# Ode to SW



## MIZZOU (Nov 18, 2012)

You've taken a beating in PT lately. But I use your products and appreciate you greatly! 

Haters gonna hate, and there's plenty of haters here. Anyone who says SW sucks, can kiss upon my rear. 

Cashmere, solo, tread plex, promar. Pro classic, and prep rite, they've taken me far. 

(At my store) your staff is knowledgable and wise. Not using SW would be my demise. 

You've referred me to some of my best jobs to date, others will bash you but I think your great! 

Just wanted to give props, and a shout out per se. Calm down PT haters, give it a rest for 1 day!


----------



## PremierPaintingMa (Nov 30, 2014)

What have you done?:whistling2::hang:


----------



## MIZZOU (Nov 18, 2012)

If we can hear about how horrible they are everyday, surely one little positive post is acceptable?


----------



## PremierPaintingMa (Nov 30, 2014)

MIZZOU said:


> If we can hear about how horrible they are everyday, surely one little positive post is acceptable?


I will kick it off with little positive, I buy all my sprayers and equipments from SW, I always get the best price, my sales rep. is supper nice guy. I bought 4 new sprayers from him last year.
But I have to say I am a 98% Benmoore guy when it come to paint. Don't know much about their products, I can't judge.


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Sound like they are quite adequate. Why expect anything else?


----------



## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

I suppose this is as good a way as any to start the month.

Happy February PT!!!


----------



## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

I paint paint said:


> I suppose this is as good a way as any to start the month.
> 
> Happy February PT!!!


It's not February.


----------



## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

MIZZOU said:


> If we can hear about how horrible they are everyday, surely one little positive post is acceptable?


I understand the negativity towards SW, I really do. PAC, your story, well, I can't defend SW in regards to your experience, but, like MIZZOU, I have had a great experience with my LOCAL SW store. It has had 3 managers in 30+ years. All have been extremely knowledgable and helpful. The full-time employees there are well-trained professionals. I can count on one hand the mistakes they have made with my paint orders in 30+ years.

Is some of their paint garbage? Sure. Is some of it pretty good? Yes. Do they do some dumb things? Yes. We all know about the "creative" up and down daily price changes that drive all of us crazy. BUT, if you can work with them, get your contractor pricing to be consistent and adapt to the nuances of using their products, you can be quite successful in this business. I started buying at my local SW store in 1978. I've been tempted to try BM or PPG but weighing ALL of the factors of a good paintstore, I find that sticking with what works for ME to be the best option.


----------



## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

We use mostly Benjamin Moore, but we don't have any bad experiences 
when using SW. Most major manufacturers have at least sufficient product 
and services for a paint contractor.


----------



## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

My experience with my SW store, and many of their products, has also been largly positive. I'm fortunate in that I also have a regional paint company to deal with that likewise has knowledgeable employees and a good line of products. 

BM, by comparison, is only offered by a local lumber yard and a farm supply chain (Wilco). I would certainly use it more than I do if it was offerred locally by a dedicated paint store with employees who truly know what they are talking about rather than someone who begrudgingly comes over into the paint area to tint up a product for me - which is what I can expect now when I want to use a BM product.


----------



## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

epretot said:


> It's not February.


It's February somewhere.


----------



## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Wildbill7145 said:


> It's February somewhere.


Yup, should start to see our Australian and Chinese members starting to act up any minute now.


----------



## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

RH said:


> Yup, should start to see our Australian and Chinese members starting to act up any minute now.


Don't forget the Kiwis, they're already a feisty bunch. That being said, them and the Aussies probably get steady work year 'round. Not sure about that though? Can't remember if they've mentioned a slow period.

I miss Ben.


----------



## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

RH said:


> My experience with my SW store, and many of their products, has also been largly positive. I'm fortunate in that I also have a regional paint company to deal with that likewise has knowledgeable employees and a good line of products.
> 
> BM, by comparison, is only offered by a local lumber yard and a farm supply chain (Wilco). I would certainly use it more than I do if it was offerred locally by a dedicated paint store with employees who truly know what they are talking about rather than someone who begrudgingly comes over into the paint area to tint up a product for me - which is what I can expect now when I want to use a BM product.


I've honestly never even been in a SW store to the best of my recollection. Started out using BM, never turned back.

I guess I'm kind of lucky that the Home Hardware store here in town is the local outlet that sells BM, and the girls that staff it are great. They only do the paint department, period.

Next door is the local lumberyard that sells a paint brand I think is only available in Canada. It's pretty bad. As well, almost every time I've been forced to use their paint, something has gone wrong at their end.


----------



## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

I've had pretty good luck overall with Sherwin myself. Despite some failures in the customer relations department, I haven't been disappointed with product performance for the most part. Particularly their industrial coatings which have performed great for me. 

The one area, besides the common complaints about pricing regularity and customer service, that I have seen less than idea results in is their colorant system. 

Why won't such a monstrous and profitable coatings manufacturer like SW, modernize their colorant systems? It seems like they have done the bare minimum required by law, and in doing so have taken a step backwards in that performance category. 

The technology is here that enables colorants to be a positive factor in film integrity rather than a negative. And yet I've seen no sign that SW is moving to develop or implement this new technology. 

Perhaps they are and I just don't know about it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

The only negative experiences I've ever had with SW is their never-ending pricing fiascoes. If you're a professional painter, then you damn well should know what the quality products are in their lines.

