# NEW - Emerald Urethane Enamel



## woodcoyote

Hey everyone. Haven't posted any new tech/paint stuff in awhile. 

Well...here is something new. Emerald, urethane enamel (interior/exterior). Attached are pictures and some data specs for those that are curious.

East coast guys might have this stuff already, not sure, but most places don't have this stuff just yet in stores.

If you all get your hands on it and use it, let us know your experience. Thanks in advance.


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## MikeCalifornia

You can bet its just repackaged ProIndustrial WB Alkyd Urethane. Maybe some slight tweaks, but the same. It won't be long before there is a Promar 200 version, then exterior Duration version.


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## 007 Dave

Oh brother , another Emerald product. One thing for sure, If it says Emerald on the label I won't be buying it. I'd rather use Promar 200.


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## getrex

Emerald... sounds like it should be good, but it's not. That said.. I would love an alternative to ProClassic oil trim paint. It hurts my brain. It would also be nice if it could just go right over the previous oil coat without any prep work.


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## kmp

Probably some of the technology from the Kwal urethane hybrid when sherwin bought them out a few years ago.


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## woodcoyote

Yah my first thought was: This is just WB alkyd U. Enamel repackaged. 

The data sheet reads something similar, but doesn't give as much details as the Wb alkyd Enamel. But we'll see, could be a Sher-Kwal product that has been reformulated and labeled. Who knows. I'm going to do a side by side with the two products once it becomes available and see if it's basically what everyone suspects. A relabel, but I guess we'll see.


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## PACman

$80 a gallon? $90 maybe? Urethane modified acrylic. Like Cabinet Coat and Ultraplate.


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## radio11

3 different SW reps have told me that Pro Ind Waterbased Alkyd Urethane was their cross/competition to BM Advance. I wondered aloud how so when it's in the back and marketed only to contractors and in commercial/industrial applications. This must be the final product for the residential market--simply repackaged and jacked way up in price. 

By the way, I'm having very good success with the PI product. I have no idea how it sprays, but for those who claim it doesn't brush and roll--not sure we're using the same product. It's like Advance without the learning curve. Lays out, no sagging, cures very hard (claims 5 pencil hardness) and you can actually go back several minutes later and rework it (unlike so many modern products). Someone in another thread mentioned it may be a Frazee product relabeled (after an acquisition). I certainly can't answer that. My cost is $9-11 less than Advance as well. 


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## radio11

PACman said:


> $80 a gallon? $90 maybe? Urethane modified acrylic. Like Cabinet Coat and Ultraplate.




Alkyd


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## PNW Painter

SW is offer contractors so many more options for trim paints compared to BM, PPG or any other mfg I can think of. Although, SW's products may not be the best in any specific category, it is nice being able spec different trim products based on the needs of a specific project.




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## Zoomer

I'm sure it's overpriced and underperforms.


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## Jerr

The pro industrial wb urethane is great. I will have to check this out. Thanks for sharing


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## Tprice2193

The pro industrial waterborne urethane alkyd and the emerald urethane alkyd are different. I have tested them side by side on some finished hardwood flooring. Both level good when brushed. Emerald covers better even though its thinner. Emerald cures faster and adheres faster. 72 hours in Emerald is not scratchable by fingernail Pro Industrial is easily scratched. Pro Industrial gets hard as glass after about 30 days. We will see on the Emerald. They also smell different. Clearly different stuff.


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## Woodco

Emerald doesnt mar as bad as cabinet coat. Thats all I know about it.


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## MikeCalifornia

I got a gallon from my rep to try. Good: Hides extremely well Bad: Dries pretty quick, slower then Proclassic latex, similar to Proclassic hybrid. Very dull sheen for a SG.


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## Betheweb

At the pro show, they let me try painting some white Emerald Urethane on black trim. It seemed to cover really well. If it covers that well over black, it must be awesome over white, right? In real life, not really. This is what we got, rolling Emerald Urethane on a pre-primed door. It looked better on the painted white doors, but still had gray areas. And I had to babysit it quite a bit, looking for runs.


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## PNW Painter

I'm viewing the pic of those doors on my phone, but it looks like you slathered the paint on with your hands instead of a roller.


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## PACman

PNW Painter said:


> I'm viewing the pic of those doors on my phone, but it looks like you slathered the paint on with your hands instead of a roller.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's.......kind of a common theme with certain SW products.


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## PACman

I'm confused again. Why would someone use a product that takes 72 hours to pass a fingernail scratch test? Oh wait, SW sells it. Never mind.


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## getrex

Sun spots.


