# ...production advice...



## deadend (Aug 1, 2013)

...long story short...Hampton Inn 54'' vinyl...approx. 2500sq yds...

1st floor-large breakfast area-16' ceilings w/scissor lift
many additional rooms 9' ceilings w/mini-scaffold

2,3,4-identical 8' ceilings
no base no ceilings no frames

crew of 3-1 male 2 female
paste master machine/no counter

...this being our largest/longest project yet...any input regarding an efficient order of operations would be duly noted and appreciated...who should be doing what when basically...thanks in advance...:notworthy:


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## pinchegordo (Jul 3, 2011)

Wowza thas a beeg one!


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

We don't hang paper. Have your best hanger starting the strips and your not so good hanger prepping the walls ahead of the hanger. If they are all good pick who you think should be the main hanger and who preps.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Sounds like the whole place is VWC. Are you responsible for prepping the walls or is the drywaller sizing the walls?


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## deadend (Aug 1, 2013)

...sorry...yes...all non-woven VWC...

...no...working with a partner of nearly 3 years now...we take care of him...and we walk into well finished walls...seen a bit better in smaller projects...but for what it is we certainly don't complain...his wife does true Venetian plaster so...he gets it...


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## deadend (Aug 1, 2013)

cdpainting said:


> We don't hang paper. Have your best hanger starting the strips and your not so good hanger prepping the walls ahead of the hanger. If they are all good pick who you think should be the main hanger and who preps.


...thanks...going to have my wife/paint partner training on this job with us...really looking forward to see what our production can become when we can concentrate on just hanging trimming and busting...

...my partner and I are relatively equally skilled when we balance her experience with my physicality...and my wife will catch on quick no doubt...given that and the length of the project...we'll have plenty of time to try several arrangements...

...appreciate the reply and have already learned much from your posts...thanks again...


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

I would have one person on the machine all day pulling and cleaning up, the other 2 hanging like hell, and I would get a counter for sure.


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## deadend (Aug 1, 2013)

pinchegordo said:


> Wowza thas a beeg one!


...yes yes...about 200% of our largest project to date...I'll post pics in the current jobs thread as soon as I can manage it...


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## deadend (Aug 1, 2013)

Gwarel said:


> I would have one person on the machine all day pulling and cleaning up, the other 2 hanging like hell, and I would get a counter for sure.


...the counter is a rub...but all things considered...with the addition of just the paster and another skilled trainee...I firmly believe we will already see at least a doubling of our past production...include the counter and that increases again...

...also...using a full width x 8' table...we're thinking we can easily cut against the machine for our randoms and pre-cut our matches...


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

The counter will find the match for you. If it is a straight across match and the repeat is 25 1/4" repeat, then 4 repeats is 101". If you pull 96" cut it and then pull the excess to 101" and you're back where you started.


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## deadend (Aug 1, 2013)

Gwarel said:


> The counter will find the match for you. If it is a straight across match and the repeat is 25 1/4" repeat, then 4 repeats is 101". If you pull 96" cut it and then pull the excess to 101" and you're back where you started.


...being as this is our first project this size...we are hesitant the others that we have the possibility of doing...after that nugget you just gave me there...they don't seem THAT out of reach...

...it would go far to ease our travel expenses if we could find a production rate that we can comfortably make a profit at...


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## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

If you want job security you can follow this guy's example.
You'll be chasing bubbles and fixing edges for the next year and a half.

I am so glad I no longer hang commercial... that's a young man's game... on second thought; I wish I were hanging commercial vinyl again.





 



:cowboy:


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## deadend (Aug 1, 2013)

Underdog said:


> If you want job security you can follow this guy's example.
> You'll be chasing bubbles and fixing edges for the next year and a half.
> 
> I am so glad I no longer hang commercial... that's a young man's game... on second thought; I wish I were hanging commercial vinyl again.
> ...


...well sir...hope there be no braggadocious tone detected when I thank the lord I am ONLY 30...if only my heart head and body felt that YOUNG...I'm thankful to do what I can do right now as I have certainly worked much much harder for much much less...

...my partner is a lady in her 60's and she trucks right on side of me 10hrs a day sometimes...so you're only as young as you feel right...?...let the naivete bashing begin...


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## deadend (Aug 1, 2013)

Underdog said:


> If you want job security you can follow this guy's example.
> You'll be chasing bubbles and fixing edges for the next year and a half.
> 
> I am so glad I no longer hang commercial... that's a young man's game... on second thought; I wish I were hanging commercial vinyl again.
> ...


...completely failed to mention that that very video...I humbly admit has been a great confidence boost for me...I realize the title says introduction...but is that's good work...I'm really good...and if that's really good work...I'm really really good...once again...that is spoken with a very acquired taste for humility...


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## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

Wow, kudos to her. I'm almost 60 and I just took a prescription anti-inflammatory and a knock off Vicodin in anticipation for tomorrow. One of my knees flared up, I hate it when they do that.
In my defense I've been hanging paper since I was 15.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

We had a lady in her 60's working for us last summer, She out worked the younger guys. She did interior painting for us. I wouldn't let her climb an extension ladder even tho she could I wouldn't let her.


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

Underdog said:


> If you want job security you can follow this guy's example.


Ha! I know Tom. He's a good guy.

To the OP, get a counter for the machine.
As for the non-woven w/c, it EATS paste. Add at least 33% to your paste estimate.


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

And oh yeah, buy a torch.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

cdpainting said:


> We had a lady in her 60's working for us last summer, She out worked the younger guys. She did interior painting for us. I wouldn't let her climb an extension ladder even tho she could I wouldn't let her.


