# using GARDZ and XIM REPAIRZ (previously RESTORZ II) sealing red brick wall.



## XYZ (Sep 27, 2017)

*Project:*
Red brick wall in a heritage house in a finished basement set up as a children's play room.
The mortar sand between the red bricks was very soft and with the lightest touch was falling out.
Because it was a children's play room I was limited to type of products I could use.

My first try was: Micro-Seal. 
I sprayed generous amount of it but next day (after 24 hours) there was no improvement, the mortar sand was still very loose.

Second product to try was GARDZ.
(it was on the same wall but on the other side in the hot water tank room just to do testing) it was applied by brush on bricks and on the mortar.
After 24 hours mortar was glued by G but the "holding strength" was not that very good.
If you put your finger between the bricks and rub it couple of times the mortar sand would fall out.

Third product was XIM REPAIRZ (previously RESTORZ II).
Also applied by brush.
Next day after 24 hrs, the "holding strength" of XIM was very good, much harder/stronger than GARDZ.
XIM had very little smell during application and after was dry it had not too much of a sheen (customer preferred not to have sheen at all or very little of sheen).

I'm going to experiment using XIM on new or repaired & previously painted drywall (in my case I use Dust Control drywall compound for drywall repairs).
As I posted in: *"GARDZ-problems adhering to drywall mud."* thread http://www.painttalk.com/f2/gardz-problems-adhering-drywall-mud-82049/ GARDZ failed adhesion test on DustControl compound.
I like to see if XIM will do better.

Will post the results when done.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Don't use gardz!*



XYZ said:


> *Project:*
> Red brick wall in a heritage house in a finished basement set up as a children's play room.
> The mortar sand between the red bricks was very soft and with the lightest touch was falling out.
> Because it was a children's play room I was limited to type of products I could use.
> ...


I am not a tuckpointer, but I have looked into tuckpointing in my capacity of doing some low level property management. From what I understand, mortar is to brick what tires are to wheels. When tires run out of tread and get too worn to be safely driven on, their functional life is over and they need to be replaced, otherwise the wheel may start suffereing damage. When the mortar in between brick starts turning to sand, the mortar's functional life is over and needs to be removed and replaced with the appropriate material, probably lime mortar in the case of an old building. As I understand, lime mortar is weaker than cementitious mortar and will give in to pressure before the bricks themselves do just like a rubber tire will give in to pressure, thus helping prevent the metal wheel from getting banged up.

As much as I hate to say, neither Gardz nor any other product is going to "firm up" the crumbling mortar.

My best guess is that you need to dig out the mortar to some degree and replace it. Here is a short video on this process, but I am confidant that others here will give much better advice:






Good luck,

futtyos


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

How would a product like peelstop/peelbond work?


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

You need a 4"side grinder, some mortar and a squeeze bag.
Then I'd use loxon...


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## XYZ (Sep 27, 2017)

lilpaintchic said:


> You need a 4"side grinder, some mortar and a squeeze bag.
> Then I'd use loxon...





XYZ said:


> *Project:*
> Red brick wall in a heritage house in a finished basement set up as a children's play room.
> The mortar sand between the red bricks was very soft and with the lightest touch was falling out.
> *Because it was a children's play room I was limited to type of products I could use.*
> ...


*....*


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

futtyos said:


> I am not a tuckpointer, but I have looked into tuckpointing in my capacity of doing some low level property management. From what I understand, mortar is to brick what tires are to wheels. When tires run out of tread and get too worn to be safely driven on, their functional life is over and they need to be replaced, otherwise the wheel may start suffereing damage. When the mortar in between brick starts turning to sand, the mortar's functional life is over and needs to be removed and replaced with the appropriate material, probably lime mortar in the case of an old building. As I understand, lime mortar is weaker than cementitious mortar and will give in to pressure before the bricks themselves do just like a rubber tire will give in to pressure, thus helping prevent the metal wheel from getting banged up.
> 
> As much as I hate to say, neither Gardz nor any other product is going to "firm up" the crumbling mortar.
> 
> ...


