# primer for nicotine stained ceilings and walls



## ltd

i always use cover stain lots of body stain blocking grip its the best .here's the thing im starting a house next week and the ho is a older lady and am concerned about the smell. has anybody used kilz low Oder oil primer and what do you think on the can it does not say anything about nicotine .also how does it grip to old semigloss oil alkyd 6 panel doors .im switching these over to water base. any other suggestions


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## Steve Richards

I'd stick with the oil Coverstain.

If she's concerned about the smell, suggest she go someplace else.

(unless you'd prefer she sit and watch you all day)


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## daArch

three letters is all you need to remember


B-I-N


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## Steve Richards

few more:

D-o-n-t-s-p-r-a-y-i-t-w-i-t-h-y-o-u-r-o-l-d-h-o-s-e


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## Lambrecht

Use coverstain hi- hide, it has lower voc's and covers better than the regular coverstain,


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## TJ Paint

did she create the nicotine stains via smoking? If so, why would she complain about the odor of alkyd based products?

Waterbased won't cut it. 

the other option would be to tsp and hand wash all the walls and ceilings.


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## Gough

TJ Paint said:


> did she create the nicotine stains via smoking? If so, why would she complain about the odor of alkyd based products?
> 
> Waterbased won't cut it.
> 
> the other option would be to tsp and hand wash all the walls and ceilings.


I've always been a "belt-and-suspenders" kind of guy, so I'd do the TSP wash in any case. That way, you could switch to a water-based primer and minimize the paint fume issue.

EDIT: Jack has pointed out that the TDSs for both BIN and Cover-Stain say NOT to use TSP to prep surfaces.


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## CliffK

I prefer the BIN over the cover stain. Obviously both will work, but I find if you use fans to exhaust the fumes while you are doing it the smell is basically gone by the time it is dry, which is super fast as you know. I find the cover stain odor lingers. I have tried the washing route and then some of the newer universal acrylic primer sealers that claim to do the job and I find them hit or miss. Bin and cover stain are still the sure things. Get her out of the house for the day-you'll both be happy you did. Best of luck


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## jack pauhl

Check out this bad nicotine job. Seniors job. We had them leave. Did not want to be recoating water-base primers. 

I'm on iPhone so unable to hyperlink text 
http://jackpauhl.blogspot.com/2010/03/zinsser-b-i-n-shellac-base-primer.html


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## bigjeffie61520

thanks for that note on prolonging the drying time Jack P.
I vote strongly for bin as well.


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## TJ Paint

jack pauhl said:


> Check out this bad nicotine job. Seniors job. We had them leave. Did not want to be recoating water-base primers.
> 
> I'm on iPhone so unable to hyperlink text
> http://jackpauhl.blogspot.com/2010/03/zinsser-b-i-n-shellac-base-primer.html


I'd just go with coverstain myself, its not as thin, I find it easier to work with, and seals bad stuff like nicotine just as good.

I'm not sure what the point of your link was JP. Just that you use bin on deals like this?

Also, why do you suggest the 4 hrs wait time for bin? Obviously, I suppose you feel it doesn't seal good until its fully dry?


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## jack pauhl

TJ Paint said:


> I'd just go with coverstain myself, its not as thin, I find it easier to work with, and seals bad stuff like nicotine just as good.
> 
> I'm not sure what the point of your link was JP. Just that you use bin on deals like this?
> 
> Also, why do you suggest the 4 hrs wait time for bin? Obviously, I suppose you feel it doesn't seal good until its fully dry?


Wondering if zinsser odorless might do the trick. Still has an oil smell tho. I'm at work so it was easier to post a link rather than a photo on my server at home. I wanted to show the level of staining when I tested it. 

When I do my tests i always follow the can first. So it was applied and waited whatever the can said and tried painting it. It felt dry but there was nothing white about the ceiling paint in just a few minutes after it was applied. Bleed thru bad. Waiting 4 hrs was the safest recoat for that job.


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## mistcoat

TJ Paint said:


> did she create the nicotine stains via smoking? If so, why would she complain about the odor of alkyd based products


That makes me laugh. Why is it usually the old lady who smokes a gazillion smokes a day that usually moans the most about the paint fumes.
Not the fact that I have to go home and cleanse myself for an hour in the shower after putting up with her stench 

I'm good with the Zin c/stain too :thumbsup:


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## ltd

thanks guys im going to go with cover stain . zinsser actually recommends this over bin for nicotine i was surprised . cover stain imo rolls better more body covers better am also switching oil 6 panels doors over to latex so i want to stay in one primer has anybody used kilz low Oder primer what do you think


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## TJ Paint

ltd said:


> anybody used kilz low Oder primer what do you think


i wasn't impressed. didn't block stain well at all. It didn't have much odor though.


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## bigjeffie61520

TJ Paint said:


> i wasn't impressed. didn't block stain well at all. It didn't have much odor though.


kilz low odor smells like shrimp to me

i have used bin 4 killing nicotine, as well as grease and food stains in a really nasty kitchen. It did a fantastic job.


