# Need a sander for paint removal.



## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

I have a myriad of sanders, but I need something meaty that will go through some paint layers, but not cost $500 or too ridiculously heavy and bulky. (ladder use) 

Suggestions?


I like the Velcro replacement pads or clip ons, not the adhesive type as I burn through paper on a siding.


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

What are you needing it for?


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Peel Away 7. Sanding to bare wood sounds horrible.  Sorry I'm not more help.


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## mpminter (Mar 21, 2011)

Check out the Festool RAS 115. I think its less than $500 and it's their most aggressive sander. Plus, it's shrouded and can be hooked up to a HEPA vac so you could use it on RRP jobs:thumbup:


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

I'm not needing to go to bare wood, but the customer wants it to be "smooth". (yes we're clear on expectations)

100 year old house with about 3 layers on it. (pics are on my phone) 2.5 story, 3000sqft house. 

I'm currently using my P.C. 4" belt sander with 60 grit and a Bosche 5" with 40 grid, but I still feel too slow. Feeling weather pressure to get this done. 

For the record, the paint will be two coats of Aura for build. (after oil primer)


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

http://www.finepaintsofeurope.com/paint_removal_system.aspx Use this if you don't care about the dust


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

But you don't have to go to Europe to buy it!


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## mpminter (Mar 21, 2011)

Seriously, check out the Festool I mentioned. It's small, light, and powerful and it sounds like it would be perfect for what you're doing. Heck, one of their rotex machines would probably do it.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

mpminter said:


> Seriously, check out the Festool I mentioned. It's small, light, and powerful and it sounds like it would be perfect for what you're doing. Heck, one of their rotex machines would probably do it.


I saw those in a previous PT post. Looks promising.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Paint and Hammer said:


> I'm not needing to go to bare wood, but the customer wants it to be "smooth". (yes we're clear on expectations)
> 
> 100 year old house with about 3 layers on it. (pics are on my phone) 2.5 story, 3000sqft house.
> 
> ...


The Mirka CEROS really excels at what you are trying to do. It is so light (2 lbs) and easy to hold and maneuver against the house. The CEROS with Abranet is one truly amazing sanding experience tied to a vac for stripping so for what you are trying to do its effortless. Its on the site under Equipment. I'll shoot a video and get it up as soon as the rain stops. Been raining all week and says rain thru the weekend.


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

mpminter said:


> Seriously, check out the Festool I mentioned. It's small, light, and powerful and it sounds like it would be perfect for what you're doing. Heck, one of their rotex machines would probably do it.


Reading about it now. Weight to power ratio is always something I look for. 

I've got a few belt sanders, but good luck holding those with one hand which is what makes that 4" PC nice.


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


> The Mirka CEROS really excels at what you are trying to do. It is so light (2 lbs) and easy to hold and maneuver against the house. The CEROS with Abranet is one truly amazing sanding experience tied to a vac for stripping so for what you are trying to do its effortless. Its on the site under Equipment. I'll shoot a video and get it up as soon as the rain stops. Been raining all week and says rain thru the weekend.


Is this in the Festool family also?


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

mpminter said:


> Seriously, check out the Festool I mentioned. It's small, light, and powerful and it sounds like it would be perfect for what you're doing. Heck, one of their rotex machines would probably do it.



For $300 this looks like a good suggestion.....will check one out tomorrow....thanks.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Paint and Hammer said:


> Is this in the Festool family also?


No this is MIRKA. Known for abrasives and automotive refinishing but the company is aggressively merging the automotive refinishing technology specific to paint contractors. The CEROS is dream sanding but the Abranet abrasives are very effective even on a hand held sander. Pole sanding walls, a breeze. Where other sandpapers clog up and create those round strands when u try to sand eggshell, Abranet makes sandpaper look like kids play. That stuff is amazing in itself so when attached to the CEROS, its incredibly effective.

I'll post the solution for ladder work too because it has a transformer that goes with it. Not a big deal at all and the solution is actually perfect for so many other things. You'll feel comfortable on a ladder.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Not trying to be a suck up jack, but thanks for the info. If anything, it provides a benchmark where one doesn't exist.


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


> No this is MIRKA. Known for abrasives and automotive refinishing but the company is aggressively merging the automotive refinishing technology specific to paint contractors. The CEROS is dream sanding but the Abranet abrasives are very effective even on a hand held sander. Pole sanding walls, a breeze. Where other sandpapers clog up and create those round strands when u try to sand eggshell, Abranet makes sandpaper look like kids play. That stuff is amazing in itself so when attached to the CEROS, its incredibly effective.
> 
> I'll post the solution for ladder work too because it has a transformer that goes with it. Not a big deal at all and the solution is actually perfect for so many other things. You'll feel comfortable on a ladder.


Haven't heard of it and Festool came up along with it in my search.

It looks like a pneumatic tool. (I know it isn't) Frankly the $625 price tag is more than I want to spend on a sander. 2 LBS is very interesting though.

Interesting comments on Abranet abrasives. Like drill bits I accept that most things are crap nowadays and buy in bulk and mow through them....will check them out.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Paint and Hammer said:


> Haven't heard of it and Festool came up along with it in my search.
> 
> It looks like a pneumatic tool. (I know it isn't) Frankly the $625 price tag is more than I want to spend on a sander. 2 LBS is very interesting though.
> 
> Interesting comments on Abranet abrasives. Like drill bits I accept that most things are crap nowadays and buy in bulk and mow through them....will check them out.


