# Trouble!



## BBFpainter (Feb 2, 2012)

Hey guys: Just Power washed 3, town houses. This lady called me and said there were white spots on the front of her house- that it looks worse than when I started? I used Zep pwf and water only - been doing this for 30, years - first problem of this kind.
I suspect that since she neglected her place for so long, powerwashing may have taking some color off where some nail heads were, and where I applied more pressure to get bugs unstuck around light.
She is very upset an accused me of using bleach - she is talking crazy like I have to replace her siding. How would you deal with crazy B#&^*.
Explain why this occured, and why it is her responsibility - I have no contract with said B#&^*.


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## Bob547 (Aug 27, 2011)

What kind of siding?


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

Zep cleaner is good product. at what psi did you run your PW? tip? pics?


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## BBFpainter (Feb 2, 2012)

Bob547 said:


> What kind of siding?


 It's old vinyl - light green.


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## Bob547 (Aug 27, 2011)

vinyl siding does have a lifespan, old vinyl can become brittle, chalky, and look faded. You said this was a town house, are you working for the association?


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## Diversers (Aug 2, 2009)

The problem is in the vinyl siding itself. People think vinyl last a lifetime, but it doesn't. What she see is oxidation. The house was probably so dirty, the dirt hid the oxidation. There was a product called revive that worked. The way it sounds she needs a paint job.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

What he said ^^^^


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## BBFpainter (Feb 2, 2012)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> Zep cleaner is good product. at what psi did you run your PW? tip? pics?


 15 degree - it wasn't the tip - 2600psi -it wasn't the pressure.


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## BBFpainter (Feb 2, 2012)

Bob547 said:


> vinyl siding does have a lifespan, old vinyl can become brittle, chalky, and look faded. You said this was a town house, are you working for the association?


 Yea she sounds like she wants new siding - good luck with that! :thumbup: 
She is the next door neighbor of a more recent customer - no association to deal with. It's time to paint :yes: ! anybody want the job :no: ?


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

BBFpainter said:


> I have no contract with said B#&^*.





BBFpainter said:


> no association to deal with.


No contract with her, and no association; who hired you to do this job? Did you have a contract with anybody to do it?


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## BBFpainter (Feb 2, 2012)

ProWallGuy said:


> No contract with her, and no association; who hired you to do this job? Did you have a contract with anybody to do it?


 Verbal - she saw me doing her neighbor's and ask if I would do the front of hers. Wasn't worth the time to write a contract.


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## robladd (Nov 22, 2010)

BBFpainter said:


> Verbal - she saw me doing her neighbor's and ask if I would do the front of hers. Wasn't worth the time to write a contract.


Man o Man! Some people, making a penny trying to steal your dime


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Diversers said:


> The problem is in the vinyl siding itself. People think vinyl last a lifetime, but it doesn't. What she see is oxidation. The house was probably so dirty, the dirt hid the oxidation. There was a product called revive that worked. The way it sounds she needs a paint job.


 True vinyl is not final!


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

BBFpainter said:


> 15 degree - it wasn't the tip - 2600psi -it wasn't the pressure.


2600 psi with that narrow of a stream combined with your statement of using higher pressure to remove bugs on oxidized siding (blue/green is the worst) is a red flag for me. That is 6X the pressure one should use on aged colored vinyl. Pictures will tell the story if you choose to post them.

If you have not had this issue in 30 years, you are ahead of the game. You either caused it or were negligent in not making the homeowner aware of the possible issue. The negligence of not using a contract, to me, makes it worse. Protect your reputation (especially since you work in the development) and paint the front of the house. You have been in business long enough to know that stuff like this is just part of being a business owner. Making it right and moving on would be the best thing to do.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

BBFpainter said:


> 15 degree - it wasn't the tip - 2600psi -it wasn't the pressure.


I always used the white tip 45 degree for delicate surface from 500 to 800 psi. I think you had too much pressure.


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

BBFpainter said:


> Wasn't worth the time to write a contract.


Everyone who's ever said this, regretted it.

There isn't enough time_ not_ to write a contract.


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## BBFpainter (Feb 2, 2012)

PressurePros said:


> 2600 psi with that narrow of a stream combined with your statement of using higher pressure to remove bugs on oxidized siding (blue/green is the worst) is a red flag for me. That is 6X the pressure one should use on aged colored vinyl. Pictures will tell the story if you choose to post them.
> 
> If you have not had this issue in 30 years, you are ahead of the game. You either caused it or were negligent in not making the homeowner aware of the possible issue. The negligence of not using a contract, to me, makes it worse. Protect your reputation (especially since you work in the development) and paint the front of the house. You have been in business long enough to know that stuff like this is just part of being a business owner. Making it right and moving on would be the best thing to do.


