# just ordered a kremlin eos 30-C25 pump



## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

will pick it up friday...Deal too good to turn down.

comes cart mounted, excite gun, 5 gallon suction rod, filter & 25’ hose.

http://www.kremlin.ch/osMedia/doc/eos_3922.pdf


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

What are you going to spray with it? 

Perhaps later if you could make a video for us.

How much was it?


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

kitchen cabinets,doors and trim. that type of thing. I'm not a high production NC contractor. this rig is strictly an air assisted unit and it has the best gun on the planet,the excite. i like hvlp type guns because the fans can be adjusted.


i want to use wb tinted lacquers because of the quick cure time and hardness and will also spray some acrylics. hvlp turbines are too hot,airless provides too much volume. i wanted a true aaa. this is considered the top dog in the industry. no more tails!!!

3 grand. i got it at cost + 10%


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Nice.:thumbup:


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Very nice. Looking forward to a report. What cfm air compressor does it need?


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

DeanV said:


> Very nice. Looking forward to a report. What cfm air compressor does it need?



They said my makita would be powerful enough. it's a 3hp,5 gallon compressor rated at 6.9 cfm @40 psi or 6.5 @ 90 psi. nice and portable too.

http://www.ihlcanada.com/COMPRESSORMAC5200.html


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Sweet. It seems like the AAA pumps need just a bit more air a most portable compressors, but a few like the one you mentioned, have just enough to make it work. If I had to take my "portable" 220lb dewalt compressor, it would not be worth it.


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

DeanV said:


> Sweet. It seems like the AAA pumps need just a bit more air a most portable compressors, but a few like the one you mentioned, have just enough to make it work. If I had to take my "portable" 220lb dewalt compressor, it would not be worth it.


yeah that was my main consideration before ordering it.. the old 10:14 kremlins needed a bigger compressor than these new eos pumps. i might even look into getting a bigger accessory tank so the compressor doesn't run as much and just park it next to the pump as the compressor sits outside. we'll see how it goes.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Sweet pump. Those makita big bore compressors are nice as well.


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

straight_lines said:


> Sweet pump. Those makita big bore compressors are nice as well.


yeah i have the mac700 as well. it's only about 50 pounds. the makitas aren't that loud compared to some oil-less models.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Yea when I first heard one I couldn't believe how quiet they were. I am looking forward to your posts about how the pump performs with wb pigmented lacquer.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Until my problems with microbubbles on the furniture, I was thinking about making the switch to wb lacquer for some smaller spray projects due to recoat time and finish. Now, I am in a bit of a holding pattern on that plan. I ordered some new tips for my AAA and will hopefully figure out why products that sprayed fine before are micro bubbling now (both clear and pigmented). I am wondering if a bad tip could cause this to occur.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I know how you feel Dean. I love the cure time and hardness, but the microfoaming really sucks causing rework which I can't allow. 

It happened so random with me as well. One piece was fine, the next would have spots like something trapped was escaping the paint film.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

When I first started playing around with these, the results were great once I got the bugs figured out on my AAA unit and replaced a few things. 

Went to do two furniture pieces and it all fell apart. I tried 3 different black basecoats in case of incompatibility, 2 top clear top coats. I finally ended up with black paint (Advance in the end) as the basecoat and ML Campbell Agualente as the clear top coat but had to apply the top coat with HVLP due to the microbubbles that would not go away. Which is too bad since I find I get a better finish with AAA due to less overspray that can settle out as you spray piece.

I am glad to hear that you have had issues with them as well. Sometimes it seems like everyone here has projects that turn out perfectly the first time, everytime. Glad to know I am not the only one.


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

i'm certainly no spray expert but i took a mini course on wb lacquers. they had us spray some Valspar conversion varnish on top of some WB wiping stain...the finish looked tremendous and it was tough as nails. we used an air assisted unit in their shop that was hooked up to a compressor. i think it was a binks gun.

will a retarder help eliminate the micro bubbles?

btw i'm going to fool around with some more valspar wb lacquer and see where it takes me. agualente is probably next after that. i won't be spraying many clear finishes (if any at all). 99% will be pigmented finishes.



http://www.valsparwood.com/product/details/Zenith_Waterborne_Conversion_Varnish.html


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I have used the valspar zenith line as well. I am comfortable using either one. ML Campbell Agualente is probably not as tough as Zenith precat, but I like the application a bit better (as long as it does not microbubble). If you let water sit on the Agualente, it will darken the stained wood for a while, it will darken the wood. Apparently the water can migrate through the finish. It does go away as it dries. But, to me, it indicates the finish may not have as tight of a film as some other finishes.

General Finishe EnduroVar is another good one, but quite pricey at 85/gallon, almost double the others.

I think you are on the right path with your new pump, just be aware that these finishes can be finicky. The industry is going to WB's eventually. Might as well figure it out now. It is not all doom and gloom, but you are going to probably have some projects that drive you crazy.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

So do you like it? Pics? Video?


