# Why VOC Ratings are Bullsh**



## BreatheEasyHP (Apr 24, 2011)

Your paint company is selling you "Low-VOC" paint and claiming that it's healthier. They're either ignorant or dishonest. 

The VOC ratings for paint were created to address ozone depletion and smog; VOCs that affect health, but not the atmosphere, are EXEMPT from the calculation. 

There are a couple of paints (like Mythic) that have tested for any irritants or carcinogens. But really, we have to learn to trust ourselves on this one - paint changes too fast, the research is too hard. I got a headache from Emerald, so did a bunch of you. SW claims it's a healthy paint, and that's dishonest and wrong. 

If a paint irritates your respiratory tract, makes your eyes itch and sting, or gives you a headache, it's a toxic paint. If it doesn't, it's most likely healthier - our bodies have amazing communication abilities, informing us that something is toxic or carcinogenic far faster (and possibly more accurately) than a gaggle of scientists working in a lab funded under an egregious conflict of interest. 

I wasn't able to find the full list of exempt solvents, but this website has a partial list. If you haven't believed this yet, this partial list includes acetone. Yeah - a "no-voc" paint might have acetone in it. 

http://www.hercenter.org/facilitiesandgrounds/paints.cfm

"An exempt solvent is a volatile organic compound that does not participate in an atmospheric photochemical reaction to form smog. It can be an organic solvent but it takes so long to react with nitrogen oxides (NOx) in the presence of sunlight that the EPA considers its reactivity to be negligible. Only a handful of exempt solvents are approved for use in paints and coatings and these include acetone, methyl acetate, PCBTF (Oxsol 100), and volatile methyl siloxanes."


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

When the first big push for lowering VOCs came along in the SCAQMD, the paint companies tried using exempt solvents, including some pretty nasty chlorinated hydrocarbons, like 1,1,1-trichloroethane, IIRC. They didn't cause smog, but they killed a few painters.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Doesn't matter if I am using "Zero VOC" paint, I still induce as much ventilation into the area as possible and tell HOs that younger children, the elderly, anyone with respiratory issues, or anyone who is pregnant, should avoid the area for at least a few days if possible.


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## harmonicarocks (Nov 29, 2013)

RH said:


> Doesn't matter if I am using "Zero VOC" paint, I still induce as much ventilation into the area as possible and tell HOs that younger children, the elderly, anyone with respiratory issues, or anyone who is pregnant, should avoid the area for at least a few days if possible.


What a buzzkill!


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

Marketing rules and the people eat it up. Biodegradable is one use in my business and it means nothing. Everything is biodegradable including uranium if your willing to wait a few million years.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

PressurePros said:


> Marketing rules and the people eat it up. Biodegradable is one use in my business and it means nothing. Everything is biodegradable including uranium if your willing to wait a few million years.


Yeah, the paint cos are using the who VOC as a marketing gimmick, the SCAQMD and then the EPA made them make the change for the smog issue. They used the health angle to make users OK with the higher costs and poorer performance.

Strictly speaking, uranium isn't _bio_degradable, it's _geo_degradable. It's really only a problem for our descendants, so we're really just splitting heirs.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

I was an early adaptor and tester of the new generation of low and no's.

Don't trust your "headache" factor any more than you trust what the can says. 

Yes, I realized early on that it certainly wasn't about painter health or even homeowner health. Sounds like RRP, hey?

Be smart. Use premium paints. The better quality the base, the less horse crap you are absorbing into yourself. 

When you really think about the chemical reaction that takes place when you apply a liquid, and it dries and turns into something else in terms that are measured in minutes, yes, something is happening chemically. 

That said, long term exposure is the key. There are 2-3 products that are my kryptonite. The new ones are better. 

Let's keep moving in that direction.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Theres no doubt it's getting better when you don't have to thin with xylene!


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Painters and clients alike are more likely exposed to unwanted levels of radon then VOC's from paint. Heck, Ben and Gabe suck in more carcinogens from a weekend of BBQ'ing then they do from a year of painting.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

CApainter said:


> Painters and clients alike are more likely exposed to unwanted levels of radon then VOC's from paint. Heck, Ben and Gabe suck in more carcinogens from a weekend of BBQ'ing then they do from a year of painting.


