# How to paint vinyl siding



## workpot (Aug 28, 2008)

I painting vinyl siding. I'm using Benjamin Moore products, Moorgard, and I have fresh start primers, oil and latex. I know it's clean, I did it by hand with sponges, brushes and rags by hand myself with tsp and properly rinsed. Squeeky clean when wet. The weather has been good, sunny dry here in northeast PA. The paint color is lighter than the original siding colors. The vinyl is a vertical type with a wood grain look and is about 15 years old. 

My BM retailer recommended using latex 100% acrilyc primer so I primed and painted a dormer and 10 days later I can fairly easily scrape it off with a fingernail. When I asked about emulsabond they said that the primer is a bonding primer and I should not use a bonding additive. Over the last 10 days I have tried a number of paint primer configurations. including paint without primer, oil primer and using emulsabond with latex primer and using emulsabond with paint and no primer. Although the emulsabond test seem to do better than the others, it really changes the nature of the fingernail scrapings more than solving the bonding issue altogether. 

It should be noted that Flood recommends against using Emulsabond for vinyl, and that none of the newer test spots are on more than a 7 days or so.

I have not painted vinyl before so I really do not know what to expect. 


Am I expecting too much?

Is it just a matter of cure time? 

Is my vinyl different? 

Should I use Sherwin Williams Duration?

Thanks, Rob

[email protected]


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## tsunamicontract (May 3, 2008)

you are just over thinking it. EB from Flood is for chalky substrates, (aluminum maybe but not vinyl). Duration or any vinyl safe paint should go right on with no primer.


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## spectrum (Apr 27, 2007)

*Paul from Spectrum*

I would suspect that you have an adhesion problem that may not improve by much over the next several weeks.

Here's what we have done successfully with Vinyl siding refinishing:

_Be sure the siding has aged 10 years or more._
_Be sure it has not been waxed._
_Powerwash with clean, free rinsing detergents._
_Prime with Bulls Eye 1-2-3 acrylic latex primer XIM Modified Acrylic Urethane primer. _
_NO EB_
_NO oil based primers or paints!_
_Always perform a simple adhesion test (tape pull test ) on the LEAST weathered and best looking side of the house before you begin priming.._
_Possibly wipe down with Alchohol or Acetone prior to priming if you are not happy with the adhesion test results._
_Use a color of the same or less color value._
_Paint in warm, dry weather without the threat of rain or high humidity._
Give it a few more days and perform a few tape pull tests. If it pulls off more than 10 -20%, you have an adhesion failure that only full removal will remedy. Better to get it over with now if that's the case, rather than waiting for the paint to become more stubborn over time. A spray coat of mild biodegradable stripper and a powerwashing will take it right off, rather easily.

Hope this helps you, I feel for you. You really did the job right from the sounds of it. I have had adhesion failures with many primers, but rarely with the Zinsser Bulls Eye 1-2-3, it's in a class by itself.


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## PinnacleResidential (Aug 10, 2008)

I also think you may be over thinking this.  If you cleaned the vinyl really well, just make sure you are using a self-priming paint that is vinyl safe and go for it. I use Timeless by PPG. Never had an issue.


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## BMDealer (Jun 2, 2008)

If you are concerned about a bonding primer try a product call Stix from Insl-x. The stuff is interior and exterior and will basically stick to glass.
-B


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## HomeGuardPaints (Jan 17, 2008)

Clean, make sure its weather 60 days( so the pores are open) paint with superpaint or duration. thats it, no primer, nothing, just clean and paint. I've painted many and its the easiest thing to complete. Dont over think it.


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## HomeGuardPaints (Jan 17, 2008)

also primer is likely to buckle the vinyl.


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## PinnacleResidential (Aug 10, 2008)

Hey homeguards, we agreed finally.


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## HomeGuardPaints (Jan 17, 2008)

PinnacleResidential said:


> Hey homeguards, we agreed finally.


miracles never cease


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## Mantis (Aug 4, 2008)

Painted my home's vinyl siding 3 years ago. Pressure wash and 2 coats of A-100 sprayed with an airless. Still looks great, although Im not happy with the color. Damned painters anyway :whistling2:. Make sure your customer is aware of winter/summer expansion in the siding. during the winter, some of the original color may show where the siding has shrank away from other connecting pieces.


