# Surface Prep Question



## brettlyman (Jul 17, 2009)

i'am new at this but very enthusiastic! Need some help with a house i'am painting.
2 sides have peeled badly and so i scraped as best i could and put primer (oil based) and peel bond on it. the customer wants a surface that looks smoother at least from the street view. I need to know do i just primer it again or what!


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## Jay123 (Feb 1, 2008)

you're pretty much screwed :yes:


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

brettlyman said:


> i'am new at this but very enthusiastic! Need some help with a house i'am painting.
> 2 sides have peeled badly and so i scraped as best i could and put primer (oil based) and peel bond on it. the customer wants a surface that looks smoother at least from the street view. I need to know do i just primer it again or what!


I would suggest you go to the introductions forum and post an intro. Give us a little background on yourself and your business plus experience and then maybe we can help.


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## Jay123 (Feb 1, 2008)

Prowall...nice avatar :whistling2:


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## Nathan (Mar 28, 2007)

brettlyman said:


> i'am new at this but very enthusiastic! Need some help with a house i'am painting.
> 2 sides have peeled badly and so i scraped as best i could and put primer (oil based) and peel bond on it. the customer wants a surface that looks smoother at least from the street view. I need to know do i just primer it again or what!


How about an Introduction where you can tell us a little more about yourself? Also, are you working on your own or for someone? Sounds like you need to get some training before going out on your own. 
This site is a great place to come and talk with other pros but probably not the best place to get painting 101 questions answered. I'd suggest posting on www.DIYChatroom.com or asking your local paint store for product help.

Thanks.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

*Dealing with Painting 101 questions*



brettlyman said:


> i'am new at this but very enthusiastic! Need some help with a house i'am painting.
> 2 sides have peeled badly and so i scraped as best i could and put primer (oil based) and peel bond on it. the customer wants a surface that looks smoother at least from the street view. I need to know do i just primer it again or what!


I can not answer that without seeing the extent of the project. You have to be careful when starting out. Sometimes people can smell a newbie and they will take advantage of you. You should have level of prep laid out in your scope of/proposal. Maybe should have been more sanding before applying peel bond. I would use more peel bond and trim magic, do a section, have them approve it, then go to town. Make sure you are getting the right millage with the high build products. You have to let them do there job.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

There's a new crop of less experienced painters lately, and believe me, I really think it's great that they want to learn. And I am of the mindset that the better they are trained, the better it is for the industry as a whole. And I agree that some questions can't be answered without the OP having some rudimentary knowledge. AND also, we all understand answering rudimentary questions is a bit tedious day in and day out.

I was wondering if there could be a place here for the real painting newbie. I mean, we all hire raw recruits and take the time to train them, why not here ? But, like the raw recruits in the field, they are not paid as much as the rest of us. Maybe we could have a section for those noobs with a decent archive of the basics that they can study - that they would NEED to study as a pre-requisite. 

Again, we need to find a way that satisfies everyone's needs. 

Sorry, I am having trouble not wanting to find a way to reach out to the noob who is serious about continuing in the field. I just remember myself back in 71.


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## TooledUp (May 17, 2008)

My mindset is that you can only teach a trade with hands on experience taught by a skilled tradesman. Answering such questions as this without physically seeing a job is pi$$ing against the wind. Imo, it can't be done. Ask yourself one thing. If took your car to a garage, would you expect it to be repaired by a mechanic? How would you react if you found him asking how to fix your car in an internet forum?


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

TooledUp said:


> My mindset is that you can only teach a trade with hands on experience taught by a skilled tradesman. Answering such questions as this without physically seeing a job is pi$$ing against the wind. Imo, it can't be done. Ask yourself one thing. If took your car to a garage, would you expect it to be repaired by a mechanic? How would you react if you found him asking how to fix your car in an internet forum?


Pete,

I'm not arguing any of your points - I can't. I just want to help as much as possible. "Staff" is talking now.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Sand with 220 grit by hand.


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## TooledUp (May 17, 2008)

daArch said:


> Pete,
> 
> I'm not arguing any of your points - I can't. I just want to help as much as possible. "Staff" is talking now.


Bill. Why don't you suggest to Nathan, or pass the idea of creating a new forum for people wishing to enter into the construction industry? Just judging by the amount we get joining here and the amount I saw over at CT there must be 1000's of potential members. Maybe even some of the trades from the rest of the forum network would jump onboard and offer advice on getting work, getting training and giving general advice like what a contractor would look for when interviewing and how to maximize their chances of getting that job out of all of the other candidates? It's just a thought...


