# Scuffx versus Behr ultra scuff - pros & cons of each



## dmhomes (Feb 13, 2020)

Hi, folks. I'm pretty new to the paint industry... gotta start somewhere, right? Anyway, what can you tell me about the Scuffx compared to Behr ultra scuff? Is there even any comparison? Everything I'm reading about Scuffx says it is the best out there. I want to hear real-life stories though so here I am. Thanks.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

dmhomes said:


> Hi, folks. I'm pretty new to the paint industry... gotta start somewhere, right? Anyway, what can you tell me about the Scuffx compared to Behr ultra scuff? Is there even any comparison? Everything I'm reading about Scuffx says it is the best out there. I want to hear real-life stories though so here I am. Thanks.



Not much love for behr products here but no one has anything like scuffx, its a resin technology their chemist came up with and patented. Just like we havn't seen any gennex competitors for 10+ years now unlikely to see a competing product like scuffx anytime soon. For comparison scuffx is out competing precat wall epoxy for scuff and mar resistence.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

I just saw the Behr Ultra Scuff for the first time the other day. Based on my experience with all other Behr products I would never use it unless a customer insisted. I know that reviewing a product without trying it seems wrong, but why waste my time when I have such negative experiences with all of its other products. I have used Scuff-X several times now and like it a lot. Seems like it will withstand some serious abuse. I have only used in eggshell. It has more sheen to it than Regal Select...more like a Satin

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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

I had the unfortunate pleasure of using Behr just yesterday on a hallway. (Customer supplied). Hadn't used it in like 10 years. Horrible experience.. So gummy. Could not get it looking good..


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## jr.sr. painting (Dec 6, 2013)

finishesbykevyn said:


> I had the unfortunate pleasure of using Behr just yesterday on a hallway. (Customer supplied). Hadn't used it in like 10 years. Horrible experience.. So gummy. Could not get it looking good..




I know all the behr nay sayers here but just finished a job with behr ultra matte. That stuff covers better than any paint on the market and finishes just as well. I’d put it against anything that’s out there. As far as too thick or gummy... not in my experience. Coverage and sq ft per gallon are second to none. I know this will be met with vitriol. Price point is the best, coverage is the best, and so is finish. I would add a pic but I’m not paying for it. Better coverage and hide than any top market overpriced products. The only down side is the hd employees: behr all day


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

jr.sr. painting said:


> I know all the behr nay sayers here but just finished a job with behr ultra matte. That stuff covers better than any paint on the market and finishes just as well. I’d put it against anything that’s out there. As far as too thick or gummy... not in my experience. Coverage and sq ft per gallon are second to none. I know this will be met with vitriol. Price point is the best, coverage is the best, and so is finish. I would add a pic but I’m not paying for it. Better coverage and hide than any top market overpriced products. The only down side is the hd employees: behr all day
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



All paints will cover when you put them on at the 'recommended' 6 mils. That's why behr paint has rheology modifiers designed to drag so it forces HO's to put it on thicker than normal


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## celicaxx (May 29, 2015)

Pete Martin the Painter said:


> I just saw the Behr Ultra Scuff for the first time the other day. Based on my experience with all other Behr products I would never use it unless a customer insisted. I know that reviewing a product without trying it seems wrong, but why waste my time when I have such negative experiences with all of its other products. I have used Scuff-X several times now and like it a lot. Seems like it will withstand some serious abuse. I have only used in eggshell. It has more sheen to it than Regal Select...more like a Satin
> 
> Sent from my SM-A600U using Tapatalk


Strangely Behr's newer WB Alkyd was actually scarily good. Now it seems the WB Alkyd is a urethane WB Alkyd, likely aiming for SW's Emerald Urethane Alkyd as a knockoff, the way the paint I tried aimed at Advance. 

I'm guessing "Ultra Scuff Defense" is trying to knock off Scuff X. Who knows how good or bad of a knockoff it is, though. 

Note, I've disliked every Behr product I ever used BUT the WB Alkyd.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

celicaxx said:


> Strangely Behr's newer WB Alkyd was actually scarily good. Now it seems the WB Alkyd is a urethane WB Alkyd, likely aiming for SW's Emerald Urethane Alkyd as a knockoff, the way the paint I tried aimed at Advance.
> 
> I'm guessing "Ultra Scuff Defense" is trying to knock off Scuff X. Who knows how good or bad of a knockoff it is, though.
> 
> Note, I've disliked every Behr product I ever used BUT the WB Alkyd.


I thought that too until I did my friends cabinets with it a few months ago. 8 days later, I wrapped them up and took them to their house, and the wrapping bit into the doors, and I had to redo them.

It was a medium grey/green color though... FWIW. Im never using behr alkyd again though. The other time I used it in a white, it did great though.


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

Scuff X is from BM, Ultra Scuff is from Behr, enough said.


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## NACE (May 16, 2008)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> All paints will cover when you put them on at the 'recommended' 6 mils. That's why behr paint has rheology modifiers designed to drag so it forces HO's to put it on thicker than normal


This is a good point. It’s a less expensive rheology too. That’s why the handling characteristics are so poor. High sheer and low sheer viscosity makes a difference too.


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## bluegrassdan (May 8, 2015)

Scuff x seems to drag like crazy and dry faster than Aura. First time using it and the application is the pits.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

bluegrassdan said:


> Scuff x seems to drag like crazy and dry faster than Aura. First time using it and the application is the pits.


