# Scuff x, your thoughts?



## lilpaintchic

Just shot a bunch of cabs with it. Would love to have advance as a "go to" but it doesn't fit in with such a long recoat. Rep said "try this". Pretty happy with it. Looks sharp and feels real silky but I don't always fet to spray. Need to be able to roll/brush out all the new mdf doors (might get to spray those),case, base, ets. Any experiences worth sharing out in paint land? 

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## Wildbill7145

There was a thread a short while ago about this stuff that had quite a bit of info in it. I'll take a peek and see if I can find it.

Ok, it wasn't as lengthy a post as I thought. Some decent info tho.

http://www.painttalk.com/f2/re-bm-ultra-spec-scuff-x-87273/


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## thinkpainting/nick

It does spray well actually brushes rolls fine as well. As for wash ability or so called scuff proof who knows . Blocking may be an issue as well.


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## cocomonkeynuts

Been wondering the same thing my self. cabinets? I can't really think of a reason why not. I already know guys using it for doors and trim.

Rolls and brushes nicely smooth buttery, eggshell and satin show good leveling with my draw down rod, doesn't sag like aura. It doesn't cure as hard as CC or advance, and it is possible to mar if you kick it for example but it doesn't leave a mark like most acrylics will you practically have to damage the drywall to mar it. Really slick and washable its unlike any other product I have.

I know a few hotels an hospitals using it on walls/doors/trim. I have a few walls in my place with it and a few 2x2 drywall side by side with promar 200 for 'testing' (kick the board). Its real strength is in commercial settings that have short recoat cycles and that it touches up nicely. The hospital I mention in one test hallway went from 3-4 weeks sherscrub to 3 month scuffx...

Supposed to have a 'chip resistant' semigloss version sometime this summer.

~18 months ago I donated some satin for bathrooms in the local bus station, that sees lots of graffiti and bodily 'fluids'. Ill have to stop by and check it out soon.


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## cocomonkeynuts

lilpaintchic said:


> Just shot a bunch of cabs with it. Would love to have advance as a "go to" but it doesn't fit in with such a *long recoat.* Rep said "try this". Pretty happy with it. Looks sharp and feels real silky but I don't always fet to spray. Need to be able to roll/brush out all the new mdf doors (might get to spray those),case, base, ets. Any experiences worth sharing out in paint land?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


also new product. havn't tried it. 4 hour recoat. Tints on UTC not gennex
http://www.coronadopaint.com/produc...ucts/super-kote-5000-waterborne-acrylic-alkyd


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## lilpaintchic

cocomonkeynuts said:


> also new product. havn't tried it. 4 hour recoat. Tints on UTC not gennex
> http://www.coronadopaint.com/produc...ucts/super-kote-5000-waterborne-acrylic-alkyd


Ty. I gotta be able to chase the carpenter's most of the time and recoat is a big deal for me. I'll check this product out. Wasn't super impressed with sw pc hybrid....thats not satin much tho. I really do like theclook and feel of this scuff x though so far. Guess I'll have somewhat of a more formed opinion by the end of the week....

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## cocomonkeynuts

Also some pre-release info too: New Cabinet Coat coming ~mid June. premixed white and 1-4 bases. Still tint on UTC only due to the urethane component.

Also Aura interior will be getting a update soon too.

Can't share more info than that for now.


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## Mr Smith

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Also some pre-release info too: New Cabinet Coat coming ~mid June. premixed white and 1-4 bases.
> 
> Also Aura interior will be getting a update soon too.
> 
> Can't share more info than that for now.


CC needs a semi-gloss. Good to see them expanding their bases from just off-white.

What is the best roller cover to use with CC to reduce stipple texturing? I like to spray the cabinet doors and roll the boxes when using Cabinet Coat. I love the finish.


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## cocomonkeynuts

Mr Smith said:


> CC needs a *semi-gloss*. Good to see them expanding their bases from just off-white.
> 
> What is the best roller cover to use with CC to reduce stipple texturing? I like to spray the cabinet doors and roll the boxes when using Cabinet Coat. I love the finish.


CC comes in Satin and S/G already... but only pastel base.

Trick with CC is to lay it on thick and not play with it, first time I used CC was with the wooster red velvent and didn't put on at enough mils so it didn't have enough to level. wooster microplush or mohair. I'm not a pro with a brush but even I can make it look sprayed on MDF with a purdyXL. I once put it on a light switch cover with a brush at something like 6mil and can't even tell it was painted.


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## loaded brush

Personally for me I’d be hesitant to use Scuff X on cabinetry. It’s an Ultra Spec line which is a lower grade product. Glad to finally hear the release of more bases with Cabinet Coat. 30% of my painting business is painting cabinetry, either with CC or Waterborne Impervo. I hand brush my cabinet work and they both lay down to beautifully. Definitely need a deep base alternative to Advance. Few times I’ve needed the deep bases for cabinetry I’ve gone with Regal Select seems to work out well but I’d prefer an actual cabinet paint.


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## PACman

cocomonkeynuts said:


> CC comes in Satin and S/G already... but only pastel base.
> 
> Trick with CC is to lay it on thick and not play with it, first time I used CC was with the wooster red velvent and didn't put on at enough mils so it didn't have enough to level. wooster microplush or mohair. I'm not a pro with a brush but even I can make it look sprayed on MDF with a purdyXL. I once put it on a light switch cover with a brush at something like 6mil and can't even tell it was painted.


Cabinet coat Semigloss must be a regional product or something. It isn't in my product catalog and my rep says he has never seen it.


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## PACman

Oh, and use Ultraplate! (Heehee)


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## Mr Smith

cocomonkeynuts said:


> CC comes in Satin and S/G already... but only pastel base.
> 
> Trick with CC is to lay it on thick and not play with it, first time I used CC was with the wooster red velvent and didn't put on at enough mils so it didn't have enough to level. wooster microplush or mohair. I'm not a pro with a brush but even I can make it look sprayed on MDF with a purdyXL. I once put it on a light switch cover with a brush at something like 6mil and can't even tell it was painted.


