# Painting new 6 panel doors



## Brian339 (Mar 15, 2009)

25 years experience and still taking advice.....

I am using Muralo Semi-Gloss on new 6 panel masonite doors. I need to really bust this job out because I am doing it for a song. I also need to have a nice finish product because this is a new account. In the past I never needed to worry about costs but nowadays its everything. Color is white dove. Spraying is not an option.

I am thinking about rolling and back brushing them. Is there a recommended paint extender you have had success with? XIM extender?

I may also need to go two coats. I was thinking about a coat of the Super SPec white I used for the ceilings and then one finish. Whot do you think about that?

What kind of roller do you use? I was thinking of cleaning out a well used 9 inch 1/2 I have. I have no problem using something else.

If you have read this far and are going to take the time to write a repsonse your a true brother from another mother and THANKS.


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

Are they the smooth style or the ones with the grain pattern imprinted.? Pre-primed correct?


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

Muralo is one of the nicest handling waterbornes. I personally do not use a roller on a 6 panel. Just as easy to brush to begin with. If the masonite is raw you should prime with something like 123. Then Using 2x Muralo is best. Dries quick- recoat in 1-2 easy. Make the drying quick work for you, not against you. 
I use a splash of water and sometimes a splash of XIM x .


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Brush the tight spots on the jambs and roll with a whizz.


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## jsheridan (Mar 12, 2011)

On the typical textured six panels, you can roll semi with a standard wizz and it looks fine. I think you're talking of the smooth surface doors, biiiittttccch, especially with waterborne. You have to create your cross texture where the stiles and rails meet with a brush, like on a steel six panel, unlike on the textured doors where that is established by the imprinted grain. I do the heel/toe cut and the panel detail with brush and roll the flats with a mohair wizz. It creates a nice uniform factory looking finish. :thumbsup: on the extender.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)




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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

Brian, why are you doing this job for a song? Massachusetts is presently undergoing a massive economic boom - raise your price!


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

plainpainter said:


> Brian, why are you doing this job for a song? Massachusetts is presently undergoing a massive economic boom - raise your price!


Is that why you haven't been here?


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

If you are only doing 2 coats by brush n roll I would not introduce any other product besides the finish product. Primer will work against you on sheen unless you were to use tinted Gripper but I'd stick with 2 finish. 

Down and dirty fast method:
1. Reduce paint by 24oz to gallon for first coat. Mix leftover with stock for 2nd. 
2. Roll the first coat on neatly with a white dove, pro doo z or short nap micro. The paint being reduced will self level without laying off. Go 32oz if need be. 
3. Allow to dry or at least when done rolling... turn around and cut bevels with stock paint. 
4. Reroll and lay off if desired. 

You will be able to fly through each step and bevels will be a breeze with dried paint surrounding them.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Very interesting thread.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> Very interesting thread.


Yah. I'm trying to get doors down to 15 seconds so I can charge less. (right now it's $1/door) And Basco says the economy is booming. We are only 4 hours away...wt?


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> Yah. I'm trying to get doors down to 15 seconds so I can charge less. (right now it's $1/door) And Basco says the economy is booming. We are only 4 hours away...wt?


Hm. I'm charging too much.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> Yah. I'm trying to get doors down to 15 seconds so I can charge less. (right now it's $1/door) And Basco says the economy is booming. We are only 4 hours away...wt?


Some here think that $1 for 15 seconds of work is unethical. You really should of charged $.40. 

I hear Basco is polishing the mystery machine and shopping for new rims as we speak.


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> Yah. I'm trying to get doors down to 15 seconds so I can charge less. (right now it's $1/door) And Basco says the economy is booming. We are only 4 hours away...wt?



Hire Ole and a brush...


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Well, you guys do what you want. Basco has declared economic boom within 4 hours of me. That is like a Standard & Poor's report. I'm raising prices. Later, I'm off to QuoteWatch for the full report! :jester:


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> Is that why you haven't been here?


I've been too busy working on my investments making money - phone calls don't start for another week at least, just a few here and there.

I've been following all this econometric data for the last few months and can see we're in for a massive improvement in the economy this year. But my fear which seems to be playing out is that contractors in my area are scared beyond belief and are still pricing like we're in the thick of the worst recession since the great Depression. The recession is long over, companies are making record profits and the very last thing to happen during a recovery, the improving employment situation is improving at break-neck speed right now. To the chagrin of the Republican party the summer of 2011 will definitely be the summer of Recovery everyone was hoping for back in 2010. It's not the fault of the Dems - just their unrealistic over-enthusiasm. In retrospect, this improvement is probably the fastest I see in all the economic data I see going back a hundred years. It's just that when folks are out of a job - an hour seems like a week, a day seems like a month, a month feels like a year, and a year feels like a decade. 

