# Plaster Crack - repair + re-paint same day



## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

I know there are differences in chemical dry vs. air dry, and recommended primers, but would welcome a refresher course.

Need to tape and plaster- same day if possible. Smooth finish wall.Using Fiberglass tape. 

What should I use to plaster/prime/paint in the same day (without any adhesion issues or other worries). Which plaster compound is suitable to multiple coats (to achieve smooth finish) and also painting the same day. Primer recommendation to pair with it?


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

A 15 minute hot mud would be best. However, I have found that even under optimal conditions you can apply several coats on the same day, but I have almost always had to wait over night for a complete dry.

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## jr.sr. painting (Dec 6, 2013)

Something that small 20 min Durabond. Followed by another coat of setting compound usually ez sand 20 to float it out a little more and a tight skim with green lid. Make sure you have a couple of fans moving the air around. Prime using a simple drywall primer or ceiling flat. You don’t want it to flash through. A very easy one day job. 


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## PNW Painter (Sep 5, 2013)

You’re really pushing it trying to do everything in one day. You’ll have to use really think coats of mud, but if the humidity is really high you’re probably screwed trying to do it in one day.

Unless you’ve got other projects, I’d hate to be sitting around all day waiting for everything to dry between coats.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

PNW Painter said:


> You’re really pushing it trying to do everything in one day. You’ll have to use really think coats of mud, but if the humidity is really high you’re probably screwed trying to do it in one day.
> 
> Unless you’ve got other projects, I’d hate to be sitting around all day waiting for everything to dry between coats.
> 
> ...


It is a matter of travel time and the smallness of the job, for a valued client's sister.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Pete Martin the Painter said:


> A 15 minute hot mud would be best. However, I have found that even under optimal conditions you can apply several coats on the same day, but I have almost always had to wait over night for a complete dry.
> 
> Sent from my SM-A600U using Tapatalk


It is my understanding that some "new plaster" (less than 21 days old) requires a specific primer? is that true anymore? ph?


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

Holland said:


> It is my understanding that some "new plaster" (less than 21 days old) requires a specific primer? is that true anymore? ph?


Gypsum type setting compound & veneer plaster can receive final decoration when dry, which is usually specified as next day. No special primer is needed.


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## Gracobucks (May 29, 2011)

I would use con fill. It's made for patch concrete ceiling but lots of people around here use it for patching drywall. It sets up quick and sands easy. With this stuff and a hair dryer you can easily do it in a day.


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

I've used a heat gun in the past to speed dry patches.


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## jennifertemple (Oct 30, 2011)

On plaster cracks I always excavate the crack a little and make the first fill a 20 or 45 durabond fill because mud does not bind well with old plaster. I do the finish coat of fill with Widening the crack with a small chisel or screw driver is VERY important for a sound & lasting repair! Just scrape it a bit to widen the crack. I use a hot mud finish coat.


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## jennifertemple (Oct 30, 2011)

Gracobucks said:


> I would use con fill. It's made for patch concrete ceiling but lots of people around here use it for patching drywall. It sets up quick and sands easy. With this stuff and a hair dryer you can easily do it in a day.


He is doing plaster not drywall. Plaster can be pretty sensitive about what will bond to it well.


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## jennifertemple (Oct 30, 2011)

Holland said:


> It is my understanding that some "new plaster" (less than 21 days old) requires a specific primer? is that true anymore? ph?


 Yes, but that would not apply to a filled crack if that fill was durabond & mud.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Gracobucks said:


> I would use con fill. It's made for patch concrete ceiling but lots of people around here use it for patching drywall. It sets up quick and sands easy. With this stuff and a hair dryer you can easily do it in a day.


Good suggestion. I’ll try it if I can find it... 

Maybe only available in Canada(?) but looks like a product I want to try out.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

The CGC and Durabond 20 min. are pretty much the same thing. Youll have to use the 20 min. though not the 45 min. if you want to do in 1 day. 45 likes to takes its sweet time I find.. If your really in a pinch, you could chance using Aura direct over your repair. Maybe it will flash.., maybe it wont! Depends if your a gambling man. But you could quickly spot it, get the fans on it and hit it again and done. Or any old latex primer will do.