Hey futtyos, I'm shocked you're not pushing your favorite primer for this, Gardz :smile: You should contact Zinnser, maybe you could become their spokesman, alla Bob Villa with Craftsman!:biggrin:


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## XYZ (Sep 27, 2017)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> How would a product like peelstop/peelbond work?


I was considering using XIM PEELBOND originally (I used it many times on exterior trims and facias) but it costs almost double.
If the XIM REPAIRZ (previously RESTORZ II) was not performing well in that aplication the PEELBOND was my next choice.

There were some holes in the wall in the mortar and I used *RapidSet-CementAll* to fix it with.

I use RapidSet-Cement All in exterior wood repairs, or inside when fixing deeper holes and if I need it I'm topping with DustControl drywall mud for smooth finish.

I like using RapidSet-Cement All because dries fast and is very hard and has proper *ph balance* so I can prime & paint same day or next day with no issues, not like some other concrete cements that need many days of curing before you can prime and paint them. 
Rotting wood posts or facias covered with RS-CA are very well protected because... "RS-CA is High performance, eco-friendly *hydraulic* cement formulation".
One day I will post pictures of wood repairs projects (and some interior projects) that I used RS-CA with great results.


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## XYZ (Sep 27, 2017)

futtyos said:


> I am not a tuckpointer, but I have looked into tuckpointing in my capacity of doing some low level property management. From what I understand, mortar is to brick what tires are to wheels. When tires run out of tread and get too worn to be safely driven on, their functional life is over and they need to be replaced, otherwise the wheel may start suffereing damage. When the mortar in between brick starts turning to sand, the mortar's functional life is over and needs to be removed and replaced with the appropriate material, probably lime mortar in the case of an old building. As I understand, lime mortar is weaker than cementitious mortar and will give in to pressure before the bricks themselves do just like a rubber tire will give in to pressure, thus helping prevent the metal wheel from getting banged up.
> 
> As much as I hate to say, neither Gardz nor any other product is going to "firm up" the crumbling mortar.
> 
> ...


Thank you, very interesting video. 
Yes that is the best proper way to deal with it, but in my case and the limitations of the project the solution with the XIM REPAIRZ (previously RESTORZ II) worked very well, the mortar was sealed, of course was not sealed very deep but enough for the sand not to fall out in case the children would put their fingers in it.

One other detail to this project is that this red brick wall was an exterior wall but couple of years ago addition was build and it become interior wall, otherwise I don't think the interior red brick wall in the heritage house would have mortar deteriorating that much, (tho I'm not sure how interior red brick walls behave with time, especially the mortar in them).


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## The Cutting Edge (May 25, 2014)

Try this:
Tell them you're actually a painter. Call a brick layer if they want it fixed.
And everyone has seen your gardz thread by now.
Feel like I'm getting spammed.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

XYZ said:


> *....*


The children's safety should be of concern then. It doesn't sound like a product issue. It sounds structural. The failing mortar can not be resolved by other means. It needs to be replaced.


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## XYZ (Sep 27, 2017)

lilpaintchic said:


> The children's safety should be of concern then. It doesn't sound like a product issue. It sounds structural. The failing mortar can not be resolved by other means. *It needs to be replaced.*


No it doesn't.
As I showed in my post I found a way to solve the issue without very expensive (and in this particular case very unnecessary procedure).
P.S. - is my English really that hard to understand or some of you just stubborn with (only my way of doing things is the right way). ???
Asking for a friend....


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## XYZ (Sep 27, 2017)

The Cutting Edge said:


> Try this:
> Tell them you're actually a painter. Call a brick layer if they want it fixed.
> *And everyone *has seen your gardz thread by now.
> Feel like I'm getting spammed.


Please don't speak for everyone, please don't...

There are non-members lurkers and DIY people who are reading only latest posts so to make things easier on them that's why I included the link.


