# Customers Deck



## bramp15 (May 14, 2011)

Got a customer that is hesitant about springing for Sherwin Williams paints. He's not sure if it will last longer, and neither am I. His deck was previously painted with valspar and its flaking off 3 years later in the area where the sun hits it -- the covered are of the deck is fine.

I recommended to him Cabots Pro VT Stain. Which states it can go over previous painted areas etc. Here is a the link to the back label.
http://www.epaintstore.com/cabot-pr...0800-siding-provt-acrylic-colors-reviews.html

Is this his best option for going with a cheap rout? Or is the Acrylic Cabot Stain going to have a problem with looks department where the paint isn't flaking compared to the area where it is flaking.

And if I did talk him into Sherwin Williams paints, is it going to last longer then 3 years Valspar?

I am a little new here I appreciate any help, and in addition I hope I posted in the right area... Thanks.. :thumbup:

EDIT: Reading around the forum some I see Benjamin Moore, all over, looks like Aura is a good exterior paint.. But its like $60 a gallon? YIKES...

Last Edit: Maybe a porch paint would be better, what is recommended in the $35 price range or lower?


----------



## doctors11 (May 17, 2010)

OK, where to begin?...Red flags everywhere on this one. Hopefully you know that no regular exterior paint should EVER be used on a deck or any horizontal surface. They're not formulated to withstand standing water, snow and ice, or foot traffic. Some (not all) porch and floor enamals state they can be used on exterior decks (not Valspar) but they should not be used for this purpose. Cabot Pro vt is a great product but not for horizontal surfaces. The old paint on the deck MUST be removed. If not the new product will stick to the old paint but the old paint will continue to release from the wood and take the new with it. 

Your options are...use a paint stripper to remove ALL traces of the paint, including what's in the grain. 

Sand the he!! out of the deck until you're sure all the paint is gone...tough to do especially if deck boards are uneven.

Reboard the deck.

After that try to convince customer to avoid a solid stain in favor of a semi transparent. Stick with top products like Arborcoat, Sikkens or some of the professional products that guys like Pressure Pros are using.

Good luck.


----------



## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

This is a job I would run from. There is no way you are going to get that Valspar off of there. The best you can do is scrape off the flakes, wash it with some TSP and bleach for a little bite, and a topcoat or two of a solid stain. If there is not a ton of ventilation under the deck (the main cause for horizontal failure of film forming finishes), it is going to be doing the same thing in a year or two. Set your customers expectations, charge out the wazoo, and pray he says no.


----------



## ParagonVA (Feb 3, 2009)

I'm with you guys. Re-deck, or run.


----------



## bramp15 (May 14, 2011)

Yeah Ive done the strippers on another customers deck last year, and the results were not good, scored the wood, caused the sap to draw out, made the wood different colors bleached looked etc. The home owner and I were both not impressed, but it was easy going as it turned out well in the end.

This current Job though the customer is a tight budget, he wont spring for all the stripping nor do I want to do it.

Guess my options are to tell him he will get another 2/3 years out of it. And go with that the cheap rout, re paint it or put that cabot pro vt on it.....


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Sikkens makes a nice product, Arborcoat from BM is another newer hybrid type stain. They're both similarly priced. Depending on your area, +/- $37-40/gal'ish


----------



## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

I've got a floor sander/refinisher that I recommend for projects like these. He counter sinks if necessary and sands the deck to bare wood with the floor machines. New boards are the best bet. People are getting tired of spending big $ on decks only to have them fail or look like crap after one season and then have to strip and redo all the time. The composite and no maintenance decking is taking over in our area. It was fun while it lasted.....

I agree with Pressure Pro that the reason for most failures is moisture with poor ventilation. Many times we are actually causing the deck boards to rot by treating/sealing/finishing the surface in the interest of "protecting". I put my foot thru a cedar deck the other day that is maintained annually. The moisture becomes trapped under the sealer and the deck mildews and can even rot especially without a ton of ventilation. Sometimes the best thing you can do for the health of a deck without adequate ventilation is just clean it and leave it alone. Sounds crazy, but many times we are doing more harm than good unless there are ideal conditions.


----------



## Tonyg (Dec 9, 2007)

I've been hoping to hear about somebody using the Mad-Dog Deck Fix.

Sounds like this would be a good candidate (and I would really like to hear some reviews)


----------



## bramp15 (May 14, 2011)

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/porch/msg0813221412913.html

what do you guys think about this, guys says 4 to 6 years.. That is a lot better then 2-3 years..


----------



## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

bramp15 said:


> http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/porch/msg0813221412913.html
> 
> what do you guys think about this, guys says 4 to 6 years.. That is a lot better then 2-3 years..



My response after ten years of doing a quarter million square feet of deck restoration per year would be would be ----> :laughing: Pretty much the same sentiment I had in that thread.


----------



## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

4-6 out of a solid coating? That would be a first.


