# New to Cabinets



## pscott824 (Dec 20, 2017)

Hello Everyone,

I have a lot of experience with interior and exterior painting, but have always avoided cabinets. I am now moving into a new construction home but I was too late to choose my cabinet color (they gave me dark brown). The cabinets are beech and stained in a dark brown. The wife wants gray, so gray it is. 

I'm a KM guy, and will will specifically be using Gallery Gray, likely in a semi-gloss. Boy, do I have a ton of questions for you all.

ITEM 1: I have always used an airless Graco X7, but am planning on investing in an HVLP due to the seemingly better results one can achieve. (True?) I need these cabinets to have a factory finish or I will never hear the end of it. Because I will only need this sprayer for the cabinets, it doesn't need to be commercial-grade. The Capsprays are awesome, but out of my budget. I am thinking about getting a Fuji Semi-PRO 2 (tried to insert the URL here, but apparently I need to have posted 20 times to do that) and utilizing the gravity fed hopper. Does anyone have experience with a sprayer like this?

ITEM 2: What type of paint do you all recommend to shoot through an HVLP (assuming you recommend HVLP)? I like the idea of the KM (1930) Pro oil-water hybrid due to the hard shell finish and low odor, but realize I will probably have to thin this down with only a 2 stage sprayer. 

ITEM 3: Of course, I may be off-base entirely, so I would love to get all of your opinions on what sprayer/paint type combo to use along with what prep, sanding, and finish (polishing compound, etc.) 

I really appreciate it, everyone! Pictures will surely come once the project gets underway.

Best,

Patrick


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

I am not familiar with the X7 so can’t speak to that (others will), but I would NOT recommend an HVLP if you are wanting to spray acrylic enamels such as KM’s Dura-Poxi. They are generally too heavy a product to be pushed through an HVLP and thinning them reduces their integrity too much, at least IMO. 

I use a Graco 395 with a Graco FFLP 310 tip and get great results. I just use a bit of XIM latex leveler in it.


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## gregplus (Jun 11, 2013)

*hi*

HVLP & PPG Breaktrough with 10% water as tinner works perfect with Titan 115. If you cant afford good HVLP better consider FFLP 310.


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## PNW Painter (Sep 5, 2013)

I've rarely heard anyone recommend an HVLP for spraying Waterborne finishes. Most don't have enough power and the turbine produces hot air, which can cause issues. I've achieved excellent results with my airless, but an air assist airless would be another alternative.

A few of the biggest challenge of achieving a "factory" comes to down to your prep work and your spray booth. Overspray and dust/dirt floating in your spray booth can easily ruin your finish. 


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## Eagle Cap Painter (Nov 14, 2016)

RH said:


> I am not familiar with the X7


x7 is the Magnum DIY model.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

I have two X17's that I rent out for small jobs. I wish I had never bought them. They spray OK but the Pumps and guns that come with them are basically unservicable. You can't run any solvent through them or risk destroying the packings. Never even bothered with them to spray doors/cabinets. Much happier with my 390's.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

I have to concur that a better finish can be obtained with an airless. There are just too many variables with HVLP, and even if you get one dialed in as good as you can on pressure, viscosity, air mix, fan width, etc., it’s just not going to atomize as well as a FF tip in an airless. 

HVLP does give you more control, and makes spraying boxes easier. For doors though, it’s hard to beat an airless finish. 

We use a lot of Breakthrough for cabinets, and it’s great in many ways. 


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

You need to prime them with BIN first. Supposedly, breakthrough will stick to anything though... Durapoxy sticks to oil, but I wouldnt trust it over stain and lacquer.


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## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

I’ve seen tons of painted cabinets with waterborne finishes done many myself. The end result is how well will the finish hold up to repeated use , washing, opening ,closing etc.

I’m not sold on many I can say that. Sure they look great when sprayed , the product sprays easily, flattens out , looks killer. But how well how duarable it will be remains to be seen. 
Still nothing like a oil or lacquer finish.


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## Tprice2193 (Oct 3, 2017)

Technogod:. Thanks for your tips! Are you referring to pigmented lacquers? Could you tell us specifically what products you are using?


