# Advice on Spraying Sequence and Choice of Tape



## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

I'm very likely to win a bid on an entire exterior and interior repaint. My helper and I will also install laminate flooring, carpeting, and ceramic tile. Regarding the interior repainting, I am wanting to eliminate as much brush work as possible. The home has been purchased by a realtor and will be unoccupied while the work is being performed.

Some facts:

A drywall guy is going to hang 1/2" drywall over existing paneling and do an orange peel texture. He is replacing ceilings with new drywall and applying a knockdown texture. He will remove door casings and re-install after drywall work. The baseboards will also be removed but we will install new baseboards after flooring is completed. Since all existing carpeting will be replaced, I don't have to worry about covering floors when spraying. We will remove it before spraying.

After masking windows, I was thinking that I should spray/backroll walls first. I would then mask them off with a hand masker and 3m 9 foot plastic. I have always used 3m 1 1/4" blue tape for this, but am wondering would it be better and safer to use yellow frog tape? I think an orange peel texture would not make taping problematic as far as adequate adhesion of tape. I am wondering what a safe minimum cure time is for the paint on the walls before masking? Obviously, I don't want to peel any paint off the walls when removing tape. And would the yellow frog tape stay stuck to the plastic, or would I have issues and would have been better off sticking to the blue tape? 

I wanted to then spray the ceilings, then the doors, then the trim. This would eliminate brush work except for some areas in 2 small closets and a small portion of the kitchen.

I've been using the yellow tape for color changes at accent walls and in situations where I'd normally seal the tape with caulk and have been very happy with the results so far. So does this tape work well with a hand masker? And does my planned spray sequence seem the most efficient? 

I normally spray ceilings, then trim and doors (I mask off only windows, cabinets, counter tops, then some walls to lean the doors against to spray), then cut in and roll. I am burned out with this sequence, and I know it isn't the fastest way.


----------



## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

There's all kinda ways to skin the same cat
I think you tweek ur system as you go. Build on it adjust it, and adjust on the fly too. You go in with a plan yeh but everyone is a wee bit different, depending, 
I don't see any big flaw in ur new or ur old that said. Just do it.


----------



## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

Oden said:


> There's all kinda ways to skin the same cat
> I think you tweek ur system as you go. Build on it adjust it, and adjust on the fly too. You go in with a plan yeh but everyone is a wee bit different, depending,
> I don't see any big flaw in ur new or ur old that said. Just do it.


I figured that I would fall back on the "tried and true" method If I have issues with the new method, but I know the new method would save a lot of labor time if successful...I'd much rather buy a bunch of plastic and tape than cut in everything.


----------



## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

SemiproJohn said:


> I figured that I would fall back on the "tried and true" method If I have issues with the new method, but I know the new method would save a lot of labor time if successful...I'd much rather buy a bunch of plastic and tape than cut in everything.


And ur new plan will work
Try it. What is one house in the grand scheme of a life? 
The tape? I happen to not really like either the blue or yellow or green or whatever else they come out with. White 1" for me, and the next day is usually good to go, I just don't push it down too hard and pull it soon, while its still wet it comes off just fine. No problems at all, but if you let it dry then you just peel it, at a steep angle( again I didn't push it down all too .hard) them fancy tapes I think them hard to work with, forget the extra cost. I don't like em.


----------



## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Hy not try a paint shield. Myself this is how we do it.

Big sprayer starts ceilings, 395 FP follows doing trim. Once both are second coated and dry we tape trim and grab our shield.
Start on walls. We some times use a roller attachment on the big sprayer (2 guns off one sprayer) spray one gun back roll with the other.

I would grab a shield a lot cheaper than tape will be.


----------



## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

Don't know about the spraying stuff, but even though I like the yellow tape, it does sometimes not stick to stuff. Right now I have it on some trim on o job and it isn't sticking to itself in places.


