# My first...and 'last', use of Seal-Krete 'Epoxy Seal'



## kerk (Oct 14, 2009)

Yes, just maybe it's something 'I' did, on my previously 'nice' 2 and a half car garage floor job..........but I doubt it. I think I was pretty anal about it.

As the photo shows, I got hot tire pickup.......even after two months.

8 year old house, never occupied until March this year. High ground, north Florida. Job done in May. 1st acid wash, 1 part acid to 4 part water. Rinse. Neutralize with 1 pd baking soda to 4 gal water. Rinse, let dry overnight.

Next day, not happy with etch.

2nd acid wash, 1 part acid to 3 part water. Rinse. Neutralize with baking soda, rinse, let dry overnight.

Apply first coat Epoxy Seal, thinned one pint per gallon. Let dry overnight.

Apply second coat full strength adding sprinkles as I go. Let dry a couple days.

Apply Seal-Krete 'Showroom' clear sealer. Let dry and cure 7 days before receiving parked cars.

About two weeks later, we start getting tire pickup.

Talked to Seal-Krete customer pacifier department to see about having a rep look at it..........they don't have reps. But, they do run through a series of steps that you should follow, and when all the steps are followed, they start adding new steps......like when I said I neutralized with baking soda, she said 'they' prefer that ammonia be used.

Oh puleeeeeze!

If I had said I used ammonia, she probably would have said they prefer baking soda.

But anyway......they finally buckled to the intense pressure, and customer pacifier department 'did' authorize me one free gallon of Seal-Krete 'Lock down' primer to try and fix it. 

Yes, my compensation for 4 trips back, to prime, paint prime, finish and sprinkle, and clear seal will be that gallon of primer.

The pic is pretty high resolution, and if you enlarge, you can see the concrete has tooth to it.

Anyway......just FYI, should anyone contemplate using it themselves, good luck.

It does appear to be a nice patio paint though. But as I said.....my 'last time'.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Never had a problem with them but there are better products to use such as SW armor.


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## paintpimp (Jun 29, 2007)

How much was the Seal Krete product? For fifty bucks per gallon you could go with SW Macropoxy 646 Or tile clad HS and have great results.


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## mustangmike3789 (Jun 11, 2011)

can you pull up a chip to check the back for any powder or sand. try to dig into the surface of the concrete with a sharp 5in1,could be soft concrete. your acid solution seems a little strong too which could weaken the surface.


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## kerk (Oct 14, 2009)

Workaholic said:


> Never had a problem with them but there are better products to use such as SW armor.


Noted.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

100% solids and be done with it. Well, too late now, you'd want to strip off the seal krete before going that route.

Can't say I'm a huge fan of seal krete products, over priced for average quality. For the same money you can get a better product, and for less money, a similar quality product.


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## kerk (Oct 14, 2009)

mustangmike3789 said:


> can you pull up a chip to check the back for any powder or sand. try to dig into the surface of the concrete with a sharp 5in1,could be soft concrete. your acid solution seems a little strong too which could weaken the surface.


Yeah, I went a little stronger a second time cause there were some baby butt smooth spots even after the first etch. It was a real smooth, hard trowel in some spots.

I re did about four areas about 6 weeks ago. First thing was to check for dusting, but didn't have any, and there were no lifted pieces left to examine. What I didn't do was to try and pull off some of the surrounding coating to see if there was any downside dusting. 

I'll check it for hardness when I go back, plus see if I can peel some to take a look.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Kerk, you could buy some runner rugs and just park on those.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Did you use Epoxy Seal "Lock down" primer? http://www.sealkrete.com/pdfs/EpoxyData.pdf
The 30% acid etch should of been OK as long as you rinsed and neutralized.


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## kerk (Oct 14, 2009)

CApainter said:


> Did you use Epoxy Seal "Lock down" primer? http://www.sealkrete.com/pdfs/EpoxyData.pdf
> The 30% acid etch should of been OK as long as you rinsed and neutralized.


No. Seal-Krete recommends it, but states that it's optional. And as with most companies, unnecessary items are often 'recommended', as they serve no purpose other than transferring money from your (and/or the customers) pocket to theirs.

The problem may still have happened even if it was used, thus adding another whole, wasted step to the process.

A slightly thinned first coat of a floor coating should give sufficient penetration, and adhesion, by itself.

If not, then the coating is not suitable for the stated use.


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## c65jones (Mar 27, 2011)

Devoe Coatings Bar-Rust 235 has excellent adhesion qualities. I've never seen it lift. It is duller than most other epoxies though, so not a great stand alone finish. If you're adding chips and top coating with a urethane, it's a great gripping base coat, even on unperfectly prepped floors. Advantages are the adhesion quality and price. Disadvantes are the dull sheen and it seems to yellow a bit quicker than other epoxies.


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## kerk (Oct 14, 2009)

NCPaint1 said:


> Kerk, you could buy some runner rugs and just park on those.


Possibly, but I thought I may just recommend that they just leave their cars outside, as the vehicles look to be vitamin D deficient.