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## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

Almost all our cabinet jobs are oak. They are usually grease and nicotine stained.
Washing with dawn dish soap will do nothing.
Before any grain filling or priming we wipe down with will bond or in some cases KK.
We always shellac first always.
Then we fill grain ( which can take multiple coats depending on the desired finish.
Prime again or topcoat depending on product . Lacquer is a great choice but not always ready available in my area especially in deep colors. 
I’ve sprayed all kinds of waterborne products with HVLP with no issues . It’s all in the additives and thinning. I’d rather use my airless or lacquer but it can be done. Just my 2 CT’s.

Listening to The might Led Zeppelin ( That’s the Way from LD111 🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Technogod said:


> Simple is always better tough.
> 
> For stained any color lacquer top coated cabinets :
> 
> ...




I’ve been considering switching to lacquer myself. Supply is a problem here. The only lacquer I have easy access to is Sherwin’s pre cat, which I do like. But I can only get it in white and off white. 

Do you have a supplier that offers a full range of colored lacquer? 

You mention the mil restrictions. That’s another thing that worries me. Recently painted a set that had been done in white lacquer years ago. It had cracked all the way through in several places. I assume from having too thick of a film applied. And of course they had yellowed. 

Nothing looks like lacquer but lacquer, and it’s the best finish IMO. It has some drawbacks though. 


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

There's definitely a lot of pros and cons to any system. I can't imagine spraying lacquer in an occupied house on the frames. I've seen plenty yellow, chip, crack, and touch up is impossible.

Oil chips and yellows over time making touch up difficult. Plus, it's also stinky although not half as bad as lacquer.

Breakthrough is my product of choice. It doesn't smell all that bad, is about a tough as you can get for a waterborne, and touching up if anything does happen is a breeze.

If I had a cabinet shop with a proper spray booth and were doing them from new I'd be using lacquer. I just don't think it's worth jumping through all the hoops and dealing with the stink on a repaint. 

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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Technogod said:


> you are absolutely right.That is because cabinet finishing is another level of painting.needs lots of preparation and equipment.
> you basically cannot put wall and house finishing with cabinetry finishing into same basket.
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah I get the good stuff here which I use for the doors. I use the v50 for brush and rolling the frames because it's easier to work with and the frames don't take nearly as much abuse as the doors do.

I did my work desk with the good stuff 4 years ago and it looks like the day I did it. No cabinet doors are subjected to as much abuse as this desk gets.









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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Technogod said:


> Yeap.thats the reason for cracking.Mil tickness.keep close to 4 mil.mil gauge helps lots to get use to your gun adjustment and spraying technique.i use hvlp never a airless for fine finishes.easy to adjust tough.
> yellowing is something i really cannot speak but in my case i did not see any with this formulas up to now.
> 
> Sherwin williams i use are these cans.they have different formulas for different regions and it is confusing .but these cans never let me down.
> ...


I did a couple cabinet jobs with Multi surface and I won't be doing anymore. Areas that get handled frequently get sticky almost gummy for a lack of a better word. From what I was told it was SWs attempt to reverse engineer Breakthrough. It's close but doesn't have the long term durability of breakthrough. 

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## ThreeSistersPainting (Jan 7, 2017)

_ITEM 1: I have always used an airless Graco X7, but am planning on investing in an HVLP due to the seemingly better results one can achieve. (True?) I need these cabinets to have a factory finish or I will never hear the end of it. Because I will only need this sprayer for the cabinets, it doesn't need to be commercial-grade. The Capsprays are awesome, but out of my budget. I am thinking about getting a Fuji Semi-PRO 2 (tried to insert the URL here, but apparently I need to have posted 20 times to do that) and utilizing the gravity fed hopper. Does anyone have experience with a sprayer like this?_

-Depending on what product you choose will determine what sprayer. Enamels both oil and latex will have good success through an airless unit and the correct tip. I have been told to stay away from budget priced turbine sprayers. You will have better results buying an 10+ gal air compressor and a decent HVLP. Check out the cabinets I just posted, they were sprayed with the Harbor Freight Purple gun and a 10 gal compressor (I used water-borne lacquer, clear satin)

