# Estimating with Digital Photos



## Paint Estimator (Jun 22, 2010)

I've seen a few posts about taking photos of your finished work and creating a nice portfolio. I was wondering if anyone uses digital photos while estimating? Whenever I go out to estimate a new job I always bring my digital camera. I take pictures of every section I'm estimating. When I get back to the office I download the photos onto my computer and use them as a visual aid to go along with the measurements I took at the site. Then as I'm preparing my estimate I insert a photo for each section. When I give the prospective client my proposal they can see the photo that accompanies each section that I have estimated. I have gotten a lot of great feedback from these proposals, clients like that fact that each section is clearly identified with the picture and as a result they know exactly what we are going to paint and what they are paying for. This has also been helpful for me because I print out a Work Order for my paint crew and they can see a photo of each section they are supposed to paint. At the end of the job if the client is asking why we didn't paint a certain section I can go back to the paper work and say sorry that was not included in the proposal but I can paint it if you would like, for an additional charge.

P.E.


----------



## y.painting (Jul 19, 2009)

I'd have to hire another person just to manage and organize the photos as you describe.

Unless the bid is for 15K or more, I can't justify that. But if you've got the time, this will give you an edge.


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

I read the post and it sounded like people were sending YOU digital photos of rooms for an estimate. Has anyone gotten any of those? Seems like if they were decent pictures, and good measurements, you could give a fairly solid price without ever stepping foot inside someones home.


----------



## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

I can definetly see how this would help in the sale of the job and be helpful for defining the scope to your crews and clients.

Plus, you'd be half way there on your before and after pics.

Seems very time consuming though. How much time would you spend for the entire pic process on a 10 room (walls, ceilings, and trim) job - ballpark?

Thanks.


----------



## brushmonkey (Jan 4, 2010)

Cameras.. most definitely yes! I always take many pics at the initial meet from all angles on large jobs. I like to download & study them at my leisure. I don't usually break it down by section for a residential client though..I just give them the whole price with complete details of the work/application process, product info & estimated timeline. In my expereince, when Id break a job proposal up in sections sometimes people start to re-think their money options & say... we'll lets just do this part & this part for now... we'll do the other part next Summer or some other time. I want the whole thing while Ive got all my equipment there. I hate doing projects in pieces. :no: 
But that's just me.


Paint Estimator said:


> I've seen a few posts about taking photos of your finished work and creating a nice portfolio. I was wondering if anyone uses digital photos while estimating? Whenever I go out to estimate a new job I always bring my digital camera. I take pictures of every section I'm estimating. When I get back to the office I download the photos onto my computer and use them as a visual aid to go along with the measurements I took at the site. Then as I'm preparing my estimate I insert a photo for each section. When I give the prospective client my proposal they can see the photo that accompanies each section that I have estimated. I have gotten a lot of great feedback from these proposals, clients like that fact that each section is clearly identified with the picture and as a result they know exactly what we are going to paint and what they are paying for. This has also been helpful for me because I print out a Work Order for my paint crew and they can see a photo of each section they are supposed to paint. At the end of the job if the client is asking why we didn't paint a certain section I can go back to the paper work and say sorry that was not included in the proposal but I can paint it if you would like, for an additional charge.
> 
> P.E.


----------



## VanDamme (Feb 13, 2010)

Like Y said, it's a great idea in principle, but finding the time would be hard for me. I'm usually doing estimates at 11-11:30 at night and editing/inserting pictures would take too much time.


----------



## VanDamme (Feb 13, 2010)

brushmonkey said:


> Cameras.. most definitely yes! I always take many pics at the initial meet from all angles on large jobs. I like to download & study them at my leisure. I don't usually break it down by section for a residential client though..I just give them the whole price with complete details of the work/application process, product info & estimated timeline. In my expereince, when Id break a job proposal up in sections sometimes people start to re-think their money options & say... we'll lets just do this part & this part for now... we'll do the other part next Summer or some other time. I want the whole thing while Ive got all my equipment there. I hate doing projects in pieces. :no:
> But that's just me.


