# commercial painting in North Carolina



## seacleaner

Good evening morning whatever it is wherever you are any painters out there from the ole north state ? doing commercial work, I'm getting the hell away from the new residential market IV"E been doing this crap to long, for what there wanting pay around here 1980s pricing " " need a little bidding advice before the land sharks move in Iv"e had some good invitations to bid some large jobs 10.000 to 70.000 sq ft it looks like .80 sq ft. anybody interested in talking I can give more info ??​


----------



## premierpainter

No thanks


----------



## Harry

It's going to take a whole lot more than this venue to help you.
Give me a call this week and I'll give you some good advice...
603-263-0345


----------



## straight_lines

Welcome to the site from a fellow tarheel from SE North Carolina. I found the commercial NC market to be a bad fit for me, just like the residential NC market in terms of profit margins. In fact it was worse, and many pc's are depending on additional work to make any money. Their bids are often dead break even.

I do repaints and remodels, and probably always will unless things change for the better.

Harry does know his stuff thou, and has more experience than anyone else here. Best of luck :thumbsup:


----------



## Workaholic

I meant X(20)


----------



## Paradigmzz

Hi Claude. Id like my grain bins dun painted. Can you give me a real gud prize for them? There awful big. Whats your goin rate for a project like this? Im in Texas but I can ship the grain bins to your area.


----------



## Workaholic

Paradigmzz said:


> Hi Claude. Id like my grain bins dun painted. Can you give me a real gud prize for them? There awful big. Whats your goin rate for a project like this? Im in Texas but I can ship the grain bins to your area.


lol Claude was removed which made my posts less entertaining.  I did quote him nine times in another thread, now I look even more stupid.


----------



## Paradigmzz

Workaholic said:


> lol Claude was removed which made my posts less entertaining.  I did quote him nine times in another thread, now I look even more stupid.


I saw it. Your quotes make sense with me.


----------



## RH

I has no idea what youz two talkin' bout. :no: :whistling2:


----------



## Workaholic

RH said:


> I has no idea what youz two talkin' bout. :no: :whistling2:


Got to do better than that to earn your keep. :whistling2:


----------



## RH

Workaholic said:


> Got to do better than that to earn your keep. :whistling2:


I know… a good example of "hack modding". :blush:


----------



## Workaholic

RH said:


> I know… a good example of "hack modding". :blush:


The masses will forgive you.


----------



## Workaholic

Paradigmzz said:


> I saw it. Your quotes make sense with me.


We are in the now then.


----------



## RH

Workaholic said:


> The masses will forgive you.


Masses be damned - it's Gough I'm worried about. The guy is an unforgiving perfectionist. :shutup:


----------



## Workaholic

RH said:


> Masses be damned - it's Gough I'm worried about. The guy is an unforgiving perfectionist. :shutup:


Sounds like he will keep you on your toes, always striving to be on his level. :jester:


----------



## RH

Workaholic said:


> Sounds like he will keep you on your toes, always striving to be on his level. :jester:


Truly - and it's pure hell.


----------



## ReNt A PaInTeR

seacleaner said:


> Good evening morning whatever it is wherever you are any painters out there from the ole north state ? doing commercial work, I'm getting the hell away from the new residential market IV"E been doing this crap to long, for what there wanting pay around here 1980s pricing " " need a little bidding advice before the land sharks move in Iv"e had some good invitations to bid some large jobs 10.000 to 70.000 sq ft it looks like .80 sq ft. anybody interested in talking I can give more info ??​


Good evening morning to you too. :whistling2:


----------



## richmondpainting

Other than the pricing issue.....is there alot of commercial work in the Carolinas? Every one says it bad but I cant imagine its really that bad......


