# Cabinet spray job.



## Schmidt & Co.

Just a little spray job I fit in last week. Total time on it was 21.75 man hours. Sprayed Bin as the primer and water base Satin Impervo as the topcoat.


----------



## Workaholic

Looks great Paul. :thumbsup:
How many man hours?


----------



## Schmidt & Co.

Workaholic said:


> Looks great Paul. :thumbsup:
> How many man hours?


Thanks Sean. 21.75


----------



## Paradigmzz

Denatured alcohol for cleaning? I know a few outfits that reduce with it...


----------



## Schmidt & Co.

Paradigmzz said:


> Denatured alcohol for cleaning? I know a few outfits that reduce with it...


What do you use?


----------



## Always Learning

Ditto the great result. Huge improvement for the $ vs. new cab install and that is my niche. As finish looks so awesome, how large a job needed to justify the time to clean the spray equipment?


----------



## Schmidt & Co.

Always Learning said:


> how large a job needed to justify the time to clean the spray equipment?


I do it on a case by case basis. I'm pretty quick at cleaning the little pump, about 10 min and 2-3 gallons and its done.


----------



## Paradigmzz

For remodel I use krudd cutter. I will use denatured as well. I found out that a waterborne cleaner such as krudd or simple green does much more than solvent cleaning. Here's my reasoning: I re-polyed a massive kitchen and xylene, alcohol etc was used to clean. Fisheyes in coat. Glad I caught it. Poly takes forever to show Fisheyes. Right about the time you can't do crap to fix it. 

It was the waterborne cleaner that broke the contamination and cleaned them. Thank goodness I caught it on the first 5 not the last 75 cab doors and drawers. I have been a believer since in a good old fashioned cleaning before going to solvents.


----------



## Paradigmzz

I was actually fishing for others opinion on reducing with denatured. I know chemically it breaks down latex, but i have seen some baby smooth finishes produced this way. I don't know what the long term effects are though.


----------



## CliffK

Looks great Paul. That also seems like pretty good time considering the disassembly, masking, prep, priming & reassembly. Did you spray all the doors right on site? I just never had the stones to do all that in an occupied home, give you a lot of credit. When I need mine done I think I'll have the wife call you.


----------



## Paradigmzz

Paul, what's your approach to talking with the homeowner about doing the faces versus the entire cab carcass? I am indifferent, i prefer the whole thing as it takes the same amount of time as the internal masking... Though it doesn't allow immediate reloading of shelves... Which way do you steering homeowners and why?


----------



## Paint and Hammer

Paul....please post these more often.

Nice.


----------



## Wolfgang

Ahem....how much extra did you charge to paint the mug tree?

Just kidding. Looks nice Paul.


----------



## Sir Mixalot

Wow Paul! What a difference.:thumbup:
It really brought the life back into that kitchen. Nice job.:clap:


----------



## Schmidt & Co.

Wolfgang said:


> Ahem....how much extra did you charge to paint the mug tree?
> 
> Just kidding. Looks nice Paul.


LOL @ Wolf! That was a "while you are it Paul" kind of thing. :yes:


----------



## Schmidt & Co.

Paradigmzz said:


> Paul, what's your approach to talking with the homeowner about doing the faces versus the entire cab carcass? I am indifferent, i prefer the whole thing as it takes the same amount of time as the internal masking... Though it doesn't allow immediate reloading of shelves... Which way do you steering homeowners and why?


I much rather prefer to spray the whole box, as I _hate _taping off the openings. This customer was adamant about not doing the inside.


----------



## DeanV

I usually end up doing the faces by hand, no interior, and doors at the shop. I just do not like spraying inside. The overspray seems to settle out everywhere unless you zip wall the entire area, but then it all lands in what you sprayed.

Looks good. I like those kind of jobs.


----------



## Schmidt & Co.

CliffK said:


> Looks great Paul. That also seems like pretty good time considering the disassembly, masking, prep, priming & reassembly. Did you spray all the doors right on site? I just never had the stones to do all that in an occupied home, give you a lot of credit. When I need mine done I think I'll have the wife call you.