Yeah I know, it levels out like glass when brushing it. I once did all the trim in a house with Cabinet Coat. I've tried to roll it on cabinet boxes and then back brush but it, but that didn't produce good results. Rolling always leaves a stipple texture. The same can be said of Advance. It levels out beautifully when brushing trim but rolling always leaves a texture. For some reason, it won't level out when applied by roller. Maybe the new types of roller covers work better. I used a 5MM Wooster Pro Dooz.

RE: Cabinet Coat. I did some old kitchen cabinets in CC about 8 years ago and I've had to go back for touchups twice because of chipping. I used STIX as the primer. Anyone else get that result? They look beautiful however but the chipping near the edges has never happened with other paints.


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## Mr Smith

lilpaintchic said:


> Just shot a bunch of cabs with it. Would love to have advance as a "go to" but it doesn't fit in with such a long recoat. Rep said "try this". Pretty happy with it. Looks sharp and feels real silky but I don't always fet to spray. Need to be able to roll/brush out all the new mdf doors (might get to spray those),case, base, ets. Any experiences worth sharing out in paint land?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


So what's the final verdict on using Scuff-X for cabinets? Would you use it again? I'd probably use the semi-gloss.


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## cocomonkeynuts

PACman said:


> Cabinet coat Semigloss must be a regional product or something. It isn't in my product catalog and my rep says he has never seen it.


Its not regional, most of the DC's stock it and you can always order it even if your DC doesn't stock a particular item it just usually ships separate. It wasn't listed in the now ancient 2015 catalog but is in the *2018*.

Already the 2018 catalog is outdated lol.

BTW I knew about this a while ago but it sounds like BM will soon have their own sundries program to compete with companies with wholesalers like lancaster and PSS, with *very *competitive pricing. I really like my PSS rep but... I guess we will see.


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## Mr Smith

One of the biggest Benjamin Moore stores in my city stopped carrying Cabinet Coat. In fact, only a few still carry it because it doesn't sell. None have ever stocked the semi-gloss. Good thing to know that you can order it.


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## loaded brush

Mr Smith said:


> One of the biggest Benjamin Moore stores in my city stopped carrying Cabinet Coat. In fact, only a few still carry it because it doesn't sell. None have ever stocked the semi-gloss. Good thing to know that you can order it.


It didn’t sell because of a lack of sheens and mid to deep bases. With those being added I’ve got a feeling it’s going to outsell Advance. Recoat time is so much quicker and it dries harder than Advance.


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## cocomonkeynuts

Mr Smith said:


> Yeah I know, it levels out like glass when brushing it. I once did all the trim in a house with Cabinet Coat. I've tried to roll it on cabinet boxes and then back brush but it, but that didn't produce good results. Rolling always leaves a stipple texture. The same can be said of Advance. It levels out beautifully when brushing trim but rolling always leaves a texture. For some reason, it won't level out when applied by roller. Maybe the new types of roller covers work better. I used a 5MM Wooster Pro Dooz.
> 
> RE: Cabinet Coat. I did some old kitchen cabinets in CC about 8 years ago and I've had to go back for touchups twice because of chipping. I used STIX as the primer. Anyone else get that result? They look beautiful however but the chipping near the edges has never happened with other paints.


Had the same experience rolling with the red velvet roller, stipple but I was trying for thin coats. I found CC lays on better with a heavier mil. Microplush roller is ideal but have work quick because it sets up so fast, not sure you would have time to backbrush after rolling. I really want to try it with a polyamide like the supertwist cover.


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## lilpaintchic

Mr Smith said:


> So what's the final verdict on using Scuff-X for cabinets? Would you use it again? I'd probably use the semi-gloss.


im definitkey happy with it on the cabs and absolutely would use it again. I think semigloss would be too shiny.

I'm gonna use it on the rest of the trim on this project. Roll and brush the case and base and shoot the doors. Everything's in satin. I'm happy with the sheen. Definitely significantly more sheen than say, pc satin. I'll know more by the end of next week. Just finishing up running case hopefully tomorrow then on to filling and caulking. Scuffx does seem pretty thin compared to a typical latex... More like a heavy bodied solid stain kinda. I turned my pressure down a lot shooting the cab doors. And noticed it has a different consistency while rolling and cutting the boxes. Easy to work with and covers well so far. Stock white boosted....will update when I have more info but so far so good. The store kicked down a bunch to demo maybe yours will do the same?

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## cocomonkeynuts

lilpaintchic said:


> im definitkey happy with it on the cabs and absolutely would use it again. I think semigloss would be too shiny.
> 
> I'm gonna use it on the rest of the trim on this project. Roll and brush the case and base and shoot the doors. Everything's in satin. I'm happy with the sheen. Definitely significantly more sheen than say, pc satin. I'll know more by the end of next week. Just finishing up running case hopefully tomorrow then on to filling and caulking. Scuffx does seem pretty thin compared to a typical latex... More like a heavy bodied solid stain kinda. I turned my pressure down a lot shooting the cab doors. And noticed it has a different consistency while rolling and cutting the boxes. Easy to work with and covers well so far. Stock white boosted....will update when I have more info but so far so good. The store kicked down a bunch to demo maybe yours will do the same?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


I get the feeling that most reps are more than happy to demo this product, we get credited for them so doesn't hurt to ask for a demo (any product really)


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## Ubercorey

Cabinet Coat is the bomb. Better than Breakthrough. Im not sure why you would want to use Scuff x on woodwork over Cc or BT...?


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## PNW Painter

One of my favorite aspects of cabinet coat is how much it builds. It does an excellent job of hiding underlying imperfections, unlike Advance that shows every imperfection. 


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## sayn3ver

Regarding wall application, has anyone applied the matte scuff x? TDS says it has roughly double the sheen of regal select matte. 

Real world, does the scuff x matte finish look like a lower sheen eggshell? And if so does it gain much in durability over the other gennex matte finishes by BM? 

I'm not an aura fan. Even the bath and spa looks nice and creamy near a head on view and has great feel, wipes up ok but the side sheen look has been inconsistent for me. Cheap eggshells at least have a consistent sheen in the same situation. The aura always seems to have inconsistent sheen even tho I cannot find any physical differences of the wall surface on close visual and tactile inspection. 

