# Are you kidding me?



## Picky_Painter (May 12, 2015)

So we started this job about a week or so ago.. repair work around some windows in a living room. hardwood floors, natural wood base, with this 1/4 round metal stuff around the windows.

I explained we do not remove baseboards. If they want that removed call a carpenter - Im not being responsible for scratching that floor.

My Job: Paint the room, repair the water damage, also in a closet behind a chimney, And fix a repair in the Foyer ceiling...

Not a big deal.. So yesterday we finally get the paint on the walls, and I know today there would be a few minor touch ups as we did resurface most of this wall...

I come in today to sand the foyer patch, prime and paint... paint the closet and do my little touch ups on this wall..

The wife took a black crayon to the wall, and marked every single imperfection in the ENTIRE wall. It looks so bad it looked like a badger tried to claw his way up the wall! And the base is off... Like WTF is going on here? 

She says she found all these imperfections and want them fixed. She also wants the gap fixed around a window we werent even near!

Ok whatever... I bring in my 1000 watt light, again... and do the patches...

I walk in after lunch, shes again literally 3" from this wall with my 1000 watt light, and every lamp she owns, marking more things 'wrong'

Plus she keeps complaining about how crappy the 'molding around the other window looks' compared to what *I* fixed. I told her we werent contracted to fix it. By this point, I am ready to pack up and leave... Like my patience with her is GONE. I bite my tongue, and say no im not fixing that.

She says 'Well im not happy then' I replied, to fix that will take a week. and walked away...

The wall is damn near perfect... anyways i went about my things, painted everything i fixed cleaned up and left...

She left me another nasty Voice mail stating that she is completely unhappy with my work, that my repair work sucks, theres all these imperfections on and on... how shes going to have to hire someone else to fix it ect ect..


I took photos before I left.

Ill wait til the old man calls me, hes a bit more planted in reality... However if I dont get paid I will take out a mechanics lien... Because this is BS


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Once again, we all should be versed in "industry standards" as defined in the PDCA Standards

People as Obsessive Compulsive DISRUPTIVE as this need a lesson in reality. 

It's unfortunate that these type of people try to make everyone else's life as miserable as their own. It's a shame she can't control her demons.

Just be glad you are not a member of her family. Her kids are the type that become mass murderers or terrorists.


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## LA Painter (Jul 28, 2009)




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## Anchors Aweigh Paint (Apr 16, 2015)

Worst. People. EVER.


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

I very rarely get those i can usually pick them out but when i do i go out of my way to walk them thru the rest of the house to point out how screwed up there whole house is. This usually dulls it down a bit. I think its a club.


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

Just look at them like this for atleast a minute or two before replying.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Man, that's really unfortunate. It's threads like these that remind me why I'm glad I don't work for homeowners any more.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

CApainter said:


> Man, that's really unfortunate. It's threads like these that remind me why I'm glad I don't work for homeowners any more.


There's a small percentage in any type of job where the most obnoxious disrespectful people will go out of their way to ruin your day/week.

If these type of people were more abundant, no one would enter any of the trades. 

And we all have the gems that make us forget about the a-holes - for awhile.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Next time she brings out the lights to inspect your work under unrealistic conditions, tell her this joke:

Old lady is at the butchers in front of the chickens. She grabs one, pulls apart the legs, sticks her nose in between, sniffs, and loudly says, "This boid ain't fresh!" 

She throws that bird back, grabs another one, does the same sniff thing, and once again says, "This boid ain't fresh!" She then proceeds to do it yet again with a third, fourth and even fifth bird. 

Exasperated, the butcher finally comes out from behind his counter and yells, "Lady I bet *you* couldn't pass that kind of test!!!"


Customers: you can't live without em', and it's illegal to kill em'.


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## Boco (May 18, 2013)

One time we had an inspecter go and make large circles around tiny imperfections with a pencil. We fixed his ass and fixed the small imperfections but made sure leave all the circles marked in pencil.


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

Just so we are clear, you stated that you would do minor touch-ups on the wall? Why would there be a need to do any touch-ups? Is your customer referring to the texture or missed paint. With two coats you would not have any touch-ups.


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## jprefect (Mar 4, 2015)

daArch said:


> Once again, we all should be versed in "industry standards" as defined in the PDCA Standards
> 
> People as Obsessive Compulsive DISRUPTIVE as this need a lesson in reality.
> 
> ...


