# Benjamin Moore or Sherwin Williams?



## junkkirkland (Oct 19, 2016)

Please vote


----------



## SWPB (Oct 6, 2016)

Ben Moore all day. Their sales reps are knowledgeable (NACE certified) and the products are amazing. SW has good products and we all know that there's a time & place for each one, but quality wise, Ben Moore wins hands down. The trick is to find a solid retailer that values the contractor business and be competitive.


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

STOP! STOP RIGHT THERE! Let me get some fresh popcorn popping.........


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Ok continue. OH WAIT! WAIT!................Forgot the salt. 

Ok go on.


----------



## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

B-e-n m-o-o-r-e


----------



## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

Personally, we're switching from sw to ppg. But from the two above, Ben all day long.


----------



## bobross (Jun 27, 2016)

Switched to hallman lindsay. But they both have their plus and minus. Sw is easiernto find aroumd herew.


----------



## The Cutting Edge (May 25, 2014)

I use Pratt and Lambert but Ben Moore gets my vote.


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

nom,nom, crunch, crunch.....why not behr? nomnomnomnom.........they're everywhere....crunchnomnomnom........isn't that all that matters anymore? nomnomcruunchnomnom.........is it bad manners to type with your mouth full?


----------



## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

PACman said:


> nom,nom, crunch, crunch.....why not behr? nomnomnomnom.........they're everywhere....crunchnomnomnom........isn't that all that matters anymore? nomnomcruunchnomnom.........is it bad manners to type with your mouth full?


From other thread. Tho.

"Sorry, but my thinking was that maybe I could contain all of the Behr crap all on one thread so It would be easier to ignore. We can't convince the mods to send them all to the diy site so I figured this would be the next best thing. So feel free to ignore any new posts on this thread. I will try my best to keep it going to deflect some of the needless Behr threads away from Painttalk. I'm taking one for the team so to speak."


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Wildbill7145 said:


> From other thread. Tho.
> 
> "Sorry, but my thinking was that maybe I could contain all of the Behr crap all on one thread so It would be easier to ignore. We can't convince the mods to send them all to the diy site so I figured this would be the next best thing. So feel free to ignore any new posts on this thread. I will try my best to keep it going to deflect some of the needless Behr threads away from Painttalk. I'm taking one for the team so to speak."


what's that got to do with anything? I'm hungry!

edit: I guess I did type that four letter word here didn't I?


----------



## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

PACman said:


> edit: I guess I did type that four letter word here didn't I?


Bingo.

Containment is the key.


----------



## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

i have no idea what bm product range is like


----------



## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Vylum said:


> i have no idea what bm product range is like


Pretty much like almost every other manufacturers, it goes from 'meh' to 'great'. The addition of the word "almost" is of key importance. Some paint manufacturers never make it up the scale to 'great'.


----------



## Grateful_Monk (Jul 17, 2012)

I'm not one of those painters that like to hang out at the paint store and shoot the sh#$ for hours so..

the #1 reason I use SW is the turnaround time.
the #2 reason is convenience. There is a SW within 4-5 miles of any of my jobs.
the #3 reason is I know the product pretty well and it works for me.

If it isn't broke, don't fix it.


----------



## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

Grateful_Monk said:


> I'm not one of those painters that like to hang out at the paint store and shoot the sh#$ for hours so..
> 
> the #1 reason I use SW is the turnaround time.
> the #2 reason is convenience. There is a SW within 4-5 miles of any of my jobs.
> ...


Those were my reasons too. Then I found ppg. Talk about saving $...big time over sw prices and better products including sundries. I'm telling ya, I was a loyalist for about 15 yrs or so....started making the switch in the spring and haven't regretted it for 1 minute...


----------



## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Vylum said:


> i have no idea what bm product range is like





you should

my vote, BM


----------



## Exactoman (Mar 28, 2013)

This is like... What do you wanna vote for... The old piece of cap 4" duster brush or thst brand new 3" e&j Chinex... The e&j being Ben moore.


