# Removing Wallpaper



## precisionpaintingcon

So how does one go about giving an estimate on wall paper removal. Per Hour? Per Sq. Ft? I know there are many variables that come into play such as what type of wall (plaster/drywall). What type of wallpaper is being removed. Just curious to how it is estimated and what the average estimated price of wall paper removal is. Thanks in advance!


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## Epoxy Pro

Hourly. Some times we loose out and the paper comes off very easy, others it's a freaking nightmare.


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## chrisn

For those not in the know, T&M only


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## Lambrecht

I give a rough estimate of 30sq ft per hour. However I still bill it as time and material.


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## Underdog

I do it as a courtesy...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZcEOh6hRUQ


:thumbup:


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## slinger58

Underdog said:


> I do it as a courtesy...
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZcEOh6hRUQ
> 
> 
> :thumbup:


Nobody likes a smart-a$$, UD. :no:







Well......OK................Yeah................here at PT we do. :yes::thumbup:


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## daArch

Underdog said:


> I do it as a courtesy...
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZcEOh6hRUQ
> 
> 
> :thumbup:


Yah yah yah, now wash the freaking paste off the wall


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## daArch

precisionpaintingcon said:


> So how does one go about giving an estimate on wall paper removal. Per Hour? Per Sq. Ft? I know there are many variables that come into play such as what type of wall (plaster/drywall). What type of wallpaper is being removed. Just curious to how it is estimated and what the average estimated price of wall paper removal is. Thanks in advance!


as you state, too many variables to give exact guides on how to estimate.

That's why I would always test an unobtrusive area.

Only got burned once, on my own home after I retired :whistling2:


I would say over the years the average was 1 sf per minute.

That's from walking in the door to walking out with room stripped, walls washed of all paste, and floor cleaned and vacuumed.


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## chrisn

Underdog said:


> I do it as a courtesy...
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZcEOh6hRUQ
> 
> 
> :thumbup:


That's how it's SUPPOSED to go

Which actually happens approximately once in a lifetime


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## precisionpaintingcon

So what is an "average hourly rate" for wall paper removal and materials. I have bid several jobs removing wall paper but have only recieved a few. (Not that I am complaining) but I am just curious to if I am over bidding wall paper removal.... or are their people out there doing it next to nothing?


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## Wildbill7145

precisionpaintingcon said:


> So what is an "average hourly rate" for wall paper removal and materials. I have bid several jobs removing wall paper but have only recieved a few. (Not that I am complaining) but I am just curious to if I am over bidding wall paper removal.... or are their people out there doing it next to nothing?


I'd never give a quote on removing wallpaper, ever.

I've done one room in 15 minutes, then it takes 8hrs in the bedroom right next door.

I also attempted to peel around 10 layers from a building downtown that's something like 150yrs old. It took me 8hrs to get a 4X8 section of wall done. I used every scraper, chemical at my disposal. The contractor who hired me eventually saw what was happening and saw the blood all over my hands. He just told me to prime it, skim coat it.


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## chrisn

Wildbill7145 said:


> I'd never give a quote on removing wallpaper, ever.
> 
> I've done one room in 15 minutes, then it takes 8hrs in the bedroom right next door.
> 
> I also attempted to peel around 10 layers from a building downtown that's something like 150yrs old. It took me 8hrs to get a 4X8 section of wall done. I used every scraper, chemical at my disposal. The contractor who hired me eventually saw what was happening and saw the blood all over my hands. He just told me to prime it, skim coat it.[/QUOTE]
> 
> There are times when that is all you can do.
> 
> More times than there should be for sure.


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## chrisn

Applying a wall covering primer, a simple step, would avoid such nonsense.


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## daArch

precisionpaintingcon said:


> So what is an "average hourly rate" for wall paper removal and materials. I have bid several jobs removing wall paper but have only recieved a few. (Not that I am complaining) but I am just curious to if I am over bidding wall paper removal.... or are their people out there doing it next to nothing?


Same as your normal hourly rate. No reason for it to be different.


