# To HVLP or Not to HVLP that is the question.



## finishesbykevyn

OK. So, I've been an airless spray guy for years. My little 395 Graco can handle pretty much anything from New construction to cabinet door re- finishing. Love it.
However, lately I've been getting a lot of different requests for services such as but not limited to..: Metal entry doors, Staircases, railings/spindles, furniture.
My thoughts are that for the finer detailed stuff, that an HVLP would be more appropriate.? Also, for smaller projects like 1 door, I could just buy a quart of paint and load up the cup as apposed to having to load 50 ft. of hose..
I have a shop to spray in, but would like to be able to do onsite spraying as well. 
Opinions on Setups. I've been scoping out the Graco Finishline turbine
portable setup. Pro's/con's? Gravity fed vs. syphon? 
Cheers.


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## RH

I thought the same as you with regards to an HVLP being easier for smaller projects and using less product. Finally pulled the trigger on a Fuji 4 stage. Overall, I have been disappointed with it for spraying water based enamels. Just doesn’t have the oomph for pushing the product finely enough. With that said, some here maintain that they have found a way to make theirs do the job through the right combination of machine, tip sizes, and product thinning. Guess I wasn’t dedicated enough to keep working at it to hit the right combination of the above - which might vary from one product to another. 

I also have a 395 and with the new fine finish tips, and going to a shorter hose, have finally come up with a process which consistently works well for me. Still a pain to clean out compared to an HVLP, but it at least doesn’t take a full gallon to fill up and spray a smaller item anymore - just a half gallon.:wink:

All was not lost however. I do use my FUJI a lot for spraying stains and clear coats. And since I do a lot of cabinet refinishing work, my HVLP has finally become a valuable part of my arsenal.

Others will surely chime in on how they have made their HVLPs work for them in spraying almost any product successfully.

If I were to do it over, I would seriously explore an air assist unit. More money for sure, but might be worth the investment.


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## finishesbykevyn

RH said:


> I thought the same as you with regards to an HVLP being easier for smaller projects and using less product. Finally pulled the trigger on a Fuji 4 stage. Overall, I have been disappointed with it for spraying water based enamels. Just doesn’t have the oomph for pushing the product finely enough. With that said, some here maintain that they have found a way to make theirs do the job through the right combination of machine, tip sizes, and product thinning. Guess I wasn’t dedicated enough to keep working at it to hit the right combination of the above - which might vary from one product to another.
> 
> I also have a 395 and with the new fine finish tips, and going to a shorter hose, have finally come up with a process which consistently works well for me. Still a pain to clean out compared to an HVLP, but it at least doesn’t take a full gallon to fill up and spray a smaller item anymore - just a half gallon.:wink:
> 
> All was not lost however. I do use my FUJI a lot for spraying stains and clear coats. And since I do a lot of cabinet refinishing work, my HVLP has finally become a valuable part of my arsenal.
> 
> Others will surely chime in on how they have made their HVLPs work for them in spraying almost any product successfully.
> 
> If I were to do it over, I would seriously explore an air assist unit. More money for sure, but might be worth the investment.


 
Thanks for the detailed response RH. So to be clear, your only using your HVLP for Non latex products? I have heard that the latex products can be an issue with HVLP.. I'm mostly wondering about spraying Advance or Grand Entrance with HVLP, And Stix Primer for cabinet doors and stair cases.. I prefer to stay away from the oil based products if I can..lain:


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## RH

finishesbykevyn said:


> Thanks for the detailed response RH. So to be clear, your only using your HVLP for Non latex products? I have heard that the latex products can be an issue with HVLP.. I'm mostly wondering about spraying Advance or Grand Entrance with HVLP, And Stix Primer for cabinet doors and stair cases.. I prefer to stay away from the oil based products if I can..lain:


I do use it for spraying oil based primers because I don’t like running them through my airless. And if they do go down a little less than perfectly, well, they will be getting sanded anyway. I will also use it for spraying oil based enamels (on the rare instances I use them anymore) since, IMO, they tend to react better to thinning without as much damage to the product’s integrity. 

Other than that, I will use my HVLP to spray oil and water based stains and clear top coats like oil or WB polyurethanes and water based conversion varnishes.


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## cocomonkeynuts

I have not tested this my self but I have played with a few cans of stix and out of the can I do not see how that product could be pushed through HVLP. All of the cans I have ever opened seem to have the consistency of a thin glue. And you are not supposed to thin stix.

BTW Advance and Grand Entrance are not Latex, they are waterborne Alkyd.


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## finishesbykevyn

cocomonkeynuts said:


> I have not tested this my self but I have played with a few cans of stix and out of the can I do not see how that product could be pushed through HVLP. All of the cans I have ever opened seem to have the consistency of a thin glue. And you are not supposed to thin stix.
> 
> BTW Advance and Grand Entrance are not Latex, they are waterborne Alkyd.