What base? I have the exact opposite experience with scuffx. Definitely slower drying than Aura.


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## bluegrassdan (May 8, 2015)

It is an off white in pearl.


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## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

As to the general question, there's no real comparison between Behr and Benjamin Moore. Benjamin Moore is an age-old, long standing industry leader in paint tech. Whatever Behr might have been once (because I don't really know), it's now just a little piece of the corporate behemoth Home Depot. Benjamin Moore has always, and still does specialize in coatings. Home Depot specializes in ROI for shareholders. They don't know sh** about paint. If they're marketing a "scuff" anything it's just going to be a poor imitation of Benjamin Moore to sucker in homeowners.



As to any experience with dragging / open time I've not had problems with ScuffX. I love the stuff. It's very modestly priced, goes on easily by brush and roller (haven't sprayed any), lays down well, looks great, and works as advertised in terms of scuff resistance and clean-ability. I'd wonder, not about the base, but about the surface it's going over. The first time I used ScuffX it went on over Gardz and flowed like water (but while covering well). More often than not it's going over Freshstart and still flows great, but not as well as over Gardz. 



The contractor I do work for often installs pre-primed trim. IDK what they use for primer but it sucks. It doesn't matter what I use, the first coat is always like trying to paint a dry sponge. I have the same experience anytime I have to go over "contractor-grade" flat paints (i.e. cheap shizzle) in big condo or similar development units. Painting a dry sponge.


So if anyone's had any problems with ScuffX dragging, I just doubt it's the ScuffX.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Nothing to report yet.*



dmhomes said:


> Hi, folks. I'm pretty new to the paint industry... gotta start somewhere, right? Anyway, what can you tell me about the Scuffx compared to Behr ultra scuff? Is there even any comparison? Everything I'm reading about Scuffx says it is the best out there. I want to hear real-life stories though so here I am. Thanks.


dmhomes, it appears that Behr's Ultra Scuff might be too new for anyone here to actually give an opinion based upon using it and Scuff-X. I haven't read one comment where someone actually used Behr and was able to compare it with their personal experience in using Scuff-X. I guess we will have to wait for someone to give a hands on account.

futtyos


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## Mr Smith (Mar 11, 2016)

bluegrassdan said:


> Scuff x seems to drag like crazy and dry faster than Aura. First time using it and the application is the pits.


I agree with that. I love to spray Scuff-X but don't like to brush it. I always use extender in it. I prefer to brush the Regal Select which is much nicer to use. I also use extender in the Regal. Natura also brushes (and levels) surprisingly well. I use extender in all of BM's paints.

If the customer wants a spray like finish by brush I use Advance, but only if it is an off-white or pigmented. Advance yellows. The downside is it drags the worst of all their paints,while taking much longer to apply. I'm not sure if you can add extender to Advance. It can run on ya if you're not careful.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

I've only used it on one job so far and it was in the matte finish. We went over builder flat and it brushed and rolled like a dream straight out of the can. 

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## jr.sr. painting (Dec 6, 2013)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> All paints will cover when you put them on at the 'recommended' 6 mils. That's why behr paint has rheology modifiers designed to drag so it forces HO's to put it on thicker than normal




I treat it no different, don’t put it on thicker, get on my knees and pray to the behr gods. I open the gallon pour my tray and cut it bucket and go to town. Same coverage per gallon as any other paint that I use. It’s a good product and if it was sold at independent behr outlets painters would flock to it. Covers better than aura at less than half the price. It has great sheen levels (that are true to what a matte, eggshell, satin, semi, should be). If it was put on at 6 mils it would run all over the place. My standard cover is pro doo z 1/2” nap. It’s perfect every time. Not thick like pudding that some here claim and has excellent touch up years after it was originally applied.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

I brushed and rolled scuff-x on some cabinets, and it looked like I sprayed it with oil. IDK what you guys are talking about with 'dragging.' You are putting a capful of extender in your cut pots right? If not, thats your problem.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Scuff-X or Behr Ultra Scuff?*



Rbriggs82 said:


> I've only used it on one job so far and it was in the matte finish. We went over builder flat and it brushed and rolled like a dream straight out of the can.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk


Rbriggs82, which paint are you referring to, Scuff-X or Behr Ultra Scuff?

futtyos


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Scuff x

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## jmichna (Mar 26, 2020)

I used Behr Marqee on a interior because that's what HO wanted. I couldn't believe how easily the off white covered over any color with one coat. It covered over a dark orange and a green and I couldn't even see a flash where I cut in. I didn't want to use it at first but it saved me so much time. Also painted an exterior with Behr Ultra about 10 years ago and it looks like its still new.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

jmichna said:


> I used Behr Marqee on a interior because that's what HO wanted. I couldn't believe how easily the off white covered over any color with one coat. It covered over a dark orange and a green and I couldn't even see a flash where I cut in. I didn't want to use it at first but it saved me so much time. Also painted an exterior with Behr Ultra about 10 years ago and it looks like its still new.



Its a one hit wonder. #HailCorporate


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## aerial (May 14, 2020)

Gotta chime in. I too painted my neighbor's farmhouse bright yellow with Behr about 10 years ago. Looks like the day I put it on.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Behr Scuff Defense*

Since this thread popped up I figured I would give my experience using Behr Scuff Defense. I finished the last paint job I did on 3/21/20, then the Wuhan virus hit.

