# Electronic Cigarettes



## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

I have a couple of guys using these instead of real cigarettes. It is less offensive than real ones. They smell like vanilla, cotton candy, cherry, etc. There is no waste and you can't smell it after 3 seconds. 

I have noticed it sparks the interest of my customers. They will engage one of my employees to discuss what they are. I think the home owners appreciate them. It makes me a little uncomfortable though. Don't know why. 

Does anyone have any experiences with employees and e-cigarettes? 

Positive and negative feedback welcome.


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## Andyman (Feb 21, 2009)

Why do people smoke? What are the benefits?

I think ecigs are tacky. How bad do you really need nicotine? Why not just inject it instead of smoking?


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

My brother and sister in law use these like there going out of style.

Some have nicotine, all have some form if chemical vapor. I don't let them used in my home, or around my girls. The jury is still out as to the harm (or lack there of), keep an eye out on the research

Sent from my SGH-T989D using Tapatalk


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

I tried them, didn't mind them. It does take some getting used to them. It's still one thing we wont let our guys do while working.

No smell except like you said just the flavor smell lingers for a few seconds.


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

I don't smoke. I don't have a dog in the fight. 

Just curious what others thought.


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## mustangmike3789 (Jun 11, 2011)

journeymanPainter said:


> My brother and sister in law use these like there going out of style.
> 
> Some have nicotine, all have some form if chemical vapor. I don't let them used in my home, or around my girls. The jury is still out as to the harm (or lack there of), keep an eye out on the research
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T989D using Tapatalk


propylene glycol... sound familiar ?


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

mustangmike3789 said:


> propylene glycol... sound familiar ?


Nope, still don't want it around my kids. This could be like cigarettes in the '60s. 

Sent from my SGH-T989D using Tapatalk


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## Painter-Aaron (Jan 17, 2013)

I think they are a good alternative for smoking during working hours. 

I don't smoke but my employee used to take a number of smoke breaks, now he just takes a few puffs off of his vapor abd continues to work. 


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Painter-Aaron said:


> I think they are a good alternative for smoking during working hours.
> 
> I don't smoke but my employee used to take a number of smoke breaks, now he just takes a few puffs off of his vapor abd continues to work.
> 
> ...


Gum has become my best friend.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

For those who "need" to smoke, it's a better alternative. The jury is out on long range harm. 

Until they decide it's harmful to the smoker and to those around, it looks like an acceptable way to smoke in no-smoking environments.

If your workers wish to smoke 'em on site, just make sure it is acceptable to the HO

The law makers are scared the marketing (flavoring etc) will get kids addicted to nicotine. Obviously legislation is needed if they do not want certain age groups using them.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

I've been using it for over a year. Not the Blue crap they sell in stores the big pipe looking ones they sell at vape stores. 

Since switching I no longer have the smell and breathing/coughing issues associated with regular smokes.

WAY better and I encourage every smoker that can't quit to give them a fair shake.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

Rbriggs82 said:


> I've been using it for over a year.


If its used as a crutch to quit smoking, why are you still doing it after a year?


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

ProWallGuy said:


> If its used as a crutch to quit smoking, why are you still doing it after a year?


 Quitting smoking and breaking a nicotine addiction are two different things.


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## Northwest_painter (Jan 27, 2012)

To me who does not smoke I think these are just fine I have friends who use them and I see zero problem with them. way safer then smoking tabbaco. It is also 100% less offencive to every one around.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

I dont have a issue with them. I would still expect them to be only used at break time. Im not a big supporter of smoke breaks out side of regular breaks, no one is that special! 

Also, I'm aware of marijuana wax and using pens to smoke the wax. So if I notice your on a ecig, I pay extra attention to the user.


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## Brian C (Oct 8, 2011)

Don't hire employees that smoke. As an employer, I have the right to dictate the work conditions on my job.
I had a guy working for me awhile ago that smoked, and I made him go out of the property onto the street to smoke.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

ProWallGuy said:


> If its used as a crutch to quit smoking, why are you still doing it after a year?


That's why I originally switched and I can see it helping if I REALLY wanted to stop.

You can lower the nicotine levels all the way to zero but the biggest thing is it'll break the routine. There's no such thing as a vape break. Having a vape isn't a 10 thing you go outside for that's needed with coffee, after eating, while driving, after lovin' 

You just take a hit whenever you need to. So in that aspect I can see it helping. My problem is for some reason I liked smoking to begin with. Now my life isn't interrupted, I don't smell offensive, I feel healthier, and at around $30 a month I've lost the desire to kick it. It's smoking without everything bad (that I know of) that goes along with it. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

I'd rather have guys take a few puffs on e-cig to keep them working then having guys getting antsy if they don't get a 10 minute cigarette break every couple of hours.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Rbriggs82 said:


> That's why I originally switched and I can see it helping if I REALLY wanted to stop.
> 
> You can lower the nicotine levels all the way to zero but the biggest thing is it'll break the routine. There's no such thing as a vape break. Having a vape isn't a 10 thing you go outside for that's needed with coffee, after eating, while driving, after lovin'
> 
> ...


Ryan,

I'm all for a safe nicotine fix. Although I do not smoke every day, or even every week, I know I'll be forever addicted. I have been seriously tempted to say WTF and get into e-cigs. But this little voice in my head says time will come and prove that they are not as safe as they are advertised now. 

I would LOVE it if thorough studies discovered that nicotine isn't so bad for the body, it's the present delivery systems that are the killers. At that point I would main line pure unadulterated nicotine. 

But alas, I do believe nicotine is not good for one. And not just because it's addicting.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

After 35 years of smoking, I have been smoke free for 2 1/2 years now. I see people smoking the e cigs, but I really know nothing about them. Call me a hypocrite after 35 years of smoking, but my jobs are "smoke free" and "tobacco free" I can't really say if I would allow e cigs? Probably not.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

PressurePros said:


> I'd rather have guys take a few puffs on e-cig to keep them working then having guys getting antsy if they don't get a 10 minute cigarette break every couple of hours.


Good point :thumbsup:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

One of my fathers least attractive flaws was being an obnoxious reformed smoker.


