# Graco SUCKS



## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

I bought a graco mark IV for a set of alph-tech tools and for spraying mud for level 5 finish. I kept it real clean,, lol, my mistake. I went to spray with it last week and it wouldn't spray,,,,,, to make a LONG story short, after several hours of messing with it I gave up and cleaned it up, THats when I found that the TUbe (where the filter for paint goes) was FLAKING metal off and it filled the mechanism with heavy duty metal flakes, causing the switch(from spray to circulate) to quit completely.

Well I called Graco and they said," No its not stainless steel, just looks like it". Your warranty has expired, and from what your saying, its probbly ruined. Another thing they said was "drywall mud is very corrosive and you have to expect that that". BUT this Mark IV is supposed to be EXCLUSIVELY for pumping mud. I swear, the graco rep was haveing a HARD time trying to keep from laughing at me. 

I have had it for 2 years, but have less than 30 hours on it, just seems to me its a rip off, and I for one will never buy a Graco ANYTHING again. 

For a comparison I just had a angle head that developed a problem. It was a Columbian brand. It was a year out of warranty, but the rep said, well we had a problem with some of them from that year, just send it to us and lets look at it,,, They sent me a new one and said, yes it was defective. 

I just have a hard time beleiving that a drywall mud pumping machince, should be ruined by pumping mud through it.

Now heres a good place to help me understand what I did wrong with this pump, I mean it was great, but at $100/hr, it wsn't that GOOD.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Did you try to speak to another rep?


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

Workaholic said:


> Did you try to speak to another rep?


No, but thats good advice, I think maybe I'll send graco an email tomarrow (too heavy into the recipe tonight, still mourning ya know)


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

yeah call another rep. if that don't work, writing a letter to the ceo might. I dated a girl awhile back whose father owned a pretty nice company. anyway, he personally read hundreds and hundreds of these customer feedback forms. 

you get the big kahunas attention. things will get better, usually.


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

good feedback. I have been drooling over these for about a year now. Let us know what happens.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

This is my money maker!


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Lemme know what parts you need, I can get most parts from an aftermarket manufacturer, the savings is usually pretty significant over GRACO OEM. Also, if the prime valve is clogged, cleaning it should fix it? So long as the inside of the fluid section isn't scratched, you should be good to go.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

Yeah.. I really don't have a clue as to whats wrong with it, like I said, I'm a drywaller, so airless sprayers aint my long suit. I have two airless that I use for priming and I do some painting on new constuction, when painters start trying to say "its all the drywallers fault". ya know. These are the cheap ones that you get at lowes, Wagners that have been "acquired" by graco. These don't work like the mark IV, they have no packings and balls in the foot and such stuff as that. when a $600 sprayer quits, I have allready made enough to retire it, or spending $100 to get it rebuilt is no big deal. SO talking to some painters that I know and respect are telling me that the packings maybe gone, or if the shaft is scratch it really is gone. It has me all confused and I really don't know what to do with it. Glidden will send it off to Wilmington and have it checked out and right now that is the way I am leaning, cause the painters I know, say that if you don't put it all back WITHIN SPECS it ain't gonna work anyway, so what I am seeing is that the painters I know, don't work on their own sprayers, and if they can't fix em, while using them everyday, what in the world can i do with one???

To make a very long story shorter, Can I really just take it apart, clean it, then put it back together without haveing countless and unatainable tools to adjust everything???


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

What exactly is the rig doing when you turn it on? Is it not priming? Is it priming and cycling properly but not pumping? Is it not doing anything?


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

This guy helped me earlier
Mr. Fixit


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

Workaholic said:


> What exactly is the rig doing when you turn it on? Is it not priming? Is it priming and cycling properly but not pumping? Is it not doing anything?


when I cranked it up, it fired up like it used too, and went to pumping,,, after about 10 minutes, it droped pressure,,, then the games began, It would circulate fine, but would not build over 1600 psi (should build to 3200), and as soon as I triggered it, it would drop to 300 psi or less, I tried everything I could think of, like thinning the mud (even tho this thing will pump it straight, no mixing) I cleaned it out,took the foot off to make sure the ball was working, it was, checked the filter at the bottom of the shaft, checked to make sure the mud was not clumped, yada yada. Then I sat there and flipped the switch to circulat and then spray, just messing with it cause I had no idea what was happening, till the switch quit working, it no longer will circulate, it stays on "spray: wheather the switch is in spray or circulate. So I gave up and cleaned it all up, thats when I discovered the "chrome plateing" that had peeled off, and I figure it just clogged the mechanisim up that goes from spray to circulate. When I quit messing with it it would not pump up to 1 lb, nothing, nada.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Interesting. It sounds almost like it could be your drain valve switch. Also sounds like it could use a repacking kit. Both those are easy to install. Follow the directions and take your time if you do it. 
I had a drain valve go out on me around the first of the year and it was behaving kind of funky with the pressure shortly before it busted. 
I am not saying that is what it is but when a pump[ stops switching from prime to pump those are suspect.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

RCP said:


> This guy helped me earlier
> Mr. Fixit


I appreciate the post, I tried to contact him, when you sent his link to me in a message, but (maybe its my computer) I get a message that "could not open windows mail" I dunno know, I always have a problem with windows mail, run into that alot when trying to get banjo tabs. 

maybe he will read this thread and send me a message


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

Workaholic said:


> Interesting. It sounds almost like it could be your drain valve switch. Also sounds like it could use a repacking kit. Both those are easy to install. Follow the directions and take your time if you do it.
> I had a drain valve go out on me around the first of the year and it was behaving kind of funky with the pressure shortly before it busted.
> I am not saying that is what it is but when a pump[ stops switching from prime to pump those are suspect.


