# Bad drywallers, what to do.



## PainterLady (Jul 17, 2008)

I recently started up a painting business doing mostly new home construction. I have been painting for years and am a perfectionist, I want things to be perfect when I am done as I am trying to build up a good reputation in my relatively small town.

I've been having trouble with drywallers lately. They haven't been doing a very good job mudding and sanding and it shows. I have been fixing a lot of the problems myself (which I don't think is my job) or the drywallers have been trying to fix the problems (usually crappily), and it's starting to become a major concern. I don't mind fixing the odd ding but when butt joints need to be completely redone I don't think that should be my problem. This guy claims he didn't know it was painted and thought it was primer

My GC seems to think that more coats of paint are going to hide the problems and that "a good tradesman fixes the previous trades problems" I've painted some walls 7 times and you could still see the problem.

I'm using Pittsburg paint which I think is great paint. I've used a lot of other kinds BM, SW, Cloverdale etc... and I really think this is the best paint I have ever used.

So what do you guys do? Is this normal? I just finished a basement with one coat of primer and two top coats and it looked pretty good but not perfect. Drywaller comes back (not called back just did) and decided to "fix" a few areas. Now I have to fix his fixes and after that repaint the entire basement. This guy claims he didn't know it was painted and thought it was primer! He then asked me if I was sure it was an eggshell paint! I want to back charge him but doubt I will get paid.

I painted part of another house with a pearl finish and you could tell the areas that had been mudded. The drywallers response was "If I had known you were going to use pearl I would have finished it to level 5 instead of level 4"? I think he's full of it.

Although I am new at owning a business I have been painting for years, I know what I am doing when it comes to painting but not dealing with other trades. 

Any advice would be appreciated.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

We get the GC to make the drywall guys come back and fix it. When the GC says it is fixed, we paint. If you are willing to absorb other trades shortcomings, your builders will love you and you will be out of business much sooner.


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## timhag (Sep 30, 2007)

PainterLady said:


> My GC seems to think that more coats of paint are going to hide the problems and that "a good tradesman fixes the previous trades problems" .


This is your problem. Get away from this guy as soon as you can.......RUN FAST.


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## tsunamicontract (May 3, 2008)

> I want to back charge him but doubt I will get paid.


also a major problem. You have to back charge for this stuff. If you feel like you wont get paid you should not be working for that GC.


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

Thank you for reminding me why I won't touch new construction.

If you are truly a perfectionist, aim for the residential repaint market instead of new construction.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

There is a philosophy that you charge enough so that you can take care of previous work w/o it hurting your bottom line. You fix it, you don' say nuthin, and you get re-hired by the GC because you don' make no trouble. If the GC bites your bid, this ain' a bad way to do business. It's not the way i do business, but I know who does (not on this forum).

And then there are the PDCA standards. Something written that everyone can use as guidelines. THE standards of the industry. In your proposal you quote the appropriate standard that you will follow, when your (low yet reasonable) bid is accepted and the condition of the walls are not up to the level that you specify, you have a signed document allowing you to charge up the yooohoo.

that's the route I would suggest.


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## michfan (Jul 6, 2008)

When we used to do some new construction we would include a little time in the bid for repairing and "pointing out" bad sheetrock areas. By "pointing out" I mean we would prime the walls and then go around with a pencil and mark all the areas that we knew were a problem. The sheetrocker would then come back and fix those areas. Our contract also clearly stated that we would do "minor" patching. This meant an hour or so of normal touch up patching. If it was more than that it was a huge backcharge per manhour we spent fixing the sheetrock. The problem is that a lot of ppl have a misconstrued perception that by adding more coats of paint you can hide the bad sheetrock. A good sheetrocker is hard to come by these days. Most of them have no clue what is good work and what is not. Maybe because they have never painted over their own crappy work before!...I know one thing. It is not worth losing money over. We have been down that bridge before. If your GC does not understand your points and complaints and is not willing to either backcharge his sheetrockers for poor quality or find new sheetrockers, then your best bet is to look elsewhere. You will get burnt before you know it!


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## crow (Jan 29, 2008)

this should of been dealt with before doing anything, now that youve went ahead and just fixed it, now its expected as the usual thing, so, now youll be the bad guy for complainin bout it after wards. if its new const. Id be very clear that I paint. not fix your half wit hung over mudders mistakes, but if I do take on fixin the other guys crap, I charge seperate, and man do I charge!


