# Cabinet painting with Scuff-x



## fromthenorthwest

I have used Scuff-X on a few trim packs now and have been impressed with it. I was thinking about trying it on some cabinets, as I am looking for a good water-based cabinet finish. Anyone tried it?


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## Woodco

yup. Works great.


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## cocomonkeynuts

fromthenorthwest said:


> I have used Scuff-X on a few trim packs now and have been impressed with it. I was thinking about trying it on some cabinets, as I am looking for a good water-based cabinet finish. Anyone tried it?



try some of the 1wb.200 undercoater too for those trim packs :wink:


i know several people here are using it for this already but only issue with scuffx its not officially endorsed by bm for cabinets so sort of use at your own risk.


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## Mr Smith

cocomonkeynuts said:


> try some of the 1wb.200 undercoater too for those trim packs :wink:
> 
> 
> i know several people here are using it for this already but only issue with scuffx its not officially endorsed by bm for cabinets so sort of use at your own risk.


When is BM going to step up and make a great WB lacquer?


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## cocomonkeynuts

Mr Smith said:


> When is BM going to step up and make a great WB lacquer?



the waterborne duralaq and megavar are pretty good and tintable on gennex or universal colorant, can be post catalyzed with aziridine. last I heard though there was some talk about licensing some tech from some European companies.


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## Damon T

Woodco said:


> yup. Works great.


Yep is our main cabinet paint now. Satin although just finished a job we matched Scuff X to their low luster trim and used the eggshell. Still passed the fingernail tests etc. Wouldn’t normally use eggshell for cabinets but these were just bathroom vanities


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## mug

Damon T said:


> Woodco said:
> 
> 
> 
> yup. Works great.
> 
> 
> 
> Yep is our main cabinet paint now. Satin although just finished a job we matched Scuff X to their low luster trim and used the eggshell. Still passed the fingernail tests etc. Wouldn’t normally use eggshell for cabinets but these were just bathroom
> 
> 
> Are you priming with BIN on cabinets? Still concerned about hand oils; any feedback on that yet?
Click to expand...


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## Mr Smith

mug said:


> Damon T said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yep is our main cabinet paint now. Satin although just finished a job we matched Scuff X to their low luster trim and used the eggshell. Still passed the fingernail tests etc. Wouldn’t normally use eggshell for cabinets but these were just bathroom
> 
> 
> Are you priming with BIN on cabinets? Still concerned about hand oils; any feedback on that yet?
> 
> 
> 
> We still have contractors in here using PPG Breakthrough for cabinets. That coating has the same issues with hand oils as Scuff-X, which is probably a step up from BT. Repaint Florida has been using BT for at least 5 years. He'd be the expert on hand oils. Worst case scenario is you have to re-shoot a few doors around the sink.
> 
> I have seen some cabinets sprayed with Scuff-X and they look and feel phenomenal. ----Very slick and hard as a rock. It actually looks better than Advance imo.
Click to expand...


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## cocomonkeynuts

Here is a patent listing for scuffx. pretty long read.
https://patents.google.com/patent/WO2017192982A1/en


also talks about testing methodology and why #scrubs is a usless measurement.


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## Repaint Florida

Mr Smith said:


> mug said:
> 
> 
> 
> We still have contractors in here using PPG Breakthrough for cabinets. That coating has the same issues with hand oils as Scuff-X, which is probably a step up from BT. Repaint Florida has been using BT for at least 5 years. He'd be the expert on hand oils. Worst case scenario is you have to re-shoot a few doors around the sink.
> 
> I have seen some cabinets sprayed with Scuff-X and they look and feel phenomenal. ----Very slick and hard as a rock. It actually looks better than Advance imo.
> 
> 
> 
> Mr Smith your making me feel old, here's my first post on using breakthrough 1/25/15
> https://www.painttalk.com/f2/kitchen-cabinet-painting-orlando-fl-34377/
> 
> BTW it's had 63,744 views , show how good PT is, just need more to like it
> 
> 
> We've painted hundreds of cabinets since then , last year we painted over 120 kitchen and we're on track to do more this year and only been called back once & that was because of the counter top guy.
> 
> I hear people say different thing but for us it works. i've also had about 8 paint companies call me about breakthrough in different states and it's working for them. Once they learned how to use it.
> 
> Some of them even called when they were in town with family visiting Disney and stop by my shop for a visit.
> 
> Been wanting to try Scuff-X and think i will but doubt i'll change my system
Click to expand...


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## Woodco

Scuff-x doesnt have quite as fast as a cure time breakthrough has, I will say that. I think Durapoxy actually beats Scuffx in that respect too, but its still pretty darn fast. 

I redid a few peices of furniture of my own with scuff X, in black a few weeks ago. The stereo sitting on my tv stand I redid still kind of sticks when moved, but it doesnt mess up the paint job. My coasters kind of stick on m coffee table , but once again, it doesnt leave a mark...


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## DeanV

In dark colors, we have had issues with cabinet doors in scuff-x, especially in humid weather. It takes forever to dry enough to flip doors for the back side of cabinets or it sticks. We either need to switch to a vertical system that allows both sides to dry or maybe really thin coats. We like it in the pastel base and no issues there. Other people have not had this issue supposedly, but we have a couple times.


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## Woodco

Yeah, I guess thats kind of common problem with most dark colored paints though.


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## finishesbykevyn

Ya ive heard that dark colours are even hard in the lacquers..which makes me want to get that paint rack system just for that reason. I usually paint the backs first so if there are any marks left from the racks, it will be on the back.
The Scuffx may dry pretty hard and fast, but it just doesn't flow out like the Advance. I have sprayed it on some fireplaces and stair runners with great success. Fantastic product really. However if your brushing and rolling anything, it definitely wont flow out as nice as the Advance..
And like Coco says, its not designed for cabinets. Only time will tell i guess..




DeanV said:


> In dark colors, we have had issues with cabinet doors in scuff-x, especially in humid weather. It takes forever to dry enough to flip doors for the back side of cabinets or it sticks. We either need to switch to a vertical system that allows both sides to dry or maybe really thin coats. We like it in the pastel base and no issues there. Other people have not had this issue supposedly, but we have a couple times.


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## Woodco

I've had very good luck with scuff-x flowing out. Even without an extender, but I usually put some extender in. No, its not as good as advance but damn close.

The way I see it is, the thinner the paint, the less brush and roller marks stand out. Advance is thin. Scuff x is not so thin, but with some extender and a splash of water, its thin enough to compete with advance.


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## Rbriggs82

I can spray two coats of Breakthrough in black one day, then transport and hang them the next without issue. Just sayin :whistling2:

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## mug

Rbriggs82 said:


> I can spray two coats of Breakthrough in black one day, then transport and hang them the next without issue. Just sayin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


My local PPG store doesn't stock the good Breakthrough and they won't order it either. Tennessee in case you are wondering.


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## Rbriggs82

mug said:


> My local PPG store doesn't stock the good Breakthrough and they won't order it either. Tennessee in case you are wondering.


That's rediculious I can understand if you're in a state that doesn't allow the good stuff but there's absolutely no reason not to stock it in Tennessee. 

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## Woodco

I cant get it in Austin either. Pretty stupid considering how much oil base they still use on trim. Im talking pro mar 400 oil base too, not as in 'quality oil base' Im talking about one coat of 'painters edge' not primed or backrolled, and promar 400 oil sprayed like dogsh**. It never ceases to amaze me.


