# I'm joining the Guild



## Wallpaper Gypsy (Feb 22, 2010)

It's about time I did this. I used to be a member of PDCA and learned some good things from that. I attended some trade shows back in the early 90's that gave me a lot of knowledge about the design and function of wallcoverings. I never joined the Guild and I don't really have a good explanation for that. 
I'm finding that ignorance is a major factor in the decline of wallcovering in the residential arena. It's because of all of this "faux" b.s.. There are a lot of really amazing artists that come up with beautiful amazing art works, that are manufactured on quality materials, and they can't sell them because homeowners have been hoodwinked into thinking that paying some self proclaimed faux "master" painter, know it all, with a wadded up newspaper and a sponge, more money than it cost to paint the whole of the house, just to "faux" one room. (that was a run on sentence but..)
I'm thinking that we need to be more aggressive and support some of the small time manufacturers that are printing out of there small shops and worrying just like we are.
Before all you painters get miffed, I'm a painter too. I just don't appreciate MOST faux. I find that the person who likes it most is the one who did it. The homeowners usually just go along with the idea that they payed an artist a lot of money to do it so it must be the greatest thing ever.

As well, I'm finding that poor manufacturing is sometimes a factor in the decline of the commercial market. 


Case in point... I did a movie theater last year where the owner had put out a large sum of money for a multicolored material with gold horizontal and vertical lines that made 8 inch squares. It must have stretched coming off the rollers because the horizontal line (which in a long movie theater corridor is the most focal) was wavy, and with gold colorant, it just leaped out like neon lighting down the wall. It was great material and a great design. But somebody hacked it at the plant.
So we stopped immediately and suggested to the owner that he re-order. Problem was, he had a grand opening in a few weeks and the manufacturer was not co-operative anyway. So, I found that the vertical line was straight and railroaded the whole job. It fixed the line... it was straight as an arrow, but the shading was horrible when we got to the lobby. 
I stopped several times hoping that the owner would pull the plug for his own good. I felt bad for him. We got paid... it was hard railroading 15 yds at a time and the seams looked fine. But in the end... I was unhappy having done it and I would imagine that the next time that theater gets redone. He'll put knockdown on the walls.

The reason I wrote this is because I KNOW that wallcovering is the way to go in many situations that end up getting textured or otherwise ruining a perfectly good substrate. 
Personally, I adopted ethics and principals concerning proper preparation with the forethought of removal... a long time ago, in the interest of my trade. But, there was a lot of ignorance among builders and "just hang it" contractors over the years that have left homeowners with damaged walls- well that and the fact that they don't realise that the best person to hire to remove wallpaper is a hanger!
We hangers NEED to aggressively mount marketing strategies that get results. 
As far as green tech go's, there are so many opportunities to manufacture "green materials." As well as recycle used vinyl. The stupid thing about the recycling issue though is that... because of the LEED program, you actually have to pay to ship and pay a manufacturer money to recycle a hotel that get's stripped because they are so disorganized and ill prepared for it all to happen. Only the architects and owners get to write money off of their taxes for participating. The only benefit to a contractor is in advertising that you follow LEED standards. That's an idea that doesn't work for independent contractors.

Well, pardon my rant. Any good comments would be welcomed.

Sam Kendrick


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

What exactly was your point? :blink::001_huh::001_huh:


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## Wallpaper Gypsy (Feb 22, 2010)

*ha!*

I didn't mean to be confusing. I'm trying to generate some discussion on the different reasons that the wallcovering industry is in decline. I'm hoping by joining the NGPP that I can become an active part the solution and I was hoping to get some opinions on it.


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## Wallpaper Gypsy (Feb 22, 2010)

*further...*

I would think this forum a good place to do that. I've read through the wallcovering section of this forum and I've seen some of the issues touched upon but not really thought out. Since wallcovering is the most independent trade in construction, it's difficult to nail some of them down.
When I talk to paint store reps that I've known for years, that used to make great money supplying wallcovering and materials, they say it's not looking good. Last year was a bad year for a lot of folks but the amount of wallcovering that was "backed out" of plans for buildings that had initially included it is worthy of making one ask what the various reasons are.


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## Wallpaper Gypsy (Feb 22, 2010)

*Huh...*

I guess no one here is concerned about the future market for wallcovering.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Well if you are a hanger then by all means join the guild, it is a vast network of people and knowledge.I am not sure you are going to get a concise answer as to why paper is declining, it has been for a very long time.I believe a lot of it is the crap that was being turned out by a lot of manufacturers. Ten years ago I was hanging every day, last year I did 9 wall paper installs , it just sucks.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

Where is Bill!?
He will hook you up. 
I hear there is a special place where all they talk about is wallpaper.


