# Re-finishing stained trim



## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

I'm pretty green in this area. Most of what I've done is entire window sills, where it's easy to sand it down to bare wood and re-stain and clear coat. I'm curious how some of you who do these often like to go at these jobs?

Plan is to find the closest stain match, scuff sand, and re-stain the whole piece. Then polyurethane. Seems relatively straightforward, just wondering any good tips, pointers, things to watch out for? Previous thread I should go look at so as to not waste everyone's time?

I've actually had pretty decent luck with water-based stains and clear coats when doing new trim and casings. I've been using the Zar brand. It's also kind of nice because it's same-day recoat. Guessing probably not a good idea to use water-based over solvent-based stains and clear coats though?


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Ouch those are worn pretty bad, give a good sanding then Old masters or general finishes gel stain, you can use water based finishes if you give adequate dry time 24-48 hours. You can use water based stains for this too but oil gives A LOT more open time. A little bit goes a long way too. I restained a bench, fire place mantel, coat rack, stair railing and a couple odds and ends with only a pint.


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## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

You didn't give a whole lot of context here on the scale of the job or what, exactly, you need to accomplish. But - and I don't mean to be a downer - but these jobs are a nightmare no matter what. This is especially the case if you're expected to match stuff rather than re-doing it all. And if redoing it all - also a nightmare.

Any chance you can just talk them into painting them instead...? But the time you're done mucking around, only one of two things will have happened. One is that you have lost your shirt, finally said "sorry, it's as good as it will get," and they're still not happy. The second is that if you don't lose your shirt, they'll wish they just ordered replacements or had you paint them once they see the bill.


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Ouch those are worn pretty bad, give a good sanding then Old masters or general finishes gel stain, you can use water based finishes if you give adequate dry time 24-48 hours. You can use water based stains for this too but oil gives A LOT more open time. A little bit goes a long way too. I restained a bench, fire place mantel, coat rack, stair railing and a couple odds and ends with only a pint.


Good call on the gel stain, I forgot how handy that stuff is. Probably a little bit better at covering up the old stain color so everything blends a bit better huh? I seem to remember the gel Stains have a bit more sheen to them, or still need a clear coat?


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

fromthenorthwest said:


> Good call on the gel stain, I forgot how handy that stuff is. Probably a little bit better at covering up the old stain color so everything blends a bit better huh? I seem to remember the gel Stains have a bit more sheen to them, or still need a clear coat?


Gel stain still requires a clear coat, they do have some urethane in them though. Spreading the stain out then dry brushing with a soft china bristle works well and pretty easy


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

Joe67 said:


> You didn't give a whole lot of context here on the scale of the job or what, exactly, you need to accomplish. But - and I don't mean to be a downer - but these jobs are a nightmare no matter what. This is especially the case if you're expected to match stuff rather than re-doing it all. And if redoing it all - also a nightmare.
> 
> Any chance you can just talk them into painting them instead...? But the time you're done mucking around, only one of two things will have happened. One is that you have lost your shirt, finally said "sorry, it's as good as it will get," and they're still not happy. The second is that if you don't lose your shirt, they'll wish they just ordered replacements or had you paint them once they see the bill.


Hey Joe you're right sorry there was really no context there. I've got a job coming up where they'd like pretty much the whole trim pack redone. Knowing what a pain in the ass that can be, I told them I would just try to do a couple inconspicuous pieces and see how they turn out, before I give them an estimate, and to make sure they are going to be satisfied with the result. I'm doing all the walls and ceilings on this job too, so if they don't like how the trim samples turns out no big deal.

The cabinet picture included is just a one-off, and he's just hoping for a little cleanup, it's just a little side work to the main job I'm doing. 

Luckily I haven't been sucked into a job (yet) where I'm just refinishing a full stained trim pack. However if there is a good method for it I wouldn't mind adding it to my skill set.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

fromthenorthwest said:


> I'm pretty green in this area. Most of what I've done is entire window sills, where it's easy to sand it down to bare wood and re-stain and clear coat. I'm curious how some of you who do these often like to go at these jobs?
> 
> Plan is to find the closest stain match, scuff sand, and re-stain the whole piece. Then polyurethane. Seems relatively straightforward, just wondering any good tips, pointers, things to watch out for? Previous thread I should go look at so as to not waste everyone's time?
> 
> ...


Are you trying to touch-up existing stain, or thinking about a complete restoration? 

looking at the cabinet, looks like it might need to go back to raw wood, but that would be a lot of work if you were considering all the trim.

