# Repaint Kitchen Cabinets



## JoseyWales (Jan 8, 2011)

What's everyone using these days for repainting {Spraying} Kitchen cabinets?


Overtop regular lacquer.


Favorite primer?

Finish coat?

I have an airless and a 4 stage HVLP...Would prefer to use airless..Plan on spraying doors in shop and carcass on sight.

Anyone have any luck spraying Cabinet Coat with an airless?

Open to suggestions....


----------



## ROOMINADAY (Mar 20, 2009)

I had great luck with Advance. Used my 440i and a 411ff. Looks like glass. We brushed the boxes on site - it leveled so well it looks sprayed on the boxes.

We used insulex oil primer. Did not sand easy but it friggen sticks! So does the WB!


----------



## Delta Painting (Apr 27, 2010)

I do the same as above only I use O'Leary stain ceramic...


----------



## JoseyWales (Jan 8, 2011)

ROOMINADAY said:


> I had great luck with Advance. Used my 440i and a 411ff. Looks like glass. We brushed the boxes on site - it leveled so well it looks sprayed on the boxes.
> 
> We used insulex oil primer. Did not sand easy but it friggen sticks! So does the WB!


There's an island with some shelves along with the cabinet carcass to paint..I'd like to spray a primer and 2 coats of a finish paint in one day if possible...I hate to leave the kitchen in a mess 2 days in a row...I've used the Advance before and it runs like crazy,even when brushing it...I hate brushing that much cabinetry.

Also this is going over an old lacquer finish..You need to prime that with a waterborne,not an oil.


----------



## ROOMINADAY (Mar 20, 2009)

JoseyWales said:


> There's an island with some shelves along with the cabinet carcass to paint..I'd like to spray a primer and 2 coats of a finish paint in one day if possible...I hate to leave the kitchen in a mess 2 days in a row...I've used the Advance before and it runs like crazy,even when brushing it...I hate brushing that much cabinetry.
> 
> Also this is going over an old lacquer finish..You need to prime that with a waterborne,not an oil.


We have mastered the Advance curve, I wanted to quit painting forever the 1st time I used it!

What is the recoat time on Cabinet Coat? You can use Insulex oil (cant remember the name) as a bond coat over lacquer. Next time I will use their WB Stix, I have used a few gallons in the past few weeks and it dries as fast as a solvent and sticks like crazy!


----------



## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Using next generation proclassic on a kitchen right now. Adhesion primer for prime coat. Advantage is its WB. Disadvantage is a 14 day cure time. With adhesion resistance at the tail end of cure. Straight over lacquer though, just don't go filling the cabs with heavy objects the same week. Using a 413 on doors and drawers, they have the sheen closer to right in this new series. Levels great. 

Third kitchen repaint that I have used SW adhesion primer instead of oil and happy with results.


----------



## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

Paradigmzz said:


> Using next generation proclassic on a kitchen right now. Adhesion primer for prime coat. Advantage is its WB. Disadvantage is a 14 day cure time. With adhesion resistance at the tail end of cure. Straight over lacquer though, just don't go filling the cabs with heavy objects the same week. Using a 413 on doors and drawers, they have the sheen closer to right in this new series. Levels great.
> 
> Third kitchen repaint that I have used SW adhesion primer instead of oil and happy with results.


Whats the recoat time on the adhesion primer? ive seen the product in my sherwin store i havent tried it yet been curious though. Do you wait 14 days for it to fully cure before you lay down your finish coat(s)? have you tried sanding it before you lay down the finish? how does it sand?


----------



## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

StripandCaulk said:


> Whats the recoat time on the adhesion primer? ive seen the product in my sherwin store i havent tried it yet been curious though. Do you wait 14 days for it to fully cure before you lay down your finish coat(s)? have you tried sanding it before you lay down the finish? how does it sand?


Only a thin coat needed. I use a x11 tip. Dries fast, sands good. Won't pass a scratch test immediately but not to worry. You can top coat right away but it needs time to cure, regardless if it is exposed or not. 

Random trivia for an example. SW dtm is bullet proof after full cure. I think it is in the 14 to 20 day cure range. If you shoot some doors with it and come back a week later, chances are you can peel it off in sheets if the mil thickness is great enough. Let it cure fully and you couldn't get it off for anything. The tail end of the cure time is when the adhesion becomes most pronounced.


----------



## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

cool good to know thanks man:thumbsup: i know with some waterborne bonding primers if you sand right away it will take it right off. im going to try giving it a shot next time around


----------



## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

JoseyWales said:


> What's everyone using these days for repainting {Spraying} Kitchen cabinets?
> 
> Overtop regular lacquer.
> 
> ...


