# Benjamin moore



## Jasonthep8nter (Aug 7, 2013)

So I wanted to get some other members feedback on Ben Moore paints. I am currently working on an exterior using all Ben Moore regal select (a first for me) and am wondering how you guys feel about it price point, performance, etc. I am looking to upgrade to a higher grade paint for custom homes an wondering if this would be a good way to go.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Yep. Good way to go. Their low luster is a nice upgrade to flat for siding.


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## RyPremierPainting (Jan 31, 2015)

Ben is pretty much all we use. I love their regal select interior paint or even just their Ben interior.Their Arborcoat line we use a lot of during the exterior season.


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## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

My BM rep said it best "BM makes a good product and then works to make that product even better " . Unlike some manufacturers that buy out companies then integrate them into their company or reverse engineer other products in hopes of coming close to the original ( not mentioning any names so I will just say SW) BM is the way to go if you are wanting consistent quality.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

I'm a Benjamin Moore retailer, so I think trying to convince you of the product's quality would mean much less coming from me than from your peers, but I will say that if you ever have any questions about the products please feel free to contact with me, and if I don't know I can get my rep to help you out. Cheers!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Lambrecht said:


> My BM rep said it best "BM makes a good product and then works to make that product even better " . Unlike some manufacturers that buy out companies then integrate them into their company or reverse engineer other products in hopes of coming close to the original ( not mentioning any names so I will just say SW) BM is the way to go if you are wanting consistent quality.


Damn I said that and got blasted! But it is very true. Sw has more chemists trying to make products cheaper then they have developing new products.


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## Jasonthep8nter (Aug 7, 2013)

Thanks for all the input guys very much appreciated I can say that as of today I have the body sprayed and backrolled 2 coats of the low luster and it is seriously a nice paint I think my new go to (when I can push it) thanks again


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## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

Jasonthep8nter said:


> Thanks for all the input guys very much appreciated I can say that as of today I have the body sprayed and backrolled 2 coats of the low luster and it is seriously a nice paint I think my new go to (when I can push it) thanks again


It has been my experience with BM that the extra cost in materials is more than made up by the cost of labor saved from better coverage , more square foot coverage per gallon, and time saved not having to put on extra coats that usually occur with inferior products.


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## CRS (Apr 13, 2013)

Any market that is not crazy price sensitive (like Utah) would easily justify the higher end products. Ben Moore is pricey, but offers a product line that you can build a reputation on. I myself pull for the strong independent companies, that earn there business, rather than buying it.... i.e. SW's habit of buying up strong regional companies, then wrecking them. SW's motto.... if you can't beat them... buy them.


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## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

Every market is "price" sensitive. You should focus on selling quality workmanship and with that emphasize the importance of quality materials. Think about how you buy things. Do you look at two products and buy the inferior one because it is cheaper or are you more likely to spend a few extra bucks and get a better and higher quality product?


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## jprefect (Mar 4, 2015)

Ben Moore has quality products all the way up and down it's product line. Even the entry level commercial paint is good, and beats out it's competition at the price. Everyone loves Regal (and I like it a lot too) But I just LOVE Aura. Maybe I'm the odd one. Great coverage though. And with that transparent base, you can get some really sweet colors!

Also my local Ben Moore dealer (I could hit it with a rock from my house) has the most knowledgeable manager, who is just really a sweetheart guy -- one of those old timey salesguys who knows their product and takes care of their customers. That alone is invaluable.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

I think regardless of where and what you paint, it's good to have a company that you believe in behind you (whether that means BM or one of the other high end coatings companies who are dedicated to quality). If you have people who only care about price, sure- give them the price proposition. But if you think there's even a shred of a chance that the HO/GC may care about quality and long term savings, you should have a value-added proposition ready. Whether it's a more environmentally friendly product, lower odor, better durability, better cover retention, better warrantee- this stuff isn't a terribly hard sale, and it's a good way for you to increase margins and be more confident in your job.


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## Greg Mrakich (Apr 19, 2010)

Ben Moore is great. They make the best paint they can. Most other companies make the price point their target, not the quality. Ben Moore prices go up, but quality stays constant. Other paint companies will do whatever they need to to keep there 30-40 dollars price points. Those are the companies geared to "civilian" sales, not aimed at painters.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Greg Mrakich said:


> Ben Moore is great. They make the best paint they can. Most other companies make the price point their target, not the quality. Ben Moore prices go up, but quality stays constant. Other paint companies will do whatever they need to to keep there 30-40 dollars price points. Those are the companies geared to "civilian" sales, not aimed at painters.


