# For the guys who spray all the time



## dan_s (Dec 20, 2013)

I have had three estimates this week for whole interior painting. Ceilings, trim, doors, walls, everything. 

Normally, we would just brush and roll and charge accordingly, but all three are clients that are moving in to these houses. The houses will be empty, so I can treat it as "new construction" in my mind (minus the priming). The only spraying I have done inside a house has been a few houses that were fire/water insurance jobs. I'm thinking spraying would be fastest. I normally would not spray interior, but there will be nothing in the houses, and two of them will have carpet replaced, and I want to practice spraying trim/doors to get better.
I am thinking vacuum everything, tape/paper anything that doesn't need paint, shoot ceilings, shoot trim, shoot doors that are removed, brush roll walls

I have searched through the threads and appreciate all the good advice/experience being shared. There are a few questions I can't find answers for.
1. Rooms with crown (one house has it throughout) If I shot the ceiling than came back and masked off the ceiling to shoot the trim. What kind of tape do I use and how long should I wait to apply it. I was under the impression paint needs a week to cure before you can tape. The only tape I have used is the white contractor tape at SW for the tight spaces and to mask exteriors, it seems to work better than blue.
2. Do you the mask registers in the house or just turn the furnace/central air off for a few hours

Thanks in advance for your answers


----------



## bbair (Nov 18, 2012)

If you use a good flat on the ceilings just spray the crown with the trim and tape it off and touch up with a whiz. Seems like a bad idea, but it's the fastest. You can cover the cold air returns with plastic or just replace the furnace filter or both. Also, for base in the house that's keeping the carpet you can push tape and plastic or paper down under the base. On the other 2 I'd cut the carpet back, or even see if you can charge for getting it out of there.


----------



## bklynboy1970 (Oct 8, 2013)

dan_s said:


> I have had three estimates this week for whole interior painting. Ceilings, trim, doors, walls, everything.
> 
> Normally, we would just brush and roll and charge accordingly, but all three are clients that are moving in to these houses. The houses will be empty, so I can treat it as "new construction" in my mind (minus the priming). The only spraying I have done inside a house has been a few houses that were fire/water insurance jobs. I'm thinking spraying would be fastest. I normally would not spray interior, but there will be nothing in the houses, and two of them will have carpet replaced, and I want to practice spraying trim/doors to get better.
> I am thinking vacuum everything, tape/paper anything that doesn't need paint, shoot ceilings, shoot trim, shoot doors that are removed, brush roll walls
> ...


Go to contractor talk and drift weed is a pro ....there's a whole thread on 101 spraying good luck
He has a system and it works even when occupied


----------



## Toolnut (Nov 23, 2012)

Agree Drift Weed has some very good post on here. Keep trying to get him to make a vid. LOL


----------



## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

3m 2020 is your friend. It is not for the feint of heart. I'm a pro huh? I freakin wish. 

The thread is called "How I spray"

It's about production style painting. So take it at that. Line crispness along trim will depend heavily on a the quality of the caulk job. 

It can be adjusted to your situation though. For example: flat covers semi easier than vise versa. So I would do all crown/trim first not caring about overspray on walls/ceilings. You will get a more flawless appearance this way.

Then its just a matter of shielding. 

Imagine how nice it would be to do a ginormous interior repaint in 2-3 days instead of an entire week. Especially @ residentials juicy prices.


----------



## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

yea yea yea i keep forgetting to make the vid


----------



## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

This one is an easy one. All we do is usually new construction. 

Depends on what the home owners wants. I've started getting a lot of requests for two tone rooms/houses. it sometimes sucks because its more work, more material, more time. It looks good though, no doubt about it. It's whatever the customer(s) want. 

1.) 2020 tape AFTER a fresh paint job = NO NO. Can it be done yah? Right away? Forget it, it'll peel off the paint like it wasn't even there. 

A week to cure tape? No way, we'd be out of business already if that was the case. 


Prime, tape, paint all in one day is the way we usually do it, but it's a long day and you can't start at 9am. Be there at 7am with all the tools, paint already on site preferably, stuff already masked off from the previous day (or take an hour or two to mask whatever off). You'll be able to knock a bunch of work out real quick once you get the hang of things.

1a.) The tape to use would be your blue tape at LEAST. What are you taping off the crown I assume? The rule is: If there is no paint, white tape will work 2020. If its painted/finish you have to use more delicate adhesive backed tape (blue) or even the yellow frog tape. If you have a short window of time, yellow tape. If you can wait for an overnight cure, blue tape. 

