# Any innovative scraping ideas



## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Next project is to scrape and paint the exterior porch ceiling that took the major hit from the ice damns.

Anyone have any clever methods of scraping without the tedious work of getting up close and personal with a scraper.

Here are some pix:

























those are 1.5 wide tongue and groove (actually 3" wide with "dado" cut down the middle - Gough will find the right nomenclature for that cut :thumbsup: ).

Most are warped and thus not a smooth flat plane that could be easily power sanded - even if I had an appropriate one. 

Total ceiling area 7 x 20 ft.

I've been picking away at it with a scraper and it is NOT nice on my shoulders. Tried a small steel grass rake and got some major real loose stuff off.

Will not use water blasting as I do not want to introduce any more water. 

Lead? Who knows, I'm the HO so all is "legal". (I am containing reasonably well)

Ideas I had - 


overlay with 1/4" ply, but I'd rather retain the looks of the T&G.
rip out and replace - please, I ain't 18 no more
somehow mount a number of wire brushes on a pole and have at it. 
quick and dirty cursory scrape and prime with Peel Stop, Peel Bond, or better peeling paint primer

Anyway, I turn to those with more experience for innovative ideas.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Is the "dado" a bead or a v-groove? If it's a v-groove, is it on both sides or just one? In the latter two cases, that would be EV1S and EV2S, respectively. If they are Western Red Cedar, they could also be classed as WRCLA1 and WRCLA2. Some people also call the v-groove version "car siding".

Sorry, I don't know the WM number for the style with the bead. It often gets called "bead board" around here.

I wish I knew a graceful way to clean that up. Before RRP, I've seen it done with corn-cob blasting.

Generally, it makes my neck ache just thinking about scraping it. What we've used is Hyde molding scrapers with the triangle blades ground to a gentle curve. The curve lets us scrape cupped boards without gouging.


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## LA Painter (Jul 28, 2009)

That wood is pretty shot. I’d replace it, but *FIRST* make sure your roof is sound. That peeling paint is from moisture. You need to stop it. New T&G with a natural finish would be sweet - with recessed lighting too


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I would go right over it with PVC beadboad or hardie panel.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Gough,

the groove is a v. I have been attacking it slowly with the Hyde scrapers, tear drop and triangle. Maybe I'll reshape the triangle as you suggest if I continue this way. 

LA & Tommy,

if we intended to stay here for the long term, I would invest in replacement or overlay, but we hopefully will be out of here within a year or two, and would hate to invest in something that others would either tear down, totally remodel, or whatever. I'm going for pleasing enough looks, something that will not cost too much (my labor is cheap now) nor create for others a nightmare. 

And yes, I've fixed the roof.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Now, I'd really love some INNOVATIVE ideas. I know all the tried and true methods, but remember, this is MY house, so I can test. If it doesn't work, I'll overlay. :thumbsup:

Put on your thinking caps and throw some ideas out.

Best idea gets . . . . . well, NOTHING, except a hearty THANK-YOU and maybe a coveted PT Gold Star :thumbup1:


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Yikes. That's a hot mess you've got on your hands there. I can't see that being anything less than an incredibly labour intensive project involving several methods of removal.

I know what you mean about not wanting to use a pressure washer on it. I've always hated the idea of introducing water to surfaces I'm wanting to paint. Just the old school way I was trained and I'm stubbornly against change (which I know is kind of stupid).

I'd consider going at this by using a step by step approach in the interests of reducing the amount of time you have to spend working with your arms over your head. Keep using methods that gradually reduces the amount that actually needs to be scraped?

Maybe go at it with a pole sander first, or even a really stiff broom. I know you said the boards are warped, but at least you'll get a bunch of the 'low hanging fruit' that's barely hanging on.

Wonder if next you could go over it with a belt sander with a seriously course grit to get the majority of the less loose stuff off, followed by scraping what's left?

Orbital sand for the finish sanding?

No matter how you go at this, your shoulders are going to beg you for forgiveness.

I did a porch ceiling roughly that size a year ago that was nowhere near in that bad shape. Very similar materials. It was not much fun at all.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

daArch said:


> Now, I'd really love some INNOVATIVE ideas. I know all the tried and true methods, but remember, this is MY house, so I can test. If it doesn't work, I'll overlay. :thumbsup:
> 
> Put on your thinking caps and throw some ideas out.
> 
> Best idea gets . . . . . well, NOTHING, except a hearty THANK-YOU and maybe a coveted PT Gold Star :thumbup1:


Five gallons of diesel and a highway flare???


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Call it abstract art and tell people it's a feature of the house.

"The beauty of nature's decay as presented in an overhead installation."

Or

Wallpaper it. You got skillz and probably leftoverz.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Yikes. That's a hot mess you've got on your hands there. I can't see that being anything less than an incredibly labour intensive project involving several methods of removal.
> 
> I know what you mean about not wanting to use a pressure washer on it. I've always hated the idea of introducing water to surfaces I'm wanting to paint. Just the old school way I was trained and I'm stubbornly against change (which I know is kind of stupid).
> 
> ...


That's what I'm doing now. A wire garden rake on a pole is great for that low hang fruit plus a little more.