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## mzekich

Our company Safe and Simple Wallpaper Removal has specialized in wallpaper removal only since 1990. Over the years we have learned that pricing T&M is good for the occasional removal but to earn the most profit we price on a per room basis. You may loose some $ on one room but other rooms make up for it. A rule of thumb that we use (LA market) is to budget (high) at $1.00 per sq.ft. This is for a turn key job, (move furniture, drapes, protection, remove paper, backing, adhesive, reset furniture, etc.). Vacant is easier, plaster is easier. High work over 10' add 25%.
I don't like T&M. Why? Because if you bill at $30 per hour the most you will ever make in one year is $62,400. ($30 x 8hrs x 5day x 52weeks) If you have experience removing wallpaper your effientcy will improve. If we get a $300 room done in 4 hours we keep the profit. Why give it away. Sure we lose on rare occasions, but long term per room pricing is best. 
You can sharpen your pencil if you test the removal with the customer and at the same time determine who pays for drapes, furniture moving. etc. It has been our experience that prep & clean up take about 30 - 40% of a typical job. That is a lot potential to get more profitable if you understand where I am coming from.
In reality (if you apply the above method) (for example) you can tell the customer that the wallpaper removal will be about $225 + $75 to move furniture, protect, reset, etc. Our experience has proven that most customers can understand a fair price to move furniture, etc. buy do not have a clue on what removal should cost. When you appear fair on a number that they can relate to, then the removal pricing is accepted carte blanche.
If you would like to discuss in more detail email me direct [email protected]
Mike
Owner
Safe and Simple Wallpaper Removal


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## daArch

mzekich said:


> Our company Safe and Simple Wallpaper Removal has specialized in wallpaper removal only since 1990. Over the years we have learned that pricing T&M is good for the occasional removal but to earn the most profit we price on a per room basis. You may loose some $ on one room but other rooms make up for it. A rule of thumb that we use (LA market) is to budget (high) at $1.00 per sq.ft. This is for a turn key job, (move furniture, drapes, protection, remove paper, backing, adhesive, reset furniture, etc.). Vacant is easier, plaster is easier. High work over 10' add 25%.
> I don't like T&M. Why? Because if you bill at $30 per hour the most you will ever make in one year is $62,400. ($30 x 8hrs x 5day x 52weeks) If you have experience removing wallpaper your effientcy will improve. If we get a $300 room done in 4 hours we keep the profit. Why give it away. Sure we lose on rare occasions, but long term per room pricing is best.
> You can sharpen your pencil if you test the removal with the customer and at the same time determine who pays for drapes, furniture moving. etc. It has been our experience that prep & clean up take about 30 - 40% of a typical job. That is a lot potential to get more profitable if you understand where I am coming from.
> In reality (if you apply the above method) (for example) you can tell the customer that the wallpaper removal will be about $225 + $75 to move furniture, protect, reset, etc. Our experience has proven that most customers can understand a fair price to move furniture, etc. buy do not have a clue on what removal should cost. When you appear fair on a number that they can relate to, then the removal pricing is accepted carte blanche.
> If you would like to discuss in more detail email me direct [email protected]
> Mike
> Owner
> Safe and Simple Wallpaper Removal


Hey Mike, good to read you.
Welcome to this nut house, my friend :notworthy:

BOY, I'm, sure glad a REAL professional paper stripper has chimed in. They were actually starting to believe the crap I've been spewing :whistling2:


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## Wildbill7145

daArch said:


> BOY, I'm, sure glad a REAL professional paper stripper has chimed in.


I don't often question why people would get specifically into a certain trade, but wallpaper removal? That kind of sounds like my own personal hell. Every single day? Good on those who do it. You have my respect.

Then again, I suppose some would say the same thing about painting.


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## chrisn

Wildbill7145 said:


> I don't often question why people would get specifically into a certain trade, but wallpaper removal? That kind of sounds like my own personal hell. Every single day? Good on those who do it. You have my respect.
> 
> Then again, I suppose some would say the same thing about painting.


He is the big cheese, he does not do it personally( I don't think):blink:


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## Underdog

chrisn said:


> He is the big cheese, he does not do it personally( I don't think):blink:


 Be interesting to see if he makes a second post.


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## slinger58

Underdog said:


> Be interesting to see if he makes a second post.


I'm betting he won't.


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## I paint paint

Well, if he is the head honcho, shouldn't he have some underling spamming on his behalf?

I'm operating under the assumption he personally likes PT, enjoys the content here, and all of it happens to line up with his business interests.

