# recommendations for painting over RED



## mikeystool (Mar 23, 2011)

Newby here...hello!...Ive painted many red rooms, with crappy paint, and decent stuff...so opposite experiences...most of the time I was using what the homeowners bought...(my Aura experiences were the best)...I have a job coming up going over Red ceilings, and Red walls..ive never painted OVER red...what paint do you all recommend? I have a customer who really is tight with money, and rather not have him spend too much if possible...thanks


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

(removed by mod)


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

mikeystool said:


> Newby here...hello!...Ive painted many red rooms, with crappy paint, and decent stuff...so opposite experiences...most of the time I was using what the homeowners bought...(my Aura experiences were the best)...I have a job coming up going over Red ceilings, and Red walls..ive never painted OVER red...what paint do you all recommend? I have a customer who really is tight with money, and rather not have him spend too much if possible...thanks



Prime it, paint it, move on. If money is the issue, dont work for a cheap a$$.


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## One Coat Coverage (Oct 4, 2009)

Dude........


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## ligboozer (Oct 13, 2009)

mikeystool said:


> I have a customer who really is tight with money, and rather not have him spend too much if possible...thanks


 
Do it for free.


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## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

I would rather COVER red than paint a room red. I cringe when a customer says, "We're pretty sure we want red in the kitchen........"


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## kingsebi (Jan 27, 2009)

*Be A Professional*

Ask your customer exactly what he wants. Give him a fair price. Not a bargain price. A fair price (what it's worth). If he says ok - paint it. If not move on. Don't give your work away. Your time is valuable! And stop letting homeowners buy the paint! Set up an account and YOU provide the paint. Good paint. Makes your job easier!

Prime it. Paint it twice (probably). Bid for 3 coats, plus materials, and your gas, it's $3.50 a gallon you know!


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Are there paints that wont cover red in two coats? Where have I been.


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

Aura works great for coverage in the other direction too. If it saves you a coat, what's more expensive, good paint or your time? 
But as others have said, its easier to cover it than do get red to cover.


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## dubinpainting (Feb 16, 2010)

Don’t use Bher ceiling paint it is the WORST PAINT EVER!!!!!!! 
I just got done with a job and told the customer to buy Benjamin Moore paint, of course I get there and he had bought a five gal bucket of Bher to re-paint all of his ceilings. This is the worst paint ever. He explained to me how it was top rated on consumer reports, Isn’t consumer reports rated by consumers and not professionals? Needless to say he spent twice as much money for a second coat on all the ceilings and they still came out like ****. You try to be a cheap ass and save money it only cost you more in the end!!!
:no:


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

dubinpainting said:


> Don’t use Bher ceiling paint it is the WORST PAINT EVER!!!!!!!
> I just got done with a job and told the customer to buy Benjamin Moore paint, of course I get there and he had bought a five gal bucket of Bher to re-paint all of his ceilings. This is the worst paint ever. He explained to me how it was top rated on consumer reports, Isn’t consumer reports rated by consumers and not professionals? Needless to say he spent twice as much money for a second coat on all the ceilings and they still came out like ****. You try to be a cheap ass and save money it only cost you more in the end!!!
> :no:


 
Are you just now finding out all this info?


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## Lornmastro (May 7, 2007)

just covered over a burgandy wall with aura matte finish....got to love that paint it came out great with 2 coats!


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

jack pauhl said:


> Are there paints that wont cover red in two coats? Where have I been.


Agreed, most paints will cover just about anything in 2 coats. In the off chance they went from deep red to a light, bright yellow or something, i might think about priming then. The color they choose to cover the red with should determine the need for primer, and the product to be used.


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## mikeystool (Mar 23, 2011)

Thanks for the replies.. I pretty much solved it... Told him I'd recommend aura ... He said too pricey... I said I'll do the job with whatevr you end up buying, but I'm gonna get payed by the hour instead... He agreed to it..again thanks, reading up on a lot of threads, great Info here...


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## Wood511 (Dec 13, 2010)

NCPaint,

I have a RED job coming up also. The red is not deep red...maybe medium red almost orange-ish and on the satin/flat side. They are going over it with a tan. Will ben eggshell LIKELY do this in two coats? I've done ben in brown over pink and two coats did the job, but I haven't tried it in reverse with ben.


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## tntpainting (Apr 3, 2008)

Prime over it and hit it with 2 coats of decent paint not Behr or valspar but any thing from ben or Swp will do er


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## tntpainting (Apr 3, 2008)

Then explain to the cheap arse that hes gonna have to pay u another 5-6hrs labor because he wouldnt let u use aura lol!!!


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

I missed the "tight with money" part. I would use Glidden Professional Ultra-Hide low sheen. I dont care what color you are going over, if you cant get Ultra-Hide 150 to cover over 97% in the first coat then I would hang it up because you'll always be fighting with lowballer guys like myself who can. just sayin 

Why does ceiling paint exist? Just curious. Does ceiling paint do something magical for ceilings like keep spider webs from sticking? Do they not absorb moisture, nicotine, cooking grease and pet odors? hmm What does ceiling paint do?

