# Eggshell Paint disclaimer



## akrause (May 18, 2010)

It's no secret that architects *never* spec flat paint for walls anymore. And, while we're stating the obvious, Eggshell doesn't touch up. So, here's what's been happening to us on tenant build out jobs. We bid 3 coats and end up doing almost 5. (1) full prime new GWB (2) spot prime the drywall guys point up which ends up being almost another entire coat of primer (3) 1st coat egghsell (4) another round of spot priming point up (5) "finish" coat eggshell. Then, the new tenant walks the job with the GC and blue tapes the F**** out of the job, the point up guys come back through the entire job again and I have to fight the GC for a ticket to repaint the whole place again. I'm thinking of adding an "Eggshell Paint" disclaimer to my bids that states (in a very polite and diplomatic manner) that 3 coats means 3 coats. I always feel like we're damned if we do and damned if we don't. We either piss the GC off and risk loosing the business or end up damned near breaking even on the jobs. I can stay at home and *not* make money, I'm tired of being taken advantage of.
Do you think adding the disclaimer is a waste of time?


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

What brand of paint are you using?

When I type an estimate that starts 2 coats that's what they get, if there is a coverage issue it depends on what brand and line of paint are speced out. If it's not what we recommend then any additional coats are an extra, if it was a paint line we recommended we will touch up the walls, eggshell will touch up on fresh walls I do it all the time. If it needs an additional coat we will charge for it.

If no paint was speced out and YOU grabbed it, I would say one additional coat is on you, any additional coats will have to be worked out with the GC (leave the HO out unless they hired you and not the GC)


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Seems to me that if you are bidding for three coats but typically end up doing five for no extra money, it would be the GC's loss if you were to look elsewhere for work - not yours. The arrangement you have now is one sided and you need to correct it whether through a "disclaimer" or a contractual agreement stating that three coats means exactly that. It might surprise you how much less blue tape gets put on the walls if it's understood that's what you will do, and only that, for the agreed upon price.


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## Boco (May 18, 2013)

You need better pointers. Stop being Mr. Nice guy.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

use better paint unless they are going to pay for your labor. Otherwise they are taking advantage of you big time.


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## Joshua1304 (Jun 10, 2015)

Switch to 200 Low Gloss Eg-Shell. I've yet to see an issue with touch up after one coat contractors 152 primer and one coat finish that has been sprayed and back rolled.


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## Gracobucks (May 29, 2011)

What kind of paint are you using? We touch up eggshell all the time and rarely have a issue. 

What stage of construction do you apply your finish coat? We do not finish any walls until all the other trades are compete. This really cuts done on touch ups for us.


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

Stand up for yourself. No one else will if the GC is stroking you like that your job is not secure anyway they will replace you at the first hiccup. All mass build GC have one concern their bottom line not anyone else and will burn thru as many contractors as needed to keep it.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I thought this is how all new construction works? Last one we did after the trim carpenter finished tearing off and redoing his poor install, the floor guys did their damage, the electricians cut several holes in the wall to move wire and then the owners spotted the entire house. There were over 100 point ups.

My price to paint the interior *doubled*. Contractor hit the roof, we almost got in a fist fight. When he calmed down a few days later I replied hey we painted it twice just like in our contract. These weren't touch ups from errors in applying coatings. After pointing out the trim and drywall finishing deficiencies to his PM he says just paint it. We had 3 dozen pics to show him. Nothing he could do but find some other poor soul to do his work from now on and pay up.

I would say get some direct to client jobs and drop the NC work.


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## akrause (May 18, 2010)

cdpainting said:


> What brand of paint are you using?
> 
> When I type an estimate that starts 2 coats that's what they get, if there is a coverage issue it depends on what brand and line of paint are speced out. If it's not what we recommend then any additional coats are an extra, if it was a paint line we recommended we will touch up the walls, eggshell will touch up on fresh walls I do it all the time. If it needs an additional coat we will charge for it.
> 
> If no paint was speced out and YOU grabbed it, I would say one additional coat is on you, any additional coats will have to be worked out with the GC (leave the HO out unless they hired you and not the GC)


90% of the time we're going straigh off of spec which is either Sherwin Williams Pro Mar 200 Eggshell or PPG Speedhide Eggshell. Thanks for your input - much appreciated.


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## akrause (May 18, 2010)

Gracobucks said:


> What kind of paint are you using? We touch up eggshell all the time and rarely have a issue.
> 
> What stage of construction do you apply your finish coat? We do not finish any walls until all the other trades are compete. This really cuts done on touch ups for us.


The short answer is we apply it when the GC tells us to. The bottom line is I've gotta stand up to these GC's more as pointed out by several others here in the forum. We're in a HUGELY competitive market (baltimore/dc) and there is always a cheaper guy standing by to take the work. However, I can't let that cause me to work for nothing - it's just not worth it.


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## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

I had a GC who insisted on applying UNFINISHED trim to walls that we had already coated twice per his instructions. What a mess, trying to apply stain and clear coats without splattering any on our (to us anyway) finished walls. I said, "You do this one more time and I walk." It felt so good walking away after he did it again. Never looked back, no regrets, much happier in the repaint market.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

I love the GC we are working with now. He tells all other trades when an area is finished being painted and to leave their gd grubby hands off. It is all an extra to touch up if it's not a paint defect.

In our local work area all gc's would argue over grubby hand prints and it being just a touch up, these guys it's not work fighting with, we simple will not do their work.

Myself with the exception of 3 gc's I refuse to work for any others. Once a gc treats you like you should be why the heck would you want to work for one who treats you like garbage?