I don't think you are hiring well. If you have a sixty year old woman as ur best producer. LOL


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Oden said:


> I don't think you are hiring well. If you have a sixty year old woman as ur best producer. LOL


Our lead painter quit and went back to school in her late 50s, she was a great example of how painting is more about balance, rhythm, and finesse than it is about brute force. It was funny to watch her teach the 25-year old hulks how to put up extension ladders.


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## Hanger in VT (Aug 5, 2008)

I’ve hung vinyl in a dozen Hampton Inns back in the day, along with many larger hotels. A good commercial hanger will install 150+ linear yards a day in a hotel setting, (5) 30 yard bolts. When I was breaking in a rookie, I’d have them mix paste, fetch water, paste strips on the machine and lay them out in the rooms ahead of me. After the helper had a couple of rooms pasted, and the rooms scrapped, I would hang the top half of a few strips, and let the rookie finish the bottom half of each. This let him, or her, get the feel of handling vinyl, smoothing out strips, trimming bottoms, washing seams, etc. Usually within a short period of time, I’d teach them to cut seams as they go. Hotel hanging is usually fairly simple to learn, particularly once you get the room layouts down. It is very physical, however, and I can’t imagine a 60 year old woman banging out substantial yardage. I am 60 myself, and I’d rather slit my throat than hang hotel vinyl.

And I would surely get a counter. They are accurate and help production rates. Strips hang much easier if they are cut short enough that they are two or three inches short of reaching the floor. On a typical 8’ wall, I’d cut my strips @ 94”. Normally vinyl or carpet base covers the bottom anyhow. Much better and faster than cutting strips @ 97”, and having the strips bunch up from hitting the floor.


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## deadend (Aug 1, 2013)

*...call me scared but...*



ProWallGuy said:


> And oh yeah, buy a torch.


...the torch comes off a bit outdated to me...we use an electric heat gun...works very well with much less risk...

...and about your guy tom...no offense...just being honest...and like I said...I'm well aware that those videos aren't an accurate representation of his paying work...


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## deadend (Aug 1, 2013)

...we've had quite a few snags getting started but hoping to get to those production rates once we get the kinks out...


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## deadend (Aug 1, 2013)

Hanger in VT said:


> I’ve hung vinyl in a dozen Hampton Inns back in the day, along with many larger hotels. A good commercial hanger will install 150+ linear yards a day in a hotel setting, (5) 30 yard bolts. When I was breaking in a rookie, I’d have them mix paste, fetch water, paste strips on the machine and lay them out in the rooms ahead of me. After the helper had a couple of rooms pasted, and the rooms scrapped, I would hang the top half of a few strips, and let the rookie finish the bottom half of each. This let him, or her, get the feel of handling vinyl, smoothing out strips, trimming bottoms, washing seams, etc. Usually within a short period of time, I’d teach them to cut seams as they go. Hotel hanging is usually fairly simple to learn, particularly once you get the room layouts down. It is very physical, however, and I can’t imagine a 60 year old woman banging out substantial yardage. I am 60 myself, and I’d rather slit my throat than hang hotel vinyl.
> 
> And I would surely get a counter. They are accurate and help production rates. Strips hang much easier if they are cut short enough that they are two or three inches short of reaching the floor. On a typical 8’ wall, I’d cut my strips @ 94”. Normally vinyl or carpet base covers the bottom anyhow. Much better and faster than cutting strips @ 97”, and having the strips bunch up from hitting the floor.


...mind if I ask a ballpark on how long the Hamptons took you...?...ours is 4 stories...about 2500 square yards...I'm hoping we can get it done in less than 6 weeks...


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## Hanger in VT (Aug 5, 2008)

deadend said:


> ...mind if I ask a ballpark on how long the Hamptons took you...?...ours is 4 stories...about 2500 square yards...I'm hoping we can get it done in less than 6 weeks...


I've been out of that game for over a decade, but normally the hanging would take 3-4 weeks, though it depends on how many hangers you have. We're talking about 100 rooms or so, plus hallways & common areas, right? The painters would be out ahead of us spraying frames and priming walls, and we'd get a floor or two at a time to hang. They'd have the carpet guys scheduled right behind us, followed by the FFE guys behind them. Typically, everyone would be waiting on the drywall guys to finish, then we'd have to go like a MF'er. 

Also, as an aside, in all my years hanging hotels, it was very rare to bill for square yards. Everything was always specified in Linear yards. I would have preferred square yards, as a typical 30 yard bolt of vinyl contains 45 square yards, so its like getting paid an extra 50%. I'd double check that everyone is on the same page, yardage wise.


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## deadend (Aug 1, 2013)

*...bidding partially blind actually...*



Hanger in VT said:


> I've been out of that game for over a decade, but normally the hanging would take 3-4 weeks, though it depends on how many hangers you have. We're talking about 100 rooms or so, plus hallways & common areas, right? The painters would be out ahead of us spraying frames and priming walls, and we'd get a floor or two at a time to hang. They'd have the carpet guys scheduled right behind us, followed by the FFE guys behind them. Typically, everyone would be waiting on the drywall guys to finish, then we'd have to go like a MF'er.
> 
> Also, as an aside, in all my years hanging hotels, it was very rare to bill for square yards. Everything was always specified in Linear yards. I would have preferred square yards, as a typical 30 yard bolt of vinyl contains 45 square yards, so its like getting paid an extra 50%. I'd double check that everyone is on the same page, yardage wise.[/QUOTE
> 
> ...


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## Hanger in VT (Aug 5, 2008)

Good luck to ya, deadend. There's definitely money to be made hanging hotels, but you'll work for it.


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