# Kitchen cabinets



## ExcelPaintingCo

We our currently wrapping up three kitchen cabinet projects. The first one we started is quarter sawn oak, dyed, stained and finished: 











































The second project is a glazed painted finish. I did the painting in the shop and the glazing on site. We are currently glazing.









































Finally we repainted some poorly brushed, dark painted cabinets. All the shop work is done. We started on site today.































I will try to upload some finished, after-shots when everything is all cleaned up.


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## DirtyPainter

Looking good! Some beautiful kitchens in the works, great job.


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## straight_lines

Damn fine work!


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## MikeCalifornia

Awesome man. What tip size do you use, airless?


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## MIZZOU

Awesome work!!!


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## kdpaint

Products? Looks great btw...


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## ExcelPaintingCo

MikeCalifornia said:


> Awesome man. What tip size do you use, airless?


We did all three projects with the 
same 310 ff tip, with a 395. It's probably worn out by now. Started out with a satin oil poly for the oak cabinets, then sprayed 253 primer and advanced on the two painted sets.


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## 97audia4

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> We did all three projects with the
> same 310 ff tip, with a 395. It's probably worn out by now. Started out with a satin oil poly for the oak cabinets, then sprayed 253 primer and advanced on the two painted sets.


what pressure did you spray at with the 395? those cabinets looks amazing


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## ExcelPaintingCo

97audia4 said:


> what pressure did you spray at with the 395? those cabinets looks amazing


I turn up the pressure to the point where the tails disappear. When the tip was new, I had success at a lower pressure. As the tip wore, I had to turn it up a little.


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## South-FL-Painter

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> I turn up the pressure to the point where the tails disappear. When the tip was new, I had success at a lower pressure. As the tip wore, I had to turn it up a little.


Good answer  dont give out the secrets 

Nice looking work! Keep a good work!


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## ExcelPaintingCo

South-FL-Painter said:


> Good answer  dont give out the secrets  Nice looking work! Keep a good work!


I'm honestly not trying to be secretive! I don't have a set pressure to spray for all circumstances. It mostly depends on the viscosity of the material, and the condition of the tip.


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## South-FL-Painter

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> I'm honestly not trying to be secretive! I don't have a set pressure to spray for all circumstances. It mostly depends on the viscosity of the material, and the condition of the tip.


Yup! we all do! There is no same setup ever,unless you spray behr


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## Monstertruck

Those cabinets look sharp!
I especially like the color on the third set, and the sheen looks impeccable.

Do you have a booth set up in the shop?
Do you lay out the doors/drawers and spray horizontal on the sawhorses?

We only do 3-4 cabinet jobs a year and have been experimenting with different set ups. I currently have a small booth in my basement with a spray area and a drying area. We mount hooks in the hinge holes spray the door/drawer in one area and then move it to the drying area where they are hung vertically on 12' long metal poles.

I think both vertical and horizontal drying have their advantages.
Still haven't decided which I prefer.....


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## ExcelPaintingCo

Monstertruck said:


> Those cabinets look sharp! I especially like the color on the third set, and the sheen looks impeccable. Do you have a booth set up in the shop? Do you lay out the doors/drawers and spray horizontal on the sawhorses? We only do 3-4 cabinet jobs a year and have been experimenting with different set ups. I currently have a small booth in my basement with a spray area and a drying area. We mount hooks in the hinge holes spray the door/drawer in one area and then move it to the drying area where they are hung vertically on 12' long metal poles. I think both vertical and horizontal drying have their advantages. Still haven't decided which I prefer.....


I have a spray room, and a separate drying area. I'm still perfecting the system. On all of these sets, I sprayed horizontally. The two main challenges I've found for this are: 1. A very light overspray migrating to the underside of the piece being sprayed. 2. Marking up the uncured paint that rests on the drying racks. I successfully solved both issues by 1. Setting each piece to be sprayed on very thin strips of wood on the spray table. Just enough to protect it from the paint on the table but not so high that spray swirled under. 2. Padding my drying racks. This was especially necessary while spraying with advanced. With one overnight dry, even bare cardboard would leave the slightest marks on the fresh paint. The padding prevented that 100%. 
I probably should develop a vertical spray/rack system. However, I like spraying a heavier final coat than would be possible vertically without the possibility of sagging to occur (especially with advanced and oil poly). I'm always looking to improve though, so any advice is welcome.