_ITEM 2: What type of paint do you all recommend to shoot through an HVLP (assuming you recommend HVLP)? I like the idea of the KM (1930) Pro oil-water hybrid due to the hard shell finish and low odor, but realize I will probably have to thin this down with only a 2 stage sprayer._ 

-Like stated above, any oil or latex enamels are better sprayed through an airless. I am saying this from experience. I used SW Proclassic oil enamel last year and had nothing but problems through an hvlp so switched to my airless and had great results. Durapoxy is just as thick, I always use an airless with fantastic results. If you want to use an HVLP set-up and want to spray the cabinets gray your options are slim. Any white or clear lacquers work wonders through hvlp.

_ITEM 3: Of course, I may be off-base entirely, so I would love to get all of your opinions on what sprayer/paint type combo to use along with what prep, sanding, and finish (polishing compound, etc.) _

-If you want gray cabinets your options for material should stay around enamels. Which you will want to put through an airless sprayer. If they were my cabinets I would strip them down to wood, carefully because most cabinet centers are veneer (chemical strippers help). Two coats of SW Easy sand Primer, only need to sand before top coats. Spray two coats of Proclassic Alkyd (oil-base), make sure to let dry for 24 hours between coats. A light sanding before the final coat with 220 would do you good.

*Check out the photos of projects section in the forum, I have a few cabinet threads that may be worth checking out


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## zoomermp (Jun 8, 2017)

Get to your nearest paint store that rents TriTech sprayers. Buy a ff 212 TriTech tip. Use BM Advance semi-gloss or BM Super Spec DTM alkyd. Set pressure on sprayer anywhere between 1200 to 1500 psi, depending on model of sprayer and condition. Let's say 3 days to spray primer and two coats paint at 65 rental per day plus spray tip cost of 35 equals 230 for a factory finish.


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## jennifertemple (Oct 30, 2011)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Yeah
> I did my work desk with the good stuff 4 years ago and it looks like the day I did it. No cabinet doors are subjected to as much abuse as this desk gets.
> 
> 
> ...


It does appear to be holding up well! Good Job!


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## Lazerlnes (Sep 9, 2017)

If your using kellymoore products, I remember "Durapoxy" doing great for cabinets. Its been years since I've used it though since i moved to the east coast. Ben Moore "Advance" is my preffered cabinet paint now.


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## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

Forget the turbine hvlp and acrlyic/waterborne alkyd idea. Especially with a cheap unit. 

You have an airless already. Pickup a fine finish tip (I now prefer tritech tips but honestly titan/Graco tips are fine). A .010 or .012 in whatever fan with would probably work fine. I'd use the .012 for any heavier primers and the .010 for the top coat product you choose. 

If you end up with a low power turbine unit you are better off trying to spray a solvent lacquer or try playing around with a waterborne lacquer product or thinning a good amount and spraying a true alkyd enamel. 

Do a Google search. Go to Google. Type "site:www.painttalk.com" put a space afterwards and insert your search terms. 

Example
Site:www.painttalk.com airless cabinets 

Lots of info that can be dug up and read. 

The turbine hvlp units have worked for some. I bought one. Then I bought a small airless. 

I am still searching for products that work well with the turbine unit. I'm sure they exist.

I'd head the advice from others above. A cup gun (conventional/conversion/hvlp/lvlp) with a decent compressor and possibly a pressure pot would probably work out better than the turbine units. The turbines hot dry air is a handicap with waterborne coatings. If it was hot and moist or temperate and dry it would probably be a more used option. 

Plenty of guys on here and else where putting down nice finishes with an airless.


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## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

I know this an old thread. I’ve had a few different peers ( fellow Paint contractors I respect ) all tell me the new Breakthrough as it’s called. Has worked great for them? Lower Odor and sprays just fine. I saw a huge built in , a buddy did in a deep base and looked pissa as we say in bruins country. So what’s the deal maybe a learning curve ?


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

thinkpainting/nick said:


> I know this an old thread. I’ve had a few different peers ( fellow Paint contractors I respect ) all tell me the new Breakthrough as it’s called. Has worked great for them? Lower Odor and sprays just fine. I saw a huge built in , a buddy did in a deep base and looked pissa as we say in bruins country. So what’s the deal maybe a learning curve ?


