# Pro-Mar 200 Zero



## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

After reading all of TJs posts on the new Sherwin-Williams ProMar 200 Zero, I decided yo try some and have now been using it the last few months. Im quite pleased with the results. Great product. Dries to a smooth even finish, covers very well and the price . Thanks TJ


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

Me too, and I'm a SW hater. Stuff covers great.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Great stuff for a great price, it's hard to beat.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Great stuff for a great price, it's hard to beat.


Yep


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

ProWallGuy said:


> Me too, and I'm a SW hater. Stuff covers great.


It really does cover very well


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## oldpaintdoc (Apr 11, 2010)

Been my go to paint for awhile now. Have been using more of the low sheen lately. Customers like the rich looking finish.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Good deal, glad it works for you. :thumbsup: I've been more of a BM guy myself but I have only good things to say about this product.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Performs and hides way better than their straight up 200 does!


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

Agreed, Very good product, but since I don't buy much from them my price as of right now is around $35.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Has anyone had hiding issues with the semi? Maybe it was just the color I used, I've been using super paint for semi since.


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

we use signuture select semi gloss left over from duron, love the stuff.

promar 2oo is good but man their eggshell is shiney,


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Zero dulls our after a week or two. It's in my whole house now. It is the only one I use on residential and commercial. Unless an architect specs otherwise. 


Edgar, pm me if you want. You can ride on my account, I am at 24 and some change for eggshell singles. Us texas boys got to stick together


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## valuepro (Mar 21, 2010)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Has anyone had hiding issues with the semi? Maybe it was just the color I used, I've been using super paint for semi since.


Coverage is good but I have had some colour problems, but obvious ones, like light pink over blue or white over yellow. For those I will use SW Superpaint.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

The photos I posted were semi gloss. Covered fine. Ive mostly been using the eggshell.


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## painter1986 (Mar 19, 2012)

Love the stuff, and so do my clients. I used the 400 just the other day, had to do 3 coats. I was kicking myself cause I probably could have just done 2 coats with the 200. Then I wouldn't have needed to go buy an extra gallon either. Learn something new every day.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Woodland said:


> The photos I posted were semi gloss. Covered fine. Ive mostly been using the eggshell.


It was an off white going over white trim and two coats looked a little iffy. I'm going to give it another shot on a job I have coming up at the end of the week. It'll actually be my last job in the northeast. Maybe the paint will cover better down south.


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## painter1986 (Mar 19, 2012)

Good luck down south man.


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## paintpimp (Jun 29, 2007)

How has touch up been for you guys on it?


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

paintpimp said:


> How has touch up been for you guys on it?


"you missed a spot":no:


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## Delta Painting (Apr 27, 2010)

I'll have to give some a try, Thanks for the pics and heads up woodland.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Rbriggs82 said:


> It was an off white going over white trim and two coats looked a little iffy. I'm going to give it another shot on a job I have coming up at the end of the week. It'll actually be my last job in the northeast. Maybe the paint will cover better down south.


 Hopefully you both don't go south!


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

We've had some really good luck with touchup. Have used a bunch of it, works well. Today we ran some and it seemed really draggy, added some water and flowed out fine but wondered if the new colorants had changed it somewhat.?


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Damon T said:


> We've had some really good luck with touchup. Have used a bunch of it, works well. Today we ran some and it seemed really draggy, added some water and flowed out fine but wondered if the new colorants had changed it somewhat.?


That's good to know it touches up well. I haven't had to touch anything up yet with it. I used it today and didn't have any dragging issues. Maybe you got a weird batch.


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## bodean614 (May 31, 2011)

Reading thru these post I can't believe some are paying $20 or more for this product. I wouldn't be able to land the jobs if I had to pay that much for the paint. We do buy a lot if paint but we are constantly beating our suppliers up for better pricing.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

bodean614 said:


> Reading thru these post I can't believe some are paying $20 or more for this product. I wouldn't be able to land the jobs if I had to pay that much for the paint. We do buy a lot if paint but we are constantly beating our suppliers up for better pricing.


Do they beat you back?

I don't play that game with customers. They try that and I show them the door 

Sent from my Android, which is still better than the iPhone 6


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

What paint are you using for less than $20?


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## bodean614 (May 31, 2011)

I use promar 200 and Ppg speed hide. And get both for under $20.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Rbriggs82 said:


> What paint are you using for less than $20?


Flat finish....... Cheap, also old formulations. I don't believe 200 zero is under $20. At least I don't know anyone paying under that. I suppose its possible, but you'd have to be a pretty big shooter.

Sent from my Android, which is still better than the iPhone 6


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## bodean614 (May 31, 2011)

I pay less than 15 for semigloss and even less for egg and flat. Plus promar 200 meets all MPI standards for hospitals and such.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

bodean614 said:


> I pay less than 15 for semigloss and even less for egg and flat. Plus promar 200 meets all MPI standards for hospitals and such.


Wow, here I thought I was getting a good price at $23 for eggshell.


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## bodean614 (May 31, 2011)

And it is promar 200 zero. We are not that big of company either.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

bodean614 said:


> I pay less than 15 for semigloss and even less for egg and flat. Plus promar 200 meets all MPI standards for hospitals and such.