That has always been my point.

Every single one of us is exposed to much more harmful things at the damn gas pump than spattering off a roller. 

Enough already. And we wonder why paint keeps getting more expensive. Than gas even.


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

BreatheEasyHP said:


> Your paint company is selling you "Low-VOC" paint and claiming that it's healthier. They're either ignorant or dishonest.
> 
> The VOC ratings for paint were created to address ozone depletion and smog; VOCs that affect health, but not the atmosphere, are EXEMPT from the calculation.
> 
> ...


There is nothing wrong with having regulations and concerns about atmospheric issues.
Zero VOC does not mean healthy, I never thought it did. It's just better than before.
Would you have any alternatives without the footprint being left by the distribution and logistics of smaller manufacturers?


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

George Z said:


> Zero VOC does not mean healthy, I never thought it did. It's just better than before.


Agreed. But there seems to be a disconnect with the average (non contractor) consumer. I constantly have to educate home owners that it's still paint and loaded with chemicals. Just because it's 0 VOC doesn't mean its safe to drink!


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Agreed. But there seems to be a disconnect with the average (non contractor) consumer. I constantly have to educate home owners that it's still paint and loaded with chemicals. Just because it's 0 VOC doesn't mean its safe to drink!


You should let her know. 

:jester:


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> You should let her know.
> 
> :jester:


Good Lord. Some people really need help.


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

Aw man! You mean this liquified plastic we work with isn't good for us?

Crap.


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## Monstertruck (Oct 26, 2013)

Hines Painting said:


> Aw man! You mean this liquified plastic we work with isn't good for us?
> 
> Crap.


The Latex of today is the Lead of tomorrow.


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## BreatheEasyHP (Apr 24, 2011)

Sweet, I'm glad a there's a pretty broad consensus on the toxicity of paint...I kinda expected at least some "you're paranoid" or "you're overly-health conscious" type of response. 

The only global environmental victory I've seen out of us humans is the reversal of ozone completion - we're at the cusp of the hole in ozone beginning to close, and that reversal is completely due to environmental policies on catalytic converter, paints, and mostly refrigerents. So I'm thankful for VOC ratings for that. 

And I have some clients who want to be educated in that, and value being a small part of voting for that change with their dollars* by buying low VOC paints.

But "less ozone damaging" doesn't appeal to many people, and low-VOC so heavily advertised in that way it's portrayed is part of a purposeful industry-wide misinformation campaign. Shame. 

I do think believe that there are certain acrylic paints with very low toxicity. The trouble is not having anyone to trust, and all the real information being flooded out by a singular focus on a bogus health claim. 



*the way we spend our money is probably more politically powerful than chads on a ballot


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## Cam3sc (Mar 25, 2013)

Figured by your username you would have some sort of agenda...anyways LOW and ZERO VOC paint is healthier for you then non...and also it's made to last a life-time(so they say) and do you honestly thing something made to last a lifetime will ever be made from chemicals that might or might not be bad if exposed over long periods of time?? Lol i love Zero-VOC paint LOVE IT LOVE IT LOVE IT

Volatile organic compounds (VOCs) are emitted as gases from certain solids or liquids. VOCs include a variety of chemicals, some of which may have short- and long-term adverse health effects. Concentrations of many VOCs are consistently higher indoors (up to ten times higher) than outdoors. VOCs are emitted by a wide array of products numbering in the thousands. Examples include: paints and lacquers, paint strippers, cleaning supplies, pesticides, building materials and furnishings, office equipment such as copiers and printers, correction fluids and carbonless copy paper, graphics and craft materials including glues and adhesives, permanent markers, and photographic solutions.


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## Will22 (Feb 3, 2011)

VOC content is dictated by the EPA, depending on the geographic location. Paint manufacturers have to comply with these regulations in order to sell their products in those locations. A few manufacturers label their products as non-toxic, but VOC content in paints is regarding the addition to the ozone layer, as noted here previously. Latex is not the new lead, as the latex content in waterborne paints is actually man-made (polymer, actually), not natural latex.


