# who gets pd for comm punch out ?



## Ramsey (Jan 15, 2011)

ok so before i turn this bid in id like to know how many of u commercial painters get pd for punch out ?[i need to correct this.]i mean punchout due to others harm.like trimmers sticking a 45 thru the wall etc.?they hold 10 percent on everyone so i figure that must be to cover theyre ass on stuff like p/o .so i can backcharge the other companes that have screwed all my work ,up.the reason i ask is because they will have 10 percent of my money until p/o is done obviously .ive have never ben paid for p/o work really i just took it with stride and was happy to get pd for the job.With a job this size p/o could be a substancial part of my paycheck in the long run.Its a prevaling wage job .

so whats everyones expierience with p/o in big commercial work ?thanks ahead ,well appreciated .

p.s. should i put a clause in my bid to protect myself?or would it be standard for a comm general to assume they will pay for p/o to do with other trades harm done?


----------



## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Put in a "not to exceed" clause in your contract. I have no problems going over a _little, _but will not be taken advantage of. :no:


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

The AIA has a nice dtfs clause as well.


----------



## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> The AIA has a nice dtfs clause as well.


And not to forget the PDCA touch-up standard.


----------



## Ramsey (Jan 15, 2011)

AIA DTFS ???? please explain .help me out here guys .
and i like the not to exceed but what kinda perameters should i set ?like maybe 4 man hrs pr unit or something like that ? And wth id PDFS T/U STANDARDS ,REALLY ,


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Ramsey

Is this bid due tomorrow?

What contract format are you using? Please post it.


----------



## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Ramsey said:


> AIA DTFS ???? please explain .help me out here guys .
> and i like the not to exceed but what kinda perameters should i set ?like maybe 4 man hrs pr unit or something like that ? And wth id PDFS T/U STANDARDS ,REALLY ,


PDCA is your national trade orginazation. "Painting and Decorating Contractors of America"


----------



## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Here it is.....

http://www.pdca.org/present/PDCA%20P1-04.pdf


----------



## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

I refrence all PDCA standards in my contracts. :yes:


----------



## Ramsey (Jan 15, 2011)

if u wont mind pm me so i can discuss some things with u .i dont wanna break any rules .thanks ,i really could use some help and yes its due tomm.im friends with these people so im using my standard proposals for my preliminary numbers.


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Ramsey said:


> if u wont mind pm me so i can discuss some things with u .i dont wanna break any rules .thanks ,i really could use some help and yes its due tomm.im friends with these people so im using my standard proposals for my preliminary numbers.


We have a designated member who handles quote related situations like this. His member name is "plainpainter", and his name is Dan. Dan will be contacting you soon to discuss your numbers.


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

for bidding for a friend you sure are worried about getting screwed over


----------



## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Ramsey said:


> if u wont mind pm me so i can discuss some things with u .i dont wanna break any rules .thanks ,i really could use some help and yes its due tomm.im friends with these people so im using my standard proposals for my preliminary numbers.


Just include the PDCA standard in your contract. Also include in your _price _any amount of damage repair you feel may be needed. Anthing after that is a change order!


----------



## Ramsey (Jan 15, 2011)

well its a few aquaintinces .i shoukd correct that lol.it still buissiness.and on a $2.5 million job i think u would want to protect yourself even if it was a friend correct?


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Ramsey said:


> well its a few aquaintinces .i shoukd correct that lol.it still buissiness.and on a $2.5 million job i think u would want to protect yourself even if it was a friend correct?


only if you want to make money. Sounds like you're wondering about that too.


----------



## Ramsey (Jan 15, 2011)

i absolutely wanna make money and yes i am worried about that cus i have ben out of the picture for 2 yrs and i am concrned i may be cutting myslf short to be honest.i dont need to get hurt on my new maiden voyage or thatll put me in depression ,lol .but i also wantt to protect myself because numbers are tight but something like punchout for months can kill any profit i hoped for on a prevaling wage job.thank god its a davis bacon scale .lol


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

lol


----------



## Ramsey (Jan 15, 2011)

Aaaand did u contact dan for me ?when should i hear from him or should i contact him ?thanks if u did that for me .


