# 1st Sprayer Advice & options



## Radius118 (Jun 23, 2020)

Hi!

Newbie here. Thanks for all of the informative posts. Been reading a lot.

Looking at getting my first sprayer. Since I don't have much experience with sprayers I have some questions and am asking for some advice.


Pros/cons of cart versus stand models? 

To me, it seems like the cart would be convenient for transporting the unit around, etc. Does the dip tube unscrew to make it easier to swap buckets?

On the other hand the stand model seems like it would be easier to swap buckets. Pull the dip tube, swap to the next bucket and continue. The downside being more difficult to move the machine around.

I am at about $1K budget wise so I am looking at some of the top "pro-sumer" model spray setups like the Graco Pro210ES. I also recognize the machine is just the beginning of the investment. The gun the machine comes with is likely to be a lower end model, plus there are tips to buy, etc.

Also, I have a buddy that is willing to sell me a very lightly used Titan Aircoat air assisted machine at my price point. The only bummer is it has a hopper instead of a suction hose but in my searching it looks like the suction hose kit is available. I have used this machine once before and it was a bit fiddly - occasionally hard to get it primed and even with thinned latex it seemed like you had to run it wide open to get decent coverage. Maybe I was doing something wrong but the diaphram pump in the machine just did not seem powerful enough.

Any advice for the spray newbie? :smile:


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Radius118 said:


> Hi!
> 
> Newbie here. Thanks for all of the informative posts. Been reading a lot.
> 
> ...


Don't bother with homeowner grade models. Graco 390 or Titan 440. Look for a used 395+ if you can find one. Usually they just need a $50 repack then spray like brand new.


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## Radius118 (Jun 23, 2020)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Don't bother with homeowner grade models. Graco 390 or Titan 440. Look for a used 395+ if you can find one. Usually they just need a $50 repack then spray like brand new.


Thanks for the advice.

I've been looking on Facebook marketplace, Craigslist, etc. Some stuff out there but not sure how to tell if I am buying a decent machine or a POS.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Radius118 said:


> Thanks for the advice.
> 
> I've been looking on Facebook marketplace, Craigslist, etc. Some stuff out there but not sure how to tell if I am buying a decent machine or a POS.



Run a gallon of water through it, see if it primes and will hold pressure. even a totally junked sprayer can generally be repaired for a fraction of the price of a new one as long as the motor runs


I know a guy who got a junked old graco 1000. It was toast and took a bunch of elbow grease and a couple hundred in parts but now he has a practically brand new 1gpm sprayer.


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## Radius118 (Jun 23, 2020)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Run a gallon of water through it, see if it primes and will hold pressure. even a totally junked sprayer can generally be repaired for a fraction of the price of a new one as long as the motor runs
> 
> 
> I know a guy who got a junked old graco 1000. It was toast and took a bunch of elbow grease and a couple hundred in parts but now he has a practically brand new 1gpm sprayer.


LOL! That's usually how I get my cars! :smile:

So far in my searches I have found quite a few 440s. Not so many 390s or 395s. But I have found a package deal that includes a Ultimate Super Nova 495 and a 440 for $450.00

Also found a Titan 840 for what seems like an ok price but the ad is pretty old. :sad:


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Radius118 said:


> LOL! That's usually how I get my cars! :smile:
> 
> So far in my searches I have found quite a few 440s. Not so many 390s or 395s. But I have found a package deal that includes a Ultimate Super Nova 495 and a 440 for $450.00
> 
> Also found a Titan 840 for what seems like an ok price but the ad is pretty old. :sad:



titan 440s are good pumps, parts are inexpensive too though I prefer graco.


On a titan same thing, see if it primes and hold pressure. take off the front cover plate and look for paint coming out from the packings. if there is a bunch of dried paint the upper packings are blown out and will need a repack and possibly a new piston rod.


check prime valve for leaking too while your at it


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## Radius118 (Jun 23, 2020)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> titan 440s are good pumps, parts are inexpensive too though I prefer graco.
> 
> 
> On a titan same thing, see if it primes and hold pressure. take off the front cover plate and look for paint coming out from the packings. if there is a bunch of dried paint the upper packings are blown out and will need a repack and possibly a new piston rod.
> ...


Thank you for the advice. Unfortunately I have not gotten any responses to the ads I have found for some different machines. I don't understand why you would advertise something and then not respond to inquiries. Sigh.

