# your thoughts on sw paint



## Goode Painters (Jan 1, 2011)

Ok here it goes.........................I have procured a decent commercial job, the only problem is..................................(wait for it )......................... the specs call for top of the line SW. Yup. The job is NC and i'm painting over basic drywall, 1 coat primer, 2 finish. I wanna make a good impression the only thing is i really dont use that much SW. I have read some useful threads on here but i thought i would ask you myself. I was thinking Promar 200??? Also, what should i consider a good contractor price on that?
tx fellas.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Goode Painters said:


> Ok here it goes.........................I have procured a decent commercial job, the only problem is..................................(wait for it )......................... the specs call for top of the line SW. Yup. The job is NC and i'm painting over basic drywall, 1 coat primer, 2 finish. I wanna make a good impression the only thing is i really dont use that much SW. I have read some useful threads on here but i thought i would ask you myself. I was thinking Promar 200??? Also, what should i consider a good contractor price on that?
> tx fellas.


Well if you don't use them very much the price is going to be more. Talk to one on the reps and tell him you are thinking of using their products and give the one of your invoices from some paint you buy at another store and asked them what they can do. Keep in mind that their prices just went up a good bit so it will be a couple more bucks more than it use to be.


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## Michigan11 (Dec 16, 2008)

Goode Painters, you could always use another painters account too. Talk to the biggest painter in the area and tell him you need some help. Buy the guy a few rounds. Or setup your own account and go grab some beers with the rep.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

promar 200 isn't really top of the line


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## Goode Painters (Jan 1, 2011)

thanks fellas but i really dont feel that the price is an issue. I think i'm doing ok, i really just wanted a gauge, its ok we can speak under the "veil of hypothetical s" what is to much to pay for..... say promar 200 and what is reasonable? I realize i dont do volume with them but i have an account and a good rapor with the rep. More importantly however, what should i use if it has to be SW and it has to be satin??


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## Michigan11 (Dec 16, 2008)

Where about in Texas? How is business down there, heard it wasn't too bad, but alot of illegals doing the work...

200 satin runs in the low $20 range for some it may be cheaper. For satin thought depending on what it is you are painting, I would rather use the Super Paint Satin. 200 like TJ said isn't the high end, either is the Super Paint. Duration is the highest but that stuff is around $40 + per gallon.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

Is that what the specs say??? Top of the line SW....I doubt it. 200 is not top of the line but IMHO, it is a good mid grade and 400 is typically used on nc so you are bumping it up a notch.
I'm pretty sure SW contractor pricing is based on volume and tier levels so the more you spend the better your pricing.
I have been asked this many times by other local contractors and I won't go there with them. You need to put on your negotiators hat and get to work.


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## Goode Painters (Jan 1, 2011)

i see...........so promar 200 is mid grade. I have never used it as i am more of a BM man but if i cant get the GC to sign off on BM then i'm stuck with SW and i'm thinking promar 200 but how does it cover? Does 2 coats straight up save me from priming? I saw some concerns about spraying it .........your thoughts, TX in advance


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

SWP top of the line is Duration home. My price is around $35/gal iirc.

Promar 200 is similar to Super Spec, maybe even a little better. I would still prime with a new drywall primer, something like Duron NC.

What colors are you using? Keep in mind that Sherwin Williams only does deep bases in Duration for interior paint.


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## DBPainting (Jan 7, 2011)

Goode Painters said:


> Ok here it goes.........................I have procured a decent commercial job, the only problem is..................................(wait for it )......................... the specs call for top of the line SW. Yup. The job is NC and i'm painting over basic drywall, 1 coat primer, 2 finish. I wanna make a good impression the only thing is i really dont use that much SW. I have read some useful threads on here but i thought i would ask you myself. I was thinking Promar 200??? Also, what should i consider a good contractor price on that?
> tx fellas.



