# Appreciate any feedback on SW



## karge (Aug 1, 2016)

Today I opened an account with SW at a new store that opened near me. I figured no harm in expanding my options and products. Ive been primarily with dulux and occasionally BM for those who want it. I was impressed with the customer service and the rates they will provide me and are also the only place Ive seen purdy brushes on sale. Ive used the Cashmere as provided by a customer for a small job I did and I believe Oppulance as well. Any honest feedback would be appreciated and no doubt a bit hesitant trying out a new product after so many years of the same. I know many contractors use it and its a good price point as well.. Thanks


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## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

I'll be poppin' the popcorn on behalf of PACman.

Not many on here are big fans of SW. I'd venture to say that only about 1/4 of all the stores in the U.S. are staffed with quality, professional people who know the paint biz. I am beyond lucky in that my local store is one of the best, if not the best SW store in Ohio. Service is quick. Even on busy mornings with a dozen contractors in to get their "stuff", I'm usually out of the store in 10-15 minutes if not sooner. I know everyone there on a first name basis. I like most of their products but I know that BM is better in most categories. I've been a customer of theirs for almost 40 years. i've tried to jump to the dark side, but, my store is just so good that I can't fathom making a change now.

So, give your local SW store a shot. I make no promises that you will be treated like I've been treated. My advice is to give them a chance to EARN your business with good contractor pricing (good luck), professional service, and pretty decent products. Don't wait long though. If they ain't got it, they ain't got it. Don't be afraid to take your business elsewhere..........


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## kmp (Jan 30, 2011)

I have used S/W in my area of western Colorado,7 stores covering 7 cities as well as a store in southern Arizona and not had a problem with any of them in terms of customer service. All paint companies have good as well as bad products and staff turnover. Don't have a I hate S/W and you will probably do well by them.


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## MIZZOU (Nov 18, 2012)

I'm a SW fan. Good products, at good prices, for almost any application or project. My local store is very knowledgeable so that helps too. They're also my best referral, pull down more quality work from them than anyone else. They've been good for my business, hopefully you'll have as much luck with your store as I've had with mine. 


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

Im on the Anti-SW side, but hey, set up an account, and try it.... Just do it with small jobs, so if it bites you in the ass, it wont hurt as bad. Stay away from Promar... Proclassic is really good paint though. Compare prices on sundries as well. In Austin, SW sells the one sided sanding sponges (Do they have another name?) for 1.50, while everyone else sells them for $.60 My experience is they are way overpriced, their lower grade paints have major hatbanding/touch up issues, I've had horrible customer service, but that can be different at any store. Try them out, but dont trust them. While you're at it, try out the Corona brushes, that SW doesnt sell. The common consensus here is that they are far better than purdy. BM and PPG sells them.


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

I worked for them for 13 years, I use 40% SW now. Each store is has its own unique identity, definately not like a starbucks, so service or product selection may differ from one store to the next. They sure have a vast selection of products; interior, exterior, stains, industrial, wallpaper, drywall, you name it. Its best to get connected to a rep or a store manager who does outside calls. Then hone in on a few products that you like and get them to quote based on your potential volume or competitive pricing that you might have. I like some of their products, but not all hit the mark for quality that I am looking for. My favorites are exterior Duration, ProIndustrial Acrylic, Superpaint Interior (hit or miss on hide with some sheens and colors), Cashmere (sometimes).


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

They have free coffee .... other than that i have nothing :vs_coffee:


.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

karge said:


> Today I opened an account with SW at a new store that opened near me. I figured no harm in expanding my options and products. Ive been primarily with dulux and occasionally BM for those who want it. I was impressed with the customer service and the rates they will provide me and are also the only place Ive seen purdy brushes on sale. Ive used the Cashmere as provided by a customer for a small job I did and I believe Oppulance as well. Any honest feedback would be appreciated and no doubt a bit hesitant trying out a new product after so many years of the same. I know many contractors use it and its a good price point as well.. Thanks


Be sure to check them again tomorrow:vs_laugh:


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## Bigbrushy (Jul 2, 2017)

I like there contractor brushes


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

The complaints with SW seem mostly to do with pricing. But given that those costs are surely forwarded to the customer of the painting contractor, SW is left being just another average supply option that is actually more accessible than others in many cases.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

Bigbrushy said:


> I like there contractor brushes
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What do you think purdys are now?


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

Oh, a lot of SW's are open on Sunday. That can come in handy...


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## Bigbrushy (Jul 2, 2017)

I’d take the blue shuck contractor brush over any purdy. They do have some resemblances but the bristle material of the purdys don’t cut it for me. I’d rather use a broom


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Lets see..... what did we miss so far. Lets go with the facts and not my opinion. When you walk in, what do you see? A nice clean store, lots of products on the shelves that you probably will never use, college graduates as managers,,,,,,lots of Television advertising,,,,,,,lots of internet advertising,,,,,,stores in just about every town,,,,that costs $$$$$$$$$$! And how do you think they PAY for all of that? Two ways, they are VERY overpriced at retail, and their products are VERY low quality compared to some other brands. That being said, painters that have grown up with them or their fathers and grandfathers never used anything else seem to be literately hypnotized by them. And just like McDonald's their major marketing process is to be the absolute most convenient place to buy paint. Being the highest quality and having the best service are quite secondary to their thought process. Store managers are trained to run the business part of the store and receive very little to no product training beyond "good, better, best, contractor" grades and tint computer training. 

So if this is what is important to you and your business, have at it. But remember, you are JUST like most painting contractors in the US. And if that is your goal than you'll be quite satisfied buying from SW.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

When you take the emotion and personal preference out of the equation, SW is simply another viable supply option, albeit average compared to several other brands that are also overpriced. Although, SW does carry a Marine and Industrial line of products that are typically not available from other DIY stores.

Bottom line, a professional painter, worth his or her salt, will recognize that SW is simply another option in their supply arsenal. To dismiss SW as a non-viable option, is limiting one's full logistical capabilities. It simply becomes personal at that point.


