# Painting as a Side Job



## BADPIG (Sep 5, 2008)

This was a very good post and discussion topic. I am a new contractor in the Sacramento area and I have already ordered some of the reading materials listed on this page. While I am not a, "Newbie" to painting, this site really helps.

I do have one question. How many painting contractors out there are professionals in another area / field and do painting contracting as a side business? I would like to hear from some of those guys and thier experiences. I will be painting part time as an augment to my income. 

I respect the guys that are doing this for a living as it is NOT easy. I told my partner that just because we don't need to make alot of money on each job that doesn't mean we are going to underbid guys that depend on this for a living. I am going to charge a higher rate due to our quality of work and the fact is that I really don't want to get overwhelmed.

A big problem I see here in California is the unlicensed guys painting a whole house for 600 bucks and a case of Bud! Let me know what you guys think, and any additional insight would be appreciated on this overall topic.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

*Badpig: Painting as a secondary job*

This is a reply to Badpig's question from one of the stickies so the sticky stays on topic.

For me, it can be a little bit of a turn off to see the "jack of all trades master of none." I do not do trim carpentry, but will recommend trim carpenters or bring them in on jobs when it is needed. I do not offer to roof a house that I am painting. Could I do some of those things with a little more practice? Sure. I have my general builder's license so I could build a house for a homeowner if I wanted to, but that is not what I do. There are others who are better at that. I feel if I tried to do other trades jobs, either I would be overcharging since it is not what I am best at, or underbidding the real pros at their trade. I feel my attention is best focused on my painting business. Now, some may be able to do all equally well, but I have not met that tradesman yet.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Well, since many paperhangers are also or have also been painters, it would be hypocritical to agree with you. But I do see your point.

And you may say that painting and papering are the same trade, but believe me , they ain't no where close to each other. Totally different skill sets and knowledge. They overlap because they are both on walls, and it matters what is on the wall prior to papering, but that's about it.

I know HVAC guys that are good at a myriad of trades - they hafta be.

But I understand your point, and in general agree. I'm just making room for the exceptions.


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## TooledUp (May 17, 2008)

daArch said:


> Well, since many paperhangers are also or have also been painters, it would be hypocritical to agree with you. But I do see your point.
> 
> And you may say that painting and papering are the same trade, but believe me , they ain't no where close to each other. Totally different skill sets and knowledge. They overlap because they are both on walls, and it matters what is on the wall prior to papering, but that's about it.
> 
> ...


That seems to be a major difference between each side o the channel. Sure, we have people who just paint here but we also have Painters & Decorators - The latter covers all the other areas of our trade such as paper hanging, paint effects, texturing, spraying etc. I suppose you might compare it to a carpenter who can construct a timber framed house and also put the finishings on (doors trim etc). Some can do one and some can do all. 

As for 'handymen' or people who cover a multitude of trades, I don't have any time for them either. Yeah I'll do the odd small repair on some timber so that I can get a job finished but everyone to their own trade. 

<rant>
As for a comment on another thread where the handyman said he's had to sort out problems and put right work that so called professional painters have left - They obvioulsy weren't 'professional' painters were they? I'm sure we've seen more botch ups by handymen than our own trade. </rant>


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## Dmax Consulting (Jul 22, 2008)

Once you start painting, you will have people ask you if you can do other work. I am bidding on demolition work right now. Its amazing what painting can lead to.


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## BADPIG (Sep 5, 2008)

I am not in another buidling trade, but I do see your point. No one wants a jack of all trades and master of none. If your a homeowner who likes to do it yourself then being a jack of all trades is great. But we are taking about professional painting here.

I am a Deputy Sheriff at a large Northern California agency. I work at a Correctional Facility that houses over 2,500 inmates. This place is a small city to itself. We have two painters alone assigned to the facilty. My current job is the Project Manager for the facility. I have worked in patrol, courts, and jail system over the last 8 1/2 years.

Painting to me is an art form. I do it professionally, and it is quite the stress relief for me as it is a change from my normal Sheriff duties. 

