# Payment Due Upon Completion



## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

I finished up the painting of 2 bedrooms yesterday and it was late, so I left my drop cloths down and some equipment in the rooms. Figured I would go back early this morning, for a quick clean up and broom sweep. The work is for a guy's 82 year old mother - he is the person paying me. He was coming out to the jobsite yesterday, after I left, to inspect. I asked him to leave payment for me (with his mother), due to the fact that he would be at his job, and unable to be there to pay me, when I was cleaning up.

This is my payment schedule on the contract:

*PAYMENT SCHEDULE:* A DEPOSIT TOTALING 1/3 DUE UPON START OF WORK: $600.00 REMAINING BALANCE DUE BY THE END OF BUSINESS ON THE DAY OF COMPLETION: $1,200.00

This is the email I received from the customer: 

_"Customer: I stopped out at house today – looks like you did a nice job! – I didn’t have a check yet as I prefer to make final payment after my final inspection – after clean up & I get paid tomorrow – So I’ll have a check made up tomorrow for $1200.00 & I’ll stop after work tomorrow to do final inspection & you can either pick up check then around 4PM or Sat – or if either of those times are not good I can mail you check out & you should have it the beginning of next week.
Let me know what works best for you."_

*What is it with people?* Do they even read the contract?

I have a better idea, why don't you drive to my location and pay me after you inspect the 2nd time. :blink:


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## Painter-Aaron (Jan 17, 2013)

IMHO one to two days for payment is awesome. It's better obviously when they pay you right there. But I would never push it unless I desperately needed the money, which is what it looks like if you get upward about not getting paid two min after. 
If your concerned about the time wasted going to collect, they can always mail it or you can start accepting credit cards. 
I know it's on your contract but it's not worth potentially losing a customer over.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Painter-Aaron said:


> IMHO one to two days for payment is awesome. It's better obviously when they pay you right there. But I would never push it unless I desperately needed the money, which is what it looks like if you get upward about not getting paid two min after.
> If your concerned about the time wasted going to collect, they can always mail it or you can start accepting credit cards.
> I know it's on your contract but it's not worth potentially losing a customer over.


Exactly, that desperation doesn't exactly convey professionalism.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Speaking strictly as a customer, since I have no authority to speak as a painting contractor, I would have read...


> *PAYMENT SCHEDULE:* A DEPOSIT TOTALING 1/3 DUE UPON START OF WORK: $600.00 REMAINING BALANCE DUE BY THE END OF BUSINESS ON THE DAY OF COMPLETION: $1,200.00


... exactly as it was written.

Drop cloths laying around with equipment scattered about, does not convey "completion" to _me._ Just an opinion.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

Gough said:


> Exactly, that desperation doesn't exactly convey professionalism.


If the contract states: *REMAINING BALANCE DUE BY THE END OF BUSINESS ON THE DAY OF COMPLETION: $1,200.00*

I don't deviate from the contract, and I don't expect the client to do so either.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

CApainter said:


> Speaking strictly as a customer, since I have no authority to speak as a painting contractor, I would have read... ... exactly as it was written.
> 
> Drop cloths laying around with equipment scattered about, does not convey "completion" to _me._ Just an opinion.


*REMAINING BALANCE DUE BY THE END OF BUSINESS ON THE DAY OF COMPLETION: $1,200.00** Let me explain the legal language here: *I give a specific time the job will be completed, the client comes home at that time, and pays the final bill.

If he can not be there, then I expect the customer to leave the check with his mother. (it is her home), she is fully capable of handing me the check after clean up.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

This thread is incredibly relevant to my situation today, and a good laugh I was just having with my wife.

I've never had to use a contract in the entire 12yrs I've been painting. Given that until the last few years all I did was doing residential repaints it's never seemed necessary (I'm really beginning to form the opinion that the Canadian painting industry is a little more relaxed up here with this stuff than you guys have to deal with down there). You don't absolutely need a contract to paint Little Jimmy's bedroom or a bathroom and I'm sure my customers would think I was nuts if I tried to get them to sign one.

I've had very few situations where I had to wait much longer than a week or so to get paid. On my invoices I've never had a "Payment due upon completion" line or anything like that. Maybe I'm stupid for this and that's ok. I've been called worse.

However, over the last couple of years I've started working for contractors. One, who's a friend of mine is great. He'll drive to my house with a cheque, or hand me one when I'm leaving a job even if I only have a number ready for him and haven't even invoiced him. His wife who does his books has told me a few times that I have to start adding a "Payment is due" line on my invoices as she's worried I'm going to get burned some day by someone.

The other guy I started working for recently is a good guy. He does way more business than my GC friend and I really want to work for him. However, he also grinds you more about deadlines/working longer hours/charging less/how much his last painter charged/etc.

I gave this guy an invoice almost two weeks ago. I've received two calls from him since then about scheduling and the next project ("Which had better cost less"). No mention of a cheque waiting for me at his office or anything. I'm done with the last project. Post delivery inspection done with no mention of any painting touch ups required. Customer is more than happy about the painting work.

For you guys that are involved in larger projects/bigger business/bigger contractors, is this normal? Am I a complete idiot for not stating terms on my invoices? (While typing this I did just add a payment due upon completion to my invoice template.)

I've got close to $8K sitting out there and I honestly haven't gotten paid by anyone since a week before Christmas. If you don't count the $120 I won in a 50/50 draw at the local pub a couple of weeks ago while watching a great blues band.

Wow, this post is long. Sorry 'bout that. Mom made me take grade 9 typing a long time ago and I can type almost as quick as I can think.


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## Painter-Aaron (Jan 17, 2013)

If it's a big company that you know may take a while to pay, yes it needs to be stated when they are required to pay. And if they deviate from it it needs to be addressed. Also i would never expect a payment from a bigger company within two weeks. If they do that's great.

But a residential job. Your not going to get repeat business if you get upset over a payment not made before you leave the site. It's desperate and a total waste of your reputation. 

Sueing them won't do anything either. 

I know it's written in your contract but man there's gotta be some understanding. 

I got pulled over a month ago for going 50 in a 30 zone. The only problem was that 2 days earlier it was a 50 zone and I didn't realize it had changed there. (Missed the sign)

That's a 200$ + ticket. But she gave me a warning. Glad not everything is strictly by the books. But I guess you would be understanding if you were in that situation and she gave you the ticket. "Thanks ma'am, I know iv been a good driver and never get pulled over abd 2 days ago I wouldn't have been speeding but gotta go by the books! I'll be happy to pay this!"


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

CApainter said:


> Speaking strictly as a customer, since I have no authority to speak as a painting contractor, I would have read... ... exactly as it was written.
> 
> Drop cloths laying around with equipment scattered about, does not convey "completion" to _me._ Just an opinion.



exactly the way I see it, your certainly not finished if you still have to clean up.

I think the old guy had every right to do what he did, and the fact you dont actually see it from his view points is even more worrisome


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

Dave Mac said:


> exactly the way I see it, your certainly not finished if you still have to clean up.
> 
> I think the old guy had every right to do what he did, and the fact you dont actually see it from his view points is even more worrisome


Mac, on the day of completion, I give my customer the estimated time of completion, and 99.999% of the time, they come home from work and pay me as the contract states. I don't expect anyone to pay me before I am done and cleaned up.

However:
Can you come back later to get paid? No
Can you come back tomorrow to get paid? No
Can I mail you the check? No

This guys job is 1/2 hour drive oneway. I don't know about you, but every time I start up my truck in costs money.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Heya Bill,

As someone who's also tied up in the tech/software industry, all I can say is: It's always better to cover your bases. Even for people you've known for a while, I'd recommend doing a short, simple contract. In the software industry it's much, much worse than painting but I've learned people can burn you in all kinds of ways if you aren't careful.

