# Oil Paint on a Deck



## Wallnut (May 4, 2010)

I can't believe it myself. Someone told my potential client that oil paint would be better than stain on a fresh deck and charged her for it. Now its all peeling. Anybody got a cost efective way to remove all of this even on spindals and tough to reach spots? My idea is just to turn the deck inside out and stain it right on the fresh side, replace the railings. I think just the stripper alone will cost more than that. I thought about prepping and repainting it but I can't do that in good consceince.


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## doctors11 (May 17, 2010)

Was it a porch and floor enamel? Any primer?


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## Wallnut (May 4, 2010)

its a 1200 sq ft back yard deck with different levels and connects to a pool surround... its exterior alkyd and its not primed. I'm suprised no ones slipped and fallen yet comming out of the pool. Peels right of with my fingernail.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

tell them to wait a couple more years and you can give a better discount, as by then most of the paint will be peeled off.:thumbup:


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Leave the rails painted, im sure they're holding up fine. I have seen cases where flipping boards works. Depends on the layout, and the miter cuts. Keep in mind that when you flip boards, all the cuts will be opposite.


Gemini Solid Strip, or any high strength Sodium Hydroxide should soften the coating enough to power wash most of it off. Scrape, sand, or use another stripper on the remaining areas ( Star 10, Peel Away, etc etc ) Or use a good quality Solid Stain after the first strip. I guess it comes down to what the homeowner's expectations are and how much they want to spend.


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## Wallnut (May 4, 2010)

they want something high end... the rails are peeling... i asked if they'd consider leaving them or painting them over... they said no. they want it all done. I didn't do decks till this year and am getting tons of them. I dont like the idea of stripping all the paint on a 1200 sq ft'er... they want it back to new... not a trace of paint as do I. Think ill go with flippin.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

This is a good job for the homeowner I say.you might want to find out if they will be willing to pay for all the labor. I have found that ho's don't like to pay much for deck work to be done right, most of the time they think your going to slap on another coat of stain/ paint.


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## ezpaintks (Mar 8, 2010)

I am basically going through the same thing. The ho's don't want to pay for getting it done right though they want it done right. So far I am going to give them a "full" proposal, but theytold them they may want to wait until they have enough funds avalible. Otherwise I'm sure they will be calling to fix things all the time. Which wouldn't be worth my time, not doing it correctly. 
Doing it the right way is the best for both parties.


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## Charisb (Jun 9, 2009)

You might consider media blasting. Sounds harsh for a deck, but if it's peeling off with your fingernail, crushed glass media (fine grit - 70/100) will probably take it off & do it pretty quickly. You'd have to put out plastic sheets to catch what's blasted off but, in the end, cleaning up plastic sheets might be easier than worrying about chemicals getting into the pool, right? We have log home guys blast decks on log homes all the time - works great. It will probably require some finish sanding, but you'll have to do that w/ power washing, too....


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## bigjeffie61520 (Oct 3, 2009)

why can't you just blow it off w/ a power washer?
seems like if its peeling that severely you might not need a stripper


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## Delta Painting (Apr 27, 2010)

T&M is the way I would bid that job with a set amount by you and the HO. Deck stripping is a good way to lose you shirt. Try to stear them away form a solid color stain nothing but a big mantenince issue in the future.


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## Wallnut (May 4, 2010)

bigjeffie61520 said:


> why can't you just blow it off w/ a power washer?
> seems like if its peeling that severely you might not need a stripper


in the weathered areas it is... in the shaded areas its holding tight. Most customers just want a refresh of decks... when you tell them theres a lot of prep they get worried... just not somthing i want to stick a set price on... not sure how much will pull up and how much ill have to fight with... since its paint it all has to come up.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Wallnut said:


> in the weathered areas it is... in the shaded areas its holding tight. Most customers just want a refresh of decks... when you tell them theres a lot of prep they get worried... just not somthing i want to stick a set price on... not sure how much will pull up and how much ill have to fight with... since its paint it all has to come up.


When I first started out, I would bid on jobs like this and wonder why I didn't get the job. Sometimes it was worse, I would get the job and then get mad that I didn't charge enough. 

