# Dunn Edwards vs Frazee



## robladd (Nov 22, 2010)

I'm trying to decide on Dunn Edwards or Frazee on a tool shed project that I'm doing.

It's corrugated aluminum and I want to go with water base. These are the 2 systems I have narrowed it down to.

Dunn Edwards Bloc Rust for primer and WB Syn Lustro for finish.

Frazee 561 Acrylic Metal Prime and 136 Aro Thane for finish.

Any help from the tri-state Cal/Nev/Ari region would help. 

Dunn Edwards and Frazee are my choice now but other systems will be considered.


Thanks in advance. Rob


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

We don't have either here, So once again, I'm of no help


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## robladd (Nov 22, 2010)

Bender said:


> We don't have either here, So once again, I'm of no help


What products would you refer. We have both box stores and SW in vegas.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

I'd go with whichever one demo'ed me 

Psst, you do have Vista Paints to.  I'd go with their metal prime and Protec.


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## sagebrush123 (Mar 11, 2011)

robladd- its looks as if you write the MSDS for the paint store

I was thinking leaving it to patina and rust on its own would be more a'naturale.....sides that it doesn't rain in vegas so there should be no rust-huh?


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## robladd (Nov 22, 2010)

The thing is a lot of homes here have attached garages. I don't consider them garages but more like enclosed car ports.

So many people have yard and garden tool sheds that's more like a man/cave but not as nice as a custom man/cave. 

Basements make the best man/caves out there. So where there is no basements we have tool shed/man caves and driveways.

I hope this makes sense so the guys that have tool shed/man caves in their drive ways will understand why Im choosing Dunn Edwards or Frazee.

Really Nice Tool Shed/ ManCaves are in the Back Yard!


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## robladd (Nov 22, 2010)

ewingpainting.net said:


> I'd go with whichever one demo'ed me
> 
> Psst, you do have Vista Paints to.  I'd go with their metal prime and Protec.


Carefree or Protec there is a lot of man/caves on Fathers Day Weekend that need attention .

Carefree has great working time.

Protec dries FAST. I really like Vista Paint they make many user friendly paints.

2 reasons I want to go with Dunn Edwards or Frazee is they have a little more solids and Vista is WAY on the other side if town.


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

As far as industrial finishes go, Pratt & lambert has a great new acrylic DTM and you could always go with their rust inhibitive primer. Also, I would rec. Ben Moore's industrial finishes. As far as who's better between DE and Frazee, I hate to say this, as I used to sell Frazee and my competitor sells DE down the street, Frazee is cheaper, but DE has a little better quality finishes. But always compare the data sheets, and remember, there is always more to it than who has the most solids: such as quality of colorants, resin quality, ect.


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

Oh, and BTW, I believe Vista is the least best out of the companies I mentioned.


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## robladd (Nov 22, 2010)

Thank you hammerheart14 for the info doing my best to steer clear of the oil base. I painted some swamp coolers with rustoleum and those units are still holding up very well "surprised". PL and BM are too hard to get and out of my price range. Not going to go there! 

I think for argument I will do a different man/cave in Dunn Edwards, Frazee and Vista! in that order. Results will follow, Rob


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

hammerheart14 said:


> Oh, and BTW, I believe Vista is the least best out of the companies I mentioned.


Why cause your competitor I've been buying from carries it


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

robladd said:


> Carefree or Protec there is a lot of man/caves on Fathers Day Weekend that need attention .
> 
> Carefree has great working time.
> 
> ...


You should check out Rust Oleum Sierra series. Its a Great industrial paint for metal and Dunns sells it.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

Well if you go with Dunn Edwards just make sure you really don't care about the color. Them fookers are horrible and matching their own colors. Not sure about Frazee, last time I used their stuff was when they had that speedwall stuff where you had to add about 3 gallons of water per fiver. That chit was sweet..

