# aura is killing me help



## Dunbar Painting (Mar 19, 2010)

Well this it he first time I have used Aura exterior, I usually just use General Paint products.

My client is adamant about it, and the BM sales rep sold him on his entire exterior in Aura.

So, first pale sprays onto shingles quite nice, back roll it, beautiful, wait, then my sprayer clogs. (This happened twice the day before, but I didn't realize it was the paint, I thought it was filters needing cleaning).

So I call the sales rep and he says buy the extender, and I said EFF that, give it to me like you should have to begin with, Ive already lost hours on this job screwing with my sprayer and this stupid paint.

so I add the extender, and then it starts running down the wall. I try to back roll it but it sets up in minutes and I am unable to back roll it before it is already messing the paint job up.

Finally, I call the sales rep again and he says don't back roll it and use lower pressure. So I did for the 2nd coat. End result, now my client wants a third coat without extender.

So I hate this product, I am raging and pissed! GRRRRRRRRRRR what do I do?


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

You bite the bullet and spray the third coat, you don't want to have to fight this guy. Let him know you want the best result.You will feel better in the end.Also try not to spray in the sun.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Also set your ladders up and do some ladder jumping, have a helper mover the ladders and help you speed up the spraying so you can keep a wet edge.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Its not the paint. Aura is a very good product. It does dry quick and I highly recommend the extender. Especially for the final coat. I dont see how the paint is making your filters clog. Its not like it's Catalized. Did you strain it? What size tip are you using? I just sprayed 40 gallons without the tip clogging on single time. If the customer is insisting on a third coat, I would ask the rep to come by the job. I also would not do a 3rd coat.


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## Dunbar Painting (Mar 19, 2010)

Thanks,


This is basically how I had it set up. The whole side had ladders.

Just spray it all and back roll it immediately?

What do I do about it clogging my sprayer


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## Dunbar Painting (Mar 19, 2010)

The tip is a 5 17

it was like 13 degrees not sunny

but my sprayer kept losing pressure.. the sales rep said it WAS the paint. After I put extender in the sprayer worked, but the paint finish result sucked.


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## Dunbar Painting (Mar 19, 2010)

how much extender do you put in per pail? (in ml)


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

LOL, when I saw the 13 degrees my first thought was WTF? Your painting in 13 degrees? I guess you must be in Canada and going by Celcius? Eh? What kind of pump you have? I was using a 517 on a Graco 395 with 100' of hose and it sprayed great. Also, how much extender did you use? I used 4 oz per gallon and an electric mixer.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Dunbar Painting said:


> Well this it he first time I have used Aura exterior, I usually just use General Paint products.
> 
> My client is adamant about it, and the BM sales rep sold him on his entire exterior in Aura.
> 
> ...


that sucks man. I feel your pain. 3 coats on a premium wonder product. Was it windy? Did you have somebody helping to backroll immediately? I haven't used aura ext because of the quick setup time. And hearing your problem, it sounds like I'm avoiding frustration by avoiding aura.


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## Dunbar Painting (Mar 19, 2010)

I use a 5 17 on a graco 395 highboy with 50 feet of hose

I had no problem with the first 4 houses I did this summer using General Paint Products, but as soon as I started in with aura I have had non stop problems with the sprayer.


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## Dunbar Painting (Mar 19, 2010)

I had one guy moving ladders, me spraying, and one guy backrolling.

I went up a ladder sprayed, backroller went up backrolled, then ladders moved.

In the time between me working my way down a 32foot spraying, and the backroller going up the paint had already set


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Losing pressure is probably air in the line. The clogging was probably from the paint sitting in the sun ( doesnt have to be hot out ) uncovered. Little bits of crap build in the paint ( even though its strained ) and clog your tip.

Put the bucket in the shade whenever possible, and I like to wet a towel and drape it over the 5.

Do that for all your spraying, not just Aura, its a good habit to get into.


The extender shouldnt change the application property of the coating. So saying it was runny after adding it surprises me. I dont know if you did or not, but do not add water to Aura....even the smallest amount can change the way the product applies.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

It really is good paint. Probably the best stuff I've ever used. Just takes a little getting used to. Is it Satin or Flat? I was using Satin and could see Flat drying even quicker. Have a strategy on any big areas so you can keep a wet edge. On exteriors I always have a helper back rolling so I can keep moving. I also use 18" rollers as opposed to 9". Lay it all off in the same direction.


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## Dunbar Painting (Mar 19, 2010)

Woodland said:


> LOL, when I saw the 13 degrees my first thought was WTF? Your painting in 13 degrees? I guess you must be in Canada and going by Celcius? Eh? What kind of pump you have? I was using a 517 on a Graco 395 with 100' of hose and it sprayed great. Also, how much extender did you use? I used 4 oz per gallon and an electric mixer.



