# rusty nail heads?



## alan (Feb 17, 2010)

anyone have success using shellac over rusty nail heads on cedar siding?
I just looked at a house and almost every nail is rusty and has rust bleeds around the nail head.
if not sheliac what say you?
In the past I got away with just a shot of cover stain for random rust areas. but I dont want to fool around on a whole house. was also thinking corroeseal or ospho. thanks folks.. I should add setting them in and filling each nail hole is not a option..


----------



## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

I used Mad Dog on a rusty aluminum door a year ago. Saw it two days ago and still no rust. It had been a problem for years. You cannot use a flat paint or stain over it, which I am asuuming you might have on cedar.


----------



## alan (Feb 17, 2010)

Pete the Painter said:


> I used Mad Dog on a rusty aluminum door a year ago. Saw it two days ago and still no rust. It had been a problem for years. You cannot use a flat paint or stain over it, which I am asuuming you might have on cedar.


 I have never tired or have seen mad dog. does it say on the can you can only top coat with a sheen? and i guess my next question would be does a sheen help block rust? the house was stained last time and the owner said the nails where primed with oil last time but failed after two years. 
getting nervous about this one haha.


----------



## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

I've had good luck spotting them with a spray can of Rustolem Rusty Metal primer, then Coverstain over that. Goes pretty quick if you use the spray cans. 

Can't put flat paint over Mad Dog because it's too flexible. Mad Dog flexes with temp change and will crack a non flexible film, like flat paint, on top of it. Yes, it's in the specs. Might not be an issue if you were just spot priming, but I'm not sure if MD is suitable for spot priming. 

I don't think shellac would work very well by itself. B


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

Try Penetrol


----------



## alan (Feb 17, 2010)

Lambrecht said:


> Try Penetrol


can you top coat it with out priming? or will it leave a oily stain on the paint?
I have not used it in 15 years and at that time on to help oil paint flow. thanks


----------



## Boco (May 18, 2013)

Rattle can of SWP marine grade rust primer.


----------



## NACE (May 16, 2008)

Rusty or black? Tannins in Cedar react with galvanized nails. It's a chemical reaction that will always occur. Counter sink prime and fill an option?


----------



## alan (Feb 17, 2010)

NACE said:


> Rusty or black? Tannins in Cedar react with galvanized nails. It's a chemical reaction that will always occur. Counter sink prime and fill an option?


gosh, im in ct as well.. around simsbury. and I hate to say it both black and rusty bleeds. unfortunately sink and fill is not a option. what would you do other wise? maybe ill just go fishing, If this does not pan out. I already lost sleep on this estimate.


----------



## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

alan said:


> I have never tired or have seen mad dog. does it say on the can you can only top coat with a sheen? and i guess my next question would be does a sheen help block rust? the house was stained last time and the owner said the nails where primed with oil last time but failed after two years.
> getting nervous about this one haha.


I think it just has to be eggshell or above. The sheen has nothing to do with blocking just. The primer expands and blocks new rust from forming or old rust from getting to the surface.


----------



## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

Pete the Painter said:


> I think it just has to be eggshell or above. The sheen has nothing to do with blocking just. The primer expands and blocks new rust from forming or old rust from getting to the surface.


I like maddog but not so much for rust. Even with 2 coats I have had minor rust bleed through.

You are right about eggshell or higher with the exception of high gloss. Satin is preferred.


----------



## Gracobucks (May 29, 2011)

Pete the Painter said:


> I used Mad Dog on a rusty aluminum door a year ago. Saw it two days ago and still no rust. It had been a problem for years. You cannot use a flat paint or stain over it, which I am asuuming you might have on cedar.


you sure it was a aluminum door, Pete? From everything I have learnt over the years aluminum doesn't rust. Maybe I am wrong, but I have never seen it.


----------



## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

Bomb can of rust reformer...it comes in black. If you're top coat is a lighter color, then bomb it black then again in your favorite rattle can of white. I like coverstain (or kilz works for this also and dries quicker if that matters)


----------



## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

Gracobucks said:


> you sure it was a aluminum door, Pete? From everything I have learnt over the years aluminum doesn't rust. Maybe I am wrong, but I have never seen it.


You might be right. It might be steel?


----------



## NACE (May 16, 2008)

The chemical reaction of the tannins is reacting with the zinc on the improper and cheaper use of galvanized nails causing the zinc to sacrifice to the tannic acid. The steel no longer has Cathodic protection and starts to rust. The black is the result of the chemical reaction between tannic acid and zinc. Solution. Counter sink, prime, fill, prime paint. Or, pull all fasteners and replace with high grade stainless not the Big a Box stuff from China that is 80% stainless or whatever their crap is. You can do a temp fix by oil priming or aerosol primer and redcoat. The reaction will continue and the eventually rust and turn black.


----------



## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

NACE said:


> The chemical reaction of the tannins is reacting with the zinc on the improper and cheaper use of galvanized nails causing the zinc to sacrifice to the tannic acid. The steel no longer has Cathodic protection and starts to rust. The black is the result of the chemical reaction between tannic acid and zinc. Solution. Counter sink, prime, fill, prime paint. Or, pull all fasteners and replace with high grade stainless not the Big a Box stuff from China that is 80% stainless or whatever their crap is. You can do a temp fix by oil priming or aerosol primer and redcoat. The reaction will continue and the eventually rust and turn black.


:thumbsup:Swapping out the nails is the right way to do it. We've had good luck with siding nails from Swan Secure.

From what I've seen, any other approach is stop gap: a classic case of, "if you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?"

EDIT: as NACE points out, the OP wasn't just talking about the nails rusting.


----------



## Brian C (Oct 8, 2011)

we have this problem a lot down here. I use a nail punch to set the nails, then spot prime with Penetrol. I then follow along and use linseed oil putty for filling the nail holes.


----------



## coastpainter (Mar 2, 2013)

I've had good luck with kem kromic from S&W.


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Its a serious battle with fasteners here on the coast. I have used dozens of primers with mostly disappointing results. I am currently using a marine grade aluminum epoxy we will see how it does in 10-12 months. It's a real pita to use vs a plural component. 

I try to sell maintenance to each home we paint on the beach because in a year's time the nails are rusting again in most cases. We wash and touch it up because we can't find any primer that will work consistently and pulling all the fasteners on these homes would be really expensive. I think many cases it's the low quality of the fasteners and no product will work.


----------



## alan (Feb 17, 2010)

coastpainter said:


> I've had good luck with kem kromic from S&W.


 please do tell. what is it normally used for? is it a primer or finish? can you tint it?


----------



## JayLouis (Nov 16, 2016)

Use the drill bit from Nail Head Gone. It is very fast and will take care of this issue once and for all. As long as the rusting nail head stays on any wood surface or counter sunk it will bleed.


----------



## JayLouis (Nov 16, 2016)

Best luck I have had is to remove the nail or nail head. Use the claw side of a nail puller to remove the nail or easier, take the nail head off with the drill bit from Nail Head Gone.
Happy Painting


----------



## fipple (Oct 12, 2016)

alan said:


> anyone have success using shellac over rusty nail heads on cedar siding?
> I just looked at a house and almost every nail is rusty and has rust bleeds around the nail head.
> if not sheliac what say you?
> In the past I got away with just a shot of cover stain for random rust areas. but I dont want to fool around on a whole house. was also thinking corroeseal or ospho. thanks folks.. I should add setting them in and filling each nail hole is not a option..


Oxide primar


----------

