# Thickness - Spray vs Brush



## HQP2005 (Feb 14, 2012)

Just looked at a good size exterior repaint and considering subbing out the spraying to someone i Know who uses a Graco ultra 490.

Wood siding, well maintianed, very little peeling, and will be going over white satin with SW white satin Super Paint. HO says house was painted 7 yrs ago and wants a price for both one coat and two. My guess is He going for one.

Assuming the guy spraying knows what he's doing, does anyone have an opinion on thickness of coat when sprayed compared to brushing. I have heard alot of opposing ideas on this, and my guess is its more to do with the quality of paint/sparyer and the guy holding the gun. 

Opinion/Experience?


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## RaleighPainter (Jun 13, 2011)

Depends what your doing with the sprayer, merely using it as a vehicle to get paint on the wall then back brushing will be closer to a standard brushed finish.. Spraying only will be a thicker application generally speaking.. is this trim only?


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Always refer to the mfg for mil specs. It won't be warranted unless it is applied correctly.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Tell him your warranty as well as the paint manufacturers only applies to two coats and make sure your subs insurance covers exterior spray drift. I would also throw some on top to cover the inevitable unforeseens since you don't seem to have lots of experience with this.

As to the original question it's all about the guy spraying but even the best will have some variation in coverage on a full exterior. People just tend to get lazy about moving ladders and try to "mist" it from a distance. IMHO you just can't put one coat on thick enough to achieve the proper millage without sagging.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

HQP2005 said:


> Assuming the guy spraying knows what he's doing, does anyone have an opinion on thickness of coat when sprayed compared to brushing. I have heard alot of opposing ideas on this, and my guess is its more to do with the quality of paint/sparyer and the guy holding the gun. Opinion/Experience?


My experience is that spraying can build a thicker and more uniform coat then brushing. The benefit I believe with brush or roller application, is that the paint is physically pushed into the substrate rather then relying just on porosity of the surface and absorbtion of the paint when spraying.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

CApainter said:


> My experience is that spraying can build a thicker and more uniform coat then brushing. The benefit I believe with brush or roller application, is that the paint is physically pushed into the substrate rather then relying just on porosity of the surface and absorbtion of the paint when spraying.


I generally always backbrush. Not for proper mill thickness, because I usually always do two coats on exteriors, but for this reason above. Wood siding, unless it's very smooth, is generally porous. 

On repaints where there is peeling and differences in surface levels, coupled with the natural porosity, backbrushing will get the paint to coat more uniformly and in my opinion will look a lot better. 

Spraying only on surfaces like this will just lay on the surface and not seal the substrate good and in my opinion can lead to premature failure.


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## HQP2005 (Feb 14, 2012)

Gibberish45 said:


> Tell him your warranty as well as the paint manufacturers only applies to two coats and make sure your subs insurance covers exterior spray drift. I would also throw some on top to cover the inevitable unforeseens since you don't seem to have lots of experience with this.


 
You are correct, I dont have very much experience with a sprayer and am still in the "use only when feel safe" phase of that. Which is why i wanna bring someone in who knows what thier doing. The house is too big for 2 guys to brush alone, and dont want to start hiring people Im not %100 sure about for a project this size. Too many problems could arise.

Because of the size or the house (im assuming), HO has kept body and trim same satin white, (which makes it perfect for spraying), And claims he's had 1 coat every 7 years since he's lived there (how long i dont kwow)

Anyway, I wanted to present the spraying option as a third alternative, and wanted to know if that fell between 1 and 2 coats brushed as far as durablility. 

And if I can throw this into the mix and get some feedback. The guy I have in only backbrushes when conditions require it. He believes its outdated due to advances in the binding properties of new paint. As I said the condition of the siding is in pretty good shape. Any thought

It would be easy for me to walk away from this one, but thought it would lead to some good referals, but if its not a quality product theres no purpose


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## HQP2005 (Feb 14, 2012)

Just tried to upload some pics, but think their to big. give me some time to figure it out.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

How experienced is this guy you want to have spray? Is his experience as an employee or has he painted exteriors for himself before? It may be best to have him work with you on the estimate and pay him more as a partner. It's pretty hard to guess how long something will take if you've never done it, though not impossible, that's where your buffer will come in. I'm thinking 30%


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Prep, spray walk away. Devils in the first part.


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## HQP2005 (Feb 14, 2012)

TJ Paint said:


> I generally always backbrush. Not for proper mill thickness, because I usually always do two coats on exteriors, but for this reason above. Wood siding, unless it's very smooth, is generally porous.
> 
> On repaints where there is peeling and differences in surface levels, coupled with the natural porosity, backbrushing will get the paint to coat more uniformly and in my opinion will look a lot better.
> 
> Spraying only on surfaces like this will just lay on the surface and not seal the substrate good and in my opinion can lead to premature failure.





Gibberish45 said:


> How experienced is this guy you want to have spray? Is his experience as an employee or has he painted exteriors for himself before? It may be best to have him work with you on the estimate and pay him more as a partner. It's pretty hard to guess how long something will take if you've never done it, though not impossible, that's where your buffer will come in. I'm thinking 30%


 
Thanks for the feedback.

Ive known him for awhile, but he's only been doing his own thing for 3 years. I actually worked with him on a couple of his projects (sprayed ext.), which came out great, but after spending some time on this site, the idea of not backbrushing concerns me. Not only for failure reasons (although this is the biggest), but I want to be able to offer some degree of warranty, and in my limited experience, touching up becomes an issue. 

This will be a joint venture, but under my name. And its too big a job to mess up this soon into the game. So i Just may insist on the backbrushing or walk away.