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## RH

What did you paint the final set with? Really top notch stuff man!


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## ExcelPaintingCo

Gibberish45 said:


> What did you paint the final set with? Really top notch stuff man!


Advanced satin.


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## woodcoyote

Looks great! 

What are you using for your stain/dye, MLC? 

Great work, keep us posted on new jobs!


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## wje

Top shelf work dude! keep it up, and keep posting!!


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## Monstertruck

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> I have a spray room, and a separate drying area. I'm still perfecting the system. On all of these sets, I sprayed horizontally. The two main challenges I've found for this are: 1. A very light overspray migrating to the underside of the piece being sprayed. 2. Marking up the uncured paint that rests on the drying racks. I successfully solved both issues by 1. Setting each piece to be sprayed on very thin strips of wood on the spray table. Just enough to protect it from the paint on the table but not so high that spray swirled under. 2. Padding my drying racks. This was especially necessary while spraying with advanced. With one overnight dry, even bare cardboard would leave the slightest marks on the fresh paint. The padding prevented that 100%.
> I probably should develop a vertical spray/rack system. However, I like spraying a heavier final coat than would be possible vertically without the possibility of sagging to occur (especially with advanced and oil poly). I'm always looking to improve though, so any advice is welcome.


1. We call that overspray 'wraparound'. Spraying all 6 sides vertical eliminates that issue, but obviously you can't go as heavy. That's one of the tradeoffs.
2. When spraying horizontal and using drying racks, instead of padding we used 4" long screws slightly angled so that only the edge of the head touches the door. It's barley an 1/8" in 4 spots and can be touched up easily after installation. Spray the backs first, then the fronts so it's the back that get's the touch up. It's an idea I 'borrowed' from the rack system that is often advertised on this site. (that's the door rack system. we don't do both sides at once though)

I agree that horizontal provides the best leveling and if we're not pushed for time and space, that is how I like to do it. 
It's amazing once you go vertical just how much material you can pack into a _very very small area._


By the looks of those last 3 kitchens you did, you're the one who's giving advice to me!:notworthy:

I especially like the 'finger' pic! LOL


btw What color was the primer in that 3rd set of pics?
I like that even better than the finish coat.
I'm looking forward to the finished pics of that kitchen!!!


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## 97audia4

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> I turn up the pressure to the point where the tails disappear. When the tip was new, I had success at a lower pressure. As the tip wore, I had to turn it up a little.


I have experimented with my 395 but never really got cabinets looking like that before those look excellent.


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## mudbone

South-FL-Painter said:


> Yup! we all do! There is no same setup ever,unless you spray behr


 Bet cabinets are bare after that fine job!


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## ExcelPaintingCo

Here's a picture if the spray table:









Just barely propped up enough to stay out of the overspray on the table. IMO horizontally is the highest quality way to spray advanced. Especially with a deep base color. 

Here is a backside that shows no "wraparound" overspray: 









This is the pressure setting I ended up with a partially blown out tip:









I stopped by the job site today right before they primed, the painter I had working on it went a little overboard sanding IMO.










Keep in mind these boxes were originally stained and lacquered, then poorly brush primed and painted.


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## ridesarize

Nice looking work. Prep looks good. Its nice when a detail job on a larger scale turns out successful. 
I am wondering since I'm new on here if showing work in new threads is ok for anyone or more for you established members? I have some cabinet pics that will be seen sometime here, showing my hanging method.


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## DirtyPainter

ridesarize said:


> Nice looking work. Prep looks good. Its nice when a detail job on a larger scale turns out successful. I am wondering since I'm new on here if showing work in new threads is ok for anyone or more for you established members? I have some cabinet pics that will be seen sometime here, showing my hanging method.