Looks like you're back to the Makita PH. $ 180.00 Chaching!


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

CApainter said:


> Looks like you're back to the Makita PH. $ 180.00 Chaching!



I'm going to check out the Festool if they have it in stock. A while back I was debating the Festool or Fein vacuum and bought the Fein mostly because the Festool outlet here didn't seem to be great on customer service.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Paint and Hammer said:


> Haven't heard of it and Festool came up along with it in my search.
> 
> It looks like a pneumatic tool. (I know it isn't) Frankly the $625 price tag is more than I want to spend on a sander. 2 LBS is very interesting though.
> 
> Interesting comments on Abranet abrasives. Like drill bits I accept that most things are crap nowadays and buy in bulk and mow through them....will check them out.


I know u don't want to be in the $500 range but its $495 transformer included. You need to buy Abranet or Abranet HD depending on what kind of removal you want to do. 

The CEROS is designed after their pneumatic auto refinishing sanders. It feels just like one but quiet.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Paint and Hammer said:


> I'm going to check out the Festool if they have it in stock. A while back I was debating the Festool or Fein vacuum and bought the Fein mostly because the Festool outlet here didn't seem to be great on customer service.


I will also be looking into an alternative to my current sanding device. Good luck to you!


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

CApainter said:


> Not trying to be a suck up jack, but thanks for the info. If anything, it provides a benchmark where one doesn't exist.


Thanks. I had the option to pick anything I wanted in a 5". The Festool RO 125 was one of the options but I opted for the 3.5" RO 90 DX and the 5" CEROS. Glad I did too. Put quite a bit of research into the selection, it came recommended from others in the trade and very happy with both as they each service different areas respectfully by size.


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


> I know u don't want to be in the $500 range but its $495 transformer included. You need to buy Abranet or Abranet HD depending on what kind of removal you want to do.
> 
> The CEROS is designed after their pneumatic auto refinishing sanders. It feels just like one but quiet.



I also want that thing on the wall and dirty by noon tomorrow. :yes:

Thanks for the abrasive tip!


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

wall.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Are you sanding that with a belt sander without a vacuum? Not judging, just determining sanding application.


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

CApainter said:


> Are you sanding that with a belt sander without a vacuum? Not judging, just determining sanding application.


Oh Jeez man..... : )

Yes, without a vacuum hooked up. There is a deck below with drops. I shop vac before I leave.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Paint and Hammer said:


> I have a myriad of sanders, but *I need something meaty that will go through some paint layers,* but not cost $500 or too ridiculously heavy and bulky. (ladder use)
> 
> Suggestions?
> 
> ...


The Makita GV5000 has 4,500 RPM. Can the Festool beat that JP?


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

CApainter said:


> The Makita GV5000 has 4,500 RPM. Can the Festool beat that JP?


The RO 90 DX is 3,500 7,000 opm and 260 - 520 rpm in rotary mode. 

The RO 125 is 3,000 - 6,000 opm and 300 - 600 rpm in rotary mode.

Ive never used the Makita but it's not a good comparison. Neither would the RO 90 or RO 125 be with a CEROS. Abrasives play a huge role in effectiveness with the Festool and CEROS sanders. 

The CEROS is 4,000 - 10,000 rpm


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

I've seen nothing like the Festool Rotex sanders for material removal. The Ro90 (3.5"), Ro125 (5") and Ro150 (6") are remarkable, especially with the wax free stearated Granat abrasives. The above link I believe has a video clip of the 150.

I also have the Ras115 which is a beastly material removal machine. If you would like to see that, let me know. Its a trip. But probably not something you are going to take to the top of a ladder and use for very long. My guys are just wrapping up a lengthy wood resto project. The Ro90 was a big hit for them. 

The dust collection on these is remarkable. And they come with a 3 year warranty from Festool, which I believe the Mirka Ceros does as well.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

CApainter said:


> The Makita GV5000 has 4,500 RPM. Can the Festool beat that JP?


Rpm isn't a great measure for effectiveness. The size of the stroke is. You would be surprised at the difference in performance between a 3mm stroke and a 5mm stroke in the Festool. That was shown to me recently in a way I hadnt seen before, and it was very interesting to noodle around with. 

The speed at which sanders spin can actually be counterproductive in terms of just heating up the disc and pad, killing abrasives. 

The Rotex sanders are not spinners. They are eccentric sanders. Love that term.

Here is a video that shows a couple of them. The little Ro90 shown can be a ballsy material removal. I think it was set for finish sanding in the vid. 

http://www.youtube.com/user/topcoatreview?feature=mhee#p/a/f/2/d4bHOcBuAf0


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

Morning....and thanks VP. 

Store opens in an hour and 15 and I'll see if they have in the city.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

On the Festool sanders the stroke width doesn't mean much by itself either. Take two identical sanders same stroke/opm/rpm different abrasives = different results. Much different.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> On the Festool sanders the stroke width doesn't mean much by itself either. Take two identical sanders same stroke/opm/rpm different abrasives = different results. Much different.


Because Festool sanders only take Festool abrasives, it kind of removes bad abrasives from the equation. Mirka is probably the same that way.


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## JoseyWales (Jan 8, 2011)

vermontpainter said:


> Because Festool sanders only take Festool abrasives, it kind of removes bad abrasives from the equation. Mirka is probably the same that way.