OH MAN! This is an excellent resource. How did I not know about this?
http://www.pdca.org/about-pdca/industry-standards


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

jprefect said:


> OH MAN! This is an excellent resource. How did I not know about this?
> http://www.pdca.org/about-pdca/industry-standards


It's something we on PT try to bring up periodically. Read the whole thing, it has great wording that protects all parties.

If and when you work for a GC, the standard about job sequencing is very enlightening. It was always a much more pleasant job when working with GC's who were familiar with the PDCA standards.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

All you can do is add them to your "bad customer" list who you won't work for again and move on. My list isn't huge, but it is growing.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Picky_Painter said:


> So we started this job about a week or so ago.. repair work around some windows in a living room. hardwood floors, natural wood base, with this 1/4 round metal stuff around the windows.
> 
> I explained we do not remove baseboards. If they want that removed call a carpenter - Im not being responsible for scratching that floor.
> 
> ...


This sounds awfully familiar. Hold on, is the Yvonne R. from Area Code 509??? She's the reason that we started the Fecal Roster to begin with. She pulled that nonsense with a long list of contractors. Sorry, I thought the word had gotten around.


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## dyneser (Jul 26, 2011)

I never leave my spot light around .


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

dyneser said:


> I never leave my spot light around .


For more reasons than just the ones relevant to this thread. We know how much heat halogens produce, but do the customers? If someone gets burned, melts carpet when they bump the thing over and don't grab it right away then blames you...

I guess you could say the same thing about a lot of the junk we carry around. Sharp knives, etc. etc.


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## JCW (Jun 6, 2015)

As a paint contractor that works almost exclusively for one designer I know the exact type of client this is. I have them as well. So far there is only one person that I walked away from since I started in the late 70's. It was last year and there was a revolving door of contractors (all trades) that were either thrown off the job or walked off in disgust. This lady was a good friend of my long time designer client as well as friends w/ other clients of mine and they all told her "why haven't you called Joe you know he can take care of you" To which she finally did after going through two or three other painters. While I have the patience of Job and will lose money on a job if it means satisfying the customer, I couldn't satisfy her. Husband was almost as bad. In the end it was so obvious she had OCD, Bi-polar, and a host of other issues that she took out on the contractors on the job. One trick that they did was to pull the permits themselves and act as their own GC. This took away all the leverage contractors would have to some of the legal avenues. The only route left would be civil court. Never again will I work for a homeowner who is the contractor and pulls the permits themselves, unless I know them already. 
One other option is if you sense this is the type of client you have in front of you inflate your hourly rate and do the work on a T/M basis. That way she can be as picky as anybody and you can keep rolling up the hours at a 50% + premium over what you normally would make. You'd be surprised how reasonable some OCD'ers get when it's their wallet taking the hit. I've done this in years past and it has worked well for me. If they won't agree to it then you don't lose money. If they do agree to it then it may be a miserable time but at least there is money coming your way.
And BTW, the PDCA Industry Standards while a good tool must be included in the contract language in order to ensure it would be upheld in court should there be a dispute. If all your contract says is "normal surface prep" or "no minutia" or something else that is somewhat nebulous the language interpretation door is open that could get slammed on you. That is why most home, auto, and other major purchase contracts include language that no matter what the salesperson says only terms expressed in the contract shall be upheld. Many people don't get that till they don't get what the salesman promised them.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

JCW said:


> As a paint contractor that works almost exclusively for one designer I know the exact type of client this is. I have them as well. So far there is only one person that I walked away from since I started in the late 70's. It was last year and there was a revolving door of contractors (all trades) that were either thrown off the job or walked off in disgust. This lady was a good friend of my long time designer client as well as friends w/ other clients of mine and they all told her "why haven't you called Joe you know he can take care of you" To which she finally did after going through two or three other painters. While I have the patience of Job and will lose money on a job if it means satisfying the customer, I couldn't satisfy her. Husband was almost as bad. In the end it was so obvious she had OCD, Bi-polar, and a host of other issues that she took out on the contractors on the job. One trick that they did was to pull the permits themselves and act as their own GC. This took away all the leverage contractors would have to some of the legal avenues. The only route left would be civil court. Never again will I work for a homeowner who is the contractor and pulls the permits themselves, unless I know them already.
> One other option is if you sense this is the type of client you have in front of you inflate your hourly rate and do the work on a T/M basis. That way she can be as picky as anybody and you can keep rolling up the hours at a 50% + premium over what you normally would make. You'd be surprised how reasonable some OCD'ers get when it's their wallet taking the hit. I've done this in years past and it has worked well for me. If they won't agree to it then you don't lose money. If they do agree to it then it may be a miserable time but at least there is money coming your way.
> And BTW, the PDCA Industry Standards while a good tool must be included in the contract language in order to ensure it would be upheld in court should there be a dispute. If all your contract says is "normal surface prep" or "no minutia" or something else that is somewhat nebulous the language interpretation door is open that could get slammed on you. That is why most home, auto, and other major purchase contracts include language that no matter what the salesperson says only terms expressed in the contract shall be upheld. Many people don't get that till they don't get what the salesman promised them.