(similar to this)











There is no way I could hold a belt sander up for more than a minute or so AND I want to keep the dust to a minimum (gotta buy a lead test kit).

As I said in the OP, I was thinking of some wire brushes strapped together on a pole for the second swipe. 

What degree of loose paint will the peel paints lock down, and for how long ?


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Call it abstract art and tell people it's a feature of the house.
> 
> "The beauty of nature's decay as presented in an overhead installation."
> 
> ...


That's already option B. :thumbsup:


HMMMMMM, scrape the low hanging, apply gardz to lock it, hang liner, and paint. VOILA. NO future headaches to build rotten karma :no:


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Not sure how you'd attach a wire brush (or several) to a pole securely enough to make it useful specifically for the purpose you need it for.

Yeah, the more I think about it the less fun the belt sander idea would be. I understand the idea of reducing the amount of dust, but just scraping isn't really going to leave you with a surface that's ready for painting I wouldn't think.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

The real heavy sandpaper.
40 grit I think.
Knocks it right off. One pass gone.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

We had a sh'load of varnished soffit that we had to sand to bare wood and refinish about 12 years ago. It was days running a RO sander overhead. I don't think my neck and shoulders ever recovered.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

I think it was Meritt that used to make a rotary flap sanding head that we did use on some similar siding. It chucked into a drill and threw bits and pieces into your face the whole time you were running it. It was a joy to operate.

It's probably still in the shop somewhere.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Oden said:


> The real heavy sandpaper.
> 40 grit I think.
> Knocks it right off. One pass gone.


Yep, I was prepping a handrail made of some pretty bulky lumber at a farmhouse couple of years ago. Paint was failing horribly. Got some 36 grit belts and basically shaved everything I could get at with the belt sander.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Hire a kid to do it.

Or

Local probation office. Find the meanest probation officer available. Tell them you have a horrible project for someone they supervise but really dislike that has to do community service hours.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Yep, I was prepping a handrail made of some pretty bulky lumber at a farmhouse couple of years ago. Paint was failing horribly. Got some 36 grit belts and basically shaved everything I could get at with the belt sander.


I don't know why you and Oden bother fussing around with the fine sandpaper. Pick up some 16 grit flooring discs and git 'er done!

That'll help get rid of those pesky v-grooves while you're at it.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Hire a kid to do it.
> 
> Or
> 
> Local probation office. Find the meanest probation officer available. Tell them you have a horrible project for someone they supervise but really dislike that has to do community service hours.


WildBill, did you forget who you're talking to???


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Gough said:


> I don't know why you and Oden bother fussing around with the fine sandpaper. Pick up some 16 grit flooring discs and git 'er done!
> 
> That'll help get rid of those pesky v-grooves while you're at it.


I just googled it and you can actually get 12 grit! That's gotta be like rocks glued to paper! I also didn't know you could get 1000 grit paper. I've seen 400, but have never had a use for it.

I watched the 16 grit discs being used by a couple of co-op students for that ever so pleasant GC I worked for a while back. Grinding plywood joints down for hardwood installation. Doing it on the weekend so it was just them and me around. *He didn't even give them paper masks.* They spent 8hrs doing this. It was painful to watch.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Hey, wait a minute! I just thought of something.

Isn't this a DIY type question?

Please post this on diychatroom Sir. This is a forum for professional painting contractors, or those of us who wing it doing everything contractless.


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## LA Painter (Jul 28, 2009)

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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

It would be kind of interesting to see what types of responses you got if you did post this over there.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

Naaah one time I was working on windows with this dude. Outside real bad peeling windows, and I was using a scraper,
He turned me on to the heavy sandpaper for to use. And I didn't see the merit in it. You know didn't think it would work well. Back then I knew everything, anyhow when I tried it I was shocked. Kinda bittersweet I admit to find you've been doing a task the hard way for 15 years or so but 15 minutes of scraping turned into 30 seconds and a better job. A eureka moment. 

That pic. DeArch has. Put it on a sanding head it will knock it right off. What little the sanding head don't drop corner the paper and get the rest. A hour? Maybe 2 with some liberal breaks. Overhead is overhead, and stenosis is painful. No way around that here.


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

Oden said:


> Naaah one time I was working on windows with this dude. Outside real bad peeling windows, and I was using a scraper,
> He turned me on to the heavy sandpaper for to use. And I didn't see the merit in it. You know didn't think it would work well. Back then I knew everything, anyhow when I tried it I was shocked. Kinda bittersweet I admit to find you've been doing a task the hard way for 15 years or so but 15 minutes of scraping turned into 30 seconds and a better job. A eureka moment.
> 
> That pic. DeArch has. Put it on a sanding head it will knock it right off. What little the sanding head don't drop corner the paper and get the rest. A hour? Maybe 2 with some liberal breaks. Overhead is overhead, and stenosis is painful. No way around that here.


I know what you mean about the heavy grit. Found the same thing till I got some great scrapers. These ones will knock it down quick and easy. Just got to have them sharp and plenty of blades ready to go. 








Either way I like your plan. 40 grit on a pole.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

See if I can remember what I've read and respond correctly.

