# Sherwin Williams VS California Paints VS Benjamin moore



## Envisionitcanbe (Jan 11, 2017)

for interior and exterior what do you prefer?? let's discuss specs and coverage....


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

California. By far.


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

Between those three...Sherwin.

Those three aren't in my top 5 though.


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

PACman said:


> California. By far.


Bias alert.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

epretot said:


> Bias alert.


he he! u funny!


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## Delta Painting (Apr 27, 2010)

No beating a dead horse so I'm goin with this one... :wallbash:


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

since you are a new poster i'll let you in on something. It's been pretty much determined on this forum that the main criteria used by the majority of members for determining which paint to use is simply paint store convenience. It has very little to do with quality,i.e. specs,coverage etc. Just how close the paint store is.


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

PACman said:


> since you are a new poster i'll let you in on something. It's been pretty much determined on this forum that the main criteria used by the majority of members for determining which paint to use is simply paint store coespnnvenience. It has very little to do with quality,i.e. specs,coverage etc. Just how close the paint store is.


 Don't forget price. Can we talk about price?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> since you are a new poster i'll let you in on something.* It's been pretty much determined on this forum that the main criteria used by the majority of members for determining which paint to use is simply paint store convenience.* It has very little to do with quality,i.e. specs,coverage etc. Just how close the paint store is.


And although it would fulfill one's imagination that most painters buy at the big box stores, most of the convenient stores in my area, are those that sell BM, SW, KM, PPG, Devoe, etc.

BTW, eperot has several PT years of posting on you.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Is it February already?


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> And although it would fulfill one's imagination that most painters buy at the big box stores, most of the convenient stores in my area, are those that sell BM, SW, KM, PPG, Devoe, etc.
> 
> BTW, eperot has several PT years of posting on you.


BTW, I was referring to the OP. Have another box of wine. Send me the bill.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

See this is why we can't get along. I asked point blank a couple of months ago what the biggest determining factor in what paint people used and the number one answer by far was store location. At least by the way you all jumped my 5hit that was what i thought we had determined. And how much lower of a price do you need to drive an extra 10 minutes? 30 minutes? An hour? If you are getting it that much cheaper is it an equivalent quality? And wouldn't a much cheaper paint cost you more in labor than what you saved per gallon?

Then why oh why do I have regular customers driving that extra hour EACH WAY several times a month? Because my paint is CHEAPER? Nope. The guys who only want cheap paint go to SW.


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

PACman said:


> See this is why we can't get along. I asked point blank a couple of months ago what the biggest determining factor in what paint people used and the number one answer by far was store location. At least by the way you all jumped my 5hit that was what i thought we had determined. And how much lower of a price do you need to drive an extra 10 minutes? 30 minutes? An hour? If you are getting it that much cheaper is it an equivalent quality? And wouldn't a much cheaper paint cost you more in labor than what you saved per gallon?
> 
> Then why oh why do I have regular customers driving that extra hour EACH WAY several times a month? Because my paint is CHEAPER? Nope. The guys who only want cheap paint go to SW.


You're so easy to troll.


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

Lets compare apples to oranges to pears.....


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

When we are done with this conversation, can we talk about systems?


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## DEK Painting inc. (Dec 31, 2016)

As a repaint specialist from Florida for over 20 years , I have used SWP superpaint , colorwheel Optima , BM moorgard , Porter Acrishield , Portersept satin , Glidden premium and the dreaded Russian mascot from The home depot . What I have experienced was that Colorwheel Optima , and SWP superpaint holds up the best overall in Our climate , with Porters Acrishield and portersept coming in next . The ones that faded the quickest where BM moorgard , Behr premium , and Glidden premium ! The paint that takes the longest to have mildew grow on the surface is Colorwheels Optima , and Portersept satin ! Because of availability , pricing and that Colorwheel is no longer in business ( SWP bought them out and priced Optima at to high of a price ) and Porter is 40 miles away I use Superpaint satin on most of my repaints ! Of course everyones experiance is going to be different because of location , prep , colors , and application methods !


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I am partial to BM. I really liked California 2010 as well, but it did fade pretty bad in 7-8 years of exposure on exterior.

Aura is my favorite interior wall paint. It has great coverage with microfibers (I like 9/16ths).