----------



## Oden

richmondpainting said:


> Other than the pricing issue.....is there alot of commercial work in the Carolinas? Every one says it bad but I cant imagine its really that bad......


ur the only guy I know that carpet bags in reverse...
did I ever bid jobs right in Mexico itself yet?
lol


----------



## richmondpainting

Oden said:


> ur the only guy I know that carpet bags in reverse...
> did I ever bid jobs right in Mexico itself yet?
> lol


Im just looking to add more states to my bidding. Ive learned were a "right to work" state....im not totally sure what that is...bout to google it....but I think it may be why pricing is a bit different here....


----------



## Gough

richmondpainting said:


> Im just looking to add more states to my bidding. Ive learned were a "right to work" state....im not totally sure what that is...bout to google it....but I think it may be why pricing is a bit different here....


Short answer, it doesn't mean what you think it means. It's really a misnomer, it should really be called "Right to Free-load", or reap the rewards of a group's work without supporting it financially.


----------



## richmondpainting

Gough said:


> Short answer, it doesn't mean what you think it means. It's really a misnomer, it should really be called "Right to Free-load", or reap the rewards of a group's work without supporting it financially.


All I know is ive rented lifts in iowa and Minnesota and they are considerably more exspensive. ....they told me wisconsin is a right to work state....and thats why lifts are cheaper here....

They have union mechanics and drivers at the lift company's and thats ridiculous


----------



## Gough

richmondpainting said:


> All I know is ive rented lifts in iowa and Minnesota and they are considerably more exspensive. ....they told me wisconsin is a right to work state....and thats why lifts are cheaper here....
> 
> They have union mechanics and drivers at the lift company's and thats ridiculous


Wisconsin isn't a "Right to Work" state....


----------



## richmondpainting

Gough said:


> Wisconsin isn't a "Right to Work" state....


Okay....then its backwards.....iowa and Minnesota are...


----------



## Gough

richmondpainting said:


> Okay....then its backwards.....iowa and Minnesota are...


No, Iowa is, Minnesota isn't. 

You might have to look at something beside those evil unions, maybe something as elementary to business economics as supply and demand.

2013 Rank of State Economies

Iowa 5
Minnesota 10
Wisconsin 34


----------



## richmondpainting

Gough said:


> No, Iowa is, Minnesota isn't.
> 
> You might have to look at something beside those evil unions, maybe something as elementary to business economics as supply and demand.
> 
> 2013 Rank of State Economies
> 
> Iowa 5
> Minnesota 10
> Wisconsin 34


The guy was from iowa who made that statement. ...

Im assuming #5 means they have a good economy?


----------



## Rbriggs82

richmondpainting said:


> Im just looking to add more states to my bidding. Ive learned were a "right to work" state....im not totally sure what that is...bout to google it....but I think it may be why pricing is a bit different here....


lol I think Illinois is a forced unionism state, and I doubt very much that has anything to with pricing.


----------



## richmondpainting

I dont know...i guess I need to just do more research more on what states id like to go into bidding wise.....and I need to figure out which ones you need licensing for....and which are too union to be in.....I have a good idea but would like to find a confirmed list


----------



## Gough

Look up the states with the lowest mean hourly wage for BLS Occupation Code #47-2141.
You should concentrate on those states, that will be a good match for your business model.

lol


----------



## richmondpainting

Gough said:


> Look up the states with the lowest mean hourly wage for BLS Occupation Code #47-2141.
> You should concentrate on those states, that will be a good match for your business model.
> 
> lol


Not really....."Some thing Bigger" is my model/motto....


----------



## chrisn

richmondpainting said:


> Not really....."Some thing Bigger" is my model/motto....


 
Alaska is pretty big:yes:


----------



## Gough

richmondpainting said:


> Not really....."Some thing Bigger" is my model/motto....


Protip: motto /= model


----------



## Epoxy Pro

richmondpainting said:


> Im just looking to add more states to my bidding. Ive learned were a "right to work" state....im not totally sure what that is...bout to google it....but I think it may be why pricing is a bit different here....


With all the traveling and commercial work you do you don't know what this is?


----------



## richmondpainting

cdpainting said:


> With all the traveling and commercial work you do you don't know what this is?


