# I've had enough!



## painttofish (Aug 28, 2007)

With my paintstore. I use BM for the most part and am tired of the screw ups, lousy service, lack of knowledge, and not having enough product on the shelf on a all to consistent basis. My problem is that I like (and know)the products. I am meeting the rep of a very well run store tomorrow. They carry Pittsburgh and Pratt and Lambert. I have used the Pittsburgh sun proof and manor hall and liked them. I haven't used any Pratt and Lambert that I can remember. I am looking for some feedback on your guys experience with these product lines. Mostly, Interior: drywall primer, trim paint (oil,acrylic), wall paint, ceiling paint. Also, how does the Timeless line match up to Moorlife, Duration paints. Any must try products here? They also carry the Old Master's stains and finishes as well as Cabot's and Sikkens wich I use almost as much as paint so the reward of better service with the availability of these products trumps my liking of BM paint. TIA for the info:thumbsup:


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## timhag (Sep 30, 2007)

I've use Pratt and Lambert in the past and really like it. The reason i don't use it all the time is the location of the store. They only thing i remember about using it was that it was an eggshell. Also remember thinking that if there was a store closer I would use it again.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

I use P&L interior redline all the time. I like it. Pittsburgh has a couple of good lines from what I have heard. I stop BM exterior stuff years ago. I do like the Aura interior, but for outside I am sticking with Cabot's (for now)


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

As I understand it , P&L is now owned by Sherwin Williams. I don't have a clue what that means.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

Yes P&L is owned by SW but as many of the brands they own they still operate separately


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## tsunamicontract (May 3, 2008)

bump? I want to hear more about P and L too. I just had a bad experience with Pittsburg having huge long stringy boogers in it, not super pumped about them but still, there is a P and L, PPG store in my area that seems to want my business.


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## Pete's Painting (Mar 5, 2008)

Hey Sue Nami, you realize this is just a web site. You never meant anything to me. It was just sex.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

PPG Timeless and P&L Accolade are a good match to Duration (interior). Timeless exterior is (imho) superior to Duration exterior. Speedhide primer is very good (and priced right) in fact I like the Speedhide line in general for the middle of the road type paint. P&L redseal is a ceramic based paint that I beleive is a washable flat. Never used P&L exterior.
If you are a ceiling fanatic, PPG's preminum ceiling white is great. (but expensive) Manor Hall is probably equal or slightly better than SW Super Paint. For what it's worth, PPG is one of the largest paint manufacturers in the world. Second only to Akzo Noble ( Sikkens, ICI). They spend millions on R&D and have some great products.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

bikerboy said:


> PPG Timeless and P&L Accolade are a good match to Duration (interior). Timeless exterior is (imho) superior to Duration exterior. Speedhide primer is very good (and priced right) in fact I like the Speedhide line in general for the middle of the road type paint. P&L redseal is a ceramic based paint that I beleive is a washable flat. Never used P&L exterior.
> If you are a ceiling fanatic, PPG's preminum ceiling white is great. (but expensive) Manor Hall is probably equal or slightly better than SW Super Paint. For what it's worth, PPG is one of the largest paint manufacturers in the world. Second only to Akzo Noble ( Sikkens, ICI). They spend millions on R&D and have some great products.


Hey Biker yes the red seal line does have a porcelain flat matte and eggshell but just part of the line. I use the Aqua Matte (not ceramic) and its the lowest sheen eggshell I know of and levels nicely. The product will flash patches if they are not spot primed with something. 

As I switch more to Aura interior not sure how much more of the P&L I would use. I love the Aura Matte. I have been trying to sell my interior jobs Matte finish from now on. To me the Matte finishes are as shiny as eggshell was 10 years ago... Somewhere along the line paint Co's started making eggshell so damn shiny...


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Gotta agree with the matte finishes. Duration is pretty shiny, but BM's mattes are near a flat. I sell more of the regal matte (when they want a washable) than anything, but would like to switch more people to Aura. Like Painttofish, I am not a fan of my local BM dealers, so we have been trying other paints to find a decent washable matte/flat.


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## tsunamicontract (May 3, 2008)

Pete's Painting said:


> Hey Sue Nami, you realize this is just a web site. You never meant anything to me. It was just sex.


Where did this even come from?


