# Wet & Sun resistant coating on wood garden surround



## DontPanic (Jan 17, 2021)

Hi, I have a job to paint this garden edging in San Diego. The top horizontal surface gets nightly dew and sprinkler water a couple of times a week. There is probably some moisture coming from the soil through the wood outside surface as well. It had Cabot's water-based semi-solid body stain which stood up fairly well for about 2 years. The photos show the current state of the stain now 4-5 years old.
The client now wants a solid color. 
I've been recommended the below. What will last the longest?

Sherwin Williams problock primer with Resilience OR
Rustoleum Porch and Floor OR
Deck Revive Deck Revive 1/4 Kit | Gulf Synthetics (expensive solution, would need 2 of these kits $83ea for the 100sqft job plus still need paint and primer)
Pool paint


----------



## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

I would stick with a solid Stain like Arborcoat Deck & Siding Maintenence will be a nightmare with a paint.


----------



## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

use Cabot's oil-based Solid Stain. will last about 4 years, easy to re-stain.

Anything else and you're asking for failure - paint peeling.
I would advise against using anything water-based or film-forming (no paints or primers). Stick with Cabot's oil based stains.

Pressure wash and clean the surface thoroughly, and then make the switch- will be fine.

Edit: Because the wood is at ground level (and receives sprinkler water), if you use any of the products you listed, it will fail within a year.


----------



## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

seal with shipnshore or a epoxy seal then solid stain


----------



## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Just use Cabot's oil based Solid Stain.


----------



## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Holland said:


> Just use Cabot's oil based Solid Stain.


just realied this guy is in california, cabot solid stain is not available there as its not SCAQMD compliant.

Probably can get some epoxy sealer from a marine coatings outfit then coat with acrylic solid stain.


----------



## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> just realied this guy is in california, cabot solid stain is not available there as its not SCAQMD compliant.
> 
> Probably can get some epoxy sealer from a marine coatings outfit then coat with acrylic solid stain.


you make a good point about California regulations, but not sure about the two layer (epoxy and latex stain).

That wood will wick moisture from the backside. It was my understanding that epoxy needs to be watertight when used for exterior surface applications.


----------



## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Holland said:


> you make a good point about California regulations, but not sure about the two layer (epoxy and latex stain).
> 
> That wood will wick moisture from the backside. It was my understanding that epoxy needs to be watertight when used for exterior surface applications.


these penetrating epoxy primers are different from what you are referring to as traditional film forming epoxies. They work REALLY well to seal exterior wood and accept a wide variety of top coats. If you seal with an epoxy you are not likely to have any peeling issues.

Shipnshore would be my first simply for ease of use but CPES does it better. Probably can't get shipnshore in california though either though...


----------



## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> these penetrating epoxy primers are different from what you are referring to as traditional film forming epoxies. They work REALLY well to seal exterior wood and accept a wide variety of top coats. If you seal with an epoxy you are not likely to have any peeling issues.


What I'm wondering about is this - and I'm bringing it up to ask the question. My understanding of epoxy sealers or primers is that they waterproof. So you'd have damp (at least much of the time) on the soil side and no where for the moisture to go which would just encourage quicker rot. Unless maybe the inside of the box was waterproofed? If it's not waterproofed on the soil side, I'd be thinking about something that breathes and doesn't hold in moisture. But like I said, I'm mostly asking maybe a penetrating epoxy primer wouldn't intro that problem?


----------



## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Joe67 said:


> What I'm wondering about is this - and I'm bringing it up to ask the question. My understanding of epoxy sealers or primers is that they waterproof. So you'd have damp (at least much of the time) on the soil side and no where for the moisture to go which would just encourage quicker rot. Unless maybe the inside of the box was waterproofed? If it's not waterproofed on the soil side, I'd be thinking about something that breathes and doesn't hold in moisture. But like I said, I'm mostly asking maybe a penetrating epoxy primer wouldn't intro that problem?


CPES in particular will still let the wood breath moisture will not accumulate behind the coating.


----------



## DontPanic (Jan 17, 2021)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> CPES in particular will still let the wood breath moisture will not accumulate behind the coating.


I called therotdoctor.com. They have a new product 'S1 sealer' (epoxy) which he recommended for this application and it will ship to California (but not the LA basin FYI - not an issue for me). S-1 Sealer - Epoxy products to repair and resist wood rot. It seals about 85% with one coat so will allow some water to evaporate through. Ideally it is applied to bare wood to penetrate the fibers. But then if we put soild stain or paint over the epoxy it will be sealed and lock in the water from the backside soil. Will need to investigate how wet the actually soil/wood is in this dry San Diego climate. It may be fine to seal off the outside surfaces. Waterbased paints/stains can go over the S1 if throughly dry after 1-2days. Dr Rot answers the phone 7 days a week: 206-364-2155


----------



## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

DontPanic said:


> I called therotdoctor.com. They have a new product 'S1 sealer' (epoxy) which he recommended for this application and it will ship to California (but not the LA basin FYI - not an issue for me). S-1 Sealer - Epoxy products to repair and resist wood rot. It seals about 85% with one coat so will allow some water to evaporate through. Ideally it is applied to bare wood to penetrate the fibers. But then if we put soild stain or paint over the epoxy it will be sealed and lock in the water from the backside soil. Will need to investigate how wet the actually soil/wood is in this dry San Diego climate. It may be fine to seal off the outside surfaces. Waterbased paints/stains can go over the S1 if throughly dry after 1-2days. Dr Rot answers the phone 7 days a week: 206-364-2155


I appreciate that follow up.

I was thinking about it some more and I can say that you might bring up the issue / question of the waterproofing of the interior of the retaining walls with HO. If they weren't waterproofed when installed...well, then that's something akin to malpractice.


----------



## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Joe67 said:


> I appreciate that follow up.
> 
> I was thinking about it some more and I can say that you might bring up the issue / question of the waterproofing of the interior of the retaining walls with HO. If they weren't waterproofed when installed...well, then that's something akin to malpractice.


If they're not sealed from the ground side then its just a matter of time before the retaining wall fails. I would just put a semisolid oil stain on them and call it a day. No point in applying an expensive epoxy sealer that will outlast the wood its self.


----------



## celicaxx (May 29, 2015)

PPG Flood Solid Stain. Cheap and cheerful. 

Just feather it out and sand it the best you can, and be done. I don't think you need any "trick" products for this scenario.


----------



## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

That's a surface that nothing will last on. Sand it real good, then solid stain. Coat every few years.


----------

