# Kitchen Cabinet paints?



## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

What is a good Kitchen Cabinet paint. We will only use BM or California paints. I tried finding the other threads about this with little luck. I have used Oil Impervo but it's to costly.
No SW and especially no HD or lowes paints.


----------



## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

I really like California's NexTech waterborne enamel. I also like BM Advance, but between them I like Nextech better, it blocks quicker. With both, especially with Advance, HOs need to be know that it takes a while to develop a good hardness. 
With both, more so Advance, 2 coats in a day can be tough, but some PT members do it. BM recommends 16 hour re-coat. Fans, 75 degrees helps this a bit, but not as much as if the paint was acrylic.
Nextech comes in satin and semi. All bases.

For acrylics, I like Cali's Ultraplate. It's an acrylic urethane. Very good. Similar to BM Cabinet Coat, but better application. Not as rope-y. Very hard finish.
Like Cabinet Coat, Ultraplate only comes in white and pastel bases and satin sheen.

In another thread I tried to come up with BM trim paint choices, but, other than Advance (especially for cabs) I don't think BM has one.


----------



## Stonehampaintdept (Jan 10, 2013)

kdpaint said:


> I really like California's NexTech waterborne enamel. I also like BM Advance, but between them I like Nextech better, it blocks quicker. With both, especially with Advance, HOs need to be know that it takes a while to develop a good hardness.
> With both, more so Advance, 2 coats in a day can be tough, but some PT members do it. BM recommends 16 hour re-coat. Fans, 75 degrees helps this a bit, but not as much as if the paint was acrylic.
> Nextech comes in satin and semi. All bases.
> 
> ...


Yep Ultraplate or Nextech, very smooth finishes on both. Nextech can be any color. Ultraplate only white / pastels


----------



## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

We ail be spraying the doors, the boxes not sure yet it will depend on what other work is going on there. How does the Cali NextTech spray out? Or the UltraPlate?


----------



## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

PPG Breakthrough. Use it all the time. Waiting for the first coat to dry on a set right now. Dries really fast and can be recoated within an hour. Has great blocking and lays out buttery smooth. I can usually turn around a kitchen in 3 days. Most of that time is spent on prep and re-installing the doors.


----------



## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

Nextech sprays beautifully. I have only brushed Ultraplate. I like PPG Breakthrough a lot (better than Cabinet Coat, maybe better than Ultraplate) but you mentioned you only use BM or Cali, right?

If you have a PPG dealer, Breakthrough is cool. Super hard, re-coat in 30 minutes/hour, available in all bases. Great to spray, less so with brushing, but do-able.


----------



## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

kdpaint said:


> Nextech sprays beautifully. I have only brushed Ultraplate. I like PPG Breakthrough a lot (better than Cabinet Coat, maybe better than Ultraplate) but you mentioned you only use BM or Cali, right?
> 
> If you have a PPG dealer, Breakthrough is cool. Super hard, re-coat in 30 minutes/hour, available in all bases. Great to spray, less so with brushing, but do-able.


No one close sells PPG that's why I said BM or Cali. To get PPG it's atleast 45 minute drive each way.
When you brushed out Ultarplate how did it level out?


----------



## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

It brushes really nicely.


----------



## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Lambrecht said:


> PPG Breakthrough. Use it all the time. Waiting for the first coat to dry on a set right now. Dries really fast and can be recoated within an hour. Has great blocking and lays out buttery smooth. I can usually turn around a kitchen in 3 days. Most of that time is spent on prep and re-installing the doors.


Yo Lambrecht
Do you brush Breakthrough at all or only spray?
For example would you ever brush the frames and shoot the doors?


----------



## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

I've sprayed doors and brushed frames with Breakthrough and it was great. I've actually brushed out doors and frames with it as well and it looked really good. Like many have said, you have to be quick with brushing doors with minimal messing around. It can look great. And, if you over brush, you can sand it in 30 minutes.:whistling2:

Bottom line- Breakthrough is not spray only, just a bit of an adjustment is needed when brushing.


----------



## HeadHoncho (Apr 17, 2007)

kdpaint said:


> Nextech sprays beautifully. I have only brushed Ultraplate. I like PPG Breakthrough a lot (better than Cabinet Coat, maybe better than Ultraplate) but you mentioned you only use BM or Cali, right?


Can you list some general strengths and weakness of Nextech vs ultraplate vs breakthrough?

Do you think Nextech has better adhesion than ultraplate? 

How do the satin sheens compare? 

