# Looking for a good name and pricing structure



## johnnyg (Oct 22, 2009)

I have painted a couple of houses for friends and family and have become very passionate about it. I would like to move forward and start a more professional business, however, i'm struggling on a name and pricing structure. As of right now i have come up with the name "Bright Side Painting" and would like some feedback on it. Does the name have any potential? I am also open to new name suggestions if you have any. 
As far as price goes, in the past i have only charged $10.00/hr. but that's only because i wanted to help my friends and family without charging them an arm and a leg. I take pride in the work i do, and believe that i could successfully charge $50.00/hr. for my services. First question: does $50.00/hr. seem reasonable? Second question: Should i be charging by the hour? if not then what do you recommend?


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Are you kidding me?
Here's my advice. Go work for a painting contractor with these questions in mind. 
Thanks and good luck


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## mistcoat (Apr 21, 2007)

Have you read this??? OR Even this??? They both contain smart info you may find useful :yes:

Some may offer advice to you now,,, more will point you to the link above before any info comes to the table.

Welcome :thumbsup:


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

I really don't get this. 
I started painting at 18, worked for about 10 or so painting contractor, worked for one for over 13 years, becoming there spray man to forman to superintendent to vp. And I'm still trying to master this trade let alone running a success business. 
You paint uncle Jose laundry room and grandmas kitchen and you think you got what it takes? 
Please do yourself a favor and work for another painter for about 5 years.


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## mistcoat (Apr 21, 2007)

ewingpainting.net said:


> I really don't get this.
> I started painting at 18, worked for about 10 or so painting contractor, worked for one for over 13 years, becoming there spray man to forman to superintendent to vp. And I'm still trying to master this trade let alone running a success business.
> You paint uncle Jose laundry room and grandmas kitchen and you think you got what it takes?
> Please do yourself a favor and work for another painter for about 5 years.


ewing, have a quick look at this post. 
Who took the jam out of your doughnut? :laughing: 

:jester:


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

mistcoat said:


> ewing, have a quick look at this post.
> Who took the jam out of your doughnut? :laughing:
> 
> :jester:


Why you did mist. :jester:


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

BTW. That has nothing to do with my doughnuts


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

mistcoat said:


> ewing, have a quick look at this thread
> Who took the jam out of your doughnut? :laughing:
> 
> :jester:


fixed it for ya!


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## mistcoat (Apr 21, 2007)

Hee! Hee!!! 
Cheers n8 :thumbsup:


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## cppainter (Oct 21, 2009)

ewing is correct you will learn so much more under a seasoned painter i was lucky to have started with my dad who painted for 43 yr you will learn a lot of the tricks of the trade which will make you more money and and better painter good luck


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

You know how you can scroll over a post and the first couple lines appear? When I saw this one I knew it was not going to end well. 

Johnny, I know you cannot possibly understand the responses you have gotten thus far. You have ambition and excitement in your words so how could those be met with negativity? What you have written ties directly into new business failure statistics. Having pride in your work, charging fair, working hard and all the other cliches of success don't even begin to predict your future as a business owner. If there is a hierarchy of potential for opening and sustaining a business, what you have written is at the lower end of the scale. Rather than just knock you, let me give you some questions to ponder.

1) How will I market my business? Once I do all my family members and friends, how will I generate business? 
2) Do I know how to write a business plan?
3) Do I know how to estimate and bid jobs?
4) Do I have the capital to get insurance, file a business entity, and get the equipment I need?
5) Do I truly understand that owning a business is 24/7. That I will wake up in the middle of the night stressed over slow work, slow pay customers, and any of the ten fires that arise every single day?
6) Do I have the motivation and drive to do whatever it takes to succeed including holding a part time job, then estimating, then painting, then handing out flyers, then dumping the last $300 I own into advertising.. day after day, week after week until in three years i start showing my first real profit?

95% of new businesses fail in the first five years. Of the remaining 5% another 80% of them fail in the next five years. Its a struggle, man, and it is not for your average person that thinks they can work hard or thinks they are a painter because they can push a roller.

If you are still here after a month of searching both this website and yourself, there are many cool people on PT that will guide you along. I think the advice given above is sound. Get a job working for a painter to learn the craft. Take business courses on nights and weekends. Naming your business at this stage is way "cart before the horse".


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

I am not discouraging the guy. I'm ADVISING him he needs to work for a painting contractor. You can have all the passion in the world, that doesn't make you a tradesman of any trade. I have seen guys like this start a business and crash and burn within a year, simply because lack of understanding the trade. I don't like seeing that not even for eager hacks. Painting 2 houses does not qualify anyone as a painting contractor. I think N8 teacher proves that. That's a great link to provide for this guy. I know you were being funny and no prob btw. But it shows him that painting is not just putting color on the wall. He might just end up calling N8 to bail him out (lol). There is more to it. You have substrate, preparation, application and products. You need knowledge on each of these. And how many substrates, preparation methods, application methods and coating product are out there? It amazes me when talking to a painter (who has many years in the business, not directed towards anyone) and he has no understanding of product. Thinking latex is latex, so I can make up my own system. Not all latex coating are compatible with the all latex. Each coating is designed for specific substrates, even Behr paint products. It takes years of practice to gain understanding of this. So how can you paint 2 houses and know all of this? And we want to give him the tools when he doesn't even have the nuts and bolts. So play patty cake all you want. Because at the end he MIGHT just end up as ANOTHER failing business and hurting our industry even more as it fails. 
Gabe


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

*?????*​How quickly we change from positive threads praising newbies to this!​
The dogs are hungry and have now found a new bone to gnaw on.

I love it.

Sic em' boy!!

:notworthy:​


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Who gnawing on this dude. Mist N8 and I were playing around. OHHH how we have become sensitive 
Lightn up peps!


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

I'm going to get me a cigar. 
Wasn't trying to rock your boat. 
Love always
Gabe


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

ewingpainting.net said:


> WTF! Who gnawing on this dude. Mist N8 and I were playing around. OHHH how we have become sensitive like a bitch on a bone.
> Lightn up peps!


HEY MAN!!!!

 I was just kidding!!!

If you need a hug or something, I am here for ya. :surrender::surrender:


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

This young pup needs to learn a thing or two about painting pricing and running a business. I am no guru, so here I will let the knowledgeable ones offer their advice:

http://www.painttalk.com/f4/pricing-estimating-success-2779/


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

bikerboy said:


> HEY MAN!!!!
> 
> I was just kidding!!!
> 
> If you need a hug or something, I am here for ya. :surrender::surrender:


I got ya brother BB. I guess I came off harsh. I love you guys man! With teary eyes!


