# Sanders



## philcav7 (Sep 12, 2013)

Besides the festool, who else makes a good sander for connecting to a hepa vac? 

Dust collection is the primary focus. Will be used for paint and a little bit of general use.


----------



## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

What kind of Hepa vac do you have?


----------



## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

The Dewalts work. The dust port is about the same size as a small vac hose ( close enough for duct tape) if you have the larger hoses there is an adaptor that works. 

I use Dewalts with my Rigid HEPA all the time. I made custom shrouds for RRP work. 

The Dewalt grinder comes with a shroud, but its not really good enough for RRP (Doesn't contact the surface)


----------



## philcav7 (Sep 12, 2013)

I don't have the vac yet. The top contenders are fein and festool. I think the fein is leading the way due to price point. 

This setup must be rrp complaint.


----------



## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

We ran Dewalt on our Festool CT26, the hose fits but you will have to tape it other wise it will slip out. I'm sure you could get an adapter to make it work.


----------



## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

philcav7 said:


> Besides the festool, who else makes a good sander for connecting to a hepa vac?
> 
> Dust collection is the primary focus. Will be used for paint and a little bit of general use.



Hey phil, in response to your pm, here is how I made shrouds for the Dewalts. The ones from last year are disassembled so this is just a crude mock up, but I think you can get the idea. 

The strip of rubber came from the top of a rubber boot. The converter allows the bigger vac hose to connect to the sander dust port. 

Basically I just tape the strip of rubber into the sander so that it makes contact with the surface and is sealed air tight to the body of the sander. The flexibility of the rubber lets the shroud move as you sand and still maintain contact with the surface. 

The last pic is the shroud that comes with the Dewalt grinders. It's not compliant by itself because it doesn't make contact with the surface. Same idea with it, used the rubber strip to extend the shroud to make contact. Dust collection is from the port on the shroud. 

I actually got this idea from the instructors at my RRP course. They had an example shroud that had been made for a sawsall. It was made out of a toilet plunger. The flex of the plunger allowed it to maintain contact with the surface with the saw in operation. 


Just hooking the hose up to the sanders does a lot as far as dust collection, but from what I understand the shroud must be in contact with the surface while the tool is being operated to be compliant. 


It works and looks better if you use black Gorilla tape


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Festool is worth the price.


----------



## philcav7 (Sep 12, 2013)

Thanks for the pics. I ended up with a similar dewalt sander and a dustless technologies vac. I used a 2" fernco to attach the hose now I gotta find a shroud and get it setup. 

I found that the universal fit sanding disc suck for dust collection compared to the 8 hole ones, but as is the collection is pretty good so far. 

Thanks again.


----------



## benthepainter (Jun 17, 2011)

straight_lines said:


> Festool is worth the price.


Mine ain't no festool but it sure does suck : )


----------



## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Awesome Ben!!!
Lmao! 


Sent from my blah blah blah


----------



## Mike2coat (Nov 12, 2013)

Jmayspaint said:


> The Dewalts work. The dust port is about the same size as a small vac hose ( close enough for duct tape) if you have the larger hoses there is an adaptor that works. I use Dewalts with my Rigid HEPA all the time. I made custom shrouds for RRP work. The Dewalt grinder comes with a shroud, but its not really good enough for RRP (Doesn't contact the surface)


How did you make the shrouds ?


----------



## Mike2coat (Nov 12, 2013)

Jmayspaint said:


> Hey phil, in response to your pm, here is how I made shrouds for the Dewalts. The ones from last year are disassembled so this is just a crude mock up, but I think you can get the idea. The strip of rubber came from the top of a rubber boot. The converter allows the bigger vac hose to connect to the sander dust port. Basically I just tape the strip of rubber into the sander so that it makes contact with the surface and is sealed air tight to the body of the sander. The flexibility of the rubber lets the shroud move as you sand and still maintain contact with the surface. The last pic is the shroud that comes with the Dewalt grinders. It's not compliant by itself because it doesn't make contact with the surface. Same idea with it, used the rubber strip to extend the shroud to make contact. Dust collection is from the port on the shroud. I actually got this idea from the instructors at my RRP course. They had an example shroud that had been made for a sawsall. It was made out of a toilet plunger. The flex of the plunger allowed it to maintain contact with the surface with the saw in operation. Just hooking the hose up to the sanders does a lot as far as dust collection, but from what I understand the shroud must be in contact with the surface while the tool is being operated to be compliant. It works and looks better if you use black Gorilla tape


I see


----------



## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

benthepainter said:


> Mine ain't no festool but it sure does suck : )


Lol. That's beautiful. I guess that's an "Austool".:yes:


----------



## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

benthepainter said:


> Mine ain't no festool but it sure does suck : )


I can see better now how you have so much time during work to cook on your Webber


----------



## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

benthepainter said:


> Mine ain't no festool but it sure does suck : )


Mine sucks also, and that's the soffit ceiling.


