# The Paint Estimator software



## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

*Loving The Paint Estimator softwar*

I have no idea how that angry face got in my title. It should be a . 

Pat’s software, The Paint Estimator is amazing. Talk about bidding with confidence. You can figure out how long a job will take to the last hour. It’s extremely accurate. It does take a little longer to do the estimate but well worth it. One of the best buys I’ve made in a long long time. The next few weeks I will be recording all of my production rates. I can’t wait to have the software updated with all of my production rates and materials to be able to print off dead accurate estimates that look super profesional. J

The one thing that confuses me not about the software but about the coverage rates on the back of a paint can. Lets say you use Lifemaster eggshell (a terrific paint I might add), the coverage on the can says it gets 300-400sqft. I’m assuming that is one coat? Or maybe that means complete coverage which would mean 2 coats? Or am I wrong on that? I find a full gallon of eggshell will paint a lot more the 400sqft with 2 coats.
Do other people out there use the coverage rates to figure out how much paint is needed? I normally just look at a room and know but I would like to start being a little more organized and accurtate. Can someone explain this?


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

Thanks Aaron. The coverage on the back of the can is for one coat and it really depends on the surface you are applying it on to get the real coverage area. The number they list is just a general ballpark number for your typical walls. I know some have gotten up to 800sqft using aura even though the can says 300-400. I think it says that.

Example - take a color coated stucco "color that was added to the stucco" wall vs the same wall that was painted several times. You might only get 200sqft for that color coated wall where you could double that for the painted wall.

Pat


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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

PatsPainting said:


> Thanks Aaron. The coverage on the back of the can is for one coat and it really depends on the surface you are applying it on to get the real coverage area. The number they list is just a general ballpark number for your typical walls. I know some have gotten up to 800sqft using aura even though the can says 300-400. I think it says that.
> 
> Example - take a color coated stucco "color that was added to the stucco" wall vs the same wall that was painted several times. You might only get 200sqft for that color coated wall where you could double that for the painted wall.
> 
> Pat


I find_ I can paint a whole 10x10 bedroom with less then a gallon of eggshell, two coats....that's almost 800 sqft. I don't understand why the back of the can is so off. You can really buy paint by looking at the numbers on the back. But with matte sheen, it takes more then a gallon. _


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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

PatsPainting said:


> Thanks Aaron. The coverage on the back of the can is for one coat and it really depends on the surface you are applying it on to get the real coverage area. The number they list is just a general ballpark number for your typical walls. I know some have gotten up to 800sqft using aura even though the can says 300-400. I think it says that.
> 
> Example - take a color coated stucco "color that was added to the stucco" wall vs the same wall that was painted several times. You might only get 200sqft for that color coated wall where you could double that for the painted wall.
> 
> Pat


I find_ I can paint a whole 10x10 bedroom with less then a gallon of eggshell, two coats....that's almost 800 sqft. I don't understand why the back of the can is so off. You cant really buy paint by looking at the numbers on the back. But with matte sheen, it takes more then a gallon. _


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

Westview said:


> I find_ I can paint a whole 10x10 bedroom with less then a gallon of eggshell, two coats....that's almost 800 sqft. I don't understand why the back of the can is so off. You cant really buy paint by looking at the numbers on the back. But with matte sheen, it takes more then a gallon. _


If this 10x10 room has 8' walls, few doors and a few windows then it's more closer to 575sqft. I would bet you used about half or maybe 2/3 of the paint on the second time around. Enamels seem to go a bit farther.

But I really have no clue where they get those numbers from. For the most part I think they are pretty accurate when doing typical repaints. It's a good starting or reference point.

Pat


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Westview said:


> I find I can paint a whole 10x10 bedroom with less then a gallon of eggshell, two coats....that's almost 800 sqft. I don't understand why the back of the can is so off. You cant really buy paint by looking at the numbers on the back. But with matte sheen, it takes more then a gallon.


Seriously? You aren't applying paint properly. Just because you can squeeze a super thin coat on, or water the crap out of a gallon, doesn't make it right. Paint theoretical spread rates are based on a WFT and DFT. If you are getting 800' out of a gallon of material, its not being applied according to spec. Not even close.