I’ve rarely had good luck touching up stained wood like that, especially if it was originally a sprayed finish. Interested to see other answers.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Holland said:


> Are you trying to touch-up existing stain, or thinking about a complete restoration?
> 
> looking at the cabinet, looks like it might need to go back to raw wood, but that would be a lot of work if you were considering all the trim.
> 
> I’ve rarely had good luck touching up stained wood like that, especially if it was originally a sprayed finish. Interested to see other answers.


It would be a lot of work, if it had to be all the way down to bare wood and a restain. Gel staining over existing I have just taken it down mostly to bare with 150 then straight over with gel stain using a dry brushing technique. 24 hours dry then used lenmar fast dry sealer then lenmar oil poly dull rubbed.

Anything more than that and I would probably suggest just replacing


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

the way the clear is chipping leads me to think it is a lacquer. if its a tinted lacquer, I just find that the touch up stain is always too dark. 
Gel stain sits on the surface more, so its worth a try.


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

Holland said:


> Are you trying to touch-up existing stain, or thinking about a complete restoration?
> 
> looking at the cabinet, looks like it might need to go back to raw wood, but that would be a lot of work if you were considering all the trim.
> 
> I’ve rarely had good luck touching up stained wood like that, especially if it was originally a sprayed finish. Interested to see other answers.


So the cabinet was just kind of a one-off. The first picture is more of the type of thing I'm trying to refinish. Something in the area of a light coat of stain over everything to blend followed by a fresh clear coat was what i was thinking.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Sometimes you can get lucky in matching the old stain but many times the problem is with this bad areas taking the stain differently. The result is a less than stellar looking job. And when it comes to refinishing, there are many ways to proceed but the more I have experimented the more I come back to the old tried and true one. IMO, if you really want to end up with the best looking job then sand down to bare wood, restain (I too like Old Masters), then clear coat with the product of choice (if you have access to Target brand coatings, give them a try Miller carries it or can order it in). No short cuts involved but I have found that farting around trying to minimize the amount of actual repairing sometimes ends up wasting more time that just getting down to it as described above. Another plus is that once you have your process down you will be able to replicate it throughout the job thereby attaining consistency.
Check out a recent thread I started about a cabinet job I finished not too long ago: Happiness is...


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Here's a couple pics of some samples I did for a client, with Old Masters Gel Stain. Espresso. To me, those just look like yellowed polyurethane. Either way, ya it's doable, but a darker colour may hide the imperfections better. As RH said, the bare spots will take the stain differently. I wonder if hitting the bare wood with a sanding sealer first would help with that..?


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

What about tinting some poly and then spraying it?

edit:
I’ve never had an issue with oil poly being compatible for touch up over lacquer- we touch up a lot of windows that have damaged lacquer.

You said you like water-based, not sure if that would work the same way, but I know for sure that oil stain can be mixed into oil poly. Seems to dry without any problems, and can be coated multiple times, or just cleared over with straight poly...


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

RH said:


> Sometimes you can get lucky in matching the old stain but many times the problem is with this bad areas taking the stain differently. The result is a less than stellar looking job. And when it comes to refinishing, there are many ways to proceed but the more I have experimented the more I come back to the old tried and true one. IMO, if you really want to end up with the best looking job then sand down to bare wood, restain (I too like Old Masters), then clear coat with the product of choice (if you have access to Target brand coatings, give them a try Miller carries it or can order it in). No short cuts involved but I have found that farting around trying to minimize the amount of actual repairing sometimes ends up wasting more time that just getting down to it as described above. Another plus is that once you have your process down you will be able to replicate it throughout the job thereby attaining consistency.
> Check out a recent thread I started about a cabinet job I finished not too long ago: Happiness is...


Interesting and informative thread. Nice work too! Sounds to me like I need a festool. Right now i have a poor man's festool setup with a dewalt square hooked up to shop vac, although it has made pretty short work of flat sills. I wonder if you were to attempt a similar undertaking on profiled objects, (molding etc) would festool have attachments for that type of thing or would you be better off going for a?chemical strip (or maybe by that point replacement is the ticket)


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Here's a couple pics of some samples I did for a client, with Old Masters Gel Stain. Espresso. To me, those just look like yellowed polyurethane. Either way, ya it's doable, but a darker colour may hide the imperfections better. As RH said, the bare spots will take the stain differently. I wonder if hitting the bare wood with a sanding sealer first would help with that..?


