# Best roller nap length for this project



## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

As I‘ve shared before, most of the surfaces we encounter out here are textured. As a result my most commonly used cover is a 3/4 inch. Have a project coming up where a fairly large smooth ceiling needs to be done in satin sheen. To top it off there is a fairly large skylight which is flooded with natural light. So, what length roller nap would you guys who do mainly smooth recommend for this situation?

I usually use 3/8 when doing the occasional smooth walls and ceiling in smaller rooms, just not sure that is still the best way to proceed in this case.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

personally, I would never use less than a 1/2" for walls, smooth or not.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Woodco said:


> personally, I would never use less than a 1/2" for walls, smooth or not.


 Would you use the same for smooth ceilings when applying a higher sheen?


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

Microplush 9/16

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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

PRC said:


> Microplush 9/16
> 
> Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


Was planning on using the Microplush, just not sure of length. Thanks!


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Micro Plush nap lengths*



RH said:


> Was planning on using the Microplush, just not sure of length. Thanks!


RH, I am mostly familiar with the Micro Plush 5/16", but I recently used the 9/16" on a textured ceiling. When I did this ceiling, I made a sample 2x2 sheet of flat, primed drywall with the 9/16" nap. It seems fairly smooth, but I think the 5/16" is a bit smoother. I would have both on hand and see which works better. 

Will there be lots of reflective light on this ceiling that will show imperfections of an uneven coat?

futtyos


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Only caveat with microplush is that they are difficult to find locally depending on nap size, length and dealer location. In addition just be wary that microfiber doesn't carry as much paint to the wall.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

futtyos said:


> RH, I am mostly familiar with the Micro Plush 5/16", but I recently used the 9/16" on a textured ceiling. When I did this ceiling, I made a sample 2x2 sheet of flat, primed drywall with the 9/16" nap. It seems fairly smooth, but I think the 5/16" is a bit smoother. I would have both on hand and see which works better.
> 
> Will there be lots of reflective light on this ceiling that will show imperfections of an uneven coat?
> 
> futtyos


Yes, there will be a fair amount of reflected light on the surface, that’s why I am more concerned about best cover length and such. Plus, doing it in a higher sheen than is normal for most ceilings and...


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

1/2 or 3/4 prodoozee or how ever you spell it. The 9/16 would probably be fine if you're going over an existing sheen but if it's flat the key will be to load it up with lots of paint and not make it look like a railroad track.lol and lay it off in 1 direction....might be able to crosshatch it in....not sure what your circumstances are.Also, don't obsess too much over getting it "perfect". Big lids, with any sheen just look crummy unless you can get a sprayer to it...thats why we love dead a55 flat!


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*If I were doing this, I'd...........*



RH said:


> Yes, there will be a fair amount of reflected light on the surface, that’s why I am more concerned about best cover length and such. Plus, doing it in a higher sheen than is normal for most ceilings and...


RH, assuming that the ceiling is already painted in a ceiling flat, there may be enough porosity in the surface to cause the satin to flash. If I were just painting a flat ceiling paint over everything with little or no patches that will flash, I might just roll the ceiling paint on and see how it looks. Since a satin sheen is going over a flat, I would (here it comes!!!) Roll 2 coats of Gardz onto the ceiling, the first coat a thorough one and the second coat a thin one to make sure the Gardz is coating uniformly. Depending on what other work I may be doing I might put a high speed fan on to dry the Gardz bewteen and after and make sure the 2nd coat has dried at least an hour. I guess it depends on how dry the air is.

(If the existing paint is an eggshell or higher sheen, I would not use any Gardz. I did a job where I measured the sq ft of walls to be covered (700) in 2 coats (1400) over a recently painted eggshell surface. I bought 3 gallons. I used only 2 and had enough left in the 2nd can to leave for touch-ups. I wasn't trying to roll the paint on thinly, either.)

Then I assess how cutting in with a brush vs a mini roller would look and proceed accordingly, getting all my cutting in done first, including a 2nd cutting in if the 1st did not cover and make sure to let dry thoroughly before rolling the main areas.

I would then roll out the satin with the 5/16" Micro Plush. (Before rolling, I would wet the roller, spin it out, then use a curved pair of small scissors tto cut a bevel on each end of the roller sleave to cut down on leaving roller lines. Been doing this since the 80s) If I knew that the walls were really flat I might use a 14" or 18" sleeve to speed things up. If the area to be painted is very large i might consider boosting the humidity up if that is available through the home's heating system. Otherwise, I might bring in a couple 5s of hot water before rolling each coat. Once done I would remove the hot water and let dry thoroughly before repeating the process with the 2nd coat. The whole idea is to keep the paint from drying too fast so you can achieve a uniform finish.