Reasons for BM? 
1. Available at many stores in my area.

2. Wide selection of products and good colors. Fewer custom matches to deal with, can usually get a customer to pick a BM color and they will have a suitable product in their line up. The fewer custom matches the better.

3. A BM store is 2,241 feet from my shop. And they have great service.


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## 007 Dave (Jun 22, 2016)

DEK Painting inc. said:


> As a repaint specialist from Florida for over 20 years , I have used SWP superpaint , colorwheel Optima , BM moorgard , Porter Acrishield , Portersept satin , Glidden premium and the dreaded Russian mascot from The home depot . What I have experienced was that Colorwheel Optima , and SWP superpaint holds up the best overall in Our climate , with Porters Acrishield and portersept coming in next . The ones that faded the quickest where BM moorgard , Behr premium , and Glidden premium ! The paint that takes the longest to have mildew grow on the surface is Colorwheels Optima , and Portersept satin ! Because of availability , pricing and that Colorwheel is no longer in business ( SWP bought them out and priced Optima at to high of a price ) and Porter is 40 miles away I use Superpaint satin on most of my repaints ! Of course everyones experiance is going to be different because of location , prep , colors , and application methods !


You know your climate better than I do. I live in Indiana. So this is not to debate your statement. Why would Super paint be better than Duration? and The same question with Porters Acrishield better than Permanizer?


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

007 Dave said:


> You know your climate better than I do. I live in Indiana. So this is not to debate your statement. Why would Super paint be better than Duration? and The same question with Porters Acrishield better than Permanizer?


Price.


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## 007 Dave (Jun 22, 2016)

PACman said:


> California. By far.


I like the porters Permanizer the most out of all the paints I have used. I have not used the California exterior paint. And don't know anything about it or the quality. We do have a do it Best store here in town that carries the California paints. With your knowledge,tell me this. What California exterior paint would I ask for that is comparable or better product than Porters Permanizer?


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## 007 Dave (Jun 22, 2016)

epretot said:


> Price.


There is a very small difference in the price. Maybe $10 a gallon would be the most.

Price shouldn't matter a whole lot because that gets passed to the home owner.

A lot of painters want to talk about how much pride they put in their work but then turn around and use a crappy paint.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

007 Dave said:


> There is a very small difference in the price. Maybe $10 a gallon would be the most.
> 
> Price shouldn't matter a whole lot because that gets passed to the home owner.
> 
> A lot of painters want to talk about how much pride they put in their work but then turn around and use a crappy paint.


amen brother.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

007 Dave said:


> I like the porters Permanizer the most out of all the paints I have used. I have not used the California exterior paint. And don't know anything about it or the quality. We do have a do it Best store here in town that carries the California paints. With your knowledge,tell me this. What California exterior paint would I ask for that is comparable or better product than Porters Permanizer?


The 2010 exterior. When used with the Trillion colorants. This spring you should be able to get the new Ultra line, which is a new product using the best formulations available from California and Muralo.


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## DEK Painting inc. (Dec 31, 2016)

007 Dave said:


> You know your climate better than I do. I live in Indiana. So this is not to debate your statement. Why would Super paint be better than Duration? and The same question with Porters Acrishield better than Permanizer?


Superpaint is not better than Duration ! Duration is time consuming to apply (thicker paint) , and you still have to apply 2 coats to achieve the proper millage ( You have to add about 30% more labor hrs. to proposal)! If people would be willing to pay I would use Duration, most painters that I bid against Use superpaint ! I get Superpaint for $20 less per gallon ! As far as Porter is concerned I have never tried Permanizer .


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## DEK Painting inc. (Dec 31, 2016)

007 Dave said:


> There is a very small difference in the price. Maybe $10 a gallon would be the most.
> 
> Price shouldn't matter a whole lot because that gets passed to the home owner.
> 
> A lot of painters want to talk about how much pride they put in their work but then turn around and use a crappy paint.


Superpaint is not a crappy paint !!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Aaaaaand they're off!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

DEK Painting inc. said:


> Superpaint is not a crappy paint !!


It's been around unchanged since the early eighties so how could it be a crappy paint? I mean, a computer that hasn't changed since 1984 wouldn't necessarily be a crappy computer would it? Or a 1984 Dodge Aries? It wouldn't be a crappy car would it?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> BTW, I was referring to the OP. Have another box of wine. Send me the bill.