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## loaded brush (Dec 27, 2007)

Just my experience. But after having been my sole supplier for almost 5 years I finally realized I was with SW for 4 years and 11 months too long. Why?
Constant employee turnover 
Constant price fighting 
Constant reformulating products (with negative outcomes)
Better pricing to homeowners when they have their public sales discount 
Lack of true real scenario product knowledge 
Overpriced sundries, just to name a few reasons. 
If you want a store with multiple locations, long hours, open 7 days a week, their the ticket. 
Other than those 3 reasons, ................................. I’m stumped.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

loaded brush said:


> Just my experience. But after having been my sole supplier for almost 5 years I finally realized I was with SW for 4 years and 11 months too long. Why?
> Constant employee turnover
> Constant price fighting
> Constant reformulating products (with negative outcomes)
> ...


 
I generally use two different independent suppliers in my supply chain. But I have no problem purchasing from SW when the need arises. Maybe because I'm not going to them for painting advice, or to shoot the sh!t.

If I wanted a personal relationship with my supplier, I'd be looking for an overpriced Mom and Pop shop that serves good coffee and breakfast.


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## cscny (Aug 16, 2017)

I have had the opposite experience. I switched from one company to another and was able to set up an account that had the paint discounted 15-25% more than even the contractor discount we had at the old company i was with. They were paying $51/gal for duration with the contractor discount, I get it for $42/gal. I mainly use duration, promar here and there if the commercial property we are doing work on specs it. I also get all of my paint and materials delivered right to the job site by them. I agree some of their sundries can be a little higher in price but I guess it still works in my favor when you figure in my bigger discount on the paints. As for the purdy rollers SW owns purdy so they are able to keep the cost for those down.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

loaded brush said:


> Just my experience. But after having been my sole supplier for almost 5 years I finally realized I was with SW for 4 years and 11 months too long. Why?
> Constant employee turnover
> Constant price fighting
> Constant reformulating products (with negative outcomes)
> ...


exactly. And the reason they are constantly reformulating products is NOT to make a better product, but to make that product perform as close as possible to the original product and make it cheaper to manufacture. They like many companies have been using the VOC laws as an excuse for years.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

cscny said:


> I have had the opposite experience. I switched from one company to another and was able to set up an account that had the paint discounted 15-25% more than even the contractor discount we had at the old company i was with. They were paying $51/gal for duration with the contractor discount, I get it for $42/gal. I mainly use duration, promar here and there if the commercial property we are doing work on specs it. I also get all of my paint and materials delivered right to the job site by them. I agree some of their sundries can be a little higher in price but I guess it still works in my favor when you figure in my bigger discount on the paints. As for the purdy rollers SW owns purdy so they are able to keep the cost for those down.


1-you need to work your rep over regarding that "great" Duration price.
2-i beat their purdy contractor "discount" at my full retail price! AND i give contractors a 10% discount off of that! So tell me again how they aren't screwing you on their Purdy prices? How can a little ole' P&L dealer give a better price on Purdy's? The answer is quite simple.

on a similar note, i was in Mcdonald's last night.....they have $6 hamburgers now?!?! REALLY? Do you suspect they are as good as the $6 Red Robin burgers? But hey, they are just up the street. And i really don't NEED that un-sweetened ice tea i always order but never get Un-sweet. After all, i am just diabetic so why should they care if i get a sweet tea with 100 times my daily allowance of sugar? They're everywhere and the biggest hamburger company in the world after all. I must be wrong.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I think the reason most painters aren't necessarily passionate about any one particular product brand, is that it's paint. Just paint. A building material that has a relatively short life cycle compared to other building materials. And, the fact that paint doesn't necessarily perform a critical role in a building infrastructure, such as a residential dwelling, there doesn't seem to be a need to limit one's options.


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## Delta Painting (Apr 27, 2010)

I think we have a shill post here. Could this OP in fact be SW rep?


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Delta Painting said:


> I think we have a shill post here. Could this OP in fact be SW rep?


it is a new month, isn't it? Time for the November interns to learn about paint!


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

cscny said:


> I have had the opposite experience. I switched from one company to another and was able to set up an account that had the paint discounted 15-25% more than even the contractor discount we had at the old company i was with. They were paying $51/gal for duration with the contractor discount, I get it for $42/gal. I mainly use duration, promar here and there if the commercial property we are doing work on specs it. I also get all of my paint and materials delivered right to the job site by them. I agree some of their sundries can be a little higher in price but I guess it still works in my favor when you figure in my bigger discount on the paints. As for the purdy rollers SW owns purdy so they are able to keep the cost for those down.


You think $42 a gallon is a good discounted price on paint?? You need to shop around around a little more, son. My go to paint is rated as an equivilant to Duration, and I pay $24 a gallon. My exterior is also considered an equivilant, or better and I pay $27 a gallon. Im a one man show, so I aint buying thousands of gallons a year either.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Woodco said:


> You think $42 a gallon is a good discounted price on paint?? You need to shop around around a little more, son. My go to paint is rated as an equivilant to Duration, and I pay $24 a gallon. My exterior is also considered an equivilant, or better and I pay $27 a gallon. Im a one man show, so I aint buying thousands of gallons a year either.


I suppose if you were competing in the same market as cscny, that price range might have an impact with the customer base. But at the end of the day, no matter what price you're getting for paint, the homeowner incurs the cost. so a guy is getting paint at a better price in Bismark than the other guy in Daly 
City. Who cares?

Why has buying paint become so competitive among painters?


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Woodco said:


> You think $42 a gallon is a good discounted price on paint?? You need to shop around around a little more, son. My go to paint is rated as an equivilant to Duration, and I pay $24 a gallon. My exterior is also considered an equivilant, or better and I pay $27 a gallon. Im a one man show, so I aint buying thousands of gallons a year either.




Well, what brand are you using? 

Inquiring minds want to know.


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## Lazerlnes (Sep 9, 2017)

I have used several SW products and aside from the stains, I have no complaints. But it has been rare to find one that has someone working there who has had their hands on a few hundred homes. Funny enough the ones who have give you the best customer service. They usually though are staffed with a young crew that think if they treat you like you don't know what your talking about, it somehow makes them seem more knowledgeable. And their prices...(mmph.must..not...curse...)They are never in my recommended coatings because of them.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> I suppose if you were competing in the same market as cscny, that price range might have an impact with the customer base. But at the end of the day, no matter what price you're getting for paint, the homeowner incurs the cost. so a guy is getting paint at a better price in Bismark than the other guy in Daly
> City. Who cares?
> 
> Why has buying paint become so competitive among painters?


ego. You'd be surprised how smart it make some people feel to know they bought paint cheaper than someone else!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Lazerlnes said:


> I have used several SW products and aside from the stains, I have no complaints. But it has been rare to find one that has someone working there who has had their hands on a few hundred homes. Funny enough the ones who have give you the best customer service. They usually though are staffed with a young crew that think if they treat you like you don't know what your talking about, it somehow makes them seem more knowledgeable. And their prices...(mmph.must..not...curse...)They are never in my recommended coatings because of them.


