# Behr with me...



## HD painting (May 27, 2013)

So I talked with a contractor the other day. He told me before that his favorite paint was behr. The other day he brought up a story about how he played poker with the ex-president of ppg.
His quote to me (ppg ex pres) " if I were gonna paint my house today- I'd use behr paint, they use better raw materials and put more titanium dioxide than everyone else" 
So Full disclosure I use SW but am interested in all things paint. I believe EVERY company makes crap and good products it's all about at what price point are they selling it.
Id like to hear from the behr guys first. (Before the anti behr thread spirals out of control) Pitch it to me. I'm not an SW diehard but I get a great deal. Is be willing to try something new with a open mind. I do know the cheap behr drags and stinks quite a bit. How's the other lines? Marquee I bet is nice...


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

I like it. Their new A and I lines are pretty good. We have used Marque a few times as well and like that also.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

I'm confused.


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

Behr has a lingering amonia smell. It covers well but if its not dragging its streaking its a weird paint that way. I will say that the heavier thickness makes you burn thru it quicker and does not go as far and that is all premium plus. I personally dont like the finish as it has a hard plastic look like cheap lawn furniture just my opinion. I use majority SW as well. It kind of reminds me of MAGIC SHELL for ice cream. WOW I feel old do they even make that anymore.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Oh goodie...


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

BEHR PREMIUM PLUS ULTRA®
Paint & Primer in One

took 3 coats of white to cover WHITE trim:cursing::cursing::cursing:

I would say that sucks:yes:


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

RH said:


> Oh goodie...


I'm staying out of this one.


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## ElTacoPaco (Dec 11, 2015)

What's Behr?


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

Im closing this thread.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

chrisn said:


> BEHR PREMIUM PLUS ULTRA®
> Paint & Primer in One
> 
> took 3 coats of white to cover WHITE trim:cursing::cursing::cursing:
> ...


Ok read the directions! It says very clearly that if you put on two coats and still get "bleed through" to put on another coat. and again and again and again as needed until you get full coverage. That's what paint AND primer means! (ba-zinga!)


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

epretot said:


> Im closing this thread.


Unfortunately we can't or I would have beat you to it.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

ElTacoPaco said:


> What's Behr?


the opposite of "Valspar" (Sherwin Williams? I'm really confused now!)


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

epretot said:


> Im closing this thread.





PACman said:


> Unfortunately we can't or I would have beat you to it.



Now, now, boys, let's not be too quick to shut something down - no matter how tempting it might be. Some might feel that's an abuse of power. :whistling2:


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

RH said:


> Now, now, boys, let's not be too quick to shut something down - no matter how tempting it might be. Some might feel that's an abuse of power. :whistling2:


Well, I guess somebody might get some learnin out of this post.


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## Timberhill Painting (Mar 8, 2016)

I used Behr to paint a dresser a couple months ago. Clean surface, primed it first, two coats of the top coat. It's been inside a 70 degree apartment since then, and it is still tacky. Not a fan.


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

RH said:


> Now, now, boys, let's not be too quick to shut something down - no matter how tempting it might be. Some might feel that's an abuse of power. :whistling2:


I abuse what limited powers I have all of the time.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Timberhill Painting said:


> I used Behr to paint a dresser a couple months ago. Clean surface, primed it first, two coats of the top coat. It's been inside a 70 degree apartment since then, and it is still tacky. Not a fan.


Yeah I've had tests I've done where it is tacky for ages. Doesn't adhere particularly well after a thirty day cure either, at least their Marquee anyway. But it covers in one coat though! Oh boy, oh boy!

And it still smells like cat pee to me. Although I've never had cat pee that close to my face before so it could be some other animals' pee smell. Maybe iguana?


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## HD painting (May 27, 2013)

Hmmmm seems a strong dislike from most. 
Don't worry I'm not running to Home Depot for paint just yet.
Although ppg opened up stores near me  
I'd like to support the home team. People from Pittsburgh don't normally like Cleveland. I'm not a football guy but hey when in Rome.


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## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

I've told this story on here before, I think. 

The only time in my life that I ever got into a knock-out-drag-out (almost, anyway) fight was with a customer who insisted that I use Behr paint for about 6 doors in her home. Her son-in-law worked for Behr or sold Behr or something like that. I kept insisting on using ANYTHING other than Behr. She won. I used it and it was awful. White over white. Took 3 coats. Finish was labeled as semi but dried to nearly flat and was as rough as sandpaper. She absolutely flipped out. I went back, sanded it, and applied another coat. Same result. 

I vowed then and there to NEVER, EVER touch the stuff again.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

HD painting said:


> Hmmmm seems a strong dislike from most.
> Don't worry I'm not running to Home Depot for paint just yet.
> Although ppg opened up stores near me
> I'd like to support the home team. People from Pittsburgh don't normally like Cleveland. I'm not a football guy but hey when in Rome.


I've worked for both SW and PPG for about the same length of time, and they both screwed me over equally like they do with most of their employees eventually, but if I absolutely had to pick one product line over another I would pretty much go PPG all day long. They put a liiiiittle more into product quality and less into marketing then SW. My opinion after working for and selling each for ten years. For what that's worth.


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## Phinnster (Feb 20, 2013)

I don't understand how jack Paul can say it's so great 
I have heard the ultra trim is ok but I have never wanted to try it 

Anyone on here like it ?


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

I've used Behr a handful of times. I find it a little thick, very spitty when rolled, not very easy to work with, touches up like a55, and is fairly stinky. 

BUT in all occasions the customers were happy with the results.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

Popcorn is in the micro...


