# Questions Are people actually buying it?



## DanielMDollaPainting

I got certified last spring when the law came out but know many contractors who didn't. I believe I am in the wrong business now. I should be one of these new companies who email me daily to sell me RRP stuff. I still haven't gotten any of this expensive equipment yet like the class and certification wasn't enough. I guess I figured that I'd pay my dues and then they would leave me alone. I want to embrace the new law but I'm afraid that in my area customers just won't pay for it. The EPA wants to hold us accountable but there is no accountability for homeonwers to use RRP firms. I took over my fathers business last winter after his death and I'm still trying to build a new, younger client base. Things are slow and competition out there is what it is. I here the attitude about setting yourself apart from the other guys that aren't certified. So I ask you. Are people buying this? When I discussed this with my customers they thought it was ridiculous. I used the same drops inside and out for years. Sraped and breathed it all in. I was tested before and no lead. I never had anybody get sick from my jobs. The lead is there, we all know that, but you have to ingest it to get poisoned. It is just not that easy to get lead poison. The EPA is nuts and they are holding the construction industry accountable to clean up something that is just really not that big of a problem IMHO. Sorry for the rant. I just cringe at the thought of getting the vac, and all this other BS and not being able to sell jobs or getting beat on price by non-compliant bids. It's hard enough to sell jobs at my current rates. I tghink the hardest thing for me is changing the way we did things for years to acting like I'm working for the CDC. :confused1::001_unsure:


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## RCP

Yes, it is frustrating. There are several members here that are being successful securing RRP jobs. Maybe they will chime in with some ideas.


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## DanielMDollaPainting

I appreciate any input. The majority of homes in my area are pr-78. I guess it is inevitable to get aboard. I have some friends and relatives who are general contractors who aren't certified and think it is a joke. My dad would roll over in his grave if knew about this crap. I can't see going through these procedures to paint a few windows or even a room. Are guys really removing all the furniture or "tarping" it down. I guess compliance starts with just having the materials in the truck/on the job and "trying" to make an effort. I'm just afraid I guess of EPA showing up at my door for an audit. My wife and I just had our first kid(2 months old) and him getting lead poisoning is the last thing I'm worried about. I need to work and selling people a ride on the moon is pretty hard in this town.


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## Lambrecht

Charge the customer what it cost to cover your direct, indirect, and overhead cost. Period. No matter what the job is. They will either pay or not. If nor move on to the next one. The customer does not determine your selling price... you do.


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## Steve Richards

DanielMDollaPainting said:


> My wife and I just had our first kid(2 months old) and him getting lead poisoning is the last thing I'm worried about.


I'll assume you typed that wrong.

Remember..your family comes first. There will always be another chance to make money, and a year from now you won't even remember what you spent it on anyhow.

I've only done a few of RRP jobs so far. All were relatively small, and for long-time clients that believed me when I told them it "had to be done".

I lost a really nice job because of RRP last year too. Guy (easily) found someone willing to do his apt. bldg w/o the added expense of compliance.
(I took my bite out of the giant sh!t sandwich)


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## CliffK

DanielMDollaPainting said:


> I got certified last spring when the law came out but know many contractors who didn't. I believe I am in the wrong business now. I should be one of these new companies who email me daily to sell me RRP stuff. I still haven't gotten any of this expensive equipment yet like the class and certification wasn't enough. I guess I figured that I'd pay my dues and then they would leave me alone. I want to embrace the new law but I'm afraid that in my area customers just won't pay for it. The EPA wants to hold us accountable but there is no accountability for homeonwers to use RRP firms. I took over my fathers business last winter after his death and I'm still trying to build a new, younger client base. Things are slow and competition out there is what it is. I here the attitude about setting yourself apart from the other guys that aren't certified. So I ask you. Are people buying this? When I discussed this with my customers they thought it was ridiculous. I used the same drops inside and out for years. Sraped and breathed it all in. I was tested before and no lead. I never had anybody get sick from my jobs. The lead is there, we all know that, but you have to ingest it to get poisoned. It is just not that easy to get lead poison. The EPA is nuts and they are holding the construction industry accountable to clean up something that is just really not that big of a problem IMHO. Sorry for the rant. I just cringe at the thought of getting the vac, and all this other BS and not being able to sell jobs or getting beat on price by non-compliant bids. It's hard enough to sell jobs at my current rates. I tghink the hardest thing for me is changing the way we did things for years to acting like I'm working for the CDC. :confused1::001_unsure:


