# Bullseye 123 - why all the hate?



## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Why the hate for Bullseye 123? I have had nothing but positive experiences using it (for interior projects), and I like the way it levels out. (We are limited with our selection in this region). I understand and appreciate BIN primer when sprayed or for spot priming, but lets be honest here, it is not good for brush and roller. 

I have had failures with a couple of S-W Primers, and the slow-drying time of some of them have been problematic for me in the past. 

For that reason I have stopped using SW primers and have continued using one that I have had zero issues with.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

I dont think theres 'hate' for it, but there are better primers out there. You just need to know its limitations. I dont see why you have a problem cutting and rolling with bin either. Just use a 1/4" weenie roller and a cheap brush. It sands smooth as glass .


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Been my goto primer for years depending on the situation. Some guys on here have mentioned that they're changing the formula/thinning it/doesn't bond like it used to, etc. I'm starting to agree with them, but the alternatives available around here aren't exactly promising either.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

I do not dislike 123, but I only use it when I need a quick turn around. I used it last week on some exterior work for someone selling their home. They only needed a few windows painted, and the job was 30mins away. So, I really could not wait foe an oil to dry.



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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Ya, it honestly depends what your using it for..? Great to have it in the truck for general all around spot priming. However if you are wanting it to specifically be a "bonding" primer I say fail. Or if you need to stop tannin bleed. Fail. 
But to prime a little bare drywall or spot rime some bare wood etc. It's totally fine..

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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

The only thing I don't like about Waterborne 123 is that it's not a very good stain blocker . Other than that, it is my go to multi purpose waterborne primer.

BIN is an absolutely fantastic product for water damage repairs, smoke damage, surface contaminants, high surface tension bonding, patch repair sealer, etc. But it can cause a lot of complaints with the odor. Clean up is not the easiest. And although you can brush and roll with it, it is not the most user friendly.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Ya, it honestly depends what your using it for..? Great to have it in the truck for general all around spot priming. However if you are wanting it to specifically be a "bonding" primer I say fail. Or if you need to stop tannin bleed. Fail.
> But to prime a little bare drywall or spot rime some bare wood etc. It's totally fine..
> 
> Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk


You beat me to it! I agree with most of what you posted with the exception of limiting 123 to spot priming. I trust 123 as a full bare drywall primer even when I don't use a PVA sealer as a first coat treatment. 123 also provides a decent sheen holdout for top coats.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Woodco said:


> I dont think theres 'hate' for it, but there are better primers out there. You just need to know its limitations. I dont see why you have a problem cutting and rolling with bin either. Just use a 1/4" weenie roller and a cheap brush. It sands smooth as glass .


I agree, for adhesion, stain-blocking, tannin bleed, and sanding purposes there is no better primer than BIN. It is my go-to for spot priming and tannins. 
For cabinets and the like, you have won me over considering BIN as one of the the best primers available.

I don't like it for large areas interior, or for exteriors in general (except spot priming rust stains). I prefer Coverstain for most exterior work (and find it blocks tannins fairly well), and reach for 123 for Interior work where a roller is necessary. The main reason I don't like to roll with BIN is that I find it to be "drippy and splattery" (technical terms). That, and I don't usually carry ammonia with me for clean-up- and wow! Is BIN ever tough to remove from surfaces!!

Coverstain dries to the touch in 15-20 minutes and has excellent adhesion (will stick to glass). Go-to primer for all outdoor priming above 50 degrees. 

*Have you ever used Stainshield as an exterior primer for below 50 degrees? The rep at my paint store recommended it a while back when I needed to prime raw wood and the temps were very cold. It seemed to work for intended purposes (priming) and has held up with no ill effects to this day. 

(okay, now we should all go wish a Happy Mother's Day to loved ones!)


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

Yeah, I wouldnt use bin on large areas, unless there was fire/smoke/odor/water damage on the walls that needed blocking. And 123 would NOT work for that.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Zinsser has been adjusting the label over the years. It used to say "excellent stain blocking" and mentioned water stains which always made me laugh because there's no way it could do that. I don't recall seeing that on the label anymore.



One thing I noticed the other day is that the grey version of 123 is a few dollars cheaper than the white version. Not a big deal, but it did make me curious as to why.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Zinsser has been adjusting the label over the years. It used to say "excellent stain blocking" and mentioned water stains which always made me laugh because there's no way it could do that. I don't recall seeing that on the label anymore.


I haven't noticed that. Great observation. 

I swear, I've given Zinsser Bullseye 123 all the opportunities I could to make it work on stains. I allowed it to dry per recommendation before recoating. I've applied multiple coats when suggested. And I've applied it in the most ideal environmental conditions even Zinsser labs couldn't simulate. But still, no stain blocking properties. 

