# Sikkens Failure



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Has anyone ever removed a failed Sikkens coating by chem stripper downstreaming?


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## tsunamicontract (May 3, 2008)

usually strippers are caustic so I would run it through an all plastic and rubber (non aluminum) pump sprayer or something, I would think there may be aluminum stuff somewhere along the line between the downstream set up to the wand. I was thinking maybe I could get one of those battery charged pump sprayers and put a super long hose on it, maybe that would work . . . .


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> Has anyone ever removed a failed Sikkens coating by chem stripper downstreaming?


Not thru downstreaming, just apply stripper to a deck with Sikkens using a pump sprayer and mop...


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

MAK-Deco said:


> Not thru downstreaming, just apply stripper to a deck with Sikkens using a pump sprayer and mop...


I'm talking large scale whole house shingle siding Sikkens failure in need of removal.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> I'm talking large scale whole house shingle siding Sikkens failure in need of removal.


That is what I figured you were implying only exp. I have had with removal is for decks...


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## johnisimpson (Oct 5, 2007)

i've only removed it from decks too. the reason for the pump-up sprayer is that downstreaming will dilute your stripper too much. i like tsunami's idea and northern tool or tractor supply sell 15 gallon chemical tanks with a shurflo pump already attached. i know some guys that use setups like that with 100'-200' of hose and they like it fairly well. 
which sikkens product are you stripping? some of them can be tough

john


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

I have a line on a stripper that is supposed to be potent enough to be used in downstreaming and to be able to hang onto verticals...does that seem realistic?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

johnisimpson said:


> which sikkens product are you stripping? some of them can be tough
> john


I'm not sure which product. The house has a brutal lakeside exposure and the film is falling off all over the house. There are some more sheltered areas where it is more intact, but generally mother nature is doing a pretty good job with it.


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## johnisimpson (Oct 5, 2007)

i certainly don't know of every product available, but i've never heard of a caustic stripper that would be strong to "effectively & efficiently" remove sikkens through a downstreamer. if it's ok to say what it is, i might know a little about it. 

john


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## johnisimpson (Oct 5, 2007)

i was hoping it might be the sikkens SRD stain (penetrating oil based) in which case most sodium hydroxide strippers would work but it sounds like the cetol if a film is coming off. sorry to say but your best case scenario would have been if it was the SRD.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

johnisimpson said:


> i certainly don't know of every product available, but i've never heard of a caustic stripper that would be strong to "effectively & efficiently" remove sikkens through a downstreamer. if it's ok to say what it is, i might know a little about it.
> 
> john


When I first started looking at this job, Ken Fenner from Pressure Pros recommended that this product is potent enough to downstream and get the Sikkens off the house, and he has never steered me wrong. Although the product description in the link doesnt claim that it will remove film forming products, Ken said he has seen it work. I think its the only real option. You are right that a worn out penetrating oil would be much easier to eliminate. We did one this spring with Jomax and it cleaned perfectly. The Cetol is much more of a challenge, but its pretty tired. Heres the link: http://theprosealerstore.com/powersolvedsi.htm


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## johnisimpson (Oct 5, 2007)

from reading Ken's posts, i'd say that he does give very good advise. i'll be interested to know how effective it turns out to be. can you take some pictures during the process?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

johnisimpson said:


> from reading Ken's posts, i'd say that he does give very good advise. i'll be interested to know how effective it turns out to be. can you take some pictures during the process?


Yes.


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## tsunamicontract (May 3, 2008)

> owersolve™ DSI (Down Stream Injectable) Wood Deck Stripper (Step 1) is unique that it will remove most non-film forming oil and latex finishes. This stripper is capable of being down streamed through your injector on your pressure washer


There ya have it Scott. Sounds like this if the film forming Sikkens. I would still figure out what your dilution ratio on your pw is and dillute some stripper that much and see if it does the job but I would get ready to try this idea


> northern tool or tractor supply sell 15 gallon chemical tanks with a shurflo pump already attached. i know some guys that use setups like that with 100'-200' of hose and they like it fairly well.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

I am definitely going with Ken Fenners recommendation for this project. I was just curious if anyone out here had done a downstream wash on a house with flaky failing Sikkens...always like to share what works and what doesnt with people. I will do a thread for this project like I did with our other high profile wash job this spring, the one called "Thanks Guys". I applied everything I had learned on painttalk over the winter about washing and got by far the best result ever. This Sikkens job is totally uncharted territory and I am grateful to have Ken and you guys to brainstorm with in situations like this.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> I am definitely going with Ken Fenners recommendation for this project. I was just curious if anyone out here had done a downstream wash on a house with flaky failing Sikkens...always like to share what works and what doesnt with people. I will do a thread for this project like I did with our other high profile wash job this spring, the one called "Thanks Guys". I applied everything I had learned on painttalk over the winter about washing and got by far the best result ever. This Sikkens job is totally uncharted territory and I am grateful to have Ken and you guys to brainstorm with in situations like this.



By the description of the product its ingredient is sodium hydroxide which is in most heavy duty strippers. I have used HD80 on thick film on decks and has worked great, that product is on the site also. I wonder what make this other product down stream-able than others??

BTW Scott HD80 was a recommendation from Ken as well, just not for use in the same situation as you are discussing..


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

MAK-Deco said:


> By the description of the product its ingredient is sodium hydroxide which is in most heavy duty strippers. I have used HD80 on thick film on decks and has worked great, that product is on the site also. I wonder what make this other product down stream-able than others??
> 
> BTW Scott HD80 was a recommendation from Ken as well, just not for use in the same situation as you are discussing..


MAK thats good to know about, thanks!