I am definitely raising my pricing for 2011 - I fully expect painting contractors will be a full year behind in realizing that times are good, and folks will be getting great deals not even deserved if you look at supply/demand laws. I feel badly for guys booking out 6+ months right now at bottom of the barrel '09 pricing - Demand is going to be sky high in a couple of months - gotta have faith that there will plenty of work this year, not worth getting booked too far out.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

I'm screwed.





plainpainter said:


> I've been too busy working on my investments making money - phone calls don't start for another week at least, just a few here and there.
> 
> I've been following all this econometric data for the last few months and can see we're in for a massive improvement in the economy this year. But my fear which seems to be playing out is that contractors in my area are scared beyond belief and are still pricing like we're in the thick of the worst recession since the great Depression. The recession is long over, companies are making record profits and the very last thing to happen during a recovery, the improving employment situation is improving at break-neck speed right now. To the chagrin of the Republican party the summer of 2011 will definitely be the summer of Recovery everyone was hoping for back in 2010. It's not the fault of the Dems - just their unrealistic over-enthusiasm. In retrospect, this improvement is probably the fastest I see in all the economic data I see going back a hundred years. It's just that when folks are out of a job - an hour seems like a week, a day seems like a month, a month feels like a year, and a year feels like a decade.
> 
> I am definitely raising my pricing for 2011 - I fully expect painting contractors will be a full year behind in realizing that times are good, and folks will be getting great deals not even deserved if you look at supply/demand laws. I feel badly for guys booking out 6+ months right now at bottom of the barrel '09 pricing - Demand is going to be sky high in a couple of months - gotta have faith that there will plenty of work this year, not worth getting booked too far out.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Does this mean Quote Watch is dead?


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> I'm screwed.


There I was reading this lively banter throughout this thread and then came Dan's economic outlook/prediction reply. Read it twice, (as I do with most of his posts), thinking how this thread took a serious turn of note. And then Scott's two word reply. :lol: (A classic sig line if there ever was one.)


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## Brian339 (Mar 15, 2009)

Thanks for all the responses so far. 
To answer a couple of questions....

The doors are smooth and primed. I am going to go with two coats. I just have to try a faster method than my brush alone....although I think I am pretty quick it would be nice to do 28 doors and frames one coat in one day to my standards.

As for Dans response. I think things have improved as far as supply of work but in response to price I must admit that I am working for less. I am moking a living but not the same as it once was. If you making more today than you were before than god bless you. I am happy to see a steady paycheck.

I really appreciate all the help and support some folks provide here.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Brian, do you need a smooth laid off finish or is faint roller texture ok? I might go with 5/16" if so unless you plan on laying all of it off. Regardless, the reduced coat will be more manageable vs straight from the can. The goal with the first coat is mainly to seal up the MDFs absorbent primer so your finish coat has more working time to finish it to your liking. 

Sometimes these smooth MDf doors have a fairly noticeable texture from the factory, others are fairly smooth.


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## Brian339 (Mar 15, 2009)

These doors are very smooth and take paint real nice especially semi-gloss.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Why cant you spray them?


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## Brian339 (Mar 15, 2009)

Bender said:


> Why cant you spray them?


Its just not doable on this job. Maybe the next one.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

I'll let you use one of my Proshot's Brian.


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## canadianpainter (Mar 7, 2009)

I'd use Aura because it covers and levels the best, you can get away with one coat, and it finishes great.

Also, my method would be to paint the panels, heel/toe with a 2" square brush adding just a touch of water to ensure it lays down nice and roll the rest with an 10mm 9 inch roller. 28 doors and frames is hard days work but it's possible. 

One job that I'll never forget, I brushed over 60 steel doors frames in a day with zero brush marks and out of the 60 frames about a dozen had windows in them and yes the doors were hung. 

Also, when I'm in kick ass production mode I usually tackle doors and frames separately even if they're the same colour; I find it's easier to get in the zone.

Good luck with whatever approach you take.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

Brian, first off - you'll be a fool if you don't ask for more money this year. The national economy is improving dramatically - Massachusetts economy is improving even faster. You'll see what I mean by summer, it will feel like '02 again, not as good as say '99 but loads better than we're we've been.

As to the doors - get a well used 9" sleeve, tape door knobs and hinges - and then roll on the paint really fast on one side and then tip off with the largest brush you can find. Me and a buddy did that once, I rolled, and we both had brushes and between the both of us finished a door every 2-3 minutes - you might not need to even tip off the first coat, especially if you sand between coats - those MDF primed doors will swallow the first coat of semigloss, especially if it's Muralo's Ultra - the resins are so small in that paint, they'll just suck right through the primer leaving hardly any stipple on the first coat if any.


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

Brian339 said:


> The doors are smooth and primed. I am going to go with two coats. I just have to try a faster method than my brush alone....although I think I am pretty quick it would be nice to do 28 doors and frames one coat in one day to my standards.


Pull out the sprayer. 28 door/frame sets should be a piece of cake with one. If you can't spray frames for whatever reason, pull the doors off the hinges and spray them somewhere.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Rcon said:


> Pull out the sprayer. 28 door/frame sets should be a piece of cake with one. If you can't spray frames for whatever reason, pull the doors off the hinges and spray them somewhere.


I am Workaholic and I approve of this post. lol

This is what I would do too. Do you have access to a garage? Do you have zipwalls? Either way make a makeshift spray room and take care of the doors and do the frames by hand. 

If you do not have a spray rig go rent one and by a spraysock and respirator.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

Brian339 said:


> although I think I am pretty quick it would be nice to do 28 doors and frames one coat in one day to my standards.....
> .


 
(i just pulled this off internet)

*Airfare from Philadelphia to Boston on Continental from $174 round trip*



ok look i want $300 cash in a manila business envelope when you pick me up at the airport and ill do all 28 doors/frames for you in 1 day ...........so thats about $500 for labor/airfare/paint/lunch/few beers.......... oh and another thing, i dont want any small talk on the way to the job cause im a business man an have work to do ok an im not flyin all the way up there to be your friend!! .......