----------



## Ramsey (Jan 15, 2011)

vermontpainter said:


> lol


 everyone loves the lol.LOL haha


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Ramsey said:


> Aaaand did u contact dan for me ?when should i hear from him or should i contact him ?thanks if u did that for me .


Ramsey

Now that you are back in the saddle, you will need to do some things for yourself. Pm Dan...his sn is plainpainter. Be proactive. Otherwise, you will get trampled.


----------



## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

You sound like the perfect candidate to place a bid on a $2.5 million dollar job.:thumbsup:


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> You sound like the perfect candidate to place a bid on a $2.5 million dollar job.:thumbsup:


Dan was just saying the other day that things were looking up.


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

NEPS.US said:


> You sound like the perfect candidate to place a bid on a $2.5 million dollar job.:thumbsup:


yeah, I mean, you seem to be questioning every aspect of this project. Sounds like you're over your head, especially for your first project in 2 years. With that said, good luck.


----------



## Ramsey (Jan 15, 2011)

vermontpainter said:


> Ramsey
> 
> Now that you are back in the saddle, you will need to do some things for yourself. Pm Dan...his sn is plainpainter. Be proactive. Otherwise, you will get trampled.


thank u and trust me i do plenty for myself ,like i said tho im alittle gunshy after b n out for awile .i just really study things well before i jump ,ive been that rt ,rushing into something and saying yuo i can do it for that price.any way thanks again,looking forward to talking with yens.


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Ramsey said:


> thank u and trust me i do plenty for myself ,like i said tho im alittle gunshy after b n out for awile .i just really study things well before i jump ,ive been that rt ,rushing into something and saying yuo i can do it for that price.any way thanks again,looking forward to talking with yens.


Dan analyzes things too. I think he will see your situation very clearly, and you will appreciate his knowledge.


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Ramsey said:


> thank u and trust me i do plenty for myself ,like i said tho im alittle gunshy after b n out for awile .i just really study things well before i jump ,ive been that rt ,rushing into something and saying yuo i can do it for that price.any way thanks again,looking forward to talking with *yens.*


By the way, you say "yens" alot. What does that mean?


----------



## Ramsey (Jan 15, 2011)

NEPS.US said:


> You sound like the perfect candidate to place a bid on a $2.5 million dollar job.:thumbsup:


 is that really ness ? cmon i sighned up to have some pals that could help me out and understand everyday crap .ive ben in this show a long time and i know my stuff and ive done about everything u could think of .like i said i just am concerned im alittle rusty.Please if u dont wanna talk or help out than dont critisize ,i wouldnt try to embarrass u like that .


----------



## Ramsey (Jan 15, 2011)

vermontpainter said:


> By the way, you say "yens" alot. What does that mean?


 Im simply refferring to everyone on here ,like u guys .


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Ramsey said:


> Im simply refferring to everyone on here ,like u guys .


Good idea. Lets call all the guys yens.


----------



## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Ramsey, I understand that you are all jazzed up over this job and you want to make sure you get all your ducks in a row and you seem to have a lot of questions with a short deadline date to get it all in order but you have to learn to read between the lines a bit on this board. There is a lot of good natured banter. I wish you luck on this project and hope you got your contract about worked out.


----------



## Ramsey (Jan 15, 2011)

Workaholic said:


> Ramsey, I understand that you are all jazzed up over this job and you want to make sure you get all your ducks in a row and you seem to have a lot of questions with a short deadline date to get it all in order but you have to learn to read between the lines a bit on this board. There is a lot of good natured banter. I wish you luck on this project and hope you got your contract about worked out.


 Thank you i do appreciate youre proffessionalism [?] lol.kind of you and thats the kind of people i like to talk to .yes i did have a short time frame to put this together and i thought it would be a great idea to talk it over with some other proffessionals ,again now i get the whole $$$$ rules stuff .wth.jees .i was just trying t be honest about my seriousness of the questions ive ask.so thanks again and take care.
I didnt think i was revealing that many questions ,i only wrote 3 threads in 2 diff sections,i didnt think i was showing novice standards .just looking for some opinions to cover my as# in this scale of a job,ive been taken for alot of money in my day for b n a good guy.im sure you all have also .take care.


