# picnic table clear coat



## doctors11 (May 17, 2010)

We just built a table for a screened in porch out of old reclaimed pine (not pressure treated). It's been planed, sanded, cleaned and stained with minwax oil stain. According to Minwax, if it's in an outdoor setting it needs Spar Varnish for protection rather than Poly. Apparently the varnish has some UV protection and remains somewhat flexible. I'm guessing there's probably better products out there for this. I've got a SW, BM, and Lowes in town. The table will be on the porch year round, and will occasionally get wet, some direct sun, and temperature extremes.
Any advice?
Thanks ahead of time.
Dan


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

put some epoxy or urethane on it


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

doctors11 said:


> Lowes


Mom. Mom are you there? Wheres momma Chris when you need a DIY thread closed...........Lowes.....nuff said :thumbup:


----------



## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

NCPaint1 said:


> Mom. Mom are you there? Wheres momma Chris when you need a DIY thread closed...........Lowes.....nuff said :thumbup:


Oh, hush and answer the question! I was wondering what to use myself!


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Helmsman Spar?


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Sikkens Cetol Marine Varnish. Good stuff, but spendy. Probably $30/qt or more


----------



## MNpainter (Jul 17, 2008)

BM Spar. the only thing I have used that works. steve


----------



## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Based on the amount of failing clear coats on tables I have seen out doors at campgrounds and the like, I would say just use a semi-trans and call it good with the possible except of if it is under an overhang or taken inside for the winter.


----------



## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

MNpainter said:


> BM Spar. the only thing I have used that works. steve


Eventually ( and not that long) all varnish types will fail. And it will be a POS to fix. Treat it like a deck and use a penetrating sealer that will wear away, not chip away.


----------



## The Paint Doctor (Jun 1, 2010)

TJ Paint said:


> put some epoxy or urethane on it


 
DO NOT PUT EPOXY ON IT AS IT WILL CHALK AND YELLOW.


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

The Paint Doctor said:


> DO NOT PUT EPOXY ON IT AS IT WILL CHALK AND YELLOW.


Pretty sure he was making a joke. :jester:


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

BrushJockey said:


> Eventually ( and not that long) all varnish types will fail. And it will be a POS to fix. Treat it like a deck and use a penetrating sealer that will wear away, not chip away.


I believe its a covered porch from the OP's post. Anything that sits outside will require maintenance, be it a sealer or a finish. Finishes arent that bad, they fail because people dont take care of them.


----------



## doctors11 (May 17, 2010)

Hey NCPaint1. Do you think the clear Arborcoat would work?

I appreciate all the replies. I knew I'd get at least 1 DIY referral...thats ok I probably would have done the same...I do mostly interior painting so wasn't sure the best way to handle this. With all the decks I do I agree a semitransparent would have been the way to go but they wanted the table to match the color of their hardwood floors (even though 2 dif species:whistling2:. Sometimes ya just gotta make 'em happy.


----------



## Dearco Man (Feb 24, 2010)

To bad you stained it with Minwax. A great option for picnic tables and other outdoor furniture is Sikkens Cetol 1 but it should be applied to bare wood. Apply 3 coats of Cetol 1 paying special attention to the end grains of the wood especially the end grains exposed to the bare ground. Follow up with maintenance coats every few years depending on exposure. You may even get some jobs out of the deal when your friends see how nice your outdoor furniture looks.


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

doctors11 said:


> Hey NCPaint1. Do you think the clear Arborcoat would work?


I dont see why it wouldn't. Is it the best option? IMO....no. It has such a light finish its hardly noticeable, plus it needs to be done yearly. It would work if thats the look that they want. If they want a "finished" furniture look, definitely an exterior varnish. I recommended the Sikkens because around here I sell it mostly for boats, and swim platforms, so it may be overkill for a table. It's still going to require maintenance though. Sikkens recommends every 3-5 years applying a maintenance coat. I say, look at it every year, if it starts to look worn ( even slightly ) re-coat it. 1 qt would probably coat this thing 6 times at least :thumbup: How big is it?


----------



## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

NCPaint1 said:


> Mom. Mom are you there? Wheres momma Chris when you need a DIY thread closed...........Lowes.....nuff said :thumbup:


Hey closing DIY threads is my thing. :laughing:


----------



## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

Workaholic said:


> Hey closing DIY threads is my thing. :laughing:


I left it for ya!


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Workaholic said:


> Hey closing DIY threads is my thing. :laughing:


No, you just prematurely close the awesome ones before we get a chance to have fun.

workaholic = fun police


----------



## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

NCPaint1 said:


> No, you just prematurely close the awesome ones before we get a chance to have fun.
> 
> workaholic = fun police


If you are good boys, we'll bring out a few art threads after Bill goes to bed!:whistling2:

We can celebrate Neps' 1,000th!


----------



## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

NCPaint1 said:


> No, you just prematurely close the awesome ones before we get a chance to have fun.
> 
> workaholic = fun police


That is a new one.