Aside from payment terms you should also cover job responsibility and time frame. If you do bigger jobs (anything with a GC) I wouldn't do it without signing something about specific responsibilities. There's huge liability for you if you don't. Determine who's responsible for cleaning substrate (if applicable), who picks the coatings, etc.

It's nice to think the best of people (especially friends and people we work with often), but the reality is a small-to-medium sized painting operation can be sunk on a single job if stuff goes pear-shaped and there's no contracts to be found.

Just my 2c on the subject.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

When we've got clients that are more than 10-15 minutes away, which is rare, a SASE seems like an easy alternative, as long as you can put food on the table until the mailman arrives.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Honestly, once the job is complete, I email out a final invoice with any adjustments that may be needed and put payment due upon receipt. Customers then mail out a check in the next few days to a week typically.

I do not take a down payment.

I only do partial payments if the the job takes more than a month.

Otherwise, I just send out a bill when the job is done.

I am not going to require a customer to come home to pay me when we walk of the job. I would never even consider it, to be honest.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

May be time to consider rewriting your contract PaintersUnite. Unless you're that desperate to have the money right away, in my humble opinion it's not a particularly reasonable contract. If you do need the money that bad... well... nothing we can say will help you out/you want to hear.


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

PaintersUnite said:


> Mac, on the day of completion, I give my customer the estimated time of completion, and 99.999% of the time, they come home from work and pay me as the contract states. I don't expect anyone to pay me before I am done and cleaned up.
> 
> However:
> Can you come back later to get paid? No
> ...



I here ya Joe, that's why I get a lot of payments in the mail. You are technically correct, however from a customer service stand point I think you should re consider your stance.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

PaintersUnite said:


> *REMAINING BALANCE DUE BY THE END OF BUSINESS ON THE DAY OF COMPLETION: $1,200.00** Let me explain the legal language here: *I give a specific time the job will be completed, the client comes home at that time, and pays the final bill.
> 
> If he can not be there, then I expect the customer to leave the check with his mother. (it is her home), she is fully capable of handing me the check after clean up.


It seems to me DID offer to pay you when the job was COMPLETE. He said you could come today after 4 to pick up your check. You said you still had clean-up to do today, right? Your contract states that payment is due by the end of the business day of completion, right? Am I missing something?

Maybe he didn't want to put his 82 year-old mother in the position of having to potentially withhold a check in the event she spotted something amiss. Would you put YOUR mom in that situation? Maybe he wanted to make sure there was no paint spills or anything which he couldn't see, due to your drops still being down.

If you want to try re-wording your contract and see if you can get away with getting paid after paint is applied, but before clean-up, go for it. If not, (speaking only as a dumb contractor who has NEVER been to court, nor involved in a lawsuit regarding non-payment in 17 years I've owned my company), I don't think you have a legal-leg to stand on.

One last point, if you're still reading this. It sounded like the guy was happy with your work. That's awesome. You've been in this business long enough to know the importance of a good referral and the potential detriment of a bad one, so is it really worth ending on a sour note by getting all worked up about it? After all, you said 99.99% of the time, your customers pay you upon completion, so why in the world would you make a fuss over .01% of your clientele? JMHO.

Hope all goes well.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

I hope/think he's probably still treating the guy with professional courtesy. I come on boards like this to **** and moan about customers sometimes, too, but I always treat them right. I'm sure he is as well.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Although I can see how chasing down payments could be a PITA for a OMS. I do it like Dean, email invoice and expect check in mail. Upon completion, doesn't exactly mean the second you finish, it just implies that you expect to be paid within a reasonable time frame when you are finished. I wouldn't sweat this a all. If he mails the check, then you are good to go in a day or two max.


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## Scannell Painting (Sep 25, 2010)

DeanV said:


> Honestly, once the job is complete, I email out a final invoice with any adjustments that may be needed and put payment due upon receipt. Customers then mail out a check in the next few days to a week typically.
> 
> I do not take a down payment.
> 
> ...


 Dead on, exactly how we operate.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

Woodford said:


> *May be time to consider rewriting your contract PaintersUnite.*
> Unless you're that desperate to have the money right away, in my humble opinion it's not a particularly reasonable contract. If you do need the money that bad... well... nothing we can say will help you out/you want to hear.


 Well, Woodford, the language of my contract came from ProWallGuys file share thread. 


ProWallGuy said:


> Here is a copy of a Contract.doc I use, and a change order form...


 Woodford, I assure you, money is not an issue for me. I could take off from work and go on vacation to the Bahamas for 1 year. Really!

This is my point - the customer signed the contract, and I expect him to honor it. I'm funny that way. :whistling2:I don't want to have to chase after my money. That is why I use the language in the contract.


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## cardwizzard (Sep 13, 2010)

Seems your getting your knickers in a twist over nothing. 

1. Your not finished the job, as the drop clothes are still down, and you have too clean up.

2. The man has said you've done good work and as offered to pay in various ways.

3. Relax

Sent from my D5503 using PaintTalk.com mobile app


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

PaintersUnite said:


> *REMAINING BALANCE DUE BY THE END OF BUSINESS ON THE DAY OF COMPLETION: $1,200.00** Let me explain the legal language here: *I give a specific time the job will be completed, the client comes home at that time, and pays the final bill.
> 
> If he can not be there, then I expect the customer to leave the check with his mother. (it is her home), she is fully capable of handing me the check after clean up.


Wow, the client is supposed to re arrange his(or her) whole life just to accommodate YOU, my your special. You really just should have been a damn lawyer instead of painting


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## MIZZOU (Nov 18, 2012)

Paintersunite is an ironic username for someone so divisive


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

PaintersUnite said:


> Well, Woodford, the language of my contract came from ProWallGuys file share thread.
> 
> Woodford, I assure you, money is not an issue for me. I could take off from work and go on vacation to the Bahamas for 1 year. Really!
> 
> This is my point - the customer signed the contract, and I expect him to honor it. I'm funny that way. :whistling2:I don't want to have to chase after my money. That is why I use the language in the contract.


I think from what you and everyone else is describing, people are just suggesting that you round off the corners in your contract and accept the idea that you're getting your money 24 hrs later than is stated in said contract. In doing so , it's more likely you'll be going back for more work without upsetting anyone.

Just my thoughts. Contracts are contracts and if I was dealing with computers, I'd agree with you that we have an error here but we aren't.

I don't know, maybe these people were a pain to deal with or something, but the way I'm reading it I don't see this being a huge issue.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Woodford said:


> I hope/think he's probably still treating the guy with professional courtesy. I come on boards like this to **** and moan about customers sometimes, too, but I always treat them right. I'm sure he is as well.


wanna bet?


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

This is from a big time contractors contract in my area. He is completely out of the bucket, with an office in an industrial park, and a secretary who answers the phone 9 am to 5 pm. The guy's been in business for 25 years and I have admiration for his success. He is like a mini Roamer. 

