# Most durable deck stain?



## PaintProfessor (Feb 28, 2008)

I own a painting company in Wisconsin and I am looking for a very good stain for decks that withstand the cold winters and hot summers. I have been using SW Deckscapes, but I don't think it is very durable.

Has anyone found one that lasts for more than 18 months? I am assuming oil stain lasts longer, unless you have experienced something differently.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

decks need maintenance every 2 yrs. plain and simple. theres no product out there that can do better


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## tedrin (Oct 22, 2008)

PaintProfessor said:


> I own a painting company in Wisconsin and I am looking for a very good stain for decks that withstand the cold winters and hot summers. I have been using SW Deckscapes, but I don't think it is very durable.
> 
> Has anyone found one that lasts for more than 18 months? I am assuming oil stain lasts longer, unless you have experienced something differently.


Flood stain is the best on the market...check it out.


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## BMDealer (Jun 2, 2008)

Look into Sikkens......very, very good products from their transparents to their solids.


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

This is just my opinion but all commercially available oil based stains that meet 250 VOC requirements are lousy. Check out http://www.armclark.com/.

TJ is right on. You have to do maintenance on horizontal surfaces every two years no matter what you use.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

BMDealer said:


> Look into Sikkens......very, very good products from their transparents to their solids.


sikkens..., had a customer show me two sets of steps that had sikkens applied to them. They were all peeled up on two boards, both sets of stairs. The other steps seemed fine. I looked up and saw how the rain pours down from the roof there. The steps in sound condition wouldn't get the rain. Now, if you put sikkens on a deck that sees rain, seems to me its going to peel/fail like any other product. Thats why decks need work every 2 years or so. The only way sikkens is diff imo is that it is film forming, so it looks even worse when it starts to fail on decks.


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## 1977corey (Feb 27, 2009)

I prefer to exclusively use TWP and nothing else, but you have to make sure you don't over apply the product, or else you'll ruin your project and have a nightmare trying to fix your phuckup


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## Rick the painter (Mar 30, 2009)

Cabots


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## jason123 (Jul 2, 2009)

my supplier loves flood . It claims it goes on as an oil primer and a acrylic finish.. Can anybody tell me how it does that??? I liked the opaque stain


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## MNpainter (Jul 17, 2008)

TJ Paint said:


> decks need maintenance every 2 yrs. plain and simple. theres no product out there that can do better



:yes:


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## JJLPainting (May 24, 2009)

jason123 said:


> my supplier loves flood . It claims it goes on as an oil primer and a acrylic finish.. Can anybody tell me how it does that??? I liked the opaque stain


Yea, I've heard that Flood has urethane properties to it. At least that's what the gentlemen at Rodda Paint explained to me... they didn't get in to much further detail than that. 

I did notice however that I had to really clean the brushes good after using the product. Apparently that is the urethane refusing to be water-saluable.

As for how the product lasts, they have a "3 year guarantee" for their solid decking stain - written on the side of the can. Not quite sure if it will make it that long, but here in Washington we have a relatively mild climate so maybe.


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

/\ I have heard flood is good too. I applied some deckscapes waterbased solid on a deck 3 yrs ago and it looks like new still. Seriously. I am not a sw guy per say.. but my uncle who has been painting nearly 40yrs swears by it. All I can say is that the deck is on the north side of the house and still looks great.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

TJ Paint said:


> sikkens..., had a customer show me two sets of steps that had sikkens applied to them. They were all peeled up on two boards, both sets of stairs. The other steps seemed fine. I looked up and saw how the rain pours down from the roof there. The steps in sound condition wouldn't get the rain. Now, if you put sikkens on a deck that sees rain, seems to me its going to peel/fail like any other product. Thats why decks need work every 2 years or so. The only way sikkens is diff imo is that it is film forming, so it looks even worse when it starts to fail on decks.



Most people do not realize that Sikkens has more than one lie of deck stains. SRD is not film forming. Also a lot of people do not know how to properly prepare decks to begin with and are putting semis over semis and thus creating film. Most painters I have come across that are doing decks are clueless.
That is why in the last 10 years there has been an explosion of deck only companys out there.