I enjoy all the different opinions and personalities on this site. Thanks for the responses fellas.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

BADPIG said:


> I am not in another buidling trade, but I do see your point. No one wants a jack of all trades and master of none. If your a homeowner who likes to do it yourself then being a jack of all trades is great. But we are taking about professional painting here.
> 
> I am a Deputy Sheriff at a large Northern California agency. I work at a Correctional Facility that houses over 2,500 inmates. This place is a small city to itself. We have two painters alone assigned to the facilty. My current job is the Project Manager for the facility. I have worked in patrol, courts, and jail system over the last 8 1/2 years.
> 
> ...


Well.... I wish you luck at your "side job", but could you do me a favor and arrest all the unlicensed scum working as painters?
I have worked at other jobs and suplemented my income by painting, but it was easy for me. My family has been in the painting business for over 50 years. Like you said at the beginning, it ain't easy.


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## daren (Jul 5, 2008)

Don't worry the painters will fix it. We are the jack of all trades.


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## PinnacleResidential (Aug 10, 2008)

There are a lot of painters in my area that do cottage care and paint too. A lot of handymen that claim to be painters. Basically, a whole bunch of hacks. I was at an exterior repaint a week ago and one of my guys noticed some flash card issues on the customer's roof. There were also rotten fascia boards around the home. One of my guys is a former roofer so we offered to fix the flash cards and fascia. He tells me how much time he needs to do it, I pay him a little extra than usual and he prices out the materials for me. Then, I decide what I want to make giving my guy up for the amount of time he will need and charge accordingly. I don't advertise other trades, however, my guy is very knowledgable and I TRUST HIM TO DO A GOOD JOB. So, my clients wind up happy that they don't have to find a carpenter / roofer and I wind up making a bit more than I expected. He has probably put $7500 extra in my pocket this summer for little odds and end jobs.


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

ill trim out rooms, replace rotted sills, make window boxes, replace siding, replace rotted soffit and fascia,,,,tile backsplashes,,, this is good stuff to do,,,,it keeps the jobs moving along, and puts great money in your pocket.


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## painterdude (Jun 18, 2008)

Never cared for side jobbers. Can't make enough dough on your real job? Get out there and compete with us. You won't undercut those who do it for a living? yea sure? Got overhead, trucks, pay taxes on the work..workmans comp? Have to pay your own health insurance or does the dept. of corrections cover it? Liability? Please. Years ago I got so tired of you guys I put an add in the paper listing my quailifications. Basically a check list.....Teacher/no, fireman/no, police/no, drivers ed/no etc. etc...then I put in the company name and It's all I do. All the painters in town called and thanked me. Did it help? Who knows, but it made me feel better. Level playing field. It's all we ask. pd


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## ogre (Oct 25, 2007)

Easy Painterdude. I am a fireman and make enough "dough" to survive. Our 24 hrs on and 48 hrs off schedule allows me to paint 30 to 40 hours a week. Dosen't do much for life at home, but you do what you have to do. I use my job in public service as a way to convey to customers that I am trustworthy and responsible. Also, the customers always know where they can find me. Don't worry painterdude we are fully insured and have our share of overhead. To me it is more important to have my wife home with our kids than to worry about the "full time painter dude". 
Mike


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## painterdude (Jun 18, 2008)

Mike, nothing but respect for a fire fighter and it's nice that your wife can stay at home with the kids...mine couldn't. Don't know where you live or your lifestyle but part timers take work away from those who have to work for themselves and take care of their families in only the way that they can. pd


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## painterdude (Jun 18, 2008)

Mike, one more thing. You said you are insured so you have some overhead. I'll assume you're talking about liability insurance. What, 6-700 bucks a year. Who pays yours and your families health insurance? Didn't think so. Hey like I said, nothing but respect for you and the job you do but please don't equate your avocation with those who's families depend on it for all the bacon. best, pd


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

painterdude said:


> Mike, one more thing. You said you are insured so you have some overhead. I'll assume you're talking about liability insurance. What, 6-700 bucks a year. Who pays yours and your families health insurance? Didn't think so. Hey like I said, nothing but respect for you and the job you do but please don't equate your avocation with those who's families depend on it for all the bacon. best, pd


Very well said.