I was wondering the same thing. I'm working on some cabinets along with a full int. repaint now and wanted to show pictures of the phases of the cabinets in hopes of getting some constructive feedback. Most of these dudes are probably annoyed by me already though, so posting might be pointless.


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## ExcelPaintingCo

ridesarize said:


> Nice looking work. Prep looks good. Its nice when a detail job on a larger scale turns out successful. I am wondering since I'm new on here if showing work in new threads is ok for anyone or more for you established members? I have some cabinet pics that will be seen sometime here, showing my hanging method.


Please feel free to post your pics in this thread or create a new. I always appreciate seeing other setups.


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## wje

ridesarize said:


> Nice looking work. Prep looks good. Its nice when a detail job on a larger scale turns out successful.
> I am wondering since I'm new on here if showing work in new threads is ok for anyone or more for you established members? I have some cabinet pics that will be seen sometime here, showing my hanging method.


I think a lot of us here enjoy seeing what fellow painters are up to! Please do post picture threads as often as possible. Sometimes you think you may have a perfect system, and the guys and gals on here may offer input to even tweak a system to make it even more efficient!


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## ridesarize

I'll show a pic of some buillt-ins we did in advance. We made a work area in the living room, virtually airtight from the rest of home. We had a door to enter into room and a window to vent out air. This wan't the most ideal configuration for the set up but it was a sort of skinny area and we had baseboards to pre paint too so I made a long hanging set up instead of short. We use 2.5 or 3 inch screws into hinge holes carefully. Wrap 14-16 gauge wire around threads of one screw (about 1.5 inch from cabinet surface) so it wont slip. Crimped the other end so it would hold some real weight yet slip right off so I can hang a door while it is wet. I spray each door in one corner of room (far right) while holding from wire. It doesn't swing really. I tuck my feet under scrap floor paper or shoes get caked. Spraying is such a snap. Then hang it while wet and grab another. I usually use a 2x3 on edge instead of 2x4, the 2x3 does not sag when on edge.


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## Monstertruck

ridesarize said:


> I'll show a pic of some buillt-ins we did in advance. We made a work area in the living room, virtually airtight from the rest of home. We had a door to enter into room and a window to vent out air. This wan't the most ideal configuration for the set up but it was a sort of skinny area and we had baseboards to pre paint too so I made a long hanging set up instead of short. We use 2.5 or 3 inch screws into hinge holes carefully. Wrap 14-16 gauge wire around threads of one screw (about 1.5 inch from cabinet surface) so it wont slip. Crimped the other end so it would hold some real weight yet slip right off so I can hang a door while it is wet. I spray each door in one corner of room (far right) while holding from wire. It doesn't swing really. I tuck my feet under scrap floor paper or shoes get caked. Spraying is such a snap. Then hang it while wet and grab another. I usually use a 2x3 on edge instead of 2x4, the 2x3 does not sag when on edge.


That looks like a sweet portable set up!
In my shop I use 1.5" x 12' steel pipe for the rods, 1 above the other.
Saves a bit on floor space.
I suppose you could improvise even further on the portable set up by making "trees" to accomodate your pole set up. But hey, why bother, what you got goin' on seems to be working great!

For the 'wire' we use old paint can handles. Very rugged yet malleable. Single strand, no spinning.


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## ExcelPaintingCo

ridesarize said:


> I'll show a pic of some buillt-ins we did in advance. We made a work area in the living room, virtually airtight from the rest of home. We had a door to enter into room and a window to vent out air. This wan't the most ideal configuration for the set up but it was a sort of skinny area and we had baseboards to pre paint too so I made a long hanging set up instead of short. We use 2.5 or 3 inch screws into hinge holes carefully. Wrap 14-16 gauge wire around threads of one screw (about 1.5 inch from cabinet surface) so it wont slip. Crimped the other end so it would hold some real weight yet slip right off so I can hang a door while it is wet. I spray each door in one corner of room (far right) while holding from wire. It doesn't swing really. I tuck my feet under scrap floor paper or shoes get caked. Spraying is such a snap. Then hang it while wet and grab another. I usually use a 2x3 on edge instead of 2x4, the 2x3 does not sag when on edge.