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## trainbeat (Dec 19, 2013)

E cigs are a godsend for a lot of people who find it very difficult to break their nicotine addiction.
I use snus myself, love it.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

I liken nicotine to caffeine minus the tasty/non harmful delivery system. :yes:

As for safety, I know it's WAY better than what I was doing so that's a plus. Will there be studies saying it's bad, prolly. Seems like every week coffee is great then harmful. Same for chocolate, caffeine, wine, beer, and everything else. From what I've read the main ingredient is what's used in for machines and deemed safe by the FDA.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

epretot said:


> I have a couple of guys using these instead of real cigarettes. It is less offensive than real ones. They smell like vanilla, cotton candy, cherry, etc. There is no waste and you can't smell it after 3 seconds.
> 
> I have noticed it sparks the interest of my customers. They will engage one of my employees to discuss what they are. I think the home owners appreciate them. It makes me a little uncomfortable though. Don't know why.
> 
> ...


Everybody's points are good but in reference to your discomfort, I think you are uncomfortable with _*ANY*_ visible displays of undisciplined/addictive behaviors. You'd like to have your crew look perfect when possible.
Just take comfort that it wouldn't offend most clients.
They probably respect the effort.


:cowboy:


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Rbriggs82 said:


> I liken nicotine to caffeine minus the tasty/non harmful delivery system. :yes:
> 
> As for safety, I know it's WAY better than what I was doing so that's a plus. Will there be studies saying it's bad, prolly. Seems like every week coffee is great then harmful. Same for chocolate, caffeine, wine, beer, and everything else. From what I've read the main ingredient is what's used in for machines and deemed safe by the FDA.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


So dumb I can't edit. I meant to say the main ingredient is what's used in FOG machines. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

I don't know the details, but a friend of mine had one explode in his pocket yesterday.


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## Admin (Jan 4, 2010)

I quit smoking (after several decades) and started vaping 17 months ago. I have no plans to quit vaping but I also don't vape in places that I didn't smoke. For me, it is a matter of respecting the people around me.

I won't pretend to believe they are good for me, I simply think they are better for me than cigarettes. How do I know? Well, for starters I can breathe again. I only cough if I am sick or choking, and my blood pressure is normal for the first time in years. That works for me.

Just my 2 cents...


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

Underdog said:


> Everybody's points are good but in reference to your discomfort, I think you are uncomfortable with _*ANY*_ visible displays of undisciplined/addictive behaviors. You'd like to have your crew look perfect when possible.
> Just take comfort that it wouldn't offend most clients.
> They probably respect the effort.
> 
> ...


I think you hit it. I'm okay with it as long as my customer doesn't think it's weird or intrusive. 

BTW, thanks for responding on topic. I didn't mean to start a moral or health discussion about cigs. 

I have had guys smoke like freight trains in the past. All were respectful of their surroundings with the exception of one.


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## Masters Tile & Paint (Dec 30, 2009)

My business partner and I vape. He is actually a smoker and I got him one to get him to quit cigarettes. It has helped him a lot. As to the safety the jury is still out. 

The reason for this is the liquid is not regulated. It only has four ingredients. Pg/vg/natural flavoring, nicotine. The problem with that is anybody can mix it. The stuff I buy comes from a pharmaceutical grade lab in Richmond. However your back house vape shack where they mix it by hand could have anything in it. So I understand the concern completely. 

Only time will tell. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Darps (Mar 24, 2014)

E-cigarettes suck. Go big, or go home. I have a Chi You mod with a rebuildable dripping atomizer called a Stillare. I blow mad clouds, yo! It takes a few seconds to drip the juice onto the cotton, but it's nothing compared to taking a smoke break. I smell a lot better, and I'm not losing my temper from cutting myself off nicotine cold turkey. I don't leave butts sitting around. I'm not making the HO garbage cans smell like ashtrays. I'm not smelling up the interior of a home. I wouldn't do it inside a home while the HO was standing there, but the smell disappears in a matter of seconds.
Don't hate the vape!


Sent from my iPhone using PaintTalk.com


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## kerk (Oct 14, 2009)

Smoking is one of the dumbest habits you can pick up. I know, I did, in my youth when you think you can stop anytime you want, but as they say, it is as addictive as cocaine. And sadly we just lost a baseball legend, and gentleman, Tony Gwynn, to the results of 'chew'.

That said, I have been on E-cigs for a year come July. Tried to cold turkey before, couldn't do it....or more likely, didn't have the will. But the E-cigs seemed like a good way to step down. Best decision I have made in a while. Within the first month I could take a deep breath without effort, and I don't stink. Plus, I have net pocketed $1000.00 since I switched. I am also down to the last nicotine level before 0. 

I didn't play back and forth between cigs and e-cigs, I switched immediately as soon as my kit arrived. I actually still have one, left over, unopened pack of cigs in my truck that is now almost a year old, just as a reminder. Just the thought of smoking a real cig now makes me gag.

The goal is to drop this too, but until then, it is waaaaaay better than tobacco, money wise and health wise.

And to anyone who has quit, or never started, my hat's off to you.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Did anyone not notice the blown up thigh from the ecig!!


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Actually Bill, I also thought about taking up ecigs. But as a pretty healthy non smoking individual, I would be concerned that the unnecessary inhalation of a foriegn matter wouldn't be good for my endurance. I think I'll stick with the coffee. Especially in light of the of the injury Woodlands friend suffered. WOW!


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

CApainter said:


> Did anyone not notice the blown up thigh from the ecig!!



Yah, and this picture is of a GPS left on the dash in the sun and its lithium battery exploded


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## kerk (Oct 14, 2009)

CApainter said:


> Did anyone not notice the blown up thigh from the ecig!!


I will take 'that' claim with a grain of salt.


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## Darps (Mar 24, 2014)

Don't hate... Partici-VAPE!


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## oldpaintdoc (Apr 11, 2010)

CApainter said:


> Did anyone not notice the blown up thigh from the ecig!!


And how many millions of e-cig's haven't exploded? 
Damn the sky is falling again!


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## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

epretot said:


> I think you hit it. I'm okay with it as long as my customer doesn't think it's weird or intrusive.
> 
> BTW, thanks for responding on topic. I didn't mean to start a moral or health discussion about cigs.


I think it's an interesting thread, glad you started it.

We live in a day when we can talk about being judgmental without being judged.
My dad smoked for 5 years before I knew him. By the time I hung wallpaper for him, pity the painter that lit up.


:cowboy:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Underdog said:


> I think it's an interesting thread, glad you started it.
> 
> We live in a day when we can talk about being judgmental without being judged.
> My dad smoked for 5 years before I knew him. By the time I hung wallpaper for him, pity the painter that lit up.
> ...


