# BM Ceiling Paint vs Muresco



## Tonyg (Dec 9, 2007)

Finally had the opportunity to try the BM Ceiling Paint with the Genex colorant. I have been using Muresco pretty exclusively and have been happy with it so I couldn't see spending 30% more for the latest and greatest BM marketing blitz with all the new products.

I have to say that I liked the BM Ceiling Paint better. I even popped a can of the Muresco and did a side by side comparison and found the the BM Ceiling Paint had much more viscosity, was better hiding, and was whiter. I'm not sure if it was just the way it looked, and without looking for the TDS, it seemed flatter. I don't think it flowed very well, and I don't like the price, but I think I will be changing my primary ceiling paint. The price was higher but did not put it over and I did not have to do two coats which saved on labor. I have attached a really bad pic from my phone but you can see the dark color that I was using it on.


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

Been wondering the same thing myself- just haven't done it yet. Much of the time I need to 2 coat due to repairs , so the muresco has been fine. But more customers want the fancy schmancy low or no voc thing.


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## tedrin (Oct 22, 2008)

I just used it for the first time on some vaulted ceilings...It covered well and it didn't drip on my face while rolling it...It has a beautiful flat finish..But my cost was $38/gallon...I'll stick with super-spec next time...


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## Rick the painter (Mar 30, 2009)

38.00gl for ceil paint i think is nuts tedrin.The Muresco is fine,i dont see the reason for gen-x.Also,poor flow can be murder on the shoulders and neck!


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## Mantis (Aug 4, 2008)

I wasnt going to comment in this thread since i've never used either product, but $38? Wow. Does it roll itself on? It's ceiling paint! I love CHB from sherwin for ceilings, I like it a lot more than superspec and its cheaper for me as well.


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## Tonyg (Dec 9, 2007)

My price for the BM Cieling is about 30, compared to the Murrsco at around 20, didn't make it prohibitive. 

Rick, it covered better and was whiter than Muresco. As far as flow, a heavier viscosity will make a difference.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

That was a good "review"!:thumbsup:


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I can see it for a color change, since Muresco's coverage is good, not great. I used to use WallSatin, tried SuperSpec, and have kind of settled on SuperHide flat on ceilings for now (for ceilings not going straight white). I can see using the new on significant color changes or for any real color on ceilings. CHB seems fine too, just smells funky. Real funky as in sweaty socks funky. The first time I walked by a room where CHB was being rolled, I thought the painter had a serious BO problem!


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## tedrin (Oct 22, 2008)

Tonyg said:


> Finally had the opportunity to try the BM Ceiling Paint with the Gennex colorant. I have been using Muresco pretty exclusively and have been happy with it so I couldn't see spending 30% more for the latest and greatest BM marketing blitz with all the new products.
> 
> I have to say that I liked the BM Ceiling Paint better. I even popped a can of the Muresco and did a side by side comparison and found the the BM Ceiling Paint had much more viscosity, was better hiding, and was whiter. I'm not sure if it was just the way it looked, and without looking for the TDS, it seemed flatter. I don't think it flowed very well, and I don't like the price, but I think I will be changing my primary ceiling paint. The price was higher but did not put it over and I did not have to do two coats which saved on labor. I have attached a really bad pic from my phone but you can see the dark color that I was using it on.


 
One more thing I'll add to this discussion...I bought this paint because it was going over a mid-taupe colour using the BM 0c64 (pure white) colour..I wanted to make damn sure of rolling only 2 coats on the vaulted ceiling...Surprisingly, it almost covered in one coat!...I then decided to save some bucks and top it off with a final coat of super spec flat...Was I disappointed!...The spec was a much darker GREY colour than the BM ceiling flat!!...AND THEY WERE SUPPOSEDLY THE SAME COLOUR!!

The BM pure white 0c-64 is actually a light grey colour!!...Why they would name it PURE-WHITE IS beyond me!!....Anyways I took the superspec back to the store and exchanged them (and paying $16/gallon MORE) for the BM flat ceiling.......Even the flat was a different colour than the eggshell in Moorestyle,but not as bad a difference as the spec....I painted the walls the same colour as the ceiling but in an eggshell.Because it is such a nice flat,the difference in colour is not that noticeable...(it was an actual colour difference,and had nothing to do with the different sheens)...BM really screwed up in their formulations for the same colour!!...That cost me a few hours of time,not to mention the added cost of the pricier BM ceiling flat!!...


