# This kills me...



## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

This morning I did a second walk through with a GC and the homeowners of a project I hope to get. It's a huge unit occupying the entire floor of a downtown condo. 

Part of the project is painting all of the beautiful woodwork in the dining room. We're talking burled walnut, two sets of pocket doors, crown etc, and it's killing me just thinking about it. I'm not one to stick my nose up at more work, but come on! 

I've been thinking about this all morning and just had to share. These camera phone pictures don't do the room justice.


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## wje (Apr 11, 2009)

Paul, those kill me too. 

I always triple check that painting is the route they want to go..


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

wje said:


> Paul, those kill me too.
> 
> I always triple check that painting is the route they want to go..


Yep, and after talking to her, she's adamant about spraying it all. I just feel like I'm breaking some "painters code" by painting it all. Oh well, as long as it pays.


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## wje (Apr 11, 2009)

Yep, I hear yea. I know by your other jobs you have posted, that no matter the route they go it is going to look amazing. I guess if they have a full floor of a condo building they can probably appreciate a professional job. 

Keep us updated.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Yep, and after talking to her, she's adamant about spraying it all. I just feel like I'm breaking some "painters code" by painting it all. Oh well, as long as it pays.


Laugh it up funny dude. Veltman did that like 9 years ago. Been cursed by the spray gods ever since.


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## Brian339 (Mar 15, 2009)

I hear were your coming from but you need to look at it as a substrate and a paycheck.


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

You probably do to- but I always make sure that they know this is a one way deal- no turning back.
And that is some nice looking wood.
But I get that some people don't like the heavy look of wood, and they didn't buy the place for it. 
ya gotta do what they want in the end.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> Laugh it up funny dude. Veltman did that like 9 years ago. Been cursed by the spray gods ever since.


I_ knew_ this hurt you the most Scott.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> I_ knew_ this hurt you the most Scott.


Yah, it used to hurt, but now we paint miles of mahogany and sapele. That room would be a bummer though, having just completed a stain grade and clear formal room like that recently.


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## playedout6 (Apr 27, 2009)

We did a library like this about 8 years ago in a huge home . I thought he was crazy...but it turned out OK painted . It really brightened up the room which is the goal of most people when they do this stuff . He was from Atlanta and he was different and a know it all and I'll leave it at that . He also had pictures of him and Lady Di at a party...so he was connected and very rich of course . LOL...we were also told him and Elton John were ...ahem...good buddies .


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> Yah, it used to hurt, but now we paint miles of mahogany and sapele. That room would be a bummer though, having just completed a stain grade and clear formal room like that recently.


That _was_ a pretty sweet room Scott. :thumbsup:

There's plenty of dark, stained trim packs put up in the 90s that I have no problem switching over to paint. Those production houses, and that _"look" _just don't work for me now. But this expensive, and great looking woodwork is almost a sin to paint IMHO.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

Ouch. Kinda like getting punched in the gut!


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> This morning I did a second walk through with a GC and the homeowners of a project I hope to get. It's a huge unit occupying the entire floor of a downtown condo.
> 
> Part of the project is painting all of the beautiful woodwork in the dining room. We're talking burled walnut, two sets of pocket doors, crown etc, and it's killing me just thinking about it. I'm not one to stick my nose up at more work, but come on!
> 
> I've been thinking about this all morning and just had to share. These camera phone pictures don't do the room justice.


That would certainly make me wince! OTOH, as long as there's a good solid clearcoat on it, some painter in the next generation can make a bunch of money stripping it down.

/The Circle of Paint

I know what you mean about lightening it up, my grandparent's house in Evanston has a ton of woodwork like that and the rooms are so dark that it's a little depressing.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> This morning I did a second walk through with a GC and the homeowners of a project I hope to get. It's a huge unit occupying the entire floor of a downtown condo.
> 
> Part of the project is painting all of the beautiful woodwork in the dining room. We're talking burled walnut, two sets of pocket doors, crown etc, and it's killing me just thinking about it. I'm not one to stick my nose up at more work, but come on!
> 
> I've been thinking about this all morning and just had to share. These camera phone pictures don't do the room justice.


Terrible. 

How do you plan to do it?


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Spray a coat of booth coat on it first! Then, when the next generation of Schmidt painting bids it to remove the paint, they will make good money!

And, this last project of spray stain, woodsong II, SealCoat, and enduro-var turned out pretty good.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

NEPS.US said:


> Terrible.
> 
> How do you plan to do it?


Sand, clean, caulk, putty, spray prime, sand, check caulk & putty & two coat spray paint.


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## Brian C (Oct 8, 2011)

I think thats a terrible situation to paint over beautiful old polished timber. Its almost vandalism. I would tell the homeowners your point of view.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

:whistling2:


Schmidt & Co. said:


> Sand, clean, caulk, putty, spray prime, sand, check caulk & putty & two coat spray paint.



Minor difference in opinion: I always clean first then sand or wax so contaminants are not spread around by sanding or ground into the surface.


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## benthepainter (Jun 17, 2011)

Brian C said:


> I think thats a terrible situation to paint over beautiful old polished timber. Its almost vandalism. I would tell the homeowners your point of view.


G'day Brian

I feel the same about painting over nice timber I don't mind painting over timber if it looks like crap


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

Its beautiful and burl is expensive but its really dated and dark looking.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

DeanV said:


> :whistling2:
> 
> 
> Minor difference in opinion: I always clean first then sand or wax so contaminants are not spread around by sanding or ground into the surface.


If I detect any surface contaminants I'll clean first also. Should prolly make it a matter of course. :thumbsup:


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## tntpainting (Apr 3, 2008)

Why would they wa.t to paint that beautiful wood ? That's my first question


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## Ultimate (Mar 20, 2011)

vermontpainter said:


> Yah, it used to hurt, but now we paint miles of mahogany and sapele. That room would be a bummer though, having just completed a stain grade and clear formal room like that recently.


Got a link to some pics Scott?


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

HouseOfColor said:


> Got a link to some pics Scott?


I believe this was the room. http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...3289825702.155046.280423240702&type=1&theater


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

HouseOfColor said:


> Got a link to some pics Scott?


Its the one Paul linked. We also posted some clear spray footage on yt of the same room. Those all wood rooms are alot of work.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> Its the one Paul linked. We also posted some clear spray footage on yt of the same room. Those all wood rooms are alot of work.


That room sure turned out pretty sweet. :thumbsup:

I've never done a room like that from start to finish, other than painting over it.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> That room sure turned out pretty sweet. :thumbsup:
> 
> I've never done a room like that from start to finish, other than painting over it.


Thanks Paul. Yah, its a lot to do. From the moment you take it over from the carpenters its non stop. We even did the floor on that one because we didnt want the floor crew to come through and bang it up.


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> I believe this was the room. http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...3289825702.155046.280423240702&type=1&theater



i hate the look of old paneled walls. that room looks suffocating.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Xmark said:


> i hate the look of old paneled walls. that room looks suffocating.


Stick it in a 10k sf house thats mostly white on white, hit the oak bar and plunk your arse down on the leather couch sipping scotch and staring into the fire and its a good kind of suffocating.


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

vermontpainter said:


> Stick it in a 10k sf house thats mostly white on white, hit the oak bar and plunk your arse down on the leather couch sipping scotch and staring into the fire and its a good kind of suffocating.



sipping scotch would make any room comfy.:thumbsup:


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## Ultimate (Mar 20, 2011)

Shame on them Paul. Please share the after.


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## ColorQuest (Mar 19, 2012)

If the customer loves it, I love it.
Jay


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

HouseOfColor said:


> Shame on them Paul. Please share the after.


I'm still in the bidding phase, but I will if I get it.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> I'm still in the bidding phase, but I will if I get it.


Build in a dts into the price, if you dont already have one. Or even a rs2. That'd be bomb.


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> I'm still in the bidding phase, but I will if I get it.


looks very expensive to paint


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Dave Mac said:


> looks very expensive to paint


Nah, its tree fiddy. :whistling2::jester:


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> Build in a dts into the price, if you dont already have one. Or even a rs2. That'd be bomb.


Its already priced out, but will be using my DTS 400 to sand the bulk of it. My next (and hopefully last) major purchase will be a linear sander and a mini extractor combo.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Its already priced out, but will be using my DTS 400 to sand the bulk of it. My next (and hopefully last) major purchase will be a linear sander and a mini extractor combo.


Good luck with that. :no:


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Paul, get the midi instead of the mini.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> Paul, get the midi instead of the mini.


