# Green alternative to BM Impervo enamel alkyd



## someresearch (Sep 2, 2008)

I currently have interior trim painted in Benjamin Moore's alkyd Impervo enamel. I am looking for a non-toxic or at least zero VOC (including zero VOC for the tint) paint.

Does anyone have any recommendations on a paint with similar leveling and flow characteristics, without the yellowing, and in a low/medium lustre finish? I want zero to minimal brush strokes. I want scuff protection so that the paint lasts. Eggshell does not provide enough scuff protection, and semi-gloss is not desired.

Most of the new non-toxic or zero VOC paints that I have seen are either not recommended for trim, or they do not come in a satin sheen. I am not concerned about price because we're only talking about a gallon or two.

Yes. I want my cake and I want to eat it too. Any recommendations?


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

someresearch said:


> I currently have interior trim painted in Benjamin Moore's alkyd Impervo enamel. I am looking for a non-toxic or at least zero VOC (including zero VOC for the tint) paint.
> 
> Does anyone have any recommendations on a paint with similar leveling and flow characteristics, without the yellowing, and in a low/medium lustre finish? I want zero to minimal brush strokes. I want scuff protection so that the paint lasts. Eggshell does not provide enough scuff protection, and semi-gloss is not desired.
> 
> ...


Aura satin is low but not zero.
Zero VOC will not be as hard for wear and tear.


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## ajpace (Jan 6, 2008)

> Zero VOC will not be as hard for wear and tear.


Agreed. While VOC's can contribute to outdoor air pollution and some are harmful to humans, they certainly do wonders for curing and hardening paint films. 

We've had success with using a standard zero VOC wall paint and top coating with AFM Acrylacq. Its a water based, solvent free acrylic lacquer replacement. Yes, it adds a step and another product. Unfortunately, there is no magic potion...yet. 

Andy


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Eco-Spec WB silver.


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## Ranger72 (Jul 3, 2010)

Aura interior satin levels very nicely. It has a pretty hard finish as well. Low VOC, but not zero VOC.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

The aura gets as hard as other non-low voc acrylic paints from what I can tell. Not has hard as oil impervo though.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

oh forget about voc's, what are we coming to?


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## someresearch (Sep 2, 2008)

Yeah, Aura is an option that I have looked at a bit.

Any thoughts on BM Advance Waterborne Alkyd? The vocs are pretty low. The pitch online seems to suggest it is aimed as a replacement to the old oil standby.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

I have some brake pads I can sell ya.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

johnpaint said:


> I have some brake pads I can sell ya.


Mistah John paintuhhhh gonna brush out some oil that won't yerrow and then throw his 5-1 and make it stick into the wall just rike Bruce Ree!


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

You bet, I be worken hard, but I just have one thing to say. I like you, but your bid is way too high. I have another painter that says he can paint my house for 600 less than you, but I like you better. I would want you to paint my house if you could paint it for 600 less like de other painter. Can you do that, I will give you the job.


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## 4ThGeneration (Apr 17, 2007)

I have brushed and sprayed thousands of gallons of the BM Satin Impervo during the 10 years I worked with my Grandpa's company. I actually tried to get them to swing to Impervex, but the builder would not go for it. I finally went on my own and started using the Murallo which The BM store we have been with since '71 carried. He came across one of my jobs and saw the glass like finish and toughness. After that I heard he made the switch too.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

4ThGeneration said:


> I have brushed and sprayed thousands of gallons of the BM Satin Impervo during the 10 years I worked with my Grandpa's company. I actually tried to get them to swing to Impervex, but the builder would not go for it. I finally went on my own and started using the Murallo which The BM store we have been with since '71 carried. He came across one of my jobs and saw the glass like finish and toughness. After that I heard he made the switch too.


Muralo makes some fine products. Im glad BM bought them, hopefully the line will get more National recognition now, instead of being more regionally known.


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## DCcenter (Nov 3, 2010)

Aura Satin. its low VOC, but its a much better option than any no VOC products.


