# Fine finish spray tips.



## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Last week we had an entire wall of custom-made bookshelves and entertainment center for a client.
It was primarily built from MDF stock. We speceded out advance semi gloss for this project. We had determined that we would be using XIM uma primer.
After all the prep work had been completed we started to spray out the doors with a Graco fine finish tip.
The tip was practically brand new and had only two gallons of paint put through it. I am using my Tritech 7 spray pump for this project. Pressure was at about 1800 psi. Testing the pressure back and forth until the fingers on the spray pattern went away. Unfortunately even with the new tip, both filters on the pump were cleaned and no debris inside them, all of the primer was brand new and had been strained, no other variables to allow for problems, and still we had large fingers on each side of our spray pattern with the pressure turned nearly all the way or all the down or anywhere in between . We decided to spray the doors anyway with this tip. They look like crap with the primer being sprayed. I have discovered that Graco tips have turned to mush and are no longer as good as they used to be. Right out of the package we experience these terrible fingers with most of their tips regardless of size. Without fail every time we buy a new tip we change out the gaskets on the tip guard as well. I do believe it is the manufacturer that no longer manufactures a good tip. Others will chime in and disagree with my statement. I will say this as far as the quality of Graco. 212 fine finish tip placed 14 inches away from the surface gave us a five and a half inch pattern with heavy fingers during the spray. We switched tips to a worn-out Tritech 211 regular orifice tip. No fingers and half pressure on the pump gave us an excellent result. On Saturday October 30th we sanded everything down and got ready to spray everything with advance semi gloss. The night before I had called around to our local Benjamin Moore shop and had discovered that they were out of Tritech fine finish tips. I then called my local tri tech rep, he took the time to meet me and gave me a fine finish tip at no cost. The next day using this tip was amazing. As always I changed the gaskets on the tip guard and at about 3/8 pressure tested the pattern. The pattern was completely flawless and it measured a true 4 inches at 10 inches away from the surface. I sprayed out two coats of advance, letting it dry in between coats. This was the first time I had sprayed advance with a Tritech fine finish tip. I have sprayed hundreds of gallons of advance with Graco fine finish tips and have noticed that no matter what I am always left with at least a couple of runs after the first coat. When I inspected the first coat using the Tritech fine finish tip I noticed that I had one very small run on such a large project. These built-ins were some wide open areas and a lot of tight little boxes that required quickly spraying as to not to get too much paint on the surface. Most guys know that with advance there is going to be some runs no matter what. It is the most stubborn paint on the market. But it is an excellent product after it has dried. What I concluded is that Tritech is far superior to Graco. The pumps and the tips are really head and shoulders above Graco. I did speak to my local Graco Rep and explain to him my findings. Of course he disagreed and thought that I was doing something wrong not to achieve results with Graco. I mention to him that I have given Graco the benefit of the doubt with several new tips over the past months. The results are the same with every new tip out of the package. Heavy fingers and a subpar results. Tritech is flawless immediately with the first trigger pull. No longer will I use Graco, I will only use Tritech because my results speak for themselves. We have noticed since switching from Graco pumps to Tri tech, we use less paint and our results have been vastly improved ever since. I am fully confident of spraying Advance regardless of the situation since I now use Tritech fine finish tips exclusively. We pride ourselves on knowing how to spray having been taught by father and grandfather who sprayed as well. They to used Graco pumps since the late 60s. This was my very first tri tech pump and I will never go back to Graco. Tritech is engineered far above any other pump. No I am NOT a spokesman for Tritech, but I am pissed off at how much Graco has gone downhill over the years.
Graco no longer matters to me and I will only recommend to anybody who wants to achieve excellent results with less effort, Tritech is the way to go.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

Made me wonder is all. Who even makes em or where they come from. I don't buy em. We use these.http://www.asmcompany.com/asm/asm.nsf/Page/Super-Zip+Reversible+Spray+Tips

If anybody ever wondered, they're fine. As far as I am concerned.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Tri tech is made in America.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Have used Asm. Tritech is far superior.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Titan FF tips work fine and are cheaper.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Glad you brought this up, Zoomer. I've had similar experience with Graco tips over the past few years. I'll have to check out Tritech.


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## The Cutting Edge (May 25, 2014)

I use titan ff tips. Ive had several do the same thing you're talking about with the graco tips. I probably get 1 in 4 or 5 that finger badly and you can't hardly get them out no matter how high the pressure. Ive had more this year do it than I can remember in previous years. Thanks for the post. I'll give them a try. Ive wandered how good the asm ff tips were but no one here stocks them.


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## canopainting (Feb 12, 2013)

If you're using a fine finish tip you might try thinning the finish coat slightly


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Thinning Advance is a terrible idea. It is the tips not the paint


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Actually , Titan tips are half as good as Tritech.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

My challenge to all is to clear your mind of your preferred tip.
Have a friend or coworker wrap masking tape around the tip of choice after it has been put into the tip guard, then determine which brand of tip you are spraying with without actually seeing the color or brand marks on the tip. Do the same with a tritech tip. Make sure that it is an even playing field by using the same size tips on the same type of surface with the same type of paint. I did this test between three different brands and there was no comparison. Tritech by far blew the competition away. I could not determine which tip was which based on them being covered with tape. I just looked at the results and took the masking tape off to reveal that Tritech without prejudice or bias is the best.