His Contract:

 *Customer Responsibility*
• Please take specific note of job description.
• Please have all colors chosen one (1) week prior to start date. Additional costs may be charged for color changes made after commencement of work. 
• Please have fragile or breakable items and electronics moved out of work areas prior to start of project.
• Please have all alarms turned off while work is in progress.
• Customer is to be available to meet with foreman on the last day of job 

*Payment *
• One third to be paid prior to start date. 
• The balance is to be paid in full to the crew leader on the last day of the job. 
• Progress payments will be required throughout the course the job on projects over $10,000.00.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

PaintersUnite said:


> This is from a big time contractors contract in my area. He is completely out of the bucket, with an office in an industrial park, and a secretary who answers the phone 9 am to 5 pm. The guy's been in business for 25 years and I have admiration for his success. He is like a mini Roamer. His Contract: Customer Responsibility &#149; Please take specific note of job description. &#149; Please have all colors chosen one (1) week prior to start date. Additional costs may be charged for color changes made after commencement of work. &#149; Please have fragile or breakable items and electronics moved out of work areas prior to start of project. &#149; Please have all alarms turned off while work is in progress. &#149; Customer is to be available to meet with foreman on the last day of job Payment &#149; One third to be paid prior to start date. &#149; The balance is to be paid in full to the crew leader on the last day of the job. &#149; Progress payments will be required throughout the course the job on projects over $10,000.00.


I realize that my clients have more important things to do than rearrange their schedules to accommodate my payment. I would never want to come across as impatient and demanding at the time of payment, as such behavior could leave a lasting impression.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

I do on completion as well and the majority of the time I get paid the day I finish. :yes:

What's at play here is the definition of "on completion." Personally I consider a job completed when all my stuff is loaded and the house is put back to the way I found it. 

It's an inconvenience for you but I don't think it's worth fussing over and potentially loosing future referrals.


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## Carl (Jun 18, 2011)

I agree and think you are still missing the point. Contracts are designed to prevent the contractor from getting screwed, but honestly most of the time when dealing with residential customers, they are not even needed. If I hired a painter, I'm not so sure that I would be all that concerned about reading all the fine print in the contract either. It's simple really...you paint, you get paid...what the heck does it matter if you get paid on the day you finish or if the check arrives a few days later in the mail? I hope you don't need the money immediately to pay a drug dealer.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

chrisn said:


> *Wow, the client is supposed to re arrange his(or her) whole life just to accommodate YOU*, my your special. You really just should have been a damn lawyer instead of painting


Yes! If that is what he signed.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> I realize that my clients have more important things to do than rearrange their schedules to accommodate my payment. I would never want to come across as impatient and demanding at the time of payment, as such behavior could leave a lasting impression.


George, let me ask you this: do you require your painters to chase after money? 

Example:
"guys, I will have your pay on Saturday" or, "you guys can stop at my place at 7pm to get your checks" or, guys, I will mail you your check, you should get it in the mail mid week, next week". I hope not?

CApainter: would you not flip if your check wasn't there on pay day? 

I have seen and worked for painting contractors that pull this stuff.


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## Painter-Aaron (Jan 17, 2013)

Here's the solution to your problem. 

Under the price in your contract. Add. I will charge 50$ to your price for not having a cheque ready for me before the bank closes on the final day. If we are finishing on a day the bank is closed, customer must have the cheque ready for me on a day the bank is open regardless if the job is 100%
And if you refuse to pay the 50$ I will take you to court because this is a VERY legal contract


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

Eeeh. I put in for my 40 Yesterday. I will get my check by next Thursday.....I'm always a week behind as a employee.
But Yeh. It will be there. No doubt. By Thursday.


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## Painter-Aaron (Jan 17, 2013)

Oden said:


> Eeeh. I put in for my 40 Yesterday. I will get my check by next Thursday.....I'm always a week behind as a employee.
> But Yeh. It will be there. No doubt. By Thursday.


Hopefully we don't see you on judge Judy

But if we do , I'll be rooting for you


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

I would never ask a customer for the final payment until all my stuff was out, house cleaned and put back together. Even if some one else was paying I wouldn't expect it other wise.

Now if the jobs clean and they didn't leave a final check I simple meet them with in a couple days. I don't like having to chase checks but if I do oh well what can I do except get pissed and worked up. 

Not only does our estimates have payment schedule so does our contract. I also let the HO's know a day before it's due. If they have to wait until their paycheck clear it sucks but again oh well can't stress about it.


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## Brian C (Oct 8, 2011)

demanding payment the moment you finish is indicating you are desperate for the money. I would have been pleased to receive my payment within a week of finishing the work.

If you got a 3rd deposit, then that covers your out of pocket petrol and materials cost.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

PaintersUnite said:


> George, let me ask you this: do you require your painters to chase after money? Example: "guys, I will have your pay on Saturday" or, "you guys can stop at my place at 7pm to get your checks" or, guys, I will mail you your check, you should get it in the mail mid week, next week". I hope not? CApainter: would you not flip if your check wasn't there on pay day? I have seen and worked for painting contractors that pull this stuff.


I always bring my employee's check to the job site. I figure that is part of my job and duty. I don't hold my customers to that same standard though. To me, emailing the invoice, and expecting payment in a few days is perfectly acceptable. A lot of my work is invoice on the 1st, and get paid on the 10th for the previous month's work. So if I get paid anytime near completion, then I'm thrilled. Like I said before, I realize how it could potentially be different for a OMS though.


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## Painter-Aaron (Jan 17, 2013)

Double post


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

With our employees are required to have bank accounts. No bank account, go open one. Our accountant will only do direct deposit. Pay stubs emailed and mailed to them. Their money is in their bank Friday at 12:01 am.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

Only to weigh in as a sometimes consumer
I'd rather mail ur check to you just like I pay every bill
Really. I'd rather look at the work. Read the bill. Tell the old lady 'pay this'.....
I certainly have no insistence on using a higher bidder. Not me. But I do think. If ur going for the higher bid market expecting to get paid with wet paint on the wall and you just uncovered the place and are loading ur van may not be the way to operate.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

Oden said:


> Eeeh. I put in for my 40 Yesterday. I will get my check by *next Thursday*.....I'm always a week behind as a employee.
> But Yeh. It will be there. No doubt. By Thursday.


Yes Oden, I've been an employee, so I understand the company needs time to produce payroll. I never had a problem with that, because that is always discussed during the job offer. 

So here is the question: how would you feel if the check was not there come next Thursday as expected? :blink: You would not go fruitcake on your employer? :jester:


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> I realize that my clients have more important things to do than rearrange their schedules to accommodate my payment. I would never want to come across as impatient and demanding at the time of payment, as such behavior could leave a lasting impression.


Not to mention actually taking them to court (or even threatening to).

I really have to wonder what a judge's reaction would be to a suit filed because someone didn't pay on the day they were supposed to? I almost think they wouldn't be inclined to rule against someone who had paid within 30 days, or maybe even longer, from when the job was completed - regardless of what the contract says. Most are interested in resolving an issue and they would likely just order payment to be made with maybe a little extra interest thrown in. And a well written contract would call for that anyway. JMHO.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

PaintersUnite said:


> Yes Oden, I've been an employee, so I understand the company needs time to produce payroll. I never had a problem with that, because that is always discussed during the job offer. So here is the question: how would you feel if the check was not there come next Thursday as expected? :blink: You would not go fruitcake on your employer? :jester:


Just honestly. There have been times because I get paid by mail it has been late. Very very rare. I let it roll off. I always got my money. But just honestly 'go fruitcake' mean get nasty, cuss em out or threaten............no way. I'd get laid off. And quick. And I'd never work for him again. A good few years at least I'd guess. No matter how good you paint ' go fruitcake' and get laid off. You handle things in civil ways. Businesslike.


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## davezedlee (May 27, 2012)

Just go back and shoot the guy AND his mother

Trust me, you'll be WAY happier you did!


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

RH said:


> Not to mention actually taking them to court (or even threatening to).
> 
> I really have to wonder what a judge's reaction would be to a suit filed because someone didn't pay on the day they were supposed to? I almost think they wouldn't be inclined to rule against someone who had paid within 30 days, or maybe even longer, from when the job was completed - regardless of what the contract says. Most are interested in resolving an issue and they would likely just order payment to be made with maybe a little extra interest thrown in. And a well written contract would call for that anyway. JMHO.


