# True AAA gun on 395 fp update



## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Here is my tip after 30 passage doors and over 100 cabinet doors, drawers, moldings, etc. the only cleaning has been to run a single edge razor through the orifice slot prior to spraying. The pump and gun has had paint in it for at least 2 weeks straight with zero flushing of the pump. I did run the razor across the air cap once or twice to remove overspray dust but it was very minimal and did not interfere with spraying. 



Results? Zero clogs, spits, drips, etc. this is with regular acrylic trim enamel. 

E


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Dude, THATS what I need! Are you still running with the G40? Who's air cap is that?


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

That is a ca tech cougar gun. Rated to 2000 psi fluid pressure. Since I am staying with fluid at 1200-1300 psi, stay away from the bobcat which has lower fluid pressure specs. A kremlin would probably work as well, did not check their specs. 

This does not bring down the fluid pressures to true AAA pressures, but solves other issues. I know some have said the flat tip would be problematic with wb paint, so far not an issues and I pushed the cleaning limits fairly far.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Thanks Dean. I'm still going to try the Graco conversion, just need to look up the part numbers.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

I have to say though, I suspect you were getting less buildup than me. I don't remember any real noticeable amount last summer at your shop. Unless you were cleaning the gun when I wasn't looking?


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## bloodnut (Nov 11, 2009)

+1 flat tip conversion = awesome spray work!:thumbup:


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

bloodnut said:


> +1 flat tip conversion = awesome spray work!:thumbup:


I've posted this before, but this was after about five minutes at the most of spraying with my new finish pro. I still love the unit, as it gives a great finish. But the build up with the reversible tips is frustrating to say the least.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Paul I am still looking a doing one as well. I have noticed that spraying oil enamel isn't nearly as bad as other enamels like acrylic. 

Stinks to have to buy one, and tips as well. Getting that and the ones I would need would be several hundred. I think graco should send us one for free so we will stop complaining.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Paul,

Around the time I gave up in WB clears in the FinishPro my employee sprayed paint with it and had either over or under tightened the guard. It leaked paint. I found a partial air passage blockage when I swapped guns out. This might explain why I needed 2000 psi to eliminate tails even with air and the higher pressure reduced buildup.


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## optimal (Feb 5, 2010)

Dean,
I was looking at purchasing the graco 395 aaa. I have heard about the problems with the tips clogging. I see your now running the ca gun with your pump. What are the advantages of this system compared to just a binks 2001 and a pot. I was looking at the graco 395 for a large job with doors,trim, paneling and coffered ceilings. Is the aaa and the ca gun combo the way to go?

Is there any word about these guns connected to the 395.

http://www.binks.com/Products/SprayGuns/ManualSprayGuns/AirAssistAirless.aspx


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## bloodnut (Nov 11, 2009)

You guys need to get rid of your reverse able tips, they are crap, clog madly & produce fantastic tails, go the flat tip conversion on the g40 gun, you wont look back.:thumbsup:


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

optimal said:


> Dean,
> I was looking at purchasing the graco 395 aaa. I have heard about the problems with the tips clogging. I see your now running the ca gun with your pump. What are the advantages of this system compared to just a binks 2001 and a pot. I was looking at the graco 395 for a large job with doors,trim, paneling and coffered ceilings. Is the aaa and the ca gun combo the way to go?
> 
> Is there any word about these guns connected to the 395.
> ...


I tend to use hvlp for furniture, dye stained, and BIN in the shop. For me and how I thin and adjust stuff, it is a bit too slow and hard to keep a wet enough edge on larger items. Without air exhaust, HVLP tends to fog a room pretty good for me, again this could be a limit based on how I adjust things. I do have a Binks pressure pot and mach1 setup.

For me, the next pump I buy, of I ever do would be a kremlin/ ca tech/ true AAA unit for shop work. The Finish pro with a flat tip set up would then move to the field to replace a regular 395 airless. I will probably stay with what I have for a bit if I can show some purchasing restraint this year, however.

I have no experience with the Binks AAA guns.


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## DK Remodeling (Mar 22, 2013)

DeanV said:


> That is a ca tech cougar gun. Rated to 2000 psi fluid pressure.


Just out of curiosity. How much is that spray gun?


