# oil vs water primer



## wncpainter (Aug 7, 2010)

Trying to make the switch over to water based materials and am facing a repaint with a bit of smoke stain, probably some old oil enamals , and peeling. Looking to sand and seal as best I can and top coat with a laytex high gloss, all over multiple coats of painted bead board.. Can I seal this with latex primer and feel as confidant as when using an oil base? Generally using the Kills products.. can someone convice me to use the Oil.... on a related side, they put some "new" cabinets in and some mildew that needs washing before priming. any product favorites besides TSP. cheers


----------



## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

wncpainter said:


> Trying to make the switch over to water based materials and am facing a repaint with a bit of smoke stain, probably some old oil enamals , and peeling. Looking to sand and seal as best I can and top coat with a laytex high gloss, all over multiple coats of painted bead board.. Can I seal this with latex primer and feel as confidant as when using an oil base? Generally using the Kills products.. can someone convice me to use the Oil.... on a related side, they put some "new" cabinets in and some mildew that needs washing before priming. any product favorites besides TSP. cheers


 

kilz is the worse primer out there, good for nothing junk........if it were me id use Cover Stain... i tried latex primer over oil trim before and it slipped right off so never again, all oil till they make it illagal.......... now im sure they have some type of special latex that will hold on oil but i dont mess with crazy new products, i stick to what works for me and keep it simple


----------



## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

kilz is a primer thats marketed towards homeowners..........HO'ers need a simple answer to a complex question and Kilz does that well. the one stop shop for HO'ers. mr jack of all master of none !! Kilz, #1 in brand recognition and thats the problem


homeowner:


1- what do i use to prime bare wood? kilz
2- how do you prime crayon? kilz
3- water damage? kilz
4- pen marks on the wall? kilz



and so on!~ now take these 4 questions and answer them with what really works best then try to explain that to a HO'er..... lol easier just to say Kilz it all


----------



## wncpainter (Aug 7, 2010)

actually I ususally used Zinssers cover oil stain in the past and worked well, but have been looking into the killz water.. Kilz leads the market cause of there exposure in the big box, but does that mean its all garbage?? i've used it a few times without problems before


----------



## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

im sure it works sometimes for some stuff but in general it doesnt work and not worth the time using it when you paint for a living...........last thing you need is like 5-6 different primers in your shop.......... to me cover stain meets about 90% of my primer needs


----------



## ltd (Nov 18, 2010)

stick with cover stain . a few months ago i was on a big job whole house painting wood 6 panel doors that had old yellowed oil alkyd base semi on them .on the inside of linen closet i brushed gripper primer and pro block primer on 2 panels .top coated with super paint after 2 weeks put the old thumb nail to it and it didn't grip to my liking .I'm on another big whole house wood 6 panel doors lead paint covered by non lead oil semi gloss .i only washed did not scuff and primed with cover stain, top with pro classic water alkyd and had plenty of grip. thats my story and im sticking to it


----------



## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

wnc,

First, believe not what ole34 has said. Kilz is good for some things, it's not as suitable for as many situations as Masterchem would like us to believe, but it is NOT only a HO can o crap. Kilz II even has its uses - although I haven't discovered them yet 

As what's best to use in your situation, your description was a little confusing for complete understanding. 

In general, the newer 100% acrylics do have great bonding properties over a myriad surfaces (with proper prep). If you want to go waterborne, there are many products now on the market that will suit your needs. 

As to the mildew issue, chlorine bleach is a time tested mildew killer. If you use TSP with the bleach, make sure you rinse thoroughly.

I did read somewhere that bleach, because one dilutes it with water, may not be the ideal mildew solution. The writer of that article said that alcohol was far superior. I've tried alcohol on small areas and it is very effective.


----------



## HeadHoncho (Apr 17, 2007)

Oil primer all the way on stained areas, shellac is good too!


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Would be tempted to put Zinsser ODORLESS over it. Its oil and smells less. Good build, high hide. Sands to a powder easily.



But if you prefer there are these options too

Zinsser BONDZ
Zinsser SmartPrime
Zinsser 1-2-3 Plus
Zinsser BIN2 (best alternative to BIN)


----------



## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Just remember with Zinsser Odorless, it is actual an acrylic resin, not alkyd. So, if you think you need an alkyd resin, try something else.