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## Eagle Cap Painter (Nov 14, 2016)

XYZ said:


> No it doesn't.
> As I showed in my post I found a way to solve the issue without very expensive (and in this particular case very unnecessary procedure).
> P.S. - is my English really that hard to understand or some of you just stubborn with (only my way of doing things is the right way). ???
> Asking for a friend....


Multiple professionals are telling you the same thing and you refuse to accept their opinion. This is clearly something you're not experienced with, so why are you posting if not for advice? It's you. You're the stubborn one.


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## XYZ (Sep 27, 2017)

Eagle Cap Painter said:


> Multiple professionals are telling you the same thing and you refuse to accept their opinion. This is clearly something you're not experienced with, so why are you posting if not for advice? It's you. You're the stubborn one.


So if customer is asking you to fix the issue without doing the extensive and expensive fix, 
(of course I told the customer that the proper fix is to replace the mortar or at least to cover with thicker layer of RapiSet-CementAll as I did filling the holes seen in the attached picture, 
so you would just refuse to do the job and refuse to help the customer out because you have some unreasonable principles.
This was not a case of some dangerous structural brick wall that might be falling because the mortar was crumbling.

How many times pro painters are asked to do just quick repaint job skipping proper procedures, 
if customer is fully aware of it there is no reason to just walk away from the job and leaving customer strangled.

We are not talking about for example electrician or a plumber or car mechanic (or numerous other trades) being asked by customer to do just quick cheap unsafe repair job. 
In case of doing quick (not fully properly executed) paint job with customer being aware of it is not going to cause safety as electrical or plumbing or car fix could.
Of course there are some things in painting that I would not do when asked by customer, like for example I would (and I did in the past) walk away from jobs when asked to paint with cheap latex paint over existing oil paint.
I DID PAINTED WITH HIGH QUALITY LATEX OVER OIL, but that latex was designed for that and after doing 24 hours adhesion test area I did the requested job without using proper bonding primer as asked by the customer.

So I'm not chasing all the pay cheques and do any possible hack jobs requested by the uninformed or unscrupulous customers.
There are limits to what I will accept as a reasonable 'compromise' after seeing and fixing so many of them.

*Talking about hack jobs,* 
in the same heritage home that the ground level addition was build the whole house was renovated, and the painter 
(I don't know if by the request of the GC or by his own choice) he used Sh-W Super Paint in black store tinted color (with 16 ounces of pigment in the can) (not even using factory tinted black paint) and he painted over old white color oil trims.

There was so many nicks on doors and baseboards showing white paint and the customer asked me to do the touchups, 
I said how come after not even full two years there is many paint nicks, after scraping with my finger nail paint in several places and taking magnifying glass to it there was no scratch marks from even light scuffing (yes I know because it was old oil paint the painter didn't sanded), but at least use 'liquid sander' and don't use this crappy Supper Paint from Sh-W, at least use excellently bonding Sh-W PRO INDUSTRIAL Multi-Surface Acrylic.

I felt very bad for the customer and told him to bring a paint inspector to write up a legal report and to go after the General Contractor and sue him.
Since the house is occupied I said the only way to fix it would be to use very light non-toxic paint softening "paint stripper type of product" so not to create any dust and remove existing black paint (doing room by room) and use liquid sandpaper/deglosser and use water based paint that is designed to go over oil paint. 

Seeing that so very dishonest paint job made me cringe.
I don't really enjoy to make money when I have to fix hack jobs and customers are sad because they were taken for a 'ride' by previous hack painters. 
Making money when people are beautifying their places is much more happy and rewarding situation for them and for me.

So there are situations that I will refuse doing "not so proper" jobs, making money is not my only drive.

In real life's situations you need to be flexible to help customers, and in case of that mortar fix I was very happy to provide safe and inexpensive fix.
No need to be stubborn and walk away if it can be done, with proper explanation to the customer that is not the best way of fixing it.