The sandpaper "Flapper" in the drill chuck. Haven't used that, but I did buy the one with the metal wires. Wish I still had it. HEY, don't some weedwackers use metal wire ??? :thumbsup:

The sandpaper I use in my palm sander for scoring wallpaper is from a 24 x 4 inch belt, Diablo 36 grit - Home Depot
It lasts longer and is somewhat anti clog. I've used it for many other areas of the house. I was going to try it in a pole sander. But remember, the boards are warped and buckling in areas. I've screwed them back up, but still not flush and level. I may be able to make progress going perpendicular to the grain. 

I'll look for some of the floor grit at the local rental store. 

We have two prisons in town, CERTAINLY I could get some cheap labor out from them - only cost me about ten oxys :thumbup:

I'm still heavily leaning toward the diesel and flare - although I think a Tiki torch would look more (stupidly) accidental :whistling2:

No matter what I do, the sharp scrapers will be used at some stage. I have a feeling it'll be a little of this and a little of that and a huge pain in the neck. No time schedule so I can spend like 15 - 30minutes a day. Well maybe if I take the 10 oxy, I can get 'er done in a day :jester: :thumbsup:


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

daArch said:


> See if I can remember what I've read and respond correctly.
> 
> The sandpaper "Flapper" in the drill chuck. Haven't used that, but I did buy the one with the metal wires. Wish I still had it. HEY, don't some weedwackers use metal wire ??? :thumbsup:
> 
> ...


Dangit, I was just about to suggest the weedeater as an innovative way to remove that loose paint. String trimmers are hell on a sound painted surface, might be just the ticket for that loose stuff. Not sure if you should go with the grain or across the grain. Probably need to check with Gough on that. :whistling2:


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## PremierPaintingMa (Nov 30, 2014)

I have 2 big sanders i could let you borough one is a 5” Random Orbital SanderVac™ Pro 10,000 RPM you don't need to buy the sand paper for this one i have a ton of them and one Festool RAS 115. I can leave it for you at Bable's to pic up.


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

Really surprised no one has suggested chemical stripping. ..


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

Your shoulders are going to take a beating with any effective technique. You deserve much better. Don't scrape or sand. Cover that crap. Straight Lines had a good suggestion in my opinion. Maybe purchase the materials and have some of the younger neighbors help out. You can supervise. Or get some of these fellow PTers from Mass. to stop on by one weekend for a ceiling party.:thumbup:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

PremierPaintingMa said:


> I have 2 big sanders i could let you borough one is a 5” Random Orbital SanderVac™ Pro 10,000 RPM you don't need to buy the sand paper for this one i have a ton of them and one Festool RAS 115. I can leave it for you at Bable's to pic up.


Thanks Dave, I appreciate it. There's something in my Yankee blood that makes it difficult for me to borrow tools.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

driftweed said:


> Really surprised no one has suggested chemical stripping. ..


I've thought of it. Just can't wrap my brain around it. I've stripped a whole house once with 5f5 and I still get the shudders thinking of it.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

SemiproJohn said:


> Your shoulders are going to take a beating with any effective technique. You deserve much better. Don't scrape or sand. Cover that crap. Straight Lines had a good suggestion in my opinion. Maybe purchase the materials and have some of the younger neighbors help out. You can supervise. Or get some of these fellow PTers from Mass. to stop on by one weekend for a ceiling party.:thumbup:


John,

Overlay is still an option. Just exploring the least expensive. SS benefits don't start until mid Aug and my outflow/inflow looks too much like Greece's for the moment.


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

daArch said:


> John,
> 
> Overlay is still an option. Just exploring the least expensive. SS benefits don't start until mid Aug and my outflow/inflow looks too much like Greece's for the moment.


I understand Bill. It is just too darned easy for me to spend the money of others with my suggestions!


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

$20 a sheet. 

Of course if your labor is free then you won't find a cheaper option than a scraper. 

Or you could just install this and let the new owners worry about it. 

May need a coat of guardz after installation. :jester:


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## bbair (Nov 18, 2012)

Would a cup brush and grinder be too aggressive?


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

daArch said:


> John,
> 
> Overlay is still an option. Just exploring the least expensive. SS benefits don't start until mid Aug and my outflow/inflow looks too much like Greece's for the moment.


Is there anything above the boards, like insulation? 

Given that you seem to have time, it might actually be worth exploring the notion of popping them loose, prep them on the bench, prime them, and then reinstall them. Especially if you can get an air nailer.

I know that sounds crazy, but it might actually be less time consuming than working on them _in situ_. It would certainly be less painful.

The old-time carpenters that I started with talked about working "upside down", and they avoided it whenever possible. Similarly, ironworkers and shipbuilders call it "up hand" work and understand how inefficient it is.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

THANK-YOU Tommy, I hadn't seen that FashionWall before. I was looking at stuff at Blowes and thought of 0.196" ply. I am concerned that 3/16 will be problematic with the buckling boards. Yes, I know, strap it like every 12 inches. 

But that stuff should be much nicer looking than sanded ply. 

:thumbup:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

bbair said:


> Would a cup brush and grinder be too aggressive?



I don't believe anything would be aggressive :whistling2:


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## PNW Painter (Sep 5, 2013)

Hit the ceiling with pole sander using the lowest grit abrasive you can find. Then spray a couple coats thick coats of peel bond or similar primer and then top coat. 

