# AAA Machine Thread



## NEPS.US

My new favorite sprayer got a sweet upgrade today thanks to Jack from Express Pump Repair, aka Mr.Fixit on PT. He made up a nice set up of a "T" splitter with two shut off valves so I could maximize the production of this unit. I have one line for the AA fluid line and the other for the Airless line. Now the same rig can be used for priming, ceilings, millwork, cabinets, doors and walls.


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## Workaholic

Looks sweet Chris. :thumbsup:


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## bikerboy

I'm a little dense. (surprised?) Are you saying you have one dedicated for airless only and the other for air assist only? (I can't see the air line so I'm confused)


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## NEPS.US

The "air" line is coming off the compressor and is linked up with the fluid line wrapped around the handle. The airless line is on the spray reel.


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## NEPS.US

In the second picture the top valve is for the airless and the bottom valve is for the fluid line of the AA.


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## vermontpainter

NEPS.US said:


> The "air" line is coming off the compressor and is linked up with the fluid line wrapped around the handle. The airless line is on the spray reel.


Chris

Cool modification. Are there situations where you would be running airless in one room and aaa in another? Would you be doing ceilings/walls in such proximity to an aaa spraying trim? I'm sure you have a bunch of ways that this will help you.


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## NEPS.US

vermontpainter said:


> Chris
> 
> Cool modification. Are there situations where you would be running airless in one room and aaa in another? Would you be doing ceilings/walls in such proximity to an aaa spraying trim? I'm sure you have a bunch of ways that this will help you.


 
It is possible. When spraying a trim pack I usually prefer to use a nice wide tip like a 517 for doors and then a ff 312 for trim with the AA. I havent tried it yet but it may work. 

I did the mod mostly to be able to use the same machine for all aspects of spraying a NC project.


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## vermontpainter

NEPS.US said:


> It is possible. When spraying a trim pack I usually prefer to use a nice wide tip like a 517 for doors and then a ff 312 for trim with the AA. I havent tried it yet but it may work.
> 
> I did the mod mostly to be able to use the same machine for all aspects of spraying a NC project.


I was just running my aaa today, I'd be curious how it would be to draw two guns off it simultaneously.


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## JoseyWales

NEPS.US said:


> It is possible. When spraying a trim pack I usually prefer to use a nice wide tip like a 517 for doors and then a ff 312 for trim with the AA. I havent tried it yet but it may work.
> 
> I did the mod mostly to be able to use the same machine for all aspects of spraying a NC project.


Isn't a 517 too much volume?...Most of the time I use a 412 for doors and a 212 for trim.

How is the finish with an air assisted? The guns are different aren't they? Curious,why the 6" fan for trim?


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## NEPS.US

JoseyWales said:


> Isn't a 517 too much volume?...Most of the time I use a 412 for doors and a 212 for trim.
> 
> How is the finish with an air assisted? The guns are different aren't they? Curious,why the 6" fan for trim?


I prefer a wide tip for doors. 

Most of out millwork are 4 1/2 to 8 inch casings. A 212 is too small IMO. I also learned how to spray trim years ago with a 415 airless.


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## NEPS.US

vermontpainter said:


> I was just running my aaa today, I'd be curious how it would be to draw two guns off it simultaneously.


I dont belive the 440 can handle that.


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## NEPS.US

That poor machine is only 2 months old. Sucker has taken a beating.


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## Lambrecht

Good idea for a set-up I like it.


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## zx-6

Hi neps nice set-up, just like to know what sort of pressure your spraying at and how it effects each gun.


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## jack pauhl

I thought going from AA to A was a flip of the switch? No?


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## NEPS.US

jack pauhl said:


> I thought going from AA to A was a flip of the switch? No?


It is but it's only a 50ft hose with the AA gun, you cant attatch that gun to a spray pole, the air hose is cumbersome for ceilings or priming, I prefer not to blast tons of primer and ceiling paint through the cap gun, ect. 

Switching over to a airless line/gun with 100-150ft of hose makes life much easier. 

It's all about production and systems Jack -


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## mike75

Great idea your killing two birds with one stone .You just solved another production issue i had thanks.:thumbup::thumbsup:


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## mike75

Does the titan have issues like the graco with the gun aircap clagging up?


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## zx-6

The reason i ask about pressure is i have an aa and i spray @ 1000 psi and 25 psi air pressure depending on material used, but when im spraying with straight airless im spraying @ 1800 psi. Just wondering what you do with the two different guns running at the same time.


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## mike75

What do you spray through your machine(paint) and what do you use it for?


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## mike75

zx-6 said:


> The reason i ask about pressure is i have an aa and i spray @ 1000 psi and 25 psi air pressure depending on material used, but when im spraying with straight airless im spraying @ 1800 psi. Just wondering what you do.


Gday mate how are ya


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## zx-6

I think i might have had a brain wave. Darf bugger. One gun at a time. Silly me.


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## zx-6

Hi Mike i mainly use my aa for enamel and my airless for the rest. I use a .009 for enamel work and 413 for door and 210 fft for arcs and skirts and windows (undercoats), a 517 for ceilings. Like i said in another post to get the best out of your aa using enamel you have to get the viscosity right once you do that the gun will amaze you


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## jack pauhl

NEPS.US said:


> It is but it's only a 50ft hose with the AA gun, you cant attatch that gun to a spray pole, the air hose is cumbersome for ceilings or priming, I prefer not to blast tons of primer and ceiling paint through the cap gun, ect.
> 
> Switching over to a airless line/gun with 100-150ft of hose makes life much easier.
> 
> It's all about production and systems Jack -


That's what I keep sayin! And all this systems and efficiency business gives you more time to screw with other tweaks and mods. 

Ok makes sense. I'll have the 395 tomorrow am.


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## mike75

let me know how it works out for you please:detective::detective


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## NEPS.US

zx-6 said:


> The reason i ask about pressure is i have an aa and i spray @ 1000 psi and 25 psi air pressure depending on material used, but when im spraying with straight airless im spraying @ 1800 psi. Just wondering what you do with the two different guns running at the same time.


ZX - I like the same pressure range on both but only operating one gun at a time.


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## mr.fixit

thanks for the props Chris and thanks for the ride to the Ben Moore show last night. I emailed Steve Turner today as he requested. More networking I love it.


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## paintpro08

Hi, found this new video from the Finishpro on the web:


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## ReNt A PaInTeR

Where Have I seen that shop before ? :whistling2:


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## RCP

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> Where Have I seen that shop before ? :whistling2:


Ha, i thought the sticker was a nice touch!:thumbsup:


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## Paradigmzz

See I like Chris even more. I have 2 440s and a Multifinish sitting out in my garage right now. 

Gun aircap does not clog near as bad as all the complaints I have heard from other members. I shot 50 gall of lacquer and never clogged up once. Broke of some build up, but no clogs. 

For all you graco lovers, I got a 5900 Gmax convertible too...


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## vermontpainter

Paradigmzz said:


> See I like Chris even more. I have 2 440s and a Multifinish sitting out in my garage right now.
> 
> Gun aircap does not clog near as bad as all the complaints I have heard from other members. I shot 50 gall of lacquer and never clogged up once. Broke of some build up, but no clogs.
> 
> For all you graco lovers, I got a 5900 Gmax convertible too...


I have more Titan machines than Graco in my shop, although they should be even by this time tomorrow. Both good manufacturers. I had never owned a Graco up until last year. I like both, and for my needs, Graco fills in the gaps that I never got into with my Titans.


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## Workaholic

vermontpainter said:


> I have more Titan machines than Graco in my shop, although they should be even by this time tomorrow. Both good manufacturers. I had never owned a Graco up until last year. I like both, and for my needs, Graco fills in the gaps that I never got into with my Titans.


New money maker coming tomorrow? What type?


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## vermontpainter

Workaholic said:


> New money maker coming tomorrow? What type?


:shutup: 

One that we dont have yet.


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## RCP

vermontpainter said:


> :shutup:
> 
> One that we dont have yet.


Think we are going to have to read about it elsewhere.


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## Workaholic

vermontpainter said:


> :shutup:
> 
> One that we dont have yet.


Loose lips sink ships huh?


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## vermontpainter

Workaholic said:


> Loose lips sink ships huh?


:whistling2:


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## Workaholic

vermontpainter said:


> :whistling2:


lol 
I'll read about it somewhere eventually.


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## NEPS.US

Whats the point of having the air pressure at 1775 with the air assist? Couldnt you achive the same finish with a regular airless at that pressure with a FF tip?


