# Bleach does not kill mold!!



## mjd (Feb 3, 2013)

Time after time I hear more so called painters recommend to homeowners, that they can kill mold and mildew with bleach!! Does anyone else have to reeducate homeowners?


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## Northwest_painter (Jan 27, 2012)

Yes and No your right and wrong. Here is why. I will post a link that says it best.
http://www.spore-tech.com/viewcategory.asp?idcategory=78


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

Ammonium chloride is your friend! Used in hospitals (they call the product quats- as in quatenary ammonium compounds. They work really well.


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## Stonehampaintdept (Jan 10, 2013)

Northwest_painter said:


> Yes and No your right and wrong. Here is why. I will post a link that says it best.
> http://www.spore-tech.com/viewcategory.asp?idcategory=78


That was probably the best write up I've seen.


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## pacificpainters.com (May 5, 2011)

Interesting link Northwest. the industry standards in Australia AS2311 still state sodium _hypochlorite_ as a suitable solution.

I have heard before that sodium hypocholrite is not suitable, but the article you just showed us explains it very nicely. 

Thank you very much for the link.

Here in the Pacific most of the mould is in bathrooms on cement rendered walls. So the following statement from that article I think could apply here: "chlorine bleach solution_ IS_ an effective sanitizing product that kills mold on _*hard non porous *_surfaces and neutralizes indoor mold allergens that trigger allergies."


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## Northwest_painter (Jan 27, 2012)

kdpaint said:


> Ammonium chloride is your friend! Used in hospitals (they call the product quats- as in quatenary ammonium compounds. They work really well.


that is for use only on non porus hard surfaces not sheet rock or wood.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

With moldy wallboard, the best solution is to cut it out, since most of it seems to develop on the back side and infiltrate inward.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

Northwest_painter said:


> that is for use only on non porus hard surfaces not sheet rock or wood.


This is somewhat true... but I would say that the vast majority of mold/mildew clean-up is not over bare wood, or uncoated drywall. Ammonium Chloride, imo, does seem to be more effective on sealed substrates than bleach. I have also used it on exterior bare wood, clapboards, sills, etc, with good results.
All that said, like with bacteria, most of the time you are just killing the majority of the organism, and both chemicals work pretty well for painters. I don't do true mold remediation, so I don't worry about what will kill 100% of the organism.


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## Roof Cleaning (Jun 29, 2011)

Ironically, we are having our kitchen gutted for new tile, cabinates counters etc. They found some mold from a pipe leak and being a roof cleaner I asked them what they use to kill it.

They cut it out just like TJ said and then sprayed non bleach detergent and ran a air scrubber machine for 48 hours. He said they never use bleach in mold remediation. 

nice read


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## mjd (Feb 3, 2013)

I use liquid chlorine and a mild detergent for exterior applications. Seems to take care of mildew, mold and cleans very nicely!!


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

This subject has been covered in great detail in previous posts, with many different viewpoints. My take on it is that we are not working in a lab, or in a situation where 100% has to be killed, and there are at least 2 chemicals that work well enough for painters to use 98% of the time. If you are getting into lots of mold, be careful, or better yet, don't, as after a certain point, remediation is necessary, and painters don't do that. At least this painter doesn't.:jester:


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## Repaintpro (Oct 2, 2012)

I have used white vinegar on mould for quite a few years now.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

mjd said:


> Time after time I hear more so called painters recommend to homeowners, that they can kill mold and mildew with bleach!! Does anyone else have to reeducate homeowners?





mjd said:


> I use liquid chlorine and a mild detergent for exterior applications. Seems to take care of mildew, mold and cleans very nicely!!


Wheres Waldo?

What up a.j. 

keep trollin ya rocker you...


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

oh no, is it really the sweaty rocker from the city of brotherly love? Say it aint so....


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## Ultimate (Mar 20, 2011)

OSHA seems to be better at writing than spore-tech imo, whereas they are at least better able to educate the general public in lay mans terms if you will, and give better specificity as to the circumstances and areas in which using sodium hypochlorite is considered ineffective. Anyone with enough understanding to make sense of the first link should probably be able to just as well understand this one from OSHA themselves, whom spore tech is banking on for building confidence in their word. http://www.osha.gov/Publications/OSHA-FS-3619.pdf 

Keeps ya sharp if nothing else. 

*Homeowners*, any painters or exterior house washing companies using properly diluted sodium hypochlorite or bleach and properly rinsing in preparation for painting or removal of mold, mildew or any other fungi ruining the appearance of and integrity of your home's exterior surfaces are doing the right thing. Please do not be confused by any misuse of good information.


