# Festool CT33 VS CT26



## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

I'm deciding between these two extractors....

Here's the site of the local store... http://www.feldercanada.com/html/festool/festool_dust_extractors.html

The CT33 is last years model and its being sold for $600 even.

The CT26 is a current model for $635.

The price isn't my deciding factor....size is. The 33 is bigger and heavier. The majority of my use will be transporting it around to customers houses. 

If some has some experience with these sizes, let me know if you feel the size is a hinderance at all.


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

We use the ct26. Personally, I think the 33 would be bigger than necessary. 

I've had to start thinking differently about these things. We have used the fein turbos alot over the years for general cleanup, trim prep dust sucking, and occasional hook up to sanders for dust extraction. 

With the Ct extractors, we are now hooking up sanders over 90% of the time (whenever physically possible), which makes the extractor more of a constant companion than the old vacs were. This is where i wonder if the 33 would be too cumbersome. It takes a long time to fill up a ct26 bag when used primarily for extraction. 

I'd be curious to hear what ct33 owners have to say.


----------



## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

That's exactly my thinking. The bigger one is actually less money, but I'm thinking just along those lines that the extra few inches and pounds is just enough to make it cumbersome. 

Do you find with yours the size is ok in residential settings?


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Paint and Hammer said:


> That's exactly my thinking. The bigger one is actually less money, but I'm thinking just along those lines that the extra few inches and pounds is just enough to make it cumbersome.
> 
> Do you find with yours the size is ok in residential settings?


Totally. I want to supplement it with one of the two smaller units. With a crew its important to be able to run two extraction setups simultaneously. So we are demo-ing both in order to figure out which to invest in. I definitely think the 26 is just the right size are a primary rig. 

I have a carpenter friend with an old ct33 and I think the brake system on those was not as good as on the new ones. Such a simple thing, but its handy as heck. Also, I dont think the old ones would have the autoclean feature.


----------



## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

Good points....thanks. 

The other difference that I am aware of is the new model opens completely and the older one like a clam. The change apparently was due to people ripping the bags


----------



## StevenH (Sep 7, 2009)

The CT ,26, 36,48 are dust extractors can be used for paint dust or wood dust. But really it is designed for large wood chips because of larger capacity.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

We ended up pulling the CT 26 out of production almost as fast as it went it because of the two fixed wheels. I'm a huge fan of four caster vacs and not having that mobility made using the CT 26 very non-productive. So as luck would have it, there were 3 mounting holes near the rear fixed wheels for a boom arm accessory. We ended up mounting two casters in those holes. 360 mobility. Now the CT 26 can twirl on a dime. :thumbsup:


----------



## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Who is going to start a "Pimp my vac" blog?


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

DeanV said:


> Who is going to start a "Pimp my vac" blog?


Already got that going...

We've pimped the CT 26 with...

Cig Lighter
4 casters
Secondary Outlet
2 HID headlights
Swapped the power cord

We removed the cig lighter to have a push button added to the dash for the HID's. Currently changing out the HID's for another option to get 1400 lumens. I'll post when completed.


----------



## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

Only you would pimp a Festool Jack.

I ended up buying the CT 26 and the RO125. I've run that sander more than 4 hours in one day more than a few times. 

The RO 90 looks like a good addition. 

Probably the one thing that stood out with this sander was no matter how hard I pushed it, it didn't get hot in the hand. My arms weren't numb to the shoulders either.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Paint and Hammer said:


> Only you would pimp a Festool Jack.
> 
> I ended up buying the CT 26 and the RO125. I've run that sander more than 4 hours in one day more than a few times.
> 
> ...


Good to hear you are happy with the purchase. The RO 90 has a place in the truck no doubt. We have 3 entire stairways to sand and refinish and the RO 90 is the perfect tool for that. One thing for certain with Festool is you can tell the engineering behind the tool the first time its used. The CT 26 has some impressive engineering in the design. It's practically noticeable with each inch you look at and I've had my apart several times now.

Here is a better pic. Ended up making a Festool Album on Flickr for all the photos I'll be posting on the mods I've made. It may seem odd, but I am trying to make the CT 26 like my 4 caster RIDGID, as much as possible. Only thing I can't seem to get around is the weight, but oh well. So far, my experience with shop vacs, (and I am a clean freak) is the RIDGID reviewed on the site is the most efficient shop vac I've used to date. It wasn't until I got the CT on the job when the full impact of efficiency of the RIDGID became clear, required and quickly missed.