Hi JoseyWales
Just finished a huge cabinet job using Cabinet Coat, went over maple cabs done in cleAr lacquer new about ten years ago. We cleaned with KRud Kutter Gloss Off, sAnded with 220, wiped down with alcohol rags, and used the CC as the primer coat. That being said, I don't recommend that approach. We had a lot of problems with fish eye. Next time I would clean with tsp substitute, rinse with hot water, repeat, then let dry. Sand, probably 180 instead of 220. Then Prime with BIN. I think priming with BIN is the best protocol when painting kitchen cabinets. I only applied one coat of CC per day, so I can't comment on pushing their 6 hour recoat time. My clients loved the final result, but even after sanding out of fish eye problems and priming them with bin, I had some weird really small fish eyes throughout the wet film. They went away when the coating dried. I used a Graco ff 310 tip on medium pressure. Had goods control, and cranked up the heater, so had almost zero runs. Insl-x has really weird suggestions for spraying with an airless. They suggest like a 519 tip so that you are not atomizing the coating. They talk about using too small a tip possibly putting air bubbles in the finish, and maybe that is what I wAs seeing in my coating. I would never try using a 519 tip on cabs. Personally, after shooting the BIN with my 3 stage accuspray hvlp to repair the fish eye problems, I loved the control of the hvlp so much I'm considering getting a 5 or 6 stage unit so I can shoot the finish coat with it as well.


----------



## paintpro08 (Jun 21, 2008)

If you are thinking of a 5 or 6 stage turbine, the Apollo 1050VR with it's variable speed control gives maximum control


----------



## JoseyWales (Jan 8, 2011)

Damon T said:


> Hi JoseyWales
> Just finished a huge cabinet job using Cabinet Coat, went over maple cabs done in cleAr lacquer new about ten years ago. We cleaned with KRud Kutter Gloss Off, sAnded with 220, wiped down with alcohol rags, and used the CC as the primer coat. That being said, I don't recommend that approach. We had a lot of problems with fish eye. Next time I would clean with tsp substitute, rinse with hot water, repeat, then let dry. Sand, probably 180 instead of 220. Then Prime with BIN. I think priming with BIN is the best protocol when painting kitchen cabinets. I only applied one coat of CC per day, so I can't comment on pushing their 6 hour recoat time. My clients loved the final result, but even after sanding out of fish eye problems and priming them with bin, I had some weird really small fish eyes throughout the wet film. They went away when the coating dried. I used a Graco ff 310 tip on medium pressure. Had goods control, and cranked up the heater, so had almost zero runs. Insl-x has really weird suggestions for spraying with an airless. They suggest like a 519 tip so that you are not atomizing the coating. They talk about using too small a tip possibly putting air bubbles in the finish, and maybe that is what I wAs seeing in my coating. I would never try using a 519 tip on cabs. Personally, after shooting the BIN with my 3 stage accuspray hvlp to repair the fish eye problems, I loved the control of the hvlp so much I'm considering getting a 5 or 6 stage unit so I can shoot the finish coat with it as well.


My next investment will be for a Kremlin EOS 30:1 air assisted airless sprayer...I want a sprayer capable of laying down the nicest finish,especially water based lacquers,with minimal f'n around to set it up..My HVLP is a 4 stage and I can't dial it in properly for acrylics or WB lacquers...Maybe the 6 stage will work for you...good luck....If i had to choose I'd buy a Graco AAA over a 6 stage HVLP.


----------



## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

JoseyWales said:


> My next investment will be for a Kremlin EOS 30:1 air assisted airless sprayer...I want a sprayer capable of laying down the nicest finish,especially water based lacquers,with minimal f'n around to set it up..My HVLP is a 4 stage and I can't dial it in properly for acrylics or WB lacquers...Maybe the 6 stage will work for you...good luck....If i had to choose I'd buy a Graco AAA over a 6 stage HVLP.


Air assisted is the way to go:thumbsup: i dont use my hvlp anymore for lacquers/varnishes.


----------



## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Thanks for the input on sprayers guys!


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

He seemed like a decent enough guy to me...


----------



## Contractor Jeff (Apr 8, 2011)

I haven't posted here in awhile, I just blew by. Forgive my jumping in with whatever, I'm probably out of touch.

The rough grains of the cheaper stain/lacquer cabinet jobs from the past 30 years aren't as sealed as cabinets are now 

Bulls-Eye 1-2-3 does a great job on newer well sealed grain face cabinets. Not so with thousands of dark wood grained condo cabinets $till out there needing painting over. Maybe everyone's dark cabinets have been painted out by now, but hey, you know what? They looked nice painted out.