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

What's the difference between the g40 converted gun and the kremlin or your model lets say? 

Air inlet, fluid inlet. needle for fluid and air. ?? Better air horn setup?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Glad to hear it, Dean. I don't want to jinx you, but hopefully the Veltman curse is hereby lifted!


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

DK Remodeling said:


> Just out of curiosity. How much is that spray gun?


Around $460.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

woodcoyote said:


> What's the difference between the g40 converted gun and the kremlin or your model lets say?
> 
> Air inlet, fluid inlet. needle for fluid and air. ?? Better air horn setup?


They should be similar.


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## Billinor (Aug 7, 2013)

DeanV said:


> Here is my tip after 30 passage doors and over 100 cabinet doors, drawers, moldings, etc. the only cleaning has been to run a single edge razor through the orifice slot prior to spraying. The pump and gun has had paint in it for at least 2 weeks straight with zero flushing of the pump. I did run the razor across the air cap once or twice to remove overspray dust but it was very minimal and did not interfere with spraying.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry to bump up an old thread. I'm thinking about getting a Cougar so I can use my Ultra 395 as an AA rig. If you don't mind me asking: what paint, tip and did you need to thin? 

TIA, Bill


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## MIZZOU (Nov 18, 2012)

Billinor said:


> Sorry to bump up an old thread. I'm thinking about getting a Cougar so I can use my Ultra 395 as an AA rig. If you don't mind me asking: what paint, tip and did you need to thin?
> 
> TIA, Bill


I'm thinking about getting a cougar too! Oh wait, I think we're talking about something different...


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I have 309 and 311 tips that I mainly use on that gun. For paint 311 or 411 would be a good start and maybe a 313 or 413. The 309 is usually for thinner clears or WB lacquers. 

I tend not to think products too often. I have started check viscosity on some stuff, but not house paint trim enamels. If you need to thin, it should just be a little.


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## paintcore.ca (Apr 5, 2010)

Haven't replied to a thread in a min. We have been using the bobcat gun on our multi finish for over a year now. Way better then the 3600 gun it came with. Trigger pull is lighter, build up is much less and the finish comes out as good as our ca tech pump and our kremlin. That being said the clean up compared to a pneumatic pump is a hassle and flat tips are considerably more expensive. Are go to tip is a 411. We are able to spray kem aqua at 1100 psi with out an issue with the multi finish. My main concern with electric pumps like the titans and Gracos is the constant maintaining and trouble shooting. I honestly never have an issue with pneumatic pumps. Our ca tech is 3 years old and hasn't been serviced once.it works the same every single day Just have to clean it daily which takes 5 min. Its has a stainless steel fluid section so we just leave water in it. Same go's for the kremlin. We ended up picking up ca techs on site pump with built in compressor and bobcat and so far we are extremely pleased with the ease of use and results.


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## more_prep (Dec 7, 2009)

I have four different AAA guns that I use various pumps with, including a 395 ST Pro. The guns are: Binks AA-1500, Binks AA-4000, Kremlin MVX, and CAT Bobcat. All of these work great for WB lacquers and polyurethane, but not always for paint. With the exception of the Binks AA-4000, all of these guns are limited to 1500 psi fluid pressure (1750 psi for Kremlin). I have recently been getting better results spraying Advance with straight alrless because I can use a 310FFT or 208FFT and drive the pressure up to 3300 psi for better atomization. With the AAA, the air does not seem to make up for the lower fluid pressure with certain thicker coatings. For thinner coatings, around 45 sec in a Ford #4 cup, the AAA is nice. The CAT tips are priced lower than the others, but Graco RAC-X FFT's are the most cost-effective by far. Of these guns, the Kremlin MVX is the nicest. If you get a Graco G40 or Binks AA-4400M, then you have the option of using high fluid pressures. I still thin paint 5-8% or so, but many don't thin. 

The G40 with RAC-X guard might be a good solution for paint, allowing you to use RAC-X tips, but it probably won't be as good for fine finishing as the flat-tip option. All of the flat tip aircap designs are now essentially clones of the Kremlin. I don't see much difference in performance between my Kremlin, Binks, and CAT guns. I have the feeling that Kremlin tips are higher quality. Comparing older Binks 113-series tips with newer 114-series tips, there is a huge difference in pattern uniformity and atomization: tips make a difference.