You lived with an obnoxious reformed smoker too, eh?

Funny thing, he never gave the same crap to his MOTHER when she smoked in OUR house :whistling2:


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## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

daArch said:


> You lived with an obnoxious reformed smoker too, eh?
> 
> Funny thing, he never gave the same crap to his MOTHER when she smoked in OUR house :whistling2:


 Grammar too, I'm still afraid to misspell words.

My wife knew how to handle him. At a dinner one time my wife said she was full. My dad corrected her and said she was "satisfied".
My wife said, "No, I was satisfied five minutes ago, now I'm full."


:cowboy:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Sounds like we had the same father.

When I corrected the WW the other day on something she said, her comment was, "You sound like Fred"

Was yours was born in the teens and served in the Navy?

Or perhaps yours, Gough's, and mine were all the same person, brother.


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## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

daArch said:


> Sounds like we had the same father.
> 
> When I corrected the WW the other day on something she said, her comment was, "You sound like Fred"
> 
> ...


 Clever wife, when my wife doesn't want me to repeat a behavior she compares me to one of my brothers.

Could be a generational thing. My dad was born in 1921 but couldn't serve because of a childhood bone disease. His older brother was in the Navy and had a similar personality. Maybe y'all are my cousins.


:cowboy:


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

I quit smoking and drinking back in April of this year and switched to ecigs. I have several different mods along with ego batteries. It is unknown on the long term dangers of e-liquid use so far and the FDA is stepping in getting those sucked into it worried. With that said I feel much healthier, dropped 40 pounds, smell better and am very glad I did. I would much rather have an employee using e-cigs rather than the smokes.


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## ColorQuest (Mar 19, 2012)

Workaholic said:


> I quit smoking and drinking back in April of this year and switched to ecigs. I have several different mods along with ego batteries. It is unknown on the long term dangers of e-liquid use so far and the FDA is stepping in getting those sucked into it worried. With that said I feel much healthier, dropped 40 pounds, smell better and am very glad I did. I would much rather have an employee using e-cigs rather than the smokes.


Good call buddy, I also switched to e cigs about 16 months ago and I wish I would have switched sooner. It is night and day from the old analogs I use to suck down all day long. I have been mixing up my own juices myself for a few months as well. Considering how many chemicals are in the stinkies and the fact that I use just a few food grade ingredients to make my juices is proof enough for me that my new cigs are virtually harmless in comparison. 
Jay


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## Exactoman (Mar 28, 2013)

Workaholic said:


> I quit smoking and drinking back in April of this year and switched to ecigs. I have several different mods along with ego batteries. It is unknown on the long term dangers of e-liquid use so far and the FDA is stepping in getting those sucked into it worried. With that said I feel much healthier, dropped 40 pounds, smell better and am very glad I did. I would much rather have an employee using e-cigs rather than the smokes.



Looks to me like the health results (problems) are in, and there are none. From you and everybody else I've heard from on here, they feel better, can breath better, saved money, are happier, and because of that I'm sure feel better of themselves(yourselves?), and in turn everyone around you is happier and I'm sure you're probably doing better work?

How could any health notice trump that guys? Keep up this positive attitude guys!!


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## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

Yea I trust the FDA and the government to tell me the truth  I've banned everything no smoking no shorts no long hair no swearing no eating :whistling2:. No one smokes in the customers house but it's still legal for now. Imagine politicians without all that tax money on tobacco, aw hell they would just up every other tax. 

Oh I forgot no radios, no sneakers, no baseball hats backwards, and last but least no talking. My crew is so happy  :thumbsup:

What was that song Richie Havens sang at Woodstock and all our troops fight for....Freedom! Freedom!


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

thinkpainting/nick said:


> Yea I trust the FDA and the government to tell me the truth  I've banned everything no smoking no shorts no long hair no swearing no eating :whistling2:. No one smokes in the customers house but it's still legal for now. Imagine politicians without all that tax money on tobacco, aw hell they would just up every other tax.
> 
> Oh I forgot no radios, no sneakers, no baseball hats backwards, and last but least no talking. My crew is so happy  :thumbsup:
> 
> What was that song Richie Havens sang at Woodstock and all our troops fight for....Freedom! Freedom!


And don't forget to ban money from your workers. Protect them from all the evil things that stuff entices. :thumbsup:


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

daArch said:


> And don't forget to ban money from your workers. Protect them from all the evil things that stuff entices. :thumbsup:


Bill is right, money is the root of all evil. I pay my guys with Wachtower pamphlets. :blink:


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## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Bill is right, money is the root of all evil. I pay my guys with Wachtower pamphlets. :blink:


Lol good one never thought of that:thumbsup:


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## Toolnut (Nov 23, 2012)

OK anyone who lives in a legal pot state= A guy works for you and has a script for pot and a Dr. that says he needs it every so often. Now this every so often falls during work hours. You can't fire him, you would be in court by the end of the day, you don't want him on the worksite high. How do you handle it ?


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

That's a no go for safety reasons. Just like how you can't operate heavy machinery while on pain pills. I don't think climbing ladders while stoned is smart either. 

I'd fire him. It's my business/arse on the line I do what I want (that's how it should be anyways).


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## Ric (Oct 26, 2011)

Rbriggs82 said:


> I liken nicotine to caffeine minus the tasty/non harmful delivery system. :yes:
> 
> As for safety, I know it's WAY better than what I was doing so that's a plus. Will there be studies saying it's bad, prolly. Seems like every week coffee is great then harmful. Same for chocolate, caffeine, wine, beer, and everything else. From what I've read the main ingredient is what's used in for machines and deemed safe by the FDA.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


It's like George Carlin used to say..."Saliva causes cancer, but only if taken in small doses over long periods of time..."


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## capn26 (Aug 17, 2014)

Yeah...... Legal pot is all well and good, but I'm sure it says use care while driving/operating heavy equipment on the side of the bag just like Vicodin.(not really sure, but I think it'd be funny). But seriously, that's a serious risk to everyone else not to mention himself. He/she'd have to ride.


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## Admin (Jan 4, 2010)

ColorQuest said:


> Good call buddy, I also switched to e cigs about 16 months ago and I wish I would have switched sooner. It is night and day from the old analogs I use to suck down all day long. I have been mixing up my own juices myself for a few months as well. Considering how many chemicals are in the stinkies and the fact that I use just a few food grade ingredients to make my juices is proof enough for me that my new cigs are virtually harmless in comparison.
> Jay


In January it will be 2 years for me. Best decision I ever made.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Cricket said:


> In January it will be 2 years for me. Best decision I ever made.