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

Someone told me their red covered better than SW or Glidden so I tried it a couple of times. Flat on the walls and Satin on a front door. I always bought the Utra Premium Plus I think, whichever one had the most words in it. It was fine.
I also used to paint some for an elderly woman who bought all her paint at Sears. It was fine, too.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Just because you are the former president of ppg doesn't mean you have hands on experience with the product. I would trust the chemist or some one who actually has tested the products first hand.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Gymschu said:


> I've told this story on here before, I think.
> 
> The only time in my life that I ever got into a knock-out-drag-out (almost, anyway) fight was with a customer who insisted that I use Behr paint for about 6 doors in her home. Her son-in-law worked for Behr or sold Behr or something like that. I kept insisting on using ANYTHING other than Behr. She won. I used it and it was awful. White over white. Took 3 coats. Finish was labeled as semi but dried to nearly flat and was as rough as sandpaper. She absolutely flipped out. I went back, sanded it, and applied another coat. Same result.
> 
> I vowed then and there to NEVER, EVER touch the stuff again.


:notworthy::thumbsup::notworthy:


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Phinnster said:


> I don't understand how jack Paul can say it's so great
> I have heard the ultra trim is ok but I have never wanted to try it
> 
> Anyone on here like it ?


who made him the paint God?


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Gwarel said:


> Someone told me their red covered better than SW or Glidden so I tried it a couple of times. Flat on the walls and Satin on a front door. I always bought the Utra Premium Plus I think, whichever one had the most words in it. It was fine.
> I also used to paint some for an elderly woman who bought all her paint at Sears. It was fine, too.


Stick to paper hanging:whistling2:


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Phinnster said:


> I don't understand how jack Paul can say it's so great
> I have heard the ultra trim is ok but I have never wanted to try it
> 
> Anyone on here like it ?


uh...$$$$$$$


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

lilpaintchic said:


> Popcorn is in the micro...


You do know that prepackaged microwave popcorn is bad for you don't you? :whistling2:


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Zoomer said:


> Just because you are the former president of ppg doesn't mean you have hands on experience with the product. I would trust the chemist or some one who actually has tested the products first hand.


Yup. Harvard doesn't graduate a bunch of paint experts. The guy has never painted anything in his life. He has people to hire people to do stuff like that.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

chrisn said:


> who made him the paint God?


He did. He can make videos so he is the best. Him and that Idaho snowboarder dude.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

PACman said:


> You do know that prepackaged microwave popcorn is bad for you don't you? :whistling2:


There's good, better and....crunch, crunch,crunch...


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## GrandCitiesPainter (Oct 26, 2015)

First time user of behr ultra, today. 

Very thick, bit of sags (oil base did this, so it's no problem), easy to dry back roll and fix, odor was a bit stronger than BM and SW, did drag a bit, but fixed by adding 2 oz., of water per gallon, however, covered beautifully. Would I use again? absolutely. :thumbsup:

Here are some before and after photos / two coats.


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

chrisn said:


> Stick to paper hanging:whistling2:


I wish I could. A man's gotta eat.......


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Gwarel said:


> I wish I could. A man's gotta eat.......


Tell me about it


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

GrandCitiesPainter said:


> First time user of behr ultra, today.
> 
> Very thick, bit of sags (oil base did this, so it's no problem), easy to dry back roll and fix, odor was a bit stronger than BM and SW, did drag a bit, but fixed by adding 2 oz., of water per gallon, however, covered beautifully. Would I use again? absolutely. :thumbsup:
> 
> Here are some before and after photos / two coats.


So what I'm seeing is light purple over purple. Wow that's impressive.


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## stl911 (Jul 16, 2014)

i use behr few times on walls, the coverage is decent. much better than SW.


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## GrandCitiesPainter (Oct 26, 2015)

PACman said:


> So what I'm seeing is light purple over purple. Wow that's impressive.


Not really, take a closer look! 
1 coat over satin.


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## GrandCitiesPainter (Oct 26, 2015)

Extreme color change. Yellow behr over a light, blueish / green (oil base), 2 coats. This paint is amazing. Wow! :thumbup:

Painters across the globe, you have to try this wonderful product. Love it.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

See Pac, that's that drag you seem to dislike so much 

I think it's rather clever to engineer characteristics that increase film build. Especially since so few applicators pay attention to such details. As is suggested by the removal of mil specs from some data sheets you observed. 

It may be a dumbing down of the trade. Perhaps that's what's needed in the age of the DIY, and the self taught tradesman. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

GrandCitiesPainter said:


> Extreme color change. Yellow behr over a light, blueish / green (oil base), 2 coats. This paint is amazing. Wow! :thumbup:
> 
> Painters across the globe, you have to try this wonderful product. Love it.


Remember this post when that "yellow behr" is coming off in sheets.:yes:


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

I had the luxury of working with that fine product today repainting a bathroom.ho already had it. It smells like cat piss and I still have a headache...delightful product. I can hardly wait to use it again. I'm a firm believer that one should use enamel in every surface, every time. And since it's a paint and primer in one, it cuts my work in half. Primer is now obsolete and a complete waste of time and money. I really don't know why anyone would use primer when this budget friendly option is so easy to get. It's rated #1 for good reason for sure! I think it's my new favorite.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

GrandCitiesPainter said:


> Extreme color change. Yellow behr over a light, blueish / green (oil base), 2 coats. This paint is amazing. Wow! :thumbup:
> 
> Painters across the globe, you have to try this wonderful product. Love it.


another latex over oil nightmare


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

lilpaintchic said:


> I had the luxury of working with that fine product today repainting a bathroom.ho already had it. It smells like cat piss and I still have a headache...delightful product. I can hardly wait to use it again. I'm a firm believer that one should use enamel in every surface, every time. And since it's a paint and primer in one, it cuts my work in half. Primer is now obsolete and a complete waste of time and money. I really don't know why anyone would use primer when this budget friendly option is so easy to get. It's rated #1 for good reason for sure! I think it's my new favorite.