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## Tom Langley (Jan 25, 2012)

The solution to this paint issue is for the "greenies" to remove their heads from their posteriors, so I'm not at all confident we'll go back to the days when the market chose our products instead of the government.

Our company has been very proud of the trim we've done over the years with products like Cellutone and Impervo, but now we're running into so many "greenies" that it's no longer possible to do work we can be proud of. 

If anyone has used anything that satisfies the "greenies" and comes close to Impervo I'd love to know about it.

By the way, Aura is crap. You're not doing anyone any favors by recommending it to them. But I guess your victims can spend $50 to learn for themselves.

We have a job now where the owner has beautifully lacquered cabinets that have yellowed some and wants to go over them with latex/acrylic semi-gloss. I'm practically sick over it. I'm 64 years old and am no longer allowed by the "greenies" and the politicians they've bought to do work I can be proud of. 

This business is going down the toilet.

I know this is harsh, but folks we are going down the toilet after having pulled the lever ourselves. For the sake of this country, your children and grandchildren; WAKE-UP.


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

Tom Langley said:


> The solution to this paint issue is for the "greenies" to remove their heads from their posteriors, so I'm not at all confident we'll go back to the days when the market chose our products instead of the government.
> 
> Our company has been very proud of the trim we've done over the years with products like Cellutone and Impervo, but now we're running into so many "greenies" that it's no longer possible to do work we can be proud of.
> 
> ...


Guy asked for: _"Green alternative to BM Impervo enamel alkyd"_ 
In the Green Painting forum.
Not your opinions of ther state of afairs.

I am really sorry for what these solvents have done to you.
_"Your country, your children"_ are wanting less of these solvents you had.
Our "market" does want green or manufacturers wouldn't want that. They are sort of money smart that way.
Aura is not crap, and business is doing great. 
But thanks for the inspirational words anyway:thumbsup:


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I started to comment, but didn't have the energy to type all that out. Thanks George. I too am glad that coatings are getting less dangerous to us. Its also nice to paint a bedroom and the owners not be able to smell strong paint odors when they come home that evening.


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## playedout6 (Apr 27, 2009)

It is also a nice thing to have the painters living longer too !:thumbsup:


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## playedout6 (Apr 27, 2009)

I suggest Manor Hall Timeless by PPG ...great for covering..available in matte , Eggshell Plus and Semi and it is low VOC...just not sure how low ? Has a Lifetime warranty . Best hiding deep base paint I have ever used in 30 years in a Semi Gloss at that ! BUT...I also have never used the BM products either as they are not available in this area .


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## degarb (Apr 30, 2011)

George Z said:


> Guy asked for: _"Green alternative to BM Impervo enamel alkyd"_
> In the Green Painting forum.
> Not your opinions of ther state of afairs.
> 
> ...


I think his opinion that Aura is crap is very valid.

I have spent about 10 grand trying various water borne alternative that could come close to the pop of the oil. Without revealing my product conclusion (based on 2005-2009 tests), I can reveal my overall concerns. Mainly, that the tougher and more glasslike the waterborne finish, the more impossible it will become to multicoat without fisheying. Also, whenever you sacrifice longevity for low voc, or lead disturbing, you have a false economy. Like, let us put polution controls to lower c02 by 10 percent and get a car that barely gets 1/3 gas mileage. (no c02 for refining, shipping and drilling?)


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

degarb said:


> I think his opinion that Aura is crap is very valid.
> 
> I have spent about 10 grand trying various water borne alternative that could come close to the pop of the oil. Without revealing my product conclusion (based on 2005-2009 tests), I can reveal my overall concerns. Mainly, that the tougher and more glasslike the waterborne finish, the more impossible it will become to multicoat without fisheying. Also, whenever you sacrifice longevity for low voc, or lead disturbing, you have a false economy. Like, let us put polution controls to lower c02 by 10 percent and get a car that barely gets 1/3 gas mileage. (no c02 for refining, shipping and drilling?)


Your secret product findings aside.
"Sacrificing longevity for VOC" is not a quality but a social proposition.