Nowadays, I don't even take the time. As soon as I hear a deck has been painted and its peeling, I don't even think about taking a look at it. You'll never get the money you need to make on it. Period. I just tell them that painting a deck is stupid and that it needs to be stripped to fix. I tell them if they paint over it, its going to continue being a huge problem for them.

If they say, well can you just put a solid stain on then? I say no. I'm not going to do a deck halfass and have my name on it. Plus they won't be happy with it, and I still wouldn't get the money I need out of it.

I'm not trying to be rude, just realistic business wise. I think if you're entertaining taking this job on, you just don't understand what it takes or you don't want to make money. Good luck.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

TJ Paint said:


> When I first started out, I would bid on jobs like this and wonder why I didn't get the job. Sometimes it was worse, I would get the job and then get mad that I didn't charge enough.
> 
> Nowadays, I don't even take the time. As soon as I hear a deck has been painted and its peeling, I don't even think about taking a look at it. You'll never get the money you need to make on it. Period. I just tell them that painting a deck is stupid and that it needs to be stripped to fix. I tell them if they paint over it, its going to continue being a huge problem for them.
> 
> ...


I agree and disagree, and im usually agreeing with you most of the time. :thumbsup: If the H.O's understand the situation, and you can work something out, it can be worth doing. You have to explain everything clearly and show them all their options. Let them make the decision to either spend the money fixing or spend it replacing, or anywhere in between. Sometimes people want things fixed properly, other times they want the band-aid fix. Leave the ball in their court, and work together to find a solution.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

NCPaint1 said:


> I agree and disagree, and im usually agreeing with you most of the time. :thumbsup: If the H.O's understand the situation, and you can work something out, it can be worth doing. You have to explain everything clearly and show them all their options. Let them make the decision to either spend the money fixing or spend it replacing, or anywhere in between. Sometimes people want things fixed properly, other times they want the band-aid fix. Leave the ball in their court, and work together to find a solution.


yeah, I agree its up to the HO. But decks in general, are hard to make money on. And, by using logical deduction here on this scenario, I can tell I wouldn't make the money I need. The reason is, if this HO had money and was willing to spend money on this project to where it would be profitable for me to consider, they wouldn't have had somebody finish it with an oil paint. 

Somebody with money would have hired a pro that knew better than to put on an oil paint. So in my opinion, there are only two reasons for this. 1) they don't have money or won't spend money for a professional to do the job 
2) they recently bought a house where the previous HO did a bunch of diy projects before selling and messed this deck up, (which most likely says what type of house and market this is, and it tells me there isn't enough money there).


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## Ranger72 (Jul 3, 2010)

Use a bug spray pump with Benjamin Moore Finish Remover 315, do no dilute it. Let it sit for 10 minutes and pressure wash it off. (cutting with a 40 degree fan tip). You might have to repeat this process to get everything off.


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## doctors11 (May 17, 2010)

Does that work for paint? I thought it was only for stains.


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## Wallnut (May 4, 2010)

TJ Paint said:


> When I first started out, I would bid on jobs like this and wonder why I didn't get the job. Sometimes it was worse, I would get the job and then get mad that I didn't charge enough.
> 
> Nowadays, I don't even take the time. As soon as I hear a deck has been painted and its peeling, I don't even think about taking a look at it. You'll never get the money you need to make on it. Period. I just tell them that painting a deck is stupid and that it needs to be stripped to fix. I tell them if they paint over it, its going to continue being a huge problem for them.
> 
> ...


this is basically what i said and instead of wasting my time on stripping I told them that flipping the boards would be cheaper and less time consuming... then im gonna stain with arborcoat. thanks all


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## Ranger72 (Jul 3, 2010)

doctors11 said:


> Does that work for paint? I thought it was only for stains.


Yes it does. I actually stripped part of a deck on Friday (a large set of steps on cedar) that was painted with a solid color. I used the above mentioned method and it worked like a champ as usual. (only had to spray the stripper on once too).


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Ranger72 said:


> Yes it does. I actually stripped part of a deck on Friday (a large set of steps on cedar) that was painted with a solid color. I used the above mentioned method and it worked like a champ as usual. (only had to spray the stripper on once too).


what did you do with all the paint that came off? Solid stain is alot diff than oil paint too. Not trying to be a dbag.


