# New construction staining



## sdoran (Feb 15, 2014)

Hey all, I have only done new construction houses with PAINTING all trim and doors and now i need to give a bid on STAINING all trim and doors. Do y'all stain and clear coat everything before it is installed and just leave the nail holes or what? What are your steps for new construction with this scenario... Here is what I'm thinking...

1. Prime drywall
2. Shoot ceilings
3. 1st coat all walls
4. Stain all doors and trim before installed
5. Final coat walls
6. Trim and doors get installed 
7. Touch ups


Let me know what y'all do, please. 

Also, are you bidding this scenario a little higher, lower, or the same as trim and doors getting painted scenario? 

I hope this all makes sense! Thanks in advance for response!


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## gabe (Apr 20, 2012)

If the builders lets you do it that way, it should come out a little cheaper then painting. I would see if there is a painting shop you can sub out the trim and door package too. We have a couple of shops that can do it faster, cheaper and better then we can because they have a large shop, spray booths, automated spray , drying racks and forklifts. 
There are sometimes issues with staining wood, depending on wood type, and stain colors. We just did a job where they used poplar we had to water pop it, then stain, then Amber shellac then satin clear coats. Sometimes you just stain and lacquer it, other times you need to apply a wood conditioner.


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## Jasonbullet (Jun 3, 2012)

I always charge more for stained trim. 

When I do a new home with painted trim we spray all the trim. We, prep, spray prime, (it's usually bare poplar trim) sand, and finish spray. 

If your staining the wood on site you're probably going to have to do all the staining by hand as spraying it would probably make a giant mess. Hopefully you can get as much of it stained before it's installed but I am well aware that schedules and impatient carpenters don't always allow for this. Anyway you'll have to figure for the steps: stain, clear, sand, clear. and then filling nail holes. To me that's ton more labor then painting trim. 

As far as painting everything else I've had the best luck with finishing walls and ceilings before any trim goes up. 

The only thing I might do different is have them hang the doors. No casing. so you can stain and finish the slabs without having to lug them around the house and they don't get screwed up on install.


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## Krittterkare (Jul 12, 2013)

Every painter I know prefinishes trim before it is hung and in my opinion it is a long drawn out crappy process. I work by myself and honestly I would charge a lot more for pre-finishing the trim rather then having everything already installed.

If the walls are textured I would recommend having all of the trim and doors installed before you do anything. In this process you will want the whole place to yourself for a week or two, this means all the tile is either done before or afterwards, no outlets or light fixtures installed, no toilets.

So here is the process, mask everything that needs it, if the windows are cased in wood you want to mask for a caulk line and caulked in a darker caulk to prevent stain bleeding through.
The stain will be sprayed so mask thoroughly. Most wood should be hit with wood conditioner otherwise the stain may look blotchy and crappy, use a light spray tip for light materials and while you spray your helper or helpers follow with rags to wipe off the excess per instructions.
Stain follow the same process, I use towels cut in to easy to handle strips one in each hand.
For doors you want to build a spray booth in the basement, pull each door and put hinges in a bucket, mark each door and door jamb to reinstall the doors later and lightly sand rough and shard wood edges.

I like to use high build lacquer sanding sealer and finish and with this you apply the sanding sealer, sand all of it then fill nail holes with color putty after a light dusting. I like to make a few different colors out of 3 different color putty's to match different color wood grains. You can then apply a couple of top coats.

Next mask off all of the trim to do a caulk line and caulk all of the trim to the walls. Next you can prime all of the walls and ceilings, primer can me tinted to the paint color if you wish, you may be able to do one coat primer and one coat of finish for the walls using tinted primer.

Next mask the walls with 24-36 and 48" masking film to spray the ceilings depending on ceiling height and size like a small bathroom will only need 24" but a vaulted ceiling will need 48" as the last thing you want is to have to repaint the walls because of over spray.

In the end you should only have to do minor touch up and straighten up some lines. 

Back to the textured walls, it is ok to get some over spray on the walls when doing the trim as the primer and paint will cover it just fine provided more material gets on the trim rather then the walls but if flat walls I would not recommend this process because of flashing.

I am not sure of what tools you have or help and experience but this way you take and finish each process to completion. 

Masking all windows cabinets and tile in a day 
Pre-stain and stain in one day.
All sanding sealer and sanding in one day.
Puttying nail holes and two lacquer coats in a day.
Masking all trim and caulking in a day. 
Two wall coats in a day. 
Masking walls and finishing ceiling coat in a day. 

This may or may not work for ya but if you can get the contractor to work with you to keep other trades out you will learn a lot. Just have all solvents and appropiate spraytips, maskers and masking materials, sanding blocks and respirator cartridges.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

When we did it we would use the biggest room of the house to stain and polly the entire trim package in a day with two guys. 

We hung plastic around the room, used stain pads and stained the entire trim package and stood them along the walls. Then we would start over and polly it all. After it got hung we would lightly sand, putty, and brush the second coat of polly. I think it went a lot faster than painting plus you don't have to caulk.