----------



## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

I'm assuming walls, ceilings & trim are going a different paint. FWIW, when it's a Realtor Flip where budget is tight, I urge them to use the same paint for ceilings as woodwork, like a satin or eggshel. When I let em know how much they can save doing it this way, they usually go for it. That way, the ceilings, trim & doors can be sprayed all at once. From there, depending upon your preference, you could either mask the trim, move doors to garage, then spray walls at low pressure, always angled down, staying about 2' from the ceilings, and back-roll each wall as you spray. This method is the most efficient for me when darker wall colors come into play, since it's faster for me to spray a fog on each wall with a FF tip, let it tack, then spray a heavy coat & back-roll. I put it on about 150% when I'm about 2' from the ceiling, which will be plenty of product to paint the wall up real tight when back-rolling. That way, I only have to cut-in walls next to ceiling twice and the rest is sprayed. 

If the Realtor doesn't want ceilings the same paint as trim, I'd still spray ceilings first, then trim, and, (like I stated above), depending upon the wall color, I'll either spray & back-roll walls or brush & roll. Obviously, the level of masking on the trim will depend upon whether the walls will be rolled or sprayed.

Just like Oden said, there's a ton of ways to get to the end result. Maybe if I lived somewhere that had mostly smooth walls, I wouldn't even consider spraying & back-rolling walls on this kind of job, but here in the land of the textures, I've found it to be really fast, and the contrast lines end up perfect.

As far as tape, I really don't know what works best in Florida, given the humidity. IMO, it'd be best answered by one of your fellow Floridians here on PT. All I can tell you is that if you want to play it safe but don't wanna risk the tape blowing-out due to not sticking, you could always tack the initial perimeter with the lower-tack tape, then do the final 1/4" contrast line with a stronger tape, (like 20/20). Since the majority of it would be tacked with the lower-tack, it reduces the chance of pulling paint back off. 

One last thing: if you do decide to spray walls like I was saying, you really have to over-exaggerate the angle on the wall to keep overspray from hitting the ceiling. Like a 45 degree angle downward. For this reason, I've found spraying side-to-side makes it much easier to control the fan and not hit the ceiling. I usually take a 4' in the room, spray the higher part first with the FF tip, and if it's a big wall, switch-out the tip for something way bigger.


----------



## Seth The Painter (Jun 24, 2015)

New way will be faster as you mentioned. Ceilings trim then walls We use a shield also like cd. When I have to tape I like the orange core tape. I never just let my tape sit on anything I pull it while it's wet. Sounds like a very lucrative job for an experienced guy like yourself. Work smarter not harder and you'll be just fine.


----------



## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> I'm assuming walls, ceilings & trim are going a different paint. FWIW, when it's a Realtor Flip where budget is tight, I urge them to use the same paint for ceilings as woodwork, like a satin or eggshel. When I let em know how much they can save doing it this way, they usually go for it. That way, the ceilings, trim & doors can be sprayed all at once. From there, depending upon your preference, you could either mask the trim, move doors to garage, then spray walls at low pressure, always angled down, staying about 2' from the ceilings, and back-roll each wall as you spray. This method is the most efficient for me when darker wall colors come into play, since it's faster for me to spray a fog on each wall with a FF tip, let it tack, then spray a heavy coat & back-roll. I put it on about 150% when I'm about 2' from the ceiling, which will be plenty of product to paint the wall up real tight when back-rolling. That way, I only have to cut-in walls next to ceiling twice and the rest is sprayed.
> 
> If the Realtor doesn't want ceilings the same paint as trim, I'd still spray ceilings first, then trim, and, (like I stated above), depending upon the wall color, I'll either spray & back-roll walls or brush & roll. Obviously, the level of masking on the trim will depend upon whether the walls will be rolled or sprayed.
> 
> ...


Troy,

Thanks for taking the time to go into detail. I'm still not sure how I will end up tackling this, but I think your suggestion about the fine finish tip for spraying below the ceiling is one I'm definitely going to try. Do you normally use a 214 or even a smaller orifice size for this type of application?


----------



## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

SemiproJohn said:


> Troy,
> 
> Thanks for taking the time to go into detail. I'm still not sure how I will end up tackling this, but I think your suggestion about the fine finish tip for spraying below the ceiling is one I'm definitely going to try. Do you normally use a 214 or even a smaller orifice size for this type of application?



Whatever I got laying around. Doesn't really matter too much, as long as the pressure is low. You can start with a smaller one until you're confident you can do it without overspray on ceilings. I'll usually use about a 410, but it's pretty blown out.