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## vermontpainter

NEPS.US said:


> Whats the point of having the air pressure at 1775 with the air assist? couldnt you achive the same finish with a regular airless at that pressure with a FF tip?


Actually no. On the first few pieces, I turned the switch to airless. It was way too much material to lay out with no air. It sucked.


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## NEPS.US

Actually yes.

At that pressure with the right tip there shouldnt of been a issue.


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## NEPS.US

Maybe my experience with my Titan and FF tips are just different. 

Either way it looks like in the video that you had the right combination with little overspray.


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## NEPS.US

I have a Titan 5 stage HVLP showing up this week. If I ever get Youtube video's going maybe I can challenge you and Jack against your Graco's. :yes:


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## vermontpainter

NEPS.US said:


> I have a Titan 5 stage HVLP showing up this week. If I ever get Youtube video's going maybe I can challenge you and Jack against your Graco's. :yes:


Its so ridiculously easy. I shoot them on my phone and upload right straight to my youtube channel from the phone. And I am a technology dum dum.


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## jack pauhl

NEPS.US said:


> I have a Titan 5 stage HVLP showing up this week. If I ever get Youtube video's going maybe I can challenge you and Jack against your Graco's. :yes:


bah! Im not liking how slow the 395FP is... we were shooting 18/1390

too soon to tell if I like this thing or not.


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## Workaholic

jack pauhl said:


> bah! Im not liking how slow the 395FP is... we were shooting 18/1390
> 
> too soon to tell if I like this thing or not.


I love the look of a brand new machine. :thumbsup:


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## jack pauhl

Workaholic said:


> I love the look of a brand new machine. :thumbsup:


...and the smell of new motors in the morning.


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## NEPS.US

Thats a dainty looking rig you got there......:whistling2:


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## Workaholic

jack pauhl said:


> ...and the smell of new motors in the morning.


Did graco give you that and tell you to beat the hell out of it?


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## NEPS.US

I think the best thing about that Graco is the box to hold stuff and the cup holder. 

Did you guys see the title of this thread? Did it say AAA machine thread? Or something else? :jester:


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## vermontpainter

Jack

18 seems low. What were you shooting for product?


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## jack pauhl

NEPS.US said:


> I think the best thing about that Graco is the box to hold stuff and the cup holder.
> 
> Did you guys see the title of this thread? Did it say AAA machine thread? Or something else? :jester:


Oh you're right ... my bad. wt? Are there 2 AA threads going? Must be


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## Workaholic

NEPS.US said:


> I think the best thing about that Graco is the box to hold stuff and the cup holder.
> 
> Did you guys see the title of this thread? Did it say AAA machine thread? Or something else? :jester:


You can add the boxes cheap enough. 

lol


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## jack pauhl

vermontpainter said:


> Jack
> 
> 18 seems low. What were you shooting for product?


Graco rep set it up, I dialed it in. We shot ICI 350 Diamond.


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## jack pauhl

Chris, Scott... lets say you get a new trim paint to shoot with the AA but its something you've shot with A. How do you guys go about getting dialed in?

Do you just set it to 1800 because that is what you shot with A and then add air or what have you found gets best results?


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## vermontpainter

jack pauhl said:


> Graco rep set it up, I dialed it in. We shot ICI 350 Diamond.


One thing to watch is that when you engage the trigger it bogs down a few psi. If you want it at 18 under a load, set it at about 22 idle. Not familiar with diamond, but I'd turn it up. Follow the setting template stamped on the manifold. Its pretty accurate, if anything I err on the bottom end of their recommended ranges.


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## DeanV

The long direction say to set the fluid pressure so tails are almost gone and then hit it with air to get atomizing the rest of the way. So, if you do not want to follow the chart as a starting point, that is another way to at least get fluid pressure started out.


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## NEPS.US

jack pauhl said:


> Chris, Scott... lets say you get a new trim paint to shoot with the AA but its something you've shot with A. How do you guys go about getting dialed in?
> 
> Do you just set it to 1800 because that is what you shot with A and then add air or what have you found gets best results?





DeanV said:


> The long direction say to set the fluid pressure so tails are almost gone and then hit it with air to get atomizing the rest of the way. So, if you do not want to follow the chart as a starting point, that is another way to at least get fluid pressure started out.


I set the fluid pressure to around 1200 before I hit the air and depending on tip and product I dial it in from there. 

We are shooting another trim pack tomorrow so I will record the settings.


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## NEPS.US

Who's the funny guy that changes the title of this thread?? :boxing:

There go my Titan perks.


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## jack pauhl

DeanV said:


> The long direction say to set the fluid pressure so tails are almost gone and then hit it with air to get atomizing the rest of the way. So, if you do not want to follow the chart as a starting point, that is another way to at least get fluid pressure started out.


The tails are pretty much what the focus of discussion was as a benefit of the AA model. Although, I rarely have tails when shooting A. Must be the paints I use but I see tails on lots of other spray jobs but those guys are using different paints, mostly some SW variety. 200, superpaint etc.

I have to shoot a house (trim/doors) in the morning. Going to shoot primer then 2 coats of paint. I'll record what I do, what I shot.


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## NEPS.US

jack pauhl said:


> The tails are pretty much what the focus of discussion was as a benefit of the AA model. Although, I rarely have tails when shooting A. Must be the paints I use but I see tails on lots of other spray jobs but those guys are using different paints, mostly some SW variety. 200, superpaint etc.
> 
> I have to shoot a house (trim/doors) in the morning. Going to shoot primer then 2 coats of paint.


 
It's gonna drive you nuts how slow it is. :yes:


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## DeanV

Tails are a result of wrong pressure and/or tip size in an airless. No reason for them to be there IMO unless someone is doing something wrong.


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## DeanV

NEPS.US said:


> It's gonna drive you nuts how slow it is. :yes:



I warned him in another thread that it would be slower.


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## vermontpainter

Jack

Its a counterintuitive rig, especially for those of us who have years into airless. 

Whats whack about it is that its a pump with serious pressure, but on the other end is a sexy G40 that says "hvlp" on it. 

That makes you think "low pressure", like you are doing something wrong if you arent at 800 or less. But, the only thing that gives the g40 or any gun the hvlp badge is its transfer efficiency. I believe if a gun hits 80%, it qualifies. 

This in turn, makes it rather remarkable that you can run this thing with ballsy pressure and a pretty refined air injection that creates minimal overspray. 

Its pretty cool technology. No matter whose name is on it.


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## NEPS.US

DeanV said:


> I warned him in another thread that it would be slower.


But the consistency and the finish are worth the time.


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## jack pauhl

NEPS.US said:


> It's gonna drive you nuts how slow it is. :yes:


Yea it already has... I had a feeling that would be the case. Its very similar to shooting with an HVLP but being able to shoot acrylics with wider patterns to a nice finish effortlessly. I watched Scotts video and he's moving like I was. That will drive me nuts. I'm thinking the AA will be used selectively and sparingly.


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## jack pauhl

Did either of you get the flat tip conversion? I need a 2" pattern so before I try the conversion, I am going to try a FF110 with AA and see it that gets me what I need for casement style windows.


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## vermontpainter

jack pauhl said:


> Did either of you get the flat tip conversion? I need a 2" pattern so before I try the conversion, I am going to try a FF110 with AA and see it that gets me what I need for casement style windows.


:no:


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## jack pauhl

DeanV said:


> I warned him in another thread that it would be slower.


Dean do you have one now or were you demo'ing one? Cant remember..


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## NEPS.US

jack pauhl said:


> Yea it already has... I had a feeling that would be the case. Its very similar to shooting with an HVLP but being able to shoot acrylics with wider patterns to a nice finish effortlessly. I watched Scotts video and he's moving like I was. That will drive me nuts. I'm thinking the AA will be used selectively and sparingly.


 
For my situation I am trying to get myself off the tools a little more as I grow. On any given day we could be spraying on multiple sites and quality and consistency is my business. I find that with proper training that this is a fool proof machine to spray trim with. When I am training a new spray guy (airless) I usually start with priming walls and ceilings, then priming trim and doors, then backrolling ceilings, then shooting the ceilings, then back rolling walls, then shooting walls, then shooting basic trim packs, the shooting doors, then shooting metals, ect, ect. This process could take a very long time before the operator has enough spray hours in each step to be able to handle shooting trim with a airless and not wrecking the place and costing me alot of money. I can put this gun into the hands of a guy with moderate spray experience and get optimal results. Spraying trim with a airless is very fast and with our systems a screw up could be very costly and really impact the next days work. With the "slowness" of the AAA the operator can really manipulate the paint and multi coat in a short period of time to achieve the results I want. Consistency and quality without me having to do all the spraying.


