# SW industrial vs breakthrough for metal repaint



## AGpainting (Feb 24, 2015)

so im painting some commercial trim that is all metal (i think iron, not too sure) that have been previously painting in what looks like a high gloss enamel.

what would be the better bet: SW dtm industrial, SW alkyd urethane industrial, or the just breakthrough? or, if you guys have any other suggestions, i would love to hear them. 

thanks.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

AGpainting said:


> so im painting some *commercial trim* that is all metal (*i think iron, not too sure*) that have been previously painting in what looks like a high gloss enamel.
> 
> what would be the better bet: SW dtm industrial, SW alkyd urethane industrial, or the just breakthrough? or, if you guys have any other suggestions, i would love to hear them.
> 
> thanks.


Huh why are you asking here on the interwebs? What does your spec sheet say? Do you have a spec sheet? Consult with your local [insert approved company] paint rep and have him write you one if not.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

DTM will cover better. Breakthrough is a little thin. I wouold just use a waterborne DTM myself, and I'd get it from PPG instead of SW.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Neither. Or none.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Huh why are you asking here on the interwebs? What does your spec sheet say? Do you have a spec sheet? Consult with your local [insert approved company] paint rep and have him write you one if not.


Hey now... be careful what you advise. If everyone who posts questions here was to do a few minutes of research beforehand, this whole forum would crash and burn.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

RH said:


> Hey now... be careful what you advise. If everyone who posts questions here was to do a few minutes of research beforehand, this whole forum would crash and burn.


Yes 100% you are right "its the circle of life" :vs_music:. I only meant that its a commercial job so somewhere up the pipeline there is probably a spec sheet on which type and manufacturer of products to be used.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Yes 100% you are right "its the circle of life" :vs_music:. I only meant that its a commercial job so somewhere up the pipeline there is probably a spec sheet on which type and manufacturer of products to be used.


only if its ground up. Its obviously a repaint, so there probably arent architects giving specs.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Woodco said:


> only if its ground up. Its obviously a repaint, so there probably arent architects giving specs.


OK but the specs were already given, maybe paper work is lost over time who knows. If you don't know the previous coatings then you would be wise figure that out and repaint with something compatible! Guessing at which product to repaint with is a recipe for disaster which OP is on the hook for any product failure.


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## AGpainting (Feb 24, 2015)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Huh why are you asking here on the interwebs? What does your spec sheet say? Do you have a spec sheet? Consult with your local [insert approved company] paint rep and have him write you one if not.


its a remodeling project, so not a new construction. the maintenance company that im getting the contracts from was supplying me with SW dtm industrial on previous jobs, but i had varying levels of success with it (i.e. paint would chip/peel and generally not adhere well).

i talked to several sales reps about it an they recommended a number of products of which i will go with either of 3 i listed here. 

sales reps obviously are not the greatest sources of realistic advice on this subject, thats why i thought i would ask here to see if actual painters have real experience with this... but i guess some of you guys are just interested in being condescending...

im just going to trial and error with all 3.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> OK but the specs were already given, maybe paper work is lost over time who knows. If you don't know the previous coatings then you would be wise figure that out and repaint with something compatible! Guessing at which product to repaint with is a recipe for disaster which OP is on the hook for any product failure.


Its no different than a residential. Either it was originally painted with oil or latex. Either way, DTM will stick with a sanding. Half the time, they dont even use DTM, and just use regular latex anyway, and rattle can some stain blocker if any rust spots show through. We're talking metal door jambs, not machinery. Its not that big a deal.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Woodco said:


> Its no different than a residential. Either it was originally painted with oil or latex. Either way, DTM will stick with a sanding. Half the time, they dont even use DTM, and just use regular latex anyway, and rattle can some stain blocker if any rust spots show through. We're talking metal door jambs, not machinery. Its not that big a deal.


Probably lost in the ocean of posts here but there was a thread not too long ago where an acrylic dtm over several layers of oil caused a coating to fail on metal substrate. If I recall the consensus was due to surface tension issues.

Just saying that throwing a new coating over whatever without any due diligence to figure out what was previously used is not the best course of action.


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## gregplus (Jun 11, 2013)

Breaktrough is reliable one.


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## Center_line_Painting (Jun 4, 2017)

I'm siding a bit with cocomonkeynuts 
You gotta investigate what you're working with. 

Product wise...in general with non rusty metals... I lean towards PPG industrial DTM and Shercry. Color is a factor too.


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## Tprice2193 (Oct 3, 2017)

Cocomonkeynuts - I believe that post you are referring too was oil over galvanized. Subsequently coated with Acrylic DTM that "pulled" the oil off the galvanized. There was primarily an issue of saponification. I maybe wrong but that is how I remember it.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

If in doubt..sand, bonding primer and paint. KISS.


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## CK_68847 (Apr 17, 2010)

Woodco said:


> DTM will cover better. Breakthrough is a little thin. I wouold just use a waterborne DTM myself, and I'd get it from PPG instead of SW.


Breakthrough is a junk paint in my opinion. If it’s a dark color it has horrible coverage and wants to run if you spray it. The same goes for the Ppg dtm acrylic. It will look great for the first five to ten minutes when it’s sprayed and you come back later it’s sagging. Sherwin Williams is by far superior.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

You have a problem with acrylic DTM sagging? I dont get that one.


