# Journeyman Painter?



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Got a call from a guy, hes looking for work and says hes a "Journeyman Painter". I've had other calls like this. Is there a working definition of this title? Does it mean anything, especially if its self-proclaimed? I figured it means he likes to listen to Journey when he paints, could that be what he means?


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

Here is one definition..Basically he should be able to run the job from start to finish with minimal supervision.


CLASS SPECIFICATION 



CLASS TITLE: JOURNEYMAN PAINTER 
CLASS CODE: Y057 

LAST REVISION DATE: 

CLASS SUMMARY
The Journeyman Painter works under general supervision and is responsible 
for the preparation and painting of buildings, furniture, and equipment. 
This position is governed by established trade practices and agency/insti- 
tution policy.

EXAMPLES OF WORK
1. Receives work orders from supervisor to perform a variety of painting 
assignments. 

2. Prepares walls, woodwork, ceilings, doors, furniture, and equipment 
for painting and refinishing. 

3. Removes old paint, stains, and varnish as required using paint 
removers, scrapers, wire brushes, or sand blaster. 

4. Smoothes surface for refinish using sand paper and/or steel wool. 

5. Selects proper paint for the finish surface by matching types and 
colors of paint. 

6. Mixes paints using required portion of pigments, oils, and thinning 
and drying substances. 

7. Paints area using brushes, paint rollers, and/or spray guns. 

8. Strips, stains, and revarnishes tables, doors, and cabinets. 

9. Cleans equipment and maintains supplies. 

10. Performs related responsibilities as required or assigned. 

WORKING RELATIONSHIPS
The Journeyman Painter has frequent contact with co-workers and agency/ 
institution personnel.

SPECIAL JOB DIMENSIONS
Working from a ladder or scaffold is frequently required. On call duty may 
be required.

KNOWLEDGES, ABILITIES, AND SKILLS
Knowledge of skilled procedures, methods and practices of the painting 
trade. 
Knowledge of the safety precautions used in the painting trade. 
Knowledge of different paints, solvents and their practical uses. 
Ability to work on ladders and scaffolds. 
Ability to match and mix paints. 
Ability to lead the work activities of unskilled labor in painting 
assignments. 
Skill in the use, operation and care of painting equipment. 

MINIMUM QUALIFICATIONS
Completion of sufficient education or training to read and write; plus five 
years of progressively more responsible experience in the painting trade. 

Other job related education and/or experience may be substituted for all or 
part of these basic requirements upon approval of the Qualifications Review 
Committee.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Ya its retarded. You can thank are wonderful Union. They have done more harm than good to the trades in the name of "worker rights". They make unskilled people feel like they have skills. And when they lose their union jobs, they feel/are inadequate. It really sad. I know a few guys that were your basic grunts. Now they are laid off. The only thing they know how to do is use a shovel and put up a umbrella.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

aaron61 said:


> Here is one definition..Basically he should be able to run the job from start to finish with minimal supervision.
> 
> 
> CLASS SPECIFICATION
> ...


but i mean, he's claiming this title, I doubt he could produce any documents verifying it. And if hes so qualified, why is he looking for work? Thats what I wonder sometimes.


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## summertime14 (May 4, 2009)

basically he is a qualified painter(insert your own definition here). Some journeyman carry a card issued by their union. It means they have a certain skillset. It mostly applies to unions. But at least you know he has at least painted in the past.

My dad was a journeyman painter a long time ago. That is now he got into the business. He knows more about painting than just about anyone I know. But I have heard some crazy stories about some pretty rotten workers that were also called journeymen. Maybe twenty years ago it would have carried more weight to call yourself one.