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## Repaint Florida

i have a great PPG store, they even dropped price $10 a gallon


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## Woodco

Repaint Florida said:


> i have a great PPG store, they even dropped price $10 a gallon


I HAD a great PPG rep. He moved away, and his successor treated me well, then he moved away, and the new guy jacked up my prices and doesnt give a damn about me. They dont see my face (or money) too much anymore....


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## juanvaldez

Just finished a kitchen cabinet painting job with first time use of Scuff X satin ‘decorators white’

In the past we’ve used S-W PC or Pro Ind MSA and occasionally Emerald trim urethane. 

Experience was great I must say!
Dries fast! Sprays and levels out great! Recoat times great! Hardness, smoothness like butter, and scratch ability are all great! Totally sold on it for cabinets and probably trim and doors too! We’ll see, I’ve already told my S-W rep and he knows they are losing that type of paint market quickly to BM ScuffX. 





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## Rbriggs82

juanvaldez said:


> Just finished a kitchen cabinet painting job with first time use of Scuff X satin ‘decorators white’
> 
> In the past we’ve used S-W PC or Pro Ind MSA and occasionally Emerald trim urethane.
> 
> Experience was great I must say!
> Dries fast! Sprays and levels out great! Recoat times great! Hardness, smoothness like butter, and scratch ability are all great! Totally sold on it for cabinets and probably trim and doors too! We’ll see, I’ve already told my S-W rep and he knows they are losing that type of paint market quickly to BM ScuffX.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Be very careful with Pro Industrial MSA I used it on 4 or five sets 3-4 yrs ago and they haven't stood up to hand oils, I've had to redo three of them so far. That's why I'm leary with Scuffx for cabinets. I've learned my lesson with MSA and if the paint doesn't say for cabinets on the Pds I don't think using it is worth taking the risk of failure. 

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## juanvaldez

Exactly what happens when you say the paint doesn’t stand up to hand oils?


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## Rbriggs82

juanvaldez said:


> Exactly what happens when you say the paint doesn’t stand up to hand oils?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The doors that are most commonly used will get dirty looking around the knobs/handles. That dirt won't clean off and will feel sticky in those areas, eventually the paint will break down to the point where it'll easily scratch off in those spots too. You'll also see it happen on the top edge of the bottom doors, especially the two under the sink, and the lower corners on the top doors where people grab them without using the handles.

It's not a matter of if it'll happen its a matter of when and getting that call sucks. I have a set to redo in October but luckily I'm booked to do other work in the house at the same time. Fixing it isn't too bad, just pull all the doors and drawers, clean them, and spray a coat of a paint rated for cabinets. As long as the color and sheen is a good match you shouldn't have to worry about the frames because they don't get handled like the doors.

Again, that's my fear with Scuffx. It wasn't made for cabinets nor does it say it was in the Pds which leads me to believe there's a good chance it won't stand the test of time. Plus it hasn't been out long enough to see what how they'll hold up long term. 

It's not a guarantee that Scuffx will fail, I'm just gun shy and don't think it's worth taking the risk. 

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## juanvaldez

Thanks that’s what I thought it meant. Seen it on other jobs, in fact I have a pair of stair rails that we will be doing that it’s happening to. Hopefully I don’t get the call back but if so I’ll keep that in mind. I’ve actually seen that pretty often on different places. Mainly stairs and cabs. 


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## Mr Smith

juanvaldez said:


> Thanks that’s what I thought it meant. Seen it on other jobs, in fact I have a pair of stair rails that we will be doing that it’s happening to. Hopefully I don’t get the call back but if so I’ll keep that in mind. I’ve actually seen that pretty often on different places. Mainly stairs and cabs.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If used on railings, I'd clear coat it with a water-based poly.


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## jr.sr. painting

Just recoated sone ceilings and trim I did with scuff x a few weeks ago. I sanded with 220 before the final and could not believe how hard the finish had gotten. It was removing grit and not doing much to the finish. I see no need for a clear coat over scuff x. Also Is probably a great cabinet paint. Look at the junk that’s “cabinet paint “ now and it blows cough cough pro classic latex 


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## Mr Smith

jr.sr. painting said:


> Just recoated sone ceilings and trim I did with scuff x a few weeks ago. I sanded with 220 before the final and could not believe how hard the finish had gotten. It was removing grit and not doing much to the finish. I see no need for a clear coat over scuff x. Also Is probably a great cabinet paint. Look at the junk that’s “cabinet paint “ now and it blows cough cough pro classic latex
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The hardness of Scuff-X has never been disputed. Chemical resistance, specifically hand oil resistance, is certainly questionable.

It was made to resist walk by scuffing, and not to be handled daily like a Kitchen cabinet door or drawer.


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## juanvaldez

Scuff x update from a friend:

They specialize in cabinet refinishing only. Recently they switched to scuff x on cabinets. They’ve used it on a handful of jobs now and they bought a fiver tinted white to have at their shop to use on incoming jobs. Apparently with their latest job, the scuff x fish eyed all over lay flat doors. Same rig, same process, same everything as always but the paint fish eyed. No contamination on doors. No solvent in rig. A typical job. After cleaning it off They went and bought a couple new gallons. Everything worked well at that point. So, basically something was wrong with the paint, according to them......

Next , they had a completely finished cabinet kitchen job painted with scuff x, and the homeowner decided they didn’t like the door design/type. So they had to get new different doors, paint them with the same scuff x color and install. Well, when they installed, they noticed the units were a bit off white/yellowed compared to the freshly painted doors, again with the same scuff x. They ended up having to re spray the units with the new paint used on new doors so it would match. 
So, now it appears scuff x yellows as well. 
Question to the Scuff X users- 
Have you noticed scuff x yellowing or have you had a bad batch of scuff x do weird things like fish eye?

I haven’t used it enough to tell myself but this makes me a bit nervous on future use.










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## cocomonkeynuts

juanvaldez said:


> Scuff x update from a friend:
> 
> They specialize in cabinet refinishing only. Recently they switched to scuff x on cabinets. They’ve used it on a handful of jobs now and they bought a fiver tinted white to have at their shop to use on incoming jobs. Apparently with their latest job, the scuff x fish eyed all over lay flat doors. Same rig, same process, same everything as always but the paint fish eyed. No contamination on doors. No solvent in rig. A typical job. After cleaning it off They went and bought a couple new gallons. Everything worked well at that point. So, basically something was wrong with the paint, according to them......
> 
> Next , they had a completely finished cabinet kitchen job painted with scuff x, and the homeowner decided they didn’t like the door design/type. So they had to get new different doors, paint them with the same scuff x color and install. Well, when they installed, they noticed the units were a bit off white/yellowed compared to the freshly painted doors, again with the same scuff x. They ended up having to re spray the units with the new paint used on new doors so it would match.
> So, now it appears scuff x yellows as well.
> Question to the Scuff X users-
> Have you noticed scuff x yellowing or have you had a bad batch of scuff x do weird things like fish eye?
> 
> I haven’t used it enough to tell myself but this makes me a bit nervous on future use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



97/100 its user application or environmental, virtually no chance they had a bad bucket but no one else reported it; That said I have seen another product fisheye from BM recently that I suspect is a bad batch... not ready to release that info yet though. Its not unheard of but I would be surprised to hear an issue with scuffx. Its a really high volume paint so chances are that bad batches get noticed very quickly.


Have not heard of it yellowing its 100% proprietary wax modified acrylic. more likely a different batch, different store, or same store mistinted...




BTW pretty ballsy of your friend to use a product exclusively for a business that is outside of its specified use.