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

I still haven't used it. i don't have any upcoming projects for that type of work. i'm looking for some used (free) cabinet doors to test some products out.i even put an ad in the local craigs list looking for cab doors but nothing yet.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Xmark said:


> I still haven't used it. i don't have any upcoming projects for that type of work. i'm looking for some used (free) cabinet doors to test some products out.i even put an ad in the local craigs list looking for cab doors but nothing yet.


Look for a cabinet door shop for mistake doors. One near me has a "bone pile" that are free to take. Mostly maple, oak and paint grade, but if you are lucky you can get some cherry as well sometimes.


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

DeanV said:


> Look for a cabinet door shop for mistake doors. One near me has a "bone pile" that are free to take. Mostly maple, oak and paint grade, but if you are lucky you can get some cherry as well sometimes.


i'd like to have a bunch of samples with various products to eventually show to customers. let them make a choice between wb lacquer,acrylics or modified oils.

i'm even going to spray on a couple coats of white primer and put a clear valspar wb conversion varnish on top. i've seen it before and it looks great with a very hard finish.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Xmark said:


> I still haven't used it. i don't have any upcoming projects for that type of work. i'm looking for some used (free) cabinet doors to test some products out.i even put an ad in the local craigs list looking for cab doors but nothing yet.


Aw man. At least take a pic of the shiny new sprayer and show it to us. This way we can all drool over it and talk about how sweet it would be to have one ourselves.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Aw man. At least take a pic of the shiny new sprayer and show it to us. This way we can all drool over it and talk about how sweet it would be to have one ourselves.


We are reconfiguring. Kremlins are getting mounted to the shop walls and 395's/440's getting booted to the field for '13. Can't wait!


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> We are reconfiguring. Kremlins are getting mounted to the shop walls and 395's/440's getting booted to the field for '13. Can't wait!


I have a bit more experimenting to do with the AAA, but I was about ready to pull the trigger on a second AAA for solid color stuff in shop. Not quite there yet. I got a bunch of new tips and parts in to try to trouble shoot the micro bubbles. If that works, then we will move in that direction as well.

Are you running the larger size Xmark got or the next size smaller?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

DeanV said:


> I have a bit more experimenting to do with the AAA, but I was about ready to pull the trigger on a second AAA for solid color stuff in shop. Not quite there yet. I got a bunch of new tips and parts in to try to trouble shoot the micro bubbles. If that works, then we will move in that direction as well.
> 
> Are you running the larger size Xmark got or the next size smaller?


After much (MUCH) experimentation, Todd and I have agreed upon the 15:1 eos for paint grade and the 10.14 for clears in the shop. The Multifinish 440 will be our primary field based cab grade rig. Thats what we are running with for '13.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Why the 440 instead of finish pro?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

DeanV said:


> Why the 440 instead of finish pro?


Honestly, we have done it all with the 395. Everything. Now its time to see how the 440mf measures up to it line by line. We are curious about it. Our 395 is now 3 years old. It needs a good going through, which we will give it, and a good wall of fame parking space at HQ.

I should add that we are supplementing (heavily) the shop configuration with hvlp technologies. The Apollo has been a huge hit in house and field, and we have another rig in the set up phase that we are quite excited about.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> The Apollo has been a huge hit in house and field, and we have another rig in the set up phase that we are quite excited about.


I assume its the five stage your testing Scott? I just looked up there offerings and it seems they also have a three & four stage.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> I assume its the five stage your testing Scott? I just looked up there offerings and it seems they also have a three & four stage.


5 is the bare minimum. If you saw the BM GE stuff we were running today, that was at 8.3, lightly reduced. 5 stage minimum. We are preparing a 6. The fans and transfer efficiency for non production work are remarkable.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> I assume its the five stage your testing Scott? I just looked up there offerings and it seems they also have a three & four stage.


Specifically, the 1050vr turbine with 7500 atomizer gun.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> 5 is the bare minimum. If you saw the BM GE stuff we were running today, that was at 8.3, lightly reduced. 5 stage minimum. We are preparing a 6. The fans and transfer efficiency for non production work are remarkable.


I agree that 5 is the bare minimum, and didn't know they had a six. Its been at least 15 years since I've used my HVLP's, and really haven't kept up with the technology.

I started out with one of Titans first offerings in the 90s, then quickly upgraded to a bigger three stage Graco for small trim/cabinet jobs. But was never really happy with production, and spraying latex. I just switched to AA and fine finish tips and never looked back. 

Appreciate all you do keeping me/us abreast of whats happening.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> Specifically, the 1050vr turbine with 7500 atomizer gun.


