# new(ish) to cabinets



## PApaints (May 17, 2010)

We are thinking about devoting some shop space and one employee to cabinet refinishing. We've painted a fairly good amount of cabinets in the past, but are considering trying to up our game a bit. We tend to paint the cabinets on site in a customer's house and bring the doors back to our shop to paint, then return & reinstall them. 

I'm not sure what all paints we've used in the past... I believe we've used some Proclassic (probably latex & oil...but just guessing). We used insl-x cabinet coat on the last set that I know of and my guys really liked it. 

We're also thinking we may team up with a friend who owns a cabinet company and buy old good quality cabinets from him when he builds new ones...then paint & resell. We have more flexibility in coatings (I would think) with the in shop stuff than we do with the field application jobs. 

I'm considering a CV for shop spray...but not sure about taking it out for field application. I'm not a fine finishes guy...so this really isn't my game. Any thoughts or advice from people who are _REALLY GOOD AND HIGHLY EXPERIENCED / KNOWLEDGEABLE_ would be welcomed and appreciated. 

We're a fairly large shop...we have any spray equipment we could need.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

pghsteve said:


> We are thinking about devoting some shop space and one employee to cabinet refinishing. We've painted a fairly good amount of cabinets in the past, but are considering trying to up our game a bit. We tend to paint the cabinets on site in a customer's house and bring the doors back to our shop to paint, then return & reinstall them.
> 
> I'm not sure what all paints we've used in the past... I believe we've used some Proclassic (probably latex & oil...but just guessing). We used insl-x cabinet coat on the last set that I know of and my guys really liked it.
> 
> ...


I still use satin impervo oil for most of my own projects. Oil has the look, feel, and application properties waterborne just can't replicate. hollandlac is really something else if you ever get a chance to use it.


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## PApaints (May 17, 2010)

Yeah.... that would make sense to me - and moreso it would be more durable. The slow dry time stinks a little (we're using shop floor space, not a paint booth...yet). 

I looked up Hollandlac. We have a small retailer not too far from us - half hour or so. $155/gal... that's pretty steep. What makes it different than ProClassic Alkyd or any other high end oil product? I'm certainly willing to try it...just curios what's driving that insanely high price. From the name, I expected that to be a lacquer product, surprised to see it's an oil.

What do you do for prep on your cabinets? do you fill the grain, and if so, how & with what? What primer do you use when finishing with oil?


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

I'm not the guy with the most experience (residential re-paints). There are cabinet exclusive guys on here, if they chime in. Seems like a lot of the high-end cabinet guys want to use 2K products, or products that are otherwise more cabinet-specific.

But I will say this (in regards to your previous post):
*The PC Acrylic Alkyd (Hybrid) is far better than the regular Pro Classic* (which you mentioned in your post). I would not even consider latex PC, it does not spray well.

The Acrylic Alkyd sprays well, and dries like oil, and water clean-up. It has a very nice look and feel when dry. It brushes and rolls well also (cab. boxes), leaving negligible brush marks. Worth a try.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

pghsteve said:


> Yeah.... that would make sense to me - and moreso it would be more durable. The slow dry time stinks a little (we're using shop floor space, not a paint booth...yet).
> 
> I looked up Hollandlac. We have a small retailer not too far from us - half hour or so. $155/gal... that's pretty steep. What makes it different than ProClassic Alkyd or any other high end oil product? I'm certainly willing to try it...just curios what's driving that insanely high price. From the name, I expected that to be a lacquer product, surprised to see it's an oil.
> 
> What do you do for prep on your cabinets? do you fill the grain, and if so, how & with what? What primer do you use when finishing with oil?


Impervo we use benjaminmoore 217 undercoater or a vinyl sealer Grainfilling: goodfilla mixed sometimes with water and sometimes a lacquer sealer.