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

I'll have to try some tritech this week or early next. See how it goes.

I'm always open to new stuff. I've seen their pumps and used their guns. Good stuff, no doubt about it. 

I've been told that the primary founders came from Graco and the other from Titan. Knowing the pros/cons they set out to improve and make better pumps/products.


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## canopainting (Feb 12, 2013)

Well I just checked out their website and I think I'll buy a couple tips and try am out


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Today, after looking at the built-ins that I sprayed over the weekend, I determined that this is the best that Advance has ever turned out on all of the jobs that I have used it for. This is the first job that I used the Tritech tip in conjunction with Advance. I close my eyes and felt the surfaces whether it was horizontal or vertical surfaces. The finish was baby butt smooth. I attribute the smooth finish to the Tritech tip. I do believe that Benjamin Moore intended Advance to look and feel this good under ideal conditions. With the Tritech the conditions were not ideal yet the results were incredible.


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

The Cutting Edge said:


> I use titan ff tips. Ive had several do the same thing you're talking about with the graco tips. I probably get 1 in 4 or 5 that finger badly and you can't hardly get them out no matter how high the pressure. Ive had more this year do it than I can remember in previous years. Thanks for the post. I'll give them a try. Ive wandered how good the asm ff tips were but no one here stocks them.


Graco has owned ASM for five years or more now. Always been an american company that I know of, not a chinese knock off. Was always considered a lower cost alternative to the big three, or big two nowadays.

I have a few tips that do what you guys talk about, they will tail regardless of the pressure. Usually they only exhibit this at the get go and will even out once some paint is pushed through, but with enamels that might take too long because of the fineness of the paint. Either return them or run some flat through them to grind them down.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

With Graco ff tips we were running a couple of gallons of flat through them, before using them with enamels. 
Tritech is perfect from the start.


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## Phinnster (Feb 20, 2013)

Zoomed 
I was using tri tech tips 15 years ago and agree
They are the balls
Is art still with them do you know 
Nice guy 
Good stuff


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

What size gun filters are you using?


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## SprayRepairGuy (Jan 15, 2014)

removed


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

I do not know Art but maybe someday I will.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

We have tried all 3 mesh sizes with Graco ff tips. It does not matter. They still finger. 
Trust me I have tried everything. 
It's the tips not the person spraying.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

Zoomer said:


> With Graco ff tips we were running a couple of gallons of flat through them, before using them with enamels. Tritech is perfect from the start.


Realize Graco is not my normal tip, but neither is tritech so. From what u are reporting, just the facts, maybe the Graco tips are just smaller. Maybe a Graco .212 is a tritech .209? Equivilant. 

Fingering in my experience with a new tip anyhow the material is too thick for the tip. Thin the material or go with a bigger tip and ur Kool. Or break in the tip a bit and ur Kool with that tip. Just a observation I've made over the days. I'm not big on thinning material but if you did and with the Graco the fine finish one? It would probably work I think. 

And all that said even. The FF fine finish. I don't really get it what is the difference there. A .210 or a .210 ff? What is the difference in their build? I dunno. Could that be it? Is the ff the problem? In the Graco you are using. For primer why a ff? But again I don't get it the ff determination. Using the zip tips I am comfortable with, by familiarity. There is no ff (fine finish) monicker. It doesn't exhist. I'd use a .209 or a .211 and expect a fine finish I could get with it, but fine finish as a monicker doesn't exhist. 

Graco it makes a .210? And then it makes a .210 ff? I think right? Well what is the difference? In how it is built? I dunno, may be the problem there in whatever that difference is?


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## The Cutting Edge (May 25, 2014)

Oden said:


> Realize Graco is not my normal tip, but neither is tritech so. From what u are reporting, just the facts, maybe the Graco tips are just smaller. Maybe a Graco .212 is a tritech .209? Equivilant.
> 
> Fingering in my experience with a new tip anyhow the material is too thick for the tip. Thin the material or go with a bigger tip and ur Kool. Or break in the tip a bit and ur Kool with that tip. Just a observation I've made over the days. I'm not big on thinning material but if you did and with the Graco the fine finish one? It would probably work I think.
> 
> ...


Fine finish tips have dual atomization chambers. They atomized the fluid twice to get the finer finish than the regular tips.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Heating up the primer will help. I'll give mine a hot bath about 15-20 minutes before spraying whenever possible. It also allows you to spray at a lower pressure.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Ff tips are a double orifice. The carbide is cut finer. Therefore giving you finer atomization and less grit no matter the paint. 
That being said. We have used Graco tips from 619 down to 210. Even brand new rac x 517 finger bad right away.
Again, just stating fact. 
Graco is mediocre compared to Tritech. Tips or pumps, Tritech is far superior.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Thank you, good explanation.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Good explanation, The Cutting Edge.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

A 2-10 is too narrow IMO for doors. The wider the fan the better the atomization for the same amount of paint. I suggest a 4-10 or 4-12 for doors. The wider fan helps. As was mentioned the coating was probably too thick. Thin or heat. 
Regarding the numbers, as far a I know there aren't normal tips ending in even numbers. The even number tips are fine finish, so you can't have 2-10 single orifice. They are double orifice


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

Every once in a while I learn something here. Still. 
Ok the ff tips have 2 orifices while a regular tip has 1. and also the even number mystery solved. Even numbers are ff. hmm.
Thanks Damon.