That's because part of the SW indoctrination.......er....training is telling them over and over again that they are the paint experts! For absolutely no reason other than they are lucky enough to work for SW! It's true! You got hired by us, so you are an expert!


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

CApainter said:


> I suppose if you were competing in the same market as cscny, that price range might have an impact with the customer base. But at the end of the day, no matter what price you're getting for paint, the homeowner incurs the cost. so a guy is getting paint at a better price in Bismark than the other guy in Daly
> City. Who cares?
> 
> Why has buying paint become so competitive among painters?




CA, it's one of those bragging rights things. Kinda like how big of brush you swing or how large a tip you spray with. 

I once had a fellow bragging about painting metal door jambs with a 4" brush. I told him I could probably drive tacks with a sledge hammer, but why would I want to? 


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

Delta Painting said:


> I think we have a shill post here. Could this OP in fact be SW rep?


Are you thinking Spamatola?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> ego. You'd be surprised how smart it make some people feel to know they bought paint cheaper than someone else!


But when the homeowner is burdened with the material costs anyways, what's the point of bragging about how cheap you got a few measly gallons of paint. Even if you were to gain a few bucks from the mark up, big deal. At the end of the day, it's the labor that makes the difference, not the paint.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

slinger58 said:


> Well, what brand are you using?
> 
> Inquiring minds want to know.
> 
> ...


PPG pure performance for interior, and Manor Hall for exterior. My paint rep did give me an especially good deal though. He says he got in trouble for the manor hall price he gave me.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

CApainter said:


> But when the homeowner is burdened with the material costs anyways, what's the point of bragging about how cheap you got a few measly gallons of paint. Even if you were to gain a few bucks from the mark up, big deal. At the end of the day, it's the labor that makes the difference, not the paint.


because you can get more jobs by saving the customers a few bucks in material cost. I make it a point to tell them I get a great deal on great paint. It makes them feel like they are getting a better deal,and better paint even if they arent. Psychology. I want people to think they are getting a deal if they hire me, which in a way they are, cuz my quality is a little higher than my prices.


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

CApainter said:


> Why has buying paint become so competitive among painters?


For me the answer is that I'm quoting labor and materials. I need a quality product at a reasonable price so that I can be competitive and stand behind the results.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

Gwarel said:


> For me the answer is that I'm quoting labor and materials. I need a quality product at a reasonable price so that I can be competitive and stand behind the results.


I guess its a good thing if my competition is bidding jobs at $50 a gallon, and I can beat them by $10, so the more people that shop at Sherwin, the better chance I have at landing jobs. Or, if I KNOW I will get the job, I can bid my materials at Sherwins MSRP, yet pay my prices and profit an extra few hundred bucks.


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

Woodco said:


> I guess its a good thing if my competition is bidding jobs at $50 a gallon, and I can beat them by $10, so the more people that shop at Sherwin, the better chance I have at landing jobs. Or, if I KNOW I will get the job, I can bid my materials at Sherwins MSRP, yet pay my prices and profit an extra few hundred bucks.


My thoughts are more along the lines of: If my competition is bidding using low end cheap paint, I need to be competitive while providing a better product. The consumer usually doesn't know the difference until I point it out to them.


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## ElegantPainting (Aug 25, 2014)

karge said:


> Today I opened an account with SW at a new store that opened near me. I figured no harm in expanding my options and products. Ive been primarily with dulux and occasionally BM for those who want it. I was impressed with the customer service and the rates they will provide me and are also the only place Ive seen purdy brushes on sale. Ive used the Cashmere as provided by a customer for a small job I did and I believe Oppulance as well. Any honest feedback would be appreciated and no doubt a bit hesitant trying out a new product after so many years of the same. I know many contractors use it and its a good price point as well.. Thanks


We switched to SW 4 summers ago. We use all their premium grade paints and could not be happier.


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## 007 Dave (Jun 22, 2016)

I've had pretty good luck with SW products except their deck stains. Their deck stains are not good at all. I have gotten good service from my SW stores and my rep here in central Indianapolis. What ever price they gave you ask them if they can do better. if you paint cabinets and haven't found a good cabinet paint try their Pro Classic. It has done great for me over a oil base primer.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

Gwarel said:


> My thoughts are more along the lines of: If my competition is bidding using low end cheap paint, I need to be competitive while providing a better product. The consumer usually doesn't know the difference until I point it out to them.


You can use this to your advantage. You tell your client that your competition will do one of two things. Either they will use cheap paint which wont last, or the will go to Sherwin and spend $60 a gallon which will land the client in the poorhouse. Then you convince them that you are unique in that you have a really good line on paint that is well above average, yet costs the same as the garbage paint the other guys will slap on their walls, so by hiring you, they get the best of both worlds.


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## Haris (Aug 23, 2017)

I've been dealing with SW for a few years now and have no complaints, customer service is great, my orders are always done in 10-15 minutes even when I have bigger orders. I'm happy with the pricing I'm getting from them, it's quite a bit better then BM even tho BM gives me a really good discount on their products. Sundries are overpriced at SW so it might be worth your time to shop around for that. When I'm giving them a quote 80% of my clients or potential clients don't ask where I'm buying my paint, if they are happy with my quote they'll hire us and they have no idea how much I'm paying for paint. It's contract work so why should customer really care how much we pay for paint and brushes and if they want premium paint they pay the difference and that's it.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Haris said:


> I've been dealing with SW for a few years now and have no complaints, customer service is great, my orders are always done in 10-15 minutes even when I have bigger orders. I'm happy with the pricing I'm getting from them, it's quite a bit better then BM even tho BM gives me a really good discount on their products. Sundries are overpriced at SW so it might be worth your time to shop around for that. When I'm giving them a quote 80% of my clients or potential clients don't ask where I'm buying my paint, if they are happy with my quote they'll hire us and they have no idea how much I'm paying for paint. It's contract work so why should customer really care how much we pay for paint and brushes and if they want premium paint they pay the difference and that's it.


