# Giant Bong.



## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

I have given a lot of thought to how to capture lead from pre-1978 homes in a way that is effective, efficient.

What you really need is a LOT of suction near the source of where the paint is being removed to capture the vast majority of paint chips and particles without all of the ridiculous plastic requirements the EPA has designated.

Also, it would be ideal if one could run 25-50 foot hose so the vacuum unit itself could stay on the ground.

Problem is most HEPA vacs don't have a lot of oomph. We have a Festool hepa vac. The suction power is average compared to similar size non-hepa vacs.

I think what would provide enough suction to create a container/barrier/set of attachments that could be held close to or surrounding the source of the paint removal would be those canister vacuums you see at car washes.

Those put out a lot of suction. But I thought of an interesting way to take a normal vacuum, and filter the exhaust in a way that would be just as effective as a hepa filtration system.

Send the exhaust through a tube that divides the stream into lots of small streams and run the output into a container of water filled with charcoal layers. 

Surely this would capture all of the lead particles, or at least 99% of them.

Or perhaps just water in the container would suffice.

Then you could filter the water with the same media used to filter the pressure washer run off onsite.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

LC, good post but total bait and switch.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

There ya go again, giving up highly classified trade secrets/ideas for every Tom , **** and Harry wandering thru to take advantage of and put you out of business!
You need to be developing and patenting this stuff!:notworthy:


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

RCP said:


> There ya go again, giving up highly classified trade secrets/ideas for every Tom , **** and Harry wandering thru to take advantage of and put you out of business!
> You need to be developing and patenting this stuff!:notworthy:


he said he needs to work on not being so selfish, and the possible key to unlock his Karmic bliss for this life and universe was to just let go and not worry about giving it away.
But wheres the bong?


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

my thinking on any of this crap RRP stuff is if I need a vac, get one that has a hepa yeah sure.. put it at the end of my vacuum train. I will hook a regular vac up to get the crap out, and put a couple in series to a hepa at the end.

so you would have a regular shopvac that would be at the front, and it's exhaust would be ran through a hepa vac. You could seal around the outter coupling area of the first vac so none of the "contaminate" would go airborne.. and the exahaust would be filtered like it should be with the less powerful hepa.


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

nEighter said:


> so you would have a regular shopvac that would be at the front, and it's exhaust would be ran through a hepa vac.


I am not sure if this would work.

I think one of the reason hepa vacs aren't as powerful is because the filters that catch micro-contaminants cant handle too much air pressure being forced through them.

But this is speculation because I actually don't know exactly what the difference is in how the exhaust in a hepa vac works.


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

RCP said:


> There ya go again, giving up highly classified trade secrets/ideas for every Tom , **** and Harry wandering thru to take advantage of and put you out of business!


This isn't a trade secret, it's trade speculation. But if the idea gave me an competitive edge that the EPA wouldn't fine me for, I would only tell it to other seasoned painters.

I am willing to put as many ideas out there as possible to get these lead removal techniques and requirements into a form that is feasible and reasonable.

I hope the EPA reads those other posts I made about capturing the paint at the source to eliminate having to plastic off everything.

I hope they read them, and it has an affect on devising rational methods for lead paint removal. I would feel it was time very well spent.


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

TJ Paint said:


> he said he needs to work on not being so selfish


Wait minute, that's not exactly what I said. I still haven't decided if my apprehensiveness is selfishness, or self-preservation.

I am leaning towards self-preservation.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

http://www.hydroteksystems.com/recycle.htm#recovery Seriously thinking about these units


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

I have a couple of thoughts- 
one- I've seen a certified hepa filter that comes in a 5er. you just run your hoses through it. Makes any vac a hepa. I wouldn't want that to be first in line though. Local paint chain here carries them,, not sure who makes them.

two- this is for the inventors- what about making a scoop/sheild that would be attached to a pressure washer wand that would vacuum up the water as it was being reflected off? I know it wouldn't get it all but it might make the ground trough have a much easier time of it.


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

I'm not one to reinvent the wheel. When I start tinkering with pieces and parts two things happen. One is that I waste an inordinate amount of time thinking, researching and fooling around when I should be making money. The other is that I spend far more than if I would have just anted up and bought a completed product that someone else already put all the time and expense into. 

Here are some links for you guys to visit. These are the leaders in our industry for reclaim/capture.

http://sunbrite.stores.yahoo.net/vavasy.html
http://www.dcs1.com/
http://www.pressurewasher.net/


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

Thanks Ken, I looked at a lot of your peers' rigs a while ago, some awesome machinery! I think someone who did a lot of RRP/Pressurewashing and developed a system would do very well in some areas.
I spoke to Matthew Johnson a while ago and he was very helpful.

Something to remember though, RRP just says contain dust and chips. It is your local State regs that may dictate exactly what you have to do.

LC, I thought of your "bong" when I saw this
http://www.industrialvacuum.com/industrial-vacuums/trailer-mounted/hurricane-sybv850.htm


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

PressurePros said:


> The other is that I spend far more than if I would have just anted up and bought a completed product that someone else already put all the time and expense into.


I wont disagree with this sentiment one bit. Problem is, as far as I am aware the technology doesn't exist yet.

If it does, why the heck is the EPA requiring us to do all this plasticing and tenting, when we could just capture the the chips and dust the moment the come off the scraper/sander instead of erecting a giant tent, scattering the dust all over the inside of the tent, then throwing away the tent.

By the way, this might exist but it is something I have thought if for pressure washers before, and even potentially all painting procedures.

Why climb a ladder with a pressure washer wand, when you could operate a wand remotely from the ground.

Imagine how much easier two and 3 story houses would be, especially with odd roof lines in the way of the ladders, if you just had a boom that could be robotically controlled, and you could do the whole thing from the ground.