Fine paints of europe... Well its just something you have to see for your self. Its unlike any other product *system *(you need to use their prep products with hollandlac) you've ever seen. Yes the cost/gallon is high but you'll use 50% less materials, their pigment system consists of ultra finely ground pigments suspended in oil. Every color covers like a stock color where as most other tint systems use universal or industrial tints.
Hollandlac is the only product I know that you can brush out a wall and make it look like an automotive finish. BM's got some good products but advance cannot do this


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Impervo we use benjaminmoore 217 undercoater or a vinyl sealer Grainfilling: goodfilla mixed sometimes with water and sometimes a lacquer sealer.
> 
> Fine paints of europe... Well its just something you have to see for your self. Its unlike any other product *system *(you need to use their prep products with hollandlac) you've ever seen. Yes the cost/gallon is high but you'll use 50% less materials, their pigment system consists of ultra finely ground pigments suspended in oil. Every color covers like a stock color where as most other tint systems use universal or industrial tints.
> Hollandlac is the only product I know that you can brush out a wall and make it look like an automotive finish. BM's got some good products but advance cannot do this
> View attachment 111832


Is that hollandlac an oil? Looks nice. That green must be a high gloss..


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Is that hollandlac an oil? Looks nice. That green must be a high gloss..


Yes its oil urethane alkyd. high gloss 98+ sheen. The green pictured above is a brushed sample


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

That green is spiffy!


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

A couple water-based products you could spray in customers homes are PPG breakthrough and Ultra spec scuff X. I've used breakthrough a couple times and it's probably the best water-based cabinet coating, but it's too runny and was just having too hard a time with my airless. If I had a AAA I would probably still use it. Been using scuff-x though, it works great too.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

fromthenorthwest said:


> A couple water-based products you could spray in customers homes are PPG breakthrough and Ultra spec scuff X. I've used breakthrough a couple times and it's probably the best water-based cabinet coating, but it's too runny and was just having too hard a time with my airless. If I had a AAA I would probably still use it. Been using scuff-x though, it works great too.


Wow, you have the whole ceiling taped up? How's the ScuffX holding up btw?


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

fromthenorthwest said:


> A couple water-based products you could spray in customers homes are PPG breakthrough and Ultra spec scuff X. I've used breakthrough a couple times and it's probably the best water-based cabinet coating, but it's too runny and was just having too hard a time with my airless. If I had a AAA I would probably still use it. Been using scuff-x though, it works great too.


looks great @fromthenorthwest ! Nice job on the prep.

(Just curious, is that a 12v or 20v impact gun pictured? Do you like it?)


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Wow, you have the whole ceiling taped up? How's the ScuffX holding up btw?


Yep we really go to town on the plastic, set up a zip wall too to contain the kitchen. Scuff-x is holding up great so far, I've only been using it for about a year and a half on cabinet jobs but so far no complaints.


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

Holland said:


> looks great @fromthenorthwest ! Nice job on the prep.
> 
> (Just curious, is that a 12v or 20v impact gun pictured? Do you like it?)


 Thanks! That's a 12v. I wanted a lighter one for working with cabinet doors all day and this is great. Also pretty strong if I need to drive some longer screws and don't have my 20v.


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## WildBill (Feb 13, 2021)

Take a hard look at MIlesi or Renner.


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## PApaints (May 17, 2010)

Holland said:


> looks great @fromthenorthwest ! Nice job on the prep.
> 
> (Just curious, is that a 12v or 20v impact gun pictured? Do you like it?)


That's what my PPG rep recommended too.... I always struggle to believe paint reps because I know how they're incentivized to push the high margin, new products. Breakthrough has been pushed on me for bollards, floors, wood trim.... it's the "magic" paint that they push for everything, which has made me trust it for nothing. I trust it more from people on here saying they've used it successfully.... so maybe we'll try it when a job calls for a latex.


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## PApaints (May 17, 2010)

WildBill said:


> Take a hard look at MIlesi or Renner.
> View attachment 111849
> View attachment 111850


I have never heard of either of the two... I assume those are regional mfg's somewhere? Those cabinets look great in the pics... nice work.


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## PApaints (May 17, 2010)

fromthenorthwest said:


> A couple water-based products you could spray in customers homes are PPG breakthrough and Ultra spec scuff X. I've used breakthrough a couple times and it's probably the best water-based cabinet coating, but it's too runny and was just having too hard a time with my airless. If I had a AAA I would probably still use it. Been using scuff-x though, it works great too.