So Coco, Have you sprayed either GE or Advance with an HVLP?


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## cocomonkeynuts

finishesbykevyn said:


> So Coco, Have you sprayed either GE or Advance with an HVLP?


grand entrance is too expensive for me to just open a can to play with.

I am not a pro with a spray gun but I have used advance satin (792) to spray a few cabinets. Used a HF purple gun and a 10 gallon tank. Thinned with 5oz/gallon water. I have not tried spraying advance unthinned.

If I had any more than those few cabinets I would have just used my 395 and a FF tip with a shorter hose.


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## finishesbykevyn

cocomonkeynuts said:


> grand entrance is too expensive for me to just open a can to play with.
> 
> I am not a pro with a spray gun but I have used advance satin (792) to spray a few cabinets. Used a HF purple gun and a 10 gallon tank. Thinned with 5oz/gallon water. I have not tried spraying advance unthinned.
> 
> If I had any more than those few cabinets I would have just used my 395 and a FF tip with a shorter hose.


I've sprayed miles of Advance with my Airless sprayer with fantastic results. Grand Entrance on the other hand, I've not had a good experience with both rolling and airless spraying. It just didn't seem to atomize properly. And yes it's way over priced considering it's basically an Exterior version of Advance at 3 times the price..


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## RH

Pretty sure someone here not long ago was reporting they had great results spraying reduced Breakthrough (?) using their HVLP. Can’t remember details concerning what brand and size of sprayer, tip size, or rate of reduction. Maybe they will check in and share.


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## cocomonkeynuts

finishesbykevyn said:


> I've sprayed miles of Advance with my Airless sprayer with fantastic results. Grand Entrance on the other hand, I've not had a good experience with both rolling and airless spraying. It just didn't seem to atomize properly. And yes it's way over priced considering it's basically an Exterior version of Advance at 3 times the price..


It's closer to 2x the price (Out of my budget anyway) but I can tell you that the urethane modified resin used in Grand entrance is really expensive and not the same used in advance.

I had good results rolling advance with the wooster microfiber cover too.


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## Woodco

Am I the only one who thinks cleaning latex out of HVLP or gravity feed guns is more of a pain than cleaning an airless?


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## lilpaintchic

Woodco said:


> Am I the only one who thinks cleaning latex out of HVLP or gravity feed guns is more of a pain than cleaning an airless?


It is.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## finishesbykevyn

Woodco said:


> Am I the only one who thinks cleaning latex out of HVLP or gravity feed guns is more of a pain than cleaning an airless?


 Is anyone interested in chiming in on what the opening thread was about? LOL.
Or are we going to beat around the bush.


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## slinger58

finishesbykevyn said:


> Is anyone interested in chiming in on what the opening thread was about? LOL.
> 
> Or are we going to beat around the bush.




Well I think RH gave a pretty comprehensive response. The issue with using HVLP to spray acrylic/latex material is having to thin the product so much to get it to atomize properly. You may have to put more than 2 coats on to get enough build. 

I have sprayed Advance and Breakthrough with HVLP. It's an invaluable tool when it comes to small jobs or when painting intricate things like spindles or interior shutters with the moveable slats. 

So there's my opinion, I think you need to invest in a quality HVLP. Today. 


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## RH

Woodco said:


> Am I the only one who thinks cleaning latex out of HVLP or gravity feed guns is more of a pain than cleaning an airless?


Don’t want to take this too far off topic but in weighing the pros and cons between an HVLP, and airless, maybe different brands of HVLP guns vary in ease of cleaning but for me there is no comparison between the two types of sprayers - with my HVLP gravity feed gun being way easier to clean out IMO. A brief swab out with a brush to remove excess product, a wipe with either a wet paper towel or one with some thinner on it, then running either water or thinner through it for a minute or so, and done - maybe five minutes tops?

Perhaps I over clean my airless, but between first running it clear of the bulk of the product, running water through it to get a fairly clear stream, pulling and rinsing out the pump and gun filters as well as the tip, wiping everything down, then possibly running some thinner into it if it’s going to sit a bit, it’s more like twenty minutes - minimum. At least that’s what it is like for me - but then I do tend to be somewhat anal about my sprayers.

The relative ease of cleaning (at least for me) is one thing I really like about my HVLP.


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## finishesbykevyn

slinger58 said:


> Well I think RH gave a pretty comprehensive response. The issue with using HVLP to spray acrylic/latex material is having to thin the product so much to get it to atomize properly. You may have to put more than 2 coats on to get enough build.
> 
> I have sprayed Advance and Breakthrough with HVLP. It's an invaluable tool when it comes to small jobs or when painting intricate things like spindles or interior shutters with the moveable slats.
> 
> So there's my opinion, I think you need to invest in a quality HVLP. Today.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Haha. Well said Slinger. I do want an HVLP! I do. Just wondering whether to go With a turbine portable unit or buy a big ol compressor and have a wider variety of gun selecton like the new 3M. Apparently comes with multiple tip selections etc. 
RH was talking about the air assisted airless unit. That does look deadly. Would that spray as delicately as an HVLP I wonder? Appreciate all the feed back.