Got it.


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

007 Dave said:


> There is a very small difference in the price. Maybe $10 a gallon would be the most.
> 
> Price shouldn't matter a whole lot because that gets passed to the home owner.
> 
> A lot of painters want to talk about how much pride they put in their work but then turn around and use a crappy paint.


Couldn't agree more. But that 10 dollars is a big deal to a lot of painters. Don't ask me why. 

Can we talk about systems now?


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> Got it.


You know they put the fresh stuff in the boxes right? They only put the old stuff in bottles.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

epretot said:


> Couldn't agree more. But that 10 dollars is a big deal to a lot of painters. Don't ask me why.
> 
> Can we talk about systems now?


It's amazing how much $10 is to some of them. Hell even $1.00 is too much for some painters.


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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

theres so many different products in so many different stores that are always changing i wonder if this is a question most of us can even answer.


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

Vylum said:


> theres so many different products in so many different stores that are always changing i wonder if this is a question most of us can even answer.


I doubt there is much difference between brands anyway.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Vylum said:


> theres so many different products in so many different stores that are always changing i wonder if this is a question most of us can even answer.


unless you use every one in every color and in every condition, you really can't. That's what paint labs are for.


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## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

Well, since we are going "all in" on the noob, I'm just gonna "get out with it" and say neither. I prefer BEHR paint because consumer reports says it's the best.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Gymschu said:


> Well, since we are going "all in" on the noob, I'm just gonna "get out with it" and say neither. I prefer BEHR paint because consumer reports says it's the best.


yeah if you gotta ask, just use the behrs paint.


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## 007 Dave (Jun 22, 2016)

DEK Painting inc. said:


> Superpaint is not a crappy paint !!


I'll agree with you. Super paint isn't a crappy paint. It does serve it's purpose. And I would use it if the home owner requested it. I just feel with the labor cost to paint the house compared to the price of paint , We should always try to use the best. I may be quilty of not using the best too,I weigh convenience into it myself. Thats why I use Sherwin and Porter. If the customer tells me to get what I want I usually use Permanizer Satin.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

007 Dave said:


> I'll agree with you. Super paint isn't a crappy paint. It does serve it's purpose. And I would use it if the home owner requested it. I just feel with the labor cost to paint the house compared to the price of paint , We should always try to use the best. I may be quilty of not using the best too,I weigh convenience into it myself. Thats why I use Sherwin and Porter. If the customer tells me to get what I want I usually use Permanizer Satin.


I'm afraid you can't post that comment here. It makes too much sense for this forum.


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## DEK Painting inc. (Dec 31, 2016)

PACman said:


> I'm afraid you can't post that comment here. It makes too much sense for this forum.


We have guys down here in Fl. that will repaint a 2000 sq. ft. stucco house for $1000.00 !! For the same house I charge an average of $2500 for stucco , garage door and 2 ext. doors. Using superpaint and loxon conditioner Im usually around $750 for the material. That is the foolishness a quality painter is up against in Fla. I refuse to lower my price , and have went days without working to keep my prices up ! I wish I could use Emerald , or Duration , all the time , but that is not the case .


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## 007 Dave (Jun 22, 2016)

In 2010 my uncle that lives in Brandon, Florida added on to his house. When he did he had the stucco all they way around his house and garage redone. I wasn't a full time painter then and the company I worked for gave me 4 weeks vacation a year so giving up a weeks vacation wasn't a big deal to me My uncle would do anything for me if I ask him to and has helped my wife and I when we first got married so this was my chance to pay him back..When he was up here for a family get together he was kidding around and said he needed me to come down to Florida and paint his house. Ok tell me when you need me.I told him if he paid for the gas I'll do it. We talked a little bit more about it and came to an agreement that gas and two nights motel and I'll do it. It came out to $200 motel and $300 in gas. I worked all week and he help a couple of hours after he got home from work each night and my aunt helped as well. It was not a small house. We brush and rolled it. We did a primer coat and a top coat.I got his house done but had one side of the garage to finish He told me he was out in the yard one day about a week before I got there a van full of hispanic's pulled up in his drive way and told him they would paint his house and garage with a primer coat and finish coat for $500.


