# Testing for wax



## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Or some sort of house hold cleaner that would affect paint bonding

A project we are doing had a major failure.

Krud litter de-glosser
Stix
Top coat.

All came off in sheets except where the carpet was and inside closets.

I already sent the Stix to a lab to see if it is the cause of the failure.

Right now we are over 100 he's stripping all this paint off.

The HO thinks we are trying to screw them over which we are not.

I have it narrowed down to two possible causes.

Ben Moore rep was useless. Here use an oil primer, our Stix or any product would never fail.

If its because it fnour work no problem we will suck it up and get it fixed.

If I can prove it was some thing on the from theHO owes us a ton. If its BM our lawyer will go after them.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

If this is that trim you were talking about a while back, is there any chance you can pop a tiny piece off without destroying it and have it analyzed? Find out what, if anything is directly below the surface of all the stuff you put on it? No real point in repainting anything at this point without at least knowing the stuff's paintable.


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## pacific paint (Nov 21, 2015)

I'm not a big fan of Krud Kutter products at all, and de glossers. TSP yes, I have seen trim prepped with these products and masking tape wont stick to the surface ? I know a lot of people like and use them all the time with no problems but I have also seen failures using these type of products when the paint would have stuck better with out using them. The Stix data sheet has an out for anything that does not adhere. A test first and if in doubt sand the surface. This is a bad situation and wish you the best outcome. You did what you thought was the right thing to do hold your head high.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Pledge. Or the dreaded Murphy's oil soap. Acetone is the only thing that is really effective taking either one off, and nothing will stick to them. Or maybe some residual floor wax is on it.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

And tisk-tisk! Why you no use Gripcoat?


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## pacific paint (Nov 21, 2015)

Pledge is anti paint , I bet they Pledged them that would explain the closet part. Who is going to Pledge a closet. 
3M automotive wax and grease remover will remove It 
But Acetone is cheaper


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

PACman said:


> And tisk-tisk! Why you no use Gripcoat?


I'm not a fan of griper primers right now. Until I find out what cause this failure no more gripper or krud.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

PACman said:


> Pledge. Or the dreaded Murphy's oil soap. Acetone is the only thing that is really effective taking either one off, and nothing will stick to them. Or maybe some residual floor wax is on it.





pacific paint said:


> Pledge is anti paint , I bet they Pledged them that would explain the closet part. Who is going to Pledge a closet.
> 3M automotive wax and grease remover will remove It
> But Acetone is cheaper



I'm going to grab acetone tomorrow and give that a shot.

As for removing any trim right now that's a big no. If the HO continues with their we will sue you bs I will demand a few pieces be tested.
The HO has rented this house out for the last 30 yes to one lady. They said she was to poor to clean. Well that was the cleanest poor persons home I have ever been in.

I catch myself every so often cleaning and wiping the trim, some time pledge most times Murphys.


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## radio11 (Aug 14, 2015)

My first thought was also Pledge (or store brand knockoff). 


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

cdpainting said:


> I'm going to grab acetone tomorrow and give that a shot.
> 
> As for removing any trim right now that's a big no. If the HO continues with their we will sue you bs I will demand a few pieces be tested.
> The HO has rented this house out for the last 30 yes to one lady. They said she was to poor to clean. Well that was the cleanest poor persons home I have ever been in.
> ...


To poor to clean? That's frickin' poor!


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

PACman said:


> cdpainting said:
> 
> 
> > I'm going to grab acetone tomorrow and give that a shot.
> ...


Funny thing about these HO's is they are house flippers who after 3 yrs of trying sold their first million dollar home ( not very hard around here). Now they think they are super rich.


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## NACE (May 16, 2008)

PACman said:


> Pledge. Or the dreaded Murphy's oil soap. Acetone is the only thing that is really effective taking either one off, and nothing will stick to them. Or maybe some residual floor wax is on it.