PM200 is on the low end...still a decent product. It tends to "hatband" a little...talk to a SW rep or the store manager...most of the time they will demo a few gals to you without cost to see if you like it...good luck


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## Different Strokes (Dec 8, 2010)

PM 200 is about $24 dollars my cost. I barely use Sherwin Williams though. I have an account with Duron, so it doubles for SW account i guess. Promar 200 is a good mid grade paint. It's all I ever used for commercial office space repaints. I've used it plenty of times on new commercial construction (drywall) without priming. That was before I worked for myself, and it was orders from the boss to skip the priming. First coat of finish was considered the "prime coat", never had a problem, but 90% of the time we were using light color creams and off whites, and it was an eggshell finish. I'm not telling you to skip the prime coat, just letting you know I never had any issues doing it on a small scale, just a room here or there. If i had a big job, i would take the time to prime the walls first. :yes:


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

i like sw, durations for exterior, and cashmere for interior


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## SWGuy (Jun 26, 2009)

What products do you use from BM? What would you switch it to in the Ben Moore line if you could?


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

SWGuy said:


> What products do you use from BM? What would you switch it to in the Ben Moore line if you could?


Its hard to compare manufacturers these days. Not many products line up apples to apples. 

He was asking about 200. The closest BM would probably be Super Spec...although Super Spec is probably a bit better. 400 would probably compare to BM Super Hide, but 400 is probably a bit better IMO. The products don't exactly line up, but they're usually spec'd against each other.


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## Goode Painters (Jan 1, 2011)

while we are at it what do u guys think about Devoe, love it myself


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## CK_68847 (Apr 17, 2010)

Goode Painters said:


> Ok here it goes.........................I have procured a decent commercial job, the only problem is..................................(wait for it )......................... the specs call for top of the line SW. Yup. The job is NC and i'm painting over basic drywall, 1 coat primer, 2 finish. I wanna make a good impression the only thing is i really dont use that much SW. I have read some useful threads on here but i thought i would ask you myself. I was thinking Promar 200??? Also, what should i consider a good contractor price on that?
> tx fellas.


Most commercial jobs will be speced for promar 200. We use a lot of SW and PPG. I know there are a lot of PPG fans in here, but I would use the promar 200 over the speedhide line any day. Promar 200 will be fine for any commercial job. However if you dont buy much from SW they are going to charge a high price for it.


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## CK_68847 (Apr 17, 2010)

DBPainting said:


> PM200 is on the low end...still a decent product. It tends to "hatband" a little...talk to a SW rep or the store manager...most of the time they will demo a few gals to you without cost to see if you like it...good luck


The promar 200 will hatband in its deep base colors from time to time, but I have never had many problems with it especially if it is in the extra white base. If you are going into darker colors, you are much better going with the one component egshel or semi gloss expoxy they offer now. The egshel epoxy can be made for dark colors and covers as good as any paint I have used. I have also never had any problems with it hatbanding, and I have actually got dark browns and reds to fan in and touch up which is minor miracle.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Epoxy for drywall?


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## SWGuy (Jun 26, 2009)

He was asking about 200. The closest BM would probably be Super Spec...although Super Spec is probably a bit better. 400 would probably compare to BM Super Hide, but 400 is probably a bit better IMO. The products don't exactly line up, but they're usually spec'd against each other.[/QUOTE]

I understand he was talking about PM200. I am wondering, what line he likes in BM to be able to give him an idea how PM 200 compares. There are + and - to all paints. It is difficult to give a recommendation without having some personal preferences of the contractor.


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## CK_68847 (Apr 17, 2010)

straight_lines said:


> Epoxy for drywall?
> 
> There are a lot of commercial jobs anymore which call for epoxy paint over drywall especially in wet areas such as kitchens or bathrooms. It is a smart way to to go. It holds up much better than semi gloss or egshel. The one component egshel epoxy doesnt quite have a semi gloss sheen, but it does have a nice sheen. If we are doing a small bathroom (new or repaint) we will sometimes put this on. It holds up a lot better while still giving you an egshel look. Like I also said when you get into the dark colors, it covers better than any paint I have put on, and touches up better than any paint I have tried.
> 
> About a month ago I went back to touch up a house where we used the egshel epoxy for a bedroom and a vestible of a house. I was able to touch in by fanning the walls. You could not see any flash down the window wall where I did touch in. On the other hand we did a master bedroom in a dark gray which was in the 200 deep base. I had to basically trim and roll the whole wall because the 200 deep base colors dont touch in as well. If we are doing small projects like this we are going to just start using the eghsel epoxy on dark colors when you are talking maybe one or two gallons of paint because in the end its worth paying the little extra for an easy touch up.


