# Seams opening up...



## DanielMDollaPainting

Hung some vinyl in two rooms the other day. The next day the seams opened up on the one room. I don't hang much paper but I've done plenty. This used to happen to my dad and I. What's up? 
The paper hung well and didn't bubble up. What do you guys do to prevent this?


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## chrisn

need much, much, like way, way more information 

if I listed all the questions, I would never get to work this morning:whistling2:


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## DanielMDollaPainting

I dipped it in the water tray. In the past I have pasted pre pasted paper by hand with a watered down paste on plaster walls and had no problems. Any time I've had seams open was dipping the paper and hanging on drywall.


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## Jmayspaint

What did you prep the drywall with?


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## BrushJockey

Jmayspaint said:


> What did you prep the drywall with?


And what kind of wall surface was it ( plaster- bare, painted , sheetrock- builders flat etc.

Then some detail on exactly what the paper mateial was- so far you said prepasted- vinyl coated, Thin? expanded alot when wet, etc.


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## chrisn

BrushJockey said:


> And what kind of wall surface was it ( plaster- bare, painted , sheetrock- builders flat etc.
> 
> Then some detail on exactly what the paper mateial was- so far you said prepasted- vinyl coated, Thin? expanded alot when wet, etc.[/QUOTE]
> 
> 
> exactly


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## Gwarel

DanielMDollaPainting said:


> I dipped it in the water tray.


There's your problem, or at least your first problem.


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## chrisn

Gwarel said:


> There's your problem, or at least your first problem.


the first problem probably is whatever is or is not on the wall itself:whistling2:

the water tray would not help:no:


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## simplycovered

Always have to sample test the paper before following through. I never trust prepasted, it's a pain and slows you up but you never know how old the glue was never mind if it is a good blend of paste, I often read the instructions but you know as a good guess rolling on glue to the wall ahead of you is a safe remedy, will it glue to the glue on the paper? ,,, oh probably. This papers are the worst though because it sticks with nearly friction alone on a plaster wall but the seams will be easy to lift ,a preglue is almost like a sizing, when ever I buy that drywall preseal/size stuff I always ignore the word sizing, that ain't sized, you have to put that on after and it's just weak glue, personally I like the really goey size, it just seems like size should be , like a preglue... I hope that ramble helps. Remember the old days when people would call for a paper job and it was a whole fifteen double rolls for the hall?, all I ever get are bathrooms and accent walls.


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## cdaniels

simplycovered said:


> Always have to sample test the paper before following through. I never trust prepasted, it's a pain and slows you up but you never know how old the glue was never mind if it is a good blend of paste, I often read the instructions but you know as a good guess rolling on glue to the wall ahead of you is a safe remedy, will it glue to the glue on the paper? ,,, oh probably. This papers are the worst though because it sticks with nearly friction alone on a plaster wall but the seams will be easy to lift ,a preglue is almost like a sizing, when ever I buy that drywall preseal/size stuff I always ignore the word sizing, that ain't sized, you have to put that on after and it's just weak glue, personally I like the really goey size, it just seems like size should be , like a preglue... I hope that ramble helps. Remember the old days when people would call for a paper job and it was a whole fifteen double rolls for the hall?, all I ever get are bathrooms and accent walls.


I got this Cris....It's paste and sizing is an atiquated term.


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## chrisn

cdaniels said:


> I got this Cris....It's paste and sizing is an atiquated term.


 
cHris with an h, and thanks:thumbsup:


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## Underdog

I size/seal with Draw Tite or equivalent.
I can usually save the job by using an acrylic paint on the seams. Something like 'Folk Art' from Hobby Lobby.
I mix the color, wet the seam, apply a little to the seam and wipe it down before it can dry on the paper.


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## Gwarel

simplycovered said:


> Always have to sample test the paper before following through. I never trust prepasted, it's a pain and slows you up but you never know how old the glue was never mind if it is a good blend of paste, I often read the instructions but you know as a good guess rolling on glue to the wall ahead of you is a safe remedy, will it glue to the glue on the paper? ,,, oh probably. This papers are the worst though because it sticks with nearly friction alone on a plaster wall but the seams will be easy to lift ,a preglue is almost like a sizing, when ever I buy that drywall preseal/size stuff I always ignore the word sizing, that ain't sized, you have to put that on after and it's just weak glue, personally I like the really goey size, it just seems like size should be , like a preglue... I hope that ramble helps. Remember the old days when people would call for a paper job and it was a whole fifteen double rolls for the hall?, all I ever get are bathrooms and accent walls.