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## TooledUp (May 17, 2008)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Sand with 220 grit by hand.


I would use one of them swirly sanders.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Dude! That was a secret, you will have to pay for that on. 
Gee Whiz.....


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

TooledUp said:


> Ask yourself one thing. If took your car to a garage, would you expect it to be repaired by a mechanic? How would you react if you found him asking how to fix your car in an internet forum?


or how about heart surgery or breast implants!!

But painting is kinda the red-headed stepchild of the trades unfortunately.

Some people feel like anybody can do it and it doesnt require skill and knowledge. I think its bs, but some don't. I think the only way to change this is to have standardized instruction for certification. So then it would illustrate mastery of the trade. In doing this, education could be brought to the Customer why quality and appropriate procedures and knowlege really matters to their pocketbooks as well. I guess even with this, people can still hire who they want, so Idk if things would change in the residential precincts. For remodels perhaps that require permits, but it would be hard to track repaints. Kinda rambling now. Enough.


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## TooledUp (May 17, 2008)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Dude! That was a secret, you will have to pay for that on.
> Gee Whiz.....


Sorry it was a freudian slip. What I meant to say was use both sides of the sandpaper.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Dude! That was a secret, you will have to pay for that on. 
Gee Whiz.....


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## TooledUp (May 17, 2008)

TJ Paint said:


> I think the only way to change this is to have standardized instruction for certification. So then it would illustrate mastery of the trade. In doing this, education could be brought to the Customer why quality and appropriate procedures and knowlege really matters to their pocketbooks as well. I guess even with this, people can still hire who they want, so Idk if things would change in the residential precincts. For remodels perhaps that require permits, but it would be hard to track repaints. Kinda rambling now. Enough.


We have this for all trades in the UK. There are some guys who don't go through official apprenticeships and they are deemed to be just as qualified after serving 5 years training as opposed to 3 years with an apprenticeship. Almost all of the trades start their training at 16/17 years old. It's rare (but not unheard of) for more mature people to train in a trade here.


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## TooledUp (May 17, 2008)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Dude! That was a secret, you will have to pay for that on.
> Gee Whiz.....


Sorry I hit the post button before I finshed. What I meant to say was use both sides of the sandpaper, one side for sanding and the other for removing clingons when you run out of toilet roll. 


I find 40 grit better for the latter. I tried it with the swirly sander thingy once but it shredded my pants.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

brettlyman said:


> i'am new at this but very enthusiastic! Need some help with a house i'am painting.
> I need to know do i just primer it again or what!


first post and things are messed up for ya. Crazy stuff, sorry man.

A suggestion would be if the homeowner wants u to do more, renegotiate the price for the extra work. Sounds like communicating wasn't that great, get it figured out now before you find that you could make more money at Taco Bell.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

TooledUp said:


> My mindset is that you can only teach a trade with hands on experience taught by a skilled tradesman. Answering such questions as this without physically seeing a job is pi$$ing against the wind. Imo, it can't be done. Ask yourself one thing. If took your car to a garage, would you expect it to be repaired by a mechanic? How would you react if you found him asking how to fix your car in an internet forum?


That's hilarious!! do you really equate painting with the dangers involved in driving a 2,000 Lb. machine down the road @ 70 MPH .
I think a section for newbies is a great idea...you could chime in if you want,be helpful, or just ignore them if they bother you. I look at it as a chance to educate. Maybe have a disclaimer at the beginning of it telling them to research the threads for your answers before posting to avoid redundancy and to not piss off the old grumpy guys:whistling2:


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

http://www.jsonline.com/business/50935662.html Harley just laid off 400 locally.. I am sure some of them will be on asking questions soon.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

There are some techniques in painting that can not be taught by the written word. Like floating a wall with mud, proper roller technique, mixing colors, keeping that little nubby of paint on the bristles as you cut a fine line, kneading putty just right for the weather conditions, running a line of caulk just right, etc etc. 

OH, and then there are the "How much to charge for ......"

BUT, there are many fundamentals that can be taught by the written word. 

I'm beginning to like a Painting 101 section or maybe a whole new BB.

NewbieTalk.com :thumbup: 

moderators can sign up after school. (don't even THINK of posting that time :whistling2: )


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

what tree-fiddy+7t?