Incorrect..I've been using yellow 5" hook & Loop pads for a few years now with my 125 sander...The yellow pads have a million holes in them and work fantastic with my midi vac...I have three boxes of festool sanding pads and rarely use them...I prefer the yellow ones.[can't remember the manufacturer off hand}


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Perhaps it would be safe to say that the hole patterns on the majority of non Festool discs will not match up with Festool for dust collection


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## JoseyWales (Jan 8, 2011)

vermontpainter said:


> Perhaps it would be safe to say that the hole patterns on the majority of non Festool discs will not match up with Festool for dust collection


I use my 125 for sanding mudded drywall repairs most of the time....The yellow pads have thousands of tiny holes in them and it doesn't clog up..The pads last a long time too.

That said, I'm sure the Festool pads are great for sanding wood.


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## StevenH (Sep 7, 2009)

Scott


On your RO 125 have you noticed some melted Velcro on the pad from use?


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

Buying RO 125. 

No the Abranet doesn't march but their intent with more holes is it would march more sanders.


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## JoseyWales (Jan 8, 2011)

Paint and Hammer said:


> Buying RO 125.
> 
> No the Abranet doesn't march but their intent with more holes is it would march more sanders.
> 
> ...


They look like a screen type...Are those tiny holes to go along with the bigger holes?


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

Meant to say "match" not "march"

I chose the smaller one due to weight.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Ro90?


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

Pics


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

StevenH said:


> Scott
> 
> 
> On your RO 125 have you noticed some melted Velcro on the pad from use?


No. We actually have more miles on the ro90 so far, and I have not seen it there. We have worn the dx93 attachments down to that point, but on that one, I will replace attachments monthly if I have to for the labor savings that thing brings on detail sanding.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

P&H

Show us your sander!


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

I hate typing on my phone.

The RO90 seemed too small.

Mirka was cool, definitely light, but was 'only' a random orbital and and you are attached to that converter. (definite downside to outdoor work, up a ladder where its hanging from a hook most part of a day) 

115 was cheapest, but no vac adaptor

Debate was between the RO150 or RO125.....bottom line I tend to use these one handed most of the time RO150 was difficult to hold onto when 'grabbed' the surface. 

So much for spending $500.....


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Paint and Hammer said:


> I hate typing on my phone.
> 
> The RO90 seemed too small.
> 
> ...


So...RO125 and an extractor?


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## mpminter (Mar 21, 2011)

All festool sanders have a vac attachment. Here's a 



 to a youtube video of a guy using one. I'm not trying to push this thing on you, I just wanted to point that out in case that was the only deal killer. I plan on adding one of these and a rotex or two when I can spare the shekels!


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)




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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

mpminter said:


> All festool sanders have a vac attachment. Here's a link to a youtube video of a guy using one. I'm not trying to push this thing on you, I just wanted to point that out in case that was the only deal killer. I plan on adding one of these and a rotex or two when I can spare the shekels!


Sorry, yes you are correct it has the shroud attachment. I also the fine/course adjustment.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

MP you are right, the ras does have a dust exhaust port. The dust shroud mounted on it is handy to, for directing the material based on the direction it is favoring during removal. This thing removes serious material. It is a definite two hander.


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> So...RO125 and an extractor?


I have the Fein Vac, but after seeing how slick these work together I asked the guy if he would take mine in trade. :whistling2:


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

P&H

If you can get the Festool Granat abrasives, it is great in paint removal. My guys just finished a large wood resto and it was amazing the mileage we got out of Granat. (its the light blue stuff)


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> P&H
> 
> If you can get the Festool Granat abrasives, it is great in paint removal. My guys just finished a large wood resto and it was amazing the mileage we got out of Granat. (its the light blue stuff)


Thanks...I'll enquire, the sales guy was on holidays and the stock was low. 

I bought a pack of Festool 'Cristal' P40 to compare to the Mirka.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Paint and Hammer said:


> Thanks...I'll enquire, the sales guy was on holidays and the stock was low.
> 
> I bought a pack of Festool 'Cristal' P40 to compare to the Mirka.


When you get Granat and an extractor, your RO will be performing optimally. Meanwhile, it should be light years beyond your belt sander!

Congratulations. Now get to work! It just got a little more fun.


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)




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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

It looks like you have one of the Fein with variable speed. Turn it down to about half way and the RO will be pretty happy.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

How you gonna get up high on the wall with that hose?

Looks like a nice sander.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

TJ Paint said:


> How you gonna get up high on the wall with that hose?
> 
> Looks like a nice sander.


Hose modification for length does become necessary.


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

TJ Paint said:


> How you gonna get up high on the wall with that hose?
> 
> Looks like a nice sander.


The deal with the HO is the first floor will be sanded realistically smooth and second level is scrapped and feathered sanded. (unhook from vac)

No RRP here so no worries. 

I wear a mask whether or not hooked up to a sander anyway. 

Diggin' the sander. Although JP might be disappointed to hear that I'm less thrilled with the Abernet paper over the Festool. (at the moment)


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Abrasive mileage is huge in removal tasks


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

TJ Paint said:


> How you gonna get up high on the wall with that hose?
> 
> Looks like a nice sander.


Juss hang the vacuum from a sky hook. 

 :jester:


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## Andyman (Feb 21, 2009)

What kind of sander would you all recommend for sanding metal door jambs in prep for repaint? 

