# Old School Graco 395st



## philcav7 (Sep 12, 2013)

I picked up an older 395st at the flea market. It's in rough shape: missing discharge tube and filter assembly. 

Is it worth rebuilding, or is it an older outdated paperweight? I'm not even sure if parts are available for it. 

I have a 495 high boy, but would be nice having a smaller unit.


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## SprayRepairGuy (Jan 15, 2014)

Bedford 395st Reference


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## The Cutting Edge (May 25, 2014)

I run a 495st pro just about every day. Mines been a great pump. Runs circles around my titan 440.


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## Mike2coat (Nov 12, 2013)

Yea Bedford is the way to go, you can get a new sleeve, rod, packings, prime tube , all that stuff a lo cheaper than Graco.


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## philcav7 (Sep 12, 2013)

Thanks for the replies 


Here's the unit in question, part # 231-575. I have rebuilt my other sprayer, it was pretty straight forward. I will get a parts list together and price out what it will cost to get going. The filter assembly maybe a deal breaker. What is the most you would put into getting it going, for occasional use as a remodeler?

Anyone have some old spare filter unit laying around?


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## philcav7 (Sep 12, 2013)

Another pic


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## SprayRepairGuy (Jan 15, 2014)

The outlet filter assembly retails for about $225, but you can run the sprayer without one installed on it. If you do, just add an inline filter before your gun, or use a gun with a filter built into the handle like a Graco Contractor Gun or Titan LX-80. You can always add an outlet filter assembly at some later date.


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## The Cutting Edge (May 25, 2014)

Mr Spray Repair Guy hope you'll check back on this post. I traded some work for an airlessco 460 that had been sitting in the guys garage for 5 yrs. It never had a drop of paint ran through it. I have a sl 1100 that I never have trouble with so I figured why not.
It still had a baggie over the suction tube with oil still in it. I ran some hot soapy water through it to flush it out. It would build pressure up and blow the primer hose off and blow water through the bypass valve. Even when id turn the pressure all the way down it would still cycle. I read in the manual you could recalibrate the pump but I didn't have the gauges to check pressure. Took it to a guy that only works on titan and graco pumps.
But said he could do it. He says it needs a new board at $400. I don't really trust this guy so its been sitting there the last 2.5 weeks while I decide to pay him to do it or take it somewhere else. He said it had some pink fluid sitting in the bottom that maybe shorted it out. I dunno. It was clean as new and I don't think it ever saw a drop of paint. Would love to hear your thoughts.


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## SprayRepairGuy (Jan 15, 2014)

It could be the board or transducer. It could also be as simple as just a stuck outlet ball that is not seating.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Would this sprayer be the same as a 395ST pro? Couple of years ago, a customer gave me one that had been sitting in his garage. Not even sure if the thing works. Wouldn't mind taking a shot at testing it at some point. Been sitting in my shed for two years now.

Ever since joining this forum, I've had the urge to spray something.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Would this sprayer be the same as a 395ST pro? Couple of years ago, a customer gave me one that had been sitting in his garage. Not even sure if the thing works. Wouldn't mind taking a shot at testing it at some point. Been sitting in my shed for two years now. Ever since joining this forum, I've had the urge to spray something.


I don't spray? Never?
Seriously?

Fill up a five with water. See if it pumps it. A couple minutes it would take you, and no mess


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Oden said:


> I don't spray? Never?
> Seriously?
> 
> Fill up a five with water. See if it pumps it. A couple minutes it would take you, and no mess


Nope, never. Always just brushed and rolled. Guess I never branched out from what the old school guy who trained me did. Might give this a shot over the weekend.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Nope, never. Always just brushed and rolled. Guess I never branched out from what the old school guy who trained me did. Might give this a shot over the weekend.