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## juanvaldez

I agree about the contamination issue, however, BM wouldn’t necessarily be partial to a bad batch now and then. Things happen. And I like this product and BM paints so I’m not trying to derail them, just passing on info. On this forum I’ve stated personal problems with S-W paints and others have had similar problems with BM too. So, and again, it’s second hand info, I’m sure we can all agree that most likely there is some sort of contamination present, but possibly just possibly they got a bad batch. I don’t know....

Not sure about it being ballsy though. A lot of painters, even here in paint talk, have switched to scuff x or have tread lightly with it. Pros and cons right? 
Not sure about you but I’m always on the lookout for a product that gives me more. Too many options isn’t always a good thing, imo. 


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## Mr Smith

juanvaldez said:


> I agree about the contamination issue, however, BM wouldn’t necessarily be partial to a bad batch now and then. Things happen. And I like this product and BM paints so I’m not trying to derail them, just passing on info. On this forum I’ve stated personal problems with S-W paints and others have had similar problems with BM too. So, and again, it’s second hand info, I’m sure we can all agree that most likely there is some sort of contamination present, but possibly just possibly they got a bad batch. I don’t know....
> 
> Not sure about it being ballsy though. A lot of painters, even here in paint talk, have switched to scuff x or have tread lightly with it. Pros and cons right?
> Not sure about you but I’m always on the lookout for a product that gives me more. Too many options isn’t always a good thing, imo.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There are much better options, so why take a chance on a paint that is not spec'd for cabinets?

InslX Cabinet Coat, Sayerlak, and some of the Italian 1K and 2k poly's are great alternatives. C2 also has a nice poly-acrylic cabinet paint. (manufactured by PPG and owned by TCA).


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## celicaxx

cocomonkeynuts said:


> 97/100 its user application or environmental, virtually no chance they had a bad bucket but no one else reported it; That said I have seen another product fisheye from BM recently that I suspect is a bad batch... not ready to release that info yet though. Its not unheard of but I would be surprised to hear an issue with scuffx. Its a really high volume paint so chances are that bad batches get noticed very quickly.
> 
> 
> Have not heard of it yellowing its 100% proprietary wax modified acrylic. more likely a different batch, different store, or same store mistinted...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW pretty ballsy of your friend to use a product exclusively for a business that is outside of its specified use.


My local Sherwin store recommended Porch and Floor enamel for doors as a door shop used it sprayed on doors.


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## Woodco

Mr Smith said:


> There are much better options, so why take a chance on a paint that is not spec'd for cabinets?
> 
> InslX Cabinet Coat, Sayerlak, and some of the Italian 1K and 2k poly's are great alternatives. C2 also has a nice poly-acrylic cabinet paint. (manufactured by PPG and owned by TCA).


I will say that scuff-x goes on and looks better than cabinet coat. Long term durability is another story, but as far as short term goes, scuff-x beats CC.


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## Woodco

Mr Smith said:


> There are much better options, so why take a chance on a paint that is not spec'd for cabinets?
> 
> InslX Cabinet Coat, Sayerlak, and some of the Italian 1K and 2k poly's are great alternatives. C2 also has a nice poly-acrylic cabinet paint. (manufactured by PPG and owned by TCA).


I will say that scuff-x goes on and looks better than cabinet coat. Long term durability is another story, but as far as short term goes, scuff-x beats CC.

I dont know where to find any of the other products you suggested... They aint worth a sh** to me, if They arent available....


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## cocomonkeynuts

celicaxx said:


> My local Sherwin store recommended Porch and Floor enamel for doors as a door shop used it sprayed on doors.



That's really bizarre considering the myriad of specialty trim enamels SW products. Have also seen plenty of SW porch & floor speced for exterior wood trim. Gets hard, brittle and eventually fails big time.


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## STAR

I had fish eyes/craters with scuffx when painting some flat panel doors.
I used stix primer and as soon as I sprayed the scuffx I started to see the blemishes. It was only noticeable on the doors as I also sprayed baseboards, casings, frames etc.

I have since switched primers and everything is fine now. Another time I primed an interior metal door with stix and sprayed x again...same scenario. Are they not compatible? 

Maybe I had a bad batch as well? These two examples were 6 months apart.


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## Eric Brancard

STAR said:


> I had fish eyes/craters with scuffx when painting some flat panel doors.
> I used stix primer and as soon as I sprayed the scuffx I started to see the blemishes. It was only noticeable on the doors as I also sprayed baseboards, casings, frames etc.
> 
> I have since switched primers and everything is fine now. Another time I primed an interior metal door with stix and sprayed x again...same scenario. Are they not compatible?
> 
> Maybe I had a bad batch as well? These two examples were 6 months apart.


Scuff-X doesn't seem to like Tower Tech 2 caulk either. Both the TT2 and Stix are acrylic urethane.


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## Woodco

STAR said:


> I had fish eyes/craters with scuffx when painting some flat panel doors.
> I used stix primer and as soon as I sprayed the scuffx I started to see the blemishes. It was only noticeable on the doors as I also sprayed baseboards, casings, frames etc.
> 
> I have since switched primers and everything is fine now. Another time I primed an interior metal door with stix and sprayed x again...same scenario. Are they not compatible?
> 
> Maybe I had a bad batch as well? These two examples were 6 months apart.


I had a few fisheyes with cabinet coat over stix. Not a whole lot of them, though.


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## gregplus

*hi*

Scuff-X levels better and does not pick dirt easy, however, adhesion and durability of the coat BT wins for sure!


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## juanvaldez

juanvaldez said:


> Scuff x update from a friend:
> 
> They specialize in cabinet refinishing only. Recently they switched to scuff x on cabinets. They’ve used it on a handful of jobs now and they bought a fiver tinted white to have at their shop to use on incoming jobs. Apparently with their latest job, the scuff x fish eyed all over lay flat doors. Same rig, same process, same everything as always but the paint fish eyed. No contamination on doors. No solvent in rig. A typical job. After cleaning it off They went and bought a couple new gallons. Everything worked well at that point. So, basically something was wrong with the paint, according to them......
> 
> Next , they had a completely finished cabinet kitchen job painted with scuff x, and the homeowner decided they didn’t like the door design/type. So they had to get new different doors, paint them with the same scuff x color and install. Well, when they installed, they noticed the units were a bit off white/yellowed compared to the freshly painted doors, again with the same scuff x. They ended up having to re spray the units with the new paint used on new doors so it would match.
> So, now it appears scuff x yellows as well.
> Question to the Scuff X users-
> Have you noticed scuff x yellowing or have you had a bad batch of scuff x do weird things like fish eye?
> 
> I haven’t used it enough to tell myself but this makes me a bit nervous on future use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Update on this post:
The store that sold this paint said it was a bad batch per BM and refunded and replaced the bad paint with new paint. I guess other painters had the same fisheye and yellowing issues as they had. 

So there you have it! BM isn’t perfect after all, lol and every now and then they are making a bad batch just like the other companies.



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## finishesbykevyn

S#*t happens.



juanvaldez said:


> Update on this post:
> The store that sold this paint said it was a bad batch per BM and refunded and replaced the bad paint with new paint. I guess other painters had the same fisheye and yellowing issues as they had.
> 
> So there you have it! BM isn’t perfect after all, lol and every now and then they are making a bad batch just like the other companies.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cocomonkeynuts

juanvaldez said:


> Update on this post:
> The store that sold this paint said it was a bad batch per BM and refunded and replaced the bad paint with new paint. I guess other painters had the same fisheye and yellowing issues as they had.
> 
> So there you have it! BM isn’t perfect after all, lol and every now and then they are making a bad batch just like the other companies.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I had some bad cabinetcoat and stays clear batches make it to my store this year too. The worst part is I don't usually see a recall notice I usually find out after the fact there was bad batches.