----------



## loaded brush (Dec 27, 2007)

BM products. Just wish BM had the locations, store hours, and a much more efficient product to job delivery system. The above mentioned are stellar reasons where SW outshines BM. Absolute bs one has to cut their workday short to drive the distance and get to a BM store before they close at 5. (Really 5 o,clock. Hello it's not 1975 anymore). I've flip flopped back and forth over the years for the above stated reasons. Like one company's product more than the other, but store convenience is a major factor when operating a business too. Hopefully with BM under new management, they'll actually start see the need to be more competitive in regards to store structure.


----------



## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

loaded brush said:


> BM products. Just wish BM had the locations, store hours, and a much more efficient product to job delivery system. The above mentioned are stellar reasons where SW outshines BM. Absolute bs one has to cut their workday short to drive the distance and get to a BM store before they close at 5. (Really 5 o,clock. Hello it's not 1975 anymore). I've flip flopped back and forth over the years for the above stated reasons. Like one company's product more than the other, but store convenience is a major factor when operating a business too. Hopefully with BM under new management, they'll actually start see the need to be more competitive in regards to store structure.


Gotta be more organized to make more $.


----------



## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

lilpaintchic said:


> Gotta be more organized to make more $.


I understand what he was getting at. If you work solo or with only a couple guys and are working all day, being able to get off the job and pick stuff up for the next day or next job is great ..except when they close at 5...which makes sw's hours more appealing.


----------



## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

sayn3ver said:


> I understand what he was getting at. If you work solo or with only a couple guys and are working all day, being able to get off the job and pick stuff up for the next day or next job is great ..except when they close at 5...which makes sw's hours more appealing.


I get that, my statement was a bit "curt",i'm sorry! I understand the hours delimma as I deal with it at ppg now. It's a transition, for sure. But if found that it's made me become more organized as it is less convienent. I didn't realize how much that convienence was costing!! It was making me lazy in some ways...now, I order more in bulk, make less trips and have them deliver as much as possible. I always have the stores deliver...even if it's only a couple of gallons. If Im short and need an extra gallon or??? It is what it is, but I'm saving so much in every other area that it's worth the effort to me for what we've got going anyway.


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Ok I'm going to chime in here on the store hour thing. The man hour multiplication factor needed to be open from 7:00am to 8-9 at night is 1.8. That's straight out of SW's P&L format. That means to stay open those 3-4 more hours every night, you need to multiply your 7-5 man hours by 1.8. That means you need almost two times as many employees to cover those hours on a weekly basis. Not very many independent Ben Moore dealers (and they all are btw) are able to justify that expense without almost doubling their sales. That very rarely happens. The decision was made by SW many years ago to start staying open later at more and more stores until they gradually had enough sales to do it nation wide. This was literally a twenty year process. They also had the advantage of being able to finance those added hours until it became viable for them. Independent dealers don't have that luxury. They have to concentrate their trained staff to the hours when the vast majority of their business is done, which in most markets is from 7-5.

If they had enough business, say as much business as a typical SW store does, they would be able to justify staying open later. It's an economical decision, not one of convenience unfortunately. Convenience costs money. That's why that gallon of milk you buy at the local quicky mart costs twice as much as it does at the super market.
And who is paying for that convenience at the SW store? The consumer. In many different ways, the main one is buying a product that in general is of a lower quality at a higher and seemingly always rising price. The question is, how much is that convenience worth to you? 

As far as the products are concerned, overall I would give the advantage to BM. But their pricing is pretty dependent on how much the independent owner that owns the store is willing to wheel and deal to get contractor business. Most of them don't give a very good deal to contractors. Although the discounts SW gives are bigger, the quality is typically lower and the starting price is extremely over inflated. There is no way a gallon of Emerald costs as much as a gallon of Aura to manufacture, but their "starting" price is very similar. Emerald should actually be sold at about half it's retail price for it to be a fair price. $35 or so. You will typically pay about $10 more for Regal Select with the going contractor prices most BM dealers give.


----------



## The Cutting Edge (May 25, 2014)

The hours SW stayed open is probably the only thing I miss about them and theres one only 2 miles from my house. I can remember multiple times I picked paint up at 5 pm on a Sunday.


----------



## Exactoman (Mar 28, 2013)

If convenience is your thing... Isn't it more convenient to use a superior paint for a few dollars more... Spend a bit more time getting the paint, so you spend less time applying the paint... Unless you work by the hour... Then by all means, milk the clock with sherwin ladies abd gentlemen!