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## tsunamicontract (May 3, 2008)

I feel that if you walk around with the GC, show him what is going on, explain to him how much it will cost next time you have to deal with stuff like that, next time back charge him, he will get the idea (if he is any good) and will make sure his rockers are getting it right so it stops costing him money. Once it starts coming out of his pocket, he will take notice.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

I have had this problem allot as well. One thing I would do is have the gc sign off before you paint. The gc believes if you covered it you, bought it. Showing the gc prior to you painting and adviceing him that you will be backcharge him if this is not taken care of prior to you painting. Your 1st mistake is fixing it for them. I know you are just going the extra mile but belive me they will start to take advantage of that. Let them know you are not a drywaller and you didnt bid the job to paint and then repaint it again due to their drywallers poor craftmanship. Also by bringing your paint rep to advice the gc helps to. For some reason gc like it when you bring more perfesionals on the job.

After all why should any one pay for anybodys bad work.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

tsunamicontract said:


> I feel that if you walk around with the GC, show him what is going on, explain to him how much it will cost next time you have to deal with stuff like that, next time back charge him, he will get the idea (if he is any good) and will make sure his rockers are getting it right so it stops costing him money. Once it starts coming out of his pocket, he will take notice.


Even when the drywallers do a "good" job, the bar is still not set too high. If their tape, mud and sanding are adequate, we are still cleaning up after them. That right there is a trade that needs to be held more accountable. The GC just doenst want to have to deal with getting them to come back. It wont cost him anything, just the hassle of making the phone call. We all know that the GC doesnt have to pay the drywall company until he is happy with the product, so lets get them back in for another shot. Usually the GC just prefers that we take care of it because we are there and he doenst want to lose time. And because we want to keep our work moving he thinks we might just throw it in for free.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Thank you for reminding me why I won't touch new construction.

If you are truly a perfectionist, aim for the residential repaint market instead of new construction.


Especially if you need to apply *7* coats. I don't think I have ever put 7 coats of paint on anything.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

Let me jump in here while you guys are still hot ( call me "asking for it" :whistling2 
Yeah we leave the place a mess, kinda just like we got it. My policy is, I leave the floor like I found it, in other words, if I have to clean up after the elec, plumbers, framers, etc, then I Assume, thats the way the GC expects it, and I tell him so, In other words, if he wants me to leave it clean, then I expect to find it clean. Haveing said that, I still scrape and sweep, and clean the mud out of the boxes, and thats part of my NOT cleaning up routine.

About bad finishing work, Yeah theres alot of that going on today. Jobs that used to take three weeks are done in 10 days or less, if we can;t do it on that schedule, the mexicans can. I don't have anything against mexicans, but they have changed the drywall bussiness, in this area more so than price.

Drywallers expect you to prime, and then they come back around and "point up" anything that needs it. Thats how it works, wishing it worked differantly, won't help the problem. When we done sanding there is dust filling up all the scratches and pits, can't see em, when you prime it blows the dust out of the scratches and presto, there them little devils are.If you can "see" a butt joint after its painted, then its not finished right, needs mo mud, thats not your fault and 50 coats of paint won't fix it. 

HOWEVER (here comes the wrath) if your going to use eggshell and you DON"T back-roll your primer, your BEGGING for joint problems, this very reason is how and why I got into the painting end of it, in other words, when asked why the joints are showing under eggshell, my standard answer is, he didn't back roll the prime coat, let me paint your next one, and I'll show what I mean. Most painters say "I don't have to back roll the prime coat, I get fine coverage by just spraying" Its not about coverage, back rolling with give the paper and the joint the same texture, and it will "melt" or "drink-up" the dust on the wall, the TWO prime reasons that joints show up under eggshell.