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Who's the best? 

Ole34 is, that's who!


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

My tendons and ligaments are already screaming at the thought of me doing an Ole34 on some doors(maybe 5, no more at that speed) on Monday... I am just not built for that kind of sustained speed. The long haul I can do...


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

Gotta dig the tunes and painter blacks Ole's sportin. Bustin outta door, blood.


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## timhag (Sep 30, 2007)

Ole34 said:


> (i just pulled this off internet)
> 
> *Airfare from Philadelphia to Boston on Continental from $174 round trip*
> 
> ...


He dropped his brush @ 9 seconds :lol:


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

had to shut it down when Gloria( or who ever it was) came on


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

NEPS.US said:


> Who's the best?
> 
> Ole34 is, that's who!


Stop it. People are going to think that's how to lay off a door.


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

I am coming out with a new brush this season. Each one comes with it's own super efficient electric motor attached. Just plug it in and hold on. I am calling it the Ole34.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

Ole is a total joke - anybody can slap paint on a door - try getting paid for such a thing. Not to mention - I've never used a latex trim paint that brushed as far as that stuff. I bet I could roll paint on a door on saw horses and have it look better without even tipping it.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

jack pauhl said:


> Stop it. People are going to think that's how to lay off a door.


 
my next vid ill slow it down by 60 seconds and show you how to lay it off correctly.................still whoop you by damn near 20 mins ............your not on my level an never will be


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

plainpainter said:


> Ole is a total joke - anybody can slap paint on a door - try getting paid for such a thing. Not to mention - I've never used a latex trim paint that brushed as far as that stuff. I bet I could roll paint on a door on saw horses and have it look better without even tipping it.


 
it was PRIMER dummy !!! ..............looks like ill be doing a finish coat video next to completely shut everybody up .............dont matter to me i like talking about myself cause i am the best in the world hands down .............bar none 


and another thing its really not that the primer went far but more like im skilled enough to handle a fully loaded brush ......... basically i put more paint on then you and about 7 times faster if not more


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

i can place nice and you can say what you want but dont make **** up cause im not having it ...............i dont mind the ''layin off'' comments becasue it was only a priming demo, i wasnt going for finish quality ................but the other comment by plainpainter? 



[email protected] you .........you think i was slapping paint on the door?? you miss where i was catching runs/drips??? maybe you also miss where i faced it off at the end??? thats what slapping primer on a door is ???? 

you missed alot it seems


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Ole34 said:


> .your not on my level an never will be


Hmm. I agree.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Ole34 said:


> it was PRIMER dummy !!! ..............looks like ill be doing a finish coat video next to completely shut everybody up .............dont matter to me i like talking about myself cause i am the best in the world hands down .............bar none
> 
> 
> and another thing its really not that the primer went far but more like im skilled enough to handle a fully loaded brush ......... basically i put more paint on then you and about 7 times faster if not more


 Actually the whole video was creepy because of a grown man's taste in music. You did ok, wish someone else was shooting it so they could get in close and see your brush smoking. :thumbsup:


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

(removed by mod) 

Listen, dude, what you call catching the drips is a total joke, I've spread paints such as Aura probably 10X thinner than what you applied and still had drips running 20 minutes afterward. 

I don't look up to guys that demonstrate monster production rates - I look up to guys that can sell the same work for multiples what you can sell it for, and then relax at the golf course while your busting your wet back for pesos.


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## timhag (Sep 30, 2007)

Ole34 said:


> it was PRIMER dummy !!! ..............looks like ill be doing a finish coat video next to completely shut everybody up .............dont matter to me i like talking about myself cause i am the best in the world hands down .............bar none
> 
> 
> and another thing its really not that the primer went far but more like im skilled enough to handle a fully loaded brush ......... basically i put more paint on then you and about 7 times faster if not more


*ego trip* - an act undertaken to increase your own power and influence or to draw attention to your own importance


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

This one is getting ugly.........
Granted Ole34 is pretty full of himself and I have many issues with his approach and professionalism as a businessman, but I actually think he is a pretty productive professional painter who can hold his own and he makes me laugh sometimes. I hate to see a question regarding painting some doors turn into this crap. I think anyone Ole34 makes uncomfortable or anyone that feels threatened by him, might need to take a good look at their own skills. From what I see he is a young guy with some old school brush and roller skills. I,m not saying he's Picasso. I though the video was kind of funny. He's a little bit of a wild card, but he really doesn't bother me. The attacks are unnesessary.


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## timhag (Sep 30, 2007)

CliffK said:


> The attacks are unnesessary.


Gots to admit, dude is trippin!


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

(removed by mod)


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## timhag (Sep 30, 2007)

timhag said:


> Gots to admit, dude is trippin!


Ole is cool tho  in an entertainment kinda why. :thumbsup:


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

I think Cliff is right, this is getting ugly, please, no personal attacks.


