# XIM bleed through possible? Yep.



## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I never thought I would see something bleed through xim. We primed some standard interior 1970's panelling and put a second coat of acrylic primer over top for better hide (after a 3-4 hour dry on XIM) and the next day, there was wood tannin bleed through!


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

DeanV said:


> I never thought I would see something bleed through xim. We primed some standard interior 1970's panelling and put a second coat of acrylic primer over top for better hide (after a 3-4 hour dry on XIM) and the next day, there was wood tannin bleed through!


Latex or alkyd XIM? XIM is more of a bonding primer than a sealing type. Stix is also great for adhesion, but typically stinks for hiding and blocking.

Sent from my Android, which is still better than the iPhone 6


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Original alkyd 400W. We put Graham blockout over top of the XIM. Always double primer when converting from stained to painted.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

DeanV said:


> Original alkyd 400W. We put Graham blockout over top of the XIM. Always double primer when converting from stained to painted.


Yeah, I wouldn't expect an issue with that.

Sent from my Android, which is still better than the iPhone 6


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I had it happen on that knotty pine job of mine. Tried a half dozen solvent based primers including XIM. The only primer I found that didn't have some bleed was shellac.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

straight_lines said:


> I had it happen on that knotty pine job of mine. Tried a half dozen solvent based primers including XIM. The only primer I found that didn't have some bleed was shellac.


We have a cottage to convert from pine to to painted trim coming up. Probably going to use a lot of bin on that one. Might spot prime with regular shellac first. The panelling was clear, no knots.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

I find that waiting longer for the first coat to dry gives the second coat a chance to lock in the cedar bleed. I would have waiting 24 hours for the XIM to dry before topcoating it with another primer.


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## caulktheline (Feb 10, 2011)

I'm sure this wasn't your issue, but I had a problem once when I scuff sanded the paneling before priming, and I didn't clean the dust off well enough.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I usually try to let stuff sit a bit longer, but timing is always an issue. Given that we me product specs and xim dries crazy fast, thought it would work fine.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

DeanV said:


> I usually try to let stuff sit a bit longer, but timing is always an issue. Given that we me product specs and xim dries crazy fast, thought it would work fine.


Drying and curing are two totally different things. The XIM may be dry enough to topcoat like you did, but not cured enough to hold back staining. If timing is an issue, then there is no cure other than BIN/Shellac.


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## Susan (Nov 29, 2011)

Same issue on Wednesday. Spotted the knots with shellac. Such is life..as a painter. I hate would rather not paint cottages, but..I've figure out that if I'm going to be on me knees..it doesn't matter if it's a 1mil house or a 100thou house...I'm still on my knees.


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## NACE (May 16, 2008)

Pine and poplar have solvent soluable resins. When you put an alkyd on resinous pine, or boards who's pitch has not been "set" by the kiln, the alkyd will activate the pitch and cause bleed. Shellac works because it's not mineral spirit based. Mineral Spirits are distilled form of pine. Water based sealing type primers work best followed by and oil base primer learned all about this from a 10,000 gallon project at the Yale Bowl on brand new Doug Fir.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

NACE said:


> Pine and poplar have solvent soluable resins. When you put an alkyd on resinous pine, or boards who's pitch has not been "set" by the kiln, the alkyd will activate the pitch and cause bleed. Shellac works because it's not mineral spirit based. Mineral Spirits are distilled form of pine. Water based sealing type primers work best followed by and oil base primer learned all about this from a 10,000 gallon project at the Yale Bowl on brand new Doug Fir.


 Thats the case Nace!:thumbsup:


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

NACE said:


> Pine and poplar have solvent soluable resins. When you put an alkyd on resinous pine, or boards who's pitch has not been "set" by the kiln, the alkyd will activate the pitch and cause bleed. Shellac works because it's not mineral spirit based. Mineral Spirits are distilled form of pine. Water based sealing type primers work best followed by and oil base primer learned all about this from a 10,000 gallon project at the Yale Bowl on brand new Doug Fir.


The down side is that on old stained trim work, I really prefer oil for the first coat for bonding. I feel it is more forgiving if, even after cleaning and sanding, there is some residual polishes, murphy's oil soap, or other contaminants left.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

stains are a pain

(because mud didn't say it)


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

NACE said:


> Pine and poplar have solvent soluable resins. When you put an alkyd on resinous pine, or boards who's pitch has not been "set" by the kiln, the alkyd will activate the pitch and cause bleed. Shellac works because it's not mineral spirit based. Mineral Spirits are distilled form of pine. Water based sealing type primers work best followed by and oil base primer learned all about this from a 10,000 gallon project at the Yale Bowl on brand new Doug Fir.


Mineral spirits are not distilled from pine trees, it comes from crude oil. You are thinking turpentine. As to the oil primer, depends - did you get oil primer that was also stain-killing as one of it's properties? I've never ever never had tannic acid bleed come through any of the oil primers I have ever bought, unless it was a knot.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

I've never relied on XIM as a good stain sealing primer - only for bonding issues.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I chose XIM for bonding primarily, but thought since it is a sealer as well it would block stains. The third coat of primer was XIM and did the trick. We have converted a fair amount of wood with XIM over the past 12 years and not had a problem before that I can recall.


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## playedout6 (Apr 27, 2009)

We used Cover Stain Oil Primer over some paneling a few weeks ago and it turned out great . We let it dry overnight and I had the boys pay close attention to the grooves and not to miss a bit of it with the primer . I was concerned about the bleeding...but it all turned out ok .


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

I've primed plenty of wood paneling with 100% acrylic stain killing primer and muralo topcoats. Usually the bleed goes through the primer and then the first coat a little less.
Come back the next day and put the final coat and everything is beautiful. Just because it bleeds through, or has 'stained' the primer coat and first topcoat - doesn't necessarily mean the staining hasn't been stopped.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

DeanV said:


> I chose XIM for bonding primarily, but thought since it is a sealer as well it would block stains. The third coat of primer was XIM and did the trick. We have converted a fair amount of wood with XIM over the past 12 years and not had a problem before that I can recall.


I've used this exact primer as well on stained wood trim and wood paneling, it has very weak hiding properties - I consider it a sealer only and not a primer. Still, never had much issue with just two topcoats of paint following it. I only consider this product if the paneling will receive no prep whatsoever, no sanding, no cleaning.


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## NACE (May 16, 2008)

plainpainter said:


> Mineral spirits are not distilled from pine trees, it comes from crude oil. You are thinking turpentine. As to the oil primer, depends - did you get oil primer that was also stain-killing as one of it's properties? I've never ever never had tannic acid bleed come through any of the oil primers I have ever bought, unless it was a knot.


Yes, mineral spirits is a hydrocarbon and turpentine is pine based. Poor wording on my part and thanks for pointing it out. Mineral spirits will activate pitch as pitch is solvent soluable. Tannins are water soluable. They are a by product of the metabolic process of trees. Tree waste. Water activates tannins and alkyds generally hold them back.


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