Looking for a product that I can push for customers with kids or dogs that is less shiney than most eggshells for hallways and kids rooms or hell open concept spaces where kitchen/eating spaces like peninsulas or eat at counter runs run into living room spaces.


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## cocomonkeynuts

sayn3ver said:


> Regarding wall application, has anyone applied the matte scuff x? TDS says it has roughly double the sheen of regal select matte.
> 
> Real world, does the scuff x matte finish look like a lower sheen eggshell? And if so does it gain much in durability over the other gennex matte finishes by BM?
> 
> I'm not an aura fan. Even the bath and spa looks nice and creamy near a head on view and has great feel, wipes up ok but the side sheen look has been inconsistent for me. Cheap eggshells at least have a consistent sheen in the same situation. The aura always seems to have inconsistent sheen even tho I cannot find any physical differences of the wall surface on close visual and tactile inspection.
> 
> Looking for a product that I can push for customers with kids or dogs that is less shiney than most eggshells for hallways and kids rooms or hell open concept spaces where kitchen/eating spaces like peninsulas or eat at counter runs run into living room spaces.


http://www.painttalk.com/f2/re-bm-ultra-spec-scuff-x-87273/#post1565297


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## PNW Painter

Scuff-X Matte definitely has more sheen than Regal Select Eggshell and a lot higher sheen than Aura Bath and Spa. 

One thing that amazed me about Scuff-X is how hard it is once it’s dry to the touch. It also touches up very well. 

My BM rep said that she knows about 14 painting companies that have switched from Advance to Scuff-X. I’m not sure which sheen they’re using, but she said they’re so happy with Scuff-X that they don’t want to go back to Advance. I also asked how Scuff-X compares to Cabinet Coat and she said the performance characteristics are very similar, but Scuff-X is about $10 less per gallon.


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## NACE

sayn3ver said:


> Regarding wall application, has anyone applied the matte scuff x? TDS says it has roughly double the sheen of regal select matte.
> 
> Real world, does the scuff x matte finish look like a lower sheen eggshell? And if so does it gain much in durability over the other gennex matte finishes by BM?
> 
> I'm not an aura fan. Even the bath and spa looks nice and creamy near a head on view and has great feel, wipes up ok but the side sheen look has been inconsistent for me. Cheap eggshells at least have a consistent sheen in the same situation. The aura always seems to have inconsistent sheen even tho I cannot find any physical differences of the wall surface on close visual and tactile inspection.
> 
> Looking for a product that I can push for customers with kids or dogs that is less shiney than most eggshells for hallways and kids rooms or hell open concept spaces where kitchen/eating spaces like peninsulas or eat at counter runs run into living room spaces.


I have painted a bedroom with the matte. The initial sheen was Eggshell however it’s has settled to a true Matte after 3 weeks. The Satin on the trim and in the mud room cubbies is highly scuff resistant and slippery feel. Leveled as well as any products including advance. As for its market position as an Ultra Spec product; this was created to compete with Scuff Master a two component acrylic paint used on large commercial projects. Since Scuff X is substantially less expensive and does not have a pot life but in no way is the quality compromised. Scuff X fits into a commercial category not residential but it’s benefits fit the residential market because of its ease of use, price, and no pot life. BM doesn’t want it to compete with its Regal and Aura brands but obviously it’s cutting into those categories.


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## Mr Smith

PNW Painter said:


> One of my favorite aspects of cabinet coat is how much it builds. It does an excellent job of hiding underlying imperfections, unlike Advance that shows every imperfection.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I haven't used cabinet coat since I sprayed some bathroom cabinet doors vertically (and box) a few years ago. It ran on me in 4-5 places and the customer had to call me back. So embarrassing. It probably took forever to run and it was my mistake for assuming everything was OK.

Years ago I did their Kitchen cabinets with an HVLP and they came out great. Lots of reducing with water and sprayed them flat. I rolled the boxes.

I should give Cabinet Coat another chance but that freaked me out. I've also had to go back and touch up these kitchen cabinets twice for chipping around the sides. I used Stix as a primer. It does touch-up up great with a brush.

The Benjamin Moore store I deal with stopped carrying it a few years ago but I know of one that still sells it.


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## Mr Smith

NACE said:


> I have painted a bedroom with the matte. The initial sheen was Eggshell however it’s has settled to a true Matte after 3 weeks. The Satin on the trim and in the mud room cubbies is highly scuff resistant and slippery feel. Leveled as well as any products including advance. As for its market position as an Ultra Spec product; this was created to compete with Scuff Master a two component acrylic paint used on large commercial projects. Since Scuff X is substantially less expensive and does not have a pot life but in no way is the quality compromised. Scuff X fits into a commercial category not residential but it’s benefits fit the residential market because of its ease of use, price, and no pot life. BM doesn’t want it to compete with its Regal and Aura brands but obviously it’s cutting into those categories.


Would you ever use Scuff-X as your go-to trim and door paint?

I love the open time of the Regal Select (interior), especially when I add a bit of 'extender' to it. I use the Wooster Micro Plush 5/16" and frames level out like it's sprayed.

When it was introduced to the market a dealer said the Scuff-X levels out great too but I didn't believe him. (I thought he was just "selling" me on a new product to try)

After reading your testimonial, I'm going to try it on trim and/or doors when brushing & rolling. It's about the same price as Regal Select in my area.

What sheen is similar to semi-gloss or pearl?


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## cocomonkeynuts

Mr Smith said:


> Would you ever use Scuff-X as your go-to trim and door paint?
> 
> I love the open time of the Regal Select (interior), especially when I add a bit of 'extender' to it. I use the Wooster Micro Plush 5/16" and frames level out like it's sprayed.
> 
> When it was introduced to the market a dealer said the Scuff-X levels out great too but I didn't believe him. (I thought he was just "selling" me on a new product to try)
> 
> After reading your testimonial, I'm going to try it on trim and/or doors when brushing & rolling. It's about the same price as Regal Select in my area.
> 
> What sheen is similar to semi-gloss or pearl?


