# Estimates: On The Spot vs. Email



## LA Painter (Jul 28, 2009)

In my residential repaint business I have provided estimates on the spot for most of my career. In a effort to provide nicer looking and more "thought out" estimates, I switched to email a few years ago. I have mixed feeling about both methods and am interested in other opinions. Feel free to add to the pros and cons below.

*On the spot*
_Pro:_ 
Able to answer questions and address objections face to face. 
Opportunity to close on the spot.

_Con:_ 
Making mistakes on pricing by trying to get it done on the spot.
Handwritten form - not as professional looking. 
Appointments can take much longer.


*Email*
_Pro:_ 
Appointments go faster.
Being able to evaluate pricing in my office without any pressure.
Nicer looking presentation. More info. Typed, etc.

_Con: _
Wondering if they even got it.
Wondering what they’re thinking.
Can’t address questions & objections in person.
Overall less personal. 

Discuss.


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

I've done both. When I had employees, I usually did it on the spot, because I had the time to do it while others were generating cash flow.
Now that I'm on my own, I usually email it so I can get back on the wall and make some money.

But this doesn't have to be:



LA Painter said:


> *On the spot*
> _Con:_
> Handwritten form - not as professional looking.


I used a mobile office system, laptop and small printer right in the truck. And if you use any type of estimating software, or have a spreadsheet with your costs, it can happen pretty quickly while the client is perusing your portfolio. This is my old mobile office:


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

residential 99% of time on spot for me, been discussed here many times, most have folders info packets. 

to truly test it you would have to simply compare your closing numbers against each system to see wich you get better results with.


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## Wood511 (Dec 13, 2010)

I've always emailed. 

That medium helps me lay out WHY something might be more expensive and take longer. I may give them a paragraph or two on all the steps required to get a certain room done right then give them the price at the end. That way they can read it over, research it if they like and take the time to understand what service I'm providing. It helps them compare my service relative to others so they can make good price comparisons - if they care to do so.

There's so much going on at the walk through estimate that I think doing that verbally isn't as effective - because you don't know what they are thinking/hearing and how much they are going to remember.

I always email it quickly though. Same day if I can and never more than 24 hours.


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

I agree with your pros and cons for both. I had to answer the same questions. I decided to always e-mail the quote. 

Here are some solutions for Cons of e-mailing.

1. Follow up e-mail. Specifically asking if they have any questions or CONCERNS. This resolves 1 and 2 of your cons

2. Ask them what concerns they have prior to leaving the initial meeting. I realize they may have concerns about details of the quote or pricing later. A proven sells technique for me is to ask the following question. What problems or dislikes do you have about the current paint job? What would you like to see done differently? This is a way of getting a little more personal. You care about what they want. This resolves the other cons.


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## jason123 (Jul 2, 2009)

email for me


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

Great thread 

Me personally always email them or drop it off the next day. My goal is to try to impress them as best as possible so that they will not make a decision when they get other on the spot estimates. They will want to see what I have to say.

I'm not a sales guy, its just not in my personality. Even If I were to give them a price on the spot, I would bet they would still want to think it over.

I think when customers are about to spend thousands of dollars they need a little time to themselves to go over it.

Pat


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## Gproinc (Aug 22, 2011)

I have done both and i find that the e-mail gives you more time to consider incidentals or oversight. When i do on the fly estimates i usually come out regretting my price.


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## alertchief (Nov 12, 2009)

100% email for me. I like the time afforded by sitting down after the walk around and evaluating my time and material. I usually take some pictures and am able to place any concerns into the proposal. 

I am very low key on the sales approach . I spend most all of my time and efforts on the walk through in establishing a common ground and relationship as well as my work practices. 

Usually have the estimate emailed to them within 24 to 48 hours. I ask them if they have any concerns or questions after reviewing the proposal to get in touch with me. My next and only follow up is a week or so later I email and see if they would like to be put into the production schedule.

Most people are very positive to my low key approach. I know all about the books and closing techniques of which I have used , but I now believe the best working relationships come from my current approach which requires them to evaluate my price, work efforts and simply the comfort and confidence in me in deciding if I am the best fit! If not I move on and no hard feelings.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Knee mail for me.:thumbsup:


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## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

I'll do email if they ask for it but always try to have a face to face meeting to discuss the estimate and answer any questions they might have.


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## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

Interesting topic, i have wondered this before myself. i had someone suggest to me that i send estimates on bigger projects the next day. to show the client that i take my time. i personally do them on spot, it takes a little more time durring the estimate but it doesnt leave them anticipating a number and i get to present it in person and answer any questions. i can also read them, see how they are feeling about it by their body language and reactions..this is huge. unless they request i dont email


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

My jobs never seem to be so difficult that I cant bid on the spot, most of the time.
I usually have my number figured out before I leave, so I will do one of three things or all three depending on the customer.
I verbally tell them the price, write it on the back of a business card, and email a bid form with scope of work.


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## Ramsden Painting (Jul 17, 2011)

I never quote on the spot and never verbal. I also email within 48 hrs, that's what I promise them and try to send it the next day.

One thing I was once heard at a sales seminar is promise something and then over deliver. I often mention in my email, As promised enclosed is the estimate ect. Ect.

Sent from my iPad using PaintTalk


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

I typically do it on the spot. However, for larger jobs I will take the time to go back over the numbers to be sure of my position. If possible, I'll try and connect to drop of the proposal. I prefer the eye to eye contact and the opportunity to close on the spot. I will email if it's a regular customer or the situation requires it (once did a bid for a client living in Ireland).

My dream piece of equipment would be a laptop & printer built into one.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

ProWallGuy said:


>


Dude, you need a painter.


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## crazyson2001 (Jan 3, 2010)

Bender said:


> Dude, you need a painter.


LOL! Whats that old saying?..... "A carpenters house is never finished"

Well, the same applies to painters too. At least I know I'm not the only one.


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

Bender said:


> Dude, you need a painter.


Not in my office I don't.


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## crazyson2001 (Jan 3, 2010)

I've wondered about this myself. Lately I have been going to the email route. As stated in others replies, it allows me to add a lot more verbaige to the proposal and elaborate on the scope of work more than a handwritten proposal allows. Plus my handwriting sucks. My computerized proposals look much more professional then my old handwritten stuff.

Most people seem to be OK with it too, as long as you get it to them quickly. At first I was worried about it being too impersonal, but as long as the detail is there, I think it shows that you put the effort into their job.


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## sendit6 (Sep 6, 2008)

Does anyone close in the spot when giving the estimate on the spot? I highly doubt it. I say that because most people are getting at least 3 estimates.

I wouldn't even consider submiting an estimate on the spot. Too many variables to consider, have to think it out. Maybe it's just me.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

sendit6 said:


> Does anyone close in the spot when giving the estimate on the spot? I highly doubt it. I say that because most people are getting at least 3 estimates.
> 
> I wouldn't even consider submiting an estimate on the spot. Too many variables to consider, have to think it out. Maybe it's just me.