At best it'll work great. At worst it'll continue to peel and you'll have to replace the ceiling.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Gough said:


> Is there anything above the boards, like insulation?
> 
> Given that you seem to have time, it might actually be worth exploring the notion of popping them loose, prep them on the bench, prime them, and then reinstall them. Especially if you can get an air nailer.
> 
> ...


The space above is an eves next to the Mast Bd Rm. Yes, insulation that is totally matted down, filth, rodent droppings (and prolly skeletal remains), roofing debris, plaster debris, etc. Joists are like 24" OC and strapping 16" OC. 

Remember, if this promises to be TOO much of a physical drain, I will overlay. I'm just exploring the scrape and paint option before I commit to that. 

It'll only be about $100 to overlay. cash flow may be like Greece, but we do have some liquid assets if necessary.


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## PremierPaintingMa (Nov 30, 2014)

daArch said:


> Thanks Dave, I appreciate it. There's something in my Yankee blood that makes it difficult for me to borrow tools.


I have no problem if it brakes it brakes no worries I will be responsible.
Seriously if you wan't it let me know.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

PremierPaintingMa said:


> I have no problem if it brakes it brakes no worries I will be responsible.
> Seriously if you wan't it let me know.



Thanks, I'll keep the option open, along with the Laphroaig bottle :thumbsup:


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## PremierPaintingMa (Nov 30, 2014)

daArch said:


> Thanks, I'll keep the option open, along with the Laphroaig bottle :thumbsup:


Have a nice Jura Islay single malt with that.


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## bbair (Nov 18, 2012)

We did this in a day with three grinders.


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

straight_lines said:


> $20 a sheet.
> 
> Of course if your labor is free then you won't find a cheaper option than a scraper.
> 
> ...


Somewhere inside this post^ probably gets my vote.

But here is a question. Say you just get the stiffest deck brush you can find, screw it into a pole and do as much stiff bristle dry scrub you want. Then a good coat of Peel Stop Triple Thick.

What then would be the best high build finish coat to apply?

Is there something on the market like a Regal High Build on steroids to hide most of the leftover sins?

Or what about Rustoleum Restore 10x? Sure it sucks eggs on decks, but that is because it is exposed to everything decks are exposed to. Your covered ceiling protects from all that.

How much would just stiff bristle brush and coat with Restore cost?

Compare that to the cost/effort of Straight Lines solution.

Post pics when done. Pretty please.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Peel Stop is what, $40 +/- ?
Have no idea about a wire brush.

It is a ceiling protected from weather, so even a paint from the dump's Paint Shed would suffice. :thumbsup: But I would most likely need finish paint for the overlay material too. 

The overlay material would be $100 +/- plus strapping and fasteners. AND I would have to fabricate a dead man or something to hold the overlay boards in place as I position and fasten. 


I had settled on an overlay until I realized how badly the present ceiling had buckled. If I can get them secured back up, then overlay makes the most sense. As you can tell, I'm working this all out as we all speak. 

It's great having the luxury of being unsure of what to do and being able to vacillate. Could NEVER do that on a real job. This is like playing in a sandbox. :thumbup:


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

daArch said:


> Peel Stop is what, $40 +/- ?
> Have no idea about a wire brush.
> 
> It is a ceiling protected from weather, so even a paint from *the dump's Paint Shed would suffice.* :thumbsup: But I would most likely need finish paint for the overlay material too.
> ...


Yeah, 1 gallon Peel Stop 3x out the door is $40 retail. And I was simply suggesting nylon bristle scrub brush.

But I think I get it now. You want to spend zero money on this job. You have a basement full of leftover paint that you will use. The prep can be far from perfect, you want the prep to be done with items on hand, and you want to avoid as much strenuous labor as possible.

Well, HO, you got a leaf blower?

After that, slap a coat of paint on. In 20 months when you are ready to put the thing on the market, see if you need a fresh coat, touch ups, or nothing.


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

The only reason I thought of "Deck Restore/Revive/Correct/Over" is because those pics you posted look like the ones in the promo images for those products.

And because this would be the one application where the coating might actually last.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

I paint paint said:


> Yeah, 1 gallon Peel Stop 3x out the door is $40 retail. And I was simply suggesting nylon bristle scrub brush.
> 
> But I think I get it now. You want to spend zero money on this job. You have a basement full of leftover paint that you will use. The prep can be far from perfect, you want the prep to be done with items on hand, and you want to avoid as much strenuous labor as possible.
> 
> ...


I actually have just about depleted my own paint in the basement. But the Paint Shed at the Town Transfer Station always has something. 

The Deck Restore products have such a low coverage rate, I'd be spending about $75, but they may provide an adequate enough coating that might last long enough - being protected from the elements. 


It appears that there is not a relatively simple way to scrape the paint. I was hoping that someone had fabricated a scraping tool along the lines of the steel rake I found somewhat useful. I'm going to mull this over and may put it off until cash flow is a little better and do the overlay. 

I got plenty of other projects. And that ceiling ain't goin no where.


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## Flaky (Sep 12, 2008)

I needed an adapter to connect my ROS to a new shopvac. I tried sawing off the end of an old vac extension to get the right diameter and it worked fine, also made it much easier on the shoulders.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Flaky said:


> I needed an adapter to connect my ROS to a new shopvac. I tried sawing off the end of an old vac extension to get the right diameter and it worked fine, also made it much easier on the shoulders.



