# "Green" Equipment



## DarthPainter (Jul 26, 2009)

You knew someone would have to start this thread.

So, anyways, what kind of "green" equipment (i.e. roller covers, brushes, caulking, etc) have you used, and what were your experiences with them?

I'll start: I have used SMART caulking, non-shrink spackling and the Whizz green 9 inch roller covers, and the 2 1/2'' brushes. I've also used the Purdy EcoPro Glide 2 1/2''.

The caulking and spackling performed about as expected, though the the spackling seemed to have a very long dry time compared to some other brands I typically use.

The Whizz roller covers are fairly decent, but nothing to write home about; the brush was terrible. It became a duster more or less after day one, which is why I bought the Purdy Brush.

The Purdy works about as well as can be expected of a single filament type brush; it kind of reminds me of the ProVal Brushes that SW sells. They're a few steps above the average Wal-Mart brush, but not much. They don't release paint very evenly, cut in very smoothly or brush out that nicely. Still, it wasn't as bad as the Whizz.

Overall, I'd really like to find some good, quality, "green" equipment to use. I used this stuff on a small job I did for a friend (of the very attractive, female persuasion) who wanted to feel good about her decision to remodel her apartment without damaging the enviroment...too badly. Needless to say, it was a trial run using equipment and supplies I either found locally or got cheaply on line.

Also, I recycle all my Harmony and ProGreen buckets into cut buckets, so I think that counts too!


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## flowjo (Apr 25, 2009)

i want to use that natura paint but the opportunity hasnt come up yet im tempted to just go buy a quart and use some on my trim at home or whatever lol... but i can honestly say the direction these companies are taking especially with the low to zero VOC count is something i very much respect we as painters have to work with some very unhealthy materials that kill us in the long run and put crap into the ozone. I really hope one day all the latex paint worldwide become as organic as possible i know this sounds chessy but its gonna help everyone in the long run especially us painters.

as far as the rollers and brushes i mean its a good idea and all but truthfully i keep everything i never throw any of my tools away anyways my brushes turn into dusters which i have a nice collection of or give some away or whatever and my sleeves i take very good care of they last me forever i throw a sleeve out maybe once a year. i barely use oil if i do i generally throw it out no ones perfect lol


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## dustyrose (Apr 19, 2009)

How do you go green with painting equipment? Buy quality tools that you can use over and over again. That is all you can do. The "green" is in the paint product itself.


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## DarthPainter (Jul 26, 2009)

dustyrose said:


> How do you go green with painting equipment? Buy quality tools that you can use over and over again. That is all you can do. The "green" is in the paint product itself.


On one hand, this is very true. However, I have to disagree with your sentiment a bit as well; for something to be "green" (I use quotes only because the definition is so broad atm) in my book it has to be environmentally friendly and renewable from the start, from the materials to the manufacturing process, all the way down.

And, the other reason I'm interested in "green" tools is because while I don't really feel that humans are impacting the environment as negatively as some would proclaim (my views on this matter and global climate changes are fairly radical, so I'll keep it short) I'm a huge supporter or recycling. I'm not so concerned with environmental impact as I am logistics. The simple truth is that people are living longer and birthrates are up; more people = less resources per capita. Barring terraforming another world and moving, recycling is our only real option for conservation of resources.

I love painting and brushes and living a life of vices and excess :innocent:, but at the end of the day, we're all stuck on this rock together and need to make due with what we have.

So, long story short, I'm a fan of reducing the impact that we have on our natural resources, and going "green" is a very appealing way of doing this. That it will positively affect my bottom line with customers is also a plus.

flowjo, I also want to try Natura, but the closest BM dealer is over an hour away. Not worth the trip for one gallon. I've used Harmony and ProGreen extensively with very good results. Right now, my biggest concern is finding a nice set of "green" tools. Don't get me wrong, I'm not planning on parting with my Cortezes, ClearCuts, Pro-Extras or Pro Doo-z's, but having a back up set of nice tools never hurts. If they get them to the point where I can feel confident that they will give me the performance I expect from my tools, or a close approximation, then I have no problem making the jump.


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## flowjo (Apr 25, 2009)

ya i know you like your coronas thats one company i cant see going that route the company itself has this hardened old school feel and i think alot of quality is going to be compromised in their brushes if they decide to venture but really i use like 2 -3 brushes then they turn into dusters a good year from the time i buy them so in reality i dont have a huge footprint when it comes to rollers or brushes but as the paint goes yes its a good move for the industry as a whole.

im really not liking these new plastic lids for the gallons though i know they are more enviromentally friendly but **** man i can never get the damn thing back on at the end of the day can we just make the cans from recycled metals?? i dont get it... if you dont know what im talking about use Pittsburg paints a lil more and youll see.

yo darth did you try those BM brushes yet? im telling you man give them a try they rule


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

DarthPainter said:


> in my book it has to be environmentally friendly and renewable from the start, from the materials to the manufacturing process, all the way down.


Don't bite off your nose to spite your face.

Efficiency saves the environment as well. If you have to struggle to get tools to function for you, that is not efficient.

