# Single Coat New Construction



## csbeepee (Jun 29, 2015)

Thank you for responding kindly... This is my first post on the site. 

I have a builder that I paint for who wants a SINGLE COAT on all surfaces interior. Trim is pre-primed MDF and walls are bare/raw texture. I've been arguing for a primer coat with no success. I am trying to figure out the best process for a one coat system. They spec low-grade paint (SW Solo Semi-gloss on trim, SW Contractors on walls). 

Our current process...

Before trim is installed, caulk all windows/tubs, wait 24 hours, mask windows, spray and backroll walls.
After trim is installed, pre-sand trim.
Caulk perimeter of trim (where trim meets drywall), wait for it to dry, cut in wall paint to trim.
Fill nail holes and outside corners of trim.
Sand
Caulk Interior trim
Mask off walls in order to spray trim.
Vacuum
Spray Trim, ONE COAT.

Most production I've been doing before this was a three coat system including one primer coat and two top-coats. I just can't seem to come to grips with my work not coming out the way I'd like it to. Any ideas/see any flaws in my process? I want to give them the best quality that I can... 

Other than the typical "run away from production" response (because I plan on keeping it going) do you have any pointers for me?

Thank you again for your responses.

Cheers!


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

You don't have to run away from production. There's plenty of money to be made in production work. The systems you've listed almost looks like you took them right from one of my recent posts, so I clearly have nothing bad to say about them either. What I WILL say, is you should run away from this GC. Your name is on that paint-job. You're the one who'll be getting called back to answer as to why touch-ups won't blend, why the sanded marks on the trim can still be seen through the one coat of finish, why maybe your wood filler flashed, why the walls have some shiny spots and some dull spots, do you want me to continue?

Working for this kind of guy is setting yourself up for failure. He keeps his margins, you get a bad rap and loose your shirt in the process. What benefit is there in it for you?


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Back in the day when we did new construction in PA that's how everyone did it with the exception of the trim. We always did the trim 2 coats if it were painted. Most of the time it was stained trim and would get 2 coats of polly. 

The walls were one coat of SW masterhide. You'd fog in the metal corners the spray and back roll one coat. One big draw back is that touchups dont blend well at all. So at the end we would be rolling just about every wall corner to corner pretty much giving it a second coat anyway. 

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## Seth The Painter (Jun 24, 2015)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> You don't have to run away from production. There's plenty of money to be made in production work. The systems you've listed almost looks like you took them right from one of my recent posts, so I clearly have nothing bad to say about them either. What I WILL say, is you should run away from this GC. Your name is on that paint-job. You're the one who'll be getting called back to answer as to why touch-ups won't blend, why the sanded marks on the trim can still be seen through the one coat of finish, why maybe your wood filler flashed, why the walls have some shiny spots and some dull spots, do you want me to continue?
> 
> Working for this kind of guy is setting yourself up for failure. He keeps his margins, you get a bad rap and loose your shirt in the process. What benefit is there in it for you?


Well put. I'd tell this guy he's out of his mind and keep it moving. Some of these builders will suck the life out of you if you let them. Find a new gig. Put in your 2 weeks. Never look back.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

We don't let the builders dictate our coating system. 

Prime all pre primed wood, 2 coats finish ceiling, walls and trim. No if's and's or but's. We wont take a job that requires less.

A HO is a different story. We will one coat if they ask. NC no 2 coats is a must to cover properly.

There are way to many builders that make the painter look like crap by choosing 1 coat instead of 2.


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## racx (May 2, 2015)

Everything mention above spot on. The only thing I want to add is this I do retail and even a Tractor Supply or Harbor freight store specs prime and 2 top coats. I think the 100's years of coating development serves better than his hacks to make money. Ask him if he would frame his load bearing walls 32" oc. I've delt with guys like this and it boils my blood. Rant over.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Tell the GC "hello" from Bill.

Actually, don't.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Back in the day when we did new construction in PA that's how everyone did it with the exception of the trim. We always did the trim 2 coats if it were painted. Most of the time it was stained trim and would get 2 coats of polly. The walls were one coat of SW masterhide. You'd fog in the metal corners the spray and back roll one coat. One big draw back is that touchups dont blend well at all. So at the end we would be rolling just about every wall corner to corner pretty much giving it a second coat anyway. Sent from my LG-H810 using Tapatalk











Just a pic and I don't know where it is but it could be any one of thousands of developments around here.
This paint job and the OP's is pretty much what they get. And have been getting for as long as I've been around, 30 years?
It is what it is. They don't get there is no market for them to get a custom paint job. Take it or leave it.


