# Priming Poplar Trim



## RockChalkJayhawk (Oct 8, 2012)

I am priming and painting poplar baseboards and casing for an existing home prior to installation using a turbine hvlp spray gun. I have sprayed cabinets with Kilz Original oil before and was pleased with the results. But it seems like a lot of people here prefer Zinsser BIN shellac instead (and don't like Kilz). I don’t have any experience with shellac. But I have read that it has a “brittle” quality. Top coat will be BM Advance.
Questions:
1-Which primer would you recommend spraying on poplar trim – Kilz Original oil or Zinsser BIN or something else (not water-based)? 
2-If BIN, does this brittle/inflexible quality cause problems if spraying trim prior to installation?
3-I’ve read that BIN runs thin. If so, does it need additional thinning to spray?
4-Do you recommend 1 or 2 coats of primer? If two coats, do I need to sand between coats? I'm a perfectionist and will do if it will produce better results.


----------



## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

using a hvlp? i'm guessing that you are an amateur/handyman?


----------



## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

I vote for option #5, none of the above. Use a high quality enamel undercoater. Poplar? What an odd choice for baseboard and trim? Poplar is the softest hardwood usually used in crown molding for the details pieces, not as the main pieces. Lacquer undercoater would be ideal, as it would not raise the grain, as poplar is very "hairy", and would sand better than your above mentioned primers.


----------



## gabe (Apr 20, 2012)

Poplar is used a lot here. Kilz oil, cover stain, Ora enamel under coat works very well.


----------



## premierpainter (Apr 17, 2007)

All we use is Poplar. Any latex primer will work. We use Fresh Start. Don't use BIN. 
Also to Xmark~ why doe the use of an HVLP make him a handyman or rookie? We have one and works great for a smooth finish. We do use an airless, but an HVLP can be used.


----------



## Delta Painting (Apr 27, 2010)

Welcome to PT..

1.I would spray that trim package with an airless pump. 

2. Prime with oil.

3. Shoot finish with airless using a FF tip..


----------



## capepainter (Mar 9, 2012)

We paint alot of poplar and always use bin shelac, because poplar has a lot of knots on it if u don,t use bin they will bleed threw.


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

I just googled priming poplar but theres not much info out there on it. This thread came up 7th on the page and most of the first 6 was junk.


----------



## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

Poplar has knots? new to me. Pine has knots.
I like Primecoat2 on poplar. Was one of JackP's suggestions- and it works nice.


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

BrushJockey said:


> Poplar has knots? new to me. Pine has knots.
> I like Primecoat2 on poplar. Was one of JackP's suggestions- and it works nice.


I have seen maybe 3 knots in at least 100 miles of poplar the past few years. It does get some wild pukey green and purple grain sometimes, but its rare. I find it to be eminently paintable.


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I agree the few you see will be fixed with a rattle can in 15 minutes. I imagine you work with much better stock than the average painter Scott.


----------



## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

And knots that bleed? We are not talking about the same board.


----------



## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> I find it to be eminently paintable.


^ Have to agree with this. Poplar is real common in my neck of the woods on new construction, and not that big of a deal to prime. Have you used Moore's Superior Primer #046?


----------



## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

We see a lot of poplar. It mills very nice and sharp for detailed moldings. Not many knots, but like Scott mentioned some boards have a lot of green/dark purple discolorations. I do like some sort of stain/bleed blocker on poplar. I have primed it with Bin, Cover Stain, enamel under coaters and higher quality acrylic primer sealers with success. I know many feel Bin dries too hard/brittle, but I have *never* had any problem resulting from such. I like it for speed and it sands out smooth as a baby's bottom, easily 3 coated in a day. 

To you guys that spray these "trim packages" prior to installation...How do you address all the nail sets after it has been installed? I am picturing some beautifully sprayed moldings with a cabinet quality finish that need to now have the nail sets filled and hidden. Are you re-priming and spraying again after installation? Are you re-priming and now brushing? How do you hide all those filled nail sets on a freshly sprayed piece of crown or casing? What about caulking? Doesn't the trim basically have to be re-painted once installed. I can see pre-primed, but pre-finished I can't get my head around. It is something in 37 years I have never seen/done or experienced. I am sincerely interested in how you make this work?