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## Carl (Jun 18, 2011)

After doing a lot of houses both ways, we just ended up charging the same rate for both stained trim and painted trim. However if you don't have systems in place for doing your stained trim packages quickly, it's probably not going to be very profitable on the first few. 

The problem with finishing all the trim before install is that you need a lot of room to do that. Also, I have never been a big fan of it because I believe after you fill the nail holes with your color putty, you need to clearcoat over that putty so that it doesn't dry up and fall out in a few years. We would just stain as much trim as we could before the carpenters install, like crown, baseboard, chair rail, etc. After install we would finish the staining and then spray two coats on everything. It takes a semi-skilled spray guy to do that though. Spraying painted trim is easy. Spraying clears takes a little more skill. After that paint the walls and collect your money. 

And don't caulk stained trim ever. There is really no point to doing that and you are creating a problem for future painters down the road when that cracking caulk has to be fixed.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

With the routine that we finally developed for new work, costs were about the same for stained v. painted trim, at least with our conscientious GCs. The stained work takes more time, but that is offset by the savings painting the walls.

With painted trim, we prime and spray one topcoat on the walls before the trim goes up. Once *EVERYTHING * else is finished: floors, electrical, casegoods, tile, etc. we brush and roll a final coat on the walls.

With stained trim, we can prime and spray the two topcoats before trim goes up, but it is critical that the GC is keeping tabs on the other trades to avoid wall damage. We'll stain everything we can before installation, and put on as many coats of finish as possible. Trim that gets nailed up, base, case, crown, all gets a final coat _in situ_, after the nail holes are filled. If possible, we'll even finish door frames and windows before installation, although that's often not possible.


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## sdoran (Feb 15, 2014)

Thanks for all the replies. They are all very helpful. I really appreciate it!


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## Krittterkare (Jul 12, 2013)

Sdoran, also consider what clearcoat system you would use, water based or solvent based some are clear and some have a bit of yellowing, some cost 30.00 a gallon and some 50 or more and some have hours or over night of dry time before can be sanded and can attract dust for hours and others can be sanded and re-coated in as little as 15 minutes of application. 

So if you pre-finish the trim you want to use a system that dries quickly so after spraying say 10 pieces at a time by the time you finish the last piece the one you started with is about dry enough to handle and like others said have the room to spray and store or stack the trim and keep it out of the way of other trades and make it easy for the carpenters to get to it.


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## Krittterkare (Jul 12, 2013)

Also mentioned about caulking trim here are my thoughts.

I would have to disagree with never tape and caulk woodwork and for much of what I do it is required, no gaps allowed anywhere.
It gives the whole job a much more finished look and straightens out the wood to wall lines and seals out what is inside of the wall including drafts, insects and dust. 

I have never had to fix caulking on interior repaints just tape and re-caulk and to me the finish is irrelevant, it is that you just can not get away without caulking painted trim but even when we did stain packs on on tract homes we had to caulk all the woodwork. 

Anyone ever paint old dark stained woodwork? like Oxford Brown dark? once you spray that first coat of primer and you see that no nail holes were ever filled and the trim was never caulked and it looks like crap. With darker stain compared to light it is less obvious but is still there, an un-caulked baseboard or door jamb just looks un-caulked to me.


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## finaltouch0 (Jul 14, 2011)

I have struggled with that issue as well. I have seen stained trim packs caulked and they look great. We arent required to do that, so we dont.

We prefinish all stained packs. How do you get the caulk to blend? Use clear and cut back to the wall?


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## Carl (Jun 18, 2011)

The caulk doesn't blend. It ends up looking like the wall surface is leaching onto the wood. It's not a professional look IMO. It looks better with a gap, that you can hardly see because the wood is stained and the shadows hide it.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Carl said:


> The caulk doesn't blend. It ends up looking like the wall surface is leaching onto the wood. It's not a professional look IMO. It looks better with a gap, that you can hardly see because the wood is stained and the shadows hide it.


I haven't ever done any stain grade trim since I started painting. I guess I've done a few handrails, but that's it.

I'd agree with not caulking the trim though. Wouldn't look right. I've always wondered what you do if you can't get a tight enough joint though due to slightly wonky walls or some other imperfection?


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Wildbill7145 said:


> I haven't ever done any stain grade trim since I started painting. I guess I've done a few handrails, but that's it.
> 
> I'd agree with not caulking the trim though. Wouldn't look right. I've always wondered what you do if you can't get a tight enough joint though due to slightly wonky walls or some other imperfection?


The outfits that I know that do first-rate trim carpentry charge a premium to install stained trim, up to 2-3 times the cost of paint-grade work. Since caulking isn't really an option, it's more skilled and time-consuming work.


