# Pro mar 400 zero voc eggshell



## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

We are painting an interior with 400 zero voc eggshell. The coverage is absolutely terrible. The majority of walls are off white satin. The walls are very lightly textured. With twelve different colors its taking extra time to get a third coat on most walls. Even light colors over white are taking 3 coats. Customer was very budget conscience for paint cost. Big mistake on our part. For 25$ tax and all per gallon we could have gone with either, kilz pro 330, glidden premium eggshell, hide plus egg from diamond vogel or superspec egg. Any of these paints would have covered in 2 coats but none of the stores were close or could deliver. Anybody else notice how terrible 400 is? Especially for that price. Shouldn't it be priced under 15 for how bad it is?


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## scottjr (Jan 14, 2012)

Isnt the 200 low voc around that price point. I used 400 once a few years ago and will never use it again.
Horrible...


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

200 zero is close to 29 total for us. We should have gone with it instead though both are overpriced.


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

My experience with the *200* zero voc is that it covered extremely well.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

I have only good things to say about 200 zero. 400 is ceiling paint at best. For 22-25$ a gallon BM Ultraspec would have been the best bet. 200 zero for 29$ is why SW is only good if you're a baller....:yes:

Disclosure: I am not a big baller, buying many thousands of gallons, but 29? I go to SW 3x a year and they give me way more love than that! That price warrants a talk to your SW store about pricing.


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## ttd (Sep 30, 2010)

Very happy with the 200 zero voc. Great coverage. Seems a little "shiny" to me, but we like it otherwise.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

kdpaint said:


> I have only good things to say about 200 zero. 400 is ceiling paint at best. For 22-25$ a gallon BM Ultraspec would have been the best bet. 200 zero for 29$ is why SW is only good if you're a baller....:yes:
> 
> Disclosure: I am not a big baller, buying many thousands of gallons, but 29? I go to SW 3x a year and they give me way more love than that! That price warrants a talk to your SW store about pricing.


27 plus tax is close to 29. I agree with you.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Even at 25-27 200 is overpriced given that super spec, ultra spec p&l gold, even kilz pro 330 cover better.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Cover better at a lower price.


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## scottjr (Jan 14, 2012)

ProWallGuy said:


> My experience with the 200 zero voc is that it covered extremely well.


I agree. I have had good results with the 200 low voc also. I don't use it often but haven't had any issues with covering.


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## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

scottjr said:


> I agree. I have had good results with the 200 low voc also. I don't use it often but haven't had any issues with covering.


We like the 200 but the best paint for the buck for us hands down is the Ultra spec from BM. I have no allegiance to them at all just call um like I paint um...


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

That does stink that SW was the only choice b/c of location, making you stuck with the H/Os price range. 3 coats is insane for regular colors. Sorry about that! Very frustrating.


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

Pro400 is only acceptable in a Tricorn Black pretinted 5'er in a flat sheen...used in home theater ceilings.

Silly painter, krap is for kidz!

Review noted, and appreciated.


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## scottjr (Jan 14, 2012)

thinkpainting/nick said:


> We like the 200 but the best paint for the buck for us hands down is the Ultra spec from BM. I have no allegiance to them at all just call um like I paint um...


I have been using Ben Moore alot lately, mostly the Ben line but I have used UltraSpec quite a bit and would recommend it for the price. I think I get the flat for about $20 and you can't beat it.


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

we use 200 zero voc with great luck ... for me i hate sw :yes: and would pay more for bm but we work all over and the store location is an issue


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Zoomer said:


> We are painting an interior with 400 zero voc eggshell. The coverage is absolutely terrible. The majority of walls are off white satin. The walls are very lightly textured. With twelve different colors its taking extra time to get a third coat on most walls. Even light colors over white are taking 3 coats. Customer was very budget conscience for paint cost. Big mistake on our part. For 25$ tax and all per gallon we could have gone with either, kilz pro 330, glidden premium eggshell, hide plus egg from diamond vogel or superspec egg. Any of these paints would have covered in 2 coats but none of the stores were close or could deliver. Anybody else notice how terrible 400 is? Especially for that price. Shouldn't it be priced under 15 for how bad it is?