One wall of the condo I painted was an accent wall in SW Pewter Tankard. Both th living room side as well as the bedroom side of this wall was done in Petwer Tankard. The living room side originally was a dark gree. The owner had "somewhat" primed it with Kilz 2. The bedroom side was a light green that I washed down due to bug residue (I have a thread on this). The texture was sandy and had been painted several times.

Since we were being pressed for time (the management was going to shut the building down due to the Wuhan virus) I decided to cut and roll only one coat to see if it would cover and hide. It pretty much did. There were a few spot where I could see the primer or paint showing through, but those areas were easily covered with a mini roller. Only some of you here or the pickiest of customers might be able to tell it was only one coated. It seemed to roll out fairly nicely. The owner was very pleased with the job.

I do not as yet know how this paint will hold up or behave as to scuffing. I imagine that since the wall I painted is textured, any scuffing will not be as pronounced as would be on a smooth wall. I will have to try it on another job to see how it behaves on a smooth wall.

futtyos


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

futtyos said:


> Since this thread popped up I figured I would give my experience using Behr Scuff Defense. I finished the last paint job I did on 3/21/20, then the Wuhan virus hit.
> 
> One wall of the condo I painted was an accent wall in SW Pewter Tankard. Both th living room side as well as the bedroom side of this wall was done in Petwer Tankard. The living room side originally was a dark gree. The owner had "somewhat" primed it with Kilz 2. The bedroom side was a light green that I washed down due to bug residue (I have a thread on this). The texture was sandy and had been painted several times.
> 
> ...


How did it behave while applying? My biggest gripes with Behr paints are the smell, and the "snottiness" of it while rolling. Its like sticky or something, and prone to runs. Once its dry, Its fine, on a wall anyway... I used it on trim once, and it would scrape off with a fingernail on preprimed new trim three weeks later.


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## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

Woodco said:


> How did it behave while applying? My biggest gripes with Behr paints are the smell, and the "snottiness" of it while rolling. Its like sticky or something, and prone to runs. Once its dry, Its fine, on a wall anyway... I used it on trim once, and it would scrape off with a fingernail on preprimed new trim three weeks later.



The last time I used it it was b/c the HO already had it from a DIY thing and wanted it used up. In those instances, I don't get to choose or talk anyone out of it. I'd say _""snottiness" of it while rolling. Its like sticky or something, and prone to runs" _describes my experience with it. I was thinking it must have something to do with the whole "one coat coverage" promises. The snotty and sticky is leaves it thick and more likely to cover in one coat?


I never did go back and check adhesion, but thankfully didn't have to use it on the trim in any case.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

Joe67 said:


> The last time I used it it was b/c the HO already had it from a DIY thing and wanted it used up. In those instances, I don't get to choose or talk anyone out of it. I'd say _""snottiness" of it while rolling. Its like sticky or something, and prone to runs" _describes my experience with it. I was thinking it must have something to do with the whole "one coat coverage" promises. The snotty and sticky is leaves it thick and more likely to cover in one coat?
> 
> 
> I never did go back and check adhesion, but thankfully didn't have to use it on the trim in any case.


Duration and aura cover good in one coat too, but dont behave like Behr, so I'd say its just a cheap formulation. Also, lower tier Behr acts the same way.

Did you use the scuff-defense? I was asking Futtyos if it has the same qualities as other behr paint, (not that I would ever use it)


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## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

Woodco said:


> [Edit...]
> Did you use the scuff-defense? I was asking Futtyos if it has the same qualities as other behr paint, (not that I would ever use it)



It wasn't the scuff defense. And it's the only time I've used Behr, other than that a long time ago I bought a tin of their Tung oil finish for a home thing and hated it. I think it's still in the garage somewhere.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Scuff Defense properties*



Woodco said:


> How did it behave while applying? My biggest gripes with Behr paints are the smell, and the "snottiness" of it while rolling. Its like sticky or something, and prone to runs. Once its dry, Its fine, on a wall anyway... I used it on trim once, and it would scrape off with a fingernail on preprimed new trim three weeks later.


I used a Wooster 5/16" x 9" Micro Plush nap to roll the Scuff Defense on. It rolled on very nicely with no noticeable odor (at least to me) and nothing negative - unless I am misunderstanind what you mean by "snottiness." Since the color change was pronounced and I was only going to roll one coat (because of time constraints - the condo building was just going on lockdown for covid), I rolled a very thorough coat, then went back over it with my partner shining a light and me touching up with a mini roller.

I would definitely use this paint again. I have painted almost 20 condos in Marina Towers, all but this one for my friend who is a GC who remodels units there. Virtually all of his clients want flat paint on their walls. I have recommended to my GC that the next unit he does, he should use Scuff Defense if the owners let him pick the brand of paint to use. It sure couldn't be any worse than all the other flat paints we have used the last 5 years. 

I can say that the worst flat paint I have ever used at these condos is Ultra Spec by far! We only used this one time and I had to reroll a few walls several times as the paint seemed to attract scuffs and dings like a very powerful magnet.

futtyos


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*parallel paint universe*



Joe67 said:


> The last time I used it it was b/c the HO already had it from a DIY thing and wanted it used up. In those instances, I don't get to choose or talk anyone out of it. I'd say _""snottiness" of it while rolling. Its like sticky or something, and prone to runs" _describes my experience with it. I was thinking it must have something to do with the whole "one coat coverage" promises. The snotty and sticky is leaves it thick and more likely to cover in one coat?
> 
> 
> I never did go back and check adhesion, but thankfully didn't have to use it on the trim in any case.


