# Recommendations for bulletproof paint on wood patio furniture



## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

A great return customer of mine has asked me to paint her benches, chairs & tables. All have been painted before and most are showing signs of cracking & flaking after the last paint-job less than 2 yrs ago by their former painter. I've already cautioned her as to the possibility of being somewhat limited in guaranteeing any sort of claim of longevity without stripping everything first, but I think we're already at the threshold as far as how much her husband is willing to agree to with just a cleaning, sand, de-gloss, spot-prime, & re-paint, (just over $3,000 including transporting everything to/from shop). 

I do have some products in mind, but wanted to see if anyone has had any great success with a particular product used for a similar application; exterior wood furniture which will be exposed to sun, weather, & the occasional splashes from the pool. They're painted white now and will be painted white again. Interested in the very best product as far as durability and longevity. Cost is not a factor. 

Any suggestions?


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

I used to have good luck with Sikkens solid oil deck stain on my own stuff. I never got into doing furniture as part of my business. I don't even know if they still make the stuff.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

I keep hearing that sikkens isnt what it used to be.


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

Yeah I've heard that too. Being a couple years retired I haven't used it lately, so I have no first hand experience. I find it hard to believe a company that made such excellent products over the years would suddenly start making crap, but that could be the case.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

I don't think oil is an option, considering there's been several coats of water-based/borne paint products previously applied. Customer would end up with the same situation she has now with flaking paint. Not looking for a trans, semi-trans, or stain at all for that matter. Looking for a durable painted white finish for exterior wood patio furniture that's been previously painted.


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> I don't think oil is an option, considering there's been several coats of water-based/borne paint products previously applied. Customer would end up with the same situation she has now with flaking paint. Not looking for a trans, semi-trans, or stain at all for that matter. Looking for a durable painted white finish for exterior wood patio furniture that's been previously painted.


The solution in your case being too late is never paint outdoor furniture, only stain it, I've been there and believe me it sucks!


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## PNW Painter (Sep 5, 2013)

As I see it you need a coating that is highly permeable, but also hard enough to take the abuse patio furniture gets. In all honesty, I don’t know that such a coating exists, or if it does I’ve never heard of it.

Storm Systems solid stain might work. 

At some point it’s probably more cost effective to ditch the painted wood and switch to a powder coated metal or stainless steel.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

I'd be tempted to use breakthrough the 250 version. It's exterior rated, very hard and smooth, plus it's crazy flexible and easy to clean. 

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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Gotta use a permeable finish. cali Storm System stain is the way to go. Probably the alkyd solid.


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

Yeah, I would not use anything that wasn't a solid oil stain, even given the fact it has been previously painted with latex. Just get as much of the old coating off as possible.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

While I appreciate the suggestions, I'm pretty sure any sort of stain, acrylic or alkyd, wouldn't be what I'm looking for. Alkyd stains are awesome on rough, raw wood, not so much on smooth wood with several coats of latex/acrylic paint. They cannot penetrate, they'd lack the adhesion capabilities given the fact that they'd need to stick to smooth paint, they can't provide a protective film at this point, they'd show every scuff and essentially would be a flat finish, and they'd harbor & grow mildew & mold easier & quicker given the amount of linseed oil they contain. I don't think even Storm System would recommend their alkyd stain for this application, and even their data sheet for their alkyd stain states, _"Surfaces must be clean and free from all other coatings that may prevent penetration."_
That would certainly include the film-forming latex/acrylic coatings presently on the wood, which I have neither the desire nor the budget to remove.

Breakthrough 250 is on my short list of 3 candidates as of now, but still looking to see if there's a better option. I fully understand that any coating at this point will have a somewhat limited life-span and will require some degree of maintenance every few years. If the patio furniture didn't hold such a strong sentimental value to this lady, I think she would've taken my original advice when I suggested to look into buying new sets made of something other than wood with a much more durable factory finish.

Thanks again, and please feel free to give other suggestions if you got em.


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

I just checked and evidently Sikkens no longer makes Rubbol Dek in oil .That's what I had in mind. It had a bit of sheen, and I have used it over weathered film building coatings with success. Truth is nothing is going to hold up for more than a year or two, especially since they were initially painted instead of stained. I would not feel comfortable taking money for the job. Any finish will have a short life. Good luck.


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## PNW Painter (Sep 5, 2013)

Rubbol in the water based formula might be a good option. It has quite a bit of sheen for a solid stain.




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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Lightningboy65 said:


> I just checked and evidently Sikkens no longer makes Rubbol Dek in oil .That's what I had in mind. It had a bit of sheen, and I have used it over weathered film building coatings with success. Truth is nothing is going to hold up for more than a year or two, especially since they were initially painted instead of stained. I would not feel comfortable taking money for the job. Any finish will have a short life. Good luck.