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

plainpainter said:


> Cliff - the feeling threatend part has to do with the fact these droves of ******** have invaded our economy and drove the price of contracting services into the toilet. I made better money in painting back in 1990 than what these guys are charging now. And to add insult to injury they seriously think they're a superior form of humanity. I can't stand when these folks that come from ****, live in ****, come into my neighborhood and act condescending to my face


I hear ya guy- it's frustrating, although I don't think I would have said it quite the same way, I have seen my way of life change too after 35 years in the business, but it's not all Ole34's fault. He wasn't the one who opened the door. You need to chill out and control what YOU can.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Everyone just buy a Proshot and shut up. No more door discussion. :whistling2:


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## timhag (Sep 30, 2007)

Honestly, who really cares how fast one can paint a door, window or a wall? I don't take pride in speed, I take pride in doing a good job. My ego trip comes out when I can say word of mouth is my best advertising. It's the greatest thing when my customer refers me to their neighbors, friends and relatives. I get those referrals from doing a good job not because I painted the entire house in 22 minutes.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

timhag said:


> Honestly, who really cares how fast one can paint a door, window or a wall? I don't take pride in speed, I take pride in doing a good job. My ego trip comes out when I can say word of mouth is my best advertising. It's the greatest thing when my customer refers me to their neighbors, friends and relatives. I get those referrals from doing a good job not because I painted the entire house in 22 minutes.


You are charging too much then. Get your prices down and kick it in high gear!


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## timhag (Sep 30, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> You are charging too much then. Get your prices down and kick it in high gear!


Will be speaking to my financial adviser first thing Monday morning. :thumbsup:


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

timhag said:


> Will be speaking to my financial adviser first thing Monday morning. :thumbsup:


Just sayin, if you get your prices down, you can do more work, have to work faster, AND make less money than you currently do. What about this are you not grasping?


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## timhag (Sep 30, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> Just sayin, if you get your prices down, you can do more work, have to work faster, AND make less money than you currently do. What about this are you not grasping?


I can't work any faster than I do now V.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

timhag said:


> I can't work any faster than I do now V.


You could, if you lowered your prices. That's the point. Challenge yourself.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Deliberately putting brush marks into a door fast is not production. Would take much longer to sand them out.


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## timhag (Sep 30, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> You could, if you lowered your prices. That's the point. Challenge yourself.


So you are saying I should charge $.40 per 15 seconds vs $1.00 per 15 seconds?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

timhag said:


> So you are saying I should charge $.40 per 15 seconds vs $1.00 per 15 seconds?


Definitely. You would have to learn how to do 45 seconds worth of work in 15 seconds to pull it off.


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## timhag (Sep 30, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> Definitely. You would have to learn


 Thought I knew everything there is to know.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

timhag said:


> Thought I knew everything there is to know.


Nah, dood... You have been plateauing for years. Get out of your comfort zone.


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## timhag (Sep 30, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> Nah, dood... You have been plateauing for years. Get out of your comfort zone.


No plateauing nor comfort zone here. I've be living in the Rocky Mountains/the bipolar zone.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

how did I get stuck being labeled the ''CHEAP'' guy ??? first you guys ASSUMED I do a ****ty job cause im fast and now your ASSUMING that im cheap .............neither is correct, I charge normal rate in my area $50 per man hour sometimes more .............sheesh assumptions will get you nowhere fast .............


ok now to address the OP about those doors he needs to do!! 

just get as much product on the material as best you can, id use a 4x1/2'' an back brush, maybe tape hinges and definitely remove knob............roll the frames as well then back brush...........don't play with a dry roller, get into a rhythm and you'll find yourself dipping the roller automatically and that's the key  ......... makes no sense to wait for the roller to dry up ......boom boom booom dip ..............boom boom boom dip ..............TEMPO ITS ALL ABOUT TEMPO......in the army theres a saying ''slow is steady and steady is fast''


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

It's not about you ole. Timhag is turtle heading his way out of the ace crack of the industry.


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## timhag (Sep 30, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> Deliberately putting brush marks into a door fast is not production. Would take much longer to sand them out.


He do how he do, you do how you do. Whats the problem? I'm sure you will not be called out to his jobs to fix how he do.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Tim:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=turtlehead


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## timhag (Sep 30, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> It's not about you ole. Timhag is turtle heading his way out of the ace crack of the industry.


Thanks to you :thumbsup:


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## timhag (Sep 30, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> Tim:
> 
> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=turtlehead


:laughing::laughing:


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

timhag said:


> Thanks to you :thumbsup:


Yes, you can use it as your sig.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> Tim:
> 
> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=turtlehead


Too funny! Now I'm going to think of that every time I see Tim's shiny noggin!


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

RCP said:


> Too funny! Now I'm going to think of that every time I see Tim's shiny noggin!


That's our boy, joining the rat race.


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## DHlll (Dec 22, 2010)

i wouldnt put that door on a sh+t house door of a scallop boat. And thats bad.

I can only imagine the rope-a-dope.


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

Thank you Austin Powers!.....and thank you VP - one my favourite low brow lines!!


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

DHlll said:


> i wouldnt put that door on a sh+t house door of a scallop boat. And thats bad.
> 
> I can only imagine the rope-a-dope.


That's funny... I was just in West Marine yesterday purchasing the $240/gal epiphanes. They have scallop boat crap house door rubbed oil effect. :jester:


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

P&H

Just when they said it's all been done here at pt. I did a search. This the turtleheads debut.


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## timhag (Sep 30, 2007)

....


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> P&H
> 
> Just when they said it's all been done here at pt. I did a search. This the turtleheads debut.



Take a bow VP.....class act all the way.


I didn't read this thread, just the turtle head comment. Ugly indeed....Ole keep postin' your vids dude - I get a kick out of them. Don't worry about the comments.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> P&H
> 
> Just when they said it's all been done here at pt. I did a search. This the turtleheads debut.