 :yes:!


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

As FPoE loves to point out, "there is nothing more expensive than cheap paint". Bummer about your situation. I would never consider using 400 for a repaint, or anything other than possibly a ceiling I wanted to look flat, but If I was using SW I would probably use builders solution matte for that , as its their flattest flat. The 200 0 voc is a good paint for the price.


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## Red Truck (Feb 10, 2013)

Damon T said:


> As FPoE loves to point out, "there is nothing more expensive than cheap paint". Bummer about your situation. I would never consider using 400 for a repaint, or anything other than possibly a ceiling I wanted to look flat, but If I was using SW I would probably use builders solution matte for that , as its their flattest flat. The 200 0 voc is a good paint for the price.


Good quote - I use that one quite a bit with our clients. Needing a third coat / having incorrectly tinted paint from sw or....*cough* certain big box stores - that will not be our responsibility in the Very rare event that we use a non BM, customer supplied product.


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## matt19422 (Oct 2, 2009)

Blame it on the paint...... But I'm curious:

Have you ever used 400 zero egg before this job?
Did the walls have an existing sheen to them? 
If so did you degloss them so they would take the new coating?

Not for nothing but coverage has a lot to do with prep and technique.
I've watched my guys complain about coverage even with Aura, only to see that they were rushing the brush, or not being thorough in there method.

If the paint isn't covering, bring a rep out and get an explanation, and why your at it ask them why he/she is over charging you for $15.00 a gallon paint.


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

Zoomer said:


> We are painting an interior with 400 zero voc eggshell. The coverage is absolutely terrible. The majority of walls are off white satin. The walls are very lightly textured. With twelve different colors its taking extra time to get a third coat on most walls. Even light colors over white are taking 3 coats. Customer was very budget conscience for paint cost. Big mistake on our part. For 25$ tax and all per gallon we could have gone with either, kilz pro 330, glidden premium eggshell, hide plus egg from diamond vogel or superspec egg. Any of these paints would have covered in 2 coats but none of the stores were close or could deliver. Anybody else notice how terrible 400 is? Especially for that price. Shouldn't it be priced under 15 for how bad it is?


Using PM400 for an residential repaint seems chincy on your part. I use Superpaint or Cashmere for repaints and don't have the problems you speak of. PM400 is really for commercial or new construction when you need a low price, decent product. I highly doubt that it took more than two coats to cover those colors. Most likely not enough mil application from your painter or need to use a proper roller cover. I think you would have the same issues with the other choices you mentioned.


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

matt19422 said:


> Blame it on the paint...... But I'm curious:
> 
> Have you ever used 400 zero egg before this job?
> Did the walls have an existing sheen to them?
> ...


He said the walls are "satin and a very light texture. 

1. how do you degloss a textured wall? (I would use a primer that adheres to glossy surfaces).
2. ProMar 400 is garbage.
3. Why waste a reps time when YOU a professional painter, should be able to trouble shoot a basic painter 101 situation?


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

kdpaint said:


> That does stink that SW was the only choice b/c of location, making you stuck with the H/Os price range. 3 coats is insane for regular colors. Sorry about that! Very frustrating.


Very upsetting kd. Practically everything should cover in 2 coats, these days.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

Had a somewhat similar thing, but with crazy yellow color over dover white. Spec was for Glidden 350, and what I needed was Aura. 5 coats later, everyone finally agreed.:blink: Now I really stick to my own choice for paint.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

MuraCoat said:


> He said the walls are "satin and a very light texture.
> 
> 1. how do you degloss a textured wall? (I would use a primer that adheres to glossy surfaces).
> 2. ProMar 400 is garbage.
> 3. Why waste a reps time when YOU a professional painter, should be able to trouble shoot a basic painter 101 situation?


