# Ben Moore advance



## goodasgoldpainting (Jan 28, 2014)

Hey everyone, just wanted to get everyone's input. Have to do cabinets and the HO don't want to spend to much money so instead of spraying just going to cut and roll. Sherwin Williams told me to use pre cat but I've been reading about Ben Moore advance, anyone use this before? If so how did you like it


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Great leveling qualities. Pretty easy to apply once you get the hang of it (it can tend to run out of inside corners and such). Improved open time over acrylics. Fairly durable. 

Drawbacks are, long re coat and cure time. It's an alkyd so it will yellow some. It's also brittle like an alkyd is and can hairline crack if there's any movement like where styles and rails meet or at joints on the frames.


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## ShermanMoore (Mar 23, 2014)

Pre-Cat stays kind of soft a little longer than I'd like. Also, I don't care for the dull eg-shel and the semi that's really a gloss. I've mixed both sheens 50/50 and really liked the result. Advance is pretty fantastic. Like Jmays said, great leveling and durability. I think BM's claims about open time are overstated a bit, it still sets up pretty fast in my experience. Not ProClassic fast, but you get the idea.


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## radio11 (Aug 14, 2015)

I've used Advance (brush and roll) on cabinets numerous times with very good success. Would like to try Muralo soon, but would be tough to beat the Advance. 


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Use a 4" Wooster 3/8 nap mini roller. Hard to beat for a tight finish.


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## PNW Painter (Sep 5, 2013)

Solo with some extender would work well and it's a lower price point than Advance, Pre Cat or ProClassic


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

Why not just use proclassic hybrid? Great product, pretty easy to work with and quick recoat.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Both solo and pro classic are not bad products but upon curing Advance gives a much better appearance and is more durable. Having sprayed pro classic hybrid recently it is a false sheen for every level. 
Gloss is really semi, semi is more like satin and satin is more of a matte finish


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

I've been hearing good things about the Pro Industrial Multi Surface. From what I hear it's the SW version of breakthrough.

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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Yadda, yadda, yadda. Use the Advance and don't look back. Bring it! BAM!


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

PACman said:


> Yadda, yadda, yadda. Use the Advance and don't look back. Bring it! BAM!


I can do a big full kitchen cabinet set in 3 easy days start to finish using Breakthrough with the long recoat and dry times of Advance I doubt that would be a possibility. 

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## Allsurface (Aug 17, 2014)

I used Dulux x-pert melamine, I got good results with brush and roll. Fast recoat too. Excellent adhesion to old oil gloss. 
It's a waterborne alkyd. 
Should be about the 30 dollar mark.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

We love advance and use it every chance we get on cabinets, doors, and trim. I found the learning curve steep and intuitive, coming from using primarily satin Impervo oil. Treat it similarly to as you would a true alkyd. Done right, it creates a finish second to none, IMO.


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## cdmpaintco (Dec 7, 2014)

BM Advanced holds up impressively and is a beautiful finish, but was a real pain is the arse to work with (very long curing times brush and roll or airless). I would agree on sw multi surface or sw pro classic with maximum amount of extender.


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## PNW Painter (Sep 5, 2013)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> We love advance and use it every chance we get on cabinets, doors, and trim. I found the learning curve steep and intuitive, coming from using primarily satin Impervo oil. Treat it similarly to as you would a true alkyd. Done right, it creates a finish second to none, IMO.



There is no way I'd recommend tackling a brush and roll cabinet job with Advance if you don't have any experience using it. The learning curve is way to steep with advance to risk it on a cabinet job.


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## TrueColors (Jul 30, 2010)

Advance is my go-to now. Learning curve took a few jobs to master. Now I'm really impressed with how it looks/durability. 

Not going to lie I've pushed the re-coat window many of time. I've applied 2 coats in a matter of 3 hours on some baseboards and spindles. Never ever had a problem, still levelled the same. Only thing is you can't sand it so you better have that perfect befor 1st coat. I've done lots of cabs with advance but never really pushed the re-coat window with those... 


