# acid etching/macro epoxy w/flake



## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

I have a job coming up where the concrete was never painted. Sherwin reccomended that it be acid etched....which sounded easy but now I'm having second thoughts.....

Antone ever acid etched for pre paint prep?

I will be pressure washing...acid etching...applying two coats macro epoxy and then throwing the flakes....which I've never done either...

Anyone have any techniques for throwing the flakes?

Will also be doing some concrete repair....

Its in the service bay of a Chevy dealership......


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Acid etching might work but its by no means a sure thing. The concrete should look like 180 sand paper when the coating goes on. If its slick to begin with acid may not work. Look into diamond grinding as an alternative. I've seen and heard so many horror stories of product failure because of insufficient prep on concrete.


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

joshmays1976 said:


> Acid etching might work but its by no means a sure thing. The concrete should look like 180 sand paper when the coating goes on. If its slick to begin with acid may not work. Look into diamond grinding as an alternative. I've seen and heard so many horror stories of product failure because of insufficient prep on concrete.


Not sure on the whole thing, Sw just said to etch it if there was never any coating on it.....


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

I actually talked to a SW rep the other day, he came over to demo some stuff to us. 

Anyway, long story short, we got on this topic and he said it's a 2 or 3 based epoxy system.

After prep/etch:

1 - epoxy
1 - epoxy + flakes
1 - epoxy over flakes

Thought that was interesting. Don't know if that's true or not, never done these type of coatings before.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

A service bay at the local Chevy dealer was done, looked beautiful, and then failed. Had to be redone.

I have literally swept cured epoxy off a garage floor a few days after it was finished from improper neutralizing/rinsing of the acid prep.

A local garage floor "specialist" is kind of known for failures after acid prep. Also used the kits, not industrial grade stuff.

Our BM rep wishes painters would stop doing floors due to the large percentage of callbacks and failures.


I would look at an aliphatic urethane topcoat for that project. But, we are not epoxy flooring experts. Only done a couple projects.


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

DeanV said:


> A service bay at the local Chevy dealer was done, looked beautiful, and then failed. Had to be redone.
> 
> I have literally swept cured epoxy off a garage floor a few days after it was finished from improper neutralizing/rinsing of the acid prep.
> 
> ...


Could it be better to just paint it and call it a day? Skip this acid etching....

Macro epoxy won't just hold itself?


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

You are talking floor, not walls right?


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

DeanV said:


> You are talking floor, not walls right?


Concrete floor yes


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## kmp (Jan 30, 2011)

The best way I found for broadcasting flakes was to get apair of spiked shoes to walk on the epoxy when wet to get an even pattern and coverage,especially if the ho wants more flakes than the little bag of flakes has in it.I bought mine for around 30$ from s/w but I have heard of guy's using golf shoes,maybe with new cleats.


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

kmp said:


> The best way I found for broadcasting flakes was to get apair of spiked shoes to walk on the epoxy when wet to get an even pattern and coverage,especially if the ho wants more flakes than the little bag of flakes has in it.I bought mine for around 30$ from s/w but I have heard of guy's using golf shoes,maybe with new cleats.


I have some spikes...good idea...


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Full coverage flake or light flake? For non-full flake, throw flakes up on the air, not down to ground. This disperses them more evenly.


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

DeanV said:


> Full coverage flake or light flake? For non-full flake, throw flakes up on the air, not down to ground. This disperses them more evenly.


We really didn't get that detailed....but I did hear to throw up as you say...


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

richmondpainting said:


> Could it be better to just paint it and call it a day? Skip this acid etching....
> 
> Macro epoxy won't just hold itself?


If it doesn't need to last much longer than that day you should be ok.


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

joshmays1976 said:


> If it doesn't need to last much longer than that day you should be ok.


I had no idea it was so serious....I've done basement floors with porch and floor which have held up good.....considering this is an epoxy...I can't see why it wouldn't work.....I get cars will be driving on it but idk.....

I'm going to talk a buddy who's dad owns an epoxy floor company...might just see if he wants to take it off my hands....

I thought it was gunna be a simple brush and roll and throw some flakes....Google made the acid etching sound easy....


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

Richmond, have you read your website? You can do it!


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

RCP said:


> Richmond, have you read your website? You can do it!


Lol that's funny stuff.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Lol that's funny stuff.


I think he is just testing if Dean knows how to do it..... :thumbup:


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> I think he is just testing if Dean knows how to do it..... :thumbup:


Shoot, I feel silly now. Richmond should be teaching me based on his website.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

RCP said:


> Richmond, have you read your website? You can do it!


That's fooked up on richmonds part. Its even more fooked up on Footbridges part.


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

Is the whole idea of this forum to chase new members off? 

Cuse that's what it seems like everyone's intent is daily....ever wonder why its so dry and there is a lack of participation?


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Maybe we should be calling footbridge for advise, they seem to know what they're doing.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

....