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

ditto what nc said. If you painted that 10x10 room twice with one gallon, you just cheated yourself out of the labor from the extra coat. With the correct roller nap for the wall you should apply any interior paint at 3-5 mils. That would yield 300-400 sq/ft per gallon. You are most likely applying it at 1-2. Thin with just enough xim or floetrol to keep the paint wet during brush to roll transition, then put it on!!


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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

NCPaint1 said:


> Seriously? You aren't applying paint properly. Just because you can squeeze a super thin coat on, or water the crap out of a gallon, doesn't make it right. Paint theoretical spread rates are based on a WFT and DFT. If you are getting 800' out of a gallon of material, its not being applied according to spec. Not even close.


I get different results with different paints. I find flat paints normally stay true to what is written on the can but eggshells is another story. No I'm not putting the paint on the wall wrong. I'm not going to lay it on thick so I get orangle peel. I back roll the hell out of my walls always ending in a downward stroke and I always get coverage with two coats. It's always better to apply thin coats vs thick coats. I just don't understand why the back of the can is so off.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Westview said:


> I just don't understand why the back of the can is so off.


Do an experiment. Check out a data sheet on a product that you're using, check the recommended wet film thickness with a gauge as you're applying it as you normally would. I bet you'll be surprised. That info on the back of the can has been put there for a reason. Manufacturers aren't "guessing" when they're printing off labels. Yes, I understand how different substrates act. Yes I understand that its theoretical coverage, and different substrates can change that +/-. Its shouldn't change by 50%+ as you're describing. 

I'm not knocking your technique, and its hard to write this stuff in a non a-hole sounding way, so don't take it like I am.


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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

I use a nap length of 1/2", the correct nap length. I've had other painting contractor friends say the same thing I'm saying. You can't roll paint on super thick....I'm not sure what you guys are talking about. Rolling it on thick gives a poor finish...orange peel. A good painter applies thin coats. I thought everyone knew that. Why do you think painters back roll? It lays the paint down, smoothes and thins it out. I'm not offended, I just don't agree with what you're saying.


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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

NCPaint1 said:


> Do an experiment. Check out a data sheet on a product that you're using, check the recommended wet film thickness with a gauge as you're applying it as you normally would. I bet you'll be surprised. That info on the back of the can has been put there for a reason. Manufacturers aren't "guessing" when they're printing off labels. Yes, I understand how different substrates act. Yes I understand that its theoretical coverage, and different substrates can change that +/-. Its shouldn't change by 50%+ as you're describing.
> 
> I'm not knocking your technique, and its hard to write this stuff in a non a-hole sounding way, so don't take it like I am.


I could see mil thickness being an issue when painting machinery for durability reasons but on interiors ...I don’t think so. I’m more concerned about getting full coverage with two coats.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Westview said:


> I could see mil thickness being an issue when painting machinery for durability reasons but on interiors ...I don&#146;t think so. I&#146;m more concerned about getting full coverage with two coats.


That's just it. You could very well be able to get the job done faster with less coats if applying the right thickness


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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

NCPaint1 said:


> That's just it. You could very well be able to get the job done faster with less coats if applying the right thickness


You can't paint an interior with one coat. Always takes 2 unless you are repainting the same colour as the current colour on the wall. Slopping paint on the wall super thick will look terrible.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Westview said:


> You can't paint an interior with one coat. Always takes 2 unless you are repainting the same colour as the current colour on the wall. Slopping paint on the wall super thick will look terrible.


Not super thick, just the proper thickness.  

Yes, you most certainly can paint one coat. My whole interior is one coat(mostly).


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

Probably should re name this thread lol. 

The Paint Estimator - Decide for yourself, is the spread rates on the back of the can bull chit or not?

Pat


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

NCPaint1 said:


> Not super thick, just the proper thickness.
> 
> Yes, you most certainly can paint one coat. My whole interior is one coat(mostly).


90% of color changes takes 2 coats. that's from 20 years experience. when you factor in the spot priming and other BS,that's the way to go.


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

PatsPainting said:


> Probably should re name this thread lol.
> 
> The Paint Estimator - Decide for yourself, is the spread rates on the back of the can bull chit or not?
> 
> Pat


Most paints spread at 350 sq' gallon..That's about right.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> Seriously? You aren't applying paint properly. Just because you can squeeze a super thin coat on, or water the crap out of a gallon, doesn't make it right. Paint theoretical spread rates are based on a WFT and DFT. If you are getting 800' out of a gallon of material, its not being applied according to spec. Not even close.


