# question for a tape expert



## salestrainer (Oct 4, 2009)

Taped a stained baseboard with blue tape, caulked against it with clear caulk. After painting wall, pulled tape off, got the dreaded jagged edge and some caulk pulling away with tape. I normally tape the baseboard and caulk against it with good results....it does a couple of things, one I don't have to worry about roller splatter, two-it gives me laser sharp lines. I am just concerned about this particular job, what happened. I wasn't using the frog tape, because I assumed with the caulk sealing the tape, it really wouldn't be neccessary. Any advice would be appreciated!


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## DecorativeWalls (Apr 14, 2008)

The only tape I use and will ever use is #2080- orange core delicate blue painters tape.
Frog tape has left some jagged edges for me when experimenting with it and I always come back to my long time favorite which has *never* let me down.

Just curious , was your caulking dry through & through?


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

Lightly cut the tape edge before pulling- And I use a clear sealer like Peel Bond or guardz rather than caulk- much faster/easier.


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## salestrainer (Oct 4, 2009)

BrushJockey said:


> Lightly cut the tape edge before pulling- And I use a clear sealer like Peel Bond or guardz rather than caulk- much faster/easier.


 
Another benefit of caulking is that many times the baseboards have gaps anyway, so I figure I am killing 2 birds at the same time, also I failed to mention I've never had this problem with white caulk, only clear...I use SW 950a caulk if that helps. I usually paint over it a couple hours later, usually no problem.


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## Dunbar Painting (Mar 19, 2010)

what kind of tape do you use BrushJockey?


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

I am confused, you put caulking over the tape?
I use regular blue tape for everything, if I am taping stained base and a bit of paint bleeds, I grab a rag with some waterbase OOPS! with my knife and wipe it away. Caulking seems like overkill imho, that is if I am reading the op correctly?


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## venetian designs (Nov 24, 2007)

Wait...is the clear caulk silicone? And you're painting over it?


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

venetian designs said:


> Wait...is the clear caulk silicone? And you're painting over it?


there's a clear latex, goes on white, dries clear.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

I've never understood the tape then caulk. I always have caulked first, then taped over. Seems like the tape would pull the caulk off.


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## Dunbar Painting (Mar 19, 2010)

The one time I tried this the tape did pull the caulk off... so I don't really understand how people get this to work either.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Well guys keep in mind that you only need to seal the edge of the tape, when you caulk apply the thinest amount you can and then wipe 99% percent of it off. You should not be able to see hardly any caulk when your done.This way it seals the edge and dries in like five mins, and when you pull the tape it's not thick enough to pull from the walls.Remember if you get too much it will stream from the walls when you pull the tape.


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

Sales- forget about the caulk filling the gap AND sealing the tape. Should be 2 seperate operations. And the caulk for the gap should be dry before taping. 
Dunbar- I use 3M 2050 most of the time. The blue tape is way overrated to me. I have more issues with having enough stick than not enough. And the clear sealer works...


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## tsunamicontract (May 3, 2008)

johnpaint said:


> Well guys keep in mind that you only need to seal the edge of the tape, when you caulk apply the thinest amount you can and then wipe 99% percent of it off. You should not be able to see hardly any caulk when your done.This way it seals the edge and dries in like five mins, and when you pull the tape it's not thick enough to pull from the walls.Remember if you get too much it will stream from the walls when you pull the tape.


Exactly what John said. You just want to burn in the tape, not caulk it in. Sales, when there is a small gap between wall and trim (ie first painting on real plaster) you need to cheat the tape back about 1/16 of an inch so that you can do this. If you run tape flush with the edge of the trim you will get your problem unless you cut it all out, which might defeat the purpose of your tape job, making everything take a lot longer.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

salestrainer said:


> Taped a stained baseboard with blue tape, caulked against it with clear caulk. After painting wall, pulled tape off, got the dreaded jagged edge and some caulk pulling away with tape. I normally tape the baseboard and caulk against it with good results....it does a couple of things, one I don't have to worry about roller splatter, two-it gives me laser sharp lines. I am just concerned about this particular job, what happened. I wasn't using the frog tape, because I assumed with the caulk sealing the tape, it really wouldn't be neccessary. Any advice would be appreciated!