I guess I omitted mentioning in my original post that I did suggested to the customer of doing the mortar replacement or at least covering with the RapiSet-CementAll and the customer asked me if it can be saturated with some special chemical non toxic liquid to seal the crumbling mortar.
I guess if I mention that in my opening post that would be understood by all of you.* My fault for not including that info.*


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## XYZ (Sep 27, 2017)

Eagle Cap Painter said:


> Multiple professionals are telling you the same thing and you refuse to accept their opinion. This is clearly something you're not experienced with, *so why are you posting if not for advice?* It's you. You're the stubborn one.


Sorry but I was under the impression that we can post here not only to ask for an advice but also to share our experiences.
My sincere apology.


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## XYZ (Sep 27, 2017)

Just one picture of the hack paint job in that heritage home, (on the garage side door), the same thing is all over the whole home.
Very sad event.
How some tradesman can sleep at night knowing that they are doing such dishonest work. :sad:


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

XYZ said:


> No it doesn't.
> As I showed in my post I found a way to solve the issue without very expensive (and in this particular case very unnecessary procedure).
> P.S. - is my English really that hard to understand or some of you just stubborn with (only my way of doing things is the right way). ???
> Asking for a friend....


Yes, I am stubborn. I am also married to a mason. And yes, the info provided at the end of your post was helpful in that the best method option was discussed with the ho and rejected. Next best option was a gluey coating. Glad you found one that worked...


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*My reaction to your post*



lilpaintchic said:


> Yes, I am stubborn. I am also married to a mason. And yes, the info provided at the end of your post was helpful in that the best method option was discussed with the ho and rejected. Next best option was a gluey coating. Glad you found one that worked...


I think I just woke the neighbors up laughing because of your post! Old brick mortar has a life span, after which it needs to be replaced. I could be wrong, no?

futtyos


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## XYZ (Sep 27, 2017)

lilpaintchic said:


> Yes, I am stubborn. I am also married to a mason.* And yes, the info provided at the end of your post was helpful in that the best method option was discussed with the ho and rejected.* Next best option was a gluey coating. Glad you found one that worked...


You know lilpaintchic, funny thing is that I was going to post that info in my original post 
but I said my posts are already so long that I skipped that part, and even more funny is that I got the second 'nudging in my mind' to include that part but I just moved along explaining my processes dealing with that wall.

And now looking at that post I agree that people reading it would give me the response I received.

How many times we getting this 'inner voice' telling-suggesting we do something and sometimes we listen to it but sometimes we override it thinking it's just our overactive mind.:wink:

BTW, Thanks for your suggestions,:smile:


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

futtyos said:


> I think I just woke the neighbors up laughing because of your post! Old brick mortar has a life span, after which it needs to be replaced. I could be wrong, no?
> 
> futtyos


Yes, it does. My hubby has just spent the last two weekends repairing my neighbors failing mortar so it's fresh in my mind...
It wouldn't be hard to erect a zip wall and do it right. The ho didn't want that though...so, it is what it is. My hubby said caulk the crap out of it then.lol... whatever.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

XYZ said:


> You know lilpaintchic, funny thing is that I was going to post that info in my original post
> but I said my posts are already so long that I skipped that part, and even more funny is that I got the second 'nudging in my mind' to include that part but I just moved along explaining my processes dealing with that wall.
> 
> And now looking at that post I agree that people reading it would give me the response I received.
> ...


Oh I understand the ways of an over active mind, that's for sure!


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## getrex (Feb 13, 2017)

Just being an a55 here... but you just got done complaining about fixing someone else's hack job and you're doing the same thing. It's great that you found a solution that your HO was happy with but don't try to make it sound noble. Some day an actual mason will probably be cursing you out. It is what it is and you do what you gotta do. As long as you have educated your HO on their options then you're fine.