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## Wallpaper Gypsy (Feb 22, 2010)

*I appreciate your reply*

I'm waiting on the packet to get here in the mail so I can join.
I may have over written my initial post but I stand behind it. I agree with the manufacturer problem. Contract wallcovering manufacturers have never been very concerned about how the jobs turn out that they produce. 
There are some really great small time manufacturers out there that are making some really nice looking stuff.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

I've been busy.

Too much in that first post to answer to.

One thing I can say about the decline of the industry. The NGPP has taken it upon themselves to promote the use of wallpaper through many of it's public offerings. But we on the new Website Committee are starting to question WHY is that OUR responsibility. Shan't that be something the INDUSTRY does, namely the WA (Wallcovering Association) ? 

This is a tender subject to many, and a point of contention for many. 

But, when the new website is launched, we will take a position of being a benefit and a resource to our MEMBERS. We do not have the money or the time to fix the damage the industry has done. It's time the manufacturers pleaded mea culpa and fixed what they done. 

But anyway, your voice will be welcomed. We are in need of people to gently still the pot. The CO chapter is new and I've talked to a few of it's members. They seem like good people. 


I'll be looking for your name on the membership rolls, Sam. If you have trouble with the web site or our Wallpaper Forum (aka, The Lounge) let me know. We just upgraded to vBulletin 4 and are have some little issues.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

and are have some little issues.:laughing:


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

there are millions of illegal aliens willing to hang paper for little compensation. they do good work. think of them as a big box store of tradesmen. 

i think that joining a guild is a waste of money and to a lesser degree time.

these guilds would be better served by guarding the borders.


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## Woody (Jan 7, 2010)

high fibre said:


> there are millions of illegal aliens willing to hang paper for little compensation. they do good work. think of them as a big box store of tradesmen.
> 
> i think that joining a guild is a waste of money and to a lesser degree time.
> 
> these guilds would be better served by guarding the borders.


"I'm in love with you....will you marry me...lol"


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

high fibre said:


> there are millions of illegal aliens willing to hang paper for little compensation. *they do good work*.


No, they don't. :no:


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

......I stopped reading at "Faux b.s.".............


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## Woody (Jan 7, 2010)

I appreciate the thread...but NOBODY cares about marketing, social conections..etc.. 
"They only care about price"
When WE have a President ..WHO strangles free markets..WE suffer.
F-ck it.. I'm tired "Puff.. Puff"


Later..
Stay frosty


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## Wallpaper Gypsy (Feb 22, 2010)

WisePainter said:


> ......I stopped reading at "Faux b.s.".............



Too bad you didn't get to the part that said, "I find that the person who likes it most is the one who did it."


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

high fibre said:


> there are millions of illegal aliens willing to hang paper for little compensation. they do good work. think of them as a big box store of tradesmen.
> 
> i think that joining a guild is a waste of money and to a lesser degree time.
> 
> these guilds would be better served by guarding the borders.


Really? I have never seen even one.:blink:


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

there are armies of illegal aliens that hang paper, and hang it "good". (deny this all you want, but its done every day)

unfortunately some trades have become more of a full blown service industry than a craft. (painters, paper hangers, drywall, tile setters, roofers, landscapers)

serve them and serve them well.

people can attempt to elevate the way painters are percieved, good luck with that.


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## Woody (Jan 7, 2010)

....Some of these guy's think "there going to change the image" HighFiber.
Go by ANY "REAL" Commercial job at 2am, you will find then hanging paper, and painting the drywall....Then come back at 2pm, and there still there....

Illegalls are working for $5 per hr.... "just to stay here, until the economy picks up"..THEN..They will raise there hour rate to $12-$15 again.
They stick together in houses with low rent, and 20 people(if not more)per house, when the economy "gets bad"....like now.

This "world economy, NAFTA, Everyones a winner, ...BS, can "go to he!!".


Ra.....rA

Stay Frosty


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## Wallpaper Gypsy (Feb 22, 2010)

high fibre said:


> there are millions of illegal aliens willing to hang paper for little compensation. they do good work. think of them as a big box store of tradesmen.
> 
> "they'll have this place sheet rocked in about an hour."


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

So are you guys talking about vinyl jockeys or wallpaper installers?

If you think vinyl jockeys can install an untrimmed hand print, then I guess you also think Behr is paint. 

But I do appreciate how ignorance can drive an opinion.

BTW, I assume you learned all your wallpaper knowledge from one Steve Stepanski :thumbsup:


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

its amazing how much of a demand there is for untrimmed handprint.

dig a little deeper.