I have some rubbol dek oil 😉


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

Use California Storm solid stain with endurodeck. It is formulated specifically for decking. It withstands abuse really well.

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## jr.sr. painting (Dec 6, 2013)

I sprayed some outdoor wicker furniture a few summers ago with sw multi purpose primer and top coated with valspar exterior semi gloss. I don't know what line it was. Sold at ace hardware. It was for my mom so I didn't feel bad experimenting with different products. It held up well for two summers but started to flake again the third summer. What type of wood/style is the furniture?


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

jr.sr. painting said:


> I sprayed some outdoor wicker furniture a few summers ago with sw multi purpose primer and top coated with valspar exterior semi gloss. I don't know what line it was. Sold at ace hardware. It was for my mom so I didn't feel bad experimenting with different products. It held up well for two summers but started to flake again the third summer. What type of wood/style is the furniture?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wicker is a process, not a material. So I suppose you could consider wicker the style. It can be made of any material you can weave. The most popular traditional material is rattan and bamboo. Much of the modern stuff is synthetic.

Oh, you mean the furniture he's painting. Nevermind!:biggrin:


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## PaPainter724 (Apr 22, 2016)

Why not go with a water-based epoxy like aquapon? I'd say even precat would probably work and actually stick.


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## mattpaints82 (Mar 7, 2013)

Have you considered FPoE https://www.finepaintsofeurope.com/eco_info.aspx

All of their paints are marine grade, so should hold up well around a pool I would think. The link is for their eco waterborne acrylic alkyd hybrid.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> While I appreciate the suggestions, I'm pretty sure any sort of stain, acrylic or alkyd, wouldn't be what I'm looking for. Alkyd stains are awesome on rough, raw wood, not so much on smooth wood with several coats of latex/acrylic paint. They cannot penetrate, they'd lack the adhesion capabilities given the fact that they'd need to stick to smooth paint, they can't provide a protective film at this point, they'd show every scuff and essentially would be a flat finish, and they'd harbor & grow mildew & mold easier & quicker given the amount of linseed oil they contain. I don't think even Storm System would recommend their alkyd stain for this application, and even their data sheet for their alkyd stain states, _"Surfaces must be clean and free from all other coatings that may prevent penetration."_
> That would certainly include the film-forming latex/acrylic coatings presently on the wood, which I have neither the desire nor the budget to remove.
> 
> Breakthrough 250 is on my short list of 3 candidates as of now, but still looking to see if there's a better option. I fully understand that any coating at this point will have a somewhat limited life-span and will require some degree of maintenance every few years. If the patio furniture didn't hold such a strong sentimental value to this lady, I think she would've taken my original advice when I suggested to look into buying new sets made of something other than wood with a much more durable factory finish.
> ...


Stains: 
Film Forming 
or 
Penetrating

Oil is typically considered a penetrating stain
Waterborne is typically considered a film-forming stain. 

Anything water based WILL FAIL on horizontal surfaces. 
It is inevitable. Because...water sits on these surfaces and compromises the finish. Moisture is eventually able to enter the wood from underneath, in corners, though screws, etc... The water is pulled through the grain, forcing the film-forming stains "off" the wood. Once in the wood, the water needs a way out, and excessive moisture causes the paint to lose adhesion. 

This is in part why oil is better than water based stains, as it is "in" the wood, and not "on" the wood. Oil naturally stands up to moisture better than water-based (water and oil don't mix).


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## millometter (Mar 26, 2018)

*repainting furniture*

if cost is not a concern why wouldn't they buy new furniture.........


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

millometter said:


> if cost is not a concern why wouldn't they buy new furniture.........


I addressed this in post #12...

_" If the patio furniture didn't hold such a strong sentimental value to this lady, I think she would've taken my original advice when I suggested to look into buying new sets made of something other than wood with a much more durable factory finish. "_


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

I remember a job we were on where the wealthy homeowners had their lawn furniture picked up by some outfit that was going to spray some coating on them similar to bed liner. This was wrought iron furniture!


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## EveryDay (Mar 23, 2019)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> A great return customer of mine has asked me to paint her benches, chairs & tables. All have been painted before and most are showing signs of cracking & flaking after the last paint-job less than 2 yrs ago by their former painter. I've already cautioned her as to the possibility of being somewhat limited in guaranteeing any sort of claim of longevity without stripping everything first, but I think we're already at the threshold as far as how much her husband is willing to agree to with just a cleaning, sand, de-gloss, spot-prime, & re-paint, (just over $3,000 including transporting everything to/from shop).
> 
> I do have some products in mind, but wanted to see if anyone has had any great success with a particular product used for a similar application; exterior wood furniture which will be exposed to sun, weather, & the occasional splashes from the pool. They're painted white now and will be painted white again. Interested in the very best product as far as durability and longevity. Cost is not a factor.
> 
> Any suggestions?