No...and I still dont really understand it....


----------



## Epoxy Pro

richmondpainting said:


> No...and I still dont really understand it....


Google can be your best friend.


----------



## Epoxy Pro

richmondpainting said:


> No...and I still dont really understand it....


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-to-work_law


----------



## richmondpainting

cdpainting said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-to-work_law


Thats exactly what I read...im still confused


----------



## Epoxy Pro

richmondpainting said:


> Thats exactly what I read...im still confused


Ok let me it try this way. Right to work states you can bid against union companies for contracts. You still need to pay the unions their dues and pay your crew union wages.

Example: A union company bids 100k on a job, say you bid 95k and get the job. You then have to pay the union it's dues like members do ($1,000.00) and you pay your guys (example) $35.00 which is what the going union rate is Plus the benefits and health insurance and retirement (I could be wrong on some of this).

Years ago I think it used to be referred to as a non union competitive wage bid (or some contractors referred to it that way). Again meaning you bid against unions as a non union company but pay union dues and wages.


----------



## richmondpainting

cdpainting said:


> Ok let me it try this way. Right to work states you can bid against union companies for contracts. You still need to pay the unions their dues and pay your crew union wages.
> 
> Example: A union company bids 100k on a job, say you bid 95k and get the job. You then have to pay the union it's dues like members do ($1,000.00) and you pay your guys (example) $35.00 which is what the going union rate is Plus the benefits and health insurance and retirement (I could be wrong on some of this).
> 
> Years ago I think it used to be referred to as a non union competitive wage bid (or some contractors referred to it that way). Again meaning you bid against unions as a non union company but pay union dues and wages.


Kinda sounds like prevailing wage.....except for the paying the union thing.....


----------



## Gough

cdpainting said:


> Ok let me it try this way. Right to work states you can bid against union companies for contracts. You still need to pay the unions their dues and pay your crew union wages.
> 
> Example: A union company bids 100k on a job, say you bid 95k and get the job. You then have to pay the union it's dues like members do ($1,000.00) and you pay your guys (example) $35.00 which is what the going union rate is Plus the benefits and health insurance and retirement (I could be wrong on some of this).
> 
> Years ago I think it used to be referred to as a non union competitive wage bid (or some contractors referred to it that way). Again meaning you bid against unions as a non union company but pay union dues and wages.


I don't think that's at all what "Right to Work" means. It's my understanding that it basically ends the union shop, where all employees of a company are either union members or become members after they are hired. It outlaws the "union security clause".

The reason some people refer to RTW laws as the "Right to Freeload" is that the non-union employees are gaining the benefits that are the result of collective bargaining without supporting the group that does the bargaining.


----------



## Epoxy Pro

richmondpainting said:


> Kinda sounds like prevailing wage.....except for the paying the union thing.....


It is. the union thing called dues which I still don't understand why a non union company would have to. I do understand paying the prevailing wages and bennies.


----------



## Gough

richmondpainting said:


> Kinda sounds like prevailing wage.....except for the paying the union thing.....


I think there's some confusion here between "Right to Work" and Davis-Bacon. Or, more specifically between RTW and "Little Davis-Bacon", the prevailing-wage laws of individual states. They are very different critters.


----------



## Epoxy Pro

Gough said:


> I don't think that's at all what "Right to Work" means. It's my understanding that it basically ends the union shop, where all employees of a company are either union members or become members after they are hired. It outlaws the "union security clause".
> 
> The reason some people refer to RTW laws as the "Right to Freeload" is that the non-union employees are gaining the benefits that are the result of collective bargaining without supporting the group that does the bargaining.


It's confusing. Like I said I could be wrong, like that has ever happened to me being wrong. :whistling2:

I think your right I did a little more reading I'm still a little confused but am getting a clearer picture.


----------



## Rbriggs82

Here's an example of how it works.

My wife, a nurse, worked in a county nursing home in PA while working there they unionized and she didn't want to join. Because PA is not a right to work state she was FORCED to become a member and pay dues. 

