# How to bid exterior painting jobs ?



## TomHuggins (Mar 2, 2008)

I have seen alot of post about estimating interior painting.

How about exterior painting? Presure Washing, Scrapping, Especially if it is more than 1 story, is it better to use scaffolding verse ladder?


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## timhag (Sep 30, 2007)

Only you have the answers to your question. Every exterior job is different. Try reading thru the post on this site, may come up with some ideas.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Look Here:

http://www.painttalk.com/showthread.php?t=1446&highlight=exterior+es

http://www.painttalk.com/showthread.php?t=553&highlight=exterior+estimatetimate


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## HomeGuardPaints (Jan 17, 2008)

flat price on every house of $450 should cover it


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

What it will cost and how much you will make at an exterior, really is up to you. Things to consider when doing an exterior:

How much prep (scraping, sanding, and priming) is involved?

To what extent is Pressure washing needed? do you pressure wash the whole house, part of it or none of it? Is this before or after the prep? This depends on the quality you want to provide.

What warranty do they want in a product (quality of paint)? (varies in price)

What sheen do they want? (varies in price)

Ladders or scaffolding? That also depends on how you want to go about it... and how long will it take you using one or the other. each job is different. I don't bid jobs that need scaffolding any more. In the past, I would call a scaffolding company to give me a bid and include that cost in my proposal. I have never done an interior that justified the use of scaffolding either. Not that I wouldn't ever... It just hasn't happened yet. 

1 lvl vs. 2 stories? I don't have this nailed down quite yet. To me, it comes down to time and materials. 

What is involved in supplies? This again depends on how you want to attack the project. If you hand paint it, you won't need so much supplies compared to spraying.

Hand painting vs, praying. I did an exterior that took me 7 days to hand paint. It would have taken me 3 days to spray. The folks were dead-set on hand painting and payed the extra to get it done. Hand painting in my experience requires less paint. You can save on the cost of product that way. There is a local painter who only does hand painting in our area. Again, what do you want to do and how do you want to go about it? This will determine how your going to bid your job.

Labor (extra help outside of my capability to complete a job in a timely manner).... I don't use labor so I cannot vouch for this part of my bidding. It's just my partner and I.

I am sure I have only suggested a few surface issues in bidding an exterior.

Any other thoughts? I am sure to have missed something... 

J


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

HomeGuardPaints said:


> flat price on every house of $450 should cover it


Cover what? Pressure washing? Please clarify... 

J


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## Brian (Apr 10, 2007)

The following formula works for calculating the price on any job: 
Total price = (((Overhead per man hour) + (Average wage + labor burden)) X Man hours) + (Materials + Material markup) + (Other expenses + markup) + Profit

Brian Phillips


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## TomHuggins (Mar 2, 2008)

I guess i a trying to figure out how much labor would be involved in a each process. Preasure Washing, Scapping, Painting.

I know there is alot of variables.

Lets assume you have a 4000 sq feet of painting service. The house is two stories and you are using ladders and hand painting cedar siding requiring 2 coats and spot priming.

How many labor hours could be estimated to do each phase

Preasure Wash, Light Scrapping, and apply 2 coats by hand with ladders
and only one person.


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

Ughh.... Ummmm This really depends on the experience of th individual. Some, depending on experience can move faster than others based on their knowledge of the skills required to complete the project. Like you, I am sure there are other variables...

J


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## cole191919 (Jan 10, 2008)

Well Tom, this again depends on what Brian has already said. How much are your materials, how fast you can work depends on how many hours it will turn out, overhead... these are things simply we cannot know about you.

I could give you a price of $xxxx, but I may also get cheaper materials, or have a higher overhead, or charge more per labour hour. I may also paint 3 times faster or slower than you...


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## Brian (Apr 10, 2007)

Tom,

The following formula can be used to calculate your man hours:

Man hours = (Time to perform 1 unit of the task X Quantity of the task)

I'm not trying to be a wise guy. As others have said, there are many variables, including your speed. It is impossible for us to tell how long it will take *you* to do the job.

The best advice I can offer is this: identify each task/ step in the job. Then assign a time to each task/ step. Be reasonable. Allow for obstructions, heights, etc.

Do you know the best way to eat an elephant? One bite at a time.

Brian Phillips


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## HomeGuardPaints (Jan 17, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Cover what? Pressure washing? Please clarify...
> 
> J


 
you mean you don't think everything would be covered for my flat rate?:jester: :jester: :jester: :smartass:


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## HomeGuardPaints (Jan 17, 2008)

on a more serious note get the 2008 paint estimator book and use it until you can create your own man hour estimates. then figure out how much you need to charge per hour to cover direct costs + overhead costs + reasonable profit and then multiply it by hours per job.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Look here for the 2007 version: (save a few bucks)

http://www.bookmarki.com/2007-National-Painting-Cost-Estimator-p/9781572181793.htm


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Even


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Even cheaper here: (new and used)
Amazon.com: 2007 National Painting Cost Estimator (9781572181793): Dennis D. Gleason: Books


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## Wing 54 (Jan 3, 2008)

Found the 2008 for $38.95 on Amazon new and ordered it.