Less than $15 for semi? I have to throw the BS card.

Not trying to start a who's schtick is bigger competition, because honestly I don't care. Being truthful is much more helpful to members.

Sent from my Android, which is still better than the iPhone 6


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## bodean614 (May 31, 2011)

No BS. Have no reason to not be honest. I'm telling you that's how we land work. Labor is what it is. Got to get material cost down to be competitive.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

If thats the case your getting it cheaper than sw is paying for it.rep showed and told me they give 20.00 for it.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

bodean614 said:


> I pay less than 15 for semigloss and even less for egg and flat. Plus promar 200 meets all MPI standards for hospitals and such.





bodean614 said:


> And it is promar 200 zero. We are not that big of company either.


You ain't got to lie to kick it bro. I'm below list at 24. And I do use a whole lotta paint. Got a receipt you want to post? I'm not below hitting up your local rep and seeing what his best price is on 200 zero. Put up or shut up.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

bodean614 said:


> No BS. Have no reason to not be honest. I'm telling you that's how we land work. Labor is what it is. Got to get material cost down to be competitive.


If you are kicking the cheapest numbers, i doubt you are spec'ing 200 zero.


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## dwbrooks (Oct 23, 2008)

For ProMar 200 Zero VOC, We pay $18-Flat $19 for eggshell $20-Semi. If you really want to see a receipt, I can post one.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

That's about my price for 200. How much volume you use a year in 200 zero.


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## dwbrooks (Oct 23, 2008)

Not a huge volume but I have a pretty good relationship with my rep and squeezed him on the price of the Zero VOC. I would say 4-5k year in 200 Zero.


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## bodean614 (May 31, 2011)

Well I wasn't trying to impress anyone. Was just saying if I paid those prices I wouldn't be able to get the work. Don't have to prove anything and don't really care what you all believe or not. But I know what I pay.


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## bodean614 (May 31, 2011)

And we spend 250k on paint a year.


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## dwbrooks (Oct 23, 2008)

I know comparable accounts to yours in my area that are getting it for around the same price. With a high volume account and a good relationship/negotiating there is plenty they are willing to do for you.


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## bodean614 (May 31, 2011)

Brooks I pm you for email addy. To send info


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

dwbrooks said:


> Not a huge volume but I have a pretty good relationship with my rep and squeezed him on the price of the Zero VOC. I would say 4-5k year in 200 Zero.


Thanks. That is way cheaper than I would have ever expected and I easily used 3-5 times as much of it last year.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

bodean614 said:


> And we spend 250k on paint a year.


Now that makes sense. I'm tired and cranky tonight. Sorry for being a dick. I'm not surprised when the volume is that high.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

bodean614 said:


> And we spend 250k on paint a year.


Typical res repaint company spends 12% of gross sales on paint. Commercial maybe more. at $250K in paint I'm guessing you gross $2 million per year? That's not what I would call a small company. I don't care either way, but you mentioned in this thread your "not that big of a company". I'd guess $2 Mil is the upper end of painting companies in any given region. Not including the big as* commercial and industrial guys.


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## bodean614 (May 31, 2011)

And 4 years ago I started a freelance estimating service and started bidding for this company that only did 1-2 commercial jobs a year and about 300k a year in new residential. He wanted to get out of residential and really had no clue on commercial. I developed a spreadsheet and after 1 yr of chasing the commercial he was able to close the residential end down and keep 15-20 guys busy yr round and now doing 1.5 a yr. and trying to grow more. I now have 3-4 regular clients I bid work for on regular basis.


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

bodean614 said:


> And 4 years ago I started a freelance estimating service and started bidding for this company that only did 1-2 commercial jobs a year and about 300k a year in new residential. He wanted to get out of residential and really had no clue on commercial. I developed a spreadsheet and after 1 yr of chasing the commercial he was able to close the residential end down and keep 15-20 guys busy yr round and now doing 1.5 a yr. and trying to grow more. I now have 3-4 regular clients I bid work for on regular basis.


Dude, quit spamming your estimating service. You want to sell it here, buy an ad already.


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## bodean614 (May 31, 2011)

Not spamming. I have learned a lot from this site. 

I have enough work right now. And not trying to sell anything. And if I can help people out with some of my learning. That's what I'm here for.


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## Splitter (Sep 29, 2012)

It's our 'go to product'.Covers good, and O-VOC a must.Just use the recommended primers for deeper colors.We just had a school where they wanted to add bold deep colors over traditional interior off white walls.We sanded and deglossed,applied the recommended primers plus two coats and it's rock solid on the walls.Recent touch up blends in good,not sure if after 1 year and a lot of students latter if it will touch up or if we'll have to square off as we often do.Time will tell...


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

I used the semi yesterday and it covered with no problem. My first time out with it must have been a fluke.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

dwbrooks said:


> I know comparable accounts to yours in my area that are getting it for around the same price. With a high volume account and a good relationship/negotiating there is plenty they are willing to do for you.


