# How to achieve the smoothest finish/least amount of texture on walls.



## DJL (Mar 14, 2017)

I am coming toward the end of a open concept kitchen/living room remodel, I have Level 5 walls sanded with #280. I need the texture of the primer and paint to be as smooth as possible, I have an ArrowWorthy 1/4 microfiber roller that I am going to test out and I was thinking about also testing out a Corona 3/16 UltraWeave and a Wooster 3/16 pro/doo-z roller as well. Or should I spray it? If I spray it should I use the standard 515 tip for latex or maybe something a little finer for a smoother finish? It's a high end home and the customer doesn't want to see any roller stipple/orange peel, basically wants the paint to be as smooth as it is on the color chip...


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

Prime with a good sealer. Many recommend Gardz. Sand well, then topcoat with something that lays down nicely. Perhaps, Cashmere.

3/8 nap may help. I get a smooth finish pro-dooze 1/2


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## DJL (Mar 14, 2017)

epretot said:


> Prime with a good sealer. Many recommend Gardz. Sand well, then topcoat with something that lays down nicely. Perhaps, Cashmere.
> 
> 3/8 nap may help. I get a smooth finish pro-dooze 1/2


That was going to be my first step, priming with Gardz then sanding...


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## DJL (Mar 14, 2017)

epretot said:


> Prime with a good sealer. Many recommend Gardz. Sand well, then topcoat with something that lays down nicely. Perhaps, Cashmere.
> 
> 3/8 nap may help. I get a smooth finish pro-dooze 1/2


I was planning on using Aura but after reading a bit about Cashmere I think I may have to try it out. I can't find anything that says it has a primer added to it which is a good thing as far as I'm concerned, All of these paint company's gearing there products toward DIYers has ruined them with there paint & primer in one with the viscosity of peanut butter and dry faster than you can even roll it out because people are to lazy to put more than 1 coat of paint on, personally I want a paint that you have to put 2 coats on and takes a while to dry, the way paint is now I have to cut in one wall at a time then roll...


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## PNW Painter (Sep 5, 2013)

I'd second using Gardz to prime the walls. Because it soaks into the drywall it doesn't leave much if any texture. 

I'll also add a small amount of water or XIM extender to help the paint level. Heating up the paint can also improve leveling.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

I have to ask, as it is my "posting style" so to speak, but are you asking for the paint that can give you the smoothest finish or the Sherwin Williams paint that will give you the smoothest finish? Nothing wrong with Cashmere, but there are better products out there in the paint nether-lands.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

DJL said:


> I was planning on using Aura but after reading a bit about Cashmere I think I may have to try it out. I can't find anything that says it has a primer added to it which is a good thing as far as I'm concerned, All of these paint company's gearing there products toward DIYers has ruined them with there paint & primer in one with the viscosity of peanut butter and dry faster than you can even roll it out because people are to lazy to put more than 1 coat of paint on, personally I want a paint that you have to put 2 coats on and takes a while to dry, the way paint is now I have to cut in one wall at a time then roll...


I myself would go with Aura and a 1/4 some sort of fiber type roller pad. If you shray you should always backroll. Myself on high end homes I spray the trim and ceilings, brush and roll the walls. Sometimes we end up using power roller set ups.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

DJL said:


> I was planning on using Aura but after reading a bit about Cashmere I think I may have to try it out. I can't find anything that says it has a primer added to it which is a good thing as far as I'm concerned, All of these paint company's gearing there products toward DIYers has ruined them with there paint & primer in one with the viscosity of peanut butter and dry faster than you can even roll it out because people are to lazy to put more than 1 coat of paint on, personally I want a paint that you have to put 2 coats on and takes a while to dry, the way paint is now I have to cut in one wall at a time then roll...


There is not primer added to any paint. They literally are allowed to call it that for the soul reason that the product is 100% acrylic. That's it, no formila change whatsoever from when before they called it paint and primer in one. Still, stick with your quality paint choices of course.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

ridesarize said:


> There is not primer added to any paint. They literally are allowed to call it that for the soul reason that the product is 100% acrylic. That's it, no formila change whatsoever from when before they called it paint and primer in one. Still, stick with your quality paint choices of course.