Oh yeh, got to.
No way in this day and age you can't have a pump in ur arsenal. Crazy. 
That NC u were doing? Forget about it. You won't know what to do with all ur free time. Lol
Not every case, but certain things. You are going to turn hours into minutes, 
A bifold door for a example? Ur what brushing them? Just as a example. A halve a hour is like 60 seconds there. Just a example.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Oden said:


> Oh yeh, got to.
> No way in this day and age you can't have a pump in ur arsenal. Crazy.
> That NC u were doing? Forget about it. You won't know what to do with all ur free time. Lol
> Not every case, but certain things. You are going to turn hours into minutes,
> A bifold door for a example? Ur what brushing them? Just as a example. A halve a hour is like 60 seconds there. Just a example.


Keeping in mind, I live in a town with roughly 7k population. Don't get a lot of jobs where it'd come in handy. Even that guy I was working for that you're talking about was for the first time talking about first coating his trim with a spray rig. But I'm done with him.

I'd love this if I had a shop, but I just don't see the expense worth it. OMS problems I guess. Spraying grammas bedroom just doesn't seem worth the troubles.

Anyhoo, I'm gonna spray some water through this thing over the weekend if it kills me. Either way, the dogs will have some fun watching and chomping at the spray!


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Keeping in mind, I live in a town with roughly 7k population. Don't get a lot of jobs where it'd come in handy. Even that guy I was working for that you're talking about was for the first time talking about first coating his trim with a spray rig. But I'm done with him.
> 
> I'd love this if I had a shop, but I just don't see the expense worth it. OMS problems I guess. Spraying grammas bedroom just doesn't seem worth the troubles.
> 
> Anyhoo, I'm gonna spray some water through this thing over the weekend if it kills me. Either way, the dogs will have some fun watching and chomping at the spray!



I know what you mean Bill about the small town thing. Where I live and even in surrounding larger towns, very few painters spray. 

My dad was trained to spray in the union out west and taught me. It's a tremendous advantage over the local competition to have spraying in my arsenal. 

Give it some thought, you might be surprised how useful it can be even on small town type jobs. My dad used to say the sound of the pump running was the sound of money, and he was right.


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## The Cutting Edge (May 25, 2014)

Just spraying ceilings alone its worth having one and using it. I never roll a ceiling anymore. Even if the walls are already painted I cover them with 8' plastic on the hand masker, throw a drop down, spray a cross hatch pattern and I'm gone. I know everyone does things different. Its just so fast and the quality is every bit as good as rolling.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

I don't get it the small town angle
Who cares what every other painter close is doing? I mean it's not like u signed agreements to handicap ur selves, slow the work down? Being the only spray capable outfit close? Wouldn't that be great. And if u actually are the first to start using that technology? How great would that be? You will always be ahead of ur competition. I'm liking that scenario.


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## The Cutting Edge (May 25, 2014)

A guy with a spray rig is always going to have an advantage over a guy without. No doubt. Hey that rimes.:thumbup:


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## philcav7 (Sep 12, 2013)

SprayRepairGuy said:


> The outlet filter assembly retails for about $225, but you can run the sprayer without one installed on it. If you do, just add an inline filter before your gun, or use a gun with a filter built into the handle like a Graco Contractor Gun or Titan LX-80. You can always add an outlet filter assembly at some later date.


Perfect. The guy at SW said I would be okay with out a filter too. I have LX80's and graco guns. Straining the paint probably wouldn't hurt either. 


I guess I will look at the piston, check for wear and get my parts list together to order. 

Any drawback to using a 15' or 25' hose on this unit?

Thanks all.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Oden said:


> I don't spray? Never?
> Seriously?
> 
> Fill up a five with water. See if it pumps it. A couple minutes it would take you, and no mess


Well, you certainly got me curious about this.

I just took the thing out, plopped what I expect to be the suction tube into a bucket of water and turned the thing on. Pump appears to be pumping, but it looks like the last time this thing was used... It didn't get cleaned up very well if at all. The tip was jammed with dried paint. Pulled the gun off the hose, there's a lot of mush in there. Doesn't look like the guy who owned it was much into cleaning anything.

I bet with some methyl hydrate or something I could scrub this thing up good as new. Maybe.