I am constantly amazed by the negative comments on Behr paint that I read here. I am not saying that all Behr products are good, but the ones I use on a regular basis seem to work just fine for me.

On the last job I did where I used Scuff defense, I used Behr Premium Plus Ultra semi-gloss on the doors and trim. I used a 2" Besst Liebco foam roller for the trim and to cut in the doors where a 9" roller would other wise make a mess (I painted the doors on the hinges. Usually I am able to paint them off the higes and against the windows at Marina Tower jobs.). For the large areas of the doors I used a 9" Wooster 5/16" Micro Plush. The paint went on like butter and the results were probably the best I have done so far in these condo buildings.

I have not always had as good success with rolling out Behr PPU semi, but for whatever the reason (time of year, humidity, etc.) the paint really went on good and I was able to get a full coat on, then go back to tip it off smooth before it started to set up and pull into a sticky stippled mess.

I think that sometimes certain paints work well or better with certain roller covers or brushes than others. A couple of jobs ago that I did for my GC friend we used Benjamin Moore throughout. I used my go to mini roller for the RS semi-gloss and it started bubbling like crazy and I started freaking out. Since my GC has rolled out the baseboards with no trouble, I asked him what mini roller he had used. He showed me a 4" x 3/8" ArrowWorthy Microfiber cover. I got a 6" version of this and the rolling went very smoothly with no problems. I would not used this roller with Behr PPU semi-gloss, but it worked like a champion for the BM RS.

If this is the case - finding certain roller covers and brushes that work well with certain paints and not others - I could see how someone using their favorite roller covers and brushes to apply paint A might not find them as useful in applying paint B and, instead of searching for a better cover or brush for paint B, they just conclude that paint B is junk.

Now I am not saying that I only use Behr. I have tried a bunch of different ceiling paints on the Marina Towers ceilings. When I started with this contractor, he was using Behr Premium Plus white base flat and he and his clients seemed happy with that. I got him to try Behr PP ceiling paint and we used that on a couple of units. Then this paint seemed to have a sheen, so I rolled a coat of the plain white flat. This now too had a sheen, so I got SW CHB ceiling paint and this was pretty much dead flat. We have used BM Ultra Spec (not bad), BM 508 (great finished look, but spreads like what I imagine snot would spread like!), and Pittsburgh Premium Ceiling Paint (as recommended here by Chrisn and others). This was the best ceiling paint I have ever used, hands down. It spreads out like a dream and basically gives the same dead flat finish that the 508 does - minus the struggle to roll it on. Pittsburgh no longer makes this ceiling paint, but the replacement is pretty good, just a tad darker.

I used to ask my GC to use Behr if the customers gave him the chance, but last couple of years I welcome using any paint the customer chooses. This way I get to try a variety of paints that I might not otherwise end up using. If I have problems with any particular paint I come here for advice. I did this the first time I used Aura and found the advice here helpful. 

Right now I am doing little odd jobs as people in Illinois do not yet appear to want painting projects done. WIth all the flooding we have recently had, I have been getting some clean-up work. I am also on Nextdoor.com . I encourage anyone here to join this group and keep track of what is going on there. This is a website where people in a local area come to and ask for help, off help, or make comments on this or that. I have gotten 3 jobs in the last couple of weeks. 

On one job, the people were having flooding in their basement. I loaned them a wet/dry vac and a snail carpet fan to dry their basement carpet. When I picked the equipment up a week later I got a check for 100.00. Not a lot, but when you haven't worked since March 21, this can come in handy. 

I am on another job where I actually knew the guy who called me. I have brought fans over to help dry his basement, brought his Rigid wet vac into the basement (he walks with a cane) and set it up, bought a wet filter for his vac and installed it, blew the leaves out of his gutters yesterday. Today I am going to get missing hardware for one of his bifold doors as well as glue a strip of wood to one of his kitchen cabinets. He had sever mold problems due to a broken and leaked water heater. so there are other things that need to be done at his house. He plans on selling and moving to a condo to be nearer his kids. I figure that I am going to be doing some painting and other work before he puts his house on the market.

The first job I got a call for involved wet vaccing water in a basement. I brought over a wet vac for her to use and told her to run a fan. I also pointed her to a basement leak company in Chicago that is probably going to do work at her house. She wants exterior painting done, so when things warm up and dry out I will be giving her a bid for such.

Anyway, too much rambling.

futtyos


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

futtyos said:


> ... This now too had a sheen, so I got SW CHB ceiling paint and this was pretty much dead flat. We have used BM Ultra Spec (not bad), BM 508 (great finished look, but spreads like what I imagine snot would spread like!), and Pittsburgh Premium Ceiling Paint (as recommended here by Chrisn and others). This was the best ceiling paint I have ever used, hands down. It spreads out like a dream and basically gives the same dead flat finish that the 508 does - minus the struggle to roll it on. Pittsburgh no longer makes this ceiling paint, but the replacement is pretty good, just a tad darker...
> 
> futtyos


Ultraspec preforms adequetly for ceilings but I don't like it for walls as you mentioned.


