# First time spraying laquer need some help please :o)



## jayfunk (Dec 6, 2010)

Hey guys love the site and all the great info but cant find too much on lacquer spraying. Ive sprayed oil and latex lots and have done 8 years of lacquer prepping handrails, cabinets, trim etc but i have never actually sprayed the stuff myself. 
If one of you pros could please give me the rundown on how to set up my Graco 695 and what tip to use and anything special cleaning stuff or safety stuff thatd be so great id sure appreciate it. 
1) I have paint thinner in the lines now... do i flush it all with out with lacquer thinner and then start?
2) How about turning off a pilot light for water heater or something so I dont blow up the house?
3) What tip should I use?
4) Should I thin down the lacquer a little?
5) Do I flush out the machine with lots of lacquer thinner to clean it out and then go back to paint thinner?

Thats about it. I dont have much info yet on what lacquer specifically ill be using but can get that soon by sunday or monday. Also not sure yet if its clear or colored if that matters. This is my big chance to learn how to do this and get it right so the dood will give me more lacquer work in the future so I dont want to blow it. Ill be doing lots of research on the net too this weekend to be ready for next week. Thanks so much guys in advance.
Jay:thumbup:


----------



## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

If your rig has been used for paint, change run laq thinner thru until clean. Change all your filters, including intake screen. If you are using a hose that is old, get a new one. lacquer will loosen dried paint in lines and you will get flecks. (I keep dedicated rigs for clears.) 

Many types of lacquers, pre-cat and cat, reduction is matter of taste, dependent on ambient temps and spray techniques. Retarder to delay dry time, lacquer thinner to reduce viscosity. 
Small tip sizes FF x09 -x11, gun control, pressure and distance is a dial in technique. Laq dries quick, but rewetts well. Lap wet if your lapping, pressure as low as you can run. 

For god-sakes, dont spray around open flame, *and wear proper respirators.*


Flush out with laq. thinner completely, then store with min. spirits. 

Summer time factors:
-Dont shoot in high humidity or it will cloud.

-Dont shoot in direct sunlight, (high temps) or it will flash like the 4th of July.

Biggest advice for you, make sure your rig is pristine, or you will shoot flecks into your coat- and that, my friend, sucks.


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Dries really fast, so depending on what you are doing you may want to add an extender. 

Yes I would always reduce, sometimes as much as 50/50 depending on application and material. 

Make sure you are using the proper extender and thinners. 

Tip is dependant on what you are painting, and the desired finish.


----------



## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

shoot... 50/50? That's a bit thin, But Ill bite if this is what you do to mimmick a sanding sealer...

For those who dont know, retarder is your extender....


----------



## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

This reminds me. Shoot a sanding sealer, (vinyl sealer) for your first coat, this will seal the grain and give you a better surface to sand to get the smoothest finish possible.


----------



## jayfunk (Dec 6, 2010)

WOW GUYS THANKS!!
My rig has been kept very clean so flushing it out first I think itll be ok. And Ill get those biological filters and a 9 or 11 fine finish tip. As for the surface i believe its going to be a repaint (small handrail and a mantle refinish still not sure on if its clear or colored). And do I HAVE to use a retarder?
Also I remember the last guys I was with they had made up a sign on their sprayer reminding them to turn off the pilot??? Anyone know what that means?


----------



## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

If your final finish is satin (dull rub), shoot gloss on first coats and finish with dull-rubb (satin) for final coat. This will allow for a cleaner definition of grain upon completion. The more you build with a lower sheen finish, the greater the loss of clarity in graining.


----------



## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

jayfunk said:


> WOW GUYS THANKS!!
> My rig has been kept very clean so flushing it out first I think itll be ok. And Ill get those biological filters and a 9 or 11 fine finish tip.
> I remember the last guys I was with they had made up a sign on their sprayer reminding them to turn off the pilot??? Anyone know what that means?



