# Lingering Paint Fumes



## En-TACT (Oct 18, 2012)

Hello,

Painted a master bedroom with 2 gallons of BEHR Premium Plus Self-Priming Interior Flat Enamel paint for a friend. After having the windows opened all day, he has been having headaches sleeping in the bedroom and also when sitting in his office room, the room is next to the bedroom and it was not painted. After a week I came back and there was a faint of paint fumes. We decided to leave all the windows open, and after a week, he returned to sleep in the bedroom but still having headaches from the 2 rooms only.

Never experiencing this before I was puzzled by the whole ordeal, then we did the following:

1. Applied BIN Zinsser Clear Odor Blocker Sealer in the bedroom and office.
2. Painted both rooms with Valspar (Eddie Bauer) paint.

After a week paint smell is not noticeable. However, he is still having headaches from both rooms. I helped him in the past to paint other rooms in the house, using the BEHR paint, before it was changed to Self-Priming. No problems.

Now it has been a month with no solution. Problem is worst when he runs the heat. The whole house is filled with VOCs or soemthing. Currently, he ordered a VOC kit from a lab to have the air tested. Anyone experience this? ..or know why the cause of what we think of lingering VOCs trapped in the walls?


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

Voc's or solvent normally are gone within the first 24 hours of application depending on the paint formula. The Behr product mentioned is a low voc formula or none? Sounds like your friend is just really sensitive to odor. Kind of sucks that you had to paint twice with the same result, but the Sherwin-Williams Harmony line is a zero voc tinted with zero voc colorants and has odor absorbing properties. Lucky you did not use oil!!


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

Call your behr rep. If they even exist?


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Not saying it isn't cause and effect but how does the customer _know_ his headaches are caused by the paint "fumes"? Sometimes I think much of this is in the customer's heads. They anticipate fumes, get a headache from the anxiety, and then they are convinced there is an issue. 

Unless he is hyper-sensitive (which could be the case) it seems unlikely there should still be an issue this far out. If there truly is, I don't see where any product you might use would solve the problem.

At this point I think you've gone above and beyond in helping to solve this. Hopefully you are getting paid for the extra work since this isn't your fault by any means. I guess my final attempt would involve speaking with a supplier from SW (maybe the Harmony as Mike suggested), BM, or a trusted regional brand as to what zero VOC product of theirs also has the least amount of odor (I personally think some of the zero VOC paints actually smell more). Do it one final time (getting paid for it) with what they suggest and call it done. Sorry, that's all I have.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

ProWallGuy said:


> Call your behr rep. If they even exist?


They exist. Same as unicorns


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

Zero VOC actually has nothing to do with indoor air quality. It is about ozone depleting chemicals. BUT- SOME of them are really low odor. Some also don't perform as paints as well either. 

I would look for ones that claim Low odor over low or no voc's..


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## En-TACT (Oct 18, 2012)

He never had these symptoms before. This problem started the day we finished painting. I feel somewhat responsible since I selected the brand. 

He is waiting on the test lab's analysis, what molecules they find. I was thinking about an Ozone generator. But unsure how safe.. was reading they can change molecular structures and create something else.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

You sound like a really nice person. I don't think you should feel guilty or responsible in the least. You were using a name brand product which meets and exceeds federal specifications. Likewise, as I mentioned previously I don't think you should be doing these repaints for free. If there are problems it's obviously the paint causing them - not the person who applied it.

You said he didn't have these problems before you painted. Even so, I still don't think that totally eliminates the possibility that he "worried" himself into this situation. But, that's a point you likely don't want to bring up with him.


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

BrushJockey said:


> Zero VOC actually has nothing to do with indoor air quality. It is about ozone depleting chemicals. BUT- SOME of them are really low odor. Some also don't perform as paints as well either.
> 
> I would look for ones that claim Low odor over low or no voc's..


I disagree, zero VOC has everything to do with indoor air-quality. They have no "ozone depleting chemicals"!! Some zero products will have more smell than others depending on the antimicrobial package in them. Cheaper zero paints will not have any antimicrobial properties and probably will smell better, but the end result is still a small layer of plastic that protects the wall, nothing more nothing less than a regular can of paint.

You can still have low odor products that have considerable amounts of voc, due to masking agents put in the product. Still bad for indoor air-quality vs a low or zero product.


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

The VOC rules apply Volatile Organic Compounds, and was made to comply with federal regs that involve Ozone depletion( Greenhouse gases) . That is what the regs were for.
I believe for instance, that ammonia, which many primers use, is not on the list for VOCs. Lots of ammonia does affect indoor air quality. 