----------



## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Ramsey said:


> Thank you i do appreciate youre proffessionalism [?] lol.kind of you and thats the kind of people i like to talk to .yes i did have a short time frame to put this together and i thought it would be a great idea to talk it over with some other proffessionals ,again now i get the whole $$$$ rules stuff .wth.jees .i was just trying t be honest about my seriousness of the questions ive ask.so thanks again and take care.
> I didnt think i was revealing that many questions ,i only wrote 3 threads in 2 diff sections,i didnt think i was showing novice standards .just looking for some opinions to cover my as# in this scale of a job,ive been taken for alot of money in my day for b n a good guy.im sure you all have also .take care.


I understand.


----------



## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

http://www.merriam-webster.com/spanish/yens

or he could mean you uns http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=you'uns


----------



## Ramsey (Jan 15, 2011)

aaron61 said:


> http://www.merriam-webster.com/spanish/yens
> 
> or he could mean you uns http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=you'uns


the secaond one for sure ,i was brought up with southern routes from north carolina and i was born on jeter mtn in n.c. .my mom was all southern and i guess i picked it up growing up.thats funny i pick on my wifes speech cus shes from massachusetts and they say "ustavit" in stead of "used to it" amongst other sayings .thats a first for me.I guess ive lost my edge.


----------



## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Ramsy don't listen to these guys, their messen with ya, as they are messen with dan (plainpainter). 

Is the entire construction project worth 2.5 or is the full 2.5 for the paint project.

Any way it really doesn't matter if there is a prime contractor and you are their sub contractor. you would be signing the prime contract. Just put your hourly wage for a foremen, labor and o.t. 
Don't make it complicated or like your going to nickel and dime them. JMO


----------



## Ramsey (Jan 15, 2011)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Ramsy don't listen to these guys, their messen with ya, as they are messen with dan (plainpainter).
> 
> Is the entire construction project worth 2.5 or is the full 2.5 for the paint project.
> 
> ...


ThankS bud. Well indent know y they're messing with me although I'm a newbie I'm sure not a novice. Anyway yes the paint budget is roughly $2.5 , the buildings are roughly 144k sq ft of rock on every floor times 3 floors. Not counting common areas . And stairwells. then theyres 4 buildings .
I've got my pricing in place and I do know how to price out the job I was simply asking about something I always got shorted on and that is punchout .
I don't do hourly. I go with footage plus $$ price for doors in units.I'm good on that stuff. Lol I don't know what happened,WTF ? I was just Looking for some punchout info. I guess I was alittle insulted after beeing a professional for many yrs and working my as off to take care of my family just like all u guys. I hope this goes no further in this direction its kinda immature if u ask me. I like some fun for sure but I'm under pressure for some genuine advice. Not insults. I wouldn't do that crap to anyone that I knew was a real professional and serious about they're living. And obviously after this long I'm genuine. This is my restart in life and I really need this to work. After suffer g a heart attack I've been nervous about my comeback and all the pressure I dealt with. For 20 yrs with my own subs and 20 employees. I do apoligise if I gave u guys the wrong idea and u though I was a novice / beginner for those who don't know.Novice Haha. Funny right?c I have fun. So feel free guys but please enturprip my question properly. Thanks again. New start please.


----------



## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Ramsey said:


> Thank you i do appreciate youre proffessionalism [?] lol.kind of you and thats the kind of people i like to talk to .yes i did have a short time frame to put this together and i thought it would be a great idea to talk it over with some other proffessionals ,again now i get the whole $$$$ rules stuff .wth.jees .i was just trying t be honest about my seriousness of the questions ive ask.so thanks again and take care.
> I didnt think i was revealing that many questions ,i only wrote 3 threads in 2 diff sections,i didnt think i was showing novice standards .just looking for some opinions to cover my as# in this scale of a job,ive been taken for alot of money in my day for b n a good guy.im sure you all have also .take care.


Dude.
Your sentence called.
It wants its punctuation back.