Good point. Can you imagine the ramifications of painting a 10x10 bedroom this way?


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## Custom Brush Co. (Jan 26, 2011)

Westview said:


> I find I can paint a whole 10x10 bedroom with less then a gallon of eggshell, two coats....that's almost 800 sqft. I don't understand why the back of the can is so off. You can really buy paint by looking at the numbers on the back. But with matte sheen, it takes more then a gallon.


LMAO

Guessing you're new to the trade or self tought? Outside I average 250sqft per gallon. Inside it's 350sqft pet gallon. We achieve a warm even glow, with the wall left feeling smooth & saturated. With the color of the chip & the wall the same color cause the underlying color isn't coming through as with thin, dry coatings.

My first boss would say to you, "dip again!" If you even started to dry roll, push hard to get the paint out, make it sound like you cleaning cat hairs off your clothes with a lint roller.

dip again! Lol


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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

Custom Brush Co. said:


> LMAO
> 
> Guessing you're new to the trade or self tought? Outside I average 250sqft per gallon. Inside it's 350sqft pet gallon. We achieve a warm even glow, with the wall left feeling smooth & saturated. With the color of the chip & the wall the same color cause the underlying color isn't coming through as with thin, dry coatings.
> 
> ...


Riiiiiight. What ever you say. You guys make it sound difficult to roll a wall.


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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

NCPaint1 said:


> Not super thick, just the proper thickness.
> 
> Yes, you most certainly can paint one coat. My whole interior is one coat(mostly).


Sounds like magic paint.


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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

NCPaint1 said:


> Seriously? You aren't applying paint properly. Just because you can squeeze a super thin coat on, or water the crap out of a gallon, doesn't make it right. Paint theoretical spread rates are based on a WFT and DFT. If you are getting 800' out of a gallon of material, its not being applied according to spec. Not even close.


Who said anything about adding water to the paint? I just realized I forgot to subtract windows, doors and closet doors from the wall area which would make the spread rate on the back of the can a little more accurate.


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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

....


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Westview said:


> Who said anything about adding water to the paint? I just realized I forgot to subtract windows, doors and closet doors from the wall area which would make the spread rate on the back of the can a little more accurate.


Hey Westview
We just did a bedroom the other day with one gallon of bm regal select eggshell two coats. Don't feel bad, it really does happen. I put the first coat on full strength with a new 1/2" corona nap my dealer gave me to try out, and it was kinda hot in there so the paint was setting up fast. Decided to add a little water to the second coat just because of the heat etc and had some leftover after the second coat, so probably didn't need to add it for spread rate. Probably a 12x14 room so not tiny. Was a light purple, (little girls room) and almost looked perfect after first coat, covered really well. Just put the second coat on cuz I had the materials, and of course since it was T&M ;-)
Actually the HO wanted the second coat, who am I to argue?


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

If I tried to put Aura on at 400 sq. ft. Per gallon, I think it would be a sagging mess. Try a microfiber cover and paint goes reeeeeaaaaall far.


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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

DeanV said:


> If I tried to put Aura on at 400 sq. ft. Per gallon, I think it would be a sagging mess. Try a microfiber cover and paint goes reeeeeaaaaall far.


Yes I agree.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Damon T said:


> Hey Westview
> We just did a bedroom the other day with one gallon of bm regal select eggshell two coats. Don't feel bad, it really does happen. I put the first coat on full strength with a new 1/2" corona nap my dealer gave me to try out, and it was kinda hot in there so the paint was setting up fast. Decided to add a little water to the second coat just because of the heat etc and had some leftover after the second coat, so probably didn't need to add it for spread rate. Probably a 12x14 room so not tiny. Was a light purple, (little girls room) and almost looked perfect after first coat, covered really well. Just put the second coat on cuz I had the materials, and of course since it was T&M ;-)
> Actually the HO wanted the second coat, who am I to argue?


 Some of the new self priming paints from BM do have unbelievable covering properties. (Aura, Regal Select). However, I find that they may look about 85% after one coat, but 110% after 2..:thumbsup: Always better to just do 2 coats. Makes you sleep better at night.


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