# stain 7 buildings



## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

Got the guys powerwashing this place today. It had TWP OIL six years ago. Summer camp for city kids to come an experience the great outdoors. Just giving a rinse with p-washer and then 2 coats wet on wet. Some mild bleaching on certain deck areas. 8 buildings total, four decent/large size and four smallish storage sheds. 

Tips tricks advice? Been almost a decade since I stained anything. Thinking spray most of it, decks spindles lattice work everything. Maybe a 413 tip or so? Run 24" film or 12" paper around perimeters? Is backbrushing/rolling even necessary? A lot of it looks pretty thirsty... it'll soak in b4 u can even get a brush on it.


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)




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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

I think back-rolling that vertical siding would be beneficial for sure, given the condition. 
As for the decks, I always back-roll em. Although I know many painters who say they have adequate results with just spraying the stain, I think back-rolling high-traffic areas like decks gives em a fighting chance to last a few years. JMO. 


Stelzer Painting Inc.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> I think back-rolling that vertical siding would be beneficial for sure, given the condition.
> As for the decks, I always back-roll em. Although I know many painters who say they have adequate results with just spraying the stain, I think back-rolling high-traffic areas like decks gives em a fighting chance to last a few years. JMO.
> 
> 
> Stelzer Painting Inc.


Most likely the new stain manufacturer's instructions would recommend a stripped surface or there is a moderate risk of failure. But if you don't do that...I think some of the siding there would benefit from BM restore with an even wash, and BM Brighten with even high pressure rinse then a low pressure rinse top to bottom to rinse chems and wood debris off windows and siding.. High pressure does not work to rinse down chems, it only pushes chems and debris around slightly..

I think mostly everything there should be back brushed not backrolled. Contrary to untrained belief, rolling does not do the wood cells any justice, it aerates the product and rolls across surface instead of pushing product across. Product designers and reps teach that. Brushing with proper amount of product sprayed on and loaded in your 6" stainer brush will create that penetration and leave enough wetness for a good coat. If you see dryish spots in rough surface soon after spray/brushing, you might need a little more product on, it should look evenly wet for some time. You can't add much product by over brushing, need to saturate with gun first.
The board and batton vertical siding is easy to do with a 2-4' or 4-8' pole with brush clip and 6" stainer brush... long strokes to finish.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

Also if the pickets aren't too splintery or rough a stain mitt works awesome, cheese cloth works more awesome to stain those rails from up on the deck all at once and no or little as spray/brush. I just used a stain mitt (can leave some fuzz though) and cheese cloth to stain deck railings 95%, just top rail got brushed out nice. Product used - Sikkens DEK.


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

The BM Restore is basically your average exterior wood prep product? Bleach more or less?

We are putting the same stain on now as was put 6 years ago. Oil based TWP 100, in Cedartone. Does the fact that the product is the same generate any lee-way in regards to prep? From what I can see, the salesman just figured a light pressurewash, with no stripping etc. The customer is aware that the water stains most likely will still be there. Most areas are quite dry and the grain is open. Very very few spots where the stain is still "intact". Like I said, I suspect it'll soak right in.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

bryceraisanen said:


> The BM Restore is basically your average exterior wood prep product? Bleach more or less?
> 
> We are putting the same stain on now as was put 6 years ago. Oil based TWP 100, in Cedartone. Does the fact that the product is the same generate any lee-way in regards to prep? From what I can see, the salesman just figured a light pressurewash, with no stripping etc. The customer is aware that the water stains most likely will still be there. Most areas are quite dry and the grain is open. Very very few spots where the stain is still "intact". Like I said, I suspect it'll soak right in.


BM chemists say restore is a toned down deck stripper, but it will revive the frayed wood fibers causd by uv decay. Magnified, a weathered or decayed surface looks very frayed like carpet, which doesn't create a sound coating. A newer surface, especially sanded looks solid so the product creates very good cohesive bond..
The restore will get rid of most grey and stained areas, brightener will top it off to look great.
Bleach is bad to use on wood because it stays in wood cells and weakens them. I have used it, but learned not to. We switched to BM Clean even though it's more expensive.


