# Solidbody stain who is the best choice



## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

With SW changing there formula i think it is time to look around. I have used timbershades and cabots what else does anyone recommend and why.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

I like flood, and they still have an alkyd formula. I might be using it in a few months. 

I like flood because it hasn't done me wrong yet....Just don't use the tiger lily colour, it comes out pink


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

Have not used flood in solidbody only semi.thanks


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

journeymanPainter said:


> I like flood, and they still have an alkyd formula. I might be using it in a few months.
> 
> I like flood because it hasn't done me wrong yet....Just don't use the tiger lily colour, it comes out pink


Flood solid stain is a solid product. And it is fairly easy to find.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Yeah, the Flood solid is good stuff. It's always done well for me.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

BPC said:


> With SW changing there formula i think it is time to look around. I have used timbershades and cabots what else does anyone recommend and why.


We really like Benny Moore ArborCoat solid. It goes on well and the Gennex tints given them great color retention. We have some 3-4 year old jobs that I think we could touch up without problems.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I have used thousands of gallons of Cabot's solid acrylic, but this year we are switching to ArborCoat. Banking on the better color retention of ArborCoat. We will see how it plays out.

We have also seen some batch issues with colors not matching well enough between batches of Cabots. We are hoping this will be less of an issue with BM.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Love Arbourcoat. Did a siding job with it the year after it came out. Still looks good. Did a different job around the same time with the BM classic solid stain. Does not still look good.

Interestingly, I've poked around on different product review sites over the past few years looking at Arbourcoat. Surprised it wasn't getting the greatest reviews. Peeling problems, bubbling, etc. I've personally never experienced any of this.

I have heard some people complain that it leaves an almost "plastic" look though.


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

Has anyone tried woodscapes this season everything we have bought is alot thinner. Think i will try arbor coat and flood to see which goes better. We do alot of cedar around here.


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## readytoofire (Mar 13, 2015)

Flood all the way!!! Shark Skin is super tough also


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

Could anyone who has posted as to their favorite solid stain please clarify that you were referring to Acrylic or Alkyd please? I'm really trying to find a quality acrylic solid stain. One of the few products I don't have a favorite, so your input is much appreciated.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> Could anyone who has posted as to their favorite solid stain please clarify that you were referring to Acrylic or Alkyd please? I'm really trying to find a quality acrylic solid stain. One of the few products I don't have a favorite, so your input is much appreciated.


BM ArborCoat is an acrylic.

EDIT: I just happened to look on the BM website, there ARE oil-based. ArborCoat stains. Our local doesn't carry them and I was unaware of their existence until just now.


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## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

In my part of New England we use a ton of solid stain. Woodscrapes is now like water, BM Arborcoat is good , Californa Storm Stain is good. Of those 3 we use BM the most as its readily available and BM is king here. Flood is a very very good product but not sure who has it. We don't use oil solid anymore but when we did P&L was king. Cabots was sold is now 100 percent junk.


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

Arborcoat solid has been good for us.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

I'm surprised to see this many people praising Arborcoat. Maybe I should be giving it a shot.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Woodford said:


> I'm surprised to see this many people praising Arborcoat. Maybe I should be giving it a shot.


I'll admit that we've been less thrilled with the semi-transparent version, but we've only used that a time or two.


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## Boco (May 18, 2013)

Arborcoat $46.00 per gal. Flood around $23 per gal. Both good products but Flood is cost effective. The only thing I don't like about the Flood solid is that the dark colors will leave lap marks if you aren't careful.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Boco said:


> Arborcoat $46.00 per gal. Flood around $23 per gal. Both good products but Flood is cost effective. The only thing I don't like about the Flood solid is that the dark colors will leave lap marks if you aren't careful.


They're both prone to showing lap marks in the darker colors. Come to think of it, I don't think we've used a solid-color acrylic that doesn't have that issue.

If you're aiming for a long-term relationship with your clients, ArborCoat is more cost-effective by far. The color-fastness of the Gennex tints means a longer service life. It may not be twice that of the Flood, but I think it'll be close. Considering the ratio of material/labor costs, even a few more years represents a substantial savings.


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## Criard (Nov 23, 2013)

We sell a lot of Pratt and Lambert's Stainshield for a solid stain.

Haven't heard a single complaint about it yet.


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## Boco (May 18, 2013)

Gough said:


> They're both prone to showing lap marks in the darker colors. Come to think of it, I don't think we've used a solid-color acrylic that doesn't have that issue.
> 
> If you're aiming for a long-term relationship with your clients, ArborCoat is more cost-effective by far. The color-fastness of the Gennex tints means a longer service life. It may not be twice that of the Flood, but I think it'll be close. Considering the ratio of material/labor costs, even a few more years represents a substantial savings.


