# Paint and Primer vs. Self-Priming



## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

Hoping that someone can explain this one to me. I learned a while back that Califnornia's Unite paint, which states that it is a Paint and Primer is actually a self priming paint. I am wondering how self priming paints work. As I understand, the big difference between paints (I am using this term to denote paints that are not primers) and primers is that primers have more binders. So, do self priming paints simply have more binders than other pants?


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Being the paint geek that I am, I've always wondered that myself. Hopefully some of the paint reps/manufacturers can chime in and enlighten us.


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## matt19422 (Oct 2, 2009)

I think it is more marketing/advertising more than anything else.

I would never substitute any of the paint & primers in one for real primer.

I believe one company coined the phrase and the others had to follow suite due to the buzz.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

I feel it's largely a marketing tactic. 

I'm almost certain that the first time I ever heard the phrase used was in a Behr commercial. Yet another attempt to dumb down painting to the lowest common DIY denominator.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

matt19422 said:


> I think it is more marketing/advertising more than anything else.
> 
> I would never substitute any of the paint & primers in one for real primer.
> 
> I believe one company coined the phrase and the others had to follow suite due to the buzz.


I would never use one of the paints in place of a primer. I am just wondering what the difference is between the two types of paints. And, I do agree with you about the marketing gimmick. I believe that the Unite paint was called simply Fres Coat without any indication of a "paint and primer" before it was changed it Fres Coat Unite.


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

RH said:


> I feel it's largely a marketing tactic.
> 
> I'm almost certain that the first time I ever heard the phrase used was in a Behr commercial.


 Same here...

I know for many years since BM converted the Regal line to an acrylic product the label has read.."for new or previously painted drywall/wallboard". This was long before Behr was talking about "paint with the primer in it".

Now that BM is switching over to the Regal Select and phasing out the classic Regal line they are marketing it to "contain the primer". It's funny because my experience with the newer Regal Select in the eggshell finish is that it flashes a lot more over spackle than the classic line ever did...so where's the primer??? I have been unhappy with it on several projects.

There are also a lot more problems from inexperienced painters & homeowners using the "paint with the primer in it" to coat difficult surfaces that should have a primer/sealer or bonding primer where years ago the store would be more likely to sell them the appropriate primer and finish paints. People can't understand why the paint didn't adhere properly or a stain bled thru because they used the paint with the "primer in it"!!!!! The guys in the store where I buy have pretty much given up trying to explain it and are asking customers if they want the paint with "the primer in it" or not. The paint with the primer in it costs a little more, but you won't have to prime saving you a step...people love it! Needless to say they probably didn't need to prime the bedroom walls to repaint anyway.

I am no chemist, but the acrylic products bond & seal most wall surfaces very well. Most times there is no need for a primer. You can even get away with new drywall if that's how you roll, but it pretty much stops there. 

On a side note... Zinsser Perma-White product line has been saying "use over raw sheetrock or glossy surfaces" since it came out many years ago, but to my knowledge it has never been marketed as having the "primer in it". It just seals and sticks...if that makes it a paint with the "primer in it"...so be it.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

Kinda like how latex is self priming over aluminum... Nothing special with the paint just sticks to aluminum that's all...


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Being the paint geek that I am, I've always wondered that myself. Hopefully some of the paint reps/manufacturers can chime in and enlighten us.


You actually think a paint mfg rep would step foot in this place?:whistling2:


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

Whatever happened to Wolverine? He was a chemist and used to answer questions like this really well...


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

kdpaint said:


> Whatever happened to Wolverine? He was a chemist and used to answer questions like this really well...


NACE is another who would be able to provide some insight.