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## alpinecrick (May 11, 2007)

ProMar 200 is fine. Eggshell? Semi Gloss?

Talk to the SW store manager and tell him you have a largish job and to give you a good price on the materials.




Casey


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## alpinecrick (May 11, 2007)

straight_lines said:


> SWP top of the line is Duration home. My price is around $35/gal iirc.
> 
> Promar 200 is similar to Super Spec, maybe even a little better. I would still prime with a new drywall primer, something like Duron NC.
> 
> What colors are you using? Keep in mind that Sherwin Williams only does deep bases in Duration for interior paint.


 
PM 200 is avaliable in about every color on SW's color deck.........




Casey


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

My thoughts. Hmm where to start. Collectively way over priced for what it is. No innovation. For a company 144 yrs old they should be innovators not followers. They just buy other peoples products rather than putting any real efforts into their own. Total DIY store IMO.


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## dvp (Jun 21, 2010)

im not a sherwin williams user but ive sure heard alot of nightmare stories about promar not touching up on the final.


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## Goode Painters (Jan 1, 2011)

Thats what i keep hearing,"bad touch up stories" and its not great to spray.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

Man I never realized how much I suck! We use 200 everyday,from Grama's kitchen to multi million$ mansions.Works great for us.
What else would you recommend for under $20 a gallon????


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

alpinecrick said:


> PM 200 is avaliable in about every color on SW's color deck.........
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Umm no pick the colors off the Sherwin Williams sign and try to get them promar.

Any ultra deep base for that matter.



aaron61 said:


> Man I never realized how much I suck! We use 200 everyday,from Grama's kitchen to multi million$ mansions.Works great for us.
> What else would you recommend for under $20 a gallon????


 Its a good $20 paint, I actually prefer BM super spec thou. Probably just a preference, but I also don't have to worry about ultra deep base either.


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## Nigel (Dec 30, 2010)

*>>>*

I used BM Super spec and SWPM200 for years, And the Superspec is so much better all around. Perfect touch ups, way better coverage...and way less shedding.

SWPM200 , when bought in 5gallons is always so runny/watery...like it was meant for a sprayer....Whenever I rolled with SWPM200 I had horrible shedding issues no matter what nap I used. Turn around and roll out a wall with Superspec as fast as I could and couldn't get one drop to shed off the nap.

Never really used much in a sprayer besides the A-100 form SW and I liked that paint...It got the job done and lasts forever. Just doesn't cover as great as I would like though.

Who knows maybe our local SW store was cuttin 5's w/ water.....


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

Nothing personal intended,but, 
BM down here is a pain in the a55 to deal with and way over priced. The stores are located in the most out of the way areas,hours are rediculous and they all act like they are doing you a favor by waiting on you.
Up north it's all the rage.
Down here,not so much!
I think there are maybe 2 or 3 actual Ben Moore stores in a 2o mile radius.The rest are,Ace Hardware,Durable Coatings,Sun Kote,Modern Paints.So there is no consistent pricing!


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## CK_68847 (Apr 17, 2010)

alpinecrick said:


> PM 200 is avaliable in about every color on SW's color deck.........
> 
> Promar 200 isnt available in a lot of real dark colors. They usually try to push duration which is way overrated. The color accents can be used in dark colors but its durability is poor. The 1 component egshel expoxy is their only good paint in dark colors and for us it's fairly priced.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

Well 99% of the time dark colors don't come into play.When they do we have other options.


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## CK_68847 (Apr 17, 2010)

aaron61 said:


> Man I never realized how much I suck! We use 200 everyday,from Grama's kitchen to multi million$ mansions.Works great for us.
> What else would you recommend for under $20 a gallon????