 I think that the packings probbly need to be replacd, (cause the painters I have been talking too have told me that when you store it, you can't just clean it, you must leave it full of kerosene or pump gaurd) If I do tackle that, how do i know how to adjust all that stuff, it has a brass nut? above the shaft throat? that is tightened or lossened by hitting it with a punch? how tight or loose should that be? Do they sell a manual to deal with these issues? The packings seem to be a couple of nylon washers and a cpl of rubber washers, shouldn't be too hard to replace them?

The drain valve is no doubt clogged by those flakes of metal, can I just take it apart and clean it and put it back together??? no magical adjustments?? 

I know this sounds flakey, but I REALLY have no clue, other than evertime I have ever worked on one of these things, it has never worked again,lol. However i know that nothing is magicl after you know how it works.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

I was looking for a manual in pdf form and did not find one ( I only looked at the first pages of my search) Did your pump not come with a manual? Parts list and all that stuff? 
Yes there are instructions for the repacking of the pump if you buy a real graco packing. 
The drain valve switch I am talking about is the actual part that the pressure switch knob is connected to. I had to replace the entire part because it broke internal. That also comes with instructions. 
Honestly it sounds like those could be the problem. Of course I am no expert, there are others that may chime in and tell you don't listen to that nut. lol
If you are mechanically inclined they are pretty easy to do as long as you follow the directions to the T. 
You could send it into the shop and have them check these parts for you. 

Yes good storage practices will enhance the rigs life greatly. I store mine with mineral spirits. Having water based products in your pump long term eats at the parts. 
The tex spray is a nice rig and can do a lot more than just spray mud.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

This should be your book.
http://wwwd.graco.com/Distributors/DLibrary.nsf/Files/311287/$file/311287E.pdf


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## DarthPainter (Jul 26, 2009)

I know that is made for pumping mud, but in my experience, whenever you're using mud, like level five, take the filters out and leave em out till you're done. Filters just get eaten alive by joint compound.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

DO NOT TAKE THE PUMP APART!!! Remove the drain valve, if theres metal in it.....replace it. DO take the filters out and clean them. Most likely it is the check ball's. They are most likely damaged from the metal passing through, which would explain the pressure gain and loss. 

Take the bottom of the fluid section off ( suction tube that goes in the mud ) there should be a big ball bearing inside there. Take it out and inspect it. It's probably got a gash or cut in it, or possibly a flat spot. If the bottom one looks like that, chances are the top one does too. 

If thats not the issue, then theres something blocking contact between the ball and seat, take it to a service center.....or send it me


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## mr.fixit (Aug 16, 2009)

*Graco repair*

Hey Captain Sheetrock

there are 2 guys in North Carolina that are awesome technicians and straight up guys. they are part of my working group so I can say this and know it to be true both are Express Pump Repair one is at 308 Old Dairy Road in Wilmington,NC 910-791-7277 ask for Dave Gregory or if you are closer to Greensboro,NC call Randy at Expres Pump Repair 1015 Warehouse Street he can be reached at 336-207-1910
Graco is changing its liberal customer service policy to being very cheap


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

mr.fixit said:


> Hey Captain Sheetrock
> 
> there are 2 guys in North Carolina that are awesome technicians and straight up guys. they are part of my working group so I can say this and know it to be true both are Express Pump Repair one is at 308 Old Dairy Road in Wilmington,NC 910-791-7277 ask for Dave Gregory or if you are closer to Greensboro,NC call Randy at Expres Pump Repair 1015 Warehouse Street he can be reached at 336-207-1910
> Graco is changing its liberal customer service policy to being very cheap


 
well I wrote a long reply and it dissappeared before I could post it, guess when it rains it pours...lol

Anyway, the rep called me AGAIN today, after he talked to ALL-WALL, the company i bought it from, and he forgot all about the conversawtion we had two days ago, where he laughed at me and told me it was out of warranty. 

Anyway, he is going to pay for the examination and if the metal IS flaking off will replace THAT part (like I don't know what meatl flakes look like, lol)

The packings may need to be replaced, and I am okay with haveing to pay for that, cause ignorance is no excuse, even if the maunal says it is SUGGESTED you keep it full of oil, not that IF YOU DON"T IT WILL GO TO HELL. 

He is haveing me send it to Express Pump in willmington,,, how bout that, ain't this a great site????

Now I don't know alot about these things, but I am SURE its the metal flakes, it built right up to 3000 lbs, then the metal flakes,,, maybe they ruined everything, But the rep did say ,and I quote "there is no way that the metal flakes could have gotten BACK down in the pump, once it pumps it up it can never get back down" again I'm confused, doesent the "circulate" switch send it back to the bucket???? it looks to me like it does, Oh well, 

I will keep you posted, but it will be a cpl weeks i guess before I know anything.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Give us an update when you get it figured out. I would like to know the diagnosis.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> DO NOT TAKE THE PUMP APART!!! Remove the drain valve, if theres metal in it.....replace it. DO take the filters out and clean them. Most likely it is the check ball's. They are most likely damaged from the metal passing through, which would explain the pressure gain and loss.
> 
> Take the bottom of the fluid section off ( suction tube that goes in the mud ) there should be a big ball bearing inside there. Take it out and inspect it. It's probably got a gash or cut in it, or possibly a flat spot. If the bottom one looks like that, chances are the top one does too.
> 
> If thats not the issue, then theres something blocking contact between the ball and seat, take it to a service center.....or send it me


HUH????

