# Lead!



## Libertine

Yikes, I almost didn't bother testing this...

Red = Lead



Whats scary to me is that there was only wood behind these chips except for tiny reminants of something white and the top coat was painted 10 years ago. If i wasn't working for myself and my boss said "ok, start sanding that sucker down", i wouldn't have thought twice about it.

These lead test kits are fast an easy to use, so thats nice. This was the first time i used one so i did it twice and used both of the cylinders. The first time i kinda wasn't sure that it was working.


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## Safety Guy

I carry a bunch of those test kits with me. They work great, it is amazing where you find lead.

What did you do to take care of the lead???


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## CharlieWis

Thats crazy that it was painted only 10 years ago and still had lead, I thought lead paint was outlawed in 1978. Why was there lead?


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## vermontpainter

CharlieWis said:


> Thats crazy that it was painted only 10 years ago and still had lead, I thought lead paint was outlawed in 1978. Why was there lead?


Perhaps it was encapsulated by subsequent coats.


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## CApainter

White lead was used extensively as a wood primer. It has a higher percentage of lead then "Red Lead", which was used on steel structures. I would say by the test color that it's way over 100,000 ppm. Wear a P100 HEPA Filter on your APR.


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## Libertine

Yeah, its an older house, so im sure it was painted a long time ago with lead.

I noticed if you drip some of the liquid from the cylinder on the chip, it turns red without much rubbing around without touching (and contaminating) the felt tip, that might be one way to extend those things out some if you wrap them up with some plastic or something. But it does say to rub it for two minutes to be sure and give it some time for the lead to change the color. You be the judge... or better yet, let the scientist with Phd's be the judge and just follow the directions....


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## DeanV

*Apr?*

What does APR stand for CApainter?



CApainter said:


> White lead was used extensively as a wood primer. It has a higher percentage of lead then "Red Lead", which was used on steel structures. I would say by the test color that it's way over 100,000 ppm. Wear a P100 HEPA Filter on your APR.


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## CApainter

APR-Air Purifying Respirator. It uses the filter cartridges.


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## CApainter




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## DeanV

I have those. Never heard them called with the intitials before. If I am going to have guys scraping lead paint on an exterior and an little sanding (nothing too major) is that sufficient to protect their lungs? Do you have them in Tyvek Coveralls as well?


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## CApainter

The coveralls should be disposable like Tyvek. Also, disposable gloves.

Most elevations of lead are contributed through ingestion. Keep hands clean, even before smoking. A wash station at the job site serves this purpose well.


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## scpainting

DeanV said:


> If I am going to have guys scraping lead paint on an exterior and an little sanding (nothing too major) is that sufficient to protect their lungs? Do you have them in Tyvek Coveralls as well?


Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. PaintTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

you may want to take a course in lead abatement before you have your guys start removing paint.


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## daArch

scpainting said:


> you may want to take a course in lead abatement before you have your guys start removing paint.




in most states there are laws pertaining to lead abatement - or maybe it's a federal thing

Don't get me going about lead poisoning and protecting yourself and YOUR family when you come home covered with lead dust.

BTDT. 

It ain't fun


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## scpainting

daArch said:


> in most states there are laws pertaining to lead abatement - or maybe it's a federal thing


ok i thought it was just a Precautionary Principle enforced by the county you are working in. my bad. my point is i sure wouldnt want anyone to read this thread for a how-to on lead abatement safety stuff. who abates lead anyway?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precautionary_principle


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## johnpaint

You not suppose to dry sand this stuff, thats why there are lead abatement companys that charge so much to remove this stuff. If anyone drives by and sees you and reports you for not doing this the right way you might as will just start packing your bags for a one way trip down south.


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## johnthepainter

maybe start a vinyl siding division.


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## scpainting

johnpaint said:


> If anyone drives by and sees you and reports you for not doing this the right way you might as will just start packing your bags for a one way trip down south.


 
surely noone drives by and says "soab they are removing lead wrong!" most of the time the guys that would notice are busy removing lead.


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## johnpaint

See that's one good thing about living in some areas of the states, but you really have to be careful here in Wash, also in the northern states, and Calif.People get on the internet read things and then they start asking questions.


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## daArch

scpainting said:


> surely noone drives by and says "soab they are removing lead wrong!" most of the time the guys that would notice are busy removing lead.


SURELY people do !!

Thay also report obvious use of illegal aliens.

If you ask me how I know, you may not like the answer!


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## johnthepainter

how about illegal aliens removing lead? would you call i.c.e, or the epa or both?


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## johnpaint

Only if we found out that they were not using it to power there space craft, but for any other reason I would say we call both.


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## josey wales

I have been invovlved in sandblasting a couple bridges painted with lead paint over the years. Not much fun at all, when doing bridges up here it is mandatory to get a weekly blood test so they can monitor your lead levels. i don't smoke so my levels pretty much stayed the same, guys who did smoke, their levels went up.