If the same happened here in SC, a right to work state, she could have opted out and not have paid dues.


----------



## Oden

richmond is the best advertisement for unions on the PT....lol. He's searching for lower wages and standards and he's got a clue that getting away from states with a stronger union presence is probly his best bet. too funny. race to the bottom. Go!


----------



## richmondpainting

Oden said:


> richmond is the best advertisement for unions on the PT....lol. He's searching for lower wages and standards and he's got a clue that getting away from states with a stronger union presence is probly his best bet. too funny. race to the bottom. Go!


I cant work in highly unionized areas.....thats common sense

And im not searching for lower pay....just good areas to bid in.....


----------



## Oden

richmondpainting said:


> I cant work in highly unionized areas.....thats common sense
> 
> And im not searching for lower pay....just good areas to bid in.....


sure you can. you just don't know how to go about it I guess. but sure you can. one foot in front of the other like anything else,


----------



## richmondpainting

Oden said:


> sure you can. you just don't know how to go about it I guess. but sure you can. one foot in front of the other like anything else,


Ive tried but gcs arent real thrilled about us working third shift....and hiding....and I have no employees with union cards if thats what you mean....

And it doesn't make much sense to bid in say Boston when everything goes union...kinda a waste of my time and money.....


----------



## Oden

richmondpainting said:


> Ive tried but gcs arent real thrilled about us working third shift....and hiding....and I have no employees with union cards if thats what you mean....
> 
> And it doesn't make much sense to bid in say Boston when everything goes union...kinda a waste of my time and money.....


o.k. somebody gets a book. easey snuff. the jobs u do are all really one or two guy jobs anyway. go from there. I couldn't even list the endless scams I could run in this space. it's just a game u play is all. little jobs like what u do is easey cause while you may not think so nobody really cares or pays attention to them.


----------



## Epoxy Pro

richmondpainting said:


> Ive tried but gcs arent real thrilled about us working third shift....and hiding....and I have no employees with union cards if thats what you mean....
> 
> And it doesn't make much sense to bid in say Boston when everything goes union...kinda a waste of my time and money.....


At times there is so much work going on non union painting contractors can wiggle their way in. It's all about the timing.


----------



## richmondpainting

cdpainting said:


> At times there is so much work going on non union painting contractors can wiggle their way in. It's all about the timing.


Im sure I could do a job or two....but does it make sense to consistently bid union work in states ive never been too ? To generals that have no idea who iam ? Were talking bigger jobs too....mostly over 20 sq ft and thats still small....


----------



## Gough

richmondpainting said:


> Im sure I could do a job or two....but does it make sense to consistently bid union work in states ive never been too ? To generals that have no idea who iam ? Were talking bigger jobs too....mostly over 20 sq ft and thats still small....


After all, what's the point in going after those higher- priced jobs, right?

That's called the "Willie Sutton" business model.


----------



## richmondpainting

Gough said:


> After all, what's the point in going after those higher- priced jobs, right?
> 
> That's called the "Willie Sutton" business model.


That has nothing to do with it....how do I do work efficiently in areas with unions...some malls I hear they have guard shacks checking cards...ive heard stories of other trades cutting sprayer lines....breaking into job boxes....destroying walls....that doesn't sound like fun...ill end up in jail....I dont take people messing with my money or family lightly....

I was bidding in Maryland till I heard on here it was mostly union...not to mention it didnt look like they had many bigger jobs going on.....and everything north of dc is definitely union....

California and flordia are off limits...atleast for now...I have ten states as of now and just looking for other interesting states to add....


----------



## Gough

richmondpainting said:


> That has nothing to do with it....how do I do work efficiently in areas with unions...some malls I hear they have guard shacks checking cards...ive heard stories of other trades cutting sprayer lines....breaking into job boxes....destroying walls....that doesn't sound like fun...ill end up in jail....I dont take people messing with my money or family lightly....
> 
> I was bidding in Maryland till I heard on here it was mostly union...not to mention it didnt look like they had many bigger jobs going on.....and everything north of dc is definitely union....
> 
> California and flordia are off limits...atleast for now...I have ten states as of now and just looking for other interesting states to add....