 Arborcoat solid is a nice product but doesn't last forever. Arborcoat semi is a joke. If you get 5-7 years before stain starts to fade or bleed through you are doing great. If you wait to the 8-10 year range you are looking for a lot of wood repair. Flood will get you to the 5-7 range but the deep base colors lap mark. I don't like lap marks so I use pick, ladder, and spray finish with a wand technique.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Boco said:


> Arborcoat solid is a nice product but doesn't last forever. Arborcoat semi is a joke. If you get 5-7 years before stain starts to fade or bleed through you are doing great. If you wait to the 8-10 year range you are looking for a lot of wood repair. Flood will get you to the 5-7 range but the deep base colors lap mark. I don't like lap marks so I use pick, ladder, and spray finish with a wand technique.


As I posted in #16, I'm not a fan of the semi, I'm talking about solids. 

We're just seeing a dramatic difference in the fade rate after switching to products with GENNEX versus UTCs. I did some back-of-the-envelope calculations using the prices you posted above ($23/$46). Typically, if the ArborCoat just lasts one year longer, the annual cost using it was cheaper until you got past a 10/11 year repaint cycle.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Gough said:


> BM ArborCoat is an acrylic.


Sadly, they just brought back the oil version up here. It had gone away a few years ago.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Boco said:


> Arborcoat semi is a joke.


I'm assuming you're talking about the semi-transparent in the newish formulation that requires the clear coat (rather than the classic oil)? Is it that application process that you dislike, the look, or the performance? Have you tried the new-new one that doesn't require a topcoat?


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

I'm curious, the Arborcoat solid stain recommends priming on new cedar and redwood (because of tannins). Those of you that use the product, is that a procedure you actually follow?


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Criard said:


> We sell a lot of Pratt and Lambert's Stainshield for a solid stain.
> 
> Haven't heard a single complaint about it yet.


It's one of my big sellers. Lots of customers coming in to re-coat saying it lasted 3-5 years on decks.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Woodford said:


> I'm curious, the Arborcoat solid stain recommends priming on new cedar and redwood (because of tannins). Those of you that use the product, is that a procedure you actually follow?


Yes.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Gough said:


> Yes.


Seems to be a lot of people who aren't interested in doing so. Glad you are.


I'm curious if anyone at all has tried the new Semi that doesn't have to be clear coated? I understand not wanting to deal with two products, but I'm wondering if people's dislike for that product goes beyond that.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Woodford said:


> Seems to be a lot of people who aren't interested in doing so. Glad you are.
> 
> 
> I'm curious if anyone at all has tried the new Semi that doesn't have to be clear coated? I understand not wanting to deal with two products, but I'm wondering if people's dislike for that product goes beyond that.


I may give it a shot this season. We've got a strip/re-stain job that I've been putting off for several years. The H.O. Is a retired painting contractor, and I've been dreading doing the project. He has a well-deserved reputation as an arrogant, pedantic Prima donna, so this could be the job from hell.


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

Woodford said:


> I'm curious, the Arborcoat solid stain recommends priming on new cedar and redwood (because of tannins). Those of you that use the product, is that a procedure you actually follow?


Yes all new or bare wood gets oil primed, follow with 2 coats Arborcoat. Lots of t&g barns and stables we do get the same treatment.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Most water based stains if you look hard enough (i.e. read the directions or the data sheet) say to prime tannin bleed prone woods with an oil based primer. Some of them say to stain right over the bare wood and if there is any tannin bleed through, to spot prime those areas and re-coat with the stain. The problem with that of course is that the tannin bleed may not start for a good period of time. Rarely while a painter is still on that job. then what do you do? Say "tough luck" or prime and stain those areas again for free? And how do you know it isn't going to bleed somewhere else next week?

Best practice to cover your behind is still to prime with an oil. That's why most premium paint brands such as BM say to do it.


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

Proalliance coatings said:


> Most water based stains if you look hard enough (i.e. read the directions or the data sheet) say to prime tannin bleed prone woods with an oil based primer. Some of them say to stain right over the bare wood and if there is any tannin bleed through, to spot prime those areas and re-coat with the stain. The problem with that of course is that the tannin bleed may not start for a good period of time. Rarely while a painter is still on that job. then what do you do? Say "tough luck" or prime and stain those areas again for free? And how do you know it isn't going to bleed somewhere else next week?
> 
> Best practice to cover your behind is still to prime with an oil. That's why most premium paint brands such as BM say to do it.


Not to mention the long term adhesion of the system. IDK, but I would bet a quality oil primer like 094 or 100 is a better foundation than an acrylic solid stain alone. 
There's also dimensional stability to think about and any new wood siding primed all around will fair better down the road. 
If it's a semi-transparent then we apply that on all sides also. For semi we stay away from acrylics and only use oil or emulsions.


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## Boco (May 18, 2013)

Gough said:


> BM ArborCoat is an acrylic.