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## I Hate Painting (Feb 10, 2014)

Behar started the "Self Primer" craze and Valspar quickly followed. Now most paint manufactures lay claim to have the same capabilities. In most cases they are all correct. It is not that these products contain primers - it is that these products are third and forth generation formulations of polymers. Some are actually co-polymers where cross linking of molecules are taking place. Without going into the science behind this I will tell you these new products are light-years ahead of what was available 5 to 10 years ago. One of the tell-tale signs that you are using one of these products is adhesion. Ever notice how much harder it is to wash these paints off your hands - even though they are water based?

I Hate Painting


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## TrueColors (Jul 30, 2010)

I skip the primer in certain situations when using aura... Never had a problem, also thats probably because aura's priming properties is most likely better than most primers.


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## AlisherPainting (Feb 11, 2014)

Pete the Painter said:


> Hoping that someone can explain this one to me. I learned a while back that Califnornia's Unite paint, which states that it is a Paint and Primer is actually a self priming paint. I am wondering how self priming paints work. As I understand, the big difference between paints (I am using this term to denote paints that are not primers) and primers is that primers have more binders. So, do self priming paints simply have more binders than other pants?


When junk paint product manufacturers improve the formula of the binding substance of their paint product, they rename it "Paint and Primer". Any paint can be called Paint and primer because they all contain binders with slightly different formulas. The Best product for me is "Duration" from Sherwin Williams. Any sheen is built in a very advanced binding formula. And its extender is so amazing that 1 gallon of it covers the equal area that other paint products would cover using 2 or 1.5 gallons. Also "Super Paint" from Sherwin Williams is built in a great binding formula but its extender is not so great. They both cover better that some primers out there. 

http://www.diyadvice.com/diy/painting/paint/chemistry/


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

matt19422 said:


> I think it is more marketing/advertising more than anything else.
> 
> I would never substitute any of the paint & primers in one for real primer.
> 
> I believe one company coined the phrase and the others had to follow suite due to the buzz.


So you would never use DTM?


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

I think it is mostly because there was a point at which people/painters would say everything had to be primed. 

I still get people on interior repaints who ask if I'm going to prime first.

Then I have to explain to them that you only need to prime for stain blocking/locking, certain contaminants and certain porous surfaces to create a uniform surface. 

Professional grade modern paints will stick to raw wood, including redwood (though you will likely get tannin bleed), and the manufacturers will back it up. We, as painters, just have to advance with the paint products we use. 

As an example, I was reading a book from 1920 called "The Expert House Painter". It was saying that _all enamel trim should be coated *7 times*!_ There was even a blurb from some guy that stated he specs every job for 13 coats on the trim, and if people didn't think it was necessary he would pass on the job. 

Now, personally, I wish I could sell jobs for 13 coats on the trim. I'd only have to paint like 4 houses per year, but it's just unnecessary.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Can can tell you this:

Aura has better hold out than PPG 6-2, BM 253, or BM Vapor Barrier.

PPG-2 is still our primer of choice for new construction because we like what a spray and back roll does for the appearance of drywall. But, Aura seals the drywall better than any of them.


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## matt19422 (Oct 2, 2009)

straight_lines said:


> So you would never use DTM?


Yes I use DTM.

The paint and primer marketing/advertising is trying to capture the DIY market. 

-Sell a product that eliminates traditional priming...
-Sell a product that covers in one coat....
-Sell the idea that the product makes the job easier, less work, one less step, ect....



Priming is specific to why you would need it for in the first place:

-Adheason
-Hiding
-Stain Blocking
-Sealing


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

For years, Kelly-Moore has had several products that were "self priming". For instance, their exterior 1240 flat and 1245 low sheen. They also came out with a product called "Durapoxy" that was designed to be applied over lightly sanded oil base surfaces without the need to prime. This was in the late 80's or early 90's.

like several members posted above, primers are recommended specifically for certain raw substrates like metal, wood, or masonry. If a job requires more then one coat, (which it usually does on a raw substrate), it's always a best practice to use a designed primer for that particular substrate, including drywall, or patched areas on an existing painted surface.

