# Clear BIN



## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

I have a cabinet job coming up. It's black over black. I have been using the regulac BIN Shellac White in most instances as a primer. However, not wanting to go back to a grey primer just to go black again, would the clear BIN shellc work? Or would this not have the same qualities as a bonding primer like the white version. Not familiar with it at all..Or other suggestions welcomed..


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

finishesbykevyn said:


> I have a cabinet job coming up. It's black over black. I have been using the regulac BIN Shellac White in most instances as a primer. However, not wanting to go back to a grey primer just to go black again, would the clear BIN shellc work? Or would this not have the same qualities as a bonding primer like the white version. Not familiar with it at all..Or other suggestions welcomed..


Same stuff only one is pigmented. I think what might be a 1# cut on the Sealcoat might be different from Bin, although not certain. I also think, although not 100% certain, that the spec on Sealcoat suggests 2 coats if used as a barrier sealer based on it being a 1# cut. That’s the only difference I could foresee.

Edit: I noticed that there is now a clear Bin product, never knew that so disregard my useless post.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Alchemy Redux said:


> Same stuff only one is pigmented. I think what might be a 1# cut on the Sealcoat might be different from Bin, although not certain. I also think, although not 100% certain, that the spec on Sealcoat suggests 2 coats if used as a barrier sealer based on it being a 1# cut. That’s the only difference I could foresee.
> 
> Edit: I noticed that there is now a clear Bin product, never knew that so disregard my useless post.



seal coat is a #2 cut. Bin probably a #3 cut


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> seal coat is a #2 cut. Bin probably a #3 cut


Thanks for clarifying. I usually make my own out of dewaxed flake, often cutting Sealcoat 100% for what is then a 1# cut. That’s probably where that number came from.

Edit: 66% or 2/3 for 1# cut...so I think..


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

Do the numbers represent size or quality of the lac resin flakes???


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

Lightningboy65 said:


> Do the numbers represent size or quality of the lac resin flakes???


You’re dealing with the weight of a solid in a volume of liquid, the numbers not relating to flake size..I’m a bit off my game today.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Lightningboy65 said:


> Do the numbers represent size or quality of the lac resin flakes???



Its pounds shellac to gallons thinner. You can find more detailed charts online if you look.



1 gallon thinner:
1lbs shellac -#1 cut
2lbs shellac - #2 cut (Seal Coat)
3lbs shellac - #3 cut (Bin)


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

Does anyone remember back in the day when they still sold Black Bin?


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Bbb*



finishesbykevyn said:


> I have a cabinet job coming up. It's black over black. I have been using the regulac BIN Shellac White in most instances as a primer. However, not wanting to go back to a grey primer just to go black again, would the clear BIN shellc work? Or would this not have the same qualities as a bonding primer like the white version. Not familiar with it at all..Or other suggestions welcomed..


BIN buyers beware:

https://www.thepurplepaintedlady.com/2014/06/shellac-it-has-a-shelf-life/

futtyos


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

Brushman4 said:


> Does anyone remember back in the day when they still sold Black Bin?


I was never aware....the things one learns on PT!:surprise:


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

Brushman4 said:


> Does anyone remember back in the day when they still sold Black Bin?


I worked with Enamelac long before Bin ever came out. Anyone been around long enough to remember Enamelac? Black can w/orange & white graphics?


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## Mr Smith (Mar 11, 2016)

futtyos said:


> BIN buyers beware:
> 
> https://www.thepurplepaintedlady.com/2014/06/shellac-it-has-a-shelf-life/
> 
> futtyos


6-9 months?

I'd like to hear what coco does with that product after 6-9 months. I'd bet that most paint store owners just keep selling it and don't gaf about it.

They use secret codes for a reason and that's to keep the consumer in the dark.

Notice that the manufacturers only use manufactured a date code and don't put an EXPIRY CODE on the paint can?

Better yet, they should be forced to use an actual *date of expiry* like they do with milk and bread.


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

Mr Smith said:


> 6-9 months?
> 
> I'd like to hear what coco does with that product after 6-9 months. I'd bet that most paint store owners just keep selling it and don't gaf about it.
> 
> Notice that the manufacturers only use a date code and don't put an EXPIRY CODE on the paint can?


One of the primary reasons for mixing my own flake.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Nice. Thanks for all the useful info guys. So obviously a #3 cut is the higher quality? Does that include bonding agents. What is in the Shellac that gives it such a good bond?


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## Mr Smith (Mar 11, 2016)

Alchemy Redux said:


> One of the primary reasons for mixing my own flake.


Does that include BIN shellac primer? I know they were talking about shellac clear coats in that article.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Call up Rustoleum*



Mr Smith said:


> Does that include BIN shellac primer? I know they were talking about shellac clear coats in that article.


You might give Rustoleum a call re whtie pigmented BIN.

Also take note that GE Silicone caulk has an expiration date on each tube that you don't have to decipher.

futtyos


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## PPD (Mar 19, 2018)

I didn’t know there was a clear BIN shellac?! Where has that been all my life!


