brands. 
The third store is out in a another section of town that I do not do much painting in, but they have very comparable prices and if I worked on that side of town I would think about switching to them. 

Three different dealers three different prices and three different attitudes. 

Other stores such as SW, ICI and PPG have their prices locked into the computer, so no matter what side of town you are on you can get your material through various stores for the same money.


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## tedrin (Oct 22, 2008)

Workaholic said:


> 6 or 7 years ago i used to use BM exclusively and switched because I could get comparable product from another dealer for less. Since then every now and again I will use BM paint. We have three stores here (not counting any mom and pops)
> The store down town the guy is a real pain. He once gave me a hard time about picking up paint chips because he did not want me to go to a different store and have their color made.
> The BM guy in Madison is a nice guy and we used to buy all our paint from him but he kept raising and raising his prices untill we switched paint brands.
> The third store is out in a another section of town that I do not do much painting in, but they have very comparable prices and if I worked on that side of town I would think about switching to them.
> ...


 
If it wasn't for my designer,I wouldn't buy BM at all....Decent paint but way overpriced...Have you ever tried Glidden Ultra?...I used it the other month and it is fantastric to work with and goes MUCH further than any BM product..I wish there was a web site that had independent tests of the paints durability....I'm not so sure how welll the Glidden holds up,so I won't use it..ICI also has some good products.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

PaintMe201 said:


> so Bikerboy what you are saying is it's the dealers not the paint company? Let's say I have a store with good service, gets you your order where you need it, when you need it, has pricing equal to or better then sw, the employees treat you like a friend, and i could get a rep to you when you have a problem on a job site in a day or 2, would that give you a new perpective on Benjamin Moore Paint?


 
To be blunt, yes. 

I don't have a problem with the products, it is the service, the overall lack of value.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

DeanV said:


> Because if (hypothetically) SuperPaint Cost less then Regal and was an equivalent or better product, you might save $2/gallon. This would provide two options:
> 
> 1. You could profit an additional $2/gall if the price you sold at was what you would have sold the project for regardless.
> 2. You could provide the same job for $2/gallon cheaper than your BM competitor and win more bids!
> ...


Hypothetically you're correct but on the average interior repaint in which we do 80% of the time some jobs are only say 10 gallons at 2$ that's 20$ If a client is picking someone else who is 20$ cheaper than me I didn't sell the job correctly or those are people I do not wish to work for.

On this board and many others the paint co debate is no different than, chevy, ford, dodge etc...
Its topic that is old and tiring just like most of the posters here....


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

nEighter said:


> Well not that I have to defend my point of view.. but when they are trying to sell me Aurora for $56.00 for exterior.. it _kinda_ takes me out of the "affordable" paint job price range. I am not spending that kind of money on paint to be added into the estimate.
> 
> It is bad enough getting Duration for 43.00/gal. I JUST spoke with my SW rep 2 days ago *monday* about the price and why so much. Sorry but if I need 17gal of paint that IS a chunk of money, and not many people are willing to foot the bill on it.


one its Aura not "Aurora" that's the town I am currently working in... 

Cheap paint equals cheap job which is equals cheap skills and more labor complete the job...

This topic is so done on this board move people...


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

bikerboy said:


> My B/M complaints:
> 
> 
> lousy service
> ...



You have told that plenty of times and sorry to hear seems to be regional for you...


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

TJ Paint said:


> i like SW because they are open all weekend, my BM dealer closes at Sat noon. Some jobs I need to finish on a weekend.
> 
> But I had a deck job early summer and needed a gallon of stain to finish thru SW and they were completely out of stock when I needed it. Sales kid said he would get it from a store nearby, and it didn't happen. Had to wait over a week to get one gal of stain to finish this job. Many times I've felt like I don't matter that much at SW. I feel like I matter a bit more at BM, except that there is an old lady that works the counter at BM and she takes forever, and I never can tell if she knows what she is doing, and its like an hour waiting around for crap cuz she has to ask the manager how to do things.... So both places are sort of not that great.
> 
> I get the best service at Diamond Vogel but I'm not familiar with there paint as much and don't really trust the quality as I do with the other two places. They have the best tape though, and I buy sundries there because of it. I don't know, I'm not that satisfied with the dealers in my town.