:thumbsup::yes:


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Jmayspaint said:


> See Pac, that's that drag you seem to dislike so much
> 
> I think it's rather clever to engineer characteristics that increase film build. Especially since so few applicators pay attention to such details. As is suggested by the removal of mil specs from some data sheets you observed.
> 
> ...


Yeah could be. After all you can buy pre-made shine at the liquor store now.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

lilpaintchic said:


> I had the luxury of working with that fine product today repainting a bathroom.ho already had it. It smells like cat piss and I still have a headache...delightful product. I can hardly wait to use it again. I'm a firm believer that one should use enamel in every surface, every time. And since it's a paint and primer in one, it cuts my work in half. Primer is now obsolete and a complete waste of time and money. I really don't know why anyone would use primer when this budget friendly option is so easy to get. It's rated #1 for good reason for sure! I think it's my new favorite.


Damn I was beginning to think it was something on my beard or something! Every time I open a Behr can.....BAM! It's like my aunts house all over again. 30 frickin' cats.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

chrisn said:


> :thumbsup::yes:


My meter goes to 11.


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## GrandCitiesPainter (Oct 26, 2015)

slinger58 said:


> Remember this post when that "yellow behr" is coming off in sheets.:yes:


Doubt it. You must be a greenhorn? 

Painter 101 - thoroughly degloss, glosses surfaces prior to painting.
How to: thoroughly sand with 120 grit sand paper, then wash with TSP and allow to dry. 

Hope this info helps, Singer.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

GrandCitiesPainter said:


> Doubt it. You must be a greenhorn?
> 
> Painter 101 - thoroughly degloss, glosses surfaces prior to painting.
> How to: thoroughly sand with 120 grit sand paper, then wash with TSP and allow to dry.
> ...


 
_Remember this post when that "yellow behr" is coming off in sheets.:yes:_

This would still apply


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

GrandCitiesPainter said:


> Doubt it. *You must be a greenhorn? *
> 
> Painter 101 - thoroughly degloss, glosses surfaces prior to painting.
> How to: thoroughly sand with 120 grit sand paper, then wash with TSP and allow to dry.
> ...


You just made Slinger feel young again. Maybe a little pissed off, but young!!!


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

GrandCitiesPainter said:


> Doubt it. You must be a greenhorn? Painter 101 - thoroughly degloss, glosses surfaces prior to painting. How to: thoroughly sand with 120 grit sand paper, then wash with TSP and allow to dry. Hope this info helps, Singer.


Lol. I used to be green, now I've faded into a yellowhorn.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

GrandCitiesPainter said:


> Doubt it. You must be a greenhorn?
> 
> Painter 101 - thoroughly degloss, glosses surfaces prior to painting.
> How to: thoroughly sand with 120 grit sand paper, then wash with TSP and allow to dry.
> ...


Let get real here. How many of us are actually doing all that on walls? I krud kutter dirty looking spots but there's no way I'm gonna do a full wash down with tsp for no reason. And guess what I'm not sanding previously painted satin walls either. Why? Because it's a waste of time. If the paint your using can't handle sticking to a satin surface it's time to use better paint.


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## fredo (Nov 20, 2011)

We've used it in the past. Premium Plus Interior covers well and lays down nicely, good uniform color...house wives LOVE it. Terrible price points for the contractor IMO.

Exterior...not so much. ...color bleed, color fade, sheen fade. We don't recommend it, won't buy it, and discourage customers from using it. No warranty implied on Behr exterior....and that goes for stain as well.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Let get real here. How many of us are actually doing all that on walls? I krud kutter dirty looking spots but there's no way I'm gonna do a full wash down with tsp for no reason. Any guess what I'm not sanding previously painted satin walls either. Why? Because it's a waste of time. If the paint your using can't handle sticking to a satin surface it's time to use better paint.


Right...for the amount of time wasted on that task (and the mess) I could just prime it and move forward with 100% confidence in every catagory..ime, latex over oil always gets primed. I don't care what new fangled fancy crap they put on the label. I've cleaned up so many miles of trim and other failed paint (made good $ though) that it's just easier to prime in my book. I'm a painter. Not a freaking wall washer...


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

lilpaintchic said:


> Right...for the amount of time wasted on that task (and the mess) I could just prime it and move forward with 100% confidence in every catagory..ime, latex over oil always gets primed. I don't care what new fangled fancy crap they put on the label. I've cleaned up so many miles of trim and other failed paint (made good $ though) that it's just easier to prime in my book. I'm a painter. Not a freaking wall washer...


I'm with you 100% :yes:

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

lilpaintchic said:


> Right...for the amount of time wasted on that task (and the mess) I could just prime it and move forward with 100% confidence in every catagory..ime, latex over oil always gets primed. I don't care what new fangled fancy crap they put on the label. I've cleaned up so many miles of trim and other failed paint (made good $ though) that it's just easier to prime in my book. I'm a painter. Not a freaking wall washer...


exactly:thumbsup:


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

SemiproJohn said:


> You just made Slinger feel young again. Maybe a little pissed off, but young!!!


You do know that you should rinse TSP off right? If not just keep up the good work so we will sell more paint.


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## GrandCitiesPainter (Oct 26, 2015)

PACman said:


> You do know that you should rinse TSP off right? If not just keep up the good work so we will sell more paint.