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## slinger58

I have a 4 stage turbine (capspray 9100). The big plus of a turbine unit is the portability. 

I don't have any experience with the AAA sprayers, so I can't help you there. RBriggs and RepaintFlorida have posted a good bit about the AAA units, maybe they'll check in here. In fact, just pm RBriggs. He's been slacking around here anyway. Lol


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## RH

From what I understand, the AAA units give you the best of both an HVLP and an airless and are great if you want to do lots of fine finish spraying such as for cabinet work. I cannot speak to things like the amount of product required to start spraying, clean up, or portability. I do know they can be spendy but cost is relative to how much you will use it for making you money. If I was at the beginning of my painting career instead of closing in on retiring, I would get one in a heartbeat.


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## woodcoyote

HVLP is a bit of a novelty item. Most painters don't have them and even more don't really know what they are for. A lot of them see the gun and think it's for painting cars. 

Anyway. If you plan on spraying product that is more viscous than a clear coat, skip the HVLP. If your doing primarily paints or thicker/regular latex materials than go with an airless sprayer. AAA if you want to combine the air/airless to get a finer finish. 

If you can afford to get both, get both. But remember that each one is a tool. And the tools are job specific. You wouln't tone a door with an airless and you wouldn't spray 50 doors with DTM acrylic with an hvlp. 

Base it on what *YOU *plan to do or what *YOU *do the most of. Take advise from everyone here, assess it, and ultimately make your decision based on what *YOU *plan to be doing. 

If your small and starting up and you plan to do a bunch of everything. Get a AAA unit. The bigger the better (595 AAA). Why? Because you have an airless rig so you can go around painting homes (interior/exterior), and if you get an job here and there that requires some clear coating or fine finish enamel painting you can do that as well. With the same unit. 

my $0.02 cents.


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## CApainter

I like the conventional set ups because I feel there is more control. Particularly when you consider the atomizing pressures are typically below 50 psi compared to the Air Assisted Airless which can be at 600 psi at it's lowest working pressure. Plus you have better fan control with a conventional HVLP.

Spraying waterborne materials out of a conventional HVLP requires larger fluid tips so that the material readily flows out of the gun rather than being drawn out. Having a cheater air valve helps control the air pressure at the gun.

Pressure pots have also worked well for me when using waterborne materials.


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## finishesbykevyn

CApainter said:


> I like the conventional set ups because I feel there is more control. Particularly when you consider the atomizing pressures are typically below 50 psi compared to the Air Assisted Airless which can be at 600 psi at it's lowest working pressure. Plus you have better fan control with a conventional HVLP.
> 
> Spraying waterborne materials out of a conventional HVLP requires larger fluid tips so that the material readily flows out of the gun rather than being drawn out. Having a cheater air valve helps control the air pressure at the gun.
> 
> Pressure pots have also worked well for me when using waterborne materials.


Thanks CA. Ultimately my goals are to be using products like Adavance, Grand Entrance etc. Haven't tried breakthrough or cabinet coat yet. (would like to but thats another thread) Those are more like precatalized latex epoxys. ? Either way, I want to be using water redusable products in in the shop and on renos where I may be doing stairs, spindles and and single doors like a front metal door. I know there is a market for sprayed front doors. People are Taking them to the car shops and getting $200-250 for 1 door..So being able to only use a quart would be invaluable in those situations.. Also more control for spindles and stringers and maybe wainscotting. 
For cabinet doors and anything else my airless works fine, but ya just not detailed enough for some things..


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## RH

Sounds like you are pretty sure you want to have an HVLP. If so, get one with the biggest turbine you can (five stage?), buy several tips designed to push the acrylic enamels, and have a viscosity cup for checking the flow of your thinned products. Then practice a lot while keeping track of the reduction amount for each product you use. If you find a sweet spot between tip, product, and thinning, you’ll want to be able to replicate it every time. Good luck.


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## CApainter

The biggest problem with spraying waterborne paints is too much fan air and too wide of fan. Keep that to a minimum and you will avoid flashing, and grainy finishes.


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## PNW Painter

Before you buy an HVLP, see if you can get a rep to set up a demo. I’d imagine that you’ll quickly be able to tell if it’ll work for you.

It’s unfortunate, but I’ve heard of more than a few people buying and then quickly selling HVLP’s because they couldn’t figure out how to get good results with Waterborne products.