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## DEK Painting inc. (Dec 31, 2016)

Sounds about right 007 Dave !!!!


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

I'd rather work at Walmart than paint exteriors at the Florida heat at those prices. 

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Gymschu said:


> Well, since we are going "all in" on the noob, I'm just gonna "get out with it" and say neither. I prefer BEHR paint because consumer reports says it's the best.


and everyone knows that is truth:vs_laugh:


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## Californiapaints94 (Jan 8, 2017)

Looking forward to California's new ultra interior line... I bet with the Trillion colorant it'll blow Benjamin Moore aura interior out the water...the 2010 exterior surpassed Benjamin moores exterior already imo


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Californiapaints94 said:


> Looking forward to California's new ultra interior line... I bet with the Trillion colorant it'll blow Benjamin Moore aura interior out the water...the 2010 exterior surpassed Benjamin moores exterior already imo


From what I have been told, the Ultra is Graham ceramic flat and satin in a new label plus Trillion tints. Grahams is good stuff, but we are all BM lately.


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## Californiapaints94 (Jan 8, 2017)

I also heard it could be a mixture of California and muralo but who knows trillions colorant covers exceptionally well so we'll see


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

DeanV said:


> From what I have been told, the Ultra is Graham ceramic flat and satin in a new label plus Trillion tints. Grahams is good stuff, but we are all BM lately.


From what I understand the new Ultra line (technically the "Ultra Aquaborne Ceramic" line) is a mix of products from the three companies, California, Muralo, and Graham. I do know that the Graham Aquaborne Flat was probably the best ceramic true flat on the market, so that is probably the flat. Also from my experience here in the hillbilly test lab the Muralo satin and semigloss laid out better then the Cali Superscrub, so I'd bet that the satin and s/g are Muralo formulations. The matte and eggshell are I believe are the Cali Superscrub products, again due to my personnel testing.


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## AkronPainters (Jan 20, 2017)

*Convenience*

As mentioned in a prior response I think it ultimately comes down to convenience. My painting company works near a lot of Sherwin Williams stores so that's my go to store.


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## Greg Mrakich (Apr 19, 2010)

B-Moore...drops mic and walks off stage


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

I used some California paint last week and it ruined by brushes:vs_mad:

Is that normal for this stuff? It was interior matte


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

chrisn said:


> I used some California paint last week and it ruined by brushes:vs_mad:
> 
> Is that normal for this stuff? It was interior matte


what brushes? The .50 cent chip brushes don't work well with it.

Was the paint SuperScrub or Unite?


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

PACman said:


> what brushes? The .50 cent chip brushes don't work well with it.
> 
> Was the paint SuperScrub or Unite?


You're a professional deflector. Bravo! 

I'm impressed as I myself happen to be an amateur.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

epretot said:


> You're a professional deflector. Bravo!
> 
> I'm impressed as I myself happen to be an amateur.


actually o was going to point out that he should use a chinex with the superscrub because of the ceramic pigment.


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

PACman said:


> actually o was going to point out that he should use a chinex with the superscrub because of the ceramic pigment.


Good recovery. You are very skilled.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Well is was super scrub or some such thing and waterborne. I did not use chinex but a normal Wooster whatever and it ruined it. So the ceramic ruins them and I should be using an oil brush?


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## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

AkronPainters said:


> As mentioned in a prior response I think it ultimately comes down to convenience. My painting company works near a lot of Sherwin Williams stores so that's my go to store.


I agree , I've always been a mad scientist trying out all different products but older I get closer and easier I want everything to be. I am lucky though in my area I have a few good independents and SW stores all around . Along with it a zillion painting company's :vs_whistle:


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

chrisn said:


> Well is was super scrub or some such thing and waterborne. I did not use chinex but a normal Wooster whatever and it ruined it. So the ceramic ruins them and I should be using an oil brush?


was it a Lowe's or Home Depot Wooster brush? They are made of a much weaker filament then the real top line Wooster brushes. Also, what exactly did it do to the brush? Did they wear down or fan out? Not clean out? That would help determine what the issue was. I would however recommend a Chinex brush with it regardless. There is quite a bit of pigment that needs to be moved when you are brushing with Superscrub. You need a little stiffer brush to do that. Also the chinex cleans out much better.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

PACman said:


> was it a Lowe's or Home Depot Wooster brush? They are made of a much weaker filament then the real top line Wooster brushes. Also, what exactly did it do to the brush? Did they wear down or fan out? Not clean out? That would help determine what the issue was. I would however recommend a Chinex brush with it regardless. There is quite a bit of pigment that needs to be moved when you are brushing with Superscrub. You need a little stiffer brush to do that. Also the chinex cleans out much better.