Sanding out extra hairs from crappy finish rollers is not environmentally friendly. Putting the extra coat on to fix where all the extra roller hairs were is not environmentally friendly. Taking 4 hours to cut something in as opposed to 3.5 hours means you have on less half hour of wages to use for properly disposing solvents etc.

Efficiency = time. Time is a resource that can be used to sort recycling, weatherize your dwelling, tend to compost etc.

Time is a very precious resource.

Do not waste it.

(Everyone stop posting on internet forums this instant!!!)


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

I don't think it is only the VOC in the paint that makes a difference.
A dark colour Harmony, or Pure Performance is not ECO at all.
Also a light coloured zero VOC paint one may not be either.
For example Acetone does not count as a VOC as it is not airbourne. But Acetone is not maple syrup.
What companies use to make their paints VOC compliant may be worse than what they are trying to comply with: 
http://www.ecopainting.ca/abou_zero_voc_paints.art.html

We are revisiting everything and use our blog to get the discussion going.

http://paintingtoronto.ca/category/green-painters/

We have a designated Environmental representative and her role is to get things going.
At the end of this process we should have our Environmental Policies Manual, we can follow.


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## DarthPainter (Jul 26, 2009)

flowjo said:


> ya i know you like your coronas thats one company i cant see going that route the company itself has this hardened old school feel and i think alot of quality is going to be compromised in their brushes if they decide to venture but really i use like 2 -3 brushes then they turn into dusters a good year from the time i buy them so in reality i dont have a huge footprint when it comes to rollers or brushes but as the paint goes yes its a good move for the industry as a whole.
> 
> im really not liking these new plastic lids for the gallons though i know they are more enviromentally friendly but **** man i can never get the damn thing back on at the end of the day can we just make the cans from recycled metals?? i dont get it... if you dont know what im talking about use Pittsburg paints a lil more and youll see.
> 
> yo darth did you try those BM brushes yet? im telling you man give them a try they rule


Haha, I love my Coronas, but I'm not someone who is unwilling to use anything else, either. I still love Purdy's, too; and while Wooster isn't really my company of choice, I still respect their products, too. If anyone can make a better brush than the Corona, I'll use it; if it's made of recycled material, all the better.

And I have used the Benjamin Moore brushes. They are indeed great brushes, but they just feel like most Wooster brushes I like. A guy I know swears by them, though.

Last Craftsman, that's not really a fair assessment. It sounds good and all, but you're assuming that good brushes and roller covers can't be made from recycled materials, which is a fairly baseless assumption. I'm not saying that what's on the market now is good; it's not. But that doesn't preclude future products from being as capable as the current crop of high end tools.

And while you make some valid arguments, at the end of the day, I still have to sand in between primer and first coats anyways because of the drywall hair standing up and overspray, so it's not hurting me anyways. And there are quite a few people who don't use roller covers that aren't shed resistant anyways, having them use recycled products of equivalent caliber _is_ more environmentally free because they'll being taking those steps either way, but at least their tools were made of recycled goods.


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## flowjo (Apr 25, 2009)

i think this enviro tool market is more geared towards that DIY crowd im pretty sure those tools will never meet our expectations maybe in the roller sleeves they will be usable but as far as a brush goes i need perfection i need that type of brush i buy to be the exact same every time. unfortunatley when we recycle materials the product never ends up being consistently equal its ok for cardboard or plastic bottles but when it comes to a tool i need everyday and to produce the exact same finish every time it starts to become compromised i notice the smallest imperfections and faults of any brush i use i get frustrated if a brush isnt performing the way i need it to ill throw it across the room threw a wall LOL jk but ill want to


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

flowjo said:


> i think this enviro tool market is more geared towards that DIY crowd im pretty sure those tools will never meet our expectations maybe in the roller sleeves they will be usable but as far as a brush goes i need perfection i need that type of brush i buy to be the exact same every time. unfortunatley when we recycle materials the product never ends up being consistently equal its ok for cardboard or plastic bottles but when it comes to a tool i need everyday and to produce the exact same finish every time it starts to become compromised i notice the smallest imperfections and faults of any brush i use i get frustrated if a brush isnt performing the way i need it to ill throw it across the room threw a wall LOL jk but ill want to


I don't know - that sounds like a pretty naive statement. I am sure there are processes that completely break down materials to gain a certain amount of consistency. Once you can determine a predictable outcome of those materials, I would think (eventually) they could come up with a comparable product.


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## flowjo (Apr 25, 2009)

fresh coat said:


> I don't know - that sounds like a pretty naive statement. I am sure there are processes that completely break down materials to gain a certain amount of consistency. Once you can determine a predictable outcome of those materials, I would think (eventually) they could come up with a comparable product.


ya comparable but not the same i wouldnt mind if they made the handle or the metal piece of the brushes out of recycles material but as far as the bristles go no way man they wont be the exact same all of these brush companies are trying to find this perfect blend of materials, stifness retention and brushless finishing they will have a hard time with recycled material trust me


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

flowjo said:


> ya comparable but not the same i wouldnt mind if they made the handle or the metal piece of the brushes out of recycles material but as far as the bristles go no way man they wont be the exact same all of these brush companies are trying to find this perfect blend of materials, stifness retention and brushless finishing they will have a hard time with recycled material trust me


Just sayin' - keep that mind wide open.