 You are forgetting one crucial element: how far the tip was from the siding.


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## BBFpainter (Feb 2, 2012)

PressurePros said:


> 2600 psi with that narrow of a stream combined with your statement of using higher pressure to remove bugs on oxidized siding (blue/green is the worst) is a red flag for me. That is 6X the pressure one should use on aged colored vinyl. Pictures will tell the story if you choose to post them.
> 
> If you have not had this issue in 30 years, you are ahead of the game. You either caused it or were negligent in not making the homeowner aware of the possible issue. The negligence of not using a contract, to me, makes it worse. Protect your reputation (especially since you work in the development) and paint the front of the house. You have been in business long enough to know that stuff like this is just part of being a business owner. Making it right and moving on would be the best thing to do.


 That siding is very old, in full sun, and badley neglected. She asked me to power wash it - I did. Now she needs to have it painted. Siding is not guaranteed forever. Eventually it will show you that it's original finish is gone. Her options were to let more filth accumulate - not exceptable. Or have it cleaned - impossible. I will offer her a discount on painting but if she doesn't want to except the reality, she is on her own.


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## BBFpainter (Feb 2, 2012)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> I always used the white tip 45 degree for delicate surface from 500 to 800 psi. I think you had too much pressure.


 You have to use enough pressure to get the dirt off or you havn't cleaned it enough to satisfy the customer!


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

BBFpainter said:


> Explain why this occured, and why it is her responsibility - I have no contract with said B#&^*.




I only read this thread quickly, and I know NOTHING of power washing, but it seems to me that you are unwilling to accept some good answers and advice. 

We are all professional here who through experience and knowledge are expected to know the products and materials we work with and on. If, by our knowledge, experience, and professionalism we see something that looks like a potential problem, it is our duty to inform the HO of the possible outcomes. 

As you say, you have 30 years experience, and you seem to know the issues vinyl can develop. You did not have a contract spelling "stuff" out. I see many mis-steps. 

But that's just my opinion.


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## Ramsden Painting (Jul 17, 2011)

As every job we hope is a home run and money maker sometimes you have to suck it up and do the right thing even if it costs you money.

Sent from my iPad using PaintTalk


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

Ramsden Painting said:


> As every job we hope is a home run and money maker sometimes you have to suck it up and do the right thing even if it costs you money.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using PaintTalk


The lengths I've gone with some clients to smooth every wrinkle caused by me or otherwise, will never be posted here.
Too gory, and too tempting for certain members to use against me...I know, it's unfortunate considering my consistent postings of A+ work, but it has happened.

Whatever it takes to not only get paid, but insure the client is sincerely pleased at the actual completion as they write the final check.
Repeat business is the only sure indicator the client was being sincere...otherwise, you've been cut from future options to bid.
Ouch.


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## BBFpainter (Feb 2, 2012)

daArch said:


> I only read this thread quickly, and I know NOTHING of power washing, but it seems to me that you are unwilling to accept some good answers and advice.
> 
> We are all professional here who through experience and knowledge are expected to know the products and materials we work with and on. If, by our knowledge, experience, and professionalism we see something that looks like a potential problem, it is our duty to inform the HO of the possible outcomes.
> 
> ...


 Your opinion is valid. As I stated: I have never had someone complain about white spots on vinyl after wash. I have had many complain about set stains that didn't come out even after warning! 
I have no sympathy for someone who neglects there house, then has someone wash the filth off, and start raving about bleech, and new siding - that it looks worse than when I started. 
She is the owner of the siding; the onus of maintaining it, and knowing it's limitations is hers. Everyone knows that no finish is permanent. If all you did was wash your car, and never waxed it, eventually you would wash the paint off. Would you be responsible for painting it if you were the washer, and not the owner? No,. the dumb ass who never put any wax on it would be. I am going to explain my position to her, and offer her a discounted prise for painting. If she is not ameable, then she is on her own. She wants new siding without paying for it; people in hell want ice water!


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## the paintman (Feb 3, 2012)

Guys you all make some valid points. 
But listen to BFF. He does too.
We have all had the customer from hell.
And we have all had an oppurtunist try to swindle us. If you have been doing this for any length of time. I think thats what we have here.

And I'm a painter... who does not paint a thing without pressure washing. I could never say I never have problems, but "I am the greatest". And I almost never have a contract for small one day pressure washing jobs. I do work all the time roof cleaning without one. (not so for bigger jobs or most certainly not commercial jobs) I am reccomended for most. I rarely do pressure washing only jobs anymore, because thier are to many illegals that do it way cheaper. 