----------



## Dschadt (Aug 21, 2011)

I couldn't imagine doing cabinets with an airless. You guys must be a lot more skilled than I am. aaa maybe. I use hvlp. If you get a 5 or 6 stage it's not too slow.


----------



## KEEGS (Nov 26, 2009)

Just finished a full kitchen...the cabinets were clear cherry. We sprayed the doors and drawer fronts off site with our airless set up with a 310 Graco FF tip. We sprayed the boxes on site using zip walls to protect the rest of the home. We did normal prep work, thoroughly wiped down all cabinets with Krud Kutter, primed with WB Stix, and finished with Alkyd Satin Impervo. The customer (and neighbors) can not believe these were not done in a factory. I love waterborne products as much as the next guy...but the Satin Impervo looked insane, and it dried down quickly to a true satin finish. I will note that we were shooting an off white, close to linen white, which may help offset the normal yellowing. We had the good fortune of vacationing homeowners, and emptied cabinets. We will more than likely start dabbling with BM Advance, as it seems to be producing some extraordinary results. On a side note, I have found the Satin Impervo (oil) honey hole. A small local hardware store is still selling Satin Impervo @ $38.00 a gallon...and it is not old stock...! The Stix is pretty insane as well, it sands like oil, and has unbelievable bonding properties. And FYI, shooting with an airless is a piece of cake, sprayed the Impervo straight up...it grabs, and stays put. You would have to try really hard to create some hangers...


----------



## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Awesome dude. Keep it up with that oil.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

KEEGS said:


> ....We sprayed the doors and drawer fronts off site with our airless set up with a 310 Graco FF tip....


Only curious... any certain reason for a 3 vs 2?


----------



## KEEGS (Nov 26, 2009)

Nothing specific regarding 3vs2...I just dig the 3, and it is what I am most comfortable with. I especially like the 3 for spraying all the large upper doors. That is not to say it is the best choice for everyone.


----------



## mpminter (Mar 21, 2011)

@Keegan, have you tried Advance yet? It drips and runs like crazy but the stuff looks and feels like a true oil. I've only sprayed it once and the results were disastrous!! Some of the guys here spray it regularly and have it down pat, I just don't have the skills I guess


----------



## ROOMINADAY (Mar 20, 2009)

Here is another kitchen we started yesterday. Odorless Zinsser and Advance.


----------



## mpminter (Mar 21, 2011)

Do you do a tack coat when spraying Advance? and if so, how long do you let it set up before shooting the second coat?


----------



## ROOMINADAY (Mar 20, 2009)

mpminter said:


> Do you do a tack coat when spraying Advance? and if so, how long do you let it set up before shooting the second coat?


I spray them flat but I give them a decent but not heavy pass....no runs. When I hit the fronts I will do three light passes so the edges dont build up and run away. I wait min16 hours for spraying and brushing, sometimes it needs more to sand to powder. I will try a tack coat on the fronts because I need to speed this up. I have a dehumidifier running in the shop to help. A 411ff does a nice job.

I sprayed some spindles with a proshot once....losts of sanding....


----------



## KEEGS (Nov 26, 2009)

Have not dabbled with the Advance...although after reading so many posts about it, I may just have to start seeing what all the hype is about. It seems from the posts that BM has been reformulating the advance in an effort to decrease sagging/curtain problems. I am definitely interested....I am sure with a little practice I will pick up on the learning curve, and maybe say adios to the oil.


----------



## Finn (Dec 18, 2011)

I am paint cabinet doors to morrow, and only the faces of the boxes, it is spec for SW Duration brush coated, I will be cleaning and using a deglosser, ( any reccommendations for that? Bullseye 123 sounds like the best primer approach


----------



## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Finn said:


> I am paint cabinet doors to morrow, and only the faces of the boxes, it is spec for SW Duration brush coated, I will be cleaning and using a deglosser, ( any reccommendations for that? Bullseye 123 sounds like the best primer approach



My recommendations are to not use Duration for a cabinet paint. Are they stain grade currently or paint? Are they oil or latex if paint, and on hinge or off? A deglosser for chemical etch? The primer because of oil or for mechanical bond?


----------



## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

I can think of roughly 29 paints I would use on cabinets before Duration. Scratch that, make it 30....no, 31....Seriously, who specc'd Duration? Was it the name that got them? Pricey wall paint. If its specc'd its specc'd I guess, but I would maybe try to educate the customer a bit. Its not the end of the world, but, man, there are waaaay better paints for that job.


----------



## TERRY365PAINTER (Jul 26, 2009)

Advance semi gloss


----------



## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

That looks great!