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## Gracobucks (May 29, 2011)

jennifertemple said:


> Gracobucks said:
> 
> 
> > I would use con fill. It's made for patch concrete ceiling but lots of people around here use it for patching drywall. It sets up quick and sands easy. With this stuff and a hair dryer you can easily do it in a day.
> ...


I understand he is patching plaster. It's the way I would patch it. Con fill is also fiberglass reinforced, which will eliminate some cracking problems. It's designed for patching air holes on concrete ceilings but works good on any surface. It looks just like fast set and sand really easy. I've seen tapers fill electrical boxes with this stuff and it was ready for paint 3-4 hours after.


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## Mr Smith (Mar 11, 2016)

hot mudd works best with fibatape. Then topcoat with all-purpose.


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## jeffnc (Mar 14, 2011)

Holland said:


> I know there are differences in chemical dry vs. air dry



First you need to understand the properties of the materials you're dealing with. It's not chemical _dry_, it's chemical _cure_, or more commonly set. So it's setting compound vs. drying compound.

This is important because setting compound sets up hard before it dries (normally). Drying compound must dry _to_ set up. So while setting compound sets up relatively quickly, it does not dry any faster than drying compound. It gets hard enough to lay the next coat on it, but it does not get dry enough to sand or paint until the next day. I suppose that could be sped up if you're not doing deep joints with paper tape. I would recommend FibaFuse instead of the fiberglass mesh tape you're talking about, since it's stronger. But anyway, if you got it warm in there and got a fan on it, I guess 3 coats could dry in 8 hours.


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## jeffnc (Mar 14, 2011)

finishesbykevyn said:


> The CGC and Durabond 20 min. are pretty much the same thing. Youll have to use the 20 min. though not the 45 min. if you want to do in 1 day. 45 likes to takes its sweet time I find..



Well really those are just ballparks. 45 min is 20 min if it's hot, and 20 min is 45 min if it's cold.


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

jeffnc said:


> Well really those are just ballparks. 45 min is 20 min if it's hot, and 20 min is 45 min if it's cold.


And if it's hot and you use five, it will start turning to rock in 2 minutes, 5 minutes if the area is relatively cool. Remember that doesn't mean it's ready to prime or paint. Also if your knives or mud pan are dirty, it will set up faster!
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Sheetro...tting-Type-Joint-Compound-384150060/202329628


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Thanks Dr. Technical. I'm Just saying that under normal circumstances. 70degs @50% humidy. he has a better chance of completing a repair in 1 day using 20 min. vs. 45. And yes it can be done. Final coat with a compound will look nicer and be easier to work with, but really chancing having it not dry.. Regular compound mud takes forever, especially any thick spots..
Either way, bring your heat gun/hair dryer or there will be lots of standing around..watching paint dry..



jeffnc said:


> Well really those are just ballparks. 45 min is 20 min if it's hot, and 20 min is 45 min if it's cold.


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Thanks Dr. Technical. I'm Just saying that under normal circumstances. 70degs @50% humidy. he has a better chance of completing a repair in 1 day using 20 min. vs. 45. And yes it can be done. Final coat with a compound will look nicer and be easier to work with, but really chancing having it not dry.. Regular compound mud takes forever, especially any thick spots..
> Either way, bring your heat gun/hair dryer or there will be lots of standing around..watching paint dry..


You are welcome, but really how many times is work done under "normal circumstances", and do you really mean standing around and watching mud dry?


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*CGC to USG*



Gracobucks said:


> I would use con fill. It's made for patch concrete ceiling but lots of people around here use it for patching drywall. It sets up quick and sands easy. With this stuff and a hair dryer you can easily do it in a day.


This product looks interesting, but I don't believe that it is available anywhere except western Canada. I called USG in Chicago to ask them what USG product would correspond to CGC's Conrete Fill and they weren't able to tell me. I also called CGC in Ontario and am waiting for a reply from a Mr. Grant.