I'm looking to buy a set up, I've been looking at Festools.


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

Andyman said:


> What kind of sander would you all recommend for sanding metal door jambs in prep for repaint?
> 
> I'm looking to buy a set up, I've been looking at Festools.


I'm not an expert by any stretch, but since this is fresh.....

If you are looking at Festools and they are in your budget, I think its simply said that you wouldn't be disappointed buying one. 

I ran my sander for almost 6 hours straight today. My hands and arms are not dead! I'm trying not to be melodramatic about a sander, but "I've seen the light". I have probably 5 sanders that just got replaced by one today. 

If there is a store near by...go check them out and report back. 

Damn I feel stupid being so excited about a sander.....

Sorry for all the first person "I" words VP.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Paint and Hammer said:


> I'm not an expert by any stretch, but since this is fresh.....
> 
> If you are looking at Festools and they are in your budget, I think its simply said that you wouldn't be disappointed buying one.
> 
> ...


Good to hear you bought one! So I take it you made some progress on that house? Isn't personal experience first person?


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


> Good to hear you bought one! So I take it you made some progress on that house? Isn't personal experience first person?


Yes it is...that jab at VP stems from a 'zone' comment.

I was amazed....I think I moved about 3 times faster this afternoon then yesterday.

I'll grab my phone I took a pic of the abrasives I used.


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)




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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

In this situation, both of these 40 grit, I found the Mirka's didn't hold up as well as the Festool abrasive. It frayed on the edges faster. 

Don't know which Festool as it came with the sander and it hard to tell. They have a whole line of various pads. 

One thing I noticed about this set up was the abrasive pad never really got hot. I was wondering if that was because of the vac attachment? Minimal build on the pad. I'd run it pretty aggressively for 20-30 at a time and it still wasn't hot.


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## Rob (Aug 9, 2009)

So what is the deal with the different hole patterns? Any pros/cons?


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I have melted that Velcro on the Rotex 90 with the delta head on since I was sanding down some window trim off the tip only and at higher speed settings. The delta does not like sanding off the tip, especially on higher settings. But, the surface was far too small to fully seat a sander. 

I forget what kind the really thick sandpaper is that comes with the ro125, but like you said that is some tough, long lasting stuff.


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

Rob said:


> So what is the deal with the different hole patterns? Any pros/cons?


Sales guy said it was because Mirka was trying to make the pads accommodate various sanders. You get about 50% match up. 

Performance?....I was doing gross removal on an exterior....hard to say if there was a notable loss. Although the Mirka's are more of a mess then a solid pad so that would make somewhat up for the mis-match. 

I'm more of a "this freakin ROCKS" guy...I hope VP and JP fill in all the other data. :whistling2:


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

DeanV said:


> I have melted that Velcro on the Rotex 90 with the delta head on since I was sanding down some window trim off the tip only and at higher speed settings. The delta does not like sanding off the tip, especially on higher settings. But, the surface was far too small to fully seat a sander.
> 
> I forget what kind the really thick sandpaper is that comes with the ro125, but like you said that is some tough, long lasting stuff.



I wonder how long till that will have to be replaced?

What vacuums do you have?


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## StevenH (Sep 7, 2009)

You are not the only person with the pad problem.

Woodworkers who been using sanders 40 or more hours a week tend to worn the pads down quick, This go with other brands of sanders too, bosch, porter cable, etc.

It seems the hooks are getting worn down more so on the edges.

Too much pressure can melt it down


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Can you say "bandwagon"? Just jumped in full force!


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Right on, Paul! Whatcha got there?


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Can you say "bandwagon"? Just jumped in full force!


So addicting. Sander/Extractor, next thing you know you have the truck fitted with Systainers.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

This is all your fault Scott!


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## JoseyWales (Jan 8, 2011)

jack pauhl said:


> So addicting. Sander/Extractor, next thing you know you have the truck fitted with Systainers.


For the last two years I've been using the Festool Midi Vac + 125 5" sander and I can't stress how "enjoyable" it has made my working life...


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## TERRY365PAINTER (Jul 26, 2009)

What Festool are you using the 125 ro ? 
I bought 90 ro I was thinking ras 115 would be better for exterior . I just bought the whole setup . Its great to see yours at work . I have yet to run mine ,more than a hour or so . I seen the mirka sander yesterday it's really light maybe like 2 lbs or less. The pads you are using are they the brilliant and the rubin ? For exterior .


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## TERRY365PAINTER (Jul 26, 2009)

Yeah look what you have started .


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## JoseyWales (Jan 8, 2011)

TERRY365PAINTER said:


> Yeah look what you have started .


Did you get the cleaning tool systainer?...It's very handy to have as well.

I have The 125 ETS...The RO would be a nice addition for tougher sanding like decks.


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## JoseyWales (Jan 8, 2011)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> This is all your fault Scott!


That vac is a beauty..It puts my little Midi to shame...I'm jealous.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

JoseyWales said:


> Did you get the cleaning tool systainer?...It's very handy to have as well.


My next purchase. :yes:

Need the cleaning set, more hose and a systainer for sanding disks just off the top of my head. But I know the more I read here and start to figure out this system, the more I will be getting.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> My next purchase. :yes:
> 
> Need the cleaning set, more hose and a systainer for sanding disks just off the top of my head. But I know the more I read here and start to figure out this system, the more I will be getting.