Agreed! Heck I can get america's finest or olympic to cover in 2 coats. 400 never again even if customer buys paint. Btw issues with super paint flashing on interior walls last year and issues with pro claasic semi oil 3 quarts and 3 different colors even though it was a cross-over for 1 behr color. Go figure 3 different colors for one formula from same store. Had no issues with ben moore, diamond vogel. Had one issue with behr all of 2012. Just not liking sw quality for the price. Too much profit margin for subpar quality.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

America's Finest? Oh my. I did a favor for my neighbor with some of that stuff. He had bought it. Wow. It blew. I think it was 10$ a gallon. Straight up, no discount...

I can see how 400 would compare...


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Right on par with 400. But wait. 400 is zero voc and is safer for us and it uses waterborne colorants. I'll take the smell of glycol colorants if it covers in two.


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## AztecPainting (Jan 28, 2010)

Zoomer said:


> We are painting an interior with 400 zero voc eggshell. The coverage is absolutely terrible. The majority of walls are off white satin. The walls are very lightly textured. With twelve different colors its taking extra time to get a third coat on most walls. Even light colors over white are taking 3 coats. Customer was very budget conscience for paint cost. Big mistake on our part. For 25$ tax and all per gallon we could have gone with either, kilz pro 330, glidden premium eggshell, hide plus egg from diamond vogel or superspec egg. Any of these paints would have covered in 2 coats but none of the stores were close or could deliver. Anybody else notice how terrible 400 is? Especially for that price. Shouldn't it be priced under 15 for how bad it is?


I have been a SW guy for the few years now, I've been sampled most of their paint and put it to use for all of my projects, I have awesome things to say about their paints and like everything in life, there's also bad experiences with some of their products.

First of all Promar 400 Zero is a step down from Promar 200 Zero quality wise, I would never use neither 400 or 200 Zero for off white colours. 

Promar 200 Zero is more than great for darker colours and deep bases, that's it, for $27 you can't go wrong as it is a great paint for the right application.

Promar 400 Zero is good for neutrals only and maybe a few darker colours.

Also noticed something about Promar 200 and 400 Zero, you gotta follow drying time and recoat time exactly how the label is telling you, if you are doing the second coat on the same day within a couple of hours cause you think is dry enough, it is most likely that you will have to do a third coat, and as a matter of fact, I learn that by trying it a few times because I was just about the production and trying to get done as much as I can in one day.

Also I would have spent a bit more on a better product for off white, maybe even Duration Matte or Emerald.

Just to add, I know for fact that Qualikote would have done a better job than Promar 400 Zero for off white and it is cheaper, you just gotta find what works best for that particular situation, that's why you get paid isn't it? Not all paints are made the same.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Not logical to wait a day in between coats. Not a single latex product from bm, p&l, vogel or behr that requires such dry time. Sorry just can't justify such nonsense from a paint. In the real world apply first coat let dry, usually an hour, apply a second coat and done.


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## AztecPainting (Jan 28, 2010)

Zoomer said:


> Not logical to wait a day in between coats. Not a single latex product from bm, p&l, vogel or behr that requires such dry time. Sorry just can't justify such nonsense from a paint. In the real world apply first coat let dry, usually an hour, apply a second coat and done.


Logic and common sense is a completely different animal, isn't it? I am just giving my input in what have worked and how it worked in the past. Isn't the reason why you asked a question? I wasn't expecting a jerk response...

BTW... I don't know any paint out there that the label says re-coat in an hour unless it's a quick dry, no wonder things don't work the way you want them to work.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

AztecPainting said:


> Logic and common sense is a completely different animal, isn't it? I am just giving my input in what have worked and how it worked in the past. Isn't the reason why you asked a question? I wasn't expecting a jerk response...
> 
> BTW... I don't know any paint out there that the label says re-coat in an hour unless it's a quick dry, no wonder things don't work the way you want them to work.