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## ajpace (Jan 6, 2008)

I've been talking about this for years... http://www.painttalk.com/f26/problem-understanding-low-voc-0-voc-17631/

Zero VOC does not equal "Toxin-Free". Never has, never will.


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## burchptg (Jun 30, 2013)

Jeez, you guys make me think we're all gonna die some day!


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

burchptg said:


> Jeez, you guys make me think we're all gonna die some day!


 
most likely


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

burchptg said:


> Jeez, you guys make me think we're all gonna die some day!


It's not about us. It's about the Planet we're leaving behind to our children.

BTW ,you can vote for me in the Painter of the Month thread.


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## CRS (Apr 13, 2013)

*VOC's*

It's good to see how well many of you are informed and up to date. VOC and toxicity are two different issues.

There are many of us that take all of this VOC stuff seriously, not only us formulators but most of the top polymer researchers in the industry. We do care and do our best to develop products that perform to the best of technical abilities with ALL things considered.


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## yobcdarryl (Aug 14, 2010)

*Unhealthy for the Painter*

I am a Painter for over 30 years and never had any issues with my health until now that I have been applying PPG Low VOC paints. It burns my eyes and has irritated my skin on arms, neck and face. It is now to the point that until I get answers from PPG that I will not be using Low VOC anymore. I have seen a doctor about my arms tat have red spots and he says I am allergic to something. I sprayed a apt. duplex this week in high humidity and with the sweat and paint it burned my eyes and face that I look like I was in a boxing match. 
Has anyone have same issues.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I


yobcdarryl said:


> I am a Painter for over 30 years and never had any issues with my health until now that I have been applying PPG Low VOC paints. It burns my eyes and has irritated my skin on arms, neck and face. It is now to the point that until I get answers from PPG that I will not be using Low VOC anymore. I have seen a doctor about my arms tat have red spots and he says I am allergic to something. I sprayed a apt. duplex this week in high humidity and with the sweat and paint it burned my eyes and face that I look like I was in a boxing match.
> Has anyone have same issues.


There are several things you need to consider while simultaneously seeking advice from your medical practitioner.

1. Are you wearing proper PPE? 

PPG, although a waterborne product, is an industrial coating that can have chemical properties not meant to exceed a certain PEL. The best practice of any painter, in terms of applying any coatings, is to limit exposure. This would include long sleeve shirts, gloves, spray sock, full face protection with APR, and disposable coveralls (optional)

2. Are you ventilating your work area?

Ventilating with fans, opening windows, or even a building's air handling unit, help to dissipate organic as well as inorganic solvent vapors. It also accelerates the "gassing" off of vehicle solvents.

3. Are you hydrating adequately?

Although more holistic than actual science, hydration helps to flush the system of toxins. In other words, good dietary habits may help prevent sensitivity to coating chemicals.

Disclaimer: Item 3. was more of a filler than any qualified contribution or scientific fact.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

I remember. All the sudden I got this rash on my wrist then my ankles. Then the rash turned to like rot really. Nasty. I thought was the paint. I was sure. Of course I didn't want to hear that. What else am I gonna do? Im cooked here.

I put it off and put it off, didn't want to hear it. I was allergic to the paint. Meanwhile parts of my body were rotting off of me, 
Finally I go to the doctor. Psoriasis- not that big a deal and certainly not from the paint. This cream cleared it right up.

No doctors are going to weigh in on the PT. when it gets uncomfortable enuff, go see one, liable to be a easy fix.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

yobcdarryl said:


> I am a Painter for over 30 years and never had any issues with my health until now that I have been applying PPG Low VOC paints. It burns my eyes and has irritated my skin on arms, neck and face. It is now to the point that until I get answers from PPG that I will not be using Low VOC anymore. I have seen a doctor about my arms tat have red spots and he says I am allergic to something. I sprayed a apt. duplex this week in high humidity and with the sweat and paint it burned my eyes and face that I look like I was in a boxing match.
> Has anyone have same issues.