I'm not sure how it holds up to handling long term compared to the older version but it does look nice. It also doesn't have as much bite, but still sticks pretty darn well. 

The secret I have learned after much trial and error with breakthrough is to spray it with a 308. Seriously, don't even bother with any other size 308 is the ticket with breakthrough. 

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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

I tested old vs new breakthrough, and new stuff definitely isnt as hard right away. I cant say about when its fully cured though. My paint store has all their counters supposedly painted in the new stuff, and you cant scratch it. All I know, is breakthrough + humidity is BAD.


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## Painting Practice (Jul 21, 2013)

I have a Fuji 5 stage turbine, and generally shoot un-thinned Breakthrough with it on cabinets. Yes, you have to turn it off to cool often, (it helps to have the remote control). It is much faster to clean, but where it really shines is with clear coats. (no pun intended) The downside is the plastic cup seal will leak if not handled gingerly and cleaned well. This causes spattering and a mess on your hand beneath.


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## 804 Paint (Jan 31, 2014)

No need for “new” Breakthru any longer. Ben Moore did with Scuff X what PPG tried to do with Breakthru in a VOC-compliant formula. Scuff X seriously bonds and it is seriously hard. Waiting on semigloss for those who prefer it. I think the satin is just great though.

And you can skip the priming for darker colors. Sticks to wood and metal like a champ. 


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

Nick
I've used Breakthrough since writing this post https://www.painttalk.com/f2/kitchen-cabinet-painting-orlando-fl-34377/
on 1/25/15

we paint over 700 door each month and we're now hitting close to 1,000 doors a month. We've had a total of 2 call backs, one we forgot to remove some blue tape & one with a bad spot we missed. 

ZERO calls because of product. Everyone has their own opinion on products to use. For me Breakthrough work perfect

We've used all types of equipment but learned for us :
*Sprayer:* CA Technologies H20 14:1 air assisted airless setup is king

amazing the quality you get from the right equipment, the pleasure you get too. No hot air from a HVLP hot box, spending time adjusting and slow working speed

no blasting with a airless / fine finish tip wasting material and door spinning in circles while hanging

I am not knocking how / equipment / product anyone uses just letting you know our way

Hanging doors spraying both sides has worked great for us

i'll try this weekend to take pictures of our shop & update but here's a few for now














[/ATTACH]


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Repaint Florida said:


> Nick
> I've used Breakthrough since writing this post https://www.painttalk.com/f2/kitchen-cabinet-painting-orlando-fl-34377/
> on 1/25/15
> 
> ...


Hey Repaint, do you spray the frames or brush and roll them? 

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## 804 Paint (Jan 31, 2014)

Repaint, what version of Breakthrough are you using? You may have the old version, which is vastly superior to the new low VOC version. 


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## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

Repaint Florida said:


> Nick
> I've used Breakthrough since writing this post https://www.painttalk.com/f2/kitchen-cabinet-painting-orlando-fl-34377/
> on 1/25/15
> 
> ...


Looking good my friend , thanks for the tips . Nice ride 👍🏻


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## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

Like all things depends on availability of products and how much volume we do. I’m not gonna invest in a AAA for a few cab jobs . I do have acces to a Graco AAA but personally I didn’t care for it. I use a diaphragm pump with a FF Tip and get a killer finish at low pressure. 
We don’t win that many cab jobs. I bid quite a few but we only get a small percent. The older I get the less I care about competing with low ballers. 

