# What if?



## briancreary (Oct 12, 2010)

This is just something I've been thinking about lately. If tomorrow the EPA outlawed all oil products what would you use on your trim? (Don't think it won't happen)

My personal favorite so far has been the new Alkyd's.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

The same thing I use now. ProClassic Waterborne.....


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## briancreary (Oct 12, 2010)

oops just got my poll going, thanks paradigmzz, would like to see your vote.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Or Impervo if I was a BM user....

or ______ if I was a ______ user....

Latex is muey bueno. 

I would use Waterborne Alkyd to cover up oil based on a repaint though:whistling2:


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

bored to tears here, kids are napping and wifey is at store. Fast becoming a Paint Talk addict in all my new found vacation time.... Just waiting for the next interesting post....


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

is the context new paint or repaint? confused about option about "semi-gloss paint customer wont notice"


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## briancreary (Oct 12, 2010)

No context, just in general. I would guess this would apply mostly to repaints. I love impervo too, but I've only used their oil and under this scenario the EPA outlawed it. :thumbsup:


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

I stopped using oil on trim years ago so nothing would change for me.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Only trim that gets oil now is if oil is already on it in a repaint. Otherwise, acrylic is what I use now as well. I may use the WB alkyds for repaints in the future if I find they offer something the acrylics do not. So far, I am not convinced they are better than a high quality acrylic, but I have more testing to do with them.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

I may not be the systems guy Jack Pauhl is, but one thing I figured out many years ago - is that the logistics surrounding oil based trim paints absolutely kill your production numbers. There is no longer any place for oil paints in residential. Uncle Sam can take it all away as far as I am concerned - heck that goes for waterborne alkyds as well. Despite their quicker dry times - I don't believe you can apply latex wall paint on top of where you overbrushed trim paint - until the paint has cured.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Only thing is, oil primers would be gone also and I do not like that. I currently stick with oil over oil for adhesion sake, otherwise it takes multiple extra steps to ensure a good bond.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

i will be making a killing selling coverstain on the blackmarket. bring it on


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## ltd (Nov 18, 2010)

other than squirreling away some cover stain i mean that's the only thing i like on water, and nicotine,stains and gripping on old oil base . hey i can brush out trim with super paint or manor hall and it looks almost as good as an old school oil job. i always switch all oil base trim to water base .that's my story and im sticking to it


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

DeanV said:


> Only thing is, oil primers would be gone also and I do not like that. I currently stick with oil over oil for adhesion sake, otherwise it takes multiple extra steps to ensure a good bond.


Dean back in 2004 I would agree with you 100%. But with the advent of all these newer waterbornes - I no longer agree. Take Muralo's Ultra semigloss paint - all you need to do is thoroughly sand the surface of oil paint and then dust. I have used their exterior/interior latex primer and primed baseboard radiator covers which are factoy applied oil finishes, with no sanding and topcoated with latex with no problems. 

As the years go by - I am finding fewer reasons to use nasty solvent based products. As an experiment a couple of years ago - I took my latex stain-killing primer and applied it to water stain in a ceiling. It took 5 coats before the stain was killed - several coats allowing 24 hrs between application. Not very efficient - but the stain was killed! Not to mention - if the job is large enough, you spend 2-3 minutes brushing over a stain - and then move on to another room - and save that room for last. 

I am 97% convinced that you no longer need any oil primers for priming interior wood - occasional BIN for knots. I was taught that latex/water based primers raised the grain of the wood - where as I find that oil primers cause fibers to get raised much more so, requiring tons of sanding.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

ltd said:


> other than squirreling away some cover stain i mean that's the only thing i like on water, and nicotine,stains and gripping on old oil base . hey i can brush out trim with super paint or manor hall and it looks almost as good as an old school oil job. i always switch all oil base trim to water base .that's my story and im sticking to it


I used manor hall once on trim - it looked better than oil sprayed! I figured it was just a one time fluke.


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## Dunbar Painting (Mar 19, 2010)

What is the process that you guys use to put waterborne alkyd over previously painted oil trim?

In the past I have primed it all with coverstain and then painted 2 coats of the latex over it... or waterborne alkyd.

Is there a method that works faster/cheaper, but with the same quality. I was told, but not really ensured by a paint sales rep, that if you scuff the surface of the oil trim, you can put certain waterborne alkyds over it. Such as HP2000 by General Paint, and All Surface Enamel by Sherwin WIlliams.

thoughts?


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

plainpainter said:


> I used manor hall once on trim - it looked better than oil sprayed! I figured it was just a one time fluke.


I use a good bit of Manor Hall for trim and am happy with the results, not a fluke for me Dan.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Dunbar Painting said:


> What is the process that you guys use to put waterborne alkyd over previously painted oil trim?
> 
> In the past I have primed it all with coverstain and then painted 2 coats of the latex over it... or waterborne alkyd.
> 
> ...


should say of the data sheet I would think. never used the stuff yet. Probably won't. Doesn't seem like there is any reason to since it still takes like 6 hrs to dry and the new gen of acrylics are just as durable.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Workaholic said:


> I use a good bit of Manor Hall for trim and am happy with the results, not a fluke for me Dan.


I thought Bama was SW country?


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

johnpaint said:


> I thought Bama was SW country?


We got SW, PPG, BM, MAB, ICI, BLP to choose from. We Bama folks got lots of choices lol. 
SW has the most stores though.
then of course there is always Sears, Walmart, Lowes, HD


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Latex over oil is BAD, mm'kay? 

I hate informing home owners that wonder why their paint is peeling on a recent repaint that their prior painter was an idiot for not priming to convert, or using an oil based paint on top of the original oil trim paint.


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## Metro M & L (Jul 21, 2009)

sand old oil base for adhesion? not these days.


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## briancreary (Oct 12, 2010)

wow, I'm kind of suprised by the good response, I thought this was too specific. What my rep has been telling me though about alkyd's is that it does have the adhesion that oil did, with minimal prep, where as the latex's do not. I like the Alkyd's also because they are a bit more "leveling," in my oppinion than the acrylics, but I don't have anything against them really.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

briancreary said:


> If tomorrow the EPA outlawed all oil products what would you use on your trim? (Don't think it won't happen)


Its pretty much all banned in my parts. I can still get primer's, stain's, glaze's (quarts only). One thing that the regulation have done to our benefit, is made the manufactures advance on waterbourne products. I don't think that would have happened on their own. I avoid using oil as much as I can. I hate the crap, drytime, yellowing, clean up, hate it.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

The only thing I like about oil is the process of applying it. So far, no wb product is as nice to apply. Great working time to get it just right by brush.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Its pretty much all banned in my parts. I can still get primer's, stain's, glaze's (quarts only). One thing that the regulation have done to our benefit, is made the manufactures advance on waterbourne products. I don't think that would have happened on their own. I avoid using oil as much as I can. I hate the crap, drytime, yellowing, clean up, hate it.


 Man,, you forgot to mention that mold eats oil. Want a house to mold?? Just paint it with oil


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