# Ladder stability in foyer?



## salestrainer (Oct 4, 2009)

Getting ready to start job painting 2-story foyer, tested out my m/t 17 werner adjustable ladder on wood floor, doesn't seem as stable as I thought. Also have tile area to deal with, it would be slicker I would think. Was not planning on using anything to firm up ladder, should I? Also being this is first 2 story foyer i've done, what is the best way to keep ladder from scuffing wall. I am planning on rolling last after trimming of course. Any tips would be appreciated!


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Bill had a thread on this recently. I really would recommend that you not do a job with this degree of difficulty, particularly solo, at this point in your career.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

howtopainttalk.com


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Buy some ladder boots/mits for the end of your ladder so it does not scuff or dent the wall. 

There are all kinds of ladder stabalizers and pads that can be used for slippage.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Sean

With all due respect, I have to disagree here. This one is a recipe for disaster. I know experienced painters who have gone foyer surfing. Too much potential for physical injury and property damage to put the pt stamp on this one. 

To this day, I require a footer to be present for these situations.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> Bill had a thread on this recently. I really would recommend that you not do a job with this degree of difficulty, particularly solo, at this point in your career.


sailstrainer, I would highly recommend that you heed the safety advice, generously provided to you in the attached quote. 

Also remember that your in the business to earn money, not break your neck. And don't consider using duct tape to secure the ladder footings. 

Good luck to you mate!


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> Sean
> 
> With all due respect, I have to disagree here. This one is a recipe for disaster. I know experienced painters who have gone foyer surfing. Too much potential for physical injury and property damage to put the pt stamp on this one.
> 
> To this day, I require a footer to be present for these situations.


True but i know he is a one man shop so I mentioned the stabalizers and pads. Not completely taking into account how green he is. 

Trainer, if you have someone that can help you out for this part of the project you might be better off. Maybe a buddy or your wife or anybody that can be percieved as professional. 

As Scott pointed out many of experienced painters have caused damage to the the job, and death to others, or to themselfs in similar curcumstances. 

What I suggested will work but will cost you some money to buy the proper equipment and even with the proper equipment anything could happen. 

Rolling scaffold is another option but can scuff the floor and is also easiest with the aid of another.


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## salestrainer (Oct 4, 2009)

Where is that how to painttalk.com located? ........Seriously I appreciate the concern. I gotta do one sometime, and this is close to home, only job I have on the burner right now. I agree I am a bit concerned about it and plan on being very careful. I have read all of the ladder threads on here I think. How do one man shows handle this job if they do attempt this? Would renting the cage type scaffolding be a option instead of using ladder?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

st

If you cannot refuse the temptation, I would recommend two things:

1. Pay someone to stand on the bottom rung of your ladder all day long, no matter what it costs. 

2. Advil


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Portable Ladder Safety Tips​
Falls from portable ladders (step, straight, combination and extension) are one of the leading causes of occupational fatalities and injuries. 

Read and follow all labels/markings on the ladder.
Avoid electrical hazards! – Look for overhead power lines before handling a ladder. Avoid using a metal ladder near power lines or exposed energized electrical equipment.
Always inspect the ladder prior to using it. If the ladder is damaged, it must be removed from service and tagged until repaired or discarded.
Do not use a self-supporting ladder (e.g., step ladder) as a single ladder or in a partially closed position.
Do not use the top step/rung of a ladder as a step/rung unless it was designed for that purpose. Portable Ladder Safety Tips TM








Always maintain a 3-point (two hands and a foot, or two feet and a hand) contact on the ladder when climbing. Keep your body near the middle of the step and always face the ladder while climbing (see diagram).
Only use ladders and appropriate accessories (ladder levelers, jacks or hooks) for their designed purposes.
Ladders must be free of any slippery material on the rungs, steps or feet.
Do not use a self-supporting ladder (e.g., step ladder) as a single ladder or in a partially closed position.
Do not use the top step/rung of a ladder as a step/rung unless it was designed for that purpose.
Use a ladder only on a stable and level surface, unless it has been secured (top or bottom) to prevent displacement.
Do not place a ladder on boxes, barrels or other unstable bases to obtain additional height.
Do not move or shift a ladder while a person or equipment is on the ladder.