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## DeanV

I have one right now (same one you have). I have far fewer hours on it than VP though, mine has only seen clears (and will until I get a second for paint) and been used for a couple small jobs so far. My new construction has been down since my 2 main builders went out of business and I have not replaced them yet, so the sprayers are not getting as much use.


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## jack pauhl

DeanV said:


> I have one right now (same one you have). I have far fewer hours on it than VP though, mine has only seen clears (and will until I get a second for paint) and been used for a couple small jobs so far. My new construction has been down since my 2 main builders went out of business and I have not replaced them yet, so the sprayers are not getting as much use.


Ok. My main concern with the AA on NC is build. I take advantage of build to make MDF look polished. NEPS brought up good points in previous thread. Its slowness has advantages but not sure for me if this is the right 'overall' tool. Like I mentioned, I think for me it might be best used selectively. I'll be shooting with it mon-thurs so by the end of the week I'll have a better idea.

We can get build with AA but that takes longer yet. I dont necessarily want to take spraying a house from under 2 hours to over 4. That will actually require adjusting systems accordingly.


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## NEPS.US

jack pauhl said:


> Chris, Scott... lets say you get a new trim paint to shoot with the AA but its something you've shot with A. How do you guys go about getting dialed in?
> 
> Do you just set it to 1800 because that is what you shot with A and then add air or what have you found gets best results?


 
Today I shot a trim pack with BM Regal Semi (and Aura Semi 4:1, dont ask why) with a 312 FF Tip, 35 and 1700.


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## DeanV

NEPS.US said:


> Today I shot a trim pack with BM Regal Semi (and Aura Semi 4:1, dont ask why) with a 312 FF Tip, 35 and 1700.



Why can't I ask why?


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## NEPS.US

I'm working on a super secret formula. :shutup:


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## jack pauhl

I shot Gripper all day, reduced by 16 oz per gallon at 2000, no assist, FFT210. That was awesome!~ Flawless. gotta laugh because its primer and it looked done.


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## jack pauhl

NEPS.US said:


> I'm working on a super secret formula. :shutup:


Let me guess... 4:1? pssh that was easy.


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## robladd

Neps nice job on your T set up. You have dedicated your machine for airless or air assisted airless depending on finishing schedule. I have been spraying AAA for many years now and my rig is larger and more cumbersome to see a small compact unit set up like yours makes me consider to go smaller but I just can't do it. Big is not always better. I run a Speeflo Atlas 30:1 air assisted airless it takes a pickup and a couple guys to move it around. But I am able to spray just about anything with it but I have to work off the truck. I only wish I had mobility like that. Nice job man I hope it's working out for. Rob


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## paintpro08

Made some photos to see the differences between different air assist guns:

Graco G40 gun with AAM flat tip and RAC tip:










The AAM gun (on the right) has 6 air holes, the RAC gun 4.










When you unscrew the tipguard, both guns have two air passages on the top, but the AAM gun also has several airholes around the fluid passage (right).










The gun from Titan has 6 smaller airholes, the Graco RAC gun 4 larger.










Both guns again have 2 large air passages, but the Titan gun also delivers air around the fluid passage (left)


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## NCPaint1

If you're running both guns simultaneously do you get any drops in pressure on either line? just curious.

I have made similar setups for guys that want to run 2 guns, never with AA though. I did a 2 gun setup on a LP460 for a contractor to spray deck sealer. 

I like Mr.Fixit's setup, but I would have skipped the two 90 Deg. elbows, and had the valves shooting straight off each side. The extra bends might restrict flow...I like to keep everything as straight as possible.

Those kind of setups can run around $150'ish, depending on the valves and gauges that you go with. Dont go to the hardware store and try to build one. You need all "high pressure" fittings, and pressure valves/gauge. 5000psi rating is what you'll want.


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## DeanV

I do not think he is running both guns at once, it is just for easy switching between the 2 set-ups. Those size pumps are a bit small for that I think unless I am underestimating the 440.


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## NEPS.US

NCPaint1 said:


> If you're running both guns simultaneously do you get any drops in pressure on either line? just curious.
> 
> I have made similar setups for guys that want to run 2 guns, never with AA though. I did a 2 gun setup on a LP460 for a contractor to spray deck sealer.
> 
> I like Mr.Fixit's setup, but I would have skipped the two 90 Deg. elbows, and had the valves shooting straight off each side. The extra bends might restrict flow...I like to keep everything as straight as possible.
> 
> Those kind of setups can run around $150'ish, depending on the valves and gauges that you go with. Dont go to the hardware store and try to build one. You need all "high pressure" fittings, and pressure valves/gauge. 5000psi rating is what you'll want.


One line at a time. The dual lines are meant to maximize the efficiency of the machine for using two differnet types of guns, just not at the same time. 

The pressure wont change over the 90's. I asked him to build it to have the lines going straight ahead because I dont want any issues with lines being bent during transport in a truck or trailer. It just makes sense for this machine.


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## jack pauhl

Chris... it took only 2 full days of using the 395 to pull all my hair out. I can fully understand why you wanted that setup. That machine should have been designed that way. Did I mention how much I hate the hose?

ATTN R&D dept. 
#1 determine how the product will be used. See NEPS, DeanV, Jack Pauhl, VermontPainter


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## NEPS.US

jack pauhl said:


> . Did I mention how much I hate the hose?


No swivel SUCKS!

And I hate the handle of the gun. My hand cramps up after 10 minutes.


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## vermontpainter

We continue to joyride our 395 to absolute bliss in the shop. Shooting duration ext with the pressure turned down to 1400 today, no thinning and a beautiful finish. 

I am starting to see the beauty of having multiple options. Like Jack, I do find the hose to be like dragging a python around. When I feel that way, I spend a day with the Proshot, shooting freestyle. Well, that gets heavy fast and has overspray, so I might spend some qt with a hvlp, and then I get sick of its own shortcomings, and I am cycling back toward that sporty G40 with the python attached. 

Variety = spice of life.


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## NEPS.US

Jack - Are you mad that Graco is now paying Scott for comments and not you? :jester::jester::jester:

_...........just kidding fellas'_


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## Workaholic

NEPS.US said:


> Jack - Are you mad that Graco is now paying Scott for comments and not you? :jester::jester::jester:
> 
> _...........just kidding fellas'_


lol 
they give the guy a aaa machine and this how he responds. 
J/K JP


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## NEPS.US

Workaholic said:


> lol
> they give the guy a aaa machine and this how he responds.
> J/K JP


No kidding. At least Scott knows how to keep getting free stuff. :jester:


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## Workaholic

NEPS.US said:


> No kidding. At least Scott knows how to keep getting free stuff. :jester:


lol Scott is smooth. 

So what is the deal with this pump, you can only run 50' max hose for the aaa portion?


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## NEPS.US

Workaholic said:


> lol Scott is smooth.
> 
> So what is the deal with this pump, you can only run 50' max hose for the aaa portion?


That would be my next question to my Titan rep. 50' is too short.


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## Workaholic

NEPS.US said:


> That would be my next question to my Titan rep. 50' is too short.


Sounds like a pain for 2 story homes or homes with basements, or exterior spray jobs. 

Both the titan and the graco are limited to the same 50' right?


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## NEPS.US

Yes both are the same, but that machine will never see an exterior.


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## DeanV

For fluid, it should not be a problem, but air pressure loss over 100' could be a problem I would guess since we are not dealing with a hugely adjustable air compressor. I do not remember what the air pressure drop is for every 50' feet any more.


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## Workaholic

NEPS.US said:


> Yes both are the same, but that machine will never see an exterior.


Never used one. 
I may have to start blogging.


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## NEPS.US

It's a tiny compressor. I would think there would be a significant drop over 50.


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## Workaholic

DeanV said:


> For fluid, it should not be a problem, but air pressure loss over 100' could be a problem I would guess since we are not dealing with a hugely adjustable air compressor. I do not remember what the air pressure drop is for every 50' feet any more.


Yeah I figured it was air pressure but a 50' hose sucks on two story NC, I like to park my rig and leave it, not move it up stairs.


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## NEPS.US

Workaholic said:


> Yeah I figured it was air pressure but a 50' hose sucks on two story NC, I like to park my rig and leave it, not move it up stairs.


I just used mine on a 2 story contemporary with a huge finished basement. I had to set up in two different spots on the first floor to gain access up a stairway and over a balcony to do both main floors. I then had to move it to the basement to spray that. Yes it's a pain in the ass.


