# Why Behr is no good?



## RH

So the general opinion among professional painters seems to be that Behr is garbage. A lot of HOs, as I'm sure everyone has seen, seem to love this stuff.

I personally have only used Behr one time to change a previously painted slate fireplace slab from white to black. It was pretty recent and the HO had already bought a quart of Behr premium plus. I was very surprised when it almost completely covered in one coat because I have always steered clear of the stuff because of what I've read here.

So, the actual question I have is: What FACTS can I present to future HOs to back up my recommendation that they not use it. And does anyone have experience with the premium plus line specifically as it is newer?

Thanks in advance! Having this sort of knowledge helps me close more sales as it increases my credibility.


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## Capt-sheetrock

Behr is no good for these two reasons:

1) you have to go to the store and pick it up
2) you have to pay for it before the job starts


Compared to piant that can be ordered from the phone, delivered and payed for later, after you make a draw,,,,,,,, you can see how inferior Behr paint really is, even if it is way cheaper!!!!


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## mustangmike3789

not all behr paints are created equal, some are worse than others. the problem i have with behr is that they market it as a superior product and price it as one too. there are much better paints on the market for the same price or even a lower price. the product data sheets are very vague and could possibly confuse the average DIY person that they maket toward. paint and primer in one data sheets show recommended primer/systems for certain applications such as an oil primer or primer sealer for new plaster,drywall or tannins under the section "properly prepared surfaces" and then go on to say(2 coats minimum required on new or uncoated surfaces). 2 coats of what? primer? finish paint after primer? this does not look like a "paint and primer in one" to me. to me it looks like you may need 2 coats of primer and 2 or more coats of finish paint. the only place that i can find where it says 2 coats of paint only, is over properly prepared painted surfaces. that can be achieved with most paints anyway when priming is not needed. does this make all paints " paint and primer in one"? if this were a true paint and primer in one, you would assume that you would use one coat as a primer and two coats as a finish over any surface like the advertising suggest. it is not marketed that way and the data sheets do not support this either.


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## RH

Ok, maybe I should clarify a bit more. What I'm trying to find out is more of how to *explain* to a HO why I don't use Behr. Of course I prefer not paying for product up front and rarely do, on the occasions I must for some reason, I explain to the client and up my deposit to reflect the added cost I must carry. 

Thanks Mike, that is certainly helpful for explaining why "paint-n-primer in one" is a misnomer. So basically it comes down to overall value (quality of paint * cost) it seems. 

And although the premium plus actually covered quite well, HO paid $19 for a quart!


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## TJ Paint

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Behr


Holy crap its Capt-sheetrock!


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## TJ Paint

the op,

interior: less scrubability, durability, color/tinting uniformity from gallon to gallon

exterior: less % of solids, durability, color/tinting uniformity, adhesion, workability= more labor costs (higher prices for ho), 

Or just go with the flow and charge them more for it and don't offer any guarantees. The more you know about paints the more you could offer as far as info goes.


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## mustangmike3789

Gibberish45 said:


> Ok, maybe I should clarify a bit more. What I'm trying to find out is more of how to *explain* to a HO why I don't use Behr. Of course I prefer not paying for product up front and rarely do, on the occasions I must for some reason, I explain to the client and up my deposit to reflect the added cost I must carry.
> 
> Thanks Mike, that is certainly helpful for explaining why "paint-n-primer in one" is a misnomer. So basically it comes down to overall value (quality of paint * cost) it seems.
> 
> And although the premium plus actually covered quite well, HO paid $19 for a quart!


 wow, $19/qt. thats only $76/gal if you buy it by the quart. the advertising speaks louder than the pro painter in this case. if this is what they want then give it to them if they are supplying the paint. i wouldnt guarantee it and i would charge more for the hassles involved in the extra coats that may be needed. imo, behr is a cheap product that gives cheap results in most cases. i know people that swear by it but i have yet to find any standards of testing that prove any claims on their products performance. as i said, there are much better products at those prices.


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## jack pauhl

Want to hear my thoughts on it?


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## Capt-sheetrock

jack pauhl said:


> Want to hear my thoughts on it?


 Do tell,,,:thumbup:


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## Ole34

Jack is the Worlds foremost leading expert on cheap paint .............:whistling2:


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## JoseyWales

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Do tell,,,:thumbup:


I've used Behr Ultra premium or whatever their top line is called and it is as good as most paints on the market...Yes it does run like Aura but the learning curve is not too steep...Unfortunately most painters are still buried in the past..Past performance does not equal the product of today..That said I'm not a fan of shopping in those huge stores...I like the convenience of my local paint stores,not to mention the better deal on sundries.


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## straight_lines

Ole34 said:


> Jack is the Worlds foremost leading expert on cheap paint .............:whistling2:


 $36/gal isn't cheap.


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## Capt-sheetrock

JoseyWales said:


> I've used Behr Ultra premium or whatever their top line is called and it is as good as most paints on the market...Yes it does run like Aura but the learning curve is not too steep...Unfortunately most painters are still buried in the past..Past performance does not equal the product of today..That said I'm not a fan of shopping in those huge stores...I like the convenience of my local paint stores,not to mention the better deal on sundries.


 I agree with ya, till ya got to the sundries part. I buy most my paint from ICI, they deliver it and charge at the end of the month,,,, but they want 9 bucks for a power roller cover that Blowes sells for 2.50, and wallmart sells a roll of frog tape for 1/3 the price of ICI or SW. I guess its differant in every area,,, but there is no such thing as a cheap sundrie in North Carolina at a paint store.:no:


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## Ole34

straight_lines said:


> $36/gal isn't cheap.


 
i know...i was kiddin him a bit ...........gettin high is an understatement


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## PatsPainting

I wonder if the main reason why everyone here hates the paint is due to the deal with having to go to the box store to get it. Like some sort of complex disorder where you have to lower your self esteem and be seen at box store standing in line with over weight homeowners. I would think also all or most of the finish products we have seen that were finished with behr were done by the HO and look like chit. 

I wonder if Behr ever started to open up little small stores like our local paint ones would things change? I bet they would. 

I have never used any of the finish products, I have used their slow drying oil primers and have nothing at all to complain about. 

Pat


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## RH

Pat, I haven't gotten that vibe from the replies here. Mostly that the paint isn't worth the cost. The single experience I had with premium plus was good, but the price was outrageous. I could have bought Aura and saved the HO money.


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## PressurePros

Ole34 said:


> i know...i was kiddin him a bit ...........gettin high is an understatement


:lol::lol::lol:


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## chrisn

jack pauhl said:


> Want to hear my thoughts on it?


 
You wanna hear mine?:jester:


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## chrisn

PatsPainting said:


> I wonder if the main reason why everyone here hates the paint is due to the deal with having to go to the box store to get it. Like some sort of complex disorder where you have to lower your self esteem and be seen at box store standing in line with over weight homeowners. I would think also all or most of the finish products we have seen that were finished with behr were done by the HO and look like chit.
> 
> I wonder if Behr ever started to open up little small stores like our local paint ones would things change? I bet they would.
> 
> I have never used any of the finish products, I have used their slow drying oil primers and have nothing at all to complain about.
> 
> Pat


I think not, they are making billions of $ now marketing the paint and primer in one, why bother?:blink: Very few pros would go to any place that sells crap( except JP):whistling2:


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## Wood511

My suggestion is that you use the stuff and form your own opinion. Opinions will vary here...and mine is different from others. The regular Behr ($18 - $22) has been pretty good while the premium plus ($33) has performed quite poorly...but that's just me. 