Man you lost me big time,,,, got to really dumb it down for me,,, I apoligize, when it comes to taping tools like bazookas and mudrunners, I underatand what the parts are and what they do,I can overhaul one and watch the beverly hillbillies with a buzz going on, but I am less than a RANK BEGINNER on airless, but I am on the way to learning a bit about them.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

*This guys the BOMB!*



mr.fixit said:


> Hey Captain Sheetrock
> 
> there are 2 guys in North Carolina that are awesome technicians and straight up guys. they are part of my working group so I can say this and know it to be true both are Express Pump Repair one is at 308 Old Dairy Road in Wilmington,NC 910-791-7277 ask for Dave Gregory or if you are closer to Greensboro,NC call Randy at Expres Pump Repair 1015 Warehouse Street he can be reached at 336-207-1910
> Graco is changing its liberal customer service policy to being very cheap


What a great deal!
We gotta start a thread on pump repairs. Or something, so we can pick this guys brain. 
Mr fixit i hope you stick around.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

Workaholic said:


> Give us an update when you get it figured out. I would like to know the diagnosis.


I surely will. I could problly fix it with the help you guys have offerd, and I thank you for it, but this really needs some warranty/replace a defective part work on it. I am taking it in to Glidden tomarrow and they will send it on to wilmington to be worked on/fixed. When I have the skinny on it , I'll post it.

Thanks again guys, you have been SUPER


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## IHATE_HOMEDEPOT (May 27, 2008)

Great to hear that the Graco rep. was willing to help. The thing is Graco is a huge company and I am sure they have there hands full, however,it would be nice if they put up a forum with techs that could help people. I have very bad luck myself trying to fix my machines on my own. So I did have a pressure transducer go out on my 395 once and it was this lttle brass rod looking thing with a hole in it.
For anyone doing there own maintenance if you do have the need to take a machine apart I would strongly suggest video taping the procedure or at the very least write notes as you go, take pictures if you can, and document as much as you can. The repacking looks simple but on the rubber/silicone washers there is an exact sequence.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

The rep is right, once the metal is up in the pump, there really isnt any way for them to fall back down. UNLESS you open the prime valve ( recirculate part ) and run the pump constantly. Glad they are taking care of it, they should have a tech inspect the part to see if it is a defective part, or self inflicted damage. 

On a side note...always send in your warranty registration cards!!! Those are the little post card looking things that you get when you purchase your machine. This gets your unit in the system, and if theres ever a problem, it will help you in getting the issue resolved quicker.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> The rep is right, once the metal is up in the pump, there really isnt any way for them to fall back down. UNLESS you open the prime valve ( recirculate part ) and run the pump constantly. Glad they are taking care of it, they should have a tech inspect the part to see if it is a defective part, or self inflicted damage.
> 
> LOL, in my humble experience, when chrome plateing starts flaking off like MEGA dandruff, well its got to be a defect. They do have a tech looiing at it, but anyone with one eye and half sense can see a defect THIS obvious.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Im not saying it isnt a defect, it's just a part of the process. I personally wont warranty replace something unless I see it. Im just trying to explain from the manufacturer's side. They'll take care of it im sure, but it's still a process, and its not fun....and im sure they wont leave you hanging. 

Most repair shops are "Authorized Service Centers" We have been trained by the Manufacturer's and certified to do warranty work. Heres the warranty process

1. Call the manufacturer to check if your machine is under warranty ( which is why I said to always send in your warranty card  )

2. If it's a defective part, we call the manufacturer to check if there was a recall, or see if the part can be replaced at no charge. Sometimes, depending on the issue at hand, they want a second opinion....via the Rep

3. If everything is approved we fix your pump, and send an official warranty replacement work order to the manufacturer, so we get credit for the part, and paid for the labor.

Thats it in a nutshell, so if you've dropped it off already, you should hear an answer fairly soon.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> Im not saying it isnt a defect, it's just a part of the process. I personally wont warranty replace something unless I see it. Im just trying to explain from the manufacturer's side. They'll take care of it im sure, but it's still a process, and its not fun....and im sure they wont leave you hanging.
> 
> Most repair shops are "Authorized Service Centers" We have been trained by the Manufacturer's and certified to do warranty work. Heres the warranty process
> 
> ...


Check this out,,, its a DRYWALL mud pump,,, Graco says "mud is VERY corrosive, we can;t garuntee the effect it has on the pump"

IF they had TOLD me that before I spent $3200 for a DRYWALL pump,. I would not have wasted my money or their time. I mean, how can you tell a custermer that the pump they bought to do WHAT YOU SAID IT WOULD, won't really do that, and too bad. 

I know we are a waiting to see what they say, but they have already said "its not our fault, this thing can't stand up to the purpose it was made for.

nuff ranting,,, I'll let ya know what the verdit is.

Peace


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

sounds crazy stupid


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Check this out,,, its a DRYWALL mud pump,,, Graco says "mud is VERY corrosive, we can;t garuntee the effect it has on the pump"
> 
> IF they had TOLD me that before I spent $3200 for a DRYWALL pump,. I would not have wasted my money or their time. I mean, how can you tell a custermer that the pump they bought to do WHAT YOU SAID IT WOULD, won't really do that, and too bad



They said that? That's insane. They should have said " these pumps take a great deal of abuse, and depending on the type of material being used, certain internal parts wear faster than others" At least, thats what I would have said to ya. 