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

TrueColors said:


> Advance is my go-to now. Learning curve took a few jobs to master. Now I'm really impressed with how it looks/durability. Not going to lie I've pushed the re-coat window many of time. I've applied 2 coats in a matter of 3 hours on some baseboards and spindles. Never ever had a problem, still levelled the same. Only thing is you can't sand it so you better have that perfect befor 1st coat. I've done lots of cabs with advance but never really pushed the re-coat window with those... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 advance loves to be wet sanded. You can easily erase runs or polish it like stone by wet sanding between coats.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> advance loves to be wet sanded. You can easily erase runs or polish it like stone by wet sanding between coats.



Yes it does, wet sanding between coats can slick it down amazingly. I wish I had figured that out when I first started using it.


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## TrueColors (Jul 30, 2010)

What grit are you guys using for wet sanding between coats?


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

I use 400-600. I'm sure you could go finer.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Jmayspaint said:


> I use 400-600. I'm sure you could go finer.


 same here


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

I'm working through some issues with PPG Breakthrough on the current remodel job. Using it for new and existing trim, and new cabs and doors. But I'm already sold on it for adhesion and fast curing. 

I'd been using Advance for the past couple of years on new cabs, but the last new cabinet job I did with Advance was in a medium gray color. After letting the doors and the face frames of the cabs dry for a week before rehanging the doors, they still stuck to to the face frames and pulled paint off back to the primer. That's embarrassing. 

On the current job using Breakthrough, I stacked bookshelves together one day after spraying to carry back to location and they didn't stick at all. Cab doors to face frames, no issue after one day on the drying rack.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

slinger58 said:


> I'm working through some issues with PPG Breakthrough on the current remodel job. Using it for new and existing trim, and new cabs and doors. But I'm already sold on it for adhesion and fast curing.
> 
> I'd been using Advance for the past couple of years on new cabs, but the last new cabinet job I did with Advance was in a medium gray color. After letting the doors and the face frames of the cabs dry for a week before rehanging the doors, they still stuck to to the face frames and pulled paint off back to the primer. That's embarrassing.
> 
> On the current job using Breakthrough, I stacked bookshelves together one day after spraying to carry back to location and they didn't stick at all. Cab doors to face frames, no issue after one day on the drying rack.


We have never used it. Does it have a similar viscosity? Does it spray out as well as Advance?


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Zoomer said:


> We have never used it. Does it have a similar viscosity? Does it spray out as well as Advance?


It's pretty thin so you can't put it on very heavy or it will run. But with a two hour recoat time who cares. Last set of cabinets I did with it I didn't sand the back of a drawer to see how it would adhere, not even an hour later I couldn't scratch it off digging as hard as I could with my nails. 

The finish is fantastic when spraying, it even layed out nice with a brush despite the short open time. :yes:

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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Rbriggs82 said:


> It's pretty thin so you can't put it on very heavy or it will run. But with a two hour recoat time who cares. Last set of cabinets I did with it I didn't sand the back of a drawer to see how it would adhere, not even an hour later I couldn't scratch it off digging as hard as I could with my nails.
> 
> The finish is fantastic when spraying, it even layed out nice with a brush despite the short open time. :yes:
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


I'm stoked about trying it. Thank you for the response.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

What's not to love? Took some pics today of a current job. Dry, sprayed, Advance satin at doors and trim. Color BM Iron Mountain.


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## papernpaste (Dec 10, 2009)

I did my own kitchen cabs with Advance. I had to take the doors off and paint each side, twice. As mentioned, dry time is a "con." The finish does level like an alkyd. The tops of well used drawers need a repaint after five years. Over-all durability is okay...hardness leaves something to be desired. Bond is good-to-excellent.
I found that it could not be applied with any measurablebuild or it started to droop before it set up. Set up time is too long (or was three years ago when I purchased and used it for the last time.
Why not use BM (alkyd) Satin Impervo?


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## Phinnster (Feb 20, 2013)

Excell
Looks sweet 
Did you prime the metal ?
What rig ?


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Phinnster said:


> Excell Looks sweet Did you prime the metal ? What rig ?