I started using the 5/16" Micro Plush while painting hi rise condos in Chicago. The GC originally had me rolling both ceilings and walls with 1/4" nap rollers. I tried every type I could find and all were a pita to use (even though I was being paid by the hour). On a wall I could barely roll a 9" wide strip to cover an 8' tall ceiling. When I switched to the 5/16" MP, I could roll an 18" wide swath (with a 9" roller sleave) with 1 dip of paint and get the same smooth stipple as with a 1/4" roller sleave. So far, I haven't found a better roller sleave for what I use it for.

You probably know most of this, but since you mentioned that there are few walls or ceilings in your area that are not textured, I thought I might bore you with what I would do.

Some here might say that 2 (or even just 1) coats of Gardz would be a waste of time for this project, assuming you are painting over flat paint. I consider it a waste of time to do it wrong first (paint flashing) and then have to do it right the 2nd (or 3rd!) time. This is why I started using Gardz for the purpose of achieving uniform coverage, especially under eggshell and higher sheen paints. If you are confident that you won't get any flashing with satin over flat, then go for it. 
My eyes tell me every time that it works and my muscles tell me I am in painter's heaven every time I roll paint over a properly Gardzed surface. If it were a wall or ceiling that would not get any significant reflective light, I probably wouldn't use Gardz, but if reflected light is going to be prominent, then Gardz is the way to go.

Lastly, I'd like to mention that I like to use Gardz. One day, if I get the urge, I might spring for some Draw-Tite and see how that works.

futtyos


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

RH said:


> Would you use the same for smooth ceilings when applying a higher sheen?


Yes I would.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

I think I would just stick with your 3/4


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

RH said:


> Yes, there will be a fair amount of reflected light on the surface, that’s why I am more concerned about best cover length and such. Plus, doing it in a higher sheen than is normal for most ceilings and...


Prime it with a high solids primer before you have to put 6 coats of "higher sheen" on it to get a good sheen holdout.:devil3:

Or two coats of Gardz. If you want to do that extra coat(s).


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Sorry if I mislead anyone by saying “higher sheen” - that was meant to imply higher than I am normally asked to apply on ceilings (except in baths, utility rooms, etc). The existing sheen is also a satin and the HO wants it again.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

My recent smooth wall project, with Regal Pearl as a finish, was applied with a 3/8 Purdy Dove roller sleeve. It worked fine. However, you would want longer strokes and a wider area on a ceiling in order to maintain a wet edge, speed, and consistency. Especially if you're laying off a sheen. Therefore, I agree with Woodco's 1/2 inch suggestion.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*As Emily Litella would say........*



RH said:


> Sorry if I mislead anyone by saying “higher sheen” - that was meant to imply higher than I am normally asked to apply on ceilings (except in baths, utility rooms, etc). The existing sheen is also a satin and the HO wants it again.


Skip the Gardz, then, but not the Micro Plush.

futtyos


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

futtyos said:


> Skip the Gardz, then, but not the Micro Plush.
> 
> futtyos


I did appreciate the in-depth description you provided of your process. Very thorough. The HO’s are gone for 60 days on a cruise so I can keep the room temp down to slow down drying. Also plan to add some BIN extender.

Could you please clarify one point though? And that is - how do you feel about Gardz? :devil3:


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*How do I feel about Gardz?*



RH said:


> I did appreciate the in-depth description you provided of your process. Very thorough. The HO’s are gone for 60 days on a cruise so I can keep the room temp down to slow down drying. Also plan to add some BIN extender.
> 
> Could you please clarify one point though? And that is - how do you feel about Gardz? :devil3:


:vs_love::angel::vs_love:

futtyos

P.S. Thanks for asking!


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

RH said:


> I did appreciate the in-depth description you provided of your process. Very thorough. The HO’s are gone for 60 days on a cruise so I can keep the room temp down to slow down drying. Also plan to add some *BIN *extender.
> 
> Could you please clarify one point though? And that is - how do you feel about Gardz? :devil3:


Probably you want to avoid adding BIN?


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

Hey Futtyos: Start to finish, how long does it take you to paint the walls in a standard bedroom, your way?


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

RH said:


> I did appreciate the in-depth description you provided of your process. Very thorough. The HO’s are gone for 60 days on a cruise so I can keep the room temp down to slow down drying. Also plan to add some BIN extender.
> 
> Could you please clarify one point though? And that is - how do you feel about Gardz? :devil3:


AAAAAAAahhh, I hope NOT!


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

Any chance you can just spray it out? And if it's already in satin 1/2 is plenty I'd still entertain a 3/4 in the right situation....just to get lots of product up there...it should slide around pretty well. I would only use a smaller nap if the lids are fairly new and still smooth as opposed to older and having had multiple paint jobs...those ones already have loads of stipple so it doesn't really matter anyway. And a 14 or 18 will yield the best results depending on how much wide open space ya have. 

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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Adding BIN extender*



chrisn said:


> AAAAAAAahhh, I hope NOT!