Well the extender bottle has its info in mililiters, yet I was given instructions in oz which is hard to deal with when you are covered in paint, in the middle of spraying trying to figure **** out... 

anyway after looking up the converter, I see I used too much extender, however the sales rep said 10oz per pail. I used about 7.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

did you back roll both coats or just the first?


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## Dunbar Painting (Mar 19, 2010)

thanks for all the advice everyone

I am going to bite the bullet, spray a third coat, then do the rest of the house 2 coats

I am going to half the dosage of extender

going to make sure the bucket cant dry at all

going to have 2 back rollers to keep on top of ****

InsyaAllah it works out!


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

I really don't understand a paint that needs to use an extender, for one thing you already pay three prices for the paint, and then they leave it up to us to pay more to make their overpriced paint work.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

You guy's get ready because SW is gong to the water based pigments, so there will be a learning curve.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Dunbar Painting said:


> I see I used too much extender, however the sales rep said 10oz per pail. I used about 7.


I'm not an Aura expert, its new for me too but 7 oz of extender seems like a lot. I added 4 oz per gallon and it out worked great. Also, if its really setting up too fast it might be better to paint horizontally? Couldnt say for sure without seeing what your painting.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

So this is mostly a flashing problem right?


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

johnpaint said:


> I really don't understand a paint that needs to use an extender, for one thing you already pay three prices for the paint, and then they leave it up to us to pay more to make their overpriced paint work.


yeah, thats why I just haven't attempted using it. I go for moorlife/guard. I know it works well and never have any problems. Thats money for me.

I'd try some aura for trim first and know I got the product figured out before I'll consider using it on siding or larger walls.


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## Dunbar Painting (Mar 19, 2010)

it is a lot of problems. i am hoping it can work


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

I get a kick out of their "contractors discount"


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

TJ Paint said:


> yeah, thats why I just haven't attempted using it. I go for moorlife/guard. I know it works well and never have any problems. Thats money for me.
> 
> I'd try some aura for trim first and know I got the product figured out before I'll consider using it on siding or larger walls.


It's funny but all the old stand bys like moore guard, Super Paint or whatever was say the best paint a company had say 15 years ago is still the best to work with.I think of all paints I have used SP is the one that is the most user friendly for me.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

ewingpainting.net said:


> I get a kick out of their "contractors discount"


Everyone sells for different prices, markets dictate price. :thumbsup:


I sell Exterior Aura for $49.99 any color any finish


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> Everyone sells for different prices, markets dictate price. :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> I sell Exterior Aura for $49.99 any color any finish


Twenty gallon for one little house 1,000.00, I will rush out right now and get some.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

How long has Aura been out now? Do we really know if it will out last the old stand bys?


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

johnpaint said:


> Twenty gallon for one little house 1,000.00, I will rush out right now and get some.


You can get my address off my website :whistling2: :thumbup:


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

ewingpainting.net said:


> I get a kick out of their "contractors discount"


Discount?  LOL they gave me a whole 5%  I really do like the product, but most customers wont want to spend the extra $$$$$ for the upgrade. Just like when I tried pushing Duration a couple years ago. Finally gave up and just went back to pushing Super Paint. BM also has "Ben" out now which I'm wanting to try out. Not positive, but I think they are getting rid of Moore Guard. Dont quote me on that one though. I've been wrong before. I think.


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## Dunbar Painting (Mar 19, 2010)

I used 8oz of extender in 5 gallons, not 1... and got running drip from hell syndrome


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

johnpaint said:


> How long has Aura been out now? Do we really know if it will out last the old stand bys?


California has had it for at least 5 years or more. The rest of the country I believe its been 2-3years. They have been working on the technology for the colorants/coatings since the mid 90's. They wouldnt put that much $$$$ into R&D, testing and marketing if it wasnt a great product.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Dunbar Painting said:


> I used 8oz of extender in 5 gallons, not 1... and got running drip from hell syndrome


I havent had a drip in spraying in maybe 10 years, how do you get drips?


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Woodland said:


> Not positive, but I think they are getting rid of Moore Guard. Dont quote me on that one though. I've been wrong before.


Add another one to the list :jester: Moorgard isnt going anywhere :thumbsup:


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> California has had it for at least 5 years or more. The rest of the country I believe its been 2-3years. They have been working on the technology for the colorants/coatings since the mid 90's. They wouldnt put that much $$$$ into R&D, testing and marketing if it wasnt a great product.


yeah, but like the drug companies they want us to pay their bill for an untested paint.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Dunbar Painting said:


> I used 8oz of extender in 5 gallons, not 1... and got running drip from hell syndrome


Wow, I went with way more. 4 per gallon... 20 oz per 5. I think its just a learning curve. Paint is changing. I remember when the latex enamels first started getting popular and replacing oil. First time I tried brushing that stuff I said screw this, I'm sticking with oil. Hardly ever use oil now. :no:Go figure.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

I bet you anything that if it last even one year longer than SP I would eat my hat.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

johnpaint said:


> yeah, but like the drug companies they want us to pay their bill for an untested paint.