But I will keep looking to see what I find. I'd rather buy a good or decent used machine than pay the price for a new one if I can help it.


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

Radius118 said:


> Thanks for the advice.
> 
> I've been looking on Facebook marketplace, Craigslist, etc. Some stuff out there but not sure how to tell if I am buying a decent machine or a POS.



Best place to find a used airless is at a repair shop. Guys leave machines for repair then never pick them up. Most of the time the shop is just trying to recoup the cost of the parts.


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## Radius118 (Jun 23, 2020)

MikeCalifornia said:


> Best place to find a used airless is at a repair shop. Guys leave machines for repair then never pick them up. Most of the time the shop is just trying to recoup the cost of the parts.


Good advice, thank you.

I will have to look around to see who repairs these things and go from there.

At the moment I am trying to find a bigger machine than I need. You can drive a fast car slow, but you can't drive a slow car faster than it will go. :wink:


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## Radius118 (Jun 23, 2020)

Found a 550xc for $300. But I can't find any specifications for it. Anyone know how many GPM and max tip size? Also is it powerful enough to push through 100' of hose?


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Radius118 said:


> Found a 550xc for $300. But I can't find any specifications for it. Anyone know how many GPM and max tip size? Also is it powerful enough to push through 100' of hose?


Too old to be worth 300 maybe $100 a used modern 440 you can find for $300. As long as the pump has good packings can push 100ft hose and a 515.


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## Radius118 (Jun 23, 2020)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Too old to be worth 300 maybe $100 a used modern 440 you can find for $300. As long as the pump has good packings can push 100ft hose and a 515.


Ok. I am in the Seattle region and things tend to go for more money up here. Crusty 390s needing a rebuild are going for $200+ up here.

I have found an older Titan/Speedflo PowrTwin 3500 with electric motor. Specs state it's a 1.2GPM pump that can do 400-3300 psi. 

This machine is likely far more than I need, but the price seems attractive and gives me "room to grow"

I understand that XX amount of pressure is required for the material that is being sprayed. Is it possible to use a smaller tip and/or 1/4" hose to regulate the GPM? As a newbie I doubt I would be able to keep up with a machine spraying that much material. 

Thank you!


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Radius118 said:


> Ok. I am in the Seattle region and things tend to go for more money up here. Crusty 390s needing a rebuild are going for $200+ up here.
> 
> I have found an older Titan/Speedflo PowrTwin 3500 with electric motor. Specs state it's a 1.2GPM pump that can do 400-3300 psi.
> 
> ...



That 550xc has to be 20 years old. Personally I would avoid the big boy pumps, very heavy and parts are going to be expensive and the guys who use them rarely take care of them.


$200 for a 390 isn't a bad deal if you know how to repack them. As long as a the piston rod is in good shape a repack kit may cost only $75 or so. The other things to look for are leaking prime valves, worn piston rod, bad transducer etc.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

The 445 Titan is a good compact and easily transportable unit. Especially if you're not going to be spraying a lot. It is more than adequate to get the average painting job done.


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## Radius118 (Jun 23, 2020)

Thank you all for the suggestions. 

I am having a hard time finding anything decent out there at the moment. So far I think the Titan/Speedflo PowrTwin 3500 is my best option. The seller states he has the receipt for a fresh service and new packings. I have countered with him @ $900 which after buying a few tips is right at my budget. 

I do realize it's more machine than I need. But it does give me room to grow and do bigger jobs if the opportunity arises. 

Are there any good reasons why I shouldn't buy this machine?


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## jr.sr. painting (Dec 6, 2013)

Radius118 said:


> Ok. I am in the Seattle region and things tend to go for more money up here. Crusty 390s needing a rebuild are going for $200+ up here.
> 
> I have found an older Titan/Speedflo PowrTwin 3500 with electric motor. Specs state it's a 1.2GPM pump that can do 400-3300 psi.
> 
> ...



I hear the chop zone has some nice ones stole... I mean for sale.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Radius118 said:


> Thank you all for the suggestions.
> 
> I am having a hard time finding anything decent out there at the moment. So far I think the Titan/Speedflo PowrTwin 3500 is my best option. The seller states he has the receipt for a fresh service and new packings. I have countered with him @ $900 which after buying a few tips is right at my budget.
> 
> ...


The PowerTwin 3500 weighs 140 lbs. compared to the Titan 440 at 36 lbs.