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## cjohnson (Feb 9, 2013)

A came across a solution by accident. I wasn't getting good results removing mold with a bleach and water mix. It was tough as hell to remove and deeply engrained in the wood surfaces.

But it seem mold really loves to be doused with water. Lots of water. Soak then let sit. Let the mold enjoy its nice water bath for about 10 minutes. While the unsuspecting mold loosens its grip relaxing in the shade chilling, sipping on the water... douse or spray with the bleach/water solution. Rolls of the brick and wood siding like butter. No scrubbing. No fuss.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

HouseOfColor said:


> OSHA seems to be better at writing than spore-tech imo, whereas they are at least better able to educate the general public in lay mans terms if you will, and give better specificity as to the circumstances and areas in which using sodium hypochlorite is considered ineffective. Anyone with enough understanding to make sense of the first link should probably be able to just as well understand this one from OSHA themselves, whom spore tech is banking on for building confidence in their word. http://www.osha.gov/Publications/OSHA-FS-3619.pdf
> 
> Keeps ya sharp if nothing else.
> 
> Homeowners, any painters or exterior house washing companies using properly diluted sodium hypochlorite or bleach and properly rinsing in preparation for painting or removal of mold, mildew or any other fungi ruining the appearance of and integrity of your home's exterior surfaces are doing the right thing. Please do not be confused by any misuse of good information.


Spore tech has an interest in slightly misleading the public for profit. OSHA doesn't. Seems like OSHA concurs with general experience that bleach works well for removing mildew from non porous and semi porous surfaces. I've always been amazed at how well Jomax and bleach work at removing even massive amounts of mildew. I did learn the hard way that if you are using a pump sprayer you better have really good gloves. Bleach for extended periods of time is really bad stuff on your skin!


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## workin'man (Jan 18, 2013)

Literally bleach/chlorine is the most dangerous product I use.
I had a supervisor that once told me his lungs were clogged with severe build up.
He said that the bleach mixture literally crystallized in his lungs and that gave him heart troubles... two years later at the age of 56 died of a heart attack. He told me it was the bleach.
I still use liquid chlorine in an injector. I use a full pofessional rain suit with hood and chlorine resperator cartridges and gloves.
It will do much much more than dry your skin. If there was a comparable less toxic cleaner that kills micro organisms I would switch. But does anything work as good or even close?


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## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

I have always used javex on mold & mildew but ALWAYS explain to the HO that the problem causing the mold has to be fixed to get rid of the problem .:yes:


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Damon T said:


> Spore tech has an interest in slightly misleading the public for profit. OSHA doesn't. Seems like OSHA concurs with general experience that bleach works well for removing mildew from non porous and semi porous surfaces. I've always been amazed at how well Jomax and bleach work at removing even massive amounts of mildew. I did learn the hard way that if you are using a pump sprayer you better have really good gloves. Bleach for extended periods of time is really bad stuff on your skin!


I also looked at the CDC [Center for Disease Control] web site, and they recommended bleach for killing mold spores. The article referenced the clean up during Katrina.


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## Roof Cleaning (Jun 29, 2011)

I have been exposed to massive amounts of bleach over the last ten years.
Although I have been a ground man for half of it, I can say 100% sure that I have experienced ZERO neg health side effects from the bleach. (knock knock)

Non of the guys that have sprayed for me have had any probs except for the roof cat. He had a fungus on his foot prior to working with us that TSP would make itch.

We spray over 1500 gallons (raw bleach prior to mixing) easily per month. I am a very healthy 36 years old into fitness tho, I take care of myself.


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## workin'man (Jan 18, 2013)

Roof Cleaning said:


> I have been exposed to massive amounts of bleach over the last ten years.
> Although I have been a ground man for half of it, I can say 100% sure that I have experienced ZERO neg health side effects from the bleach. (knock knock)
> 
> Non of the guys that have sprayed for me have had any probs except for the roof cat. He had a fungus on his foot prior to working with us that TSP would make itch.
> ...


I like to hear this!!!! But you are a pro that takes his health seriously, like myself. It can and has killed people. 
I hired a guy illeagal immigrant from the competition. He said they use those real cheap paper masks shooting raw bleach through pump sprayers in thier clothes. He was more concerned about his clothing than his health. Big bruise like marks on both sides of his stomach. I tried to explain the bleach went into you bloodsteam through your organs and most likely caused scar tissue in his kidneys. You should talk about what you do for safetey because we need to educate or promote a proper attitude when working with chemicles.
Maybe just maybe our professional attitude will create one person to think..