I will not accept the quality argument.
There is no alkyd that will yellow less than acrylics, 
in this case add colour lock and Aura wins the longevity game hands down.

Exterior: Alkyd in the sun fades in 2 years, especially dark colours (what longevity?)
Alkyd is way too rigid and will always crack more than quality acrylics.

But really, I don't want my guys to get that *Impervo headache* I have always had for years.
But mostly, I want my painters to have sweet dreams at night.
There are better causes to sacrifice our brain cells 
than Mrs Smith's baseboards and spindles.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Aura isn't crap. Not even close, its the best wall paint on the market for film build and color hide period. The fact its low voc is a plus. 

Only time I have had fish eye issues is with clears. There are some pretty impressive wb enamels out there now, not as good as traditional oil but close.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Ditto to fisheyes in clears only. I have never had a wb paint fisheye without an obvious contamination.

Aura is pricey, but it still is a great product. We are very happy with the matte, although we are specifying more regal select lately.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Oh me oh my, some folks really don't want to let go of oil. 

Competence in waterborne is critical to painters who intend to stick around for another decade. Primers too. 

I'm with George on this one. Oil finishes are nice. Waterborne finishes are nice. Save the brain cells. 

This isnt about voc or epa. Its about working conditions and avoiding chronic issues. 

The 10 minutes it takes me to clean a hvlp gun with thinner makes me just about puke. 25 years ago it was a great buzz. 

All set with that. Its a much more practical life move to get good in things that involve water. 

I wont even go into how good powder form crystalline silica is for us.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Isn't the silica in acrylic as much as oil???


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

DeanV said:


> Isn't the silica in acrylic as much as oil???


I believe that you won't find as much crystalline silica in anything as in oil based enamel.

Edit: Dean, I just checked msds, it is present in both 235 and 314.


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## Rick the painter (Mar 30, 2009)

We just did a Advance over Satin Impervo (White) trim job. I have to say i was thrilled with the results! The sills and windows look like glass.There were no doors,i know there will be a learning curve there.Congrats to Benjamin Mooore,Advance is killer!


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## paint manager (Feb 15, 2012)

*Advance*

A great replacement for Satin Impervo Alkyd is the Advance Satin, Semi or High Gloss. Ask your local Benjamin Moore dealer for a sample.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

What's interesting here, is that noone mentioned that he will probably have to prime that oil first to get superior results with the acrylic top coat. Now ,coming out with a Low VOC primer would be taking it one step further.. Even though they do say that 100% Acrylic will go over properly prepared oil, I just don't trust it..


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

finishesbykevyn said:


> What's interesting here, is that noone mentioned that he will probably have to prime that oil first to get superior results with the acrylic top coat. Now ,coming out with a Low VOC primer would be taking it one step further.. Even though they do say that 100% Acrylic will go over properly prepared oil, I just don't trust it..


Advance is not an acrylic, but an alkyd (oil).
We painted straight on Satin Impervo with it after lightly sanding it.
After the product cures it is very hard and durable.


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## ron e (Feb 28, 2012)

i agree aura is overpriced and hard to work with, lay it on tip it off and leave it alone don,t over brush this stuff


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## The paint tester (Mar 14, 2012)

someresearch said:


> I currently have interior trim painted in Benjamin Moore's alkyd Impervo enamel. I am looking for a non-toxic or at least zero VOC (including zero VOC for the tint) paint.
> 
> Does anyone have any recommendations on a paint with similar leveling and flow characteristics, without the yellowing, and in a low/medium lustre finish? I want zero to minimal brush strokes. I want scuff protection so that the paint lasts. Eggshell does not provide enough scuff protection, and semi-gloss is not desired.
> 
> ...