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Cliff I don't do a lot of new construction, but I like having the trim sealed, and not soaking up tons of topcoat material once its installed. Spraying a few coats on the flat is the easiest way to get that done imo. 

Its really not that hard to shoot out a few coats in the shop. You don't have to sand to cabinet grade, treat it as you would on site. Nail holes and caulking are a breeze to hide, and the spray the final coat. The trim guys beating it up would be my main concern.


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> ^ Have to agree with this. Poplar is real common in my neck of the woods on new construction, and not that big of a deal to prime. Have you used Moore's Superior Primer #046?


Yes. I like it brushed, not sprayed. We used it a good bit on our recent big project but had to yank it out of spray situations.


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

CliffK said:


> We see a lot of poplar. It mills very nice and sharp for detailed moldings. Not many knots, but like Scott mentioned some boards have a lot of green/dark purple discolorations. I do like some sort of stain/bleed blocker on poplar. I have primed it with Bin, Cover Stain, enamel under coaters and higher quality acrylic primer sealers with success. I know many feel Bin dries too hard/brittle, but I have *never* had any problem resulting from such. I like it for speed and it sands out smooth as a baby's bottom, easily 3 coated in a day.
> 
> To you guys that spray these "trim packages" prior to installation...How do you address all the nail sets after it has been installed? I am picturing some beautifully sprayed moldings with a cabinet quality finish that need to now have the nail sets filled and hidden. Are you re-priming and spraying again after installation? Are you re-priming and now brushing? How do you hide all those filled nail sets on a freshly sprayed piece of crown or casing? What about caulking? Doesn't the trim basically have to be re-painted once installed. I can see pre-primed, but pre-finished I can't get my head around. It is something in 37 years I have never seen/done or experienced. I am sincerely interested in how you make this work?


Anything thats going to get face fasteners is left a coat shy. Anything that is going to get joint sanded is left 2 coats shy. Anything that we just know the carpenters are going to beat the bejesus out of gets left 3 coats shy.


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Cliff

Another aspect of it that I am nutty about is that our products have to spray and brush well. That is why 046 has fallen down on us. But the clears we use and the enamels, we can get the same result with, brushed or sprayed. We have been brushing alot longer than we have been spraying, so if we cant replicate sprayed work with a brush, then we have a problem. So, that solves the "what do you do if" issue when prefinishing. In a recent post I did somewhere else, we showed a kitchen/dining room combo just chucker ass block full of cabinets. Prefinished. Electrician grinds his belt buckly right into upper cabinet face frame, right in between the doors, while installing a light. 

Light sand and brush it in. Gone.


----------



## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

vermontpainter said:


> Anything thats going to get face fasteners is left a coat shy.


 In my experience it would take more than one coat to hide face fastened nail sets on a piece of "pre-finished" mill work to make me happy-maybe that's just me? Our methodology on new/raw woodwork/trim is to fill nail sets, prime & then 2 coats of finish-all after installation. If I was to prime a piece of poplar in the shop and then 1 or 2 coats prior to install in a satin or semi-gloss finish and then attempt to fill all the nail sets and apply only one additional coat of semi-gloss, I don't think I would be that happy with the results. Especially on larger stock that is being installed with larger fasteners. Maybe I've been doing it wrong all these years...?? I can understand the "pre-finishing procedure if we are talking about strictly production work, but I would have a concern on custom stuff. We don't do much "new construction" for builders. We do a considerable amount of residential custom remodel and renovation for homeowners.
Don't get me wrong Scott. I am not so much questioning your methodology as I just find it very interesting how different quality shops approach the same tasks so differently. Always enjoy these discussions.....


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Me too Cliff. And every year I become more fascinated with how to inject production into fine finish. We pick and choose like crazy, and we have alot of site meetings with carpenters to discuss fastening and installation procedures. 