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## CK_68847 (Apr 17, 2010)

On any commercial job, we prime and one coat and wait until the end to final paint. The flooring is usually down without base. The Drywaller will come through and fix any screw ups before the final paint. We will spot prime and put a final coat on and wait for the punch list. We typically spot prime the paint itself unless it's some crazy color. If you are putting on four or five coats it should be a back charge. The only place we put up with extra coats to a degree is hospitals. It seems like it always takes more than two on most of them. We also bid hospitals much higher.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

CK_68847 said:


> On any commercial job, we prime and one coat and wait until the end to final paint. The flooring is usually down without base. The Drywaller will come through and fix any screw ups before the final paint. We will spot prime and put a final coat on and wait for the punch list. We typically spot prime the paint itself unless it's some crazy color. If you are putting on four or five coats it should be a back charge. The only place we put up with extra coats to a degree is hospitals. It seems like it always takes more than two on most of them. We also bid hospitals much higher.


 
necro post


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

....


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

The GC I work for painting condos pays me by the hour. I try to tell him to hold off having me paint a final coat when I know that other work he still has yet to do will damage the walls, but if he says to paint, I paint and keep my hours. Sometimes he is not happy when I hand him my invoice, but then I start explaining things to him until he tells me to shut up.........as he is ahnding me my check. 

If I was bidding on work for another contractor on a per job basis instead of on an hourly basis, I would put in the proposal in bold letters something to the effect:

1 coat primer, 2 coats finish. Point ups will be done after the prime coat and, if needed, after the first coat of paint. Final coat of paint to be applied only after all the other trades are done with their work and the final pointing up has been done. If pointing up needs to be done after the final coat of paint, an additional fee of 000.00 will be charged for an additional coat. __________________________
signature of approval

I would also 

Perhaps this would prevent me from getting the bid, but then I wouldn't have the aggravation of painting another coat for free. I hope I never run into this situation.

futtyos


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

futtyos said:


> The GC I work for painting condos pays me by the hour. I try to tell him to hold off having me paint a final coat when I know that other work he still has yet to do will damage the walls, but if he says to paint, I paint and keep my hours. Sometimes he is not happy when I hand him my invoice, but then I start explaining things to him until he tells me to shut up.........as he is ahnding me my check.
> 
> If I was bidding on work for another contractor on a per job basis instead of on an hourly basis, I would put in the proposal in bold letters something to the effect:
> 
> ...


understand that time frame schedules can prevent that from happening. Also, you shouldnt put that in your bid, you put it in your contract after you've already got the job. You have to sit down with the GC and understand what kind of work flow he's going for before giving a price. As long as you know, you can prepare. 

One example of a normal workflow is prep coat<texture<prime and ceilings, like Im doing now)<trim<prep, prime and paint trim<wall paint < then all the other trades, cabinets etc<touch up.

Sometimes you get the GC's who do everything out of whack, and you end up masking cabinets, tile, and flooring, when you werent expecting it. Or, they unexpectedly have tile and cabinets being brought inside right when you get your sprayer set up. If you at least KNOW, you can put in the extra masking in your bid.

The fact is though, its kind of up to you when the final wall coats get done, as long as you're sticking to their schedule. 

Me, I like to prep coat, wait for texture, prime the texture and shoot the lids. Then wait for trim. Do the trim, then do the wall paint, and wait for the other trades to get done, and do touch up. Some painters wait for everything in the house to be done, then come in with a huge crew, and mask everything and paint, to save themselves touch up. I've done that method, and I know for a fact, it takes twice the man hours to mask everything, and the paint job isnt as good.

The job in doing now, with the Gardz issues, I first coated the walls before trim, because I had time in my schedule to do it. However, its more efficient to hold off, then do both coats when you're at that point in the game. But, this particular job is holdup after holdup, so the designer and the HO, like to come in and see color on the walls. It makes them feel like progress is being done. All the same, It would have been better to wait until after the trim gets painted, then do my two topcoats on the walls. I budgeted for a week of touch up, which is WAY more than I'll need.

That being said, ever since I switched to PPG, I havent had any issues with eggshell touching up. Even on smooth walls.


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

Back in the 70's ( I know it was a long time ago), we were knocking out floor after floor of new rock in office towers downtown with one coat of PPG Speedhide flat I believe the product # was 6-90. The architects at that time were to too dumb to figure out you can't spec flat for office environments. We were supposed to be doing a primer coat and 2 finish coats, but the GC's weren't hip to our game. By the time all the other trades came through the flat looked like it went to war. So naturally the super for the general said repaint it all, I'll sign a ticket for it. Cha-ching, nothing but money baby.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*What materials?*



Woodco said:


> understand that time frame schedules can prevent that from happening. Also, you shouldnt put that in your bid, you put it in your contract after you've already got the job. You have to sit down with the GC and understand what kind of work flow he's going for before giving a price. As long as you know, you can prepare.
> 
> One example of a normal workflow is prep coat<texture<prime and ceilings, like Im doing now)<trim<prep, prime and paint trim<wall paint < then all the other trades, cabinets etc<touch up.
> 
> ...


Woodco, do you know what brand and type of drywall mud was used on the house you are describing?

futtyos


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## ECPC Terry (Jul 11, 2017)

Believe it or not, BEHR's pro line (#300 Series) has an eggshell that touches up like a champ!! @$14 a gal too!! Just my 2c worth.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

ECPC Terry said:


> Believe it or not, BEHR's pro line (#300 Series) has an eggshell that touches up like a champ!! @$14 a gal too!! Just my 2c worth.


 
Just say no


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

futtyos said:


> Woodco, do you know what brand and type of drywall mud was used on the house you are describing?
> 
> futtyos


No, I dont. I've never paid attention.


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