Dont blow yourself up, would be my guess


----------



## JoseyWales (Jan 8, 2011)

I don't shoot cellulose Lacquer,but I would advise you to put a large fan in a window or door {blowing out} to evacuate the fumes. You can get some cross ventilation going by opening the front door and fanning it out through the back door.


----------



## Different Strokes (Dec 8, 2010)

JoseyWales said:


> I don't shoot cellulose Lacquer,but I would advise you to put a large fan in a window or door {blowing out} to evacuate the fumes. You can get some cross ventilation going by opening the front door and fanning it out through the back door.


Turn the gas off to the pilot lite on the furnace or stove etc... It could flash and then boom. 

Also, like Josey said, it's a great idea to use fans, even a couple box fans. I always put them in the windows blowing inward, and let the air escape through the easiest paths (other open window or doors.) Sometimes forcing the fumes out of the room by adding fresh air is easier than trying to draw the bad fumes out.


----------



## robladd (Nov 22, 2010)

Back in the day I had what Gray Company called the Contractors Rig. President 28:1 and Monarch 23:1. We ran a Quincey 25 CFM compressor it was 2 stage with a 12.5 Kohler small engine. All the guys that
had these set ups used the President for production spraying. Walls, eves, lids mostly flats and some semi's we called it our water pump. The Monarch was our finish rig. We used it for all our cabinets, doors, jambs, and any other mill work. For paints we had a dedicated hose and gun. For clears we also had a dedicated hose and gun. The Monarch was our oil pump. Paint hose and gun had mineral spirits kept and stored in it. The Clear finish hose and gun we kept and stored with Lacquer thinner in it. Those pumps evolved into the gh433 & eh333. Now it's the GM 5900 and Ultra 795. I used a 618 double orifice for clear finishes. Today I prefer the 314 double orifice in my G-40 air assisted airless. It triple atomizes the material, can't get much finer than that. I still prefer the air driven rigs cause you can really dial them in.


----------



## jayfunk (Dec 6, 2010)

So it turns out to be a small hand rail and a mantle piece thing colored re-lacquer. And after lots of research it doesnt sound like a big deal at all so im glad. One thing i did learn is that if you have a blotch or problem when its drying you can mist on some lacquer thinner while its drying to help it level itself out. And another thing... Dennis my old boss gave me his technique. He uses an 8 or 10 tip. With clear he does two coats of sealer and then the lacquer to get more buildup and prevent sanding in between coats. He also thins down the lacquer about 10 - 15% depending on the material obviously and doesnt thin the sealer. FYI. And also the pilot light thing is mostly if your spraying in the basement but other than that its not a big deal. Just get good ventilation. He said that the smell etc is not what will ignite but rather lots of lingering product in the air. Ill post some pics just for fun... thanks so much again guys wish me luck!!:notworthy:


----------



## jayfunk (Dec 6, 2010)

For everyones information it is impossible to clean out a latex/ oil sprayer with lacquer thinner. According to the repair center the lacquer will gum up all the insides and I will have lots of problems in the future. They said dont do it or else get a seperate machine for lacquer. So there you go. Im out! Lacquers and oils are going out anyway. Thanks for all your help.


----------



## robladd (Nov 22, 2010)

robladd said:


> Back in the day I had what Gray Company called the Contractors Rig. President 28:1 and Monarch 23:1. We ran a Quincey 25 CFM compressor it was 2 stage with a 12.5 Kohler small engine. All the guys that
> had these set ups used the President for production spraying. Walls, eves, lids mostly flats and some semi's we called it our water pump. The Monarch was our finish rig. We used it for all our cabinets, doors, jambs, and any other mill work. For paints we had a dedicated hose and gun. For clears we also had a dedicated hose and gun. The Monarch was our oil pump. Paint hose and gun had mineral spirits kept and stored in it. The Clear finish hose and gun we kept and stored with Lacquer thinner in it. Those pumps evolved into the gh433 & eh333. Now it's the GM 5900 and Ultra 795. I used a 618 double orifice for clear finishes. Today I prefer the 314 double orifice in my G-40 air assisted airless. It triple atomizes the material, can't get much finer than that. I still prefer the air driven rigs cause you can really dial them in.