Refresh my memory as to whats the smallest one. Reason being is I know I'll use the smallest one more. My CT 26 is great for the larger jobs that I'm on for extended periods of time, but I've found that I tend to not bring it on the smaller jobs because I'm limited on space in the truck.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Refresh my memory as to whats the smallest one. Reason being is I know I'll use the smallest one more. My CT 26 is great for the larger jobs than I'm on for extended periods of time, but I've found that I tend to not bring it on the smaller jobs because I limited on space in the truck.


The mini is smaller capacity (2.6 gal) while the midi is 3.9 gal. Those are container capacities. Bag capacities are 2 vs 3.3. Other than that, they are virtually identical. Same footprint, same motor, same garage, same everything. They even weigh pretty much the same when empty. The only real advantage is that the mini weighs less when full.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I am going to get a small festool vac as well. The 32 stays in the shop. The 26 is for larger jobs. A mini or midi would be nice for smaller repaint jobs as an always stay in the van vac.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I love my midi, I have really put it to the test. I knew after visiting Festool that they were the same only capacity being different, so I went for the smaller footprint. 

It does get full and need a new bag pretty fast on large extraction jobs, but it has performed like a champ in all tasks. Two weeks ago I had it attached to a grinder scarfing concrete. Had to empty the bag twice for a small job, but its a worker.


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## TrueColors (Jul 30, 2010)

No big deal... Yeah it sucks but just paint it. I'm sure its just veneer... It can always be stripped with paint remover and refinished back to the wood. That being said it has a finish on it already so paint doesn't soak into the pores of the wood.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Lately I've walked in a number of turn of the century homes with trim work still natural. I make sure i compliment them on how no one has ruined such beautiful wood with paint.

just trying to reinforce their preference NOT to paint over it.

Paul, too bad they won't save some of it and just paint enough to lighten the room up. as much as i love that much wood, it does look dark and oppressive after awhile. A room like that has to be huge to carry that much weight of dark wood


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## David's Painting (Nov 7, 2012)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Its already priced out, but will be using my DTS 400 to sand the bulk of it. My next (and hopefully last) major purchase will be a linear sander and a mini extractor combo.


Noob question. Can any sander hook up to a festool dust extractor and work reasonably well? Their sanders are a bit pricey.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

David's Painting said:


> Noob question. Can any sander hook up to a festool dust extractor? Their sanders are a bit pricey.


I really don't know. I'm sure there's a way to get the Festool hose to fit _your_ sander, but the trick would be finding the right connector.


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## dg1267 (Dec 6, 2012)

Ugh! This makes me sick. I can't stand to see any wood painted. It's just not the right thing to do most times. But THAT wood??? I can't even imagine pulling the trigger for the first time on a spray gun aimed at it. I would probably vomit all over the place.


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## David's Painting (Nov 7, 2012)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> I really don't know. I'm sure there's a way to get the Festool hose to fit your sander, but the trick would be finding the right connector.


Duct tape haha


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

David's Painting said:


> Duct tape haha


I'm a big fan of the duct tape.


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## Northwest_painter (Jan 27, 2012)

That is insane to destroy that wood. I would tell the owner painting that rare wood will drop the value of the condo by 30%.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

David's Painting said:


> Noob question. Can any sander hook up to a festool dust extractor and work reasonably well? Their sanders are a bit pricey.


Yea most any hand sander will work, the problem will be the shorter cord on the sander. It will drive you nuts because you will be working and pull the vac along, but the shorter cord will continually unplug itself.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

I dont think the autostart would work either. The biggest annoyance probably is the connection between the sander dust port and the vac hose not being very compatible.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Autostart works with pretty much any tool or any electrical connection I have tried. Its just the cords will constantly unplug or you will have to run an extension.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

DeanV said:


> I am going to get a small festool vac as well. The 32 stays in the shop. The 26 is for larger jobs. A mini or midi would be nice for smaller repaint jobs as an always stay in the van vac.


 Mini Van!:whistling2:


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

dg1267 said:


> Ugh! This makes me sick. I can't stand to see any wood painted. It's just not the right thing to do most times. But THAT wood??? I can't even imagine pulling the trigger for the first time on a spray gun aimed at it. I would probably vomit all over the place.


 Textured Paint!:yes:


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

This sucks Paul. Shame you could not justify removing the burl and replacing it with paint grade or even drywall. Then the burl could be given to me.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

The auto start will work. There are all kinds of adapters that may work to hook another sander up to a festool but you could of packaged the sander and the extractor together and brought it down some.


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## SparkoMatic (Nov 11, 2012)

If someone wanted me to paint this room, I would not blink an eyelash. It is not my home to worry about the decor. 

Satisfying the customer is #1!


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

SparkoMatic said:


> If someone wanted me to paint this room, I would not blink an eyelash. It is not my home to worry about the decor.
> 
> Satisfying the customer is #1!


I agree. I've never commented on a customers decorating ideas, nor will I. I'm just posting my thoughts here with you guys, because I'd never say it to the customer and just wanted to share.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

Northwest_painter said:


> That is insane to destroy that wood. I would tell the owner painting that rare wood will drop the value of the condo by 30%.


Having worked in 'Downtown Condos' that's a negative. Them kind of people bring the game of keeping up with the Jonses to a whole another level I've noticed. If they don't like it white, guess what, they'll rip it out, toss it in the dumpster and redo the whole thing bigger and better than the people got down the hall. I swear. I seen it.


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## David's Painting (Nov 7, 2012)

Oden said:


> Having worked in 'Downtown Condos' that's a negative. Them kind of people bring the game of keeping up with the Jonses to a whole another level I've noticed. If they don't like it white, guess what, they'll rip it out, toss it in the dumpster and redo the whole thing bigger and better than the people got down the hall. I swear. I seen it.


When you get a certain clientele, it's all about keeping up with the Jonses. It definitely ain't a bad thing from a trades standpoint.


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## Custom Brush Co. (Jan 26, 2011)

DeanV said:


> :whistling2:
> 
> Minor difference in opinion: I always clean first then sand or wax so contaminants are not spread around by sanding or ground into the surface.


Yes, with lacquer thinner...


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

David's Painting said:


> When you get a certain clientele, it's all about keeping up with the Jonses. It definitely ain't a bad thing from a trades standpoint.


 The problem with trying to keep up with the Jones is once you do they refinance!:yes:


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> I agree. I've never commented on a customers decorating ideas, nor will I. I'm just posting my thoughts here with you guys, because I'd never say it to the customer and just wanted to share.


Tell 'em there's no freakin' way you're gonna paint over that...then storm out.
(be sure to slam the door too)


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

David's Painting said:


> When you get a certain clientele, it's all about keeping up with the Jonses. It definitely ain't a bad thing from a trades standpoint.


We did two jobs along these lines in a neighborhood, although the woodwork wasn't nearly as nice. As we were starting the second one, the first client called us up and insisted that we NOT use the same (custom) color that we had used on her house. She complained that the second client "had been copying me for years." Maybe in NY or MA you guys are used to this sort of nonsense, but it was a first for us.


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## wje (Apr 11, 2009)

Gough said:


> We did two jobs along these lines in a neighborhood, although the woodwork wasn't nearly as nice. As we were starting the second one, the first client called us up and insisted that we NOT use the same (custom) color that we had used on her house. She complained that the second client "had been copying me for years." Maybe in NY or MA you guys are used to this sort of nonsense, but it was a first for us.


Lol, I have had that happen once.. usually it is the first client being so self absorbed, that they think everyone who follows a trend, is following their lead.. They usually just need somebody to straighten them out and then they get it.

Unfortunately due to my position as their contractor, I never am able to get the joy of giving them a reality check, but one of these days.....


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## sully9er (Jan 24, 2011)

Gough said:


> We did two jobs along these lines in a neighborhood, although the woodwork wasn't nearly as nice. As we were starting the second one, the first client called us up and insisted that we NOT use the same (custom) color that we had used on her house. She complained that the second client "had been copying me for years." Maybe in NY or MA you guys are used to this sort of nonsense, but it was a first for us.


House we did was painted this nice dark blue. Only one in the historic neighborhood. Then the neighbors get an addition. They are right behind them, only seperated by an alley. They decided to use the exact same color as the other house. Let me tell you the original color house owners were pissed.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

sully9er said:


> House we did was painted this nice dark blue. Only one in the historic neighborhood. Then the neighbors get an addition. They are right behind them, only seperated by an alley. They decided to use the exact same color as the other house. Let me tell you the original color house owners were pissed.


 They blue up?