----------



## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Exactoman said:


> If convenience is your thing... Isn't it more convenient to use a superior paint for a few dollars more... Spend a bit more time getting the paint, so you spend less time applying the paint... Unless you work by the hour... Then by all means, milk the clock with sherwin ladies abd gentlemen!


Excellent point.


----------



## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

Exactoman said:


> This is like... What do you wanna vote for... The old piece of cap 4" duster brush or thst brand new 3" e&j Chinex... The e&j being Ben moore.


I just bought two of those brushes in that size at one of my local Ben Moore stores, my vote for best paintstore here. We have several Ben Moore's near here. Miller/Kelly Moore (& PPG) takes 2nd. Sherwin would be my 3rd choice from my local selection.

Those brushes kick butt.


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

ridesarize said:


> I just bought two of those brushes in that size at one of my local Ben Moore stores, my vote for best paintstore here. We have several Ben Moore's near here. Miller/Kelly Moore (& PPG) takes 2nd. Sherwin would be my 3rd choice from my local selection.
> 
> Those brushes kick butt.


I sell a bunch of E&J Chinex brushes. Damn good brush.


----------



## NACE (May 16, 2008)

PACman said:


> Ok I'm going to chime in here on the store hour thing. The man hour multiplication factor needed to be open from 7:00am to 8-9 at night is 1.8. That's straight out of SW's P&L format. That means to stay open those 3-4 more hours every night, you need to multiply your 7-5 man hours by 1.8. That means you need almost two times as many employees to cover those hours on a weekly basis. Not very many independent Ben Moore dealers (and they all are btw) are able to justify that expense without almost doubling their sales. That very rarely happens. The decision was made by SW many years ago to start staying open later at more and more stores until they gradually had enough sales to do it nation wide. This was literally a twenty year process. They also had the advantage of being able to finance those added hours until it became viable for them. Independent dealers don't have that luxury. They have to concentrate their trained staff to the hours when the vast majority of their business is done, which in most markets is from 7-5.
> If they had enough business, say as much business as a typical SW store does, they would be able to justify staying open later. It's an economical decision, not one of convenience unfortunately. Convenience costs money. That's why that gallon of milk you buy at the local quicky mart costs twice as much as it does at the super market.
> And who is paying for that convenience at the SW store? The consumer. In many different ways, the main one is buying a product that in general is of a lower quality at a higher and seemingly always rising price. The question is, how much is that convenience worth to you?
> 
> As far as the products are concerned, overall I would give the advantage to BM. But their pricing is pretty dependent on how much the independent owner that owns the store is willing to wheel and deal to get contractor business. Most of them don't give a very good deal to contractors. Although the discounts SW gives are bigger, the quality is typically lower and the starting price is extremely over inflated. There is no way a gallon of Emerald costs as much as a gallon of Aura to manufacture, but their "starting" price is very similar. Emerald should actually be sold at about half it's retail price for it to be a fair price. $35 or so. You will typically pay about $10 more for Regal Select with the going contractor prices most BM dealers give.


Independents. People that put their own money at risk vs Corporate owned. Always check spread rates. Which gallon of paint spreads the farthest given equal comparison. A $30 gallon that goes 250-300 sq ft vs a $40 that spreads 400-450 sq ft, which is less expensive?


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Exactoman said:


> If convenience is your thing... Isn't it more convenient to use a superior paint for a few dollars more... Spend a bit more time getting the paint, so you spend less time applying the paint... Unless you work by the hour... Then by all means, milk the clock with sherwin ladies abd gentlemen!


So what you are saying is that you can save more time using a better paint that applies easier and faster than the time you spend going to a store that's a little less convenient? What a concept! I've been trying to tell people this for my entire career. Some folks get it, some folks don't. Some people drive 5hitty 10 year old work vans, some people get a nice new one every few years. Funny how they all basically charge the same for the same jobs. If you think you can make money chasing down one promar 200 job after another just like 90% of all the other painters are doing, have at it. Sw won't complain about it or suggest another business strategy. They're selling all the paint they can, so why would they want their customers to change how they are doing business?

