# ScuffX vs Command



## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

I have a client wanting her cabinets done in the colour BM "Onyx", which is a black. I just primed with the FS 043 deep base tinted to black. I still can't get my hands on any Italian grade urethanes, so was thinking either command or scuffx. Thoughts?


----------



## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

I would use Scuff-X. I've tried Command twice (dark colors) and for some reason seemed to get a gritty finish both times, even after straining. The owner of one of my Benjamin Moore stores said that he's really heard mixed results on it, some guys love it while others have had similar issues to mine.

Having said that, I believe it is a quicker curing product than Scuff-X, so if you can get it to lay out smooth that might be the ticket for a dark color. I just couldn't get it to work for me


----------



## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Breakthrough comes in a factory black, I'm not sure if onyx black is a true black or not but if it were me I'd try steering them in that direction. I've done several sets with it without an issue. You can spray and hang the doors the following day without thinking twice about it which is another bonus.


----------



## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Breakthrough comes in a factory black, I'm not sure if onyx black is a true black or not but if it were me I'd try steering them in that direction. I've done several sets with it without an issue. You can spray and hang the doors the following day without thinking twice about it which is another bonus.


Yep, Command also comes in factory black and was trying to steer her that route but she was set on the Onyx.  I'm not opposed to Breakthrough, but have good relationship with BM and am convinced that Command is pretty much the same thing. 1 part urethane. Quick blocking. Black has to be the toughest colour to work with. So messy! Quite stressful.


----------



## monarchski (Jun 21, 2019)

finishesbykevyn said:


> I have a client wanting her cabinets done in the colour BM "Onyx", which is a black. I just primed with the FS 043 deep base tinted to black. I still can't get my hands on any Italian grade urethanes, so was thinking either command or scuffx. Thoughts?


I've had good luck with both products as well as the Centurion acrylic urethane but for a kitchen or areas you might have to deal with water/moisture, I'd lean towards Scuffx. You can get some dry spray in dark colors with the Scuffx so I add some extender and it helps a lot.


----------



## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

monarchski said:


> I've had good luck with both products as well as the Centurion acrylic urethane but for a kitchen or areas you might have to deal with water/moisture, I'd lean towards Scuffx. You can get some dry spray in dark colors with the Scuffx so I add some extender and it helps a lot.


Oh my, it's a toss up. I really do like the way ScuffX sprays and lays out, but have yet to use it on a whole kitchen, especially in black! BM still doesn't say whether they warrant it for kitchens or not..


----------



## monarchski (Jun 21, 2019)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Oh my, it's a toss up. I really do like the way ScuffX sprays and lays out, but have yet to use it on a whole kitchen, especially in black! BM still doesn't say whether they warrant it for kitchens or not..


BM likes to stick products in certain segments and then are surprised when it's used in others. Command is industrial/maintenance facilities, but they sell more of it for Res Repaints. Scuffx is for hotels and hospitals, but they sell more of it for Res repaint doors, trim and cabinets. I had a homeowner look up Scuffx when I told her that's what I wanted to use on her cabinets and she called me back after seeing the skateboarder video and said "that's an odd way to advertise a cabinet paint but it must be tough!"


----------



## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Ya for sure eh. Which one has less sheen?!


----------



## monarchski (Jun 21, 2019)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Ya for sure eh. Which one has less sheen?!


The Command is a lower sheen in the satin compared to Scuffx. In dark colors, you can get some really small fisheyes/ divots on your 2nd coat but I started doing a light sand with like 320 and it stopped it. I started adding about a half inch of water in the gallons and it helped also.


----------



## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

I've used command twice both in mid tones and I had small fish eyes as well. BTW I hate fisheyes!


----------



## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Dang. So no fisheyes with the breakthrough? Sprayed first coat Command today. Will assess outcome tomorrow!


Rbriggs82 said:


> I've used command twice both in mid tones and I had small fish eyes as well. BTW I hate fisheyes!


----------



## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Dang. So no fisheyes with the breakthrough? Sprayed first coat Command today. Will assess outcome tomorrow!


Nope, not yet anyway.


----------



## monarchski (Jun 21, 2019)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Dang. So no fisheyes with the breakthrough? Sprayed first coat Command today. Will assess outcome tomorrow!


I would only get them on my 2nd coat and they were extremely small and showed up more in darker colors. Once I started scuff sanding after my first coat it stopped.


----------



## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

monarchski said:


> I would only get them on my 2nd coat and they were extremely small and showed up more in darker colors. Once I started scuff sanding after my first coat it stopped.


I can see that. I'm a firm believer in intercoat sanding. First coat laid out beautiful over a coat of 043. Sanded and sprayed a 2nd coat yesterday. Fingers crossed this morning when I go check on my work. The hang time is not so great on the Command either. Was having to stop and get the fan blowing on sections in fear of sagging. Update on this soon.