If a customer asks for multiple prices, I includes a "discount" if they do all the work while I'm there. I can "discount" because I consider each price as a separate and complete job, so I'm covered either way they decide. They usually have me do all the work for the "discounted" price.


----------



## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

I always take pics. I create a file on the computer, put the estimate in that folder after done and file it under Awarded, or Not Awarded. It is saved that way And I have it for the future if needed.


----------



## Paint Estimator (Jun 22, 2010)

For those of you who think it's time consuming, it's really not. For outsides I just take one picture for each side of a house or building structure I'm bidding on and inside re-paints just one picture of each room. it really helps with refreshing your memory on each section. The time it takes to upload and insert pics is really minimal, set your camera to the lowest resolution setting so the size of the photo is small and quick to work with. sometimes clients want to pick and choose what they want done but often separating everything out justifies the overall price more effectively. sometimes a client may choose to do only a part of the job, but if I didn't separate things out they would have put off doing the whole job because of the price.


----------



## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

You'd probably end up with a 20 page estimate. And typically I show up with my guys on the 1st day. I can only remember 1 house that I had to send my guys with out me.


----------



## Paint Estimator (Jun 22, 2010)

Sure you show up with your guys on the first day but how many times do you have to remind them that certain sections need to be done after the first day? Sometimes my guys need me to hold their hands through the whole job.

If anyone is interested here is a sample of one of my proposals. Tried to get rid of all personal information of course but you can get the idea.

PE


----------



## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> I read the post and it sounded like people were sending YOU digital photos of rooms for an estimate. Has anyone gotten any of those? Seems like if they were decent pictures, and good measurements, you could give a fairly solid price without ever stepping foot inside someones home.


Had another "painter" send me crappy cell phone picks to my phone for a couple months always asking "what do think?". Finally had to tell him that I thought he needed more experience and to learn how to bid.

I've used pictures for some jobs as a reminder of something to be put on the estimates, otherwise mostly before and after pics, and "prior damage" pics to cover my butt.


----------



## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Paint Estimator said:


> Sure you show up with your guys on the first day but how many times do you have to remind them that certain sections need to be done after the first day? Sometimes my guys need me to hold their hands through the whole job.
> 
> If anyone is interested here is a sample of one of my proposals. Tried to get rid of all personal information of course but you can get the idea.
> 
> PE


My guys would amaze you then.


----------



## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

Paint Estimator said:


> Sure you show up with your guys on the first day but how many times do you have to remind them that certain sections need to be done after the first day? Sometimes my guys need me to hold their hands through the whole job.
> 
> If anyone is interested here is a sample of one of my proposals. Tried to get rid of all personal information of course but you can get the idea.
> 
> PE


Thanks for sharing and the clarification. If you are just doing one pic per room then this does makes more sense (time wise) then what I thought you were doing.

Just curious... Are you a painting company and the name of your company is "paint estimating"? Intersting name for an actual painting company. I am not being dis-respectful or judgemental about your name. To me, that is a different type of name for a painting company.


----------



## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

He sells a estimating program. www.paintestimating.com


----------



## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Paint Estimator said:


> If anyone is interested here is a sample of one of my proposals. Tried to get rid of all personal information of course but you can get the idea.
> 
> PE


Just wondering, why do you have a tax line?


----------



## PCM1 (Jul 1, 2010)

I like to take photos of large jobs and attach them to the Work order for the Journeyman, They in return like it when viewing the breakout of the Job.

As for estimating I prefer a scale master and prints along with the spec sheets. I am getting ready to start using take off software in Blue Book.


----------



## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

NCPaint1 said:


> I read the post and it sounded like people were sending YOU digital photos of rooms for an estimate. Has anyone gotten any of those? Seems like if they were decent pictures, and good measurements, you could give a fairly solid price without ever stepping foot inside someones home.