Now while we are on the subject, why does Graco make at least two different housings and kinds of tips and they don't interchange with each Other? What's that all about?


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

Oden said:


> Every once in a while I learn something here. Still.
> Ok the ff tips have 2 orifices while a regular tip has 1. and also the even number mystery solved. Even numbers are ff. hmm.
> Thanks Damon.
> 
> Now while we are on the subject, why does Graco make at least two different housings and kinds of tips and they don't interchange with each Other? What's that all about?


It's about forcing you to buy more spray tip housings. The fine finish tips are more expensive as well.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Oden;101168
Now while we are on the subject said:


> SemiproJohn said:
> 
> 
> > It's about forcing you to buy more spray tip housings. The fine finish tips are more expensive as well.
> ...


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

We have have used a 619 single orifice Graco tip down to a 210 Graco ff tip


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## canopainting (Feb 12, 2013)

The smallest tip I've ever used is a 1.9


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Again adding to my comments on Tritech ff tips. 
Today I'm blown away at how great of a finish we achieved, spraying Advance semi gloss with a tritech 212 ff tip. I will submit photos tomorrow. This trim is quite detailed when it was milled. That being said, as I recall in the past we encountered the same type of trim on a project and used a Graco ff tip 212 with Advance. We had many runs after the first coat and the coverage wasn't near as good as the Tritech tip. 
Hmmmm... better coverage, no drips, less paint used. What impressed us the most was the casings inside the closets. With the majority of the closets being plastic off and only the casings exposed the spacing left to even spray is very Limited and tight. Even with that small amount of space we were able to achieve a nearly flawless finish with the try tech tip. I know having attempted is with the Graco tips, there was no way that we could have accomplish this without several runs due to the tip. Same product same color yet a completely different results because of the tip. Because of the success we have achieved in the past two projects with advance and try tech tips, we will be using this paint for practically every trim project that requires spraying. 
The results do speak for themselves. I finish that looks and feels just like old school oil enamel, yet sprayed out two coats in one day with excellent spray tip.


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

Zoomer said:


> Again adding to my comments on Tritech ff tips.
> Today I'm blown away at how great of a finish we achieved, spraying Advance semi gloss with a tritech 212 ff tip. I will submit photos tomorrow. This trim is quite detailed when it was milled. That being said, as I recall in the past we encountered the same type of trim on a project and used a Graco ff tip 212 with Advance. We had many runs after the first coat and the coverage wasn't near as good as the Tritech tip.
> Hmmmm... better coverage, no drips, less paint used. What impressed us the most was the casings inside the closets. With the majority of the closets being plastic off and only the casings exposed the spacing left to even spray is very Limited and tight. Even with that small amount of space we were able to achieve a nearly flawless finish with the try tech tip. I know having attempted is with the Graco tips, there was no way that we could have accomplish this without several runs due to the tip. Same product same color yet a completely different results because of the tip. Because of the success we have achieved in the past two projects with advance and try tech tips, we will be using this paint for practically every trim project that requires spraying.
> The results do speak for themselves. I finish that looks and feels just like old school oil enamel, yet sprayed out two coats in one day with excellent spray tip.


Zoomer ... been reading this post from the beginning

being we do a lot of cabinets and truly understand the importance of a quality finish and more important is having a contractor that cares like you do 

:notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:

for what it's worth ....much respect from Repaint Florida 

.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Thanks for the comment. I really appreciate it.


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## STAR (Nov 26, 2010)

Zoomer I think your onto something. I also have experienced fingering and wider spray fans than advertised. As of recent it seems I need to increase my pump pressure to get an even fan. This is not only with Advance but other coatings as well. The common denominator has been new Graco fine finish tips.

I will try a Tritech tip and report back.


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## STAR (Nov 26, 2010)

Btw, where is the best place to buy from? I'm in Canada, not sure if they have a dealer up here.


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## matt19422 (Oct 2, 2009)

Ive read this whole thread and think I'm going to try the tritech tips to see for myself, where do you buy them online?


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

I've been doing some reading about these Tritech spray tips, both the ultra fine finish and those ending in odd numbers. It seems the T93R spray guard fits most other manufacturers' airless spray guns and accepts most spray tips. Also nice is the way the seal that goes into the guard fits onto the side of the spray tip for easy installation. I always have a bit of a hard time putting the Graco seals in because that takes dexterity, or really small fingers, or both.

http://www.tritechindustries.com/T93R-reversible-tip.php


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

I know you will have success


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

If you can't find them let me know, I will give you the number of my Tritech rep. He will help you.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Or both... Man I thought I was the only one with that problem.