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

Paul is this the project we were talking about? Let me know if you want me there, would be happy to lend a hand and this project would be amazing for an episode 

Sucks, that wood is gorgeous  She should at least D/W over it or something..


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## ROOMINADAY (Mar 20, 2009)

If they ever want it back, Michael Tust can bring it back to it's former glory!


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

nEighter said:


> Paul is this the project we were talking about? Let me know if you want me there, would be happy to lend a hand and this project would be amazing for an episode
> 
> Sucks, that wood is gorgeous  She should at least D/W over it or something..


No its not, but its in the same building. The other project is almost done, but they made it way to difficult with the schedule to bring you in. I was doing a week of work, talking off two weeks etc. Once i figured out thats the way it was going to go, I didnt want to waste your time. 

Sorry bro.


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

No worries man. Has that job been good for you?


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

nEighter said:


> No worries man. Has that job been good for you?


It's been kind of f'd up actually. They are having major problems with the marble floor installation. They keep having to tear up portions and re-do it, thus messing up my work or just plain messing with my schedule. Heck, they haven't even grouted it yet because of all the problems! 

Either way, I make my last trip back there next week. Going to take care of my punch list, do some trade damage repair and then I'm done. 

I DID get the job in the unit two floors down, so when we are done touching up, all I have to do is take the elevator to my next job! :thumbup:


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

I've got a cabinet job next week with some gorgeous cherry wood getting painted white. It kills me too! I wish I had cabinets that looked half that good! I hadn't heard back from them in a month or so, and kinda hoped they didn't want to paint after all. Got the email yesterday confirming the job. 
Now I'm just deciding between cabinet coat which is what I used on their friends house, or breakthrough. Leaning towards CC at this point.


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> It's been kind of f'd up actually. They are having major problems with the marble floor installation. They keep having to tear up portions and re-do it, thus messing up my work or just plain messing with my schedule. Heck, they haven't even grouted it yet because of all the problems!
> 
> Either way, I make my last trip back there next week. Going to take care of my punch list, do some trade damage repair and then I'm done.
> 
> I DID get the job in the unit two floors down, so we will are done touching up, all I have to do is take the elevator to my next job! :thumbup:


EXCELLENT! :thumbsup: Good luck to you as always  oh.. and the murderous pics? Please


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Damon T said:


> I've got a cabinet job next week with some gorgeous cherry wood getting painted white. It kills me too! I wish I had cabinets that looked half that good! I hadn't heard back from them in a month or so, and kinda hoped they didn't want to paint after all. Got the email yesterday confirming the job.
> Now I'm just deciding between cabinet coat which is what I used on their friends house, or breakthrough. Leaning towards CC at this point.


Have you ever used wb lacquer? Its a much better cabinet finish than any other wb paint.


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## bullpen7979 (Apr 5, 2010)

Yep. Absolute shame to paint that. :blink:


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> Have you ever used wb lacquer? Its a much better cabinet finish than any other wb paint.


The ML Campbell? Or is it the SW kem aqua? What do you suggest?


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I haven't used MLC only SW KA+. I don't think you could go wrong with either. One would think since sw owns mlc this new product incorporates chemistry from mlc. Maybe not, but my results with ka+ have been stellar.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> I haven't used MLC only SW KA+. I don't think you could go wrong with either. One would think since sw owns mlc this new product incorporates chemistry from mlc. Maybe not, but my results with ka+ have been stellar.


The TDS on the KA plus looks amazing! My store is going to try to get some in. They said its only available in 5'ers here. Does the surfacer have really good adhesion? Typically I'd be going over previously finished catalyzed lacquers etc. obviously I would clean and sand well, but couldn't find much on the TDS for the primer on adhesion. 

Have you used their WB pigmented lacquer? Looks like a similar product, although the KA plus says its more resistant to micro foaming than the other WB coatings. 

Thanks for the tips!


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> I haven't used MLC only SW KA+. I don't think you could go wrong with either. One would think since sw owns mlc this new product incorporates chemistry from mlc. Maybe not, but my results with ka+ have been stellar.


Also, have you used the retarders with them or just shoot it straight up?


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## more_prep (Dec 7, 2009)

In my tests, KA+ was far better than MLC Agualente in ease of spraying without defects (like craters, microbubbles, and particles), sag resistance, and most important, final hardness. If you want MLC to match the hardness of KA, you can use their post-cat product. Both the KA+ and MLC primers are great and sand to a powder, but the older KA primer is hard to sand. The KA+ pigmented lacquer is like a retarded, pre-reduced version of Kem Aqua. Applies with less than 2% thinning, but takes longer to dry and cure. Different chemistry, though. Both KA and KA+ pigmented tend to sag easily, and you will have a hard time applying them to a vertical surface with anything less than a compliant gun (HVLP won't give a smooth finish unless surface is horizontal). Anyway, to me, KA and KA+ are the best pigmented coatings around for fine finishing without a spray booth...I've tried many...
Search the forum for more cabinet info...


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Damon T said:


> The TDS on the KA plus looks amazing! My store is going to try to get some in. They said its only available in 5'ers here. Does the surfacer have really good adhesion? Typically I'd be going over previously finished catalyzed lacquers etc. obviously I would clean and sand well, but couldn't find much on the TDS for the primer on adhesion.
> 
> Have you used their WB pigmented lacquer? Looks like a similar product, although the KA plus says its more resistant to micro foaming than the other WB coatings.
> 
> Thanks for the tips!


I think adhesion is excellent, but the system is made for new wood. My rep backed off when I started asking about using it for repaints. I don't think you will have any issues, clean really well and degloss. I got the impression from my rep that I was on my own if a failure occurred. DeanV hit the nail on the head that all cabinet systems are designed for new work. 

If you wanted to test I think an adhesion primer first, and then the surfacer for sanding would be an option I would consider. Like I said though, I haven't had any adhesion problems. Only have seen cheap latex soften on our current repaint when applying ka surfacer over it. Next day it hardend back up and sanded down no problem. 

Microfoaming is an issue, however I didn't have any when using hvlp for application. The tds suggests hvlp for application. 



Damon T said:


> Also, have you used the retarders with them or just shoot it straight up?


Yes check out this thread, it does a pretty good job describing the last time we used it. http://www.painttalk.com/f24/tips-tricks-using-wb-lacquer-21629/


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Thanks SL

I can't believe I missed that thread. Actually I see I posted on it once but I missed the meat and potatoes part of it. That was a great thread. I'll have to talk to my SW rep, but it sounds like the surfacer is designed for new wood, and that we're taking things into our own hands going over existing surfaces. That being said the coating TDS talked about it passing 20 cold cycles (whatever that means) and says it has good flexibility, so that may be a plus in going over other finishes. I could see priming with BIn as a tie coat and then going from there. 
That hot plate is wicked cool! Or hot!
Sounds like you're using the krud kutter after water rinse to clean out the pump. I'll probably just use the hvlp, so should.be easier to clean, but will still be thorough.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Damon feel free to give me a call if you have any questions. I will be happy to talk to you about it. 

Once you use it you will see why its so much better suited for cabinet finishes than any other wb finish.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

First day on the job today and got it mostly sanded. Might get some primer up by the end of the day tomorrow. If anything, the before and after pictures should be rather dramatic.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

Gonna look good painted I think. brighten that room right up.


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## wje (Apr 11, 2009)

Hi Paul, What else are you guys doing in there? How big of a project is it?


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

wje said:


> Hi Paul, What else are you guys doing in there? How big of a project is it?


Doing most of the walls throughout. Not really any woodwork, other than the paneling. All told I have it figured for two weeks worth of work for three guys.


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## wje (Apr 11, 2009)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Doing most of the walls throughout. Not really any woodwork, other than the paneling. All told I have it figured for two weeks worth of work for three guys.


 
Awsome! Good job to have lined up for January. We are starting a 15 room cottage Thursday.

Oh remember to snap some pics when you finish up!!


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## more_prep (Dec 7, 2009)

You could charge extra to shellac it first. That way it will be easier for you to strip it if they change their minds, or if the next owner hires you to restore its former glory...
Just a crazy idea...


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

OK I guess Paul can have his thread back, even if it is covering up this walnut with paint. lol


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> OK I guess Paul can have his thread back, even if it is covering up this walnut with paint. lol


As you were. Far be it from me to get in the way of a good derail.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

No backing out now. Got it all primed today and I'm still in disbelief that I just did that.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Is that a dedicated pump for BIN? Considering BIN for a knotty pine conversion next week, but did not think alcohol oils play nice with a latex pump.


