# Prepping corner between ceiling and wall for cutting in on repaint



## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

Hey all, I thought I would ask what some here might think is a dumb question for a professional painter (as some of my posts have been) that makes me fear of being referred by an administrator to the DIY forum. It has to do with how to approach a certain aspect of prep work and what tools to use. Over the years (I am almost 67) I have done bunches of jobs where I have to make something ugly either look good or just disappear so that anyone who was not familiar with the problem area or areas would walk through and not notice that there was ever any problem. I have done a bunch of work thru realtors where sellers need to get rid of ugly looking problems and have mostly had success in making them disappear.

As I have mentioned here a number of times, I do painting for a GC at Marina Towers in Chicago. I also do some work for people the GC recommended me to. The Marina Towers were built in the mid 1960s. Most of the original ceilings and walls have a heavy orange peel texture that makes it difficult to cut in the ceiling and walls on a repaint.

My recently departed painting partner said that he used to run a bead of caulk along this corner to smooth it out for cutting in. I am trying to bid on a repaint in one of these condos where the texture along the ceiling/wall corner looks like a small mountain range that currently is badly cut in - due to the mountain range covering a smooth corner. 

The condo has furniture that can be pulled away from the walls. The client wants the walls painted 2 coats from a burgundy red to a gray. She has the ceiling paint, so I can cut the ceiling in after prepping and caulking the corner, then cut in the walls with the wall paint.

My question is, what tools and method do I use to smooth the mountain range down between the ceiling and wall so that a relatively smooth bead of caulk can be fingered so as to allow me to cut a very straight and clean edge that looks good to the eye? Here are 2 photos of what it looks like now:














If you enlarge these photos you will see the mountains and crevasses between the ceiling and the walls. I have all kinds of tools an sech, but I was wondering how any here would approach this to make it look good.

footyos


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Okay, seriously now, we live in the land of textures and cutting in between the ceiling and walls in less than ideal situations is extremely common. Sometimes we get lucky and the drywall guy had put in a very slight groove between the two and that always helped immensely. But typically, due to lots of practice, I was generally able to create a pretty decent line even if there was no groove. But in cases where the line between the two was especially irregular, I would take a putty knife and carefully create my own line - being careful not to cut through any tape or paper.
Now, the following is painting 101 when you deal constantly with textures, and you smooth walls/ ceilings guys may not have to fudge very often, but IF, and that’s a big IF, a decent line is just not possible, stray ever so very slightly onto the ceiling with the wall color rather than have the lighter (usually) ceiling color come down on the wall. As your pics show, when that has been done you can really see it - often from clear across the room. But, if a _slight_ amount of the wall color strays onto the ceiling, it can usually only be seen if directly below it and looking up. Hope that all makes sense.


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## kmp (Jan 30, 2011)

That is what I do as well, a little wall paint on the ceiling is better than the reverse. After all it is only the illusion of a straight line that we can do at wall ceiling lines. You can drive yourself crazy trying to get perfect lines since there is no such thing as a perfect corner.


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

As another option if you're still having trouble free handing, you could always use some tape on the ceiling and seal it with the ceiling paint or some caulking. I normally only do this on vertical color transitions, but sometimes on really thick knockdown I'll do it instead of hand cutting.

Just make sure there's a gap of 1/8" or so (depending on how thick the texture is) between the tape edge and where the wall meets the ceiling, so the paint doesn't pull up when you peel the tape.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Dig out with 5 in one , caulk. Better yet, talk them into installing some crown mouldings. I find that solves alot of that issue.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Once went way out into the coast range to bid an interior job. The owners had painted it themselves the last time and they had brought the white ceiling color down the wall about a half inch all the way around the entire room in every room in the house. They had a fairly heavy texture on their walls so needless to say it looked like 💩. They wanted me to replicate the look but do “a better job” than they had when they’d done it. I attempted to politely dissuade them from a repeat but they refused to budge so I declined the job.

Vaulted ceilings can also be fun when the drywall guy has done a lousy job creating a straight seam at the wall and angled ceiling joint. I was once doing a job (still referred to in our home as the “job from hell“) where the walls and ceilings were all the same color and the HO wanted the ceilings white. That’s a common request but in this case the seam was all over the place and there was no real way to fudge it in order to make it look straight. Tried to explain it to him but he was adamant about having it done - so I did it. Sure enough, it looked pretty bad since in order to have it look straight the color line was sometimes up on the ceiling a bit or sometimes down on the wall. He bitched and bitched about it insisting I “fix” it but all I could do was explain that the fix would involve having the seam redone by a drywall guy ( and this was a big room with high ceilings so the time involved in doing that would have been significant - with the possibility that the repair would be more noticeable than the original crappy job) or go back to all one color. Finally he relented and the ceiling was redone in the new wall color and once again the crooked seam was hard to see - except that now because he_ knew_ it was there he continuously bitched about how much it bugged him - despite having lived in the home since it was new. 

