# Is Painting (still)considered a skilled trade?



## delpainter (Dec 2, 2007)

I have been thinking about this for a long time, especially the way some people seem to talk or treat you and what you do, even after all this time some people still seem surprised when you tell them you do this for a living. It seems to me that our profession just keeps being devalued, more so in the residential market but I do know some builders who think painters are on par with common labor.
After 28 years in the industry and 20 years with my own business I have started to find it more taxing to justify my pricing and work, does anyone even know what quality workmanship is or what is costs to run a business? If I was a plumber or electrician people wouldn't blink when I hand them a bill, give them a fair price on something simple as a bedroom and you think I just kicked their dog. 
Just a end of the year rant


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Plainpainter should be along any second now.

This has been discussed a lot recently. Bottom line, yes some people respect quality and will pay, others will want just the lowest priced bid. Work for those you want to work for, tell the others you're booked out.

BTW - in case you missed it, this thread: http://www.painttalk.com/f2/what-happened-quality-21855/ , has pretty much been covering what you just asked.


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

Unfortunately, we live in the "you can do it, home depot can help" era. Aim for better clients is what I did.


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

It s better to have clients that have tried, and failed, than ones who have never tried ( to paint)

I just made that up. You like?
I do find those who do give it a go and isn't quite as easy as HD makes it out to be are great clients. They get it.

This is actually why i like to hang out on the DIY forum. Those folks might one day be wonderful clients for someone. They start to see...


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

BrushJockey said:


> It s better to have clients that have tried, and failed, than ones who have never tried ( to paint)
> 
> I just made that up. You like?
> I do find those who do give it a go and isn't qite as easy as HD makes it out to be are great clients. They get it.


I do like it. And there are no truer words. Some of my best customers are those who tried to do it themselves, failed miserably (or hated doing it), and now appreciate what's involved in doing it properly.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

I have found many will take on a room or two. 

Many will pay to have ceilings done, a stairway, trim and cabinets, exteriors with heights. These things they realize is too much work and are not equipped for. 

Many pay an electrician or plumber because it takes more skill, more of a learning curve, tools and equipment are too great, etc, and mistakes made can be much more catastrophic than some paint on trim or a floor.


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

There is the point that painting usually isn't life or death. ( Except for dormers..)
Sparkys job can be. 

But my wife is a nurse. Life and death. Underpaid, overworked. 
So it isn't just painters...


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

its a skilled trade when i do it ............


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

I could change the oil in my truck if I wanted to. I know how to do it. I got tools that will suffice. It'd be a little bit cheaper.

I'm not changing the oil in my truck. I go to the quick lube guy down the street. 

I'd think a average HO who opts to paint their own house isn't placing a high value on their time and maybe aren't realizing that they probably aren't saving all that much money by doing it themselves.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

In a society that thrives on communication and engineering, painting is not recognized for neither. It's no wonder that this trade is devalued to nothing more then aesthetic interpretation at the lowest possible cost. Even janitors can be considered a higher value then painters because of the daily need for environmental hygiene. Plainpainter touched on this with his example of the repeat, and successful lawn mowing men.

It would be great to only have an exclusive clientele that could sustain an average to above average income for a painter, [not including the wife's accounting job with bennies], but unless you're a painting contractor collecting a pension, and have the latitude to pick and choose, you're going to have to face the cheap and sexy eventually.

OK, I'm done channeling plainpainter.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

BrushJockey said:


> It s better to have clients that have tried, and failed, than ones who have never tried ( to paint)
> 
> I just made that up. You like?
> I do find those who do give it a go and isn't quite as easy as HD makes it out to be are great clients. They get it.
> ...


 I would rather they not try!Cause when they do paint they make a bigger mess for us pros.Theres painters and theres ainters!


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## delpainter (Dec 2, 2007)

First let me say I respect all the trades that said no trade is really that hard and yes I do speak from experience. Sure plumbing and especially electrical do have some more technical aspects but painting, wallpaper and even flooring have finer asthetic details so I think it balances out. The trades are more practice than anything else, the more you do it the better you are, once you learn the basic skills the hours spent at your trade hone your skills. 
I do agree plumbing and electrical are more daunting for people so it is easier to justify the cost.


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## TRossi88 (Dec 28, 2012)

I find that in commercial you can the experience level of a PM and a Super on how much they value the skill of a painter. New guys right out of college think paint is the easiest part of the job until the punch list comes out.


