# Sherwin Super Paint New Velvet sheen



## Surreal Painting (May 10, 2015)

Hello all. Just picked up a gallon of super paint velvet from sw. Paint manager called me and promoted it saying they just got it in. Suppose to be a cross between flat and satin. Have to admit I got excited I really do or did want a matte finish in cashmere or superpaint. First to pick up a gallon over here in my town. Its definitely not a matte.

Put it on my walls and im not 100% sold on it but ill have to get a good picture in morning. Seems to flow better then other superpaint sheens.. 2 coats of course. Did no prep to my walls prior which is weird of me usually I fix everything. Here are a few pics. Further testing to come. Camera doesn't do it justice . Wall still wet in spots looks weird..ignore that lol.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Tech Data Sheet doesn't say anything about the sheen. I'm surprised (although not so much given it's SW) that companies are still producing TDSs without sheen descriptions in them. What this says to me is that "velvet" is a very nice marketing word that will make people reeaaaaal excited to try the "new" super paint sheen, and that it's probably an eggshell or some other mid level sheen. There's nothing new in the world of sheens, every point in between flat and high gloss has been hit at some point or another, so any time someone slaps a word like "velvet" on it you pretty much know it's just a marketing sham, and since they don't have ANY real description of the gloss anywhere, "new" sheens like this are actually a bad thing for painters and decorators because it makes it hard to make informed decisions about the properties of the paint, and makes it hard(er) to match or get a similar look down the road for the next painter (or you).

"Sure, we'd love to repaint. Yes, we should be able to get very close to this color, it's SW Poop Brown. Just need to know what sheen it is."
'Velvet'
"That's not a sheen..."

/end rant


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Australian Painting said:


> If you are looking for quality painting services at a very affordable price. We guarantee you, we won't sacrifice the quality of our work. Check out www.australianpainting.com.au


Yah, I hear lots of painters are looking for painters these days.


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## Surreal Painting (May 10, 2015)

Woodford said:


> Australian Painting said:
> 
> 
> > If you are looking for quality painting services at a very affordable price. We guarantee you, we won't sacrifice the quality of our work. Check out www.australianpainting.com.au
> ...


Lol nice. Was thinking the same thing.

Its a nice sheen but I'm disappointed that its closer to satin then I'd like. I'm looking for a good matte near that price point. Not super excited about it any more besides saying velvet to a customer is probably gonna raise some eyebrows.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

There is some brouhaha within the ranks of SW to get their sheens/gloss levels more into line with the MPI approved levels. There are 5 levels, so they are moving some of their sheens around and adding some.

P&L is coming out with a new Prohide Gold line to cover all the sheens as opposed to changing the current Prohide line.

Whether this is why there is a sudden appearance of Superpaint velvet i'm not sure, but it could be why.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Woodford said:


> Yah, I hear lots of painters are looking for painters these days.


Do they commute to AhiA for free?


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## Jasonthep8nter (Aug 7, 2013)

I just want them to hurry up and bring out the low sheen ext super paint excited for that product


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## ShermanMoore (Mar 23, 2014)

Woodford said:


> Tech Data Sheet doesn't say anything about the sheen. I'm surprised (although not so much given it's SW) that companies are still producing TDSs without sheen descriptions in them. What this says to me is that "velvet" is a very nice marketing word that will make people reeaaaaal excited to try the "new" super paint sheen, and that it's probably an eggshell or some other mid level sheen. There's nothing new in the world of sheens, every point in between flat and high gloss has been hit at some point or another, so any time someone slaps a word like "velvet" on it you pretty much know it's just a marketing sham, and since they don't have ANY real description of the gloss anywhere, "new" sheens like this are actually a bad thing for painters and decorators because it makes it hard to make informed decisions about the properties of the paint, and makes it hard(er) to match or get a similar look down the road for the next painter (or you).
> 
> "Sure, we'd love to repaint. Yes, we should be able to get very close to this color, it's SW Poop Brown. Just need to know what sheen it is."
> 'Velvet'
> ...


The data sheet says 20-27 units at 85 degrees.


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## ShermanMoore (Mar 23, 2014)

I rolled some out today. Not as matte as I was hoping for, it really isn't that far below satin in sheen. I was hoping for more of a Regal Select matte or even eggshell look. But no cigar.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Can you link to the TDS you found that on? I looked it up this morning specifically to check for that and couldn't find it.


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## ShermanMoore (Mar 23, 2014)

Woodford said:


> Can you link to the TDS you found that on? I looked it up this morning specifically to check for that and couldn't find it.