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## ParamountPaint (Aug 25, 2016)

I've sprayed thousands of gallons of Pitt Tech DTM and I haven't had a problem to speak of.

Sure, you can get some runs if you are sloppy with gun and pressure control.


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## CK_68847 (Apr 17, 2010)

Woodco said:


> You have a problem with acrylic DTM sagging? I dont get that one.


Yea it’s junk. I used it on metal door frames inside on an interior job. The temperature was probably 55-60 degrees. It looked perfect for 10 minutes like I said. It would never set up and start sagging. They went white and i primed them with a nice coat of white oil because some of them were rusted because I don’t trust dtm latex to control rust very well unless it’s a Tnemic product. It’s not like I was trying to coat them too heavy. I’ve sprayed a ton of objects and products in my day. We have 75 painters who work for us and I’ve heard complaints from enough of our painters of similar things happening with this paint. I have never had the issue with SW or diamond Vogel with their similar product line. 

I prefer to use oil in the first place because it holds up much better. This job was speced for latex, so I decided to use it. I have sprayed sherwin dtm alkyd in temps where I could see my breath and it didn’t run. That paint will never run and is the best spraying. As a side note, we buy more paint from Ppg but the overall product line at sherwin is better. The breakthrough, dtm latex. Speedhide semi gloss, precat expoxies, and speedhide alkyd all leave a lot to be desired. The crossovers from sherwin are much better. The good thing about Ppg is that they have added Glidden, and they have some solid products.


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## Mr Smith (Mar 11, 2016)

CK_68847 said:


> Yea it’s junk. I used it on metal door frames inside on an interior job. The temperature was probably 55-60 degrees. It looked perfect for 10 minutes like I said. It would never set up and start sagging. They went white and i primed them with a nice coat of white oil because some of them were rusted because I don’t trust dtm latex to control rust very well unless it’s a Tnemic product. It’s not like I was trying to coat them too heavy. I’ve sprayed a ton of objects and products in my day. We have 75 painters who work for us and I’ve heard complaints from enough of our painters of similar things happening with this paint. I have never had the issue with SW or diamond Vogel with their similar product line.
> 
> I prefer to use oil in the first place because it holds up much better. This job was speced for latex, so I decided to use it. I have sprayed sherwin dtm alkyd in temps where I could see my breath and it didn’t run. That paint will never run and is the best spraying. As a side note, we buy more paint from Ppg but the overall product line at sherwin is better. The breakthrough, dtm latex. Speedhide semi gloss, precat expoxies, and speedhide alkyd all leave a lot to be desired. The crossovers from sherwin are much better. The good thing about Ppg is that they have added Glidden, and they have some solid products.


What don't you like about Breakthrough? Other than the big price tag, it's OK for exterior doors if you need a quick dry coating. I can't say how it holds up or how hard the finish is. I've only used it once without a complaint so far.

How do you keep 75 painters busy? What kind of work are you doing?


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## CK_68847 (Apr 17, 2010)

Mr Smith said:


> CK_68847 said:
> 
> 
> > Yea it’s junk. I used it on metal door frames inside on an interior job. The temperature was probably 55-60 degrees. It looked perfect for 10 minutes like I said. It would never set up and start sagging. They went white and i primed them with a nice coat of white oil because some of them were rusted because I don’t trust dtm latex to control rust very well unless it’s a Tnemic product. It’s not like I was trying to coat them too heavy. I’ve sprayed a ton of objects and products in my day. We have 75 painters who work for us and I’ve heard complaints from enough of our painters of similar things happening with this paint. I have never had the issue with SW or diamond Vogel with their similar product line.
> ...


We do mainly medium to big commercial projects. The problem we have had with breakthrough is with their dark colors. Of recent, we had some black and red doors, and it was basically water and had no coverage. Solo from SW was superb. It covered great like it always does. I will say the advantage 900 is a very solid paint from Porter. It doesn’t dry down as fast as solo but it leaves a better finish if you’re looking for a nice consistent gloss finish. I would use it on high end housing projects.


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## Mr Smith (Mar 11, 2016)

Maybe I should try Solo for the trim & doors of an upcoming interior job.


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## Tprice2193 (Oct 3, 2017)

My experience with Solo is that it does not level well at all.


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## Mr Smith (Mar 11, 2016)

Tprice2193 said:


> My experience with Solo is that it does not level well at all.


How does it spray? I remember a painter in here who used to use Solo for new housing. He's the guy who also used the Hinge magnets. I think his wife started The Blogging Painters.


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## Tprice2193 (Oct 3, 2017)

I have not sprayed it...I still have the gallon left, SG. It flowed our so poorly with a brush that I didn't bother testing it further. Next time I am trying things I will test it. By the way it has a crystaline sheen to it.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

I wonder, does BM carry a DTM? How would that compare? And sorry if that's off topic.


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## ParamountPaint (Aug 25, 2016)

finishesbykevyn said:


> I wonder, does BM carry a DTM? How would that compare? And sorry if that's off topic.


There is a Super Spec Alkyd DTM that I have used. Supposedly, it is the same as the old Ironclad.

I didn't have any complaints.


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## CK_68847 (Apr 17, 2010)

Mr Smith said:


> Tprice2193 said:
> 
> 
> > My experience with Solo is that it does not level well at all.
> ...


It sprays great. I just did around 400 doors on a job in some cool temps. I sprayed a nice coat and never had any sags. Cool temps meaning around 60 degrees.


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