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## Gracobucks (May 29, 2011)

SemiproJohn said:


> I've been doing some reading about these Tritech spray tips, both the ultra fine finish and those ending in odd numbers. It seems the T93R spray guard fits most other manufacturers' airless spray guns and accepts most spray tips. Also nice is the way the seal that goes into the guard fits onto the side of the spray tip for easy installation. I always have a bit of a hard time putting the Graco seals in because that takes dexterity, or really small fingers, or both.
> 
> http://www.tritechindustries.com/T93R-reversible-tip.php


The Graco seals install the same way.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Results of Tritech ff tip
More pics to follow soon


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Advance semi gloss in BM oc-117 and BM ac-27


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

This is a project completed using Tritech tips. We used Smart prime by rust-oleum and Advance semi gloss in 2 different colors, except the handrail. We used BM alkyd urethane gloss for extreme durability. 
The primer was sprayed with a tritech 211 single orifice tip. The paint was sprayed with a Tritech ff 212 tip.
No runs or sags with Advance which is typical due to its thin viscosity. 
Definitely credit should be given to the superiority of Tritech ff tips as comparison to what we use to use, (Graco ff tips).
Of course I have a Tritech t-7 sprayer, and it is head and shoulders above my Graco 495. I sold the 495. Had no use for it after 1 year of use and still in like new condition.
Thanks to my Tritech rep. He went out his way to get these tips in my hand a couple of weeks back. 
No longer are we reluctant to use the temperamental Advance. 
The results we achieved are attributed to Tritech and the excellent tools of the trade that they manufacturer.


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## Toolnut (Nov 23, 2012)

Went to their website to try and find a dealer near me. Was in a hurry so maybe I didn't navigate it correctly, but seemed there website is next to worthless.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Toolnut said:


> Went to their website to try and find a dealer near me. Was in a hurry so maybe I didn't navigate it correctly, but seemed there website is next to worthless.


If you can't find a rep in your area then let me know and I will get you my phone number then you can text me and I will hook you up with my rep. From there he can get you in touch with a rep near you


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Adding to this thread again. We started another project and are having excellent results with Tritech FF tips and advance semi gloss.
This particular project has fluted casings and is extremely difficult to get a good finish into all of the cracks and crevices. Two coats of advance with no runs or sags. The finish is looking quite incredible.
Imo Tritech FF tips are the best.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

I've got another set of cabinets to do with breakthrough coming up. Last time I used a graco ff 212 and had the same fingerings issues didn't matter what pressure I shot it at the tip would finger. 

For the next set I'm gonna order a tritech tip, which tip guard do you need for them? 

Sent from my LG-H810 using Tapatalk


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Rbriggs82 said:


> I've got another set of cabinets to do with breakthrough coming up. Last time I used a graco ff 212 and had the same fingerings issues didn't matter what pressure I shot it at the tip would finger.
> 
> For the next set I'm gonna order a tritech tip, which tip guard do you need for them?
> 
> Sent from my LG-H810 using Tapatalk


Unfortunately a Graco tip guard will not work. Though a Titan tip guard will work with the Tritech FF tips.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Good deal I've got a couple Titan guards laying around. 

Sent from my LG-H810 using Tapatalk


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## PNW Painter (Sep 5, 2013)

Zoomer, thanks for sharing your experiences with the Tritech tips. It's helpful for the rest of us since its a fairly new company. 

Like you, I've had several Graco tips that continue to have fingers well beyond the pressure that they should have disappeared. Of course many painters probably don't realize that they have an issue with their tips because they always set the pressure on their pumps so high.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

PNW Painter said:


> Zoomer, thanks for sharing your experiences with the Tritech tips. It's helpful for the rest of us since its a fairly new company.
> 
> Like you, I've had several Graco tips that continue to have fingers well beyond the pressure that they should have disappeared. Of course many painters probably don't realize that they have an issue with their tips because they always set the pressure on their pumps so high.


You are correct.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Zoomer said:


> Unfortunately a Graco tip guard will not work. Though a Titan tip guard will work with the Tritech FF tips.


Maybe just the Graco RAC X won't work? Larger diameter for RAC X tips only. 

I figured the old Graco housing (RAC V?) would be the same as Titan.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

The beast that starts the sweet process. The ff tips are part of the success that continually happens when contractors give them a try.


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## The Cutting Edge (May 25, 2014)

She's a beauty Zoomer. If my airlesscos ever have to be replaced that's what ill be buying. Especially after Graco done bought em out.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

The Cutting Edge said:


> She's a beauty Zoomer. If my airlesscos ever have to be replaced that's what ill be buying. Especially after Graco done bought em out.


You won't ever look back. In fact you might, like I did, wonder why you didn't get one of these sooner. 
Rumor has it that Tritech is coming out with a T-9 next year. I'm sure it will blow the doors off of any Graco large contractor pumps.
Today we started spraying trim and some built ins on a 12,500 Sq ft house using Advance semi gloss. 
After one coat in the 1000 Sq ft master B&B the homeowner and designer commented that it looked like semi gloss oil.
Not once did I ever accomplish this with my Graco and Graco ff tips.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Sounds great. Where did you get yours? I haven't seen any locally.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Damon T said:


> Sounds great. Where did you get yours? I haven't seen any locally.


Our local Ben moore stores just brought them in this past summer. They let me demo one and I ordered one within 5 minutes of using it. Of course I did my research first. 
After the first 5 minutes of using the T-7 and one of their 212 ff tips while spraying Regal select semi gloss I dumped my Graco 495. 
Never had I obtained results like this with any other spray equipment, regardless of the manufacturer.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Damon T said:


> Sounds great. Where did you get yours? I haven't seen any locally.


