# Chemical Odor from BIN Shellac



## professor_lin (Oct 25, 2017)

Hi all -- does anyone know how long the chemical odor should take to dissipate within a room? We applied a coating of "Zinsser B-I-N Advanced Synthetic Shellac Sealer" to remove the smell of a previous tenant's cigarette smoking smell. This was applied to walls and ceiling, and it worked -- the smoke smell is gone, but is now replaced by the strong smell of epoxy from the sealer. It has been there for about 5 days now.

We did not apply any paint coating over the sealer. I'm wondering if this chemical smell will dissipate, and how quickly. Also is the odor harmful (room is a bedroom)?

thanks!


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## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

This post sounds strangely like one posted over on the DIY site. I've used B-I-N for as long as it has been on the market. It smells to high heaven. It will continue to smell as the odor seems to find its way into carpet, curtains, just about anything that may be in the room being primed. If you don't believe that, take a whiff of your clothing a day or so after you apply the B-I-N to the walls. Having said all of that, once it is topcoated and after a few days, it seems to dissipate and then finally fade away.

I ALWAYS have a fan running when applying B-I-N and even let it run for several days to ensure that it dries well, and to keep air moving to the outside to help dissipate the odor.

I've never had a customer complain about the smell after the B-I-N has been topcoated. Maybe for a day or so they smell it, but once the job is done, everything is fine.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

BIN advanced synthetic. Just another way to say "we haven't got anything better. so use this."


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

There's a chance you trapped solvents under a premature film formation. BIN, in general, is recommended to be applied at roughly 4-5 mils WFT. DFT at 1.5-02. Airless spray enables over application if you're not careful.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

CApainter said:


> There's a chance you trapped solvents under a premature film formation. BIN, in general, is recommended to be applied at roughly 4-5 mils WFT. DFT at 1.5-02. Airless spray enables over application if you're not careful.



Keep in mind, they're talking about the newer stuff. The synthetic stuff as opposed to the shellac based. There shouldn't be that much of a horrible smell. Not as much as the real stuff anyways.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

I think the synthetic actually smells worse than the original. 

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Rbriggs82 said:


> I think the synthetic actually smells worse than the original.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk


It must - and it must take longer to off-gas too. Synthetic shellac and the real stuff reminds me of margarine and butter. “They” want us to think margarine is just as good as butter and is better for us. But sometimes there’s no substitute for the real thing.


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## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

We did this bedroom today 3 gallons bin ceilings ,walls, trim. As I sit here on my iPad typing guess what I still smell:biggrin:

U can add vanilla extract it helps, also we add the Paint scents that works excellent. BIN is the king of primers yes it smells but it will dissipate eventually.
You might see a few little green men flowing you around for a day or so but that are harmless:vs_laugh:


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*TDS for synthetic BIN*



professor_lin said:


> Hi all -- does anyone know how long the chemical odor should take to dissipate within a room? We applied a coating of "Zinsser B-I-N Advanced Synthetic Shellac Sealer" to remove the smell of a previous tenant's cigarette smoking smell. This was applied to walls and ceiling, and it worked -- the smoke smell is gone, but is now replaced by the strong smell of epoxy from the sealer. It has been there for about 5 days now.
> 
> We did not apply any paint coating over the sealer. I'm wondering if this chemical smell will dissipate, and how quickly. Also is the odor harmful (room is a bedroom)?
> 
> thanks!


Here is the TDS for what you applied:

https://www.rustoleum.com/~/media/D...01_Advanced_Synthetic_Shellac_Primer_TDS.ashx

I have never used it. I don't know how it reacts with nicotine and cigarette smoke residue, but apparently you are discovering just this thing.

There is one thing I know for sure: cigarette smoke can really do a number on a property. So can pets who are not properly cleaned up after or who are too big to be kept in the house (My lungs have been suffering for several days since I finished painting a condo with the dander of 2 pit bulls.)

If the odor doesn't seem to go away anytime soon you might consider renting an ozone generator for a couple of days. Do a little research on how to use such a generator for the purpose you are using it for.

futtyos


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## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

Real shellac has the sweet alcohol smell like a real loose girl at the hole in the wall at 2am. 