2.) Why would you brush/roll walls? Is it a very complex design/shape/stuff in the way? If its truly NC like your saying, just spray it all. Why waste the time spraying everything BUT the largest sqft? If you want practice, this could be your house. Try it out.

3.) Mask registers? It's a good idea at least, make sure to take the filters out if you decide to mask them off. I personally would just get a guy and a screw gun and unscrew them and put them somewhere else. Then mask like we normally do with newspaper in the vents, if you wanted to. Lots of NC guys don't go to that extent here, just trigger off the gun when you get to the corners and trigger on when you pass by it. 

Good luck! Let us know what you ended up doing.


----------



## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

thanks for clarifying that coyote. Follow this mans advice on taping. 

Lol, didn't mean to imply using 2020 on fresh paint.


----------



## dan_s (Dec 20, 2013)

woodcoyote said:


> This one is an easy one. All we do is usually new construction.
> 
> Depends on what the home owners wants. I've started getting a lot of requests for two tone rooms/houses. it sometimes sucks because its more work, more material, more time. It looks good though, no doubt about it. It's whatever the customer(s) want.
> 
> ...


----------



## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

CP66 is much tackier than 2020. 2020 is pretty safe for enamels next day, check first though. I prefer 2080.


----------



## Slopmeyer (Aug 2, 2009)

Minimal experience spraying in a house with all light fixtures and stuff installed with some finished flooring sounds like a recipe for disaster. Im all for learning to spray,but this probably isn't the place to learn.
A couple guys can bang out a room in no time by hand


----------



## Professional Painter (Mar 15, 2014)

Slopmeyer said:


> Minimal experience spraying in a house with all light fixtures and stuff installed with some finished flooring sounds like a recipe for disaster. Im all for learning to spray,but this probably isn't the place to learn.
> A couple guys can bang out a room in no time by hand


It's all a matter of process. Spend an entire day prepping with 3 very well trained men and at the end of the project, I can guarantee you that you will be wrapping up operations and leaving for the next project by the time the "other guys" are done cutting in the walls. Light fixtures and everything installed before spraying even with hardwood floors, no exceptions. You just have to learn and train your team to mask as quickly and professionally as they paint, regardless of what application process required.

While it is no way to learn, it is actually. *IF* you put your mind to it....and think appropriately. If one seeks to be efficient, then they must learn to mask if they intend to spray. Our company sprays even with high end clients. Only the final coat of walls gets rolled (depending on the level of service) and 2%+- gets brushed. The rest is sprayed.

Old school is one thing. The way you think your crew can "bang out" a room is another. Move onto a 2400 sq. ft. house and be done in 3 working hour days with those same 3 men, total 100% interior repaint and you are looking at profit the likes of which you may not have thought possible.

Slow down to speed up.

Professional Painter


----------



## dan_s (Dec 20, 2013)

I agree Professional, we mask all the time when spraying exteriors, so I think I will be all right. I imagine going slower and deliberate in the prep will yield quicker results. Everyone has a first. While I will not be as good as some here with spraying walls, the production on doors, trim, ceilings can pay dividends to this and future projects


----------



## Repaintpro (Oct 2, 2012)

Arrrr............I want to get my head around this so much! I used to spray new work (ceilings and wardrobes finished with spray and maybe panel doors, everything else one undercoat) and never spray repaints.


----------



## Toolnut (Nov 23, 2012)

Not sure if it was here or somewhere else, but not too long ago someone posted about when rollers were first introduced and how painters thought they would never last and were a novelty. I think that is where sprayers are now. I bought mine used it once, hated it, put it in the garage where it sat for a couple years. Then I hired a guy who had some spray experience, had him teach me and have never looked back.


----------



## Repaintpro (Oct 2, 2012)

Thats so true...........my dad used to use the old 6 inch paint brushes for everything (apparently) Could not believe someone could use a 460mm roller for walls!


----------



## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

Toolnut said:


> Not sure if it was here or somewhere else, but not too long ago someone posted about when rollers were first introduced and how painters thought they would never last and were a novelty. I think that is where sprayers are now. I bought mine used it once, hated it, put it in the garage where it sat for a couple years. Then I hired a guy who had some spray experience, had him teach me and have never looked back.


Are you nuts? Sprayers have been around along time. I started in 1975 and we were taught to use whatever is most efficient. That usually meant spray You personally just aren't up to speed.


