# Baseboards estimate per foot



## cfehr44 (Aug 11, 2013)

What the going rate per foot to sand and spray 2
coats semigloss on original baseboards. The home is vacant and has no floors but the walls will have to be masked. Other than that it's just sand and paint.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

cfehr44 said:


> What the going rate .........


 As much as the customer will pay. 

Here is a formula I use when pricing baseboards: E=mc*2
Just plug in your production numbers and your good to go :thumbsup:


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## hotwing7 (Mar 31, 2012)

Cost of materials + cost of labour + cost of sundries = quote


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## wje (Apr 11, 2009)

I like your avatar^^


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Taken from sticky, _*"New to Paint Talk? Please read this"*_


_"What type of questions can I post?

Answer: 
If it has to do with painting, it’s pretty wide open regarding what can be posted. Checking the sub-forums will quickly show a variety of topics that are covered and allow you to consider where your post might best fit in. Please be aware that pricing questions are generally frowned upon. There are so many variables when it comes to pricing that trying to provide accurate information through a venue such as Paint Talk is almost impossible. Questions like, "How much should I charge for this...?", almost always result in less than friendly responses, or even an outright closing of the post by a moderator, so it's best to just avoid posting them in the first place."
_


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Or just charge the HO 5 lbs of bacon or tree fidy


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## cfehr44 (Aug 11, 2013)

I come here for second opinions from other painters, not to read every sticky and tremble at the thought of idiotic replies or posting in the wrong forum/sub forum. Almost every aspect of this business has an average going rate per foot (sq or linear) and I like to hear what others would charge in a given situation.


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## wje (Apr 11, 2009)

cfehr44 said:


> I come here for second opinions from other painters, not to read every sticky and tremble at the thought of idiotic replies or posting in the wrong forum/sub forum. Almost every aspect of this business has an average going rate per foot (sq or linear) and I like to hear what others would charge in a given situation.


Unfortunately you will have to try Pricetalk.com if you are going to wanna talk prices. It is not allowed here..


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## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

cfehr44 said:


> I come here for second opinions from other painters, not to read every sticky and tremble at the thought of idiotic replies or posting in the wrong forum/sub forum. Almost every aspect of this business has an average going rate per foot (sq or linear) and I like to hear what others would charge in a given situation.


That's where your wrong all depends on your overhead and production and most important your profit. If your talking new construction then Then just figure the rates from 20 yrs ago that's what most our working for today. As for my opinion depends on where job is , what floor, access, the type of paint used and who's spraying. Hope that helps.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

.....


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

cfehr44 said:


> Almost every aspect of this business has an average going rate per foot (sq or linear)


Oh it does? Tell us what it is then since you know.


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## South-FL-Painter (Jan 17, 2012)

cfehr44 said:


> I come here for second opinions from other painters, not to read every sticky and tremble at the thought of idiotic replies or posting in the wrong forum/sub forum. Almost every aspect of this business has an average going rate per foot (sq or linear) and I like to hear what others would charge in a given situation.


How did those closet doors went?


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

cfehr44 said:


> I come here for second opinions from other painters, not to read every sticky and tremble at the thought of idiotic replies or posting in the wrong forum/sub forum. Almost every aspect of this business has an average going rate per foot (sq or linear) and I like to hear what others would charge in a given situation.


I don't have sq or linear foot price to give you, even if I did you probably couldn't make the same profits. I also don't concern myself with the going rate. Looking at the large amount of rag tag painters driving worn out mini vans out there I would be a fool to want to compete with them on price.

Concentrate instead on offering a better service, and you can make your very own going rate. Set yourself apart from everyone else, become an expert in your field. When you do the right clients will be afraid to hire someone else.


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## Greg Mrakich (Apr 19, 2010)

$400.00 per for with the next 20 free.


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

Going rate is different for each biz because things like insurance costs differently for EVERY company. 

But... I've heard $100/hr tossed around alot locally...


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

cfehr44 said:


> I come here for second opinions from other painters, not to read every sticky and tremble at the thought of idiotic replies or posting in the wrong forum/sub forum. Almost every aspect of this business has an average going rate per foot (sq or linear) and I like to hear what others would charge in a given situation.


I don't think anyone expects you to tremble over anything anyone posts here nor are you expected to read through every sticky. That's why I posted the section from the one pertaining to pricing questions since it was applicable to what you were asking. There's a reason it's in a sticky - it explains why pricing questions never seem to go well.

Straight Lines gave you some good advice. Everyone has their formula for working out prices based on their own experience. What one guy's rates are likely wouldn't work at all for another painter. 

Also, as TJ pointed out, if you are aware of the existence of going rates for production then why are you asking here? If someone were to give you a price and you considered it too low or too high would you use it anyway or would you come up with a rate that works for you?

The reason that giving out pricing rates are not advisable is there are just too many variables involved. Where you are located, how fast you work, the size and type of profile the baseboards have, exactly how much and type of prep will be needed (I know you said just sanding but that's rarely all that is needed), are just a few that come to mind.

If you are insistent on getting "hard" rates, you might look into the PDCA programs and manuals for estimating. Here's a link to their site:
http://www.pdca.org/store/


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## Painter-Aaron (Jan 17, 2013)

driftweed said:


> Going rate is different for each biz because things like insurance costs differently for EVERY company.
> 
> But... I've heard $100/hr tossed around alot locally...