The lengths we go to to prep! Good job!


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

I'm all for working smarter vs. harder, but sometimes there's no substitute for hard work.


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

Regular scraper. Thread onto extension pole. Hit the loose stuff. Paint. 

Can't see it taking more than a half hour to scrape if u just wanna get the stuff thats basically volunteering to fall of anyway.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

bryceraisanen said:


> Regular scraper. Thread onto extension pole. Hit the loose stuff. Paint.
> 
> Can't see it taking more than a half hour to scrape if u just wanna get the stuff thats basically volunteering to fall of anyway.



The metal grass rake will do that in no time. But then there is the stuff that I know SHOULD be scraped . . . . .


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## bbair (Nov 18, 2012)

A grinder and 3" cup brush will make really quick work of that.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Bill, if you'd just _scrape_ the barnacles off that checkbook, this whole situation could be resolved! 

Damn penny-pinching Yankees. :yes:

:jester::jester:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

slinger58 said:


> Bill, if you'd just _scrape_ the barnacles off that checkbook, this whole situation could be resolved!
> 
> Damn penny-pinching Yankees. :yes:
> 
> :jester::jester:


HA, jokes on you, I don't own a check book :thumbup:


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

daArch said:


> HA, jokes on you, I don't own a check book :thumbup:


What? Are you a part of that underground economy I alluded to in another thread? :jester:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

slinger58 said:


> What? Are you a part of that underground economy I alluded to in another thread? :jester:


Yah, that's me, I tender only contraband and foodstuff. :thumbsup:


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I didn't read through this whole thread, but did any one mention a needle gun?


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

CApainter said:


> I didn't read through this whole thread, but did any one mention a needle gun?


No. No one did.

EDIT: Now that I googled it, and know what we are talking about, I can say neat idea. Now all we need is for someone to buy one for Arch, lift it over his head for him, and slide him back and forth.

That would be pretty darn innovative.


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

CApainter said:


> *I didn't read through this whole thread*, but did any one mention a needle gun?


Also, we don't hold it against you.

We see you have been quite busy in the Look What Happened…. thread.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

I had to google it also. I assume they make electric ones? Looks like a nifty tool. I bet it costs more than the overlay :whistling2:


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

It's a great tool for removing paint from steel surfaces. Gough mentioned something similar with the root peen, but I would prefer the needle gun on this application. 

You'd also have to be careful with the wood, but the needle gun allows you pressure control. The one I have is pneumatic and built by Vox I believe. It can become heavy for extended overhead use. I'm also not sure how it'll perform on latex.

They come in various sizes and can range up to $1,200.00 with the vacuum attachments.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

CApainter said:


> It's a great tool for removing paint from steel surfaces. Gough mentioned something similar with the root peen, but I would prefer the needle gun on this application.


Really? 

I can't imagine running a needle gun overhead for that long. Not to mention trying to dial in the air pressure to avoid severe damage to the soft wood

OTOH, the last porch lid I saw done with cob blast was quick and still looks good nearly 20 years later.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

CApainter said:


> I didn't read through this whole thread, but did any one mention a needle gun?


I don't think anyone mentioned a deck crawler either. I wonder why?:jester:


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Gough said:


> Really?
> 
> I can't imagine running a needle gun overhead for that long. Not to mention trying to dial in the air pressure to avoid severe damage to the soft wood
> 
> OTOH, the last porch lid I saw done with cob blast was quick and still looks good nearly 20 years later.


The needle guns can be heavy, but they do come in smaller sizes. The point is the reciprocating method of removal verses grinding or rotary impact.

I actually have a pnuematic needle gun built on a six foot steel pole. It's designed for floors, but its really heavy.

The thing I like about the needle gun is, it doesn't kick dust all over the place. Even without the vacuum attachment.

I'm not saying its the best option, but an option none the less.


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## jprefect (Mar 4, 2015)

You still have shoulders? There is hope for me! I'm starting to wonder about all of this endless scraping. . . . 

Anyway, my thoughts:

1) peel-away. (or your favorite stripper, and maybe a wire brush on a pole) rinse, repeat. 

2) some silly home-owner BS. I like the flapper wheel idea. There are these nylon-bristle finger-wheels ( reminds me of a plastic wire wheel) that I used on my neighbor's shed when I was 16. I'm SURE wagner's got a version of it, and since it's your own house, just do it in the dark, and don't tell anyone your shameful secret. 

3) wait until next year. all the paint should have fallen off by then. 

4) hire a kid to do it.  Not me, I'm too expensive, the older I get. 

and, for what it's worth, I don't think that's lead paint. The picture is kinda blurry. I'd have to taste it to be sure. 

Good luck!


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Sorry if this has already been mentioned. If your goal is least amount of labour vs. Cost etc. Put the old turbo nozzle on the pressure washer. It dry out eventually..or alternatively spray it down with some stripper first.. make sure to wear your safety goggles.lol..


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Sorry if this has already been mentioned. If your goal is least amount of labour vs. Cost etc. Put the old turbo nozzle on the pressure washer. It dry out eventually..or alternatively spray it down with some stripper first.. make sure to wear your safety goggles.lol..