Clear caulk has a funky dry time. It works best if it dries overnight.


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## salestrainer (Oct 4, 2009)

Thanks for all the guidance. Typically i try to tape just a hair off the edge of the base, then mash a thin bead of caulk onto the edge (like Johnpaint says). It dries quick, seals any tiny gaps in trim, looks good. Looking back, it seems like maybe the clear caulk wasn't dried enough. As far as cutting the edge of the tape to avoid the issue, how can you tell where to cut,with caulk and paint over the edge?


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## charleymcdowell (Mar 27, 2010)

I guess I am confused as well. Let me see if I have this right. Stained Base Boards to textured wall. Tape it off with a 1/16 reveal on the baseboard then caulk the gaps making sure to wipe very clean. Then paint directly on to the blue tape wait for it to dry and then peel the blue tape away. This sounds like the caulking is creating a perfect seal betwixt tape and baseboard avoiding the dreaded jagged edge. Am I grasping this correctly. I have always just caulked the baseboard without tap and made sure that none was left on the baseboard itself and then painted right to the edge of the caulk but if this works it sounds like it really could give you " razor sharp lines"


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

My boys caulk the top of the tape all the time.Gives great sharp lines.It's the same principle as when you want to do an accent wall.Tape wall,paint tape with that color,let dry,then do accent.Again great lines.


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## boman47k (May 10, 2008)

Letting the paint dry *before* pulling the tape?The paint does not pull off when the tape is removed? I have never tried the caulking method. Sometimes, I wish maybe I had.


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

aaron61 said:


> Tape wall,paint tape with that color,let dry,then do accent.Again great lines.


Having the color of the wall your taping onto is the ideal situation for that. 

There are more times than not when doing a partial interior repaint, that you do not have the luxury of having the current wall paint and the need to caulk or seal the edge of the tape with something else is crucial. When doing colored walls (not white or offwhite), the clear caulk is ideal because it leaves no color under the tape (on textured walls, especially orange peel or coarser textures). But if you do not have access to clear caulk for whatever reason, then a caulk color that closely matches the wall your taping onto is best. 

Frog tape sux for textured walls. Textured wall get the paint or caulk sealer. I use frog tape for the base to wall method, works every time! No caulk needed! Love it...


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## VanDamme (Feb 13, 2010)

*" I use frog tape for the base to wall method, works every time! No caulk needed! Love it..."*

I think you're in the Portland area? If so, give the green Intertape a shot. Much cheaper than Frog tape. This isn't the lacquer tape, but the other green tape you'll see at Miller, Rodda, maybe even SW. It's replaced blue tape as my tape of choice.


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

VanDamme said:


> *" I use frog tape for the base to wall method, works every time! No caulk needed! Love it..."*
> 
> I think you're in the Portland area? If so, give the green Intertape a shot. Much cheaper than Frog tape. This isn't the lacquer tape, but the other green tape you'll see at Miller, Rodda, maybe even SW. It's replaced blue tape as my tape of choice.


Yup.

I'll keep an eye out for it. Thanks.


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

If I cannot rely on the tape for a crisp edge, or I am doing stencil work, a light coating of polyacrylic makes a quick seal.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Is it OK if I mention again that I do not understand the need for tape when doing things like brush work and now caulking?

Sorry, but I don't got Parkinson's ...... yet


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

daArch said:


> Is it OK if I mention again that I do not understand the need for tape when doing things like brush work and now caulking?
> 
> Sorry, but I don't got Parkinson's ...... yet


Don't even go there... You like beating a dead horse? I know your having a hard time understanding the tape line out qualifies the hand painted line... but lets not get into this again... :whistling2:


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

daArch said:


> Is it OK if I mention again that I do not understand the need for tape when doing things like brush work and now caulking?
> 
> Sorry, but I don't got Parkinson's ...... yet


I will use tape for brush work on vertical stripes, or new construction door and window trim. Otherwise it is for protecting base trim from roller spatter...on my jobs anyhow.
Caulking stained trim is new to me.


