# My EPA odyssey



## bikerboy

Start my first EPA RRP job tomorrow. Had to get the last few items and went to four stores to get 3 items. Signs from one, disposable respirators (only had 2 and need 3) and caution tape from one store.

It amazes me that paint stores are not keeping this stuff in stock! It's not like it won't get used. All but one had little idea about the stuff I wanted.


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## Workaholic

In the words of Chris



RCP said:


> Would you mind documenting and posting it here (in the Lead section), I think sharing the "how to's" and example will help a lot of us.
> Thanks







bikerboy said:


> It amazes me that paint stores are not keeping this stuff in stock! It's not like it won't get used. All but one had little idea about the stuff I wanted.


Just like with the painters and other trades some knew before others and those ones were usually a bit more prepared. Before long it will probably be standard stock items. No reason to leave money on the table.


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## bikerboy

Workaholic said:


> In the words of Chris
> 
> I'll post some of it.
> 
> 
> 
> Just like with the painters and other trades some knew before others and those ones were usually a bit more prepared. Before long it will probably be standard stock items. No reason to leave money on the table.


 What gets me is I have been getting sale papers and even RRP specific flyers with everything listed on it. Then you go into the stores and they have a dumbfounded look. Had all the big stuff, just those last few little things was all I wanted.


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## Robert carl

*Finished my first RRP Friday*

We completed our first lead job last Friday (2 weeks of Hell) For those of you familiar with KC it was in the Waldo area one of the old (peeling) tudors. We went thru some real crap with neighbors and a city clown sitting watching. We must have carried out 100lb's of paint chips. All the while another group was 1 block away power washing and sanding their hearts out working on another with no drops or containment of any kind. I guess we attracted attention with the tape and containment not to mention a crazy neighbor on HIGH alert after notifying them what we were doing. Turned out fine and home owner loves it. Neighbor on the other side wants his done also. Just not real sure if I'm ready for the stress created from the ambuguity of the reg's. Plus after comfronting the city worker sitting in his city truck on the city pay roll I determined ( I think) that he knows about "some sort" of reward. My carpenter is a HUGE human...I'm not small... discussed the folly of trying to do something silly like that. Just so ya know we hand scraped, hand washed and used 12 gallons of peel bond and 3 of trim magic. You would have to now dig thru about 40mil's of primer to find lead.


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## TJ Paint

Robert carl said:


> We went thru some real crap with neighbors and a city clown sitting watching. We must have carried out 100lb's of paint chips.
> not to mention a crazy neighbor on HIGH alert after notifying them what we were doing.
> Just not real sure if I'm ready for the stress created from the ambuguity of the reg's. Plus after comfronting the city worker sitting in his city truck on the city pay roll I determined ( I think) that he knows about "some sort" of reward.


sounds like fun, where do I sign up?


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## RCP

Robert carl said:


> We completed our first lead job last Friday (2 weeks of Hell) For those of you familiar with KC it was in the Waldo area one of the old (peeling) tudors. We went thru some real crap with neighbors and a city clown sitting watching. We must have carried out 100lb's of paint chips. All the while another group was 1 block away power washing and sanding their hearts out working on another with no drops or containment of any kind. I guess we attracted attention with the tape and containment not to mention a crazy neighbor on HIGH alert after notifying them what we were doing. Turned out fine and home owner loves it. Neighbor on the other side wants his done also. Just not real sure if I'm ready for the stress created from the ambuguity of the reg's. Plus after comfronting the city worker sitting in his city truck on the city pay roll I determined ( I think) that he knows about "some sort" of reward. My carpenter is a HUGE human...I'm not small... discussed the folly of trying to do something silly like that. Just so ya know we hand scraped, hand washed and used 12 gallons of peel bond and 3 of trim magic. You would have to now dig thru about 40mil's of primer to find lead.


Thanks for posting that, hand washing sounds like the way it is going to have to be, did you take any pics you'd care to post? Did you test for lead or just assume?


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## aaron61

Wev'e also been hand washing.You should have casually mentioned to Mr.City Worker,"Gee,I wonder how they're doing down at that other house????"


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## bikerboy

First day on the job and I have to make some notes for the future.