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

Acid etch is a waste of time, and a recipe for failure. Diamond grind that floor. Plan on that, then choose a good product. Most painters are awful at garage floors. It is usually done by specialty companies...sub it/give it to your friend's dad's company and maybe watch how they do it, if they let you!

Or, research the hell out of how to do it right, and be meticulous. Maybe plan on not making a mint on it, but learn how to nail that type of project.

The prep has to be done just right or it does not matter what you coat it with, it will fail, and you will be paying someone else how to do it. That's a great story for a business to have floating around....:no:


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

kdpaint said:


> Acid etch is a waste of time, and a recipe for failure. Diamond grind that floor. Plan on that, then choose a good product. Most painters are awful at garage floors. It is usually done by specialty companies...sub it/give it to your friend's dad's company and maybe watch how they do it, if they let you!
> 
> Or, research the hell out of how to do it right, and be meticulous. Maybe plan on not making a mint on it, but learn how to nail that type of project.
> 
> The prep has to be done just right or it does not matter what you coat it with, it will fail, and you will be paying someone else how to do it. That's a great story for a business to have floating around....:no:



He already landed the job. Why help him now? He sells himself as an expert. Its one thing to give advice to someone seeking it on the prospect of a job, not to one who has already commited to doing the work. Check out his website, he doesn't need help.

As I said before richmond, its plagarism. Its lying. Its unethical. Its a steaifht scumbag move to offer services to potential clients in an area you have no skills in. Your the expert acordinf to your website, you figure it out. I have no grace for your lack of business ethics.


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

First off: NEVER acid etch!! A concrete floor like what you have needs to be shot-blasted or diamond grind. The acid eats the top layer of concrete off. Yes, this was recommended long, long, ago in a galaxy far away, but SW should never recommend this, unless you are concrete staining. A pro would grind.

Flake dispersion. You either throw them into the air and let them rain down, never throw them to the ground, they will clump. I would try a little hand-held fertilizer machine that would toss them. I have always wanted to try it.

I haven't been on this site to long, but I like it for the info. I have posted a few times but don't based on what you are describing. But...I will say this. Most of recent posts are really IMO dumb!! Some of the stuff you and others post about is pretty boring but gets emotions stirred up because the content is either what your website says you should know or a painter already should know based on a minimal amount of experience. Like all forums, most of the old members, even a year see the same questions posted by newbies and start taking a different tone or to a new level of sarcasm. Tis is life to the same degree.


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

Thank you for all the help guys...Im going to look into the diamond grinding a bit.... You can rest assured no matter if i decide to sub it... hire some one...or do it myself ...it will be done right and be warranted.....

Thanks for all the helpful insight.....I appreciate it...


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## optimal (Feb 5, 2010)

If the foor has grease and dirt build up wash then Diamond or shot blast and apply your epoxy floor. If the floor is pretty clean skip washing.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

The trick is getting the chips to look even


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

richmondpainting said:


> Thank you for all the help guys...Im going to look into the diamond grinding a bit.... You can rest assured no matter if i decide to sub it... hire some one...or do it myself ...it will be done right and be warranted.....
> 
> Thanks for all the helpful insight.....I appreciate it...


The reason you catch so much chit here is because you land a job not knowing what it will take to actually do it. 

You should know by now that in applying coatings doing proper prep work is essential to a durable job that you can stand behind. 

Without knowing how much labor would be involved in doing the prep you can't come up with an accurate bid. Its impossible, and you just submitted a somewhat educated guess or used someone else's numbers. Somewhere in your service area there are several professionals who know how to do this floor that probably lost this job because you underbid them. 

This is why this site of people who know what they are doing, and how to price it don't want to help.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

I never saw the website. Too Fn funny. Drivimg down wages and standards since 2011!

Hey yo, take a pic of the Golden gate and the Brooklyn Bridge. Open up a bridge paimtimg division. Just add a tab with the pics....Good money in bridge painting,yo.


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

Oden said:


> I never saw the website. Too Fn funny. Drivimg down wages and standards since 2011!
> 
> Hey yo, take a pic of the Golden gate and the Brooklyn Bridge. Open up a bridge paimtimg division. Just add a tab with the pics....Good money in bridge painting,yo.


That's a great idea.....might even have to bid a few water towers that are coming up too aye......free pages...might as well add some more ..right?


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

richmondpainting said:


> That's a great idea.....might even have to bid a few water towers that are coming up too aye......free pages...might as well add some more ..right?












with graphics...


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

Oden said:


> with graphics...


More money.....for sure...


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## bskerley (Apr 15, 2011)

You are all 100% wrong about getting completely even broadcasts on the Flakes and I am going to give you my secret for FREE!! 
Everyone likes something for free. Here it Goes.....

Wagner texture sprayer. 

TADA!!!

Honestly though, it is amazing, will shoot a decent distance if you want to keep off the epoxy, if you have spikes, even better.