It would take much material to support such a rig, and there woudn't be any safety issues of having personell up in the air that would have to fe addressed in any kind of rig that carries a person up.

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I could see doing a lot of painting tasks remotely from the ground.

If there was a camera at close to the work, you could view it remotely from the ground and operate a robotic arm that would mimc your movements exactly.

The boom would need ot have two stabilizer points on it like a ladder standoff that would rest against the surface underneath the work being done.

Then you could look at the screen and control the robotic arm just like a video game.

If you could design a way to paint a 2/3 story house from the ground, that would change painting as we know it.

Caulking and masking would be tough. But I think a lot of tasks could be done. Especially spraying. Some trim with a roller might be possible.

No more ladders/scaffolding!

Gotta keep the dream alive.


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

BrushJockey said:


> two- this is for the inventors- what about making a scoop/sheild that would be attached to a pressure washer wand that would vacuum up the water as it was being reflected off? I know it wouldn't get it all but it might make the ground trough have a much easier time of it.



The box containment idea would work for this.

Have a containment box/dome etc that presses against the side of the house that has a strong vacuum attached to it.

You could conduct a variety of processes inside the box. pressure washing would be one. Wire wheel activity. Manual scraping. Manual or machine sanding.

In the event of the pressure washer, you could still have a cathment system at the bottom, but like you say, it would remove a lot of water right at the source when it reflected off the surface.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

hey LC did you go to college, and if so, did you major in English? just curious. It seems your true calling is writing. I mean that in a good way btw.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I have a question that no one has posed yet in any of these recovery threads. How much are you gonna have to charge these customers? Are there enough willing to pay what I am assuming will be about 40 to 50 % the total cost more than someone who won't recover?


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

straight_lines said:


> I have a question that no one has posed yet in any of these recovery threads. How much are you gonna have to charge these customers? Are there enough willing to pay what I am assuming will be about 40 to 50 % the total cost more than someone who won't recover?



Welcome to our world. The rig to catch the runoff while cleaning a parking garage with multiple high flow machines can cost $50,000. Then you walk into a parking garage one evening that you bid and see a husband and wife with two wands and every bit of water running out the front of the building into storm sewers. Now these are property managers and well informed people that own these garages and they still won't accept bids for doing it properly.

Building tents, filtering to X microns... I would love to see a contractor try to compete in Bumfudge Alabama and sell that necessity to a homeowner.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Make sure you talk to your local water authority. Some will let the stained and collected water be dumped into the sanitary sewers, some will not. My area has limits on the lead that can be in the water (ppm limits), but our thinking is that if the lead paint is not on the surface, those limits would not be reached. Now if it was surface lead and chalky paint, then they may be reached and it should be tested, but I do not expect there to be very many homes that have lead in the surface layers any more.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

PressurePros said:


> I would love to see a contractor try to compete in Bumfudge Alabama and sell that necessity to a homeowner.


Bumfudge Alabama is a very uppity area. They all keep up with the Jones there, so if you sell the Jones you got the whole area in the bag.


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

I thought about pre-apologizing to you, Sean.. Alabama is all that came to mind. Sorry bro. :icon_cool: You can use my area the next time you need to talk about loud mouth Yankees.


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## StefanC (Apr 29, 2009)

PressurePros said:


> Then you walk into a parking garage one evening that you bid and see a husband and wife with two wands and every bit of water running out the front of the building into storm sewers.


If you're serious about this then I probably know the people you're talking about.


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

StefanC said:


> If you're serious about this then I probably know the people you're talking about.


Unfortunately I am. The project bid was in KOP


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

PressurePros said:


> I thought about pre-apologizing to you, Sean.. Alabama is all that came to mind. Sorry bro. :icon_cool: You can use my area the next time you need to talk about loud mouth Yankees.


lol no worries. Just saw an opportunity for a wise crack.


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

RCP said:


> LC, I thought of your "bong" when I saw this
> http://www.industrialvacuum.com/industrial-vacuums/trailer-mounted/hurricane-sybv850.htm



I checked that out, that looks pretty awesome.

I wonder if it would create enough suction to leave in the driveway, and have a hose that could reach all the way around the house. Probably. It looks pretty burly.

It really is the best way.

I try to vacuum as much stuff at the source as possible. For example if I have a bunch of spackle to sand in a house, I hold a vacuum under the spot I am sanding to prevent spackle dust from flying all over the place. It's just that much less clean up later.

The concept really applies to anything. Especially this RRP paint removal.

If RRP paint removal became it's own trade, that vacuum you linked to could easily be one of the main tools of the trade. That, and a bunch of attachments, and 3 guys could scrape/sand a house in no time if that is what they specialized in.

They would save so much time not dealing with all the plastic, and also removing the paint more efficeintly, I actually think the paint removal process to capture 99% of what is released wouldn't be any more expensiive part of the painting process than it used to be when people payed little to no attention recovering lead paint.

This whole thing could be done very effectively actually, and really clean up the process of removing paint from a house, if they just streamlined the procudures for doing it, wich would also require much less regulation, and notification, and liabiity etc, which also would bring the cost down.

Another thing is if they are going to be requiring us to use plastic for this procedure, they need to come up with say 10 different sizes of plastic that work well for this procedure, then every city have one or two stations Designed to very efficienty and quickly wash these special RRP plastic tarps, they could hang them up and wash them on both sides and let send them into a hot room to dry off for an hour, then you come collect them. They shouldn't charge more tha $5 per tarp.

That way the average painter could have all his RRP tarps washed for $25. That's $25 a job for clean new plastic. That way you don't have to throw it in a land fill and it costs the same or less for every job.

Throwing away all that plastic is horrendous.


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