They're the only ones with this type of product that i'm aware of. Until theres competition, it is what it is.

Its like buying gas for your car....you dont wanna pay the high price per gallon? Ok whats the alternative? You can ride a bicycle, walk, or hitch hike.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

johnpaint said:


> I bet you anything that if it last even one year longer than SP I would eat my hat.


Cool. Cowboy hat or ball cap? I'm going out to my shop to do samples now. Will you still be here in 10 or 15 years when my experiment is done? :jester:


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Woodland said:


> Wow, I went with way more. 4 per gallon... 20 oz per 5. I think its just a learning curve. Paint is changing. I remember when the latex enamels first started getting popular and replacing oil. First time I tried brushing that stuff I said screw this, I'm sticking with oil. Hardly ever use oil now. :no:Go figure.


But it's kind of driving a new car, you get use to it. I grew up with the old timers adjusting paint to suit the day, or material the were painting. Most painters now think they don't have to still do that, but they are wrong. Some of you young guy's come to work for me for a week and I bet after that you will look at paint a diff way.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Way back in the day we used to have an actual tint that was extender. Grahams I believe had it. Certain colors and products called for a certain amount of "extender" in the formula ( I think that was when the full 100% acrylics just came out ). Eventually they reformulated the product so adding the extender was no longer necessary.


Im actually working on a way to add extender for Aura "in store," for customers who want it. I'll fill a colorant canister with it, and add 1oz or so per gallon, then record it on the label for future reference. I'll call it X tint or something like that.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Woodland said:


> Cool. Cowboy hat or ball cap? I'm going out to my shop to do samples now. Will you still be here in 10 or 15 years when my experiment is done? :jester:


But see that is just it, They know people have a short memory, and want care after a couple years, but they have your 50 bucks in the bank.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> Way back in the day we used to have an actual tint that was extender. Grahams I believe had it. Certain colors and products called for a certain amount of "extender" in the formula ( I think that was when the full 100% acrylics just came out ). Eventually they reformulated the product so adding the extender was no longer necessary.
> 
> 
> Im actually working on a way to add extender for Aura "in store," for customers who want it. I'll fill a colorant canister with it, and add 1oz or so per gallon, then record it on the label for future reference. I'll call it X tint or something like that.


well let me asked you, are they using the same glue in Aura as their other paints?


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

johnpaint said:


> well let me asked you, are they using the same glue in Aura as their other paints?


As in resin?


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> As in resin?


yes, is it the same as the other exteriors BM has?


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

The numbers they come up with today on warrantees crack me up. I dont buy the "Lifetime" thing. Or even the 25 yrs with Super Paint. I know SP lasts a does last a long time though. Holds up much better than Acrolite or Rodda's 909 or 911. I've seen some of my houses 10 yrs later still holding up fine. Even A-100 looking good after 10 yrs. But, its hard to imagine anything lasting much longer. Thats why I'm happy using SP. On an average exterior I would have to charge an extra $500-$800 for Duration or Aura and from my experience few customers are intrested.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

johnpaint said:


> yes, is it the same as the other exteriors BM has?


:no:


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

johnpaint said:


> yeah, but like the drug companies they want us to pay their bill for an untested paint.


We the applicators are the crash test dummies with all vendors. BM test just cost more.


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

Woodland said:


> On an average exterior I would have to charge an extra $500-$800 for Duration or Aura and from my experience few customers are intrested.


I charge about that much less for the use of Duration. SP takes another day or half day for the second coat and at minimum 75% more paint. So my quotes for Duration are cheaper than for SP. My jobs right now are about 50-50 Duration/SP. The use of Duration is climbing.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

ewingpainting.net said:


> We the applicators are the crash test dummies with all vendors. BM test just cost more.


Yet you're usually comped the material....so whats the problem?


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> Yet you're usually comped the material....so whats the problem?


Not usually there have been plenty time the ball dropped in my court. BTW a failure cost more than t&m, if you were to comp the time & material. We the contractor still have a black eye to deal with, sometimes costing a relationship. Which is why I have a high demand. 
This is one of the main reasons I won't buy from a distributor. Dealing direct with a manufacture has less red tape and more support. A distributor is merly a hand of with the extra cost to hand it off.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> Yet you're usually comped the material....so whats the problem?


Sure there is no problem with that at all. Right, but your trying to win jobs here in a time when people are getting 5 bids per job.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Not usually there have been plenty time the ball dropped in my court. BTW a failure cost more than t&m, if you were to comp the time & material. We the contractor still have a black eye to deal with, sometimes costing a relationship. Which is why I have a high demand.
> This is one of the main reasons I won't buy from a distributor. Dealing direct with a manufacture has less red tape and more support. A distributor is merly a hand of with the extra cost to hand it off.


all these new paints and they want us to work out the bugs in their paints, they should pay us to use the paint for the learning curve. lol


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> Yet you're usually comped the material....so whats the problem?


