# Cedar deck theories



## Ultimate (Mar 20, 2011)

My research has led me to certain understandings. For the sake of any who may wish to use this thread for comparison and to hear other sources as well in their own research, who has a theory as to the name of the problem, the cause and the remedy. 

Just for fun. Rymar Extreme Weather clear sealer application.

Cedar wood. Stainless fasteners. Ocean front facing south. Sun bears on surface sunrise to sunset. Brutal sun in the summers. Wind. Salt air. Major storms.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

The cedar looks to be in great shape, but the fasteners are done.


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## Delta Painting (Apr 27, 2010)

Dunno if all the the fasteners are SS the ones on the spindles, skirt board look like they are awful rusty...


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

What's the question? Leaching from the nails or screws is all I see. Why or what research are you after? Your post is confusing at best.


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## Ultimate (Mar 20, 2011)

I am pretty much just looking for an accumulation of diagnostics and remedy suggestions based on the pictures provided. 

I apologize Para. Typically I would provide as much info as possible. I have a customer that was curious about the response I would get if I posted this and I did not want to lead the conversation one way or another. I already gave him my theory. 

The builder of the deck says SS was used. SS should not have an effect on cedar such as you see here. I have a theory that I suggested which was this is a formation of iron deposits causing some sort of reaction with the cedar. I told him there is a remedy. I recommended this. 

http://www.rymarindustries.com/contents/en-us/d25.html - Look for the citralic cleaner in this list. 

Either way it would be nice to not have this reappear in a matter of months. The deck, sealer and the fasteners are six months old. Again, sunrise to sunset brutality. Wind is a constant from 9 am til evening. Sand and salt ocean air. 

Hard water and non stainless or copper fasteners are bad for cedar. The deck has quite a bit of salt air accumulation as well and some stains on the flooring from wine or hard water or something. Not sure what exactly. Some boot marks as well.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

That is one beefy deck. 

If the builder is telling the truth, and the fasteners were all proper and anti corrosion, my guess would be tannin release from the fastener penetrations mixing with the salt air and sealer properties to create the streaking. Tannin release is normal in cedar around penetrations. Cleaning may require some sanding.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

John I have seen multi-million dollar beach homes in our area do this as well with stainless. In the past it wasn't cedar but rather pressure treated, and the builder claimed it was the new chemicals used to treat damaging the fasteners. :whistling2:

Personally I would rather see mechanically driven electro galvanized in these situations. Hot dipped tends to fail, and anything hand driven does as well because it knocks the galvanized coating off the nails when you drive them. 

The decking screws look ok, just the pickets and band are in bad shape. I would suggest removing and reinstalling the pickets, and coating that banding with an acrylic stain. 

Use rust destroyer on the nails and bolts in the band and set and fill nails after with your favorite filler.


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## NACE (May 16, 2008)

Galvanized or Zinc reacts with tannic acid and corrodes or blackens fasteners. Some of the cheaper Chinese fasteners in stainless have ferrous metal in them and are not 316 marine grade. Ferrous metal in conjunction with salt air will react with tannic acid and blacken cedar. Those bolt heads look galvanized. Just my opinion.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

NACE said:


> Galvanized or Zinc reacts with tannic acid and corrodes or blackens fasteners. Some of the cheaper Chinese fasteners in stainless have ferrous metal in them and are not 316 marine grade. Ferrous metal in conjunction with salt air will react with tannic acid and blacken cedar. Those bolt heads look galvanized. Just my opinion.


That's my guess as well. See this happen a lot on the Oregon coast. Cheap fasteners from China or elsewhere instead of quality items. May be SS but if they are [email protected] goin' in... well [email protected]'s coming out. Trouble is, trying to get quality SS anywhere is a [email protected] shoot these days. I'm lucky in that I have a building supply place on the coast were I can get quality marine grade SS fasteners when I'm over there working. They deal with this all the time and work to keep their customers happy.


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## Mike's QP (Jun 12, 2008)

I would use an oxalic acid based brightener to remove the marks then recoat, sand the marks out of the deck.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

A lot of stainless fasteners, especially brads, nails, I've seen rust. The stuff they sell as stainless is not real stainless


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

plainpainter said:


> A lot of stainless fasteners, especially brads, nails, I've seen rust. The stuff they sell as stainless is not real stainless


Would bet you anything it's from China. If it's made here it will be far better grade SS. I continue to make noise at my supplier about it and will continue to do so until they start listening.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

researchhound said:


> Would bet you anything it's from China. If it's made here it will be far better grade SS. I continue to make noise at my supplier about and will continue to do so until they start listening.


You'll have better luck trying shovel sh!t against the tide.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

^^^ I agree...


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

researchhound said:


> Would bet you anything it's from China. If it's made here it will be far better grade SS. I continue to make noise at my supplier about and will continue to do so until they start listening.


We can only buy what's available  Believe me, I go out of my way to find quality products made here. Then listen to guys B1tch about the cost of it


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## EricTheHandyman (Jan 29, 2008)

There are different grades of stainless, some are rated for salt exposure and some are not. If they actually used stainless, they used a lower grade.

http://www.mcfeelys.com/tech/ssteel.htm

This is one of the reasons that we use ceramic coated screws when building decks rather than galvanized.

Has your client contacted the builder?


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