Are we in the DIY forum or Pro Painters? Do I need to spell out the basics?
Isn't rinsing common sense? Sheeeze


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

GrandCitiesPainter said:


> Are we in the DIY forum or Pro Painters? Do I need to spell out the basics?
> Isn't rinsing common sense? Sheeeze


Your little spec says wash with TSP and let dry. Just wanted to clarify since Behr peels so easily. Wanted to make sure we were all clear.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

PACman said:


> Your little spec says wash with TSP and let dry. Just wanted to clarify since Behr peels so easily. Wanted to make sure we were all clear.


Even if you do rinse there is a good chance of leaving a residue. 

In 12 years of painting in almost every facet I've never once washed a painted an interior wall to be repainted (after wall coverings excluded of course)


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

journeymanPainter said:


> Even if you do rinse there is a good chance of leaving a residue.
> 
> In 12 years of painting in almost every facet I've never once washed a painted an interior wall to be repainted (after wall coverings excluded of course)


As long as they're using EB in whatever food is being thrown on the wall why would you?


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## GrandCitiesPainter (Oct 26, 2015)

journeymanPainter said:


> Even if you do rinse there is a good chance of leaving a residue.


Even if you rinse the shampoo from your hair faithfully (according to my hairdresser wify), there is a chance of clogging your pores and causing hair loss. :whistling2:

I'm trying to figure out which paint talk member gets the negative painter award?  Never mind. :yes:


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## GrandCitiesPainter (Oct 26, 2015)

I have found that behr paint is like putting, Aura, Emerald, PPG Manor Hall, Prat & Lambert's best and a gold brick into a blender and mixing thoroughly. Amazing blend. 

Come on, it's a joke - laughing all the way to the bank thou. :jester:


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

I hear that metro paint is pretty good. If you can get past the smell of it...lol it really IS all of those and everything else you can think of all blended, strained, and sold for $35 a 5 or something like that. Recycled paint.lol


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

GrandCitiesPainter said:


> I have found that behr paint is like putting, Aura, Emerald, PPG Manor Hall, Prat & Lambert's best and a gold brick into a blender and mixing thoroughly. Amazing blend.
> 
> Come on, it's a joke - laughing all the way to the bank thou. :jester:


And yet you claim you've only used it once or twice. Very noteworthy


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

journeymanPainter said:


> And yet you claim you've only used it once or twice. Very noteworthy


But they were big jobs! One was almost an entire 5 gallon bucket!


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

I just used Behr I100 line. Medium darkish gray color over lousy primed new wall. It covered great one coat.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

cdpainting said:


> I just used Behr I100 line. Medium darkish gray color over lousy primed new wall. It covered great one coat.


Gray huh? Wow. medium dark gray over.....light grey. Again, quite impressed. (Ba-Zinga!)


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

No more Ba-zinga. You're wearing it out.

Please Mods. Put a stop to this.


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## GrandCitiesPainter (Oct 26, 2015)

journeymanPainter said:


> And yet you claim you've only used it once or twice. Very noteworthy


Whatever that means, I have no idea.

Actually, I used it last week in about 6 rooms. All colors tutti frutti. Yellow, orange, purple and green. And the behr paint looked like a million bucks. Highly recommend. :thumbup:


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## GrandCitiesPainter (Oct 26, 2015)

PACman said:


> Gray huh? Wow. medium dark gray over.....light grey. Again, quite impressed. (Ba-Zinga!)


You must have a Home Depot across the street from your store taking your customers. I fully understand now.


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## GrandCitiesPainter (Oct 26, 2015)

lilpaintchic said:


> If you can get past the smell of it...lol


Guess you've never worked with oil base paints, kilz, coverstain, stains, polyurethane, 2 part epoxy, etc? if so, behr is a walk in the park.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

Huh? Dude, I wasn't going for the pissing match with ya. Sorry if i ruffled your feathers. Honestly, as has been stated many times in many other posts, the thing I hate most about behr is the hd experience and the smell. The product isn't my favorite but one could do worse. 
However, the post you quoted was directly related to metro paint. A recycled product (from the local dumps in portland, or) that smells like mold.... 

Never worked with any of the products you mentioned though...it's only my first day on the job. I'm new. Still trying to figure out how to load the handmasker...


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

GrandCitiesPainter said:


> Guess you've never worked with oil base paints, kilz, coverstain, stains, polyurethane, 2 part epoxy, etc? if so, behr is a walk in the park.


Behr, HP2000 (from general paint), and Ecologic(from Cloverdale) are the worst smelling acrylic I've ever worked with. Worse than coverstain, or killz. 

Lacquers and epoxies are a different animal all together

Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

http://www.oregonmetro.gov/tools-living/healthy-home/metropaint


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Behr still sucks


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

epretot said:


> No more Ba-zinga. You're wearing it out.
> 
> Please Mods. Put a stop to this.


Hey it's just a code word to let people know I'm being sarcastic and having a little fun with them. People have been taking me WAY too seriously.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

GrandCitiesPainter said:


> You must have a Home Depot across the street from your store taking your customers. I fully understand now.


No not really. Home Depot has become a great source of customers for me. Just like the people that hire painters that do crappy jobs and hire a good painter to fix it. I fix it.

"There's nothing better in retail then having a bad competitor."


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

lilpaintchic said:


> Huh? Dude, I wasn't going for the pissing match with ya. Sorry if i ruffled your feathers. Honestly, as has been stated many times in many other posts, the thing I hate most about behr is the hd experience and the smell. The product isn't my favorite but one could do worse.
> However, the post you quoted was directly related to metro paint. A recycled product (from the local dumps in portland, or) that smells like mold....
> 
> Never worked with any of the products you mentioned though...it's only my first day on the job. I'm new. Still trying to figure out how to load the handmasker...


Sticky side out.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

I thought the ooozing Behr love stuff moved over to the PT Facebook page.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

PACman said:


> I thought the ooozing Behr love stuff moved over to the PT Facebook page.