Tried flipping every switch and pushing every button I could find cuz, that's how I roll.

Not one drop of water came out of the hose even with the gun off.

Gonna keep fiddling with it though.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Well, you certainly got me curious about this. I just took the thing out, plopped what I expect to be the suction tube into a bucket of water and turned the thing on. Pump appears to be pumping, but it looks like the last time this thing was used... It didn't get cleaned up very well if at all. The tip was jammed with dried paint. Pulled the gun off the hose, there's a lot of mush in there. Doesn't look like the guy who owned it was much into cleaning anything. I bet with some methyl hydrate or something I could scrub this thing up good as new. Maybe. Tried flipping every switch and pushing every button I could find cuz, that's how I roll. Not one drop of water came out of the hose even with the gun off. Gonna keep fiddling with it though.


Is it that the primer valve is open? Is it coming out of there then it is? You'll see it. It's a primer you know.

And then just do away with the hose altogether. Could very well be clogged. Take it off. See I f it pumps to the outlet it was attached to. 

Just gotta see if it pumps. Go from there. Then figure out what's going on from the hose on out.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Oden said:


> Is it that the primer valve is open? Is it coming out of there then it is? You'll see it. It's a primer you know.
> 
> And then just do away with the hose altogether. Could very well be clogged. Take it off. See I f it pumps to the outlet it was attached to.
> 
> Just gotta see if it pumps. Go from there. Then figure out what's going on from the hose on out.


The priming thing is completely coated with paint. I'm gonna see if I can pull the end off of that and see what happens.

K, I'll pull the hose off this thing and see what happens. This thing is so covered in paint, you can't see any of the writing on the pump itself. I can't even tell if I'm turning the priming thing on or off.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Well, pulled the hose off. Lots of gunk in there (the pump), but the gunk was at least wet so I assume that's a good sign. Pulled the end off the primer thing, gunk in there too.

This thing hasn't been running in several years.

Still couldn't get water to come out. Gonna have to fiddle with this again tomorrow. Gotta walk the dogs.

Thanks for the help though Oden! I know the last guy that ran this thing. Hopefully when he gets out of prison, he doesn't come looking for his pump!

Thinking more about this, I'd assume that if he didn't clean it the filters would be rammed with paint? I have no idea.


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## The Cutting Edge (May 25, 2014)

Usually the handle is down when in prime. Also the handle usually pushes itself out farther when in prime mode. If that makes sense. Good luck buddy. A little practice and that things gonna make your life easier for sure. I have a 50 yr old painter helps me time to time. He never ran one in his life. Had him priming apartments in a cpl hours.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Hope so TCE. I suppose I could have read a manual before fiddling with this thing. As long as the unit itself works, that'd be great. I can't imagine the hose, gun, filters, etc. would cost much to replace. Either way, if I can't get this thing working just screwing around with trying to fix this thing will teach me something. Maybe I'll just see about buying a new or used one.


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## The Cutting Edge (May 25, 2014)

Defiantly clean the filters out. Ive got a cpl rebuilt pumps and guns sitting here I need to get rid of but I see you're in Canada. Shipping would b astronomical. The St pro models are great pumps if you can get it going.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Big determining factor will be how far I have to go to get parts. Filters, tips, etc. There's literally nowhere near here that sells any of that stuff. I'm guessing 1.5hr drive.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Big determining factor will be how far I have to go to get parts. Filters, tips, etc. There's literally nowhere near here that sells any of that stuff. I'm guessing 1.5hr drive.


Naaah if u get it pumping whatever else you can just order online, the spray mall or some other site. My mind. Get that pump to pump with what you have on hand? Or get another one. That is in working order. Something used. Or even a new entry level you don't got to spend much really. 