Can't wait for the blog...


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Sean just asked me to cut the crap, I guess there have been complaints. Deepest apologies to anyone offended by the banter between Tim and I. No turtles were harmed in the making of this thread, just a few feelings.


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## timhag (Sep 30, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> Sean just asked me to cut the crap, I guess there have been complaints. Deepest apologies to anyone offended by the banter between Tim and I. No turtles were harmed in the making of this thread, just a few feelings.


Sheeze! Can't two people have an adult conversation around here?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

timhag said:


> Sheeze! Can't two people have an adult conversation around here?


Not if you are a cliche suspect.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> Deliberately putting brush marks into a door fast is not production. Would take much longer to sand them out.


 Back OT, JP I have had clients and designers who want a brushed finish. Last time she said it would give a more craftsman feel. I sprayed some smooth shaker style doors for her on a job and she said they looked to perfect. :thumbsup:


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## timhag (Sep 30, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> Not if you are a cliche suspect.


Never us :whistling2:


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

And so began the new era of cliche oppression...


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> Back OT, JP I have had clients and designers who want a brushed finish. Last time she said it would give a more craftsman feel. I sprayed some smooth shaker style doors for her on a job and she said they looked to perfect. :thumbsup:


Thats funny. Out here they wont have them any other way then sprayed.


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## timhag (Sep 30, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> And so began the new era of cliche oppression...


:yes::icon_cry:


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Is that a piece of corn?


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> Back OT, JP I have had clients and designers who want a brushed finish. Last time she said it would give a more craftsman feel. I sprayed some smooth shaker style doors for her on a job and she said they looked to perfect. :thumbsup:


Yeah I agree, some things need that not so perfect look. Like some of these MDF doors I've seen. Seems the more of something you can put on them the better off you are. If you shoot a FF on them, that only makes them look worse.


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## canadianpainter (Mar 7, 2009)

I'd work with you Ole. I too can paint doors that fast without any brush or roller marks...actually I think I could paint it even faster simply because I only use a brush for the indented parts of the panels and a roller for the rest. 

Also, to whoever said they've never used a latex finish paint that spreads as well as Ole's vid...well, you're doing it wrong. Thin the paint if it needs it; more often than not, it needs it.  For me, getting my guys to thin the paint is by far the toughest habit for me to get them to pick up.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

canadianpainter said:


> I'd work with you Ole. I too can paint doors that fast without any brush or roller marks...actually I think I could paint it even faster simply because I only use a brush for the indented parts of the panels and a roller for the rest.
> 
> Also, to whoever said they've never used a latex finish paint that spreads as well as Ole's vid...well, you're doing it wrong. Thin the paint if it needs it; more often than not, it needs it.  For me, getting my guys to thin the paint is by far the toughest habit for me to get them to pick up.


The guy who said that hasn't painted anything during the current generation of waterborne technology.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

you can't thin today's paints!!!! Water is half-a$$ed thinner, and the professional products like XIM or floetrol were never tested for all latex paints and probably were last formulated 7 years ago. Maybe I'd buy the stuff that ben moore makes specific to their Aura paint. But the way I see it, if you change the properties of paint that much - how come the paint company doesn't just make it like that to begin with?!?!!

I use paints the way they were formulated, straight of the can. If you start messing with things, who knows what the results are? Oil paints are always safe to thin, latex just isn't the same animal. It's frightening that most guys will perverse the product so much to fit within what they consider acceptable production - why not accept what paints do now and reformulate a reasonable man-hour rate?

As far as I am concerned I can match those production rates with the $13/gallon semigloss paint that my local paint store stocks for all the immigrant hispanic painters - but then what my customers are left with is $13/gallon quality paint on their doors.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

So many issues, so many excuses, so much time, so little business.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

plainpainter said:


> If you start messing with things, who knows what the results are?


I'm gonna go WAY out on a limb here and answer: "pro paint contractor"


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> I'm gonna go WAY out on a limb here and answer: "pro paint contractor"


I agree. Commercial grade products are made to be tweaked.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

plainpainter said:


> As far as I am concerned I can match those production rates with the $13/gallon semigloss paint that my local paint store stocks for all the immigrant hispanic painters - but then what my customers are left with is $13/gallon quality paint on their doors.


 
this is the last time i am going to tell you so listen carefully!! ........... that was latex PRIMER in the video over latex semi-gloss, i didnt thin the paint but i did apply more then you would cause i can and if you watch the video again and look closely youll notice that i only taped the side of the can once or twice now thats a lot of paint on the brush and combine that with my brush skills and it WILL spread far ...........dont worry about what i do cause its above your head ...................and if you still ensist on saying that i thinned the paint then explaine to me how it covered that deep blue so well ?? ...............dont ever compare what results you get from paint and what results i get cause we are not the same


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

Bender said:


> I agree. Commercial grade products are made to be tweaked.


 
it says it right on the can to thin lol ................paint is to thick these days to cover the manufactures ass's ........anybody with half a brain will cut the paint as needed and it also retards dry time, wet edge is the name of the game


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Gotta say it, Basco has never put out a video. Bring it Danno.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Hi I'm Jack. I'm a thinoholic. Two paints I will not reduce are Duration Home and Devoe DevFlex. I like the way paints come ridiculously thick because you can thin according to your needs.