Keepin my fingers crossed for ya. The shop just has to go through the right channels to make sure they dont give something out that they can't get credited for.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Check this out,,, its a DRYWALL mud pump,,, Graco says "mud is VERY corrosive, we can;t garuntee the effect it has on the pump"
> 
> IF they had TOLD me that before I spent $3200 for a DRYWALL pump,. I would not have wasted my money or their time. I mean, how can you tell a custermer that the pump they bought to do WHAT YOU SAID IT WOULD, won't really do that, and too bad.
> 
> ...


did they say there was anyway to minimize the corrosion..? Besides not using it...


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

TJ Paint said:


> did they say there was anyway to minimize the corrosion..? Besides not using it...


LOL,, I know that I come off as being a wee bit ruff (working on that)

They said that I should NEVER let it dry out, I MUST keep it full of pump armour when not in use, HOWEVER drywall mud is VERY corrsive and I SHOULD expect EXTRA wear because of this.

My point of contention with them is this,,, its a drywall mud pump,, I can accept the fact that I should keep it full of armour (or kerosene) but I find it REALLY unacceptable that a drywall pump won't handle drywall mud.

thats what this whole thing is about, IF the pump won't handle the material it was made for, then they are Charlotens (Ican't spell either) and they should either fix the problem or quit making them, not tell people that ,,, well TOO BAD (ya dummy,, that was implied, not spoken)


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> They said that I should NEVER let it dry out, I MUST keep it full of pump armour when not in use, HOWEVER drywall mud is VERY corrsive and I SHOULD expect EXTRA wear because of this.
> 
> My point of contention with them is this,,, its a drywall mud pump,, I can accept the fact that I should keep it full of armour (or kerosene) but I find it REALLY unacceptable that a drywall pump won't handle drywall mud.



It will, it just has to be kept clean. Thats like leaving your mud knives with mud on them, or allowing a paint brush to dry full of paint. It's not gonna work right the next time you need to use it. These tools are your bread and butter, your money makers, and should be treated as such. A broken machine sucks, paying for a repair sucks......not having your machine ready when you need it SUCKS EVEN WORSE. There's nothing more costly than down time.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

NCPaint1 said:


> There's nothing more costly than down time.


how bout whiskey and women?


on a purely serious and to the point tone, your analogy of not cleaning mud knives or brushes out was sound, fair, and balanced.


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> LOL,, I know that I come off as being a wee bit ruff (working on that)
> 
> They said that I should NEVER let it dry out, I MUST keep it full of pump armour when not in use, HOWEVER drywall mud is VERY corrsive and I SHOULD expect EXTRA wear because of this.
> 
> ...



are you thinning the mud? I can't believe that it is the machine and not the user. Sorry, if they put a $5500 price tag on it they should know the reliability and does and don'ts to the machine. If you go outside of what it takes to keep em running right then...


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

nEighter said:


> are you thinning the mud? I can't believe that it is the machine and not the user. Sorry, if they put a $5500 price tag on it they should know the reliability and does and don'ts to the machine. If you go outside of what it takes to keep em running right then...


Yeah, I hear ya,,, I read the part about keeping the TSP oil on the sahft, and I do it, even go in once a month and re=apply it, CAUSE THEY RECOMENDED it...

I have been useing drywall knives and paint brushes for years. I have never had a knife that FLAKED off its coating,, had a bunch that went to heck from rust, but like i said before, if the packings are shot from drying out I don't have a problem paying to get them fixed

Its in their shop now,,, it didn't have any rust on it, just THEIR chrome palteing flaking OFF their part. I'm an OLD goat and I know a defectve part when I see it, okay?? If i left a brush full of paint, I would NEVER expect a refund or replacemant, Really, drywallers ain't as dumb as you think we are.

Everytime I have sent a drywall tool back to the maker for a defect, it has been replaced,, why?? cause I don't send em back unless they are OBVIOUSLY defective,, like this pump,,, okay???

Peace out,,, we still await their learned observation


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

I heard from Exspress Pump in Wilmington today, The verdict is that the Entire pump, from the screen at the bottom to where it goes into the hose is Shot. The guy I talked to told me "I can't believe it has that much wear on it, it looks brand new" I told him it has about 30 hours on it and less than 250 buckets of mud run through it. He said "theres no way in hell, this thing has had alot more use than that" I get really tired of folks telling me that I'm lying to em, but alas,, He told me that whatever I was spraying out of it, was wearing it out. He allowed that this was the first level 5 mud pump he had worked on.

Anyhoo,,, Graco is threating to pay for the repair, even tho it is out of warranty. 

What do you guys think,, I could sell it after it has been rebuilt,, or take the chance that it might hold up this time. I really wish I could get Graco's view on wheater this pump will handle mud or not? Its a tough spot to be in when you don't know wheater the pump is the right tool for the job or not.

Anyway, I should hear back from Express Pump in a cpl of days, about the outcome (Graco has to verify from All-Wall, that I did indeed buy this thing (thats fair enough)).


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

mr.fixit said:


> Hey Captain Sheetrock
> 
> there are 2 guys in North Carolina that are awesome technicians and straight up guys. they are part of my working group so I can say this and know it to be true both are Express Pump Repair one is at 308 Old Dairy Road in Wilmington,NC 910-791-7277 ask for Dave Gregory or if you are closer to Greensboro,NC call Randy at Expres Pump Repair 1015 Warehouse Street he can be reached at 336-207-1910
> Graco is changing its liberal customer service policy to being very cheap


Dave in Wilimgton is the guy that is doing the repairs on this thing. It would be really cool if you could shed some light on the entire thing, I'm not looking for sides to be taken, but just the truth, If its my fault, then so be it. Alot of folks are looking at this thread, the question is "can the mark iv handle mud, or not, if not then its time to go back to hand methods.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

nEighter said:


> are you thinning the mud? I can't believe that it is the machine and not the user. Sorry, if they put a $5500 price tag on it they should know the reliability and does and don'ts to the machine. If you go outside of what it takes to keep em running right then...