Let me know if you are interested. My Tritech rep can get you in touch with someone in your area.


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## PNW Painter (Sep 5, 2013)

I reached out to TriTech and they said that Universal Repair in Seattle has inventory, but I haven't reached out to them to see what they have in stock.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

PNW Painter said:


> I reached out to TriTech and they said that Universal Repair in Seattle has inventory, but I haven't reached out to them to see what they have in stock.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Good luck. Let me know if buy one and have any questions.


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## PNW Painter (Sep 5, 2013)

I bought a 640 two years ago, so I'm only interested in the tips for now


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## canopainting (Feb 12, 2013)

Zoomer said:


> Today, after looking at the built-ins that I sprayed over the weekend, I determined that this is the best that Advance has ever turned out on all of the jobs that I have used it for. This is the first job that I used the Tritech tip in conjunction with Advance. I close my eyes and felt the surfaces whether it was horizontal or vertical surfaces. The finish was baby butt smooth. I attribute the smooth finish to the Tritech tip. I do believe that Benjamin Moore intended Advance to look and feel this good under ideal conditions. With the Tritech the conditions were not ideal yet the results were incredible.[/quote


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## STAR (Nov 26, 2010)

Zoomer,

What size tips do you suggest from tritech for millwork using Advance? 212ff for casings and 412ff for doors? Starting a new custom soon and would like to try the tritech tips.

Thanks


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## goga (Aug 6, 2015)

I get the fuss about the tips, they are plus minus better worse, yet what is the bragging about the pump brands? Smaller-larger yes, but brands? They are just pumps and keeps the pressure at the tip. 495 is a junk to begin with for any type of fine work. I'm using 450 which is twenty years old and it is a far better for anything 495 was designed for. For trim best thing in my case is 695 maxII with 100ft hose, using 211 on trim and 311 or 413 on doors graco does very fine job, have and tried tritech 312, too dusty, prefer graco. It is more to what one got used to than actual "quality" of application, which at the end gets the same outcome.. dry, smooth, factory looking finish.

PS: comparing 495 to T7 is like T7 to 950 MaxII.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

STAR,
I suggest the 212 for casings, base and trim, a maximum of 312 for doors, though I find that a 212 works best for me on all doors and trim. It allows you get into all tight spots without overloading with paint. And we all know that when you overload Advance it's inevitable, it's going to sag.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

It's not bragging. It's stating an opinion. Father and grandfather had Graco, so did I. I personally have never been able to obtain these results with any other brand. Having this as my profession for most of my adult life, maybe I just need another 20 years or so of practice before I can get a graco, titan, or Airlessco to get these results so easily. Or maybe it's just because Tritech has built a better mousetrap.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

I feel like I can get a really good finish with Graco, but I also don't doubt what Zoomer is saying. My local pump repair shop recently started carrying Tri-Tech pumps and tips. I'm looking forward to trying them out, based on Zoomer's recommendation.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

All that crown with a Tritech ff tip


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## superdavie (Dec 29, 2015)

sounds your really sold on this


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## superdavie (Dec 29, 2015)

Zoomer said:


> All that crown with a Tritech ff tip


that kinda nice


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## goga (Aug 6, 2015)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> I feel like I can get a really good finish with Graco, but I also don't doubt what Zoomer is saying. My local pump repair shop recently started carrying Tri-Tech pumps and tips. I'm looking forward to trying them out, based on Zoomer's recommendation.


All I was trying to get across was that pump is pump it pumps and tip is just that, it sprays, covers the thing with the coat of paint which dries and becomes solid looking coat of paint. No matter what pump it is and what tip it is, it is a matter of know how. Give that tritech set to someone who does not know what they do and tritech makes no difference with any other brand. 

Not saying that one brand is better built that the other, but they all pump and deliver paint onto the surface.

PS: some people at my resent job were actually asking, is this plastic? looking at the latex finish on millwork. I'm sure it can be done with any brand of sprayer.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

goga said:


> All I was trying to get across was that pump is pump it pumps and tip is just that, it sprays, covers the thing with the coat of paint which dries and becomes solid looking coat of paint. No matter what pump it is and what tip it is, it is a matter of know how. Give that tritech set to someone who does not know what they do and tritech makes no difference with any other brand.
> 
> Not saying that one brand is better built that the other, but they all pump and deliver paint onto the surface.
> 
> PS: some people at my resent job were actually asking, is this plastic? looking at the latex finish on millwork. I'm sure it can be done with any brand of sprayer.


I beg to differ. Some pumps and tips are far superior.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

superdavie said:


> sounds your really sold on this


It took me 5 minutes of using the demo pump from my local BM store to decide and buy one, even though my 495 was in like new condition.


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## The Cutting Edge (May 25, 2014)

Zoomer said:


> I beg to differ. Some pumps and tips are far superior.


I agree totally. I wish you could leave Airlessco out of it though. I'm sporting all Airlessco in my line up now. Any pump repair shop will tell you that they are scarcely seen in their shops. Just sucks that they are now made by Graco.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

The Cutting Edge said:


> I agree totally. I wish you could leave Airlessco out of it though. I'm sporting all Airlessco in my line up now. Any pump repair shop will tell you that they are scarcely seen in their shops. Just sucks that they are now made by Graco.