Turned out that was just one of many “issues” this guy and his house had. Eventually the atmosphere on that job got so toxic (while I was working there he fired two plumbers, one tile guy, had the brand new carpet in two bedrooms ripped out and redone by the flooring outfit, and almost got in a fist fight with the dry wall guy who was there making some repairs ) that I told him he was going to have to find another painter to finish the house. It was the first, and only, job I EVER did that on. To this day if you mention this guy’s name to anyone in this area that’s in the trades, you will get an eye roll, a shake of the head, and a string of choice words.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

RH said:


> Once went way out into the coast range to bid an interior job. The owners had painted it themselves the last time and they had brought the white ceiling color down the wall about a half inch all the way around the entire room in every room in the house. They had a fairly heavy texture on their walls so needless to say it looked like 💩. They wanted me to replicate the look but do “a better job” than they had when they’d done it. I attempted to politely dissuade them from a repeat but they refused to budge so I declined the job.
> 
> I have seen paint jobs where the ceiling paint was brought down 1/4 - 1/2 inch onto the wall and looked quite good. I was told that this is a European method of maintaining a straight line. Obviously one has to start with a relatively flat surface to be able to tape this line.
> 
> ...


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

At least the job in your pics looks well done. The one I went and looked at wasn’t.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

RH said:


> At least the job in your pics looks well done. The one I went and looked at wasn’t.


I did not do them. We were there looking at some repair work in the bathroom and I took some photos of this technique out of curiosity. Most ceilings and walls in the Chicago area (at least where I have been) are mostly flat surfaces with not much texture, so taping off areas works if done carefully.

Now that I think about it, how would you like to do a repaint on a place like this where just the color is changed and you have to match these straight lines?

futtyos


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

Without hearing more from all about tools or techniques to employ removing the miniature mountain ranges in these corners in my OP, I am of a mind to give my Dremel Multi-Tool a shot using the big half-round blade that can cut both wood and drywall. I am thinking of first using the blade flush against the wall and cutting up into the ceiling. If the material is just the right hardness I might be able to saw off the critters on the wall while also putting a slight groove into the ceiling which would allow me to cut the wall in with ease. I have only experienced this once before at a condo in Marina Towers. Instead of the "perfect" corner my GC friend always thinks he skim coats into existence on every job he skim coats (Most of the units here have heavy orange peel texture that most of his clients want skim coated away to leave a very flat surface) and which I, in getting inches away from while cutting in and finding out he is WRONG, I came across a section of corner that had a groove going up from the wall into the ceiling about 1/16" deep. As I cut that section in, and after looking at the finished product both from on the ladder and on the ground, I thought to myself that this is the way to prep corners for cutting in.

Did Jack Pauhl ever discuss this? :O

I am sorry to bother you all about this small detail, but the ceilings are a tad bit lower than most ceilings and the rooms smaller than most and you can easily see imperfections from not far away in many places.

I have the feeling that I just have to guess how long it will take me to get clean corners, charge accordingly, then find out what tools are best to use to get this done the best and quickest way - then smile if I come out making money or smile because I now know what to do to be able to cut clean and straight lines so I will know what to offer and charge the next client I give a proposal to........................................................................................

Help! I've fallen and can't reach my Gardz!

fut


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## propainterJ (Jan 31, 2011)

I use my screwdriver to score a channel,right in the corner,then paint into that channel

I use the slotted side


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

futtyos said:


> Without hearing more from all about tools or techniques to employ removing the miniature mountain ranges in these corners in my OP, I am of a mind to give my Dremel Multi-Tool a shot using the big half-round blade that can cut both wood and drywall. I am thinking of first using the blade flush against the wall and cutting up into the ceiling. If the material is just the right hardness I might be able to saw off the critters on the wall while also putting a slight groove into the ceiling which would allow me to cut the wall in with ease. I have only experienced this once before at a condo in Marina Towers. Instead of the "perfect" corner my GC friend always thinks he skim coats into existence on every job he skim coats (Most of the units here have heavy orange peel texture that most of his clients want skim coated away to leave a very flat surface) and which I, in getting inches away from while cutting in and finding out he is WRONG, I came across a section of corner that had a groove going up from the wall into the ceiling about 1/16" deep. As I cut that section in, and after looking at the finished product both from on the ladder and on the ground, I thought to myself that this is the way to prep corners for cutting in.
> 
> Did Jack Pauhl ever discuss this? :O
> 
> ...


Another way I used to create a nicer seam was to take a piece of sand paper (start with 120), fold it into a V and run the folded edge along the area between the ceiling and the wall, holding it at a 45 degree angle so as to not be sanding the surface of the ceiling or wall - only the line between. A few passes back and forth will remove most of what you want to take off and if not, a few more should suffice. The idea is to create a slight channel to paint to. The nice thing about this process is you have a bit more control about how much you are removing and you have less of a chance of breaking through the seam paper or tape like you would with a tool of some sorts. plus it goes pretty fast.
I will just say that you shouldn’t get too sucked in and end up overthinking this (says the guy who has posted three times about it). As painters we often are our own worst critics and as such we want to do something like this so it looks perfect. But having had to do quite a bit of improving textured seams I know that if the worst of the boogers are removed, you will achieve a very satisfactory look (far better than what was there before). And if it’s not perfect, it’s likely that you will be the only person to even notice.


