# Drywaller blaming his joints shrinking due to my paint?



## UnDeRtOw00

Ok...been working alot of new construction the last few years...been spraying primer ceilings and doors before they are hung. Now there is an issue with the drywall. All his buttjoints have shrunk up leaving "low" spots everywhere. The Drywaller is blaming me for spraying? Now it is Winter here -10 below but the houses are heated. Could the humidity in the house from spraying caused his compound to "shrink up"? Has this ever happened to anyone else? I just have a hard time believing him because ive never had an issue before, but i can't say that i noticed any problems before i finished the ceilings. 
This isn't an ussue about money or who's gonna pay to fix it. I just want to know it could have been my wrong doing. I think its just rush construction. The drywall mud isn't curing proper between coats. They only used electric heaters when doing the drywall. I made sure heat was on for a day before starting to paint. I think this is a no brainer.
any help would be greatly appreiciated.


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## TJ Paint

painters always blame the drywallers, and vice versa.


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## NEPS.US

UnDeRtOw00 said:


> Ok...been working alot of new construction the last few years...been spraying primer ceilings and doors before they are hung. Now there is an issue with the drywall. All his buttjoints have shrunk up leaving "low" spots everywhere. The Drywaller is blaming me for spraying? Now it is Winter here -10 below but the houses are heated. Could the humidity in the house from spraying caused his compound to "shrink up"? Has this ever happened to anyone else? I just have a hard time believing him because ive never had an issue before, but i can't say that i noticed any problems before i finished the ceilings.
> This isn't an ussue about money or who's gonna pay to fix it. I just want to know it could have been my wrong doing. I think its just rush construction. The drywall mud isn't curing proper between coats. They only used electric heaters when doing the drywall. I made sure heat was on for a day before starting to paint. I think this is a no brainer.
> any help would be greatly appreiciated.


We are having some similar problems with plaster. It's the time of the year combined with multiple curing times of mud/plaster under the final coat.


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## 2buckcanuck

electric heat is the better heat,but did they run dehumidifiers too.your talking it's just his butt joints,but was other stuff showing up bad.and I'm just wondering if you backed rolled.One way to know neither one of you are at fault,push on the walls,if screws start to pop,there is your answer


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## jack pauhl

Think about it... paint wont make joints shrink. Even if it could, thats not your problem.


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## 2buckcanuck

jack pauhl said:


> Think about it... paint wont make joints shrink. Even if it could, thats not your problem.


your right,it won't shrink the mud,but without seeing the work,I'm guessing flashing.now the tapers work(butts) may of been bad,but without back rolling this may of exposed the butts more,b/c of the flashing,it draws a persons eyes to any bad area's quicker.hard to know without seeing.But being a taper,it does drive us nuts when a painter just sprays and does not back roll.rolling helps to hide a lot of stuff,which helps the painter and the taper down the road.Were not building cars eh'


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## UnDeRtOw00

2buckcanuck said:


> your right,it won't shrink the mud,but without seeing the work,I'm guessing flashing.now the tapers work(butts) may of been bad,but without back rolling this may of exposed the butts more,b/c of the flashing,it draws a persons eyes to any bad area's quicker.hard to know without seeing.But being a taper,it does drive us nuts when a painter just sprays and does not back roll.rolling helps to hide a lot of stuff,which helps the painter and the taper down the road.Were not building cars eh'


 
Yes...I always backroll. Its definitly not flashing. If you saw how badly this shrunk you would laugh at the thought of it being paint flashing. And its not only his butt joints...its everything.


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## Paradigmzz

Have no fear, 2buck will fix it....


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## UnDeRtOw00

Thanks to everyone for your re-assurance. I can't believe this drywaller told the customer it was the paint that caused all this. I have been working with this particualar drywaller for over 2 years now with no issues and now he throws me under the bus. I don't think he realizes that i could make him come back to every job to fix his imperfections instead of fixing them myself. I hate to be like that but when he puts the blame on paint because he doesn't want to "man up" and admit when his guys do a bad job. 
THANKS AGAIN EVERYONE.


