# Sprayed flat white on cabinets they feel rough.



## frankyjohayro (Sep 27, 2020)

So I did the standard procedures very carefully. We painted the cabinets and boxes white, then painted the island gray. The gray island resulted in a very smooth finish. The white cabinets even though they look real good, they feel rough almost as if it wasn't sanded after priming. Now I'm 100% everything got the same attention to detail, so why does the flat white feel rough? And the flat gray island feels so smooth?
We primed with shellac, sanded dusted and sprayed emerald urithrane flat. The white was pure white and gray was dovetail.


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

So emerald urethane does not come in a flat?? Satin is the lowest sheen. Is it possible you used satin on the island and just the regular Emerald wall paint on the island?


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## Ryan_PatchandPaintPros (Feb 1, 2021)

Which cabinets did you paint first, grey or white?


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## frankyjohayro (Sep 27, 2020)

MikeCalifornia said:


> So emerald urethane does not come in a flat?? Satin is the lowest sheen. Is it possible you used satin on the island and just the regular Emerald wall paint on the island?


Yeah they actually are both satin, not flat.


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## frankyjohayro (Sep 27, 2020)

Ryan_PatchandPaintPros said:


> Which cabinets did you paint first, grey or white?


The gray, then we covered it with plastic to do the white


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

Best guess is that overspray lingered in the air and attached itself to your freshly painted cabs. The gray are smooth because you covered them up, so they weren't affected. Sometimes the fog that results when spraying kitchen cabs can be problematic, especially without efficient fresh air & exhaust systems in place. Some of the fog gets on wood you're about to spray, the rest on stuff you just sprayed. Either way, it can create a rough feeling texture.

What were you using for fans?
What size tip were you spraying with?
What was the pressure setting?


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## frankyjohayro (Sep 27, 2020)

No fans only an open window. We used 211's with the pressure almost all the way low on a 3k psi airless. Thing is, I covered the grey after it was dry, so if it was to get damaged by lingering mists it would be while its still wet. I had white and grey doors drying on the same rack same area vertically hung on hangers. Also I had to redo 2 drawers because they were the wrong color, so I used a foam roller to correct them and still the gray is smooth while the white feels rough


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

Strange. im at a loss. I find it hard to believe that its overpspray settling, but I guess its possible.


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## frankyjohayro (Sep 27, 2020)

Woodco said:


> Strange. im at a loss. I find it hard to believe that its overpspray settling, but I guess its possible.


Someone mentioned to me something about how paint finish can change if anything is added to it. The gray needs lots of pigment and a deep base, while the white uses very little pigment and a normal white base, so maybe colors with not much pigment end up like this?


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## mug (Dec 22, 2010)

Emerald urathane satin is gritty or chalky. You probably sprayed the grey on thicker to get coverage and it leveled out better. We are all guessing here.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

Yes, it could vary between light vs. dark colors, especially if they used glycol based tints. Darker colors would contain more glycol, and the glycol acts as a retarder, slowing the drying time. This can be bad for production based work, but good, (kinda), from a quality looking finish standpoint. By slowing the drying time, it can allow the paint to level & flow more before it sets up. Additionally, adding paints high in glycols can successively increase the sheen, which is why touch-ups often turn out shinier than their surroundings when darker colors are used with UTC's.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Just wondering how you can mistake satin for flat. ? Why would anyone consider flat on cabinets anyhow.? All that aside, I have not heard positive things about this Emerald Urethane.


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## frankyjohayro (Sep 27, 2020)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Just wondering how you can mistake satin for flat. ? Why would anyone consider flat on cabinets anyhow.? All that aside, I have not heard positive things about this Emerald Urethane.


I wouldn't say I mistaked flat for satin. Satin is a little flat but I just said the wrong word, it was just a Freudian slip.


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## frankyjohayro (Sep 27, 2020)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> Yes, it could vary between light vs. dark colors, especially if they used glycol based tints. Darker colors would contain more glycol, and the glycol acts as a retarder, slowing the drying time. This can be bad for production based work, but good, (kinda), from a quality looking finish standpoint. By slowing the drying time, it can allow the paint to level & flow more before it sets up. Additionally, adding paints high in glycols can successively increase the sheen, which is why touch-ups often turn out shinier than their surroundings when darker colors are used with UTC's.


