# First time using Advance…love it!



## 804 Paint (Jan 31, 2014)

For some reason I have always shied away from trying Advance. Mostly because of the dry and recoat times, and everyone saying that it has a tendency to run on you, etc. I used it yesterday…11 casings, 8 doors, crown, baseboard and I just love it. 

First, the "dry time" on the label is BS…it easily dries to the touch in about an hour…I think the can says 4-6. Second, I find it VERY EASY to apply and barely noticed any issues with sagging, running, etc. MUCH less than with Aura. Third, it already feels rock hard and sands easily! Fourth, it just looks great. Really does level out well. On this job the trim and doors were just scuffed (not a high-end job), so the old brush marks were still very apparent after prep. STILL, this stuff looks great even over old brush marks. Nice build and leveling. Can't wait to see what the second coat will look like!

I keep reading how well it rolls with a foam roller. I have never used foam rollers on doors (except in a few circumstances) because I just don't like to see stipple on doors, even hollow-core six panels. I decided to try rolling Advance on the doors yesterday and was disappointed in that respect. I can still see the roller stipple and think the doors would look much nicer brushed. I don't see how some of you guys apply paint to cabinets with a foam roller!

Last thing is I definitely needed to wash my brush out every two hours or so, but it washed easily. Exercised good pot discipline and refreshed every hour or so. There was one time the paint started to act funny on a door, so I just added a splash of water to my pot and all was good!

Now I just need to grow some balls and learn how to spray trim for interior repaints. Just can't get over my fears! :blink:


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

You have been enlightened! Carry on, and don't be afraid to spray it. You won't be disappointed.


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## 804 Paint (Jan 31, 2014)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> You have been enlightened! Carry on, and don't be afraid to spray it. You won't be disappointed.


Ha…well, I'm afraid to spray indoors…PERIOD! But that's for another thread. There's one now I should jump in on to get some pointers. I have this fear that overspray will go anywhere I don't want to it. Like a mystical indoor wind will come to screw me over!


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

My preferred method for applying Advance on doors is roll and back brush. If I get it just right, it will flow out near perfectly on smooth surfaces. 









This previously sprayed masonite door was coated with Advance gloss using that method. 

My limited experiments with foam rollers have been less than satisfactory. Primarily because its so hard to get decent film build with foam rollers. Some guys here have reported good results using flock foam, and mohair rollers. 

Keep it up, Advance is a very nice product and quite user friendly in most respects.


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## 804 Paint (Jan 31, 2014)

Nice!

That's how I'm doing the casings on this job...1/2" cigar roller, back brushed and tipped off. Makes me want to find some bare wood in my house to see how this stuff REALLY looks!! The trim I'm doing now is in less than ideal condition, so...

Still looks good tho!


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I prefer micro fiber rollers to the flock and mohair.

Typically, I prefer to trim and just micro fiber roll larger items. I do not get the roll and back brush, seems counter productive to me and I think the right roller cover is closer to a sprayed look than back brush on large surfaces. But, I am sure that is just how I apply vs. others.

For drytime, pastel base is one thing, and deep colors are another. Do not push dry time on dark colors!!!!! Pastel does seem forgiving.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Jmayspaint said:


> My preferred method for applying Advance on doors is roll and back brush. If I get it just right, it will flow out near perfectly on smooth surfaces.
> 
> View attachment 38761
> 
> ...


Are you using a high density foam roller or a low density. It makes a huge difference. I quite like a good flocked foam myself.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Proalliance coatings said:


> Are you using a high density foam roller or a low density. It makes a huge difference. I quite like a good flocked foam myself.


Low density like the ones often sold as acoustical ceiling roller covers? No, I haven't tried one for this purpose. I imagine it would make a lot of difference. The high density ones have poor pick up and release, presumably because they are so dense.


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## JoeAntilla (Mar 14, 2014)

DeanV said:


> I prefer micro fiber rollers to the flock and mohair.
> 
> Typically, I prefer to trim and just micro fiber roll larger items. I do not get the roll and back brush, seems counter productive to me and I think the right roller cover is closer to a sprayed look than back brush on large surfaces. But, I am sure that is just how I apply vs. others.
> 
> For drytime, pastel base is one thing, and deep colors are another. Do not push dry time on dark colors!!!!! Pastel does seem forgiving.



