# Painting old stained trim



## Labman (Jun 12, 2011)

I have a customer who wants her interior trim and doors painted in her house. Some old pine (dark stain probably varnish) and some newer oak that the previous owner installed in the 90s (golden oak probably poly coated) needless to say nothing matches. Whats everybody's favorite primer. I use SW products. I always liked the ProBlock but store associate says to use water based multi purpose. What about the oil based (water clean up) multi purpose? I'll probably top coat with pro classic alkyd modified (love how that paint goes on and dries). Any other fun tricks for painting trim against walls that wont be painted?


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## the paintman (Feb 3, 2012)

Labman said:


> I have a customer who wants her interior trim and doors painted in her house. Some old pine (dark stain probably varnish) and some newer oak that the previous owner installed in the 90s (golden oak probably poly coated) needless to say nothing matches. Whats everybody's favorite primer. I use SW products. I always liked the ProBlock but store associate says to use water based multi purpose. What about the oil based (water clean up) multi purpose? I'll probably top coat with pro classic alkyd modified (love how that paint goes on and dries). Any other fun tricks for painting trim against walls that wont be painted?


Tricks are for kids. (any old guys remember that jingle. LOL) . And this is a real paintermans job. No tricks. Just sound advice. Do Not I mean DO NOT cut any corners on your price or bid. Or the job. It is one of the most labor intensive jobs you will do. And if not done properly it will fail over time. IN fact if you appear to have done everything properly it still might fail. These jobs are prone to failure over time. It may be a few years later, but the paint always wants to rub off of the stained and varnished trim. 

STEPS I RECCOMEND
1. SAND VERY AGGRESSIVELY AND 100%. If your using help make sure they go all the way to the bottom of doors and jambs because thats where they take a beating. 
2. Wipe with deglosser/liquid sandpaper.
3. prime with the best acrylic bonding primer you can find. Wait a day or two and give it the key test in as many places as feasible to assure bonding. 
4. Sand again as hard as you can. Especially if it failed the key test.
5. 1 coat of either really good acrylic or oil enamel. 
6. 2nd coat of paint.

Ohh I left out something BIG that most painters (and homeonwers) forget on the first one of these jobs. They rarely caulk jambs and trim for stain packages where im from. So trust me when I say it looks like crap and homeowner will die if you don't forewarn them and include all the caulking. Including the top of the base any crown or chair. Which almost forces you to paint the walls as well... Tell them up front to open thier wallet or leave the check book on the counter when they leave.

Be carefull. have fun. 

Stay Thirsty My Freind


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Let them know that it's likely to be cheaper if the paint the walls as well. That way, you can caulk as the paintman suggested. 

This summer, we had a client hire us twice: the had us do the trim and only later decided to do the walls. A costly mistake.


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## the paintman (Feb 3, 2012)

Gough said:


> Let them know that it's likely to be cheaper if the paint the walls as well. That way, you can caulk as the paintman suggested.
> 
> This summer, we had a client hire us twice: the had us do the trim and only later decided to do the walls. A costly mistake.


Ohh and while were at it they don't putty trim nail holes either.  And those pet scratches that dont show to harshly on dark trim. LOOK like sheit when you put white paint on them. It goes on and on. Can you tell I hate those jobs. Wait till they ask me to paint faux wood melamine cabinets.


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## Labman (Jun 12, 2011)

Pretty much what I was going to do. Sand, wipe with deglosser, prime, caulk, top coat. Luckily the hallway walls get painted. I've done work for her in the past and we agreed on time and materials on this job.


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## Lakesidex (Oct 9, 2011)

In the past, I've used cover stain and then a coat of slow dry oil primer for these types of jobs. But we were using oil base Satin Impervo for the finish. 
The CS grabbed well and looked great but seemed a little brittle on the soft pine. It kinda chipped off when dented on things like stairway risers. 

Wish I had the confidence in WB primers because they probably flex a lot more.


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## Lakesidex (Oct 9, 2011)

the paintman said:


> Tricks are for kids. (any old guys remember that jingle. LOL) . And this is a real paintermans job. No tricks. Just sound advice. Do Not I mean DO NOT cut any corners on your price or bid. Or the job. It is one of the most labor intensive jobs you will do. And if not done properly it will fail over time. IN fact if you appear to have done everything properly it still might fail. These jobs are prone to failure over time. It may be a few years later, but the paint always wants to rub off of the stained and varnished trim.
> 
> STEPS I RECCOMEND
> 1. SAND VERY AGGRESSIVELY AND 100%. If your using help make sure they go all the way to the bottom of doors and jambs because thats where they take a beating.
> ...


Darn good procedure!

Thank you sir.


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## MNpainter (Jul 17, 2008)

Good oil primer still best IMHO. I use BM enamel underbody, still a satin impervo guy but i could be persuaded to use a quality latex top coat, like said before, figure lots of labor.
steve


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

Cover stain the oak, BIN the pine(if it's super naughty), sand the piss out of it before and after primer and your first coat. Scratch test between coats as well.


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## AV Painting (Apr 25, 2012)

Meh, you could probably skip sanding and deglossing and just prime with oil.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

AV Painting said:


> Meh, you could probably skip sanding and deglossing and just prime with oil.


You need to kill/dull the sheen from the varnish. Give the primer something to bond/hold on too


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## carlmo (Sep 3, 2014)

@JP, I include the ol sand the piss out of it or clean the piss out off it all the time!!! Just sounded exactly like what Id say!! Made me chuckle!! I add "the piss out of it " a lot!! lol


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

AV Painting said:


> Meh, you could probably skip sanding and deglossing and just prime with oil.


With the right paints you could probably skip the oil primer and go straight to paint but it has to be clean and really dull. Using oil doesn't give you the ability to skip the prep, that is why so many jobs fail not because they didn't use product X to prime with instead. 

That being said if it were me I would do a really light coat of shellac after prep and then paint.


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## oldccm (Jan 23, 2013)

^^^^ shellac, bin, Coverstain. Any of those primers will work. Sand first but don't have to 'sand the piss out of it'


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## oldccm (Jan 23, 2013)

Lakesidex said:


> In the past, I've used cover stain and then a coat of slow dry oil primer for these types of jobs. But we were using oil base Satin Impervo for the finish.
> The CS grabbed well and looked great but seemed a little brittle on the soft pine. It kinda chipped off when dented on things like stairway risers.
> 
> Wish I had the confidence in WB primers because they probably flex a lot more.


Why would you oil prime over Coverstain?


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## Lakesidex (Oct 9, 2011)

oldccm said:


> Why would you oil prime over Coverstain?


We would "sand the piss" out of everything. Then willbond. Then Coverstain. Then sand the CS and end up burning some edges.

A full coat of a slow dry oil base primer(BM enamel underbody) over the CS would make sure everything was sealed up nice including those burned edges. 

After that second coat of primer, the trim would look solid.

I never thought the BM oil-base Satin Impervo or especially the Dulamel semi-gloss covered very well. They were kinda translucent.But with 2 coats of primer and 2 finish, the stuff looked like a million bucks.

My philosophy has always been "let the primer do the work". The paint is all show.

This was a lot of years ago and honestly the finish would still chip in places no matter what you did. But the latex products were not ready for prime time. 

Today, if it was my house, I would still probably do the same prep and prime job but use something like Advance or the Pro Classic Alkyd for the finish coat. I'm sure today there are more efficient products and processes to get the job done well without killing so many brain cells.I just can't think of any


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