# Interior acrylic primer that will kill stains?



## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

Does anyone know of such a product for interiors? I always used alkyd coverstain or lacquer undercoater for bonding and stain killing in one step.

I cant use solvents any more. I have tried zinsser123 acrylic with mixed results. Almost always there is fly/insect crap that bleeds through it.

I mainly need it for stain killing not bonding.

There is a new zinsser acrylic primer that apparantly is only sold in southern california, the website says it totally kills all stains, has anyone tried this?

What about shellacs with just regular grain alcohol or some other kind of non toxic alcohol does anyone have experience with this?


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

I am pretty impressed with Grippers ability to kill stains - I killed knot bleed on wall panelling that I primed with Gripper. It took two additional touchups - but hey it is a latex product - a million touchups with most latex primers won't kill a knot.


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

plainpainter said:


> I am pretty impressed with Grippers ability to kill stains


How does it level out when sprayed, or brushed? I know this is asking kind of a lot, but I need it to flow out like oil! :whistling2:

I have products that I like for reducing acrylic paint, but when I reduce the primers I have tried it tends to facilitate stains transfering through the finish. So I have found acrylic primers stain kill best without reduction.

Better yet, do you know of an acrylic primer that will form itself into a paint crew, then prime itself while killing stains and flowing out like oil, then spray out the finish coats then cut and roll the walls, then rematerialize back into the can before the homeowner walks in?


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## MDRocket (Feb 3, 2009)

I havnt had much luck with any acrylic stain blockers myself. Most of them as you say allways leave something behind. KILZ makes a primer that may work for ya,Its called KILZ premium. Its been a long time since I have used it, but if my memory serves me correct it was ok.
http://www.kilz.com/pages/default.aspx?NavID=29


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

Last Craftsman said:


> How does it level out when sprayed, or brushed? I know this is asking kind of a lot, but I need it to flow out like oil! :whistling2:
> 
> I have products that I like for reducing acrylic paint, but when I reduce the primers I have tried it tends to facilitate stains transfering through the finish. So I have found acrylic primers stain kill best without reduction.
> 
> Better yet, do you know of an acrylic primer that will form itself into a paint crew, then prime itself while killing stains and flowing out like oil, then spray out the finish coats then cut and roll the walls, then rematerialize back into the can before the homeowner walks in?


It levels as well as a typical oil based primer.


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## painterdude (Jun 18, 2008)

1.2.3 was always my interior choice but for real problems Cover Stain was the ticket. Certainly better than kilz. Usual stains will be covered but nicotine etc. need the oil base or the shellac. Can you still get oil based primers in the green states??? pd


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Last Craftsman said:


> Does anyone know of such a product for interiors? I always used alkyd coverstain or lacquer undercoater for bonding and stain killing in one step.
> 
> I cant use solvents any more. I have tried zinsser123 acrylic with mixed results. Almost always there is fly/insect crap that bleeds through it.
> 
> ...


Your kidding? If you are willing to use shellac, why noy use Zinnser shellac based B-I-N? Great stuff!

https://www.zinsser.com/product_detail.asp?ProductId=10


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## Roadog (Apr 18, 2007)

http://www.targetcoatings.com/sealer_ox_shellac.html

Or water base shellac


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## slickshift (Apr 8, 2007)

Last Craftsman said:


> There is a new zinsser acrylic primer that apparantly is only sold in southern california, the website says it totally kills all stains, has anyone tried this?
> 
> What about shellacs with just regular grain alcohol or some other kind of non toxic alcohol does anyone have experience with this?


Many acrylic primers are 'touted' as stain-killers
Most (all...so far) are effective on _light stains only_
Zinsser, as good as their products are, is famous for the "does everything" marketing, which in reality is not as true as we _need_
(1-2-3 is a great primer, but by no means a stain sealer as advertised)

Shellac/alcohol based sealers are by no means "non-toxic", but are the best stain sealers

Alkyds are still the best bet for medium (and absolute light stain) sealing


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Waterbase shellac, interesting.


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

bikerboy said:


> Your kidding? If you are willing to use shellac, why noy use Zinnser shellac based B-I-N? Great stuff!
> 
> https://www.zinsser.com/product_detail.asp?ProductId=10


 
That s**t is burly to breath. It has acetone and dematured alcohol.

If I went with a shellac that used only 190 proof acohol, it would be quite non toxic, and would air out quicky leaving no vocs in the atmosphere or finish.

That put all that harsh stuff in there so it will dry in 3 minutes. I dont need it to flash dry. 1 hour is fine, 2, even 4 hours would be fine. I just want to stop breathing in solvents and other really bad gases.

It's the shellac itself that does the sealing, not the acetone, or the denatured alcohol.

Any carrier that evaporates reasonably quickly and is non toxic is fine.


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## Roadog (Apr 18, 2007)

You might want to read the MSDS health warnings on most water base/low VOC/green stuff. Talk about toxic. There are paints from BM rated by LEEDS as green with ingredients that "have been known" to cause cancer. Others warn about nervous disorders including coma. I'll take the denatured alcohol shellac any day. Acetone??? Are you sure?


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

Roadog said:


> You might want to read the MSDS health warnings on most water base/low VOC/green stuff. Talk about toxic. There are paints from BM rated by LEEDS as green with ingredients that "have been known" to cause cancer. Others warn about nervous disorders including coma. I'll take the denatured alcohol shellac any day. Acetone??? Are you sure?