I would say there are a lot of quotes out at three fifty,


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

When in doubt, google it.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

thinkpainting/nick said:


> That's where your wrong all depends on your overhead and production and most important your profit. If your talking new construction then Then just figure the rates from 20 yrs ago that's what most our working for today. As for my opinion depends on where job is , what floor, access, the type of paint used and who's spraying. Hope that helps.


That's certainly true around here.


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

<P>Also depends how many feet there are. If its 1 foot of base im charging at least $250 a foot.</P>


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

straight_lines said:


> I don't have sq or linear foot price to give you, even if I did you probably couldn't make the same profits. I also don't concern myself with the going rate. Looking at the large amount of rag tag painters driving worn out mini vans out there I would be a fool to want to compete with them on price.
> 
> Concentrate instead on offering a better service, and you can make your very own going rate. Set yourself apart from everyone else, become an expert in your field. When you do the right clients will be afraid to hire someone else.



:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## scottjr (Jan 14, 2012)

cfehr44 said:


> I come here for second opinions from other painters, not to read every sticky and tremble at the thought of idiotic replies or posting in the wrong forum/sub forum. Almost every aspect of this business has an average going rate per foot (sq or linear) and I like to hear what others would charge in a given situation.


Idiotic questions=idiotic replies


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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

$1 per linear foot. I don't know why guys in this forum get so butt hurt when guys ask these types of questions. Keep in mind, the price will depend on your location. 70 linear ft per hour is the production rate I use.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

Westview said:


> $1 per linear foot


And the correct answer isssss


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Westview said:


> Keep in mind, the price will depend on your location. 70 linear ft per hour is the production rate I use.


Depends on more than that.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

I'm getting a buck and a quarter a linear ft but there's also 50k lin ft of baseboard. And then I'm painting the walls and there aren't any floors in it, soooo its not really the same thing... 

Real world current example, just to make the point it doesn't translate simply. Things are job dependent...


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## cfehr44 (Aug 11, 2013)

straight_lines said:


> I don't have sq or linear foot price to give you, even if I did you probably couldn't make the same profits. I also don't concern myself with the going rate. Looking at the large amount of rag tag painters driving worn out mini vans out there I would be a fool to want to compete with them on price.
> 
> Concentrate instead on offering a better service, and you can make your very own going rate. Set yourself apart from everyone else, become an expert in your field. When you do the right clients will be afraid to hire someone else.


Wow, I can't believe I got some productive replies among the whiny bs. I appreciate and agree with the above quote. There's always painters waiting to lowball you just to get the job, but I'm not one of them. I have a method for bidding jobs but whenever I'm asked to quote a job in an odd scenario I like to get other opinions on what's reasonable. Yeah there's variables to every job that are unique but no matter the variables there's still an acceptable price range.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Take the good and leave the bad. Tommy said what everyone else basically said, he just worded it differently.


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## Painted-Bride (Jul 31, 2013)

I've seen a thread here concerning Collage Pro Painters. Someone asked (with limited hands on experience) how do they come up with their prices. A CPP rep stated, they price according to Sf., and Lf.,. I whole heartedly believe that they have a good method of formulating their price.

It seems like most painters "eyeball" the job to get their prices. That to me, seems like an inconsistent way to price a job. That is why, when a HO is getting multiple prices, contractors prices seem to vary by a wide margin. There apparently is no school of estimating it seems - nor does anyone here have a proven method of estimating they can share - seemingly, just the school of hard knocks.

It's interesting though, insurance adjusters, with no hands on experience, seem to be able to estimate painting work. My guess is; SQ / LF and a little mathematics and some sort of average rate to base their figures on... 

So I can relate to the OP's interest in pricing by LF.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

cfehr44 said:


> Wow, I can't believe I got some productive replies among the whiny bs. I appreciate and agree with the above quote. There's always painters waiting to lowball you just to get the job, but I'm not one of them. I have a method for bidding jobs but whenever I'm asked to quote a job in an odd scenario I like to get other opinions on what's reasonable. Yeah there's variables to every job that are unique but no matter the variables there's still an acceptable price range.


Why didn't you just ask what an "acceptable" per hour rate Is for doing this? That would have made more sense. It still would be a stupid question but more acceptable than your stupid question.


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## MIZZOU (Nov 18, 2012)

Painted-Bride said:


> I've seen a thread here concerning Collage Pro Painters. Someone asked (with limited hands on experience) how do they come up with their prices. A CPP rep stated, they price according to Sf., and Lf.,. I whole heartedly believe that they have a good method of formulating their price.
> 
> It seems like most painters "eyeball" the job to get their prices. That to me, seems like an inconsistent way to price a job. That is why, when a HO is getting multiple prices, contractors prices seem to vary by a wide margin. There apparently is no school of estimating it seems - nor does anyone here have a proven method of estimating they can share - seemingly, just the school of hard knocks.
> 
> ...


Insurance adjusters... Lmao!!!


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

Look, it's not a big secret that $50/hr/person is a good starting point for the self employed. You then break that down into your production rate of sqft/hr. 