I had a seperate pickup hose and tube for latex, oil, and lacquer. To clean latex hose just keep cycling lacquer thinner through 2 strainer bags. It takes time but it works. Your pickup hose and tube has to be clean also. You can soak it over night in LT and blow it out in the morning. Dedicated systems is key to prevent fouling from one base to the other.


----------



## xraypaint (Oct 24, 2010)

jayfunk said:


> For everyones information it is impossible to clean out a latex/ oil sprayer with lacquer thinner. According to the repair center the lacquer will gum up all the insides and I will have lots of problems in the future. They said dont do it or else get a seperate machine for lacquer. So there you go. Im out! Lacquers and oils are going out anyway. Thanks for all your help.


I am with jayfunk. You have to have two rigs to spray lacquer. It eleminates a lot of potential problems.


----------



## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

jayfunk said:


> For everyones information it is impossible to clean out a latex/ oil sprayer with lacquer thinner. According to the repair center the lacquer will gum up all the insides and I will have lots of problems in the future. They said dont do it or else get a seperate machine for lacquer. So there you go. Im out! Lacquers and oils are going out anyway. Thanks for all your help.





xraypaint said:


> I am with jayfunk. You have to have two rigs to spray lacquer. It eleminates a lot of potential problems.



Like I said, I keep dedicaed rigs. BUT, you can clean out your rig with LT. The key is to not blow out your packing. Gumming up paint inside a line is cool, YOUR TRYING TO GET THAT CRAP OUT ANYWAY. Cycle spirits and water and you will get it done. Not gonna be quick, but if you are not willing (or able) to purchase another rig for a decent sized lacquer job (ie. more than a mantle and a handrail (or whatever) then this is a viable option.


In your case Jayfunk, go get a quart of Deft brushable lacquer. There is no point in spraying what I take to be existing (remodel) stand alone pieces in an occupied house anways. (I'm reading between the lines)


----------



## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

BTW, Lacquers arent going anywhere. And I will be amazed if oil dissapears any time soon because Waterborne Alkyd is not a viable, practical, or resonable alternative. Reduced in production, for sure, but for repaints, its gonna be around until a few generations of homes get leveled to the ground. IMO


----------



## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

jayfunk said:


> For everyones information it is impossible to clean out a latex/ oil sprayer with lacquer thinner. According to the repair center the lacquer will gum up all the insides and I will have lots of problems in the future. They said dont do it or else get a seperate machine for lacquer. So there you go. Im out! Lacquers and oils are going out anyway. Thanks for all your help.


 I disagree with that one. I been doing it for years and have never had a problem. I do use a lacquer line. A seperate lacquer rig is nice and many do own one, but I never have.


----------



## robladd (Nov 22, 2010)

Woodland said:


> I disagree with that one. I been doing it for years and have never had a problem. I do use a lacquer line. A seperate lacquer rig is nice and many do own one, but I never have.


I agree with Woodland. I have never had an independent lacquer sprayer. Only pickup hoses, lines and guns. At present I run a Speeflo 30:1 airless air assist. This is my production sprayer the majority of the time I spray WB through it. My finish rig is a Airlessco 690 I have 2 pickup tubes plus 2 dedicated LT and PT lines and guns for it. If all I had to spray was a handrail & mantel I would use brushing lacquer or a cup gun. Just in my humble opinion with all do respects. Rob


----------



## jayfunk (Dec 6, 2010)

Interesting that so many people switch back and forth. I had the option of just getting someone else to spray so today Ill be prepping it and the doods coming at 11 to blast it. Ill learn something, get some easy hours masking, and I wont have to waste my time dealing with my snotted up machine haha. Id really like to get an air assisted rig for fine finish. :thumbsup:


----------



## IHATE_HOMEDEPOT (May 27, 2008)

My head is spinning what started out as an elementary paint ? turns into a hijacked thread by the OP with "useful" tips and then in the end he subs out the work. To all the people who spent 20 min. typing up a tutorial -you got hoodwinked.