Technically you are correct, but testing on Durations and Manor Hall Timeless back in the day showed that a thick enough paint film would hold up well enough to satisfy the "lifetime warranty" as well as a primer and a paint. They were the first, but they were never actually marketed as "paint and primer". Most of the subsequent "paint and primer" products are just label engineered to capitalize on the concept so the manufacturers and retailers can make higher profits from them. 

add to that the idea that most diy'ers aren't actually applying it at the proper thicknesses to a properly prepared substrate and you have the fiasco we have today. It's for the most part the largest marketing scam our industry has ever seen. But just you wait, I'm sure someone will come up with the next great marketing scam. Odor absorbing paint is another one. What they don't tell you is that the longevity of the odor absorbing capability is effected by how mush smell there is to absorb. Eventually the film gets saturated and doesn't absorb odors anymore. At that point it is no different then any other paint. I've had DutchBoy chemists tell me that could be a short of a period as 6 months in houses with heavy smokers and several pets.

In China they sell formaldehyde absorbing paint. The trick? It has 
titanium Dioxide" Formaldehyde absorbents in it! And they actually get twice as much per gallon for it!


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

DJL said:


> I am coming toward the end of a open concept kitchen/living room remodel, I have Level 5 walls sanded with #280. I need the texture of the primer and paint to be as smooth as possible, I have an ArrowWorthy 1/4 microfiber roller that I am going to test out and I was thinking about also testing out a Corona 3/16 UltraWeave and a Wooster 3/16 pro/doo-z roller as well. Or should I spray it? If I spray it should I use the standard 515 tip for latex or maybe something a little finer for a smoother finish? It's a high end home and the customer doesn't want to see any roller stipple/orange peel, basically wants the paint to be as smooth as it is on the color chip...


If they don't want to see ANY stipple at all then you have to spray. All hand tools will leave some form of texture no matter what product or additives you use.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*How flat?*



DJL said:


> I am coming toward the end of a open concept kitchen/living room remodel, I have Level 5 walls sanded with #280. I need the texture of the primer and paint to be as smooth as possible, I have an ArrowWorthy 1/4 microfiber roller that I am going to test out and I was thinking about also testing out a Corona 3/16 UltraWeave and a Wooster 3/16 pro/doo-z roller as well. Or should I spray it? If I spray it should I use the standard 515 tip for latex or maybe something a little finer for a smoother finish? It's a high end home and the customer doesn't want to see any roller stipple/orange peel, basically wants the paint to be as smooth as it is on the color chip...


I would have to agree with PRC that the only way to avoid leaving any texture whatsoever is by spraying primer/sealer and paint. I do precious little spraying, so I have no advice for you there.

If this was my job and I was going to cut and roll everything I would do the following:

1. Using whatever technology you can use, get the humidity in the room up high, say 70-80 %, maybe more (anyone here have any thoughts on this?), using maybe a humidifier or a few buckets of hot water.

2. Get a 1" furniture self-stick slider and stick it to the end of your Sherlock Wooster roller frame: 

http://www.homedepot.com/p/McGuire-Nicholas-Ortho-Wrap-Knee-Pads-1BL-22410/205610963

3. Providing the walls are perfectly flat, I would apply 2 coats of Gardz with a Wooster 3/16" Pro/Dooz FTP roller cover. If not smooth enough for this, I would use the Wooster 5/16" Micro Plush roller cover. I might even experiment with adding water to the Gardz and testing it on a sample of drywall to see if less stipple is left (Gardz will leave a faint stipple when rolled. The directions say not to thin Gardz with water, but I have yet to try this out.) Make sure you apply 2 coats and not just try to skate by with one. I would wager that most good flat paints today still have some sheen that will show flashing under an unevenly sealed surface.

4. After the Gardz has thoroughly dried, scuff sand to take something off the top of the stipple (if there is any).

5. At this point, I may roll out a coat of 123 so I can see if there are any defects in the walls. Usually there are, so I take care of them and Gardz those spots with the shortest nap mini-roller.