I called a local independent Paint store asked which version of BT he stocks. It’s the new version. He did agree with the points most guys made on here about the older being better than the new version. But it’s still a very good product ( his words). I have a very high end OCD cab job coming up soon. Gonna sample some doors with BT. My go to cab Paint has been Advance ( no issues like it allot) the SW Urathane isn’t bad either .We shall see how the BT new version lights my fire. The quick dry time and the hardness is what interests me.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Benjamin Moore Scuff X is far superior to break through. Easier to work with, faster drying and much more durable. Can hardly wait until they introduce the semi-gloss. It will be a toss-up as to what to use on kitchen cabinets either the Advance or Scuff X


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## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

Zoomer said:


> Benjamin Moore Scuff X is far superior to break through. Easier to work with, faster drying and much more durable. Can hardly wait until they introduce the semi-gloss. It will be a toss-up as to what to use on kitchen cabinets either the Advance or Scuff X


I’ve used lots of Scuff X. It’s ok the eggshell is more like a semi to shiny for me on residential. I’ve used the Satin it’s a nice product . Definitely sprays nice the stain does leave a very silky finish. I didn’t think it dried all that quick.


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## 804 Paint (Jan 31, 2014)

thinkpainting/nick said:


> I’ve used lots of Scuff X. It’s ok the eggshell is more like a semi to shiny for me on residential. I’ve used the Satin it’s a nice product . Definitely sprays nice the stain does leave a very silky finish. I didn’t think it dried all that quick.




The eggshell is a little much but don’t agree it’s like semi. It seems kinda pointless tho with the “matte” coming in like a true eggshell. 

Silky is right with that satin. Feels amazing. Hard as a rock too.


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## Mr Smith (Mar 11, 2016)

thinkpainting/nick said:


> I’ve used lots of Scuff X. It’s ok the eggshell is more like a semi to shiny for me on residential. I’ve used the Satin it’s a nice product . Definitely sprays nice the stain does leave a very silky finish. I didn’t think it dried all that quick.


How is the blocking issue with Scuff X? Can you flip them over the next day? I used to wait about 4-5 days to flip them over when using Advance. I've since started to use cardboard on top of my wire dry racks and that helps reduce the flip time a bit.

Are you spraying the Scuff- X flat or spraying both sides on hangers?

The Advance isn't as hard as I thought. I brought a sample cabinet door (sprayed with Advance & cured about a year) to work and a handyman scratched it with his fingernail. He told me he always clear-coats his cabinets with BM "Stays Clear" and can't scratch them.

I'm guessing that Scuff-X is a harder surface than Advance. I'll still use Advance but I won't tell the customer that it's bulletproof anymore.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

Mr Smith said:


> How is the blocking issue with Scuff X? Can you flip them over the next day? I used to wait about 4-5 days to flip them over when using Advance. I've since started to use cardboard on top of my wire dry racks and that helps reduce the flip time a bit.
> 
> Are you spraying the Scuff- X flat or spraying both sides on hangers?
> 
> ...


Yes you can flip them next day...heck, flip it as soon as its dry! Scuffx is not primer, it doesn't block stains....not sure if that answered the question?you can spray it either way...flat or hanging. It's just a great trim product in general. Smooth, hard finish and touches up easy.

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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Hey Repaint, do you spray the frames or brush and roll them?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


 brush & roll frames, never have a problem selling our service ....
i've said it here many times i have all girls working for me
HO love it & they are great at details


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

804 Paint said:


> Repaint, what version of Breakthrough are you using? You may have the old version, which is vastly superior to the new low VOC version.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


low VOC


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

thinkpainting/nick said:


> Looking good my friend , thanks for the tips . Nice ride 👍🏻


Thanks ... love cabinets, said before cutting out door panels & installing glass is a great up-sell

our latest is cut door and added chicken wire








the ride help me sell jobs ... we do a lot of high end jobs and they like seeing us pull up in it. Starts a lot of conversation


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## loaded brush (Dec 27, 2007)

Has anyone who uses Scuff X for cabinetry had any issues as far as durability. Spoke to my store manager as to how some guys are using it for cabinets whixh surprised her, and she related it to the Benjamin Moore rep who said Scuff X was definitely not a product for cabinetry. Waiting for the details as why its not to be used for cabinetry. Myself I would rather it be represented as a cabinet paint from BM Corporation so as to possibly use it for my clients. But again it is an Ultra Spec product, which is a low grade line from BM, which for that reason I wouldnt use on my residential clientel but maybe for commercial accounts.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

loaded brush said:


> Has anyone who uses Scuff X for cabinetry had any issues as far as durability. Spoke to my store manager as to how some guys are using it for cabinets whixh surprised her, and she related it to the Benjamin Moore rep who said Scuff X was definitely not a product for cabinetry. Waiting for the details as why its not to be used for cabinetry. Myself I would rather it be represented as a cabinet paint from BM Corporation so as to possibly use it for my clients. But again it is an Ultra Spec product, which is a low grade line from BM, which for that reason I wouldnt use on my residential clientel but maybe for commercial accounts.


