# Painting Oak Kitchen Cabinets



## Peakhomeservices (May 26, 2009)

Hi guys! I know I already got a lot of feedback from you but if anyone new has feedback I would love to hear it - even if it is the same feedback that I got before. So basically I spoke with my clients about repairing their oak kitchen cabinets that I sprayed already. The recommendation that about four of you told me was to repair the cabinets by Brushing and Rolling the problem areas where stains and grease are popping out. 

They are adamant about spraying them all over again. They were told by their friend who is a remodeling contractor in another state that "you can spray anything". But what all of you have told me is that Oak Cabinets are different and need to be brushed and rolled. They want me to e-mail your comments. She just screamed at me for 5 minutes straight - the most unhappy and troubled client I have ever had.... For those you who have already commented, thank you, I will be using your comments as a reference to the best way to make these cabinets look good!


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## Mark (Oct 1, 2008)

Normally my process for cabinets is sand, fill any holes, tsp clean to degrease the cabinets and oil prime if they have never been painted or shellac whichever you prefer. If you still have grease coming thru do a tsp clean. (tri sodium phosphate). You can get it at any hardware store. You simply just mix it with water and wash them down. You can also get a foam cigar roller which is a fine finish roller that will fill grain in oak cabs and also give you a fine finish sprayed look.


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## Peakhomeservices (May 26, 2009)

Mark said:


> Normally my process for cabinets is sand, fill any holes, tsp clean to degrease the cabinets and oil prime if they have never been painted or shellac whichever you prefer. If you still have grease coming thru do a tsp clean. (tri sodium phosphate). You can get it at any hardware store. You simply just mix it with water and wash them down. You can also get a foam cigar roller which is a fine finish roller that will fill grain in oak cabs and also give you a fine finish sprayed look.


Okay so I already sprayed them with one coat of primer and three light coats of paint. Do you still recommend cleaning them with tsp with the paint on them? Also, my clients are so adamant about spraying but I am trying to tell them I can still make them look good with a roller. They won't believe me of course since I already screwed up their cabinets by not sealing them properly in the first place.


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## paintguy48 (May 1, 2009)

Man, you are going to school on this job. Mark is right about the cleaning with tsp. Try this with your customer. Take a cabinet door and re-prep it with cleaning and sanding. Since I haven't used the Behr products I'm guessing the gloss is kind of thick and sticky (just a guess). If so add some extender like Floetrol and with your best brush apply it to the door. Now, you could use a small nap roller and back brush as well. Do not roll and let dry. They will not like the stipple it leaves. After a full dry show them the sample and go from their. I haven't read all the post on the other thread so I may be repeating. I do know with the open grain in oak it does need brushed and sure you can spray almost anything. Next job take baby steps and use a paint supplier in your area other than the box stores. I may be in Denver doing some work in about 2 weeks.
Good Luck


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## tsunamicontract (May 3, 2008)

yah you are pretty much screwed now buddy. You need to strip everything off, clean, sand, neutralize stripper, prime, fill, sand, prime, sand, spray, sand, spray. Have fun!


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## Peakhomeservices (May 26, 2009)

paintguy48 said:


> Man, you are going to school on this job. Mark is right about the cleaning with tsp. Try this with your customer. Take a cabinet door and re-prep it with cleaning and sanding. Since I haven't used the Behr products I'm guessing the gloss is kind of thick and sticky (just a guess). If so add some extender like Floetrol and with your best brush apply it to the door. Now, you could use a small nap roller and back brush as well. Do not roll and let dry. They will not like the stipple it leaves. After a full dry show them the sample and go from their. I haven't read all the post on the other thread so I may be repeating. I do know with the open grain in oak it does need brushed and sure you can spray almost anything. Next job take baby steps and use a paint supplier in your area other than the box stores. I may be in Denver doing some work in about 2 weeks.
> Good Luck


Grease is only popping out in one small area. The major problem is the dark brown stains that popped out where all the grains are in the wood after I painted. I am just wondering why I need to "clean" those. I was just going to Prime them with a brush....


