# Water Based Clear coat fish eyed



## billygoat (Jun 15, 2011)

Hi everyone,
Okay here is what I have going on. I do a lot of kitchen cabinet refinishing and have ran into something that I have not seen. 

I am using Ben Moore Impervo water based satin on part of the kitchen and Ben Moore's Regal water based satin on another part. I am spraying all with a Capspray 9100 and am having issues with the clear coat drying rough and even fish eyeing over the Regal. 

The clear coat is General Finishes' High Performance water based clear coat. It works great on the Impervo acrylic paint and acting up on the Regal. It dries rough and pitted and even will fish eye when I tried Zar's water based clear coat as a test over the Regal paint. The regal paint has had days to dry and just as long as the Impervo piant.

All conditions have been the same and all paint/clear coats applied within minutes of each other. Prep work done the same, etc. Temp/humidity the same as well and in the right spectrum for good results. 

Has anyone seen this or have an idea of what's going on? Thanks


----------



## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

If I had time I would post all the issues that have shown up when trying wb clears. I do not want to use up all of pt's bandwidth however. They are quirky to say the least and everyone has a different quirk I am afraid.


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Something is being activated in the coats under yours. You didnt mention using any kind of adhesion primer?


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

vermontpainter said:


> Something is being activated in the coats under yours. You didnt mention using any kind of adhesion primer?


From what I read it sounds like only the clear, and only over the gennex regal. So I'd start there. Could be some goofy chemical in the select that the clear doesn't like. Swich clear coats or switch base coat to the classic regal.


----------



## billygoat (Jun 15, 2011)

I don't think the primer would be affecting it. I used Zinsser 123 to prime. However I have two coats of paint over it and the affected surface is 100% of the surface. 

The paint has performed as it usually does and normal. To clarify, I was using General Finishes High Performance clear coat for this project and that is being affected by the Regal paint. However, I had some Zar water based clear coat (satin) on hand and tried that on the same Regal paint and it fish eyed like crazy. 

I agree that it may be some chemical. The only way out may be to skuff sand everything with the Regal on it and start over. I have used General Finishes High performance clear coat on at least 5 different paints and this is the first time it's acted up. Regal surprises me though. 

Thanks for the advice guys and any further advice would be appreciated.


----------



## sagebrush123 (Mar 11, 2011)

my first guess would be to ask if you had shaken or stirred the clear coat?

that could be a culprit....


----------



## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Shaking may cause air bubbles, stirring should be fine.

Fisheyes seem almost random with WB clears. Sometimes it happens, sometimes not. I have not been able to determine a cause when they show up. Sometimes it is over dye stains with no binder, sometimes over oil stains, sometimes only over another coat of finish.


----------



## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

All lacquers react with silicone. If there is any silicone in the previously applied coating or in the form of contamination, you will get fisheye. 

First try it over another coating, and also try it after a thorough cleaning with lacquer thinner. If you're still getting fisheye then you may have to try a fisheye eliminator additive in your clear.


----------



## Contractor Jeff (Apr 8, 2011)

Try using a grenade type moisture filter, fisheyes are often by water in the finish being sprayed, also wipe down the work beforehand with solvent to remove any contaminating residue.


----------



## billygoat (Jun 15, 2011)

Thanks for the comments. 

I did stir the clear coat well and make a habit of doing so. I thought about that as well. I will try wiping them down with solvent beforehand. Any recommendations as to what type of solvent? Denatured Alcohol for Regal latex? 

The culprit seems to be something in the Regal paint and Clear coat not getting along.


----------



## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

There are a few things you can do to lessen the fish-eye problems in WB clears.
1. Do your first coat with a 5% cut of distilled water and a <5% cut of denatured alcohol. 2. Second coat with a 5% cut of denatured alcohol, no water cut.

Where the probelm usually lies is that the painted surface hasn't fully cured, and any impurities are still working their way to the surface....and there are alot of impurities in just about any paint.


----------



## Different Strokes (Dec 8, 2010)

Wolfgang said:


> There are a few things you can do to lessen the fish-eye problems in WB clears.
> 1. Do your first coat with a 5% cut of distilled water and a <5% cut of denatured alcohol. 2. Second coat with a 5% cut of denatured alcohol, no water cut.
> 
> Where the probelm usually lies is that the painted surface hasn't fully cured, and any impurities are still working their way to the surface....and there are alot of impurities in just about any paint.


What purpose does the denatured alcohol serve? not doubting you, just wondering


----------



## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I have been told by manufacturer reps to put a little paint thinner in to slow the dry time and let it flow together. Have not tried it though.


----------



## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Different Strokes said:


> What purpose does the denatured alcohol serve? not doubting you, just wondering


Not quite sure.....LOL, but it worked for me. First used this combo with a WB lacquer that was being sprayed through an airless to cut down on any air bubbles. Though I'd give it a shot with WB poly and it has worked fine on the applications I've used it on.


----------



## billygoat (Jun 15, 2011)

Thanks for the comments guys. I have ran into other issues with WB polys and it's always a long list of possibilities for fisheye causes. Most of them I have worked out only to run into other problems or the same problems. I will try the 5% cutting with D.N.A. and sanding differently. Thanks again


----------



## ocean painter (Jul 9, 2012)

*similar issue*

I have run into this same issue. I built a set of loudspeakers and am trying to build a piano black finish. Zinzer 123, then `black` flat Bengaine Moore regla classic, then multiple coats of High Performance gloss, with 320 sand every other coat (approx). After many many clear coats, i am starting to get that same rough pitted area on approx 65% of the surface. No clear evidense this would occur when I spreyed, but when i returned post drying...there it was. Did you ever find the cause of the problem? Did you ever find the solution? Can I wait for it to cure fully (a few more days), wet sand to say 2500 and will it not show in the final buffing?


----------