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## Ranger72 (Jul 3, 2010)

The paint (which was a H.O. attempt to reuse some wood and make look presentable) was indeed paint, not solid stain. After pressure washing I sprayed all the peeling paint into one spot and picked up and disposed of as much as I could. 

For those who have never used this BM stripper it is a great product. I highly recommend it.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

was it oil paint?


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## Ranger72 (Jul 3, 2010)

This particular one was acrylic or latex, but I have done oil in the past.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

TJ Paint said:


> yeah, I agree its up to the HO. But decks in general, are hard to make money on. And, by using logical deduction here on this scenario, I can tell I wouldn't make the money I need. The reason is, if this HO had money and was willing to spend money on this project to where it would be profitable for me to consider, they wouldn't have had somebody finish it with an oil paint.
> 
> Somebody with money would have hired a pro that knew better than to put on an oil paint. So in my opinion, there are only two reasons for this. 1) they don't have money or won't spend money for a professional to do the job
> 2) they recently bought a house where the previous HO did a bunch of diy projects before selling and messed this deck up, (which most likely says what type of house and market this is, and it tells me there isn't enough money there).


How can you say that? Maybe the H.O's didn't know any better. Maybe they got bad info from the previous contractor. Educating the customer is key for us.....with the right information.

I looked at a log home with a contractor earlier this year. The customers went from wanting a band aid to a 40k strip and finish Log & Siding job. Just from giving them all the proper information and letting them decide. It wasn't a sales pitch at all.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

NCPaint1 said:


> How can you say that? Maybe the H.O's didn't know any better. Maybe they got bad info from the previous contractor. Educating the customer is key for us.....with the right information.
> 
> I looked at a log home with a contractor earlier this year. The customers went from wanting a band aid to a 40k strip and finish Log & Siding job. Just from giving them all the proper information and letting them decide. It wasn't a sales pitch at all.


My point is, if they hired somebody that put oil paint on their deck, they didn't hire a professional. They hired somebody that didn't even know the basics. This would mean that they hired somebody that probably was one of the cheaper quotes received. This would mean that they aren't interested in actually spending enough money to have things done right, by a professional.

I agree with you that people can have large swings in their buying tendencies, and especially after some education. My point made is based on this specific scenario and on the information given by the OP. Further, knowing the backdrop, I mentioned that my intuition is that it wouldn't be worth even doing an estimate for them, keeping in mind their most probable buying pattern.

I used to do alot of old residential starting out. I've done properties that were so far gone. As the years have past, its been my personal experience that, the owners of these properties more often than not, don't want to spend the money to where I can make it worth my while. It took a few hard jobs to realize I proposed a price I thought they would bite on, and then was too optimistic about it being a profitable outcome. I'm not saying there aren't exceptions, however.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

I think we are ignoring the 1000 pound gorilla in the room here.

Wallnut, did you get the story as to how and why the deck was painted with an oil? This would be interesting to know.


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## Wallnut (May 4, 2010)

They bought the house and some "handyman" told them the best thing to put on would be oil paint. He told them it would stand up better and after 2 years it peeled... The "handyman" might have meant well and just had no knowledge. His lack of knowledge cost them big though.


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

I won't get too deep into the "how's" and what products to get this job done. I wouldn't touch it for less than $9,000. The strippers listed above will not work. I use products ten times as strong as that commercially available stuff and paint laughs at it. 

Pressure washing will not work and just destroy what is probably already a dried out mess. There is a product that will remove paint and it is not nasty but it is expensive and difficult to use. It will cost you $1,500+ for the stripper alone and it has to be either applied with an industrial airless or painted on (it is as thick as pudding). You then have to let it sit overnight (while covered in plastic this time of year). The wash process will produce a mess that then has to be cleaned up. If you are lucky, after your third full day of stripping and cleaning up, you will have removed 85%. After that factor another 2-3 days of sanding. Spindles have to be done one by one and by hand. If you are really lucky and you have effective crews, you will then be ready for a semi trans oil. 

