# Delicate Tape



## KBPaintingIowa (12 mo ago)

Hello all,

I have needed to use delicate tape due to a short window of time that I have to complete the job. 

I used delicate tape, both 3M purple and FrogTape Yellow. The surface that it was applied to was clean. I am having a terrible time getting it to stay attached, to what I am putting it on.... whether the trip, primer, paint or another piece of paper.

I am masking as it is a new construction job and I am spraying the walls and ceilings. 

(I have used green FrogTape 24 hrs after a job and it peeled the paint and texture from what I attached it to, so that's another reason I was so hesitant to used delicate tape since it was just 18 hrs before I masked off on this project)

I have pressed with hand, flexible putty knife and even baby wipes... still about 60% + of time it comes up.

Any tips to get it to work? A different tape that you like?

Thank you!!


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

What surface are you attaching to? Are there contaminants on it? or is it newly painted?


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## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

Yellow frog tape is almost all I use but you need to caulk the edge that will hold it in place. Caulk it and wipe it clean. This also helps prevent bleed around.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

KBPaintingIowa said:


> ... A different tape that you like?
> 
> Thank you!!


Dolphin Washi Tape. Amazing tape...


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## thepm4 (May 18, 2020)

An old school tip (pre yellow Frog tape and 3M 2080 when it was blue) similar to what Jacob33 posted is to tape and apply some clear with an art brush where tape meets your surface. 
You posted the use of baby wipes...is that to prep your surface for taping? With the info shared about this being a new construction project, wiping dust with a baby wipe to remove dust sounds like your creating a micro-slurry then trying to tape over it.

Bottom line for me is that it doesn't sound like a tape performance issue. Those tapes you mention are really good.


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## thepm4 (May 18, 2020)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Dolphin Washi Tape. Amazing tape...


Is that local tape? On Amazon? Love to try it


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

thepm4 said:


> Is that local tape? On Amazon? Love to try it


I believe it is available on amazon. I ordered it directly from dolphin once last year and immediately sold out. 
Washi Tape | Blue Dolphin (dolphinsundries.com)


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

I have good success with yellow frog but the trim has to be clean and dry. Even dust from overnight on the baseboard can cause problems. I set the edge with a damp rag wrapped on a putty knife.


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## CLSPAINTPLASTER (Jun 29, 2018)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> I believe it is available on amazon. I ordered it directly from dolphin once last year and immediately sold out.
> Washi Tape | Blue Dolphin (dolphinsundries.com)


You should be able to find it over at www.paintersolutions.com.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> I believe it is available on amazon. I ordered it directly from dolphin once last year and immediately sold out.
> Washi Tape | Blue Dolphin (dolphinsundries.com)


I thought you only carried American brands in your store?


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Holland said:


> I thought you only carried American brands in your store?


as much as possible; its made in japan


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

KBPaintingIowa said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I have needed to use delicate tape due to a short window of time that I have to complete the job.
> 
> ...


Depending on your sequence of painting adjacent surfaces, I will paint one surface and let it dry overnight. Then I will tape that surface, then run a thin brush-tip of the same paint as is under the tape to seal the edge. That way, any paint that bleeds under the tape is the same paint that is also under the paint. If you brush the paint on just thin enough it should be dry in 20 minutes or so. Spray, then remove tape.

futtyos


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## STAR (Nov 26, 2010)

Another vote for Washi tape👍


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## propainterJ (Jan 31, 2011)

Ive found SW paints have something in them that makes them hard to tape to while theyre fresh

Ive had Kitchen Ceilings painted in SW that I couldnt get tape to stick to a month after painting

Thinking theyre sheened paints IIRC


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

I haven't used the yellow frog tape in years, I can never get it to stick either... 3m 2090 along with the gasketing trick that others have mentioned does almost everything I need to for interior work. That dolphin tape sounds cool though, might need to try a roll.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

Well, we also need to be asking why it is that even delicate tape is pulling paint off... I swear, back in the day, we didnt use primer, just flat paint, and we could mask it the next day (sometimes sooner) with regular old masking tape, and we did not have these problems. It was only after I started using actual primer, that tape would pull it off the wall. has anyone else had the same experience? 

Anyway, what I do with any surface that has trouble keeping tape stuck to it, is use inch and a half first,and stick it down real goo, then mask as normal on top of that. Doesnt always work, but usually does.