Spoken by a true paint salesman.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

There should be like points you can redeem for money for the use of these new paints.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

I was talking about being comped on a new product. If there is a failure involved that is an entirely different story, one that I completely understand. Free material is pennies in the bucket on a failure.

Paint failure the contractor loses

** paying to redo the job (labor costs)
** profit loss on the redo
** rescheduling the next job to finish the redo
** possible loss of future work


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

johnpaint said:


> There should be like points you can redeem for money for the use of these new paints.


BM has a rewards program, so does Sikkens.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> BM has a rewards program, so does Sikkens.


What's the reward?


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

ewingpainting.net said:


> What's the reward?


www.mypaintrewards.com :thumbsup:


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> BM has a rewards program, so does Sikkens.


Can you share that with us little people?


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

johnpaint said:


> Can you share that with us little people?


Sikkens http://www.nam.sikkens.com/contractor/rewards-program.cfm

Benjamin Moore www.mypaintrewards.com


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> Sikkens http://www.nam.sikkens.com/contractor/rewards-program.cfm
> 
> Benjamin Moore www.mypaintrewards.com


No thats just smoke and Mirrors, I'm talking about rewards on a new types of paint they come out with that people have to work the bugs out for them.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

johnpaint said:


> No thats just smoke and Mirrors, I'm talking about rewards on a new types of paint they come out with that people have to work the bugs out for them.


Ohhhh, that goes back to the free samples/demo...its given to you to try, see what you think sorta thing.


BM does have a product feedback sorta program. I have to apologize, im not really knowledgeable on it. Let me do some checking and i'll report back


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> Ohhhh, that goes back to the free samples/demo...its given to you to try, see what you think sorta thing.
> 
> 
> BM does have a product feedback sorta program. I have to apologize, im not really knowledgeable on it. Let me do some checking and i'll report back


Yeah that works, but I have yet to see enough to do a whole house kind of thing. I really don't want to get my sprayer set up for five gallons of paint.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

I have also been offered ten gallons of some paint, enough to do a big dog house. Joking you know.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

This is a good thread for the paint companies to be a part of.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

I have been using aura since it first came out here in California, the interior product was first - was here for about a year before the exterior stuff was released. or at least at my local paint store. The paint stores all had to agree to not sell it below a certain price. A smart move on BM i think. 

Anyway - Not sure why all the difficulty with this product. It's just freaking paint. I would say 9/10 times the problem is from the user not the product. I used to love the moorguard when you had to wash your stuff in both water and thinner. but they changed that out here. 

With any new products you have to start small then go from there. 

Pat


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## LOSTinDETAILS (Jun 17, 2009)

johnpaint said:


> I really don't understand a paint that needs to use an extender, for one thing you already pay three prices for the paint, and then they leave it up to us to pay more to make their overpriced paint work.


Extenders can save your a$$ painting in the sun. Yeah I know you are not suppose to but sometimes it must be done. 


I would guess your spray setup was not dialed in with the new product. I am sure after this job you will be a pro with the aura.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

This is the real problem I have with this product, if so called pros are having problems with a paint being user friendly, then that can only mean that if the home owner uses the product they should have even more problems with it. This is the same story I hear from Behr paints, so why is it that we forgive a paint just because we have just paid 50 plus bucks for it. Just what if they made it so user friendly that it jumped out of the can and applied itself,would we think there was something wrong with the product?Does our pride tell us that we have tamed the beast if we can use it properly?


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

I guess my point is, this is 2010 why should pay big for a product that is hard to use?


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

What kind of shingles? Like cedar shakes? If it is shakes, If you have to do any backrolling, I would just backroll it yourself while you spray.

By the time you come down off a ladder, and send someone else up, you can almost have it backrolled, and you can have it backrolled before it dries.

Also if there are any dry marks or lap marks, you can just re-roll the shingles that have them and there are lots of places to break off your touch ups.

And if you bring your tip size down then it's easy to cut right under the lip of the last section you sprayed without getting overspray on what is finished.

Having said that I have never used Aura exterior, but I have used Aura interior wall paint in a deep base, and I did not like all of the caveats and special techniques and extra products needed to supposedly get it to work properly.

But that was several years ago right when it first came out. They may have worked out the bugs, lots of people seem to like it.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

If its as fookin hot where you are as it has been here you need the extender. I tried painting some doors last week in acrylic enamel and I would cut in the top two raised panels and the edges and it was drying before I could roll it in. 

Basically about 120 seconds..


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Ok! I live in southern California near Palm Springs, where it can get up to 120 degrees. I spent a good part of my career in the paint industry there. I painted hundreds of exterior homes in the surrounding areas. Never have I even considered using a extender. Don't get it. Why do you need it? Is it that Arura is so special that it needs a special extender? I'm kinda thinking learn to paint. Not being jerky, just need understanding.