----------



## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

I was tring to figure out who was giving "conflicting" opinions. It wasnt us, it must have been a crackpot the OP'er new locally. . 


But dont take my word for anything. I dont really need any more competition from painters that actually know what they are talking about.:no:


----------



## jayfunk (Dec 6, 2010)

Sorry guys i guess this did get a little side tracked. But I did want to get some more opinions which is good and hopefully this info will be useful for someone else in the future. 
So heres what the Europeans did today to relacquer the handrail and mantle.
1) Sanded old lacquer and dusted to ensure adhesion. Wash grime where needed. 
2) With 2/08 tip sprayed PX primer thinned down %20.
3) In terms of sanding they were not concerned with getting it perfectly smooth. Just a quick once over the main surfaces and a dust. They said that the lacquer would even it out and they could buff any spots at the end. I would have wasted alot of time sanding it to perfection. 
4) Sprayed the lacquer, again thinned %20. Over thinning will just need to spray slower to avoid runs. Not thinning will produce orange peel and harder to sand. 
5) Finally they used a home depot gel cleaner/polish to rub out any rough spots. This step was their secret tech and alot of the imperfections were rubbed out. I was amazed. The lacquer had to be completely dry 3-4 hours before this step. 

Well thats it. Thanks again for all the input. Too bad i didnt have a dedicated rig, I sure would have liked to have done this. Ahwell next time.:thumbup:


----------



## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

jayfunk said:


> Sorry guys i guess this did get a little side tracked. But I did want to get some more opinions which is good and hopefully this info will be useful for someone else in the future.
> So heres what the Europeans did today to relacquer the handrail and mantle.
> SUB-ED IT OUT DID YA?
> 1) Sanded old lacquer and dusted to ensure adhesion. Wash grime where needed.
> ...



Jay, the truth of the matter is- I think we all gave you advice that was solid and it feels to some that your first hand observations are the correct way of doing it. Granted everyone else does things differently, but I am pretty sure we covered it all adequetly in the limited posts before this one. I dont want to give an absolute "right way" because there is variation due to a lot of factors, but your post feels like a "right way" post and I am concerned as it is the words of an observer, not necessarily an active painter in this respect. 

This is why a lot of people dont give advice, because they feel like the person on the other end isnt going to listen anyways. The reality of the matter is you asked us stuff, we gave you supporting advice; you hired a nother painter and their methods were "gospel". 

To turn around and say: 


jayfunk said:


> I did want to get some more opinions which is good and hopefully this info will be useful for someone else in the future.


sounds a lot like "ya thanks dumazzes, THIS is the way you are supposed to do it"- for all the rest that see this thread. 



P.S. Polishing has a lot more to do with reaching different sheen levels than it does with fixing the rough spots.


----------



## jayfunk (Dec 6, 2010)

I make threads with the goal of providing as much information as possible including other peoples perspectives. 
I just want to help others in the future and didnt mean to offend anyone. I never implied that I knew or was seeing the "correct" way of doing things, I was just stating my experiences in my travels. I didn't sub out the job the company I work for decided it was best to get someone with a dedicated rig to make my life easier. Im sorry if anyone on here got offended and all I can say to that is "sheeesh".


----------



## crazywasp (Dec 22, 2010)

Love it, don't spray it. Its a bitch. Couldn't afford the booth n dedicated gear. Get just as nice a finish product from oils n glazes. Dedicate it only for banister/railing, nothing classier.

Sent from my iPhone using PaintTalk


----------