*"Recommendations for bulletproof paint on wood patio furniture"*
...? what is automotive, Alex


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

EveryDay said:


> *"Recommendations for bulletproof paint on wood patio furniture"*
> ...? what is automotive, Alex



Automotive and industrial 2K type paints are not recommended for exterior wood. Too hard, no flex, will crack and peel.


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## EveryDay (Mar 23, 2019)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Automotive and industrial 2K type paints are not recommended for exterior wood.* Too hard, no flex, will crack and peel.*


Yes. I was thinking about that,but what about bumpers, they are made from flexible materials, as far as plastic on them goes I guess. 
Would be interesting to experiment tho and paint one piece with it and "watch it" over couple or more years. 
But perhaps wicker is to flimsy. Solid pieces of wood like a bench or a table.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

The patio furniture was finished over a week ago. I'll be transporting everything from shop later today back to customer's house. First I'm gonna grab my pencils and perform some hardness tests & I'll also test for adhesion.


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

Bulletproof as in the bank teller glass that was used as a window screen on one of my projects?


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## EveryDay (Mar 23, 2019)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> The patio furniture was finished over a week ago. I'll be transporting everything from shop later today back to customer's house. First I'm gonna grab my pencils and perform some hardness tests & I'll also test for adhesion.


What product did you use on it? 
Primer, no primer. Any other prep? Some rinsing off the dust?, with just plain water or with some cleaner?
Spill the beans, please. lol

Also post some nudes, (of the furniture of course).


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## DEK Painting inc. (Dec 31, 2016)

I painted a bunch of wooden rocking chairs , and furniture about 15 years ago for a client for outside on their deck , with Porters Glyptex oil enamel high gloss . Believe it or not it held up for over 5 years in the sun and rain .


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## EveryDay (Mar 23, 2019)

Alchemy Redux said:


> Bulletproof as in the bank teller glass that was used as a window screen on one of my projects?


Wow. 
So is robbing banks your side gig? Lol


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> The patio furniture was finished over a week ago. I'll be transporting everything from shop later today back to customer's house. First I'm gonna grab my pencils and perform some hardness tests & I'll also test for adhesion.


Hey don't leave us in the dark! What product did you end up going with? 

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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

EveryDay said:


> Wow.
> So is robbing banks your side gig? Lol


Not a bank robber although I’ve been accused of breaking a few client’s piggy banks before as some of you probably have too... 

I’m not too up on what’s hot and what’s not for exterior paint-grade finishes to offer advice or opinions here but was wondering how FPE Hollandlac would work for such an application? I do have to look at an outdoor seating set in a few minutes and was seeking a bulletproof option as well. I was hoping to see how the OP made out..


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## EveryDay (Mar 23, 2019)

Alchemy Redux said:


> Not a bank robber although I’ve been accused of breaking a few client’s piggy banks before as some of you probably have too...
> 
> I’m not too up on what’s hot and what’s not for exterior paint-grade finishes to offer advice or opinions here *but was wondering how FPE Hollandlac would work for such an application? * I do have to look at an outdoor seating set in a few minutes and was seeking a bulletproof option as well. I was hoping to see how the OP made out..


Here is very interesting article on it.
"Battle for the Front Door: Benjamin Moore vs. Fine Paints of Europe"
https://www.dursopainting.com/singl...-Door-Benjamin-Moore-vs-Fine-Paints-of-Europe


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## EveryDay (Mar 23, 2019)

Alchemy Redux said:


> Not a bank robber although I’ve been accused of breaking a few client’s piggy banks before as some of you probably have too...
> 
> I’m not too up on what’s hot and what’s not for exterior paint-grade finishes to offer advice or opinions here but was wondering how FPE Hollandlac would work for such an application? I do have to look at an outdoor seating set in a few minutes and was seeking a bulletproof option as well. *I was hoping to see how the OP made out..*


For some reason OP is not sharing with us what product he used.
My suspicion is that he decided to go with Behr paint and now is ashamed to admit to it
for the fear of being 'judged'. lol.:smile:


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

*Finished Painting Patio Furniture*

I ended up using SW's Multi Surface Acrylic. I'll post better pics when I return to their home, (since I'll be starting their kitchen in a few weeks), but it was raining hard yesterday, and I was completely burned out after hauling all their furniture from the street up a 250' driveway that's about at a 45-degree slope. I'll also search for the before pics, since after shots are hard to appreciate if you never saw what they looked like before. Most were cracking & peeling primarily in between boards & slats, & I concluded the reason for such early failure of the last paint job was likely due to insufficient prep of these hard-to-reach surfaces.