We have an air assisted airless that we NEVER use... tried it a few times when we first got it and never felt like we were getting the result we thought it would produce. Maybe we need to tune it up and give it another try. When you spray with your airless, have you tried the Graco RAC X low pressure fine finish tips? They are pretty awesome, let you cut your pressure in half.

Why AAA or airless.... why not an HVLP?


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## PApaints (May 17, 2010)

WildBill said:


> MIlesi


So I went to my good friends at Google and looked up Milesi... interesting company. I saw this:









This is fairly off subject...but not totally. I find this healthy.wood wood finish interesting. I've tried looking up bacteria growth on wood before, for personal use.... plastic vs wood cutting boards in my kitchen... glass vs. wood fish cleaning table in my yard... stuff like that. For years fishermen have used wood cleaning tables (that somewhat disgustingly never get more than a hose off) and butchers use wood butcher blocks. I remember my grandparents in florida cleaning tables full of fish on public cleaning table at the docks in scorching hot sun. I've done the same in canada on wood cleaning tables that I know have never been cleaned in years of use. People don't seem to die left and right from it. The story is that wood naturally kills bacteria. If so... what's the point of this? Also - I've never really trusted that anyway... should all wood food prep surfaces be treated in this stuff? I don't expect anyone to really know an answer to this (unless someone can blow me away with their microbiology knowledge), I'm asking rhetorically I guess. But... I find this interesting.


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

pghsteve said:


> We have an air assisted airless that we NEVER use... tried it a few times when we first got it and never felt like we were getting the result we thought it would produce. Maybe we need to tune it up and give it another try. When you spray with your airless, have you tried the Graco RAC X low pressure fine finish tips? They are pretty awesome, let you cut your pressure in half.
> 
> Why AAA or airless.... why not an HVLP?


Yeah those RAC X tips are pretty sweet. I actually switched to Tritech on the advice of some folks on here and I think they're even a bit better than the Graco, seem to maintain a better fan pattern without tails.

As to the AAA that's good to know, maybe I should save my money and not buy one. I know repaint Florida on here uses the AAA with breakthrough and seems to get great results, so I figured maybe it was easier to lay down a smooth pattern without putting as much on there, similar to an HVLP.

Which brings me to why not HVLP? I was loaned a nice capspray 115 from a friend, and spent a couple afternoons trying to dial it in with a few different waterborne finishes. I got some good results, but I seemed to have more problems than success. I even ordered a #4 and #5 needle set, thinned down 10-20%, etc and was still having problems. Whether it was the machine clogging, or getting dry spray. Then there is holding the cup gun full of paint, and the fact that it does go a bit slower than an airless, especially when you're doing 40 or 50 doors. Long story short after 15 years with an airless and knowing I could get pretty good results with the experience i have on that machine, I decided to not go for the HVLP. Although I will say when it was dialed in it did lay down a beautiful finish!


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## PApaints (May 17, 2010)

fromthenorthwest said:


> Yeah those RAC X tips are pretty sweet. I actually switched to Tritech on the advice of some folks on here and I think they're even a bit better than the Graco, seem to maintain a better fan pattern without tails.
> 
> As to the AAA that's good to know, maybe I should save my money and not buy one. I know repaint Florida on here uses the AAA with breakthrough and seems to get great results, so I figured maybe it was easier to lay down a smooth pattern without putting as much on there, similar to an HVLP.
> 
> Which brings me to why not HVLP? I was loaned a nice capspray 115 from a friend, and spent a couple afternoons trying to dial it in with a few different waterborne finishes. I got some good results, but I seemed to have more problems than success. I even ordered a #4 and #5 needle set, thinned down 10-20%, etc and was still having problems. Whether it was the machine clogging, or getting dry spray. Then there is holding the cup gun full of paint, and the fact that it does go a bit slower than an airless, especially when you're doing 40 or 50 doors. Long story short after 15 years with an airless and knowing I could get pretty good results with the experience i have on that machine, I decided to not go for the HVLP. Although I will say when it was dialed in it did lay down a beautiful finish!


