# 16 More Contractors Fined



## Dean CRCNA

http://www.epa.gov/compliance/resources/cases/civil/tsca/lrrprule.html

Settlements:

- Alliance Contracting & Design, LLC of Bay City, Mich.
- Dasa Properties LLC of Buffalo, N. Y. 
- DiGiorgi Roofing and Siding, Inc. of Beacon Falls, Conn.
- Exterior Images of Derry, N.H. 
- Hometown Painting, Inc. of Warrenville, Ill. 
- Kindred Painting, LLC of Dover, N.H. 
- Leanza Painting Contractors, Inc. of Morristown, N. J.
- Mac Stringer Painting and Staining of Ontario, N. Y. 
- Scheffler Painting, LLC of Trenton, Mich. 
- Spartan Painting, Inc. of Haslett, Mich. 
- Sunshine Home Improvement, LLC of Lenexa, Kan. 
- Universal Remodeling & Building, LLC of Stratford, Conn. 
- Wildwood Apartments, LLC of Jackson, Mich.

Complaints:

- Collegiate Entrepreneurs, Inc. of Braintree, Mass.
- PZ Painting of Springfield, N.J. 
- Kachina Contractor Solutions of Elkins Park, Penn.


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## premierpainter

Man, I know two of those guys. One is a hack and the other is high quality. Go figure


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## Dean CRCNA

premierpainter said:


> Man, I know two of those guys. One is a hack and the other is high quality. Go figure


It's got to be embarrassing to have your name out there as an illegal contractor that poisons little children.

Oh well.


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## BrushJockey

Really Dean. That's even low for you. 
Maybe they had an error of omission. 

I love it when fear rules! Particularly when nothing is really known!


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## Dean CRCNA

I deal with illegal contractors that poison children on a regular basis when doing EBL Investigations. Maybe I'm blunt, straight talking, non-politically correct. Never saw it as low, but am willing to be corrected.


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## MikeCalifornia

Holy smokes, scroll down to Collegiate Entrepeneurs, inc. Their penalty is $37,500 for each of the 101 violations. That is huge!!


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## vermontpainter

Dean

Of the companies that are getting busted, what percentage would you say went through the certification?


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## PatsPainting

A little ridiculous the way your pawning this off Dean. As if the contractors are putting rat poison in candy and trying to give to the little kids. I'm guessing this is personal issue for you as maybe when you were a kid you used to gnaw on windows sills or somethings and had to repeat 9th grade.

I'm all for this rule, but even as of today there are many who have no clue about it. They did a horrible job getting the word out and promoting the thing.

Pat


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## RCP

Looking at the violations, most were for not being certified, not maintaining records or proper signs. Very few were actual "work" violations, the worst one was an apartment complex, not a painting contractor. Surprised to see Kachina, they are RRP Trainers!


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## Dean CRCNA

vermontpainter said:


> Dean
> 
> Of the companies that are getting busted, what percentage would you say went through the certification?


EPA actively audits trainers and instructors. Other than that, they rely on reported violations from the general public. If the general public reports a Lead Safe Certified Firm, than it is looked into. If the general public reports a illegal contractor, than it is looked into.


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## Dean CRCNA

PatsPainting said:


> ... but even as of today there are many who have no clue about it. They did a horrible job getting the word out and promoting the thing.
> 
> Pat


I think what gets to me is the willingness of contractors to do things illegally and unethically. Example: All members of PDCA have heard about RRP, because PDCA has told them. The same with NARI, NAHB and many other contractor organizations. Around 80% of these contractors who have heard about RRP have decided to work illegally and unethically.


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## PatsPainting

Dean CRCNA said:


> I think what gets to me is the willingness of contractors to do things illegally and unethically. Example: All members of PDCA have heard about RRP, because PDCA has told them. The same with NARI, NAHB and many other contractor organizations. Around 80% of these contractors who have heard about RRP have decided to work illegally and unethically.


Don't think its really to hard to figure out Dean, if the so called 80% know about it and then turn around and disregard the rule there must be a reason right? I'm guessing you might think its lazy and they want to increase profit. Or maybe you might think they enjoy poisoning little children as your previous posts suggests. 