I think the scuff-eggshell looks pretty close to regal pearl. semi-gloss scuff-x coming 'soon' 

And yeah it really does level very nicely, rolls on butter smooth and great coverage


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## cocomonkeynuts

NACE said:


> BM doesn’t want it to compete with its Regal and Aura brands but obviously it’s cutting into those categories.


One of my painters just did a 5000sqft house in scuffx so definitely its cutting into regal/aura market. The marketing team should have thought about that before they released a better performing coating at the same price. scuff-x is quickly becoming BM's #1 product. My DC is supposedly stocking more of it than ultraspec500.


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## NACE

Mr Smith said:


> Would you ever use Scuff-X as your go-to trim and door paint?
> 
> I love the open time of the Regal Select (interior), especially when I add a bit of 'extender' to it. I use the Wooster Micro Plush 5/16" and frames level out like it's sprayed.
> 
> When it was introduced to the market a dealer said the Scuff-X levels out great too but I didn't believe him. (I thought he was just "selling" me on a new product to try)
> 
> After reading your testimonial, I'm going to try it on trim and/or doors when brushing & rolling. It's about the same price as Regal Select in my area.
> 
> What sheen is similar to semi-gloss or pearl?


I didn't find a huge learning curve and found it had similar handling characteristics to Regal Select, even the Satin was like old Regal AquaGlo. Sheen develops over time. It’s too high initially then tones down like oil based Satin Impervo. Matte was a little smoother then Regal Matte which I find a little grainy. I’m sure Moore’s thought about Scuff X tearing into Regal and Aura Sales however not sure how the hide measures up in darker colors. Good luck with your test.


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## cocomonkeynuts

Mr Smith said:


> One of the biggest Benjamin Moore stores in my city stopped carrying Cabinet Coat. In fact, only a few still carry it because it doesn't sell. None have ever stocked the semi-gloss. Good thing to know that you can order it.


Not only can you special order anything (some restrictions..) even if your suppliers DC doesn't carry it, you can also factory tint items like polyamide epoxy if your supplier doesn't carry industrial colorants. They can also ship via UPS and contrary to what they may tell you, you can order a partial case.


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## dwallon60

Mr Smith said:


> One of the biggest Benjamin Moore stores in my city stopped carrying Cabinet Coat. In fact, only a few still carry it because it doesn't sell. None have ever stocked the semi-gloss. Good thing to know that you can order it.


The biggest concern I had with carrying CC is that Insl-X claims that you don't need primer on properly prepared surfaces and who needs that opening to drive through. I have painted some test doors with it using Coverstain as a base coat after sanding and it seems great.


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## Mr Smith

dwallon60 said:


> The biggest concern I had with carrying CC is that Insl-X claims that you don't need primer on properly prepared surfaces and who needs that opening to drive through. I have painted some test doors with it using Coverstain as a base coat after sanding and it seems great.


Some painters in here claim it mars easily? What has your experience shown you?

I've never followed their suggestion of not using a primer coat. I think PPG's Breakthrough suggested the same thing originally. I use Bin or Stix before painting cabinets.


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## sayn3ver

It doesn't mar per say but is it's sheen is easily changed imho. It gets marked from non sharp metals easily too. Of course I never came back to a job after a full cure to test it out.

But im used to using breakthrough and it's characteristics immediately after drying. It's a paint that I never have concerns about blocking or adhesion under typical circumstances (over a properly prepared and primed surface I never had breakthrough come off during denasking or any other way). Can easily handle/hang a door after it dries to the touch. 

Cabinet coat sprays out well (will run/sag on verticals and edges easily). What I mean is that it wets out and lays out without any thinning or fussing very well. It looks good off the gun. I spray with a .x08 tip on vettical/installed trim with cabinet coat. I get some tip sheer with the .08 which knocks the sheen down some buy definitely eliminates runs with it. 





Mr Smith said:


> dwallon60 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The biggest concern I had with carrying CC is that Insl-X claims that you don't need primer on properly prepared surfaces and who needs that opening to drive through. I have painted some test doors with it using Coverstain as a base coat after sanding and it seems great.
> 
> 
> 
> Some painters in here claim it mars easily? What has your experience shown you?
> 
> I've never followed their suggestion of not using a primer coat. I think PPG's Breakthrough suggested the same thing originally. I use Bin or Stix before painting cabinets.
Click to expand...


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## Rbriggs82

So there been some talk about scuffx on cabinets so I'm going to put it the test. Just closed on a house and I'm going to be painting the cabinets and vanities.

In the kitchen I'm going to use my standard higher VOC breakthrough. In the kids bath and master bath I'm going to give the scuffx a shot to see how it holds up long term, should be interesting. I much prefer learning lessons on my own house than a customers. :yes:

I'll let you all know how it goes with some pics. 

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## lilpaintchic

Rbriggs82 said:


> So there been some talk about scuffx on cabinets so I'm going to put it the test. Just closed on a house and I'm going to be painting the cabinets and vanities.
> 
> In the kitchen I'm going to use my standard higher VOC breakthrough. In the kids bath and master bath I'm going to give the scuffx a shot to see how it holds up long term, should be interesting. I much prefer learning lessons on my own house than a customers. :yes:
> 
> I'll let you all know how it goes with some pics.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


And congratulations on the new digs!

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## Tprice2193

@Rbriggs82 - Buying a house in Charleston these days is a sign of a very successful business! Congratulations!


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## thinkpainting/nick

IMHO having used quite a bit of Scuff-X. It’s not gonna hold up any different or better than any other enamel ( waterbornes latex ). It would not be my first choice . Again it sprays nice be it air or HVLP. I’ve done both. Brushes well and what we primarily use it for on trim.


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## thinkpainting/nick

Rbriggs82 said:


> So there been some talk about scuffx on cabinets so I'm going to put it the test. Just closed on a house and I'm going to be painting the cabinets and vanities.
> 
> In the kitchen I'm going to use my standard higher VOC breakthrough. In the kids bath and master bath I'm going to give the scuffx a shot to see how it holds up long term, should be interesting. I much prefer learning lessons on my own house than a customers. :yes:
> 
> I'll let you all know how it goes with some pics.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


So did ya use scuff on the cabs ? Congrats n the house. I know I’m late


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## ridesarize

I was looking into this thread because I am doing some pre research for a little cabinet job I'll be painting. I was thinking I'll skip the Advance this time, maybe go with CC or Scuff x, and had forgot about hearing about Corotech. 