I WAS gonna use it on a cabinet, but cabinet coat finally came out in darker colors, so I switched. Im guessing they dont advertise it for cabinets is that it would be in competition with cabinet coat. The guys at my store said people are using it with good results for cabinetry.


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## 804 Paint (Jan 31, 2014)

loaded brush said:


> Has anyone who uses Scuff X for cabinetry had any issues as far as durability. Spoke to my store manager as to how some guys are using it for cabinets whixh surprised her, and she related it to the Benjamin Moore rep who said Scuff X was definitely not a product for cabinetry. Waiting for the details as why its not to be used for cabinetry. Myself I would rather it be represented as a cabinet paint from BM Corporation so as to possibly use it for my clients. But again it is an Ultra Spec product, which is a low grade line from BM, which for that reason I wouldnt use on my residential clientel but maybe for commercial accounts.




Well, it’s priced with Regal Select...maybe a bit higher. It’s far from a low-grade product. I
Can’t see why it shouldn’t be used. I think BM did not expect to see this product become so popular and take some of the share of their retail lines. I bet you’ll see a
similar tech come out marketed as a trim and cabinet paint. 

I like it better than Cabinet Coat. It does not marr as easily and the dry time is much faster. Adhesion is amazing.


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## Mr Smith (Mar 11, 2016)

804 Paint said:


> Well, it’s priced with Regal Select...maybe a bit higher. It’s far from a low-grade product. I
> Can’t see why it shouldn’t be used. I think BM did not expect to see this product become so popular and take some of the share of their retail lines. I bet you’ll see a
> similar tech come out marketed as a trim and cabinet paint.
> 
> I like it better than Cabinet Coat. It does not marr as easily and the dry time is much faster. Adhesion is amazing.


You could be right. Benjamin Moore makes 2 cabinet grade enamels: Advance & Cabinet Coat. Yes, the Scuff-X would take market share from the other two.

I can't get the semi-gloss Cabinet Coat in Canada for some reason. Some say that the Scuff-X eggshell can pass as a pearl sheen.


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## 804 Paint (Jan 31, 2014)

Mr Smith said:


> You could be right. Benjamin Moore makes 2 cabinet grade enamels: Advance & Cabinet Coat. Yes, the Scuff-X would take market share from the other two.
> 
> I can't get the semi-gloss Cabinet Coat in Canada for some reason. Some say that the Scuff-X eggshell can pass as a pearl sheen.




I guess I didn’t realize BM owned Insul-X. 

Yeah the eggshell is definitely pearl. Matte is eggshell.


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## Mr Smith (Mar 11, 2016)

Repaint Florida said:


> Thanks ... love cabinets, said before cutting out door panels & installing glass is a great up-sell
> 
> our latest is cut door and added chicken wire
> View attachment 102607
> ...


I'm surprised that you are using the low VOC version. I din't know that you can brush and roll it.

Do you have a finishing carpenter who cuts the doors for the glass? Do you then take it to a glass company? I'll bet that that add-on is about $500 each door. Nice glass btw!


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## 804 Paint (Jan 31, 2014)

Mr Smith said:


> I'm surprised that you are using the low VOC version. I din't know that you can brush and roll it.
> 
> Do you have a finishing carpenter who cuts the doors for the glass? Do you then take it to a glass company? I'll bet that that add-on is about $500 each door. Nice glass btw!




I felt that the trade off with the low VOC was superior open time and leveling. It IS super easy to spray. 

Another question for Repaint: You used to skip priming in darker colors. Is that still your practice with the low-VOC version? I found it did not grip as well. 

I know you also used waterborne Seal Grip for light colors. Ever had any tannins bleed through?

Thanks.


