# How bad is this?



## HQP2005 (Feb 14, 2012)

Just spent half of yesterday priming about 50ft of brand new 4in galvanized corragated downspouts with BM Alkyd primer. Came it this morning and they failed the fingernail test.

Of course reading the back of the can before would of told me to use acrylic, but too late now. Will it bond over time or am I buying new downspouts? 

What are my options?


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## Ultimate (Mar 20, 2011)

If they fail the fingernail test they will likely clean up real easy. 50 feet? It's a toss up. Cost of material versus cost to clean em. Keeping the alkyd on there is just a bad idea imo.


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## LA Painter (Jul 28, 2009)

Did you etch them before priming?


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## Bighead (Nov 28, 2008)

Give it more time to bond. It should be fine.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

Finish it and hope for the best is what I would do.


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## wills fresh coat (Nov 17, 2011)

NEVER put oil on galv, strip it and do it right. You should of asked here first


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## mustangmike3789 (Jun 11, 2011)

Oil based coatings perform poorly when applied over zinc or galvanied surfaces. Oils will react with the metals and saponification will occur which will form a layer of soap and cause the oil based binders to degrade and loss of adhesion to occur. Galvanized surfaces should be brush blasted sspc-sp7 or treated with and acid etch primer before coating. Sherwin williams wash primer or pro-cryl acrylic primer would be the primers that i would choose.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Anything galvanized, used acrylic. 

Any new galvanized, you must clean very good and it's not a bad idea to etch too. 

Either buy new stuff or strip what is on there. Chances are the alkyd will fail sooner than later.


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

At this point I'd just paint 'em too.
When the HO calls (whenever) and says their downspout paint is failing..go replace them then.
Replace them now, the HO thinks you're an idiot.
Replace them next year, the HO thinks you stand behind your work.

(but remember..I'm a hack)


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Hey hack - time to get to get off the computer and get to work!


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

It's raining. Well..not yet but it's going to.

BTW HPQ..I might even say something to the HO's like: "I'm concerned that I might not have used the correct primer on your downspouts. If it fails call me, and I'll take care of it."


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Steve Richards said:


> It's raining. Well..not yet but it's going to.
> 
> BTW HPQ..I might even say something to the HO's like: "I'm concerned that I might not have used the correct primer on your downspouts. If it fails call me, and I'll take care of it."


I don't usually disagree with you Steve but I have to here. 

I think you either let it go and hope all is well or fess up now and fix it. Planting the "I screwed up seed" in the client's brain but leaving it uncorrected seems to be a bad combination. As the HO, my confidence in my contractor would be pretty low at that point.

Are we still friends? :whistling2:


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

researchhound said:


> I don't usually disagree with you Steve but I have to here.
> 
> I think you either let it go and hope all is well or fess up now and fix it. Planting the "I screwed up seed" in the client's brain but leaving it uncorrected seems to be a bad combination. As the HO, my confidence in my contractor would be pretty low at that point.
> 
> Are we still friends? :whistling2:


You're probably right about the "seed planting". I didn't think that out...

Still?

When innahell were we friends?


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Steve Richards said:


> You're probably right about the "seed planting". I didn't think that out...
> 
> Still?
> 
> When innahell were we friends?


You're right... fvck you. :whistling2:


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

..so let me revise that, HPQ...

On your way out...tell the HO "If anything fails *wink wink nudge nudge* let me know and I'll take care of it."

That assumes you didn't give them a warranty...if you did, then don't sweat it.


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## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

TJ Paint said:


> Anything galvanized, used acrylic.
> 
> Any new galvanized, you must clean very good and it's not a bad idea to etch too.
> 
> Either buy new stuff or strip what is on there. Chances are the alkyd will fail sooner than later.


Back in the "good" old days _(choke,gasp_), we used oil for everything outside, wasn't much in the way of latex around here. With any galvanized metal we always washed it down good with Cider Vinegar and let it dry then prime and paint - both oil. Stayed good and looked good. But whada I know, just another ol fart.:blink:


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## HQP2005 (Feb 14, 2012)

Thanks for the responses

HO agreed to pay for pre-primed to replaced what I messed up.

live and learn :thumbsup:


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Scotiadawg said:


> Back in the "good" old days _(choke,gasp_), we used oil for everything outside, wasn't much in the way of latex around here. With any galvanized metal we always washed it down good with Cider Vinegar and let it dry then prime and paint - both oil. Stayed good and looked good. But whada I know, just another ol fart.:blink:


I can remember using a galvanized metal primer that I think I used to get at Sears. It was a somewhat translucent yellow colored substance (spare the jokes) that became kinda sticky as it dried. Never had a paint failure on gutters where I used it. It was probably toxic as hell.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

researchhound said:


> I can remember using a galvanized metal primer that I think I used to get at Sears. It was a somewhat translucent yellow colored substance (spare the jokes) that became kinda sticky as it dried. Never had a paint failure on gutters where I used it. It was probably toxic as hell.


 Your mind is in the gutter!


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## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

researchhound said:


> I can remember using a galvanized metal primer that I think I used to get at Sears. It was a somewhat translucent yellow colored substance (spare the jokes) that became kinda sticky as it dried. Never had a paint failure on gutters where I used it. It was probably toxic as hell.


Probably most of the stuff we used back then were poison. I wouldn't doubt I'm a walking ( so far) toxic dump.


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

HQP2005 said:


> Thanks for the responses
> 
> HO agreed to pay for pre-primed to replaced what I messed up.
> 
> live and learn :thumbsup:


WTG HQP

I woulda liked to have been a fly on the wall for that conversation (only because I'm nosy). 


I've used vinegar before too, SD. It worked. Kinda stinky though.