My BM Dealer is open 7-5 on Sat and 8-3 on Sunday... But I degress i don't work weekend, family time, my time, not my clients time...


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

MAK-Deco said:


> You have told that plenty of times and sorry to hear seems to be regional for you...


 
OOHH!

We are touchy today!

 Who peed in your corn flakes this morning? 

Sorry you had to read it again. I posted it for somebody else.

Sorry to bore you. 

I'll make sure not to post it again if you ever ask the question.

In fact I'll give you the opportunity to fill in the blanks for me.


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## MR.X (Mar 9, 2009)

so let me get this straight fellows.... being open 7 days a week like your local lowes and sheetz is okay ? where has Family values gone in this country?!? and lets be serious about this,how many homeowners what you in there houses on weekends?
this has been always my complaint be it sw or bm,and everyone here knows me and knows where i stand about paint...
1. we all make good stuff and crap.
2. like stated here,use what you like.
when it comes down too it ,simply its personal preference ..
too all whoever had issues at there local sw ,im sorry to hear that....

as a foot note here,all the bm dealers around here are lousy... over priced and never had enough product ever to satisfy contractor needs... havent heard one good thing from contractors about them,sad but true.

people come into where i work and look at prices and get shocked,but everyone has got to remember ,the guy in blue shirts have knowledge and most will bend over backwards too get you answers asapand wont sell you just too sell you..

but again these are my opinions and observations..


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

MR.X said:


> so let me get this straight fellows.... being open 7 days a week like your local lowes and sheetz is okay ? where has Family values gone in this country?!? and lets be serious about this,how many homeowners what you in there houses on weekends?
> this has been always my complaint be it sw or bm,and everyone here knows me and knows where i stand about paint...
> 1. we all make good stuff and crap.
> 2. like stated here,use what you like.
> ...


mainly i need product on weekends when i do industrial work. i got a account at a windmill fabricator. they are open, or used to be before the economic-slowdown, 24-7. Weekends are the only time they slowdown at all enough to be able to get anything done in there. My contact there doesn't ever look for another bid, he justs asks for a price and I look at it and give it to him. That accounts worth working weekends for, to me. Its not every weekend, and when I do, I usually take it easy on Monday afterward, or whatever. I use SW indust. products for there, because they are open on weekends, and they also have decent indust. products.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

I don't know about you but I like working on week ends. I have always liked working on Sat for some reason. The traffic is better for one.


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

I agree. Get a day *OR* 2 off per week and it doesn't really matter to us which specific day it is. I think the no work on Sunday rule is pretty obsolete in our neck of the woods. We'll work a Sunday without even batting an eye. Take a Tuesday off, go fishin (not crowded:thumbup, have some cold ones and enjoy. Nothing sacreligious(sp?) about that - right:thumbsup:


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## BMDealer (Jun 2, 2008)

Well just my 2 cents.......we are a family owned home center that sells BM. We have a few painters that visit us regularly for pine trim and other products but no paint. I ask why and the answer was what has been posted in this thread. Every BM dealer varies in price, whether thats good or bad its a fact, but SW stores do not. So this brings about a confort level to many painters that know what they will have to pay if they run a few gallons short on a job out of town. 

But I will challenge the BM is to high priced theme. We are very competitive in product and we pride ourselves on our service. Also the poster that said I can't talk to the store owner about their price, I ask why not. I'm on my sales floor on a regular basis and am happy to explain pricing and my philosophy on how we do it. Our BM products start at $15 for flat or just over $10 gallon by the five. My biggest hurdle with any painter is that comfort level in product not the price. Many on this forum can admit that once they find a product that works they will stick with it and truly why change........I was at a job yesterday for another reason besides paint. The painter was in there spraying Devoe Wonder Tones, I offered him an interior of BM for free and he said no thank you. He was comfortable with Devoe and he said BM was to expensive anyways which I proved him wrong but his perception was such. For us as dealers its having to penetrate the contractors comfort zone and have them try alternative products that are competitively priced all with superior service.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

I will not use super-spec exterior. Got sold on it for a ext repaint and it flashed so bad and would not hide anything.