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## XYZ (Sep 27, 2017)

getrex said:


> Just being an a55 here... but you just got done complaining about fixing someone else's hack job and you're doing the same thing. It's great that you found a solution that your HO was happy with but don't try to make it sound noble. Some day an actual mason will probably be cursing you out. It is what it is and you do what you gotta do. *As long as you have educated your HO on their options then you're fine.*


*Yes I did that *,but I made a mistake not mentioning that in my opining post.
I admitted to it here in this post:




XYZ said:


> ........
> ........
> In real life's situations you need to be flexible to help customers, and in case of that mortar fix I was very happy to provide safe and inexpensive fix.
> No need to be stubborn and walk away if it can be done, with proper explanation to the customer that is not the best way of fixing it.
> ...


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## getrex (Feb 13, 2017)

I did say I was being an a55.


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## XYZ (Sep 27, 2017)

getrex said:


> Just being an a55 here... but you just got done complaining about fixing someone else's hack job and you're doing the same thing. It's great that you found a solution that your HO was happy with but don't try to make it sound noble. *Some day an actual mason will probably be cursing you out.* It is what it is and you do what you gotta do. As long as you have educated your HO on their options then you're fine.


No you are wrong, 
if there will be this very extremely remote chance that the home owners will decide to re-do the mortar the actual mason will have no reason to curse me because I didn't do anything that was even remotely comparable to painting latex paint over old oil paint (I'm talking about using Super-Paint that is not even remotely designed/formulated to be put over oil paint).

What I did was totally in line with the HO request, not to make huge project out of it.
And yes my first suggestion was to replace the mortar but the HO asked for simpler solution.
Please understand that not all so called 'hack' solutions are that bad.

I hope that you agree that the latex paint job done over old oil is in the very different very severe category, in the dishonesty category.
What I did fixing the symptoms of falling out sand from the mortar was not dishonest, it provided the fix that I and the HO we were was satisfied with, the sand was glued in place, and was difficult for me to rub it off with my finger, and will be even more difficult for a child to do so.


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## XYZ (Sep 27, 2017)

getrex said:


> I did say I was being an a55.


LOL, I'm cool with your "challenge", by not putting that disclaimer in my opening post I set myself up for understandable criticism.


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## XYZ (Sep 27, 2017)

getrex said:


> Just being an a55 here... but you just got done complaining about fixing someone else's hack job and you're doing the same thing. It's great that you found a solution that your HO was happy with but don't try to make it sound noble. *Some day an actual mason will probably be cursing you out.* It is what it is and you do what you gotta do. As long as you have educated your HO on their options then you're fine.




*getrex*
just to have fun with you... actual mason will be searching me out to buy me bottle of vine to thank me that he has a gig replacing the mortar...:vs_laugh:

I'm going to post a really horror story from a different house _* (with pictures of the damaged area not of the actual plumbers, lol)*_ how two plumbers (from the same company on two different visits fixing something else), refused (yes they softly refused by saying that it's nothing urgent, I guess they had bigger jobs to take care of at that time) fixing bathtub faucet drip, very very slow drip, maybe drop of water every 30 seconds and that very slow drip it caused the HO almost 2K to fix water damage in the basement rental suite, but the water damage was discovered only 5 months after first plumber was asked to fix the leaking faucet.

I'm not sure if it will be OK for me to post this *"Slow faucet drip horror story"* here in this thread or if the Mods prefer I made a separate thread for it.
Mods, if you can give me your opinion please. I just don't want to start threads if Admin prefers to keep it fewer new threads from being made.
Thanks


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

XYZ said:


> *getrex*
> just to have fun with you... actual mason will be searching me out to buy me bottle of vine to thank me that he has a gig replacing the mortar...:vs_laugh:
> 
> I'm going to post a really horror story from a different house _* (with pictures of the damaged area not of the actual plumbers, lol)*_ how two plumbers (from the same company on two different visits fixing something else), refused (yes they softly refused by saying that it's nothing urgent, I guess they had bigger jobs to take care of at that time) fixing bathtub faucet drip, very very slow drip, maybe drop of water every 30 seconds and that very slow drip it caused the HO almost 2K to fix water damage in the basement rental suite, but the water damage was discovered only 5 months after first plumber was asked to fix the leaking faucet.
> ...