 
What is really funny is the BM can that says "Contents partially unknown"

That is the funniest theing I have ever seen on a paint can, or any product for that matter.

Which green products are you talking about specifically? Becuase most of the ones I use dont have exeptional warnings.

The main thing I am concerned about is what flashes off while it is drying.

As far as inhaling sanding dust, or physical contact, I prevent that.

Lots of shellac is thinned with acetone. Thats the first ingredient in zinsser clear.

Denatured alchohol is fine once it airs out, but you dont want to breath that stuff while it's flashing.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

I wear a respirator when applying B-I-N.....Seriously! 
(then smoke a cigar when done)


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

bikerboy said:


> I wear a respirator when applying B-I-N.....Seriously!
> (then smoke a cigar when done)


 
We have a fresh air system.

If I could find a product for this stage, we would have non-toxic solution for every part of our porcedure.

It's not only for us, it's for our customers.

It's hard to convince them something is non toxic when it smells up the whole block, and we are wearing respirators.

It's the shellac that does the sealing. I would like to find a product that doesnt resort to using acetone and denatured alcohol as the carrier, seeing as how they are not a necessary ingredient to actually seal the stains.

When shellac was first being used, they didnt need acetone and denatured alcohol. 190 proof grain alcohol works.


***correction, B-I-N pigmented shellac from a gallon can does not use acetone, it uses ethyl and isopropyl alcohol.

However, the SPRAYCAN version does use acetone s a carrier.***

Shellac is a resin produced by the lac beetle. Its used to coat candy. 

If I could find a product that has a non toxic carrier, then no respirator is needed.


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## Faron79 (Dec 11, 2007)

*C2-One Latex Primer/Stainblocker*

If you're near a C2 dealer, try this stuff!!!
VERY nice to use...they formulated it to be better than 123.

I've used it...LOVE it. Much Less odor than 123...NOT kidding.

Use a good, full coat. Latex stain-blockers need time, often overnight to harden-off enough to "trap" the stain. That's just the ugly truth.
If some bleed-through starts to happen, a 2nd, feathered-in coat will stop it when dry.
Think of it this way...1st coat to trap/hold; 2nd coat to seal-off.

Again...if the coat is too thin, there's not enough primer to hold back a stain.
Yes, these Latex primers are slower (at stain-blocking anyway), but MUCH easier to use day-in/day-out!!!

Faron


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

Faron79 said:


> If you're near a C2 dealer, try this stuff!!!
> VERY nice to use...they formulated it to be better than 123.
> 
> I've used it...LOVE it. Much Less odor than 123...NOT kidding.
> ...


I have tried some c2 I liked, it enamalized a lot like oil.


When you say "feathered in" do you mean powder coat?

I wouldnt want to do that because that creates texture.


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

Faron79 said:


> If you're near a C2 dealer, try this stuff!!!
> VERY nice to use...they formulated it to be better than 123.
> 
> I've used it...LOVE it. Much Less odor than 123...NOT kidding.
> ...


I dont mind waiting over night.

It seems like I have been having better success with thin primer coats.

Maybe it's my imagination, but I crank the heat up to about 75, and a thin primer coat is dry really fast.

I kind of thought a thicker coat would stay wet longer, and loosen up the stain more, allowing it to move through the paint.


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## Faron79 (Dec 11, 2007)

*Success???!*

Success DOESN'T come from a thin  prime-coat!

You're shootin' yourself in the foot if you push a primer too thin, and then think you're doing a good job because it dries fast:no:!

It's kinda like sunscreen...put just a little on, and think you're fully protected?:blink:!!? Hardly.
Same with primer.

Put some nice/damp strawberry jelly on a thin slice of bread. It'll bleed through in no time.
Put same jelly on a thicker/heavy-bodied slice. Jelly (the "Stain") will be held back & get dried out.

The resins in a good stainblocking primer like C2-One start hardening/drying fairly fast...usually much faster than a stain can pull its way through.

>>> So, give your primer a chance to do its job by applying a good, FULL coat!!
>>> By "feathering-out", I mean to use a lightly loaded roller over a bleeding-stain, and just easing-off on the pressure as the roller clears the stain. Think of a plane taking off!
>>> The easiest way to do it....apply/feather primer over probable bleed/staining-prone areas FIRST. Let this dry half a day, to do the initial "stain-capture".
* Then, do the normal FULL coat over everything:notworthy:. This will be the main "blocking" layer:yes:.
>>> Don't go farther than 350-400sf/gal when priming to block stains.

Faron


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

Faron79 said:


> Success DOESN'T come from a thin  prime-coat!
> 
> You're shootin' yourself in the foot if you push a primer too thin, and then think you're doing a good job because it dries fast:no:!
> 
> ...


I wouldnt say I put it on thin, I just dont put it on thick. It sounds like you are recomending putting the primer on realy thick.

I put it on thick enough to where it flows out completely, if you put it on to thin, it would create texture that I dont want to sand out.

With the "feathering" thing, I dont want to have to put a roller on the trim. I spray everything, Using a roller just creates texture that needs to be removed later.

I never do anything to the surface that requires undoing later.

I will try putting the primer on heavier and see if I get more stain blocking. And I will try the c2 primer.

Thanks.

P.S. I wasnt convinced by your bread and jelly analogy, I thinnk the dynamics of paint film and stains are completely different.

Same with sunscreen.


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