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## cdaniels (Oct 20, 2012)

It was a beautiful room before to me but it is going to be so much lighter and still look great.I'm sure the HO will be thrilled. :thumbup:


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

It's a crying shame cover up nice wood like that.

At least they hired the right guy to do it, I'm sure I'll turn out looking great.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

DeanV said:


> Is that a dedicated pump for BIN? Considering BIN for a knotty pine conversion next week, but did not think alcohol oils play nice with a latex pump.


It is now that I have the AAA, but it really wasn't much of a problem switching back and forth in he past. I just couldn't bring myself to run Bin through the new one, nor do I see myself ever. :no:


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

man talk about fumes, great job Paul


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Dave Mac said:


> man talk about fumes, great job Paul


Tell me about it. I didn't want to take any chances of any bleed through with that mahogany, so I picked Bin. But of course the good thing about it is he fumes go away pretty dam fast.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> It is now that I have the AAA, but it really wasn't much of a problem switching back and forth in he past. I just couldn't bring myself to run Bin through the new one, nor do I see myself ever. :no:


I wouldn't have done it either. Paul have you tried ammonia to flush bin instead of alcohol? The cheap dollar store kind works, I just cycle and then flush with water.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> Paul have you tried ammonia to flush bin instead of alcohol? The cheap dollar store kind works, I just cycle and then flush with water.


You know, I've heard about that for years and just have never tried it. Dose it really work the same? I've always been too paranoid to take a chance with any of my pumps.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

I always cleaned my Bin brushes with ammonia, as I could dump it down the sink. It's been a while, but I think I always cleaned my pump with alcohol because that's what it says on the label. I once forgot to flush the hose with thinner prior to switching from latex (water in lines) to BIN, and the hose instantly turned into solid BIN that could not be flushed, it was totally hardened instantly. Weird. Had to go buy a new hose. Fortunately I was able to clean the pump.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

That must have been a weird feeling spraying over that beautiful wood! Congrats on getting such nice work though!


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> You know, I've heard about that for years and just have never tried it. Dose it really work the same? I've always been too paranoid to take a chance with any of my pumps.


Yes it works well and can save $15-20 worth of alcohol. Its also not as explosive as alcohol. I have a dedicated bin pump now so it isn't to big a deal but it does save some money.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Got it all 1st coated today, and I'm REALLY liking my new AAA right about now. The only thing I need to figure out is the paint build up on the air cap I'm getting. After I figure out that, I'll be golden!


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

craftsmanship at its finest right their


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## wje (Apr 11, 2009)

That is looking awsome Paul.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

My iphone camera pictures dont do the job justice. Its only 1st coated right now, and this new sprayer just absolutely rocks wood paneling! I didn't quite get all the fuss after my first job using it. Sure, I liked it, but now I_ really_ like it.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Beautiful as always. What is the finish?


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

DeanV said:


> Beautiful as always. What is the finish?


Thanks Dean. Its 314, water base satin impervo.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Got it all 1st coated today, and I'm REALLY liking my new AAA right about now. The only thing I need to figure out is the paint build up on the air cap I'm getting. After I figure out that, I'll be golden!


Golden, you say? 

The Wood Gods are soo frowning upon you. Beware the Veltman Curse.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> Golden, you say?
> 
> The Wood Gods are soo frowning upon you. Beware the Veltman Curse.


Scott, I'm not looking at _any_ other sprayers right now. Its kind of like driving home from the dealer with your brand new BMW, and checking out the Mercedes next to you. Ain't gonna do it. :no:


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Scott, I'm not looking at _any_ other sprayers right now. Its kind of like driving home from the dealer with your brand new BMW, and checking out the Mercedes next to you. Ain't gonna do it. :no:


G40 is a hot rod. You are riding in style. 

Do your air orifices literally clog with paint or do they just look unsightly but still flow?


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Air and fluid still flow. I just am getting build-up at the tip. If I don't periodically clean it off, it will start to spit. So far I've just been keeping that tooth brush in my back pocket that you suggested, and cleaning it off in a bucket of water. I also take the tooth pick every so often and clean up the air holes.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Every painter that sprays need this http://ruddstore.com/catalog/produc...d=248&osCsid=6fd9e49e1c72fe823885c811c7e06f4c

and a set of dental pics for spray gun clean up.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Air and fluid still flow. I just am getting build-up at the tip. If I don't periodically clean it off, it will start to spit. So far I've just been keeping that tooth brush in my back pocket that you suggested, and cleaning it off in a bucket of water. I also take the tooth pick every so often and clean up the air holes.


The design of those air orifices, their orientation (they point sideways and are kind of eliptical) can withstand a great deal of build up without inhibiting air flow. We always pre-engage the trigger and feel the air at the start of a session, literally putting our hands a couple inches in front, and constantly do the same thing for the whole time. Its rare to see any decline in airflow, like never. I dont think paint build up at the orifices would cause a spit. The air just cakes the paint around the orifices, but doesnt blow it. Similar to paint build up at the fluid orifice. It can look like a truckload of smashed butt holes and still spray fine. 

If you are experiencing spitting, it could be unrelated to the visual you are getting externally. Although, your gun is rather new to develop internal wear that would lead to spitting. 

Is it spitting a gob like to clear itself or is it streaming at the end of trigger engagement?


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

With me, it can either pool enough paint on the face to spit or off the guard. I have not tried removing the guard on the G40 though. Thin finishes do it much more quickly.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

DeanV said:


> With me, it can either pool enough paint on the face to spit or off the guard. I have not tried removing the guard on the G40 though. Thin finishes do it much more quickly.


We get clogs in the tip where the fan pattern will go batcrap for a second, but its a quick reverse and blow. 

I would check the seat housing and gasket seat for score marks or any imperfection and go further internal from there. It is one of those things where you should be breaking the gun down and cleaning well, but in doing so, you run the risk of scratching or scoring. It doesn't take much to upset a precision instrument like the g40. 

Got to be something like that in your case, Dean, because it is just too good of a gun to be giving you such a hard time. We have put more hours on our g40 than any other aaa gun. The gun is not the first component of the 395 to have issues. We are in our 3rd year with it.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> Is it spitting a gob like to clear itself or is it streaming at the end of trigger engagement?


I'm getting crap built up on the tip, and then some of it will fly off. I'll try to remember to take a picture on Monday.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> I'm getting crap built up on the tip, and then some of it will fly off. I'll try to remember to take a picture on Monday.


One thing I can tell you is that its a very good idea if you can keep your pump near a fresh (ideally cool) air source. That is one flaw in the electric aaa pump/compressor rigs...they run hot. I always thought that was par for the course until we started running the pneumatic pumps, those suckers are stone cold all day long. If your compressor is a hot runner, you are sending warm air to the tip, and you can see where that becomes an issue.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Which air cap do you guys have? Not sure I have noticed a difference between the versions, more the viscosity of finish.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

I have the one on the right.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Dean

We have the one on the left.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

This is the aaf style from the g15, which you can get a conversion for your g40.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

And these are the orifices on the Xcite.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> This is the aaf style from the g15, which you can get a conversion for your g40.


Have you used it Scott?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Have you used it Scott?


The g15 with aaf style yes. We have not put the aaf tip on the g40 though.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Paul

What fluid pressure did you land on with the 314 in this thread?


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

What do you mean by "AAF"?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

DeanV said:


> What do you mean by "AAF"?


Non reversible. More hvlp style. 

http://www.graco.com/content/dam/graco/ipd/literature/flyers/344831/344831EN-B.pdf


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> Paul
> 
> What fluid pressure did you land on with the 314 in this thread?


30 psi air, 1200 fluid.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> Non reversible. More hvlp style.
> 
> http://www.graco.com/content/dam/graco/ipd/literature/flyers/344831/344831EN-B.pdf


So I assume it uses standard flat tips?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> 30 psi air, 1200 fluid.


That is what makes the g15 such an interesting option. With aaa, much of what we do is pretty well under the max 1500 psi that the g15 is rated for. 

AAF style tips are MUCH less likely to clog, spit or get finicky compared to RAC style. 

BUT, if they happen to clog, you have to be quick in resolving the problem mid task. Its not as simple as reverse and shoot. 

Just as an example (and only because we have used it considerably more than the g15), the Xcite does not clog. At. All. Or spit. Its flawless, but again that is because it is operating at such low pressure, with cool air, even with fairly viscous product (like the Duration ext in our EOS video). The aaf style is inherently cleaner and more efficient than rac. Its a more sophisticated technology. 

And guess what? WAY easier to clean at the end of a session.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> So I assume it uses standard flat tips?