Alot of it still is in our hands. I remember 6 or 7 years ago when we were still running alot of oil impervo. There was exactly one filler we could use that wouldnt flash deep base impervo, even in 2-3 coats. Now, that filler is about useless in waterborne. Around and around it goes. 

Your inclination is correct that, yes, to prefinish and do one coat post install, alot of stars have to align. We dont do entire packages, we do it selectively. But since the op is doing it with baseboard, I chimed in, because base and shoe are mandatory candidates in my book because they have an extremely high success rate, and because they are no where near eye level or natural light/angular sheen risks, we prefinish them alot. There are other trim elements such as crown/panel details/cabinetry that fall into that same category for me.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

STIX. Look no further. Order it if you have to. Stock it. Live by it.


----------



## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


> STIX. Look no further. Order it if you have to. Stock it. Live by it.


For what applications JP? I've seen it but never used it.


----------



## leftcoastpainter (Sep 13, 2011)

I've used various primers over the years on NC poplar depending on the situation. 

Cover stain for build
BIN for a quick kick and easier sand
BM Fresh Start for low voc 
Mac Lac undercoater for speed and build 

I think I like Cover Stain the best since you can tack and stack it and get a higher film build. 




CliffK said:


> To you guys that spray these "trim packages" prior to installation...How do you address all the nail sets after it has been installed? I am picturing some beautifully sprayed moldings with a cabinet quality finish that need to now have the nail sets filled and hidden. Are you re-priming and spraying again after installation? Are you re-priming and now brushing? How do you hide all those filled nail sets on a freshly sprayed piece of crown or casing? What about caulking? Doesn't the trim basically have to be re-painted once installed. I can see pre-primed, but pre-finished I can't get my head around. It is something in 37 years I have never seen/done or experienced. I am sincerely interested in how you make this work?


I'm with VermontPainter on this one. It's definitely not a rule, but sometimes it's just faster to prefinish the first coat if it's NC and a zoo. Depends on the situation. The high build waterborne's actually don't flash with Elmer's Wood Patch (granted they aren't a 5 base).

my .02


----------



## leftcoastpainter (Sep 13, 2011)

jack pauhl said:


> STIX. Look no further. Order it if you have to. Stock it. Live by it.


STIX is a great adhesive primer, but imo doesn't build well.


----------



## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

Agreed that Stix is a great adhesion primer. If I was going to prime poplar it would be with Benjamin Moore Superior Primer 046 or Sherwin Williams Wall and Wood. If I was on a budget Zinsser PrimeCoat 2 would be a great choice.


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

CliffK said:


> In my experience it would take more than one coat to hide face fastened nail sets on a piece of "pre-finished" mill work to make me happy-maybe that's just me?....


Hey Cliff

Sorry I haven't had a chance to directly address this question in any detail that would do it justice. Today, as I was driving between our 3 projects (2 of which my work was featured, er, allowed, on), I was thinking of this. 

Basically, in the past, up until about '07, we were oil based trim painting freaks and prefinished nothing. We allowed the carpenters we worked with to install raw poplar, and we would prep and bury it all under oil primer and 2 coats of si. We had no choice, because with oil trim paint, because it is the nature of it to want to penetrate anything that has any kind of porosity, if you tried to one (or even 2) coat over nail hole filler, you would get "low flash". In other words, the rate of absorption at the hole is much greater than that of the surrounding (and sealed) surface. With oils, once low flash sets in, you are on a wild goose chase. 

When we switched to wb trim packages, this issue goes away, and your options become much greater. I am talking entirely wb, right down to the filler itself. There is little flash risk, the paints arent built to penetrate, the brushes are built to lay it down at the desired thickness, etc. 

I think alot of guys get caught in wanting to keep steps or products from the past, but it is moving more and more to a poop or get off the pot deal to either stay all oil based prep to finish, or move to all wb prep to finish. Never the twain shall meet. That is the world I have chosen. 

That said, one still has to measure the likelihood of collateral damage when selecting prefinish (minus 1) options. Those things are out of our control, so the best we can do is measure probably possibilities in that decision. However, the products we choose are entirely predictable and within our control, and that goes for all of us.


----------