You lost me......too much technical jargon.


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## DanielMDollaPainting

It's drywall. I applied guardz before hanging the paper.


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## DanielMDollaPainting

The paper is prepasted. It seemed to have ample paste and it it didn't curl up when I dipped it. It hung well. 
How do you generally hang prepasted paper if you don't dip it in a tray. I have added extra paste to prepasted by manually pasting it with a brush but I don't always do that. 
I've heard of guys who roll paste in the wall then hang the paper. I don't understand how this works cause Its hard enough to brush paste by hand on paper and get the paste into the backing everywhere without dry spots. You have to work it in.


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## DanielMDollaPainting

Underdog said:


> I size/seal with Draw Tite or equivalent.
> I can usually save the job by using an acrylic paint on the seams. Something like 'Folk Art' from Hobby Lobby.
> I mix the color, wet the seam, apply a little to the seam and wipe it down before it can dry on the paper.


My dad and I used pastel chalk o e time when a red paper opened up and the white wall stuck out like a sore thumb.


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## DanielMDollaPainting

BrushJockey said:


> And what kind of wall surface was it ( plaster- bare, painted , sheetrock- builders flat etc.
> 
> Then some detail on exactly what the paper mateial was- so far you said prepasted- vinyl coated, Thin? expanded alot when wet, etc.


It was typical thin vinyl. Swells up when wet. Sure


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## DanielMDollaPainting

The home owner didn't say anything and I got paid but I do have some high end grass cloth to hang on another job coming up. Farrow and Ball. I've never hung anything this expensive and I can't have any problems. Any pointers are appreciated. I haven't checked with Farrow and Ball but I assume clear vinyl paste?


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## BrushJockey

Grass is pretty easy to get on the wall- trimming it , particularly if it is really course- can be tricky.
If it is backed you can paste it on a table, if not, paste the section of the drop on the wall, and let it slowly down like a roller shade, gently pushing it in to the paste with a plastic smoother.
Use a very stiff 6" to crease the cuts, and a sharp snap off.
Plan your seams carefully- they will all show. Layout is everything.


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## chrisn

Gardz is considered to smooth to hang pe pasted on, which would cause the problem you are having. They say to prime over the gardz with a pigmented wall covering primer.


as to the F&B, be very, very careful and follow their directions:whistling2:


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## Colour Republic

DanielMDollaPainting said:


> The home owner didn't say anything and I got paid but I do have some high end grass cloth to hang on another job coming up. Farrow and Ball. I've never hung anything this expensive and I can't have any problems. Any pointers are appreciated. I haven't checked with Farrow and Ball but I assume clear vinyl paste?


Farrow and Ball Grass cloth???? Are you sure? I wasn't aware F&B did any grass cloths


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## DanielMDollaPainting

Thanks Chris. Pigmented wall covering primer? As in like a flat drywall primer to grab the paper. I thought guardz was a wallpaper primer but I can see what you mean by to slippery. 
I know the paint colors are F&B. I thought the paper was too. Not sure. I saw samples of the paper. It's not like long shaggy reeds or anything. I had to hang stuff like that once with my dad. This looks like regular paper but very refined and cloth like. Very neutral looking with no pattern or anything. More like small vertical lines. I assume it gets hand pasted but I have to find down the road.


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## Gwarel

Don't use a flat drywall primer. The paste will penetrate it and it can come loose too. Bullseye 123 works well for me. I've hung over Gardz with no problems. I think your problem was not using a watered down pre-mix to paste with. Use a roller, not a brush. I hope this helps.....


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## simplycovered

double paste the wall not the covering, don't get any glue on it when smoothing, I saw a guy paste a silk once and since he was using this new clear paste he's just slapping it all over the silk, see? it's clear no problem , yeah OK sure


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## chrisn

simplycovered said:


> double paste the wall not the covering, don't get any glue on it when smoothing, I saw a guy paste a silk once and since he was using this new clear paste he's just slapping it all over the silk, see? it's clear no problem , yeah OK sure


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## NorthEast

Maybe the seams were pressed a bit too hard during the hanging and too much paste was pushed out?

