# Exterior Door



## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

Home owners want the interior and exterior of their front door to look the same. What, if any, are the drawbacks of using an exterior product on the interior of the door. Most likely I will be using Proluxe or a marine varnish (will be stained first if this route is chosen).

Also, wondering if anyone can recommend a good (if they still exist) stripper for marine varnish.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Pete Martin the Painter said:


> Home owners want the interior and exterior of their front door to look the same. What, if any, are the drawbacks of using an exterior product on the interior of the door. Most likely I will be using Proluxe or a marine varnish (will be stained first if this route is chosen).
> 
> Also, wondering if anyone can recommend a good (if they still exist) stripper for marine varnish.


I did some hickory t&g with door and window about a two months ago, thin it with 10% corotech brushing reducer and its like liquid glass. Doesn't dry as hard as interior urethanes but that's about all you'll notice. Door and windows also dries more clear than spar and other marine varnishes being mainly phenolic resin.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

If it were me, I'd go waterborne. It looks like theres a porch over it. If there isnt sun beating on it, you dont need to get as hardcore.

To me, waterborne spars look a lot closer to a normal poly. They dont have that softness. And it wont outgas the inside of their house for days.

I love this stuff here: Super easy to work with, looks great, short recoat window.... Interior / Exterior Poly WB Gloss (Qt)

They put it on floors and boats....


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

Technogod said:


> What ever you spray as a color on the backround.spray a coat of isolator followed by 2 x 6 mil on both sides 2k poly and walk away.


The problem with that is he'd fill the house up with isocyanates for the HO's to breathe.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Its been a while since I used strippers, but MEK (methylene ethyl ketone) strippers are effective and not extremely toxic (if I'm remembering correctly), where Methylene ethyl Chloride is the stripper you want to avoid (carcinogenic)

What direction does that door face? Looks like it has some exposure to the elements from the visible weathering near the bottom. Is it from sun exposure?

I like Spar for exterior wood doors and Polyurethane on the inside. I like them because I'm familiar with them and they are predictable and durable, and maintenance is pretty easy (scuff and re-coat). I also like the amber notes of oil-based varnish as they age, and how they look on real wood (they accentuate the grain and add depth).


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Technogod said:


> ? what you mean? the isolator?


Isocyanate is the catalyst used in most 2K polyurethanes


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

I didnt say anything about brushing. I dont know where you got that from.... But honestly, I probably would, and it would still look great. 

The only thing Im saying is to be aware that this is an occupied house (Im assuming this anyway) so offgassing after the job is done is an issue. I didnt realize you didnt need the catalyst for the poly, Thats really all you had to say. "You dont have to use the catalyst." But I have to ask.... whats the point of using it then?

If you have air scrubbers, good for you. The vast majority of us dont have industrial cabinet shop grade equipment at our disposal to do a Rolls Royce job. Maybe the client doesnt want to pay the prices you would charge. I know I would rather hire someone like Pete to do a good job at a fair price, than a company that would do a perfect job at 4 times the price, and have to wait five months for it. Im not doubting your work, nor telling you how to do things, so theres really no need for the tirade.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Technogod said:


> @Woodco i never brush the exterior door even interior doors or the cabinet. That needs a special talent and a big heart to take in when you see those brush marks.I am part OCD.
> I hear some say use Advance  . anyways that is another debate to fight.
> "Kill Room " that is what i do first at the job site.Second Ram board or red rosin and finally the air scrubbers.
> A day before i let the HO know that i will be spraying and i do my thing alone.
> ...


Just so you know, this is a forum for Painters and Painting Contractors. It's not a Cabinet Re-finishing forum. I know everything you do has to be sprayed with 2k poly and conversion varnish, but 95% of the people on here know how to use a paint brush and there are very good reasons for using them. Just saying. A paint brush is NOT a diy product. I also would not expect a whole household to vacate the premises just so I can paint the front door. That's ridiculous.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Technogod said:


> @finishesbykevyn woodwork suppose to be sprayed. Period. it does not matter is a door or cabinet or something else.
> If you cannot spray a good product that protects the wood just sub construct to somebody who can do the job.
> Just because you love brushing and do not like spray or solvent or similar this does not give you the right to push my buttons.
> where did i say brushing is diy? i said use some big box store diy type product like varathane or deft or what ever.
> ...


 Says who?? Now your just being silly. There are multiple ways of applying products depending on the situation and material. I know most of your work is done "in the shop" but in a repaint scenario, spraying is not always an option. So stop derailing this thread with a 1 trick pony response.


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

Technogod said:


> @finishesbykevyn woodwork suppose to be sprayed. Period. it does not matter is a door or cabinet or something else.


The vast majority of designers & architects I’ve worked with preferred the hand finished look vs sprayed, not wanting a manufactured look which often clashed with their designs & architecture.