February will be 2 years for me. :yes: I just got an iclear 30 tank. Best tank I've had so far. It sucks down a lot of juice but it's worth it. 

What kind of juice do y'all use? I go a bottle of Space Jam Astro good stuff but it was pretty pricey. The Astro tastes like apples on the inhale and peach when exhaling, yum.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

ColorQuest said:


> Good call buddy, I also switched to e cigs about 16 months ago and I wish I would have switched sooner. It is night and day from the old analogs I use to suck down all day long. I have been mixing up my own juices myself for a few months as well. Considering how many chemicals are in the stinkies and the fact that I use just a few food grade ingredients to make my juices is proof enough for me that my new cigs are virtually harmless in comparison.
> Jay


Congrats Jay that is awesome. DIY is the best way to go for the cost value. I have been thinking about it but just have not pulled the trigger yet. 



Cricket said:


> In January it will be 2 years for me. Best decision I ever made.


Congrats on that achievement Cricket. 



Rbriggs82 said:


> February will be 2 years for me. :yes: I just got an iclear 30 tank. Best tank I've had so far. It sucks down a lot of juice but it's worth it.
> 
> What kind of juice do y'all use? I go a bottle of Space Jam Astro good stuff but it was pretty pricey. The Astro tastes like apples on the inhale and peach when exhaling, yum.


I use a variety of e-liquids there are a some that are must have in rotation such as Beantown's Oh' Face, G2's Mr. Cookie, Suicide Bunnies OB the list can go on and on. All those are on the premium price scale though. There is a company in TX called Rebel Juice that I order from as well 240ml for 45.00 they usually have a sale going that whacks 20% off. Like ColorQuest mentioned there is always diy which makes the cost aprox a dollar or so for 30ml.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Workaholic said:


> Congrats Jay that is awesome. DIY is the best way to go for the cost value. I have been thinking about it but just have not pulled the trigger yet.
> 
> 
> Congrats on that achievement Cricket.
> ...


Yea the Space Jam is not cheap $15 for a 15ml bottle . Normally I buy the Charleston ecig brand favor called Charleston Summer.
http://www.ecigcharleston.com/product-p/charleston-summer.htm

If I were to ever get into mods then I'd go the diy route for juice. Those mods drink juice like nobody's business.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Those mods drink juice like nobody's business.


Forum stress. Fiber keeps 'em regular.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Yea the Space Jam is not cheap $15 for a 15ml bottle . Normally I buy the Charleston ecig brand favor called Charleston Summer.
> http://www.ecigcharleston.com/product-p/charleston-summer.htm
> 
> If I were to ever get into mods then I'd go the diy route for juice. Those mods drink juice like nobody's business.


I have gone down the rabbit hole. Here is my daily driver at the house that no longer resembles a cigarette at all, but is pretty good. I have a dust proof water resistant mod that I use for work with a tank. 

You should check out that http://texasrebeljuice.com/products/kangaroo-punch brand they have good e-liquid and good prices. If you do I think the 20% off code is 20off Mention me I think I get 10 bucks off or something lol. 

I was going to offer you a free iclear 30s tank as I don't use them but it seems I put some Milk & Honey liquid in it to check it out awhile back and it is not new like I was thinking. If you want it let me know if not now worries. 



Wildbill7145 said:


> Forum stress. Fiber keeps 'em regular.


That was a good one. :thumbsup:


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Workaholic said:


> I have gone down the rabbit hole. Here is my daily driver at the house that no longer resembles a cigarette at all, but is pretty good. I have a dust proof water resistant mod that I use for work with a tank.
> 
> You should check out that http://texasrebeljuice.com/products/kangaroo-punch brand they have good e-liquid and good prices. If you do I think the 20% off code is 20off Mention me I think I get 10 bucks off or something lol.
> 
> ...


Hey Sean I went to order but stopped because I wasn't sure which vg/pg ratio to choose. Which ratio would you recommend for the kangaroo punch in and iclear 30?


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Hey Sean I went to order but stopped because I wasn't sure which vg/pg ratio to choose. Which ratio would you recommend for the kangaroo punch in and iclear 30?


Sorry it took me so long to reply to this my apologies I wandered off the reservation again and missed your question. You more than likely probably either worked it out or purchased elsewhere, but imo for a iclear 30 i would say somewhere in the 50/50 40/60 30/70 pg/vg range. pg is typically going to be your flavor carrier while the vg is going to produce denser vapor. For tanks I like a 30/70 - 20/80 ratio but higher pg blends makes my throat scratchy. 

Shoot me a pm I found a brand new sealed atomizer around here recently for that tank you use. I will toss it in an envelope for you if you want it. 

Here is one of my latest additions. It is to big to pack around but at home the thing is awesome. Then the purple one is a bottom fed REO I recently picked up.


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## Admin (Jan 4, 2010)

This is my latest toy. I am loving it.

Kangertech Subtank and Aspire CF SUBΩ Battery









I learned quickly that you need to cut the nicotine WAY DOWN for sub-ohm vaping.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Cricket said:


> This is my latest toy. I am loving it.
> 
> Kangertech Subtank and Aspire CF SUBΩ Battery
> 
> ...


Looking Smexy Cricket lol. I have a Sub Tank on that MHM pic. That Aspire CF should pair great with the Sub Tank.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

So it's great that you guys no longer have to inhale all of those carcinogens from cigarettes. But, aren't you still introducing nicotine into your blood stream?


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## Admin (Jan 4, 2010)

I still use nicotine. But the sub ohm brings me down from 18 to 6 and either way I feel 100 times better than when I was smoking. That being said, I was a heavy smoker for many years. 

P.S. If I didn't vape, I would go back to smoking so for me, it is a lifesaver.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

CApainter said:


> So it's great that you guys no longer have to inhale all of those carcinogens from cigarettes. But, aren't you still introducing nicotine into your blood stream?


Yes nicotine is still being introduced. The amount of nicotine even at high mg levels are lower than traditional cigarettes. The nicotine can also be controlled as the e-liquid is offered in various levels. Normally from 0-24mg.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Cricket said:


> I still use nicotine. But the sub ohm brings me down from 18 to 6 and either way I feel 100 times better than when I was smoking. That being said, I was a heavy smoker for many years.
> 
> P.S. If I didn't vape, I would go back to smoking so for me, it is a lifesaver.


