# To caulk or not to caulk, that's the question.



## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

After reading a recent thread I noticed some of you might be caulking wood to wall when the wood is natural/stain-grade. Now, I am not the caulk police, but the only time I'd ever consider filling a gap from a wall or ceiling to stain-grade trim is if there were massive gaps and the customer has made a special request. Other than that, I've always believed that the gap should be minimized by the carpenter, not filled by the painter. I'm not saying my way is right and others are wrong, I'm just curious as to how others do it.

That said, how many of you are caulking walls & ceilings to stain-grade trim? Do you caulk it or don't cha? That's the question.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> After reading a recent thread I noticed some of you might be caulking wood to wall when the wood is natural/stain-grade. Now, I am not the caulk police, but the only time I'd ever consider filling a gap from a wall or ceiling to stain-grade trim is if there were massive gaps and the customer has made a special request. Other than that, I've always believed that the gap should be minimized by the carpenter, not filled by the painter. I'm not saying my way is right and others are wrong, I'm just curious as to how others do it.
> 
> That said, how many of you are caulking walls & ceilings to stain-grade trim? Do you caulk it or don't cha? That's the question.


Great minds think alike, we take the same approach.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

I always thought caulking stained trim was a no-no outside of special circumstances like very old stained trim with paint all over it already or something like that. 

I was a little mortified when I went to instal with the cabinet makers I worked with for a time and they used brown caulk to "cheat" on some of they're crown molding instillations. 

Since then I've realized it's not as unheard of as I thought. Apparently it's fairly common.

As far doing it purposely on NC work, never heard of that. I guess if that's what the customer wants, fine.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Being a paperhanger, I like to see all gaps filled between wall and trim. Trimming fat and shoving the paper up under trim is a PITA, and if it's trimmed even, the wall will show if you look at it from the correct (as in worst) angle. 

Sure it be nice if the trim installer got all the trim tight to the walls, but then that means the wall guys gotta make the walls FLAT, and you know how easy it is to train 'em to do that - hell, house breaking an 8 week old puppy is easier. 

But that's just from the eyes of a retired paper hacker


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## Anchors Aweigh Paint (Apr 16, 2015)

NEIN! The closest I've ever gotten to that was using a caulk that was tinted brown and it matched the stained wood. It was a taper hack-job that caused the gap between the wall and the crown. Other than that, I just usually mud the area to eliminate the gap and trick the eye. Does that make sense?


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> After reading a recent thread I noticed some of you might be caulking wood to wall when the wood is natural/stain-grade. Now, I am not the caulk police, but the only time I'd ever consider filling a gap from a wall or ceiling to stain-grade trim is if there were massive gaps and the customer has made a special request. Other than that, I've always believed that the gap should be minimized by the carpenter, not filled by the painter. I'm not saying my way is right and others are wrong, I'm just curious as to how others do it. That said, how many of you are caulking walls & ceilings to stain-grade trim? Do you caulk it or don't cha? That's the question.


 We've done some repaints that have been perviously hacked where the wall meets the base/case. On a given stretch, there might be a small gap for a foot or two, then tight for a bit, then paint on the wood for a piece. To remedy that, we tape a tiny bit on the wood, then caulk and paint. It straightens out the line, and eliminates the gaps and hacks on the wood. Normally though if it hasn't been perviously hacked, then no caulk.


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> We've done some repaints that have been perviously hacked where the wall meets the base/case. On a given stretch, there might be a small gap for a foot or two, then tight for a bit, then paint on the wood for a piece. To remedy that, we tape a tiny bit on the wood, then caulk and paint. It straightens out the line, and eliminates the gaps and hacks on the wood. Normally though if it hasn't been perviously hacked, then no caulk.


I do the same. I rather enjoy straightening out the mess that previous painters have made. Usually I do not caulk above or next to stained woodwork. In such cases, when debating the question of whether to caulk or not to caulk, I think that caulking is such sweet sorrow. :whistling2:


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## wje (Apr 11, 2009)

I did a massive cottage last fall, all new construction. Not a painted surface in the cottage all stain. They wanted it caulked, I told them there is no way in hell in caulking a single thing in there. 

They followed me and caulked Avery mitre, seam, nail hole, and gap they could find. 

I couldn't believe how much caulking they did on a stained trim package.


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

I have seen several stained packages caulked. I had an employee show me how they did it when he worked out west. 

I must say...it looked awesome. 

He taped the base leaving a 1/16" reveal. He then caulked over the tape, painted the walls and removed the tape. Really looked good. I couldn't believe until I saw it.