As I Hate Painting alluded to, paints are constructed of three basic components:

*-Binder/Resin*: Usually where all the proprietary ingredients are combined with acrylic, latex, oils, polymers, whatever, to help a product adhere and form a protective film.

*-Pigments*: This component can include colorant, aluminum, TO2, and other metals that form protective and substrate compatible barriers.

*-Vehicle*: The solvent, including water, that helps carry all of the suspended components from can to wall. Vehicle also helps in the film formation as the solvents evaporate.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

CApainter said:


> For years, Kelly-Moore has had several products that were "self priming". For instance, their exterior 1240 flat and 1245 low sheen. They also came out with a product called "Durapoxy" that was designed to be applied over lightly sanded oil base surfaces without the need to prime. This was in the late 80's or early 90's.
> 
> like several members posted above, primers are recommended specifically for certain raw substrates like metal, wood, or masonry. If a job requires more then one coat, (which it usually does on a raw substrate), it's always a best practice to use a designed primer for that particular substrate, including drywall, or patched areas on an existing painted surface.
> 
> ...


Don't know if this is in response to my OP or all the other post, or all. My OP was not to find out if I should or should not use a primer when I use a self-priming paint or a paint and primer, I will always use a primer when needed. I just want to know what makes a paint "self-priming." How is it formulated differntly form a regular paint and a paint and primer in one paint. This is basically for my own knowledge, and perhaps I can impress a HO now and then if they ask me the difference.


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## The 3rd Coat (Aug 17, 2013)

Most colours of the exterior paint I use are "self-priming". But some are not. The main difference I see is in the viscosity and therefore penetration of the paint. Self-priming colours of the same brand have less tint, are less viscous, feel thinner and flow/penetrate better than the others. The non-self priming stuff just sits on top.

Dedicated primer is still the safest bet, but depending on the surface you're painting you can get away with "self-priming".


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

When I was still dipping my brush, I asked around what the difference between primer and paint - and also how long can a primer be on a surface before coating it.

I talked to a few manufacturers , BM, Big Z, and Calif are the ones that were most helpful.

In a nutshell, I understood that primers are made to penetrate a raw surface more and bond to whatever the substrate and to have a surface onto which a finish coat could adhere. The chemistry of primers was NOT prioritized for color or for resistance to the elements. 

The finish paint was made to do that, while lacking the ability that was already formulated into the primer.

And yes, I was told that primer (exterior BM) should not sit exposed to elements for more than 30 days before coating with finish paint. 

So with that in mind (and this was at least a decade ago), I do wonder how paint can be made with ALL those properties in one can.

Petetrating
Adhesion to the substrate
Providing a surface optimized for adhesion by another coat
Color retention
Resistance to the elements.


Not saying it's impossible (my knowledge of chemistry is in a completely different field - more recreational :whistling2: ), but from all I've heard in the past, there sure were a lot of difficult requirements to meet.


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## Carl (Jun 18, 2011)

Pete the Painter said:


> Don't know if this is in response to my OP or all the other post, or all. My OP was not to find out if I should or should not use a primer when I use a self-priming paint or a paint and primer, I will always use a primer when needed. I just want to know what makes a paint "self-priming." How is it formulated differntly form a regular paint and a paint and primer in one paint. This is basically for my own knowledge, and perhaps I can impress a HO now and then if they ask me the difference.


The only difference between 'primer in the can' paint and 'regular' paint is that one has lies printed on the label and the other does not.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

The differentiation between a finish paint and a primer paint, is in its resin/binder composition. As Bill mentioned, primers are generally designed for a specific application. And that is, to perform better to a raw substrate then a finish paint might. However, and as a consequence of its intended design, primers may lack the ability to perform as well as a finish paint that may have been designed to protect against UV's, and environmental exposure. 