only 1!! Muralo Ultra. levels like an oil, will not yellow, in 24hrs. you can sand to a powder. My advice from testing this product is such. Do NOT load it up like you would satin impervo..brush it on thinner, move faster, tip it off, and do not look back! if you happen to look back and see a sag...DO NOT touch it! It will have already set up and you'll do more to screw the finish up than help. Next day check and see if you can even "find" that sag. It truly levels so well you may not. If you do find it...use a good sanding block (extra fine or fine used many times) my favorite is by Webb Abasives, sand that sag out, apply your second coat. If you are spraying, FOG it on, or tack coat it (conventional or air assisted) airless, use the finest tip you can DBL attomizer, 207 etc...fog it on, stand back and watch what happens in as little as 10 min. the particles that look like orange peel flow out, join and dry down beautiful in 1 hour. Hit it again same way when it's dry to the touch. Try this over unsanded oil trim and try to scratch it off after just 5 days...most acrylics need 30 days to reach that hardness and even then will lift right off. This stuff holds on better than most primers I've used. I will say, my first spry job was as I have always done, nice even wet film, as I moved on around the piece I was spraying, the side I started was sagged to hell and back...Spoke to the rep and he said as I said above do not touch it, sand it lightly after 24 hours, and fog it on the next day...looked like lacquer! Forget Aura, thick like mud, overpriced, dries way to fast, (most acrylics do unfortunately). :yes:


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## Gumerk (May 26, 2013)

Ben Moore Advanced...the best trim paint I've used..."so far," doesn't yellow like oil, goes on smooth, dries fast, touches up easy, doesn't give me the buzzed feeling, but you have to watch the runs. BM Advanced seems to be a late runner, so where others are gonna run in 5-10 minutes BM Advanced seems to run in like 15-30 even...considering climate conditions. Cleans up with with water. 

One thing from my experience I'd point out is if you want a certain finish go up one to get that finish comparable to oil. So, if you want a satin finish, get a semi gloss, semi gloss get a gloss etc.

I never want to use any other trim paint, unless something crazy better comes out.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

It does yellow in whites. It is great for some stuff. Takes too long between coats and has poor blocking, for how I like to do things at least. I'm really liking Ultraplate by California, and of course, Muralo Ultra. I get awesome results with both.


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## palehorse222 (Oct 22, 2008)

I've found that BM Advance is the best for re-painting satin impervo, period. forget Aura unless your using a full coat of fresh start under it. I've put Aura Satin over Impervo and had a nightmare to fix. The finish just wouldn't bond, despite deglossing..At that time, I went back and primed it with fresh start (Advance was not yet available)..Is Advance readily available out west/mid-west? I didn't see anyone mention it. It is low-VOC, but not 0..if you want 0 maybe try Natura primer/Natura


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## harmonicarocks (Nov 29, 2013)

someresearch said:


> I currently have interior trim painted in Benjamin Moore's alkyd Impervo enamel. I am looking for a non-toxic or at least zero VOC (including zero VOC for the tint) paint.
> 
> Does anyone have any recommendations on a paint with similar leveling and flow characteristics, without the yellowing, and in a low/medium lustre finish? I want zero to minimal brush strokes. I want scuff protection so that the paint lasts. Eggshell does not provide enough scuff protection, and semi-gloss is not desired.
> 
> ...


The Muralo Ultra products are low voc and the closest thing IMO to the oil base you want to replace. After curing, the hardness of Ultra is comparable to oil. You will want to use a little extender with it on the first coat, and not over-brush this product. The second coat is a little more tricky, and requires a little thinning with extender and a little water. It is available in a satin finish.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Where's Bill when we need him? :whistling2:


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

RH said:


> Where's Bill when we need him? :whistling2:


In his recliner, sipping whiskey and laughing his a$$ off.:yes:


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## bklynboy1970 (Oct 8, 2013)

slinger58 said:


> in his recliner, sipping whiskey and laughing his a$$ off.:yes:


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## bbair (Nov 18, 2012)

someresearch said:


> I currently have interior trim painted in Benjamin Moore's alkyd Impervo enamel. I am looking for a non-toxic or at least zero VOC (including zero VOC for the tint) paint.
> 
> Does anyone have any recommendations on a paint with similar leveling and flow characteristics, without the yellowing, and in a low/medium lustre finish? I want zero to minimal brush strokes. I want scuff protection so that the paint lasts. Eggshell does not provide enough scuff protection, and semi-gloss is not desired.
> 
> ...