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

Wing - Why are being so hard on this cat?

All of the above is great advice but what are his options if no one is hiring and he still wants to pursue his dream?

I say take it slow. Work on family and friends homes and document standard procedures, dial in your production rates. Maybe even do a 50 / 50 split on a family job with a true contractor (use as a learning experience). Really, the OP didn't provide enough information. Is he experienced in customer relations, marketing, biz management, etc...

BTW, Wing, I was just kidding on my 1st sentence (just getting you more fired up).


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

Fresh.. he knows NOTHING about the biz side of painting. He doesn't know how to *dial in production rates*... he needs to work for someone who will take him under their wing.. OLD about to retire painter.. so they can use each other/help each other out.


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

N8 - That's a dam good idea - Hook up (or even partner) with a retired painter. That makes some good sense.

I wasn't talking about painting experience but general experience. As you know, production rates are unique to each individual company. By dialing in, I mean determine his average hours per sq ft and at least use that as a starting point.


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

Yeah but I don't think he even knows enough to know that he should know that. What can we do? Start a thread on helping someone become an owner of a professional paint biz?

Jeeze. Tears right at you as to what to do in situations like this.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

I agree with Gabe that working under someone will be the most beneficial for you. It will help you to learn proper technique and will provide you with the benifit of learning from someone elses mistakes. There are many benifits to learning the trade from sesoned people. 
I have had quite a few different people that have influenced my painting style in my earlier years and have also learned from painters that were lazy and helped show me what I did not want to do.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Johnny,

as you tell, many here are passionate about their business of painting. we have guys who can really help you with the business part of it, and we have guys who can help you with the technical end of it, and we have guys who can help with both. And that's what you need to be a "successful" painting contractor.

Me? I started from very lowly beginnings, such as you. There was no internet back then (some here will say there was no ELECTRICITY when I started). I learned from others and from making my own damn mistakes. Ahhhh, how much aggravation I coulda have save if there WAS the internet back then.

My advice to you, is know what you want to be. Do you want to be a great technician? Do you want to be a top business man? Do you want to be both?

Let us know which direction really excites and drives you and then listen and act on the advice that you will be given. Some of us may be a bit cantankerous, some of us can be philosophical, some of can be less than patient, and some can be just plain silly, BUT we are all passionate and knowledgeable. 

Good luck, and welcome to a site that can change your life.


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

DaArch: Nice post. He might not even know there is a difference between a tech and owner. Y'all know my thoughts though... I still believe if one has the passion, desire, and work ethic they've got their tool box 50% filled.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Fresh,
What's wrong with a lil advice that can help him succeed? Even if its harsh! I am so thankful of all those times when my mentor taught me the basics and beyond in trade and business. Even if it pissed me off. At the end he was right and fortunately I paid attention. 
Johnny, good luck to you my friend. I hope you are successful in your venture. Whether you work for someone or not. Keep coming around here, I'm sure you could show me a thing or 2 about something. And I AM open to offer extend my help your way
.
Gabe


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Issues with the BB sorry for the double post


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## Brian (Apr 10, 2007)

I think any advice along the lines of "go work for another contractor" is about the worst advice that can be given. Since 90% of the contractors out there won't last 5 years, what is he going to learn? He might learn how to paint, but it is very doubtful that he will learn anything about running a successful business.

Brian Phillips


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## johnnyg (Oct 22, 2009)

*naive*

I suppose i'll begin by apologizing for being a bit naive. I was a business major in college with an emphasis on marketing, and have always had a bit of the entrepreneurial spirit. It's clear though that there are several things that i need to learn before diving in to this particular business. That is exactly why i am here asking for advice and i appreciate your comments and criticisms. It seems as though the consensus is that i need to work with a seasoned painter and get a better idea through hands on learning. That sounds great and i'm more than willing to do that. However, i would like to learn more here as well. My drive is to be a good business man and a great technician. so anymore information would be great. Thank You.

John


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

Brian said:


> I think any advice along the lines of "go work for another contractor" is about the worst advice that can be given. Since 90% of the contractors out there won't last 5 years, what is he going to learn? He might learn how to paint, but it is very doubtful that he will learn anything about running a successful business.
> 
> Brian Phillips


 
That's a very valid point. Definetly a different angle. Got a suggestion?


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

johnnyg said:


> I suppose i'll begin by apologizing for being a bit naive. I was a business major in college with an emphasis on marketing, and have always had a bit of the entrepreneurial spirit. It's clear though that there are several things that i need to learn before diving in to this particular business. That is exactly why i am here asking for advice and i appreciate your comments and criticisms. It seems as though the consensus is that i need to work with a seasoned painter and get a better idea through hands on learning. That sounds great and i'm more than willing to do that. However, i would like to learn more here as well. My drive is to be a good business man and a great technician. so anymore information would be great. Thank You.
> 
> John


 
John: I like your style. Keep coming back and I am sure you will learn and teach.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

JohnnyG:

If you can handle the ball busting, you can learn lots at this site. Start by using the search function in the top right corner.

We don't bite...just nibble a little.


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## johnnyg (Oct 22, 2009)

I'm not affraid


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

If he wants to be a good painter as he said, by all means, 
work for someone, but who would take an apprentice and do what it takes to help him succeed anyway?
That this is tough for a contractor to do and believe me we keep trying that.
If he can't offer cheap labour or good production, he is likely screwed.
I am not being a cynic, just a realist. 
The companies that will nurture an apprentice
will try not do it to help him be on his own a year from now, we look out for that,
and most contractors wouldn't care enough to do that these days.
So, if he wants to build a good business, 
he has a better chance if he agrees with Brian.
Most of us painters may not agree, but facts are facts.


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## johnnyg (Oct 22, 2009)

looks like the only thing i'm afraid of is spelling correctly


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## johnnyg (Oct 22, 2009)

If apprenticing isn't the right idea then feed the baby bird with knowledge


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## y.painting (Jul 19, 2009)

There is not better school than learning from your own mistakes. My advice, start the company and start painting (after a little reading on here, of course). Five years with a contractor is 5 years LOST developing your own business, perfecting your processes, growing, expanding, learning from mistakes, etc. 

Don't get me wrong, I don't mean jump in clueless and burn your a--. But, looking at most great companies that grew from humble beginnings, you will always find that founders of those companies started early, made LOTS of mistakes, and were quick to learn from them. 

