# BM over Zinsser Products



## MKJ (Sep 27, 2012)

Asked BM tech support a couple of questions regarding Advance, one answer from the company was interesting:

Any issues with Advance on BIN? Yes, there are known compatibility issues with Benjamin Moore over Zinsser Primers.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

That's Bullsh!t when advance came out. I tested it over Zinsser BIN, Zinsser primecoat 2, BM Advance primer and Inslx Stix with no problems whatsoever. 

Which primer do they want you to use?


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## MKJ (Sep 27, 2012)

They would probably advise their products only. Was just surprised that BM would essentially blanket out using their products (note they didn't just specify Advance as having a problem but BM as a whole) on a line that's used extensively???

Just giving Advance a shot. Use BIN extensively. Any input from your experience?


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

Why are you using BIN Primer? Occupied home??


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## MKJ (Sep 27, 2012)

In some cases. Mostly NC. Many clients run poplar, spraying cabs as well. Quick turn, blocking on poplar, sand, great surface base for topcoats, enamel holdhout. Lots of properties that have served me well.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

BIN can be the love, and the sweet smell of success.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

A manufacturer will never recommend applying their product over another's. Too much risk for untested scenarios. Did you ask the tech if Insl-X "Seal Lock" is an acceptable alternative to BIN?

Sent from my Android, which is still better than the iPhone 6


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## MKJ (Sep 27, 2012)

I didn't but I think that's a CCC product, no? If their issue is not recommending any other brand due to liability issues, I suspect it'll be the same answer. What raised an eyebrow wasn't that they would disclaim, caveat, etc. when using another brand, I get it. But, the blanket "BM has known issues when using over [fill in the blank]" seems to put them more in the -- don't use our product, no matter what unless you use ONLY our products.

Not only unrealistic, but certainly limiting in their appeal to their customer base.

I'll ask...thanks much for the response!


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## Ultimate (Mar 20, 2011)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> That's Bullsh!t when advance came out. I tested it over Zinsser BIN, Zinsser primecoat 2, BM Advance primer and Inslx Stix with no problems whatsoever.
> 
> Which primer do they want you to use?


In case anyone missed the obvious there


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## MKJ (Sep 27, 2012)

Of course they're going to push customers to their products. It'd be naive to think otherwise. The uniqueness of the statement from BM is the categorical rejection of their products compatibility with a very prevalent product line. 

On the occasion when I do talk to the tech folks, they are usually more forthright about product compatibility issue, etc. Now, the sales side and reps, another story. To be expected.

The more important question, at least for me, is:
Anyone had issues with Advance/Bin? Good, bad ugly?

Thanks to all for the input.
MJ


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## Susan (Nov 29, 2011)

With Advance, I'm guessing that they would suggest that one should use the Advance primer.

Or something comparable in terms of price.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Bin-jamin Moore.:whistling2:


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

FPoE would always say not to go over Bin and I believe I remember reading on the Advance sheet the same thing. Something about the Bin being too brittle? I did find out the hard way that you don't want to use PPG Breakthrough over BM superior primer. The gennex primer is softer and results in a fine hairline cracking all over when you put Breakthrough over it. Way crazy! It's like the coating can't cover it completely as it keeps separating over the primer. My rep confirmed that tech support said its a classic case of resin incompatibility.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

FatherandSonPainting said:


> In case anyone missed the obvious there


FYI BM Superior Primer would be a better choice, Since the BM Advance Primer sucks. The reason I asked which primer they suggested is because they have lots of options available.


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## NACE (May 16, 2008)

Alkyd Enamel Underbody 217-00. Regal First Coat, 216, any alkyd or latex enamel underbody. Underbody primers are generally bonding primers vs sealing primers and are designed to sand and provide a uniformly sealed foundation so the top coat does not flash or strike in. Underbody primers are more flexible and less brittle. Muralo has a great one too, 563. I suppose the FS Superior 046 would work too.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> FYI BM Superior Primer would be a better choice, Since the BM Advance Primer sucks. The reason I asked which primer they suggested is because they have lots of options available.


