# New Paint product from PPG



## Mr Smith (Mar 11, 2016)

Has anyone tried PPG Permanzer yet? Claims to be one coat hide. This is not Home depot saying this. It must be quite thick because the coverage is only 250-300 sq foot. It claims to be self priming on a number of substrates including wood.

Call 1-800-441-9695 for further details.


PPG PERMANIZER® Exterior Acrylic Latex


PPG PERMANIZER's 100% acrylic formula provides a premium, long-lasting exterior finish with a tough, durable film, super adhesion, industry advanced UV protection and dirt, moisture, and tannin resistance–backed by a limited *lifetime warranty against cracking, flaking and peeling*.

The advanced properties of PPG Permanizer are specifically formulated to resist mildew on the paint film and contain a preservative to prevent discoloration by algae. 

Permanizer provides industry advanced UV protection and dirt resistance to keep exterior colors looking like new for years to come. Permanizer helps to extend the painting season with application at temperatures as low as 35°F and also provides excellent early moisture resistance.

FEATURES:
Outstanding Dirt Resistance
Enhanced UV Resistance
One Coat Hide**
100% Acrylic Latex

Aluminum Ferrous Metal Stucco
Brick Fiber Cement Vinyl
Concrete Masonry Wood

COVERAGE: 250 to 300 sq. ft.. (23 to 27 sq. meters) per US gallon
(3.78 L)

Features Benefits
One Coat Hide* Saves time and money compared to traditional two-coat products
100% Acrylic Outstanding durability
Outstanding Dirt Resistance Provides a clean appearance
Enhanced UV Resistance Color stays true
Excellent Adhesion Minimizes peeling and cracking
Provides a midlew and algae resistant coating Stays clean
*Application Down to 35°F Extends the painting season*
Limited Lifetime Warranty Warrants against cracking, peeling, & flaking on residential homes

*RECOMMENDED PRIMERS*
Aluminum 17-921XI
Brick 4-503, 4-603XI, 17-921XI
Concrete & Masonry 4-503, 4-603XI, 17-921XI, Self-priming
Ferrous Metal 4020, 90-712, 90-912
Fiber Cement 4-2, 4-503, 4-603XI, Self-priming
Stucco 4-2, 4-503, 4-603XI, 4-808, 4-809,
4-898, Self-priming
Vinyl 17-921XI
Wood 17-921XI, Self-priming


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

Looks like some thick stuff, 250 ft per gallon.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

It's the same thing as Manor Hall Timeless. It used to be in the Porter label but now they are selling it as a contractor labelled Timeless. Exterior that is. I painted my marginally clean aluminum siding house with it over 10 years ago and it still looks new after i clean it. I actually had a can of it left over and i touched up with it around a door frame that gets beat to hell about two years ago and it matched it even though it was a south facing door. When i first used it, i put a coat on a bare 2x8 that we were using as an attachment point for my deck joists and was pounding the crap out of it the next day with a sledge to get the board in place. It didn't budge from the wood. Unless they changed it, it's good durable stuff. Kind of hard to work with as it gets tacky as hell around 85 degrees. Definitely use a chinex bristle brush with it.


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## Delta Painting (Apr 27, 2010)

Self-priming but has a list of primer's..lol


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

Delta Painting said:


> Self-priming but has a list of primer's..lol


All good paints say the same thing.


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

Woodco said:


> All good paints say the same thing.


Then they shouldn't say it's self-priming.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Brushman4 said:


> Then they shouldn't say it's self-priming.


Blame home Depot. If paints didn't say 'paint and primer' on the can I wouldn't be able to to sell them. It's hard enough to convince people to prime cedar even after they've had bleed through


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Delta Painting said:


> Self-priming but has a list of primer's..lol


every paint Home Depot and Lowe's sells is "paint and primer" yet they both have 24' sections of primers. Why if it really works?


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Brushman4 said:


> Then they shouldn't say it's self-priming.