Agree, the dreaded Murphys Oil. Always causes adhesion problems.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

NACE said:


> PACman said:
> 
> 
> > Pledge. Or the dreaded Murphy's oil soap. Acetone is the only thing that is really effective taking either one off, and nothing will stick to them. Or maybe some residual floor wax is on it.
> ...


When ever the HO asks us what we think it is we say either some sort of cleaner on thentrim or product failure. They always say no I know its not any type of cleaner.

Myself I'm ready to rip off some of.that trim and send it to a lab. See if they can tell what it is that's on the trim.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

This afternoon we did a scratch test. It scratches off some of the doors but not window casings or baseboards. 

This time we use BM oil based primer (don't ask me which one it was comped and I haven't looked at the label)


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## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

Help me understand how it could be the homeowners fault. Did they clean it after you started? I know cleaners can cause failure but if it was from years before you started its not really their fault how I see it but maybe I am misunderstanding.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

jacob33 said:


> Help me understand how it could be the homeowners fault. Did they clean it after you started? I know cleaners can cause failure but if it was from years before you started its not really their fault how I see it but maybe I am misunderstanding.


The HO slipped last night and we overheard her say she did clean all the wood work. But yet she denies it when we mention it.

All my years of painting I have never had a failure like this. Considering the place was lived in by a poor person who couldn't afford to clean that trim was in damn good shape and dust free.

So in other words the HO cleaned just before we started.


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## radio11 (Aug 14, 2015)

Based on evidence that you have posted, I'm leaning toward a homeowner problem--not a product failure. Of course your evidence, councilor, at this time is purely circumstantial. 


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

They could have used Murphy's oil soap 100 years ago and you would still be having problems. It has a longer half life then uranium 238.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

No offense. Doesnt matter if they cleaned with a polish or not. You are the painter. You are responsible to prep for new paint. Id love to tell you i never eat a job. It happens. Fix it and move on. I would have cleaned it down and sanded it up. Get some tooth. Not sanded it off just gotten the gloss off. Its painting 101. Sometimes we revert to our B and C+ game because of cost or laziness. Looks like you did and it bit you. Sorry to hear about it CD


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## Slopmeyer (Aug 2, 2009)

Paradigmzz said:


> No offense. Doesnt matter if they cleaned with a polish or not. You are the painter. You are responsible to prep for new paint. Id love to tell you i never eat a job. It happens. Fix it and move on. I would have cleaned it down and sanded it up. Get some tooth. Not sanded it off just gotten the gloss off. Its painting 101. Sometimes we revert to our B and C+ game because of cost or laziness. Looks like you did and it bit you. Sorry to hear about it CD


That's total BS. If you don't see anything that would lead you to believe something may be on the surface why would you go ape @#$% sanding it down? House flippers don't pay for top dollar so they dont get the ultra,super job. They want a quick in and out and barely will pay for that. 
Its easy to sit back in your easy chair and attempt to dictate the highest standards for the industry, but it doesn't always work out that way with the clients and what they think a job is worth. 

Dave fix whats wrong and move along


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Slopmeyer said:


> That's total BS. If you don't see anything that would lead you to believe something may be on the surface why would you go ape @#$% sanding it down? House flippers don't pay for top dollar so they dont get the ultra,super job. They want a quick in and out and barely will pay for that.
> Its easy to sit back in your easy chair and attempt to dictate the highest standards for the industry, but it doesn't always work out that way with the clients and what they think a job is worth.
> 
> Dave fix whats wrong and move along


No offence meant and dont give a rip if i made you feel all bubbly inside. And yes, as the painter and moreso as the business owner it is on you when you take on any job. Product failure- blame your rep. Proper prep... suck it up buttercup.

And i guaranty i know what the hell im talking about. I didnt say sand to bare. I did say sacrificial sand which should be any painters mantra "dull, dry and clean". 