 I understand exactly what you are saying. That being said, Lambrecht is absolutely right. The customer can't determine the cost-we must . In the real world-at least in my market, that is very difficult and frustrating. Some markets are tolerating it better than others. In another tread I mentioned that this is my 35th year and I just got tested for lead and it showed nothing. Granted, I know it doesn't stay in the blood that long, but I thought it would be at least somewhat elevated-nothing. I find when I bring this up, and I think I do it pretty well, the customer gets this look, like I am trying to make a big deal out of something just so we can elevate the price! These days the price is already twice as much or more as the guy with the 4 illegals from Home Depot. Almost like it is a scam and the burden is on me to convince them. I tell them to go to the EPA site, show them the booklet-which we have to buy and they just aren't interested for the most part. I think there are a lot of guys out there who really want to do the right thing and comply, but are finding it hard to sell and the timing of it with these tough economic times even makes it more difficult. There are also some gray areas that I find still have contractors confused regarding "disturbance". I think I'll start another thread rather than highjack this one. Sometimes a well thought out rant is a healthy thing Daniel.


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## CliffK

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## PressurePros

Though this affects me to a small degree, the law is similar to reclaim laws and The Clean Water Act we have to adhere to. The same issue always arises... lack of enforcement. When they pass laws like this, they should budget for public awareness campaigns. If people got the message then there would be more concern on the part of homeowners in hiring the right contractor. Without enforcement, only the honest companies trying to do the right thing get screwed.


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## CliffK

PressurePros said:


> Though this affects me to a small degree, the law is similar to reclaim laws and The Clean Water Act we have to adhere to. The same issue always arises... lack of enforcement. When they pass laws like this, they should budget for public awareness campaigns. If people got the message then there would be more concern on the part of homeowners in hiring the right contractor. Without enforcement, only the honest companies trying to do the right thing get screwed.


 Excellent point PressurePros. You also run into the possible situation where the average HO can no longer afford to paint their home. Question?- When washing an older home for paint prep purposes where the chips are flying this is obviously a RRP situation, but what if you are just washing an older painted surface home that has no paint failure for the purpose of cleaning the dirt and maybe some mildew where there is no paint failure.? Are you guys having to reclaim that water? In another thread someone mentioned they interpreted the law to be that even if you hand wash a pre '78 home the water must be reclaimed. That sounds ridiculous unless the paint is chalking down and the wash water looks like milk. Also, when necessary, how the hell do you guys contain and reclaim all that water in a residential setting with shrubs and flower beds, etc? I NEVER see this being done in this area. It must be a nightmare. Also, are you guys lead testing decks on pre '78 homes where you know that the deck isn't 33 years old prior to washing or stripping.


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## DanielMDollaPainting

Steve Richards said:


> I'll assume you typed that wrong.
> 
> Remember..your family comes first. There will always be another chance to make money, and a year from now you won't even remember what you spent it on anyhow.
> 
> I've only done a few of RRP jobs so far. All were relatively small, and for long-time clients that believed me when I told them it "had to be done".
> 
> I lost a really nice job because of RRP last year too. Guy (easily) found someone willing to do his apt. bldg w/o the added expense of compliance.
> (I took my bite out of the giant sh!t sandwich)


No typo. Without a doubt my family comes first. What I was trying to say was this. Lead is all around. Getting it in your system is another story. I took the training. I think lead poisoning cases are uncommon,isolated incidents. Even if I were to wear my dirty painting clothes in the house and on the furniture my kid is still not going to get lead poisoning. What I meant was by trying to sell RRP jobs I will work less than I am now which is not that often due to the economy. IMO the only reason to comply is to not get fined. I feel the working and cleaning practices we did for years are good enough. If my kid gets lead poisoning I'll eat my hat.


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## Bender

Congrats on the kid!

Back on topic...


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## DanielMDollaPainting

Thanks Bender. I'm having a lot of fun with it. Wish I would have done it ten years ago though. I'll be an old man by the time I get him to move out of the house! LMOA


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## PressurePros

CliffK said:


> Excellent point PressurePros. You also run into the possible situation where the average HO can no longer afford to paint their home. Question?- When washing an older home for paint prep purposes where the chips are flying this is obviously a RRP situation, but what if you are just washing an older painted surface home that has no paint failure for the purpose of cleaning the dirt and maybe some mildew where there is no paint failure.? Are you guys having to reclaim that water? In another thread someone mentioned they interpreted the law to be that even if you hand wash a pre '78 home the water must be reclaimed. That sounds ridiculous unless the paint is chalking down and the wash water looks like milk. Also, when necessary, how the hell do you guys contain and reclaim all that water in a residential setting with shrubs and flower beds, etc? I NEVER see this being done in this area. It must be a nightmare. Also, are you guys lead testing decks on pre '78 homes where you know that the deck isn't 33 years old prior to washing or stripping.