I’ve even had a couple clients ask me to price out removing Italian 2K finishes on new window & door packs followed by hand finishing, due to not liking what was described as a plasti-dipped look.

There’s a huge demand for hand finishing of millwork nowadays vs sprayed. I’ve even had a top millwork firm employing 97, hire me to come in & train their finishing department in the art of hand finishing due to the demand, their finishers having prior experience in spray-only finishes which limited them to specific markets. And not to be taken the wrong way, in my opinion, laying down a nice finish with a spray gun requires a very limited skill-set….


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Technogod said:


> @finishesbykevyn woodwork suppose to be sprayed. Period. it does not matter is a door or cabinet or something else.
> If you cannot spray a good product that protects the wood just sub construct to somebody who can do the job.
> Just because you love brushing and do not like spray or solvent or similar this does not give you the right to push my buttons.
> where did i say brushing is diy? i said use some big box store diy type product like varathane or deft or what ever.
> ...


Sprayed finishes have their place of course. I would really recommend you attend a class on fine paints of Europe to get a sense of what can be achieved with a brush.
Here are examples of some brush work from a customer of mine:


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

Holland said:


> Its been a while since I used strippers, but MEK (methylene ethyl ketone) strippers are effective and not extremely toxic (if I'm remembering correctly), where Methylene ethyl Chloride is the stripper you want to avoid (carcinogenic)
> 
> What direction does that door face? Looks like it has some exposure to the elements from the visible weathering near the bottom. Is it from sun exposure?
> 
> I like Spar for exterior wood doors and Polyurethane on the inside. I like them because I'm familiar with them and they are predictable and durable, and maintenance is pretty easy (scuff and re-coat). I also like the amber notes of oil-based varnish as they age, and how they look on real wood (they accentuate the grain and add depth).


Thanks Holland,
I do not use strippers very often, and have yet to find one that works well. Hoping that I can sand all of the flat areas and use the stripper only in areas that using a sander is not possible. My shop starting carrying Rock Miracle stripper. I have never heard of it, but going to give it a try.

The door faces south, but is covered. So, not sure how much direct sun it gets. The wood behind the wreth is much darker than the rest of the door. I have already told them that it might be impossible to remove the dark area.
I think the home owner told me he put a marine varnish on the door, and he wants something that would be as durable.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

If you have a budget that allows you to take your time on the prep (stripping and proper sanding ), you should be able to get rid of the dark area behind the wreath, or at least tone it down significantly. Will look great when you’re done, a lot better than it currently looks!

btw- Spar is a traditional marine varnish.
———

I don’t have a lot of faith in “miracle” strippers.
Since it’s mostly outside, I would personally use a solvent based stripper, and get it done fast and well.
Let us know what you use and if it works!
———

Some thoughts regarding stripping…
let the stripper do the work. Keep it wet until it starts to wrinkle the film. Don’t fight the varnish trying to remove it. Scrape the soft stuff, repeat the first step until the stubborn areas soften. Rinse only when stripping is done to neutralise the stripper, and clean the surface. Be careful not to damage the wood, as it will be soft at this stage. Take your time.

Wear a respirator, rubber gloves, and glasses.

Plastic tarps under the immediate area, then maybe painters tarps on top of that to absorb moisture.

tape *everything* off. Stripper will damage anything it touches. Check your shoes before walking off the tarp area.
I would strongly recommend removing the door if possible, and stripping it in the garage…maybe get a cove door from the lumberyard, or a sheet of plywood to cover the opening. Maybe just plastic if it’s only for a day.

Have on hand:
-empty cardboard box for stripper residue.
-extra Garbage bags
-scrapers
-sharpened dowels
-Mineral spirits
-nylon brushes and tooth brushes for cleaning stripper residue when done (using oms).
-extra rags
-bucket of water for oily rags

should take about 4-6 hours to strip.
let dry overnight (or until completely dry) and then come back to sand and varnish (just clearing it, no stain?).


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

Technogod said:


> @finishesbykevyn woodwork suppose to be sprayed. Period. it does not matter is a door or cabinet or something else.
> 
> where did i say brushing is diy?



So, if you didnt say it in the above statement, how about here: "That needs a special talent and a big heart to take in when you see those brush marks.I am part OCD."

Thats pretty much twice where you implied brushing is inferior...

Dont get me wrong, I always prefer sprayed, but a GOOD painter will know when setting up to spray a small project isnt economically reasonable. Not to mention, you'd almost have to TRY to leave brush strokes in poly (oil OR waterborne) for it to not be smooth....

BTW, the cherry staircase in my profile picture.... I did with a brush. I sprayed all the rest of the woodwork in the house though, except for the crankouts, which my dumbass boss insisted couldnt be sprayed, even though ive sprayed them before.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

Holland said:


> If you have a budget that allows you to take your time on the prep (stripping and proper sanding ), you should be able to get rid of the dark area behind the wreath, or at least tone it down significantly. Will look great when you’re done, a lot better than it currently looks!
> 
> btw- Spar is a traditional marine varnish.
> ———
> ...