Farrow & Ball is probably the nicest paint I've ever seen and it's zero voc. I sprayed the high gloss on interior trim and it sprayed like oil and layed down even better. It's a pain to order though.

Sent from my iPhone using PaintTalk


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## GreenApple (Oct 22, 2012)

Here's another vote up for Advance I love it! Down here in Charlotte there are lots of new construction homes still being painted with oil paint so the safest solution for repainting has been Advance! Although after seeing all of the great comments about Muralo Ultra, I will definitely have to check out it's availability down here! That's why I love this forum!


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## Stonehampaintdept (Jan 10, 2013)

Ultraplate by California is another option for you if available in your area. Its a urethane modified acrylic, cures rock hard, levels nice.


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## Deckard2019 (Mar 19, 2015)

Stonehampaintdept said:


> Ultraplate by California is another option for you if available in your area. Its a urethane modified acrylic, cures rock hard, levels nice.[/QUOTE
> 
> 
> 
> I'm looking to test that out myself after hearing good things about it. What type of primer did you use?


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## JourneymanBrian (Mar 16, 2015)

How is urethane considered green?? Its also plastic...
Acrylic is not necessarily safer than VOC paint, just smells better and is easier to wash off. If you spray it, for example, acrylic is even more dangerous, as your lungs dont reject the water-based vapors.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

I should note for anyone re-reading this old thread that since the original posts, Aura has now gone to zero VOC.


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## Criard (Nov 23, 2013)

The new top end paint by Valspar at Lowe's and Ace hardware (the $45/gal one) is zero VOC (both paint and colorants), EXTREMELY durable in all sheens (allegedly more durable than Aura according to the draw-downs and rub tests the rep showed us), and levels out ridiculously well. I used a $.50 chip brush to paint out a sample area when trying out a few colors, and when it dried it had leveled out to a spray-like finish. 

I just wish the company I work for now stocked it. 

I really loved


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Criard said:


> The new top end paint by Valspar at Lowe's and Ace hardware (the $45/gal one) is zero VOC (both paint and colorants), EXTREMELY durable in all sheens (allegedly more durable than Aura according to the draw-downs and rub tests the rep showed us), and levels out ridiculously well. I used a $.50 chip brush to paint out a sample area when trying out a few colors, and when it dried it had leveled out to a spray-like finish.
> 
> I just wish the company I work for now stocked it.
> 
> I really loved


How dubious the rest of this post is aside, can you provide a source about their zero VOC colorants? I used Valspar colorants at my last job and it was anything but zero VOC. There was only one dispenser.


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

Don't know for sure but my understanding is that when you account for the embodied energy in both alkyd and acrylic, alkyd may still be greener. Because the raw materials are more renewable(plant based) whereas acrylics are petroleum based. VOCs are a different story as other threads have talked about. 

Anybody know if this is actually the case?


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## Stonehampaintdept (Jan 10, 2013)

Woodford said:


> I should note for anyone re-reading this old thread that since the original posts, Aura has now gone to zero VOC.


So is their a point to a store stocking both Natura and Aura? Last time I sold BM was when Aura first hit the market so some of the subtle differences have been off my radar.


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## Stonehampaintdept (Jan 10, 2013)

[/QUOTE] I'm looking to test that out myself after hearing good things about it. What type of primer did you use?[/QUOTE]

Depends on the situation, can be used with many different primers.


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## Criard (Nov 23, 2013)

Woodford said:


> How dubious the rest of this post is aside, can you provide a source about their zero VOC colorants? I used Valspar colorants at my last job and it was anything but zero VOC. There was only one dispenser.


I don't see why my post was any more dubious than anyone else posting about what paint they like and why. It's marketed at Zero VOC in both paint and colorant, and there is very little (if any) smell. I've scrubbed their flat sheen and there was no burnishing or scratching at all. I hap-hazardly slapped some paint on a wall with a garbage brush and watched it level to a completely smooth and markless finish. 

