# Wallpapering over wallpaper.



## sincere painter (Apr 14, 2010)

I used to think; prime over wallpaper only as a last resort(especially if being painted) until today. Without getting too obvious, would anyone see, from an estimating viewpoint, how this is actually a benefit to the customer and to the paper installer.


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)




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## sincere painter (Apr 14, 2010)

Nevermind. Just found a useful link posted by "da arch" on the subject. http://billarchibald.com/new_over_old.html
Been transformed.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

sincere painter said:


> Nevermind. Just found a useful link posted by "da arch" on the subject. http://billarchibald.com/new_over_old.html
> Been transformed.


DAMN,

I saw your first post and my fingers were just staring to itch and twitch. I now feel like an unfullfilled teenager after a not so happy ending saturday night. :whistling2:

the ONLY exception is if the paper is on raw rock, then you might as well prepare it as best you can a put gardz over it and then whatever else you want.


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## sincere painter (Apr 14, 2010)

daArch said:


> DAMN,
> 
> I saw your first post and my fingers were just staring to itch and twitch. I now feel like an unfullfilled teenager after a not so happy ending saturday night. :whistling2:
> 
> the ONLY exception is if the paper is on raw rock, then you might as well prepare it as best you can a put gardz over it and then whatever else you want.


There is a learning curve with Guardz that I'm working on. I can't just abandon cover stain and switch to Guardz. Cs has nice "building" abilities, and i got into trouble when I expected the same with Guardz.


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

sincere painter said:


> Cs has nice "building" abilities, and i got into trouble when I expected the same with Guardz.


I don't understand "building" abilities. 

An old timer used to tell me, "Paint doesn't fill, it covers."


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## sincere painter (Apr 14, 2010)

If you saw cs over multiple patches, and Guardz over the same patches next to it I believe it would be very apparent that the cs actually fills small voids and inconsistencies which go unnoticed until you the finish goes on. Then I had to go back to step one and prime all with cs. The Guardz left flashing and "highs and lows" every where. Very embarrassing. There are a couple small benefits but not sold on it yet.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

ProWallGuy said:


> I don't understand "building" abilities.
> 
> An old timer used to tell me, "Paint doesn't fill, it covers."


You haven't tried the new generation-hax version of behr have you ? Scrubs, fills, seals, primes, and finish all in one. And no messy brushes, rollers, or drops needed.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Wallpaper over wallpaper? Only glue will do!:whistling2:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

would rather glue some doodo than doodo some glue


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## Repaintpro (Oct 2, 2012)

sincere painter said:


> Nevermind. Just found a useful link posted by "da arch" on the subject. http://billarchibald.com/new_over_old.html
> Been transformed.




Wow.........love the article Bill. :thumbsup:


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

mudbone said:


> Wallpaper over wallpaper? Only glue will do!:whistling2:


 
:cursing::furious:


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## sincere painter (Apr 14, 2010)

daArch said:


> DAMN,
> 
> I saw your first post and my fingers were just staring to itch and twitch. I now feel like an unfullfilled teenager after a not so happy ending saturday night. :whistling2:
> 
> the ONLY exception is if the paper is on raw rock, then you might as well prepare it as best you can a put gardz over it and then whatever else you want.


Ended up being horsehair plaster. I left the paper on, cover stained it, papered over within two hours. The paper was inside individual "panels". The edges were loose here and there and needed a little sand then prime, no seams, no problems. 

Wondered if maybe I should have used clay based adhesive. Heard once that it's recommended for cold walls (or walls with no insulation?). I used the powdered wheat paste. It's kind of a pain to mix and strain but for one roll of paper,and freeze safe, makes it nice to work with.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

I truly wish that you will be the one that ends up stripping it or something similar in the future.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

daArch said:


> I truly wish that you will be the one that ends up stripping it or something similar in the future.


You sounded very "sincere" in that wish Bill.:yes:


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## sincere painter (Apr 14, 2010)

daArch said:


> I truly wish that you will be the one that ends up stripping it or something similar in the future.


I thought paper over paper was ok when over raw rock...I assumed this was the situation only it was raw "horsehair" plaster AND the customer didn't want removal (without getting into who's really responsible). There were only 6 3x5 panels to paper framed with oak wainscoting. Not that this justifies procedure but just saying it may be considered very small potatoes. I've learned my lesson.

I should know this but when you say rock you mean Sheetrock, not raw plaster? I think that's where I got confused.

And, if it was paper over raw rock, you suggest quardz instead of cover stain or does it really matter.[/QUOTE]

Btw, I have done tons of paper removal mostly difficult. There seems to be no way of easily removing paper on which the walls were not prepared properly. I do find it a daunting task. It's not even enjoyable removing "bad paper" jobs and watching the customer's pocket book bleed one wall at a time and often it's extremely inconsistent based on installation, age, sun and temperature exposure, etc., it's wild. I almost hate it. I've done my share of poor installations and feel I have some consequences to my actions...I am still living in the same area and am easy to find...no one has reported any problems with my installations. I know it's not that simple. We have to try to be accountable for our actions. I would very much like to be able to convince people that the future redisign consequences to poor workmanship many times far outweighs the benefits to a few years of "color therapy". 