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## Radius118 (Jun 23, 2020)

CApainter said:


> The PowerTwin 3500 weighs 140 lbs. compared to the Titan 440 at 36 lbs.


Good point. 

I am fortunate in that my truck has a lift gate. But I can see how that might be an issue in some circumstances.

Any other cons against the machine?


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Radius118 said:


> Good point.
> 
> I am fortunate in that my truck has a lift gate. But I can see how that might be an issue in some circumstances.
> 
> Any other cons against the machine?



repacking a titan 440 costs $50 and an hour of time vs hundreds and dealing with hydrualics.


Those hydrualic pumps are best used with a 55 gallon drum or you need a 3 man crew one person manning the pump, one spraying with a 1223 and one back rolling


They have their place but for the lone paint contractor I would look at a 440-640


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## Radius118 (Jun 23, 2020)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> repacking a titan 440 costs $50 and an hour of time vs hundreds and dealing with hydrualics.
> 
> 
> Those hydrualic pumps are best used with a 55 gallon drum or you need a 3 man crew one person manning the pump, one spraying with a 1223 and one back rolling
> ...


Ok, thanks for the advice.

I guess I will keep looking. Seems like any machine that appears to be decent is gone very quickly.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Observation:

Your decision making proces is analogous to a guy needing a sufficient means of transportation to haul a tool box and ladder for general painting purposes. That 2005 Toyota Tacoma would suffice, but the potential to grow may require that 1999 Ford F-350 Duely for only a thousand more. 

The question is:
1. What would fit your needs now? 
2. What is more reliable? 
3. What is more economically feasible?
4. What is your Strategic Plan to actually grow where a F-350 would be required?


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Radius118 said:


> Ok, thanks for the advice.
> 
> I guess I will keep looking. Seems like any machine that appears to be decent is gone very quickly.



Check some of the pawn shops that are known to carry equipment, or ask your supplier if they know anyone looking to sell.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

CApainter said:


> Observation:
> 
> Your decision making proces is analogous to a guy needing a sufficient means of transportation to haul a tool box and ladder for general painting purposes. That 2005 Toyota Tacoma would suffice, but the potential to grow may require that 1999 Ford F-350 Duely for only a thousand more.
> 
> ...


A 350 dually for a painter? What are you hauling - a load of lead ladders? :vs_whistle:


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Check some of the pawn shops that are known to carry equipment, or ask your supplier if they know anyone looking to sell.


Or, complete four brush and roll jobs and invest in the company by purchasing a new Titan 445.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

RH said:


> A 350 dually for a painter? What are you hauling - a load of lead ladders? :vs_whistle:


 I've seen it used in the industrial painting business. But even then, I prefer a 1 ton utility truck over a dually, which I drove for a number of years. 

Here's another analogy:

It's like say I'm a guy that likes to shoot the occasional squirrl while sipping a bourbon on the porch of my log cabin. A .22 cal. Ruger six shooter would more than suffice. But in preparation for the rare event a Moose or Polar Bear strolls across my front yard, I instead choose a .30-06 Remington model 700. It makes a mess out of the squirrls, but I'm prepared to move up to bigger game just in case.

It just doesn't seem to be part of a good Strategic Plan.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

CApainter said:


> I've seen it used in the industrial painting business. But even then, I prefer a 1 ton utility truck over a dually, which I drove for a number of years.
> 
> Here's another analogy:
> 
> ...



hydraulic pumps are more akin to hunting squirrels with a 50 caliber but yeah.


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## Radius118 (Jun 23, 2020)

CApainter said:


> Observation:
> 
> Your decision making proces is analogous to a guy needing a sufficient means of transportation to haul a tool box and ladder for general painting purposes. That 2005 Toyota Tacoma would suffice, but the potential to grow may require that 1999 Ford F-350 Duely for only a thousand more.
> 
> ...


Completely understand your analogy.

Yes, you are correct I really don't *need* the 3500. I have a waiting list of customers, some of which want me to do some bigger jobs - like a complete interior paint of a newly built 5000 sq ft shop.

If I have the 3500 it opens up the possibility of oing those jobs. I have a part time helper I am hoping to make full time with the additional work I can get with that machine.

One thing I have learned about buying used equipment. If you find a good deal, jump on it. You probably won't get the opportunity again. And if it really is a good deal, it can be sold at a later date if it doesn't earn it's keep. Usually at a profit.

