# Filler primer for wood? Such a thing?



## Wade0731 (Oct 14, 2021)

Hello,

I come from the autobody world where high build filler primer is used and it works very well for leveling out surfaces. Is there such a thing for wood? I am taking on an oak cabinet project where I need to fill the wood grain. I'd like to spray on a few coats of primer, sand, and the wood grain be gone. Trying to work smarter not harder here lol! I'm wondering if rustoleum automotive filller primer would work on wood? Any other products you've used to such as a wood filler primer?

Thanks!!


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Wade0731 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I come from the autobody world where high build filler primer is used and it works very well for leveling out surfaces. Is there such a thing for wood? I am taking on an oak cabinet project where I need to fill the wood grain. I'd like to spray on a few coats of primer, sand, and the wood grain be gone. Trying to work smarter not harder here lol! I'm wondering if rustoleum automotive filller primer would work on wood? Any other products you've used to such as a wood filler primer?
> 
> Thanks!!


Two coats Zinsser Smartprime. 

Sand smooth, and ready for paint.


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## Wade0731 (Oct 14, 2021)

Holland said:


> insser Smartprim


I'm assuming the first coat will be moderate and then a heavy second coat? Sand with 220? 300?


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Wade0731 said:


> I'm assuming the first coat will be moderate and then a heavy second coat? Sand with 220? 300?


Centurion 1107 primer. Its really amazing. 1 coat 10miles wet will fill oak grain


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## Wade0731 (Oct 14, 2021)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Centurion 1107 primer. Its really amazing. 1 coat 10miles wet will fill oak grain


Wow I just watched a video on it. Impressive. Would you sand, then spray centurion, then seal it, then top coat? What sealer would you do, would you use an enamel paint?
Thank you!!


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

Very similar high build filler type primers used in the autobody world are also used for closed pore wood finishing. You might consider shooting a couple of coats of a high build polyester undercoater over a polyurethane barrier sealer finished off with a 2K urethane. Ilva has some pretty great systems for closed pore high build mirror-like finishes. The benefit of polyester vs polyurethane undercoaters is is that polyester doesn’t shrink back.

I’ve included the following literate below where you can find info on Ilva’s closed pore finishing systems.

https://www.ics-ilva.com/downloads/ILVA-Red-Book-2018.pdf

I’ve also used high build automotive polyester undercoaters such as EverCoat’s Feather Fill on wood, but I’d recommend using a polyurethane barrier sealer, polyester undercoater, and top coat system by Ilva in lieu of automotive polyester undercoaters, being that it’s been tried, proven, and lasting, particularly in the luxury yacht industry.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Wade0731 said:


> Wow I just watched a video on it. Impressive. Would you sand, then spray centurion, then seal it, then top coat? What sealer would you do, would you use an enamel paint?
> Thank you!!


Use their 2800 series waterborne


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Centurion 1107 primer. Its really amazing. 1 coat 10miles wet will fill oak grain




Vessel diameters in mature red oaks are > .012 inches or 12 mils, so I doubt 1 coat @ a 10 mil wet film thickness with a waterborne undercoater is remotely adequate to fill pores..

You can achieve a 12 mil dry film thickness with a polyester surfacer such as Feather Fill G2 with 3 coats applied in as little as 5 minute intervals, and have it sand-ready in < 1.5 hrs

Probably looking at 3-4 coats of the 1107 for 100% pore fill on mature red oak.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Redux said:


> Vessel diameters in mature red oaks are > .012 inches or 12 mils, so I doubt 1 coat @ a 10 mil wet film thickness with a waterborne undercoater is remotely adequate to fill pores..
> 
> You can achieve a 12 mil dry film thickness with a polyester surfacer such as Feather Fill G2 with 3 coats applied in as little as 5 minute intervals, and have it sand-ready in < 1.5 hrs
> 
> Probably looking at 3-4 coats of the 1107 for 100% pore fill on mature red oak.


if I never have to look at a can of polyester again that would be great. The pot life and cleanup basically make it a non starter for me. Water based 2k and goodfilla are enough for me for now


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## Wade0731 (Oct 14, 2021)

Thanks for the tips everyone. When it comes to spraying on wood I am new to finishing. With things like centurion and other brands..what top coats and sealers can I use alongside them? Can I use enamel paint with a polyester or the centurion etc? If someone could lay out the steps they like to take with the cabinets it would be much appreciated and I'm sure would help others too.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

Its important to note that Redux is talking about some seriously specialized, factory grade products here, that most painters have no clue about, and you will have a problem finding them in a store without a special order. 

As far as regular old, professional painting, primers wont do the trick, not even auto filler primer. Ive done it. Ive found that the first prime coat on oak needs to be backbrushed or rolled, just to get in the grain properly, and thats not filling it, just getting the paint in. Just like a major gouge on a car body wont fill with primer, and needs spot putty. Most people that actually want to fill oak grain do it like applying spot putty. Im not contesting Redux and Coco... I believe them about their products but they arent your everyday paint store primers. 