I no longer work for a company that sells Valspar, so it's not like I'm trying to boost sales for our benefit.

Also, the zeroVOC colorants are called "Novocolor HP". Unfortunately I can find pretty much zero info about it online, but rest assured their sales rep really talked it up real good :laughing:


Off topic edit:
Kinda funny. Valspar spent 4 years (they claim) and who knows how much money developing these new paint lines, and settled on "Optimus" as the name for their top-end at Ace hardware. Apparently Sherwin Williams has or had a line of paint with the same name that came out sometime in the 90s and are now trying to sue Valspar over it. This should be interesting


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

PRC said:


> Don't know for sure but my understanding is that when you account for the embodied energy in both alkyd and acrylic, alkyd may still be greener. Because the raw materials are more renewable(plant based) whereas acrylics are petroleum based. VOCs are a different story as other threads have talked about.
> 
> Anybody know if this is actually the case?


I think you may be mixed up a bit; oil based paints are... oil based. can be up to be roughly 60% petroleum products (using the Satin Impervo as a guide, looking at about 35% petroleum and 35% naptha which is a natural gas/petrol product as well).

When you look at a latex product, Aura for example, the MSDS doesn't list any petrol products that I can see. Note that MSDS _only notes hazardous ingredients,_ however since almost all petrol products fall under that category it seems fairly telling. Of course, latex itself is a rubber product which can come from plants, but can also be made synthetically, so it's hard to say for sure how renewable it is.



Stonehampaintdept said:


> So is their a point to a store stocking both Natura and Aura? Last time I sold BM was when Aura first hit the market so some of the subtle differences have been off my radar.


Natura still has a few differences. Namely some of the certifications (Cradle to Cradle, which by-the-by ties into being made with mostly/entirely renewable resources) and according to my paint rep Natura doesn't really off-gas much at all except for water vapor.

Hopefully this helps clarify a bit!


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## Stonehampaintdept (Jan 10, 2013)

Criard said:


> Off topic edit:
> Kinda funny. Valspar spent 4 years (they claim) and who knows how much money developing these new paint lines, and settled on "Optimus" as the name for their top-end at Ace hardware. Apparently Sherwin Williams has or had a line of paint with the same name that came out sometime in the 90s and are now trying to sue Valspar over it. This should be interesting


I wonder if SW had or still has a patent on the name. I assume they once did, but why keep it when you no longer use it. If so then they really have no leg to stand on I'd think.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Stonehampaintdept said:


> I wonder if SW had or still has a patent on the name. I assume they once did, but why keep it when you no longer use it. If so then they really have no leg to stand on I'd think.


Pretty sure that patents expire if you're not marketing or selling a product, and also that you can't renew them without updating the product. Not sure what the time frame is on it, though.


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

Woodford said:


> I think you may be mixed up a bit; oil based paints are... oil based. can be up to be roughly 60% petroleum products (using the Satin Impervo as a guide, looking at about 35% petroleum and 35% naptha which is a natural gas/petrol product as well).
> 
> When you look at a latex product, Aura for example, the MSDS doesn't list any petrol products that I can see. Note that MSDS _only notes hazardous ingredients,_ however since almost all petrol products fall under that category it seems fairly telling. Of course, latex itself is a rubber product which can come from plants, but can also be made synthetically, so it's hard to say for sure how renewable it is.
> 
> ...


As far as I know vinyls, acrylics and polyurethanes are derived petroleum.
I would be quite interested in knowing which has a more detrimental impact overall. Oil seems the obvious one but resource extraction, manufacturing and all the other factors sometimes tell different stories.


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## CRS (Apr 13, 2013)

*Advance*

Check out the advance series. Ben Moore has done a decent job there. It is a true alkyd, dispersion in water. VOC < 50 grms/ltr. Just got it in my lab., so far impressed.