An extension or straight ladder used to access an elevated surface must extend at least 3 feet above the point of support (see diagram). Do not stand on the three top rungs of a straight, single or extension ladder.
The proper angle for setting up a ladder is to place its base a quarter of the working length of the ladder from the wall or other vertical surface (see diagram).
A ladder placed in any location where it can be displaced by other work activities must be secured to prevent displacement or a barricade must be erected to keep traffic away from the ladder.
Be sure that all locks on an extension ladder are properly engaged.
Do not exceed the maximum load rating of a ladder. Be aware of the ladder’s load rating and of the weight it is supporting, including the weight of any tools or equipment.

*For more complete information:*







Occupational
Safety and Health
AdministrationU.S. Department of Labor
www.osha.gov (800) 321-OSHA
​


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Workaholic said:


> True but i know he is a one man shop so I mentioned the stabalizers and pads. Not completely taking into account how green he is.
> 
> Trainer, if you have someone that can help you out for this part of the project you might be better off. *Maybe a buddy or your wife or anybody that can be percieved as professional. *
> 
> ...


I've used a large dog with a company T-Shirt. He looked really professional!

Sorry Workaholic, the door was open.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

You guys are bad...........


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Ok whoa this puppy up for a second. I apologize I am practically braindead from print estimating this week. But...

Did you say you were doing this with a telescoping ladder? If so, there are no conditions under which I can support this idea. Sit home. Be healthy. 90% of interior jobs can be done with a 4' step. Trust me, I rode my extension with grippy bumpers about halfway down a foyer wall on drops over a maple floor about 10 years ago. Its hard to keep from spilling the cut pot when you are filling your britches.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

CApainter said:


> I've used a large dog with a company T-Shirt. He looked really professional!
> 
> Sorry Workaholic, the door was open.


lol got a pic? 
The large dog is very handy for many situations. 


The actual sight for howtopainttalk.com is really www.DIYChatroom.com 

Seriously though someone at the bottom of the ladder is going to be the safest and cheapest route providing you can get the help. 

If you use a ladder do not forget the ladder boots/mits. They are like 7 dollars a set and all trades should use them.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> Its hard to keep from spilling the cut pot when you are filling your britches.


That is a hell of a signature right there.


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## tedrin (Oct 22, 2008)

salestrainer said:


> Getting ready to start job painting 2-story foyer, tested out my m/t 17 werner adjustable ladder on wood floor, doesn't seem as stable as I thought. Also have tile area to deal with, it would be slicker I would think. Was not planning on using anything to firm up ladder, should I? Also being this is first 2 story foyer i've done, what is the best way to keep ladder from scuffing wall. I am planning on rolling last after trimming of course. Any tips would be appreciated!


I once had to cut in a 20' vaulted ceiling in a log house...The floors were hardwood and the angle made me very uncomfortable.....It was way out in the country so I didn't rent any scaffolding.

I decided to tape the feet of the ladder onto the hardwood floor with duck tape...I used long pieces that really stuck to the floor and feet of the extension ladder...I also made damn sure that the angle was not too stressful on the feet of the ladder....It was time consuming but I painted the whole living room/dining room using that method...I had to used "Goo-Gone" to clean the duck tape glue residue off the floor...

That being said,I'm not sure if a safety officer would have OK'd that method..I did feel MUCH safer with the ladder secured to the floor with duck tape......That ladder wasn't moving anywhere!...The ladder probably would not have slipped on the floor,but I wasn't taking any chances!...The tape really eased my fears.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

wasn't there a post about laddersafety.com or something??

Wait a minute, let me check ...................

here it is

http://www.laddersafety.org/

take a look at that

Now I'm confused about the ladder you are thinking about. You said 
"m/t 17 werner adjustable ladder" Is that an A frame ladder like the Little Giant? I know they make a tall one. If that is the ladder, you should be fine. If you feel uncomfortable on it, then you have another issue, IMO. 

Now, if it is a regular extension ladder and you are insistent on doing this after all the advice, put some rubber roofing under the feet and make sure your angle is just a wee bit steep. By rubber roofing I mean the stuff they put under the asphalt shingles to prevent leaks from roof dams. I used some a few years ago on a slate floor and then we had planks on the ladders. It was incredibly secure. But I tend to be a little fearless on ladders once I got my legs.