When ur fiddling. Just remember it's a pump, all it is, moves water from here to there, like a sump pump it's really no more complicated than that just configured a bit differently. It's not a sprayer till you put the gun on. Fiddle with it.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

Hey Wildbill, after turning it on, sometimes a few wacks with the hammer on the base will be enough to free up the ball, or the clog. Try it while priming and try it after you shut the prime valve off. Also, see if that prime valve will turn 180 degrees. Sometimes, for whatever reason, they'll stop priming well in the down angle, but fine in the up angle. Just a few more easy things to check.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Thanks for the tips guys. I might get a chance to get at this thing again today. At the end of the day it's been sitting for quite a while and looks like it was ridden hard and put away wet as they say, so it might be bunged up beyond repair. The one positive sign is that the motors running and the pistons moving I guess.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Oden said:


> That NC u were doing? Forget about it. You won't know what to do with all ur free time. Lol
> Not every case, but certain things. You are going to turn hours into minutes,
> .


 
Something else to consider is that it's not just about saving time. Something that was always drilled into my head as an apprentice was to, as much as possible, do things the easiest way I could. 

There are times when spraying isn't necessarily faster, or all that much faster all things considered. But it's just about always physically easier to do. If only in terms of material transfer. 

Say you have 15 gallons of paint to apply to the walls and ceilings in a house, or a fence or whatever. All things considered, you judge that you will only save a marginal amount of time by spraying. So the question becomes is it worth the hassle? 

I still think it is most of the time. Even if back rolling/brushing is necessary, the sprayer has still saved you from having to physically lift 180 lbs of paint out of the can and onto the surface a few ounces at a time. The pump does the heavy lifting for you. 

Doesn't sound like much but it adds up over time. Less lifting is less stress on your back and knees. As I'm getting older (a little anyway) I appreciate this aspect of it more and more. I see guys rolling big block buildings, or large expanses of drywall, slaving away dipping and spreading, and am so glad I don't ever have to do that. 

Another factor that I'm not sure guys from larger urban areas understand is the stigma that's attached to spraying in some locales. 

Coming up around here time and time again I ran into customers who thought any spray painting was "bad". Contractors who wouldn't allow spraying on their job sites, home owners who were scared to death of it. I even worked for a Managment company that oversaw maintenance painting in large condo complexes that didn't allow spraying of the buildings. We're talking 3 and 4 story multi unit condo buildings! Nope, no spraying. 

The reason for this is simple. Given a lack of tradesmen ship over all, and even more so in the painting trade where a lot of painters are self taught, the skills to use power tools like airless sprayers properly are rare. 

I'm one of the only guys around that knows how (has been trained to) use an airless sprayer. That doesn't mean I'm the only one who has tried. 

A couple self taught painters who decide they are going to be spray men one day with little or no training or study can do a lot of damage real quick. They might fog oil stain all over the windows of a new house, or overspray a dozen cars in the parking lot of a condo, or shoot a super thin coat on a building that fails within a year. The potential for disaster is great. 

In a bigger city these wanna be spray people would just be fired, or go out of business and replaced with more competent professionals. In a rural area there aren't likely any more competent professionals around to replace them with. So rather than blame a lack of skills at handling power tools, the tools themselves get blamed. 

I know that sounds odd to many of you, but such is rural life for some painters.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

'The tools themselves get blamed' 
Haha well put

Yeh and so many painters, older especially, than me at least, thing that spraying is the bull work of the trade. Little do they know how much easier it is. How bout exterior's alone for wild bill? Good lord. You are still climbing up a ladder with a cut pot and maybe a five and bulling out siding or stucko or brick or whatever? No way IMO can you afford to do that in this day and age. 
Downsizing. You know? Every business is subject to ever more downsizing to compete. Always. And that spray machine is our biggest downsizer so far. A sided house for a instance- one guy with a sprayer what equals four guys with hand tools. Assuming everyone is competent


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

I can agree with a lot of the points that both Oden and Jmays make. Very valid information.

Jmays point about being trained to spray is a good one. I don't have any training, nor do I have anyone I know that could show me how to use this thing. Other than you guys of course, and over the web that wouldn't be easy. However, like many things in the painting world I had to learn them by myself too. The first guy who trained me over a decade ago is the only painter I've ever really known. Lol. I need more friends! Either way, I could probably figure out some way to practice other than in a customers home.