My best suggestion as far as the product qualities themselves is to try a little benchmark testing yourself. I know this is hard to arrange but try using a couple of products from each company on a job sometime. The closer the time frame you apply them, the better. Nothing will give you the opportunity to compare them like using them as close to side by side as possible. Using one brands' product one day and the other brands' product a few days later doesn't work.


----------



## Exactoman (Mar 28, 2013)

PACman said:


> So what you are saying is that you can save more time using a better paint that applies easier and faster than the time you spend going to a store that's a little less convenient? What a concept! I've been trying to tell people this for my entire career. Some folks get it, some folks don't. Some people drive 5hitty 10 year old work vans, some people get a nice new one every few years. Funny how they all basically charge the same for the same jobs. If you think you can make money chasing down one promar 200 job after another just like 90% of all the other painters are doing, have at it. Sw won't complain about it or suggest another business strategy. They're selling all the paint they can, so why would they want their customers to change how they are doing business?
> 
> My best suggestion as far as the product qualities themselves is to try a little benchmark testing yourself. I know this is hard to arrange but try using a couple of products from each company on a job sometime. The closer the time frame you apply them, the better. Nothing will give you the opportunity to compare them like using them as close to side by side as possible. Using one brands' product one day and the other brands' product a few days later doesn't work.


Pacman gets it guys. Put your promar up against ultra spec. Put your emerald up against Aura! 😂
Put your duration against Regal... Your proclassic against advance... Not even close.


----------



## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

PACman said:


> My best suggestion as far as the product qualities themselves is to try a little benchmark testing yourself. I know this is hard to arrange but try using a couple of products from each company on a job sometime. The closer the time frame you apply them, the better. Nothing will give you the opportunity to compare them like using them as close to side by side as possible. Using one brands' product one day and the other brands' product a few days later doesn't work.


this is good advice. i like to go to which ever is convenient be it clover, sw, bm dulex or use which ever the ho buys and theres alot of different products at each place, its hard to remember which product where performs better.


how do bm whites cover compared to others?


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

If I had a dime for every time a painter has said "I've been using such and such for twenty years! I know how it works! I don't have to use it side by side with yours to know which one is a better product!", only to have them not be able to tell "such and such" from chalk water when the labels are pulled off the cans.


----------



## Exactoman (Mar 28, 2013)

Vylum said:


> this is good advice. i like to go to which ever is convenient be it clover, sw, bm dulex or use which ever the ho buys and theres alot of different products at each place, its hard to remember which product where performs better.
> 
> 
> how do bm whites cover compared to others?


What?!??


----------



## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

For me, SW is the only game in town. There's a BM dealer about 6 miles further away and it IS very inconvenient trying to get there. I'm an old dog and would love to try new "tricks" if I could find a closer BM dealer or a PPG store ANYWHERE close.

The only downside to a big switch is NOT KNOWING the longevity factor of competing paint lines. I mean, now I have a pretty good handle on how long SuperPaint, Cashmere, Duration, and ProClassic will last before needing recoated. It's always nice to say to the HO, "Hey, that paint job should give you 7 to 8 years of service before needing re-painted." I wouldn't have that same kind of confidence in a new paint line or would I?


----------



## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

Gymschu said:


> For me, SW is the only game in town. There's a BM dealer about 6 miles further away and it IS very inconvenient trying to get there. I'm an old dog and would love to try new "tricks" if I could find a closer BM dealer or a PPG store ANYWHERE close.
> 
> The only downside to a big switch is NOT KNOWING the longevity factor of competing paint lines. I mean, now I have a pretty good handle on how long SuperPaint, Cashmere, Duration, and ProClassic will last before needing recoated. It's always nice to say to the HO, "Hey, that paint job should give you 7 to 8 years of service before needing re-painted." I wouldn't have that same kind of confidence in a new paint line or would I?


You would or at least could if you went apples to apples. You may even end up with a higher quality product and finish at a lower price if you found a ppg store...likely the same story at bm but I'd imagine a higher price (that you could sell with a mark up.)
I do feel for you folks in smaller towns. It's easy to forget that not everyone has access to things us city slickers do.