To tell you the truth, I try not to even read these paint bashing threads. It's like Ford vs Chevy, just worse. And some here just have to chime in with their paint bashing negativity on a daily basis. Even if the thread has nothing to do with it.


----------



## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

Nice,Mizzou! Ha,CA isn't the only one around here with verbal skill. I'm surprised he didn't correct the spelling error......

Anyway.......I am blessed that I live in America where I am free to choose whatever paint I want!
I might get made fun of,but still.....America!


----------



## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

This tree hugger just wishes they would change the logo.


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Kumbaya my lord. kumbaya. kumbaya my lord, kumbaya! Warm fuzzies for EVERYONE! Now you are all free to go rub Cashmere all over your genitalia.


----------



## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> Kumbaya my lord. kumbaya. kumbaya my lord, kumbaya! Warm fuzzies for EVERYONE! Now you are all free to go rub Cashmere all over your genitalia.


Just when you had us all drinking the PACman Koolaid, MIZZOU wakes us from the trance with pics of him using SW PVA sealer. Unfortunately, now there's no need for me to fly to Ohio to buy paint


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

What will you all think when they close half of their stores and move them in to Lowe's? I might not be Nostradamus but I can see that one coming. And for the record, as far as individual products are concerned, I have only dissed particular products and the way the company operates in general. Duration is a good product, Cashmere is an excellent product. Very over priced at retail like everything they sell is. But if you needed to buy a new car, would you pay $30,000.00 for a brand spanking new Pinto? Because if you use Promar 200 or Superpaint that is exactly what you are doing. Paying way to much for 50 year old technology. And that my friends is how they put a store in every town. But that is the 'merican way right? Over hype, over price, count that cash. Everyone should be proud.


----------



## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

PACman said:


> .........Now you are all free to go rub Cashmere all over four genitalia.


Oh,yeah....well that might not be a good idea.....


----------



## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

Hehe,I had a '73 Pinto in college. To get it to start I had to get under the car,wiggle this wire,hop in through the drivers side window because the latch was broke or go around the passenger side and maneuver over the stickshift.


----------



## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

fauxlynn said:


> Hehe,I had a '73 Pinto in college. To get it to start I had to get under the car,wiggle this wire,hop in through the drivers side window because the latch was broke or go around the passenger side and maneuver over the stickshift.


now that surprises me not at all


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

fauxlynn said:


> Oh,yeah....well that might not be a good idea.....
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 70106


 hey! quit reading my posts!


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

I really was hoping for a haiku though.


----------



## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

LPC+SW=$$$$$$  
Here's to a prosperous 2016 for all of us no matter what our preferences are. At the end of the day, we all have the same goals. Feed the family, pay the bills and hope for measurable profits. Paint on my brothas! And a big ty to all the paint store peeps who keep us flowin' in my favorite color "money green" (sw2016)


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Ok so there are thousands of SW stores, with thousands of employees working in them. When was the last time any SW employee posted anything on this, the preeminent professional painters forum on the internet. ? Ever? Why do you think that is? Any SW employees out there lurking? Any? Just say hi, that's all. Nope. They don't give a damn about such things. Why? Simple. They get all the business they need, so why show any concern for the questions on this forum. Seriously why not one response about the recent Kem-Aqua questions? Not one Sw employee out there could be bothered to respond with a recommendation or even a phone number? They know they don't need too that's why. For every paint store person that participates on this forum there are at least 4000 SW employees that can't be bothered to help anyone that isn't lining their pockets with cash. Not one. Just something to think about until YOU get hung out to dry.


----------



## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

chrisn said:


> now that surprises me not at all


Hey,I was a struggling college girl! It was all I could afford. You try dragging a wet canvas to school on the bus!



pacman said:


> hey! Quit reading my posts!


----------



## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

PACman said:


> Ok so there are thousands of SW stores, with thousands of employees working in them. When was the last time any SW employee posted anything on this, the preeminent professional painters forum on the internet. ? Ever? Why do you think that is? Any SW employees out there lurking? Any? Just say hi, that's all. Nope. They don't give a damn about such things. Why? Simple. They get all the business they need, so why show any concern for the questions on this forum. Seriously why not one response about the recent Kem-Aqua questions? Not one Sw employee out there could be bothered to respond with a recommendation or even a phone number? They know they don't need too that's why. For every paint store person that participates on this forum there are at least 4000 SW employees that can't be bothered to help anyone that isn't lining their pockets with cash. Not one. Just something to think about until YOU get hung out to dry.


I don't know why, maybe because they think Uncle Sherwin is watching and participating could come back to bite them it they say something out of line. I know some participate in the facebook group, including my old rep from when I was located in PA.


----------



## ElTacoPaco (Dec 11, 2015)

Rbriggs82 said:


> I don't know why, maybe because they think Uncle Sherwin is watching and participating could come back to bite them it they say something out of line. I know some participate in the facebook group, including my old rep from when I was located in PA.


Hi! Pac you know perfectly well that only ex employees are on here


----------



## MIZZOU (Nov 18, 2012)

I wish SR was here to see my rhyming skills 😥


----------



## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

I support SW all day.

The local group is awesome and they help me out...a lot. 

