# New Graco Fine Finish Tip



## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Got my hands on a new low pressure fine finish tip (310) Friday so going to give it a try today in spraying an interior door. Will let you know what I think later.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Had pressure set to about half of what I normally use when using a fine finish 310 tip and laid down a nice even coat. 

I do think this will allow for easier on site spaying of trim and doors due to the lower pressure not creating as much overspray fog in the air. The amount of masking necessary will be more like using an HVLP on site compared to a typical airless experience.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

I wonder how much lower I can go with these on my AAA. Currently I spray at around 900psi with the normal FF tip. Gotta get my hands on these. 

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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Mine cost me $36 through my SW store. Not sure what regular retail is.


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

RH said:


> Had pressure set to about half of what I normally use when using a fine finish 310 tip and laid down a nice even coat.
> 
> I do think this will allow for easier on site spaying of trim and doors due to the lower pressure not creating as much overspray fog in the air. The amount of masking necessary will be more like using an HVLP on site compared to a typical airless experience.


What product did you spray and what sprayer, if you don't mind?


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

I was spraying Pro-Classic Acrylic enamel with some XIM latex extender added. Not my favorite product to spray these days, not even close really, but there was some left over from some trim work done about two years ago so didn't make sense getting something new for just one door. Have to guess this tip will work like a breeze when spraying Pro-Industrial Multi-Surface Acrylic or Kelly Moore's Dura-Poxi - my normal go to enamels.

Used a 395 airless.


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## Gracobucks (May 29, 2011)

Tried our FFLP tip today and it dripped like crazy out of the housing. Luckily today Dulux had a free lunch for valentine's day and a Graco rep was there showing off the tips. We told him about our problem and it turns out that you have to change the seat that comes with the tip or else it will leak. I'll give you guys another update when I try it out again.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Gracobucks said:


> Tried our FFLP tip today and it dripped like crazy out of the housing. Luckily today Dulux had a free lunch for valentine's day and a Graco rep was there showing off the tips. We told him about our problem and it turns out that you have to change the seat that comes with the tip or else it will leak. I'll give you guys another update when I try it out again.


Didn't get any dripping but there was a bit more spitting than I'm used to. Didn't affect the end look of the door but was a bit frustrating. I wrote it off to maybe the product and messing around with the pressure to see different effects.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Not much of a fan of these types of pics because they really don't show all that much (but it looks great in real life) - just posting to show that the results with the new tip are consistent to what I would expect to get with a regular fine finish 310. Just less fogging, presssure issues, and overspray with the new one.

Door was raw birch primed with a coat of SW exterior oil base primer, sanded with 320, and two coats of Pro-Classic Acrylic Satin Enamel thinned with some XIM latex extender. Again, not my go to top coat enamel these days but it came out fine nevertheless. Can see some wood grain, but hey, it's a real wood door.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

I have had bad luck with 310 leaking. I might have to try a 410.

Looks good Dan.


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## Jerr (Feb 15, 2017)

I was looking at those today. Need to give them a try


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## Delta Painting (Apr 27, 2010)

I need some of these tips I have a nice job to give them a good run. 

Door looks good.


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## PNW Painter (Sep 5, 2013)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> I have had bad luck with 310 leaking. I might have to try a 410.
> 
> Looks good Dan.




Gracobucks said above that if you don't put the seat that comes with the fflp tip in housing that it will leak. I'm guessing that's probably your issue.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

PNW Painter said:


> Gracobucks said above that if you don't put the seat that comes with the fflp tip in housing that it will leak. I'm guessing that's probably your issue.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Mentioned that to another guy in town that is also testing the new tip. He said he didn't replace the seat and had no issues with it dripping. Go figure.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I did not use the seal that came with the FFLP tip either. Gun already had one in and stuck with it.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

PNW Painter said:


> Gracobucks said above that if you don't put the seat that comes with the fflp tip in housing that it will leak. I'm guessing that's probably your issue.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No. It was only 310's. 210's and 410's will not leak.


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## Eagle Cap Painter (Nov 14, 2016)

I'm getting ready to prime a bunch of newly installed MDF trim and pine jambs with PPG Seal Grip, so I picked up a 310 today and am wondering how much I should thin it, if at all. Is it even worth spraying the primer through the FF tip when it's going to be sanded?


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Eagle Cap Painter said:


> I'm getting ready to prime a bunch of newly installed MDF trim and pine jambs with PPG Seal Grip, so I picked up a 310 today and am wondering how much I should thin it, if at all. Is it even worth spraying the primer through the FF tip when it's going to be sanded?