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## RH

PNW Painter said:


> Before you buy an HVLP, see if you can get a rep to set up a demo. I’d imagine that you’ll quickly be able to tell if it’ll work for you.
> 
> It’s unfortunate, but I’ve heard of more than a few people buying and then quickly selling HVLP’s because they couldn’t figure out how to get good results with Waterborne products.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Or, along those lines, if you know of another painter in your area that has one, maybe you can work something out to allow you to give one a try. Probably a long shot but if you know the guy well enough...
Check with your suppliers - they may know who uses an HVLP from time to time around your area. 
Worth a shot.


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## dirtyjeep01

I have sprayed advance for touch ups. Capspray 115 with a #5 projector set 8oz floetrol to one gallon of advance


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## cocomonkeynuts

dirtyjeep01 said:


> I have sprayed advance for touch ups. Capspray 115 with a #5 projector set 8oz floetrol to one gallon of advance


Water is the recommended thinner for advance...


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## slinger58

Coco, I seem to recall that BM recommended not using white lacquer undercoater as a primer for Advanced. Is that true?


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## cocomonkeynuts

slinger58 said:


> Coco, I seem to recall that BM recommended not using white lacquer undercoater as a primer for Advanced. Is that true?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


BM says you can use basically anything other than lacquer undercoater under advance. Waiting to hear back from the Lenmar brand manager/chemist for specifics.

In addition the premixed advance black solves a a number of bubbling/fisheye as opposed to a large load of black colorant in a deep base causing surface tension issues.


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## RH

SW’s Pro-Industrial Multi Surface Acrylic Enamel might be another good one to try. It is already relatively thin so may not need much reduction to spray decently through an HVLP.


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## sayn3ver

Woodco said:


> Am I the only one who thinks cleaning latex out of HVLP or gravity feed guns is more of a pain than cleaning an airless?


Cleaning out my cup gun is the easiest thing to do, especially with acrylic products. Water rinse. Alcohol rinse. Done. Wipe the outside off with a micro fiber and some da.

Literally can take 5minutes. 

Alittle krud kutter or denatured/rubbing alcohol will destroy any fresh acrylic paint or primer. 

Denatured alcohol and a microfiber will clean any dryed acrylic product (water borne lacquers would be the exception for me)


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## sayn3ver

I have sprayed breakthrough 50 and cabinet coat white/pastel base through my capspray 115. 

Both are on the thinner side out of the tin but still need to be opened up. Both need extender imho. I've been using bm512 with no apparent adverse effects. 

I like cabinet coat better than breakthrough but dryspray in corners and more complicated work is still a concern if you are shooting trim in place. 

Breakthrough is great for turn around. Dries pretty quickly. Quick block resistance. Sands to powder relatively quickly. I haven't used the original 250 version for comparison. 

Both need like 3 hvlp coats to build film for me. Thinning also diminishes their hang but cabinet coat for me hangs better, flows better. 

Both seem to be tough but soft in satin sheen. Good flex and adhesion (I feel breakthrough 50 has better adhesion than cc and doesn't seem to ever pull or budge when pulling masking) but the sheen can be burnished after 30 day cure with a finger nail Ime. 

I think if you were planning to use solvent coatings or waterborne wood coatings designed for spray then the hvlp may work. 

I've been playing around with a diy aaa setup. It lays cabinet coat nice in the small project I've used it for so far. 

Honestly if I already owned a 395 like yourself, you could pickup a ca technologies aaa gun, a hopper for your 395 instead of the pickup tube, a decent portable compressor and air assist airless those finishes. Or just keep straight airless and throw a hopper and shorter hose on the 395 for smaller jobs. 

The capspray still puts out overspray but it is a dry dust with waterborne coatings so far. However I don't see a real difference in the amount of overspray dust between the hvlp and AAA.


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## Woodco

sayn3ver said:


> Cleaning out my cup gun is the easiest thing to do, especially with acrylic products. Water rinse. Alcohol rinse. Done. Wipe the outside off with a micro fiber and some da.
> 
> Literally can take 5minutes.
> 
> Alittle krud kutter or denatured/rubbing alcohol will destroy any fresh acrylic paint or primer.
> 
> Denatured alcohol and a microfiber will clean any dryed acrylic product (water borne lacquers would be the exception for me)


I get latex crap in the guts of them, and its a pita to clean. I havent tried denatured though.


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## kmp

I spray everything through mine but I always run some lacquer thinner through it at the end. When I have used it quite a bit and needs a good cleaning I take it apart and give it a lacquer thinner bath and use small round nylon brushes to clean it. I always take apart and clean the check valve after each use.