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

Mr Smith said:


> Does that include BIN shellac primer? I know they were talking about shellac clear coats in that article.


Haven’t used Bin or white pigmented shellac in a good 30 years so I’m not certain. Even then it was just for sealing knots.

Looking at the BIN tech sheet, it states a shelf life of 3 years if that’s any help, but so does the Sealcoat tech sheet. 

Although I burn through a lot of shellac and it doesn’t sit around for any length of time, I always go by the generally accepted 6 month rule, discarding it after then. Thinking if I did ever use BIN I wouldn’t use it too much beyond 6 months after the manufacture date.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I think I tried it once and it was a little milky compared to seal coat. Long time ago though. I could be remembering wrong. I wish shellac flakes were not so expensive. I have never had a problem what seal coat until once this fall. This was not supposed to be a crackle finish.


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

DeanV said:


> I think I tried it once and it was a little milky compared to seal coat. Long time ago though. I could be remembering wrong. I wish shellac flakes were not so expensive. I have never had a problem what seal coat until once this fall. This was not supposed to be a crackle finish.


Looks pretty good for a screw up! I like the crackle effect you’ve got going there.


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

DeanV said:


> I think I tried it once and it was a little milky compared to seal coat. Long time ago though. I could be remembering wrong. I wish shellac flakes were not so expensive. I have never had a problem what seal coat until once this fall. This was not supposed to be a crackle finish.


I agree with Mr. Redux...I think it looks pretty cool.


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

DeanV said:


> I think I tried it once and it was a little milky compared to seal coat. Long time ago though. I could be remembering wrong. I wish shellac flakes were not so expensive. I have never had a problem what seal coat until once this fall. This was not supposed to be a crackle finish.


I’ve both read on other forums and heard of other finishers having issues with crazing when using SealCoat as a sealer. Wondering what you attribute the crazing/crackle effect to on the piece in your photo, being only a one time incident for you?

I started using dewaxed shellac flake as well as SealCoat more regularly only a few years ago, running upwards a couple of hundred thousand board feet of material since then and clearing it with WB PU and never had any crazing. 

I tend not to overly build the shellac, applying thinner coats utilizing 1# cuts, keeping the film to a minimal to reduce the chances of an adverse reaction with high pH WB clears, some of the 2Ks I’ve used being in the high 8 pH range. Just wondering what your thoughts are on the crazing and the reasons why it might happen.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Mr Smith said:


> Does that include BIN shellac primer? I know they were talking about shellac clear coats in that article.



No dewaxed shellac, Bin and Seal coat included, have almost indefinite shelf life.


Regular clear shellac from zinnser do indeed have a short shelf life, and they don't print the manufacture date on the can anymore.


Speaking of, I tried using some inslx seal coat... Doesn't brush at all, and takes a good 3-4 days to cure hard. Stick to BIN.


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> No dewaxed shellac, Bin and Seal coat included, have almost indefinite shelf life.
> 
> 
> Regular clear shellac from zinnser do indeed have a short shelf life, and they don't print the manufacture date on the can anymore.
> ...


I recently used BIN that was probably 10 years old. Needed a bit for a project around the house and found a quart that was about half full (or half empty, depending how you look at things). It worked fine.


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> No dewaxed shellac, Bin and Seal coat included, have almost indefinite shelf life.
> 
> 
> Regular clear shellac from zinnser do indeed have a short shelf life, and they don't print the manufacture date on the can anymore.
> ...


I tend to agree with you on the shelf life. I suspect the more isolated failure incidents that some report having with the SealCoat are due to building it too heavily and coating over it too soon rather than the material not being fresh. I’ve got a bunch of pretty old cans sitting in my outdoor shed, some probably being 5 years old that I’ll often use when playing around with samples, and “I do” make an absurd amount of samples and mock-ups, and never have any problems with expired material. I do tend to err on the side of caution when putting it into production, always using fresh material, disregarding the 3 year shelf life when and if using SealCoat.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Alchemy Redux said:


> I’ve both read on other forums and heard of other finishers having issues with crazing when using SealCoat as a sealer. Wondering what you attribute the crazing/crackle effect to on the piece in your photo, being only a one time incident for you?
> 
> I started using dewaxed shellac flake as well as SealCoat more regularly only a few years ago, running upwards a couple of hundred thousand board feet of material since then and clearing it with WB PU and never had any crazing.
> 
> I tend not to overly build the shellac, applying thinner coats utilizing 1# cuts, keeping the film to a minimal to reduce the chances of an adverse reaction with high pH WB clears, some of the 2Ks I’ve used being in the high 8 pH range. Just wondering what your thoughts are on the crazing and the reasons why it might happen.


I am not sure why it happened. It is possible I over built it, I like to use SealCoat when I make up a toner for cabinet doors. Hard to say though. IIRC it dried for several hours at least. Maybe even overnight.


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