# Fall protection advice



## Mr. Milola (Jun 21, 2012)

Hey folks I'm working on an estimate for a restaurant here in Phoenix, need to repaint three standing seam awnings, approximately 2,500 sf. The pitch is about 4/12 and the site is going to present a challenge for a boom lift to access some of the awning. There is a peripet masonry wall where the awnings meet the building, where I was considering mounting a horizontal lifeline and using retractables off of that. 

I don't have any of this safety equipment yet, but want to include the measures in my bid either way. Does anyone have advice as far as the best approach to safely working this project? 

I'm planning on working on it myself with one helper, sanding off the peeling paint (repaint) and possibly filling some areas of peeling and cracking paint. I think the areas of cracking are still adhered well to the substrate. Then I'll need to prime with DTM primer (suggestions?) and maybe DTM or elastomeric top coats (suggestions?) I plan on spraying the primer and paint.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Is it just the blue metal roof? Or also the surrounding parapet walls?


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## Mr. Milola (Jun 21, 2012)

It's just the blue metal for now..I don't think the owners have the cash to repaint the whole building right now.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Then because of the access issues regarding not being able to get a lift in, I'd use extension poles and brush and roll it that way. Wooster makes scrapers that fit on there Sherlock extension poles, and you have brush clips and pole sanders.

I'd have a guy on the bottom working off a ladder. He should be able to prep and paint almost to the top of the awning using a 4-8' pole. Then another guy on the roof (tied off) finishing it off to the stucco. Of course you wont be able to spray this way, as you won't be able to get close enough to tape it off. 

The other option is to get a rappelling harness. Tie yourself off and "walk" the roof that way. I prefer my first suggestion. I'm to old for rappelling, did it in the army and that was enough for me. :yes:


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

I've actually thought this issue out a bit during my day. I read this thread first thing in the morning, but didn't want to respond until I thought about it a little first.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Your "friends" for this job IMHO.


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## Mr. Milola (Jun 21, 2012)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> The other option is to get a rappelling harness. Tie yourself off and "walk" the roof that way. I prefer my first suggestion. I'm to old for rappelling, did it in the army and that was enough for me. :yes:


Good call on the pole attachments, I guess I was too set on spraying it, realistically it presents more problems than solutions. You can't even see the cracking surface from the ground, so I suppose a finer sprayed finish wouldn't be noticed anyways. 

As far as tying off goes, I don't currently have anything to anchor to up on the roof. I've got the owners' permission to install anchors on the inside of the parapet if necessary. Have you ever used a horizontal lifeline? Basically aircraft cable tensioned through D ring anchors, and the lanyard setup slides along the cable to allow for more horizontal freedom.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Mr. Milola said:


> Have you ever used a horizontal lifeline? Basically aircraft cable tensioned through D ring anchors, and the lanyard setup slides along the cable to allow for more horizontal freedom.


No, but I know what your talking about. Is there anything up on the roof? Air conditioner condensers or exhaust vents you could use?


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Kneel on the roof, lean over the ledge and have "bubba" hold onto your belt? :whistling2:


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Options:

-Scaffolding: Pros-Sturdy platform allowing stable and safe access, particularly for a one man operation. Cons-Maybe 2.5-4K per month. don't know the costs in your area.

-Aerial boom: Pros-Stable, quick and mobile access without obstruction to business activities. Cons-15,000 lbs, need plywood for grass, and ground man to move plywood. could be a couple grand and up per week. May be a little awkward at that pitch. Need wand.

I think Schmidt has the best approach. extension pole and wands.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I believe roof anchors have to be rated at 5,000 lbs. I usually just wrap a rope around what's ever available like most of you brush monkeys.


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## Mr. Milola (Jun 21, 2012)

Hmm, there are AC units up there, but I think the distance and angles would present a swing fall issue in the event of an accident. You know, the pendulum effect causes a lot of the injuries associated with falling. Even though the lanyard does its job, you don't want to go beyond 15 degrees past your anchor point, otherwise you're gonna hit a wall or the steel columns supporting those awnings.