Well spoken and very true.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

jprefect said:


> Ben Moore has quality products all the way up and down it's product line. Even the entry level commercial paint is good, and beats out it's competition at the price. Everyone loves Regal (and I like it a lot too) But I just LOVE Aura. Maybe I'm the odd one. Great coverage though. And with that transparent base, you can get some really sweet colors!
> 
> Also my local Ben Moore dealer (I could hit it with a rock from my house) has the most knowledgeable manager, who is just really a sweetheart guy -- one of those old timey salesguys who knows their product and takes care of their customers. That alone is invaluable.


I also love my BM dealer. They have four employees, who are the same 4 that have been there for the past 2 plus years. They all know their stuff. I just do not get this at many of the other dealers I go to. The employees where I buy Cali know little more than how to mix paint, and some do not even know how to do that. My SW store feels like a box store.


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## GR8painter (Dec 18, 2014)

I use BM all day with one brush and one easy cleaning at the end of the day, can't do that with a lot of other paints. A professional product for professional painters. There's also a good reason HOs like it. BM does a great job marketing to high end customers, and thats why they all know and prefer that name and colors. Nothing really wrong with SW, they just market more to contractors, builders etc.they just know where their market is, and thats smart.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

GR8painter said:


> I use BM all day with one brush and one easy cleaning at the end of the day, can't do that with a lot of other paints. A professional product for professional painters. There's also a good reason HOs like it. BM does a great job marketing to high end customers, and thats why they all know and prefer that name and colors. Nothing really wrong with SW, they just market more to contractors, builders etc.they just know where their market is, and thats smart.


I just did a job for some friends, and convinced them that BM was worth the extra $10 a gallon over the box store paint that they usually use. They loved the paint, and one of the comments that they had was how much cleaner it looked in comparison to the other paint.


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## GR8painter (Dec 18, 2014)

Funny I never have to do any convincing. All my customers just assume BM. Its like I would be weird to talk them down to something cheaper.


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## Painter-Aaron (Jan 17, 2013)

It might be just me but I don't find I get that much coverage out of regal and aura ..


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Painter-Aaron said:


> It might be just me but I don't find I get that much coverage out of regal and aura ..



As in hide or spread rate?


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## Painter-Aaron (Jan 17, 2013)

Damon T said:


> As in hide or spread rate?


As in spread rate


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

GR8painter said:


> Funny I never have to do any convincing. All my customers just assume BM. Its like I would be weird to talk them down to something cheaper.


I wished that, that was my reality.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

Painter-Aaron said:


> It might be just me but I don't find I get that much coverage out of regal and aura ..



I have also found that the RS sometimes does not cover as much sq ft as expected, but I like the hide, and it looks great on the walls. I really have not used aura enough to give an opinion on coverage.


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

I have never had a problem with hide or coverage with aura.


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## TKbrush (Dec 30, 2014)

I currently painted a room a rich orange color, w regal select. My primed repairs showed through, should have tinted the primer. Went to buy another gallon of regal and the paint store manager gave me aura for the price of the regal. I doubt that would happen at a home depot or lowes. Plus you cannot even compare parking right in front a paint store, getting your paint and going to the job. 
Its whatever the customer wants anyway and most people seem to like ben moore. Ofcourse there are alot of great paints out there, but its about people being familiar with a brand and availibility.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

It's amazing what in indy paint store can do for good customers, because they actually own the paint that they sell. And they don't have to go through a huge bureaucracy to give something away.


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## ttd (Sep 30, 2010)

Ben is pretty much our interior for walls. Regal Select for trim. Just great products. The quality shows. Can't always use depending on job, but if we can its BM.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

If you guys haven't tried Ultra Spec and you're quoting for contractors rather than HO's, I recommend giving it a shot if your fallback is typically something like ProMar or another of the contractor paints. As far as contractor lines go, it's super durable and the pricing really can be quite good depending on the store. I think some of you would be surprised at my shelf price for it...


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## roygones (Apr 19, 2011)

Regal Select interior and exterior products are second to none. Been using BM since the line was just Regal (remember AquaVelvet and WallSatin???) and I have, not one time ever had a problem with the product itself. Worked with tons of guys who could manage to make an excellent product look bad on the wall because they didn't know what they were doing, but a good painter using Ultra Spec, Regal Select or Aura will make for both a happy painter and a happy customer.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

Woodford said:


> If you guys haven't tried Ultra Spec and you're quoting for contractors rather than HO's, I recommend giving it a shot if your fallback is typically something like ProMar or another of the contractor paints. As far as contractor lines go, it's super durable and the pricing really can be quite good depending on the store. I think some of you would be surprised at my shelf price for it...