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

flowjo said:


> im really not liking these new plastic lids for the gallons though i know they are more enviromentally friendly but **** man i can never get the damn thing back on at the end of the day can we just make the cans from recycled metals?? i dont get it... if you dont know what im talking about use Pittsburg paints a lil more and youll see.


Ugh, could not agree more! S.W. is whoring the bio~green~Gore~crapola cans too.

I have an old metal can in my backyard rusting apart after 9 months, one of those plastic cans will *never* biodegrade...

You hear me all you "carbon footprint" global warming lap dogs of Al Gore's fear machine?!?

Once we fill our cars with more than 1 person when we drive to get a Big Mac *THEN* we can call ourselves concerned earth residents.
Or reduce the pollution in China or India where the reality of how bad _they_ are screwing up the world would cause a hippie to commit ritual suicide.

The earth scrubs our air through _many_ different means, trees/plants, the fast moving saline filled ocean air, etc.
We can only stand in amazement at how the earth takes care of itself, and for those that claim the world is "overpopulated", take a look at a night time satellite map...plenny of room for more peeps yo!

sorry, rant over.


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## In Demand (Mar 24, 2008)

I dont really care about going green, it is paint, it is supposed to stink.
I know a guy who bought a brand new hybrid car to save the planet, I told him I was installing a 4 barrel carb on my van to use up the fuel he was trying to save.


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## flowjo (Apr 25, 2009)

WisePainter said:


> Ugh, could not agree more! S.W. is whoring the bio~green~Gore~crapola cans too.
> 
> I have an old metal can in my backyard rusting apart after 9 months, one of those plastic cans will *never* biodegrade...
> 
> ...


the earth is very much like our own body it can take years of abuse and has its own means of detoxifying but anything biological can become ill as well as heal itself VOCs kill us and the earth thats a proven fact. we know the ozone layer has a hole in it we know ice caps are melting we know kids have many more allergies and adults later in life we know we are getting more rain we know coral reefs are diminishing slowly it might be a matter of time till it just all collapses just like your body reacts if you were to have hiv or cancer slowly ,,slowly but surely


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

flowjo said:


> the earth is very much like our own body it can take years of abuse and has its own means of detoxifying but anything biological can become ill as well as heal itself VOCs kill us and the earth thats a proven fact. we know the ozone layer has a hole in it we know ice caps are melting we know kids have many more allergies and adults later in life we know we are getting more rain we know coral reefs are diminishing slowly it might be a matter of time till it just all collapses just like your body reacts if you were to have hiv or cancer slowly ,,slowly but surely


Have you been up to take a look at this "hole" in the ozone layer for yourself, or been diving personally to observe the reefs, how can you be sure that the melting ice caps and bunches of rain isn't just a natural event? 
We really don't know anything about the earth's cycles having only been forecasting them for roughly 100 years (using true science), and only lately have we begun to care because it's "trendy" all of a sudden.
Let's discuss how the earth reclaimed the disaster that was created during the turn of the century when robber baron industrialists destroyed the environment.
All but a few traces remain of their distruction because ole Mother earth is bigger and badder than any polluting human, and not because we have any hand in it.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

You guys should start an off topic thread for this. the OT will be long forgotten after the countless pages this debate could go on.


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

Workaholic said:


> You guys should start an off topic thread for this. the OT will be long forgotten after the countless pages this debate could go on.


That's debatable!

I have used ProGreen 200 and found it to be comparable to Duration home for coverage and ease of use.
The price is good too.

As for the ProGreen line of rollers and brushes, my inside SW source steered me away from them.


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## flowjo (Apr 25, 2009)

WisePainter said:


> Have you been up to take a look at this "hole" in the ozone layer for yourself, or been diving personally to observe the reefs, how can you be sure that the melting ice caps and bunches of rain isn't just a natural event?
> We really don't know anything about the earth's cycles having only been forecasting them for roughly 100 years (using true science), and only lately have we begun to care because it's "trendy" all of a sudden.
> Let's discuss how the earth reclaimed the disaster that was created during the turn of the century when robber baron industrialists destroyed the environment.
> All but a few traces remain of their distruction because ole Mother earth is bigger and badder than any polluting human, and not because we have any hand in it.


well we all have our own opinions and mine is the earth is living!!! what would happen if you were in your closed garage with your car running...???
the earth has ways of dealing with the toxins but as we pump out more and more the earth works that much harder to keep itself clean its just like an alcoholic after a while the liver become scarred and fatty it will cease to work just look at it that way... everything living plus the actual earth where we came from is biological man didnt create it man is creating things that our bodies and the earth must adjust to trust me its only a matter of time do you honestly think everything is a scam just thiink about it in a biological way


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

flowjo said:


> well we all have our own opinions and mine is the earth is living!!! what would happen if you were in your closed garage with your car running...???
> the earth has ways of dealing with the toxins but as we pump out more and more the earth works that much harder to keep itself clean its just like an alcoholic after a while the liver become scarred and fatty it will cease to work just look at it that way... everything living plus the actual earth where we came from is biological man didnt create it man is creating things that our bodies and the earth must adjust to trust me its only a matter of time do you honestly think everything is a scam just thiink about it in a biological way


Workaholic says shush it.