Try dipping a rag in raw bleach leave it in the sun....


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## Amish Elecvtrician (Jul 3, 2011)

When folks talk about 'killing mold,' they are missing the point.

Imagine you could kill / remove ALL the mold from a house. Every spore. Now, is the problem solved? 

Nope. You'll be right back where you started, in six months. 

One simply has to change the circumstances that let mold grow in the first place. Where moisture has a chance to sit, you will have mold. It's that simple.

Where moisture can drain and evaporate, you will not have mold. Mold control is simply moisture control. You have to fix the underlying cause first.


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

workin'man said:


> I like to hear this!!!! But you are a pro that takes his health seriously, like myself. It can and has killed people.
> I hired a guy illeagal immigrant from the competition. He said they use those real cheap paper masks shooting raw bleach through pump sprayers in thier clothes. He was more concerned about his clothing than his health. Big bruise like marks on both sides of his stomach. I tried to explain the bleach went into you bloodsteam through your organs and most likely caused scar tissue in his kidneys. You should talk about what you do for safetey because we need to educate or promote a proper attitude when working with chemicles.
> Maybe just maybe our professional attitude will create one person to think..
> 
> Try dipping a rag in raw bleach leave it in the sun....


Try spraying a 5% solution on hot asphalt shingles without a respirator. I'm the moron on the flip side of the coin. I opted for not wearing a respirator and now whenever I am even near bleach, I feel it. Its the same for even latex paint. It won't anyone painting rooms every few years with a roller but if you spray day in and day out, you'd better be wearing PPE or you will regret it later.


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## workin'man (Jan 18, 2013)

Amish Elecvtrician said:


> When folks talk about 'killing mold,' they are missing the point.
> 
> Imagine you could kill / remove ALL the mold from a house. Every spore. Now, is the problem solved?
> 
> ...


How do you stop relative humity, and those mold spores that float in the air!
I'll try a certified letter to mother nature... does any one have her address?


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## Amish Elecvtrician (Jul 3, 2011)

Cute, cute. Telling someone on the Mississippi delta about humidity ... 

One word: Ventillation. Should be considered in the construction details. If it isn't, you WILL have mold. 

That's why attics and crawl spaces have vents. Most places are only built 'to code' though, so there won't be enough. Ventillation is another reason to make a 'rain screen' when you put up siding. 

Recently saw a gutted kitchen. Where was the mold? Under the cabinet bottoms and over the top cabinets. In the only places that didn't have plenty of air flow.

Removed a bathtub recently. Where was the rot? Only along the front, were water pooled.


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## Tonyg (Dec 9, 2007)

Consan Triple Action 20 works on Mold. After the hurricanes and flooding in TX and LA, they were selling it by the pallet load. Homeowner's couldn't get occupancy permits if they used bleach. 

I tried it a few years back looking for something that would remove/kill mildew without 'bleaching' the wood. It was for a very expensive house with cedar shakes and the HO said it took him 12 years before it looked like he wanted it (gray and aged) and wanted it cleaned without changing the color. Didn't work but I still use it in and in my proposals as "sodium hypochlorite an added mildewcide Triple Action 20" rather than just bleach. Helps with the closing ratio and justification for getting a higher price. It's concentrated and only takes like 2-4 oz per 5 gallons of DS mix.

http://brandtconsolidated.com/Portals/0/PDFs/CONSAN-TRIFOLD-2007.pdf


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## jimbo3636 (Dec 27, 2011)

*Mold & spores*

If bleach (great for non-porous) is not the answer for porous surfaces, then what is the best solution for remediation in porous surfaces?




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## Stonehampaintdept (Jan 10, 2013)

One thing noone hit on was a product called Wet & Forget. This thread has alot of good information and alot of viewpoints which are all valid to some or all degrees in different applications. This is a homeowner driven product on retail shelves but very effective. You will not see results that day and requires multiple applications for "dirtier" areas. It's a PH neutral product and it's my understanding Sea World uses it on all their exterior surfaces in close proximity to tanks.
Shockwave and Moldex are my choices generally, they are an ammonium chloride based product use extensively in disaster remediation.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

This whole thread is based on a very vague concept. What molds are we talking about? Not all molds are created equal. What surfaces are we treating? Are you comparing the laboratory procedure that is using equal 0.0015% ammonium chloride vs. 0.0015% sodium hyporchlorite? I'd agree, but how is that relevant to me when I am using depending on the situation, 1%, 3%, 6% solutions of bleach along with detergents, detergent 'builders', etc?


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