 I wear my caked shoes with pride!


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## ridesarize

Monstertruck said:


> That looks like a sweet portable set up!
> In my shop I use 1.5" x 12' steel pipe for the rods, 1 above the other.
> Saves a bit on floor space.
> I suppose you could improvise even further on the portable set up by making "trees" to accomodate your pole set up. But hey, why bother, what you got goin' on seems to be working great!
> 
> For the 'wire' we use old paint can handles. Very rugged yet malleable. Single strand, no spinning.


Very cool, do you use hinge holes and put screws in, or little hooks, or...?
Oh I use single strand too, when I let go of wire it stays shaped, 5$ roll lasts quite a while.


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## Monstertruck

ridesarize said:


> Very cool, do you use hinge holes and put screws in, or little hooks, or...?
> Oh I use single strand too, when I let go of wire it stays shaped, 5$ roll lasts quite a while.


Hinge holes and screws.
I've seen the hooks advertised but for the # of kitchens I do /year it just didn't make sense to purchase them.


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## bbair

I'm not a fan of painting oak, but here's the last one I did. I had to do a light skim on the doors and back rolled my primer in the boxes. Bin primer and Kem aqua topcoat sprayed with a cup gun. Nice work to the OP, by the way.

Sent from my iPhone using PaintTalk


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## Danahy

bbair said:


> I'm not a fan of painting oak, but here's the last one I did. I had to do a light skim on the doors and back rolled my primer in the boxes. Bin primer and Kem aqua topcoat sprayed with a cup gun. Nice work to the OP, by the way. Sent from my iPhone using PaintTalk


Beauuuty!


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## ExcelPaintingCo

bbair said:


> I'm not a fan of painting oak, but here's the last one I did. I had to do a light skim on the doors and back rolled my primer in the boxes. Bin primer and Kem aqua topcoat sprayed with a cup gun. Nice work to the OP, by the way. Sent from my iPhone using PaintTalk


Nice clean Job site! Looking good.


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## ExcelPaintingCo

We finished up the dark painted cabinets today.


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## ridesarize

Looking good.


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## Monstertruck

bbair said:


> I'm not a fan of painting oak, but here's the last one I did. I had to do a light skim on the doors and back rolled my primer in the boxes. Bin primer and Kem aqua topcoat sprayed with a cup gun. Nice work to the OP, by the way.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PaintTalk


Skim coat doors??? Yikes!
What product did you use for that?

How do you like that style of rack?
If I remember right, you spray one side at a time and it's very portable, flexible, and has a small footprint on site/in the van. I've been weighing the pros and cons of 3 rack systems for several years now and just can't decide. They all have their pros & cons. There's a nice system for full size doors starting at about $2500 but it doesn't handle cabinet doors. The other 2 systems accomodate both cabinets and full size doors but require extensive piece handling for each step of coating. Perhaps I should just bread down and get one of each.:whistling2:

Seems odd to install oak cabinets and then paint them a dark color. The sheen/color combo seems to accentuate the grain. It should set off those counter tops nicely!


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## wje

Everyone who has posted in this thread has done some beautiful work. Keep it up!


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## bbair

Monstertruck said:


> Skim coat doors??? Yikes!
> What product did you use for that?
> 
> How do you like that style of rack?
> If I remember right, you spray one side at a time and it's very portable, flexible, and has a small footprint on site/in the van. I've been weighing the pros and cons of 3 rack systems for several years now and just can't decide. They all have their pros & cons. There's a nice system for full size doors starting at about $2500 but it doesn't handle cabinet doors. The other 2 systems accomodate both cabinets and full size doors but require extensive piece handling for each step of coating. Perhaps I should just bread down and get one of each.:whistling2:
> 
> Seems odd to install oak cabinets and then paint them a dark color. The sheen/color combo seems to accentuate the grain. It should set off those counter tops nicely!


