# Tub & Tile Reglazing Specialists? Are you out there?



## TJ Landry (Aug 3, 2010)

hey Guys, Im sort of new to the site and I notice a distinct lack of Tub and Tile painting discussion on the site. I came by a couple years ago and there might have been one or two threads but that's about it.

I'm out of RI and in the state there might be 4-5 guys doing this kind of work. In nearby MA. that number is about double. I'm a bit surprised because it's an area that has some great growth potential without a lot of overhead and very little need for large crews. Matter of fact I\ve been doing well on my own for almost 6 months. 

I'm 55 and I got out of regular painting after doing it for 30+ years. With the advent of Craigslist and its free advertising there is a glut of "painters" out there (evidently if you've picked up a paintbrush in the past it qualifies one as a master painter) who will do what I did for about 80% less than what I used to charge for an average room. Of course hiring illegals @ $5 per hour while not paying taxes, workers comp etc doesn't hurt their bottom line. I simply stopped trying to compete with that. Its a losing game which is why I picked up the Tub and Tile gig.

Anyhoo, I'd figure I'd throw out a few feelers here hoping to swap info and help with some problem solving. I use the Top_Kote system for my work. There seems to be about 4-5 manufacturers who make products specifically aimed at tub & tile work. I'd be interested in hearing from thos using other products and what kind of luck you've had with it.

Oh, and I also do laminate countertop refinishing using the Multi-Spec system. It gives old countertops a granite-like finish which can be done for about 30% of the cost of putting real granite in. I'd be interested to hear from people using other types of countertop refinishing systems as well.

OK, enough out of me. Hope to hear from ya'll. :thumbup:

Regards

-TJ


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

TJ Landry said:


> hey Guys, Im sort of new to the site and I notice a distinct lack of Tub and Tile painting discussion on the site. I came by a couple years ago and there might have been one or two threads but that's about it.
> 
> I'm out of RI and in the state there might be 4-5 guys doing this kind of work. In nearby MA. that number is about double. I'm a bit surprised because it's an area that has some great growth potential without a lot of overhead and very little need for large crews. Matter of fact I\ve been doing well on my own for almost 6 months.
> 
> ...


Search for PT member Driftweed. He does tub and tile.

From what I gather, tub and tile repaint is really no different than applying any two component material. And as an industrial painter, I've had over twenty years of applying that stuff. 

I think refinishing is just a more budget oriented application than actually replacing tiles, or counter tops with something more authentic and perhaps, more aesthetically pleasing. But I'm sure there's a market for it. 

I also would be concerned about the isocyanates if you're applying polyurethanes rather than polyamide epoxies. I don't have the interest to read the TDS, but I'm sure you know what you're using.


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## fredo (Nov 20, 2011)

Thanks TJ. 
This is something I've been wanted to look at. We have a Titan HVLP turbine, one of their most expensive ones. I use it for furniture and touch ups occasionally. I'm curious, what spray system do you use? And Top Kote is a manufacturer?


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## TJ Landry (Aug 3, 2010)

fredo said:


> Thanks TJ.
> This is something I've been wanted to look at. We have a Titan HVLP turbine, one of their most expensive ones. I use it for furniture and touch ups occasionally. I'm curious, what spray system do you use? And Top Kote is a manufacturer?


That Titan (Capspray I assume?) is perfect for doing T&T work. I bought a small Fuji 3 stage turbine and matching gun from the Top-Kote site 

http://www.topkote.com/categories/reglazing-spray-equipment-accessories-and-parts/hvlp-spray-systems 

It does the trick. The guy who taught me how to do T&T used Top-Kote so thats pretty much what Ive stuck with. The other manufacturers products seem unnecessarily old fashioned and complicated (not to mention toxic) but having never used them I could be mistaken. I've had good luck with Tk so I haven't gone elsewhere. The learning curve is low, if you can spray furniture you can do T&T. The TK site pushes their "training classes" but they seem to be a little too costly for something you can learn within a couple of days. The main thing with this type of work is prep. Silicon and oils needs to be removed down to the last speck.