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## Paul_R (Apr 19, 2007)

Do firemen not make enough money to support their families, or just what is the deal? I have worked on projects with firemen who have been painters, electricians, and carpenters. All who have exhibited professionalism in the trades that they have represented, but just makes me wonder why did they not pursue the trade instead of public service? 

Paul.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Never trust a person painting on the side unless they're a painter painting on the side.


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## daren (Jul 5, 2008)

Are you guys saying that a teacher or fireman who paints on the side can not produce the same quality job that we can?

If you are, I disagree. This is not rocket science. If the man can put in 30 hours a week and cares about what he is doing, it won't take too long before he knows how to do it.

My issue with part timers is the prices they charge. But firemen and teachers are usually smart enough to figure out that they can charge $30 - $40+ per hour. It's our own men that screw us. They take jobs on the weekend for $20/hr. Which is below cost for many us. We can't compete with it.


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## painterdude (Jun 18, 2008)

Daren..the point is that side jobbers can come and take work away on their down time. If we're rained out, or snowed off seasonally we can't walk into the firehouse or school even if we know how or were trained( I was a teacher for one year a thousand years ago) and say pay me. Oh sure I can sub for 70 bucks a day and put up with screaming kids but not make as much or more than what I do daily. Level playing field. pd


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## daren (Jul 5, 2008)

PD,
I understand what you are saying. Just because you don't have a second source of income doesn't mean you can stop someone else from doing it. I also hang drywall, replace wood, change lighting and plumbing fixtures, pressure washing and repair and paint cars but since I don't do it everyday should I be banned from doing it? No. These are skills I have and should be able to exchange my skills for money to a willing customer. I think the way to level the playing field to get everyone to charge a similar price for the same quality of work. To me, it sounds like you don't like competition.


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## JTP (Apr 29, 2007)

daren said:


> PD,
> I understand what you are saying. Just because you don't have a second source of income doesn't mean you can stop someone else from doing it. I also hang drywall, replace wood, change lighting and plumbing fixtures, pressure washing and repair and paint cars but since I don't do it everyday should I be banned from doing it? No. These are skills I have and should be able to exchange my skills for money to a willing customer. I think the way to level the playing field to get everyone to charge a similar price for the same quality of work. To me, it sounds like you don't like competition.


Daren--

I agree with you completely. You will never prevent people from making money by selling services. Level playing field? Forget it--in the real world, being underbid and losing the job is reality. The reasons you get underbid are varied. Some reasons may not be legal or legit, but the practical result is still--you did not get the work.

Disliking or even hating people b/c they compete against you is a lesson in keeping one's blood pressure up and profits down. Unless you counteract the competition, you're not going to work.

So--if I am up against a part-time fireman, I am going to sell myself on a number of factors applicable to this specific situation. I'd better find the front and center reason my potential customer has for the work. If you truly believe price is the only issue, better move on if you can't get the job done for less than the fireman.

I venture a guess the customer has other reasons, over and above price, for hiring one contractor over another. If you make the proper distinction(s), you will get the job, a good portion of the time, by stacking your reasons to be hired vs. the part-timer.

I'm wondering if the intent of this thread is to claim that a part timer cannot be equally as good a craftsman as the full-timer. I hope this is not the intent b/c it makes no sense to believe this is the case.

Skill set for skill set--some are better at what they do than others. I have played guitar since I was 13--that's 44 years of playing. I still can't do much other than play rhythym and a tiny bit of lead. Conversely, I know part-time guitar players that pick up a guitar, and in 6 months, play like a real pro in a recording studio.

Given this example, if you were hiring studio musicians, would you hire me or the youngster who can smoke the guitar? Now, don't be so quick to answer. There are several factors to consider here.

I'll let you folks examine this and respond, if you care to. I can say, if you immediately said you'd pick the youngster smoking the guitar, you may want to be able to justify that choice. Look at ALL the factors involved in the situation. I.E. Hiring someone for professional studio recording work.