Anybody here have info on this?

futtyos


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Closer look*



Holland said:


> I know there are differences in chemical dry vs. air dry, and recommended primers, but would welcome a refresher course.
> 
> Need to tape and plaster- same day if possible. Smooth finish wall.Using Fiberglass tape.
> 
> What should I use to plaster/prime/paint in the same day (without any adhesion issues or other worries). Which plaster compound is suitable to multiple coats (to achieve smooth finish) and also painting the same day. Primer recommendation to pair with it?


I'v e been studying your photo. It seems that the ceiling tiles are between 8 and 12 inches. If they are 8" wide that gives me some comparison when looking at the curved crack that starts at the ceiling trim and goes down to a corner where there are 2 other cracks, one horizontal and one vertical. There also appears to be a number of nail pops to the left of the curved crack starting where the curved crack meets the ceiling trim and going down from that point in a straight line.

There appears to be shadowing on both sides of the curved crack, leading me to believe that there is loose plaster on either side of the crack extending out from about 1 to 4 inches. I wonder if these cracks and pops are due to water or moisture damage that may or may not have been taken care of. I would be curious to see the rest of the walls in this room.

You mention elsewhere that this wall belongs to the sister of a good client of yours. How good of a job do you want to do?

As far as a plaster compound that is suitable for multiple coats, I can get a surface smoother than sanded using durabond alone by scraping the hardened coat with my 6" knife, then coating right over it with more Durabond and pulling it tight. I am not sure it could be done all in one day unless you don't use tape and you dry the durabond with a hair dryer or heat gun on low.

If I was going to use fiberglass tape I would scrape off the loose paint and plaster next to the curved crack, then scrape the whole area along the crack with a 2.5" carbide scraper wide enough for the tape to sit below the level of the wall, apply a coat of Gardz to the scraped area, let that dry, apply the mesh tape, then apply a coat of Durabond and let dry thoroughly. When that is dry I would come back and scrape the area with my 6" knife, then recoat with Durabond. I might do a 3rd coat of Durabond, after which I would prime with Gardz, let dry, then paint. This is easy to do if you have a bunch of other stuff to do while waiting for Gardz and Durabond to dry.

I am sure there are fast and easy ways to do this, but I am not sure how they will hold up down the road. I have seen Kirk Giordano on Youtube filling thin plaster cracks with caulk, smear it in, then paint over it, telling the HOs that plaster cracks will always come back sooner or later.

futtyos


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

futtyos said:


> I'v e been studying your photo. It seems that the ceiling tiles are between 8 and 12 inches. If they are 8" wide that gives me some comparison when looking at the curved crack that starts at the ceiling trim and goes down to a corner where there are 2 other cracks, one horizontal and one vertical. There also appears to be a number of nail pops to the left of the curved crack starting where the curved crack meets the ceiling trim and going down from that point in a straight line.
> 
> There appears to be shadowing on both sides of the curved crack, leading me to believe that there is loose plaster on either side of the crack extending out from about 1 to 4 inches. I wonder if these cracks and pops are due to water or moisture damage that may or may not have been taken care of. I would be curious to see the rest of the walls in this room.
> 
> ...


Kirk Giordano? I've had his pizza which is pretty good, but I prefer Lou Malnati's! Didn't know he also did painting. https://giordanos.com/


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## brooklynpainters (Sep 5, 2019)

wow. very informative.


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## jennifertemple (Oct 30, 2011)

futtyos said:


> I am sure there are fast and easy ways to do this, but I am not sure how they will hold up down the road. I have seen Kirk Giordano on Youtube filling thin plaster cracks with caulk, smear it in, then paint over it, telling the HOs that plaster cracks will always come back sooner or later.
> futtyos


 He was trying to get it all done in 1 day. (A challenge for sure!)