----------



## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

aaron61 said:


> Are you nuts? Sprayers have been around along time. I started in 1975 and we were taught to use whatever is most efficient. That usually meant spray You personally just aren't up to speed.



It is nuts. Never the less in certain parts of the country spraying is still viewed with suspicion by painters and the public. I'm one of the only ones in my area who does it. Some if the bigger outfits do it, but many of them have made such big messes by giving inexperienced employees sprayers and telling them to figure it out, that the stigma is further reinforced. 

I have literally had to convince many customers that pro spraying is often the best most efficient way to paint. So many people have had bad experiences with it because of untrained people trying to do it.


----------



## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

People get used to doing what they are used to doing and get stuck. The world passes them by. Get set in ur ways and insist on being right and that is wen ur done keeping up. But you won't even know it

I got to make myself remember that. In all aspects of life not just painting. Ignorance and denial will make a person irrelevant. One must constantly adjust and learn and keep up.


----------



## Paintinglife (Sep 13, 2012)

Shoot the whole house. Ceilings first then use a shield on the crown then doors / frames then walls. Touch up will be required but this is much faster and yields good results.
As for the hvac, turn it off while shooting!


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

I don't spray interiors if occupied, rarely when unoccupied. In my experience, with all the masking required, you don't really save time.


----------



## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

Jmayspaint said:


> It is nuts. Never the less in certain parts of the country spraying is still viewed with suspicion by painters and the public. I'm one of the only ones in my area who does it. Some if the bigger outfits do it, but many of them have made such big messes by giving inexperienced employees sprayers and telling them to figure it out, that the stigma is further reinforced.
> 
> I have literally had to convince many customers that pro spraying is often the best most efficient way to paint. So many people have had bad experiences with it because of untrained people trying to do it.


With improper prep and no regard for over spray  yup it does get a bad rap. We see many exterior re-paints done that way and they look like sh#t and don't last. We watched a very famous franchise company spraying away in drizzle rain and cold last week with HO"s cars in driveway


----------



## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

Starting a 4,000 sqft full interior repaint tomorrow. HO closed on it Wednesday. 10 guys,3 sprayers. Ceilings & closets flat white,all walls 1 color 200 egg,all crown,doors,frames,base,stairs,built-ins etc.. pro classic semi gloss white


----------



## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

aaron61 said:


> Starting a 4,000 sqft full interior repaint tomorrow. HO closed on it Wednesday. 10 guys,3 sprayers. Ceilings & closets flat white,all walls 1 color 200 egg,all crown,doors,frames,base,stairs,built-ins etc.. pro classic semi gloss white



If you have time, post up some details on the systems your guys use, maybe some pics. Always interested in how others do things.


----------



## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

I don't get out to the jobs much after they get goin,unless there's trouble,but if I were to guess they will drop the floors,cabinets,counter tops with plastic.Tack plastic at all widows & sliders,spray ceilings from the ground with extensions.Spray all trim,spray walls,pull all plastic then tighten it up


----------



## propainterJ (Jan 31, 2011)

Spray all doors/doortrim/crownmolding first,not the baseboards

Mask all that with nice clean lines

Spray all ceilings and closets

Tent off closets with plastic/mask 1 or 2 rows of 12" from crown out on ceilings

Spray walls,including baseboards/sllow to dry overnight/mask walls at base with frogtape as border/2020 with 12" on a masker to the frogtape/spray base two coats

tear down/tighten up

I spray most everything,including occupied interiors,have been for decades,haven't had a real problem yet,have never had a line explode inside or out,have never wiped out furniture,carpet,cabinets

Takes a lot of tape and paper and plastic

Just finished a 4,000 sq home in April where we refinished all her cabinets in a toned lacquer,taped off the cabinets and everything else,then repainted the whole place complete,by spray,while she lived there everynight,used her garage as a spray booth for cab doors/drawers/man doors

Of course we were there 5 weeks,but I still made good money there,going back for the exterior in late June

Just me and my Helper btw

There is no faster way to get the paint from the bucket to the substrate then spray..thats fact.


----------



## Professional Painter (Mar 15, 2014)

Jmayspaint said:


> If you have time, post up some details on the systems your guys use, maybe some pics. Always interested in how others do things.