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## jack pauhl

NEPS.US said:


> No swivel SUCKS!
> 
> And I hate the handle of the gun. My hand cramps up after 10 minutes.


I'll have to take a look at the gun you have. Love the G-40 tho, wow thats a nice gun and I kept thinking about how comfortable it was to shoot around casings and inside jambs. The other thing I really liked about the G-40 is how simple the guard threads on with that new style. Its quick and unrestricted access. The bad thing is... it spits with each pull of the trigger. Now shot 3 different materials.


----------



## vermontpainter

jack pauhl said:


> I'll have to take a look at the gun you have. Love the G-40 tho, wow thats a nice gun and I kept thinking about how comfortable it was to shoot around casings and inside jambs. The other thing I really liked about the G-40 is how simple the guard threads on with that new style. Its quick and unrestricted access. The bad thing is... it spits with each pull of the trigger. Now shot 3 different materials.


Thats interesting. Mine wouldnt spit if it had a mouthful.


----------



## jack pauhl

NEPS.US said:


> Jack - Are you mad that Graco is now paying Scott for comments and not you? :jester::jester::jester:
> 
> _...........just kidding fellas'_


He's not being paid. He would have to disclose that. Thats the beauty of non-paid reviews. If I dont like something, I tell it like it is. Not sure if readers would like part of the truth or keep certain things quiet. I have a list of 9 things I hate about this rig but I would buy one based on what I've seen so far in my short time with the 395.


----------



## vermontpainter

Most good manufacturers are more interested in what you dont like about their stuff than what you do like about it. Kind of like paint contractors.


----------



## NEPS.US

No spitting here either. 

I was pretty sure the cap spray GM3600 gun was identical to the G40. 

Replacement is $479.00 for the gun alone.


----------



## NEPS.US

jack pauhl said:


> He's not being paid. He would have to disclose that. Thats the beauty of non-paid reviews. If I dont like something, I tell it like it is. Not sure if readers would like part of the truth or keep certain things quiet. I have a list of 9 things I hate about this rig but I would buy one based on what I've seen so far in my short time with the 395.


 
I was just kidding. 

Pro's and con's please, or at least a link to your blog when you do it .


----------



## jack pauhl

NEPS.US said:


> No spitting here either.
> 
> I was pretty sure the cap spray GM3600 gun was identical to the G40.
> 
> Replacement is $479.00 for the gun alone.


Are you used to 2 finger guns? Looks like the G-40? kinda


----------



## NEPS.US

jack pauhl said:


> Are you used to 2 finger guns?


I only use 2 finger guns. Graco contractor's.


----------



## jack pauhl

NEPS.US said:


> I only use 2 finger guns. Graco contractor's.


My preference too. The only 4 finger I have is the SG3. I do 2 finger on it near the bottom tho.


----------



## jack pauhl

vermontpainter said:


> Thats interesting. Mine wouldnt spit if it had a mouthful.


Are you saying I got bad parts!?! You should see the breadcrumbs I leave with this G40. Obviously had to change up my spray technique to make it work. Speaking of techniques... I'll shoot some vids when I get back at the big house. Everyone seems to comment on my technique but not so sure its anything special. Will see.


----------



## DeanV

I find the G40 gun really comfortable. And I usually use a 4 finger gun held with 2 fingers near the bottom. I do not like regular 2 finger airless guns, the pull is too stiff. My G40 does not spit at all either.


----------



## DeanV

jack pauhl said:


> Are you saying I got bad parts!?! You should see the breadcrumbs I leave with this G40. Obviously had to change up my spray technique to make it work. Speaking of techniques... I'll shoot some vids when I get back at the big house. Everyone seems to comment on my technique but not so sure its anything special. Will see.


operator error:jester:


----------



## jack pauhl

DeanV said:


> operator error:jester:


The rep put the thing together. Maybe I'll take it apart and look it over and make sure its all good. Not sure what else to check. It was spitting when the rep did the demo too. It spits on/trigger and trails spit off/trigger.


----------



## vermontpainter

jack pauhl said:


> Are you saying I got bad parts!?!


No, maybe a little bad luck on this unit though!


----------



## NEPS.US

robladd said:


> Neps nice job on your T set up. You have dedicated your machine for airless or air assisted airless depending on finishing schedule. I have been spraying AAA for many years now and my rig is larger and more cumbersome to see a small compact unit set up like yours makes me consider to go smaller but I just can't do it. Big is not always better. I run a Speeflo Atlas 30:1 air assisted airless it takes a pickup and a couple guys to move it around. But I am able to spray just about anything with it but I have to work off the truck. I only wish I had mobility like that. Nice job man I hope it's working out for. Rob


 
Thanks Rob. 

I'd love to see a pic of that set up. 

What are you spraying with it?


----------



## robladd

Neps. I will send a picture tomorrow of the rig. I can tell you that it took me about the whole Holiday Season a few years ago Shopping on EBay to get the Pump, Compressor, and gun at the price I was willing to pay. The whole set is some where in the mid 5k if you were to buy it from the Spray store. After shopping on EBay around Christmas it cost me about a 1/4 of that. I do mostly finish paints with the AAA any thing that has a sheen. Oil and WB Glosses, Semi Glosses and Satins. Every thing else flats and eggshell I shoot Airless. Clear coats on new construction in my state is pretty much all done by factory due to the SCAQD regs on Voc's. Any repaints is a major ordeal to follow the reg's to the letter. So we go with WB


----------



## NCPaint1

jack pauhl said:


> The rep put the thing together. Maybe I'll take it apart and look it over and make sure its all good. Not sure what else to check. It was spitting when the rep did the demo too. It spits on/trigger and trails spit off/trigger.


I think thats from the little bit of material that is left around where the tip and guard meet. Its really annoying.


----------



## ReNt A PaInTeR

jack pauhl said:


> ...and the smell of new motors in the morning.


:thumbup: Painter's P.orn :clap:


----------



## robladd

Neps here is a couple of pics of the rig.


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## NEPS.US

That's a beast! Thanks for posting.

What are the advantages to a rig like that compared to a smaller unit like we are using? 

More durable? Longer hoses?


----------



## robladd

I don't know if you all can see the AAA system that well from the pics, it's my first time sending photos on PT. In the pump pic if you look to the right side of the air motor you can see the AAA valve and HVLP regulator. All I do to go from Airless to Air Assist is open that valve. Also in the pic is the air separator, manifold, pump regulator, lubricator, and pump valve that's the one to start and stop the airless. If any one has any question continue to send a thread. This one has been going awhile and it's really turned into a good experience for all! Thanks Rob


----------



## straight_lines

NCPaint1 said:


> I think thats from the little bit of material that is left around where the tip and guard meet. Its really annoying.


 Yup and I keep a rag in hand to wipe what pools in that area about every 6 or so sprays. 



NEPS.US said:


> That's a beast! Thanks for posting.
> 
> What are the advantages to a rig like that compared to a smaller unit like we are using?
> 
> More durable? Longer hoses?


 That rig of his looks serious, you can find HD roll air compressors on craigslist cheap right now from out of work framers. 

I didn't know speeflow even made pumps like that. Or is that some hybrid built with a speeflow airless?


----------



## robladd

Straight_lines. To your question is this something that I put together? No this is a rig offered by Speeflo for many years. You could have bought it in either airless or airless air assist. It can spray pretty much anything, but like I was telling Neps.US a rig this size has it's pros and cons like any other piece of equipment. Most of the time I leave it on the truck and use really long hose lengths for airless spray. But for air assist I take the pump and move it closer to the work, it takes a small crew to move it around. I could run really long hoses for air assist but it's not practical for me.


----------



## bloodnut

Any more updates on AAA use? I get mine in a months time, been waiting for you guys to give more good or bad reviews on the 395 AAA. Not to many guys down here in Australia using, but i'm gonna give it a shot. All advice is welcome.
Cheers Bloodnut:thumbsup:


----------



## Paradigmzz

bloodnut said:


> Any more updates on AAA use? I get mine in a months time, been waiting for you guys to give more good or bad reviews on the 395 AAA. Not to many guys down here in Australia using, but i'm gonna give it a shot. All advice is welcome.
> Cheers Bloodnut:thumbsup:


I like my Titan multi finish a lot. Although this doesn't help you review the graco...

Sent from my PC36100 using Paint Talk


----------



## mike75

Finally had some success with my Graco395fp .Sprayed all the woodwork in a house using Solver satin Acrylic enamel and came out nearly as good as oilbased enamel.I think i finally found a use for the machine,used the instructions on the side of the machine with ff210 and did 15 doors,frames,windows in about 20 minutes per coat. By lunch i had demasked the whole house,hung the doors and started prepping walls for final coats.Cant beleive how easy and forgiving the spray pattern was.Did find that by tightening up the guard quite hard decreased the amount of build up which was easily cleaned off periodically by wiping it off with your finger.Good luck with yours.


