# Stain Prep Question



## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

I know this is going to sound like a real "newbie" question, but I have mainly done interior and paint on exteriors. Bidding on an exterior stain job. Semi-transparent on it now, and putting a solid on it--both acrylic. Do I have to sand before putting the new stain on?


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

We don't have siding here, but is that grey because of the weather/elements? 

If it's a solid stain your putting on it, I would just wash it down. Sanding is obviously the good thing to do, but I've put solid stain on cedar fencing with just a good power wash (clean off dirt). It came out looking fine and no peeling. 

But that's my experience with it. 

Let us know what you ended up deciding to do.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

I've done lots of these. Scuff sand everything, remove all flaking material, dust and you're ready to go.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

woodcoyote said:


> We don't have siding here, but is that grey because of the weather/elements?
> 
> If it's a solid stain your putting on it, I would just wash it down.


The HO has already started staining. She did not even clean the area that she was staining, so I think that I could go without sanding and she would not care. The stain on there is pretty old, and is not repelling water anymore, so I think that I could get away without sanding, but want to do it right.


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

For a solid (eeesh) I wouldn't sand. Pressure wash it after a strong bleach mix and you'll be good to go.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

Here is a better picture of the condition of the clapboards.


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## Boco (May 18, 2013)

I think all you really need to do is a good pressure wash. Key here for me would be to use woodscapes and spray a good backbrush. Sanding is for giving tooth or grip. Thats not really all that smooth and with a good wash its going to be like a new surface. Spray it on , work it in. Power sand all the painted surfaces though.:thumbup:


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

I good PW with a wood cleaner or bleach is all you need to do. Use a wire brush not a power sander on this siding.

It's up to you, myself I would use a Solid Stain Primer tinted then your top coat of solid. That wood looks like it's dry it's going to suck in that stain.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

cdpainting said:


> I good PW with a wood cleaner or bleach is all you need to do. Use a wire brush not a power sander on this siding.
> 
> It's up to you, myself I would use a Solid Stain Primer tinted then your top coat of solid. That wood looks like it's dry it's going to suck in that stain.



I spoke with my BM rep, since solid stains are not something that I have a lot of experience, and he assured me that the primer would not be needed for adhesion and only to block tannins. So, I am giving the HO that option.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

cdpainting said:


> I good PW with a wood cleaner or bleach is all you need to do. Use a wire brush not a power sander on this siding.
> 
> It's up to you, myself I would use a Solid Stain Primer tinted then your top coat of solid. That wood looks like it's dry it's going to suck in that stain.


If you used tinted primer, would you put on one or two coats of stain. Does solid stain work the same was as paint--two coats better than one.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

I'm not challenging your suggestion CD Painting, (especially since Gough already thanked you), but what would be the advantage to first applying a primer if he's planning on applying 2 coats of solid stain? 

In his situation, I've always just washed, (only sanded if previous coating wasn't in-tact or if it needed to be de-glossed), then spray & back-brush the stain. 

If a primer is really a necessity in this process, I'd certainly like to know.


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

I used to be an advocate of an oil primer underneath a solid latex stain. You get some penetration and stability with the undercoat. I think just about all the solid stain manufacturers recommend against a primer since the coating is designed to allow a certain amount of wood breathing and moisture transmission. I don't use primers anymore and have not had any issues on the few jobs that demanded a solid. I give it my all to recommend people do not ever put on a solid if there is not already one on there. Probably better to just prime and paint.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> I'm not challenging your suggestion CD Painting, (especially since Gough already thanked you), but what would be the advantage to first applying a primer if he's planning on applying 2 coats of solid stain?
> 
> In his situation, I've always just washed, (only sanded if previous coating wasn't in-tact or if it needed to be de-glossed), then spray & back-brush the stain.
> 
> If a primer is really a necessity in this process, I'd certainly like to know.


We used a primer when we've been applying s/c stains over either heavily- weathered or tannin-rich woods. That's been in line with most of the TDS's that I've seen.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

PressurePros said:


> Probably better to just prime and paint.



I could never understand the difference between a solid stain and paint---but like I noted I have little experience with stain. But, recently I was reading the main difference between a paint and a stain is that the stain allows the wood to breath a bit, and thus less peeling. Whether or not there is any truth to this I do not know.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

Pete the Painter said:


> I spoke with my BM rep, since solid stains are not something that I have a lot of experience, and he assured me that the primer would not be needed for adhesion and only to block tannins. So, I am giving the HO that option.