If you scratch the surface with your finger nail and its clean then its dried through and ready for a second coat. Sometimes its an hour simetimes its a couple of hours. Its just an average. Never had a problem following the rules set forth by the masters before me. Imo it is a performance issue of the material. Today applied dark purple over white dove eggshell. Used kilzpro 330. 2 coats with 70 minutes between coats. No transparency and yet less than 21 per gallon. Btw walls were slick, no texture. Lesson learned. Dont use 400 except for white over white in flat in ceilings.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

WisePainter said:


> Pro400 is only acceptable in a Tricorn Black pretinted 5'er in a flat sheen...used in home theater ceilings.




Did my first movie room in January, and used PM400 pretinted tricorn, I've been meaning to upload the pics here for a while, may do that. Spraying a popcorn ceiling from white to black sucks so hard.

Except for that pretinted black ceiling I never use 400. There is a significant drop in quality from the 200 to 400 not consistent with the price.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Gibberish45 said:


> Did my first movie room in January, and used PM400 pretinted tricorn, I've been meaning to upload the pics here for a while, may do that. Spraying a popcorn ceiling from white to black sucks so hard.
> 
> Except for that pretinted black ceiling I never use 400. There is a significant drop in quality from the 200 to 400 not consistent with the price.


Agreed


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Aztec, not wanting to come off as a jerk response, but as sarcasm and being a little POd about sw putting this terrible product out there. Your input is appreciated and respected.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Zoomer said:


> Aztec, not wanting to come off as a jerk response, but as sarcasm and being a little POd about sw putting this terrible product out there. Your input is appreciated and respected.


 Needs to behr with you!:yes:


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## fearthespur89 (Jan 18, 2013)

Zoomer as much as you complain about SW in just about all of your post why do you still use them? Just doesn't make much sense to me. As a painter you should know that TIME IS MONEY. Should of started with a higher grade product from the get go. The extra few $$$ would be well worth it.:thumbup:


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

MuraCoat said:


> He said the walls are "satin and a very light texture.
> 
> *1. how do you degloss a textured wall? (I would use a primer that adheres to glossy surfaces).*


Easy. TSP, or an equivalent. 

Primer would work as well. 

You come off sorta like an ahole. No offense. I should know, I am one.
----------------

I'm surprised you can't get 200 zero for 25. I can and I don't buy a whole lot of SW. 
Last time I used 400 I was disappointed and won't use it again.


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## AztecPainting (Jan 28, 2010)

Zoomer said:


> If you scratch the surface with your finger nail and its clean then its dried through and ready for a second coat. Sometimes its an hour simetimes its a couple of hours. Its just an average. Never had a problem following the rules set forth by the masters before me. Imo it is a performance issue of the material. Today applied dark purple over white dove eggshell. Used kilzpro 330. 2 coats with 70 minutes between coats. No transparency and yet less than 21 per gallon. Btw walls were slick, no texture. Lesson learned. Dont use 400 except for white over white in flat in ceilings.


I use 400 only for flat white ceilings only, although my standard for any ceiling repaint is 3 coats regardless if it looks good (one coat of qualikote primer and 2 coats of 400, that's what I sell to my clients, maybe a little overkill but it is worth it)

It is true that there is a big gap in between 200 and 400, if I get to choose 200 vs something cheaper, qualikote would do way better than 400 any time, and for around $16 is a no brainer.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

AztecPainting said:


> Also noticed something about Promar 200 and 400 Zero, you gotta follow drying time and recoat time exactly how the label is telling you, if you are doing the second coat on the same day within a couple of hours cause you think is dry enough, it is most likely that you will have to do a third coat,


I'm not trying to nitpick but I've found that 200 drys pretty good in a couple hours, depending on relative humidity and temp of course.




ProMar 400 Zero VOC Interior Latex 
is 
a durable, professional quality, interior 
vinyl acrylic finish for use on walls, ceil-
ings, and trim of primed plaster, wall-
board, wood, masonry, and primed metal. 