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## finishesbykevyn

sayn3ver said:


> I have sprayed breakthrough 50 and cabinet coat white/pastel base through my capspray 115.
> 
> Both are on the thinner side out of the tin but still need to be opened up. Both need extender imho. I've been using bm512 with no apparent adverse effects.
> 
> I like cabinet coat better than breakthrough but dryspray in corners and more complicated work is still a concern if you are shooting trim in place.
> 
> Breakthrough is great for turn around. Dries pretty quickly. Quick block resistance. Sands to powder relatively quickly. I haven't used the original 250 version for comparison.
> 
> Both need like 3 hvlp coats to build film for me. Thinning also diminishes their hang but cabinet coat for me hangs better, flows better.
> 
> Both seem to be tough but soft in satin sheen. Good flex and adhesion (I feel breakthrough 50 has better adhesion than cc and doesn't seem to ever pull or budge when pulling masking) but the sheen can be burnished after 30 day cure with a finger nail Ime.
> 
> I think if you were planning to use solvent coatings or waterborne wood coatings designed for spray then the hvlp may work.
> 
> I've been playing around with a diy aaa setup. It lays cabinet coat nice in the small project I've used it for so far.
> 
> Honestly if I already owned a 395 like yourself, you could pickup a ca technologies aaa gun, a hopper for your 395 instead of the pickup tube, a decent portable compressor and air assist airless those finishes. Or just keep straight airless and throw a hopper and shorter hose on the 395 for smaller jobs.
> 
> The capspray still puts out overspray but it is a dry dust with waterborne coatings so far. However I don't see a real difference in the amount of overspray dust between the hvlp and AAA.


Some great ideas here. Are you meaning install a hopper on top of my airless unit? Or just get a gravity gun? Sounds like alot of equipment switchover for a small project. So many options..sigh. LOL. Has anyone used those graco battery syphon fed guns? Those look pretty Interesting. Are those airless or hvlp I wonder. Could also be good for quick small jobs where you don't want to load up the airless..
Would the air assisted side of a AAA be more capable of handling the primers and waterborne products than a traditional hvlp? Maybe the more powerful ones..


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## CApainter

finishesbykevyn said:


> Some great ideas here. Are you meaning install a hopper on top of my airless unit? Or just get a gravity gun? Sounds like alot of equipment switchover for a small project. So many options..sigh. LOL. Has anyone used those graco battery syphon fed guns? Those look pretty Interesting. Are those airless or hvlp I wonder. Could also be good for quick small jobs where you don't want to load up the airless..
> Would the air assisted side of a AAA be more capable of handling the primers and waterborne products than a traditional hvlp? Maybe the more powerful ones..


1. The airless hopper does nothing to reduce the high pressures of an airless. It's designed for easy fill of small quantities of material.

2. The cordless Graco hand held airless is a regular piston pump airless with high pressures. Other than adding a fine finish tip, these units aren't considered HVLP.

3. In terms of handling waterborne and solvent borne materials, both HVLP conventional and airless spray systems (including AAA) will handle both. The difference is in the quantity of material one applies over the other. The airless will generally apply at a higher rate.


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## sayn3ver

Didn't mean to make it seem a hopper or the like would change what an airless is. It's still high pressure. 

But you already own a 395. A hopper instead of the hose pickup and a shorter spray hose will reduce the amount of material needed to spray. 

It will not really help much with yhe time of cleanup but should reduce the amount of paint needed to prime the sprayer and the amount of solvent needed to clean up. 


Real talk. I bought a small airless the first time I needed to do a bunch of doors and they wanted a spray finish with an acrylic enamel. 

I already owned the turbine hvlp. I didn't listen to others on here. Lots of good advice from the veterans on this site. 

You want to spray advance. Look at all the spray posts about advance. Most of the guys having luck are spraying that straight airless with a ff tip. 

Aura? It's a thick product. I'm sure guys are thinning it down and spraying with hvlp but it defeats the purpose and probably compromises the film. It dries fast on it's own. Doesn't need the help from arid turbine air. 

Breakthrough is a thinner product. Dries fast. But is a thinner product to start. Still a challenge with hvlp but being designed to be a thinner product to start helps the cause. 


You can buy the hvlp. But then find and use products suitable for that use. 

If you goal is to spray common acrylic enamels an airless or aaa I feel is the way to go in whatever encarnation. 

With a good ff tip and some light thinning those thicker coatings can be applied at lower pressures with a nice finish. 

But not every job or every customer needs,wants, or warrants a sprayed finish. 




CApainter said:


> finishesbykevyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some great ideas here. Are you meaning install a hopper on top of my airless unit? Or just get a gravity gun? Sounds like alot of equipment switchover for a small project. So many options..sigh. LOL. Has anyone used those graco battery syphon fed guns? Those look pretty Interesting. Are those airless or hvlp I wonder. Could also be good for quick small jobs where you don't want to load up the airless..
> Would the air assisted side of a AAA be more capable of handling the primers and waterborne products than a traditional hvlp? Maybe the more powerful ones..
> 
> 
> 
> 1. The airless hopper does nothing to reduce the high pressures of an airless. It's designed for easy fill of small quantities of material.
> 
> 2. The cordless Graco hand held airless is a regular piston pump airless with high pressures. Other than adding a fine finish tip, these units aren't considered HVLP.
> 
> 3. In terms of handling waterborne and solvent borne materials, both HVLP conventional and airless spray systems (including AAA) will handle both. The difference is in the quantity of material one applies over the other. The airless will generally apply at a higher rate.
Click to expand...