I have used the primer and really liked it, and I am using the flat for the first time on the ceilings on a refab condo next week.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Pete the Painter said:


> I have used the primer and really liked it, and I am using the flat for the first time on the ceilings on a refab condo next week.


Just know that the US flat isn't a true dead flat like their 508 ceiling pain (as is the case with almost all cans just labeled "flat"). It's gonna have a bit of sheen- probably not a big deal unless it's a real high end place.

There's a new primer from BM out, also, called Sure Seal that you might wanna give a shot for a less expensive primer. It should be running about $20 or your local equivalent and is almost as good as the Fresh Start from what I've heard so far.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

Woodford said:


> Just know that the US flat isn't a true dead flat like their 508 ceiling pain (as is the case with almost all cans just labeled "flat"). It's gonna have a bit of sheen- probably not a big deal unless it's a real high end place.
> 
> There's a new primer from BM out, also, called Sure Seal that you might wanna give a shot for a less expensive primer. It should be running about $20 or your local equivalent and is almost as good as the Fresh Start from what I've heard so far.


Thanks, I already OK the use of the US flat with the developer, he knows that it is not a true ceiling flat paint. I will check out the new primer. I think that $20 is about what I paid for the US the last time that I used it.


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## 804 Paint (Jan 31, 2014)

My only gripe with BM is that they do not make a satin sheen in a line less expensive than Aura. And I'm not really impressed with the way the 2nd coat of Aura goes on…with or without extender. It would be nice if they had it in US or Ben. I just like BM's satin sheen best for trim. Now that I've started using Advance that is now an option, but that won't work for every job, especially smaller jobs where you can apply the second coat the same day.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

804 Paint said:


> My only gripe with BM is that they do not make a satin sheen in a line less expensive than Aura. And I'm not really impressed with the way the 2nd coat of Aura goes on…with or without extender. It would be nice if they had it in US or Ben. I just like BM's satin sheen best for trim. Now that I've started using Advance that is now an option, but that won't work for every job, especially smaller jobs where you can apply the second coat the same day.



What about the Satin Sheen in Advance? I use it a lot and love it.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

804 Paint said:


> My only gripe with BM is that they do not make a satin sheen in a line less expensive than Aura. And I'm not really impressed with the way the 2nd coat of Aura goes on…with or without extender. It would be nice if they had it in US or Ben. I just like BM's satin sheen best for trim. Now that I've started using Advance that is now an option, but that won't work for every job, especially smaller jobs where you can apply the second coat the same day.


There's a lot of BM dealers who want Satin and Matte in less expensive options, too. The main issue is, both Satin (and, by extension, Pearl) and Matte are considered "designer" sheens more than every day use sheens. They're meant for designers and expensive specs.

The other issue is that it's hard for a lot of us smaller stores to justify having 6 sheens of each line of paint. That means an incredible amount of stock on hand at low turns just to make sure we have every possible option covered, and that's already an issue for many of us.

Lastly, there'd be R&D costs for those lines that would drive up the prices of the full line, and BM is already at a pretty critical point as far as costs and retail prices go- hitting the lower end paints with increased cost could be extremely bad for their market share.

Hope that brings a little perspective to it, at least. Any reason you don't use semi-gloss on trim when doing latex like most people? Just like the look better?


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Ultra spec eggshell is very close to satin. Edit: I personally wouldn't use it for trim though.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Aura Satin 28-38 at 60 degrees, US Eggshell 10-12 at 60 and 10-21 at 85 degrees.

The SG is closer at 20-35 at 60 degrees tbh.


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## 804 Paint (Jan 31, 2014)

Woodford said:


> There's a lot of BM dealers who want Satin and Matte in less expensive options, too. The main issue is, both Satin (and, by extension, Pearl) and Matte are considered "designer" sheens more than every day use sheens. They're meant for designers and expensive specs.
> 
> The other issue is that it's hard for a lot of us smaller stores to justify having 6 sheens of each line of paint. That means an incredible amount of stock on hand at low turns just to make sure we have every possible option covered, and that's already an issue for many of us.
> 
> ...


It does, but I still think the jump from eggshell to semi is HUGE.

As far as my preference for satin goes, it really depends on the brand. BM's satin is certain shinier than SW's, and I actually don't think it has a lot less sheen than SW semi. Bottom line is that I think BM's semi-gloss just looks cheesy. I don't know what I dislike about it. The satin looks classy. Plenty of sheen but it reflects in a more even way. And let's face it, the trim work in most homes isn't stellar, and using semi really brings that to the forefront (especially things like spray or roller stipple from previous paint jobs).