It depends. Probably 70% of my jobs come through referrals. As a result many already feel inclined to use my services - they just want to know the price. If it's within the range they were expecting I'm usually able to close before leaving. I've been doing this long enough that I feel pretty comfortable with my bids (unless they are really complicated jobs). I also only do interiors so the variables are often less and bids are easier to do - at least for me. Sometimes they want to talk it over (or think about it) and get back to me. Usually that means the price is more than they expected. Of those I usually get about 80% positive call backs.

On a non-referral I'm still usually able to give the bid before I leave. On those I'm able to close about 75% of the time either then or on a callback. 

I'm always surprised how many people don't get multiple bids or how many other contractors never bother to respond in a timely manner. I've lost track of the number of jobs I've gotten just because I was the one who did the bid promptly and was ready to put them into my schedule - often before they've even gotten any call from the other painting outfits they've contacted. Seems to be human nature that once people have made up their mind to move ahead with the work they want the bid ASAP and to be put on the calendar. Don't ever put people off if you can possibly avoid it. Do the bid, sell your service, and close the deal. No need to be pushy like most car salesmen but think about it: if you've ever gone to purchase a car from a dealership did the salesperson ever tell you they'll get back to you in a few days?


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## MonPeintre.ca (Feb 17, 2011)

Do you know if printer ink can freeze during winter in the truck?


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## Jeff Watkins (Mar 8, 2008)

If it is a small job, a few hundred dollars, I give them a price during the bid process. I generally always follow it up with an email showing the price I quoted them and the exact steps and scope of the job so there is no misunderstanding.
If it is a big job I always send them an email with my bid usually that day. This allows me to do several things. One, I might need to call my supplier with a question on the right product to use for a particular job and the current price of the materials. Two, it allows me to really analyze the price I am quoting them for the job and check my figures. Three, I am able to give them a detailed description of the work I am going to perform.
I always ask them to send me a reply to let me know if they got my email so I won't be left wondering. They don't have to commit just let me know they have recieved it.


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## CajunDavid (Jul 20, 2011)

My business is tiny compared to most of yall's. I give estimates on the spot the old fashioned way, I write them on carbonless pre printed forms. I get about 50% of the jobs I bid on, on the spot.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Having come from a sales background I can tell you that you should be trying to close all deals on the spot. Specially if you have a good rapport going at the time. Using trial closes throughout the process will give you an idea on how close to yes they are.

I hear that "well they are getting multiple estimates" but can't help think that makes getting them to say yes to you now is even more important. Most people don't have the balls to even ask for the sale.

If you think that trying trial closes and asking for the sale is pushy, you need to learn about sales. Pushy is not what its about.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

CajunDavid said:


> My business is tiny compared to most of yall's. I give estimates on the spot the old fashioned way, I write them on carbonless pre printed forms. I get about 50% of the jobs I bid on, on the spot.


 
Cajun Dave,

Thats what I am working towards. Have my estimating program (fancy excel sheet) just about done. If it works on my tablet, the estimate will be done on the spot, I'll fill out the sheet and hand it to them.


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## JoseyWales (Jan 8, 2011)

bikerboy said:


> Cajun Dave,
> 
> Thats what I am working towards. Have my estimating program (fancy excel sheet) just about done. If it works on my tablet, the estimate will be done on the spot, I'll fill out the sheet and hand it to them.


I've basically ignored any of the threads on estimating software because I can't believe it's possible with all the variables in painting...Can you show us yours and work us through an estimate?....I've seen the software that you pay for and it looks like complete bullchit to me...


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

JoseyWales said:


> I've basically ignored any of the threads on estimating software because I can't believe it's possible with all the variables in painting...Can you show us yours and work us through an estimate?....I've seen the software that you pay for and it looks like complete bullchit to me...


what I am building is simple. from left to right are columns that are, setup, prep, time to paint, clean up and the last would be a total. you enter your time into each cell with the total of all cells being under (what else) the total column. the cell next to that multiplies it by my target per hour price. that's all i need for the labor end.

under that will be another row with individual cells for differing product,or another sheet that adds up the products plus the labor from the previous sheet .
if you know how much time you need for each task and how much you need to charge per hour to make your numbers, boom. it's done. add your product pricing and you have a total for the job.

i break down each room individually. i know it's a hassle but its something we did in sales called "reducing it to the rediculous". the idea is to make the price more palatable by breaking it down into smaller more manageable parts. 

pardon my grammar, punctuation, and spelling. i am sick and typing this on my blackberry playbook. (and lazy)


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

That sounds pretty good BB.

I've been thinking about the same kind of thing off and on for years..but if you make one (and share) I could quit thinking about it.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Steve Richards said:


> That sounds pretty good BB.
> 
> I've been thinking about the same kind of thing off and on for years..but if you make one (and share) I could quit thinking about it.


i'll share it. you' d have to put your own per hour price in it. if you are excel savvy (i am not) its easy. 

am doing it so all i have to carry is this tablet a pen or pencil and two part invoices. all of that will fit inside my current clipboard.


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## LA Painter (Jul 28, 2009)

sendit6 said:


> Does anyone close in the spot when giving the estimate on the spot?


A good referral or repeat work - all the time. :thumbsup:


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## LA Painter (Jul 28, 2009)

Great feedback everyone! 

I asked a few customers about this topic today. They said they’d prefer the immediate gratification of a bid right on the spot. Handwritten verses typed didn’t matter, and following up via email with a detailed proposal would be good. That's just a small sampling tho...

I’m remembering a bid I did on the spot a few years ago. I told the couple to think about it and give me a call. While I was starting up my van, the customer knocked on my window and said they’ve already thought about it and want to hire me. They were also going to cancel an appointment they had later that day with another contractor. This was a pretty large job, and who knows what would have happen if I walked away without giving them the price on the spot. Something to think about anyway...

:thumbsup:


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## LA Painter (Jul 28, 2009)

One think I am going to start doing when giving on the spot bids for interior work: Go out to my van and write it up so I can think WITHOUT the customer staring at me. I can’t think under pressure! This applies to exteriors too when the customer is following me around two feet away. Doh!!!

:whistling2:


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## MonPeintre.ca (Feb 17, 2011)

LA Painter said:


> One think I am going to start doing when giving on the spot bids for interior work: Go out to my van and write it up so I can think WITHOUT the customer staring at me. I can&#146;t think under pressure! This applies to exteriors too when the customer is following me around two feet away. Doh!!!
> 
> :whistling2:


Yep, sometimes they even try to peak at my calculator to find out what s my hourly rate


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

With the greatest of respect to both methods, I am wondering if this topic is being over thought.


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

bikerboy said:


> i'll share it. you' d have to put your own per hour price in it.