Could be the ammonia that has been on the increase in the low voc paint's this year. You actually need a respirator more for the low voc paints then you do the non low voc paints. Remember, as long as the duckies and the birdies are safe the EPA doesn't give a crap about your health.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> Could be the ammonia that has been on the increase in the low voc paint's this year. You actually need a respirator more for the low voc paints then you do the non low voc paints. Remember, as long as the duckies and the birdies are safe the EPA doesn't give a crap about your health.


I think painting, to many, is an innocuous and simple act. But they fail to realize that painting is about as close to working in a lab with chemicals and raw materials than most of the other trades. And at the same time we are supposed be protecting ourselves, we also have to protect others.

Sure, the plumber may sweat some pipe, and the roofer may mop on some hot tar, but never to the extent where they are affecting large enclosed areas like staining kitchen cabinets can for instance. And it's not to say that other trades don't have their immediate hazards like electrocution, falling, or loss of appendages from machinery and equipment, but the potential for injury due to the length of exposure to chemicals, makes it even more important to consider PPE when painting.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> I think painting, to many, is an innocuous and simple act. But they fail to realize that painting is about as close to working in a lab with chemicals and raw materials than most of the other trades. And at the same time we are supposed be protecting ourselves, we also have to protect others.
> 
> Sure, the plumber may sweat some pipe, and the roofer may mop on some hot tar, but never to the extent where they are affecting large enclosed areas like staining kitchen cabinets can for instance. And it's not to say that other trades don't have their immediate hazards like electrocution, falling, or loss of appendages from machinery and equipment, but the potential for injury due to the length of exposure to chemicals, makes it even more important to consider PPE when painting.


Remember in the good old days, painters had a life expectancy of less the 40 years because they would mix their white lead paint by hand! Things are quite a bit safer, but not so much that personal protection should be ignored.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Seems like paint is one of the most chronically ignored products in terms of user safety that's ever existed. It has consistently been dangerous and toxic since its very inception, and has a long way to go before that changes.



yobcdarryl said:


> I am a Painter for over 30 years and never had any issues with my health until now that I have been applying PPG Low VOC paints. It burns my eyes and has irritated my skin on arms, neck and face. It is now to the point that until I get answers from PPG that I will not be using Low VOC anymore. I have seen a doctor about my arms tat have red spots and he says I am allergic to something. I sprayed a apt. duplex this week in high humidity and with the sweat and paint it burned my eyes and face that I look like I was in a boxing match.
> Has anyone have same issues.


This likely has nothing to do with Low VOC specifically and more to do with an individual ingredient that you're allergic to in that specific paint. Definitely always talk to your healthcare provider about stuff like this. If the paint is causing you pain, stop using it. If you have to finish the job, either get some good protective gear or get someone else to finish for you (if you need to stick with the same product). Some paints, like Natura, specifically focus not only on No-VOC but also on being non-toxic and hypoallergenic.


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## Surreal Painting (May 10, 2015)

Had gone through training in the Auto body industry. Learned a few things from there that I kept in my head. One of the things I learned is that at first you may not have any irritants to most paints or different things alike. That may change as the years pass. Exposure to chemicals may eventually cause you to become allegoric to it. It's not a guarantee that eventually this happens but it happens to some. This is known in the Auto industry and if not it should be known in this one too. 

This reminds me I don't take proper care to avoid a lot of exposure and that needs to change. 

I've had 1 issue and that was with Ez SandPrimer. After spraying the stuff it really hurt to blink almost like it clogged my tear ducts (sounds lame) also experienced this with sanding MDF (which I avoid now). Spray that stuff with goggles on now.

Personally don't know enough about the low voc thing but none of my clients really have asked about it either.


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## VisionFinishes (Apr 30, 2016)

There's literally no point in applying a low voc latex wall paint. Do zero voc, or just your regular go to. Every latex is pretty much low voc now anyhow because of epa regulations.