Then??? did you say Then????

Dave, the guy that fixed it, said "Ican't believe its this worn out, it looks BRAND NEW", 

I told him it has 30 hours on it and less than 250 buckets of mud throught it,,,,,,,, his reply was, no way in hel* this has had alot more stuff through it than that. I told him it was just mud, no paint at all, his reply was,,,, uhhhhhhhhhh,,,, he had no idea it was a mud pump,,, his next reply was,,,,, This thing isn't big enough for that, its too small for that,, mud will put too much strain on it, it can't handle it.

Heck if I was spraying paint, I'd a bought a sprayer from Lowes,,,, I've real GOOD luck with them


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

mr.fixit said:


> Hey Captain Sheetrock
> 
> there are 2 guys in North Carolina that are awesome technicians and straight up guys. they are part of my working group so I can say this and know it to be true both are Express Pump Repair one is at 308 Old Dairy Road in Wilmington,NC 910-791-7277 ask for Dave Gregory or if you are closer to Greensboro,NC call Randy at Expres Pump Repair 1015 Warehouse Street he can be reached at 336-207-1910
> Graco is changing its liberal customer service policy to being very cheap


Mr fixit, heres a good place to chime in,,, like i mentioned in the previous post,, The Lowes sprayers I have,,, handle anything (paintwise) I throw at em,,, one is nearly twenty years old and still getting it,,, had it re-built by you as a matter of fact last year,,, for 100.00. I have two others that I got at Lowes,, and they are still going. My Graco is 2 yrs old, barely used, and won't pump water!!!

The standard answer seems to be, it must be me,,, I don't understand how I can spray paint with no problem, but mud destroys,,,, How come I can clean and maintain my Lowes pump, that I don't really care much about, but my Graco, that i keep looking in showroom shape, is destroyed???


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Mr fixit, heres a good place to chime in,,, like i mentioned in the previous post,, The Lowes sprayers I have,,, handle anything (paintwise) I throw at em,,, one is nearly twenty years old and still getting it,,, had it re-built by you as a matter of fact last year,,, for 100.00. I have two others that I got at Lowes,, and they are still going. My Graco is 2 yrs old, barely used, and won't pump water!!!
> 
> The standard answer seems to be, it must be me,,, I don't understand how I can spray paint with no problem, but mud destroys,,,, How come I can clean and maintain my Lowes pump, that I don't really care much about, but my Graco, that i keep looking in showroom shape, is destroyed???



2 things. 

1. did you say that the graco you talk about IS the Mark V? The one you keep in tip top shape? Pumps, I have found, have to be used. You stop using them they will lock up and do weird things. My guess is the product constantly going through them, solvents, and water free up stuff.. and you let that sit and your pump is gunna need a lot of attention to ger her running again.

2. Ever hear of extrude honing?

http://www.boneheadperformance.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=EH#how

that mud is just a fine fine grit sandpaper man. Wears parts out reeal good.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

My take on the problem is that of course it is meant for the job of pumping mud and of course it can perform the task. They have been making those rigs for quite awhile now and if it was a sham it would of been revealed by now. 
I think it needs routine maintenance and proper storage when not in use. 

Did you ever get hold of a different Graco rep? Any news yet?


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

level 5 finish is overrated btw. lol


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

nEighter said:


> 2 things.
> 
> 1. did you say that the graco you talk about IS the Mark V? The one you keep in tip top shape? Pumps, I have found, have to be used. You stop using them they will lock up and do weird things. My guess is the product constantly going through them, solvents, and water free up stuff.. and you let that sit and your pump is gunna need a lot of attention to ger her running again.
> 
> ...


1)The pump is a mark iv, graco said that it will do the same thing as a markv, unless I am running more than one set of tools off it. If leaving it idle for longer periods is too destructive, than I need to re-adjust and go back to hand doing it. Maybe the way it is, if it is, then so be it
2) HUH???


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

Workaholic said:


> My take on the problem is that of course it is meant for the job of pumping mud and of course it can perform the task. They have been making those rigs for quite awhile now and if it was a sham it would of been revealed by now.
> I think it needs routine maintenance and proper storage when not in use.
> 
> Did you ever get hold of a different Graco rep? Any news yet?


I have gotten some feed back, it has been repaired, from stem to stern, everything from the bottom filter to where it goes into the hose. The guy that rebuilt it couldn't believe how totally destroyed it was,, even insinuated that I was fooling him about how little use it had, even tho he said "man this thing looks brand new". He waas supposed to check it out and then call graco and then me to see who was paying for it, and this is what I am waiting for the finalee. He id allow that this thing wasn't "big" enough inside for mud. As for proper maintaince, IF I get it back, I will keep it full of pump armour and see if it will hold together.

As for getting hold of a differant rep, no, they said to send it to express pump, and I did, they were supposed to let me know, they are working with express pump, and I expect to hear from one or the other after they figure out what they are going to do.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

TJ Paint said:


> level 5 finish is overrated btw. lol


 
Oh absolutly, yes you are right,, I totally agree


The ONLY reason level5 is around, is because painters and drywallers refuse to agree or come together on PREPING the walls for paint. 

