# Exterior Azak Trim?



## Kelly Painting (Apr 17, 2007)

Got an exterior trim job to bid, half of the wood was replaced with azak.
I've done some research and found that 100% acrylic latex is the way to go,
no primer needed. Going to caulk with good caulking first, then two coats off white Ben Moore finish.

Has anyone worked with azak before? is this information correct?
Will it stand up over time?


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

I have heard it both ways to prime and don't have to.. I don't think you will have a problem with 100% acrylic but make sure its clean.

Nice to see you posting Kelly... been busy?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

We have done it. Check the Azex specs for the particular product you are painting, they provide good paint instructions. We have done it with acrylic and no primer successfully. Paint bonds to it like crazy. The stuff doesnt expand and contract across its width like wood, rather it expands and contracts over its length. So dont be alarmed if it looks like its changing when the sun hits it.


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## Brian (Apr 10, 2007)

I've not heard of Azek. A quick peek at their web site makes me think it's a vinyl product. We've used various vinyl mouldings without priming and we've not had any problems. If I'm wrong about it being vinyl, please disregard and set me straight.

Brian Phillips


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

I believe its PVC if I am not mistaken but I sure that PVC and vinyl have to be close in nature? One harder then the other maybe?


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## Kelly Painting (Apr 17, 2007)

Ya Mark, been straight out. Hired a few extra guys and even worked thru the weekend. Been doing allot of decks.

Brian, yes I believe it is a vinyl product, and the same instructions for siding applies. 

I'll keep ya posted with pics if you like.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Its PVC, just like the pipe that plumbers use.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I will fulfill TimHag's board duties again:
http://www.azek.com/setcontrol/download_file.php?id=28&table=document&field=file


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## Kelly Painting (Apr 17, 2007)

Thanks Dean.


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## dincao (Oct 25, 2007)

I have installed azek but have not yet painted, it is pvc and they say it doesnt need primer, but it wouldnt hurt to prime w/ 100% acrylic just so there is no flashing from nail filler....


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## Brian (Apr 10, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> Its PVC, just like the pipe that plumbers use.


I'm not trying to split hairs, but there are different types of PVC (or at least that is my understanding). PVC means polyvinyl chloride. My understanding is that this is a somewhat generic term, but I'm no chemist. Different chemical components/ processes can yield CPVC or UPVC (and maybe others).

I know that some "vinyl" shutters-- I use the term somewhat generically-- are paintable and others aren't. When we replace shutters it's a big issue with us to determine the color the customer wants if they opt for "vinyl". 

I'm not trying to be a jerk. But we need to understand the substrate and how to paint it. If we are too quick to label something X, we might be making a mistake. Been there, done that. For example, I thought all fiber cement products are Hardie. They aren't.

Brian Phillips


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## timhag (Sep 30, 2007)

DeanV said:


> I will fulfill TimHag's board duties again:
> http://www.azek.com/setcontrol/download_file.php?id=28&table=document&field=file


Thanks brother Dean, was just about to post a link when I came across this.:thumbsup:


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I have not found anything on their site more specific than this quote:

Free foam cellular pvc material with a small-cell microstructure and density of
.55 grams/cm3.

And, you are welcome Tim.


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## Boden Painting (Dec 27, 2007)

you need to be color of the color or more specifically the LRV (light reflective value) the darker colors won't work and will actually absorb so much heat that they will warp themselves right off the wall. Special paint can be bought but when I bought it about 3 years ago it was upwards of $80/gal.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

I believe some SW and PPG products are now rated to be safe for Azek or made to handle the color issue. But yes I have heard that the darker colors can give you problems, similar to if you were to paint vinyl siding a darker color then the original.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

In the link I posted, it mentioned that SW's vinyl safe system is good for any color. Otherwise, they want the LRV to be 55 or greater.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

Hardie is a "brand name" of cement board. - but you know that now Brian


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## Kelly Painting (Apr 17, 2007)

Anyone have any suggestions for Ben Moore or California? (Top coat)


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## slickshift (Apr 8, 2007)

Kelly Painting said:


> I've done some research and found that 100% acrylic latex is the way to go,
> no primer needed.
> 
> ...two coats off white Ben Moore finish.
> ...


Yes, I've worked with it numerous times over the past few years with a few different paints

The earliest data sheets from Azek only mention SW products, as they had a "you test we'll spec you" deal
The latest information includes a few other paint manufacturers

Although you could certainly use a primer, it is not recommended
I have not used one yet

I've successfully used Duration, Manor Hall, and Moorglo Softgloss with no primer
All seem to hold about the same, all need two thin coats (although Duration is thicker, it still needs two thin coats)
One important point not mentioned in any lit. I've found is that the trim must be clean, clean, clean
Really paint doesn't want to stick to it...you need every advantage
Those nail guns tend to put a lovely thin spray of oil on the trim...you might not even see it
You need to clean in with lacquer thinner or acetone, something that does not leave a film
Paint thinner, mineral spirits, etc...they leave enough of an oil film it could mess you up

But yeah, two coats of MoorGlo will work fine


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## Kelly Painting (Apr 17, 2007)

Should have known you'd know Slick, thanks Moorglo was my first choice,
I've already powerwashed, so the dirt is gone, and I plan on a light sand.

Was going to get in touch with you anyways...heading back to the Island
sometime in June. will keep you posted.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Brian said:


> I'm not trying to split hairs, but there are different types of PVC (or at least that is my understanding). PVC means polyvinyl chloride. My understanding is that this is a somewhat generic term, but I'm no chemist. Different chemical components/ processes can yield CPVC or UPVC (and maybe others).
> 
> _Anytime a builder installs this stuff, we ask them to get from their supplier the Azek finishing instructions for the particular product. Thats why I suggested Kelly do the same. It takes the detective work out of it for us._
> 
> ...