The casters extend further than the stock wheels so the stock wheels are off the ground but left in place for looks.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

This isn't over doing it is it?


----------



## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

:thumbup:

Is that Ultraviolet? (I'd put a laughing emoticon after that statement, but then again you 'are' a clean freak)

Ummm, the Festool on the wheel is up side down.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

This is better... more glow effect.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Paint and Hammer said:


> :thumbup:
> 
> Is that Ultraviolet? (I'd put a laughing emoticon after that statement, but then again you 'are' a clean freak)
> 
> Ummm, the Festool on the wheel is up side down.


haha yeah of course it is... to kill off that 1% HEPA discrepancy. :thumbsup:


----------



## Scraper (Nov 22, 2009)

I have a hopefully not so dumb question... Are these approved for rrp? and can it use a beater bar? I looked at the accessory kits and didn't see one.


----------



## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Scraper said:


> I have a hopefully not so dumb question... Are these approved for rrp? and can it use a beater bar? I looked at the accessory kits and didn't see one.


The EPA dose not test and approve vacuums. But it dose meet there requirements for HEPA filtration. Festool also makes a beater bar for it, just have to look around.


----------



## StevenH (Sep 7, 2009)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> The EPA dose not test and approve vacuums. But it dose meet there requirements for HEPA filtration. Festool also makes a beater bar for it, just have to look around.



I talked to my rep about that. He said that their HEPA filters does meet EPA requirements. But for the vacuum itself, he cannot answer.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Many lighting possibilities and arrangements for the Festool CT 26 Extractor. This one uses two of the same light mounting the light base using the lower left and right dash mount screw. This light adjusts easy when needed to raise up or lower towards the floor.



Another mounting option


----------



## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

Scott just posted some info about the Festools being RRP Certified here.


----------



## StevenH (Sep 7, 2009)

Festool will be introducing Autoclean in US somewhere next year.
Rep said its for those who do alot of drywall sanding.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

StevenH said:


> Festool will be introducing Autoclean in US somewhere next year.
> Rep said its for those who do alot of drywall sanding.


It's pretty awesome how auto clean works. Wonder if somehow I can video tape it happening from the inlet hose hole. 

That secondary outlet module is another must have part.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

StevenH said:


> Rep said its for those who do alot of drywall sanding.


This is where you have to separate what reps say from reality. Our short run with the CT 26 on minor patch use created a thick layer over the entire bag. I'll get pics. Even after auto clean, there are large patches of caked dust lining the bag visible through the opening. It's needs auto clean IMO


----------



## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

I don't get it, why do you need the lights on it for? It's like the headlights on my riding mower!


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

RCP said:


> I don't get it, why do you need the lights on it for? It's like the headlights on my riding mower!


As you know, NC makes up for a large portion of our work. We are losing daylight fast as we move into winter. Many of our houses do not have lighting and it's minimal at that. Also we are running cords into the houses from the temp pole by the road. Basements rarely have any lights and many of ours have finished basements. 

Because the shop Vac runs frequently throughout finishing a home, it's more efficient to not run a second cord and fish for lights because you're never in a place long sweeping. Sometimes the room will have a light but not the master bath and closets or darker corners of the house. 

The light shown provides more than enough light to send a guy around with a Vac and self contained lighting. It's super efficient for us. Using the secondary outlet allows 2 additional clamp on can lights to be attached to the hose garage pointing directly at the ceiling. It's a real nice contained system to have all the lighting without pulling cords and moving lights or driving the Vac over more extension cords.


----------



## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

Ah, I see, I was just thinking you were getting the low light. Thanks


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Chris, did u see Scott's tower of power rig? Holy crap, the weight of moving that around would wipe me out. Im complaining about 25 lbs as it is with an empty bag. Certainly that's not something you'd be pushing around a house up and down stairs etc. Nice setup but even nicer in the corner of a shop. I need to have mobility and efficiency.


----------



## StevenH (Sep 7, 2009)

jack pauhl said:


> This is where you have to separate what reps say from reality. Our short run with the CT 26 on minor patch use created a thick layer over the entire bag. I'll get pics. Even after auto clean, there are large patches of caked dust lining the bag visible through the opening. It's needs auto clean IMO


Auto Clean is for cleaning filters only not the bag.
Is your machine shutting down often?