The earth is not "human" silly hippie.

:thumbsup:


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## flowjo (Apr 25, 2009)

its biological


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

shush.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

WisePainter said:


> Workaholic says shush it.
> 
> The earth is not "human" silly hippie.
> 
> :thumbsup:


lol no not shush it, just start a new thread in the off topic for the debate and keep on keeping on.


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

killjoy.


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## flowjo (Apr 25, 2009)

ya it was one of those momentary things i dont wanna argue over this stuff my views are different i will only get bashed


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

flowjo said:


> ya it was one of those momentary things i dont wanna argue over this stuff my views are different i will only get bashed


Apology accepted.


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## flowjo (Apr 25, 2009)

WisePainter said:


> Apology accepted.


??? im not apologizing i didnt say anything wrong LOL


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

mkay.

shushupologisticalosity.


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## DarthPainter (Jul 26, 2009)

flowjo said:


> i think this enviro tool market is more geared towards that DIY crowd im pretty sure those tools will never meet our expectations maybe in the roller sleeves they will be usable but as far as a brush goes i need perfection i need that type of brush i buy to be the exact same every time. unfortunatley when we recycle materials the product never ends up being consistently equal its ok for cardboard or plastic bottles but when it comes to a tool i need everyday and to produce the exact same finish every time it starts to become compromised i notice the smallest imperfections and faults of any brush i use i get frustrated if a brush isnt performing the way i need it to ill throw it across the room threw a wall LOL jk but ill want to



This is a good point, but the reality is that recycled materials can be broken down fairly far back down to their original structures. Think of it like smelting iron; you can "burn off" any impurities and bring it back to a good, normal state, and then you simply melt all the "new" material together to ensure homogenization.

I think the major issue as to why "green" tools aren't that good is something you've hit square in the nose: these are uninformed, but concerned, DIYer trends moreso than industry standards. Until the "green" movement takes root in commercial painting, I can't see us getting the kind of tools we want.

Also, please create an off topic thread for your debate. I find it highly interesting and wouldn't mind seeing it continue and maybe throwing in my own 2 cents, though my thoughts are pretty in line with WisePainter's.


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## In Demand (Mar 24, 2008)




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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

ModernStyle said:


> I know a guy who bought a brand new hybrid car to save the planet, I told him I was installing a 4 barrel carb on my van to use up the fuel he was trying to save.



Kewl. I am always impressed by tough people. Being proud of wasting things is extra tough. 

Nothin' tougher than a man who just doesn't give a f*ck.

That takes huevos. :thumbup:


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## Metro M & L (Jul 21, 2009)

On the plastic can lid issue I think it's pretty obvious the object of the exercise is to WASTE paint and require you to buy another gallon once the old one gets bricked.


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

> The earth is not "human" silly hippie.


"Silly Hippie" rules :thumbsup:

The only science supporting mob ignorance is funded by Exxon Mobil.
Trace the money.


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## In Demand (Mar 24, 2008)

Last Craftsman said:


> Kewl. I am always impressed by tough people. Being proud of wasting things is extra tough.
> 
> Nothin' tougher than a man who just doesn't give a f*ck.
> 
> That takes huevos. :thumbup:


Yeah, PM me and I send you a pic of them


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

ModernStyle said:


> Yeah, PM me and I send you a pic of them



I can assure you that no thought has ever crossed my mind that involved me seeing your huevos. 

However, you apparently are having thoughts that involve me seeing them.


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

Ok, what are huevos?
Some sort of green equipment?

Our second language here is French.


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## flowjo (Apr 25, 2009)

George Z said:


> Ok, what are huevos?
> Some sort of green equipment?
> 
> Our second language here is French.


LOL im sure you can figure it out


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## flowjo (Apr 25, 2009)

hey george z how come all the guys from toronto are coming to ottawa they are taking jobs away from the ottawa guys especially all over mattamy


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

flowjo said:


> hey george z how come all the guys from toronto are coming to ottawa they are taking jobs away from the ottawa guys especially all over mattamy


I know nothing about that.
I still have all my painters.
Probably the Alberta crowd coming through here.
We don't do new construction anyway.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

I really havent seen that much green equipment that is contractor friendly. And I cant see throwing out my inventory to start using green. It wouldnt bother me to use green paints but once the tints are added there goes the whole green issue.

I do know that printers are using soy based inks now so maybe soy based tints and paints arent too far off.


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## DarthPainter (Jul 26, 2009)

Wolfgang said:


> I really havent seen that much green equipment that is contractor friendly. And I cant see throwing out my inventory to start using green. It wouldnt bother me to use green paints but once the tints are added there goes the whole green issue.
> 
> I do know that printers are using soy based inks now so maybe soy based tints and paints arent too far off.


Yeah, I haven't had supremely good experiences either, but I do have hope that we're not too far off from that. And while I agree that I wouldn't throw away my current tools, many of our tools are consumable items: paint brushes, roller covers, etc, are not meant to last forever.