I'll give props to the local crew because they're willing to order stuff for me, just to try out. Which is saying a lot because they usually have to order a box or multiples of the item and risk it staying in inventory etc. 

And as far as color matches, they're good with working with us. If it isn't right they'll mis-tint it until it is right, unlike box stores etc. 

Do they know everything? No...but neither do I. But they're willing to call hot lines, product vendors, reps. etc in order to try and find an answer. 

My experience is great, others may not be, but get to know them good and chances are they'll treat you alright.


----------



## ElTacoPaco (Dec 11, 2015)

woodcoyote said:


> I support SW all day.
> 
> The local group is awesome and they help me out...a lot.
> 
> ...


Sounds like my store 
Btw they can mistint and order bc they order 2-3 times a week and sell on average 1-5 million a year


----------



## jr.sr. painting (Dec 6, 2013)

Some of you guys act like your 15 years old and want to have a few Benjamin MooreGASMs a day so in order to do that you feel the need to hate on sw every chance you get.


----------



## ElTacoPaco (Dec 11, 2015)

jr.sr. painting said:


> Some of you guys act like your 15 years old and want to have a few Benjamin MooreGASMs a day so in order to do that you feel the need to hate on sw every chance you get.


Pacman isn't one of those FYI


----------



## ElTacoPaco (Dec 11, 2015)

jr.sr. painting said:


> Some of you guys act like your 15 years old and want to have a few Benjamin MooreGASMs a day so in order to do that you feel the need to hate on sw every chance you get.


Keep on looking at the attachment tell me if you get a shergasm lol :sly::sly::sly: jk


----------



## MikePote (May 20, 2015)

Nice Ode.

Benjamin MooreGASMs? Brilliant!

I love my local SW. I love Cashmere. I worry about making money. My local SW and Cashmere help me do that, plus its more convenient than the alternative and thats good enough for me.


----------



## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

fauxlynn said:


> Hey,I was a struggling college girl! It was all I could afford. You try dragging a wet canvas to school on the bus!
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 70146


My first car was a wrecked 69 Corvair, I doubt anyone can beat that, although the Pinto is close.


----------



## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

chrisn said:


> My first car was a wrecked 69 Corvair, I doubt anyone can beat that, although the Pinto is close.


Last year it was made. They're bringing decent prices out there anymore.


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

MIZZOU said:


> I wish SR was here to see my rhyming skills 😥


Props to your mad skills bro.


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

chrisn said:


> My first car was a wrecked 69 Corvair, I doubt anyone can beat that, although the Pinto is close.


Mine was a Vega. One barrel carb. Three speed.


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

chrisn said:


> My first car was a wrecked 69 Corvair, I doubt anyone can beat that, although the Pinto is close.


Mine was a Vega. One barrel carb. Three speed.

But hey it was a premium General Motors car, and there was a dealer in every town so it had to be the best car made right? RIGHT? That's kinda what I'm getting from all the SW love. They're the biggest and they're everywhere so I am a paint god for using them exclusively.


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

There once was a paint from Nantucket,
little more then some 5hit in a bucket.
All the painters would buy, 
nothing else would they try, 
and when it failed all they'd say was "well f*ck it!"


----------



## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

PAC, you're like a terrier with a rag toy. You just want to keep playing this. Not sure what you expect the results to be.


----------



## Admin (Jan 4, 2010)

Is it February already?


----------



## starvelingcurry (Jan 18, 2016)

epretot said:


> It's not February.


It is now


----------



## NotAChemist (Jan 23, 2016)

What's in February? Other than my birthday?


----------



## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

NotAChemist said:


> What's in February? Other than my birthday?


Seems to be the height of cabin fever season - at least for PT. The result can be some "interesting" posts and exchanges.


----------



## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

RH said:


> Seems to be the height of cabin fever season - at least for PT. The result can be some "interesting" posts and exchanges.


Normally, we'd have DaArch, our February conductor to guide the symphony of suffering but he's not even peeking his head in to look around anymore.

:icon_sad:


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Wolfgang said:


> PAC, you're like a terrier with a rag toy. You just want to keep playing this. Not sure what you expect the results to be.


Just showing off MY poetry skills. It seems everyone is in a bit of a tizzy, doesn't it? Lets all just go make some money shall we?


----------



## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Wolfgang said:


> PAC, you're like a terrier with a rag toy. You just want to keep playing this. Not sure what you expect the results to be.


There seems to be a propensity for some members to drive home a message, as if they're teaching to people with learning disabilities.


----------



## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

CApainter said:


> There seems to be a propensity for some members to drive home a message, as if they're teaching to people with learning disabilities.


Well, it is a painters' forum,:whistling2: after all.


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

I'm beginning to feel like Mr. Hand from Fast Times at Ridgemont High. You know "are you all on DOPE?".


----------



## NotAChemist (Jan 23, 2016)

slinger58 said:


> Well, it is a painters' forum,:whistling2: after all.


I don't think we're stupid; just stubborn. Seems like a lot of painters (both out in the field and on boards like this) think they already know everything there is to know. Anyone who tries to teach a painter is, innately, stepping on his or her ego.


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

NotAChemist said:


> I don't think we're stupid; just stubborn. Seems like a lot of painters (both out in the field and on boards like this) think they already know everything there is to know. Anyone who tries to teach a painter is, innately, stepping on his or her ego.