The PDCA Stanards don't have to be included _per se_. They can be included "by reference", e.g. "An acceptable painted surface shall be one that meets the standards of PDCA Standard #...."


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## matt19422 (Oct 2, 2009)

Hmm, 

Revert back to your original contract that she signed under the scope of work.....


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Also, the PDCA standards are recognized as THE industry standards, so I bet if nothing is defined exactly, the courts would likely judge by the default industry standards - i.e. the PDCA Standards.


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## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

Only ones who win in courts our the mouthpieces and even in small claims you still get screwed big time . No matter what you have in your contract no one really wins  People suck but the good ones still out weigh the bad thankfully. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## dan-o (Sep 28, 2008)

If you're at the point you need to reference some 3rd party standards written by a paid member organization, that you may or may not belong to, you've already lost.
It's no different than a HO seeking the 'authority' of the BBB to resolve a conflict.

The fact is you're not getting a check until you set things straight directly with the HO and resolve the impasse one way or the other.
If they're unreasonable, let them know.
If the quality isn't there, fix it.


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## Picky_Painter (May 12, 2015)

Sorry for the delay its has been really rough around here... found out 2 friends and 1 family member have cancer, one of my best friends died last Wednesday, my cousin died Sunday of cancer, and my best friends house burned down sunday...

luckily the HO im working for right now is my typical customer, laid back, and easy going.


When I first looked at this job, Hubby kept wifey in the kitchen, I didnt even meet her...

I spoke with hubby, hes supposedly sending me the payment... I was calm cool and discussed the matter in a professional way. right before I got off the phone he said 'Be glad you dont have to live with her'


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

Hey, I am truly sorry for your losses.

It makes me happy to think this lousy customer is off your plate now that you have so many other, more important things to deal with.


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## Picky_Painter (May 12, 2015)

While my business is young, I started it in 2010, this is BY FAR the WORST customer I have ever had. EVER

I told hubby, I work for extremely wealthy picky people, I go above and beyond for my customers, I have lost alot of money to keep customers happy... But your wife... She took a 1000 watt halogen light 3" from the wall and boiled the paint off the wall... He says 'I understand, your check is in the mail'

Shes allergic to dust?! I went to extremes for dust containment... I used a whole roll of plastic on this job alone... , setup took me and 1 guy 5 HOURS

Clean up, which was VERY contained took 2 hours... the demo? 3 hours tops... 

I am not a plasterer, but appreciate the 'shortcut' plaster offers... For instance, you can pack a hole in the wall 2" thick with plaster base coat...

you can pack a hole 1" thick with paris and lime... it might crack but u can top coat it with compound...

I did this on this job... some of the patches on this job were 2-3" THICK topped with compound... looks great...unless you go over it with a magnifying glass


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## Brian C (Oct 8, 2011)

next time you quote a job, spend some more time asking questions.

A picky customer will show their true colours when you quiz them about their expectations.


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## Mike2coat (Nov 12, 2013)

Brian C said:


> next time you quote a job, spend some more time asking questions. A picky customer will show their true colours when you quiz them about their expectations.


Very true


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## salmangeri (Sep 13, 2008)

Danger danger Will Robinson.....i wish I had some type of device that would show me the HO is going to be impossible to please...?


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

salmangeri said:


> Danger danger Will Robinson.....i wish I had some type of device that would show me the HO is going to be impossible to please...?


I've always just relied on intuition, however there are many variables at play here that affect the reliability of this device.

If my intuition isn't 'on it's game' on the day in question it may fail to pick up on the subtle clues.

The personality types that become painful are often wrought with change. They may be great to deal with on day 1, but day 2 becomes a nightmare.

They may not be arguing with their spouse on day 1, but on day 2 they are and now you're going to wear the residual of this.

etc. etc. etc.


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## Picky_Painter (May 12, 2015)

Me and hubby went over the bid process. Wifey was tucked away, hidden in the kitchen.


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