# Maple Cabinet Nightmare



## michaeljmann2000 (Jun 5, 2017)

Been awhile since I have done maple cabinets but have 4000 sq. foot. home with cabinets everywhere and the wood grain is tighter than a . .. well this is a family site, but really non porous surface as I have seen no way wiping stain tried old master picalaney so looking like have to dye stain, or paint them.

To paint or dye stain that is the question. I don't think painting would be way to proceed.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Can you give some more details, pics...

Is it new or previously finished? If previously finished, with what?
Is it for you or a customer? If so, what does the customer want?

I think Maple looks great stained and varnished.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Saman water-based stain, or a gel stain will go on more evenly and darker if that's the look you are going for?


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

michaeljmann2000 said:


> Been awhile since I have done maple cabinets but have 4000 sq. foot. home with cabinets everywhere and the wood grain is tighter than a . .. well this is a family site, but really non porous surface as I have seen no way wiping stain tried old master picalaney so looking like have to dye stain, or paint them.
> 
> To paint or dye stain that is the question. I don't think painting would be way to proceed.


Use a waterborne stain. Alternatively if those are not available use a dye.


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## michaeljmann2000 (Jun 5, 2017)

Holland said:


> Can you give some more details, pics...
> 
> Is it new or previously finished? If previously finished, with what?
> Is it for you or a customer? If so, what does the customer want?
> ...


The wood is unfinished and looks to be sanded with 300 grit to like a polished wood surface no way will take a stain without re sanding to open up the grain. That is why I am hoping a dye will give better results, They want an antiquish white wash look with hiding the grain. I put on some Old Masters Oil base to satisfy the customer let it stand for 15 minutes. Had to prove to him that the wood in such a polished state cant absorb the pigment, no matter what the solvent base is. If you look closely at the top of the door you can see the very limited absorption of the white wiping stain. Others have asked and thanks to all for input, they want a white wash look.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

michaeljmann2000 said:


> The wood is unfinished and looks to be sanded with 300 grit to like a polished wood surface no way will take a stain without* re sanding to open up the grain*


sounds like you already have your answer


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## michaeljmann2000 (Jun 5, 2017)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Saman water-based stain, or a gel stain will go on more evenly and darker if that's the look you are going for?


Many thanks my Canadian friend. I am in California hoping to find something that hasn't been taken off the shelf due to environmental concerns. They have nothing like that at my local suppliers Kelly Moore, PPG, Ben Moore, SW, picked the brains of the guys behind the counter that service the journeyman like you, they all give me a funny look and tell me that surface too smooth and I agree just hoping some alternative might work.


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## monarchski (Jun 21, 2019)

michaeljmann2000 said:


> Many thanks my Canadian friend. I am in California hoping to find something that hasn't been taken off the shelf due to environmental concerns. They have nothing like that at my local suppliers Kelly Moore, PPG, Ben Moore, SW, picked the brains of the guys behind the counter that service the journeyman like you, they all give me a funny look and tell me that surface too smooth and I agree just hoping some alternative might work.


Short of painting it, there's no guarantee anything will hide all the grain. Years ago when white wash/milk wash was really popular, I used to take an oil based primer and thin it down with paint thinner, spray it on and then start working some off with a brush to give it a really heavy white wash look. Very labor intensive though and you will get some brush marks in it.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Am I understanding correctly: 

You're trying to pickle the wood? Some of the grain showing, but slightly obscured? A "Translucent" finish? A stain with White pigment, or something white that is thinned?


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

Maybe Daly’s 2-part wood bleach or equivalent (hydrogen peroxide & lye), neutralize w/vinegar, and whiten it w/ white Woca Wood Lye followed by clearing it..haven’t tried it on maple but it worked well on other hardwoods..


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

michaeljmann2000 said:


> Many thanks my Canadian friend. I am in California hoping to find something that hasn't been taken off the shelf due to environmental concerns. They have nothing like that at my local suppliers Kelly Moore, PPG, Ben Moore, SW, picked the brains of the guys behind the counter that service the journeyman like you, they all give me a funny look and tell me that surface too smooth and I agree just hoping some alternative might work.


 Well, if they are not wanting to see the grain, and the wood will not accept stain, why are you trying to stain it? Sounds like you need to make yourself a pigmented whitewash. Lots of recipes out there. What about a semi-solid exterior latex stain..Or a watered down solid stain..Maybe @fauxlynn will chime in..


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## michaeljmann2000 (Jun 5, 2017)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Use a waterborne stain. Alternatively if those are not available use a dye.





Holland said:


> Am I understanding correctly:
> 
> You're trying to pickle the wood? Some of the grain showing, but slightly obscured? A "Translucent" finish? A stain with White pigment, or something white that is thinned?


Yes and I am seeing some interesting approaches. Old school stuff that I have never tried before. 

I am thinking we are going to have to open the grain by sanding


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## michaeljmann2000 (Jun 5, 2017)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Well, if they are not wanting to see the grain, and the wood will not accept stain, why are you trying to stain it? Sounds like you need to make yourself a pigmented whitewash. Lots of recipes out there. What about a semi-solid exterior latex stain..Or a watered down solid stain..Maybe @fauxlynn will chime in..