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## finishesbykevyn

sayn3ver said:


> Didn't mean to make it seem a hopper or the like would change what an airless is. It's still high pressure.
> 
> But you already own a 395. A hopper instead of the hose pickup and a shorter spray hose will reduce the amount of material needed to spray.
> 
> It will not really help much with yhe time of cleanup but should reduce the amount of paint needed to prime the sprayer and the amount of solvent needed to clean up.
> 
> 
> Real talk. I bought a small airless the first time I needed to do a bunch of doors and they wanted a spray finish with an acrylic enamel.
> 
> I already owned the turbine hvlp. I didn't listen to others on here. Lots of good advice from the veterans on this site.
> 
> You want to spray advance. Look at all the spray posts about advance. Most of the guys having luck are spraying that straight airless with a ff tip.
> 
> Aura? It's a thick product. I'm sure guys are thinning it down and spraying with hvlp but it defeats the purpose and probably compromises the film. It dries fast on it's own. Doesn't need the help from arid turbine air.
> 
> Breakthrough is a thinner product. Dries fast. But is a thinner product to start. Still a challenge with hvlp but being designed to be a thinner product to start helps the cause.
> 
> 
> You can buy the hvlp. But then find and use products suitable for that use.
> 
> If you goal is to spray common acrylic enamels an airless or aaa I feel is the way to go in whatever encarnation.
> 
> With a good ff tip and some light thinning those thicker coatings can be applied at lower pressures with a nice finish.
> 
> But not every job or every customer needs,wants, or warrants a sprayed finish.


I agree about spraying the advance with my airless. And correction it's a 490 not a 395 that I have. I've been spraying cabinet doors with a FF 308. Works fabulous. Not sure I'd want to spray stairs and spindles with it though. Or Wainscotting. Just too many angles. Ya know. Thoughts? Been doing alot of stairs/stringers, spindles and railings lately. 
2 tone. I normally just brush and Wizz roll everything with Advance. Turns out really nice but a heck of a job! I like the hopper/shorter hose idea. Liking the sounds of the AAA too.
Can I just install a hopper right onto my existing Graco airless?


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## RH

finishesbykevyn said:


> I agree about spraying the advance with my airless. And correction it's a 490 not a 395 that I have. I've been spraying cabinet doors with a FF 308. Works fabulous. Not sure I'd want to spray stairs and spindles with it though. Or Wainscotting. Just too many angles. Ya know. Thoughts? Been doing alot of stairs/stringers, spindles and railings lately.
> 2 tone. I normally just brush and Wizz roll everything with Advance. Turns out really nice but a heck of a job! I like the hopper/shorter hose idea. Liking the sounds of the AAA too.
> Can I just install a hopper right onto my existing Graco airless?


Yes, you can.

I also purchased a digital gauge pressure for my 395. Trying to get a consistent process every time I sprayed meant I wanted to know what my ideal spray pressure was. Been happy with the addition.

And remember, if you think using an HVLP on spindles and handrails on an existing staircase is going to eliminate overspray and having to be anal about masking, think again. Yes, the fallout will be less, but certainly not eliminated. Thorough masking will still be required.


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## cocomonkeynuts

finishesbykevyn said:


> I normally just brush and Wizz roll everything with Advance. Turns out really nice but a heck of a job! I like the hopper/shorter hose idea. Liking the sounds of the AAA too.
> Can I just install a hopper right onto my existing Graco airless?


Skip the wizz, jumbo koter microplush are the way to go


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## finishesbykevyn

RH said:


> Yes, you can.
> 
> I also purchased a digital gauge pressure for my 395. Trying to get a consistent process every time I sprayed meant I wanted to know what my ideal spray pressure was. Been happy with the additiron.
> 
> And remember, if you think using an HVLP on spindles and handrails on an existing staircase is going to eliminate overspray and having to be anal about masking, think again. Yes, the fallout will be less, but certainly not eliminated. Thorough masking will still be required.


Good idea on the digital gauge. 
I'm not so worried about the over spray. It's more all the angles and the fear of too much build up in the corners with the airless etc.. Plus my gun always spits on the start and release, but that's probably a gun problem I'm assuming? Maybe I'll soak that sucker in some lacquer thinner. Or get a new one. Recommendations? Think I'll see if I can demo a couple different models. I just feel that an air assisted unit of sorts would be more manageable in those detailed situations..
Feel like I'm beating this forum to death but you guys love it. Right?:biggrin:


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## RH

finishesbykevyn said:


> Good idea on the digital gauge.
> I'm not so worried about the over spray. It's more all the angles and the fear of too much build up in the corners with the airless etc.. Plus my gun always spits on the start and release, but that's probably a gun problem I'm assuming? Maybe I'll soak that sucker in some lacquer thinner. Or get a new one. Recommendations? Think I'll see if I can demo a couple different models. I just feel that an air assisted unit of sorts would be more manageable in those detailed situations..
> Feel like I'm beating this forum to death but you guys love it. Right?:biggrin:


Don’t worry about the forum, it’s what it is here for. If guys weren’t interested they wouldn’t respond.