You could post it under the "random thoughts" or "off topic" threads. It just seems (imo) to be a more appropriate spot for it.


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## XYZ (Sep 27, 2017)

lilpaintchic said:


> You could post it under the "random thoughts" or "off topic" threads. It just seems (imo) to be a more appropriate spot for it.


Thanks.


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## getrex (Feb 13, 2017)

You need to relax. Don't get overly defensive.


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## XYZ (Sep 27, 2017)

getrex said:


> You need to relax. Don't get overly defensive.


I'm super relaxed.
I have no idea why you are suggesting that I'm defensive, when? what?
I just explained things to you so you don't make false assumptions about me.
Sorry to hurt your feelings:vs_shocked:

whatever man....


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## Haris (Aug 23, 2017)

I don't see anything wrong with OP sealing the mortar on a brick wall as long he made HO aware it's only a temporary fix. As long the HO and contractor are on the same page I don't see an issue with a quick fix. Just my 2 cents worth


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

should have just used a coat of Behrs Marquee and been done with it!


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## XYZ (Sep 27, 2017)

PACman said:


> should have just used a coat of Behrs Marquee and been done with it!


Actually I painted two times with Marq, (customers requested).
I must say that the paint was spreading under the brush & roller much easier and nicer than the BenjM paints that are so thick and gummy.
The strong smell of Marq was not pleasant, but workability much superior to BenjM in my experience.


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## getrex (Feb 13, 2017)

Behr smells like food.


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## kerryman71 (Oct 9, 2017)

XYZ said:


> Actually I painted two times with Marq, (customers requested).
> I must say that the paint was spreading under the brush & roller much easier and nicer than the BenjM paints that are so thick and gummy.
> The strong smell of Marq was not pleasant, but workability much superior to BenjM in my experience.


Yeah, kind of watery, right?


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## XYZ (Sep 27, 2017)

kerryman71 said:


> Yeah, kind of watery, right?


No it wasn't watery in a sense of running, it was actually very nice smooth buttery feel to it, I was really pleasantly surprised how nice it was to work with it.
I remember thinking I wish BM Regal or BM K&Bath was so nice to work with it.
Because BM paints are so thick and gummy (especially painting during warm/hot summer days) I stopped using them over a year ago unless specifically requested by customers.

I used to talk customers into using BM paints (even tho the BM Platinum level discount is really insignificant) but after several really frustrating jobs (and couple of ceiling repaints on my own dime, one in bathroom other in kitchen) with K&B during summer time and with BM extender added to it, I said no more.
Very gummy very thick paints, ruins microfibers rollers after second wash, gums up paint brushes, I switched to different brand.
Aura is of course in different category than Regal but also gummy.
Yellow label flat ceiling paint is really nice & flat, I heard (from the store employee) that is actually Aura. No sure if it's true. 

Also BM Gennex pigments in light pastel colors suck in hiding power.
In dark colors Gennex pigments are outstanding, phenomenal, -in pastels... worst than old Universal pigments. 
No much worst, but definitely not as good as old Universal pigments.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Switched to a different brand?*



XYZ said:


> No it wasn't watery in a sense of running, it was actually very nice smooth buttery feel to it, I was really pleasantly surprised how nice it was to work with it.
> I remember thinking I wish BM Regal or BM K&Bath was so nice to work with it.
> Because BM paints are so thick and gummy (especially painting during warm/hot summer days) I stopped using them over a year ago unless specifically requested by customers.
> 
> ...


XYZ, What brand of paint did you switch to?

futtyos


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## getrex (Feb 13, 2017)

Glidden


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## kerryman71 (Oct 9, 2017)

I pretty much only use Ben Moore, and haven't experienced the issues you speak of. Yes, it's a heavy paint, but I haven't found it to be unworkable, and once the job is completed the customer is extremely happy with the end result.