----------



## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> Whatever I got laying around. Doesn't really matter too much, as long as the pressure is low. You can start with a smaller one until you're confident you can do it without overspray on ceilings. I'll usually use about a 410, but it's pretty blown out.


What do you do if anything different at the corners of the room, that's the hard spot, you know, to get that corner turn. Ilł sometimes just run a foot or so of 9" paper on one wall in every corner, you know run to that, then start again on the next wall past the paper. Middle of the paper really but you know.

I think the corner hard to get a good average on overspray wize, Quickly. With just a shield. That is where I'm most likely to have a errant shot.


----------



## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

Oden said:


> What do you do if anything different at the corners of the room, that's the hard spot, you know, to get that corner turn. Ilł sometimes just run a foot or so of 9" paper on one wall in every corner, you know run to that, then start again on the next wall past the paper. Middle of the paper really but you know.
> 
> I think the corner hard to get a good average on overspray wize, Quickly. With just a shield. That is where I'm most likely to have a errant shot.



Are you talking about when I'm just spraying walls? If so, I don't do anything other than making sure I carry the paint all the way over to the next wall, since I'm back-rolling it doesn't matter. Not sure if that's what you were talking about.


----------



## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> Are you talking about when I'm just spraying walls? If so, I don't do anything other than making sure I carry the paint all the way over to the next wall, since I'm back-rolling it doesn't matter. Not sure if that's what you were talking about.



I think he's talking about it being harder to shield around an inside or outside corner. Even if you aren't shielding, but angling down and staying back from the top, when you hit an inside corner it's more likely to direct overspray towards the ceiling. 

I've worked out ways to do it with a shield, but masking the half your spraying into is much more certain to reduce mistakes.


----------



## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

Jmayspaint said:


> I think he's talking about it being harder to shield around an inside or outside corner. Even if you aren't shielding, but angling down and staying back from the top, when you hit an inside corner it's more likely to direct overspray towards the ceiling.
> 
> I've worked out ways to do it with a shield, but masking the half your spraying into is much more certain to reduce mistakes.


If that's what he's saying, then what I do to eliminate the chance of getting overspray on the ceiling is to start from each corner. What I've found is that I'm more likely so get overspray if I'm working in towards a corner, vs. just starting at a corner. He, (and you), are absolutely right too...you can be angling down, but still come to a corner and you'll get a dust on the ceiling once in a while. Starting at each corner and working towards the middle, at least on the first few feet closest to the ceiling, works for me.


----------



## beedoola (May 18, 2015)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> I'm assuming walls, ceilings & trim are going a different paint. FWIW, when it's a Realtor Flip where budget is tight, I urge them to use the same paint for ceilings as woodwork, like a satin or eggshel. When I let em know how much they can save doing it this way, they usually go for it. That way, the ceilings, trim & doors can be sprayed all at once. From there, depending upon your preference, you could either mask the trim, move doors to garage, then spray walls at low pressure, always angled down, staying about* 2' *from the ceilings, and back-roll each wall as you spray. This method is the most efficient for me when darker wall colors come into play, since it's faster for me to spray a fog on each wall with a FF tip, let it tack, then spray a heavy coat & back-roll. I put it on about 150% when I'm about *2'* from the ceiling, which will be plenty of product to paint the wall up real tight when back-rolling. That way, I only have to cut-in walls next to ceiling twice and the rest is sprayed.
> 
> If the Realtor doesn't want ceilings the same paint as trim, I'd still spray ceilings first, then trim, and, (like I stated above), depending upon the wall color, I'll either spray & back-roll walls or brush & roll. Obviously, the level of masking on the trim will depend upon whether the walls will be rolled or sprayed.
> 
> ...


Do you mean "2 feet" or do mean 2 inches? 2''


----------



## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

beedoola said:


> Do you mean "2 feet" or do mean 2 inches? 2''



2 feet


----------



## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

I'd have to see a picture of the layout. Sounds like some ceilings have moulding around them while others don't? 

Seems like flooring is going to be removed or is already except for trim. Assuming trim to be painted and not stained. 