And im definitely no armchair cowboy. The jobs i run would make your head explode.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

I hate to go against Dave but I sort of think that ultimately it is the painters responsibility to KNOW what it is he(or she) is painting and do so properly.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

chrisn said:


> I hate to go against Dave but I sort of think that ultimately it is the painters responsibility to KNOW what it is he(or she) is painting and do so properly.


All we can do is keep stripping the failing paint off. Should be done today.

Still. How the heck can you tell just by looking.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

cdpainting said:


> All we can do is keep stripping the failing paint off. Should be done today.
> 
> Still. How the heck can you tell just by looking.


You can't. But didn't you have that opportunity when you first looked at it?
I normally rub my hand over it to feel what I am going to paint and if it does not feel right, do some testing to see what might be on it .I was not there and your circumstances must have been different, that's why I said I hate to argue.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

chrisn said:


> cdpainting said:
> 
> 
> > All we can do is keep stripping the failing paint off. Should be done today.
> ...


We did hand rub most of the trim when we first looked at it but not before we painted white h was after the ho cleaned with some thing.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Dave, in no way am i trying to word it to blame you. Stuff happens, and mistakes get expensive. I totally feel for you. 99% of the time, normal is normal. Its the 1% that catches you off guard and makes you realize that procedures and protocols are necessary. Sometimes you get screwed no matter what you do. Ive taken some serious hits myself because i assumed things were normal and i didnt see the problems coming. Trim- ive come to the conclusion that i always clean and i always sand to avoid this very issue. And that conclusion is because ive been where you are multiple times. 99% of the time it may not be necessary but the 1% of the time it pops up youll never know because you safeguarded yourself from it happening again.

Especially running crews. They care less than you do. If you have the proper procedures you wont have to deal with the fallout of the 1% mystery issues.

Just my .02 cents.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

cdpainting said:


> The HO slipped last night and we overheard her say she did clean all the wood work. But yet she denies it when we mention it.
> 
> All my years of painting I have never had a failure like this. Considering the place was lived in by a poor person who couldn't afford to clean that trim was in damn good shape and dust free.
> 
> So in other words the HO cleaned just before we started.


I did a job a few years ago where nothing would bond to the door frames. Coverstain, bin, nothing. I even palm sanded with 100 grit paper, still no bonding.


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## Slopmeyer (Aug 2, 2009)

Paradigmzz said:


> No offence meant and dont give a rip if i made you feel all bubbly inside. And yes, as the painter and moreso as the business owner it is on you when you take on any job. Product failure- blame your rep. Proper prep... suck it up buttercup.
> 
> And i guaranty i know what the hell im talking about. I didnt say sand to bare. I did say sacrificial sand which should be any painters mantra "dull, dry and clean".
> 
> And im definitely no armchair cowboy. The jobs i run would make your head explode.


Your missing the point. Not all jobs are million dollar homes. Especially when dealing with house flippers. Get in get out. If theres no sign of a contaminated surface, then theres no inclination to stop and reevaluate your prep. Unless he sanded every groove and detail it probably wouldn't have avoided the peeling situation anyhow.
Sure the blame will fall on the painter, but as a painter or from a painters point of view he did what he thought was right. It could've happened to any of us. But Im sure with all your experience running jobs that would make my head spin you probably know that. Dude get over yourself, your a painter like everybody else


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Happened to me a few years ago. I tested some doors for oil at a house that was up for sale, but I didn't test all the doors. The few that I tested all came back latex. They all looked exactly the same so I prepped and piled on the paint.

Year later, I get a call from the woman who bought the house. Said there were a couple of doors peeling really badly. Turns out a few of the doors I hadn't tested were oil and I'd committed the painters greatest sin. Hoping to keep my reputation intact, I had to go back and sand the crap out of those doors, prime and repaint on my dime.

I told her I'd tested for oil, just not those ones I guess. She wanted me to redo all of them, which I eventually did when she got me to repaint the entire main floor which I got paid for.

It happens.

The whole time I was there, she tried to convert me to be a Jehovah's Witness.