----------



## ROOMINADAY (Mar 20, 2009)

Looks Great Terry. What did you prime with and what did you spray them with?

Sent from my GT-I9000M using Paint Talk


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Awesome work Terry.


----------



## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

ROOMINADAY said:


> Looks Great Terry. What did you prime with and what did you spray them with?
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9000M using Paint Talk


Yeah they look great...My guess is he used BM Advance gloss.


----------



## ROOMINADAY (Mar 20, 2009)

I meant what spray unit!


----------



## TERRY365PAINTER (Jul 26, 2009)

Semi gloss advance , 3 coats front . I think I use a FF tip 311 and 440 Titan . 
I love doing cabinets . Cons with advance make sure you let them dry good before flipping them over . The dry time is good with advance . But the cure time is something to think about . I ended up running drywall screws through 1/2 's 
Or 2/2 then setting them up on blocks to stack doors . So I could spray both sides . It was may in Austin when I sprayed them . 80 maybe low humility . The cure time takes days maybe weeks 
For them to fully cure .


----------



## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

TERRY365PAINTER said:


> Semi gloss advance , 3 coats front . I think I use a FF tip 311 and 440 Titan .
> I love doing cabinets . Cons with advance make sure you let them dry good before flipping them over . The dry time is good with advance . But the cure time is something to think about . I ended up running drywall screws through 1/2 's
> Or 2/2 then setting them up on blocks to stack doors . So I could spray both sides . It was may in Austin when I sprayed them . 80 maybe low humility . The cure time takes days maybe weeks
> For them to fully cure .


I have a wire dry rack and waited about 3 days to flip the doors when using advance. it's a damn tough finish after it is cured!

do you have a picture of that drying set-up? i can't visualize your method.

do you use a 2"x2" piece of wood as wide as the door,run 2" drywall screws through it and then mount it to the top and bottom of the doors (while leaving a gap so you can hit the top and bottom)? and then stack them on top of each-other? i suppose you still need to fill in the screw holes after they are dry?

did you spray one side at a time ,stack them all,let it set up ,and spray the other sides?


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

TERRY365PAINTER said:


> Semi gloss advance , 3 coats front . I think I use a FF tip 311 and 440 Titan .
> I love doing cabinets . Cons with advance make sure you let them dry good before flipping them over . The dry time is good with advance . But the cure time is something to think about . I ended up running drywall screws through 1/2 's
> Or 2/2 then setting them up on blocks to stack doors . So I could spray both sides . It was may in Austin when I sprayed them . 80 maybe low humility . The cure time takes days maybe weeks
> For them to fully cure .


Our climate is close to the same, and is why I can't use advance in the summer and spring. 

Sucks because I love it, but no way can I wait weeks for doors to cure before I flip them, and then weeks before I can transport and install.


----------



## TERRY365PAINTER (Jul 26, 2009)

I don't about you , I have everything schedule to to be ready for the next step. I just had issues with things being hard enough to be flipped over 
For the next side to be painted . After 2 coats of of that side I noticed ; marks showing up from laying on the racks .erecta rack and ladders with paper . Lines showing up. on the back side . With over 24 hrs of dry time between sides . That's sucks . Extra day spraying again


----------



## TERRY365PAINTER (Jul 26, 2009)

Not as cool as bills , but works for small to medium size doors . I also ran drywall screws through them to keep from sitting flat . 
Plus it was cheap to put together.


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I built a decent rack, and even used backer rod to soften them. I had to start using cabinet coat. Two weeks is just to long a cure time before they harden.


----------



## ROOMINADAY (Mar 20, 2009)

I use a dehumidifier in the shop. Once the Advance drys in a couple of hours, I put a fan on them, moving air between the erectaracks. I have the ocassional blocking issue with Advance.

Sent from my GT-I9000M using Paint Talk


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Jeff its been the wettest spring and summer I can remember here. Not a day below 80% humidity here in many days now. 

My shop isn't sealed enough for a dehumidifier to work. I would need a really large one, or a small room to roll the rack into.


----------



## ROOMINADAY (Mar 20, 2009)

I remember how humid it got in Matthews, NC! We have had a dry summer so far. It was humid here today!

Zip wall off am area?

Sent from my GT-I9000M using Paint Talk


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

It might be possible with some blue board on the ceiling, the rafters are open. I need a new space all together.


----------



## Painter One (Feb 5, 2012)

Dschadt said:


> I couldn't imagine doing cabinets with an airless. You guys must be a lot more skilled than I am. aaa maybe. I use hvlp. If you get a 5 or 6 stage it's not too slow.