And if we only get one helpful post; that's OK too.


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## chrisn

slinger58 said:


> I'm betting he won't.


 me too


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## chrisn

I paint paint said:


> Well, if he is the head honcho, shouldn't he have some underling spamming on his behalf?
> 
> I'm operating under the assumption he personally likes PT, enjoys the content here, and all of it happens to line up with his business interests.
> 
> And if we only get one helpful post; that's OK too.


I saw no spamming here.
I would highly doubt that


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## CApainter

Mike provided some good information. His take on pricing is exactly what i had invisioned if I were to run a painting company. A base price with a premium for things beyond the base price parameters, like ceiling height. I also liked his take on how fixed estimates allow for profitability even when a particular job may not perform well. 

And what a great insight into consumer behavior by sharing the tip of offering a price on something the homer can relate to and can recognize as a fair market price. Like the furniture moving example he gave. See! Those guys from LA are smart. No wonder they're all rich down there.


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## Underdog

I agree, it was well thought out.


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## SemiproJohn

CApainter said:


> Mike provided some good information. His take on pricing is exactly what i had invisioned if I were to run a painting company. A base price with a premium for things beyond the base price parameters, like ceiling height. I also liked his take on how fixed estimates allow for profitability even when a particular job may not perform well.
> 
> *And what a great insight into consumer behavior by sharing the tip of offering a price on something the homer can relate to and can recognize as a fair market price*. Like the furniture moving example he gave. See! Those guys from LA are smart. No wonder they're all rich down there.


It sounds like an effective way to introduce confirmation bias into the equation! A comfortable, reasonable price on something to which the customer can relate (moving furniture) confirms for them their expectations regarding the price on that which they really have no idea (the removal of wallpaper). :whistling2:


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## salmangeri

Wildbill7145 said:


> I don't often question why people would get specifically into a certain trade, but wallpaper removal? That kind of sounds like my own personal hell. Every single day? Good on those who do it. You have my respect.
> 
> Then again, I suppose some would say the same thing about painting.


Wildbill,

I can understand why some contractors would want to steer clear of 
stripping wallpaper. Infact I know a contractor who won't touch those types of jobs and throws me a fair amount of that work. For us it works well as for the most part we get to do the painting as well. 

As far as bidding those jobs I used to strip a small test spot to see how it comes off. I have since stopped that and bid each job on the high side and
have only been burnt once. I also put a clause in the contract that states the bid "assumes the wallpaper will strip with a minimal amount of damage to the wall surfaces......


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## Wildbill7145

salmangeri said:


> Wildbill,
> 
> I can understand why some contractors would want to steer clear of
> stripping wallpaper. Infact I know a contractor who won't touch those types of jobs and throws me a fair amount of that work. For us it works well as for the most part we get to do the painting as well.
> 
> As far as bidding those jobs I used to strip a small test spot to see how it comes off. I have since stopped that and bid each job on the high side and
> have only been burnt once. I also put a clause in the contract that states the bid "assumes the wallpaper will strip with a minimal amount of damage to the wall surfaces......


I've just found too many variables in removing it. One spot on a wall can come off easy, five minutes later you're finding a different area being painful. One room takes 15 minutes to remove the entire outer layer, next room takes several hours.


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## daArch

I wish there were some way that theses abnormally difficult strips could be experienced hands on by all via the internet. But I know that is virtually impossible.

With testing, some tried and true techniques, and a couple of days experience, all wall wallpaper comes off within a reasonable range of times - for me. Sure, I've been burned a few times, but as Mike implies, the good jobs pay for the bad ones many times over. 

But I still would love to experience these bad ones people keep talking about to see if it's a faulty stripping technique or a regional hackery of hanging.


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## Wildbill7145

daArch said:


> But I still would love to experience these bad ones people keep talking about to see if it's a faulty stripping technique or a regional hackery of hanging.


Not necessarily regional hackery. Possibly varying generations of hackery. Try peeling multiple (many) layers, that have been applied since the building was built 150 years ago. Get down to the last layer that was applied to raw plaster. A chisel and cutting torch won't take it off.


