# Paint removal suggestions? Lap siding



## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

I'm looking at a job with lap siding. Paint needs to be removed completely on two sides. It's only 3 yrs old, so it doesn't have a lot of paint on it. I was looking at this sander, but have never used it. I do not want to put a "wave" on the building. http://www.cpoworkshop.com/specialty_tools/power_paint_removers/7403.html Another option I considered was a heat gun. I will post some photos tommorow. Thanks


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

http://www.paintshaver.com/


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

That looks like a nice tool. Have you looked at the paint shaver pro? 
http://www.paintshaver.com/paintshaver.html

I have never used one but a few people on this board have them.

BB, don't you have one?


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

lol, too slow I was.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

That does look like a nice tool. Thanks for the links guys. I have approx 4000 sq ft to strip.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Workaholic said:


> That looks like a nice tool. Have you looked at the paint shaver pro?
> http://www.paintshaver.com/paintshaver.html
> 
> I have never used one but a few people on this board have them.
> ...


No, I was asking about them and would like one. On the right job, I think it would pay for itself. Hook it up to a good vac with a dust deputy inline.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

bikerboy said:


> No, I was asking about them and would like one. On the right job, I think it would pay for itself. Hook it up to a good vac with a dust deputy inline.


That's right. I like them too but have never tried one much less own one. Looks like a great tool and no doubt would be worth factoring the cost into a few jobs if you had the work for one.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

I think with 4000 sq ft to do, it would pay for itself. I am curious about how long the blades last?


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## BC_Painter (Feb 14, 2010)

Woodland said:


> I think with 4000 sq ft to do, it would pay for itself. I am curious about how long the blades last?


Around 5,000 sq ft


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Really? That seems like a lot for one blade.


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## BC_Painter (Feb 14, 2010)

Woodland said:


> Really? That seems like a lot for one blade.


I thought so too, but I would start out with some replacements anyways :thumbsup:

Pulled from the site 



> "The replaceable tungsten carbide blades will strip up to 5,000 square feet."


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## BC_Painter (Feb 14, 2010)

BC_Painter said:


> I thought so too, but I would start out with some replacements anyways :thumbsup:
> 
> Pulled from the site


at 50 bucks for blades or 230 for diamond tipped blades they better last a while ^_^


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Thanks. I missed that one. Anyone know how many sq ft per hr a guy could do with this tool? Right now I'm estimating 20-25 sq ft hr. Allowing 200 hrs to do 4000 ft.


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## BC_Painter (Feb 14, 2010)

Woodland said:


> Thanks. I missed that one. Anyone know how many sq ft per hr a guy could do with this tool? Right now I'm estimating 20-25 sq ft hr. Allowing 200 hrs to do 4000 ft.





> The Paint Shaver® Pro strips 1 square foot of lead or regular paint from clapboards, shingles, or any flat surface in 20 seconds.


pulled again from the site :thumbsup:


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## BC_Painter (Feb 14, 2010)

Of course there is downtime for moving ladders and stuff


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

1 sq ft in 20 seconds almost sounds too good to be true, be cool if it is that fast though.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

It is pricey but looks sweet. A blade every 5000sqft at 50 bucks. Still sounds like a money maker to me.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

i've looked at these for along time. the thing I see that could be annoying is if you have a surface that aint completely straight. What happens then? you eat up the substrate? Sure you can adjust the depth, but what about warped boards?


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## BC_Painter (Feb 14, 2010)

TJ Paint said:


> i've looked at these for along time. the thing I see that could be annoying is if you have a surface that aint completely straight. What happens then? you eat up the substrate? Sure you can adjust the depth, but what about warped boards?


I assume it works like a planer, where a slight bow it will just work across, the height different being minor on the blades surface, but if it's SO bad that the planing would be an issue i'd be interested in making it straight anyways for the same amount of work

win win


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Don't forget to factor in the sanding AFTER the paint is removed. And the blades are 3 sided. You can turn them to get a fresh cutting surface.


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

and set the nails.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

*A couple photos*


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

Woodland said:


>


HOLY GOD MOTHER OF MARY FOR THE SAKES OF JEEEEBUS!!!!

KILL IT WITH FIRE!!!!

Sweet rest bro! Get paid!


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Yeah, looks like fun huh? Hours and hours of sanding. It is new siding (3 yrs old) and luckily not much paint on it so it should come off fairly easy. If I do get the job, It will be done off scaffolding on the two bad sides and I will use a lift on the other two.


