# garage floor coating fail



## gunnzzz04 (Jul 26, 2013)

First time posting on here I can not find anything online to help me hopefully you guys have the answer.

So I was using valspar 2 part wb garage floor epoxy and after the coat dried I had flashing every where which I have never had with other products like h&c or armorseal.
My client was not very happy so I asked a whole bunch of people at lowes and called a few reps they all recommended to do another coat and flakes which I thought was stupid because its a 1 coat product but I did it and then I got all this paint dragging as you can see in the close up picture its like the catalyst didn't harden or the colorant was not mixed but I followed the directions and the second coat of paint the nap was like filled with colorants and gummy hard like the hardener did nothing to the paint or something and so I tried three different roller covers and three different gallons three different buckets / trays they all did the same thing on the second coat. I applied the second coat 24 hours after the first.
I have done over 20 floors and none of them have turned out like this and every valspar rep or lowes employee/manager is an idiot.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

You don't patch the cracks?


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## gunnzzz04 (Jul 26, 2013)

Homeowner did not want cracks patched -_-


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

This is exactly why we refused to use the box shelf crap floor coatings, we had one fail like this not Valspa another company, we switch to the industrial coatings only for garage floor coatings. We had to strip the old failing coating off and start over. The industrial coatings are expensive but so far 10 garage floors later no issues at all.
How was the prep done? did you scarify the floor first? Do your moisture testing?
Is the issue just in the spot of the close up or the whole foor? If it's the floor I would have to sy there is an underlying issue that either needs to be corrected or this garage floor is one of those that will never accept a god floor coating.
Good luck and kep this updated I am very interested in what the case and fix will be.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Looking at the first picture it almost looks like there is a stain on the floor which is causing the coating to look discolored and failing
Myself I do not believe in any of these so called one coat coverage products, not all can be done in lab conditions, in the real world little thing can screw up a paint job bad.
Why would the HO not have the cracks fixed, I think they look like crap.


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## gunnzzz04 (Jul 26, 2013)

Tested with plastic and tape came back fine. Masked a lil bit of walls and prepped with muriatic acid and a push broom floor felt a lil smooth after it dried but was completely clean so I used the valspar etch and it was roughed up enough to take the paint cleaned waited a day and painted. Im going to look at it today to see what it looks like valspar rep wont come out till monday if this was armorseal my sw rep would have been out right away eeeek


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

cdpainting said:


> Looking at the first picture it almost looks like there is a stain on the floor which is causing the coating to look discolored and failing
> Myself I do not believe in any of these so called one coat coverage products, not all can be done in lab conditions, in the real world little thing can screw up a paint job bad.
> Why would the HO not have the cracks fixed, I think they look like crap.


One thing I don't do to much experimenting on is floor coatings, meaning I don't just play with any product specially when there only 120 for a kit. . It's sucks to deal with these failures and if you do them regularly it will happen. Cheaping out on a product can cost huge and I wouldn't want to be grinding up a coating I played down. 

My standards for concrete coatings is always use a superior product, all floors get a grind at prep and I will still charge double cause the liability is always great when doing a floor.

My suggestion to the op is do a test sample with a better compatible product, check for adhesion and if the staining continues, if not I think your looking at a full grind redo. I hope you have been charging accordingly and your not one of the 800 dollar guys.

....


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

ewingpainting.net said:


> One thing I don't do to much experimenting on is floor coatings, meaning I don't just play with any product specially when there only 120 for a kit. . It's sucks to deal with these failures and if you do them regularly it will happen. Cheaping out on a product can cost huge and I wouldn't want to be grinding up a coating I played down.
> 
> My standards for concrete coatings is always use a superior product, all floors get a grind at prep and I will still charge double cause the liability is always great when doing a floor.
> 
> ...


We had one fail and we charged good money for it, grinding fresh coatings is a pain in the arse.


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## gunnzzz04 (Jul 26, 2013)

I thought I was fairly priced at 3000 for a 3 car garage but never have ran into this issue


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## paintpimp (Jun 29, 2007)

gunnzzz04 said:


> I thought I was fairly priced at 3000 for a 3 car garage but never have ran into this issue


$3000 and you didn't go with Armorseal? You won't make that mistake again. 

I see $3-$4 sq ft for two coat of solvent epoxy full broadcast and 2 coats urethane.

Did the Valspar product have a sweat in time? If you start rolling it out before the sweat in time or if the weather is cool, you can get variations in the color like you do.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

We are around the same price for a 3 bay and we would never consider using box stock coatings, one failure was enough for me. For that kind of money you should really be using a much much better product.