Then there's the hybrids, or Primer/Finish products. They try to offer the best of both worlds, but IMO, only so much attention can be given to a specific discipline in regards to the testing and performance of a product that combines primers and finishes.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

CApainter said:


> The differentiation between a finish paint and a primer paint, is in its resin/binder composition. As Bill mentioned, primers are generally designed for a specific application. And that is, to perform better to a raw substrate then a finish paint might. However, and as a consequence of its intended design, primers may lack the ability to perform as well as a finish paint that may have been designed to protect against UV's, and environmental exposure.
> 
> Then there's the hybrids, or Primer/Finish products. They try to offer the best of both worlds, but IMO, only so much attention can be given to a specific discipline in regards to the testing and performance of a product that combines primers and finishes.


OK, just go and say more succinctly what I was trying to . See if I care :whistling2:


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

he is very good at that:yes:


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## NACE (May 16, 2008)

Wolfgang said:


> You actually think a paint mfg rep would step foot in this place?:whistling2:


I am and I can answer the question.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

NACE said:


> I am and I can answer the question.



Please do.


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## danpaints (Feb 16, 2012)

Jmayspaint said:


> Please do.


Paint is not primer. Primer is not paint. Primer does two things. It penetrates the substrate and gives the surface equilibrium for the top coats to adhere to. That is what gives us painters heartburn... inadequate primers. That is the main cause for sheen issues with back rolling. If the primer seals the walls consistently then there should be no issues with roller lines do paint that is applied per mil spec. The fallacy that a paint and primer are two in one is double edged... the paint may adhere...but consistently...and with continuity. That is questionable. I want to roll on semi gloss with no roller lines. I can do that on a surface that the absorbency rate is consistent. Because my application rate is consistent. The issue is the sealing properties of primer. Prime...and prime well. Otherwise, you will be left with roller lines despite your years of experience. It tends to be a two step process...despite the two in one product.

Dan


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

danpaints said:


> Paint is not primer. Primer is not paint. Primer does two things. It penetrates the substrate and gives the surface equilibrium for the top coats to adhere to. That is what gives us painters heartburn... inadequate primers. That is the main cause for sheen issues with back rolling. If the primer seals the walls consistently then there should be no issues with roller lines do paint that is applied per mil spec. The fallacy that a paint and primer are two in one is double edged... the paint may adhere...but consistently...and with continuity. That is questionable. I want to roll on semi gloss with no roller lines. I can do that on a surface that the absorbency rate is consistent. Because my application rate is consistent. The issue is the sealing properties of primer. Prime...and prime well. Otherwise, you will be left with roller lines despite your years of experience. It tends to be a two step process...despite the two in one product.
> 
> Dan



Have you ever put a coat of Aura on raw rock? Like Dean said, it will seal it better than most primers, same with Emerald, and some other ones I've tried. 

I'm curious about the chemical differences in the 'P&P's. Are they using different resins? What exactly qualifies a product as a "paint &primer..


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## danpaints (Feb 16, 2012)

Jmayspaint said:


> Have you ever put a coat of Aura on raw rock? Like Dean said, it will seal it better than most primers, same with Emerald, and some other ones I've tried.
> 
> I'm curious about the chemical differences in the 'P&P's. Are they using different resins? What exactly qualifies a product as a "paint &primer..


No...but I have applied it to a previously primed and painted surface and was left with the same roller marks I expected to disappear due to my trust in a superior product and in my application rate and expertise..

You think it is possible to prime and paint at once and get a get a consistent sheen? 

If so... you have a nitche. I would exploit that as the bigbox stores have. Aura...paint and primer in one. You should tell BM about your discovery. They might just stop making primers and put the old 2-in-1 on their marketing label too.

I am currently sealing a wall that has been painted 4 times. 4 times!!! By professionals. It has sheen issues. Because of one reason(primarily) absorbtion rate due to inadequate sealer/primer. 

This is common an most sites where sheen (satin or semi-gloss) is introduced to a flat sheen on walls. I see it everywhere here in the Midwest and desire for a meaningful and effective primer that seals gypsum effectively and consistently. 