Youtube guy is exactly the kind of "painter" I do not want to follow into a job! CAULKING! REALLY?!! he's an AH! Properly repaired the cracks do not come back! If they do, an underlying cause was not dealt with AND they will come back somewhere other than the repaired crack. I generally excavate down to the lath and make sure my durabond anchors well into the keys. Then when durabond is dry and cured, I prime and do my finish with regular mud. Believe it or not, I've never used any kind of tape on a crack and have seen some of my repairs 7-10 years later and still good. I do use tape to repair corners and edges of walls or when some idiot replaced a section of wall with drywall next to plaster and still excavate all seams, done exactly the same as cracks but with tape in a case like that.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Kirk Giordano Plastering*



jennifertemple said:


> He was trying to get it all done in 1 day. (A challenge for sure!)
> 
> Youtube guy is exactly the kind of "painter" I do not want to follow into a job! CAULKING! REALLY?!! he's an AH! Properly repaired the cracks do not come back! If they do, an underlying cause was not dealt with AND they will come back somewhere other than the repaired crack. I generally excavate down to the lath and make sure my durabond anchors well into the keys. Then when durabond is dry and cured, I prime and do my finish with regular mud. Believe it or not, I've never used any kind of tape on a crack and have seen some of my repairs 7-10 years later and still good. I do use tape to repair corners and edges of walls or when some idiot replaced a section of wall with drywall next to plaster and still excavate all seams, done exactly the same as cracks but with tape in a case like that.


Here is the Youtube guy's website:

https://www.stuccoplastering.com/

If my memory serves me correctly, here is the video that Kirk did where he describes how he approaches cracks in interior plaster:






futtyos


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## jennifertemple (Oct 30, 2011)

@*futtyos* , I would NEVER use mud to the keys and I would not fill with mud on plaster without priming it well first. Drywall mud and plaster don't like each other. Give it a few months and there will be a crack all around that large fill he did.

I have seen many of his exterior stucco videos and like what he does there! (I am not a mason but his exterior work looks good to me.) Sadly, there are few real plaster experts around anymore.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*What is Kirk doing?*



jennifertemple said:


> @*futtyos* , I would NEVER use mud to the keys and I would not fill with mud on plaster without priming it well first. Drywall mud and plaster don't like each other. Give it a few months and there will be a crack all around that large fill he did.
> 
> I have seen many of his exterior stucco videos and like what he does there! (I am not a mason but his exterior work looks good to me.) Sadly, there are few real plaster experts around anymore.


Jennifer, I encourage you to watch this video again. After Kirk has cleared the loose plaster down to the wood lathe he coats it with pink Plaster Weld. This is a glue that soaks into the wood, then dries. After it dries, Kirk uses a 20 minute hot mud mix (not drywall mud) which is probably mostly plaster of Paris (both Easy Sand and Durabond are about 2/3s plaster). The water in the hot mud reactivates the Plaster Weld pink glue which helps the hot mud adhere to the wood lathe.

If I were doing this I would probably push some of the hot mud against the wood lathe, causing it to squeeze through the openings and thus produce new keys, but my guess is that Kirk has worked long enough with Plaster Weld that he trusts it to bond the hot mud to the wood lathe.

Anyway, that's my take on this video.

futtyos


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## jennifertemple (Oct 30, 2011)

@futtyos look up some of the Master Plasterers on Youtube, those are the guys who really know plaster work! Johnny is one but there are a few others that do true historical plaster over brown coat & repair historical decorative plaster. They would never dream of using caulk or bonding agents!
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=johnny+potenza+master+plasterer


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*True plastering*



jennifertemple said:


> @futtyos look up some of the Master Plasterers on Youtube, those are the guys who really know plaster work! Johnny is one but there are a few others that do true lime plaster over brown coat & repair historical decorative plaster.
> Johnny Potenza "The Master Plasterer" Brown Coat Part 1 - YouTube


Jennifer, I have seen some of these videos and I somewhat envy their techniques. If I were to look at a job where traditional plastering was being asked to be done I would have to pass on such a job. If it were just for some minor repairs on plaster, I would use Durabond (which I have been doing since the 1980s) as it is about 67% plaster itself. I think that what Kirk Giordano does in his video keeps more in line with what Holland, the OP, is looking to do for his valued client's sister, but I could very well be wrong.

futtyos


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