We know what's going to happen now that great Co has taken over them. Their quality will diminish and before you know it the name will be diluted substantially


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Typo, Graco


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Zoomer said:


> Typo, Graco


You're a poet and don't know it. :jester:


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## ElTacoPaco (Dec 11, 2015)

woodcoyote said:


> I'll have to try some tritech this week or early next. See how it goes.
> 
> I'm always open to new stuff. I've seen their pumps and used their guns. Good stuff, no doubt about it.
> 
> I've been told that the primary founders came from Graco and the other from Titan. Knowing the pros/cons they set out to improve and make better pumps/products.


Is thay not always the story


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## ElTacoPaco (Dec 11, 2015)

Zoomer said:


> Again adding to my comments on Tritech ff tips.
> Today I'm blown away at how great of a finish we achieved, spraying Advance semi gloss with a tritech 212 ff tip. I will submit photos tomorrow. This trim is quite detailed when it was milled. That being said, as I recall in the past we encountered the same type of trim on a project and used a Graco ff tip 212 with Advance. We had many runs after the first coat and the coverage wasn't near as good as the Tritech tip.
> Hmmmm... better coverage, no drips, less paint used. What impressed us the most was the casings inside the closets. With the majority of the closets being plastic off and only the casings exposed the spacing left to even spray is very Limited and tight. Even with that small amount of space we were able to achieve a nearly flawless finish with the try tech tip. I know having attempted is with the Graco tips, there was no way that we could have accomplish this without several runs due to the tip. Same product same color yet a completely different results because of the tip. Because of the success we have achieved in the past two projects with advance and try tech tips, we will be using this paint for practically every trim project that requires spraying.
> The results do speak for themselves. I finish that looks and feels just like old school oil enamel, yet sprayed out two coats in one day with excellent spray tip.


How do you finish the job in one dsy when the recoat time is so ridiculous and lets not get started with the curatiion


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## ElTacoPaco (Dec 11, 2015)

Zoomer said:


> Advance semi gloss in BM oc-117 and BM ac-27


Color of the year 2016 
Btw how did that color cover for you? From what the dealers say (BM) it is not a good covering color and also was wonder how it did with Advance


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## ElTacoPaco (Dec 11, 2015)

Zoomer said:


> Last week we had an entire wall of custom-made bookshelves and entertainment center for a client.
> It was primarily built from MDF stock. We speceded out advance semi gloss for this project. We had determined that we would be using XIM uma primer.
> After all the prep work had been completed we started to spray out the doors with a Graco fine finish tip.
> The tip was practically brand new and had only two gallons of paint put through it. I am using my Tritech 7 spray pump for this project. Pressure was at about 1800 psi. Testing the pressure back and forth until the fingers on the spray pattern went away. Unfortunately even with the new tip, both filters on the pump were cleaned and no debris inside them, all of the primer was brand new and had been strained, no other variables to allow for problems, and still we had large fingers on each side of our spray pattern with the pressure turned nearly all the way or all the down or anywhere in between . We decided to spray the doors anyway with this tip. They look like crap with the primer being sprayed. I have discovered that Graco tips have turned to mush and are no longer as good as they used to be. Right out of the package we experience these terrible fingers with most of their tips regardless of size. Without fail every time we buy a new tip we change out the gaskets on the tip guard as well. I do believe it is the manufacturer that no longer manufactures a good tip. Others will chime in and disagree with my statement. I will say this as far as the quality of Graco. 212 fine finish tip placed 14 inches away from the surface gave us a five and a half inch pattern with heavy fingers during the spray. We switched tips to a worn-out Tritech 211 regular orifice tip. No fingers and half pressure on the pump gave us an excellent result. On Saturday October 30th we sanded everything down and got ready to spray everything with advance semi gloss. The night before I had called around to our local Benjamin Moore shop and had discovered that they were out of Tritech fine finish tips. I then called my local tri tech rep, he took the time to meet me and gave me a fine finish tip at no cost. The next day using this tip was amazing. As always I changed the gaskets on the tip guard and at about 3/8 pressure tested the pattern. The pattern was completely flawless and it measured a true 4 inches at 10 inches away from the surface. I sprayed out two coats of advance, letting it dry in between coats. This was the first time I had sprayed advance with a Tritech fine finish tip. I have sprayed hundreds of gallons of advance with Graco fine finish tips and have noticed that no matter what I am always left with at least a couple of runs after the first coat. When I inspected the first coat using the Tritech fine finish tip I noticed that I had one very small run on such a large project. These built-ins were some wide open areas and a lot of tight little boxes that required quickly spraying as to not to get too much paint on the surface. Most guys know that with advance there is going to be some runs no matter what. It is the most stubborn paint on the market. But it is an excellent product after it has dried. What I concluded is that Tritech is far superior to Graco. The pumps and the tips are really head and shoulders above Graco. I did speak to my local Graco Rep and explain to him my findings. Of course he disagreed and thought that I was doing something wrong not to achieve results with Graco. I mention to him that I have given Graco the benefit of the doubt with several new tips over the past months. The results are the same with every new tip out of the package. Heavy fingers and a subpar results. Tritech is flawless immediately with the first trigger pull. No longer will I use Graco, I will only use Tritech because my results speak for themselves. We have noticed since switching from Graco pumps to Tri tech, we use less paint and our results have been vastly improved ever since. I am fully confident of spraying Advance regardless of the situation since I now use Tritech fine finish tips exclusively. We pride ourselves on knowing how to spray having been taught by father and grandfather who sprayed as well. They to used Graco pumps since the late 60s. This was my very first tri tech pump and I will never go back to Graco. Tritech is engineered far above any other pump. No I am NOT a spokesman for Tritech, but I am pissed off at how much Graco has gone downhill over the years.
> Graco no longer matters to me and I will only recommend to anybody who wants to achieve excellent results with less effort, Tritech is the way to go.