Example: I sprayed my last job (1581 sqft floor space) in 32 man hours with a total prep time of 20 man hrs. I charged $2371 labor only. 2371/32 =$74.00/hr. 

With 2 people it should have been $100/hr. They were slow. I quoted it as 24 man hours. 

Because we did not achieve production it was $1.50/sqft. Which according to google is way off the $2.50/sqft national average. But that average includes all materials (which by calculations translates to $0.50/sqft in physical materials).

Luckily, I still made $. Just not as much as i should have. Some will say I am cheap, some will say I am expensive. Depends on what your clientelle will pay. If your out in the burbs or a gated community, yeah you're gonna make more/less work. I do rentals, my pricing is volume based. No volume = no $$.

The reason we dont talk pricing is because it's no good for newbies. It doesn't teach them to get a grasp on ALL their bills. And when you don't consider ALL your bills, your going to fail. Owning a business is ALL ABOUT MATH. If you are too lazy to figure out the variables, you're doomed.

Mods: feel free to edit if i crossed any lines.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Unit pricing only works if you know the production rates of the painters doing the work.


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## SeattleHomeServices (Sep 20, 2012)

cfehr44 said:


> What the going rate per foot to sand and spray 2
> coats semigloss on original baseboards. The home is vacant and has no floors but the walls will have to be masked. Other than that it's just sand and paint.


It's been said before BUT don't ask this and here's why:
What someone else charges here is based on too many factors that are out of your control. For example:
I'm in seattle, sole proprietor, no employees, pay taxes (all of them)!and charge a rate based on what I need to make to have profit, reinvest capital into my business and grow. That same rate could be absurd if in a lower tax state like Kansas.

Here's how I arrived it my production times an rates. I bid a job and what I thought it would take based on hourly rate an materials an production times. I timed myself on everything. I put results into a spreadsheet. I repeated over the course of about 2 months. Did the math, found out I'm not charging enough based on how long it was taking an raised rates a little and tried to work more efficiently as well. Now I can say what it costs me to do anything. For new stuff that I've never done I just wing it and sometimes win, sometimes lose. 

That being said, I've had employees before and if you're asking this question with employees it's too late in the game. You have to have an operational standard for your employees. It should take them an hour to paint 100 LFT of a particular type of base 1.5 for another, etc. you bid on that standard. Make sense? Time to burn some serious midnight oil and tighten up your operation.


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## Painted-Bride (Jul 31, 2013)

*A Guide to Estimating Most Jobs*

*Job Estimating — Interior Repaint*

Walls & Ceilings 1 coat = $0.35 to .40 per sq ft
2 coats = $0.40 to $0.50 per sq ft
Doors & windows 1 coat = $20.00 to $30.00
2 coats = $35.00 to $45.00
Spindles 1 coat = $3.00 to $4.50
2 coats = $5.50 to $7.50
Baseboards & Chair Rail1 coat = $0.50 to $0.75 per linear ft
2 coats = $0.75 to $1.00 per linear ft
Patching Estimate time and material

*Interior New Home Construction*

Walls & Ceilings2 coats = $0.30 to $0.40 per sq ft
3 coats = $0.50 to $0.70 per sq ft
Doors & windows (Painted) 2 coats = $25.00 to $35.00
3 coats = $35.00 to $45.00
Doors & windows (Stained)2 coats = $35.00 to $45.00
3 coats = $45.00 to $55.00
Crown Moulding Stage 1 = $1.00 per linear ft
Stage 2 = $1.50 per linear ft
Stage 3 = $2.00 per linear ft

*Job Estimating — Exterior*

*Exterior — Repaint & New Home Construction*
Siding — Smooth 1 Coat = $0.35 to $0.50 per sq ft
2 Coats = $0.55 to $0.75 per sq ft
Siding — rough sawn 1 Coat = $0.35 to $0.50 per sq ft
2 Coats = $0.55 to $0.75 per sq ft
Overhang / Soffit 1 Coat = $0.80 to $1.00 per sq ft
2 Coats = $1.20 to $1.50 per sq ft
*Add extra for Dental Crown Trim
Doors & Windows 1 Coat = $20.00 to $30.00
2 Coats = $35.00 to $45.00
Dormer (Small size) 1 Coat = $75.00 to $100.00
2 Coats = $110.00 to $150.00
Gables Sq ft = base x height divided by 2
Shutters 1 Coat = $25.00 to $35.00 pair
2 Coats = $37.00 to $52.00 pair
Guttering 1 Coat = $1.10 to $1.35 linear ft
2 Coats = $1.65 to $2.00 linear ft
Flashing 1 Coat = $1.00 to $1.50 linear ft
2 Coats = $1.50 to $2.00 linear ft
Concrete Block/Split Face 1 Coat = $0.40 to $0.80 per sq ft
2 Coats = $0.80 to $1.60 per sq ft

*Exterior - New Home Construction ONLY*

Concrete Block/Split Face 2 coats = $0.65 to $0.80 per sq ft
3 coats = $0.95 to $1.20 per sq ft
Shadow Box Fence Total sq ft + 30% divided by 120 sq ft/gal
for #1819
Fluted Block Horizontal liner f.+ 30% x Height divided
by 200 sq ft / gal for #6010 and #519
Pressure Washing = Time + Rental cost + Chemicals


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Painted-Bride said:


> Job Estimating &#151; Interior Repaint
> 
> Walls & Ceilings 1 coat = $0.35 to .40 per sq ft
> 2 coats = $0.40 to $0.50 per sq ft
> ...