I am with you arron. We use a ton of the 200 product. We get it and speedhide at less than 10 bucks a gallon. The speedhide may touch up a little better, but it definately isn't as good to work with in my view. On a lot of commercial jobs and high end residential houses you should be applying a final coat at the end of the job anyways. A good way to do a job is to prime and one coat early. Let the job sit until the floors are in and put the final coat on at the end.


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## CK_68847 (Apr 17, 2010)

Aaron not to change the subject but you were the one who was going to order the 14 inch frames and covers weren't you? Have you received them yet and have they worked well for you?


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

Just got em Had a guy run out a pool deck today and he loved it.
Starting a large occuopied interior Monday Morning that's when they go into action.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

I've worked with a company of 25 guys recently, they do about 20 NC per month. They use 200 on all of them. They say it sucks but they use it every day (a mystery) and they use the methods inherently required to make it work. They say it spatters, it's transparent, adhesion is poor on NC (taping), it touches up poorly and it's a latex that always seems to stick against itself or other items. that's what 200 is. That is all true and can be easily replicated. 

I've been on their jobs and I strongly agree with them and I would add more. I see what these guy need to do to make it work. I see the wasted labor. It's enormous on a crew like that. So why do they use it? It's SW at a certain price and designated by a national builder. It's the absolute worse scenario to be in. That's not a company making money. That's a company keeping 25 guys busy.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> I've worked with a company of 25 guys recently, they do about 20 NC per month. They use 200 on all of them. They say it sucks but they use it every day (a mystery) and they use the methods inherently required to make it work. They say it spatters, it's transparent, adhesion is poor on NC (taping), it touches up poorly and it's a latex that always seems to stick against itself or other items. that's what 200 is. That is all true and can be easily replicated.
> 
> I've been on their jobs and I strongly agree with them and I would add more. I see what these guy need to do to make it work. I see the wasted labor. It's enormous on a crew like that. So why do they use it? It's SW at a certain price and designated by a national builder. It's the absolute worse scenario to be in. That's not a company making money. That's a company keeping 25 guys busy.


Jack

Do you mean that they:

A. Literally
B. Historically
C. Pretty much currently

...do 20 nc per month?

If there are 20 nc going up each month in Cleveland, pt shall dispatch the dogs to Cleveland.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

I'm not here to defend it but we don't seem to have this issues.Sure it spatters more than a $35 a gl paint but not enough to be a big deal. Everything gets 2 coats any way so no problem there either.Tape & a runner & your good to go. We do mainly res/repaint though
We use to use super paint for walls but still needed 2 coats so what's the point?


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> Jack
> 
> Do you mean that they:
> 
> ...


Must be talking about a Pulte division. SW nat acct.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

The best SW FLAT paint for touch up on a white's chart is Master Hide. It's a crap paint that touches up with a breeze. The only way you will notice a difference on a NC flat job is if you upgrade all the way to Duration Matte. Excellent product. 

SW400, SW 200, Super Hide and Super Spec all have their pro's and con's.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> Must be talking about a Pulte division. SW nat acct.


Must be a sw factory there. It seems to be no secret that things haven't improved in Cleveland since lebron has been gone there. 

If one builder/developer is finishing 20 houses per month, the market has made it such that there would be others in the immediate market doing the same, or more. 

Why is our other guy in Cleveland using bobble heads?


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> Must be a sw factory there. It seems to be no secret that things haven't improved in Cleveland since lebron has been gone there.
> 
> If one builder/developer is finishing 20 houses per month, the market has made it such that there would be others in the immediate market doing the same, or more.
> 
> Why is our other guy in Cleveland using bobble heads?


 
No suprise if you knew Pulte. They will blow out a site just to finish it and take a tax write off on it.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

aaron61 said:


> What else would you recommend for under $20 a gallon????


Behr flat enamel.

I use a bunch of SW. Mostly Super Paint, which I get great pricing on. For some reason the won't give me much of a deal on Pro Mar. They keep pushing Quali Kote.


