# PEELING Sherwin Williams Multi Surface Acrylic



## Pissed Painter (Aug 7, 2017)

This stuff was recommended by the Sherwin Williams rep after I walked in asking for oil based.

It was sprayed over textured powder coated metal and oil based paint on door and trim.

It lifted and peeled everywhere there had been a leak while bldg was abandoned. I washed and rinsed the walls before painting.

The paint is soft, it scratches and scuffs easy, it is total garbage it doesn't even shine good.

I can't feather edges, it's like sanding a condom. It's textured so each panel needs stripped. I've tried 3 paint strippers, laquer thinner , cleaners, wire brush, heat gun, water, and everything just makes a mess and it turns to goo but won't come off.

I have had the rep out here he agreed I sprayed it perfect, prepping was right, it just didn't stick.

So HOW DO I GET THIS STUFF OFF?

THE PAINT IS GARBAGE. IT scratches easy, and scuffs and fingerprints won't go away.

I have an estimate for $3800 to media blast the room - do I just do it and try and sue Sherwin Williams for the damages or ???????

I'll be calling them soon not sure what to do


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Did you use a bonding primer? Was the surface scuffed and/or sanded? Good luck suing SW. They have deep pockets. At the end of the day, if they're feeling particularly generous, they may replace the product.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

Damn... What did you clean the wall with? Tell us more about this leak. How long has it been since you painted it? Was it humid when you sprayed it? I know this doesnt help you move forward, but it may help us understand... What caused the initial peeling. Did you just come in the room and see it falling off the wall, or did someone start scratching at it?

Honestly though, I can't believe they didnt sell you a primer for it, and you really should have known better than to apply anything to powder coated metal without a primer. How much area are you talking about that needs to get stripped?


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

In 27+ years, I've seen exactly two cases of paint product failure. Most was due to poor prep and poor application.

Why anyone would take the word of a paint rep is beyond me, unless he/she had a large number of years of painting experience before becoming a rep.

Painting over anything that is powder coated is hit and miss. I usually tell people to go with at least 120 grit and then a 220 grit depending on the finish they want. While the new fad is acrylics, they do have their drawbacks; they may be dry to the touch, but softer than heck underneath. Car painters have been dealing with it for years. Their solution was a dry tack coat, then progressive coats for coverage and finish and mil thickness.

Looking at the pics, it looks like a textured surface on the walls, almost like an FRP panel looks. If any of the deep texture areas are not prepped correctly, that's where your failure begins.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

peelaway will take that stuff right off. SW sells it, maybe they will give you some. There definitely should have been a lot more surface prep done. And a GOOD adhesion primer should have been used. (which SW doesn't have btw.) Painting powder coated substrates is pretty much a crap shoot. You're basically trying to paint a plastic or an epoxy that was never intended to be re-coated.


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## getrex (Feb 13, 2017)

Were you at least skeptical about painting over it without a primer? This is a decision making issue. If you're not sure about what will work then you need to ask someone with painting experience before you paint. Paint reps are experienced at selling paint. That doesn't necessarily translate to real world application.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

I've used a lot of MSA and can vouch that it's a great paint. But, the best paint in the world would fail going over something it shouldn't be. 

I'm with PAC, peel away, prime it, then use MSA or switch if you'd like because you had a bad experience and stuff. 

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## Pissed Painter (Aug 7, 2017)

Wolfgang said:


> Did you use a bonding primer? Was the surface scuffed and/or sanded? Good luck suing SW. They have deep pockets. At the end of the day, if they're feeling particularly generous, they may replace the product.


No I am an automotive refinisher.. I went in blind and asked the rep for advice and trusted him. My brother is the contractor he was with me and had never sprayed over powder coat so we both trusted the rep.

I would have done everything he told me. My last question to him was "should I know anything before I do this that I obviously don't?" And now I have a mess to clean up.

So I guess I should have sanded it maybe but how to get into the divets in the textured metal? 

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## Pissed Painter (Aug 7, 2017)

Woodco said:


> Damn... What did you clean the wall with? Tell us more about this leak. How long has it been since you painted it? Was it humid when you sprayed it? I know this doesnt help you move forward, but it may help us understand... What caused the initial peeling. Did you just come in the room and see it falling off the wall, or did someone start scratching at it?
> 
> Honestly though, I can't believe they didnt sell you a primer for it, and you really should have known better than to apply anything to powder coated metal without a primer. How much area are you talking about that needs to get stripped?