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## juanvaldez

cocomonkeynuts said:


> I had some bad cabinetcoat and stays clear batches make it to my store this year too. The worst part is I don't usually see a recall notice I usually find out after the fact there was bad batches.




Exactly. After all of the re-sanding spraying and install was done too!


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## fromthenorthwest

*Duralaq with airlesss*



cocomonkeynuts said:


> try some of the 1wb.200 undercoater too for those trim packs :wink:
> 
> 
> i know several people here are using it for this already but only issue with scuffx its not officially endorsed by bm for cabinets so sort of use at your own risk.


cocomonkeynuts, do you shoot that duralaq with an airless or hvlp? I've been using my titan 440 with 310 FF for normal paints with good results, but haven't tried one of the water-based lacquers yet.


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## cocomonkeynuts

fromthenorthwest said:


> cocomonkeynuts, do you shoot that duralaq with an airless or hvlp? I've been using my titan 440 with 310 FF for normal paints with good results, but haven't tried one of the water-based lacquers yet.



Have sprayed with both but usually airless. 212/312fflp on a 395 seems to be the ticket for my customers using it. Dont try to catch any drips or runs with a brush it dries too fast! They are spraying CC with the same tip size.


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## fromthenorthwest

Thanks! One of the my stores here carries the durulaq, thinking about trying it out on an upcoming cabinet job


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## juanvaldez

So a friend had a run in w fisheyes using scuff x again Spraying. (Store person said that using water to thin would do that, and to not use water to thin.) He didn’t have an answer as to what to use to thin but said something that the chemicals in the paint didn’t like water. Also said there have been some bad batches again. Got a new gallon and all was fine. 

What else do you use to thin a water based product like scuff x?


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## cocomonkeynuts

Delete


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## stoyania

STAR said:


> I had fish eyes/craters with scuffx when painting some flat panel doors.
> I used stix primer and as soon as I sprayed the scuffx I started to see the blemishes. It was only noticeable on the doors as I also sprayed baseboards, casings, frames etc.
> 
> I have since switched primers and everything is fine now. Another time I primed an interior metal door with stix and sprayed x again...same scenario. Are they not compatible?
> 
> Maybe I had a bad batch as well? These two examples were 6 months apart.


 -----
what primer did you switch to?


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## STAR

stoyania said:


> -----
> what primer did you switch to?


Duralaq


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## PPD

Mr Smith said:


> When is BM going to step up and make a great WB lacquer?




Just shot some target coatings WB pigmented lacquer (used em6500 + 4% cross-linker) a few weeks ago & was really impressed! Would obviously love a local HQ option vs having to order n wait for shipping but will definitely keep it as an option for future! 

Gunna order some Renner soon & see how it compares.


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## sayn3ver

Mind me asking what you primed with under the em6500? Have you used it a couple times and have you had any issues with fine spider web/mud cracking? 






PPD said:


> Just shot some target coatings WB pigmented lacquer (used em6500 + 4% cross-linker) a few weeks ago & was really impressed! Would obviously love a local HQ option vs having to order n wait for shipping but will definitely keep it as an option for future!
> 
> Gunna order some Renner soon & see how it compares.


----------



## PPD

sayn3ver said:


> Mind me asking what you primed with under the em6500? Have you used it a couple times and have you had any issues with fine spider web/mud cracking?



I went with Gripper for the primer- worked great. 

Have only used it twice so far, but 2nd time was while my sprayer was being serviced so had to brush/roll for the sake of time. Totally expected to need a spray coat when my rig was back...

Was pleasantly surprised the next day when I checked the dry rack...every single piece had leveled out beautifully! 

No cracking or glazing so far during my use, have you had issues? Was it after adding the cross-linker or just in general? I’ll need to watch for it if so....


----------



## Zoomer

Hello PPD,
In your opinion is the EM6500 a finish that is hard and durable enough for kitchen cabinets.
We are always trying to find a better mousetrap.
Our favorite BM SuperSpec DTM semi gloss alkyd is going away here in Colorado.
We are seeking out a product that will last the homeowner a good ten years before they would consider a repaint or replacing cabinets.
A paint that lasts for a year or two won't cut it.


----------



## vwbowman

juanvaldez said:


> So a friend had a run in w fisheyes using scuff x again Spraying. (Store person said that using water to thin would do that, and to not use water to thin.) He didn’t have an answer as to what to use to thin but said something that the chemicals in the paint didn’t like water. Also said there have been some bad batches again. Got a new gallon and all was fine.
> 
> What else do you use to thin a water based product like scuff x?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Benjamin Moore recommends their 518 Extender, up to 8 ounces per gallon. Based on the solids content, I was also told that I could had up to 4 ounces of water with the 8 ounces of 518!


----------



## vwbowman

PPD said:


> Just shot some target coatings WB pigmented lacquer (used em6500 + 4% cross-linker) a few weeks ago & was really impressed! Would obviously love a local HQ option vs having to order n wait for shipping but will definitely keep it as an option for future!
> 
> Gunna order some Renner soon & see how it compares.


Considering adding Renner to our line up of products, so I will be interested in what you think.


----------



## PPD

Zoomer said:


> Hello PPD,
> In your opinion is the EM6500 a finish that is hard and durable enough for kitchen cabinets.
> We are always trying to find a better mousetrap.
> Our favorite BM SuperSpec DTM semi gloss alkyd is going away here in Colorado.
> We are seeking out a product that will last the homeowner a good ten years before they would consider a repaint or replacing cabinets.
> A paint that lasts for a year or two won't cut it.



From what I’ve seen so far I’d say yes, I say that hesitantly though cuz I’ve not had enough experience with it yet to give a definite answer.

Decided to switch to FPEO for the clients project & use the em6500 on cabinets for our guest room cuz I was also worried about guaranteeing my work with a new (to me) product.

Will be using it for craft/sewing storage so it’ll see a lot of abuse over a decently short period of time. If I have any issues I’ll post about um @ let ya know.

That said I do highly recommend trying it out at least, its been BEAUTIFUL to work with!

Did an initial durability test on scrap boards- straight from can w/o cross-linker added when it arrived. Only potential concern was mar resistance-could easily dent it when rubbing pen cap over the surface. Was thinking about using renner poly topcoat on the vertical shelves before we decided to switch for client. 

Haven’t tested again after adding cross-linker but will do so today and let ya know if mar resistance improved. 

Part of the reason I was excited to start working with it is how available Kevin (owner & chemist of TC) is if you have ANY questions or concerns. You can call & talk to him directly & he’s happy to discuss concerns, chemical makeup, and make recommendations. I assume he’d also have testing info to share if asked.


----------



## PPD

vwbowman said:


> Considering adding Renner to our line up of products, so I will be interested in what you think.



I’m STOKED to start testing some renner products! Based on what I’ve seen from other finishers is beautiful to lay down & EXTREMELY durable 

Especially excited to play around with the “victoria secret” poly! It was used on the store floors & ended up being so durable they were able to extend their maintenance schedule by a few years. 

Reminds me a lot of the original Break-Through (which I still miss so much)- my local supplier used on their cement floors & it held up in a similar way.


----------



## PPD

vwbowman said:


> Considering adding Renner to our line up of products, so I will be interested in what you think.



Also wanna put some Milesi products through the ringer at the same time I test Renner to see who comes out on top...renner is more easily available though so that’ll prolly play a huge part.