Damn

:jester:


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

LA Painter said:


> I’m remembering a bid I did on the spot a few years ago. I told the couple to think about it and give me a call. While I was starting up my van, the customer knocked on my window and said they’ve already thought about it and want to hire me. They were also going to cancel an appointment they had later that day with another contractor.
> 
> :thumbsup:


Over the years I have had several customers call and cancel the appointment, due to various reasons. I would bet at least half the time I did not get a chance to bid due to them already getting one and had already decided. 

Pat


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

vermontpainter said:


> With the greatest of respect to both methods, I am wondering if this topic is being over thought.


Over thought? On PT? Never!:no: 
At least it's about something relevant. Not four pages of replies to something like "I'm Outa Here...".


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## SoCal Paint (Nov 7, 2011)

Why not just ask the customer what they prefer, based on their needs and time frame?


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

SoCal Paint said:


> Why not just ask the customer what they prefer, based on their needs and time frame?


 
Why not try to close now and later? You are giving them both. 

If you are asking the right questions you should be able to determine weather they are ready.

Everybody is going to have a favorite method, some of it based on personality (fear, shyness, lack of sales knowledge or just plain prefference) but I think you sell your business short if you perform the estimates and fail to learn about and use every tool at your disposal.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Steve Richards said:


> Damn
> 
> :jester:


 
Allright Buttercup, for you I'd enter the info so I could discover the "Holy Grail" of Paint Talk. 

How much do I charge?


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## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

LA Painter said:


> One think I am going to start doing when giving on the spot bids for interior work: Go out to my van and write it up so I can think WITHOUT the customer staring at me. I can’t think under pressure! This applies to exteriors too when the customer is following me around two feet away. Doh!!!
> 
> :whistling2:


I always do that for on the spot quotes, just explain that I need a few minutes to work up a price. It's served me well over the years:thumbsup:


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## sendit6 (Sep 6, 2008)

researchhound said:


> It depends. Probably 70% of my jobs come through referrals. As a result many already feel inclined to use my services - they just want to know the price. If it's within the range they were expecting I'm usually able to close before leaving. I've been doing this long enough that I feel pretty comfortable with my bids (unless they are really complicated jobs). I also only do interiors so the variables are often less and bids are easier to do - at least for me. Sometimes they want to talk it over (or think about it) and get back to me. Usually that means the price is more than they expected. Of those I usually get about 80% positive call backs.
> 
> On a non-referral I'm still usually able to give the bid before I leave. On those I'm able to close about 75% of the time either then or on a callback.
> 
> I'm always surprised how many people don't get multiple bids or how many other contractors never bother to respond in a timely manner. I've lost track of the number of jobs I've gotten just because I was the one who did the bid promptly and was ready to put them into my schedule - often before they've even gotten any call from the other painting outfits they've contacted. Seems to be human nature that once people have made up their mind to move ahead with the work they want the bid ASAP and to be put on the calendar. Don't ever put people off if you can possibly avoid it. Do the bid, sell your service, and close the deal. No need to be pushy like most car salesmen but think about it: if you've ever gone to purchase a car from a dealership did the salesperson ever tell you they'll get back to you in a few days?


 
I hear ya. I'm in Pittsburgh and maybe folks decision making protocol is a bit different here, but the way it seems to work here is people need to disseminate and digest the proposal. That seems to typically take anywhere from 1 day to two weeks. My estimates very clearly state that they're not valid beyond 14 days. Obviously this is so I don't get strung out for weeks.

Incidentally, I just had new carpet/hardwood installed in my home. I had 3 companies estimate, and thought about it over a few days and made a decison. 

I just have a hard time believing that some guys have an on the spot closing rate as high as they claim on here. 

I just can't operate that way, but if it's working for someone, keep on keeping on!


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

sendit6 said:


> I hear ya. I'm in Pittsburgh and maybe folks decision making protocol is a bit different here, but the way it seems to work here is people need to disseminate and digest the proposal. That seems to typically take anywhere from 1 day to two weeks. My estimates very clearly state that they're not valid beyond 14 days. Obviously this is so I don't get strung out for weeks.
> 
> Incidentally, I just had new carpet/hardwood installed in my home. I had 3 companies estimate, and thought about it over a few days and made a decison.
> 
> ...


I'm in a fairly small town (60K) and have lived here since 63. Being a long time resident and knowing lots of people are definately factors in the majority of my work being referral. Also the clientele is a factor. I'm fortunate to have gotten in with many of the college professors, professional types, and engineers that largely make up the upper level income brackets here. I also get many referrals from high producing realtors. I know many dislike working with them but they have become an important part of my business. When they tell a client that I do great work and that I've done most of the painting in their own homes, those clients listen. Also, the recession didn't hit as hard here as it did in many areas. Many of my customers are more concerned about quality than price. I never take that for granted though. If you do then you'll soon be wondering where all those customers went. I always strive to have my price and work quality equal a good value for my customers. 

I think being in a larger market could be more difficult in many ways. There you're just another painting outfit to most people. But, you also have a larger market to draw upon. Not sure if one outweighs the other.


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## ROOMINADAY (Mar 20, 2009)

Well said Research.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

For me I need to constantly battle my own laziness, I've told myself many times over the years I should do the estimate on the spot, because if I don't , it can be days before I get it done and back to them. When I finish it on the spot, and deliver it, it's a huge relief, as it's one less thing I need to think about later on. It's such a struggle rushing from here to there, trying to force myself to take a few extra minutes to figure out the bid and write it up. When in the field I use Pre-printed 3 part forms that I put a bunch of logo type stuff at the top where it's open. I have used Pre-printed scope of work for typical exteriors so that I don't have to write up the bulk of the same stuff over and over. It really doesn't take that long to figure out most residential bids, not nearly as much time as I spend procrastinating if I wait to do it at home. That being said I need to finish up a bid I looked at several days ago before the snowstorm shut down the Seattle area. That's my excuse for being late anyways....


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> With the greatest of respect to both methods, I am wondering if this topic is being over thought.


Can one over think improving business?


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

researchhound said:


> I think being in a larger market could be more difficult in many ways. There you're just another painting outfit to most people. But, you also have a larger market to draw upon. Not sure if one outweighs the other.


In your case Dan I would bet the outcome would be the same since you have cultivated your business for such a long time and obviously do it in a defined professional manner. 

Upon more thought I think the outcome is essentially the same between larger and smaller markets, if you offer a professional value to your customers, enjoy what you do, build relationships, learn from your mistakes then I think the building blocks are being placed to succeed.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

bikerboy said:


> Can one over think improving business?


Yes.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Paralysis by analysis?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

bikerboy said:


> Paralysis by analysis?


It happens. 

I think its important to go with the flow a little bit. If a meeting seems to call for the immediate close, go for it. Alot of the times, putting a little space in between it is good too. 