Maybe he was thinking Phillip Jeffries and not Farrow and Ball for the upcoming grasscloth. I know my customers always get those two names confused. :confused1:


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## chrisn

NorthEast said:


> Maybe the seams were pressed a bit too hard during the hanging and too much paste was pushed out?
> 
> Maybe he was thinking Phillip Jeffries and not Farrow and Ball for the upcoming grasscloth. I know my customers always get those two names confused. :confused1:


 
yes:thumbsup:


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## daArch

DanielMDollaPainting said:


> The paper is prepasted. It seemed to have ample paste and it it didn't curl up when I dipped it. It hung well.
> How do you generally hang prepasted paper if you don't dip it in a tray. I have added extra paste to prepasted by manually pasting it with a brush but I don't always do that.
> I've heard of guys who roll paste in the wall then hang the paper. I don't understand how this works cause Its hard enough to brush paste by hand on paper and get the paste into the backing everywhere without dry spots. You have to work it in.


I always test pre-pasted for amount of paste, too often it *seemed* to have enough or not enough and I was wrong. Once I determine the amount of paste, I apply 880 diluted to the correct proportion for that paper. Sometimes I paste it with just a wet roller.

Dipping troughs are for window boxes. IMO

As far as pasting the wall, there is a technique (developed before "paste the wall" non-wovens) where some papers needed a little extra grab at the seams. We would roll the wall at seam locations with paste and let tack up. The term is called "velcro-ing"




DanielMDollaPainting said:


> The home owner didn't say anything and I got paid but I do have some high end grass cloth to hang on another job coming up. Farrow and Ball. I've never hung anything this expensive and I can't have any problems. Any pointers are appreciated. I haven't checked with Farrow and Ball but I assume clear vinyl paste?


By what I am reading of your problems with this pre-pasted, I am not sure you are quite ready for grass or F&B. Both require a tuned sense of pasting, booking, and seaming. Not that you can't learn quickly enough, but one mistake with paste application could have you working a couple of days for free.


with both grass and F&B, you need the correct paste, the correct dilution (if any), correct timing for booking, and the correct technique for seaming. AND with most grasses, you need to hang clean - as in no paste on the grass. Oh sure, some grasses can withstand some blotting of a spot of paste, but forget wiping the surface clean.

For F&B I use 838, sometimes with a little 880 thrown in to extend the wet out. But don't go experimenting without understanding the characteristics of both pastes and the paper.


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## DanielMDollaPainting

F&B sent a page in the box stating about using a heavier paste based on their paper weight. Of course F&B says use their paste and the decorator says any will do. Lol. 
The paper for the bathroom isn't grass cloth. It's like regular paper. It is more refined than anything I've ever worked with. I haven't spoken to F&B yet but I am assuming hand pasting with clear paste. I am more concerned with what to pit on the wall for prep. The wall has drywall primer on it now. Like I stated, I had problems with the seams opening on the last job I did hanging over Guardz. Thanks for the input Arch.


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## DanielMDollaPainting

I'm guessing that not hand pasting or adding more paste was more the problem than the Guardz on the last job.


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## daArch

Like many others, i feel Gardz is too slick, although I have hung on it successfully.

I love Wallpaper Prep Coat










by a Canadian company, Swing.

I am lucky in that enough hangers use it around here that a local Mom & Pop stocks it. If no one in your area carries it, there is always Jamestown Distributors in RI. They ship.
http://www.jamestowndistributors.co...=Circa+1850+Wallpaper+Prep-Coat+Primer+Sealer

One of the top echelon hangers in the US and I agree that perhaps the best surface is Gardz (or Draw-tite) with Swing on top. 

If you use only Gardz and have issue with it's "slickness", try sizing the Gardz with a thin coat of 838. That should give the needed tack for the seams.


As for paste, Lee Joffa (American Distrib for Cole & Son) has told me that 838 is the suitable replacement for the typical Brit "tub paste". ALTHOUGH, if you have ever used the typical Brit "tub paste" you may not want to use our inferior pastes. I had the opportunity to use it on one small job, and I quickly fell in lust.


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## Underdog

I found this at SW for just over $20.00.
It's been working pretty good. I just hung a black shiny prepaste and the seams hugged the wall pretty good.

I've used about 7 gallons of the stuff.


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## chrisn

The Swing stuff is the best, if you can get it. If you do, make SURE it gets mixed well:whistling2:

Bill, knows what I mean


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## Gwarel

Interesting that R35 has changed their label to say that it is for porous surfaces and damaged drywall repair (re: Gardz). It used to be marketed as an adhesion promoting primer for non-porous surfaces, which it is.


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## Underdog

Gwarel said:


> Interesting that R35 has changed their label to say that it is for porous surfaces and damaged drywall repair (re: Gardz). It used to be marketed as an adhesion promoting primer for non-porous surfaces, which it is.