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## canadianpainter (Mar 7, 2009)

vermontpainter said:


> The guy who said that hasn't painted anything during the current generation of waterborne technology.


Oh please, last year we spread six figures worth of paint, $3400 in aura last month alone.

Plainpainter, I understand your position, however I paint a lot of things and I see how they hold up and thinning with water at 1:10 changes nothing in a negative way for me. Once you try it you'll be a believer.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

canadianpainter said:


> Oh please, last year we spread six figures worth of paint, $3400 in aura last month alone.
> 
> Plainpainter, I understand your position, however I paint a lot of things and I see how they hold up and thinning with water at 1:10 changes nothing in a negative way for me. Once you try it you'll be a believer.


I didn't mean you. I meant the guy you were referring to.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

jack pauhl said:


> Hi I'm Jack. I'm a thinoholic. Two paints I will not reduce are Duration Home and Devoe DevFlex. I like the way paints come ridiculously thick because you can thin according to your needs.


 
my old boss used to say that you know its a good paint if it can handle a lot of water .........and hes right, try thinning cheap paint and its a disaster


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## Brian339 (Mar 15, 2009)

I stayed off this forum for almost a year because I saw way to much of this waste of time crap. I have also learned that on forums its just the way it goes. I dont really need to hang out here to talk about how good I am and what I know I am a paid professional.
I really come here to congregate with some fellow painters. The rest is useless and totally unproductive.

Anyway I am going in tomorrow and I am going to use some XIM extender and roll and back brush a few and see how it goes. I have been around way long enough to know how to change it up. We will see how it goes......wish me luck and high profits. Well I will settle for a strong days pay!

I always thin my paints nowadays. Its absolutely necessary.

BTW Ole you inspire me keep up the good work!


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## canadianpainter (Mar 7, 2009)

vermontpainter said:


> I didn't mean you. I meant the guy you were referring to.


LOL my bad. :insertredfacesmiley:


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

Brian339 said:


> I stayed off this forum for almost a year because I saw way to much of this waste of time crap. I have also learned that on forums its just the way it goes. I dont really need to hang out hear to talk about how good I am and what I know I am a paid professional.
> I really come here to congregate with some fellow painters. The rest is useless and totally unproductive.
> 
> Anyway I am going in tomorrow and I am going to use some XIM extender and roll and back brush a few and see how it goes. I have been around way long enough to know how to change it up. We will see how it goes......wish me luck and high profits. Well I will settle for a strong days pay!
> ...


 
thanks man i appreciate it .....good luck to you and remember, dont play with a dry roller and find your rhythm


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Ole34 said:


> my old boss used to say that you know its a good paint if it can handle a lot of water .........and hes right, try thinning cheap paint and its a disaster


There are guys out there who refuse to thin. I've worked with a few over the years. I keep saying, you're fighting that paint for nothing. Thin it. Go baby go! 

I will say tho... I dont reduce randomly. I use measures so I can easily replicate an experience with any product. What if you run out and need more paint? Its good to keep measures.


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## ligboozer (Oct 13, 2009)

A fireplace, some candles and a dude.

I was worried where that video was going.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

ligboozer said:


> A fireplace, some candles and a dude.
> 
> I was worried where that video was going.


 

yeah i know but thats how it went down...was a spur of the moment type of thing.......i just turned the radio on and the girl already had the candles lit and i was to hyped up to worry about so i just went for it


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Plus, thinning the paint helps me lower my bids.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

im good at one thing around here and thats bringing out the lurkers lol


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## canadianpainter (Mar 7, 2009)

ligboozer said:


> A fireplace, some candles and a dude.
> 
> I was worried where that video was going.


LOL. When I saw the fireplace I was thinking, oh **** that door's done gonna have brush marks if he don't bust his ass ah hic ah hic.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

jack pauhl said:


> I dont reduce randomly. I use measures so I can easily replicate an experience with any product. What if you run out and need more paint? Its good to keep measures.


 i thin the same amount everytime cause i only use M.A.B paint for the most part so i know by now how to work it and i also make my coffee every morning by guessing and it seems to taste the same everyday lol......................this is going to sound crazy but i hold the can under the spigot and crank the knob for a givin ammount of time, i just stop by reflex i guess and if you asked me how much i thinned i couldnt answer you but i could go to the sink an fill a can up with the correct ammount every single time ..........


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> Sean just asked me to cut the crap, I guess there have been complaints. Deepest apologies to anyone offended by the banter between Tim and I. No turtles were harmed in the making of this thread, just a few feelings.


There are always complaints, can't please em all. 



timhag said:


> Sheeze! Can't two people have an adult conversation around here?


I keep thinking one day it may happen around here. lol



NEPS.US said:


> So many issues, so many excuses, so much time, so little business.


Sig worthy. :thumbup:



Brian339 said:


> I stayed off this forum for almost a year because I saw way to much of this waste of time crap. I have also learned that on forums its just the way it goes. I dont really need to hang out here to talk about how good I am and what I know I am a paid professional.
> I really come here to congregate with some fellow painters. The rest is useless and totally unproductive.
> 
> Anyway I am going in tomorrow and I am going to use some XIM extender and roll and back brush a few and see how it goes. I have been around way long enough to know how to change it up. We will see how it goes......wish me luck and high profits. Well I will settle for a strong days pay!
> ...