I’m too lazy to go back and read over the post to see if you mentioned whether you have done any work with the newer fflp tips on your 395. Whether you have or not, I would encourage you to spend the time experimenting and practicing with one or two different ones. Personally, I’ve found that the amount of spray I can put out with my 395 using a fflp tip is equal to what I get out of my HVLP. Of course, the airless still uses more paint to get it spraying and the clean up is a bigger pain, but it gives me pretty tight control when properly equipped. Those new tips have been a game changer for me.


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## lilpaintchic

finishesbykevyn said:


> Good idea on the digital gauge.
> I'm not so worried about the over spray. It's more all the angles and the fear of too much build up in the corners with the airless etc.. Plus my gun always spits on the start and release, but that's probably a gun problem I'm assuming? Maybe I'll soak that sucker in some lacquer thinner. Or get a new one. Recommendations? Think I'll see if I can demo a couple different models. I just feel that an air assisted unit of sorts would be more manageable in those detailed situations..
> Feel like I'm beating this forum to death but you guys love it. Right?


Check your gun filter for starters....

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## finishesbykevyn

lilpaintchic said:


> Check your gun filter for starters....
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Ya I clean my filters after every use, but I may just change it as it has been a while. What mesh are you using in yours for waterborne/Latex products? I think mine is actually a pretty fine mesh. maybe that's it.. I should really be more on top of this stuff. Lol. Sigh.


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## finishesbykevyn

RH said:


> Don’t worry about the forum, it’s what it is here for. If guys weren’t interested they wouldn’t respond.
> 
> I’m too lazy to go back and read over the post to see if you mentioned whether you have done any work with the newer fflp tips on your 395. Whether you have or not, I would encourage you to spend the time experimenting and practicing with one or two different ones. Personally, I’ve found that the amount of spray I can put out with my 395 using a fflp tip is equal to what I get out of my HVLP. Of course, the airless still uses more paint to get it spraying and the clean up is a bigger pain, but it gives me pretty tight control when properly equipped. Those new tips have been a game changer for me.


Ya RH, I have been using the FF tips. My go to for cabinet doors right now is the 308. Fantastic results indeed. I haven't been using it on my stairs yet though because of the spitting.. Maybe I should get that figured out.. What's the smallest tip you've ever used on your airless with success? With latex /waterborne products. I have the Graco 490 btw... Not the 395 .. A little work horse. Have had it for almost 10 years and had to do nothing to it...Just clean it really good every use.


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## RH

finishesbykevyn said:


> Ya RH, I have been using the FF tips. My go to for cabinet doors right now is the 308. Fantastic results indeed. I haven't been using it on my stairs yet though because of the spitting.. Maybe I should get that figured out.. What's the smallest tip you've ever used on your airless with success? With latex /waterborne products. I have the Graco 490 btw... Not the 395 .. A little work horse. Have had it for almost 10 years and had to do nothing to it...Just clean it really good very use.


I pretty much stick with the 310.


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## dirtyjeep01

slinger58 said:


> Coco, I seem to recall that BM recommended not using white lacquer undercoater as a primer for Advanced. Is that true?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




I use shellac or zinser as a base coat Prime .. hard smooth as baby’s bum fills nice sands to a powder


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## gregplus

*hi*

I have Titan 115 and use PPG Breaktrough thinned with water. It works fine for cabinets. Make sure you get PPS system with it to avoid extensive gun cleaning


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## Jimithing616

I myself just bought a capspray 115.

Titan rep did a demo, I used it to spray all sorts of stuff on cabinet doors without any thinning. Not one drop. 

He suggested using a bucket of hot water, immersing your paint can in it before using through HVLP, this way the paint is warm, more viscous, and can be sprayed without thinning.

However, he didn’t do that, and it sprayed pro classic and emerald urethane along with cabinet coat with absolutely no thinning.

I was impressed. 

So I bought one.

Right now they are even giving a free second gun along with it. And it was like $1100 ... not bad.. for 6 stage turbine.

Oh, and I saw mention of the Graco HVLP... in my research, they can’t compete with the Titan. I talked to dozens of painters who’ve owned both, and all the paint reps in my area, heck, even the Graco guys admitted theirs didn’t have the same power... but, I’m no expert by any means. 

Safe bet though, especially when the Titan has another stage over the Graco top unit (6 as opposed to 5) and it was a few hundred less with the promo... made sense to me 

Any thoughts?