I think I may have mentioned somewhere that I don't got no power washer - not much use for one when hanging wallpaper  :whistling2:

But that was my first thought, then I realized I really didn't want to wait for it to dry. It's tough to predict how humid a summer can be around here.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

daArch said:


> I think I may have mentioned somewhere that I don't got no power washer - not much use for one when hanging wallpaper  :whistling2:
> 
> But that was my first thought, then I realized I really didn't want to wait for it to dry. It's tough to predict how humid a summer can be around here.


I would avoid pressure washing also. One, that roto tip requires at least a 3K psi washer, and will likely maul the wood. And two, why wet it more than it has to be.


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## cody o'mick (Jul 2, 2015)

I'd hire certapro, just to come scrape it for me, then paint it. 

I'm kidding

No i'd get the leaks fixed first then i'd invest in some local young talent. School is out. i bet for 8 bux an hour and some waters you can have it prepped good enough in 2 days with 2 reasonably fit teens.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

Rent a portable abrasive blast pot. Plastic off the area, floor as well, load up some corn sugar, corn cob or walnut shell, and you're good. Some of them even vacuum back the blast media making clean up easier. I've used them on old shingles with great results.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

All these ideas are great, but not within the stated parameters. 

think CHEAP, as in NO cost. If it costs more'n like $75, I'm overlaying.


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## cody o'mick (Jul 2, 2015)

daArch said:


> All these ideas are great, but not within the stated parameters.
> 
> think CHEAP, as in NO cost. If it costs more'n like $75, I'm overlaying.


dremel tool and stiff nylon brush wheels

/thread.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

I wish I had retrieved my father's wire brush wheel that could be put on his grinder - I know I could have adapted it to a drill.


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## cody o'mick (Jul 2, 2015)

daArch said:


> I wish I had retrieved my father's wire brush wheel that could be put on his grinder - I know I could have adapted it to a drill.


yep, 6" x 3/8" carriage bolt or lag screw, lock washers on either side of wheel and secure a nut (2 is better), then grind 3 flat spots off the thread end for the chuck to seat well and prevent spinning.

EDIT:

Dont forget safety glasses or a shield. Seriously.


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

daArch said:


> All these ideas are great, but not within the stated parameters.
> 
> think CHEAP, as in NO cost. If it costs more'n like $75, I'm overlaying.


How about placing a reloadable fireworks mortar tube on your head and lighting it. That should remove all that flaking paint from the ceiling, and should only cost a few bucks. :jester:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Oh don't worry, my shield is hanging on the wall under the ceiling. Even with a hand scraper it is necessary.


Hell, it was necessary hacking at the ice dams that caused the leaks


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## cody o'mick (Jul 2, 2015)

The only other real idea i had was using a hoe or a tile scraper with a bend to approxmately 45 degrees to accommodate working from the floor comfortably. but then you'll have corner dig issues. you could round em i guess

use this for the loose flat crap, and dremel the v grooves.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

SemiproJohn said:


> How about placing a reloadable fireworks mortar tube on your head and lighting it. That should remove all that flaking paint from the ceiling, and should only cost a few bucks. :jester:


"watch this"


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

daArch said:


> Oh don't worry, my shield is hanging on the wall under the ceiling. Even with a hand scraper it is necessary.
> 
> *Hell, it was necessary hacking at the ice dams that caused the leaks*


Hey, so Norfolk _did_ end up getting a little more snow than usual this past winter?

Heard something on the nightly news a few months ago about Mass getting buried, figured it was just one of those false alarms.

Who knew? How come you or CD haven't mentioned it until now…

:whistling2:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

cody o'mick said:


> The only other real idea i had was using a hoe or a tile scraper with a bend to approxmately 45 degrees to accommodate working from the floor comfortably. but then you'll have corner dig issues. you could round em i guess
> 
> use this for the loose flat crap, and dremel the v grooves.


exactly, The boards are too narrow and cupped and warped for anything of decent size.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

I paint paint said:


> Hey, so Norfolk _did_ end up getting a little more snow than usual this past winter?
> 
> Heard something on the nightly news a few months ago about Mass getting buried, figured it was just one of those false alarms.
> 
> ...


When did you crawl out from under that rock? April ? :jester: :thumbsup:


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## cody o'mick (Jul 2, 2015)

daArch said:


> exactly, The boards are too narrow and cupped and warped for anything of decent size.


I wonder if there's a way to rig a spray gun head and a shot out trim tip to a decent sized air compressor. make a sort of beadless air blaster? I mean air hose fittings are pretty interchangeable as long as your spray hose is the same diameter. might have to modify one end of a air hose, idk.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

cody o'mick said:


> I wonder if there's a way to rig a spray gun head and a shot out trim tip to a decent sized air compressor. make a sort of beadless air blaster? I mean air hose fittings are pretty interchangeable as long as your spray hose is the same diameter. might have to modify one end of a air hose, idk.


I do understand you just joined the group, so there's little way for you to know that I'm a very recently retired paperhanger - - - meaning: I don't got no spray equipment, pressure washer, compressor, etc. 

