# Shellac or kilz over latex?



## upnorthmn (Jun 14, 2009)

Hello- 

I have a bit of a PITA I need to correct. Last week I finished some new oak cabinet doors and drawer fronts. I used KILZ Odorless brushed as the primer(BAD MISTAKE!!) and 2 coats Cabinet Coat sprayed as the finish. I now have tannin bleed, which surprised me with oak. What do you feel is the safest stainblock coat over the acrylic thats on there? Thanks- Dennis


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

Holy cats! 

NEW oak cabinets* brushed* with waterborne KILZ?!?

I bet they'll tannin bleed for sure!


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Some oil kilz should take care of your problem.


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

Workaholic said:


> Some oil kilz should take care of your problem.


*Eureka!*

First you will have to remove the brush marks and start over with a proper oil primer, this means sanding off the waterborne primer completely. Adding more layers will certainly cause a failure somewhere along the life of the cabinets, _especially_ alternating between oil and latex coats.
If you can get some *CANCEL* oil primer from Kwal that is your best bet.


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## upnorthmn (Jun 14, 2009)

SOLVENT BASED Odorless KILZ!! The work was sanded dead flat ( no brush marks) after priming. I use Kilz often as an enamel undercoater, sets fast and sands powder smooth. The "Odorless" part must be the problem in the tannin bleed. I used odorless because we did the project in the attatched garage of the customer and wanted to keep fumes to a minimum.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Well I guess I could of elaborated a bit on my original answer. 
Sand and surface prep the cabinets and use a oil primer such as original kilz or even better a slow drying oil. 

If you are having paint failure anywhere at all you should do as Wise suggested and remove original material.


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## DarthPainter (Jul 26, 2009)

Workaholic said:


> Well I guess I could of elaberated a bit on my original answer.
> Sand and surface prep the cabinets and use a oil primer such as original kilz or even better a slow drying oil.
> 
> If you are having paint falure anywhere at all you should do as Wise suggested and remove original material.


Do this. I hate messing with oil and raw wood; it goes great 99 percent of the time, but you always manage to get at least one set of wood work that just does inexplicably weird stuff.


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## LA Painter (Jul 28, 2009)

I like the Zinsser Shellac-Base primer (B-I-N) when Oil-Based sealers don’t seem to work. Maybe try some on a inside door...


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## tedrin (Oct 22, 2008)

I always use Zinsser coverstain as a primer/stain killer...Just make sure you don't sand all the primer off...Maybe that's why you got the bleed through.Give it a light sand with 220 .


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

What is with the Kilz? With so many better products out there,why would you still be using this? How many painters are actually still using Kilz?


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## BESMAN (Jul 15, 2009)

I'm all about the zinsser shellac base


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Kilz = $10ish per gal at the Box stores. It works, sure...stinks...yes. Odorless Kilz (oil) like stated above, much much better. Cover stain, equivalent to kilz I think, maybe a bit better because its int/ext. Bin Shellac, great...stinky still, works well, sands nice and is also a vapor barrier. 

Ok just my .02 on oil primers.


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## brushmstr (Feb 15, 2009)

When dealing with multiple bases, a shellac primer like bin is the best solution.

Hey chris, 
Why is Kilz so bad?


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## flowjo (Apr 25, 2009)

you need to use an oil based wood primer and you should give 2 coats of that then sand and finish


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

brushmstr said:


> When dealing with multiple bases, a shellac primer like bin is the best solution.
> 
> Hey chris,
> Why is Kilz so bad?


I did not say it was bad,but i believe the only one worth using at all would be the original oil and I believe there are better products available , Zinnser for one.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Oil Kilz, IMO, has never been suitable for tannin bleed. BIN always has been.

Kilz and BIN work better than the other for different needs. Smoke, tannin, and knots were not Kilz strong points.


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## upnorthmn (Jun 14, 2009)

I sprayed 2 coats of Zinsser shellac with the HVLP and had no reaction with the Cabinet Coat.


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## tedrin (Oct 22, 2008)

upnorthmn said:


> I sprayed 2 coats of Zinsser shellac with the HVLP and had no reaction with the Cabinet Coat.


That Bin shellac primer is excellent stuff..I'm not sure that I'd put it through my sprayer because it is supposedly difficult to clean up...Normal thinners won't do it.


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