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## chrisn

Wildbill7145 said:


> Not necessarily regional hackery. Possibly varying generations of hackery. Try peeling multiple (many) layers, that have been applied since the building was built 150 years ago. Get down to the last layer that was applied to raw plaster. A chisel and cutting torch won't take it off.


What do you mean by that? I have found that any paper will come off plaster fairly easily. Not sure if by raw , you mean uncured or what. Maybe up there it is different?


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## Wildbill7145

chrisn said:


> What do you mean by that? I have found that any paper will come off plaster fairly easily. Not sure if by raw , you mean uncured or what. Maybe up there it is different?


It appeared to be the first stuff that went on the plaster 150 yrs ago. I don't know what else to say. It stuck incredibly well. I honestly couldn't get it off and I tried every tool and chemical in my arsenal, and I have lots.

I don't surrender often to this kind of thing.


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## daArch

Wildbill7145 said:


> Not necessarily regional hackery. Possibly varying generations of hackery. Try peeling multiple (many) layers, that have been applied since the building was built 150 years ago. Get down to the last layer that was applied to raw plaster. A chisel and cutting torch won't take it off.



This is why I would love to have first hand experience. It's not that I don't believe you, 'cause I do. I would just love to see what you're faced with to put into my knowledge bank.

First I am going to assume the paper is a pulp paper since that's all they had back then. The process of adhesion is the problem.

Home cooked wheat paste was the normal adhesive, but other starches could have been used OR something added.

One of the sizings they used was GLUE - animal glue to seal the plaster. Some enterprising inventive paperhanger could have mixed glue with the paste OR could have used straight animal glue to hang the paper.

I can only conjecture. And that is why I would love to see it first hand. I have a bit of knowledge of what was used (NO, not from being there then ) and would love to see if I could come up with an accurate pathology.


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## chrisn

daArch said:


> This is why I would love to have first hand experience. It's not that I don't believe you, 'cause I do. I would just love to see what you're faced with to put into my knowledge bank.
> 
> First I am going to assume the paper is a pulp paper since that's all they had back then. The process of adhesion is the problem.
> 
> Home cooked wheat paste was the normal adhesive, but other starches could have been used OR something added.
> 
> One of the sizings they used was GLUE - animal glue to seal the plaster. Some enterprising inventive paperhanger could have mixed glue with the paste OR could have used straight animal glue to hang the paper.
> 
> I can only conjecture. And that is why I would love to see it first hand. I have a bit of knowledge of what was used (NO, not from being there then ) and would love to see if I could come up with an accurate pathology.


That would be my guess, THAT would be a real bitch to remove, although MZ's old remover that he discontinued would have worked, I bet.


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## daArch

chrisn said:


> That would be my guess, THAT would be a real bitch to remove, although MZ's old remover that he discontinued would have worked, I bet.


actually the border adhesive remover didn't work all that well. Mike told me that one might as well use fabric softener. 

And remember, border adhesive is a synthetic polymer where as animal glue is animal protein based.


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## Seth The Painter

I use hot water and dif. Let it soak in around 10 minutes.


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## daArch

Seth The Painter said:


> I use hot water and dif. Let it soak in around 10 minutes.


For GLUE, or paste ?


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## chrisn

daArch said:


> For GLUE, or paste ?


there is just a LITTLE difference:thumbsup:


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## chrisn

daArch said:


> actually the border adhesive remover didn't work all that well. Mike told me that one might as well use fabric softener.
> 
> And remember, border adhesive is a synthetic polymer where as animal glue is animal protein based.


I thought it was something else but, hey, the memory is not what it once was


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## Seth The Painter

I know it dif works for glue. Good luck with paste I don't think I've ever used anything else but dif never had any issues.


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## daArch

Seth The Painter said:


> I know it dif works for glue. Good luck with paste I don't think I've ever used anything else but dif never had any issues.


Seth,

By this your post, I am assuming you have glue and paste mixed up.

Paste is a starch based adhesive and what is used (most often) for wallpaper installations. The starches nowadays is mostly often derived from corn for 90% of the premixed pastes. Wheat is prolly the next most common and one of the oldest starches used. I think cellulose is the next most popular (and prolly the weakest) with potato becoming a new favorite for many. I've made a wicked strong paste from oatmeal. Most pastes are easily re-wet with water. Water is enhanced during stripping with many substances such as a surfactant, acid, or even a base. 