Thanks for that, I had showed a SW manager a gallon of Draw Tite and asked if they had anything similar.

I went on his say so and was pleased with the result even though it was unclear on the label.
The price difference was amazing, I had been paying over $30.00 a gallon for Draw Tite, I guess because I had gotten into a habit.
Used Rx35 again today with grasscloth and again was very pleased.


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## Underdog

I've never used Gardz, paperhangers like it?


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## Gwarel

I like it for jobs where I strip paper. Even after I clean the walls there is always some paste residue and the Gardz does a good job of sealing the wall for either paint or paper installation.


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## Underdog

Gwarel said:


> I like it for jobs where I strip paper. Even after I clean the walls there is always some paste residue and the Gardz does a good job of sealing the wall for either paint or paper installation.


 
I just went back and saw this:




chrisn said:


> Gardz is considered to smooth to hang pe pasted on, which would cause the problem you are having. They say to prime over the gardz with a pigmented wall covering primer.


 
Do you concur Gwarel?


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## daArch

Gwarel said:


> Interesting that R35 has changed their label to say that it is for porous surfaces and damaged drywall repair (re: Gardz). It used to be marketed as an adhesion promoting primer for non-porous surfaces, which it is.


Gwarel, this is NOT R-35, that was a big Z product that was one of those ones that causes PSSS (Peeling Sundburned Skin Syndrome) when stripping. You know, that rubbery coating that would peel off like sunburn skin - never having and end nor able to feather smooth. 

The product you showed is ROMAN'S R*x*35, A product that is supposed to compete with with gardz and Draw-tite as a dry wall repair .

I got a qt free and was not impressed (Sorry Jerry). Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Roman, the CEO, his wife, and all their products EXCEPT Rx35 (we all have bad days). In no way does my experience with this product diminish my loyalty and support of Roman Decorating Products.

I ma very happy you had good experiences with it.


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## daArch

chrisn said:


> The Swing stuff is the best, if you can get it. If you do, make SURE it gets mixed well:whistling2:
> 
> Bill, knows what I mean


OH yes I do :thumbup:

I have been heartened that for the past year or so, the silica stays in suspension once shaken better than that infamous lot that we all groused about so much.


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## daArch

Underdog said:


> I've never used Gardz, paperhangers like it?


MANY very competent hangers DO like it


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## Underdog

daArch said:


> The product you showed is ROMAN'S R*x*35, A product that is supposed to compete with with gardz and Draw-tite as a dry wall repair .
> 
> I got a qt free and was not impressed (Sorry Jerry). Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Roman, the CEO, his wife, and all their products EXCEPT Rx35 (we all have bad days). In no way does my experience with this product diminish my loyalty and support of Roman Decorating Products.
> 
> I ma very happy you had good experiences with it.


Oh great, now my confidence is shaken. 

But using a quart means you hung only one selection of wallpaper, and only part of a room at that.
No way you remember the source of the disappointment is there?

Like I said, I've hung over several gallons so for now I'm going to go against my base instinct to hang on your every word.


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## daArch

it was a 27" commercial vinyl. Just one small section of wall needed repair. I mudded and sanded. Primed with the Rx35. Hung with clay (Roman strippable). had to reposition the strip over the patched/Rx35'ed area. The Rx35 had rewet and peeled off the mudded patch. 

perhaps on primed and sealed surface it reacts differently, but the reason I use gardz/Draw-Tite is to seal patched areas. I was hoping the Rx35 had the same sealing capabilities. 

OH, and don't read into this that Swing's Wallpaper Prep Coat is suitable for priming-sealing. It says it is on the label, but it isn't really. For small little areas it will suffice, but I would not trust it on anything over 6" x 6"


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## Underdog

daArch said:


> it was a 27" commercial vinyl. Just one small section of wall needed repair. I mudded and sanded. Primed with the Rx35. Hung with clay (Roman strippable). had to reposition the strip over the patched/Rx35'ed area. The Rx35 had rewet and peeled off the mudded patch.
> 
> perhaps on primed and sealed surface it reacts differently, but the reason I use gardz/Draw-Tite is to seal patched areas. I was hoping the Rx35 had the same sealing capabilities.
> 
> OH, and don't read into this that Swing's Wallpaper Prep Coat is suitable for priming-sealing. It says it is on the label, but it isn't really. For small little areas it will suffice, but I would not trust it on anything over 6" x 6"


This is very helpful, thanks a lot!!