Pat


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

To answer your question Rob, I would choose Protec over Carefree. Protec has the rust prohibitors and is great resistance against mold. It has a harder shell than Carefree, I would only use Carefree on exterior woodwork, not metals, though you can apply it to metals. I would just want a harder shell. If I were you being Vista is not convenient for you, I would check out that Rust Oleum, here in Cali, Dunns stock it on the shelves. Although Frazee do have a few quality coatings, It wouldn't be my choice for residential, Frazee is the tract/commercial/semi industrial paint supplier of the industry. Basically I think their paint stinks.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

PatsPainting said:


> Well if you go with Dunn Edwards just make sure you really don't care about the color. Them fookers are horrible and matching their own colors. Not sure about Frazee, last time I used their stuff was when they had that speedwall stuff where you had to add about 3 gallons of water per fiver. That chit was sweet..
> 
> Pat


That product was designed for the tract housing/apartment, then they came out with heavy duty, 2-3 gal cut and pre thinned. Not a quality coating at all. Just a blow and go paint.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Just to clarify when I say Protec, I'm not talking about the oil, but the Protec Alkyd Emulsion. Here in my parts, the oil protec is not available due top Cali EPA regs, so we just say Protec, but mean the alkyd emulsion.


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Why cause your competitor I've been buying from carries it


Huh? You've been buying from Big Bear Paint Center? Why? They don't have Vista paints, and besides, I can offer better advice, service, Prices and product.


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## GerryPPGKPC (May 25, 2011)

Dont know if you have a PPG dealer but if you do check out the Pitt-Tech DTM wb acrylic or Breakthrough and if you wanna get serious Durethane 2 Component Aliphatic Urethane.


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## sagebrush123 (Mar 11, 2011)

are you referencing driving to big bear paint center because the air quality is so much better there, and therefore you can still buy toxic good ol' stuff?


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

hammerheart14 said:


> Huh? You've been buying from Big Bear Paint Center? Why? They don't have Vista paints, and besides, I can offer better advice, service, Prices and product.


I'm just phucking with you cause you bagged Vista of which you have no experience in applying it or nor do I think you sold it. I've applied thousands of gallons of Vista, and that experience has proven both quality and longevity  I take the advice about products from a competing paint supplier with a grain of salt. Every supplier has one goal, to sell their product, which makes your opinion biased.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

sagebrush123 said:


> are you referencing driving to big bear paint center because the air quality is so much better there, and therefore you can still buy toxic good ol' stuff?


He is :yes: 

Where you from?


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

GerryPPGKPC said:


> Dont know if you have a PPG dealer but if you do check out the Pitt-Tech DTM wb acrylic or Breakthrough and if you wanna get serious Durethane 2 Component Aliphatic Urethane.


It's the good stuff. Its for serious projects.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

:lol: glad the tj is back


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## sagebrush123 (Mar 11, 2011)

years ago I had found a loop hole. I needed to use something on a log home in Springville, Ca. I was living in San Diego at the time. Not much was available in my area as there is not many log homes...mostly stucco as you know...
I also had two clients that owned second homes in Big Bear,(sugarloaf and by big bear ski lifts) and stumbled upon some good stuff..(at the big bear paint center).and I was like...hmmmmm. it must be the air quality that allows them to sell these products, still.

lots of interesting things go on in California.


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## robladd (Nov 22, 2010)

TJ Paint said:


> It's the good stuff. Its for serious projects.


There is a Pittsburg store across the Street from the Frazee store near Vista that carries BM. DE and SW are in my neighborhood
going to do some more research cause nothings more serious than a man and his cave. Rob


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

robladd said:


> What products would you refer. We have both box stores and SW in vegas.


A good metal spot primer, emolsa bond and 100% Acrylic would be my approach, unless its new metal. Then I'd want a better primer, like urethane modified acrylic.


Isn't Frazee part of KWAL? If so I'd avoid it.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

ewingpainting.net said:


> :lol: glad the tj is back


Oh this isn't the original TJ. I bought his painttallk account at a discount because he doesn't have that many thankyous. NEPS account was too expensive to buy. :thumbsup:


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## robladd (Nov 22, 2010)

Found some SW and Pitt products that I considered but after the warm welcomes
and time frames projected I will stick to my Guns Dunn Edwards, Frazee and VISTA
is making a good showing to win the biz.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Call all your reps and put this offer on the table. 