I certainly don't mean to imply that painters are stupid. Just want to expand their minds a little bit before it is too late and they run out of options.


----------



## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

NotAChemist said:


> I don't think we're stupid; just stubborn. Seems like a lot of painters (both out in the field and on boards like this) think they already know everything there is to know. Anyone who tries to teach a painter is, innately, stepping on his or her ego.


I believe that since the general nature of painting is to get from start to completion with as little resistance as possible, while using only as much resource as necessary, it is in the best interest of every painter to know what works for him or her in the field. And any painter that has survived this trade for any length of time, has certainly learned what works for them.

So when a supplier, with a biased interest, constantly berates and belittles painters for using what has worked for them over the years, its no wonder they will appear resistant. Again, the painting trade doesn't lend itself to the luxury of long billable hours to perform the perfect job. A seasoned painter, like most here at PT, knows that he or she has to rely on good performing materials to carry jobs that don't necessarily afford the time to dilly dally around with impeccable prepping and application.

Painters may not be smart enough to be brain surgeons, but it doesn't take much more than common sense to know what will sustain you in this industry.


----------



## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

CApainter said:


> Painters may not be smart enough to be successful brain surgeons.


FYP. We could certainly give it the old college try though.


----------



## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Wildbill7145 said:


> FYP. We could certainly give it the old college try though.


I supposed I've anesthicized myself enough to qualify for a surgical team.


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> I believe that since the general nature of painting is to get from start to completion with as little resistance as possible, while using only as much resource as necessary, it is in the best interest of every painter to know what works for him or her in the field. And any painter that has survived this trade for any length of time, has certainly learned what works for them.
> 
> So when a supplier, with a biased interest, constantly berates and belittles painters for using what has worked for them over the years, its no wonder they will appear resistant. Again, the painting trade doesn't lend itself to the luxury of long billable hours to perform the perfect job. A seasoned painter, like most here at PT, knows that he or she has to rely on good performing materials to carry jobs that don't necessarily afford the time to dilly dally around with impeccable prepping and application.
> 
> Painters may not be smart enough to be brain surgeons, but it doesn't take much more than common sense to know what will sustain you in this industry.


I've never berated anyone, just SW. I actually encourage people to keep using it. It's a weeding out process actually. If you are making enough money using it, no problem.


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Quick question while you guys are bashing me for bashing SW. Have any of you had any big price decreases from SW in the last 8-9 months? Seriously have any of you?


----------



## ElTacoPaco (Dec 11, 2015)

PACman said:


> Quick question while you guys are bashing me for bashing SW. Have any of you had any big price decreases from SW in the last 8-9 months? Seriously have any of you?


Chirp Chirp......


----------



## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

PACman said:


> Quick question while you guys are bashing me for bashing SW. Have any of you had any big price decreases from SW in the last 8-9 months? Seriously have any of you?


Nope, but I didnt ask either. I pay in the low $30's for both superpaint and cashmere which I think is fair, $22 for promar 200 which I hardly use. I'm not the kind of guy to call and try lowering my price all the time.


----------



## NotAChemist (Jan 23, 2016)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Nope, but I didnt ask either. I pay in the low $30's for both superpaint and cashmere which I think is fair, $22 for promar 200 which I hardly use. I'm not the kind of guy to call and try lowering my price all the time.


Are you aware that raw materials prices are down between 20 and 50% for paint over the last couple of years? Just an interesting fact. 

http://www.paintdealer.com/blog/2015/11/mark-my-words-november-2015/


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Nope, but I didnt ask either. I pay in the low $30's for both superpaint and cashmere which I think is fair, $22 for promar 200 which I hardly use. I'm not the kind of guy to call and try lowering my price all the time.


Those are very fair prices.


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

NotAChemist said:


> Are you aware that raw materials prices are down between 20 and 50% for paint over the last couple of years? Just an interesting fact.
> 
> http://www.paintdealer.com/blog/2015/11/mark-my-words-november-2015/


Up to 70% for "major company stores" per California.$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ oh crap I feinted on the dollar sign key!

But wait a minute! That doesn't have anything to do with you guys and gals does it? Doesn't effect your profitability at all.


----------



## thamberg (Jun 11, 2012)

PACman said:


> Quick question while you guys are bashing me for bashing SW. Have any of you had any big price decreases from SW in the last 8-9 months? Seriously have any of you?


Actually, yes.

Prices were recently lowered to high $20's for Super Paint Interior, and right around $30/Gallon for Cashmere.

No decreases from my BM dealer though...And I spend more money with them than SW.


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

thamberg said:


> Actually, yes.
> 
> Prices were recently lowered to high $20's for Super Paint Interior, and right around $30/Gallon for Cashmere.
> 
> No decreases from my BM dealer though...And I spend more money with them than SW.


That's were the local painters are.


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

NotAChemist said:


> Are you aware that raw materials prices are down between 20 and 50% for paint over the last couple of years? Just an interesting fact.
> 
> http://www.paintdealer.com/blog/2015/11/mark-my-words-november-2015/


Way to steal my shine newby!