It would be ridiculous to sue anyone because the payment was a day or 2 late. Belly laughs, RH. To me, it's about the inconvenience of driving back to the home (30 min drive up, 30 min drive back) to get paid.

Question: how many people drive off from the auto shop, without paying the mechanic the final bill first? 

Can you imagination that? 

Dear Mr auto mechanic, you can come to my house tonight or tomorrow night to get paid. Or, I can just put the check in the mail. :blink:


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

At the end of the day, do whatever you're going to do. People here are just suggesting what they would do/have done in your situation. It's up to you at this point.

The consensus here appears to be that waiting for a day isn't that big a deal. I don't think that's big a story or worth that big an argument.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

This is a very interesting thread. It reveals a lot.


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

#1 What does your contract state for late payment ? With mine it say due at completion of job any payment not received after 7 day a late fee of ...

i have heard of late fees after 5 day, 7 day or 30 day but after only 1 day? Don't think a court anywhere would enforce that

#2 what if you told you customer that you would start a 8AM but in the morning your truck wouldn't start and you had to jump it and you was late would you want the HO to sue you in court because you told them you would be there at 8 AM

#3 If you really can afford a vacation to the Bahamas or anywhere you might want to take it, your a little up tight


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

Wildbill7145 said:


> At the end of the day, do whatever you're going to do. People here are just suggesting what they would do/have done in your situation. It's up to you at this point.
> 
> *The consensus here appears to be that waiting for a day isn't that big a deal. *I don't think that's big a story or worth that big an argument.


Yep. Forty-something posts into this and the OP is still all alone on this one.

Gas is cheap at the moment. You can afford to chill in the Bahamas for entire year, so lack of money isn't an issue. About all I can add is that sometimes the letter of the law (contract wording) isn't as important as the spirit of the law (the customer has acted in good faith). 

Customer has given you options for payment, just take him up on the one that best suits you (other than the "pay me now while you are standing on my drop cloths").


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Repaint Florida said:


> #1 What does your contract state for late payment ? With mine it say due at completion of job any payment not received after 7 day a late fee of ...
> 
> i have heard of late fees after 5 day, 7 day or 30 day but after only 1 day? Don't think a court anywhere would enforce that
> 
> ...


So, is 15 minutes unreasonable?


----------



## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

SemiproJohn said:


> Yep. Forty-something posts into this and the OP is still all alone on this one.


..............


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

Wildbill7145 said:


> *At the end of the day, do whatever you're going to do. People here are just suggesting what they would do/have done in your situation. It's up to you at this point.*
> 
> The consensus here appears to be that waiting for a day isn't that big a deal. I don't think that's big a story or worth that big an argument.


Bill, here is what I did. I went back to clean the job up at 3pm (rather than 8am) and by the time I cleaned up, the client was there to pay me at 4pm. So far, my idea was the best! One trip up, one trip back,* Check is now in the bank!* 

Now I am going to the bar with my sexy girlfriend. Enjoy your evening PT. You too CApainter. :jester:


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

SemiproJohn said:


> Yep. Forty-something posts into this and the OP is still all alone on this one.
> 
> Gas is cheap at the moment. *You can afford to chill in the Bahamas for entire year, so lack of money isn't an issue.* About all I can add is that sometimes the letter of the law (contract wording) isn't as important as the spirit of the law (the customer has acted in good faith).
> 
> Customer has given you options for payment, just take him up on the one that best suits you (other than the "pay me now while you are standing on my drop cloths").


Yea John, this really confused me, because I could only imagine a professional painting contractor, that can afford such a vacation time in such an exotic location, would never bother with such triviality as a slight mix up in communication over the payment of a measly $1,200.00.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

CApainter said:


> Yea Gough, this really confused me, because I could only imagine a professional painting contractor, that can afford such a vacation time in such an exotic location, would never bother with such triviality as a slight mix up in communication over the payment of a measly $1,200.00.


Um, thanks, I guess, although that wasn't my comment to which you replied. Carry on.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PaintersUnite said:


> Bill, here is what I did. I went back to clean the job up at 3pm (rather than 8am) and by the time I cleaned up, the client was there to pay me at 4pm. So far, my idea was the best! One trip up, one trip back,* Check is now in the bank!*
> 
> Now I am going to the bar with my sexy girlfriend. Enjoy your evening PT. You too CApainter. :jester:


I am so glad everything worked out given you were so troubled about getting paid per your contract, that you had to confide in an internet forum. If I was right next to you at the bar, I would buy you both a drink!


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Gough said:


> Um, thanks, I guess, although that wasn't my comment to which you replied. Carry on.


Corrected.Thanks.


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

the life of a painter .....

Check is now in the bank! Now I am going to the bar :whistling2:

now i understand


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Repaint Florida said:


> the life of a painter .....
> 
> Check is now in the bank! Now I am going to the bar :whistling2:
> 
> now i understand


Funny thing is, I don't think anyone here ever thought PaintersUnite _wasn't _going to get paid, except for paintersUnite. It seems all of our confidence in him persevered. At least that's how I understood it.


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

I don't see the problem. He was following the letter of your contract. Completion is when the truck is packed and the house is painted and clean. A final inspection gives them the chance to look at the work AND check for damages.
He complemented your work and wants to pay promptly. Sounds like a fine customer. If anything it sounds like things are a bit tight for him and he may have needed one more day for his check to clear. If that's the case then it's golden rule stuff for me and I work with them, cause things happen. Being understanding and flexible has yielded me just as much value in friendships and relations with customers as it has financially. Never know what good might come of it. And my largest customers are verbal contract only and on monthly billing. Maybe I'll get burned someday, but I like the idea of trusting those who appear, act and speak in a way that is worthy of it. That said almost every new customers first job is written contract, some remain on contract for subsequent jobs most don't.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

You seem like a very reasonable person PRC. 

As a customer, I would be overwhelmed with your understanding and courteous disposition, and most certainly would request your services as the need presented itself.

It is without question and obvious, as it relates to homeownership, that good workmanship will be promptly rewarded as obligated, once the work is completed.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

I decided it wasn't worth stirring the post so...


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Yeah, what's the point?!


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

PaintersUnite said:


> Yes! If that is what he signed.


you need help:yes:


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

I'm just gonna throw out there as a closing thought:

I have a feeling the wording in the contract you linked is more to protect the painter from people not paying at all. It's very important, in court, to have a pay by date, and having it the day the work is done gives you a very solid thing to point to, and also gives you the most chance of better returns from the settlement (since it makes the time overdue disproportionately high). I would be willing to wager very, very few people (other than large commercial/industrial work, which is a whole different game) expect homeowners to *actually* hand them a check the minute they're done with painting.

Another thing I've learned in the software industry: When you make Terms of Use and other contracts, it's just to cover your arse. In most cases you don't enforce it down to the letter, and in many cases that wouldn't be good for ANYONE involved.


Edit: Oh, and congrats on being loaded. I have days where I'm worried I might not be able to put food on the table, but I'm still not this worked up over "late" payments.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Our contract says payment due uppon completion and has an estimated end date without extras. Again if they can't pay that day I'm not going to loose my mind over it. 

Word of mouth spreads fast and if this guy decides to start telling people how you acted and got pissy because he didn't pay you the exact second you were done. They would hurt your business.


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

Writing style and use of fonts/colors will tell you a lot about somebody. 

In fact, its a dead giveaway.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

The wording on that contract looks awfully familiar. Reading it, I had this incredible sense of _deja vu_ .