Ben flat has quite a bit of sheen and not great for walls either, better coverage than ultraspec flat though.


508 is 100% acrylic basically regal but dead flat in _any _color. Its expensive and not the best for rolling. Muresco is still available and what I recommend for a dead flat white ceiling paint. Its a bit cheaper being a vinyl acrylic and sprays and rolls easy. Its my favorite ceiling paint. Bm also makes a couple good dead flat paints under the Coronado label too.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Favorite paints*



cocomonkeynuts said:


> Ultraspec preforms adequetly for ceilings but I don't like it for walls as you mentioned.
> 
> 
> Ben flat has quite a bit of sheen and not great for walls either, better coverage than ultraspec flat though.
> ...


I did like the Ultra Spec for the ceiling. I have not yet tried Muresco. I have used BM Super Spec on a ceiling and I liked rolling that a lot as well as how it turned out. I would use that again for sure. When I get a chance I will try the Muresco.

futtyos


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## SWPB (Oct 6, 2016)

There's a reason everyone knocks off BM products. It's rare to find a knockoff that outperforms the original. After all, they're trying to make products "close to" the original and give it a slightly better price. That's a profit center right there and how some companies have evolved into goliaths.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Scuff Defense on recent job*

My partner and I recently painted a bunch of walls for an old client of his. We were going to use Behr Premium Plus Untra in matte finish, but the store was out of the pure white tint base, so we went with Scuff Defense. Both of us liked how it brushed and rolled. At the end of the job I asked my partner if he had noticed if the paint had any odor as I could not smell any myself. He replied that he could not smell any odor either.

I haven't gotten any feedback on the "scuff resistance" of this paint, so I cannot comment about that, but it does seem to be friendly to work with. I have yet to use Scuffx so I cannot make any comparisons between the two paints.

futtyos


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## monarchski (Jun 21, 2019)

futtyos said:


> Since this thread popped up I figured I would give my experience using Behr Scuff Defense. I finished the last paint job I did on 3/21/20, then the Wuhan virus hit.
> 
> One wall of the condo I painted was an accent wall in SW Pewter Tankard. Both th living room side as well as the bedroom side of this wall was done in Petwer Tankard. The living room side originally was a dark gree. The owner had "somewhat" primed it with Kilz 2. The bedroom side was a light green that I washed down due to bug residue (I have a thread on this). The texture was sandy and had been painted several times.
> 
> ...


You do realize that ScuffX as well as the Scuff Defense both require 2 coats to be scuff resistant? They both need the mil thickness of 2 coats to work as advertised.


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## Charles G (Aug 6, 2021)

I’ve used both of these paints, along with duration. We did a test as far as durability and coverage goes.

-None of them covered in 1 coat
-All of them covered in 2 coats (so this part is irrelevant.. “1 coat coverage” is always a gimmick)
-Scuff-X and duration both had the best scuff resistance; Scuff defense by Behr lagged behind
-In terms of beauty, Duration was by far the best looking, deepest and richest color, and best at self leveling 
-Overall I’d recommend BM Scuff-X or Duration depending on if you want fade resistance and beauty, with good washability (Duration) or purely want max washability while sacrificing beauty (Scuff-x)


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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

only good thing i can say on behr is it covers decently, every other metric im not impressed


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## juanvaldez (Sep 7, 2019)

$27 behr to 57 BM. 
Depends on the job. 
Comparisons aren’t the same but for $30/per gal savings at a Superpaint SW or Ultra BM price it’s at least as good with a touch of scuff resistance to boot! Flat looks more matte than flat too!


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## celicaxx (May 29, 2015)

juanvaldez said:


> $27 behr to 57 BM.
> Depends on the job.
> Comparisons aren’t the same but for $30/per gal savings at a Superpaint SW or Ultra BM price it’s at least as good with a touch of scuff resistance to boot! Flat looks more matte than flat too!
> 
> ...


How would you rate handling characteristics compared to Regal Select?


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## jr.sr. painting (Dec 6, 2013)

celicaxx said:


> How would you rate handling characteristics compared to Regal Select?


My opinion is scuff x brushes/rolls faster, covers just as good, but the matte sheen is too shiny. With that being said we still use a majority of scuff x interior walls and trim. Stuff is really good. As far as the Behr scuff defense... no different than marquee or ppu but different label. There is no doubting the coverage of Behr. The doubt comes in with everything else at hd getting paint. Long lines, can’t phone in an order, utter incompetence. I’ll gladly pay 20$ more a gallon for scuff x. Not to mention supporting a local business. After all almost every painting business owner on this forum is a locally owned business, and your customers support you...


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## juanvaldez (Sep 7, 2019)

I can’t compare to Regal as I don’t use. 
Brushes and rolls decently. Can get a little sticky in the bucket after a while of cutting. Add a splash of water helps. 

Re: HD ordering. I fretted as well however one day I went in for some sundries that my local didn’t have and I ran into a Behr rep. We talked. He ended up moving my pro paint Acct to gold tier, 20%off, gave me his info, and said text me if you need paint. So now, I text him with my paint orders, and he takes care of the rest. I show up and my paint is ready at the paint counter and I p u and go. 
Honestly, I use Behr rarely, but it sure helps with the 20% off and text ordering when I do!