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## kmp (Jan 30, 2011)

Caulk them all the time,laser sharp lines. Tape,caulk,wait a few minutes, paint, pull tape,perfect lines. I never used to but where I live now it's the standard.If you don't you will be coming back to do it later. I prefer it even though it takes more time.


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

kmp said:


> Caulk them all the time,laser sharp lines. Tape,caulk,wait a few minutes, paint, pull tape,perfect lines. I never used to but where I live now it's the standard.If you don't you will be coming back to do it later. I prefer it even though it takes more time.


Do you call it "back-caulking"?


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

epretot said:


> I have seen several stained packages caulked. I had an employee show me how they did it when he worked out west.
> 
> I must say...it looked awesome.
> 
> He taped the base leaving a 1/16" reveal. He then caulked over the tape, painted the walls and removed the tape. Really looked good. I couldn't believe until I saw it.


This is the way both grandfather and father did it from the late add sixties forward. We still do it this way, with a clean crisp line every time.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

Wow. Many more do it than I woulda guessed.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Nope - not here.


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## DONZI (Dec 23, 2013)

we sometimes just use a clear caulk and then paint as usual against the stained wood.


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## riskend (Jan 25, 2015)

Too much, I thought this thread was finite,
No. 
Sloppy carpentry leaves us with a dilemma.
I will gap interiors for presentation purposes.
Exteriors for obvious weathertightness issues. using backing rods for serious voids & modified silicone with 24 hr cure before overcoating.
Downunder we have serious Leaky Building Syndrome because the building fabric cannot respire in response to the environment and cladding of any sort should be fitted so that this occurs.
I look forward to more instalments in this discussion.
Thanks


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

So, is this an east-coast v/s west-coast kinda thing? 

You guys that have always caulked, are we talking smooth walls or textured? 

No that I think about it, seems like Woodcoyote caulks his stain work out west where he's at. Could be wrong. 

I can see it being more of a thing with textured walls. I guess the theory I'm used to is that there shouldn't be any cracks to caulk in new stained trim. And the lines are always straight because of the "perfect" natural break between trim and wall. Reality falls short of that of course, but that's the goal. 

RH and Gough are both out west where texture is common so that can't be the whole answer. Must be regional to some extent though.


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## kmp (Jan 30, 2011)

I live in western Colo. and it's common, when I lived on the front range 22 years ago it was not. In southern Az where I lived stain packs were not common. I lived there 14 years and only did a hand full. Might have changed in the last 8 years. Every I have lived texture walls are standard. Times change.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Most of the time out here, homes with stained trim have never had caulk applied and I'm not going to be the one to suggest to the HO that it now be done. This is especially so since most of the time it looks fine without it. 

It's largely a matter of perspective IMO - the small dark line an even gap creates just isn't that noticable or objectionable against natural wood trim, which also tends to be darker. But take that same even gap and have it up against white painted trim and it's another story.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

RH said:


> Most of the time out here, homes with stained trim have never had caulk applied and I'm not going to be the one to suggest to the HO that it now be done. This is especially so since most of the time it looks fine without it.
> 
> It's largely a matter of perspective IMO - the small dark line an even gap creates just isn't that noticable or objectionable against natural wood trim, which also tends to be darker. But take that same even gap and have it up against white painted trim and it's another story.



Bingo.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

I'd really like to see a video of someone doing the caulk thing. I'm a very visual person so it'd help to see it.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

Woodford said:


> I'd really like to see a video of someone doing the caulk thing. I'm a very visual person so it'd help to see it.



I know what you mean, but in this case, it's just the ol tape-caulk trick:

1. Tape trim, usually leaving the slightest bit of trim still showing, so the caulk will have something to hold on to. 

2. Caulk gap between wall and trim, (usually a clear caulk, and just enough to run an even thin line, cuz if you use a white or other colored caulk there's a chance it bleeds on to the trim). 

3. Paint wall after a few minutes of letting caulk set up, but don't press too hard or take too many swipes, or you'll push the caulk right out of the gap. 

4. Unmask tape before paint dries, (or you run the risk of having the the wall paint fuse with the tape, which would skin and pull the wall paint right off the wall).

Although I don't do a gob of caulking to stain-grade, me and the tape-caulk trick are old chums.


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> I know what you mean, but in this case, it's just the ol tape-caulk trick:
> 
> 1. Tape trim, usually leaving the slightest bit of trim still showing, so the caulk will have something to hold on to.
> 
> ...


