# Low VOC ? O-VOC ? Good Sunday read



## Splitter (Sep 29, 2012)

Navigate in and around this web site and read up on the paints we use... www.pati-air.com


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

I have clients who want absolutely *no odor* from the products I use. They don't necessarily care about VOC content.

What cleaning agents, paints, primers, caulks, patching compounds, etc. do you like that have *zero odor*?


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## Splitter (Sep 29, 2012)

On many occasions over the years we have walked in the HO's home with empty paint pots and new brushes and the folks will swear that the paint smells. It's all in the mind. We tell the Lady of the House when she goes to the Beauty Salon, there are more harmful toxic particles filling the air from perms, hair spray and nail polish but they still go for their regular beauty treatment...Further more various Building materials, wood, glue, carpet, bug spray, perfume, exhaust, gas, and a human fart, etc. etc. all emit foul odors into the air...


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

I paint paint said:


> I have clients who want absolutely *no odor* from the products I use. They don't necessarily care about VOC content.
> 
> What cleaning agents, paints, primers, caulks, patching compounds, etc. do you like that have *zero odor*?


Good luck with that.

We've worked with clients with various chemical sensitivities, but "absolutely no odor" is a stretch. For me, that would be a huge Red Flag...and a deal breaker.

The best solution we've found is to time the work to coincide with the client's travel schedule.


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## matt19422 (Oct 2, 2009)

Odor / Smell / Off-Gassing / Call it what you want, Everyones sense of smell is different.

I could only recommend that Natura is about the closest thing I've used. Mythic paint is not what they claim it to be. 

Air moving, ventilation, play a huge part.


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## oldccm (Jan 23, 2013)

Paint smells? I can't even tell anymore....


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

Natura smells like nothing, and is a great product, as good as Regal Select for sure.


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

Gough said:


> Good luck with that.
> 
> We've worked with clients with various chemical sensitivities, but "absolutely no odor" is a stretch. For me, that would be a huge Red Flag...and a deal breaker.
> 
> The best solution we've found is to time the work to coincide with the client's travel schedule.


Great advice.

Here's a question; do you think recoat times during a painting project affect the overall length of off-gassing after the project is completed?

In other words, say I spec a primer, caulk and paint with minimal, yet still noticeable odor. And let's say each has a 1 to 2 hour dry time per TDS to topcoat.

A couple weeks after a room was painted, do you think there would be a discernible difference in lingering odor if I primed--waited two hours--caulked--waited two hours--painted first coat--waited two hours--painted second coat VERSUS, for the sake of argument, I waited 4 hours in between each step? 24 hours in between each step?

(I am assuming all the other variables would be controlled and the primer/caulk/paint are compatible with each other and with their substrates. And I know every nose will smell something different, ventilation/air circulation will play a large role, and the actual products used will be the biggest factor.)


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

I paint paint said:


> Great advice.
> 
> Here's a question; do you think recoat times during a painting project affect the overall length of off-gassing after the project is completed?
> 
> ...


P. Chem, Environmental Biophysics, and Chemical Kinetics were 40+ years ago, so the only information I have at this point is anecdotal, so here goes. Yes, I think it does make a difference in the persistence of the odor if you wait longer. If you have the luxury to do so, I think waiting 24 hours would be noticeably better.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Paint the first room you do with Behr premium plus ultra or Marquee. Then switch to just about any other low or 0 voc product (other then sw) for the next room. That'll shut them up.


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## PNW Painter (Sep 5, 2013)

I'd agree with Gough that the longer you can wait the better. If you apply a second coat within the first couple hours I can only assume that the first coat will continue to off gas, but it will likely take much longer due to the new coat being applied on top of it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

kdpaint said:


> Natura smells like nothing, and is a great product, as good as Regal Select for sure.


Whelp, gonna be using Natura tomorrow morning for the very first time. Customer demanded it. Painting for a very hormonal, very emotional woman who only seems to convince me to paint for her when she's pregnant. I knew I shouldn't respond to that email.

Anyhoo, folks at my paint shop said end product always looks good, but it's somewhat tricky to use. They were pretty busy and didn't have much time to elaborate. Any thoughts on this?

Stuff wasn't cheap either. Almost $10 more per gallon that Regal which was surprising. Brought it close to Aura which is $75 retail around here.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

I don't agree with your paint store. It doesn't have much of a learning curve. It's like Regal Select more than it is like Aura. Like most newer paints don't go back on it much if you are brushing.

I like the SG for trim as well, and it leaves a great finish. Went through 5 gallons on new trim pack (wainscoting eats paint) and it looked great 6 months later.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

kdpaint said:


> I don't agree with your paint store. It doesn't have much of a learning curve. It's like Regal Select more than it is like Aura. Like most newer paints don't go back on it much if you are brushing.
> 
> I like the SG for trim as well, and it leaves a great finish. Went through 5 gallons on new trim pack (wainscoting eats paint) and it looked great 6 months later.