Yes I have.


----------



## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

Paint Estimator said:


> Sure you show up with your guys on the first day but how many times do you have to remind them that certain sections need to be done after the first day? Sometimes my guys need me to hold their hands through the whole job.
> 
> If anyone is interested here is a sample of one of my proposals. Tried to get rid of all personal information of course but you can get the idea.
> 
> PE


Is that the PEP estimating program??


----------



## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

Ok, back on topic 

Took a look at your proposal, few things came to mind.

Is that a picture of a pineapple in the middle of where your company info is?

Only reason I can think of posting a picture in the proposal is if the customer lives out of state and has no idea what their property looks like. Even if this is the case, then I would send several photos in a separate email.

There are no details of what you will do. Type of prep, what methods you will use, products and so on. I always thought details is one of the most important aspects of writing up a proposal. Also explaining in terms they will understand. Most HO do not know what lites are.

No disrespect here but your proposal looks more like a invoice for pluming parts. 

Maybe there is much more to your proposals and you just left it out. I'm just going by what I can see.

Pat


----------



## Paint Estimator (Jun 22, 2010)

Thanks for the comments, To answer a few of the questions:

Yes I use PEP XP estimating software for my bids and proposals. This is why it's so easy to upload photos into my proposals the process is build right in to the program. 

I don't only sell estimating software, I've been a painting contractor for 28 years and I'm not here to sell my software I started this thread to get everyone's comments on using photos. The comments have been great! 

My user name here is not my company name. 

The Pineapple is my paint company logo it is a traditional sign for hospitality, its part of my letter head that's why you see it on my proposal I considered taking it off for this sample but got lazy. 

I think you misunderstand why I include the pictures. Yes the HO is familiar with his or her house but not necessarily with the labels I have placed on each section. The pictures provide clarification and the HOs really seem to like the presentation. I tried the pictures out as an experiment a few years ago and always get compliments on my proposals so I've stuck with it. Normally yes there are a lot more details, prep work, products, materials, application methods. I just put this together for a quick sample of the picture/presentation. 

The tax line is for when I do comercial jobs

The HO may not know what a Lite is but the way I estimate, every item like a door or a window is given a specific price per item. A solid door is going to take less time to pain than a door with windows. The price is dertermined in part by the number of lites. The estimating software I use is a data base so I only have to put the item price in once and then its there whenever I need it on any estimate. If I just called every door a "door" without specifying the details of the door I wouldn't be able to take advantage of the data base because I would have to change the pricing of the "door" with no lites and the "door" with 4 lite. therefore, I have and item called 4 lite door. not for the HO but for efficiency in estimating. 

PE


----------



## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

I think its great to have that option, I think it would be cool just too show the before and afters. 

Sorry but I would like to know. Why do you need a tax line for your commercial work? 90% of my work is commercial and never been required, is this of your preference?


----------



## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

Ok, sounds good. I have some questions, and will ask them later tonight in your intro thread as they are not really related to this topic. 

Pat


----------



## Paint Estimator (Jun 22, 2010)

Ok Pat I look forward to hearing from you.

Ewingpainting- here in Connecticut we have to pay tax on both labor and materials on any comercial jobs we do.


----------



## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Huh, is it like a resale's tax? Never heard of such a thing. Weird that it's only for commercial.


----------



## y.painting (Jul 19, 2009)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Why do you need a tax line...


Some states charge tax for residential home improvements and some for commercial projects and some for both.


----------



## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

Like we don't send enough taxes in as small business owners


----------



## StefanC (Apr 29, 2009)

VanDamme said:


> If a customer asks for multiple prices, I includes a "discount" if they do all the work while I'm there. I can "discount" because I consider each price as a separate and complete job, so I'm covered either way they decide. They usually have me do all the work for the "discounted" price.



Absolutely!


----------