I spoke with my rep the next day after the price point banter. You need to break a few hundred thousand to dip below the twenty mark on 200 zero. District managers approval, over a reps head. Local store cost is 20. Have a new hospital going up down the road from me. It is spec'ed 200 zero VOC. They are picking it up at 9 a gallon. 11 dollars below the stores cost. This company also does more than 5 million nationally. The store takes a loss in revenue bit gets higher total volume sales.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Paradigmzz said:


> . The store takes a loss in revenue bit gets higher total volume sales.


Yep, and I know for a fact that when PPG does this same thing it can screw a manager out of a bonus. I'm sure it can at SW too. Basically the stores overall profit margin takes a hit on these. If it drops too much, no bonus. 


Yes, I knew I smelled BS on that price post. Nice work Para.

Sent from my Android, which is still better than the iPhone 6


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## jimmyoverspray (Feb 3, 2012)

This paint is a pain in the a$$ price is good but sheen levels are inconsistent. I had a meeting with SW rep and they did nothing about it. My guys hate it Quali-kote is a lot better and cheaper then this crap.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

jimmyoverspray said:


> This paint is a pain in the a$$ price is good but sheen levels are inconsistent. I had a meeting with SW rep and they did nothing about it. My guys hate it Quali-kote is a lot better and cheaper then this crap.


I don't believe you. As in, I have never had a problem with sheen consistency and this thread had me thinking about pricing. After researching, I realized we have applied over 1200 gallons of it in this last year.


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## bodean614 (May 31, 2011)

We just painted a student housing project that used about 6000 gallons of promar and all went well touched up beautifully. No problems with sheen issues.


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## optimal (Feb 5, 2010)

Best bang for the buck. Eggshell rules the walls!


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## dwbrooks (Oct 23, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> Yep, and I know for a fact that when PPG does this same thing it can screw a manager out of a bonus. I'm sure it can at SW too. Basically the stores overall profit margin takes a hit on these. If it drops too much, no bonus.
> 
> 
> Yes, I knew I smelled BS on that price post. Nice work Para.
> ...


We do about $50k a year in paint and we are below $20 a gal. 

You smell BS?? I'll post a receipt showing $18 a gal for flat. What motivation do I have to lie about paint prices? Give me a break.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

dwbrooks said:


> We do about $50k a year and we are below $20 a gal.
> 
> You smell BS. I'll post a receipt.


District managers approval? I spend well above that but was told I would need to produce a whole lot more volume to negate the negative loss at local store. I don't doubt you, a receipt would be cool...


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## dwbrooks (Oct 23, 2008)

Paradigmzz said:


> I spoke with my rep the next day after the price point banter. You need to break a few hundred thousand to dip below the twenty mark on 200 zero. District managers approval, over a reps head. Local store cost is 20. Have a new hospital going up down the road from me. It is spec'ed 200 zero VOC. They are picking it up at 9 a gallon. 11 dollars below the stores cost. This company also does more than 5 million nationally. The store takes a loss in revenue bit gets higher total volume sales.


Here you go- $18.00 a gallon + 92 cents tax


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## jimmyoverspray (Feb 3, 2012)

Paradigmzz said:


> I don't believe you. As in, I have never had a problem with sheen consistency and this thread had me thinking about pricing. After researching, I realized we have applied over 1200 gallons of it in this last year.


I don't need to prove anything to you just my experience with this product. If it works for you great!


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

jimmyoverspray said:


> I don't need to prove anything to you just my experience with this product. If it works for you great!


right on boss. you aint got a thing to prove. qualikote is awesomo.


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## cdaniels (Oct 20, 2012)

I must be sort of a big shot up at the local Lowes...I get Olympic fast-hide for around $10 a gallon.And they give me free paddles.:whistling2:


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Hey Mike, you been putting any of this on lately?


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## ttd (Sep 30, 2010)

Like it a lot, but agree with earlier comment that the eggshell is a little "shiny." Other than that we use flat and eggshell regularly.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

cdaniels said:


> I must be sort of a big shot up at the local Lowes...I get Olympic fast-hide for around $10 a gallon.And they give me free paddles.:whistling2:


 You could use a paddling for using that!


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

ttd said:


> Like it a lot, but agree with earlier comment that the eggshell is a little "shiny." Other than that we use flat and eggshell regularly.


You might wanna try the low sheen. I like it a lot, but not all paint stores keep it in stock.


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## jbhapp101 (Mar 20, 2013)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> Agreed, Very good product, but since I don't buy much from them my price as of right now is around $35.


Ouch! I get that for $23. Talk to your rep. I pay less for Super Paint and only $3 more for Regal.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

jbhapp101 said:


> Ouch! I get that for $23. Talk to your rep. I pay less for Super Paint and only $3 more for Regal.


My SW rep. is useless, Not a big fan of SW paints :thumbsup:


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## R2P (Feb 17, 2013)

jbhapp101 said:


> Ouch! I get that for $23. Talk to your rep. I pay less for Super Paint and only $3 more for Regal.


Good to know your prices are the same as mine. $23 and a dollar more for semi gloss.