Yeah, I skimmed all the door fronts with crawfords. I had some issues with the grain (long story) but I needed to fix it so that was the solution. I made sure to sand it all back off except for what was in the grain so they don't have a skimmed look. 

Actually, if you're interested in a system for entry doors, I use two things. Door deckers, which can be found at speed painting.com, are excellent and worth every cent. You can paint both sides and stack them without touching. I prefer to use them when doing Clearcoat or the occasional painted door. For a house of painted doors, I prefer to stand them up accordion style by nailing those metal plates you can get to protect electrical wires in framing. If you spray em standing, it goes a lot faster. 

When it comes to racks, the erecta rack is nice for work on-site. Get the additional 60" bars or you'll fill it up too quick. I would probably build my own rig for a shop, that way you can stack things starting at the top and working your way down. It's great on the job site though and super portable.

Sent from my iPhone using PaintTalk


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## Monstertruck

bbair said:


> Yeah, I skimmed all the door fronts with crawfords. I had some issues with the grain (long story) but I needed to fix it so that was the solution. I made sure to sand it all back off except for what was in the grain so they don't have a skimmed look.
> 
> Actually, if you're interested in a system for entry doors, I use two things. Door deckers, which can be found at speed painting.com, are excellent and worth every cent. You can paint both sides and stack them without touching. I prefer to use them when doing Clearcoat or the occasional painted door. For a house of painted doors, I prefer to stand them up accordion style by nailing those metal plates you can get to protect electrical wires in framing. If you spray em standing, it goes a lot faster.
> 
> When it comes to racks, the erecta rack is nice for work on-site. Get the additional 60" bars or you'll fill it up too quick. I would probably build my own rig for a shop, that way you can stack things starting at the top and working your way down. It's great on the job site though and super portable.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PaintTalk


Thanks for answering my questions.
Systems for cabinets and doors fascinate me for some reason.....
I've considered both the deckers and the racks as well as the Rack n Paint.
My favorite is the Roto Finish but have yet to pull the trigger on that one.
I kick myself whenever we catch a project that has 20 plus doors....
There used to be a similar system on the Rockler site which was for cabinets, but that has since disappeared.


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## ExcelPaintingCo

Here are some after shots if the glazed cabinets:


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## Monstertruck

:notworthy: Very nice!
I've never had a call for the glazed look. Do you get many?


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## ExcelPaintingCo

Monstertruck said:


> :notworthy: Very nice! I've never had a call for the glazed look. Do you get many?


No, I brought in a pro to do the glazing, she's in action in one of the pictures. Neither myself, or anyone on my crew has any experience with it. It's difficult to translate through my poor photography, but the effect really looks nice in person.


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## ptbopainter

Cabinets look incredible! 
:thumbup:


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## straight_lines

Hard to get any work done around her. :brows:


Oh and nice kitchen..


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## Schmidt & Co.

straight_lines said:


> Hard to get any work done around her. :brows:
> 
> 
> Oh and nice kitchen..


Yea, that'd be a tough one. :whistling2:


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## Monstertruck

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> No, I brought in a pro to do the glazing, she's in action in one of the pictures. Neither myself, or anyone on my crew has any experience with it. It's difficult to translate through my poor photography, but the effect really looks nice in person.


 I can get a glimpse of it in pics 4 & 5, thanks.


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## RCP

Beautiful!:thumbup:


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## DeanV

Don't you clear coat over the glaze?


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## ExcelPaintingCo

DeanV said:


> Don't you clear coat over the glaze?


Apparently a protective clear coat is not necessary with the type of glaze she used. I did my own scrub testing on a sample door we mocked up for color/glaze approval and it held up fine.


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## DeanV

Cool. That would be a good option to have.


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## Damon T

Awesome work George! Some really nice looking kitchens!


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## ExcelPaintingCo

I was out at this job today doing some pre-punch list touch-ups and snapped some pics of the cabinets in a close to finished setting.