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## CK_68847 (Apr 17, 2010)

jack pauhl said:


> I've worked with a company of 25 guys recently, they do about 20 NC per month. They use 200 on all of them. They say it sucks but they use it every day (a mystery) and they use the methods inherently required to make it work. They say it spatters, it's transparent, adhesion is poor on NC (taping), it touches up poorly and it's a latex that always seems to stick against itself or other items. that's what 200 is. That is all true and can be easily replicated.
> 
> I've been on their jobs and I strongly agree with them and I would add more. I see what these guy need to do to make it work. I see the wasted labor. It's enormous on a crew like that. So why do they use it? It's SW at a certain price and designated by a national builder. It's the absolute worse scenario to be in. That's not a company making money. That's a company keeping 25 guys busy.


They do make dripless roller covers which help with splattering. However, if you are painting over carpet or whatever I would advise to always use a drop cloth. You are always going to have a little splatter with any paint. 200 has always covered in two coats for me unless its some bright yellow for instance. I have used duration, manor hall, behrs premium paint, ralph laruen, and BM regal and I dont see SW 200 being that far inferior. I will say up until 2003 it use to touch up better until they reformulated it and gave their eghsel more sheen.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

CK_68847 said:


> They do make dripless roller covers which help with splattering. However, if you are painting over carpet or whatever I would advise to always use a drop cloth. You are always going to have a little splatter with any paint. 200 has always covered in two coats for me unless its some bright yellow for instance. I have used duration, manor hall, behrs premium paint, ralph laruen, and BM regal and I dont see SW 200 being that far inferior. I will say up until 2003 it use to touch up better until they reformulated it and gave their eghsel more sheen.


We don't use drop cloths.When we're done we bring in our carpet cleaning division. But that is a pretty good idea.I'll have to think about that.


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

Drop cloths take too long to spread out.
..plus I always end up getting paint on them.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

aaron61 said:


> We don't use drop cloths.When we're done we bring in our carpet cleaning division. But that is a pretty good idea.I'll have to think about that.


 You must go thru a lot of goof off. :yes:


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

aaron61 said:


> We don't use drop cloths.When we're done we bring in our carpet cleaning division. But that is a pretty good idea.I'll have to think about that.


Maybe you would get better referrals if instead of having your cleaning division come in, to just replace the carpet too. Think about how happy the HO would be with that perk. I bet they would tell their friends.


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## CK_68847 (Apr 17, 2010)

Steve Richards said:


> Drop cloths take too long to spread out.
> ..plus I always end up getting paint on them.


To be honest with you I really dont like drops either. They are annoying, but they are part of the process. A lot of times I am on a commercial job, so by this time there are big carpet scraps or big pieces of cardboard laying around. I would rather go this route in rooms. In a hallways go buy some massive narrow runners because they will come in handy.


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

Sorry, CK... I was only teasing ya.

I've got (and use) plenty of drops.

What amazes me is how heavy they become after 10 or 20 years of use. Don't really notice it though, until I buy a new one.


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## Nigel (Dec 30, 2010)

CK_68847 said:


> To be honest with you I really dont like drops either. They are annoying, but they are part of the process. A lot of times I am on a commercial job, so by this time there are big carpet scraps or big pieces of cardboard laying around. I would rather go this route in rooms. In a hallways go buy some massive narrow runners because they will come in handy.



Na, I like to unravel a 12' x 12' drop in 3' wide hallway.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

Ck,I'm funnin with you too.Your kinda overstating the obvious. Please remember that most on here are professional painters who have been doing this along time.
So we may find that telling us to use drop cloths is kinda DIY.


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## CK_68847 (Apr 17, 2010)

aaron61 said:


> Ck,I'm funnin with you too.Your kinda overstating the obvious. Please remember that most on here are professional painters who have been doing this along time.
> So we may find that telling us to use drop cloths is kinda DIY.


Gottcha. I probably need to read more posts of the people who know what they are talking about. I have seen some posts on here that have made me wonder about some. Arron I should have known you were joking as most of your posts are helpful. I also skim too many responses which I shouldn't be doing.