_I think the darker color did take a little longer to dry. What satin white paint would you recommend to spray after sanding the shellac coat?_


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## Ramus8T (Jan 14, 2020)

frankyjohayro said:


> _I think the darker color did take a little longer to dry. What satin white paint would you recommend to spray after sanding the shellac coat?_


I’ve sprayed Emerald Urethane Satin in white over shellac and didn’t have any texture issues. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

frankyjohayro said:


> _I think the darker color did take a little longer to dry. What satin white paint would you recommend to spray after sanding the shellac coat?_


Cabinetcoat or advance  both produce a much nicer finish than emerald urethane.


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## frankyjohayro (Sep 27, 2020)

Ramus8T said:


> I’ve sprayed Emerald Urethane Satin in white over shellac and didn’t have any texture issues.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Damn.. hopefully it was something wrong with the paint and not something wrong with the way we applied.. I was thinking maybe the painter that cleaned the sprayer after the shellac didn't do such a good job at washing the sprayer..


Ramus8T said:


> I’ve sprayed Emerald Urethane Satin in white over shellac and didn’t have any texture issues.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Which white was it?


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## Ramus8T (Jan 14, 2020)

frankyjohayro said:


> Damn.. hopefully it was something wrong with the paint and not something wrong with the way we applied.. I was thinking maybe the painter that cleaned the sprayer after the shellac didn't do such a good job at washing the sprayer..
> 
> Which white was it?


It was a tinted white. Panda White SW6147. 

Shellac and water don’t mix at all. Combining the two will cause coagulation. 
Clean out the shellac(denatured Alcohol or appropriate alcohol base cleanser), rinse with warm soapy water,
And then finally rinse with water. 

After that you can put latex through it if thoroughly done. 

Most people have separate pumps for solvents and waterbased. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## frankyjohayro (Sep 27, 2020)

Ramus8T said:


> It was a tinted white. Panda White SW6147.
> 
> Shellac and water don’t mix at all. Combining the two will cause coagulation.
> Clean out the shellac(denatured Alcohol or appropriate alcohol base cleanser), rinse with warm soapy water,
> ...


We cleaned with alcohol, then run warm water with ammonia then just water then we can introduce the new paint. From now on I will use different sprayers for different solvents


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

frankyjohayro said:


> We cleaned with alcohol, then run warm water with ammonia then just water then we can introduce the new paint. From now on I will use different sprayers for different solvents


alcohol and ammonia will loosen up dried latex particulate in your machine. Use a dedicated sprayer for solvents


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

I don't think it would be your pump or how clean it was. Maybe for the first door or so, but that's just the first coat. I would say its the base difference for sure. You say the grey was a deep base, and the light was the white base. Emerald Urethane is pretty dull and slightly gritty, the reason I don't like it for cabinets, also the dry time. Emerald Urethane is one of the products that is touted as a super burnish resistant and water resistant coating. Anything that is burnish resistant will be dull to the touch. An ultra-smooth paint is easily burnished, not lacquer or polys, but acrylics. But imagine removing 12 ounces of raw pigment so that the store can then add pigment to create your color. You will have less of the Emerald feel and more of the slick colorant feel.
I would be interested to see how the finish would be if the store tinted your white color in a deep base. It would contain mostly white tint, but it could be done??


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## Ricks Painting (May 2, 2020)

emerald is trash thats why


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## Ramus8T (Jan 14, 2020)

Ricks Painting said:


> emerald is trash thats why


What’s a better waterborne paint in your opinion? 


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I only used emerald urethane satin once, flat and gritty is how I would desirable the appearance and feel. This was hand applied. It leveled nicely but SW does not know what a satin should look like.


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## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

I don't like Emerald as much as I do ProClassic for cabinets. Emerald does indeed have a strange feel to it. The semi-gloss is pretty decent although it does take 3 coats for proper coverage.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Semigloss does seem normal and as one would expect for a trim enamel. Satin, not so much. I heard they improved the satin since I tried it when it first came out, but it does not sound like it is much better.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

DeanV said:


> Semigloss does seem normal and as one would expect for a trim enamel. Satin, not so much. I heard they improved the satin since I tried it when it first came out, but it does not sound like it is much better.