1st one to give me a lunch and free slot play at Hooters gets the deal. This is a man cave right! :jester:


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

ewingpainting.net said:


> I'm just phucking with you cause you bagged Vista of which you have no experience in applying it or nor do I think you sold it. I've applied thousands of gallons of Vista, and that experience has proven both quality and longevity  I take the advice about products from a competing paint supplier with a grain of salt. Every supplier has one goal, to sell their product, which makes your opinion biased.


actually, i used vista paints in the mid 90's, wasn't impresses with it. also, from other painter's word of mouth, and technical data sheets, the painmt company doesn't stack up against paint companies like ben moore, pratt, c2, sherwin, and even ppg. they just have anything like duration, aura, accolade as far as i know. i always found them to be like frazee, more professional coating than anything else, i.e. production lines.


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

sagebrush123 said:


> years ago I had found a loop hole. I needed to use something on a log home in Springville, Ca. I was living in San Diego at the time. Not much was available in my area as there is not many log homes...mostly stucco as you know...
> I also had two clients that owned second homes in Big Bear,(sugarloaf and by big bear ski lifts) and stumbled upon some good stuff..(at the big bear paint center).and I was like...hmmmmm. it must be the air quality that allows them to sell these products, still.
> 
> lots of interesting things go on in California.


too bad, CONKLIN PAINTS have been around much longer than those guys, have the same oil products (high voc), have more experience on the job, more knowledge, better service, better paint and stain matches, AND most of all, better prices!


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

hammerheart14 said:


> actually, i used vista paints in the mid 90's, wasn't impresses with it. also, from other painter's word of mouth, and technical data sheets, the painmt company doesn't stack up against paint companies like ben moore, pratt, c2, sherwin, and even ppg. they just have anything like duration, aura, accolade as far as i know. i always found them to be like frazee, more professional coating than anything else, i.e. production lines.


Your talking out your azz dude! You don't even know their products. BTW vista sells BM


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Your talking out your azz dude! You don't even know their products. BTW vista sells BM
> 
> The way you have displayed Conklin Paints here on the forums, I would never shop there. your looking more and more pathetic.


Are u serious? I saw you here last year, you were a nice guy. I don't know if you are joking or being an asshole. i have used vista paints before on a job with my father, but it's been a long time. And as far as tech data goes, I don't see any vista paints that can stack up against duration, aura, accolade,e ct? So please, instead of personally insulting me, show me what vista paints compare to these, and as far as my competitor goes, I'll let my service speak for itself.

And they way u are displaying yourself to me right now, I'd never recommend you to a home owner with your bad attitude. i thought you were a cool guy, I must have been wrong.


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

Vista Duratone vs P&L Redseal, the % of titanium dioxide is 13.8% in Duratone, the % in the redseal is 20%.

As far as solids go, Duratone has more, and I haven't gotten to the resins yet.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Yup! Every vendor has there good and bad lines of coatings, even BM and PL have them. They all also have quality line. I've played with most paint manufacture paints here on the west coast, even dow and sika. When a supplier start with the, better than..... BS, you lose me. Because I have years and thousands of gals, of applying these products, I know through experience which product can withstand the test of time. and when someone speaks out of there azz, contradicting my experience, I see it for what they are. BSers, just trying to sell there products. 

I'm not asking for your lead, nor have I ever had one. I'll just keep trucking my paint up there as I have been.


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Yup! Every vendor has there good and bad lines of coatings, even BM and PL have them. They all also have quality line. I've played with most paint manufacture paints here on the west coast, even dow and sika. When a supplier start with the, better than..... BS, you lose me. Because I have years and thousands of gals, of applying these products, I know through experience which product can withstand the test of time. and when someone speaks out of there azz, contradicting my experience, I see it for what they are. BSers, just trying to sell there products.
> 
> I'm not asking for your lead, nor have I ever had one. I'll just keep trucking my paint up there as I have been.


I have no idea what you mean by lead. You go ahead and truck your paint up here big boy, take away food from my table. I will always recommend to go with local painters because they will have more experience with stains and painting in the mountains than you. I still think Vista can't touch the HIGHER end of Ben Moore, SW, PPG, Fine Paints of Europe, P&L, ect. ONCE AGAIN, SHOW ME. Oh, and when a customer wants you to paint their house up here, and it's the middle of october where it drops below zero, your precious little Vista paint will freeze, and I'll be seeing the homeowners in our store the next spring saying that their Vista paint fell off the building (because Vista doesn't have low temp paints!)