What PT Facebook page?


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

journeymanPainter said:


> What PT Facebook page?


Lol, I doubt most on here are aware but virtually every (paint related) thread started on here is linked onto the FB page. No, they don't post up the threads where we're talking about gravy or dog pee but given the directions some of our paint related threads end up in, anything's possible.


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## Phinnster (Feb 20, 2013)

Can we stop this thread
Please ?


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Phinnster said:


> Can we stop this thread
> Please ?


There's no stopping this train son, until the end of the line.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Count me out.


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## Toolnut (Nov 23, 2012)

One of the best things about the Behr experience is standing at the counter while grandma takes an hour to decide between Antique white and Navajo white.


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

The 2 biggest values to me when buying paint is

Quality & Service

as far as HD & Behr it's just not there

kinda of like shopping at the flea market or garage sales for your tools

sure it's a "paint brush" but ....

i would rather pay pacman $2 a gal more for the service & quality than shop at a box store

jmo


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

This thread has taken up way to much cloud space.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

Toolnut said:


> One of the best things about the Behr experience is standing at the counter while grandma takes an hour to decide between Antique white and Navajo white.


Or when you hear one of the employees tell someone something that is completely wrong or untrue. Not that they are purposefully lying, THEY JUST DON'T KNOW


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Repaint Florida said:


> The 2 biggest values to me when buying paint is
> 
> Quality & Service
> 
> ...


Hey thanks for the shout out! And believe it or not I can beat any Behr price with a BETTER quality paint.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

journeymanPainter said:


> Or when you hear one of the employees tell someone something that is completely wrong or untrue. Not that they are purposefully lying, THEY JUST DON'T KNOW


Like the wall size thing I overheard last year. They didn't have a clue what wall size was and told an older gentleman over and over that they needed to know the measurements of the wall before they could tell him what the size was.

Poor guy just wanted to hang some wallpaper.


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## HD painting (May 27, 2013)

I apologize for instigating this thread...
Left work-I'm sitting at the dmv-wish I was back at work painting trim with cashmere. Seems to flow well with a splash of water.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

These Behr threads are like trying to get two 5 year olds to go to sleep.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

PACman said:


> Like the wall size thing I overheard last year. They didn't have a clue what wall size was and told an older gentleman over and over that they needed to know the measurements of the wall before they could tell him what the size was.
> 
> Poor guy just wanted to hang some wallpaper.


That's halarious...lol


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

lilpaintchic said:


> That's halarious...lol


Honest to god. And it wasn't even one of the department newbies. The department manager was standing right there and didn't know.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

PACman said:


> These Behr threads are like trying to get two 5 year olds to go to sleep.


That's easy for me


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

PACman said:


> Hey thanks for the shout out! And believe it or not I can beat any Behr price with a BETTER quality paint.


I had to get 2 pails of Behrs weather proofing all in one wood finish today. Over $500. I can get a high quality semi transparent oil stain for less


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## GrandCitiesPainter (Oct 26, 2015)

lilpaintchic said:


> Huh? Dude, I wasn't going for the pissing match with ya. Sorry if i ruffled your feathers. Honestly, as has been stated many times in many other posts, the thing I hate most about behr is the hd experience and the smell.


You didn't ruffle my feathers and I am not looking for a pissing match either. You keep talking about the smell of a latex low VOC paint. I only asked you if you ever used oils base paint products? 

Sorry, I am not a painter of the new millennium. You know, odorless paints? I am from the era of only hack painters used latex paints on woodwork and doors. Oil base was what the pros used. There were many of days I went home after a day with oil and I could literally taste the paint for hours. My lungs hurt at times. Glad they did away with that stuff. 

I remember one summer, I worked with 2 part epoxy outside for two months. At the end of the summer, my sinuses were so sore that I went to the doctor. So when I hear painters claiming that behr, a latex low VOC paint smells, I can only laugh.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

journeymanPainter said:


> I had to get 2 pails of Behrs weather proofing all in one wood finish today. Over $500. I can get a high quality semi transparent oil stain for less


dang have I got some deals for you! I could have sold you the Storm System product for $300. And it actually lasts a couple of years.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

GrandCitiesPainter said:


> You didn't ruffle my feathers and I am not looking for a pissing match either. You keep talking about the smell of a latex low VOC paint. I only asked you if you ever used oils base paint products?
> 
> Sorry, I am not a painter of the new millennium. You know, odorless paints? I am from the era of only hack painters used latex paints on woodwork and doors. Oil base was what the pros used. There were many of days I went home after a day with oil and I could literally taste the paint for hours. My lungs hurt at times. Glad they did away with that stuff.
> 
> I remember one summer, I worked with 2 part epoxy outside for two months. At the end of the summer, my sinuses were so sore that I went to the doctor. So when I hear painters claiming that behr, a latex low VOC paint smells, I can only laugh.


It does smell. But you are probably not able to smell so well anymore after what you have had to inhale in the past. Behr has a pretty high ammonia odor to many people, myself included. I have had customers that had to leave my store because I had been painting a bathroom with Marquee. They didn't even know I was painting anything. They were just overwhelmed by the ammonia smell.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

GrandCitiesPainter said:


> You didn't ruffle my feathers and I am not looking for a pissing match either. You keep talking about the smell of a latex low VOC paint. I only asked you if you ever used oils base paint products?
> 
> Sorry, I am not a painter of the new millennium. You know, odorless paints? I am from the era of only hack painters used latex paints on woodwork and doors. Oil base was what the pros used. There were many of days I went home after a day with oil and I could literally taste the paint for hours. My lungs hurt at times. Glad they did away with that stuff.
> 
> I remember one summer, I worked with 2 part epoxy outside for two months. At the end of the summer, my sinuses were so sore that I went to the doctor. So when I hear painters claiming that behr, a latex low VOC paint smells, I can only laugh.