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

I think the customer being present at the end, or slightly before for the walkthrough 
is more important than the magic moment of payment.
If there is anything to address, it's better while the crew, the paint and painters are still there.
We send invoice the last day of the job.
Most pay with the same credit card of the deposit, 
some mail a cheque, some leave payment with the crew.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Is it really necessary to do all this for a 2-day job for one guy? OK, maybe three days if you have to stop by on the third day to load out.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

cdpainting said:


> Our contract says payment due uppon completion and has an estimated end date without extras. Again if they can't pay that day I'm not going to loose my mind over it.
> 
> *Word of mouth spreads fast and if this guy decides to start telling people how you acted and got pissy because he didn't pay you the exact second you were done. They would hurt your business.*


Pissy? As far as me and the client was concerned, I acted total pro, with a touch of elegance towards him. The son came home to pay me (gave me a $20 tip), we had a 45 min friendly convo, he thanked me for doing a great job, and being kind to his 82 year old mother while I worked there. And the mother told me she was going to miss me when I left, said I kept her company (she lives there alone). Not kidding.

The son is bringing me back to do exterior work in the spring. *So CD, don't assume the worst if you were not present to witness the business transaction.* :thumbsup:

I B!tch/vent here, not to the customer, ever.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I've had customers hug me when I've completed a job. Like I was their only son shipping out over seas or something. Some people get real emotional with the painting experience. I empathize with that.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

CApainter said:


> I've had customers hug me when I've completed a job. Like I was their only son shipping out over seas or something. Some people get real emotional with the painting experience. I empathize with that.



A new brush fresh out of it's cover makes me tear up every time.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

cdpainting said:


> Our contract says payment due uppon completion and has an estimated end date without extras. Again if they can't pay that day I'm not going to loose my mind over it.
> 
> Word of mouth spreads fast and if this guy decides to start telling people how you acted and got pissy because he didn't pay you the exact second you were done. They would hurt your business.


I Googled "pissy" and this is was what popped up. 




PaintersUnite said:


> I finished up the painting of 2 bedrooms yesterday and it was late, so I left my drop cloths down and some equipment in the rooms. Figured I would go back early this morning, for a quick clean up and broom sweep. The work is for a guy's 82 year old mother - he is the person paying me. He was coming out to the jobsite yesterday, after I left, to inspect. I asked him to leave payment for me (with his mother), due to the fact that he would be at his job, and unable to be there to pay me, when I was cleaning up.
> 
> This is my payment schedule on the contract:
> 
> ...


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

RH said:


> A new brush fresh out of it's cover makes me tear up every time.


I don't mean to derail or anything, but when I can actually spray out an entire room with PPG Pitt Tech, and leave a perfect finish without one single run, my body actually begins to tremble with the feeling of accomplishment. These are the moments I live for.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

I cried a little bit after the Seahawks/Packers game.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

Oden said:


> Only to weigh in as a sometimes consumer
> I'd rather mail ur check to you just like I pay every bill
> Really.


Well then it's safe to say, that you *would not sign a contract*, with me, that states: "payment upon completion"? Therefore, you and I would not be doing business together.



Oden said:


> I'd rather look at the work. Read the bill. Tell the old lady 'pay this'.....


- I am willing to bet, that when you pick up your car from the auto mechanic, you pay him before he returns your keys to you?

- I am also willing to bet, that when you have that emergency plumbing problem, you pay the plumber immediately upon completion of his service?

How much time do you really need to look at the painters bill? And to be honest, I give the customer a detailed contract, long before the work commences, so there is no need to spend more than a few minutes looking at the final bill, if I even submit one, (the contract should suffice) IMO.

I am proud to say, as a 1 man operation, after I bust my hump for 5, 10 days on a project, I want my money. And not one person on PT, regardless of their own payment policy, has swayed me to change my values, regarding my payment policy, and how I do business. 

If you don't like what the contract states, don't sign it - it's that simple.

Let me just clear the air, if a customer wants me to come back another day and time to get paid, I DO NOT make an issue of it with them. I grin & bear the situation and deal with them like a professional. But in most cases, the check is there like clockwork.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

RH said:


> A new brush fresh out of it's cover makes me tear up every time.


Ox-hair and badger, yes, but I'm more detached about polyester and nylon.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Gough said:


> Ox-hair and badger, yes, but I'm more detached about polyester and nylon.



It's been awhile since I bought a good ox-hair brush. First thing I would always do is take it out of the sleeve and run it across the palm of my hand, then across my cheek. There's something about the softness of a good natural brush.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> It's been awhile since I bought a good ox-hair brush. First thing I would always do is take it out of the sleeve and run it across the palm of my hand, then across my cheek. There's something about the softness of a good natural brush.


Now you're scaring me...since that's exactly what I do.

We may be oversharing here, Schmidt.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Gough said:


> Now you're scaring me...since that's exactly what I do.
> 
> 
> 
> We may be oversharing here, Schmidt.



It's just a natural thing to do. Heck, my daughters when they were little would always grab a new brush of mine and do the same thing.


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> It's just a natural thing to do. Heck, my daughters when they were little would always grab a new brush of mine and do the same thing.


I agree, but not because I do this myself......


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## MikeL (Jan 5, 2015)

I didn’t have a check yet as I prefer to make final payment after my final inspection – after clean up & I get paid tomorrow 

Sounds to me like your customer was just buying a little time. This inconvenience would irk me as well, but as others and yourself have said, just keep it professional. I too, am a one man show, so it's good to vent to others that understand your frustration.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Some of us, as Oden mentioned, are regularly working a full two weeks before we see any compensation.

I mean, if I were working paycheck to paycheck, I would certainly understand the propensity to come off like this…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMHmQIgRrp4


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

CApainter said:


> Some of us, as Oden mentioned, are regularly working a full two weeks before we see any compensation.
> 
> I mean, if I were working paycheck to paycheck, I would certainly understand the propensity to come off like this…
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMHmQIgRrp4


Once a month for me.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

What about paint possibly bleeding through tarps onto floor? Final inspection is after all equipment has been removed and everything is cleaned up.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

CApainter said:


> Some of us, as Oden mentioned, are regularly working a full two weeks before we see any compensation.


You are in a completely different league my friend than a businessman.
No overhead, no marketing, no free estimates, no worries, just go to work and come home. I've been there.

Nothing like a dependable union shop, paying you faithfully on payday. I've been there and never complained about payment. The good thing about your situation is, you know your check will be there as promised on payday. Plus the fact that your employer has a proven track record of paying you on payday, on time and for months, maybe years. 

When I am dealing business with a new customer, they don't have that proven track record, of paying every 2 weeks, like you have with your employer. So me personally, I worry a little about that final payment with new customers, to a degree. So for me, it's not an issue needing the money or living paycheck to paycheck. I don't want my money in the street. I want piece-of-mind, knowing my earnings are in my bank. 

And here is thing with employment; if your employer decides not to pay you your 2 weeks pay, you can file a complainant with The Department of Labor, and I assure you, you will get results. Or you can call the union. 

On the other hand, a contractor has to take the matter to court. And just because a client owes you money, it doesn't mean you are going to collect if you enter a judgement against them.


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## MSJ Painting (Jan 27, 2013)

PaintersUnite said:


> It would be ridiculous to sue anyone because the payment was a day or 2 late. Belly laughs, RH. To me, it's about the inconvenience of driving back to the home (30 min drive up, 30 min drive back) to get paid.
> 
> Question: how many people drive off from the auto shop, without paying the mechanic the final bill first?
> 
> ...


I do. I get invoiced for auto work, and mail the check in. Because i have been doing business with the same company for years.