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## radio11 (Aug 14, 2015)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Happened to me a few years ago. I tested some doors for oil at a house that was up for sale, but I didn't test all the doors. The few that I tested all came back latex. They all looked exactly the same so I prepped and piled on the paint.
> 
> Year later, I get a call from the woman who bought the house. Said there were a couple of doors peeling really badly. Turns out a few of the doors I hadn't tested were oil and I'd committed the painters greatest sin. Hoping to keep my reputation intact, I had to go back and sand the crap out of those doors, prime and repaint on my dime.
> 
> ...




That's funny right there...

Not the working for free part--the conversion part. To some (maybe most) religions, the whole world is their mission field. When I slip up and find myself in a similar situation, I'd almost rather be in a minefield--bunny hopping.


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## radio11 (Aug 14, 2015)

journeymanPainter said:


> I did a job a few years ago where nothing would bond to the door frames. Coverstain, bin, nothing. I even palm sanded with 100 grit paper, still no bonding.




Finish the story...


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

radio11 said:


> Finish the story...


Nothing bonded. Ended up finishing the frames to the best of our ability, told the owners to be careful around the frames(Reno to sell), and didn't hear anything back.

First I gave them a quick hit with 120 and painted with diamond semi, peeled off in sheets.
Sanded them down primed with cover stain, peeled off in sheets.
Sanded and primed with odorless, still peeled.
Palm sanded them twice with 100, primed with bin and still didn't bond.


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## pacific paint (Nov 21, 2015)

journeymanPainter said:


> Nothing bonded. Ended up finishing the frames to the best of our ability, told the owners to be careful around the frames(Reno to sell), and didn't hear anything back.
> 
> First I gave them a quick hit with 120 and painted with diamond semi, peeled off in sheets.
> Sanded them down primed with cover stain, peeled off in sheets.
> ...


Holy crap..... what a nightmare !


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Happened to me a few years ago. I tested some doors for oil at a house that was up for sale, but I didn't test all the doors. The few that I tested all came back latex. They all looked exactly the same so I prepped and piled on the paint.
> 
> Year later, I get a call from the woman who bought the house. Said there were a couple of doors peeling really badly. Turns out a few of the doors I hadn't tested were oil and I'd committed the painters greatest sin. Hoping to keep my reputation intact, I had to go back and sand the crap out of those doors, prime and repaint on my dime.
> 
> ...


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Paradigmzz said:


> Slopmeyer said:
> 
> 
> > That's total BS. If you don't see anything that would lead you to believe something may be on the surface why would you go ape @#$% sanding it down? House flippers don't pay for top dollar so they dont get the ultra,super job. They want a quick in and out and barely will pay for that.
> ...





Paradigmzz said:


> Dave, in no way am i trying to word it to blame you. Stuff happens, and mistakes get expensive. I totally feel for you. 99% of the time, normal is normal. Its the 1% that catches you off guard and makes you realize that procedures and protocols are necessary. Sometimes you get screwed no matter what you do. Ive taken some serious hits myself because i assumed things were normal and i didnt see the problems coming. Trim- ive come to the conclusion that i always clean and i always sand to avoid this very issue. And that conclusion is because ive been where you are multiple times. 99% of the time it may not be necessary but the 1% of the time it pops up youll never know because you safeguarded yourself from it happening again.
> 
> Especially running crews. They care less than you do. If you have the proper procedures you wont have to deal with the fallout of the 1% mystery issues.
> 
> Just my .02 cents.


Carly and I already agreed from now on we clean the trim no matter what.

All my years I haven't experienced a failure this bad. And then to be talk down to by these jerks. 300 years worth of experience has tried to help and she always says they don't know what they are talking about.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Had an interesting scenerio similar to your peeling issue. I refinished an existing bathroom trim in a bathroom reno with the new wood. Tested existing and it was latex. Paint failed. Prepped proper and failed. It was SW IncrediCoat. An obsolete product was incredibly tough. So tough infact, nothing sticks to it. Sometimes, no matter what you do you get screwed. 