I am slightly concerned about an OSHA visit on this job, as it is on the frontage road of a major freeway here in Phoenix. I'm much more concerned about human safety than a violation, of course, but I can't afford a violation either.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Mr. Milola said:


> Hmm, there are AC units up there, but I think the distance and angles would present a swing fall issue in the event of an accident. You know, the pendulum effect


Is there a way to tie a safety rope to _two anchors_ on the roof, then tie a safety rope to the center. Kind of like the horizontal safety line you were talking about? The other option is setting anchors on the inside of the parapet wall. But I'm not qualified as to how to do that and meet OSHA regs, as I've never had to look into it.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Mr. Milola said:


> Hmm, there are AC units up there, but I think the distance and angles would present a swing fall issue in the event of an accident. You know, the pendulum effect causes a lot of the injuries associated with falling. Even though the lanyard does its job, you don't want to go beyond 15 degrees past your anchor point, otherwise you're gonna hit a wall or the steel columns supporting those awnings.
> 
> I am slightly concerned about an OSHA visit on this job, as it is on the frontage road of a major freeway here in Phoenix. I'm much more concerned about human safety than a violation, of course, but I can't afford a violation either.


You're absolutely right to be concerned, and I think you're approaching it in the most conscientious and professional way. my comment was more bravado then anything else. When I am critically relying on my fall protection, I will find an adequate anchor that meets the requirements.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I believe the approach here would be to find the simplest way possible to paint that metal siding. i realize that sometimes the most mediorcre painting requires the most complicated safety requirements. This is why I think the extension wands and poles may be the simplest approach. However, scaffolding would probably give you the best platform for the best possible paint job. IMO


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

In this photo, I was tied off to my van on the other side of the house. It was a third floor dormer and I didn't want to have to set a roof peak anchor. So I just flipped the line over the peak an tied it to my van in the driveway. Maybe you could do something similar?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

It's a good thing no one tried to steal the van!


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

CApainter said:


> It's a good thing no one tried to steal the van!


I made sure* I *had the keys. Trust me, I thought about that!


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## Mr. Milola (Jun 21, 2012)

CApainter said:


> Options:
> 
> -Scaffolding: Pros-Sturdy platform allowing stable and safe access, particularly for a one man operation. Cons-Maybe 2.5-4K per month. don't know the costs in your area.
> 
> ...


As much as I'd love to use a lift, I just can't get one in there, there's no level ground, it's all grass, and one side I'd have to enter through is on a busy frontage road. 

I'm goin with Schmidt's advice about the poles and rolling. I want to keep the costs down because I wont be able to add 2k + into this bid..it's only 2500 sf. I can install some anchors every 15-20 feet along the inside of the wall. I believe they can meet the 5000 lb requirement in this wall, I'll have to verify that though.

It seems like it shouldnt be that complicated, but there are some tricky factors. There's one outside corner where the awnings meet, where the corner of the building extends far above the parapet. I think by attaching a harness to two lines, one on each side of this obstacle, will allow me to cover that corner safely. I'm gonna factor at least 50% more time on this job, in addition to the extra safety equipment.


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## Mr. Milola (Jun 21, 2012)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> I made sure I had the keys. Trust me, I thought about that!


Haha!! That's like something you would have nightmares about..Junior moves the van for the HO to run some errands...Better make sure there are no spare keys.

On this job, the building is about 100'x100', so it probably wouldnt be practical to wrap over the other side.


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## TERRY365PAINTER (Jul 26, 2009)

I did something similar , new metal roof had to spray the gables . I used C clamp Vic grips for holding a 2 by 4 might not be user friendly for this type of application since your painting the roof .


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## Mr. Milola (Jun 21, 2012)

TERRY365PAINTER said:


> I did something similar , new metal roof had to spray the gables . I used C clamp Vic grips for holding a 2 by 4 might not be user friendly for this type of application since your painting the roof .


I have considered a standing seam clamp setup, never used them before. That would supplement a proper harness and ropegrab/lifeline system, but might help provide footing when trimming around the stucco. I'm concerned about damaging the metal seams. If you notice on the pictures, the seams aren't the narrower, crimped together style, but more like a square profile. I'm concerned about the seam crushing when I clamp them. Anybody have experience using clamps on this style of seam? Maybe there's a solid support under there? I'm gonna do another site visit.


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