Never used the bin2 nor the synthetic after seeing what others posted on here. Find it hard to believe anything waterborne sticks around that long. Or maybe I'm just well adjusted. 

I heard complaints about kilz max with the smell too but I've used that a few times and had no complaints. 

Maybe it's reacting with the odors on the wall. 

Nothings is better to disinfect than alcohol. Use the real bin next time.


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## keithyoto (Oct 8, 2015)

professor_lin said:


> Hi all -- does anyone know how long the chemical odor should take to dissipate within a room? We applied a coating of "Zinsser B-I-N Advanced Synthetic Shellac Sealer" to remove the smell of a previous tenant's cigarette smoking smell. This was applied to walls and ceiling, and it worked -- the smoke smell is gone, but is now replaced by the strong smell of epoxy from the sealer. It has been there for about 5 days now.
> 
> We did not apply any paint coating over the sealer. I'm wondering if this chemical smell will dissipate, and how quickly. Also is the odor harmful (room is a bedroom)?
> 
> thanks!


Did the smell clear?

I've never used Synthetic BIN but jobs I've use real shellac BIN that were topcoated with 2 layers of paint, have taken as much as 2 months for the chemical odor to dissipate. 

My experience: 1 week to dissipate from metal surface, 1 month from wood surface, 2 months from drywall.


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## MIZZOU (Nov 18, 2012)

PACman said:


> BIN advanced synthetic. Just another way to say "we haven't got anything better. so use this."



What's your issue with it?


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

MIZZOU said:


> What's your issue with it?


It sucks compared to the shellac based bin.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

PACman said:


> It sucks compared to the shellac based bin.


Not that I can get it around here, but Jmays experience with it, swayed me away from it. The curdling thing didn't do it for me.


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## MIZZOU (Nov 18, 2012)

PACman said:


> It sucks compared to the shellac based bin.




Didn't see the "synthetic". Yeah I'll stick to the shellac based for sure . I thought you were calling that stuff junk, we were gonna have words . Selective reading... Jezz carry on lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

MIZZOU said:


> Didn't see the "synthetic". Yeah I'll stick to the shellac based for sure . I thought you were calling that stuff junk, we were gonna have words . Selective reading... Jezz carry on lol
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Oh i sure wouldn't want us to have words on the interweb! That would be tragic!:vs_laugh:


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Primers shouldn't reek for weeks after applying a top coat. The probability of the primer being applied too thick in this instance, is very high.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

I find Coverstain or long oil primers might stick around for around a week, but that's it. If BIN smell is still sticking around for for than a handful of hours, something is amiss. Like CA said, maybe put on too thick which would be difficult as that stuff is pretty runny.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Wildbill7145 said:


> I find Coverstain or long oil primers might stick around for around a week, but that's it. If BIN smell is still sticking around for for than a handful of hours, something is amiss. Like CA said, maybe put on too thick which would be difficult as that stuff is pretty runny.


@;

Applying BIN by brush and roller will not build up nearly as much as it can with an airles. Pigmented shellac is designed to be applied at no more than 4-5 mils WFT. That can easily be exceeded due to a propensity of painters to prematurely apply a second coat of BIN because it helps with hide. Problem is, the solvent evaporation skins the first coat so quick that applying a second coat merely closes the first coat lid on the curing film and any further vehicle evaporation. Consequently, trapping vehicle solvents.


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## WestCoast99 (May 8, 2012)

The synthetic shellacs are different than the alcohol solvent "traditional" shellac that most of us are used to. Some of the synthetic shellacs are xylene based like the sherwin williams variant and are non-water clean up (see here): https://www.sherwin-williams.com/document/SDS/en/035777181201/US/

The rustoleum synthetic shellac says it contains Glycol Ethers and Water and styrene copolymer here: https://www.rustoleum.com/~/media/D..._N_Advanced_Synthetic_Shellac_Sealer_TDS.ashx

I have used the sherwin williams product and it stinks worse than anything. Just top coat it as soon as it's had a couple days to dry and the top coat will cover the smell of residual off gassing. It's all nasty stuff, wear an appropriate cartridge mask at least.