I cleaned walls with "Awesome" which has no ammonia or bad stuff just a citrus based cleaner. It was humid but in Charleston SC there is no such thing as a dry day.

It's been week now

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## Pissed Painter (Aug 7, 2017)

Wolfgang said:


> In 27+ years, I've seen exactly two cases of paint product failure. Most was due to poor prep and poor application.
> 
> Why anyone would take the word of a paint rep is beyond me, unless he/she had a large number of years of painting experience before becoming a rep.
> 
> ...


I am a car painter, I am opening a calot and the pics are of my building. 

I straight up asked the rep about prep and he said "maybe" a primer - I did an adhesion test and it seemed ok but...

I don't see how I can sand in the low spots of the textured metal anyway, and if I am going have to sand the whole building on the outside to paint it I might as well just use automotive paint with an activator and stay away from house paint.

Who the hell would put water based latex on a metal building? It is NOT what I asked for when I walked in.

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## Pissed Painter (Aug 7, 2017)

getrex said:


> Were you at least skeptical about painting over it without a primer? This is a decision making issue. If you're not sure about what will work then you need to ask someone with painting experience before you paint. Paint reps are experienced at selling paint. That doesn't necessarily translate to real world application.


I was skeptical, that's why I went to Sherwin's "main" paint store in the area to find the right product and get advice.

I asked several painters but no one had dealt with powder coated metal they all said ask a paint rep lol

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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Actually water based is the way to go for most metal buildings, unless there is a need for a rust inhibitive finish. Usually the primer would take care of that though. And you don't ever want to use an oil based product on galvanized metal and you shouldn't actually use it on aluminum. Was this paint tinted at the store or is that a factory made black? That could cause it to not cure properly, if the store tinted it that is. Too much colorant can cause it to take quite a long time to cure and adhere properly. Or at least delay the maximum adhesion for an extended period. I am kind of surprised that they would recommend this product in this situation regardless. Was the rep aware of what the substrate was?


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## Pissed Painter (Aug 7, 2017)

Woodco said:


> Damn... What did you clean the wall with? Tell us more about this leak. How long has it been since you painted it? Was it humid when you sprayed it? I know this doesnt help you move forward, but it may help us understand... What caused the initial peeling. Did you just come in the room and see it falling off the wall, or did someone start scratching at it?
> 
> Honestly though, I can't believe they didnt sell you a primer for it, and you really should have known better than to apply anything to powder coated metal without a primer. How much area are you talking about that needs to get stripped?


I have 300+ SQ feet that needs stripped. I would like to strip all of it the paint is garbage I saw an old bid for an elementary school near me to paint outside doors, I went to check it out and it was peeling and chipping and kids were writing their names in it with probably just there fingernails.

The paint is junk and can't anybody tell me any different.

I want it off the walls, NO latex

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## Pissed Painter (Aug 7, 2017)

Wolfgang said:


> In 27+ years, I've seen exactly two cases of paint product failure. Most was due to poor prep and poor application.
> 
> Why anyone would take the word of a paint rep is beyond me, unless he/she had a large number of years of painting experience before becoming a rep.
> 
> ...


I don't see how I can sand in the recesses if the texture, probably impossible.

I know this stuff wasn't meant to be recoated, but the rep didn't even insist I use a primer and now I have to clean up a mess. He didn't even tell me what I was buying I assumed it was oil based enamel, I would have vetoed any latex water crap I have never seen latex do good on metal or over oil based

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## Pissed Painter (Aug 7, 2017)

Woodco said:


> Damn... What did you clean the wall with? Tell us more about this leak. How long has it been since you painted it? Was it humid when you sprayed it? I know this doesnt help you move forward, but it may help us understand... What caused the initial peeling. Did you just come in the room and see it falling off the wall, or did someone start scratching at it?
> 
> Honestly though, I can't believe they didnt sell you a primer for it, and you really should have known better than to apply anything to powder coated metal without a primer. How much area are you talking about that needs to get stripped?


The building at vacant for 3 years and the air handler on the roof were stolen. It leaked down the wall with the most peeling and the was water intrusion everywhere it peeled..