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## BC_Painter (Feb 14, 2010)

My old BM rep used to start spiking ALL of his aura ( interior too ) in the hot dry summer months since it was such an issue.

I never used it much, but it seemed many contractors were having the issues even if they used it a lot.

I can see this being a real complaint for that reason alone.

I typically don't use extenders either, but on a recent project I had to use it in some GP HP2000 S/G. Real PITA, I honestly thought I had a bad batch of paint or something but my rep told me to use extender or a diff product 

It does suck when you've gotta buy extender to throw into expensive paint, doesn't hurt me since the customer pays for it all, but I just don't like the idea of having to do it.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Ya, I would expect it to be comped. Specially in your situation BC. All the paints I have went through including aura, I haven't had any need for it. It would piss me off if my rep said I needed to buy something to make it work. I'd feel like they upsold me.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Ya, I would expect it to be comped. Specially in your situation BC. All the paints I have went through including aura, I haven't had any need for it. It would piss me off if my rep said I needed to buy something to make it work. I'd feel like they upsold me.


A power washer needs gasoline

Airless sprayers need tips

Electric cars need to be plugged in

Food has to be cooked

Paint needs extender....sometimes....whats the big deal? 

I know I know, at $50/gal it shouldnt "need" anything. Well it needs it on certain occasions, not every time. In direct sun, on a hot day, on a hot surface, yes, extender would probably help. Same conditions with any other acrylic paint, application will still be moderately annoying. :yes:


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

NC, my point is, I live in a hotter climate. I never even considered using a extender. Why would I need to consider it now? It seems to me it's like training wheels rather than gas for a car. Or for a bad batch of paint. It's not a big deal. I was just wanting clarification.


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

that and it being the most expensive latex paint out there (I am sure there are a brand or two that are more expensive).. adding another 15bux to it is just eating a painter (who already is facing a **** industry) away.


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

Oh yeah and:

http://links.mkt1778.com/servlet/Ma...&r=Mzk5NTA2NDA1OQS2&j=NzY4MzE5ODcS1&mt=1&rt=0


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## painterdude (Jun 18, 2008)

back when I started in the mid 70's til I left upstate n.y. if I needed anything extra, like aquatrol or flotrol(is that right, it's been a while) the paint store guys would always throw me what I needed. Good customers deserve help, they're the lifeblood of the paint store. When I moved to Florida in '89, I got **** from the SW stores...company owned and company computerised. I have to agree..high dollar product if bought by a contract painter...he shouldn't have to dole out extra to make it work. What say NC? You takin' care of those takin' care of you?


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

ewingpainting.net said:


> NC, my point is, I live in a hotter climate. I never even considered using a extender. Why would I need to consider it now? It seems to me it's like training wheels rather than gas for a car. Or for a bad batch of paint. It's not a big deal. I was just wanting clarification.


 You have never had to add water to exterior paint to reduce drag? If paying for it is a problem add it to your bill, and start including the costs in your estimates.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

All I'm saying is if your paying so much for paint, I want that paint to jump out of can and unto the wall very nicely.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> You have never had to add water to exterior paint to reduce drag? If paying for it is a problem add it to your bill, and start including the costs in your estimates.


If your saying water is just as good as the extender. Then why are you paying for extender?

Besides the cost of the extender is relatively cheap. Cost of the extender is beside the point. 



johnpaint said:


> All I'm saying is if your paying so much for paint, I want that paint to jump out of can and unto the wall very nicely.


I would like at least a song and dance before it goes on the wall


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

That's what I'm talking about. I think it's so funny when people say, well the home owner pays for it anyway. I'm bidding on jobs now with 4 to 5 bids per job, where there use to be no more than three and I'm not to worry about adding more money to the bid? Who are we kidding?


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## LOSTinDETAILS (Jun 17, 2009)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Ok! Why do you need it? Is it that Arura is so special that it needs a special extender? I'm kinda thinking learn to paint. *Not being jerky*, just need understanding.


To late for that!:laughing:

Short and simple version would be that it buys you some time in certain situations. If you need anymore reason we should pm one of the resident chemist for further discussion. :walkman:


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

On snapity. 
Why would you need more time?


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## LOSTinDETAILS (Jun 17, 2009)

Certain jobs that are T&M I like to slow down any chance I can.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

LOSTinDETAILS said:


> Certain jobs that are T&M I like to slow down any chance I can.


:lol: got to love the union employee mentality. Do set up a umbrella too? :lol:


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

ewingpainting.net said:


> :lol: got to love the union employee mentality. Do set up a umbrella too? :lol:


Yes i will just drive my Chevy Vega to work and put in my hours.they have every thing there for me so thats all I need is my Chevy Vega.


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## VanDamme (Feb 13, 2010)

This is a serious question (and not one to bemoan NC), but why are you guys even using Aura? What's the end result of using $40+ gal. when you are applying 2 coats? Is it to give the customer a 25 year paint job? Does it save you so much in labor that it pays for itself? Do you use it because it covers in one coat where you would need to apply 2 coats otherwise?