I used the Satin last week, and it felt like a chalkboard. 
I'm afraid to try the semi-gloss.


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## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

Ramus8T said:


> What’s a better waterborne paint in your opinion?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Scuff-X.

I've used Emerald only a couple of times. I found it a PITA to work with. Really bad open time in my experience and this doesn't lay down well and is hard to keep it from flashing. Scuff-X is not only cheaper, but I don't have those problems with it.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

At the very least, have a dedicated hose and gun for solvents. My first pump, I had to spray latex, oil, and lacquer out of, in the same day, sometimes....


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## Masterwork (Sep 13, 2020)

Holland said:


> I used the Satin last week, and it felt like a chalkboard.
> I'm afraid to try the semi-gloss.


The semi is nice. I'm sure the paint store will give you a gallon to try out.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

The semi-gloss Emerald Urethane worked fine for us, we ended up using that over the satin to fix it. We were told by SW on a project that specified Emerald Urethane for exterior garage doors that it had very specific recoat time (something like do a second coat within 8 hours or wait X days and sand before recoating) or you would have problems with curing or adhesion. That was enough of a hassle for me. Not sure that is true, but between the satin fiasco and the ridiculous recoat windows, I wanted nothing more to do with that product.


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## UnhappyCustomer (Apr 28, 2014)

frankyjohayro said:


> So I did the standard procedures very carefully. We painted the cabinets and boxes white, then painted the island gray. The gray island resulted in a very smooth finish. The white cabinets even though they look real good, they feel rough almost as if it wasn't sanded after priming. Now I'm 100% everything got the same attention to detail, so why does the flat white feel rough? And the flat gray island feels so smooth?
> We primed with shellac, sanded dusted and sprayed emerald urithrane flat. The white was pure white and gray was dovetail.


We’re dealing with this now & I absolutely believe it has something to do with the added color in the deep bases. 
We painted our bottom cabinets a custom blue with satin Emerald Urethane. We rolled the boxes and sprayed the doors. The finish turned out beautiful, exactly what I was hoping for, but we had a lot of issues along the way & Sherwin Williams was less than helpful. The paint would not set on the doors. A week after we sprayed it would rub off the edges just from a slight touch. We ended up redoing them entirely, thinking it was our fault, had to let them sit for 2 weeks before installing & a month in there are some areas that I still think will be an issue, but they are mostly cured.
4 nights ago we started with SW Pure White on the remaining cabinets. We prepped everything the exact same way & it’s been a completely different experience. The paint is rock hard the next day, but looks like we used chalk paint, not $90/gal paint.
Had I used the SW Pure White first I would have immediately changed to semi-gloss.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

UnhappyCustomer said:


> We’re dealing with this now & I absolutely believe it has something to do with the added color in the deep bases.
> We painted our bottom cabinets a custom blue with satin Emerald Urethane. We rolled the boxes and sprayed the doors. The finish turned out beautiful, exactly what I was hoping for, but we had a lot of issues along the way & Sherwin Williams was less than helpful. The paint would not set on the doors. A week after we sprayed it would rub off the edges just from a slight touch. We ended up redoing them entirely, thinking it was our fault, had to let them sit for 2 weeks before installing & a month in there are some areas that I still think will be an issue, but they are mostly cured.
> 4 nights ago we started with SW Pure White on the remaining cabinets. We prepped everything the exact same way & it’s been a completely different experience. The paint is rock hard the next day, but looks like we used chalk paint, not $90/gal paint.
> Had I used the SW Pure White first I would have immediately changed to semi-gloss.


So are you the unhappy customer or the unhappy contractor. ?Just kind of an unusual profile name.. Surprised that you used the same product.. 🤷‍♂️


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## CatJP (Jun 28, 2021)

Emerald semi-gloss urethane is more of a satin looking finish. The satin looks and feels like a flat finish. Have not used the gloss so no clue on what it looks like


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