It's not the greatest economy right now, most home owners really could careless and if they can save a few bucks then they will by hiring a guy who will skip the rrp rules. Which leaves the guys who do follow the rules in a bad situation where they are loosing jobs left and right to where they might not have much a of a choice other to join the non compliant group. It's either that or loose their business, house or what ever.

I really wish they just did a better job at educating the public on this. I think they would have much more success at the real goal which is to produce much cleaner and safer environments for our children.

Pat


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## ewingpainting.net

rrp cert is s joke, particularly here in California. there is like 2 enforcing this in like 5 states, like Utah, az, Calif. not to mention that the cert doesn't mean jack to Calif law. 

I love it when someone pulls our their stupid card and act like they got higher education, more like special edd.


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## Epoxy Pro

I usually throw very high prices on lead houses, we are only a 2 person company and can not afford to be bogged down by lead houses, I am licensed. I always do the lead test right in front for the home owner and explain to them the process and what happens if we don't do the process right, I have actually had customers just re side their home as the prices were close enough to justify the cost and the lead is completely gone (carpenters job not mine).


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## Dean CRCNA

Pat,

_a story to relate to how I see this_

A couple of weeks ago, I was watching around 8 roofers on a 12/15 (looked like 12/18) pitch 2 story home. They had zero safety features. 

Now you can tell me how hard it is to sell a job to a client if the additional cost of safety was added into it. You can explain to me how bad the economy is and work is rare. You can tell me about a 70 year old roofer, who never fell off a roof during his work career.

But in my mind, the biz owner is tempting fate and one of his subs/employees will pay the price sooner or later. Will the biz owner enjoy watching one of the guys fall off? No. Will the biz owner feel bad? Most likely. Is the biz owner evil? Not in my mind.

However, the biz owner is exchanging money for safety. The biz owner is operating illegally. The biz owner is unethical. Ultimately, the biz owner cut back on safety, so he could get the job and so he could earn an income. He did it for money. IMO


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## Steve Richards

PatsPainting said:


> I'm all for this rule, but even as of today there are many who have no clue about it. They did a horrible job getting the word out and promoting the thing.





PatsPainting said:


> I really wish they just did a better job at educating the public on this. I think they would have much more success at the real goal which is to produce much cleaner and safer environments for our children.


Agreed x2


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## daArch

I can count on one hand the number of painters that I PERSONALLY know in my little circle who follow RRP - actually I can count them all on ZERO hands.

Every contractor - painter, plumber, remodeler, etc that I see on a site or anywhere else I ask about RRP. Approx 80% know about it (and 100% know after I talk to them) and NONE of them follow the rules at all.

I inform homeowners about it when I tell them the room needs painting before I paper. I can not confirm one has had the work done by an RRP compliant firm, and they all look suspiciously like it was NOT done. 

I guess some of the hacks get around it by NOT sanding the surface before painting, they literally just slap the new paint on. I know because when the new paint rubs off when I wash my paper, the underlaying surface is unsanded. 

I hope the powers that be continue to catch and fine the guilty as that will spread the word quicker than all other efforts.


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## Susan

ewingpainting.net said:


> rrp cert is s joke, particularly here in California. there is like 2 enforcing this in like 5 states, like Utah, az, Calif. not to mention that the cert doesn't mean jack to Calif law.
> 
> I love it when someone pulls our their stupid card and act like they got higher education, more like special edd.


There is green money to be made with encapsulation. The classes are relatively inexpensive, and my understanding is that there is a shortage of qualified contractors to handle the workload. 

I don't think it's a joke. I think it's a business opportunity.


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## Ultimate

PatsPainting said:


> I really wish they just did a better job at educating the public on this. I think they would have much more success at the real goal which is to produce much cleaner and safer environments for our children.
> 
> Pat


I agree with this. PDCA among other venues has done a good enough job geting painters aware. I really doubt there are many that have not heard of this yet. Homeowners, if they were to be enlightened in a bigger way would not hurt. Sure there are fines for the contractors. What about the homeowners? I bet after a few of them got fined, there would be a lot less of them shopping for the guy that will be willing to not comply rrp. To see a potential paint job increase in price 30k+ for not complying evens out the playing field a bit between customer and contractor. Do it for the kids.