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## kmp (Jan 30, 2011)

You really need to backroll that siding to push the stain in the wood and then spray it again. That wood is a sponge and just spraying it will not be as effective, even with multiple spray coats. With that batten board type of siding a 9" roller sometimes is to big to fit in between the battens and you need a weenie roller. Weenie rollers also have a lot less spatter and drool.Back roll from the bottom up to keep the mess to a minimum. I hate oil base anything but around her a summer isn't a summer without 80-100 gallons of oil stain. Hate it but it works.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

bryceraisanen said:


> The BM Restore is basically your average exterior wood prep product? Bleach more or less?
> 
> We are putting the same stain on now as was put 6 years ago. Oil based TWP 100, in Cedartone. Does the fact that the product is the same generate any lee-way in regards to prep? From what I can see, the salesman just figured a light pressurewash, with no stripping etc. The customer is aware that the water stains most likely will still be there. Most areas are quite dry and the grain is open. Very very few spots where the stain is still "intact". Like I said, I suspect it'll soak right in.


I've been using that product quite a bit this summer. I would give it a light wash/scrub, and a wash with oxylic acid in damaged areas with another rinse. 

I'm always weary about doing stain, but you'll definitely need to back roll/brush it.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

kmp said:


> You really need to backroll that siding to push the stain in the wood and then spray it again. That wood is a sponge and just spraying it will not be as effective, even with multiple spray coats. With that batten board type of siding a 9" roller sometimes is to big to fit in between the battens and you need a weenie roller. Weenie rollers also have a lot less spatter and drool.Back roll from the bottom up to keep the mess to a minimum. I hate oil base anything but around her a summer isn't a summer without 80-100 gallons of oil stain. Hate it but it works.


One has to saturate the wood with gun in the first place in order to make brushing effortless. Shouldn't have to brush (or roll) same spot trying to make it wet. Sprayer does that. Wood is a sponge, saturate it.

No offense but rolling is the incorrect method for these types of products. 
Here's some info from a stain certification course I took, taught by BM product engineer/chemist.
Bryce, I know your siding doesn't require sanding, but first pic represents other aspects like decks.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

ingore


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

I did a test patch to confirm my suspicions that the slightly grey areas r gonna look like sh!t if I stain over them. It is not a ton of it, would any of u consider just zipping over it with a palm sander? Or does it have to be stripped and brightened completely?


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

My guess would be that the grey areas are places where the previous sealer has pretty much worn off completely, allowing the wood to turn grey. 

I doubt sanding it would be the easiest way to fix it, but it probably doesn't need a complete strip either. Too bad you didn't use a brighter for the initial wash. I suspect that would have helped a lot.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

bryceraisanen said:


> View attachment 25841
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The dark areas is a combo of mildew deep in the wood and destroyed preservative. Could have used the restore and brightener. I am assuming your guys used enough cleaner strength.. if they didn't then, stronger cleaner solution and brightener at minimum.

If you sand that it will have bright and dark spots until it's all sanded to new wood, which is way too much labor and materials.


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

Can you tell where the previous days test patch is? Cabot wood cleaner and cabot wood brightener at work here. Only gonna do the high traffic areas as cost outweighs beauty on this job.


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

This was the test patch I did yesterday.

What cleaners and brighteners are the most effective/fastest? this took a lot of both along with scrubbing and high and low pressure washes. A really slow thorough high pressure wash at that!!


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

First option instead of cleaner would be "restore". If not that then the cleaner of choice for our jobs is BM "clean". Another product used is "30 second cleaner", less diluted it is aggressive. One company I worked for had us using it full strength as a stripper for surfaces like that but we kept getting chemical burn on our hands and face on overhead surfaces. We kept taking turns applying while the first guy rinsed his hands and face.
.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

The clean area is looking good btw.


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

ridesarize said:


> The clean area is looking good btw.