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## chrisn

daArch said:


> it was a 27" commercial vinyl. Just one small section of wall needed repair. I mudded and sanded. Primed with the Rx35. Hung with clay (Roman strippable). had to reposition the strip over the patched/Rx35'ed area. The Rx35 had rewet and peeled off the mudded patch.
> 
> perhaps on primed and sealed surface it reacts differently, but the reason I use gardz/Draw-Tite is to seal patched areas. I was hoping the Rx35 had the same sealing capabilities.
> 
> OH, and don't read into this that Swing's Wallpaper Prep Coat is suitable for priming-sealing. It says it is on the label, but it isn't really. For small little areas it will suffice, but I would not trust it on anything over 6" x 6"


 
did you let the rx35 dry over night?


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## DMWalls

I believe that R-35 and Rx-35 are both Roman products. Hence the R in the name. R-35 is a wallcovering primer that is promoted as a product that can be applied over almost any surface including glass and ceramic. 
I agree with Bill and prefer other products. One thing I found when I used the sample of Rx-35 I received is that it will re-wet. I have not had that problem with Gardz.


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## daArch

DMWalls said:


> I believe that R-35 and Rx-35 are both Roman products. Hence the R in the name. R-35 is a wallcovering primer that is promoted as a product that can be applied over almost any surface including glass and ceramic.
> I agree with Bill and prefer other products. One thing I found when I used the sample of Rx-35 I received is that it will re-wet. I have not had that problem with Gardz.


You're right, R-35 is a Roman product. It's such crap, my love for Roman blocked my memory. 

I stand corrected


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## daArch

chrisn said:


> did you let the rx35 dry over night?


not overnight, but for a couple of hours, similar to what I do with Gardz. It was definitely dry to the touch.

here is the drying instructions from their product data sheet:



> Drying Time: Rx-35™ is dry and ready to paint or hang over
> in one and a half hours. It is dry to the touch in one hour. Low
> temperature, high humidity and poor ventilation will slow down
> the drying process. If applying over new drywall or sealed
> surfaces, the drying time may be extended.


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## chrisn

Wellllll, you know they lie:yes:


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## Underdog

DMWalls said:


> I agree with Bill and prefer other products. One thing I found when I used the sample of Rx-35 I received is that it will re-wet. I have not had that problem with Gardz.


 


daArch said:


> You're right, R-35 is a Roman product. It's such crap, my love for Roman blocked my memory.
> 
> I stand corrected


 
But it's only $20.00


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## daArch

DMWalls said:


> I agree with Bill and prefer other products. One thing I found when I used the sample of Rx-35 I received is that it will re-wet. I have not had that problem with Gardz.



So do any of the NoCals use it? I don't think I've heard of anyone back here who do. 

BTW, the WW just asked me about you guys last week, obviously she sends her love . . . as do I.


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## Gwarel

I found two cans and sure enough the labels had different product codes. The green one is similar to the one in the other post and the product is called Pro-999 instead of Pro-935. The 935 I purchased from SW and the 999 was bought and used by an paint contractor for me on a job that I did over paneling. He asked what to use and I told him to get the R35 from SW and that product is what they sold him. I never even noticed that it had a different number.That job was a success and the 999 did the same thing as the 935. It dried with tack and held 54" vwc using 880 paste. I put a sample of both on a 5 gallon bucket lid a few hours ago and when they dried I cannot tell the difference. I do recommend a 24 hr cure time just to be safe. I've always had good success with R35, I use it a lot on outside corners when hanging 54" materials to give me some extra grip. As far as using it for damaged sheetrock I have no idea how it works, I'll stick with the Gardz for that.


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## Underdog

Gwarel said:


> . I do recommend a 24 hr cure time just to be safe. I've always had good success with R35, I use it a lot on outside corners when hanging 54" materials to give me some extra grip. As far as using it for damaged sheetrock I have no idea how it works, I'll stick with the Gardz for that.


I can breathe again, thanks for that, I will have to check out that Gardz stuff though.


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## chrisn

the RX-35 is Gardz like, with a lot of other crap added, very sticky, but it will sort of act like Gardz on torn drywall
me? I stick with the Gardz or better yet Draw tite


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## daArch

chrisn said:


> I *stick* with the Gardz or better yet Draw tite


please note Chris' purposeful choice of words :thumbup:


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## DMWalls

I'm not aware of anyone here that uses Rx-35 on a regular basis. In my opinion Gardz is superior to it. One positive for Rx-35 is it does not have the odor of Gardz. If you don't care about rewetting and the odor of Gardz might be offensive to occupants I would use the Rx-35.
Bill, Give our best to the WW and Jake. You have an open invite to come visit any time.