I have seen the tape left for days. It's really how you caulk it. The caulk has to be thick enough where it meets the tape to seal out the paint, yet thin enough for the tape to cut it cleanly if dry.


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## allaboutfun (Apr 2, 2015)

It helps to use the non siliconized - less expensive caulk. It doesn't have the elasticity that the siliconized caulk does thus breaking free leaving a clean line.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

I have also had success using wood colored caulk and caulking either before or after tape.


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## Brian C (Oct 8, 2011)

I caulk everything. interior and exterior. I hate the look of gaps everywhere.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> I know what you mean, but in this case, it's just the ol tape-caulk trick:
> 
> 1. Tape trim, usually leaving the slightest bit of trim still showing, so the caulk will have something to hold on to.
> 
> ...


I should clarify- I get how it's done (in theory at least, I've never done it this way), I'd just like to know what it looks like when it's finished more than anything. I suppose a pic of the finished product would work, too, I just like videos


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

epretot said:


> I have seen the tape left for days. It's really how you caulk it. The caulk has to be thick enough where it meets the tape to seal out the paint, yet thin enough for the tape to cut it cleanly if dry.



I guess kinda the same concept as any unmasking, as long as the opposing surfaces have dried enough to separate, you wouldn't have an issue, provided a thin bead of caulk was used. 

I'm gonna do a few trials with different caulks & times. Never tried letting it sit for days before. Thanks for the info.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Another thing you can if the tape needs to be left for multiple coats is score the line with a razor before pulling the tape. Depending on how big the gap is, that can be tricky. Definitely can get some sharp lines that way though.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Jmayspaint said:


> Another thing you can if the tape needs to be left for multiple coats is score the line with a razor before pulling the tape. Depending on how big the gap is, that can be tricky. Definitely can get some sharp lines that way though.


Was gonna recommend the same thing, I really don't like letting paint dry out on tape. Too many botched jobs if you're not careful, I always tell my customers not to- though, to be fair, they're generally much less skilled than you lot


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

Jmayspaint said:


> Another thing you can if the tape needs to be left for multiple coats is score the line with a razor before pulling the tape. Depending on how big the gap is, that can be tricky. Definitely can get some sharp lines that way though.


I used to do this quite a bit. I found that care needs to be given in regards to the pressure you put on the knife, but the technique absolutely works great.


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## MSJ Painting (Jan 27, 2013)

epretot said:


> I have seen several stained packages caulked. I had an employee show me how they did it when he worked out west.
> 
> I must say...it looked awesome.
> 
> He taped the base leaving a 1/16" reveal. He then caulked over the tape, painted the walls and removed the tape. Really looked good. I couldn't believe until I saw it.


That's how we do it


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## MSJ Painting (Jan 27, 2013)

epretot said:


> I have seen the tape left for days. It's really how you caulk it. The caulk has to be thick enough where it meets the tape to seal out the paint, yet thin enough for the tape to cut it cleanly if dry.


We never pull until dry. Caulk is applied really tight to the tape. If still in the drying process, the chances of tape pulling paint film increases imo


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

How the tape comes off has a lot to do with the material your using too. Using an acrylic with a sheen, better pull it wet or score the line. Flat paint, or alkyds it doesn't matter as much. 

We use Aura matte and Advance a lot. With both of those the dried film will break cleanly. It actually breaks cleaner the longer you wait. Eggshell or satin wall paint, or acrylic trim paint it won't and you risk pulling paint off the wall/trim.


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## MSJ Painting (Jan 27, 2013)

Jmayspaint said:


> How the tape comes off has a lot to do with the material your using too. Using an acrylic with a sheen, better pull it wet or score the line. Flat paint, or alkyds it doesn't matter as much.
> 
> We use Aura matte and Advance a lot. With both of those the dried film will break cleanly. It actually breaks cleaner the longer you wait. Eggshell or satin wall paint, or acrylic trim paint it won't and you risk pulling paint off the wall/trim.


I disagree. ..humbly...if you let the paint film dry, and have pulled the caulk tight enough, it will come off clean as a whistle. Its all about pulling the caulk really tight on the tape


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

MSJ Painting said:


> I disagree. ..humbly...if you let the paint film dry, and have pulled the caulk tight enough, it will come off clean as a whistle. Its all about pulling the caulk really tight on the tape



Interesting. I usually have problems with acrylic enamels not breaking evenly. I wonder if it has something to do with the thin film of caulk right at the edge of tape. Maybe that helps the paint film break more evenly. 