----------



## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

6 miles out of the way is worth having the chance to use top quality paint. Ben Moore is specced usually for all the nicest homes around here, and that is a good market to be in. It means the clients are quality usually too because they're smart, reasonable, understand the value gained in the end, and trust their professional painter to get the best results.

I'm so happy, very happy to be on a Ben Moore specced interior. This job will be much more enjoyable compared to the previous 8 day job we just finished. Client insisted on sub contractor grade paints on a million dollar home.


----------



## goga (Aug 6, 2015)

SW mostly runny paints, BM ok with upper grade, Rodda has good upper grade, but mostly an ok, good service and prices though. Miller (KM).. can't find better service, let alone paints.


----------



## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

goga said:


> SW mostly runny paints, BM ok with upper grade, Rodda has good upper grade, but mostly an ok, good service and prices though. Miller (KM).. can't find better service, let alone paints.


I like the Miller/KM by me. I have been going there off and on for 19 years. They have had so many great employees and reps, but sadly I have seen easily 5-6 cycles of managers being there for years, having good staff, but then being let go because KM could promote the newer guy for less money. Then they end up doing good, getting to know all the customers, and then he's gone. Now they are Miller, they brought in a great manager, hope he's long term. Last week I hear they probably are moving to a new building farther away from my home. Makes me sad but I'll definitely still shop there.

Resp cartridges are under like $9 there. Prefilters price still knocks the wind out you though.
Anyone know where to get 6000 series prefilters for a good price??


----------



## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Gymschu said:


> For me, SW is the only game in town. There's a BM dealer about 6 miles further away and it IS very inconvenient trying to get there. I'm an old dog and would love to try new "tricks" if I could find a closer BM dealer or a PPG store ANYWHERE close.
> 
> The only downside to a big switch is NOT KNOWING the longevity factor of competing paint lines. I mean, now I have a pretty good handle on how long SuperPaint, Cashmere, Duration, and ProClassic will last before needing recoated. It's always nice to say to the HO, "Hey, that paint job should give you 7 to 8 years of service before needing re-painted." I wouldn't have that same kind of confidence in a new paint line or would I?


I can tell you PPG's manor hall will last as long as cashmere, super paint or duration, AND it will be less expensive. I have used them all .


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Gymschu said:


> For me, SW is the only game in town. There's a BM dealer about 6 miles further away and it IS very inconvenient trying to get there. I'm an old dog and would love to try new "tricks" if I could find a closer BM dealer or a PPG store ANYWHERE close.
> 
> The only downside to a big switch is NOT KNOWING the longevity factor of competing paint lines. I mean, now I have a pretty good handle on how long SuperPaint, Cashmere, Duration, and ProClassic will last before needing recoated. It's always nice to say to the HO, "Hey, that paint job should give you 7 to 8 years of service before needing re-painted." I wouldn't have that same kind of confidence in a new paint line or would I?


Don't all of those SW paints have a lifetime warranty? But with your years of experience you know that they will give 7-8 years of service? That is a brilliant marketing scheme right there! Trust me then, from my years of experience (10 with SW) that dollar for dollar anything from Ben Moore will be serviceable for much more then 7-8 years. I've seen it many times.


----------



## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

PACman said:


> Don't all of those SW paints have a lifetime warranty? But with your years of experience you know that they will give 7-8 years of service? That is a brilliant marketing scheme right there! Trust me then, from my years of experience (10 with SW) that dollar for dollar anything from Ben Moore will be serviceable for much more then 7-8 years. I've seen it many times.


Lifetime warranty=statute of limitations=8yrs. It's a marketing gimmick. Sw is only 1 of countless companies that employ that marketing tactic.


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

lilpaintchic said:


> Lifetime warranty=statute of limitations=8yrs. It's a marketing gimmick. Sw is only 1 of countless companies that employ that marketing tactic.


Yeah no kidding. But don't you kind of feel that it makes a painter look bad when he uses a paint that doesn't last as long as the "marketing gimmick" says it will? Or has to tell a customer he has to do two coats of a product that swears up and down in all of their TV ads that it is a one coat paint? Or having to use a primer with what is sworn on TV to be a "paint and primer" in one? How do you get the average consumer to not believe what they are hearing 30 times a day and believe you, the person who has the actual practical experience? And more importantly, don't you (and I!) get tired of fighting that mass marketing of Bull%hit? I know I do. That is why I am so against the big proponents of selling BS.