Glue, on the other hand is protein based or even polymer based. It is not easily rewet with what we use to strip wallpaper. Glue is not often used to install wallpaper, except for Border Adhesive or VOV (Vinyl over Vinyl)

Dif will not work on glue.

BTW, I hope, as per the label's instructions, that you wear a respirator when using dif. There are other strippers out there that are actually more effective than dif and are Safe and Simple. Well, excuse me, there is only ONE stripper that is Safe and Simple.


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## chrisn

daArch said:


> Seth,
> 
> By this your post, I am assuming you have glue and paste mixed up.
> 
> Paste is a starch based adhesive and what is used (most often) for wallpaper installations. The starches nowadays is mostly often derived from corn for 90% of the premixed pastes. Wheat is prolly the next most common and one of the oldest starches used. I think cellulose is the next most popular (and prolly the weakest) with potato becoming a new favorite for many. I've made a wicked strong paste from oatmeal. Most pastes are easily re-wet with water. Water is enhanced during stripping with many substances such as a surfactant, acid, or even a base.
> 
> Glue, on the other hand is protein based or even polymer based. It is not easily rewet with what we use to strip wallpaper. Glue is not often used to install wallpaper, except for Border Adhesive or VOV (Vinyl over Vinyl)
> 
> Dif will not work on glue.
> 
> BTW, I hope, as per the label's instructions, that you wear a respirator when using dif. There are other strippers out there that are actually more effective than dif and are Safe and Simple. Well, excuse me, there is only ONE stripper that is Safe and Simple.


why ,yes indeed:thumbsup:


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## soperfect paint

If you can do hourly then that will be fine.


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## Seth The Painter

daArch said:


> Seth,
> 
> By this your post, I am assuming you have glue and paste mixed up.
> 
> Paste is a starch based adhesive and what is used (most often) for wallpaper installations. The starches nowadays is mostly often derived from corn for 90% of the premixed pastes. Wheat is prolly the next most common and one of the oldest starches used. I think cellulose is the next most popular (and prolly the weakest) with potato becoming a new favorite for many. I've made a wicked strong paste from oatmeal. Most pastes are easily re-wet with water. Water is enhanced during stripping with many substances such as a surfactant, acid, or even a base.
> 
> Glue, on the other hand is protein based or even polymer based. It is not easily rewet with what we use to strip wallpaper. Glue is not often used to install wallpaper, except for Border Adhesive or VOV (Vinyl over Vinyl)
> 
> Dif will not work on glue.
> 
> BTW, I hope, as per the label's instructions, that you wear a respirator when using dif. There are other strippers out there that are actually more effective than dif and are Safe and Simple. Well, excuse me, there is only ONE stripper that is Safe and Simple.


OK thanks my fault I don't do a lot of wallpaper removal. When I do I used dif and it works fine. Thanks for letting me know.


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## daArch

soperfect paint said:


> If you can do hourly then that will be fine.


so few HO's are willing to give someone free reins to charge for work. Especially to someone they have never hired before. 

Most folks get more than one estimate. I have a feeling the normal tendency would be to hire the guy who gives a definite number than someone proposing T&M.

Not only does it allow them to plan accurately where their money is going, but the guy who gives a number would appear to be more experienced and know what he's doing.


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## daArch

Seth The Painter said:


> OK thanks my fault I don't do a lot of wallpaper removal. When I do I used dif and it works fine. Thanks for letting me know.


Glad I could help.

dif works, but as I said, the idea of needing a respirator turns me off, and customers don't like the smell. We deal with enough stinky/harmful substances as it is.


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## onthecoast

daArch said:


> Glad I could help.
> 
> dif works, but as I said, the idea of needing a respirator turns me off, and customers don't like the smell. We deal with enough stinky/harmful substances as it is.


Bill! It's been too long! How are you?


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## onthecoast

onthecoast said:


> Bill! It's been too long! How are you?


Bill, I literally just yelled "Bill Archibald retired?!" and my girl cracks up in the other room and goes "Who's that... the wall covering guy on google?"


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## daArch

onthecoast said:


> Bill, I literally just yelled "Bill Archibald retired?!" and my girl cracks up in the other room and goes "Who's that... the wall covering guy on google?"