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## TooledUp (May 17, 2008)

aaron61 said:


> That's hilarious!! do you really equate painting with the dangers involved in driving a 2,000 Lb. machine down the road @ 70 MPH .
> I think a section for newbies is a great idea...you could chime in if you want,be helpful, or just ignore them if they bother you. I look at it as a chance to educate. Maybe have a disclaimer at the beginning of it telling them to research the threads for your answers before posting to avoid redundancy and to not piss off the old grumpy guys:whistling2:


The comparison wasn't the safety factor so much as the cost of putting things right and the heartache that's caused by the mess left behind on an expensive item you own and work hard to get.

I don't understand how you think that answering their questions is a good thing. If they're asking here then by answering them you are giving them a false sense of security. Like Bill said, there are some things that can be learned by reading but not the skills. Skill is a big part of the trade. If somebody is in training then they would be asking their boss or mentour, which means that if they're asking basics here then they aren't in training. I wouldn't be happy to find out the guy who's working on my home 'learned' his trade on an internet forum.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

I can see this is going to be the main topic(s) on this forum for awhile. I just dont see any easy solution. There is only so much the mods and members can do. This could either be a turning point for this forum or it remains as it always has been.

My take is that advice is always free and given...what the person does with it is up to them. Some of these questions can really seem basic but what if you have a person with 2-5 years of experience and all was in commercial? Now they're doing residential and running into problems that they have never had to deal with before? Not saying this is the case here but I think you can catch my drift.




....another neutral answer from the Wolfster.


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## deach (May 11, 2008)

Wolfgang said:


> I can see this is going to be the main topic(s) on this forum for awhile. I just dont see any easy solution. There is only so much the mods and members can do. This could either be a turning point for this forum or it remains as it always has been.
> 
> My take is that advice is always free and given...what the person does with it is up to them. Some of these questions can really seem basic but what if you have a person with 2-5 years of experience and all was in commercial? Now they're doing residential and running into problems that they have never had to deal with before? Not saying this is the case here but I think you can catch my drift.
> 
> ...



Good answer. It's obvious that some here are ok with some helping and some aren't. There's been a lot of discussion here about what if other people learned things on the internet. (I don't mean the basic trade but get information on the internet, or maybe found a specific answer to a problem on the internet. YES I'd hope that anyone that has been at their trade a bit, (whoever) and runs across something they haven't seen before or handled before uses every resource possible to fix that problem. Doctors use trade journals all the time. Mechanics have books, use internet, have diagrams on the computers and use them all the time. 

This forum (it seems to me anyway) is at a turning point. It can either just turn into a BS forum where people argue or what ever all the time or, hopefully be a forum where picking up a tip or two, maybe learning something one doesn't know about a specific "part" of our trade that perhaps they haven't done before, or maybe a tip about a product along the way. (with the new paints they've introduced here in the last several years honestly I think that would be a wonderful thing to get input on things like that). 

I'll guess we'll see where it goes. Forums can either be just a place to hang out or a true "professional" forum where ideas, products, and other information may be exchanged.


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## TooledUp (May 17, 2008)

Wolfgang said:


> I can see this is going to be the main topic(s) on this forum for awhile. I just dont see any easy solution. There is only so much the mods and members can do. This could either be a turning point for this forum or it remains as it always has been.
> 
> My take is that advice is always free and given...what the person does with it is up to them. Some of these questions can really seem basic but what if you have a person with 2-5 years of experience and all was in commercial? Now they're doing residential and running into problems that they have never had to deal with before? Not saying this is the case here but I think you can catch my drift.
> 
> ...


That is precisely why I think accredited training is a good idea. I think it should be introduced everywhere. It's also why I don't think opening a new forum for people to get advice on training and how to get into the industry is a bad one. We need more high standard skilled people in the trades and I, for one, would welcome and encourage anyone who wants to learn a trade the right way in any way I could. When you start moving the goalposts on standards then lower standard work will become the norm. If there was such a place where somebody who genuinely wants to get into the trade then I'd happily join in and take an active role in pointing them in the right direction. They may even get a job directly from tradesmen that participate in the forum.

I've often heard the term "there's no right or wrong way do do it" thrown about. That is a misleading falicy. There may be several 'right' ways to do it and there are always more wrong ways. Accredited training sets standards and procedures that are acceptable in the industry. It also eliminates 'bad habits' being passed on as the correct procedure. I don't believe there is such a thing in the USA but if enough businesses lobbied for it to happen then there's every possiblity that it could become a reality. That could only be good for business and the general public at large.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

I dont disagree with you Tooled, but accredited training is something that is almost non-existent in this field. Even the union training I would consider suspect in alot of cases.  Basically we have to work with what we have. 

There are those who learn only when they have to and others who take the time and use the proper information available to teach one's self.

Perhaps a PT accreditation tag? LOL


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