Money-wise I generally charge the following

Tub Only $250-$300 (3 hours labor total)

Tub and Tile surround (or one piece fiberglass unit) $450 - $600 (5 hours total)

Tub/Tile surround with full bath half wall tile $750 - $1200 (8 hours)

Best customers are contractors who concentrate on flipping properties, income property owners and those who have a tight budget but need to bring their unit up to snuff.

I love the short hours and decent money. Ive dropped all my mainstream painting to concentrate on this. ATM Im bidding on a 200 unit section 8 housing unit. I highly recommend looking into it. :yes:


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## Boco (May 18, 2013)

I like your prices. I do some tubs and showers now and then. Right now I am working on a fiberglass hot tub and shower. I have had a lot of success using Klass kote. Do you have any tips for prep? I always wanted to try some type of electric buffer or something but always end up prepping by hand.


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

Another topkoter!! You totally need to go to school and chat with george, dude knows his stuff. Plus he'll feed ya, haha. 

I use the caps pray 75, but really wanna step up to something that has a remote shutoff, I'm tired of cramming everything in the doorway haha.

Here I get: tub 400, surround 700, inlay 1200, and I do fiberglass repair as well (it's easier than you think). No demand here for multispec though from what I've seen ($15/sqft)

I love how everyone knows and sticks to the procing, like plumbers and sparkies. And your right, not much competition.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

driftweed said:


> Another topkoter!! You totally need to go to school and chat with george, dude knows his stuff. Plus he'll feed ya, haha.
> 
> I use the caps pray 75, but really wanna step up to something that has a remote shutoff, I'm tired of cramming everything in the doorway haha.
> 
> ...



Hey Drift, when we were doing Tile Clad on Multi-Units, I'd plug the HVLP into a digital Christmas Light Timer, and then into the wall. The timer comes with a keychain remote just like you see for a car alarm. $10-$15 at any home improvement center.


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

That's an awesome idea.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> Hey Drift, when we were doing Tile Clad on Multi-Units, I'd plug the HVLP into a digital Christmas Light Timer, and then into the wall. The timer comes with a keychain remote just like you see for a car alarm. $10-$15 at any home improvement center.


What would be the purpose of this?


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

journeymanPainter said:


> What would be the purpose of this?


Usually, the turbine runs until you shut it off. When working in cramped spaces, it's nice to have the ability to shut off the rig so you can do whatever you have to do before starting to spray again. Also, many times the areas that are being sprayed, (at least with Tile Clad), are walled off and dust free. Each time you have to break the seal, the more risk of contamination, both inside & outside of the work zone.


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## fredo (Nov 20, 2011)

Christmas Light timer....brilliant!


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> Usually, the turbine runs until you shut it off. When working in cramped spaces, it's nice to have the ability to shut off the rig so you can do whatever you have to do before starting to spray again. Also, many times the areas that are being sprayed, (at least with Tile Clad), are walled off and dust free. Each time you have to break the seal, the more risk of contamination, both inside & outside of the work zone.


That would be good for the guys by themselves spraying exteriors too


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

*Christmas Light Timers*



journeymanPainter said:


> That would be good for the guys by themselves spraying exteriors too


I use em for all kinds of applications. Work lights are another. Nice to be able to get out the door before having to shut off work lights, jobsite radio so when you get a phone call you don't have to run to turn radio down, blender so my margarita is ready exactly at 5:01, the list goes on.


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

TJ Landry said:


> hey Guys, Im sort of new to the site and I notice a distinct lack of Tub and Tile painting discussion on the site. I came by a couple years ago and there might have been one or two threads but that's about it.
> 
> I'm out of RI and in the state there might be 4-5 guys doing this kind of work. In nearby MA. that number is about double. I'm a bit surprised because it's an area that has some great growth potential without a lot of overhead and very little need for large crews. Matter of fact I\ve been doing well on my own for almost 6 months.
> 
> ...


could you & driftweed share some pic? both before, during & after plus equipment ... asking a lot i know 

read many of driftwood post and know he's really into quality work just not something i wanted to get involved with but would love to see the system 

and your 100% right about painting , the money is in specializing 
anyone ( and everyone ) can paint a room & cheap HO will paint the outside with the #1 selling paint behr 

we'll still a full service painting company but kitchen cabinet painting is our big thing


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

Callbathdoctor.com for pics


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## TJ Landry (Aug 3, 2010)

Boco said:


> I like your prices. I do some tubs and showers now and then. Right now I am working on a fiberglass hot tub and shower. I have had a lot of success using Klass kote. Do you have any tips for prep? I always wanted to try some type of electric buffer or something but always end up prepping by hand.


