# BIN vs. Sherwin Williams White Pigmented Shellac Primer



## Lakesidex (Oct 9, 2011)

Need about 25 gallons of shellac based primer to spray for an old house that reeks of cigaret smoke.

Just wondering if the Sherwin Williams White Pigmented Shellac Primer is on par with the BIN, since I may be able to save a few bucks with the Sherwin Williams product.

Thanks!


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Yes I use it all the time.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> Yes I use it all the time.


Thanks. I've recently started using SW here and there and that's good info to file away for the future. :thumbsup:


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Warning, highjack coming

I had a SW worker tell me this morning that their all purpose primer was just as good as Gardz

I did not laugh in his face as he is way bigger than me but come on:blink:


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

chrisn said:


> Warning, highjack coming
> 
> I had a SW worker tell me this morning that their all purpose primer was just as good as Gardz
> 
> I did not laugh in his face as he is way bigger than me but come on:blink:


Ask Sherwin Williams!


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## oldccm (Jan 23, 2013)

Lakesidex said:


> Need about 25 gallons of shellac based primer to spray for an old house that reeks of cigaret smoke.
> 
> Just wondering if the Sherwin Williams White Pigmented Shellac Primer is on par with the BIN, since I may be able to save a few bucks with the Sherwin Williams product.
> 
> Thanks!



BIN or XIM as I think it's called at SW are both great shellac primers. The problem that you may run into is nicotine bleeding through the BIN. It doesn't happen all the time but when it does you will need to use an oil as a primer on top of the BIN We've tried oil primers but found flat oil works the best to lock in any residual bleed throughs. Good luck.


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## capepainter (Mar 9, 2012)

I've used both and like the bin better better hide less smell from bin


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## Lakesidex (Oct 9, 2011)

oldccm said:


> BIN or XIM as I think it's called at SW are both great shellac primers. The problem that you may run into is nicotine bleeding through the BIN. It doesn't happen all the time but when it does you will need to use an oil as a primer on top of the BIN We've tried oil primers but found flat oil works the best to lock in any residual bleed throughs. Good luck.


Washed the walls down once with TSP and they were pretty nasty. Will probably give them another quick wash-down where I see some streaks. Just trying to put the odds in my favor 

I prefer to use Cover Stain on the trim and BIN on the sheetrock but that's just me.

Thanks


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## Boco (May 18, 2013)

Bin dries a bit faster and goes a bit further per foot. I always find myself double priming any trouble areas and waiting 24 hours before topcoating.


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## Danahy (Dec 11, 2008)

I prefer bin over SW shellac. Cheaper when u buy the 5r. Reasons: dry time, sandable, coverage and smell.


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## Ric (Oct 26, 2011)

oldccm said:


> BIN or XIM as I think it's called at SW are both great shellac primers. The problem that you may run into is nicotine bleeding through the BIN. It doesn't happen all the time but when it does you will need to use an oil as a primer on top of the BIN We've tried oil primers but found flat oil works the best to lock in any residual bleed throughs. Good luck.


XIM is not a pigmented shellac, nor is it a SW product…XIM manufactures many very fine primers, XIM 0400, XIM UMA, Peel Bond and many others fabulous product…just not a pigmented shellac (or any shellac for that matter).

I've gotta believe that BIN (Zinsser) actually makes SW's pigmented white shellac. There are no other shellac manufacturers in the U.S. other than Zinsser, and given the newly formed consortium between India, Malaysia and a few other countries, created to keep shellac production low and prices high, I don't think this is the time for any manufacture to take on the capital expense of shellac manufacturing - especially in a rapidly diminishing market that is so overwhelmingly dominated by BIN anyway…Just sayin'


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Its all bug squirt, maybe some different fillers..


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

Personally, I would use coverstain. From my experience it hides better, less smell than BIN, and more open time

Sent from my SGH-T989D using PaintTalk.com mobile app


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

Coverstain has less odor than BIN? Wha? The BIN odor is gone in minutes...it's alcohol, and it evaporates quickly. CS alkyd odor stays around forever. CS gives me the old oil headache by the time I fill a cut bucket.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Ric said:


> XIM is not a pigmented shellac, nor is it a SW product…XIM manufactures many very fine primers, XIM 0400, XIM UMA, Peel Bond and many others fabulous product…just not a pigmented shellac (or any shellac for that matter).
> 
> I've gotta believe that BIN (Zinsser) actually makes SW's pigmented white shellac. There are no other shellac manufacturers in the U.S. other than Zinsser, and given the newly formed consortium between India, Malaysia and a few other countries, created to keep shellac production low and prices high, I don't think this is the time for any manufacture to take on the capital expense of shellac manufacturing - especially in a rapidly diminishing market that is so overwhelmingly dominated by BIN anyway…Just sayin'


Shellac prices have always "bugged" me!:whistling2:


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Boco said:


> Bin dries a bit faster and goes a bit further per foot. I always find myself double priming any trouble areas and waiting 24 hours before topcoating.


Sums up the two products. Bin dries faster and does cover a little better, but since I am spraying bin when I use it the coverage isn't much of a bother.

My SW pricing is around $40 gal.