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## mblosik (Jan 3, 2009)

richmondpainting said:


> Is the whole idea of this forum to chase new members off?
> 
> Cuse that's what it seems like everyone's intent is daily....ever wonder why its so dry and there is a lack of participation?


JC.....know what you are doing before offering it as a service. Diamond grind or shotblast to create a proper profile....and only if the floor is newer than 1980. acid etching can create a sludge that will cause premature failure.


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## mblosik (Jan 3, 2009)

richmondpainting said:


> Is the whole idea of this forum to chase new members off?
> 
> Cuse that's what it seems like everyone's intent is daily....ever wonder why its so dry and there is a lack of participation?


nooo...not even close. the whole idea is to bounce ideas of each other, share information, etc, but when your ideas and practices are detrimental to the painting community as a whole, and literally insane, you will be ridiculed at no charge by members who think you may be crazy. 

Be a new member all you want, just don't expect worship at your feet when you are taking on projects that you have zero clue about doing properly, and chase off advice from those who have paved the way for you. JC...acid etching? i cannot think of a worse way to start a garage floor.


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

mblosik said:


> nooo...not even close. the whole idea is to bounce ideas of each other, share information, etc, but when your ideas and practices are detrimental to the painting community as a whole, and literally insane, you will be ridiculed at no charge by members who think you may be crazy.
> 
> Be a new member all you want, just don't expect worship at your feet when you are taking on projects that you have zero clue about doing properly, and chase off advice from those who have paved the way for you. JC...acid etching? i cannot think of a worse way to start a garage floor.


Well...I know that acid etching is not that right way now....and there is nothing insane about what I do and how I do it....don't be mad that I can go in and under bid everyone. ....I want it all.....I want every last house I can get my hands on and scoop up every last commercial job I can... I will hire more guys or sub it out if need be...but I look at every customer as a new review. .yard sign or email address...and I do good work reguardless of the situation. ..


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## momule (Feb 5, 2010)

richmondpainting said:


> I have a job coming up where the concrete was never painted. Sherwin reccomended that it be acid etched....which sounded easy but now I'm having second thoughts.....
> 
> Antone ever acid etched for pre paint prep?
> 
> ...


I assume your referring to Macropoxy 646. I would suggest talking to your local Industrial Floor Guy with Sherwin. Not trying to be rude but i can tell by your post you probably should have passed this one on. 

Acid etching will do nothing to prep the floor correctly. You must have spoke with someone who was unfamiliar with industrial floor coatings. 
Like others have suggested grinding the floor is the correct way to prep the floor. You should be using 100% solids epoxy and not macropoxy as it is only about 60-70%. These types of jobs are not for the inexperienced. You only get one shot to make this go down right. Redoing it cost alot of money.


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## momule (Feb 5, 2010)

richmondpainting said:


> Is the whole idea of this forum to chase new members off?
> 
> Cuse that's what it seems like everyone's intent is daily....ever wonder why its so dry and there is a lack of participation?


It gets old trying to teach dime a dozen house repainters how to do work they bid that they dont have any idea how to actually do.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

momule said:


> I assume your referring to Macropoxy 646. ....You should be using 100% solids epoxy and not macropoxy as it is only about 60-70%. QUOTE]
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

richmondpainting said:


> Is the whole idea of this forum to chase new members off?
> 
> Cuse that's what it seems like everyone's intent is daily....ever wonder why its so dry and there is a lack of participation?


No it's only for when we see dumb people making dumb posts or people that bite off way more than the can chew.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Here's the rub Dave. 

I actually think Rich will have a fighting chance. Hes tenatious. He is an outlier and onv e he dials in, he has the potential to be a wrecking crew. Hes not afraid to take chances and has survived quite a few storms already. The question is will his candle flicker out from getting into a big job and going upside down to badly. Alphas fly close to the sun. The question is will he rise above or get consumed by the flames. Time will tell.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

I have two dogs within me. One that wants Richmond to succeed and one that is waiting for him to crash and burn. I don't want him to burn but if given the chance to be in the audience, I'd grab a bag of popcorn....


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## painter213 (Nov 5, 2008)

Depending on what the purpose is Macropoxy 646 should work fine as long as it is done correctly. I really don't get that a floor coating has to be 100% solids either. Done plenty with solvent borne epoxies.  First coat should be reduced about 50% to allow the first coat to soak into the concrete after prep work is complete. Then the second coat can be applied at full strength and so on until your at the desired thickness. Should last a long time.


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

Paradigmzz said:


> Here's the rub Dave.
> 
> I actually think Rich will have a fighting chance. Hes tenatious. He is an outlier and onv e he dials in, he has the potential to be a wrecking crew. Hes not afraid to take chances and has survived quite a few storms already. The question is will his candle flicker out from getting into a big job and going upside down to badly. Alphas fly close to the sun. The question is will he rise above or get consumed by the flames. Time will tell.


im going to have to share this on face book..... motivation for sure......thanks


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