And Sloppy master, i dont have time to paint anymore. I got 47 painters and 38 commercial drywallers who do it for me. I spend all my time keeping up with submittals and strategic planning to keep the Beast rolling. 

If anyone has any questions on IRS, payroll, WC or OCIP, cafeteria plans, ill be happy to tell you. I still remember my roots and what this Board had in developing my thought processes.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Hate it's happening to you, Dave. I'm just curious if the Stix primer acted normal in the application process. Often times surface contaminants cause the primer to fish-eye, separate, or dry extremely slow. 

Were there no indicators of a problem?


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Paradigmzz said:


> Had an interesting scenerio similar to your peeling issue. I refinished an existing bathroom trim in a bathroom reno with the new wood. Tested existing and it was latex. Paint failed. Prepped proper and failed. It was SW IncrediCoat. An obsolete product was incredibly tough. So tough infact, nothing sticks to it. Sometimes, no matter what you do you get screwed.
> 
> And Sloppy master, i dont have time to paint anymore. I got 47 painters and 38 commercial drywallers who do it for me. I spend all my time keeping up with submittals and strategic planning to keep the Beast rolling.
> 
> If anyone has any questions on IRS, payroll, WC or OCIP, cafeteria plans, ill be happy to tell you. I still remember my roots and what this Board had in developing my thought processes.


I remember IncrediCoat that stuff was fantastic. We used a ton of it on school hallways and classrooms. I didn't know it was a nightmare to repaint, prolly wouldn't have used it if that were the case. 
Sucks to be the ones who uncut my bids the following years and painted all that after me. 

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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Paradigmzz said:


> Had an interesting scenerio similar to your peeling issue. I refinished an existing bathroom trim in a bathroom reno with the new wood. Tested existing and it was latex. Paint failed. Prepped proper and failed. It was SW IncrediCoat. An obsolete product was incredibly tough. So tough infact, nothing sticks to it. Sometimes, no matter what you do you get screwed.
> 
> And Sloppy master, i dont have time to paint anymore. I got 47 painters and 38 commercial drywallers who do it for me. I spend all my time keeping up with submittals and strategic planning to keep the Beast rolling.
> 
> If anyone has any questions on IRS, payroll, WC or OCIP, cafeteria plans, ill be happy to tell you. I still remember my roots and what this Board had in developing my thought processes.


If I remember correctly, Incredicoat had generic Teflon in it. It was actually meant to be applied and NEVER recoated. Absolute fail that one!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

One of the insidious issues with the dreaded Murphy's oil soap is that after it dries for a couple of weeks there is almost no practical way to tell if it is there. You can't see it, since all the trim is covered with it. Unless someone tells you that it was applied back in 1923 there is actually no way to test for it short of taking the board off and lab testing it. Does that mean you should use acetone to wipe every single piece of trim to prep for painting? That's up to you guys. Murphy's is like a WWI era landmine. You don't know where it is, but when you find it, it still blows up in your face. Nasty stuff. The curse of furniture re-finishers everywhere.


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

PACman said:


> One of the insidious issues with the dreaded Murphy's oil soap is that after it dries for a couple of weeks there is almost no practical way to tell if it is there. You can't see it, since all the trim is covered with it. Unless someone tells you that it was applied back in 1923 there is actually no way to test for it short of taking the board off and lab testing it. Does that mean you should use acetone to wipe every single piece of trim to prep for painting? That's up to you guys. Murphy's is like a WWI era landmine. You don't know where it is, but when you find it, it still blows up in your face. Nasty stuff. The curse of furniture re-finishers everywhere.


Would lacquer thinner work? Never ran into the stuff.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

woodcoyote said:


> Would lacquer thinner work? Never ran into the stuff.