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## 6126

I always thought it was the opposite? Usually it expands til it dries. I've primed walls and could see every spot where there was a screw and it goes back down by the next morning. I def agree with backrolling.


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## robladd

Sounds to me like the joint compound wasn't fully cured. When weather doesn't permit for drywall and painting to be performed at rates of other seasons of the year. General Contractors expect Specialty Contractors to meet deadlines they can normally meet during other times of the year. So they try "tricks of the trades" heaters, dehumidifiers, drying agents, ect.
to meet these dead lines. The truth of the matter is drywallers and painters are always under the gun. This is when the person in charge that signed off on the drywall finish was complete should have been held responsible. The question lies on who that was? 
General Contractor or Specialty Contractors. Painters should not be pushed into work that is not ready, and if they are protest and make notes to the surface conditions. No one likes doing work over. But some one has to pay in time and material.


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## johnpaint

I think my joints are shrinking


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## Custom Brush Co.

jack pauhl said:


> Think about it... paint wont make joints shrink. Even if it could, thats not your problem.


Exactly! What makes dry mud shrink.? The drying process or lack of. So if you didn't wait for it to dry all the way to ensure it doesn't need an additional coating (especially on wall hole repairs), it will likely not be to your standards. It did it's job, just needs an artist/drywaller to do theirs..

I had a guy try this with me. He rushed through a bunch of hole patching in the walls using a good method of using 1x2's, drywall screws, and custom cut drywall pieces . He only had a small crack around the perimeter to fill. He mudded the cracks and then not even 20 min later spray textured them. Then most the seams ended up shrinking in a little once they dried.

Needless to say he blamed me for that happening and said I painted over it too quick. BullS#$! I did. Even the HO knew since I pointed out the issue after just 4 hrs of the dude leaving. I waited 48 hrs to prime then paint too.

Day shift is always to blame by night shift and vice versa. Own up to your own BS or quite your job if you call yourself a pro.


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## paintinguy

Tell the guy to take a long hike and really think this thru.
Then ask him if he has lost his mind.
Tell the guy to get a life.
There is NO WAY in history that this on you.
I would smile at the guy and say ( I'll see you in court.)


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## Bender

UnDeRtOw00 said:


> Thanks to everyone for your re-assurance. I can't believe this drywaller told the customer it was the paint that caused all this. I have been working with this particualar drywaller for over 2 years now with no issues and now he throws me under the bus. I don't think he realizes that i could make him come back to every job to fix his imperfections instead of fixing them myself. I hate to be like that but when he puts the blame on paint because he doesn't want to "man up" and admit when his guys do a bad job.
> THANKS AGAIN EVERYONE.


I don't hesitate to have the drywaller come fix _his_ mistakes. I'm not getting paid enough to do my job, let alone his.
My rule of thumb is if its bigger then my 1 1/2 flex blade then its his problem.


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## Gough

paintinguy said:


> Tell the guy to take a long hike and really think this thru.
> Then ask him if he has lost his mind.
> Tell the guy to get a life.
> There is NO WAY in history that this on you.
> I would smile at the guy and say ( I'll see you in court.)


I agree with you on everything but the last line. It's in a lot of commerical contracts and is also "standard practice" in most of the country that the start of work by one specialty subcontractor constitutes acceptance of the work done by previous specialty subcontractors. I've known a number of painting contractors who've been burned pretty badly by this.

When we're not working with a GC who I know has my back, I spend a lot of time with a drop-light and a pencil going over the GWB before we prime, especially non-textured work. When a builder has wanted me to prime before texture, I add an addendum to our contract that priming does NOT mean we're accepting responsibility for the condition of the GWB .