I'm with you on this. Here are the rollers my brother (he's a better painter than me, so he says) turned me onto recently.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

804 Paint said:


> For some reason I have always shied away from trying Advance. Mostly because of the dry and recoat times, and everyone saying that it has a tendency to run on you, etc. I used it yesterday…11 casings, 8 doors, crown, baseboard and I just love it.
> 
> First, the "dry time" on the label is BS…it easily dries to the touch in about an hour…I think the can says 4-6. Second, I find it VERY EASY to apply and barely noticed any issues with sagging, running, etc. MUCH less than with Aura. Third, it already feels rock hard and sands easily! Fourth, it just looks great. Really does level out well. On this job the trim and doors were just scuffed (not a high-end job), so the old brush marks were still very apparent after prep. STILL, this stuff looks great even over old brush marks. Nice build and leveling. Can't wait to see what the second coat will look like!
> 
> ...


The spraying is relatively easy. It's the masking off of everything that's a PITA.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I liked Advance all the way up to the last permanent micro bubbling effect I got from rolling. Now, I'm a little less confident in this product. But in fairness to the product, I was using a very deep tint base, the exterior environmental conditions were not ideal, I was using the high gloss, and I rolled it on (which I avoid at all cost on aesthetically higher value areas).


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

JoeAntilla said:


> I'm with you on this. Here are the rollers my brother (he's a better painter than me, so he says) turned me onto recently.
> View attachment 38769


Those are nice. They also have these that are compatible with the Wooster Jumbo Koter rollers. 








I use those or the 3/8 version often for roll/brush on trim and doors.

The Wooster microfibers are different than other brands I've tried. I really like their micro-plush covers for walls, but the mini versions tend to shed tiny fibers similar to regular woven naps.


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## 804 Paint (Jan 31, 2014)

DeanV said:


> I prefer micro fiber rollers to the flock and mohair.
> 
> Typically, I prefer to trim and just micro fiber roll larger items. I do not get the roll and back brush, seems counter productive to me and I think the right roller cover is closer to a sprayed look than back brush on large surfaces. But, I am sure that is just how I apply vs. others.
> 
> For drytime, pastel base is one thing, and deep colors are another. Do not push dry time on dark colors!!!!! Pastel does seem forgiving.


Dry time is dry time…I have nothing to do with that. I won't recoat for 16 per the label, regardless. I asked about this in another thread and I think Jmays stated recoating prior to 16 has not ended well for him.

Maybe I'm not not rolling right. I dunno. I just can't see leaving the stipple behind. The rolling and back brushing on regular casings, etc just helps to ensure a more even coat, which pretty much eliminates runs. It's also faster to get a higher build this way, IMO.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I was taught to apply and lay off enamel paint on doors entirely with a brush. My technique would be to slap large X patterns and quickly filling them in while moving from the top left of the door, towards the bottom, with a final lay off. Of course this was with an unlimited open time oil base. Way too much wrist work!

Then around the mid eighties, I started rolling with a Slim Jim followed with a brush for lay down. The roller sleeves really sucked back then, and I didn't prefer that method. But to keep up with the labor time it saved, I had to become proficient at it. Which meant burning the loose fibers off, and starting with the less visible trim work so that by the time you did a few doors, it actually worked pretty well.

By the lat 90's to today, rolling doors has become a preferred and accepted method of application. Fortunately, I sometimes have the luxury of applying a spray finish, or even the old school brush method. But really, the paints today don't allow a whole lot of open time to be screwing around with X patterns on doors.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

I think the deal with a rolled only finish with the microfibers is that it Can flow out really well. Most microfiber rollers seem to me to leave a nice open texture that can end up really smooth. I've been able to achieve this on walls. When it first goes on, the texture left looks kinda weird (compared to woven naps), but with the right paint and conditions it can flow out incredibly smooth. I haven't really tried to do it on doors or trim much, I'm just so in the habit of laying it off. I can totally see it working though.


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## MIZZOU (Nov 18, 2012)

Not sure if id want to do this on a bunch of doors, but I've painted a lot of furniture with advance and a foam roller and had good results.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Jmayspaint said:


> Low density like the ones often sold as acoustical ceiling roller covers? No, I haven't tried one for this purpose. I imagine it would make a lot of difference. The high density ones have poor pick up and release, presumably because they are so dense.