That being said I am probably going to buy the 3500. But I am also going to keep my eyes peeled for a 440+ or 395+ machine. That will give me the best of both worlds. :smile:


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## Radius118 (Jun 23, 2020)

Next question.

Is a Graco Ultra 500 a decent machine? One of these popped up. Price seems a little high but maybe they are negotiable.

Also just found an Ultra Max II 490 PC that apparently has a leak by the pump. Packings? Probably worth a risk at $125! :smile:


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Radius118 said:


> Next question.
> 
> Is a Graco Ultra 500 a decent machine? One of these popped up. Price seems a little high but maybe they are negotiable.
> 
> Also just found an Ultra Max II 490 PC that apparently has a leak by the pump. Packings? Probably worth a risk at $125! :smile:


Graco 500 are good pumps, but older not modern design. In particular the sleeves wear out on them leading to poor seal against the packings.


a 490 for less than $500 is a great deal. Even if you just have to swap an entire new pump section only ~$300
https://www.portlandcompressor.com/store/graco-replacement-endurance-pump-lower-kit-for-390-595


Leaks out the top of the pump usually just means the upper packings need service, or the piston rod is hosed. Likely it just needs a good cleaning and a new packing kit. ~$80. I usually charge $50 to put in new packings, depends on how much dried paint I need to remove first.


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## Radius118 (Jun 23, 2020)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Graco 500 are good pumps, but older not modern design. In particular the sleeves wear out on them leading to poor seal against the packings.


Pics of my $80 treasure!

Unfortunately it turns out the machine was not a 490 but an older Ultra 500. But for $80 of course I picked it up.

It came with a hose but that's going in the garbage. The thing pumped water but leaked all over the place. There is a pic with a red rectangle in it. That's where it leaks. Probably pretty obvious for you guys.

Looks like there is supposed to be a drain valve of some type on the bottom of the vertical filter that is missing. Is there anything else obviously wrong with this thing that I don't see? 

So can I get away with a repack or do I have to replace the whole pump or sleeve or?

Also, what do you recommend for a decent but affordable gun for this machine? 

So far it looks like my purchase list for this machine is:
Parts to repair leak
Hose
Gun
Intake screen
Filter?


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

On the underside of the sprayer there is usually a model number and series number. Go to gracopartsbook.com and put in the model number and it will show you a detailed diagram for the pump section specific to that sprayer.


New filters and screen. Definitely needs a repack dried paint coming out the top packing isn't a good sign typically. Check connections, and threaded parts get sealed with PTFE tape. Eveything that moves should be clean, shiny and greased. 



Other parts to check:
transducer
prime valve
piston rod
this pump doesn't have a separate cylinder but you need to check the walls for damage, pressure cuts, cupping of the steel etc.



$80 is a good buy but be prepared to put a lot of hours cleaning dried paint out of that pump. I would disassemble and soak everything in lacquer thinner.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

I think my Dad handed down one of those to me in 1996.. Sold it again 2005.


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## Radius118 (Jun 23, 2020)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> On the underside of the sprayer there is usually a model number and series number. Go to gracopartsbook.com and put in the model number and it will show you a detailed diagram for the pump section specific to that sprayer.
> 
> 
> New filters and screen. Definitely needs a repack dried paint coming out the top packing isn't a good sign typically. Check connections, and threaded parts get sealed with PTFE tape. Eveything that moves should be clean, shiny and greased.
> ...


More very useful information, thank you.


I attached a picture of the plate I found. Is this the plate I am looking for? Can I go after this with some lacquer thinner without damaging it to get all the crusty paint off of it?

Also, how do you check the transducer? Someone needs to post a youtube video on how to overhaul these things.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Radius118 said:


> cocomonkeynuts said:
> 
> 
> > On the underside of the sprayer there is usually a model number and series number. Go to gracopartsbook.com and put in the model number and it will show you a detailed diagram for the pump section specific to that sprayer.
> ...