Good point. I likely wouldn't do it intentionally, but if I had a new FFLP tip in place and ready to go I would probably just use it anyway.

Just to be clear, you got one of the new FF "LP" 310 tips - right? Not a regular FF310?


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## Eagle Cap Painter (Nov 14, 2016)

Correct. Local paint store owner stocked them after I told him some things people here had said, so I felt obligated to buy one.

E: Thoughts on thinning the primer? I think I'll test drive with that before topcoating.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Eagle Cap Painter said:


> Correct. Local paint store owner stocked them after I told him some things people here had said, so I felt obligated to buy one.
> 
> E: Thoughts on thinning the primer? I think I'll test drive with that before topcoating.


I don't since I don't care about any leveling and like you said, it's going to be sanded anyway. Plus, an airless can push through anything you want it to.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Glad to see this feedback on the low pressure tips.
@RH That door looks good, Dan. I thought I'd spotted a major blemish when I enlarged the picture, but turns out it's on my screen. That's what ya get with grandkids and a touch-screen computer. Little chocolate eating heathens. :biggrin:


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

LOL - Thanks slinger... glad it was on your end and not mine!


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> I have had bad luck with 310 leaking. I might have to try a 410.
> 
> Looks good Dan.


The curved side of the seat goes toward the tip, the seal side to the gun. Hope this helps. :devil3:

How ya been, ReNt?


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

slinger58 said:


> The curved side of the seat goes toward the tip, the seal side to the gun. Hope this helps. :devil3:
> 
> How ya been, ReNt?


Now that's funny right there. 

Maybe that's why I always need a mallet to get them in... hmmmm...


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

My fflp was a 310 as well.


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## MurphysPaint (Nov 23, 2015)

My SW Rep was telling me you need to have a regulator at your gun in order to ensure the correct PSI for these tips. Anyone else heard anything like that?


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

MurphysPaint said:


> My SW Rep was telling me you need to have a regulator at your gun in order to ensure the correct PSI for these tips. Anyone else heard anything like that?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not until now.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

MurphysPaint said:


> My SW Rep was telling me you need to have a regulator at your gun in order to ensure the correct PSI for these tips. Anyone else heard anything like that?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Most SW Reps don't know crap.

I had one that told me the reason Emerald didn't hide well was because I used a microfiber roller cover. He said I needed to use a polyester roller cover.

He might have been drunk, high or something. I will never use a polyester cover ever again.


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## Gracobucks (May 29, 2011)

Used a new FFLP tip for spraying a door this morning. Changed the seat and tried it out. Stupid thing spit like crazy. I threw in a blue tip with the FFLP seat and finished the first coat on the door. When I tried showing My PPG paint rep the problem I was having the FFLP tip, the tip was spraying fine with no spits or lines. I was spraying breakthrough with a 312 FFLP tip with a Graco 495 and had the pressure around 1/3 of the way up. Wasn't much over spray and the paint laid down nice. I would defiantly buy this tips again. Will post pic of the door tomorrow when its done. 

I have a feeling that the blue tips pushed the seat into position stopping the spits. They may be a bit bigger. Going to measure them to find out.

No regulator was needed


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## Gracobucks (May 29, 2011)

PNW Painter said:


> Gracobucks said above that if you don't put the seat that comes with the fflp tip in housing that it will leak. I'm guessing that's probably your issue.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The seats are definitely different.


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## Eagle Cap Painter (Nov 14, 2016)

Would it be worth gently lubricating the seat to improve the seal and/or using a new tip housing?


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## Gracobucks (May 29, 2011)

Eagle Cap Painter said:


> Would it be worth gently lubricating the seat to improve the seal and/or using a new tip housing?


May help. I will try it next new tip


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Good to know it wasn't just me having the spitting issues - I guess.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

slinger58 said:


> The curved side of the seat goes toward the tip, the seal side to the gun. Hope this helps. :devil3:


 cash me ousside how bow dah


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## Jerr (Feb 15, 2017)

I want to try one of these tips. Might pick one up tomorrow and try it in my finishpro


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Just a quick update - went and sprayed a fireplace mantle this morning. Shooting unthinned Kelly Moore Dura-Poxi Acrylic Enamel with the 310 FFLP tip. Whereas I had trouble with it spitting a bit on my first try a week or so ago (shooting Pro-Classic Acrylic), this time I turned up the pressure more and that seemed to eliminate the problem. Had the pressure knob at about two thirds up - at about 1:00 on the dial (sorry, but no guage on my 395). 