If the wall is not swept or blown off with an air compressor, and the primer is not back rolled, you are GOING to see the joints. That is why I paint some houses, when the GC wants to know whos fault it is, I just paint one and it becomes obvious.If you paint a wall with a sprayer without backrolling it, it "captures" (we call it photographing) the dust lines around the joints, and then you are fighting an uphill battle. Hence the level5, as drywallers, we go in, sweep the walls, then spray them with mud, then sand them. The reson level5 never catches on, is then the painters come in and spray primer without backrolling and we are in the same mess again.:whistling2:


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Oh absolutly, yes you are right,, I totally agree
> 
> 
> The ONLY reason level5 is around, is because painters and drywallers refuse to agree or come together on PREPING the walls for paint.
> ...


those darn painters


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

i thought it was always the drywallers fault at least thats what i tell my customers


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

TJ Paint said:


> i thought it was always the drywallers fault at least thats what i tell my customers


actually it is always the drywallers fault, the reason I'm still at it is that I am really adept at blaming it all on someone else!!!:notworthy:

Actually after some thought, I realize it really is the fault of the paper-hangers


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

Well the verdict is in,,,,

The packings and the fluid section were worn out,,,

Graco's response is "its out of warranty, don't call us"

Dave from Express Pump, the guy that fixed it, says "this pump will have to be rebuilt every 200 buckets of mud, it is not designed to handle drywall mud, mud is too corrosive and will wear it out" He felt like like 200 buckets was alot and a reasonable amount for a rebuild. When the economy is "normal", 200 buckets is like a month.

I figured things were gonna end up this way, but I felt like exsposing Graco's BS about selling this pump as a drywall pumper.

Gonna go pick it up today,, don't really know what to do with it tho, guess I'll just look at it for awhile.

Thanks for all the replies:thumbsup:


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## graybear13 (Feb 28, 2009)

Thanks for keeping the updates coming . Wish you luck on yer pump .:yes:


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## LOSTinDETAILS (Jun 17, 2009)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Well the verdict is in,,,,
> 
> The packings and the fluid section were worn out,,,
> 
> ...


Just remember to add that into your pricing and overhead and it wont be a problem. If you are able to do the work yourself you should. It is actually pretty easy if you are "somewhat" mechanical. If not definitely leave it alone.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

LOSTinDETAILS said:


> Just remember to add that into your pricing and overhead and it wont be a problem. If you are able to do the work yourself you should. It is actually pretty easy if you are "somewhat" mechanical. If not definitely leave it alone.


 
Indeed, I do repair my auto tools (ames type) so now I will get busy learning how to do the repairs to this as well.


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

how much we talking?


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

nEighter said:


> how much we talking?


Well...... 

it came to 380.00

Now, when I picked it up, I got the messed up packings back in a bag,,, Like I said from the beginning, I was willing to accept the FACT that I did not know the proper way to store a machine and if the packings were bad, I'd accept that as my screw up. 

What I wanted addressed from graco and the repair guy was the metal flaking from the cylinder.

WELL<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< when I got it home, I looked in the cylinder,, and guess what????? the metal flakes where STILL CLINGING TO THE SIDES OF THE CYLINDER (you ever wonder if ANYONE IS LISTENING?) 

So I called the pump guy (dave from Exspress pump) and he said, "oh well, don;t worry about that, it will go out the gun. Truly, he was only worried about who was gonna pay him,, I kept telling him, "ain't nobody trying to beat you out of your money" and I did pay the bill IN FULL.

Now, ICI, where they pump was sent from (Gliden) says to use paint thinner and oil, The painters I know say to use kerosene, the pump guy says to use pump armour, and graco says to use pump armour, but ships with motor oil!!! YAHHHHHHH.... 

HOW can I keep the packings from drying up???? of course, this all depends on if I can figure out how to keep them metal flakes from screwing it all up again!!!!!

Confused in NC


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

I use thinner. 

What kind of mud are you running through it? premixed, or the kind you mix?


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

Workaholic said:


> I use thinner.
> 
> What kind of mud are you running through it? premixed, or the kind you mix?


Just regular joint compund, Green lid USG or black lid Proform


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

Workaholic said:


> I use thinner.
> 
> What kind of mud are you running through it? premixed, or the kind you mix?


 
really at this point I'm worried about the pump... I plan tomarrow to take the gun off the hose, run water through the pump, with the return hose outside the bucket, and try to get the metal flakes to pass out of the hose, any ideas on how to facilitate this???


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## [email protected] (Mar 1, 2008)

First I wouldn't worry about the flakes. They are past where they would do the most damage. For storage you might be better off putting some Kerosene it. If no more than run it just long enough to prime it. A lot cheaper than thinner. Or one of the product designed for storage.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

well, I run water through it, till I got all the metal flakes out, it took about 7 or 8 buckets till the circulate hose quit sending it back to the bucket, but I kept rinsing the bucket out, hopefully it is okay.

I am gonna use it next week, should run about 25 buckets through it. I will let you guys know how it did.

Thanks ALOT for the helpful posts.

I have it full of kerosene right now, even filled up the two other sprayers I have with it. I guess even a drywaller can learn a new trick sometimes.


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## IHATE_HOMEDEPOT (May 27, 2008)

*Graco is out*

Firstly I always thought that the pistons were stainless steel so for it to flake is flaky. Secondly don't forget to take out the screen from the prime section when you run mud like one of the previous posters mentioned and lastly thank you so much for posting the logs so that the next time I spend $2000. I remember the quality of help given to you.

I totally disagree with putting oils in my machines because it is such a pain when you go to water, yeah if your talking a year in storage maybe but...

My paint store has a jar of Pump Armor with nails in it that they set up as demo, no rust present after a year and it was diluted with water.