I don't know why I accept it. It's like a dis-functional relationship with the lies, but the person is so damn charming you keep giving them a pass. Or maybe it's because I like the other family members so much I just ignore it.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

One of their products I'm not a big fan of is their odourless oil primer. It's so freaking spattery it's awful. It also dries so incredibly soft you might as well not even have bothered with it.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Wildbill7145 said:


> One of their products I'm not a big fan of is their odourless oil primer. It's so freaking spattery it's awful. It also dries so incredibly soft you might as well not even have bothered with it.


Love it when you Canadians throw in those extra U's. :whistling2:

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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Love it when you Canadians throw in those extra U's. :whistling2:
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


Love it when I get the red underline spelling warning and I defiantly forage ahead. Seriously, it's a bit of a thing for us sometimes.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Love it when I get the red underline spelling warning and I defiantly forage ahead. Seriously, it's a bit of a thing for us sometimes.


I'm kinda surprised there isn't a British/Canadian version of spell check that would not red underline it. 

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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Love it when you Canadians throw in those extra U's. :whistling2:
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


Look out or I'll come install some crown moulding at your house..  

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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

123 is Walmart's best primer. Nuff said.


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## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

And let's face it, the gov't regs have done nothing to help us painters. Paint mfr's have to constantly change formulas to keep up with the latest environmental issues pushed on them by the gov't.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Gymschu said:


> And let's face it, the gov't regs have done nothing to help us painters. Paint mfr's have to constantly change formulas to keep up with the latest environmental issues pushed on them by the gov't.


and in Bullseye 123's case, keep the pricing virtually the same as it's been for twenty five years. Amazing that they can do that without effecting the quality, isn't it? (Hint-they can't and didn't.)


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## BeerbowerPainting (Jul 31, 2018)

Holland said:


> Why the hate for Bullseye 123? I have had nothing but positive experiences using it (for interior projects), and I like the way it levels out. (We are limited with our selection in this region). I understand and appreciate BIN primer when sprayed or for spot priming, but lets be honest here, it is not good for brush and roller.
> 
> I don't fully agree. Bin can be rolled and brushed fine you just cannot go back into it. Also, it sands really well so you can sand stuff out if necessary. I just had to do 4 smooth doors and didn't feel like cleaning the sprayer with ammonia so I rolled em with a 3/16 nap roller and it worked great. But there's definitely a learning curve with brushing/rolling Bin.


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## BeerbowerPainting (Jul 31, 2018)

I never clean bin brushes or rollers to much work as ammonia is nasty. As for cleaning Bin, Windex is awesome. It will usually clean Bin up easily since it contains ammonia, but without the potent smell of ammonia. Anyone else use Windex?


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## jr.sr. painting (Dec 6, 2013)

I always carry a 1/2 gallon of ammonia. 1 for window cleaning 2 for bin cleaning. Clear ammonia not lemon scented all the way!


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

BeerbowerPainting said:


> I never clean bin brushes or rollers to much work as ammonia is nasty. As for cleaning Bin, Windex is awesome. It will usually clean Bin up easily since it contains ammonia, but without the potent smell of ammonia. Anyone else use Windex?


1 gal ammonia = 1.00 @ dollar store
1 gal Windex = $20.00
1 gal denatured alcohol = $20.00

All excellent BIN solvents. Smell aside, I'm cheap! I'll chose the ammonia any day of the week. And BIN is dissolved so quickly by any of these solvents, clean up really is a snap! But clean-spin-clean again -spin again to avoid residue from drying in roller/brush.


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## BeerbowerPainting (Jul 31, 2018)

I guess to clarify I use Windex to clean a surface that may have gotten splattered by bin, not actual brushes etc. If I did Id definitely use ammonia because as you say it is cheap!


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## jennifertemple (Oct 30, 2011)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Love it when you Canadians throw in those extra U's. :whistling2:
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


 We got our English from the land of it's birth, England's English. We were a colony until 1982 and still use the language we got from Britian.

The enactment of the Statute of Westminster in 1931 recognized Canada as an independent peer coequal with the United Kingdom and thus provided the Parliament of Canada with legislative sovereignty over all federal matters except the power to change the constitutional laws of Canada, which remained under the purview of the Parliament of the United Kingdom. Canada's final vestige of legislative dependence on the United Kingdom was terminated in 1982 with the enactment of the Canada Act, subsequently providing Canada with full legal legislative sovereignty independent of the United Kingdom.


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## jennifertemple (Oct 30, 2011)

BeerbowerPainting said:


> I never clean bin brushes or rollers to much work as ammonia is nasty. As for cleaning Bin, Windex is awesome. It will usually clean Bin up easily since it contains ammonia, but without the potent smell of ammonia. Anyone else use Windex?



I use methyl hydrate, But I don't clean the brushes or roller sleeves, I just use trash brushes and cheaper rollers.


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