A fine finish tip helps a lot with this---


----------



## northcountrypainter (Dec 7, 2012)

We do quite a bit of cabinet refinishing. After carefull cleaning and sanding, we will prime w either BIN or a quality acrylic bonding primer. BIN is helpful for stain sealing on some woods, and also works better to avoid fisheyes. We finish cabinets w waterborne lacquer because of quick cure time and near perfect appearance. We spray doors in shop and mask and spray boxes in place.


----------



## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

northcountrypainter said:


> We do quite a bit of cabinet refinishing. After carefull cleaning and sanding, we will prime w either BIN or a quality acrylic bonding primer. BIN is helpful for stain sealing on some woods, and also works better to avoid fisheyes. We finish cabinets w waterborne lacquer because of quick cure time and near perfect appearance. We spray doors in shop and mask and spray boxes in place.


what's your favourite waterborne lacquer? do you add retarder? right now i'm fooling around with some zenith by valspar. results are pretty good so far.


----------



## MonPeintre.ca (Feb 17, 2011)

ROOMINADAY said:


> I had great luck with Advance. Used my 440i and a 411ff. Looks like glass. We brushed the boxes on site - it leveled so well it looks sprayed on the boxes.
> 
> We used insulex oil primer. Did not sand easy but it friggen sticks! So does the WB!


Is it better to brush the box or use a mini roller?


----------



## ROOMINADAY (Mar 20, 2009)

MonPeintre.ca said:


> Is it better to brush the box or use a mini roller?


We mini-rolled boxes and tipped off with a brush. Advance levels nice. A whizz may leave a little too much stipple even with advance. I never tried a foam roller - Advance would go on so thin with a mini foam you would need 4 coats.

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Paint Talk


----------



## HJ61 (Nov 14, 2011)

I think I'll have to get into cabinet refinishing more, probably pretty good roi once you get a system down. I can start with mine! I found that cabinet coat does not cover very well though.


----------



## paintcore.ca (Apr 5, 2010)

HJ61 said:


> I think I'll have to get into cabinet refinishing more, probably pretty good roi once you get a system down. I can start with mine! I found that cabinet coat does not cover very well though.


Cabinet finishing is a awesome service to specialize in. But you gotta be in it for the long and expensive haul. To make good cash doing it you really gotta refine your system. Took us two years to nail down a system that I was happy with. The over head is a lot more then doing re paints. Shop rent, heat, (this month $700), sand paper can get crazy, tons of rags, racking, compressor, clean air system, dedicated rigs, spray booth if you want to do them really fast and good quality is essential. We just installed a new sink,insurance, and so on. Then there is all the on site equipment and logistics which most painters are used to. But once you lay down the ground work. Invest the money in the right places you can do a huge volume of work really fast and make a great profit. I love doing it, and really like having a shop to work from. As a Painter that was always a dream of mine.


----------



## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

paintcore.ca said:


> Cabinet finishing is a awesome service to specialize in. But you gotta be in it for the long and expensive haul. To make good cash doing it you really gotta refine your system. Took us two years to nail down a system that I was happy with. The over head is a lot more then doing re paints. Shop rent, heat, (this month $700), sand paper can get crazy, tons of rags, racking, compressor, clean air system, dedicated rigs, spray booth if you want to do them really fast and good quality is essential. We just installed a new sink,insurance, and so on. Then there is all the on site equipment and logistics which most painters are used to. But once you lay down the ground work. Invest the money in the right places you can do a huge volume of work really fast and make a great profit. I love doing it, and really like having a shop to work from. As a Painter that was always a dream of mine.


is there a big demand for that kind of service? how do you market yourself if i may ask? i'm just laying the groundwork now but have a long way to go before i can afford a shop. right now i'm using a basement room to spray the cabinet doors. i just invested in a kremlin sprayer,compressor and graco 395 finish pro. i'm relatively new to fine finishing but have sprayed exteriors and ceilings for years with an airless. it would be nice to spray the doors on wire hangars like the factories do but i don't have the space. i'm limited to spraying one side at a time and drying them on a rack.


----------



## paintcore.ca (Apr 5, 2010)

Xmark said:


> is there a big demand for that kind of service? how do you market yourself if i may ask? i'm just laying the groundwork now but have a long way to go before i can afford a shop. right now i'm using a basement room to spray the cabinet doors. i just invested in a kremlin sprayer,compressor and graco 395 finish pro. i'm relatively new to fine finishing but have sprayed exteriors and ceilings for years with an airless. it would be nice to spray the doors on wire hangars like the factories do but i don't have the space. i'm limited to spraying one side at a time and drying them on a rack.


