# Is there a paint that'll cover black with white in two coats?



## Toronto Painters (Nov 11, 2010)

In my 20+ years of experience I have always had to prime black walls twice followed by 2 finish coats to make them solidly white. But now, it seems every paint manufacturer out there is making a paint with primer in it that's supposed to cover like nothing ever before. 

So far, I've specified a few paints over the past year with primer built in (which I won't name here) that haven't entirely lived up to their hype OR their price. But now, push has come to shove and I have an entire restaurant to paint later this month for a New York Times spread in a matter of only two days! The walls are all DARK blues, blacks and reds and we have to make them picture perfect White with only enough time to apply two coats.

I've checked Consumer Reports and according to their testing, BM Aura Satin is the best covering paint out there. And second to that, I was surprised to see Behr Premium Plus Ultra Satin Enamel at half the price! But before I commit to the job and the price, I need to KNOW that my guys will get out of there with the best results in the two days we've got to do it (I'd usually call this a 3-day restaurant for a crew of 3)

So the million dollar question is: Is there a paint out there that will cover Black, Blue and Red with White in two coats? (Of course, when I ask our suppliers, they all have a great recommendation of there own product knowing full well that when it doesn't cover, our only option is to buy more of their paint!)

What paint would you use if you were in this position as a painting contractor?


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## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

Behr ultra. Hire jack pauhl. Make him your biotch for a day. It is also essential you throw a gang sign at the wall before the first coat.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

I'd think any good quality dead flat would
Cover black in 2........... Not really
Sure though cause I'm not into that GOTH stuff


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## playedout6 (Apr 27, 2009)

I like the Manor Hall Timeless from PPG for covering in deep base colors...but I also know that is not what you asked ! I have never used it over Black...but I would have to say it is the best out of what I have available to pick from . I don't have a BM store in this area .


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

Toronto Painters said:


> In my 20+ years of experience I have always had to prime black walls twice followed by 2 finish coats to make them solidly white. But now, it seems every paint manufacturer out there is making a paint with primer in it that's supposed to cover like nothing ever before.
> 
> So far, I've specified a few paints over the past year with primer built in (which I won't name here) that haven't entirely lived up to their hype OR their price. But now, push has come to shove and I have an entire restaurant to paint later this month for a New York Times spread in a matter of only two days! The walls are all *DARK blues*, blacks and reds and we have to make them picture perfect White with only enough time to apply two coats.


 
heres a vid of mine, its a short vid :whistling2: .........DEEP DARK BLUE door i used SW Prep right? latex primer think thats what its called but anyway look for yourself it almost covered in 1 ........hope this helps an good luck man 

http://youtu.be/5JRs7LuCEUk


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## Builtmany (Dec 5, 2009)

Nothing is going to cover black in 2 coats especially with the new formulas and VOC laws. Maybe 20 years ago there was something but it probably was found to be harmful to all of us.


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## champer71 (Mar 12, 2012)

if you have two coates then u will need two pants. no matter what color.


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## champer71 (Mar 12, 2012)

StripandCaulk said:


> Behr ultra. Hire jack pauhl. Make him your biotch for a day. It is also essential you throw a gang sign at the wall before the first coat.


 you sound stupid and jealous!!!


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

champer71 said:


> if you have two coates then u will need two *pants*. no matter what color.



Whites and camo? or jeans and Zubas?


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

Builtmany said:


> Nothing is going to cover black in 2 coats especially with the new formulas and VOC laws. Maybe 20 years ago there was something but it probably was found to be harmful to all of us.


 
it will cover on the flats but maybe not edges ...........go back an edit your post now :blink:


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## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

champer71 said:


> you sound stupid and jealous!!!


I just bought a wild zebra online. Its sweet. Probably going to name it jeffrey, maybe paul. What do you think?