The only time I had something similar happen was when i P/W a motel that had blue doors. Apparently the paint was the next thing to failure waiting for the next guy and the bleach spotted them like freckles. Of course he called me back. I was shocked. It did happen as a result of me. But Being a reasonable guy he understood that it would have happened to whomever it was next. He did not however, demand anything from me. I did as mentioned by the OP and gave him a discount to paint all his doors. I think either the spots disappeared in a few days or they did them in house. I never heard from him again. Sometimes I do think it goes away. When the moisture does. Its the same as a water ring on your coffee table. 

So make no mistake thier are oppurtunist that are preying on unsuspecting contractors and wanting you to use your insurance for thier benefit. Sometimes you got no choice if your negligent. I think if bff is telling the truth he could prove the siding had reached its natural life span. That stuff is like paint. Some is real good. Some is pure junk. That could be the case here.


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

how much vinyl siding is it?? I mean you can hand wipe it and remove the oxidation the lady is talking about in no time, a little extra labor and she will be happy. If it its a town house what you got 800 sq ft of siding??? spend a few hrs make her happy and move on IMO.


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## BBFpainter (Feb 2, 2012)

Dave Mac said:


> how much vinyl siding is it?? I mean you can hand wipe it and remove the oxidation the lady is talking about in no time, a little extra labor and she will be happy. If it its a town house what you got 800 sq ft of siding??? spend a few hrs make her happy and move on IMO.


I went out there to look at the problem yesterday. It seems that her house was egged some time ago, and left baking in the sun. The areas she was talking about were a few large spots that were lighter in color.
I told her if she bought the paint I would apply one coat - she has to think about it - go to the synagogue, and pray about it I guess. Some customers want to rape you right out of the box - I don't need them our anybody they know. I work totally alone, and the illegals have beaten the crap out of the paint buisness around here so it is hard to make a decent wage. I'm sure she new that there were lighter spots under all of that filth. This was a 2, hour wash job that will take a long day to paint. She will still act like she is the one that is getting screwed - I'm sure. I explained to the neighbor what was going on with her, and he said I should of warned you about her!


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## Delta Painting (Apr 27, 2010)

We have all had customers like that. Its sucks to have to swallow your pride and do what they are demanding. But I do believe what come's around goes around...Good luck!


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## BBFpainter (Feb 2, 2012)

robladd said:


> Man o Man! Some people, making a penny trying to steal your dime


I asked her what she wanted from me; what did she expect, what would satisfy her - she wouldn't respond. I made her an offer, but she declined.
She sent me a text today wanting to know what I was going to do about her siding. I wrote her, and asked to please articulate what it is that she wants. Waiting for a responce - I think it's new siding.  :thumbup:


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## wills fresh coat (Nov 17, 2011)

BBFpainter said:


> I went out there to look at the problem yesterday. It seems that her house was egged some time ago, and left baking in the sun. The areas she was talking about were a few large spots that were lighter in color.
> I told her if she bought the paint I would apply one coat - she has to think about it - go to the synagogue, and pray about it I guess. Some customers want to rape you right out of the box - I don't need them our anybody they know. I work totally alone, and the illegals have beaten the crap out of the paint buisness around here so it is hard to make a decent wage. I'm sure she new that there were lighter spots under all of that filth. This was a 2, hour wash job that will take a long day to paint. She will still act like she is the one that is getting screwed - I'm sure. I explained to the neighbor what was going on with her, and he said I should of warned you about her!


The neighbor is probably the one that egged the house....:thumbsup:


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

BBFpainter said:


> I went out there to look at the problem yesterday. It seems that her house was egged some time ago, and left baking in the sun. The areas she was talking about were a few large spots that were lighter in color.
> I told her if she bought the paint I would apply one coat - she has to think about it - go to the synagogue, and pray about it I guess. Some customers want to rape you right out of the box - I don't need them our anybody they know. I work totally alone, and the illegals have beaten the crap out of the paint buisness around here so it is hard to make a decent wage. I'm sure she new that there were lighter spots under all of that filth. This was a 2, hour wash job that will take a long day to paint. She will still act like she is the one that is getting screwed - I'm sure. I explained to the neighbor what was going on with her, and he said I should of warned you about her!


 Give her an egshell finish!:whistling2:


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## BBFpainter (Feb 2, 2012)

Well guys: Her final position is that I should paint her house at no charge - she wont even buy the paint. Since the finish was defeated by attrition, ( eggs, sun, wheather ) and anyone who attempted to clean it
would have encountered the same prolblem, and not cleaning it was not
an option - she couldn't continuously let dirt build up, it was already an eye sore. I have decided to no longer pursue a resolution with her. She threatened to seek legal remedy. I will apprise you guys when I find out more. I sincerely thank everyone for their input! :thumbsup:


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## wills fresh coat (Nov 17, 2011)

BBFpainter said:


> Well guys: Her final position is that I should paint her house at no charge - she wont even buy the paint. Since the finish was defeated by attrition, ( eggs, sun, wheather ) and anyone who attempted to clean it
> would have encountered the same prolblem, and not cleaning it was not
> an option - she couldn't continuously let dirt build up, it was already an eye sore. I have decided to no longer pursue a resolution with her. She threatened to seek legal remedy. I will apprise you guys when I find out more. I sincerely thank everyone for their input! :thumbsup:


It's a couple gals of paint and a few man hrs, your looking at $100 tops to fix it...I would of had it done by now


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## BBFpainter (Feb 2, 2012)

wills fresh coat said:


> It's a couple gals of paint and a few man hrs, your looking at $100 tops to fix it...I would of had it done by now


 You don't know what your talking about. Two gallons of Aura exterior is near $ 140.00. It's a 30 minute drive each way, and I don't use guys guy. If you read this thread you would see I work alone. She can stick her siding up her ass! Her house was egged years ago, and covered up by filth acumilation. :yes:


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## wills fresh coat (Nov 17, 2011)

BBFpainter said:


> You don't know what your talking about. Two gallons of Aura exterior is near $ 140.00. It's a 30 minute drive each way, and I don't use guys guy. If you read this thread you would see I work alone. She can stick her siding up her ass! Her house was egged years ago, and covered up by filth acumilation. :yes:


No problem....I'm sure her lawyer will be in touch with you.


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

Turn it over to your insurance company :whistling2:


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## Bob547 (Aug 27, 2011)

I don't think you owe her anything, all you did was powerwash, the damage was already there, you cleaned off the dirt and now she can see it, she would have to prove that you caused the damage, she would have to pay for a lawyer costing her money. Her temper may start to flair up like a pack of hemorrhoids. Her head may start to spin all the way around. She will stomp her feet and cry to get her way just like when she was a little spoiled kid. I see a red door and I want to paint it black. Love is a battlefield. Now look it here, I can dig grease and chompit on a butterfruit dragonfruit garden.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Pressure washing is so easy.


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> Pressure washing is so easy.


and so profitable!


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

BBFpainter said:


> You don't know what your talking about. Two gallons of Aura exterior is near $ 140.00. It's a 30 minute drive each way, and I don't use guys guy. If you read this thread you would see I work alone. She can stick her siding up her ass! Her house was egged years ago, and covered up by filth acumilation. :yes:


always the perfect solution:blink:


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## BBFpainter (Feb 2, 2012)

Bob547 said:


> I don't think you owe her anything, all you did was powerwash, the damage was already there, you cleaned off the dirt and now she can see it, she would have to prove that you caused the damage, she would have to pay for a lawyer costing her money. Her temper may start to flair up like a pack of hemorrhoids. Her head may start to spin all the way around. She will stomp her feet and cry to get her way just like when she was a little spoiled kid. I see a red door and I want to paint it black. Love is a battlefield. Now look it here, I can dig grease and chompit on a butterfruit dragonfruit garden.


Your right: She had the same thing when I left as when I got there - minus the dirt. She should of taken my generous offer, but she has a zero
compromise policy, and she was rude, and insulting. She new about the underlying varigated blight - she tried to get over big time. Now she needs to spend some money. I hope she gets some illegals to paint it with some mid grade interior :clap:


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## RaleighPainter (Jun 13, 2011)

You and the customer would have been better served to x-jet or downstream some sodium hypochlorite (bleach) mixed with a surfactant (soap) and rinse and repeat if needed to remove all dirt... very very light pressure where needed. I can show you some filthy filthy filthy vinyl apartments (old blue vinyl) chalky etc... we cleaned professionally, using the RIGHT chem's and very very little pressure (rinsing only) they turned out wonderfully. Many people think you need to apply pressure directly to a home to clean it, this is not true and causes more harm then good.


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## BBFpainter (Feb 2, 2012)

RaleighPainter said:


> You and the customer would have been better served to x-jet or downstream some sodium hypochlorite (bleach) mixed with a surfactant (soap) and rinse and repeat if needed to remove all dirt... very very light pressure where needed. I can show you some filthy filthy filthy vinyl apartments (old blue vinyl) chalky etc... we cleaned professionally, using the RIGHT chem's and very very little pressure (rinsing only) they turned out wonderfully. Many people think you need to apply pressure directly to a home to clean it, this is not true and causes more harm then good.


 Have you ever cleaned one with varigated egg blight that was hidden by filth? She would be better served to put a little maintenance in her sidding every few decades!


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## RaleighPainter (Jun 13, 2011)

BBFpainter said:


> Have you ever cleaned one with varigated egg blight that was hidden by filth? She would be better served to put a little maintenance in her sidding every few decades!


I plead no contest. :-\ 20 year old vinyl is pretty much at the end of its aesthetic life span. She wants something for nothing evidently, didn't read the egg thing until now.


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