I agree. Most homeowners don't have an opinion one way or another when it comes to brands of building materials like drywall, framing lumber, electrical wire, conduit, concrete, roofing material, and copper tubing, why would they concern themselves with what paint is being used.? And again, the labor rates, plus production rates, plus best practices, equaling reputation, is what typically seals a paint deal, not the label on a can of paint.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> But when the homeowner is burdened with the material costs anyways, what's the point of bragging about how cheap you got a few measly gallons of paint. Even if you were to gain a few bucks from the mark up, big deal. At the end of the day, it's the labor that makes the difference, not the paint.


Because it is a brag on how much money the painters think they are putting in their pockets because they bought the paint cheaper than the other guy. It's an ego thing because we business people know it is a false savings. But how many cousin eddy $79 a room "painters" are business people?


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Woodco said:


> PPG pure performance for interior, and Manor Hall for exterior. My paint rep did give me an especially good deal though. He says he got in trouble for the manor hall price he gave me.


OH MY GOD! They're still using that line of crap! I know the guy who started that! I didn't know it was company wide now. That's a subtle way to make you think you and the rep are buddies or some other personal connection. :vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh:


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Woodco said:


> I guess its a good thing if my competition is bidding jobs at $50 a gallon, and I can beat them by $10, so the more people that shop at Sherwin, the better chance I have at landing jobs. Or, if I KNOW I will get the job, I can bid my materials at Sherwins MSRP, yet pay my prices and profit an extra few hundred bucks.


and pay sales tax on that mark-up, right? RIGHT?


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

007 Dave said:


> I've had pretty good luck with SW products except their deck stains. Their deck stains are not good at all. I have gotten good service from my SW stores and my rep here in central Indianapolis. What ever price they gave you ask them if they can do better. if you paint cabinets and haven't found a good cabinet paint try their Pro Classic. It has done great for me over a oil base primer.


It may be a good product compared to their other products, or even PPG's products or Behr, but there ARE paints that make it look like crap. BUT since they aren't typically convenient to buy.........


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

PACman said:


> and pay sales tax on that mark-up, right? RIGHT?


I dont do it as a 'markup.' I just add it in my base price.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

PACman said:


> OH MY GOD! They're still using that line of crap! I know the guy who started that! I didn't know it was company wide now. That's a subtle way to make you think you and the rep are buddies or some other personal connection. :vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh:


Im not stupid. I get the sales tactics. However, you cant deny that $27 a gallon for manor hall exterior is a really good deal for someone who doesnt buy paint buy the hundreds of gallons.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> I agree. Most homeowners don't have an opinion one way or another when it comes to brands of building materials like drywall, framing lumber, electrical wire, conduit, concrete, roofing material, and copper tubing, why would they concern themselves with what paint is being used.? And again, the labor rates, plus production rates, plus best practices, equaling reputation, is what typically seals a paint deal, not the label on a can of paint.


BUT paint is not just a building material, but a decorative product. If you told a homeowner that they had to buy the carpet you wanted to sell them or the cabinets you "use all the time because i get a discount and the place i buy them from is on every street corner (like a hooker btw.)" or even the brand and style of faucets you are going to use, they probably wouldn't be very happy. What if you told a customer "i use promar 200 flat dover white because it's $40 a gallon(when you actually pay $15), the store manager is my wife's nephew, i pass the SW store everyday anyway after i get my starbucks, and i get a rebate at the end of the year from SW, how would they feel? What are you actually "selling" them? New construction is one thing but residential repaints? I really wonder how some painters get those jobs. They really aren't doing anything to distinguish themselves from any other painter, and at that point they are just a cheap paint applicator.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Woodco said:


> Im not stupid. I get the sales tactics. However, you cant deny that $27 a gallon for manor hall exterior is a really good deal for someone who doesnt buy paint buy the hundreds of gallons.


Yeah, it's a decent price. For a paint that is under $12 a gallon store cost.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Update! For the OP/suspected SW intern/trainee/troll-
Duration interior flat-$65.49/ gallon per their website
During the 30% off sales-$45.84/ gallon
During the 40% off sales-(5 times this year btw) $39.29/ gallon

And SW has had NO sales for less than 6 weeks total year to date.

So any Tom,Dick, or Mary DIY'er gets a better price than you at LEAST 6 times a year. Even if they buy 1 gallon in thirty years.

Kind of makes you all warm and fuzzy inside, doesn't it?


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

PACman said:


> Yeah, it's a decent price. For a paint that is under $12 a gallon store cost.


What do you charge for your equivilant?

Let me rephrase that: would you just offer me up that good of a price for your equivilant when I dont buy thousands of gallons a year?

Actually, I know Im getting a good deal, cuz I've gotten comments from the cashiers about how good of a price Im getting when I pick it up.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> BUT paint is not just a building material, but a decorative product. If you told a homeowner that they had to buy the carpet you wanted to sell them or the cabinets you "use all the time because i get a discount and the place i buy them from is on every street corner (like a hooker btw.)" or even the brand and style of faucets you are going to use, they probably wouldn't be very happy. What if you told a customer "i use promar 200 flat dover white because it's $40 a gallon(when you actually pay $15), the store manager is my wife's nephew, i pass the SW store everyday anyway after i get my starbucks, and i get a rebate at the end of the year from SW, how would they feel? What are you actually "selling" them? New construction is one thing but residential repaints? I really wonder how some painters get those jobs. They really aren't doing anything to distinguish themselves from any other painter, and at that point they are just a cheap paint applicator.


Yea, I get trendy. But unless you tack a brass plated "This here wall was painted with California Paints" insignia on every single living room you paint, no ones going to give a butt lick about what paint was used.