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## NACE (May 16, 2008)

gunnzzz04 said:


> First time posting on here I can not find anything online to help me hopefully you guys have the answer.
> 
> So I was using valspar 2 part wb garage floor epoxy and after the coat dried I had flashing every where which I have never had with other products like h&c or armorseal.
> My client was not very happy so I asked a whole bunch of people at lowes and called a few reps they all recommended to do another coat and flakes which I thought was stupid because its a 1 coat product but I did it and then I got all this paint dragging as you can see in the close up picture its like the catalyst didn't harden or the colorant was not mixed but I followed the directions and the second coat of paint the nap was like filled with colorants and gummy hard like the hardener did nothing to the paint or something and so I tried three different roller covers and three different gallons three different buckets / trays they all did the same thing on the second coat. I applied the second coat 24 hours after the first.
> I have done over 20 floors and none of them have turned out like this and every valspar rep or lowes employee/manager is an idiot.


That looks like an amine blush or poly amides not evaporating properly due to surface temp or high humidity. What was the surface temp? What was the prep? What was the dew point and humidity at the time? If its sticky its likely an amine. Or it could be surfactant if its an acrylic epoxy. Don't use the kits. The only one that's any good is the Garage Guard which is an amine resin. If you want trouble free garage floors. DO NOT use acid. Grind or shot blast. Check for moisture. Check for curing compounds. Insure proper profile. Insure temps and humidity are right. Insure penetration of the system. Use high performance and topcoat with a clear. Charge according. Never cheat on a floor. Over charge if possible because despite 100% proper prep products and system? 10% will fail. Search floor threads. There is some good info from experiences guys


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## gunnzzz04 (Jul 26, 2013)

Thank you guys for the replies I really appreciate the help


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

Doesn't get good reviews on the website. Similar problems. 

That is a poor coating for a "professional" to use, especially for the amount you are charging. If you have any report with a paint store, not Lowes or HD, then you would know you can get the premium high solids epoxies for less than those kits. Also, learn to patch cracks, even if you were trying to show what a great job you did, it looks like chit. It looks like the epoxy is all up the wall, maybe learn to install cove base?


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

We are working on our 4th garage floor coating systeem in 10 days. I could do these all summer long.


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## gunnzzz04 (Jul 26, 2013)

Already grinded back to bare concrete putting on new coating tomorrow what a fun week it was a bad batch catalyst from lowes got my money back


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

gunnzzz04 said:


> Already grinded back to bare concrete putting on new coating tomorrow what a fun week it was a bad batch catalyst from lowes got my money back


If only they'd refund you your labor. I've heard of BM doing that.


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## Moonstruck (Jul 31, 2013)

gunnzzz04 said:


> Already grinded back to bare concrete putting on new coating tomorrow what a fun week it was a bad batch catalyst from lowes got my money back


You should be able to get some of your labor covered. Put pressure on the Lowes store manager and on Valspar customer service. Escalate it to Lowe's Customer Care if you have to. Trust me on this.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Do whaat Moon is saying, don't lay down with out a fight, if their product failed because of a bad batch I would be knocking on their door with a bill in hand.


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## Delta Painting (Apr 27, 2010)

Yessir bill them.. If a bad batch had me redoing a floor you can bet yer ass they would be paying for the added cost of replacement product and labor...


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

Im glad I read this thread, it helps re enforce my policy of we don't do floors period.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Dave Mac said:


> Im glad I read this thread, it helps re enforce my policy of we don't do floors period.


Dave if these are done right with a good product it will come out great, prep is key. It takes us roughly 10-12 hrs to completely do a 2 bay garage, we make a killing on these for such a short amount of work. I want to do 10+ a season next year.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Delta Painting said:


> Yessir bill them.. If a bad batch had me redoing a floor you can bet yer ass they would be paying for the added cost of replacement product and labor...


Include a fee for your inconvenience, phone time to get it figured out, and I say include $20.00 for bacon.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

NACE said:


> That looks like an amine blush or poly amides not evaporating properly due to surface temp or high humidity. What was the surface temp? What was the prep? What was the dew point and humidity at the time? If its sticky its likely an amine. Or it could be surfactant if its an acrylic epoxy. Don't use the kits. The only one that's any good is the Garage Guard which is an amine resin. If you want trouble free garage floors. DO NOT use acid. Grind or shot blast. Check for moisture. Check for curing compounds. Insure proper profile. Insure temps and humidity are right. Insure penetration of the system. Use high performance and topcoat with a clear. Charge according. Never cheat on a floor. Over charge if possible because despite 100% proper prep products and system? 10% will fail. Search floor threads. There is some good info from experiences guys


Why do you say this NACE? We used to do them that way all the time, without failure that I'm aware of anyway. But I always gave them a light baking soda rinse as well, and used armorseal 1000 almost exclusively.

Is it just because of the higher risk of failure or is there a 'chemical' reason?
We grind them all now, just curious.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Bender said:


> Is it just because of the higher risk of failure or is there a 'chemical' reason?
> We grind them all now, just curious.