Color: 
most colors 
To optimize hide and color development, always use 
the recommended P-Shade primer 
Coverage:
 350 - 400 sq ft/gal 
 @ 4 mils wet; 1.3 mils dry 
Drying Time, @ 77°F, 50% RH:


Touch: 1 hour


Recoat: 4 hours

Drying and recoat times are temperature, humidity, 
and film thickness depen


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

I two coat in the same day with 200 all the time, no issues. Recently I had to put a third coat on for the first time ever, pale yellow over lime green. In retrospect it was pretty dumb not to prime it. Barring that worst case scenario, 200 can two coat anything and certainly in the same day.


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## AztecPainting (Jan 28, 2010)

TJ Paint said:


> I'm not trying to nitpick but I've found that 200 drys pretty good in a couple hours, depending on relative humidity and temp of course.


I agree that 200 would perform good, I got no complains, it is my everyday paint, I use other products where I need to use other products, I have done 3 coats within one day with 200 with no problems.

We were talking about 400, and if you recoat 400 within an hour, no matter how dry it looks or feel, it does make for a weird texture, this paint its not fast recoat friendly like any other paints, this paint sometimes does not cover off whites over off whites, pretty much if you do not follow its label, you are screwed, I have done quite a bit of testing with my SW rep on this product vs 200.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Rep came out and looked at project. What could he say? It didn't cover even with correct procedures. He agreed it sucked. He brought my 200 zero down to 24 tax and all. It was just 30 tax and all. 6 less per gallon. We complained and told him no mas. No mas sw. Told him it would be far and few between before we use any sw. Bm, kilz pro, and p&l will be our goto paints.


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## fearthespur89 (Jan 18, 2013)

You feel better? Have fun trying to find good Ben-Moore paint for $24 lol.


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## AztecPainting (Jan 28, 2010)

fearthespur89 said:


> You feel better? Have fun trying to find good Ben-Moore paint for $24 lol.


I used Ben from BM last year on a nice project, BM Ben was a firm spec for walls so I couldn't change it, I ended up doing 4 coats of OC-85 Mayonnaise, not only that, but I paid $58 per gallon. I'd be more concern about using Ben again. 

A product that has been pretty good is Para Eggshell and I find it reasonable priced ($32 per gallon) and I would use it over Ben anytime.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

AztecPainting said:


> I used Ben from BM last year on a nice project, BM Ben was a firm spec for walls so I couldn't change it, I ended up doing 4 coats of OC-85 Mayonnaise, not only that, but I paid $58 per gallon. I'd be more concern about using Ben again.
> 
> A product that has been pretty good is Para Eggshell and I find it reasonable priced ($32 per gallon) and I would use it over Ben anytime.


$58 for Ben? I'll ship regal to your door for $58/gal lol . Big enough order and I'll come open the cans for ya too.

Ben should be priced similar to the Para eggshell you like.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

fearthespur89 said:


> You feel better? Have fun trying to find good Ben-Moore paint for $24 lol.


Ultra Spec should be priced in that neighborhood +/- depending on your market.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

AztecPainting said:


> I use 400 only for flat white ceilings only, although my standard for any ceiling repaint is 3 coats regardless if it looks good (one coat of qualikote primer and 2 coats of 400, that's what I sell to my clients, maybe a little overkill but it is worth it)
> 
> It is true that there is a big gap in between 200 and 400, if I get to choose 200 vs something cheaper, qualikote would do way better than 400 any time, and for around $16 is a no brainer.


 
One coat of BM Ultra-Flat Ceiling Paint usually does the trick for me. I'm not a big fan of multiple coats on ceilings unless it's absolutely necessary.


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## matt19422 (Oct 2, 2009)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> One coat of BM Ultra-Flat Ceiling Paint usually does the trick for me. I'm not a big fan of multiple coats on ceilings unless it's absolutely necessary.


You are referring to Bm Ultra Spec 500 Correct? Used a bunch then stopped, had too much sheen for a flat.

Never did less than 2 coats on a ceiling or anything for that matter... Maybe if it was previously coated with the same product/color.

One thing thats for sure, every contractor on here has a different way of doing things, especially choosing paints. In Zoomer's case, I would choose the paint based on performance and not allow a customers view on paint price walk me into a budget paint that costs me an extra coat of labor. It doesnt make sense to not spend more on a product that you know works/covers than spend all that time revisiting with a third coat.