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## Woody (Jan 7, 2010)

daArch said:


> So are you guys talking about vinyl jockeys or wallpaper installers?
> 
> If you think vinyl jockeys can install an untrimmed hand print, then I guess you also think Behr is paint.
> 
> ...


You can even "throw in, a couple of Arch ways"...Arch. 

I remember getting a call from Las Vegas on the new "Taj-mahal" ceiling....and got beat out by some "border crossers"(no pun intendeed) from mexifornia... They were 1/2 the cost...and just as good.


Stay Frosty....Amigo


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

arch, there is a lot of paper on your site that can be hung by illegals.

illegals can easly paint the homes ive painted, and many of them can airbrush circles around me, and handpainted signs also.

i can try to sell the homeowners on my straight teeth, and the fact ive lived here for ever i guess.


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

there are hacks in guilds and associations, there not the only place to look for craftsmen.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

high fibre said:


> its amazing how much of a demand there is for untrimmed handprint.
> 
> dig a little deeper.



Well, sorry if that's my clientèle. The high end market is what keeps many of us working. 

Again, I do appreciate how ignorance can drive an opinion. John, seriously you ARE speaking from ignorance. You do not know the market in which I ply my trade.

I have never gotten into the bottom feeder market of commercial work, but I have seen the cut throat approach of that segment. One turd that keeps surfacing on some forums travels from motel to motel, sleeps in a camper in the parking lot, prolly bathes in the near by river, and claims to install at $1.68/yd. He joined the NGPP for about a year, stunk up the place pretty bad. He quit because he thought through Guild membership, more jobs would come his way. He never gave of himself, but expected a lot in return. He didn't understand.

The NGPP is not for the illegals. The NGPP will not take it upon itself to change the industry. We are a collection of like minded craftsmen and women who are interesting in bettering ourselves by the exchange of knowledge. 

You guys are on the outside looking in through frosted windows seeing only shadows that you interpret in your own way. 

And with that I will now sit back and laugh at your misconceptions. 

Ta ta.


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## Woody (Jan 7, 2010)

daArch said:


> Well, sorry if that's my clientèle. The high end market is what keeps many of us working.
> 
> Again, I do appreciate how ignorance can drive an opinion. John, seriously you ARE speaking from ignorance. You do not know the market in which I ply my trade.
> 
> ...


If thats YOU..in the Avatar..... "I would RUN to the border to find help"

....You ,and your pipe smoking buddies, are sitting around "drinking tea", and lying to each other...
Ta...tA Ra...rA Ha...hA


Stay Frosty...Legend


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

gee i wish i could do high end work.

please ban this mod.


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## Wallpaper Gypsy (Feb 22, 2010)

In all fairness Woody, your avatar may explain a lot. You can bring a monkey over the border, but you can't teach him how to paint.


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## Woody (Jan 7, 2010)

samk069 said:


> In all fairness Woody, your avatar may explain a lot. You can bring a monkey over the border, but you can't teach him how to paint.


My avatar is Barry's early days in Kenya...

If you read the last few post's ,*****..... WE disagree....SO why post with another comment ?
Unless you like sticking your nose in for fun...then its OK

RA....rA


Stay Frosty


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## Woody (Jan 7, 2010)

high fibre said:


> gee i wish i could do high end work.
> 
> please ban this mod.


....I carried this to far "My Bad"


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## Wallpaper Gypsy (Feb 22, 2010)

*no sweat man...*

and yeah... I was just having fun


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

yeah arch i guess you are right.

someones legal status is what dictates whther they are a good wallpaper installer, without citizenship, there is no craftsmanship.

it was ignorant of me to think otherwise.


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## Woody (Jan 7, 2010)

high fibre said:


> yeah arch i guess you are right.
> 
> someones legal status is what dictates whther they are a good wallpaper installer, without citizenship, there is no craftsmanship.
> 
> it was ignorant of me to think otherwise.


I don't think...He wants to play anymore...


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## Wallpaper Gypsy (Feb 22, 2010)

high fibre said:


> yeah arch i guess you are right.
> 
> someones legal status is what dictates whther they are a good wallpaper installer, without citizenship, there is no craftsmanship.
> 
> it was ignorant of me to think otherwise.


Well... the invasion started with roofing. Wallpaper/wallcovering was the last to go.


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

yeah, the senior citizens wont really feel the impact as much, so they are oblivious to it.


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## Woody (Jan 7, 2010)

I spent my BBB dues...on a massage, and the census guy asked "If I was a legal" We got crack heads cleaning windshields, and Grandma's going to be 500 billion short.... 
Did you say; "that was untrimmed handprint ?"


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