----------



## Respec (Sep 13, 2015)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Oh my, it's a toss up. I really do like the way ScuffX sprays and lays out, but have yet to use it on a whole kitchen, especially in black! BM still doesn't say whether they warrant it for kitchens or not..


The TDS says Command is a suitable cabinet finish. The TDS for Scuff-X does not. I know a lot of guys use it, but my rep says it doesn't have the resistance to oils that Command does or Breakthrough V50, V52. That being said, I feel Command didn't feel as smooth as I like. Next time I spray it, I'm going to use very fine filters.


----------



## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Thanks guys. So an update on this.. I did go with the Command, and am glad I did. Just for the blocking/return to service aspects alone. Can literally stack black doors 24 hrs later. Candy shell hard. I also really like the satin sheen. It's definitely less shiny than the ScuffX or Advance.
Cons would be the hang time on verticals and miscellaneous fish eyes. Hard to pick up on with the lower sheen but still stressed me out. In the end I was happy and it looked and felt really nice! Colour is BM Onyx.


----------



## monarchski (Jun 21, 2019)

Respec said:


> The TDS says Command is a suitable cabinet finish. The TDS for Scuff-X does not. I know a lot of guys use it, but my rep says it doesn't have the resistance to oils that Command does or Breakthrough V50, V52. That being said, I feel Command didn't feel as smooth as I like. Next time I spray it, I'm going to use very fine filters.


BM is pretty set in their ways about how they classify and market their products to try and fit into a niche. But Scuffx is like Pro Classic waterborne on crack and has a very unique feel to it that I love.


----------



## cbinc (Mar 16, 2015)

glad it worked out. these days I just try to sell what I have in stock.


----------



## Don Painting Services (4 mo ago)

Cabinets finish looks impressively nice.

Tho her kitchen looks so "dark/sad" now, but maybe she's a Goth, lol
I liked the warmth of her cabinets before, (as seen in the last picture), but it's great that she decided to change it, painters need to be busy lol.
Or is that just the light that adds the warm brownish overtone to her newly painted black-Goth cabinets?
Let's hope that she will get tired of it next year, and decides to change it again.
I hate when people allow their cats to walk on the kitchen counter tops, especially just after they left their litter boxes.
Witnessed that few times, and almost made me vomit.


----------



## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Thanks guys. So an update on this.. I did go with the Command, and am glad I did. Just for the blocking/return to service aspects alone. Can literally stack black doors 24 hrs later. Candy shell hard. I also really like the satin sheen. It's definitely less shiny than the ScuffX or Advance.
> Cons would be the hang time on verticals and miscellaneous fish eyes. Hard to pick up on with the lower sheen but still stressed me out. In the end I was happy and it looked and felt really nice! Colour is BM Onyx.


what did you spray with?


----------



## Don Painting Services (4 mo ago)

Don Painting Services said:


> Or is that just the light that adds the warm brownish overtone to her newly painted black-Goth cabinets?


*SELF EDIT:*
Of course it is not.
I just looked at all the photos again, and photo #6 shows cabinet boxes getting ready to be painted.
So that was the original warm brownish color of her cabinets.
OK, got it.


----------



## Don Painting Services (4 mo ago)

cbinc said:


> these days I just try to sell what I have in stock.


Lol,
I hope you don't sell Behr or SW Super Paint.


----------



## Don Painting Services (4 mo ago)

What was going on with the island countertop, (looking at picture #6 and #8 and the last picture #10), were you changing something with the cabinet structure base of it.


----------



## Don Painting Services (4 mo ago)

Lol, she might be asking you to paint her stove and fridge Goth-black next.
They stick out like sore thumbs now against the black cabinets.
Or maybe appliance man will make money next. 
Also replacing the gray/white cat with a black cat would make those cabinets to look complete.


----------



## Don Painting Services (4 mo ago)

So did you removed the backsplash tiles too, and re-tiled the wall? Or just did the cabinet painting?
I'm not a huge fan of those narrow glass back splashes (I guess depends on their color, some of them get too busy for my taste), but I think 
that the old backsplash might look quite nice/interesting with the Goth-black cabinets and the counter-top.
Right now that backsplash wall looks very naked, very lame cold and boring, with those striking white almost like metro style tiles, 
and the color of the counter top it clashes with them big time. 
Wall paint color makes no sense either, it has absolutely no logical relation to the counter top, at least looking at picture #1 where the wall color 
looks like is some green olive. Or maybe that's just the light.


----------



## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> what did you spray with?


Graco 490. 308 fflp. I think a AAA system would have been a better option for the boxes but it worked out..The thing I like about airless is No dry spray.


----------



## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Don Painting Services said:


> So did you removed the backsplash tiles too, and re-tiled the wall? Or just did the cabinet painting?
> I'm not a huge fan of those narrow glass back splashes (I guess depends on their color, some of them get too busy for my taste), but I think
> that the old backsplash might look quite nice/interesting with the Goth-black cabinets and the counter-top.
> Right now that backsplash wall looks very naked, very lame cold and boring, with those striking white almost like metro style tiles,
> ...