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## matt19422 (Oct 2, 2009)

Last time I checked, none of us were getting out of here alive......


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## NACE (May 16, 2008)

PACman said:


> Remember in the good old days, painters had a life expectancy of less the 40 years because they would mix their white lead paint by hand! Things are quite a bit safer, but not so much that personal protection should be ignored.


 I actually mixed it as a kid for a local house painter on Saturdays. White lead paste, linseed oil, japan dryer, turpentine. Lick fingers, lead was sweet. It's actually how I got started in the paintworld.


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## Formulator (May 28, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> I was an early adaptor and tester of the new generation of low and no's.
> 
> Don't trust your "headache" factor any more than you trust what the can says.
> 
> ...


What is a "premium paint"? Many seem to believe that is something from BM, then that makes it "premium". Just because something has a premium price does not make it premium quality.

Most architectural paints are acrylics that dry by evaporative cure. Evaporation is not a chemical reaction... there really shouldn't be a "reaction" happening in these types of paints. 

On the other hand, 2 component epoxys, 2 component urethanes, and alkyds have reactions that are occuring (minimally in alkyds through oxidative cures, but there are reactive metals in them).


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## mDUB562 (Jul 31, 2012)

I could be wrong, but I always thought VOC laws were more about the CO2 put off at the plant making the VOC. I guess you get something living and feed it sugar and as a byproduct you get VOC. The process of those organisms making the VOC puts off more CO2 than a cows ass that's gone sour. I think most these paint companies know we don't mind VOC's, in fact based on the bottle openers they include with the can openers they probably assume most of us go home after a hard days work and drink some VOC's.. like the alcohol found in beer.


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

CApainter said:


> It's not about us. It's about the Planet we're leaving behind to our children.
> 
> I would think by then we would be off to other planets in our solar system and just think how long it would take to get together for Thanksgiving dinner!


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

NACE said:


> I actually mixed it as a kid for a local house painter on Saturdays. White lead paste, linseed oil, japan dryer, turpentine. Lick fingers, lead was sweet. It's actually how I got started in the paintworld.


I worked with an old German and not only did they mix the lead paint, they also ground the white lead in the winter time, getting ready for the spring.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

mDUB562 said:


> I could be wrong, but I always thought VOC laws were more about the CO2 put off at the plant making the VOC. I guess you get something living and feed it sugar and as a byproduct you get VOC. The process of those organisms making the VOC puts off more CO2 than a cows ass that's gone sour. I think most these paint companies know we don't mind VOC's, in fact based on the bottle openers they include with the can openers they probably assume most of us go home after a hard days work and drink some VOC's.. like the alcohol found in beer.


CO2 (Carbon Dioxide, the gas we exhale) is not the problem for the Ozone (O3). The problem for ozone is with CFC's (Chlorofluorocarbons found in R-22 refrigerants and some paint spray can excelerants). VOC's (Volitile Organic Vapors) from hydrocarbons, are thought to contribute to Global Warming.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Brush said:


> I would think by then we would be off to other planets in our solar system and just think how long it would take to get together for Thanksgiving dinner


My guess, if there were ever an exodus to another planet, would be that all of the people who need to be first in line, FOR EVERYTHING!, will be right there at the door of the space craft. I say, good riddance.


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## mDUB562 (Jul 31, 2012)

There is a lot of debate about what is the actual cause of "global warming" and in some cases if it is even happening. To your point CO2 is all around us and probably not too harmful. However, regulators especially in California like to get out in front of things. A simple google search will demonstrate that they consider CO2 as the major green house gas and just as you exhale CO2 so do most of the organisms used to make VOC's. This is why the paint manufactures are trying to switch to synthetic alternatives. That's just a fancy way of saying the same chemicals are being made without life or breath -> CO2


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

CApainter said:


> My guess, if there were ever an exodus to another planet, would be that all of the people who need to be first in line, FOR EVERYTHING!, will be right there at the door of the space craft. I say, good riddance.


Gee, I would think you'd be leading the charge like Moses at the parting of the Red Sea!


