# Commercial Estimating



## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

Good afternoon. We are / have been ramping up our commercial side of the business. Actually today, we just landed a contract on a store in a local mall that we bid on about 3 weeks ago. Start in 3 weeks.

We are getting about 5 commercial requests for bids / wk. It drives me crazy going to the online bid rooms and trying to read a print on screen. It's not difficult, just very ineffecient. I am looking at 2 options: 1) subbing this estimating type of work out or 2) buying software to make it more effecient.

I do not want to have the physical prints sent to me. I think if someone was equipped they would blow right through someone doing it manually. 

Has anyone subbed this type of work out or have a software package to recommend. Or any other ideas would be welcomed. Thanks for your help.


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

your best bet is to get your hands dirty and keep at it, figure out how to do it. Why pay someone else? And that software isn't that great.


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

Thanks for the reply but I don't think it is the best use of my time. 1 - 2 hrs (sometimes longer per bid). That's 10+ hrs per week. I know how to do it but it is sooooo tedious. It seems I spend more time enlarging and moving around the screen to get the info then I actually spend estimating from the info.

Here is my logic for wanting to sub it out. I think someone who has done this routinely and has the proper tools (large screen monitor, plotter, or software could do one in less then an hour). Pay them $20 bucks per bid (maybe a bonus for ones we close). In the past month, I did not bid on 4 to 5 of these. That is an opportunity lost and possible sale I missed because of other business priorities.

Is your opinion about software from experience or from what you've heard? Thanks.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

I would be worried they would miss a foot\$ here and there. Those cents add up and I would be PISSED if I lost a good chunk because they forgot to carry the 4. After all it isn't their money!


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

yes software from experience.. it sucks.


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

Wing: That is a concern but I would treat them like any other employee (put 'em on the payroll down the road). If they don't perform I'll find somebody who does. You bring up a very good point. A thorough review would have to be completed and signed off, at least, for the 1st 3. Then maybe an approval process for anything over, say, $5k. I don't know - I am thinking out loud.

nEighter: That sucks. I was hoping you were going by what you heard vs. experience.  Is your experience with current software (6 mo to a yr). Yea, I know I am stretchin' it but I was really hoping there was some software that you could tie in with prints from the on-line bid rooms. 

Thanks for the feedback.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

That is great you are getting so many commercial bids, where are you getting the leads from?

Are you wanting takeoff or Estimating software?
What do your estimators (I believe you said you had 2 or 3?) use now?


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

RCP said:


> That is great you are getting so many commercial bids, where are you getting the leads from?
> 
> Are you wanting takeoff or Estimating software?
> What do your estimators (I believe you said you had 2 or 3?) use now?


Most of my commercial leads are coming from the blue book.

Honestly, I do not know what I want. I don't know what is out there. I'd like to be able to download from an online bid room and quickly be able to determine all areas to be painted with a quick calculation to determine matl's, labor, and any other parameters (I-beams, duct work, etc...) we put into place.

The way we bid today is based off of sq. ft. We know what the current high end and low end are and we are bidding in the low to mid range so we can establish a reputation and presence.

We use Vu360. How do you bid these types? Thanks.


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## Patrick K (Jan 1, 2010)

I would suggest using On-Screen Takeoff 3 from On Center Software. They have a free version that has everything you need to get started. The paid version basically cuts down on the number of notes you need to take as you go. This helps keep everything sorted during the process and helps a lot of you actually get the project. It is easy to go back and see what you bid and for how much. Once you get used to to doing the takeoffs on screen it is not hard. Also, it can help to print out the page on a regular printer and notate it as you work the print "On-Screen". Once you get a few jobs you can invest in a plotter if you still feel the need, but I doubt you will. Also you local printing company may allow you to email prints, then stop by and pick up the prints. This can help if there is a page that you feel you just can not take off any other way.


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## painting247 (Mar 18, 2009)

fresh coat said:


> Good afternoon. We are / have been ramping up our commercial side of the business. Actually today, we just landed a contract on a store in a local mall that we bid on about 3 weeks ago. Start in 3 weeks.
> 
> We are getting about 5 commercial requests for bids / wk. It drives me crazy going to the online bid rooms and trying to read a print on screen. It's not difficult, just very ineffecient. I am looking at 2 options: 1) subbing this estimating type of work out or 2) buying software to make it more effecient.
> 
> ...


IMO, you really need to learn how to read a blueprint even if you find a software program that you'll like. Order the prints, there is so much MORE information that you are missing by trying to read/view it online. I do a fair amount of commerical jobs and would lose my a** if I had to bid from a plan room. I pay on average $150 for the drawings, money well spent!


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## DPaint (Jun 9, 2009)

painting247 said:


> IMO, you really need to learn how to read a blueprint even if you find a software program that you'll like. Order the prints, there is so much MORE information that you are missing by trying to read/view it online. I do a fair amount of commerical jobs and would lose my a** if I had to bid from a plan room. I pay on average $150 for the drawings, money well spent!


If you don't mind me asking, what are you missing by viewing the plans online. What is the difference besides having a hard copy of the print in your hand?

Thanks


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## Induspray (Dec 10, 2009)

fresh coat said:


> We are getting about 5 commercial requests for bids / wk. It drives me crazy going to the online bid rooms and trying to read a print on screen. It's not difficult, just very ineffecient. I am looking at 2 options: 1) subbing this estimating type of work out or 2) buying software to make it more effecient.
> 
> I do not want to have the physical prints sent to me. I think if someone was equipped they would blow right through someone doing it manually.
> 
> Has anyone subbed this type of work out or have a software package to recommend. Or any other ideas would be welcomed. Thanks for your help.


If I were you I would outsource it to someone who does take offs on prints every day. Send them the digital files. The more expensive companies will have errors and ommision insurance so if they mess up then they have to pay the cost. You can pay anywhere from $5 per hour for someone located anywhere in the world to $15 to $30 in the US. Some of them may be close to you geographically if that made a difference.
You can search the internet for outsourcing, construction, blueprint take offs or other sets of terms.

I agree with you, spend you time doing the things that move the business forward the most - sales and marketing and outsource everything else you can to low price people who want to do it.


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## Pntpos (Nov 16, 2010)

Try out Scaletoplancenter.com love it so far.


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

I am actually in a class this semester that is called "Interpreting Architectural Drawings". There is alot to it. Full sized prints, an architects scale and hours getting the plan for the site into your head. I am sure after a while it will come second nature like all things, but there is alot to blueprints.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

nEighter said:


> I am actually in a class this semester that is called "Interpreting Architectural Drawings". There is alot to it. Full sized prints, an architects scale and hours getting the plan for the site into your head. I am sure after a while it will come second nature like all things, but there is alot to blueprints.


Sure you could do that, but what what about me an old guy? lol


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