Don't waste your time with contractors; 99.999% of them have absolutely no interest in nurturing your entrepreneurial spirit and skill and then letting you go.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

johnnyg said:


> looks like the only thing i'm afraid of is spelling correctly


HA HA. Your a cool cat. Just bite back. And stay under DaArch's radar. 
Peace to you my brother!


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

y.painting said:


> There is not better school than learning from your own mistakes. My advice, start the company and start painting (after a little reading on here, of course). Five years with a contractor is 5 years LOST developing your own business, perfecting your processes, growing, expanding, learning from mistakes, etc.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I don't mean jump in clueless and burn your a--. But, looking at most great companies that grew from humble beginnings, you will always find that founders of those companies started early, made LOTS of mistakes, and were quick to learn from them.
> 
> Don't waste your time with contractors; 99.999% of them have absolutely no interest in nurturing your entrepreneurial spirit and skill and then letting you go.


Gotta agree with the above. Can you afford to go all in? Can you afford not to?


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## johnnyg (Oct 22, 2009)

i wanna start small, just listing limited services, get some bites, and then go to work and learn. does that sound reasonable? my issue is with estimating jobs and knowing how much paint will be needed. I don't mind looking foolish on a discussion board but i don't want to stand in front of a customer with a stupid ass look on my face.


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## LOSTinDETAILS (Jun 17, 2009)

fresh coat said:


> N8 - That's a dam good idea - Hook up (or even partner) with a retired painter. That makes some good sense.


Maybe he would be good candidate for a Fresh Coat franchise, just thinking out loud.


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

Paint your bedroom. How long does it take you paint the Walls? Ceiling? Trim? How many sq ft are each of the above? Determine how many hrs for each of the above as well? Gals of paint for each? Now, you've got yourself a baseline.


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

LOSTinDETAILS said:


> Maybe he would be good candidate for a Fresh Coat franchise, just thinking out loud.


How so? Please eloborate.


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## johnnyg (Oct 22, 2009)

Fresh coat,

only problem is, i live in an apartment that doesn't allow me to paint.


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

johnnyg said:


> Fresh coat,
> 
> only problem is, i live in an apartment that doesn't allow me to paint.


But you get my point - right?


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Brian said:


> I think any advice along the lines of "go work for another contractor" is about the worst advice that can be given. Since 90% of the contractors out there won't last 5 years, what is he going to learn? He might learn how to paint, but it is very doubtful that he will learn anything about running a successful business.
> 
> Brian Phillips


Brian I usually find your posts very true but i have to disagree with hiring on being the worst advice to give. Granted he is not likely to learn to build a painting business from the employer but it will give him the tech side of the job. I mean trial and error is one thing but come on, you know the failure rate for a start up painting business and then top that with not knowing the trade.


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## LOSTinDETAILS (Jun 17, 2009)

fresh coat said:


> How so? Please eloborate.


He would have the support of all his fellow Fresh Coater's and not to mention the corporate big wigs.


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## johnnyg (Oct 22, 2009)

Fresh coat,

Yeah, were on the same page. I need to find a place to conduct the trial and error without screwing someone over.


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## johnnyg (Oct 22, 2009)

workaholic,

i agree, there are things i need to learn that will require more of a hands on approach.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Johnnyg, 
Do you have the any of the tools for the job? Do you know anything about drywall repair? Where is your experience in the painting trade?


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## johnnyg (Oct 22, 2009)

i'm definitely lacking in the experience department. I suppose the only repair work i've done before a paint job is filling holes with putty (thats what she said). But all joking aside, i'm lacking in the technical department.


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## LOSTinDETAILS (Jun 17, 2009)

I agree you should paint day in and day out with a professional for at least a minimum of 2 years. I truly believe if you have the passion like you say you do. You wont have a hard time finding a contractor that will take a gamble on you. Just remember that you need to focus on being able to adapt quickly and always working at increasing your production rates to a level that your boss is as happy as a pig in slop. After you get to this point you might be ready to put together some answers for all these questions you are going to be throwing at us here in the future. Good luck Johnny.


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## Picky Painter (Oct 7, 2009)

I'm with GeorgeZ and y.painting, alot of contractors just want you to do a passable job without teaching you too much. You may get your feet wet this way, but you're not going to grow very much in this kind of environment. I know of this one contractor in my area who gets a backlog of work, hires a guy promising him all kinds of advanced training and earnings, keeps the poor guy in the dark, gets the backlog cleared up and then lets him go before he learns too much. I know of three people he has done this to. It's pretty hard to develop your own customer base while working for somebody else. All I'm saying is sure, hire on with somebody to learn the basics, but don't expect too much.

Johnnyg I'm going to assume that you're in your twenties. Do you know what a tradesman's body feels like once he reaches his forties? Please take into consideration that painting is a deceptively physical occupation, you have to move your dominant arm all bloody day, climb up and down ladders, crane your neck backwards while you roll ceilings, crawl around on your knees painting baseboards, you get the idea. Tendonitis and chronic shoulder pain are common among painters. I have known many people in construction trades who reach a certain age and then lament that they can't enjoy life due to the aches and pains. I'm not trying to discourage you by any means, just thought you should know that aspect of this silly business.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Trusting someone with a paint job is more than just some paint it is trusting someone with their most valuable posession and letting someone into your home is trusting them with their family. Most people on this board take pride in their work and strive to get better no matter how much experience they have. 

johnnyg, The best advice I can give is one of three things. 
1. Hire on with a company and learn the basics before making your move. Prep is where you would start and bad prep shows through to the finish. 

2. Focus purely on the business side and hire 2-3 experienced painters and keep track of their production rates and keep tweaking things till you get it right and become a great salesman.

3. Forget this trade that looks easy on paper but is actually harder and go to school and get a career with bennies and perks.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

johnnyg said:


> I suppose i'll begin by apologizing for being a bit naive. I was a business major in college with an emphasis on marketing, and have always had a bit of the entrepreneurial spirit. It's clear though that there are several things that i need to learn before diving in to this particular business. That is exactly why i am here asking for advice and i appreciate your comments and criticisms. It seems as though the consensus is that i need to work with a seasoned painter and get a better idea through hands on learning. That sounds great and i'm more than willing to do that. However, i would like to learn more here as well. My drive is to be a good business man and a great technician. so anymore information would be great. Thank You.
> 
> John


Maybe think Franchise! I am serious...I have often thought I would be a little more stable if I would have went that route. Although I only had enough money for Ins.,some hand tools and a 4' ladder


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## johnnyg (Oct 22, 2009)

can somebody give me a list of the services that are most frequently asked for that pertain to an interior paint job?