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## RH

I’d like to play around with a six stage and compare how it functions to my four. It would undoubtably be better, just wondering by how much.


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## thinkpainting/nick

RH said:


> I’d like to play around with a six stage and compare how it functions to my four. It would undoubtably be better, just wondering by how much.


For me not much , at least my 5 over my 3 isnt at all. As for not thinning :surprise: never ever seen that. I mean sure spray without thinning yes but the finish hmmm. 

My old Titan Pro finish 3 Turbine hangs with my Apollo 5 easily. So maybe the Titan Stage 6 is what he says.


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## thinkpainting/nick

Jimithing616 said:


> I myself just bought a capspray 115.
> 
> Titan rep did a demo, I used it to spray all sorts of stuff on cabinet doors without any thinning. Not one drop.
> 
> He suggested using a bucket of hot water, immersing your paint can in it before using through HVLP, this way the paint is warm, more viscous, and can be sprayed without thinning.
> 
> However, he didn’t do that, and it sprayed pro classic and emerald urethane along with cabinet coat with absolutely no thinning.
> 
> I was impressed.
> 
> So I bought one.
> 
> Right now they are even giving a free second gun along with it. And it was like $1100 ... not bad.. for 6 stage turbine.
> 
> Oh, and I saw mention of the Graco HVLP... in my research, they can’t compete with the Titan. I talked to dozens of painters who’ve owned both, and all the paint reps in my area, heck, even the Graco guys admitted theirs didn’t have the same power... but, I’m no expert by any means.
> 
> Safe bet though, especially when the Titan has another stage over the Graco top unit (6 as opposed to 5) and it was a few hundred less with the promo... made sense to me
> 
> Any thoughts?


https://www.jnequipment.com/shop/br...lyWvFDQ1qxJt0MwtbwQ_r5ewEGxfC0ORoC6D4QAvD_BwE

$1100 wow that’s a deal. A good deal.


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## vilmost

Jimithing616 said:


> I myself just bought a capspray 115.
> 
> Titan rep did a demo, I used it to spray all sorts of stuff on cabinet doors without any thinning. Not one drop.
> 
> He suggested using a bucket of hot water, immersing your paint can in it before using through HVLP, this way the paint is warm, more viscous, and can be sprayed without thinning.
> 
> However, he didn’t do that, and it sprayed pro classic and emerald urethane along with cabinet coat with absolutely no thinning.
> 
> I was impressed.
> 
> So I bought one.
> 
> Right now they are even giving a free second gun along with it. And it was like $1100 ... not bad.. for 6 stage turbine.
> 
> Oh, and I saw mention of the Graco HVLP... in my research, they can’t compete with the Titan. I talked to dozens of painters who’ve owned both, and all the paint reps in my area, heck, even the Graco guys admitted theirs didn’t have the same power... but, I’m no expert by any means.
> 
> Safe bet though, especially when the Titan has another stage over the Graco top unit (6 as opposed to 5) and it was a few hundred less with the promo... made sense to me
> 
> Any thoughts?


How do I get my hands on one for that price? Was it a demo unit?


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## burchptg

I have a Graco FinishPro 9.5 that I use in just the way you are thinking. In fact I just finished a door this morning using a qt of Grand Entrance gloss. It took 4 coats to get it to look right, and in the end, after discussing the issue with the owners, I sprayed a 5th coat with Aura exterior semigloss.


I did not thin the paint. I strain the paint and shoot it as is. Thinning GE makes it run and it's thin to start with so it's just not necessary. It's pretty horrible stuff. It's so glossy, you can hardly see the color for the reflection. To the touch, it's like silk, but in the end, I can't recommend it. The AE toned down the sheen and made the color look richer. It also has better leveling.


You can shoot GE through an airless, but you get only 1 shot at it. I have done that. Fill the lines with the qt and chase it with water. Doing it this way actually looks better than an HPLV, if you get it right and don't get sags and drips, but you've basically used your quart and don't get any do-overs, so the HPLV is more forgiving that way.


Since the paint comes out of the HPLV much slower, you have more control and don't overload it. So it is great for rails. It's also good for cabinets. I spray the carcass as well as the doors. The idea of rolling cabinets makes my skin crawl. Brushing is ok but if I had to look at stippled cabs, I'd be pissed. You can thin Advance but you don't have to. 



If you spray thin materials like lacquer, an HPLV is the only way.


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## burchptg

These rails were sprayed with ProClassic alkyd hybrid using an HPLV


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## painterina

Wow, the rails and door look really admirably perfect @ burchptg

I've used Grand Entrance (satin) several times and yes, it's thin and a bit difficult to work with. Aura exterior is a great product; in really dark colors (e.g. Iron Mountain..), its color retention/fade resistance may be a bit questionable, especially on the south and west side of house.


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