I'm just curious why it's even used and the reasons for it.


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## BC_Painter (Feb 14, 2010)

VanDamme said:


> This is a serious question (and not one to bemoan NC), but why are you guys even using Aura? What's the end result of using $40+ gal. when you are applying 2 coats? Is it to give the customer a 25 year paint job? Does it save you so much in labor that it pays for itself? Do you use it because it covers in one coat where you would need to apply 2 coats otherwise?
> 
> I'm just curious why it's even used and the reasons for it.



I only ever use it because the customer is convinced it's the best paint out there, and charge accordingly.

:thumbsup:


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

I use it because I want to give my customers the best possible job. In general materials is not whats going to loose the job for me, it's the labor. A few more hundred dollars for materials is not really that big of a deal, plus it helps me get jobs when I hand the customers the product sheets and brochures on Aura. 

It looks real nice compared to most other waterbase products. Also It helps my local paint store as I'm pretty sure they make good money off of selling me this stuff compared to other products they carry.

Pat


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

VanDamme said:


> This is a serious question (and not one to bemoan NC), but why are you guys even using Aura? What's the end result of using $40+ gal. when you are applying 2 coats? Is it to give the customer a 25 year paint job? Does it save you so much in labor that it pays for itself? Do you use it because it covers in one coat where you would need to apply 2 coats otherwise?
> 
> I'm just curious why it's even used and the reasons for it.


I haven't used a lot of Aura but there are some cases where paying the high prices this paint demands are well worth the money. 

The interior stuff does have great hide. And when you want to change wall colours from dark brown to white, there are very few paints that can do this in 2 coats. Aura would be one of them. The paint costs more but i'm saving big money on the extra labour i'd pay for a 3rd or 4th coat of most other paints. 

I like how it levels on trim. It lays out smooth like a lacquer does. But I don't like it for cabinet doors or built in's because it stays tacky for too long. 

As for the exterior stuff, it's high build so it will level out minor surface imperfections - thus saving time on prep (to an extent). I don't see the need for it on siding personally. 

Aura has its place, no doubt, but it's no miracle paint.


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## VanDamme (Feb 13, 2010)

PatsPainting said:


> I use it because I want to give my customers the best possible job. In general materials is not whats going to loose the job for me, it's the labor. A few more hundred dollars for materials is not really that big of a deal, plus it helps me get jobs when I hand the customers the product sheets and brochures on Aura.
> 
> It looks real nice compared to most other waterbase products. Also It helps my local paint store as I'm pretty sure they make good money off of selling me this stuff compared to other products they carry.
> 
> Pat


Pat, What is the best possible job? How does Aura compare with say 2 coats of SW A-100 (I don't use SW, but I think A-100 is their middle-of-the-line paint). Will the Aura last longer do you think?

I'm currently spraying two coats on a newly sided house, and I know for a fact the color will get changed before this paint job wears out. I'm paying $20.25 for Miller's Acri-lite 100% acrylic.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

PatsPainting said:


> I use it because I want to give my customers the best possible job. In general materials is not whats going to loose the job for me, it's the labor. A few more hundred dollars for materials is not really that big of a deal, plus it helps me get jobs when I hand the customers the product sheets and brochures on Aura.
> 
> It looks real nice compared to most other waterbase products. Also It helps my local paint store as I'm pretty sure they make good money off of selling me this stuff compared to other products they carry.
> 
> Pat


I can achieve the same results with Vista's Carefree line. Which BTW is now selling BM.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

VanDamme said:


> Pat, What is the best possible job? How does Aura compare with say 2 coats of SW A-100 (I don't use SW, but I think A-100 is their middle-of-the-line paint). Will the Aura last longer do you think?
> 
> I'm currently spraying two coats on a newly sided house, and I know for a fact the color will get changed before this paint job wears out. I'm paying $20.25 for Miller's Acri-lite 100% acrylic.


well i dunno, I'm no expert on all the different brands out there, nor do I have any experiments going on. Plus aura has not been around that long. 

I only use aura for exterior wood, if there is a big color change then I will use it on interior walls, have also used it on interior wood work. lays out real nice. I'm a residential painter so materials is not a huge factor in my bids. I just feel if I'm going to spend all that time prepping and preparing the surface, why not use what I think is the best out there. 

The bottom line here is what ever you are using and if your having great success then no need change what your doing. I have been using Benjamin Moore for a long time, and its never let me down with bogus claims. Until then I will keep using the best they have as it has brought me success.

Pat


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## VanDamme (Feb 13, 2010)

*"Until then I will keep using the best they have as it has brought me success."*

Good enough. Thanks.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

*Fun Fact*

Most people paint the exteriors of their homes on average every 7-10 years

People who use color on interiors ( not the plain white homes ) repaint every 3-5 years.