I have used about 10gal of ultraplate, 100gal of breakthrough, zero gal of Nextech. 

Ultraplate 
Pros:
Covers awesome
Sprays awesome out of can, maybe a 1/2 cup water if needed. 
Lays out like glass with proper brush
Superior adhesion 
Superior hardness/durability
Cons: 
Only comes in white/pastel base (they told me they have tried other bases but the adhesion and durability gets compromised so they don't make it, that's respectable IMO)
Dries slower than breakthrough
Satin is on the shiny side

Breakthrough
Pros:
Sprays great
Superior adhesion 
Superior hardness/durability/block
Comes in most bases
Dries fast
Lovely satin sheen
Cons:
Dries too fast on warmer days
Paint has junk in it, must be strained
Difficult to brush 
Little thin, must be careful on verticals


----------



## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

Damon T said:


> Yo Lambrecht
> Do you brush Breakthrough at all or only spray?
> For example would you ever brush the frames and shoot the doors?


Like kdpaint said you can brush it but you better move quick. If I spray it I spray everything. I have found that there is a slight sheen difference between the spray finish and brush finish. You can get away with spraying the doors and brushing the frames but you usually need to apply an extra coat or two when brushing to get that "dipped" look like the doors. However, if you use a 4" microfiber mini roller for the frames they will dry out like a sprayed finish and not leave any lint from the roller cover.


----------



## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

If you use Aqua Lock as a primer it will take longer for Breakthrough to dry. Not sure why but it usually takes twice as long for it to dry and cure. That is the only primer that I have found that increases the dry time for whatever reason.


----------



## HeadHoncho (Apr 17, 2007)

Lambrecht said:


> If you use Aqua Lock as a primer it will take longer for Breakthrough to dry. Not sure why but it usually takes twice as long for it to dry and cure. That is the only primer that I have found that increases the dry time for whatever reason.


Prolly because the aqua lock does a good job sealing


----------



## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

HeadHoncho said:


> Can you list some general strengths and weakness of Nextech vs ultraplate vs breakthrough?
> 
> Do you think Nextech has better adhesion than ultraplate?
> 
> ...


----------



## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Lambrecht said:


> PPG Breakthrough. Use it all the time. Waiting for the first coat to dry on a set right now. Dries really fast and can be recoated within an hour. Has great blocking and lays out buttery smooth. I can usually turn around a kitchen in 3 days. Most of that time is spent on prep and re-installing the doors.


We do this same exact turnaround with Advance. 2 light coats and all is well. I dont understand why some of the painters cant get 2 coats in a day. If the coats are heavy it is going to run. It dries fast and hard. We love Advance.


----------



## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

I know these cabinets will take us 2 days atleast as it is a large kitchen


----------



## Seattlepainting (Jun 8, 2010)

I always prefer oil; especially FPoE Hollandlac 










For Latex Benjamin Moore Advance


----------



## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Lambrecht said:


> If you use Aqua Lock as a primer it will take longer for Breakthrough to dry. Not sure why but it usually takes twice as long for it to dry and cure. That is the only primer that I have found that increases the dry time for whatever reason.


I thought breakthrough was self priming on most surfaces?

I learned the hard way once that it doesn't play nicely with BM 046 primer.


----------



## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Seattlepainting said:


> I always prefer oil; especially FPoE Hollandlac For Latex Benjamin Moore Advance Video Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCVddE6X4OU


The samples of that WB Dutch paint looked really nice. Do you use much of that John, or still lean towards Advance when you go WB?


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

We will be applying over five gallons of kem aqua next week to our current kitchen remodel. 

Its pretty much all we use now to refinish, and we do about 25 kitchens a year now. The system we have developed I would put up against anyone's and feel confident it would be better. 

Its harder and more chemical resistant than any other acrylics I have tried, and we have tried a ton of them over the years.


----------



## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

Damon T said:


> I thought breakthrough was self priming on most surfaces?
> 
> I learned the hard way once that it doesn't play nicely with BM 046 primer.


It is but I like to prime with Aqua Lock because it sand so smoothly and I am old school and still believe in primer before finish paint. I have used it on unpainted surfaces and it adheres great but I still like a primer under it.


----------



## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Lambrecht said:


> It is but I like to prime with Aqua Lock because it sand so smoothly and I am old school and still believe in primer before finish paint. I have used it on unpainted surfaces and it adheres great but I still like a primer under it.


I'm the same I like to prime first.


