# Paint recommendation



## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

I don't do cabinets on a frequent basis, so I am asking for any recommendations on what paint to use on these:









They are metal upper and lower and appear to be original from the mid 1960s. They are painted, but are yellowing. The client wants the doors and face frames painted and wants Benjamin Moore paint. I plan on cleaning and scuf sanding the areas that are to be painted, then paint them in place applying 2 coats of whatever paint using brush and either one of these rollers (both in 1/4" nap) for the large areas:






Purdy WhiteDove Wire Mini Roller | SherwinWilliams







www.sherwin-williams.com










Contractor Series® White Woven Mini Rollers 2 pack - Sherwin-Williams


Contractor Series® White Woven mini rollers leave a smooth flawless finish.




www.sherwin-williams.com





I have used and liked Advance in the past because of the open time to keep a wet edge, but none of the areas here seem to be big enough that that would be a concern. Is there a better, harder paint from BM that would work better than Advance for brushing and rolling? The client is in her 70s and lives alone, so I don't see her banging up the cabinets too much. If there is a paint that you think is better than any of the BM paints I might be able to convince her to go that way. I have used Rustoleum Gloss White on a large metal bathroom vanity last year and that came out very nice, but it certainly has an odor (even thought the owner will not be living in the unit when we paint there)! Any thoughts?

futtyos


----------



## monarchski (Jun 21, 2019)

futtyos said:


> I don't do cabinets on a frequent basis, so I am asking for any recommendations on what paint to use on these:
> View attachment 112020
> 
> 
> ...


Why not just use Satin Impervo? Hard to find a better brushing/rolling product.


----------



## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

I would just use advance or scuff-x. Did you check to see if the existing paint is oil? Maybe a coat of Stix first.


----------



## Masterwork (Sep 13, 2020)

Have you considered priming with Gardz?


----------



## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Masterwork said:


> Have you considered priming with Gardz?


I’m sure it didn’t occur to him but that he will appreciate the suggestion.


----------



## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

futtyos said:


> I don't do cabinets on a frequent basis, so I am asking for any recommendations on what paint to use on these:
> 
> They are metal upper and lower and appear to be original from the mid 1960s. They are painted, but are yellowing. The client wants the doors and face frames painted and wants Benjamin Moore paint. I plan on cleaning and scuf sanding the areas that are to be painted, then paint them in place applying 2 coats of whatever paint using brush and either one of these rollers (both in 1/4" nap) for the large areas:
> 
> ...


Impervo or Cabinetcoat


----------



## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Unless that was an exclusive customer, I would avoid killing myself with a straight up Alkyd. I would go with Advance with a gentle breeze providing adequate solvent evaporation and ventilation. They'd be lucky not settling on KM Durapoxy based on the looks of that ceiling, and just the general confined mood of the kitchen design.


----------



## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Impervo or Cabinetcoat


Coco, your reply sends me back 30 years or so. Back in the 1980s I mostly used Satin Impervo for trim painting. One day I walked into Northbrook Paint & Glass and looked around a bit when I came across a piece of wood about 12" long, 4" wide and 3/4" thick. One half was white white SG and the other half was white SG on its way to yellowing. I asked one of the knowledgeable clerks about this. He said the the yellowing side was Satin Impervo and the white white side was Muralo Ultra Ceramic. That is when I changed my go-to trim paint to Muralo. One benefit I found using Mural vs Satin Impervo was that it took less beers to come down at the end of the day with water bourne vs oil! 

I had many happy experiences using Muralo Ultra Ceramic until I stopped painting. During my years of non-painting I still had occasion to do some painting while doing foreclosure maintenance. On one job I had to repair the side of a cabinet and paint it. I used Muralo and a mini roller. My partner said it looked just like the rest of the cabinets, like it has been sprayed.

I have a paint store down the street from me where I now live that stocks California Ultra Ceramic in matte, eggshell, satin and semi-gloss. The help at this paint store speaks of these California paints in hushed tones and as being very special and rare. At 70+ per gallon I can understand this. 