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## PSHERB (Sep 2, 2021)

jr.sr. painting said:


> I know all the behr nay sayers here but just finished a job with behr ultra matte. That stuff covers better than any paint on the market and finishes just as well. I’d put it against anything that’s out there. As far as too thick or gummy... not in my experience. Coverage and sq ft per gallon are second to none. I know this will be met with vitriol. Price point is the best, coverage is the best, and so is finish. I would add a pic but I’m not paying for it. Better coverage and hide than any top market overpriced products. The only down side is the hd employees: behr all day
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have to agree with you about the quality of Behr paints. We've painted 6 home exteriors in Palm Springs this year, 5 with Behr and 1 with customer supplied Sherwin Williams. The Behr continues to exceed our expectations, even in our extreme weather conditions. This thread, however, seems to have started with a question about ScuffX vs Scuff Defense. We've painted three home interiors this year with three different brands to accommodate client preferences. Our fourth interior client allowed us to choose the paint brand as long as we used a scuff resistant formula. There are only two stores within a 50 mile radius of us that carry Benjamin Moore ScuffX and they both want $69.95 per gallon. At that price the paint should apply itself. So we tried Behr Scuff Defense. Home Depot is half a mile away and the paint was only $35.95 per gallon. Keep in mind our humidity here is under10%, usually 1%-5%, so paint dries rapidly. The semi-gloss proved challenging when using a brush - we couldn't master the brush marks. Roller worked better, sprayer worked best but required two coats since it had to be thinned to spray effectively. Then we tried the satin finish and it's much easier to work with. Our neighbor recently used Scuff Defense flat finish with amazing results. There may come a time when we find a client willing to pay $70 per gallon to use the BM ScuffX product but until then, the Behr product is a cost effective quality product that in our experience, is easier to work with than other brands we've tried..


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## PSHERB (Sep 2, 2021)

jr.sr. painting said:


> My opinion is scuff x brushes/rolls faster, covers just as good, but the matte sheen is too shiny. With that being said we still use a majority of scuff x interior walls and trim. Stuff is really good. As far as the Behr scuff defense... no different than marquee or ppu but different label. There is no doubting the coverage of Behr. The doubt comes in with everything else at hd getting paint. Long lines, can’t phone in an order, utter incompetence. I’ll gladly pay 20$ more a gallon for scuff x. Not to mention supporting a local business. After all almost every painting business owner on this forum is a locally owned business, and your customers support you...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Establish a Pro account at HD and those lines and other frustrations you mentioned disappear. We're on a first name basis with our HD staff and we call in orders frequently.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

PSHERB said:


> Establish a Pro account at HD and those lines and other frustrations you mentioned disappear. We're on a first name basis with our HD staff and we call in orders frequently.


LMAO too funny...


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## jr.sr. painting (Dec 6, 2013)

PSHERB said:


> Establish a Pro account at HD and those lines and other frustrations you mentioned disappear. We're on a first name basis with our HD staff and we call in orders frequently.


They absolutely do not.I’ve had meetings with sales reps, regional reps, and store managers. Using more scuff on a large interior today and spraying the semi gloss. It turns out so nice. 


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

jr.sr. painting said:


> They absolutely do not.I’ve had meetings with sales reps, regional reps, and store managers. Using more scuff on a large interior today and spraying the semi gloss. It turns out so nice.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I thought it was funny "We're on a first name basis". Well no **** its written on their apron/uniform. Also I'm pretty sure every customer including DIY's know my first name so big deal. How many of those have my personal cell # and I would dig out of the snow at 2:00am middle of February? Any of them who ask for it.


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## PSHERB (Sep 2, 2021)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> I thought it was funny "We're on a first name basis". Well no **** its written on their apron/uniform. Also I'm pretty sure every customer including DIY's know my first name so big deal. How many of those have my personal cell # and I would dig out of the snow at 2:00am middle of February? Any of them who ask for it.


OK some have negative experiences and I've had positive experiences - the universe is big enough for both scenarios to be true. With regards to your other comments - I don't wear an apron or a name tag - they recognize me because I treat them with respect, yes they have my personal cell number, one of the managers was over last weekend for a pool party and it never snows here - even in February. Enough coffee talk already - I was honestly looking for folks who had experience with Scuff Defense. We had a tough time with the semi-gloss yesterday and the brush marks are still there. We used an quality100% nylon brush but didn't seem to help. Tomorrow we'll sand it down and try the satin finish.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

PSHERB said:


> OK some have negative experiences and I've had positive experiences - the universe is big enough for both scenarios to be true. With regards to your other comments - I don't wear an apron or a name tag - they recognize me because I treat them with respect, yes they have my personal cell number, one of the managers was over last weekend for a pool party and it never snows here - even in February. Enough coffee talk already - I was honestly looking for folks who had experience with Scuff Defense. We had a tough time with the semi-gloss yesterday and the brush marks are still there. We used an quality100% nylon brush but didn't seem to help. Tomorrow we'll sand it down and try the satin finish.


My point was that you might as well be saying your on a first name basis with the electronics guy at walmart. It's not at all any indication of level of service to be on a first name basis when its literally their job to wear name tags. I just thought it was an odd thing to bring up.

Regarding scuff defense; scuffX brushes like a dream and the semigloss produces a very hard slick surface. $69 may seem high to you, I have it for $54, but if it works and you don't have to keep banging your head against a wall to make it work. I wonder how much that $20 is costing you in labor.