At the end of the day, a good painter can make any crappy paint look good. And that's a fact Jack.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

Thats why I stick with the 'step above contractor grade' rule of thumb (for walls). Keep your aura and emerald, and I'll keep the $30 a gallon I save.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Woodco said:


> What do you charge for your equivilant?
> 
> Let me rephrase that: would you just offer me up that good of a price for your equivilant when I dont buy thousands of gallons a year?
> 
> Actually, I know Im getting a good deal, cuz I've gotten comments from the cashiers about how good of a price Im getting when I pick it up.


Redseal Supreme Interior. Exact same resin package with different rheology modifiers and higher Tio2 percentage.
Flat-$36.99 MSRP
Eggshell-$42.99 MSRP
Semigloss-$44.99 MSRP
I go by those MSRP prices because there is already enough profit at that price.

And because you are a contractor and a generally nice person i would give you the following prices if you just walked in the door on your way to the SW store 5 minutes away.
Flat-$29.59
Eggshell-$34.39
Semigloss-$35.99

And for a regular customer buying a decent volume i can go lower, and can even get special costs to go even lower if i have too. Depends on the situation.

And i can sell you Purdy's for somewhere around 30-35% Less than SW will sell them to you WITH their best contractor discount.

HOW? Low overhead. No $5.00-10.00 mark-up for advertising and marketing for starters. No $10,000-12,000 a month payment to SW for (renting) the store from them. (think about this, if a store sells 10,000 gallons a month, that is $1.00-1.20 a gallon mark-up to "pay" rent on a store and property they usually already own.)


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> Yea, I get trendy. But unless you tack a brass plated "This here wall was painted with California Paints" insignia on every single living room you paint, no ones going to give a butt lick about what paint was used.
> 
> At the end of the day, a good painter can make any crappy paint look good. And that's a fact Jack.


That's what most painters think! But have you ever spent a week in a busy paint store? I hear this all the time-"i hired a painter because he was recommended to me, but i really don't like the way the paint is holding up."
And believe it or not, it DOES reflect on the painter, because by association the end customer thinks they have not gotten the "value" they expected. I hear this ALL the time, in fact it is the major reason i opened a paint store. I heard it the most while working at Menard's and Lowe's, so it is not just the higher end home owners who feel this way. 

But does the contractor ever hear this? Typically not. Why? The main reason is that these homeowners are never going to call that painter back. They might, but in reality they don't. Or they may say they are satisfied just to be nice.

This is part of the "disconnect" that i feel is going on in the paint industry today. Homeowners are getting more an more info on paint quality, (true or not true) and most painters are just assuming that whatever they normally use is good enough to placate them. And quite often, a lot more often than someone who doesn't actually "sell" paint would ever be aware of.

So next time you are talking to a client about a custom or repaint job for their home, ask them what they expect as to the paint quality you will use. Many will be happy with whatever you want to use but i think many painters would be surprised at the answer they get. A lot of people of course will say Behr, some will say Sherwin Williams, but does that really open the expectation up to using say, Premium Plus or PM 200? What they are really saying is they expect high quality product such and such from those companies. Not a contractor product. For some of them Cashmere, Superpaint, Durations will be fine. But Ben Moore isn't in business because every homeowner wants Cashmere, Superpaint, Or Durations. There MUST be a market for higher grade paints! The difference is that a DIY'er will buy the product they think will meet there quality expectations, and a painter will usually grossly underestimate the importance of that quality level to that homeowner.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

CApainter said:


> Yea, I get trendy. But unless you tack a brass plated "This here wall was painted with California Paints" insignia on every single living room you paint, *no ones going to give a butt lick about what paint was used.*
> 
> At the end of the day, a good painter can make any crappy paint look good. And that's a fact Jack.


I know quite a few painters who have had to repaint because whatever sherwin product they put on the wall did not match the BM color the HO picked. HO's would and do care if you tell them you used a lower quality paint to pocket a few extra $$$.


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## SWPB (Oct 6, 2016)

Just a few tidbits:

1) SW is like McDonalds--every location is unique in terms of service level and the product does a good job if you select the right item.
2) SW Sundries: it's standardized. I think its 15% for contractors and 20% off for case pricing. They make great money on sundries . . . to help offset the low price to the contractor.
3) SW Retail Business: on average, SW has about 10% retail. The list prices are so inflated so that they can run sales all year long. 40% off an 80% gross margin is awesome.
4) Most of every product SW has developed is a knock off of something. Started with Kilz primers in the 90s, XIM products later, and various competitive products throughout the past 20 years. Like any knockoff, the goal is to get in the same ballpark (not beat the incumbent) in terms of performance--slightly less quality, then sell it for a similar amount. This generates incredibly higher margins than buying it from the original maker.
5) Homeowners don't know anything about paint. They see your finished product and say "it looks new, smells new, and has a new color." Fast forward 1 year later and they could be cussing you for paint that burnishes to high heaven (ProMar), crappy caulking that has cracked on their trims (C850 caulk or NR3000), or oil-based paint that has yellowed in their dark basement. 

You get what you pay for . . . Plain & Simple. Why wouldn't you spend $20 - $100 more per small project to insure satisfied customers that refer the hell out of you.

6) Great SW Managers become reps, who then promote to be district managers. If someone is performing & willing to relocate, they will be in a position for less than 2 years. It's a relationship business and I hate rebuilding relationships.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I've used just about every paint imaginable in my illustrious painting career. Most performed adequately enough to keep me rolling. I don't think using Sherwin Williams paints are going to sink any contractor ships anytime soon. But poor painting and business practices certainly will.

I like diversity. I'm from California after all.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

I just love these SW threads......

We get to listen to PAC rant and rave about how he was treated at SW and their business practices. Again. And, again.

We hear how some are satisfied with their local SW and some are not. Again. And, again.

We hear how SW gouges the contractor. Again. And, again.

We learn that PAC has more time on his hands than most painters. Again. And, again.

We hear how some people flat out don't like SW, Behr, PPG, etc.. Again. And, again.



SW has their business model. Most painters have theirs. I never told SW or any other paint manufacturer how to run their business. Never recall them telling me how to run mine. Not once did I ever hear a comment from any manufacturer telling me what my profit / net margin should be. Never occurred to me to tell them what theirs should be.

In the end, the customer pays for the materials anyway don't they?


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Wolfgang said:


> I just love these SW threads......
> 
> We get to listen to PAC rant and rave about how he was treated at SW and their business practices. Again. And, again.
> 
> ...