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## MrPaint99 (Aug 6, 2019)

Four months after doors, casing, trim, etc were covered using Bin Shellac and then primed with Dunn Edwards acrylic multi-purpose primer, we still have bad chemical odor. The painter did the Bin Shellac coats and waited a little while (took a lunch) and then primed. 



The odor has improved somewhat, but is still present FOUR months later. If there are solvents trapped from the shellac, will they ever get out? Any advice on how to remedy other than replacing sheet rock?


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

MrPaint99 said:


> Four months after doors, casing, trim, etc were covered using Bin Shellac and then primed with Dunn Edwards acrylic multi-purpose primer, we still have bad chemical odor. The painter did the Bin Shellac coats and waited a little while (took a lunch) and then primed.
> 
> 
> 
> The odor has improved somewhat, but is still present FOUR months later. If there are solvents trapped from the shellac, will they ever get out? Any advice on how to remedy other than replacing sheet rock?


I call Bullsh***

Also, why the holy hell would you prime after the BIN? 

Also,#2 Why the hell were you using BIN on sheetrock????

Also #3 Why the hell did you bring up this old of a thread??


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

Wow, it is kind of odd to have an old thread pulled up, but...

I've never had BIN odor hang around for more than a day, top coated or not. As much as it stinks while applying, I always found the odor do dissipate quicker than most coatings. Just my experience of over 40 years and 100's of gallons of BIN.


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## CynLei (Aug 5, 2019)

Genuine shellac odor should be nearly gone when the surface has dried. I’ve never seen it painted on drywall. The porous nature of gypsum could be limiting the product from drying or even be reacting chemically.

What’s the humidity level in the room? Was the Bin thoroughly dry before you painted over it? How new is the can, could it be past it’s (likely indecipherable) expiration date? Shellac has a shelf life of about 1 year despite the manufacturers putting 3 years on the cans.

Is there some reason you painted a primer instead of your color paint over the shellac? 

Cindy


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

I think he's talking about over spray onto the sheetrock. Was it knotty pine or something. Sometimes it's good to double prime that stuff. 
Either way that is weird. Is this new construction or a repaint?


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## Mr Smith (Mar 11, 2016)

The Sherwin Williams shellac primer has much less odor than BIN and it's cheaper.


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## MrPaint99 (Aug 6, 2019)

Thanks for all the replies -- can't figure it out. They only used BIN Shellac on the trim, casing, doors and they sprayed it. That was done because they originally had oil paint (that's what they told me). 





The sheetrock walls were painted previously with some strange collorful patterns (e.g., sky), so they used a Gripper primer on the sheetrock. When they painted the primer, they also end up covering the shellac that was over-sprayed from the base, molding and chair rail. (So yes, you're right FinishesByKevyn).


So basically, the order of application was this: Spray all doors, trim, casing, molding, chair rail with BIN Shellac (2 coats). Let dry for about 30 min. Then painted all sheet (walls and ceiling) with a gripper primer. That all happened in one day.


Came back a week later and did two top coats of the finish colors.


I probably should have opened a new thread, but this is the same issue as this existing thread, so I continued it on (oops).


Humidity is very low -- dry climate in Southwest and windows with fan blowing out have been going for a few months. 



Before painting the walls, no issues. Had two companies come out and check for mold (just in case) and no evidence or test results showing mold or fungus either.


Thanks all for any ideas!


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## CynLei (Aug 5, 2019)

I don’t know about Gripper specifically, but when I’ve used a max grip primer, it smelled terrible! We did another finish over it that also smelled strong, so I don’t know if we could still smell the primer. The whole thing stunk though...for several weeks.

I wonder if adding vanilla or the perfume drops to the paint would have had any masking effect. Plenty of ventilation, fans etc., is the only thing I can suggest to get rid of the odor now though!


