# Stair risers



## Ramsden Painting (Jul 17, 2011)

Just looked a project for a Prospective customer who asked me to paint the staircase,trim, risers, ect as well as two other rooms. This is what found on the risers when I went for the estimate. Guess what? I can have the job if I price it right she told me.

I priced this part as T & M. But gave her a price on the rest


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## sagebrush123 (Mar 11, 2011)

would have made more cents(sense) to install tread after some prep(sanding) and priming


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Is this a duplicate? A few weeks ago someone posted these same pics, and asked the same question.

I said veneer it. I even remember my response?


Oh yeah...here it is

http://www.painttalk.com/f2/sticky-situation-15072/

I suppose if you didnt like the answers in the other thread, just try again


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## JoseyWales (Jan 8, 2011)

What's the big deal?

Sand/fill

Coverstain

Alkyd hybrid semi-gloss white paint (x2)


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## sagebrush123 (Mar 11, 2011)

depends on what look you are going for.

some people may want it smooth as a baby bottom, some may like it a little patchy/rough. some have money to put on veneer. maybe cheaper than the painting way.

others spend time thinking that it would have been a whole lot easier if the order was different. I think that looked like a new tread...maybe not. maybe it was there and covered by carpet?

I missed this one last week-maybe that's why it is doing a 2nd. round...all for lil' ol' me.

didn't think of stripper route but that would be great too.....
but then I think going to the veneer(which I would have never thought up-and would take my work away) would be very plausible>


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## cappaint (May 24, 2011)

Skim coat with wood filler...sand. Paint 2 coats with behr paint and primer in 1 right over the filler. That'll win u the bid.


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## JoseyWales (Jan 8, 2011)

cappaint said:


> Skim coat with wood filler...sand. Paint 2 coats with behr paint and primer in 1 right over the filler. That'll win u the bid.



Naw,that'll probably bleed thru....Seal it with Coverstain or BIN first.


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## cappaint (May 24, 2011)

JoseyWales said:


> Naw,that'll probably bleed thru....Seal it with Coverstain or BIN first.


 
It wont...ive used ultra over filler for years and its never bleed thru. I could knock this out in half a day and it would look awesome...dont make it harder than it is.


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## Ramsden Painting (Jul 17, 2011)

Sorry didn't realize I already asked.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

sagebrush123 said:


> then I think going to the veneer(which I would have never thought up-and would take my work away) would be very plausible>


Easiest/quickest/best fix I could think of. You need contact cement and a razor knife, I reckon you can handle that  Depending on the veneer you choose, you could paint or stain. Hell, you could buy a cheap sheet of that crap wood they stick under linoleum. Its thin and paintable. Little wood glue, and a couple finish nails....done. Check please :thumbup:


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Ramsden Painting said:


> Sorry didn't realize I already asked.


Its all good....Im just glad im not going crazy :thumbsup:


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## sagebrush123 (Mar 11, 2011)

ncpaint1-

the beauty to working in a paint store is that you have a mind that stays tuned into people coming and going......constantly you have a customer, or a phone order, or...you know....

sometimes, out in the field, it gets lonely and the mind does alot of thinking. and then sometimes you run into someone and have a real strange learning curve that is hard to translate.

keepin that mind on task like you do- is a a good thing.

how is michigan today?

I would try veneer at home if the need comes up- I wouldn't do it out in the working world.


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## JoseyWales (Jan 8, 2011)

cappaint said:


> It wont...ive used ultra over filler for years and its never bleed thru. I could knock this out in half a day and it would look awesome...dont make it harder than it is.


It's not the filler that'll bleed through..Look at the shape of those stairs again.


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## ROOMINADAY (Mar 20, 2009)

I would cover with a veneer of birch plywood, some PL premium and a few brads to hold it til it sets. Skim coats on the back of a riser is not very solid.