Ya know... over the years one thing I've noticed is a complete lack of confidence with painters and the products they use regarding coverage. I see it here, other forums, local painters... you name it. Thats unfortunate for those guys. If I need something one coated or near coated I use either Ultra-Hide 150 (meets MPI #44 gloss level 2) or BEHR Ultra and you wont see me complaining about coverage or outrageous costs for paint. Those two products give me complete confidence in coverage. Those commercials you are hammered with arent BS. Seriously. Its time to stop dicking around with paint, its costing you more than you can afford to lose on a bid.

The minute you "think" it might need 3 coats and adjust your bid, there is another guy waiting to bid it in two coats. Being efficient is survival in this business for many of us. You've got to have game and it better be good! </endrant>


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

jack pauhl said:


> I missed the "tight with money" part. I would use Glidden Professional Ultra-Hide low sheen. I dont care what color you are going over, if you cant get Ultra-Hide 150 to cover over 97% in the first coat then I would hang it up because you'll always be fighting with lowballer guys like myself who can. just sayin
> 
> Seriously. Its time to stop dicking around with paint, its costing you more than you can afford to lose on a bid.
> 
> The minute you "think" it might need 3 coats and adjust your bid, there is another guy waiting to bid it in two coats. Being efficient is survival in this business for many of us. You've got to have game and it better be good! </endrant>


So, can Ultra-hide, in deep base red, cover a builders white in two coats without primer?

Is there consensus that aura can do this without a primer? Because, if aura can't do it without primer, there is no savings in labor. 
So, what I'm asking is the opposite of the op. Rather than covering red, I need to put red on white. 
Thanks.


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## JoseyWales (Jan 8, 2011)

prime it?...errr no...No need to prime it; just paint the damn walls again with a good acrylic...Expect 2-3 coats and you're done.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

JoseyWales said:


> prime it?...errr no...No need to prime it; just paint the damn walls again with a good acrylic...Expect 2-3 coats and you're done.


whose question are you answering?


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Paint over with another red??? :whistling2:



JoseyWales said:


> prime it?...errr no...No need to prime it; just paint the damn walls again with a good acrylic...Expect 2-3 coats and you're done.


Exactly. Just tell him it'll take what it takes. Should be three at the most. 
Haven't tried Smart Prime tinted to the new color as a base coat over red. I like how it tints and usually covers pretty well. Don't usually advocate primer over paint just for color blocking but may try this process next time just to see how it works over #@$% red.


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## BigDogPainting (Apr 13, 2011)

"prime it?...errr no...No need to prime it; just paint the damn walls again with a good acrylic...Expect 2-3 coats and you're done."

Couldnt agree more.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

BigDogPainting said:


> "prime it?...errr no...No need to prime it; just paint the damn walls again with a good acrylic...Expect 2-3 coats and you're done."
> 
> Couldnt agree more.


not surprising :blink:


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

If it's a drastic color change, like white over red, ALWAYS PRIME FIRST. Primers have more pigment than finishes, so better coverage, and finishes have more resins. And you can find a good interior drywall primer for around 12.00 a gallon (at least, that's what i sell the P&L drywall primer for.) Then after that, one to two coats, that's up to you. Depends if it's a high traffic area, or if the homeowners likes to wash their walls a lot. I do!


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## DK Remodeling (Mar 22, 2013)

mikeystool said:


> Newby here...hello!...Ive painted many red rooms, with crappy paint, and decent stuff...so opposite experiences...most of the time I was using what the homeowners bought...(my Aura experiences were the best)...I have a job coming up going over Red ceilings, and Red walls..ive never painted OVER red...what paint do you all recommend? I have a customer who really is tight with money, and rather not have him spend too much if possible...thanks


I would prime it first with Zinsser Smartprime and 2 coats of either BM Waterbourne Ceiling Paint or SW Eminence.

If on a budget 2 coats of Kilz Pro 300 Dead Flat.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

I'm pretty sure he figured it out by now.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Okay - I got suckered into posting onto one necro-thread today so I'm not going to... OH DAMN! :cursing:


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

I suppose its good for a new guy to go through old posts- but know what they are. 
Its called paying attention. 
Give it a try.


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## Red Truck (Feb 10, 2013)

I heard he's still waiting at Home Depot :blink:


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## Select Paint (Feb 20, 2013)

I would prime with grey tinted primer work great with reds


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

jack pauhl said:


> I missed the "tight with money" part. I would use Glidden Professional Ultra-Hide low sheen. I dont care what color you are going over, if you cant get Ultra-Hide 150 to cover over 97% in the first coat then I would hang it up because you'll always be fighting with lowballer guys like myself who can. just sayin
> 
> Why does ceiling paint exist? Just curious. Does ceiling paint do something magical for ceilings like keep spider webs from sticking? Do they not absorb moisture, nicotine, cooking grease and pet odors? hmm What does ceiling paint do?
> 
> ...