Here at Paint Talk I read PACman's comments that California's UltraPlate is even better for cabinets than the Ultra Ceramic. I just contacted ICP about UltraPlate and was told that a local paint dealer I live near can order it. I think that my current job proposal requires an estimate using either of the 2 below mentioned paints.

I am wondering what the difference is between INSLX Cabinet Coat and California Ultra Ceramic is as far as using on previously painted metal kitchen cabinets.

Right now I am having a couple of toots while thinking about working for another contractor yesterday and today. He uses almost exclusively BM paints. He had me cutting in walls in 3 bathrooms in a medium gray Regal Select Pearl. I started cutting in with an Arroworthy Rembrandt 2 1/2" angle oval sash because I have found them to cut in very sharply due to the stiffness of the bristles. After a while I found that the Rembrandt was dragging the paint off of previously painted areas. This freaked me out as I was trying to "one coat" the cut-ins to save on my friend's labor. I switched over to a 1 1/2" Wooster sash from HD and things went much more smoothly as far as hiding.

I could go on and on about what product to apply with what tools in what wheather and humidity and surface porousness and so on. I guess I am a bit goofy about doing a perfect job.

futtyos


----------



## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

futtyos said:


> INSLX


As much as I like cabinetcoat I dont believe its the end all of waterborne paints, I will say that as a novice with a brush its the only paints Ive gotten to lay out like glass out of the can. That said oil paints offer so much more than waterborne, especially those that use oil pigments instead of universal. I'm a big fan of oil. I dont have california paints to compare to, but I can definitely say I like it better than C2 and emerald urethane.
FPE is incredible if you ever get to use it, I have a brushed sample in my shop and I frequently hear from pros that its unlike anything they've ever seen.


----------



## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

You can't get a better brush/roller friendly paint, then Advance in a waterborne. I wouldn't be using an oil paint in grandma's house. Although, painting the the doors in place is gonna be tricky. Can you remove for better access? If you you want more durability, go with the semi or high gloss..


----------



## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

futtyos said:


> Coco, your reply sends me back 30 years or so. Back in the 1980s I mostly used Satin Impervo for trim painting. One day I walked into Northbrook Paint & Glass and looked around a bit when I came across a piece of wood about 12" long, 4" wide and 3/4" thick. One half was white white SG and the other half was white SG on its way to yellowing. I asked one of the knowledgeable clerks about this. He said the the yellowing side was Satin Impervo and the white white side was Muralo Ultra Ceramic. That is when I changed my go-to trim paint to Muralo. One benefit I found using Mural vs Satin Impervo was that it took less beers to come down at the end of the day with water bourne vs oil!
> 
> I had many happy experiences using Muralo Ultra Ceramic until I stopped painting. During my years of non-painting I still had occasion to do some painting while doing foreclosure maintenance. On one job I had to repair the side of a cabinet and paint it. I used Muralo and a mini roller. My partner said it looked just like the rest of the cabinets, like it has been sprayed.
> 
> ...


If can get the Ultraplate use it. I do not do cabinets that often and brush and roll them when I do. The two paints that I use for cabinets are Ultraplate and Advance. The big advantages that Ultraplate has over Advance is a 4 hour recoat (might actually be even less) and I find it does not drip and sag as much. I do think that the Advance levels out a bitter better, but almost unnoticeable to the average home owner.


----------



## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

finishesbykevyn said:


> You can't get a better brush/roller friendly paint, then Advance in a waterborne. I wouldn't be using an oil paint in grandma's house. Although, painting the the doors in place is gonna be tricky. Can you remove for better access? If you you want more durability, go with the semi or high gloss..


Semi or high gloss might not be ideal for brush and roll, as it highlights imperfections. I think the higher sheens, when applied well, look great; may require more prep work and skill to pull off S/G or H/G sheens, they are less forgiving.

Lower sheens on trim are trending now (at least around here). I’ve had a lot of negative reactions when suggesting higher sheens this year- would recommend checking with client before proceeding.


----------



## cardgunner (Feb 29, 2016)

I've used these with advance on trim and on shelves and love the finish. However you have to(should) always end the stroke going the same way. 