----------



## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Rams, I wasn't recommending giving a T&M bid. 
You should have your Base price. Which should include punch out items. That's a given. Then you have your hourly rates for work over and beyond. With a project that big I'm sure the contract will be broken up. 1st floor, 2nd floor, corridors, etc. So you should be able to give em a test drive as they give you a test drive. If you put all that verbiage on your estimate they could think your gonna kill their budget in extras. That's a big red flag. Besides you need to be able to run a job that will avoid all that. Builders hate that because it blows out their budget. They would rather work with you on the job than the extras in the office.


----------



## Ramsey (Jan 15, 2011)

Yes exactly. Thats what I'm doing bud. Just some simple numbers. I'm not going haywire in any way just simple footage plus doors then I'll worry about the details after the deal is on the table. I just wanted to make sure I cove rmy bases on the touch ups. Hoping they don't expect to walk on me for punch out. 
My thoughts exactly on reeling them in with the little numbers. I'm fair I just don't want them to think theyre getting a free ride. And I'm a sucker. Ya know? So I thought IDE let em know up front .
And yes I do apoligise for my punctuation , I do run on and most of the time its on my phone so punks aren't at my fingertips. 
Thanks again guys.


----------



## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Well I hope you have OH and profit with you #'s. I'd add in 3-4 hours a unit for touch up. Some will be more some will be less. But it all evens out.


----------



## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> We have a designated member who handles quote related situations like this. His member name is "plainpainter", and his name is Dan. Dan will be contacting you soon to discuss your numbers.




"Dan" would most likely put YOU in check. Before referencing ANY one else why won't you please put up all your professional creditably so we can ALL pick apart each member's credentials so as to put us ALL on the same level as you.. thus we can all experience the 'same' experience as you.. eh?


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

nEighter said:


> "Dan" would most likely put YOU in check. Before referencing ANY one else why won't you please put up all your professional creditably so we can ALL pick apart each member's credentials so as to put us ALL on the same level as you.. thus we can all experience the 'same' experience as you.. eh?


Natter

The last thing Dan needs is a Kansas handyman trying to speak for him. Have a better day today! 

Do something for your business.


----------



## Ramsey (Jan 15, 2011)

Well this was certainly sidetracked .the topic .
so ,the numbers are tiight and they were very clear the cheapest one is the one to get the job.so my thought was to go in low ball kinda.and make up some dollars on the back charges change orders .and extras.hopefully.
really my money is in the doors .10,ooo doors .at $20 each.ok take care guys thanks .
Like isaid guys just conversation .


----------



## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Ramsey said:


> Well this was certainly sidetracked .the topic .
> so ,the numbers are tiight and they were very clear the cheapest one is the one to get the job.so my thought was to go in low ball kinda.and make up some dollars on the back charges change orders .and extras.hopefully.
> really my money is in the doors .10,ooo doors .at $20 each.ok take care guys thanks .
> Like isaid guys just conversation .


 
I'm not sure which shocked me more, the idea of finishing 10,000 doors or doing them for $20/each. I hope at least one of those is a typo.

Good luck. The most successful commercial builder in our area takes this approach, and has been doing it for three generations, so it can work. Basically, they've run the business by capitalizing on architects' mistakes and omissions.


----------



## Ramsey (Jan 15, 2011)

lol ,the typo is on the 10k.its 1k .whats wrong with $20 each for spaying int doors ?no material just labor.,ive spayed doors for 20 each forevr and made damn god money on em .done in 1 minute each and five mins to tape hinges.o just fyi ,im talking interior masonite doors.


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

being a lowballer, you will fit in here just fine. 

good luck with the bid!


----------



## Ramsey (Jan 15, 2011)

thanks i got the job .looking forward to the streees lol na really tho im happy i needed the boost .theyre is 3500 doors btw between all buildings.start monday next week so i gotta gear up now .


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Ramsey said:


> thanks i got the job .looking forward to the streees lol na really tho im happy i needed the boost .theyre is 3500 doors btw between all buildings.start monday next week so i gotta gear up now .


Congrats on getting the job Ramsey. You were right to be concerned about the punchlist verbiage in your contract. On a $2.5M paint job, you could punch list your way right into trouble. Sounds like you know the drill. 