----------



## NACE (May 16, 2008)

Benjamin Moore Arborcoat 636 Clear


----------



## painterman (Jun 2, 2007)

Try Bristol Amber finish...if it good for boats it should work on a picnic table!


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

The Paint Doctor said:


> DO NOT PUT EPOXY ON IT AS IT WILL CHALK AND YELLOW.


not if you put a urethane clear over it


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

TJ Paint said:


> not if you put a urethane clear over it


I dunno man, dont urethane's yellow outside? Chances are you wont notice it since its stained. Plus, I dont think you can get those products in less than gallon sizes...at least the companies I sell you cant.

I do everything on the "KISS" method

*K*eep
*I*t
*S*imple
*S*tupid


----------



## doctors11 (May 17, 2010)

It measures 37" x 60", legs are 4" x 6". I called local BM dealer and asked about the Sikkens and BM varnishes. They don't stock either but can order them. Apparently the Sikkens is a dark amber color so not sure if that would fly with homeowner. Dealor said they do stock McClosky marine spar varnish and have had good results with it. I googled it and found out it's owned by Valspar/Cabot. Would that be enough reason to stay away from it?
My understanding on urathanes is that they harden and will crack if any movement in the wood. Plus, apparently they don't offer any UV protection.
Sikkens does make a clear but it states in the tech bulliten that it can only be used over a minimun of 2 coats of the marine varnish.


----------



## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I've used the following product with good results.https://www.hardwareworld.com/Semi-Gloss-Exterior-Polyurethane-Quart-pKZR3CY.aspx One thing I don't like about Diamond, is it's too clear. I like a little more amber, which Zars exterior waterborne polyurethane claims to have more of. I have never tried Zars.

Since the table would probably not be coated 100%, I would want something a little more flexible and able to breath.

Hopefully, our PT wood experts can give you a more precise answer.


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

doctors11 said:


> Apparently the Sikkens is a dark amber color so not sure if that would fly with homeowner. Sikkens does make a clear but it states in the tech bulliten that it can only be used over a minimun of 2 coats of the marine varnish.


Stain a scrap and do a test. It has a slight amber, but I personally wouldnt call it dark.


----------



## doctors11 (May 17, 2010)

I'll stop in this weekend with my test piece and a couple of cold beers:yes:


----------



## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

For a wood picnic table, I always recommend a clear finish vs a stain alone. Main reason, you want to be able to wipe it down when you want and you want a smooth surface to be able to "slide around" on when you sit. Stains are flat, and if you do stain it to change the color of the wood, that's great, but I would recommend to put a clear finish over. I would use a varnish over a poly for several reasons. The flexing thing doesn't matter on tables, they don't flex like the side of a house, log oil is the softest for that, I would only recommend a varnish over a poly, because it's MUCH easier and more forgiving to work with. If you were a pro with a lot of poly experience, I would say to use Dethane oil based polyurethane, a much harder, more durable finish. But varnish is more user friendly. So my fav. spar varnish is cabot's spar varnish. the same makers as man'o'war spar varnish but half the price. i retail it at my store for 34.95 a gallon. defthane poly retails for 47.95 a gallon!!!!


----------



## The Paint Doctor (Jun 1, 2010)

hammerheart14 said:


> For a wood picnic table, I always recommend a clear finish vs a stain alone. Main reason, you want to be able to wipe it down when you want and you want a smooth surface to be able to "slide around" on when you sit. Stains are flat, and if you do stain it to change the color of the wood, that's great, but I would recommend to put a clear finish over. I would use a varnish over a poly for several reasons. The flexing thing doesn't matter on tables, they don't flex like the side of a house, log oil is the softest for that, I would only recommend a varnish over a poly, because it's MUCH easier and more forgiving to work with. If you were a pro with a lot of poly experience, I would say to use Dethane oil based polyurethane, a much harder, more durable finish. But varnish is more user friendly. So my fav. spar varnish is cabot's spar varnish. the same makers as man'o'war spar varnish but half the price. i retail it at my store for 34.95 a gallon. defthane poly retails for 47.95 a gallon!!!!


Cabot has become the BUST of product lines, they are so overrated, and if its underpriced, it will probably under perform.

The Sikkens Marine Varnish is the only choice if you're willing to do it right.


----------



## The Paint Doctor (Jun 1, 2010)

TJ Paint said:


> not if you put a urethane clear over it


Why would you put a clear epoxy on first and then a urethane? Thats very bad advice. The guy wants to do it right. The problem with "Epoxy" is everyone thinks because you have to mix stuff together and it gets really hard that it works on everything. Urethanes and Epoxies are totally out of line for this. Epoxies should NEVER be spec'd outside and Urethane is a VERY general term. There are quite a few epoxies and none of which are intended for picnic tables. Joking or not, some gullable guy on here will probably try that crap and you'll just be wasting HIS money.