Brian, I believe you did get some helpful answers and you also got some banter, that just kind of happens on forums because many of us have been posting for years and years and have gotten familiar with each others postings. 

Glad you got a plan and I wish you luck and high profits. Also don't be a stranger become a regular.


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## propainterJ (Jan 31, 2011)

Ah yes,brushing doors,what fun,OLE give it about 20 years and your hands and arms will hurt so bad,your gonna wish you had used an airless.

I really dont understand how so many painters are do deadset against spraying.

It's a great mystery.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

propainterJ said:


> Ah yes,brushing doors,what fun,OLE give it about 20 years and your hands and arms will hurt so bad,your gonna wish you had used an airless.
> 
> I really dont understand how so many painters are do deadset against spraying.
> 
> It's a great mystery.


I hear you, I try and utilize mine when ever possible. What is even harder to understand is the spray guys that are so dependent on their rigs that they never learned to use a brush and think they know everything about painting.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

propainterJ said:


> Ah yes,brushing doors,what fun,OLE give it about 20 years and your hands and arms will hurt so bad,your gonna wish you had used an airless.
> 
> I really dont understand how so many painters are do deadset against spraying.
> 
> It's a great mystery.


It took me a long time to get into spraying. It became a production issue because of an overwhelming workload. It came down to no choice. I can brush and roll with the best of them but I wont hesitate to fire up the $299 Graco Tradeworks to shoot the smallest things because its so lightweight and simple to clean. I watch guys masking and the time it takes them. Those are the guys saying its quicker to brush, sometimes it is. 

Today... perfect example. Small area above fireplace, 2 pieces of crown and 2 pcs of baseboard.


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## JoseyWales (Jan 8, 2011)

I notice that most of your jobsites are empty...Would you still shoot that fireplace ,mouldings and base in an occupied home? Most of my jobs have carpet or hardwood and furniture to deal with...Spraying in that environment scares me.

What paint did you shoot?..Nice work!


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

Josey hit the nail why I very seldom spray. If you had to do those two pieces, and you weren't already covered everywhere else, would you? And the couch and chairs were in the room, etc.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

I've wondered the same thing about spraying in people's homes. The only times I have ever sprayed was when they bought a home and it was before they moved in.

The one time I sprayed trim in a home where folks had semi-moved out, despite all my efforts - a ton of overspray travelled up a stairway and deposited on unprotected surfaces all over the 2nd floor. Which resulted in a lot of out of pocket losses that turned the job into a sour loss. 

The few times I have been involved in exterior spraying - in each case I found evidence that overspay travelled and deposited on surfaces over a hundred feet away. This is despite turning pressures all the way down, waiting for a day with no wind, etc. Now the majority of the time the surfaces of were no consequence, i.e. old neglected sheds, etc. But seems to me it's just a matter of a time before some nice White Mercedes gets a few dots on it.


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

Never spray in occupied homes anymore. Just not worth the risk and the hassle. Sometimes on a large renovation job with lots of new work I'll take over the garage and spray window grills and stuff like that, maybe some doors but that's all. I was on a job where they had this "special" spray guy come in to spray the kitchen cabinets red gloss oil. The red spray paint some how got into a vent duct system and ended up in many other rooms of the house with a residue on furniture etc. I wouldn't have believed it if I didn't see it myself. The sh!t was everywhere!


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

plainpainter said:


> I've wondered the same thing about spraying in people's homes. The only times I have ever sprayed was when they bought a home and it was before they moved in.
> 
> The one time I sprayed trim in a home where folks had semi-moved out, despite all my efforts - a ton of overspray travelled up a stairway and deposited on unprotected surfaces all over the 2nd floor. Which resulted in a lot of out of pocket losses that turned the job into a sour loss.
> 
> The few times I have been involved in exterior spraying - in each case I found evidence that overspay travelled and deposited on surfaces over a hundred feet away. This is despite turning pressures all the way down, waiting for a day with no wind, etc. Now the majority of the time the surfaces of were no consequence, i.e. old neglected sheds, etc. But seems to me it's just a matter of a time before some nice White Mercedes gets a few dots on it.


 
This is what happens when "contractors" lack proper training. A few bad experiences condems the whole process.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

JoseyWales said:


> I notice that most of your jobsites are empty...Would you still shoot that fireplace ,mouldings and base in an occupied home? Most of my jobs have carpet or hardwood and furniture to deal with...Spraying in that environment scares me.
> 
> What paint did you shoot?..Nice work!


Yes the majority are new homes but I've sprayed on repaints. You can spray with an airless and barely leave a trace you sprayed anything. Guys think max psi is how to spray. Its always 3300 cranked. When they can be shooting just over half that. I noticed many Sherwin Williams paints go airborne badly but not a problem with some other paints.

The previous photo was taken prior to spraying. That is actually primer, it was primed earlier. This area below was sprayed today with ProClassic water/alkyd. I candy coat everything. Pushed this paint to its limits today.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Chasing runs and sags today?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Jumping at shadows. I know the feeling.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

NEPS.US said:


> Chasing runs and sags today?


it was fully on the brink and ready to let loose. I'm surprised how heavy you can apply ProClassic water/alkyd. In the cold tho, that doesnt apply.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> Jumping at shadows. I know the feeling.


Tomorrow I get to spray some walnut 6 panel doors. Yep. I'll take pictures.