I am a noob what is a finger?


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

To answer some of your questions. First a finger means that at the edges of the spray pattern it is very light and sometimes no spray pattern at all and the spray pattern becomes thicker the closer to the middle you get. This lack of paint on the edges is called fingering. Your second question about advance, yes two coats can be sprayed in a single day. It dries a lot faster than a lot of the paint contractors let on. Under normal conditions inside a house when the temperature is 72 80 degrees inside, advance can drive in less than 2 hours and you are ready to spray on a second coat. The colors that you brought up, the grey and the white both covered very well with two coats. It is a matter of getting good codes onto the surface. If you look through this thread I'm sure you will see the doors that were sprayed. They were in a horizontal position in our door stacking system. This allowed that we were able to get very thick coats and excellent coverage with a good build of paint


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## The Cutting Edge (May 25, 2014)

ElTacoPaco said:


> I am a noob what is a finger?


Its when you make a pass with the airless and you get a heavy line in the fan pattern on the edges instead of a nice fade away on the edge.


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## The Cutting Edge (May 25, 2014)

You beat me to it. I thought Eltaco and I were the only poor saps here on new years eve tonight.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

The Cutting Edge said:


> Its when you make a pass with the airless and you get a heavy line in the fan pattern on the edges instead of a nice fade away on the edge.


Well said


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

Zoomer said:


> To answer some of your questions. First a finger means that at the edges of the spray pattern it is very light and sometimes no spray pattern at all and the spray pattern becomes thicker the closer to the middle you get. This lack of paint on the edges is called fingering. Your second question about advance, yes two coats can be sprayed in a single day. It dries a lot faster than a lot of the paint contractors let on. Under normal conditions inside a house when the temperature is 72 80 degrees inside, advance can drive in less than 2 hours and you are ready to spray on a second coat. The colors that you brought up, the grey and the white both covered very well with two coats. It is a matter of getting good codes onto the surface. If you look through this thread I'm sure you will see the doors that were sprayed. They were in a horizontal position in our door stacking system. This allowed that we were able to get very thick coats and excellent coverage with a good build of paint


How long have you been 2 coating with Advance in the same day? No issues?

It certainly dries to the touch within an hour but the solvents haven't had time to flash off if you recoat that soon. My rep was adamant about 1 coat/day. He had several contractors do this and they all had issues, delamination and curing/hardness problems.

I admit it is very tempting to do given its initial tack free time. Actually the last time I used the SG it's open time was much shorter then before. I thought it was the temp but I was using Aura SG the same room and it stayed open longer.


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## goga (Aug 6, 2015)

Zoomer said:


> We know what's going to happen now that great Co has taken over them. Their quality will diminish and before you know it the name will be diluted substantially


Isn't it the idea of buying competition? To diminish and extinguish in order to have their own self and only? Yet, my point stands, there is no superior or inferior, there are things which one got used to, likes or have to use in order to achieve same results.


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## goga (Aug 6, 2015)

Anything less than 2300 psi will leave lines on the sides. Anything closer than 2' will leave lines on the sides. Anything less than simple thinking and observeability will leave to wish for better atomization.

PS: my Tritech fine tips just resting in case, heavy middle, nothing on the edges.


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## The Cutting Edge (May 25, 2014)

So if I'm spraying base or window casing I should make sure I stay at least 2' away to keep from getting fingering in my fan? I bet it'll really be a nice finish at 3' away. I hold 12 to 14" away which is what I'm sure most people do or are supposed to do. Certain paints react differently to atomization. And yes some pumps are different than other pumps. For instance the long stroke of an airlessco vs the short stroke of a titan. The titan is going to be harder on the packing, motor, piston, and valve seats. Dc motors are usually bigger than ac motors. They turn slower, last longer, and are totally enclosed. Dc's can run off of longer extension chords and smaller generators. Some pumps you can adjust the upper and lower packings externally. Some you cant. So yes there are a few differences.


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## The Cutting Edge (May 25, 2014)

Some brands rate psi and gpm at the manifold. Some rate it at the end of a hose. Makes a difference. I have an Airlessco lp 460 that is rated at.46 gpm. It runs circles around my graco 495 and my titan 440 and both of those are rated at .54 gpm.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

PRC said:


> How long have you been 2 coating with Advance in the same day? No issues?
> 
> It certainly dries to the touch within an hour but the solvents haven't had time to flash off if you recoat that soon. My rep was adamant about 1 coat/day. He had several contractors do this and they all had issues, delamination and curing/hardness problems.
> 
> I admit it is very tempting to do given its initial tack free time. Actually the last time I used the SG it's open time was much shorter then before. I thought it was the temp but I was using Aura SG the same room and it stayed open longer.