FUNNY !!!

I'm doing great, thanks for asking. I shoulda retired before I ever started working :whistling2:

How you doing? Haven't seen you on here for a bit. 

BTW, only google still lists me on page one when searching for wallcovering installer Boston Ma. Every other search engine dropped me. Hopefully SOON I won't be that "wall covering guy on google". 

It's SOOO nice not needing to carry my cell 24/7/365 :thumbup:


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## onthecoast

daArch said:


> FUNNY !!!
> 
> I'm doing great, thanks for asking. I shoulda retired before I ever started working :whistling2:
> 
> How you doing? Haven't seen you on here for a bit.
> 
> BTW, only google still lists me on page one when searching for wallcovering installer Boston Ma. Every other search engine dropped me. Hopefully SOON I won't be that "wall covering guy on google".
> 
> It's SOOO nice not needing to carry my cell 24/7/365 :thumbup:


That must be awesome. My current gig I have to use my phone all day for tracking purposes for mileage and it sucks having the eye in the sky always on you. It rings sometimes too. I tend to ignore it.

What ever happened to NEPS? PM me if you can


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## papernpaste

I'm new to this forum and have about ten years experience in removal. I would like to add that, as one begins the removal process, they should remove everything that they possibly can while the walls are dry. If you can get the top (printed)layer of the paper-backed vinyl off by pulling it in pieces or sections, by all means do so. If you have layers of old paper-only wallpaper on old plaster, scraping as much off as possible, dry, makes for a much "cleaner" removal than soaking everything first. Butyl runners on the floors, rolled-up towels along the baseboards, constantly cleaning up your scraps so you're not tracking them up and down the ladder or away from the work-space are all important considerations.
I have used http://www.painttalk.com/members/mzekich-25617/
Safe-and-Simple for ten years and it is, without a doubt, the best removal product available- still- after ten years. I'm in DE and have no affiliation with him other than my repeat business for him and his product.
Also, the best time to address the residual paste removal is immediately after the wallcovering has been removed and while the paste and wall are still damp. It's not a pleasant but, a very necessary part of the removal process. 
Having said all of that, I'll agree with those that say that bidding a room requires taking a break-off blade knife with you and verifying how many layers of wallcovering you are going to be dealing with. I bid by the room, anticipating 200-225 square feet a day.
Once the walls are clean and dry, inspect and light sand and spackle as necessary and then apply Zinsser Gardz. It encapsulates any residual paste and seals it away for ever. Apply with a microfiber roller cover since it is thinner than water. Use a brush for cut-in that you can throw away.


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## daArch

P'n'P,

I agree with everything you say EXCEPT the steadfast rule to always remove as much as possible dry.

Mike and I have had discussions about that, and as much as I promote his "shaving" the paper off dry when it is appropriate, I still find that more often my 36 grit in the palm sander is better. Mike believes in sanding the walls at times, but has his guys do it w/50 grit. I wish I were still a guild member only to see him again at a convention and show him how my NEW method of using 20 grit works. :thumbup:

BTW, are you a present or past NGPP member and have had the pleasure of Mike's presence and generosity ? Truly one of the best ambassadors of this industry.


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## mudbone

cdpainting said:


> Hourly. Some times we loose out and the paper comes off very easy, others it's a freaking nightmare.


For real!:yes:


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## papernpaste

*Quoting stuff we aren't used to quoting- an aide*



precisionpaintingcon said:


> So what is an "average hourly rate" for wall paper removal and materials. I have bid several jobs removing wall paper but have only recieved a few. (Not that I am complaining) but I am just curious to if I am over bidding wall paper removal.... or are their people out there doing it next to nothing?


I found a site that will help you at least get a rough idea of what to charge on a whole host of applications. I'm not sure how accurate it is but, I nailed down a really nice job, last Spring, using a "somewhere-in the-middle" estimate from this site and got the job. Here it is http://homewyse.com/
Once you get there, click on "installations". Then, scroll down the page and look on the lower left for paint and wallpaper and drywall repair stuff. You can change the zip code to reflect your local area. When you fill in the blanks, it will spit out a low and a high figure. It's all fairly easy to use. You just have to play with the site for a while to get used to it. You'll see that it provides a way to estimate just about anything. I thought it was pretty cool.


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