They did testing where they pushed the limit of what the bag can hold(drwall dust). The machine will shut down when it cannot hold no more. When they removed the bag it was 60 pounds and hard as a rock.


----------



## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> Chris, did u see Scott's tower of power rig? Holy crap, the weight of moving that around would wipe me out. Im complaining about 25 lbs as it is with an empty bag. Certainly that's not something you'd be pushing around a house up and down stairs etc. Nice setup but even nicer in the corner of a shop. I need to have mobility and efficiency.


Rob and were looking at that last night, yes, that's how we spend our Friday nights!

He really wants to get one, there have been a few homes that they are in for several weeks or months with a lot of finish work that it would be ideal for, he has actually been looking for some type of portable workstation/tool holder like that. Especially in a home that some areas are finished and work continues in stages.
For the quick "production" type homes we do, he is happy with his rigid vac, there will always be a place for the $50 dollar beast thats keeps on sucking! He has three, one is 6 years old and refuses to die, they just have to buy new attachments cause they get worn down!

As far as the lights, he wants to know if it is really enough light? He always has power in the house available, and they use those hat clip lights for the closets and the pole lights. He also wanted me to ask you if those modifications voided the warranty? He had a bad experience with doing a modification on his truck. Is it the same?


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> Chris, did u see Scott's tower of power rig? Holy crap, the weight of moving that around would wipe me out. Im complaining about 25 lbs as it is with an empty bag. Certainly that's not something you'd be pushing around a house up and down stairs etc. Nice setup but even nicer in the corner of a shop. I need to have mobility and efficiency.


Jack

My setup would definitely not fit your style. 

It fits mine because it breaks down ridiculously easy for transport, and sets up with nothing more than an onboard allen tool. About 2 minutes. Weight is not an issue when rolling on casters. So, its a solid setup for shop or field. 

It may be that I do larger than normal houses, but we can set that rig up on a floor, with a splitter and two hose setups and service an entire wing or floor with one centralized, fully equipped rig serving two guys with sanders. We know exactly how many total feet of hose we can run off one extractor without compromising suction, so I am setting up this particular rig to do a specific job. I am probably not as systematized as you are because every house we do is radically different and requires specific set ups. That is what I like about the fes stuff. Lots of options for customization. We all can appreciate that. 

I know you move differently than most through a house, but I have high hopes for this set up in my business. 

It could be cumbersome for one-offs, but thats not what I do.


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

StevenH said:


> Auto Clean is for cleaning filters only not the bag.
> Is your machine shutting down often?
> 
> They did testing where they pushed the limit of what the bag can hold(drwall dust). The machine will shut down when it cannot hold no more. When they removed the bag it was 60 pounds and hard as a rock.


Steven

You are correct. 

Here is a link to clarify:

http://www.festool.co.uk/Products/P...ractor-CLEANTEX-CTL-26-AC-CTL-26-E-AC-GB-110V

Jack may have been thinking of the self cleaning filter bag system, which is a different feature wherein the bag collapses on itself when the unit is shut off in order to shake itself down and avoid internal buildup.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

StevenH said:


> Auto Clean is for cleaning filters only not the bag.
> Is your machine shutting down often?
> 
> They did testing where they pushed the limit of what the bag can hold(drwall dust). The machine will shut down when it cannot hold no more. When they removed the bag it was 60 pounds and hard as a rock.


haha that won't surprise me if you are correct on that. I know on the Mirka 912 its the main filter that gets clean. 

It never shut down but we had a smaller house we used it on for some minor drywall patch sanding and I was surprised how much it packed to the inside of the bag. I don't have a scale here to weight but I'm guessing it is about 2 maybe 3 lbs worth combined drywall dust and debris. It could very well be the design of the collapsing bags and that would sort of explain the ineffectiveness of it because the bag wouldn't collapse the same way twice but the more its turned off or shuffled around would assist in the self cleaning. Sort of seems silly it that is in fact how it works.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> Steven
> 
> You are correct.
> 
> ...


Sorry, missed this while I was typing my reply to steve.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> so I am setting up this particular rig to do a specific job.


Do u mean in general "specific job" or do you mean you have a job you are setting it up to do something specific?

