# Need opinion



## Estmrtz91 (Jan 15, 2021)

We recently did a paint project with, cabinets, doors and wainscoting, but the client was unsatis because off the bleed through. We sanded it down, wiped/cleaned afterwards and sprayed Sherwin Williams’s shellac primer on it then we painted it white with our air Greco sprayer. Any ideas of why this happened and how to fix?


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## Masterwork (Sep 13, 2020)

Type of wood is important to know. Tannins typically bleed through water based primers. Oil or shellac based primers can help. 

Or they complaining about all the wood grain that isn't filled? You can't fill wood grain by spraying. Have to brush and roll.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Thats not tannin bleed. It's unfilled Oak grain. You need to back brush and back roll a couple more coats to drive into the grain. Good Luck! Unless you want to grain fill.. but that that's a lot of extra work. What is your painting background?


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## scbryan7 (Dec 10, 2020)

Yupp what he said ^ back brush that first coat. ideally prime with oil. Filling oak grain is definitely a conversation that needs to be had at the estimate in order to clarify expectations.


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## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

If its the grain they are worried about thats lots of work to fill. If its the particles in the paint job not being smooth that is fixed with sanding. Honestly a good sanding right now use a palm sander with 180 or 220 put a coat coat of oil primer and two oil topcoats sanding lightly between coats will fill 75% of that grain.


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## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

I don't think anyone is talking about a full grain fill - just that it's obvious that paint did not make it down into the deeper grooves in the grain. That's what back brushing/rolling would do is work it down in there.


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## Masterwork (Sep 13, 2020)

I don't know... The first post talks about bleed through. I still think this thread is about tannins.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

You absolutely have to backbrush or roll the first primer coat when spraying oak to fill the grain. Do that once, then you can spray on top of it for your topcoats. Note: This does not FILL the grain, but it gets the paint in it without opening up and showing the wood beneath


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Masterwork said:


> I don't know... The first post talks about bleed through. I still think this thread is about tannins.


Well the OP said he primed with Shellac. Pictures just look like open grain. Have a feeeling the OP may not know the difference?


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## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Well the OP said he primed with Shellac. Pictures just look like open grain. Have a feeeling the OP may not know the difference?


If the opening post didn't refer to a "client" I likely would have flagged it as DIY. I'm guessing OP is very new to the trade, or is primarily in some other trade and tacking a paint job onto something else.


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## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

Rookie mistake. We've all done it. Definitely have to recognize that it is oak. I know on EVERY cabinet job that I do where I"m painting oak, like many of you, I fully discuss that the oak grain is likely going to show through. In many cases, I try to talk the client out of painting the oak. With this job being paneling, well, it shows up even worse than on cabinet doors. Usually, extra coats can "mute" the look somewhat, but, even after 3 or 4 coats, you will still see some areas of oak grain.

At this point, either skim coat it and repaint or apply enough coats to make the oak grain less noticeable.


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## Ricks Painting (May 2, 2020)

wow what a horrible job you really need to get educated seems like most of you hear are clueless when it comes to this type of work. for one you should always spray then back roll that primer into the grain to fill it some also shellac is crap and wont hide grain or taninn bleed unless its a few coats but then your better off using oil and the job wont last a month.


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## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

Ricks Painting said:


> wow what a horrible job you really need to get educated seems like most of you hear are clueless when it comes to this type of work. for one you should always spray then back roll that primer into the grain to fill it some also shellac is crap and wont hide grain or taninn bleed unless its a few coats but then your better off using oil and the job wont last a month.


Hey Rick. If you really want to call people clueless...uh, figure out the difference between "hear" and "here." And uh...if you read the replies you're not providing any new insights. What you have to say was already said. Politely. By people who didn't mistake "hear" for "here".

But we all appreciate you stopping by to assert your (misguided and unfounded) prowess.


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## Respec (Sep 13, 2015)

I agree with most here. To counter Rick, although shellac may not be the best choice of primer for this job, especially if you are trying to fill the grain because shellac is so thin, it is probably not going to fail in a month. Years down the road, possibly.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

To the OP; to echo what Kevin has already asked, can you give us more info on your experience level as well as some clarification as to exactly what the customers are unhappy with?


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Ricks Painting said:


> wow what a horrible job you really need to get educated seems like most of you hear are clueless when it comes to this type of work. for one you should always spray then back roll that primer into the grain to fill it some also shellac is crap and wont hide grain or taninn bleed unless its a few coats but then your better off using oil and the job wont last a month.


 Gee that's funny. Could have sworn many others have already said that. You add no value to this conversation and seriously need to rethink your attitude.


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## celicaxx (May 29, 2015)

Oddly enough I just did some oak paneling with BIN + BM Ben and it looked pretty similar to that when done with two coats brushed and rolled. One coat of BM Regal Select on top really muted the wood grain way better. It's very thick and high build, which was just the ticket on this paneling. 









This is with everything caulked and one coat of Regal on top of two coats of Ben. As you can see, unless you're very close the grain got muted very well.









With shellac and two coats of Ben even brushed and rolled it still looked like about how your picture does. I ended up caulking a lot for the coat of Regal, as my boss had never done paneling before and it frankly looked hideous without caulk, but I convinced him it was worth the extra effort, if we're going all in, we're going all in. 

I had some small bleed through even with the shellac, not of grain but some tannins. I think I went on too thin, but the product is thin anyway. In the future I'd probably let the shellac dry for a full 24 hours, then go over it with a latex primer, then paint. Shellac did a bad job of covering super dark wood.

So since it doesn't look like you have actual tannin bleed going on, I'd go with a coat of something high build brushed and rolled on. If you're stuck with SW probably something like Duration would be better, as it's supposedly very thick.


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## WPS (Jan 26, 2021)

The best way to go with it is primming and oil. The type of the wood plays a huge game here, unfortunately. Good luck!
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