Pete the Painter said:


> What about the Satin Sheen in Advance? I use it a lot and love it.


Read the last sentence of my post.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Woodford said:


> Aura Satin 28-38 at 60 degrees, US Eggshell 10-12 at 60 and 10-21 at 85 degrees. The SG is closer at 20-35 at 60 degrees tbh.


 interesting numbers, how do they compare to Satin Impervo and Advance #'s? Does your book tell you how much the sheen increases for deep and ultra base colors? Based on my eyeball test, US egg's #s seem way too low.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

804 Paint said:


> Read the last sentence of my post.


Yeah, I saw that after I had posted and read a few threads later on.--Lesson on why it is important to read everything before responding.:yes:


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> interesting numbers, how do they compare to Satin Impervo and Advance #'s? Does your book tell you how much the sheen increases for deep and ultra base colors? Based on my eyeball test, US egg's #s seem way too low.


The numbers I get are probably for factory white or untinted 1X if I had to guess, but it's not specified. I can't honestly comment on to what extent the tints effect the sheen. Clearly there's some effect- and clearly the color will alter our perception of the sheen anyways- but how much, I don't know.

Unfortunately the sheen on Satin Impervo (the red can you're thinking of is actually spec'd as "low lustre," though that and satin are almost completely interchangeable in most cases) is not listed; the sheen listing is something they started fairly recently and is probably in part thanks to our friends at MPI. I'm really glad they did start categorizing by actual sheen numbers rather than can labels; it's good news for the industry.

The Advance Satin is listed at 25-35 @ 60 degrees.

The sheen thing really is a hard one to tackle. There's so much that effects how much we perceive sheen- angle, ambient lighting conditions, color of the paint, color of surrounding paint/walls, even the "feel" of the paint. 

If you're interested in this kind of info, for BM paint you can get it from their Tech Data Sheets. http://www.benjaminmoore.com/en-us/...nt?lang=en_US&role=H#piSheen=792&advs=0&tab=0 You can just find the product and then click on the MSDS/TDS tab and it's listed in the TDS. Some other paint companies have started doing it, but it's pretty spotty.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Something interesting about the sheen level numbers is BM measures it most of the time at 60 degrees and SW measures it at 85 degrees. Too bad they cant standardize it so you could make a one to one comparison. I wonder how much difference it really makes?


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Jmayspaint said:


> Something interesting about the sheen level numbers is BM measures it most of the time at 60 degrees and SW measures it at 85 degrees. Too bad they cant standardize it so you could make a one to one comparison. I wonder how much difference it really makes?


Interestingly, some of the BM ones are listed at 85, and some are listed at both as well.

Honestly I think the industry is just floundering with the whole idea of sheen right now. I have faith that they'll work through it and within about 10 years there'll be an industry standard for measuring, but at the moment it's just about waiting it out.

Edit: And just judging by the few that I've seen with both listed, a higher angle (85) can increase the variance in sheen on the high end by nearly double.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Jmayspaint said:


> Something interesting about the sheen level numbers is BM measures it most of the time at 60 degrees and SW measures it at 85 degrees. Too bad they cant standardize it so you could make a one to one comparison. I wonder how much difference it really makes?


It can make a pretty big difference. I have no idea why they can't standardize this.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Proalliance coatings said:


> It can make a pretty big difference. I have no idea why they can't standardize this.


Mainly just because people only started caring in the last 3-5 years. Like I said, industry will sort it just like everything else; will just take time.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Woodford said:


> Mainly just because people only started caring in the last 3-5 years. Like I said, industry will sort it just like everything else; will just take time.


 Actually it was quite critical in my previous incarnation as a OEM supplier. We were selling paint that had to match someone else's paint or powder coating from somewhere else across the country. Or had to match a mil spec sheen. I don't know how many times something got screwed up because someone that wrote a spec didn't care or know to distinguish between the two. 

The National Kitchen Cabinet Association address this years ago by standardizing the sheens of clear coats, which are called by entirely different names than such as satin, semigloss, and gloss. They called them 
DRE,MRE,BRE, and gloss. (dull rubbed effect, medium, bright.) and each name corresponded with a particular gloss range at a 60deg angle. It would be a big help if the architectural paint manufacturers would do the same, but they won't because that means that you wouldn't have to go back to the original paint brand for "touch ups" and such.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Proalliance coatings said:


> I don't know how many times something got screwed up because someone that wrote a spec didn't care or know to distinguish between the two.


That just proves my point more. People didn't care. I'm not saying people shouldn't have ever cared, or that it wasn't ever important- it's always been important and they always should have cared, but the majority didn't.


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