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## paintcore.ca (Apr 5, 2010)

more_prep said:


> I have four different AAA guns that I use various pumps with, including a 395 ST Pro. The guns are: Binks AA-1500, Binks AA-4000, Kremlin MVX, and CAT Bobcat. All of these work great for WB lacquers and polyurethane, but not always for paint. With the exception of the Binks AA-4000, all of these guns are limited to 1500 psi fluid pressure (1750 psi for Kremlin). I have recently been getting better results spraying Advance with straight alrless because I can use a 310FFT or 208FFT and drive the pressure up to 3300 psi for better atomization. With the AAA, the air does not seem to make up for the lower fluid pressure with certain thicker coatings. For thinner coatings, around 45 sec in a Ford #4 cup, the AAA is nice. The CAT tips are priced lower than the others, but Graco RAC-X FFT's are the most cost-effective by far. Of these guns, the Kremlin MVX is the nicest. If you get a Graco G40 or Binks AA-4400M, then you have the option of using high fluid pressures. I still thin paint 5-8% or so, but many don't thin.
> 
> The G40 with RAC-X guard might be a good solution for paint, allowing you to use RAC-X tips, but it probably won't be as good for fine finishing as the flat-tip option. All of the flat tip aircap designs are now essentially clones of the Kremlin. I don't see much difference in performance between my Kremlin, Binks, and CAT guns. I have the feeling that Kremlin tips are higher quality. Comparing older Binks 113-series tips with newer 114-series tips, there is a huge difference in pattern uniformity and atomization: tips make a difference.


I don't see much of a difference either. Binks, Kremiln and cat make great products. With my kremlin I do notice the build quality and a few more features that drives the cost up but all in all they both provide me with great finish quality. I agree with spraying acrylics and hybrids through an airless, you really need that higher pressure. I pay around $80 CND for my flat tips. I use the cat ones for both the bobcats and the excite. We still use one ff411 that's 2 years old and has a ton of lacquer through it. For the 80 bucks it's worth it. I find that the 09 orifice size on flat tips to be a problem though. Always clogging on me and breaking down, even with thin WB clears. But 411 and up no problems at all. We sprayed advanced last week with a trade works 150 and a fine finish 411 green graco turned out mint. I really caught feelings for that little pump. I have bought a few for off shoot projects were I don't want to use the good stuff, and honestly that pump is worth every dollar. I think it's the best product graco makes considering the price.


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## more_prep (Dec 7, 2009)

paintcore.ca said:


> ... I find that the 09 orifice size on flat tips to be a problem though. Always clogging on me and breaking down, even with thin WB clears. But 411 and up no problems at all. We sprayed advanced last week with a trade works 150 and a fine finish 411 green graco turned out mint.


I often use a CAT 207FF in my Kremlin MVX without any clogging issues. I have a fine mesh gun filter which seems to prevent clogs very well. Not a tip filter -- those can cause micro bubbles -- but just the gun filter. 

Speaking of Advance, I couldn't get good results with AAA for the reasons I mentioned, but went airless on the recommendation of a few guys here, and got better results. I used a 310FF RAC-X at 3000 psi. Orange peel was better with the airless and thinning 3%, but still not the mirror finish I expect and routinely achieve with Kem Aqua. I think I will have to thin the max 6% and try a 208FF for better atomization. Puzzled over why I can't get that mirror smooth finish with Advance. Most people wouldn't notice, but it's just not what it should be. These are verticals. Various primers, sanded flat to 400 grit. I think I need to atomize more because thinning and increased pressure help.


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## paintcore.ca (Apr 5, 2010)

more_prep said:


> I often use a CAT 207FF in my Kremlin MVX without any clogging issues. I have a fine mesh gun filter which seems to prevent clogs very well. Not a tip filter -- those can cause micro bubbles -- but just the gun filter.
> 
> Speaking of Advance, I couldn't get good results with AAA for the reasons I mentioned, but went airless on the recommendation of a few guys here, and got better results. I used a 310FF RAC-X at 3000 psi. Orange peel was better with the airless and thinning 3%, but still not the mirror finish I expect and routinely achieve with Kem Aqua. I think I will have to thin the max 6% and try a 208FF for better atomization. Puzzled over why I can't get that mirror smooth finish with Advance. Most people wouldn't notice, but it's just not what it should be. These are verticals. Various primers, sanded flat to 400 grit. I think I need to atomize more because thinning and increased pressure help.