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

Rearanging furniture


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## johnnyg (Oct 22, 2009)

Aaron61,

I'm in the position where i can't afford a franchise. I just got laid off from my previous construction job and need to find a way to supplement my savings so i'm not dipping in to it for everyday expenses.


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

aaron61 said:


> Maybe think Franchise! I am serious...I have often thought I would be a little more stable if I would have went that route. Although I only had enough money for Ins.,some hand tools and a 4' ladder


Are you sayin if you had $20k - $80k to lay down on a franchise, you would have done that vs. applying that same cash flow to build a biz from ground up?


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Start with easy jobs. Like the ones you did (man it yourself). When you come across something that you need help with. Talk to you paint manufacture. 
.
When dealing with paint prices talk to your paint manufacture rep. Go to let say SW, ask to talk to the rep of that area. Say the code word "EWING". Jk no really the 1st step would to get a paint rep. And use the hell out of him. You may want to have 2, each from different suppliers. They can help you. Also stay in the guidelines of the paint product specs. Once you step out of that your on your own if a failure were to occur. Meaning your picking up the tab labor & material. Do this and report back. 
I would most defiantly talk to a sale rep 1st. He will be hands on. Showing you procedures, costing, ect. If he or she is a good rep.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

What was the previous construction job? Trade wise I mean.


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## johnnyg (Oct 22, 2009)

workaholic,

I was building wind turbines in texas. Nothing to do with painting.


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

LOSTinDETAILS said:


> He would have the support of all his fellow Fresh Coater's and not to mention the corporate big wigs.


Lost: There are other franchises out there (certapro, college painters, etc...). Why did you specifically call our fresh coat? Just curious.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

fresh coat said:


> Lost: There are other franchises out there (certapro, college painters, etc...). Why did you specifically call our fresh coat? Just curious.


Probably because the Fresh Coat name was just one post up.

Sounds resonable.


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

If that is the case - cool. Like I said, just curious.


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## LOSTinDETAILS (Jun 17, 2009)

Sean hit it on the head. 

Are there any other franchise owners participating on PT?


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Boy Johny, your 1st post got every one all feeling weird. everyone thinks the other is attacking them. WAY TO GO we needed this.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

The tech side will take trial and error. For the business side try this.


http://www.outofthebucket.com/


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Boy Johny, your 1st post got every one all feeling weird. everyone thinks the other is attacking them. WAY TO GO we needed this.


 We need a little spark around here.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

johnnny, congratulations on starting a business! I'll Give the following slogan to you for free.

"Your job deserves the skill of a pro, if you agree, please let us know"


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

LOSTinDETAILS said:


> Sean hit it on the head.
> 
> Are there any other franchise owners participating on PT?


Maybe I took it the wrong way. Sorry, if I did. I thought you were taking a shot.:2guns:Were you?


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## Metro M & L (Jul 21, 2009)

My advice,

Stop thinking like a painter and start thinking like a business owner. You don't have enough knowledge about the industry? Read every thread on this site It'll only take a week or two. Then, HIRE a painter who can teach you something. Yeah they might be a burnt out drunk but you take what you can get from each contact and use it to grow. If a person on your team isn't advancing you get rid of them. These are the people you need on your team -

Paint Rep
Customers who provide referrals
Accountant (possibly)
Lawyer (possibly)
Employees who provide ROI in knowledge or cash preferably both.
Inside men/women within bureacracies (ie people who work in institutions that can give you the big contracts that really make you money. Some ideas would be the building/permitting department of your city, local property management, realtors (watch out), leasing agents, contractors, secretary's at offices of all of the above. 

Don't forget, the people on your team who are on the lower rungs now are going to move higher later on. When they move they pull you up with them. And vice versa.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

fresh coat said:


> Are you sayin if you had $20k - $80k to lay down on a franchise, you would have done that vs. applying that same cash flow to build a biz from ground up?


20 sure 80 no way


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

First,

Brian, I respectfully, and I do mean RESPECTFULLY disagree. 

working for someone who fails in the business can be very instructional. Hell, who here hasn't learned from their own failures :whistling2:

Second,

Johnny.

Hopefully by going to business school, you have a head start with that end. Thanks for sharing that so we know where you're at.

Now we gotta focus on your technical needs. If you can not hire someone with the knowledge (and patience to teach you) it's gonna be a loooong haul learning here. Although, as I have said before, painting isn't rocket surgery. It's not real difficult. It's like a golf swing. There are many parts of it. It takes a long time to master each part and put it all together for a beautiful end result. HOWEVER if one little part is amiss, you'll shank, skull, slice or hook your way to a 112. 

All I can offer is that when you run into a technical question, ask here.

And there are some things you can only master my doing them over and over.


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## johnnyg (Oct 22, 2009)

Thanks again everyone for sharing your knowledge with me. I'm sure i'll be back with plenty of new questions. Thanks again.

John


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

I think you should go work for contractor that has been around for a while,their are plenty of them that have been in my town way longer then 5 years. I think it is best to learn from the ground up learn how to paint during the day, and learn how to run a buisness at night or on weekends. A lot of people will tell you that you dont have to know how to paint to run a painting buisness, and they are correct, but I think it makes it a lot easier if you do. It helps in sales and field decisions if you have hands experience imo


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Dave Mac said:


> I think you should go work for contractor that has been around for a while,their are plenty of them that have been in my town way longer then 5 years. I think it is best to learn from the ground up learn how to paint during the day, and learn how to run a buisness at night or on weekends. A lot of people will tell you that you dont have to know how to paint to run a painting buisness, and they are correct, but I think it makes it a lot easier if you do. It helps in sales and field decisions if you have hands experience imo



Now there you go ! Well said, and succinctly. :thumbsup:


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

johnnyg said:


> I have painted a couple of houses for friends and family and have become very passionate about it. I would like to move forward and start a more professional business, ....etc.... I take pride in the work i do, and believe that i could successfully charge $50.00/hr. for my services. First question: does $50.00/hr. seem reasonable? Second question: Should i be charging by the hour? if not then what do you recommend?


I am being honest when I say, you don't have the slightest idea how to paint.

Shouldn't knowing how to paint be somewhere in the plan of charging $50 an hour for your professional painting services?

Seriously you are putting the carriage way, way, way, way before the horse.

You need to learn how to paint before you even start having the idea that you are ready to embark on a career as a professional painter.