Once again, I never have said anything that warrented your personal insults, I DO HAVE PAINTING EXP. with my father, and I have my own personal opinions. I personally believe that as far as larger paint companies in the biz go, Ben Moore is the best, bar none. With P&L close behind them. Sorry, but Vista has a reputation of being a production line paint in So Cal. That may have changed recently, but people will have to be proven wrong for that to change. I still can't believe you are the same guy I met in our store last year. Why did you become an asshole all of a sudden?


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Entertainment 

Back to the OP, 
I'd go with Dunns, JMO


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## robladd (Nov 22, 2010)

If vista is so bad of a paint can you please explain this web sight. vistapaintbenmoore.com

Got to be a good reason cause there is a boat load of them on the west coast.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

hammerheart14 said:


> Why did you become an asshole all of a sudden?


It's not all of a sudden, it's a gift!

Now both of you quit arguing with each other, or at least do it without name calling, thanks!


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## sagebrush123 (Mar 11, 2011)

hey robladd- look forward to hearing about your paint choices and results..maybe post us some photos of this mancave.


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

robladd said:


> If vista is so bad of a paint can you please explain this web sight. vistapaintbenmoore.com
> 
> Got to be a good reason cause there is a boat load of them on the west coast.


I NEVER said they were bad, I just found their paint (the two or three times I have used it in my life) to have not been as good as SOME other paints. No big deal. They probally are a much better paint now that they are in bed with BM. I just couldn't find anything of their paints to be on the same level as Aura or Duration.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

RCP :lol:

Hammer you used them 2, 3 times! :laughing: was it in your dad kitchen. 

Now I'm off to go get a 40' catch ya later


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Dunn Edwards vs Frazee?

How bout the Green Berets vs the Spetznaz, now that's more like it:thumbup:


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

ewingpainting.net said:


> RCP :lol:
> 
> Hammer you used them 2, 3 times! :laughing: was it in your dad kitchen.
> 
> Now I'm off to go get a 40' catch ya later


GO ahead and disrespect me, you don't know me. I have done a few jobs with my dad on paint jobs in escondido, ca, and they were on legit houses. And we used Vista. This was long ago, and I am a son of a full time, EXCELLENT painter. And as far at the 40 foot ladder goes, i still believe that any painter up here worth his salt, should have a 40. I don't know where this attitude change came from, but I am disappointed, as I thought you were cool with me, and respected me. So why are you giving me ****> Why do you not believe that at one point in my life I have used Vista? At one point, they were a cheaper paint line used for large commercial jobs. i haven't used the paint since the 90's. If they changed and are better now, good. I am just stating from my own personal exp. But as far as data sheets go, they still can't touch the ultra premium lines by BM, P&L, and SW. ONCE AGAIN big shot, show me.


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

ewingpainting.net said:


> RCP :lol:
> 
> Hammer you used them 2, 3 times! :laughing: was it in your dad kitchen.
> 
> Now I'm off to go get a 40' catch ya later


And hey, next time you're up here, I want you to come by my store and talk to me, because I want this crap solved, and I would appreciate you retracting your statement about me misrepresentating Conklin paints on this forum, because I take my job seriously, i love what I do, and I am good at what i do. And never, at one point this year, have I said anything that was unprofessional or rude on this forum. last year, I was new, and too eager to prove myself, and i WHOLE HEARTILY admit this to everybody here.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

I'm not gonna have a data sheet war with ya!  

I do know through applying the products I have experience with, they have the quality and longevity, stacking up against those paint manufactures you speak so high of, as some has not.