The butler's pantry is pretty much done, they are still working on some stone and electrical work in the main kitchen. This is the first kitchen we have done that requires a ladder to reach the upper-upper cabinets.


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## Monstertruck

:thumbup::notworthy:

Wow! Those look nice!

The finish looks fantastic with that hardware.


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## woodcoyote

Very nice looking. What kind of wood is that? It looks like it has a lot of movement to the plywood and some of the doors too.


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## ExcelPaintingCo

woodcoyote said:


> Very nice looking. What kind of wood is that? It looks like it has a lot of movement to the plywood and some of the doors too.


 It's quarter sawn or "tiger" oak. Yes it does change depending on the direction of the light hitting it. The homeowner wanted to emphasize the variable grain. To achieve a more "loud" grain, I didn't water-pop the wood prior to dye application. That allowed for a more uneven absorption rate of the dye depending on the porosity of the underlying grain and helped the tiger effect pop.


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## woodcoyote

Nice, yeah looking at it now you can tell it's quartersawn oak. Looks good.


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## ridesarize

bbair said:


> For a house of painted doors, I prefer to stand them up accordion style by nailing those metal plates you can get to protect electrical wires in framing. If you spray em standing, it goes a lot faster.
> 
> I would probably build my own rig for a shop, that way you can stack things starting at the top and working your way down.


I like hearing other systems and rack ideas too. 
My crib system for shop work or on site is like the erecta rack, but with 2x4 blocks (spacers), and 54 inch stickers, something decent at about 1- 1.25 inch thick. Just put 3 - 2x4's through chop saw to make bout 100 blocks, keep em in large garbage can. keep stickers in different garbage can or holder.. I don't spray anything on the rack system either but move pieces to it as needed. I use this set up for pre-finishing trim, siding, decking, etc. Boards pictured are Ipe, several thousand lbs sitting on each rack. second rack are 20 footers. Oh and when doing this system, just have a co worker help handle boards, one person on each end so no reaching over rack to put those up alone. Work from saw horses, move to rack.

Did you see my painting tip or pics of joist hangers to hold your accordion door set up? 2x6 joist hangers just spread to beyond 90 degrees work but 2x8 hangers give more strength and you can space doors a little more to give room to shoot em. I use 1 inch drywall screws through those.


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## Monstertruck

That's a ton of IPE!

For some reason, I'm fascinated with racks and systems for doors/trim as well. I used to use strapping along the tops of the accordion set up and 2x4s on the bottom (not fastened) to keep the doors off the drops. On our current project with limited space, I'm using 16" sq. plywood on the top and have 4 doors standing in an X pattern.

I prefer systems in which all sides can be painted at once and minimum handling is needed after set up.

Am looking to purchase the Rack n Paint by Mr. Longarm.
Looks like a good system for small projects with just a few doors.
I still kick myself for not purchasing the Cabinet-Pro Panel Finishing system when it was available.


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## ridesarize

Monstertruck said:


> That's a ton of IPE!
> 
> For some reason, I'm fascinated with racks and systems for doors/trim as well. I used to use strapping along the tops of the accordion set up and 2x4s on the bottom (not fastened) to keep the doors off the drops. On our current project with limited space, I'm using 16" sq. plywood on the top and have 4 doors standing in an X pattern.
> 
> I prefer systems in which all sides can be painted at once and minimum handling is needed after set up.
> 
> Am looking to purchase the Rack n Paint by Mr. Longarm.
> Looks like a good system for small projects with just a few doors.
> I still kick myself for not purchasing the Cabinet-Pro Panel Finishing system when it was available.


I have to look into these products you speak of. I like to get all sides at once too. The ipe was done on all sides too(bottom don't matter for marks though). I will show other cab pics later( my hanging method)


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## Monstertruck

ridesarize said:


> I have to look into these products you speak of. I like to get all sides at once too. The ipe was done on all sides too(bottom don't matter for marks though). I will show other cab pics later( my hanging method)


 I just pulled the trigger on 2 Rack N Paints.:thumbup:
1 used and 1 new.
Now I won't get a job with doors for 6 months!!!