It was from the "paintstore.com" and yes it fanned out and wouldn't clean out at all, completely ruined it.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

chrisn said:


> It was from the "paintstore.com" and yes it fanned out and wouldn't clean out at all, completely ruined it.


What particular brush was it? Or did I miss that in your post? It wasn't an Alpha was it?


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

sounds like it had to much cheap polyester in the "blend". That's what makes brushes not clean out in waterbourne paints. Typically anyway.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

PACman said:


> What particular brush was it? Or did I miss that in your post? It wasn't an Alpha was it?


To tell the truth, I don't remember:001_unsure: Us old guys have these moments, (that turn into forever)


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I use Corona Cortez for most interior things, corona sabre often for trim. Trying the alphas more as well. They hold more paint, but do not cut in quite as nice. I personally do not care for Chinex brushes much. They clean up nice but I do not think they wear well over time.


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## HC-Raad (Jan 26, 2017)

I've been using Sherwin Williams. Great products.


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## Exactoman (Mar 28, 2013)

PACman said:


> since you are a new poster i'll let you in on something. It's been pretty much determined on this forum that the main criteria used by the majority of members for determining which paint to use is simply paint store convenience. It has very little to do with quality,i.e. specs,coverage etc. Just how close the paint store is.


When it comes to decks... California Storm System by far. Ben Moore everything else. Its not even close quality wise. Ive done side by side spec tests with sherwin and ben, using sherwins high end vs not even bens high end and its not close.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Exactoman said:


> When it comes to decks... California Storm System by far. Ben Moore everything else. Its not even close quality wise. Ive done side by side spec tests with sherwin and ben, using sherwins high end vs not even bens high end and its not close.


I've been doing side by side tests for many,many years. Even when I worked for SW the tests were quite conclusive. That's why I decided to TRY to ignore the SW "greatness" posts.:wink:


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

If BM had a brick and mortar store near me, I would try it. However, the stores that carry it have employees the are Home Depot-esque from a knowledge stand point. 

No thanks.


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## Exactoman (Mar 28, 2013)

epretot said:


> If BM had a brick and mortar store near me, I would try it. However, the stores that carry it have employees the are Home Depot-esque from a knowledge stand point.
> 
> No thanks.


You dont need knowledgeable employees to sell you Ben Moore products. Youre on here. Just ask Pacman and buy away.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

epretot said:


> If BM had a brick and mortar store near me, I would try it. However, the stores that carry it have employees the are Home Depot-esque from a knowledge stand point.
> 
> No thanks.


Home Depot-esque. Lol. That's a keeper.:vs_laugh:


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

Exactoman said:


> You dont need knowledgeable employees to sell you Ben Moore products. Youre on here. Just ask Pacman and buy away.


I agree. But it irritates me to the core when they ask "what are you painting"?

Just give me the paint!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

epretot said:


> I agree. But it irritates me to the core when they ask "what are you painting"?
> 
> Just give me the paint!


That's annoying as hell isn't it? I guess they know their target market pretty well, and it obviously isn't professional painters regardless of what they say. That's a pretty standard sales question for DIY customers, but for a pro?


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## SWPB (Oct 6, 2016)

Try either:

1) Ace Hardware Clifton: Bryan Valerius. This is the only ACE store that I know of that delivers across the area, has competitive pricing, and services the hell out of you.

2) B & E Paint: John Kennedy. Recently picked up BM in late 2016. The locals love this guy, but it's a one man show (may not be ideal for deliveries).

I don't think you will be disappointed with either one of them. I'm not and I only travel through there on occasion.





epretot said:


> If BM had a brick and mortar store near me, I would try it. However, the stores that carry it have employees the are Home Depot-esque from a knowledge stand point.
> 
> No thanks.


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## Roll_Cam_Tide (Feb 3, 2017)

PPG - Pure Performance interior flat enamel, Sunproof or Fortis 350 exterior


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