# Guardz Question



## Toolnut (Nov 23, 2012)

Have been seeing quite a bit about Guardz lately. Have been using it but really only thought of it as a rimer for problem areas, like wallpaper removal. Now I'm seeing it being used for total prime. How does it spray? I have a couple rental units coming up and between the two they must have had about 15 dogs all in the house. So take a guess about the odor, since Guardz is a sealer would it work for the odor. It,s painted drywall, (light color) on the walls and painted popcorn on the ceiling. The ceiling is 15' at the peak.

The other unit is a really dark brown so with Guardz being clear I assume it wouldn't work for a color change. I have read about putting a little white in it since it's clear makes it a little opaque. But it can't be tinted if I remember right or am I wrong.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

I would not trust it to seal odors. It acts like a glue of sorts and provides a more consistent film that will aid in a consistent sheen over porous drywall surfaces. 
It is not intended to be used in place of a more formal "sealer" such as coverstain, bin, or in some places, kilz is the goto. 
Basically, use discression about what your intentions and goals are with it as it's not a good substitute for stains or odors ime anyway...I'd rather get the good stuff than guess wrong and pay twice.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

Toolnut said:


> The other unit is a really dark brown so with Guardz being clear I assume it wouldn't work for a color change. I have read about putting a little white in it since it's clear makes it a little opaque. But it can't be tinted if I remember right or am I wrong.


Not so much for the sealing of odors, but color changes are just like any other primer, really. It seals so well that rolling (or spraying) paint on top works really well. I've had close to one coat coverage with Gardz and one coat of very average paint in an off white over a dark gray. No biggie, but no different than over white primer.

You can tint with 2oz of universal colorant, which makes it kinda milky looking if you go with white tint.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Gardz will not deal with odors or stains as lilpaintchic already said.


There is no U in Gardz


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

chrisn said:


> Gardz will not deal with odors or stains as lilpaintchic already said.
> 
> 
> 
> just an FYI...i bought some the other day and was surprised that it has now been relabeled as "all prime" or some such thing...


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## PNW Painter (Sep 5, 2013)

I'm sure it won't take long till they relabel it and maybe add a slight amount of colorant and label it Platinum or Pro Drywall Primer and charge a ton for it. 


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

PNW Painter said:


> I'm sure it won't take long till they relabel it and maybe add a slight amount of colorant and label it Platinum or Pro Drywall Primer and charge a ton for it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Its pretty expensive already for a specialty primer.


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## stl911 (Jul 16, 2014)

it is pricy for sure, but if it can help to reduce labour hours, i will go for it.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

MikeCalifornia said:


> Its pretty expensive already for a specialty primer.


$25 is expensive?

of course out there it's probably $85


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

PNW Painter said:


> I'm sure it won't take long till they relabel it and maybe add a slight amount of colorant and label it Platinum or Pro Drywall Primer and charge a ton for it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't think Zinsser will take the Behr route, at least they have not in the past


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Does Gardz block odors?*



Toolnut said:


> Have been seeing quite a bit about Guardz lately. Have been using it but really only thought of it as a rimer for problem areas, like wallpaper removal. Now I'm seeing it being used for total prime. How does it spray? I have a couple rental units coming up and between the two they must have had about 15 dogs all in the house. So take a guess about the odor, since Guardz is a sealer would it work for the odor. It,s painted drywall, (light color) on the walls and painted popcorn on the ceiling. The ceiling is 15' at the peak.
> 
> The other unit is a really dark brown so with Guardz being clear I assume it wouldn't work for a color change. I have read about putting a little white in it since it's clear makes it a little opaque. But it can't be tinted if I remember right or am I wrong.