Boco, I have a cheap orbital sander from Harbor Freight using 80 grit pads. After you've razor scraped what you can, finish up with the sander. It seems to do the trick.


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

Acetone. No matter what you use to initially clean, do a final clean with acetone. Once dry, rub your bare hand over every inch of the tub. Slick spot, clean again. But do this slowly with your eyes closed.

It may look good, but the truth comes out when you close your eyes.

Also look at your fully prepped tub at all angles with an led flashlight.


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## TJ Landry (Aug 3, 2010)

Repaint Florida said:


> could you & driftweed share some pic? both before, during & after plus equipment ... asking a lot i know
> 
> read many of driftwood post and know he's really into quality work just not something i wanted to get involved with but would love to see the system
> 
> ...


I'd post pics but they look exactly like every other Before After photos on Google Images for Tub and Tile refinishing. But heres a couple

https://imgur.com/a/tswne

(FYI, the "old" is the pink tile)

As far as systems go, I just threw in and bought what Top-Kote had to offer in terms of sprayers, cleaners and finish products. I've worked with other products but theirs seems to be the simplest and hence, most profitable of all the manufacturers Ive checked out.

Cabinet painting sounds like a good specialty. new and even re-faced cabinets run into a few thousand so if you can convince a customer that your system will give them a great look at a budget price then you'll be in a great position. House flippers, income property folks, elderly etc all want to save as much as possible so those will be your main customers.


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## TJ Landry (Aug 3, 2010)

driftweed said:


> Acetone. No matter what you use to initially clean, do a final clean with acetone. Once dry, rub your bare hand over every inch of the tub. Slick spot, clean again. But do this slowly with your eyes closed.
> 
> It may look good, but the truth comes out when you close your eyes.
> 
> Also look at your fully prepped tub at all angles with an led flashlight.


re; Acetone, absolutely. It picks up what you may have missed with the cleaning.


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## Boco (May 18, 2013)

TJ Landry said:


> Boco, I have a cheap orbital sander from Harbor Freight using 80 grit pads. After you've razor scraped what you can, finish up with the sander. It seems to do the trick.


 I am looking at picking up a small air sander. I always go by feel. I also am looking in to top coat. I need a bright yellow (canary). Do you need to prime fiberglass? Normally I would just prime but I am already 4k over on a 20k budget. Its a flipper.


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

Not with topkote. Crosslink is the "primer". I tell customers it's the equivalent of vaporized super glue.


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## TJ Landry (Aug 3, 2010)

driftweed said:


> Not with topkote. Crosslink is the "primer". I tell customers it's the equivalent of vaporized super glue.


HAH! Good one Drifty! Very apt description.

They stand behind the Crosslink III (clear primer) 100% but I guess so many hard-heads insist on old school etching they've come out with a paste acid etcher that can be reused.

To be honest I've never had an incident where a job failed due to the Crosslink. The stuff works. :thumbsup:

It actually works so well that "Miracle Method" have come up with their own version of clear adhesive primer as well (of course they still charge an obscene amount of dinero for their services ).


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

Do you mask your floors? I find it easier to just mop the floor up with acetone. 

I only mask tile floors now. If it's vinyl, it gets mopped.

Of course I get 5 gal acetone for $70 so that's a financially viable route.


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## Gracobucks (May 29, 2011)

driftweed said:


> Do you mask your floors? I find it easier to just mop the floor up with acetone.
> 
> I only mask tile floors now. If it's vinyl, it gets mopped.
> 
> Of course I get 5 gal acetone for $70 so that's a financially viable route.


Really? No masking of the floor at all?