That might work for some painters, but not for me.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

This is why Mrs. Bender is not allowed in the plan room.


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> That might work for some painters, but not for me.


So, if a room is crammed full of furniture and nick nacks, how much does that affect your formula?


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

epretot said:


> So, if a room is crammed full of furniture and nick nacks, how much does that affect your formula?


I never give estimates based on unit pricing. For me, there are too many variables in jobs and clients to do this.

I recently received an online quote request that included everything measured to the foot. I told the guy i would need to see the project and meet with him to give an accurate price. He replied that he was looking for ballpark estimates to determine if he could afford have it done or do it himself. He just saved me some time there!


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> I never give estimates based on unit pricing. For me, there are too many variables in jobs and clients to do this.
> 
> I recently received an online quote request that included everything measured to the foot. I told the guy i would need to see the project and meet with him to give an accurate price. He replied that he was looking for ballpark estimates to determine if he could afford have it done or do it himself. He just saved me some time there!


Sorry, that comment was at painted bride.


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

Painted-Bride said:


> *Job Estimating — Interior Repaint*
> 
> Walls & Ceilings 1 coat = $0.35 to .40 per sq ft
> 2 coats = $0.40 to $0.50 per sq ft
> ...


Do you really use these? How come your sq/ft price only goes up .10 for an extra coat. For interior repaints you generally use a better quality finish, that equates to .10 sq/ft and up just for material. I can see slightly less than double the one coat rate, but man you would seem to lose if you ever have to double coat or prime and two coat.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

MikeCalifornia said:


> Do you really use these? How come your sq/ft price only goes up .10 for an extra coat. For interior repaints you generally use a better quality finish, that equates to .10 sq/ft and up just for material. I can see slightly less than double the one coat rate, but man you would seem to lose if you ever have to double coat or prime and two coat.


Its on the internet. It must be true.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

MikeCalifornia said:


> Do you really use these? How come your sq/ft price only goes up .10 for an extra coat. For interior repaints you generally use a better quality finish, that equates to .10 sq/ft and up just for material. I can see slightly less than double the one coat rate, but man you would seem to lose if you ever have to double coat or prime and two coat.


Its copy and pasted from the PPG site.


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## Painted-Bride (Jul 31, 2013)

straight_lines said:


> Its copy and pasted from the PPG site.


Yes, however, I like to think of it as, "I shared a wealth of pricing info found from a creditable source". A Guide to Estimating Most Jobs 
I believe the pricing was noted as 2008 / 2009 prices.

I hope this brings resolution to the many pricing questions asked on PT. 
I guess there is kind of a going rate after all? :thumbsup:

Hope I helped!


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Painted-Bride said:


> Yes, however, I like to think of it as, "I shared a wealth of pricing info found from a creditable source". A Guide to Estimating Most Jobs
> I believe the pricing was noted as 2008 / 2009
> 
> Hope I helped!


Just one thing, do you have a time machine so I can get back to 08?


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

There's definitely a going rate ... It's called competitive pricing.. My prices are in line with my
Competition an they range from 1
Man operations to over 50


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

I'd be more than happy to accept this info, and give you full credit for it, if it would resolve all future pricing questions.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Ole34 said:


> There's definitely a going rate ... It's called competitive pricing.. My prices are in line with my
> Competition an they range from 1
> Man operations to over 50



I'm laughing on this one. How many of you go in low and nake it up on change orders? Doesnt apply to res repaint but nc conmercial. I'm doing a two coat nc at 15 cents a square per coat . Gc picks up material. The PPG guide would call me an idiot. I'm putting in a BA pool in 4 weeks because of this job. Whose stupid now? Heck, the change orders incurred because of an iron clad contract will be my vacation time...

Btw, hey AJ Fedy, your looking lovely as an undead painted bride.


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

Are you effing kidding me? Do people legitimately use these numbers?

Materials cost x 5?

25-35 bucks an hour?

No wonder 90% of painters are always broke. Just the hourly numbers alone don't add up unless your paying $10/hr. 

I personally charge $40/hr and I am undercutting my competition.

I'm sorry, but those are "job security" numbers. The kind you make public hoping your competition is dumb enough to use them and go out of business.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Paradigmzz said:


> I'm laughing on this one. How many of you go in low and nake it up on change orders? Doesnt apply to res repaint but nc conmercial. I'm doing a two coat nc at 15 cents a square per coat . Gc picks up material. The PPG guide would call me an idiot. I'm putting in a BA pool in 4 weeks because of this job. Whose stupid now? Heck, the change orders incurred because of an iron clad contract will be my vacation time...
> 
> Btw, hey AJ Fedy, your looking lovely as an undead painted bride.


Whats a BA pool?


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

driftweed said:


> Are you effing kidding me? Do people legitimately use these numbers?
> 
> Materials cost x 5?
> 
> ...



Yup those are near break even numbers for a legitimate painting company.


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

Ok, my phone app keeps saying multiple new posts in this thread. Yet i come to check and nothing new. Supwitdat?