6. Cut in the ceilings twice with a very fine brush about 1/2" down. You will see why shortly. The walls you might cut in twice very lightly with a 4" mini-roller.

7. For the finish coat I would use the Wooster 5/16" Micro Plush. I just did a job where I started rolling Regal Select Chantilly Lace flat on one wall with a Pro/Dooz FTP 3/8" and the stipple was too pronounced for the GC I was working for, so I switched over to a 3/16" FTP for the other walls. I did not like the stipple the 3/16" left either. A few weeks later, I rolled out the living room walls using the same paint with a 5/16" Micro Plush and was very happy with the uniformilty and flatness of the finish. There was stipple, to be sure, but it was very flat and uniform.

Before rolling, wet the roller cover with water and spin it out some on the roller. Then, using a small pair of curved scissors, smooth the roller cover fibers outward so they stick out beyond the roller cover tube, then trim the material that sticks out on an angle with the curved scissors. This will help eliminate roller lines when you roll the paint.

When you start to roll, you will have to roll against the ceiling with the roller frame perpendicular to the ceiling before rolling up and down the whole wall. This is so the stipple from the roller will be up as high as possible without hitting the ceiling (remember the self-stick slider in #2 above? This will prevent your roller from touching the ceiling similar to how the little plastic knobs on the end of mini-rollers do.

As far as rolling technique, I hope you already have that down.

I believe it is important to both seal the walls so that the water in the paint does not get sucked up into the walls and not allow you to work the paint, as well as to have the humidity high enough that the paint will not dry too quickly, but not so high that it will slide down the walls.

Good luck.

futtyos

P.S. I am home with a sore left foot that I just soaked for 30 minutes in hot water and epsom salts. Lots of time today.


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## DJL (Mar 14, 2017)

PACman said:


> I have to ask, as it is my "posting style" so to speak, but are you asking for the paint that can give you the smoothest finish or the Sherwin Williams paint that will give you the smoothest finish? Nothing wrong with Cashmere, but there are better products out there in the paint nether-lands.


I am open to using any paint that will give the smoothest finish, Originally I was thinking about using Aura but then Cashmere was mentioned, I spent about an hour reading about it from other sites/threads/ect and what I've read most about it from multiple people is that it levels very nice and leaves a flat/smooth, I haven't seen as many people say that about any other product as of yet so that's what has me thinking about using Cashmere.. I am however willing to take advise for an even better product.


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## DJL (Mar 14, 2017)

ridesarize said:


> There is not primer added to any paint. They literally are allowed to call it that for the soul reason that the product is 100% acrylic. That's it, no formila change whatsoever from when before they called it paint and primer in one. Still, stick with your quality paint choices of course.


I know it doesn't have any primer in it, I think I've just been slightly brainwashed from seeing "paint and primer in one" on every can of paint in the last 5 years lol. Ever since they started that hype with the paint & primer in one the paint got thicker, I'm sure the EPA's constant fight against VOC's played a part in the thicker paint as well.


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## DJL (Mar 14, 2017)

cdpainting said:


> I myself would go with Aura and a 1/4 some sort of fiber type roller pad. If you shray you should always backroll. Myself on high end homes I spray the trim and ceilings, brush and roll the walls. Sometimes we end up using power roller set ups.


I can understand backrolling on the primer or sealer coat but why would I have to backroll the color coat (unless I messed up spraying)?


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## DJL (Mar 14, 2017)

futtyos said:


> I would have to agree with PRC that the only way to avoid leaving any texture whatsoever is by spraying primer/sealer and paint. I do precious little spraying, so I have no advice for you there.
> 
> If this was my job and I was going to cut and roll everything I would do the following:
> 
> ...


I've used a similar idea to cutting in ceilings, I've taped off the ceiling and sealed the tape edge with white and then ran my roller right along the ceiling with the end of the roller actually touching the tape, then I go back and use my brush to clean up the corner, the only visible brush lines only end up being about 1/4" down from the ceiling.. So a 5/16 wooster super plush lays a smother finish then the 3/16 doo-z?


