# Benjamin Moore Arborcoat Solid Stain



## turquoise (Aug 14, 2011)

Painted a front porch with BM Arborcoat this weekend and very disappointed. First applied Exterior Alkyd Primer (366) because it was new cedar. About 6 hrs later, applied first coat of Arborcoat solid stain and within 24 hrs it was bubbling and peeling. It had rained earlier in the week. Is that the problem? Didn't perform moisture test. Should I have waited longer for the primer to dry (Tech sheet said 4 hrs)?


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Got any pics? A moisture meter is very handy and it can also be a surface prep issue along with the primer. Get a rep out there to look at the situation.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

First, I would have waited more than 6 hours for the 366 to dry. What was your moisture meeter reading before you applied primer?


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I agree even though it has a recommend 4 hr recoat, it also says that high humidity will effect that. Moisture in your substrate would cause issues with adhesion as well. 

Is the primer failing or just the topcoat?


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> Is the primer failing or just the topcoat?


Good point. If its failing down to bare wood, there is no Arborcoat failure.


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## turquoise (Aug 14, 2011)

No, the primer seems to be adhering. The Arborcoat peels off and I see my white primer, not wood underneath.


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

That quick of a failure sounds like a moisture issue. It can migrate through the primer. How's the ventilation under the deck?


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## NACE (May 16, 2008)

Solvent is still evaporating from primer. Was applied too thick, not dry enough due to humidity, or condensation formed on the primer interfering withvdry time of the primer. If the primer is tight and the topcoat is blistering, smell the blisters and see if it smell like paint thinner. Is the primer still soft? What size are the blisters?


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Perhaps the title of this thread should be changed?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Where do we even start?

Does BM recommend primer under solid Arborcoat?

We have used tons of 366 and I have never, ever, ever, seen it happy in 6 hours...even in a controlled shop environment. 

Is it possible to edit the title of the thread? 

No offense intended whatsoever, just observations, but this seems more like operator error than product failure.


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## Cbrosenterprises (Aug 14, 2011)

366 is the same exact primer as 094 which is a 4 hr dry...I would say that moisture is definitely the issue here.How warm was it/humidity,Arborcoat has oil in there which could cause an adhesion problem if it was humid and didnt set up properly


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

However:

​High humidity and cool temperatures will result in longer dry, recoat and service times. 


So, it seems we have moisture under the oil primer, and then we throw a whole bunch of waterborne solid stain on top. It seems the situation may have had a better chance of success minus the oil primer, given that its a product formulated for cedar and self priming:


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

Heck, after 6 hours I would have called it a day and painted it the next day. Overnight is 'quick-dry' in my book.


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## IHATE_HOMEDEPOT (May 27, 2008)

Water and oil don't mix....exactly.


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## turquoise (Aug 14, 2011)

I was priming new red wood cedar and to prevent tannin bleeding the store recommended the 366 primer. As per Arborcoat Tech Sheet: 
"New Wood or Properly Prepared Weathered Wood: This product is self-priming on most surfaces. Tannin rich woods such as redwood or cedar should be primed with Benjamin Moore® Alkyd Stain Primer (K366) or Fresh Start® All Purpose 100% Acrylic Primer (K023)." Alkyd primers are a universal undercoat and there should npt be a problem in applying a latex topcoat. Temperature 80F on Friday and no rain. There had been rain earlier in the week. So is it a moisture issue? Store also said 4hr dry time was sufficient. Difficult to examine blisters now as it has rained in the past hour here. BM dealer is recommending I wait and sand lightly and then reapply topcoat. Is this a fix?


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

turquoise said:


> BM dealer is recommending I wait and sand lightly and then reapply topcoat. Is this a fix?


Sounds like it to me. _But, _I would get the exact fix info from the Moores rep first. Cant go wrong talking to the manufacturers rep.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

sounds like the alkyd primer didn't have a chance to cure right. Just because it says 4 hrs to dry time on the can doesn't rule out it taking longer due to environmental conditions. You'll notice they give the recoat/dry time figure along with the temp and relative humidity for that timeframe.


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## Rick the painter (Mar 30, 2009)

Cbrosenterprises said:


> 366 is the same exact primer as 094 which is a 4 hr dry...I would say that moisture is definitely the issue here.How warm was it/humidity,Arborcoat has oil in there which could cause an adhesion problem if it was humid and didnt set up properly


Ive used 094 for ever...over night dry all the way!


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## NACE (May 16, 2008)

Rick the painter said:


> Ive used 094 for ever...over night dry all the way!


366 and 094 are identical products. They each come off the same filling line. Label is different. Overnight dry for both. Ignore the label. Learn by doing and making mistakes. School of hard knocks. The solvent in the primer has not completely evaporated out of the film. Rain and moisture are two different things. Those are solvent blisters. Sand. Let sit to evaporate trapped solvent and recoat. I would not have primed only because I've done tons of Arborcoat and it sticks great. Just did a concrete garage apron with it and it looks amazing. Paint companies over market their products. Professionals learn all the attributes of those products to their advantage and how to make money whatever the brand. Reps know little save for a few. They are not the professionals who swing a brush, roll a house, cut a line, or spray corrugated roof deck six days a week.


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## mustangmike3789 (Jun 11, 2011)

i've never used this product or read the data sheets on it but i'll bet that the 4 hour recoat is at 77 degrees @ 50% relative humidity. what was you RH on this day?


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## turquoise (Aug 14, 2011)

Thanks NACE. I only primed because I was concerned with tannin bleed. Do you think I need to reapply primer or just topcoat?


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## NACE (May 16, 2008)

Was the surface a bleeding cedar or white cedar. I would not re- prime. It starts to be come a paint system with another 2 coats. I would sand, see if anymore blistering occurs after a week, and then re coat. Do check moisture content before re coating. Should be between 8-12% and less than 15% How far off the ground is the deck?


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

turquoise said:


> Do you think I need to reapply primer or just topcoat?


I think you need to hire a Professional painter :whistling2:


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

I too feel the thread title should be edited. I use a lot of the Arborcoat products and have had great results. I really dont need a customer seeing the title in a Google search when its pretty obvious it wasnt the product. Have you had a rep come out to look at it yet? That would have been my first move although I already know what they will say. My next question is why would you prime something your going to stain? Then prime and finish in the same day? Not to mention that all though they do make quick dry oil primers for exterior use too, I feel QD primers are for interiors like trim packs on NC, etc. On exteriors I prefer a slow drying primer thats going to penetrate as deep into the substrate as possible and I will give it a min of 24 hrs. I also didnt read anything about checking the moisture content? And what about mill glaze? What was done to remove it? It wasnt the BM product that failed and its not fair to blame the product. I have an issue going on with a painted deck done in another product. Two reps are coming out today. Until that happens and I find out exactly what the problem is, Im not going online blaming the product whiich I will not mention the name because I feel it wouldnt be fair to the manufactuer which wasted no time trying to help. It would be nice to the the product name removed from the title. Thank you.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Thank you Mods


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