I have the sneaking suspicion that there is a Behr thread in our future>


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Not from me.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Wolfgang said:


> Not from me.


Nor me, although i'm sure i will feel compelled to participate when it happens.


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## Haris (Aug 23, 2017)

Haris said:


> I've been dealing with SW for a few years now and have no complaints, customer service is great, my orders are always done in 10-15 minutes even when I have bigger orders. I'm happy with the pricing I'm getting from them, it's quite a bit better then BM even tho BM gives me a really good discount on their products. Sundries are overpriced at SW so it might be worth your time to shop around for that. When I'm giving them a quote 80% of my clients or potential clients don't ask where I'm buying my paint, if they are happy with my quote they'll hire us and they have no idea how much I'm paying for paint. It's contract work so why should customer really care how much we pay for paint and brushes and if they want premium paint they pay the difference and that's it.





PACman said:


> BUT paint is not just a building material, but a decorative product. If you told a homeowner that they had to buy the carpet you wanted to sell them or the cabinets you "use all the time because i get a discount and the place i buy them from is on every street corner (like a hooker btw.)" or even the brand and style of faucets you are going to use, they probably wouldn't be very happy. What if you told a customer "i use promar 200 flat dover white because it's $40 a gallon(when you actually pay $15), the store manager is my wife's nephew, i pass the SW store everyday anyway after i get my starbucks, and i get a rebate at the end of the year from SW, how would they feel? What are you actually "selling" them? New construction is one thing but residential repaints? I really wonder how some painters get those jobs. They really aren't doing anything to distinguish themselves from any other painter, and at that point they are just a cheap paint applicator.


I just got back home from doing an estimate for a new house, got sq/ft and all other details I needed from the builder. He asked me what paint store I'm dealing with and I told him SW, he was ok great I'll send my wife over there then to pick out some colors. And that was that, why should I feel the need to explain to him why I'm buying my paint at SW and go over all those details, it's not necessary. While I was there a couple of drywallers were boarding the place and I'm pretty sure builder didn't ask them either what brand of drywall they were using and where they bought it. People care about finished product and if you give them a good quality paint job they couldn't care less what brand you've used and how much you paid for the material.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Statistically, more jobs have probably been sold using BEHR than any other paint brand. LOLTHGMNAFTTFAA!!


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## Brökar Painting (Apr 29, 2015)

We work solely out of SW. We are lucky to have knowledgable employees/managers and a great knowledgable sales rep. We have our account and we use their Emerald line on 95% of what we do. We get great discounts on it since we are the store's largest contractor for Emerald. The discount has been stable. They haven't jumped around on us. The sales rep has even been on our side going up against those wonderful customers that are impossible to make happy. The only time SW is not being used is if the customer requests something else or has purchased their own paint.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Haris said:


> I just got back home from doing an estimate for a new house, got sq/ft and all other details I needed from the builder. He asked me what paint store I'm dealing with and I told him SW, he was ok great I'll send my wife over there then to pick out some colors. And that was that, why should I feel the need to explain to him why I'm buying my paint at SW and go over all those details, it's not necessary. While I was there a couple of drywallers were boarding the place and I'm pretty sure builder didn't ask them either what brand of drywall they were using and where they bought it. People care about finished product and if you give them a good quality paint job they *couldn't care less what brand you've used and how much you paid for the material.*


Have a BM color Spec'd then have it mixed in a Sherwin product up at the Yellowstone Club, you would quickly find your self eating the cost of the paint and a new paint job. Happened recently with one of my contractors and 30 gallons of Aura in a CSP color.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

ouch. I always have a conversation about what kind of paint to use, and ask if its acceptable to match the color to my store. Certain people are pretty set on paint stores. I dont argue with them, but I explain that I cant be responsible for issues arising from their paint decision. 

If I use PPG and it doesnt touch up, I have to repaint at my cost. If they make me use SW or Behr and it doesnt touch up (shocker, I know) I can blame their paint choice.


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## Haris (Aug 23, 2017)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Have a BM color Spec'd then have it mixed in a Sherwin product up at the Yellowstone Club, you would quickly find your self eating the cost of the paint and a new paint job. Happened recently with one of my contractors and 30 gallons of Aura in a CSP color.


If I remember correctly CSP colours selection is designed for Aura only and my BM store guys refused to tint it using any other BM paints, CSP colours "shift" in different lighting I was told and they only guarantee true colour match when using Aura. Another thing I do with every pail and gallon of paint I buy from any 
paint retailer is check their color match on original paint swatch to make sure it's a 100% match. Learned that the hard way when I assumed color match was good and it wasn't and had to redo few rooms ( got paint for free because BM guys screwed up) but labor was on my dime, since then I always double check the color match regardless of which store I'm dealing with. It's fine 99% of the time but there was times when I had to take it back to get it dialed in.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Haris said:


> cocomonkeynuts said:
> 
> 
> > Have a BM color Spec'd then have it mixed in a Sherwin product up at the Yellowstone Club, you would quickly find your self eating the cost of the paint and a new paint job. Happened recently with one of my contractors and 30 gallons of Aura in a CSP color.
> ...


The CSP formula is only available for Aura, can't do it in anything else unless I color match it but it won't be the same. Not only that but BM Doesn't even want use to even print the formula on the label (it won't by default). 

Colors across companies won't ever be the same. I only mentioned the CSP colors because we can't even replicate them in other BM products. Doesnt matter the color no way a HO at the YC would be happy with a 'close enough' color match with some contractors grade paint. I even had one guy put Aura in his mobile home recently, again a CSP color. The contractor kept saying "I can't believe I'm putting aura in a trailer". It was only a few gallons but the owner would not accept a match even though he wanted Been.


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

I used to have colors custom matched to my preferred manufacturer but over time I have decided it's not worth the risk or headache, so I have instead tried to find products I trust by the various paint stores in my area to use their paint. In the case I am handed a big box color, I supply a couple of fan decks and try to steer the choice in my direction.


