# Spraying BIN



## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

First off, I'm not a big fan of BIN...I prefer CoverStain for most stuff.

Anyhow, awhile back I put my sprayer into some... it "moved" all the old/dried latex paint from inside my pump and hose forward.

Not only did I have a MAJOR clog and mess...but it actually broke the filter inside my gun (never seen that before).

I've thought about it since, but I'm not sure just running some alcohol through the pump first woulda prevented it, unless I wanted to let it sit in there and soak.

I guess next time I'll use a new hose?

Maybe I'll just stick to brush&roll w/it...


----------



## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Ammonia cleans BIN better than alcohol. (think its even on the can)

A dedicated hose is probably a better idea.


----------



## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

bikerboy said:


> Ammonia cleans BIN better than alcohol. (think its even on the can)


I had no idea...
I'm gonna read the can next time!:blink:


----------



## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

You will be amazed how well it works. Problem is, it smells just as bad if not worse.


----------



## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

I imagine the ammonia will keep my sinuses clear though.
Thanks for the advice.


----------



## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Steve,

As you now, BIN is tinted shellac. Shellac is reduced with alcohol. BIN has in it Acetone, n-Butyl Alcohol, Ethanol, and Isopropanol (amongst other stuff). All of these are pretty good at loosening and removing dried latex. I am not surprised by what you describe.

And although I always had the best cleaning results with denatured alcohol for my BIN'ed brushes, I never BIN'ed with spray equip. 

And on occasion when for some reason I did not have any alcohol in my van, I would borrow the HO's vodka ..... no no, sorry, I meant AMMONIA or ammonia based household cleaner. 

I would bet good money that ammonia and alcohol mixed would make the bestest cleaning solution 

And yes, read the can, the MSDS and TDB

BTW, the TDB says:



> *Cleanup* – Clean up spills and drips with denatured alcohol or ammoniated detergent. If spills or drips have dried use denatured alcohol or ammoniated detergent to soften and remove primer. Wash application tools in a solution of 1 part ammonia and 3 parts water immediately after use. If product has dried on application tool soak the tool overnight in a solution of equal parts ammonia and water. Scrub clean with a stiff brush. Follow manufacturer’s instructions when cleaning spray equipment.


----------



## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

EIther a dedicated line or dont spray it. 

Go buy a Proshot.


----------



## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

I think I'm not gonna spray it again...but we'll see.


----------



## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I am not sure the ProShot would hold up well to BIN. Shoot, the siphon tube does not like being stored in paint thinner. They do not want hotter solvents than oil paints contain shot through it.


----------



## Different Strokes (Dec 8, 2010)

Neps is right, a dedicated hose will help. I worked for a contractor years back that had a dedicated rig only for shooting hots. Thinners always stayed in that rig, and the latex rigs were stored with water in the lines (as long as where they're kept doesn't go below freezing, frozen lines = bad things)


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Or you could just flush the pump clean by running a few gals through it before you attempt to spray. Obviously you would need to strain the bin you ran through but I used to spray a lot of it on beach front NC.

Several high end builders I worked for spec'ed it because of the high humidity being right on the Atlantic.


----------



## Metro M & L (Jul 21, 2009)

I shot an apartment with bin, omg, I thought spraying oil was bad. After 15 minutes I could not breath through my respirator. Been meaning to ask how to better deal with the fumes. It really was just like breathing vodka. Not pleasant.


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

something like this.
If you don't keep the eyes protected, the fumes will be absorbed through your eyes. 

http://www.professionalequipment.co...full-face-respirator/?source=pegs&cid=PESEFGL


----------



## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

I don't really like my eyes to absorb anything.


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Yes, a dedicated line, or even a dedicated pump if its possible. Lacquer will do the same thing when run through a pump you mainly use for latex. Most of the problem comes from the siphon/suction tube where paint has dried on/in it and then gets loosened from the solvent. So if it were me, i'd have a dedicated pump for solvent materials, shellac/lacquer. Using a dedicated gun/hose will help, but you could still have problems. Plus a gun and hose setup is around $150'ish...a cheap brand new backup pump complete with gun and hose can be had for around $500'ish. Going that route will save you time cleaning, and money on extra solvents for cleaning, not to mention being "greener" disposing less wash solvent....and also you have a backup pump in an emergency saving down time.


Switching from Latex to Alkyd isnt really a big deal and shouldnt cause you any problems so long as the pump/line/gun is flushed well before switching.


----------



## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Having done a lot of fire resto work, I had a dedicated pump for Bin and oil sealers. This included a dedicated line and gun also. I've always had dedicated lines and guns for sealers, lacquers, and latex. Sure cut down on any clogging contamination problems. The last few years I switched over to a 3M full face resp. Picked it up at a local pawnshop - brand new - for 10 bucks. I love that thing!

Anytime you use a BIN or oil based sealer *ALWAYS *keep a box of pre-filters and filters on hand. They're only good for a short period of time. The old rule was if you could "taste" it through your resp, you needed to change filters. Also it's a good idea to wear a Tyvek type suit to keep your skin from absorbing the stuff. There were a few times I'd be doing a major sealing job and take a rest and break into the shakes. Not good.


----------



## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

Having 1 pump is usually more than I need nowadays...long as I keep it outta the BIN.

I used to have a dedicated pump for solvent-based too.

The last time I shot lacquer was a fire-redo too. An office building worth. I decided that would be the last time.
I didn't have a full-face, but even standing outside the back door was enough to get me flying.

Now I leave that to the younger guys that have some spare brain cells they don't need.