Here's the thing, not all paint manufactures have a handle on ALL their products. Meaning they might be supreme on one line, ok on some and sucking on another. I have found that most paint manufactures have their star product, just an example, Frazee - Duritec, Sherwin Williams - Loxon, Vista - Weathermaster, Ben - over priced Aura. A great applicator/salesman can determine what product is best for a surface, knowing it can come from any one of the manufactures product. So to say as a whole manufacture sucks or is less than the other is asinineing. Because, what one product can not stack against the competitors product, there is another that the competitors product could not stack up against their product. I have found that for the most part, Vista Paints carefree line, acryglo, duratone, has stacked up. You can't takes ones experience away. If you painted 2 houses with Vista Coverall line or breezewall, which were designed for tract/commercial, I could see how you could think what you think. I'm not even saying Vista is the best, because I don't believe one manufacture can be, but I do believe they all have their best products. 

Knowing the products and what they were designed for, can greatly help ones understanding of what is comparable.


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

Just to clarify, I I never said Vista paints sucks. And i was very impressed with the Duratone product.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

ewingpainting.net said:


> I'm not gonna have a data sheet war with ya!
> 
> I do know through applying the products I have experience with, they have the quality and longevity, stacking up against those paint manufactures you speak so high of, as some has not.
> 
> ...


Damn, that was a long apology:blink:


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

That was a rebuttal not an apology.


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## robladd (Nov 22, 2010)

Mr. President, Mr. President, Do you know their products and capabilities?


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

When is the dinner and hug- to -make -things- better date?


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

I did however edit my post, in respects to Conklyn, Hammer needs to edit his if he doesn't want it on the boards. I do think he spoke about a paint manufacture without knowing their product. I wouldn't talk crap about P&L cause I never used it. Because I only know of 2 distributors that sale P&L, both not being convenient. I would love to play with it if I had the opportunity.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

TJ Paint said:


> When is the dinner and hug- to -make -things- better date?


Will there be cheesecake?


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Will there be cheesecake?


No, but there will be a match with "Rock em-sock em robots" :yes: Some of you may be to young to remember that toy. :whistling2:


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

That's cooool, I'm so there. Gonna kick some azzzz


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)




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## robladd (Nov 22, 2010)

Did a face to face with dunns and frazee this morning.

Frazees Aro Thane a fresh sample right next to Dunns WB Syn Lustro. 

I will let both of these samples bake in the sun for the next 1 1/2 months on the southside of my man/cave.

The average heat during this time of summer is 114 deg everyday.

Off the shelf these products are mid 50's
Contractor prices start in the upper 40's.


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

ewingpainting.net said:


> I did however edit my post, in respects to Conklyn, Hammer needs to edit his if he doesn't want it on the boards. I do think he spoke about a paint manufacture without knowing their product. I wouldn't talk crap about P&L cause I never used it. Because I only know of 2 distributors that sale P&L, both not being convenient. I would love to play with it if I had the opportunity.



Ok, I don't know how many freaking times I have to say this, I used Vista paints in the 90's and not since. I looked over the data sheets recently, and by THAT ALONE, I summed up my opinion. If I pissed you off for doing that, I am sorry. Just don't go promoting the guy down the street, when I don't think you've ever been there, OR say that you wouldn't work with me because of what I post on the damn internet. As far as what I do in real life, I let my customer service speak for itself. These are opinions, and I am tired of fighting over OPINIONS.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Who's fighting?


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## Santino55 (Mar 8, 2012)

For Nevada and Arizona I would use 2 coats Sher-Cryl For Cali Pro-Cryl Primer Pro Industrial 0 voc.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

robladd said:


> Did a face to face with dunns and frazee this morning.
> 
> Frazees Aro Thane a fresh sample right next to Dunns WB Syn Lustro.
> 
> ...


Update?


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## robladd (Nov 22, 2010)

I'm at JFK next stop Paris then to W Africa. Went with Dunn Edwards, put the Frazee
sample right next to the DE.

At that time Frazee was still in the R & D of their
new product and wanted to go with the proven track record of DE.

For the money Vista is hard to beat at about half price. Also did Glidden Gripper with Premium Ext. right in the middle of Dunn Edwards/ Frazee
and Vista.

Talk about spendie check out this price for 5 hour energy at JFK. and to think I thought P & L Accolade was high.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Thats like $4.00 an hour! :jester:

Aww dude! Africa?!! Have a hell of a good time.:thumbsup:


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