And I totally respect that because I know how harmful nicotine addiction can be. Particularly, when administered by the traditional means through cigarettes. However, doesn't there seem to be a deceptive quality to the advertisement of vaping that may in fact promote its use by youths who see it as a benign alternative to smoking?


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## Admin (Jan 4, 2010)

CApainter said:


> And I totally respect that because I know how harmful nicotine addiction can be. Particularly, when administered by the traditional means through cigarettes. However, doesn't there seem to be a deceptive quality to the advertisement of vaping that may in fact promote its use by youths who see it as a benign alternative to smoking?


Many states are regulating things that involve kids. In the vape shops that I visit they will card you in a heartbeat the minute you walk in the store if you appear less than 30 years old. (You have to be 18)

It is very rare (if ever) that I have met someone who started vaping who wasn't already a smoker. 

I don't see vaping as cool. I vape in a respectful manner and don't do it around others unless I am in my own home. My vaping keeps the world around me safe cuz I would be beyond cranky without it.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Cricket said:


> I still use nicotine. But the sub ohm brings me down from 18 to 6 and either way I feel 100 times better than when I was smoking. That being said, I was a heavy smoker for many years.
> 
> P.S. If I didn't vape, I would go back to smoking so for me, it is a lifesaver.


I typically use 12mg in standard tanks and with the Sub tanks like the Atlantis and Kanger along with rda's I use 6. Might be due for a slight drop in the tanks though. I wish 9mg was a common ratio. 



CApainter said:


> And I totally respect that because I know how harmful nicotine addiction can be. Particularly, when administered by the traditional means through cigarettes. However, doesn't there seem to be a deceptive quality to the advertisement of vaping that may in fact promote its use by youths who see it as a benign alternative to smoking?


I don't know about deceptive, but there is some controversy about the labeling and branding of certain e-liquids that are brought up as targeting children. Ny recently tried tto ban e-liquid in the Burroughs saying that it was a danger to children. The same thing was said about Joe the Camel and there may even be some truth to it but banning a big revenue maker like tobacco is off the table. The reality is that children find ways to obtain illegal or forbidden substances and as a parent it is your responsibility to deal with these issues rather than expecting the state to have the responsibilities. 

Right now it is sort of like the wild west and a great many states are trying to set up laws to over tax the hell out of it and by finding ways to call it a sin tax and to recoup some lost revenue from their cut on tobacco products. Your city for example has a rather offensive anti smoking ordinance that includes e-cigarettes the "Curb it Campaign" I do not vape where I am not suppose to smoke, but truthfully they are two different entities. I think that coining the name e-cigarette was a mistaken. NJ has some crazy e-cigarette laws and right now many states like Indiana and Washington are proposing ridiculous taxes that have yet to manifest into much but as it becomes a bigger $ industry the states and feds are looking for ways to protect us by making sure they get a good piece of the pie. 

My nicotine consumption tastes nothing like a cigarette I like sweet flavors and some coffee flavors, but as I said I am respectful and do not have the mentality that since it is not a tobacco product I am free to vape where ever I feel like it. Not everybody does hold that mentality but as Cricket mentioned above there is no denying the healthier attributes when comparing the use to tobacco products. There is not long term data to study the actual effects at this time though.


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## Admin (Jan 4, 2010)

I used tobacco flavors for the first few weeks (a little over 2 years ago now) but quickly changed to other flavors, right about the same time I realized that I couldn't stand the smell of cigarette smoke. (Yes, I know my vape didn't smell like cigarettes but somehow I associated the smell of people smoking with it.) 

I tend to be drawn to coffee or butter rum type flavors. There is a slight smell to the flavors I vape but it disappears quickly.


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## Admin (Jan 4, 2010)

Workaholic, are you picky about the juice you vape?

I am insanely picky. Stuff like this matters to me.



> NICOTINE
> Our nicotine comes from an FDA approved lab called Alchem International. We are proud to be using NicSelect and it is tested to be 99.2 – 99.6% pure nicotine.
> 
> FLAVOR
> Because the nicotine is extremely pure there are no residual tobacco flavors. In order to have an e-liquid with great taste, flavors must be added. We use food grade flavorings that can be combined to produce an infinite number great flavor combinations.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Cricket said:


> I used tobacco flavors for the first few weeks (a little over 2 years ago now) but quickly changed to other flavors, right about the same time I realized that I couldn't stand the smell of cigarette smoke. (Yes, I know my vape didn't smell like cigarettes but somehow I associated the smell of people smoking with it.)
> 
> I tend to be drawn to coffee or butter rum type flavors. There is a slight smell to the flavors I vape but it disappears quickly.


When I first started I went to the menthol flavors and now almost never use a menthol liquid. Also when I started for some reason it was important to feel like a cigarette in shape and size. Now that seems silly to me as almost all my gear is box mods with the exception of a couple tube mechs that I never use but they look cool lol. 

Ex smokers are the worst non smokers for sure lol. Cigarette smoke reeks and as a smoker you notice it little but as a non smoker you can smell it from a few hundred feet. 

Cool that your a vaper Cricket, and thanks for flashing me your gear as I enjoy checking out ppl's gear, but regardless of what type of gear one has if it helps them cut down or quit smoking altogether it is a win.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Cricket said:


> Workaholic, are you picky about the juice you vape?
> 
> I am insanely picky. Stuff like this matters to me.


Yeah I am picky. I try to keep an open mind though and will try a great many different juice brands. The problem with all the start up brands is that one can never be sure of the conditions in which it is made.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I guess the bottom line is, if you choose to be addicted to a substance that has been compared to heroin, in its difficulty to kick, it is better to vape then smoke because it doesn't impact others the way cigarettes have. But I would hope that the enthusiasm for exotic nicotine juices, with pleasant scents, doesn't encourage those who've never taken up nicotine, to begin now.


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## Admin (Jan 4, 2010)

CApainter said:


> I guess the bottom line is, if you choose to be addicted to a substance that has been compared to heroin, in its difficulty to kick, it is better to vape then smoke because it doesn't impact others the way cigarettes have. But I would hope that the enthusiasm for exotic nicotine juices, with pleasant scents, doesn't encourage those who've never taken up nicotine, to begin now.


Well it goes beyond the impact to others since I can breathe again, don't cough, and my blood pressure came way down....