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## AztecPainting (Jan 28, 2010)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> One coat of BM Ultra-Flat Ceiling Paint usually does the trick for me. I'm not a big fan of multiple coats on ceilings unless it's absolutely necessary.


I usually deal with older homes now (early 1900's to 50's homes) where I need to do primer first and two coats after, and yes, in the perfect world one coat would be sufficient, although my clients are paying top dollar for my services and that is hard to get in this economy, sure I am happy to do as I quoted it.


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## alertchief (Nov 12, 2009)

As I read this thread I find it hard to believe that you can build a referral based business using these type of products. Every client expects a great paint job. The difference between a good paint and a lousy one per average bedroom is maybe $30. The finish appearance is night and day different and justifies us as painters spending 5 minutes to educate our clients. Nothing happens until someone sells something... And it shouldn't be price !


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

alertchief said:


> As I read this thread I find it hard to believe that you can build a referral based business using these type of products. Every client expects a great paint job. The difference between a good paint and a lousy one per average bedroom is maybe $30. The finish appearance is night and day different and justifies us as painters spending 5 minutes to educate our clients. Nothing happens until someone sells something... And it shouldn't be price !


Says it all.:thumbsup::thumbup:

I've used 400 only on ceilings, nothing else.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Here is a great companion thread to this one. It is pretty good reading on a lesson learned from an esteemed member here:whistling2:

Great thread right here I tell ya!


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Yep, I remember that one TJ. Honestly, I switched to CHB for most of my ceilings. About the only time I ever used 400 was when I sprayed them. Didn't like the coverage when rolling.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

matt19422 said:


> You are referring to Bm Ultra Spec 500 Correct? Used a bunch then stopped, had too much sheen for a flat.
> 
> Never did less than 2 coats on a ceiling or anything for that matter... Maybe if it was previously coated with the same product/color.
> 
> One thing thats for sure, every contractor on here has a different way of doing things, especially choosing paints. In Zoomer's case, I would choose the paint based on performance and not allow a customers view on paint price walk me into a budget paint that costs me an extra coat of labor. It doesnt make sense to not spend more on a product that you know works/covers than spend all that time revisiting with a third coat.


I was referring to 508, its their top-of-the-line waterborne ceiling paint. I'm in love with this product right now! Full disclosure: surface must be primed or coated with a clean similar-colored flat paint for perfect one coat application.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

AztecPainting said:


> I usually deal with older homes now (early 1900's to 50's homes) where I need to do primer first and two coats after, and yes, in the perfect world one coat would be sufficient, although my clients are paying top dollar for my services and that is hard to get in this economy, sure I am happy to do as I quoted it.


I agree with what you are saying, and always seek to perform the best job possible for a client willing to pay. More often then not though, after the first coat of 508 dries, I see no need to apply another coat. It simply looks perfect after one.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> More often then not though, after the first coat of 508 dries, I see no need to apply another coat. It simply looks perfect after one.


Unless you suck like me and have skips everywhere. Then you'd need a second coat...but since its my house a 4" whizz touch up is all it gets.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

fearthespur89 said:


> You feel better? Have fun trying to find good Ben-Moore paint for $24 lol.


Super spec is 25, p&l gold 25, ultra spec 27, are our prices.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Wolfgang said:


> Yep, I remember that one TJ. Honestly, I switched to CHB for most of my ceilings. About the only time I ever used 400 was when I sprayed them. Didn't like the coverage when rolling.


I agree with you. Good for spraying only.


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## Northwest_painter (Jan 27, 2012)

Zoomer said:


> Agreed! Heck I can get america's finest


Your joking right? the cheapest of the cheap Glidden paint sold at HD. I would hang my head in shame if I ever even whispered that in confession I bought that stuff. Let alone used it on a job.


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

TJ Paint said:


> Easy. TSP, or an equivalent.
> 
> Primer would work as well.
> 
> ...