I figger it looks real perfeshionnel ubetchya.


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

If you have a pressure washer that can inject chemicals, and you don't want to do a 2 step stripper/brightener the Gemini Safestrip is decent. It is very mild, and really only works on weathered semi-transparent stains. If you are wanting to do a full restoration type strip it usually isn't enough, but for a situation like this it would have been perfect. You can also run it through a pump sprayer but it just takes longer.


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## CRS (Apr 13, 2013)

*Staining exterior wood*

There are two factors that determine the ultimate performance of exterior wood finishes;

Surface Prep. 
Product level applied.

Cleaning wood entirely of mold & mildew. Most commonly done with a Sodium Percarbonate Sodium Metasilicate blend, pressure washed then neutralized with an acid rinse.

Reaching the saturation point of the wood. Every job is different, requiring different levels of finish depending on the wood porosity. There is no formula...i.e. 2 wet on wet, 1 wet 1 dry etc.

I have been around the wood restoration business since 1979, pretty well seen it all. My background in coatings chemistry has always been helpful.

Feel free to contact me; [email protected]


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

CRS said:


> There are two factors that determine the ultimate performance of exterior wood finishes;
> 
> Surface Prep.
> Product level applied.
> ...


So oxalic acid as in SW Deckscapes revive wont cut it? Customer looking for what they call a 'maintenance coat' and not a full blown resto...


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## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

CRS said:


> There are two factors that determine the ultimate performance of exterior wood finishes;
> 
> Surface Prep.
> Product level applied.
> ...


Let's not forget. Dry wood is happy wood. I see so many guys today powerwash soak the hell out of the house and start painting the next day. Some we have seen the same day ask me how many guys ask me what's a moisture meter for:yes:


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

Yeap! Lol fwiw yesterday I powerwashed stripped and brightened two sides of one of the buildings on this job. Its cedar half log siding. Checked it with my moisture meter this morning at 8 am. Nearly everything was 10% with one spot that was 18% (limit for Sikkens). I checked pry 50 spots. It was the east and south wall, and it was pure sunshine yesterday. Didn't put stain on today (cause I didn't want to look hackish) but I think it would have been fine if I did.

Soo today. Worked on the main lodge, maybe got about 1/3 of it washed and brightened. Although generally it looks a heck of a lot better, I am not ecstatic about the power of oxalic acid. I used sherwins revive, bm brighten, and cabot brightener. They are all oxalic acid, with only bm brighten having a bit of citric acid and alcohol. There were several stubborn areas that i treated, scrubbed, and powerwashed 4 times and they are still darker than I would like them to be....

I was putting on the acid and scrubbing, and my helper was powerwashing with me taking the wand periodically to give him a breather. Do you guys regularly go through 17 gallons of brightener in a day? Generally speaking, I have been using a lot more than I would have originally guessed. So this morning I went to SW and bought every jug of Revive that they had, figuring I would be returning some after the job is done. Well sh!t the bed, I used em all up, and we only got 1/3 of the building!


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

Today


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Cool man, I like doing projects like that sometimes. It's kinda nice to make old grey wood look new again. 

I've used a lot of the BM brightener. Your right, it's not super powerful. I don't think it does much of anything to previous coatings, nor does to do much for mildew. But for getting the grey out and freshening up the wood, especially cedar, it's great. You can't really get that look with bleach. 

Are you diluting the brightener? How are you applying it?


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

bryceraisanen said:


> Today


You got em rain gear!
What a guy!
IMO you send a powerwasher to a job raingear should go with it. In my experience it doesn't. Thanx Bryce. For ur guys. A little thing like that. What? $50 bucks maybe. Goes a long way.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

Oden said:


> You got em rain gear!
> What a guy!
> IMO you send a powerwasher to a job raingear should go with it. In my experience it doesn't. Thanx Bryce. For ur guys. A little thing like that. What? $50 bucks maybe. Goes a long way.