I think you tip size is two small with advance. It's prob over atomizing. Try a 411 / 413. And I think you can thin more then 6%.


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## more_prep (Dec 7, 2009)

paintcore.ca said:


> I think you tip size is two small with advance. It's prob over atomizing. Try a 411 / 413. And I think you can thin more then 6%.


Thanks -- I now get a glass smooth finish with a 208FF at 3000psi, airless, thinning 6% (8 oz water per gallon). Seemed to be under-atomizing with the 310FF. However, I know most people use larger tips, and say they get good results. See the thread "Spraying BM Advance Question" for more details... I would be very interested in an explanation, and maybe yours is on target. Big droplets don't dry at all in the air, which might lead to better flowout. Most waterbornes can be thinned up to 15 to 20%, but Advance TDS says otherwise.


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## paintcore.ca (Apr 5, 2010)

more_prep said:


> Thanks -- I now get a glass smooth finish with a 208FF at 3000psi, airless, thinning 6% (8 oz water per gallon). Seemed to be under-atomizing with the 310FF. However, I know most people use larger tips, and say they get good results. See the thread "Spraying BM Advance Question" for more details... I would be very interested in an explanation, and maybe yours is on target. Big droplets don't dry at all in the air, which might lead to better flowout. Most waterbornes can be thinned up to 15 to 20%, but Advance TDS says otherwise.


What ever works! It all depends on the environment as well. As long as you get the results that's all that matters at the end of the day. I don't spray advance to much. Cure time is brutal but when I did I thinned approx 10%. I prefer to lay on a thin but wet coats. I find that 3000 psi is very high and could cause micro foaming. I prefer a more gentler approach. But it's all about the results. If its glass smooth that's all that matters!!


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

3000 psi is really high for most trim enamels. I am sure atomization is fine, but there is goign to be a lot of bounce back/overspray at those psi ratings.


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## paintcore.ca (Apr 5, 2010)

DeanV said:


> 3000 psi is really high for most trim enamels. I am sure atomization is fine, but there is goign to be a lot of bounce back/overspray at those psi ratings.


I agree the bounce back and overspray would be a lot. I can't imagine spraying the inside of a cabinet box with that power!


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## more_prep (Dec 7, 2009)

I ended up at 3000 psi after comparing samples using a 310FF sprayed at 1500, 2000, and 3000 psi. The 3000 was smoother, but still a bit textured. But it does seem extreme. I just stuck with 3000 after going down to the 208FF. Maybe I can back off. The overspray does go a lot further at this pressure, but transfer efficiency isn't that bad. Advance sprays nothing like Kem Aqua, which I can use my AAA with at 600 psi, with about any tip. What trim enamel has worked well for you? What setup? I'm thinking of trying Shercryl HPA...


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Just sent in a request for some shercryl HPA. I am testing out several enamels next week and letting them full cure to see what SWP really has. They have a lot of enamels that I have yet to test out.


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## bbair (Nov 18, 2012)

I don't even prime drywall at 3000 psi. 

Sent from my iPhone using PaintTalk


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## more_prep (Dec 7, 2009)

straight_lines said:


> Just sent in a request for some shercryl HPA. I am testing out several enamels next week and letting them full cure to see what SWP really has. They have a lot of enamels that I have yet to test out.


I'm very impressed with Sher-Wood products (yet another division), and what I see in the TDS's for the Pro-Industrial line also looks promising. I have a gallon of Sher-Wood Kem Aqua BP Enamel to try also. It's an interior-exterior product for metal doors, designed for spraying. In addition to SherCryl HPA, the Pro-Industrial waterborne epoxy and the acrylic coating look promising.

Look forward to hearing your results.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> Just sent in a request for some shercryl HPA. I am testing out several enamels next week and letting them full cure to see what SWP really has. They have a lot of enamels that I have yet to test out.


And??


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> And??


My rep never got me the shercryl. Thanks for the reminder. 