Scrub with blue sponge and hot soapy water. Transducer and prime valve you can't check until the pump is rebuilt and you test for pressure. Prime valve either works or it will leak when pressure is applied. Transducer controls pressure, suggest you attach a fluid pressure gauge suitable for 0-5000psi. This will also show you visually of there are leaks in the system

Attach the gauge as seen in this photo of a 1095 I rebuilt


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## Radius118 (Jun 23, 2020)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Scrub with blue sponge and hot soapy water. Transducer and prime valve you can't check until the pump is rebuilt and you test for pressure. Prime valve either works or it will leak when pressure is applied. Transducer controls pressure, suggest you attach a fluid pressure gauge suitable for 0-5000psi. This will also show you visually of there are leaks in the system
> 
> Attach the gauge as seen in this photo of a 1095 I rebuilt


I was thinking about installing a pressure gauge. Thank you for that. 

Blue sponge? As in a blue scotch-brite sponge?


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Radius118 said:


> I was thinking about installing a pressure gauge. Thank you for that.
> 
> *Blue sponge? As in a blue scotch-brite sponge?*



correct. The gauge will also show you if the system is approaching too high of pressure...


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## lmonson6031 (Apr 26, 2020)

*Paint Sprayer Information*

First off, the Graco Pro210ES is not a contractor grade paint sprayer, more like a DIY level. The entry level contractor grade Graco is the 390. I was a Graco fan and bled Blue for years. My first Graco 390 lasted me 16 years, incredible. When my sprayer finally stopped working I immediately bought another Graco 390 and I have had nothing but problems due to all the components now cheap Chinese parts.

In conclusion, if you want to stay right around $1k for a good paint sprayer, purchase the Titan 440. The unit is small and you do not need a cart which is more expensive, a stand is less expensive and is the same exact unit.


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## maxtn (Jun 19, 2020)

The Pro 210ES is the same as the 390 with the exception of motor lifetime warranty. I did a parts check and motor is the same, all parts except front housing and pump which I am sure could be interchanged. Pump repair manual for both is same. Also a cheaper gun comes with the Pro 210ES. I agree a 395 and up is a better long term investment. I spray exterior and DryLok with my PRO 210ES which has yet to fail. The PRO 210ES is around $850.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

lmonson6031 said:


> First off, the Graco Pro210ES is not a contractor grade paint sprayer, more like a DIY level. The entry level contractor grade Graco is the 390. I was a Graco fan and bled Blue for years. My first Graco 390 lasted me 16 years, incredible. When my sprayer finally stopped working I immediately bought another Graco 390 and I have had nothing but problems due to all the components now cheap Chinese parts.
> 
> In conclusion, if you want to stay right around $1k for a good paint sprayer, purchase the Titan 440. The unit is small and you do not need a cart which is more expensive, a stand is less expensive and is the same exact unit.


Titans suck, cheap plastic made in china crap. don't like spraying with them and don't like working on them. If you want a good made in USA pump then TriTech is hands down the only option. Best pump you will ever own.


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## Respec (Sep 13, 2015)

Find out who your local sprayer rep is. They may have a demo or reconditioned machine available. I bought a Speedflo 4500 that the rep had as a demo that never even had a gallon of paint run through it that he sold to me with $1000 off the top because it was a demo. That thing was a tank. I agree with some of the other comments in that it is quite large and not easily portable. We did a lot of new construction at the time. We would have miles of walls and ceilings to spray. With 2 guns running, I would basically have to pay someone to sit there and keep the five full because it would rip through product so fast. I don't do much of that anymore so I sold it. Another time I bought a Titan 640 that someone had bought and returned because it had something wrong with the computer. They swapped out the electronics and sold it to me half price. It had one day of use on it. I bought that 15-20 years ago and it is still used on a regular basis and I have never had any issues with it.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Respec said:


> Find out who your local sprayer rep is. They may have a demo or reconditioned machine available. I bought a Speedflo 4500 that the rep had as a demo that never even had a gallon of paint run through it that he sold to me with $1000 off the top because it was a demo. That thing was a tank. I agree with some of the other comments in that it is quite large and not easily portable. We did a lot of new construction at the time. We would have miles of walls and ceilings to spray. With 2 guns running, I would basically have to pay someone to sit there and keep the five full because it would rip through product so fast. I don't do much of that anymore so I sold it. Another time I bought a Titan 640 that someone had bought and returned because it had something wrong with the computer. They swapped out the electronics and sold it to me half price. It had one day of use on it. I bought that 15-20 years ago and it is still used on a regular basis and I have never had any issues with it.



with those pumps Ive always seen it best to run out out a 30 gallon bin that way you don't have to keep refilling buckets. the paint gets poured through a mesh screen.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I'd be very leery having that used airless as my primary piece of equipment. Last thing I would need is to get a big job and have that thing crap out on me right in the middle of it. As a back up, it makes sense. But as a primary sprayer, yikes!