Generally speaking, it's lower performing paint and I try to discourage HO's from using it. However if we must do so, I give them two coats with the stuff at my price and then we either part ways or they ante up more $$$ if they want more coats.

The way my contract is structured, I really don't give a sh1t if they want me to paint lowfat milk on the walls.


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## cappaint

Make your own opinions on paint when you use it. I dont care what anyone says the behr paint and primer in 1 is awesome for interior use. And customers freakin love it.


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## TJ Paint

cappaint said:


> Make your own opinions on paint when you use it.
> good point
> 
> And customers freakin love it.


why do you think customers love it?

I can think of only 3 possibilities:

a) they have used it to paint a wall or two and were deluded into thinking the spotty one coat mess looked good

b) the millions of dollars in marketing this product focused on a specific demographic has been very successful

C) they were at the store getting some light bulbs and they decided to pick out paint colors there plus a and b above.


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## TERRY365PAINTER

I just painted two bed rooms and a master all rooms had dark base colors . Reds , green , grey all accent colors covered in 2 coats no problem. Right ! standing in line at home depot sucks , but if you wear whites and talk to people . You find work there . 32 a gal for ultra here in Austin tx 
I like using it for dark colors.


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## mr.fixit

as a repair guy I do not know a lot about applications but they flood tv with the primer and paint in one commercials and somehow they got the top ranking in paint from Consumer Reports. I believe they are advertising to the diy'ers but ho's see the ads also and believe it is a superior product. I get a lot of ho's coming in here with the Wagner sprayers and they want to know why they cannot paint as fast as the commercials on tv show. some people:no:


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## cappaint

TJ Paint said:


> why do you think customers love it?
> 
> I can think of only 3 possibilities:
> 
> a) they have used it to paint a wall or two and were deluded into thinking the spotty one coat mess looked good
> 
> b) the millions of dollars in marketing this product focused on a specific demographic has been very successful
> 
> C) they were at the store getting some light bulbs and they decided to pick out paint colors there plus a and b above.


 


D) They like the vivid colors and when applied professionally it looks good. I like it because I can roll right over spackled areas and it almost covers in one coat but I still do 2. Negatives:...the deep reds and dark blues usually take 3 coats....and their trim paint pretty much sucks.


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## Ole34

cappaint said:


> D) and their trim paint pretty much sucks.


 
to thick............goes on like glue


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## vermontpainter

If you find yourself talking too much with your customers and prospects about Behr paint, rather than spending alot of time worrying about how to educate them about behr paint, your energy might be spent tweaking the marketing plan to get to customers who want to talk about different brands of paint, the ones you prefer. You don't prefer behr, do you?


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## Workaholic

Behr's market place is to HO's, since HO's do not normally buy my paint I hardly ever use it so where it ranks or how it performs does not really effect me. I honestly think that people hate the box stores so much because they want to distance themselves from the diy market.


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## RH

vermontpainter said:


> If you find yourself talking too much with your customers and prospects about Behr paint, rather than spending alot of time worrying about how to educate them about behr paint, your energy might be spent tweaking the marketing plan to get to customers who want to talk about different brands of paint, the ones you prefer. You don't prefer behr, do you?


I assume this is addressed to me (op) so I will answer.

This actually rarely comes up, it just happened to twice in the past week, and both clients let me use my own paint regardless. One client was a cheap bastard but the other absolutely values quality over price, I was the second most expensive bid out of four. 

She simply had used Behr before on her own house and liked it, I told her I did not prefer it and she trusted my judgment. This was enough for her but maybe not for my next client.

I am a young guy (and look it) so I feel like I have to be perfect in my presentation. I may be paranoid but I think every HO is doubting my expertise because of my age. Thank you all for helping me fine tune my pitch :thumbup:


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## vermontpainter

Gibberish45 said:


> I assume this is addressed to me (op) so I will answer.
> 
> This actually rarely comes up, it just happened to twice in the past week, and both clients let me use my own paint regardless. One client was a cheap bastard but the other absolutely values quality over price, I was the second most expensive bid out of four.
> 
> She simply had used Behr before on her own house and liked it, I told her I did not prefer it and she trusted my judgment. This was enough for her but maybe not for my next client.
> 
> I am a young guy (and look it) so I feel like I have to be perfect in my presentation. I may be paranoid but I think every HO is doubting my expertise because of my age. Thank you all for helping me fine tune my pitch :thumbup:


"I'm sorry but that is not a product line we can stand behind" should do.


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## mustangmike3789

yes, behr paint is great to the average HO that uses it and has no problem with spending an entire weekend in one room to make it right. the average pro can make it work even better with some years of experience under their belts. the thing that i am looking for is a paint that can perfom with a painter that is on the move and getting paid for production. a production painter needs good tools and good paints that will allow them to produce good results without baby sitting the last 3 or 4 thousand sq/ft done hours ago. the average happy HO is just pleased with the new color even if it requires an extra coat and a few more gallons to make it right. that can not be accepted in a bridge span that is thirty thousand sq/ft. 1 or 2 mils can make or break a job when you are dealing with #'s like that. we can not afford to add extra coats on multimillion$ jobs so why should a HO or contractor be ok with this on a thousand dollar job.. money is money. like the old saying"time is money" imo "materials is money too". why would you not use a proven and tested product that has consistant results and a proven track record.


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## cappaint

mustangmike3789 said:


> yes, behr paint is great to the average HO that uses it and has no problem with spending an entire weekend in one room to make it right. the average pro can make it work even better with some years of experience under their belts. the thing that i am looking for is a paint that can perfom with a painter that is on the move and getting paid for production. a production painter needs good tools and good paints that will allow them to produce good results without baby sitting the last 3 or 4 thousand sq/ft done hours ago. the average happy HO is just pleased with the new color even if it requires an extra coat and a few more gallons to make it right. that can not be accepted in a bridge span that is thirty thousand sq/ft. 1 or 2 mils can make or break a job when you are dealing with #'s like that. we can not afford to add extra coats on multimillion$ jobs so why should a HO or contractor be ok with this on a thousand dollar job.. money is money. like the old saying"time is money" imo "materials is money too". why would you not use a proven and tested product that has consistant results and a proven track record.


 
Tell me why it sucks w/o generalizations.


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## mustangmike3789

where should we start?


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## BreatheEasyHP

I bought a used sprayer off of a painter once. He used BEHR a lot on exteriors...until he did his own house, which was peeling in different spots all over. He felt terrible about having applied it to so many houses. (Not sure which kind of BEHR he used.)

I've decided not to use BEHR. Here's why:

A bunch of people who's opinions I respect claim there's problems with it. They don't seem to have extremely concrete reasons, but _it's not worth risking putting up a product that may fail. _There's plenty of paints that get good professional reviews. 