I think that the biggest problem between painters and drywallwers, is just lack of communication, talk to your drywallers, they will either reach an understanding of what you need and let you know what you can and can't expect, or heck, their just jerks.:notworthy:


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## IHATE_HOMEDEPOT (May 27, 2008)

*Painters fix all eff ups*

Sometimes I feel more like a make-up artist than a painter. Sub standard drywall, crappy wood joints, you know how the carpet guys scratch the sh** out of all the good work. If your goal is to always have your work look good, it is a challenge, but it could very well be your best selling point. One thing I do before I bid new work anymore is ask to check the other subs work from previous jobs. Having said that, 1 rule I will employ at times is to not volunteer information, aka zippa the lippa. I have sight like a lemur ,best at night.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

The issue at hand has to do with prior trades - those whose work our own depends on. So lets back the process up a step. Lets put ourselves in the drywallers shoes for a minute. We come in to hang the drywall and find that the framers have built corners that are quite out of square, more than we can compensate for with mud. Also, the walls are out of plumb and the windows have not been installed properly to flush out with our hung walls. Also, there is missing insulation in many places. 

Do we break out our carpentry gear and fix their work so that we can do our jobs? 

The drywaller should not have to do other peoples work. The painter should not have to do the drywallers work. The taper should not have to come back in after primer or paint to fix things. The problem with the drywall industry is that there are no generally accepted standards and, at least in my area, they work way too cheap to do a good job. There is a lesson in there for us all.


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## tsunamicontract (May 3, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> The issue at hand has to do with prior trades - those whose work our own depends on. So lets back the process up a step. Lets put ourselves in the drywallers shoes for a minute. We come in to hang the drywall and find that the framers have built corners that are quite out of square, more than we can compensate for with mud. Also, the walls are out of plumb and the windows have not been installed properly to flush out with our hung walls. Also, there is missing insulation in many places.
> 
> Do we break out our carpentry gear and fix their work so that we can do our jobs?
> 
> The drywaller should not have to do other peoples work. The painter should not have to do the drywallers work. The taper should not have to come back in after primer or paint to fix things. The problem with the drywall industry is that there are no generally accepted standards and, at least in my area, they work way too cheap to do a good job. There is a lesson in there for us all.


Another one of your best posts Scott. hard to argue with that logic.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> The issue at hand has to do with prior trades - those whose work our own depends on. So lets back the process up a step. Lets put ourselves in the drywallers shoes for a minute. We come in to hang the drywall and find that the framers have built corners that are quite out of square, more than we can compensate for with mud. Also, the walls are out of plumb and the windows have not been installed properly to flush out with our hung walls. Also, there is missing insulation in many places.
> 
> Do we break out our carpentry gear and fix their work so that we can do our jobs?
> 
> The drywaller should not have to do other peoples work. The painter should not have to do the drywallers work. The taper should not have to come back in after primer or paint to fix things. The problem with the drywall industry is that there are no generally accepted standards and, at least in my area, they work way too cheap to do a good job. There is a lesson in there for us all.


This is where a good G C or Job supervisor comes in handy!!!
I used to do a lot of large commercial work back in Ohio and there was always a supervisor on site. I guess you don't see this in new residential. Thank God I do mostly residential repaints now.


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## michfan (Jul 6, 2008)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Let me jump in here while you guys are still hot ( call me "asking for it" :whistling2
> 
> Jobs that used to take three weeks are done in 10 days or less, if we can;t do it on that schedule, the mexicans can. I don't have anything against mexicans, but they have changed the drywall bussiness, in this area more so than price.
> 
> I think that the biggest problem between painters and drywallwers, is just lack of communication, talk to your drywallers, they will either reach an understanding of what you need and let you know what you can and can't expect, or heck, their just jerks.:notworthy:


 
I agree with the fact mexicans have changed the drywall business. I don't think in the last five years I have worked on a new construction job where the sheetrockers were NOT mexicans!...As for the communication, I am not going to go out and learn spanish just so I can talk with the sheetrockers either! :no:


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Around here they come from Canada...

"Throw me down da stairs my keys..."


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## PainterLady (Jul 17, 2008)

First of all, thanks for all of the replies. What you guys are saying is what I kind of figured, but since I am new to this business I wanted to ask.



tsunamicontract said:


> also a major problem. You have to back charge for this stuff. If you feel like you wont get paid you should not be working for that GC.


I should have been more clear on this. This job wasn't through my normal GC. I painted the upstairs of the house and the home owner decided to hire a framer, drywaller, and painter to do the basement. I don't want to back charge the home owner because he lives about 4 doors down from me and it really wasn't his fault. I want to back charge the dry waller, if he won't pay I will just eat this one.