Price a "porta pot" in the next job. You can't go into the home unless you decomtaminate yourself first. Have them set it inside the barrier.
Schedule doing the job in cooler weather. Wearing the suit in 87 degree weather with 80% humidity. You find out REAL quick why Tyvek is used for a wind stop and vapor barrier. I have never sweated so much in my life. Could feel it running down my arms and legs. I carry a 7-11 52 ounce cup filled with ice and water. Plus a 2 1/2 gallon cooler for the guys. I filled my cup 4 times. (and only peed twice)


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## bikerboy

We started by building our barrier.


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## Workaholic

Biker, was that house tested, or was it assumed?


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## aaron61

bikerboy said:


> First day on the job and I have to make some notes for the future.
> 
> 
> Price a "porta pot" in the next job. You can't go into the home unless you decomtaminate yourself first. Have them set it inside the barrier.
> Schedule doing the job in cooler weather. Wearing the suit in 87 degree weather with 80% humidity. You find out REAL quick why Tyvek is used for a wind stop and vapor barrier. I have never sweated so much in my life. Could feel it running down my arms and legs. I carry a 7-11 52 ounce cup filled with ice and water. Plus a 2 1/2 gallon cooler for the guys. I filled my cup 4 times. (and only peed twice)


No drinks,food or cigarettes allowed in containment area:whistling2:


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## bikerboy

Next is spreading out the plastic and duct taping it to the foundation. We use 20' wide plastic.


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## bikerboy

aaron61 said:


> No drinks,food or cigarettes allowed in containment area:whistling2:


 
There wasn't :thumbsup:


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## KLaw

bikerboy said:


> We started by building our barrier.


 
Good Lord - that looks like a freakin crime scene. No wonder you had an audience!!!


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## VanDamme

KLaw said:


> Good Lord - that looks like a freakin crime scene. No wonder you had an audience!!!


They need some flashing lights on their vans! :thumbup:


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## bikerboy

VanDamme said:


> They need some flashing lights on their vans! :thumbup:


 
No van. In fact the pickup is in the shop. (transmission) Meant to take pictures of the open trailer I borrowed. It is a real "Station Wagon Bandit" setup.


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## johnthepainter

good job bb, keep us posted.


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## bikerboy

Workaholic said:


> Biker, was that house tested, or was it assumed?


Assumed


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## NCPaint1

Why dont you add that in on your proposals? 


*** On homes built prior to 1978 lead test required prior to proposal acceptance ***

Give 2 prices, 1 for a positive lead test, 1 for a negative. If they dont want to do the test, then they automatically sign the positive lead bid.


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## bikerboy

NCPaint1 said:


> Why dont you add that in on your proposals?
> 
> 
> *** On homes built prior to 1978 lead test required prior to proposal acceptance ***
> 
> Give 2 prices, 1 for a positive lead test, 1 for a negative. If they dont want to do the test, then they automatically sign the positive lead bid.


The home owner is my dentist. Been going to him since I was seventeen. He got a good price and it gave us a chance to experiance what is involved on the job, in a real life situation.

Have another job I looked at today. That one will be tested. In fact all will be tested after this job.


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## TJ Paint

bikerboy said:


> The home owner is my dentist. Been going to him since I was seventeen. He got a good price and it gave us a chance to experiance what is involved on the job, in a real life situation.
> 
> Have another job I looked at today. That one will be tested. In fact all will be tested after this job.


sounds like a good plan. Good job.


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## bikerboy

Got rained out today, so I cropped a few more pics.

Left off at taping down the plastic.

After that we suited up. Shoe covers are not on yet.


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## bikerboy

After prep work was done, bulk of debris is vacummed up. Then both sides of the plastic is folded into the center. It was rolled up and all seams sealed with tape to contain the dust.


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## bikerboy

Vacumm dust and debris is deposited into trash bags, twisted into a "neck", then folded over and duct taped.


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## RCP

Looks very well done BB!:thumbsup:

So what do you think? Did it add so much in material and labor that it is not worth it?



I moved some of the posts respirators and testing to their own threads, there is some great info here, thanks to all for the input.


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## TJ Paint

from what it sounds, doing these jobs in the middle of summer, I'd stay away from these jobs and the space suits required. Just seems like a heatstroke waiting to happen. Yeah I know, drink water and stuff, but still.


