# Replacing "Cover Stain"



## D&K Custom (Oct 10, 2014)

Hi folks, I'm looking for suggestions...
For years I have relied on Cover Stain for a variety of my priming needs, specifically painting over previously stained woodwork. It covers well, kills stains, and the sandability is excellent. The downfall is the odor (being an oil based) on big projects, and I pretty much refuse to spray this product. I know that water borne/latex primers have improved over the years but I'm old school and always trust the performance of the cover srain. Any suggestions on latex product that would come close or equivalent to my trusted oil primer in bonding, hiding, and sandability?? Thanks in advance -Dave


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

nope. they sure are trying hard in that dept but i haven't found anything that does the job as well and still hits all the marks. i gave up looking though so there is that factor...


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

lilpaintchic said:


> nope. they sure are trying hard in that dept but i haven't found anything that does the job as well and still hits all the marks. i gave up looking though so there is that factor...


I've tested just about everything in my Hillbilly paint lab and the only thing I have found that works as well is other oil based primer brands. Maybe try the low odor oil based Zinsser. I have had several painters tell me it works ok.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

PACman said:


> I've tested just about everything in my Hillbilly paint lab and the only thing I have found that works as well is other oil based primer brands. Maybe try the low odor oil based Zinsser. I have had several painters tell me it works ok.


i don't think they sand out as well...i haven't used a ton of it though. maybe some other folks have had better experiences with it.


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## dreamscapeptg (Jan 12, 2016)

I too have a great appreciation for cover stain but the smell sure is a bummer, I've not yet found a replacement and agree that the odourless versions of the oil primers that I've tried, especially cover stain, don't sand near as well. 

Not to mention that odourless cover stain still stinks enough that other trades will hate you...


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

D&K Custom said:


> Hi folks, I'm looking for suggestions...
> For years I have relied on Cover Stain for a variety of my priming needs, specifically painting over previously stained woodwork. It covers well, kills stains, and the sandability is excellent. The downfall is the odor (being an oil based) on big projects, and I pretty much refuse to spray this product. I know that water borne/latex primers have improved over the years but I'm old school and always trust the performance of the cover srain. *Any suggestions on latex product that would come close or equivalent to my trusted oil primer in bonding, hiding, and sandability??* Thanks in advance -Dave


In my experience water borne bonding primers are great at bonding but lousy at sealing stains.

BIN can check most of the boxes you list.

Or try some of the oil/alkyd primers specced for occupied spaces, like Insl-x Odor Less.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

I tried the low odour Zinsser oil primer. It still stunk, just not as bad. Seemed to dry pretty soft too, even with way more dry time than it needed.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Wildbill7145 said:


> I tried the low odour Zinsser oil primer. It still stunk, just not as bad. Seemed to dry pretty soft too, even with way more dry time than it needed.


I guess just screw it then! Should I stop selling it? Lol. (actually I don't sell any Zinsser products. Can't get a price lower then what I can buy it at Menard's for. Kind of tough to make a profit off of it that way!)

Have any of you tried one of the dual dispersion stain killers available? Cali has a good one. Doesn't sand particularly well though but it seals stains pretty well for a water clean-up low odor primer.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

how does it sand though...


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## DynaPLLC (Oct 25, 2013)

BIN smell disappears rather quickly. And it's a better primer than Coverstain.


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

I've never had a problem with 123 or XIM UMA bonding and sealing stains (occasionally I have to bust out a rattle can of oil/shellac for a bad stain). The downside is that they don't sand really well. Wet sanding and festool takes care of most of that problem, in my experience. 

It could be because I am coming at the problem backwards though. The painter I was trained by never used oil based products. When I started working for myself I tested them on cabinets to see if it made the finish better. But the terrible, lingering smell (in occupied homes) coupled with the fact that 99% of humans won't be able to tell the difference between a set primed with oil vs a set primed with acrylics moved me back to where I started. 

I have 4 gallons of cover stain sitting in my garage right now that will probably go bad before I use it again. I might just have to burn it up this year on an exterior so I don't waste it.


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## 804 Paint (Jan 31, 2014)

OK...I have to jump in here and ask about the "sandability" of Cover Stain. The handful of times I have used it on smooth enough a surface to warrant a sanding I was very disappointed. There certainly was no such thing as being able to sand it an hour later, and even 24 hours later I didn't find it very sandable...still kinda rolled up in the sandpaper. Never too powdery. In fact, I have had better luck sanding many waterborne primers, including Stix and SW's Extreme Bond.