Talk about synchronicity! I just sent this email last night to Erik at Rustoleum. He told me that he used to be a painter and one reason he works at Rustoleum now is because he liked Gardz so much. Here is my email to Erik:

*Erik, I have spoken with you in the past regarding Gardz. I have a question about Gardz. Since it is a sealer, will it seal in odors? Such as cigarette odors? I just cleaned and primed a whole house (900 sq ft) using special chemicals and a water based primer, Kilz Max (the owners just wanted priming, no painting), and it did the job, but I am wondering if Gardz will also seal in the odors. I would rather use Gardz. Can you look into this?*

After reading through this thread I spoke with someone else at Rustoleum and she said that she did not think that Gardz would hide odors, but that she would look into it further. One would think that something that seals in water-based paints so well would also seal in odors, but I am not a chemist.

futtyos the Gardz girl/guy


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## ElTacoPaco (Dec 11, 2015)

lilpaintchic said:


> chrisn said:
> 
> 
> > Gardz will not deal with odors or stains as lilpaintchic already said.
> ...


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Rustoleum customer service. That's a good one. I got drunk with the Grassman last night too!


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

chrisn said:


> $25 is expensive?
> 
> of course out there it's probably $85


It's $25-27 ish here...more expensive than 123, that's for sure...I can see some advantage to it in some priming situations, but it's no panacea imo...


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

ElTacoPaco said:


> lilpaintchic said:
> 
> 
> > That's just the product for the independent retailers
> ...


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

A couple of emails from Erik at Zinsser. The first is in regards to the permiability rating of Gardz vs BIN:

*The Gardz will not do well on odors because its permeability rating is actually considerably higher than most of our other products. To be a true vapor barrier, the permeability rating of a product must be 0. Our BIN primer, which is our best stain and odor blocking product ranges from .8-1.4 depending on the shellac crop. This product is designed to block odors and is one of the best in the industry. The Gardz product has a perm rating of 26. If there is any sort of odor, it will bleed right through. *

I asked about the perm rating for Cover Stain and his reply:

*Cover stain has a perm rating of 3 to 4 depending on the version used. There are multiple versions depending on the area of the country and the clean air laws in that area. Unfortunately the perm rating isn't listed on most consumer products since we do not advertise them as a vapor barrier product and the average consumer would not take that type of information into consideration. The BIN primer is going to be the best when it comes to odor, the Cover Stain will block them to some degree, the Gardz more than likely will not show a significant difference at all. *

Today I spoke to the owner of Fox Valley Chemical in Illinois regarding Gardz and concrete sealers. His main acrylic floor finish is called Ultra 10. He said that someone used to buy it to spray over smoke damaged construction to cover the smoke odor, but that it has been a while since that happened.

futtyos


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

futtyos said:


> A couple of emails from Erik at Zinsser. The first is in regards to the permiability rating of Gardz vs BIN:
> 
> *The Gardz will not do well on odors because its permeability rating is actually considerably higher than most of our other products. To be a true vapor barrier, the permeability rating of a product must be 0. Our BIN primer, which is our best stain and odor blocking product ranges from .8-1.4 depending on the shellac crop. This product is designed to block odors and is one of the best in the industry. The Gardz product has a perm rating of 26. If there is any sort of odor, it will bleed right through. *
> 
> ...


Not much of a review:blink:


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*information gathering*



chrisn said:


> Not much of a review:blink:


Sir, this was not a review, sir! This was a fact finding mission, sir! 

futtyos


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

futtyos said:


> A couple of emails from Erik at Zinsser. The first is in regards to the permiability rating of Gardz vs BIN:
> 
> *The Gardz will not do well on odors because its permeability rating is actually considerably higher than most of our other products. To be a true vapor barrier, the permeability rating of a product must be 0. Our BIN primer, which is our best stain and odor blocking product ranges from .8-1.4 depending on the shellac crop. This product is designed to block odors and is one of the best in the industry. The Gardz product has a perm rating of 26. If there is any sort of odor, it will bleed right through. *
> 
> ...




Interesting that it's so permeable, yet seals so well. That's kind of a conundrum. I would be interested to know the layman's chemical explanation for that. 

Makes me thing of a breathable, waterproof fabric like Gore Tech. 