Here are two different pictures in the same house. Both areas, as well as the entire house was coated with two coats of advance semi gloss. Every section was done two coats in one day. No problems with curing, touch up was incredibly easy. And no issues to speak of


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## ElTacoPaco (Dec 11, 2015)

Zoomer said:


> Here are two different pictures in the same house. Both areas, as well as the entire house was coated with two coats of advance semi gloss. Every section was done two coats in one day. No problems with curing, touch up was incredibly easy. And no issues to speak of


I applied two coats on the same day and had the top coat become very soft 
I am assuming that was because the curatiion of the first coat was trapped once the second went on


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## Boco (May 18, 2013)

What about the doors? Do you hit them twice in the same day? I don't use much Advanced but really like the way Regal select and Impervo sprays for doors. My next project is a 27 year old repaint with trim and doors having been done in oil. Will the Advanced be a good fit here? It was originally Pure white but now with age its more of a yellow in color.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Yes two coats in one day


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## goga (Aug 6, 2015)

Happy New Year, everyone! Wish ya all find a perfect tool to get a perfect look to make customer happy. Happy people lots of fun.


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## goga (Aug 6, 2015)

Zoomer said:


> Yes two coats in one day


Interesting setup, wondering how do you keep bottom panels from overspray on top? Is it one side at a time? Just don't see how the bottom part of doors get a coat.. seams like a lot of work though, I do them standing.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

What you don't see is to the left of the picture is too soft horses with one door on it. You spray one side and then you grab the handle and flip it over to the other side spray that's fine as well. Upon sprained both sides you move them over and start stacking them as the picture shows. It allows for the doors to dry fairly quickly and then you repeat the process again for two coats in one day


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Saw horses


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

This horizontal process allows for much quicker coats with zero sags. It also allows that you have to use substantially less area to spray paint doors. Once you get these handles on each side of the door this tool becomes invaluable. By far the best method for spraying doors we've ever come across.


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

Hey Zoomer, when you get the opportunity in the future can you show pictures of these "handles?" I'm still trying to understand how a door can be sprayed while atop a set of sawhorses and turned while the first side is wet without the wet side getting marred by the sawhorses. Even if the first sprayed side was dry, in my experience it would still get marred when put on the saw horses in order to spray the other side.


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

I'm sure there is a way due to all the people on here posting their door rack systems. I've always sprayed them standing up. One coat on one side, let dry, another coat. Then turn door and repeat. I'd love to try a more efficient method.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

SemiproJohn said:


> Hey Zoomer, when you get the opportunity in the future can you show pictures of these "handles?" I'm still trying to understand how a door can be sprayed while atop a set of sawhorses and turned while the first side is wet without the wet side getting marred by the sawhorses. Even if the first sprayed side was dry, in my experience it would still get marred when put on the saw horses in order to spray the other side.


Here is another photo that maybe shows with more clarity. If you blow up the picture you can see the door handles. They are designed in such a way that you can stack the the handles on top of each other. You can also order these from a place in Amarillo Texas. They are called door deckers


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

The handles are made of metal. The metal is the part that sits on the saw horses. Spray one side, grab the handles with a partner and flip over to spray the other side. Then stack the metal door handles on top of each other to dry


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

Ok. Now that makes sense.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

door deckers painting


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

By the way, great thread Zoomer!


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## goga (Aug 6, 2015)

SemiproJohn said:


> I'm sure there is a way due to all the people on here posting their door rack systems. I've always sprayed them standing up. One coat on one side, let dry, another coat. Then turn door and repeat. I'd love to try a more efficient method.


The most efficient method, the most productive as a matter of fact, I can squeeze 20 doors on 15' of wall space is ////. If space is not a concern, I usually put two small wooden bumps on the bottom, so they don't touch the floor and can be spun and two sticks on top to handle them. Spray one side, turn, spray the other, put next one next to it.. it takes wall space, yet they can be put on a good angle and don't sag even with thick coat. Yeah, heater and fan do the drying a matter or couple of hours for next coats if necessary.


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

goga said:


> The most efficient method, the most productive as a matter of fact, I can squeeze 20 doors on 15' of wall space is ////. If space is not a concern, I usually put two small wooden bumps on the bottom, so they don't touch the floor and can be spun and two sticks on top to handle them. Spray one side, turn, spray the other, put next one next to it.. it takes wall space, yet they can be put on a good angle and don't sag even with thick coat. Yeah, heater and fan do the drying a matter or couple of hours for next coats if necessary.


That's been pretty much my method. Except I've neglected the two sticks on top for making turning easy. Again, thanks! I'm learning tons here tonight and appreciate the input of you more experienced people.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

When it comes to drying racks for cab doors or stacking systems like the door deckers or whatever, some here have balked at the expense involved. For the most part, it's a one time expense that will return dollars over and over again. 

I've got about $300 invested in what I will forever call the "Schmidt Rack" for drying cab doors. I can do 66 cab doors at a time (one side). In the couple of years I've had them, I've done probably 600+ cab doors (off the top of my head). So in two years, that's less than 50 cents per door. 

Think of drying rack systems like 24' ladders. With care, they'll last forever.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

SemiproJohn said:


> By the way, great thread Zoomer!


Glad I could help.


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