I DO have LOTS of single edge razor blades though


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

daArch said:


> When did you crawl out from under that rock? April ? :jester: :thumbsup:


Well, if I am not currently in a slumber than one is assuredly not too far off.

I have found that in life (not just job sites) it is best to have just arrived, or to be on your way to the next place.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

daArch said:


> I do understand you just joined the group, so there's little way for you to know that I'm a very recently retired paperhanger - - - meaning: I don't got no spray equipment, pressure washer, compressor, etc.
> 
> I DO have LOTS of single edge razor blades though


In that case. Get your rolling scaffold out there. Lie on your back. Leisurely scrape away and catch up on some nap time while your at it..


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Well, no great "EUREKA" moments yet, although I am trying EVERYTHING. The rake I mentioned does quite well getting the real loose stuff, Then the Hyde triangle scraper ACROSS the grain, wire wheel on drill lifts a few things off, and the 20 grit on a pole smooths a little. I know I am getting too particular about what I determine is too loose to leave, some of the chips are fairly tight.

I'm attacking this on nice days for 30 - 60 minutes at a time, depending on neck and shoulders.

Anyway, I was walking through the house wonder WHAT will help me along, and I hit upon it.


MARSHMALLOW FLUFF ! ! Just overcoat it with M.F. It's adhesive, thick, and white. :thumbup: :whistling2:


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

daArch said:


> Anyway, I was walking through the house wonder WHAT will help me along, and I hit upon it.
> 
> 
> *MARSHMALLOW FLUFF ! ! Just overcoat it with M.F. It's adhesive, thick, and white. * :thumbup: :whistling2:


I like it. What's a gallon of MF run at the supermarket?


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

cody o'mick said:


> I wonder if there's a way to rig a spray gun head and a shot out trim tip to a decent sized air compressor. make a sort of beadless air blaster? I mean air hose fittings are pretty interchangeable as long as your spray hose is the same diameter. might have to modify one end of a air hose, idk.


How did I miss this? Thinking outside the box.:thumbup:

And BTW, "beadless air blaster"? Hell, that's you, Bill! :jester:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

slinger58 said:


> How did I miss this? Thinking outside the box.:thumbup:
> 
> And BTW, "beadless air blaster"? Hell, that's you, Bill! :jester:


Wasn't that Don Martin's character - Fester Bester Flatulator ? :whistling2:


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## cody o'mick (Jul 2, 2015)

slinger58 said:


> How did I miss this? Thinking outside the box.:thumbup:
> 
> And BTW, "beadless air blaster"? Hell, that's you, Bill! :jester:


I asked a couple guys at work about it that use more air tools than I do and they think that the PSI you'd need to get anything done is unrealistic. So if anyone is feeling froggy and wants to test out the theory I'd be interested to see the results. Keeping in mind its for use on large areas of separation due to moisture, and also having used a wood shop and thinking about blowing the dust off ourselves you might want to go with no tip at all.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

*Update and minor advice*

Just out of sheer stubbornness (ME? surprising), I moved forward with scraping and sanding the ceiling. Little bit each day except during the last heat wave. The best technique was putting some of that 20 grit on a disc that I forgot I had and using my oldest and crappiest 1970's B&D single speed 1/4" drill (I think I kinda wore it out :whistling2: )

Anyway, all the loose stuff is off, and then some.

I'm gonna use the big Z's Peel Stop. (don't bother to advise differently, I already bought it ) 

Any caveats about application w/ roller and brush (besides the obvious DON'T)


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

daArch said:


> Just out of sheer stubbornness (ME? surprising), I moved forward with scraping and sanding the ceiling. Little bit each day except during the last heat wave. The best technique was putting some of that 20 grit on a disc that I forgot I had and using my oldest and crappiest 1970's B&D single speed 1/4" drill (I think I kinda wore it out :whistling2: )
> 
> Anyway, all the loose stuff is off, and then some.
> 
> ...


Cut the chatter an have at er. We're waiting for pix, or it didnt happen.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

quote "Who knew? How come you or CD haven't mentioned it until now…"

Hell, that's all they talked about all winter:whistling2:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

bryceraisanen said:


> Cut the chatter an have at er. We're waiting for pix, or it didnt happen.


Even WITH a pic, it don't prove it happened :thumbsup:

Digital pix LIE.


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

daArch said:


> Even WITH a pic, it don't prove it happened :thumbsup:
> 
> *Digital pix LIE.*


So did the old fashioned kind.

And documentaries.

Your newspaper of record.

History texts.

Etc.


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

I paint paint said:


> Hey, so Norfolk _did_ end up getting a little more snow than usual this past winter?
> 
> Heard something on the nightly news a few months ago about Mass getting buried, figured it was just one of those false alarms.
> 
> ...





chrisn said:


> quote "Who knew? How come you or CD haven't mentioned it until now…"
> 
> Hell, that's all they talked about all winter:whistling2:


Lemme guess, it went something like:

daArch: "I love being snowed in. There is no expectation for me to leave the house and spend money."


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

I paint paint said:


> Lemme guess, it went something like:
> 
> daArch: "I love being snowed in. There is no expectation for me to leave the house and spend money."


YAH, BUT gas for the snowblower DOES. And we really could not have waited til April for the gods to change the molecular structure of all that white stuff.