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

what the Canadian needs to do is hit it once with a full coat then as its settin up touch up the edges as he goes then after it dries hit it with a full 2nd coat .....BANG !! it will cover trust me i know this man and besides its a god damn restaurant for cryin out load !! have you ever been in one with the lights one ??? MISSES EVERYWHERE


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

StripandCaulk said:


> I just bought a wild zebra online. Its sweet. Probably going to name it jeffrey, maybe paul. What do you think?


how much did you pay for your Zebra an what do you feed it ?.....:blink:


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## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

Ole34 said:


> how much did you pay for your Zebra an what do you feed it ?.....:blink:


Got it for like 20 bucks from china, it does have rabies so ill have to figure that out. Im actually trying to start a lawncare service, they eat grass. Trying to keep the overhead low.


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## venetian designs (Nov 24, 2007)

Exterior paint? Resilience levels out almost as nice as interior paints do, and you can apply it heavier than interior paints without sagging. Recently repainted interior of a garage from dark brown (almost black) to an off white, first coat looked almost perfect.


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## Carl (Jun 18, 2011)

It may be true that Aura is the best covering paint around, but if it is base 1, it doesn't cover any better than any other brand. The super coverage only applies to darker colors. In fact, I think Aura in white or yellow covers pretty poorly comparing to other paints. Also, I"m not sure why you think that paint with primer in the can will help paint to cover better. That's just a marketing trick....there isn't any primer in those cans, and even if there was, it's not like that would make the paint cover better.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Ole34 said:


> I'd think any good quality dead flat would
> Cover black in 2........... Not really
> Sure though cause I'm not into that GOTH stuff


Anymore covering any paint in two is rare.


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## STAR (Nov 26, 2010)

I recently painted some doors and frames white. Previous colour was a dark burgundy and I primed them with BM fresh start (k046) and topped them with 1 coat of semi and they turned out great.
I was really impressed with this product and would recommend it for extreme colour changes.
BTW, dries fast too!


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## PhillysFinest (Jun 9, 2012)

NO! Prime and 2 coats!


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

I'm partial to Aura. But I'd seriously think about buying a quart of each and taking them out for a test drive. All the internet advise in the world won't amount to a hill of beans until you actually put paint to wall.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Dee,

Obviously do not believe the "paint and primer in one" marketing hype. You will find more truth coming out of Ottawa, Washington, London, Moscow, and Tehran all put together.


full bodied primer (with stain blocker) and 2 coats of full bodied finish. Add some squirts of white to each.


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## TheRogueBristle (Mar 19, 2010)

We all know better. Phillysfinest is right, prime and two coats. I wouldn't trust anything else to work. 

You should be able to do thre coats in one day, depending on size?


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

Really good primer. Let it dry as spec'd for full blocking. Crank big fans. 2 coats high quality Acrylic. If yer felling frisky you could BIN it......then topcoat.


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

venetian designs said:


> Exterior paint? Resilience levels out almost as nice as interior paints do, and you can apply it heavier than interior paints without sagging. Recently repainted interior of a garage from dark brown (almost black) to an off white, first coat looked almost perfect.


Exterior paint is a good idea, the white is not usually "as white" as the interior white, which might be why is covers better? Glidden High Hiding white has some black in the formula to make it cover better and might do it in two coats, but who knows?


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

maybe it's different for waterbornes than solvent based, but I was told many years ago by a Calif rep that it was not wise to use exterior paints inside - health reasons. 

All the stuff that makes them durable and mold resisatnt is not good for humans in a non-ventilated space. 

But as I said, maybe different with today's waterbornes.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

Same reasons with today's paints. Also, exterior paints used inside are prone to glycol blush and weird leeching colorants and such.


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## Builtmany (Dec 5, 2009)

Surprised nobody said Kilz2 :whistling2:


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## caulktheline (Feb 10, 2011)

6 coats of K2 would do it.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Toronto Painters said:


> What paint would you use if you were in this position as a painting contractor?


I wouldn't be thinking about the finish paint as much as the primer I was going to use.