ProWallGuy said:


> Thank you for reminding me why I won't touch new construction.
> 
> If you are truly a perfectionist, aim for the residential repaint market instead of new construction.


I actually prefer doing repaints myself, that's how I started my business. The problem is (not really a problem I guess) that this small city is in the middle of the biggest boom it has ever seen. I can make twice as much money doing new construction then I can on repaints. People who want their house repainted simply aren't going to pay for what I can charge on a new house.



Capt-sheetrock said:


> HOWEVER (here comes the wrath) if your going to use eggshell and you DON"T back-roll your primer, your BEGGING for joint problems, this very reason is how and why I got into the painting end of it, in other words, when asked why the joints are showing under eggshell, my standard answer is, he didn't back roll the prime coat, let me paint your next one, and I'll show what I mean. Most painters say "I don't have to back roll the prime coat, I get fine coverage by just spraying" Its not about coverage, back rolling with give the paper and the joint the same texture, and it will "melt" or "drink-up" the dust on the wall, the TWO prime reasons that joints show up under eggshell.
> 
> quote]
> 
> ...


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## PainterLady (Jul 17, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> Around here they come from Canada...
> 
> "Throw me down da stairs my keys..."


LOL, forgot to mention I am in Canada (not french though).


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

PainterLady said:


> LOL, forgot to mention I am in Canada (not french though).


I meant no offense with that, I love Canada. 

Tim Horton! :thumbup:


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

PainterLady said:


> Can anyone provide a link or tell me what the different "levels" of drywall finishing are or is this just a bunch of BS?


Not B.S. Click right here, eh?


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## tsunamicontract (May 3, 2008)

man PWG, your on fire with these links.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

You guys are pretty nice to drywalls,,,,, whats the prob??? :blink: LOL.

Seriously tho, If you think about it,, level 5 was not an issuse until recently. I think its because of more eggshell jobs, more windows and open spaces in the house we build today. The way I see it is this,, when a level 4 is sanded, there is dust on the wall left by the sander, and there is a definate differance in texture betwee the paper on the rock and the drywall joints. If the wall is sprayed only, it "captures" the dust (you can feel it, like a fur coat on the wall) even tho you sand the wall after the prime coat, you still have "captured" the image of the differances on the wall, and our real problem is the light refraction off the wall. hence you have "imprinted" or accented the differances in the paper and the joints. When I paint, I wipe the walls with a broom to remove the dust, then back roll the primer. Just try it one time, like in a garge, do 1/2 the garage with just spraying and the other 1/2 with sweeping and back rolling. I know its a little more labor, but not much.

Level 5 does this very thing, it makes the paper and joints, the same texture and deals with the dust issiue, therefore, its either back roll or level5 to achieve the same result. 

Kinda interesting, GC's don't want to pay .80 for level 5 and painters don't want to give up .40 of their money for us doing the prime coat like explained above. Seems both want us to produce a level5 for the price of level4.

I know that in a perfect world, we would not have to deal with dust and texture issues, but heck I live in the south, and we all know that ain't perfect

Peace


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## tsunamicontract (May 3, 2008)

from the PWG link, to me it looks like a lvl 5 finish invovles skim coating everything, even the flat open parts of the sheet rock. I don't think I have ever seen this and I do paint non textured drywall from time to time.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

tsunamicontract said:


> from the PWG link, to me it looks like a lvl 5 finish invovles skim coating everything, even the flat open parts of the sheet rock. I don't think I have ever seen this and I do paint non textured drywall from time to time.


That correct, a level5 is coating the entire wall,, I use a grace mark 1V with a 631 tip for sprayplast or a 425 tip for just compound. However it can be done any number of ways, rolling it on then wipe it back off, or just pan and knife on then off again. The goal is to obtain the same texture on the wall rather than a differant texture between the paper and the joints.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Smooth ceilings sometimes get a level 5 finish on the homes I work on. It is nice.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> You guys are pretty nice to drywalls,,,,, whats the prob??? :blink: LOL.
> 
> Seriously tho, If you think about it,, level 5 was not an issuse until recently.
> 
> ...