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

I will have to admit, the skill to hand paint a line that matches the perfection of taped lines is something to brag about. But as for quality lines, the tape is the way to go and you don't have to spend years mastering the skill as you do for hand painted lines. :thumbsup:


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> I will have to admit, the skill to hand paint a line that matches the perfection of taped lines is something to brag about. But as for quality lines, the tape is the way to go and you don't have to spend years mastering the skill as you do for hand painted lines. :thumbsup:


If I am using helpers, taped lines is the way to go for consistency. 16,000sq. ft. cutom homes with a few colors and 7 painters would look terrible without it!


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## salestrainer (Oct 4, 2009)

In many case there are gaps between the trim and wall, so if you are going to caulk anyway, and you are going to tape the baseboard for splatters, what's the big deal. May as well do it as a process that will give you the added benefit of a clean line, and quicker cut times. In many cases, you can roll down to baseboard and save much cutting time. I shared a job recently with a experienced painter who laughed at me for doing this....however after looking at his baseboard cut lines, he REALLY SHOULD look into it.......lol! Some of these guys can't cut nearly as straight as they think they can. I can cut cut as straight as any paint job I've seen, yet I'm not to macho to know there are better ways sometimes. Anyway if this is worst problem I have this month, I'll be in good shape, been a tough month so far....off to strip wallpaper, ARGH!


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

Wrestling wallpaper today myself...hate it. Now I can dig caulking trim, but not stained trim. That is not a painter issue imho.


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## Bighead (Nov 28, 2008)

DecorativeWalls said:


> The only tape I use and will ever use is #2080- orange core delicate blue painters tape.
> Frog tape has left some jagged edges for me when experimenting with it and I always come back to my long time favorite which has *never* let me down.
> 
> Just curious , was your caulking dry through & through?


:thumbup:


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## JHill (May 13, 2010)

I have never had to caulk my tape to get it to seal. Keep the tape on the trim and off the walls and strike it with a flex knife. Like Wise said earlier
if by chance you have a seep wipe with knife and wet rag


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## paintcontractor (Apr 23, 2010)

i have used the tape and caulk method one time, it takes to much time. i could have the line cut by the time i would have taped and caulked. i don’t like that the caulk builds the mills up either. also if the caulking does not have accurate coverage 
dirt will stick to it. when you pull the tape off it will create a unfinished edge.


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## salestrainer (Oct 4, 2009)

paintcontractor said:


> i have used the tape and caulk method one time, it takes to much time. i could have the line cut by the time i would have taped and caulked. i don’t like that the caulk builds the mills up either. also if the caulking does not have accurate coverage
> dirt will stick to it. when you pull the tape off it will create a unfinished edge.


 
Again, when your going to caulk gaps in the trim to wall seam anyway, how can it take longer? If you are going to caulk the gaps, then tape the baseboard anyway, why not do it as one process with the added benefits of clean lines and faster painting time? And the fraction of a fraction of caulk buildup (very minimal if done properly) is gonna be a lot less noticable that gaps, unclean cut lines, and baseboard splatter. Again I have painted behind several painters who don't use tape or caulk, and after working behind them, THEY SHOULD!


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## JHill (May 13, 2010)

salestrainer said:


> Taped a stained baseboard with blue tape, caulked against it with clear caulk. After painting wall, pulled tape off, got the dreaded jagged edge and some caulk pulling away with tape. I normally tape the baseboard and caulk against it with good results....it does a couple of things, one I don't have to worry about roller splatter, two-it gives me laser sharp lines. I am just concerned about this particular job, what happened. I wasn't using the frog tape, because I assumed with the caulk sealing the tape, it really wouldn't be neccessary. Any advice would be appreciated!