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## Roadog (Apr 18, 2007)

I was union for a while. Got my journeyman card. You get it after your apprenticeship......used to be 3 years or so many hours??? 6000 I think. Union halls vary around the country. Some require you as an apprentice to learn wood graining, marbling, gilding etc....some dont. I have worked with 25 year union guys that werent worth sheeet. I've worked with non union 25 years in business and they werent either! Have worked with guys and gals that been painting a few years who were awesome. It all depends on the individual.
But have found that in this economy, shops laying off, friends that been in business for 25 plus years that used to be booked out for 6-8 months are now booked out a month and the guys that are layed off...No one is hiring! I think the other issue is most union journeyman make about $30 an hour or did. Seems like in New England most companies I see hiring want you to have 5 or more years experience and theyll give $8-12?? WTF? $8 an hour was 1984. Saw one company offering $12 an hour, needed 5 years, ins. and was going to 1099 your arse.??? And probably cry cause they cant keep anyone.
I think the worst enemy of our trade is some of our trade.


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

The THANKS above was for this line:


Roadog said:


> I think the worst enemy of our trade is some of our trade.


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

1978 called, they want their "journeyman painter" back.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

I miss TooledUp!


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## mikeds (Sep 18, 2009)

I have to say I agree with Roadog, someone claiming to be a journeyman (and they very well may be one) does not necessarily mean anything about their work ethic, beware of highly skilled lazy people...


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## Slingah (Sep 24, 2007)

TJ Paint said:


> Got a call from a guy, hes looking for work and says hes a "Journeyman Painter". I figured it means he likes to listen to Journey when he paints, could that be what he means?


:thumbup: good one!! how about a REOSpeedwagonman Painter :laughing::lol:


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

WisePainter said:


> 1978 called, they want their "journeyman painter" back.


lolz


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

Roadog said:


> I think the other issue is most union journeyman make about $30 an hour or did. Seems like in New England most companies I see hiring want you to have 5 or more years experience and theyll give $8-12?? WTF? $8 an hour was 1984. Saw one company offering $12 an hour, needed 5 years, ins. and was going to 1099 your arse.??? And probably cry cause they cant keep anyone.
> I think the worst enemy of our trade is some of our trade.


Painting in New England has become a joke, if you were to add all payroll liability of payroll taxes, workers comp, unemployment, & of course the salary of the worker - and then kept it to a total of $20/hr {i.e. worker gets $15} and maxed payroll liability to 40% of gross hourly sales - you would have to charge $50/hr or $5,000 for every 100 man-hours on a painting job. Big jobs quickly become $15,000-$25,000 at these rates. And nobody from the worker to the owner is making a ton of money either! 

And guys in New England are bidding homes for around $4,000-$6,000. That's why only the illegals are the only ones doing the work now, they are the only ones willing to work so cheap.


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## Roadog (Apr 18, 2007)

Personally, I dont market to the person or business that is looking for the lowest bidder. I also havnt charge $20 a man hour in about 10 years. And from what i've seen, most of those lowball bids were by fellow Americans. Maybe they got a cheap labor pool, but the owner was one of us!
Ive been staying busy this year in these times of gloom but when I saw the economy tanking I restructured my attack. I sub out to other companies doing higher end interior straight paint, sub to some decorative painting co. and actively pursue my own churches for restoration painting. And here lies (IMO) part of the wrong mindset most painters have. They do interiors or exteriors or both. Nothing wrong with that, but theres a lot out there. What do you have to fall back on....thats still in the trade. Which brings us back to the trained journeyman of yester year. They knew how to stencil and gold leaf and grain and fix some lathe and plaster and blah blah blah....I was just awarded another church job, start in a couple weeks, just finished one last week, and I wanted to use local painters from the area. But NO.....no one knows how to do this work......Anymore! My point being that if you stop learning in the trade, then stop complaining about no work. The trade is a lot bigger than just cutting and rolling.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

you never see any goldleaf around here. In a way its sad, that everything seems to turn into cookie cutter quality, woodwork, etc. But hardly anybody wants to pay for that expertise either. No demand makes people uninterested in pursueing such skill because they can't make the money back from the training cost, etc.


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## Roadog (Apr 18, 2007)

Yea, most leafing I do anymore is restoration, which is what I pursue with the churches. Next months job the leafing is all new stuff. Certain parts of the country you may only find it in state capitols and churches.


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