Maybe it's where you bought it. I did have an instance where a customer picked up their own paint from a different retailer than I get mine, and when I strained and boxed it, the stuff I pulled out of the strainer was unreal.

Either way, sounds like you found something that works for you.

John


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## Haris (Aug 23, 2017)

I also had issues using BM Aura and Ultraspec eggshell when painting new construction homes in really hot summer days. Paint becomes gummy and dries really fast making it more difficult to work with, extenders do help a little bit but not much. It wasn't a deal breaker for me though and I'm still using BM products. Just have to move little bit faster especially when back rolling the walls.


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## kerryman71 (Oct 9, 2017)

Agree. As with any product, you have to know how weather, temperature, humidity will affect it and plan/work accordingly. 


John


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## XYZ (Sep 27, 2017)

Haris said:


> I also had issues using BM Aura and Ultraspec eggshell when painting new construction homes in really hot summer days. Paint becomes gummy and dries really fast making it more difficult to work with, extenders do help a little bit but not much. It wasn't a deal breaker for me though and I'm still using BM products. Just have to move little bit faster especially when back rolling the walls.





kerryman71 said:


> Agree. As with any product, you have to know *how weather, temperature, humidity will affect it and plan/work accordingly.
> *
> 
> John


Hmmmm....
yes I like to see the look on customers face when I will tell them that the famous considered to be *the best * (or one of the best) paint in the industry and the most expensive can not be used to paint in their home for next 4 days or two weeks because the weather is not going to be perfect (according to the lab conditions that paint AURA or Regal were created and tested in), that is going to be too hot and too dry so painting has to wait,
unless I can use several other brands of paint that are almost half in price and not so sensitive to perfect weather conditions. 

If I'm paying (and customers are paying) so much money for B/M I expect to be way more user friendly and no so fussy.
And what's the advantage of the Gennex pigments that in the most often used light pastel colors the Gennex pigments are very poor performers in hiding quality. And the paint is so expensive and fussy to work with it.
Yes when the weather is cooler and not so dry the workability of B/M paints are OK, but that's not how many other brand paints act.

I just don't understand why B/M makes their paints so thick and gummy? Maybe I'm missing something here.
It is so they can claim that B/M painted walls can be washed or scrubbed 250 times.
I would switch back to B/M is the washability and scrubbibility was reduced to "only" 150 times and the paint was much less sensitive and easier to work with.
But I would only use B/M in dark colors with Gennex pigments, in light pastel colors I would buy and use paints using old Universal pigments.

I was so in love with B/M, but after losing money (or making next to nothing) because I had to repaint few ceilings and walls because paint was drying supper fast I got cold towards the hype of B/M paints, (except as I said in dark colors).


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## XYZ (Sep 27, 2017)

futtyos said:


> XYZ, What brand of paint did you switch to?
> 
> futtyos


I switched to Dulux now, but when some customers are asking for B/M I'm using B/M.
I found Dulux paints to be very easy to work with. 

I used to talk customers into using B/M over other brands of less expensive paints, I was "pushing" B/M very passionately but changed my mind on it.


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## kerryman71 (Oct 9, 2017)

I think you misunderstood me when I said plan/work accordingly. I've never pushed a job off because of weather, unless rain of course. On an interior job in the warm weather, I start painting the rooms on the side of the house that get the sun earliest in the day, as those rooms will be warmer as the day goes on. And of course I may need a little more pep in my step. 

John


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Thank you*



XYZ said:


> I switched to Dulux now, but when some customers are asking for B/M I'm using B/M.
> I found Dulux paints to be very easy to work with.
> 
> I used to talk customers into using B/M over other brands of less expensive paints, I was "pushing" B/M very passionately but changed my mind on it.


XYZ, thank you for answering my question about what brand of paint you most use now. 