I'll just be honest with you, Cliff. I am not certified and have no plans on becoming. A very small percentage of my houses are painted. They get a field lead test if part of a bigger project including maybe a deck or a roof. I flatly turn down calls for washing houses/porches that have old or peeling paint on them. Its such a small % of my jobs that it equates to losing pennies. There is no possible way to reclaim washwater when doing a house. There are systems available I'm sure but the inherent costs of setup and processing would drive the price of washing a 2500 s.f colonial into the thousands. I stick to where the money is, vinyl or stucco. If the customer answers wrong in the pre-qual, I recommend they find a different company.


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## plainpainter

Well boys, I am here to tell you compliance is a joke. A few days ago the next door neighbor had an asbestos abatment company strip half the asbestos siding off her house. I filmed it - and let me tell you, there was no compliance going on - just a couple of guys in cheap painters suits with dust masks just banging the crap off and letting it fall in the open onto maybe 6' of plastic tarp. Calls were made, the town didn't give a crap, and the epa didn't come either. 

Obviously painters are more vulnerable as our jobs sometimes takes several weeks, giving ample time for some epa guy to come over and check things out. But don't be a fool on everything. Let's say you get a bedroom repaint rfq in some 1923 home - why pass that up? Or say some home that was built in 1973, but so far off the beaten path - nobody will know. Not to mention you have a republican congress hellbent on defunding the EPA. And we all know what happens when you defund enforcement, just saying. I am sick and tired of being looked at like I have 3 heads.


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## CliffK

DanielMDollaPainting said:


> No typo. Without a doubt my family comes first. What I was trying to say was this. Lead is all around. Getting it in your system is another story. I took the training. I think lead poisoning cases are uncommon,isolated incidents. Even if I were to wear my dirty painting clothes in the house and on the furniture my kid is still not going to get lead poisoning. What I meant was by trying to sell RRP jobs I will work less than I am now which is not that often due to the economy. IMO the only reason to comply is to not get fined. I feel the working and cleaning practices we did for years are good enough. If my kid gets lead poisoning I'll eat my hat.


You make some good points Daniel, however this is the new world and us "cavemen" need to adapt and change accordingly as much as it may be frustrating and in some cases make no sense. My father was a painter his whole life and came home in his paint clothes, I used to to get driven to school in the van. The point is, I grew up in and around it as well and have spent the past 35 years working it. I did very well in school, seemingly have no ill effects and like I say was tested last year with no elevated levels. I do believe like you it is overkill, but I also believe there is a problem in some cases. It is hard to fix these things on individual level-that's where these major new laws come into play-hopefully it prevents some children from getting messed up, but I do agree. I do not think the "suits" are aware of the practicality of it many times in the field. Where were they when the lead was being put in all this paint? Gotta get on board Daniel-check out the other thread I started and give me your thoughts.


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## RCP

Many painters whose blood tests normal have shown abnormal levels in the bones under an xray.

How many have followed the OHSA Rules on Lead Safety?

How many of you do a test on site to rule out lead? The last 12 pre 78 homes I tested were negative. 

And pressure washing is not considered renovation and subject to RRP unless it disturbs the paint, yeah, fine line. But your local water dept usually will regulate that

Link


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## CliffK

RCP said:


> Many painters whose blood tests normal have shown abnormal levels in the bones under an xray.
> 
> How many have followed the OHSA Rules on Lead Safety?
> 
> How many of you do a test on site to rule out lead? The last 12 pre 78 homes I tested were negative.
> 
> And pressure washing is not considered renovation and subject to RRP unless it disturbs the paint, yeah, fine line. But your local water dept usually will regulate that
> 
> Link


 I realize that Chris and an excellent point. The lead eventually ends up in bones and organs. The blood cleans itself out. When you tests the homes Chris, are you testing ceilings, walls, woodwork on everything you intend to paint or just the areas you will need to "disturb"(sand, scrape,) etc?