Did a really nice job with very little overspray or fog in the area. Was able to get a wet look but with no runs or sags on the vertical surfaces. Going back to do a second coat in an hour or so and will try to snag some pics.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I used a 518 fflp tip do paint an exposed basement ceiling with black acrylic dryfall. Pressure was about 1/3 of the way up the dial.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

DeanV said:


> I used a 518 fflp tip do paint an exposed basement ceiling with black acrylic dryfall. Pressure was about 1/3 of the way up the dial.


And no problims with it spitting?


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Nope. Although, spraying a old basement ceiling black I would not be able to see it if it did. I might try priming out a basement with it tomorrow.


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

My first experience with a fflp 310 hasn't been as good as I had hoped. 
I have been making samples for an upcoming cabinet project. The paint is Breakthrough gloss in a medium grey, 250 VOC version. I did the first color with a 410 FF and all was good. They wanted another color and by that time the 310 fflp had arrived so I tried it out. It did operate lower then typical pressure as expected but the issue was the finish. While the regular FF looked great the FFLP gave a "pixelated" finish. As opposed to a consistent gloss it had a shimmer almost like a metallic finish. All prep and application were the same with a nice wet coat applied to each. They looked the same wet but dry different. So I shot 2 more doors one with each tip as before. Same thing happened. It actually has a interesting look but it's not right.

Is it possible that it is shearing the product and breaking the resins too fine?

Maybe they won't be compatible with certain finishes or sheens. I'm going to try Advance, Breakthrough satin and some others as I have time.

I'll try to get some pics up. Not sure it'll show it well though.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

*Tip Shear*



PRC said:


> My first experience with a fflp 310 hasn't been as good as I had hoped.
> I have been making samples for an upcoming cabinet project. The paint is Breakthrough gloss in a medium grey, 250 VOC version. I did the first color with a 410 FF and all was good. They wanted another color and by that time the 310 fflp had arrived so I tried it out. It did operate lower then typical pressure as expected but the issue was the finish. While the regular FF looked great the FFLP gave a "pixelated" finish. As opposed to a consistent gloss it had a shimmer almost like a metallic finish. All prep and application were the same with a nice wet coat applied to each. They looked the same wet but dry different. So I shot 2 more doors one with each tip as before. Same thing happened. It actually has a interesting look but it's not right.
> 
> _Is it possible that it is shearing the product and breaking the resins too fine?_
> ...


That's a great question regarding tip shear, and it's something I tried to do a lot of research on before even starting this thread. I wanted to find out whether or not these new tips would/could over-atomize paint, thus increasing the chance of tip shear.

The conclusion I've come to, (not to be confused with fact), is the new FFLP tips should NOT increase chances of tip shear, unless you're trying to spray a product at the same pressure setting as the original FF tips. 

From my limited understanding, paints containing styrene polymers are really prone to tip shear, (Pro-Classic being one of the most famous/infamous). 

But to rule out the new FFLP tips causing tip shear, it should be easy. Just take your original FF tip, spray a sample board, then spray some paint in a bucket. Once your sample board is dry, brush a portion of the paint on the sample board from the paint you sprayed in the bucket. Now, spray some more paint in a different bucket with your new FFLP tip, then brush some of that paint right next to your other brushed portion from the regular FF tip. Once all of that is dry, compare the sheen of the 2 brushed portions, (angular sheen). If the brushed portion of the new FFLP tip appears to be duller in sheen than the brushed portion applied from the original FF tips, you'd have good cause to suspect tip shear, since a dulling of the sheen is one of the easiest ways to identify tip shear. For a more controlled test, start with new tips with the same size orifice.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

I've never heard the term 'tip shear' before. Can someone explain? I tried to google it with no luck.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

*Paint Talk Google Search*



Woodco said:


> I've never heard the term 'tip shear' before. Can someone explain? I tried to google it with no luck.


Go up to to the search button on top of this page, scroll down to the bottom where it says, "Google Search", and put in the term, "Tip Shear". That's always your best bet for all things search related. Although you'll be temporarily redirected to Google search results, it'll pull up all posts from Paint Talk where the phrased was used.


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## Eagle Cap Painter (Nov 14, 2016)

Someone please tell me how wrong I am here since I know almost nothing about fluid dynamics, but I assume they mean that the paint is not moving uniformly through the tip because of some kind of imbalance of pressure and friction "deforming" the fluid behind the tip. I'd imagine that given the right circumstances, you could create a vortex in the gun/line and cause the particles to be unevenly distributed as well (like heavier sediments in a river getting stuck in the bends).