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## patriotpainter (Jul 31, 2008)

MAK-Deco said:


> Yes P&L is owned by SW but as many of the brands they own they still operate separately


When S.W. buys a company they slowly convert their formulas over to theres. This is how they make money. None of the companies they own (Duron, MAB, P & L, Martin Senior, Dutch Boy and who knows what else) keep their original formulas. Let's use S.W. Super Paint as a example, P & L has the exact same product on the shelf but with a P & L label, the same for Duron and the rest of them. Use this info to your advantage. I have worked in and managed paint stores for over 10 years and have been part of 2 buy outs. I worked with a ex Pratt and Lambert plant manager from the 1980's that filled me in on what S.W. did when they bought P & L.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

patriotpainter said:


> When S.W. buys a company they slowly convert their formulas over to theres. This is how they make money. None of the companies they own (Duron, MAB, P & L, Martin Senior, Dutch Boy and who knows what else) keep their original formulas. Let's use S.W. Super Paint as a example, P & L has the exact same product on the shelf but with a P & L label, the same for Duron and the rest of them. Use this info to your advantage. I have worked in and managed paint stores for over 10 years and have been part of 2 buy outs. I worked with a ex Pratt and Lambert plant manager from the 1980's that filled me in on what S.W. did when they bought P & L.


Well thank God they have yet to change the redseal and accolade lines. ( at least they don't apply and cover the same)


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## oakley (Dec 14, 2007)

Yes P & L was purchased by SW, but they do have some distinct formulations. The accolade always ranks towards the top of the consumer reports tests which SW can't brag about. Their accolade exterior semigloss lays out like an oil and their redseal interior still has flat, eggshell, and satin oils. The Prohide Gold line is similar to the Promar 200/A100 line. The Pratt interior polyurethanes and their R7 Vitralite spar varnish is so good that I have shipped them all over the country.


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## Stilts (Apr 14, 2008)

We use quite a bit of P&L. We use both prohide gold and red seal. When we were first trying it out, we all noticed that the prohide gold covered repaints much better than the red seal, I've asked a few of the guys lately though and they all seem to think the red seal is covering just fine.


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## painttofish (Aug 28, 2007)

Funny, I just read this thread http://www.painttalk.com/showthread.php?t=2674 

To bad BM can't have there service perform as well as there products IMO and apparently in others. Thanks for the responses. I had lunch with the owner of my PPG dealer today. I think I will be using a lot of manor hall in the future.


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## Boden Painting (Dec 27, 2007)

Manor Hall is great paint, flows out well. I wish PPG had a good long oil primer equal to BM 100. Nothing blocks tannin bleed as well as it does. I have a big problem with BM, my local BM store has teens working the counter. I always know more then them and am usually pointing out the product I need and then it's so expensive that it sometimes makes it difficult to get a competitive bid.


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## BMDealer (Jun 2, 2008)

Boden Painting said:


> then it's so expensive that it sometimes makes it difficult to get a competitive bid.


Hold on to your hat......another increase Sept 15th!


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## jmda (Nov 14, 2007)

*Pratt & Lambert*

I used Pratt & Lambert when a customer refused to allow us to match her P&L color with BM. We had to drive an hour to Lexington to the nearest P&L dealer. The paint was great - I really liked it. Will not use it again unless a dealer opens locally again (there was one here that went out of business several years ago).

We use almost exclusively Aura interior and exterior now. But we still use Porter for some things which is now owned by PPG and using the same color formulas (not sure if it is the same paint as Pittsburgh).


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

jmda said:


> I used Pratt & Lambert when a customer refused to allow us to match her P&L color with BM. We had to drive an hour to Lexington to the nearest P&L dealer. The paint was great - I really liked it. Will not use it again unless a dealer opens locally again (there was one here that went out of business several years ago).
> 
> We use almost exclusively Aura interior and exterior now. But we still use Porter for some things which is now owned by PPG and using the same color formulas (not sure if it is the same paint as Pittsburgh).


Which P&L line was it?


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## Libertine (Apr 6, 2008)

Going to return a P & L gallon of high gloss Urethane fortified floor paint that is bubbling. The first gallon was fine though.


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## iPaint Richmond (Oct 29, 2007)

on the topic of SW taking over, ive heard ultra delux has steadily decreased in quality since SW took over Duron ....hope my purdys dont change


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