# Bullseye 123 & TSP



## sage (Apr 29, 2007)

During a break today I started reading the back of the 123 primer can.
It stated DO NOT use TSP. Is there some sort of chemical reaction that dictates not using TSP with 123? 
No biggy for me, I use Krud Kutter because it leaves no residue.
Sage


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## paintpimp (Jun 29, 2007)

Really? Never saw that before. I'll go double check the can. No reason I can think of. I'll call them and find out if time allows tomorrow.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

KrudKutter doesn't leave a residue??? Have to disagree with that one.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

You read the back of a can? Who does that?


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## Different Strokes (Dec 8, 2010)

Tsp.. it's easy as 1. 2 . 3.
do re mi, tsp. 123 baby u and me girl.:no:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Tri-sodium Phosphate has a very high pH. 

"The pH of a 1% solution is 12" (Wikipedia)

Even being a waterborne, 1.2.3 can not handle that kind of alkalinity.


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## jsheridan (Mar 12, 2011)

I have the answer, right from Zinsser, I called them. I noticed that also and posted at DIYchatroom. I read it as well and had never seen it before, and it's a new warning. You can use it. They say that because, apparently, the people who don't sand before painting also don't rinse after washing. If you don't rinse it leaves a residue which causes primer failure. I saw it on BIN, but I guess it's on all the labels. As long as you rinse, you're fine.


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## AbsolutePainting (Feb 9, 2011)

I've read technical data sheets on many Zinsser primers and it seams like "boiler plate" verbiage. I will buy in to ph argument, though. Alkalinity is what makes tsp an effective cleaner/ soap. I'm curious to know if it would still pose a problem on exterior applications when you can typically rise thoroughly.


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

Is that true of the TSP subs also?


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## jsheridan (Mar 12, 2011)

I wouldn't trust any detergent that says no rinsing required.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

According further to Wikipedia:



> TSP breaks the gloss of oil based paints and opens the pores of latex based paint providing a surface better suited for the adhesion of the subsequent layer of paint


This does sounds like a plus, but imagine if it were not THOROUGHLY rinsed off

Remember, instructions on the outside of a container are written for the LCD (Lowest Common Denominator). How can the big Z expect Suzie and Harry to know what "RINSE THOROUGHLY" means.

What is the best method to test for any residue? A bare hand wipe? I don't know. 

So they play it safe and state not to use TSP. Too many court cases prolly brought about the wording.


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## dvp (Jun 21, 2010)

coverstain also says not to use tsp. i been using krud kutter anyways also.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

FWIW, I have generally usually always use ammonia - NON sudsy.

It also has moderately high pH but it does not leave residue if not rinsed thoroughly. 

Just don't mix it with Chlorine bleach, unless you're thinking of retiring from this life.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

daArch said:


> According further to Wikipedia:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I am betting neither one reads the can:blink:


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## sage (Apr 29, 2007)

plainpainter said:


> You read the back of a can? Who does that?


Every now and then I pick up a can and read it.
You never know when you might learn something new.........as in this case.


Been trying to find proof of the "no residue" for Krud Kutter, haven't found anything that says it does or doesn't.
So it may be best to assume it does and rinse accordingly.

Sage


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Sage, it all depends on the strength you use with the KrudKutter. A good habit is to rinse anytime you use any sort of cleaner. Why set yourself up for a potential problem?


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