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## Betheweb

PNW Painter said:


> I'm viewing the pic of those doors on my phone, but it looks like you slathered the paint on with your hands instead of a roller.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah. That's my point. I told him to put one coat. I guess it wasn't working so he got a little frantic. :vs_shocked:


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## Tprice2193

Emerald actually passed the scratch test for me in 24 hr maybe less. The proindustrial still scatches easily. If you have read the whole thread you will remember that I painted over prefinished oak hardwood flooring to provide a challenge. The proindustrial users are aware of the long cure times and Emerald urethane alkyd may have addressed this. At least enough for me to try it on trim and doors in a flipper. Like another poster said the semi gloss in both products is a little flatter than expected. I am taking my samples to My rep today to see what he has to say particularly about the sheen. They will probably comp me a gallon of gloss to try. Someone also said something about pro industrial being hard. On same hardwood flooring after full cure 30 days ROCK HARD couldn't scrape it with a knife. My cost is 48.00 per gallon for either..Have not used BM Advanced.


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## getrex

With a knife, eh? How likely is it that you will ever get a full cure on that before it starts getting abuse?


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## Tprice2193

Getrex: with this test to acceptable hardness. Emerald WB urethane alkyd next day/24 hr. Pro Industrial 12 days. I am trying the Emerald in a house now. The pro industrial will probably ruin before I find a use for it. I might try it Exterior on something of mine. Guess I could use it on crown because it matches the Emerald. My price is same for both.


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## getrex

So what did the rep say about the sheen?

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## woodcoyote

Tprice2193 said:


> I might try it Exterior on something of mine.


I think the urethane will help it all...but the data sheet says "resists yellowing". So I'm assuming the alkyd in both will eventually affect the overall look, especially on something like white. Just an assumption. 


I finally got to use the Emerald stuff just recently on a larger scale job. Interesting stuff, not quite the same as the ProIndustrial. The open time isn't as long, it dry/recoat time is sooner than ProIndustrial. 

It does pass a fingernail scratch test within 24 hours, not sure where the 72 hour remark came from, don't see that number listed anywhere. 

Does it dry hard enough? Enough* probably not to my liking, but still dries fairly hard. Not sure what the pencil hardness is, they don't state it, but I'm assuming its probably similar to ProIndustrial which I think is 2B. So not bad.

Edit:
Sheens are a bit "lower" than what is expected. Gloss rating is correct it's just on the lower scale of each sheen, so don't expect a semi-gloss to be very glossy in other words.


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## canopainting

I dont mess with Urethane, oil, pre-cat on any 5 star jobs any more. Ive been using SW WB PI Hi Performance Acrylic for years. It cures hard like oil, it has a fast re coat time and lays out perfect. I find the urethane has a slow cure dry time and is more temperature sensitive. Some times I will use Pro Classic also.


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## PardonMyPainting

woodcoyote said:


> Does it dry hard enough? Enough* probably not to my liking, but still dries fairly hard. Not sure what the pencil hardness is, they don't state it, but I'm assuming its probably similar to ProIndustrial which I think is 2B. So not bad.
> 
> Edit:
> Sheens are a bit "lower" than what is expected. Gloss rating is correct it's just on the lower scale of each sheen, so don't expect a semi-gloss to be very glossy in other words.



ProIndustrial is tested at pencil hardness of 5H (2nd highest). While the Emerald urethane is not listed it is definitely not as high. Though, it does perform well and still gets really hard. 

And you are right on about the sheens, they do run a slightly dull.

I feel the trade off is a quicker turnaround vs. more durable coating, both good in own right and have had great luck with both.


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## PardonMyPainting

Side note, the SW ProInd HP acrylic canopainting is using is rated more like a 2B.


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## woodcoyote

Very interesting. I could have sworn the ProIndustrial WB Alkyd had a 2B pencil hardness when it first came out. 

Read the data sheet just now and it does list it at 5H, which is super high surprisingly. 

The only thing that I don't like about the product is it has a tendency to sag, but the re-coat time is horrible. Might have to revisit this product, which is not hard because I have 4 gallons of it sitting around from my test drive when it first came out lol.


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## woodcoyote

This is a very* interesting note. I'm usually pretty good at remembering important information from data sheets, and I looked at a previous post I had made where I had looked at the data pages and posted the differences in the products.

Well...the data seems to have changed. The re-coat times are identical now. Weird. Previously the data page had listed 18 hours for re-coat on the Pro Industrial whereas with Emerald it said 4. Now they both say 4 hour re-coat. And even the volume solids is different. Hmm. Very strange. 

http://www.painttalk.com/f2/sw-catalyzed-epoxy-question-80601/index2/

My previous post:


woodcoyote said:


> A few things are different. The Emerald pds doesn't give too much more info than the basics, so it's hard to compare flexibility, etc.
> 
> A few difference:
> 
> 
> Recoat time. Emerald: 4 hrs. Wb Alkyd Urethane: 18 hrs.
> Emerald has addition of deep base. Extra White, Deep, Ultra. Wb Alkyd only has Extra White and Extra Deep.
> Emerald has addition of hi-hide white base. For lighter colors to hide better in 1 coat. WB Alkyd doesn't have that base either.
> 
> 
> Volume Solids. Emerald: 34%. WB Alkyd: 58%
> Temperature Application: Emerald: 50 degrees Wb Alkyd: 40 degrees.
> 
> 
> Those are just a few that popped out when I looked at the pds of the two.