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

Capt: I think you've handled this entire situation very well. Write a letter to one of the big boys at Graco. Hell, don't waste time on a letter, just copy and past this entire thread and send it to the VP of Marketing, President, Vp of Operations, etc... Chances are nothing will happen because of it but there is a chance one of those folks in that position have some common sense.

If I understand you right, to continue using this type of application it will cost you ~$400 / month. Instead of wasting your time messin' with these yahoos - work the numbers. Does the productivity gained by using this pump offset the ~$400 / mo? If so, it's a no-brainer - use the pump. If not it, screw it - go back to the manual application. My $.02


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

For storing pumps longer than a week or two....I mix 50/50 thinner and motor oil ( any type ) Water can evaporate over time, same with just thinner, mixing the oil and thinner keeps everything from sticking. When you are ready to go again, flush a few gallons of water mixed with dish soap ( Dawn or whatever ). It will cut the oil and you'll be ready to shoot latex.


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## [email protected] (Mar 1, 2008)

Witch ever way you do it I would just fill the pump not the hoses. If you are carefully when you use it next time save save the mixture and reuse it. I do this all the time in the winter with antifreeze. I Hate frozen pumps and lines.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

fresh coat said:


> Capt: I think you've handled this entire situation very well. Write a letter to one of the big boys at Graco. Hell, don't waste time on a letter, just copy and past this entire thread and send it to the VP of Marketing, President, Vp of Operations, etc... Chances are nothing will happen because of it but there is a chance one of those folks in that position have some common sense.
> 
> If I understand you right, to continue using this type of application it will cost you ~$400 / month. Instead of wasting your time messin' with these yahoos - work the numbers. Does the productivity gained by using this pump offset the ~$400 / mo? If so, it's a no-brainer - use the pump. If not it, screw it - go back to the manual application. My $.02


I don't think thats really nessacary, when I called All-Wall (where I got it from) to get them to fax over a copy of the bill of sale (I was sure they would not believe me if I sent mine in) the guy from all-wall asked me if it was the one in the graco-sucks thread on the net. I feel fairly sure graco watches these threads, I would if I was them. 

Like I mentioned, i'm gonna use it next week, I will monitor how much mud I get before the next problem, If I have one. The packings going bad was my blunder (ignorance) and I didn't mind paying for my mistake.I still am real skiddish about the flakes that continue to peel off, and wish that graco would replace that part (clyinder), as it has to be a defect, I can't believe they designed it to just flake off. Hopefully by keeping it oiled between uses, this wan't happen like this again. Its a lets watch and see game. One thing i want to keep my eye on the pressure, when I was cleaning it yesterday, it would jump right up to 3200 psi, with water, but when I started spraying, it would drop to below 500 psi in a few seconds and stay there. Not being adept at sprayers (really dumb) I am hoping that it will hold better pressure with mud in it, as that is too low to work the tools with.

thanks again guys, and do you really think I handled this well???? I thought I got a little bitchy at times,,


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> For storing pumps longer than a week or two....I mix 50/50 thinner and motor oil ( any type ) Water can evaporate over time, same with just thinner, mixing the oil and thinner keeps everything from sticking. When you are ready to go again, flush a few gallons of water mixed with dish soap ( Dawn or whatever ). It will cut the oil and you'll be ready to shoot latex.


The guy at ICI where I picked it up from recommended the same thing, and I intend to do just that when I'm gonna store it for awhile, but since I'm gonna use it in the next few days to a week, I went with kerosense cause I figure it will be eaiser to clean out.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

IHATE_HOMEDEPOT said:


> Firstly I always thought that the pistons were stainless steel so for it to flake is flaky. Secondly don't forget to take out the screen from the prime section when you run mud like one of the previous posters mentioned and lastly thank you so much for posting the logs so that the next time I spend $2000. I remember the quality of help given to you.
> 
> The clyinder, where the filter is your talking about is what is flaking off on the inside (prime section) and yes I don't use a filter in it at all with mud.
> This rig was 3200.00


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## MR.X (Mar 9, 2009)

now think about taking water and soap mixing it together and then runing it throught your machine?...does this seem logical too you...i cant understand how you dont have fisheyes out the ying yang or peeling issues with that...
and even motor oil and thinner.... 
ive never heard of these methods...
been tried and true min spirits for storage in a 50 degree place... then a simple flush out with water until water is clear and clean,ive also seen some companies that have whats termed "pump armour" that you can use in them...
as for the poster of this what graco machine you have and where did you buy it? ive never heard of this issue...very odd having that sort of thing happen..


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Hmm...that pressure drop sounds fishy. Im not super experienced in spraying mud ( although some paints sure feel like it  ) Are you using a tip when you spray mud? If not I can understand the pressure drop, if you are......that doesn't sound right. Unless the pump isnt building to 3200psi with the mud, I cant imagine it building that high with that heavy a material. Typically pumps only drop around 400psi ( called dead band ) before the pump kicks back on to rebuild the pressure.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> Hmm...that pressure drop sounds fishy. Im not super experienced in spraying mud ( although some paints sure feel like it  ) Are you using a tip when you spray mud? If not I can understand the pressure drop, if you are......that doesn't sound right. Unless the pump isnt building to 3200psi with the mud, I cant imagine it building that high with that heavy a material. Typically pumps only drop around 400psi ( called dead band ) before the pump kicks back on to rebuild the pressure.