My understanding is acid etch adds a ton of moisture to the concrete and doesn't always ensure proper surface profile. The products in most kits fall short in overall performance.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Looking out my front door watching guys put on the clear coat of a three color elite crete system. Checked it out last night and the metallic looks sweet. 

I don't think I would ever put my name on one of those garage kits.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

straight_lines said:


> I don't think I would ever put my name on one of those garage kits.


Not a shelf box kit system no way would we put our name on it. I want to check out the metllics on a floor, I have 4 sample kits from 4 mfg's.


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## PaintChem (Feb 5, 2013)

Bender said:


> Why do you say this NACE? We used to do them that way all the time, without failure that I'm aware of anyway. But I always gave them a light baking soda rinse as well, and used armorseal 1000 almost exclusively.
> 
> Is it just because of the higher risk of failure or is there a 'chemical' reason?
> We grind them all now, just curious.



Pay close attention to the comments these guys are leaving you. As a professional, you do not want to be using epoxy-amines (waterbased).

You should be special ordering 2k solvent-based epoxy for the floor and 2k solvent-based urethane for the topcoat. I think the rustoleum "professional" epoxy shield kits are solvent based if you must get one from a store. Solvent based will almost always give you a "fighting chance" against unpredictable substrates.

Always properly vent, test, and be safe.


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## Ultimate (Mar 20, 2011)

straight_lines said:


> Looking out my front door watching guys put on the clear coat of a three color elite crete system. Checked it out last night and the metallic looks sweet.
> 
> I don't think I would ever put my name on one of those garage kits.


Posts like this do wonders for my curiosity and should always contain links and photos...


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## NACE (May 16, 2008)

Bender said:


> Why do you say this NACE? We used to do them that way all the time, without failure that I'm aware of anyway. But I always gave them a light baking soda rinse as well, and used armorseal 1000 almost exclusively.
> 
> Is it just because of the higher risk of failure or is there a 'chemical' reason?
> We grind them all now, just curious.


Acid does a few things. First as it hits the floor it reacts with alkalinity and begins to turn to salt water. As it spreads out it still reacts but its etching properties are weakening. Acid vapors attack electrical and accelerate corrosion of electrical contacts. Also attacks metal, drains, columns, garage door components. The profile acid creates is not enough to support a high performance system. Many contractors did not neutralize and caused Pre mature failure. Curing compounds commonly used in concrete are unaffected by acid. Acid is no longer an accepted prep standard for NACE, SSPC, or ICRI. Mechanical grinding is quicker and creates a better profile. It sounds like you were etching properly. Many inexperienced contractors do not. Pouring acid on the floor and mopping it out is not sufficient prep.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Rbriggs82 said:


> If only they'd refund you your labor. I've heard of BM doing that.


I've had two failures in my 28 years of painting due to bad product. Both times Benjamin Moore stood by me and compensated me for my materials AND labor. I haven't forgotten that, and am extremely loyal to them in part because of it.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

NACE said:


> Acid does a few things. First as it hits the floor it reacts with alkalinity and begins to turn to salt water. As it spreads out it still reacts but its etching properties are weakening. Acid vapors attack electrical and accelerate corrosion of electrical contacts. Also attacks metal, drains, columns, garage door components. The profile acid creates is not enough to support a high performance system. Many contractors did not neutralize and caused Pre mature failure. Curing compounds commonly used in concrete are unaffected by acid. Acid is no longer an accepted prep standard for NACE, SSPC, or ICRI. Mechanical grinding is quicker and creates a better profile. It sounds like you were etching properly. Many inexperienced contractors do not. Pouring acid on the floor and mopping it out is not sufficient prep.


Thanks NACE. As always, you are a boon to the industry


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

cdpainting said:


> Dave if these are done right with a good product it will come out great, prep is key. It takes us roughly 10-12 hrs to completely do a 2 bay garage, we make a killing on these for such a short amount of work. I want to do 10+ a season next year.



What's it cost to rent a grinder, or do you own one?


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## Roamer (Jul 5, 2010)

We pay in the neighborhood of $500/day for a walk behind grinder. Essentially, you are buying its blades.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Roamer said:


> We pay in the neighborhood of $500/day for a walk behind grinder. Essentially, you are buying its blades.


Wow! We pay $250.00
Crazy, the geographical differences.

Next time use my acct and send me a benny


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

My grinder cost is around $200 day as well.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Do yhe grinders make it dusty?


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## Andyman (Feb 21, 2009)

There are differences in grinders as better ones cost more. Single, dual, gas, electric, ect. Not just rental price


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

TJ Paint said:


> Do yhe grinders make it dusty?


Not at all. I rent a vac with the grinder, and run them together. I looked into buying both, and the vac costs more than the grinder! I do a quick additional vac after the grind and have not had a failure due to poor prep yet.
Had a failure due to 2 part getting frozen before it was delivered to me, but that's a story for another day....


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