I don't know how feasible soy would be as a paint tint; since it still breaks down fairly quickly. One of the oxymora of "green" painting is that paint is supposed to last a long time, hopefully even a lifetime or more, but the focus of "green" work is to develop products that intentionally degrade.


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

Wolfgang said:


> It wouldnt bother me to use green paints but once the tints are added there goes the whole green issue.


 
That is solved already, no?
Benjamin Moore waterbourne colourants in Natura and Waterbourne Ecospec. almost zero VOC at any colour.


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## ShadesofGreen (Aug 26, 2009)

ModernStyle said:


>


Looks like your avatar.


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## JAYJAY (Sep 13, 2008)

Have had zero clients interested in "green" alternatives. 

*"Going green" is just another marketing tool for corporate America to charge more to fix something that was never broken!*

*Mother earth is not your mother, your mother is your mother.*


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## ShadesofGreen (Aug 26, 2009)

*Partly Responsible*



JAYJAY said:


> Have had zero clients interested in "green" alternatives.
> 
> *"Going green" is just another marketing tool for corporate America to charge more to fix something that was never broken!*
> 
> *Mother earth is not your mother, your mother is your mother.*


I quoted you in another thread because I liked it, but not so here. It's half our responsibility to make the right choice. Would you pour toxic chemicals on someone's lawn if they paid you to? You might, but it would be irresponsible.

Also, people's opinions or beliefs do not constitute the truth. You would be ignorant to state that there is no such thing as toxicity in man-made chemicals.


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## JAYJAY (Sep 13, 2008)

ShadesofGreen said:


> I quoted you in another thread because I liked it, but not so here. It's half our responsibility to make the right choice. Would you pour toxic chemicals on someone's lawn if they paid you to? You might, but it would be irresponsible.
> 
> Also, people's opinions or beliefs do not constitute the truth. You would be ignorant to state that there is no such thing as toxicity in man-made chemicals.


Thx for the quoting! 

Anyhow, my overall view is there are many people that stand to benefit financially from the "go big green" movement (eh Al Gore and his carbon credits soon to be traded like stocks) to make it something I can blindly hitch my wagon to. Yes, chemicals randomly put anywhere are not what we are talking about. Let not cloud the discussion of coatings that require certain solvents, etc... to make them viable in the long term. I hope we develop "greener" products that make financial sense in our industry and economy wide, but not at the expense of standard of living.

Example: My father in law is a vice president at a local power coop and if Al Gore and the greenies have their way, everyone's electric rates will double, almost over night. 

If customers start demanding ECO-FRIENDLY solutions, I will offer them, but thus far no one from our residential repaints to our commercial work has demanded anything resembling a "greener" product. If some companies have found that to be a niche, then more power to them!


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## ShadesofGreen (Aug 26, 2009)

JAYJAY said:


> Thx for the quoting!
> 
> Anyhow, my overall view is there are many people that stand to benefit financially from the "go big green" movement (eh Al Gore and his carbon credits soon to be traded like stocks) to make it something I can blindly hitch my wagon to. Yes, chemicals randomly put anywhere are not what we are talking about. Let not cloud the discussion of coatings that require certain solvents, etc... to make them viable in the long term. I hope we develop "greener" products that make financial sense in our industry and economy wide, but not at the expense of standard of living.
> 
> ...


I agree that its a business decision as to whether you want to be exclusive about it. I'm not exclusive and I don't always use green tools, but I take steps even if it costs me a little bit. But if it takes away my ability to make a profit, I draw a line. I do try to educate customers, though.

I just don't like it when people deny things blindly. I'm not saying you are, though, so we're cool.


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

> If customers start demanding ECO-FRIENDLY solutions, I will offer them, but thus far no one from our residential repaints to our commercial work has demanded anything resembling a "greener" product


Did you not hear that this is what most manufacturers sell or say they sell now?
Someone obviously is using that stuff, just not you.
The ones that do need that service will get to the companies that say they offer them.
We have been Ecopainting Inc. for many years (who is Al Gore?)
Most residential and major commercial work we get is as a result of being eco.
But if opportunism is your motive, you will get nothing anyway.
I like to think consumers are smart and can see that "me too, zero VOC"
is just a bandwagon.
You think Benjamin Moore and others are jumping all over it and invest hundreds of millions because nobody wants it?

But I agree, companies do take advantage of the trend and make a killing


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## JAYJAY (Sep 13, 2008)

If some companies have found that to be a niche, then more power to them![/quote]:yes:

As I was saying....... we stay busy enough that we have seen no need to investigate ECO this or green that...

I would agree it seems you can hardly buy anything anymore that doesn't have a cute green brush on the label. Are they really filling a need, or just riding the current "the earth is on fire," tidal wave? Really it doesn't matter and if the product performs at a 95% efficacy that "non-green" products did, I guess we as contractors and stewards of earth, will continue to use them out of sense of duty.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Once again, let me reiterate that I am and have been sensitive to what mankind is doing to our planet since about 1968.

I've been "green" while it was still a color. 