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## Delta Painting (Apr 27, 2010)

DJL said:


> I can understand backrolling on the primer or sealer coat but why would I have to backroll the color coat (unless I messed up spraying)?


You must be one helluva trigger operator...


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## DJL (Mar 14, 2017)

Delta Painting said:


> You must be one helluva trigger operator...


I'm not saying I am exactly, but I know how to spray it's nothing new to me, I haven't sprayed interior walls before however, mostly just outdoors work. Maybe I should go buy a piece of drywall and see what kind of finish I can lay down...


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

Spraying will leave lines in your wall.. usually from overlap or fingering (of any size). The back roll removes this annoyance by spreading the paint evenly. I personally think the HO is asking way too much of you for these walls. There needs to be a lvl of stipple, otherwise there is no way to touch up without redoing the whole wall again... and again... and again... trade damage and other accidents after the HO accepts the finished work will be hard to fix otherwise. I give a "thumbs down" for the smoothness your trying to attain. Too much of a headache for ALL involved.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

If the drywall guys did level 5, it also requires 2 coats of sprayed leveler, (beadex) which they make a special roller for but I highly recommend just spraying nicely, then sanding.. at that point I would spray only the primer coat, and spray only the topcoats. It will look smooth if you are good at spraying, can relax and feather it in at tops of walls, don't have overlaps onto ceilings, etc. I've touched up sprayed smoothwall with success before....100% maybe not, but usually goes fine.


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## DJL (Mar 14, 2017)

[email protected] said:


> Spraying will leave lines in your wall.. usually from overlap or fingering (of any size). The back roll removes this annoyance by spreading the paint evenly. I personally think the HO is asking way too much of you for these walls. There needs to be a lvl of stipple, otherwise there is no way to touch up without redoing the whole wall again... and again... and again... trade damage and other accidents after the HO accepts the finished work will be hard to fix otherwise. I give a "thumbs down" for the smoothness your trying to attain. Too much of a headache for ALL involved.


 I already told the HO that if they are sprayed touch-ups wouldn't be possible in the future, he said he didn't care, he does keep his house in immaculate shape, can't even tell anyone lives there lol. Can I ask why you would get lines when spraying? Is it just from the different thickness of the overlap? I was kind of thinking if a paint has self leveling properties the overlap would flow out?


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## DJL (Mar 14, 2017)

ridesarize said:


> If the drywall guys did level 5, it also requires 2 coats of sprayed leveler, (beadex) which they make a special roller for but I highly recommend just spraying nicely, then sanding.. at that point I would spray only the primer coat, and spray only the topcoats. It will look smooth if you are good at spraying, can relax and feather it in at tops of walls, don't have overlaps onto ceilings, etc. I've touched up sprayed smoothwall with success before....100% maybe not, but usually goes fine.


 I did the Level 5 (I do all my own work). For what reason would I need beadex? The wall is basically a sheet of glass right now with #280 scratches from sanding... When you touch up a sprayed wall what is your process if you don't mind me asking? Thanks.. Also would you use the 515 tip that most people use for latex?


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

DJL said:


> I did the Level 5 (I do all my own work). For what reason would I need beadex? The wall is basically a sheet of glass right now with #280 scratches from sanding... When you touch up a sprayed wall what is your process if you don't mind me asking? Thanks.. Also would you use the 515 tip that most people use for latex?



I'm not a drywaller, nor am I journeyman painter certified mind you, but my understanding is the definitition of level 5 is acheived after spray on leveler is applied and sanded, not before. The leveler is spray on mud basically, acts like an undercoater which builds up smoothly. Alternatively, skim coating the fields once or twice might work. Everything extreme side lighted as well.

Anyways, touch up is by using a very light coat of touch up paint, well feathered out with a tight nap weenie. Light coats. Tip size is dependent on wall sizes. 515 for bath and kitchens perhaps, but probably or 619 or 617 for generally everything.


