# Which is your norm?



## michfan (Jul 6, 2008)

Ok, just had a new experience over the last few weeks. We were helping a fellow painting contractor complete a large residential remodel. He does things a little differently than us or any other contractor I have been around. He paints all the trim after the walls are completely finished. Even the crown is done this way. We have always finished the walls at the end and then finished the base after that. He says it is easier for him to cut in the backbands on the casings to the wall rather than cut in the wall to the backbands. In our 15 years of painting we have never done it this way. I am by no means saying it was a bad, because everyone has their own methods. It was just different. So, what does everyone else do? Walls first or trim first? (and no this is not a "how-do-I-paint-my-house" question!)


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

We do it as you described. You get much tighter lines cutting the walls into finished trim, and baseboard final coat last.


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> We do it as you described. You get much tighter lines cutting the walls into finished trim, and baseboard final coat last.


Ditto. :thumbsup:


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

I finish the trim completely if there will be carpet or tile installed, final coat last when it is installed over hardwood.
I will just face off the trim with some stepped on material unless the installer was leaving donkey tracks.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Ceiling, trim, walls and then a final coat on base last.


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## slickshift (Apr 8, 2007)

Trim last was how I learned, and that was The Only Way back then*
Now-a-days I'll do trim first if possible, as I also prefer to cut-in the walls last
Though there is at least one company I do some work for that still insists on trim last, and I have no problem with that

*Of course, we only used oil on the trim back then
It may have been an application issue...the latex wall paint might not have stuck to any wayward oil trim paint on the walls if we did the walls last


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## michfan (Jul 6, 2008)

The main reason they did it this way was they were worried about the latex wall paint having issues with the oil trim paint. We were using sw duration on the walls, so I don't think it would have been an issue...For me it just takes longer to cut in those pesky backbands and bottom lip of the crown. Cutting in the walls to the trim is much, much quicker. However, I didn't learn it their way either!


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

> *Of course, we only used oil on the trim back then
> It may have been an application issue...


Yup. A lot less dust in the room with finished walls.

Sometimes on heavy textured walls I'll run trim last.


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## TooledUp (May 17, 2008)

It goes to show that there's different methods in different parts of the world. Here, we finish coat all of the woodwork last. Unless it was being wallpapered then it would obviously be done first.


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## sage (Apr 29, 2007)

I've tried running the trim first but prefer to to trim last. Guess it's just habit or ole dogs not learning new tricks.
For those who are using oil on trim, are you running trim first?
Sage


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## wmass (Apr 17, 2007)

Ceiling ,trim, walls then last coat on base. That was the way I was taught. (we also used to use a lot of oil flat on walls in the 70's 6" brush)I still run trim first even with oil trim...just a light sand and never in 30 years had a problem with latex on walls adhering


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

wmass said:


> Ceiling ,trim, walls then last coat on base. That was the way I was taught. (we also used to use a lot of oil flat on walls in the 70's 6" brush)I still run trim first even with oil trim...just a light sand and never in 30 years had a problem with latex on walls adhering



Ditto for Eastern MA


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## HeatherP (Mar 27, 2008)

*ditto*

ceiling, trim, walls, baseboards.


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## urbanstain (Oct 22, 2008)

trim then walls here unless oil or a small job that i can do in 1 day ,but why base last ? i finish all trim first then tape off base so no spittle gets on them and i get a crisp line at wall to base not to mention how fast i fly through cutting in wall to base with the tape down


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## brushmstr (Feb 15, 2009)

we paint the trim first. i have always preferred the look. i do not like a thin line of trim paint showing on the wall. however, we spray 99% of our trim


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## cullybear (Mar 10, 2008)

We spray all the trim and base first without caulking the wood to the wall then we tape with a little reveal on the wood. We prime th little bit of overspray with tinted primer and then 1 last finish coat and then pull the tape to leave a laser sharp line that is unacheivable by hand. I know this is unpopular with the craftsman crowd but we have done it every way and found that this works best for us.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

Here is a link from another thread where it was discussed
http://www.painttalk.com/f22/new-construction-painting-sequence-1165/


We do it a little different, works for us, which seems to be the key!
Paint trim walls and ceiling when spraying. A lot may depend on whether you spray or roll application.


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## PinnacleResidential (Aug 10, 2008)

Ceiling, trim, walls


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> We do it as you described. You get much tighter lines cutting the walls into finished trim.


Agreed.
Tighter lines *and* faster to achieve those lines.

Doing trim last implies brushing all the trim? Forget about it.

And if I was going to brush the trim, all the more reason to cut the walls in last. Because I want to be able to flood the narrow edge of the trim adjacent to the wall board so it will cover good without having to pussy foot around, cutting it in.


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## PrecisionPainting (Feb 3, 2009)

i paint ceiling spray all trim and finish coat walls


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

michfan said:


> The main reason they did it this way was they were worried about the latex wall paint having issues with the oil trim paint.


 
All the more reason to use acrylic! :yes:

In any case it works well with oil and lacquer trim to just scuff up any trim paint that is on the walls with sandpaper. If the trim has been sprayed one needs to be there with sandpaper anyway to feather out the textury portion of the overspray where the overspray dissapates.