Did it all on site. I had a Zipwall up to keep to overspray out of the rest of the room. She also decided to add on the wall painting in the kitchen and attached family room. :thumbup:


----------



## CliffK

Schmidt & Co. said:


> LOL @ Wolf! That was a "while you are it Paul" kind of thing. :yes:


 I thought you were going to say that "it got in the way so we threw it in...":whistling2: lol


----------



## Dunbar Painting

Beautiful job.


Thanks for the detailed pics!


----------



## Schmidt & Co.

Dunbar Painting said:


> Beautiful job.
> 
> 
> How many hours from set up to completion?


From start, to the end of hanging the last cabinet door was 21.75 man hours. She went with new chrome hinges that I had to play around with to get them to fit. That cost me an hour extra.


----------



## HQP2005

Very Nice! :thumbsup:


----------



## Ramsden Painting

Thanks for posting the pics from start to finish. Finish looks great

Sent from my iPad using PaintTalk


----------



## Dunbar Painting

Schmidt & Co. said:


> From start, to the end of hanging the last cabinet door was 21.75 man hours. She went with new chrome hinges that I had to play around with to get them to fit. That cost me an hour extra.



Thanks. I saw you had that in the first post when checking back on the thread, so I edited it out of my post so as not to look like a moron. Unfortunately you got there first.

Either way, thank you for all the detailed pictures and you did a fantastic job.

What is your procedure for spraying the racked doors?


----------



## Schmidt & Co.

Dunbar Painting said:


> What is your procedure for spraying the racked doors?


1st day- is all prep and taping.

2nd Day- is spray the Bin primer. If I take a break and let it dry, I can then spray the 1st coat on the boxes and the backs of the doors. 

3rd Day- spray the 2nd coat on the boxes and do two coats on the fronts of the doors. I can usually get away with one coat on the backs, depends on what my agreement is with the HO. In this case it was one coat on the backs, thereby saving them an additional trip. 

4th day- Pull tape and re-assembly.


----------



## Wolfgang

Schmidt & Co. said:


> LOL @ Wolf! That was a "while you are it Paul" kind of thing. :yes:


Gee. You get mug trees and the "while you're at it's" I got usually involved an extra wall or closet. Best one was a full patio set of table and chairs when I was doing an exterior.


----------



## mpminter

Schmidt & Co. said:


> 1st day- is all prep and taping.
> 
> 2nd Day- is spray the Bin primer. If I take a break and let it dry, I can then spray the 1st coat on the boxes and the backs of the doors.
> 
> 3rd Day- spray the 2nd coat on the boxes and do two coats on the fronts of the doors. I can usually get away with one coat on the backs, depends on what my agreement is with the HO. In this case it was one coat on the backs, thereby saving them an additional trip.
> 
> 4th day- Pull tape and re-assembly.


Did you do this job alone? 21.75 man hours is pretty good time! I would imagine that some of those were short days owing to dry times. I have never done a cabinet refinish yet, but I'm getting ready to do a set before they're installed and I'm looking forward to it! I see you've got the *FESTOOL* fever big time:thumbsup:


----------



## Workaholic

mpminter said:


> Did you do this job alone? 21.75 man hours is pretty good time! I would imagine that some of those were short days owing to dry times. I have never done a cabinet refinish yet, but I'm getting ready to do a set before they're installed and I'm looking forward to it! I see you've got the *FESTOOL* fever big time:thumbsup:


I was not going to comment but he has a few things I need to purchase. CT handle, Systainer paper holder and drill. :notworthy:


----------



## Schmidt & Co.

mpminter said:


> Did you do this job alone? 21.75 man hours is pretty good time! I would imagine that some of those were short days owing to dry times. I have never done a cabinet refinish yet, but I'm getting ready to do a set before they're installed and I'm looking forward to it! I see you've got the *FESTOOL* fever big time:thumbsup:


All on my own, with the first day of prep and taping as my only full day. Its really not that big of a kitchen. Once everything is taped the spraying goes pretty dang fast. 

I sure do need help with my green addiction. :yes:


----------



## ROOMINADAY

Looks Great! Did your estimated time meet your actual? We have been using Advance so we follow the 16 hour recoat times. I have been adjusting my price per box as we do more.

