# Water stains in the middle of a flat ceiling



## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

So I'm finishing up a basement Reno, when my customer asks me if I can repair her water damaged ceiling. She had someone come in and dry out/repair the damage on the ceiling but now she would like me to sand his quick set and prime out the damage then finish the ceiling. 

My question is do any of you have any tricks of not having to roll out the entire ceiling in coverstain, then finish with my flat latex?


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

Here is the area in which this ceiling is located. Brand new Reno

Sent from my SGH-T989D using PaintTalk.com mobile app


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

looks like an all day prime and paint job from here,

at least


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## The 3rd Coat (Aug 17, 2013)

I've had success in the past with with BIN on the stains, then sanding the BIN once dry, then a full coat of Zinsser ceiling paint. However this is not completely flat, has a bit of sheen.


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## Repaintpro (Oct 2, 2012)

We have always been very hit and miss with these kind of touch ups. Some work very well and some don't with no real rhyme or reason to success or failure. 

If this was my job however I would be looking at repainting the whole thing as the natural light is just pouring over those ceilings.


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## benthepainter (Jun 17, 2011)

Repaintpro said:


> We have always been very hit and miss with these kind of touch ups. Some work very well and some don't with no real rhyme or reason to success or failure. If this was my job however I would be looking at repainting the whole thing as the natural light is just pouring over those ceilings.


I don't **** around with touch ups myself I just charge to paint the whole ceiling . 
I'm sure there are many who charge to paint the whole ceiling but then just touch up lol


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

The ceiling was freshly painted there should be no reason you can prime and touch up what is there.


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## Repaintpro (Oct 2, 2012)

cdpainting said:


> The ceiling was freshly painted there should be no reason you can prime and touch up what is there.


I have smashed my head against many a wall thinking the exact same thing. Sometimes it just does not want to touch up!


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## benthepainter (Jun 17, 2011)

Just make a day of it bring your lunch table and chairs and have great day


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## The 3rd Coat (Aug 17, 2013)

cdpainting said:


> The ceiling was freshly painted there should be no reason you can prime and touch up what is there.


He's worried about the stain blocker's sheen flashing through the flat topcoat.

What you could also try is sand the stain blocker to dull it, then go over those areas with a flat undercoat, and see if it's flashing before you apply the ceiling flat.


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## Phinnster (Feb 20, 2013)

As far as flashing
Use ur primer ( bin or cover stain )
Then hit the spots once with paint ( as if it is primer) 
Then roll whole thing out or roll feather the next coat out


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## The 3rd Coat (Aug 17, 2013)

Phinnster said:


> As far as flashing
> Use ur primer ( bin or cover stain )
> Then hit the spots once with paint ( as if it is primer)
> Then roll whole thing out or roll feather the next coat out


You can put 5 coats of flat on BIN patches, they will still flash.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Phinnster said:


> As far as flashing
> Use ur primer ( bin or cover stain )
> Then hit the spots once with paint ( as if it is primer)
> Then roll whole thing out or roll feather the next coat out


:yes:


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

The 3rd Coat said:


> You can put 5 coats of flat on BIN patches, they will still flash.


True coverstain better choice.


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## The 3rd Coat (Aug 17, 2013)

I can't see why that would be any different. Every stain blocking primer is shiny.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

Phinnster said:


> As far as flashing
> Use ur primer ( bin or cover stain )
> Then hit the spots once with paint ( as if it is primer)
> Then roll whole thing out or roll feather the next coat out


You are correct sir:thumbsup:


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

The 3rd Coat said:


> You can put 5 coats of flat on BIN patches, they will still flash.


Never had that problem. Those areas will dry slower(look like lashing) but should blend in once fully dry


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

The 3rd Coat said:


> You can put 5 coats of flat on BIN patches, they will still flash.



I have seen this happen too. Coverstain doesn't seem to do it, just Bin. Probably because it seals so well. 

What I like to do for spotting ceilings or something is hit the spots with a spray can of Bin, then hit them again with Coverstain.


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## The 3rd Coat (Aug 17, 2013)

In my experience it happens with every stain blocking primer. Even ones that don't seal stains very well. Years ago when I did my first water damaged ceiling, I used Zinsser 123. It did seal the water stains after 2 coats, but a couple of days later I was wondering why those primed patches were showing through 3 coats of ceiling paint. I had no idea back then, so just left it, the client didn't even see it. A lot of times you can only see it if you look at the ceiling from a distance at an angle, not from straight below.
Now I always do whatever's needed to prevent spot flashing.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

My plan is to paint the entire ceiling. Just wanted to see if anyone had any experience with this. I don't want to paint the whole ceiling with coverstain, but will if I have too


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## oldccm (Jan 23, 2013)

Prime with either BIN or Coverstain. 
Sand entire ceiling
If using pure white spot prime with that
If using a tinted color prime flat white or interior primer first
Sand spot prime
Spot prime with ceiling paint if ceiling color was tinted
Paint entire ceiling