Just face it, in order to survive as an organism, humans need to combat and change what this planet is. Humans, by nature, are not, never were, and never will be "eco-friendly". Earth is not "human friendly". We can not be 100% eco-friendly and survive. We can only adapt so much, after that we need to alter our living space. 

I also believe that many corporations are jumping on the eco-friendly bandwagon for the GREENING of their own wallets, NOT because of an innate sense of responsibility.

But that said, humans are slowly learning. We realized that lead in gasoline was causing great harm to our children. We learned that pouring solvents in a hole in the back yard was making the water taste funny. Ladies no longer paint radioactive isotopes on watch faces - losing their jaws and then their lives. 

I do believe that there is a growing awareness that everyone has, although some are reluctant to give up their old habits.

Remember, as I have said before, if "it" is being manufactured on a large scale, "it" is not eco-friendly. Manufacturing causes pollution. That's just a fact.

BUT, we do need coatings and equipment manufactured to fight the un-hospitable Earth we live on.

The most we can do, is to be sensible and not overly waste and pollute. 

They talk about how if you buy this energy saver and that energy saver, you will reduce our carbon footprint.

HA HA HA. Think about how quickly the population of the earth is multiplying. There is no way little curly-cue light bulbs and 40 mpg cars will "save the planet". The population growth and its need for energy is eclipsing any reduction we are making. I have been buying "energy-star" approved stuff for years. I do not think anything in the house doesn't have one of those stickers on it. Then WHY is my electricity usage still going up? Why? because we rely on more electrical toys than ever before. I can remember the days when one or two outlets were enough for my bed room. Now I need one or two on every wall. We are an energy hungry race. And we are not going to change no matter what. I'm not happy about this. I do sincerely try to change my habits, but there is nothing I can do to change anyone else's.

So, we really can't change the path the human race is on. If you are concerned about what it is doing to the planet, do what YOU can. What the heck, we're not here that long.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

It's fashionable to be young and progressive. Also known as YAP. Your typical YAP is college educated, techno savvy, and of course, enviro friendly. Nothing wrong with that, right? They're the ones who are going to teach us glutenous Baby Boomers, how to use the Earths natural resources in a sustainable manner. As if we never heard of "Don't pollute, give a hoot". remember that phrase? 

Most of us, I'd like to believe, are conscientious about our impact on the environment. The concern I have, is with the consumption of natural resources by an ever growing population. Countries like China, make our attempts to "Fight Global Warming" seem naive, and cliche, albeit progressive.

How can we take the YAPs green marketing machine seriously, when the bottom line is so transparent. 

Using milk based paints with trendy labels, or brushes made from recycled plastic, may have great marketing value for the progressives, but will it really help save the planet without true conservation?


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## JAYJAY (Sep 13, 2008)

daArch said:


> Once again, let me reiterate that I am and have been sensitive to what mankind is doing to our planet since about 1968.
> 
> I've been "green" while it was still a color.
> 
> ...


I love you arch my man, but the "over populating" third world countries do not have 4-5 outlets in their Mcmansions. They live in a hut of mud by the river. It's YAPS with 2.1 kids that are the problem as I see it. I would agrue larger families use the environment more responsibly then your YAPS. There are many specifics that could be discussed but, back to some PAINT talk please!


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## DarthPainter (Jul 26, 2009)

CApainter said:


> It's fashionable to be young and progressive. Also known as YAP. Your typical YAP is college educated, techno savvy, and of course, enviro friendly. Nothing wrong with that, right? They're the ones who are going to teach us glutenous Baby Boomers, how to use the Earths natural resources in a sustainable manner. As if we never heard of "Don't pollute, give a hoot". remember that phrase?
> 
> Most of us, I'd like to believe, are conscientious about our impact on the environment. The concern I have, is with the consumption of natural resources by an ever growing population. Countries like China, make our attempts to "Fight Global Warming" seem naive, and cliche, albeit progressive.
> 
> ...


Ha, color me guilty of being a YAP, then; although I would have to say that I wholly disagree with you in a few ways.

The baby boomers are the ones consuming the most resources: they are the ones who grew up in the gasoline/food conservation eras, and now that it's so freely and easily available and they have the disposable income, they have no problem buying far more than they require. My parents are a prime example: they buy so much food that never gets eaten that they could literally feed an entire block for a week if they wanted to.

Also, the vast majority of people are not conscientious about the environment and our impact on it, and even less care. Water bottles, newspapers, etc, all of which are easily recycled, tend to all end up in landfills rather than in a recycling bin.

And China is a major contributor to environmental pollution, but the blame can hardly be placed on them; the rest of the world demands that they manufacture goods at an increasingly smaller bottom line, and we somehow expect them to spend trillions in research to create methods of making our inexpensive junk environmentally conscious. It's no different than Britain or America's industrialization in the 1800's. You simply can't expect "third world countries" to have resources equal to our own.

The bottom line shouldn't be about environmental conservation: it simply won't work that way. We can't conserve the environment with our ever expanding populace. The bottom line should be about human survival over the next few hundred years through recycling and repurposing; investing in reducing the use of our natural resources is pointless.