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## FL.BM.DEALER (Apr 2, 2009)

Just to let you all know, if you are paying more than $30, you are getting ripped off. The BM Minimum Selling Price is $27.99 (MSP) This is what we get for it and it does extremely well in our market. You may want to ask your dealer why they have jacked up the price?


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

My price to contractors is $27.99, on the Waterborne ceiling paint. It's definitely better than the muresco and super spec. Especially ceilings where there is alot of direct sunlight, it will help avoid flashing. I cant see using it exclusively, but for those tricky ceilings, it can really save you.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

FL.BM.DEALER said:


> Just to let you all know, if you are paying more than $30, you are getting ripped off. The BM Minimum Selling Price is $27.99 (MSP) This is what we get for it and it does extremely well in our market. You may want to ask your dealer why they have jacked up the price?


 
He is correct, BUT....thats the MINIMUM selling price, we as dealers set our own price. I choose to sell at the minimum selling price to contractors. This minimum price holds true to all the Gennex products.

508 Ceiling paint $27.99
Aura interior $47.99 (all colors/finishes)
Aura exterior $49.99 (all colors/finishes)
Ben Flat $26.99
Ben Egg/semi $28.99


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## tedrin (Oct 22, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> He is correct, BUT....thats the MINIMUM selling price, we as dealers set our own price. I choose to sell at the minimum selling price to contractors. This minimum price holds true to all the Gennex products.
> 
> 508 Ceiling paint $27.99
> Aura interior $47.99 (all colors/finishes)
> ...


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## tedrin (Oct 22, 2008)

[color=lime]NCPaint1;87753]He is correct, BUT....thats the MINIMUM selling price, we as dealers set our own price


. I choose to sell at the minimum selling price to contractors. This minimum price holds true to all the Gennex products[/color[/color said:


> ].





. I choose to sell at the minimum selling price to contractors. This minimum price holds true to all the Gennex products[/color[/color said:


> Also,my BM dealer in Canada says that in the near future,all the dealers will be forced to sell all the lines of paint at the SAME PRICE....You can lose your dealership if you don't....I'm not sure if he is BS-ing me or if the 4-5 dealers in the city are colluding together to keep prices high..He said they don't want a "gas war" situation that will lower prices to contractors....
> 
> Festool does the same with their power tools..All the dealers have to sell at the same price.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Hmm...everyone selling at the same price is price fixing...and illegal. I think what he probably meant is that there is a minimum selling price. The prices I quoted are for the states. Im sure that the same will hold true for Canada, its a minimum SELLING price...not BM saying "this is the price you must all be at" So im sure that there will be stores selling above the minimum price.


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## tedrin (Oct 22, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> Hmm...everyone selling at the same price is price fixing...and illegal. I think what he probably meant is that there is a minimum selling price. The prices I quoted are for the states. Im sure that the same will hold true for Canada, its a minimum SELLING price...not BM saying "this is the price you must all be at" So im sure that there will be stores selling above the minimum price.


Yes obviously the minimum...Most contractors look for the lowest price.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

A minimum selling price should be considered "price fixing" also. I can see setting a minimum advertised price to eliminate degrading the product in the eyes of the consumer.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

tedrin said:


> Yes obviously the minimum...Most contractors look for the lowest price.


And you should be able to get it. Best advice, use the store that you like and treats you the best. Be honest and up front with them. Tell them that you like using a certain product, but you found it cheaper at another store, but its inconvenient to go there and you would rather give them the business. They should help you out.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

bikerboy said:


> A minimum selling price should be considered "price fixing" also. I can see setting a minimum advertised price to eliminate degrading the product in the eyes of the consumer.


But its not...If they said "everyone has to sell at X price" thats price fixing. Saying nobody can sell BELOW X price...is just fine ( because stores can sell above X price ). Stupid, but its all in the wording I suppose.


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## tedrin (Oct 22, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> And you should be able to get it. Best advice, use the store that you like and treats you the best. Be honest and up front with them. Tell them that you like using a certain product, but you found it cheaper at another store, but its inconvenient to go there and you would rather give them the business. They should help you out.


I have already done that...These owners won't budge on price...Nobody in my city will sell Aura eggshell for less than $58/gallon...It's basically the same story for every line...