----------



## bloodnut

Thanks for your reply Mike75, cant wait get the new gun. Have been using 695 airless on doors & frames for the last couple of years, with Dulux Aqua enamel.
Problem i'm having with airless is a couple of runs on final coat on the top edges of frames. This is why i'm buying a ff gun. Can get my doors looking spot on though, we have a system where we spray our doors flat with airless using 410ff tip & 50% overlap.
Cheers Bloodnut:thumbsup:


----------



## robladd

bloodnut said:


> Any more updates on AAA use? I get mine in a months time, been waiting for you guys to give more good or bad reviews on the 395 AAA. Not to many guys down here in Australia using, but i'm gonna give it a shot. All advice is welcome.
> Cheers Bloodnut:thumbsup:


I would like to pass on to you that I have a small 5.5 CFM electric compressor that I use with my Airlessco 690. It's no where near as compact as the 395aa or 440aa units with the onboard compressors. But I can spray AAA with just "Power" that's what us Yanks call electricity. It is easier to move than my big air driven gasoline rig. I believe down under you would call that a " Petro" rig. Cheers Bloodnut!


----------



## straight_lines

@robladd

What do you do mostly with that set up? Obviously a lot of site work, what materials do you use mostly? Also do you clean the air?


----------



## robladd

straight_lines said:


> @robladd
> 
> What do you do mostly with that set up? Obviously a lot of site work, what materials do you use mostly? Also do you clean the air?


Not sure which sprayer your asking about. The Speeflo 30:1 is a production rig I use it when power is an issue. The Airlessco 690 is my everyday sprayer when power is available and not having to paint too
much. I have a moisture seperator and regulator I use at the electric compressor, I shoot pretty much any Finish Paint with either rig. 

I live tween the blue box and orange so that gives me a choice of glidden,
behr, valspar and olympic. I do prefer flecto products for clears they are spendy so thats when I use SMALL tips. There is really only 4 other stores
in vegas. Dunn Edward, Frazee, Sherwin Williams and Vista. The others are so small there not worth my time.

I like to go to the nearest store to the job. To me any reputable company makes quality materials I don't like to get hung up on manufacture bashing.
Truely I Love to spray AAA for 2 reasons. Finer Finishes and increased transfer efficiency. Saves money and you can put more paint on if there is VOC regulations in your region.

The old question lack of production or quality job. I figure its like apples to oranges. AAA is cleaner you have to work longer but not harder but the end result is what really matters "Finest of Finishes". This is my kinda thread. Rob


----------



## mike75

bloodnut said:


> Thanks for your reply Mike75, cant wait get the new gun. Have been using 695 airless on doors & frames for the last couple of years, with Dulux Aqua enamel.
> Problem i'm having with airless is a couple of runs on final coat on the top edges of frames. This is why i'm buying a ff gun. Can get my doors looking spot on though, we have a system where we spray our doors flat with airless using 410ff tip & 50% overlap.
> Cheers Bloodnut:thumbsup:


thanks for your input,what system do have with your doors laying them flat ?Have come up with my own which is a screw on handle which doubles as a stand which allows you to stand the door on its side while its drying.


----------



## straight_lines

robladd said:


> Not sure which sprayer your asking about. The Speeflo 30:1 is a production rig I use it when power is an issue. The Airlessco 690 is my everyday sprayer when power is available and not having to paint too
> much. I have a moisture seperator and regulator I use at the electric compressor, I shoot pretty much any Finish Paint with either rig.
> 
> I live tween the blue box and orange so that gives me a choice of glidden,
> behr, valspar and olympic. I do prefer flecto products for clears they are spendy so thats when I use SMALL tips. There is really only 4 other stores
> in vegas. Dunn Edward, Frazee, Sherwin Williams and Vista. The others are so small there not worth my time.
> 
> I like to go to the nearest store to the job. To me any reputable company makes quality materials I don't like to get hung up on manufacture bashing.
> Truely I Love to spray AAA for 2 reasons. Finer Finishes and increased transfer efficiency. Saves money and you can put more paint on if there is VOC regulations in your region.
> 
> The old question lack of production or quality job. I figure its like apples to oranges. AAA is cleaner you have to work longer but not harder but the end result is what really matters "Finest of Finishes". This is my kinda thread. Rob


What I meant was what type of paint, not necessarily the manufacturer. ie oils, acrylic enamels, latex.. For your site fine finishing. 

I was talking about the speeflo, and if you ever spray lacquers, or conversion varnish. Thus the need for cleaning your air.


----------



## robladd

straight_lines said:


> @robladd
> 
> What do you do mostly with that set up? Obviously a lot of site work, what materials do you use mostly? Also do you clean the air?


In this pic you can see a 3/8" id male quick couple hose fitting. It is connected to the air/moisture separator which cleans the air to the HVLP and Air motor it is connected to the air manifold. I didn't mention that on the manifold there is many plugs for various applications. Air driven mixer, tip cleaner, agitator, duster, and what ever else you may find handy for the job. 
From the manifold to the right is the AAA valve and HVLP regulator. To the left is pump regulator, lubricator and pump valve.

I do my best to do high end custom homes
but that doesn't mean I'll pass a job up just off of MLK. Tilt ups are big here but it's so competitive I'd rather do residential work cause there is no end in sight.

I really can't say what materials I shoot most. I am the type that goes to the nearest reputable paint store and use their materials. I think I know where your going with this. Vegas has blue and orange box 
Behr, glidden, valspar and olympic. In my neighborhood I live tween the 2. There is really only 4 other stores here. Dunn Edwards, Frazee, Vista and Sherwin Williams. The other heavy hitters BM, Coronado, Pitt, PL are so far down on the chain that there is only 1 store or it's sold at another.
I "Like" there's that word Flecto and Dunn Edwards for clears. Paint there is soooooooo many good products on the market and with AAA you can lay any quality material down smoooooth! 
I can't pick just 1. I guess end result is a personal preference. I have done so many of my own homes and others with named brands above that I can't say which paint I like best! Keep em coming great thread thank you all. Rob


----------



## canadianpainter

NEPS.US said:


> I have a Titan 5 stage HVLP showing up this week. If I ever get Youtube video's going maybe I can challenge you and Jack against your Graco's. :yes:


I have the titan 115 6 stage hvlp and I really really love it. I'm excited for you. 

When I got mine, I knew I'd use it a lot, but I had no idea that I'd use it as much as I do. For example:

1200 lockers, no problem; breezed through them in a couple of weeks

26 sheets of plywood stained and finished to furniture quality in a 12'x18' finished room, no problem 

1000's of feet of metal staircase railings and spindles, no problem

5 full skids of 1"x2"x12' pine (each skid was piled at least 3 feet high) that needed 3 coats of minwax polyshades, furniture quality finish on all sides, no probl....well, actually that one was a sonofabitch but the sprayer worked amazing!


----------



## bloodnut

Hi Mike75,
Sent you a PM, not sure if it went through.
Cheers Bloodnut:thumbsup:


----------



## mike75

thanks got your message wont tell a sole haha.When i get a chance i will send u a photo of an idea i am working on to get your opinion.What city do you live in?


----------



## bloodnut

Gold Coast, look forward to your input.
Cheers Bloodnut:thumbup:


----------



## JoseyWales

canadianpainter said:


> I have the titan 115 6 stage hvlp and I really really love it. I'm excited for you.
> 
> When I got mine, I knew I'd use it a lot, but I had no idea that I'd use it as much as I do. For example:
> 
> 1200 lockers, no problem; breezed through them in a couple of weeks
> 
> 26 sheets of plywood stained and finished to furniture quality in a 12'x18' finished room, no problem
> 
> 1000's of feet of metal staircase railings and spindles, no problem
> 
> 5 full skids of 1"x2"x12' pine (each skid was piled at least 3 feet high) that needed 3 coats of minwax polyshades, furniture quality finish on all sides, no probl....well, actually that one was a sonofabitch but the sprayer worked amazing!


I've got a 3 stage HVLP and it collects dust in the garage...The thing is not very good for latex paint...Is a 6 stage that much better?