I couldn't agree more about covering confidence. I posted some pics on another thread of red covered with beigh in one coat. No one seemed to believe me. So many paints claim one coat coverage, not one coat if the color is pretty close, not one coat maybe, or sometimes, just one coat. I used to think this was BS. The real trick is putting it on as thick as the manufactuer says is should be. A full coat of paint will do amazing things. Modern paint is made to cover in one, two at most.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

TJ Paint said:


> So, can Ultra-hide, in deep base red, cover a builders white in two coats without primer?
> 
> Is there consensus that aura can do this without a primer? Because, if aura can't do it without primer, there is no savings in labor.
> So, what I'm asking is the opposite of the op. Rather than covering red, I need to put red on white.
> Thanks.


Yes aura will cover. Most paint will. If you can't get coverage, you are not putting enough paint on.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

joshmays1976 said:


> Yes aura will cover. Most paint will. If you can't get coverage, you are not putting enough paint on.


Thanks man. I actually got this job finished up a while back. 

Going against my gut, I used promar zero instead of aura. I paid for my transgression with extra coats and asking the paint gods for forgiveness.

I ended up charging extra for the extra coats plus I got to see how promar zero would perform in this manner. BTW, I would have charged extra anyways if I used Aura but I still would have saved time. Luckily I didn't have much better to do that day anyway...

Even though I like PM zero, I don't like it for deep base stuff. Btw, it was eggshell. Might have been better performance with flat, who knows. I don't put flat on walls. Some crazy mf's around here do but that's not how I roll.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

TJ Paint said:


> I don't put flat on walls. Some crazy mf's around here do but that's not how I roll.


Same here TJ. 

I know flat it big in some areas but I mainly use it for ceilings. Unless the customer specifically requests otherwise, or there are walls with issues that flat will help minimize, walls typically get eggshell with satin in kitchens and baths.


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## Dunbar Painting (Mar 19, 2010)

I have had terrible luck with PM 200 Zero with colour transitions from dark/mid tones to lighter tones.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I like your style TJ.

Too many one man painting shows put way too much emphasis on their labor hours, as if they have to maintain a certain hourly wage. As a OMS, I would think that at the end of the day its about a problem solved for the customer and a reputation maintained for the contractor, not that your estimated per hour wage went from $50.00 to $35.00. I'm sure its all evened out among different jobs.

BTW- Too many textured interior walls in California to put on anything other then flat. If you saw how texture looks highlighted in eggshell, you'd know what I mean!


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

CApainter said:


> I like your style TJ.
> 
> Too many one man painting shows put way too much emphasis on their labor hours, as if they have to maintain a certain hourly wage. As a OMS, I would think that at the end of the day its about a problem solved for the customer and a reputation maintained for the contractor, not that your estimated per hour wage went from $50.00 to $35.00. I'm sure its all evened out among different jobs.


Totally man. I was planning on being there for the day, and didn't have other work planned to start that day. Sure it would have been nice to finish a couple hours earlier, but it really didn't affect anything. It would have if I had to return the next day, since I had it planned to finish that day. 

The thing is, my new area doesn't have a good BM dealer. It's hardware stores. All the colors that were picked for this job were SW colors as it's the only store in town that is guaranteed competent with color mixing and product availability. If I had gone to the BM dealer, it would have probably taken about the same amount of time to get a color match from them in aura as it did to do the extra coats, and I don't think they even carry aura there last time I checked. So my time would have been eaten up regardless. 

They picked out the colors after I gave them the estimate, so I didn't know if there was a deep base in mind. I stipulated on the estimate that deep base colors may require extra coats and there would be extra charges if so.

But yeah. They were happy, and now I got them as a repeat customer for their exterior.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Sw came out with a red base in the 200 eggshell. I tried it a couple weeks ago and got a bright red to cover in three. I was pretty impressed, it was an accent wall in a bedroom so scrub ability wasnt an issue.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Sw came out with a red base in the 200 eggshell. I tried it a couple weeks ago and got a bright red to cover in three. I was pretty impressed, it was an accent wall in a bedroom so scrub ability wasnt an issue.


what sheen?


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Eggshell


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## clermontpainting (Feb 25, 2013)

just used ultra hide 150 yesterday no primer two coats over flat builders white. deep tint base dark pink color eggshell sheen two coats and it looks perfect:thumbsup:


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## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

BrushJockey said:


> I suppose its good for a new guy to go through old posts- but know what they are.
> Its called paying attention.
> Give it a try.


crankass


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

We have a job starting Mondy we need to cover a deep red wall, paint to Manchester Tan, I already know what we will use and made sure the Ho knew it would be 2-3 coats to cover.


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