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## Scannell Painting (Sep 25, 2010)

23 here also & a great product. We have been using it on a project for 4 months now with light & deep colors, very consistent:thumbsup:


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## wills fresh coat (Nov 17, 2011)

You can get that a lot cheaper
Flat $10.99
Egg buck more
Semi buck more
And I really don't buy a lot of it. Ppg is my go to paint


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Has anyone had hiding issues with the semi? Maybe it was just the color I used, I've been using super paint for semi since.


 No I have no problem hiding it!


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## PurdyXL (Mar 21, 2013)

Paradigmzz said:


> I spoke with my rep the next day after the price point banter. You need to break a few hundred thousand to dip below the twenty mark on 200 zero. District managers approval, over a reps head. Local store cost is 20. Have a new hospital going up down the road from me. It is spec'ed 200 zero VOC. They are picking it up at 9 a gallon. 11 dollars below the stores cost. This company also does more than 5 million nationally. The store takes a loss in revenue bit gets higher total volume sales.


 
Hit the nail right on the head.


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## wills fresh coat (Nov 17, 2011)

PurdyXL said:


> Hit the nail right on the head.


False


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

wills fresh coat said:


> False


which part is false? are you talking 10. 99 for 200 zero? 

What is your average paint material expendeture across the board (all paint stores) ? What is your market btw? I believe you for what its worth, just trying to understand why they want your business that bad to reduce profits to next to nothing.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Paradigmzz said:


> which part is false? are you talking 10. 99 for 200 zero?
> 
> What is your average paint material expendeture across the board (all paint stores) ? What is your market btw? I believe you for what its worth, just trying to understand why they want your business that bad to reduce profits to next to nothing.


Because he's part of a National Franchise with National Account pricing. Same like Certa Pro. I don't know numbers, but when you're talking "national accounts", its most likely in the millions.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

NCPaint1 said:


> Because he's part of a National Franchise with National Account pricing. Same like Certa Pro. I don't know numbers, but when you're talking "national accounts", its most likely in the millions.


ahh, is Fresh Coat a franchise? 

I lack the ball busting ability and dehumanizing characteristc to run subs at slave wages. I would not make a good franchise owner. (No offense directed at those who can. Get paid fellas! )


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Paradigmzz said:


> ahh, is Fresh Coat a franchise?
> 
> I lack the ball busting ability and dehumanizing characteristc to run subs at slave wages. I would not make a good franchise owner. (No offense directed at those who can. Get paid fellas! )


Not all of them do. There is a very good Certa outfit around my area. He works with a crew, and has subs too. All top notch guys.


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## wills fresh coat (Nov 17, 2011)

NCPaint1 said:


> Because he's part of a National Franchise with National Account pricing. Same like Certa Pro. I don't know numbers, but when you're talking "national accounts", its most likely in the millions.


I've had my co. name since the late 90s, I think fresh coat started much later


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## wills fresh coat (Nov 17, 2011)

Paradigmzz said:


> which part is false? are you talking 10. 99 for 200 zero?
> 
> What is your average paint material expendeture across the board (all paint stores) ? What is your market btw? I believe you for what its worth, just trying to understand why they want your business that bad to reduce profits to next to nothing.


That's true I get 200 zero flat for $10.99, eggshell for $11.99 and semi for $12.99. My main paint is Ppg and that's cheaper then that (I mostly use speed hide btw)

I don't really want to go into how much I buy or anything like that but please don't fell sorry for sw they are doing just fine. Do you really believe that bs line when your sw rep or store manager tells you "I can't sell it to you for that its below my cost"? That is the biggest load of bs I've ever heard. They don't even know what cost is, they are being lied to just like you and I are. They get handed a paper with a bunch of numbers on it and are told "this is our cost". Lol
Trust me when I tell you for every gallon of paint they sell to me cheap they are selling hundreds more of the same exact paint 2x 3x 4x and even 5x the price of the one they sold me. 
If people are happy paying those prices, good for you, I'd rather put that extra money in my pocket or pass it along to my customer


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## PaintinNC (Dec 20, 2009)

Couple of things.....SW isn't "taking a loss" at the store level. It probably costs SW about 5 or 6 bucks to manufacture that gallon. Also ask the store manager about "the pot of gold" kickback if they complain about it being below cost. PPG Speedhide zero line could be done for under 20 a gallon without moving heaven and earth. My opinion is that no gallon of commercial paint has to be more than 25 a gallon if you have volume, SW is just sticking it to you otherwise.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

I love how people outside of manufacturing can guess at product costs. 

I want my bedroom walls painted for $32. It can't possibly cost a PC more than this to do it. 1 gallon of flat at $11 and an hour of labor. I won't pay a PC more than that. Anyone who charges more is ripping you off.


^^^^^^^^
Get it? That's what you guys sound like....what if your customers "guessed" at your costs and beat you to the ground?


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## wills fresh coat (Nov 17, 2011)

NCPaint1 said:


> I love how people outside of manufacturing can guess at product costs.
> 
> I want my bedroom walls painted for $32. It can't possibly cost a PC more than this to do it. 1 gallon of flat at $11 and an hour of labor. I won't pay a PC more than that. Anyone who charges more is ripping you off.
> 
> ...