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## JoseyWales (Jan 8, 2011)

ROOMINADAY said:


> I would cover with a veneer of birch plywood, some PL premium and a few brads to hold it til it sets. Skim coats on the back of a riser is not very solid.



Just use a good sander and that will look good..No need to skim coat it...Just prime, fill in the odd nick, and paint


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## cappaint (May 24, 2011)

idk bout u guys but im an ace with a knife. I would skim it so tite that i would barely have to sand. Forget buying ply wood and trying to cut it perfect 12 times.

My way is much less labor....def. less materials...and if you do it right very little dust. And I dont see anything in that pic that leads me to believe it would bleed thru....be more specific if im missing something. U guys understimate the P+P in one. If it makes you feel better substitute a coat of primer for the first coat.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

sagebrush123 said:


> ncpaint, keepin that mind on task like you do- is a a good thing.


I can do just about anything, I know all the words :whistling2:


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I like the skimming idea.


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## Ramsden Painting (Jul 17, 2011)

She called again today and it came back on my radar. Once again she tried to get me to lower the price. I saide we could lower the cost and then asked her what on the estimate did she decide not to do. She's to get back to me


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

cappaint said:


> idk bout u guys but im an ace with a knife. I would skim it so tite that i would barely have to sand. Forget buying ply wood and trying to cut it perfect 12 times.
> 
> My way is much less labor....def. less materials...and if you do it right very little dust. And I dont see anything in that pic that leads me to believe it would bleed thru....be more specific if im missing something. U guys understimate the P+P in one. If it makes you feel better substitute a coat of primer for the first coat.


skim with what?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Dx93 @ 60g all day long.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

TJ Paint said:


> skim with what?


My thoughts exactly. Mud would most likely crumble off, or at least with the first good shot from a shoe.

Cutting 12 pieces of wood the same size? Really? Umm tablesaw and miter saw. Someone took home-ec instead of wood shop I think. Rather frost a cake than do it proper. 

Framing in my basement...sucks I only have 10' studs and a 9' ceiling, what the hell am I gonna do with all these studs? I can't possibly cut them all the same length.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

vermontpainter said:


> Dx93 @ 60g all day long.


sander?

You're all about sanding these days


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## JoseyWales (Jan 8, 2011)

Ramsden Painting said:


> She called again today and it came back on my radar. Once again she tried to get me to lower the price. I saide we could lower the cost and then asked her what on the estimate did she decide not to do. She's to get back to me



Run as fast as you can away from this customer...You don't negotiate price during the peak summer months....You might consider working something out like this in mid Jan if you're not busy.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

JoseyWales said:


> Run as fast as you can away from this customer...You don't negotiate price during the peak summer months....You might consider working something out like this in mid Jan if you're not busy.


I don't agree with you on most things, but this one I do.


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## TheRogueBristle (Mar 19, 2010)

NC,no offense, but stick to selling paint. You obviously haven't done much carpentry if you think nailing/gluing Luan (that crap they put under linoleum) to stair risers will a) look good, b) be durable, or c) be easy to do well.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

TJ Paint said:


> sander?
> 
> You're all about sanding these days


Actually, I was all about my proshot fine finish and arborcoat today. :thumbup:


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## cappaint (May 24, 2011)

TheRogueBristle said:


> NC,no offense, but stick to selling paint. You obviously haven't done much carpentry if you think nailing/gluing Luan (that crap they put under linoleum) to stair risers will a) look good, b) be durable, or c) be easy to do well.


 
Was about to say the same thing. Basic elmers wood filler from walmart is what I would skim with. The **** is unbelievable and has unlimited uses. It dries hard as a rock and It will literally hold walls together. It also spreads like peanut butter and is easy to use. I could skim each riser in about 1.5 minutes...it dries in 20 minutes, sand, paint. Im not talking out my ass either, Ive used this method b4. I'd be on my way home and you'd be lugging that lumber to wherever you keep your miter to do your cobjob.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

TheRogueBristle said:


> NC,no offense, but stick to selling paint. You obviously haven't done much carpentry if you think nailing/gluing Luan (that crap they put under linoleum) to stair risers will a) look good, b) be durable, or c) be easy to do well.