Any foam rollers aren't very good at pickup. The flocked are quite a lot better.


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## frankkaeb (Mar 4, 2009)

There is a local paint store that can make rattle cans from any alkyd paint. Anyone know if Advance can be sprayed out of a rattle can? Thinking of use for small areas that need touch-up.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

frankkaeb said:


> There is a local paint store that can make rattle cans from any alkyd paint. Anyone know if Advance can be sprayed out of a rattle can? Thinking of use for small areas that need touch-up.


 my local BM dealer will put any of their products in a rattle can. We will use the service for spray painting very fine-hole speaker grills with the wall paint.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> my local BM dealer will put any of their products in a rattle can. We will use the service for spray painting very fine-hole speaker grills with the wall paint.



That's a great tip right there! I had some speaker panels recently and we ended up not painting them and the ho was cool with it but I like this option better.

Also Excel turned me on to the yellow flocked foam rollers by whizz. They are not cheap, but they work really good for advance over previously sprayed surfaces. Gives about the same look. Maybe a little more stipple, but damn good. Some of my guys liked using rollers with more nap, like a 1/4" or even 3/8". I could tell the difference but they still looked good too. Much faster since they put on more paint.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

BM has a mini roller cover that is red, that is made for Advance. I can't remember the name of it, it is not foam, not microfiber, but it's pretty new, and it works really well.


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## jw129943 (Apr 3, 2014)

804 Paint said:


> Dry time is dry time…I have nothing to do with that. I won't recoat for 16 per the label, regardless. I asked about this in another thread and I think Jmays stated recoating prior to 16 has not ended well for him.
> 
> Maybe I'm not not rolling right. I dunno. I just can't see leaving the stipple behind. The rolling and back brushing on regular casings, etc just helps to ensure a more even coat, which pretty much eliminates runs. It's also faster to get a higher build this way, IMO.


I agree with respecting the dry time guidelines. Given the time it takes for Advance to fully cure, I don't want to draw it out any longer by recoating too soon. It's a great product though - I love it.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

kdpaint said:


> BM has a mini roller cover that is red, that is made for Advance. I can't remember the name of it, it is not foam, not microfiber, but it's pretty new, and it works really well.



Is it a bm specific roller? Or just one they sell? I've seen the red velour ones made by WHIZZ I believe. They work well.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

Damon T said:


> Is it a bm specific roller? Or just one they sell? I've seen the red velour ones made by WHIZZ I believe. They work well.


Yes, by Whizz, not BM. I find that they work waaay better than foam or even microfiber for Advance. Almost sprayed.


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## 804 Paint (Jan 31, 2014)

kdpaint said:


> Yes, by Whizz, not BM. I find that they work waaay better than foam or even microfiber for Advance. Almost sprayed.



I cannot find this darn roller. There is a red 4.5" but it is by Wooster. 


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Wooster makes the Red Feather

Fwiw one of my guys swears by the black whizz 4" foam rollers with the flat end. 
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## 804 Paint (Jan 31, 2014)

Those black ones are the ones I tried. Stipple didn't level out. Jmays made a good point…they don't put enough paint on for Advance to be able to do it's thing. I probably had to dip that thing 20 times for one six panel door.

Would you say the red feather is pretty much the same thing?


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

804 Paint said:


> Those black ones are the ones I tried. Stipple didn't level out. Jmays made a good point…they don't put enough paint on for Advance to be able to do it's thing. I probably had to dip that thing 20 times for one six panel door.
> 
> Would you say the red feather is pretty much the same thing?


The Red feather is a velour like the whizz pictured. Good cover. Wooster also makes a flocked foam called The Big Green, I believe.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Just for the sake of it being said, Benjamin Moore recommends these for Advance: http://www.benjaminmoore.com/en-us/for-your-home/shed-resistant-professional-roller-covers


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## 804 Paint (Jan 31, 2014)

Woodford said:


> Just for the sake of it being said, Benjamin Moore recommends these for Advance: http://www.benjaminmoore.com/en-us/for-your-home/shed-resistant-professional-roller-covers



To roll 6-panel doors? 


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## CRS (Apr 13, 2013)

Kudo's to my fellow chemists at Ben Moore. I wish they had bumped up the high shear viscosity just a bit.