I don't care what you think I sound like. It's not my job to worry about the paint stores profit , it's my job to worry about mine

Your the one that told me there was no way I was getting speed hide for $9.99 a gallon cause your cost were higher as a Ppg store owner. Maybe you should become a painter, then you can buy it cheaper


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## wills fresh coat (Nov 17, 2011)

PaintinNC said:


> Couple of things.....SW isn't "taking a loss" at the store level. It probably costs SW about 5 or 6 bucks to manufacture that gallon. Also ask the store manager about "the pot of gold" kickback if they complain about it being below cost. PPG Speedhide zero line could be done for under 20 a gallon without moving heaven and earth. My opinion is that no gallon of commercial paint has to be more than 25 a gallon if you have volume, SW is just sticking it to you otherwise.


They probably make it for less then that

No gallon of interior paint should be over $10


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## kingsebi (Jan 27, 2009)

I buy almost all my paint at Ben Moore and I pay $17.xx for 200 0 voc flat. Just sayin.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

wills fresh coat said:


> They probably make it for less then that
> 
> No gallon of interior paint should be over $10


Again...unsubstantiated nonsense.

A gallon of gas shouldn't cost over .72¢/gal. Yet it does.

I think there's a miscommunication here. Store cost, and manufacturing costs are completely different. I think that's where we're missing. Yes, stores sell below "their" costs. By the time a gallon has been made, poured, labeled, boxed and shipped increases the overall "costs". That being said, what the direct cost to the manufacturer is, I haven't a clue.


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## PaintinNC (Dec 20, 2009)

Actually, I worked for SW for over a decade, and I am well aware of their "cost" structure. How do you think SW posts record profits on a bunch of commercial paint (and dont play the retail card, its less than 5% of SWs customer make up). In a lot of cases the bucket and the label cost almost as much as whats in the bucket. SW has a true cost, a Divisional cost (first mark up), a district mark up (second mark up), and the store cost (biggest mark up).....So when your SW store manager tells you what something costs he has no idea.....


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## A+HomeWork (Dec 10, 2010)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> My SW rep. is useless, Not a big fan of SW paints :thumbsup:


Because of the rep? Or problems with the paint. My rep is why I like SW so much. 

I have used pm200 for years. It used to be packaged in Classic99 on the retail side. I wonder if it has any other labeling now.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

wills fresh coat said:


> That's true I get 200 zero flat for $10.99, eggshell for $11.99 and semi for $12.99. My main paint is Ppg and that's cheaper then that (I mostly use speed hide btw)
> 
> I don't really want to go into how much I buy or anything like that but please don't fell sorry for sw they are doing just fine. Do you really believe that bs line when your sw rep or store manager tells you "I can't sell it to you for that its below my cost"? That is the biggest load of bs I've ever heard. They don't even know what cost is, they are being lied to just like you and I are. They get handed a paper with a bunch of numbers on it and are told "this is our cost". Lol
> Trust me when I tell you for every gallon of paint they sell to me cheap they are selling hundreds more of the same exact paint 2x 3x 4x and even 5x the price of the one they sold me.
> If people are happy paying those prices, good for you, I'd rather put that extra money in my pocket or pass it along to my customer


Well stated. Just told my rep no more sw and my 200 zero egg dropped 6$ per gallon. We no longer wish to do business with them. It's not a customer service issue, thats always good.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> I love how people outside of manufacturing can guess at product costs.
> 
> I want my bedroom walls painted for $32. It can't possibly cost a PC more than this to do it. 1 gallon of flat at $11 and an hour of labor. I won't pay a PC more than that. Anyone who charges more is ripping you off.
> 
> ...


I nominate this your best post out of the 4800 you have. :thumbup:


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Yes but manufacturing a product from assembled ingredients and then selling it is somewhat different than labor rates for hourly production.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Zoomer said:


> Yes but manufacturing a product from assembled ingredients and then selling it is somewhat different than labor rates for hourly production.


Really? I don't think so. Cost + overhead +profit=price


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## Harmony Haus (Mar 7, 2013)

I love the 200 zero voc! Awesome price, excellent coverage and leveling. The consistency is right up my alley. It's the only thing I use for ceilings.


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## paintpimp (Jun 29, 2007)

Kudos to ncpaint. Couldnt have said it better. Sometimes paint is sold at ridiculous pricing but does not help business. Sw managers and reps assigned to customers buying at some the prices listed personally lose money. Its true. And then to hear they dont even like buying from them. they lose money to sell you paint and thats not good enough? Real nice.


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## paintpimp (Jun 29, 2007)

PaintinNC said:


> Actually, I worked for SW for over a decade, and I am well aware of their "cost" structure. How do you think SW posts record profits on a bunch of commercial paint (and dont play the retail card, its less than 5% of SWs customer make up). In a lot of cases the bucket and the label cost almost as much as whats in the bucket. SW has a true cost, a Divisional cost (first mark up), a district mark up (second mark up), and the store cost (biggest mark up).....So when your SW store manager tells you what something costs he has no idea.....


You may have worked there for a decade but that doesnt mean you know squat. there is a true cost to the store. once you drop below the cost it Costs at least 3 people money personally. stating what paint should be sold at is the same as me saying what you can afford to charge for full days work per employee.