If its getting painted, who cares? Be better than mudding it IMO. Clear pine would he best, but the customer wants cheap....not crappy and half assed. Which is what a mud job would be IMO. You don't mud risers, they're going to flex and move.


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## TheRogueBristle (Mar 19, 2010)

Scrape, sand, some filler here and there, stain block primer and paint. Don't expect miracles in terms of texture unless you what to spend time ($$$). too ba d the treads have been done so nicely, hate to see em gouged by a scraper, though no doubt the floor guys skinned the risers a little.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

cappaint said:


> Was about to say the same thing. Basic elmers wood filler from walmart is what I would skim with. The **** is unbelievable and has unlimited uses. It dries hard as a rock and It will literally hold walls together. It also spreads like peanut butter and is easy to use. I could skim each riser in about 1.5 minutes...it dries in 20 minutes, sand, paint. Im not talking out my ass either, Ive used this method b4. I'd be on my way home and you'd be lugging that lumber to wherever you keep your miter to do your cobjob.


I'd love to see one of the stellar properties you've performed this on. If this happened in my home, I'd probably have a fit. 

Just mud it and throw some behr paint and primer on it. GIT-R-DUN


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

TheRogueBristle said:


> Scrape, sand, some filler here and there, stain block primer and paint. Don't expect miracles in terms of texture unless you what to spend time ($$$). too ba d the treads have been done so nicely, hate to see em gouged by a scraper, though no doubt the floor guys skinned the risers a little.


No offense, but let me get this straight. You want to skim coat then prime and paint, with less than acceptable results? For how much? 

You guys really wonder why this trade isn't taken seriously? Are you kidding me?


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## TheRogueBristle (Mar 19, 2010)

:


NCPaint1 said:


> If its getting painted, who cares? Be better than mudding it IMO. Clear pine would he best, but the customer wants cheap....not crappy and half assed. Which is what a mud job would be IMO. You don't mud risers, they're going to flex and move.


With veneer you are talking about changing the design of the stairs, with regards to the reveal undereath the nose of each tread, not to mention shortening the length of each, perhaps making them non code compliant. You also have four unfinished edges of veneer butting into the stringers and treads on each piece. Do you caulk the Luan to the top ad underside of each tread? because believe me they are not all the same size or square.

I agree that skim coating may not be the best idea,just be careful when what you suggest as an alternative when you call some els half assed.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Rogue, they getting stained or painted? Veneer is thin, like Formica, wont violate any code. You could get white Formica and save the painting step too...if they want them white of course.

From the photos, it looks pretty straight forward. If they want it stained, cut it properly it trims easily, if its painted, caulk it.


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## TheRogueBristle (Mar 19, 2010)

Ok, well veneer is not Luan, like the underlayment you suggested earlier,which is typically a quarter inch. Treads have to be a certain depth by code, so on some case losing a quarte inch is not possible. As I said earlier, it's clear to me you don't have much experience in carpentry.

Not trying to have a mission here, but it bugs me when people over simplify things to make it seem like they know more about it than they do, especially whe it's at the expense of disparaging others ideas.

Serially dude, youre talking about gluing formica to stair risers rather than painting them and you sell paint. Go get a roll and find out for yourself how to cut it, and try fitting it tight to twelve or thirteen stair risers, then gluing it to tha bumpy ass surface. Let me know how it looks after a couple months of traffic.


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## cappaint (May 24, 2011)

NCPaint1 said:


> I'd love to see one of the stellar properties you've performed this on. If this happened in my home, I'd probably have a fit.
> 
> Just mud it and throw some behr paint and primer on it. GIT-R-DUN


 

I would love to show you....its nowhere near as complicated or halfassed as you make it sound.