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## Painted-Bride (Jul 31, 2013)

TJ Paint said:


> Just one thing, do you have a time machine so I can get back to 08?


Add 8.50% for inflation and you will be spot on...

I am not the publisher..... soooooo..... DON"T SHOOT THE MESSENGER!

:blink:


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

All of that pricing is from PDCA, not PPG. 

And if you factor in inflation for the 2 coat interior wall/ceiling repaint price it would come to $0.53.5-$0.67 per square foot of wall space.

Not sure how close to reality that is, as I'm still trying to figure out square footage pricing/production rates for things. But maybe someone who has theres nailed down can tell us if that is even in the ball park.


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

Hines Painting said:


> All of that pricing is from PDCA, not PPG.
> 
> And if you factor in inflation for the 2 coat interior wall/ceiling repaint price it would come to $0.53.5-$0.67 per square foot of wall space.
> 
> Not sure how close to reality that is, as I'm still trying to figure out square footage pricing/production rates for things. But maybe someone who has theres nailed down can tell us if that is even in the ball park.


If that is from PDCA, that is BS for PPG to put this on their site. Makes HO and DA painters think this is the going rate. I'm not cheap but not the most expensive. I wouldn't consider doing exterior for less than $50/hr (my bid rate, not T&M) and goes up for two story.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Hines Painting said:


> All of that pricing is from PDCA, not PPG.
> 
> And if you factor in inflation for the 2 coat interior wall/ceiling repaint price it would come to $0.53.5-$0.67 per square foot of wall space.
> 
> Not sure how close to reality that is, as I'm still trying to figure out square footage pricing/production rates for things. But maybe someone who has theres nailed down can tell us if that is even in the ball park.


 I don't price that way myself. But another contractor that I sub for on occasion gets $0.85 per sq ft on walls for two costs of Aura. Pointing up included. 

I only say that because as I have posted before, this contractor is very transparent about pricing. 
This is in JC TN, and its a whole different ball game 50 miles away where I live. And another whole different ball game 50 miles in the other direction. 

It still doesn't make sense to talk about these numbers. We got members from India for crying out loud.


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

Ya, I agree that talking numbers doesn't make a whole lot of sense to for most of us. 

But, if the PDCA is supposed to have a pulse on the Painting Industry as a whole, and there numbers aren't even close then how can anyone trust their other info.

I'm not a member, I've considered joining, but I'd be curious to see how accurate they actually are to judge their reliability more than anything.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Bender said:


> Whats a BA pool?


Badassed...


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## cdaniels (Oct 20, 2012)

If I make good money on a room I throw the base in for free.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

cdaniels said:


> If I make good money on a room I throw the base in for free.


That must really skew the average price...


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

My only thought on the PDCA estimates are they don't include OH and profit? My OH runs 20-25% and profit is whatever I want to make. I guess for a starting point it does work, then add your own after that.


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

Well there ya go folks. The official going rate we are all compared to regardless of other circumstances.


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

Ok so I did the posted math against mine.

Room size: 12*12*8 walls only and for simplicity no window/door space to deduct. 384sqft wall space/144 floor 2 coats

PDCA says: 384 * 0.5 =$192
(less than $100/room/coat)

My personal bid: 144 * 1.5 = 216
(108/room/coat) and thats cheap

Hourly: 6 * 50 = $300 (1 person)
Thats $150/coat/room

Hmmm....

Now lets say you need to make $50/hr/person.

Pdca says to pull that off: 192/50 =3.84 hrs (thats 1 person) Thats 1 coat every 2 hrs (don't forget basic prep/sand between coats)

I'm sorry, I ain't that fast. The numbers don't add up.

It's not hard to convert to square feet/hr. As long as you know your production rates, & that is unique to each person/ application method.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

One thing I know is if I'm doing one room, my sf price is going to be higher than if I'm doing multible rooms. 

This whole thing is funny.


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## Painted-Bride (Jul 31, 2013)

driftweed said:


> Ok so I did the posted math against mine.
> 
> Room size: 12*12*8 walls only and for simplicity no window/door space to deduct. 384sqft wall space/144 floor 2 coats
> 
> ...


From PPG's Site.

_*Please note: *All guidelines are subject to change and are only projections based on 2008-2009 estimates. PPG Architectural Coatings relinquishes responsibility for quoting and pricing on any jobs referenced from this manual. Please use common business sense when estimating pricing, as all estimates in this manual are subject to change. Thank you!_


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## Painted-Bride (Jul 31, 2013)

Brian said:


> The price of a job is comprised of 4 basic components: labor costs, material costs, overhead, and profit. Estimating is the process of identifying the labor and material costs. We add our overhead and profit to those costs to obtain our price.
> 
> Overhead—advertising, rent, insurance, utilities, phone, owner’s salary, etc.— is completely unique to each company. Without knowing these numbers, it is impossible to properly price a job.
> 
> Profit goals are also unique to each company. Again, without knowing the specific profit goals for a company, it is impossible to properly price a job.


*The above sounds nice in theory, but at the end of the day, if you are not competitive with pricing, you will not be able to keep your business a float. *


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

Painted bride, the issue is how many are going to ignore that.

It's like saying "no offense intended" right before a racist/sexist joke. 