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

We spend so much time badmouthing low baller painters,
yet we expect the lowest price from our vendors.
Unless the order is huge, who cares.
Some dealers here sell Natura at $45 some at $49. I will not ask them to lower their pricing, that would be silly. If they were selling it at $55, maybe.
I will buy it from where the service is great, the convenience is there
and where the colours would be perfect.
And then I would let them decide how to run their business
and concetrate on how to run mine.
The money for the paint comes from........................the customer!


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## tedrin (Oct 22, 2008)

George Z said:


> We spend so much time badmouthing low baller painters,
> yet we expect the lowest price from our vendors.
> Unless the order is huge, who cares.
> Some dealers here sell Natura at $45 some at $49. I will not ask them to lower their pricing, that would be silly. If they were selling it at $55, maybe.
> ...


Obviously you are too timid to haggle over prices...That is the way of the business world...More money in my pocket is nothing to be ashamed of....

Do you haggle over pricing when you buy a new car,boat computer or stereo?...Believe me saving $4-$5/gallon over the period of a year is going to add up...

And in this competitive world,you can't always pass on the cost to your customers...When the bids are fairly close,and the customer demands a specific product,the contractor with better paint prices is in a position to make more money...Yes there are other factors that you can plug into the equation to make more money including skill and production,but I'll take saving bucks on materials every day of the week...That's business 101.


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

Your materials are, or should be no more than 15% (for most jobs).
Saving $3-4 per gallon I think is ...anyway, you do the math.
Our job managers walk in the store, the store clerks are delighted to serve them. 
The service is amazing, the colours are perfect, not to mention some networking, the occasional lead and some favours you can't even imagine.
That is worth thousands and good business. Beating them on price, not so much and not our style at all.


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## tedrin (Oct 22, 2008)

George Z said:


> Your materials are, or should be no more than 15% (for most jobs).
> Saving $3-4 per gallon I think is ...anyway, you do the math.
> Our job managers walk in the store, the store clerks are delighted to serve them.
> The service is amazing, the colours are perfect, not to mention some networking, the occasional lead and some favours you can't even imagine.
> That is worth thousands and good business. Beating them on price, not so much and not our style at all.


 
Once the price is negotiated,I get the same benefits in terms of service as you do...I get the same referrals,the same smiling face in the morning...

The difference is,I negotiated a better deal and the savings end up in my pocket...Being a good salesman is a benefit to any business..There are never any hard feelings...Believe me,the store owners value my business...Most of the time I deal with sales reps who know the game,because they play it...I've known some for years and they go out of their way to keep my business...I make them a lot of money.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I gotta agree with George on this one. Do not complain about price shoppers if you are a price shopper as well.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Oh BM Canada, our minimum price is different. Maybe they are already at the minimum price in Canada, I dont know what their pricing is at. 

At least you know that nobody else is getting the products cheaper, so thats a plus I guess.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

Painters haggling over a few measly bucks for a gallon of paint are part of the problem. George is 100% right. Only sewer dwelling pits of ooze lowballers are concerned over price - you have to be - look at the typical husband and wife painting teams going around these days grossing their $22/man-hr company rate. Trying to pay for gas alone to make up their 80 mile one way commutes - because they can't even afford to live in the area they work, makes them pursue the cheapest of the cheap for paint products. 

Whatever I pay for paint - the customer is sure to pay for the markup on top of it. Some customers actually like a quality painter that uses expensive roller covers, for instance, that doesn't leave 'fuzz' all over their walls.


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## tedrin (Oct 22, 2008)

plainpainter said:


> Painters haggling over a few measly bucks for a gallon of paint are part of the problem. George is 100% right. Only sewer dwelling pits of ooze lowballers are concerned over price - you have to be - look at the typical husband and wife painting teams going around these days grossing their $22/man-hr company rate. Trying to pay for gas alone to make up their 80 mile one way commutes - because they can't even afford to live in the area they work, makes them pursue the cheapest of the cheap for paint products.
> 
> Whatever I pay for paint - the customer is sure to pay for the markup on top of it. Some customers actually like a quality painter that uses expensive roller covers, for instance, that doesn't leave 'fuzz' all over their walls.


[Shakes head]..What an assinine comment ...lol


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

Asinine???? You know what my best P&L dealer was making on a can of paint?

A whole 3 bucks! Whoop de F'ing doo. And guys like you that don't know how to charge a customer and consequently force the whole industry under the table are part of the problem. Even though this dealer was only making $3/can - he still had knumbnuts like you wanting to pay even less. Eventually he closed out the paint department in favor of flooring - now the only P&L dealer around is Ace Hardware - no service at all there.