----------



## Zoomer

Thanks PPD,
Keep us posted on the cross linker addition.


----------



## Zoomer

Anybody have info on Axalta coatings.
Luis on you tube has great info on the products.
This product might be the most promising of all the newer waterbornes.


----------



## PPD

Zoomer said:


> Thanks PPD,
> Keep us posted on the cross linker addition.



K, so unfortunately its still easily marred BUT its only the first coat & I’ve sanded it so will test again after final coat...but would be shocked if it changes drastically.

This is the marks after applying medium pressure w/ back of rounded toothbrush end...so I’m assuming that vertical shelves with shoes, baskets, pots/pans, etc will leave marring :/


----------



## Zoomer

PPD said:


> Zoomer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks PPD,
> Keep us posted on the cross linker addition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> K, so unfortunately its still easily marred BUT its only the first coat & I’ve sanded it so will test again after final coat...but would be shocked if it changes drastically.
> 
> This is the marks after applying medium pressure w/ back of rounded toothbrush end...so I’m assuming that vertical shelves with shoes, baskets, pots/pans, etc will leave marring 😕
Click to expand...

Was cross linker added?


----------



## PPD

Zoomer said:


> Was cross linker added?



Yep- went with 3.9% cross linker, but says it can go up to 5%.

Thinkin about it again today I realize it wasn’t really fair to test after sanding down the film for next coat...will update ya again after spraying the next coat n testing the cured film.


----------



## Zoomer

PPD said:


> Zoomer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was cross linker added?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep- went with 3.9% cross linker, but says it can go up to 5%.
> 
> Thinkin about it again today I realize it wasn’t really fair to test after sanding down the film for next coat...will update ya again after spraying the next coat n testing the cured film.
Click to expand...

PPD.
Yes please keep us updated. I do believe EM6500 is very promising but only if they can be purchased and tinted .
Axalta and Renner are the other two I believe are promising


----------



## Redux

PPD said:


> Yep- went with 3.9% cross linker, but says it can go up to 5%.
> 
> Thinkin about it again today I realize it wasn’t really fair to test after sanding down the film for next coat...will update ya again after spraying the next coat n testing the cured film.


There might be a discrepancy on the CL-100 TDS & labeling which states to add 2-5% by volume vs the 5-10% stated on the 6500 TDS. I’ve gone as high as 10% with the 8000, 9000, and 9300. I’ve never used the 6500. I noticed no appreciable difference at 2%, but did when I bumped it up. 

https://www.targetcoatings.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/TC_TechDataSheet_EM6500_R4.pdf


----------



## Redux

juanvaldez said:


> So a friend had a run in w fisheyes using scuff x again Spraying. (Store person said that using water to thin would do that, and to not use water to thin.) He didn’t have an answer as to what to use to thin but said something that the chemicals in the paint didn’t like water. Also said there have been some bad batches again. Got a new gallon and all was fine.
> 
> What else do you use to thin a water based product like scuff x?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Try distilled water. Hard tap water can mess with the product’s surface tension, sometimes resulting in fisheyes.


----------



## juanvaldez

I got some BM extender to try on the next job coming up. I’ll see how that works. 
Anyone try it yet with good results? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PPD

Redux said:


> There might be a discrepancy on the CL-100 TDS & labeling which states to add 2-5% by volume vs the 5-10% stated on the 6500 TDS. I’ve gone as high as 10% with the 8000, 9000, and 9300. I’ve never used the 6500. I noticed no appreciable difference at 2%, but did when I bumped it up.
> 
> https://www.targetcoatings.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/TC_TechDataSheet_EM6500_R4.pdf



Holy crap your totally right!! I even have the TDS saved in my ibooks hahaha...shoulda trusted that over the bottle. Wonder why the discrepancy or if its just meant to be safe..

Can’t imagine the 6500 would be considerably different & if the TDS says “up to 10%” then may as well give it a go! 

Used bout half the cross-linker initially & was bein a bit crazy bout it...gunna add the rest n give it a go, stoked to see if its much different! 

Thanks for such an awesome save (as always) redux


----------



## Zoomer

That's good news5-10% cl per gallon.


----------



## Redux

PPD said:


> Holy crap your totally right!! I even have the TDS saved in my ibooks hahaha...shoulda trusted that over the bottle. Wonder why the discrepancy or if its just meant to be safe..
> 
> Can’t imagine the 6500 would be considerably different & if the TDS says “up to 10%” then may as well give it a go!
> 
> Used bout half the cross-linker initially & was bein a bit crazy bout it...gunna add the rest n give it a go, stoked to see if its much different!
> 
> Thanks for such an awesome save (as always) redux


You’re welcome!

Might be due to the pH being 11.5
If using over shellac, I’m thinking adding 10% could result in crazing.


----------



## Zoomer

Redux said:


> PPD said:
> 
> 
> 
> Holy crap your totally right!! I even have the TDS saved in my ibooks hahaha...shoulda trusted that over the bottle. Wonder why the discrepancy or if its just meant to be safe..
> 
> Can’t imagine the 6500 would be considerably different & if the TDS says “up to 10%” then may as well give it a go!
> 
> Used bout half the cross-linker initially & was bein a bit crazy bout it...gunna add the rest n give it a go, stoked to see if its much different!
> 
> Thanks for such an awesome save (as always) redux
> 
> 
> 
> You’re welcome!
> 
> Might be due to the pH being 11.5
> If using over shellac, I’m thinking adding 10% could result in crazing.
Click to expand...

Thanks guys. We have narrowed it down to 2 candidates. EM6500 with 5%CL and Sayerlack hydroplus with their CL. It appears both play well with Bins primer. Those will be our next two cabinet projects.


----------



## PPD

Zoomer said:


> Thanks guys. We have narrowed it down to 2 candidates. EM6500 with 5%CL and Sayerlack hydroplus with their CL. It appears both play well with Bins primer. Those will be our next two cabinet projects.


Would love if you'd post your comparative thoughts & any photos....will be interesting to see if we get similar results


----------



## Zoomer

PPD said:


> Zoomer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks guys. We have narrowed it down to 2 candidates. EM6500 with 5%CL and Sayerlack hydroplus with their CL. It appears both play well with Bins primer. Those will be our next two cabinet projects.
> 
> 
> 
> Would love if you'd post your comparative thoughts & any photos....will be interesting to see if we get similar results
Click to expand...

. Certainly. As soon as we get a chance once restrictions are lifted.


----------



## Zoomer

Zoomer said:


> PPD said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zoomer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks guys. We have narrowed it down to 2 candidates. EM6500 with 5%CL and Sayerlack hydroplus with their CL. It appears both play well with Bins primer. Those will be our next two cabinet projects.
> 
> 
> 
> Would love if you'd post your comparative thoughts & any photos....will be interesting to see if we get similar results
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> . Certainly. As soon as we get a chance once restrictions are lifted.
Click to expand...

