# SW pigmented pre-cat lacquer help



## Hoye0017 (Mar 12, 2021)

Hi all, I posted this on a sister forum and I hope to find additional help here. Apologies to anyone in both forums. Hope it doesn’t feel like spam.

quick background: I’m a medium-skilled sprayer in hvlp and airless. My history is Nearly exclusively waterborne products, but for many reasons, I’m pushed into pre-cat lacquer for 2 kitchen island projects (new wood). This isn’t an emergency, but I am trying to get up to speed quickly.
Copying my recent post below:


So I sprayed some test pieces and the results aren’t quite what I expected. I’ll put the spraying details at the bottom if you need more info.

1. The sheen is a lot higher than I expected. It’s “dull rubbed” so I expected satin (20-30), but I’d say it’s more like semi-gloss (40-50)

Maybe Due to darker color with more tint? Should it flatten out with time? Should I expect to be doing fine grit sanding after the final coat?


2. I’m seeing a lot more Grain than expected from “hi-build”. I didn’t sand before the first coat (factory sanded s4s maple). I sanded with 220 after the sealing coat, then 2 full coats with no sanding. I also sprayed a piece that had a light coat of BIN and 220 sanding before the sealing coat. Both had considerable grain showing. Any similar experiences or do I just need to sand more?


Spraying details:
Sanding: detailed in #2 above
Weather: 50F and sunny. Sprayed and dried in direct sunlight (not specifically intentional)
Thinning: 10% lacquer thinner by weight
Equipment: Fuji 4 stage turbine, no psi adjustment, t75 gun with 1.3 tip, 1.5 turns of material volume knob.

It sprayed a pretty fine mist with a little initial orange peel, but laid out quickly. Drying was slower due to cool temps. Final coat is smooth other than the grain mentioned above. 

Any input welcome.


----------



## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

I recommend sanding the bare wood before primer. Also, alot of cabinet guys are doing 2 or even 3 coats of primer with sanding in between before top coats.. It should look and feel pretty dang smooth before you even start your top coats.. Not sure whats up with your sheen levels. Did you stir your product? 👀


----------



## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

Try using vinyl sealer under the pre-cat. When sealing with lacquer, subsequent coats have a tendency dissolve previous coats causing each subsequent coat to shrink back into the pores. Vinyl sealer provides better resistance to redissolving under top coats, allowing for better build at pores when top coating. You could also bump up the tip to 1.4 mm which is the Binks equivalent stated on the pds. The vinyl sealer will also provide better moisture resistance.


----------



## Hoye0017 (Mar 12, 2021)

Thanks guys, 
1. if I go the traditional primer route, i’m inclined toward using BIN. Seems like a few people have had good luck with BIN under lacquer. Any objections?

2. is GF sanding sealer the same as vinyl sealer? I have some of that on hand, but I doubt that’s what I’m looking for because it’s water based. I’m guessing I would need the SW pre-cat vinyl sealer or the Mohawk/behlens product. 

3. looking back, I might have actually skipped stirring. I think I was so excited and focused on all the new things, I forgot the basics. 
I’m going to try a few new test pieces today. 
Thanks again.


----------



## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Hoye0017 said:


> Thanks guys,
> 1. if I go the traditional primer route, i’m inclined toward using BIN. Seems like a few people have had good luck with BIN under lacquer. Any objections?
> 
> 2. is GF sanding sealer the same as vinyl sealer? I have some of that on hand, but I doubt that’s what I’m looking for because it’s water based. I’m guessing I would need the SW pre-cat vinyl sealer or the Mohawk/behlens product.
> ...


Just use vinyl sealer with lacquer. no reason in most cases to use shellac or mix in a water base product like GF sealer. stick to a solvent base system. When you go the DIY route you lose product support from the manufacturers.

And yes sheen issue sounds like you forgot to stir all the flattening agent will be at the bottom of the can


----------



## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

The higher sheen could be due to the lacquer thinner evaporating too slowly being the air temp was 50 degrees. In colder temps you might want to try a faster evaporating lacquer thinner which should result in a lesser sheen.

I’d stick with the vinyl sealer recommended on the SW PDS.

Edit: a faster evaporating thinner might also solve the build issues with the pores/grain.


----------



## Hoye0017 (Mar 12, 2021)

Sheen definitely improved now that I didn’t forget to stir.

The piece with 1 coat of vinyl sealer had marginally better grain fill than the piece I just sanded to 220. I think I’ll try 2 coats of vinyl sealer next time.

question: does the precat vinyl sealer “cross link” with the lacquer? They both use lacquer thinner for thinning and cleanup, so it seems reasonable to assume the vinyl sealer will soften when the lacquer is applied.


----------



## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

Hoye0017 said:


> Sheen definitely improved now that I didn’t forget to stir.
> 
> The piece with 1 coat of vinyl sealer had marginally better grain fill than the piece I just sanded to 220. I think I’ll try 2 coats of vinyl sealer next time.
> 
> question: does the precat vinyl sealer “cross link” with the lacquer? They both use lacquer thinner for thinning and cleanup, so it seems reasonable to assume the vinyl sealer will soften when the lacquer is applied.


I “think” the acid catalyzed amino alkyd resins in both the sealer and pre-cat crosslink with each other.


----------



## Hoye0017 (Mar 12, 2021)

Just wanted to follow up on this. Mission accomplished. Thank you all for your input. I’ll post finished pics when the island is installed in a couple days. I thought I’d share what I learned.

1. Vinyl sealer- helped, but mostly in that it dried faster and sanded better after an hour than the lacquer itself.

2. Thinning- I found it best to thin 20% by weight, using a 1.3mm tip for my Fuji 4 stage hvlp. If it weren’t for the cleanup hassle, I would have used my airless and a 210 or 310 tip. 

3. Sheen- requires patience. The sheen will flatten out and even out considerably after 6-12 hours. I suspect it would flatten faster in warmer weather (mid 50’s all week).

4. Sanding- I was really hopeful that lacquer was going to be ready for sanding between coats really quickly, but it would “ball up” if I didn’t wait for the sheen to fully flatten first. Disappointed here. 

5. Grain filling- In the end, the result was good, but not what I was hoping for, mostly disappointed in how many coats and how much sanding/waiting was required to get there. Sherwood waterborne topcoat does a better job IMO. 

Overall, I didn’t love using this pre cat lacquer like I hoped I would. It’s not worth the fumes and dangers. I just got setup with a distributor that does Milesi, Renner, and Centurion. I’m going to try one of the 2k waterborne systems for my next cabinet job.


----------