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## generalpaint (Dec 15, 2010)

This is what is fun and also aggravating at times selling paint and having so many opinions from different customers. We probably sell pm 200 over 99% of the time to commercial contractors and have very few issues. I think when you use something that you have confidence in you usually do a better job. This is probably why we make so many versions of interior flat wall paint. We try and make everyone happy. There are so many external factors that go into how paint performs it is nearly impossible to have a product that works under every situation. I would suggest contacting your store and seek out the dedicated commercial rep in your area. We have mostly gone to specific market style reps so he or she should know what your market price and what commercial products work with other contractors in your area.


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## ezpaintks (Mar 8, 2010)

I use a lot of superpaint both interior and exterior. However, I would go with cashmere....just can't go wrong if you have to use a SW product for the job....just not for ceilings of course


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## Felan Painting (Jun 24, 2010)

Goode Painters said:


> Ok here it goes.........................I have procured a decent commercial job, the only problem is..................................(wait for it )......................... the specs call for top of the line SW. Yup. The job is NC and i'm painting over basic drywall, 1 coat primer, 2 finish. I wanna make a good impression the only thing is i really dont use that much SW. I have read some useful threads on here but i thought i would ask you myself. I was thinking Promar 200??? Also, what should i consider a good contractor price on that?
> tx fellas.


SW Pro200 is a waste of your hard earned money.. it sells for about $23 per gal. It used to be this product was the contractor choice..but something has went sour in the formula.. For about $14 bucks you can get a better hide paint great coverage using SW Sherscrub Enamel. Or if you need more protection then use Super Paint at about $26 per gal Our paint projects rage from commercial federal jobs to high end residential to student and residential multi-housing units . Sherscrub is always used in any of these projects . Good Luck !


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

sherscrub is an awesome flat for any project.
i get it for $12 gal.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

WisePainter said:


> sherscrub is an awesome flat for any project.
> i get it for $12 gal.


Are you being serious?


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## bigjeffie61520 (Oct 3, 2009)

that's what i want to know...


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> Are you being serious?


Wait, was that the skies opening and the angels trumpeting or was that our beloved Wisey poo being serious?


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> Must be a sw factory there. It seems to be no secret that things haven't improved in Cleveland since lebron has been gone there.
> 
> If one builder/developer is finishing 20 houses per month, the market has made it such that there would be others in the immediate market doing the same, or more.
> 
> Why is our other guy in Cleveland using bobble heads?


The nationals made up for 75% of new build permits pulled here last year. There are three nationals doing well around here. Let's see... $320k for custom or $180 for pick and play hmmm. Ill take elevation a) for $180 thank you. 

Anyway... re sw paints. We all have different expectations from paints we use for whatever reasons. Mine are high and I base them on singled out products from their competition that I feel perform amazing well over a comparable sw product. I spent the whole day with SuperPaint semi, brush and spray on another contractors job. Did it work?? Yep. Are there better options?? Yep. You know when you look at a map of your area and you see names of all the cities around you? Sw isnt on my map but I'm spreading the stuff all the time. I'd review more sw paints but to be honest - its exhausting.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

RCP said:


> Wait, was that the skies opening and the angels trumpeting or was that our beloved Wisey poo being serious?


yeah I prefer not to revisit the level 5 thread.


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## One Coat Coverage (Oct 4, 2009)

Jack, I'm also from Cleveland, there is alot of NC here, people think that this city is a total wasteland. Anyway, I use 200 for almost every job I do, I've been doing it for years and have NEVER had any of the problems that have been mentioned here. I don't like superspec, it stinks, literaly. Sorry, but I disagree with you on Behr paints. They are not horrible, but definatly not worth the trip to HD.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

One Coat Coverage said:


> Jack, I'm also from Cleveland, there is alot of NC here, people think that this city is a total wasteland. Anyway, I use 200 for almost every job I do, I've been doing it for years and have NEVER had any of the problems that have been mentioned here. I don't like superspec, it stinks, literaly. Sorry, but I disagree with you on Behr paints. They are not horrible, but definatly not worth the trip to HD.


Have me out to one of your jobs. Its easily replicated. I use one BEHR product, that being Ultra. I cant speak for anything else they make.


