# Cedar



## O'Brien (Feb 24, 2011)

Hi guys, I'm seeking advice on exterior cedar issues. I know this has been covered a few times, but would appreciate any discussion. As you can see from the photos, the cedar's seen better days. The structure was built in the mid-seventies, lakeside. The photos were taken on the west side of the building, away from the lake. Cedar was originally finished with a semi-transparent alkyd (first coat) followed by a solid alkyd. Not sure if this was done by the builder or the owner. Three years ago, portions of the exterior were refinished. Wood was sanded, primed with Benjamin Moore Exterior Stain alkyd primer, and finished with Benjamin Moore Exterior Stain acrylic solid. Advice on how to proceed would be especially welcomed from NACE, Scott, et all


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Pictures?


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## O'Brien (Feb 24, 2011)

Thought I had attached them! Sorry about that.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

That is what we call "Novelty" siding. It needs a good healthy cleaning...chem application and soft pressure wash. Then, I'd put a scuff on her and switch over to an acrylic like ProVt to break the mildew cycle. All those oil layers are a breeding ground for it. We see that alot in lakeside settings.


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## O'Brien (Feb 24, 2011)

Also, client says they restain the deck every season...


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## O'Brien (Feb 24, 2011)

Scott, is the Novelty conducive to mildew growth for a particular reason? In regards to switching over to an acrylic ... an acrylic primer plus topcoat? As mentioned, the exisiting topcoat is acrylic. Thanks for chiming in.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Novelty doesnt shed water as well as claps or shingles, as you can see from the water streaks in your picture. 

I'd run pricing on it both ways (with primer and without) and explain to the customer that when you have it all washed up you will be in a better position to explore the options with them.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

If the existing coating is sound, I do not personally believe priming again will gain anything, it may actually cause problems by no allowing the wood to breathe enough. Spot prime as needed though.

That is a lot of mildew for acrylic, but low lying areas near water can be really problematic. We have a group of homes with mildew issues and ProVT, BM acrylic stain, etc all seem similar. 

I think the customer would benefit most from an annual powerwash.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

DeanV said:


> I think the customer would benefit most from an annual powerwash.


 Bingo!


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## NACE (May 16, 2008)

In addition to a good cleaning, it might be a good idea to agitate the surface with a soft brush as that mildew looks as though it is well established. Mildew will root itself and feed on topical organic matter in addition to the organic ingredient in alkyd stais/primers. The N089 BM stain is very flat and has a rougher profile which traps dirt, a food source. Pressure washing alone may not kill the roots. I like the BM 318 Multi Purpose Clean sprayed on with a pump garden tank 1 quart solution to 1 gallon water. Rinse with clean water. Hydroxide cleaners in addition to sodium hypochlorite (bleach) are effective on porous surfaces not bleach alone. A primer is not needed nor encouraged since you are adding more weight and stress. The Aborcoat Solid Stain 640 is very smooth, has a very slight sheen, is self priming, spreads far, and has waterborne colorant that actually dries as opposed to glycol based colorants in UTC that softens and weakens paint films especially in BM products. The deck looks like they used a clear finish, almost like a Thompsons Water seal, which is nothing more then paraffin and mineral spirits. The decks needs a Wood Restorer, wood Brightener, then perhaps a semi solid WB stain? How far off the ground is the deck? Are there a lot of pine trees around? The Cabots Pro VT seems a bit gritty and course to me, like a flat paint and like the BM N089. We see similar homes here on the shoreline towns of the Connecticut River. Tons of mildew, lots of insects, and lots of dirt accumulation. The Arborcoat Solid has been very effective in combatting this environment. I'm not a big fan of the Arborcoat transparent or semi transparent that require the clear coat, but the semi solid and solid in the water based are very good, in addition to the 626 WB Hardwood Finish. It may be a good idea to include an annual cleaning and washing to remove built up organic matter to break the cycle of one of the 4 things mildew needs to survive and thrive. 1. Temps between 40-90 degrees F. 2. Oxygen. 3. Organic food source. 4. Moisture. Remove one of those things and mildew can't grow.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Use the right cleaning process, and you will look like a magician to your clients. Coating looks pretty sound from the pics.