*THE PROCESS:*
-Removed each piece from trailer after first picking them up, hosed it off, applied cleaning agents via pump sprayer, let dwell for a few min, scrubbed every inch with maroon Scotch-brite pads, rinsed off, moved them to shop to dry for 2 days. Cleaning products used was a little bleach, (approx 1.5% by volume), Krud Kutter, Awesome Orange, & a few squirts of Gain dish soap.

-While drying, I screwed some screws into the underneath side of each leg so that everything would be propped up off the spraying surface during application.

-Once dry, I took each piece out, used my Bahco Scraper with delta & round blades to scrape loose paint between slats & contours, sanded with 150 and/or 220 grit in the slats, sanded everything with sponge, aired em off, tacked, caulked a few cracks, spot-primed raw wood.

-Set up a spray area of about 75' x 50', turned all furniture upside-down, sprayed bottom, by the time I got to the last piece, I was able to flip em over and sprayed the top. 

-Next day, aired em off again, quick scuff-sand with sponge to top-sides of everything to take off any rough dusting of sprayed paint that blew through slats, aired again, turned upside down, sprayed, turned upright, sprayed.










































I didn't reduce the paint at all, but I did heat it up to about 90 degrees. Place a single gallon of paint in a 5, remove plastic opening from the 5 gal lid, stick hair dryer in, turn on.








Used a thermometer to check paint temp. Heating the paint essentially gives the flow we're all looking for without compromising the integrity of the paint by thinning it. For every degree you heat it beyond 70°F, it's about the equivalent to thinning 1%. I also strained all paint. Even with all that though, I was thoroughly unimpressed by the less-than glassy feel the MSA produced. Used my little Graco GX 19 with 310 FFLP tip. MSA wasn't my first choice, but due to a lack of availability of BT 250, MSA was what was used. Still feels nice to the touch, just not silky smooth. Customer was thrilled though, so that's really all that matters.

Before transporting, I removed screws from underneath & installed new rubber feet on everything, hoping to increase longevity of pieces by preventing them from being in direct contact with the ground & water.

View attachment 104039



Total projected time including transport to/from: 34.5hrs
Actual time spent: 36hrs, but that included installing the rubber feet, which isn't anything I considered initially, just decided to provide as an extra at no charge.


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## EveryDay (Mar 23, 2019)

Very nice work and very nice post stelzerpaintinginc with process details.
I personally think SW's Multi Surface Acrylic is a very good choice for this project.
Will be interesting to know how it holds over the years.
Adding rubber to the legs, very smart touch. Good on you for caring. 
Let's hope your prep and paint job on it will last very long time and make you even more famous and the customer very happy with your work. Lol. 
Thanks for all the details and pictures.


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## RebeccaHUF (Feb 13, 2021)

Thank you


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## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

Very odd thread resurrection comments...

But since it's been resurrected I'm wondering whether or not Troy has any manner of update on how the stuff is holding up so far. Perhaps you haven't been back to observe but it's always nice to know what went on after some time testing.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

I got sucked in reading this until I came across my own comment and realized it's an old thread. 😡


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

Joe67 said:


> Very odd thread resurrection comments...
> 
> But since it's been resurrected I'm wondering whether or not Troy has any manner of update on how the stuff is holding up so far. Perhaps you haven't been back to observe but it's always nice to know what went on after some time testing.


I was back there twice in the last 3 months to install their Christmas Lights and take them down after New Years. The patio furniture looks just as good as the day I painted it, although much of it is under a 75' x 8' soffit stretch. They do move many of the pieces right next to the pool in the summer though, especially the lounge chairs, and they're still going strong. I think the single-most important thing I did was to add those little rubber feet on the bottom of every chair and table leg. Keeping the wood off the concrete has prevented moisture from wicking its way up as it did before. Funny to think that it was just a last-minute addition I did for free, lol.

I'll be going back again in a few months to take another batch of full-size doors homes to prime & paint, so I'll try to snap a few more pics. For now, I'm relieved they have held up as well as they have, given how much she paid me to do them. I do wish BM's Command was out and available at the time I did this project. I could think of no other product more fitted to the task.


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## fortcollins (11 mo ago)

I've used California Storm solid stain for these kind of jobs to great success. Haven't really had to touch it up yet after 2 years outside 24/7


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## Forest Dan (12 mo ago)

We switched to the California a few years ago for our deck applications. This was when PPG took over and stopped selling Flood stains in Canada. It seemed like the logistic option because they replicated the flood Emulsa Bond in their solid stain calling it Enduradeck technology. Sadly, after a couple of years and after a few redos, we have not seen a any evidence that it’s the same formula.

We used to use Flood for over 10 years without any problems what so ever. The company sponsored us at a home show in 2007 as I felt very comfortable trusting their brand alongside of our business.

Long story short, it seems that we’re chasing a ghost when looking for a killer hybrid solid stain. These darn acrylic stains dry way too fast for our liking…


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