Doing exteriors around here is risky. We're right on the shore of Lake Huron. This place is the windiest place I've ever lived. Even in the middle of summer it gets bad. I've had extensions shift back and forth in the wind. However, if the conditions were right on the right day I'd agree it'd be a hell of a time saver.

I'm pretty sure of the roughly dozen or so painters in this town (half of which are competent), I'm aware of one that had done exterior spraying in the past. I think he's the only one that does any spraying interior as well. Drywallers of course all spray and backroll their primer.

To be totally honest, like I said I don't know any other painters other than the guy who trained me. He was around my age, but did everything old school. No spraying, all ladder and brush. He told me that you can't spray interiors on existing construction as the paint mist would spread throughout the place no matter how well you masked it off. I've believed that for the past 12 years or so until I joined this forum. Yet another thing I've learned since joining PT.

The wealth of knowledge on this forum is incredible.


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## The Cutting Edge (May 25, 2014)

Wildbill7145 said:


> I can agree with a lot of the points that both Oden and Jmays make. Very valid information.
> 
> Jmays point about being trained to spray is a good one. I don't have any training, nor do I have anyone I know that could show me how to use this thing. Other than you guys of course, and over the web that wouldn't be easy. However, like many things in the painting world I had to learn them by myself too. The first guy who trained me over a decade ago is the only painter I've ever really known. Lol. I need more friends! Either way, I could probably figure out some way to practice other than in a customers home.
> 
> ...


I can say I was mostly self taught. But I bet 50% of the best sprayers around were as well. I watched one guy spray a ceiling when I was 18 maybe but once I saw the time it saved and the ease it took wasn't no way I was gonna do it any other way. You can do it Bill. Looking back probably the worst mistake I would make spraying was that I thought I was better than I was so I would try to cut corners trying to spray all the way up to a pc of trim or condenser without covering it up. Would spend the next 15 min scrubbing paint off. Just cover what needs covered, shoot a 50 50 pattern, run just enough pressure to get a nice fan pattern without heavy edges. You'll figure it out. It ain't frekin rocket science.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

The Cutting Edge said:


> I can say I was mostly self taught. But I bet 50% of the best sprayers around were as well. I watched one guy spray a ceiling when I was 18 maybe but once I saw the time it saved and the ease it took wasn't no way I was gonna do it any other way. You can do it Bill. Looking back probably the worst mistake I would make spraying was that I thought I was better than I was so I would try to cut corners trying to spray all the way up to a pc of trim or condenser without covering it up. Would spend the next 15 min scrubbing paint off. Just cover what needs covered, shoot a 50 50 pattern, run just enough pressure to get a nice fan pattern without heavy edges. You'll figure it out. It ain't frekin rocket science.


True. Like we keep saying on here, "it's just painting". I always tell customers if they blow it up making a colour choice, just give me a ring back and I'll come and do it again! $$$

What's a 50/50 pattern?

We need a dollar sign smiley! @Cricket!


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## The Cutting Edge (May 25, 2014)

Every stroke with the sprayer should overlap the last by 50%. So you make one stroke you should have a 10" or so stripe on the wall your next run you would aim the center of your fan rt at the top or bottom edge of your last run. Make sense? Hold your gun about 12 " from the wall when you spray and don't turn your wrist so you're spraying at an angle. Try to keep your gun at a straight 90 degrees with the wall.


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## The Cutting Edge (May 25, 2014)

Most common airless tips for latex are probably 5.17 and 5.15. The first #is the size of the fan x 2 so a 517 and a 515 spray a 10in fan a 215 tip would spray a 4" fan. The last #s are the size of the orifice. Like I said a 15 and 17 most common for latex. When u get into fine finish tips for trim and doors and such the orifice gets smaller and there are two of them in a tip so you can use a 2.11 or a 3.13 for latex. Its just less product being applied.


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