Dan


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## danpaints (Feb 16, 2012)

danpaints said:


> No...but I have applied it to a previously primed and painted surface and was left with the same roller marks I expected to disappear due to my trust in a superior product and in my application rate and expertise..
> 
> You think it is possible to prime and paint at once and get a get a consistent sheen?
> 
> ...


More visible in daylight...


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Wolfgang said:


> You actually think a paint mfg rep would step foot in this place?:whistling2:


The passcards Carly and I had we were listed as media from painttalk.com. I still don't know why or how they came up with that.

What I did learn was Behr was following what others tried, They realized it is more of a HO type of product and most of us don't believe in them. They do have more binders in them, almost 40% more than standard paints. Some of the chemists knew it was more towards the HO and not us pro's. Once i get my media package from them it will have alot more info on this and I will share it with you guys.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

danpaints said:


> No...but I have applied it to a previously primed and painted surface and was left with the same roller marks I expected to disappear due to my trust in a superior product and in my application rate and expertise..
> 
> You think it is possible to prime and paint at once and get a get a consistent sheen?
> 
> ...


This was one topic they (Behr) covered and said they never said it was a sealer primer, it's just a primer and paint combo.


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## danpaints (Feb 16, 2012)

cdpainting said:


> This was one topic they (Behr) covered and said they never said it was a sealer primer, it's just a primer and paint combo.


Time to take back the craft my friend.


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## danpaints (Feb 16, 2012)

Your answer is your finished product and how you derived it. I am yet deriving. That is why we are here.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

I can answer this one pretty accurately given my past background as a marketing manager for SW. Not sure who was the first, but I remember SW Duration Exterior as the first "self-priming" product on the market. Given the fact that Duration had so much more binder and solids than any other product in SW's line up, it had distinct advantages. Adhesion to lots of substrates with out the need for an additional product "primer" was the major benefit.

Now jump ahead to the interior line-ups and you open up another can of worms. But, lets just think in terms of what paint is: Dirt, glue, and water. Pretty simple right. Better products have more glue than lower grade products or just better glue. Better glue or more of it leads to better adhesion. Adhesion to what? What is an easy product to coat? Walls, texture, wood. These are what most HO's will be coating. Now are "self-priming" product better than using an appropriate primer and then a nice finish coat? Probably not, but they usually get the job done, without the need for buying an additional gallon. 

I would not get to worked up over the marketing aspect of these products. Do what you normally do and you will be fine. Don't try to over extend these product by trying to prime laminate, oil enamel, lacquer, slick metal, etc. you know they won't work and the manufacturers say they won't work, just read a data page and you will see what primer you must use in these cases. I think Behr, or just the HD employees, over sell their product. I think alot of HO's think that self-priming means it has a primer in it, but it is just a finish coat that should stick to normal stuff, its not a real primer.

I use alot of SW Solo because it is self-priming on different stuff. When I shoot texture out of a can, it won't flash or look dull after the first coat. I like that aspect, and like that I don't have to hit it with a wall primer first. Hope this wasn't too painful.


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## scottjr (Jan 14, 2012)

About a year ago I was having lunch with my SW Rep and he straight up told me they just switched the label on Super Paint to say "Paint and Primer in one". He said they never changed the product but did it to rival Behr's and to market to HO's.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

MikeCalifornia said:


> I can answer this one pretty accurately given my past background as a marketing manager for SW. Not sure who was the first, but I remember SW Duration Exterior as the first "self-priming" product on the market. Given the fact that Duration had so much more binder and solids than any other product in SW's line up, it had distinct advantages. Adhesion to lots of substrates with out the need for an additional product "primer" was the major benefit.
> 
> Now jump ahead to the interior line-ups and you open up another can of worms. But, lets just think in terms of what paint is: Dirt, glue, and water. Pretty simple right. Better products have more glue than lower grade products or just better glue. Better glue or more of it leads to better adhesion. Adhesion to what? What is an easy product to coat? Walls, texture, wood. These are what most HO's will be coating. Now are "self-priming" product better than using an appropriate primer and then a nice finish coat? Probably not, but they usually get the job done, without the need for buying an additional gallon.
> 
> ...