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

Woodco said:


> Well, we also need to be asking why it is that even delicate tape is pulling paint off... I swear, back in the day, we didnt use primer, just flat paint, and we could mask it the next day (sometimes sooner) with regular old masking tape, and we did not have these problems. It was only after I started using actual primer, that tape would pull it off the wall. has anyone else had the same experience?
> 
> Anyway, what I do with any surface that has trouble keeping tape stuck to it, is use inch and a half first,and stick it down real goo, then mask as normal on top of that. Doesnt always work, but usually does.


Sometimes I'll just put some tape down to pick all the dust off, pull it up and then put a new piece down. On a related note have you ever noticed how much s*** comes up when you pull some of that clear carpet shield off somebody's carpet?


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## thepm4 (May 18, 2020)

Just a side note...Modern Masters metallic paints, have been pulling off for years when removing my tape (brush or roll apllication). Wasn't like that when first came out.

Tape is either 3M 2080 or yellow frog. Razor it or ask yourself in a Clint Eastwood voice "do you feel lucky?" lol


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Honestly. On kitchen jobs now, I would rather just repaint the walls, then try to tape it all up just to have the tape damage everything. The brush is king.


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## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Honestly. On kitchen jobs now, I would rather just repaint the walls, then try to tape it all up just to have the tape damage everything. *The brush is king*.


All this talk of tape. I'm like tape? What's tape? LOL. Ok, I do use tape sometimes...and know all of the resons why it's used, esp when spraying. Funny though, just because in my first "real" painting job I can't recall tape ever being used for anything. Two crews. About a doz painters. Mix of old and new construction / interior & exterior. All cut and roll by hand. Guess I mostly just stick to what I was taught. But I do hate taping.


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

Joe67 said:


> All this talk of tape. I'm like tape? What's tape? LOL. Ok, I do use tape sometimes...and know all of the resons why it's used, esp when spraying. Funny though, just because in my first "real" painting job I can't recall tape ever being used for anything. Two crews. About a doz painters. Mix of old and new construction / interior & exterior. All cut and roll by hand. Guess I mostly just stick to what I was taught. But I do hate taping.


I was taught by all the old school painters as well, "Real painters don't need tape." Then about 10 years ago I was at a friends new home that he had just moved in to. It was painted by another friend of mine in the business. The cut lines were perfect, and I had to admit to myself that it was time to up my game and learn to mask. I'm pretty good at it now and have learned in the process that tape will not only make the job look more professional but will actually increase production rates.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

Ive worked for some old timers that thought I was an amateur for masking certain things... They thought I was wasting time and money. Then when they saw that I was working circles around them, they changed their tunes...

My first day for this company, I apparently almost got fired when the foreman saw me making hinges on the backside of a door, that we were gonna paint three coats of oil on. "You dont know how to use a brush and cut around a hinge? I thought you were a journeyman...." I TRIED to explain that yes, I can cut around a hinge, but it saves time to tape them really quick, so you can just run your roller over it three times, AND it looks better at the same time. Not to mention, the last company I worked for, my boss told me to do it that way, so I was in the habit. They didnt trust me, for a long time, butI kept doign it my way, and they figured it out.

No offense to the old timers here, but jeez... things change. methods change, products change, and smart people realize this. Yes, certain things change for the worse, but most are better.

Like, you got this guy saying : "Two crews. About a doz painters. Mix of old and new construction / interior & exterior. All cut and roll by hand. "

Well, you get get twice as much done by taping and masking properly.... Thats just a simple fact.

It makes me wonder if old time mechanics said the same thing about younguns using their air powered tools, and hydraulic lifts.... Or old lumberjacks "These kids with their 'chainsaws'.... They just cant use a handsaw.... disgraceful...."

Granted, I have seen plenty of people that WAY overmask, so I do get it.


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## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

Woodco said:


> ...
> No offense to the old timers here, but jeez... things change. methods change, products change, and smart people realize this. Yes, certain things change for the worse, but most are better.
> ...


Yep. I'm old and dumb. Good thing there are smart people somewhere...


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## Knobbe (Mar 14, 2021)

It was mentioned in this thread about using Dolphin Washi tape so I thought I'd give it a try. Best, sharpest lines I've ever had. And it pulled off in one pull over 5 day old Advance. 
And it was a bit cheaper than Yellow Frog tape. 












I also liked the idea of wetting the edge of the frog tape so I'll give that a try since I have an abundance of it.


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## jennifertemple (Oct 30, 2011)

KBPaintingIowa said:


> (I have used green FrogTape 24 hrs after a job and it peeled the paint and texture from what I attached it to, so that's another reason I was so hesitant to used delicate tape since it was just 18 hrs before I masked off on this project)


That should not happen if the surface was properly prepped. I have put down cartons of GREEN tape for some faux finish jobs and they often run the full length of walls, multiple times. I have never had the under paint pull up but then, I did both the prime and under paint. It does not sound to me like a tape problem but rather poor prep.