The fact is, waterborne primers are just as high build as auto filler primer, they just arent as sandable. Lacquer undercoaters are pretty close to auto primer, but theres debate on what they can and cant be used over and under.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

This is 1 coat of Smart Prime (aka 123 Plus) sands to powder (see photo) with 220 after 1 hour dry time.


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## Wade0731 (Oct 14, 2021)

Holland said:


> View attachment 112851
> 
> This is 1 coat of Smart Prime (aka 123 Plus) sands to powder (see photo) with 220 after 1 hour dry time.


Dang..how many coats do you think would completely fill it?


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Wade0731 said:


> Dang..how many coats do you think would completely fill it?


2 should do it. Like @Woodco said, it’s a high build primer, and DIY friendly.


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## Wade0731 (Oct 14, 2021)

Holland said:


> 2 should do it. Like @Woodco said, it’s a high build primer, and DIY friendly.


I believe smart prime and bullseye 1 2 3 are different products right?


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Wade0731 said:


> I believe smart prime and bullseye 1 2 3 are different products right?


yes, SmartPrime and Bullseye123 are different primers. *SmartPrime is sometimes sold as 123Plus.

SmartPrime (aka. 123Plus) is a “stain locking” water based primer, which you will want for Oak.
Bullseye123 is a universal water based primer.


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

Smart Prime DFT 1-1.5 mils

Sikkens High Build 2K urethane Surfacer DFT 2.7 mils

Axalta Pre-Cat Lacquer Undercoater DFT 1 mil

EverCoat Slicksand High Build Polyester Spray Filler DFT 6 mils

Based on DFTs for above mentioned products, for a sprayable pore filler on oak, I’d opt for polyester….but I wouldn’t apply wet on wet…rather, I’d allow each coat to dry and knock each coat down with sandpaper in order to minimize the chances for developing pinholes. It’s certainly a lot faster than using conventional grain fillers which also require multiple coats. I’d also opt for a soup to nuts system which includes a PU isolator and 2K PU top coat.

Although having only utilized polyester for pore filling on a few occasions, I was further sold on the concept a few weeks ago when touring a millwork facility which manufactures wood interiors for luxury yachts & aircraft. Their finishing department solely uses polyester for pore filling under 95%+ sheen finishes. Nicest work I’ve ever seen.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

Will these spray out of a normal airless?


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

Woodco said:


> Will these spray out of a normal airless?


Due to polyester’s very short pot life, it’s not something you’d want to run through anything other than a conventional air driven/gravity feed gun. You’d need to break down the gun and clean it in typically under 30 minutes, give or take, sometimes even sooner.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Woodco said:


> Will these spray out of a normal airless?


goodfilla yes if you mix thin enough, you can even add it into smart prime if you want.
polyester i would only use a cheap HF gun and toss it after. I tried polyester once since jeff jewitt speaks highly of the material in his books. It works great but not a friendly product to work with. IMO any time savings by using such a fast material are negated by the time spent keeping equipment clean with solvents.
centurion 1107 yes, has a sufficiently long pot life to spray airless. see it sprayed here with a x08 orifice.





Their 2800 series topcoat has tint bases you can dispense BM formulas into and match reasonably close. They'll be coming out with a solvent 2K and exterior stuff soon as I'm told.


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

If this were just a one off type project, I think the best approach to working smarter, might actually be working harder by just using a hand applied conventional grain filler or even a couple of coats of M&H Ready Patch. What I like about Ready Patch is that it’s a solvent based alkyd filler and will never turn to a crumbly brittle dust beneath the film if exposed to moisture at some given point like most water soluble grain fillers do.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Redux said:


> If this were just a one off type project, I think the best approach to working smarter, might actually be working harder by just using a hand applied conventional grain filler or even a couple of coats of M&H Ready Patch. What I like about Ready Patch is that it’s a solvent based alkyd filler and will never turn to a crumbly brittle dust beneath the film if exposed to moisture at some given point like most water soluble grain fillers do.


Have you tried solarez? Its a UV cure polyester trowelable filler


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Have you tried solarez? Its a UV cure polyester trowelable filler


Haven’t tried it…I think I recall Bondo having a UV cure polyester resin filler at one point…not to be confused with their UV cure spot putty filler..


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## celicaxx (May 29, 2015)

I will answer your first question directly with yes, Rustoleum rattlecan filler primer actually does work fantastic on wood, I recently used it on a DIY project after having some leftover for my first foray into autobody and it worked marvelously. The closest thing in house painting land I could compare it to would actually be Zinnser BIN, but BIN while not "high build" matched it in time to be sandable and sanding to powder well. Even a primer like Zinsser Coverstain or most other oil primers will be fairly "high build" too, but the flow out of them isn't that great and they're thick and goopy, and take a couple of days to sand to powder, whereas the rattlecan 2 in 1 filler primer is generally ready in 3-4 hours. 

I don't know how big/how many cabinets you need to do, but if it's a small project like a bathroom vanity I kinda think it would actually be ideal except for the smell aspect, because 2-3 cans in and you'd be done, but an entire kitchen you'd probably end up at 10-15 rattlecans worth and then cost/efficiency wise you'd be better off spraying from a gallon (remember, wood is more porous.) 