Customer wants a nice, durable low sheen in a color like Meteor Shower, (deep blue, yet vibrant like cobalt)... i may go cabinet coat satin... should I consider corotech or scuff x for any good reasons? I know corotech is very durable, but is it overkill or too shiny?


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## cocomonkeynuts

which corotech product are you referring?


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## ridesarize

cocomonkeynuts said:


> which corotech product are you referring?


Maybe the water reducible Alkyd enamel or? Your recommendation? Should i keep it simpler with CC?


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## cocomonkeynuts

ridesarize said:


> Maybe the water reducible Alkyd enamel or? Your recommendation? Should i keep it simpler with CC?



That product is meant to be used in more industrial settings. Fast recoat but comes Gloss only. Not going to have that rich low lustre look that your after. I don't think corotech has anything _at the moment_ really in that category.


There is the coronado SK5000 Alkyd/Acrylic. That has a satin sheen that I brushed out. Its very similar look to advance but with 4 hour recoat and 10 day full cure. IMO this is a pretty damn good paint for ~$30. I did also note that it has similar build characteristics as advance in that it shows minor surface imperfections easy.


I really like cabinet coat but I havn't had a chance to try out any of the deep bases yet. I stock all of the bases but its a relatively unknown product around here.


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## ridesarize

cocomonkeynuts said:


> That product is meant to be used in more industrial settings. Fast recoat but comes Gloss only. Not going to have that rich low lustre look that your after. I don't think corotech has anything _at the moment_ really in that category.
> 
> 
> There is the coronado SK5000 Alkyd/Acrylic. That has a satin sheen that I brushed out. Its very similar look to advance but with 4 hour recoat and 10 day full cure. IMO this is a pretty damn good paint for ~$30. I did also note that it has similar build characteristics as advance in that it shows minor surface imperfections easy.
> 
> 
> I really like cabinet coat but I havn't had a chance to try out any of the deep bases yet. I stock all of the bases but its a relatively unknown product around here.


Okay thanks. I checked that out. Good chance I'll go with CC, client has several pictures of kitchens with deep blue cabs, and liked those a ton. Then I brought over that Cabinet Coat brochure that happened to have the Meteor Shower color featured on cabinets right on the cover.


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## cocomonkeynuts

ridesarize said:


> Maybe the water reducible Alkyd enamel or? Your recommendation? Should i keep it simpler with CC?



I have also heard from other dealers that SK5000 paired with the lenmar waterborne undercoater has been a good system. Supposedly you can spray and sand on it right away.


http://www.lenmar-coatings.com/prod...ralaq-wb-waterborne-white-acrylic-undercoater


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## cocomonkeynuts

ridesarize said:


> Okay thanks. I checked that out. Good chance I'll go with CC, client has several pictures of kitchens with deep blue cabs, and liked those a ton. Then I brought over that Cabinet Coat brochure with that happened to have the Meteor Shower color featured on cabinets.



Please post a review! Cabinet coat also had a price reduction recently if you wern't aware already. About 10%.


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## PNW Painter

My only question in terms of using Scuff-X on cabinets is how it holds up to household cleaners and foods such as mustard that might cause staining.

Plus, most deep base colors take a very long time to harden compared to whites. In particular I’m thinking about Advance. 

If it were me I’d consider using SW HydroPlus or Kem Aqua Plus followed by two coats of either products clear. Other mfg’s such as Lenmar make similar products, but I don’t have any first hand experience using them.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## PNW Painter

cocomonkeynuts said:


> I have also heard from other dealers that SK5000 paired with the lenmar waterborne undercoater has been a good system. Supposedly you can spray and sand on it right away.
> 
> 
> http://www.lenmar-coatings.com/prod...ralaq-wb-waterborne-white-acrylic-undercoater



Do you know if the Duralaq uncoater contains Isocyanates. I didn’t see isocyanates listed on the data, but wanted to make sure I didn’t skip over reading that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cocomonkeynuts

PNW Painter said:


> Do you know if the Duralaq uncoater contains Isocyanates. I didn’t see isocyanates listed on the data, but wanted to make sure I didn’t skip over reading that.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



The 1WB.20x series do not contain isocyanates.


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## Greg Mrakich

I ve recoated Advance after four hours and the world did not end. If people have kids, dogs etc ScuffX is great because they can do touch ups as needed that are not visible from space. Not so with Advance. Aura works well too. Its more of a question of what you are putting the paint through once it is on and cured.


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## Dellboy

All I use now on all my kitchen units is Scuff-x Eggshell.
Brushes out lovely and having a quick recoated time is ideal.
Holds up well and not yet had any customers mention any problems when cleaning down.
Just wish they sold it in smaller tins, over here in the UK you can only get it in gallons, not sure if that’s the same in the US ?


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## cocomonkeynuts

Dellboy said:


> All I use now on all my kitchen units is Scuff-x Eggshell.
> Brushes out lovely and having a quick recoated time is ideal.
> Holds up well and not yet had any customers mention any problems when cleaning down.
> Just wish they sold it in smaller tins, over here in the UK you can only get it in gallons, not sure if that’s the same in the US ?



Available in gallons and 5's. Not available in quarts just like any other product marketed towards commercial.


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## Greatpaintguy

For you all looking for a great coating for cabinets and or doors and trim. This product is a game changing coating at this time we have well over 250 custom built kitchens and or bathroom cabinets that have been coated with scuffxpaint. Any questions that you might have...please let me know. Jon


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## Rbriggs82

Greatpaintguy said:


> For you all looking for a great coating for cabinets and or doors and trim. This product is a game changing coating at this time we have well over 250 custom built kitchens and or bathroom cabinets that have been coated with scuffxpaint. Any questions that you might have...please let me know. Jon


How does it hold up long term to oils from people's hands? 