Page 8 shows a schematic of the tip and air cap:

http://wwwd.graco.com/Distributors/DLibrary.nsf/Files/311001/$file/311001G.pdf


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

With our ca tech aaa guns (also flat tip), the only clogging is when the finish dries in the orifice of the flat tip between coats. 90% of the time or more running a single edge razor through the opening before spraying takes care of the problem. The worst that can happen is if the tip is clogged, you pull the trigger, and fluid finds its way through the seal in the air cap into the air passage way, as long as you clean it right away, no big deal.

Also, because of how much I run in and out of the shop to spray coats, I tend to let the AAA sit in finish more than I should. Flushing more frequently would make a big difference.


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

when i take breaks i just leave the gun in a bucket of water. I'll use a toothbrush to clean the tip and then shake off the excess water and I'm good to go.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Paul you have to get in the habit of cleaning the air cap with a wire brush ever so many pulls. Acrylics are bad for buildup. Keeping the air triggered the entire time will keep the air holes clear, but the build up will spit eventually if not removed. 

Spraying on the flat is the worst, and when I am doing cabinets I wipe clean every door.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Looks great so far! What did you use for undercoat?


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

TJ Paint said:


> Looks great so far! What did you use for undercoat?


Thanks TJ, I used 3.5 gallons of Bin.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Ok. Here's the air cap after about 4-5 minutes of spraying this morning. Thats the kind of build up that will occasionally fly off if I don't keep up with cleaning. Frustrating, but still workable for me.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Paul

That looks awful. We don't get that even in 4 hours of non stop use. I think you said you are running 314? Is that what that is? Man, I hope that wasnt BIN. If 314, are you thinning?


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

314 straight out of the can, un thinned.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

You must be special then Scott, that is exactly how mine looks after spraying about 3-4 minutes worth of pulls with most coatings.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Thats insane. No kidding. We (mostly Todd) have put literally hundreds, maybe more hours on the g40 and have not seen that kind of mess. 

How close do you get to the surfaces you are spraying?


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Given the pressure you are spraying Paul, I wonder if my caps were partially clogged because we had pressure closer to 2000. 310 tip?


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> How close do you get to the surfaces you are spraying?


I try to average 12''


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

DeanV said:


> Given the pressure you are spraying Paul, I wonder if my caps were partially clogged because we had pressure closer to 2000. 310 tip?


Yep, 310 tip.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

DeanV said:


> Given the pressure you are spraying Paul, I wonder if my caps were partially clogged because we had pressure closer to 2000. 310 tip?


What was the air at when we were shooting at your place?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

I wish there was a demo room here in the halls of pt where we could just set up a 395 and figure this out. 

Todd and I sprayed together today and it really is helpful to have someone watch your technique and figure out what you are doing. Todd found a couple of bad habits I had going on that were just not working with with the set up we had going, which he had been acing all morning. Two simple tweaks and our work became identical. 

The g40 issue is pretty nuts. To see that after just a few pulls is just not right.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Paul, 

From the orientation of the tip set up in the pic you posted above, is it safe to conclude that you spray more horizontally than vertically? Or do you find yourself changing the orientation frequently?


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> Paul,
> 
> From the orientation of the tip set up in the pic you posted above, is it safe to conclude that you spray more horizontally than vertically? Or do you find yourself changing the orientation frequently?


Yes, mostly horizontally. I'll occasionally set it vertical, but it just doesn't "feel" right.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Yes, mostly horizontally. I'll occasionally set it vertical, but it just doesn't "feel" right.


Top down or bottom up?


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> Top down or bottom up?


First rule in the book Scott, top down.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Do not recall, fairly high though.

It has to be air causing it, maybe more pressure less air?

That was more like build up thin clears gave me. I could only spray 1 cabinet door, laying flat, before fluid would drip from build up.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> First rule in the book Scott, top down.


There are some good reasons to break that one sometimes. But I don't think it is causing this problem.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

DeanV said:


> Do not recall, fairly high though.
> 
> It has to be air causing it, maybe more pressure less air?
> 
> That was more like build up thin clears gave me. I could only spray 1 cabinet door, laying flat, before fluid would drip from build up.


That is the only thing I have found to work every time. Of course you turn down the air, and you have to turn up the pressure. Kinda self defeating, and you might as well go airless when you get above 1500.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Oh and I hope we can find some time to talk about this and go over your reference guide in St Louis. Maybe Todd can teach us how to spray with it like he does.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> There are some good reasons to break that one sometimes. But I don't think it is causing this problem.


I know, and I'll break it on occasion also. In this case, I ran all the crown and the underside of the soffits. I then brought down each section of paneling, then moved over to the next.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Given that all 3 of you guys have the same issue, and you are all competent pros, the only guess I have is that you are hotboxing your air and fluids. 

It is endemic to electric pumps and becomes especially clear every time we run one of the pneumatics.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Define "hot boxing".


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

if it's such a big issue i'd change that gun over to a flat tip. you'll have to strain your products much better but rcon (or someone) says the flat tip has zero issues.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

straight_lines said:


> Oh and I hope we can find some time to talk about this and go over your reference guide in St Louis. Maybe Todd can teach us how to spray with it like he does.


He's a nazi. He spends alot of time with the machines, and looks at every aspect. Theres a check list. I tend machine and product for him in most spray sessions. Every one, whether shop or field, starts and ends the same way, and everything in between is methodical as hell. 

I am sure he would love to talk spraying with you guys. 

I am just throwing ideas out there from our habits. I get yelled at once in a while for skipping a step here and there. 

Do you guys strain every time no matter what?

Do you shut down pump and compressor with the same diligence that you shut down a pressure washer when not under load?

And this is a big one. When we talk pressures, its pressure under trigger engagement, not idling. There can be a big difference. 

Are you guys running stock gun and manifold filters?


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Grr lost my reply.. 

Yes I always strain, its something I have always done even when spraying walls or ceilings. Stock filters. I do try and keep the air triggered the whole time the compressor is running. Auto finishing habit that I have carried over. I don't let it run for more than a minute or two, usually just when moving.

You are right about pressure, it should be clarified pressure under load not idle.


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

DeanV said:


> Define "hot boxing".


Electric pumps run hot. Bolt a constantly running small compressor on, and you intensify the problem. Some guys are now even heating up their paints. Long story short, you are merging hot air and warm fluid at the tip. Its a great way to create drying right at that point of turbulence. 

Ever notice how you can feel the vibration of the hose because it is under so much pressure? Everything about the combination of all of this is creating heat.

We will get clammy buildup in the tip and guard area, but not baked and caked like in Paul's pic. That looks like my airless 515 after a full day in super spec. 

We try to spray (shop or field) in the coolest bearable temps. It keeps things wet longer. At the tip, and on the sprayed surfaces you are trying to lay down. The longer things stay wet, the better they lay (sic). So, we have always put our pump as far away from the work as possible, and find whatever way possible to create a draft of cool fresh air to it. Your compressor is drawing in air to replace what it sends out. Our shop is designed in such a way that we can locate a pump right next to a cracked window. Same on jobs. Whatever you can do to cool things down translates every step of the way out to the tip and surfaces. 

This all becomes clear when you run aaa for a while where the compressor is running constantly (ours can get real hot so we shut it down and cool it every chance we get, and do tip maintenance at the same time), and then you go to a dedicated air system driving a non electric pump. Stone cold and low pressure. The conclusion we take from pneumatic back to electric aaa is to cool everything down and get pressures down as much as you can until the fan breaks up, then you know where your line is. 

One more variable I should have thrown in an earlier post, related to pressures and settings...how are you guys using the control on the gun itself?


----------



## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> Grr lost my reply..
> 
> Yes I always strain, its something I have always done even when spraying walls or ceilings. Stock filters. I do try and keep the air triggered the whole time the compressor is running. Auto finishing habit that I have carried over. I don't let it run for more than a minute or two, usually just when moving.
> 
> You are right about pressure, it should be clarified pressure under load not idle.


I'm working on keeping the air triggered the whole time, but I'm having a hard time breaking my airless habits. Right now I prolly only have the air triggered only 25% of the time, if that. 

And I'm at 1200 fluid, under pressure.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> I'm working on keeping the air triggered the whole time, but I'm having a hard time breaking my airless habits. Right now I prolly only have the air triggered only 25% of the time, if that.


So your compressor unloader is working overtime (and hot). Thats something you want to change for sure.


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Scott for the gun air control I usually set the air high on the pump and adjust it about 3/4 down from full on the gun.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

straight_lines said:


> Scott for the gun air control I usually set the air high on the pump and adjust it about 3/4 down from full on the gun.