We do the fascia onsite "old school", doors at shop. Bin is a ittle pricey here...59 retail.


----------



## Schmidt & Co.

ROOMINADAY said:


> Looks Great! Did your estimated time meet your actual? We have been using Advance so we follow the 16 hour recoat times. I have been adjusting my price per box as we do more.
> 
> We do the fascia onsite "old school", doors at shop. Bin is a ittle pricey here...59 retail.


Thanks Jeff. I went .50 hours over budget, and futzing around fitting the new hinges is what caused that. Bin IS expensive. My cost now is $60.19 per gallon and I used just shy of two gallons. But its worth it to me because of the quick dry. I can spray the 1st coat on the same day.

As a side note, i started out doing kitchen cabinets about 15 years ago when I got my 1st HVLP. It was a small cup gun Titan. The next one was a three stage Greco with the remote two quart cup. I was never happy with my production ability, and when I found out about the fine finish tips for my airless I put the HVLP's away. Been reading the air assist threads and most likely will go that route next.


----------



## NEPS.US

Looks great Paul. I have a similar job coming up. Any chance to see some more pics of that door tree? I Like it!


----------



## DeanV

If you still have a turbine, you really need to try a PPS cup system for it. I have an old 3 stage one, and the 5 stage I currently have is a lot better. I still feel I can get a better finish in most cases with an airless and a 210, 310 FF tip than an HVLP though on larger items. 

When you are up this way, we should schedule a shop day. You can try out my AAA stuff, HVLP with PPS cups, etc. Better than having to experiment on your own.


----------



## Rcon

Looks great Paul! I always love seeing the transformation, and the white works really nice in that kitchen. :thumbsup:


----------



## LA Painter

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Bin IS expensive. My cost now is $60.19 per gallon and I used just shy of two gallons.


Bin is $39.98 at Home Depot online with free shipping. 

Good job. :thumbsup:


----------



## Paradigmzz

You shot the doors and drawers in the kitchen?!? Didn't you worry about drift and dusting? Ballzy, i like it.


----------



## Schmidt & Co.

NEPS.US said:


> Looks great Paul. I have a similar job coming up. Any chance to see some more pics of that door tree? I Like it!


Just a little home made job.


----------



## Schmidt & Co.

Paradigmzz said:


> You shot the doors and drawers in the kitchen?!? Didn't you worry about drift and dusting? Ballzy, i like it.


I had a fan in the window. No way I could have done it otherwise.


----------



## NEPS.US

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Just a little home made job.


What a great idea! I'm stealing it!:yes:


----------



## Schmidt & Co.

NEPS.US said:


> What a great idea! I'm stealing it!:yes:


Your welcome Chris.


----------



## ROOMINADAY

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Just a little home made job.


Not a bad idea. I needed another erecta rack....but not now. Do the hooks or sharp edges cause you any grief?


----------



## Schmidt & Co.

ROOMINADAY said:


> Not a bad idea. I needed another erecta rack....but not now. Do the hooks or sharp edges cause you any grief?


Not yet. I can always tape them up some to soften the edges if I need to.


----------



## NEPS.US

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Your welcome Chris.


Made my night. :notworthy:


----------



## Schmidt & Co.

DeanV said:


> When you are up this way, we should schedule a shop day. You can try out my AAA stuff, HVLP with PPS cups, etc. Better than having to experiment on your own.


I'd really like that Dean. Been dying to put my hands an a AAA and give it a whirl. I'm going up to Saugatuck with the family again in July, if you had the time I'd be indebted to you.


----------



## DeanV

Schmidt & Co. said:


> I'd really like that Dean. Been dying to put my hands an a AAA and give it a whirl. I'm going up to Saugatuck with the family again in July, if you had the time I'd be indebted to you.


As long as I am in town, consider it a done deal. PM me with your vacation schedule and I will put something on the calendar.


----------



## mpminter

This may seem like a total noob question, but do you spray the doors on the rack, or do you spray them and then put them on the rack to dry? I would think the overspray from one door would mess up the wet door just below it. I love the rack though, and I will definitely be building one!