Varnish Makers' and Painters'' is our go-to solvent for this type of thing. With lacquer thinner, you run more risk of damaging the underlying coating.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

woodcoyote said:


> Would lacquer thinner work? Never ran into the stuff.


it should work. Most lacquer thinners have acetone in them.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Gough said:


> Varnish Makers' and Painters'' is our go-to solvent for this type of thing. With lacquer thinner, you run more risk of damaging the underlying coating.


Vm&p is a pretty standard cleaning solvent for this kind of thing. (well in some corners of the country anyway)
It has a pretty high solvent strength and drys without leaving a residue. In fact some companies repackage it as a "finish restorer" and charge 10 times per ounce for it. (Minwax*cough-cough*)


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

PACman said:


> Vm&p is a pretty standard cleaning solvent for this kind of thing. (well in some corners of the country anyway)
> It has a pretty high solvent strength and drys without leaving a residue. In fact some companies repackage it as a "finish restorer" and charge 10 times per ounce for it. (Minwax*cough-cough*)


So naphtha then? Interesting. I guess this Murphy soap stuff has a wax or something in it?

Good thing most of our old homes were built in the 40s and 50s. Never had to deal with this stuff.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

woodcoyote said:


> So naphtha then? Interesting. I guess this Murphy soap stuff has a wax or something in it?
> 
> Good thing most of our old homes were built in the 40s and 50s. Never had to deal with this stuff.


It's still out there! Lurking! There are some people that still use it to clean wood trim, even painted trim. My sister-in-law for one. I'm sure that it is more prevalent in certain areas of the country, but with pintrest and the like who knows until it rears it's ugly draconian face in your part of the country! It goes by other aliases as well, so beware!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Murphy's oil soap is a non-petroleum based, vegetable oil based soap. When the solvents in it dry, what you are left with is a fine film of vegetable oil. There are many products on the market that have varying amounts of Vegetable oil based soap in them which can leave this residue behind. Basically it is pretty much anything billed as a non-petroleum/environmentally safe/all natural cleaner.

Some of the more common aliases are;
minwax wood and cabinet cleaner (Formby's as well)
Liquid gold
Bona soap cleaner
Dr. Brunners magic soap
Pledge
several lemon oil or orange oil wood cleaners/restorers
Howard's Clean-a-finish
Guardsman wood cleaner
even the "as seen on TV" Amish milk wood cleaner

Some of them are worse then others, but Murphy's being the one with the highest concentration of vegetable oil soap in it is the worst.


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## AngieM (Apr 13, 2016)

I had a project a couple years ago painting oak trim. We sanded everything and used southwest builders. In all window sills we had wrinkling. I had my sw rep come out and went though all scenarios what could have happened. Murphy oil never was considered. I'm thinking maybe that was it.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Sanding it just smears it around and forces it into any pores or voids. I talked to an old school painter I know last night at Mcdonald's, and he suggested that you can take a clean,white rag and wipe the trim with acetone. If it has a buildup of Murphy's it will leave a slight amber colored residue on the rag. Unfortunately, some clear finishes also leave an amber color on the rag so it isn't 100% accurate. He did say that a good cleaning with liquid sander also helps remove it.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

PACman said:


> Sanding it just smears it around and forces it into any pores or voids. I talked to an old school painter I know last night at Mcdonald's, and he suggested that you can take a clean,white rag and wipe the trim with acetone. If it has a buildup of Murphy's it will leave a slight amber colored residue on the rag. Unfortunately, some clear finishes also leave an amber color on the rag so it isn't 100% accurate. He did say that a good cleaning with liquid sander also helps remove it.


First of all, I think it's sad that an old-school painter, with years of experience and generations of knowledge, ends up working at McDonald's.

The acetone wipe may be a reasonable test, even with false positives, but I shy away from using it as a degreasing solvent. First, it's more polar/hydrophilic than VM&P, but it also evaporates so quickly that I worry about leaving contaminants behind.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Gough said:


> First of all, I think it's sad that an old-school painter, with years of experience and generations of knowledge, ends up working at McDonald's.
> 
> The acetone wipe may be a reasonable test, even with false positives, but I shy away from using it as a degreasing solvent. First, it's more polar/hydrophilic than VM&P, but it also evaporates so quickly that I worry about leaving contaminants behind.