Virus restrictions


----------



## Zoomer

PPD hope all is well in your neck of the woods.
Reporting in let you know our findings on one of the new 2k polyurethane products.
after corresponding with Dario from DM fine finishes in Indiana and speaking to DC Clark from Clark Deco in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania and then finally corresponding with Eric reason the guru of these products because he tests them. We decided to use Milesi 2K polyurethane and the Milesi waterborne primer.
The finish on these products is quite incredible.
I have enclosed photos of a couple of sample pieces that we just finished.
The waterborne primer is unlike any other primer I have ever experienced. Very hard primer and its sands to a beautiful powder.
The 2K finish along with their catalyst makes the finish as hard as a rock.
After letting this finish dry for only 1 hour we tried buffing out a light sag with some denatured alcohol.
It really took some considerable effort just to buff out a light sag.
Never before with any finish have we experienced this type of cure and dry of a paint. Not Advance, Emerald or Breakthrough even comes close to doing with this product did after only 1 hour of dry time.
And the smoothness of the finish reminds me of the old days when my father would spray out lacquers with his conventional.
After thoroughly going through all of Eric Reason's posts we have determined that Melisi will be the kitchen cabinet paint that we will be using from now on.
Low odor and quick turnaround with a hard finish.
We can hardly wait to do our first kitchen cabinet project next week with these products and then in 2 weeks the real challenge where the customer has specced out a black finish on their cabinets but in a flat finish which will also require a top coat for no smudges to be found on a black finish.


----------



## Rbriggs82

Where can you buy these products from and are you spraying with a conventional airless? 

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk


----------



## juanvaldez

Can you just post a new thread on this new material please? While I’m interested in this new material it’s kinda been hijacked now. It’s a cabinet painting with scuff x thread. Thanks!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Zoomer

Rbriggs82 said:


> Where can you buy these products from and are you spraying with a conventional airless?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk


I purchased from Clark Deco in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania. Sprayed with this beauty from Tritech along with one of their 210 fftips. Though many guys use hvlp or air assisted.


----------



## cocomonkeynuts

Zoomer said:


> Rbriggs82 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where can you buy these products from and are you spraying with a conventional airless?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> I purchased from Clark Deco in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania. Sprayed with this beauty from Tritech along with one of their 210 fftips. Though many guys use hvlp or air assisted.
Click to expand...

I just bought another t5 for a customer love those pumps. The low band pressure control is really impressive.


----------



## juanvaldez

Nice work BTW!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Zoomer

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Zoomer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rbriggs82 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where can you buy these products from and are you spraying with a conventional airless?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> I purchased from Clark Deco in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania. Sprayed with this beauty from Tritech along with one of their 210 fftips. Though many guys use hvlp or air assisted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I just bought another t5 for a customer love those pumps. The low band pressure control is really impressive.
Click to expand...

. I agree.
That's why I dropped my nearly new Graco and bought my first Tritech T-7.


----------



## Zoomer

juanvaldez said:


> Nice work BTW!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thank you I appreciate the it.


----------



## finishesbykevyn

Zoomer said:


> I purchased from Clark Deco in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania. Sprayed with this beauty from Tritech along with one of their 210 fftips. Though many guys use hvlp or air assisted.


Was this a repaint or over bare wood. ? If so, how did the primer perform for bonding, staining etc. Any problems with gun spit in that tritech. ? 
I'm all for upping my game on cabinet doors and furniture. Althopugh Still sort of gun shy on spraying cabs boxes in occupied homes.. Is that Milesi tintable? 
2K, better wash her out good!


----------



## Zoomer

finishesbykevyn said:


> Zoomer said:
> 
> 
> 
> I purchased from Clark Deco in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania. Sprayed with this beauty from Tritech along with one of their 210 fftips. Though many guys use hvlp or air assisted.
> 
> 
> 
> Was this a repaint or over bare wood. ? If so, how did the primer perform for bonding, staining etc. Any problems with gun spit in that tritech. ?
> I'm all for upping my game on cabinet doors and furniture. Althopugh Still sort of gun shy on spraying cabs boxes in occupied homes.. Is that Milesi tintable?
> 2K, better wash her out good!
Click to expand...

 this armoire was a dark cherry wood. I wasn't concerned about the hold out for stains knowing that with our kitchen cabinet projects we will be applying a first coat of Bin before we apply thie Milesi 2k primer and paint.
The primer bonded extremely well and send it better than any waterborne I've ever come across. In fact it even stand it better than Bin..
Since this product is a waterborne we will feel more comfortable spray painting in a customer's home knowing they won't have the smell build up as with hybrids or solvent based products.
Clean up was very easy with hot water and soap.


----------



## cocomonkeynuts

finishesbykevyn said:


> Was this a repaint or over bare wood. ? If so, how did the primer perform for bonding, staining etc. Any problems with gun spit in that tritech. ?
> I'm all for upping my game on cabinet doors and furniture. Althopugh Still sort of gun shy on spraying cabs boxes in occupied homes.. Is that Milesi tintable?
> 2K, better wash her out good!



Tritech makes a few different guns but they all have very good positive shutoff. The standard gun that comes with T5 and up is similar to previous generation graco contractor gun. I don't care for the new PC gun too much plastic parts .


----------



## finishesbykevyn

Zoomer said:


> this armoire was a dark cherry wood. I wasn't concerned about the hold out for stains knowing that with our kitchen cabinet projects we will be applying a first coat of Bin before we apply thie Milesi 2k primer and paint.
> The primer bonded extremely well and send it better than any waterborne I've ever come across. In fact it even stand it better than Bin..
> Since this product is a waterborne we will feel more comfortable spray painting in a customer's home knowing they won't have the smell build up as with hybrids or solvent based products.
> Clean up was very easy with hot water and soap.


Are you also spraying the BIN out of your airless rig?


----------



## finishesbykevyn

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Tritech makes a few different guns but they all have very good positive shutoff. The standard gun that comes with T5 and up is similar to previous generation graco contractor gun. I don't care for the new PC gun too much plastic parts .


I may consider getting one of those tritech guns. I bought another Graco PC gun and it still spits from my 390.


----------



## Zoomer

finishesbykevyn said:


> Zoomer said:
> 
> 
> 
> this armoire was a dark cherry wood. I wasn't concerned about the hold out for stains knowing that with our kitchen cabinet projects we will be applying a first coat of Bin before we apply thie Milesi 2k primer and paint.
> The primer bonded extremely well and send it better than any waterborne I've ever come across. In fact it even stand it better than Bin..
> Since this product is a waterborne we will feel more comfortable spray painting in a customer's home knowing they won't have the smell build up as with hybrids or solvent based products.
> Clean up was very easy with hot water and soap.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you also spraying the BIN out of your airless rig?
Click to expand...

yes. A thorough flush with ammonia or denatured alcohol afterwards.


----------



## cocomonkeynuts

finishesbykevyn said:


> cocomonkeynuts said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tritech makes a few different guns but they all have very good positive shutoff. The standard gun that comes with T5 and up is similar to previous generation graco contractor gun. I don't care for the new PC gun too much plastic parts .
> 
> 
> 
> I may consider getting one of those tritech guns. I bought another Graco PC gun and it still spits from my 390.
Click to expand...

A TriTech T4 would just blow you away in quality coming from a 390. The guns come in 2 thread sizes one is compatible with Graco/Titan guard's


----------



## Zoomer

cocomonkeynuts said:


> finishesbykevyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cocomonkeynuts said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tritech makes a few different guns but they all have very good positive shutoff. The standard gun that comes with T5 and up is similar to previous generation graco contractor gun. I don't care for the new PC gun too much plastic parts .
> 
> 
> 
> I may consider getting one of those tritech guns. I bought another Graco PC gun and it still spits from my 390.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A TriTech T4 would just blow you away in quality coming from a 390. The guns come in 2 thread sizes one is compatible with Graco/Titan guard's
Click to expand...

Agreed👍👌


----------



## finishesbykevyn

Zoomer said:


> yes. A thorough flush with ammonia or denatured alcohol afterwards.


Some food for thought. Have you tried spraying BIN from an HVLP. It is magical. So much control. And easy clean up. Like 2 minutes & 2 ounces of methol Hydrate to clean everything.