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## loaded brush

Still wouldn't be comfortable using Scuff X on cabinets.1. BM does not market it as a trim or cabinet paint. 2. Its too new of a product to know what the long term results would be, so personally I wouldn't want to test it on client's homes. 3. All of my BM store managers and reps that serve multiple locations all agree its not a product for and advise against it for cabinetry. I guess time will tell whereas to Suff X truly shines in its niche, but for now, being that the BM Co. does not market or advertise it as a cabinet finish, and all my suppliers advise against it, I'll pass on it. That being said Cabinet Coat is my go to product. Dont have one negative issue with it. A beautiful product to work with, with stellar end results. And now with more sheens and all bases available, allows me to ditch Advance when a prior deep base was needed, eliminating the ridiculous recoat and cure times Advance deep bases needed, usually 2-3 times longer than label recommends, which sometimes took 30-90 days for any hardness to be achieved. SMH


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## lilpaintchic

Rbriggs82 said:


> How does it hold up long term to oils from people's hands?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


I'm repainting over the pc in my home at present. I'll let ya know how scuffx performs after I thoroughly test its limitations. pc failed miserably round the knob in the bathroom but otherwise is holding. I just hate how gritty the satin is compared to scuffx....and I'm done with sw.
I can be pretty tough on paint at my place puttingbsomecareas through the wringer...lol yay dogs!

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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## Rbriggs82

lilpaintchic said:


> I'm repainting over the pc in my home at present. I'll let ya know how scuffx performs after I thoroughly test its limitations. pc failed miserably round the knob in the bathroom but otherwise is holding. I just hate how gritty the satin is compared to scuffx....and I'm done with sw.
> I can be pretty tough on paint at my place puttingbsomecareas through the wringer...lol yay dogs!
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


I hate how pc feels in any sheen. It looks nice until you touch it and it feels like cheap flat paint. 

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## 804 Paint

loaded brush said:


> Still wouldn't be comfortable using Scuff X on cabinets.1. BM does not market it as a trim or cabinet paint. 2. Its too new of a product to know what the long term results would be, so personally I wouldn't want to test it on client's homes. 3. All of my BM store managers and reps that serve multiple locations all agree its not a product for and advise against it for cabinetry. I guess time will tell whereas to Suff X truly shines in its niche, but for now, being that the BM Co. does not market or advertise it as a cabinet finish, and all my suppliers advise against it, I'll pass on it. That being said Cabinet Coat is my go to product. Dont have one negative issue with it. A beautiful product to work with, with stellar end results. And now with more sheens and all bases available, allows me to ditch Advance when a prior deep base was needed, eliminating the ridiculous recoat and cure times Advance deep bases needed, usually 2-3 times longer than label recommends, which sometimes took 30-90 days for any hardness to be achieved. SMH




Lightly rake your wedding band across something painted with Cabinet Coat and try to get the mark it created off. There’s your negative issue.


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## Woodco

804 Paint said:


> Lightly rake your wedding band across something painted with Cabinet Coat and try to get the mark it created off. There’s your negative issue.


Not even that. Lightly run the back of a fingernail...

I use it anyway, though.


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## paintball head

I have a number of Taco Bells I work on, there is one that has had an issue with a hallway that the food delivery company has to stack their boxes in twice a week. The boxes would leave scuff marks all along this wall and I would be called to re-paint this same wall and some others about once a month(dark color in Duration satin). The last time they called I used Scuff-X satin, that was about 6 months ago, it does what they say it does.

I have also used the Scuff-X on a trim package for a very difficult customer, I sprayed this same package with 4 different products and she was finally happy with Scuff-X, it was all about how the finish feels to her. I also used it on the the windows and some trim that I didn't spray, brushes out nice and is easy to work with. 

Disclaimer...I do not work for BM


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## PNW Painter

I just sprayed two coats of Scuff-X Satin on a trim pack today. This only confirmed my thoughts that Scuff-X is one of the best trim paints on the market.

After about 3 hours of dry time it was easy to sand a few dust nibs and rough spots. It also sanded to a powder. Awesome!!!

Compared to Advance it’s also very forgiving to apply. It has excellent vertical hang and doesn’t run or sag very easily. After two coats I didn’t see a single run or sag. Usually I have 1 or 2 runs since I apply as heavy a coat as possible.


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## Mr Smith

I just sprayed about 25 doors and bushed and rolled all the trim. It sprays excellently.

One complaint is the white didn't cover that well when brushing trim in a pearl finish. I say that about all white paint. It covered well when rolling but brushing is another matter. it's probably no worse than most whites.

I didn't know that they sold Scuff X in satin. The local BM paint store owner says the pearl finish is the satin.

In my opinion, the Regal Select still has a better finish when rolling with a micro plush mini roller. It lays down better than the Scuff X (with less of a stipple texture), but the Scuff X has a much harder finish. If spraying go with the Scuff X for sure.


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## hammerhead

why dont they have semi?


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## cocomonkeynuts

hammerhead said:


> why dont they have semi?


Coming Soon...


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## cocomonkeynuts

Mr Smith said:


> I just sprayed about 25 doors and bushed and rolled all the trim. It sprays excellently.
> 
> One complaint is the white didn't cover that well when brushing trim in a pearl finish. I say that about all white paint. It covered well when rolling but brushing is another matter. it's probably no worse than most whites.
> 
> I didn't know that they sold Scuff X in satin. The local BM paint store owner says the pearl finish is the satin.
> 
> In my opinion, the Regal Select still has a better finish when rolling with a micro plush mini roller. It lays down better than the Scuff X (with less of a stipple texture), but the Scuff X has a much harder finish. If spraying go with the Scuff X for sure.


Try the 3/16 prodoozftp instead of microplush. I have had better results with those using advance and the sk5000. Advance seems to orange peel even with microplush. I suspect because it doesn't put on enough material for the product to level its self properly.


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## hammerhead

how would Scuff-X work on a set of steps. i have a customer that removed the carpet and now wants the treads painted.


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## PNW Painter

What tape are people using to mask freshly painted Scuff-X?