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## daArch

HOC,

Are you saying that home owners should be made responsible for the health and well being of their own children ???

that's not the Amerikan way anymore :whistling2:

KIDDING !!!

Seriously, why the FROCK are HO's not made responsible? If I have a well drilled (which I did last summer) I need to have it inspected and tested before allowing my family to drink it. 


if I endanger my child by irresponsible behavior, Social Services will be knocking on my door. They are talking now about legislating parents smoking cigarettes in cars when a child is on board (I happen to agree with that).

So wahy are HO's NOT responsible for dangerous work practices on their homes?


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## Roamer

The client should bear responsibility for a portion of the fines. More contractors would be certified as a result and our nation's children would be safer. That would be the smart thing to do. 

Frankly, they'd be better off spending all the money of enforcement battling the real dangers that our children face like illicit drugs.

Btw, the first two contractors on the list of 'settlements' are certified contractors. I didn't check the rest. Good to know that I circled a target on my back by getting certified and thus making it easier to track me down. Too hard for the EPA to enforce their rules on the un-certified, I guess.


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## Rbriggs82

I'm certified but I haven't gotten around to registering the new biz yet. I wonder what would happen if I did a job without my biz being certified but I still am.


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## johnthepainter

this is why i dont disturb surfaces anymore. the homeowner and his buddies or fellas from church powerwash and scrape,,,,,,then i show up and just apply paint and caulk, its all in writting,,,and it works out great for the customer and me,,,,everyone wins.

ill even loan them my powerwasher and ladders if it helps close the deal.

its all in writting,,,,they save thousands this way.

im like a super hero!


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## DeanV

Slow season here again H.F.?


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## johnthepainter

this slow season has lasted over 2 years now,,,lol.


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## kmp

RRP is a scam.The only people that benefit from it are lawyers, bean counters.and gives jobs to people that cant make in the real world.


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## Auolona

premierpainter said:


> Man, I know two of those guys. One is a hack and the other is high quality. Go figure


They have to go public with those names. It hurts big companies not small guys.


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## premierpainter

I love how the fines drop for smaller companies. So a company that can afford a bigger fine, gets a bigger fine....that is crap.


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## Susan

premierpainter said:


> I love how the fines drop for smaller companies. So a company that can afford a bigger fine, gets a bigger fine....that is crap.



It's not crap. In that regard, it is similar to taxes. That is American.


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## johnthepainter

This rrp crap does not have to affect you,,
It just requires communication with the customer, and a few signatures.


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## Gough

premierpainter said:


> I love how the fines drop for smaller companies. So a company that can afford a bigger fine, gets a bigger fine....that is crap.


I think there is also the reality that you can't get blood from a stone.


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## Gough

high fibre said:


> This rrp crap does not have to affect you,,
> It just requires communication with the customer, and a few signatures.


What you have described in your previous posts would be operating too close to the line for our comfort. Just because you've got it all in writing doesn't mean you can't get hung out to dry.

For our own piece of mind, we've found it easier to follow both the letter and the spirit of the law.


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## Bender

Dean CRCNA said:


> It's got to be embarrassing to have your name out there as an illegal contractor that poisons little children.
> 
> Oh well.


:thumbup:


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## ComRemodel

HouseOfColor said:


> Sure there are fines for the contractors. What about the homeowners? I bet after a few of them got fined, there would be a lot less of them shopping for the guy that will be willing to not comply rrp.


I'll bet after a few homeowners get fined and word gets around you are going to see the public waking up and letting them know what it really thinks about RRP. After some litigation watch how fast an un-conditional opt-out provision is implemented.


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## dg1267

daArch said:


> HOC,
> 
> Are you saying that home owners should be made responsible for the health and well being of their own children ???
> 
> that's not the Amerikan way anymore :whistling2:
> 
> KIDDING !!!
> 
> Seriously, why the FROCK are HO's not made responsible? If I have a well drilled (which I did last summer) I need to have it inspected and tested before allowing my family to drink it.
> 
> 
> if I endanger my child by irresponsible behavior, Social Services will be knocking on my door. They are talking now about legislating parents smoking cigarettes in cars when a child is on board (I happen to agree with that).
> 
> So wahy are HO's NOT responsible for dangerous work practices on their homes?