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## DJL (Mar 14, 2017)

ridesarize said:


> I'm not a drywaller, nor am I journeyman painter certified mind you, but my understanding is the definitition of level 5 is acheived after spray on leveler is applied and sanded, not before. The leveler is spray on mud basically, acts like an undercoater which builds up smoothly. Alternatively, skim coating the fields once or twice might work. Everything extreme side lighted as well.
> 
> Anyways, touch up is by using a very light coat of touch up paint, well feathered out with a tight nap weenie. Light coats. Tip size is dependent on wall sizes. 515 for bath and kitchens perhaps, but probably or 619 or 617 for generally everything.


Ah ok I understand now, I roll on my thinned out mud and then trowel it smooth, I prefer the rolled and troweled meathod for 2 reason, #1 is if you have a low spot you will be able to fill it while floating the wall, if you sprayed the finish you wouldn't even know the low spot was there. #2 is I would imagine the corners would build out a little bit and become slightly rounded after spraying a thick coating like that, I'm sure it could probably b sanded square again though.. I'm real fussy about my corners, I like perfectly square/sharp corners, especially at the ceilings if no crown is being used, sometimes I even use an angles sponge to sand a very small grove up into the ceiling and that makes your cut-in job fast and flawless when you add color to the walls...


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## PNW Painter (Sep 5, 2013)

Like so many things in the trades, different companies probably have different methods for applying or achieving a level 5 finish. If you want to check your work get a level or strait edge and start checking the wall.

Also, what sheen does your client want? Flat, matte, eggshell ...? If they want flat you may be able to spray it, but anything with a higher sheen will likely cause lines/fingers on the wall like Jason mentioned. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DJL (Mar 14, 2017)

PACman said:


> I have to ask, as it is my "posting style" so to speak, but are you asking for the paint that can give you the smoothest finish or the Sherwin Williams paint that will give you the smoothest finish? Nothing wrong with Cashmere, but there are better products out there in the paint nether-lands.


PACman I'd like to hear what other paint's you would recommend, I have SW BM PPG and California in my area and possibly more, thanks...


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## jprefect (Mar 4, 2015)

PRC said:


> If they don't want to see ANY stipple at all then you have to spray. All hand tools will leave some form of texture no matter what product or additives you use.


I once was on a job (as an apprentice) where they couldn't figure out why a wall kept getting texture/sand in it. Eventually, we realized that the overspray from the top of the wall was settling on the bottom of the wall and drying. It was a wicked hot day. IDK if they fixed it by putting extender or whatever, but just be aware of the possibility/control your conditions 100% for spray. 

If you can't controll conditions 100% a good alternative might be foam roller. I don't usually see large ones, but I bet you could order them. 

If you do go with a 3/16" or 1/4" nap, (I think you'd be fine, btw) use the largest one you can (18" or 14"). 

SERIOUSLY consider doing samples, so your client has "buy-in" (off?), and sees what different methods produce. It'll cost you a couple of bucks in roller naps, but it's probably well worth your time, if you're doing work of this quality. 

Kudos on the prep, and the ambitious quality standards, BTW


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

Carefully vacuum,mop or otherwise remove dust from walls, Hose it with gardz, pencil any defects, repair defects, spot prime with gardz, pole sand, then hose it all again. Don't back roll, just leave adequate time between coats (primer and finish.dont push it...it needs to thoroughly dry)
Cashmere is a nice product to spray, so is Manor Hall (ppg). Touch up needs to be done with a ff tip, hvlp or prevail (think trim touch up). The gardz on a clean surface will penetrate and bond. A couple thin coats is better than trying to get it in 1. 3 might even be the way to go depending on the uniformity of the sheen after the 2nd coat. You could go with 123 but I think gardz is more well suited for your purposes on this. Good luck, sounds like a bit of a pita. 