Also pad the feet against the walls. I actually have made a board with carpeting on it because sometimes I am FORCED to lean a ladder against wet wallpaper and need to spread out the weight. 

But remember this PRIMARY rule, If you feel at all uncomfortable,. DO NOT PROCEED. A case of the nerves will cause an accident even if your set-up is safe. 

Rolling staging would be by far the safest. I think a baker type can be as high as fifteen feet (with outriggers). If I was painting a lot of tall foyers, I would have invested in one many years ago. 

Just remember the old clique, *Safety is no accident*


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Bills suggestion is very good. The material is called Grace Ice and Water Shield. Pull the backing paper off and stick it right to the floor. Then when you pull it, you will learn all about refinishing wood flooring. Sorry Bill, couldnt resist. I cant think of a worse idea.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> Bills suggestion is very good. The material is called Grace Ice and Water Shield. Pull the backing paper off and stick it right to the floor. Then when you pull it, you will learn all about refinishing wood flooring. Sorry Bill, couldnt resist. I cant think of a worse idea.


That's OK Scott. The stuff we used did not have any adhesive. And I was cautiously pessimistic about it working. I brought all sorts of 2 x 4 's to brace the feet. But my helper had done a lot of this - she's done much more commercial goods than I. I tested and tested once the ladders were set. She did spot the foot until I was fully confident.

Scott, you know I would have had doubts about this and would not be suggesting it if I did not have such a good experience. OH, and I think it was 19 feet from floor to ceiling. We were handling 54" type II vinyl, so you know that stuff had a little weight. 


But I did wonder why she did not climb the ladder :whistling2:

Hey, I'm here as proof it worked :thumbup:


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Just bustin on ya Bill. It would be pretty funny to lay down Ice and Water on a nice foyer hardwood floor. I would only do it if the floor had radiant heat though!


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

put it sticky side up and it would REALLY hold the ladder :jester:


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## Metro M & L (Jul 21, 2009)

I cannot believe you used duct tape to hold a ladder in place. And survived.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Metro M & L said:


> I cannot believe you used duct tape to hold a ladder in place. And survived.


I too was a bit taken back by the duct tape post but figured it must of been more of a confidence thing then saftey precaution, not that I would have much confidence in the duct tape.


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> I cant think of a worse idea.


I don't know anything about that adhesive paper, and I don't doubt your expertise that the floor might suffer damage. 

But I can think of at least _*one*_ worse idea, which would be to have that ladder slip out from underneath you and crack your skull open!


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## Dbo (Nov 29, 2009)

I always use an anti slip rug under ladder when there is wood floors or tile. It also protects the floor. When the backing gets a little worn just replace the rug.


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

To answer the question though, I agree someone footing the ladder is a worthwhile investment.


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## tedrin (Oct 22, 2008)

Workaholic said:


> I too was a bit taken back by the duct tape post but figured it must of been more of a confidence thing then saftey precaution, not that I would have much confidence in the duct tape.


 
The angle was steep enough to not put pressure on the feet...The duct tape held extremely well...You'd have to see it....It just sounds strange...I basically taped about a foot of duct tape to the floor in 4 or more directions and over each foot of the extension ladder...I have the square footed ladder levelers on my extension ladders,made by louisville......That sucker wasn't going to move.

http://www.google.com/products/cata...ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBAQ8wIwAA#ps-sellers


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

tedrin said:


> The angle was steep enough to not put pressure on the feet...The duct tape held extremely well...You'd have to see it....It just sounds strange...I'm not a stupid guy.


I could see where it would work.

Ultimately the force is going down, any grip would lever the force even more downward.

I personally would find a more osha approved method, but functionally, I could see strips of double sided tape giving plenty of grip.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

tedrin said:


> The angle was steep enough to not put pressure on the feet...The duct tape held extremely well...You'd have to see it....It just sounds strange...I basically taped about a foot of duct tape to the floor in 4 or more directions and over each foot of the extension ladder...I have the square footed ladder levelers on my extension ladders,made by louisville......That sucker wasn't going to move.
> 
> http://www.google.com/products/cata...ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBAQ8wIwAA#ps-sellers


I can see it working, invention is the product of necessity, not the advice I would give to a greenhorn but I can see it working for you. 
I use the same levelers for my 16' and my 24' except they have a round foot on them.