If you stick around, dont be surprised if people are so interested (and supportive) that you will have to share photos and maybe make a youtube video. Good luck with the project.


----------



## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

I suggest you have your stupidest guy tape off all those hinges.

(he'll be a little brain-fried at the end, but it won't be as noticeable)


----------



## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Ramsey said:


> thanks i got the job .looking forward to the streees lol na really tho im happy i needed the boost .theyre is 3500 doors btw between all buildings.start monday next week so i gotta gear up now .


Congrats, I hope it works for ya. Its a great feeling to see work out in front. :thumbup:


----------



## Ramsey (Jan 15, 2011)

lol i hate hinges .ive done tousands of them tho.my luck i wont find a good laborer those days and ill get stuck with em .btw do any of u guys have luck with those plastic hinge covers they sell or does the paint run behind em ?be kinda nice to go from unit to unit an just pop eem on ,maybe with a 5 gal bucket of water to rinse between .whats a good brand?anyone?usuaally if it seems to good it probly is.


----------



## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

I've never tried the magnetic hinge covers.
..but I've never had 3500 doors to do on one job either.

I usually run the screws out, and take the door off.
They didn't spec (at least) a primer on the bottoms of the doors?

To be honest...I don't think I'm anyone to be giving (any) advice on a 2.5 million dollar paint job.

..so ignore me.

But I am looking forward to learning from pics (and video if you find the time) on how one goes about slaying such a monster.


----------



## Ramsey (Jan 15, 2011)

ve one several big jobs in my carreer,but this is the biggest for sure .nice warm up ha? lol as far as im concerned theyres no real diff then doing a cheap ass track home .just lots of it and more overheadaches haha funny right.?reallythats how im looking at it.and ill be in the same house for 3 yrs .im anxcious as hell to get rolling next week.just to get the organizing done and such .then its all the same man .ill do my best to get some vids and pics ,but the only thing impressive here is the sure bulk of these buildings.


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Ramsey said:


> ve one several big jobs in my carreer,but this is the biggest for sure .nice warm up ha? lol as far as im concerned theyres no real diff then doing a cheap ass track home .just lots of it and more overheadaches haha funny right.?reallythats how im looking at it.and ill be in the same house for 3 yrs .im anxcious as hell to get rolling next week.just to get the organizing done and such .then its all the same man .ill do my best to get some vids and pics ,but the only thing impressive here is the sure bulk of these buildings.


how longs the project going to take you?


----------



## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

Ramsey said:


> reallythats how im looking at it.and ill be in the same house for 3 yrs





TJ Paint said:


> how longs the project going to take you?


It's going to take him 3 years, TJ

(I'da probably bid it for 5 years...but I'm pretty slow)


----------



## Different Strokes (Dec 8, 2010)

Ramsey said:


> lol i hate hinges .ive done tousands of them tho.my luck i wont find a good laborer those days and ill get stuck with em .btw do any of u guys have luck with those plastic hinge covers they sell or does the paint run behind em ?be kinda nice to go from unit to unit an just pop eem on ,maybe with a 5 gal bucket of water to rinse between .whats a good brand?anyone?usuaally if it seems to good it probly is.


I've used them. They work "OK". You still have to have a guy behind the trigger with some knowledge of how to use the gun though. Don't waste your time thinking you'll be saving money by trying to wash them off in a bucket of water. You'll leave them on between prime and finish coats anyway, so you'll have primer dried on them already. If you try pulling the hinge covers off before they are dry you'll end up with paint smeared all over the place trying to get them off. Better to let them dry and then remove. The particulay type I used had 2 magnets on both sides of the hinge and were connected with a thin piece of plastic that folded over the top of the pin. (Still had to put a small piece of tape on the bottom end of the pin)

Best case scenario, you'll have an experienced guy with the gun not blasting at odd angles of the magnets, minimal clean up, and you'll save some time vs. taping the hinges.

Personally, I pull the doors, spray them in my garage and then rehang them the next day. That's for an occupied res repaint and in no way compares to the scope of work you are looking at. 

I'd give you the exact kind of cover I used, but it wasn't my job, and I didn't buy the covers.:thumbsup:


----------



## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

Hinge Mags


----------