Great to know. Thanks KD. I hate using new products without at least a little info on how they work. Girls at the paint shop had me a little concerned. The one who said she didn't like using it probably has the most experience painting of the bunch of them.


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Great to know. Thanks KD. I hate using new products without at least a little info on how they work. Girls at the paint shop had me a little concerned. The one who said she didn't like using it probably has the most experience painting of the bunch of them.


Flat finish? No, I don't think there is any learning curve.

I mean, when I opened a gallon the first time and started stirring I was very curious. I paid attention to odor and viscosity and consistency in ways I would normally overlook with other, more common products. I was anticipating something exotic from a boutique product, and what I got was a high quality BM paint without any odor. I love working with it.

When you apply it, it does dry quickly. But it dries quickly similar to most all other paints nowadays, not different from them. I like when my customers ask for it

I look forward to hearing your impressions.


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Whelp, gonna be using Natura tomorrow morning for the very first time. Customer demanded it. Painting for a very hormonal, very emotional woman who only seems to convince me to paint for her when she's pregnant. I knew I shouldn't respond to that email.
> 
> Anyhoo, folks at my paint shop said end product always looks good, but it's somewhat tricky to use. They were pretty busy and didn't have much time to elaborate. Any thoughts on this?
> 
> Stuff wasn't cheap either. Almost $10 more per gallon that Regal which was surprising. Brought it close to Aura which is $75 retail around here.


There has been much interest in the concept of confirmation bias on PT of late. (CA, Semipro, Gough, et al.)

And Bryce started a interesting conversation re: power of positive thinking.

Here's a question:

If Wildbill arrives at job site tomorrow thinking this all was a horrible mistake. (Hormonal client demands I use an overpriced "hippy dippy" product, one I've never used before, and paint store said was pain in ass to apply.) What do we expect his experience to be?

Alternatively, if Wildbill arrives at job site tomorrow thinking this is fresh start to new week. (Painting for a glowing mother to be, who is concerned for human health, and it's exciting getting paid to test a new product.) What do we expect his experience to be?

I think … well … I think I wonder what other people think.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Ok, I am going to show up there tomorrow (after 6 cups of coffee and finish coating a door somewhere else) being so positive that this is gonna turn out awesome. At the end of the day, I'm sure this stuff is fine. I've just never used it. I had no idea it had such a quick dry time.

The customer still remains a lil loopy tho. I'm positive tomorrow will. Oh screw it, it's gonna be what it's gonna be.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

I always liked Natura. It does dry pretty fast, but not like Aura. I think it's even a little slower than the new Regal. Nice buttery feel, covers great at the right mil. Don't get the chance to use it much professionally, were usually using Aura. The local stores don't stock Natura, except for one that's kinda out of the way. I have it on the walls of my house though.


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## JourneymanBrian (Mar 16, 2015)

You could pour a bit of essential orange peel oil into your paint, the house would smell like freshly cleaned. Or like there was an orange grove inside of it.


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

Natura is not a PITA to apply. Can't imagine why they told you that. It's good paint. There's nothing for you to learn. Enjoy the lack of odor.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

PRC said:


> Natura is not a PITA to apply. Can't imagine why they told you that. It's good paint. There's nothing for you to learn. Enjoy the lack of odor.



I guess there might be something to learn if a painter was new to Gennex all together. Any of the new BM stuff seems to me is in a bit of a class of its own. Mostly in the sense of decreased open time. Really gotta hustle to get Aura, or even the new Regal to flow out nice. If you can pull it off though, it's worth it. 

Natura would seem to be a pretty good introduction to that tech. Going straight from something like vinyl acrylics to Aura can be a shock. Was for me anyway.


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

JourneymanBrian said:


> You could pour a bit of essential orange peel oil into your paint, the house would smell like freshly cleaned. Or like there was an orange grove inside of it.


I know paint scent additives like the following exist, but I have no experience with them:

https://paintscentsations.com

Have you actually mixed citrus or lavender or other essential oils in with your paint? Short term/long term results? Water, alkyd, oil?

I'd kinda like toying with it someday, so long as nothing goes wrong…


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Well, I showed up at this woman's house in a relatively positive mood. I think I've realized why this woman's so morose all the time. She's got a 5-6yr old who's probably undiagnosed autistic! Kid's a lunatic. He was doing stuff that would have gotten me a whipping from my Dad (not advocating that).

Anyhoo, Natura. First off, stuff's great. I made one mistake right off the bat, that being brush selection. I grabbed a firm bristle brush, but within 5 minutes realized it just wasn't enough. Had to grab a firm bristle brush that had been used a few times and stiffened up to get the paint where it needed to be.