----------



## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Does any one know if smartprime is a big box store only line (that is what I was told).


----------



## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

DeanV said:


> Does any one know if smartprime is a big box store only line (that is what I was told).


 I've got it in my local store here in NY. It's a local chain with about a dozen small stores. In fact they gave me a few gallons when they first got it in.


----------



## Gotdibz (Sep 30, 2010)

I used the zinsser oderless on some staircase risers, It did its job. At the same time I feel like it made me work harder by sanding like crazy, I think it powders to much and its not as workable as other primers. Maybe it works better if you spray it.


----------



## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I remember reading on CT before there was a PT that some people had huge failures with Odorless when they used it as a substitute for Coverstain when priming wall after wallpaper removal. I think it re-wet really bad and led to a lot of peeling if I recall correctly.


----------



## cardwizzard (Sep 13, 2010)

Go with the oil. Only asking for problems if you go with water based. Any way, why are you trying to swap over to water based? The theory doesn't make sense to me.


----------



## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Ole34... used Kilz waterborne this week for the first time on NC cabinetry. Sands nice, didnt raise the grain. Its ok to hate the box store, its also ok to love 13 dollars a gallon. 

Nice to see someone get all fired up like Mitch used too....


----------



## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

BTW, oil over stains is always a sure shot. I would not err from this logic until someone beats me with a 2x4 and shows me a better way. Oil film seals, waterbornes penetrate....


----------



## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

mildew on exteriors is nasty prevelant here. Pump up sprayer of diluted bleach does wonders. If the mildew is that prevelent in the inside, whats a little water gonna hurt? Id clean surfaces after for bonding though...


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

DeanV said:


> I remember reading on CT before there was a PT that some people had huge failures with Odorless when they used it as a substitute for Coverstain when priming wall after wallpaper removal. I think it re-wet really bad and led to a lot of peeling if I recall correctly.


Yeah I imagine. Its says not to use it over glue.


----------



## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

It would not surprise me if that was added to the instructions after that debacle.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

DeanV said:


> It would not surprise me if that was added to the instructions after that debacle.


Oh. I never saw that thread. hmm that just reminded me of SW odorless failed bad over a strip job. A SW rep told us to use it. It was actually a clean job too. If there was glue we couldnt see it or feel it. Thanks for posting about that.


----------



## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

Doesn't anyone wash walls after wallpaper removal?


----------



## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Of course Plain, but I used to primed with converstain to be safe and now use gardz. Especially since many was walls were not prepped correctly.


----------



## wncpainter (Aug 7, 2010)

I did the whole schebang with cover stain cause i can be confindant in its result.. maybe I'll make the switch one day.. thanks for the feedback PT,, thats why this site is great, a dynamic flow of feedback


----------



## Gotdibz (Sep 30, 2010)

what primer would you use.

For Interior, plaster walls, with lead paint?

lead paint present on previous layers of paint , lots of patching and repairing cracks and even skim coating.

Oil or acrylic primer?


----------



## paratrooper (Mar 6, 2009)

SW makes a great water based adhesion primer. A little more expensive, but I've had good luck with using it over oil paint on walls.


----------



## A+HomeWork (Dec 10, 2010)

jack pauhl said:


> Would be tempted to put Zinsser ODORLESS over it. Its oil and smells less. Good build, high hide. Sands to a powder easily.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So when the can says, "Can be used over and under oil or latex paints" , it's as good as the oil primers?

I used Kilz premium on a few jobs and didn't like how it felt tacky, if you touched it for more than just a few seconds, even hours or days later.


----------



## michaelsaam (Jan 18, 2011)

Always go oil for smoke damage. Someone else quote about kilz primer, Kilz to me has went down hill. The used to have the selection, oil, latex, water base. Now it is oil and water base. Water is garbage. We use primer all the time and even though you have to clean out a brush with desiel or paint thinner your better off in the long run. Best advice be clean about it using drop cloths or just being careful and oil fixes everything. There are many products better than kilz too. Kilz is trash. Zinesser is an awesome primer but many better brands. I do like using latex if it is a worth latex primer using just cause i can clean the brush quick but i always have oil on the truck. www.mikespaintingonline.com


----------