With that said I do trust and use moorlife/glo line almost exclusively.
But I might start using superpaint if the price gets too much out of hand


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

TJ Paint said:


> I will not use super-spec exterior. Got sold on it for a ext repaint and it flashed so bad and would not hide anything.
> 
> With that said I do trust and use moorlife/glo line almost exclusively.
> But I might start using superpaint if the price gets too much out of hand


 
I like the Spec Ext line, I have very few and far between complaints about it. If there ever is a problem, it's usually an issue with the substrate or color. Flashing isn't caused by the paint, it's drying too fast, or needs another coat for the proper film thickness. Certain colors can also cause paint to flash because the colorants can sometimes extend the cure time.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

NCPaint1 said:


> I like the Spec Ext line, I have very few and far between complaints about it. If there ever is a problem, it's usually an issue with the substrate or color. Flashing isn't caused by the paint, it's drying too fast, or needs another coat for the proper film thickness. Certain colors can also cause paint to flash because the colorants can sometimes extend the cure time.


please don't tell me what the problem was, I was the one to put an extra coat on when the house looked like sh$t using it. Oh and yeah, the flashing was caused by an issue with the substrate, there was diff texture from the smoother painted to the primed wood. Where I think this paint sucks is that it cant hide worth crap, it shows any difference in texture off way too much. I think the people that use it either are doing NC or they are happy it is cheaper than anything else in the showroom. Anyways, the issues and problems i've had with superspec, I've never had with Moorguard. BTW, how many gallons have you ever applied of either line?


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## PaintMe201 (Sep 16, 2009)

we don't even carry the exterior super spec line.. just moorlife/gard/glo... we tell people we only stock the better stuff for exteriors cause we don't want no problems with it.. i wouldn't trust a cheaper paint for exterior due to the weather and all that


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## Rick the painter (Mar 30, 2009)

I have been buying BM pretty much exclusively for over 20 years now. My only complaint is the consistancy (thickness) of the paint seems to vary,even before this voc mess. SW Duration is nice,but almost all SW interior paints seem harder to spread and dont spread as far as BM. My own 2 cents...


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

i've gone with moorguard/life for ext. and always been pleased with it, and the regal line for int. both lines have never let me down. Although the regal line is a bit higher priced around here so I mostly use promar. I've only used duration int once and wasn't too impressed. I mean, I think its decent, but it goes on weird for me and the price seems too high for what it is.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

TJ Paint said:


> i've gone with moorguard/life for ext. and always been pleased with it, and the regal line for int. both lines have never let me down. Although the regal line is a bit higher priced around here so I mostly use promar. I've only used duration int once and wasn't too impressed. I mean, I think its decent, but it goes on weird for me and the price seems too high for what it is.


 

I will second that opinion:notworthy:


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

TJ Paint said:


> i've gone with moorguard/life for ext. and always been pleased with it, and the regal line for int. both lines have never let me down. Although the regal line is a bit higher priced around here so I mostly use promar. I've only used duration int once and wasn't too impressed. I mean, I think its decent, but it goes on weird for me and the price seems too high for what it is.


Moorgard/life/glo is awesome, I like it alot better since they went to the 100% acrylic, and cut back some of the alkyd resin. For a while there, I didnt like them, seemed sticky, gritty, and ruined brushes. 

Have you tried the BEN line? It reminds me alot of the "old" Regal formula before it went 100% acrylic. It's also low VOC, and tints with the WB system. I've had alot of customers switch from Spec to it....and also Regal to BEN.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I really did not like the old Regal line, AquaVelvet in particular, so hopefully Ben is not the same as that one.


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## eb02038 (Jun 26, 2011)

BMDealer said:


> Well just my 2 cents.......we are a family owned home center that sells BM. We have a few painters that visit us regularly for pine trim and other products but no paint. I ask why and the answer was what has been posted in this thread. Every BM dealer varies in price, whether thats good or bad its a fact, but SW stores do not. So this brings about a confort level to many painters that know what they will have to pay if they run a few gallons short on a job out of town.
> 
> But I will challenge the BM is to high priced theme. We are very competitive in product and we pride ourselves on our service. Also the poster that said I can't talk to the store owner about their price, I ask why not. I'm on my sales floor on a regular basis and am happy to explain pricing and my philosophy on how we do it. Our BM products start at $15 for flat or just over $10 gallon by the five. My biggest hurdle with any painter is that comfort level in product not the price. Many on this forum can admit that once they find a product that works they will stick with it and truly why change........I was at a job yesterday for another reason besides paint. The painter was in there spraying Devoe Wonder Tones, I offered him an interior of BM for free and he said no thank you. He was comfortable with Devoe and he said BM was to expensive anyways which I proved him wrong but his perception was such. For us as dealers its having to penetrate the contractors comfort zone and have them try alternative products that are competitively priced all with superior service.