He wasn't working there. It's just where all the old farts hang out. Coffee refills are a quarter.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

PACman said:


> He wasn't working there. It's just where all the old farts hang out. Coffee refills are a quarter.


And some people say we don't need an "ironic" font....


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

Could you possibly tell with a tape test of the trim?

I just got done doing a quick job today and the lady cleaned the baseboard with some stuff. Floor soap or something, just that morning. Tape didn't want to stick. And I don't mean kinda in parts here and there, I mean not stick at all...like I hadn't even tried to put it on. 

Wiped it down and put some 2020 on it and finally got it to hold long enough to roll paint out.

Anyway was a thought I had, because I remembered this thread. Wondered if maybe a tape test to see how tape sticks would be a quick and general indication??

What are yalls thoughts?


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

PACman said:


> He wasn't working there. It's just where all the old farts hang out. Coffee refills are a quarter.


A lot of us here fit into that category, so watch it you young fart


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## AngieM (Apr 13, 2016)

I'm reviving this thread, because I have a job coming up painting oak trim. What is your (question to everyone) process and product for painting oak trim? 

Most importantly, what considerations should I keep in mind before starting? I'm concerned about Murphy's oil soap.


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

Clean with denatured then prep as usual. Make sure customer knows grain will show.


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## AngieM (Apr 13, 2016)

What is the option to fill the grain? I heard the only way was a lacquer undercoat. I'm not getting paid enough to go to that length on this job, but thought I'd get opinions on that.


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

There are products called grain fillers that do this, also brushing putty.


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## AngieM (Apr 13, 2016)

Last year sometime, my SW rep gave me test drive deal on their oil based , easy sand primer. I used it on a bunch of MDF , closet built ins. So I'm not sure how well it would mask grain. I'm going to oil prime this oak trim anyway, so I might try this route. I'll let you all know if it's the easy answer to grain problem.


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## AngieM (Apr 13, 2016)

Can Easy Sand Primer from SW go through my titan hvlp, or is it too heavy in solids?


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## AngieM (Apr 13, 2016)

Well, to answer my question on if Easy Sand Primer can go though my 95 Titan capsprayer ....yes, but not easily. I thought I thinned t enough but it apparently not. Either that, or I didn't have my air calibrated correctly. It came out of the gun in pulsing puffs of paint. 
Question: how do you measure the viscosity ? How thin, is thin enough?


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Paradigmzz said:


> No offense. Doesnt matter if they cleaned with a polish or not. You are the painter. You are responsible to prep for new paint. Id love to tell you i never eat a job. It happens. Fix it and move on. I would have cleaned it down and sanded it up. Get some tooth. Not sanded it off just gotten the gloss off. Its painting 101. Sometimes we revert to our B and C+ game because of cost or laziness. Looks like you did and it bit you. Sorry to hear about it CD


Between the time you look at a place and they sneak a cleaner in to clean the trim. Sorry there is no way of telling a cleaner was used. In fact we power sanded, dd glossed all trim only to have the ho wipe all the trim down again.

We have since finished this job. Had to sand all trim pretty much to bare wood.

We had paint reps out and a total of like 200 years experience trying to figure this out. We all came up with the trim was cleaned with some thing no one could detect.


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## AngieM (Apr 13, 2016)

Technogod said:


> You spray paint and you really don't have any idea about measuring viscosity and PDS?


Enlighten me


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## Chuck the painter (Sep 16, 2015)

Krud cutter has to be washed off with water. I prefer a mix of denatured alcohol and water applied with a Norton brown (or 3m) pad. Use paper towels to wipe down as rags often have traces of fabric softener in them and will leave streaks of wax on your surface.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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