I do not do too many decks anymore only for people who are willing to pay for it to be done right and maintained on a regular basis.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

MAK-Deco said:


> Most people do not realize that Sikkens has more than one lie of deck stains. SRD is not film forming. Also a lot of people do not know how to properly prepare decks to begin with and are putting semis over semis and thus creating film. Most painters I have come across that are doing decks are clueless.
> That is why in the last 10 years there has been an explosion of deck only companys out there.
> 
> I do not do too many decks anymore only for people who are willing to pay for it to be done right and maintained on a regular basis.


I can't vouch for the prep or proper app methods of what I mentioned. I am almost certain it was NC as the house is only a few years old. I guess what I saw was how water caused the failure of these steps. How do I know? Because the other steps that are shielded from the water are fine. This wasn't a deck, but steps. I was extrapolating how this product would perform as a deck finish, with the majority of it being exposed to rain (and worse, the sun). I don't think it would last in that environment. 

I agree, there are clueless people working on decks. Or maybe its the HO, who won't pay to have it done right. I use to do decks when I was younger and hungry for any job. Now I usually pass on decks, because you can't make any money off them, if you do them the right way. Most HO don't wanna pay 2K for their backyard deck. Also, you really cant expect more than a couple years performance.


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## oakley (Dec 14, 2007)

Flood SWF for a solid finish. Can now be tinted to nearly any Devoe/ICI/Glidden/etc. color. On the downside, SWF takes a long time to dry (24-48 hrs.) Sikkens SRD for semitransparent work.


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## tedrin (Oct 22, 2008)

JJLPainting said:


> Yea, I've heard that Flood has urethane properties to it. At least that's what the gentlemen at Rodda Paint explained to me... they didn't get in to much further detail than that.
> 
> I did notice however that I had to really clean the brushes good after using the product. Apparently that is the urethane refusing to be water-saluable.
> 
> As for how the product lasts, they have a "3 year guarantee" for their solid decking stain - written on the side of the can. Not quite sure if it will make it that long, but here in Washington we have a relatively mild climate so maybe.


To clean your brushes, first rinse them out with water..Then dunk them into regular paint thinner..Then wash with soap and water..


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## jason123 (Jul 2, 2009)

I do almost the same as tedrin for the flood stain wash. I dunk the brush in some poly prep first then wash with soap and water.. A proper prep job should consist of at least a few of these steps /sand/ wash or strip/ sand / clean with a good broom or blower! In my humble opinion.... I Read this article on mill glaze it was informative. One thing they said was that in a lab they couldn't replicate the mill glaze. Fact or fiction?


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## SWGuy (Jun 26, 2009)

If you are in WI, you have to try Rymar Extreme stain. It is made by a company in Wisconsin. You can get it @ SW and will out perform anything thing else I have come across.


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## Rick the painter (Mar 30, 2009)

nEighter said:


> /\ I have heard flood is good too. I applied some deckscapes waterbased solid on a deck 3 yrs ago and it looks like new still. Seriously. I am not a sw guy per say.. but my uncle who has been painting nearly 40yrs swears by it. All I can say is that the deck is on the north side of the house and still looks great.


South or West side it prob. would be toast N Eighter


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Rick the painter said:


> South or West side it prob. would be toast N Eighter


yeah, was going to say the same.


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## NACE (May 16, 2008)

One thought regarding decks is the actual construction, wood or surface type, orientation to the weather, geography, and what is underneath the deck and how close it is to the ground. PT decks usually are the hardest to protect because of the pronounced flat grain, wood density, fastener selection, spacing etc. If a deck is close to the ground, coating all six sides will create dimensional stability and less shrinkage and swelling of the wood, which stresses the coating least. A vapor barrier on the ground minimizes the wood from absorbing ground moisture, that gets drawn into the raw wood and swells the the wood. Ground moistures will get drawn out by the sun. Freeze thaw cycles will create a pot hole effect in fissures in the wood. UV degradation breaks down lignin and cellulose and creates an unstable surface. Horizontal surfaces such as decks break down much quicker than vertical surfaces obviously and therefore require greater maintenance. Alerting customers to the inherent problems associated with decks and managing their expectations about durability and longevity will greatly help when selecting a coating system and brand. Generally, the clearer the finish, the shorter the life. The more opaque, the longer it can last. Film forming stains will last a long time if the wood and its installation minimize its exposures to the elements, including what is underneath, not just what's on top.