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## RCP

CliffK said:


> I realize that Chris and an excellent point. The lead eventually ends up in bones and organs. The blood cleans itself out. When you tests the homes Chris, are you testing ceilings, walls, woodwork on everything you intend to paint or just the areas you will need to "disturb"(sand, scrape,) etc?


It has varied, in this home, I tested 53 spots, many of which probably were not necessary, as they were not being "disturbed", but this house had many years of additions, so it was good for research!

I have not used the D Lead kit yet, so no drywall or plaster. It depends on the home and scope, sometimes I test for a GC who may be doing more than I would do as painting. Usually every different component that I estimate to paint. I can never be positive when the guys get there if they need to do more prep than I scoped, so I tend to over test!


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## daArch

I think that in order to fully understand what is being attempted by the law (even if it is being mis-managed and screwed up by typical bureaucratic BS), one must be better educated as to the reality of the ease of lead poisoning.

I speak from experience. It's easy to be poisoned in the painting profession and it is no fun. 

And there is an absolutely high risk of bring lead dust home on your clothes and depositing in your own vehicle and home furnishing for others to ingest. 

_*All this is no BullSh!t *_

AND, I once again relate how when Little Bobby Reich (before he was Secretary of Labor) wanted to grow tomatoes outside his kitchen window, he needed to have the soil replaced because of the years of paint chips that had fallen on the dirt. If he had grown tomatoes in the polluted soil, his young son and daughter would have ingested enough lead to affect their development.

Now, whether or not the RRP rule is being administered correctly, is not up for debate. We all now it sucks big time. Likewise, the effects and the ease of being poisoned by lead should not be up for debate. It is real and it is serious


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## Steve Richards

Moving in a new direction..

My least favorite part, is the yellow tape and signs.


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## CliffK

RCP said:


> It has varied, in this home, I tested 53 spots, many of which probably were not necessary, as they were not being "disturbed", but this house had many years of additions, so it was good for research!
> 
> I have not used the D Lead kit yet, so no drywall or plaster. It depends on the home and scope, sometimes I test for a GC who may be doing more than I would do as painting. Usually every different component that I estimate to paint. I can never be positive when the guys get there if they need to do more prep than I scoped, so I tend to over test!


 How do you work the costs of the labor & materials for the test? Do you test only after actually get the job? 53 tests are a lot! If so how can you figure the job before you know what's involved. If you test at the estimate level, how do you charge for that? Do you find the homeowners will pay for testing to a company they have not yet committed to hire, or do you absorb it as a cost of doing business?


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## Steve Richards

I posted this on CT last year..only got 1 thanks...so I'll try it on this crowd *raising one eyebrow*

Scenario:

I'm working away prepping a house ext.
I've got my signs and yellow tape up...prompting the guy across the street to come over and have a closer look.

I tell him to go the f**k home...but he's already seen my "lead hazard" sign.

He waddles home and googles "lead hazard", and ends up on EPA's website.

Then he watches me through binoculars..and sees me (momentarily) use my disc sander unshrouded so I can reach a tough place.

He calls the EPA's toll free number, they come over and bust me.

Meanwhile, the painter 3 doors down is working w/o following ANY RRP guidelines. But for lack of any yellow tape/signs he's gone unnoticed.

After he sees the EPA guys take me away in handcuffs, he walks over to the house I just finished prepping, and gives the HO his card.


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## CliffK

Steve Richards said:


> Moving in a new direction..
> 
> My least favorite part, is the yellow tape and signs.


 The suits make me look fat!


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## Steve Richards

aaannnnd nothing here either

*tearing up scenario and tossing it in the trash*


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## Steve Richards

CliffK said:


> The suits make me look fat!


You don't have to wear them.

If you have employees...they do.

(you get to make jokes)


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## CliffK

Steve Richards said:


> I posted this on CT last year..only got 1 thanks...so I'll try it on this crowd *raising one eyebrow*
> 
> Scenario:
> 
> I'm working away prepping a house ext.
> I've got my signs and yellow tape up...prompting the guy across the street to come over and have a closer look.
> 
> I tell him to go the f**k home...but he's already seen my "lead hazard" sign.
> 
> He waddles home and googles "lead hazard", and ends up on EPA's website.
> 
> Then he watches me through binoculars..and sees me (momentarily) use my disc sander unshrouded so I can reach a tough place.
> 
> He calls the EPA's toll free number, they come over and bust me.
> 
> Meanwhile, the painter 3 doors down is working w/o following ANY RRP guidelines. But for lack of any yellow tape/signs he's gone unnoticed.
> 
> After he sees the EPA guys take me away in handcuffs, he walks over to the house I just finished prepping, and gives the HO his card.