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

The Paint Doctor said:


> Why would you put a clear epoxy on first and then a urethane? Thats very bad advice. The guy wants to do it right. The problem with "Epoxy" is everyone thinks because you have to mix stuff together and it gets really hard that it works on everything. Urethanes and Epoxies are totally out of line for this. Epoxies should NEVER be spec'd outside and Urethane is a VERY general term. There are quite a few epoxies and none of which are intended for picnic tables. Joking or not, some gullable guy on here will probably try that crap and you'll just be wasting HIS money.


its going to be inside a screened in porch. I don't see why epoxy wouldnt work for that environment.


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

TJ Paint said:


> its going to be inside a screened in porch. I don't see why epoxy wouldnt work for that environment.


Its not the weather killing the epoxy, its the suns UV that breaks it down.


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

NCPaint1 said:


> Its not the weather killing the epoxy, its the suns UV that breaks it down.


thats why I said topcoat with a UV protective urethane after


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

The Paint Doctor said:


> Why would you put a clear epoxy on first and then a urethane? Thats very bad advice. The guy wants to do it right. The problem with "Epoxy" is everyone thinks because you have to mix stuff together and it gets really hard that it works on everything. Urethanes and Epoxies are totally out of line for this. Epoxies should NEVER be spec'd outside and Urethane is a VERY general term. There are quite a few epoxies and none of which are intended for picnic tables. Joking or not, some gullable guy on here will probably try that crap and you'll just be wasting HIS money.


ok, professor paint. this specific urethane would do just fine in pretty much any environment, and will do just great in a screened in porch.

http://corporateportal.ppg.com/NR/r...8-43F0-BD10-E6DAB749EFBE/0/pittthaneultra.pdf

I began my coating system suggestion as "an outside the box" type of idea, but would actually work great. I guess you haven't done much industrial application, thats fine. You're quick to form a judgment, without knowing what the facts are, or if it isn't found in your own paint store I guess. My system would allow very good chemical and abrasion resistance, as well as long term color and gloss retention. A picnic table, if used, needs that, and your standard varnish type/sikkens products won't last nearly as long. I don't really even care, except you try to mar my own knowlege and suggestion as bad advice. I don't really appreciate that.


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

The Paint Doctor said:


> Cabot has become the BUST of product lines, they are so overrated, and if its underpriced, it will probably under perform.
> 
> The Sikkens Marine Varnish is the only choice if you're willing to do it right.


only choice? Nope.


----------



## Cusingeorge (Jan 19, 2008)

Table inside a screened in porch, exposed to at least some weathering.

Any of the "exterior rated" polyurethanes will work, epoxies will not work, they are subject to UV radiation and will oxidize (chalk) if not protected, and applying a UV resistant urethane over the epoxy won't cut it.

Sikkens has a film former and so does TWP, but I can't say for sure that I'd want to have a table finished with them, I don't think either product has been tested for that kind of performance (although they should work fine).

There's always the high-end exterior rated acrylic urethane (ICA, ILVA, Milesi), they'll hold up but have a small window of tolerance.


----------



## Rick the painter (Mar 30, 2009)

NCPaint1 said:


> I dunno man, dont urethane's yellow outside? Chances are you wont notice it since its stained. Plus, I dont think you can get those products in less than gallon sizes...at least the companies I sell you cant.
> 
> I do everything on the "KISS" method
> 
> ...


I dont blame ya NC DIYers can hang around a paint store an LONG time lol.


----------



## JHill (May 13, 2010)

Marine spar, is what I suggest, and just like it was said earlier in this thread, maintainance is a must. :thumbsup:


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Rick the painter said:


> I dont blame ya NC DIYers can hang around a paint store an LONG time lol.


So can painters, or at least until I run outa beer :whistling2:


----------



## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

doctors11 said:


> We just built a table for a screened in porch out of old reclaimed pine (not pressure treated). It's been planed, sanded, cleaned and stained with minwax oil stain. According to Minwax, if it's in an outdoor setting it needs Spar Varnish for protection rather than Poly. Apparently the varnish has some UV protection and remains somewhat flexible. I'm guessing there's probably better products out there for this. I've got a SW, BM, and Lowes in town. The table will be on the porch year round, and will occasionally get wet, some direct sun, and temperature extremes.
> Any advice?
> Thanks ahead of time.
> Dan



Helmsman Spar Urethane :thumbsup:


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Yeah, after thinking about it, if it does get alot of sun, which I figured it wouldnt because of the screened in porch, then epoxy would be out. But. I would still use this for a clear over the stain. 
http://corporateportal.ppg.com/NR/r...8-43F0-BD10-E6DAB749EFBE/0/pittthaneultra.pdf


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> Helmsman Spar Urethane :thumbsup:


 Yup suggested it on page one. I would get two rattle cans @ $6 ea, and be done. :thumbsup:


----------



## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> Yup suggested it on page one. I would get two rattle cans @ $6 ea, and be done. :thumbsup:


i don't like using spray cans, makes more  overspray than an airless sprayer :no:


----------