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## slickshift (Apr 8, 2007)

PaintProfessor said:


> ...I have been using SW Deckscapes, but I don't think it is very durable.
> 
> Has anyone found one that lasts for more than 18 months? I am assuming oil stain lasts longer, unless you have experienced something differently.





NACE said:


> One thought regarding decks is the actual construction, wood or surface type, orientation to the weather, geography, and what is underneath the deck and how close it is to the ground. PT decks usually are the hardest to protect because of the pronounced flat grain, wood density, fastener selection, spacing etc. If a deck is close to the ground, coating all six sides will create dimensional stability and less shrinkage and swelling of the wood, which stresses the coating least. A vapor barrier on the ground minimizes the wood from absorbing ground moisture, that gets drawn into the raw wood and swells the the wood. Ground moistures will get drawn out by the sun. Freeze thaw cycles will create a pot hole effect in fissures in the wood. UV degradation breaks down lignin and cellulose and creates an unstable surface. Horizontal surfaces such as decks break down much quicker than vertical surfaces obviously and therefore require greater maintenance. Alerting customers to the inherent problems associated with decks and managing their expectations about durability and longevity will greatly help when selecting a coating system and brand. Generally, the clearer the finish, the shorter the life. The more opaque, the longer it can last. Film forming stains will last a long time if the wood and its installation minimize its exposures to the elements, including what is underneath, not just what's on top.


Sikkens
Out here (hanging out about 40 miles into the North Atlantic), it's murder on decks*

With the same prep/product, we can have one side of a house be fine with 3+ years, and the other side of the same house (major bake/mucho ocean/low height/total mold farm) need yearly
Regardless, although the SW DS, C, and BM products are just fine, a properly applied Sikkens will always outlast any/all in the same situation/environment

Depending on the specifics (eg: solid stain/low deck) it can actually be the only thing that works**

* Why I added the NACE post, and add salt water to the freeze/water/bake cycle, and mostly low decks (never dries out under there and the sun bakes the moisture to a vapor that can peel coating-especially solids like a banana) to the mix

**The Sikkens Rubol DEK does not let the water as a liquid penetrate, but allows the ground water underneath that heats up into a vapor (which is what peels almost every other solid coating) to pass through


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

Rick the painter said:


> South or West side it prob. would be toast N Eighter





TJ Paint said:


> yeah, was going to say the same.


that is why I put that in there


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## BMDealer (Jun 2, 2008)

TJ Paint said:


> sikkens..., had a customer show me two sets of steps that had sikkens applied to them. They were all peeled up on two boards, both sets of stairs. The other steps seemed fine. I looked up and saw how the rain pours down from the roof there. The steps in sound condition wouldn't get the rain. Now, if you put sikkens on a deck that sees rain, seems to me its going to peel/fail like any other product. Thats why decks need work every 2 years or so. The only way sikkens is diff imo is that it is film forming, so it looks even worse when it starts to fail on decks.


Sikkens SRD in non film forming unless it not properly applied, one coat good two coats not good. Cetol Dek is a two coat film build process that if the substrate it properly prepped, will not peel, wear maybe but not peel. Maybe the HO thought that some extra coats would help protect those couple of steps better which in turn that is not how the product works.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

BMDealer said:


> Sikkens SRD in non film forming unless it not properly applied, one coat good two coats not good. Cetol Dek is a two coat film build process that if the substrate it properly prepped, will not peel, wear maybe but not peel. Maybe the HO thought that some extra coats would help protect those couple of steps better which in turn that is not how the product works.


Sounds good. Makes sense. I haven't used sikkens products for years. I've been happy with Deckscapes and Diamond Vogel stain products, for decks or siding, and fences.


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