Wood filler is not mud...doesnt perform like mud...so stop referring to it as such. It honestly couldnt be easier to do and the results will be much better than your idea. 


First off, for all the reasons rogue mentioned...even it is thin it is going to change the dimensions. Also, Im guessing you are going to make one template and then cut the rest off of it?? You'll then find out that each one is slightly different which means each will have to be done custom.


Your are talking about going to the hardware store....buying the wood...dragging a heavy ass miter around.....making all those cuts....creating all that saw dust....caulking it all....then doing any finish coats.


Im showing up with a container of wood filler and a putty knife and mine will look better when done. I remodelled a 150 year old stairway last winter in which I used this method and it came out perfect. How hard is it to skim??


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## ROOMINADAY (Mar 20, 2009)

It is going to depend on the level of quality.

I can skim an entire house level 5, but I can also cut and scribe a flawless 1/8" piece of luan with a small piece of 1/4" inside cove below the tread. If it were my home, solid backing. I WOULD MAKE THE SAME AMOUNT EITHER WAY.

This client is looking for a deal/ short cut so he has to decide if this is worth it.

Trying to make a carpet grade staircase look magazine quality is hard.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

We all can skim coat and smooth real good and the finish product will look excellent. The problem I see is durability. Remember risers get kicked. The fillers I know, with perhaps the exception of bondo, will not withstand the wear and tear risers are subjected to.

A high end resto I worked this summer, the risers were veneered - WOOD veneered. It looked like 1/32". Didn't change the design of the stairs and was obviously paintable. Don't ask me what wood it was.

We are in the coatings trades. Veneers are not in our toolbox. I would ask some carpenters about this. What I saw this summer was new to me and looked real nice.


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## cappaint (May 24, 2011)

daArch said:


> We all can skim coat and smooth real good and the finish product will look excellent. The problem I see is durability. Remember risers get kicked. The fillers I know, with perhaps the exception of bondo, will not withstand the wear and tear risers are subjected to.
> 
> A high end resto I worked this summer, the risers were veneered - WOOD veneered. It looked like 1/32". Didn't change the design of the stairs and was obviously paintable. Don't ask me what wood it was.
> 
> We are in the coatings trades. Veneers are not in our toolbox. I would ask some carpenters about this. What I saw this summer was new to me and looked real nice.


 

Wood filler dries hard as actual wood...it would handle the beating just as good as plywood. Assuming you could produce similar results with both and I could....you'd have a much greater profit margin my way cause it would take 1/3 of the time.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Jeff, 

Try dye stain on them sometime. Makes life easier.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

There are plenty of products to skim this with like bondo that are two part with a hardner. 

I suppose it would depend on how bad it really is. Hell if you could sand thoroughly taking down most of the high areas and apply a high build primer with enough mills and block sand it you may be gtg with minimal filling. 

Hard to tell from the pics how thick that is.


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## ROOMINADAY (Mar 20, 2009)

vermontpainter said:


> Jeff,
> 
> Try dye stain on them sometime. Makes life easier.



I agree Scott. All we have here is Minwax and pre-stain wood conditioner. I was't happy with this one. The GC and client were, but it was too blotchy. The 1st one i did was less blotchy. I have one we are starting today...Minwax Chestnut with PSWC. The samples wee a little blotchy as well but this has all been select birch, not the greatest for consistency.

I have done 3 new stair cases since opening the shop. I am still learning and want to achieve a more consistent finish. I have also refinished a few on site and installed risers!

There are some custom cabinet shops in Halifax and I am going to booking a day and see if I can get some info...even a lesson.


Sorry for the Hijack!


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## Ramsden Painting (Jul 17, 2011)

We have decided to pass on this project


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Sounds like a good business decision :thumbup:


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

I was wondering if something hot (lacquer thinner/acetone) might have taken it off.
Problem would be keeping it off the treads.

Now I'll never know.


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