I'm not a big believer in being too scripted in small business. I know it is what the business textbooks call for, but I dont think it fits well with the small business model. There are definitely Ken Fenners who are so gifted in sales that they can be running on a script without it appearing that way. Its probably awkward as hell for most, and comes off that way. Not that all one calls are scripted, but that seems to be the prevalent model. 

Its not like we need a gazillion leads closed to run 5 guys or less. I believe in being selective. Its no secret that I go with a model of not needing more leads and closes, but needing better leads and closes. And yes, I realize that a larger pool should generate more of the better ones, but I wonder if there is a point of diminishing return in there somewhere that small businesses dont need to cross.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> It happens.
> 
> I think its important to go with the flow a little bit. If a meeting seems to call for the immediate close, go for it. Alot of the times, putting a little space in between it is good too.
> 
> ...


 
Definitely don't chase after every lead, that is the purpose of qualifying customers. But think you should work at closing those you can. A good sales plan is just that, a plan, you have to be able to adjust. People are not all the same so a one plan fits all approach won't work. 

Closing early and often is just one aspect of a plan. A tool in a box full of tools. If you don't close on the spot, your plan changes and you follow up, you utilize another tool. By choosing another tool, your attempts to close have doubled. In the end it is a numbers game. You have to collect so many no's to get a yes.

McDonald's "Do you want some fries with that?" is my favorite analogy for this. McDonald's knows that you won't say yes all or even most of the time, but the chances increase proportionally by asking. There is NO chance of adding on the fries if you don't ask.

Trying to close on the spot is just one more way of increasing the odds in your favor. 

JMHO anyway.


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## premierpainter (Apr 17, 2007)

sendit6 said:


> I just have a hard time believing that some guys have an on the spot closing rate as high as they claim on here.
> 
> We always estimate and try to close the same day.  We have a close rate of 46%.
> 
> Follow the ABC's.... Always Be Closing!!


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

I agree with Scott to some extent about worrying too much about certain things but on the flip side, not worrying (at least a little bit) about the big things such as marketing and selling can and will stunt your growth.

Everyone has different styles but growth (in life and business) comes from venturing outside your comfort zone. No one here at paint Talk invented selling nor have they revolutionized it. So all we can do is increase the odds into our favor. 

CA Painter's smaller cross section survey is on-point. Its always better to be the first guy to call back and the first one to do a presentation/proposal. People are only looking for the right fit. The way I look at it, I am that right fit. No one will give better results, service, and follow up. Why keep looking?


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

****


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## LA Painter (Jul 28, 2009)

vermontpainter said:


> I think its important to go with the flow a little bit. If a meeting seems to call for the immediate close, go for it. Alot of the times, putting a little space in between it is good too.
> I'm not a big believer in being too scripted in small business.


I agree. It’s good to have a few different systems in place, and be prepared to use the one that’s most appropriate at the time. 

I did a bid this morning for a lady who’s response to every question I asked was; _“I’ll have to check with my husband”_. No point in attempting to bid/close on the spot with her. :whistling2:


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

LA Painter said:


> I agree. It’s good to have a few different systems in place, and be prepared to use the one that’s most appropriate at the time.
> 
> I did a bid this morning for a lady who’s response to every question I asked was; _“I’ll have to check with my husband”_. No point in attempting to bid/close on the spot with her. :whistling2:


The classic "one-legger". Nearly impossible to overcome.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

PressurePros said:


> The classic "one-legger". Nearly impossible to overcome.


Had one this past summer who I could tell was asking questions (and writing down answers) just so she could figure out how she could do it herself. I cut that one short pretty quickly.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

researchhound said:


> Had one this past summer who I could tell was asking questions (and writing down answers) just so she could figure out how she could do it herself. I cut that one short pretty quickly.


They call that " free consulting"!


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## Connecticut Painters (Nov 24, 2009)

I do both depending on the situation. Sometimes I need to think about a little longer and sometimes I am pretty sure about the cost. As far as them taking notes so they can paint it themselves, knowing how a painter will paint it and doing it yourself it's completely two different things and most of the times they call me to finish it up anyway.


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## DanielMDollaPainting (Feb 24, 2011)

I just sold some ceilings today on the spot for my days work tomorrow. Bigger jobs I always get back to them asap via email.


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## TJohnson21 (Apr 3, 2012)

Personally, i was trained to close on the spot. I offer a 10% discount off coupon for jobs booked on the spot, this is not enough to have them book with me, but it is enough to put them over the edge if i have done my job right. My first year in business i had a 60% booking rate on the spot, some refferals, mostly cold calls. residential, avg job size $2200.

i don't often get "callbacks". then again I dont put much effort into getting call backs.

My ideal would be this: 

On the spot estimates, with a ipad app and folder to do my presentation. after walking them through the ipad presentation to cover there possible objections and concerns, i would leave the book with them to thumb through while i crunch numbers.

Have a estimater app with my personal logo and style of bid. crunch them numbers

heres where im not 100% sure.

I would like to do both email and paper. 
I want to close them on the spot and have a signature ( digital or on paper)
also having a personal digital back up ( i hate paper work)
after its said and done ( booked or not) i would like to leave them a physical copy and shoot a quick email for digital copy.


too much? what do you think?


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## Sir Mixalot (Sep 8, 2009)

Great thread. I used to do estimates on the spot. Now I pretty much only email and give a follow up call after about two day's. I can give a much more proffesional looking proposal this way, have time to think about all of the aspects of the project and most importantly I'm more likely to give a price that is fair to the customer and Me. :thumbsup:


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## lmvp17 (May 15, 2010)

TJohnson21 said:


> Personally, i was trained to close on the spot. I offer a 10% discount off coupon for jobs booked on the spot, this is not enough to have them book with me, but it is enough to put them over the edge if i have done my job right. My first year in business i had a 60% booking rate on the spot, some refferals, mostly cold calls. residential, avg job size $2200.
> 
> i don't often get "callbacks". then again I dont put much effort into getting call backs.
> 
> ...


I just bought a tablet for exactly what you just said. Now trying to find the right apps/programs/systems.... But doing it old school until its right.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Having time to do the bid at home is often a myth I tell myself. When do I really have a better time to crunch the bid than while sitting in the van after having just walked the job. It may take me a whole 5-10 minutes that I don't think I can spare at the moment, but it sure beats not getting it back to people in a timely manner. By the time I finally get home it's tough to get motivated to go crunch numbers. I have put together a presentation folder with Pre-printed typical exterior scope, and use carbon copy proposals with my logo stuff at the top for specifics. If I wanted to be really cool I could try to print to a wireless printer from my iPad, but don't know how to do that without a wi-fi connection.


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

you do no one a favor by quoting on the spot. Sometimes it is so much more complicated than just a number.. can you add in all the if's, and's, or but's on the spot? 

Why must you offer something $ off for someone to hire you?