----------



## jack pauhl

bloodnut said:


> Any more updates on AAA use? I get mine in a months time, been waiting for you guys to give more good or bad reviews on the 395 AAA. Not to many guys down here in Australia using, but i'm gonna give it a shot. All advice is welcome.
> Cheers Bloodnut:thumbsup:


I have a TON of info to add on the 395 but no time to write it up yet. I'm swamped and no idea when I'll get time to post an article. 

Does it spray a nice finish? yes
Did I find it to be a PITA to use? yes. I have a long list of what I dont like about it. Some very valid stuff. One step forward but many steps back.
Was it a production killer? Absolutely.
Would I buy one? Yes if I did not already own an airless.

If you have specific questions, best to shoot me an email, not sure when I'll be back on PT but I do respond to emails.


----------



## straight_lines

One of my stores has a demo model I will be using today. Good bit of oil priming and trim to paint the next few days. 

I can buy that machine on the cheap, and will if I like it.


----------



## crownislandpainting

Hi all, 
just picked up a Graco 390 AAA. No rep here familar with the AAA set up and most just use an airless with FF tip. IN my other straight Graco airless 390 I use titan FF tips with the titan housing. Will these FF titan tips interchange with the Graco FF tip on my new AAA. Going to practice blowing some polycarbonate varnish on an old fir door tomorrow using a Graco ff 210 while.Waiting for a graco 410 ff tip to show up at local paint store and was curious about this. Would be a plus cause I also have another titan pump.
Are the instruction manual settings pretty close or do I use more air for atomizing. 
Thanks
Frank


----------



## mike75

The directions on the side are pretty close to where you want it to be.The tips should be fine to swap around if they are like the rac5.


----------



## crownislandpainting

*thanks Mike*

Mike, 
I read a couple of pages back that you used the FF 210 to do all the trim including the doors. Did you not have a bigger ff tip such as a 410 or a 412 or did you choose to use only the 210 for another reason? Did you thin your paint a little?
Thanks Mike


----------



## mike75

I use the ff210 because the door frames we have on this particular job are only 70mm (3 inches) wide and trying to cut down wastage of paint on the walls.You are right saying that i should be using a ff410/412 but have put it down to being to lazy to swap tips all the time.Also found they would dry up quick sitting in my pocket or end up going missing.I found thinning the paint 5% to be fine or not at all.Hope this helps .:thumbsup:


----------



## robladd

This is how I dial in my gun. I go to the paint makers web sight and look up the PDF for the material I'm spraying.

I go to the application part of the PDF and find recommended tips and pressures.

From there I start with 2/3 rd's of lowest pressure and tip recommended. That usually gets me in the ball park on fluid pressure. Light material less, Heavy material more.

At this time "tails and fingers are a good thing". If I can use a double orifice I do.

Now what I do is start dialing in the air. Light 5-15psi, Medium 15-25psi, Heavy over 25psi at 3 psi increments. 

The least amount pressure and air to atomize. Sincerely Rob


----------



## Dave Mac

I got a 440 for $799 plus 5 tips a gun and 50 ft hose last week, my rep takes care of me.


----------



## vermontpainter

Dave Mac said:


> I got a 440 for $799 plus 5 tips a gun and 50 ft hose last week, my rep takes care of me.


Bigshot :jester:


----------



## Chad_C

vermontpainter said:


> Bigshot :jester:


440 impact yes,440 multi finish not at that price.


----------



## Chad_C

robladd said:


> Neps here is a couple of pics of the rig.


Ok , wow . You know we actually used to make this as standard unit that you could buy. I see this one has some aftermarket parts to make it aaa.
We sold these into cabinet and metal fab shops that used "shop air" 
The big advantage here is that you can run multiple guns and have extended pump life. 
We still have all the components for anyone interested in a fixed shop application. This unit is a bit "overkill" for travel. That's why we came out with the Aircoat, then the 440 multi finish


----------



## Chad_C

NEPS.US said:


> My new favorite sprayer got a sweet upgrade today thanks to Jack from Express Pump Repair, aka Mr.Fixit on PT. He made up a nice set up of a "T" splitter with two shut off valves so I could maximize the production of this unit. I have one line for the AA fluid line and the other for the Airless line. Now the same rig can be used for priming, ceilings, millwork, cabinets, doors and walls.


Nicely done. Thanks for posting.


----------



## robladd

Chad_C said:


> Ok , wow . You know we actually used to make this as standard unit that you could buy. I see this one has some aftermarket parts to make it aaa.
> We sold these into cabinet and metal fab shops that used "shop air"
> The big advantage here is that you can run multiple guns and have extended pump life.
> We still have all the components for anyone interested in a fixed shop application. This unit is a bit "overkill" for travel. That's why we came out with the Aircoat, then the 440 multi finish


Remember Atlas means the World and that rig of mine can paint almost anything on this earth. It's Bad To The Bone!


----------



## Chad_C

robladd said:


> Remember Atlas means the World and that rig of mine can paint almost anything on this earth. It's Bad To The Bone!


Yes it is. I was surprised to see it. We don't make ir anymore. It should last you forever.


----------



## NEPS.US

I liked it so much I had to do it again.


----------



## NEPS.US

Just got my first one back from Jack (MrFixit) from Express Tool Repair. Had a scratch on my ball.


----------



## vermontpainter

Definite sensitive issue. I wish we had a good tool repair shop here that knew rigs.


----------



## Chad_C

Nicely done, just needs RED valves


----------



## Chad_C

Thats Probably why there is a new rock catcher on there too, right. 
Like dad used to say....
Keep it covered, or you could loose your balls


----------



## bcolesafety

Awesome!!!!!


----------



## jack pauhl

*moved from another thread*



CApainter said:


> Side note to jack: I read your review on the Graco 395 AAA. You were exactly right on having to keep the tip constantly cleaned.
> 
> Couple of notes on the AAA:
> -Doesn't seem to provide enough air, but is atomizing the paint better then using straight airless
> -Air ports on spray cap are to small!
> -doesn't allow adaptation to standard wand. ( found this out last Wed. Bummer)
> -Hose doesn't bother me. Used to using conventional
> -Heavy MoFo!
> 
> I like this machine, but is it really worth the $2,000+ cost?
> 
> Appreciate the feed back jack. Thanks!


Its very niche for us because we can produce the same finish with a Graco Tradeworks 150 easily so the FinishPro came in handy painting 80 casement style windows of various heights or box ceilings, built-ins, cabinets, fireplaces. 

It provides much more control in tighter spaces. The gun is nice to use but its high maintenance. It helps to have a plastic bucket around with some krud kutter and a tooth brush to periodically clean the tip assembly. 

No question the FinishPro offers flexibility but NEPS 2 hose set-up is the only way to make it productive to use. You are likely going to want to switch back n forth between regular airless spraying with a single hose and stock hose for AA.

When you look at the cost of a 395 and you add the cost of an HVLP, there you are. Although, the AAA moves paint much nicer than an HVLP.


----------



## CApainter

So far, I have only sprayed Sher Cryl out of it. seems to be working well to create a fine finish. But as Vermont painter suggested it doesn't improve production for larger jobs.


----------



## vermontpainter

CApainter said:


> ......


I bought this machine last year as a cabinet finishing rig. We have also used it in the shop prefinishing exterior packages. Its good in production, and will pay its way, but until you do a cabinet job with it, you arent really seeing its full potential. We have done sick dye stain and omu cabinetry with it, as well as paint grade cabinetry. That is where it shines. Anyone who buys it expecting that aaa will be a production boost is destined for disappointment. Its an hvlp gun on steroids. Thats the first clue. You really have to spend alot of months running this rig in a bunch of different scenarios to fully appreciate it. Otherwise, it just seems like a 395 with a compressor and a fine gun. No big deal. Run it cabinet style. Not just like one mantel or builtin. Do some volume of fine finish with it. Its good. I did a massive time sensitive stain grade cherry job with it last fall. Could not have hit the schedule and quality expectation without it.


----------



## CApainter

.. Also, I did add another 50 ' of hose and that has made it very convenient.


----------



## CApainter

vermontpainter said:


> I bought this machine last year as a cabinet finishing rig. We have also used it in the shop prefinishing exterior packages. Its good in production, and will pay its way, but until you do a cabinet job with it, you arent really seeing its full potential. We have done sick dye stain and omu cabinetry with it, as well as paint grade cabinetry. That is where it shines. *Anyone who buys it expecting that aaa will be a production boost is destined for disappointment.* Its an hvlp gun on steroids. Thats the first clue. You really have to spend alot of months running this rig in a bunch of different scenarios to fully appreciate it. Otherwise, it just seems like a 395 with a compressor and a fine gun. No big deal. Run it cabinet style. Not just like one mantel or builtin. Do some volume of fine finish with it. Its good. I did a massive time sensitive stain grade cherry job with it last fall. Could not have hit the schedule and quality expectation without it.