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## Haris (Aug 23, 2017)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> The CSP formula is only available for Aura, can't do it in anything else unless I color match it but it won't be the same. Not only that but BM Doesn't even want use to even print the formula on the label (it won't by default).
> 
> Colors across companies won't ever be the same. I only mentioned the CSP colors because we can't even replicate them in other BM products. Doesnt matter the color no way a HO at the YC would be happy with a 'close enough' color match with some contractors grade paint. I even had one guy put Aura in his mobile home recently, again a CSP color. The contractor kept saying "I can't believe I'm putting aura in a trailer". It was only a few gallons but the owner would not accept a match even though he wanted Been.


That's exactly what I was told by our BM store owner so whenever I run into a client that wants to use CSP colors I tell them that we would have to use Aura and it would cost more, sometimes they agree to pay the additional fee and sometimes they'll find another color that's not CSP. I'm also very picky when it comes to color matching and tinting in general and always deal with store managers because I trust them the most and have known them for many many years. It pisses other employees of and I've been told multiple times Haris we know how to tint paint too and my reply always is I know you do but I prefer to deal with Jordan who is BM store manager or Brett SW manager. Got burned in the past by regular employees so I'm not taking any chances.


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## Toolseeker (May 25, 2017)

I am in the process of changing to BM after years dealing with SW. I'm kind of surprised SW pricing inconsistencies has not been brought up more. That is one of the main reasons for me to switch. What you pay for a gallon of paint this week doesn't mean it's what you'll pay next week. The biggest disadvantage of changing is the store hours at the BM dealer. I haven't used but a few BM products yet but so far am happy with the change.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Toolseeker said:


> I am in the process of changing to BM after years dealing with SW. I'm kind of surprised SW pricing inconsistencies has not been brought up more. That is one of the main reasons for me to switch. What you pay for a gallon of paint this week doesn't mean it's what you'll pay next week. *The biggest disadvantage of changing is the store hours at the BM dealer.* I haven't used but a few BM products yet but so far am happy with the change.


Make friends with your BM guys. At my store, even though I already work 50+ hours a week I give my cell # to any of my contractors and frequent buyers so I am always available outside of my normal store hours. Doesn't hurt to ask if the hours can be flexible.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Toolseeker said:


> I am in the process of changing to BM after years dealing with SW. I'm kind of surprised SW pricing inconsistencies has not been brought up more. That is one of the main reasons for me to switch. What you pay for a gallon of paint this week doesn't mean it's what you'll pay next week. The biggest disadvantage of changing is the store hours at the BM dealer. I haven't used but a few BM products yet but so far am happy with the change.


? I've heard this weekly for over thirty years! When I worked for SW it was daily! But very few painters ever feel compelled to do anything about it like you. They don't seem to understand that by not taking their business to another paint store they are actually enabling SW's piss poor pricing! If people keep putting up with it they'll keep doing it! Just like they have for at least 33 years! Good on you for not putting up with it!


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

The "Guess Your Price This Week Game" has been brought up before on this forum. It's what has kept me out of SW for years. 

And as PAC said, as long as painters keep coming back for more , SW will keep playing it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

In all my years with SW I can honestly say they've never messed with my prices. The only time it changes is if there's an increase and they notify me a month in advance. 

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Rbriggs82 said:


> In all my years with SW I can honestly say they've never messed with my prices. The only time it changes is if there's an increase and they notify me a month in advance.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk


Same here. In fact, they periodically offer to check to see if my prices can be improved. I usually let them.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

RH said:


> Same here. In fact, they periodically offer to check to see if my prices can be improved. I usually let them.


Yup same here. 

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk


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## Haris (Aug 23, 2017)

Rbriggs82 said:


> In all my years with SW I can honestly say they've never messed with my prices. The only time it changes is if there's an increase and they notify me a month in advance.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk


Same here, my prices have been consistent for years and if there is an increase which doesn't happen often I would be notified. I'm surprised to hear that some people are having such issues.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

The issues are well known to most people. Of course as with any company as large as SW there will be variations across the company. But from MY experience it happens more frequently in larger cities. In more rural areas store personnel tend to stay at the same store for a longer period of time, which makes it easier for them to learn and use the price input system and approval requirements. In more urban areas, there tends to be much more turn-over in personnel, with less training and experience in the pricing issue. Then of course there are the people (reps and store managers) who will quote you a price that they can't get an approval on, and they will try to keep track of your pricing manually at the store because it can't be put into the computer without that approval unless they are over-riding pricing at the store. (they will usually get caught during an audit and if there are enough violations they will fail the audit and get the axe!)

There is also the issue of multiple pricing authorization levels, as in store level, district level, regional level, division level, and stores group level. In some districts for example, a few selected store managers will have a blanket authorization to go down to the district level of pricing with-out having to get a pre-approval from the district manager. Those store managers are authorized to input the district level pricing into the computer database for you account, so that pricing will automatically come up on your account and will stay as your price until any price increase. If your price is being kept manually at the store and only the manager or assistant know what it is or are the only people willing to override the price, you will get whatever price comes up on the screen. This has been an issue since SW started using computer POS systems.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

That's the best explanation of the issue I've heard. Around here, personnel turnover is just mind boggling. I gave up 10 years ago on getting to know the store manager because in 6-12 months there'd be a different one. 

For those that have a good relationship with their local SW, I don't doubt what you're saying. I just know what my experience has been for the 30+ years I've been self employed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ramus8T (Jan 14, 2020)

Woodco said:


> You think $42 a gallon is a good discounted price on paint?? You need to shop around around a little more, son. My go to paint is rated as an equivilant to Duration, and I pay $24 a gallon. My exterior is also considered an equivilant, or better and I pay $27 a gallon. Im a one man show, so I aint buying thousands of gallons a year either.



What paint do you use that’s the equivalent of Duration?


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Ramus8T said:


> What paint do you use that’s the equivalent of Duration?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 @Woodco used to use manor hall as an duration equivalent. Not sure what hes using these days however I'm 100% sure hes not getting manor hall for $24/gallon anymore.


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## Ramus8T (Jan 14, 2020)

I get Duration satin for 38.50/gal and haven’t been loving the product as of late due to touch up reasons. Trying to find a good quality paint that touches up well. 

Learning the trade on S-W paint currently. 


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## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

Ramus8T said:


> I get Duration satin for 38.50/gal and haven’t been loving the product as of late due to touch up reasons. Trying to find a good quality paint that touches up well.
> 
> Learning the trade on S-W paint currently.
> 
> ...