Thanks Bikerboy. BTW guess what the Wing stands for? What's yer scoot?


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Wing 54 said:


> Thanks Bikerboy. BTW guess what the Wing stands for? What's yer scoot?


Can figure what the "Wing" stands for. One deluxe super luxury motopickel.

I currently have a 2001 HD Sportster, an 1986 Sportster bored out to 1600cc (88ci) a 1965 FLH and a 1972 Kawasaki H2 (love to choke on two stroke smoke!)


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## DreamScapes (Jun 10, 2009)

*offtopic*

I cant delete my post?


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

PDCA Cost & Estimating Guide www.pdca.org


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## Ranch Hand (Feb 20, 2013)

*Calculator*

I've been fine with this rule. $30 hr pressure washing. I pay my guy $15 hr to pressure wash. Leaves $15 hr profit.

Painting is $1.25 sq. ft of home space. Sigle story walls only no trim. Single coat. 3000 sq. ft home = $3,750.00

$1.50 sq. ft of home space. Single story with trim. Single coat. 3000 sq. ft home = $4,500.00

$1.75 sq. ft of home space. Ladder required (two story) walls only no trim. Single coat.... and so on. 

I never run out of work and always make money using this. Pay my help $10-$12 hr each.

Materials included in this price.

Of coarse repairs, rotted wood, extra maintenance would be extra.


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## Brian C (Oct 8, 2011)

you should be making a 50 % profit on top what your workers wages are.
You also need to charge the customer full retail price for the paint.


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## GreenGuy (Feb 14, 2013)

Ranch Hand said:


> I've been fine with this rule. $30 hr pressure washing. I pay my guy $15 hr to pressure wash. Leaves $15 hr profit.
> 
> Painting is $1.25 sq. ft of home space. Sigle story walls only no trim. Single coat. 3000 sq. ft home = $3,750.00
> 
> ...



I thought you paid that guy $15/hr to pressure wash? Hmmm...... Anyway here's how I estimate an exterior. Actually interiors too. I use the same formula
-amount of work to go into job. Doesn't matter what the work is really. I just try to rough out how long it would take me to get it done. I don't mess with square feet or none of that.
-I guess at about how many pounds of materials I need and then multiply that by $10. Then I just increase it all by about 100%. This is to cover any oversights I may have made and to cover things that may come up unexpectedly. Like if my car breaks down or my dog bites somebody else I need to have that extra cash on hand to cover it. And if them things don't happen its all just more profit for me. 
-I take them numbers and I add them together and see if I think it's too high. Because sometimes it is and I don't think the customer gonna want it so ill just take some money off to make sure they accept it. 
-that's usually how I get to my average interior/exterior price, which is $65,000. And that's all for one coat too. But I put it on thick and I tell em all that and they're all ok with that and happy so far.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Hmmm... an old pricing thread. Would that be considered a "double negative"?


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

GreenGuy said:


> I thought you paid that guy $15/hr to pressure wash? Hmmm...... Anyway here's how I estimate an exterior. Actually interiors too. I use the same formula
> -amount of work to go into job. Doesn't matter what the work is really. I just try to rough out how long it would take me to get it done. I don't mess with square feet or none of that.
> -I guess at about how many pounds of materials I need and then multiply that by $10. Then I just increase it all by about 100%. This is to cover any oversights I may have made and to cover things that may come up unexpectedly. Like if my car breaks down or my dog bites somebody else I need to have that extra cash on hand to cover it. And if them things don't happen its all just more profit for me.
> -I take them numbers and I add them together and see if I think it's too high. Because sometimes it is and I don't think the customer gonna want it so ill just take some money off to make sure they accept it.
> -that's usually how I get to my average interior/exterior price, which is $65,000. And that's all for one coat too. But I put it on thick and I tell em all that and they're all ok with that and happy so far.


 

A *paragraph* (from the Greek _paragraphos_, "_to write beside_" or "_written beside_") is a self-contained unit of a discourse in writing dealing with a particular point or idea. A paragraph consists of one or more sentences.[1][2] The start of a paragraph is indicated by beginning on a new line.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Math is hard.


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## cdaniels (Oct 20, 2012)

Life is hard.....it's harder when you're stupid.
John Wayne


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## kingsebi (Jan 27, 2009)

*You need help*

Sounds like your not quite ready for this. Find someone who has experience bidding jobs and take him along with you. Let him put number on it and explain the process to you. Do something nice for him for helping you out.

When your new, you are going to get burned. You're going to learn some things the hard way. it's the nature of the beast.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

GreenGuy said:


> -that's usually how I get to my average interior/exterior price, which is *$65,000*. And that's all for one coat too. But I put it on thick and I tell em all that and they're all ok with that and happy so far.