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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*hard to see*



lilpaintchic said:


> Carefully vacuum,mop or otherwise remove dust from walls, Hose it with gardz, pencil any defects, repair defects, spot prime with gardz, pole sand, then hose it all again. Don't back roll, just leave adequate time between coats (primer and finish.dont push it...it needs to thoroughly dry)
> Cashmere is a nice product to spray, so is Manor Hall (ppg). Touch up needs to be done with a ff tip, hvlp or prevail (think trim touch up). The gardz on a clean surface will penetrate and bond. A couple thin coats is better than trying to get it in 1. 3 might even be the way to go depending on the uniformity of the sheen after the 2nd coat. You could go with 123 but I think gardz is more well suited for your purposes on this. Good luck, sounds like a bit of a pita.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


lilpaintchic, as you know, I am a big proponent of Gardz. I also agree that 2 (or, as you mention, sometimes 3) coats of Gardz are better than one. I have also found that if most of the dust is removed from the surface to be skimmed, a coat of Gardz will soak through and bond any dust that is left into the surface. I just have a question below.

I have been doing a lot of work for a contractor in a couple of Chicago hi rises. He does a lot of skim coating over the original heavy orange peel on the ceilings and walls when these condos were built. He begrudgingly agrees that Gardz is a good thing for sealing skim coats, but he does want a coat of 123 (or other white primer/sealer) on before he uses a bright light to look for defects as they are hard to find otherwise. I have to agree with him if I am going to just try and patch the defects.

I did finish one wall for him that got bright sunlight and needed to be very, very smooth and flat. I screwed it up using Easy Sand and asked him to fix it. He went over it with a pencil, then skim-patched with Blue Top mud that dries sort of yellow. I very gently sanded this down (I can sand this stuff with my hand) and put a coat of Gardz on it, let it dry, then skim coated the whole wall with Durabond 45, let dry, then sanded. I skimmed the whole wall instead of looking for defects as I always seem to find more defects while I am correcting the ones I have penciled as well as finding more once I am all done and starting to paint. I left the wall like this until he fabricated an opening where the wall was broken away so a prehung door could be installed, after which he finished skim coating with Easy Sand to blend it in with the rest of the wall. He primed it with 123 and I painted it 2 coats Regal Select. The only defects were where he had finished the wall with Easy Sand and primed it without giving me a chance to do my thing before finishing the wall. As the job had to be finished, we left it as it was.

My question for you (and anyone else here) is how do you find any defects in a skimmed (and possibly Gardzed) ceiling or wall without the visual advantage of a white surface - unless you thinly skim coat, then sand the whole surface? 

Also, why do you advise against backrolling? I have found that paint going over a surface properly sealed with Gardz will not lose its moisture by it seeping into the wall, thus giving a longer time to work the paint before it starts to dry and tack up.

Other than that, I like your procedures detailed above.

futtyos


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

futtyos said:


> I would have to agree with PRC that the only way to avoid leaving any texture whatsoever is by spraying primer/sealer and paint. I do precious little spraying, so I have no advice for you there.
> 
> If this was my job and I was going to cut and roll everything I would do the following:
> 
> ...



Seriously. I would prefer to ask this client to go live in a glass box. Sounds like a nightmare waiting to happen.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Seriously. I would prefer to ask this client to go live in a glass box. Sounds like a nightmare waiting to happen.


fbk, I would have to agree with your simple take on this.

futtyos


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## DJL (Mar 14, 2017)

lilpaintchic said:


> Carefully vacuum,mop or otherwise remove dust from walls, Hose it with gardz, pencil any defects, repair defects, spot prime with gardz, pole sand, then hose it all again. Don't back roll, just leave adequate time between coats (primer and finish.dont push it...it needs to thoroughly dry)
> Cashmere is a nice product to spray, so is Manor Hall (ppg). Touch up needs to be done with a ff tip, hvlp or prevail (think trim touch up). The gardz on a clean surface will penetrate and bond. A couple thin coats is better than trying to get it in 1. 3 might even be the way to go depending on the uniformity of the sheen after the 2nd coat. You could go with 123 but I think gardz is more well suited for your purposes on this. Good luck, sounds like a bit of a pita.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


I already planned on Gardz (2 coats minimum). Heard great things about Cashmere as far as finish quality/smoothness and not being like other paints that are the viscosity of peanut butter but PacMan said there are better paints than that so I've been patiently waiting for his response...