----------



## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

PACman said:


> Yeah no kidding. But don't you kind of feel that it makes a painter look bad when he uses a paint that doesn't last as long as the "marketing gimmick" says it will? Or has to tell a customer he has to do two coats of a product that swears up and down in all of their TV ads that it is a one coat paint? Or having to use a primer with what is sworn on TV to be a "paint and primer" in one? How do you get the average consumer to not believe what they are hearing 30 times a day and believe you, the person who has the actual practical experience? And more importantly, don't you (and I!) get tired of fighting that mass marketing of Bull%hit? I know I do. That is why I am so against the big proponents of selling BS.


I don't ask my customers to believe me or not believe them. Just tell them the way it is and leave it at that. If they want to move on at that point, that's fine.

I've wasted enough time over the years dealing with "Which one's the one coat paint?" or "If we use this stuff we don't have to prime the drywall". I've come to realize those are in general not people I want to work for if they fight me on the issue.

I've never felt that made me look bad.


----------



## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Imo,
This is never been a problem for me. Just about every one of our customers will rely on the expertise of our company to give them the best quality product at a reasonable cost.


----------



## SWPB (Oct 6, 2016)

loaded brush said:


> BM products. Just wish BM had the locations, store hours, and a much more efficient product to job delivery system. The above mentioned are stellar reasons where SW outshines BM. Absolute bs one has to cut their workday short to drive the distance and get to a BM store before they close at 5. (Really 5 o,clock. Hello it's not 1975 anymore). I've flip flopped back and forth over the years for the above stated reasons. Like one company's product more than the other, but store convenience is a major factor when operating a business too. Hopefully with BM under new management, they'll actually start see the need to be more competitive in regards to store structure.


That's what Ben Moore is working on from what I hear. You have to remember, Ben Moore doesn't own company stores like PPG or SW. You are supporting a local business (paint dealer). It's the local dealer that determines the market price, delivery options, number of locations, etc. Your company stores make the division 70 - 80% gross margin (35% - 40% at store level). Your independent dealers are lucky to reach 35%. Buy Local and have your dollars support mom & pop businesses.


----------



## SWPB (Oct 6, 2016)

lilpaintchic said:


> Lifetime warranty=statute of limitations=8yrs. It's a marketing gimmick. Sw is only 1 of countless companies that employ that marketing tactic.


SW is a marketing genius. Remember their C950A caulk in 1999--it was a 15 year caulk. Today, the same formulation is now a 45yr (I think), but your warranty will simply give you a new tube if you have the original receipt. 

Go a step further: Duration Exterior. Lifetime Warranty, but their research found that the average consumer changed color preferences every 7 years and / or ownership every 11 years. With the lifetime warranty only covering the original owner, SW hedges their bet that the product will last over 11 years OR you will not have the paperwork to support the claim. And guess what? It doesn't cover fade, only peeling & blistering.


----------



## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

SWPB said:


> SW is a marketing genius. Remember their C950A caulk in 1999--it was a 15 year caulk. Today, the same formulation is now a 45yr (I think), but your warranty will simply give you a new tube if you have the original receipt.
> 
> Go a step further: Duration Exterior. Lifetime Warranty, but their research found that the average consumer changed color preferences every 7 years and / or ownership every 11 years. With the lifetime warranty only covering the original owner, SW hedges their bet that the product will last over 11 years OR you will not have the paperwork to support the claim. And guess what? It doesn't cover fade, only peeling & blistering.


I love this stuff. Original receipt. When I do my taxes every year, half the time you can barely read any of the information on receipts it's so faded. At 45 years I'd assume even if left in a vacuum, most receipts would have oxidized to dust. I realize that anything in a vacuum wouldn't be getting exposed to O2, but you get the gist.

A few weeks ago, we were having some plumbing problems. Called the manufacturer and their customer service department wouldn't even talk to me without me mailing them an original receipt. All I was asking for was some direction, where to get parts, etc. I'm sorry we can't assist you. Goodbye. Click.


----------