----------



## benthepainter (Jun 17, 2011)

slinger58 said:


> Lol. That's beautiful. I guess that's an "Austool".:yes:


That's a good one Slinger : )


----------



## benthepainter (Jun 17, 2011)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Mine sucks also, and that's the soffit ceiling.


 I noticed in your pic unlike mine in complete airtime lol your are holding your hose ? A little expensive are we ?
: p

To be honest I did countdown my hang time I had maybe 4 seconds before it dropped maybe 5


----------



## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

benthepainter said:


> I noticed in your pic unlike mine in complete airtime lol your are holding your hose ? A little expensive are we ?
> : p
> 
> To be honest I did countdown my hang time I had maybe 4 seconds before it dropped maybe 5


I had the sander on when I took the pic and didn't want it running off without me.


----------



## benthepainter (Jun 17, 2011)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> I had the sander on when I took the pic and didn't want it running off without me.


The Austool isn't that fancy when I turn the sander off the vaccy runs for about 5sec then cuts out so 5sec window for action shots lol


----------



## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

To answer the op I believe Mirka Ceros and Fein are also highly rated sanders for dust collection. 



Sent from my blah blah blah


----------



## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

straight_lines said:


> Festool is worth the price.



How do the shrouds work? Do the festool sanders come with them or do you have to buy separate?

Doing a quick google, I'm not seeing where you can but the full shrouds.


----------



## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Jmayspaint said:


> How do the shrouds work? Do the festool sanders come with them or do you have to buy separate?
> 
> Doing a quick google, I'm not seeing where you can but the full shrouds.


I'm lazy right now but will snap a pic in the morning of the Festool shroud that came with our RO125 & 150's. It isn't much. To me it's more of a debris deflector than a shroud.


----------



## Painter-Aaron (Jan 17, 2013)

cdpainting said:


> I'm lazy right now but will snap a pic in the morning of the Festool shroud that came with our RO125 & 150's. It isn't much. To me it's more of a debris deflector than a shroud.



Your 125 came with a deflector? Mine didn't! But the 150 did. 


Sent from my iPhone using PaintTalk.com


----------



## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Painter-Aaron said:


> Your 125 came with a deflector? Mine didn't! But the 150 did.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PaintTalk.com


Yes. I will take pic of both in the morning.


----------



## Andyman (Feb 21, 2009)

To those Festoolers- it seems like the mini vac would be sufficient for most sanding only applications. 2 gallons of sanding dust seems like it would take awhile to fill? I wouldn't be using it for general cleaning just sanding dust. Opinions? Looking at the RO 125/150. No RRP or NC, mostly repaints.


----------



## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

I'm a little confused?



> (D) Work practices listed below are prohibited during a renovation:
> 
> 1. Open-flame	burning	or	torching	of	painted	surfaces;
> 
> ...


Are you comparing the edge protector/deflector with the shroud? My understanding was that they were 2 different things?


----------



## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Yup. Two different things. The RAS125 has a partial shroud. RO125 no shroud but does have containment system. The edge protector is merely to avoid damaging adjacent surfaces. 



Sent from my blah blah blah


----------



## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

What sander would you use for stripping paint off 2x4 decking? The RO90 is 3-1/2" I believe, same as a 2x4. The RAS 115 is 4-1/2".
There are screws top-fastened


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Jmayspaint said:


> How do the shrouds work? Do the festool sanders come with them or do you have to buy separate?
> 
> Doing a quick google, I'm not seeing where you can but the full shrouds.


The only sander I am aware of that has a shroud is the RAS. The dust collection is really good if the sander has full contact with the surface.


----------



## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

cdpainting said:


> Yes. I will take pic of both in the morning.


CD, did you ever get the pics? I am curious, my understanding regarding RRP was that either a shroud *or* containment was required, but it sounds like (at least to me) that some are confusing the the "bumper" with the "shroud". I'm not a Festool user, but I am doing an RRP training next month and trying to clear up some possible misconceptions. Would appreciate hearing more. Thanks


----------



## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

RCP said:


> CD, did you ever get the pics? I am curious, my understanding regarding RRP was that either a shroud *or* containment was required, but it sounds like (at least to me) that some are confusing the the "bumper" with the "shroud". I'm not a Festool user, but I am doing an RRP training next month and trying to clear up some possible misconceptions. Would appreciate hearing more. Thanks


I didn't take pics yet. I definitely will first thing in the morning.