I learned the trim first method back in 1990 and have done it ever since with no problems.

The bigger thing to watch out for that I have seen be an issue occasionally depending on sheen and quality of wallpaint is seeing the overspray flash underneath the wall paint.

I have worked at a company that would mask the walls after spraying the primer coat to prevent this.

I dont like this method because obviously it takes longer, and it creates it's own line from the ridge of the masking tape which you are obligated to follow later when cutting in. 

Plus I really prefer flat wall paint anyway, this eliminates the possibility of seeing the trim overspray flash underneath.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Yeah when I was growing up in the seventies we always painted the trim last, but now the other way around.I think one reason people changed is because with oil paint it is easier to paint that little lip on on the side of the trim.When you paint with water base the paint doesn't want to flow off the brush as smoothly.There are other reasons also, like hardly anyone used an airless back then.Do you remember when airless sprayers first came out they were super big, weight a ton kind of things.


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

johnpaint said:


> Do you remember when airless sprayers first came out they were super big, weight a ton kind of things.


 
No, I cant say that I remember this. Sprayers have been being used as long as I have been painting. So for this reason I must offer gesture of respect.

:notworthy:

I have been painting long enough however to have worked for a contractor that made us brush out the complete exterior of houses.

Brushing in all the little corners, and rough trim, and soffets, and nails protruding through the soffets.

Brings back a shudder just thinking about it. Fortunately, I didn't know any better then, or it would have been unbearable!


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

Last Craftsman said:


> No, I cant say that I remember this. Sprayers have been being used as long as I have been painting. So for this reason I must offer gesture of respect.
> 
> :notworthy:
> 
> ...


We back brush all our cedar.. no spray... roll and BB.. we did one couple of years ago that we brushed the whole thing always feel cedar holds up better with a nice coat of solid stain brushed..


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

MAK-Deco said:


> We back brush all our cedar.. no spray... roll and BB.. we did one couple of years ago that we brushed the whole thing always feel cedar holds up better with a nice coat of solid stain brushed..


I this this is the way to go for sure, keeps the flashing and more even tone of color.I like to spray then back brush, because the sprayer can just be used to get the paint on the shingles, to me that keeps the dipping down.But at any rate (back brushing) is the way to go.It really doesn't take that much longer anyway.How about t-111 how do you guys go about this? I like to paint all the grooves first that stray the front and back roll all of it.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

johnpaint said:


> I this this is the way to go for sure, keeps the flashing and more even tone of color.I like to spray then back brush, because the sprayer can just be used to get the paint on the shingles, to me that keeps the dipping down.But at any rate (back brushing) is the way to go.It really doesn't take that much longer anyway.How about t-111 how do you guys go about this? I like to paint all the grooves first that stray the front and back roll all of it.



I don't do too many shingles jobs most of the high end homes in this area are 7in lap siding rough sawn...


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## PinnacleResidential (Aug 10, 2008)

I'll take this a step further, I have a job starting tomorrow in which the walls have already been painted and all I am doing is trim. I am charging extra for the PITA factor. I never heard of doing trim last. To each is own. I'm just glad this customer held on to the touch-up wall paint because I think I am going to go ahead and spray the trim, then re-cut the base.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

PinnacleResidential said:


> I'll take this a step further, I have a job starting tomorrow in which the walls have already been painted and all I am doing is trim. I am charging extra for the PITA factor. I never heard of doing trim last. To each is own. I'm just glad this customer held on to the touch-up wall paint because I think I am going to go ahead and spray the trim, then re-cut the base.


In repaints we always paint the base last...


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

MAK-Deco said:


> We back brush all our cedar.. no spray... roll and BB.. we did one couple of years ago that we brushed the whole thing always feel cedar holds up better with a nice coat of solid stain brushed..


 
Absolutely. We spray and backbrush exteriors also, unless the surface is completely sealed, in which case, we just backbrush the raw areas.

I was talking about working for a guy that made us brush entire exteriors without spraying first! 



The rest of the thread I was referring to interiors.


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

PinnacleResidential said:


> I'll take this a step further, I have a job starting tomorrow in which the walls have already been painted and all I am doing is trim. I am charging extra for the PITA factor. I never heard of doing trim last. To each is own. I'm just glad this customer held on to the touch-up wall paint because I think I am going to go ahead and spray the trim, then re-cut the base.


 
That is going to be a ****-ton of masking. Are you sure you want to go that route?

I just wound up having to spray the inside of a front door after the walls were done because she decided to go with a accent color other than the trim.

I masked out two rows of 12 inch paper on the walls and 3 on the ceiling. I figured that would be enough because I use a 3-10 tip for inside trim like that and the visible overspray line stops at 2-3 inches out from the trim.
So I figured the extra 20 inches of redundant masking should be enough.

the double 12 worked one direction, but the other direction the double 12 ended at a corner, and even though the overspray only came out 2-3 inches from the door on the paper, the _FOG _shot sideways and got overspray on the wall that was 24 inches from the door.