They want to see the grain, or at this point wanting to get it done so it is whitish looking. Painting them is last thing I want to do no problem there that XIM primer is an incredible coating for non porous surfaces. I have time to test all of the suggestions here so awesome thanks for the input


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

michaeljmann2000 said:


> Yes and I am seeing some interesting approaches. Old school stuff that I have never tried before.
> 
> I am thinking we are going to have to open the grain by sanding


Yes sand 150-220 grit then use general finishes 'whitewash'. Very easy and will be available in California.


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## michaeljmann2000 (Jun 5, 2017)

Redux said:


> Maybe Daly’s 2-part wood bleach or equivalent (hydrogen peroxide & lye), neutralize w/vinegar, and whiten it w/ white Woca Wood Lye followed by clearing it..haven’t tried it on maple but it worked well on other hardwoods..
> 
> View attachment 110971





cocomonkeynuts said:


> sounds like you already have your answer


But I hate reality!


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

michaeljmann2000 said:


> But I hate reality!


Before you go knocking yourself out by sanding everything, try water popping first...it might open up the wood’s fibers enough to allow the stain to bite into the wood better, possibly providing a more saturated look.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Redux said:


> Before you go knocking yourself out by sanding everything, try water popping first...it might open up the wood’s fibers enough to allow the stain to bite into the wood better, possibly providing a more saturated look.


I ad thought about water popping but I had doubts weather it would achieve an even enough surface. Even then you might have issues with the stain and topcoat adhering to the wood


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> I ad thought about water popping but I had doubts weather it would achieve an even enough surface. Even then you might have issues with the stain and topcoat adhering to the wood


I’ve only used dyes on maple but I generally water pop first. It nearly doubles the dye absorption. Dunno how it would work with pigment though..definitely no adhesion issues as long as it’s dry, having water popped maple flooring where adhesion is essential.


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## michaeljmann2000 (Jun 5, 2017)

michaeljmann2000 said:


> But I hate reality!





Holland said:


> Am I understanding correctly:
> 
> You're trying to pickle the wood? Some of the grain showing, but slightly obscured? A "Translucent" finish? A stain with White pigment, or something white that is thinned?


Sorry I missed your post as I am trying to keep up with the awesome support here from the membership. What you say above is well put and that is the objective. 


Redux said:


> I’ve only used dyes on maple but I generally water pop first. It nearly doubles the dye absorption. Dunno how it would work with pigment though..definitely no adhesion issues as long as it’s dry, having water popped maple flooring where adhesion is essential.


The sample picture I just did a test and definitely "popped" the grain. I have enough info here to test each theory see what works will follow up with pics and evaluation.


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

Sub-out to a cabinet finisher that knows what to do?


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Redux said:


> I’ve only used dyes on maple but I generally water pop first. It nearly doubles the dye absorption. Dunno how it would work with pigment though..definitely no adhesion issues as long as it’s dry, having water popped maple flooring where adhesion is essential.


Sorry if it wasn't clear but from the description I assumed it wasn't sanded at all just straight from the factory. In that case not sure how effective water popping alone would be


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## michaeljmann2000 (Jun 5, 2017)

MikeCalifornia said:


> Sub-out to a cabinet finisher that knows what to do?


With all the good support and advice here, feeling pretty good about success. I have 100 hours here easily with this job and don't want to pass that up. California is shut down again people getting nervous, thank goodness I have good rep in a small community. All the cabs I have done are oak or paint grade, and have done maple sanded this smooth. I ate dirt in first pandemic got lucky and had a few jobs paid well that carried me to pay the bills.


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## michaeljmann2000 (Jun 5, 2017)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Sorry if it wasn't clear but from the description I assumed it wasn't sanded at all just straight from the factory.


Well it was from this particular factory, or cabinet shop in this case. It was a side job type of thing and I think the fella that made them wanted to do a really good job, and sanded it to near polished state, in fact this stuff so smooth seems like it was buffed. I tested with water popping and that help so I experiment tomorrow with advice from the group. WOO HOO and thanks to everyone for being so nice.


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## Ricko (Dec 16, 2020)

I would wet them to raise grain ,stain may absorb better


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## Ricko (Dec 16, 2020)

Not sure ? But worth a shot


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## michaeljmann2000 (Jun 5, 2017)

Ricko said:


> I would wet them to raise grain ,stain may absorb better


Ricko thanks man! Yes without a doubt the pre wetting worked and opened up the grain. The downside is the amount of time to do this by hand. There are grooves and intricacies that will be a pain. I had a conversation with a fella that is mostly a cabinet guy and he suggested a white pigmented lacquer 50 50 dilution with lacquer thinner and apply with automotive cup sprayer. I am likely going to have him on the job site and show me exactly how to use his technique which would save a lot of labor. In any case I am going to record it and post it here for all to absorb, (pun intended)


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## Ricko (Dec 16, 2020)

Try using a spray bottle,


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## Ricko (Dec 16, 2020)

Windex bottle or similar and spray the water on


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