Failing paint is no joke. Even if we don't have a watertite case against BEHR, _there's enough concern about the products that they just shouldn't be used. _This is especially true for exteriors. With the interior, the risk is really more that you'll waste your time, which may cost you money depending on how you bid the job. Is it worth the risk to you?

JP seems to have found certain applications for the Premium Plus Ultra. Great...I'll do more trials with paints once my company grows. For now, I'll play it as safe as possible. No gambling with my clients homes!


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## WisePainter

Dear H.O./ Potential client:

Although Behr has been awarded the highest National Consumer Awards year after year, I prefer to use materials provided by paint companies that vend from a specific location providing specific products.
The main reasons are these:

1) I have a long time business relationship with S.W. that spans back 12+ years. Sure I've had a few errors that caused minor 'hiccups' in my schedule, which were always remedied without my client incurring any extra fees or completely ruining the contract.
2) I have an actual full time on site S.W. sales rep. and a huge support staff that responds instantaneously to any issues that may arise.
3) as a long time S.W. contractor, my prices are the lowest possible, which i in turn pass on to my clients
4) having used S.W. exclusively for over a decade, i am familiar with their product line, assuring that i am never 'learning a new product' in your home.


While Behr is a 'best selling' paint, i can assure you that Home Depot cannot provide the Gold Standard level of personal care quite as effectively as a paint company that has over 140 years of history such as Sherwin Williams has.


let's not forget, much like many painting companies, Home Depot rode the wave of the housing bubble to grow into what now, during the fallout appears to be a 'top heavy' company.


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## LA Painter

I just tell them Consumer Reports only tests “Consumer Grade” products. They don’t rate professional, or commercial grade products. That’s usually all I need to say.


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## NCPaint1

I have Behr Ultra on my front door ( previous owner ) Pre primed fiberglass door....peeling in sheets, and its under a huge porch so it gets no, or very little weathering. The home was built in 2008...so im assuming it was painted around then. I guess 3 years is a lifetime in Behr lingo...........


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## BreatheEasyHP

NCPaint1 said:


> I guess 3 years is a lifetime in Behr lingo...........


That's why they don't provide healthcare to their employees.


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## jack pauhl

Gibberish45 said:


> And does anyone have experience with the premium plus line specifically as it is newer?


Premium Plus was out before Premium Plus Ultra. Ultra is the newest but its been out for over 5 years, close to 6. 

I have Ultra exterior on a cedar shake rental house painted when Ultra came out. There is no peeling paint so far, no mildew and the house still has sheen. Pretty. Darn. Impressive.


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## Capt-sheetrock

I have no problem with Behr,,,, but then again I have "sheetrock" in my screen-name,,,,, so what could I possible know about paint????


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## Precision-TBay

I dont mind some of the behr interior paints, but their stains are crap and dont hold up at all.


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## Softy

After 2-3 yrs you can actually peel off the paint in chunk all the way down to plasterboard and even the plaster will come loose with the paint. If you inspect the plaster underneath you'll notice it's very soft and flaky. This will happen to either flat or semi with primer underneath. I can tell you from my experienced in basic chemistry this indicated that the paint has too much of either silicate or phosphate. That's because silica or phosphate will precipitate calcium and prevent it from bonding together. I did however, took the dry flat Behr paint that I grind into powder and tested for phosphate and it throw me off the chart. 
My "speculation" is that Behr is using some kind of phosphorus base substance as paint additive. Ofcourse, these are the cheapest sources and very rich in phosphate and/or silicate. Unlike most high quality paint that derived from crude oil and then use mineral clay to build its cosistency, I think Behr is using a cheaper mix such as phosphorus vocalnic ashes.


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## Softy

NCPaint1 said:


> I have Behr Ultra on my front door ( previous owner ) Pre primed fiberglass door....peeling in sheets, and its under a huge porch so it gets no, or very little weathering. The home was built in 2008...so im assuming it was painted around then. I guess 3 years is a lifetime in Behr lingo...........


So funny I just got through with the post about Behr peel within 2-3 yrs. I guessed your guy find it to be about the same life span of this product. Unfortunately most painter never get to see it result down the road. They just paint get their money and run away.


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## seacleaner

To address the behr paint question.. I have had my [email protected]# burned using there interior wall paints because the HO purchased it. On two different occasions I had the displeasure of using there products the first time was cutting and rolling ceilings I bid for 2 coats, it took 4 because the paint would dry so fast you could not even roll back into it with the a/c going. On the last coat I ran down to BM came back and finished the ceilings in 1 coat with BM. I have had this happen again for the same reason even added h20 to slow down the dry time and it made it no difference. stick with what you know works!!


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## bikerboy

Personally, I like some of their products. 

Its just like working with any other manufacturer. You learn what lines work and which don't.


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## RCP

bikerboy said:


> Its just like working with any other manufacturer. You learn what lines work and which don't.


I agree with this. We only used it one time and Rob did not like it, but there were several issues that may turned out differently if it was a product used regularly. 
To me, it's the hassle of going into the big box as opposed to calling in and having it delivered or easy pick up. Ok if you only need a few gallons, but most of our jobs are 50-60 gallons.


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## bikerboy

RCP said:


> I agree with this. We only used it one time and Rob did not like it, but there were several issues that may turned out differently if it was a product used regularly.
> To me, it's the hassle of going into the big box as opposed to calling in and having it delivered or easy pick up. Ok if you only need a few gallons, but most of our jobs are 50-60 gallons.


At that level, they will kiss your butt and they do deliver 50 or more gallons. But is it worth it when you already have products you use and trust? (that's a retorical question, I know the answer)


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## straight_lines

If Behr would get serious about catering to contractors I would consider using more of their paint. 

They need a paint kiosk away from everything in the store, and near the door or better yet a store separate from Home Depot. Getting in and out with what I need is important. They should also stock professional sundries, and tools. 

Like Dale said they do have some lines that are acceptable quality and easy to work with.


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## Rcon

bikerboy said:


> Personally, I like some of their products.


That right there is blasphemous enough to warrant signature status :jester:


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## bikerboy

Rcon said:


> That right there is blasphemous enough to warrant signature status :jester:


 

Never claimed to be the sharpest knife in the drawer. :thumbsup:


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## BreatheEasyHP

seacleaner said:


> To address the behr paint question.. I have had my [email protected]# burned using there interior wall paints because the HO purchased it. On two different occasions I had the displeasure of using there products the first time was cutting and rolling ceilings I bid for 2 coats, it took 4 because the paint would dry so fast you could not even roll back into it with the a/c going. On the last coat I ran down to BM came back and finished the ceilings in 1 coat with BM. I have had this happen again for the same reason even added h20 to slow down the dry time and it made it no difference. stick with what you know works!!


In the future, test a small batch using Floetrol or XIM extender instead of water. I usually prefer the XIM.


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## jack pauhl

I spent the day on a repaint spreading BEHR Ultra Satin on trim and doors and that paint is BY FAR the easiest paint to spread. Its fast, effortless coverage even with white, stays wet and dries fast for recoating. I painted 7 windows in a sunroom, crown and baseboard, entry door and 2 slider doors twice today. Actually in about 2.5 hours. That BEHR ULTRA looks like oil as far as leveling goes within in minutes after application. It spreads like a thin fast oil. It ranks high on my list for an overall great experience.