----------



## NotAChemist (Jan 23, 2016)

CApainter said:


> I believe that since the general nature of painting is to get from start to completion with as little resistance as possible, while using only as much resource as necessary, it is in the best interest of every painter to know what works for him or her in the field. And any painter that has survived this trade for any length of time, has certainly learned what works for them.
> 
> So when a supplier, with a biased interest, constantly berates and belittles painters for using what has worked for them over the years, its no wonder they will appear resistant. Again, the painting trade doesn't lend itself to the luxury of long billable hours to perform the perfect job. A seasoned painter, like most here at PT, knows that he or she has to rely on good performing materials to carry jobs that don't necessarily afford the time to dilly dally around with impeccable prepping and application.
> 
> Painters may not be smart enough to be brain surgeons, but it doesn't take much more than common sense to know what will sustain you in this industry.


Are there a bunch of painters from here in PACman's area? Otherwise, I can't imagine he has much to gain from convincing people to try whatever he's talking about (unless he's a shareholder in the company?).

You're indubitably correct that there's a certain bar in our industry, below which you're going to sink. But that doesn't mean that there's not advantages to be gained by going above that bar. You can "make a living," but not make much of a living. Certainly I'd question how many of us have substantial amounts of money in retirement funds. And if part of profitability is in our product, we can certainly stand to improve (or at least ensure we're doing the best we can).

That's the world in my eyes, at least.


----------



## NotAChemist (Jan 23, 2016)

thamberg said:


> Actually, yes.
> 
> Prices were recently lowered to high $20's for Super Paint Interior, and right around $30/Gallon for Cashmere.
> 
> No decreases from my BM dealer though...And I spend more money with them than SW.


BM does need to get their pricing straight.

I don't deal with SW, but I've heard a lot of painters say the price goes down in the first quarter of the year and typically climbs back up in the other three. Not sure if there's any veracity to that, but I'm glad you're getting a price decrease. Everyone should be right now.


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

NotAChemist said:


> Are there a bunch of painters from here in PACman's area? Otherwise, I can't imagine he has much to gain from convincing people to try whatever he's talking about (unless he's a shareholder in the company?).
> 
> You're indubitably correct that there's a certain bar in our industry, below which you're going to sink. But that doesn't mean that there's not advantages to be gained by going above that bar. You can "make a living," but not make much of a living. Certainly I'd question how many of us have substantial amounts of money in retirement funds. And if part of profitability is in our product, we can certainly stand to improve (or at least ensure we're doing the best we can).
> 
> That's the world in my eyes, at least.


Newb gets a word of the day vote from me.


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

NotAChemist said:


> Are there a bunch of painters from here in PACman's area? Otherwise, I can't imagine he has much to gain from convincing people to try whatever he's talking about (unless he's a shareholder in the company?).
> 
> You're indubitably correct that there's a certain bar in our industry, below which you're going to sink. But that doesn't mean that there's not advantages to be gained by going above that bar. You can "make a living," but not make much of a living. Certainly I'd question how many of us have substantial amounts of money in retirement funds. And if part of profitability is in our product, we can certainly stand to improve (or at least ensure we're doing the best we can).
> 
> That's the world in my eyes, at least.


Oh no! I'm being hassled on the internet buy a guy in California! What do I do?


----------



## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

The thing is, we are professional painters on this forum. We use the products we are comfortable with, have confidence in, and store wise, is convenient to us. 

Paint prices? A commodity price that is passed on to the consumer - plain and simple. If your customer wants a premium product, they pay for it. You have the same choice everytime you go to the gas pump don't you?

Any bad experiences you had while an employee of S/W is between you and them as far as I'm concerned. We've all had unpleasant experiences in our lives whether personal or business. Most have the ability to move on.

I don't tell anyone else how to run their business. Why? Because it's their business to run as they see fit to do so. If I feel my pricing could be better, I inquire about it. I've never agreed with many companies policies of pricing by volume. It cost them the same to manufacture my 5 gal purchase as it does someone else 100 gal purchase. But that's how the system is set up. It then becomes my choice whether to continue to do business with them or move on to another manufacturer.

I'll be the first to admit I never used a lot of BM paints. We had one store in my area. The owner was an azz, the service was terrible. He ended up going out of business. Had it been different and the pricing was what I considered fair, who knows? (And this is coming from a guy who has owned more than a few Berkshire Hathaway A shares since 1983/4, and still does).


----------



## The Cutting Edge (May 25, 2014)

They brought my price down about a month ago. Only because I went to PPG for awhile. Now I'm back to Sherwin. No BM dealers near me. Had to drive to get PPG paint than drive to Sherwin to get tips and 99" plastic. Just not worth running all over to get what I need.
Cashmere low luster 29.49
Emerald which I don't use 41.49
Pro Classic semi 38
I did get pricing from BM dealer whos way outa my driving range.
For ultra spec it was 32 or 34 a gal. 
I think that's pretty good pricing. Guess ill stay at Sherwin til a new mgr comes and tries to jack my price up. That's the biggest problem with my store. They run too many different people through. They seem to rotate managers every 2 years or so.


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Wolfgang said:


> The thing is, we are professional painters on this forum. We use the products we are comfortable with, have confidence in, and store wise, is convenient to us.
> 
> Paint prices? A commodity price that is passed on to the consumer - plain and simple. If your customer wants a premium product, they pay for it. You have the same choice everytime you go to the gas pump don't you?
> 
> ...


Why do basic business questions always come back to my "personal issues" with Sherwin Williams? I did the smart thing and beat the crap out of my old P&L rep for better pricing. Are there any business people out there doing that? That is the question.