Because there are enough of the HO's to vote it out of existence and then Dean wouldn't have a job. :yes:


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## Dean CRCNA

dg1267 said:


> Because there are enough of the HO's to vote it out of existence and then Dean wouldn't have a job. :yes:


Most of my work is working with lead poisoned children and adults that were poisoned by contractors. So, getting rid of RRP would actually be good job security.


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## johnthepainter

Poisoned by the manufacturer.


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## johnthepainter

I still apply this stuff,,,,its great!


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## mikemb72

"Lead White" was a staple in paints going back many centuries. It may have been toxic but apparently it did a good job as the basic white pigment in paints, not to mention all the other uses of lead in all its forms throughout the Industrial Revolution and going back into antiquity.


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## Toolnut

I'm all for RRP we need more government in our lives. give the EPA more power, hell china needs the jobs. I know lets blame a whole industry and contractors for poisoning little children and in the process we can make millions from it. Wow if we taught the kids not to eat paint we wouldn't be able to make anything. And I know we'll make the stupid law so it will cost everyone tons of money to comply then we can catch more of them and make more money. GOD BLESS AMERICA.


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## nEighter

it is funny Dean how a homeowner picks a home that is older, then everyone else is on the hook for their choice, or hell.. the EPA for ever certifying that lead was okay to have in paint to begin with. 

I KNOW the epa is a joke as much as "global warming" is. It is an overbloated government agency that will implode from its size.

But back to the lead debate.. so a building can leach lead from its paint for 30yrs.. and the second a contractor steps on site it is their on the hook for the mess.

Yeah.. A JOKE.


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## ligboozer

high fibre said:


> Poisoned by the manufacturer.


Unpossible.

Only contractors are evil.


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## cdaniels

premierpainter said:


> I love how the fines drop for smaller companies. So a company that can afford a bigger fine, gets a bigger fine....that is crap.


So true...if they are going to fine one for the same violation it should be the same for everybody


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## johnthepainter

there are some good ways around this, message me for any of the particulars.


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## RH

mikemb72 said:


> not to mention all the other uses of lead in all its forms throughout the Industrial Revolution and going back into antiquity.


Like water sweetener in Roman aqueducts!


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## PatsPainting

Gibberish45 said:


> Like water sweetener in Roman aqueducts!


Just saw a story the other day on the news how a little girls lead levels were way off the chart. Not from any construction but it was the lip gloss she was using. 

Kinda makes you wonder about this whole freaking thing...

Pat


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## BrushJockey

I have done a bunch of interiors with RRP rules. My main selling point is that it will be an immaculate job- which to anyone who has lived through a remodel - rings home. 
There is a nitch here- do it right, get known for it, and those who care will find you.


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## MKap

Even though I am certified, registered with the epa and have my foreman certified, I stay away from exteriors on homes built before 1978 unless I can confirm through testing there is no lead. Interiors with lead, forget about it I do not give a quote. Thankfully by the time the weather allows work on exteriors, my schedule is usually booked months in advance I can pass on rrp work. 
If and only if I was dead in the water with nothing booked will I give a price and be willing to take on that type of work. 
Even if you are certified, registered and follow protocol, the rules are so broad, open ended, confusing and sometimes just plain stupid that there's always a risk you can be fined, put out of business or endure financial hardships even though you tried your best. The instructor in my class even admitted it was a money grab! - gee thanks can I have my 250 back then? 

I have been pricing rrp jobs so high that people are sometimes insulted by the quote. I only go on the estimate because it was from a referral from a good client. I explain to them after they tell me my price was ridiculous that the rules do not apply to homeowners and they can do it themselves if they want to save money. 

They implemented the law at the perfect time. The economy was bad, contractors needed work and the government needed money. Maybe if all painters/contractors declined rrp work they would consider a reevaluation of the law since the homes would decrease in value at a higher rate and be unable to sell. Just my 2 pennies..


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## paintball head

high fibre said:


> there are some good ways around this, message me for any of the particulars.


I don't have enough posts to message you but am interested.


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## RH

high fibre said:


> there are some good ways around this, message me for any of the particulars.


Do your renovations 19 sf at a time? 5 sf indoors.....


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