Definitely, not my style. I saw your pic and thought no way in hell on my jobs. We are certainly not the types to set up a kitchen and serve lunch and coffee. Have you seen those guys before? They basically move in and I'm not talking big houses either. Still looking at a 50lb rig there sitting empty. Im curious over time if you'll love it or hate it. Never know.


----------



## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> haha that won't surprise me if you are correct on that. I know on the Mirka 912 its the main filter that gets clean.
> 
> It never shut down but we had a smaller house we used it on for some minor drywall patch sanding and I was surprised how much it packed to the inside of the bag. I don't have a scale here to weight but I'm guessing it is about 2 maybe 3 lbs worth combined drywall dust and debris. It could very well be the design of the collapsing bags and that would sort of explain the ineffectiveness of it because the bag wouldn't collapse the same way twice but the more its turned off or shuffled around would assist in the self cleaning. Sort of seems silly it that is in fact how it works.


Jack, is that the same one you were using as a cooler for the mountain dew? Did you get the dispenser mod working?


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> Do u mean in general "specific job" or do you mean you have a job you are setting it up to do something specific?
> 
> Definitely, not my style. I saw your pic and thought no way in hell on my jobs. We are certainly not the types to set up a kitchen and serve lunch and coffee. Have you seen those guys before? They basically move in and I'm not talking big houses either. Still looking at a 50lb rig there sitting empty. Im curious over time if you'll love it or hate it. Never know.


Good question Jack. 

What I meant was, I am outfitting this unit for a specific project that we have coming up, that will be sequenced and executed in a certain way (requiring a particular type of team approach by my crew). I am going to test this rig on a small scale interior of similar detail but smaller scope, tweak it, and then set up a twin to it. I will have two of these on the job. They will not have to leave the floor (ie 1st floor, 2nd flr, 3rd flr and finished basement) that they will be assigned to very much. One of the biggest challenges in our nc work is not wanting to tie up our space with equipment, and not wanting to have to go to a consolidated storage area or worse yet, a truck to get things. That is part of the necessity for self contained units. These ct units will be so specialized that they will not even be doing general cleanup. They are set up to extract, and to facilitate two sanders simultaneously. 

All of this is why I am nutty about floor space. Most of my stuff these days is geared to eliminating occupied floor space...in the shop, in the trucks, and in the field (most importantly). That is why erecta rack is such a key for us. Love racking 1600 lf of drying lumber on 50 sf of floor. 

I set up a sysport the other day for the same reason. Specialized pairing of sanders and abrasives in a vertical containment system that occupies less floor space than an extractor...love it. 

Back to your question...to me, part of the value of investing in tools like this is the flexibility to accessorize as needed for specific tasks. Not sure what you have for fes sanders beyond the ro90, but there is quite a world of possibilities when you look at the whole line and hold it up against the most common tasks that you do in painting. Specialized sander/extractors/abrasives and setups for situations.

This will vary greatly for me when I go from the traditional trim heavy painted custom nc to the sleek contemporary clear or stain grade understated but gauche architectural wet dream. The extractors may be the only common denominator for me from project to project. Its nice to have options. So, yes, I think it is possible, unless every house you do is pretty similar, to have options for task specific (and situational variables) from project to project that would make customization of process necessary.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

If you heard the auto clean working, it sounds like the bag loses air (the vac loses suction during the clean stage) and instantly refills with a snap like you would snap a towel. It really surprises me it doesn't work that way. Thats a great invention idea to incorporate into a vac to get the most out of the bag. Because otherwise, say you pole sand a room out of level 5 and your bag embeds with drywall dust, this dust won't break free until the vac is turned off then by bag deflation it will crumble to the bottom of the bag.


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

It doesn't sound like that is working properly.


----------



## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Not sure we are all talking the same thing though. Jack has an extra dial on the front of his thay old version does not have not the current pics at festool usa. Is his an europe version?


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Scott, that makes sense. We've done similar custom setups unrelated to vacs. I suppose for guys in restoration work then that too might be a solution. 

You know I don't share my stuff online, but here I wish I could for illustration. Pics are worth a thousand words. I'll just say, my personal setup is very compact, it fits in the trunk of a car. My whole thing is packing light, everything evolves under that design. Sacrifices and compromises, certainly, but only in features and never with efficiency. I'm constantly bringing in new and out with the old as I stumble on better solutions. 