 That's the same point I basically made in the other thread ""disturbance". It will most likely be the guys with the certification that get fined and busted mostly on technicalities and record keeping. The uncertified guys will once again fly under the radar. You probably shouldn't have told him to go the f**k home!!!!- hypothetically of course


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## CliffK

Steve Richards said:


> You don't have to wear them.
> 
> If you have employees...they do.
> 
> (you get to make jokes)


 One of the guys in the class I took was about 400lbs. -couldn't even begin to get into the suit - we made him the "supervisor" on the mock job.


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## RCP

CliffK said:


> How do you work the costs of the labor & materials for the test? Do you test only after actually get the job? 53 tests are a lot! If so how can you figure the job before you know what's involved. If you test at the estimate level, how do you charge for that? Do you find the homeowners will pay for testing to a company they have not yet committed to hire, or do you absorb it as a cost of doing business?


I have done it a few ways, that one I did 53 (using a swab for multiple spots, so not 53 swabs) was more for my records, so I ate some of the cost.

During the estimate, I have done it both ways.
Charge $35 for the test for up to 5 spots and they are not committed to us.
Provide two prices, one based on no lead and the other based on assumption or positive test.


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## Steve Richards

CliffK said:


> It will most likely be the guys with the certification that get fined and busted mostly on technicalities and record keeping. The uncertified guys will once again fly under the radar.


The way I understand it...

you'll get into MORE trouble if you get caught....because you're certified.


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## CliffK

Steve Richards said:


> The way I understand it...
> 
> you'll get into MORE trouble if you get caught....because you're certified.


 Yeh- You can't plead stupid.....


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## RCP

Steve Richards said:


> The way I understand it...
> 
> you'll get into MORE trouble if you get caught....because you're certified.


From what I have read, I believe the opposite is true, there are several factors in the fine schedule, a guy who is certified and trying to do the right thing, but misinterpreted or neglected a small point will be looked at differently than the guy who is not and has no regard to the rule. But that is comparing two guys that get caught, and we are the ones that are wearing the bullseye!

From the attached doc,



> On a case-by-case basis, EPA may determine that the issuance of a notice of noncompliance (NON),12 rather than a civil administrative complaint is the most appropriate enforcement response to a violation.13	A NON should be issued to address violations in the following circumstances:
> i.	Where a first time violator’s violation has low probability of re-occurrence14 and low potential for harm; or
> ii.	When a violator is in substantial compliance with the requirement as the specific facts and circumstances support.


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## 6126

CliffK said:


> How do you work the costs of the labor & materials for the test? Do you test only after actually get the job? 53 tests are a lot! If so how can you figure the job before you know what's involved. If you test at the estimate level, how do you charge for that? Do you find the homeowners will pay for testing to a company they have not yet committed to hire, or do you absorb it as a cost of doing business?


 Im curious about this too. The way I understand the law, you are required to do the test just to give an estiamte. Is that correct? If so, I will probably go through my website, business cards, etc and remove the "Free Estimates" and also impliment a charge simular to what Chris mentioned on the older homes.


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## RCP

Woodland said:


> Im curious about this too. The way I understand the law, you are required to do the test just to give an estiamte. Is that correct? If so, I will probably go through my website, business cards, etc and remove the "Free Estimates" and also impliment a charge simular to what Chris mentioned on the older homes.


No, you are not required to test, you can proceed based on the "possibility" of lead paint. The homeowner may not want the test done, as then it becomes an official record of the home and they can't answer "I don't know" when asked about LBP when trying to sell.


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## Steve Richards

CliffK said:


> Yeh- You can't plead stupid.....





> *IV. Criminal Proceedings*
> This ERPP does not address criminal violations of TSCA. However, if the civil case
> team has reason to believe that a violator knowingly violated any provision of TSCA, it should
> promptly refer the matter to the Criminal Investigation Division (CID). TSCA’s criminal
> penalties are found in Section 16(b).15 In addition, pursuant to 18 U.S.C. Section 1001, it is a
> criminal violation to knowingly and willfully make a false or fraudulent statement in any matter
> within EPA’s jurisdiction. In addition, it may be considered a criminal violation to knowingly or​willfully falsify information provided to the Agency.