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

DJL said:


> I already planned on Gardz (2 coats minimum). Heard great things about Cashmere as far as finish quality/smoothness and not being like other paints that are the viscosity of peanut butter but PacMan said there are better paints than that so I've been patiently waiting for his response...


I've had several painters switch from Cashmere to California Fresh-coat Unite that have told me it gives them a much smoother finish then Cashmere.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

futtyos said:


> lilpaintchic, as you know, I am a big proponent of Gardz. I also agree that 2 (or, as you mention, sometimes 3) coats of Gardz are better than one. I have also found that if most of the dust is removed from the surface to be skimmed, a coat of Gardz will soak through and bond any dust that is left into the surface. I just have a question below.
> 
> I have been doing a lot of work for a contractor in a couple of Chicago hi rises. He does a lot of skim coating over the original heavy orange peel on the ceilings and walls when these condos were built. He begrudgingly agrees that Gardz is a good thing for sealing skim coats, but he does want a coat of 123 (or other white primer/sealer) on before he uses a bright light to look for defects as they are hard to find otherwise. I have to agree with him if I am going to just try and patch the defects.
> 
> ...


Not quite sure if I'm understanding correctly but use a light over the entire surface to pick up imperfections. You can add a little chalk from a chalk line/box to your touch up mud to highlight your touchups with out having to use a pencil and perhaps having a pencil line to fix.

The suggestion in this case to avoid bankrolling was in response to having the smoothest walls possible. Gardz will bond and penetrate very well without bankrolling if the surface is pretty clean of dust to start with. We don't backroll trim. If you want your walls to be as smooth as your trim, you gotta use the same methods. Hope that made sense.  

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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

DJL said:


> I already planned on Gardz (2 coats minimum). Heard great things about Cashmere as far as finish quality/smoothness and not being like other paints that are the viscosity of peanut butter but PacMan said there are better paints than that so I've been patiently waiting for his response...


Pac hates sw...he thinks they screwed him over for a job promotion a long time ago. Use what you're comfortable with...sw or whatever floats yer boat.

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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

PRC said:


> If they don't want to see ANY stipple at all then you have to spray. All hand tools will leave some form of texture no matter what product or additives you use.


Good luck not getting any lap marks or flashing if you don't back roll after spraying..You have to have a bit of stipple or the walls will look silly. IMO
Also, whats wrong with a good ol drywall primer. The super spec is really nice from BM. Then you can see any imperfections that need touching up prior to top coats..Maybe add some floetrol to top coats so you can keep a wet edge.. Best of luck :wink:


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

lilpaintchic said:


> Pac hates sw...he thinks they screwed him over for a job promotion a long time ago. Use what you're comfortable with...sw or whatever floats yer boat.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


I don't think. There where several people fired from SW and a lawsuit for nepotism was pending. I dropped it when I went to work for PPG. And if any of you would like to stop by I have pretty much every SW product here in my store and you are more then welcome to compare them at your leisure and not have to experiment on a job. Name a paint store that will do that! I'm not backing down from the issue that SW products, while being fairly good and quite usable products, are NOT the best products in any competitive price range. They know it and if they keep selling it why bother changing it. It costs money to develop new paint lines and why spend that money if people are perfectly willing to use whatever you have to sell. 

Before long none of you will have any choice in who you buy your paint from and what happens then? Prices inflate incredibly quickly and the quality goes to crap. Why do you think major appliances are such crap these days? It used to be you bought a refrigerator and expected it to last 15-20 years. Now on average they last 6-7 years. Basically it's because there are only three companies making all of the various brands, instead of there being 30 or 40 companies manufacturing appliances and the competition between them kept the quality high while the prices where low.

What about automobiles? Do you all realize what would have happened if there had never been a Honda or Toyota? You can complain all you want about them, but they are the companies that keep the American car manufacturers on their toes and forces them to keep producing cars of a fairly high quality. Without that competition, think about what we would be driving today! Think about how crappy cars already were in the mid 70's! Vega's for christs sake! They rusted out in a year and their engines would go no more than 60-70 thousand miles before they would blow up.