Just tell the guy to stick a check in the mail, and save yourself the half hour 1 way trip. Jeez...all this over 1200 bucks. Lmfao


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

MSJ Painting said:


> I do. I get invoiced for auto work, and mail the check in. Because i have been doing business with the same company for years.
> 
> Just tell the guy to stick a check in the mail, and save yourself the half hour 1 way trip. Jeez...all this over 1200 bucks. Lmfao


Funny, we do that with our mechanics...and our plumbers, our electricians....


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

Gough said:


> Funny, we do that with our mechanics...and our plumbers, our electricians....


Your special Gough, we all know. 
Geezzz, but what about the other 320,000,001 less fortunate people in the US? 

Sorry if my numbers are not up to date. Google it. :jester:


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

PaintersUnite said:


> Your special Gough, we all know.
> Geezzz, but what about the other 320,000,001 less fortunate people in the US?
> 
> Sorry if my numbers are not up to date. Google it. :jester:


....


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## Painter-Aaron (Jan 17, 2013)

What strikes me as odd, is that Painters Unite has enough money to go away on vacation for a year, but if a customer cancels on him he has to sue them to make the money he should have made, and he needs the money ASAP

I do understand the ease of collecting it not he spot, and not wanting to drive half hr away. i wouldn't want to either. But they can always mail it no problem,.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

Painter-Aaron said:


> What strikes me as odd, is that Painters Unite has enough money to go away on vacation for a year,* but if a customer cancels on him he has to sue them to make the money he should have made*, and he needs the money ASAP
> 
> I do understand the ease of collecting it not he spot, and not wanting to drive half hr away. i wouldn't want to either. But they can always mail it no problem,.


I never sued a client for breach of contract. But it is going to happen, I promise. :whistling2:


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

TJ Paint said:


> ....


Oh, TJ,


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

TJ Paint said:


> ....


Oh, TJ, give me my cash. I don't want no funny business!


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## Repaintpro (Oct 2, 2012)

The problem is you don't necessarily have one customer owing $1200 dollars. 

You could have 5-10 clients totaling $10's or thousands that all have invoices sitting on a desk at home. 

I have done many "painting emergencies" and when it comes to paying the bill the HO leaves it for weeks and until I reconcile accounts and find it still has not been deposited, then to ring them and have the "oh sorry I forgot, I'll get around to it"

Collection of money is a PITA!


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## Brian C (Oct 8, 2011)

It seems that you guys in the states still get paid by cheque. Down here we get internet bank deposit into our accounts.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

Repaintpro said:


> The problem is you don't necessarily have one customer owing $1200 dollars.
> 
> You could have 5-10 clients totaling $10's or thousands that all have invoices sitting on a desk at home.
> 
> ...


*Thanks for being real!*

8 Things Never to Say to a Contractor

6. “You’ll have the check tomorrow.” The contractors we talked to said this is the number one thing they hear, and the promise is rarely acted upon. Fanuka says he’s even known clients to intentionally not sign checks to buy themselves a few extra days. When you tell your contractor when you’ll pay them, be true to your word.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Hey Joe, who do you want to win the Super Bowl?


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## cardwizzard (Sep 13, 2010)

PaintersUnite said:


> *Thanks for being real!*
> 
> 8 Things Never to Say to a Contractor
> 
> 6. “You’ll have the check tomorrow.” The contractors we talked to said this is the number one thing they hear, and the promise is rarely acted upon. Fanuka says he’s even known clients to intentionally not sign checks to buy themselves a few extra days. When you tell your contractor when you’ll pay them, be true to your word.


Have a look at number 8 on that list.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

PaintersUnite said:


> Your special Gough, we all know.
> Geezzz, but what about the other 320,000,001 less fortunate people in the US?
> 
> Sorry if my numbers are not up to date. Google it. :jester:


make that 320,000,000 because I pay all my bills the same way, the mechanic, plumber, etc get a check in the mail


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## Repaintpro (Oct 2, 2012)

chrisn said:


> make that 320,000,000 because I pay all my bills the same way, the mechanic, plumber, etc get a check in the mail



But when you post it is the question...........do you send it that night?, the next day? How do restaurants feel if you present a cheque or say you will post it out when you sure you dont have food poisoning?


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Glad you got paid, glad it all worked out in the end, nice to hear you got a hug. Happy ending.

I can understand the frustration to a point. I have a few customers who I consider to be really really nice people and great to work for, however when it comes time to pay it always seems like they forget about you for a while. One woman who I've pretty much painted her entire house at this point, always makes me wait for about two weeks until I send her a gentle reminder email. At that point the cheque gets hand delivered to my door the next day.

On the other hand I have customers who send me a text while I'm painting their house to just drop by their office on my way home from work with the invoice and I'll get a cheque before they've even seen the completed work.

I think people were just giving you the gears over what appeared to be something most of us have all gone through hundreds of times and we all knew it was going to turn out fine in the end.

Believe me, my wife has heard me grumble and b!tch all the time over not getting paid when I thought I was going to. Hell, at this point I haven't had a cheque come in for over a month and I've got close to $8k sitting out there. I'm whining about that to my dogs as my wife is getting tired of hearing it.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Glad you got paid, glad it all worked out in the end, nice to hear you got a hug. Happy ending.
> 
> I can understand the frustration to a point. I have a few customers who I consider to be really really nice people and great to work for, however when it comes time to pay it always seems like they forget about you for a while. One woman who I've pretty much painted her entire house at this point, always makes me wait for about two weeks until I send her a gentle reminder email. At that point the cheque gets hand delivered to my door the next day.
> 
> ...


dogs are better at LOOKING interested & sympathetic.

they're just smelling food on you


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

daArch said:


> dogs are better at LOOKING interested & sympathetic.
> 
> they're just smelling food on you


Definitely one of the benefits of being the guy putting the fud in the bowl and the one with the opposing digit that allows the door to be opened at poop time.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I don't think this thread was as much about getting paid, as it was about interpreting a contract before assuming someone had breached it. It was my opinion that this particular contract allowed for completion before the customer was obligated to to pay. I didn't believe the job was in a state of completion according to painter unite's description of it.


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## matt19422 (Oct 2, 2009)

CApainter said:


> I don't think this thread was as much about getting paid, as it was about interpreting a contract before assuming someone had breached it. It was my opinion that this particular contract allowed for completion before the customer was obligated to to pay. I didn't believe the job was in a state of completion according to painter unite's description of it.


It also paints a good picture of how some handle business interactions with their customers.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

matt19422 said:


> It also paints a good picture of how some handle business interactions with their customers.


As a customer, I would question my choice of contractor if they insisted I pay them before having a chance to inspect the work and determine that the job was completed to my satisfaction in terms of quality and no damage, or before construction related housecleaning was completed.


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## matt19422 (Oct 2, 2009)

CApainter said:


> As a customer, I would question my choice of contractor if they insisted I pay them before having a chance to inspect the work and determine that the job was completed to my satisfaction in terms of quality and no damage, or before construction related housecleaning was completed.


True CApainter...

Residential Painting is all about customer service, the painting part is normally a no brainer...

however if you lack basic people skills, you can make your life & work a lot more difficult for everyone.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

matt19422 said:


> Residential Painting is a service, the painting part is normally a no brainer...
> 
> however if you lack basic people skills, you can make your life & work a lot more difficult for everyone.



Very true. 

I am currently attending classes that address managing trades in an industrial and business setting. Bottom line, it's about the people and not how smart we are as tradesmen. 