----------



## bramp15 (May 14, 2011)

lol ok I get it guys.... tuff love I guess....


----------



## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

The next biggest thing after proper ventilation on solids is maintenance. If you recoat every 2-3 years, you can get a relatively long life from them and keep them looking good. That kills all of the vapor transmission characteristics, and yep, it will trap moisture underneath and possibly rot the wood, but it will look clean. :thumbsup:


----------



## Different Strokes (Dec 8, 2010)

Also one of the biggest reasons that boat floors rot out. A company such as bayliner for many years only would fiberglass the topside of the flooring in their boats. In turn the floors would rot out after 10 years of the moisture coming up from the bottom. 

When I replaced the deck (floor) I made sure to fiberglass the top and bottom of the new decking, even the thin edges of the ply were coated.


----------



## BreatheEasyHP (Apr 24, 2011)

If the budget is tight, another option is to clean, quickly scrape and sand failing areas, then hit the bare spots with an acrylic semi trans that roughly matches. It will look splotchy, but can provide short term protection, look better than the peeling, and work out financially both for you and the client. I know a woman who's doing this every 2 years until the paint is close enough to gone to just strip it; this summer will be her second year. 

She had it painted years ago on the advice of a painter. I feel bad for people who get advice to paint a deck!


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

BreatheEasyHP said:


> If the budget is tight, another option is to clean, quickly scrape and sand failing areas, then hit the bare spots with an acrylic semi trans that roughly matches. It will look splotchy, but can provide short term protection, look better than the peeling, and work out financially both for you and the client. I know a woman who's doing this every 2 years until the paint is close enough to gone to just strip it; this summer will be her second year.
> 
> She had it painted years ago on the advice of a painter. I feel bad for people who get advice to paint a deck!


I can't imagine that would even remotely look decent. If you wanted to put that theory into practice, I would opt for a semi-solid stain. It will still look like crap, just a little less crappy I suppose. 

Personally I'd go with Kens suggestion. Wash, sand, and repaint the bad boards. It's a band-aid fix at best, but much less expensive than a complete strip or replace.

I always do my best to talk people out of "painting" their decks, unless the damage is already done. If someone really has a bad looking deck and wants to cover it up, I recommend a semi-solid double coated. It has just about the same look as a solid stain, but behaves more like a semi-transparent....if that makes sense. It wont "Peel", it just more or less wears out, with a simple fix. Clean and recoat.


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

CliffK said:


> I've got a floor sander/refinisher that I recommend for projects like these. He counter sinks if necessary and sands the deck to bare wood with the floor machines. New boards are the best bet. People are getting tired of spending big $ on decks only to have them fail or look like crap after one season and then have to strip and redo all the time. The composite and no maintenance decking is taking over in our area. It was fun while it lasted.....
> 
> I agree with Pressure Pro that the reason for most failures is moisture with poor ventilation. Many times we are actually causing the deck boards to rot by treating/sealing/finishing the surface in the interest of "protecting". I put my foot thru a cedar deck the other day that is maintained annually. The moisture becomes trapped under the sealer and the deck mildews and can even rot especially without a ton of ventilation. Sometimes the best thing you can do for the health of a deck without adequate ventilation is just clean it and leave it alone. Sounds crazy, but many times we are doing more harm than good unless there are ideal conditions.


 Yea I sold a 600 square decking redo today with Azek. As I was leaving the homeowner from across the street called me over unexpectedly to look at theirs. Solid stain failing, and they wanted me to sand and refinish. 

Said that plastic stuff looked funny, and was to hot to walk on barefoot. So there are cons that some people don't like about composites. 

She also said the neighbor was always trying to one up her, and it made her sick. Sold that one as well. 

I also sold a 4000 square exterior repaint. It was a good day. :thumbsup: 

Ok maybe I was bragging a little. :whistling2:


----------



## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

straight_lines said:


> Yea I sold a 600 square decking redo today with Azek. As I was leaving the homeowner from across the street called me over unexpectedly to look at theirs. Solid stain failing, and they wanted me to sand and refinish.
> 
> Said that plastic stuff looked funny, and was to hot to walk on barefoot. So there are cons that some people don't like about composites.
> 
> ...


 Hey, If you've got it-flaunt it straight_lines!:thumbsup:
I'm seeing new deck products all the time, with the emphasis in r & d being placed on getting the products to look more like wood and be more "friendly" to walk on. I saw a really nice one the other day that I thought was wood looking from inside out. It was a little slippery when wet though. We're seeing the Azek used for the skirt boards etc. and pvc railings. The times are a changing up here. There are few exteriors left in general. Most are now covered in vinyl. Any and all new construction is vinyl.


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I see that too in a lot of my service areas Cliff. Thankfully the beach areas still use mostly hardie, and PT. High end is mostly Ipe for decking, but I have noticed more of that is going composite.


----------



## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

I love composites. They get mold infested twice per year and more and more people are having us seal them.


----------