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

how the hell is that 3yrs old? It has at least 2 different paint jobs on there as it sits. Someone is pulling your leg man.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

Looks like the kind of job I run into and folks want a warrantee. That job will never hold paint - I can tell there is all sorts of water ingress getting back behind those clapboards - it will never hold paint no matter how you prep it.


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## painterman (Jun 2, 2007)

might want to address the moisture drive problem before you invest any time into painting.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Paint Shaver IMHO = PITA Good for small projects, but you'll be there forever on that one. 

Maybe look into cob blasting. Would probably be more expensive, but would definitely be faster, and give a good profile for the paint. Definitely address the moisture issue and fix if possible.

Looking at the photos again, that paint seems to be coming off pretty easily, maybe a chemical strip would be the quickest.


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## T200 (Nov 11, 2007)

We've used the Porter Cable
http://www.cpoworkshop.com/specialty_tools/power_paint_removers/7403.html
but here's the problem:
Latex is soft and sticks to the sanding pads -- and when it gets hot, it's even worse.

It looks like the paint shaver pro might not have that problem, with blades, but nail heads would be an issue.

Another issue: It doesn't look like it would remove paint from the horizontal bottom edge of the siding -- only the flat vertical surfaces. We repainted a house where something like this had been used--but it was old (oil paint at the base). Whoever stripped it didn't do the bottom (horizontal) edges and it peeled extensively a few years later -- they had us take care of all that peeling (hand scraping) and repaint.

The blasting suggestion might be the way to go.

I've used Peel Away 1 on cedar shakes and it worked well, but that's an expensive and time-consuming way to go for that much siding.

Heat would probably work, too, for that application:
http://www.silentpaintremover.com/
Quick-Time Video:
http://www.silentpaintremover.com/i/movies/SPR19.mov

but it's not fast


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

I dont know, going by what I was told.... They replaced the siding on it 3 years ago. Theres only one paint job on it. Primed with Zinser. Which product he wasnt sure. The guy said they brought a couple different paint reps. out when it started to peel almost right away. The moisture content was 18. When my paint rep looked at it the other day he mentioned the Mill Glaze on the siding.


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## BC_Painter (Feb 14, 2010)

Woodland said:


> I dont know, going by what I was told.... They replaced the siding on it 3 years ago. Theres only one paint job on it. Primed with Zinser. Which product he wasnt sure. The guy said they brought a couple different paint reps. out when it started to peel almost right away. The moisture content was 18. When my paint rep looked at it the other day he mentioned the Mill Glaze on the siding.



The picture looks deceiving then, it looks like it was badly peeling previously and then repainted after a scrape.

Is this just the sheet peeling?


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Its just the photo.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

If I had to take a stab at the cause....Mill glaze, combined with wet wood on application, combined with over applying product. The trifecta of disaster.

Could be improper installation. I know with some lap sidings they will actually shim them slightly so there is a place for moisture to escape. This siding looks different though, so im clueless. Maybe have a good siding guy come check it out and see if everything is as it should be, before determining that it was an actual product failure.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

1: looking at the picture, the 2nd board from the bottom has been scraped and painted over. So this looks like more than one coat has been applied. 

2: looking at the picture, there is no air vents or evidence of adequate ventilation on that wall. Doesn't look like there are any eaves either where ventilation would most likely be on a building like this. That's a large building and will generate moisture and it has to come out somewhere, looks like its pushing through the siding and taking the coating with it. I'm not saying improper prep didn't contribute, it very well might have.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

NCPaint1 said:


> If I had to take a stab at the cause....Mill glaze, combined with wet wood on application, combined with over applying product. The trifecta of disaster.
> 
> Could be improper installation. I know with some lap sidings they will actually shim them slightly so there is a place for moisture to escape. This siding looks different though, so im clueless. Maybe have a good siding guy come check it out and see if everything is as it should be, before determining that it was an actual product failure.


Good point. I have looked a the Wedge Vents before and even have a box in my shop I never used. http://wedgevent.com/ As for proper siding installation? Not really my area of expertise. It was brought up when the paint rep was out there last week. Bringing a sider out sounds like a good idea.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

TJ Paint said:


> 1: looking at the picture, the 2nd board from the bottom has been scraped and painted over. So this looks like more than one coat has been applied.
> 
> 2: looking at the picture, there is no air vents or evidence of adequate ventilation on that wall. Doesn't look like there are any eaves either where ventilation would most likely be on a building like this. That's a large building and will generate moisture and it has to come out somewhere, looks like its pushing through the siding and taking the coating with it. I'm not saying improper prep didn't contribute, it very well might have.