----------



## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Painter-Aaron said:


> Your 125 came with a deflector? Mine didn't! But the 150 did.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PaintTalk.com


One of our guys threw it out. It fell off while I was using it. I have the bags of trash at my house and have to dig through them to find it. Yeah I'm not happy about it.


----------



## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

The instructions for the RO125. Pics of the RO150. The 125 looks just like the 150 but clips on a little different. Sorry about the dark pic my phone camera stinks.


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Dave

It may just be a sematical thing, but thats not a shroud. It is an edge protector.


----------



## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

vermontpainter said:


> Dave
> 
> It may just be a sematical thing, but thats not a shroud. It is an edge protector.



Festool calls it a "shroud" I guess you could say it is, just not a full shroud.


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Jmayspaint said:


> Festool calls it a "shroud" I guess you could say it is, just not a full shroud.


That is a different tool than what Dave is showing. 

The ONLY tool that Festool makes with a shroud is the RAS115, which is the one you linked. 

The Rotex models that Dave is using are not shrouded.


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Yup thats the RAS, if I am correct its the only sander with a shroud.

Scott beat me to it.


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

straight_lines said:


> Yup thats the RAS, if I am correct its the only sander with a shroud.


You are correct (as usual). 

And here is one good application for the shrouded RAS:


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I saw that video when you posted it on SM.. Cool use for that tool that I had not seen before. 

One of the most unusual uses for the RAS I have ever seen was coping millwork. 

http://youtu.be/pPT4zaLpSHw?t=4m5s


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

straight_lines said:


> I saw that video when you posted it on SM.. Cool use for that tool that I had not seen before.
> 
> One of the most unusual uses for the RAS I have ever seen was coping millwork.
> 
> http://youtu.be/pPT4zaLpSHw?t=4m5s


Yes, carpenters love it for coping crown and base, and fast!


----------



## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

vermontpainter said:


> Dave
> 
> It may just be a sematical thing, but thats not a shroud. It is an edge protector.


The instruction manual calls it a shroud. I call it lost now lol. I did some looking on their site and they call it a deflector.


----------



## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

straight_lines said:


> I saw that video when you posted it on SM.. Cool use for that tool that I had not seen before.
> 
> One of the most unusual uses for the RAS I have ever seen was coping millwork.
> 
> http://youtu.be/pPT4zaLpSHw?t=4m5s


The finish contractor that we work with uses a grinder with a sanding disc. They can skip the hand work at the end.


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

cdpainting said:


> The instruction manual calls it a shroud. I call it lost now lol. I did some looking on their site and they call it a deflector.


You will want to get a new one. Running it without the edge protector on will ruin pads really fast.


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

cdpainting said:


> The instruction manual calls it a shroud. I call it lost now lol. I did some looking on their site and they call it a deflector.


Thats so odd that your manual says that. 

Here is a clearer shot of image 5.1 that you posted in post #33.


----------



## Painter-Aaron (Jan 17, 2013)

straight_lines said:


> You will want to get a new one. Running it without the edge protector on will ruin pads really fast.



Boy does it ever. My ro125 didn't even come with one. I should go back to the store and ask about it 


Sent from my iPhone using PaintTalk.com


----------



## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> You will want to get a new one. Running it without the edge protector on will ruin pads really fast.



I've never used the edge protector. That explains the look of my pad! 


Sent from my blah blah blah


----------



## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Damon T said:


> I've never used the edge protector. That explains the look of my pad!
> 
> 
> Sent from my blah blah blah


Use it Damon. I was just using my RO 125 yesterday on some stairs and found myself really relying on the edge thingie. It's three years old and looks pretty dam good IMHO.


----------



## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Damon T said:


> I've never used the edge protector. That explains the look of my pad!
> 
> 
> Sent from my blah blah blah


Our pads is now destroyed. It took 2 days for the guys to ruin it. I used it for 2 days and it looked fine after. No respect for the tools. I'm just going to buy another one this weekend. Pad and thingy.


----------



## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

That's the hard part of integrating nice tools into the workforce. They won't love them like you do! 


Sent from my blah blah blah


----------



## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

One of our RO150's is already smoking pretty bad. It goes back by this weekend.