For the old school painters in VOC restricted areas it's probably as close as you can get to the good ole oil base enamels. Still restricted by by the limitations of water as far as open time goes... real working time 7 minutes plus at 70 deg/50% humidity which is pretty good compared to conventional latex enamels. I'd give it my too thumbs up. Application wise... treat it like you would oil enamel.... just go faster, especially in areas of the country with low humidity.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

804 Paint said:


> To roll 6-panel doors?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PaintTalk.com



I suggest the 3/4"x18" for 6 panel doors!


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

804 Paint said:


> To roll 6-panel doors?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PaintTalk.com


Newp, just their general recommendation. I thought there was some mention of application other than trim/doors, maybe I was mistaken.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Woodford said:


> Just for the sake of it being said, Benjamin Moore recommends these for Advance: http://www.benjaminmoore.com/en-us/for-your-home/shed-resistant-professional-roller-covers


I just used one of those covers with regal select matte (oxford white) The sheen looks terrible. It looks more shiny on top of the stipple then on the 'low spots' between the stipple. It was sprayed and back rolled, and looked really, really good when it was wet.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

How long has it been dry? It can take up to 3 weeks for latex paints to settle into their final sheens.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Bender said:


> I just used one of those covers with regal select matte (oxford white) The sheen looks terrible. It looks more shiny on top of the stipple then on the 'low spots' between the stipple. It was sprayed and back rolled, and looked really, really good when it was wet.



Might need a second coat.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Woodford said:


> How long has it been dry? It can take up to 3 weeks for latex paints to settle into their final sheens.


it could also take a little longer for the flattener pigments to migrate to the surface on the "peaks" of the stipple. This may be a product of the new high solids paints, but I would defer that to the chemists.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Damon T said:


> Might need a second coat.


Maybe they should have used So-and-so brand paint and primer and stain sealer in one!


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Let's see if it shows up in a pic.


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## 804 Paint (Jan 31, 2014)

I see it. Reminds me of a time I tried the Purdy Colossus in 3/4" nap (only because their 1/2" isn't a true half inch). Looked terrible. 

Woodford, I imagine he's used RS before and has an expectation as to what the finish should look like when dry. I think he just hates the cover. 


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Bender said:


> Let's see if it shows up in a pic.


i'm stumped. That's a pretty heavy texture for what I've seen from Advance. I'm curious as to how a microfiber would work and if that would give you a smoother surface.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

804 Paint said:


> Woodford, I imagine he's used RS before and has an expectation as to what the finish should look like when dry. I think he just hates the cover.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PaintTalk.com


Fair enough. I don't sell the BM Roller Covers and they aren't a BM product, so I don't care tooooo much :thumbup:


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Proalliance coatings said:


> i'm stumped. That's a pretty heavy texture for what I've seen from Advance. I'm curious as to how a microfiber would work and if that would give you a smoother surface.


That's regal select matte


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Proalliance coatings said:


> i'm stumped. That's a pretty heavy texture for what I've seen from Advance. I'm curious as to how a microfiber would work and if that would give you a smoother surface.


As he said, RS Matte rather than Advance; microfiber doesn't tend to work as nicely on lower sheen products imho, so that probably wouldn't be my solution. Honestly, I usually just recommend the good ol' Purdy White Dove.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Bender said:


> That's regal select matte


That's even worse! That shouldn't show much stipple at all.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Woodford said:


> As he said, RS Matte rather than Advance; microfiber doesn't tend to work as nicely on lower sheen products imho, so that probably wouldn't be my solution. Honestly, I usually just recommend the good ol' Purdy White Dove.


If I remember what my old BM rep told me, the BM white woven are Pro-doo-z's without the yellow stripe. Who knows for sure but BM?


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

The BM branded brushes are Woosters. If anyone's curious I'd be happy to figure out who actually makes the rollers; they don't actually try to hide the info, it's just not printed on the label for obvious reasons.


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## CRS (Apr 13, 2013)

I bet the advance would spray like a dream with the fine finish tips. Titan 2:12, etc.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

CRS said:


> I bet the advance would spray like a dream with the fine finish tips. Titan 2:12, etc.



It does. We use 3-10 mostly. 4-10 on doors


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