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## Knobbe (Mar 14, 2021)

I vote for the folded sandpaper idea. I've never done it but will try that next time. I have caulked a small bead and fingered it smooth and that worked pretty well.


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## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

Nothing new to add, really. I've generally done the scrape-out with something having a sharp-ish, squared off edge (as in on a 5-in-1 or putty knife) at approx. 45 angle, followed by a quick run-down with the sand paper. For that I generally like the angled sanding sponge, just because you can poke the point of the angle into the corner and run with it. Depending on how that went, following with a bead of caulk can sometimes help even things out. But in the end, those rough surfaces just make for bumps. There are limits to the illusions that we can pull off.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

1/4 round.? 😅. But seriously, I know it's not always in the budget, but I really like up selling people on crown molding. Once you learn how to install it, can be a very profitable upsell and fix alot of those issues. Especially those houses where it has actually split the tape between the wall and ceiling. I know it's a little outside the "painting" box. But realistically not so far fetched. It should be in our wheel house, especially on repaint/reno work..same with crappy old casings and baseboards. All you need is a 10" miter saw, a nail gun and measuring tape.


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

Fry Reglet F Reveal

The reveals pictured on project I did weren’t by Reglet though, but make for nice clean lines and have become very trendy in modern designs vs a tape joint.


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## RobIannelli (Feb 18, 2021)

futtyos said:


> Hey all, I thought I would ask what some here might think is a dumb question for a professional painter (as some of my posts have been) that makes me fear of being referred by an administrator to the DIY forum. It has to do with how to approach a certain aspect of prep work and what tools to use. Over the years (I am almost 67) I have done bunches of jobs where I have to make something ugly either look good or just disappear so that anyone who was not familiar with the problem area or areas would walk through and not notice that there was ever any problem. I have done a bunch of work thru realtors where sellers need to get rid of ugly looking problems and have mostly had success in making them disappear.
> 
> As I have mentioned here a number of times, I do painting for a GC at Marina Towers in Chicago. I also do some work for people the GC recommended me to. The Marina Towers were built in the mid 1960s. Most of the original ceilings and walls have a heavy orange peel texture that makes it difficult to cut in the ceiling and walls on a repaint.
> 
> ...





futtyos said:


> Hey all, I thought I would ask what some here might think is a dumb question for a professional painter (as some of my posts have been) that makes me fear of being referred by an administrator to the DIY forum. It has to do with how to approach a certain aspect of prep work and what tools to use. Over the years (I am almost 67) I have done bunches of jobs where I have to make something ugly either look good or just disappear so that anyone who was not familiar with the problem area or areas would walk through and not notice that there was ever any problem. I have done a bunch of work thru realtors where sellers need to get rid of ugly looking problems and have mostly had success in making them disappear.
> 
> As I have mentioned here a number of times, I do painting for a GC at Marina Towers in Chicago. I also do some work for people the GC recommended me to. The Marina Towers were built in the mid 1960s. Most of the original ceilings and walls have a heavy orange peel texture that makes it difficult to cut in the ceiling and walls on a repaint.
> 
> ...


OK if your painting both ceiling and walls, Sand the crap out of the corner. Paint your ceiling down onto your wall. Then cut in your wall when dry. 
. If just one of them. Run a bead of caulk let it dry completely. Then cut your walls. The caulk should blend in with the ceiling and you'll be set


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

RobIannelli said:


> OK if your painting both ceiling and walls, Sand the crap out of the corner. Paint your ceiling down onto your wall. Then cut in your wall when dry.
> . If just one of them. Run a bead of caulk let it dry completely. Then cut your walls. The caulk should blend in with the ceiling and you'll be set


First off, I don't think I would contemplate cleaning out this corner unless the customer had leftover ceiling paint in good condition. Next, the texture on the ceiling and walls is rather hard and I have my doubts that sandpaper will cut through all the little knobs and such, but I will try that first to see if it works.

I generally like to start with something easy, then graduate to a more drastic technique if the previous one did not work. I am just trying to find out what others here might do in this situation.

I thank you all for your tips.

futtyos


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## Bguthrie321 (10 mo ago)

Yeah, I would probably do one of 3 things: 1. could try to caulk the corner between walls and ceiling to smooth that corner out a little. 2. Dig it out with your 5in1 and caulk. 3. Advise the Crown molding as an easier solution. Might even offer to install that myself, not that hard. Or the easiest way as mentioned in other replies, just run that wall paint up just a sliver on the ceiling, wont really notice unless your against the wall looking up.


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