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## tsunamicontract (May 3, 2008)

Good Luck Scott, if you can downstream it will save so much time. You will have to keep a thread going on the progress, maybe some Jason style photos too 
I for sure would test your striper before you commit to a price. Though Sev might recommend doing it T&M :whistling2:


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

tsunamicontract said:


> Good Luck Scott, if you can downstream it will save so much time. You will have to keep a thread going on the progress, maybe some Jason style photos too
> I for sure would test your striper before you commit to a price. Though Sev might recommend doing it T&M :whistling2:


I cant do a test when pressure washing. I cant stop. I love that stuff. If I unload the machine, the house is getting done.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

This is how much of it looks....


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## tsunamicontract (May 3, 2008)

hahah alright Scott, maybe you could have Sev come up and it would magically turn into a different house in the after picture :thumbup:


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

tsunamicontract said:


> hahah alright Scott, maybe you could have Sev come up and it would magically turn into a different house in the after picture :thumbup:


Nope, this is a case for the super sleuthes...old VP and Dr. GMack. I would not let my buddy miss out on the fun that job is going to be!


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## painttofish (Aug 28, 2007)

Have you discussed corn cob blasting the siding? I know of a biodegradable stripper that removes sikkens. It can't be downstreamed but can be sprayed on, and pressure cleaned. here is a before and after strip. I would recommend T&M because you do have to go back and apply a second coat in some areas.


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## painttofish (Aug 28, 2007)

And the big finish! We did not strip the whole house, only the exposed failed sections. Cobb blasting is the best method for stripping Sikkens.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

I'd like to hear more about this. What was the stripping product and why is it called cobb blasting?


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## tsunamicontract (May 3, 2008)

they blast little corn cob chunks at the house. Its like sand blasting with cob I believe. Best part is Crow probably grows it for ya too


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## painttofish (Aug 28, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> I'd like to hear more about this. What was the stripping product and why is it called cobb blasting?



Corn cob blasting is like sandblasting but using small pieces of corn cobb. You need quite a set up to do it. You may not have anyone near you who can provide this service. Your best bet may be to contact builders of log homes and ask them if they know of any cobb blasters. There is only one company where I live who provides this service. 3$ sqft. It works awsome though, and with no chem's. The job above I used Coronado's Maxum-Prep stripper. It is biodegradable and I use it on all my decks that need stripping as well. The temperature needs to be up for it to work well (above 70). Like I said above, I would not recommend this product for stripping a whole sikkens house. We used it on the handrails and a few sections of siding.


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## Primer Guy (Apr 20, 2007)

I've had a lot of experience with Sikkens Cetol on my boat. Been using it on the teak trim for 15 years. About every 5 years I strip it off and start over again. I've had success stripping using Peel Away which is the same as Peel Away 7. I doubt pressure washing would work without damaging the wood. Cetol looks great if it is consistently maintained which means recoating every season. It does not hold up to abrasion very well and eventually the UV gets it. As it fails, most of it will peel off leaving only the embedded stuff which you will have to mechanically remove with a sander. Yuck!. For the record, all the exterior handrails, toerail (60 lineal feet) coaming boards, hatch boards, and eyebrow trim on my boat are teak. It is a neverending battle to keep them looking nice and Cetol is a lower maintenace alternative to varnish.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Primer Guy said:


> As it fails, most of it will peel off leaving only the embedded stuff which you will have to mechanically remove with a sander.


The film is mostly failing. I can assure you I will not be laying a sander on this house.


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## painttofish (Aug 28, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> The film is mostly failing. I can assure you I will not be laying a sander on this house.



I would highly recommend looking for a cobb blaster. Peel Bond does work but you have to deal with, well...... Peel Bond.


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## tsunamicontract (May 3, 2008)

Scott, any progress on this project?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

tsunamicontract said:


> Scott, any progress on this project?


Waiting for approval of the proposal, which was rather detailed.


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## tsunamicontract (May 3, 2008)

hope you get it. We have a lot of Sikkens log and siding coated homes that are peeling around here. I personally think that you would be better off with a different product because once it peels, which it will, it is such a paint. Price of beauty I guess though.


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

sell them on the maintenance, so they wont have such an expenditure in the near future,,,


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## painttofish (Aug 28, 2007)

johnthepainter said:


> sell them on the maintenance, so they wont have such an expenditure in the near future,,,



Yes, show them the back of the can that says every 2-3 years for maintaining exposed areas and 3-4 on non-exposed. Then show them what a small failure looks like and what that small failure can turn into, and what it will cost them to strip the product $$$$$$$$.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

No, the whole idea with this strip job is to get away from the film forming cetol type coatings and back to a lower maintenance penetrating oil which can still maintain every 2-3 years, just not have to deal with flaking Sikkens.


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## painttofish (Aug 28, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> No, the whole idea with this strip job is to get away from the film forming cetol type coatings and back to a lower maintenance penetrating oil which can still maintain every 2-3 years, just not have to deal with flaking Sikkens.



If you maintain Sikkens every 2-3 years you won't have flaking Sikkens. How is the "lower maintenance penetrating oil" any lower maintenance if you have to apply it ever 2-3 yrs? It is all relative. Maintain your coating!


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

painttofish said:


> If you maintain Sikkens every 2-3 years you won't have flaking Sikkens. How is the "lower maintenance penetrating oil" any lower maintenance if you have to apply it ever 2-3 yrs? It is all relative. Maintain your coating!


When penetrating oils age, they fade rather than flake. It is much easier to wash them and add more oil than it is to deal with a film that is in various stages of an uglier and more labor intensive deterioration every 2-3 years.

Sikkens and other film coatings die a much uglier and less noble death. Penetrating oils age like a fine wine if maintained.


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