In my neck of the woods there is a good market for this service. The problem is educating the public. Lots of people don't know that a service like ours exists. Or they don't believe it can be done with factory sprayed results, until they see a sample. Or they say "i have been looking for a service like yours but had a hard time finding you". The Internet and word of mouth has been our greatest asset in terms of marketing. Contractors and designers use us a lot to. We really try to specialize in this so I have stopped all our regular painting service advertising and just market the refinishing side now. I still take on re-paints and commercial re-paints but only from past clients. 

We spray everything vertical and hang to dry. But you need space that's for sure. We still use hafele racks for certain stuff. 

Packaging and delivery is so important too!


----------



## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

nice setup! I also own a hafele rack. can you show a closeup of the hook/hangar? is it attached to the hinge holes or did you drill holes on the side? yeah i agree,you have to put a lot of thought into the shipping method.


----------



## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

@ paintcore. . . are those euro hinge compression fitted hangers for the doors? Are they custom?


----------



## paintcore.ca (Apr 5, 2010)

http://www.fastcap.com/estore/pc/Euro-Hinge-Finishing-Clip-3p10005.htm 

Sorry for the delayed response. This is a link for the clips I use to spray and hang doors. There great for most doors. I would say 80%. We just finished a kitchen that were really heavy large solid maple raised panel doors. 2 doors slipped off the clips, had to repair one. You gotta be careful sometimes.


----------



## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Rockler has some hinge hangers that look like they may be more heavy duty. 

This link is for their universal fitting one, not their euro one. Much more expensive than the one paintcore listed. 
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=21448&site=ROCKLER

I like the quick install feature of paintcore's hangers.


----------



## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

Damon T said:


> Rockler has some hinge hangers that look like they may be more heavy duty.
> 
> This link is for their universal fitting one, not their euro one. Much more expensive than the one paintcore listed.
> http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=21448&site=ROCKLER
> ...


do you see the little bit that was missed behind the hangar because the hook was in the way?


----------



## TERRY365PAINTER (Jul 26, 2009)

I am also trying to get into this market as well.

The door rack painter set up looks good .
I would have a hard time setting something like that up in somebody's garage . Hanging them 
For clear coats would be great . Advance Bm 
Would be a pain . 
I am doing the biggest cab job right now 49 doors stain and poly . General finishes 
Water based stain and poly .


----------



## A+HomeWork (Dec 10, 2010)

paintcore.ca said:


> Cabinet finishing is a awesome service to specialize in. But you gotta be in it for the long and expensive haul. To make good cash doing it you really gotta refine your system. Took us two years to nail down a system that I was happy with. The over head is a lot more then doing re paints. Shop rent, heat, (this month $700), sand paper can get crazy, tons of rags, racking, compressor, clean air system, dedicated rigs, spray booth if you want to do them really fast and good quality is essential. We just installed a new sink,insurance, and so on. Then there is all the on site equipment and logistics which most painters are used to. But once you lay down the ground work. Invest the money in the right places you can do a huge volume of work really fast and make a great profit. I love doing it, and really like having a shop to work from. As a Painter that was always a dream of mine.


It's not often I just get plumb giddy over a PT thread, but I looked at a shop yesterday and there's another room where a small paint area could be made. He's really trying to get a small business in there because it's not the biggest sq. ft., but the price is awesome! 15x15 room and a 15X31 with an overhead door, a nice restroom and a ceiling-mounted gas furnace.

Two cabinet guys have approached me about finish spraying and I am NOT confident in my skills yet, nor do I know the products and how they perform in various applications.

PS-I did order the Bob Flexner book on Understanding Finishes, due in soon. Got that suggestion from a PT search earlier. Thanks, PT.


----------



## A+HomeWork (Dec 10, 2010)

Damon T said:


> Rockler has some hinge hangers that look like they may be more heavy duty.
> 
> This link is for their universal fitting one, not their euro one. Much more expensive than the one paintcore listed.
> http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=21448&site=ROCKLER
> ...


Rockler is always high, even though they do have nice products. I think these could be less, personally.


----------



## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

TERRY365PAINTER said:


> I am also trying to get into this market as well.
> 
> The door rack painter set up looks good .
> I would have a hard time setting something like that up in somebody's garage . Hanging them
> ...


Let us know how it goes. I haven't used the General finishes products yet.