Chrisn, if RH added BIN extender, would that make the paint more like paste or glue?

futtyos


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*How long to rool walls in standard bedroom?*



Woodco said:


> Hey Futtyos: Start to finish, how long does it take you to paint the walls in a standard bedroom, your way?


Get specific, Bob.






futtyos

P.S. I am definitely not a Phenomenon, but I am a stickler for details.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*All kidding aside*



futtyos said:


> Get specific, Bob.
> 
> Phenomenon (1996):Interview with Bob - YouTube
> 
> ...


Woodco, just having fun. When you ask how long it takes to paint the walls in an average bedroom, I must ask "what is the average bedroom?"

New contruction or repaint? From walking in the door, setting up, painting, then cleaning up? Just the walls? Cutting in and rolling? Just rolling? One coat or two? What sheen over what sheen? How much repair work?

I will tell you this. I painted some bedrooms in an apt back in the 1980s. I did not keep track of how long it took me to cut in, but I did time myself on rolling both ceiling and walls in the same off-white in a 15 x 12 bedroom. Ceiling took 10 minutes and the 4 walls took 20 minutes total per coat.

I do very little production work. Most of my work is fixing things so they look good. Every job is different.

My guess is that most of you here in PT would fire me very soon after hiring me and that I would learn more from you than you from me about getting jobs done right and in a timely manner.

Hope this helps.

fluttyos


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

futtyos said:


> Woodco, just having fun. When you ask how long it takes to paint the walls in an average bedroom, I must ask "what is the average bedroom?"
> 
> New contruction or repaint? From walking in the door, setting up, painting, then cleaning up? Just the walls? Cutting in and rolling? Just rolling? One coat or two? What sheen over what sheen? How much repair work?
> 
> ...


YOU truly crack me up.
I'm gonna start calling you "gardzyos".

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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Probably you want to avoid adding BIN?





chrisn said:


> AAAAAAAahhh, I hope NOT!


Brain fart - meant UMA extender. Damn acronyms.
Double brain fart... XIM extender... sheesh...


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

lilpaintchic said:


> Any chance you can just spray it out? And if it's already in satin 1/2 is plenty I'd still entertain a 3/4 in the right situation....just to get lots of product up there...it should slide around pretty well. I would only use a smaller nap if the lids are fairly new and still smooth as opposed to older and having had multiple paint jobs...those ones already have loads of stipple so it doesn't really matter anyway. And a 14 or 18 will yield the best results depending on how much wide open space ya have.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


No, spraying is not a realistic option. Wish it was.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Spoke to my Miller store today, they carry Wooster covers but not the Microplush. They are ordering me a couple each of the 9/16 and 5/16 and they will be in later this week.. Will test each out to see how they perform.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

RH said:


> No, spraying is not a realistic option. Wish it was.


Spraying sheens without backrolling on smooth walls and lids looks like S-H-*-* anyway. I've seen it done. Its awful. Especially on a ceiling. Mild stipple is a GOOD thing.

Spraying without stipple is great for doors, bad for walls.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

futtyos said:


> Get specific, Bob.
> 
> Phenomenon (1996):Interview with Bob - YouTube
> 
> ...


Bedroom repaint. lets say 12X12 or so, basic room, walls only. Start to finish. Knocking on the front door, to saying goodbye. Paint going from flat to eggshell.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

RH said:


> As I‘ve shared before, most of the surfaces we encounter out here are textured. As a result my most commonly used cover is a 3/4 inch. Have a project coming up where a fairly large smooth ceiling needs to be done in satin sheen. To top it off there is a fairly large skylight which is flooded with natural light. So, what length roller nap would you guys who do mainly smooth recommend for this situation?
> 
> I usually use 3/8 when doing the occasional smooth walls and ceiling in smaller rooms, just not sure that is still the best way to proceed in this case.


And throw that 3/8 in the trash...may as well be rolling with a wooden dowel!lol 

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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

lilpaintchic said:


> And throw that 3/8 in the trash...may as well be rolling with a wooden dowel!lol
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Actually, just got done doing a place using that size cover. Also had smooth walls (no ceilings needed painting), eggshell sheen, and two fairly dark greens colors seperated by a chair rail. It all came out looking great but there were few large expanses of wall - lots of windows with heavy dark trim tended to break it up. With that said, I do suspect that I will end up liking the Microplush covers much more.

This house mentioned above is a really big four story (three up and basement) built in the style of a Victorian - although it is only about seven years old. The original owners spent five years building the place and brought in lots of reclaimed material from old homes so most of the light fixtures, the staircases, window trim, doors and hardware, decorative stained glass widows and transoms, are from homes built in the nineteenth century. It also has a separate three car garage and guest cottage - all on five acres. Quite the place.


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## Lazerlnes (Sep 9, 2017)

Lately I've been going with 1/2 nap for my ceilings. Could be in my head but I feel like the sheen is a little more forgiving with that texture.


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