So, are you saying that "paint and primer" and "self-priming" are the same creature with a different name? They both just have more binders than normal paint.


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## Stonehampaintdept (Jan 10, 2013)

Pete the Painter said:


> I would never use one of the paints in place of a primer. I am just wondering what the difference is between the two types of paints. And, I do agree with you about the marketing gimmick. I believe that the Unite paint was called simply Fres Coat without any indication of a "paint and primer" before it was changed it Fres Coat Unite.


The Unite label was changed due to the big marketing push set by other major manufacturers. The only thing that changed chemically was the improved brushing features to leave less brush marks to bring it more in line with Regal. It's 100% acrylic technology that gives these paints the ability to put paint & primer in one on them. Self priming is a much better term IMO but like you said, it does in no way take the place of a primer when one is needed. Below I have added a pic of the two sitting on my shelf as a rolling phase out of the old label. No color formulas were changed and their has been no problems starting with old label and finishing a job with the new label.
It's homeowner driven Marketing beating the country over the head.:bangin:


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## Stonehampaintdept (Jan 10, 2013)




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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

danpaints said:


> No...but I have applied it to a previously primed and painted surface and was left with the same roller marks I expected to disappear due to my trust in a superior product and in my application rate and expertise..
> 
> You think it is possible to prime and paint at once and get a get a consistent sheen?
> 
> ...



Perhaps you should read the Aura specs. BM already knows that Aura is self priming, as the recommended system for new wallboard/plaster is 1-2 coats of Aura with no primer, same with Regal. 

And yes, it's possible to get a consistent sheen on walls with two coats of paint. Happens all the time.


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

1234


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

Pete the Painter said:


> So, are you saying that "paint and primer" and "self-priming" are the same creature with a different name? They both just have more binders than normal paint.


Nope, they are the same product regardless of what the label says.

To be self-priming, paint and primer in one, etc. a product is normally a 100% acrylic formulation. Not always the case, as SW Superpaint is not 100% acylic, but the acrylic resin that is in the product is a premium. Like my example with SW Solo over texture, I don't think Superpaint is as good as Solo. Solo seals better, but they both work without having to pull out a primer and hit those spots. 

Honestly, most guys have been doing this with just about any product for ever, but companies are just playing the game to catch up to what Behr has done. You can't argue the commercials and labels help sell their product. It's all target marketing to the HO, but it affects our business due to what the HO now expects. They think you should be able to buy a couple of gallons of Behr or "self-priming" whatever and just paint their lacquer cabinets, and wonder why your quote is so expensive? Then they try to do it themselves and have total failure, who's fault is that? The HO or HD?

I noticed the pic of California Unite, paint and primer. You guys understand that when painting over semi-gloss, the majority of people in a paint store, Lowes, HD, or paint sales counter will tell a HO that they must prime first then paint!! I know that is stupid, but it is the truth. If now you can tell a HO just clean the surface, maybe degloss, then just coat with a "paint and primer in one" can, you sound like a hero to them. HO are always dealing with coated surfaces, rarely anything new, so this marketing is direct to them. For painters in new contruction, nothing changes, don't try to bring "paint and primer in one" to a job site a try to get away with not priming, you will be laughed off the job. Stick with the basics, don't let marketing cloud your judgement.


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## READY TO ROLL (Dec 12, 2011)

I'm starting to get homeowners requesting "paint w/primer" after seeing the Home Depot commercials.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I think we need to consider the ph values of a surface to be coated in terms of what products are designed for these particular surfaces. Just because a paint covers really well due to its high solids and flowability, doesn't mean it has the particular properties in its resin that allows compatabilty with a high akyline or acidic substrate. Some primer finish paints will be designed to accomodate these ph ranges, but if theres any question or doubt, primer specific is the best practice.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

If you don't need primer for build to hide imperfections then a lot of the high quality paints can be applied directly to drywall and as mentioned and do a better job sealing than any primer other than guardz would do.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

Stonehampaintdept said:


> The only thing that changed chemically was the improved brushing features to leave less brush marks to bring it more in line with Regal.