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## O'Brien (Feb 24, 2011)

Thanks for the responses. NACE, most of the deck is suspended, so there's no ground contact, although some stairs and a landing area are close to the ground, mostly rock though. Pine trees all around. Heavy amounts of snow in the winter.


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## NACE (May 16, 2008)

O'Brien said:


> Thanks for the responses. NACE, most of the deck is suspended, so there's no ground contact, although some stairs and a landing area are close to the ground, mostly rock though. Pine trees all around. Heavy amounts of snow in the winter.


Pine is the worst mold attractant. Coat the underside of stairs with a clear or transparent sealer if possible. Dimensional stability will minimize cracking and checking. Heavy snow sitting on wood becomes immersion not splash and spill so sealing all sides stabilizes the woods moisture content.


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## tntpainting (Apr 3, 2008)

Have a deck I service every year w/similar problem I use watered down liquid pool shock on it and pw and a good sanding it did the trick you don't see any mildue or algae any more its been 2 yrs and all I need to do is maintain it now


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## Tonyg (Dec 9, 2007)

I had a large cedar house a few years ago that I used SW Deckscapes. I was competing against another (lower) bid from a contractor that recommended switching from the stain to an acrylic paint. I won the job by highlighting the advantages of using the stain.

Now a days I'm wondering if the elasticity of a premium acrylic like Aura, and maybe even a prime coat of something like a Mad Dog, would offer a superior finish to the mindset of staying with the solid acrylic stains?


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## O'Brien (Feb 24, 2011)

Now that spring is in full swing (around here, anyway) it's time I revisited this thread. Once again, I'm seeking advice on exterior cedar issues (sound familiar?) The job discussed above will be taking place this summer, but in the meantime I have another cedar related project to do. So, the requisite details. Brand new cedar fencing, installed and painted or stained last spring (not by me). The posts are existing and were not refinished when the new panels were installed. The finish is already chipped off on a small area of the new boards, doesn't look like they were primed. Photos below. As before and as always, advice on how to proceed would be especially welcome from NACE, Scott, et al.


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## O'Brien (Feb 24, 2011)

Photos


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## NACE (May 16, 2008)

Painted last year? Lots of mildew. Lots of gaps in the assembly that will contribute to premature failure. Wash. I prefer the BM 318 Multi Purpose Cleaner from a pump garden sprayer. Sand off those vine foots. Insure moisture content in those casings is 8-10% before coating. Use an acrylic urethane elastomeric sealant in those gaps and miter cuts. Make sure there is a coating or end cut sealer on boards near or ground level. Spot prime bare wood. A challenge to fix those checks and cracking in those panels. An elastomeric smooth patch knifed smooth over the checks and cracks? Top coat with Solid Stain. I'm having great success with the Aborcoat 640 or the Flood Pro. I like the finish of the Arborcoat as it is smoother and less grainy or gritty like some other brands. Doesn't hold dirt as easily therefore less prone to mildew. PM me if you want to chat. Hope that helps.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

A solid stain is basically a watered down flat paint.

Flat paints or stains are more porous than say a satin and offer more places for mildew to take hold. 

Yes the debate of stain vs paint has been beaten to death already on here. There are pros and cons to both systems. 

Bottom line is if you go with stain (watered down flat paint) it's going to need to be washed more often to keep that mildew from coming back compared to if you had a satin finish. 

If they don't want to maintain it and use preventative maintenance but still want stain, I don't see how you are going to solve the problem. Even if you go with a higher sheen/film forming system, it's going to require washing on a regular basis. 

Just because you wash and re stain it doesn't mean you're going to solve the problem, only fix it temporarily. 

Just my opinion.


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## O'Brien (Feb 24, 2011)

The posts haven't seen any real maintenance since they were built, about twenty years ago, so I would expect them to be in rough shape. I don't like the chipping on the new sections less than a year after installation, though. I was able to speak with the carpenter, who doesn't remember what product was used to finish (because it was like a year ago he said?!) but thinks it was a two-in-one paint. One more photo of the new section and one of the original section of fence. Definitely have to encourage a regular maintenance program.


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## lmvp17 (May 15, 2010)

Do what Nace says.


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