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## jack pauhl

ltd said:


> thanks guys im going to go with cover stain . zinsser actually recommends this over bin for nicotine i was surprised . cover stain imo rolls better more body covers better am also switching oil 6 panels doors over to latex so i want to stay in one primer has anybody used kilz low Oder primer what do you think


Are you talking about using water-base CoverStain? We used BIN because we thought it would give us an immediate recoat turnaround.


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## Steve Richards

TJ Paint said:


> i wasn't impressed. didn't block stain well at all. It didn't have much odor though.


LOL

"Didn't work worth a crap, but it smelled ok"


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## ltd

jack. no i will use oil cover stain i thought that's all their was anyways . .on zinsser primer pamphlet they recommend it over bin .im not saying it is a joy to use but its a whole lot better then bin .im not a chemist and i dont play one on tv either but the oil does a better job of sealing out the tar and nicotine am still going to give it a once over with tsp. also cover stain holds paint better on trim. and if you get it on something theirs a fighting chance you can get it up.also i use a purdy nylon polyester brush imo its hands down better than a China brush in that it leaves fewer brush marks


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## Steve Richards

Some of the more respected members/painters say BIN (so in this instance I might have gone w/it), (oil)Coverstain's been my go-to primer/sealer/bonder for a long time.
I always have a gallon and a spray can of it in the truck.
Never had a problem of any kind with it (that I can remember anyhow), never found anything it won't cover, never had it not stick.

Although "familiarity" with a product, doesn't necessarily always make it the best choice.


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## Bender

One time I tried zinsser 123 on nicotine. It bled through the 1st coat but the label says thats okay, put on a 2nd coat, that will seal it.
So I did and painted the room but I could still see some stains, so I figured one more coat of paint should do it.
Well it didn't
So I had to kilz it and put on two more coats of paint.

7  coats and a lesson learned!


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## Steve Richards

My lessons usually get learned after 6 coats. [/brag]


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## jack pauhl

Ltd. Read the back of the can. If its not on your can, its on the TDS. No TSP


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## ltd

thanks jack your right just ran down to garage and looked at old can and its plain as day no tsp .


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## Gough

jack pauhl said:


> Ltd. Read the back of the can. If its not on your can, its on the TDS. No TSP


Jack, I checked the TDS for both BIN and Cover-Stain and they both say no TSP. Thanks for pointing that out, I'll modify my earlier post. It's been a few years since we've had to deal with a problem like the OP's and even longer since I read the TDS on either product. They both say to use ammonia-based cleaners. I wonder if this is a strict adhesion issue or one where they are trying to get people away from phosphate-based cleaners for other reasons.

Good reminder to re-read the labels and TDSs on a regular basis, since they seem to change even for the same product.


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## jack pauhl

Gough said:


> Jack, I checked the TDS for both BIN and Cover-Stain and they both say no TSP. Thanks for pointing that out, I'll modify my earlier post. It's been a few years since we've had to deal with a problem like the OP's and even longer since I read the TDS on either product. They both say to use ammonia-based cleaners. I wonder if this is a strict adhesion issue or one where they are trying to get people away from phosphate-based cleaners for other reasons.
> 
> Good reminder to re-read the labels and TDSs on a regular basis, since they seem to change even for the same product.


Its adhesion related.


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## TJ Paint

jack pauhl said:


> Its adhesion related.


they got substitute tsp cleaners now, premixed concentrate, I wonder if that would be ok. But yeah, You know, I was the first to mention tsp in this thread, so I apologize for possibly leading you astray with that. 

2 things. I guess when I say tsp, its kinda generic, as in use a good cleaner. 


Does anybody still use tsp on projects? I haven't for years, although I've used the substitute. http://housewares.hardwarestore.com/35-176-all-purpose-cleaners/liquid-tsp-substitute-291724.aspx


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## Gough

TJ Paint said:


> they got substitute tsp cleaners now, premixed concentrate, I wonder if that would be ok. But yeah, You know, I was the first to mention tsp in this thread, so I apologize for possibly leading you astray with that.
> 
> 2 things. I guess when I say tsp, its kinda generic, as in use a good cleaner.
> 
> 
> Does anybody still use tsp on projects? I haven't for years, although I've used the substitute. http://housewares.hardwarestore.com/35-176-all-purpose-cleaners/liquid-tsp-substitute-291724.aspx


I'll admit that I still use it once in a while. OTOH, I haven't had a job that called for that level of cleaning since I stopped painting in fraternities.


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## TJ Paint

I'd say its probably overkill to wash the walls down before coverstain/bin. I mean, if you take the step of washing, why mess with using an oil/shellac. In short, I wouldn't.


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## Capt-sheetrock

TJ Paint said:


> I'd say its probably overkill to wash the walls down before coverstain/bin. I mean, if you take the step of washing, why mess with using an oil/shellac. In short, I wouldn't.


 As a 3 pack a day smoker, i have found that re-painting with a flat "nicotine yellow" tinted paint solves the problem really well,,,, and no need to re-paint at all.


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## Different Strokes

Another really nice attribute of bin is it's ability to adhere to non-paintable silicone caulking. If you've ever been in that situation.


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## WESTERN Painting

If you can't use a TSP wash before using coverstain, what would you do in a situation like a greasy kitchen ceiling? Just soap and water? will coverstain bond to a somewhat greasy surface??? I would think it would not... or would there be a better option?


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