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## celicaxx (May 29, 2015)

PSHERB said:


> OK some have negative experiences and I've had positive experiences - the universe is big enough for both scenarios to be true. With regards to your other comments - I don't wear an apron or a name tag - they recognize me because I treat them with respect, yes they have my personal cell number, one of the managers was over last weekend for a pool party and it never snows here - even in February. Enough coffee talk already - I was honestly looking for folks who had experience with Scuff Defense. We had a tough time with the semi-gloss yesterday and the brush marks are still there. We used an quality100% nylon brush but didn't seem to help. Tomorrow we'll sand it down and try the satin finish.


I've found for fast drying and thick paints, the best brush is a really stiff brush. I don't know particularly why, but perhaps because the stiff brush would have less drag and be able to push it around while it's drying. For a cheapie, something like the orange bristle HD/Linzer or even Harbor Freight orange bristle brush (I should review those, they're actually good brushes...) would probably work. Another decent stiff brush is the pink bristle Sherwin Williams "Contractor" brush, I think they were called Pro-Val at one point.

As far as Coco and BM vs Behr, etc. One thing I've learned is you can get away with essentially any paint on walls and ceilings. But on trim is where the rubber meets the road, and say for your average big house you're using 10-12 gallons on walls, and another 5-6 on ceilings, you're going to use probably about 2 gallons on trim. So even if you pay $100 a gallon for each gallon of trim paint, it still ends up a minuscule cost in comparison to your wall and ceiling paint but arguably it's where paint choice matters more. It's going to get touched, scratched, etc, the most out of any paint in the house. 

I think for trim paint, if you want to stick to Behr, perhaps try the urethane alkyd paint they make. I've not used the current version but the old WB alkyd version was actually really incredible and very close to BM Advance. The only problem is the urethane alkyd has a 4-6 hour recoat time, the old one was 16 hours like Advance and smelled a lot worse than Advance.

My first time using Aura actually pissed me off, because I thought "this is literally like using Behr Ultra." Obviously it's better, but yeah. My boss really liked it, though, because he could recoat after an hour or two, and get jobs done faster. So I'm assuming that could be the reason you're using Ultra now is partially for the fast dry/recoat but those kind of properties are mostly bad for any trim paint in the world. So if you want a cost efficient switch perhaps the Behr alkyd might be better, but you might need to change the workflow a bit if you're doing two coats in a day. For scuff resistance it would almost definitely beat Ultra as it's an oil hybrid and would dry as hard as oil.


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## PSHERB (Sep 2, 2021)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> My point was that you might as well be saying your on a first name basis with the electronics guy at walmart. It's not at all any indication of level of service to be on a first name basis when its literally their job to wear name tags. I just thought it was an odd thing to bring up.
> 
> Regarding scuff defense; scuffX brushes like a dream and the semigloss produces a very hard slick surface. $69 may seem high to you, I have it for $54, but if it works and you don't have to keep banging your head against a wall to make it work. I wonder how much that $20 is costing you in labor.


PLEASE READ BEFORE YOU REPLY - it's not that I know, or can find, their first names. Anyone can read the names on the aprons. I was saying that when I walk into my local HD, they recognize me and know MY first name - and I'm not wearing an apron or a name tag - I usually look like a sweaty mess cause it's over 100 degrees here this time of year. Many of the employees, and especially those at the paint desk, see me and say "hey Herb, what can I help you with today" - even if they're working on something else. That level of personal service is rare these days and in this case it is very much an indication of level of service. I'm nobody, part of a tiny 3-person operation, and yet they make me feel like a valued customer. I'm sorry you haven't had a similar experience at your HD - but the HD in PS has a great team that helps me with my paint and construction hurdles.


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## PSHERB (Sep 2, 2021)

celicaxx said:


> I've found for fast drying and thick paints, the best brush is a really stiff brush. I don't know particularly why, but perhaps because the stiff brush would have less drag and be able to push it around while it's drying. For a cheapie, something like the orange bristle HD/Linzer or even Harbor Freight orange bristle brush (I should review those, they're actually good brushes...) would probably work. Another decent stiff brush is the pink bristle Sherwin Williams "Contractor" brush, I think they were called Pro-Val at one point.
> 
> As far as Coco and BM vs Behr, etc. One thing I've learned is you can get away with essentially paint on walls and ceilings. But on trim is where the rubber meets the road, and say for your average big house you're using 10-12 gallons on walls, and another 5-6 on ceilings, you're going to use probably about 2 gallons on trim. So even if you pay $100 a gallon for each gallon of trim paint, it still ends up a minuscule cost in comparison to your wall and ceiling paint but arguably it's where paint choice matters more. It's going to get touched, scratched, etc, the most out of any paint in the house.
> 
> ...


Thank you Celicaxx, appreciate you sharing your insight. It's funny because we're actually painting the outside of this client's house - the larger model in our neighborhood and the desert stucco will easily take 20+ gallons, sprayed, just for the walls. The only thing they wanted inside was the staircase risers. The treads are beautifully stained but the builder made the treads too shallow so the white risers scuff constantly. Most houses here don't even have staircases so we were puzzled about what to use. The client balked at the BM Scuff X $70 price and the 20 miles I would have to drive to get it so they asked me to use Behr Scuff Defense. That's where my challenge began. BM products are not very popular around here because they're not easy to find and that Ultra Tec Scuff X requires an interstate road trip - for a single staircase set of risers. Next time I head over to LA I'll pick up a can of Scuff X just for the experience but no time for a road trip any time soon. Thanks again.