That is a good thing to do. Crank the compressor at the pump and tone it down at the gun. That saves the unloader alot of work.

We have been having a compressor issue lately on our 395 where it is difficult to build more than 32 psi. Guess we trained it too well. 

Running it high at the pump is good. The valve at the gun can take it.


----------



## johnny949 (Apr 13, 2012)

vermontpainter said:


> Electric pumps run hot. Bolt a constantly running small compressor on, and you intensify the problem. Some guys are now even heating up their paints. Long story short, you are merging hot air and warm fluid at the tip. Its a great way to create drying right at that point of turbulence.
> 
> Ever notice how you can feel the vibration of the hose because it is under so much pressure? Everything about the combination of all of this is creating heat.
> 
> ...



Very well stated...thanks for writing this up.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Paul

By the way, the crown you posted looks dynamite. You are getting the results, but I think once you get it dialed, the experience will be smoother for you. Lots of products fall in that same viscosity and settings range as 314, so if you solve that one you solve many.


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## DiscountHousePainter (Jul 8, 2012)

You're work is looking amazing! I know what you mean though, it's a shame to see that beautiful wood being painted!  Sometimes though we gotta do things we don't wanna do to make a buck. I'm from the Cincinnati area and a long time Bengals fan. Last year I had to paint a basement that was done up in oranges and black. The stenciled and painted a huge Bengal tiger and had stripes on the wall and did an excellent job. The guy had bengals sofa and recliner and all kinds of bengals stuff to match but was selling the house and was afraid it could hurt the value. Lol I even debated turning it down but I went a little high with my price and he took it so I had to do it. I took pics of it though and plan on doing it at my next house as I don't have a basement now. Sucks to see that wood get covered up but you're doing an excellent job!:thumbsup:


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> I know, and I'll break it on occasion also. In this case, I ran all the crown and the underside of the soffits. I then brought down each section of paneling, then moved over to the next.


Flipping amazing work Paul! Sorry to hear about the tip clogging. You guys are helping a lot of people I'm sure by problem solving here. Again, beautiful work!


----------



## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

I sure learn a lot from VP's posts. Someday I'm gonna go back and read all of them.



Never mind...I just noticed he's got 12,434.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> Paul
> 
> By the way, the crown you posted looks dynamite.


I hear the voice off J.J from Good Times when I read this but I agree the work looks great.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Does anyone else thing that between the ProShot fiasco and the tip build up on the FinishPro, it is time for Graco to quit having us pay good money for tools that are clearly in beta? Do they not field test their new stuff at all?

If it is just me and the curse, so be it. I can deal. But, come on. Straightlines, Schmidt, others here, others at finishing forums, this is beyond Windows computer bad, this is beyond paint formula tweaking bad, this is beyond any other crappy customer experience I have had. If you ask a Graco rep., they know less than NOTHING. Even the standard "No one else is having this problem" crap is good answer from them.


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

DeanV said:


> Does anyone else thing that between the ProShot fiasco and the tip build up on the FinishPro, it is time for Graco to quit having us pay good money for tools that are clearly in beta? Do they not field test their new stuff at all?
> 
> If it is just me and the curse, so be it. I can deal. But, come on. Straightlines, Schmidt, others here, others at finishing forums, this is beyond Windows computer bad, this is beyond paint formula tweaking bad, this is beyond any other crappy customer experience I have had. If you ask a Graco rep., they know less than NOTHING. Even the standard "No one else is having this problem" crap is good answer from them.


is Titan having the same problem with their AA gun? i suppose an option would be to buy a titan gun {and throw away the $800 g40 ,lol) or put a flat tip on the g40.

it's hard to believe that vp isn't having the same issue as everyone else. i don't believe for a second that the warm compressor air is the issue.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I have an extra CA tech Cougar gun in the shop, looks like a Kremlin. I suspect they need more air than the Finish pro can deliver to perform optimally, but once I swap out the neede assembly, I will through that on the FinishPro and give it a try.


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

DeanV said:


> I have an extra CA tech Cougar gun in the shop, looks like a Kremlin. I suspect they need more air than the Finish pro can deliver to perform optimally, but once I swap out the neede assembly, I will through that on the FinishPro and give it a try.


if it was a hot air problem from the compressor the finishes would not look great. i don't think that anyone has complained about the look of the actual finish with acrylic or WB lacquer coatings. I know you have had problems with clear coats but most complain about the buildup on the cap. this leads me to believe that the air holes in the cap itself were not designed properly in order to keep them clean during extended hours of spraying.

i have an old turbine 3 stage hvlp where hot air IS the problem. i could not get nice finishes with acrylics because the hot air dried it out and it didn't atomize properly. i tried adding another 25 feet of hose to make the air cooler. that helped a bit but i was never happy with the finish.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

Hey Schmidt,that crown is fine!


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Steve Richards said:


> I sure learn a lot from VP's posts. Someday I'm gonna go back and read all of them.
> 
> 
> 
> Never mind...I just noticed he's got 12,434.


My '08 posts were long, but after that, they became quick reads. You can do it Steve.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Workaholic said:


> I hear the voice off J.J from Good Times when I read this but I agree the work looks great.


Right on!


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

DeanV said:


> I have an extra CA tech Cougar gun in the shop, looks like a Kremlin. I suspect they need more air than the Finish pro can deliver to perform optimally, but once I swap out the neede assembly, I will through that on the FinishPro and give it a try.


About the same.


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## paintcore.ca (Apr 5, 2010)

DeanV said:


> Does anyone else thing that between the ProShot fiasco and the tip build up on the FinishPro, it is time for Graco to quit having us pay good money for tools that are clearly in beta? Do they not field test their new stuff at all?
> 
> If it is just me and the curse, so be it. I can deal. But, come on. Straightlines, Schmidt, others here, others at finishing forums, this is beyond Windows computer bad, this is beyond paint formula tweaking bad, this is beyond any other crappy customer experience I have had. If you ask a Graco rep., they know less than NOTHING. Even the standard "No one else is having this problem" crap is good answer from them.


There is this old school spray repair guy that told me graco doesn't field test there stuff. He hates them with a passion. He might be bias cause he sells a ton of Titan. But I can see why he said that. Supposedly there a very arrogant company and there engineers think they are the best! No need to run field tests.
I think they are the biggest of the spray giants. They bought out binks in the past few years. Seems like they want to run a monopoly. I had a finish pro 290 for clears. What a piece of crap straight up! The air cap was totally designed wrong. Would clog up every few doors. The AA 30 gun it came with was to primitive for fine finishing. Trigger pulls was stiff. Basically it was a jazzed up contractor gun. Then I got the pro shot when it came out. Nearly shocked me to death. Always clogged up even with strained material. That product is a joke. Great idea but no follow through on engineering or design on Graco's part.
I have a multi finish as well. I prefer Titan over graco but even the multi finish is not good as a AAA unit. There is simply no comparison to pneumatic pumps and guns. They are refined and work great for there intended purpose. Titans and Gracos units are just posers on the block trying to be like the cool kids. They make great airless and ok hvlp and that's why there good at IMO.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

DeanV said:


> Does anyone else thing that between the ProShot fiasco and the tip build up on the FinishPro, it is time for Graco to quit having us pay good money for tools that are clearly in beta? Do they not field test their new stuff at all?
> 
> If it is just me and the curse, so be it. I can deal. But, come on. Straightlines, Schmidt, others here, others at finishing forums, this is beyond Windows computer bad, this is beyond paint formula tweaking bad, this is beyond any other crappy customer experience I have had. If you ask a Graco rep., they know less than NOTHING. Even the standard "No one else is having this problem" crap is good answer from them.


ProShot maybe. 

395 has been around for too long and unchanged. Seriously, I have local colleagues who also run this rig successfully. 

But it does start to look like those orange brushes that the bristles all fell out of when several people have the same issue. Unfortunately Dean, you are usually among the cursed. :jester:

I had Todd read the last 3 pages of this thread at lunch today. He was appalled by Paul's picture and the reports of this type of build up in less than 5 minutes. He compare it to ProShot rage (he's not the biggest PS fan).