Thanks Holland!

Do not know if taking the door off would be possible. I work alone and exterior doors weigh a ton.
I am figuring three days to strip and prep both sides of the door and side lights.

What are sharpened dowells for?

I most likely will not be doing this work until the spring...if I get the job. I might try to do the interior sooner. There are new floors being installed. The door is only a small part of a large job, which is the last stage of a much larger job due to water damage as a result of a faulty clamp on a plastic pipe.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Pete Martin the Painter said:


> Thanks Holland!
> 
> Do not know if taking the door off would be possible. I work alone and exterior doors weigh a ton.
> I am figuring three days to strip and prep both sides of the door and side lights.
> ...


sharpened dowels can be used for scraping loose varnish from interior corners. very useful for doors.
They are soft and won't damage door, can be re-sharpened.

That brings up an old, familiar topic: should painting be done before or after the floors are installed?
Of course, painting should always be done before new floors are installed, but not everyone on PT feels that way.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Holland said:


> sharpened dowels can be used for scraping loose varnish from interior corners. very useful for doors.
> They are soft and won't damage door, can be re-sharpened.
> 
> That brings up an old, familiar topic: should painting be done before or after the floors are installed?
> Of course, painting should always be done before new floors are installed, but not everyone on PT feels that way.


Final coat and baseboard only, because you know the floor guy gonna bang your walls up! 😖


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Final coat and baseboard only, because you know the floor guy gonna bang your walls up! 😖


And the electricians, and the tile guy, and the cabinet installers, and the plumbers, and the glass guys. Dealing with all of this right now at a place I finished up months ago. Already been back there twice doing touchups and fixing stuff. Guy (builder) I worked for was basically never there and he's so slow to pay that everyone basically just stopped caring and giving a crap about how the place looked when they were done.

The tile guy did the bathroom floor with black grout. It looks like every time he had to stand up he just put both filthy hands all over my white walls. Thanks man.

The only other GC I work for is always on the job site actually working and none of this stuff happens. All of his subs know they need to be careful and not make a mess of things.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Wildbill7145 said:


> And the electricians, and the tile guy, and the cabinet installers, and the plumbers, and the glass guys. Dealing with all of this right now at a place I finished up months ago. Already been back there twice doing touchups and fixing stuff. Guy (builder) I worked for was basically never there and he's so slow to pay that everyone basically just stopped caring and giving a crap about how the place looked when they were done.
> 
> The tile guy did the bathroom floor with black grout. It looks like every time he had to stand up he just put both filthy hands all over my white walls. Thanks man.
> 
> The only other GC I work for is always on the job site actually working and none of this stuff happens. All of his subs know they need to be careful and not make a mess of things.


Oh you know it and I feel your pain. There's absolutely no point. I'll finish the ceilings trims, doors and mechanical rooms. And probably roll behind the toilets and Laundry machines. Oh and any High vaulted peaks. Rest of the walls can wait till everyone is the "F" out of there. A good GC will cover the floor with some Ram Board.


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## Knobbe (Mar 14, 2021)

Wildbill7145 said:


> And the electricians, and the tile guy, and the cabinet installers, and the plumbers, and the glass guys. Dealing with all of this right now at a place I finished up months ago. Already been back there twice doing touchups and fixing stuff. Guy (builder) I worked for was basically never there and he's so slow to pay that everyone basically just stopped caring and giving a crap about how the place looked when they were done.
> 
> The tile guy did the bathroom floor with black grout. It looks like every time he had to stand up he just put both filthy hands all over my white walls. Thanks man.
> 
> The only other GC I work for is always on the job site actually working and none of this stuff happens. All of his subs know they need to be careful and not make a mess of things.


Reminds me of an opposite type of GC, a builder my wife works closely with on his projects (interior designs). Over the years we became friends and complimented him on the appearance of his work sites and the tight scheduling / on-time work completion. His subs were clean, neat and started / finished when they said they would. I asked him his "secret". He said he pays them promptly when all work is completed / inspected. He sticks with his known good subs so they know they have a somewhat consistent stream of work and they give him priority. Eventually we had him build a house for us. We closed on the day he said we would when we signed the contract 8 months prior. Even the HVAC ducts were scrubbed clean. Punch list completed in 3 weeks.


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

On the topic of paint strippers, reagent grade methylene chloride can be purchased and converted into a stripping gel/paste with a little bit of know-how..although it’s best to avoid using it for non-industrial purposes in non-industrial settings..


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Redux said:


> On the topic of paint strippers, reagent grade methylene chloride can be purchased and converted into a stripping gel/paste with a little bit of know-how..although it’s best to avoid using it for non-industrial purposes in non-industrial settings..