Besides, mankind won't be much longer for this world anyways; the best we can hope for is a stay of execution.


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

DarthPainter said:


> Besides, mankind won't be much longer for this world anyways; the best we can hope for is a stay of execution.



Sweet dreams everyone!


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

DarthPainter said:


> Ha, color me guilty of being a YAP, then; although I would have to say that I wholly disagree with you in a few ways.
> 
> The baby boomers are the ones consuming the most resources: they are the ones who grew up in the gasoline/food conservation eras, and now that it's so freely and easily available and they have the disposable income, they have no problem buying far more than they require. My parents are a prime example: they buy so much food that never gets eaten that they could literally feed an entire block for a week if they wanted to.
> 
> ...


you might find this interesting...

http://www.progressive.org/mag/berry0909.html


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Darth,

As a card carrying baby boomer (1949) I will admit that some of my brothers and sisters are wanton consumers, but also be assured that many others do their utmost to conserve.

It's a fool's folly for any of us to point a finger at any demographic.

Hell, it's a fools folly to point a finger at anyone else. We all can do better. I am proud of my efforts to conserve, but I know I can do better.

It would be most productive to look within. The only one we can control is the self.


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## DarthPainter (Jul 26, 2009)

TJ Paint said:


> you might find this interesting...
> 
> http://www.progressive.org/mag/berry0909.html



Thank you; I did find it interesting. However, it also might as well be a volume of Lord of the Rings for how realistic it is. He preaches of needs first economic system; this is impossible without completely refashioning our government into one of socialism. Not that I'm against that, mind you. I'm a socialist democrat, actually. But try getting even one (non needy) Person to agree to being part of the big bad, scary Socialist government. This guy's going red not green.

Try telling someone that their kid doesn't deserve to go to college because it's not cost effective.

Ultimately, we're well past the point of conservationism of any kind working. It's going to take a catastrophic event and a decentralization of governments for conservation to ever be back on the list of possible solutions.

The only real hope for mankind is the colonization and terraforming of earth-like planets. How far are we from that? Far enough away that we might just have to duck our heads and kiss our asses good bye.

Don't get me wrong: this man is right, and I totally agree with him. He's a smart man. But smart men face one insurmountable obstacle: dumb people.

Besides, our planet is already failing (or if that's an uncomfortable term for you, try changing). The magnetic fields that protect us are weakening, and will continue to degenerate. This isn't a man-made problem; it's a naturally occurring event that happens on all planets with a molten iron core; they cool and lose their magnetic potency. It happened on Mars and Venus, and it will happen here.

Sorry, I'm a pessimist at heart when it comes to people; hence the reason I don't like "social networking". But at least all of this won't come to pass in our lifetime, but the next few generations are royally screwed.


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## DarthPainter (Jul 26, 2009)

daArch said:


> Darth,
> 
> As a card carrying baby boomer (1949) I will admit that some of my brothers and sisters are wanton consumers, but also be assured that many others do their utmost to conserve.
> 
> ...


I wish I had seen this before I posted, but oh well. Anyway, I'm not pointing any fingers. However, JAYJAY and capainter are insinuating that it's the Young Impressionables who are simply wasting their time because the "Baby Boomers" know better. Baby Boomers are amongst the largest consumers; it's been tracked time and time again. Are they solely responsible? Of course not. But they are certainly doing more than their fair share. A lot of it is a result of ignorance; until 10 years ago, the world was closed to us. It was very easy to ignore the suffering and problems of other countries because we weren't connected to them in any tangible way. Self serving attitudes were easy. The Younger kids are only truly proactive because they are made more aware, not because it's fashionable. It's a consequence of our progression in technology and communications.


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## JAYJAY (Sep 13, 2008)

daArch said:


> Darth,
> 
> As a card carrying baby boomer (1949) I will admit that some of my brothers and sisters are wanton consumers, but also be assured that many others do their utmost to conserve.
> 
> ...


Points well taken as always!


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## JAYJAY (Sep 13, 2008)

DarthPainter said:


> I wish I had seen this before I posted, but oh well. Anyway, I'm not pointing any fingers. However, JAYJAY and capainter are insinuating that it's the Young Impressionables who are simply wasting their time because the "Baby Boomers" know better. Baby Boomers are amongst the largest consumers; it's been tracked time and time again. Are they solely responsible? Of course not. But they are certainly doing more than their fair share. A lot of it is a result of ignorance; until 10 years ago, the world was closed to us. It was very easy to ignore the suffering and problems of other countries because we weren't connected to them in any tangible way. Self serving attitudes were easy. The Younger kids are only truly proactive because they are made more aware, not because it's fashionable. It's a consequence of our progression in technology and communications.


Yes and no...

We just did a repaint for a 40ish couple with three boys. They had four huge bedrooms on second floor, but I ended up referring my GC buddy to hurry up and get their basement remodel done (three bedrooms) so the boys could move downstairs because they (the boys) wanted more privacy. The house was 7000 sq feet - it soon will be almost 9200 finshed square feet for 5 people. 7 bedrooms/6bathrooms. Very efficient use of their carbon foot print - at least they are building down and not outward!