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Acrylic floor finish for smoke damage*



Jmayspaint said:


> Interesting that it's so permeable, yet seals so well. That's kind of a conundrum. I would be interested to know the layman's chemical explanation for that.
> 
> Makes me thing of a breathable, waterproof fabric like Gore Tech.
> 
> ...


Jmayspaint, I had the same thought. The owner (and chemist/mixer) of Fox Valley Chemicals, Russ, asked me to send him the MSDS sheet on Gardz so he can get an idea of what it is made of. As I mentioned, he had a guy some years back who used to buy his flagship product, Ultra 10, which is an acrylic floor finish, to spray on smoke damaged construction. Perhaps this guy found a better product geared more closely to covering smoke odor.

There are some water based smoke odor sealers out there besides Kilz Max. My local janitorial supplier carries Recon by Fiberlock. It comes in white and clear. I was thinking of using it (@ over 50.00 per gallon), but it said not to use a roller, just brush or spray, so that was out. Another one is Vaporlock by Paradigm Labs, also in white and clear. I decided to use Kilz Max because I like to buy in person, not have it shipped.

Here is the MSDS for Vaporlock: http://www.spggogreen.com/wp-content/uploads/Vapor-Lock-20-20.pdf

It says that it " Dries to form glass film which can easily cut the skin. Spilled material is very slippery. Can etch glass if not promptly removed." That sounds interesting!

If I get ambitious I will see if I can find out what the permeability is for the above products.

And maybe I will find out that regular acrylic floor finish or sealer can be used in place of Gardz if the chemistry is not too far off. At least it would come in the right container, easy to pour, not like Gardz in a paint can. Rustoleum, are you reading this?

futtyos, the Gardz girl/guy


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

futtyos said:


> Sir, this was not a review, sir! This was a fact finding mission, sir!
> 
> futtyos


Yea, but 1(one) guy? :blink:


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Floor finish, not smoke sealer*



chrisn said:


> Yea, but 1(one) guy? :blink:


Russ at Fox Valley Chemical only mentioned this one guy because I brought up the subject of a reformulated concrete sealer (Gardz) being used to seal drywall and if he thought it could seal in smoke odors. He recalled that someone used to come in and buy his main acrylic floor finish (Ultra 10) to spray onto smoke damaged structural material to mask the odors. Russ guessed that it must have worked, otherwise the guy would not have been a repeat customer. Russ formulated Ultra 10 acrylic floor finish as just that, a floor finish, not an odor sealer. Russ is looking into this. Hopefully something good may come of this.

As far as acrylic floor sealer and finish lasting, I will say this. About 20 years ago I stripped and finished a stone floor in an entrance area with white, chalky grout that was hell to keep clean while stripping. I put 2 coats of Fox Valley acrylic floor sealer on and 3 coats of Ultra 10. It still looks good 20 years later with no further coats of finish applied, just vacuuming and mopping.

futtyos


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

You know I was just funnin ya:jester:


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Sir, yes sir!*



chrisn said:


> You know I was just funnin ya:jester:


Sir, I know you was just funnin me, sir!






futtyos


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## Jerome_2015 (Nov 14, 2021)

Hi everyone - I need some help! I have “loads” of wall which was wall papered with horrible wall paper (the one with relief that you can stick your nails in!!) … I stripped it all, did my best to remove all residual glue, sanded, filled (using easy fill), sanded again, applied guardz and now I have just started painting using a standard meter emulsion! I have just started BUT it’s already looking a bit blotchy!? Should I have applied two coats of guardz / is it just that the undercoat is blue (too coat is white) and. Need to be more patient/ give it a few coats - or have I don’t something wrong???? Any help - appreciated - I don’t want to keep going if I have messed this up!!!


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## Jerome_2015 (Nov 14, 2021)

* Matt emulsion
*walls were thoroughly cleaned with sugar soap/ water after removing the wallpaper adhesive!


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

Just put a second topcoat on and see what happens.


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