# Bonding Agents



## superiorceilings (May 4, 2008)

I am getting into a condo unit that has Popcorn style texture on concrete ceilings. Someone has painted over the texture with a water based paint and texture is flaking off. I will be removing this texture and reapplying popcorn texture over the entire surface area.

My question is, what is the best primer for a concrete ceiling?

Thank you in advance.....


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## poet-1 (Mar 27, 2008)

superiorceilings said:


> ... My question is, what is the best primer for a concrete ceiling?
> 
> Thank you in advance.....


Hi, I thought SuperiorCeilings should know the best primer for any ceiling... Just j/k  

Regarding the answer, I don't know. There're seemingly two types of primer available outthere: oil-base and latex. I would go with the oil-base, which penetrates more into the surface's pores and dries hard, thus provides a firm and good subtrate to work on. 

Zinsser CoverStain and BM Alkyd primer are good products.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

For bonding things like portland cement or gypsum plaster skim coat to almost any surface, here in N.E. there is available a product called Weld-o-Bond by Silpro
http://www.silpro.com/datasheets/Silpro_Weldobond.pdf

It's looks and smells a lot like white aliphatic glue (Elmer's white glue)

I've heard in Calif at the Big Box stores there is a similar product by USG that is displayed with the wall board and JC.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

poet-1 said:


> I would go with the oil-base, which penetrates more into the surface's pores and dries hard, thus provides a firm and good subtrate to work on.



Poet,

Actually, because of "saponification" oil based coatings can be disaterous on concrete or other lime based surfaces. Although the risks are most notable on uncured (high pH) surfaces, I have seen saponification when oil based coating were applied to old unpainted concrete. 

And although I am an advocate of oil primers on wood, waterborne primers have, for me, always obtained a better bond on things like gypsum plaster, JC, and wall board.


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## superiorceilings (May 4, 2008)

Well beeing a ceiling company, I do know of what bonding agents to use but as you can see from my posts, that is my first one and I wanted to see what other novice' would use.

I have heard of people mixing weldbond right into their texture mix and even using weldbond as a Sealer/Primer. So with a name like Weld-o-bond, I am sure silpro has amalgamated with weldbond and created a ready to use application.

Sheetrock also makes a product called First coat which is suppost to hide joint photographing and joint banding and states it is an excellent bonding agent for porus surfaces such as Concrete. I know, Joint bandign and Photographing have nothing to do with concrete but I thought I would through it in there anyway.

I may try the Sheetrock First Coat as I do not particularly like running oil-base through my guns and Sheetrock is a Latex.

Thanks guys.....


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## Tonyg (Dec 9, 2007)

daArch said:


> Poet,
> 
> Actually, because of "saponification" oil based coatings can be disaterous on concrete or other lime based surfaces. Although the risks are most notable on uncured (high pH) surfaces, I have seen saponification when oil based coating were applied to old unpainted concrete.
> 
> And although I am an advocate of oil primers on wood, waterborne primers have, for me, always obtained a better bond on things like gypsum plaster, JC, and wall board.


 
I was going to say that a waterborne primer would have been better but I am still going through the thesaurus to find a better word than "saponificatication" . Maybe I'll hit the dictionary first :blink:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Tonyg said:


> I was going to say that a waterborne primer would have been better but I am still going through the thesaurus to find a better word than "saponificatication" . Maybe I'll hit the dictionary first :blink:


Before I learned the word "saponification" I used "reconstitute" or "re-liquify". Because I seen apparantly dry oil paint turn tacky and liquidy.(There's a word I've gotten hell for before)

"Turning to soap" or "hydrolyze" are real synonyms

here is wikipedia's non-coatings specific explanation of the chemical process:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saponification


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

superiorceilings said:


> I have heard of people mixing weldbond right into their texture mix and even using weldbond as a Sealer/Primer. So with a name like Weld-o-bond, I am sure silpro has amalgamated with weldbond and created a ready to use application.
> 
> ....


Never heard of "Weldbond" before, but seeing their website, it "looks" like a similar product. Do you know of any product data sheet on it? I'm real curious to see if it is another aliphatic based bonding agent. 

As you cajn read from the Weld-o-Bond pdf, it too can be mixed into the cement or plaster.

I gotta say, about 30 years ago I tried to patch a small area in a ceiling using lime skim coat. It cracked and de-bonded almost immediately. A seasoned professional, after shaking his head at the stupid kid painter, suggested Weld-o-Bond. I've been sold on it ever since. I've used it to patch concrete, cement, plaster, etc. Whenever I feel there will be a bonding issue, I coat first with Weld-o-bond. 

I suspect Weldbond is as reliable.


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## painterman (Jun 2, 2007)

Emulsabond mixed with any latex primer makes an excellent bonding primer


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