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Cricket said:


> Well it goes beyond the impact to others since I can breathe again, don't cough, and my blood pressure came way down....


I apologize if my comments on the subject seem a little "anti smokerish". I grew up with smokers and smoked myself for a while. I actually liked to smoke, but fortunately didn't become addicted to the nicotine, so it was easier for me to stop. 

But it's like we all know smoking is not healthy, and we've seen how hard it is for people to stop. And those who were able to quit smoking, we're also able to kick the nicotine. The e cigs may be a great alternative to cigarette smoking, but it doesn't seem to address the nicotine addiction other than to offer a little less of it. Couple that with how trendy vaping has become, I'm not certain ecigs are really addressing the problem.

None of this would be of any interest to me if it wasn't for a friend of mine whose eighteen year old son has taken up vaping having never smoked. So now he's more than happy to introduce nicotine into his blood stream with the notion that it's a benign social activity that doesn't carry the same negative conotations as nasty cigarettes. 

For those who smoke, I think it's great. But I don't think we've made any progress in behavior other than to be more conscientious of others who dislike smokers and their smelly habit.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Maybe if Atorvastatins were administered by some trendy gadget, I wouldn't feel so left out.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

CApainter said:


> Maybe if Atorvastatins were administered by some trendy gadget, I wouldn't feel so left out.


Now you are thinking. Be the inventor and the trail blazer of your new delivery system. Of course be prepared to be ridiculed and squashed by both the pharmaceutical companies and the FDA.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Workaholic said:


> Now you are thinking. Be the inventor and the trail blazer of your new delivery system. Of course be prepared to be ridiculed and squashed by both the pharmaceutical companies and the FDA.


I don't think all the engineering in the world could make a pill dispenser any where near as sexy as a chrome plated vaporator.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

CApainter said:


> I don't think all the engineering in the world could make a pill dispenser any where near as sexy as a chrome plated vaporator.


They maybe could. 

The green one in the last pic I posted is milled from a solid block of 6061-T6 aluminum. I get your point though. :thumbsup:


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## jason123 (Jul 2, 2009)

I was so grateful a few years ago I used a vape to quit smoking and have never went back Im finally a quitter.

My production on site went up ten fold those god damn smoke breaks are killers to the work production.

I sincerely wanted to quit which is the main ingredient to success but the vape was a terrific tool to get the edge I needed. 

I had a small vape some of these vape they look like lethal weapons.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Take it from an old geezer who smoked for 30+ years and finally put 'em down 8 years ago. When you quit sucking fire smoke down your breathing apparatus, you will start to feel better, smell better, look better and like yourself better. And you won't need some health professional to confirm it for you. 

Now having said that, I dare anyone to try and get between me and my nicotine gum.:2guns:


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

slinger58 said:


> Take it from an old geezer who *smoked for 30+ years and finally put 'em down 8 years ago*. When you quit sucking fire smoke down your breathing apparatus, you will start to feel better, smell better, look better and like yourself better. And you won't need some health professional to confirm it for you.
> 
> Now having said that, *I dare anyone to try and get between me and my nicotine gum*.:2guns:


Slinger, don't tell us you have been on *nicotine gum *for 8 years? WOW!

Let me guess, you put the smokes down 8 years ago, *as a full time smoke*, and you still sneak a few in here and there? That would explain the 8 year gum habit. Sir, you need to never sneak a smoke again (if you are), get them fully out of your system, and wean off the gum. That stuff will give you throat cancer.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Most here now that although I feel I will always be addicted to nicotine, I only binge smoke once every couple of months. I'll smoke most of a pack at a party and then finish it off within a couple of days, and then quit for one, two, or five months. I relate this just to explain that I both loathe and love tobacco. Classic love/hate. When I'm on the wagon, I look down on all smokers. When I've fallen off, they are my best friends :thumbsup: 

Anyway, I was at a party last summer, and a few of the 20-somethings were vaping. One guy said that there has been studies that have not found any harmful substances in pure unadulterated nicotine . Yup, when you inhale the hot burning smoke, you get the tars and other crap. And we all know, cigarettes have all sorts of other chemicals mixed in.

I'm not saying what he said has any validity, but I liked the logic.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

jason123 said:


> I was so grateful a few years ago I used a vape to quit smoking and have never went back Im finally a quitter.
> 
> My production on site went up ten fold those god damn smoke breaks are killers to the work production.
> 
> ...


Congrats on ditching the smokes! I quit cold turkey in 2005 and then like a dumbass one drunken night in 2010 I bummed a smoke from a buddy, which turned into a stop at a store for a pack of my own, and well you get the gist lol. So congrats I know what a pita it can be. 

lol yeah they don't have to be like weapons much like with a lot of stuff I tend to go down the rabbit hole of excessiveness. Character flaw I reckon. 



slinger58 said:


> Take it from an old geezer who smoked for 30+ years and finally put 'em down 8 years ago. When you quit sucking fire smoke down your breathing apparatus, you will start to feel better, smell better, look better and like yourself better. And you won't need some health professional to confirm it for you.
> 
> Now having said that, I dare anyone to try and get between me and my nicotine gum.:2guns:


8yrs on gum? What mg strength do those come in? 



daArch said:


> Most here now that although I feel I will always be addicted to nicotine, I only binge smoke once every couple of months. I'll smoke most of a pack at a party and then finish it off within a couple of days, and then quit for one, two, or five months. I relate this just to explain that I both loathe and love tobacco. Classic love/hate. When I'm on the wagon, I look down on all smokers. When I've fallen off, they are my best friends :thumbsup:
> 
> Anyway, I was at a party last summer, and a few of the 20-somethings were vaping. One guy said that there has been studies that have not found any harmful substances in pure unadulterated nicotine . Yup, when you inhale the hot burning smoke, you get the tars and other crap. And we all know, cigarettes have all sorts of other chemicals mixed in.
> 
> I'm not saying what he said has any validity, but I liked the logic.


Well truth be told Bill, that for myself and most everybody who takes up the vaping habit there is noted improvements in health, and yes there is a lack of that heavy tar. I believe there is still a film though. I do not believe it is as as safe as simply breathing but I believe it is much safer than cigarettes. And without long term testing how much safer it is is yet to be determined, but it does lack almost all of the 4000 ingredients offered by Phillip Morris's cocktail of addiction.