Just checking to see That i had read that correctly. Thanks again VP


----------



## vermontpainter

CApainter said:


> Just checking to see That i had read that correctly. Thanks again VP


Thats correct. It is more of a fine finish machine to me - hlvp with volume - than a flat out production rig. Its for fine finishes, and that is why I suggest that when folks get into aaa, they keep an open mind for a whole lot of months and plug it into a variety of fine finish situations before pigenon holing it as not as good as their airless. I know guys who will get their sw rep to demo one out for one job, for like 2 days, use it in one or two situations and think they have it covered. It really takes time to appreciate the ways that this machine works, and for me it falls into the fine finish category completely. 

The cabinets I referred to from last year will be coming out in Tauntons any month now. Seriously, if I'd had to do this job with an airless or hvlp in the shop, it would have sucked.


----------



## straight_lines

From what I have seen with these AAA machines by graco and titan they don't excel with heavy acrylics.I was able to test both about six months ago for a few weeks. 

Alec with Rcon has been producing some amazing results doing doing cabinet grade stuff in lacquer, but the only advantage to a traditional is the transfer efficiency there. A big deal when site finishing in an occupied home. 

If I were to buy a dedicated rig for solvents I think I would build my own using a regulator and my portable makita compressor. I haven't had to the need thus far, and am really trying to get away from using solvents at all. 

Still waiting for Scooter's review on the Frenchy H20 unit. :whistling2:


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## vermontpainter

straight_lines said:


> From what I have seen with these AAA machines by graco and titan they don't excel with heavy acrylics.I was able to test both about six months ago for a few weeks.
> 
> Alec with Rcon has been producing some amazing results doing doing cabinet grade stuff in lacquer, but the only advantage to a traditional is the transfer efficiency there. A big deal when site finishing in an occupied home.
> 
> If I were to buy a dedicated rig for solvents I think I would build my own using a regulator and my portable makita compressor. I haven't had to the need thus far, and am really trying to get away from using solvents at all.
> 
> Still waiting for Scooter's review on the Frenchy H20 unit. :whistling2:


Tommy

We have done boatloads of latex primer, waterborne interior paint and exterior duration with the finish pro. Its one of the things we do most with it. 

Yes, the review you speak of will be out before the end of the year. Thats something we dont speak much of. There have been a few things that have come along this year that have really made us think. This would be one.


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## CApainter

I've been spraying the Sher Cryl (38%SBV) without thinning and have had no problem spraying at around 1200 psi with the compressor maxed out at 35 psi (actually around 20+psi wide open through a 315 tip). The transfer efficiency is great along with better control on angular surfaces.


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## vermontpainter

CApainter said:


> I've been spraying the Sher Cryl (38%SBV) without thinning and have had no problem spraying at around 1200 psi with the compressor maxed out at 35 psi (actually around 20+psi wide open through a 315 tip). The transfer efficiency is great along with better control on angular surfaces.


What that translates to in my shop is that if we have 16 carcasses and 60 parts and pieces in there all trying to kick off in the same batch, a foggy room full of airless overspray is just awful.


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## straight_lines

That must be nice for you not having a spray room. Like I said the plus I see is site finishing in occupied. I do 75% repaints/remodels, so its a big concern of mine.


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## CApainter

I'm still trying to dial it in but I'm using it on an exterior application and the wind and sun are unforgiving. I'd be better of not trying to be too concerned about production and really focus on the quality finish this machine can provide.


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## DeanV

Does paint clog the cap like WB clears?


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## CApainter

deanv said:


> does paint clog the cap like wb clears?


yes!


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## vermontpainter

DeanV said:


> Does paint clog the cap like WB clears?


Only if you let it.


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## CApainter

I have a bucket of water with me with a stainless wire tooth brush and clean frequently between spraying. That's why I wish this unit had an air cap similar to a conventional. I have to use welder's cleaning wires to clean out the small air holes in the cap at the end of the day.


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## straight_lines

vermontpainter said:


> Only if you let it.


Please blog about that and explain how you accomplish spraying a coating like duration and prevent this. It was the number one drawback I had when working with heavy acrylics. It seemed like I spent more time working on the damn machine than I did applying.


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## CApainter

I did spray some super spec through it last Friday, without the air, and I didn't have the clogging problem. I did need a wand though which I didn't have for the AAA gun. That sucked.


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## CApainter

straight_lines said:


> Please blog about that and explain how you accomplish spraying a coating like duration and prevent this.


I would say he has the right FF tip with the pressures balanced just right.


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## vermontpainter

straight_lines said:


> Please blog about that and explain how you accomplish spraying a coating like duration and prevent this.


Will do. We use it almost exclusively in the shop, which is a pretty controlled climate compared to what CaP is doing outside with it, but I would think many of the same principles apply. There are things we are just in the habit of doing to keep the fp happy. Just like we have a whole other set of things we do for the ProShot.


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## DeanV

That is the thing that keeps me from adding another one. I have had problems with clear buildup at times after only 2 cabinet doors with some products. Talk about killing efficiency.


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## straight_lines

vermontpainter said:


> Will do. We use it almost exclusively in the shop, which is a pretty controlled climate compared to what CaP is doing outside with it, but I would think many of the same principles apply. There are things we are just in the habit of doing to keep the fp happy. Just like we have a whole other set of things we do for the ProShot.


See that is kinda where I am at as well. I have a decent spray booth, and used to do a ton of cabinet work. When NC dropped so did that part of the business, and I was still using a Sata HVLP for shop work. I honest to God prefer it over any applicator I have for many reasons despite to lacking transfer efficiency to an AAA.

Solvent or WB a quick tip swap and we were good, but a bucket of hot water and a wire brush was standard for spraying any significant amount of WB.

Site finishing makes that even more challenging, and I didn't spend enough time to get a good system set up to keep a clean tip.


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## NEPS.US

I bought a few extra air cap assemblies and swap them as needed. $140 a pop.


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## DeanV

My extra Graco cap was $50 I think???


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## vermontpainter

Given the technology of the 395, it is possible to overthink it. Honestly, it really doesnt matter what product, what fluid or air pressure, or tip. We have never had the air clog problem, even last winter when we sprayed thousands of lf with duration ext in the shop with heat, fans, dry air etc. 

The g40 has a feature or two that are frequently overlooked and critical to optimum performance. 

I think part of the deal is that most of us come from an airless background where the machines are like bulldozers. Its either clogged or its not. You reverse the tip and blow it out and your good until the next clog, which may not happen for the rest of the day. 

Some of the newer, non airless and/or non conventional spray technologies are a two edged sword. You have to give the sprayer a little more thought in order to get the best out of it. It requires different habits for different tools. 

One thing that would be nice is if manufacturers said: "Oh hey, when you are using this tool, make sure you do xyz..." But, they don't use their stuff the way we do. And that just doesnt market well. I love speaking with the engineers who design the tools I use. Fascinating. I learn alot about how things are designed and what the intentions for use were. Even if it doesnt fit the way we use it, at least we know what the tool wants and can move toward accomodating it.


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## CApainter

vermontpainter said:


> Given the technology of the 395, it is possible to overthink it. Honestly, it really doesnt matter what product, what fluid or air pressure, or tip. We have never had the air clog problem, even last winter when we sprayed thousands of lf with duration ext in the shop with heat, fans, dry air etc.
> 
> The g40 has a feature or two that are frequently overlooked and critical to optimum performance.
> 
> I think part of the deal is that most of us come from an airless background where the machines are like bulldozers. Its either clogged or its not. You reverse the tip and blow it out and your good until the next clog, which may not happen for the rest of the day.
> 
> Some of the newer, non airless and/or non conventional spray technologies are a two edged sword. You have to give the sprayer a little more thought in order to get the best out of it. It requires different habits for different tools.
> 
> One thing that would be nice is if manufacturers said: "Oh hey, when you are using this tool, make sure you do xyz..." But, they don't use their stuff the way we do. And that just doesnt market well. I love speaking with the engineers who design the tools I use. Fascinating. I learn alot about how things are designed and what the intentions for use were. Even if it doesnt fit the way we use it, at least we know what the tool wants and can move toward accomodating it.


I was using the term "clogging" for what should have been described as "build up" Actually, there has been absolutely no clogging issues.

As you have suggested VP, I will continue to experiment, and tweak this unit until I am comfortable using it in any environment I choose. I like this machine!