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

Workaholic said:


> I can see it working, invention is the product of necessity, not the advice I would give to a greenhorn but I can see it working for you.
> I use the same levelers for my 16' and my 24' except they have a round foot on them.


Yeah, the round ones are better.

Can you find those levelers any more without the retarded guard on it that does allow you to reach down with your foot and level it?

F*ing OSHA. They messed up ladder jacsk too.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

I guess one method that hasnt been considered so far would be to screw a 2x4 into the floor across the feet of the ladder (on the side of the feet that is away from the wall you are working on, of course). Then, when done, pull the screws and fill the holes. :no:

Foyers have always been challening but I had no idea what a circus they might really be. Is it really that difficult to have a helper footing for the day? Maybe so. 

Bottom line is that some projects are better suited to a 2 man approach, and not great for solo flight.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

All tho I am most comfortable with a footer most of the time if I had to do something quick with the ladder in the foyer on slippery floors I have used the pivot tool wedged under the bottom rung and it work fine. I have also used a cheap rug that has the rubber backing which grips nicely to the floor... Also make sure the ladder is not too much on a angle helps with distributing the weight straight down and not out..

Good luck.. and pay up your disability


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## Roadog (Apr 18, 2007)

I use staging. And being mostly one man show, I can safely build it up myself.
Nice thing with these is one level can roll through door openings (use to do a lot of old houses with 12 ft ceilings) and it saves your feet from ladder burn! I have one more level....can get pretty high. Well worth the investment.


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

Hopefully you will get a someone to foot the ladder, if not use some type of rubber matt on the bottom of the ladder, like the backing for carpet, also see if you can secure the bottom of the ladder, like run a steb ladder on the floor againtst it, securing the step ladder. be carefull not to scratch the floors. 

If you have never done this before, Im a little pissed and feel sorry for the HO that hired you, its not really fare for the HO to hire a professional and get some guy learning the trade on their dime. Sorry to be harsh but this is the type of thing you learn from working for a pro. This is also the type of thing that gives the industry a bad name. 


Goodluck


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Dave Mac said:


> Hopefully you will get a someone to foot the ladder, if not use some type of rubber matt on the bottom of the ladder, like the backing for carpet, also see if you can secure the bottom of the ladder, like run a steb ladder on the floor againtst it, securing the step ladder. be carefull not to scratch the floors.
> 
> If you have never done this before, Im a little pissed and feel sorry for the HO that hired you, its not really fare for the HO to hire a professional and get some guy learning the trade on their dime. Sorry to be harsh but this is the type of thing you learn from working for a pro. This is also the type of thing that gives the industry a bad name.
> 
> ...


Well said. Case closed!


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## salestrainer (Oct 4, 2009)

I may be prospecting too much,lol....as some of you know, I came from a serious sales background, and have been prospecting like crazy, and probably getting some jobs that I shouldn't. While some guys locally who can probably paint circles around me at this point are waiting for the phone to ring, I have been marketing houses close to me and many have 2 -story foyers. I will for sure have a helper that day, and yes the werner is like a little giant and i have a ladder pivot. I also have been looking at scaffolding which would be a good investment. I appreciate the concern, I am a bit suprised at some responses, I really thought that if I said i was gonna pass on the job, I would have been given hell for not stepping up and doing the job. Maybe I have taken a tough route starting without much experience, but I am a fast learner and hard -headed, and I really do appreciate the help I have gotten on here!


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Just go get some rubber bath mats with the suction cups on the bottom and you'll be fine....and try not to lean the ladder over the bannister.