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## 1977corey

josey wales said:


> I have been invovlved in sandblasting a couple bridges painted with lead paint over the years. Not much fun at all, when doing bridges up here it is mandatory to get a weekly blood test so they can monitor your lead levels. i don't smoke so my levels pretty much stayed the same, guys who did smoke, their levels went up.


most likely from NOT washing their hands before having a smoke break...


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## LaPintura

Blood tests for lead poising are pretty painless. I had one last fall since I had symptoms. Just a simple blood test and around $70, plus the office visit. (came back neg, btw. But better to know for sure, since I wasn't super careful the first few years I started painting).


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## clammer

If you work with lead paint you should have your blood tested reguarly.


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## Mike M

I worked for 10 years on bridges in NYC and had to take a OSHA cert. class on lead. I still go every year to Mt.Siani hospital to have studies/tests done, my levels never got above the "safe" level and actually were pretty close to my baseline when I started. I do know many many people who choose to ignore some very simple saftey guideline and have been sick for years.

If you are working around lead paint you should have a have a blood test done to determine your baseline lead level(most people have lead in their system) it stays with you FOREVER it stores in your bone marrow. There are definatly safe ways to remove lead paint and it shouldn't be taken lightly, there are long term effects on the nervous system. Don't risk your health , your familes health or the health of the home owner. GET TRAINED.


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## daArch

Mike M said:


> I worked for 10 years on bridges in NYC and had to take a OSHA cert. class on lead. I still go every year to Mt.Siani hospital to have studies/tests done, my levels never got above the "safe" level and actually were pretty close to my baseline when I started. I do know many many people who choose to ignore some very simple saftey guideline and have been sick for years.
> 
> If you are working around lead paint you should have a have a blood test done to determine your baseline lead level(most people have lead in their system) it stays with you FOREVER it stores in your bone marrow. There are definatly safe ways to remove lead paint and it shouldn't be taken lightly, there are long term effects on the nervous system. Don't risk your health , your familes health or the health of the home owner. GET TRAINED.


Good advice. Mike.

And I am glad to see the awareness level has definitely risen. Less and less painters poo-poo the dangers. I guess the macho ones died .

There is a lot of talk in the trade mags about the new regs going into effect next year. These will have a HUGE impact on anyone who works on a pre-1978 home, school, or child-care facility. 

from June's PWC magazine:



> The EPA’s Renovation, Repair and Painting (RRP) Final Rule (40 CFR 745) will apply to almost all remodeling projects that disturb paint in a home, school or child-care facility built before 1978.
> 
> The language of the new rule is dense, but it can be boiled down to these basics:
> • Contractors, maintenance officials and businesses that perform renovation activities must be certified.
> • Employees who perform renovation activities must be trained by EPA-accredited trainers.
> • Renovators must follow stringent lead-safe work practice standards.


read the article here:

http://www.paintstore.com/article.php?item=2715


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## FL.BM.DEALER

Just a little info to everyone reading this thread.

We have been instructed to remove those Lead test kits from our shelves by our supplier stating that SW had gotten a serious law suit against them for selling those tests kits, wich ended up suppling a false reading on the existance of lead on the surface.

I have not heard of any other instances after that one but I no longer carry these kits for that reason. (sucks b/c they sold really well)

I still have not gotten a chance to call the manufacturer,( i believe is Homax) to clarify the situation.


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## CApainter

As I understand it, the test swabs are only for field testing, and are not intended as a definitive conclusion for the presence of lead. Actual chip samples need to be sent to a lab for verification.


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## plainpainter

Like every summer - on my way to work and I must have passed half a dozen exterior painting teams - all grinding away century old homes with thick lead paint on them with absolutely no capture equipment - some guys not even wearing dust masks let alone respirators. Nobody cares about lead abatement in the northeast.


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## Bender

We should be watching aluminum levels to. 
Alzheimers is a bummer


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## CApainter

Bender said:


> We should be watching aluminum levels to.
> Alzheimers is a bummer


Drink lots of coffee. Latest study shows improvements in mice. 

Just watch out for the traps. They can leave a scar!


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## daArch

plainpainter said:


> Like every summer - on my way to work and I must have passed half a dozen exterior painting teams - all grinding away century old homes with thick lead paint on them with absolutely no capture equipment - some guys not even wearing dust masks let alone respirators. Nobody cares about lead abatement in the northeast.



I've been known to alert local Health Boards when I smell lead dust around these types of jobs. 

THEY care.


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## clammer

FL.BM.DEALER said:


> Just a little info to everyone reading this thread.
> 
> We have been instructed to remove those Lead test kits from our shelves by our supplier stating that SW had gotten a serious law suit against them for selling those tests kits, wich ended up suppling a false reading on the existance of lead on the surface.
> 
> We found out the kits were not accurate.We send chips off to the lab or have a lead inspector use an xrf gun to test the surface.The thing is if the home was built before 1978 the only way to be sure it is lead free is to have it tested otherwise work with it as you would if it contained lead paint.


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