Even the beater bar is nice.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> Even the beater bar is nice.


One of the guys in my PDCA chapter brought his vac to "show and tell" at a chapter meeting. I loved the way it helped you move it around, even makes stairs a breeze! This was over a year ago, and I knew when I jumped in to the Festool addiction I'd be needing one.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> One of the guys in my PDCA chapter brought his vac to "show and tell" at a chapter meeting. I loved the way it helped you move it around, even makes stairs a breeze! This was over a year ago, and I knew when I jumped in to the Festool addiction I'd be needing one.


The extractor is very stable and the brake system is a such a good idea. You only have to roll a vac down one set of stairs to know just how much that sucks.


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## TERRY365PAINTER (Jul 26, 2009)

I have to stop! I getting married in 3 months . Maybe I can have my wedding presents go through Festool or amazon .
Lol
Yeah I was going to get the bar thing . More hose . 125 ro 115 ras looking at the mirka sander also I think it fits the onto the 
Vac as well. I have a very addictive personality ""so one day at a time"" or tool at a time . Crap I need a meeting .


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

JoseyWales said:


> For the last two years I've been using the Festool Midi Vac + 125 5" sander and I can't stress how "enjoyable" it has made my working life...


No question it's a different experience. Is that the Midi in your photo? 

We always used various Craftsman vacs (6-7+ year older models/4 castors) then RIDGID and always liked the maneuverability of them because we are 99.9% in the field with a vac that runs throughout the day all over the house, several times over. The maneuverability of 4 castor on our previous vacs were extremely easy to move with little guidance. 

The maneuverability of the CT 26 is constraining in comparison to our old 4 castor vacs but I'll live with it, although that is high on my list because all powerful vacs suck. There are a few other things the CT 26 lacks that the RIDGID model has going for it, all of which are convenience features. I have a whole list of them actually. Convenience = Efficiency so its somewhat of a few steps back for me in a system when every little thing counts. 

It would be great if they made a single bar handle for in front of the CT 26 that mounted low on the tank and curved up to the height of the hose garage. Maybe thats just me, but I tend to always be sweeping/standing ahead of the vac and the only thing to grab onto is the underside lip of the hose garage to bring the vac forward or pull into rooms. 

Another big thing with me is that we are heading into winter and the CT 26 is not exactly a vac, with systainers, that you want to carry through the snow especially on job sites that have no driveways and never plowed. The clearance on the chassis of the CT 26 is only 2 to 2 1/4" and those stock wheels will do nothing for me through the snow.

Anyway, the CT 26 is nice and works great with the RO 90, just miss the convenience of my $59 RIDGID because the CT 26 will get far more use as a vac than a dust extractor for the sander. It's without a doubt an investment, my setup is $599 plus cleaning kit and I am over $800, add half dozen systainers and you're at $1500 bucks. Then pick your sander.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

There is a motor reversal modification on the 26 that in the low setting allows you to use it as an hvlp turbine (gun not included), and in high gear it becomes a snowblower!

:jester:

It is nice to wheel them across the driveway this time of year. But in winter, pulling the systainers off and carrying them, and carry the vac through snow by the handle shouldnt be too much of an inconvenience. If they come out with an air suspension we can pump up and snow tires, that will be cool though.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> There is a motor reversal modification on the 26 that in the low setting allows you to use it as an hvlp turbine (gun not included), and in high gear it becomes a snowblower!
> 
> :jester:
> 
> It is nice to wheel them across the driveway this time of year. But in winter, pulling the systainers off and carrying them, and carry the vac through snow by the handle shouldnt be too much of an inconvenience. If they come out with an air suspension we can pump up and snow tires, that will be cool though.


No kidding.. the CT 26 should have a snowblower attachment. One of these days I'll get a pic of all the crap we haul into a job, much of which does not stay overnight. More often haul all your stuff in, then go to the next 2 houses and repeat the process. It's a rather big inconvenience to me plus its no fun hauling it up 3 and 4 floors in these monster houses.


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## StevenH (Sep 7, 2009)

Rob said:


> So what is the deal with the different hole patterns? Any pros/cons?


How the tool dust collection is engineered is more important than the pad holes itself.


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## JoseyWales (Jan 8, 2011)

jack pauhl said:


> No question it's a different experience. Is that the Midi in your photo?
> 
> We always used various Craftsman vacs (6-7+ year older models/4 castors) then RIDGID and always liked the maneuverability of them because we are 99.9% in the field with a vac that runs throughout the day all over the house, several times over. The maneuverability of 4 castor on our previous vacs were extremely easy to move with little guidance.
> 
> ...



That's not my picture...I own the midi


http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81+BlQUqLBL._AA1500_.jpg

I bought the little guy because I use it mainly for sanding drywall repairs and trim inside...I live in Canada where it is cold and snowy and I haven't had a problem because I do residential repaints where the landscape is normally cleared..[if not I carry a snow shovel}...I usually carry two sustainers,one for the sander and one for the cleaning tools...The midi is fairly lightweight even with the sustainers.

If I did NC like you do,I might consider bringing another vac just for cleaning the floors..I agree the Festool Midi is not very maneuverable and you don't want to damage the hose by pulling on it.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

StevenH said:


> The sandpaper always clog up more in the middle of the disc.
> So What festool did is that they added a hole in middle
> 
> I think Klingspor sandpaper and Abranet are the only companies that their disc match festool holes.
> ...