What ever happened to charging what the job cost, because it comes out of your pocket either way? I don't see many people being able to do an "on spot" quote that would be worth a darn. Some people RCP included have 2 heads that think things over and talk them out so it may be a bit better.. and possibly able to be done.. but if you are your on your own.. unless you just pull a number out your back-side.. I don't see how this benefits you OR your customer.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

nEighter said:


> you do no one a favor by quoting on the spot. Sometimes it is so much more complicated than just a number.. can you add in all the if's, and's, or but's on the spot?
> 
> Why must you offer something $ off for someone to hire you?
> 
> What ever happened to charging what the job cost, because it comes out of your pocket either way? I don't see many people being able to do an "on spot" quote that would be worth a darn. Some people RCP included have 2 heads that think things over and talk them out so it may be a bit better.. and possibly able to be done.. but if you are your on your own.. unless you just pull a number out your back-side.. I don't see how this benefits you OR your customer.



I agree that for many, maybe even most, doing on the spot bids may not be the best way to go. You definitely shouldn't ever allow yourself to be pressured into doing it by an over eager customer. But for me, two things come into play for me in being able to do accurate bids on the spot - experience and job size. 

I've been doing this for almost 40 years so I've been able to refine and improve my bidding process so I'm pretty comfortable with most of my on the spot bids. I also only do interior work so that helps narrow down the variables. I feel there are usually less surprises in interior work.

However, if it's a really large project, or if there is a lot of detail work involved (cabinets, miles of trim, lots of windows and doors in bad shape, etc), then more time will be needed to double and triple check numbers and I'll get back to them with my bid. 

I don't give discounts for customers that commit on the spot. 

Don't think I've ever pulled one out of my ass... well okay, maybe a few times... long ago... it hurt. :shutup:


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

I don't pull numbers out of my a$$ either. What I meant was after doing a detailed takeoff during my walk though, it doesn't take that much more time to sit down with either my iPad or legal pad and crunch the numbers for a typical interior or exterior repaint. I have production rates for every task, and also check those against my gut as there are variables that need to be taken into account on a case by case basis; access challenges, lead paint containment; uptight client; and others as well.


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## PaintingContractorNJ (May 10, 2012)

I always take notes and photos at the in home estimate, and work my numbers out in my office, then I shoot them an email pricing and call them shortly after to verify if they got it!

I don't like people breathing down my neck while I am calculating costs.


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

We live in a world dominated by immediate gratification. On the spot estimating has advantages that have been mentioned. 

• It is off your plate and sets you up for follow up instead of just another task to add to your do-list. 
• If you've done a good presentation, you are striking while the iron is hot. You get excited about making a purchase and that is when you are far more likely statistically to say "yes". 
• It moves buyers away from "shopping" to "decision making". Even if you don't close on the spot, you have given the customer ammunition to start making a decision. 

Try not to let yourself get caught in the trap of fear that creates hurdles for yourself. You are there because people need a paint job. You are the most qualified to do the job, yes? You've invested time, right? Then it is perfectly fine to present, ask for the sale, and pursue the business via follow up when necessary. Everything else you are telling yourself about bothering people, being pushy etc is just fear.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

I go back to the office where I can carefully consider all the parameters. On the spot estimates induces mistakes for me.


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

Bill, I am gonna call BS on that. I can bet that if you and I toured 5 houses and I asked you for an idea of the cost 5 minutes after seeing the work, you'd be accurate with your more thought out bid later. 

If a person is going back to later think about the job before they bid, then they may not using an efficient system of estimating. The issue with doing that is a company may never be able to grow beyond its owner/estimator. 

Bill, let me call you on the carpet before I leave here. What circumstances would you need to later think about that would hinder an on-the-spot proposal? Same question to everyone that answered with that disclaimer.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Ken.

remember I have to give rollage amounts also. That involves a strip count which includes calculations involving repeats, roll lengths, paper widths, wall sizes and when I am doing a grass cloth, figuring out the seam placement

last week I estimated an incredibly complicated hall. No two walls were the same height, plus the necessity to figure how to set up the staging for the stair (21 foot drop)

Ken, I am sure your way works for you, and after a couple of years in the business, I have found what works best for me.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

I went to do an estimate on Monday. The HO had called 5 star painting as well. he carries a laptop and a small printer and provides printed estimates on the spot.


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

daArch said:


> Ken.
> 
> remember I have to give rollage amounts also. That involves a strip count which includes calculations involving repeats, roll lengths, paper widths, wall sizes and when I am doing a grass cloth, figuring out the seam placement
> 
> ...


Bill, I am not saying it doesn't work for you nor am I saying that you should adopt anyone else's way. I am saying that everything is a calculation and can be streamlined into an efficient way of presenting faster bidding. I also understand that there are some jobs that may require research into material pricing, etc. There are many companies out there that sell complete renovations including plumbing, electrical, flooring, painting, demo, etc and they do it on the spot. They know their costs and everything is in a spreadsheet based upon measurements and tried and true efficiency rates.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Anytime you would like to come up and travel with me to a few estimates and show me how to give an on the spot *accurate* estimate, you are more than welcome.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

I think it really comes down to the type of personality you are. If I were to call somebody to come give me an estimate for something I think is a pretty penny for me. I definitely do not want some guy to shove a price in my face and stand there waiting for a response. This is just me and why I always email them later with a bid.

I wonder what the percentages of the guys who give estimates on the spot and the customer still says, "thanks let me think about it" to "lets do it"?

Pat


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Usually when I get called to bid, I'm usually the first to answer the phone for them, and schedule an estimate, first one to actually do the estimate.

This means, they usually are waiting for 2 other people to respond and give them an estimate so they can compare. They are doing what the internet suggests, get 3-4 estimates, references, etc.

This is for new leads, not repeat or referral based.

It usually does me no good to give them a price then since they are going to wait for a couple more bids. 

But yeah, I agree with Pat that I don't like somebody shoving a price in my face and trying to get me to go with it. I like to take some time and compare other options before I make a big purchase. I assume other intelligent people do as well.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

TJ Paint said:


> I assume other intelligent people do as well.


Now there's something I try to avoid - intelligent people.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

PressurePros;317341
There are many companies out there that sell complete renovations including plumbing said:


> Yup, and from my experience, they usually depend on subbing out to the lowest bidder, take forever to pay because their cash flow stinks, and cause headaches for the HO because nobody is ever there that is in charge.
> 
> Renovation work can be easier to assess as well, because basically you're starting from scratch rather than working with old substrates and the problems with calculating the elements involved with that.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Also, from my experience, total reno's are never firmly priced. Just the weekly variables in material costs negate that possibility.

I can give an on the spot ESTIMATE as long as I can swing 10% either way. But most of my customers want to know they need 20 rolls of wallpaper NOT between 18 to 22 when some of the stuff costs $110 a roll.

it does take me a relaxed unrushed atmosphere to give a firm proposal.