The only way I would consider two coats for this deal is if I could spray all of it without backroll, at least for the finish coat. I would spray on a prime coat, let that dry an hour, then spray the finish. 

But, I probably wouldn't like doing that for several reasons.

I agree with everybody, primer and then two finish coats is what the doctor ordered.

Exterior paint should not be used indoors. The mildewcides are bad to breathe in and it also cures differently if indoors and could cause problems.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

im starting to think half of you don't have a clue as to what your doing......did this sample today, 2 coats cheap flat white over a deep deep brown an im tellin you now that if you use a premium paint an side roll up top an down at the base an into the corners it WILL COVER IN 2 an to be honest I don't even think you need to side roll but ........all this 3 coat talk is exactly the kind of chest thumping the Canadian doesn't need when he came here for advice. you want to spec out 3 coats to cover your ass on a job thats fine but the OP just needs it to cover ......big difference in how you hand out advice


*1 coat* *applied by a professional* (very important)










*2nd coat* *applied by a professional* (very important)


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

an for all you clowns (sad i have to explain this ) that nasty **** at the base in the first pic is because there used to be a built in bed there an the HO'er did the painting then removed the bed an now im there painting .......normally sombody of my caliber wouldnt have to explain this but this is painttalk sooooooo


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

Ole34 said:


> im starting to think half of you don't have a clue as to what your doing......did this sample today, 2 coats cheap flat white over a deep deep brown an im tellin you now that if you use a premium paint an side roll up top an down at the base an into the corners it WILL COVER IN 2 an to be honest I don't even think you need to side roll but ........all this 3 coat talk is exactly the kind of chest thumping the Canadian doesn't need when he came here for advice. you want to spec out 3 coats to cover your ass on a job thats fine but the OP just needs it to cover ......big difference in how you hand out advice
> 
> 
> *1 coat* *applied by a professional* (very important)
> ...


Ole...you're the best... I haven't had the _pleasure_ of reading thru the entire thread so I am sure I have missed a lot so.... I'm not saying I agree or disagree...I'm just saying you're the best...:thumbsup:


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

thanks cliff ! ......im just tryin to get the guy some concrete results he can look at an make a judgment on thats all......


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

Looks good. Restaurant in flat? It'd be f'd in 3 nights. Maybe great paint in eggshel/satin covers in 2, that would be good.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

kdpaint said:


> Looks good. Restaurant in flat? It'd be f'd in 3 nights. Maybe great paint in eggshel/satin covers in 2, that would be good.


 
the OP only mentioned needing it done in 2 days for a NY Times spread ......top coat enamel later on after the cameras leave ?


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## TheRogueBristle (Mar 19, 2010)

Ole34 said:


> an for all you clowns (sad i have to explain this ) that nasty **** at the base in the first pic is because there used to be a built in bed there an the HO'er did the painting then removed the bed an now im there painting .......normally sombody of my caliber wouldnt have to explain this but this is painttalk sooooooo


Ole wait, what is the line that extends from the bottom of the window sill to the bottom of your cut line?

And still man, that looks a little shady in spots- like three inches to the left of that line I'm talking about and then about four inches to the left of that. I don't think Times photographers will be using their Droid phones for their "spread".


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

TheRogueBristle said:


> Ole wait, what is the line that extends from the bottom of the window sill to the bottom of your cut line?
> 
> And still man, that looks a little shady in spots- like three inches to the left of that line I'm talking about and then about four inches to the left of that. I don't think Times photographers will be using their Droid phones for their "spread".


 
that line is a crack but it looks like it runs straight up through the trim as well ............wierd but its definitly a crack in the wall i know this cause i had to mess with it to avoid a run. it is what it is but remember i wasnt tryin to win any medals there just throwin up a quick sample at the end of the day. i wont be back in that room for another week or so an had to expalin to the HO'er about the sample, told her i was checking out a new primer .....the **** i do for painttalk lol


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

I just covered a dark chocolate brown in a hair salon using 1 coat of Sherwin Williams Quick Dry Stain Blocking primer, and one coat finish of SW Promar 200 Zero VOC paint. Covered like a champ. Brush and roll.