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## salestrainer (Oct 4, 2009)

I feel like getting leads will be a strength, so my goal is to have so many leads I can pass on jobs like this or have a helper eventually. Again thanks for the concern, I thought I would be given a hard time if I didn't take the job. That being said I watched some "pro's" down the street painting a 2-story foyer that scared the #@@** out of me, and these guys been doing it way longer than I've been! You guys have to remember you are the best of the best on this site, many "pro's" give the profession are worse name than some newbies. I always strive strive the best very professional on a job, that is one reason i got into this, because I have heard so many complaints from HO's about their last experience. Again I do appreciate the concern.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Trainer, 

Any paint contracting business, regardless of its business model, size, workforce configuration, needs to have a healthy balance between the different aspects of its operation: marketing/sales/estimating, field execution, etc. Yours is a little out of balance right now and the weakness is in the area that is most visible to the consumer: skills and knowledge required to complete the work. It calls into question, and this is frequent on the forum, how can you estimate and sell a small job that you are not sure how to execute? Small jobs are often more difficult to execute properly than larger projects because you are dealing with smaller numbers and margins. It doesnt take much to make it a loser in the numbers, and to lose customers and reputation rather quickly. 

On the bright side, most paint contracting companies do not have a healthy balance between the different critical components of their business, so you should not be too ashamed.


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## [email protected] (Mar 1, 2008)

As one that has ladder suft. Parkay flooring that was being strip of wall cover. + 1 for 25 or a footer or scafing


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## Metro M & L (Jul 21, 2009)

vermontpainter said:


> Trainer,
> 
> Any paint contracting business, regardless of its business model, size, workforce configuration, needs to have a healthy balance between the different aspects of its operation: marketing/sales/estimating, field execution, etc. Yours is a little out of balance right now and the weakness is in the area that is most visible to the consumer: skills and knowledge required to complete the work. It calls into question, and this is frequent on the forum, how can you estimate and sell a small job that you are not sure how to execute? Small jobs are often more difficult to execute properly than larger projects because you are dealing with smaller numbers and margins. It doesnt take much to make it a loser in the numbers, and to lose customers and reputation rather quickly.
> 
> On the bright side, most paint contracting companies do not have a healthy balance between the different critical components of their business, so you should not be too ashamed.


If I had to put my money on a salesman making it as a painter or a painter making it as a salesman my money would be on the first option all day long.


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## Woody (Jan 7, 2010)

Well get some whites on, and start painting..salesman.
You gotta start somewhere. You can't have the money,.. If you don't do ALL phases of the business.


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## salestrainer (Oct 4, 2009)

Just got a call to give an estimate on a basement job, a referral from a flooring store I have been calling on twice a month, maybe I need to slow down on prospecting,lol! Anyway the lady as of today is delaying the foyer job, may do it them self, wtf? After listening to you guys, I may let her, lol!


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## salestrainer (Oct 4, 2009)

Roadog, how much is a setup like that picture, the scaffolding, cage etc, I looked at something similar that was around $1000?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

salestrainer said:


> Just got a call to give an estimate on a basement job, a referral from a flooring store I have been calling on twice a month, maybe I need to slow down on prospecting,lol!


You should sell for guys like us who know how to paint but dont know how to sell! From time to time companies here are looking for salespeople and/or estimators. Do what you do best! If you are out there painting, you wont have so much time to sell. Thats the quagmire of the startup. You have all kinds of time right now. Selling is actually the easy part. Go out there and do the work 8/40 and you will find selling to be a different deal. Balance in all things, salestrainer.


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## Woody (Jan 7, 2010)

salestrainer said:


> Just got a call to give an estimate on a basement job, a referral from a flooring store I have been calling on twice a month, maybe I need to slow down on prospecting,lol! Anyway the lady as of today is delaying the foyer job, may do it them self, wtf? After listening to you guys, I may let her, lol!


It happens sometimes....so what. Hope you get the basement job !


Stay Frosty


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## Woody (Jan 7, 2010)

vermontpainter said:


> You should sell for guys like us who know how to paint but dont know how to sell! From time to time companies here are looking for salespeople and/or estimators. Do what you do best! If you are out there painting, you wont have so much time to sell. Thats the quagmire of the startup. You have all kinds of time right now. Selling is actually the easy part. Go out there and do the work 8/40 and you will find selling to be a different deal. Balance in all things, salestrainer.


Owners come on hear to "look for sales help !"
......Put my name in the hat.. "Have mouth, will travel"


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Roadog said:


> I use staging. And being mostly one man show, I can safely build it up myself.
> Nice thing with these is one level can roll through door openings (use to do a lot of old houses with 12 ft ceilings) and it saves your feet from ladder burn! I have one more level....can get pretty high. Well worth the investment.