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## JoseyWales

jack pauhl said:


> I spent the day on a repaint spreading BEHR Ultra Satin on trim and doors and that paint is BY FAR the easiest paint to spread. Its fast, effortless coverage even with white, stays wet and dries fast for recoating. I painted 7 windows in a sunroom, crown and baseboard, entry door and 2 slider doors twice today. Actually in about 2.5 hours. That BEHR ULTRA looks like oil as far as leveling goes within in minutes after application. It spreads like a thin fast oil. It ranks high on my list for an overall great experience.


Ever try the semi-gloss? Most of my customers want the semi for doors and trim...S Gloss usually doesn't cover as well as satin or eggshell...I'd be willing to give it a try as the eggshell was good paint,or as good as most higher end paints...I wasn't a fan of the odour though.


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## straight_lines

My concern would be hardness after it cured. Kinda important for trim.


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## Rcon

jack pauhl said:


> I spent the day on a repaint spreading BEHR Ultra Satin on trim and doors and that paint is BY FAR the easiest paint to spread. Its fast, effortless coverage even with white, stays wet and dries fast for recoating. I painted 7 windows in a sunroom, crown and baseboard, entry door and 2 slider doors twice today. Actually in about 2.5 hours. That BEHR ULTRA looks like oil as far as leveling goes within in minutes after application. It spreads like a thin fast oil. It ranks high on my list for an overall great experience.


 I smell a kickback :jester:


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## RH

Rcon said:


> I smell a kickback :jester:


If there is a company out there paying for internet posts sign me up! :thumbup:


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## bigjeffie61520

jack pauhl said:


> I spent the day on a repaint spreading BEHR Ultra Satin on trim and doors and that paint is BY FAR the easiest paint to spread. Its fast, effortless coverage even with white, stays wet and dries fast for recoating. I painted 7 windows in a sunroom, crown and baseboard, entry door and 2 slider doors twice today. Actually in about 2.5 hours. That BEHR ULTRA looks like oil as far as leveling goes within in minutes after application. It spreads like a thin fast oil. It ranks high on my list for an overall great experience.


i have used ultra semi w/ good results

helps to add water now & then


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## Bender

jack pauhl said:


> I spent the day on a repaint spreading BEHR Ultra Satin on trim and doors and that paint is BY FAR the easiest paint to spread. Its fast, effortless coverage even with white, stays wet and dries fast for recoating. I painted 7 windows in a sunroom, crown and baseboard, entry door and 2 slider doors twice today. Actually in about 2.5 hours. That BEHR ULTRA looks like oil as far as leveling goes within in minutes after application. It spreads like a thin fast oil. It ranks high on my list for an overall great experience.


The thing is...
its not about _your_ experience:no:


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## Rcon

Gibberish45 said:


> If there is a company out there paying for internet posts sign me up! :thumbup:


Apparently beher is. Reading how JP just butters it up is enough to convince me he's getting something back for his posts about their paint. Especially how he has to capitalize the paints name - dead giveaway as far as i'm concerned. But you're a super secret beher promoter too so whatevs. :jester:


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## jack pauhl

Rcon said:


> Apparently beher is. Reading how JP just butters it up is enough to convince me he's getting something back for his posts about their paint. Especially how he has to capitalize the paints name - dead giveaway as far as i'm concerned. But you're a super secret beher promoter too so whatevs. :jester:


I wish! I only throw them out there because I use BEHR Ultra regularly and my results, experience with it is nothing at all how people on here talk it down. The stuff really amazes me. They made ULTRA stupid simple to use for a DIY'r so in the hands of someone who knows how to move paint, its purely pleasant to use.

I never received a dime from any company at any time, ever. Hell, I dont even get freebies like many do on here. There is no persuading me to talk about a product, I do it soley on merit.


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## bigjeffie61520

now that somebody said it, what is the deal w/ taking the time to capitalize BEHR Ultra?

that is kind of funky...Also, i would like to see all of that get painted twice in 2.5 hrs, in more than just a hit and run video.

having said all that, i do think ultra is a good paint. my experience w/ it doesnt earn the raves, but it is right there w/ similarly priced sw & bm products

for some reason, i like the smell of it


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## jack pauhl

bigjeffie61520 said:


> now that somebody said it, what is the deal w/ taking the time to capitalize BEHR Ultra?
> 
> that is kind of funky...Also, i would like to see all of that get painted twice in 2.5 hrs, in more than just a hit and run video.
> 
> having said all that, i do think ultra is a good paint. my experience w/ it doesnt earn the raves, but it is right there w/ similarly priced sw & bm products
> 
> for some reason, i like the smell of it


I'm pretty good about detail. BEHR is spelled in CAPs. If you read some of my posts... I spell Sherwin Williams and Benjamin Moore just like they're represented too. Don't forget Glidden.


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## jack pauhl

Jeffie. I am an insanely fast painter. You'd probably **** if you saw what I just painted in the past 2 hrs. with Sherwin Williams Super Paint. Not to sound all chest pounding but I have a rockin system.


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## bigjeffie61520

jack-you brushed all that out in 2.5 hrs, twice??


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## jack pauhl

bigjeffie61520 said:


> jack-you brushed all that out in 2.5 hrs, twice??


Yep. I'm telling ya... BEHR ULTRA Satin is smoking fast to apply. No drag whatsoever. I applied it over Zinsser ODORLESS primer. Windows are cased and recessed but not the window itself. Door is 9 lite one side. 2 panel sliding closet doors. No roller.


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## TERRY365PAINTER

Yeah just painted a bunch of 2 and 3 colored bedrooms last week used Behr ultra satin and just did a job using 1610 Kelly Moore same thing bedrooms multi colored rooms . Now I have been using KM forever walls here in Austin are mostly knock down texture . With really bad stress cracks and tape / float jobs .
Using a paint with low to no sheen is a must . I hate to say it but the Behr really out pro formed the KM . In terms of brush ability coverage and dry time . It would be better though if Behr just got their own store or something . Trying it on trim or exteriors will take some time , but curious 
It would be hard to beat km 1245 or their 1930 hybrid oil/latex enamel.


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## RH

There sure are a lot of Behr employees hanging around on PT..... :thumbup:


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## NCPaint1

Gibberish45 said:


> There sure are a lot of Behr employees hanging around on PT..... :thumbup:


All your cronies :whistling2: :jester:


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## jack pauhl

NCPaint1 said:


> All your cronies :whistling2: :jester:


I use some Benjamin Moore too NC... so don't feel left out.


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## straight_lines

But you don't ever post about how wonderful it is.


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## TJ Paint

straight_lines said:


> But you don't ever post about how wonderful it is.


I think he enjoys the contrariness of it.


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## NCPaint1

jack pauhl said:


> I use some Benjamin Moore too NC... so don't feel left out.


Jack you missed the earlier thread. There were a bunch of one post wonders in a Behr thread, so I assumed they were all Behr employees :jester: Thats why I said that, thought he was one too :yes:


----------



## jack pauhl

straight_lines said:


> But you don't ever post about how wonderful it is.


Right.