TJ, close but no cigar - you are 1 letter off cuz. I am actually a "B-Hole"... I will talk to my doctor concerning your observation! lol


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

NCPaint1 said:


> Unless you suck like me and have skips everywhere. Then you'd need a second coat...but since its my house a 4" whizz touch up is all it gets.


 
We have been spraying and back-rolling most of our ceilings lately. We just finished a huge waterfront, floor to ceiling windows, angular sheen nightmare, continuous, flat ceiling- one sprayed and back-rolled coat(over primer)=perfection, exceeded everyone's expectations. I didn't dare do a second coat.


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## jbhapp101 (Mar 20, 2013)

*400*

All of the green paints have poor coverage compared to conventional paints. Promar 400 was week to begin with. It's worse now. I am using it at a hotel at their request. Fortunately it's all the same colors. As far as price, you guys need to talk to your reps. I pay about $18 per gallon and it's over priced at that. I'll take my Ultra Hide from HD with my 20% discount. It's a far superior product.


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

TJ Paint said:


> *Easy. TSP, or an equivalent.*
> 
> Primer would work as well.
> 
> ...


I wasn't refering to a product. I was in fact refering to the method of application? Scrub Brush? lol

For my money, if the wall is textured, it already has tooth so a primer is the smart way to go.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

MuraCoat said:


> I wasn't refering to a product. I was in fact refering to the method of application? Scrub Brush? lol
> 
> For my money, if the wall is textured, it already has tooth so a primer is the smart way to go.


There are textured walls that should be cleaned/deglossed well before even a primer. I agree priming would be more efficient than cleaning but sometimes you need to clean the wall too. I merely stated that it can be done, and how.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

To make a comparison. The last room of this house to be painted was the laundry room, mentioned in another thread w/ bm advance. Trim painted first then 2 coats of kilz pro 330 with full coverage. No problems like 400 in the test of the house. Kilz 15.88, 400 24.75 out the door. Overpriced 400 for crap.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Zoomer said:


> To make a comparison. The last room of this house to be painted was the laundry room, mentioned in another thread w/ bm advance. Trim painted first then 2 coats of kilz pro 330 with full coverage. No problems like 400 in the test of the house. Kilz 15.88, 400 24.75 out the door. Overpriced 400 for crap.


Thanks for letting us know. I would never use 400 again for anything unless my back was against the wall.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Agreed. No sw for us anymore. Ben moore, p&l, diamond vogel, and behr/kilz pro. Like papa johns, better ingredients better paint(pizza).


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Poor-mar!


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

mudbone said:


> Poor-mar!


Ouch!! Good one.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

As a comparison, kilz 330 applied today. Went over dark red, burnt orange and dark green. 2 coats and done. 2 hours between coats. At 15.88 total per gallon it was a dream compared 400 used last week.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Zoomer said:


> As a comparison, kilz 330 applied today. Went over dark red, burnt orange and dark green. 2 coats and done. 2 hours between coats. At 15.88 total per gallon it was a dream compared 400 used last week.


 Kilz 330 love it, love it, love it.:thumbsup:


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Why we haven't been using more I don't know. Maybe its oil enamel fumes finally getting to me.


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

SW ProMar 400 is pure garbage with the Sherwin Williams label on it... 
I believe Olympic 15 year paint is on par with this white wash of a product! 

ProMar 700 is even worse? Save your money!!!


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## DK Remodeling (Mar 22, 2013)

Kilz 330 is a very nice product. But I don't think is for everyone.


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## LarryHawk (Apr 8, 2011)

Try Lowe's and the Contractor Finish Line.
We use flat high hide for ceilings, high hide white for trim, and either flat, or eggshell for walls. Price and quality can't be beat.
You may be pleasantly surprised.











Lowes Contractor 2000 Link


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

LarryHawk said:


> Try Lowe's and the Contractor Finish Line.
> We use flat high hide for ceilings, high hide white for trim, and either flat, or eggshell for walls. Price and quality can't be beat.
> You may be pleasantly surprised.
> 
> ...


Thats scary larry


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