That being said I went there for paint for the outside I told him it was chalky, I tried it on the inside that didn't seem to have the same problem

I wiped it all down with Awesome cleaner that has no ammonia or alcohol etc and even rinsed walls down with water.

If I was told a primer was needed I would have done that believe me money was not the issue

After coming out he is now recommending a tinted primer and oil based paint

I am pissed and have a mess

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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Pissed Painter said:


> I have 300+ SQ feet that needs stripped. I would like to strip all of it the paint is garbage I saw an old bid for an elementary school near me to paint outside doors, I went to check it out and it was peeling and chipping and kids were writing their names in it with probably just there fingernails.
> 
> The paint is junk and can't anybody tell me any different.
> 
> ...


Well, nobody may be able to tell you anything different than what you now believe, but many here, including myself, would say they have used this paint countless times with outstanding results so... it may _not_ be the paint, just sayin'.


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

Pissed Painter said:


> I am a car painter, I am opening a calot and the pics are of my building.
> 
> I straight up asked the rep about prep and he said "maybe" a primer - I did an adhesion test and it seemed ok but...
> 
> ...


Maybe you should have hired a house painter! Would you let a residential painter, paint your car? I hope not.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Brushman4 said:


> Maybe you should have hired a house painter! Would you let a residential painter, paint your car? I hope not.


I totally agree with what Brushman said.

You are a car painter, not a structural painter. I wouldn't even begin to think I would know what to do for proper prep and product for painting a vehicle. I'm sure you have pretty rigid guidelines requiring prep in order to assure a quality job that isn't going to fail on you. Well, it isn't any different with us.

Multi-Surface means just that - it can be used on multiple surfaces including metal (I have used it dozens of times on exterior metal doors). But, as with any product, it is not idiot proof (a generic term - not calling _you_ an idiot) and proper prep and precautions need to be followed; cleaning away contaminants with the proper cleaner. Removing the cleaning residue if necessary. Scuff sanding if needed and possible. Proper priming is always good insurance if you want to guard against what you are experiencing. 

As Wolf said, product "failure" is almost unheard of. IMO, guys who blame the breakdown of their job on the product are simply unwilling to admit that they screwed up in the prep or application process somewhere. And for what it's worth, I too have had issues occur when doing a job. And in every case, I was able to go back and track down the breakdown in my procedure that caused it to happen and then realize it was totally my own fault. So quit blaming the product and accept you made a mistake somewhere (regardless of what the rep is telling you). Remove the peeling paint and redo it properly. Or better yet, hire a pro to do it for you.


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## 804 Paint (Jan 31, 2014)

No way I would have ever have gone full throttle into that job without doing a test area with an unfamiliar product on an unfamiliar substrate. Good grief. 


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Pissed Painter said:


> I cleaned walls with "Awesome" which has no ammonia or bad stuff just a citrus based cleaner. It was humid but in Charleston SC there is no such thing as a dry day.
> 
> It's been week now
> 
> Sent from my Z981 using Tapatalk


Hate to see this type of thing happen to someone much less a fellow Charleston guy. Who's your SW rep? 

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## SWPB (Oct 6, 2016)

S-W settles these type of complaints all the time as "goodwill." Provided that the amount is under $5k, you shouldn't have too much blowback. Simply tell the rep that you want reimbursement of the $***X due to their faulty recommendation or ask for the District Managers name, email address, & phone number. You will be best served to email any correspondence to keep a paper trail. 

Keep in mind that you are not to profit twice on the project. Any labor hours to redo the project should be at cost (i.e. employee receives $15 per hour and took 4 hours). All that being said, at a minimum, you needed a bonding primer and even then, it's somewhat iffy. Test panel with bonding primer, then perform a cross hatch test.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Hate to see this type of thing happen to someone much less a fellow Charleston guy. Who's your SW rep?
> 
> Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk



Heck, I didn't realize he was also from Charleston. That explains everything. :devil3:





:wink:


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

Pissed Painter said:


> The building at vacant for 3 years and the air handler on the roof were stolen. It leaked down the wall with the most peeling and the was water intrusion everywhere it peeled..
> 
> That being said I went there for paint for the outside I told him it was chalky, I tried it on the inside that didn't seem to have the same problem


Im still not following. Are you saying you painted the wall, and then the roof leaked down the wall after you got done?