Solo is looking sweet after the cure. Had issues getting 0 industrial to play nice.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

more_prep said:


> I have four different AAA guns that I use various pumps with, including a 395 ST Pro. The guns are: Binks AA-1500, Binks AA-4000, Kremlin MVX, and CAT Bobcat. All of these work great for WB lacquers and polyurethane, but not always for paint. With the exception of the Binks AA-4000, all of these guns are limited to 1500 psi fluid pressure (1750 psi for Kremlin). I have recently been getting better results spraying Advance with straight alrless because I can use a 310FFT or 208FFT and drive the pressure up to 3300 psi for better atomization. With the AAA, the air does not seem to make up for the lower fluid pressure with certain thicker coatings. For thinner coatings, around 45 sec in a Ford #4 cup, the AAA is nice. The CAT tips are priced lower than the others, but Graco RAC-X FFT's are the most cost-effective by far. Of these guns, the Kremlin MVX is the nicest. If you get a Graco G40 or Binks AA-4400M, then you have the option of using high fluid pressures. I still thin paint 5-8% or so, but many don't thin.
> 
> The G40 with RAC-X guard might be a good solution for paint, allowing you to use RAC-X tips, but it probably won't be as good for fine finishing as the flat-tip option. All of the flat tip aircap designs are now essentially clones of the Kremlin. I don't see much difference in performance between my Kremlin, Binks, and CAT guns. I have the feeling that Kremlin tips are higher quality. Comparing older Binks 113-series tips with newer 114-series tips, there is a huge difference in pattern uniformity and atomization: tips make a difference.


Do you own the Binks AA4000M? I have been wanting to buy one and make a AA set up with my Graco 490.

How are the spray tips priced compared to the flat tips used on the G40?


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## more_prep (Dec 7, 2009)

Yup -- that is the first gun I owned. It works very well, especially with the new Binks fine finish tips. I used it with the Graco ST electric pump. The one problem with the AA4000 is that the needle is made of solid carbide (to take the pressure). When you pull the trigger, the needle flexes. Carbide is brittle, so eventually the needle breaks, and you have to buy another needle cartridge for $120. This is kind of outrageous, given the design flaw. The AA4000 is the same gun as the AA1500, but with the carbide needle instead of the stainless steel needle. Binks tips are only available through finishing suppliers, and usually have to be ordered. They cost $80-$90. The AA4400M is the new model high pressure gun that fixes the needle problem with the AA4000. The other issue with the carbide needle is that waterbornes tend to corrode it, so it has to be cleaned periodically, or it will drip.



ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> Do you own the Binks AA4000M? I have been wanting to buy one and make a AA set up with my Graco 490.
> 
> How are the spray tips priced compared to the flat tips used on the G40?


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

more_prep said:


> Yup -- that is the first gun I owned. It works very well, especially with the new Binks fine finish tips. I used it with the Graco ST electric pump. The one problem with the AA4000 is that the needle is made of solid carbide (to take the pressure). When you pull the trigger, the needle flexes. Carbide is brittle, so eventually the needle breaks, and you have to buy another needle cartridge for $120. This is kind of outrageous, given the design flaw. The AA4000 is the same gun as the AA1500, but with the carbide needle instead of the stainless steel needle. Binks tips are only available through finishing suppliers, and usually have to be ordered. They cost $80-$90. The AA4400M is the new model high pressure gun that fixes the needle problem with the AA4000. The other issue with the carbide needle is that waterbornes tend to corrode it, so it has to be cleaned periodically, or it will drip.


Have you tried their reversible tips? I see those are priced the same as Graco's.


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## more_prep (Dec 7, 2009)

No, sorry. I've been using the Kremlin MVX most of the time, and just an airless gun with Green FF Graco tips. I think I ruined one of my Binks FF tips by cleaning it with a razor blade...it was awesome at first, now pattern is rounder.
I would be inclined toward Graco given the availability of tips. But it's harder to score a deal on the G40 gun.



ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> Have you tried their reversible tips? I see those are priced the same as Graco's.


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## BBWC (Sep 13, 2009)

Anyone have any luck removing the tip filter on the Graco flat tips? I removed it and my fan is a mess, just a circle and can't adjust it. Put it back in and it's fine. They are just pita especially when the clog is between the filter and the tip.


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