----------



## jwilks75 (Jan 12, 2014)

Lambrecht said:


> It is but I like to prime with Aqua Lock because it sand so smoothly and I am old school and still believe in primer before finish paint. I have used it on unpainted surfaces and it adheres great but I still like a primer under it.


Agree that extra coat smooths things out and any missed prep shows up and gives us one more chance to hit it before the finish goes on.


----------



## Seattlepainting (Jun 8, 2010)

straight_lines said:


> We will be applying over five gallons of kem aqua next week to our current kitchen remodel.
> 
> Its pretty much all we use now to refinish, and we do about 25 kitchens a year now. The system we have developed I would put up against anyone's and feel confident it would be better.
> 
> Its harder and more chemical resistant than any other acrylics I have tried, and we have tried a ton of them over the years.


Great system.


----------



## Mod Paint Works (Jul 2, 2010)

We use Advance without issue. Dries slower, but we get 2 top coats/day.


----------



## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

The few times I did 2 thin-ish coats of Advance in a day, blocking took 2 weeks. That is not acceptable. I think it's reasonable to expect shelves and cabs to achieve a decent hardness in less time than that. 

A couple of times I sprayed a coat at 8am, hit it again at 530-6. That worked ok. HO could actually put stuff on it in a week. Doing 2 coats in less time than 10 hours did not work well for shelving and other "hi use" areas. Stuff took forever to harden up. 

Have to try Kem Acqua soon.


----------



## HeadHoncho (Apr 17, 2007)

straight_lines said:


> We will be applying over five gallons of kem aqua next week to our current kitchen remodel. Its pretty much all we use now to refinish, and we do about 25 kitchens a year now. The system we have developed I would put up against anyone's and feel confident it would be better. Its harder and more chemical resistant than any other acrylics I have tried, and we have tried a ton of them over the years.


I use a lot of KA too, great stuff!

Problem is SW likes to screw me too often! I've ordered KA plus and they send me the original KA, heck I even order KA+ with the stock #, still send the wrong stuff... Also I needed 60g of KA on jan 6, came in on the 9th completely frozen. Thanks SW! Luckily I have breakthrough and ultraplate as my backup plan. 

The KA plus surfacer is legit primer! Just about as fastdry as lacquer.


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Wow. I would be on the phone with the regional manager, and it that didn't get me satisfaction I would go over their head. Trust me if the right person knew about the issues you are having heads would roll, and the problems would disappear. 

My order came from Illinois, picked it up yesterday. Its the only place they could get it from, hard to believe there wasn't any in SE US. 

Have you tried the Lenmar wb lacquers? If you have a great BM store it would be an option.


----------



## jennifertemple (Oct 30, 2011)

Lambrecht said:


> PPG Breakthrough. Use it all the time. Waiting for the first coat to dry on a set right now. Dries really fast and can be recoated within an hour. Has great blocking and lays out buttery smooth. I can usually turn around a kitchen in 3 days. Most of that time is spent on prep and re-installing the doors.


What is this new PPG stuff called?!


----------



## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

jennifertemple said:


> What is this new PPG stuff called?!


It's been around awhile, and it's called Breakthrough. PPG bought the company that developed it. Good stuff, check it out.


----------



## jennifertemple (Oct 30, 2011)

*Lol*



kdpaint said:


> It's been around awhile, and it's called Breakthrough. PPG bought the company that developed it. Good stuff, check it out.


I thought you were saying it was a new "breakthrough" & failed to realise that WAS the product name. Thank you!


----------



## HeadHoncho (Apr 17, 2007)

straight_lines said:


> Wow. I would be on the phone with the regional manager, and it that didn't get me satisfaction I would go over their head. Trust me if the right person knew about the issues you are having heads would roll, and the problems would disappear. My order came from Illinois, picked it up yesterday. Its the only place they could get it from, hard to believe there wasn't any in SE US. Have you tried the Lenmar wb lacquers? If you have a great BM store it would be an option.


No I haven't tried Lenmar. I assume its similar to KA? I wanna try out Mohawk


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Yes its similar to KA. Lenmar is owned by BM.


----------



## more_prep (Dec 7, 2009)

I also love Kem Aqua -- have been pushing it here for a few years now. I've compared it to at least five other brands of wb lacquer, in search of that solvent precat hardness, block resistance, burnish resistance, adhesion, ease of application without defects such as craters, and appearance. Not only did it excel in all of these areas, it is also the least expensive. I tint my own and have no issues.

As an aside, it's true that Ultraplate does not perform well when tinted, even a butter like yellow. I like Calif. also, but it can take some effort to match BM colors. Then again, not even BM can match BM colors...