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## Peakhomeservices (May 26, 2009)

paintguy48 said:


> Man, you are going to school on this job. Mark is right about the cleaning with tsp. Try this with your customer. Take a cabinet door and re-prep it with cleaning and sanding. Since I haven't used the Behr products I'm guessing the gloss is kind of thick and sticky (just a guess). If so add some extender like Floetrol and with your best brush apply it to the door. Now, you could use a small nap roller and back brush as well. Do not roll and let dry. They will not like the stipple it leaves. After a full dry show them the sample and go from their. I haven't read all the post on the other thread so I may be repeating. I do know with the open grain in oak it does need brushed and sure you can spray almost anything. Next job take baby steps and use a paint supplier in your area other than the box stores. I may be in Denver doing some work in about 2 weeks.
> Good Luck


Thanks. Worst of all I am getting screamed at like never before by my client every time I try to talk to them about how I should repair these.


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## paintguy48 (May 1, 2009)

Peakhomeservices said:


> Grease is only popping out in one small area. The major problem is the dark brown stains that popped out where all the grains are in the wood after I painted. I am just wondering why I need to "clean" those. I was just going to Prime them with a brush....


Then you know how to take care of the grease. Go ahead and prime over the brown stains. Again this is your test door.

On your other post about the yelling. Theirs a limit on that. Kill them with kindness and after reading some of the other posts, someone mentioned getting a signed approval on the test door and the steps your going to take to fix. GET IT!!! If the yelling keeps going, just walk away and document the whole thing.


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## daren (Jul 5, 2008)

Man you are like a broken record. Clean the damn cabinets. Patch them like in the pictures in the other thread. Next you need to prime them with 2 or 3 coats of lacquer undercoat with a sprayer. It dries in 30 mins. This will let you sand them really smooth. Now here is the important part. Go to a paint store and get a high quality trim paint. They can match the color. Spray 2 or 3 coats, clean up and run away.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

What I'm still confused about is the grease that is coming through. Did I understand correctly? that grease is bleeding through? Yah I know you said one small area, but if you did not thoroughly clean the cabs before (which apparently you did not) you will have grease EVERYWHERE. Paint does not bond to grease !

IMO the job is F*CKED-UP. No amount of paint is going cure the bonding issues because you did not clean properly.

Go to the HO, with your head bowed in remorse and explain that that you really F*CKED-UP. Tell her that the only solution is to, at your own cost, strip and repaint. Explain that paint, like a building, needs a good foundation. If it's built on mud, no amount of fancy finishing will make it survive. 

And as for the yelling, yah, I'm afraid yer going to get a little of that.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Classic:thumbup:

"See! I told you painting was easy!"
:laughing::laughing:



Sorry peek. Strip them. Anything else is a waste of time.


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## Peakhomeservices (May 26, 2009)

*Ha - Painting is not easy*



Bender said:


> Classic:thumbup:
> 
> "See! I told you painting was easy!"
> :laughing::laughing:
> ...


Okay what do I strip them with? If I strip this is going to take me all day if I have to do the whole insides of the cabinets and the shelves.


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## tedrin (Oct 22, 2008)

Peakhomeservices said:


> Okay what do I strip them with? If I strip this is going to take me all day if I have to do the whole insides of the cabinets and the shelves.


 
Just do a test door...Sand first with 150....Tack cloth it...Then give it a coat of Zinsser.cover stain oil based primer...Because it is bleeding through the pores of the Oak,I'd roll them with a 5mm pile lint free sleeve...This will push the primer into the wood....Spraying doesn't always do this...Let it dry and then sand it with 220 ....Tack cloth and then apply your top coats...


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## tsunamicontract (May 3, 2008)

daArch said:


> What I'm still confused about is the grease that is coming through. Did I understand correctly? that grease is bleeding through? Yah I know you said one small area, but if you did not thoroughly clean the cabs before (which apparently you did not) you will have grease EVERYWHERE. Paint does not bond to grease !
> 
> IMO the job is F*CKED-UP. No amount of paint is going cure the bonding issues because you did not clean properly.
> 
> ...