My final purchasing decision on the Festool RO 125 or the Mirka CEROS came down to abrasives. We've been using Abranet on everything lately with great results and wanted that flexibility in a 5" sander. The decision came down to the Festool 3.5" RO 90 DX for specific tasks and then I went with the CEROS for larger tasks. The CEROS accepts Festool but Festool does not take Abranet unless someone has an aftermarket interface pad that I'm not aware of.

Abranet comes full mesh too.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

JoseyWales said:


> That's not my picture...I own the midi
> 
> 
> http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81+BlQUqLBL._AA1500_.jpg
> ...


I wanted the MINI and the MIDI vs the CT 26 but I was talked out of it and glad they did. Basically made the buying decision for the CT 26 on trust. For what we do, we need the CT 26 because apparently we are a cleaning company too who cleans up after drywallers and every other trade and constantly do full floor sweeps. The MINI is in my near future for service work.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

I'm going to use my extractors as extractors only. We do that much sanding. 

We have a pre-existing fleet of Feins which will become cleanup machines. No longer required for attachment to sanders. It was either that or ebay.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> I'm going to use my extractors as extractors only. We do that much sanding.
> 
> We have a pre-existing fleet of Feins which will become cleanup machines. No longer required for attachment to sanders. It was either that or ebay.


Yeah I can see where you are with that decision. Being mobile producers, we have slightly different requirements vs in-house finishing but the differences are certainly understandable. Had a nice talk with a local woodworker and how he manages both ends of the spectrum as being in-house and the different tools he uses to be mobile doing similar tasks. Was very interesting and anyone can relate. Some of those guys need their whole shop in their truck so it is always cool to see how they convert it to a mobile solution. Wish I had a pic of this guys truck, it was laid out! Obviously there was no getting into the truck haha.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

We are looking at how to deal with the 90% of work we do that is onsite nc. Definitely not leaving tools like this sitting around!


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Wow I hate you guys. Talk about creating tool envy.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> We are looking at how to deal with the 90% of work we do that is onsite nc. Definitely not leaving tools like this sitting around!


Ya know, around here it's not really safe to leave paint. I've seen entire framing packages stolen. Saw a city inspector walk off our job with two 5's! We were eating lunch in the truck.


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## JoseyWales (Jan 8, 2011)

vermontpainter said:


> We are looking at how to deal with the 90% of work we do that is onsite nc. Definitely not leaving tools like this sitting around!


Yeah I definitely don't like to keep my Festools + sprayers in an empty reno house that has a ton of trades coming + going...Last job like that someone swiped my 3M hand masker and a ball peen hammer...If I was doing NC I'd grab an empty bedroom and replace the door handle with a lockable handset....That way you can keep your things somewhat out of site and reach.


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## JoseyWales (Jan 8, 2011)

jack pauhl said:


> Ya know, around here it's not really safe to leave paint. I've seen entire framing packages stolen. Saw a city inspector walk off our job with two 5's! We were eating lunch in the truck.


Well don't keep us hanging in suspense..How did you deal with the inspector?..I hope you reported him after you confronted him......Nothing worse than a dirty government worker who yields power.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

JoseyWales said:


> Yeah I definitely don't like to keep my Festools + sprayers in an empty reno house that has a ton of trades coming + going...Last job like that someone swiped my 3M hand masker and a ball peen hammer...If I was doing NC I'd grab an empty bedroom and replace the door handle with a lockable handset....That way you can keep your things somewhat out of site and reach.


Thats one reason why the systainers and modular nature of the Festool system is appealing. Keeps things organized and easy to transport daily if necessary.

We had jobs in the past where people were grabbing our Fein vacs and using them for major debris vac-ing. Got to the point where we started removing the hoses from them anytime we werent using them. Sucks having those bags get filled up with drywall debris and electrician cutoffs. Sucking that much drywall dust and sawdust is just not a good thing.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

JoseyWales said:


> Yeah I definitely don't like to keep my Festools + sprayers in an empty reno house that has a ton of trades coming + going...Last job like that someone swiped my 3M hand masker and a ball peen hammer...If I was doing NC I'd grab an empty bedroom and replace the door handle with a lockable handset....That way you can keep your things somewhat out of site and reach.


We've seen a few trim carpenters put their own lock on a walk-in closet but you and I know how easy it is to break a MDF door off the casing. It was disappointing to see a 3 week old 695 be cut from the gas lines sitting in the basement behind the furnace with a simple bolt cutter. That chain was very thick too! I pulled the tip and guard off it after I locked it thinking someone could easily steal the tip assembly. Next morning, cut chain and link sitting on the basement floor.

But you're right, people will walk off with an extension pole, just anything and I prefer not to go through that so we load/unload each job leaving paint and misc sundries behind.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

JoseyWales said:


> Well don't keep us hanging in suspense..How did you deal with the inspector?..I hope you reported him after you confronted him......Nothing worse than a dirty government worker who yields power.


Nothing, the PC approached him and grabbed the 5's. Nothing else said.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> Thats one reason why the systainers and modular nature of the Festool system is appealing. Keeps things organized and easy to transport daily if necessary.
> 
> We had jobs in the past where people were grabbing our Fein vacs and using them for major debris vac-ing. Got to the point where we started removing the hoses from them anytime we werent using them. Sucks having those bags get filled up with drywall debris and electrician cutoffs. Sucking that much drywall dust and sawdust is just not a good thing.