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## celicaxx (May 29, 2015)

PSHERB said:


> Thank you Celicaxx, appreciate you sharing your insight. It's funny because we're actually painting the outside of this client's house - the larger model in our neighborhood and the desert stucco will easily take 20+ gallons, sprayed, just for the walls. The only thing they wanted inside was the staircase risers. The treads are beautifully stained but the builder made the treads too shallow so the white risers scuff constantly. Most houses here don't even have staircases so we were puzzled about what to use. The client balked at the BM Scuff X $70 price and the 20 miles I would have to drive to get it so they asked me to use Behr Scuff Defense. That's where my challenge began. BM products are not very popular around here because they're not easy to find and that Ultra Tec Scuff X requires an interstate road trip - for a single staircase set of risers. Next time I head over to LA I'll pick up a can of Scuff X just for the experience but no time for a road trip any time soon. Thanks again.


If you're in CA you might be better off using something like Dunn Edwards Aristoshield compared to Behr. I don't think I've ever heard a bad word about that paint and it supposedly dries really hard. According to Google you have a Dunn Edwards dealer in Palm Springs. BM isn't the end all and be all of paint, it's just that a lot of the smaller indie paint manufacturers are dead now. My favorite was Muralo, who got their brand killed by California and their paint cheapened out. I'm sad as in New England we have no Dunn Edwards dealers and the only other indie paint company is California which is incredibly hard to find. The other problem, too, is our BM dealers were all taken over by two franchises, so there's no shopping around. 

Personally for our BM dealers, there's only one around that's a bit of a drive (about 15 miles) that I found gave exemplary customer service. The rest around here are kind of "eh, what do you want?" kinda grumpy old dudes. As much as there's SW hate here, my local SW actually gave me the best service out of any paint store, despite some of their products being definitely subpar.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

PSHERB said:


> PLEASE READ BEFORE YOU REPLY - it's not that I know, or can find, their first names. Anyone can read the names on the aprons. I was saying that when I walk into my local HD, they recognize me and know MY first name - and I'm not wearing an apron or a name tag - I usually look like a sweaty mess cause it's over 100 degrees here this time of year. Many of the employees, and especially those at the paint desk, see me and say "hey Herb, what can I help you with today" - even if they're working on something else. That level of personal service is rare these days and in this case it is very much an indication of level of service. I'm nobody, part of a tiny 3-person operation, and yet they make me feel like a valued customer. I'm sorry you haven't had a similar experience at your HD - but the HD in PS has a great team that helps me with my paint and construction hurdles.


You misunderstand. IMO that level of service should be *standard*, its why my business has been so successful when other companies are bleeding customers.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

celicaxx said:


> If you're in CA you might be better off using something like Dunn Edwards Aristoshield compared to Behr. I don't think I've ever heard a bad word about that paint and it supposedly dries really hard. According to Google you have a Dunn Edwards dealer in Palm Springs. BM isn't the end all and be all of paint, it's just that a lot of the smaller indie paint manufacturers are dead now. My favorite was Muralo, who got their brand killed by California and their paint cheapened out. I'm sad as in New England we have no Dunn Edwards dealers and the only other indie paint company is California which is incredibly hard to find. The other problem, too, is our BM dealers were all taken over by two franchises, so there's no shopping around.
> 
> Personally for our BM dealers, there's only one around that's a bit of a drive (about 15 miles) that I found gave exemplary customer service. The rest around here are kind of "eh, what do you want?" kinda grumpy old dudes. As much as there's SW hate here, my local SW actually gave me the best service out of any paint store, despite some of their products being definitely subpar.


DE aristoshield is a great product.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

So your using the ScuffX on trim? Why not use something like Advance Enamel. It flows out for miles. Way easier to brush. And it was designed for brushing /rolling trims..


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

Don't like home depot or behr much.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

fromthenorthwest said:


> Don't like home depot or behr much.


Why?

futtyos


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

futtyos said:


> Why?
> 
> futtyos


Well I'll start with the practical: 

-If I want to get paint from Home Depot, I have to go into the store, wait in line and order the paint when it's my turn, then wait for them to mix it up. I can't call in orders ahead of time to Home Depot. I've waited half an hour before at Home Depot when there was one person at the paint dept and it was swarmed by homeowners. At any of my local paint stores or even Sherwin-Williams, I can call in my order ahead of time drop by and grab it and go.

- At any of my local stores, the owner is usually in the store. In my experience, the owners of these small paint stores are walking TDS encyclopedias of the products they carry, and on many occasions have helped point me in the right direction not only in product selection but also in application procedure. If the owner is not there, there is almost always (at least) one highly experienced 'right hand man' at these stores who is as knowledgeable if not more so than the owner.

At least to me, those are reason enough to avoided places like Home Depot and Lowe's for paint. But also from a principle standpoint, I don't want my money to go to a large multinational like HD when it could go to the owner of a local paint store, someone who lives here and also spends their money here. It benefits the community not only economically but also strengthening ties of its local citizens. 

Either practical or principle, either way to me it's an easy decision.


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