----------



## TERRY365PAINTER (Jul 26, 2009)

Well crap I need before and after pics 

The water base stains cover great and are 
Easy to use. Touch is great, penetration is good
Rich color , I tried their envor poly gloss 
Long dry time for wb clear coat . 
Level of sheen seemed pretty low for gloss 
Switch products for the final spray cycle . 
Finish out with Kel-thane 2 gloss bullet proof 
Nice product . One of the best products Kelly Moore makes . 
What a job 49 doors 33 drawers . 
I will get some pics together . 
One of the best cabinet jobs I have ever did . 
Hands still hurt .


----------



## ligboozer (Oct 13, 2009)

Bringing this up for any updates from the cabinet pro's.


----------



## propainterJ (Jan 31, 2011)

When I hang doors,good old fashioned bailing wire does just fine.

If I want to move them around for more space,I use thick gauge electrical wire with an easy access hook bent and looped into it that I grab and hold doors with,it's easier shown then explained ,for me anyway.

But yea,spraying them hangin is the best way to do it,both sides at one time,little lacquer wash at the end if theres overspray.

But yea,bailing wire,electrical wire,sometimes fish hooks,I got a little scar on one ear from the day I walked into my Boss' shop one early morning in Winter some years ago,it was pretty dark in there,and I didnt see the big fishooks hanging at about head level all over the place,I bent down to pick something up and as I stood up and turned,I felt something brush across my temple and all of a sudden rip through my left earlobe.

It kinda stuck for an instant,luckily it was at the very edge and didnt really catch too much flesh,coulda been way worse,but it did bleed a little,didnt hurt that much,but I gotta little notch on my left ear now,no one ever notices,but then again,I have large ears so it kinda blends


----------



## ligboozer (Oct 13, 2009)

propainterJ said:


> When I hang doors,good old fashioned bailing wire does just fine.
> 
> If I want to move them around for more space,I use thick gauge electrical wire with an easy access hook bent and looped into it that I grab and hold doors with,it's easier shown then explained ,for me anyway.
> 
> ...


 
Fish on!


----------



## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Zip walls and zig-zag doors for a garage set up. Works very well.


----------



## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Zoomer said:


> Zip walls and zig-zag doors for a garage set up. Works very well.


 Zip for the Zoomer!


----------



## Masterpiece (Feb 26, 2008)

I have a question: I'm bidding a small kitchen cabinet repaint job for the owner of a salon my wife uses (14 upper/lower doors and 10 pull drawers total). It was painted about 5 years ago and is needing a refresh due to small nicks in the paint down to the wood though no peeling. I tested with denatured alcohol and it pulled some of the paint color off but it wasn't tacky,etc after letting it sit a few seconds, not to mention the finish, feel and hardness reek of oil so I'm looking something durable over oil.

It's an older couple and for them the lingering smell of oil is an issue (and price lol) so I'm strongly leaning toward either ProClassic or PM 200 0 VOC water/alkyd hybrids so that I can simply clean, scuff sand and paint, and hopefully skip the entire primer step. Or there's Cabinet Coat. I plan to remove the doors/drawers and paint, let properly dry, and flip them on sawhorses with long 2x4s and paint the cabinet boxes/faces on site.

As far as durability goes, is there any reason to go with one over the other? This is considering proper prep,etc, how does the finish itself hold up to daily use and needed cleaning? I've been researching threads about this and haven't seen much on long term durability, though I suppose the OPs not having callbacks with the above products would infer that the clients were happy.

I have my SW rep checking on the 200 0 VOC prices right now.

Thanks guys

Jeremy


----------



## Eman On (Sep 29, 2011)

Someone asked my question but i saw no answer. Is there a missed spot behind the hook or is it not really noticable? Also, dont the hooks get all mucked up pretty quick? Not hard to clean? I have avoided trying them because of these concerns, if its not a big deal im going out right away and buying some!


----------



## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

We put the hooks on end of door that's not seen. No missed spot. Hooks are super cheap, come in boxes of 50 or so for a few bucks. Use clothes hanger to hang doors from hooks. Aids in moving etc.


----------



## Eman On (Sep 29, 2011)

Well ill give it a try, be a great way to save some time.


----------



## more_prep (Dec 7, 2009)

If you like Cabinet Coat, you will like California Ultraplate more...covers better, cures harder and smoother, less blocking.
Dark colors.

How much do you all thin your Advance? Just did some tests spraying semi straght out of the can with a Devilbiss Compact gravity gun, 1.4mm tip, trans-tech air cap, 29 psi. Got some minor orange peel. Advance has the typical 90 KU viscosity out of the can, so this is pretty good. But for acceptable results, looks like I need to thin some. I usually thin to between 45 and 60 sec in a Ford 4 cup, but probably don't have to go that far. Don't want the sags. Love the open time so far...


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

85 degrees with 78% humidity here today. We just complete both sides of these oak doors. Amazing for a wb coating, if it were others I have used in the past I would be waiting forever for them to harden.