For regular, straight, paints the only thing I tape are baseboards if they are not included with the job. I tend to use green tape because it always sticks. The only reason for using tape on the baseboards is to prevent paint freckles when I roll the walls, tape is never a mode of cutting. I do not spray much in house painting; I do spray furniture but rarely.

I have even used old style, beige, masking tape! I use a hair dryer to warm it as I pull it up because that stuff really does grip.


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## jennifertemple (Oct 30, 2011)

@Woodco That might be true for you. We all do what works best for us to get the best result. I do not find tape to be faster or look better. If one handles a brush well, it's only once around per coat. With tape one needs to go around with the tape, ensure it is put down properly, go around again to paint and then remove the tape, repeat for the next coat because tape needs to be removed before the paint dries completely. I'm much faster with a brush and I follow the ceiling lines more accurately. In the end, it looks like the surface was created in that color.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

You do not need to pull masking tape when paint is wet nor between coats, just to do another coat.


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## AlexWhite532 (Sep 23, 2021)

Joe67 said:


> All this talk of tape. I'm like tape? What's tape? LOL. Ok, I do use tape sometimes...and know all of the resons why it's used, esp when spraying. Funny though, just because in my first "real" painting job I can't recall tape ever being used for anything. Two crews. About a doz painters. Mix of old and new construction / interior & exterior. All cut and roll by hand. Guess I mostly just stick to what I was taught. But I do hate taping.



How would you ever get those razor sharp lines if you're always freehanding it? Regardless of how good you are, no one can paint as a straight a line as taping gives...


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## AlexWhite532 (Sep 23, 2021)

jennifertemple said:


> @Woodco That might be true for you. We all do what works best for us to get the best result. I do not find tape to be faster or look better. If one handles a brush well, it's only once around per coat. With tape one needs to go around with the tape, ensure it is put down properly, go around again to paint and then remove the tape, repeat for the next coat because tape needs to be removed before the paint dries completely. I'm much faster with a brush and I follow the ceiling lines more accurately. In the end, it looks like the surface was created in that color.



How would you ever get those razor sharp lines if you're always freehanding it? Regardless of how good you are, no one can paint as a straight a line as taping gives...


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## jennifertemple (Oct 30, 2011)

AlexWhite532 said:


> How would you ever get those razor sharp lines if you're always freehanding it? Regardless of how good you are, no one can paint as a straight a line as taping gives...


The truth is, I am never a fan of factory perfect finishes! When I paint a wall, for example, I am looking to paint ONLY the wall, I like the effect that free hand gives of the paint almost disappearing behind the ceiling. It is as though the color was organic to the wall. If you can not visualize what I mean, there is no way to describe it. I suppose, if I were not so much into historical repaints and finishes and doing new builds, maybe I would prefer those "razor sharp lines". As it stands, in the century homes I most often work in, that method of painting would look out of place. All methods and painter's decisions are situation specific! What is true for Woodco or what is true for you may, in many things, not be true for me. I also never spray cabinets, doors or trims because, again, it's an aesthetic choice based on the actual building. I don't even spray fine furniture! I prefer french polish or rubbed finishes. Nothing in this business is written in stone! 

PS: I was an artist before I became a house painter. I think I look at jobs differently.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

AlexWhite532 said:


> How would you ever get those razor sharp lines if you're always freehanding it? Regardless of how good you are, no one can paint as a straight a line as taping gives...





jennifertemple said:


> The truth is, I am never a fan of factory perfect finishes! When I paint a wall, for example, I am looking to paint ONLY the wall, I like the effect that free hand gives of the paint almost disappearing behind the ceiling. It is as though the color was organic to the wall. If you can not visualize what I mean, there is no way to describe it. I suppose, if I were not so much into historical repaints and finishes and doing new builds, maybe I would prefer those "razor sharp lines". As it stands, in the century homes I most often work in, that method of painting would look out of place. All methods and painter's decisions a situation specific! What is true for Woodco or what is true for you may, in many things, not be true for me. I also never spray cabinets, doors or trims because, again, it's an aesthetic choice based on the actual building. I don't even spray fine furniture! I prefer french polish or rubbed finishes. Nothing in this business is written in stone!
> 
> PS: I was an artist before I became a house painter. I think I look at jobs differently.


How would you handle a bull nose corner with a color transition?