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## NewGeneration (Dec 29, 2012)

It i difficult for painters to get the respect because people know a minor portion of the painting trade.. Applying paint....... Not realizing that's the easy part that's its the prep that takes more time and determines the quality (if a skilled painter is doing the work) sure we can do a blow n go for cheap but but that requires the painter to close his eyes and disregard any morals or pride he stands by as a contractor... Seems like the trust in contractors work has gone down...and the constumers expectation for what they are paying for has diminished a little too...and that's why they want the lowballers cuz they jus want it painted....


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## Brian339 (Mar 15, 2009)

I have a saying I learned long ago. It comes to mind when questions like this are asked. I will share it with everyone. Its simple but true-

The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of a good price.

I have used that many times as part of my sales pitch when I sense a customer thinks it only boils down to actual cost. I am happy to pass it along to my fellow painters. Use it in good health.


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## NewGeneration (Dec 29, 2012)

Simply a good paint job isn't cheap and a cheap paint job isn't good......


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

“If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur.”


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## delpainter (Dec 2, 2007)

Brian339 said:


> I have a saying I learned long ago. It comes to mind when questions like this are asked. I will share it with everyone. Its simple but true-
> 
> The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of a good price.
> 
> I have used that many times as part of my sales pitch when I sense a customer thinks it only boils down to actual cost. I am happy to pass it along to my fellow painters. Use it in good health.


Love that quote I use it all the time
another I like is this


CHEAP FAST GOOD

Pick any 2 of the above but you will never get all three


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

delpainter said:


> Love that quote I use it all the time
> another I like is this
> 
> 
> ...


 

no reason why a skilled competant painter shouldnt be RESONABLE...FAST....GOOD


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## ttd (Sep 30, 2010)

delpainter said:


> I have been thinking about this for a long time, especially the way some people seem to talk or treat you and what you do, even after all this time some people still seem surprised when you tell them you do this for a living. It seems to me that our profession just keeps being devalued, more so in the residential market but I do know some builders who think painters are on par with common labor.
> After 28 years in the industry and 20 years with my own business I have started to find it more taxing to justify my pricing and work, does anyone even know what quality workmanship is or what is costs to run a business? If I was a plumber or electrician people wouldn't blink when I hand them a bill, give them a fair price on something simple as a bedroom and you think I just kicked their dog.
> Just a end of the year rant


You can do this for a living?


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

cant be fast an neat? thats like some college baseball player telling randy Johnston you cant throw over 100 an get a strike ..... practice an have the right system an the sky's the limit


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

delpainter said:


> If I was a plumber or electrician people wouldn't blink when I hand them a bill, give them a fair price on something simple as a bedroom and you think I just kicked their dog.
> Just a end of the year rant


 
other trades have an expectation of high price without having to give a song an dance...whens the last time you heard an electrician have to educate a HO'er??


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

I was in the business close to 30 years and the perception of professionalism as a skill set in the painting business has always been this way. Some of those who look at us as non-skilled will always look at us that way.

There was no way I could have control over how people perceived painters as a whole, but I could control how they perceived me as a professional. I always felt that I wasn't representing the schmucks in our profession as much as I was representing my fellow professionals as well as myself.

Some fail to realize that by owning their own business they do have a choice in the type of customer/HO they want to work with.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

It's a funny business, this painting trade. And it's impossible to generalize how every HO regards the profession and impossible to generalize the quality demanded by all people.

I am sure we all have customers that think we walk on water, and have been insulted by others who have no clue what it means to be a professional and what a quality job is.

As PWG says, shift the focus of your marketing to those that know the difference.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

That whole "get better customers" just isn't feasible for everybody....... Some people just don't have the market available to them. What do they do? Move? ..... It may sound good on paper an may have worked for a few
but in general it's a pipe dream..... Like wolf said you gotta handle yourself
Professionally an hopefully your chips will fall. Not everybody is entitled to be a successful wealthy painter.


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## delpainter (Dec 2, 2007)

Ole34 said:


> no reason why a skilled competant painter shouldnt be RESONABLE...FAST....GOOD


 That's why the quote is cheap not reasonable any good painter can deliver a fast/good/fair price job and most do it every day


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## playedout6 (Apr 27, 2009)

Most people these days are more concerned about the finish on their car than on their living room . :whistling2:


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

I do all my own auto repair, electrical, carpentry, plumbing, framing, concrete work, but it sure does piss me off if a HO thinks he can swing a brush.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

My customers still see me as a pro and appreciate what I do  Then again, I wont work for just anybody. I pick and choose the jobs I take on


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Ole34 said:


> other trades have an expectation of high price without having to give a song an dance...whens the last time you heard an electrician have to educate a HO'er??