As far as nicotine goes nicotine can be found in many plants and roots including the potato. It is the regular inhalation of food grade flavorings that are the real question. 

Anyways for now I am content with my nicotine addiction and the delivery method I am choosing to use.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Workaholic said:


> 8yrs on gum? What mg strength do those come in? .



2 mg and 4 mg. I use the Wal-Mart brand, 2 mg.

Yeah, I accept the fact that I'm still addicted to nicotine, but the Doc says there's no known evidence of really bad side effects from long term use and the Dentist says the same thing. So as others have stated, it's just a different delivery system of nicotine that doesn't have the bad elements of smoking. While I would love to kick the nicotine gum habit, I don't really stress about it because I know how much better I feel without the smoke.

One question for those who use the vapers, was increased appetite/weight gain an issue? I know after I quit smoking, I "bloomed" up to 195-200 lbs. which was about a 30lb. gain for me. (But some of that may have been "middle-age spread".:yes


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

slinger58 said:


> 2 mg and 4 mg. I use the Wal-Mart brand, 2 mg.
> 
> Yeah, I accept the fact that I'm still addicted to nicotine, but the Doc says there's no known evidence of really bad side effects from long term use and the Dentist says the same thing. So as others have stated, it's just a different delivery system of nicotine that doesn't have the bad elements of smoking. While I would love to kick the nicotine gum habit, I don't really stress about it because I know how much better I feel without the smoke.
> 
> One question for those who use the vapers, was increased appetite/weight gain an issue? I know after I quit smoking, I "bloomed" up to 195-200 lbs. which was about a 30lb. gain for me. (But some of that may have been "middle-age spread".:yes


it WASN'T the cutting down on cigs that did it, it was too much business and not enough golf :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

daArch said:


> it WASN'T the cutting down on cigs that did it, it was too much business and not enough golf :thumbup: :thumbup:


Lol. I'd like to think that, Bill. I haven't teed it up since November, so that's the longest layoff I've had in about 10 years. How about you? Has enough of that snow melted so that you can even _see_ a golf course?


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

slinger58 said:


> *2 mg and 4 mg. I use the Wal-Mart brand, 2 mg.*


Even the Wal-mart brand is expensive. Buy the 4mg and only chew half at a time, you will save $$ that way.

Really, you need to wean off of them slow, you will never notice any withdraw (I have beat this habit, both cig and gum). But like I said, if you cheat with a smoke every now and again (been there done that 100 times), I always viewed that, as starting my quit smoking all over again. Even if you only have one smoke every 2 months, you will always have that "cigarette monkey" on your back.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

slinger58 said:


> One question for those who use the vapers, was increased appetite/weight gain an issue? I know after I quit smoking, I "bloomed" up to 195-200 lbs. which was about a 30lb. gain for me. (But some of that may have been "middle-age spread".:yes


A lot of ppl report not gaining a lot of weight because of some of the flavor profiles out there, a lot of ppl vape their sweets myself included. 

The downside to vaping is finding good flavors and brands you like because it is a flooded market and everybody and their uncle is trying to cash in. So it requires some experimenting.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Workaholic said:


> A lot of ppl report not gaining a lot of weight because of some of the flavor profiles out there, a lot of ppl vape their sweets myself included.
> 
> The downside to vaping is finding good flavors and brands you like because it is a flooded market and everybody and their uncle is trying to cash in. So it requires some experimenting.


Speaking of uncles, I understand Uncle Sam would like to get involved in the vaping business. Some claim the need for regulations to look out for the health and well being of all the new "vapers". Myself, I think they may be more interested in all the cash involved.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

slinger58 said:


> Lol. I'd like to think that, Bill. I haven't teed it up since November, so that's the longest layoff I've had in about 10 years. How about you? Has enough of that snow melted so that you can even _see_ a golf course?


Nope

BUT my fiver full of balls has just surfaced out by my practice range. I got tempted to tee up on the "white crusty glaze on the meadow".

(Wasn't that a song from Oklahoma :whistling2


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

daArch said:


> Nope
> 
> BUT my fiver full of balls has just surfaced out by my practice range. I got tempted to tee up on the "white crusty glaze on the meadow".
> 
> (Wasn't that a song from Oklahoma :whistling2


Don't know. Haven't spent much time in Oklahoma. :jester:

I think the first orange golf balls were originally used to play on snow covered fairways. I spent several summers in Traverse City, Michigan back in the 70's and the owner of one of the courses there told me that.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

slinger58 said:


> Speaking of uncles, I understand Uncle Sam would like to get involved in the vaping business. Some claim the need for regulations to look out for the health and well being of all the new "vapers". Myself, I think they may be more interested in all the cash involved.


Hell yeah they want to label it a with sin tax. The government makes more off the tobacco products than the tobacco companies do. People quitting tobacco is a loss of revenue and is not good for the checks and balances. The modern day government rarely cares about the safety of the citizens if there is no money in it lol.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

slinger58 said:


> 2 mg and 4 mg. I use the Wal-Mart brand, 2 mg.
> 
> Yeah, I accept the fact that I'm still addicted to nicotine, but the Doc says there's no known evidence of really bad side effects from long term use and the Dentist says the same thing. So as others have stated, it's just a different delivery system of nicotine that doesn't have the bad elements of smoking. While I would love to kick the nicotine gum habit, I don't really stress about it because I know how much better I feel without the smoke.
> 
> One question for those who use the vapers, was increased appetite/weight gain an issue? I know after I quit smoking, I "bloomed" up to 195-200 lbs. which was about a 30lb. gain for me. (But some of that may have been "middle-age spread".:yes


When I've "quit" smoking in the past for 6 months to a year at a time weight gain was always an issue. When I switched to vaping 2yrs ago I actually lost 10lbs. Could have just been coincidence or something idk but I'll take it. :yes:


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Rbriggs82 said:


> When I've "quit" smoking in the past for 6 months to a year at a time weight gain was always an issue. When I switched to vaping 2yrs ago I actually lost 10lbs. Could have just been coincidence or something idk but I'll take it. :yes:


Do you think it may have been the nicotine from vaping that controlled your appetite?


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

I went from straight smoking to vaping and lost 10lbs. I think vaping sweet flavors may have curbed my desire for sweet foods which resulted in a weight loss.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Rbriggs82 said:


> I went from straight smoking to vaping and lost 10lbs. I think vaping sweet flavors may have curbed my desire for sweet foods which resulted in a weight loss.