SW is basically in that mid 70' mind set with their products right now. If people are blindly buying their products, why bother making them better? And even if there are better products sold elsewhere, why worry if no one is buying them? It really isn't JUST SW but most of the major paint manufacturers. 

And did i ever mention that SW owed me 9 months of back wage increase when i quit? They gave me and excellent review, gave me a $10,000.00 a year salary increase, and didn't pay it to me until after i gave them my two week notice. No reason given, just didn't pay me. What company does crap like that to an employee that has 10 years of excellent performance reviews? Not a good company to work for.


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## allcitypaintingwi (Aug 16, 2016)

*spray.*



DJL said:


> I am coming toward the end of a open concept kitchen/living room remodel, I have Level 5 walls sanded with #280. I need the texture of the primer and paint to be as smooth as possible, I have an ArrowWorthy 1/4 microfiber roller that I am going to test out and I was thinking about also testing out a Corona 3/16 UltraWeave and a Wooster 3/16 pro/doo-z roller as well. Or should I spray it? If I spray it should I use the standard 515 tip for latex or maybe something a little finer for a smoother finish? It's a high end home and the customer doesn't want to see any roller stipple/orange peel, basically wants the paint to be as smooth as it is on the color chip...


Spray the walls with a 515 with a 100 mesh filter in gun. then tape and drape walls and spray ceilings.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

PACman said:


> I don't think. There where several people fired from SW and a lawsuit for nepotism was pending. I dropped it when I went to work for PPG. And if any of you would like to stop by I have pretty much every SW product here in my store and you are more then welcome to compare them at your leisure and not have to experiment on a job. Name a paint store that will do that! I'm not backing down from the issue that SW products, while being fairly good and quite usable products, are NOT the best products in any competitive price range. They know it and if they keep selling it why bother changing it. It costs money to develop new paint lines and why spend that money if people are perfectly willing to use whatever you have to sell.
> 
> Before long none of you will have any choice in who you buy your paint from and what happens then? Prices inflate incredibly quickly and the quality goes to crap. Why do you think major appliances are such crap these days? It used to be you bought a refrigerator and expected it to last 15-20 years. Now on average they last 6-7 years. Basically it's because there are only three companies making all of the various brands, instead of there being 30 or 40 companies manufacturing appliances and the competition between them kept the quality high while the prices where low.
> 
> ...


See, told ya.  big fat resentment. For many,many years. Sorry pac.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

lilpaintchic said:


> See, told ya.  big fat resentment. For many,many years. Sorry pac.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Maybe there was and is some resentment, but unlike most people that they screw over i took it as an inspiration to give them some competition with another paint company. I put it to them good for 9 years at PPG. But, why are most painters self employed? Because dealing with corporate politics and crap might be something they don't want to deal with? So am I really being that resentful voicing my opinion over a company with a long history of mistreating employees? 

Again, I had a lawsuit pending against them and dropped it when I went to work with PPG (actually Duron at the time). My attorney said it was a pretty easy gross nepotism case and they would most likely have settled out of court because they wouldn't have been able to drag it out because it was such a clear violation of the law. So by dropping that case i showed resentment? If we ignore when companies do wrong what happens? The wrongs become part of the culture at that company. That is the point I am trying to make about SW.

I knew several women who were sexually abused by management at that company. But lets forget that because i am being resentful if i don't? Because after all, it did happen 25 years ago so what is the damage right? 

A friends eventual suicide, another's long term drug addiction and repeated rehab attempts, and a divorce. So am I resentful? Hell yes if that's what it means to you!


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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

futtyos said:


> My question for you (and anyone else here) is how do you find any defects in a skimmed (and possibly Gardzed) ceiling or wall without the visual advantage of a white surface - unless you thinly skim coat, then sand the whole surface?
> 
> 
> 
> futtyos


i use a trouble light and hold it up close at multiple angles


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