Fine work there. Like the look of that espresso. I hadn't thought about going darker with color but if I was doing the whole pack that is a good idea to keep in mind.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

fromthenorthwest said:


> Interesting and informative thread. Nice work too! Sounds to me like I need a festool. Right now i have a poor man's festool setup with a dewalt square hooked up to shop vac, although it has made pretty short work of flat sills. I wonder if you were to attempt a similar undertaking on profiled objects, (molding etc) would festool have attachments for that type of thing or would you be better off going for a?chemical strip (or maybe by that point replacement is the ticket)


Festool is great, but for detailed profiles it will be limited. 
Some here have made their own custom sanding blocks based on the profile of the trim. Can’t recall the exact process or material used to create the block(s) but maybe somebody who does will weigh in.
Not a fan of chemical stripping myself - messy and sanding is still usually required. But hopefully someone who does like doing it will also chime in.


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

Holland said:


> What about tinting some poly and then spraying it?
> 
> edit:
> I’ve never had an issue with oil poly being compatible for touch up over lacquer- we touch up a lot of windows that have damaged lacquer.
> ...


Would that be similar to the minwax polyshades sort of product? I know I've heard that stuff is not that great but it's been ages since I've used it.


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## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

fromthenorthwest said:


> Would that be similar to the minwax polyshades sort of product? I know I've heard that stuff is not that great but it's been ages since I've used it.


Yeah, polyshades is basically tinted poly. And once you're into it, you're not so much "staining" as faux finishing. Same with laying the gel stains overtop of stuff. True staining is ... well, literally staining. You need fresh, clean, bare wood so that the stain soaks into the wood and literally leaves a "stain" in it. The other ways are just window dressing. But once you have old stuff that's been compromised, without a full strip/sand-down (as RH said) you're out of the world of stain and into faux finish. It's lipstick on a pig. Which is not to say that it can't still look good.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

fromthenorthwest said:


> Would that be similar to the minwax polyshades sort of product? I know I've heard that stuff is not that great but it's been ages since I've used it.


There’s probably a better solution out there, but I just use the method I know. When tinting poly. I use Last n Last and Zar (I think) most often, but SW carries Minwax poly and stains- have used those as well. Easy to spray with HVLP, then run a little OMS through to clean it. Any of the long oil stains and oil poly should work.

I repair quite a few damaged windows each year. Guys around here love to use lacquer, and 10 years later I get a call to repair a few areas- usually windows and kitchens/ bathrooms. 

People close their blinds all winter to help insulate, but it causes condensation, which in turn causes the lacquer to fail. Also UV makes it brittle, and sometimes turns milky as well, that is especially difficult to match. Usually most of the windows in a home fail about the same time, so we will go through and refurbish all the windows in the house. The HO is usually looking for a fix that looks good, but costs less than new windows... so we try to make it look unnoticeable to anyone but a trained eye. Sometimes possible, other times not.

We end up sanding off the chipped and failing finish -usually the sill and a few inches up the sides. We feather it into existing clear, or clear the entire frame if we can’t match the sheen. Poly is a durable, UV resistant finish that is appropriate for use on windows. It is also resistant to moisture and expansion/contraction. It is easy to apply with a brush, rubbed, or sprayed. Occasionally we get a tinted lacquer, and stain doesn’t match, that’s when we will sometimes try tinting the poly...

*you can custom match the stain color, and then add as much or as little stain as needed. Or build up layers gradually with very lightly tinted poly, until you get the correct color, etc...


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## celicaxx (May 29, 2015)

I'm one of the few Polyshades fans here, and do like the stuff. I've never sprayed it, but brushing it is sort of like brushing translucent oil based paint, not like brushing something like Spar Urethane. So there's possibilities for brush strokes and the like to show up. The solids at the bottom of the can always need to be stirred in pretty well, too. I'm assuming you could spray it fine, but again it would probably need to be sprayed like an oil based paint, too. They say not to reduce it, either, but I'm not sure how much that matters.

Polyshades's problem is it can only go darker, it can't really match or lighten something.





__





One-Step Stain & Finish







www.minwax.com




This explains what to expect at what shade you pick to what you're going over. 



> • PolyShades® Honey Pine and Classic Oak will not have a lot of impact on the existing color, but will help cover up imperfections in an old, worn finish, while providing a layer of protection.


Those are basically the yellow tinted ones.

In your case probably the best covering color without drastically changing it probably would be pecan.


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