----------



## Schmidt & Co.

mpminter said:


> This may seem like a total noob question, but do you spray the doors on the rack, or do you spray them and then put them on the rack to dry? I would think the overspray from one door would mess up the wet door just below it. I love the rack though, and I will definitely be building one!


Spray them and then put them on the rack. I like to spray close to the window with a fan I place in it exhausting out. Spray rack is in the BACK of the room.


----------



## mpminter

Once again displaying my ignorance, but do you put some sort of filter element in front of the fan, or is the over spray that leaves via the fan not really a concern? I would love to get into this type of work, but I'm still pretty new to spraying. If anyone wants to put together some sort of video spraying tutorial I would be interested!


----------



## Schmidt & Co.

mpminter said:


> Once again displaying my ignorance, but do you put some sort of filter element in front of the fan, or is the over spray that leaves via the fan not really a concern? I would love to get into this type of work, but I'm still pretty new to spraying. If anyone wants to put together some sort of video spraying tutorial I would be interested!


No filter. Just a regular box fan. Of course you need to tape up all surfaces of the window, and blade the glass when you are done. Just don't forget to remove the window screen first!


----------



## aaron61

Great project.We love doing the cabinets.The lady of the house is always thrilled to see the change.


----------



## CApainter

I'm always impressed with how well organized your work sites are Paul. Nice job!


----------



## Lee Decorating Corp.

Great job. Looks like the way we prep it. Have you ever tried to spray with the "Advance"?


----------



## Schmidt & Co.

Lee Decorating Corp. said:


> Great job. Looks like the way we prep it. Have you ever tried to spray with the "Advance"?


Not yet, although I want to. I want to try it with something with lower pressure than my airless because of its propensity to run. Just to nervous about spraying it right now, although I've brushed plenty. I have a three stage turbine HVLP that needs a new gun, and would rather put the money towards a new AAA Graco.


----------



## Lee Decorating Corp.

We use a 4 stage turbine and HVLP. I would worry about airless spraying of advance too.


----------



## straight_lines

Looks like you made excellent time on that. Great work.


----------



## Damon T

Can't believe I missed the original posting of this. What a great job documenting and executing this job! I can't believe what great time you made on it! I like your homemade spray rack. 









The ventilator from harbor freight is amazing at sucking the fumes and overspray out of a job site. You can get a hose that fits over it, and it's long, so you can have it on the floor under your spray setup, and run it out a window. Much more power than a box fan. Just wanted to share that tip. I really appreciate your detailed posting of this Schmidt!


----------



## 1963 Sovereign

What is kept in the largest festool box on the far left..?


----------



## Schmidt & Co.

1963 Sovereign said:


> What is kept in the largest festool box on the far left..?


Thats the cleaning kit. It has a larger diameter hose, poles and all the cleaning attachments.


----------



## 1963 Sovereign

ok,I googled the cleaning kit,I think it runs around 80.00 was it worth it ? is there adequate storage space in it?


----------



## Schmidt & Co.

1963 Sovereign said:


> ok,I googled the cleaning kit,I think it runs around 80.00 was it worth it ? is there adequate storage space in it?


This is the one I got. 
Amazon.com: Festool 497702 Universal Cleaning Set: Home Improvement

It an expensive cleaning set that works as its supposed to. Nice not trying to jerry rig something to try and save some money. Trust me, I thought about it. :yes:


----------



## 1963 Sovereign

ahh yes,a much bigger storage case,makes sense to me ..thank you for the post !!


----------



## TERRY365PAINTER

Does the 75 handle really help out all that much ? 
Cuz I was wondering about getting one . Cuz I already crack my front shroud on mine . 😪
From loading and unloading the van .


----------



## MAK-Deco

why WB Impervo?and not Advance? also that had to stink as high hell with using Bin...


----------



## Schmidt & Co.

MAK-Deco said:


> why WB Impervo?and not Advance? also that had to stink as high hell with using Bin...


I'm still new to Advance and didn't want to experiment on this one. Would rather spray it for the first time on a smaller job. I seriously thought about it, but then decided to stick with what I knew.