----------



## jack pauhl

NCPaint1 said:


> Jack you missed the earlier thread. There were a bunch of one post wonders in a Behr thread, so I assumed they were all Behr employees :jester: Thats why I said that, thought he was one too :yes:


Yeah I caught wind of that. This is a marketers haven. Ever notice those scripted Purdy brush remarks plaguing the Internet? If Scott ever does that I will slap him.


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## straight_lines

jack pauhl said:


> Right.


Why not?


----------



## jack pauhl

straight_lines said:


> Why not?


No wow factor like the example below. 

I had the chance to spray for the first time ever... BEHR Premium Plus Semi-Gloss. I shot 5 gallons on trim and doors. That paint is by far the best paint I ever sprayed. It was stock white over MDF trim and doors, one coat left a very nice semi gloss finish and coverage was as if it was shot twice. We could very easily leave it as is but I am shooting the house again tomorrow.

I can say this about it so far, I shot with a FFT210 and the paint shoots effortlessly, stays wet edged on large surfaces like a panel wall, doors etc. It atomizes so damn fine the finish looks like jolly rancher candy. Its like glossy glass and perfectly smooth. The coverage shooting baseboard was unlike any other paint I sprayed. I made quick single passes into and out of corners where everything the sprayer hit was covered perfectly. No light spots, no grayish areas and not a thing that needed hit again. It sprayed into tight corners effortlessly with solid coverage.

I kept saying the whole time how nice it was to spray. I was actually shocked because how so many people bash on it. So that makes me wonder why people on here are having trouble with it, or didnt like it when I am sitting here thinking that is the best paint I ever sprayed. I really cant say it enough... the results were very surprising to me.

That is really all I know about it so far.


----------



## RH

Jack I'm willing to wager most of the people who don't like Behr have held this opinion for long enough that they have never tried the PP Ultra. 

Anyone here test the Ultra and not like it?


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## straight_lines

I have. I wasn't wowed like JP. Maybe I have lived a fuller life. :jester:


----------



## jack pauhl

straight_lines said:


> I have. I wasn't wowed like JP. Maybe I have lived a fuller life. :jester:


Ha! Yep I can talk all day long about Ultra. This house we are doing is all done in BEHR just so i can put the whole BEHR thing to rest. I wanted to see for myself what all the grief was about. The ceiling paint was nice too, very white tho, I tend to like ceilings a bit dirty white but not blue or grey. BEHR's white is a pure white. 

We were brushing some older stock white Premium Plus a few weeks back and it was slow to spread and not all that thrilled so I'll see what this new 5 brushes like in comparison. 

What is your favorite for a semi-gloss trim today? I still like Satin Impervo WB and Premium Plus ranks up with similarities when spraying but I do think PP beats the hell out of it for coverage at low millage.


----------



## straight_lines

It depends JP, but I don't do hardly any NC so most of the trim I paint already has four plus coats on it. If I were painting that crapola primer on MDF all day like you do I may love ultra as well.

The best finish right now IMO is BM advance, closest thing to Impervo Oil you will see. I am in a different market than you however, and probably charge a lot more to paint trim.  

How does Ultra hold up in terms of longevity? How hard does it get? Those are things that are as important to me as production is to you.


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## jack pauhl

straight_lines said:


> It depends JP, but I don't do hardly any NC so most of the trim I paint already has four plus coats on it. If I were painting that crapola primer on MDF all day like you do I may love ultra as well.
> 
> The best finish right now IMO is BM advance, closest thing to Impervo Oil you will see. I am in a different market than you however, and probably charge a lot more to paint trim.
> 
> How does Ultra hold up in terms of longevity? How hard does it get? Those are things that are as important to me as production is to you.


I used ULTRA exterior first before interior so I do not have any solid evidence on longevity but I did do a scratch test the next day using a sharp point screw back n forth over the door and it did not break the surface of BEHR Ultra Satin. Was sort of surprised because one might think that over night is a bit soon to wash fresh paint not to mention go crazy trying to scratch it.

That small test was one coat over a previously painted door.

I'm doing more repaints now than anything, commercial stuff coming in too. Been doing commercial jobs lately. I cant keep track really... seems we show up, set up and its time to go to the next. Jobs are at that point where you cant remember what you did a couple days ago. Just so much going on all at once.... like a big blur. I'm beat and the heat is not helping at all.


----------



## ReNt A PaInTeR

Gibberish45 said:


> Anyone here test the Ultra and not like it?


My BM Dealer did this test against Behr Ultra Paint and primer in One and SW Duration Home


----------



## Capt-sheetrock

This thread is now 5 pages long,,,

It comes down to TWO things

1) pro painters don't like behr, cause they have to go pick it up
2) pro painters don't like behr cause they have to pay for it in advance


----------



## jack pauhl

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> My BM Dealer did this test against Behr Ultra Paint and primer in One and SW Duration Home


I am telling you right now that is BS. Shame on you Benjamin Moore! That is almost laughable and Benjamin Moore knows that does not represent the truth. Seriously, BEHR ULTRA covers black (piece of cake)!


----------



## jack pauhl

Those samples of BEHR ULTRA are one coat. 

Note to Benjamin Moore.... you keep pushing me further and further away from looking at you as a reputable paint company like I did 20 years ago. If you had products I felt outperformed my favs... I promise I would talk about them like I do my favs. 

I'm fairly certain I video taped our BEHR, Sherwin Williams and ICI tests. I'll be sure to post them if I did so everyone can see the truth right before their own eyes.


----------



## mustangmike3789

jack pauhl said:


> Those samples of BEHR ULTRA are one coat.
> 
> Note to Benjamin Moore.... you keep pushing me further and further away from looking at you as a reputable paint company like I did 20 years ago. If you had products I felt outperformed my favs... I promise I would talk about them like I do my favs.
> 
> I'm fairly certain I video taped our BEHR, Sherwin Williams and ICI tests. I'll be sure to post them if I did so everyone can see the truth right before their own eyes.


I would be interested in seeing your results on video. On your test panels above,what was your "control"? Is that drywall with one coat of primer? If so, what type of primer was used. I've often thought of conducting my own test with some of the leading paint brands. Did the spray paint bleed through after the paint was dry/cured.


----------



## jack pauhl

mustangmike3789 said:


> I would be interested in seeing your results on video. On your test panels above,what was your "control"? Is that drywall with one coat of primer? If so, what type of primer was used. I've often thought of conducting my own test with some of the leading paint brands. Did the spray paint bleed through after the paint was dry/cured.


Yes its bare drywall with a Sherwin Williams primer. I do not know which, store employees primed these sample boards. 

I encourage anyone to do their own testing. There was no bleed on 1st but Duration Home and ICI Diamond did bleed. Actually neither covered the black much on the first coat. This is all on my site.

To be honest, I do not care who made the BEHR ULTRA product even tho its a brand under MASCO. It could be Walmart for all I care and I would truck my ass there to buy it. It works and I continue to buy it and I care less if the person mixing that paint knows a damn thing about painting. 

I am all about product that simply works. Like Krud Kutter for example. Today we had a 1500 sq ft house to wash nicotine off. Spray on - wipe off. Simple! Then I trust Zinsser BIN to prime the ceilings because it simply does that job well. Sure it stinks but it is a fail safe solution to me and I trust it. And I trust BEHR ULTRA to coat those walls in one coat after we washed them because this is a house for sale and the HO only wants to pay for one coat.


