# Gardz over liners (Blankstock)



## Colour Republic

Hi guys, been a while since I last posted but still check in from time to time.

Been having a discussion on a UK painters forum about gardzing over lining paper with another paper hanger. 

Now I don't do this but it seems he does as a matter of course or rather he does more often than not.
I’ve got no doubt that this hanger is experienced and knowledgeable and I believe he’s worked in the states where he got the idea from.

Now I can think of a few situations where it might be beneficial to do this (mainly in commercial settings rather than domestic) but I can think of a ton of reasons why not to do it and for me it removes a lot of the benefits a liner has in the first place. 

In most cases to me the liner is sacrificial and has its own job to do but it seems the other hanger wants to protect it and not have to remove it should the wall be stripped and re-hung at a later date. He may have other reasons too but not sure what they are yet.

So the question is, how many of you hangers gardz over liners as a matter of course?

If you do why? Have you got examples of situations where you feel it's better to do this as I can only come up with a couple?

Cheers guys:thumbsup:


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## daArch

I'm with you, sealing blankstock liner negates many of the beneficial properties, ie to wick off excess moisture to prevent moisture migration and thus possible blushing of the surface inks. Also, sealing the liner will not allow the seams to lock down thus preventing seam creep as paper dries. I rarely even SIZE blankstock, although many do all the time.

HOWEVER, non-woven BRIDGING liner is a horse of a different color (or colour to you guys  ). That stuff does need a prep coat on it, but I would use an acrylic type prep coat and not a sealer like Gardz. 

You have read my article on liner?

www.billarchibald.com/liner.html 



> *Why A Liner ?*​
> by Bill Archibald​
> Many wallpaper instructions mention the use of liners, also known as blankstock. The recommendations vary from the generic, "For best results, we recommend lining the wall", to the definitive, "walls must be lined".
> 
> Why SHOULD a liner be installed under the finish paper? The simple answer would be, "because the manufacturer recommends it and without liner, the manufacturer is not obligated to consider any claims against unsatisfactory performance or appearance of the wallpaper."
> 
> But that still does not answer the questions, "Why a liner? What does it do? What is its function?"
> 
> A liner has positive effects on the aesthetics and longevity of the installation.
> 
> It is often erroneously explained that a liner will smooth out rough walls, bridge grooves of wood paneling, or hide textured surfaces. Although a heavy-duty non-woven bridging liner may help alleviate those situations, the subject at hand is blankstock liner, which as the name implies, is blank, unprinted, stock pulp paper. It is suitable for smoothing out the pitted appearance of some plaster walls and will soften the hard edges of chipped paint that were never feather-sanded. However, no liner will smooth out bumps, grit, nubbins, and other protrusions.
> 
> Liner will give a uniform surface appearance to the finish paper. It has been called, "a soft upholstered look".
> 
> Perhaps the most beneficial aspect to liner is that it fights seam-splitting of the finish paper. Like all paper, wallpaper, when wet, expands. When it dries, it shrinks. This natural process wants to pull the seams apart. The goal is to securely anchor the paper before it has a chance to shrink. Because blankstock liner is absorbent, it quickly wicks moisture away from the pasted finish paper. This locks down the paper in its expanded state, preventing shrinkage and seam creep.
> 
> This quick removal of moisture from the finish paper also lessens the chance of water and paste migrating to the surface, which can cause blushing, mottling, or other staining problems on some sensitive materials.
> 
> Many hangers (myself included) have had a few experiences in which some pulp papers installed in humid environments (bathrooms, ocean side homes, etc) without a liner have stained within five years. No one has yet indisputably pinpointed the cause of this phenomenon, but the use of a liner has proved to virtually eliminate the problem.
> 
> Liner paper can also stabilize unsound surfaces. As mentioned above, when paper dries, it shrinks. Wallpaper will never fully shrink back to its original size once it is on the wall and the paste is dry, but it wants to. This puts quite a bit of lateral force on the wall, and this force does not go away with time. It forever pulls. Any paint under the paper that is weakly adhered to the substrate will be pulled off the wall and the wallpaper will fail as a result. When a liner is installed under the finish paper, the two layers of paper will actually pull against each other and negate the net forces on the wall. This is a tough concept to understand at first read, so I point you to my friend Jim Parodi's in-depth explanation: Better Living Through Blankstock
> 
> Simply put, when wallpaper and liner are used together, they become one piece of paper, similar to a sheet of plywood.
> 
> Considering manufacturers' recommendations, the look a liner gives, and the problems it solves, it is easy to see why many experienced installers and manufacturers say, "if you want the best wallpaper installation possible, you want a liner."
> 
> ©2010 wm f archibald​


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## Colour Republic

Cheers Bill, thanks for that and yeah we were only discussing woven liners with regards to gardzing not non-woven


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## Colour Republic

Oh and I have seen your article in the past and jims and also some of the great posts on Rebecca Schunck's site. All good info and I have blogs along similar lines and in agreement on mine 

http://www.colour-republic.com/blog_decorators_why_use_lining_paper.html


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## ttalbon

Cheers Colour for the Rebecca Schunck reference.