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## wills fresh coat (Nov 17, 2011)

paintpimp said:


> You may have worked there for a decade but that doesnt mean you know squat. there is a true cost to the store. once you drop below the cost it Costs at least 3 people money personally. stating what paint should be sold at is the same as me saying what you can afford to charge for full days work per employee.


Pp no disrespect but I don't think you have a clue. 
If a customer ask me to do something and I can do it I will, if I can't I won't 
If I ask a paint co. to sell me paint a a certain number and they do it, it must be because they can......right?


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## paintpimp (Jun 29, 2007)

wills fresh coat said:


> Pp no disrespect but I don't think you have a clue.
> If a customer ask me to do something and I can do it I will, if I can't I won't
> If I ask a paint co. to sell me paint a a certain number and they do it, it must be because they can......right?


No offense taken. I do have a clue. Retail is different. Yes you can sell items below true cost, but its to gain: market share, hurt competition, sell whole job, sell epoxies and other lines, gain other higher margin sundries, product placements at jobsite, exposure. Grocery stores sell items below cost to get you in to buy more.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

paintpimp said:


> No offense taken. I do have a clue. Retail is different. Yes you can sell items below true cost, but its to gain: market share, hurt competition, sell whole job, sell epoxies and other lines, gain other higher margin sundries, product placements at jobsite, exposure. Grocery stores sell items below cost to get you in to buy more.


Exactly right.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Will, are you part of a franchise, do you do price negotiations personally?


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

wills fresh coat said:


> If a customer ask me to do something and I can do it I will, if I can't I won't
> If I ask a paint co. to sell me paint a a certain number and they do it, it must be because they can......right?


You could compare it to a large revolving repaint contract, like a condo complex. You are doing it cheap, not making anything really, but its a place to keep a crew busy. Then you pull guys from there when needed. It also helps you with your volume purchases. All the material for the job counts towards your gross yearly numbers helping reduce your overall price costs.


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## PaintinNC (Dec 20, 2009)

PP and NC, I would certainly argue that I have a clue. I wasnt referring to pricing strategy or why paint is sold "under cost". I have supplied many apartment builds that werent profitable but you get the maint. paint on it for years and years at a very good PC. All I was commenting about was the "cost" structure at SW and how they keep most of their people in the dark about pricing. Things are seldom sold under true cost, and if someone tells you that they are willing to sell you something in this manner you should question the intelligence of the person your doing business with and the quality of the deal your getting...........


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## paintpimp (Jun 29, 2007)

PaintinNC said:


> All I was commenting about was the "cost" structure at SW and how they keep most of their people in the dark about pricing. Things are seldom sold under true cost, and if someone tells you that they are willing to sell you something in this manner you should question the intelligence of the person your doing business with and the quality of the deal your getting...........


Isnt that the same thing you just said? You sell things at a loss to gain future and more profitable products.


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## wills fresh coat (Nov 17, 2011)

PaintinNC said:


> PP and NC, I would certainly argue that I have a clue. I wasnt referring to pricing strategy or why paint is sold "under cost". I have supplied many apartment builds that werent profitable but you get the maint. paint on it for years and years at a very good PC. All I was commenting about was the "cost" structure at SW and how they keep most of their people in the dark about pricing. Things are seldom sold under true cost, and if someone tells you that they are willing to sell you something in this manner you should question the intelligence of the person your doing business with and the quality of the deal your getting...........


Your correct but I would take out the word "seldom" and change it to "never".


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## PaintinNC (Dec 20, 2009)

paintpimp said:


> Isnt that the same thing you just said? You sell things at a loss to gain future and more profitable products.


No, it wasn't....That was my first post on strategy. What something costs, and what you sell it for are two different subjects.


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## Scannell Painting (Sep 25, 2010)

wills fresh coat said:


> That's true I get 200 zero flat for $10.99, eggshell for $11.99 and semi for $12.99. My main paint is Ppg and that's cheaper then that (I mostly use speed hide btw)
> 
> Now that is some pricing :thumbsup: if you can get insurance & taxes at bargain rates you'll be retiring very early


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## DK Remodeling (Mar 22, 2013)

wills fresh coat said:


> You can get that a lot cheaper
> Flat $10.99
> Egg buck more
> Semi buck more
> And I really don't buy a lot of it. Ppg is my go to paint


Wow sir, that is some great pricing. How much do you buy from them every year?


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## loaded brush (Dec 27, 2007)

In regards to this original post, used it for a year when it first came out on residential work, big mistake, yes covers descent most times but if your touching up a color made in anything but extra white base, forget it. Pastels are the most forgiving when it comes to touching up. And it has no washability to it. Whether its light or dark colors, when trying to wash a spot, there's always a smear or smudge mark that will not disappear no matter how well its rinsed. And burnishes with the slightest of effort. Might be okay for commercial or industrial painting where they don't care about washing walls or touch ups blending ,but not for residential where the HO wants durability.You get what you pay for.