That is what i said a bunch of posts ago . . .
But sure, just listen to bill.


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## 1977corey (Feb 27, 2009)

*Ha, painting IS easy (when you have the experience)*



Peakhomeservices said:


> Okay what do I strip them with? If I strip this is going to take me all day if I have to do the whole insides of the cabinets and the shelves.


You should strip them by filling a bathtub, preferably the homeowner's, with lacquer thinner, and then proceed to soak the cabinets in it:jester:


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I think there is a chance you will not have to strip them. The Oak pores in cabinets can bleed through waterborne finishes, maybe it just holds grease, but it seems to be something else when I have seen it. If your primer is FIRMLY adhered, I think you will be fine with priming over existing coatings and repainting. I think you could spray the doors laying flat with a thinner primer such as BIN and it would flow into the pores and seal them up.


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## Peakhomeservices (May 26, 2009)

*I love your answer*



DeanV said:


> I think there is a chance you will not have to strip them. The Oak pores in cabinets can bleed through waterborne finishes, maybe it just holds grease, but it seems to be something else when I have seen it. If your primer is FIRMLY adhered, I think you will be fine with priming over existing coatings and repainting. I think you could spray the doors laying flat with a thinner primer such as BIN and it would flow into the pores and seal them up.



Thank you so much. So I am getting differing opinions. In your opinion how do you rate the following products - Oil based Kilz, Zinsser and Binz? Are they all the same or do you prefer one over the other? I try to avoid Oil - hence the main reason I created these problems in the first place - so have only used each one a couple times each.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Oops


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

Here is my $.02. These guys are proffesional "players" and you got played but you already know that. Talk to a plumber or other contractors who have done work for them and I'll bet they'll tell you they couldn't be pleased or had a hard time getting full payment. So, if you completely redo the job at your cost (How much was your estimate?) that is twice the manhours and then what do you do if they are not pleased - triple the manhours and do it again? Crazy. If they are yelling at you everytime you communicate, it appears that even if you give the best cabinet job in the world - there is no way you get a referral. Consider this, tell them you are unable to meet their expectations, take pictures of the how the cabinets look now, refund any money they've paid and walk away. If the cabinets are decent but not perfect, consider this a lesson and move on. If they are shotty and the client is legit, that's a whole different issue. And you better make sure you learn a lesson and not ever have to consider doing the above again. Good luck, this is a tough one.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Peakhomeservices said:


> Thank you so much. So I am getting differing opinions. In your opinion how do you rate the following products - Oil based Kilz, Zinsser and Binz? Are they all the same or do you prefer one over the other? I try to avoid Oil - hence the main reason I created these problems in the first place - so have only used each one a couple times each.


Bin is made by Zinsser and is a shellac based primer. It is not necessarily easy to work with, but nothing sands smoother. It is also thinner than the other options, so I think it flows well into the pores if you put a wet coat on flat surfaces. You will still have to figure out what to do with the cabinet frames and stuff. I would try to do those by hand and then just spray the doors offsite, since the doors are the most visible portion anyway (although, I do not think they will go for that).

Again though, make SURE that what is already applied is firmly adhered. Make sure it will not scratch off with the edge of a coin, your finger nail and/or do the cross hatch and tape test.


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## Jeff.Chicago (May 19, 2008)

Mark said:


> Normally my process for cabinets is sand, fill any holes, tsp clean to degrease the cabinets and oil prime if they have never been painted or shellac whichever you prefer. If you still have grease coming thru do a tsp clean. (tri sodium phosphate). You can get it at any hardware store. You simply just mix it with water and wash them down. You can also get a foam cigar roller which is a fine finish roller that will fill grain in oak cabs and also give you a fine finish sprayed look.


Exactly how I do it. Turns out perfect every time.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I clean first, I do not want to sand over grease.


