# 6 Square Feet



## parodi

Small Entity Compliance Guide to Renovate Right EPA’s Lead-Based Paint Renovation, Repair, and Painting Program IThe RRP Law is quite clear. From the flow chart in:
*http://www.epa.gov/lead/pubs/sbcomplianceguide.pdf*

*Do the Requirements Apply to the Renovation? 
If you will be getting paid to do work that disturbs painted surfaces in a pre-1978 home, apartment building, or child-occupied facility, answer the questions below to determine if the EPA lead program requires you to distribute the lead pamphlet and/or if you will need to comply with training, certification, and work practice requirements when conducting the work.

Question…….Does the job involve activities that disturb painted surfaces in a home or child-occupied facility built before 1978? 

No? …..EPA lead-based paint renovation, repair, and painting program requirements do not apply* 

Like many contractors I intend to change the way I do business. Thanks to a resurgence in wallcovering in my area, my business has become 98% wallcovering and 2% interior painting of the type that sanding would occur. Remember it is “disturbance painting” not “coating application painting” that I am talking about. I think that for a wallcovering installer it is easily possible to not disturb 6 sf of paint during installation by changing the way I work. Many jobs I do (about 80%) are for painters who don’t want the hassle of installing wallcoverings so the dirty/dusty work is completed before I arrive.

Of the 20% or so remaining about 10% are in houses built after ’78. So I am left with the 10% that could cause trouble with regard to the 6 foot rule and that would deal with removal of existing wallpaper. I am currently waiting for a definitive ruling from the national EPA spokesman concerning the use of a wet plastic pot scrubber on a painted wall. If it turns out that wet scrubbing with a Dobie is a lead hazard I won’t comment about how absurd an idea that is. I will just comply and not do it.

If I am presented with a removal situation or a wall in need of sanding I will suggest that the HO either do it themselves or suggest a pro painter who is RRP certified. Otherwise my jobs in the future will consist of wallcovering primer application then wallcovering application….no sanding, scraping or broadknife blading. If there are wall nits I will pick them off singly with a single edge blade or an Olfa snap off knife. If spackling is needed it will be less than 6sf and I will wet sponge the dry spackle not sand. 

Unless there is another 11th hour change by the EPA I think this is a prudent strategy. 

But for all my painter friends here in NY and NJ who talk about leaving the business I want to brainstorm with you here to see if is indeed possible for a painter to legally avoid the 6sf escape hatch by changing their market and altering job site practives. If I were a painter I would concentrate my marketing in neighborhoods of homes built after 1978. My understanding is that for now offices are not impacted so I would market offices and medical buildings built after 1978. I would look into expanding the specialty of painting vinyl siding. Does anybody foresee a problem with 6sf avoidance?


Can you think of any other ways a painter could alter their business to completely and legally avoid RRP?


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## RCP

Can I see a way that painters and paperhangers could safely do "application only" without using RRP practices? Yes

Can I see that being a good defense 5-10 years down the road when lawyers are looking for someone to blame? No

I personally would not want to be on record as non certified firm working on a pre 78 home.
It sucks, but I think you have to CYA here. You could find a painter who is RRP certified to go in a prep and clear/wipe, then you may be ok. I think this may be a niche market for some, especially if Lead Testing or Dust Sampling from a third party is required later.

To me, the 6 square reads the area you are working on in total. How do you say that you papered 120 square feet but only disturbed less than 6 square?


_Minor repair and maintenance activities are activities, including minor heating, ventilation or air conditioning work, electrical work, and plumbing, that disrupt 6 square feet or less of painted surface per room for interior activities or 20 square feet or less of painted surface for exterior activities where none of the work practices prohibited or restricted by §745.85(a)(3) are used and where the work does not involve window replacement or demolition of painted surface areas. When removing painted components, or portions of painted components, the entire surface area removed is the amount of painted surface disturbed. Jobs, other than emergency renovations, performed in the same room within the same 30 days must be considered the same job for the purpose of determining whether the job is a minor repair and maintenance activity._


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## parodi

RCP said:


> Can I see a way that painters and paperhangers could safely do "application only" without using RRP practices? Yes
> 
> Can I see that being a good defense 5-10 years down the road when lawyers are looking for someone to blame? No
> 
> I personally would not want to be on record as non certified firm working on a pre 78 home.
> It sucks, but I think you have to CYA here. You could find a painter who is RRP certified to go in a prep and clear/wipe, then you may be ok. I think this may be a niche market for some, especially if Lead Testing or Dust Sampling from a third party is required later.
> 
> To me, the 6 square reads the area you are working on in total. How do you say that you papered 120 square feet but only disturbed less than 6 square?