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## wje (Apr 11, 2009)

For some reason my price on BIN remained the same even though retail almost doubled. I bought 15 gallons for a fire job the other day though and my 5gal price went up. It was about 50 bucks more expensive to buy the fiver rather than 5 singgles. Unfortunately I needed the pails so spent and extra 150

BIN has never have me an issue on anything so I have no reason to try anything else. The price is passed along anyways so that isn't an issue. 

Something's just need a good ol shellacin


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Wes I do a good bit of fire spray outs as well. We purchased over 200 gals last year, and the prices have remained high after they went up two years ago. 

I am seeing that many restoration companies are now trying to save money and use oil instead. On an average spray out that is over $1500 in materials.


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## Ric (Oct 26, 2011)

mudbone said:


> Shellac prices have always "bugged" me!:whistling2:


That was good, mud…i like that 

Even when shellac prices were consistently lower than they are today, there was still about a 3-4 year cycle where the prices spiked due to limited supply of shellac resin. The reason for this was over harvesting a limited supply of available bug poop. After all, lac beetles can only produce so much per year. To that point, there really wasn't much of synthetic alternative to a product like shellac, capable of doing what a shellac does.

Every year the pharmaceutical and food industry buys X amount of shellac resin for their uses…Zinsser buys 1.5 X for shellac production, and is the world's largest purchaser of shellac resin. Emerging economies, such as India & Malaysia, finally began to recognize the value of a limited supply commodity, like this resin, and the value it has to foreign markets. They can make a whole lot more money by selling to the pharmaceutical industry than to paint manufacturers, so the available supply becomes a little more "scarce"... 

Zinsser, and their parent company, have some pretty smart and creative people working for them and have created a pretty slick alternative in synthetic BIN to relieve some of the demand for original BIN.

So, consider all that with the specialty manufacturing and safety equipment needed for shellac production, a decline in market demand, greater competition for available product (food and pharmaceuticals), and now with capable synthetic replacements, I cannot imagine why any company (even a Sherwin Williams) wouldn't just have Zinsser tole manufacture the product for them. 

Makes sense to me, at least.


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## oldccm (Jan 23, 2013)

Ric said:


> XIM is not a pigmented shellac, nor is it a SW product…XIM manufactures many very fine primers, XIM 0400, XIM UMA, Peel Bond and many others fabulous product…just not a pigmented shellac (or any shellac for that matter).
> 
> 
> 
> I've gotta believe that BIN (Zinsser) actually makes SW's pigmented white shellac. There are no other shellac manufacturers in the U.S. other than Zinsser, and given the newly formed consortium between India, Malaysia and a few other countries, created to keep shellac production low and prices high, I don't think this is the time for any manufacture to take on the capital expense of shellac manufacturing - especially in a rapidly diminishing market that is so overwhelmingly dominated by BIN anyway…Just sayin'



My bad. SW rep dropped off some xim and I just assumed that's what you guys were talking about. We use strictly BIN for fire spray outs. BIN is great considering we used to only use SPS.


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## wje (Apr 11, 2009)

straight_lines said:


> Wes I do a good bit of fire spray outs as well. We purchased over 200 gals last year, and the prices have remained high after they went up two years ago. I am seeing that many restoration companies are now trying to save money and use oil instead. On an average spray out that is over $1500 in materials.


Yeah, I hear you on that one.

I couldn't feel comfortable doing a spray out with oil though.

One thing I always go product heavy on is Shellac when doing a spray seal. I don't need the smell of smoke coming back on me. One humid day will make a whole house smell like you never even sprayed it! 

I always take an extra 5 gallons on top of what I think I will use. 

I can still remember one of my first jobs after I finished spraying a house I walked out and forgot to put my respirator back on after returning into the building. That was the strongest smell I have ever walked into in my life. 20 mins later the smell was 100% evaporated.

There is good money in spray sealing, but it was way better before the huge price increase.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I have done that a couple of times, leave a room and then need to go in and grab something real quick. 

One breath and it almost gags you. My profile pic is from a day of my doing a fire spray out. I suit up, not a square inch exposed.

If the contractor specs oil I will use it, not my circus not my monkeys.


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## Lakesidex (Oct 9, 2011)

Ric said:


> That was good, mud…i like that
> 
> Even when shellac prices were consistently lower than they are today, there was still about a 3-4 year cycle where the prices spiked due to limited supply of shellac resin. The reason for this was over harvesting a limited supply of available bug poop. After all, lac beetles can only produce so much per year. To that point, there really wasn't much of synthetic alternative to a product like shellac, capable of doing what a shellac does.
> 
> ...


Makes sense to me too. That's the way the world works these days. Probably cheapen the product for SW just a smidge so everyone makes a little money.

Thanks for the insight.


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## Lakesidex (Oct 9, 2011)

Ended up with the Sherwin Williams White Pigmented Shellac Primer. Their website had it on sale for $31.99 and the store was able to get me 25 gallons at the sale price.
Thanks SW.


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

Been having luck with oil lately on nicotine units. The test for me is to wipe your hand against the wall. If it smears = shellac. No smear = oil. As always, lay it on thick. this quarter we have managed to use 120 gal of oil compared to shellac, saving a considerable amount $$

We no longer wash with TSP. Scrape and spray, much faster.


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