# Cellular PVC trim: bonding primer necessary?



## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

I know what azek's data sheet says. 100% acrylic topcoat in an acceptable lrv is all you need. 

Real life experience?

Id like to reprime the preprimed wood jamb anyways. The fiberglass door was installed a few months ago but hasn't been top coated yet. 

Stix and uma have long recoat times which may throw a wrench into same day paint with breakthrough/msa.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

Picture?


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## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

Not on me. It's a therma tru prehung fiberglass door. Instead of wood casing it was cased out in azek 1x. 

But the prehung jamb is preprimed wood....assuming some sort of pine/hem/fir. It does have the rot resistance lower jambs. I saw the stamp when I looked at it.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

Well, sight unseen, id probably reprime the wood with whatever your favorite wood primer is...I'd go with 123 or bomb can with cs depending on temps and how quickly I need it to dry. I wouldn't want cs necessarily as it'd likely be more brittle but it's better than the crap they preprime with. If temps are favorable wb is the way to go. The door and case prime? maybe not so much...textured, probably not. Smooth, maybe, Uma would be my goto. I don't have experience (yet) with bt but from what I've seen and heard you can probably just go straight over that fiberglass with no prob.likely the same with msa. Check the tds for surface prep. Probably wipe down with lacquer thinner or denatured to clean it and get it dried quickly. Those are best guesses from my couch. depending on a few factors,textured or smooth, I might just go with duration or resilience and bypass the prime. I think the same holds true for bt? Both products have a serious bite. And a 1 day project is likely with either. I would also pull the weatherstripping, give it a couple of days and reinstall it. If that's too much a pita. A hairdryer/ heatgun around the edges is helpful....have fun.


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## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

Yea it's smooth fiberglass and well, I guess azek is considered smooth. 

I always use denatured where I can, gets rid of the oils and such without softening smudging the plastic. Doesn't leave a residue. 

I figured on a clean, scuff, clean on everything without having to mention it.


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## ParamountPaint (Aug 25, 2016)

I haven't had any issues painting AZEK with regular acrylic topcoats. Azek says to do so, therefore I do so.

Pre-primed door jambs are primed with white mud or something. I'd re-prime them with something else (123 or Sealgrip), just because they soak up paint like none other, leading to dragging.

Therma-Trus will paint just fine. Clean it up with something first.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Those preprimed jambs still peel like crazy. Tried priming with oil (BM 094, PeelBond, Maddog, whatever). Nothing saves that garbage.


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## ParamountPaint (Aug 25, 2016)

What do you suppose they use on this pre-primed stuff? Some of it looks to be 1/8" thick or so. I'd almost suspect it was the cheapest flat interior paint out there, sprayed on really thick.


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

DeanV said:


> Those preprimed jambs still peel like crazy. Tried priming with oil (BM 094, PeelBond, Maddog, whatever). Nothing saves that garbage.


Very true. We sand it off and oil prime. Otherwise it's just good over bad.


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

ParamountPaint said:


> What do you suppose they use on this pre-primed stuff? Some of it looks to be 1/8" thick or so. I'd almost suspect it was the cheapest flat interior paint out there, sprayed on really thick.


The cheapest, fastest drying stuff available at the moment. It's not meant to be a "primer". It's to maintain stability in storage and transport because most new wood is sappy junk.


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

sayn3ver said:


> I know what azek's data sheet says. 100% acrylic topcoat in an acceptable lrv is all you need.
> 
> Real life experience?
> 
> ...


We've never had a problem with BM Aura or Regal select sticking to azek.


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## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

So to do it right I should make it a two trip or two day job and prep and tackle the jamb properly, charge accordingly.

If that's the case, I might as well use a bonding primer on the jambs and azek? If I'll be returning to topcoat then it doesn't matter.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

sayn3ver said:


> So to do it right I should make it a two trip or two day job and prep and tackle the jamb properly, charge accordingly.
> 
> If that's the case, I might as well use a bonding primer on the jambs and azek? If I'll be returning to topcoat then it doesn't matter.


I don't think so...you should be able to get it done in a day (depending on color I guess) and just swing back over to reinstall weather stripping is what I'd do... unless you use a long dry oil on the jamb. Don't know why ya would though, I doubt it's cedar...probably fir or pine. Both of which you can use 123 and a heat gun on.


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## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

Good call. I'll break the heat gun out If I have too. I'll just sand an reprime the jambs. 

Is there a recommended exterior filler? I can't get any of the recommended fancier two part epoxy fillers on short notice to touch up the woos jamp. I was thinking in a pinch i could use plastic wood and heat gun it. 

Ive seen bondo fail so that's out as far as I am concerned.


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## ParamountPaint (Aug 25, 2016)

Bondo is way overkill for finish nail holes. If you hate on it that much, use some old school water putty. Vinyl spackle will work just as well, as will red devil one time (which is my personal favorite spackle).

Regular durabond would be about as much trouble as I'd be willing to endure for a couple nail holes on a door jamb.


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

sayn3ver said:


> Good call. I'll break the heat gun out If I have too. I'll just sand an reprime the jambs.
> 
> Is there a recommended exterior filler? I can't get any of the recommended fancier two part epoxy fillers on short notice to touch up the woos jamp. I was thinking in a pinch i could use plastic wood and heat gun it.
> 
> Ive seen bondo fail so that's out as far as I am concerned.


MH Ready patch for nail holes


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## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

No, no nail holes. just some dings and dents in the wood jamb. Azek was screwed and plugged with the cortex system.


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## ParamountPaint (Aug 25, 2016)

A little bit of a tangent, but the Cortex plugs are somewhat of a beeatch in azek. They are very hard to hold on to and wack into the hole, and keep the embossed grain oriented correctly. I've also found that the bits that they provide in the kit are garbage. You're much better off, IMO, to drill a 3/16 pilot hole and then do the thing. They provide these bits with a foam cushion, which tends to work for about 1/3 of the fasteners in the box. It may be slightly more effort, but I'm pre-drilling all of the holes moving forward. Drilling and plugging is tremendously time-intensive anyway, so what's another 10% or so.

It also may be that I haven't done enough to find the "trick."


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## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

I was just looking at painting it. I know they were the cortex plugs but not much experience installing.

For the record, some of the grip rite composite deck screws share the same size head as the coretx screws....just incase you need longer fasteners. I think up to the 3" or the 3 1/2" are the same size head.

Nothing like trying to fasten 5/4 azek and catch a stud on older houses with the 1/2" asphalt fiber board over 1x horizontal strapping. It's like let's get out the fasten master timber screws....to hell with the aesthetics.


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## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

Back from the dead. 

A tangent of a question. 
Has anyone used cabinet coat over azek? I know azek specs 100% acrylic. 

Got a job where they are using azek in the bathroom. Have the connecting bedroom to do too and was gonna try out cabinet coat finally on that. But if I need a different product for the azek I'll just use something else that's proven.


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