Good eye, and I totally appreciate the feedback but what your seeing is touch-up from the painter who also did the siding. I am here for apint removal suggestions, not to debate how many times the building has been painted. The siding is only 3 years old. He claims it was primed first. Looking at the chips I cant see primer. Only one coat of paint. When it started peeling, the painter came back and spot primed and did some touch up. Everywhere he did touch up is holding up fine.


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## clammer (Feb 13, 2009)

This is not a one paint shaver job you need at least 2-3 men working with them to finish this project in any timeline. Using a paint shaver is a physically demanding,dirty job and takes a lot longer than the removal rate they give you.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Thanks again for all the replies. I went by the job again today and met with another paint rep. Didnt get much advice as far as paint removal. I'm still struggling over this one. Paint removal is not my thing. Even with 27 years in the painting industry, I feel like Im over my head on this one and could be setting myself up for a disaster right in the peak part of painting season. If Im not sure how to go about the paint removal, how qualified am I for this job? I did price scaffolding for the job and I've figured in 100 man hours to strip each side with should be plenty. Despite the appearance in the photos, its one layer of latex paint and a few places where the last painter came back and did touch up. I do feel with a heat gun it would come off pretty easy. But, then again...I am not a paint removal expert. I usually avoid the peelers. My average house is 10-15 years old with HardiPlank. Not sure if I should walk away from this one? A wise old man once told me... "I never lost money on a job I didnt get"


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

here is a job we did not long ago using the paint shaver - great tool but does take some work, before and after using the shaver.








Pat


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Very nice. Looks like you do some good work. Thanks for posting the photos. Do you think 100 hrs is a reasonable estimate to strip one side on the photos I posted? Working on scaffolding.


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## VanDamme (Feb 13, 2010)

I like how you returned the edge of the windows w/window color. Usually they just get faced off.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

VanDamme said:


> I like how you returned the edge of the windows w/window color. Usually they just get faced off.


Yeah, I think it looks sorta cheap when windows and trim are just faced off.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

TJ Paint said:


> Yeah, I think it looks sorta cheap when windows and trim are just faced off.


Yep, but then again thats probably something that most homeowners dont notice, and could be why someone wins with a lower bid over you. Education of your potential clients is probably your best selling tool :thumbsup:


I still think cob blasting the siding would be the fastest way to strip it. You should be able to rent the equipment, or steer the homeowner to have that part handled by another company.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

Woodland said:


> Very nice. Looks like you do some good work. Thanks for posting the photos. Do you think 100 hrs is a reasonable estimate to strip one side on the photos I posted? Working on scaffolding.


I dunno on the 100hrs, are you talking one guy? if so that is pushing it. I would say two weeks for two guys. You should be able to strip it down with the paintshaver, finish sand it with random orbital and have it ready for primer in that time. 

pat


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Pat, that's 160 man hours, you think he was to generous?


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

NCPaint1 said:


> Pat, that's 160 man hours, you think he was to generous?


I dunno lol - it just looks like allot of work to do in 100 man hours. I never heard of cob blasting before so I googled it. Seems to be more for log cabins and stuff like that.

Pat


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

PatsPainting said:


> I dunno lol - it just looks like allot of work to do in 100 man hours. I never heard of cob blasting before so I googled it. Seems to be more for log cabins and stuff like that.
> 
> Pat


They use it a lot for log homes. There are more abrasive materials to strip paint.....crushed walnut shells I believe. Works like a champ, and no damage to the wood like sandblasting would do. Plus the siding would have the proper profile for painting after its blasted......no sanding.


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## LOSTinDETAILS (Jun 17, 2009)

TJ Paint said:


> Yeah, I think it looks sorta cheap when windows and trim are just faced off.


:yes:


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Thanks guys. I never heard of Cobb Blasting either til I Googled it last night and found the same as Pat. All on log homes. The two sides are approx 2730 ft each, I was estimating 100 hrs per side for a total of 200 hrs to strip a total of 5460 ft both sides. One man. I dont have workmans comp so if I hired someone it would have to be thru a temp service and that makes me nervous. Maybe I should walk away?