Also, to steal something from autobody you could use the red Bondo glazing putty as grain filler, too, and you can actually thin it down a little with acetone and/or revive the dried chunks from when you're troweling it out, but it's definitely inconclusive if it will flash or not under latex paint, but if you top coated with said Rustoleum filler primer, it wouldn't. 

I never experimented with a latex top coat on top of the Rusto filler primer, though, my _guess_ is it would probably work well being that it's essentially just a porous oil primer.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

I like the sound of that Centurian 1107. Although how is the bonding power on a repaint situation? I would probably still bank on 2 coats and backroll atleast the first coat. My only beef with 2 much build, is that it will start forming a bridge over the floating panel on the doors looking unsightly and be prone to cracking. I would think that a grain filler is still the best option. I just skimmed some dryed out end panels with this stuff yesterday,DYNAMIC JE085003 860mL Dyna Patch Pro Spackling Compound | Investments Hardware Limited. then sanded down with my festool. Turned out fantastic. That spackle is my new favorite all around filler lately.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

finishesbykevyn said:


> I like the sound of that Centurian 1107. Although how is the bonding power on a repaint situation? I would probably still bank on 2 coats and backroll atleast the first coat. My only beef with 2 much build, is that it will start forming a bridge over the floating panel on the doors looking unsightly and be prone to cracking. I would think that a grain filler is still the best option. I just skimmed some dryed out end panels with this stuff yesterday,DYNAMIC JE085003 860mL Dyna Patch Pro Spackling Compound | Investments Hardware Limited. then sanded down with my festool. Turned out fantastic. That spackle is my new favorite all around filler lately.


1107 has excellent bonding and stain/dye/tannin blocking. 2K poly is very flexible and resistant to cracking unlike conversion varnish or lacquer


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## monarchski (Jun 21, 2019)

finishesbykevyn said:


> I like the sound of that Centurian 1107. Although how is the bonding power on a repaint situation? I would probably still bank on 2 coats and backroll atleast the first coat. My only beef with 2 much build, is that it will start forming a bridge over the floating panel on the doors looking unsightly and be prone to cracking. I would think that a grain filler is still the best option. I just skimmed some dryed out end panels with this stuff yesterday,DYNAMIC JE085003 860mL Dyna Patch Pro Spackling Compound | Investments Hardware Limited. then sanded down with my festool. Turned out fantastic. That spackle is my new favorite all around filler lately.


You would do the same thing with the 1107 without all the hand troweling. Spray a heavy coat, sand with your Festool because it will create a lot of dust then apply a second and repeat. It does a great job.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

monarchski said:


> You would do the same thing with the 1107 without all the hand troweling. Spray a heavy coat, sand with your Festool because it will create a lot of dust then apply a second and repeat. It does a great job.


agreed. SmartPrime was also able to fill oak grain.


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

MLC’s Level Primer works pretty well for pore filling and leveling. It can be build up to a 10 mil DFT but can’t be used on recoats…unfinished wood or complete removal of existing coatings only. 

https://www.paintdocs.com/docs/webPDF.jsp?SITEID=MLC&prodno=W122529&doctype=PDS&lang=2


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## gamby (Feb 29, 2008)

Fine Paints of Europe brushing putty


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## bobmax8 (Sep 26, 2011)

Wade0731 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I come from the autobody world where high build filler primer is used and it works very well for leveling out surfaces. Is there such a thing for wood? I am taking on an oak cabinet project where I need to fill the wood grain. I'd like to spray on a few coats of primer, sand, and the wood grain be gone. Trying to work smarter not harder here lol! I'm wondering if rustoleum automotive filller primer would work on wood? Any other products you've used to such as a wood filler primer?
> 
> Thanks!!


I use Sherwin Williams Fast Dry oil primer (green label/interior exterior) when I want to fill rough surfaces. We nick named it "the clump".


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## Respec (Sep 13, 2015)

We just finished an oak cabinet job. Clean/degrease, sand 150, 2 coats of Aqua Coat cabinet grain filler, 2 prime, 2 finish. The Aqua Coat goes on super easy, but shrinks. 2 coats minimum with a light sand between coats. It applies super easy though. Just don't leave any heavy areas or fill detail that would need to be sanded out. Work it into the pores and keep it as clean as possible with your knife. If you keep it clean, the sanding will be easy. If you have heavy spots, it is a pain to sand. A few extra minutes keeping it clean will save time on the back end sanding. After 2 coats of filler, the first prime coat will probably show mild grain, but will fill in on the second coat. It will be smooth for the finish coats.


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## jbosquetmorra (Oct 26, 2021)

bobmax8 said:


> I use Sherwin Williams Fast Dry oil primer (green label/interior exterior) when I want to fill rough surfaces. We nick named it "the clump".


I skim coated with PC Woody on some very grainy window sills, and it make it into a piece of glass. Love that stuff. Much better than bondo or Miniwax (which is like Bondo).


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