Sounds like a lot of steps but they can all be done while you're covering contents and cutting in ceiling anyway


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## The 3rd Coat (Aug 17, 2013)

journeymanPainter said:


> My plan is to paint the entire ceiling. Just wanted to see if anyone had any experience with this. I don't want to paint the whole ceiling with coverstain, but will if I have too


If you do decide to prime the whole ceiling, you can just seal the water stains first, then prime the whole ceiling with a water based stain blocker to minimize working with oil. Then use one of those 1-coat ceiling flats as topcoat. There are a few out there. If you use normal ceiling flat on top of a shiny primer, one coat will be patchy.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

The 3rd Coat said:


> If you do decide to prime the whole ceiling, you can just seal the water stains first, then prime the whole ceiling with a water based stain blocker to minimize working with oil. Then use one of those 1-coat ceiling flats as topcoat. There are a few out there. If you use normal ceiling flat on top of a shiny primer, one coat will be patchy.


Thanks. That's what I was trying to figure out. 

Much appreciated everyone!


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

aaron61 said:


> Never had that problem. Those areas will dry slower(look like lashing) but should blend in once fully dry


This is what I have always found...takes longer to dry, but once the ceiling paint over the bin is dry it does not flash.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

oldccm said:


> Prime with either BIN or Coverstain.
> Sand entire ceiling


I am trying to decide between Bin and Cover Stain for some smoke stains on a ceiling. Does Cover Stain have to be sanded? I ask because the ceiling is textured and would very hard to sand.


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## oldccm (Jan 23, 2013)

Pete the Painter said:


> I am trying to decide between Bin and Cover Stain for some smoke stains on a ceiling. Does Cover Stain have to be sanded? I ask because the ceiling is textured and would very hard to sand.



On a textured ceilings flashing should not be a problem with either product. So sanding would not be necessary 

Coverstain will cover the smoke stains provided they aren't outrageous (crispy black). Problem is Coverstain has limited smoke smell sealing abilities. If you're trying to eliminate smoke odour you will need to use BIN

Textured ceilings should be painted with interior flat oil IMO. We use Dulux Flat oil 94600 is code I believe.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

oldccm said:


> Coverstain will cover the smoke stains provided they aren't outrageous (crispy black). Problem is Coverstain has limited smoke smell sealing abilities. If you're trying to eliminate smoke odour you will need to use BIN


The stains are not that bad. At first I thought that it was just a poor paint job. Also, no smell at all.


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## The 3rd Coat (Aug 17, 2013)

Pete the Painter said:


> This is what I have always found...takes longer to dry, but once the ceiling paint over the bin is dry it does not flash.


You need to look at it from the side, towards the light. You'll see the BIN shining through the flat ceiling paint. If the ceiling paint is a bit shiny, then it's less noticeable, or not at all. Like I said, most clients will not even see it or if they do won't be bothered, and apparently many painters don't see it either, or you guys use shiny ceiling paints. Dulux ceiling paints around here are dead flat.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

The 3rd Coat said:


> You need to look at it from the side, towards the light. You'll see the BIN shining through the flat ceiling paint. If the ceiling paint is a bit shiny, then it's less noticeable, or not at all. Like I said, most clients will not even see it or if they do won't be bothered, and apparently many painters don't see it either, or you guys use shiny ceiling paints. Dulux ceiling paints around here are dead flat.




Sometimes it shows bad. One time a contractor I work with called me. His guys had painted a ceiling as part of a repair job, it was flashing like crazy through coat after coat and he couldn't figure out why. They had primed it with Kilz and a few places bled through, then they hit the bleeding areas with Bin. After three coats of ceiling paint the places rolled with Bin were still showing, probably just a few degrees of sheen but in that lighting it looked awful. 
I first noticed it when spot priming knots on exterior siding. 

Different primers have different sheen hold out characteristics. Some primers are better for spotting flat paint, and some are better for enamel.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

The 3rd Coat said:


> You need to look at it from the side, towards the light. You'll see the BIN shining through the flat ceiling paint. If the ceiling paint is a bit shiny, then it's less noticeable, or not at all. Like I said, most clients will not even see it or if they do won't be bothered, and apparently many painters don't see it either, or you guys use shiny ceiling paints. Dulux ceiling paints around here are dead flat.


I have found that there is some flashing on the first coat, but I have yet to notice it on the second. But, then again I do sand the Bin if I use it on a ceiling with flat paint. I think that this helps some with the flashing.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

journeymanPainter said:


> Here is the area in which this ceiling is located. Brand new Reno
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T989D using PaintTalk.com mobile app


Two rattle cans of bin and paint it. You may need a few coats but they dry fast.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

The 3rd Coat said:


> You need to look at it from the side, towards the light. You'll see the BIN shining through the flat ceiling paint. If the ceiling paint is a bit shiny, then it's less noticeable, or not at all. Like I said, most clients will not even see it or if they do won't be bothered, and apparently many painters don't see it either, or you guys use shiny ceiling paints. Dulux ceiling paints around here are dead flat.