Or a plumber or electrician ask to see any other bids so they can offer to beat them.


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## Custom Brush Co. (Jan 26, 2011)

Yes! Cause it takes a great skill to make good money at it!


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Ole34 said:


> That whole "get better customers" just isn't feasible for everybody....... Some people just don't have the market available to them. What do they do? Move? ..... It may sound good on paper an may have worked for a few
> but in general it's a pipe dream..... Like wolf said you gotta handle yourself
> Professionally an hopefully your chips will fall. Not everybody is entitled to be a successful wealthy painter.[/QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

chrisn said:


> Ole34 said:
> 
> 
> > That whole "get better customers" just isn't feasible for everybody....... Some people just don't have the market available to them. What do they do? Move? ..... It may sound good on paper an may have worked for a few
> ...


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

There better be such a thing. May only be outliers, but the goal is to be one of them.


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## pacificpainters.com (May 5, 2011)

Try telling people you teach the trade full time or you are paid to work in the Pacific to teach people the trade.

I often felt like i needed to justify that a trade teacher was required for our trade or that it is a four year apprenticeship.

It can dishearten you, but I have learned to have a thick skin.

In the end I love being a painter, and I love being a painting trainer (always felt I was a painter first, trainer second) now I am enjoying working with the industry as a consultant.

A common joke (done to death) "I always wanted to be a painter...but Dad wanted me to get a trade" usually told by carpenters on the job.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Anybody else notice the general prejudice/consensus of the general public towards painters is that we are all drunks?

What's up with that?

Like there's no such thing as a drunk carpenter, concrete guy or roofer?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

> *Is Painting (still)considered a skilled trade* *?*


I would also add that even if painting was considered as skilled a craft as other trades, people still have a tendency to minimize either the intelligence or masculinity of painters. For example, a plumber on a construction site will generally consider a painter more effeminate and passive then say the carpenter, mason, roofer, or electrician. And you'll never find an electrician that thinks a painter has any intelligence.

I'm afraid this stereotype has trickled down to homeowners too. Just think about it, a homeowner will accept a brutish plumber or roofer, but will reject a painter if he's anything other then a passive and kindly kiss ass, that'll bend at their every whim.

Just an observation. I could be wrong.....maybe


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

Thats why I sharpen my pencil and wear lipstick!


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

pacificpainters.com said:


> Try telling people you teach the trade full time or you are paid to work in the Pacific to teach people the trade.
> 
> I often felt like i needed to justify that a trade teacher was required for our trade or that it is a four year apprenticeship.
> 
> ...


Only thing worse than that is being a painter AND a drummer...


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## SteveJabbs (Jan 2, 2013)

If someone (the customer) doesn't think that painting is a skilled trade, let them spend a day with me on a painting job. I guarantee they won't make it to a 2nd day!


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

CApainter said:


> I would also add that even if painting was considered as skilled a craft as other trades, people still have a tendency to minimize either the intelligence or masculinity of painters. For example, a plumber on a construction site will generally consider a painter more effeminate and passive then say the carpenter, mason, roofer, or electrician. And you'll never find an electrician that thinks a painter has any intelligence.
> 
> I'm afraid this stereotype has trickled down to homeowners too. Just think about it, a homeowner will accept a brutish plumber or roofer, but will reject a painter if he's anything other then a passive and kindly kiss ass, that'll bend at their every whim.
> 
> Just an observation. I could be wrong.....maybe


Masculinity? I wish. We got one of the most physical jobs in the trade. Your right though. People picture something that isn't reality. In reality on jobs you will see a lot of older plumbers and electricians but the painting trade in commercial is a young mans game for the most part. Why? Cause it's physical like sports are physical.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

Painters are creative an creative people are intelligent ..... Some of the best conversations I've had have been with other painters...... Remember this all coming from a rather negative guy lol


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## Custom Brush Co. (Jan 26, 2011)

Ole34 said:


> Painters are creative an creative people are intelligent .....


The part I love about painting is it combines both the left & right brain. Everyday & every job is different. New solutions constantly have to be realized. Like improvising in jazz. Painting gets you into the moment.


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

Custom Brush Co. said:


> The part I love about painting is it combines both the left & right brain. Everyday & every job is different. New solutions constantly have to be realized. Like improvising in jazz. Painting gets you into the moment.