Wooster Jumbo-Koter Red Feather Velour 4-1/2 in. W x 1/4 in. Mini Roller Cover 2 pk


RR311-4 1/2 ROLLR CVR RD FEATH 2PK Brand Name: Wooster Sub Brand: Red Feather Nap Material: Velour Width: 4-1/2 in. Nap Size: 1/4 in. Roller Type: Mini Product Type: Paint Roller Cover Number in Package: 2 pk Recommended Surface: Smooth Surfaces Packaging Type: Bagged Color: Red Core Diameter...




www.paintoutlets.com


----------



## Masterwork (Sep 13, 2020)

Holland said:


> Semi or high gloss might not be ideal for brush and roll, as it highlights imperfections. I think the higher sheens, when applied well, look great; may require more prep work and skill to pull off S/G or H/G sheens, they are less forgiving.
> 
> Lower sheens on trim are trending now (at least around here). I’ve had a lot of negative reactions when suggesting higher sheens this year- would recommend checking with client before proceeding.


For Kitchen cabinets? You're crazy. You need something easy to keep clean.


----------



## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Masterwork said:


> For Kitchen cabinets? You're crazy. You need something easy to keep clean.


Satin is the most popular trim around here by far. Did 3 kitchen cabinets this winter and they all requested Satin ( fully scrubbable).

High Gloss is tough to do well. Op said he is brushing and rolling cabinets "in place". I think that's asking for trouble.

edit: FWIW - liked using SW Pro Classic Hybrid Satin. It brush and rolled almost as well as spray.


----------



## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> As much as I like cabinetcoat I dont believe its the end all of waterborne paints, I will say that as a novice with a brush its the only paints Ive gotten to lay out like glass out of the can. That said oil paints offer so much more than waterborne, especially those that use oil pigments instead of universal. I'm a big fan of oil. I dont have california paints to compare to, but I can definitely say I like it better than C2 and emerald urethane.
> FPE is incredible if you ever get to use it, I have a brushed sample in my shop and I frequently hear from pros that its unlike anything they've ever seen.


Coco, I agree that FPE looks unbelievable, but it also smells unbelievably bad as well. My neighbor wanted to paint his front door with it. I did some research on both FPE and BM Grand Entrance. I was up at the local BM dealer and Will, the most knowledgeable clerk there, was showing a woman a quart of PFE. I stood by really close so I could hear all the blurb. Will was trying to sell the woman away from FPE considering how toxic and stinky its vapors are. He opened the quart up so she could smell it. I asked to smell it, too. I convince my neighbor to go with BM Grand Entrance @ 50 or 60 per quart. I set him up with all the tools for doing the prep work on his gloss black front door, but convinced him to let me brush and roll it. I put 3 coats of violet gloss on it and there was enough paint left for 3 more coats. After cutting in all the panels I was able to roll the flat areas from top to bottom, then tip all the flat areas off with the roller without pulling any drying paint. More open time than with Advance!


----------



## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

futtyos said:


> Coco, I agree that FPE looks unbelievable, but it also smells unbelievably bad as well. My neighbor wanted to paint his front door with it. I did some research on both FPE and BM Grand Entrance. I was up at the local BM dealer and Will, the most knowledgeable clerk there, was showing a woman a quart of PFE. I stood by really close so I could hear all the blurb. Will was trying to sell the woman away from FPE considering how toxic and stinky its vapors are. He opened the quart up so she could smell it. I asked to smell it, too. I convince my neighbor to go with BM Grand Entrance @ 50 or 60 per quart. I set him up with all the tools for doing the prep work on his gloss black front door, but convinced him to let me brush and roll it. I put 3 coats of violet gloss on it and there was enough paint left for 3 more coats. After cutting in all the panels I was able to roll the flat areas from top to bottom, then tip all the flat areas off with the roller without pulling any drying paint. More open time than with Advance!