I cant remember where I read that, it was awhile ago. So basically in a nutshell, if the paint looks good for that time frame, your customer should be satisfied.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

ewingpainting.net said:


> If your saying water is just as good as the extender. Then why are you paying for extender?
> 
> Besides the cost of the extender is relatively cheap. Cost of the extender is beside the point.
> 
> ...


 

I am not saying that, and I wouldn't put water in Aura, its too expensive to risk that. Honestly I could fit the amount of Aura I have used in my tiny 10x10 office. I still use soft gloss for 80% of my exterior repaints, product never lets me down.

However I have had to keep a small bottle of high quality paint thinner (H²O) with me during the summer or my wrist will break from the drag.


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## Dunbar Painting (Mar 19, 2010)

Alright, so I got Aura to work... here is what I did:


1. Put the sprayer intake into a bucket and sealed around so air could not get in and dry the paint and clog my sprayer
2. put the primer house in another similarly sealed bucket
3. every 20minutes reversed the tip and sprayed it through into the bucket
4. went up ladder with spray gun and roller, backrolled 4x4 areas as i sprayed them so the paint could not set up
5. NO extender, straight aura

It worked nicely


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

Dunbar Painting said:


> Alright, so I got Aura to work... here is what I did:
> 
> 
> 1. Put the sprayer intake into a bucket and sealed around so air could not get in and dry the paint and clog my sprayer
> ...



Awesome. 

I always just pop the little 2 inch plug off the top of the 5 and put the stinger straight in the bucket. This works to keep the paint from drying, it keeps objects out of the paint, and it makes it real easy to move the airless and 5 gallon bucket around without having to worry about spilling paint.

And of course never set a 5 in the sun, full, half full, or otherwise. The heat inside dries the paint out. 5's are already prone to having crud in them compared to gallons, best to keep them out of the sun.

When the sprayer can't suck any more paint, I just pop the plug off the next 5 and dunk the sprayer and prime hose into it, prime it and keep going.

I will take the time to scrape the 5's clean later with a brush and consolidate the remaining paint either when I run low on paint, or after I finish spraying, whichever comes first.

I personally would not reverse the tip unless it clogs. When the tip is in and there is a wet seal of paint between the gun and the back of the tip I just leave it that way unless there is a reason to take it out or reverse it.

when paint builds up on the outside of a tip, you can just peel it off with your fingernails and keep spraying.

When you reverse a tip, it breaks the wet seal between the gun and the tip, then that wet paint coats the inside of the tip housing while it is spinning, and that paint dries into a film on the inside of the housing.

The next time the tip is reversed there is the possibility that the opening at the back of the tip will scrape off some of that dry paint and deposit it in the opening, which then clogs the tip from the gun side.

I usually just dunk the end of the gun in some water without removing the tip. This keeps it from drying out when I am not spraying, But even without doing that, if you leave the wet seal at the back of the tip it will stay wet, even for days, ( not with hot paint though ) and you can just pick up the gun, peel the paint off the outside of the tip and spray.

Also, resist the urge to just remove the tip from the housing when cleaning the pump/gun and shoot everything through with the housing still attached.

That always shoots a lot of paint/paint water all into the housing, which then can accumulate and clog up the inside of the housing either causing the tip to not seat properly, or just creating a whole lot of potential dried paint residue that can clog the backside of the tip opening when putting the tip in and or reversing it.

It is best to only have the housing attached to the gun when you are actually spraying, or transporting the machine. I always take it off when I clean the pump, switch colors etc.

Plus this allows better control for cleaning because you can hook the gun over the edge of a two gallon bucket and and spray water along the edge of the bucket in a spiral so zero spray, or spatter comes out of the bucket when cleaning.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Can we line all the Aura users up against the wall and check to see how many are hippies.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

johnpaint said:


> Can we line all the Aura users up against the wall and check to see how many are hippies.


******* here.  Then again, I'm mostly SW. :yes:


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Woodland said:


> ******* here.  Then again, I'm mostly SW. :yes:


The Double Whammy :yes: 

If your first name is Bob, Steve, or Jim....you hit the trifecta for the stereotypical painter.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

NCPaint1 said:


> The Double Whammy :yes:
> 
> If your first name is Bob, Steve, or Jim....you hit the trifecta for the stereotypical painter.


LOL, close.... It's Mike


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

I think you really can't go wrong with Super Paint, at least I can afford it a little better, if it messes up.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

johnpaint said:


> I think you really can't go wrong with Super Paint, at least I can afford it a little better, if it messes up.