Like you said, your just the messenger. But tossing out numbers establishes a "going rate" that not just the pro's see, but the customers as well. 

I am glad i saw those numbers, as I can now see why I lose work over pricing.


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

So if office space for me in evansville, In is $650/month how can mike who lives one town over who has a $1000/month lease compete? Are you saying it comes out of MY salary to pay my companies bills?

We both work for same price? Mike needs to be faster?


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Putting paint on stuff is only about 30-40% of the total equation for me. ♥


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## Painted-Bride (Jul 31, 2013)

driftweed said:


> So if office space for me in evansville, In is $650/month how can mike who lives one town over who has a $1000/month lease compete? Are you saying it comes out of MY salary to pay my companies bills?
> 
> We both work for same price? Mike needs to be faster?


If you have office space for $650 per month and Mike has office space for $1,000 per month, here are your options:

Mike needs to cut expenses to compete with you, or
Mike needs to make his money in volume, to compete with you, or
Mike needs to be a better salesmen than you to compete with you.
*Productions Rates*

If you can paint 20 Panel doors in 8 hours, and Mike can only paint 10 Panel doors in 8 hours, you both still need to charge close to the same unit price, to be completive in your market. Here are your options:

Mike needs to hire faster and more experienced painters to offer a competitive price, or
Mike needs to be a better salesmen than you to compete with your production rates.
I stand firm on the need to give competitive prices over the long haul.

*Note - No, I don't expect a legitimate pro contractor to compete with a guy working on the side and out of his Ford Escort (hatch back).


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

My point is the more public those numbers are, the more people will expect those prices nationwide.

I can make those numbers work here in indiana. But a guy in los angeles more than likely cannot due to regulations. 

If a customer were to google search pricing and stumble across those numbers then they could be in for sticker shock. And how is a PDCA member supposed to feel when they're numbers are used against them.

"Well, mike, i can see your a member of the pdca. So i searched online and they said you should only charge this much. You didn't add $1000 because of where i live, did you?"

It's one thing if a paint contractor puts his numbers out there. And another thing for a national organization to do the same.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

driftweed said:


> "Well, mike, i can see your a member of the pdca. So i searched online and they said you should only charge this much. You didn't add $1000 because of where i live, did you?"


They sure do! I had a rough estimate from a glass company to put in a new shower at my house. Gave them the dimensions and they said between $700-$1000. They asked my address, I told them and they said "you're probably looking at more like $1200-$1500" simply because they knew the neighborhood. Maybe people in my neighborhood have nicer stuff? More complicated installs?? No idea, but I sure felt like I got a driveway quote.

PDCA uses averages, every market is different. Paul working in downtown Chicago is probably billing a different rate than someone in Okemos Michigan. Depending where Paul is, he could be paying high rates just to park his vehicle at job sites! That's all part of "overhead".


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

driftweed said:


> My point is the more public those numbers are, the more people will expect those prices nationwide.
> 
> I can make those numbers work here in indiana. But a guy in los angeles more than likely cannot due to regulations.
> 
> ...


Not for nothin and I'm not a contractor but you'd all IMO (residential repaint house painters) be so much better off if you did have A open transparent pricing guide. the low bidders is what kills you guys. Again and not for nothin but I hit the certa pro cite one time, the online estimate. Yeh I punched in all Kimda numbers on all Kimda rooms and reversed engineered. they're slightly higher than the outline from the bride but close. A dollar a sq ft and a dollar a linear ft for finished work is about right as a start and it jigs a bit from there.

then there was a guy on here. I forget his name but he was in Fla. His website has the numbers posted right on it. Bout identicle numbers to the Certa Pro site. the funny thing, that guy's site went over real big on the PT.


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

Well, for the fun of it I just bid a rental repaint, walls only and no bathrooms or closets at the inflated rates of $0.67 a foot for 2 coats and then added paint to that just to see how it ends up.

I'm gonna try to squeeze it in on wed-Friday so I'll come back and share if it was close. I suspect it was a little low, bit I wanted to land this lady as a client anyways since she has a few rentals, and her current painter has been leaving her hanging.

If I'm not supposed to share what I end up making per hour then someone can just reply to this and let me know and I won't put specifics.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Any of us who have been in business awhile know those numbers are crap. We all have our own ways of bidding and pricing that we've fine tuned and tweaked over the years and most of us are comfortable with what we charge. And if we aren't, well no one is stopping us from adjusting it. 

If a customer whipped out a sheet with those numbers on it and started questioning me why mine were different I don't think I would even say anything - I'd just turn around and get back in my truck and take off.

Maybe those figures are good for some green newbie who does't have a clue where to start in the bidding game but that's about all they are good for IMO.


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

RH said:


> Any of us who have been in business awhile know those numbers are crap. We all have our own ways of bidding and pricing that we've fine tuned and tweaked over the years and most of us are comfortable with what we charge. And if we aren't, well no one is stopping us from adjusting it.
> 
> If a customer whipped out a sheet with those numbers on it and started questioning me why mine were different I don't think I would even say anything - I'd just turn around and get back in my truck and take off.
> 
> Maybe those figures are good for some green newbie who does't have a clue where to start in the bidding game but that's about all they are good for IMO.