----------



## Danahy (Dec 11, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> We will be applying over five gallons of kem aqua next week to our current kitchen remodel. Its pretty much all we use now to refinish, and we do about 25 kitchens a year now. The system we have developed I would put up against anyone's and feel confident it would be better. Its harder and more chemical resistant than any other acrylics I have tried, and we have tried a ton of them over the years.


Does KA come in all bases or just the light colours, and if not then what's your preference for darks?


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I still haven't gotten an answer from my rep about what colors we can do. SW site says full color range, but I have had colors that couldn't' be done. They have a factory black listed on the site as well.


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

From today, these will get another coat tomorrow and be installed Thursday.


----------



## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

straight_lines said:


> From today, these will get another coat tomorrow and be installed Thursday.


Nice drying rack. Did you get that from Paul?


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Yes that is the Shmidt tree. This is larger job than usual for us, about 70 pieces. There are doors on all our rack space with 25 on the errecta rack as well. 

I have some plans to build in some work stations, and everything is going on wheels. Hopefully I can get it done next week when our workload slacks up some.


----------



## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

straight_lines said:


> Yes that is the Shmidt tree. This is larger job than usual for us, about 70 pieces. There are doors on all our rack space with 25 on the errecta rack as well.
> 
> I have some plans to build in some work stations, and everything is going on wheels. Hopefully I can get it done next week when our workload slacks up some.


Lol,now when someone asks me "what is that?", I know what to call it. :thumbsup:


----------



## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> From today, these will get another coat tomorrow and be installed Thursday.


Hey Tommy
Are you mostly running KA or KA plus or are they pretty similar?


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Mostly using KA. They are similar, but I was told only in fives. Most of our jobs are less than three gals of finish so I spec it instead.


----------



## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

I just put KM durapoxy on my cabinets at home during christmas time. I like it a lot. It seems very tough. I could tell immediately when installing them it was tough. Eggshell sheen looks good. Used a 410 rac10, hanging method. Had to do 5-6 coats of primer due to bad tannin bleed so they came out extra creamy.


----------



## jwilks75 (Jan 12, 2014)

ridesarize said:


> I just put KM durapoxy on my cabinets at home during christmas time. I like it a lot. It seems very tough. I could tell immediately when installing them it was tough. Eggshell sheen looks good. Used a 410 rac10, hanging method. Had to do 5-6 coats of primer due to bad tannin bleed so they came out extra creamy.


Good stuff!


----------



## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

ridesarize said:


> I just put KM durapoxy on my cabinets at home during christmas time. I like it a lot. It seems very tough. I could tell immediately when installing them it was tough. Eggshell sheen looks good. Used a 410 rac10, hanging method. Had to do 5-6 coats of primer due to bad tannin bleed so they came out extra creamy.


What primer did you use that you needed 5-6 coats? Did you clean the cabinets good before priming?


----------



## jwilks75 (Jan 12, 2014)

For those of you who listed finishes. What is your favorite tip size for spraying those products?


----------



## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

ridesarize said:


> I just put KM durapoxy on my cabinets at home during christmas time. I like it a lot. It seems very tough. I could tell immediately when installing them it was tough. Eggshell sheen looks good. Used a 410 rac10, hanging method. Had to do 5-6 coats of primer due to bad tannin bleed so they came out extra creamy.


I used to use durapoxy, but I had some adhesion problems on a few jobs so I stopped. I'm now using the hybrid 1930 on cabinets and that stuff is the bees knees.


----------



## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

jwilks75 said:


> For those of you who listed finishes. What is your favorite tip size for spraying those products?


I like the rac10 tips. 310 if the doors have panels, probly a 410 if they are smooth but I don't see too many of those.

If you can get the titan tr1 tips they might be a little better than the gracos, but I have to special order them so I stopped using them.


----------



## jwilks75 (Jan 12, 2014)

Hines Painting said:


> I used to use durapoxy, but I had some adhesion problems on a few jobs so I stopped. I'm now using the hybrid 1930 on cabinets and that stuff is the bees knees.


Just started using the KM hybrid and I love it too. I've never had problems with durapoxy, but I think the hybrid is a good step above. On the hybrid the label says over night to recoat (wish KM would put the recoat time in hours), but the stuff dries to the touch quickly.


----------



## jwilks75 (Jan 12, 2014)

Hines Painting said:


> I like the rac10 tips. 310 if the doors have panels, probly a 410 if they are smooth but I don't see too many of those.
> 
> If you can get the titan tr1 tips they might be a little better than the gracos, but I have to special order them so I stopped using them.