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## chrisn

daArch said:


> please note Chris' purposeful choice of words :thumbup:


 
I have to admit, it was not intensional


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## daArch

chrisn said:


> I have to admit, it was not intensional


First rule of the internet - take the glory. When it's good it's ALWAYS intentional. :thumbup:


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## daArch

DMWalls said:


> Bill, Give our best to the WW and Jake. You have an open invite to come visit any time.



thanks.

One area we are really focused on for an EXTENDED vacation is The Bay on up to Puget. I have this thought that SOMEWHERE along those miles must be the perfect retirement spot.

maybe get a few retired hangers and set up an old fashioned (yet aging) hippie commune (without that commie sharing crap  :no


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## chrisn

daArch said:


> thanks.
> 
> One area we are really focused on for an EXTENDED vacation is The Bay on up to Puget. I have this thought that SOMEWHERE along those miles must be the perfect retirement spot.
> 
> maybe get a few retired hangers and set up an old fashioned (yet aging) hippie commune (without that commie sharing crap  :no


 
I'm in:thumbup:


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## DMWalls

I like your thinking Bill. Let us know when your coming and we can go "Commune" shopping together. If we had a little land we could supplement our income as farmers. Northern Calif. is well known as an ideal area for growing one very lucrative herb.


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## daArch

DMWalls said:


> I like your thinking Bill. Let us know when your coming and we can go "Commune" shopping together. If we had a little land we could supplement our income as farmers. Northern Calif. is well known as an ideal area for growing one very lucrative herb.


I'd LOVE to see their "business model"

Ah . . . .I forgot.


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## DanielMDollaPainting

Thanks so much for the input guys. Learning a lot here. I'll be hanging the F&B on new drywall. My plan was to prime with guardz. I have used the Roman wall prep stuff in the past that applies like guardz but stays tacky. Would you guys recommend that over guardz? I'll be hand pasting this. I am chalking up my seams opening up in the past with dipping prepasted in stead if hand pasting with extra diluted paste. It only happened when I dipped only. 
F&B recommends there paste or a paste suitable to hang paper of more than 140 gsm weight. Not sure what that means. What similar Roman product should I use?


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## daArch

DanielMDollaPainting said:


> Thanks so much for the input guys. Learning a lot here. I'll be hanging the F&B on new drywall. My plan was to prime with guardz. I have used the Roman wall prep stuff in the past that applies like guardz but stays tacky. Would you guys recommend that over guardz? I'll be hand pasting this. I am chalking up my seams opening up in the past with dipping prepasted in stead if hand pasting with extra diluted paste. It only happened when I dipped only.
> F&B recommends there paste or a paste suitable to hang paper of more than 140 gsm weight. Not sure what that means. What similar Roman product should I use?


I would apply TWO coats of Gardz, just to make sure it's completely coated.

I have no experience with Rx-35 on gardz, can not advise, just hope they have a better compatibility than Jerry Russo (Roman CEO) had with Jack Ford (previous sales hound for the Big Z) :whistling2: :thumbsup: 

I will keep recommending Swing's Wallpaper Prep Coat until you all ride me out of town on a rail - tarred and feathered. 

as far as paste. Roman Pro 838 is now my paste of choice for brit pulps.

BTW, which F&B is it ?

booking time is fairly critical to reach proper expansion but not so long the substrate starts turning into snot and not trimming well even with a brand new blade. NO, I do not have the exact time in my notes.


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## DanielMDollaPainting

I have the paper already. Not sure what type it is. I'll have to get the number from the GC if they have it. I'll get back to you on that. Thanks for the tip on the soak time. I'm assuming let it sit for about two minutes and hang it. I guess unlike vinyl, the face doesn't have much strength to it.


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## chrisn

DanielMDollaPainting said:


> I have the paper already. Not sure what type it is. I'll have to get the number from the GC if they have it. I'll get back to you on that. Thanks for the tip on the soak time. I'm assuming let it sit for about two minutes and hang it. I guess unlike vinyl, the face doesn't have much strength to it.


 
it should tell you that in the "instructions":whistling2:


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## daArch

chrisn said:


> it should tell you that in the "instructions":whistling2:


yes, it does say on most F&B instructions. A stripe I hung last spring said "approximately five minutes", but since we all use different pastes with different dilutions, the booking time will be different.


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