You might want to do a little more research, rather than listening to rumors.

Maryland has a lower union membership than WI...in FL it's half that of WI.


----------



## richmondpainting

Gough said:


> You might want to do a little more research, rather than listening to rumors.
> 
> Maryland has a lower union membership than WI...in FL it's half that of WI.


Florida you need licensing and with maryland...
That was said to me by people on here who dont care for me.....


----------



## Gough

richmondpainting said:


> Florida you need licensing and with maryland...
> That was said to me by people on here who dont care for me.....


There's no state licensing for painters in Flo...oh, never mind. Carry on.


----------



## richmondpainting

Gough said:


> There's no state licensing for painters in Flo...oh, never mind. Carry on.


But its county by county....yea I know...but I dont have time to research every job before I have my estimator bid it.....im not trying to get licensed I an area I will only work once in....why not go for other states I van go into with free reign

Once im that big that ive come into all the states possible and expanded like that then...... that may be an option later


----------



## chrisn

Gough said:


> There's no state licensing for painters in Flo...oh, never mind. Carry on:thumbsup:.


 
really, if this guy cannot do a little better research, why bother trying to teach him anything? 

Maryland a union state? I have lived here for over 30 years and that's news to me


----------



## chrisn

richmondpainting said:


> But its county by county....yea I know...but I dont have time to research every job before I have my estimator bid it.....im not trying to get licensed I an area I will only work once in....why not go for other states I van go into with free reign
> 
> Once im that big that ive come into all the states possible and expanded like that then...... that may be an option later


 
again, Alaska is vast, lots of opportunities up there


----------



## Oden

Goughe is a voice of logic and reason throughout.

Richmond thinks Maryland is a union stronghold and the rent a cops at the malls will turn him in to Hoffa and the Sopranos will show up on his job and put Pauly on his payroll as a ghost?

Crisn thinks he should be bidding work in Alaska and I think he ought b looking into opportunities in Mexico...

better than t.v.


----------



## Paradigmzz

You forgot to mention it will all be done with temp agency labor from Wisconsin...


----------



## richmondpainting

Oden said:


> Goughe is a voice of logic and reason throughout.
> 
> Richmond thinks Maryland is a union stronghold and the rent a cops at the malls will turn him in to Hoffa and the Sopranos will show up on his job and put Pauly on his payroll as a ghost?
> 
> Crisn thinks he should be bidding work in Alaska and I think he ought b looking into opportunities in Mexico...
> 
> better than t.v.


Ive been told by multiple gcs and other painters that there are guard shacks at certain malls and no way to get in with out a union card....in Chicago that is....

Why would I bid jobs in Jersey if most go union? Waste of time id think.....


----------



## richmondpainting

Paradigmzz said:


> You forgot to mention it will all be done with temp agency labor from Wisconsin...


Were in wisconsin Illinois iowa Minnesota Missouri Ohio Michigan Texas Colorado indiana


----------



## Epoxy Pro

richmondpainting said:


> Ive been told by multiple gcs and other painters that there are guard shacks at certain malls and no way to get in with out a union card....in Chicago that is....
> 
> Why would I bid jobs in Jersey if most go union? Waste of time id think.....


I myself have never been to a mall with a guard shack, they have mall cops yeah but no guard shacks. What do they check every car that enters? Search all the passengers? How hard could it be to look up the company that actually runs the malls without getting searched and then wondering around looking for the guy in charge?

This makes absolutely no sense.


----------



## richmondpainting

cdpainting said:


> I myself have never been to a mall with a guard shack, they have mall cops yeah but no guard shacks. What do they check every car that enters? Search all the passengers? How hard could it be to look up the company that actually runs the malls without getting searched and then wondering around looking for the guy in charge?
> 
> This makes absolutely no sense.