JTP


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## JAYJAY (Sep 13, 2008)

Part-timers operating out of a pinto and "will work for beer," bother me, but if you can match quality can for can of paint, then have at it! This is America, if quality is not there, then those few will fail. I do not want customers who are willing to hire the "pinto," painter, because they want cheap, fast, and sloppy work.:thumbsup:


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

I think its great teachers, guitar players, fire fighters, welders, bus drivers, college kids, and pickup truck drivers can paint. It makes a great repaint market for me:thumbup:


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## JTP (Apr 29, 2007)

*Home Mechanics*

I hope those that subscribe to letting only the "pros" do work don't do anything else at home but paint. No home oil changes allowed--you might use the wrong grade oil--There a thousands of examples that can be used to illustrate the point.

Sure--if I mess the oil change up, I am providing work to the professional with the sign and pump outside his shop. It is, however, more likely I will use the right grade oil and manage to find the crankcase oil filler hole and not dump the oil into the automatic steering box or trannie fluid.

There are many mundane painting chores that can be accomplished quite successfully by an attentive home owner, part timer, or amateur. 

Let's live in the real world. I humbly suggest that most work in any field be left to the pros. There are times and circumstances, however, that really cry out for do it yourself work. 

Do you think scraping and sanding is a high tech talent? Of course the owner or boss needs to know how much prep and what kind is necessary, but once that has been determined, who gets to do the prep work? Not the guy or gal that can cut a straight line with a 6 inch stain brush. The new person just learning or the laborer with low skills gets nominated for this work almost always.

Let's not get too carried away for how special we all are. As one painter I worked with always remarked--"Hey man, it's only painting." Don't get all offended. Like any other trade, the more you paint, the better you get and the more you know. You never stop learning your trade or craft, but it still isn't rocket science or brains surgury and non-pro painters I personally know can do some awesome painting work and get paid well for it.

There is a big need for good painting contractors--don't go off half cocked here thinking I am promoting the diy folks. I am only sticking up for the American right to make a living selling your services. The marketplace will determine whether you are good enough to remain in business or fail crushed under the weight of factors you never considered.

I think sometimes, we all take ourselves far too seriously. We'd all like to be the top dog and put our skills up against the best that can be found. And that is a terrific way to think and proceed--as if no one is better. If you do a super job--you are going to work no matter what the trade, full time or part time, green card or not. I am not saying you have to like my opinion or agree.



JTP :yes:


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

Paul_R said:


> Do firemen not make enough money to support their families, or just what is the deal? I have worked on projects with firemen who have been painters, electricians, and carpenters. All who have exhibited professionalism in the trades that they have represented, but just makes me wonder why did they not pursue the trade instead of public service?
> 
> Paul.


Public Service = better benefits and retirements and a schedule that gives you time to do other things like you mentioned... 

I have had a few firemen work for me part time and they were all good guys. A lot of did while training or being part time and when they becamse ff full time they gave up working in trades.


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## painterdude (Jun 18, 2008)

Daren. It appears that you are a handy guy. I have little or no skills beyond those of holding and using a brush. You do what you have to in order to make a living. I don't think we are not going to agree which is fine. Again my point is that if you have a good job with good benefits and retirement you are unfairly competing against tradesmen. I was never a big contractor with more than a helper or 2 when things got busy so I don't know about business, but I do know from my own experience that side jobbers undercut me a lot. I like competition more than most. I'm an old college jock and a h.s. coach and still compete on playing fields and everyday(well not everyday anymore) in the workplace. As I said above...level playing field. I wish I had your talents though..it would sure save me a lot of out of pocket expense. best to you. pd


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## boman47k (May 10, 2008)

MAK-Deco said:


> Public Service = better benefits and retirements and a schedule that gives you time to do other things like you mentioned...
> 
> quote]
> 
> Kind of reminds me of the saying, " Sometimes, a slow rolling nickel is worth more than a fast rolling dime".


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## C. VASUDEVAN (Aug 28, 2008)

Basically painting is the last stage in construction so by the time professional painting contractors enter all the other works are over so we are left only with painting. For repainting jobs if at all a customer wants to fix some job like electrical, plumbing, civil or carpentry we have contacts with these guys who come and do a professional work and we do ours. Similarly when our services are needed they pass on the lead to us. Just to make some little extra money we do not enter into each others territory. So it keeps everybody happy. Live and let live. C. Vasudevan


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## BADPIG (Sep 5, 2008)

CApainter said:


> Never trust a person painting on the side unless they're a painter painting on the side.