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

Oh. and heads up everyone CA is going to live as long as Methuselah, cause he don't eat no fricken potato chips!:surprise:


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Brushman4 said:


> Gee, I would think you'd be leading the charge like Moses at the parting of the Red Sea!


I'm not the one having taco chips delivered to my house because I lost my place in line at Walmart. lol!


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Brushman4 said:


> Oh. and heads up everyone CA is going to live as long as Methuselah, cause he don't eat no fricken potato chips!:surprise:


Tell me you have a Farmer's Market in your area. You really have to try these things called apples.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> Tell me you have a Farmer's Market in your area. You really have to try these things called apples.


APPLES! The ones i get aren't coated with insecticides and wax. In fact, i can stop at one of four apple trees between my house and the general store and grab all that i want! They actually grow wild in Ohio, thanks to good old John Chapman!


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

CApainter said:


> I'm not the one having taco chips delivered to my house because I lost my place in line at Walmart. lol!


 Pay attention! Potato chips and taco meal kits, not taco chips


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

It's funny reading these posts and glancing up at the thread title. 

Non waxed apples and low voc tater chips.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

VOC's and food have a lot in common, have you never pigged out on beans or cabbage? If you have you'll know all too well about them.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Are farts voc complying? Methane and a bunch of other stuff. I hope they don't start regulating them or i am in big trouble. They'll probably make me sleep in some kind of methane catching tent or something.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

PACman said:


> Are farts voc complying? Methane and a bunch of other stuff. I hope they don't start regulating them or i am in big trouble. They'll probably make me sleep in some kind of methane catching tent or something.




Maybe they'll come up with some kind of human catalytic converter. Similar to a CPAP machine but for the other end.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

The natural gas company in the City of Chicago is People's Gas, they may well have used PAC's idea!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Brushman4 said:


> The natural gas company in the City of Chicago is People's Gas, they may well have used PAC's idea!


There is actually a company in Europe somewhere (Denmark i think) that is collecting human urine to make fertilizer out of. :surprise:


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## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

Available stateside. 


https://www.milorganite.com/using-milorganite/what-is-milorganite


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

sayn3ver said:


> Available stateside.
> 
> 
> https://www.milorganite.com/using-milorganite/what-is-milorganite


Close! But what i am talking about is a company that actually collects human urine in tanks from peoples homes and public restrooms! But it makes sense to do it either way. The amish use animal poop as fertilizer so i guess there really isn't much difference. It's got to be better than all the chemicals they use now!


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## illusionsgame (Aug 1, 2010)

I only really read the first post by BreatheEasyHP, but I would argue with anyone who disagrees that these big paint companies would lie to us: they are really only concerned with money, not our health. I know a respirator is a bit uncomfortable, but if I'm not in a well ventilated room, even with so-called "zero VOC" paint, I'll put on my respirator. I used to think if it did not stink I was ok, but I don't think that that was very smart. When you think about it, a chemical cartridge is not a big cost compared to your lungs and your life.

My Ben Moore local managers says all paints and tints in the store are zero VOC, but not counting the oils for decks etc. 

I just don't believe it can be true: anyway, they will find some other carcinogen later that is still unknown now.

I wear the Bleepin' respirator man!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

illusionsgame said:


> I only really read the first post by BreatheEasyHP, but I would argue with anyone who disagrees that these big paint companies would lie to us: they are really only concerned with money, not our health. I know a respirator is a bit uncomfortable, but if I'm not in a well ventilated room, even with so-called "zero VOC" paint, I'll put on my respirator. I used to think if it did not stink I was ok, but I don't think that that was very smart. When you think about it, a chemical cartridge is not a big cost compared to your lungs and your life.
> 
> My Ben Moore local managers says all paints and tints in the store are zero VOC, but not counting the oils for decks etc.
> 
> ...


i can tell you that some of the most dangerous chemicals associated with paints are almost completely odorless. I worked in a plant that dealt with isocyanate catalysts for years. They are almost completely odorless and can be extremely detrimental to long term health. Burning isocyanates was one of the big issues that caused the federal lawsuit back in the 90's that exposed area 51.