FACT!


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

Archibald probably knows this paint - Durant paints will easily cover a deep black in two coats - and probably get 95% after the first coat.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

plainpainter said:


> Archibald probably knows this paint - Durant paints will easily cover a deep black in two coats - and probably get 95% after the first coat.



never hear of it. I knew a Dick Durant, but I don't think he's a paint manufacturer. 

Where's it made? Merrimack Valley ?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

ProWallGuy said:


> I just covered a dark chocolate brown in a hair salon using 1 coat of Sherwin Williams Quick Dry Stain Blocking primer, and one coat finish of SW Promar 200 Zero VOC paint. Covered like a champ. Brush and roll.
> 
> FACT!


That gets the "attaboy". I still use primer too. Even though it is so not fashionable right now.


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## ddemair (Nov 3, 2008)

kdpaint said:


> Same reasons with today's paints. Also, exterior paints used inside are prone to glycol blush and weird leeching colorants and such.


What is "glycol blush" and why would it occur more with exterior paints?

I understand that there are mildewcides and such in exterior paints that you really don't want offgassing inside, but other than that, I'm curious about the differences between interior and exterior paints.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

I heard the term used by a 40 year veteran painter to describe a when you see sheen differences and a small amount of liquid (maybe propellant or glycol) doesnt dry in the paint film, but migrates to the top, where it can be wiped off, but may reappear later. I know it happens with solvent based lacquers, but I have seen it with exterior paint used in a residential kitchen, and once in a bathroom. There is probably a more accurate term to use, I just don't know it. Where's our resident paint chemist Wolverine been anyway?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

kd

I am no chemist (altho I met one once), just another poster, but I believe I have heard the condition you are describing referred to as surfactant leaching once.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

Ya Scott, that sounds right. I know when applying lacquer when its humid you can get a "blush", I kinda mixed them up I guess.:thumbsup:


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

daArch said:


> maybe it's different for waterbornes than solvent based, but I was told many years ago by a Calif rep that it was not wise to use exterior paints inside - health reasons.
> 
> All the stuff that makes them durable and mold resisatnt is not good for humans in a non-ventilated space.
> 
> ...


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Gwarel said:


> daArch said:
> 
> 
> > biskits n' gravy
> ...


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> Gwarel said:
> 
> 
> > Might want to back off on these kind of references. The elder moderators around here are like Team Geritol. You will get intimate details about everything from colon blow to lactose intolerance to hemorrhoids, innapropriate self disclosure to extreme.
> ...


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

This thread rocks.

I want to prove to ole that I'm good, the problem is I don't put flat on walls that see a lot of boom-botta-bing, except aura, that overpriced paint and primer finish in one.

Sent from my MB508 using Paint Talk


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

TJ Paint said:


> This thread rocks.
> 
> I want to prove to ole that I'm good, the problem is *I don't put flat on walls that see a lot of boom-botta-bing*, except aura, that overpriced paint and primer finish in one.
> 
> Sent from my MB508 using Paint Talk


 
an that's exactly why he got the job an you wouldnt have ..........listen the OP clearly stated in his post that he was in a situation facing time restraints so why all the chest thumping about what a PRO like yourself would do ? we all know that flat sucks for high traffic so really no need to go there.......sigh...frowny face ...exclamation point .....exclamation point


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## dosgris (Jan 6, 2008)

daArch said:


> full bodied primer (with stain blocker) and 2 coats of full bodied finish. Add some squirts of white to each.