Always had to buy my own rain gear, and when I had a new guy helping me one time I took him to the hardware store and bought him rain gear out of my own pocket.
I'm an employee and usually I have to buy everything on my own except drops and pumps. But I end up getting those things too as it helps the jobs go better. I have bought my own poles, rollers, brushes, harness, rope/rope grab, step ladders, ext cords, staplers, saws, drywall tools, t-square, full face resp, spray hinges, ratchet straps, buckets, planks, ladder jacks, roof jacks, everything.
Always purchased and upkept my own personal van too, as employee.

If I don't get that stuff nothing gets done.


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

Jmayspaint said:


> Cool man, I like doing projects like that sometimes. It's kinda nice to make old grey wood look new again.
> 
> I've used a lot of the BM brightener. Your right, it's not super powerful. I don't think it does much of anything to previous coatings, nor does to do much for mildew. But for getting the grey out and freshening up the wood, especially cedar, it's great. You can't really get that look with bleach.
> 
> Are you diluting the brightener? How are you applying it?


Putting it on full strength (SW Revive) with one of those heavy duty red hudson sprayers that concrete guys use for sealing.


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

Yeap. Actually two sets of rain gear. That way he got to have a new dry set for after lunch. And not the cheap plastic crap that's sweatier than all get out. This is top of the line breathable fishing apparel from Cabelas. NOT $50!!!!!!!!!! Dunno where the gloves went....


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

This is my pressure washer. Does this look like a downstreaming candidate to you guys? If so, I imagine I could save a lot of time, materials, money, etc. Basically one guy could do it and it would be easier to keep everything wet. When we're working, I keep having to run around and remist everything constantly so that it doesn't dry out.


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

I'm no expert on pressure washers, so I'll wait for ken or dave to chime in, but that blue square thing above the line out on the pump looks like an injector to me. Probably worked at one point. 

I bet if you take it to a shop and have them put a new unloader on (black knob thing) you could use a standalone injector. Unless it is cursed like my Simpson was.


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

Based on what I'm finding on youtube, almost any real pressure washer is a candidate for downstreaming. All it requires is a barbed T and an intake hose, along with the right tip sizes. As far as hardware goes. Now the "know how" might be a different story....


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

How to remove stain from rocks?


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## oldccm (Jan 23, 2013)

Power wash or flip stones around if still noticeable?


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

Hmmmm... im tempted to try brushing on some stain stripper.... the stones r not flippable, they pry weigh 200 plus pounds apiece, plus the flower bed would fall apart.


On the bright side, finally just finished staining these 7 beasts. Wow it feels good!


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

bryceraisanen said:


> View attachment 26361
> 
> 
> How to remove stain from rocks?


Lacquer thinner works if you get to it quick enough. A stiff nylon scrub brush doesn't scratch the rocks much. Probably little late to make them disappear, but could be an improvement.


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

Theyre two weeks old


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

Maybe just stain the rocks?


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

Hines Painting said:


> Maybe just stain the rocks?


Nice troll


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Yes your pump is fine. Now get to downstreaming and stop washing the hard way.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

Hines Painting said:


> Maybe just stain the rocks?


To late, they already are stained


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

I don't like my chances of getting that off of the rocks. Do I think someone will catch it? If Yeh. Maybe a ad lib faux job. Dab some watered down flat grey and maybe even some white then the grey on top of it. Black then grey maybe. Something. Fade it in before someone sees it.

They also got. Them rattle cans. They sell em at the homemdepot for sure. It's kind of a polymix in a can. Looks like rock. Match it up and psst. Psst.. Touch em up.

Always best before it has been called out. Them kind of fixes. And they may never catch it


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

bryceraisanen said:


> Nice troll



I wasn't trolling, I was being serious. 

You might be able to clean them off with some sodium hydroxide (NaOH, deck stripper) but its no guarantee. It would be much easier to just fully stain them. It will wear off after a few years and hardly anyone will notice, probably. Will most likely just look like red dirt stained them.


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

Deck stripper worked good. Soaked it for bout half hour n it just dissolved nicely!


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