Go find an established painting contractor with a reputation for quality and work for them for 4 years, then start your company. You still won't be nearly as efficient and skilled as a painter with your capacity who has been painting for 10 years and who charges $50 an hour, but at least you will have a vague concept of how to go about doing the actual work effectively.

Best wishes.


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## Slingah (Sep 24, 2007)

Your off to a good start with what you learned in college....do like others have said....get some formal training in the field. The best thing I ever did was to go and work for a few different outfits and hone my craft. 
I didn't know what I didn't know......


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

y.painting said:


> There is not better school than learning from your own mistakes.


*
That would make an excellent slogan for JohnnyG's van.*




y.painting said:


> Don't get me wrong, I don't mean jump in clueless and burn your a--


Then what _do_ you mean? Because this is exactly what he would be doing if he starts a contracting business now without having the slightest idea how to paint first, not to mention charging people in his community $50 an hour for his services.

Incidentally, it won't be HIS ass he will be burning, it will be the asses of all those trusting clients who pay him good money with the assumption that he is just as valuable as other contractors charging $50 an hour.



y.painting said:


> you will always find that founders of those companies started early, made LOTS of mistakes, and were quick to learn from them.


I have not seen this. I don't doubt that there are a fair amount of contractors that started this way. But most successful contractors I know of started how Ewing stated he started: Up through ranks of established painting companies, until he actually knew HOW to paint, AND how to structure an efficient painting company.

_THEN_ he started his company. 

Here is another good slogan for JohnnyG's van:
*
"We charge you $50 an hour to make lots of mistakes, but we are quick to learn from them"*


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

Just searched my Zoho employment application database.

Since last December:

There were 445 online applicants claiming over 10 years experience.
For many reason most of them did not make the interview cut.
From 23 experienced painters we interviewed since then, 
we hired 4 of them.
None of them lasted a week.
The best people we hired in the last 2 years and are still with us and thriving
had less than 5 years experience. 
I look at our existing painters and I wouldn't change them for anybody.

And by the way, I know what I am talking about,
I myself have over 20 years experience of painting in the field 
trained as most of you would claim to be right way, by old "Masters"

So, let's cut the c--p, there is no Patron Saint for experienced Painters.


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

George Z said:


> Just searched my Zoho employment application database.
> 
> Since last December:
> 
> ...


 
And this is why I like this forum. So many different views. Of those folks that you hired @ 2 to 5 yrs, I assume you got a pretty decent retention rate?


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

Is 



 a joke?


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

fresh coat said:


> And this is why I like this forum. So many different views. Of those folks that you hired @ 2 to 5 yrs, I assume you got a pretty decent retention rate?


This group for us has been the right demographic for hiring, so yes.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

We all have our beliefs of what one should or should not do in business, trade and life. We came to our understanding through our experiences. Which makes it valid with passion. And that's what one needs to follow. Not just because of some yahoo on PT says you should work for another painter or not.
Gabe


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## johnnyg (Oct 22, 2009)

last crafstman,

It seems as though you're the most realistic of the bunch. I do consider myself a bit of an artist and can paint a house just as good as anyone. I may not be incredibly savvy in the technical department, but i'm no fool, so give some advice that's useful and not so pesemistic


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

johnnyg said:


> last crafstman,
> 
> It seems as though you're the most realistic of the bunch. I do consider myself a bit of an artist and can paint a house just as good as anyone. I may not be incredibly savvy in the technical department, but i'm no fool, so give some advice that's useful and not so pesemistic


 
You are discovering the varied personalities of "Paint Talk". Need to grow some thick skin. 

To be honest, most of us work hard every day to run a business. It is almost an insult when somebody appears on this site claiming " I am now going to be a paint contractor", help me. Some will help.

Truth is many will fail. Even the established ones. 

Don't blame you for wanting to better yourself or to build a business. Just have to realize that we all react to posters in different ways. If you can't handle the crap here, it is doubtful you can handle the crap out there in the painting world.


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

Jonhnnyg- To begin with, spend a couple of days reading ALOT of this site. Take notes.
You see it has different forums, visit them all and you will get a pretty good idea of what you will run up against.
Then think about Wisepainters 3 choices.


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## WAGGZ (Apr 2, 2009)

Johnny,

My advice to find a one man show that maybe looking for a helper. The more old school the better, IMO. You may can cut a line as good as anyone on this board but there's more to it than that. If your about to do something you've never done before have a sit down with your paint rep. My SW store manager has saved me some money for sure. The reason I say try to find a one man show is because of what I see in area. These guys are your true artisans, and they make more money per gallon. Some of your bigger crews are just set up to Blow and GO.


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## mistcoat (Apr 21, 2007)

George Z said:


> Is this a joke?


Yes!
This is partly why I cannot be bothered to employ painters anymore and like to operate as a sole trader.

Now please don't get me wrong, I can have a good laugh with the rest of them. But there is too much messing about and stealing time and money from the bosses.
The boss has to travel around getting more work, be in the office etc., so he cannot be onsite when the blokes are there.

What I am saying is - when the cats away, the mice will play.
Can't be doing with it, these ppl are costing you and me money, and what if the HO were to come home and see that 

Sorry to come off topic there, but you started it George Z :thumbup:


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## y.painting (Jul 19, 2009)

LC, take a look at Craftsmanship is not what makes a business succesful and How Perfectionism Can Ruin A Business.

Then, read through Business Week's America's Best Young Entrepreneurs 

The last link, especially, will highlight that experience is not what makes a successful entrepreneur- it is all about the right execution and having the right people around you!

John does not have to take on the most complicated projects that exist out there, it is simple to decline or refer a customer to another contractor when you know you will not be able to complete a job.

Let's be honest, most HO will never hire a PC and most of them do a reasonably ok job on simple, small room repaints. I am more than sure that John is equipped (after some in-home painting practice and reading these blogs) to handle such small jobs. Simple, single or couple room repaints should be his starting point. Frankly, I do not believe that anyone needs to go out and work for a PC for years in order to be able to handle such jobs.

With time and more experience, John can take on more complicated projects. 

But, the most important thing is getting started now! You make it sound like working through the "corporate" ladder ranks is a pre-requisite to running a successful business. It is not. Rising up through management positions is not a right of passage to a successful business. Counts and counts of successful young entrepreneurs have proven so.

Just my opinion, I could be wrong


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

johnnyg said:


> last crafstman,
> 
> I do consider myself a bit of an artist and can paint a house just as good as anyone.