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## msucro

Is the Kem Aqua just the white or can it be tinted to the very dark brown also?


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## sharrard

msucro said:


> Is the Kem Aqua just the white or can it be tinted to the very dark brown also?


They will sell you a 5 gall pail of clear, kem aqua clear, you can have the 5er tinted or pour out into single cans and have that tinted as required.

It works but takes many coats ,,, 

What are others doing / using for solid dark lacquers i would like to know? 

I used to blow BM advance but i got hooked on the waterbased lacquers and the ability to do jobs a lot faster. Less work, cheaper materials and a harder finish - like why would you not do that ? .. but still a lot of guys blowing Advance for cabinets. The lacquers look better, less bulky of a finish and easier to work with but, you have to spray everything - no brush and roll, nothing.


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## sharrard

These cabinets were done with Kem Aqua Clear tinted to BM Classic Brown. Two coats of Kem Aqua Surfacer (white).

Sharrard Painting and Fine Finishing


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## putlotson

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> Advanced satin.


Nice work. Are you referring to Benjamin Moore "Advance" Satin?


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## ExcelPaintingCo

putlotson said:


> Nice work. Are you referring to Benjamin Moore "Advance" Satin?


yes sir!


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## putlotson

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> yes sir!


Thanks Excel. I've been using Advance since it came out. Initially I loved it but then I got into the darker colors and the high gloss. Looks great at first but long after application it remain far too soft for handrails and cabinets. At least this is my experience. No problem on crowns or areas not being touched. For example I recently sprayed a fairly expensive 2 color stairwell. The client requested the handrail in black gloss. On the last day I told him not to touch the rail for a week to let it cure. 15 minutes after that this huge guy was gripping the rail to get up the stairs! I could imagine how the rail was going to look 6 months down the road. The best solution I could think of was to go back and clear coat the rail. After a month I clear coated it with Benjamin Moore High Gloss "Stays Clear". Wow! What a difference! It not only increased the Advance gloss level by about 25% but it turned the 30 day old and very soft Advance into a hard glass like finish giving it depth. I didn't sand before or spray the gloss Advance. I just brushed it on. After that I highly recommend this over Advance for any medium to dark colors in areas that get service. A month after that I went back for something else. The customer's wife was so happy with it she gave me a hug and slipped $40 into my shirt pocket! 
Here are some pictures. Take a close look at the sample I made and make one up for yourself. Pictures 1. Before 2. A sample I made up a month after. IYou could scratch the Advance easily with your fingernail. The entire sample was scratched up as you can see above the tape. Below the tape is one brush coat of Stays Clear without sanding. all of the scratches are completely gone. 3 & 4 are the After pictures.


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## putlotson

putlotson said:


> Thanks Excel. I've been using Advance since it came out. Initially I loved it but then I got into the darker colors and the high gloss. Looks great at first but long after application it remain far too soft for handrails and cabinets. At least this is my experience. No problem on crowns or areas not being touched. For example I recently sprayed a fairly expensive 2 color stairwell. The client requested the handrail in black gloss. On the last day I told him not to touch the rail for a week to let it cure. 15 minutes after that this huge guy was gripping the rail to get up the stairs! I could imagine how the rail was going to look 6 months down the road. The best solution I could think of was to go back and clear coat the rail. After a month I clear coated it with Benjamin Moore High Gloss "Stays Clear". Wow! What a difference! It not only increased the Advance gloss level by about 25% but it turned the 30 day old and very soft Advance into a hard glass like finish giving it depth. I didn't sand before or spray the gloss Advance. I just brushed it on. After that I highly recommend this over Advance for any medium to dark colors in areas that get service. A month after that I went back for something else. The customer's wife was so happy with it she gave me a hug and slipped $40 into my shirt pocket!
> Here are some pictures. Take a close look at the sample I made and make one up for yourself. Pictures 1. Before 2. A sample I made up a month after. IYou could scratch the Advance easily with your fingernail. The entire sample was scratched up as you can see above the tape. Below the tape is one brush coat of Stays Clear without sanding. all of the scratches are completely gone. 3 & 4 are the After pictures.