The intent of the law was clearly to prevent the formation of lead dust to protect people. We all understand that sanding creates dust, we know that scraping, blading or grinding will create dust. But it seems you are expanding the meaning of the word "disturb." Is the simple application of new paint to a surface considered "disturbing it?" I fail to see how a coating application raises lead dust. Also I fail to see how covering up a painted surface with a wall covering creates lead dust. If you have an EPA link on the nitty-gritty of this subject I would greatly appreciate it.


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## parodi

parodi said:


> If you have an EPA link on the nitty-gritty of this subject I would greatly appreciate it.


Never mind, I found it. Get out your copy of RRP compliance

http://www.epa.gov/lead/pubs/sbcomplianceguide.pdf

turn to page 18 and see this:

*"..............Is painting considered renovation if no surface preparation activity occurs?

No. If the surface to be painted is not disturbed by sanding, scraping, or other activities that may cause dust, the work is not considered renovation and EPA’s lead program requirements do not apply. However, painting projects that involve surface preparation that disturbs paint, such as sanding and scraping, would be covered."


*


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## RCP

I agree, if you are not disturbing the paint *at all*, it would not be covered under RRP.
But you cannot say, "I am painting/hanging paper on 120 square feet and only disturbing less than 6 square by prepping, so it is ok."
And I don't know where HUD and OHSA are on that.

I am sure there are plenty of scenarios where you can apply wallpaper or even paint without disturbing any paint, but how many pre 78 homes are in good enough condition?

_Paint in poor condition means more than 10 square feet of deteriorated paint on exterior components with large surface areas; or more than 2 square feet of deteriorated paint on interior components with large surface areas (e.g., walls, ceilings, floors, doors); or more than 10 percent of the total surface area of the component is deteriorated on interior or exterior components with small surface areas (window sills, baseboards, soffits, trim)._

And if you want to see the most up to date, official version of RRP, go here.
That brochure is from December 08, although it is still accurate.

Jim, please don't feel like I am trying to argue with you, read my posts and you will see I have been trying to encourage these types of discussions, most here are probably pretty tired of me by now!


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## parodi

RCP said:


> I agree, if you are not disturbing the paint *at all*, it would not be covered under RRP.
> But you cannot say, "I am painting/hanging paper on 120 square feet and only disturbing less than 6 square by prepping, so it is ok."
> And I don't know where HUD and OHSA are on that.
> 
> I am sure there are plenty of scenarios where you can apply wallpaper or even paint without disturbing any paint, but how many pre 78 homes are in good enough condition?
> 
> _Paint in poor condition means more than 10 square feet of deteriorated paint on exterior components with large surface areas; or more than 2 square feet of deteriorated paint on interior components with large surface areas (e.g., walls, ceilings, floors, doors); or more than 10 percent of the total surface area of the component is deteriorated on interior or exterior components with small surface areas (window sills, baseboards, soffits, trim)._
> 
> And if you want to see the most up to date, official version of RRP, go here.
> That brochure is from December 08, although it is still accurate.
> 
> Jim, please don't feel like I am trying to argue with you, read my posts and you will see I have been trying to encourage these types of discussions, most here are probably pretty tired of me by now!


I didn't think we were arguing. I have read some of your posts (although I admit I am late to the larger discussion and have probably missed most of them.) I can see that you are into this and I am glad.

All of this stuff may be well worn here, but just consider that I am interested in getting all this correct as I write (possibly) a part I and II on RRP in my column. Keep in mind that the column goes out to 35,000 and MOST readers are just now at the rudimentary level of understanding all this. Some have never heard of RRP. So I want to begin at the beginning. And I WANT you to disagree with me if you think I'm wrong. Better I'm wrong here than after I am paid for writing a fact deficient column. 

Now to your question "How many pre-1978 houses are in good condition for me to walk in simply apply a wallcovering primer paint for the purpose of wallcovering?" I would say 95%. Remember though my stamping ground is the wealthier suburbs of NYC in northern NJ and Westchester. These very expensive old homes in Ridgewood, Summit, Montclair NJ as well as Scarsdale, Bedford etc are in superb condition. 

When you say,

_But you cannot say, "I am painting/hanging paper on 120 square feet and only disturbing less than 6 square by prepping, so it is ok."

_you have bafffled me. Of course I can say that. I walk in the room, I look at and tap at the paint. I see that everything is flat and sound and say, "This is a job involving wall covering primer applications only." There may be several picture hanger holes which I can legally spackle and sand because you get about 6 spackled picture hanger holes per square foot with a modest feather out. I can sand those areas. They are less than 6 sf.