----------



## straight_lines

jack pauhl said:


> I am telling you right now that is BS. Shame on you Benjamin Moore! That is almost laughable and Benjamin Moore knows that does not represent the truth. Seriously, BEHR ULTRA covers black (piece of cake)!


Snip.. In all fairness you didn't test BM in that and it wasn't the same red. If you want to really see if it has merit you would find out the color they were using and try it yourself. 

Also what red was that you used? A Behr color?

Edit you should also include a test for color accuracy.


----------



## mustangmike3789

jack pauhl said:


> Yes its bare drywall with a Sherwin Williams primer. I do not know which, store employees primed these sample boards.
> 
> I encourage anyone to do their own testing. There was no bleed on 1st but Duration Home and ICI Diamond did bleed. Actually neither covered the black much on the first coat. This is all on my site.
> 
> To be honest, I do not care who made the BEHR ULTRA product even tho its a brand under MASCO. It could be Walmart for all I care and I would truck my ass there to buy it. It works and I continue to buy it and I care less if the person mixing that paint knows a damn thing about painting.
> 
> I am all about product that simply works. Like Krud Kutter for example. Today we had a 1500 sq ft house to wash nicotine off. Spray on - wipe off. Simple! Then I trust Zinsser BIN to prime the ceilings because it simply does that job well. Sure it stinks but it is a fail safe solution to me and I trust it. And I trust BEHR ULTRA to coat those walls in one coat after we washed them because this is a house for sale and the HO only wants to pay for one coat.


I would like to see more testing myself and I may do that with a control over drywall and wood,primed and painted over different types of problems such as markers, dark paint and light paint. It is unfortunate that we have to provide our own testing results. Most reputable paints do have independent test ran on them such as astm testing for adhesive, salt fog and flex.


----------



## vermontpainter

Coverage is important, but there are oth important criteria. Not talking spatter or hat banding either. In deep base from any manufacturer, one of the biggest indicators to me in testing is metamorism.


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## PatsPainting

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> My BM Dealer did this test against Behr Ultra Paint and primer in One and SW Duration Home



Damn that's amazing :thumbsup: going to print this out and show my customers

Pat


----------



## PatsPainting

vermontpainter said:


> one of the biggest indicators to me in testing is metamorism.


For those who are like me and only have a 4th grade education. Here is a shortcut to look up metamorism Short Cut to the word metamorism.

Pat


----------



## vermontpainter

PatsPainting said:


> For those who are like me and only have a 4th grade education. Here is a shortcut to look up metamorism Short Cut to the word metamorism.
> 
> Pat


You are more mature than me though.


----------



## RCP

PatsPainting said:


> For those who are like me and only have a 4th grade education. Here is a shortcut to look up metamorism Short Cut to the word metamorism.
> 
> Pat


Thanks Pat, I had to google that too! This cleared it right up!


> Color matches made in the paint industry are often aimed at achieving a spectral color match, as well as a tristimulus (metameric) color match. A spectral color match attempts to give two colors the same spectral reflectance characteristic, making them a good metameric match with a low degree of metamerism, and thereby reducing the resulting color match's sensitivity to changes in illuminant, or differences between observers.
> [edit]


----------



## vermontpainter

I visited one of my favorite manufacturers a few years ago and had the very good fortune of seeing the great lengths they go to in building quality bases of paint. It's impressive. It's not just a bunch of raw materials thrown in a can of paint and shaken up.


----------



## Wolfgang

These Behr bashing threads are getting as old as the paint cost threads. Look, just use what you like, what your customer is willing to pay for. In all my years of painting, I've never verbally put down another manufacturer's product. When customers ask me why I use a certain brand, I just let them know that I have confidence in it and that experience has proven to me that it works.


----------



## chrisn

Wolfgang said:


> These Behr bashing threads are getting as old as the paint cost threads. Look, just use what you like, what your customer is willing to pay for. In all my years of painting, I've never verbally put down another manufacturer's product. When customers ask me why I use a certain brand, I just let them know that I have confidence in it and that experience has proven to me that it works.


 
Never? Not even talking to yourself?


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## Wolfgang

Got me on that one Chris. I suppose I should have said within earshot of the customer. Talk to myself all the time.


----------



## cappaint

jack pauhl said:


> Yes its bare drywall with a Sherwin Williams primer. I do not know which, store employees primed these sample boards.
> 
> I encourage anyone to do their own testing. There was no bleed on 1st but Duration Home and ICI Diamond did bleed. Actually neither covered the black much on the first coat. This is all on my site.
> 
> To be honest, I do not care who made the BEHR ULTRA product even tho its a brand under MASCO. It could be Walmart for all I care and I would truck my ass there to buy it. It works and I continue to buy it and I care less if the person mixing that paint knows a damn thing about painting.
> 
> I am all about product that simply works. Like Krud Kutter for example. Today we had a 1500 sq ft house to wash nicotine off. Spray on - wipe off. Simple! Then I trust Zinsser BIN to prime the ceilings because it simply does that job well. Sure it stinks but it is a fail safe solution to me and I trust it. And I trust BEHR ULTRA to coat those walls in one coat after we washed them because this is a house for sale and the HO only wants to pay for one coat.


 
Props for speaking your mind and trusting your own eyes over the propaganda you hear about behr. I used behr ultra for 2 years str8 and had awesome results from it. Im currently using duration and I like that too. Duration may go on smoother but behr def. covers spackled areas better. After 2 coats with duration you can still see some flashing. The Duration also takes 3 coats for really dark colors just like any other paint.

And the pita of going into home depot is so exaggerated. There are some dopes there and some efficient knowledgeable people just like at SW. Either way there mixing system is built specifically to be dope-proof. I have never gotten the wrong color in years and years.


----------



## chrisn

Wolfgang said:


> Got me on that one Chris. I suppose I should have said within earshot of the customer. Talk to myself all the time.


 
Me too. My mom always used to say it was OK to talk to yourself as long as you don't answer.


----------



## RCP

or argue with yourself.......


----------



## DeanV

I stopped arguing with myself since i always lost.


----------



## Rob

DeanV said:


> I stopped arguing with myself since i always lost.


Only time I win at my house.


----------



## chrisn

Rob said:


> Only time I win at my house.


 :blink::yes::yes:
I know that feeling!


----------



## jack pauhl

straight_lines said:


> Snip.. In all fairness you didn't test BM in that and it wasn't the same red. If you want to really see if it has merit you would find out the color they were using and try it yourself.
> 
> Also what red was that you used? A Behr color?
> 
> Edit you should also include a test for color accuracy.


I have not experienced any notable variations with ULTRA in a wide range of colors since I've been using it. Coverage is outstanding. Difference between my test review and BEHR's or Benjamin Moore or Sherwin Williams or Consumer Reports is that I publish the full details how the test was performed. 

The color I used was a color match to a SW color which Duration Home should have excelled at. Color accuracy was best in the BEHR mix over SW own mix in their paint. No surprise there. Details are on the review page.


----------



## jack pauhl

BEHR focuses on two products for interior painting and they both perform exceptionally good. Premium Plus and Premium Plus ULTRA. Take a look at Sherwin Williams for product lineup in comparison. I learned of another SW product yesterday I never knew existed. 