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## brushmstr (Feb 15, 2009)

Peak,
Sand a test door ( backside ) with 220 then coat with bin (alcohol based) Then lightly sand and finish coat. This I would think is the simplest solution. But only as a test.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

tsunamicontract said:


> That is what i said a bunch of posts ago . . .
> But sure, just listen to bill.


too funny !

MANY people have been saying the same thing. I think Vt said it in about the second post of the orig thread. 

WE ALL need to be listened to. It's like the guy on the ledge. If enough people yell , "JUMP !" , he will.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

FC said:


> Here is my $.02. These guys are proffesional "players" and you got played but you already know that. Talk to a plumber or other contractors who have done work for them and I'll bet they'll tell you they couldn't be pleased or had a hard time getting full payment.


What?
Inferior product and inferior prep hardly makes a homeowner a scammer.




Dean said:


> I clean first, I do not want to sand over grease.


:yes:


Is this job in Aurora?


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

Peakhomeservices said:


> Okay what do I strip them with? If I strip this is going to take me all day if I have to do the whole insides of the cabinets and the shelves.



*WELCOME TO PAINTING!*

:thumbup:

Seriously though, I'm not finding fault with you. It sounds like you are truly trying to fix the problem.

Be persistent, stay humble, keep doing it until it's done right, and I guarantee you will learn a lot from this experience. Not just about painting cabinets, what you learn will span other aspects of painting as well.

People here will continue to help you with this project if you keep trying to get it done correctly. And I think they will respect you when it's all said and done.

The setbacks you are experiencing now are tuition. Trust me when I say if you persist and do the job until it is done right, you will eventually become an excellent painter, and it can be very lucrative for you.

It's hard in our position not to flip you a little sh*t about this seeing as how we have all been there. 

Onwards and upwards.


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

DeanV said:


> I clean first, I do not want to sand over grease.


Ditto.

Plus any dust from the sanding clogs up the cleaning rag/sponge and creates potential deposits as the surface is being cleaned.


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## Peakhomeservices (May 26, 2009)

*Yes but the comment made me think.....*



Bender said:


> What?
> Inferior product and inferior prep hardly makes a homeowner a scammer.
> 
> They are not necessarily scammers but my gut tells me that I might work all day to make them perfect and that they will still find a way to not pay me. She called me the other day to scream at me again. I sprayed their front door and taped off a small area 6 inches by 6 inches of stained glass to protect it from being painted and when she took the tape off (the one area I forgot to remove the tape from) the next day all the stained glass fell out. Not my fault unless there are special instructions for taping off stained glass that is on a 40 year old door that has opened and shut a million times. Just another thing that went wrong on this job. But she still screamed at me about it.
> ...


Anyway, the job is in South Denver.


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## Macsimus (Jun 24, 2008)

DeanV said:


> I clean first, I do not want to sand over grease.


I sand first. I don't know what kind of places you are working at where there is that much grease on the cabinets that it would clog up your sandpaper. I wouldn't want to touch those things. Worst case though is the grease should only be on the 2 or so cabinets directly above the stove. You could pre-wash these and then wash all of the pieces after sanding. Then you wash all the sanding dust off too. Although I am pretty anal, I sand (and fill at the same time), vacuum, wash, prime, sand, vacuum, tack cloth, finish coats.


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## tsunamicontract (May 3, 2008)

how did this mess turn out?


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## Ronald parker (Aug 10, 2009)

Hi,

Remove everything from large items to small dirt and grime. Use fine sandpaper to rub all surfaces. A sanded surface will allow the primer to hold on to the surface. Apply the primer. Do not go at once into applying the paint. Apply a thin coat first using brush. Then just brush on additional coats later.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

^^^ Since the first post was the 3rd of June and it's now mid October, he either got the problem resolved or walked away. Might want to look at the OP dates when responding to some of these.

And then this another classic example of somebody crying for help, obviously in over his head with a part of painting he knows nothing about, and not much of a pro if he cant figure out how to properly prep and prime cabinets....and then never posts how the problem was resolved.