Fantastic product right there. ^^^^^^^^^^^

Sent from my Android, which is still better than the iPhone 6


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## MKJ (Sep 27, 2012)

From the TDS for Advance Semi:

Primer for Wood and Engineeried Products:
Advance® Waterborne Interior Alkyd Primer (790), Fresh Start® All-Purpose 100% Acrylic Primer (N023), Fresh Start®100% Acrylic Superior Primer (046) or Fresh Start® All-Purpose Alkyd Primer (024)

As with a number of post here and elsewhere on the forum, I hadn't heard good things about Advance Primer. Used 217 over the years and haven't had problems with cracking/brittleness using BIN interior only. But as I force my way into the new era of waterbornes, etc I love picking at the experience here so it doesn't hurt so bad.:wallbash:


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Benjamin Moore doesnt have a primer solution in place of BIN. Epic fail to isolate a product from a staple product such as BIN especially where BIN is often used happens to be the same areas guys want to use Advance.


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## Susan (Nov 29, 2011)

jack pauhl said:


> Benjamin Moore doesnt have a primer solution in place of BIN. Epic fail to isolate a product from a staple product such as BIN especially where BIN is often used happens to be the same areas guys want to use Advance.


Seal Lock 

Stix

Insl-x products, BM owned. No?


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## Ultimate (Mar 20, 2011)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> That's Bullsh!t when advance came out. I tested it over Zinsser BIN, Zinsser primecoat 2, BM Advance primer and Inslx Stix with no problems whatsoever.
> 
> Which primer do they want you to use?





MKJ said:


> Asked BM tech support a couple of questions regarding Advance, one answer from the company was interesting:
> 
> Any issues with Advance on BIN? Yes, there are known compatibility issues with Benjamin Moore over *Zinsser Primers*.





ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> FYI BM Superior Primer would be a better choice, Since the BM Advance Primer sucks. The reason I asked which primer they suggested is because they have lots of options available.


What struck me initially was the generality of Zinnser products as a bad option for priming with Ben Moore, generally again. <---- Ridiculousness. I wonder if that was even properly quoted. Your replied question led me to believe you were thinking along those same lines, just responding in a more subtle fashion. I didn't read past your post in this thread before deciding to quote you with a little emphasis added. I then reread the thread and saw some others had already picked up on it, considered deleting my post but then figured, with a claim such as that from Benny why not just keep it up. 

Probably didn't need all that explanation but there it is anyway:thumbsup:.

The CS product I have used under Advance and it was problem free. I believe there are other primers that do the job, but I have been bitten when convinced to use something different before, so I just stick with what I know works. 

I'd give up BM before giving up Zinnser any day. Anyhoo.


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## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

I use 1-2-3 for primer on new res and finish with BenMoore. No issues .


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

jack pauhl said:


> Benjamin Moore doesnt have a primer solution in place of BIN. Epic fail to isolate a product from a staple product such as BIN especially where BIN is often used happens to be the same areas guys want to use Advance.


Insl-X Seal Lock is BM's BIN. Another member pointed that out already. I figured it was worth a repeat.

Sent from my Android, which is still better than the iPhone 6


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## MKJ (Sep 27, 2012)

FatherandSonPainting said:


> What struck me initially was the generality of Zinnser products as a bad option for priming with Ben Moore, generally again. <---- Ridiculousness. I wonder if that was even properly quoted. Your replied question led me to believe you were thinking along those same lines, just responding in a more subtle fashion. I didn't read past your post in this thread before deciding to quote you with a little emphasis added. I then reread the thread and saw some others had already picked up on it, considered deleting my post but then figured, with a claim such as that from Benny why not just keep it up.
> 
> Probably didn't need all that explanation but there it is anyway:thumbsup:.
> 
> ...


It was quoted properly. Both email (which was cut and paste from the tech's email into my original post) and voice follow up with tech.

Made comment in a couple of posts above more about the generality of the statement as you noted. Never surprised when a tech tells me to stay away from a certain specific product or formulation. An exclusion of anything but BM -- surprised.

Didn't know BM purchased Insl-x a couple of years back and they are the parent of CCC. Not sure what the response would be about Seal Lock.

Shot BIN, Advance over top. Couldn't ask for more. Easy on, easy sand, easy on, fantastic finish. Glad I gave Advance a try.

Problems now? No. Problems later? Not keeping me up. Still a BIN fan.


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## playedout6 (Apr 27, 2009)

Scotiadawg said:


> I use 1-2-3 for primer on new res and finish with BenMoore. No issues .


We used the 1-2-3 primer for the first time on an exterior that had the huge BC Cedar shingles . It stopped the bleed very well . I was impressed !


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## A+HomeWork (Dec 10, 2010)

FatherandSonPainting said:


> I'd give up BM before giving up Zinnser any day. Anyhoo.


I wish I could get hold of some Zinsser T-shirts!


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