Her website is very informative and a must for all decorators or wallpaper installers as they call them in America.

They have a way with words!


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## chrisn

ttalbon said:


> Cheers Colour for the Rebecca Schunck reference.
> 
> Her website is very informative and a must for all decorators or wallpaper installers as they call them in America.
> 
> They have a way with words!


 

WE have a way with words? blimey, bangers,emulsion, etc.:blink:


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## wellsronald18

I am interested to see the answer to this question as well. I have wondered about the different liners and have heard different stories about EDIT: removed unrelated commercial linkhanging in the UK and US respectively.


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## Monkeyboy

daArch said:


> I'm with you, sealing blankstock liner negates many of the beneficial properties, ie to wick off excess moisture to prevent moisture migration and thus possible blushing of the surface inks. Also, sealing the liner will not allow the seams to lock down thus preventing seam creep as paper dries. I rarely even SIZE blankstock, although many do all the time.
> 
> HOWEVER, non-woven BRIDGING liner is a horse of a different color (or colour to you guys  ). That stuff does need a prep coat on it, but I would use an acrylic type prep coat and not a sealer like Gardz.
> 
> You have read my article on liner?
> 
> www.billarchibald.com/liner.html


So Bill, do you put lining paper up on every job?


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## chrisn

Monkeyboy said:


> So Bill, do you put lining paper up on every job?


:laughing::laughing::no:


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## daArch

Monkeyboy said:


> So Bill, do you put lining paper up on every job?


Definitely not !

I do not undersell nor oversell the use of a liner. If a manufacturer mentions the use of a liner, I ask the HO to read my  article and decide for themselves, accepting all responsibility if they choose not to.

Farrow & Ball is recently using wording, "If necessary....." . That allows me the latitude to opine whether or not liner is "necessary". It the USA, generally liner is not "necessary".

I love hanging liner, I do not like hanging paper ON liner.


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## mudbone

Monkeyboy said:


> So Bill, do you put lining paper up on every job?


Only if he is gluing it!:whistling2:


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## Underdog

Whenever they say in the instructions that liner is necessary and I know it's not, I get permission to proceed.

It's kind of a surprise to the client that their wallpaper bill just about doubled.


:cowboy:


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## chrisn

mudbone said:


> Only if he is gluing it!:whistling2:


hey now


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## daArch

Underdog said:


> Whenever they say in the instructions that liner is necessary and I know it's not, I get permission to proceed.
> 
> It's kind of a surprise to the client that their wallpaper bill just about doubled.
> 
> 
> :cowboy:


I charge 57% more for the liner, and that includes the liner itself. And I make decent money with it. But liner to me is NOT to generate more income, although I know for many hangers it is .


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## chrisn

In my wall papering world, I have never seen instructions that say you need liner ( well maybe once in almost 25 years)


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## daArch

chrisn said:


> In my wall papering world, I have never seen instructions that say you need liner ( well maybe once in almost 25 years)


Is that because you throw them out w/o looking?  :whistling2:

Or because you have never hung an "ampersand" brand (Osborne & Little, Farrow & Ball, Cole & Son, Colfax & Fowler, Bradbury & Bradbury, Coutan & Tout, etc etc) ?


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## chrisn

daArch said:


> Is that because you throw them out w/o looking?  :whistling2:
> 
> Or because you have never hung an "ampersand" brand (Osborne & Little, Farrow & Ball, Cole & Son, Colfax & Fowler, Bradbury & Bradbury, Coutan & Tout, etc etc) ?


I don't get any of that high falutin stuff in this burg


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## two fingers

with all that I learned about blankstock priming the liner would defeat the purpose of it all together.you might as well skim and prime and cut out the liner all together


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## chrisn

two fingers said:


> with all that I learned about blankstock priming the liner would defeat the purpose of it all together.you might as well skim and prime and cut out the liner all together


I would agree but I have read augments for it


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## daArch

chrisn said:


> I would agree but I have read augments for it


What are the argument FOR priming (prep coat, gardz, etc) BLANKSTOCK.

I know the reasons for coating BRIDGING liner, and I've heard the pro and cons for SIZING blankstock, but I would love to hear the arguments proposed to PRIME/SEAL blankstock.

:thumbsup:


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## chrisn

daArch said:


> What are the argument FOR priming (prep coat, gardz, etc) BLANKSTOCK.
> 
> I know the reasons for coating BRIDGING liner, and I've heard the pro and cons for SIZING blankstock, but I would love to hear the arguments proposed to PRIME/SEAL blankstock.
> 
> :thumbsup:


maybe I was(am) confused:blink:


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