Yup..Can't plead stupid if you're certified.


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## Steve Richards

Last year...house w/steel siding, I was just doing the windows.

People were out of town, and wanted their house to look nice for a party they were having when they got back.

I started in the back. Following RRP. Get done, carefully roll up the plastic as per RRP... dead plants!

Front of the house has a huge flowerbed, right under the main windows.
No way I'm gonna have these people come home, and have a giant dead flowerbed showing off the front of their house.

So I skipped RRP.

Was I nervous? You bet I was.

Did I know that white plastic sheeting would help? not at the time.

Could I have gone to jail?

I think so!


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## CliffK

Steve Richards said:


> Last year...house w/steel siding, I was just doing the windows.
> 
> People were out of town, and wanted their house to look nice for a party they were having when they got back.
> 
> I started in the back. Following RRP. Get done, carefully roll up the plastic as per RRP... dead plants!
> 
> Front of the house has a huge flowerbed, right under the main windows.
> No way I'm gonna have these people come home, and have a giant dead flowerbed showing off the front of their house.
> 
> So I skipped RRP.
> 
> Was I nervous? You bet I was.
> 
> Did I know that white plastic sheeting would help? not at the time.
> 
> Could I have gone to jail?
> 
> I think so!


 There's a lot to it once you get out of the classroom and into the field. There is going to be a learning curve. Only a short time prior you could have had them opt- out and you wouldn't have been a criminal at all! What a difference a day makes.


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## Harry

CliffK said:


> You make some good points Daniel, however this is the new world and us "cavemen" need to adapt and change accordingly as much as it may be frustrating and in some cases make no sense. My father was a painter his whole life and came home in his paint clothes, I used to to get driven to school in the van. The point is, I grew up in and around it as well and have spent the past 35 years working it. I did very well in school, seemingly have no ill effects and like I say was tested last year with no elevated levels. I do believe like you it is overkill, but I also believe there is a problem in some cases. It is hard to fix these things on individual level-that's where these major new laws come into play-hopefully it prevents some children from getting messed up, but I do agree. I do not think the "suits" are aware of the practicality of it many times in the field. Where were they when the lead was being put in all this paint? Gotta get on board Daniel-check out the other thread I started and give me your thoughts.


Perhaps you're talking to the wrong people...
Truth is, when we were kids, we COULD eat a bunch of lead paint. We also could breath leaded air (from leaded gas etc) all day long. Our tolerance level was high.

However, our kids and grand kids are born with a very low tolerance to lead and a small bit makes them ill. My three kids did get lead poisoning, counts of 13, 14 and 21. The investigation found that the fan in the kids' windows was the culprit. Seems that small particles of paint from the backside of the sash jamb/stop flaked off and went through the fan and got pulverized enough to go into the kids' throats...and well, don't be betting anything...


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## CliffK

Harry said:


> Perhaps you're talking to the wrong people...
> Truth is, when we were kids, we COULD eat a bunch of lead paint. We also could breath leaded air (from leaded gas etc) all day long. Our tolerance level was high.
> 
> However, our kids and grand kids are born with a very low tolerance to lead and a small bit makes them ill. My three kids did get lead poisoning, counts of 13, 14 and 21. The investigation found that the fan in the kids' windows was the culprit. Seems that small particles of paint from the backside of the sash jamb/stop flaked off and went through the fan and got pulverized enough to go into the kids' throats...and well, don't be betting anything...


 That's some interesting stuff Harry. I never heard that the tolerance difference levels are so different from years ago. I thought lead was always a problem. Do you or anyone know why this is? Did your children have any ill effects from the lead or did you just discover it through testing out of precaution?


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## DanielMDollaPainting

Is there a way a moderator can delete this thread or do I modify it myself. My negative rant came up in a google search to bite me. Just trying my best to adapt but this is bad for business. Internet is a love ahte relationship.


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## RCP

Finally have a discussion without name calling and you want it deleted! 

Just kidding, lot of good info here and I'd really hate to delete it all.
You should still be able to edit it though, do you see an edit button on the bottom right of your original post?

If not,
How about you post a reply rewording your op and I'll edit the original one with your response?


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## DanielMDollaPainting

No it's cool. I should have picked an anonymous screen name. I googled RRP painters in my area and this thread came up to the top! The worst thing about the law is using plastic. I can't stand using plastic drops and only ever used .7 mil to cover furniture. I hate the way it's all slippy when I walk on it.


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