Oh, and nice selfie!


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

PACman said:


> Like the wall size thing I overheard last year. They didn't have a clue what wall size was and told an older gentleman over and over that they needed to know the measurements of the wall before they could tell him what the size was.
> 
> Poor guy just wanted to hang some wallpaper.


There are not many people that actually know what it is. In fact the stupid term should never be used. It's obsolete.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

chrisn said:


> There are not many people that actually know what it is. In fact the stupid term should never be used. It's obsolete.


Oh I forgot! All the best wallpaper is pre-sized now! And then there is the "paint and primer and sealer and wall sizing in one" paint Behr's coming out with next week!


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

chrisn said:


> There are not many people that actually know what it is. In fact the stupid term should never be used. It's obsolete.


I'm not one of those people. Though I've heard the term used for decades, I've never really known what it is.:blink:


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Didn't sizing have something to do with treating walls with a paste mixture?


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

CApainter said:


> Didn't sizing have something to do with treating walls with a paste mixture?


I always thought it was when the paperhanger looked at the room to be hung, hitched his pants up and said "It'll be tree-fiddy".


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

Dang lag again...


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

GrandCitiesPainter said:


> You didn't ruffle my feathers and I am not looking for a pissing match either. You keep talking about the smell of a latex low VOC paint. I only asked you if you ever used oils base paint products?
> 
> Sorry, I am not a painter of the new millennium. You know, odorless paints? I am from the era of only hack painters used latex paints on woodwork and doors. Oil base was what the pros used. There were many of days I went home after a day with oil and I could literally taste the paint for hours. My lungs hurt at times. Glad they did away with that stuff.
> 
> I remember one summer, I worked with 2 part epoxy outside for two months. At the end of the summer, my sinuses were so sore that I went to the doctor. So when I hear painters claiming that behr, a latex low VOC paint smells, I can only laugh.


Voc's have absolutely nothing to do with how a product smells...


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

CApainter said:


> Didn't sizing have something to do with treating walls with a paste mixture?


Exactly. Back in the old days(some of us remember them), when all the walls were real plaster, paper hangers "sealed" the plaster first with thinned out paste. That was called "sizing". Today all walls should be primed with a wall covering primer first. If everybody did that, they would be no problems with stripping paper. It all stems from NOT priming the walls first.:yes:


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

chrisn said:


> Exactly. Back in the old days(some of us remember them), when all the walls were real plaster, paper hangers "sealed" the plaster first with thinned out paste. That was called "sizing". Today all walls should be primed with a wall covering primer first. If everybody did that, they would be no problems with stripping paper. It all stems from NOT priming the walls first.:yes:


We always called it sizing. Never knew why cause we were always using wallcovering primer. Thanks


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

I guess wall size has gone the way of adhesium.


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## Honestpainting (Feb 6, 2016)

It seems like everyone who uses Behr talks about how much cheaper it is than the competition.

2 problems with that argument:

1) Speedhide, Super Hide and Sherscrub (or Promar 200) are faster, easier, hide better on average in all colors and are cheaper than the entire Behr line except the I100 line. 

2) Labor costs much more than paint. Do I need to say more? Yes Labor>Paint. So even if Behr was half the price I wouldn't use it because it costs me too much time. Between poor/slow customer service to poor application qualities, it ends up costing me much, much more. Why is this concept so difficult for some people to understand?


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## loaded brush (Dec 27, 2007)

chrisn said:


> Exactly. Back in the old days(some of us remember them), when all the walls were real plaster, paper hangers "sealed" the plaster first with thinned out paste. That was called "sizing". Today all walls should be primed with a wall covering primer first. If everybody did that, they would be no problems with stripping paper. It all stems from NOT priming the walls first.:yes:


Priming before hanging does not ensure "no problems with stripping paper". The type of paper plays a big role on whether or not it will remove with ease or difficultly. Priming before installing paper actually aides more with the hanging of the paper than is does for removal.


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## GrandCitiesPainter (Oct 26, 2015)

Honestpainting said:


> It seems like everyone who uses Behr talks about how much cheaper it is than the competition.
> 
> 2 problems with that argument:
> 
> ...


*Can you backup your assertion with statistics, or should one take your word for it?*


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

GrandCitiesPainter said:


> *Can you backup your assertion with statistics, or should one take your word for it?*


Well a gallon of Behr marquee is $31 + taxes (13%+ Eco fee) 
A gallon of diamond from dulux costs me $35 all in (diamond is the equivalent to Aura)
I get great durability with diamond, it touches up nicely, it doesn't leave a heavy texture, there is little to no off putting smell, and it's washable.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

loaded brush said:


> Priming before hanging does not ensure "no problems with stripping paper". The type of paper plays a big role on whether or not it will remove with ease or difficultly. Priming before installing paper actually aides more with the hanging of the paper than is does for removal.


I have never had any difficulty in removal of any type paper( except the dreaded foil) with PROPERLY primed walls. I have removed many, many, miles of paper.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Honestpainting said:


> It seems like everyone who uses Behr talks about how much cheaper it is than the competition.
> 
> 2 problems with that argument:
> 
> ...


Appreciate your honesty.  Not all paints are true to the hue.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Honestpainting said:


> It seems like everyone who uses Behr talks about how much cheaper it is than the competition.
> 
> 2 problems with that argument:
> 
> ...