I'll check out the tritech tips and see if my guys like them. Honestly, never even heard of them. I live in SW & PPG world... if one of those two companies isn't selling it I generally don't know it exists. I like this website for that purpose. Also, I've never attended a PDCA (now PCA I guess). A buddy told me he goes or sends a couple of his guys and they feel like they get a lot out of it. I don't believe they've schedule a live annual meeting this year due to covid, but when they do I may start checking those out. 
I wouldn't say that the AAA doesn't do well - I just say we didn't do well with it. I'm not a good painter... I came from the mfg side before opening my company and am more a sales/mgt guy. I love the tech and coatings side of it...but just not where my value/experience lies. If I put that AAA in other hands with someone determined to figure it out, it may produce an entirely different result. I've also never made anything look good with an HVLP, but we probably own 5 or 6 of them and I have guys that make things look beautiful with them. When it comes to bulk doors... we do the same thing though. It's all airless FF tips. We're production guys mostly though... so we need a good finish, not a 10 million dollar home finish on most of what we do. If we push forward with this cabinet finishing thing - we have to figure out the details on how to do beautiful work that will be durable and give the customer what they're paying for. We have a lot of guys, so I don't mean to group everyone together. They all have different skill sets, all shine in some area or another. I have one foreman who's an artsy detail oriented guy with some history in furniture refinishing, and loves doing cabinets.... he's who we're going to have run this stuff if we do it... but I want to have input and help make sure we're doing the best that we can reasonably do. 

If you weren't so far away, I'd happily tell you you could borrow our AAA for a couple months and see if you like it. I bet if you asked, Graco would find a demo unit and let you borrow it for a couple weeks. Buy if you like it, return to demo stock if you don't.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

fromthenorthwest said:


> Yeah those RAC X tips are pretty sweet. I actually switched to Tritech on the advice of some folks on here and I think they're even a bit better than the Graco, seem to maintain a better fan pattern without tails.
> 
> As to the AAA that's good to know, maybe I should save my money and not buy one. I know repaint Florida on here uses the AAA with breakthrough and seems to get great results, so I figured maybe it was easier to lay down a smooth pattern without putting as much on there, similar to an HVLP.
> 
> Which brings me to why not HVLP? I was loaned a nice capspray 115 from a friend, and spent a couple afternoons trying to dial it in with a few different waterborne finishes. I got some good results, but I seemed to have more problems than success. I even ordered a #4 and #5 needle set, thinned down 10-20%, etc and was still having problems. Whether it was the machine clogging, or getting dry spray. Then there is holding the cup gun full of paint, and the fact that it does go a bit slower than an airless, especially when you're doing 40 or 50 doors. Long story short after 15 years with an airless and knowing I could get pretty good results with the experience i have on that machine, I decided to not go for the HVLP. Although I will say when it was dialed in it did lay down a beautiful finish!


Gun makes all the difference with HVLP. Graco and Titan HVLP guns feel like cheap knockoff after thought products. If your doing large sets of doors you would feed it with a pressure pot maybe a 2 gallon pot.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

pghsteve said:


> I'll check out the tritech tips and see if my guys like them. Honestly, never even heard of them. I live in SW & PPG world... if one of those two companies isn't selling it I generally don't know it exists. I like this website for that purpose. Also, I've never attended a PDCA (now PCA I guess). A buddy told me he goes or sends a couple of his guys and they feel like they get a lot out of it. I don't believe they've schedule a live annual meeting this year due to covid, but when they do I may start checking those out.
> I wouldn't say that the AAA doesn't do well - I just say we didn't do well with it. I'm not a good painter... I came from the mfg side before opening my company and am more a sales/mgt guy. I love the tech and coatings side of it...but just not where my value/experience lies. If I put that AAA in other hands with someone determined to figure it out, it may produce an entirely different result. I've also never made anything look good with an HVLP, but we probably own 5 or 6 of them and I have guys that make things look beautiful with them. When it comes to bulk doors... we do the same thing though. It's all airless FF tips. We're production guys mostly though... so we need a good finish, not a 10 million dollar home finish on most of what we do. If we push forward with this cabinet finishing thing - we have to figure out the details on how to do beautiful work that will be durable and give the customer what they're paying for. We have a lot of guys, so I don't mean to group everyone together. They all have different skill sets, all shine in some area or another. I have one foreman who's an artsy detail oriented guy with some history in furniture refinishing, and loves doing cabinets.... he's who we're going to have run this stuff if we do it... but I want to have input and help make sure we're doing the best that we can reasonably do.
> 
> If you weren't so far away, I'd happily tell you you could borrow our AAA for a couple months and see if you like it. I bet if you asked, Graco would find a demo unit and let you borrow it for a couple weeks. Buy if you like it, return to demo stock if you don't.