Now I do think that most paint companies do get the the average HO really doesnt buy paint because it is safe for the ozone. So they use that rap but try and make low odor paint, because that does matter to the HO. 

And some things that you can't smell might not be good for you...

There is so much smoke and mirrors in this chemestry game, but by and large improvements in both air quality and paint performance is coming along. I don't know if i'd put Behr at the top of the list though. In fact...


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## En-TACT (Oct 18, 2012)

Can VOCs penetrate drywall.. and possibly be trapped/seeping between walls of two rooms?


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## wje (Apr 11, 2009)

It sounds like your friend is the only headache in this scenario.


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

En-TACT said:


> Can VOCs penetrate drywall.. and possibly be trapped/seeping between walls of two rooms?


No, absolutely not!! Voc's are the evaporating solvents in anything, including paint. Water is a solvent, just has no voc. In water base paints, the voc's come from alcohol variations like glycol and surfactants (soap). Once the paint is dry, only a small fraction of any voc will remain left to escape. I would offer a scented candle?


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

I wouldn't worry about the whole thing at all were I the OP. Your buddy is probably a hypochondriac to some extent. Ignore it. It'll go away.


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## gabe (Apr 20, 2012)

You are assuming that VOC is causing the headache , could be that he is allergic to one of the ingredients in regular paint, like latex. There is natural paint, milk paint and other "natural paint". He should go see an allergist. We deal with a lot of issues as a painter and get blamed for a lot of bs.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

BrushJockey said:


> Zero VOC actually has nothing t o do with indoor air quality. It is about ozone depleting chemicals. BUT- SOME of them are really low odor. Some also don't perform as paints as well either.
> 
> I would look for ones that claim Low odor over low or no voc's..


The whole VOC thing with paints is about their contribution to photochemical smog. That's why it all started with the SCAQMD in southern CA. It's been picked up as a marketing gimmick by some of the paint companies trying to sell them as healthier. Some are, some aren't. There's a whole list of chemicals that aren't VOCs, things like Acetone, methylene chloride, and 1,1,1, trichloroethane. The latter was used early on in low-VOC paints. It didn't cause smog, but it did kill some painters. 

By the way, trichloroethane, while not a VOC, is being phased out because it does contribute to ozone depletion.


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## painttheusahouston (Oct 19, 2012)

researchhound said:


> Not saying it isn't cause and effect but how does the customer _know_ his headaches are caused by the paint "fumes"? Sometimes I think much of this is in the customer's heads. They anticipate fumes, get a headache from the anxiety, and then they are convinced there is an issue.
> 
> Unless he is hyper-sensitive (which could be the case) it seems unlikely there should still be an issue this far out. If there truly is, I don't see where any product you might use would solve the problem.
> 
> At this point I think you've gone above and beyond in helping to solve this. Hopefully you are getting paid for the extra work since this isn't your fault by any means. I guess my final attempt would involve speaking with a supplier from SW (maybe the Harmony as Mike suggested), BM, or a trusted regional brand as to what zero VOC product of theirs also has the least amount of odor (I personally think some of the zero VOC paints actually smell more). Do it one final time (getting paid for it) with what they suggest and call it done. Sorry, that's all I have.


This was my first impression as well. There isn't much more you can do. I would have a talk with him and see if you can bring it to a resolution.


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

+1 on the scented candle.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

Call him the wah-mbulance.


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## Brian C (Oct 8, 2011)

He might be trying to get out of paying you for the job ! He could sue for poisoning him with paint fumes.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Definitely not the OP's fault. You never mentioned if you were paid or paid for extra work. I guess that's just part of the puzzle. Hope it all works out. I'm guessing it will get better with time.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

I was painting a JcPennys last year using SW Harmony and the hair salon employees were complaining about the smell. One said it gave her such a bad headache that she went home. Mind you I wasn't painting the hair salon but the lobby outside of it. Some people are just complainers and hypochondriacs, and customers problem is in his head. BTW have you ever smelt hair dye? That's some nasty stuff but apparently Harmony is worse.


