# Benjamin moore (advanced)



## swbaker1 (Aug 7, 2010)

We recently got a qt of this product for a china cabinet we were doing. According to the can it has a 16 hour dry time. I can tell you this product leaves a very nice finish. If it ever dries,does'nt need to be sanded and oh yeah you never plan on touching the doors and putting things back together. Our rep said sometimes it just takes awhile. Thta sounded like a really well researched answer before he came out to see us. Has anyone else used this product? And if so how was it for you?


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Have not tryed it yet, and I'm very intrested in your outcome. Please keep us posted.....


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Its basically the same dry time and re-coat time as Satin Impervo. Its a soap and water clean up alkyd. Dry time is going to be slow, just like oil. It wont yellow as much, and has very little odor. My guess is that when the time comes, this will be the replacement for Satin Impervo.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

NCPaint1 said:


> Its basically the same dry time and re-coat time as Satin Impervo. Its a soap and water clean up alkyd. Dry time is going to be slow, just like oil. It wont yellow as much, and has very little odor. My guess is that when the time comes, this will be the replacement for Satin Impervo.



I sure hope that time is far off in the future. I would hate to see the Satin Impervo disappear.

Pat


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

PatsPainting said:


> I sure hope that time is far off in the future. I would hate to see the Satin Impervo disappear.
> 
> Pat


Ditto. With the stricter VOC regulations, I would imagine that its only a matter of time.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> Its basically the same dry time and re-coat time as Satin Impervo. Its a soap and water clean up alkyd. Dry time is going to be slow, just like oil. It wont yellow as much, and has very little odor. My guess is that when the time comes, this will be the replacement for Satin Impervo.


Are you talking about Satin Impervo Oil Base ?


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

How can a waterborne have that long of a dry time? Is it just that it takes a really long time to get enough hardness to sand or it will roll off the substrate?


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## Ranger72 (Jul 3, 2010)

DeanV said:


> How can a waterborne have that long of a dry time? Is it just that it takes a really long time to get enough hardness to sand or it will roll off the substrate?


It is waterborne, but has a significant amount of alkyd particles suspended in it. That is where the drying time comes into play.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Ranger72 said:


> It is waterborne, but has a significant amount of alkyd particles suspended in it. That is where the drying time comes into play.


Water reduced alkyd. :thumbsup:


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> Are you talking about Satin Impervo Oil Base ?


Eventually I would say yes. All signs point to the elimination of the alkyds.


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## Ranger72 (Jul 3, 2010)

NCPaint1 said:


> Water reduced alkyd. :thumbsup:


I was close enough.


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## Rick the painter (Mar 30, 2009)

NCPaint1 said:


> Ditto. With the stricter VOC regulations, I would imagine that its only a matter of time.


 When was the last jump in killing our oil NC? (voc regs.)


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Rick the painter said:


> When was the last jump in killing our oil NC? (voc regs.)



Yep, at least from what I've heard.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

Our rep was in today, showing some samples of this stuff, freaking looked great. I'm excited to try this stuff. It will be the first full gloss enamel that we get to use that uses the gennix colorants. 

Rep said its interior right now, but they are testing it for exterior.

Pat


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## Rick the painter (Mar 30, 2009)

NCPaint1 said:


> Yep, at least from what I've heard.


 Im not being specific,was the last change in the amount of voc this year? When is the next regulation change,any idea? I hate finding out that stuff is discontinued when im at the paint counter!


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## Formulator (May 28, 2008)

DeanV said:


> How can a waterborne have that long of a dry time? Is it just that it takes a really long time to get enough hardness to sand or it will roll off the substrate?


 
The resin they use in that is a hybrid alkyd. It is a waterborne alkyd that is copolymerized with acrylic. Some can be copolymerized with urethanes for different properties.

You will probably notice that the "to touch" time is probably better than a traditional oil-based, but the curve of curing (or dry hard) is probably pretty similar after a day or two.

Stop thinking of waterborne alkyds as "just another water-based paint". Think of it more as a water clean up oil based paint.


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## Formulator (May 28, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> Water reduced alkyd. :thumbsup:


No, that is different. Water reducibles have been around for a long time and are notoriously unstable. This is a new technology that brings in acrylics, urethanes, etc... attached to the backbone of the alkyd.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

You know, I am probably the only one here that would like it, but I would love to see some detailed chemical reaction drawings show the structure of the molecules, how the acrylics and alkyds are bonded and how the film forms when they are cured. 

Ionic, covalent, double bonds, triple bonds, etc. I want to see chemically how it is similar or different from a traditional resin. Is is simply bonding -OH groups to an hydrocarbon chain that makes it water soluble? If so, how does this affect the final film from a chain that lacks these groups. Stuff like that.

I know, I am a geek. Oh well. At least that lets me fit in here.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

DeanV said:


> You know, I am probably the only one here that would like it, but I would love to see some detailed chemical reaction drawings show the structure of the molecules, how the acrylics and alkyds are bonded and how the film forms when they are cured.
> 
> Ionic, covalent, double bonds, triple bonds, etc. I want to see chemically how it is similar or different from a traditional resin. Is is simply bonding -OH groups to an hydrocarbon chain that makes it water soluble? If so, how does this affect the final film from a chain that lacks these groups. Stuff like that.
> 
> I know, I am a geek. Oh well. At least that lets me fit in here.