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## Goode Painters (Jan 1, 2011)

CK_68847 said:


> I am with you arron. We use a ton of the 200 product. We get it and speedhide at less than 10 bucks a gallon. The speedhide may touch up a little better, but it definately isn't as good to work with in my view. On a lot of commercial jobs and high end residential houses you should be applying a final coat at the end of the job anyways. A good way to do a job is to prime and one coat early. Let the job sit until the floors are in and put the final coat on at the end.


 
$10 a gallon!!! a dont believe you................y would you make that up? Really.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Goode Painters said:


> $10 a gallon!!! a dont believe you................y would you make that up? Really.


Sounds about right for the PPG speedhide.


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## Goode Painters (Jan 1, 2011)

he said he gets 200 and speedhide @ 10 a gallon. I dnt know bout speedhide, but i dont believe promar 200 @ 10 a gallon.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Goode Painters said:


> he said he gets 200 and speedhide @ 10 a gallon. I dnt know bout speedhide, but i dont believe promar 200 @ 10 a gallon.


I havent heard prices like that in a while either, but who knows :blink:


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## A+HomeWork (Dec 10, 2010)

NCPaint1 said:


> I havent heard prices like that in a while either, but who knows :blink:


 If it's $10 a gallon, I'll drive there and haul a trailer of it back to OK! I pay over $20 for it in eg-shel.

I mainly buy S/W paint because it's just so much easier to deal with them than the fashion store with a paint department (Lowe's). I do go to Lowe's all the time in my remodeling ventures, so I am not anti-box store.

I use lambswool covers and my 395 sprayer with pm200 and really like it. I don't sling brushes or turn high rpms with a roller so I don't know what the fuss with paint splattering is.

It is funny how you get used to a certain smell of a paint. I painted a bathroom for a customer who bought some Valspar "bathroom" paint (whatever that means) and that stuff reeked! I asked if it was rotten or something and they said they had only bought recently. :icon_cry:


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## ttd (Sep 30, 2010)

Used 400 this week. Ugh! Water.


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## paintpimp (Jun 29, 2007)

CK_68847 said:


> 200 has always covered in two coats for me unless its some bright yellow for instance. I have used duration, manor hall, behrs premium paint, ralph laruen, and BM regal and I dont see SW 200 being that far inferior. I will say up until 2003 it use to touch up better until they reformulated it and gave their eghsel more sheen.


Use 200 low sheen, it is the old 200 e/s formula.:thumbsup:


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Curious to what everyones price is on interior super paint semi white is. I felt violated today when I grabbed a gallon.


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## ltd (Nov 18, 2010)

i hear you man ,am paying around 34 dollars and if you can believe this 27dollars for pro 2oo low sheen.


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## Boden Painting (Dec 27, 2007)

superpaint white semi now costs me more then PPG Manor Hall and is nowhere near as good. SW has priced me back to PPG.


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## A+HomeWork (Dec 10, 2010)

ltd said:


> i hear you man ,am paying around 34 dollars and if you can believe this 27dollars for pro 2oo low sheen.


$24.69 for pm200 eg-shel


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I will call my rep Monday and see what he can do. Lets just say I couldn't believe how high it was. Almost double what I paid 5 years ago.


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## A+HomeWork (Dec 10, 2010)

generalpaint said:


> This is what is fun and also aggravating at times selling paint and having so many opinions from different customers. We probably sell pm 200 over 99% of the time to commercial contractors and have very few issues. I think when you use something that you have confidence in you usually do a better job. This is probably why we make so many versions of interior flat wall paint. We try and make everyone happy. There are so many external factors that go into how paint performs it is nearly impossible to have a product that works under every situation. I would suggest contacting your store and seek out the dedicated commercial rep in your area. We have mostly gone to specific market style reps so he or she should know what your market price and what commercial products work with other contractors in your area.


Much like vans versus trucks, Ford versus Chevy, etc.:yes:


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## yacob (Dec 16, 2007)

don't use sw master hide is a piece of c.....looks like water and they said you must use the same batch th achieve a decent finish(flat finish)what a j....