OOps I meant I didn't sand before or spray the "Stays Clear". It just got bushed. (The Advance was all sprayed)


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## ExcelPaintingCo

putlotson said:


> OOps I meant I didn't sand before or spray the "Stays Clear". It just got bushed. (The Advance was all sprayed)


 very nice! And it's nice to know that increases the gloss value of advanced as well as make it stronger. I can attest to the hardness of Stays Clear. I'm currently using it for the finish on these white washed alder cabinets. I tried to scratch a nail over a sample board after an overnight dry and I didn't leave a mark. 









Good stuff!


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## putlotson

Unfortunately BM stores in Canada are privately owned and owners don't have the product knowledge the manufacturer owned stores have. (No disrespect intended) I asked about the compatibility of the two products before starting and they never . It's just a whole different way they do business.) They'd never heard of either the scratching issues with Advance or any need to clear coat the finish coat. I never considered "Stays Clear" on a rail. I'm almost 60 and Italian. .. ;} I've used Stays Clear for faux finishing. In Vancouver you have to be very careful with it. If the layers underneath aren't fully gassed out it will cloud and stay milky. Maybe for a month. Even if the layers are gassed out it might rain like crazy the day you apply it and you have a similar problem which usually clears after a couple of weeks if the humidity drops. Very hard to explain that to a client though. In this case it turned out to be the answer to Advance's obvious problem. I may go Rambo on something of my own and blend a quart of Stays Clear into a gallon of Advance before I spray it. How about that? Let me know if you try it before I do.


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## P.Bthepainter

Great job, could you tell me what kind of a sprayer you used thanks


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## jw129943

Wow - that's pretty compelling! The dry time really stinks with the Advance, even when I try to give plenty of time before reinstalling the doors, I still sometimes run into problems. Has anyone tried the Stays Clear in a satin finish vs. the gloss over Advance? You're giving me something to think about here!


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## Phinnster

Wonder if you could box stays clear in the advance ?


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## Damon T

Phinnster said:


> Wonder if you could box stays clear in the advance ?



Would not recommend. 
I'm curious about the top coating with clear. Always seemed like a lot of extra work but couid be a good experiment.


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## Jmayspaint

I'm curious about the glaze that doesn't need a top coat. That would be extremely handy.


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## ExcelPaintingCo

Jmayspaint said:


> I'm curious about the glaze that doesn't need a top coat. That would be extremely handy.


It's funny that you bring this up. I was just over there a week ago looking at some more work. The homeowner showed me how she cleaned her kitchen with a wash cloth/warm water and a bar of ivory soap. I noticed a little glaze transferring to the washcloth. It didn't happen with warm water only, but with the ivory soap it lifted. So I'm definitely thinking a clear coat will be necessary for long term durability and I'm exploring the possibilities of going back over everything with a waterborne urethane. Just like Mom's advise, "if it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is!".


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## Tonyg

I tried the Stays Clear over Aura a few years back and it yellowed in the corners. The Aura had been dried a day or two and the only thing my rep could deduce was that it was possible the Aura needed to be cured first.


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## jw129943

Tonyg said:


> I tried the Stays Clear over Aura a few years back and it yellowed in the corners. The Aura had been dried a day or two and the only thing my rep could deduce was that it was possible the Aura needed to be cured first.


Did you use the Aura on cabinets? If the paint needs to cure before applying the Stays Clear, given Advance's cure time, this could take awhile...


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## Tonyg

jw129943 said:


> Did you use the Aura on cabinets? If the paint needs to cure before applying the Stays Clear, given Advance's cure time, this could take awhile...


Yes, it's been a 5-6 years. I had yellowing in the grooves/corners where the build up was a little heavier. Prayed the StaysClear and actually looked really good until it dried. Don't know if this was an anomaly or if the dry time was really a factor. I would think 24hrs of dry time would be sufficient since the product has a 1hr recoat time.


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