If I see any paint deterioration of more than 6 sf I then recommend my RRP certified painter friends or ask the customer to sand it themselves (or have their lazy son home from college to do it) after explaining the problem of the $37,500 fine for me if i do it. 

RCP, my intent here is to show that many contractors who are on the periphery of tear downs and renovations can reasonably work within the law without RRP certification provided they understand the law and its requirements. I would say that drapery installers should throw away their hammers, drill only, and they too do not need to be RRP certified either if they change up their normal practices.


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## boman47k

I want to agree with Parodi in that a lot of the older homes are in good conditon. I would also assume that many have been repainted a few times with lead free paint.
But as far as letting the ho do the sanding, if I understand that right, then coming back in and doing the painting, not sure about that. I wouldn't want to do the painting when the ho has let the dust settle in the house. Maybe I misunderstood what parodi meant on that subject.


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## RCP

Two things I wonder.
Does 6 feet mean one 6 foot square or 1 foot here, half a foot there, 2 feet here? To me, the 6 foot rule means doing a minor repair that disturbs one area. Not disturbing a bunch of little areas that add up to 6 and then performing additional work on a much larger. Hmm. I need to think about this too.

_Minor repair and maintenance activities are activities, including minor heating, ventilation or air conditioning work, electrical work, and plumbing, that disrupt 6 square feet or less of painted surface per room for interior activities or 20 square feet or less of painted surface for exterior activities where none of the work practices prohibited or restricted by §745.85(a)(3) are used and where the work does not involve window replacement or demolition of painted surface areas. When removing painted components, or portions of painted components, the entire surface area removed is the amount of painted surface disturbed. Jobs, other than emergency renovations, performed in the same room within the same 30 days must be considered the same job for the purpose of determining whether the job is a minor repair and maintenance activity._

The other thing is, if you are trying to say that contractors don't need the certification, I would disagree. While they may not have to follow RRP on the situations you brought up, they should have the training to be able to know the difference.


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## boman47k

What if you have a built-in shelf system 2'x3'. Ho wants it removed and replaced with dw or a new shelf system. Do you consider that 6 sq ft, or do you just consider the few inches you disturb around the perimeter?
I asked this about windows. It seems windows fall under the rule regardless of size if pre 1978.


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## Slingah

parodi said:


> Never mind, I found it. Get out your copy of RRP compliance
> 
> http://www.epa.gov/lead/pubs/sbcomplianceguide.pdf
> 
> turn to page 18 and see this:
> 
> *"..............Is painting considered renovation if no surface preparation activity occurs?*
> 
> *No. If the surface to be painted is not disturbed by sanding, scraping, or other activities that may cause dust, the work is not considered renovation and EPA’s lead program requirements do not apply. However, painting projects that involve surface preparation that disturbs paint, such as sanding and scraping, would be covered."*


I feel better about this new rule everyday....this rule is for lower income folks who havent kept up...or young couples starting out....not working on sh!tboxes is the key. That and high bonding primers.


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## Dean CRCNA

I think when it comes to wallpaper, there are a lot of gray areas and each job will be different if or if not RRP applies.

I would like to also note, that if the home is directly or indirectly federally assisted, the home does not fall under RRP, but LSHR. In that case, it is not 6 sq ft, but 2 sq ft. If a bank received TARP funds, the mortgage would be considered federally assisted.

Certified Firms need to worry about homeowner lawsuits and also the EPA enforcement. Lawyers will definitely see the rule differently than enforcement. These things need to be considered.

When you talk about 6 sq ft (or 2 sq ft) ... this falls under _Minor Repair and Maintenance Activities_. Is installing brand new wallpaper a repair or maintenance? Does it even matter?

If you use a cleaning solution to wipe down the walls before putting on a primer ... is that disturbing the paint? If the paint is chalking (possible lead dust hazard), should precautions be taken?

The total size of light switch plates, outlet plates, lights and air vents when removed to do wallpaper, should be included in the 6 (or 2) sq ft. Along with any wall repairs you do.

My particular understanding is that it is a "sum" that adds up to the 6 sq ft. A little piece here ... a little piece there ... as long as you don't go over the sq footage.

I also would suggest not using the sb compliance guide to gain what is ok and what is not ok. It is only a guide.


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## parodi

boman47k said:


> I want to agree with Parodi in that a lot of the older homes are in good conditon. I would also assume that many have been repainted a few times with lead free paint.
> But as far as letting the ho do the sanding, if I understand that right, then coming back in and doing the painting, not sure about that. I wouldn't want to do the painting when the ho has let the dust settle in the house. Maybe I misunderstood what parodi meant on that subject.