----------



## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Steve, with a single pump set-up you can clean the pump and lines/gun and then just run some ammonia through it and let it sit. Did it that way for years until I could afford more pumps and such.

I rotated the spraying duties with my employees.....myself included. It was always a nasty job and I never felt that just certain employees had to do it. Also figured if I included myself in the rotation it cut down on the bitching factor.


----------



## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

I don't have any employees anymore, Wolf.

I could probably afford another pump now if I wanted...

But the one I have usually just sits nowadays. I don't really like to spray, and so I don't unless the need arises.


----------



## th2765 (Mar 2, 2009)

Steve,
When I run BIN I run some ammonia/water mix thru first. If you don't the BIN will react badly with the water or pump saver in the sprayer. It kind of curdles and gets cruddy and will form a solid clog in lines and filters. Ammonia cleans up BIN in a flash. Apart from the smell BIN works to seal almost anything and sands easily.


----------



## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

th2765 said:


> Steve,
> When I run BIN I run some ammonia/water mix thru first. If you don't the BIN will react badly with the water or pump saver My pump saver is 30W Pennzoil in the sprayer. It kind of curdles and gets cruddy and will form a solid clog in lines and filters. I know! Ammonia cleans up BIN in a flash. Apart from the smell I like the smell of BIN more than the smell of ammoniaBIN works to seal almost anything and sands easily.


I still like Coverstain. It'll seal just about anything too.

I think BIN works better for sealing odors though...I'm sure if that's wrong, someone will correct me.


----------



## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Steve,

The suitability of BIN (and other sealers) have been discussed here often - I'd suggest you do a search, but IMO the vBulletin search feature sucks.

I've always been under the belief that different sealers have their individual niches. BIN is excellent for smoke and the related odors. It is also good for knots. 

Although I can't remember if I found it good for permanent marker, crayon, and/or ink. I think oil Kilz did those. 



BTW, all, would it be a wise idea to have a fire extinguisher at the ready when spraying an alcohol solvent material ???


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

daArch said:


> BTW, all, would it be a wise idea to have a fire extinguisher at the ready when spraying an alcohol solvent material ???


Only if the product is labeled "Combustible" should you start to worry. "Combustible Liquid and Vapors" be extra careful.


----------



## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

bikerboy said:


> Ammonia cleans BIN better than alcohol. (think its even on the can)
> 
> A dedicated hose is probably a better idea.


I have found that denatured alcohol does the same as ammonia. Never noticed difference.


----------



## alpinecrick (May 11, 2007)

Steve Richards said:


> First off, I'm not a big fan of BIN...I prefer CoverStain for most stuff.
> 
> Anyhow, awhile back I put my sprayer into some... it "moved" all the old/dried latex paint from inside my pump and hose forward.
> 
> ...


 
In the alternative, you could always try cleaning your airless better......:whistling2:



Casey


----------



## spektrum (Mar 11, 2010)

Wolfgang said:


> Having done a lot of fire resto work, I had a dedicated pump for Bin and oil sealers. This included a dedicated line and gun also. I've always had dedicated lines and guns for sealers, lacquers, and latex. Sure cut down on any clogging contamination problems. The last few years I switched over to a 3M full face resp. Picked it up at a local pawnshop - brand new - for 10 bucks. I love that thing!
> 
> Anytime you use a BIN or oil based sealer *ALWAYS *keep a box of pre-filters and filters on hand. They're only good for a short period of time. The old rule was if you could "taste" it through your resp, you needed to change filters. Also it's a good idea to wear a Tyvek type suit to keep your skin from absorbing the stuff. There were a few times I'd be doing a major sealing job and take a rest and break into the shakes. Not good.


 Which filters do you use for your full face, the N95? I have a contractor saying to use the P100 pink ones but looking over BINS msds sheets I cannot see it say that is required for PPE. In the msds it says;

RESPIRATORY PROTECTION: A respiratory protection program that meets OSHA 1910.134 and ANSI Z88.2 requirements must be
followed whenever workplace conditions warrant a respirator's use. A NIOSH/MSHA approved air purifying respirator with organic
vapor cartridge or canister may be permissible under certain circumstances where airborne concentrations are expected to exceed
exposure limits.

So just curious which you were using, maybe if it was the regular N95 cartridges and the P100's would be better for this material. I'm curious as I'm doing a fire restoration coming up real soon. Any other filter info would be great!


----------



## oldccm (Jan 23, 2013)

You need an Organic Vapour filter. I believe, don't quote me OV 6100 is what we use. I'd has to double check. The N95 and P100 are just glorified dust masks and are not meant for BIN


----------



## oldccm (Jan 23, 2013)

It's 6001.


----------



## spektrum (Mar 11, 2010)

Those are the ones we use as well, I guess the N95 is the prefilter rating, and they wanted P100, P means oil proof, but BIN is alcohol base so not exactly sure why they are pushing for its use. The P100 are the circular puck shaped prefilter ones though anyhow for a different cartridge. Anyone use those ever for bin and notice any difference in how long they lasted?


----------



## oldccm (Jan 23, 2013)

Sorry didn't read the whole post. You should wear the pre-filters when spraying, it helps the OV filter last a lot longer. The difference between 95 & 100 will be negligible. 

Every job is different, a 'regular' BIN spray job a set of filters will last a day. Rolling BIN in a well ventilated house maybe 2 days. If we have to completely enclose the area and vent the room with fans or neg air machines we require our guys to change filters every 4 hours.


----------



## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

It's not even a $20 bill for 6001 filters...add it in the bid and go new each time. It's the only filter I ever use, works for everything. 

I double down on the on the prefilters. They come with two per side. So I use em all.


----------