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## spectrum (Apr 27, 2007)

I have always been suprised at how many painters elect to skip the primer and go with two finish coats instead. I see this being done on exterior aluminum siding, vinyl siding, interior sheetrock walls, etc. 

I don't understand the rationale behind it though? The labor and the material cost is just about identical to use a primer as your first coat as opposed to using a finish coat as your first coat. The primer has different properties than the finish coat which seem very important to me, not the least of which is adhesion and providing a uniformaly sealed surface.

I always look at each job and consider what is the very best way to complete it, no shortcuts. We don't want a call back, a failure or a dissatisfied customer if we can avoid it, even if it costs more. We almost always use a primer as our first coat, why not? 

For those guys that routinely use two finish coats, as opposed to a primer, what is the advantage? What is the reasoning behind that system?


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I have not repainted a vinyl house yet, but the exterior paints I used specifically say and have instructional sheets for painting vinyl that say to use the paint directly. Also, if you are going to prime, then you probably should be using 1 prime coat and 2 finish coats, with the no primer system, 2 finish coats would be all. 

If it is a non-porous surface that paint bonds easily to (ie Al siding), primer really does not serve a purpose.


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## Tonyg (Dec 9, 2007)

spectrum said:


> I have always been suprised at how many painters elect to skip the primer and go with two finish coats instead. I see this being done on exterior aluminum siding, vinyl siding, interior sheetrock walls, etc.
> 
> I don't understand the rationale behind it though? The labor and the material cost is just about identical to use a primer as your first coat as opposed to using a finish coat as your first coat. The primer has different properties than the finish coat which seem very important to me, not the least of which is adhesion and providing a uniformaly sealed surface.
> 
> ...


Times are changing! We don't even need lead in our coatings these days 


http://www.paintquality.com/contractor/newsletters/contNL0408.html

*Direct to Substrate Trend:* What if a technology can be developed that brings the best properties of the topcoat (e.g. durability and appearance) with that of the primer (e.g. adhesion and stain blocking)? This is in fact the case today. More manufacturers are introducing these direct to substrate (DTS) paints that deliver excellent performance from a single can. That is, as opposed to using a primer followed by 2 coats of a topcoat, the same performance can now be delivered with 2 coats of a DTS paint. 

http://www.paintquality.com/contractor/newsletters/contNL0408.html

*Priming is not generally required with use of a quality exterior latex paint.*

*Paint Choice – Quality exterior 100% acrylic latex paints adhere well to weathered vinyl siding, given good surface preparation*


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## PinnacleResidential (Aug 10, 2008)

Timeless is a good example of Tonyg's comment. Self priming. Why would you prime before painting with a self primer?


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

If you prime and use one coat and it doesn't cover, do you put a second coat on for free?


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## Primer Guy (Apr 20, 2007)

Primers are a bit different than topcoats. Self priming topcoats are a compromise at best. If adhesion and coating life issues a bonding primer is a safe bet. Also quality primers have good "hold out" which improves the way the topcoat lays down on the surface. For vinyl siding, (BTW, not all vinyl sidings are the same material) UMA is a good choice and superior to 123 in adhesion and will bond to both the surface and the topcoat. As always, surface prep is very important.


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## HomeGuardPaints (Jan 17, 2008)

Primer Guy said:


> Primers are a bit different than topcoats. Self priming topcoats are a compromise at best. If adhesion and coating life issues a bonding primer is a safe bet. Also quality primers have good "hold out" which improves the way the topcoat lays down on the surface. For vinyl siding, (BTW, not all vinyl sidings are the same material) UMA is a good choice and superior to 123 in adhesion and will bond to both the surface and the topcoat. As always, surface prep is very important.


"PRIMER" Guy, you wouldn't have any bias toward primers,would you?


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

aaron61 said:


> If you prime and use one coat and it doesn't cover, do you put a second coat on for free?



I would say if you bid on a job one coat primer and one finish coat and you didnt have anything in the contract about poss 2nd finish coat, you may be out of luck... or good luck trying to convince a client to give you more money...


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