I'm not saying that strategy would work for a painter. As it concerns a paperhanger I guess everything depends on the degree of roughness and what is causing the roughness...ie cheap roller cover shedding and embedding lots of painted fuzz from the last job, cheapo sand paint from the Depot, or river bed cracking from a moisture situation. If it thought it was a problem area I would pass it on to a pro. This new way of doing business will take some time to get used to, but I am more concerned about being EPA- safe.

If the remedy to a rough wall is just a quick pass with some 120 grit I could even oversee the job and tell the customer they missed a spot. I think once the absurdity and the $37,500 fine is made clear to the customer they will have to adapt to this new world too. BTW, I have let customers prime walls for me when I spec the material. Actually I prefer this on small one room jobs so I don't have to wait for paint to dry.


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## parodi

RCP said:


> Two things I wonder.
> Does 6 feet mean one 6 foot square or 1 foot here, half a foot there, 2 feet here? To me, the 6 foot rule means doing a minor repair that disturbs one area. Not disturbing a bunch of little areas that add up to 6 and then performing additional work on a much larger. Hmm. I need to think about this too.
> 
> _Minor repair and maintenance activities are activities, including minor heating, ventilation or air conditioning work, electrical work, and plumbing, that disrupt 6 square feet or less of painted surface per room for interior activities or 20 square feet or less of painted surface for exterior activities where none of the work practices prohibited or restricted by §745.85(a)(3) are used and where the work does not involve window replacement or demolition of painted surface areas. When removing painted components, or portions of painted components, the entire surface area removed is the amount of painted surface disturbed. Jobs, other than emergency renovations, performed in the same room within the same 30 days must be considered the same job for the purpose of determining whether the job is a minor repair and maintenance activity._
> 
> The other thing is, if you are trying to say that contractors don't need the certification, I would disagree. While they may not have to follow RRP on the situations you brought up, they should have the training to be able to know the difference.


Yes I agree, learn everything you can. But can you think of one bit of information you learned during the one day EPA training seminar that is not available online to anyone for independent study?


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## parodi

Dean CRCNA said:


> I also would suggest not using the sb compliance guide to gain what is ok and what is not ok. It is only a guide.


What should I be using?


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## vermontpainter

parodi said:


> Yes I agree, learn everything you can. But can you think of one bit of information you learned during the one day EPA training seminar that is not available online to anyone for independent study?


Any truth to the rumor that Chris (RCP) has been sent to RRP Certified Trainer School by PT and will be administering online certification (both firm and CR) through PT for $99 per cert?


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## parodi

boman47k said:


> What if you have a built-in shelf system 2'x3'. Ho wants it removed and replaced with dw or a new shelf system. Do you consider that 6 sq ft, or do you just consider the few inches you disturb around the perimeter?
> I asked this about windows. It seems windows fall under the rule regardless of size if pre 1978.


IMO don't waste time worrying about the shelves. Briefly explain your $37,500 problem and ask that the HO have the thing removed before work commences. Everybody understands money. If someone tells me they just spent $2000 for new drapes I spec that they have them removed before I arrive. If they have a deluxe Plasma TV I spec that I will not be responsible for removing it on the estimate.


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## RCP

parodi said:


> Yes I agree, learn everything you can. But can you think of one bit of information you learned during the one day EPA training seminar that is not available online to anyone for independent study?


Well, I have not taken the class, yet, but I have seen tons of misinformation disseminated by those that have. Just read here, or several other forums for examples.
I talked to over 200 contractors in my area who had no idea about the rule. I think it is a combination of taking the class and independent study that will make us all better business owners.
So I think spending 4-600 dollars to register and comply, just like a contractors license, is part of being of a business. But I come from a State that enforces licensing and continuing education and see the benefits.




parodi said:


> What should I be using?


This is the code that is updated.



vermontpainter said:


> Any truth to the rumor that Chris (RCP) has been sent to RRP Certified Trainer School by PT and will be administering online certification (both firm and CR) through PT for $99 per cert?


That's $199 bucko!


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## vermontpainter

Has the pdca had anything whatsoever to say about RRP? 

The reason I ask is that its more than likely that this whole thing has been created and administered by folks not involved in the paint industry. I would have thought that the pdca might have been on top of this evolution before it took root in its current incarnation. If they have, I've not heard about it. Has anyone?