Based upon an empty, reasonably clean 2K sq.ft. house using only water based paint throughout, no restoration or service(s) upgrades. Just a simple paint job;


*Day one* -

Remove all wire type closet shelving and clips, outlet plates, door stops, blinds, curtains and curtain rods, vents (if cleaning and/or painting, otherwise mask but not block airflow), lighting fixtures that take too long to properly mask or are too close to substrate that needs spraying, removable handrails, bathroom and powder room hardware, shower rods, all door strike plates, the middle (central) hinges, exterior door weatherstripping and possibly door sweeps, closet door ball catches and ball plates, recessed lighting bezels/refractors, washing machine and refrigerator cover plates, doorbell chime cover plate, smoke and carbon monoxide detectors, along with anything else that can be removed and easily put back to speed up the spraying process yet still provide professional results.

Clean/remove dust as needed on ALL areas.

Mask all fireplaces, additional lighting fixtures and chandeliers, intricacies too hard/labor intensive to clean from unintended or known trouble spots from overspray, remaining door hinges and door hardware***, alarm system hardware****, light switches, outlets, doorbell xnsfrmers and chime hardware, all toilet stop valve and supply tubes, shower arms, and escutcheon plates, bathroom vanities, kitchen cabinets***** (leaving kitchen counter tops unmasked but masked with 2" tape at edges, banister tops and ends******, all fine line edging against items not in a straight line that can be bladed off, all hardwood, stone, tile or laminate flooring within spray areas, all carpeted areas if crew inexperienced....otherwise a 12" paper masking with tape tucked in at trim/carpet, along with anything else that may need masking depending on crew/team experience. 

Please note that all of this is not an _absolute_ necessity depending on spraying/blading techniques but provides a good basis of spraying/masking techniques.

Sand all or digress all 3D substrate issues and apply 5 minute mud to all affected areas, followed by regular mud for final application. Do not sand. Caulk all areas that are in need of caulk. 

Spray all ceilings, doors, crown, wainscoting, columns or any other areas that are in the (usually) semi-gloss trim color. Wrap up for the day and allow all to dry overnight. No need to have precision painting at this point, both the ceiling and trim paint can hit the walls at will, provided the substrate isn't changed or any drips/rippling occur.

*Day Two - *

Sand all sheetrock repairs, double check caulked areas while cleaning up all sheetrock dust, recaulk if needed. Spray all walls being very precise. Depending on the level of service, if rolling is necessary or part of services provided, wait for the first coat to dry before applying the power rollers/rollers in action.

When all walls are dry, trim out all baseboard trim, blading off all but those areas that a blade (or custom blade) can not fit. Use excess paint on blade as a paint palette to finish these areas. Remove all masking, put back all items previously removed. Perform final tweaking with artists brush(s) in extreme tight areas along with precision tweaking of paint job throughout. Clear out equipment, clean and leave.

_________________________________________________________________________

This whole process typically takes 2 to 2.25 days based upon the a 2K sq. ft. house with 3 men on an 8 hour scheduled day. Even if all of the wall colors are a color change or extreme color change. There are of course exceptions, like if you add in a 4' ceiling repair with texture in a kitchen or excessive cleaning/caulking/restoration add ons but for a simple paint job with no frills, this is our standard process and timeline. 

Please keep in mind, our company offers much more than the "simple" paint job but *we make it VERY clear during bidding/negotiating that there is a vast difference between a simple paint job and restorative services.* Yes, we can make a 70 year old concrete wall into a level 5 finish. Yes, we can sand in between coats (if we did 3-4 coats), yes, we can sand, fill, resand and prime every nail hole on trim throughout the house that the original contractor/builder flew through, messed up on or completely omitted. Yes, we can prime all walls prior to final paint application to eliminate ghosting or sheen differences throughout or on what would be considered critical walls......and I could go on and on. All of these should not be considered as part of a typical paint job. It's a level of service the client can choose to pay for or omit from the scope of work to be performed. They just need to be made aware of beforehand that if certain aspects are omitted, then zero liability rests upon us to correct after services are rendered. 

These type of things are considered an upgrade in services or restoration. In many cases, _a completion_ of the original construction technique or substrate. I'm not talking about this type of work in this post. I'm referring to a simple paint job when the client wants to keep costs down. One color on walls, one color on trim and one color for ceilings. Just thought I should point that out so there is no confusion. 

For special situations, a painting standard or for a high end look, obviously the situation and price varies greatly. The thing is, I personally think that there is NO way a brush and roll could offer the same fine lines, quickness, end result or profit and time off that spraying can accomplish. 


*** There actually is a technique to mask off hinges while still being able to open and close doors a limited number of times (not hundreds) prior to painting. When time allows, I shall post this process.