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Pissed Painter said:


> No I am an automotive refinisher.. I went in blind and asked the rep for advice and trusted him. My brother is the contractor he was with me and had never sprayed over powder coat so we both trusted the rep.
> 
> I would have done everything he told me. My last question to him was "should I know anything before I do this that I obviously don't?" And now I have a mess to clean up.
> 
> ...


I started out in Autobody repair and refinishing. Taught it for a couple years. After retiring from the house/commercial field, I'm doing street rod builds as a hobby- paint and all.

As a car painter, you should know the importance of prep and using bonding primers and sealers. As you should going over anything that has been powder coated. You took a short cut either because you didn't know any better, or were in over your head. Lesson learned. 

Quite a bit of difference between the two fields and their respective products and spray tools.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

Speaking of which, how did you apply it?


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

I have not read this whole thread, but I can tell you that rep stunk this up by recommending something without looking at the job and doing an adhesion test. Also with a color like that, most products will be soft for a long time!! Its totally on the company that applied the material and has the contract, but I think SW is on the hook for taking care of that mess.


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## PNW Painter (Sep 5, 2013)

For this type of job you hire a commercial painter, not a house painter. 

In my market SW also has commercial reps. They're much more knowledgeable when it comes to applications such as this. Unfortunately, the average rep that services retail stores knowledge about commercial products is very limited. 

I'm guessing that the peel away wouldn't remove any of the powder coating. Depending on your client, the expectation and the future use, it may make sense to bite the bullet and have it media blasted. Maybe you eat the cost of the labor to apply MSA, but ask the client to pay for the media blasting. Hopefully you can get SW to provide primer and paint for free. Or go to PPG.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

Hold that reps feet to the fire. I'm with Mike, that rep shoulda looked at it prior to recommending a coating for it.if that service was in any way offered and if you for any reason rejected it, THEN the responsibility for the mess is yours. I'm not saying that happened, I'm just sayin that I've heard a lot of stuff over the years and the possibility exists. I would definitely be barking up some trees though. Follow what SWBP said. Yes, it's a pita but give em a shot at making it right. 
And, fyi, there are lots of great waterborne products that will hold up well on that. 
I'm somewhat confused about the water issue but from the way it sounds, you'd have had problems with an oil too if that's what you'd have used.



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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

lilpaintchic said:


> Hold that reps feet to the fire. I'm with Mike, that rep shoulda looked at it prior to recommending a coating for it.if that service was in any way offered and if you for any reason rejected it, THEN the responsibility for the mess is yours. I'm not saying that happened, I'm just sayin that I've heard a lot of stuff over the years and the possibility exists. I would definitely be barking up some trees though. Follow what SWBP said. Yes, it's a pita but give em a shot at making it right.
> And, fyi, there are lots of great waterborne products that will hold up well on that.
> I'm somewhat confused about the water issue but from the way it sounds, you'd have had problems with an oil too if that's what you'd have used.
> 
> ...


I was thinking the same thing. It would probably come off too, but only not as "rubbery" as the water bourne.


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## Pissed Painter (Aug 7, 2017)

So I got a gallon of oil based paint AND Peelaway from Sherwin at no charge of course.

Should I just strip everything I hit with the MSA?

Or can I paint over the latex crap?

I have talk to a few painters and a PPG rep and they said anything that says Multi Surface in the name is crap



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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Pissed Painter said:


> So I got a gallon of oil based paint AND Peelaway from Sherwin at no charge of course.
> 
> Should I just strip everything I hit with the MSA?
> 
> ...


Well then, it must be. 

Therefore, I will consider ammending my previous posts where I have shared about using the product countless times with absolutely no failures (in fact, it has performed flawlessly and still looks great years after the applications) and will also now consider it "crap".


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Pissed Painter said:


> So I got a gallon of oil based paint AND Peelaway from Sherwin at no charge of course.
> 
> Should I just strip everything I hit with the MSA?
> 
> ...


You won't want to put the oil based over the latex. It should come off pretty easily with the peelaway. And i am not a big fan of "multi-surface" at all. They tend to not be really good at anything and mediocre on everything at best.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

PACman said:


> You won't want to put the oil based over the latex. It should come off pretty easily with the peelaway. And i am not a big fan of "multi-surface" at all. They tend to not be really good at anything and mediocre on everything at best.