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## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

So I tried the BT actually tried setting up account at a local store for all PPG products. But they seemed to care less about my business ( there loss bigtime) 
That’s what happens when lumber yards or building supply centers sell Paint . A dedicated Paint supplier is more aware he needs business from PAINTERS. 

I shot 3 cab doors , Breakthrough Satin ( definitely a different type of satin finish almost like a hand rubbed ) another door in Advance Satin and last in SW urethane.

My pictures suck sorry but in my HPO ( humble painters opinion). The Advance has the killer oil look and feel. But in a deep color like this takes wayyyyyyy to like no to cure or even dry. 

The Breakthrough didn’t like humidity at all as it’s been muggy and &#55356;&#57127; here.
It didn’t dry all that fast but it was much much faster especially in a deep base . 

The SW Urethane I hate to say it ,but sprays great ,good hang time and the semi ( which is a Satin really) looks and feels nice.

I have a scuff x door yet to be done . The big benefit I always liked about Advance is it touches up great and brush or roll boxes is great as well. Not so sure how BT would brush and roll .

Pressure was 1000-1200 for all and GX diaphragm ( love my diaphragm”s) pumps . I did also sample the Breakthrough with my Accuspray HVLP gun and 4 Stage Turbine no issues sprayed great.


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## OT Painting (Mar 2, 2019)

I’ve just finished spraying cabinets doors using BIN and Cabinet Coat satin finish (now owned by Ben Moore) using my Graco Ultra handheld sprayer using a fflp 310 tip. No thinning of the paint. Flawless results.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Kitchen cabinets a definite money maker.
Suggested primer: Bin Shellac, by far the best.
Suggested paints: BM Advance is preferred but BM Dtm alkyd occasionally for some projects.
Cabinet Coat not bad but not as good as first two.
Breakthrough not bad but can be temperamental when spraying in certain temps and humidity.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Suggested spray method: Door Rack Painter, easiest and most professional. A better finish when spraying horizontal.
Coat hangers: not as effective. They spin when spraying. Also spraying vertically is more difficult to control runs and says. Don't forget the added time of removing every hanger, patching small holes and touching up.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Door Rack Painter method.


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## OT Painting (Mar 2, 2019)

The one reason I used Cabinet Coat over Advance was the drying time. Six hours for CC 16 hrs for Advance, but now that my Door Rack Painter system arrives in a couple of days I’ll try the Advance as I can paint both sides, leave it to dry and done.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

OT Painting said:


> The one reason I used Cabinet Coat over Advance was the drying time. Six hours for CC 16 hrs for Advance, but now that my Door Rack Painter system arrives in a couple of days I’ll try the Advance as I can paint both sides, leave it to dry and done.


. Good luck.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

OT Painting said:


> The one reason I used Cabinet Coat over Advance was the drying time. Six hours for CC 16 hrs for Advance, but now that my Door Rack Painter system arrives in a couple of days I’ll try the Advance as I can paint both sides, leave it to dry and done.



give the coronado Sk5000 a try. Similar to advance. 4 hour recoat. and 1/2 the price.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

I almost forgot about the Coronado. Yes we used it a couple times a month and have found that it works quite well. I would consider it to be very similar to scuff x yet not as hard and smooth a finish as advanced. still the same we have used it for entire houses of doors and trim and it has held up very well. Recoat time like scuff x is excellent and two coats can be applied in a single day.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

if we have a client who is selling their house and needs the kitchen cabinets painted I would go with either the scuff x or the Coronado alkyd waterborne. if the client is staying in the house I would go with advance or DTM alkyd.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Zoomer said:


> if we have a client who is selling their house and needs the kitchen cabinets painted I would go with either the scuff x or the Coronado alkyd waterborne. if the client is staying in the house I would go with advance or DTM alkyd.


What area are you located you don't have c235?

Definitely the finish not quite as good as advance, it's meant to be a commercial price point product.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Zoomer said:
> 
> 
> > if we have a client who is selling their house and needs the kitchen cabinets painted I would go with either the scuff x or the Coronado alkyd waterborne. if the client is staying in the house I would go with advance or DTM alkyd.
> ...


Denver Colorado. We buy from Guiry's paint and art supply. Several locations.


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