Poor drywall work is just that, poor. All the backrolling and dusting in world won't hide poor craftsmanship.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Seriously tho, If you think about it,, level 5 was not an issuse until recently. I think its because of more eggshell jobs, more windows and open spaces in the house we build today. The way I see it is this,, when a level 4 is sanded, there is dust on the wall left by the sander, and there is a definate differance in texture betwee the paper on the rock and the drywall joints. If the wall is sprayed only, it "captures" the dust (you can feel it, like a fur coat on the wall) even tho you sand the wall after the prime coat, you still have "captured" the image of the differances on the wall, and our real problem is the light refraction off the wall. hence you have "imprinted" or accented the differances in the paper and the joints. When I paint, I wipe the walls with a broom to remove the dust, then back roll the primer. Just try it one time, like in a garge, do 1/2 the garage with just spraying and the other 1/2 with sweeping and back rolling. I know its a little more labor, but not much.


I agree that backrolling is always best. 

I also think there is more of an issue at hand than texture. The paper on the rock has a very different rate of absorption than all the mud in the joints. Joints suck in alot more primer than paper. The prime coat is intended to seal all surfaces and the paint to sit on top. Part of the problem is builders who budget for contractor grade white. You need a good base on top of the primer. I also agree that eggshell makes all problems much worse. 

Level 5 finishes are rare. If we go to that extreme, we might as well plaster. We have tried gypsum reinforced USG tuff hide which is supposed to be level 5 in a can that we can spray on. Boy is that false advertising.


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## tsunamicontract (May 3, 2008)

any one tried the new SW builders solutions for new drywall?


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## Stilts (Apr 14, 2008)

tsunamicontract said:


> any one tried the new SW builders solutions for new drywall?


I've tried it, and it seems to work pretty good. Unfortunately I don't do the big jobs anymore where I can really put it to the test, but on the smaller stuff it seems to work well.

What Capt-Sheetrock is saying is the truth though. The problems with mud telegraphing through paint is fairly new. The best explanation I've gotten for this seems to be that newer drywall paper is made of more recycled paper than before. Your mud, when properly applied actually ends up smoother than the paper itself. That along with what capt already described can make a house look horrible. I ended up getting into the painting business for the same reason that he did. Because of conflict on the job about who's fault all of the flashing mud work was.

It's easy to see too, put mud on a wall in one spot, pulled tight then sand it, when you spray it with no texture, you can usually see exactlly where the mud is. On many jobs with sheen especially slick finish jobs, we got in the habit of skimming the entire job, or spraying a coat of Hamilton's Prep Coat on the whole thing.

That being said, a bad butt joint is a totally different beast, and no amount of paint is going to fix it.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

tsunamicontract said:


> any one tried the new SW builders solutions for new drywall?


chough cough cosucksufg


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## crow (Jan 29, 2008)

a little "real lemon" juice added to water, then wipe down the walls with a sponge (dont get wild) let it dry, and prime it. it takes away all the dust, ect,ect, helps hide the visability of anything, just as good as a level 5 job,


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## tsunamicontract (May 3, 2008)

crow said:


> a little "real lemon" juice added to water, then wipe down the walls with a sponge (dont get wild) let it dry, and prime it. it takes away all the dust, ect,ect, helps hide the visability of anything, just as good as a level 5 job,


are you serious Crow?


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## Brian (Apr 10, 2007)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Drywallers expect you to prime, and then they come back around and "point up" anything that needs it. Thats how it works, wishing it worked differantly, won't help the problem. When we done sanding there is dust filling up all the scratches and pits, can't see em, when you prime it blows the dust out of the scratches and presto, there them little devils are.If you can "see" a butt joint after its painted, then its not finished right, needs mo mud, thats not your fault and 50 coats of paint won't fix it.


I don't do new construction, so maybe I'm off base.

As I understand this, the painter shows up with dust all over the walls. He is supposed to prime the walls to "remove" the dust. To me, this means that the painter didn't get a clean surface, but is supposed to "clean" it by priming. Not only will this adversely impact adhesion, it seems like passing the buck. Why don't drywallers clean the surface to remove dust, find the scratches, and fix them? 

My memory may be wrong, but I think PDCA standards call for a surface to be paint ready when the painter arrives. In new construction, the responsibility for insuring this would fall on the GC.