I don't understand why your caulking stained trim anyway. But I thought I would share my opinion. I only use blue tape for taping onto drywall. I use 3M #2020 for all my trim, it is sticky enough to seal great and it's not to sticky that it wont come off, even after a week or so. Give it a try. :thumbup:


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## DecorativeWalls (Apr 14, 2008)

I've never understood why anyone would take the time to caulk any way. Takes to long and if you burnish like I do, there should never be a problem; oh and use the only tape on the market that means something. 

Gee, if a person is having trouble with tape release use a craft knife or a box cutter type to lightly score before removing the tape.


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## JHill (May 13, 2010)

DecorativeWalls said:


> I've never understood why anyone would take the time to caulk any way. Takes to long and if you burnish like I do, there should never be a problem; oh and use the only tape on the market that means something.
> 
> Gee, if a person is having trouble with tape release use a craft knife or a box cutter type to lightly score before removing the tape.


Are you saying that you don't caulk your painted trim either?


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## DecorativeWalls (Apr 14, 2008)

no, I am just talking about using caulk to act as a sealant for tape. That's what I meant if it didn't come across clear enough. The only thing I will use to make sure I have a good tape seal when I am doing a decorative finish (depending on the depth of the finish) I will use setcoat clear or acrylic glaze. It is very fast as opposed to using caulk.


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## JHill (May 13, 2010)

DecorativeWalls said:


> no, I am just talking about using caulk to act as a sealant for tape. That's what I meant if it didn't come across clear enough. The only thing I will use to make sure I have a good tape seal when I am doing a decorative finish (depending on the depth of the finish) I will use setcoat clear or acrylic glaze. It is very fast as opposed to using caulk.


I was thinking thats what you meant but I wasnt sure.


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## salestrainer (Oct 4, 2009)

JHill said:


> I don't understand why your caulking stained trim anyway. But I thought I would share my opinion. I only use blue tape for taping onto drywall. I use 3M #2020 for all my trim, it is sticky enough to seal great and it's not to sticky that it wont come off, even after a week or so. Give it a try. :thumbup:


 
I guess I am not communicating this properly....on many basboards you have gaps (you can see daylight!) between the wall and baseboard trim...this also happens with stained trim, lol! anyway if you are going to caulk that and then tape baseboard anyway for splatters, there is no extra time....just extra bebefits...btw, anyone who doesn't tape a stained baseboard (especially in a nicer home) for splatter, is tougher than me, it is too easy to get a couple of splatters or drips!


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

salestrainer said:


> I guess I am not communicating this properly....on many basboards you have gaps (you can see daylight!) between the wall and baseboard trim...this also happens with stained trim, lol! anyway if you are going to caulk that and then tape baseboard anyway for splatters, there is no extra time....just extra bebefits...btw, anyone who doesn't tape a stained baseboard (especially in a nicer home) for splatter, is tougher than me, it is too easy to get a couple of splatters or drips!


I don't like to caulk baseboard trim even when there is a gap. There may be a time when they need to remove it and then they have a mess on their hands. But yeah, I always thought it was standard to tape/mask baseboard to protect from splatter.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

TJ Paint said:


> I don't like to caulk baseboard trim even when there is a gap. There may be a time when they need to remove it and then they have a mess on their hands. But yeah, I always thought it was standard to tape/mask baseboard to protect from splatter.


WTF:blink:


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## PrepFirstPainting (Sep 3, 2010)

*Removing Tape*

FYI: also make sure if you are using any material with a sheen (all but flat) make sure you pull the tape (at a 45' angle) while the material is wet. this will stop the paint from pulling up the wall (jagged edge).

Not really critical for flat paint.l


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

didnt bother reading everyones post but I can answer this. Clear calk is more siloconized (more rubbery). Need to wipe the calk down thin! only leaving enough to seal any bleed under the tape. If you left too much (especially with clear) it will have the tendacy of stretching and jagging out what should have been crisp, straight lines. Carry a break away knife and peel slowly. 