No LOW VOC products were used.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

the earth will take care of herself. when there gets to be too many people on it wreckin everything, the population will be trimmed down to a sustainable level again, either by disease, famine, or by our self-destructive genius. Mother nature knows how to handle a pain-in-the-ass.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

DarthPainter said:


> I wish I had seen this before I posted, but oh well. Anyway, I'm not pointing any fingers. However, JAYJAY and capainter are insinuating that it's the Young Impressionables who are simply wasting their time because the "Baby Boomers" know better. Baby Boomers are amongst the largest consumers; it's been tracked time and time again. Are they solely responsible? Of course not. But they are certainly doing more than their fair share. A lot of it is a result of ignorance; until 10 years ago, the world was closed to us. It was very easy to ignore the suffering and problems of other countries because we weren't connected to them in any tangible way. Self serving attitudes were easy. The Younger kids are only truly proactive because they are made more aware, not because it's fashionable. It's a consequence of our progression in technology and communications.


Darth, 
I was not insinuating that boomers know any better about environmental concerns then YAPs. I'm just pointing out that we have been aware of it a lot longer. Being green is nothing new. It just hasn't become part of our culture as much as we would have liked. 

The importance of recycling is recognized across the country, but is it enough to feed the the appetites of those seemingly oblivious to the impact of their consumption? Could this be due to an ever growing population that is more concerned with their own lifestyle needs rather then those of the Earth and our fellow man? I believe so.

As far as progression is concerned, technology may offer a fast, and fashionable way to communicate, but it does little to help with conservation, until it is unplugged.


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## flowjo (Apr 25, 2009)

as a person its important to have a belief and a responsibility to it 

ignorance can be your guiding light but its no belief system


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## Wallpaper Gypsy (Feb 22, 2010)

dustyrose said:


> How do you go green with painting equipment? Buy quality tools that you can use over and over again. That is all you can do. The "green" is in the paint product itself.



I disagree. Although by LEED standards that may be the case, however, application has more to do with it.


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

DarthPainter said:


> The Younger kids are only truly proactive because they are made more aware, not because it's fashionable. It's a consequence of our progression in technology and communications.


Have you heard this track the kids are listening to?






Don't forget to read the lyrics:

"her booty so big, I cud hang ma' chain from it... "

Also experience one of the many artistic dances inspired by this viral hit!

Just youtube "booty got swagg" the lols are "*endless*" :w00t: 

Or click here:







Here's to the consequence of our progression in technology and communications!

:drink::hang:


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## jeanlee411 (May 4, 2010)

flowjo said:


> i want to use that natura paint but the opportunity hasnt come up yet im tempted to just go buy a quart and use some on my trim at home or whatever lol... but i can honestly say the direction these companies are taking especially with the low to zero VOC count is something i very much respect we as painters have to work with some very unhealthy materials that kill us in the long run and put crap into the ozone. I really hope one day all the latex paint worldwide become as organic as possible i know this sounds chessy but its gonna help everyone in the long run especially us painters.
> 
> as far as the rollers and brushes i mean its a good idea and all but truthfully i keep everything i never throw any of my tools away anyways my brushes turn into dusters which i have a nice collection of or give some away or whatever and my sleeves i take very good care of they last me forever i throw a sleeve out maybe once a year. i barely use oil if i do i generally throw it out no ones perfect lol


How do you go green with painting equipment? Buy quality tools that you can use over and over again. That is all you can do. The "green" is in the paint product itself.


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## blackstone (Nov 30, 2008)

*Painting practices*

Good methods like shielding while spraying can eliminate massive amounts of masking material. Developing good brush and roller cleaning techniques can further eliminate waste. There are many ways to be a 'green' painter, that transcend the VOC content, and LEED discussion.


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## leadfree (Aug 7, 2010)

The latest and best new thing in my bag of tricks is a Speedheater Paint Remover and Classic Arm. It has completely (read dramatically increased) the quality and speed of paint stripping. It not only does a great job, but keeps the toxins contained within the paint. The cheapest place to have it was speedheaterstore.com “the official site”. Unlike a lot of other options it meets the EPA requirements under RRP rule. It is environmentally friendly as no additional chemicals are used to remove the paint and all of the original toxins are easily captured and can be disposed of responsibly.


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## leadfree (Aug 7, 2010)

***X


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

leadfree said:


> The latest and best new thing in my bag of tricks is a Speedheater Paint Remover and Classic Arm.


You mean latest and best new thing in your bag of tricks isn't spamming internet forums with a product you are selling?


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## 88dblifestyle (Dec 4, 2009)

dustyrose said:


> How do you go green with painting equipment? Buy quality tools that you can use over and over again. That is all you can do. The "green" is in the paint product itself.


Im just wodering, please correct bme if im wrong but i think painting materials such as paint is consider a chemical elements? I mean, they are not safe, in air specially in environment in general?


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## Michigan11 (Dec 16, 2008)

dustyrose said:


> How do you go green with painting equipment? Buy quality tools that you can use over and over again. That is all you can do. The "green" is in the paint product itself.


 
No way man.. They sell bamboo ladders that are 100% renewable


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