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

paintcore.ca said:


> There is this old school spray repair guy that told me graco doesn't field test there stuff. He hates them with a passion. He might be bias cause he sells a ton of Titan. But I can see why he said that. Supposedly there a very arrogant company and there engineers think they are the best! No need to run field tests.
> I think they are the biggest of the spray giants. They bought out binks in the past few years. Seems like they want to run a monopoly. I had a finish pro 290 for clears. What a piece of crap straight up! The air cap was totally designed wrong. Would clog up every few doors. The AA 30 gun it came with was to primitive for fine finishing. Trigger pulls was stiff. Basically it was a jazzed up contractor gun. Then I got the pro shot when it came out. Nearly shocked me to death. Always clogged up even with strained material. That product is a joke. Great idea but no follow through on engineering or design on Graco's part.
> I have a multi finish as well. I prefer Titan over graco but even the multi finish is not good as a AAA unit. There is simply no comparison to pneumatic pumps and guns. They are refined and work great for there intended purpose. Titans and Gracos units are just posers on the block trying to be like the cool kids. They make great airless and ok hvlp and that's why there good at IMO.


Graco makes Merkur which are good air assisted pumps.

I don't think the majority in here are unhappy with the finishes from their graco 395 finishpro's. it's more about the build-up on the cap and the hassle to keep it clean.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=FlDE1w6mV-k


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

paintcore.ca said:


> Titans and Gracos units are just posers on the block trying to be like the cool kids.


Who are the cool kids?


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## paintcore.ca (Apr 5, 2010)

vermontpainter said:


> Who are the cool kids?


When it comes to AAA, it has to be ca tech, kremlin and binks. IMO they are the cool kids for AAA. I just have no faith in graco products and customer service.


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## paintcore.ca (Apr 5, 2010)

Graco and Titan are great for straight airless application don't get me wrong. I still use them for that purpose. But it seems that there just adding air and re marketing it to us architectural painters and commercial painters. For a real AAA rig the design has to start from the ground up.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

paintcore.ca said:


> When it comes to AAA, it has to be ca tech, kremlin and binks. IMO they are the cool kids for AAA. I just have no faith in graco products and customer service.


I use kremlin. Its not aaa. Not very much in common with it at all as a technology. Not apples to apples.


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## paintcore.ca (Apr 5, 2010)

vermontpainter said:


> I use kremlin. Its not aaa. Not very much in common with it at all as a technology. Not apples to apples.


So what is a kremlin then. I know they like to call it air mix not air assist. And I know the air moves through the gun a little different. But the difference between a bobcat gun and the excit gun is marketing really. Cat call tere rig aaa. Results are small in terms of finish quality and spray pattern. Have you ever used the bobcat?
Or a binks?


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

paintcore.ca said:


> So what is a kremlin then. I know they like to call it air mix not air assist. And I know the air moves through the gun a little different. But the difference between a bobcat gun and the excit gun is marketing really. Cat call tere rig aaa. Results are small in terms of finish quality and spray pattern. Have you ever used the bobcat?
> Or a binks?


you don't directly plug in a kremlin eos. all the power comes from air.

air assisted airless get's it's 'airless' power from electricity. the small compressor feathers out the edges.


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## paintcore.ca (Apr 5, 2010)

And I get what your saying that they are different ones electric and the other pneumatic but they market them all as fine finish rigs. Titan states that they are "the leader in fine finish technologies" so you kinda have to compare. When you spend 3 grand on a pump you feel ripped off cause they really are not the leader of fine finishing IMO.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I disagree. 

Kremlins, Ca tech, graco Merkur, Binks, and a couple others make true AAA. A true AAA is powered by air compressor only, and runs at lower pressures.

GracoFinish Pro, Titan Multifinish are not true AAA. 

Sure there are minor differences, but the design is similar.


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## paintcore.ca (Apr 5, 2010)

And yes you use air to power a kremlin. But if you turned the air off that feathers the edges on the kremlin then it would only be a airless no? Just a air powerd air less.


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

paintcore.ca said:


> And yes you use air to power a kremlin. But if you turned the air off that feathers the edges on the kremlin then it would only be a airless no? Just a air powerd air less.


look at this nice looking pump.

http://www.graco.com/content/dam/graco/ipd/images/application/15309.tif.imagep.png


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Xmark said:


> look at this nice looking pump.
> 
> http://www.graco.com/content/dam/graco/ipd/images/application/15309.tif.imagep.png


This a pretty sweet looking pump, and I'd be real curious to put that up against a Kremlin and see how they compare.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

paintcore.ca said:


> So what is a kremlin then. I know they like to call it air mix not air assist. And I know the air moves through the gun a little different. But the difference between a bobcat gun and the excit gun is marketing really. Cat call tere rig aaa. Results are small in terms of finish quality and spray pattern. Have you ever used the bobcat?
> Or a binks?


Kremlin is technically a pneumatic system. 

Dean, not sure which Kremlin's you are referring to but I am not aware of a "true" aaa from them. AAA by definition is air assisted airless. Show me which part of the Kremlin pump is airless.


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> This a pretty sweet looking pump, and I'd be real curious to put that up against a Kremlin and see how they compare.


i think that one comes with the G15 gun. most finishers say the kremlin excite gun is the best.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

paintcore.ca said:


> And yes you use air to power a kremlin. But if you turned the air off that feathers the edges on the kremlin then it would only be a airless no? Just a air powerd air less.


No, if you turn the air off, it stops working. There is nothing airless about it.


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## paintcore.ca (Apr 5, 2010)

Xmark said:


> look at this nice looking pump.
> 
> http://www.graco.com/content/dam/graco/ipd/images/application/15309.tif.imagep.png


That is a nice pump. A beast. Prob 45:1. I looked into the murker 30:1 I found it was over priced. Pluse I don't like the viscon heater.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> Kremlin is technically a pneumatic system.
> 
> Dean, not sure which Kremlin's you are referring to but I am not aware of a "true" aaa from them. AAA by definition is air assisted airless. Show me which part of the Kremlin pump is airless.


Kemlin's, cA techs, merkur all have been around before the FinishPro ever was and referred to as AAA pumps as well. I have been reading up on them and considering getting one once the shop needed one long before the FinishPro existed.

I have been debating AAA since I found out how air hungry my Binks pressure pot was.


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

paintcore.ca said:


> That is a nice pump. A beast. Prob 45:1. I looked into the murker 30:1 I found it was over priced. Pluse I don't like the viscon heater.



how much did you pay for you kremlin inline heater? around $1500?

i'm not sure if that heater would mount onto the portable cart. i think it's mainly for shop spraying.


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

DeanV said:


> Kemlin's, cA techs, merkur all have been around before the FinishPro ever was and referred to as AAA pumps as well. I have been reading up on them and considering getting one once the shop needed one long before the FinishPro existed.
> 
> I have been debating AAA since I found out how air hungry my Binks pressure pot was.



big shop compressors can get fairly pricey eh?


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Xmark said:


> big shop compressors can get fairly pricey eh?


Problem is I needed PORTABLE as well!


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Even though the pumps air driven, the fluid from the flat tip is not atomized by air u til you turn on the "air assisted" air cap.

A portion of atomization is done apart from directly acting with air and a portion is assisted by air.

AAA was coined in the 70’s with the kremlin/ca tech/ merkur style.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

DeanV said:


> Kemlin's, cA techs, merkur all have been around before the FinishPro ever was and referred to as AAA pumps as well. I have been reading up on them and considering getting one once the shop needed one long before the FinishPro existed.
> 
> I have been debating AAA since I found out how air hungry my Binks pressure pot was.


Its kind of semantics, but technically, not aaa. I think people get confused by their patented Airmix concept, which is really about the gun, not the pump. The pump is a piston pump, and there are two hoses running to the gun, but thats about where the similarities end.


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

DeanV said:


> Problem is I needed PORTABLE as well!


a small compressor like the makita mak5200 will work on the kremlin 30-1 pump. that pump is twice as powerful as the 15-1 that vp owns. it also requires less air than any on the market.

that said, the little compressor will run constantly just like the compressor on the graco 390 finishpro does. ideally you'd have a big azzed compressor in the shop with a big air tank. it will be much quieter and you can paint as fast as you'd like. the little compressor makes you slow down. most of my onsite work with the kremlin will be for the kitchen cabinet (boxes) carcass only. the doors are sprayed in the shop.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Parts from kremlin guns and CA tech are interchangeable even. Sure, there are minor differences in air cap design, but they are the same beast.

Are you saying that Kremline is completely different than Merkur, CA tech and is a third class of machine?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

DeanV said:


> Even though the pumps air driven, the fluid from the flat tip is not atomized by air u til you turn on the "air assisted" air cap.
> 
> A portion of atomization is done apart from directly acting with air and a portion is assisted by air.
> 
> AAA was coined in the 70’s with the kremlin/ca tech/ merkur style.