LOL... says the guy who "loves" anything SW. 

All I know is that I have had outstanding results with SW's Pro-Industrial Multi-Surface Acrylic for quite a long time now. It has been my go to exterior door product and I still prefer it over anything else I have tried. But then, what do I know? I only actually use the stuff on a regular basis and then follow up to see how it's performing.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

PACman said:


> You won't want to put the oil based over the latex. It should come off pretty easily with the peelaway. And i am not a big fan of "multi-surface" at all. They tend to not be really good at anything and mediocre on everything at best.


It's almost identical to Breakthrough. In fact I'm almost positive they reverse engineered it. 

Only difference I can see is that I don't get those weird fish eye like thingys with MSA.

I agree with you on Multi Purpose primers being mediocre at everything, that doesn't apply with this product. 

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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Only thing I don't care for about it is that it is really only designed to be sprayed. Much too thin and apt to run if applied with a roller or brush. Plus it dries too fast to achieve decent leveling.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I'm surprised the SW rep didn't suggest the Shercryl system for that powder coated surface. The Shercryl TDS recommends a bonding primer over glossy Kynar finishes used on exterior metal siding. Which to my understanding is a similar coating to powder coating.

Actually, the bonding coat is what is designed to adhere to Kynar. (See link) the Shercryl is a suggested coating system finish but you could probably use Pro cryl. 

https://www.paintdocs.com/docs/webPDF.jsp?SITEID=SWPROTECT&doctype=PDS&lang=E&prodno=B71W211


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

RH said:


> LOL... says the guy who "loves" anything SW.
> 
> All I know is that I have had outstanding results with SW's Pro-Industrial Multi-Surface Acrylic for quite a long time now. It has been my go to exterior door product and I still prefer it over anything else I have tried. But then, what do I know? I only actually use the stuff on a regular basis and then follow up to see how it's performing.


I didn't say anything about SW. But honestly, how hard is it to get a paint to work on an exterior door? If you were to take that MP paint and paint ceramic tile it sure wouldn't be the best paint for it. And in all honesty i doubt that even though it works fine on an exterior door there are more than likely many paints that are better for exterior doors.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

PACman said:


> I didn't say anything about SW. But honestly, how hard is it to get a paint to work on an exterior door? If you were to take that MP paint and paint ceramic tile it sure wouldn't be the best paint for it. And in all honesty i doubt that even though it works fine on an exterior door there are more than likely many paints that are better for exterior doors.


It's called multi surface not multi purpose. It only serves one purpose and that's to be hard and durable. It's meant to go over many types of surfaces. Again, it's pretty much breakthrough in a SW can. Breakthrough is also a multi surface paint with the same purpose. 

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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Rbriggs82 said:


> It's called multi surface not multi purpose. It only serves one purpose and that's to be hard and durable. It's meant to go over many types of surfaces. Again, it's pretty much breakthrough in a SW can. Breakthrough is also a multi surface paint with the same purpose.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk


Well it didn't work for this surface did it? :vs_laugh:


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

PACman said:


> I didn't say anything about SW. But honestly, how hard is it to get a paint to work on an exterior door? If you were to take that MP paint and paint ceramic tile it sure wouldn't be the best paint for it. And in all honesty i doubt that even though it works fine on an exterior door there are more than likely many paints that are better for exterior doors.


Well, since the entire thread has been about the SW Multi-Surface... not much of a leap to connect the dots is it?

As for SW's product and how I use it, I'm not saying there aren't other products that would do the job on a door, perhaps some that would even be better, only that after using the product in question on a crap load of exterior doors, I have never had anything but outstanding results and performance from it. But just like any product, you need to know what it will work for, how to prep for it, and how to best apply it, and you should be able to get similar results. It is not a "crappy" product as the OP asserts.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

PACman said:


> Well it didn't work for this surface did it? :vs_laugh:


Well, guess that's why it isn't called, "Pro-Industrial Any and Every Surface Acrylic". And, as I said in an earlier post, it isn't idiot proof.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

And just to be clear, I am not any big SW fan boy or anything. Pretty much like any company, they make some good products that I like and some I am not so fond of. But it does rankle me when someone who isn't even a structural painter has a bad experience with a product and then comes in here loudly proclaiming that the product in question is "crap". Perhaps the prep or the application was lacking. Or, maybe they got some bad advice from the dealer. Regardless, that doesn't mean the product itself is lousy, especially when I have first hand experience to prove to me otherwise.