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## AlexWhite532 (Sep 23, 2021)

jennifertemple said:


> The truth is, I am never a fan of factory perfect finishes! When I paint a wall, for example, I am looking to paint ONLY the wall, I like the effect that free hand gives of the paint almost disappearing behind the ceiling. It is as though the color was organic to the wall. If you can not visualize what I mean, there is no way to describe it. I suppose, if I were not so much into historical repaints and finishes and doing new builds, maybe I would prefer those "razor sharp lines". As it stands, in the century homes I most often work in, that method of painting would look out of place. All methods and painter's decisions a situation specific! What is true for Woodco or what is true for you may, in many things, not be true for me. I also never spray cabinets, doors or trims because, again, it's an aesthetic choice based on the actual building. I don't even spray fine furniture! I prefer french polish or rubbed finishes. Nothing in this business is written in stone!
> 
> PS: I was an artist before I became a house painter. I think I look at jobs differently.


I see what you're saying. I would offer a different perspective on the terminology, if I can. It's not about what's "true and false" to me or you (or anyone else), but about "preference" based in experience and expertise with room to allow for expedience, efficiency and nuance. That is a mouthful to TYPE, let alone to say...yet because of those parameters, I think it is best to not base the ideology in what is "true or false" as a blanket concept.


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## jennifertemple (Oct 30, 2011)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> How would you handle a bull nose corner with a color transition?


I say, Never say never! If I encountered one, I would, no doubt, tape the transition. As noted, I have used cartons of tape on some faux finishes! I am not, at all, against masking tapes. I do realise, from past experience, depending on what prior painters did in the way of prep, masking walls can be very high risk for pulling off the prior finish and then one has a real mess. In the right situations, I am all for masking tape. It does need to be used judiciously (IMHO).


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## jennifertemple (Oct 30, 2011)

ridesarize said:


> You do not need to pull masking tape when paint is wet nor between coats, just to do another coat.


 I never let paint dry completely before pulling the tape, there is to great a chance it will rip up some of the paint attached to it. I always pull while still tacky. True, one does not have to but I find it safer. There are other old threads on these boards that discuss that very issue, when it happened to some.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

jennifertemple said:


> I never let paint dry completely before pulling the tape, there is to great a chance it will rip up some of the paint attached to it. I always pull while still tacky. True, one does not have to but I find it safer. There are other old threads on these boards that discuss that very issue, when it happened to some.


Just let it dry and there will be no problems


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## jennifertemple (Oct 30, 2011)

ridesarize said:


> Just let it dry and there will be no problems


Nope, 45 years in, I've learned my lessons and always play it safe. That, in no way, means I expect anyone else to adopt my chosen practices. We all develop our own styles and chosen methods. After 45 years, I will stick with what I've been doing for, at least, the last 30. In any case, I'm slowing down now, semi retired and content with how most of my jobs worked out. If the "proof of the pudding is in the eating", I have not had to advertise for 43-44 years. All of my work is acquired by word of mouth and a sterling reputation. I will continue doing most things the way I have always done them. It's like moving a step ladder with a gallon of paint still sitting on it, you might get away with it for a couple of years but the one time it fails, (falls)...


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## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

AlexWhite532 said:


> How would you ever get those razor sharp lines if you're always freehanding it? Regardless of how good you are, no one can paint as a straight a line as taping gives...


IDK. My lines are not so bad. Never perfect but I'm also cut from a similar cloth as @jennifertemple. I aesthetically prefer things to be more "organic." While I sometimes spray doors and trim, depending on the situation, I actually prefer the brushed out look. It just holds more humanity in it then a spray finish. I want the "feel" of the end result to to be human rather than robotic. I was never an artist, but every high quality paintbrush can be made to operate as a highly precise, fine artist's brush with the particular touch and technique. Of course, I doubt I'm telling anyone anything they don't know. Even people who _mostly_ tape, probably don't tape everything. I've never gotten any complaints, and the normal response is quite the opposite. I always leave people very satisfied.

And I don't actually think I will save time with tape - except in certain situations. But that's one thing just about what I've been doing lately that's probably very different from, e.g. @Woodco, which is basically just doing jobs for a single GC friend of mine. I work alone so most of the jobs are usually relatively small - kitchen/bath/bed remodels, for example (normally w/ new cabs so I don't mess with them much). Window/door replacements. The occasional deck. And stuff. After I started doing some of his jobs, his requests just for painting jobs reportedly surged too.

I wasn't picking on tape use up above. We all care about similar things - efficiency, quality, customer satisfaction, self-satisfaction. And we all sort out our ways of going about it that we think are best. And if we're all here, then we're still in business, so none of us can be failing all that dismally at it (?)