Preach bother! The price of paint is such a small portion of any paint job and can cause a huge loss of labor. I have done the algebra on PT a couple of times before. The use of a product that has bad application properties can cost a painter as much as 25% of the labor used to do a job. Unless you are being paid hourly, you are losing profit like you are pouring it down the drain. I have seen what happens when a painter upgrade his paint and can cut a room in half the time then he could with his lesser paint. Over a period of a year the labor savings can actually be enough to buy a new Corvette for a company that has 5 painters! The problem is that those 5 hourly painters DON'T CARE ABOUT SAVING LABOR, SO THEY WILL WANT TO KEEP USING THE PAINT THAT TAKES LONGER TO APPLY! This is something that the owners of painting companies, the people who have taken the risk with their own money, need to be cognizant of!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

journeymanPainter said:


> Well a gallon of Behr marquee is $31 + taxes (13%+ Eco fee)
> A gallon of diamond from dulux costs me $35 all in (diamond is the equivalent to Aura)
> I get great durability with diamond, it touches up nicely, it doesn't leave a heavy texture, there is little to no off putting smell, and it's washable.


Does the Diamond drag like an mf'er like the Marquee does? If it doesn't, you are making much more money in labor savings using the Diamond then the $4 price difference. And some food for thought. When a customer insists that you use Marquee, and you know that you will loose money in labor using it, what do you do? Upcharge the labor or refuse the job unless you can use a paint that you can make money with? 

I could be selling some very cheap a55 paint, but I refuse to do it because I know from experience that selling it is fraught with labor loss, mistints, and general customer dissatisfaction. What do you all do? Take the labor hit or walk away?


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

were's D'arch when you need him!

And wall size was originally used to make sure the surface was of a uniform porosity to aide in the application of the wallpaper. It CAN aide in the removal of the wallpaper, but that was not it's primary purpose.


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## Honestpainting (Feb 6, 2016)

You said it better than me!

Look, we can use any paint we want right? I use inexpensive paints at times for certain situations and clients. There's nothing wrong with that. But I'm in this business to make as much money in as little time as possible and to make clients happy and keep work coming in. I have found in my experience (yes this is my opinion) better paint = more profit in the end. Not only do I make more money because I've saved lots and lots of labor, but the customer loves me for using good paint because it looks better and I'm done quicker; and there's just another reason for them to recommend me to somebody else.

Painting is a tough business. I try not making it harder on myself by using inferior paint


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

PACman said:


> Does the Diamond drag like an mf'er like the Marquee does? If it doesn't, you are making much more money in labor savings using the Diamond then the $4 price difference. And some food for thought. When a customer insists that you use Marquee, and you know that you will loose money in labor using it, what do you do? Upcharge the labor or refuse the job unless you can use a paint that you can make money with?
> 
> I could be selling some very cheap a55 paint, but I refuse to do it because I know from experience that selling it is fraught with labor loss, mistints, and general customer dissatisfaction. What do you all do? Take the labor hit or walk away?


Does it drag? Not one bit. It sometimes covers in one coat. 
If a customer asks me to use a paint not from dulux then I don't warranty my work. I will sometimes only do it on T&M.


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## Honestpainting (Feb 6, 2016)

PACman said:


> Does the Diamond drag like an mf'er like the Marquee does? If it doesn't, you are making much more money in labor savings using the Diamond then the $4 price difference. And some food for thought. When a customer insists that you use Marquee, and you know that you will loose money in labor using it, what do you do? Upcharge the labor or refuse the job unless you can use a paint that you can make money with?
> 
> I could be selling some very cheap a55 paint, but I refuse to do it because I know from experience that selling it is fraught with labor loss, mistints, and general customer dissatisfaction. What do you all do? Take the labor hit or walk away?


I have gone down that rabbit hole with certain customers trying to get me to use certain paints or products. I've also been burned too many times in labor or having to fix the problems a product caused. I have gotten really, really, really good at being understanding with them, but very, very firm that I only use products I trust and am comfortable with. You just have to sell it to them. I have yet to lose a job because of it, and it's been at least 3 years since I've had the displeasure of using hell in a can! 
:thumbsup:


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Honestpainting said:


> You said it better than me!
> 
> Look, we can use any paint we want right? I use inexpensive paints at times for certain situations and clients. There's nothing wrong with that. But I'm in this business to make as much money in as little time as possible and to make clients happy and keep work coming in. I have found in my experience (yes this is my opinion) better paint = more profit in the end. Not only do I make more money because I've saved lots and lots of labor, but the customer loves me for using good paint because it looks better and I'm done quicker; and there's just another reason for them to recommend me to somebody else.
> 
> Painting is a tough business. I try not making it harder on myself by using inferior paint


And every painter I have ever known that had a nice house, a caddy for the wife, and a new van every other year always used the best paint they could get in every situation, even taking it upon themselves to take the hit and upgrade the paint that was spec'd buy paying the difference.


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## Honestpainting (Feb 6, 2016)

PACman said:


> And every painter I have ever known that had a nice house, a caddy for the wife, and a new van every other year always used the best paint they could get in every situation, even taking it upon themselves to take the hit and upgrade the paint that was spec'd buy paying the difference.


I agree with you 110% PACman.

I wanted to follow up on my previous comment about using inexpensive paint. There is only one situation I use it for: insurance work where I am not paid to repaint every wall in an area, only the damaged surfaces "corner to corner" and I have to match the color and sheen of the existing paint as close as possible. Sometimes inexpensive paints match the existing paint better in that situation and all I'm paid to do is return the surface to the original condition.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

PACman said:


> were's D'arch when you need him!
> 
> And wall size was originally used to make sure the surface was of a uniform porosity to aide in the application of the wallpaper. It CAN aide in the removal of the wallpaper, but that was not it's primary purpose.


Why is he needed?


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

I have only used Marque on t&m jobs, where customer supplied the paint. When a customer asks what products I use its SW, DE, or BM. I tell them I don't use a box store for paint. I control the specification of material, makes the job easy as I can eliminate the potential pitfalls of a bad product spec.