Painting is a service, period. We are here to accommodate our clients needs. It is not the clients obligation to pacify the sensibilities of a painting contractor so that he or she can be secure in their business or technical prowess.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

As much as I appreciate long term customers who know and trust me, I do get a little bit of an "odd" feeling when they pay me without looking at the work, "Oh I trust you". 
I don't know, it's a comment just begging to be jinxed.

On the flip side of the coin, the age old customer who has to shine the halogen "light of shame" at a 15° angle and pick up every little material defect, "Oh, can you get your colors and work your magic where the printer didn't print this element?"  - and once you show off your talents, they want EVERY defect fixed.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

CApainter said:


> Very true.
> 
> I am currently attending classes that address managing trades in an industrial and business setting. Bottom line, it's about the people and not how smart we are as tradesmen.
> 
> Painting is a service, period. We are here to accommodate our clients needs. It is not the clients obligation to pacify the sensibilities of a painting contractor so that he or she can be secure in their business or technical prowess.


Probably the best training I ever had for the people part of this business came from being an elementary school teacher all those years. And I KNOW it was the best training I could have had for being a moderator on PT. :whistling2:


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

RH said:


> Probably the best training I ever had for the people part of this business came from being an elementary school teacher all those years. And I KNOW it was the best training I could have had for being a moderator on PT. :whistling2:


I know you are but what am I?!!!!! :tt2::tt2::tt2:


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

schmidt & co. said:


> i know you are but what am i?!!!!! :tt2::tt2::tt2:


see!!!


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

RH said:


> see!!!


nyah nyah, I have my eyes closed, I can't see you 

and now I can't hear you
*
LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA *


but I know you're here 'cause I can smell you


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

You guys just keep it up and you'll be getting a visit from my class assistant, Sister Mary "Knuckles" Kathleen.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

RH said:


> You guys just keep it up and you'll be getting a visit from my class assistant, Sister Mary "Knuckles" Kathleen.


yah yah, I gotz yo nuckles right HEAH, mister sister


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

It's funny how you guys make so many assumptions on something that has missing pieces of the puzzle. 

Here is a little more detail:


I worked the whole job and never saw her son for the duration of the job, as he doesn't live there.
on thurs, Jan 22, his mother told me her son was coming over that evening. I told her the painting in the 2 rooms is done, I will be back in the morning to clean up. I stated to her, when I was leaving that day, "tell your son the painting is done and I will be back tomorrow to clean up". Please ask him if he can leave the final payment with you? Explain to me what is wrong with asking to be paid on the day of completion?
Then her son and I "that night" ironed out the payment details via email and here are the correspondences: And I was nothing but respectful. 


 1st - Customer: I didn’t have a check yet as I prefer to make final payment after my final inspection – after clean up & I get paid tomorrow – So I’ll have a check made up tomorrow for $1200.00 & I’ll stop after work tomorrow to do final inspection & you can either pick up check then around 4PM or Sat.


2nd - Me: OK, I will meet you tomorrow to get paid. Name the time, and I will see you then.
3rd - Customer I can be there approx. 4PM – I get done work at 3:30 & will shoot right over – see you then. Thanks
4th - Me: I just called you. Please tell your mom, that I won't be there until 2:30 pm to clean up. Thanks
Then the customer came home and paid me. The client had an excellent business experience with me. 

So Matt, here is how some handle business interactions with their customers. *Your assumptions are way off. *Sure, I b!tched here on PT*. *But it's unfair to assume it went any further that this forum. BTW - Didn't Idahoe Painter complain about the unfair assumptions on PT, and he hasn't been back here since then* - *correct?*

And CA, I never asked to be paid before clean up. Why do you keep stating that? *My whole thing here is, I don't ever want to be forced to double back to a jobsite, *on the same day* to get paid, if the job is 30 mins from my location. That is a waste of my time, gas and wear & tear on the Van. And I use language on my contract, so that payment is understood by the client, to prevent any inconvenience as such.
__________________


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

CApainter said:


> As a customer, I would question my choice of contractor if they insisted I pay them before having a chance to inspect the work and determine that the job was completed to my satisfaction in terms of quality and no damage, or before construction related housecleaning was completed.


CA, I'm with you about not asking the client to leave a check for us *before* he's had a chance to inspect the work. According to original post, that what happened.


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

PaintersUnite what does your contract say about late payment, past due, late fees ?


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## matt19422 (Oct 2, 2009)

Gough said:


> CA, I'm with you about not asking the client to leave a check for us *before* he's had a chance to inspect the work. According to original post, that what happened.


Yup, same for us, unless I've done multiple jobs for them and they trust me


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

Gough said:


> CA, I'm with you about not asking the client to leave a check for us *before* he's had a chance to inspect the work. According to original post, that what happened.


The OP wasn't detailed, and you assumed. The mother was fully capable of inspecting the job. And if that was a problem for him, he could have met me out at the jobsite on my time and in accordance to the contract he signed. 

Post *117* is the full story. And the client was extremely happy.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

CApainter said:


> As a customer, I would question my choice of contractor if they insisted I pay them before having a chance to inspect the work and determine that the job was completed to my satisfaction in terms of quality and no damage, or before construction related housecleaning was completed.


This raises another point and it goes back to the adage, "the flow of command follows the flow of money". The person who pays for the job is the person who inspects it. You take a risk when you assume otherwise.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

That's fine Gough, *come out and inspect, I want you to.* "At the end of business" which would have been at *9:30 am* after clean up, not "4pm, or the next day or by mail". However, I was trying to save the guy a trip back to his mothers house that day, and having him take time off from his job to pay me. How he handled the matter, was up to him. I simply gave him the option to leave the check with his mother (No more no less). The client said he couldn't get there till 4pm. And I accommodated his request without argument. 

Mr Gough, (the ethics committee president). Apparently you have a little too much free time on your hands. And you are persistently trying to paint a negative picture of my business transaction that is not accurate.


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

I'm not sure why, but I'm still taking a peek at this thread.


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## Painter-Aaron (Jan 17, 2013)

If a you had to do is clean up and it's a fair distance away why didn't you stay a bit late and clean up to save you a trip?


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

Painter-Aaron said:


> If a you had to do is clean up and it's a fair distance away why didn't you stay a bit late and clean up to save you a trip?


Finally someone asks the obvious question. :thumbsup:


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

Painter-Aaron said:


> If a you had to do is clean up and it's a fair distance away why didn't you stay a bit late and clean up to save you a trip?


I left at 5pm on Thurs, and had an estimate planned for 7 pm that night.
I also figured I would start fresh in the morning, with daylight to see better.
My 53 year old eyes ain't like they used to be. (Yes, I have work lights).


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

"which would have been at 9:30 am after clean up, not "4pm, or the next day or by mail". However, I was trying to save the guy a trip back to his mothers house that day, and *having him take time off from his job to pay me*

really .... wow i would NEVER expect a customer to be home or "take off work" because i was finished at 9:30 am just to pay me  or ask him to take off any other time

i too expect to be paid at end of job but don't demand *instant *payment if i need to meet the HO at another time like later that day when they get off or that weekend when they are home then that's what we do

Beside not being a pita to the HO it gives me the chance to walk the job with them and answer any questions, let them know about our other services like cabinet painting, pressure washing & give me the chance to hand them a handful of biz cards and THANK them for using us and you'll be surprised how much that face to face time with them help my biz.

They are relaxed and they see that we're a solid company here to help them with there painting projects .... this is not fast food where it wam - bam - slam painting now pay me i gotta go :whistling2:

but again if it work for you go for it ...