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

One Coat... wish you could see this job we're doing now using High Build, 400 primer, 400 finish, 200 primer, 200 finish flat, SherScrub flat - all in all 2 prime coats and 4 finish maybe 5... sw rep coming out tomorrow to have a look see. Its simply unacceptable. I threw Gardz on all of one room yesterday to start from scratch again.


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## Romanski (May 4, 2008)

p200 egshel for 11.04/gal

that's the walmart repaint only price though.


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## blackwell (Mar 13, 2011)

SW is probably the worst paint value in the country. Across the board their paint underperforms. In their defense they do a good job of matching colors in our area. Performance wise you would do as well or better with a walmart kilz or glidden product.There are many paint product co. so do a little research be an informed contractor and take pride in your work. james a. blackwell


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## crazywasp (Dec 22, 2010)

My vote for worst is Ralphie Lauren, I once told a GC n HO, regarding a drk red they made me use, that I'd have gotten more saturation and coverage eating beats the night before. Take that chip to a paint store!

Sent from my iPhone using PaintTalk


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## generalpaint (Dec 15, 2010)

original post wanted to know what to use on a commercial job- I would go to every paint store and have them bid the job based on the material that is specified and the quantity you expect to buy- I used to have a customer that did that and it seemed fair to me


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## Metro M & L (Jul 21, 2009)

straight_lines said:


> Curious to what everyones price is on interior super paint semi white is. I felt violated today when I grabbed a gallon.


Complete garbage. Hide is terrible and the price is worse.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I am still ashamed to post how much I paid for a gallon out of town last week. My rep adjusted a lot of my pricing because I refused to pay it, but apparently this wasn't one of them. 

I would say it is probably only worth about $5-8 more than super spec semi.


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## generalpaint (Dec 15, 2010)

looking for thoughts on how your reps/managers are handling your price issues. How long is it taking to get your problems resolved. Funny thing about superpaint interior is that I have heard some issues with it but honestly I thought guys were more pissed about price more than anything. Then again I have some that love superpaint- I guess its like fishing lures, you normally catch more fish when you throw something you have confidence in.


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## LocalPaintPros (Mar 14, 2011)

To original poster: PM 200 is not generally considered "high-end", I'd say you need to step-up to at least Superpaint for that. But, dig into the intended use a bit more and that will guide you to the "best" product match. Scrub numbers on PM 200 flat are terrible, but the eggshell is actually fairly durable. Stepping up to Super buys you more scrubs, but also the burnish resistance, which may be important in a commercial setting. 

Dur Home is very durable, but I'm not sure it's worth the price premium, especially if frequentre-paints are planned as regular maintenance. Plus, it doesn't come in flat (the matte is almost a satin IMO). IncrediCoat may be an option, but I don't use it that often and don't remember if it comes in satin.

If the walls are not textured, Cashmere is very durable and the self-leveling property makes it look better on flat surfaces. Self-leveling is wasted on textured walls.

I use PM 200 mainly for ceilings, and Super for walls. The additional solids in the Super makes it hide much better, although this wouldn't be an issue for nc.

I don't use a lot of BM because of it's so pricey. Also, I recently did a re-paint job with Regal Satin that required a moderate color change, and we needed two coats, which surprised me. I think I offended the BM store mgr when I commented about this. When I told him (in the context of "help me understand how your products compare to SW") that we needed a second coat for what I thought was only a modest color change, he said "We always recommend two coats". The part he took offense to was when I said "Well, Superpaint could have done it in one".

I know a lot of guys do it, but I wouldn't prime with paint. Primer is about conditioning the dw and creating adhesion, and for that I want the full strength stuff. If budget permits, I'd go with a higher-grade dw conditioning primer so the walls don't look rough or "dry" after painting. But again, that's just me.

Some SW prices (as of the last increase late in 2010):

PM 200 flat: $17.99
Super Flat: $26.80
Super Satin $27.65
Dur Mome Matte: $37.60
Dur Home Satin: $38.45

If you're paying more, PM me and I'll let you in on my "secret".


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