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## ComRemodel

Although I have not seen in a contract what you are talking about I'll take your word for it. I do take issue with it though. First, the taper or drywaller's job is not finished until the DW has been primed. That's the only real way to show up problems and I think that's what the OP is seeing. Secondly, the painting contractor should not be an inspector and responsible for problems caused by other trades. That's the GC's responsibility and it comes as no surprise that a GC would try to screw somebody else over something he should be responsible for.


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## Capt-sheetrock

Sounds to me like bad drywall work. Most likely, rushing, covering before the previous coat was dry. I have seen nails(screws) shrink abit when covered with eggshell, but a flat or a butt that is dry won't shrink with paint. It shrank when it finally dried, before you painted it.


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## Different Strokes

ComRemodel said:


> Although I have not seen in a contract what you are talking about I'll take your word for it. I do take issue with it though. First, the taper or drywaller's job is not finished until the DW has been primed. That's the only real way to show up problems and I think that's what the OP is seeing. Secondly, the painting contractor should not be an inspector and responsible for problems caused by other trades. That's the GC's responsibility and it comes as no surprise that a GC would try to screw somebody else over something he should be responsible for.


I haven't actually heard of that being included in a contract either, but stranger things happen. 

I tend to agree with both Com and Gough. Shotty finish work ends up getting painted because the GC says the area is ready, and the next thing ya know the GC is pointing fingers. "you paint it, you bought it"


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## johnthepainter

thank goodness i dont deal with gc's anymore.


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## Delta Painting

I got a good chuckle outta the first post.. Tell the bum to man up fix his shoddy work and never do the bum another favor by doing his touch up work again...


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## Metro M & L

I'm pretty sure if you read the bag of smooth set or other joint compound it says it should be allowed to cure for a week before paint. Not that that ever happens but I swear I read that.


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## ellas70

what was the time frame in between coats?
how many coats in a 24 hr period on same area?
was there enough drying time between the coats of spackle ?
was there enough drying before the sanding took place ?
what temperature was the house held at during the whole process?
what was the time frame of when you started painting to when the last coat of spackle was applied ?
was there any fast set used or mixed in with spackle ?
was the spackle applied with a box or by hand ?
is the place framed out of wood or metal?

you need all of these questions answered
also see what color the spackle was used for each coat and did you notice if they did two coats or three
there's alot guys out there that just put two coats of mud on but you have to know what your doing to get away with it but not a good idea in the winter 
if the place is framed out of wood well everybody knows what happens to wood between cold and heat 

when ever i do a job i make sure that there is at least a week of drying time in between the sanding to the prime coat 
spackle could be wet for days even when the sanding is done so after they have sanded it is still shrinking
also don't forget everybody always blames the finishers for anything that goes wrong


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## Final Element

*:dry waller for not being vigilant about his product.*



UnDeRtOw00 said:


> Ok...been working alot of new construction the last few years...been spraying primer ceilings and doors before they are hung. Now there is an issue with the drywall. All his buttjoints have shrunk up leaving "low" spots everywhere. The Drywaller is blaming me for spraying? Now it is Winter here -10 below but the houses are heated. Could the humidity in the house from spraying caused his compound to "shrink up"? Has this ever happened to anyone else? I just have a hard time believing him because ive never had an issue before, but i can't say that i noticed any problems before i finished the ceilings.
> This isn't an ussue about money or who's gonna pay to fix it. I just want to know it could have been my wrong doing. I think its just rush construction. The drywall mud isn't curing proper between coats. They only used electric heaters when doing the drywall. I made sure heat was on for a day before starting to paint. I think this is a no brainer.
> any help would be greatly appreiciated.


This happens when the mud has been sitting for a while, and there is a high or higher gypsum content in the mixture.. bunk batch of drywall compound.. as its just the butt joints. im assuming.


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## Monsterinmywalls

*The monster in your walls eating up your mud is mold*

*The monster in your walls eating up your mud is mold.* I am having the same problem. It has been three months since I painted and every day my seems are worse. The mud company rep came by and helped me to appreciate that the mud has a shelf life of six months. Even though there was no visible signs of mold there was a *strong odor* in the mud of two of the seven buckets. The buckets were without dates so evidently the inventory was not rotated. When you add mold to your Google search you will see that others that have had the problem. I plan on replacing all my sheet rock again to correct the problem. Just to add, I waited a few weeks after mudding before I painted.