Roadog,

That's what I'm talking about.

How high is the max platform on one of those, I forget


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## IHATE_HOMEDEPOT (May 27, 2008)

I wonder if this would be good to use in a pinch. Suction cups that you could put at the base of ladder. The spec sheet says only says 60-100 lbs. but for slippage you do not need a whole lot. Only 40 doll hairs. http://www.anver.com/document/company/vacuum_cups.htm


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

here's what many a paperhanger faces:


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## [email protected] (Mar 1, 2008)

You know some times I wish OSHA would bust people like that.Or the TV people, That do just as stupid of thing. It is one thing to quietly do something stupid, another thing to advertise it.
David


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## Woody (Jan 7, 2010)

daArch said:


> here's what many a paperhanger faces:


 
He should of contacted an areal equipment company... would of made his job alot easier
Genie, has the perfect miniature man lift, for this job.

(Must put plywood on floor..first)


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## boman47k (May 10, 2008)

I once used a 10' step ladder, brush holder and pole to cut in a 17' foyer. But, it was same color paint. If it had been a different color, it might not have looked as good. As it turned out, I had no problem. I then roled with a 12' sher-lock pole. Everyone was very pleased.


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## Flaky (Sep 12, 2008)

Screw a 2x4 through the baseboard into the wall studs. Attach heavy-duty screw-eyes to the middle of the 2x4 every few feet. Tie the ladder to the first screw-eye, then move on to the next one, etc. It's best to tie the rope to the rung where the rope makes a 90 degree angle to the ladder. If you put it too high, the bottom of the ladder can slip out away from the wall, and if you put it too low, it can slip from side to side. And of course use a stabilizer at the top of the ladder.


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## Builtmany (Dec 5, 2009)

Workaholic said:


> Buy some ladder boots/mits for the end of your ladder so it does not scuff or dent the wall.
> 
> There are all kinds of ladder stabalizers and pads that can be used for slippage.


that seemed to work flawlessly for me each time with a 2 story foyer.


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## Woody (Jan 7, 2010)

I can truely understand the ladder mittens, and use them constantly.... but putting something at the bottom of the ladder, or having someone stand on it ..is rediculas.
I'm sorry to be rude, but I had to say something. There is no need to even post here, if you can't control or use a ladder...wtf

Maybe, I should g. f..myself lol


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Woody said:


> I can truely understand the ladder mittens, and use them constantly.... but putting something at the bottom of the ladder, or having someone stand on it ..is rediculas.
> I'm sorry to be rude, but I had to say something. There is no need to even post here, if you can't control or use a ladder...wtf
> 
> Maybe, I should g. f..myself lol


98% of the people who posted in the thread would never of asked the question, they would of just knocked it out and moved on. 

One thing to keep in mind is that we have all different skill levels on this forum and some of those are just starting up. Some get taken under the wing while some seem to get berated. 

Part of our desire to help out with these basic questions are to try and make sure that they do it the right way. Of course there is no way to know if they take our advice but why would they ask if they were not looking for answers. 
My point is what seems basic and like a silly question to some is not the case for all, some really need to seek out our advice.


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## salestrainer (Oct 4, 2009)

I know this was a basic question, but virtually every basic question I've asked on here I've gotten SEVERAL different answers and methods from professional painters, this question in particular has been answered with everything from duct tape to scaffolding to someone holding the ladder. SEVERAL people said they have someone hold ladder, while a couple laughed at that, so maybe I ask some questions other guys would like to ask, but are embarrassed. I would be scared of the inexperienced guys starting paint business's who are not on here asking questions, because they think this is easy and there is no need to become a student of the profession. I am gonna use all the experience you guys will let me use to become the best I can be at this. Thanks again for the help, I sincerely appreciate it!


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

1st - as I say about most independent contractors, if you ask five of them one question, you'll get at six different answers - - - with paperhangers you'll get seven . . . . . if you're lucky.

2nd - Asking even basic questions gives us all different ways to look at solutions. Although we may have been taught one way by our mentors, seeing how others have been taught or what others have found to be work for them, allows us to tweak our solutions for an even better way. This gives us more "tools" in our knowledge chest.