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## Gracobucks (May 29, 2011)

IMO spray stained wood work is cheaper for me to do. I can finish stained wood work in a day or two, while painted trim seems 2-3 days. The other part is that the other trades seem to respect stained wood work more and I never seem to have anything that is damaged, were painted trim I also have a day of touch ups from trade damage at the end of the job. If we are talking about wiping stain and varnish then it takes much longer then painted trim.

Doors and frames are always easier to stain when installed ( never enough room to finish all the pieces ununassembled) and base boards are easier to stain when the are not installed

I have never caulked stained wood work and never had a complaint it wasn't done.


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

This is a large subject matter. A lot of guys think that it's a similar process to painting trim...i mean trim is trim right? Way wrong. 

If you can do it as you planned, pre-finish stuff first then you'll be way ahead of the game. I prefer to have all the pieces pre-finished and then do touch-ups afterwards. Why? Because I can fly through the work. Just get a couple of sawhorses (building your own is the best bet) and a couple of tables/dry racks and your set. 

Good example, we just finished 1,100 linear feet of base/case last week in basically a day and a half. The wind started to pick up (windy season here) and so we were forced to stop. Came back the next day, sanded and sprayed finish. Done. 

Base gets complicated pre-installed when you have things such as carpet in the way. Your dealing with stain which is basically the same viscosity as water (dissimilar to paint) and has a tendency to creep under/over things (masking etc). 

As far as caulking/puddy. Yes and yes. Puddy your nail holes, if your good you can mix it pretty close to the right color. And to give a good appearance it's always best to caulk, just good professional practice. 

A majority of the stuff that goes into a house gives the illusion that it's seamless. For example the sheetrock/joints, why tape and texture them? To make them appear seamless. And if you've ever installed anything (cabinets, doors, trim) you'll know that a majority of the walls are not 100% plum and square. Even if the wood is, the sheetrock might be bowed, pushing it out of plum/square. I wouldn't want to look at baseboard with a big gap between the wall and the base, wouldn't look professional in my eyes. Just my 2 cents on it.

Edit: 
Make sure in your contract that you state large damages to the trim you'll have to charge for, or something to that degree. Because dealing with stained trim that has been scuffed because it's been kicked/shoved into place before nailing, or gouges or scrapes, etc. are going to be much harder to fix than a painted surface. Hence all the trades' mentality, if it's painted, damage repair is easy. Just throw some more paint on it, no big deal.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Staining in place is the highest quality way to do it IMO. Joints can be sanded flush. Stain application can be manipulated, as needed, for uniformity. Nail holes can be filled prior to top clear coat.


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## Krittterkare (Jul 12, 2013)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> Staining in place is the highest quality way to do it IMO. Joints can be sanded flush. Stain application can be manipulated, as needed, for uniformity. Nail holes can be filled prior to top clear coat.


Agreed, when everything is installed you can pre-sand and look for defects, far less material is wasted as overspray or doing extra trim that is not used and never end up short of wood that you have to do later. Cracks are at least partially filled and when you are done with the woodwork you are done.

It just looks so much better as prefinished wood looks pieced together, nothing wrong with prefinishing wood but when a door jamb is done in place it looks like a solid piece and having a couple of top coats over filled nail holes make them almost disappear if some effort is made to match grain colors.


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## Anchors Aweigh Paint (Apr 16, 2015)

95% of my work in life has been commercial (until this last year, anyways). We ALWAYS prepped and stained the wood, then sealed and sanded it before it got cut/installed. Then, puttied and brushed a finish on them.

Doors got the finish before installation. 

All of this is even faster and easier when you spray them.

Personally, I charge more for staining. I have to be more careful since a screw up will cost more time over a screw up in painting.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Great information! 

Staining has always stressed me out. I don't do it anymore, but after reading this thread, I would rather stain in place than stain prior to install for the following reasons, as mentioned by Kritterkare, Excelpainting, and others:

-Not having to find space for the trim package
-Not having to handle the trim package
-Not having to touch up the installed pre finished trim
-Able to control the environment
-Able to control stain and finish appearance

I would imagine that staining in place would be more tedious and require more time and effort, along with a good application system, but if think it has the potential for a better outcome. 

Really good information here guys.


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

Yes staining in place is A LOT more tedious. I wouldn't want to be on my hands and knees for several days trying to stain baseboard and worrying about stain creeping onto anything. 
If it was new construction, with no floors, not as big a deal but I still wouldn't want to be with knee pads for several days in a row.

As far as finish is concerned, it depends on how you do it. Yes, you can fill nail holes and stain over them, but chances that they will match dead-on without needing any touch-up is virtually non-existent. So you'll have to go back and touch-up where the grain is lighter/darker and a nail hole is there. 

In my opinion, if your a decent sprayer and can remember how many passes/technique you used, you could get all the boards to be virtually the same color/tone prior to install. With less masking off of the walls (if their finished already) or jambs (if they have been stained already). 

Since I do it all the time, staining trim prior to install is easier.

But let us know how it goes for you and take some pictures, if you can, I'd like to see how everything turned out.


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