The only SW Rep I ever completely trusted gave me sound advice years ago about using Woodscapes Solid-Color Water-Based Stain...that tannin are sealed between the 1st & 2nd coat AS LONG AS the 1st coat has dried completely before applying the second. 

I've always followed that advice by spraying & back-brushing 1st coat, then spraying a 2nd coat after the 1st is dry. No tannin issues with Cedar, Redwood, etc.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

Pete the Painter said:


> I could never understand the difference between a solid stain and paint---but like I noted I have little experience with stain. But, recently I was reading the main difference between a paint and a stain is that the stain allows the wood to breath a bit, and thus less peeling. Whether or not there is any truth to this I do not know.


Stains do allow the wood to breath, and usually don't flake/peel. Solid stains are the same except for the flaking/peeling. If the HO wants solid stain give it to them, but personally I would recommend a quality paint. Stain will only last a few years (with really good prep and application) while paint will last longer with less. 

With a good pressure wash, a good alkyd primer, and a quality paint that house won't need another paint job for 5+ years just needing little maintenance.

Sent from my SGH-T989D using Tapatalk


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

journeymanPainter said:


> Stains do allow the wood to breath, and usually don't flake/peel. Solid stains are the same except for the flaking/peeling. If the HO wants solid stain give it to them, but personally I would recommend a quality paint. Stain will only last a few years (with really good prep and application) while paint will last longer with less.
> 
> With a good pressure wash, a good alkyd primer, and a quality paint that house won't need another paint job for 5+ years just needing little maintenance.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T989D using Tapatalk


We rarely see peeling/flaking with acrylic sold color stains around here. With that weathered cedar siding, I think paint would have more problems with peeling. 

We typically get more like 5-8 years with solid-color stains, and the main issue by that time is fading. With the change from UTC's to acrylic tints like Gennex, I think we'll see even longer cycles.

The trade off that we see is slightly shorter lifespan/substantially lower prep with s/c stains and longer lifespan/potentially much more prep with paint.

That's been our experience in the Intermountain West, YMMV.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

Gough said:


> We rarely see peeling/flaking with acrylic sold color stains around here. With that weathered cedar siding, I think paint would have more problems with peeling.
> 
> We typically get more like 5-8 years with solid-color stains, and the main issue by that time is fading. With the change from UTC's to acrylic tints like Gennex, I think we'll see even longer cycles.
> 
> ...


Intermountain West, YMMV?

Never heard of it. 

The reason I say that about solid stains is because that's what's occurring in my townhouse complex. Fence was painted 2 years ago, peeling, I painted my fence last summer (east view) and is starting to peel in places

Sent from my SGH-T989D using Tapatalk


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

journeymanPainter said:


> Intermountain West, YMMV?
> 
> Never heard of it.
> 
> ...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermountain_West

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ymmv&defid=1869327

Isn't that a fairly small sample size?

I can see those results on a fence, with that exposure to the weather. We avoid film-forming products on wood fences whenever possible. Painting them generally means lots of repeat business, but not the kind of repeat business that we like.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Gough said:


> We rarely see peeling/flaking with acrylic sold color stains around here. With that weathered cedar siding, I think paint would have more problems with peeling.
> 
> We typically get more like 5-8 years with solid-color stains, and the main issue by that time is fading. With the change from UTC's to acrylic tints like Gennex, I think we'll see even longer cycles.
> 
> ...


That's been my experience here in the deep South, also. And for whatever reason, the s/c stains have less tendency to mildew.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

slinger58 said:


> That's been my experience here in the deep South, also. And for whatever reason, the s/c stains have less tendency to mildew.



I think its because solid stain wears off to an extent. It's almost a self cleaning coat.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> I'm not challenging your suggestion CD Painting, (especially since Gough already thanked you), but what would be the advantage to first applying a primer if he's planning on applying 2 coats of solid stain?
> 
> In his situation, I've always just washed, (only sanded if previous coating wasn't in-tact or if it needed to be de-glossed), then spray & back-brush the stain.
> 
> If a primer is really a necessity in this process, I'd certainly like to know.


I'm not saying he has to prime first, it's an option. There may be some bleeding also that siding looks very very dry. At least with a solid stain primer it wont suck in the first coat of stain which could lead to a 3rd or 4th coat.

I don't prime all the siding we do with solids we only do if they are in bad enough shape like in the pictures.


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## Slopmeyer (Aug 2, 2009)

Pete, myself I like the idea of a primer. Increased longevity and a good base for the stain.
I give it to them as an option and a upsell although most just go with the solid stain. 

The two coated solid will be fine brushed in really well.


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