Luckily it was heavily textured wall, and I still had a wet roller, and it was just a two foot wall, so I was able to just quickly roll it out to cover the overspray.

I cant imagine worrying about that for an entire house/ceilings.

I am just trying to play devil's advocate, becuase I know when I do something I haven't ever done, or havne't done in 10 years, I usually end up learning, or relearning something I knew, then forgot! 

Even with a small tip, the ceilings will be a bitch. The reverse masking would have to come way out on the ceiling to prevent diagonal fog from getting on it.

Plus, I think if you shot a room full of trim, you might find a very light fog on some of the walls that you didnt see until you got all the masking off/the right light came in.

Just trying to be helpful and think of any possible scenarios beforehand.

I wish you success.


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## michfan (Jul 6, 2008)

PinnacleResidential said:


> I'll take this a step further, I have a job starting tomorrow in which the walls have already been painted and all I am doing is trim. I am charging extra for the PITA factor. I never heard of doing trim last. To each is own. I'm just glad this customer held on to the touch-up wall paint because I think I am going to go ahead and spray the trim, then re-cut the base.


Yea, it is definitely a PITA to paint the trim last. I especially didn't understand painting even the crown last. As mentioned in my first post, I had to conform to this guys ways, cuz we were helping him and I definitely didn't want to upset him by telling him our way was "better"! To me, it was risky dripping the white trim paint on the chocotate brown walls. It just didn't make sense. In the end it looked nice, I just felt like it took a lot longer to complete the project. It felt bassackwards.:blink:

I have never had any issues with the oil flashing back through the wall paint. We generally use decent wall paint. This guy said that he had it happen before, so that is why he switched the order to trim then walls. Like Pin said - to each his own!:thumbsup:


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

johnpaint said:


> I this this is the way to go for sure, keeps the flashing and more even tone of color.I like to spray then back brush, because the sprayer can just be used to get the paint on the shingles, to me that keeps the dipping down.But at any rate (back brushing) is the way to go.It really doesn't take that much longer anyway.How about t-111 how do you guys go about this? I like to paint all the grooves first that stray the front and back roll all of it.


 
AAAAA. I will be misunderstood! aaaargggg. Oh no! 

Seriously though, I do spray and backbrush exteriors. It is without a doubt the best way to get a full coat on everywhere fastest, and easiest.

T1-11 is a bitch. It's funny becuase I hadn't even seen any of it in like 15 years. I always thought it was on apartments and cheap track-homes. Then we did a VERY high-end house last summer where the architect used t1-11. I couldnt believe it.

It was delamming on all the bottom edges, and the HO had gone through and put a bunch of screws in the bottoms of the boards which required fairly large spackle to fill, (HO was a retired multi-millionare with a woodworking hobby) then looked much different than the rough exterior of the t1-11 which had slight sheen to it because of the solid oil stain we used. (same as was previously used)

Tried spraying and backbrushing just like I would with horizontal siding, but the grooves weren't getting enough paint. They only got enough paint by brushing in the grooves out of a cut pot, spray and backrolling the exterior.

Was kind of a bitch to do this without the grooves flashing from having dried to long after the rest got painted.

Definately a synchronized 2-man operation.

Originally they just wanted the south side re-painted. After doing that side, we suggested acrylic solid body for the rest of the house (it's HUGE) 
for both color retention, and so we wont have to wear respirators 8 hours a day while working outside.

One of the walls approaches 4 stories, still haven't figured out the staging/process for that one. There is real good access, might wind up renting a lift.

Fortunately the entire job isn't t1-11 There is a rather large carriage house with regular horizontal siding.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Yeah, I tell everyone that T-111 is the cheapest siding to install and the most expensive to upkeep.I usually add at least 1/3 to 1/2 more to repaint it,when paint will only go about 150 SF per gallon you have to.


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## painterdude (Jun 18, 2008)

ceilings, crown with lower overlap....paint the outides of door casings, walls next for straight easy cut. Paint walls and finish trim. 2 coats of base last. Start on top, work to bottom and make wall cuts easy on yourself. pd


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Casings first, then walls then baseboards and crown. Cleaner lines and besides I dont use tape.

I like the look of base and crown cut after walls. Just a personal thing.


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## MDRocket (Feb 3, 2009)

Ceilings, trim, 1 coat on walls then after floor guys and everyone is done making dust come back in clean walls do any minor point up from accidents and put on final coat. Then last is a final coat on baseboard.


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## caseysbuilding (Mar 12, 2009)

Spray trim , Ceiling, trim, walls. I had to learn the long way. Do trim last if you are getting paid by the hour.lol 
http://caseysbuilding.com


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## GA Painter (Jan 29, 2009)

do any of you 5 in 1 your wall paint to trim?


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## brightway (Mar 12, 2009)

I'm a start-up paint company and for the most part I've used an on line paint estimator, but now realize that I need to be able to bid by sq ft and hourly rates. Also I had a request for a price list and would apperciate any advice I can get. Thank you, Darryl


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