**** Alarm systems can be damaged by certain masking techniques. Do some research before attempting to mask to reduce or eliminate any liability for alarm system malfunction(s).

***** Depends on the technical aspects.

****** If needed. This depends on crew/team experience along with ease of cleaning afterwards.

One other note I should mention. We have about 13 types of blades that we use to provide fine lines on ceilings, trim and walls. We also utilize more than one sprayer for certain applications. Many of the blades have been custom fitted to our operations or custom made from scratch. This greatly helps us in our streamlined operations. Please forgive me if I forgot any of the process but feel free to ask any questions if you wish to clarify.



propainter said:


> There is no faster way to get the paint from the bucket to the substrate then spray..thats fact.


Agreed.

Professional Painter


----------



## pro boca raton (May 3, 2014)

*My view*

I am a painter for nearly 10 years in boca raton fl and big inside jobs like the one I just finished 49 doors crown molding and baseboards I spray the ceiling first an then I do all the trim including crown molding and I rather cut back the over spray then cover the crown molding .
the base board I like to cover using a tape machine 1 inch blue tape and 6 inch paper not just to protect the baseboards from wall drips but for all the dust it accumulate in the top of the bases.

The paint that I like to use for trim is advance from ben it dries really fast I can tape the base on next day and leave for days when I pull it off I have no problems it dries hard almost like oil base after a few days and the finish is perfect.

After a cut the ceiling back I just have to roll the walls and don't forget I good prep guy is important in order to have good results.

Good luck with your project.


----------



## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

pro boca raton said:


> I am a painter for nearly 10 years in boca raton fl and big inside jobs like the one I just finished 49 doors crown molding and baseboards I spray the ceiling first an then I do all the trim including crown molding and I rather cut back the over spray then cover the crown molding .
> the base board I like to cover using a tape machine 1 inch blue tape and 6 inch paper not just to protect the baseboards from wall drips but for all the dust it accumulate in the top of the bases.
> 
> The paint that I like to use for trim is advance from ben it dries really fast I can tape the base on next day and leave for days when I pull it off I have no problems it dries hard almost like oil base after a few days and the finish is perfect.
> ...



I've found that to be true about Advance also. It's kind of odd given the long cure time of the product, but I never have problems taping it the next day.


----------



## dan_s (Dec 20, 2013)

*Here we go.*

Wanted to give a follow up. We got the bid on one, lost one and one is on hold. Today my helper and I vacuumed, masked the floors, windows, and took all fixtures out. Got real "lucky" with the prep. The whole upstairs carpet was demo'd by HO and there is paint everywhere on the floors and they will have them finished after us ( I tried to get them to have us last, but they said they will pay for touch ups after :thumbsup. We still covered them, not gonna make a habit of being sloppy. The base board was a good 1/8"-1/4" off the Hardwood, so the paper slid right under. Gonna spray trim and possibly the doors if the garage isn't a swamp (gonna rain tomorrow). 

We sold our 1 month old sprayer(440i) for enough money to buy new one and still make $50 (one of those deals). Its a 440i also, and this will be the first job. I just flushed the machine tonight. Hopefully I don't waste too much figuring what the pressure is. The last time I sprayed doors with ProClassic i seemed to have the pressure all the way up, tip is a 310 FF Graco in Rac X guard. Does anyone have this problem or am just up to high. I adjusted it till the "fingers" were gone. 

Thanks for everyone that responded, much appreciated.


----------



## Slopmeyer (Aug 2, 2009)

aaron61 said:


> Starting a 4,000 sqft full interior repaint tomorrow. HO closed on it Wednesday. 10 guys,3 sprayers. Ceilings & closets flat white,all walls 1 color 200 egg,all crown,doors,frames,base,stairs,built-ins etc.. pro classic semi gloss white


TEN guys I cant seem to keep one in this economy


----------



## SprayerMiken125 (Jan 11, 2013)

Id have to agree with everything here spray every chance u get! I made a post a few days ago about primer for porch hand rails HO , wich happend to be my inlaws expected me to hand paint about 100 pickets and everything inbetween. NOT! While they were gone at work one day earlier this week i had masked primed and 2 coats of finsh by the time they got home 
;D


----------



## SprayerMiken125 (Jan 11, 2013)

They even tryed to tell me every paint crew that they have seen in the area brushes the houses there. No wonder its so many crews after overhead and how long it would take how could any one make money?


----------

