# Alkyd question



## iPaint (Nov 30, 2007)

I just painted a textured ceiling today, and with the cutting it was almost impossible not to get the flat alkyd onto the top half inch or so of wall. (I had to dab it on - couldn't just brush it due to the "popcorn" bits in the way.)

Since it's been so long since I've painted a previously unpainted textured ceiling, I'm a little fuzzy on one detail: when I go to paint the wall with latex, do I need to prime whatever alkyd ended up on the wall, or is it okay just to lightly sand it? In other words, can I still get proper adhesion without having to prime it?


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## cole191919 (Jan 10, 2008)

I recently did a stipple ceiling and had no choice but to get some on the walls due to the configuration of the kitchen. You can put latex over the oil that got on the walls, but make sure you sand it down, and use a good 100% acrylic paint. I like to wipe off as much as I can while the alkyd paint is still wet on the walls, but for spots that dry, just sand it down really good.


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## Bibleman (Feb 6, 2008)

Of course if you have the time it's always helpful to do a simple test. Try the worst case scenario and cut a little wall paint over the primer, let dry overnight and see if you can scratch it off with your fingernail. I've definitely run into adhesion problems over gloss oil, but flat may be a different story.


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## timhag (Sep 30, 2007)

cole191919 said:


> I recently did a stipple ceiling and had no choice but to get some on the walls due to the configuration of the kitchen. .


This is one of those times when taping becomes necessary.


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## cole191919 (Jan 10, 2008)

I taped the heck out of it, and because I was painting the walls in the kitchen as well, it wasn't really that huge of a deal if I got a little bit on the walls. 

Key word "some"


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## Flhden (Jan 20, 2008)

If you used an oil flat on the ceilings adhesion with latex on the walls will be no problem. We still prime all walls with oil base primer and topcoat with latex and never have a problem. BTW what exactly did you use on the ceiling? Oil flat is tough to find anymore. SW still sells it, but I do not see it in too many other stores.


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## iPaint (Nov 30, 2007)

Flhden said:


> If you used an oil flat on the ceilings adhesion with latex on the walls will be no problem. We still prime all walls with oil base primer and topcoat with latex and never have a problem. BTW what exactly did you use on the ceiling? Oil flat is tough to find anymore. SW still sells it, but I do not see it in too many other stores.


I took Bibleman's advice and put some latex over the alkyd I got on the walls. Next day, however, only moderate pressure with my fingernail resulted in some of the latex coming off. So I went around the entire area and primed the alkyd with latex primer/sealer.

The lesson I learned: Next time I paint a non-painted textured ceiling with alkyd, I'm taping the wall where it meets the ceiling so I don't have to go through all the priming once again! And I'll use my Whizz fabric mini-roller (sausage roller, whatever you want to call it) to do the cutting, which will mean a huge reduction in time versus cutting with a brush, because the end of the roller will contact the tape, not the wall.

Anyhow, as I mentioned before, I used flat alkyd on the ceiling. I bought it from an independent paint dealer in our area (sort of a local legend to us painters!) who has all kinds of paint at his disposal.


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## GMack (Jan 18, 2008)

Flhden said:


> If you used an oil flat on the ceilings adhesion with latex on the walls will be no problem. We still prime all walls with oil base primer and topcoat with latex and never have a problem. BTW what exactly did you use on the ceiling? Oil flat is tough to find anymore. SW still sells it, but I do not see it in too many other stores.


 
The last time I used an Alkyd flat was about2 years ago. It was a Pratt and Lambert product which I had to order in advance in quarts only. I think we ordered 28 quarts!

Some customers insist on certain things and there isn't much you can say to change their minds.

Mack


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## DW Custom Painting (Feb 17, 2008)

iPaint said:


> I just painted a textured ceiling today, and with the cutting it was almost impossible not to get the flat alkyd onto the top half inch or so of wall. (I had to dab it on - couldn't just brush it due to the "popcorn" bits in the way.)
> 
> Since it's been so long since I've painted a previously unpainted textured ceiling, I'm a little fuzzy on one detail: when I go to paint the wall with latex, do I need to prime whatever alkyd ended up on the wall, or is it okay just to lightly sand it? In other words, can I still get proper adhesion without having to prime it?


Personally I would have just slapped it all over the wall since the walls are being painted anyway. I would just sand the bit that got on the wall very well. Nobody will be close enough to scratch it off, if loose at all. Properly prepared oil base can be gone over w latex, especially up by the ceiling.

