# ML Cambell products



## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Who out there is using any of the ML Cambell waterborne products for Cabinet finishing? It is actually something I can get locally, but am uncertain as to whether or not it is ideal for repaints .
I am also still waiting for my local rep to get me some Envirolak to try..


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Who out there is using any of the ML Cambell waterborne products for Cabinet finishing? It is actually something I can get locally, but am uncertain as to whether or not it is ideal for repaints .
> I am also still waiting for my local rep to get me some Envirolak to try..


I tested the Arroyo 1k through my airless. I had a bunch of little bumps/grit in the finish even with straining etc, so I haven't used it for any projects. It's definitely pretty thin, might be better through your hvlp. I think @Respec uses it.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

fromthenorthwest said:


> I tested the Arroyo 1k through my airless. I had a bunch of little bumps/grit in the finish even with straining etc, so I haven't used it for any projects. It's definitely pretty thin, might be better through your hvlp. I think @Respec uses it.


Weird! I feel like once you switch to a particular system with a sprayer, you need to dedicate that sprayer to it. Some of these products are super sensitive.


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Weird! I feel like once you switch to a particular system with a sprayer, you need to dedicate that sprayer to it. Some of these products are super sensitive.


I think you may be right, I've had that with a couple other products. I start to think it's my system and then I try one of my normal products and it lays out just fine!


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## propainterJ (Jan 31, 2011)

These waterborne finishes are supposed to stick to anything,my paint rep keeps pushing Envirolak on me,but I read on it and youve got to reduce it 12% just to get a 90 minute pot life and it hates cool weather

I have a cabinet job coming up where they replaced the door and drawer fronts with wood and the cabinet frames look like that prefinished Maple you sometimes see the interiors of Cabinets are made of.

Theres no way thats real wood or if it is it's a thin piece of laminate,it feels like plastic.

My rep says rough it up and spray that Envirolak on it,but at $70 a gallon with a 90 minute pot life,doesnt sound real appealing to me,not in December anyway,where I'm going to have to run my space heater in my shop to dry these Doors/Drawers

Also the underneaths of the Uppers are Melamine,so I KNOW Im going to have to use Coverstain on that.Im thinking Im going with Coverstain and a good Acrylic on the whole thing

Sorry if I derailed this thread


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

propainterJ said:


> These waterborne finishes are supposed to stick to anything,my paint rep keeps pushing Envirolak on me,but I read on it and youve got to reduce it 12% just to get a 90 minute pot life and it hates cool weather
> 
> I have a cabinet job coming up where they replaced the door and drawer fronts with wood and the cabinet frames look like that prefinished Maple you sometimes see the interiors of Cabinets are made of.
> 
> ...


 Envirolak has a 1k product that is crosslink optional. Aka, Unlimited pot life.


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

propainterJ said:


> These waterborne finishes are supposed to stick to anything,my paint rep keeps pushing Envirolak on me,but I read on it and youve got to reduce it 12% just to get a 90 minute pot life and it hates cool weather
> 
> I have a cabinet job coming up where they replaced the door and drawer fronts with wood and the cabinet frames look like that prefinished Maple you sometimes see the interiors of Cabinets are made of.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you've got a system in place that already works, so probably no point in tinkering, especially on an actual job. I've been buying some Envirolak and Renner products for testing though, and I will say they're pretty impressive compared to the stuff I can get at my local stores. Haven't used them on a full job yet though.


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## Respec (Sep 13, 2015)

fromthenorthwest said:


> I tested the Arroyo 1k through my airless. I had a bunch of little bumps/grit in the finish even with straining etc, so I haven't used it for any projects. It's definitely pretty thin, might be better through your hvlp. I think @Respec uses it.


Yes, I have been using the Arroyo for a little under the past year. The Aqualente Plus is discontinued, so I started using the Arroyo. I really liked the Agualente, but I am not sold on the Arroyo. It has been a fussier finish for me and is a bit harder to get a perfect finish from. The end result is nice when you finally get it. I agree with northwest. It is a gritty finish that needs to be strained well. I have been shooting it through an ED655 and have to use the ultra-fine filters to get a smooth finish. I also strain it with a 150-micron strainer into the hopper to remove as much as possible before I spray. Here are a couple pics of a batch I received. It looks like the base had dried on the lid and was dispersed throughout the gallon when it was tinted. 















This was the only batch I received that was this bad. The other batches I sprayed looked fine, but you could feel the grit. That is why I use the ultra fine filters and that does the trick. My supplier carries Milesi and I have considered trying it since you have to work to make the Arroyo look good. They just don't have any literature on the Milesi and that is why I have refrained. I have also considered Renner and Envirolak because I have heard good things. The Envirolak distributor never called me back and Renner is halfway across the country.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Respec said:


> Yes, I have been using the Arroyo for a little under the past year. The Aqualente Plus is discontinued, so I started using the Arroyo. I really liked the Agualente, but I am not sold on the Arroyo. It has been a fussier finish for me and is a bit harder to get a perfect finish from. The end result is nice when you finally get it. I agree with northwest. It is a gritty finish that needs to be strained well. I have been shooting it through an ED655 and have to use the ultra-fine filters to get a smooth finish. I also strain it with a 150-micron strainer into the hopper to remove as much as possible before I spray. Here are a couple pics of a batch I received. It looks like the base had dried on the lid and was dispersed throughout the gallon when it was tinted.
> View attachment 114900
> View attachment 114901
> 
> This was the only batch I received that was this bad. The other batches I sprayed looked fine, but you could feel the grit. That is why I use the ultra fine filters and that does the trick. My supplier carries Milesi and I have considered trying it since you have to work to make the Arroyo look good. They just don't have any literature on the Milesi and that is why I have refrained. I have also considered Renner and Envirolak because I have heard good things. The Envirolak distributor never called me back and Renner is halfway across the country.


Thanks for the insight Respec. I hear you on the bad customer service. Took at least a year of emails to get some Envirolak over my way. Finally my distributor is going to carry it, but have been waiting another 6 months for "someone" to provide training to my distributor on application methods.. It's like c'mon guys. Which is mostly why I still use Advance and Command ATM. My local MLC dealer are a bunch of knobs also.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I have used some arroyo. In dark blue, it cures well BUT you need to apply it so thin (I used an airless with a 208FFLP) to avoid runs. A medium dark gray was not as bad. The blue was awful to work with. Both cabinets turned out nice though.


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## Sn0man (Sep 15, 2017)

DeanV said:


> I have used some arroyo. In dark blue, it cures well BUT you need to apply it so thin (I used an airless with a 208FFLP) to avoid runs. A medium dark gray was not as bad. The blue was awful to work with. Both cabinets turned out nice though.


Those products aren't really made to be applied with airless equipment. Most shops use pressure pot HVLP and air spray. Even air assisted airless is pushing it with most of them.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I have gotten away from air stuff over the years. For onsite work, it is a pain to haul the compressor around that can support the spray equipment. At the shop, I could give it a try again, but I have found that the FFLP tips took away most of my reasons to use AAA gear. The Arroyo clear sprays fine with airless, but once that tint gets added to dark colors, it just does not seem to be able to support the weight of the added tint. I did a dozen new chairs with an offwhite color in arroyo and they turned out really nice with airless. Chairs were a lot more complicated to spray with spindles, arm rests, etc than a basic cabinet. I think the challenges with Arroyo are went it gets to dark colors that are tinted in the clear. Pastel base is fine. I could break out the pressure pots and HVLP/LVLP stuff again. It has been awhile.


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