After drying over night I used yellow frog tape to mask all the trim so I can shoot the walls. The tape seemed to stick well when I put it on, but after sitting over night I noticed that the tape isn’t sticking in a few areas.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## lilpaintchic

PNW Painter said:


> What tape are people using to mask freshly painted Scuff-X?
> 
> After drying over night I used yellow frog tape to mask all the trim so I can shoot the walls. The tape seemed to stick well when I put it on, but after sitting over night I noticed that the tape isn’t sticking in a few areas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The paint is still curing and releasing moisture. That's why it falls off. Honestly, if your prep is solid, I'd just use the ipg green or pg 5.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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## cocomonkeynuts

PNW Painter said:


> What tape are people using to mask freshly painted Scuff-X?
> 
> After drying over night I used yellow frog tape to mask all the trim so I can shoot the walls. The tape seemed to stick well when I put it on, but after sitting over night I noticed that the tape isn’t sticking in a few areas.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 @*lilpaintchic* I used to carry IPG. Too many complaints especially from the PG505. Back to 3M for me.



Frog Yellow tape is a 'delicate surface' tape. Low tack. Everyone here uses 3M 2020 for general masking. If your dead set on frog tape use the green frog.


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## 804 Paint

One other thing about Scuff X I haven’t seen mentioned here is it’s amazing adhesion properties. It sticks to anything. I only prime when using it if tannin bleed might be an issue. 

I’d have no reservation masking with 2020. 


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## PNW Painter

cocomonkeynuts said:


> @*lilpaintchic* I used to carry IPG. Too many complaints especially from the PG505. Back to 3M for me.
> 
> 
> 
> Frog Yellow tape is a 'delicate surface' tape. Low tack. Everyone here uses 3M 2020 for general masking. If your dead set on frog tape use the green frog.




I’m not dead set on using frog tape, but I’ve had good luck with it in the past masking trim. Very little bleeding with the yellow. I’ve found it either sticks well or not at all.

The tape will be on the trim for 3-6 days, so I probably wouldn’t use 2020. I’ll test some ipg and 3m on the next job.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## lilpaintchic

cocomonkeynuts said:


> @*lilpaintchic* I used to carry IPG. Too many complaints especially from the PG505. Back to 3M for me.
> 
> 
> 
> Frog Yellow tape is a 'delicate surface' tape. Low tack. Everyone here uses 3M 2020 for general masking. If your dead set on frog tape use the green frog.


You couldn't pay me to use 3m 2020 or several other tapes from 3m. Ipg is just better imo. Not sure what your complaints were about... weird.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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## lilpaintchic

PNW Painter said:


> I’m not dead set on using frog tape, but I’ve had good luck with it in the past masking trim. Very little bleeding with the yellow. I’ve found it either sticks well or not at all.
> 
> The tape will be on the trim for 3-6 days, so I probably wouldn’t use 2020. I’ll test some ipg and 3m on the next job.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Try the ipg green if ots gonna be up that long....might be a bit too long for the pg5. Not sure...

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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## lilpaintchic

Oh, and Rodda has the green and pg5.heck, you could get pg5 at home depot these days. If your confident that your prep is good that scuffx isnt going anywhere. Heck I'd be surprised if duct tape did any damage to it!

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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## cocomonkeynuts

lilpaintchic said:


> You couldn't pay me to use 3m 2020 or several other tapes from 3m. Ipg is just better imo. Not sure what your complaints were about... weird.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk



PG505 just not adhering, this tape is supposed to be similar properties to PG5. I saw it on several job sites the last summer. Interior and exterior. Different customers, jobs, and several batches of tape. Switched back to 2020, 2020+, 2060, 2090 and zero complaints. And It wasn't a request that I switch to 3M it was more of switch to 3M or we'll get it somewhere else. End of the day I carry what my customers ask for!


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## sayn3ver

How's the stuff touch up? (Middle of wall during say final construction phase). 

I'm thinking I may try it again on a different job but am still hesitant after having it run off walls previously. Still haven't had a chance to spray it on a trim pack.


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## PNW Painter

The last time I used Scuff-X on for walls was about 1yr ago. It was a white color in matte sheen. 

The drywallers had to repair a bad butt seam in the master bath ceiling. After priming the Scuff-X blended in so well you couldn’t see where it had been touched up. Granted the lighting wasn’t great. It also touched up well for minor small things.


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## Woodco

Boy, I guess Im out of the loop as far as these tape numbers and codes go.... Im just like "white tape, blue tape, frog tape." lol. I guess I need to do some research.


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## cocomonkeynuts

Woodco said:


> Boy, I guess Im out of the loop as far as these tape numbers and codes go.... Im just like "white tape, blue tape, frog tape." lol. I guess I need to do some research.



I agree I think most tape brands have over complicated the product selection and model numbering systems. IPG is probably the most confusing brand I have looked at.


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## lilpaintchic

The only ipg we use these days is the green and the pg 5. Been using a lot of 3m 2020plus for things that require a bit more stick em.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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## hammerhead

what is the sheen comparable to with scuffx?


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## lilpaintchic

hammerhead said:


> what is the sheen comparable to with scuffx?


The satin is what I like. A bit more like semi in pc....just a hair under and buttery smooth.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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## cocomonkeynuts

hammerhead said:


> what is the sheen comparable to with scuffx?



scuffx Eggshell is damn close to regal pearl


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## NACE

Just did a foyer and hallway with Scuff X Matt and trim in satin. Both in ready mixed white. Sheens are very close to Regal/Aura finishes. The feel of both is amazing. Hide was very good. White over white. Dried quick. Rolled and brushed well.


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## 804 Paint

hammerhead said:


> what is the sheen comparable to with scuffx?




It’s in line with the other satin sheens BM sells...Aura, Advance. Not quite as shiny as Ben semi (which I love and find to be less glossy than Regal semi and don’t care for).


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## hammerhead

was thinking on trying on some cabinets but customer (the wife) wants semi. did some with advance in satin and she didnt care for the sheen


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## PNW Painter

Scuff-X is available in Semi-gloss, but not in all markets. I used it on a small trim pack last summer. Ask your rep if they can order it.


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## SWPB

Fairly sure that Scuff-X semigloss releases nationally in a few months.


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## The Montana Painter

Not sure why Ipg stopped producing the Block it( aqua color)...loved that tape better than frog tape...Now I use frog tape and some pg5( thicker paper and good tack) occasionally will use 2020 but limited use, it's too thin


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## The Montana Painter

Anyone know how scuff x sticks to previously painted trim/cabinets? Maybe have to prime over oil even if scuffed? PC does stick fairly well....


