# Estimators



## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Any of you guys use an outside estimator for larger jobs? I have a 100k sq/ft school I'm putting numbers together on asap. I'm just worried about missing duct work, sprinkler pipes or misc items along the way. Bid off prints only. If so can you recomend someone in the northeast to use. I have 1 but I'm looking for 2 more. Please no estimators that are on the payroll for larger competing companies. Thanks.


----------



## timhag (Sep 30, 2007)

Sounds like a really nice gig. Wish I could advise on this but can't, can just hope for the best on this one brother. Good Luck.


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

NEPS

Are they general prints? Is this new construction? Can you get a set of the mechanical prints?


----------



## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> NEPS
> 
> Are they general prints? Is this new construction? Can you get a set of the mechanical prints?


Suppose to be full set. Ground up.


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

The full set will help alot. Hit the mechanical section with a highlighter on everything that is exposed. 

I have never done anything that even approached that scope. We have always maxed out around 10k s.f., and to mosty painters 4 is large, but 100 is almost unfathomable. If I didnt know you, I probably wouldnt even believe it! 

I dont blame you for being concerned. At that size, if you are off on budget by even 5% in any area, which on an ordinary scope isnt the end of the world, it can be a very big deal. Eating any quantity of ductwork or exposed mechanical is huge. Do you have any plumbing, electrical or mechanical colleagues who could put their eyes on that aspect of the prints? If so, a few beers will get you there.

If you get this job, you will have to hire all the ooompa looompas from down to old Willie Wonkas Chocolate Factory and hook them up with some sprayers!

Your friend
:wheelchair:


----------



## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> The full set will help alot. Hit the mechanical section with a highlighter on everything that is exposed.
> 
> I have never done anything that even approached that scope. We have always maxed out around 10k s.f., and to mosty painters 4 is large, but 100 is almost unfathomable. If I didnt know you, I probably wouldnt even believe it!
> 
> ...


 
Thanks Scott,
I've bid a couple projects this size before ...never prevailing wage of this size tho .... The good thing is that I've never been the low bidder .... I'm working on a few professional estimators to give a crack at it and see where they and I end up ...could be a nice little job.... probably a low percentage win...but nice if it comes....thing that sucks is that if I get it I'll be scared ....thinking I missed something!


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> Thanks Scott,
> I've bid a couple projects this size before ...never prevailing wage of this size tho .... The good thing is that I've never been the low bidder .... I'm working on a few professional estimators to give a crack at it and see where they and I end up ...could be a nice little job.... probably a low percentage win...but nice ....thing that sucks is that if I get it I'll be scared ....thinking I missed something!


Another thought that might work really well...I'm sure its not a local GC, but I would try calling their home office and talking to their estimator, who did the original mechanical takeoffs. Ask him for lineal footages of finished mechanical product. To me, this is no different than asking for s.f. of walls or l.f. of casing. Contractor estimators are usually chained to their drafting table and pretty easy to reach. You may be surprised what he can tell you. That way, you are pricing based on their takeoffs, and of course you would state that in the contract, in the event of discrepancy. If they are unable to provide this information, then I would put it in your contract as an exclusion and if you end up doing a bunch of it, its an extra. This way you are covered in either event.


----------



## timhag (Sep 30, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> thing that sucks is that if I get it I'll be scared ....thinking I missed something!


NEPS, I think this feeling is universal. I get the same way with bigger jobs. I drive myself nuts over this sh*t. Some times I'll wake up in the middle of the night writing notes. Gonna have a heart attack if I don't calm myself down....lol


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

No doubt, if you find out you were the low bidder, head for the hills!


----------



## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> That way, you are pricing based on their takeoffs, and of course you would state that in the contract, in the event of discrepancy. If they are unable to provide this information, then I would put it in your contract as an exclusion and if you end up doing a bunch of it, its an extra. This way you are covered in either event.


 
Not sure if I would trust them that much.. ...this will likely be a 20 page estimate with many exclusions. .... I dont see us "kickin in" much on this one....maybe 2 hours or so!


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> Not sure if I would trust them that much.. ./quote]
> 
> Have him fax or email it to you as finished mechanical by type and finish. If you have it in writing, you would be covered.
> 
> ...


----------



## cullybear (Mar 10, 2008)

These plans you are getting should say if you are painting exposed ceilings. Most schools I see are all drop in ceilings with cmu block and alot of block filler and semi gloss paint. You have to watch for striping, which is usually in the gym and the area where you paint the exposed ceiling Good Luck
Mark
www.cullenpainting.net


----------



## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

cullybear said:


> These plans you are getting should say if you are painting exposed ceilings. Most schools I see are all drop in ceilings with cmu block and alot of block filler and semi gloss paint. You have to watch for striping, which is usually in the gym and the area where you paint the exposed ceiling Good Luck
> Mark
> www.cullenpainting.net


Thanks Mark, I have done a few before.... usually re-models ...This is the first ground up school of this size for us. I've done alot of take offs of block, exposed pipes .... etc ... epoxies, dryfall.... metal paints..... Its just a matter of counting all the ducks and not missing any .... one miss of 40 exposed structural beams in a gym would hurt.... if you dont read prints for a living you can miss alot. I'm sure I'll blow it out of the water and chalk it up to a learning exp..... Might get the next one or the one after that.... Thanks for all the input and the PM's! I've recieved some very solid help:thumbsup:


----------



## HomeGuardPaints (Jan 17, 2008)

Isn't the secret to government work to bid low and then get the contract. and 2 weeks in, change the budget?:thumbup:


----------



## kanadaeh (Oct 4, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> Any of you guys use an outside estimator for larger jobs? I have a 100k sq/ft school I'm putting numbers together on asap. I'm just worried about missing duct work, sprinkler pipes or misc items along the way. Bid off prints only. If so can you recomend someone in the northeast to use. I have 1 but I'm looking for 2 more. Please no estimators that are on the payroll for larger competing companies. Thanks.


My brother lost his shirt on a large school project back in the early 90's. He rushed through the take off and missed some very important details. He almost lost his house but somehow managed to pull through. A tough way to learn. Since then he found an estimator from a large construction firm doing all his take offs as side work. The guy is very reasonable and he knows the construction world and always throws in some advice on projects.


----------



## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

kanadaeh said:


> My brother lost his shirt on a large school project back in the early 90's. He rushed through the take off and missed some very important details. He almost lost his house but somehow managed to pull through. A tough way to learn. Since then he found an estimator from a large construction firm doing all his take offs as side work. The guy is very reasonable and he knows the construction world and always throws in some advice on projects.


Exactly! Especially with a PV work. Your employees will end up making more than you.


----------



## cullybear (Mar 10, 2008)

Does anyone have an estimator. I need one and I am going over the pay aspect of it. I am leaning towards a percentage of profit they bring in rather than percentage of gross. I have no experience in this and would appreciate input
Thanks
Mark


----------