DW


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## mjkpainting (Feb 12, 2008)

*2 Questions/ Popcorn and painting latex over oil*

This thread was very imformative and I learned quite a bit b/c I am doing popcorn next weekend. I am also painting latex over oil based gloss doors. 

I have two questions?


Is there a paint other than the calcimine recoater by BM for the ceilings?

Question 2: is the general rule of thumb on latex v/s oil???

You should paint latex over oil without priming or you shouldn't paint oil over latex without priming


I have heard if you scratch it up (sand) you can do either but have never gotten a straight answer


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## DW Custom Painting (Feb 17, 2008)

You *need* to prime before putting latex over oil *especially *HIGH GLOSS!! You can sand the oil and put the latex over it, however you better sand the HE#* out of every square inch. In which case priming is usually quicker. I recommend Zinnsers Bulls eye primer, dries w/ a gloss and doesn't suck the sheen out of the finish coat. Finish coat BM Aqua glo / Semi gloss


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## Flhden (Jan 20, 2008)

Calcimine recoater is the exact same product as Sani-Flat use to be. To be able to sell an oil flat it must either be a specific product designed for a special use or incur a tax because it does not meet voc regulations. Applying latex over oil flat should not be a problem. Semi or full gloss latex might be different. If in doubt apply a piece of tape over questionable area and rip off quickly to test for adhesion. If it pulls off previous coats of paint then the problem is not with the last coat but the previous coats anyway.


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## CobraCDN (Jan 8, 2008)

This is why we spray all ceilings that need re coating. If the Texture is down the wall a a bit, scrape it off 1st, I usually go around with a 5-in-1 scraper and clean up the edges. Poly and tape the walls off, cover the floor and re spray the ceiling with an airless. Pull the tape and you should be left with a good cutin line at the top of the walls.

I know some kitchens can be a pain getting over the cupboards, we always use a swivel on the end of our gun extensions to make it easier to get a nice shot at those hard to get places.
Cheers


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## mjkpainting (Feb 12, 2008)

*Another Pppcorn questions???????*

O.k- Another popcorn question- I get a ton of people wanting their popcorn cielings patched and painted.

Question
Have any of you ever had trouble (i.e the the popcorn ceiling start coming down) when spraying a latex flat ceiling paint on a popcorn ceiling????


I was going to:
scrape it
oil prime the area
patch the damaged area and "attempt" to match the popcorn texture
shoot it with latex flat


I really don't want to use the calcimine oil and roll it and I don't want to spray oil b/c I hate cleaning the sprayer after using oil.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

iPaint said:


> I took Bibleman's advice and put some latex over the alkyd I got on the walls. Next day, however, only moderate pressure with my fingernail resulted in some of the latex coming off. So I went around the entire area and primed the alkyd with latex primer/sealer.
> 
> The lesson I learned: Next time I paint a non-painted textured ceiling with alkyd, I'm taping the wall where it meets the ceiling so I don't have to go through all the priming once again! And I'll use my Whizz fabric mini-roller (sausage roller, whatever you want to call it) to do the cutting, which will mean a huge reduction in time versus cutting with a brush, because the end of the roller will contact the tape, not the wall.
> 
> Anyhow, as I mentioned before, I used flat alkyd on the ceiling. I bought it from an independent paint dealer in our area (sort of a local legend to us painters!) who has all kinds of paint at his disposal.


iPaint, 

One question & one point.

You say the latex did not pass the fingernail test.

Was it 100% acrylic?

Waterbornes take more than one day to cure and exhibit full adhesion.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Hell,I don't know of any paint that will dry that hard in a day!( draw tite,maybe):blink:


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

Krikes - when I paint trim with alkyd impervo and slop it on adjacent walls - I've never worried about the latex wall paint not sticking to those areas cut around door casements and windows. It's one thing to slop latex paint on a door that has a 20 yr. old high gloss oil finish - but this is carrying out concern way too far. Heck Muralo waterbourne will stick to all oil trim I have come across with just a sanding. Only old school latexes don't stick well to previous oil coatings without a primer. Not to mention - what about all those homes that were covered with oil paint for the most part well into the 70's - and then transitioned over to latex? It stuck fine - well too good, as it would rip off the old oil paint down to the wood sometimes.


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## CobraCDN (Jan 8, 2008)

Yes indeed.. same here, wear and tear are minimal up next to the ceiling and right against the trim, I've never had a prob either.

Flat alkyds are in good supply here (Cloverdale Paint Inc)

Cheers


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