 Agreed. Haha. Appliances have to go. We ripped out the back and installed new drywall. Backsplash coming soon. Gawd awful yellow counters will be replaced with granite. The 2 things I don't do are counters and backsplashes, but am considering it, as it would make us a 1 stop shop and would be in control of the project as a whole. That being said, counters and backsplash are always the last things to go on..


----------



## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Don Painting Services said:


> What was going on with the island countertop, (looking at picture #6 and #8 and the last picture #10), were you changing something with the cabinet structure base of it.


Good catch. Yes, we also cut down the island to a level surface to prepare for new slab of granite..


----------



## monarchski (Jun 21, 2019)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Thanks guys. So an update on this.. I did go with the Command, and am glad I did. Just for the blocking/return to service aspects alone. Can literally stack black doors 24 hrs later. Candy shell hard. I also really like the satin sheen. It's definitely less shiny than the ScuffX or Advance.
> Cons would be the hang time on verticals and miscellaneous fish eyes. Hard to pick up on with the lower sheen but still stressed me out. In the end I was happy and it looked and felt really nice! Colour is BM Onyx.


Those turned out nice! What tip did you use?


----------



## Don Painting Services (4 mo ago)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> what did you spray with?


He posted this, 


finishesbykevyn said:


> the FS 043


But I'm not sure if that is the tip size/orifice that he used, or a tire air pressure in his van.


----------



## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Don Painting Services said:


> He posted this,
> 
> But I'm not sure if that is the tip size/orifice that he used, or a tire air pressure in his van.











ScuffX vs Command


Or is that just the light that adds the warm brownish overtone to her newly painted black-Goth cabinets? SELF EDIT: Of course it is not. I just looked at all the photos again, and photo #6 shows cabinet boxes getting ready to be painted. So that was the original warm brownish color of her...




www.painttalk.com


----------



## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Thanks guys. So an update on this.. I did go with the Command, and am glad I did. Just for the blocking/return to service aspects alone. Can literally stack black doors 24 hrs later. Candy shell hard. I also really like the satin sheen. It's definitely less shiny than the ScuffX or Advance.
> Cons would be the hang time on verticals and miscellaneous fish eyes. Hard to pick up on with the lower sheen but still stressed me out. In the end I was happy and it looked and felt really nice! Colour is BM Onyx.


Great looking work Kevyn. Almost makes me want to give command another try. I did an island in Onyx with scuff-x last summer and the blocking was not good, even several days later.


----------



## Don Painting Services (4 mo ago)

Command is a beast.
I'm not sure why BM is even continuing ScuffX.
What's the point.


----------



## Don Painting Services (4 mo ago)

finishesbykevyn said:


> The 2 things I don't do are counters and backsplashes, but am considering it, as it would make us a 1 stop shop and would be in control of the project as a whole.


If you have the balls, and crew members to learn the tricks of that trade aspects, you will reap very nice financial benefits of that expansion.
Looks like you're already comfy outside of just the painting trade, expand by all means, of course knowing when you will need to call on experts to perform the installations,
I know that you know this, but make sure that you have a very good relationship with guys who do that on a everyday basis,
so you can call them to troubleshoot in case you need their expertise.
Otherwise is a piece of cake, lol


----------



## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Tip size:308 and 208 fflp.
FS 043: BM Freshstart Latex Primer.


----------



## monarchski (Jun 21, 2019)

Don Painting Services said:


> Command is a beast.
> I'm not sure why BM is even continuing ScuffX.
> What's the point.


Because they sell a lot of it? And neither product was designed or promoted as a trim paint.


----------



## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

ScuffX is great for which it was Intended and otherwise. Commercial walls, front porches, Closets. Command is also great as it was intended. Industrial purposes, front doors, handrails and apparently cabinets! ScuffX definitely sprays way easier than Command.


----------



## Don Painting Services (4 mo ago)

monarchski said:


> Because they sell a lot of it? And neither product was designed or promoted as a trim paint.


Yes, it's interesting how things rolled.
Both products have great reviews from pro painters, yet BM is timid at boosting big time about them.


----------



## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

monarchski said:


> Because they sell a lot of it? And neither product was designed or promoted as a trim paint.


That’s an Occam’s razor explanation right there and I salute your for it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

finishesbykevyn said:


> I have a client wanting her cabinets done in the colour BM "Onyx", which is a black. I just primed with the FS 043 deep base tinted to black. I still can't get my hands on any Italian grade urethanes, so was thinking either command or scuffx. Thoughts?


I'd go Ben Moore Advance if you can't get any 2k polyurethane.
At least it has some alkyd properties which will be more durable than a urethane.


----------



## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Late to the party Zoomer. Already sprayed with Command. Very impressive early blocking properties was the seller on this one. Especially with such a dark colour. I do like Advance but not in the deep base tones.


----------