Never used the Sears yellow before, RH..but I still have a can of Valspar galvanized metal primer. It's blue, thin as water, gets sticky, and is lacquer base.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Steve Richards said:


> WTG HQP
> 
> I woulda liked to have been a fly on the wall for that conversation (only because I'm nosy).
> 
> ...


Probably the same thing - just tinted a different color. I remember it being really thin.


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## HQP2005 (Feb 14, 2012)

Steve Richards said:


> WTG HQP
> 
> I woulda liked to have been a fly on the wall for that conversation (only because I'm nosy).


Honesty Pays :thumbup:

It actually gets better; not only is he paying for the pre-primed to make up for my lost time, he has agreed to absorb the cost of my $200 mistake.

This is a pretty big job that I have already been on for a couple weeks and they have been real happy with what ive been doing.

The thing is, after looking at the ones I put the oil on,(they actually looked really good), he realized I could of just painted em and put em up anyway, and he would have never known until later when they started failing, which im sure they would of. 

He very much appreciated that I was honest about the mistake and thanked me for addressing it.

I'm sure It wont always play out like this, but this time honesty was rewarded.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

So, you can take away two good lessons from this - how to properly top coat gutters and a valuable business (and life) model. 

Jeeze, I sound like my dad.:shutup:


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## mustangmike3789 (Jun 11, 2011)

scotiadawg said:


> back in the "good" old days _(choke,gasp_), we used oil for everything outside, wasn't much in the way of latex around here. With any galvanized metal we always washed it down good with cider vinegar and let it dry then prime and paint - both oil. Stayed good and looked good. But whada i know, just another ol fart.:blink:


 i have no doubts that you may have had some success with oil over galvanize. Different types of oils will react differently but most will fail sooner than later. The paint that you used may have lost its adhesion stength over time but stayed on due to it having a good cohesion strength, or ability to stick to itself. A good example of this is a bridge inspection that had acrylic paint failing at some of the corners of flanges due to no stripe coating of edges before painting which meant poor film build on sharp corners that eventually cut through the paint as it cured. An adhesion test was done and the results showed that the paint had a very low adhesion strength but high cohesion, meaning that the paint film was acting more like shrink wrap opposed to paint.


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## Finn (Dec 18, 2011)

Fix it mate, 50ft what's that 4-5 down spouts take them off, strip them and put them back with bells on. Just came off a 4 week job that had to have some things done because of code.


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## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

mustangmike3789 said:


> i have no doubts that you may have had *some success* with oil over galvanize. Different types of oils will react differently but most will fail sooner than later. The paint that you used may have lost its adhesion stength over time but stayed on due to it having a good cohesion strength, or ability to stick to itself. A good example of this is a bridge inspection that had acrylic paint failing at some of the corners of flanges due to no stripe coating of edges before painting which meant poor film build on sharp corners that eventually cut through the paint as it cured. An adhesion test was done and the results showed that the paint had a very low adhesion strength but high cohesion, meaning that the paint film was acting more like shrink wrap opposed to paint.


lawd have mercy ! We didn't just have_ some_ success. :no:. Our paint looked good, and stayed good. Usually as long as the house itself, until the next paint job - usually 6-7 years. Adhesion strength or cohesion strentgh it stayed put and looked good. Which works for me. But hey whada I know, just a dumb ol country boy with 39 successful years in the biz.


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

Ahh 39 years 39 beers blah blah blah.
Do something wrong long enough and you figure you must be doing it right.
(Just kiddin' SD)



HQP2005 said:


> I'm sure It wont always play out like this, but this time honesty was rewarded.


Yup "_honesty's the best policy_"

Well, I'm not sure it's the BEST policy, but it's a good policy

(that I charge extra for)


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

researchhound said:


> I can remember using a galvanized metal primer that I think I used to get at Sears. It was a somewhat translucent yellow colored substance (spare the jokes) that became kinda sticky as it dried. Never had a paint failure on gutters where I used it. It was probably toxic as hell.


Dtm wash primer. Same thing, different label.


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## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

Steve Richards said:


> Ahh 39 years 39 beers blah blah blah.
> Do something wrong long enough and you figure you must be doing it right.
> (Just kiddin' SD)
> 
> ...


geeze I was expecting more turmoil !:yes: must be that "ignore" button again.:thumbsup: good shot there SR.:notworthy:


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

I got flamed once on CT for saying I'd been doing something (apparently wrong) for 30 years.

I was warned that I'd be out of business pretty soon if I didn't change my ways.


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## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

Steve Richards said:


> I got flamed once on CT for saying I'd been doing something (apparently wrong) for 30 years.
> 
> I was warned that I'd be out of business pretty soon if I didn't change my ways.


If it aint broke......:thumbsup:. I'd say somethings working for you SR:yes:


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

Yeah, that was several years ago...the guy that told me that is probably out of business by now.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Scotiadawg said:


> If it aint broke......:thumbsup:. I'd say somethings working for you SR:yes:


No it isn't. He just starts a new business every two years or so. :whistling2:


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

I can't start a new business, until I get rid of the rest of these business cards for my current one.


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## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

researchhound said:


> No it isn't. He just s_tarts a new business every two years or so. :whistling2:_




Damn, why didn't I think of that ?


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## pucks101 (Mar 29, 2012)

mustangmike3789 said:


> Oil based coatings perform poorly when applied over zinc or galvanied surfaces. Oils will react with the metals and *saponification* will occur which will form a layer of soap and cause the oil based binders to degrade and loss of adhesion to occur. Galvanized surfaces should be brush blasted sspc-sp7 or treated with and acid etch primer before coating. Sherwin williams wash primer or pro-cryl acrylic primer would be the primers that i would choose.


You made me bust out the dictionary


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