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## vermontpainter

CApainter said:


> I was using the term "clogging" for what should have been described as "build up" Actually, there has been absolutely no clogging issues.
> 
> As you have suggested VP, I will continue to experiment, and tweak this unit until I am comfortable using it in any environment I choose. I like this machine!


I know what you mean. Its not internal clogging. Its external accumulation around the air orifices. It can cake up. The gun has a couple of features that Graco doesnt really promote well in their marketing. Hopefully, there will be some time in the next day or two to fool around with it and get a visual out to help people who are having this issue. It can definitely detract from the aaa experience. Already getting some ideas of how I might be able to demonstrate what the g40 has going for it that is different from the guns most of us grew up on.


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## Rcon

paintpro08 said:


> Hi, found this new video from the Finishpro on the web:
> 
> YouTube - Graco air assisted loading Erecta Rack


Just saw this for the first time. 

Regarding this and a few other posts in this thread - there's no need to have such high air and psi to make this thing work, in fact it kinda defeats the purpose. 

I run mine at around 750 to 850 psi depending on the viscosity of the material, and rarely need more than 10 pounds air. I'll crank it up to 20-25 pounds at the machine then barely turn it on at the gun. You only need just enough to make the tails disappear. That's the only way you benefit from low overspray and reduce material usage. If your air or fluid pressure is too high you're just wasting material to the air and may as well be using a normal airless. 

PS - I know this was shot a long time ago VP you've probably already worked out the kinks just figured i'd share my experience with it. 

Also - depending on what you're shooting, you might want to look into the G15 conversion kit. It gets rid of that annoying spitting/tip housing build-up issue.


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## Rcon

straight_lines said:


> From what I have seen with these AAA machines by graco and titan they don't excel with heavy acrylics.I was able to test both about six months ago for a few weeks.
> 
> Alec with Rcon has been producing some amazing results doing doing cabinet grade stuff in lacquer, but the only advantage to a traditional is the transfer efficiency there. A big deal when site finishing in an occupied home.
> 
> If I were to buy a dedicated rig for solvents I think I would build my own using a regulator and my portable makita compressor. I haven't had to the need thus far, and am really trying to get away from using solvents at all.
> 
> Still waiting for Scooter's review on the Frenchy H20 unit. :whistling2:


Thanks Tommy - but the Graco AAA will work just fine with heavy acrylics. Even though it was still a lacquer based product that was shot, a 54% solids (unreduced) primer went through my machine and came out perfectly smooth with little overspray - still using low fluid pressure (I think I dialed it to about 840 or so) and air between 10 and 15 pounds. I'd post pics of the finish I did but left the camera on the jobsite today - i'll follow up with some tomorrow.

It works, you just have to tinker with it a bit until you get used to it. 

On another note - was at a cabinet shop yesterday speaking with their finisher who is testing out a kremlin airmix - apparenly it's shooting high solids material quite nicely for him!


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## vermontpainter

Yes, Airmix is quite a whole other type of delicacy.


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## DeanV

The Graco rep said the finish pro was actually better and designed for thicker materials. With thin stuff, the low airless setting atomize it anyway and the air is not doing much but with the heavier stuff you are using both aspects of the machine to atomize more.


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## vermontpainter

That's my understanding as well, Dean, and that has been my experience. Dye stain is as close to water consistency as you can get, and ultramax is like milk. We've done alot of both, and if I go much below 1000 fluid and 25 air, I feel like I'm back to Hvlp production. That's why I think of it as Hvlp gun with some nut behind it. In other words, yes you can dial it down get super fine, but you can also dial up for more than Hvlp production and still be crazy clean. There's a sweet spot in each product where you can lay it heavy and it just lays down. Not overatomized, just good and wet.


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## straight_lines

So the next question is for you guys that have put a ton of material through your machines how are they holding up?


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## vermontpainter

straight_lines said:


> So the next question is for you guys that have put a ton of material through your machines how are they holding up?


Ours is mint. Mostly because it is 90% shop based. No issues with it, but we maintain neurotically. The pump is just like any other pump, the compressor requires just about nothing. The G40 is where most time is spent. Its been about a year with ours now, and I've been happy with it because we have used it more for straight up production work, but also been able to massage super fine finishes out of it for cabinets and doors, etc.


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## straight_lines

vermontpainter said:


> Ours is mint. Mostly because it is 90% shop based. No issues with it, but we maintain neurotically. The pump is just like any other pump, the compressor requires just about nothing. The G40 is where most time is spent. Its been about a year with ours now, and I've been happy with it because we have used it more for straight up production work, but also been able to massage super fine finishes out of it for cabinets and doors, etc.


That is good to hear, I have seen a few in the shop but that could be said for most any machine. Take care of it and it will make you money. Good not to see any endemic issues.


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## vermontpainter

straight_lines said:


> That is good to hear, I have seen a few in the shop but that could be said for most any machine. Take care of it and it will make you money. Good not to see any endemic issues.


Thats why its bears repeating that from a component standpoint, the gun is really what is different about this system. Thats where alot of our attention has gone. We know the history of those pumps, they are pretty bulletproof. A compressor is ultimately a compressor. But the controls are very fine and microadjustable, so you can get the air/fluid mix you need, if you know the gun. It is the merging of the 3 (pump, compressor, gun) that make it a unique system. We never run it in airless mode. 

AAA as a whole is a misunderstood technology so far. Guys email me and ask if they can put a g40 on a 395 and get the same result. Or if they can put a compressor and a xcite gun on their 440. 

CaP may be right, that the issue of material build up at the air orifices is a function of guys not finding the right mix. It seems that lack of air pressure could keep the orifices from self cleaning as they are designed to. That and trigger technique.


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## DeanV

I think that thin wb clears build up more than thick ones, but I cannot say for certain. 

For the compressor, have you found an air filter that needs periodic replacing or cleaning? On our turbines, the filters need frequent maintenance and it seems that the 395ff would as well.


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## JoseyWales

vermontpainter said:


> Yes, Airmix is quite a whole other type of delicacy.


Do you own the biggest airmix pump?..What pump gives you the best finish for acrylics?


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## vermontpainter

JoseyWales said:


> Do you own the biggest airmix pump?..What pump gives you the best finish for acrylics?


We have the 10.14. I can't think of a scenario where I'd need bigger.


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## vermontpainter

DeanV said:


> I think that thin wb clears build up more than thick ones, but I cannot say for certain.
> 
> For the compressor, have you found an air filter that needs periodic replacing or cleaning? On our turbines, the filters need frequent maintenance and it seems that the 395ff would as well.


I agree, thinner could build up more because it dries faster. We haven't had to replace filters, mostly because we drape the machine whe in use.


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## Crown Restoration

I'm looking at buying a 395 AA tomorrow. My supplier can get it to me for $1930. We do lots of cabinet reapaints and interior trim. 

Is this a good idea for occupied homes?


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## Softy

NEPS.US said:


> I liked it so much I had to do it again.


Attached Thumbnails 

The blues really stand out. Definitely, by far this is the prettiest GracoFP I've seen.


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## Fpatino07

Capainter 

Are you still using Titan Multi Finish?.


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## daArch

Fpatino07 said:


> Capainter
> 
> Are you still using Titan Multi Finish?.


You think CApainter has a 4 year memory ???

You're not from around here, are ya ? :whistling2:


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## CApainter

Fpatino07 said:


> Capainter
> 
> Are you still using Titan Multi Finish?.


You must be referring to Softy (post 197). I have the Graco 395 AAA finish Pro. I was using it frequently, but found the 395 ultra stand to work as well if not better in its mobility. As a matter of fact, I just got done spraying PPG PTP on a large supply air duct on top of a roof with the 395 Ultra stand. 

It was foggy this morning. Now, it feel like 80 degrees up there. I was also in a tyvek and am sweating like Marco Rubio in a primary election.

It'll be a beautiful day for the Blue Angels here on this weekend's Fleet Week. I've been watching them practice the last couple of days . Awesome!


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## chrisn

CApainter said:


> You must be referring to Softy (post 197). I have the Graco 395 AAA finish Pro. I was using it frequently, but found the 395 ultra stand to work as well if not better in its mobility. As a matter of fact, I just got done spraying PPG PTP on a large supply air duct on top of a roof with the 395 Ultra stand.
> 
> It was foggy this morning. Now, it feel like 80 degrees up there. I was also in a tyvek and am sweating like Marco Rubio in a primary election.
> 
> It'll be a beautiful day for the Blue Angels here on this weekend's Fleet Week. I've been watching them practice the last couple of days . Awesome![/QUOTE]
> 
> that they are:yes:


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