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## CRS (Apr 13, 2013)

*Fyi*

Most latest tech is the synthesis of acrylic back bone polymers/prepolymers from non petroleum. Giant leap forward.

The original paint used on the White House utilized egg whites as the binder, white lead and CaCo3.....

How far we have come.


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## JourneymanBrian (Mar 16, 2015)

Isnt Acrylic by definition made from petroleum?


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Acrylic acid is a by-product of petroleum production, so while it is a by-product of petroleum, unlike oil based paints using naptha and actual petroleum products it is not placing any more strain on the world's oil reserves than we'd have without it. 

And yah CRS, I don't think any other paint company has anything like Advance. The other hybrids are not the same at all.


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## CRS (Apr 13, 2013)

*Be informed*

Good to see how well you are informed Mr. Woodford. You are definitely good for this website.

The latest breakthroughs are the synthesis of acrylic acid/and associated esters from "bio". It's exciting to me, in that future acrylic polymers will be made from non petroleum products and will at least be market stable and not vary with the price of oil.

One of the attractions to developers with the VAE type polymers "most all your Zero/ultra low products is price stability.


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

CRS said:


> Good to see how well you are informed Mr. Woodford. You are definitely good for this website.
> 
> The latest breakthroughs are the synthesis of acrylic acid/and associated esters from "bio". It's exciting to me, in that future acrylic polymers will be made from non petroleum products and will at least be market stable and not vary with the price of oil.
> 
> One of the attractions to developers with the VAE type polymers "most all your Zero/ultra low products is price stability.


Price stability to the developers does not mean price stability for the end users.
Just bigger margins likely.

But yes, nice information sharing here.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

It's a step closer, at least, in theory.


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## CRS (Apr 13, 2013)

*Advance*

I recently got some of the Ben Moore into my lab.
My initial thoughts are positive, seams like they have done a good job. Leveling is near perfect, of course that comes with poor sag resistance. The applied hiding could be better. I wish they had raised the high shear viscosity up to at least 2.5 ICI Cone & Plate.

It's tough, after only 7 days cure...tough enough. I'll be evaluating the yellowing factor (typical of alkyds).

I myself will stick with the core shell acrylics and pay attention to rheological profiles in my future developments. Perfect leveling can be easily done, it's just a balance between level and sag.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Early Advance had some pretty serious problems with sag, but that's been improved to a much more generally approved amount now.

It'll keep curing for a while- probably at least another 2 weeks- for a really solid and tough cure.

I'm curious to hear back from you on the yellowing if you get a chance. We are told by our reps that Advance yellows much, MUCH less than normal alkyds to the point where most people would never notice it. I've never had anyone mention it yellowing so far, but I'd love to hear back from some in depth testing.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Woodford said:


> I'm curious to hear back from you on the yellowing if you get a chance. We are told by our reps that Advance yellows much, MUCH less than normal alkyds to the point where most people would never notice it. I've never had anyone mention it yellowing so far, but I'd love to hear back from some in depth testing.



Me too. I haven't seem any problems with yellowing on the job yet. I did have a can of Advance sitting on a shelf way in the back of my shop (no direct sun) that yellowed quite noticeably on the side of the can in less than a year. I was digging around the shop one day and saw the can sitting there. My first thought was "when did I use pale yellow Advance?" Of course, it was actually white. The paint in the can was fine, just what had ran down the label had yellowed.


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

Woodford said:


> Early Advance had some pretty serious problems with sag, but that's been improved to a much more generally approved amount now.
> 
> It'll keep curing for a while- probably at least another 2 weeks- for a really solid and tough cure.
> 
> I'm curious to hear back from you on the yellowing if you get a chance. We are told by our reps that Advance yellows much, MUCH less than normal alkyds to the point where most people would never notice it. I've never had anyone mention it yellowing so far, but I'd love to hear back from some in depth testing.


When it first was available here we painted our home's doors. Maybe 4 years ago. Looking at one now, next to acrylic painted window frame, it still looks quite white.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Thanks for the info guys! Love hearing back on stuff like this.


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