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## woodcoyote

Okay. So I figured it out, kind of. I need to ask the reps about this tomorrow to see wth is going on. 

I knew I couldn't be that wrong, just no way.

Here's your answer and they have different data and rex numbers. 

5H Pencil Hardness, 4 hour info:
https://www.sherwin-williams.com/document/PDS/en/035777302668/

Original Data, 18 hour recoat, B pencil Hardness.
https://www.paintdocs.com/docs/webPDF.jsp?SITEID=STORECAT&doctype=PDS&lang=E&prodno=B54T154


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## PNW Painter

Paint mfg are constantly reformulating products, but with SW I feel that some of the reformulations are so massive that the products are almost unrecognizable after they've been reformulated. The Waterborne Alkyd Urethane is a perfect example of this.

I first used it in March 2016 and I remember thinking that it was the best waterborne trim product I'd ever brushed or sprayed. So I used it on a couple more projects with great results. 

At some point it was obviously reformulated. It became so thick that I needed to add a substantial amount of water just to brush it. Then I dealt with bubbles that formed in the wet film within a minute after spraying on two different projects. This was mostly concentrated in areas where filler had been used, but these areas were primed before they were painted. The issues bad enough that I stopped using the product because SW couldn't provide any explanation of why this would occur and blamed it on the filler, which was Elmers. 

Other than Duration Exterior, the lack of consistent performance with their products is why I've pretty much stopped buying their paints.

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## woodcoyote

Well long story short, it was a goof up on my end. 

There are TWO (2) types of ProIndustrial - Alkyd Urethane Enamel.

1 that says: Pro Industrial Waterbased Alkyd Urethane Enamel.

The other: Pro Industrial Alkyd Urethane Enamel. 

I simply miss read the titles and got the wrong info out there. My bad, operator error. But hey, at least I quoted the correct specs still.


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## woodcoyote

Okay so long story short, the only difference between Enamel and Pro Industrial Waterbased Urethane Enamel, are the color availability and the fact that Emerald has a hi-hide white base. 

Everything else will more than likely be the same.

P.S.
PI costs less, so ditch the emerald. No point unless you need a hi-hide white formula or a few extra colors which you probably won't use.


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## Tprice2193

I suggest you try both products PI WBAU and Emerald WBAU. I have found the Emerald covers better, flows out perfectly, adheres better, passes scratch test much faster, and cures to an acceptable hardness though not as hard as PI. The SG sheen in both products is on the lower end of the range. If you want a hard finish and can wait for it to cure use PI, otherwise Emerald is the choice of these two products.


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## getrex

Would a full gloss be closer to a true semi-gloss for these products?

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## woodcoyote

Tprice2193 said:


> I suggest you try both products PI WBAU and Emerald WBAU. I have found the Emerald covers better, flows out perfectly, adheres better, passes scratch test much faster, and cures to an acceptable hardness though not as hard as PI. The SG sheen in both products is on the lower end of the range. If you want a hard finish and can wait for it to cure use PI, otherwise Emerald is the choice of these two products.


I have used both. I think the PI levels better and does take a little more time to dry/cure out. 

Not sure about hiding ability, I've seen both do a decent job.

Schedule usually calls for:
Wall & Wood Primer (1 coat)
Emerald/PI (2 coats)

Done.


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## woodcoyote

getrex said:


> Would a full gloss be closer to a true semi-gloss for these products?
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


Yes that would be correct. 

If you want a very good gloss, then you'll have to switch products or clear coat over it, which kind of defeats the point. 

If you want a real good gloss, I'd suggest ProClassic Gloss or High Gloss. Doesn't dry as hard, feels a little smoother than these two, and dries faster. Just not as durable, but sheens are more accurate.


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## getrex

The whole point of this is to replace proclassic.

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## Tprice2193

Painted straight on primed trim the Emerald Gloss is glossier than any Semi I have used. It looks good and feels good lays down good. I dont have a lot of use for Proclassic anymore. I have sprayed quite a bit of Proclassic through HVLP on cabinets and doors. Have to thin with flotrol and water. Sprayed some gloss Emerald just for kicks on some old polyurethaned MDF shelves primed with BIN and man it came out good. Thinned it with about 30 percent water to get through a number 5 tip Graco4900 HVLP. The only issue was Gloss became SG with this much thinning. Will have to experiment with it to see if I can retain full gloss. Some of you airless or AAA sprayers could probably use it straight or 10 percent thinned.


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## getrex

At 30% aren't you risking some serious integrity issues? 