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

For NC you need to 1 coat prime and 1 coat paint (spray applied). Done.

As for the base. Prep, prime and paint. Done.

Tip. Do base first. Mask off with brown paper and tape.


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## radio11 (Aug 14, 2015)

Don't really like the saying, but "It is what it is". New construction at lower to mid-level price points often get this level painting. Also why, when you do the first repaint, it's difficult to get a fully-loaded roller to go from the base to the ceiling without redipping. It sucks in the product and more gallons than normal is needed. 


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## robladd (Nov 22, 2010)

Back in my tract days which is about 22 years now we used Old Quaker, Dunn Edwards & Frazee most of the time. Every now and then SW, Scotch which is a 3M product or 1 of the many paints that fell under the ICI corporate take over.
Sinclair, Decratrend & Fuller O'Brian which became Glidden in the short term but now is PPG "Go Figure". Any of above said paints pre 93' could cover walls and exteriors 1 coat.

Today the above paints have been regulated heavily by EPA and re formulated to
Satisfy a greener Architectual and Commercial Industry. Even Automotive has come a long way to go greener.

Marine & Industrial has not changed that much but has done what they need to do to go WB where they can.

I don't know of any paints that I would consider 1 coat coverage for NC today. In 06 I worked in Houston as a Glazer on some Hospitals and the PC's used Frazee. It was like watered down garbage 3 & 4 coats later they could achieve an acceptable result. Just my observation.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

robladd said:


> Back in my tract days which is about 22 years now we used Old Quaker, Dunn Edwards & Frazee most of the time. Every now and then SW, Scotch which is a 3M product or 1 of the many paints that fell under the ICI corporate take over. Sinclair, Decratrend & Fuller O'Brian which became Glidden in the short term but now is PPG "Go Figure". Any of above said paints pre 93' could cover walls and exteriors 1 coat. Today the above paints have been regulated heavily by EPA and re formulated to Satisfy a greener Architectual and Commercial Industry. Even Automotive has come a long way to go greener. Marine & Industrial has not changed that much but has done what they need to do to go WB where they can. I don't know of any paints that I would consider 1 coat coverage for NC today. In 06 I worked in Houston as a Glazer on some Hospitals and the PC's used Frazee. It was like watered down garbage 3 & 4 coats later they could achieve an acceptable result. Just my observation.


And I was surprised it covered so well. I got on a job for a bit that was akin to tract housing, they were using it, 
Builders solution? Or was it property solution? I forget. Not the kind of work I most do anymore, but one of them.
Sprayed and bankrolled the flat it covered good. And touched up good. Cheap too from what I understand.
But it was odd, the body of it, the paint, it kinda was like a Dryfall, it wanted to be sprayed. But for that kinda work it was great for that. Solid. Sprayed and bankrolled. And dead flat so it touched up well.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

radio11 said:


> Don't really like the saying, but "It is what it is". New construction at lower to mid-level price points often get this level painting. Also why, when you do the first repaint, it's difficult to get a fully-loaded roller to go from the base to the ceiling without redipping. It sucks in the product and more gallons than normal is needed. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


But hold on. I know people doing these, here go shoppinghttps://www.tollbrothers.com/luxury-homes/Pennsylvania
Mid to low level? Haha not for me. Somebody maybe not me.
They get the same job. I know they do. Know people doing em.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

Up there^^^^^
Don't let the custom colored and decorated 'models' fool you. Just one unit of each model in the development. To show. And to take pics like these. The rest are the same job as is outlined in posts on this thread. The price of the home does not matter a little bit


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Oden said:


> And I was surprised it covered so well. I got on a job for a bit that was akin to tract housing, they were using it,
> Builders solution? Or was it property solution? I forget. Not the kind of work I most do anymore, but one of them.
> Sprayed and bankrolled the flat it covered good. And touched up good. Cheap too from what I understand.
> But it was odd, the body of it, the paint, it kinda was like a Dryfall, it wanted to be sprayed. But for that kinda work it was great for that. Solid. Sprayed and bankrolled. And dead flat so it touched up well.


Around here they use SW Painters Edge which was an old Duron product. I see tons of the stuff being hauled out of my local SW everyday. I'm still waiting to see a gallon of primer go along with it. 