Being an old dog, I am slow to learn new tricks


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

PressurePros said:


> We live in a world dominated by immediate gratification. On the spot estimating has advantages that have been mentioned.
> • It is off your plate and sets you up for follow up instead of just another task to add to your do-list.
> • If you've done a good presentation, you are striking while the iron is hot. You get excited about making a purchase and that is when you are far more likely statistically to say "yes".
> • It moves buyers away from "shopping" to "decision making". Even if you don't close on the spot, you have given the customer ammunition to start making a decision.
> ...


Key points Ken and exactly why I try and submit the majority of my bids on the spot. 

If I have anyone over to do a bid for me on a moderate to small job, whether it be a plumber, electrician, tree pruner, I feel frustrated when they say they need to call me back with a price. Obviously there may be times when there are extenuating circumstances that might prevent it but in most instances I feel they should be able to give me the number right then and there. And, if their price seems reasonable and I feel I can trust the person or company, I will probably just commit then and there. If I'm told they'll get back to me, I will be more likely to push on with getting additional bids since they've now given me some extra time before I'll know their price.

I'd be interested in checking this thread to see if anyone who said they prefer to submit a bid later so they can be sure of their numbers also stated on another thread that they liked the idea of having their prices posted on their website.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

TJ Paint said:


> Usually when I get called to bid, I'm usually the first to answer the phone for them, and schedule an estimate, first one to actually do the estimate.
> 
> This means, they usually are waiting for 2 other people to respond and give them an estimate so they can compare. They are doing what the internet suggests, get 3-4 estimates, references, etc.
> 
> ...


TJ - 
I agree with most of what you said. If people are going to get other bids then giving yours at that moment may not make a difference either way. However, I am always surprised at how many people don't get other bids (or would prefer not to do so). Giving them a price on the spot may often seal the deal. Of course most of my jobs are referrals or repeats so it's almost always easier to lock those types of jobs up. 

I too would be put off by someone trying to pressure me into making a decision on the spot so I never do that. I simply give them the bid and then it's up to them to either commit then or hold off.


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## mpminter (Mar 21, 2011)

I have read this thread with great interest as on-the-spot estimating is something I would really like to start doing. My issue is that I do not have a good estimating system in place, and my first number is usually way off. I find that I really need to sit down, look over my notes and pictures and mull it over before putting a price out there or else I end up making a pretty serious mistake either one way or the other. I really want to get some spreadsheets going so I can get bids out quicker, but without a tried and true system, I'm afraid I would just be shooting myself in the foot by giving numbers on the spot.


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## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

researchhound said:


> TJ -
> I agree with most of what you said. If people are going to get other bids then giving yours at that moment may not make a difference either way. However, I am always surprised at how many people don't get other bids (or would prefer not to do so). Giving them a price on the spot may often seal the deal. Of course most of my jobs are referrals or repeats so it's almost always easier to lock those types of jobs up.
> 
> I too would be put off by someone trying to pressure me into making a decision on the spot so I never do that. I simply give them the bid and then it's up to them to either commit then or hold off.


I have completely changed the way i think about bidding over the past two months. I think even if the lead is a refferal, or if its cold you still benefit from doing it on the spot. Sales is emotional, buying is based on relationship more than the product. If you've spent time with a potential client and done a good presentation the prospect is still "hot". The more time you let go by after that the colder it becomes. The less they remember. 

When i hear they have to get other bids, or they have to think about it..i usually take that as i didnt develop enough trust in my presentation/ time spent. I didnt build enough value to my services to justify my price.

I really dont like to pressure people into making a sale on the spot either but when you are working strictly in sales for a company in this industry that is your best chance. Walking away and expecting a call back or following up decreases your chances by 99%. Actually have not made one sale when i walked away. Made several on the spot.

When you start listening to the customers objections and take them as fact you are screwed.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

mpminter said:


> I have read this thread with great interest as on-the-spot estimating is something I would really like to start doing. My issue is that I do not have a good estimating system in place, and my first number is usually way off. I find that I really need to sit down, look over my notes and pictures and mull it over before putting a price out there or else I end up making a pretty serious mistake either one way or the other. I really want to get some spreadsheets going so I can get bids out quicker, but without a tried and true system, I'm afraid I would just be shooting myself in the foot by giving numbers on the spot.


if you're not comfortable doing it then by all means don't. However, I would consider practicing on smaller jobs where there are less variables and potential for costly errors. As you gain experience and confidence in your system you can start increasing your on the spot closures. Remember though, I don't do them either on sizable jobs or those with lots of little details to work out. Doesn't have to be an "either/or" situation.




StripandCaulk said:


> I have completely changed the way i think about bidding over the past two months. I think even if the lead is a refferal, or if its cold you still benefit from doing it on the spot. Sales is emotional, buying is based on relationship more than the product. If you've spent time with a potential client and done a good presentation the prospect is still "hot". The more time you let go by after that the colder it becomes. The less they remember.
> 
> When i hear they have to get other bids, or they have to think about it..i usually take that as i didnt develop enough trust in my presentation/ time spent. I didnt build enough value to my services to justify my price.
> 
> ...


For many that is totally what it's about. Then there are the methodical - I'm getting get twenty other bids" types. Go for the closure when ever you can but be prepared to adjust for those you perceive may be put off by pressure tactics. 

Possibly. But we know there are those types who will never make "snap" decision and just need the time to mull it over - no matter how good a job you did presenting.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

My typical first time customer is" savy" in that they read all the" how to hire a painting contractor" articles. That means they get 3 to 4 bids, ask for references and call my references before they decide to go with me. My average response time for these customers, especially if the job exceeds 2k takes about a week. 

Repeat customers and referalls are totoally different and don't require the extra stuff or time to make a decision.

S&C i know youre getting into the philosophy and psychology of sales but for a new customer trust is earned generally. One way people are taught that for painting is to check out references. 

Yes some is first impressions but that doesn't mean its the only thing required for an intelligent decision. I want my customer to purchase my services not only on an emotional whim, because that feeling may change before the project is finished. I want them to carry with them sound logical thoughts concerning the project with them as well. This helps when potential snags may develope, and makes things stay straight forward and stable. 

It's how I intend to approach my next serious relationship with a woman come to think of it... if I decide temp flings and lust are getting boring...


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

I do believe that different scopes of projects can be best bid with different methods.

For me, a small powder or a one accent wall can be done "on the spot", but for them I can do an estimate without even visiting. I do not give an over the phone estimate because they need to have in writing how much paper they need - people screw that up more than I'd like to remember. But those types of estimate can be in their inbox in very short order.

I am sure for you painter guys, a quick one room, two coats, no furniture to move, is so straight forward you can spit it out in an instant. But when you start dealing with access (what lift do I need?), decades old peeling paint, shrubbery, etc, you need the time to put all the variables together and generate a well composed proposal.