Really interesting stuff. Within 10 seconds or so of applying, it gets that Aura "electrified" look to it. This settles down pretty quickly.

You guys weren't kidding about lightning fast dry time either. Gotta be pretty quick. It definitely didn't go on like Aura, more like Regal though.

The thing that impressed me the most was the hiding strength. I used a 13mm sleeve (I always use those) and I swear after one dried coat I was looking at these walls thinking "Wow, this looks almost two coated." This was a bright baby blue going over a darker caramel colour. Obviously I did two coats.

As far as odour, I couldn't tell. I can barely smell paint anymore, on top of the fact that I've got a summer cold, so meh.

Would definitely use this stuff again if customer had concerns about odour/VOCs.

At the end of the day she walks in the room, slouches and says "I really don't like blue"... It's for her boys room. She's definitely no "glowing mother to be."

Again, meh. Got paid.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

JourneymanBrian said:


> You could pour a bit of essential orange peel oil into your paint, the house would smell like freshly cleaned. Or like there was an orange grove inside of it.


I'd be very reluctant to try that. Enough people have respiratory sensitivity to d-limonene that I wouldn't want to add that to paint.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

it supposedly doesn't mix well with water.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Its funny that a VOC thread would suggest using D-limonene given the high organic vapors it emits. I used it once in a degreaser format that actually activated an LEL or some kind of an alarm in a chemical storage building.

More on D-limonene


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## JourneymanBrian (Mar 16, 2015)

Yes, like natural turpentine, orange peel oil is also known to be an allergen for some people.

And yes, of course essential oil is basically pure VOC, but some VOCs are more dangerous than others. Here orange peel oil is a relatively common ingredient in natural paints, although usually not as the sole solvent, due to the allergy concerns, I believe. 

As far as I know its just as safe as aliphatic solvent. Aromatic-based solvents are barely used anymore due to health issues.

Maybe you could try mint oil. If its hypoallergenic enough for Vaporub, it should be healthy enough


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## soperfect paint (Aug 25, 2015)

I never used VOC because it smells a lot.Instead of this i can prefer Natura because it does not smell.


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## JourneymanBrian (Mar 16, 2015)

Is this the "natura" made of pure acrylic? 
It is beyond me how that can in anyway be associated with nature. Water based paints are even more dangerous than oils if you spray them, because the body can absorb the water based chemicals, unlike with oil.


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## 38969 (Sep 3, 2015)

You could use a portable HEPA filter and place that inside the home, it will eliminate some of the odors. If anything it will keep the HO happy in that you show that you are trying to keep them healthy.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

soperfect paint said:


> i never used voc because it smells a lot.instead of this i can prefer natura because it does not smell.


oh yeah! So good!


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Marco. said:


> You could use a portable HEPA filter and place that inside the home, it will eliminate some of the odors. If anything it will keep the HO happy in that you show that you are trying to keep them healthy.


HEPA filtration will have negligible impact on VOCs and odors. Doing that for a client would be a charade. If you do want to remove those compounds, there are VOC filtration units utilizing carbon/charcoal adsorbents.


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## Crackshot (Dec 29, 2015)

bit off topic but a funny co-incidence, im actually doing a place right now that i was called in for, the current painter prepped everything and then came to do all the enamel and wanted to do the house in alkyd satin, the HO's are extremely sensitive to such irritants.. lucky for me I get to turn up to a job all set for me, complete the application, collect the green. 
the paint I use is all water based, the only oil's I use is zinny coverstain and meths based is zinny bin (i get by with everything else water). when im contracting I am forced to use what is spec'd by the builder/architect/etc
that being said. I have access to a complete range of the highest performance paints, ALL at less than 1% VOC, provided by a carbon neutral company, with a big green tick.

If the client requested specific requirements you'd be best to stick with what you know.
walk away if you dont know. save face. Exactly what this previous painter did, which I think is very smart. you cant be asked to use a specific product (not used before) by anyone and then asked to stand by the results. they should stand behind their request.

that being said. if the house/room is empty and you left it for 4 weeks and opened the house up what else do you think it would smell of? fart?


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## Crackshot (Dec 29, 2015)

CApainter said:


> Its funny that a VOC thread would suggest using D-limonene given the high organic vapors it emits. I used it once in a degreaser format that actually activated an LEL or some kind of an alarm in a chemical storage building.
> 
> More on D-limonene


ha, one of my co-workers a while back decided it was a good idea to clean paint off his sunburned arms with delimonene, lets say he wasn't in for a week. got raw dermatitis or something. someone told me it can effect your dna?
yet then you find stuff like this. lol
http://www.wellnessresources.com/he...etabolism_detoxification_anxiety_breast_canc/
apparently its good enough to drink


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