No kidding. Sucks it comes down to that. People too lazy to grab their own stuff out of the truck. For as much drywall cleanup and sanding we do, technically we should have the Festool extractor designed for it. We have 1,100 sq ft of knockdown we need to make smooth flat ceiling coming up in an occupied home. So we're doing stuff like that with it too. Thankfully it cleans itself, saves some time there.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

JoseyWales said:


> Well don't keep us hanging in suspense..How did you deal with the inspector?..I hope you reported him after you confronted him......Nothing worse than a dirty government worker who yields power.


He said something along the lines of... oh I must be at the wrong house.


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## JoseyWales (Jan 8, 2011)

jack pauhl said:


> We've seen a few trim carpenters put their own lock on a walk-in closet but you and I know how easy it is to break a MDF door off the casing. It was disappointing to see a 3 week old 695 be cut from the gas lines sitting in the basement behind the furnace with a simple bolt cutter. That chain was very thick too! I pulled the tip and guard off it after I locked it thinking someone could easily steal the tip assembly. Next morning, cut chain and link sitting on the basement floor.
> 
> But you're right, people will walk off with an extension pole, just anything and I prefer not to go through that so we load/unload each job leaving paint and misc sundries behind.


With the price of surveillance equipment going down every year I could see a day when a builder or even a tradesman will install tiny hidden cameras at various locations throughout the job-site...Sorry to hear about your sprayer..Ouch!..You know damn well that someone you worked with on the job-site saw the new sprayer and either stole it himself or told someone about it.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

JoseyWales said:


> With the price of surveillance equipment going down every year I could see a day when a builder or even a tradesman will install tiny hidden cameras at various locations throughout the job-site...Sorry to hear about your sprayer..Ouch!..You know damn well that someone you worked with on the job-site saw the new sprayer and either stole it himself or told someone about it.


We have 2 builders using cameras. Couple years ago a guy backed his pickup truck into the garage, closed the door, removed the service door to house, loaded up all appliances and left. He did it about 5-6 houses in our development. It always happened the night of delivery of the appliances too. Not sure if they caught that guy or not.


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

Awesome....6 pages on this. 

I put another 5 hours on my 125 today...great. Hose kept popping off the sander though. Need to decide which vac I'm going to buy as I'm going to pick one of this week for sure. 

Nothing wrong with my Fein except my biggest pet peeve is the shape and no storage for the hose. 

I'll have to read your posts again a bit slower JP.


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## JoseyWales (Jan 8, 2011)

Paint and Hammer said:


> Awesome....6 pages on this.
> 
> I put another 5 hours on my 125 today...great. Hose kept popping off the sander though. Need to decide which vac I'm going to buy as I'm going to pick one of this week for sure.
> 
> ...


There is a locking mechanism for the sander....Same thing happened to me at first.


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

JoseyWales said:


> There is a locking mechanism for the sander....Same thing happened to me at first.


I have a Fein vac, hence the mis-match....I'm looking to buy the Festool to replace it.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Paint and Hammer said:


> Awesome....6 pages on this.
> 
> I put another 5 hours on my 125 today...great. Hose kept popping off the sander though. Need to decide which vac I'm going to buy as I'm going to pick one of this week for sure.
> 
> ...


Sounds good. Its always good to learn about the features most important to others in our trade. The RIDGID review on the site is a worthy read. It covers 19 PROS important to me. Many simple features collectively allowing efficient operation, many features easily overlooked. 

My last hardcore research on a vac purchase prior to this recent one was early 90's for an upright commercial vacuum to be used for home and work. Final purchase was a Panasonic JET-FLO MC-6640. Its 18 yrs old and never been in for service and still a great vac. Definitely worth the $600 price tag. 

Was going to review the STIHL SE-122 but when our Mirka Extractor showed up at the door, it looked just like it.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Paint and Hammer said:


> Awesome....6 pages on this.
> 
> I put another 5 hours on my 125 today...great. Hose kept popping off the sander though. Need to decide which vac I'm going to buy as I'm going to pick one of this week for sure.
> 
> ...


Give us your input on how your arms and hands feel... numbness, tingling etc? You holding up good with it? Are you spending that time against the siding?


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


> Sounds good. Its always good to learn about the features most important to others in our trade. The RIDGID review on the site is a worthy read. It covers 19 PROS important to me. Many simple features collectively allowing efficient operation, many features easily overlooked.
> 
> My last hardcore research on a vac purchase prior to this recent one was early 90's for an upright commercial vacuum to be used for home and work. Final purchase was a Panasonic JET-FLO MC-6640. Its 18 yrs old and never been in for service and still a great vac. Definitely worth the $600 price tag.
> 
> Was going to review the STIHL SE-122 but when our Mirka Extractor showed up at the door, it looked just like it.


I'll check out the RIDGID review. 

I own a couple of RIDGID vacs so I'm not sure at the moment if the review is of one that I have. 

What I really like about these extractors is the plug and 'activation on demand' feature. Also the variable speed. 

The Festool 'system' is just so darn sexy. I'm amazed how the box of my truck is stuffed with stuff....I'm diggin' the stack-ability of these.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

For size reference. This is a CT 26. Uploading from phone. Hope this works.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

This goes pretty good in my extra cab. I put the seat belt around the bucket boss, and brake on the extractor. You will find that the mini, midi and 26 occupy very similar footprints.