Yeah, scares me too, Yeah It uses a tip, the big un,, I can't remember the term, but it hooks in right behind the tip, it don't run through the handle and filter like regular guns do. I have 100 ft of the big hose with a 6 ft whip of the smaller hose, like regular spray rigs have (told ya I'm a dummy bout these things). It didn't use to drop like that, I guess, I never checked it out with just water when I was cleaning it, so I'll see if it does it when I use next week with mud. I'm hopeing that water is causeing it to do this, as it is supposedly designed for stiffer stuff (hey its my lie, I can tell it as big as i want). but it will build to 3200 with mud and run it at 2500 psi when it is running right, or it did when it was new


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

That sounds right then. With a huge tip on there running water, the pressure drops out quick and cant regenerate fast enough. Im assuming that you have 3/8" hose coming off the rig.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> That sounds right then. With a huge tip on there running water, the pressure drops out quick and cant regenerate fast enough. Im assuming that you have 3/8" hose coming off the rig.


 
Well I used it this week,,, ran 6 buckets through her,,, she held pressure great, so I guess it was just that water wouldn't hold the pressure up,, she run at 2500 psi fine,,,, STILL FLAKING OFF IN THE PRIMING CYLIDER THO

Have had a cpl of friends that talk to Graco reps, Graco still HOLDS that there is NO WAY it can be flaking off there,,, even tho they are not willing to LOOK AT IT. 

Got some folks, like Alpha-tech (drywall tools) asking Graco about this stuff,,,


Reckon Graco will EVER ever wonder about this stuff????

If someone was to make these statments about MY work,, I would check it out,, would you??????


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

I would no BS tell them to look at it. As in they BETTER look at it.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

nEighter said:


> I would no BS tell them to look at it. As in they BETTER look at it.


LOL, its kinda obvious they don't care man.

I sent graco an email the other night and a rep called me yesterday, of course he was in the baby seat divsion so he didn't have a clue on what I was talking about. He did threaten to have a local rep get in touch with me, and I must admit he asked me THREE times if it was still under warranty. I think that is all they care about.

They have been told about this thread, and the two other ones on other forums,,, I figure if they cared, they would do something.

Anyway, I derive a certain sort of vindictive justice to letting people know that graco doesn't care about their quality or custermers.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> LOL, its kinda obvious they don't care man.
> 
> I sent graco an email the other night and a rep called me yesterday, of course he was in the baby seat divsion so he didn't have a clue on what I was talking about. He did threaten to have a local rep get in touch with me, and I must admit he asked me THREE times if it was still under warranty. I think that is all they care about.
> 
> ...


Ok, so you receive no sense of consideration from them, no hint that they will do anything for you. Basically you are powerless to change anybody's minds who you've talked to. You have learned a few things about how to store it better it sounds...

I'd say the only other thing you got for a card in your deck is to write a serious letter to the CEO. You might think this is stupid and won't do anything. Maybe it won't. But it might. Write it out in a way that explains the absurdity, and how much time you had to spend on it, money, etc. Then, the card you play is: make it clear you will tell everybody never to buy graco again because of your experience. 

You might think its a waste of time and won't work. I'd say you don't know till you do it, and its about the only card in the deck that is playable at this point. Plus you spent alot of time on this already, why not walk this baby all the way home to the front step.

A personal experience I had with internet travel agency was real bad. Basically, they screwed up, and wasted a bunch of my time. I wasn't out any money either, but the experience of wasting time I could have spent with the people I was visiting irritated me so much I wrote a letter to the CEO just saying I'd never do business with them again. I just wanted to vent some steam, but I was serious as well. Well, they refunded my entire ticket. Funny thing is I wasn't looking for that. 

Take it or leave it I guess.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

TJ Paint said:


> Ok, so you receive no sense of consideration from them, no hint that they will do anything for you. Basically you are powerless to change anybody's minds who you've talked to. You have learned a few things about how to store it better it sounds...
> 
> I'd say the only other thing you got for a card in your deck is to write a serious letter to the CEO. You might think this is stupid and won't do anything. Maybe it won't. But it might. Write it out in a way that explains the absurdity, and how much time you had to spend on it, money, etc. Then, the card you play is: make it clear you will tell everybody never to buy graco again because of your experience.
> 
> ...


 
Thats some serious and thoughtfull advice (you sure your a painter??)

Seriously tho, ya know, your right. I think I will do just that.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

lol yeah I'm a painter, I also cook sometimes. Just tryin to help man, I can relate to the feelin I suspect you got from the situation.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

TJ Paint said:


> lol yeah I'm a painter, I also cook sometimes. Just tryin to help man, I can relate to the feelin I suspect you got from the situation.


 
Cool man, I won't hold it agin ya,,,, I picks the banjer some myself:thumbup:


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I picks the banjer some myself:thumbup:


I pick a bit on guitar too. You like Doc Watson?


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

I think a letter is a fine idea. That being said, I would copy all your recipts, and include names of people who you spoke with, dates, and what was discussed. Photos would be a plus if you have them. 

It seems to me that you got passed around the corporate machine. I dont think it was intentionally. I think it was people not knowing how to handle a situation. ( too many cooks in the kitchen so to speak ) They SHOULD have sent the part back to tech services, that way they could determine if the part was defective, or customer inflicted. Just because its the first time something has happened, doesn't mean it will be the last. Then determined their answer, ( IE. You pay, or we cover it ) It seems as though somewhere along the line, the ball was dropped.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

TJ Paint said:


> I pick a bit on guitar too. You like Doc Watson?


 
Sure do, my favoorite jam song is John Hardy, got inspired on that one from a youtube of Doc and Earl


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Good call, having documentation can only help. Also, it illustrates how you are organized, legitimate, and worth being taken seriously.


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## spraymonster (Dec 25, 2009)

maybe you should have put some of that recipe in the pump lol.glad to hear you are back up and running hope all stays well


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