We can stack and reinstall these in 24 hrs if need be, but with the weather I will wait longer before we handle them. You can't imprint your finger nail after about an hour cure. Just to give you an idea of how hard the coating already is. :thumbsup:

SW Kem aqua low gloss blending white.


----------



## more_prep (Dec 7, 2009)

can't go wrong with kem aqua for cabinets...you will not be disappointed in the hardness and durability, as well as ease of application. door looks great.
Did you use the kem aqua surfacer? KA or KA+?


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Yes we used the surfacer. After cleaning and sanding I would say close to 90% bare oak. We didn't have enough budget to put a lot into prep. 

I would like to have tried out the kem aqua sprayfil. This job was done in KA because we can't get KA+ in singles.


----------



## more_prep (Dec 7, 2009)

Funny, I have been wanting to try out KA sprayfil too.
It's made for smoothing out textured plastic surfaces.
I talked with SW tech support about using it on wood, but
they recommended against it. I have my doubts about this advice. From the TDS it looked promising as a grain filler.
Also for getting rid of stipple without sanding...I'd be interested to hear about any results.

I like the KA better than KA+ for its quicker cure. After a
couple of weeks, the KA+ seems to get just about as hard, but maybe not quite as hard. KA+ surfacer sands a lot easier than KA surfacer, though.


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I think your rep is wrong on that, or the TDS is. 



> For wood substrates requiring a
> primer with additional filling properties,
> Kem Aqua®
> 65P SprayFil is recommended.


I would normally use a mix of primer, and a solvent based grain filler. An acrylic high build primer takes a lot longer to cure to sand. Waiting for cure puts turn arounds out to long for me, with repaints people want their kitchens put back together and functioning. 

SW tech will advise against using the KA primers with other topcoats as well as for anything but new work because they are untested. I have used there primers for everything, and they bond nicely. 

I didn't take a pic, but the shop dog decided to ruin two doors while I was gone for lunch and I have to sand out and recoat. Another great thing is the short sand ability after application, so when something like this happens it can be fixed quickly.


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Aftermath..


I was able to sand and fix them though. This was the bath set for the same clients, different color so I was doing them today. It happened when I went to lunch, and they were still soft.


----------



## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> Aftermath..
> 
> I was able to sand and fix them though. This was the bath set for the same clients, different color so I was doing them today. It happened when I went to lunch, and they were still soft.
> 
> http://imgur.com/UJbl5mZ


You could charge big money for those doggie print doors! That is cutting edge stuff for faux finishing!


----------



## Lazerline (Mar 26, 2012)

I love Advance. I prime with Coverstain then I do a tack coat and let it sit for about 20 min. I have dropped my tip size down to a 209 or 210 which ever I can get, and have been getting really good results. I started with a 313 with horrible results. Then went to a 311 which was better but still seemed to build too much in some spots. I definitely recommend the 209.


----------



## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Lazerline said:


> I love Advance. I prime with Coverstain then I do a tack coat and let it sit for about 20 min. I have dropped my tip size down to a 209 or 210 which ever I can get, and have been getting really good results. I started with a 313 with horrible results. Then went to a 311 which was better but still seemed to build too much in some spots. I definitely recommend the 209.


Try a 4-10 FFT.


----------



## more_prep (Dec 7, 2009)

Xmark said:


> what's your favourite waterborne lacquer? do you add retarder? right now i'm fooling around with some zenith by valspar. results are pretty good so far.


I've tested Zenith and had problems with cracking on MDF. Cured finish
is like many old-style WB lacquers, lot of friction with a fingernail, like
Hydrocote. After testing around seven WB lacquers, I settled on Kem Aqua. 
It costs half as much, sprays with the least defects, and cures to the hardest
finish. Looks great and has a nice feel to it. Sandable in 30 min or so. 
Stackable in less than an hour. AAA works best, but a trans-tech 
gravity gun works well too.

Just tried Advance for the first time. Thinning it about 15% seemed to
help the curtaining, but I still need practice. Still curtains at 3.5 wet mils,
in a few places. Sprayed at at 1200 psi with a Binks AA-1500, 114-0909F 
fine finish tip (409FF). Beautiful finish, looks and flows like oil. Does not
flash off for almost an hour, seems like. I could probably stand to thin it more, 
although it might reduce the gloss. Should have laid it down thinner 
as well, would probably still flow out.


----------



## Lazerline (Mar 26, 2012)

```

```



Damon T said:


> Try a 4-10 FFT.


 I've tried the 410 but I just prefer a smaller fan for the cabs


----------