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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Around here they use SW Painters Edge which was an old Duron product. I see tons of the stuff being hauled out of my local SW everyday. I'm still waiting to see a gallon of primer go along with it. Sent from my LG-H810 using Tapatalk


Bingo
That was it


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## radio11 (Aug 14, 2015)

Just got to make it 365 days then the builder is off the hook. 


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Around here they use SW Painters Edge which was an old Duron product. I see tons of the stuff being hauled out of my local SW everyday. I'm still waiting to see a gallon of primer go along with it.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H810 using Tapatalk


We used a ton of SW Builders Solution, primed with a Devoe product bought elsewhere.


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## csbeepee (Jun 29, 2015)

Thank you guys for the replies! You've pretty much told me what I was thinking about the whole process... I've been super frustrated as a new company trying to make a name for myself in the area and don't want to leave a **** job with my name on it. I will be weaning off the builder throughout winter and hit the ground running next spring in the Repaint market.

The one positive thing I have to say is this. They are ecstatic over our work and we have become the primary painter (there is only one other painter doing one house per month with them) for their housing tracts. I am thinking of keeping a production crew around to keep money rolling in. The more business I do with them, the more they respect my opinion and have already hinted at the possibility of adding a primer coat.

Now that I have a good NC reference, I can start looking for new builders who will allow me to put on a quality finish. 

Thank you again!


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## csbeepee (Jun 29, 2015)

In case you were wondering, this builder is having us use Contractors satin (which turns out like a flat on unprimed texture) on walls and Solo on trim. Ceilings are same color/sheen as walls. 

It's a pretty easy gig and they keep us busy. Hard to turn down easy money...


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Old Quaker Isoflat. Back in the early nineties they were selling it for $4.25 a gallon in SoCal. They would spray one coat and backroll it. Covered like crazy. Fully "cured" (and i use that term very loosely!) it would wipe off the wall with a wet washcloth. The homeowners wouldn't paint their nice new house for at least a year, so when they repainted and got less then 100 square feet per gallon and they realized what crappy paint came with the house, it was to late to even complain about it. Most of the time if they didn't use a primer they would end up putting 3-4 coats on if they wanted any kind of sheen. Not a damn thing has changed. And I doubt if those construction grade paints have gotten any better since then!


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

csbeepee said:


> In case you were wondering, this builder is having us use Contractors satin (which turns out like a flat on unprimed texture) on walls and Solo on trim. Ceilings are same color/sheen as walls.
> 
> It's a pretty easy gig and they keep us busy. Hard to turn down easy money...


I have to wonder what's gonna happen when it's time to touch up??


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Gough said:


> I have to wonder what's gonna happen when it's time to touch up??


it won't touch up and guess what? Free coat of paint! Woo Hoo!


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## csbeepee (Jun 29, 2015)

When it comes time to touch-up, I've already explained the issue and they told me to proceed against my recommendation. I will not paint walls for free. I fly invoices for anything outside of "normal" touch-up.


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## Phinnster (Feb 20, 2013)

Gross


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

csbeepee said:


> In case you were wondering, this builder is having us use Contractors satin (which turns out like a flat on unprimed texture) on walls and Solo on trim. Ceilings are same color/sheen as walls.
> 
> It's a pretty easy gig and they keep us busy. Hard to turn down easy money...


 Either your builder is new ( a seasoned builder knows the pitfalls all too well), or has very low standards. I wouldn't want my name anywhere near it. But, work is work...gotta feed the family. If you've done your due diligence and given him your professional take on things and he still insists on 1 coat then give him what he wants. Make it very clear in the contract that you are not held responsible for anything beyond 1 coat. Also make it clear in your contract that there is to be no other trade activity on interior spaces while painting is in production. And bring your change orders to the job when he calls you back for punch. good luck with it.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

The challenge here is to make one coat look and perform its best. 

When I was working in FL some guys were using a one coat system for NC from SW. I saw it done once. They sprayed on a really thick coat, like 8-10 mil wet, let it set up for a few minutes and back rolled. Worked good for what it was. DFT is what counts anyways.


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## csbeepee (Jun 29, 2015)

Jmayspaint said:


> The challenge here is to make one coat look and perform its best.
> 
> When I was working in FL some guys were using a one coat system for NC from SW. I saw it done once. They sprayed on a really thick coat, like 8-10 mil wet, let it set up for a few minutes and back rolled. Worked good for what it was. DFT is what counts anyways.