That's interesting. So can you just vape the sweet flavors, without the nicotine?


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

CApainter said:


> That's interesting. So can you just vape the sweet flavors, without the nicotine?


You can but typically the lower the nicotine the less flavor you have.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

ColorQuest said:


> Good call buddy, I also switched to e cigs about 16 months ago and I wish I would have switched sooner. It is night and day from the old analogs I use to suck down all day long. I have been mixing up my own juices myself for a few months as well. Considering how many chemicals are in the stinkies and the fact that I use just a few food grade ingredients to make my juices is proof enough for me that my new cigs are virtually harmless in comparison.
> Jay


I just wanted to take a minute to reply to this and some of the other similar statements in this thread.

"Food grade ingredients" _does not mean safe to inhale the vapors of._ Ingesting and inhaling substances are VASTLY different for your body. Some stuff that we eat is toxic to inhale; some stuff that we inhale would be toxic to eat. The delivery system into our body is completely different. You can't make _*any*_ assumptions about "food grade" stuff being okay to smoke.

I don't want to discourage anyone from stopping cigarettes or look down on anyone for vaping; that's not my intent here. But you should know, if you're vaping, you could be killing yourself in a dozen different ways. Might be fine. Might not be.

Unfortunately, since vaping is virtually un-regulated, people can put *anything* in their liquids. Some could be perfectly safe, while others could have severe and instant impact upon your body. Everyone should be aware of these facts. Good luck guys.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Rbriggs82 said:


> You can but typically the lower the nicotine the less flavor you have.


Are there nicotine free vaping juices?


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

CApainter said:


> Are there nicotine free vaping juices?


:yes:


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Rbriggs82 said:


> :yes:


Well, that would crush all of my concerns for taking up vaping. Especially if the flavors help curb appetites of fattening foods, like donuts, or french fries. 

I'm actually less concerned about the vapors as I am of becoming addicted to nicotine. I would also think the market for vaping could open up beyond those using it as an alternative to smoking. Particularly, if they don't introduce nicotine to non smokers.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Woodford said:


> I just wanted to take a minute to reply to this and some of the other similar statements in this thread.
> 
> "Food grade ingredients" _does not mean safe to inhale the vapors of._ Ingesting and inhaling substances are VASTLY different for your body. Some stuff that we eat is toxic to inhale; some stuff that we inhale would be toxic to eat. The delivery system into our body is completely different. You can't make _*any*_ assumptions about "food grade" stuff being okay to smoke.
> 
> ...


All valid points and some points I have tried to make myself in this thread. I am against unfair an excessive regulation though but not against fair taxation and unbiased long term study especially ones that are not funded by big tobacco. I suppose that can be a fine line. To add to the ingredient/flavoring topic there is a lively topic concerning diacetyl which when discovered in a large name brand of e-liquid created a lot of controversy. Diacetyl is related most notably to a group of workers that developed what is now known as popcorn lung from the butter flavoring that hung in the air in their work environment at a popcorn plant. While no vaper has ever developed popcorn lung in the last 10yrs or so that it has been somewhat mainstream it is a concern and disclosure of ingredients should be done. For that to take place at this point in time it is at manufacturers discretion. The positive note is that diacetyl is a frowned upon ingredient and word does travel fast through the vaping community and whether one is concerned about diacetyl or not it is worth studying. 

Right now it is kind of like the wild west and a very saturated market. I have done a fair amount of research in this topic and consider myself to be pretty up with the current topics that concern the majority of vapers and I am all about not only research, education and study's but also safety. 
Especially when it comes to understanding ohm's law and battery safety which is something I advice basic understanding of for entry level vapers and most especially for advanced users. 

Luckily much like this paint community there are large vaping communities that dwarf this one with a lot of great information. If you seen some of legislation proposed recently by big tobacco concerning vaping it is ridiculous, it is all geared for sealed "tamper proof" delivery systems such as RJ Reynolds Vuse and Phillip Morris's Blue. What a joke it is, and the ridiculous 40% tax increase propositions are a joke within themselves. If you are a vaper imo you should also be active in understanding the specific regulations that are being made "for your safety" and you should be vocal with that powers that be that run your state legislation because make no mistake it is not about your safety but rather a monetary manipulation.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

CApainter said:


> Are there nicotine free vaping juices?


As Ryan said yes there are 0mg juices. Many ppl vaping wind down on the nicotine and once they get down to a zero level they give vaping up, and some have a hard time getting past three because the less nicotine the less throat hit. I personally do not recommend a non smoker to take up vaping but some do and some do like your discussing of using 0mg liquids. 

Since you seem kind of interested in understanding some of this stuff here is a basic breakdown.

There are 4 main parts to e-liquid 
1.PG which is a flavor carrier, pg is thinner so flavorings tend to mix easier the higher the pg level, but some people are prone to pg allergies. 

2. VG which is thicker and with the right gear and 90+ ratio it can turn you into a human fog machine. I prefer a 20/80 pg/vg ratio. 

3. Nicotine which feeds the addiction and gives what is known as a throat hit, throat hit is important to many vapers because it is what gives one the feeling of knowing there is substance to what you are vaping. Take away the throat hit and it can feel like air.

4. Flavoring, you can eliminate flavoring altogether and use what is called nude nicotine in a variation of either pg or vg and those that use it for a long time swear it is sweet within its own rite. Which I believe because vg is sort of sweet by itself. 

pg/vg ratios vary depending upon preference and manufacturer. 



CApainter said:


> I would also think the market for vaping could open up beyond those using it as an alternative to smoking. Particularly, if they don't introduce nicotine to non smokers.


This is a topic that has been discussed by some because as was mentioned vaping sweets is known to curb some eating desires. Some diabetics also swear they are able to satisfy certain treats that they normally are not allowed to have. If one has allergies to certain things though they will have to be careful with certain flavorings. My wife for example has a cinnamon allergy and vaping cinnamon flavor e-liquid will mess her up. 

lol wow I sort of went off in this thread tonight but it is a topic I am sucked into. Maybe I will throw a random pic of another device just for the hell of it lol. Here is a dna 30 device which is a 30w device I enjoy for on the go due to its size.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Thanks for the great information Work!

It looks like its probably easier to avoid the fattening foods rather than invest in a pocket lab. But I can see how the details associated with vaping can attract the formation of its own culture. And socialization is a good thing. I'm kind of sorry I'll never participate. Vaporians seem like interesting people.


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