As far as the other Festool products and as impressive as some are, I have no interest past the RO 90 and my CEROS and turned down a couple offers to get my hands on some. We simply don't have a need for them like it sounds like you do. The RO 90 has been something I've wanted for a long time and the CEROS replaces my Porter Cable 5" and opened up so much more possibilities. I sanded the entire front of a smooth cedar house with that CEROS and loved every minute of it. Again, my attraction (or obsession) with compact was the CEROS design. It's really a nice 'feel' to be down on your stuff with that low profile balanced lightweight design especially when its pressed against a wall. Personally, thats how sanding should be. 

But back to the CT 26... I've got some mods going that I hope make the vac more like my RIDGID and more efficient to use for both general and extraction applications but only time will tell. My two biggest gripes were the power cord and the lack of 4 casters and you saw the fun we had with it. Those are must-haves for me to do my thing. If it was occasional cleaning then it may not have been a big deal but that RIDGID ran all the time and so will the CT 26 once details are worked out. 

I hear what you're saying about building up based on the Festool "system' and its possibilities, it will fit the needs of many no doubt. But you saw the mods I'm after and super simplistic efficiency design options were overlooked. The CT 26 needs a retraceable power cord too. I'm tossing around the idea of giving up tank space to install one but the other option would be to mount one in the holes for the cord wrap accessory on the back of the machine. I found one compact that would do the trick. That would cut cord time down to virtually nothing and free up my hose garage a bit. 

So did u get rid of the two MIDI's and end up going with CT 26's?


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

DeanV said:


> Not sure we are all talking the same thing though. Jack has an extra dial on the front of his thay old version does not have not the current pics at festool usa. Is his an europe version?


Yes, mine is. That big ol yellow connector on the front. Setup for the Planex.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

RCP said:


> Jack, is that the same one you were using as a cooler for the mountain dew? Did you get the dispenser mod working?


Yes, this is the same vac. So far all mods have been simple and utilize the secondary outlet for power. Just like plugging anything else you might plug into an outlet. But this cooler conversion doesn't get refrigeration.


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Jack

Part of the difference in our goals is that I am outfitting my crews for custom work, while you are like an Olympic athlete/painter. I teach guys how to work together as one large crew or divided up into teams. In my case, the projects drive the systems. 

Regarding the extractors, your mod of the casters is (to me and my purposes) entirely unnecessary. I can spin all of my rigs (3 tall ones in shop right now) right around in circles with stock casters. I dont need a cigarette lighter wired in, or a usb port, or headlights or the ability to pull the guts and use it as a soda cooler, and the cord is no problem at all. Those are not issues for me. They seem like more comfort zone goals for you, and that can be an important part of going out there and doing what you do. I do, however, believe that you keep track of cord time and that a second here or there would make a huge difference to you. 

Those things dont reflect design flaws at all. They reflect personal preference. If you want a Festool to perform like a Rigid, just use a Rigid. That should be that. To me, its like saying "I want my Porsche to be more like my wife's Toyota." But I do know you well enough to know that half the journey is in tinkering and mods. 

I would just caution you (and others) that you can totally blow a warranty by meddling in the guts of equipment. First thing I wondered when you described the "snap" effect you are getting, is in what way your mods might have thrown off the electrical balance of the machine. 

Circling back though, I love the ro90. It is one of my favorite Festool sanders. What I like about Festool in general is the diversity of sanders. In the past, it was bad orbital, or bad palm buzzer. Now, its great to see a fleet of different shapes and sizes, most with speed control, disc pad options, abrasive options (designed specific to the sanders) and extractor options with many accessories. 

We are currently running all three extractors, and like them all for different situations. Honestly, there are times when the 26 sits in the shop while the mini and midi are the best choices for the situations. 

I think Dean raises a good point though, that your source is sending you uk versions of the tools, which are different from what is on the US market. Not better or worse, just supplied to entirely different markets. There is probably some difference between our extractors that way. To my knowledge, an ro90 is an ro90 though. 

It is really interesting to see how other people do things though. I know you dont share much on the internet, and that is unfortunate. To me, it is like musicians sharing what is in their stack for amplification, pickup configurations, order of effect chains, mic strategies. 