Lol, That guy is hilarious. 
"I don't want the stripper to damage any of my tools"

#poison


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Redux said:


> On the topic of paint strippers, reagent grade methylene chloride can be purchased and converted into a stripping gel/paste with a little bit of know-how..although it’s best to avoid using it for non-industrial purposes in non-industrial settings..


80% methylene chloride, 10% lacquer thinner, 10% mineral spirits +2% MHPC (cellulose ether as a thickener).


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Technogod said:


> @finishesbykevyn woodwork suppose to be sprayed. Period. it does not matter is a door or cabinet or something else.
> If you cannot spray a good product that protects the wood just sub construct to somebody who can do the job.
> Just because you love brushing and do not like spray or solvent or similar this does not give you the right to push my buttons.
> where did i say brushing is diy? i said use some big box store diy type product like varathane or deft or what ever.
> ...


I did an entire kitchen of a historically listed house where the owners were emphatic about not wanting anything sprayed - all brushed. So, situations can vary and although spraying cabinets may be the most commonly preferred method, it certainly isn’t the “only” way to do them.


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

RH said:


> I did an entire kitchen of a historically listed house where the owners were emphatic about not wanting anything sprayed - all brushed. So, situations can vary and although spraying cabinets may be the most commonly preferred method, it certainly isn’t the “only” way to do them.


In keeping the restoration period correct on the house pictured, we brushed every surface including the plaster walls & ceilings…the only thing sprayed was the fence..so, yeah, in many instances spraying or even using rollers isn’t the preferred method.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Redux said:


> In keeping the restoration period correct on the house pictured, we brushed every surface including the plaster walls & ceilings…the only thing sprayed was the fence..so, yeah, in many instances spraying or even using rollers isn’t the preferred method.
> 
> View attachment 112859
> 
> ...


My shoulders hurt just thinking about this.😹


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## Packard (May 2, 2018)

RH said:


> I did an entire kitchen of a historically listed house where the owners were emphatic about not wanting anything sprayed - all brushed. So, situations can vary and although spraying cabinets may be the most commonly preferred method, it certainly isn’t the “only” way to do them.


I was thumbing through a British home magazine a few years back at Barnes & Noble. There was a full-page ad for a high-end cabinet company. The ad said, "100% of our cabinets receive a hand-brushed finish." Bragging.

But I re-read the ad several times. It did not say that 100% of the finish was hand-brushed. It said that 100% of the cabinets were hand-brushed.

From that careful wording, I assumed that the primer and first coat were sprayed and the final coat was brushed. The result was excellent coverage, and efficient application by spraying the primer and first coat, and an authentic look from brushing the final coat. 

Of course, I am a perpetual cynic. Maybe they hand-brushed the entire process. But the wording allowed for some spray work.

If I was asked to provide a hand-brushed kitchen, I would only hand-brush the final coat. But I would make that 100% clear on the contract.


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## jennifertemple (Oct 30, 2011)

Technogod said:


> @Woodco i never brush the exterior door even interior doors or the cabinet. That needs a special talent and a big heart to take in when you see those brush marks.
> Up to this point nobody told me i should be brushing the paint instead spraying.I mean Nobody. If they tell me i basically walk away and let them do them self's or there is always somebody can do that but not me.


I have one wealthy client that is absolutely opposed to sprayed finishes. Cabinets, doors, book cases, he demands they all be nicely brushed. When done properly the brush marks are subtle and appeal to the "rustic" look of all the woodwork in his house. In the world of painting, spraying is a relatively new technology and does provide a factory finished look. It's a bit like the difference between hand painted china or hand woven carpets, the imperfections give it an organic charm. (Lets face it, hand painted china and hand woven carpets are far more costly than the factory perfect cheaper items. (Because of the imperfections and not in spite of!)


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## Packard (May 2, 2018)

It is probably for the same reason that people prefer butcherblock countertops and stone countertops over Formica. And genuine leather over Naugahyde or plether. Or hardwood floors over laminate. 

For some reason the brushed finish feels more "real" to those people.

It is probably why some people call poured epoxy finish on bartops "plasticky"--not a praise-worthy finish, though extremely durable and well-suited for a bartop.

Addendum: I wrote "more real" and I think "more authentic" is probably a better word choice.


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## jennifertemple (Oct 30, 2011)

Packard said:


> It is probably for the same reason that people prefer butcherblock countertops and stone countertops over Formica. And genuine leather over Naugahyde or plether. Or hardwood floors over laminate.
> 
> For some reason the brushed finish feels more "real" to those people.
> 
> Addendum: I wrote "more real" and I think "more authentic" is probably a better word choice.


That and in a century house that has been kept in a condition that reflects the style of its age, spray perfect finishes would look out of place.


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