3rd - when I ran a crew of inexperienced summer kids, I would encourage them to THINK about better ways of doing something. Sometimes a fresh mind unencumbered with "tradition" can be see a better solution.


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

i use anti slip pads, get em in the rug section at walmart, or in a pinch just flip one of the customers rugs upside down (dont grab a nice one, grab one from the service entry/mud room, and ask if its ok)

someone here had a cool trick also>>>> instead of paying for someone just to stand on your ladder (rather odd) he filled up 2 sandbags and placed these at the base of the ladder. he wrapped them in duct tape for durability.

heres another "tool" you can make>>>>

take a pc of plywood that can fit under both feet of your ladder.

apply a layer of anti slip matt (several if you like) to the plywood. wrap it around the edges and staple.

now screw a cleat to the top of the plywood strip. your ladder feet will bear against this cleat.

keep the anti slip mat clean, when it looses some of its tackiness, simply add another layer. (dont let it get loaded up with drywall dust)

keep this in your van.


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## salestrainer (Oct 4, 2009)

Guys, I actually started this job today! After many holdups, got call a couple of weeks ago to start! I used my new rolling scaffolding, pretty sweet after you get it together. I used rubber mats under my m/t werner ladder no problem. Actually the ladder has very aggressice rubber feet on it, I felt very stable even without the mat. To be safe though, I used the mat and the pivot wedged underneath. Also used the pivot on the staircase. I am excited since I have been wanting to get this job under my belt for a while. I am not out of the woods yet, but so far so good. The biggest challende has been keeping the drops down and navigating the scaffolding around. Probably could have got by without scaffoling, but am painting the ceiling as well as some drywall re-taping. Hope all finishes well, wish me luck!


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## Woody (Jan 7, 2010)

Workaholic said:


> 98% of the people who posted in the thread would never of asked the question, they would of just knocked it out and moved on.
> 
> One thing to keep in mind is that we have all different skill levels on this forum and some of those are just starting up. Some get taken under the wing while some seem to get berated.
> 
> ...


I'll go "stand in the corner"... and "paddle myself"

You are VERY correct !!


Stay Frosty


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## salestrainer (Oct 4, 2009)

Thought I was pretty orgnized till i started working off scaffold cage! Man, you need to think about 4 steps ahead when using that thing, on lunch now, back to the job I go!


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Woody said:


> I'll go "stand in the corner"... and "paddle myself"
> 
> You are VERY correct !!
> 
> ...


That was so last month. :whistling2:


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## salestrainer (Oct 4, 2009)

Lot of ceiling rolling today......should sleep good tonight!


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

salestrainer said:


> Thought I was pretty orgnized till i started working off scaffold cage! Man, you need to think about 4 steps ahead when using that thing, on lunch now, back to the job I go!


You have time as a solo op to go home for lunch and post on pt? 

Are the HO's home? Any kids?


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> You have time as a solo op to go home for lunch and post on pt?
> 
> Are the HO's home? Any kids?


I don't take much for breaks anymore. I used to be a smoker and made frequent smoke breaks but these days a quick bite is about the extent of it.


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## salestrainer (Oct 4, 2009)

Lol, I normally eat a sandwich while working, but just a couple of minutes away from home on this job, and had 2 bulbs blow out on my lights, 1 replacement was bad, so went home to eat and get back up bulbs.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

:thumbsup:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Workaholic said:


> I don't take much for breaks anymore. I used to be a smoker and made frequent smoke breaks but these days a quick bite is about the extent of it.


Yah, I tend to work right through breaks. Loose momentum otherwise. Might eat a banana on the move if my stomach starts growling. Lunch is usually in the van on the way home. I've done a bunch of work with another Guilder, and he religiously stops and has lunch. I'm no good for another half hour while my body wants to digest.


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

ive painted hundreds of foyers, and have never set up scaffolding for one of them.

it sounds like a huge pain in the butt.

step aside.


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## Woody (Jan 7, 2010)

I'm with ya...High Fiber !!