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

I'm liking this supposed switch less and less the more I am hearing..... I don't like it, my 410, or 310 FF work just fine. I don't want to switch. (graco, hint hint) Give us a choice of getting the existing tips in the future....


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> That's a great question regarding tip shear, and it's something I tried to do a lot of research on before even starting this thread. I wanted to find out whether or not these new tips would/could over-atomize paint, thus increasing the chance of tip shear.
> 
> The conclusion I've come to, (not to be confused with fact), is the new FFLP tips should NOT increase chances of tip shear, unless you're trying to spray a product at the same pressure setting as the original FF tips.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info stelz. If I try your test I'll post the results.


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

ridesarize said:


> I'm liking this supposed switch less and less the more I am hearing..... I don't like it, my 410, or 310 FF work just fine. I don't want to switch. (graco, hint hint) Give us a choice of getting the existing tips in the future....


I didn't know they were deleting the original line. Time to stock up.


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## Gracobucks (May 29, 2011)

ridesarize said:


> I'm liking this supposed switch less and less the more I am hearing..... I don't like it, my 410, or 310 FF work just fine. I don't want to switch. (graco, hint hint) Give us a choice of getting the existing tips in the future....


I heard a rumor that Titan is making a LP tip as well. Maybe there will be less problems with them.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Not sure there is really a problem with the new ones. As I said, had some issues my first time out as a result of trying to determine what pressure setting works well. Second time around, it worked beautifully. 

Another thing I noticed and liked about the FFLP was being able to easily achieve an even "wet" look on vertical surfaces without any runs or sags. And I didn't do a tack coat. So, combining that with less overspray and fogging and this tip seems to be a nice little advance in FF spraying.

Sure, it may take a little practice for you to dial it in pressure wise with your go to product(s) but I don't think that is any reason to write it off. I mean if *I* can get it right on my second attempt then any of you should be able to get this tip to work well for you too.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Mantle I just did using the new FFLP tip. It was oak stained with a medium dark "golden oak" color (same as the windows off to the sides) and clear coated.

Primed with SW's Exterior Oil Based Primer and then two topcoats of Kelly Moore Dura-Poxi Satin Acrylic Enamel. Not once did I experience any spitting or have any runs or sags in spite of getting a nice wet look on all the surfaces - even the vertical ones - while spraying. Yes, the grain is still visable but the owners said they were fine with that - even preferred it.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Another thing that bears mentioning; often if you try to spray a project with numerous profiles and nooks and crannies such as this mantle possesses, you end up overloading the nearby flat areas with spray at the same time. Didn't experience any of that while using this tip. Nice control allowing for the even application of paint everywhere with no excessive build up which often leads to runs or sags.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I primed out about a 1,000 sq. ft. basement with UltraSpec primer today. Ran through 10 gallons. The seal on my extension wand was bad, so just used the 518 FFLP directly on the gun. I was getting build up on the tip guard that I had to keep wiping off and would lead to drips. First time I have had the problem, not sure what. Pressure on the Graco 395 was around the 11:00 mark.

Overspray was not bad. Since I did not have an extension wand on the gun, I was misted but not has bad as I expected. Contact lenses were not very gritty feeling. Surprising since I shot the ceilings as well.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

DeanV said:


> I primed out about a 1,000 sq. ft. basement with UltraSpec primer today. Ran through 10 gallons. The seal on my extension wand was bad, so just used the 518 FFLP directly on the gun. I was getting build up on the tip guard that I had to keep wiping off and would lead to drips. First time I have had the problem, not sure what. Pressure on the Graco 395 was around the 11:00 mark.
> 
> Overspray was not bad. Since I did not have an extension wand on the gun, I was misted but not has bad as I expected. Contact lenses were not very gritty feeling. Surprising since I shot the ceilings as well.


I did the mantle with my 395 pressure at about 1:30 while using a 310 FFLP.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

RH said:


> I did the mantle with my 395 pressure at about 1:30 while using a 310 FFLP.




Not sure how the time of day you sprayed the mantle comes into play, but I'll make a note of it.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

slinger58 said:


> Not sure how the time of day you sprayed the mantle comes into play, but I'll make a note of it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well, unlike fauxlynn, I don't have any self imposed restrictions as to when I start drinking during the day. :vs_cocktail:


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## canopainting (Feb 12, 2013)

So they are going to phase out the current Graco FF? What is the selling [point of the new tips, are they supposed to use less paint? If its not broke why fix it ?


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## PNW Painter (Sep 5, 2013)

The manager at my local Rodda said the current FF tips will be discontinued and replaced with the FFLP tips. 


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