This notion is incredibly erroneous.

There is not one painter here that will agree with you about that statement you made after your proclamation of having "painted two houses"

Do you think it will help your business to be successful to be filled with completely false concepts about your capability? 

No. It won't

I and several others have given you VERY GOOD advice on what to do to prepare yourself to have a successful career in painting.

You don't understand how much is involved with professional painting processes.

There are ALL KINDS of strategies, techniques and processes that you can NOT just figure out with common sense. You need to see how they are done first hand, then you will be able to at least learn by trying to do it.

I was being honest when I said you don't have the slightest idea how a house is painted in a professional capacity.

I gave you the best advice I knew how to give you. I feel my advice is the most helpful thing I could do for you.



johnnyg said:


> so give some advice that's useful and not so pesemistic


When I ended my post with "Best wishes". I meant that very literally. With the best intentions.

Is it pessimistic to send your kid to school to learn calculus? Is it pessimistic for a person to go to school to learn how to be an architect? Is it pessimistic to take classes to learn karate?

The irony of your statement is that YOU perceive my advice as pessimistic.

That perception is actually pessimistic.

My advice which was the same as several others was in my opinion the very best direction I could steer you in.

If you don't want it, you are free to disregard it.

But I would give it some thought if I were you, I can guarantee you one thing, me and the other painters who have given you this advice are no slouches when it comes to understanding paint procedure, and how a successful painting business is run.

There are other established painters here telling you to just go for it.

Those painters are clearly established and successful, there is no doubt that they know how to paint very well after 20, or 30 years, and how to run a painting business.

I personally think they forgot what it's like to not know anything about painting, and they are being overly optimistic about thinking that your best move is to just go for it without taking any time to learn from hands on experience working for an established contractor.

Not only that, launching your business knowing nothing about painting 20 or 30 years ago, is an ENTIRELY different thing than trying to do that same move now.

Painting is different now. The strategies and techniques that competitive painters are using are sophisticated technical.

Trying to break into painting with zero professional experience this day and age, is a completely different thing that doing that 20 or 30 years ago.

But if this is actually true:



johnnyg said:


> last crafstman,
> I do consider myself a bit of an artist and can paint a house just as good as anyone.


Then, I don't know what you need our help for.

Just go for it.


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

A lot of people think of the painting buisness as a non skill trade, like cleaning out gutters or cutting a lawn, how hard can it be. lol then they try to start a buisness and learn the truth lol, I once read a quote about starting a painting buisness that said "if you cant look in the mirror and talk about painting for at least a half hour you shouldn't even think about starting a buisness""" or something like that anyways


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## capitalcity painting (Apr 28, 2008)

fresh coat said:


> Maybe I took it the wrong way. Sorry, if I did. I thought you were taking a shot.:2guns:Were you?


You are paranoid, I dont think he meant anything about it. I didnt even know freshcoat was a franchise. What is the start up cost for a painting franchise and what is the benefit?


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

capitalcity painting said:


> You are paranoid, I dont think he meant anything about it. I didnt even know freshcoat was a franchise. What is the start up cost for a painting franchise and what is the benefit?


Do really have to ask what a benifit of a franchise buisness is???? I find that a bit odd for any buisness owner to ask.

Start up cost would be a personal thing not really proper to ask on public forumn. imo


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## y.painting (Jul 19, 2009)

*1. Name Recognition* – When you open an established franchise, you will be launching a business with a name that is already widely known and respected. While you’ll need to spend time and energy letting people know where your business is, you won’t have to worry about educating them about what you do – at least not entirely. There’s much to be said for being able to introduce a new location of an established brand.
*2. Track Record of Success* – One of the main comforts to entrepreneurs who choose to open franchise operations is the fact that the same business idea they are implementing has enjoyed a history of success in other locales.
*3. Reduced Risk* – The success rate for franchise operations tends to be much higher for franchises than it is for new business ideas. This ties into the fact that when you open a franchise, you are opening a business that does have a history of success elsewhere. Someone else has worked out the so called kinks, and has created an effective model upon which new franchises can be built.
*4. Support from Corporate* – When you own a franchise, part of what you pay franchise fees for is to make sure you have access to training and support from your company’s corporate headquarters. The company from which you purchase your franchise has a vested interest in seeing you succeed, and they know your business inside and out.
*5. Marketing Support* – Another main advantage that franchise owners have is the ability to participate in company wide marketing promotions. Many franchise operations have extensive national advertising programs, which of course benefit franchise owners everywhere. Most small business owners couldn’t afford this level of advertising support on their own.
*6. F**aster Start Up* 
You have a short learning curve as a franchise owner, because you have assistance from a franchisor with lots of experience to draw upon in starting other new operations successfully. You and your personnel often get on-the-job instruction.
*7. Purchasing Power*
The group purchasing power of franchisees can make a big difference in your costs of doing business. Large buying groups can typically demand significantly lower prices on goods and services.


http://www.americanbankingnews.com/2009/10/23/5-benefits-of-opening-a-franchise-business/


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## capitalcity painting (Apr 28, 2008)

Dave Mac said:


> Do really have to ask what a benifit of a franchise buisness is???? I find that a bit odd for any buisness owner to ask.
> 
> Start up cost would be a personal thing not really proper to ask on public forumn. imo


Yes I do need to ask. I know a few things like name recogonition and support but was wondering what some of things that are not obvious to someone that is not a franchise. I dont expect fresh to tell me exactly what he paid for his start up but would be nice to know a range and what you get for the money. This is also a general question about franchises not just his painting franchise. 

Didnt I ask fresh these questions to begin with. He is on here quit a bit and I'm sure he can tell me if I'm out of line himself so get off my nuts


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## capitalcity painting (Apr 28, 2008)

y.painting said:


> *1. Name Recognition* – When you open an established franchise, you will be launching a business with a name that is already widely known and respected. While you’ll need to spend time and energy letting people know where your business is, you won’t have to worry about educating them about what you do – at least not entirely. There’s much to be said for being able to introduce a new location of an established brand.
> *2. Track Record of Success* – One of the main comforts to entrepreneurs who choose to open franchise operations is the fact that the same business idea they are implementing has enjoyed a history of success in other locales.
> *3. Reduced Risk* – The success rate for franchise operations tends to be much higher for franchises than it is for new business ideas. This ties into the fact that when you open a franchise, you are opening a business that does have a history of success elsewhere. Someone else has worked out the so called kinks, and has created an effective model upon which new franchises can be built.
> *4. Support from Corporate* – When you own a franchise, part of what you pay franchise fees for is to make sure you have access to training and support from your company’s corporate headquarters. The company from which you purchase your franchise has a vested interest in seeing you succeed, and they know your business inside and out.
> ...