Second. There is a magic window in peeling. You can peel the tape if you calk and paint immediately (If you see jaggs STOP) but ideally wait longer for no guess results. 8+ hours. 

Third. Break your tape line at a single point. when you peel tape edges, start at one point and stay AHEAD of the remining tape to be pulled. You want to have a single breaking point versus lifting the paint and risking jaggs or even worse, peeling larger sections of uncured paint. 

For all you old schoolers, I love your lines (I think mine are better) and I can knock out production and detail via tape/ calk combo. I Use Intertape PG-29 Low tac. No paint peel problems and good adhesion. Cheaper than blue tape and crepe backed so good radiusing on non-linear bands. 

Cost is more in materials with the tape calk combo, but I know what the end result is going to be and don't have to worry about cutting out every edge on every coat. That and I am FAST and clean at this method of prep.

Do what works for you. I cut, I spray, I roll, I tape and calk. Versatility is a benchmark of a profitable business. Knowing what is the best tool in your arsenal of tricks to use and when to use it sets you apart from the rest. 

Minor critique though. On baseboards or any smooth surface, white calk is sufficient. I only use clear calk on deep color changes with texture (Accent walls, etc.) This way if the calk penetrates under the tape, there is not a white band in the spots it penetrated. (For all you that just use blue tape, the paint would have bleed under at these points anyways, and a lot more than the c alk did).


Hope this answers your question thoroughly.....


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## VanDamme (Feb 13, 2010)

I've been known to tape and seal when there's a major contrast between accent and wall color.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Dude, the 2nd picture tape line on the texture is _sharp! :thumbsup:_


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## CK_68847 (Apr 17, 2010)

salestrainer said:


> Taped a stained baseboard with blue tape, caulked against it with clear caulk. After painting wall, pulled tape off, got the dreaded jagged edge and some caulk pulling away with tape. I normally tape the baseboard and caulk against it with good results....it does a couple of things, one I don't have to worry about roller splatter, two-it gives me laser sharp lines. I am just concerned about this particular job, what happened. I wasn't using the frog tape, because I assumed with the caulk sealing the tape, it really wouldn't be neccessary. Any advice would be appreciated!


Blue tape is junk and expensive. Diamond Vogel has the best tape ever for lines( which is as good as frog tape) and other jobs where you want a low tack tape. It is just their reglular tape. Intertape also has one very similar which your local sherwin williams can get in. I still advise when making a line with any tape still going back with your base color and sealing it however before you put on the other color.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Dude, the 2nd picture tape line on the texture is _sharp! :thumbsup:_


I agree looks good. :thumbup:


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## VanDamme (Feb 13, 2010)

When i get home tonight. I'll post a couple pics of a stripe i did this weekend


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

VanDamme said:


> I've been known to tape and seal when there's a major contrast between accent and wall color.[/IMG]


RE: the blue/tan photo... if you carry the blue (or any darker color) over on the tan wall, (just a bit, like barely on it but on it) it will eliminate the tan from dominating the blue in the corner. When I look at that line I see tan in the corner, not blue. just sayin :thumbsup: that other photo is crazy tight and straight


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## VanDamme (Feb 13, 2010)

Here's a room I did this weekend in the house I'm painting.

Customer wanted a stripe to match the wood trim you see in the corner w/dark blue below and the general wall color above. I also painted the ceiling white.










The customer had a quart of Behr premium semi-gloss latex that matched the trim so I just used that for the stripe. I figured it was no big deal if I had to 4-coat the stripe since it was masked off and could be rolled.

To my pleasant surprise the stripe coverd excellent in two coats!


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

i'd hire ya, but you prolly are too expensive.


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## VanDamme (Feb 13, 2010)

jack pauhl said:


> RE: the blue/tan photo... if you carry the blue (or any darker color) over on the tan wall, (just a bit, like barely on it but on it) it will eliminate the tan from dominating the blue in the corner. When I look at that line I see tan in the corner, not blue. just sayin :thumbsup: that other photo is crazy tight and straight


JP, That is an accent color I did in the master bedroom. The lighting really sucked and it was hard to even get a decent picture. I think what you might be seeing is the camera flash reflecting unevenly. It really does look good in person.