Here you go.


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## ShermanMoore (Mar 23, 2014)

And I should mention, Woodford, that SW wouldn't be alone in not describing the sheen on the data sheet if they had failed to mention it. The TDS for Satin Impervo gives no number for gloss/sheen, instead providing simply the ever-so-precise and technical "low luster". :icon_confused:


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

ShermanMoore said:


> Here you go.


Thanks, I must have just missed it earlier. Probably _glossed_ over it since I was looking for the words "gloss" or "sheen." Where is 'open mouth, insert foot' smiley?

At any rate, I still stand by the rest of what I said. Fancy sheen names are bad for everyone involved (looking at you, pearl).


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

ShermanMoore said:


> And I should mention, Woodford, that SW wouldn't be alone in not describing the sheen on the data sheet if they had failed to mention it. The TDS for Satin Impervo gives no number for gloss/sheen, instead providing simply the ever-so-precise and technical "low luster". :icon_confused:


Older product; all new ones have it.


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## ShermanMoore (Mar 23, 2014)

Woodford said:


> At any rate, I still stand by the rest of what I said. Fancy sheen names are bad for everyone involved (looking at you, pearl).


Agreed. However, even "standard" sheens like eggshell are meaningless. Within BM it is inconsistent (got shinier from Super Spec to Ultra Spec), and from BM to SW forget it. And within the SW family of products eggshell changes as well. It's all a big mess.

But to your point, fancy marketing terms indeed just make it worse.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

So, let's review, shall we?

Pro-Mar 200 Egg: 15-20 units @ 85°
Super Satin: 10-20 units @ 85°
Super Velvet: 20 - 27 units @ 85°
Cashmere Low Lustre: 35-45 units @ 85° 
Cashmere Pearl: 60-70 units @ 85°
Cashmere Medium Lustre: 50-60 units @ *60°*
Super Semi: 25-35 units @ *60° *

Sooo, if you're looking for the lowest sheen, you might get it with SP Satin, but 1/4 of the time 200 Egg will be shinier, and if you wanna know were SP Semi and Cashmere ML fit in as far as sheen, well, I guess you're just SOL.

Pretty sure that measuring @ 60° is to determine the gloss, not the sheen, so when you really need to know, I guess it's best to guess. This may just be me beating a dead horse, but man, we really need some kind of Universal Standard for Sheens that all paint manufacturers must follow. Just look at all the threads about sheens. Make em slap a big number with a circle around it on the front of every label of every can. *Without clear information, there's only misinformation. *


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

There is a standard, as I posted earlier. P&L is adjusting their sheens/glosses to match the MPI 5 level system. This is starting to be used on more and more commercial specs. The problem is that all of the paint companies think their system is better. Also if all the sheens/glosses match, they think they may be losing a competitive edge of some sort.

For example, I have a custom home builder that has started using California Freshcoat Unite matte in place of some Cashmere sheen they had been using. They say the Unite is the first competitive paint that has a sheen close to the Cashmere. They would never use anything else because the sheen wasn't the same. SW had told them that there was something "special" (the builders quote) about the Cashmere line that caused it to have that particular sheen. BS. They were just marketing a sheen that no one else had bothered with.

As long as Sheens/glosses are primarily used as marketing terms, the paint companies will never standardize them. They don't really care about the trouble this causes the painters.

Most industrial spec's have very specific sheen/gloss requirements so most Industrial/commercial paints are made to those specific sheen requirements. Cabinet and furniture manufacturers also have specific sheen level requirements. The NKCA (National Kitchen cabinet association) specifies clear finishes as D.R.E, M.R.E, B.R.E, and Gloss. Each falling into a specific gloss range. If a manufacturer doesn't produce their clears to be those specific sheen/gloss ranges, the cabinets cannot be sold with a NKCA certification.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> So, let's review, shall we?
> 
> Pro-Mar 200 Egg: 15-20 units @ 85°
> Super Satin: 10-20 units @ 85°
> ...


I honestly don't even care about the names. If they want to sucker customers with the asinine terms like velvet and pearl, then more power to them. That's the way of marketing and sales. But what IS important is having that information readily available and not obfuscated for the people who actually need it. As you said, if, on every can, there was a big number on the back with the actual sheen rating I don't care if they call their sheens "spaghetti and meatballs."

Getting sheens standardized on TDS is a good first start. All of the modern-era Ben Moore products have sheen @ 85 as far as I know, which is a definite improvement. Hopefully other companies will see reason and start/continue adding that.


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