 You'll be happy to know there is a whole world of sprayers beyond what graco manufacturers. Kremlin, CAT, Tritech, Apollo are but a few.


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## PApaints (May 17, 2010)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Gun makes all the difference with HVLP. Graco and Titan HVLP guns feel like cheap knockoff after thought products. If your doing large sets of doors you would feed it with a pressure pot maybe a 2 gallon pot.


So what gun would you recommend? I don't want to replace all the machines, but I'd be more than happy to replace a gun or two and try something else.


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## PApaints (May 17, 2010)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> You'll be happy to know there is a whole world of sprayers beyond what graco manufacturers. Kremlin, CAT, Tritech, Apollo are but a few.


Yep... I occasionally see something on a sprayer type I'm not familiar with and look into them. I almost bought a Wiwa a while ago because I know they're supposed to be great...but in the end I stuck with the Graco 70:1 b/c they're what everyone around here uses and there is good sales and service on them. Ranging out would have been more to accomplish a feeling of bucking a trend than because I thought it would bring a tangible benefit over the Graco.
I looked at the CAT website... I see that they have a huge array of different specialty HVLP guns. That's interesting. I like some of the high end specialty stuff on the site...but it would be hard for us to pick the right one(s). We spray a wide range of coatings, and I'm guessing a lot of those guns are made for shop application where you're spraying the same material day after day? Not all...but many appear geared toward that. Is CAT the same company that makes the CAT pumps for pressure washers?


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

pghsteve said:


> I'll check out the tritech tips and see if my guys like them. Honestly, never even heard of them. I live in SW & PPG world... if one of those two companies isn't selling it I generally don't know it exists. I like this website for that purpose. Also, I've never attended a PDCA (now PCA I guess). A buddy told me he goes or sends a couple of his guys and they feel like they get a lot out of it. I don't believe they've schedule a live annual meeting this year due to covid, but when they do I may start checking those out.
> I wouldn't say that the AAA doesn't do well - I just say we didn't do well with it. I'm not a good painter... I came from the mfg side before opening my company and am more a sales/mgt guy. I love the tech and coatings side of it...but just not where my value/experience lies. If I put that AAA in other hands with someone determined to figure it out, it may produce an entirely different result. I've also never made anything look good with an HVLP, but we probably own 5 or 6 of them and I have guys that make things look beautiful with them. When it comes to bulk doors... we do the same thing though. It's all airless FF tips. We're production guys mostly though... so we need a good finish, not a 10 million dollar home finish on most of what we do. If we push forward with this cabinet finishing thing - we have to figure out the details on how to do beautiful work that will be durable and give the customer what they're paying for. We have a lot of guys, so I don't mean to group everyone together. They all have different skill sets, all shine in some area or another. I have one foreman who's an artsy detail oriented guy with some history in furniture refinishing, and loves doing cabinets.... he's who we're going to have run this stuff if we do it... but I want to have input and help make sure we're doing the best that we can reasonably do.
> 
> If you weren't so far away, I'd happily tell you you could borrow our AAA for a couple months and see if you like it. I bet if you asked, Graco would find a demo unit and let you borrow it for a couple weeks. Buy if you like it, return to demo stock if you don't.





cocomonkeynuts said:


> Gun makes all the difference with HVLP. Graco and Titan HVLP guns feel like cheap knockoff after thought products. If your doing large sets of doors you would feed it with a pressure pot maybe a 2 gallon pot.


Yeah i had been watching some videos of the pressure pots, was probably going to pick one up if I stuck with the HVLP. What's a good brand of HVLP gun?