That is most likely true, and I agree with it. But as someone who hasn't ever measured a job until about 3 weeks ago, I'm intrigued to see with how they line up to what my eyeball measurements tell me. 

My normal routine has been to walk through and add up how many days it will take to get the job done, multiply it by what I need to make per day and then add materials. But, occasionally I am off by a day or two so I figured I might as well figure out a more accurate measurement system. 

Although, I'm not real happy that it has increased my time at estimates substantially.


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## Painter-Aaron (Jan 17, 2013)

Hines Painting said:


> That is most likely true, and I agree with it. But as someone who hasn't ever measured a job until about 3 weeks ago, I'm intrigued to see with how they line up to what my eyeball measurements tell me.
> 
> My normal routine has been to walk through and add up how many days it will take to get the job done, multiply it by what I need to make per day and then add materials. But, occasionally I am off by a day or two so I figured I might as well figure out a more accurate measurement system.
> 
> Although, I'm not real happy that it has increased my time at estimates substantially.


I have landed a few jobs just because I took a bit longer. It makes the customer feel like you are being very thorough and your numbers are based on something more than just a guess. 

And besides, once you bid jobs based on rates you know you can complete on, you will never second guess your estimates on how long that task will actually take you


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

I'm only upset about spending too much time on a bid when I don't land the job.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Sometimes I bid exteriors on Google Earth.
Shhh:shifty:


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

I just use the assesors site. Type in the address and voila! Sqft numbers before you get out of the car. 
(jk)


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

driftweed said:


> I just use the assesors site. Type in the address and voila! Sqft numbers before you get out of the car.
> (jk)


Ahh Thank You. You just solved a problem for me:thumbsup:


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

I usually use Zillow for square footage :yes:


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Just like hire somebody to price your jobs out. Like no more need to think. Just stay at home and huff naptha.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

TJ Paint said:


> Just like hire somebody to price your jobs out. Like no more need to think. Just stay at home and huff naptha.


really?


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

chrisn said:


> really?


Naw
I just ask the potential customer how much I should charge.


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## cdaniels (Oct 20, 2012)

Bender said:


> Sometimes I bid exteriors on Google Earth.
> Shhh:shifty:


Me too.:thumbsup:


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## Painted-Bride (Jul 31, 2013)

RH said:


> Any of us who have been in business awhile know those numbers are crap. We all have our own ways of bidding and pricing that we've fine tuned and tweaked over the years and most of us are comfortable with what we charge. And if we aren't, well no one is stopping us from adjusting it.
> 
> If a customer whipped out a sheet with those numbers on it and started questioning me why mine were different I don't think I would even say anything - I'd just turn around and get back in my truck and take off.
> 
> Maybe those figures are good for some green newbie who does't have a clue where to start in the bidding game but that's about all they are good for IMO.


Those numbers were from 2008/2009 pricing.

I believe that the sq. ft., & lf., method are a great way to price jobs with consistency. 

I highly doubt that any customer would whip out the PPG pricing guide. Has it happened to you yet?


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Painted-Bride said:


> Those numbers were from 2008/2009 pricing.
> 
> I believe that the sq. ft., & lf., method are a great way to price jobs with consistency.
> 
> I highly doubt that any customer would whip out the PPG pricing guide. Has it happened to you yet?


Guess that disclaimer should have been in the op of those numbers. Makes them even less relevant IMO.

Hasn't happened yet. That's why I said "if".


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## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

Painted-Bride said:


> I've seen a thread here concerning Collage Pro Painters. Someone asked (with limited hands on experience) how do they come up with their prices. A CPP rep stated, they price according to Sf., and Lf.,. I whole heartedly believe that they have a good method of formulating their price.
> 
> It seems like most painters "eyeball" the job to get their prices. That to me, seems like an inconsistent way to price a job. That is why, when a HO is getting multiple prices, contractors prices seem to vary by a wide margin. There apparently is no school of estimating it seems - nor does anyone here have a proven method of estimating they can share - seemingly, just the school of hard knocks.
> 
> ...


Collage Pro knows how to price a job?? Yikes .. There is no set price none no none as far as sq ft . Your production rate and all your costs of doing business give you your sq ft rate not some industry rate out of thin air. Is there a standard sq ft rate No! Oh sure it's much easier and quicker to look at a job and just put someone else's sq ft rate 
Great book been around long time very simple explanation how to obtain sq ft pricing for your rate. Profit in the Painting Business. By Len Fife.


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## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

Painted-Bride said:


> Job Estimating &#151; Interior Repaint
> 
> Walls & Ceilings 1 coat = $0.35 to .40 per sq ft
> 2 coats = $0.40 to $0.50 per sq ft
> ...


Is this from 1990"s ??? What about loss time ? You pay a guy for 8 hrs lucky to get 6.5 production from him or her. What about travel, staging, moving the shop, cleanup, setup, masking, etc etc...


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## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

thinkpainting/nick said:


> Collage Pro knows how to price a job?? Yikes .. There is no set price none no none as far as sq ft . Your production rate and all your costs of doing business give you your sq ft rate not some industry rate out of thin air. Is there a standard sq ft rate No! Oh sure it's much easier and quicker to look at a job and just put someone else's sq ft rate
> Great book been around long time very simple explanation how to obtain sq ft pricing for your rate. Profit in the Painting Business. By Len Fife.