Thanks, I have heard people say it takes such and such money to open this franchise. Does the franchise actually take that money or do they want to just make sure you have it so that you have a good chance to succeed.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

capitalcity painting said:


> Thanks, I have heard people say it takes such and such money to open this franchise. Does the franchise actually take that money or do they want to just make sure you have it so that you have a good chance to succeed.


 
They take the money. 

You get the right to use the name, support, a proven system for success and more.


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## smigel (Jul 5, 2009)

*Ex-Franchise Consultant*

In the two franchises I worked for there was a certain amount paid, a certain amount required for cash flow and another amount to insure the franchisee would not have to take money out of the company for 2 years and then they collected royalties. I acted as franchise consultant working with 30 owners of small business in sales, marketing and operations. And,

I was a suit and tie guy who had one hammer and two screw drivers at home when I started my painting buisness 6 years ago. I understood business but had no clue of painting, pricing, nothing. My handyman laughed when he heard I was going into the paint business at 48. I did not know how to open a can of paint. I started with an ad and business cards and the capacity to ask every dumb question to knowlegeable people. Six years and one recession later and I am still around with an excellent reputation.


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

I own two non trades related franchises. The whole concept can be simplified to one word.. systems. That's what franchises are all about.

Here is how you get people to call.
Here is what to say when they call.
Here is how to measure.
Here's the sheet you put those measurements on.

..and so on all the way to how to hire employees and how to use the customized, user-friendly, accounting software to keep your books. 

Franchises can cost some coin to buy into (some you need a million $$ liquid) but the failure rate is far lower. The entire business model has already been tried, tested and perfected.

The downside is you will make less money but so what? You just buy more. They run themselves. The good ones do anyway.


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## y.painting (Jul 19, 2009)

Ken, on a side note, I think if I owned one of the places you've got, I'd rob myself of my own goods....I LOVE ice cream waaaay too much


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

capitalcity painting said:


> Yes I do need to ask. I know a few things like name recogonition and support but was wondering what some of things that are not obvious to someone that is not a franchise. I dont expect fresh to tell me exactly what he paid for his start up but would be nice to know a range and what you get for the money. This is also a general question about franchises not just his painting franchise.
> 
> Didnt I ask fresh these questions to begin with. He is on here quit a bit and I'm sure he can tell me if I'm out of line himself so get off my nuts


 
I think they are selling territories ( ~190,000 population)now for ~$28 - $30K. 6% royalties, $150 / mo for branding fees. As far as the pros / cons do a search on this forum. Look for posts by Calist. I think he did a good job of elaborating.

As far as the original post goes, I am a bit biased. So, take my opinion with a grain of salt. When I started my biz, almost 2 years ago, the only positive support I got was from my wife. Everybody from family to friends said I was crazy and stupid to give up a very good salary and pursue a start up company. I did and still do look at this way, even if I failed the learning experience would make me that much smarter for my next venture.

There was no way I was going to look back at my life and say what if I would have started my own business. So, I took a chance and am moving closer to my goals. My point is: if you listen to all the naysayers, you will stay grounded and never pursue your dreams. Conversely, if you listen to me - you are a fool. Follow your dream with 100% passion (some planning wouldn't hurt either) and hold it WFO.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

smigel said:


> In the two franchises I worked for there was a certain amount paid, a certain amount required for cash flow and another amount to insure the franchisee would not have to take money out of the company for 2 years and then they collected royalties. I acted as franchise consultant working with 30 owners of small business in sales, marketing and operations. And,
> 
> I was a suit and tie guy who had one hammer and two screw drivers at home when I started my painting buisness 6 years ago. I understood business but had no clue of painting, pricing, nothing. My handyman laughed when he heard I was going into the paint business at 48. I did not know how to open a can of paint. I started with an ad and business cards and the capacity to ask every dumb question to knowlegeable people. Six years and one recession later and I am still around with an excellent reputation.


VVVVVV


ewingpainting.net said:


> We all have our beliefs of what one should or should not do in business, trade and life. We came to our understanding through our experiences. Which makes it valid with passion. And that's what one needs to follow. Not just because of some yahoo on PT says you should work for another painter or not.
> Gabe


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

y.painting said:


> Ken, on a side note, I think if I owned one of the places you've got, I'd rob myself of my own goods....I LOVE ice cream waaaay too much


Amen. In my twenties I would do that "inch pinch" test. Two fingers and grab my stomach fat. if it was more than an inch, vanity kicked in and I would cut my calories until I was back in the zone. Now, at 41, I reach down and cup my hand as if grabbing a hamburger and if there is still room in my half open fist of flesh, I figure I am okay. Wolfies post and a similar situation with a colleague in PW'ing bring it back home. If there is anytime to not be in shape its as an aging business owner.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

Time to head to Curves!


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## 1977corey (Feb 27, 2009)

PressurePros said:


> You know how you can scroll over a post and the first couple lines appear? When I saw this one I knew it was not going to end well.
> 
> Johnny, I know you cannot possibly understand the responses you have gotten thus far. You have ambition and excitement in your words so how could those be met with negativity? What you have written ties directly into new business failure statistics. Having pride in your work, charging fair, working hard and all the other cliches of success don't even begin to predict your future as a business owner. If there is a hierarchy of potential for opening and sustaining a business, what you have written is at the lower end of the scale. Rather than just knock you, let me give you some questions to ponder.
> 
> ...


Yet another positive and encouraging post from PressurePros :thumbup:


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## 1977corey (Feb 27, 2009)

johnnyg said:


> i wanna start small, just listing limited services, get some bites, and then go to work and learn. does that sound reasonable? my issue is with estimating jobs and knowing how much paint will be needed. I don't mind looking foolish on a discussion board but i don't want to stand in front of a customer with a stupid ass look on my face.


If you have an issue estimating jobs, that is going to be your main problem. too much or too little? paint and your LABOUR


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

And your overhead!!


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## capitalcity painting (Apr 28, 2008)

ewingpainting.net said:


> And your overhead!!


He will have very little overhead when he starts out as a small one man interior painter. Our overhead grows as we try and grow our business.