So, I always use it for things like ceiling stains, rougher interior wood, all kitchen backsplashes...*ALL*, and the like. 

However, I am also interested in an OIL alternative to CS. A fast-drying oil for previously stained woodwork that really DOES sand nicely fairly quickly after application. Any suggestions? What's the fastest-drying Fresh Start and does it sand?

I have to say, that, regrettably, I'm in the camp of "nothing bonds better to oil than oil." In some areas it's not a big deal. But in high-contact areas such as casings, baseboards and cabinetry, I think I want oil. ESPECIALLY cabinetry...all those greasy fingers and cooking splatters. Yes, I clean and sand, but still. And I have TRIED all the new acrylics and I can scratch them off almost all of the time. The only exception IMO is BIN, *however*, BIN, being so brittle, seems more prone to chipping. There are a few items in my home I used BIN and now regret doing so.


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## Bfan781 (Apr 12, 2014)

We have tried a product called stix which is latex but it can still bleed through and we went back to the cover stain but it does then job better over stained/varnished woodwork.

Like the poster above mentioned, the order doesn't linger too long


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

Bfan781 said:


> We have tried a product called stix which is latex but it can still bleed through and we went back to the cover stain but it does then job better over stained/varnished woodwork.
> 
> Like the poster above mentioned, the order doesn't linger too long


Stix is a bonding primer and is not meant to function as a stain blocker.


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## Bfan781 (Apr 12, 2014)

Yeah that is what I was trying to say. We did a job that the HO wanted no oil. The rep mentioned stix as an alternative to the cover stain because it will bondto the poly/varnish. It can have ok results but no where as good as cover stain and the stain can/may bleed through. We stick soley to cover stain


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

Bfan781 said:


> Yeah that is what I was trying to say. We did a job that the HO wanted no oil. The rep mentioned stix as an alternative to the cover stain because it will bondto the poly/varnish. It can have ok results but no where as good as cover stain and the stain can/may bleed through. We stick soley to cover stain


Gotcha, I thought you were trying to use it for stain blocking. It will bond quite well.
Still nothing as reliable as oil or BIN for stained trim.


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## JakeTheAnchor (Feb 23, 2016)

Fun fact: Napa, CA..can only get quarts of cover stain. Gallons have to be bought from an outside store or ordered through another and delivered by local store!


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## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

We have the paint sensations added at paint store so it can be mechanical shaked. Works better that way it will help with the odor allot. I'm no fan of the heebie gebbies we get from CS but this isn't a water based stain killer ie sanding primer that works as well yet. I also add this to Advance as it has a lingering odor as well. Customers always ask wow that smells like my dryer sheets. It works not 100 percent but it works.


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## canopainting (Feb 12, 2013)

Try pigmented shellack, it dries fast, sticks well to a clean dry dull surface and sands great.


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## D&K Custom (Oct 10, 2014)

804 Paint said:


> OK...I have to jump in here and ask about the "sandability" of Cover Stain. The handful of times I have used it on smooth enough a surface to warrant a sanding I was very disappointed. There certainly was no such thing as being able to sand it an hour later, and even 24 hours later I didn't find it very sandable...still kinda rolled up in the sandpaper. Never too powdery. In fact, I have had better luck sanding many waterborne primers, including Stix and SW's Extreme Bond.
> 
> So, I always use it for things like ceiling stains, rougher interior wood, all kitchen backsplashes...*ALL*, and the like.
> 
> ...


Not sure we are talking about the same product. Cover Stain IS an oil based primer.


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## 804 Paint (Jan 31, 2014)

D&K Custom said:


> Not sure we are talking about the same product. Cover Stain IS an oil based primer.



What part of my post made you think I believe Coverstain to be a waterborne product??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

JakeTheAnchor said:


> Fun fact: Napa, CA..can only get quarts of cover stain. Gallons have to be bought from an outside store or ordered through another and delivered by local store!


That's the epa regulation for most of California. There are only (I think) 4 exempt counties and I happen to live in one of them. I can get almost anything I want regardless of VOC as long as my store can find someone that has shipping set up for California.


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