 
I love it CA Painter!

I haven't checked this thread in a while but I do love the input.:yes:

Let me expand a little bit. I am new Painting Contractor (1 year) but I have 15 years of painting overall...and I'm a LE Professional. I was a painter long before I was bacon.

I have one truck, two guns, and three part time employee's. Since we work in California we pay our share of personal taxes, State BOE taxes, liabilty insurance premiums, city fees, county taxes, and some freakin taxes that I didn't even know existed!

When I first got into the business as a handyman painter 15 years ago I worked for cheap...and I wondered how come I was always working non stop back then? I would hear other (Real) painters complaining about the lack of jobs and consistent work???

THEN!...I figured out that making $7.17 an hour was not what it was cracked up to be and that my body would not hold up for 20+ years of painting.

Nowadays...I'm not the most expensive in town but I bet I'm close. I paint to a 9 or a 10 and I would call myself somewhat of a paint snob personally. I make sure that the paint jobs that I inspect from my crews are at least a 9 or a 10. I lose many many bids and I explain to many customers how I paint and why my fees are so high. When I lose a bid I accept it and move on. 

My three part time employees are full time professional painters with other companies and I use them on a sort of rotational basis. When they have some down time. I pick up what they can't if there is a conflict due to thier schedules, or I just don's schedule the job. I pay $30.00 - $40.00 per hour as my basic labor rate DOE. In financial times like this finding guys to work for this rate is a snap.

I'm not trying to make a killing on this business. I just really enjoy when a job is done correctly, my workers get paid a good wage, and the customer is very happy. Oh yeah...and putting a little coin in my pocket isn't bad either. Gotta love America!!!


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## deltong60 (May 26, 2021)

painterdude said:


> Never cared for side jobbers. Can't make enough dough on your real job? Get out there and compete with us. You won't undercut those who do it for a living? yea sure? Got overhead, trucks, pay taxes on the work..workmans comp? Have to pay your own health insurance or does the dept. of corrections cover it? Liability? Please. Years ago I got so tired of you guys I put an add in the paper listing my quailifications. Basically a check list.....Teacher/no, fireman/no, police/no, drivers ed/no etc. etc...then I put in the company name and It's all I do. All the painters in town called and thanked me. Did it help? Who knows, but it made me feel better. Level playing field. It's all we ask. pd


What you said makes zero sense !


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## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

deltong60 said:


> What you said makes zero sense !


I can think of one thing that makes even less sense. Replying to a 13 year old discussion - especially using the present tense.


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## deltong60 (May 26, 2021)

Joe67 said:


> I can think of one thing that makes even less sense. Replying to a 13 year old discussion - especially using the present tense.


does the age of a statement erode its impact ? Also, "said" is not present tense. It is past tense.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

deltong60 said:


> does the age of a statement erode its impact ? Also, "said" is not present tense. It is past tense.


Welcome to PT.

If you stick around long enough you can join in the fun when someone else unintentionally tries to raise the ghost of a long-dead thread (should be about a day or three).


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## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

deltong60 said:


> does the age of a statement erode its impact ? Also, "said" is not present tense. It is past tense.


Ah, but "makes" is present tense. But anyway, painterdude left the conversation 13 yrs ago. And was "last seen" on this board 6 years ago. Just saying.


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## deltong60 (May 26, 2021)

Joe67 said:


> Ah, but "makes" is present tense. But anyway, painterdude left the conversation 13 yrs ago. And was "last seen" on this board 6 years ago. Just saying.


lol ok champ ! you gassed me. its the 8th round and i got nothing left in the tank. i will look at the age of post next time lol.


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## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

deltong60 said:


> lol ok champ ! you gassed me. its the 8th round and i got nothing left in the tank. i will look at the age of post next time lol.


LOL. No worries man. It happens a lot and people can't resist, I guess. (Including me obviously!)


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## Masterwork (Sep 13, 2020)

It happened a lot and people couldn't resist, you guessed.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Once upon a time... it had been known to happen; the people could not resist, he surmised.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

🤦‍♂️


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