Don't smoke..It's a waiste of time... Chew Copenhagen !!, I got 30 years in with this product..and "spit in every 5 before applying"


RA....rA


Stay Frosty


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## optimal (Feb 5, 2010)

I just used my m/t 20 on a foyer with hardwood floors. I just angle the ladder so i have very little pitch which makes for a less chance of a slip out. The rubber foot holds very well on the wood floors. You have to have confidence in the ladder and i just wrap the rubber feet in a rags and tape for wall protection.


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## salestrainer (Oct 4, 2009)

It actually ended up being a foyer AND greatroom, I'm sorry i didn't explain that better. I get not needing scaffold for walls, but had to do a bit of ceiling repair around a couple of ceiling fans, and paint entire ceiling. How would you do that without scaffolding, not to mention cutting ceiling around fans, etc?


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## Woody (Jan 7, 2010)

salestrainer said:


> It actually ended up being a foyer AND greatroom, I'm sorry i didn't explain that better. I get not needing scaffold for walls, but had to do a bit of ceiling repair around a couple of ceiling fans, and paint entire ceiling. How would you do that without scaffolding, not to mention cutting ceiling around fans, etc?


Geeez....You havn't bought your "spring shoes" yet..They work great, just jump off the fourth step, on the stairs..and grab the ceiling fan !!


RA....rA


Stay Frosty


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## salestrainer (Oct 4, 2009)

Done with this one! I am probably gonna get me a werner m/t 22, the 17 was a stretch in a couple of spots,The worst problem I had was both of my bulldog halogen lights went out, even with new bulbs they are popping on and off. What light system would you guys recommend? Also is it a good idea to live lights on job overnight, even the best walls look rough at times under hi-beams. Homeowner saw bad drywall, tape job under lights, was suprised at lack of build quality.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

These are not perfect, but they are pretty good. Its nice to hear someone who is enthusiastic about painting, and excited to be learning.


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## salestrainer (Oct 4, 2009)

Thanks for the info. Never seen those before, what are they, how many watts, who carries them?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Its a telescoping tripod, made by Husky. Fluorescent light that ( dont remember the exact specs) use something like 6 watts of energy and put out like 600 (sic). As I said, not perfect, but man I love them in the summer when were are inside because they dont heat the room up. Google for a location near you. Pricing is reasonable.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

I got it at one of those big stores that I never buy paint in but buy tools that I know wont last forever, no matter where I buy them.


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

vermontpainter said:


> These are not perfect, but they are pretty good. Its nice to hear someone who is enthusiastic about painting, and excited to be learning.


Those are OK, but don't beat a 1000 watt halogen lamp stand when you're doing detail work. 

But you're right about the heat, damn do those halogens get hot! 

Would love to see some pics of that foyer salestrainer :thumbsup:


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## salestrainer (Oct 4, 2009)

I posted some pics in an album, I had trouble placing them in this thread, my computer has been acting wacky this week, having trouble with pictures.


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

:thumbsup:

Good stuff salestrainer!!

You use the Pivot on the stairs?


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## salestrainer (Oct 4, 2009)

yep, the werner was almost too wide, think i am gonna get the m/t 22 with some kind of leveler system. The pivot is slow to set up on stairs.


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

salestrainer said:


> yep, the werner was almost too wide, think i am gonna get the m/t 22 with some kind of leveler system. The pivot is slow to set up on stairs.


Maybe, but it's safe, and that's what counts. 

I've got a great tool I use on my bigger ladders, i'll see if I can dig it out and take a pic for ya. Basically it's just an adjustable leg that you attach to your ladder - very handy on exterior work and yes, stairs. 

What's the m/t 22? Not familiar with "m/t"


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

Here ya go - I use these on my bigger ladders


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## salestrainer (Oct 4, 2009)

It is a werner m/t series, similar to thr "little giant"-LG ladder.


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## Burt White (Nov 8, 2009)

nice job sales and pics.


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

Just pulled out my 28' for a foyer job yesterday...yikes. 
I used my handy PiViT as my "spotter".
I am gonna post pics. of this job soonish, it was fun!

...*not* recommended for the newb...hire a real painter with Sherpa skills!

a.k.a "me"


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## salestrainer (Oct 4, 2009)

Must be a hell of a foyer,lol!


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