 Those are birch skin, solid core wood doors. The wide one is a large pocket door that separates the living space from the bedroom wing of the house. We primed everything with tinted all pro oil (relabeled coverstain). I'm a personal fan of 217, but my guys prefer the quicker dry times and sandability of the All pro stuff. We needed a lot of primer to erase the grain. 

Everything was sprayed with a straight up, old school 395 airless with a Graco FF412 tip. Primer was sprayed with a regular worn 517 tip. Did I say we used a lot of primer? 

All of the exterior doors in this house are steel and are even a darker color to match the dark bronze/blackish anodized finish on the windows and exterior flashing. They were delivered pre-primed, so we just sprayed the interiors with advance directly on the factory primer. They look even more mirror like than the doors pictured. 

I've never had a call back due to related to Advance on any cabinet or mill pack. Like I said before, if you work with it correctly, then the finish results are second to none.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Nice work George! As always.


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## Phinnster (Feb 20, 2013)

Reall sweet


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Beautiful work, Excel. Have you ever had issues with the slow cure of Advance?

In a previous post I mentioned cab doors sticking to face frames after 7 days of dry time. It was a medium gray color and doors were sprayed in a controlled environment. Overnight dry allowed between finish coats.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

slinger58 said:


> Beautiful work, Excel. Have you ever had issues with the slow cure of Advance? In a previous post I mentioned cab doors sticking to face frames after 7 days of dry time. It was a medium gray color and doors were sprayed in a controlled environment. Overnight dry allowed between finish coats.


 I haven't experienced anything like you described. The worst thing I had happen was with a window seat. We sprayed it (Iron mountain, same architect as the job in my pictures). The next day the electricians stood on it, with unprotected dirty shoes, to install light fixtures. That left some permanent marks. We had to respray it after the homeowners moved in. Then that night the cat walked all over it leaving faint but unremovable paw prints everywhere. Ended up rerolling it the final time, and leaving it bagged up for a few days.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Exel, your results speak volumes. Keep up the good work.


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

Anyone experience issues sanding Advance? I find that the dust rolls and balls up and clogs paper easily. Whether it's hand sanded or with the Festools. Doesn't seem to matter how long it's cured either.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

PRC said:


> Anyone experience issues sanding Advance? I find that the dust rolls and balls up and clogs paper easily. Whether it's hand sanded or with the Festools. Doesn't seem to matter how long it's cured either.



Wet sand it, works great. Some 400-600 grit and a wet rag. Smooths it out wonderfully. 
I have even done it with a vibrating sander. Using water with power tools is not advisable of course, but it works great if you just wet the surface with a rag first.


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## ElTacoPaco (Dec 11, 2015)

When the first coat cures it will be trapped if you put on a second coat and will make it soft


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

*As always before I talk about a BM product, I'm a BM vendor so please take what I say with that in mind*

Advance _is_ a great product but it's definitely got some drawbacks and some tricks. As much as I'd love to say it's perfect for every job, it isn't. It needs to be treated like an oil, and the dry time needs to be respected or you can face some problems. I always recommend 12 hours+ to dry for it, or you can face some issues. It's also worth noting that the darker the color, the longer the dry time necessary. Some people neglect this, and it will cause trouble. 


Boring science stuff:


Spoiler



To clarify a bit (and hopefully help some people with the issues they've had?), the problem is not that if you recoat too soon that it will take longer to dry. The problem is that if you recoat too soon it inhibits the drying process so severely that you may never get as hard of a finish as you normally would, no matter how long you let it dry after. Advance will not form the molecular bonds it needs to in order to set up if you put another coat on it too soon and keep it from the air. It essentially traps the coating underneath in a partially dry state. It will still dry (eventually) but it will not have latticed correctly in order to form the tough, durable finish you expect from it.



On the more positive end of the spectrum, though, if used correctly it makes one of the best looking finishes around (in my opinion), dries incredibly durable, will not noticeably yellow for a _very_ long time compared to pure oils, and is tintable to any color unlike some of the alternatives.


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