I use ultra hide from dulux


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## straight edge (Sep 6, 2014)

I don't like touching up anything either. Especially with a painters eye you can always notice it. Some customers may have they eye for it and some may not. That is always the risk you take.
__________________
Straight Edge Painting 
painters in Jacksonville FL


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

Bomb can it and 2 coats. Feather it into existing. If its new there should be no prob touch in it up. Its textured, not smooth...it looks fairly forgiving from what I can see...

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## Drywall finisher (Aug 26, 2014)

I didnt read any of the replies, i'm lazy like that. But here is my help. 
Take a spronge and get rite up on that thing. All around hte edges and about a foot out from the patch (thats providing the lid is all textured) You do not nessasarily have to nock down all the tits but sand them to smooth tits. Use a 1/2 nap and about 3.5 pans of water in ur mud. Roll out to the edge of the patch. When you stomp go as this *stomp roll, stomp non rolled* bring your mud to the old with the stomper. Helps to make it a bit heavy. The main trick is in the sand. You can not get away with a sanding poll. You need to get up close and personal with it. Otherwise you will c it. Oh yeah, i just kilz it after I sand. oil base preferably but i know its obsolete. You shoudl only need to do the patch.


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## Drywall finisher (Aug 26, 2014)

Yeah ok i read a few. Here is exactly how iI would attack that.
1. sand area around the patch as well as the patch
2. kilz the water dmg
3. texture.
4 if needed pain the whole thing.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

Cool story bro.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

Drywall finisher said:


> I didnt read any of the replies, i'm lazy like that. But here is my help.
> Take a spronge and get rite up on that thing. All around hte edges and about a foot out from the patch (thats providing the lid is all textured) You do not nessasarily have to nock down all the tits but sand them to smooth tits. Use a 1/2 nap and about 3.5 pans of water in ur mud. Roll out to the edge of the patch. When you stomp go as this *stomp roll, stomp non rolled* bring your mud to the old with the stomper. Helps to make it a bit heavy. The main trick is in the sand. You can not get away with a sanding poll. You need to get up close and personal with it. Otherwise you will c it. Oh yeah, i just kilz it after I sand. oil base preferably but i know its obsolete. You shoudl only need to do the patch.


Did you even look at the pictures? It's a flat ceiling, no texture, and they don't want texture


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## fortunerestoration (Mar 6, 2014)

Most strains eventually bleed back, therefore painting over strains is a process only to camouflage it – it’s not a permanent solution. Proper surface preparation with a primer blocks bleeding, therefore I would suggest you paint the whole ceiling for spotless result.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Rattle can of upshot oil primer. Paint the area with top coat. Repaint whole ceiling. 

Repaint 101


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

Paradigmzz said:


> Rattle can of upshot oil primer. Paint the area with top coat. Repaint whole ceiling.
> 
> Repaint 101


That's what we're gonna do. Sand, spot prime with the ceiling paint, prime with the upshot primer, then paint the whole ceiling


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

journeymanPainter said:


> That's what we're gonna do. Sand, spot prime with the ceiling paint, prime with the upshot primer, then paint the whole ceiling


Prime with the oil primer first. Got to lock the stain.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

journeymanPainter said:


> That's what we're gonna do. Sand, spot prime with the ceiling paint, prime with the upshot primer, then paint the whole ceiling


Must say been quite a journey hey?


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

I would never use spray cans on an area that large.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

I never even looked close at the pic. The tape line popped and they pulled the tape and retaped and floated it. No oil primer necessary unless you are seeing bleed through. Paint that haus.

My golden rule is touch ups on ceilings dont work. Unless you have the previous paint and its relitively recent. It may work for 23 out of 24 hours but there is always that certain light at a certain time of day that "tells" on you. I paint the whole deal and mitigate the call back factor. 

As per using a rattle can on a big area, .... it aint that big. And its way quicker. Cheaper too vs. throwing a roller away. That and you minimize extra unwanted stipple.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

Paradigmzz said:


> I never even looked close at the pic. The tape line popped and they pulled the tape and retaped and floated it. No oil primer necessary unless you are seeing bleed through. Paint that haus.
> 
> My golden rule is touch ups on ceilings dont work. Unless you have the previous paint and its relitively recent. It may work for 23 out of 24 hours but there is always that certain light at a certain time of day that "tells" on you. I paint the whole deal and mitigate the call back factor.
> 
> *As per using a rattle can on a big area, .... it aint that big. And its way quicker. Cheaper too vs. throwing a roller away. That and you minimize extra unwanted stipple*.


For me, I would roll on oil primer. It looks to me like 10 sq. ft. I consider that a lot of surface for a spray can. Plus the fact that the cans would stink out the house, with over spray floating throughout the room. Then there are the health risks.
As for the roller, the customer would be paying for that and I would use a 1/4 inch nap to minimize stipple. 

If spray cans work for you, carry on.


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