If I may, I would like to ask another question: what is your first language? What is the language you learned from infancy?

futtyos


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## Haris (Aug 23, 2017)

XYZ said:


> Hmmmm....
> yes I like to see the look on customers face when I will tell them that the famous considered to be *the best * (or one of the best) paint in the industry and the most expensive can not be used to paint in their home for next 4 days or two weeks because the weather is not going to be perfect (according to the lab conditions that paint AURA or Regal were created and tested in), that is going to be too hot and too dry so painting has to wait,
> unless I can use several other brands of paint that are almost half in price and not so sensitive to perfect weather conditions.
> 
> ...


I have never had to postpone a job while using BM paints in hot summer days and it gets really hot where I work and live. As I mentioned already we have to use extenders and move a bit faster but in the end finished product is worth it, never had a client that didn't love Aura's finish. Yes Aura is expensive and takes some time to learn how to use it properly but it's probably the best paint on the market today especially Aura matte interior.
English is actually my third language but I think everyone here is understanding each other just fine and there is no language barriers.


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## XYZ (Sep 27, 2017)

Haris said:


> I have never had to postpone a job while using BM paints in hot summer days and it gets really hot where I work and live. As I mentioned already we have to use extenders and move a bit faster but in the end finished product is worth it, never had a client that didn't love Aura's finish. Yes Aura is expensive and takes some time to learn how to use it properly but it's probably the best paint on the market today especially Aura matte interior.
> English is actually my third language but I think everyone here is understanding each other just fine and there is no language barriers.


Yes AURA has very nice finish, but Aura also has different consistency than Regal or Kitchen & Bath, Aura is nicer to work with, tho I was laughing when A first come out and B/M had pamphlets explaining how to work with A and one of the 'tricks' was to put a kettle or pot with water on the stove and boil it to create steam/moisture, I was laughing thinking almost $70/gal paint and doesn't come with it's own kettle, LOL

Yes,it was funny that such expensive paint required this 'procedure', I never did that, but it would be funny to watch customer walking into their home full of steam,...crazy concept.

One of my very bad experiences with B/M K&Bath was in bathroom with 6 lights,smoke alarm,air fan...it was summer time, and I moved fast painting that ceiling, and still had brush marks and roller lap marks,..went back to the store and they added maximum allowed for the remaining 1/2 gal of paint of their extender, it helped a bit but nothing spectacular.
It was like painting with rubber glue.
Painting kitchen ceiling (open concept) was the same disaster. 
Got really discouraged, frustrated and lost money, (made next to nothing).:sad: 


One thing I really like that B/M has is their stirring sticks, they are thicker wood than from other paint companies.
And I like their primers, Fresh Start, water and oil, just used B/M exterior long oil two weeks ago.


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## Haris (Aug 23, 2017)

XYZ said:


> Yes AURA has very nice finish, but Aura also has different consistency than Regal or Kitchen & Bath, Aura is nicer to work with, tho I was laughing when A first come out and B/M had pamphlets explaining how to work with A and one of the 'tricks' was to put a kettle or pot with water on the stove and boil it to create steam/moisture, I was laughing thinking almost $70/gal paint and doesn't come with it's own kettle, LOL
> 
> Yes,it was funny that such expensive paint required this 'procedure', I never did that, but it would be funny to watch customer walking into their home full of steam,...crazy concept.
> 
> ...


I can see how you would have problems painting ceilings in hot weather, especially if cutting in and rolling as the hot air raises to the top and makes paint dry very quickly. We spray ceilings 95% of the time so we didn't have that issue but on a couple of occasions we had problems with flashing on large flat ceilings area using BM paint. We ended up rolling them which meant money out of my pocket for additional paint and my guys wages. So I started trying out different flat ceilling paints until I came across Cloverdale Pro-Coat flat paint, name has changed to Master Painter last year but it's pretty much exact same product. It's designed to hide drywall imperfections on flat ceilings, goes on nice, sands easy and dries to dead flat finish and it touches up great. If you have a Cloverdale paint store where you live look for Master Painter flat, you won't regret it. I switched over a few years ago and never looked back and because we use it so much I get great pricing on it as well.


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