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## jacobs (Mar 18, 2012)

I don't mind waiting a short time if the situation calls for it , like their schedule conflicts or something, what I don't like is when the customer acts like they have the right to hold back payment "until it's gotten a final inspection" to me that says that they don't trust me. I figure that when I'm done I should be paid and if there is a reasonable issue I will certainly come back, I'm in business and not going anywhere and they treat me like they found me on Craigslist or like their my parent teaching me a lesson, yet I just did thousands of dollars worth of work and trusted them.


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## jacobs (Mar 18, 2012)

By the way I didn't mean to imply that a normal end of the job inspection was inappropriate, only sometimes it's irritating


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Post error.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

Repaint Florida said:


> "which would have been at 9:30 am after clean up, not "4pm, or the next day or by mail". However, I was trying to save the guy a trip back to his mothers house that day, and *having him take time off from his job to pay me*
> 
> really .... wow i would NEVER expect a customer to be home or "take off work" because i was finished at 9:30 am just to pay me  or ask him to take off any other time
> 
> i too expect to be paid at end of job but don't *demand instant payment*


Florida, I don't demand * instant payment. *Again, you are amusing like all the others and judging and implying what your mind has created. 

When it comes time for payment, I causally mention to them that I will be done by a specific date and time. 99.99% of the time, the client *volunteers* to meet me at the completion date and time. Yes, this works for me. I have a good _*Rapport*_ with my clients.

As a matter of fact, I gave this client $500 worth of extras (free of charge), because he didn't have a ton of money and was only trying to fix his mothers house up to sell.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PaintersUnite said:


> That's fine Gough, *come out and inspect, I want you to.* "At the end of business" which would have been at *9:30 am* after clean up, not "4pm, or the next day or by mail". However, I was trying to save the guy a trip back to his mothers house that day, and having him take time off from his job to pay me. How he handled the matter, was up to him. I simply gave him the option to leave the check with his mother (No more no less). The client said he couldn't get there till 4pm. And I accommodated his request without argument.
> 
> Mr Gough, (the ethics committee president). Apparently you have a little too much free time on your hands. And you are persistently trying to paint a negative picture of my business transaction that is not accurate.


I think it's a little unfair to begrudge a particular individual for simply using public information as a general learning example in a discussion that addresses the best practices as it relates to account receivables. I've yet to see anyone offer anything other than constructive feedback.


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## jacobs (Mar 18, 2012)

I just re read your original post and have figured it out, the guy doesn't want to pay you until he gets his paycheck and he is being a prick about you leaving your stuff there instead of you having just stayed a little longer to clean up. It's comparable to when I arrive late three days in a row or Strech out the job, or whatever I do that gives the customer some impression that I'm not a young ultra professional ex celebrating to serve them, what then happens is when it comes time for them to pay me the shoe is now on the other foot. They pay me, but THEY now string me along just a slight bit, I can hear him thinking to himself "oh he didn't want to stay a few minutes and clean up, well I just don't feel like doing a walk through till tomorrow"


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Repaintpro said:


> But when you post it is the question...........do you send it that night?, the next day? How do restaurants feel if you present a cheque or say you will post it out when you sure you dont have food poisoning?


next day usually


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

CApainter said:


> I think it's a little unfair to begrudge a particular individual for simply using public information as a general learning example in a discussion that addresses the best practices as it relates to account receivables. I've yet to see anyone offer anything other than constructive feedback.


I think you are talking to a brick wall:whistling2:


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

*DAY OF COMPLETION:*
was when your finished ... leaving drops & thing does nothing for the HO
they still have your stuff in their home, can't use the room and have to have you back in their home

sorry not trying to get into a pzzing match with you and you've help fast a contract is a contract but it goes both ways ... you where not finished

add to your contract "when painting is finished & before clean up payment is due, take off work, leave check with someone BUT pay me"

you didn't mind making another trip to clean up

BTW again ... what does you contract say about late payment ?

this seems to be the focus of your post following contract to the letter


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

jacobs said:


> I just re read your original post and have figured it out, the guy doesn't want to pay you until he gets his paycheck and he is being a prick about you leaving your stuff there instead of you having just stayed a little longer to clean up. It's comparable to when I arrive late three days in a row or Strech out the job, or whatever I do that gives the customer some impression that I'm not a young ultra professional ex celebrating to serve them, what then happens is when it comes time for them to pay me the shoe is now on the other foot. They pay me, but THEY now string me along just a slight bit, I can hear him thinking to himself "oh he didn't want to stay a few minutes and clean up, well I just don't feel like doing a walk through till tomorrow"


From painterunite's accounting of homeowner satisfaction, it appears everyone was happy with the work. There wasn't any mention of animosity between the homeowners or himself. I don't think that was the issue.

The discussion developed into best practices when painters unite presented the suggestion that the homeowner failed to obey the conditions of the signed contract. There seems to be some disagreement with the perimeters of "complete". Which, the contract clearly states that full payment would be met upon.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

CApainter said:


> I think it's a little unfair to begrudge a particular individual for simply using public information as a general *learning example* in a discussion that addresses the best practices as it relates to account receivables. I've yet to see anyone offer anything other than constructive feedback.


CA thanks for your post, however, I have not learned anything from this tread in the form of help. The only thing that I have learned, is that people are very judgmental, and quick to come to inaccurate conclusions, based on their understanding of partial information and circumstances.

I have been in business for over 25 years, and I am fully capable of making intelligent business choices and decisions with regards for complete customer satisfaction. If you met me, knew me, were on my jobs, talked to my clients, you would agree. And I even believe that most on PT would be impressed!

On Monday, it will be business as usual. 

Thanks for your help making my tread *post of the month*. Maybe you can consider nominating me for PPOTQ?


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Gough said:


> CA, I'm with you about not asking the client to leave a check for us *before* he's had a chance to inspect the work. According to original post, that what happened.


For clarification, according to the OP, the owner's opportunity to inspect was before the OP picked up drops, cleaned up, and loaded out. 

With all due respect, that seems a little like buying a pig in a poke.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PaintersUnite said:


> Thanks for your help making my tread *post of the month*. Maybe you can consider nominating me for PPOTQ?


You never know


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## Brian C (Oct 8, 2011)

What about if you had a tradesman work on your house ? Wouldn't you want time to look over his work by yourself without him pressing you for instant payment ?


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

So are you going on that year long sabbatical to Jamaica?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

TJ Paint said:


> So are you going on that year long sabbatical to Jamaica?


It was the Bahamas, I think. And I do believe paintersunite was stretching the possibility of that just a little bit in order to make a point.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

For some reason when I read this thread, this picture comes to mind


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Even if it was, what would the internet be like without the human drama?


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

Repaint Florida said:


> *DAY OF COMPLETION:*
> was when your finished ... leaving drops & thing does nothing for the HO
> they still have your stuff in their home, can't use the room and have to have you back in their home
> 
> ...


Jeff, you are really over thinking and analyzing a situation where you were not present to witness for yourself. It's kind of silly.

I never said payment was due. I simply told the mother I was done painting and would be back tomorrow to clean up. And since her son was coming later that evening, I kindly asked her to see if he would leave payment with her (to pay me after clean up). He said, "I prefer to inspect after you clean up". I said fine, see you at 4pm. I didn't make it an issue out of it with the client. It's really that simple. 

Between me, you and my cat, I was just irritated, because I didn't want to drive back out there at 4pm on Friday or Sat. So this thread was really a rant.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

daArch said:


> For some reason when I read this thread, this picture comes to mind


So you are saying that I am baiting these guys? haha. Not really.

Actually, it's the opposite. All the assumptions implied by PT members, towards my business practices, really got under my skin. So I will just not share my personal info here again. These guys here are like _piranhas_.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

This horse has been dead for some time now. This is a good time to bury it.


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