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## HollyRick (Nov 10, 2015)

*My solution to lingering paint odor*

A week after priming and painting my son's bedroom, the smell was still overwhelming, even after using fans and opening windows everyday. After reading lots of ideas from others with the same problem, I used this solution: I closed off the room for 2 days and ran a small space heater for about 10 hours a day in an effort to "bake" the paint to be sure it was completely dry. I also put 2 large Moso Bamboo Charcoal bags (from The Container Store) in the room to absorb the odors. 
The heater caused temperatures to reach as high as 95. I turned the heater off at night and with normal furnace use the room stayed at about 75 degrees. The smell traveled just a little to other parts of the house, but the room was already smelling so much better. On the third day I removed the heater and opened all the windows and turned on all the fans in the whole house (I got lucky with a 50+ degree day in early November.) I left the house for about 8 hours and let the whole house air out. 
This process made a HUGE difference in the room and there is very little odor left at all. I have been accused of having a Super Sniffer nose, and this really worked for me. No resealing or repainting, thank goodness!


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## allaboutfun (Apr 2, 2015)

wje said:


> It sounds like your friend is the only headache in this scenario.


Or maybe the color he picked is giving him the headache 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

or maybe this thread was beat to death 3 years ago, but what do I know.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Never mind a good stinky behr story! Carry on!


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

daArch said:


> or maybe this thread was beat to death 3 years ago, but what do I know.


Well, I missed this thread three years ago. 

Did you notice the fearmongering phrases? Indoor air quality, ozone and my favorite...photochemical smog.


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## GR8painter (Dec 18, 2014)

Maybe its his wife... they can sometimes be volatile organic compounds, and can often be the source of unexplained headaches :wallbash:


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

epretot said:


> Well, I missed this thread three years ago.
> 
> Did you notice the fearmongering phrases? Indoor air quality, ozone and my favorite...photochemical smog.


You forgot the big one-psychosomatic! The worst components for the human body in water based paint has no odor and is voc compliant.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

HollyRick said:


> A week after priming and painting my son's bedroom, the smell was still overwhelming, even after using fans and opening windows everyday. After reading lots of ideas from others with the same problem, I used this solution: I closed off the room for 2 days and ran a small space heater for about 10 hours a day in an effort to "bake" the paint to be sure it was completely dry. I also put 2 large Moso Bamboo Charcoal bags (from The Container Store) in the room to absorb the odors.
> The heater caused temperatures to reach as high as 95. I turned the heater off at night and with normal furnace use the room stayed at about 75 degrees. The smell traveled just a little to other parts of the house, but the room was already smelling so much better. On the third day I removed the heater and opened all the windows and turned on all the fans in the whole house (I got lucky with a 50+ degree day in early November.) I left the house for about 8 hours and let the whole house air out.
> This process made a HUGE difference in the room and there is very little odor left at all. I have been accused of having a Super Sniffer nose, and this really worked for me. No resealing or repainting, thank goodness!


Or, use a paint that has very low odor.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

gabe said:


> You are assuming that VOC is causing the headache , could be that he is allergic to one of the ingredients in regular paint, like latex. There is natural paint, milk paint and other "natural paint". He should go see an allergist. We deal with a lot of issues as a painter and get blamed for a lot of bs.


I don't know about seeing an allergist, but I know that I've painted for people with latex sensitivities (thanks for telling me after the fact....smh...) with similar results. I now ask homeowners if anyone has allergies or sensitivities to avoid these issues.

Not sure about a solution other than what has been offered already.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

The "latex" that they are supposedly allergic is NOT a component of ANY latex paint anymore. It hasn't been for many years. The "latex" term referred to with modern water based paints is a lingering misnomer from the 40's and 50's. The latex they are supposedly allergic to is the natural rubber like substance used in gloves, and even that is usually a synthetic. Natural latex is just far to expensive to be used in almost anything anymore.

According to my dermatologist who had me get checked by an allergist for my skin problems, there is no known component in "latex" paint that causes a true allergic reaction. There can be respiratory reactions such as asthma, but they are not true clinical allergic reactions.

To put it bluntly, and with no "bedside manner" whatsoever (who me? Really?), almost all reactions to paint in someone without an existing respiratory condition are......whats that word again.....let me scroll up a bit........psychosomatic! But there are more than a few paint companies who are very willing to exploit these reactions to their advantage so they can mark up their O and low voc paints to create more profit for them!


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## papernpaste (Dec 10, 2009)

The friend's headaches could be psychosomatic (that's when your physical problems are in your head) but, he could be allergic to something in the paint. It is isn't your problem, even if YOU chose the paint brand. The only POSSIBLE solution would be to repaint with another brand and the friend would have to bear the expense. Fumes are gone with evaporation. Latex cures in 48-72 hours, max. It's an allergy or psychosomatic.


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