I had the opportunity to spend all of this past week using BEHR products and yesterday I used Premium Plus Satin Enamel. It is not uncommon to reduce almost every product we use on first coat to some degree and Premium Plus Satin was no exception. We reduced each 128 oz gallon by 12 ounces and applied the product.

It's pretty clear to me guys just want to bash on BEHR for kicks. If I could design the perfect paint to spread, mix 12 ounces of water into a gallon and you’ll know exactly what I mean by fast, no hassles and easy coverage.



This photo is the 1st coat dry cut by another guy with a Purdy XL Glide and you can see me coming into the cut with a Picasso for 2nd coat to sharpen the line. I'll add, the Picasso was fully capable of one coating Premium Plus on this job but the XL-Glide was not. I made some of the fastest cuts ever performed with the Picasso and Premium Plus yesterday.





Our test home had two coats of Sherwin Williams - Builder’s Premium Select Flat Latex Enamel in what appears to be plain white. The color change to Carmel required 5 gallons and is all we are testing for along with characteristics of the paint and the overall experience using it.


----------



## chrisn

Please explain the need or whatever to add 12 oz of water to any gallon of paint.


----------



## straight_lines

jack pauhl said:


> I have not experienced any notable variations with ULTRA in a wide range of colors since I've been using it. Coverage is outstanding. Difference between my test review and BEHR's or Benjamin Moore or Sherwin Williams or Consumer Reports is that I publish the full details how the test was performed.
> 
> The color I used was a color match to a SW color which Duration Home should have excelled at. Color accuracy was best in the BEHR mix over SW own mix in their paint. No surprise there. Details are on the review page.


I am gonna do some testing for the new site coming up on interior wall paints, and I will include Ultra in there. If what you say is true, and you don't have any variations with colors it is a remarkable paint. 

That is something I have always had to deal with no matter the paint, even Aura. Aura seems to perform better with hard to deal with colors, than with pastels and whites. 

After the issues I have witnessed with Duration home and reds I would never use it again for that. Other colors that aren't problematic I wouldn't hesitate, its a great wall paint.


----------



## jack pauhl

chrisn said:


> Please explain the need or whatever to add 12 oz of water to any gallon of paint.


Chris, only for speed. I need all paints to cut 7' in one brush load in under 8 seconds. That way I can be extremely efficient. I just cant see spending 2 or 3 days to paint something that takes 5 hours. 

I think the majority of paints are too thick today and that could be for coverage purposes. 12 ounces is nothing to a gallon. Premium Plus was dry to pole sand the walls in under 2 hours from applying it.


----------



## jack pauhl

straight_lines, I'll end up doing a detailed paint review on the Premium Plus from my perspective and the paint contractors perspective I performed the job with. He said, "All paint should perform like this". He must have been reading my mind because those were my exact thoughts too. 

We banged out a nice repaint on Friday in 2 coats with pure ease of use. I love those types of jobs where you show up, box it, tape it and paint without hassles. The coverage was simple and the paint was fast. He was rolling a high stairway wall when I was down on the steps cutting the stringer, no spatter that I noticed falling on me. 

As far as ULTRA goes, I still feel its the paint to beat and I am certain other paint manufacturers love to hate it. Let's see.... who has not to date jumped on the paint and primer in one band wagon? Just saw the new Glidden ad on tv last night. 

I'm pretty certain if ULTRA wasnt a thorn in the side, no one would notice its existence.


----------



## straight_lines

JP I would like to work together on this if possible, and reference each others results. I don't use enough Ultra to test the issues with different colors and bases I see.

I have used a lot of interior paint that is a pleasure to work with until you run into a certain color that give you fits. Its like working with a different paint, and all those great charastics go out the window. 

I am not doubting its ease of use. I would want to test durability, scrubbability, burnish resistance, and finish quality. Of course those things need to be tested after appropriate cure time.


----------



## jack pauhl

straight_lines said:


> JP I would like to work together on this if possible, and reference each others results. I don't use enough Ultra to test the issues with different colors and bases I see.
> 
> I have used a lot of interior paint that is a pleasure to work with until you run into a certain color that give you fits. Its like working with a different paint, and all those great charastics go out the window.
> 
> I am not doubting its ease of use. I would want to test durability, scrubbability, burnish resistance, and finish quality. Of course those things need to be tested after appropriate cure time.


Absolutely. I am working with a paint contractor locally and will be publishing more reviews from his perceptive and my own from products we test together. He's been painting 10 years longer than me and I value his opinion, his thoughts and his experiences despite our differences. We have a common goal however.

Jot down my number (its in my PT photo album), call anytime. I talk on the phone with other PT members. I look forward to working with others on testing products. Everyone benefits from it.


----------



## TJ Paint

jack pauhl said:


> Chris, only for speed. I need all paints to cut 7' in one brush load in under 8 seconds. That way I can be extremely efficient. I just cant see spending 2 or 3 days to paint something that takes 5 hours.
> 
> I think the majority of paints are too thick today and that could be for coverage purposes. 12 ounces is nothing to a gallon. Premium Plus was dry to pole sand the walls in under 2 hours from applying it.


so you're saying that by adding water, it allows you to paint something in 5 hours rather than 2-3 days? That's quite a leap, if that is what you're saying and an assertion I wouldn't buy, nothing personal.


----------



## DeanV

I would never test coverage over a builders flat, that is easy since the existing surface is soooooooo porous it really soaks up the paint and covers great. A well sealed or glossy surface is much harder to cover in one coat.


----------



## jack pauhl

DeanV said:


> I would never test coverage over a builders flat, that is easy since the existing surface is soooooooo porous it really soaks up the paint and covers great. A well sealed or glossy surface is much harder to cover in one coat.


Then it should be good to know Premium Plus went over a builder flat effortlessly without drag. Many paint drag incredibly bad over builder flats.


----------



## TJ Landry

LA Painter said:


> I just tell them Consumer Reports only tests “Consumer Grade” products. They don’t rate professional, or commercial grade products. That’s usually all I need to say.


So you essentially lie to them? CS tests ALL pro and HO grade paints. Painters seem to be beholden to corporate BS advertising and perks to use their paint. The fact is, many of the "evil" HO paints are the equal to brands such as Ben Moore who have been living off their reputations from days gone by. BM puts out a product like "Aura" and the rubes flock around it and declare it superior. I used it on several high end jobs and it flashed more than any brand Ive ever tried. Fast forward two weeks with a similar job. I ended up using SW a200. The result is that the less expensive SW product came out exactly the way the homeowner wanted.


----------



## Rcon

jack pauhl said:


> Premium Plus was dry to pole sand the walls in under 2 hours from applying it.


Can do that in under 45 minutes with ben. Just sayin

ETA - can also sand and recoat with Breeze, private estate, HP2000, hi hide in 1 hour (General Paint) 

Can sand and recoat in 1 hour with Super Eggshell (Cloverdale)

Dry time at ~6-9 mil wet between 20C and 25C R.H < 50%


----------



## nikmilo23

Anyone says behr is no good needs to rethink. We switched from benjamin moore to behr because we were unhappy how we were being treated. After meeting with the behr rep we made the switch. We found we ending up saving 2-3 dollars a gallon. And we roughly use 450-500 gallons a year. After using behr several times we found we liked the coverage and price. I have 12 years in the painting industry and i think behr is the future standard for paints. Btw you order minimum of 24 gallons they will deliver,mix the paint from behr manufacturing facility to ur job site free of charge.