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## ligboozer (Oct 13, 2009)

jack pauhl said:


> Yes the majority are new homes but I've sprayed on repaints. You can spray with an airless and barely leave a trace you sprayed anything. Guys think max psi is how to spray. Its always 3300 cranked.


 
For sure. I've worked with some guys and wondered if they knew there was a pressure control knob.

Occasionally there is the job where either option (brush/spray) seems viable, but when it comes time for the second or third coat the decision to mask and spray is worth it.


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## JHill (May 13, 2010)

CliffK said:


> Never spray in occupied homes anymore. Just not worth the risk and the hassle. Sometimes on a large renovation job with lots of new work I'll take over the garage and spray window grills and stuff like that, maybe some doors but that's all. I was on a job where they had this "special" spray guy come in to spray the kitchen cabinets red gloss oil. The red spray paint some how got into a vent duct system and ended up in many other rooms of the house with a residue on furniture etc. I wouldn't have believed it if I didn't see it myself. The sh!t was everywhere!


 If you don't cover the cold air returns your going to have a mess. We put insulation in them so the duct still breaths, but paint can't get through.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

JHill said:


> If you don't cover the cold air returns your going to have a mess. We put insulation in them so the duct still breaths, but paint can't get through.


I have some washable filters that I have cut down to fit over returns and registers. Another thing that works very well is the mesh strainer bags, just cut them to fit.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

JHill said:


> If you don't cover the cold air returns your going to have a mess. We put insulation in them so the duct still breaths, but paint can't get through.


 Or just IDK, shut the entire HVAC system down while you are spraying. You should be exhausting your area to the outside as well. 

Expensive investment, but I have had mine for six years now. Mandatory for spraying solvent based paint inside an occupied home. It will also clear a room in no time, when I spray ceilings.


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

straight_lines said:


> Or just IDK, shut the entire HVAC system down while you are spraying. You should be exhausting your area to the outside as well.
> 
> Expensive investment, but I have had mine for six years now. Mandatory for spraying solvent based paint inside an occupied home. It will also clear a room in no time, when I spray ceilings.


I like the looks of that Straightlines. What kind of $ are we talking? If I ever find myself getting the urge to spray in an occupied home that looks like a great idea. Thanks


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I paid around $1100 for mine years ago, that one has an explosion proof blower in it. I think it retails for around $2000 now.

You may be able to find one cheaper, but all fire proof fans are expensive because the motor is sealed.


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## JHill (May 13, 2010)

straight_lines said:


> Or just IDK, shut the entire HVAC system down while you are spraying. You should be exhausting your area to the outside as well.
> 
> Expensive investment, but I have had mine for six years now. Mandatory for spraying solvent based paint inside an occupied home. It will also clear a room in no time, when I spray ceilings.


Yea that would work great, except when it's 0 degrees outside with a windchill of 20 below, the homeowners arent going to want to sit in their house wearing arctic clothing. It's not to often we spray solvent based materials.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Cliff I found a similar unit for $1000, don't think the hoses are included. You can even stack these inline if you needed more power.
Amazon.com: Air Systems SVF-10EXP 10" Explosion-proof Electric In-Line Axial Blower For Running Long Lengths Of Ventilation Ducting: Industrial & Scientific

@Jhill I don't live in the artic circle like you guys, it does get in the 20s for a few weeks here thou.


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## Felan Painting (Jun 24, 2010)

Brian339 said:


> 25 years experience and still taking advice.....
> 
> I am using Muralo Semi-Gloss on new 6 panel masonite doors. I need to really bust this job out because I am doing it for a song. I also need to have a nice finish product because this is a new account. In the past I never needed to worry about costs but nowadays its everything. Color is white dove. Spraying is not an option.
> 
> ...


Hi Brian, we use enamel self level. such as sherwin-williams pro-classic non oil. GREAT STUFF! leaves an almost spray look finish , when applied by 1/4 nap never back roll. Does not matter if smooth or grained . We have done 100s onsite where you cant spray. Kind of pricey but worth it !:yes:


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Remember that nice candy coated finish on the fireplace?

They decided the fireplace was 9 inches too high so they torn it apart and lowered it. Gotta love that!

Before




After


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Huge improvement!


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> Huge improvement!


I shot it today with SuperPaint, now time to stain that walnut fireplace!


Scott, I forgot to take an after photo. I'll try to get one. They turned out nice. They are pockets for an office finished in walnut and ash burl. I did 2 heavily reduced coats of primer then 1 less reduced. Ran an orbital with 220 over it to basically burn the primer back off then shot it 2 more times with primer and 2 finish.


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## propainterJ (Jan 31, 2011)

I spray in occupied homes all the time,with the furniture and TVs moved to the middle of the rooms.

Painters plastic and 2" tape works great everytime.

Never let the HVAC run while spraying though,or when overspray is in the air.

Never have ruined anybodys furniture or floor,never not once in 25 years.

Takes a while but it's not hard.


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## ddemair (Nov 3, 2008)

Brian339 said:


> ... it would be nice to do 28 doors and frames one coat in one day to my standards.
> .


Maybe it would be nice, but that seems terribly unrealistic. I would be pretty ecstatic with half that.

For speed, I use a combination of a brush and a 4" roller. Usually 1/4" nap because I don't want to see any roller texture. Since you're doing 2 coats anyway, 1/4" nap should work fine. The recessed part of the panel and the bolection molding gets done with a brush, I cut in around the hinges with a brush and then everything else gets rolled, even the edges.


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