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

Thanks for the offer. Yeah maybe I should look into Graco loaning me one, wouldn't mind giving one a go for a month or two. Sounds like you've got a pretty good-sized operation out there and plenty of good machines. I bet some of those specialty 2K Coatings @Wildbill7145 and @cocomonkeynuts among others have mentioned might be your ticket, if you're going into large quantities. The Breakthrough and Scuff X is great but if I were large company that was looking into doing a whole lot of cabinet sets, I'd probably try to dial in one of those specialty 2K Coatings, as they seem to be the bees knees from what I've collected on various threads. I just don't do quite enough sets per year to put in the time and energy to figure that out.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

pghsteve said:


> So what gun would you recommend? I don't want to replace all the machines, but I'd be more than happy to replace a gun or two and try something else.





fromthenorthwest said:


> Yeah i had been watching some videos of the pressure pots, was probably going to pick one up if I stuck with the HVLP. What's a good brand of HVLP gun?


I've owned the graco edge gun for ever and just not happy with it overall. I've started carrying apollo equipment. Apollo 7700 is the best HVLP gun on the market no question.
Eric reason on YT does several apollo videos and this guy does too:


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## Jaxpaint (Aug 23, 2007)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> I've owned the graco edge gun for ever and just not happy with it overall. I've started carrying apollo equipment. Apollo 7700 is the best HVLP gun on the market no question.
> Eric reason on YT does several apollo videos and this guy does too:


I own two Graco Edge, two Graco Edge 2, and an Apollo 7700. I agree that the build quality of the Apollo is much better than the Graco, however I don't think it sprays or atomizes any better than the Graco Edge 2 gun. This is with waterborne products FWIW. To me, a big plus with the Graco guns is the ease of disassembly/cleaning.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Jaxpaint said:


> I own two Graco Edge, two Graco Edge 2, and an Apollo 7700. I agree that the build quality of the Apollo is much better than the Graco, however I don't think it sprays or atomizes any better than the Graco Edge 2 gun. This is with waterborne products FWIW. To me, a big plus with the Graco guns is the ease of disassembly/cleaning.


Yes the graco gun is easy to clean, one of the things I liked about it. You do need to make sure to periodically remove the needle housing to clean the oring that sits behind there. It accumulates with paint quite quickly.
As far as spray pattern, graco just has the one aircap which is equivilent to the apollo B high solids cap. The various apollo caps give you a bit more control and finer atomization with thinner materials like BIN.
Also I absolutely dislike the graco PPS system and the gravity conversion kit is just garbage.
If the graco gun was less expensive I wouldn't be so critical but its probably the highest price HVLP gun on the market.

eric reason does a quick comparison here though I think he could have taken some more time to adjust the graco gun to his liking:


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## Jaxpaint (Aug 23, 2007)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Yes the graco gun is easy to clean, one of the things I liked about it. You do need to make sure to periodically remove the needle housing to clean the oring that sits behind there. It accumulates with paint quite quickly.
> As far as spray pattern, graco just has the one aircap which is equivilent to the apollo B high solids cap. The various apollo caps give you a bit more control and finer atomization with thinner materials like BIN.
> Also I absolutely dislike the graco PPS system and the gravity conversion kit is just garbage.
> If the graco gun was less expensive I wouldn't be so critical but its probably the highest price HVLP gun on the market.
> ...


Agree on the Graco PPS system. It works fine until you have to refill, then it's a PIA. I switched over to the 3m pps system on my Edge guns. Worth every penny.


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## Masterwork (Sep 13, 2020)

Jaxpaint said:


> Agree on the Graco PPS system. It works fine until you have to refill, then it's a PIA. I switched over to the 3m pps system on my Edge guns. Worth every penny.


What's the difference between the two pps systems?


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Masterwork said:


> What's the difference between the two pps systems?


Graco's PPS is a knock off of the 3M PPS1.0 system. It has one cup, a non replaceable lid and replacable liners. I find this system to cause spits due to pressure drop when you let off the trigger and also its really hard to fully clean the cup over time solvents eat away and swell the plastic so the lid no longer makes a good seal too.

3M PPS2.0 fixes the issues of fluid pressure drop, has replaceable lids with built in filters and has a quick disconnect instead of a threaded connection. The graco system is cheaper as you just need the liners but its a real PITA to work with.
Graco gravity cup just chuck in the garbage, for some reason graco thought it was a good idea to make an expensive plastic cup with a lid that doesn't have a gasket so its easy to spill material all over your finish.


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