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

The Cutting Edge said:


> They brought my price down about a month ago. Only because I went to PPG for awhile. Now I'm back to Sherwin. No BM dealers near me. Had to drive to get PPG paint than drive to Sherwin to get tips and 99" plastic. Just not worth running all over to get what I need.
> Cashmere low luster 29.49
> Emerald which I don't use 41.49
> Pro Classic semi 38
> ...


That's been pretty standard for 35 years or so. Do you think any of those people contribute to Painttalk at all?


----------



## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

slinger58 said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> Well, it is a painters' forum,:whistling2: after all.





NotAChemist said:


> I don't think we're stupid; just stubborn. Seems like a lot of painters (both out in the field and on boards like this) think they already know everything there is to know. Anyone who tries to teach a painter is, innately, stepping on his or her ego.



Ya'll do know I was jesting when I posted this, right? :blink: 

I mean, how many serious posts do I even have on this forum?


----------



## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

PACman said:


> Why do basic business questions always come back to my "personal issues" with Sherwin Williams? I did the smart thing and beat the crap out of my old P&L rep for better pricing. Are there any business people out there doing that? That is the question.


You're the one who has reminded us of it more than once.

My bids were based on qualifying the customer. I then asked the customer what quality level of paint they wanted and informed them that would affect the final pricing. The labor portion of the bid always remained the same as there were no shortcuts on prep or application. They want the top of the line paint - they pay for it.

I never beat the crap out of my sales reps for better pricing. I asked, I negotiated when needed. It was never a case of "me against them". If I wasn't happy, then it was time to find another supplier. A lot of my sundry supplies were purchased elsewhere than my paint supplier.

Go back to basic economics. Supply and demand. If the demand is there, then prices tend to go up. When demand falls, prices go down. When a supplier is trying to initially gain your business, they tend to lower their pricing structure for you. The same when they want to re-gain your business. In the end though, the prices are passed on to the end consumer.


----------



## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

NotAChemist said:


> .



Okay, who is this guy? ^^^^^^^ No intro post, uses words like cognizant and expound and synonymously that are spelled correctly in full, complete sentences! Also, he seems rational. I'm suspicious.



slinger58 said:


> Ya'll do know I was jesting when I posted this, right? :blink:
> 
> I mean, how many serious posts do I even have on this forum?


You're many notches above me, Big Daddy.:thumbup:

Pacman, not that it matters, but I hate my local SW store. Last time I went in there, under duress, the bonding primer they tried to sell me was labeled differently, not labeled as a bonding primer and they told me all primers are bonding primer.


----------



## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Wolfgang said:


> You're the one who has reminded us of it more than once.
> 
> My bids were based on qualifying the customer. I then asked the customer what quality level of paint they wanted and informed them that would affect the final pricing. The labor portion of the bid always remained the same as there were no shortcuts on prep or application. They want the top of the line paint - they pay for it.
> 
> ...


That's exactly how I operate. I want my suppliers to treat me fairly and I do the same in return. Beating them over the head with pricing and constantly switching brands to get those lower prices is too much work and I just don't operate like that. I know people get way better prices than me and that's fine I'm not paying anyway. 

Sent from my LG-H810 using Tapatalk


----------



## The Cutting Edge (May 25, 2014)

PACman said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> That's been pretty standard for 35 years or so. Do you think any of those people contribute to Painttalk at all?


Ive never seen a single one on here. Nor from valspar or Behr or any other paint manufacturers. That is an excellent point that I've often thought about. I don't know why they don't check in once in awhile. Was gonna go Pratt and Lambert but they only stock the gold line. Red seal and accolade were special orders so I'm not gonna go through all that to get a gal of paint. Or if I did order it and I'm a gal short I'm not gonna wait 2 days to get it. Pac I think you're still kicking a horse that died about 2 weeks ago. I sure love your humor and your hillbilly lab results. I know you care more about the products than any dealer I've ever met. If you had a store near me it'd be a no brainer. I'd be there. But I gotta play the cards I was dealt. And honestly why no Sherwin reps on here? The only answer can be because they just don't care.


----------



## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

If you were a mfg rep, would you involve yourself in the quagmire of this place?


----------



## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

I receive about the same pricing as RBriggs for the products he mentioned. I think, to an extent anyway, that the pricing a contractor gets from SW depends upon the specific store that contractor frequents, and the particular sales representative that operates in that contractor's area.

Every time I have shown interest in using a line of paint from SW for the first time, I've been given a free gallon of that line. Every time I've called my sales rep to ask for his best price on a line I've just begun to use, he makes it "affordable" in my eyes. As Wolfgang says, the customer is paying for it anyway.

I am fortunate to have a helpful rep who will come out to the job site and give me his recommendation when I feel I need one. I have two very knowledgeable and helpful people behind the counter. The service is prompt. They will special order me stuff without any bitching or moaning. For example, I like the Jasco Liquid Mask product, and am the only person to ever request it. They will order the quantity I requested and some extra in case I want it down the road. It appears as if I'm the only local painter frequenting their store who uses fine finish tips. They made sure to get the three sizes I requested.

I do understand how the 30 and 40 percent off sales aggravate painting contractors. In the long run, how often do those sales negatively affect closing a bid? So far (knock on wood), I have not lost any jobs over them.