I'm just shooting at the hip here but that sounds a little steep.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

TJ Paint said:


> I'm just shooting at the hip here but that sounds a little steep.


TJ, I'm assuming you got trolled.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Gough said:


> TJ, I'm assuming you got trolled.


In my optimistic mood, I assumed it was a typo...

My bad


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

All you can do is charge as much as you think they will pay.... key in all your factors and depends on how bad you want it also..


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

TJ Paint said:


> I'm just shooting at the hip here but that sounds a little steep.


 Its too bad you still dont have your John Wayne profile picture, your quote would have seem more real!


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## marksimon112 (Aug 28, 2013)

I would be interested in what the formula is that you have been using and why you don't feel confident with it. 

The usual method employed by painters is to charge by the square foot and not by the hour or just some sort of flat figure. Other factors that would figure into the cost would be the paint, surface preparation and any repairs that might have to be made before painting can be started. Estimating by the square foot gives the most honest and qualifying bid to a customer as to why they are paying what they are.

May be http://www.askmehelpdesk.com/exterior-home-improvement/how-do-exterior-painting-estimate-354168.html


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## Carl (Jun 18, 2011)

marksimon112 said:


> I would be interested in what the formula is that you have been using and why you don't feel confident with it.
> 
> The usual method employed by painters is to charge by the square foot and not by the hour or just some sort of flat figure. Other factors that would figure into the cost would be the paint, surface preparation and any repairs that might have to be made before painting can be started. Estimating by the square foot gives the most honest and qualifying bid to a customer as to why they are paying what they are.
> 
> May be http://www.askmehelpdesk.com/exterior-home-improvement/how-do-exterior-painting-estimate-354168.html


No it's not. The usual bidding method for a painter is to walk around the job, figure out how long it will take in terms of man hours, then multiply this by whatever hourly rate he is wanting to charge, add in his other costs and then present the customer with a flat price for the entire job.


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## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

Carl said:


> No it's not. The usual bidding method for a painter is to walk around the job, figure out how long it will take in terms of man hours, then multiply this by whatever hourly rate he is wanting to charge, add in his other costs and then present the customer with a flat price for the entire job.


Having been painting homes for many years I'm sure allot of us can look at a job and have a good idea what to charge . Myself having learned to take off blueprints( manually) many moons ago I got into the habit of knowing my footage. If there's 500 LF of trim and 3000 SF of body, 22 windows, 3 doors etc etc i know my production rates so I apply them to the takeoff. I also factor in loss time , travel, and PITA factor. I don't like to guesstimate.

I have so many painters tell me what the going rate is and that's what they change cause they don't know any better. When I ask them there profit or percentage of job was profit they are clueless. It's why guys today still charge the same price as 20 yrs ago. Ill ask them hourly rate and its 25-30 bucks an hr with no material markup allot let the HO buy the paint ... Anyway an exterior takeoff can be figured many ways, sq ft, or man days, so long as you know your rate and don't guess your entitled to make a profit for your hard work.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

thinkpainting/nick said:


> Having been painting homes for many years I'm sure allot of us can look at a job and have a good idea what to charge . Myself having learned to take off blueprints( manually) many moons ago I got into the habit of knowing my footage. If there's 500 LF of trim and 3000 SF of body, 22 windows, 3 doors etc etc i know my production rates so I apply them to the takeoff. I also factor in loss time , travel, and PITA factor. I don't like to guesstimate.
> 
> I have so many painters tell me what the going rate is and that's what they change cause they don't know any better. When I ask them there profit or percentage of job was profit they are clueless. It's why guys today still charge the same price as 20 yrs ago. Ill ask them hourly rate and its 25-30 bucks an hr with no material markup allot let the HO buy the paint ... Anyway an exterior takeoff can be figured many ways, sq ft, or man days, so long as you know your rate and don't guess your entitled to make a profit for your hard work.


 Now that's thinking paint/nick!:yes:


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

Buy some fancy estimating software, and a book,,,,then throw it away.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

high fibre said:


> Buy some fancy estimating software, and a book,,,,then throw it away.


Morning John.


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## gamby (Feb 29, 2008)

I like the dartboard method*. 10k on outer ring converging to 50k on inner ring*


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

TomHuggins said:


> I have seen alot of post about estimating interior painting.
> 
> How about exterior painting? Presure Washing, Scrapping, Especially if it is more than 1 story, is it better to use scaffolding verse ladder?


scaffolding for exteriors slow and cumbersome in almost every situation (PITA).
I can’t remember the last time using them. That said, ladder-safety cannot be over-emphasized.

Time + Materials is a good starting point.

When you are just starting out, you should be lower than the experienced guys, so don’t worry about hitting a magic number. In many cases you can outbid the experienced pros.

Ask yourself what’s the least you would take to do all that work, and start there.
Bid materials separately.


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