When I have my tree guy look at some removals, he looks over the job and can tell me on the spot. He knows it will take his crew one day.

When I had major work done on the swimming pool, I had three estimates, all sent me proposals that I was happy to compare. Just the liners were different qualities and prices let alone the new filters and concrete work.

I wouldn't marry myself to any one method for all jobs


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

TJ if I decide temp flings and lust are getting boring... :)[/QUOTE said:


> Yeah, right. As has been said before, "Nice problem to have." :thumbup1:


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## PaintingContractorNJ (May 10, 2012)

I deal 98% residential and I find it tough to concentrate with the homeowner right there asking questions, their dog barking and any number of distractions while I am taking measurements and jotting down figures, etc. 

I always try to get a feel for when a potential customer is looking to get their project started and when they are looking to make a decision on who they intend to hire. Sometimes I am the first to give them an estimate and sometimes I am the last. But I don't feel the need to give an estimate on the spot and I don't want to risk, over looking a pricing factor that will cause me to under bid the job. Customers are not looking to make a snap decision and I am certainly not looking to make a snap decision that may cause me to take a loss (even if its only $50.00 on a $1,000.00 job)!

If someone can't wait for my estimate to arrive via email, well, they can hire the poor bastard that gave an inaccurate estimate on the spot. 

This is what my estimate sent via email looks like:


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Nice paint.:jester:


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

researchhound said:


> Key points Ken and exactly why I try and submit the majority of my bids on the spot.
> 
> If I have anyone over to do a bid for me on a moderate to small job, whether it be a plumber, electrician, tree pruner, I feel frustrated when they say they need to call me back with a price. Obviously there may be times when there are extenuating circumstances that might prevent it but in most instances I feel they should be able to give me the number right then and there. *And, if their price seems reasonable and I feel I can trust the person or company, I will probably just commit then and there.* If I'm told they'll get back to me, *I will be more likely to push on with getting additional bids* since they've now given me some extra time before I'll know their price.
> 
> I'd be interested in checking this thread to see if anyone who said they prefer to submit a bid later so they can be sure of their numbers also stated on another thread that they liked the idea of having their prices posted on their website.


I am exactly like you. Got done work early to go wait for a tile guy. Small job 170 s/f and 25s/f backsplash. I have already ripped to subfloor. I gave him a per s/f dollar allowance for tile. No only did he not give me a price, he is snail mailing me a proposal. Now this guy gets rave reviews but he was dry as a bone. No personality. Didn't get me one bit excited about the project. Showed me nothing. Has no website. Doesn't use email and from his own lips, he is not super busy (must be the economy, right?) 

I'm sure he knows his stuff and he is now in the price pool with the rest. Some of you guys want to keep reverting back to the "I don't want to be sold" mantra. More BS covering the fear of selling. If you present right, the customer WANTS to do business with you. You don't need to do snake oil dances, lie, be slimy, pushy or unethical. Show enthusiasm! make the customer WANT the the paint job. They already know they need it, but people what they want, not what they need. Benefits benefits benefits LOL.. I hope one day we can all get together and I can show you how an introvert like me has learned a few simple tips that when practiced unlock the key to closing sales.


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## PaintingContractorNJ (May 10, 2012)

researchhound said:


> Key points Ken and exactly why I try and submit the majority of my bids on the spot.
> 
> If I have anyone over to do a bid for me on a moderate to small job, whether it be a plumber, electrician, tree pruner, *I feel frustrated when they say they need to call me back with a price. *Obviously there may be times when there are extenuating circumstances that might prevent it but in most instances I feel they should be able to give me the number right then and there. And, if their price seems reasonable and I feel I can trust the person or company, I will probably just commit then and there. If I'm told they'll get back to me, I will be more likely to push on with getting additional bids since they've now given me some extra time before I'll know their price.
> 
> I'd be interested in checking this thread to see if anyone who said they prefer to submit a bid later so they can be sure of their numbers also stated on another thread that they liked the idea of having their prices posted on their website.


*You need to have patients. Rome wasn't built in a day!  *

If the contractor gave you a price on the spot, are you going to hire him on the spot? Especially if he is your first estimate and his price is in the thousands? 

When you go to buy a new vehicle, and the salesmen says, "would you like to take this vehicle home tonight"? Do you not go home and think about buying or do you make a decision on the spot? I would hope you'd think about it before buying!

My out look is this: most people, no matter how fast I get them an estimate, want to take their time and shop around! So why be in a hurry to blurt out a price - to quickly satisfy their shopping curiosity?

I am not in business to give shoppers immediate price gratification. I am in business to do the work at an accurate price that I can live with!


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

PaintingContractorNJ said:


> You need to have patients. Rome wasn't built in a day!
> 
> If the contractor gave you a price on the spot, are you going to hire him on the spot? Especially if he is your first estimate and his price is in the thousands?
> 
> ...


Patience, not patients ...Dr. 

Yes, I'd like my price right now thank you. I buy cars on the spot all the time too. My salesman is a good friend, I know I'm getting what I'm paying for. You wouldn't give a repeat customer a price on the spot? Maybe I'm missing something. Unless its a major job where you'd have to look at prints, I don't see why giving an estimate before you leave is hard to do. Especially with the tools and technology available now, it seems like it just makes more sense.


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## PaintingContractorNJ (May 10, 2012)

NCPaint1 said:


> Patience, not patients ...Dr.
> 
> Yes, I'd like my price right now thank you. I buy cars on the spot all the time too. *My salesman is a good friend,* I know I'm getting what I'm paying for. You wouldn't give a repeat customer a price on the spot? Maybe I'm missing something. Unless its a major job where you'd have to look at prints, I don't see why giving an estimate before you leave is hard to do. Especially with the tools and technology available now, it seems like it just makes more sense.


*Thanks for pointing out a spelling error, that in itself is why I don't give a price on the spot! Errors!!!!!!!!!!!!*

*You are buying from a friend? How many customers that you give a quote to on the spot are your friend? BTW - I don't do work for family or friends!* 

I did post why I wouldn't give a price on the spot, please don't make me repeat myself - Teacher! 

Here is my Van that I shopped 1 week for before buying! As most, my salesmen was not my friend!


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

why is this turning into a classic PT pissing match ?

Some people prefer one way, others another.

Why do we worry so much when others do it differently than the way we do.

this IS America, land of the free to do it your own damn way.

Potato Tomatoe


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## y.painting (Jul 19, 2009)

Depends a lot on the project. I think that type of projects Ken is talking about are more palatable to on-the-spot sell vs a painting/restoration project for 7-10K that will take 1-2 weeks to complete.


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

y.painting said:


> Depends a lot on the project. I think that type of projects Ken is talking about are more palatable to on-the-spot sell vs a painting/restoration project for 7-10K that will take 1-2 weeks to complete.