One other thing: I get at least one phone call a month from a person who went into the SW store I frequent regularly and asked for a good painter. They recommend me. I've got no gripes.


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Wolfgang said:


> You're the one who has reminded us of it more than once.
> 
> My bids were based on qualifying the customer. I then asked the customer what quality level of paint they wanted and informed them that would affect the final pricing. The labor portion of the bid always remained the same as there were no shortcuts on prep or application. They want the top of the line paint - they pay for it.
> 
> ...


So what do you all expect me to do when someone posts a "MY sherman williams paint does so and so and I think it sucks" post? Ignore it so all of you can tell them they are crazy and there is nothing wrong with their paint it must be them? Obviously most of you only want confirmation and not explanation so I'll butt out of the SW posts. If there happens to be anyone who actually wants to know what has happened to their SW paint feel free to PM me. Other then that just expect to be coddled.


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Wolfgang said:


> You're the one who has reminded us of it more than once.
> 
> My bids were based on qualifying the customer. I then asked the customer what quality level of paint they wanted and informed them that would affect the final pricing. The labor portion of the bid always remained the same as there were no shortcuts on prep or application. They want the top of the line paint - they pay for it.
> 
> ...


Obviously you have never been an independent retailer. Basic economics is for MBA's not reality.


----------



## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

PACman said:


> So what do you all expect me to do when someone posts a "MY sherman williams paint does so and so and I think it sucks" post? Ignore it so all of you can tell them they are crazy and there is nothing wrong with their paint it must be them? Obviously most of you only want confirmation and not explanation so I'll butt out of the SW posts. If there happens to be anyone who actually wants to know what has happened to their SW paint feel free to PM me. Other then that just expect to be coddled.


I actually like reading your posts related to SW products (and the other brands about which you share your knowledge). You are a watchdog and trying to be as informative as possible, so that the rest of us have more knowledge to use to when choosing products. :notworthy:

I mainly use Cashmere, Superpaint (exterior), Duration (exterior) and ProClassic. I'm going to give the Pro Industrial Multi Surface Acrylic a shot this weekend on some entry doors at the home I'm repainting.

I think you have been right on regarding some of the lower-line products sold at SW. And I have benefitted from your advice.


----------



## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

PACman said:


> Obviously you have never been an independent retailer. Basic economics is for MBA's not reality.


You would be wrong on that assumption.

Owned a dual-line motorcycle dealership. True the suggested retail pricing of the mc's was set by the manufacturer, it was my choice and business plan at what the final sales price was. Parts and accessories even more so. Service dept rates were also decided by me. I think that qualifies as a independent retailer.


----------



## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

SemiproJohn said:


> I receive about the same pricing as RBriggs for the products he mentioned. I think, to an extent anyway, that the pricing a contractor gets from SW depends upon the specific store that contractor frequents, and the particular sales representative that operates in that contractor's area.
> 
> Every time I have shown interest in using a line of paint from SW for the first time, I've been given a free gallon of that line. Every time I've called my sales rep to ask for his best price on a line I've just begun to use, he makes it "affordable" in my eyes. As Wolfgang says, the customer is paying for it anyway.
> 
> ...


I send them pizza during the 40% off sales because I know they're all hands on deck around that time. That's how much it bothers me.


----------



## Clearlycut (Dec 1, 2013)

Let me ask you guys this.
Why does everyone cry about getting good paint for dirt cheap?
How much do you guys mark up paint?

If its good ill pay whatever.


----------



## jr.sr. painting (Dec 6, 2013)

Clearlycut said:


> Let me ask you guys this. Why does everyone cry about getting good paint for dirt cheap? How much do you guys mark up paint? If its good ill pay whatever.


Perfect post! If it's good paint its worth it hands down. SW has so many options compared to any paint store around me it's not even a question. Ya aura and Rs are great but for 69.99 and 54.99 it's not worth walking into those stores when I ask them to dry down the gallon and they roll their eyes


----------



## Clearlycut (Dec 1, 2013)

Im saying though.

I guess it makes sense if your bidding on a resort repaint
And its the differen e of 40,000
But house painters?
Cmon.
We all know its the same ingrediants just different receipe.
In retrospec, look i have family members who have built there whole career of sherwin williams. How could it be bad?
If someone wants Regal they get regal and they will pay for regal. If they want Behr, they can have behr.
I prefer Kelly moore.
If they dont want to use that then they pay for what they want.
Id rather get top dollar for the work i do and give them a brake on paint, then be trippin on squeezin a few bucks off a gallon. Sorry for the rant just my 2 cents.


----------



## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

I know for a fact there is a SW rep that checks in here. He has commented on my posts in person at my local store.

I don't know how often he reads or how much he cares
..but he does read what's posted here occasionally.


----------



## The Cutting Edge (May 25, 2014)

SemiproJohn said:


> I actually like reading your posts related to SW products (and the other brands about which you share your knowledge). You are a watchdog and trying to be as informative as possible, so that the rest of us have more knowledge to use to when choosing products. :notworthy:
> 
> I mainly use Cashmere, Superpaint (exterior), Duration (exterior) and ProClassic. I'm going to give the Pro Industrial Multi Surface Acrylic a shot this weekend on some entry doors at the home I'm repainting.
> 
> I think you have been right on regarding some of the lower-line products sold at SW. And I have benefitted from your advice.