If the rooms are two-toned (walls one color, ceilings another). I'd start painting, spraying the walls. Then the ceilings. If it's 1 color, then do the ceilings first. 

Yellow tape works good, let paint cure over night before you put it on real good, better safe than sorry. It works "o.k" in the hand masker. Myself and the guys fiddle with it more on the hand maskers, so I have them run a line of tape first and then come back with some white tape & masker right on top. Goes faster that way.

If you need some ideas on spraying I posted a thread on some of that stuff:
http://www.painttalk.com/f2/anyone-want-thread-vids-nc-spraying-29956/

Good luck, but sounds like you have a decent plan already.


----------



## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

SemiproJohn said:


> I'm very likely to win a bid on an entire exterior and interior repaint. My helper and I will also install laminate flooring, carpeting, and ceramic tile. Regarding the interior repainting, I am wanting to eliminate as much brush work as possible. The home has been purchased by a realtor and will be unoccupied while the work is being performed.
> 
> Some facts:
> 
> ...


Ditch the frog tape. Wayyyy too much $. You can tape walls the next day. 
use 2020 1 1/2 inch. or G5 (just started using this one a couple of months ago, i think that's the name of it...?lol...LOVE IT!). Just paper on your handmasker. ime, temperature is important. if it's too cold inside the tape will lose it's grip and you'll come in in the morning and see all your hard work laying on the floor. too warm and the tape is too sticky and will definitely pull.sheen is also a factor, eggshell or higher tends to be a little slick when its below about 60-70 ish indoors and freshly taped. ime, there will be a bit of touch up to do but it's worth it. just try to keep the temp at 60-70 day and night and you should be just fine. central oregon=high desert i'm assuming? cold nights.
as long as you're putting primer and 2 coats on everything, touchups should be a breeze.
Also, make sure you're pressure is right for the lids (1/2-3/4 ish is what I like) and use a 411 or something like it... and get er done!
Either method you mentioned will work....Me, I'd get the trim done first then backmask it all off. Use the blue orange core for that part to prevent pulling. good luck!


----------



## dirtyjeep01 (Dec 19, 2015)

When some of you mentioned you use a shield. How r u using it. If you place a shield up to trim you have to be bound to have some overspray on your trim..no?


----------



## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

I shield all of it. With a handmasker, paper and tape. Maybe some of these other guys are a better shot than I am...that or they just have more hair on their chests...lol


----------



## dirtyjeep01 (Dec 19, 2015)

I'm old school .i cut free hand all my trim. I just don't see how masking everything saves time on double cutting. Plus all that extra cost on paper and tape


----------



## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

Inside corners push your shield flat against ceiling.

Outside corners...we brush.


----------



## csbeepee (Jun 29, 2015)

I would personally set it up like a new construction gig... Pull flooring that is going to be replaced, Stand doors in the garage, mask flooring that is staying, mask windows/cabinets etc., spray one heavy coat and backroll over new drywall, spray regular coat w/out backroll on existing painted walls. Let your paint dry for 24 hours, come back and mask for the trim. Shoot it and the doors. Pull masking, reset doors, switch plates, lighting, blinds, etc. and done.

We just did a full interior repaint like this in a 2200 sq. ft house. Took us 185 man hours with all flooring and carpet in place, crown in the great room, fully wrapped windows. You won't have to mask the carpet, so you should THEORETICALLY be able to finish quicker than we did. Sounds like a profitable gig to me! Convince the Agent/Owner to spray the lids the same as the walls if you can (another time/$$$ saver).

***EDIT: We use nothing but 2050 with no tape peel, as long as you get enough paint on the wall. 2020 to vinyl and other hard surfaces. Anything with a finish gets 2050 (walls), green Frog tape (windows/hardware), or 2090 (veneer's and flooring).

I've heard great things about orange core.


----------



## csbeepee (Jun 29, 2015)

Found this -----> http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/626675O/3mtm-masking-tapes-competitive-matrix.pdf


----------



## dirtyjeep01 (Dec 19, 2015)

So are you masking the ceilings then sprayin. Smooth or texture ceilings ? When you spray your trim your walls are done? So you tape your cut line in ..tape wall surfaces then spray trim and onto paper .?


----------