I enjoy the gear side of this business alot, and am lucky to be able to ramp my company up for alot of different types of projects and associated tasks. My goal is not to set new speed records, although several of the tool integrations in recent years have resulted in great production rates. My bigger goal is to gear the process or system to the project. If I estimate a job to take 2 weeks, 2 months or 2 years, I take the challenge of figuring out how to set up a system for the project that will make it as efficient as possible. That is why you might have looked at my 26 setup and thought it was inefficient. For the project it is going on, it is a huge facilitator. 

For every contractor, it comes down to you, your projects and your resources (both human and physical). It will be different for everyone, and especially across such diverse markets and demographics as we are all in. I think there are alot of us who have solutions to share that are helpful. I know I pick and choose and integrate alot of things that I pick up from others, especially outside of the paint trade. 

Good discussion thread, to all involved.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

RCP said:


> Rob and were looking at that last night, yes, that's how we spend our Friday nights!
> 
> He really wants to get one, there have been a few homes that they are in for several weeks or months with a lot of finish work that it would be ideal for, he has actually been looking for some type of portable workstation/tool holder like that. Especially in a home that some areas are finished and work continues in stages.
> For the quick "production" type homes we do, he is happy with his rigid vac, there will always be a place for the $50 dollar beast thats keeps on sucking! He has three, one is 6 years old and refuses to die, they just have to buy new attachments cause they get worn down!
> ...


Two lights are obviously better like shown in the pic. Its freakin bright! Almost too much light, you know how too much light is a bad thing on glare.

Im amazed by my RIDGID. Its been great. I think Rob might understand, Scott too because he had 4 caster Fein I believe... once u have 4 casters, the fixed wheels take away freedom.

As far as attachments for the RIDGID, same here. Fast wearing. Although, the most used was the round brush. They come long new. I cut half the filament length off before I use them. That work so much better short but again, shorter life too. Still looking for a good round brush attachment in that same larger size. I think its 2.5".

If swapping the power cord voids warranty, so be it. No idea and don't care. The power cord plugs into the dash. It's not a wiring related modification. Unplug one, plug in the other. No wiring needed. My $59 RIDGID got me 6 years so the CT better outlast it.

All the other mods simply use the 2nd outlet. Plugging various items into an outlet shouldn't void warranty. He wants those running light doesn't he?


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> Jack
> 
> Good discussion thread, to all involved.


No wonder Scott. My systems eliminate crews! :thumbsup: j/k but not really


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> Im amazed by my RIDGID. Its been great. I think Rob might understand, Scott too because he had 4 caster Fein I believe... once u have 4 casters, the fixed wheels take away freedom.


Jack

I have 5 feins (I think). 4 casters no longer appeal to me. They have no directional sensibility to me anymore. The fixed rears and the brake system on the ct's are preferable to me. We ran nothing but the fein's, in all sizes, for years. They are good vacs.

(note the repeated use of the phrase "to me")!


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> No wonder Scott. My systems eliminate crews! :thumbsup: j/k but not really


Fortunately for all painters on crews in the world, the world will never know your systems. Crews will be safe!

Seriously, though, from all that you describe in your digital life, you sound like a very efficient painter. But so is Daniel Tambasco - guarantee you he could beat you in any physical fitness or paint related competition where speed was the goal. 

There are lots of two man power duos in my area. I respect that. On bad days, my ops mgr and I joke about going back to that. But overall, we prefer a good crew. We have them trained to the point where they can keep up with us.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Are you ready to have a little sit down yet? I'd like the opportunity to talk so you're not wasting time replying to me on subject matter I am unable to respond to.


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> Are you ready to have a little sit down yet? I'd like the opportunity to talk so you're not wasting time replying to me on subject matter I am unable to respond to.


That would save us alot of keyboard wear and tear. Sounds good.


----------



## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

Only if you post the transcripts, I learned a lot from this thread!


----------



## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

RCP said:


> Only if you post the transcripts, I learned a lot from this thread!


....agreed.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

I am unable to talk about some things and it makes it somewhat complicated to have certain discussions. I'm sure Scott would appreciate not typing all that stuff to me when it doesn't relate to me. 

But once again, its very clear my views on being efficient are different and because of that, I am unable to relate to going backwards from where I am in the efficiency scheme of things. Those previous things become (does not apply) in my world. From my perspective, it sort of defeats the purpose of efficiency when you ignore the very principles behind it. 