Let us know how the multi surface works out for ya. I have a house next week I was gonna use it for the doors and trim. Ive never tried it before. Sounds like its good stuff.


----------



## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

The Cutting Edge said:


> Let us know how the multi surface works out for ya. I have a house next week I was gonna use it for the doors and trim. Ive never tried it before. Sounds like its good stuff.


Will do. I've been reading positive things here lately and have to try it.


----------



## MIZZOU (Nov 18, 2012)

jr.sr. painting said:


> Benjamin MooreGASMs



Lmao 😂


----------



## MIZZOU (Nov 18, 2012)

Rbriggs82 said:


> I send them pizza during the 40% off sales because I know they're all hands on deck around that time. That's how much it bothers me.



I do goodcents and dunkin donuts 👍. I like the idea of doing it when 40% off sales are going.


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

SemiproJohn said:


> I actually like reading your posts related to SW products (and the other brands about which you share your knowledge). You are a watchdog and trying to be as informative as possible, so that the rest of us have more knowledge to use to when choosing products. :notworthy:
> 
> I mainly use Cashmere, Superpaint (exterior), Duration (exterior) and ProClassic. I'm going to give the Pro Industrial Multi Surface Acrylic a shot this weekend on some entry doors at the home I'm repainting.
> 
> I think you have been right on regarding some of the lower-line products sold at SW. And I have benefitted from your advice.


And the products you mention are all very good products, although I'm not a big fan of Superpaint. I do understand that it is a good product line that is easily available to most painters and that is why it is used so much.


----------



## HollisPainting (Oct 15, 2013)

Wildbill7145 said:


> I've honestly never even been in a SW store to the best of my recollection. Started out using BM, never turned back.
> 
> I guess I'm kind of lucky that the Home Hardware store here in town is the local outlet that sells BM, and the girls that staff it are great. They only do the paint department, period.


It all becomes clear


----------



## Scannell Painting (Sep 25, 2010)

Pac I'm guessing you were let go by SW, probably for playing too much on computer instead of doing your work.


----------



## NotAChemist (Jan 23, 2016)

Scannell Painting said:


> Pac I'm guessing you were let go by SW, probably for playing too much on computer instead of doing your work.


Why the vindictiveness?


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Scannell Painting said:


> Pac I'm guessing you were let go by SW, probably for playing too much on computer instead of doing your work.


No. I quit after ten years of excellent performance reviews. Apparently the district manager decided that the only position I could move up into after working for 8 years as an operations manager should go to his college roommate instead. A guy with 2 years with SW as an assistant store manager.
He had the guy come to San Diego and buy a house two months before the job was posted as open. A direct violation of company policy and a perfect nepotism case if I had desired to pursue it. 

This is one reason why I left SW. The other two main reasons, one of which involves a SW district manager, a female Assistant manager who was a close acquaintance of mine (we went through training together and worked at neighboring stores for 2 years), and a light night of drinking followed by some knock-out drugs at the hotel later that evening. (again obviously against company policy. He was punished by being transferred to a district closer to his WIFE.)

The other one involves a trainee that I hand picked to be my assistant. She worked with me for 3 1/2 years before she moved back to Texas to take a job as a store manager. Where she was raped by a painter for the biggest local painting company. In the store. She got fired for filing a lawsuit against the painter and the painting company. (and SW). After 5-6 years of stalling By SW's attorneys she gave up because she was broke.

Not to mention the guy who got aids from his wife. An auditor went to his store from Cleveland and refused to sit in the office with him to do the audit so they fired him. This was in the early 90' so they knew there was no reason to act that way, they just wanted to cleanse themselves of him. He won his lawsuit thanks to the state of California and died a couple of years later.

There are many more but I think I've bored you all enough for one day.

Oh I almost forgot. Not ever anything close to this kind of crap in 10 years with PPG.


----------



## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

Sounds more like a people problem not a paint problem. Welcome to the big wide world. It's full of imperfect people who do imperfect things. Their products make me $. The rest is none of my buisness.it's gotta be tough to keep all that resentment somewhat bottled up every day. I'm sure we only see a small amount of what is really present. Hope ya find some peace in it somewhere pac. Resentments just aren't worth holding onto no matter how well justified we think they are.


----------



## ElTacoPaco (Dec 11, 2015)

jr.sr. painting said:


> Perfect post! If it's good paint its worth it hands down. SW has so many options compared to any paint store around me it's not even a question. Ya aura and Rs are great but for 69.99 and 54.99 it's not worth walking into those stores when I ask them to dry down the gallon and they roll their eyes


Down here they just flat out dont do that with SW lol


----------



## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Some brands people are going to strongly dislike for various reasons - period. But for most of us, various lines in almost any brand would probably be just fine. Also, some companies will have excellent staff members at their locations and others, meh. Guess it comes down to a product being readily available, with decent products at a fair price, and with people who generally know their business available to assist us in doing our jobs. Guessing most of us are getting along fine, regardless of what paint it is, once we get that status quo established.


----------



## paintpimp (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> Any SW employees out there lurking? Any? Just say hi, that's all.


Hi. That's all.


----------



## tntpainting (Apr 3, 2008)

Some of the swp lines have been watered down to compete with the big box paints but the old standby paint that most of us pros use are still very good imo


----------