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## CynLei (Aug 5, 2019)

Mr Smith, are you referring to the SW genuine shellac or their “like shellac” product? I’ve only used BIN, and have t tried any of the artificial shellac products. I’d like to believe that they’d work the same, it’d be a lot of work if they didn’t!


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

Oh you made it sound like they primed the sheetrock with BIN, then primed it again. 

Anyway, yes, Sherwin has their own real shellac primer. I havent heard anything good about synthetic shellac.


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## MrPaint99 (Aug 6, 2019)

Thanks CynLei. Yeah... it's rather crazy. We're at over four months now and it still stinks. Even painting over. I have no idea what they did and they deny any wrongdoing. All I know is that all my surfaces they pained wreak. May be in a bad spot and have to rip the sheetrock out and start fresh to resolve this one and for all. Would have to sand down or replace all the doors too -- they all smell as well (they painted those too). Major bummer.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

MrPaint99 said:


> Thanks CynLei. Yeah... it's rather crazy. We're at over four months now and it still stinks. Even painting over. I have no idea what they did and they deny any wrongdoing. All I know is that all my surfaces they pained wreak. May be in a bad spot and have to rip the sheetrock out and start fresh to resolve this one and for all. Would have to sand down or replace all the doors too -- they all smell as well (they painted those too). Major bummer.


Before removing all the drywall, I'd be inclined to treat the entrapped solvent smells just like I would cat urine, and smoke odors. I would spray everything out with Zinnser BIN Pigmented Shellac at the recommended WFT at 4-5 mils to create a sufficient vapor barrier. I would not add additional coats of BIN even though the transparency would drive me to want to. I would let that dry completely before using a low odor WB finish.


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## MrPaint99 (Aug 6, 2019)

Thanks CAPainter! Really appreciate the response and the specific details. Yeah... that would make sense to do first. Just to confirm... if using a BIN Shallac, no additional primer over it, just topcoat, correct? 



Also, how long should the BIN Shellac dry before painting over it? I really think they rushed last time when they did the BIN Shellac on the doors and primers... they did two coats on everything and were in/out in a few hours.



Thanks again.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

I like to let my primers dry 24hrs. before recoating..


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

MrPaint99 said:


> Thanks CAPainter! Really appreciate the response and the specific details. Yeah... that would make sense to do first. Just to confirm... if using a BIN Shallac, no additional primer over it, just topcoat, correct?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I like the overnight recoat approach. I also think that keeping the BIN Pigmented Shellac film thickness at it's minimal recommendation, will ensure that all the vehicle solvents have evaporated. I would also make sure that I had plenty of air movement and ventilation that allowed adequate air exchanges.

Often, it is not enough to have a fan circulating in a room, or simply opening a window. When dealing with vapors that have been introduced into a home from paint products, or new building materials that tend to gas off, it is best to exhaust air out of one end of the dwelling while allowing make up air from the other. Climate conditions will have an impact on ventilation efficiency. For example, high humidity will not circulate air as efficiently as low humidity.


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## MrPaint99 (Aug 6, 2019)

Any experience with using an Odor Sealing water based primer like Zinssers product (details below)? Or is that just a waste of time?

Here are some details on Zinsser Odor Sealing Primer:

ABOUT ODOR KILLING PRIMER
Zinsser Odor Killing Primer is a low odor water-based primer that kills existing odors on interior surfaces. It applies white and dries fast to a clear, low sheen finish to permanently seal in odors. Use Odor Killing Primer to eliminate difficult exiting odors from pets (including urine), food, cigarette and cigar smoke, fire, and smoke damage.

Thanks again!


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## Artk (Apr 12, 2021)

MrPaint99 said:


> Thanks CAPainter! Really appreciate the response and the specific details. Yeah... that would make sense to do first. Just to confirm... if using a BIN Shallac, no additional primer over it, just topcoat, correct?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just curious if using that bin shellac helped with your off gassing? I have a similar situation and not sure what to do next..


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Artk said:


> Just curious if using that bin shellac helped with your off gassing? I have a similar situation and not sure what to do next..


Umm. Care to expand on that?


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