You know that's all top secret info. They could tell you how it all works, but then they'd have to kill you.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

I was in the paint store this morning and saw the new brochures on this product and was a little shocked when I opened it up and saw this. I really think they should do a little more research before the put in a picture into their brochures.

So many things wrong with this picture from crooked lines, guy just stopping in the middle of the wall and jumping on the base. not sure if he was brushing the wall or not. lol


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Not to mention he's got a weird grip on that brush.


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## Retired (Jul 27, 2010)

DeanV said:


> You know, I am probably the only one here that would like it, but I would love to see some detailed chemical reaction drawings show the structure of the molecules, how the acrylics and alkyds are bonded and how the film forms when they are cured.
> 
> Ionic, covalent, double bonds, triple bonds, etc. I want to see chemically how it is similar or different from a traditional resin. Is is simply bonding -OH groups to an hydrocarbon chain that makes it water soluble? If so, how does this affect the final film from a chain that lacks these groups. Stuff like that.
> 
> I know, I am a geek. Oh well. At least that lets me fit in here.


Try the sites for Dow, Rohm&Haas and maybe even Dupont. Try "Rhoplex WL-71" There might be a graphic example buried in there somewhere. Also if available take a look at the precursor to the many types of Rhoplex, Rhoplex 15.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> Not to mention he's got a weird grip on that brush.


Ummmm....... gym shoes? :jester:


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Ummmm....... gym shoes? :jester:


This is a very touchy topic on PT, I am of the work boot wearing type but we have gym shoe painters and croc wearers as well. Very controversial.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Workaholic said:


> This is a very touchy topic on PT, I am of the work boot wearing type but we have gym shoe painters and croc wearers as well. Very controversial.


Well here ya go.....


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

That stapler is going to fall.


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## Retired (Jul 27, 2010)

Workaholic said:


> That stapler is going to fall.


But will his arches?


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Not with those Red Wing boots.


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## VanDamme (Feb 13, 2010)

Workaholic said:


> This is a very touchy topic on PT, I am of the work boot wearing type but we have gym shoe painters and croc wearers as well. Very controversial.


Flippers & slippers baby! :thumbup:


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> Not with those Red Wing boots.


Carhart brand boots, but made by Red Wing........ :thumbsup:


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

PatsPainting said:


> I was in the paint store this morning and saw the new brochures on this product and was a little shocked when I opened it up and saw this. I really think they should do a little more research before the put in a picture into their brochures.
> 
> So many things wrong with this picture from crooked lines, guy just stopping in the middle of the wall and jumping on the base. not sure if he was brushing the wall or not. lol



poor guy, he assumed he would be modeling underwear on billboards lining Times Square in N.Y.C.

Keep your head up male model d00d, dreams do come true!

Why use a mix, when there are really great WB enamels on the market? 
I tried S.W.'s version and it was a huge suck. I will stick with S.W.B's Sologloss, because it sticks to trim.
Besides I use a WB enamel to eliminate offensive odors completely, this hybrid stuff still smells.

"But hey, it's an alkyd that cleans up with water Wise".

Maybe that would have sold me years ago as a slick gimmick, but there are better products now.
I tried the BM product at the contractor dinner, and it was nifty. Maybe now that I am required to spec BM on the build outs I will give if a proper shot.


That is if I can find it.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Carhart brand boots, but made by Red Wing........ :thumbsup:


Sorry, im on my Droid, was kinda hard to tell. If I were super cool like VD and had the Droid X, the huge screen and high-def images would have eliminated the error.


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## swbaker1 (Aug 7, 2010)

*Advanced Benny moore*

Well to reply to everyone the results of our use.
1.)It took 6 days to harden up to sand from being sprayed with hvlp

2.)It brushed on and dried faster that way for some reason it looked good sprayed or brushed 

3.) If they are going to replace impervo with this they better work out the hardening and drying kinks big time it was a real time waster that way. 

I wont use this product ever again our rep gave us 4 free gallons of aura to try and 2 gals of impervo to make up for the trouble.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

So basically what your saying is you had to wait 6 days to apply the second coat? Just wondering what the weather was like, how humid and stuff like that? that pretty amazing it would take that long before you could sand.

Pat


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

I'm going to pick up a quart and brush out some extra casing I have left over from a job. and see what the deal is with this stuff.

Pat


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## swbaker1 (Aug 7, 2010)

No I was able to second coat it the same day but after the 6th day it was still tacky. This was done indoors with the air conditioning running day and nite set at 70 the product would surface dry but just took for ever to harden when you sand it to early it would scracth like glass


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

swbaker1 said:


> No I was able to second coat it the same day but after the 6th day it was still tacky. This was done indoors with the air conditioning running day and nite set at 70 the product would surface dry but just took for ever to harden when you sand it to early it would scracth like glass


Awesome info, I wondered if it was just me having dry time issues. 2 weeks, 68degree interior, vacant.

Sheer terror of failure gripped my boo boo for 2 loooooooong weeks!!!


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I wonder if second coating on the same day was the problem since they specify 16 between coats? Maybe that slowed the cure of the bottom layer or something.


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## swbaker1 (Aug 7, 2010)

I was only able to 2nd coat one side the same day so it definetly wasnt the second coat that did it because they were both tacky.


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