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## VanDamme (Feb 13, 2010)

TJ Paint said:


> i'd hire ya, but you prolly are too expensive.


Not at all! This was one of my $99 rooms I advertise! :no:


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## VanDamme (Feb 13, 2010)

jack pauhl said:


> RE: the blue/tan photo... if you carry the blue (or any darker color) over on the tan wall, (just a bit, like barely on it but on it) it will eliminate the tan from dominating the blue in the corner. When I look at that line I see tan in the corner, not blue. just sayin :thumbsup: that other photo is crazy tight and straight


Here's another pic. The blue is still wet


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

CK_68847 said:


> Blue tape is junk and expensive.


I use blue tape all the time. And I prefer the regular kind, not the "delicate"



CK_68847 said:


> Intertape also has one very similar which your local sherwin williams can get in.


Intertape?

I have wanted to strangle people over my experiences with Intertape.


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

VanDamme said:


> Here's a room I did this weekend in the house I'm painting.


Super quadruple, extra triple nice dude.

It doesn't get more precise and clean than that.

Those lines look awesome, and that job looks awesome.

And let the readers take note that the artisan's preference was ( ahem ) a PAN. :whistling2:

Don't hate the player, hate the game. Ditch the grid, and have no shame.


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## VanDamme (Feb 13, 2010)

> And let the readers take note that the artisan's preference was ( ahem ) a PAN.


I did use a 5w/grid when I was painting the large ceiling off the stagging,

I'll finish this job up Tuesday.


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

VanDamme said:


> I did use a 5w/grid when I was painting the large ceiling off the stagging,
> 
> I'll finish this job up Tuesday.



Perfect, the right tool for the right job.

I have always seen the merits of 5's and grids in some situations. In fact the first large company I worked for for several years used 5's and grids. 

It's like when people ask me if I use sanding sponges, or hold sandpaper.

I use both, depending on the situation. Somtimes I even carry both, and use sandpaper for a particular part of the surface, and a sponge for a different part of the surface.

GASP!


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## Rob (Aug 9, 2009)

That room looks great, nice lines!


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

VanDamme said:


> Here's a room I did this weekend in the house I'm painting.
> 
> Customer wanted a stripe to match the wood trim you see in the corner w/dark blue below and the general wall color above. I also painted the ceiling white.
> 
> ...


This looks sharp.. nice colors too.


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## CK_68847 (Apr 17, 2010)

Last Craftsman said:


> I use blue tape all the time. And I prefer the regular kind, not the "delicate"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There are a lot of different kinds of intertape. They do sell a low tack tape which is very similar to Diamand Vogels. I would still say Diamond Vogel is better. I have done a ton of lines. Like I said when you tape a line you should still seal it with the base color before you do the line color. If you do it properly you will make a perfect line. The Diamond Vogel tape is even great for taping door frames the next day after spraying them with oil. I have even done this when jobs are really cold in the winter without ripping paint off the frame. Like I said it's by far the best low tack tape I have used. Another thing it works great on is outside work in the summer. If you have to leave your tape on for multiple days it will not bake on the surface you are trying to protect. The low tack intertape is also good outside.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

CK_68847 said:


> I would still say Diamond Vogel is better. I have done a ton of lines. Like I said when you tape a line you should still seal it with the base color before you do the line color. If you do it properly you will make a perfect line. The Diamond Vogel tape is even great for taping door frames the next day after spraying them with oil. I have even done this when jobs are really cold in the winter without ripping paint off the frame. Like I said it's by far the best low tack tape I have used. Another thing it works great on is outside work in the summer. If you have to leave your tape on for multiple days it will not bake on the surface you are trying to protect.


:thumbsup: I use it full time, unless I need to tape uncured surfaces.


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