----------



## Ricks Painting

finishesbykevyn said:


> Some food for thought. Have you tried spraying BIN from an HVLP. It is magical. So much control. And easy clean up. Like 2 minutes & 2 ounces of methol Hydrate to clean everything.


 where can you buy methol hydrate and would denatured work just as well?


----------



## cocomonkeynuts

Ricks Painting said:


> finishesbykevyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some food for thought. Have you tried spraying BIN from an HVLP. It is magical. So much control. And easy clean up. Like 2 minutes & 2 ounces of methol Hydrate to clean everything.
> 
> 
> 
> where can you buy methol hydrate and would denatured work just as well?
Click to expand...

Denatured and ammonia work just fine. Ammonia is dirt cheap too


----------



## Ricks Painting

currently bidding a job to paint some bedroom furniture and have been thinking about using scuff x since its the best in my book and doesnt mar as easy as CC. I also use renner but i can save a ton of cash by going with scuff x. Would you suggest just doing 2 coats of scuff x or prime with something better? i do have renner primers 1k/2k


----------



## cocomonkeynuts

Ricks Painting said:


> currently bidding a job to paint some bedroom furniture and have been thinking about using scuff x since its the best in my book and doesnt mar as easy as CC. I also use renner but i can save a ton of cash by going with scuff x. Would you suggest just doing 2 coats of scuff x or prime with something better? i do have renner primers 1k/2k



unknown how scuffx hold up long term to hand oils


----------



## finishesbykevyn

Ricks Painting said:


> currently bidding a job to paint some bedroom furniture and have been thinking about using scuff x since its the best in my book and doesnt mar as easy as CC. I also use renner but i can save a ton of cash by going with scuff x. Would you suggest just doing 2 coats of scuff x or prime with something better? i do have renner primers 1k/2k


Not sure what type of furniture your talking about, but I would definitely prime first and also do 2 coats.
How much money are you really saving btw.? Were only talking a gallon of paint here.. Scuffx isn't really designed for furniture, but I would probably use it on a fireplace or the likes that doesn't get handled much..


----------



## finishesbykevyn

Ricks Painting said:


> where can you buy methol hydrate and would denatured work just as well?


 I'm in Canada, but MH is available at all the paint shops and hardware stores.
Basically the same thing as DA..


----------



## ccpi

cocomonkeynuts said:


> A TriTech T4 would just blow you away in quality coming from a 390. The guns come in 2 thread sizes one is compatible with Graco/Titan guard's



Who in Canada sells Tritech? I have Graco and Titan pumps. Would like to look into a T5.


Thanks.


----------



## cocomonkeynuts

ccpi said:


> Who in Canada sells Tritech? I have Graco and Titan pumps. Would like to look into a T5.
> 
> 
> Thanks.



Not sure give them a call
https://tritechindustries.com/contact-us/


----------



## ccpi

Thanks!


----------



## vwbowman

Moving back to the Scuff-X on cabinets, I had a shop ask if it could be glazed and clear coated. After checking with a chemist at Ben Moore, we used Lenmar Aqua Plastic 1WB.14xx for the clear coat. Absolutely beautiful! To me the only drawback was the cure time for the Aqua Plastic as it stayed soft for about a week (this was about 6 weeks ago, so temps were cooler in the shop). It has no amber which can be desirable on glazed cabinets to add to the antique effect. The cabinet shop was quite happy with application and look and the customer had no problem allowing extra cure time. Fortunately, not much glazing is done, but this worked well for a waterborne solution.


----------



## finishesbykevyn

ccpi said:


> Who in Canada sells Tritech? I have Graco and Titan pumps. Would like to look into a T5.
> 
> 
> Thanks.


Was thinking the same thing. Sure not easy getting info or pricing from these guys.. Whats the big secret.


----------



## cocomonkeynuts

finishesbykevyn said:


> ccpi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who in Canada sells Tritech? I have Graco and Titan pumps. Would like to look into a T5.
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> Was thinking the same thing. Sure not easy getting info or pricing from these guys.. Whats the big secret.
Click to expand...

They sell through sales reps and independent shops, just got to find the right person to talk to. Not sure who that is in Canada but looks like the guy who handles international sales...


----------



## cocomonkeynuts

vwbowman said:


> Moving back to the Scuff-X on cabinets, I had a shop ask if it could be glazed and clear coated. After checking with a chemist at Ben Moore, we used Lenmar Aqua Plastic 1WB.14xx for the clear coat. Absolutely beautiful! To me the only drawback was the cure time for the Aqua Plastic as it stayed soft for about a week (this was about 6 weeks ago, so temps were cooler in the shop). It has no amber which can be desirable on glazed cabinets to add to the antique effect. The cabinet shop was quite happy with application and look and the customer had no problem allowing extra cure time. Fortunately, not much glazing is done, but this worked well for a waterborne solution.


I like the dull flat aquaplastic. Nice low sheen and good clarity with multiple coats unlike stays clear flat.

Use PZ catalyst if you need to speed up curing


----------



## Zoomer

Zoomer said:


> PPD hope all is well in your neck of the woods.
> Reporting in let you know our findings on one of the new 2k polyurethane products.
> after corresponding with Dario from DM fine finishes in Indiana and speaking to DC Clark from Clark Deco in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania and then finally corresponding with Eric reason the guru of these products because he tests them. We decided to use Milesi 2K polyurethane and the Milesi waterborne primer.
> The finish on these products is quite incredible.
> I have enclosed photos of a couple of sample pieces that we just finished.
> The waterborne primer is unlike any other primer I have ever experienced. Very hard primer and its sands to a beautiful powder.
> The 2K finish along with their catalyst makes the finish as hard as a rock.
> After letting this finish dry for only 1 hour we tried buffing out a light sag with some denatured alcohol.
> It really took some considerable effort just to buff out a light sag.
> Never before with any finish have we experienced this type of cure and dry of a paint. Not Advance, Emerald or Breakthrough even comes close to doing with this product did after only 1 hour of dry time.
> And the smoothness of the finish reminds me of the old days when my father would spray out lacquers with his conventional.
> After thoroughly going through all of Eric Reason's posts we have determined that Melisi will be the kitchen cabinet paint that we will be using from now on.
> Low odor and quick turnaround with a hard finish.
> We can hardly wait to do our first kitchen cabinet project next week with these products and then in 2 weeks the real challenge where the customer has specced out a black finish on their cabinets but in a flat finish which will also require a top coat for no smudges to be found on a black finish.


PPD here is the Milesi 2k 20 sheen with a 2k clear coat in 10 sheen. Beyond amazing finish and fairly easy to use


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## Joe67

Zoomer said:


> PPD here is the Milesi 2k 20 sheen with a 2k clear coat in 10 sheen. Beyond amazing finish and fairly easy to use



Looks freaking awesome.