For my other startup company I sell $30K jobs on the spot. Full remodels from demo to finish trim. It works for all companies. It is not without downside though. The + or- 10% of costs Bill spoke of has to be factored as a win for the company. That means on some bids you would be 10% more than your normal pricing. 

Bill, not a pissing match at all. I couldn't care less what anyone else does. Just sharing what is tried and true as per experience. Everyone needs to be exposed to all forms of business and then decide what is right for them. My only wish is for everyone to make profits versus being in a harried hobby that barely pays the bills without a significant others salary.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

PaintingContractorNJ said:


> Thanks for pointing out a spelling error, that in itself is why I don't give a price on the spot! Errors!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> You are buying from a friend? How many customers that you give a quote to on the spot are your friend? BTW - I don't do work for family or friends!
> 
> ...


Sorry dude, just asking in general. I see why people wouldn't do it in certain instances. Some jobs it would make sense to though. Have to take it on a case by case basis.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

daArch said:


> why is this turning into a classic PT pissing match ?
> Some people prefer one way, others another.
> Why do we worry so much when others do it differently than the way we do.
> this IS America, land of the free to do it your own damn way.
> Potato Tomatoe


Agreed Bill. I'm not trying to talk anyone into doing on the spot bids or condemning those who don't. Everyone needs to determine what works best for them and go with it. I think I've tried to make that very clear.

In my case, I've been bidding for more years than I care to remember. In fact, that's all I did for a company for a number of years. So, I feel totally comfortable presenting on the spot bids which are accurate, profitable, and fair to myself and my customers. But, if the job is a big one, or complicated, that bid will be presented at a later time. Adjust the method to match the job - pretty simple really.


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## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

PaintingContractorNJ said:


> *You need to have patients. Rome wasn't built in a day! *
> 
> If the contractor gave you a price on the spot, are you going to hire him on the spot? Especially if he is your first estimate and his price is in the thousands?
> 
> ...


 
Let me ask you a question, how long are you there for? why do they need to shop around?


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## Rusty (Apr 28, 2012)

I agree with all your pro's and con's. I do both depending on the size of the job. And to those who asked - I do close on the spot. Especially with repeats and referrals. I prefer doing it on the spot for all the reasons in your pro's., but also to get it done and off my to do list. I've got 2 young boys that keep me busy enough in the evenings.


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## Steve Burnett (May 28, 2012)

Hands down on the spot! This significantly increases my close ratio which is currently at 66% year to date. I closed last year with 73%.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

Steve Burnett said:


> Hands down on the spot! This significantly increases my close ratio which is currently at 66% year to date. I closed last year with 73%.


66% says to me you are not charging enough. Mine right now is close to 30% which I like 

Pat


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## Steve Burnett (May 28, 2012)

PatsPainting said:


> 66% says to me you are not charging enough. Mine right now is close to 30% which I like
> 
> Pat


Hi Pat,

Generally speaking I would agree with you. 

However, I qualify every lead before scheduling it to be sure they are our target market. 
Send a Hand written note before the appointment. 
At the estimate I ask questions and the listen carefully to learn of their specific needs on what they value most. 
Make sure I have established rapport
Do my take off and have with me a full color preprinted proposal in portfolio bound including our unique selling propositions. 
Ask for the sale.

Then appropriate follow up if it didn't close at the first meeting as well as an additional hand written note card. 

With a 20% profit margin and 83% of closed sales being referrals, I believe our price is right where it should be. 

Steve


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## PaintingContractorNJ (May 10, 2012)

StripandCaulk said:


> Let me ask you a question, how long are you there for? why do they need to shop around?


I am there as long as I need to be.

I can't answer for other people. But I believe it is human nature, to make sure, one is getting a fair price! Through my experience, most people don't know the value of a paint job and are normally surprised at the cost!


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## PaintingContractorNJ (May 10, 2012)

Steve Burnett said:


> Hands down on the spot! This significantly increases my close ratio which is currently at 66% year to date. I closed last year with 73%.


Hi Steve, sounds like you are a real salesmen!

I don't believe in closing at the original estimate! This may sound odd, but I like the homeowner to have time to think about my proposal. I want them to see what is out there, and know for sure, that I am the right contractor to hire! And being sure, requires the time, to carefully think things over!


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

Steve, first welcome to the forum, glad you are here. I have seen you around and I thought it was here but realized It was over at Google +

Huge props and you must have a great system if you are closing 83% with a 20% profit margin. even if its just referrals. I think these days, for most that is really not that common.

Pat


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## Finn (Dec 18, 2011)

ProWallGuy said:


> I've done both. When I had employees, I usually did it on the spot, because I had the time to do it while others were generating cash flow.
> Now that I'm on my own, I usually email it so I can get back on the wall and make some money.
> 
> But this doesn't have to be:
> ...


I bought a similar printer this evening. And am using an android tablet. I plan to do the estimate on the spot, but i wont give it to them, i will post it on the way home or email it that next morning.


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## Steve Burnett (May 28, 2012)

Give it to them on the spot, read their reaction, and if appropriate , ASK FOR THE SALE!!! (every time ).


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Steve Burnett said:


> Give it to them on the spot, read their reaction, and if appropriate , ASK FOR THE SALE!!! (every time ).


I completely agree. 

Everything we do from an advertising point of view is designed to accomplish one thing - enable us to meet with the customer and make the sale. So why, if the job is a good fit and you're confident in your numbers, would you ever want the customer to think it over and perhaps consider going with another company? There are times when _I_ may need more time to go over things, or when the customer has made it clear they need time to consider, so I'll take, or allow, for extra time in those situations. But if everything lines up and I'm confident in my bid then I'd be crazy not to ask for the sale and try and close the deal then and there. 

People who have you into their home to talk about a job usually want to make a decision soon. So I make every attempt to convince them of our value and that we are a good fit for the job (assuming we are) in order to entice them to decide. Not closing a deal that is ripe for doing so is simply wasting more of my time, possibly squandering an opportunity, or even denying the customer of what they actually want. It's not a matter of being pushy and acting like a used car salesman. It's a matter of reading the customer, determining their needs and wants, and then selling your service as the best one that will help them achieve their goals. Then, when the job is in progress, make good on those claims.


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## wje (Apr 11, 2009)

For smaller Residential repaints, It is pretty easy to calculate a cost and get the job on the spot. 

Anything that will take our crew over 2 days, i need to figure the numbers out into more detail. Missing a closet here, and a door there won't sink you on a 3 room repaint, but if you are doing a complete interior repaint, I generally take a few hours to work out the price and write up the Estimate. My more detailed repaints usually contain 5-8 pages. I am not writing that up in somebodies driveway. I am also not likely getting that job on the spot.

I don't ask for the sale. We are always busy, and always getting new calls. Most people want things done yesterday, So I tell them the truth and let them know, the sooner they decide the sooner we can schedule. And I don't hold any time slots open, until I have got the job.


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