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## premierpainter (Apr 17, 2007)

Max mils when using a brush is 3 mils wet.
Sprayer will apply 10 times that depending on the coating applied


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

HQP2005 said:


> Just tried to upload some pics, but think their to big. give me some time to figure it out.


open the pics in a editor program an resize to around 800 or 900. 

Or add them to a picture site and post the link.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

What he said, I use imgur.com Just post the link they provide


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

You should go work for a painting company and learn the trade.


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## HQP2005 (Feb 14, 2012)

NEPS.US said:


> You should go work for a painting company and learn the trade.


Ouch!  That hurt Neps!


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

NEPS is such a d!ck. ROFLMAO


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

HQP2005 said:


> Ouch!  That hurt Neps!


He does have a point. There is no replacement for experience. :thumbsup:


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## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

I would agree with neps and say go work for someone and learn how to do it before trying to take it on. BUT

I never spray exteriors, i spray and backbrush. Works the paint in better..can usually get decent coverage on one coat as well. Make sure you mask all the windows, cover all the plants/trees that may get hit with overspray. its there even if you dont see it right away.


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## HQP2005 (Feb 14, 2012)

The reality is this may be out of my league right now in terms of size.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

NEPS.US said:


> You should go work for a painting company and learn the trade.


Maybe, but he is a professional painter and clearly has the desire to do this correctly or not at all. Do you go learn as an employee every time your company offers a new service?

HQP give the guy your price for backbrushing and spraying alone and tell him only the more expensive option has a warranty. You can do a house that size, it's in good shape same color, easy as cake my man. This will be a great learning experience for you. Of course, you have to be the judge of your own skill but you apply the paint the same way outside as you do inside.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

No offense but I will bet my PT membership that you will be the lowest bidder by $4000.00.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Gibberish45 said:


> Maybe, but he is a professional painter and clearly has the desire to do this correctly or not at all. Do you go learn as an employee every time your company offers a new service?


Painting clapboards on a Colonial HOME was never a new service. 

Are you kidding me?


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## HQP2005 (Feb 14, 2012)

NEPS.US said:


> No offense but I will bet my PT membership that you will be the lowest bidder by $4000.00.


 
I bet my membership I'll be off by more than that! :blink:


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

NEPS.US said:


> Painting clapboards on a Colonial HOME was never a new service.
> 
> Are you kidding me?


No my point is that you have learned on the clients dime at some point as we all have.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Gibberish45 said:


> No my point is that you have learned on the clients dime at some point as we all have.


My point is that basics should be learned under the watch of a employer. If you want to go into business painting exterior homes you best have training in doing so, not learning under the HO's dime. This is painting 101. 

Ever hear the term "station wagon painter"?


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

HQP2005 said:


> The reality is this may be out of my league right now in terms of size.


Wow, look at all that overspray on the shingles in the second pic.

No need to mask, somebody already messed it up and that makes it easier for you.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

TJ Paint said:


> Wow, look at all that overspray on the shingles in the second pic.
> 
> No need to mask, somebody already messed it up and that makes it easier for you.


 
That's the wear on the cedar shingle roof, not overspray.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

I thought it was snow. Stupid smart phone screen


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

NEPS.US said:


> That's the wear on the cedar shingle roof, not overspray.


my bad, didn't even notice it was cedar.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Now imagine this guy that doesnt work on houses like this climbing up on that cedar roof to paint a dormer or a gable and breaking his neck. 

Next thread - How do you work on a cedar shingle roof?


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

NEPS.US said:


> Now imagine this guy that doesnt work on houses like this climbing up on that cedar roof to paint a dormer or a gable and breaking his neck.
> 
> Next thread - How do you work on a cedar shingle roof?


That's easy. Get a truck tire innertube and put it on. Nice and grippy:thumbsup:


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## HQP2005 (Feb 14, 2012)

NEPS.US said:


> My point is that basics should be learned under the watch of a employer. If you want to go into business painting exterior homes you best have training in doing so, not learning under the HO's dime. This is painting 101.
> 
> Ever hear the term "station wagon painter"?





NEPS.US said:


> That's the wear on the cedar shingle roof, not overspray.


 
Neps, Your right on both accounts, the shingles are mostly covered with moss except where it meets the side of the house.

I also agree that I should not do this unless I am absolutley sure it is going to come out right. The issue is not the painting itself, but how the paint is being applied. For which i considered bringing someone else in. If I dont have confidence in this person, Im not going to do it. I am trying to do right by the HO, and as I said previouly, am willing to let this one go.

I have a Jeep Cherokee and Mini-van by the way, so please refer to me as 
"a jeep cherokee painter"


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## Goode Painters (Jan 1, 2011)

Where ya @ in NY ill come out there n spray that bad boy for ya- ill even let ya backbrush for me- maybe even move my ladders- seriously that's only a couple days- its just a big lunchbox if that makes u nervous u might need more experience- I say suck it up and up sell the HO on painting that trim a different color- if its been the same white for years - that's how u make the neighbors notice do it well and do it fast my friend- I would


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## premierpainter (Apr 17, 2007)

I agree with Goode, easy house, no real detail. 4 days max.


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## Painter Chick (Mar 1, 2012)

Maybe its just me but, spraying has its good and bad. I think it would be less work to paint this house by hand one really good coat, if thats what the HO wants, instead of taping off everything. Just make sure the siding is really clean if you spray or it won't stick!


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## A+HomeWork (Dec 10, 2010)

NEPS.US said:


> No offense but I will bet my PT membership that you will be the lowest bidder by $4000.00.


Since you brought it up... how much would YOU bid it and how would you apply it? Throw the guy a bone!


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