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## Radius118 (Jun 23, 2020)

CApainter said:


> I'd be very leery having that used airless as my primary piece of equipment. Last thing I would need is to get a big job and have that thing crap out on me right in the middle of it. As a back up, it makes sense. But as a primary sprayer, yikes!


The idea behind that used Ultra 500 is to repair it and learn. After I gain some experience I'm sure I will be in the market for a newer/better machine.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Radius118 said:


> The idea behind that used Ultra 500 is to repair it and learn. After I gain some experience I'm sure I will be in the market for a newer/better machine.



Those older pumps are fine, just make sure everything is clean and the metal is shiney, replace everything that looks worn from pressure cuts or nicks that you can feel with a finger nail.


If you stop into your local shop you should be able to get all those parts off bedford for about 1/2 the cost through graco.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Radius118 said:


> The idea behind that used Ultra 500 is to repair it and learn. After I gain some experience I'm sure I will be in the market for a newer/better machine.


That seems reasonable. Actually, learning how to spray with a conventional set up like a gravity fed, or pressure pot, would dramatically help dial in some pretty useful skill sets in terms of spraying dynamics. 

The airless' appeal seems to be in it's potential to rapidly increase production. This is true, but there are a lot of logistics to make that happen. For example:

1. Masking
2. Overspray protection and ventilation
3. Correct electrical supply and amperage protection
4. Line lengths and tagging
5. Transportation of equipment
6. Storage of equipment
7. Maintenance of equipment
8. Cleaning of equipment
9. Expense of equipment 
10. High pressure dangers and controls of equipment
11. PPE when using equipment

At the end of the day, and unless a paint company is large enough to generally perform production level applications in the building, commercial, and industrial painting industries, the airless typically sits idle in the painters garage while the simple brush and roller gets most, if not all of the spot light.

But still, somehow we think the machine will improve our production outcomes and thus, our bottom line. 

Just a thought. Not haighin'


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## Radius118 (Jun 23, 2020)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Those older pumps are fine, just make sure everything is clean and the metal is shiney, replace everything that looks worn from pressure cuts or nicks that you can feel with a finger nail.
> 
> 
> If you stop into your local shop you should be able to get all those parts off bedford for about 1/2 the cost through graco.


I haven't even started on the pump yet. Too much other stuff to do at the moment. But I will get to it.

I found Bedford online, but no pricing. First things first though is I need to get that pump apart & cleaned. Then I can figure out what I need for parts.


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## Radius118 (Jun 23, 2020)

CApainter said:


> That seems reasonable. Actually, learning how to spray with a conventional set up like a gravity fed, or pressure pot, would dramatically help dial in some pretty useful skill sets in terms of spraying dynamics.
> 
> The airless' appeal seems to be in it's potential to rapidly increase production. This is true, but there are a lot of logistics to make that happen. For example:
> 
> ...


I get it. At the moment most of the jobs I do are smaller interior repaint / remodel jobs that are not well suited to using an airless. So yes I have my favorite cut in brushes and rollers, etc. 

The impetus behind wanting an airless is it will let me expand to larger jobs where an airless will be helpful - new construction with minimal masking, exterior jobs with minimal masking, etc. 

In addition I have a customer wanting me to do an interior paint on his newly expanded shop. 5500 square feet with 14 foot walls. He is going to sheet it in OSB then have drywallers put a skim coat on the OSB so it doesn't look as bad. Perfect environment for me to practice on.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Radius118 said:


> I haven't even started on the pump yet. Too much other stuff to do at the moment. But I will get to it.
> 
> I found Bedford online, but no pricing. First things first though is I need to get that pump apart & cleaned. Then I can figure out what I need for parts.



Bedford only goes through paint stores they don't sell directly to contractors or HO's. Very easy to order from though for your local paint store.


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## Radius118 (Jun 23, 2020)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Bedford only goes through paint stores they don't sell directly to contractors or HO's. Very easy to order from though for your local paint store.


Ok, good info thank you.