Dean, love you like a cellmate, but this is not correct. There is no "turning on the air assisted cap" on the xcite gun. Its on. You have fan width adjustment control at the gun, and thats it. There is not turning the air on or off at the pump or gun. I don't know about cat or merkur, but what you are describing is not accurate in reference to the kremlin system.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

DeanV said:


> Parts from kremlin guns and CA tech are interchangeable even. Sure, there are minor differences in air cap design, but they are the same beast.
> 
> Are you saying that Kremline is completely different than Merkur, CA tech and is a third class of machine?


No, I am saying that the current generation of kremlin pumps (the eos models and 10.14) with the xcite or mvx guns are not conventional aaa. 

I do not know about cat or merkur, I know guys who like them, but thats about it.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> No, I am saying that the current generation of kremlin pumps (the eos models and 10.14) with the xcite or mvx guns are not conventional aaa.
> 
> I do not know about cat or merkur, I know guys who like them, but thats about it.


Then you are changing universally used terminology by every finisher, book, and website I have ever read in the past decade.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> Dean, love you like a cellmate, but this is not correct. There is no "turning on the air assisted cap" on the xcite gun. Its on. You have fan width adjustment control at the gun, and thats it. There is not turning the air on or off at the pump or gun. I don't know about cat or merkur, but what you are describing is not accurate in reference to the kremlin system.


There can be a lever run at the pump to shut off air to the gun, I use it when flushing the AAA gun out. 

You have 2 dials, right? One for fluid pressure and one for air cap pressure.


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## paintcore.ca (Apr 5, 2010)

vermontpainter said:


> Kremlin is technically a pneumatic system.
> 
> Dean, not sure which Kremlin's you are referring to but I am not aware of a "true" aaa from them. AAA by definition is air assisted airless. Show me which part of the Kremlin pump is airless.


A kremlin Is definitely a pneumatic system. It does need air to run. But if you did not use the atomizing air at the air cap and only used the air to supply the fluid delivery what would happen? Would the coating still atomize? I think it would. If you put the fluid to over 1500 psi most fine finish coatings would atomize through the tip no problem just like an airless. The reason for the atomizing air is to feather out the tails created by the fluid being pushed through a small orifice. This orifice is the same as in airless tip. You can spray with a kremlin just like an airless. A ca tech an a kremlin spray the same. I have used them both extensively. One is marketed as a air mix the other a air assist. The air assist part means just that. It assists the spray pattern that was partially atomized at low pressure through a airless tip. Pneumatic powered pumps with airless guns do exist with no atomizing air.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Paul I didn't mention it last night, but the finishes are looking wonderful. I would love to see that room completed in person.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

DeanV said:


> Then you are changing universally used terminology by every finisher, book, and website I have ever read in the past decade.


I don't create these things. 

http://www.kremlinrexson-sames.com/en/usa/infos/250-pneumatic_spray_pump_airless_eos_30_c25.html


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## paintcore.ca (Apr 5, 2010)

Xmark said:


> how much did you pay for you kremlin inline heater? around $1500?
> 
> i'm not sure if that heater would mount onto the portable cart. i think it's mainly for shop spraying.


I got it for a grand. Was able to negotiate a deal with the pump. There is a cart mount version. You can bring it on site.


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

DeanV said:


> Then you are changing universally used terminology by every finisher, book, and website I have ever read in the past decade.


you are correct. an airless machine uses electricity to push the fluid and atomize the material. air assisted airless introduces air at the tip in order to feather out the edges of the fan.

an air assisted airless on a pneumatic pump uses air to push the fluid and additional air to feather out the fan near the cap. two separate functions for the air.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

The above link is a pneumatic airless. 

Below is the pneumatic airmix. 

http://www.kremlinrexson-sames.com/...tic_spray_pumps_eos_15_c25_30_c25_airmix.html


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## paintcore.ca (Apr 5, 2010)

DeanV said:


> Parts from kremlin guns and CA tech are interchangeable even. Sure, there are minor differences in air cap design, but they are the same beast.
> 
> Are you saying that Kremline is completely different than Merkur, CA tech and is a third class of machine?


I interchange tips between the ca tech and kremlin all the time. The ca tech IMO is not a third class machine IMO. I have used mine for 2 years straight without a hiccup. The air cap never gets clogged.


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## paintcore.ca (Apr 5, 2010)

vermontpainter said:


> Dean, love you like a cellmate, but this is not correct. There is no "turning on the air assisted cap" on the xcite gun. Its on. You have fan width adjustment control at the gun, and thats it. There is not turning the air on or off at the pump or gun. I don't know about cat or merkur, but what you are describing is not accurate in reference to the kremlin system.


If you don't want atomizing air just don't turn the knob it's that simple.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it probably is a duck even with fancy marketing trying to make it sound like a peregrine. 

Everything about a Kremlin says it belongs with other air compressor powered AAA pumps in classification. It may arguably be at the top of the heap, but still a member of the family.

Now, you could build an airless pneumatic, but then it better not have an air cap and it would perform like a regular airless but with a pneumatic design.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> Paul I didn't mention it last night, but the finishes are looking wonderful. I would love to see that room completed in person.


Thanks Tommy. I'm really not trying to toot my own horn, but the pictures dont do the room justice. I really like the finish I get from the finish pro, even if I'm having issues with build up on the gun. I pulled all the tape and paper today, and of course forgot to take some pictures. I'll get some tomorrow and post them up for sure.


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## paintcore.ca (Apr 5, 2010)

vermontpainter said:


> The above link is a pneumatic airless.
> 
> Below is the pneumatic airmix.
> 
> http://www.kremlinrexson-sames.com/en/usa/infos/227-pneumatic_spray_pumps_eos_15_c25_30_c25_airmix.html


Air mix is just there go to marketing name. They want to make it seem that there technologies is different then every one else's. at the end of the day I still prefer the kremlin over the rest but only by a few points and finish quality is not one of them. For me the kremlin has great build quality, nice regulators, a bigger pick up tube and great customer support.


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

DeanV said:


> If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it probably is a duck even with fancy marketing trying to make it sound like a peregrine.
> 
> Everything about a Kremlin says it belongs with other air compressor powered AAA pumps in classification. It may arguably be at the top of the heap, but still a member of the family.


the biggest difference with the pnumatic air assisted pumps like the kremlin is that the fluid pressure is much lower and steadier than the electric air assisted pumps like the finishpro. that means much less overspray and a finer finish. you can get right inside built-in's with much less blow-back.

also the kremlin apparently uses the air in a different way than the others. the finishpro g40 gun or g15 gun feathers out the fan much further from the cap than the kremlin excite gun.


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## paintcore.ca (Apr 5, 2010)

Xmark said:


> the biggest difference with the pnumatic air assisted pumps like the kremlin is that the fluid pressure is much lower and steadier than the electric air assisted pumps like the finishpro. that means much less overspray and a finer finish. you can get right inside built-in's with much less blow-back.
> 
> also the kremlin apparently uses the air in a different way than the others. the finishpro feathers out the fan much further from the cap than the kremlin excite gun.


I think the xcite body has a smoother air passage. Makes it easier for the air to travel through the gun body. Basically less turbulence.


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

paintcore.ca said:


> I think the xcite body has a smoother air passage. Makes it easier for the air to travel through the gun body. Basically less turbulence.


i don't know exactly how the excite gun uses the air. you could be right.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

paintcore.ca said:


> That is a nice pump. A beast. Prob 45:1. I looked into the murker 30:1 I found it was over priced. Pluse I don't like the viscon heater.


Hey guys, what do the ratios refer to? 
Thanks!


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## paintcore.ca (Apr 5, 2010)

Damon T said:


> Hey guys, what do the ratios refer to?
> Thanks!


So if you had a 10:1 this would mean for every pond of pressure going into the pump multiply that by 10 and you get your psi.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Everything's done and all put back together in the room now. It was a fun little project and it even came in on budget. One coat Bin, two coats of Benjamin Moore water base satin impervo in linen white.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Slick finish Paul.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Awesome, Paul, thanks for sharing


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Everything's done and all put back together in the room now. It was a fun little project and it even came in on budget. One coat Bin, two coats of Benjamin Moore water base satin impervo in linen white.


What a dam crime!!!!!!!!!

Great job but terrible decision by the HO!!


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## David's Painting (Nov 7, 2012)

Very nice. The color really opened up the space. Thank you for sharing this project with us


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## Builtmany (Dec 5, 2009)

Looks great in the end even though it was a crime to paint over that wood.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

Impressive, as always! :notworthy:


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Damn fine job Paul.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

You missed a spot. Lol. 


Damn fine job sir! Very very nice!


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