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## StevenH (Sep 7, 2009)

Scott

If you were going to get only one sander Which one would you get first?

The RO 90 DX or RO 125


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

StevenH said:


> Scott
> 
> If you were going to get only one sander Which one would you get first?
> 
> The RO 90 DX or RO 125


Steven

Having used both alot, if I were to get one first it would be the Ro90dx because it is 3 sanders in one. Then, might get the ets125 next for a larger orbital option.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

specs. 

mini / midi / ct 26
17.5 / 17.5 / 24.8 depth
13.5 / 13.5 / 14.4 width
16.5 / 18.5 / 21.25 height


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Scott, have u converted your ProShot FF to a SYS yet? I ended up going with the SYS 3 TL 8" and use that egg foam. Works great and room for tips. Wont be long an I'll be hauling in a Systainer port on these jobs. :thumbsup:


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> Scott, have u converted your ProShot FF to a SYS yet? I ended up going with the SYS 3 TL 8" and use that egg foam. Works great and room for tips. Wont be long an I'll be hauling in a Systainer port on these jobs. :thumbsup:


If you are using your ProShot on the same day as your Festool much, thats probably a cool idea. 

Wow, you have really bought into Festool since the beginning of this thread when you recommended the Ceros for stripping instead of the Rotex options. 

Thats awesome. Its great stuff. I bet you will find yourself accumulating. The RO90 is the perfect start.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> If you are using your ProShot on the same day as your Festool much, thats probably a cool idea.
> 
> Wow, you have really bought into Festool since the beginning of this thread when you recommended the Ceros for stripping instead of the Rotex options.
> 
> Thats awesome. Its great stuff. I bet you will find yourself accumulating. The RO90 is the perfect start.


You draw conclusions too fast.  The idea is to keep (tools) locked in place rather than a bunch of plastic boxes floating around in the back.

Mirka doesn't sell Systainers other than tool specific. Wait for the review to see if I bought in, the CEROS should be a hint. Even though Festool designs products to work together as a system, doesn't mean it's the best system. We see that proof in paint everyday.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Isn't much that is really "fast" about the way my mind works, Jack.


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## StevenH (Sep 7, 2009)

vermontpainter said:


> Steven
> 
> Having used both alot, if I were to get one first it would be the Ro90dx because it is 3 sanders in one. Then, might get the ets125 next for a larger orbital option.


If you were going to sand cabinets or tables, which would you use?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

StevenH said:


> If you were going to sand cabinets or tables, which would you use?


Are the cabinets and tables new? As in finish sanding for spray prep? 

Table tops are easy, the ets125 would be a nice floater for that. Cabinets are always a variable though, depending on how they come. It is often nice to have a square or rectangular piece to get clean into corners, even a delta shape to really nose into them. I wouldn't hesitate to take a RO90 in orbital mode inside a carcass, and the delta mode and attachment could make a really nice corner cleaner upper. If you have an ets 125 and are doing this type of work, the ro90 is a great supplement. Looking further ahead than that, if you are doing enough of this type of work to need to dedicate a detail sander to corners, the dx93 or dts400 are handy to have. Situations vary so much in cabinet grade that its good to know there are many options.


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## StevenH (Sep 7, 2009)

Right now I am building my own cabinets from scratch.
Same with the table

I need a sander that replaces my porter cable 5" sander.

For the RO90
The only that bothers me is the pad size.

I asked a festool staff will they make a bigger pad size, he doesn't know.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

StevenH said:


> Right now I am building my own cabinets from scratch.
> Same with the table
> 
> I need a sander that replaces my porter cable 5" sander.
> ...


I'd be surprised if we saw a bigger pad size. That would basically be the RO125. 

Didnt you get an ets?


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## StevenH (Sep 7, 2009)

vermontpainter said:


> I'd be surprised if we saw a bigger pad size. That would basically be the RO125.
> 
> Didnt you get an ets?


Yea, but its a finish sander not for coarse sanding.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Ro125 for a coarse counterpart and dx93 for detail work in corners.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

StevenH said:


> If you were going to sand cabinets or tables, which would you use?


What material are the doors? Bulk of the sanding there.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

straight_lines said:


> What material are the doors? Bulk of the sanding there.


Thats a great point, Tommy. If I had a bunch of freshly assembled cabinet doors "in the rough", there is probably nothing I would rather have than a couple of clamps and an RO90. That little rig was made for that size stile and rail.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Unfortunately for raised panel MDF, I found nothing works on the details but elbow grease. We tried for many years to find a solution, the flats we would hit with the da.


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## StevenH (Sep 7, 2009)

straight_lines said:


> What material are the doors? Bulk of the sanding there.


Red Oak, I still haven't fill in the grains yet


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

StevenH said:


> Red Oak, I still haven't fill in the grains yet


Paint grade?


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## StevenH (Sep 7, 2009)

I want one of these.


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## StevenH (Sep 7, 2009)

vermontpainter said:


> Paint grade?


No Its FAS

I will probably dye and glaze it.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

StevenH said:


> I want one of these.


Wonder how close 400 takes it to paint ready. We would go all the way to 600 on the profiles before applying any primer. Anything less and we found it would raise and we would be sanding off too much primer. 

Still looks like a nice tool .


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