Well hollandlac is an oil paint so it smells like oil, you should brush some out, its not nearly as toxic as say the old sikkens or some of these newer waterborne finishes that use super toxic solvents and catalysts. At least with oil I know what Im being exposed to.


----------



## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Holland said:


> Semi or high gloss might not be ideal for brush and roll, as it highlights imperfections. I think the higher sheens, when applied well, look great; may require more prep work and skill to pull off S/G or H/G sheens, they are less forgiving.
> 
> Lower sheens on trim are trending now (at least around here). I’ve had a lot of negative reactions when suggesting higher sheens this year- would recommend checking with client before proceeding.


 I personally would't use high gloss either, however they are flat doors, so be pretty hard to muck that up. I would just clear the fronts if they wanted a little extra scrub resistance.


----------



## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

That new Command Paint at BM is out now. The store guys have just told me that its 'like cabinet coat.' Whatever that means.


----------



## monarchski (Jun 21, 2019)

Woodco said:


> That new Command Paint at BM is out now. The store guys have just told me that its 'like cabinet coat.' Whatever that means.


It's much better than Cabinet Coat as far as hardness and isn't quite as finicky on everything being cleaned and sanded perfectly when applied over an alkyd. 1 hour re-coat and 24 hour return to service.


----------



## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Woodco said:


> That new Command Paint at BM is out now. The store guys have just told me that its 'like cabinet coat.' Whatever that means.


Its an interior/exterior urethane acrylic, more similar to breakthrough than cabinetcoat


----------



## Packard (May 2, 2018)

I used to be a photographer back before the digital revolution and we used a darkroom. In important ways, a darkroom is like a paint booth. Both need ventilation, and both abhor dust. The dust is a huge problem for a darkroom. For that reason, I designed my darkroom using cleanroom concepts. 

First, while an exhaust fan will remove fumes, it will also suck in huge amounts of dust. So that is not acceptable.

Second, blowing in filtered air will not add dust and will force the fumes out any opening that is available. 

So in my painting area, I took a $20.00 box fan and a 3M pleated 20" x 20" furnace filter and I blow air into the room through a window. I also leave a window open at the far end of the room for the fumes to exhaust. It works very well. 

It is also safer. You cannot use a $20.00 box fan for exhausting fumes. The motor is not shielded and will be an explosion hazard. But with the filter between the motor and the fumes and the air traveling away from the motor, this is not a hazard. 

Painting with something like Famous Paints of Europe's oil-based enamel will require good ventilation and the simple box fan + filter as a source of fresh filtered air should be adaptable to most rooms.


----------



## Masterwork (Sep 13, 2020)

If you think you're explosion proof with a box fan, you're playing a dangerous game.


----------



## Packard (May 2, 2018)

If turned on prior to starting painting, the fresh air traveling over the motor will protect it from the fumes. Additionally, the filter, which I fitted so that it is on the inside of the room, will further isolate the motor from the fumes. 

I should have mentioned that the filter has to be on the fan after the air flows past the motor. (on the exhaust side, not on the intake side of the fan). 

Further, if mounted on an open window it will not be very near the actual painting. 

I use it that way. I would not use it as an exhaust fan as that would draw the fumes directly over the motor, but as an intake fan it draws fresh air over the motor and forces all the fumes away from it. 

Of course, the same tactic will work with a shielded, explosion-proof motor. They start at about $1,400.00. And if the budget allows for it, probably a good idea.


----------



## davidbennett. (Nov 18, 2021)

Lacquer paint we think it's the best paint for cabinets. I use this paint for Cabinet painting in Mississauga & Vaughan.


----------



## Susan (Nov 29, 2011)

davidbennett. said:


> Lacquer paint we think it's the best paint for cabinets.


David,
Thank you for your thoughtful and kindful advice. I look forward to hearing more from you in the future.


----------



## Packard (May 2, 2018)

I used Advance white gloss on some interior cabinets. The Advance dried slowly but cured fairly quickly and to a very hard finish. The gloss advance is rated for interior and exterior work. 

I brushed some face frames with Advance and that worked well. 

But dark colors cure slowly and never seem to cure as hard as the white does.


----------