All wood professionals (not painters.. no disrespect meant) have one of these projects in their history. They are absolutely not worth the time and no matter what you charge, you will feel it is not enough. It may be cheaper and less labor intensive to R&R the handrails.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Wallnut said:


> They bought the house and some "handyman" told them the best thing to put on would be oil paint. He told them it would stand up better and after 2 years it peeled... The "handyman" might have meant well and just had no knowledge. His lack of knowledge cost them big though.


So they did the project themselves? It was a diy project? Thats what I mean. If they did it themselves, they probably wouldn't be the customer that would want to pay an amount I would see as being profitable. 


PressurePros said:


> I won't get too deep into the "how's" and what products to get this job done. I wouldn't touch it for less than $9,000. The strippers listed above will not work. I use products ten times as strong as that commercially available stuff and paint laughs at it.
> 
> Pressure washing will not work and just destroy what is probably already a dried out mess. There is a product that will remove paint and it is not nasty but it is expensive and difficult to use. It will cost you $1,500+ for the stripper alone and it has to be either applied with an industrial airless or painted on (it is as thick as pudding). You then have to let it sit overnight (while covered in plastic this time of year). The wash process will produce a mess that then has to be cleaned up. If you are lucky, after your third full day of stripping and cleaning up, you will have removed 85%. After that factor another 2-3 days of sanding. Spindles have to be done one by one and by hand. If you are really lucky and you have effective crews, you will then be ready for a semi trans oil.
> 
> All wood professionals (not painters.. no disrespect meant) have one of these projects in their history. They are absolutely not worth the time and no matter what you charge, you will feel it is not enough. It may be cheaper and less labor intensive to R&R the handrails.


Yep.


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## bigjeffie61520 (Oct 3, 2009)

PressurePros said:


> I won't get too deep into the "how's" and what products to get this job done. I wouldn't touch it for less than $9,000. The strippers listed above will not work. I use products ten times as strong as that commercially available stuff and paint laughs at it.
> 
> Pressure washing will not work and just destroy what is probably already a dried out mess. There is a product that will remove paint and it is not nasty but it is expensive and difficult to use. It will cost you $1,500+ for the stripper alone and it has to be either applied with an industrial airless or painted on (it is as thick as pudding). You then have to let it sit overnight (while covered in plastic this time of year). The wash process will produce a mess that then has to be cleaned up. If you are lucky, after your third full day of stripping and cleaning up, you will have removed 85%. After that factor another 2-3 days of sanding. Spindles have to be done one by one and by hand. If you are really lucky and you have effective crews, you will then be ready for a semi trans oil.
> 
> all wood professionals (not painters.. no disrespect meant) have one of these projects in their history. They are absolutely not worth the time and no matter what you charge, you will feel it is not enough. It may be cheaper and less labor intensive to R&R the handrails.


that is what i call "wake up and smell the coffee"


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## Ranger72 (Jul 3, 2010)

I have used the BM stripper on oil paint on decks before. And it does work. Especially if the deck is all ready starting to peel up, it will work fine.


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## Wallnut (May 4, 2010)

PressurePros said:


> I won't get too deep into the "how's" and what products to get this job done. I wouldn't touch it for less than $9,000. The strippers listed above will not work. I use products ten times as strong as that commercially available stuff and paint laughs at it.
> 
> Pressure washing will not work and just destroy what is probably already a dried out mess. There is a product that will remove paint and it is not nasty but it is expensive and difficult to use. It will cost you $1,500+ for the stripper alone and it has to be either applied with an industrial airless or painted on (it is as thick as pudding). You then have to let it sit overnight (while covered in plastic this time of year). The wash process will produce a mess that then has to be cleaned up. If you are lucky, after your third full day of stripping and cleaning up, you will have removed 85%. After that factor another 2-3 days of sanding. Spindles have to be done one by one and by hand. If you are really lucky and you have effective crews, you will then be ready for a semi trans oil.
> 
> All wood professionals (not painters.. no disrespect meant) have one of these projects in their history. They are absolutely not worth the time and no matter what you charge, you will feel it is not enough. It may be cheaper and less labor intensive to R&R the handrails.