Or perhaps after I finish the re-do, just spray down the area with WD-40.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

kerk said:


> Or perhaps after I finish the re-do, just spray down the area with WD-40.


Just don't pull into your garage in a hurry! :no:


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## kerk (Oct 14, 2009)

researchhound said:


> Just don't pull into your garage in a hurry! :no:


Well yes.......of course that application would be done in conjunction with the installation of concrete bumper stops.

And maybe a couple hanging tennis balls......for the finishing touch. :thumbsup:

Just can't decide if I should use matching Epoxy Seal on the bumpers. 

To match the finished floor, or match the lifted areas?


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## Mike's QP (Jun 12, 2008)

This thread reminds me of why I only grind my floors, not acid etch. Did you do a moisture test after you washed and before you finished?


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

kerk said:


> And maybe a couple hanging tennis balls......for the finishing touch. :thumbsup:
> Just can't decide if I should use matching Epoxy Seal on the bumpers.


Or, just glue a few of the extra tennis balls on the bumpers. :yes:

Here in Oregon the tennis balls suspended from the garage ceiling aren't mandatory until age seventy so for now we use those yellow mats that consist of two small bumps with a flat space in between. Just position them where you want your front tires to stop. We've had two sets for about twelve years (yes we do park both of our vehicles *in* the garage) and they work great.
(Note - When initially writing the first sentence of this paragraph I accidentally left the "p" out of the word "bumps"... glad I caught it... funnier but might have raised a few eyebrows.)


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## kerk (Oct 14, 2009)

Mike's QP said:


> This thread reminds me of why I only grind my floors, not acid etch. Did you do a moisture test after you washed and before you finished?


No. Late May, drought period, high ground, 90 degree weather, low humidity, water based floor epoxy.

Moisture test?


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

kerk said:


> No. Late May, drought period, high ground, 90 degree weather, low humidity, water based floor epoxy.
> 
> Moisture test?


Piece of plastic taped to the floor overnight. Condensation on the plastic the next morning...change your game plan. :thumbsup:


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## Mike's QP (Jun 12, 2008)

I would never wash and coat the next day I don't even wash a house and start it the next day. Moisture is the #1 cause of paint failure why take the chance. The areas that you said did not etch on the first application, did you test them for water absorbtion after final prep? They may have applied a cure/seal after they poured it, if not removed could cause you some problems like this.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Mike's QP said:


> I would never wash and coat the next day I don't even wash a house and start it the next day. Moisture is the #1 cause of paint failure why take the chance. The areas that you said did not etch on the first application, did you test them for water absorbtion after final prep? They may have applied a cure/seal after they poured it, if not removed could cause you some problems like this.


Mechanical etching is best. Acid etching is ok. I dont think thats the issue here. Its hot tire pickup, and a common issue with acrylic floor coatings. Garages that get vehicles parked in them regularly should have 100% solids put down. Acrylics are fine if you are using the garage as a shop or something, and occasionally for parking.


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## kerk (Oct 14, 2009)

NCPaint1 said:


> Piece of plastic taped to the floor overnight. Condensation on the plastic the next morning...change your game plan. :thumbsup:


I will use that 'game plan' if the situation calls for it. As noted in my OP,
along with the conditions just mentioned, the floor is 8 years old, and the house never occupied.

I also doubt a moisture problem would still allow enough adhesion to leave a tread 'imprint'.

I should also have some bubbling in other areas if that were the problem.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

kerk said:


> I will use that 'game plan' if the situation calls for it. As noted in my OP,
> along with the conditions just mentioned, the floor is 8 years old, and the house never occupied.
> 
> I also doubt a moisture problem would still allow enough adhesion to leave a tread 'imprint'.
> ...


Correct. I dont think moisture was the issue here. I was explaining a "moisture test" in my previous post. 

Product choice was the problem here, nothing you did caused the failure. Since its an acrylic, its an easy fix, and the flakes will help hide the fix too. :thumbsup:


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## kerk (Oct 14, 2009)

Mike's QP said:


> I would never wash and coat the next day I don't even wash a house and start it the next day. Moisture is the #1 cause of paint failure why take the chance. The areas that you said did not etch on the first application, did you test them for water absorbtion after final prep? They may have applied a cure/seal after they poured it, if not removed could cause you some problems like this.


It may be the #1 cause of failure on 'existing' films over time, but new applications? If the coating is breaking down on a piece of rotten wood, it's hardly a paint failure due to water. It's paint failure due to a 'substrate' failure.

Now if enough people, in this country, are painting over wet surfaces, to make 'water' the number one cause of paint failure......we have a big problem.

I could be wrong about it being the number one cause, but if I am, quote your source..........if I buy it, I have crow in the freezer ready to go........but I don't think I'll be cooking it.

In my experience in the field, by far, the #1 cause of 'new' applications failure (within one year) is 'surface contamination', that being either from lack of cleaning, lack of a penetrating sealer when called for, an existing faulty substrate (usually cheap paint), or any combination mentioned. 

This of course assumes that the topcoat is being used for it's stated purpose.


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