I been using it since it came out. Used A-100 prior to that. I am branching out a little these days. I am now offering customers a choice between BMs "Ben" and SWs "Super Paint" I gotta admit, after 27+ years in the painting industry, "Aura" is probably the best exterior paint I have ever used. I was very pleased with the final results, but for me it's hard to be competive with the extra $25 or so per gallon. Same thing with "Duration". My last exterior job took 40 gallons. That's an extra Grand in paint. My next three exteriors I have lined up are contracted for Super Paint Satin. Then I have another BM exterior coming up in August.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Woodland said:


> I was very pleased with the final results, but for me it's hard to be competive with the extra $25 or so per gallon. Same thing with "Duration". My last exterior job took 40 gallons. That's an extra Grand in paint.


Wait till you use Sikkens on a Log home. At $70 +/- a gallon :yes: Double coated too. Toss in absolutely no year warranty from the manufacturer. I understand that its a different ballgame with that product, but in the grand scheme of things, labor is the biggest expense for the H.O.

Like you said, you have a 40 gallon job coming up. I'm sure that it isnt a cheap job either ( labor wise ) So leave the product upgrade option to the H.O, let them decide if they wanna spend the extra, you may be surprised.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

NCPaint1 said:


> Wait till you use Sikkens on a Log home. At $70 +/- a gallon :yes: Double coated too. Toss in absolutely no year warranty from the manufacturer. I understand that its a different ballgame with that product, but in the grand scheme of things, labor is the biggest expense for the H.O.
> 
> Like you said, you have a 40 gallon job coming up. I'm sure that it isnt a cheap job either ( labor wise ) So leave the product upgrade option to the H.O, let them decide if they wanna spend the extra, you may be surprised.


Agreed. Just gotta eduacate the customers. Many think paint is paint. At one time even Super Paint was a big step up in price after using A-100 and now I havent used A-100 in years. Benjamin Moore is a new thing for me that came up after a disagreement with SW. The BM rep has gone to great lengths to win my business. Has been by my jobs a few times last month. He will be coming by my job today where I'm using Arborcoat on a deck.


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## Dunbar Painting (Mar 19, 2010)

In all my Aura issues and successes, ultimately it was just frustrating from a professional stand point. The home owner is paying for all the paint regardless of how much I use, and he is giving me extra money for the labour involved in dealing with a hard to use product. So I am in the clear either way, I was just freakin out due to frustration of not having things work out technically!


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Dunbar Painting said:


> In all my Aura issues and successes, ultimately it was just frustrating from a professional stand point. The home owner is paying for all the paint regardless of how much I use, and he is giving me extra money for the labour involved in dealing with a hard to use product. So I am in the clear either way, I was just freakin out due to frustration of not having things work out technically!


I've been there with other products. I had a job a few years back where the customer insisted on a waterboune clear on their cabinets because they didnt want the amber tint. Tried to sell them on water white lacquer and they would'nt go for it. I had a heck of a time trying to get dialed in spraying those cabinets. Give me lacquer any day. I could teach a monkey to spray that stuff. :yes:


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Woodland, what do you tell the client when you are giving them the option? What are you educating them (product wise). What's the pro and cons of using arua or not verses duration or superpaint. Why would a client choose this if they are not sold on it already.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Woodland, what do you tell the client when you are giving them the option? What are you educating them (product wise). What's the pro and cons of using arua or not verses duration or superpaint. Why would a client choose this if they are not sold on it already.


In the past I was pretty much exclusively SW. I am still experimenting now that I am using both BM and SW. I have a folder put together I present when doing an estimate which along with copies of refences, ins, bond, etc. and a couple other forms about why choose a licensed contractor? And coming soon a couple PDCA pages too. I also add the basic color charts from both SW and BM and the product info. On the "Aura" I have been giving them the brocheres my BM rep gave me explaining BMs "Color lock technolgy" and how the color is in the resin there for providing better color retention and fade resistance. Especially when they are choosing the deeper colors. In the past when I was trying to sell "Duration" all though the upgrade only added $300-$500 on average, most went with "Super Paint" claiming they wouldnt be in their house in 10 yrs or would be changing the color.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Is color retention the main selling point of Aura? Using ANY vendors cheaper paints will have color retention issues. I have never had a issue with color retention using the high end product with Frazee (comex), Vista Paints, Sherwin Williams, PP&G, ICI. The only thing that makes the resins special is the colorant mixes with the resins. Which helps for applying deep colors. At least that's all that's been presented to me. interesting to me that you present the info to your clients and the majority is not picking Arua.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Well, we will have to see. Using Aura and presenting it to my customers is still rather new for me. My past experience was offering Super Paint or Duration. Most seemed to settle for the Super Paint and I really only tried pushing it for one summer. New stragegy and new products now. Also trying to offer a choice between SW and BM to see what happens. If it causes too much confusion, I will go back to just one paint, but different grades.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

I don't use one particular brand. Yes! I do by the majority of my product at Vista Paint. But, if I know a product that is a better fit for that substrate. Then I will use it. All in all Vista Paints have a well rounded products that meet mine and my clients needs. They even sell BM now. I recommend a system and why I recommend it. On ext. I recommend 3 systems and the vendors will very.


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