----------



## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Just picked up the RAS 115 today, along with some Saphir 24 and 36 grit. Have the perfect house for it. Peeling cracking paint on a post-1978 house. No lead worries. Will still hook up to the vac of course. Might put the old Fein back into action. Is that then a Festoolstein? Feintool? 
I really need to get a go pro camera to document some of the fun. There's precious little on YouTube etc for this tool. I also have the latest edition of the paint Shaver , apparently they changed the handle style recently and it doesn't pivot anymore. Not sure if that's a good thing or not, but of course the guy at the factory said it was an improvement. 




Sent from my iPad using PaintTalk.com


----------



## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Damon T said:


> Just picked up the RAS 115 today, along with some Saphir 24 and 36 grit. Have the perfect house for it. Peeling cracking paint on a post-1978 house. No lead worries. Will still hook up to the vac of course. Might put the old Fein back into action. Is that then a Festoolstein? Feintool?
> I really need to get a go pro camera to document some of the fun. There's precious little on YouTube etc for this tool. I also have the latest edition of the paint Shaver , apparently they changed the handle style recently and it doesn't pivot anymore. Not sure if that's a good thing or not, but of course the guy at the factory said it was an improvement.
> 
> 
> ...


Pivoting is a huge help, this already kicks most guys back sides, pivoting the head around seems to help elevate some of that stress on the upper body.

I do wish it had a trigger and not an on and off switch. This would help prevent people from getting chewed up if they grab it wrong.

I have gotten into the habit of keeping my right thumb on the on/off switch. I turn it on then slide my thumb up the switch and push it up while holding it, as soon as you left go it turns off. It runs just fine this way and makes me feel safer.


----------



## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Finally had a chance to use the paint shaver pro and our ras 115. Both worked very well. The siding was cupped in many places which made it hard for the shaver. The ras had good attack and control. The shaver had better control than I had imagined. I wasn't able to get the bottom of the siding yet, I guess I need to adjust the settings for that. When I used to use the metabo paint shaver I would just turn it upside down to get the bottom edge of the siding. 



Sent from my iPad using PaintTalk.com


----------



## Monstertruck (Oct 26, 2013)

cdpainting said:


> *Pivoting is a huge help,* this already kicks most guys back sides, pivoting the head around seems to help elevate some of that stress on the upper body.
> 
> I do wish it had a *trigger and not an on and off switch*. This would help prevent people from getting chewed up if they grab it wrong.
> 
> I have gotten into the habit of *keeping my right thumb on the on/off* switch. I turn it on then slide my thumb up the switch and push it up while holding it, as soon as you left go it turns off. It runs just fine this way and makes me feel safer.


 The 'new' handle sucks.
No trigger sucks on such a powerful/deadly tool.
Adapting hand/finger position to accomodate these short-comings makes the tool even more challenging to master.
That being said, it certainly has it's uses.


----------



## Monstertruck (Oct 26, 2013)

vermontpainter said:


> You are correct (as usual).
> 
> And here is one good application for the shrouded RAS:
> 
> Festool RAS115 on Concrete Prep - YouTube


What was on the sander, a diamond blade?

We just ground an entire basement floor that had failing concrete stain.
The only thing that would touch it was a diamond blade.

Am most interested in other solutions for concrete.


----------



## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Damon T said:


> Finally had a chance to use the paint shaver pro and our ras 115. Both worked very well. The siding was cupped in many places which made it hard for the shaver. The ras had good attack and control. The shaver had better control than I had imagined. I wasn't able to get the bottom of the siding yet, I guess I need to adjust the settings for that. When I used to use the metabo paint shaver I would just turn it upside down to get the bottom edge of the siding.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using PaintTalk.com


Slowly adjust the edge shaver part. Cupped/warped claps are almost impossible to hit with the shaver. As well be careful of nails.

Did you get the diamond tip blades or the carbide?


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Monstertruck said:


> What was on the sander, a diamond blade?
> 
> We just ground an entire basement floor that had failing concrete stain.
> The only thing that would touch it was a diamond blade.
> ...


24g paper


----------



## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

cdpainting said:


> Slowly adjust the edge shaver part. Cupped/warped claps are almost impossible to hit with the shaver. As well be careful of nails.
> 
> 
> 
> Did you get the diamond tip blades or the carbide?



Got the carbide and the 8 amp version. The Diamond sound really good. The default depth on the shaver seemed perfect. I dialed the setting for the bottom edge in better. Not perfect but not bad. 
I got the extended warranty for $25. Seemed like a good move. 


Sent from my blah blah blah


----------