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## illusionsgame (Aug 1, 2010)

My worry: what have we been breathing since the 70s. Uff


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

illusionsgame said:


> My worry: what have we been breathing since the 70s. Uff


Yeah no kidding! Like leaded gasoline and stuff!


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## Drew007 (Oct 4, 2017)

Anyone notice how the gov doesnt talk to much about Global warming anymore? Scam?


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## illusionsgame (Aug 1, 2010)

It's not all BS. But it is misleading. I did a lot of reading on this in prep to make a blog post... my stupid painting website...I try to give advice to homeowners in my new retirement.... VOCs are cancer causing so a wide berth is called for: respirators and ventilation on our part as painters.... But the hidden danger is the colorants. A "zero VOC paint" is toxic when you dump lotos of toxic tint into it...duh. I will try to add my post to this reply... Don't know if I am allowed... My website is not for you guys, but for amateurs. 

Anyway, please take precautions and dont[' trust the government!
https://www.bradthepainter.com/low-voc-paint/


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

illusionsgame said:


> It's not all BS. But it is misleading. I did a lot of reading on this in prep to make a blog post... my stupid painting website...I try to give advice to homeowners in my new retirement.... VOCs are cancer causing so a wide berth is called for: respirators and ventilation on our part as painters.... But the hidden danger is the colorants. A "zero VOC paint" is toxic when you dump lotos of toxic tint into it...duh. I will try to add my post to this reply... Don't know if I am allowed... My website is not for you guys, but for amateurs.
> 
> Anyway, please take precautions and dont[' trust the government!
> https://www.bradthepainter.com/low-voc-paint/


 
What's mis-leading, are some people's notion that VOC regulations are in place for human health concerns. They are not. They are primarily in place for the health of the ozone layer. Which I suppose indirectly impacts human health. But huffing low VOC paint is still not safe.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

illusionsgame said:


> It's not all BS. But it is misleading. I did a lot of reading on this in prep to make a blog post... my stupid painting website...I try to give advice to homeowners in my new retirement.... VOCs are cancer causing so a wide berth is called for: respirators and ventilation on our part as painters.... But the hidden danger is the colorants. A "zero VOC paint" is toxic when you dump lotos of toxic tint into it...duh. I will try to add my post to this reply... Don't know if I am allowed... My website is not for you guys, but for amateurs.
> 
> Anyway, please take precautions and dont[' trust the government!
> https://www.bradthepainter.com/low-voc-paint/


Unless it is a true 0 voc colorant! Like Trillion! ZERO VOC's.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

and "all of sherwin williams' non-oil based retail paints are certainly NOT 0 voc! Sorry. Not true.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

And an update! GOODY! There is soon to be or there already is a crackdown taking place regarding "0 voc" paints. As i may have stated on PT in the past, there technically is no such thing as a "0 voc" paint. Some companies have taken advantage of a technicality in the labeling requirements and labeling what are actually a "low voc" as "0 voc" paints. Well not for long gringos! California is in the process of re-labeling some of their older "0 voc" as "less than 50 g/l voc" or "low voc" as we speak. It is only a matter of time before the other companies follow suit. (this has actually been something that has been going on since the late 80's when SW sued Vista paint for labeling a product as 0 voc when it actually wasn't) I guess it isn't a change in the laws or rules, just a clarification of them so it may take some time to see the results of this. But basically paint cannot be marketed, labeled, or promoted as "0 voc" anymore.

That being said i'm sure there will be a certain couple of manufacturers that will get away with it.


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## dennisconstruction (Jul 10, 2018)

*VOCs are green*

Buy eco-friendly paint with low-VOCs or zero-VOCs:smile:


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## The Montana Painter (Dec 2, 2018)

Interesting comments !! Seems that I need to be a little more diligent concerning the voc /no voc information....i prefer premium paints also and do not like the 0 voc products that I have used !! Seems that my body has told me it didn't like the new( better???) Paint... after 35 years of full time painting I tend to listen very closely to what my body tells me


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## NTE (Mar 22, 2019)

Illusion...the hidden danger is that zero voc paint is made with dozens of unregulated voc's and other dangerous ingredients that are harmful to humans. As other people have said, voc's are only regulated due to low level smog, not for any direct human health issues. The colorants are really the absolute least of the worry. For the record, while some voc's can be considered carcinogens, most aren't. Your post is what's misleading.