 My mistake the semi BM oil I am using is not Arborcoat. The cans look very similar though and I know I asked for Arborcoat. Been on this one job for 5 years now. Every other year there is a new product and it gets confusing. This season I had a hell of a time dipping the BM semi oil. You cant add thinner or it changes color. If you don't add thinner it wont dry and goes on too heavy. FN nightmare. On top of that I am getting mold growth and the stain is not holding up well to the harsh lake environment. So far the ones I dipped last season have held up great. Too early to tell about this seasons batch with a different product. BM stain alkylid


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Boco said:


> My mistake the semi BM oil I am using is not Arborcoat. The cans look very similar though and I know I asked for Arborcoat. Been on this one job for 5 years now. Every other year there is a new product and it gets confusing. This season I had a hell of a time dipping the BM semi oil. You cant add thinner or it changes color. If you don't add thinner it wont dry and goes on too heavy. FN nightmare. On top of that I am getting mold growth and the stain is not holding up well to the harsh lake environment. So far the ones I dipped last season have held up great. Too early to tell about this seasons batch with a different product. BM stain alkylid


I just looked on the BM website and they show oil-based ArborCoat stains as well as waterborne. I hadn't realized that.


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## JPPaint (Jan 3, 2014)

BM just changed label on oil it wasn't an arbor coat original it's same old oil BM


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

As JP says, Arborcoat "Classic Oil" is the original BM oil stains just relabeled. Presumably trying to increase name recognition by getting it all under one flag- something they should have done a long time ago.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Woodford said:


> As JP says, Arborcoat "Classic Oil" is the original BM oil stains just relabeled. Presumably trying to increase name recognition by getting it all under one flag- something they should have done a long time ago.


I'd have to disagree, respectfully. I think adding oil-based stains into the line confuses the issue and dilutes the brand.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Gough said:


> I'd have to disagree, respectfully. I think adding oil-based stains into the line confuses the issue and dilutes the brand.


Once you know the difference it's not particularly confusing in my opinion. One is oil, one is acrylic. As far as I know, the vast majority of stain manufacturers have their acrylics and oils under one name, e.g., Valspar with Cabot.

Arborcoat doesn't really have the name recognition of many other brands on the market with consumers, and then confusing them by offering at one point three (I think?) different labels of Benjamin Moore stain didn't help and was muddling advertising attempts. In marketing, it's almost always better to have as much product under one label as possible- brand and product recognition.

Can you be more specific about what you think is the downside to it? Obviously lots of change sucks and can be confusing (once), but if the change is to get the product in a better and more marketable position I'd think that'd be a good thing.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Woodford said:


> Once you know the difference it's not particularly confusing in my opinion. One is oil, one is acrylic. As far as I know, the vast majority of stain manufacturers have their acrylics and oils under one name, e.g., Valspar with Cabot.
> 
> Arborcoat doesn't really have the name recognition of many other brands on the market with consumers, and then confusing them by offering at one point three (I think?) different labels of Benjamin Moore stain didn't help and was muddling advertising attempts. In marketing, it's almost always better to have as much product under one label as possible- brand and product recognition.
> 
> Can you be more specific about what you think is the downside to it? Obviously lots of change sucks and can be confusing (once), but if the change is to get the product in a better and more marketable position I'd think that'd be a good thing.


I just liked the notion that ArborCoat was a "New Generation" of exterior stains, or however the initial literature touted it.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Fair point. They might have stuck with it if Arborcoat had gone over better... 

Shame it's got such a bad rap. Wanting to swap from Cabot to Arborcoat, but my boss (manager of the lumber yard side of things) is worried because of all the bad reviews.

Would love to get rid of Cabot; could get rid of my universal colorants entirely, machine and all, which would save us money buying redundant tints, doing extra maintenance, power bill, etc.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Woodford said:


> Fair point. They might have stuck with it if Arborcoat had gone over better...
> 
> Shame it's got such a bad rap. Wanting to swap from Cabot to Arborcoat, but my boss (manager of the lumber yard side of things) is worried because of all the bad reviews.
> 
> Would love to get rid of Cabot; could get rid of my universal colorants entirely, machine and all, which would save us money buying redundant tints, doing extra maintenance, power bill, etc.


I can hook you up with the Cali rep. the Storm stains are pretty good if your boss doesn't want to carry Arborcoat.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Proalliance coatings said:


> I can hook you up with the Cali rep. the Storm stains are pretty good if your boss doesn't want to carry Arborcoat.


We'll see how it turns out. I doubt I'd be able to consistently make shipping minimums to have Storm delivered, though I have heard it's a good product.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Just a note here. my former employer, a BM dealer, stained their walking bridge last summer using a BM W/R Arborcoat solid deck stain. This was after two attempts at using Restore/failure. Normally because of the volume of people walking across that bridge (it's from a parking lot to the main entrance) they re-stain with solid every summer. This year is the first year they get to skip the re-stain. They had used the old BM acrylic deck stain for years before the "Restore/Disaster", but the "new" Arborcoat is holding up quite a bit better.


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