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## Vaughan (Aug 24, 2015)

Sodablast that ****.


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## Innovative Painting (Sep 19, 2015)

I know you are past loose paint removal, but for future readers...
Last year we worked on a Frank Loyd Wright house (in Oklahoma) with an exterior of brick, copper and mahagony. The finish had totally failed and much of the wood had grayed. We discovered the most effective process was to scrape the gummy finish and then sand with a quarter-sheet sander using 40 grit floor sandpaper cut to fit, followed by successive grits going from 40 to 60 to 80 to 100 to 125 to 150 to 180 and in some cases finished with 220. We essentially had a furnish finish on the exterior which is overkill for most projects. On our own 100+ year old house, we used a scraper just to knock off the loose stuff followed by the quarter-sheet sander with 40 grit and then 60 grit. This is plenty sufficient to give a pleasing look as well as a long-lived paint job. The quarter-sheet sander is relatively light and maneuverable and affordable. The floor sanding paper is about $1.50 per foot and you can plow through a lot of ground in a short period of time. While the 40 grit is aggressive, with care and following up with 60 grit, you will have minimal wood destruction. Note: Scraping is not nearly so difficult if one keeps the blades sharp with a grinder. New-out-of-the-package blades are not sharp...and there is an art to sharpening, so practice. Also, get a half dozen or so scrapers and make less trips to the grinder. Make no mistake, under the best of circumstances, this is still hard work, but it makes it possible for a 63 yo man and his 59 yo wife to get it done! I have pictures if anyone is interested, if I can figure out how to upload them.


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

bryceraisanen said:


> Cut the chatter an have at er. We're waiting for pix, or *it didnt happen.*


… I dunno bryce, I'm beginning to fear the latter …

… and snow will be flying soon …


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Innovative Painting said:


> I know you are past loose paint removal, but for future readers...
> Last year we worked on a Frank Loyd Wright house (in Oklahoma) with an exterior of brick, copper and mahagony. The finish had totally failed and much of the wood had grayed. We discovered the most effective process was to scrape the gummy finish and then sand with a quarter-sheet sander using 40 grit floor sandpaper cut to fit, followed by successive grits going from 40 to 60 to 80 to 100 to 125 to 150 to 180 and in some cases finished with 220. We essentially had a furnish finish on the exterior which is overkill for most projects. On our own 100+ year old house, we used a scraper just to knock off the loose stuff followed by the quarter-sheet sander with 40 grit and then 60 grit. This is plenty sufficient to give a pleasing look as well as a long-lived paint job. The quarter-sheet sander is relatively light and maneuverable and affordable. The floor sanding paper is about $1.50 per foot and you can plow through a lot of ground in a short period of time. While the 40 grit is aggressive, with care and following up with 60 grit, you will have minimal wood destruction. Note: Scraping is not nearly so difficult if one keeps the blades sharp with a grinder. New-out-of-the-package blades are not sharp...and there is an art to sharpening, so practice. Also, get a half dozen or so scrapers and make less trips to the grinder. Make no mistake, under the best of circumstances, this is still hard work, but it makes it possible for a 63 yo man and his 59 yo wife to get it done! I have pictures if anyone is interested, if I can figure out how to upload them.


I agree on so many points, especially mechanical means to KEEP the scrapers sharp - I use a belt sander. I tried a 1/4 sheet sander and a 1/2 sheet sander with the 20 grit, but the disc on the drill was far faster and I was able NOT to leave swirly marks. 

I primed with an elastomeric peel preventer, then BIN, and finally two coats of a flat exterior . It came out well enough.

To refresh, this is what it looked like after the winter











Next is about 90% scraped and sanded. 










And finally after painting:










FULLY understanding that a photo can hide a multitude of sins, this next shot is a close-up of one of areas that looks the worst. I've adjusted the pic to make it look as bad as possible. It gives a good representation. The flat finish does hide a lot at a quick glance. 









I have NO idea how many total hours. I'd spend about 60 - 90 minutes at a time until my neck, shoulders, and arms screamed ENOUGH. I'd guess I got about 10 - 15 s.f. scraped and sanded each attack, but that's completely a guess. It sure seemed slow and tedious.


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

That's massive improvement Bill. Now all you have to do is paint that piece of siding that is above the window and below the ceiling and I will call it finished. :jester:


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

SemiproJohn said:


> That's massive improvement Bill. Now all you have to do is paint that piece of siding that is above the window and below the ceiling and I will call it finished. :jester:


And caulk. This guy is cutting corners left and right. :jester:

============

On a serious note, congrats. Looks great. Going up on the market in spring?


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

SemiproJohn said:


> That's massive improvement Bill. Now all you have to do is paint that piece of siding that is above the window and below the ceiling and I will call it finished. :jester:


It's aluminum. This house was tin canned before we bought it - and really crapply. I plan to wash it and see how it cleans up. If it's wretched, I'll throw a coat of flat white on it before we sell :whistling2:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

I paint paint said:


> And caulk. This guy is cutting corners left and right. :jester:
> 
> ============
> 
> On a serious note, congrats. Looks great. Going up on the market in spring?


Hopefully sooner. But I'll keep you all posted when plans are better confirmed.


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