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## DK Remodeling (Mar 22, 2013)

I personally never seen anyone wash their walls. Just saying


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

This is another low-grade paint by the all mighty SW. Behr is superior to this over priced junk! $33 per gallon? please! Yes, I know we get a painter discount... Thanks SW!!!


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## Rick the painter (Mar 30, 2009)

Tried the 200 today on ceilings.Liked it,nice flow,did not have to STOP and add water,wasnt cake mix.


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

Rick the painter said:


> Tried the 200 today on ceilings.Liked it,nice flow,did not have to STOP and add water,wasnt cake mix.


Side-by-side... Same house (same job)...

ProMar 200 on ceiling - 2 coat coverage.
Behr Ceiling paint - 1 coat coverage

Tried, tested and proven...


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

MuraCoat said:


> Side-by-side... Same house (same job)...
> 
> ProMar 200 on ceiling - 2 coat coverage.
> Behr Ceiling paint - 1 coat coverage
> ...


Ill get the next behr thread started.


My girlfriend is hotter than your girlfriends girlfriend.


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

Paradigmzz said:


> Ill get the next behr thread started.
> 
> 
> *My girlfriend is hotter than your girlfriends girlfriend.[/*QUOTE]
> ...


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## AztecPainting (Jan 28, 2010)

MuraCoat said:


> Paradigmzz said:
> 
> 
> > Ill get the next behr thread started.
> ...


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## Rick the painter (Mar 30, 2009)

Id rather roll a ceiling twice than hike into a monster box store every day!


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## matt19422 (Oct 2, 2009)

I had a customer that was getting there property ready for sale & wanted to use behr ceiling paint for a few ceilings..... The ceiling paint is way too thick & creates a bubbly stipple when it dries. I would never recommend this paint to anyone.


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## fearthespur89 (Jan 18, 2013)

Hate to talk about pricing again. But lets have at it:thumbsup: At our SW store we can only see our Store cost. Now if we sell a product below that cost then we as a store take the hit and it come out of our bottom line. SW owns the manufacturing/distribution/and stores....thus what we see is not SW true cost but what the store(us) has to pay SW to get it here. Hope that makes sense.


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## fearthespur89 (Jan 18, 2013)

wills fresh coat said:


> That's true I get 200 zero flat for $10.99, eggshell for $11.99 and semi for $12.99. My main paint is Ppg and that's cheaper then that (I mostly use speed hide btw)
> 
> I don't really want to go into how much I buy or anything like that but please don't fell sorry for sw they are doing just fine. Do you really believe that bs line when your sw rep or store manager tells you "I can't sell it to you for that its below my cost"? That is the biggest load of bs I've ever heard. They don't even know what cost is, they are being lied to just like you and I are. They get handed a paper with a bunch of numbers on it and are told "this is our cost". Lol
> Trust me when I tell you for every gallon of paint they sell to me cheap they are selling hundreds more of the same exact paint 2x 3x 4x and even 5x the price of the one they sold me.
> If people are happy paying those prices, good for you, I'd rather put that extra money in my pocket or pass it along to my customer


We look up cost on our computer. Not a piece of paper. BTW you might of got it for that cost on one job but that is only for that job and you will not have that priced lock.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

matt19422 said:


> I had a customer that was getting there property ready for sale & wanted to use behr ceiling paint for a few ceilings..... The ceiling paint is way too thick & creates a bubbly stipple when it dries. I would never recommend this paint to anyone.


 use a 3/8 nap.Behrs like long naps.


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## matt19422 (Oct 2, 2009)

mudbone said:


> use a 3/8 nap.Behrs like long naps.



Sorry mudbone, if I were to use a 3/8 to roll 18ft high ceilings or long stretches I would be out of business. :no:


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

I can't see anyone getting promar 200 zero voc for under $15 unless you are a major company buying massive quantities per year. Especially not a 1 or 2 man show.
When I started using it mid last year, my introductory price was $23.99, and its since gone up to $29.99. But, I don't buy more than 100 gallons a year, and I really don't care what it costs, I'm not paying for it anyways.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

It is kind of assumed that on large commercial projects with special pricing sw can give pretty cheap prices for promar stuff. Everyday prices are not the same deal though.


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## wills fresh coat (Nov 17, 2011)

aaron61 said:


> i will be printing that receipt and taking it to my rep first thing tomorrow


That's funny you would do that, I thought all you guys were happy overpaying for paint cause you were just passing it on to your customers.......wow how things change


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Again, how much volume of paint do you do with SW?


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

wills fresh coat said:


> That's funny you would do that, I thought all you guys were happy overpaying for paint cause you were just passing it on to your customers.......wow how things change


I've never subscribed to that theory. It makes sence to me that if I am providing a price to a customer on a job that requires 100 gallons and I am getting the paint $10 cheaper a gallon my price will be $1,000 dollars cheaper than Jimmy the painter.
Who do you think will get that job?


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## wills fresh coat (Nov 17, 2011)

aaron61 said:


> I've never subscribed to that theory. It makes sence to me that if I am providing a price to a customer on a job that requires 100 gallons and I am getting the paint $10 cheaper a gallon my price will be $1,000 dollars cheaper than Jimmy the painter.
> Who do you think will get that job?