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## NEPS.US

vermontpainter said:


> Has the pdca had anything whatsoever to say about RRP?
> 
> The reason I ask is that its more than likely that this whole thing has been created and administered by folks not involved in the paint industry. I would have thought that the pdca might have been on top of this evolution before it took root in its current incarnation. If they have, I've not heard about it. Has anyone?


The NEPDCA has sponsored classes at a BM factory here in Boston.


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## vermontpainter

NEPS.US said:


> The NEPDCA has sponsored classes at a BM factory here in Boston.


I mean more on the political front of it. In terms of dealing with the epa directly on the legislation, compliance and regulatory aspects of it. The pdca is a powerful political institution. I'd be pretty surprised if this all slipped past them. I wonder what their stance on it is and if they plan to do anything besides sponsoring courses to make it more pallatable for contractors.


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## boman47k

parodi said:


> IMO don't waste time worrying about the shelves. Briefly explain your $37,500 problem and ask that the HO have the thing removed before work commences. Everybody understands money. If someone tells me they just spent $2000 for new drapes I spec that they have them removed before I arrive. If they have a deluxe Plasma TV I spec that I will not be responsible for removing it on the estimate.


You mean have the ho have an epa certified someone remove the shelfing? If not, why put your name on it in any shape, form, or fashion?

I sure would not supervise it.
Nor do I want a ho to prime something I will be painting.
I guess I'm thinking along the lines of "you touch, you own it".


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## parodi

RCP said:


> This is the code that is updated.


I don't know how updated that link is, it's from 2008. But it essentially says the same thing as the compliance.pdf about the simple application of paint not disturbing:

_Activities conducted after post-renovation cleaning verification . Activities that do not disturb paint, such as applying paint to walls that have already been prepared, are not regulated by this subpart if they are conducted after post-renovation cleaning verification has been performed._
_[73 FR 21761, Apr. 22, 2008]_


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## parodi

boman47k said:


> You mean have the ho have an epa certified someone remove the shelfing? If not, why put your name on it in any shape, form, or fashion?
> 
> I sure would not supervise it.
> Nor do I want a ho to prime something I will be painting.
> I guess I'm thinking along the lines of "you touch, you own it".


How are you involved at all if you request that "someone" remove the shelves before your work begins?


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## boman47k

parodi said:


> How are you involved at all if you request that "someone" remove the shelves before your work begins?


I'm thinking I still have to test and clean any lead dust. If I have to do that, why not make the money for the shelf and replacement of the rock.
I touch a contaminated area, I own it. In this case, I might be liable for a long time.


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## parodi

boman47k said:


> I'm thinking I still have to test and clean any lead dust. If I have to do that, why not make the money for the shelf and replacement of the rock.
> I touch a contaminated area, I own it. In this case, I might be liable for a long time.


I'm sorry I wasn't picturing in my head that the HO also wanted you to rip out dry wall after the shelf was removed. So yes you would be in the middle of a lead safe job either way and your way would make more sense. Myself, I'm just interested in using the 6 sf rule ....staying below the 6sf level...to keep my a** away from the lead work rules/requirement from the get go. I know (like my wife says) I am a special case being a paperhanger. I am firmly convinced that with a little bit of forethought a paperhanger can avoid this whole RRP lead thing. Fewer numbers of painters can.

But there still are many painters who can legally avoid the RRP and it does have a lot to do with their location. I'm thinking of my wife's sister who lives in the suburbs of Atlanta. That whole sprawling 20 county mess has almost ALL been built after 1978. I have a friend in Charlotte NC and that place looks exactly the same as Atlanta....all newer houses for miles. You really have to look for a pre-1978 house in many places in the US


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## PatsPainting

I wonder if we could do all the prep work for free, no compensation, then just charge double for the painting? lol

Pat


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## parodi

PatsPainting said:


> I wonder if we could do all the prep work for free, no compensation, then just charge double for the painting? lol
> 
> Pat


Definitely thinking outside the 6 sf box. :thumbsup:

Too bad this trade doesn't have the money get some creative loopholes written into the RRP in Washington.


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## PatsPainting

parodi said:


> Definitely thinking outside the 6 sf box. :thumbsup:
> 
> Too bad this trade doesn't have the money get some creative loopholes written into the RRP in Washington.



Just kinda reminding me of how sometimes on Ebay you will see a product that's value for example would be $300 bucks. So they have it listed as a buy it now for 5 dollars, but the shipping and handling fees are $295.00

I'm sure as time goes on there will be all sorts of methods that will be legal and will let you avoid the RRP stuff. 

Pat


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## CApainter

Why would someone expend so much energy trying to beat the system. This is a done deal. Do the right thing, and you won't have to run your business looking through the rear view mirror.


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