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Had great success with Duration on CLEAN surfaces. Use a high quality caulking and putty with something that will not sink or shrink. Hopefully they used a finish nail on it. If they used a framing nail you may need to adjust the price.


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## slickshift (Apr 8, 2007)

Kelly Painting said:


> I've already powerwashed, so the dirt is gone, and I plan on a light sand.


 Be careful with the light sand
I haven't sanded unless I had too
It affects the texture of the boards
Many have these little bumps...like stipple
You sand...say over a nail hole fill, and you smooth out the stipple around the fill, and your hosed...you have to sand the whole thing now...just right...not too hard, not too soft...PITA
It can affect the texture enough to show through the paint
I know some guys that say they sand...and some that won't sand (for those legit reasons)

I try not to sand if at all possible
...and real careful if needed

Watch the cut/butt ends too, make sure to coat/caulk them
The ends of those boards are nice little mold farms



Kelly Painting said:


> ...heading back to the Island
> sometime in June. will keep you posted.


Sweet!
:boat:


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## slickshift (Apr 8, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> Hopefully they used a finish nail on it. If they used a framing nail you may need to adjust the price.


It's common to use a waffle head out here
It's a big hole...but with the winds out here I can understand

The jury is still out on the best nail hole filler
I've tried a few things...I don't really care for the light weight spackle as it seems to flash and not look quite right, but the second coat it's hard to tell
Everything else hasn't worked out for me for one reason or another

I've heard CrackShot works well
I also know of one guy who (says he) uses the Azek adhesive (caulk) and chips off the excess with a putty knife after it dries
Expensive (the caulk) but he says it looks great and no sanding
I've not tried or seen the results of either at this time


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## PlantainPainting (Apr 19, 2007)

slickshift said:


> It's common to use a waffle head out here
> It's a big hole...but with the winds out here I can understand


Not as big of a holes as the last one i just painted. Builder used stainless steel screws on all window and door trim. Said he didn't want anything "blowing off." If that wasn't tough enough he managed to strip about 10% and leave them. I used bondo to fill those holes- pita but worked out allright. Crackshot is what I normally use on finish nail holes- it works well IMO. Imagine if one of those Anderson windows is defective- he's going to have real fun replacing it. Funny thing is - as concerned as he was about the window trim- he used the snap-on brackets to install all the cornerboards.


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## slickshift (Apr 8, 2007)

PlantainPainting said:


> ... concerned ...about the window trim- he used the snap-on brackets to install all the cornerboards.


:laughing:


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## townie (Nov 18, 2008)

Bondo the nail holes i like the formula 27, because its white... sand off the excees with corugated drywall sandpaper and a fine brand detail sander if needed use good caulking maybe dynaflex elastrometric. Sponge sand, and wipe with denatured alcohol to thin coats of sw duration with a little extender fo more wet edge time. stay out direct sunlight if possible, and cooler temperatures are actually better. Stick with the satin and avoid the gloss if you can. Azak has no rigidity to it, and the gloss tends to amplify dips or waves in the trim. Allow extra time in your bid because its almost like painting interior trim


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

I havent had any luck getting paint to stick to that PVC trim. The one time I tried cleaning it with acetone after the builder trimmed a bunch of windows - I was taking off a coating that was already there from the factory - and it didn't take much for it to come off! The stuff is a nightmare. I ended up using that $14 tube of caulk they sell for that and filled the screw holes and touched up the spots with q-tips. Disaster product in my opinion. I can't wait until painters hit it for the second or third time - I already have a release in my contracts for those stupid products.


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

This stuff is the ONLY way to go with pvc/vinyl and even glass! Yes you heard me right glass. 

I primed a window using this stuff.. a vinyl clad and used this.. real easy to use/clean.. it dries really fast and this stuff is TOUGH to get off. I had a hard time with a razor blade taking it off the glass! I have used gallons upon gallons of this stuff and it has NEVER failed me.  It is an ICI Paint product, you can get it at home depot under the glidden brand, since glidden is an ICI brand.


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## Primer Guy (Apr 20, 2007)

Do it right- Plastic & Vinyl primer from XIM. Specially formulated for PVC and most other plastics. Super aggressive adhesion. If you are in California or OTC state- UMA Bonder.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

I agree with Primer guy - XIM has the specialty resin, and a certain amount of MEK and acetones - I believe that actually 'melts' the pvc - so the resin intermixes for a superior bond. Even though I do believe the earlier poster brought up the gripper - that's been a fantastic product as well - I washed some wall panelling down with Dirtex/TSP - and then primed with gripper - man that did an awesome job! Much better than Ben Moores expensive all-purpose acrylic primer.


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## townie (Nov 18, 2008)

Never primed azak, and never had any complaints with adhesion.Maybe i'll try next time. I 've heard the XIM before but have never used. Curious??


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Many of the new premium exterior formulations are fully equipped to give proper adhesion to what used to be alternative substrates like vinyl and pvc. We havent had any problems with it. Just dont caulk those miters.


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## Flaky (Sep 12, 2008)

Is there any reason to not use oil-based primer on Azek (other than that the manufacturer recommends acrylic)? It's usually my first choice for exterior (Moore's Fast Dry). Two summers ago I painted a few Azek boards from some repairs - primed them with acrylic and painted with Moorglo. All except one which I primed with the Fast Dry. The oil-primed board looked just as good this summer as the acrylic-primed boards. (My preparation was to sand with a sanding sponge, and fill the holes with a caulk made for PVC - except for the oil-primed board, where I used glazing compound in the holes.)


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## Kelly Painting (Apr 17, 2007)

Azek does not recommend (or need) a primer. Only a acrylic latex top coat. I did a bunch this year.


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