Rosemont ...I believe....arent you in chicago ?

Not to mention im trying to stay from malls....jobs arent big enough ...


----------



## Epoxy Pro

richmondpainting said:


> Rosemont ...I believe....arent you in chicago ?
> 
> Not to mention im trying to stay from malls....jobs arent big enough ...


Unless Massachusetts changed their name. No I live in MA.


----------



## premierpainter

If you come to NJ and paint a union job w/o a union card, odds are good you will get messed up and all of your work will to. Not a good idea


----------



## Epoxy Pro

premierpainter said:


> If you come to NJ and paint a union job w/o a union card, odds are good you will get messed up and all of your work will to. Not a good idea


Shhhhh!


----------



## richmondpainting

cdpainting said:


> Shhhhh!


I already know that.....thats why im staying away from the upper east coast


----------



## Paradigmzz

richmondpainting said:


> Rosemont ...I believe....arent you in chicago ?
> 
> Not to mention im trying to stay from malls....jobs arent big enough ...


Your clueless. Malls get renovated. The main areas of malls.


----------



## chrisn

Paradigmzz said:


> Your clueless. Malls get renovated. The main areas of malls.


 
you really do have to wonder at times


----------



## slinger58

chrisn said:


> again, Alaska is vast, lots of opportunities up there


Texas is a large also, and you have a possible mentor to help you there in College Station.:jester:


----------



## Oden

Paradigmzz said:


> Your clueless. Malls get renovated. The main areas of malls.


while I am not able to c pricing really. I know that every time I ever painted a store in a mall and these chain stores I never heard any complaints about time spent. that tells me them stores go for good money.

I make union rate. the money is there and then some if you run the job right.

Never had any issues with time on them chain stores.


----------



## richmondpainting

Paradigmzz said:


> Your clueless. Malls get renovated. The main areas of malls.


Ive never seen much on that type of project...


----------



## waevans10

richmondpainting said:


> That has nothing to do with it....how do I do work efficiently in areas with unions...some malls I hear they have guard shacks checking cards...ive heard stories of other trades cutting sprayer lines....breaking into job boxes....destroying walls....that doesn't sound like fun...ill end up in jail....I dont take people messing with my money or family lightly....
> 
> I was bidding in Maryland till I heard on here it was mostly union...not to mention it didnt look like they had many bigger jobs going on.....and everything north of dc is definitely union....
> 
> California and flordia are off limits...atleast for now...I have ten states as of now and just looking for other interesting states to add....



Maryland definitely has it's share of low quality hacks/gypsies. Union membership in Local 1 for true industrial is around 400. Most work here is done open shop. There's a large number of bridge guys here but a lot of them work all across the country. 


Sent from my iPhone using PaintTalk.com


----------



## 6126

Harry said:


> It's going to take a whole lot more than this venue to help you.
> Give me a call this week and I'll give you some good advice...
> 603-263-0345


Wheres Harry? Is he still coming around?


----------



## richmondpainting

waevans10 said:


> Maryland definitely has it's share of low quality hacks/gypsies. Union membership in Local 1 for true industrial is around 400. Most work here is done open shop. There's a large number of bridge guys here but a lot of them work all across the country.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PaintTalk.com


Yea....i know that now....Not much going on in maryland....or at least what I'm looking for.....


----------



## chrisn

richmondpainting said:


> Yea....i know that now....Not much going on in maryland....or at least what I'm looking for.....


 
we prefer it like that:thumbsup:


----------



## richmondpainting

Plus some guy on here lied about maryland be mostly union.....i must be kinda intimidating or something ?


----------



## slinger58

richmondpainting said:


> Plus some guy on here lied about maryland be mostly union.....i must be kinda intimidating or something ?


I'm sure that's what it is.


----------



## richmondpainting

slinger58 said:


> I'm sure that's what it is.


Lol....he must not have much to do


----------