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## cocomonkeynuts

Zoomer said:


> Zoomer said:
> 
> 
> 
> PPD hope all is well in your neck of the woods.
> Reporting in let you know our findings on one of the new 2k polyurethane products.
> after corresponding with Dario from DM fine finishes in Indiana and speaking to DC Clark from Clark Deco in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania and then finally corresponding with Eric reason the guru of these products because he tests them. We decided to use Milesi 2K polyurethane and the Milesi waterborne primer.
> The finish on these products is quite incredible.
> I have enclosed photos of a couple of sample pieces that we just finished.
> The waterborne primer is unlike any other primer I have ever experienced. Very hard primer and its sands to a beautiful powder.
> The 2K finish along with their catalyst makes the finish as hard as a rock.
> After letting this finish dry for only 1 hour we tried buffing out a light sag with some denatured alcohol.
> It really took some considerable effort just to buff out a light sag.
> Never before with any finish have we experienced this type of cure and dry of a paint. Not Advance, Emerald or Breakthrough even comes close to doing with this product did after only 1 hour of dry time.
> And the smoothness of the finish reminds me of the old days when my father would spray out lacquers with his conventional.
> After thoroughly going through all of Eric Reason's posts we have determined that Melisi will be the kitchen cabinet paint that we will be using from now on.
> Low odor and quick turnaround with a hard finish.
> We can hardly wait to do our first kitchen cabinet project next week with these products and then in 2 weeks the real challenge where the customer has specced out a black finish on their cabinets but in a flat finish which will also require a top coat for no smudges to be found on a black finish.
> 
> 
> 
> PPD here is the Milesi 2k 20 sheen with a 2k clear coat in 10 sheen. Beyond amazing finish and fairly easy to use
Click to expand...

Do they make 5 sheen?


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## Zoomer

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Zoomer said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zoomer said:
> 
> 
> 
> PPD hope all is well in your neck of the woods.
> Reporting in let you know our findings on one of the new 2k polyurethane products.
> after corresponding with Dario from DM fine finishes in Indiana and speaking to DC Clark from Clark Deco in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania and then finally corresponding with Eric reason the guru of these products because he tests them. We decided to use Milesi 2K polyurethane and the Milesi waterborne primer.
> The finish on these products is quite incredible.
> I have enclosed photos of a couple of sample pieces that we just finished.
> The waterborne primer is unlike any other primer I have ever experienced. Very hard primer and its sands to a beautiful powder.
> The 2K finish along with their catalyst makes the finish as hard as a rock.
> After letting this finish dry for only 1 hour we tried buffing out a light sag with some denatured alcohol.
> It really took some considerable effort just to buff out a light sag.
> Never before with any finish have we experienced this type of cure and dry of a paint. Not Advance, Emerald or Breakthrough even comes close to doing with this product did after only 1 hour of dry time.
> And the smoothness of the finish reminds me of the old days when my father would spray out lacquers with his conventional.
> After thoroughly going through all of Eric Reason's posts we have determined that Melisi will be the kitchen cabinet paint that we will be using from now on.
> Low odor and quick turnaround with a hard finish.
> We can hardly wait to do our first kitchen cabinet project next week with these products and then in 2 weeks the real challenge where the customer has specced out a black finish on their cabinets but in a flat finish which will also require a top coat for no smudges to be found on a black finish.
> 
> 
> 
> PPD here is the Milesi 2k 20 sheen with a 2k clear coat in 10 sheen. Beyond amazing finish and fairly easy to use
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Do they make 5 sheen?
Click to expand...

 I'm not certain but you could ask DC at Clark deco


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## Redux

Zoomer said:


> PPD here is the Milesi 2k 20 sheen with a 2k clear coat in 10 sheen. Beyond amazing finish and fairly easy to use


Any concerns with atomized isocyanates in an occupied home? 

Looks great by-the-way!


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## Zoomer

Redux said:


> Zoomer said:
> 
> 
> 
> PPD here is the Milesi 2k 20 sheen with a 2k clear coat in 10 sheen. Beyond amazing finish and fairly easy to use
> 
> 
> 
> Any concerns with atomized isocyanates in an occupied home?
> 
> Looks great by-the-way!
Click to expand...

 We always try to spray The doors in the garage. Why is the kitchen vent with a box fan in a window or door opening.


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## Zoomer

This was our first kitchen cabinet job using Milesi Waterborne 2k.
The customer never once noticed odors due to spray painting.
This was the first given that we have spray painted in years past with Advance, Breakthrough, Alkyds, Cabinet Coat, and Scuff X.
Milesi is low odor.


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## Redux

Zoomer said:


> This was our first kitchen cabinet job using Milesi Waterborne 2k.
> The customer never once noticed odors due to spray painting.
> This was the first given that we have spray painted in years past with Advance, Breakthrough, Alkyds, Cabinet Coat, and Scuff X.
> Milesi is low odor.


Isocyanates have low to almost no odor.
Having upwards 36 years occupational exposure working with isocyanate 2-pack finishes, MCPU being the first, my suggestion to anyone new to them, is to read up on the hazards.


https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/96-111/default.html


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## Zoomer

Redux said:


> Zoomer said:
> 
> 
> 
> This was our first kitchen cabinet job using Milesi Waterborne 2k.
> The customer never once noticed odors due to spray painting.
> This was the first given that we have spray painted in years past with Advance, Breakthrough, Alkyds, Cabinet Coat, and Scuff X.
> Milesi is low odor.
> 
> 
> 
> Isocyanates have low to almost no odor.
> Having upwards 36 years occupational exposure working with isocyanate 2-pack finishes, MCPU being the first, my suggestion to anyone new to them, is to read up on the hazards.
> 
> 
> https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/96-111/default.html
Click to expand...

Thank youwe use the same passions as we would if we were spraying with lacquer or with oil enamel.


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## cocomonkeynuts

Redux said:


> Zoomer said:
> 
> 
> 
> This was our first kitchen cabinet job using Milesi Waterborne 2k.
> The customer never once noticed odors due to spray painting.
> This was the first given that we have spray painted in years past with Advance, Breakthrough, Alkyds, Cabinet Coat, and Scuff X.
> Milesi is low odor.
> 
> 
> 
> Isocyanates have low to almost no odor.
> Having upwards 36 years occupational exposure working with isocyanate 2-pack finishes, MCPU being the first, my suggestion to anyone new to them, is to read up on the hazards.
> 
> 
> https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/96-111/default.html
Click to expand...

In addition low odor products are almost worse because you don't realize you are still being exposed to dangerous chemicals.


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## Joe67

cocomonkeynuts said:


> In addition low odor products are almost worse because you don't realize you are still being exposed to dangerous chemicals.



Seems to me this exactly why stinky stuff is added to natural gas and the like, so it does seem odd to leave it low odor + unhealthy. Of course, natural gas is a different kind of hazard...


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## Zoomer

Sorry, it should say cautions not Passions


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## Redux

cocomonkeynuts said:


> In addition low odor products are almost worse because you don't realize you are still being exposed to dangerous chemicals.


The following was a quote from PACman pulled from an earlier thread:


“I have seen people react pretty badly to isocyanates before. We had to take an employee to the emergency room because he had a reaction to some once. His face turned beet red. Scared the hell out of me. But all the guys wore their damn respirators after that! You can't smell pure isocyanates and that is the biggest problem. People don't think they need to wear a respirator.”


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## finishesbykevyn

Redux said:


> The following was a quote from PACman pulled from an earlier thread:
> 
> 
> “I have seen people react pretty badly to isocyanates before. We had to take an employee to the emergency room because he had a reaction to some once. His face turned beet red. Scared the hell out of me. But all the guys wore their damn respirators after that! You can't smell pure isocyanates and that is the biggest problem. People don't think they need to wear a respirator.”


Pacman totally just gone MIA. Guess he was done with his SW rant?


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## PPD

Zoomer said:


> PPD here is the Milesi 2k 20 sheen with a 2k clear coat in 10 sheen. Beyond amazing finish and fairly easy to use


Holy crap this is absolutely stunning. Sorry I was MIA for a bit but thanks SO MUCH for the updates!!

Ended up scraping the ideal of long term use for TC + Cross-Linker ….the shipping to CA was just too high to consider it a viable option for jobs


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