It would be like me taking our new Toyota Highlander and then calling it a "crappy" car because the salesperson said I could drive it through a four foot surf at the beach and not have any issues - and then I did. Or, I ran a stop sign with it, got hit, and then said it was a crappy car because it's now totaled. The car may be an outstanding vehicle but it won't overcome poor judgement, bad advice, or improper use.


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## PNW Painter (Sep 5, 2013)

To the op, whoever primer you use test a small area to ensure it adhere's. If you can scratch off with your fingernail after 24hrs then you need to find a different primer.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

Pissed Painter said:


> So I got a gallon of oil based paint AND Peelaway from Sherwin at no charge of course.
> 
> Should I just strip everything I hit with the MSA?
> 
> ...


Call the rep that gave you the msa. Ask them to come look at it. Call ppg and get a rep from them also. I'm betting g ppg woulda sent you out the door with breakthrough which will bond to just about anything. 
Couple of questions:
Help me understand the water intrusion part. Was that happening before you painted? Was it resolved prior to painting? Or did it occur after you were finished?



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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

RH said:


> LOL... says the guy who "loves" anything SW.
> 
> All I know is that I have had outstanding results with SW's Pro-Industrial Multi-Surface Acrylic for quite a long time now. It has been my go to exterior door product and I still prefer it over anything else I have tried. But then, what do I know? I only actually use the stuff on a regular basis and then follow up to see how it's performing.


I'm not a SW fanatic, but I did paint my own kitchen cabinets with MSA last November and to this day they still look great. My only complaint is they could be more satin like than eggshell, but I did know that going in!


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Brushman4 said:


> I'm not a SW fanatic, but I did paint my own kitchen cabinets with MSA last November and to this day they still look great. My only complaint is they could be more satin like than eggshell, but I did know that going in!


I agree about the satin looking like an eggshell thing. Seems like lots of SW's product are a bit wonky where sheen is concerned.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

The product isn't really the issue here, it's the so-so customer service that SW provided. So the OP is rightfully pissed at SW regardless of what they sold him. That is my biggest issue with SW. They have a great tendency to over sell their products AND their quality. And they have a great tendency to not have knowledge of their own products that actually would work much better in this situation. Is it a combination of errors? Yes it is. Is SW predominately at fault? Yes they are. At least they have provided replacement materials and stripper to the OP to finish the job. But fixing an issue by giving product only goes so far to placate a pissed off customer, especially when they have been misled either by ignorance or a mistake by a company that markets themselves as the "experts" in the paint business.

The part that gets me is they (SW) have a very un-nerving tendency to rid themselves of employees that have the knowledge and experience to properly represent their company as paint "experts" as soon as they get to a certain wage level. Then they are replaced by recent graduates with MBA degrees that don't know squat about paint in general and the SW product line in particular. CApainter recommended a product that is used quite often in my area to paint this kind of substrate. Why didn't the SW rep know about it and recommend it? I have no idea. But if I know about it and CApainter knows about it, why didn't the rep know about it? That's a pretty typical scenario with SW and you can't really argue that point. I know exactly why it happens, and i know exactly how to put an end to it, and that is where my SW frustration comes from. That and knowing first hand that they have and never have had any intention to fix the problem. Paying highly skilled and trained, knowledgeable staff costs them a lot more than the occasional gallon of paint and a gallon of stripper does.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

PACman said:


> The product isn't really the issue here, it's the so-so customer service that SW provided. So the OP is rightfully pissed at SW regardless of what they sold him. That is my biggest issue with SW. They have a great tendency to over sell their products AND their quality. And they have a great tendency to not have knowledge of their own products that actually would work much better in this situation. Is it a combination of errors? Yes it is. Is SW predominately at fault? Yes they are. At least they have provided replacement materials and stripper to the OP to finish the job. But fixing an issue by giving product only goes so far to placate a pissed off customer, especially when they have been misled either by ignorance or a mistake by a company that markets themselves as the "experts" in the paint business.
> 
> The part that gets me is they (SW) have a very un-nerving tendency to rid themselves of employees that have the knowledge and experience to properly represent their company as paint "experts" as soon as they get to a certain wage level. Then they are replaced by recent graduates with MBA degrees that don't know squat about paint in general and the SW product line in particular. CApainter recommended a product that is used quite often in my area to paint this kind of substrate. Why didn't the SW rep know about it and recommend it? I have no idea. But if I know about it and CApainter knows about it, why didn't the rep know about it? That's a pretty typical scenario with SW and you can't really argue that point. I know exactly why it happens, and i know exactly how to put an end to it, and that is where my SW frustration comes from. That and knowing first hand that they have and never have had any intention to fix the problem. Paying highly skilled and trained, knowledgeable staff costs them a lot more than the occasional gallon of paint and a gallon of stripper does.


PAC, I totally agree that the issue here is likely more about poor information being dispensed than about the quality of the product itself. Sort of the point I have been trying to make all along.


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## getrex (Feb 13, 2017)

At least they have a token woman at all of their stores now. That is the important thing. No offense lil.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

getrex said:


> At least they have a token woman at all of their stores now. That is the important thing. No offense lil.


Oh no you di'ant! LPC's got her sites on you like a Carabou.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

getrex said:


> At least they have a token woman at all of their stores now. That is the important thing. No offense lil.


Or dude! Come on, fair is fair!

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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Ban him. Ban him now!. It'll help keep your sites off of me.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Perfect example just happened. I had a customer that needs Sw7005 pure white for his client. When his client found out i had to tint it, she called me up to complain! "the sherman (sic) williams guy told me that sw7005 pure white was the brightest white anyone made!"

Not even close! Not EVEN close!

I told her "it may be the brightest white SHERWIN Williams makes, but if you'd like i can show you 10-15 products i sell that are brighter." Then once again, I'm the idiot or the bad guy!


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

Isnt SW 'pure white' an actual color? Their Ultra White is supposed to be their whitest, even though they sold me two different colored versions of it, and denied any wrong on their part.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Woodco said:


> Isnt SW 'pure white' an actual color? Their Ultra White is supposed to be their whitest, even though they sold me two different colored versions of it, and denied any wrong on their part.


obviously there is some confusion at the local SW! But isn't pure white what one of their tint bases is? The gray ones?


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

PACman said:


> obviously there is some confusion at the local SW! But isn't pure white what one of their tint bases is? The gray ones?


They really need to rename that color to something less confusing.....

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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

CApainter said:


> Ban him. Ban him now!. It'll help keep your sites off of me.


Lol....

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## getrex (Feb 13, 2017)

CApainter said:


> Oh no you di'ant! LPC's got her sites on you like a Carabou.




I've seen caribou in person. Their eyesight sucks.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

PACman said:


> obviously there is some confusion at the local SW! But isn't pure white what one of their tint bases is? The gray ones?


Well, "ultra-white" is their 'white' base, yet they have a tinted color called 'pure white.' I believe they do this so they can tell people they ordered the wrong white when they want just straight up 'WHITE.'

If I order paint, and I say 'pure white,' or 'straight white' Im referring to untinted STOCK WHITE; as in, the whitest white they got. Or, are you telling me, that they can tint a whiter white, than 'ultra white?'

I believe they do this to cover their asses when their "WHITE" paint is off colored.

Seriously, WHY THE HOLY HELL DO THEY HAVE A COLOR CALLED 'PURE WHITE,' THAT THEY HAVE TO TINT????? I want to murder whoever came up with that crap....


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## getrex (Feb 13, 2017)

There are 100s of shades of white between the major brands. Just pick the one you like.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

dblpost.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

getrex said:


> There are 100s of shades of white between the major brands. Just pick the one you like.


We are talking about STOCK WHITE. NOT a tinted color.


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## getrex (Feb 13, 2017)

And they are all different. Just like how daylight bulbs are very different from soft white. They still sell soft white because a lot of people prefer it. The same goes for paint. Pick the white you like and buy it.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

I always cringe when a customer says, "Oh, we just want it painted white." lain:


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## Delta Painting (Apr 27, 2010)

What happened to the OP and his latex bashing? lol


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

He's busy stripping paint off his walls, lol.


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