Brian Phillips


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## crow (Jan 29, 2008)

yea man, next time ya get round some new rock try it, I use bout cup a juice in gallon water, lightly give the joint a spounge bath, usin the spounge like a sandin pad on the but joints ect, let it dry, go with it. the low dose of acid in the juice seems to melt the imperfections away. (but we also drink dandilion root juice for aches an pains.) just diffrent ways of doing things, but it works.


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## Stilts (Apr 14, 2008)

Haven't ever tried to lemon juice part of it, but before we started using prep coat, we used to mop down the walls like you're talking about. I still do it on occasion when I am working with someone who is fairly new who oversands everything, making the paper fuzz up too much.


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## Mike's QP (Jun 12, 2008)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> You guys are pretty nice to drywalls,,,,, whats the prob??? :blink: LOL.
> 
> Seriously tho, If you think about it,, level 5 was not an issuse until recently. I think its because of more eggshell jobs, more windows and open spaces in the house we build today. The way I see it is this,, when a level 4 is sanded, there is dust on the wall left by the sander, and there is a definate differance in texture betwee the paper on the rock and the drywall joints. If the wall is sprayed only, it "captures" the dust (you can feel it, like a fur coat on the wall) even tho you sand the wall after the prime coat, you still have "captured" the image of the differances on the wall, and our real problem is the light refraction off the wall. hence you have "imprinted" or accented the differances in the paper and the joints. When I paint, I wipe the walls with a broom to remove the dust, then back roll the primer. Just try it one time, like in a garge, do 1/2 the garage with just spraying and the other 1/2 with sweeping and back rolling. I know its a little more labor, but not much.
> 
> ...


a Real drywaller should pick up his sander so he doesnt rough up the paper to catch the dust, he should also sweep his walls down before the painter gets there, it will never happen but it should, he should get a chance to get in there after the painter primes also, but alot of drywallers prime themselves so they dont need to go back in.... either way you should always back roll the primer like you said, but it depends on how much the GC is willing to pay. ive had tapers blame all the nail holes not covering and the joints showing on the new recycled paper and lightweight muds lol


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

a Real drywaller should pick up his sander so he doesnt rough up the paper 

I was always told that a REAL drywaller did not own a sander.:blink:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

And then we paperhangers get the line from some painters that they need not wipe down the surface with a damp rag (or anything) because the sprayer blows the dust off.


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

you have no idea what you are doing, quit painting immediately.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

chrisn said:


> a Real drywaller should pick up his sander so he doesnt rough up the paper
> 
> I was always told that a REAL drywaller did not own a sander.:blink:


Some roughing of the paper is inevitable, excessive roughing of the paper is a sign of poor finishing or most likely, a seperate sanding crew doing it too cheap, cromprende??? (they get hired cause they are fast and cheap) I am aware that there is alot of bad finsihers, sanders and painters out there. The only solution for poor finishing is to have the finishers come back and fix it.

Most of the problems occur because of cheap prices and unrealistic time schedules. We can finish a job and not need a sander, However, it takes over twice as long to do so. Pays the same, just takes twice as long. The funny thing is tho, we would lose that GC because it takes so long, Most GC's don't give a rats a&^ about quality, its all about time. When I take on a new GC I tell them I sell a service, I can give it to you right, or I can give it to you right now, you can't have it both ways.

The dust and rough paper problem is only a factor when primer is sprayed on and not back-rolled, so I guess this would be a good place to say "A real painter doesn't own an airless" 

About wipeing the dust off the wall, perhaps you'd like us to tape off all the doors and windows for you too??:thumbsup:However our bid is to hang finish and sand, not hang finish sand and prep the wall for the painter.When we hang finish sand and prime, we prep the wall for the primer right before we out it on.

I still feel that the biggest problem is lack of communication between crews, the industry is constantly changing, new tools, techniques and materials are always coming along. Things change, if we decide we are not going to change anymore we are on our way out.

We all have to deal with things left out, off, or incorrect by the crews in front of us.


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## PainterLady (Jul 17, 2008)

johnthepainter said:


> you have no idea what you are doing, quit painting immediately.