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

Woodco said:


> Ive worked for some old timers that thought I was an amateur for masking certain things... They thought I was wasting time and money. Then when they saw that I was working circles around them, they changed their tunes...
> 
> My first day for this company, I apparently almost got fired when the foreman saw me making hinges on the backside of a door, that we were gonna paint three coats of oil on. "You dont know how to use a brush and cut around a hinge? I thought you were a journeyman...." I TRIED to explain that yes, I can cut around a hinge, but it saves time to tape them really quick, so you can just run your roller over it three times, AND it looks better at the same time. Not to mention, the last company I worked for, my boss told me to do it that way, so I was in the habit. They didnt trust me, for a long time, butI kept doign it my way, and they figured it out.
> 
> ...


I can divide my painting career into three distinct stages:

At first:
I thought I needed to put tape on everything.

After a few years of getting good with the brush:
I didn't think I needed to use tape on anything.

Now:
There are times when tape is a good idea, and there are times when tape is not necessary.


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

jennifertemple said:


> The truth is, I am never a fan of factory perfect finishes! When I paint a wall, for example, I am looking to paint ONLY the wall, I like the effect that free hand gives of the paint almost disappearing behind the ceiling. It is as though the color was organic to the wall. If you can not visualize what I mean, there is no way to describe it. I suppose, if I were not so much into historical repaints and finishes and doing new builds, maybe I would prefer those "razor sharp lines". As it stands, in the century homes I most often work in, that method of painting would look out of place. All methods and painter's decisions are situation specific! What is true for Woodco or what is true for you may, in many things, not be true for me. I also never spray cabinets, doors or trims because, again, it's an aesthetic choice based on the actual building. I don't even spray fine furniture! I prefer french polish or rubbed finishes. Nothing in this business is written in stone!
> 
> PS: I was an artist before I became a house painter. I think I look at jobs differently.


Like you I prefer to hand cut the walls to the ceiling. For baseboard or any vertical trim though we always tape. You're absolutely right too, that part of it is what building you're working in. When I used to do a lot of government and commercial work, some of those foremen wouldn't allow vertically hand- cut color changes between walls or walls and trim. Now on an old historical home, I think taped lines look a little out of place.


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## Knobbe (Mar 14, 2021)

fromthenorthwest said:


> I can divide my painting career into three distinct stages:
> 
> At first:
> I thought I needed to put tape on everything.
> ...


I agree! For me there are times tape is a good idea and times its a waste or not appropriate. I can cut a wall into a ceiling pretty darn straight but to cut a ceiling into a wall would look like a child did it!


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## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

Knobbe said:


> I agree! For me there are times tape is a good idea and times its a waste or not appropriate. I can cut a wall into a ceiling pretty darn straight but to *cut a ceiling into a wall* would look like a child did it!


That does totally suck. I can pull it off if needed, but the abuse that the upper spine/neck muscles take is rather horrific. (Too much head cocked back action). Obviously I avoid it at all costs but sometimes you just gotta do it. In that case, I'd be prone to tape and, if I had wall paint available, a very thin coat of wall paint goes over the edge of the tape to make sure it's sealed down against bleed. After dry, then you can just go fast and hog wild cutting it out.


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## Knobbe (Mar 14, 2021)

Joe67 said:


> That does totally suck. I can pull it off if needed, but the abuse that the upper spine/neck muscles take is rather horrific. (Too much head cocked back action). Obviously I avoid it at all costs but sometimes you just gotta do it. In that case, I'd be prone to tape and, if I had wall paint available, a very thin coat of wall paint goes over the edge of the tape to make sure it's sealed down against bleed. After dry, then you can just go fast and hog wild cutting it out.


Next time I'm going to try the suggestion to wet the tape edge with a damp rag. Should accomplish the same thing as the paint I suspect.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Knobbe said:


> Next time I'm going to try the suggestion to wet the tape edge with a damp rag. Should accomplish the same thing as the paint I suspect.


It woks better if you brush a thin coat of water instead of a rag


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

I need to make it clear, that my comment was NOT referring to using tape to get a straight line. It was about making the job move faster, like taping a door hinge so you can simply roll three coats on rather than spending time cutting them in three times. 

Im in agreement that a natural brushed line looks better than a sharp tape edge, but at the same time, a perfectly straight line on highly contrasting colors looks better than that, so with me, some things I do, some I dont, but I usually tape and caulk where I deem that necessary, like where walls meet windows, and prefinished cabinets get taped and caulked, which is also faster, as you do two things at once...


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