 
I used to be a woodworker before and I know all about that... my solution was to flip the boards over and use the fresh side, replace the raliing. Would be cheaper and less of a headache...that was my final prognosis to the HO.


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## Wallnut (May 4, 2010)

TJ Paint said:


> So they did the project themselves? It was a diy project? Thats what I mean. If they did it themselves, they probably wouldn't be the customer that would want to pay an amount I would see as being profitable.
> 
> Yep.


They had the "handyman" do it and were just unsuspecting HO's with enough money to do it right. They just trusted the person they hired to know. They were willing to pay to have it dont right but understandably they don't want to pay 5-10 grand to have it stripped and then pay for the stain when thats close to the value of a new deck... so I came up with a more cost friendly solution. I think it works. Thanks all.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Wallnut said:


> They had the "handyman" do it and were just unsuspecting HO's with enough money to do it right. They just trusted the person they hired to know. They were willing to pay to have it dont right but understandably they don't want to pay 5-10 grand to have it stripped and then pay for the stain when thats close to the value of a new deck... so I came up with a more cost friendly solution. I think it works. Thanks all.


Sounds like that good deal low price handyman became an expensive choice.
Yes, they might have had enough money to do it right, that doesn't mean thats what they chose to do, or have that buying tendency, perhaps they might after this.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

I would think you would get better results with just keeping the frame & build a new deck!
I would hate to go through all this and not have something beautiful.You probably could re-use some of the deck boards.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

I was thinking the same as Aaron! I have never heard of flipping the boards before, would'nt the paint be on the sides and maybe even dripped under?
But we don't do decks, so what do I know?


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

yeah their "handyman" could give them a good price I bet.:thumbup:
Tell them to install this stuff http://decksupplies.com/product_detail.asp?id=78

It might be more than they want to spend.


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## Wallnut (May 4, 2010)

flipping boards is great because even if its a drip here and there its easy to pop off... they might have to replace some but at least its not a TOTAL scrap. They just trusted this guy because they don't know any better ... he sold them on the idea that this was the BEST thing to do... and they wanted the BEST. They are not value shoppers and will pay for things to be done right. This is just a classic case of not doing homework on who your hiring and what they're saying.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Wallnut said:


> flipping boards is great because even if its a drip here and there its easy to pop off... they might have to replace some but at least its not a TOTAL scrap. They just trusted this guy because they don't know any better ... he sold them on the idea that this was the BEST thing to do... and they wanted the BEST. They are not value shoppers and will pay for things to be done right. This is just a classic case of not doing homework on who your hiring and what they're saying.


This was my example t point. They weren't being cheap, they got hosed by a Guy who was misinformed. It happens. Glad you were able to find a good solution for them. I bet dollars to doughnuts that you will end up the hero, and be their new "go to" Guy, and probably get some referrals too.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

NCPaint1 said:


> This was my example t point. They weren't being cheap, they got hosed by a Guy who was misinformed. It happens. Glad you were able to find a good solution for them. I bet dollars to doughnuts that you will end up the hero, and be their new "go to" Guy, and probably get some referrals too.


I'd still say either they are horrible shoppers, or they went with the cheaper bid. If they had three bids, I bet he was the lowest.
(why do I got to be right all the time?)


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

I can see some guy coming in, sounding knowledgeable, nice polo shirt, presentation folder, etc and selling them on what he thought (mistakenly) was best. Heck, it could have been one of our members!


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

RCP said:


> I can see some guy coming in, sounding knowledgeable, nice polo shirt, presentation folder, etc and selling them on what he thought (mistakenly) was best. Heck, it could have been one of our members!


I can't. I mean, think of the pool of paint contractors if this was the best out of the choices available for them.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

TJ Paint said:


> I can't. I mean, think of the pool of paint contractors if this was the best out of the choices available for them.



Maybe they thought he WAS the best, and it turned out to be a bad decision. I make bad decisions daily. It happens.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

NCPaint1 said:


> Maybe they thought he WAS the best, and it turned out to be a bad decision. I make bad decisions daily. It happens.


me too. Meeting up with my bi=polar ex girlfriend last nite was the worst one this week for me.:blink:


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