You refering to me?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

The dust and rough paper problem is only a factor when primer is sprayed on and not back-rolled, so I guess this would be a good place to say "A real painter doesn't own an airless" 

About wipeing the dust off the wall, perhaps you'd like us to tape off all the doors and windows for you too??:thumbsup:However our bid is to hang finish and sand, not hang finish sand and prep the wall for the painter.When we hang finish sand and prime, we prep the wall for the primer right before we out it on.[/quote]

_This is where you've got it all wrong, Cap'n. Any professional in any trade should clean up after themselves. You created the dust, you clean it. And guess what...if you cleaned it, you would see the imperfections and have a chance to fix them and save yourself a trip back. _

_When we paint windows and get paint on glass, we clean it. We dont assume that cleaning crew that comes in after us has room in their bid to clean up after us._


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> This is where you've got it all wrong, Cap'n. Any professional in any trade should clean up after themselves. You created the dust, you clean it. And guess what...if you cleaned it, you would see the imperfections and have a chance to fix them and save yourself a trip back.
> 
> When we paint windows and get paint on glass, we clean it. We dont assume that cleaning crew that comes in after us has room in their bid to clean up after us.


Scott, Scott, Scott,

Didn't you get the memo ?? I think it was sent out sometime in the 1800's, it went something like this:

Hear-ye hear-ye hear-ye. It shall be ordained from this time forth that those which apply the coating known as paint shalt verily be responsible for the cleaning up of all those who hath gone before them on any said project.

Those known as Sparkies who doth maketh the miracle of electricity shall, at their whim, leave their bits and pieces whereof ever they pleaseth, but most notably in sinks and toilets. And those who we refer to as Mudders shall filleth with dust and particles to overflow all boxes which holdeth the magic installed by the Sparkies. 

And those that runneth around with flaming torches and molten lead, shall at their discretion scorch and burn any woodwork in any location that they see fit.

The painters, whom shall be know from this day forth as SLUGS shall without complaint nor the practice known as back-charging, clean, repair, and make perfect any structure into which they enter, irregardless if said discovered damage was caused by those gods who walketh before them.

Amen.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

daArch said:


> Scott, Scott, Scott,
> 
> Didn't you get the memo ?? I think it was sent out sometime in the last century, it went something like this:
> 
> ...


 
Bill

I cant stop laughing! Thats great! :thumbup:


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

Ditto,,, thanks for the insight


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## Brian (Apr 10, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> _This is where you've got it all wrong, Cap'n. Any professional in any trade should clean up after themselves. You created the dust, you clean it. And guess what...if you cleaned it, you would see the imperfections and have a chance to fix them and save yourself a trip back. _
> 
> _When we paint windows and get paint on glass, we clean it. We dont assume that cleaning crew that comes in after us has room in their bid to clean up after us._


At the risk of being sarcastic, that's a novel concept-- take responsibility for your actions. 

As Bill so hilariously demonstrated, the painter is expected to fix everything. We're the "make it pretty guys", and we're expected to make everything look good. The problem is, there are a lot of painters who do this, and then they wonder why they don't make any money.

You can't bid what you can't see. And you certainly can't see much when you've got your tongue up the GC's butt.

Brian Phillips


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

I just showed up today to prime a basement finish job today and there was dust all over. they swept up, thats it there was big piles of dust in every crack and corner!


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## zerowned (Jul 23, 2008)

I have done the whole "broom" off the dust method but has anyone tried an air compressor with a blower tip to blow down the walls of the dust in the corners and on the joints?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

zerowned said:


> I have done the whole "broom" off the dust method but has anyone tried an air compressor with a blower tip to blow down the walls of the dust in the corners and on the joints?


That particular flavor of dust is not much fun to blow around, filtered vacuum works well though. Thats a tool that should be in the Drywallers arsenal.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Now I know us paperhangers are all prima donnas, and by being such we really do put up a stink if ANY dust is left on the walls.

If you wonder how effective your method of dust removal is, wipe your hand on the walls after you have blown, sucked, or swept the wall. If there is residue dust on your hand - it ain't clean enough for the prima donnas.

my favorite method ? A damp "miftie" (micro fiber towel) 

As I said recently about painting over paste residue, the same works for "dusted walls" . If there is any dust on the walls and you are applying a coat of paint over it, it would be the same as throwing a handful of dust in your pail, tray, or bucket. I am pretty sure the manufacturers would not recommend this for proper adhesion AND I am pretty sure the finish painted surface would not be blemish free. 

but that's just the prima donna in me speaking


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