That's basically what we're doing. It took one house to get it figured out. First one was flashing all over the place!

The builder has been doing this since 1989. I've talked with the owner of the company and he stated that they've been doing nearly the same process since then and "it worked for my predecessors so it should work for me." He is young but smart. He needs to get off his high horse and take a look at things on ground level. I hope I can convince him to do so...


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

csbeepee said:


> When it comes time to touch-up, I've already explained the issue and they told me to proceed against my recommendation. I will not paint walls for free. I fly invoices for anything outside of "normal" touch-up.


Good. I've seen way too many painters get screwed over come punch-out time because of the piss poor touch up issue. Gotta protect yourself!


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

PACman said:


> Good. I've seen way too many painters get screwed over come punch-out time because of the piss poor touch up issue. Gotta protect yourself!



Talk is cheap.
Not getting paid the final amount, because the GC has set the painter up to fail.
Even if it's in black and white writing, there's no way I would put myself at risk.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

WisePainter said:


> Talk is cheap.
> Not getting paid the final amount, because the GC has set the painter up to fail.
> Even if it's in black and white writing, there's no way I would put myself at risk.


That's true! I've seen it happen many times. Because no matter how cheap they want the paint job done if they can't sell the house because of a poor punch-out on the paint, it is the painter they will blame. And then they will expect them to fix it before they pay them. Which quite often means a free coat of paint on the painters nickel. Always get the scope of work in writing.

Also, don't expect the GC or the paint supplier to take the fall if their paint doesn't pass the punch. The paint was sold as being able to cover in one coat and no matter what the reason is, if you can't make it cover in one coat you are getting the blame.

There is always another sucker that thinks he can do the job cheaper and with the one coat they want, so they will force you to make it right or just move on to the next poor sap. Not all GC's are like this, but I would say most of them are.


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

PACman said:


> That's true! I've seen it happen many times. Because no matter how cheap they want the paint job done if they can't sell the house because of a poor punch-out on the paint, it is the painter they will blame. And then they will expect them to fix it before they pay them. Which quite often means a free coat of paint on the painters nickel. Always get the scope of work in writing.
> 
> Also, don't expect the GC or the paint supplier to take the fall if their paint doesn't pass the punch. The paint was sold as being able to cover in one coat and no matter what the reason is, if you can't make it cover in one coat you are getting the blame.
> 
> There is always another sucker that thinks he can do the job cheaper and with the one coat they want, so they will force you to make it right or just move on to the next poor sap. Not all GC's are like this, but I would say most of them are.



Fact.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

PACman said:


> Good. I've seen way too many painters get screwed over come punch-out time because of the piss poor touch up issue. Gotta protect yourself!


Not to mention having your named associated with such work. That doesn't seem like a good way to build a business.


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## csbeepee (Jun 29, 2015)

If I have a homeowner who wants a repaint, the most likely referral I will provide her will be a RR referral; Not RNC.

We do the absolute best job out of anyone on these single coats and our contract/scope outlines everything very clearly. 

Thank you again for your wise words. I've gotten some golden nuggets from this thread... I love how quick this community is to responding. You will be hearing from me more in the future. No doubt.

From here, I will continue to do our one coat "especial" and do it to our very best. My number one priority is to my crew who needs work this winter. I'll continue trying to talk myself into a better product with these guys since they've taken such good care of us and ride it out until we have enough RR to fill the schedule. If any builders question my quality, I can point them to any number of custom repaints that we've completed. 

Again, Thank you.:thumbup:


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

csbeepee said:


> If I have a homeowner who wants a repaint, the most likely referral I will provide her will be a RR referral; Not RNC.
> 
> :


This may be a matter of semantics, but I think contractors provide *references* to their potential clients, past clients and others provide *referrals*.

Our company lives by referrals; I can't remember when we last provided a reference. I think it's been at least 25 years.


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## csbeepee (Jun 29, 2015)

Gough said:


> This may be a matter of semantics, but I think contractors provide *references* to their potential clients, past clients and others provide *referrals*.
> 
> Our company lives by referrals; I can't remember when we last provided a reference. I think it's been at least 25 years.


I hear you loud and clear... Building a good base for repeat customers and referrals is crucial to growth. I'll take heed to your wisdom. Thanks!


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