Book is very old so it's a Lille tarnished but great info simple to the point!


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## Painted-Bride (Jul 31, 2013)

thinkpainting/nick said:


> Collage Pro knows how to price a job?? Yikes .. There is no set price none no none as far as sq ft . Your production rate and all your costs of doing business give you your sq ft rate not some industry rate out of thin air. Is there a standard sq ft rate No! Oh sure it's much easier and quicker to look at a job and just put someone else's sq ft rate
> Great book been around long time very simple explanation how to obtain sq ft pricing for your rate. Profit in the Painting Business. By Len Fife.


Collage Pro has a price per foot method of pricing. How do you price jobs, eyeball method?

How do you differentiate and justify the pricing of different size rooms as follows; 20x18.5, 16x16, 15x14, 10x10? 

No one is saying there is a standard sf rate. I just see a basis for pricing here. You should use common sense and adjust your sq rate to meet your requirements.


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## Painted-Bride (Jul 31, 2013)

thinkpainting/nick said:


> Is this from 1990"s ??? What about loss time ? You pay a guy for 8 hrs lucky to get 6.5 production from him or her. What about travel, staging, moving the shop, cleanup, setup, masking, etc etc...


Come up with your actual painting numbers by sq and lf., then adjust your numbers for setup / clean up etc, by adding a percentage that works for your business... 

Example: Actual painting: $1,500 plus "20% [your number]" (set up / clean up) = $300 - Total $1,800.


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## MIZZOU (Nov 18, 2012)

Hey Lynn, what's the square inch price for cake decorating? How about for a mural you do? Or do you talk to the customer, find out exactly what they want, and bid accordingly? Call it eye balling of you want but I call it proper estimating.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

MIZZOU said:


> Hey Lynn, what's the square inch price for cake decorating? How about for a mural you do? Or do you talk to the customer, find out exactly what they want, and bid accordingly? Call it eye balling of you want but I call it proper estimating.


You think this is really a cake maker? Your only going to get sucked into a NJ vortex by pursuing this thread...


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## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

Painted-Bride said:


> Come up with your actual painting numbers by sq and lf., then adjust your numbers for setup / clean up etc, by adding a percentage that works for your business...
> 
> Example: Actual painting: $1,500 plus "20% [your number]" (set up / clean up) = $300 - Total $1,800.


I've been reading blueprints and taking off jobs for many years . I know my rates and how to come up with a sq ft price for any and all painting we do. Tacking on 20% to your bid covers all your travel, loss time, masking, etc than good for you but way to low for me. College Pro to use them as a reference point for estimating is just ridiculous . As for guys who eyeball jobs and use man days for there estimating I've known many over the years who were very good at it. 

I've seen more than my fair share of painters go under since I started in the 70"s and 99% of the reason was not knowing there numbers or how to estimate. As for franchises like CP and the other CP sorry they come and go most times they go.


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## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

Painted-Bride said:


> Come up with your actual painting numbers by sq and lf., then adjust your numbers for setup / clean up etc, by adding a percentage that works for your business...
> 
> Example: Actual painting: $1,500 plus "20% [your number]" (set up / clean up) = $300 - Total $1,800.


Thanks I had no idea...


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## MIZZOU (Nov 18, 2012)

Paradigmzz said:


> You think this is really a cake maker? Your only going to get sucked into a NJ vortex by pursuing this thread...


I kicked my own a$$ as soon as I chimed in 

Could this thread be a good inclination of why we shouldn't discuss pricing???


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

And what about those 1" diameter holes in the wall? Or the 2000 staples their punk ass kid used to hang justin bieber posters?

What if there's oil paint previously on the walls? Horribly wavy corners?

You have to physically visit the jobsite and assess the job. Too many "game changers" out there.

Sqft is o.k for ballparking & new construction.


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## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

MIZZOU said:


> I kicked my own a$$ as soon as I chimed in
> 
> Could this thread be a good inclination of why we shouldn't discuss pricing???


Lmao. I kicked my own a$$ soon as I chimed in...


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## MIZZOU (Nov 18, 2012)

thinkpainting/nick said:


> Lmao. I kicked my own a$$ soon as I chimed in...


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

I don't know ....something wierd about talkin with a dude who's pretending to be a chic 


Seen stranger **** though


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## MIZZOU (Nov 18, 2012)

Ole34 said:


> I don't know ....something wierd about talkin with a dude who's pretending to be a chic
> 
> Seen stranger **** though


Catfishing?


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

reversed engineered Certa Pro numbers....


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## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

MIZZOU said:


> Video Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjFHehmKN5A&feature=youtube_gdata_player


Forgot about that movie funny as he$$.... I'm kicking my own a$$.


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## VicSand (Jul 12, 2021)

Painted-Bride said:


> Add 8.50% for inflation and you will be spot on...
> 
> I am not the publisher..... soooooo..... DON"T SHOOT THE MESSENGER!
> 
> :blink:


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## VicSand (Jul 12, 2021)

what does it mean to be labeled banned and how did you get there-ilike it


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

VicSand said:


> what does it mean to be labeled banned and how did you get there-ilike it


I could make that happen if you want, though I doubt you'd like it.


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