And the marquee took me twice as long to paint as my go to products. One coat did not look that great, flashed at any cut to roll, but the hide was great.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

chrisn said:


> Why is he needed?


To bust everyone's anti-wall size rhetoric! And to recommend whiskys to me.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

MikeCalifornia said:


> I have only used Marque on t&m jobs, where customer supplied the paint. When a customer asks what products I use its SW, DE, or BM. I tell them I don't use a box store for paint. I control the specification of material, makes the job easy as I can eliminate the potential pitfalls of a bad product spec.
> 
> And the marquee took me twice as long to paint as my go to products. One coat did not look that great, flashed at any cut to roll, but the hide was great.


This is exactly my findings about Marquee. It's pretty much made to cover well and that's about it that distinguishes it from other box store paints.


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## Honestpainting (Feb 6, 2016)

PACman said:


> This is exactly my findings about Marquee. It's pretty much made to cover well and that's about it that distinguishes it from other box store paints.


But the hide seems very dependent on millage, more so than other quality paints. Then when you put it on thick, you have runs and sags everywhere. Not to mention you use about 50% more product so there goes your product savings! :banghead:


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Honestpainting said:


> But the hide seems very dependent on millage, more so than other quality paints. Then when you put it on thick, you have runs and sags everywhere. Not to mention you use about 50% more product so there goes your product savings! :banghead:


Oh yeah there's that! Spec sheet says something like 6.5-8 mils wet. Which is actually just the same as two coats of "normal" paint. Trying to get it applied that thick is like trying to milk a bull.

But you'll never see that on a Home Depot commercial!


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

I am familiar with the smells of the Behr Premium Plus, Ultra and Marquee. None of them bother my nose. Yesterday I was touching up a couple of square feet in a basement stairwell. The customer is selling her home and has had a number of areas fully painted, but the stairwell did not need that, just touch up. In her basement I found a can of Behr Premium Plus Ultra in good condition that matched the stairwell color with old packaging, so it must have been at least 5 years old or more. When I was cutting in the stairs I had my nose right near the cut bucket and could really smell the strong ammonia odor! I haven't smelled that odor in years and certainly not from the current batch of Behr paints.

futtyos


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## Honestpainting (Feb 6, 2016)

futtyos said:


> I am familiar with the smells of the Behr Premium Plus, Ultra and Marquee. None of them bother my nose. Yesterday I was touching up a couple of square feet in a basement stairwell. The customer is selling her home and has had a number of areas fully painted, but the stairwell did not need that, just touch up. In her basement I found a can of Behr Premium Plus Ultra in good condition that matched the stairwell color with old packaging, so it must have been at least 5 years old or more. When I was cutting in the stairs I had my nose right near the cut bucket and could really smell the strong ammonia odor! I haven't smelled that odor in years and certainly not from the current batch of Behr paints.
> 
> futtyos


Smell reminds me of Sherwin-Williams DTM latex, which happens to be junk too, lol.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Honestpainting said:


> Smell reminds me of Sherwin-Williams DTM latex, which happens to be junk too, lol.


And oddly, Pratt & Lambert's DTM! Which is of dubious quality as well.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

PACman said:


> To bust everyone's anti-wall size rhetoric! And to recommend whiskys to me.[/QUOTE]
> 
> Why would you need more than Jack Black?:blink:


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

chrisn said:


> PACman said:
> 
> 
> > To bust everyone's anti-wall size rhetoric! And to recommend whiskys to me.[/QUOTE]
> ...


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## goga (Aug 6, 2015)

I like Behr, if I roll just a hair thicker than I feel like it, it gives me a nice breath in and deep exhale.. go back, roll those runs and sags, used it only ones by a customer provision, had no choice, it's i good thing to like things when they happen only once.. hopefully. And it was Marque.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*working with an unfamiliar paint*



goga said:


> I like Behr, if I roll just a hair thicker than I feel like it, it gives me a nice breath in and deep exhale.. go back, roll those runs and sags, used it only ones by a customer provision, had no choice, it's i good thing to like things when they happen only once.. hopefully. And it was Marque.


Goga, do you think that maybe you are applying the Marquee too thickly, considering that you have only used it once and might not have been aware of how thick or thin to apply it? Just asking. I have read where some members have commented that they had problems applying Aura the first time.

futtyos


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

goga said:


> I like Behr, if I roll just a hair thicker than I feel like it, it gives me a nice breath in and deep exhale.. go back, roll those runs and sags, used it only ones by a customer provision, had no choice, it's i good thing to like things when they happen only once.. hopefully. And it was Marque.


Are you sure it was sagging and it wasn't some kind of LSD like hallucination brought on by an ammonia overdose?


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## goga (Aug 6, 2015)

futtyos said:


> Goga, do you think that maybe you are applying the Marquee too thickly, considering that you have only used it once and might not have been aware of how thick or thin to apply it? Just asking. I have read where some members have commented that they had problems applying Aura the first time.
> 
> futtyos


Last fall I've "applied" over 2000 gallons of different type of paint on different surfaces by different tools, I'm guessing I have an idea how paint is applied and how thick or thin it should go on and off.

PS: after one wall I've adjusted to the Behr and had an idea how to roll it on in order for it to stick and stay, just junk, but I'd use it if there was nothing else on Earth.


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## goga (Aug 6, 2015)

PACman said:


> Are you sure it was sagging and it wasn't some kind of LSD like hallucination brought on by an ammonia overdose?


It would be nice if you'd not judge ppl based on your own experience.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

goga said:


> It would be nice if you'd not judge ppl based on your own experience.


The cats man! All the CATS!


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