I've just recently started using water based products for cabinets in the last couple of months. I would use a RAC X 310 FFT with oil, but was wanting to get a consensus on what everyone was using for the water based products. When I sprayed the KM 1930 hybrid I went up to the RAC X 312 FFT because the viscosity of the finish seemed higher. I got good results, just seeing what everyone else likes.


----------



## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

Lambrecht said:


> What primer did you use that you needed 5-6 coats? Did you clean the cabinets good before priming?


I cleaned and rinsed well, tsp. Sanded by hand and palm sander moderately. I wanted to use shellac but this being in my home I didnt want those fumes and we have pilot lights going. I shot bases with 2 coats of allprime latex for tannins supposedly. Saw bleed through badly in several areas. So I cleaned out of that. 
I got synthetic shellac and 2 coated all doors and bases once. It was better but many stubborn spots. So I picked up KM acry-sheild tannin blocking primer, put 2 coats on all. 3 on doors(needed it too). Followed small spots with shellac aerosol lol..


----------



## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

ridesarize said:


> I cleaned and rinsed well, tsp. Sanded by hand and palm sander moderately. I wanted to use shellac but this being in my home I didnt want those fumes and we have pilot lights going. I shot bases with 2 coats of allprime latex for tannins supposedly. Saw bleed through badly in several areas. So I cleaned out of that. I got synthetic shellac and 2 coated all doors and bases once. It was better but many stubborn spots. So I picked up KM acry-sheild tannin blocking primer, put 2 coats on all. 3 on doors(needed it too). Followed small spots with shellac aerosol lol..


Interesting the synthetic shellac didn't block all the stains! I tried it on some red ink water base marker stains and it bled through. Did great on regular Sharpie markers.


----------



## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

Damon T said:


> Interesting the synthetic shellac didn't block all the stains! I tried it on some red ink water base marker stains and it bled through. Did great on regular Sharpie markers.


I have pics of the whole ordeal too I have to email from my phone to comp, dowload, change size then upload


----------



## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

ridesarize said:


> I have pics of the whole ordeal too I have to email from my phone to comp, dowload, change size then upload


The iPhone PT app will upload pics right from the phone. I'm guessing you've got something else?


----------



## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

I'm not perfect but I do use my smart phone for pics.


----------



## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

Okay I'll try it out then. Heres a few pic after 2 coats of allprime then further on.


----------



## sharrard (Mar 27, 2013)

*Kitchen Cabinet Painting*

These were done with BM Advance using a 411 tip and a Graco Tradeworks 150, I use STIX for an undercoat. Colour is Cloud White. I have also used the 310 tip (green) but the 411 (black) looked better (they were both thinned about 10%, but maybe it was just the days mojo).

I find those grey sanding pads (from Gator 000 pad) are really great for sanding between coats.


----------



## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

Here's some after pics of durapoxy eggshell, no more tannin! .


----------



## albertsean (Apr 14, 2017)

kdpaint said:


> I've sprayed doors and brushed frames with Breakthrough and it was great. I've actually brushed out doors and frames with it as well and it looked really good. Like many have said, you have to be quick with brushing doors with minimal messing around. It can look great. And, if you over brush, you can sand it in 30 minutes.:whistling2:
> 
> Bottom line- Breakthrough is not spray only, just a bit of an adjustment is needed when brushing.


 p { margin-bottom: 0.25cm; line-height: 120%; }a:link { } 





Hello! also like Nextech waterborne enamel. I have sprayed my kitchen doors, cupboards with enamel paint. It was great and looks really good.


----------



## 804 Paint (Jan 31, 2014)

I'm surprised that Waterborne Satin Impervo wasn't mentioned. I just used it to spray a set based on my previous experience with it about 3 years ago. Then, it leveled nicely with a brush and extremely durable finish. 

I wasn't impressed this time around. It did not level well at all. The doors were sprayed laying down and look decent. But the boxes look a little orange-peely. I tried laying it on a little heavier on a small stand-alone cabinet but it ended up running. 

Tested it further by brushing it onto some scrap shelving with 518 added...meh. Still didn't lay down like it did several years ago. 

I feel like I always have to add this when Breakthrough is mentioned. There are at least 3 versions of this stuff around (based on VOC levels). They are by NO MEANS equal performers. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Advance or Alkyd satin impervo. Smart prime by Zinnser. TSP and festool sander.


----------



## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

This is Advance semi gloss


----------