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## 007 Dave

I didn't think I would ever use this product ,but my sales rep has talked me into it. I've been using Pro classic and have always liked the way it performs. I hope I don't regret it. I'll be painting cabinets. I will prime them with oil base Kilz tomorrow and finish them Saturday with the Emerald urethane. I will be spraying it through a Titan 440. When I get a chance to get back on here I'll give a report.


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## Tprice2193

Getrex:. 30 percent thinning of emerald trim gloss for spraying in hvlp seemed to work fine. Frankly I was expecting problems. I thought it would break the oil in water emulsion but it didn't. I was just using a quart gun and thining it till it had a good pattern. It did affect the sheen. It turned the gloss to semi. It floated out and adhered well and dried hard. It looks fine after about 3 weeks. The shelves are going in a cupboard so they will get some abuse.


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## getrex

Interesting.. I suppose as long as it was white on white...

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## Tprice2193

007 dave:. I think you will like it given my limited experience with Emerald trim in an HVLP. I would not hesitate to thin it a bit (10 percent) with water or Flotrol. I am anxious to hear your results. Proclassic acrylic was my go to for a long time. My current preference is Sherwood Kem Aqua+ pigmented (big learning curve). I will probably try the Emerald trim on cabinets as well. Tried a few stripped Oak cabinet doors and they are looking decent without even being primed. I think I will prime with BIN to cover the grain a little better. Have to use filler if you want to hide the grain.


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## 007 Dave

Tprice2193 said:


> 007 dave:. I think you will like it given my limited experience with Emerald trim in an HVLP. I would not hesitate to thin it a bit (10 percent) with water or Flotrol. I am anxious to hear your results. Proclassic acrylic was my go to for a long time. My current preference is Sherwood Kem Aqua+ pigmented (big learning curve). I will probably try the Emerald trim on cabinets as well. Tried a few stripped Oak cabinet doors and they are looking decent without even being primed. I think I will prime with BIN to cover the grain a little better. Have to use filler if you want to hide the grain.


I'm not totally sold on it. Yet. It wasn't so terrible that I'm not ready to discard it either. I'll will probably try it on the next job. I did not thin it as you suggested. I don't mind thinning paint a little if it needs it but I for sure don't like thinning paint I'm using on cabinets because they take such a beating in a lot of houses. That is why I got rid of my HVLP , I felt I had to thin it to much when using water base. I brushed and rolled the cabinet frame and I don't think it covered as good as Pro Classic. The color I used was Pure White SW7005. So thats my take on the Emerald Urethane trim enamel.I'll give it a High C+ or a B-


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## woodcoyote

Tprice2193 said:


> My current preference is Sherwood Kem Aqua+ pigmented (big learning curve)


How does that compare to the emerald now that you've used it? Hearing some feedback would be interesting. I've never used the pigmented version.

The Kem Aqua Plus clear coat rocks. Stuff is pretty stout and dries hard. I like it for a clear coat.


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## Tprice2193

Comparing Emerald Trim vs Kem Aqua + pigmented for cabinet work. I have only done some testing on shelves and some oak cabinet doors with Emerald. I would give it a good B.. Not willing to give up my KA+ yet. Next set I do will be gray and I don't think they can get the KA+ that dark. If this is the case I will try Emerald trim. I will report back. I am waiting to evaluate Emerald more extensively on some of my personal projects before putting it in production.


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## Snackbar

The two paints Ive been using for cabinets is waterborne Rust Scat and Cabinet coat. Have any of you guys compared these two to the Emerald. Also I cant find the hardness for these two paints. Ive used Advance also but dont like the long drying time.


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## Henchman

I'm a homeowner, not a professional. 
I used the Emerald black and it came out very nice, if I say so myself. 
I sprayed it on using a Magnum airless sprayer.


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## jr.sr. painting

Just used advanced for the first time ever today. I know I'm late to the party but it wasn't all that I was hoping for. Used it in high gloss tinted to plain old black. Brushed out fine over grey fresh start (023) but the gloss is anything but "high". Used on a handrail hopefully a second coat brings the gloss level up


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## Charles G

SW Emerald Urethane Enamel (in semigloss) is by far the best trim and cabinet paint I’ve ever used

You still need to degloss, sand, clean, and oil prime your cabinets correctly before painting previously stained cabinets though. And I wait a full 3 days after priming before I paint, for maximum adhesion. I don’t want complaints

But it’s an amazing product. Beautiful, bright, hard, durable and bonds very well


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## Charles G

Henchman said:


> I'm a homeowner, not a professional.
> I used the Emerald black and it came out very nice, if I say so myself.
> I sprayed it on using a Magnum airless sprayer.


I don’t see any pics of you deglossing, sanding or priming, only the paint… hopefully you did this (degloss, sand, prime) before painting them right??..


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## Holland




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