That's what I've been trying to tell everyone, I think some get it and some don't 

I would be $500 cheaper then jimmy the painter and still have $500 towards a fishing trip......and still get the job


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I think we all want the lowest price for the same level of materials. The argument is usually reserved for aura vs super spec type discussions.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

So, short of demanding that SW knocks 60% off of all of their Promar 200 0 VOC line of paint, across the board, what has this thread taught us other then anomalies do exist.


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## wills fresh coat (Nov 17, 2011)

CApainter said:


> So, short of demanding that SW knocks 60% off of all of their Promar 200 0 VOC line of paint, across the board, what has this thread taught us other then anomalies do exist.


I would disagree, it's clear in this thread that people pay less then $20 a gall for 200. Which several said was impossible and I'm sure there are a lot more getting it for cheaper then me. So with that being said......ever think that you sir may be the anomaly?


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

wills fresh coat said:


> That's what I've been trying to tell everyone, I think some get it and some don't
> 
> I would be $500 cheaper then jimmy the painter and still have $500 towards a fishing trip......and still get the job


Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy. Or in other words not spec SWP ever again unless I can get the best prices on mats.


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## wills fresh coat (Nov 17, 2011)

straight_lines said:


> Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy. Or in other words not spec SWP ever again unless I can get the best prices on mats.


You can piss your money away as you see fit, sw will be more then happy to take it


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

aaron61 said:


> if I am providing a price to a customer on a job that requires 100 gallons and I am getting the paint $10 cheaper a gallon my price will be $1,000 dollars cheaper than Jimmy the painter.
> Who do you think will get that job?


You see, this was what I was getting at in my thread about whether paint discounts are passed on to the customer.

It sounds like Aaron sort of does. 

I guess this also can give flexibility depending on how bad somebody wants the job, so you could pass on some of the "savings", and also put a bit more in your own pocket as well.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

wills fresh coat said:


> I would disagree, it's clear in this thread that people pay less then $20 a gall for 200. Which several said was impossible and I'm sure there are a lot more getting it for cheaper then me. So with that being said......ever think that you sir may be the anomaly?


I don't have enough data to empirically show or prove that most companies don't get that deep of a discount, but just from the standpoint of feedback from the forum, it doesn't appear to be the case. 

Will, do you paint more than just walls on interior projects? You say you use speedhide for most of your interiors. On ceilings I can see it being ok, but it's a pretty low quality paint overall. 

You never have answered me about what you use on trim. Either you didn't see my question or choose to ignore it. 

I get your overall thesis that for the most part interiors don't require the highest quality coating system for walls in most cases, and that exteriors do deserve that consideration more. But there are areas of interiors that in my opinion should get special attention with quality coating systems as well: bathrooms, kitchens, and of course trim. 

You never have addressed those aspects in the subject of choosing products. It's as if you don't paint anything besides walls and ceilings on interiors. 

You also haven't been that descriptive about the type of work you do. I think I've heard you mostly talk about doing commercial types, offices and such. Speedhide would work for that stuff, I agree. But nice homes where you have people that want a long lasting job worth paying good money, I don't feel right using such a cheap quality coating.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

wills fresh coat said:


> I would disagree, it's clear in this thread that people pay less then $20 a gall for 200. Which several said was impossible and I'm sure there are a lot more getting it for cheaper then me. So with that being said......ever think that you sir may be the anomaly?


No. I don't.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Here we go guys. First one to complain about the edits gets a swift whack with the ban stick. By the time people quote a d respond to this and that, it is not as simple as pulling a post or two and having everything still make sense.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Bump for Matt and Will.


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## wills fresh coat (Nov 17, 2011)

TJ Paint said:


> I don't have enough data to empirically show or prove that most companies don't get that deep of a discount, but just from the standpoint of feedback from the forum, it doesn't appear to be the case.
> 
> Will, do you paint more than just walls on interior projects? You say you use speedhide for most of your interiors. On ceilings I can see it being ok, but it's a pretty low quality paint overall.
> 
> ...


We use speed hide or pm200 for trim walls and ceilings on pretty much everything we paint
I've never had an issue with these on any of our jobs no mater what the cost of the house is.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

wills fresh coat said:


> We use speed hide or pm200 for trim walls and ceilings on pretty much everything we paint
> I've never had an issue with these on any of our jobs no mater what the cost of the house is.


Are you talking about a repaint or NC?


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## wills fresh coat (Nov 17, 2011)

NCPaint1 said:


> Are you talking about a repaint or NC?


I would never use that expensive material on nc


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

wills fresh coat said:


> I would never use that expensive material on nc


I had to ask. I don't sell many NC jobs other than a few custom builds a year. Then its a fit the product to the need sorta thing.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

wills fresh coat said:


> I would never use that expensive material on nc


Would depend on what was spec'ed wouldn't it? I could understand that on tract homes or lower-end spec homes.


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

Will, is that low low price for the original pm 200, or for the new pm 200 zero voc?


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## wills fresh coat (Nov 17, 2011)

ProWallGuy said:


> Will, is that low low price for the original pm 200, or for the new pm 200 zero voc?


Pm sent


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