Good tip there. Most primers allow up to 2 oz. colorant, so why not give the primer a good 2 oz. shot of white tint.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Ole34 said:


> an that's exactly why he got the job an you wouldnt have ..........listen the OP clearly stated in his post that he was in a situation facing time restraints so why all the chest thumping about what a PRO like yourself would do ? we all know that flat sucks for high traffic so really no need to go there.......sigh...frowny face ...exclamation point .....exclamation point


Well, I'm not trying to beat my chest. I've been around enough to have been in deals like this and found I'd rather pass on these then to make it work and then the customer isn't happy and I end up throwing away any profit I may have had.

If the customers expectation is beyond what I know can be delivered, who gets burnt? Not me anymore, hopefully.

Sent from my MB508 using Paint Talk


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

TJ Paint said:


> Well, I'm not trying to beat my chest. I've been around enough to have been in deals like this and found I'd rather pass on these then to make it work and then the customer isn't happy and I end up throwing away any profit I may have had.
> 
> If the customers expectation is beyond what I know can be delivered, who gets burnt? Not me anymore, hopefully.
> 
> Sent from my MB508 using Paint Talk


 

yup I know all about it but he asked a broad question an got his answer. what he chooses to do now is up to him .......(he should man up an bring in an extra guy an enamel that sucker prime+2 coats finish .........win win then)....:whistling2:.......but what do we know?


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## TERRY365PAINTER (Jul 26, 2009)

I wouldn't even think twice about it . 1 coat Behr 
Flat ultra and second in your finish sheen .


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## Ultimate (Mar 20, 2011)

*Magical Paint or Application for solution*

Time estimating between this option or another would be necessary but, cover, protect, spray backroll and spray again.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

daArch said:


> never hear of it. I knew a Dick Durant, but I don't think he's a paint manufacturer.
> 
> Where's it made? Merrimack Valley ?


 http://durantcorp.com/ Revere


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## ttd (Sep 30, 2010)

Behr Ultra Premium will do it! It just plain will.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

You can get a solid 1st coat with Premium Plus and the 2nd would be an easy coat no need for Ultra or Aura. That's easy what you are wanting to do.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

so to sum up this thread in real life it takes 2 coats an on the internet it takes 3 coats..........just keepin it real thats all :blink:


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Look at the bright side, if it takes 3 coats at least you'll know it's not the paint.


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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

SW super paint has great coverage. You may be able to do it in two coats but I'm guessing it will take 3. Behr premium plus ultra has awsome coverage too. You might have a better chance of getting complete coverage from Behr vs super paint.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

What if the existing black finish is a semigloss?

Sent from my MB508 using Paint Talk


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

do you mean like this glossy surface?




or this dark brown semigloss door with ULTRA white satin?




Its your best shot at a 2 coat scenario.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Jack, have those dried yet?

In my tests with Premium Plus Ultra, I found when wet, it looked like it would cover well. But as it dried, it looked like sh!t. And that was just a slight difference in whites - sorta like applying Linen White over White Dove.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

daArch said:


> Jack, have those dried yet?
> 
> In my tests with Premium Plus Ultra, I found when wet, it looked like it would cover well. But as it dried, it looked like sh!t. And that was just a slight difference in whites - sorta like applying Linen White over White Dove.


The red cup photo is wet and the brown door photo is dry. I never experienced any 1st coat dry of Premium Plus or ULTRA look like ****, very much the opposite. That 1st coat is almost always solid but not solid enough to call done.

Speaking of ****, here is BEHR ULTRA over some. The color is Benjamin Moore White Dove and this dry.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

jack pauhl said:


> the red cup photo is wet and the brown door photo is dry. I never experienced any 1st coat dry of premium plus or ultra look like ****, very much the opposite. That 1st coat is almost always solid but not solid enough to call done.
> 
> Speaking of ****, here is behr ultra over some. The color is benjamin moore white dove and this dry.
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jackpauhl/7507728252/


omfg


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## Ultimate (Mar 20, 2011)




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## rimce44 (Oct 26, 2011)

First coat then probably should be wallpaper


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