It is self priming! On a previously painted, properly prepared surface. And what pray tell is a "properly prepared" surface? One that has been primed. For example, the OLD marquee data sheet said in one column that is was self priming over "properly prepared drywall". And in the next column was the "proper preparation" instructions that said that drywall had to be primed with a particular Behr primer to be "properly prepared". It's all just a play on words meant to confuse DIY'ers into believing that painting is easy as hell and they can do it themselves. Strangely the Marquee data sheet was changed late last year.


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## Mr Smith (Mar 11, 2016)

If you read the fine print the manufacturer only claims it is self priming for half of the substrates listed. Listing a primer option is smart because the topcoat is generally more expensive than the primer. 

Aura is self priming too but I would use a tinted drywall primer/sealer first and then 1-2 topcoats. I have never tried it but some painters use only 2 coats of Aura directly over new drywall. That could save you some money.

Substrates that are not self priming using Permanizer:

Aluminum 17-921XI
Brick 4-503, 4-603XI, 17-921XI
Ferrous Metal 4020, 90-712, 90-912
Vinyl 17-921XI

Naming a primer option for the other substrates does not mean that it is not self priming. 

Inslx Cabinet Coat for instance claims to be self priming."Covers hard-to-coat surfaces without a primer". They also list primer options.

*Cabinet Coat*

Notice the recommended primers.

Surface Preparation
General – All surface areas to be painted should be clean, dry,
sound and free of all dirt, grease, oils, waxes, mildew and any other
surface contaminants. Dirt and chalk should be thoroughly removed
by scrubbing with warm soapy water. Surface wax should be
removed with a commercial wax stripper. Grease or Oil residue
should be removed using Grease & Oil emulsifier. Remove all loose
chipping, cracking and peeling from previously painted surfaces by
hand scraping, sanding, wire brushing and/or by use of power tool
cleaning methods such as electric sanders, grinders, etc. Remove
any loose rust, mill scale, rust deposits from metal surfaces.
Repair/replace any seriously damaged and/or delaminated surface
areas. Lightly feather sand all rough paint edges to adjacent surface
area. All glossy surface areas should be lightly sanded to effectively
dull any existing sheen and create a more suitable surface for
painting.

NOTE: Always clean before sanding to prevent driving
contamination into the substrate or previous coatings!
Glossy Surfaces – Although Cabinet Coat is formulated to be
applied to hard to coat surfaces without the need for sanding, it is
recommended that proper surface preparation still be completed to
enhance adhesion properties. Surfaces such as Melamine

Laminate, Formica®
, ceramic tile and glossy painted surfaces should
be properly deglossed.
Previously Painted Surfaces: No primer is needed if surface is in
good condition. Clean or sand as described above. Spot prime bare
spots with an initial coat of Cabinet Coat.
Wood (non-bleeding), and engineered wood products:
Primer: Insl-x
® Aqua Lock® Plus or Cabinet Coat
Finish: 1-2 coats of Cabinet Coat
Bleeding Type Woods (Redwood and Cedar):
Primer: Insl-x
® Prime Lock Plus or 1-2 coats of Insl-x
® Aqua Lock®
Plus
Finish: 1-2 coats of Cabinet Coat
Melamine Laminate or Formica®
: No primer needed. Lightly sand
with fine sandpaper. Remove sanding dust with tack rag.
Ferrous Metal: Prime bare spots with acrylic metal primer

So it seems to me it can be self priming if the surface is optimally prepared and most DIY types skip this step unfortunately. I suppose using a primer might work better ---barely--- without optimal prep, but obviously prone to failure regardless.


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## Mr Smith (Mar 11, 2016)

PACman said:


> It is self priming! On a previously painted, properly prepared surface. And *what pray tell is a "properly prepared" surface?* One that has been primed. For example, the OLD marquee data sheet said in one column that is was self priming over "properly prepared drywall". And in the next column was the "proper preparation" instructions that said that drywall had to be primed with a particular Behr primer to be "properly prepared". It's all just a play on words meant to confuse DIY'ers into believing that painting is easy as hell and they can do it themselves. Strangely the Marquee data sheet was changed late last year.


Answer:

see above.