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## EveryDay (Mar 23, 2019)

*"Illusion...the hidden danger is that zero voc paint is made with dozens of unregulated voc's and other dangerous ingredients that are harmful to humans."*

Very interesting and alarming statement.
Please elaborate and post some data supporting your claim.
I'm suspecting that you might be correct but love to see some proofs if possible.
Thanks


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

EveryDay said:


> *"Illusion...the hidden danger is that zero voc paint is made with dozens of unregulated voc's and other dangerous ingredients that are harmful to humans."*
> 
> Very interesting and alarming statement.
> Please elaborate and post some data supporting your claim.
> ...



Just go open a can of Behr and take a good whiff.


plenty of solvents exempt from VOC regulations in products your likely to find on the paint counter. formaldehyde, acetone, methylene chloride, ammonia... just to name a few.


waterborne does not mean solvent free.


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## EveryDay (Mar 23, 2019)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Just go open a can of Behr and take a good whiff.
> 
> 
> plenty of solvents exempt from VOC regulations in products your likely to find on the paint counter. formaldehyde, acetone, methylene chloride, ammonia... just to name a few.
> ...


I agree, Behr and many other paints smell/stink bad. 
But are those bad smelling chemicals are all bad for humans to breathe during application or few days-weeks after it.
Tho my question for that poster was about his statement that Zero VOC paints might also be full of dangerous crap but they smell/stink much less:
"Illusion...the hidden danger is that zero voc paint is made with dozens of unregulated voc's and other dangerous ingredients that are harmful to humans."

What if in few years scientist will tell us that the chemicals used to reduce bad smell and VOC in high quality paints (like in BM paints for example)
are actually worst or as bad as the previous ingredients?
What then. 
Do we know if the replacement ingredients were properly checked?
Maybe they are safe and OK on it's own but what when mixed with dozens of other chemicals and they become 'silent killers' ..that don't smell bad or at all. 
Let's hope that's not the case.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

EveryDay said:


> I agree, Behr and many other paints smell/stink bad.
> But are those bad smelling chemicals are all bad for humans to breathe during application or few days-weeks after it.
> Tho my question for that poster was about his statement that Zero VOC paints might also be full of dangerous crap but they smell/stink much less:
> "Illusion...the hidden danger is that zero voc paint is made with dozens of unregulated voc's and other dangerous ingredients that are harmful to humans."
> ...


 Then some other unregulated chemical will takes its place. BPA for instance, but is actually still used in the coatings industry so maybe a bad example 



difference between low/zero voc and older paints:

ethlyene glycol very toxic
proplyene glycol essentially non toxic.


Next your going to tell me bacon and other smoked/cured meats cause cancer. They do but until someone has a good alternative I will eat them anyway.


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## EveryDay (Mar 23, 2019)

cocomonkeynuts, do you have comments feedbacks on this:
https://www.painttalk.com/f2/opinions-corotech-clear-acrylic-sealer-v027-93463/

Please post your response in that thread, not here so not to "pollute"


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## NTE (Mar 22, 2019)

CApainter said:


> What's mis-leading, are some people's notion that VOC regulations are in place for human health concerns. They are not. They are primarily in place for the health of the ozone layer. Which I suppose indirectly impacts human health. But huffing low VOC paint is still not safe.


This is the most accurate statement yet. When the EPA started to regulate VOC's because of outdoor air pollution, the paint and coatings industry lobbied hard to get ammonia, acetone and butyl acetate de-regulated because these carbon based molecules dont react with nitrogen and UV to create ozone. So they can be used in zero VOC paint formulations without having to be listed on the SDS. If you are buying or selling zero VOC paint under the guise of human heath concerns, you are sadly mistaken.


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