Move over to Benjamin Moore Regal and see how that does for you. Probably better...


P.S. One of the biggest things about touch-up is paint. But the other is technique. Don't use a brush to touch up a rolled wall, for example. I do small touch ups on rolled walls with an equivalent nap miniroller...


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Ramus8T said:


> I get Duration satin for 38.50/gal and haven’t been loving the product as of late due to touch up reasons. Trying to find a good quality paint that touches up well.
> 
> Learning the trade on S-W paint currently.
> 
> ...


We are talking interior, correct? 
I ran into a problem touching-up Duration a few years back, and have been scared to touch the stuff ever since. I had polka dots all over a large room, and had to re-paint the entire place. 

The Rep said that the issue was most common in their Lower VOC paints, and in certain colors more than others, and became a problem in Duration when they tried to become more VOC compliant. He directed me to Cashmere, which I have been loving ever since.

*I've often thought that Duration looked and felt a little too "plasticky" for me, and rolled on too thick and textured for my personal taste.


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## Ramus8T (Jan 14, 2020)

I’ll look into cashmere as I’ve also had issues touching up Duration interior. 


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## SWPB (Oct 6, 2016)

Cashmere Flat isn't so bad at touching up, but the higher sheens require a bit more artistry, especially in those two story open foyers where the natural light amplifies all of the drywall imperfections. I've seen Cashmere Flat run anywhere from $18 - $30 depending on the number of gallons needed (example: a 500 gallon job will get the low price from job quote). Typically, most interior repaints go with Duration Home for its wash ability--better than Cashmere.


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## vwbowman (May 15, 2017)

Be sure to check each of your invoices to see that the price quoted is the the price charged. I have gained quite a few customers for this very reason! Also, remember they only sell retail to suckers, there is always a sale and sometimes that sale will be better than your quoted price...


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## SW2PPG (Jun 14, 2019)

vwbowman said:


> Be sure to check each of your invoices to see that the price quoted is the the price charged. I have gained quite a few customers for this very reason! Also, remember they only sell retail to suckers, there is always a sale and sometimes that sale will be better than your quoted price...


Sherwin doesn't run that many retail sales....lain:


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## celicaxx (May 29, 2015)

The only "miracle" product that SW makes to me is "Masterhide" ceiling paint. It might be the same as PM400 ceiling paint, not sure. It's the deadest flat you can buy, and really well greyed out, it hides a lot of problems on ceilings, and is cheap. Other companies make whiter and brighter ceiling paints, but I do love that ceiling paint for 99% of stuff, as it hides so many flaws and customers are always happy. 

Otherwise, SW is more as CAPainter said, another supply house you can use, to get adequate paint at an adequate price. It provides a very turnkey solution for a paint contractor just starting out, and you may well outgrow them for a lot of products (I pretty much see no reason to regularly use any SW product on trim, for example) but they have everything available, lots of trick paints ala Armoseal, Kem Aqua, etc, etc, not comparable to a Home Depot or Lowes. Unfortunately my sort of problem with SW is a lot of times the "cool stuff" isn't really advertised, because it would cannibalize sales from their other products. Solo at least was a better trim paint than Proclassic, and rated for exterior (my rep told me Solo actually was near Duration in durability outdoors...) and retailed cheaper than Proclassic, and much of the time their competing lines like interior Duration/Emerald, etc, but getting it would be a week lead time. 

Another advantage to SW is they will offer a generous credit account to anyone who shows up, which explains their marketshare, a lot of painters use SW for this reason. Easiest credit accounts in the business, easier than Lowes and HD even.

To me all the paint manufacturers have issues. I've surprisingly had more issues with BM than SW, but I've used more BM (with the exception of ceiling paint.) I find SW more predictable to use, personally, and like slower dry times. (I think this is where most people end up with SW problems, not following their 4 hour recoat times...) BM usually looks a tad better, due to less graying out of colors, and usually looks truer to the color swatch for that reason. You can use I think "brilliant white" (or something like that) base in some SW products to get a BM-esque true white with more coats. I think as far as value for money, SW generally wins, Cashmere vs say, Ben, is no contest, Cashmere wins and is usually cheaper, and Cashmere vs Ultra Spec is again, no contest, Ultra Spec does beat PM200, though. Some things SW doesn't win, though. I'd put Advance right in the same league with Emerald Urethane, but it's normally cheaper ($50ish retail for Advance last I checked, Emerald Urethane is about $80ish retail and $high 50s-low 60s contractor price.) Advance has slightly worse coverage due to either not graying out or less titanium, and it handles worse for runs/etc (but they're both similar) but they both dry pretty equivalently hard and level well. Where the greyed out SW colors tend to make more sense (or using a tinted primer first, maybe) is strangely creams and light yellows, I think BM is usually better for darker colors, though. Again, BM definitely is more accurate to color swatches. For exterior I would actually honestly trust BM more. I was at a house with aluminum siding that had no peeling with the exception of the failing vinyl coating on one side, that had a can of Mooregard from the 90s in it. Painted in the 90s and the house looked like it was done maybe two years ago. 

I've not honestly used much PPG. I'd like to use more. I liked Breakthrough I bought, and it's held up well on a table. Recent-ish Flood deck stain held up fantastic at a customer's house and my own house. I sort of like my PPG rep's attitude most compared to SW, the rep seemed to have more true paint knowledge and seemed less salesmanlike. PPG will undercut both for pricing, and has the same or more availability of specialty products as SW. But, I can't give much personal experience with them. 

Really, keep on good terms with all 3 providers of paint, they all have good and bad, and paint is a consumer commodity and not a religion.


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## canopainting (Feb 12, 2013)

I think PAC is right. Don't order paint from some smuck of a kid who just started or your asking for trouble. I stopped using SW last year after buying paint from them for 10 years. I had problems this their paint, tint float, ect, also I don't think the exterior paint is worth all the hype. Ive gone back to look at exteriors with medium base colors, duration and it doesn't hold up in the sun like they claim. Trying to get lacquer from them is like pulling teeth. I must say the sales reps Ive had from SW are the best I've ever worked with. I only buy masking and some of the Pro industrial products now. Ive ben buying from Dunn Edwards now for a while. I like the emerald they sell for interior and exterior trim but thats it, oh and i use the PM 200 for ceilings.


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