I have found Bedford parts listed on Amazon too.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

CApainter said:


> That seems reasonable. Actually, learning how to spray with a conventional set up like a gravity fed, or pressure pot, would dramatically help dial in some pretty useful skill sets in terms of spraying dynamics.
> 
> The airless' appeal seems to be in it's potential to rapidly increase production. This is true, but there are a lot of logistics to make that happen. For example:
> 
> ...


Boy, I don’t know. When I did exteriors, I always sprayed them. Just wasn’t cost effective (ie, competitive) not to. 

Interiors, I typically only spray if there are pop-corn ceilings, or, if the whole place needs priming due to cigarette issues.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

RH said:


> Boy, I don’t know. When I did exteriors, I always sprayed them. Just wasn’t cost effective (ie, competitive) not to.
> 
> Interiors, I typically only spray if there are pop-corn ceilings, or, if the whole place needs priming due to cigarette issues.


The liability when spraying out doors, was much higher than indoors. At least that was my experience. I hated covering up cars around the house I would be spraying. Just way too much time and effort to protect surrounding properties.

Waterborne paint is much less of a concern because it dries quicker when traveling. But still, brushing and rolling was much calmer in terms of preparation and application. 

The point is, an airless will do little to improve a painter's skill set or production level if they're not using it often. If anything, it'll burn them out from the hectic pace an airless provokes. I only used one where it made more sense than brushing or rolling. And I've sprayed quite a bit over the years.


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## Radius118 (Jun 23, 2020)

Came across an Ultimate MX II 490 PC Pro with Smart Control today for $450.00. Assuming this machine is working is it worth that kind of money? If so I will pick it up then rebuild the Ultra 500 as a backup machine.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Radius118 said:


> Came across an Ultimate MX II 490 PC Pro with Smart Control today for $450.00. Assuming this machine is working is it worth that kind of money? If so I will pick it up then rebuild the Ultra 500 as a backup machine.



$450 is a good bargain even if you have to swap in whole new fluid section.


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## Radius118 (Jun 23, 2020)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> $450 is a good bargain even if you have to swap in whole new fluid section.


 Great! Thank you for the input. I will make arrangements to pick up the machine. The seller will demo it with water of course. I will look closely to see if there are any leaks, etc.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Radius118 said:


> Great! Thank you for the input. I will make arrangements to pick up the machine. The seller will demo it with water of course. I will look closely to see if there are any leaks, etc.





for $450 I would buy it if just the motor runs and it builds pressure. that's about 1/4 the price of a new machine.


entire replacement fluid section less than $300
https://www.portlandcompressor.com/store/fluid-section-ultra-395-595


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## Radius118 (Jun 23, 2020)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> for $450 I would buy it if just the motor runs and it builds pressure. that's about 1/4 the price of a new machine.
> 
> 
> entire replacement fluid section less than $300
> https://www.portlandcompressor.com/store/fluid-section-ultra-395-595


Picked it up Sunday. Seems to work ok with water and didn't seem to leak anywhere. Held pressure easy. Looks like I might have gotten a good deal! :biggrin:

Tangent: For an upcoming personal project I have been keeping an eye out for texture machines. I don't want to do it professionally but if I can find a decent machine for a good price I might take advantage of it. In that vein does anyone here know much about texture machines? I found a Graco 110c Texspray for $250.00. Wondering if it's a good deal or not.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Radius118 said:


> Picked it up Sunday. Seems to work ok with water and didn't seem to leak anywhere. Held pressure easy. Looks like I might have gotten a good deal! :biggrin:
> 
> Tangent: For an upcoming personal project I have been keeping an eye out for texture machines. I don't want to do it professionally but if I can find a decent machine for a good price I might take advantage of it. In that vein does anyone here know much about texture machines? I found a Graco 110c Texspray for $250.00. Wondering if it's a good deal or not.


I got one of those texture hoppers at Home Depot with 4 different tips. I run it off my little Porter Cable compressor for small touch up/repair jobs.. works great. About $80 I think?


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## Radius118 (Jun 23, 2020)

finishesbykevyn said:


> I got one of those texture hoppers at Home Depot with 4 different tips. I run it off my little Porter Cable compressor for small touch up/repair jobs.. works great. About $80 I think?


I have one of those too. Works great if you are just doing a small room.

My house was built in the 20s with god knows what for insulation. Gets really cold in winter and the drywall they slapped up over the years is not in good shape. So I'm going to be tearing all of that down and re-insulating the house, then putting up all new sheet rock. Way too much to do with a hand held hopper gun.


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