I have used the semi-gloss and it levels really nice.


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## Dkon7 (Jan 23, 2013)

*Paint & Primer is a myth*

However it is one of the most successful, although tremendously misleading marketing campaigns of our time. The thought itself appeals to our inherent search for an easier and faster way of completing a task. And those that would not do their research or ask questions are easily convinced that these products are 'revolutionary', or a 'magic wand.'

But if you read the product data pages, they basically tell you to;


Apply a first coat of the product and call it primer. Then
 Apply a second coat and call it paint.
 They will also instruct the user that at times, 2 coats may of the product may be required as a primer. Then more than one topcoat may be required for complete hide. If you do the math, that is 4 coats for a product was advertised or portrayed as a 1 coat system over any substrate you choose to paint.

The fact remains that there is no self-stratification phenomena to separate primer and topcoat technologies within one product. You may be able to 'get by' with satisfactory results when using these products as a primer and finish paint but the best quality finish will be achieved with the use of the appropriate primers and finish paints. Doing it right the first time gets you and your customers the finest quality finishes without the gimmick of Paint & Primer In One.


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## Happee_grrl (Feb 9, 2014)

*It's Paint!! Regular Paint!!*

Dkon7 has it...I know this because when I worked in the one of the little hardware stores in town, we sold Valspar paint in 3 versions, Elan, Medallion and Hank's Supreme. Then the primer+paint phenomenon happened. They actually shipped new labels, and Hank's Supreme became Valspar Paint+ Primer, and I had to remove the old labels and put new labels on our stock. Lovely task.

Complete marketing scam. I tell my customers if I need to prime, I will. It's better to pay attention to details in the long run, IMHO.


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## Wings Fan (Feb 22, 2014)

I agree with happee_grrll. I've been in this industry for 30 years and everything is now sneaky specialized. If you read the label of prime and paint products they state "over previously primed or painted surfaces". These products are not intended for bare substrates and do require a primer. They depend on consumers to not read labeling. In the day exterior paints were labelled as self-priming over masonry surfaces, today there are special primers. Cleaning used to be done with cheap TSP or Dirtex and now more expensive cleaners are used. Sealing concrete floors and wood used to be equal mixtures of kerosene, pure gum turpentine, and boiled linseed oil, now specialized expensive sealers are used. The list goes on and on. Good painters usually figure it out.


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## 804 Paint (Jan 31, 2014)

I would like to know what product "B" is here. I have a feeling I know what "B" stands for, but we'll leave it at that.

http://issuu.com/painthacker/docs/phm_vol1_no1b/29?e=9361967/4924952

It's an article by Brian Havanas, who is, I assume the alter ego of Jack Pauhl (I was all confused before, thinking Jack Pauhl was a real person…or am I still confused?). Seems to claim that the paint used in this example did a better job of sealing the substrate than a number of primers. 

I'm not sure he's directly saying "use this paint as your go-to for new drywall" - he could be saying that this is a specific product for a specific purpose: to be used as a primer. If you want a different topcoat, use it.

Kind-of interesting. If the product isn't ridiculously expensive and works to solve a specific problem, why not use it to avoid headaches?


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

804 Paint said:


> I would like to know what product "B" is here. I have a feeling I know what "B" stands for, but we'll leave it at that.
> 
> http://issuu.com/painthacker/docs/phm_vol1_no1b/29?e=9361967/4924952
> 
> ...



This topic has been widely covered here. I will say that guardz is the best product I know of to seal drywall in one coat. There are some paints like b that do excel at that.


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