Where in MA is your store? I'm a painting contractor here in MA.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

DeanV said:


> I really did not like the old Regal line, AquaVelvet in particular, so hopefully Ben is not the same as that one.


Dean I really like the Ben line. Its probably my favorite from Gennex, and for sure the easiest BM paint to work with I have used since Satin Impervo.

I so wish I had a real BM dealer in my area, we have one that isn't Gennex about 18 miles away, and Ace hardware that is well Ace. My main store is 32 miles from my shop.


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## Mike's QP (Jun 12, 2008)

i just noticed this thread is 2 years old :blink:


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## Slopmeyer (Aug 2, 2009)

I dont really like BM and not just because its over priced and not as good as SW. All these hardware stores selling it with no no training or knowledge of the differences in the paint. And where I am it is nearly impossible to get enough paint paint to paint a normal size house without ordering it in advance. I can usually get as much as I want at SW no problem. Convenience is priceless.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Around here we have 2 real local paint stores chains that carry it, so service and availability is not lacking. I am in a painter's Mecca I suppose with 3 real paint stores, one great local hardware store, and 2 box stores within 5 minutes or so of my shop.


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## rollingstoned (Oct 27, 2011)

NCPaint1 said:


> Guys, if I could afford to put a shop in every one of your towns I would. BM IS competitive........apparently your local dealer isn't  We all operate differently ( just like you all do )
> 
> I guess I can always ship directly to you if you need. I dont know how much it could potentially save you. Might be worth a shot if you have a need and cant get a decent price anywhere. Send me a PM :thumbsup:


Hey. Can't figure out how to PM you. I'm new to the forum, so maybe I don't have the option? Anyway, I live about an hour away. Was wondering what you price Super Spec/Super Hide at for a 5?


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## madochio (Oct 26, 2011)

first let me say that i do not work for benjamin moore. I do however sell BM paint (and a local brew) and i agree and some of there products are overpriced for what they are namely ben and regal. darker colors i have never seen anything better then aura in hide (20+ years) if you factor in the time and prime coat aura will be cheaper in the long run for darker colors, but at around 60$ a gallon it is hard to do.

my questions are 
1. the reason why some of use are not buying bm is 1.cost? 2.service? or 3. product?
realize that two of those three can change based on where you buy them. Here in the Twin cities we have 6 dealers for BM. and yet the other five do not sell much of it. Why? the pricing is about the same. the differnce is in the stores. 
as with everything else if u do not like the store find a new one. We pride ourself on cust service for both con't and retail. (not spelling) Personally i would not pay the price for BM 90% of the time.. I have always matched product to project. if you need 60$ a gallon or 25$ a gallon paint is based on what you need to paint not on my bottom line, other store do not see this. ( not all of them) it goes to say if you find a store that you like and like the product stay there. Jumping from store to store will just case you a major headache in dollars and time. yes time will call for you to buy another paint, but no not expect the same discount on one gallon ( as stated here)


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

Madochio- I am in the TC- I buy at Hirshfields and Abbot paint all the time. Where are you ( and tell me more about this brew thing...)


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

rollingstoned said:


> Hey. Can't figure out how to PM you. I'm new to the forum, so maybe I don't have the option? Anyway, I live about an hour away. Was wondering what you price Super Spec/Super Hide at for a 5?


Super Spec interior i'm guessing is what you were asking about. 

Flat $95/5
Eggshell $115/5

The Super Hide line I dont get much call for, but I am bringing in Coronado in the next couple weeks since Benjamin Moore bought them.

I havent nailed down an exact price but it should be around

Flat $75-$80/5
Eggshell $90-$95/5


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