I'm pretty sure I'm going to cry...

( lol)


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Ole34 said:


> Painters are creative an creative people are intelligent ..... Some of the best conversations I've had have been with other painters...... Remember this all coming from a rather negative guy lol


I also believe painters are better people persons then other tradesmen. You'd have to be, to tolerate the scrutiny from self proclaimed paint inspectors that are normally nothing more then glorified DIYers. 

Being tolerant is often mistaken for having patience, which most homeowners refer to as an asset that allows a painter the ability to cut in those sharp lines they demand, but never think to associate it with the more important skill of environmental, and psycological navigation.


BTW, I'm a self proclaimed psycologist.


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## robladd (Nov 22, 2010)

Hi John, its Rob. Seen a job openings this morning at NewPort News for SSPC C-12 and C-14 Applicators.

MY BAD!!! thats a different industry. Residential, tough nut to crack? Or not...


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

We are just the hired help
Serve them, and serve them well.
Don't get a big head about it.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Custom Brush Co. said:


> The part I love about painting is it combines both the left & right brain. Everyday & every job is different. New solutions constantly have to be realized. Like improvising in jazz. Painting gets you into the moment.


 I have over 30 years in the painting industry. I still enjoy what I do. :thumbsup:


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

You can take this trade as high as you want to go.

-some might be happy being a brush and roller painter of income properties.

-others may strive to become master finishers of custom mill-work and cabinets.

-still others look for a niche area such as electrostatic painting, epoxy floor finishes or deck restoration.

-many have their own businesses,(small,medium and large) that employ other painters in new construction,residential re-paints,industrial,commercial. the opportunities are great if you look for them.

this is similar to many professions in that you could start out at the bottom but end up in a high management position. it's up to the single individual to get the experience and education required to further their career goals.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Xmark said:


> You can take this trade as high as you want to go.
> 
> -some might be happy being a brush and roller painter of income properties.
> 
> ...


You should be an inspirational speaker representing the paint trade Xmark.


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

Xmark said:


> You can take this trade as high as you want to go.
> 
> -some might be happy being a brush and roller painter of income properties.
> 
> ...


 So true, i've painted thousands of rooms at disney, hotel is Puerto Rico, Convention Center Charlotte, casino in new orleans and now at 53 have found happiness in residential repaints for myself ... with a small crew

It's not a easy trade, has it's ups & downs:whistling2: but i still feel good when i am finished and the 2 best parts are when the homeowner is happy and when the check clears


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## DanielMDollaPainting (Feb 24, 2011)

TJ Paint said:


> Anybody else notice the general prejudice/consensus of the general public towards painters is that we are all drunks?
> 
> What's up with that?
> 
> Like there's no such thing as a drunk carpenter, concrete guy or roofer?


 Cause most are, and the ones that aren't are twice the price.lol. Half of America needs a recreational drug every day to function.


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## DanielMDollaPainting (Feb 24, 2011)

My dad painted for 50 years. He said to me "sure anyone can paint but can they make a living at it." He also said to me" Some will think your worth your weight in gold while others not so much. Raising 5 kids and supporting his stay at home wife, I don't know how he did it. I know he had to swallow a lot of crap and do jobs he didn't want to to make ends meet. We never had a lot of money when I was young but he made sure we had what we needed.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

DanielMDollaPainting said:


> Cause most are,



I guess this explains it...


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

delpainter said:


> I have been thinking about this for a long time, especially the way some people seem to talk or treat you and what you do, even after all this time some people still seem surprised when you tell them you do this for a living. It seems to me that our profession just keeps being devalued, more so in the residential market but I do know some builders who think painters are on par with common labor.
> After 28 years in the industry and 20 years with my own business I have started to find it more taxing to justify my pricing and work, does anyone even know what quality workmanship is or what is costs to run a business? If I was a plumber or electrician people wouldn't blink when I hand them a bill, give them a fair price on something simple as a bedroom and you think I just kicked their dog.
> Just a end of the year rant


 Goverment also fines it more taxing! Thats another end of the year rant.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Xmark said:


> You can take this trade as high as you want to go.
> 
> -some might be happy being a brush and roller painter of income properties.
> 
> ...


 I started at the bottom and ended up on the ceiling!


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

Y'know- as I was rolling out that one brazillion s'ft ceiling , I says to myself- "things are looking up"!

Knee slap emoticon insert..


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