----------



## MAK-Deco

Schmidt & Co. said:


> I'm still new to Advance and didn't want to experiment on this one. Would rather spray it for the first time on a smaller job. I seriously thought about it, but then decided to stick with what I knew.


fair enough, cheers...


----------



## DeanV

I like advance, but still am hesitant to spray it. Never really done the tack coat thing with other finishes and even light coats want to sag.

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Paint Talk


----------



## Schmidt & Co.

Thats kind of where I'm at Dean. I'm just nervous about getting runs when spraying. I want to test it out, but when I have the time to fix any fvck ups.


----------



## DeanV

Bring anything waterborne you want to spray over this summer through airless or aaa. Any kind for hvlp. Let me know what you want to spray and I will try to have suitable sample doors and scraps.

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Paint Talk


----------



## Schmidt & Co.

DeanV said:


> Bring anything waterborne you want to spray over this summer through airless or aaa. Any kind for hvlp. Let me know what you want to spray and I will try to have suitable sample doors and scraps.
> 
> Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Paint Talk


Thanks Dean. I'd really like to try out some cabinet coat. :yes:


----------



## MAK-Deco

We have sprayed Advance through the Graco Proshot a few times, a couple of thin coats on pre primed doors and it looked good.


----------



## ROOMINADAY

sprayed advance this week on a 7 foot tall cab 3 light coats with a 440i 411 FF no runs or sags.


----------



## TERRY365PAINTER

Waiting for the carpenter to finish . Sold a big cabinet job. Spec it with advance . Need a polished finish hesitate with advance even though I have sprayed it on 3 jobs already . 
Thinking about switching to oil . My only concern 
Is dealing with day time . But oil too dry time ! 
Rooming what was your dry time like .


----------



## straight_lines

Sprayed some doors with it this morning. Just follow the tips I have posted many times and you will be fine. 

Wet


And about 2 1/2 hours cure with fans.


----------



## ROOMINADAY

TERRY365PAINTER said:


> Waiting for the carpenter to finish . Sold a big cabinet job. Spec it with advance . Need a polished finish hesitate with advance even though I have sprayed it on 3 jobs already .
> Thinking about switching to oil . My only concern
> Is dealing with day time . But oil too dry time !
> Rooming what was your dry time like .


Way faster than oil. Within a couple of hours depending on how heavy you spray. I find when we brush it it takes less than an hour. We still wait 16 hous between coats.


----------



## Lambrecht

I sprayed PPG Breakthrough Satin on a cabinet repaint last week. Never used it on cabinet job before and was a little on the fence even after doing a sample door because it is a little on the thin side for vertical hold. First coat ran in a few places but sanded easily once dry. Final finish turned out great. Dry time for recoat was less then an hour. Was impressed with its blocking, coverage, and adhesion. The quick dry time made for great production time. 25 doors, 10 drawers, frames, masking, set-up, sanding, and break down was 1 man @ 36 hours.


----------



## playedout6

Thanks everyone...a very informative thread and I envy all you guys that really can do great spray projects . :thumbsup:


----------



## ROOMINADAY

playedout6 said:


> Thanks everyone...a very informative thread and I envy all you guys that really can do great spray projects . :thumbsup:


I am still a hack with a sprayer....! Lots of trial and error.


----------



## playedout6

ROOMINADAY said:


> I am still a hack with a sprayer....! Lots of trial and error.


 Jeff...our Liability Insurance Broker won't even cover us for spraying because of a claim we had over 10 years ago . It was an accident...came to a corner on an exterior spray job and we had a shift of wind...parking lot over 100+ Ft away...I'm sure you can use your imagination on the rest of the story . Yeah...it was a lack of experience thing for sure...and our fault .


----------



## ROOMINADAY

Could you do that again... around our CRV....


----------



## painting247

nice work!


----------



## Paintmeup

Would you consider a full gloss enamel finish on the c/b doors? Its Extra heavy duty wearing and a cool mirror finish! 

if you spray ur primer and under coat, festool it flat. then brush in your enamel. (Spraying enamel is messy so I brush it in). Enamel flattens out as per your sprayed under coat and looks like 2pack.


----------