The power cord on the CT was a real problem with me for example. It would be on any vac or extension cords. I found the CT cord to be a trip hazard due to its clinginess, self raveling and 'mind of its own' behavior. The experience is obviously more real when you take the vac all throughout the house up and down floors. After the RIDGID, having to deal with a cord on any level would be an inconvenience to me. 

I'm the guy running this CT 26, no one else and when I am on my knees working my way through a hallway back past the vac, all I want to do is nudge it with my head, arm, elbow, foot, bill of my hat or tug of the hose and have it move out of my way. The moment you put your hands on that vac from my perspective of efficiency, then its not being efficient to use. Festool acknowledges the limitations of steering the vac and offer an accessory to assist with better steering and handling. 

I've got one of those stainless steel shop vac brand vacs with 2 fixed wheels in the rear. I took it on the job one day and never again. My plan was to return it but it sits in the garage and was never used because of the poor maneuverability in comparison to 4 casters.

Its just a couple of those things that either mean something or they don't to the consumer. Festool also acknowledged requests other than my own for 4 caster conversion options for the CT. Also read other reviews mentioning the 2 fixed wheels, so its out there as an option others would like to see on the CT. Their reasons for it are like my own.

Here's one for ya.. if I walked on a job and notice the trim carpenter used staples to fasten the casing to the jamb ends and nails on the rest, I could count the staples on 2 casings, pull an average and calculate how much longer it will take to fill staple holes vs round holes and bill or bid accordingly. Not a ton of difference but a difference nonetheless and when you can count up 100 (to throw and easy number) at these sorts of things, its when systems are designed to combat them. Take the difference of filling staples vs nails on 56 door jambs and its more than a days work.

This photo below, lets say you have 4 rooms with sliding doors for closets. They have bare poplar extension jambs, these blocks for the guides and a fastener at the top of each door to allow you to remove the doors vs 2 double swing doors with a ball catch at the top and no bare wood. Again, I would know exactly how long it will take to pull 4 sliders, prime the jambs and handle the tracks to get the doors off for comparison. Is it an hour? Two hours? Times that by 100 small things like that on a house and the difference in being efficient it so widely noticeable. What if these were bi-folds? Is that more or less time to complete? What if the design is that the doors need removed by releasing the screw at the top vs pulling up and popping off. Is that a small amount of difference or substantial when you have 12 of them? 

So anyway, this is how Maximum Painting works at the stupid silly things that make the difference in being efficient or just being done. After all, its why 2 painters were able to do more volume vs 10 painters. And that is fairly substantial if you ask me and way more common than you may think.


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Fortunately, there are bunch of us around the country - and I know this to be factual because I have spoken with enough owners, seen enough footage, talked enough shop - who are able to hire, train and supervise and have several teams of two ("who are better than ten", as you say), all working together. 

Imagine a world where there is the same amount of emphasis on the human side of the equation as we put into tools, materials, products...Teambuilding, company culture, incentive, proper compensation, benefits, best possible work conditions and practices, appreciative customers.

Put those things together, add the wisdom of the best engineers and marketers at every top manufacturer in the world, and...

That is Topcoat...

I AM JOKING, for illustration. (Or am I?) 

I do think that alot of your tales are probably true, that you go around rescuing projects gone awry. Lord knows there are enough of them. It may be a reflection on you as some kind of paint savant, or it may be a reflection of the reality that there are alot of poorly assembled and operated paint contracting companies out there. 

Ever wonder what it would be like to swap businesses here on painttalk? Get 20 of us to randomly draw another members business out of a hat and run it for a month? No two would be the same. That is why I have always hesitated in my capacity as a writer to *prescribe* to paint contractors that there is one way to efficiency. There are many ways to efficiency. Your efficiency fits your model. 

Paint contracting by prescription probably wouldnt work. That is why your helpful tips and tricks for paint contractors are great. And the reviews that we all do are helpful to each other. 

Paint contracting is more like solving a puzzle, and everyones puzzle is different. So you are correct when you say that my words dont really apply to you. My words wont apply across the board to anyone. 

By the same token, yours may not apply to anyone. 

But, there is enough commonality in paint contracting -- we all pretty much do similar tasks and processes at the end of the day -- to make it valuable to all to bounce ideas around and work toward our nirvana of efficiency.


----------