Thats the one I was just looking at. http://www.woodcraft.com/PRODUCT/20...ode=10INGOPB&gclid=CLK4qq_Ok7QCFSWoPAodYxcAXA


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> I agree that 5 is the bare minimum, and didn't know they had a six. Its been at least 15 years since I've used my HVLP's, and really haven't kept up with the technology.
> 
> I started out with one of Titans first offerings in the 90s, then quickly upgraded to a bigger three stage Graco for small trim/cabinet jobs. But was never really happy with production, and spraying latex. I just switched to AA and fine finish tips and never looked back.
> 
> Appreciate all you do keeping me/us abreast of whats happening.


We have a 3 stage that we run in some low viscosity products, but for across the board perform in any product performance, 5 stage. The gun is the difference from one to the next. 

The 6 stage system we are setting up is not an Apollo.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> The 6 stage system we are setting up is not an Apollo.


Titan 115 ?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> Titan 115 ?


Not exactly. We are fixing to explore their transfer pump that is compatible with their CS 75/95/105 and 115 turbines. Very early stage, we won't dig in until sometime in Jan.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

I just had that "whoa there" moment after I was just looking at Apollo prices. Look what PT has done to me!  

I really need to slow down on the new tools for awhile.


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

i have the old style sustainers. your stack is getting pretty high!

nice equipment!!


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> I just had that "whoa there" moment after I was just looking at Apollo prices. Look what PT has done to me!
> 
> I really need to slow down on the new tools for awhile.


I can't read TCR without considering buying something either. I have been eyeing a new hvlp for a while. Must resist the urge to buy..


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

yeah a 6 stage would be nice for small projects but spending 2 grand just for the convenience is too rich for my blood.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> Must resist the urge to buy..


Tell me about it! I've always made it a rule to not make any major tool purchases in the winter (unless previously budgeted), and caught myself pricing out the Apollos. Sheesh!


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Paul and Tommy

I have said it for a long time, if I had to pick one sprayer to live with for better or worse, all applications, shop or field, it would be a 395FP/440MF class for sure. 

I don't see a practical need for much bigger than that for 90% of what I plan to paint in my life. But the whole realm of smaller sprayed work where pump and fluid hose are overkill, is where there is some bank. 

The tools that will make you the most money have a higher cost of entry, which I consider to be a good thing.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Xmark said:


> i have the old style sustainers. your stack is getting pretty high!
> 
> nice equipment!!


Thats not quite everything. :whistling2:


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Tell me about it! I've always made it a rule to not make any major tool purchases in the winter (unless previously budgeted), and caught myself pricing out the Apollos. Sheesh!


Paul

Whatever you do...do NOT try an Apollo. Trust me. 

Some bananas just do not need to be peeled.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I have a rough figure of over 3k in sanders and extractors I want to buy, and another 1.5k for the hvlp. I promised myself I would buy the tools as I could price them in jobs, and have been able to stick to that so far for the most part. 

Big items like the 395 fp I allowed myself to pay over a year.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

That 395 is way too clean, Paul. :jester:


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

straight_lines said:


> I have a rough figure of over 3k in sanders and extractors I want to buy, and another 1.5k for the hvlp. I promised myself I would buy the tools as I could price them in jobs, and have been able to stick to that so far for the most part.
> 
> Big items like the 395 fp I allowed myself to pay over a year.


Just think of all the money those tools are not making you in the meantime.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

You are one to talk Scott. I haven't seen a pic of yours dirty ever. 

Mine is filthy right now.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> Just think of all the money those tools are not making you in the meantime.



That 395 has made me enough to not feel bad about the purchase one bit.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> That 395 is way too clean, Paul. :jester:


You should see it now. I think Ben would have a stroke.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

straight_lines said:


> You are one to talk Scott. I haven't seen a pic of yours dirty ever.
> 
> Mine is filthy right now.


Honestly, our 395 is tired. Needs some serious tlc. Alot of the old footage you see of it was before the cherry pop of long term field use. The compressor is tired right now.

We call her Gracie, and she don't owe no one nothing. She gets the special parking sticker at the shop wall of fame. 

I'll have to post a current picture.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> Big items like the 395 fp I allowed myself to pay over a year.


I put in an extra $2,000 in on the price of the job I wanted it for, and they accepted. The last price I had quoted to me local was $2,700, and thats near list. Dean hooked me up with a store by him for $2,000. Took a nice little road trip on a Saturday to pick it up. The kicker was that the $50.00 I saved of the lower sales tax paid my gas!


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Tommy

Todd was shooting everything in the world with Grand Entrance today. We were reminded of you coming running across the Vegas expo floor with the sample pieces you commandeered from the BM booth. Crazy to see the stuff go like that in one coat. We kept a gun pressurized overnight to shoot a couple more at it tomorrow. Not usually a high gloss fan, but so far, so good.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Great thread. I've used my 6 stage hvlp a lot since buying it last spring. At first I think I was using it just to justify buying it, but it keeps cominginI handy more and more. I haven't used the transfer pump yet, but am thinking that will help a lot on larger jobs. I have a couple good ones coming up in january where I'll try it out.


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