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## Kelly's Painting (Dec 3, 2009)

Peakhomeservices said:


> Hi guys! I know I already got a lot of feedback from you but if anyone new has feedback I would love to hear it - even if it is the same feedback that I got before. So basically I spoke with my clients about repairing their oak kitchen cabinets that I sprayed already. The recommendation that about four of you told me was to repair the cabinets by Brushing and Rolling the problem areas where stains and grease are popping out.
> 
> They are adamant about spraying them all over again. They were told by their friend who is a remodeling contractor in another state that "you can spray anything". But what all of you have told me is that Oak Cabinets are different and need to be brushed and rolled. They want me to e-mail your comments. She just screamed at me for 5 minutes straight - the most unhappy and troubled client I have ever had.... For those you who have already commented, thank you, I will be using your comments as a reference to the best way to make these cabinets look good!


you should have kilzed it first and spraying cabinets in my opinion does look better it eliminates brush marks and roller texture. never paint cabinets with a roller it looks like crap to anyone who knows any better. i can put a finish on with a sprayer comparable to any cars clear coat


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

Kelly's Painting said:


> you should have kilzed it first and spraying cabinets in my opinion does look better it eliminates brush marks and roller texture. never paint cabinets with a roller it looks like crap to anyone who knows any better. i can put a finish on with a sprayer comparable to any cars clear coat


I wouldn't put kilz over a clear coat finish :blink:. Shellac after a thorough cleaning - "shellac sticks to anything, and anything sticks to shellac".


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## flowjo (Apr 25, 2009)

cant you just use bin on your trouble spots seems to work ok when i paint crappy welfare appartments that have an inch of grease everywhere lol nasty **** out there man


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## papernpaste (Dec 10, 2009)

I painted my own kitchen oak cabinets with an quick dry alkyd primer that SW sells. Sanded, then, painted with BM Waterborne Satin Impervo (white) and they turned out really fine...as far as the finish- leveling, etc. But, six-eight months of use has shown me that just about any latex wont hold up on cabinets like these with no pulls or knobs. The edges get too beat up. I repainted with Alkd ...not all of them, yet.... and after three months, I can tell that I waisted my time, using Latex. It just doesn't cure hard enough. By the way, I brush painted, adding a schmiget of lacquer thinner to get it to set quickly and dry more quickly. The areas that I've repainted with Alkd Satin Impervo are "smokin'!" There's my take...for what it's worth...
btw, tsp should always be the first step. I've even used Goof Off 2 and a micro-fiber cloth that is already damp (not wet) with water. It cleans any surface grease without screwing up the finish...works even better than tsp...but, cleaning the surface first in the kitchen...ceiling, walls, cabinets, whatever you're going to paint...is an absolute Biblical-like law that can't be broken...otherwise you'll have all sorts of crap comin' outta the paint, sooner or later. good luck.


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

papernpaste said:


> I painted my own kitchen oak cabinets with an quick dry alkyd primer that SW sells. Sanded, then, painted with BM Waterborne Satin Impervo (white) and they turned out really fine...as far as the finish- leveling, etc. But, six-eight months of use has shown me that just about any latex wont hold up on cabinets like these with no pulls or knobs. The edges get too beat up. I repainted with Alkd ...not all of them, yet.... and after three months, I can tell that I waisted my time, using Latex. It just doesn't cure hard enough. By the way, I brush painted, adding a schmiget of lacquer thinner to get it to set quickly and dry more quickly. The areas that I've repainted with Alkd Satin Impervo are "smokin'!" There's my take...for what it's worth...
> btw, tsp should always be the first step. I've even used Goof Off 2 and a micro-fiber cloth that is already damp (not wet) with water. It cleans any surface grease without screwing up the finish...works even better than tsp...but, cleaning the surface first in the kitchen...ceiling, walls, cabinets, whatever you're going to paint...is an absolute Biblical-like law that can't be broken...otherwise you'll have all sorts of crap comin' outta the paint, sooner or later. good luck.


please go here: http://www.painttalk.com/f3/ and introduce yourself.


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