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## PSP (Aug 13, 2009)

tedrin said:


> I just used it for the first time on some vaulted ceilings...It covered well and it didn't drip on my face while rolling it...It has a beautiful flat finish..But my cost was $38/gallon...I'll stick with super-spec next time...



$38/gallon is CRAZY. We sell it for 27.99 any color, to anyone. It upsets me when paint stores that sell Ben Moore overcharge. They get away with it because people think Ben Moore is supposed to be expensive. Bottom line is that customers need to check around to find the best pricing.


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## BMDealer (Jun 2, 2008)

The downside to this whole conversation is the end consumer. If they feel $38 was way to much for ceiling paint in the Moore line they may feel the whole line is expensive and shop other products next time around. We have the same problem out here. A close dealer to us jacks pricing up so the painter/DIY may think all Moore dealers prices are that way and not even consider giving us a call and staying away from the brand. 

By the way we sell all our GenX products at the minimum selling price as well....ben, ceiling, Aura, and Natura.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

So I guess there is no "going rate" for the paint stores either!
I don't haggle with my paint store, I get great service and discounts on the paint I use the most.


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## tedrin (Oct 22, 2008)

PSP said:


> $38/gallon is CRAZY. We sell it for 27.99 any color, to anyone. It upsets me when paint stores that sell Ben Moore overcharge. They get away with it because people think Ben Moore is supposed to be expensive. Bottom line is that customers need to check around to find the best pricing.


Again...I live in Canada...Different ballgame here.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

RCP said:


> So I guess there is no "going rate" for the paint stores either!
> I don't haggle with my paint store, I get great service and discounts on the paint I use the most.


Around here, most small Mom & Pops have one pricing structure for the HO and one for the Pro, and even another one for the Pro that does big VOLUME. The name of the game in retail is turning over product QUICKLY. When I did a bit of retail I despised the HO that tried to haggle us on price. I likewise despised the Pro that would try to haggle a better price, especially since we gave him interest free credit for at LEAST 30 days. 

The mark-up on paint was sickenly low, less than 33 percent for full retail. For every dollar the owner paid for paint, we took in less than 33 cents over that. But that's what the market deemed. The mark-up was less for the Pro's. So after paying overhead and salaries, you can imagine the actual profit on a gallon of paint was depressing. 

What I did love was the contractor who called in an order of 24 gal the day before the truck came. I'd add them to the order. They would be off loaded at 10 AM the next day and stayed on the dock. They were picked-up before the end of the day. That's how you make money in retail.


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## tedrin (Oct 22, 2008)

daArch said:


> Around here, most small Mom & Pops have one pricing structure for the HO and one for the Pro, and even another one for the Pro that does big VOLUME. The name of the game in retail is turning over product QUICKLY. When I did a bit of retail I despised the HO that tried to haggle us on price. I likewise despised the Pro that would try to haggle a better price, especially since we gave him interest free credit for at LEAST 30 days.
> 
> The mark-up on paint was sickenly low, less than 33 percent for full retail. For every dollar the owner paid for paint, we took in less than 33 cents over that. But that's what the market deemed. The mark-up was less for the Pro's. So after paying overhead and salaries, you can imagine the actual profit on a gallon of paint was depressing.
> 
> What I did love was the contractor who called in an order of 24 gal the day before the truck came. I'd add them to the order. They would be off loaded at 10 AM the next day and stayed on the dock. They were picked-up before the end of the day. That's how you make money in retail.


 
I live in a big city..There are a bunch of very large paint store chains with multiple stores across the country...They make money on volume..I usually haggle with their sales reps who are very willing to give you the best possible price...Ya it's a different story with paint stores owned by a single owner...I guess that's why Benjamin Moore basically has a standardized selling point for contractors...It is pointless trying to get a better price with that company.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

tedrin said:


> I guess that's why Benjamin Moore basically has a standardized selling point for contractors...It is pointless trying to get a better price with that company.



Ah, now I think I am understanding your displayed feeling towards B.M.

You should have been around in the 70's and 80's when their latexes were pure crap and HO's would spec them. 

And I NEVER thought sani-flat was worth the pot it came in. 

At least now, BM is making better product. I still have a grudge against them too, but I hear good things from many folks.


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