----------



## TJ Paint

nikmilo23 said:


> Anyone says behr is no good needs to rethink. We switched from benjamin moore to behr because we were unhappy how we were being treated. After meeting with the behr rep we made the switch. We found we ending up saving 2-3 dollars a gallon. And we roughly use 450-500 gallons a year. After using behr several times we found we liked the coverage and price. I have 12 years in the painting industry and i think behr is the future standard for paints. Btw you order minimum of 24 gallons they will deliver,mix the paint from behr manufacturing facility to ur job site free of charge.


Well when you are working with razor thin margins, every penny matters. I'm happy for your 1-2k "savings" per year.


----------



## bikerboy

I've said it before. (likely in this thread) Berh makes some good products. 

I just absolutely hate Home Depot's customer service. If they had a chain of Berh "paint stores", I'd bet there would be many of the naysayers doing business there.


----------



## sagebrush123

Not too long ago I did a small interior project that consisted of a new fiberglass door. One side was to be stained to match interior existing stain and the other side to match existing patio colors of a two tone white(go figure).....the customer had already purchased the products......and I think I used the Behr ultra premium satin for ex/int.(built in primer)...I will say that it did brush out pretty smooth/loose.

In my personal experience, I have used Behr on other occasions enough to feel that I did not care for the product....seeing that it tends to be way too thick, with a tendency to sag and be something that I felt like was making me "work"....I did not thin it out that I can remember.

I also don't need the person behind the counter to "know" about paints, but it sure puts more confidence in me when I know someone is somewhat in the KNOW about painting.

I can go to SW for years and see the same faces, if I have some kind of curve ball that shows up in a job, or a question, issue, concern...I can get the answer/help pretty fast. I like the familiarity and the customer service. Not saying that I am a die hard SW person...there are not many choices in this city...PPG is approx. 1/2 hour away, in a different state.

I will say, that I will stay more open to experimenting with Behr(when that shows up), because in my experience, I did not like it, however, I am sure that from time to time they make adjustments to the formulation.

I think OVERALL- it is good to be versatile with a variety of products.
and in the ultimate, we as individual business's can make our own experiments, and choices.(as wolfgang stated)

Jack, happy to learn of some of your experiences, results, and sharing. I also like your abundant enthusiasm for being efficient! 

Just don't try to change me from Starbucks to McDonalds coffee anytime soon if that is coming next....


----------



## sagebrush123

my apologies to Gibberish, because you were the initial poster with the question of Behr products and translating information to clients about its performance or lack.


----------



## Mike's QP

jack pauhl said:


> Chris, only for speed. I need all paints to cut 7' in one brush load in under 8 seconds. That way I can be extremely efficient. I just cant see spending 2 or 3 days to paint something that takes 5 hours.
> 
> I think the majority of paints are too thick today and that could be for coverage purposes. 12 ounces is nothing to a gallon. Premium Plus was dry to pole sand the walls in under 2 hours from applying it.


 Dang Jack, how long are your damn arms? I can't pull a 7' line!


----------



## MuraCoat

Gibberish45 said:


> I assume this is addressed to me (op) so I will answer.
> 
> This actually rarely comes up, it just happened to twice in the past week, and both clients let me use my own paint regardless. One client was a cheap bastard but the other absolutely values quality over price, I was the second most expensive bid out of four.
> 
> She simply had used Behr before on her own house and liked it, I told her I did not prefer it and she trusted my judgment. This was enough for her but maybe not for my next client.
> 
> *I am a young guy (and look it) so I feel like I have to be perfect in my presentation. I may be paranoid but I think every HO is doubting my expertise because of my age.* Thank you all for helping me fine tune my pitch :thumbup:


Hey Gibberish, I am 51 y/o and have been painting since 1977... Now I understand?

*Quote by Gibberish45:* _"Just trying to keep it real around here, ya dig?"_

*Quote by Gibberish45:* _"I also am not easily offended which should probably be a general qualification for posting on PT"_

*Quote by Gibberish45: "*_I started at the bottom of the barrel spraying low income apartments"_

Yea I dig Kid. 'You have no respect for' and 'challenge a veteran in the business'! If you were on my job, you would be getting real quiet when you see my skill and what 36 years of exp can teach you.

BTW - I can pry too! 

Superior Painting Co. (my first company). and a pay stub from 1984... Prior to 1984, I have no pay stubs on file...


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## Painter-Aaron

MuraCoat said:


> Hey Gibberish, I am 51 y/o and have been painting since 1977... Now I understand?
> 
> *Quote by Gibberish45:* _"Just trying to keep it real around here, ya dig?"_
> 
> *Quote by Gibberish45:* _"I also am not easily offended which should probably be a general qualification for posting on PT"_
> 
> *Quote by Gibberish45: "*_I started at the bottom of the barrel spraying low income apartments"_
> 
> Yea I dig Kid. 'You have no respect for' and 'challenge a veteran in the business'! If you were on my job, you would be getting real quiet when you see my skill and what 36 years of exp can teach you.
> 
> *BTW - I can pry too!*


Obviously you found a BEHR thread:whistling2:


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## MuraCoat

Painter-Aaron said:


> Obviously you found a BEHR thread:whistling2:


Another strawman argument? Do you know what that means? 
It means, you are redirecting my argument and avoiding my point...

Typical!


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## Rbriggs82

Oh happy day another old Behr thread.


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## Painter-Aaron

Rbriggs82 said:


> Oh happy day another old Behr thread.


It would be nice to open up paint talk and not see 4 threads of people arguing over Behr. At first it was a bit entertaining now its just draining to see it go on and on


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## Oden

MuraCoat said:


> Hey Gibberish, I am 51 y/o and have been painting since 1977... Now I understand?
> 
> Quote by Gibberish45: "Just trying to keep it real around here, ya dig?"
> 
> Quote by Gibberish45: "I also am not easily offended which should probably be a general qualification for posting on PT"
> 
> Quote by Gibberish45: "I started at the bottom of the barrel spraying low income apartments"
> 
> Yea I dig Kid. 'You have no respect for' and 'challenge a veteran in the business'! If you were on my job, you would be getting real quiet when you see my skill and what 36 years of exp can teach you.
> 
> BTW - I can pry too!
> 
> Superior Painting Co. (my first company). and a pay stub from 1984... Prior to 1984, I have no pay stubs on file...


I started keeping stubs about ''96. Before that they weren't too important. I wish I had saved them all though. 
Them checks are like a journal.


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## RH

MuraCoat said:


> Another strawman argument? Do you know what that means?
> It means, you are redirecting my argument and avoiding my point...
> 
> Typical!



Why don't you take this private and just PM each other? I feel like I'm back teaching middle school.


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## CApainter

This is becoming unbehrable.

Sorry mudbone, but you've been slacking lately


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## Workaholic

I give this another 10 posts before the mods close it.


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## DeanV

how about 2?


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