Once in awhile, we do have an obligation to convince others of the importance of proper trade practices. I would like to be on that side of the fence. With the help of the forum, I might be able to do this. Sometimes it's difficult to squeeze our estimate and work experiences into black and white on the forum and still be successful. Really have to search for that sweet spot some time. Thanks for listening. Hope I didn't ramble too much.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Rambling is accepted, in case you haven't noticed :whistling2:


IMO, the only acceptable circumstance to paint over wallpaper and satrt frsh if it is hung on raw SHEETROCK that has no primer or even prep coat. And even that is doable with techniques discussed here before.

I agree that paper hung with wheat paste on porous unprimed horsehair plaster can be a headache. But again, doable with the right stripping solutions, time, and patience. 

In a perfect world, all painters/paperhangers would refuse to paint over paper and the HO's who try to cut corners would soon realize there is only one right way.

And yes it does matter choosing either gardz or coverstain. Actually, one should choose the ORIGINAL penetrating drywall repair coating - Draw-Tite, but that's a subject for inept marketing.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Noooooooooo. Not a wallpaper thread bump.

lol


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Workaholic said:


> Noooooooooo. A wallpaper thread bump.
> 
> lol


if you don't like it - hijack it :thumbup:


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

daArch said:


> if you don't like it - hijack it :thumbup:


I am working on it. According to HF we mods are the best at shifting a thread to feed our own immediate gratifications.


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## sincere painter (Apr 14, 2010)

daArch said:


> Rambling is accepted, in case you haven't noticed :whistling2:
> 
> IMO, the only acceptable circumstance to paint over wallpaper and satrt frsh if it is hung on raw SHEETROCK that has no primer or even prep coat. And even that is doable with techniques discussed here before.
> 
> ...


The drawtite penetrates the wallpaper? I'm guessing just "paper-faced"? Without dragging this out, maybe hard for others to see, but in this case it almost seems more productive, if legitimate, to seal up the paper with drawtite and begin with a new slate. Granted, I could actually have one of the most opportune case to prime over, outside knowing an easy way to separate this stuff. I'm really not trying to worm out just thinking out loud. 

Most cases don't work that way so it still feels like swimming upstream. So how can I find that info on separating paper from raw plaster? I'll probably run into it again.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

the secret is a combination of the stripper (I like Safe and Simple, busting through any moisture barrier if there is one (36 grit in a palm sander), soaking sufficiently, timing, and the correct stripping tool.

I can't say I ever have a set recipe I "adhere" to, I try different combinations until I find the best one for the job. Sometimes I figure it all out by the last wall.

And yes, you can OVER soak and use too sharp a blade.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

So why not just paint over the stuff?


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## sincere painter (Apr 14, 2010)

daArch said:


> the secret is a combination of the stripper (I like Safe and Simple, busting through any moisture barrier if there is one (36 grit in a palm sander), soaking sufficiently, timing, and the correct stripping tool.
> 
> I can't say I ever have a set recipe I "adhere" to, I try different combinations until I find the best one for the job. Sometimes I figure it all out by the last wall.
> 
> And yes, you can OVER soak and use too sharp a blade.


Yes this helps. I've heard sandpaper enough to actually try it now. I have a bottle of safe and simple I didn't use yet. It came in the mail after the job was complete. That stuff is pricy too. 

I think oversoaking causes the paper on the rock to lift then I cut it out. I was using dif gel with plastic and soaked for exactly 15 minutes. On the next one I will try 36 on the palm and if the job is big enough I'll use the airless to apply stripper till I'm ready to bust out around $100 for a good pump sprayer by chapin.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

sincere painter said:


> Yes this helps. I've heard sandpaper enough to actually try it now. I have a bottle of safe and simple I didn't use yet. It came in the mail after the job was complete. That stuff is pricy too.
> 
> I think oversoaking causes the paper on the rock to lift then I cut it out. I was using dif gel with plastic and soaked for exactly 15 minutes. On the next one I will try 36 on the palm and if the job is big enough I'll use the airless to apply stripper till I'm ready to bust out around $100 for a good pump sprayer by chapin.


 
Do NOT do this with Diff.:no:


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## sincere painter (Apr 14, 2010)

Not without a respirator


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

sincere painter said:


> Yes this helps. I've heard sandpaper enough to actually try it now. I have a bottle of safe and simple I didn't use yet. It came in the mail after the job was complete. That stuff is pricy too.
> 
> I think oversoaking causes the paper on the rock to lift then I cut it out. I was using dif gel with plastic and soaked for exactly 15 minutes. On the next one I will try 36 on the palm and if the job is big enough I'll use the airless to apply stripper till I'm ready to bust out around $100 for a good pump sprayer by chapin.


 safe,simple and sincere!


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## sincere painter (Apr 14, 2010)

Something tells me s&s will perform the same as other "safe" products like Guardz.


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