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

Hardwoods and tile yes, because acetone WILL damage the finish. But anything vinyl is easier to clean up than mask.


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## TJ Landry (Aug 3, 2010)

driftweed said:


> Do you mask your floors? I find it easier to just mop the floor up with acetone.
> 
> I only mask tile floors now. If it's vinyl, it gets mopped.
> 
> Of course I get 5 gal acetone for $70 so that's a financially viable route.


Yeah, I generally mask all floors. Full bathroom jobs I'll cover completely with Rosin paper. Tub Tub/surround Ill use a drop cloth with green masking paper taped at the edge of the tub area.

Ill definitely give that a shot when I do a vinyl floored bath next time.


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

Yeah, I mask every else too. One day the floor masking came up at the edge of the tub so I had no choice but to flood the floor and cleanup. That's when it clicked ya know. By using acetone for cleaning I saved myself a fair chunk of time and no one was the wiser.


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## TJ Landry (Aug 3, 2010)

Drift, do you use any of the additives Top Kote sells? ie : The fishe-eye reducer and/or the accelerator? If so, whats your opinion?


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

I up charge $50 for the 4 hour cure. If I am doing something like hotel rooms, it's very nice. Also if it's occupied and the only tub in the house.

Never had fisheye issues as I am extremely obsessive about prep.


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## TJ Landry (Aug 3, 2010)

I found over a period of time that the accelerator was affecting the finish for me. depending on the temp or time of year it would cause a lot of orange-peel type problems so I dropped it from my mix. When I did, the orange peel thing went away


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

I'll have to keep that in mind. Most of my clients are the larger xomplexes, so I am recording every 2 yrs it seems. 3 max. I don't know what my competitor is using, but at 3 years it's peeling bad.

What do you use to strip? I've found citristrip to be very effective for the money.


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## TJ Landry (Aug 3, 2010)

It depends on what the job calls for. If its a house flip where Im cutting the contractor a discount, Ill simply strip the problem areas with a standard off-the-shelf gel stripper and power sand to feather it down.

If it calls for a full strip Ill use "aircraft stripper" which, as you probably know, is about 3x as strong as the stuff you can buy from the hardware outlets (and a helluva lot more toxic as well). I dont really pay attention to brand names since they all work about the same.


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## TJ Landry (Aug 3, 2010)

Hey Drift, what do you use for ventilation? ie a windowed bathroom vs one without a window?


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

I just use the 8 inch exhaust fan with a chute, and open as many windows as possible


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## TJ Landry (Aug 3, 2010)

I forgot to ask, do you use their Cleaner or do you use your own method? I've found their cleaner does a great job of breaking down soap and fatty acids. Just curious if theres something else out there that is even better.


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## Ogb (Feb 14, 2016)

Can you do these without an HVLP rig? such as a 440i on low?


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

You only use about 18 ounces, so airless is a no go. 

You have to mix 3 different chemical for a batch: glaze, reducer, activator.

It's about $60 in chemicals (30 Oz Inc primer)...


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## Susan (Nov 29, 2011)

yes no i dont think so


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## DunriteNJ (Aug 15, 2014)

Do any of you Refinishers have issues with Grittiness or sandpaper like finish after spraying? 

Sometimes the gun picks up microscopic dust and transfers it on to the finish

Seems to happen in like 1-5 jobs


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

I like to put on progressively thicker coats, it takes care of that issue.


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## pvtgloss (May 25, 2015)

I'm about to order from E.A.H. Quite expensive.Anyone have experiance with their sharkthane line?


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## TJ Landry (Aug 3, 2010)

DunriteNJ said:


> Do any of you Refinishers have issues with Grittiness or sandpaper like finish after spraying?
> 
> Sometimes the gun picks up microscopic dust and transfers it on to the finish
> 
> Seems to happen in like 1-5 jobs


Yes, a little bit is unavoidable (for me anyway). The roughness will usually go away after a few cleanings which is what I tell the customer. If they want a perfectly smooth finish Ill buff it out with an electric buffer but I'll upcharge and extra $75 for the service. Buffing will also reduce the sheen somewhat.


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