I have tried what your talking about with wiping the caulk down really thin at the edge. It works great, but there seems to be a thin margin for error. Leave the caulk a little too thick, and it leaves a ragged edge. 

Another factor I think is how much paint you actually get on the tape. I've been trying to use tape to facilitate not having to use a brush at all. I'll take a mini roller and use it to cut in. 









This puts a lot of paint on the tape and leaves a thick film at the transition. With the Aura matte, I haven't had any problems with the film breaking cleanly even when it's that thick. 

I've been having fun with tape lately trying new things. I'm liking how it's working for the most part, but there are a lot of nuances to it, like anything else I guess. In that room in the picture the paint on the crown molding had a weak bond and the green Frog Tape pulled some of it off. So the time I gained by not having to cut in twice was lost by having to paint the crown.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Jmays have you tried using something like the FrogTape Delicate on stuff like the crown molding there? In my experience it really is much more gentle and less likely to pull stuff off.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

Woodford said:


> Jmays have you tried using something like the FrogTape Delicate on stuff like the crown molding there? In my experience it really is much more gentle and less likely to pull stuff off.



The delicate frog tape has it's uses, (like having to mask freshly painted surfaces, or maybe even wallpaper), but from my experience, its very strength can be its biggest weakness, since it lacks the adhesion power to properly seal some areas, especially when fighting gravity.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> The delicate frog tape has it's uses, (like having to mask freshly painted surfaces, or maybe even wallpaper), but from my experience, its very strength can be its biggest weakness, since it lacks the adhesion power to properly seal some areas, especially when fighting gravity.


Aye, there's a tradeoff there indubitably.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Woodford said:


> Jmays have you tried using something like the FrogTape Delicate on stuff like the crown molding there? In my experience it really is much more gentle and less likely to pull stuff off.



Yes, I use the yellow Frog a lot. This was the first time I had tried the green. Painted trim technically shouldn't be considered a delicate surface, and it did fine everywhere else. Looked like that crown was sprayed over with no prep and the top coat just wasn't bonded. 

The Yellow Frog has always done well except for a floor I papered recently. It was an older floor and I was concerned about it so instead of using the 3M delicate like I usually do on floors, I used the Frog on part of it thinking it would be less risky. I was wrong. Everywhere I used the 3M was fine, but the Frog wanted to pull the finish. I ended up getting most of it with no damage by using a heat gun, but it pulled the finish in a few places.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

As far as I know, 3M uses a different mechanic to seal their edges than Frog tapes do; Frog uses a chemical that reacts to moisture to seal the edges, afaik the 3M mostly relies on adhesive (could be wrong, just haven't seen any marketing from 3M saying otherwise). What I definitely have noticed is that each is better than the other for some scenarios, though I am a bit surprised you had more problems with yellow Frog than 3M delicate. I would have thought the other way around. The more you know!

I've started just recommending people do a tape test with whatever tape they're going to be using in an inconspicuous spot before they start the job. Too many horror stories; always better to know up front if the painter before you cocked something up and the paint's gonna delaminate as soon as you tape it (or worse, as soon as you're done painting over it).


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## Krittterkare (Jul 12, 2013)

Woodford said:


> I should clarify- I get how it's done (in theory at least, I've never done it this way), I'd just like to know what it looks like when it's finished more than anything. I suppose a pic of the finished product would work, too, I just like videos


I am doing a stain and lacquer job now and could do a quick video Monday or Tuesday when I mask off the trim to spray and back roll the walls.

I likely have some previous pics I could dig up as well.


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## Brian C (Oct 8, 2011)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> After reading a recent thread I noticed some of you might be caulking wood to wall when the wood is natural/stain-grade. Now, I am not the caulk police, but the only time I'd ever consider filling a gap from a wall or ceiling to stain-grade trim is if there were massive gaps and the customer has made a special request. Other than that, I've always believed that the gap should be minimized by the carpenter, not filled by the painter. I'm not saying my way is right and others are wrong, I'm just curious as to how others do it.
> 
> That said, how many of you are caulking walls & ceilings to stain-grade trim? Do you caulk it or don't cha? That's the question.


Hey Troy, you have ripped off my thread and copied my topic subject "to caulk or not to caulk, that is the question "


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

Brian C said:


> Hey Troy, you have ripped off my thread and copied my topic subject "to caulk or not to caulk, that is the question "



If I did Brian, it was not on purpose. As soon as I read through an entire thread about caulking to stain grade trim, I posted it. If you'd like, we can ask the mods to give you 100% credit for the thread, or I can change the title.


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## Brian C (Oct 8, 2011)

all good brother.


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