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

PACman said:


> It's the same thing as Manor Hall Timeless. It used to be in the Porter label but now they are selling it as a contractor labelled Timeless. Exterior that is. I painted my marginally clean aluminum siding house with it over 10 years ago and it still looks new after i clean it. I actually had a can of it left over and i touched up with it around a door frame that gets beat to hell about two years ago and it matched it even though it was a south facing door. When i first used it, i put a coat on a bare 2x8 that we were using as an attachment point for my deck joists and was pounding the crap out of it the next day with a sledge to get the board in place. It didn't budge from the wood. Unless they changed it, it's good durable stuff. Kind of hard to work with as it gets tacky as hell around 85 degrees. Definitely use a chinex bristle brush with it.


Hey PAC, did PPG eliminate all Porter labeled products?


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

I don't trust self-priming paint (ie., Primer + Paint) even if it's 100% Acrylic. 

In theory can we assume that Acrylic Paint will sit ON the surface??

I would feel better using an oil-based primer that "penetrates" the wood, and then use 100% Acrylic Paint topcoat. 

Same for other substrates. I like the durability of Acrylic, but doubtful (to me) that 100% Acrylic Paint will have same kind of Adhesion/Bonding capability that specialty primers would...


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Mr Smith said:


> Answer:
> 
> see above.


I know this, and YOU know this, but does the average consumer know this? Nope! And that is the issue with the whole paint and primer scam. It is a lie by omission. And we, the professional painters and the "real" paint store people are tasked with telling the average consumer that every paint TV add and every print add and every label in the box stores is a lie.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Brushman4 said:


> Hey PAC, did PPG eliminate all Porter labeled products?


Porter is GONE! No mas Porter. They will be selling select Porter products with PPG labels. I don't know if there has been any general announcement yet but it is happening this year.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

also....Glidden labelled products that have been sold in the company stores will be no mas too! Lots of fun, fun changes coming at the PPG stores. 

And, rumors of a new ultrahypersuperdoopermega paint line coming in 2020. I guess now we won't even have to open the can and it will automatically apply itself in your desired shade. We're all screwed i guess, as millions of DIY'ers will be flocking to the PPG stores...no wait...getting the new PPG ultrahypersuperdoopermega paint delivered by out of work painters and paint store employees, setting the can in the middle of the desired room, watch some Netflix, and there you have it! A perfectly painted room in a perfect match to those dainty window treatments! Can't WAIT!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

The new labels are cool though...


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

PACman said:


> also....Glidden labelled products that have been sold in the company stores will be no mas too! Lots of fun, fun changes coming at the PPG stores.
> 
> And, rumors of a new ultrahypersuperdoopermega paint line coming in 2020. I guess now we won't even have to open the can and it will automatically apply itself in your desired shade. We're all screwed i guess, as millions of DIY'ers will be flocking to the PPG stores...no wait...getting the new PPG ultrahypersuperdoopermega paint delivered by out of work painters and paint store employees, setting the can in the middle of the desired room, watch some Netflix, and there you have it! A perfectly painted room in a perfect match to those dainty window treatments! Can't WAIT!



Does that mean we can all retire and kick back? Oh wait. Still need moola. Dammit. Now what are we all gonna do?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

An oil based paint film does not have the same porous matrix that a waterborne film has. That's why waterborne paints can adhere to waterborne paint films without creating a "tooth", as they say in the industry.


Also, oil based paints cure by oxidation which means they are in a continuous state of chemical cross linking. Which is why they become so hard and brittle after a time. Just like many of you folks out there. Trying to put a water based acrylic or latex resin over something like that, without at least creating a tooth, will ultimately result in failure.


Wrong thread. Never mind.


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## jennifertemple (Oct 30, 2011)

Woodco said:


> All good paints say the same thing.



Timeless REALLY DOES self prime! I think it may be the only one.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

jennifertemple said:


> Timeless REALLY DOES self prime! I think it may be the only one.


i painted some bare exterior untreated wood with it 12 years ago and it looks like i just painted it. Completely exposed with ground contact. The wood is just starting to rot at the bottom inside the paint.


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