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

I might not be doing this one after all. Somebody bid the job for $10,000  The scaffolding alone is 10 grand!  And the only way I will do it is on scafflding. I have no desire to spend 200+ hrs on a ladder or in a lift with a Paint Shaver. :no: I wont get into my rates, but the materials alone were $4000. Not a problem, other jobs are rolling in now finally. Kind of a bummer though. I was really looking forward to spending a solid month of hot summer days doing paint removal. :whistling2:


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Yeah, I'm not worried about it. Just got another call too bid an exterior. :thumbsup: Built in 1990 :yes: HardiPlank :thumbup: My kinda work :yes:


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Good for you. 

One door closes......and another one opens.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

bikerboy said:


> Good for you.
> 
> One door closes......and another one opens.


Yes it does. Funny how that works out. Thanks Biker.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Woodland said:


> I might not be doing this one after all. Somebody bid the job for $10,000  The scaffolding alone is 10 grand!  And the only way I will do it is on scafflding. I have no desire to spend 200+ hrs on a ladder or in a lift with a Paint Shaver. :no: I wont get into my rates, but the materials alone were $4000. Not a problem, other jobs are rolling in now finally. Kind of a bummer though. I was really looking forward to spending a solid month of hot summer days doing paint removal. :whistling2:



At least you'll know what you're getting into if another one like this one comes up. You'll have all the info, products, and techniques so you can educate new customers with similar types of work. :thumbsup:


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Cob Blasting

Heres a quick video showing a log strip. This one is using glass as the blast media....probably a bit of overkill IMO for the job in the video, works fine but leaves the surface rougher after the strip. They use all sorts of different materials to strip, Corn cob, walnut shells, sand, glass....


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

NCPaint1 said:


> At least you'll know what you're getting into if another one like this one comes up. You'll have all the info, products, and techniques so you can educate new customers with similar types of work. :thumbsup:


Very true. I do know the guy I have been talking to wants me to do the job, but he only manages the building and says they dont have it in their budget. Who knows? Maybe next year? From what he says, I dont see him going with the $10,000 bid either. Thats how they wound up with a 3 yr old paint job that looks 20 yrs old to begin with. He did however refer me to another job yesterday that I went and bid today and also got. :thumbup:


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Thanks for posting the video NC. We have a few log homes around here too and that looks like something I might check into a little more.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Woodland said:


> Thanks for posting the video NC. We have a few log homes around here too and that looks like something I might check into a little more.



Best bet on stripping, find a good company that you can sub that part to. Have them strip and prep, and your crew finish.

The equipment required for the blasting isn't a cheap investment for "occasional" jobs. The air compressor needed has to move around 200-300CFM of air...expensive....then the actual setup is probably another $6000 plus. 

There is good money in stripping and sealing, but the overhead is high, and very labor intensive.

Customer/buddy of mine owns a log home 3k sq ft'ish two story. Estimate to strip and finish was around 35k.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

NCPaint1 said:


> Best bet on stripping, find a good company that you can sub that part to. Have them strip and prep, and your crew finish.
> 
> The equipment required for the blasting isn't a cheap investment for "occasional" jobs. The air compressor needed has to move around 200-300CFM of air...expensive....then the actual setup is probably another $6000 plus.
> 
> ...


I really doubt I will do too many of the older homes. I actually pursue the newer homes on exteriors. Probably 90% of my exteriors in the past have always been 10-15 yrs old and I always stayed busy sticking with those. And now with the new RRP rules, I'm even less intrested in the older houses.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Woodland said:


> I really doubt I will do too many of the older homes. I actually pursue the newer homes on exteriors. Probably 90% of my exteriors in the past have always been 10-15 yrs old and I always stayed busy sticking with those. And now with the new RRP rules, I'm even less intrested in the older houses.


yep, me too. Newer homes usually are better profit for me anyway. On older homes, its hard to fully quantify prep time, too many variables. And now rrp as well. No thanks.


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## Charisb (Jun 9, 2009)

*media blasting*

If you're still gonna do the job, you might consider crushed glass blasting with a fine grit (70/100) glass media. Works kind of like a bunch of tiny surgical steel knives - does a great job of "cutting" off very stubborn paint or other coatings without leaving much mess behind. You might have to do a little finish sanding to get rid of any fuzzing but on siding, that won't be much. Plus, you'll get points for being environmentally friendly - crushed glass is made from recycled materials that skip the landfill altogether. Video here of the difference between cob & crushed blass media....it's on logs so results on siding will be less severe, but the difference speaks for itself...

http://www.youtube.com/sashco1936#p/u/8/n05Su7cDqiQ

Yes - media blasting is usually more expensive up front (especially if you buy the equipment). But if you consider you don't have to pay for chemicals, worry about run off and don't have to wait for dry time, it can sometimes be the better alternative.


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