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## 804 Paint

The Montana Painter said:


> Anyone know how scuff x sticks to previously painted trim/cabinets? Maybe have to prime over oil even if scuffed? PC does stick fairly well....




Test it. I have had it stick to oil-base poly without scuffing (just a wipe down with mineral spirits). It had better adhesion than Stix to the same substrate. 

I’m about to paint an oak bedroom set in a dark grey and I am not planning on priming as long as it passes an adhesion test first. I’m a little worried that a deeper base won’t stick quite as well. Also not sure if I should go with eggshell or satin with the darker color. I don’t want it to be too shiny.


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## Mr Smith

804 Paint said:


> Test it. I have had it stick to oil-base poly without scuffing (just a wipe down with mineral spirits). It had better adhesion than Stix to the same substrate.
> 
> I’m about to paint an oak bedroom set in a dark grey and I am not planning on priming as long as it passes an adhesion test first. I’m a little worried that a deeper base won’t stick quite as well. Also not sure if I should go with eggshell or satin with the darker color. I don’t want it to be too shiny.


I just painted some kitchen and bathroom oak cabinets gray.

I first used a WB primer on the Cabinet boxes called 'Gripper' from Dulux [owned by PPG]. 

This has been my go-to bonding primer to go along with Stix. I was not happy with the adhesion as it chipped off on corners etc after 3-4 days and even 4 weeks after the final coat of Advance. I could have pulled off the Advance in little sheets if I wanted to. I noticed my customer dinged a corner of a cab when I went back to do the bathroom cabs a month later.

Note: I cleaned & prepped the cabinets properly and even used 'Gloss Off' by KrudCutter for Xtra care.

I switched to Sherwin Williams Shellac Primer for all the 40 doors and drawer faces. That bonded perfectly with zero problems. That'll be the last time I use a WB primer for cabinet boxes. 

I had the same issue of chipping after using Stix primer and 'Inslx Cabinet Coat' on some old cabinets. I touched them up a few times for the customer over the years.

With that being said, I would NOT use Scuff X without a primer unless it was over previously painted cabs. (not lacquered).


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## 804 Paint

Just the same I’m going to test it out. Have you ever tested Scuff X without primer? I’m telling you, you can’t scratch it off most surfaces. 


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## lilpaintchic

The Montana Painter said:


> Not sure why Ipg stopped producing the Block it( aqua color)...loved that tape better than frog tape...Now I use frog tape and some pg5( thicker paper and good tack) occasionally will use 2020 but limited use, it's too thin


I,too, love that blue tape. But have found their green tape to be fantastic and easier to get. I have a case of blue 1.5" in my garage that I'll probably be selling in the near future. 100 bucks plus shipping takes it if anyone is interested. I think theres 24 rolls in it? Not sure....gotta look.lol 

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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## stoyania

Mr Smith said:


> I just painted some kitchen and bathroom oak cabinets gray.
> 
> I first used a WB primer on the Cabinet boxes called 'Gripper' from Dulux [owned by PPG].
> 
> This has been my go-to bonding primer to go along with Stix. I was not happy with the adhesion as it chipped off on corners etc after 3-4 days and even 4 weeks after the final coat of Advance. I could have pulled off the Advance in little sheets if I wanted to. I noticed my customer dinged a corner of a cab when I went back to do the bathroom cabs a month later.
> 
> Note: I cleaned & prepped the cabinets properly and even used 'Gloss Off' by KrudCutter for Xtra care.
> 
> I switched to Sherwin Williams Shellac Primer for all the 40 doors and drawer faces. That bonded perfectly with zero problems. That'll be the last time I use a WB primer for cabinet boxes.
> 
> I had the same issue of chipping after using Stix primer and 'Inslx Cabinet Coat' on some old cabinets. I touched them up a few times for the customer over the years.
> 
> With that being said, I would NOT use Scuff X without a primer unless it was over previously painted cabs. (not lacquered).


-------

what would be the best primer to use before scuff-x for re-painting wood trim and veneer door from the 70s to semi-gloss ultra-white?


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## monarchski

stoyania said:


> -------
> 
> what would be the best primer to use before scuff-x for re-painting wood trim and veneer door from the 70s to semi-gloss ultra-white?


Just my opinion but if you clean it well first and sand I'd use the InslX Aqua Lock Plus primer.


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## DeanV

The last time I tried aqua lock, I had horrible bleed through of multiple primer coats and finish. I ended up needing to use BIN.


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## Rbriggs82

I wouldn't be using anything other than an oil or Bin primer. It's not worth risking bleed issues with latex then have to redo it with a solvent base anyway. 

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk


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## Woodco

Scuff-x doesnt have superior adhesion.


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## bluegrassdan

So I have been using Scuffx on walls and trim and its ruining brushes and rollers. It scums over in my tray and even if i bag the roller when i am not rolling dries out. What is up with that?

I am covering my tray while brushing and bagging my brush while rolling


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## Woodco

bluegrassdan said:


> So I have been using Scuffx on walls and trim and its ruining brushes and rollers. It scums over in my tray and even if i bag the roller when i am not rolling dries out. What is up with that?
> 
> I am covering my tray while brushing and bagging my brush while rolling


I have not had that problem in the slightest...


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## Joe67

^^^ Nor I.


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## finishesbykevyn

bluegrassdan said:


> So I have been using Scuffx on walls and trim and its ruining brushes and rollers. It scums over in my tray and even if i bag the roller when i am not rolling dries out. What is up with that?
> 
> I am covering my tray while brushing and bagging my brush while rolling


Turn the heat down? Work faster?:devil3: It sprays really nicely I'll give it that.


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## DeanV

I have not had the problem either. That is a new one.


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## PNW Painter

I haven’t had issues with ScuffX drying on brushes or rollers. ScuffX is a fast drying product so I’m working as fast as I can with it and I rarely leave brushes or rollers sitting in ScuffX for very long. 


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## bluegrassdan

I am in Canada. Maybe the voc's are lower?


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