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## Paradigmzz

Monsterinmywalls said:


> *The monster in your walls eating up your mud is mold.* I am having the same problem. It has been three months since I painted and every day my seems are worse. The mud company rep came by and helped me to appreciate that the mud has a shelf life of six months. Even though there was no visible signs of mold there was a *strong odor* in the mud of two of the seven buckets. The buckets were without dates so evidently the inventory was not rotated. When you add mold to your Google search you will see that others that have had the problem. I plan on replacing all my sheet rock again to correct the problem. Just to add, I waited a few weeks after mudding before I painted.


Sounds like the craziest thing i have heard in a while.


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## kdpaint

Wow. Anybody google this yet? I'm too lazy.


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## mudbone

kdpaint said:


> Wow. Anybody google this yet? I'm too lazy.


 No!But I've giggled it.


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## Lazerline

Sounds to me like they had some real ugly seams they were trying to cover up with too much joint compound. That stuff is horrible for filling voids.


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## loser

Thank u to everyone who posted their opinions on this question! My boss is right now having the same problem. I totally agree that it has nothing to do with how the paint was applied or that it was not backrolled. I have done both and after a sanding and two finish coats with a roller, i c no difference in the end result of the two rooms! I will now copy this page and arm my boss with it. P.s. We r being blamed for all the nail pops on the accent wall that has a window at the end of it on the adjoining wall. Only happened on the accent walls. Other walls r fine. Lol paint is much lighter than accent walls. I agree that they did'nt snug drwall to the metal studs and drying. Job was started early march. Thanks again, will post when all is settled.


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## bsage

*what?*

No, no and no. Tell him if he made 3 passes instead of 2 he wouldn't have that problem. That is all finisher. paint will not affect joints.


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## Amish Elecvtrician

The folks who run this site also have a drywalll site ... why not go there for the 'experts' advice?

Drywall 'mud' comes in a variety of materials, and some shrink more than others. That's why tape is used - it keeps the mud from cracking as it dries.

If the mud was cracking, it was probably mixed too 'wet,' put on too thick, coats added before the previous coat had dried, and they'd tried to 'force it to dry' faster.

Exact causes depend, in part, on the type of mud used.

In any event, the worst things paint can do is add moisture to the mud, and seal it from the air. The effect of this will be to soften the mud and slow the cure - that is, reduce his cracking issues.


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## Ultimate

I have come to the conclusion that the majority of GC's have no business constructing an architectural anything.


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## Custom Brush Co.

These dry wallers know nothing of paint! Drywall always looks "good" till you prime it, and shows all imperfections you may have. Shrinking joints with paint? You've got to be f****** kidding me!

Tell them I personally think they are desperate for a blame.


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## Deckers

*Premium example of a drywaller blaming paint men.*

Now you have to get glazing compound out to fix his blunders? It is likely the drywallers fault, but that's why we make the big bucks eh?:whistling2:

You cannot paint in less than 1 week generally by most high humidity regions, regardless of exterior dryness of the mud. They likely had to pile it on deep to cover their corner flashing. So you wait the week with the temp around 70 degrees or so and still you have humping up of paper and settling of mud after the paint dries?

This is common when the drywaller uses nailers instead of screw also. But to be fair, turn the heat up around 80-90 degrees the day before you start and watch the humidity collect on the windows from all that mud that they thought was ready to go. COOK IT OUT. Especially textures.

I do the whole shebang from wall construction to paint, so I am the only guy that's to blame when something goes wrong. I've had entire sections of paint come off ceilings in giant sheets. Turns out, ceiling in Kitchens need scubbed totally spotless clean before painting because of fry grease soaking into the clean looking latex ceiling paint! :bangin:


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