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## bikerboy

RCP said:


> Looks very well done BB!:thumbsup:
> 
> So what do you think? Did it add so much in material and labor that it is not worth it?
> 
> It was not really that bad. That was just one side of the house. We did the front that same day. The bad thing was working in the suits in high heat and humidity, it really takes it out of you. (Aaron must be killing his guys in FL.)
> 
> You can make money at it. Like anything else in this business, you need to figure out your time and charge accordingly. It definitely adds more than the EPA's approximate $200 additional costs. Some things, like the HEPA vac will pay for itself over the years. Had close to $200 in suits, plastic and N-100 masks.
> 
> Not sure if I'd do an interior at this point, but I'd do another exterior.
> 
> I moved some of the posts respirators and testing to their own threads, there is some great info here, thanks to all for the input.


 
.......


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## bikerboy

TJ Paint said:


> from what it sounds, doing these jobs in the middle of summer, I'd stay away from these jobs and the space suits required. Just seems like a heatstroke waiting to happen. Yeah I know, drink water and stuff, but still.


You hit it on the head. I will not do another one during hot weather. The suit raises your body temp too much. You would have to factor in employees slowing down and taking many breaks. I personally was lightheaded/dizzy after a few hours.


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## RCP

TJ Paint said:


> from what it sounds, doing these jobs in the middle of summer, I'd stay away from these jobs and the space suits required. Just seems like a heatstroke waiting to happen. Yeah I know, drink water and stuff, but still.


Just a reminder, the suits are recommended, not required.
More from the EPA here...


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## bikerboy

On the bright side, once all prepwork is done, it can be treated like a "regular" job. 

Can't wait.

Thanks for cleaning it up Chris!


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## bikerboy

RCP said:


> Just a reminder, the suits are recommended, not required.
> More from the EPA here...


We argued about that. Decided to do it the hard way the first time. Plus you don't take that stuff (contaminated dust) home.

Also wonder if you were to get audited, would you earn some brownie points by going the extra mile?


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## RCP

bikerboy said:


> We argued about that. Decided to do it the hard way the first time. Plus you don't take that stuff (contaminated dust) home.
> 
> Also wonder if you were to get audited, would you earn some brownie points by going the extra mile?


I agree, I think it is best to wear them and be safe, just wanted to point out that it is not required. 
I think it depends on the situation on what is best.


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## Workaholic

How much time was added to that job for the extra prep? 


Thanks for this thread Biker. :thumbsup:


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## Roamer

bikerboy said:


> We argued about that. Decided to do it the hard way the first time. Plus you don't take that stuff (contaminated dust) home.


We've done several RRP jobs already this year. Now with the loss of the opt out clause almost every job we do will involve the RRP.

We recommend to all of our painters even after they've worn tyvek all day to come back to the shop and change into clean clothes before going home. Many of our guys have babies at home. Their 'whites' go in a garbage bag and we recommend to them to wash them separately from the babies clothes when they get home.

We had temps over 100 degrees for four days in a row. Brutal in the suits and brutal for the plants and lawns that were covered in plastic.

We definitely need some kind of breathable material that is somehow also impermeable. Yeah, I know those two attributes are mutually exclusive, at least for now.


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## Dean CRCNA

Excellent post and info here!

Just a little crazy info ... I hear the Tyvek suits are going to start getting in short supply. They are buying millions of them for the BP oil leak clean up. Of course you don't have to buy Tyvek itself. It could be another brand.

I've learned to buy larger sizes 

There have been a couple of times that I wear shorts and a t-shirt during inside demo and then when I leave the containment area ... I put on a suit (to keep it out of the rest of the house). Crazy, I know ... but keeps me cooler. Good idea on keeping clothes separate when washing. Got to protect those babies.

I don't do much larger exterior jobs, but if I did, I probably would put a sign outside that said ...

*Law states that only a Lead Safe Certified Firms can work on homes built before 1978* (or something like it).

That would make other workers in the neighborhood nervous


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## aaron61

bikerboy said:


> Vacumm dust and debris is deposited into trash bags, twisted into a "neck", then folded over and duct taped.


It's funny...We seal it all up like it's ready for Haz Mat. Then you just throw it in the trash????? WTF!!!!!!!!:blink:


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## RCP

aaron61 said:


> It's funny...We seal it all up like it's ready for Haz Mat. Then you just throw it in the trash????? WTF!!!!!!!!:blink:


Just wait a few years!
http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/environment/article_4af85e5c-6863-11df-b9a8-001cc4c03286.html


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## NEPS.US

Please tell me that picture was you!


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## bikerboy

NEPS.US said:


> Please tell me that picture was you!


Sorry to disapoint you, but I was taking the pictures. Am also quite a bit taller and unfortunately wider than that guy.


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## chrisn

looks like this guy


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