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## capitalcity painting (Apr 28, 2008)

smigel said:


> In the two franchises I worked for there was a certain amount paid, a certain amount required for cash flow and another amount to insure the franchisee would not have to take money out of the company for 2 years and then they collected royalties. I acted as franchise consultant working with 30 owners of small business in sales, marketing and operations. And,
> 
> I was a suit and tie guy who had one hammer and two screw drivers at home when I started my painting buisness 6 years ago. I understood business but had no clue of painting, pricing, nothing. My handyman laughed when he heard I was going into the paint business at 48. I did not know how to open a can of paint. I started with an ad and business cards and the capacity to ask every dumb question to knowlegeable people. Six years and one recession later and I am still around with an excellent reputation.


Thanks for all the info on franchises and sorry to still your thread johnyg. Like Smigel I started roughly 6 years ago and didnt have a clue. I now am doing pretty good and only looking up thanks in part to this site. Many people on here know what they are talking about and even more importantly give you the knowledge and drive to grow with their stories. If I had found this site when I started I would be even further along or never would have started in the first place depending on who I listened to. 

If you wanna go for it then do it. If you have a good credit, some support, and drive then you could make it. If you have bad credit, short on cash, and no support from your family then take the route of working with someone else for a while.


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

y.painting said:


> LC, take a look at Craftsmanship is not what makes a business succesful


I have read it. There are some very good points in that post. Frankly I don't know why people would need to be told some of them. For example I agree with this: "if you are way overbooked try raising your rates". 

You wind up working less to make the same amount of money, and you still have more work than you can complete.

I agree with a lot of what Ken says. *His advice for how to go about targeting a specific market with your mailers is* *brilliant*, and changed my entire outlook on the effectiveness of sending out mailers. 

I have even told a few tradesmen who have always done really well on close to 100% referall rates, and no advertising to check it out.

-----------------

But I don't understand the point of me needing to read that post as result of me trying to advise JohnnyG that gaining some actual painting experience in an environment of a successful established painting company will be immensely helpfull to his painting career.

Bear in mind Ken said this to JohnnyG about starting a painting business:



PressurePros said:


> Get a job working for a painter to learn the craft


----------------



y.painting said:


> and How Perfectionism Can Ruin A Business.


Y.painting, I am advising JohnnyG to go work for an established painter so that he can at least have a vague overview of all of the processes involved in competitive professional painting procedure.

I don't see how having a vague idea of professional painting procedure, before starting a painting business has anything to do with being a "perfectionist."

So, I did skim the post like you suggested, but I fail to see how it is relevant.



y.painting said:


> I am more than sure that John is equipped (after some in-home painting practice and reading these blogs) to handle such small jobs.


Will he be equipped after some in-home painting and reading these blogs to charge $50 an hour for such jobs when established painters with say 10 years on the job experience are charging $50 an hour for the same job?



y.painting said:


> You make it sound like working through the "corporate" ladder ranks is a pre-requisite to running a successful business.


No, I was simply responding to your claim that "most great companies that grew from humble beginnings, you will always find that founders of those companies started early, made LOTS of mistakes, and were quick to learn from them."

I didn't even say your comment wasn't true. I said: _"I have not seen this". _And then said that most of the successful copmpanies I know of started by working for established, efficient, successful companies to gain experience before striking out on their own.

I do not think that JohnnyG has to go from prep, to journeyman/spray guy, to jobsite manager, to VP of the company etc, to have sound knowledge of competative proffesional paint procedure, and company structuring/operations.

But several years of working full time for an efficient sucessful company would be an EXTREMELY valuable tool in contributing to his success and profitability as a painting contractor.

I made the comment that "We charge you $50 an hour to make lots of mistakes, but we are quick to learn from them" would make a good slogan for his van because I thought it would put it into *crisp* perspective as to what he would actually be providing/subjecting his customer base to by starting a painting business with no experience.



y.painting said:


> Rising up through management positions is not a right of passage to a successful business. Counts and counts of successful young entrepreneurs have proven so.


True. I agree.

Now I will make an equally true statement:

Having essentially NO direct knowledge of professional painting procedure/business procedure and having only the experience of having painted two houses for relatives is not a right of passage to a successful paint contracting business. Counts and counts of UNsuccessful young entrepreneurs have proven so.

--------

EDIT:

P.S. Another good slogan for JohnnyG's van would be:

*"Craftsmanship is not what makes a business successful"

:whistling2:


*Have I gone too far? I never can tell.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

LC, you have given ole johnnyg plenty of slogans to contemplate. You should post in the slogan thread. Some good ones there if they are posted for laughs, I am not sure if johnnyg will see the humor though. 

We all start somewhere. I am in the bucket and always have been and hope I find my way out of it before I am broken like many end up. 
Others become business owners and can't paint to save their lives. While this is not for me and i have a hard time understanding it, it is still proven to work well sometimes. 

I too shake my head and wonder why do people think they can start a business they know nothing about.


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## y.painting (Jul 19, 2009)

John, as you can see, most of us have very different opinions on this topic and are not going to change them by back-and-forths on an internet forum. By this point in the thread, I think you should have read a wide enough range of opinions from all of us. Now, it is mostly up to you to decide what you want to do.

On the one hand, you can try to find work with a reputable and successful PC and work there for a year or two to gain some valuable experience. While there, be observant of the processes used, try to ask a lot of technique questions, and keep your future business aspirations to yourself.

On the other hand, you can open your doors now, but keep to small, non-complicated jobs while you gain experience with time.

What will you choose?


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## tntpainting (Apr 3, 2008)

word of mouth from good custumers is way better then a catchy name brother and you first need to find out how much money you need to make to stay in buissness and go from there good luck it can be a very rewarding life if your good at it


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## jonnythecutter (Mar 10, 2009)

dear jonnyg

there is a lot of good information on this site. i suggest reading this thread:
http://www.painttalk.com/f2/new-members-visitors-so-you-think-you-want-painting-contractor-2879/

also, if you're really serious about it, work for someone else for a while so you can learn your own speed, learn some 'old-school' techniques that will save you both time and money, and save you a load of costly mistakes on your own. if you commit to someone, and they get slow for part of the year, you should then be working for yourself, and likely they will lend you what you need and help you through your first solo flights.

friends and family don't make good clients. and you don't want the stress of not knowing what the hell you're doing while you're charging by the hour.

as for the business side of things, one is always learning. 

don't be discouraged by these crotchety replies, they actually mean well. i can give you some blogs and websites to look at if you're really serious, but i won't put those up here as it's against the rules. email me directly if you're that passionate and i'll help you out.

cheers for now, welcome, and good luck!

Jonny
Paint Well
Toronto


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