# Hi build primer



## Local paint pro (May 15, 2018)

Hey guys, looking for a quality interior primer that would be similar if not the same as a level 5 primer. I need it to be able to cover new drywall and also painted drywall that is pretty old and not smooth or aesthetically pleasing. Client doesn’t want to pay for extensive wall smoothing or level 5 finish, but primer and 2 paint coats is the minimum I ll put my name on for this situation. I want a primer that I can use throughout this job that with significant leveling and preferably some stainblocking potential. Has to come from SW, BM, or PPG, (one local paint store has specialty stuff too like XIM, O LEARYS, zinnser, and inslx). Thanks for the input!!


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## kmp (Jan 30, 2011)

There are lots of high build primers out there but none are heavy enough to give a level 5 finish. The only way to get level 5 is to give it a level 5 skim.


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## PaPainter724 (Apr 22, 2016)

No such thing bud. The primer I've ever found was power hide and even that was meant for walls that were almost flawless to begin with.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

can't have hi-build and stain sealing in one product. Hi build is pigment and sealing is resin. And there is only so much of either that will fit in a can. Except Marquee of course!


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

PACman said:


> can't have hi-build and stain sealing in one product. Hi build is pigment and sealing is resin. And there is only so much of either that will fit in a can. Except Marquee of course!


And tuesday is off to a great start ROFLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

PPG sells something for that. Its more like really thin mud, than a primer though. Not 6-4, but this stuff gets 100 sq ft a gallon, so its pretty damn thick. I dont know what it called though.

However its not stain blocking. I would spot prime any stains separately.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

Local paint pro said:


> Hey guys, looking for a quality interior primer that would be similar if not the same as a level 5 primer. I need it to be able to cover new drywall and also painted drywall that is pretty old and not smooth or aesthetically pleasing. Client doesn’t want to pay for extensive wall smoothing or level 5 finish, but primer and 2 paint coats is the minimum I ll put my name on for this situation. I want a primer that I can use throughout this job that with significant leveling and preferably some stainblocking potential. Has to come from SW, BM, or PPG, (one local paint store has specialty stuff too like XIM, O LEARYS, zinnser, and inslx). Thanks for the input!!


I've only used it outside but Z-Prime Plus is thick and it says interior/exterior. It's fast drt oil though ha haha sticky and stinky.


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## KooLayed369 (Jan 8, 2018)

Kelly Moore sells a product that is a hi-build primer and sealer in one. It is called Level 5 Drywall Primer/Sealer, or 988 if you want the product code. It just came out last year and I cant speak much to the sealing capabilities. But it is available at any Kelly Moore store.

And like most other thick primers, it gets 80-200sf per gallon.


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

There are a variety of products designed for that. Just have to look around. 



USG makes its own version as well. This is meant, obviously, for a level 4 surface. It may or may not be more cost effective to do a traditional lvl 5 vs a spray applied.


My 2 cents on the subject. If your spray good enough you might be able to get away with it. BUT with a high volume solids, chances are it won't level out as nicely as a sanded surface. But...it all comes down to speed. If you can achieve a similar finish in half the time or more, client depending, it may not be all that bad.


https://www.sherwin-williams.com/painting-contractors/products/builders-solution-surfacer


_"When properly applied to a drywall surface with a minimum of a Level 4 
finish, Builders Solution Interior Surfacer will provide a Level 5 finish. 
Based on the Gypsum Association 
publication GA-214 and ASTM C840."_


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## PNW Painter (Sep 5, 2013)

I’ve never sprayed a high-build level 5 surfacer, but I agree with Woodcoyote that it probably won’t level well. Unless you’re good at spraying you’re more than likely to create an ugly mess of the drywall.

Last week I watched a drywaller use an 18” roller to apply drywall mud that was thinned to the consistency of pancake batter. He’d roll on the mud and quickly blade it off. It was a quick process and the end result looked amazing. 

After spraying and backrolling a coat of 123 primer i though it was one of the best looking finishes I’ve seen.




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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

i sold some P&L Prohide silver hi-build primer to a customer once and they claimed it was like water. F-ing lairs! I took it back and it was thick as hell.


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## Mr Smith (Mar 11, 2016)

PACman said:


> i sold some P&L Prohide silver hi-build primer to a customer once and they claimed it was like water. F-ing lairs! I took it back and it was thick as hell.


The customer is always right.:wink:


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Mr Smith said:


> The customer is always right.:wink:


This is pretty typical when painters are trying to convince the people that hired them or they work for that they should be using SW. For whatever reason they are so indebted to SW anyway. You'd be surprised at some of the out and out lies painters will tell to keep any other paint brand off a job.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

Today, I went to go prime and spray lids in a remodel with smooth wall. I had to call the GC to get the drywallers back out to sand the walls. They did a really great job of skim coating without sanding, and I wish I could do the same, but its just not quite good enough for eggshell paint. I also decided to switch from PPG 6-2 (regular sealer primer) to 6-4, which is their primer surfacer. Higher build. The store guy told me their product 6-1 is the level 5 thick as balls primer. He also said, while you wouldnt want to spray it with a medium pump (like my titan 440) all the time, for a job or two, it wont destroy the pump.

Very frustrating going out to a job, then having to turn around cuz someone else cant do their damn job right... Tomorrow's a new day though...


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## Painting Practice (Jul 21, 2013)

stain blocking and building cannot possibly be used together as they are essentially opposing properties. One you are using air and the other you want to eliminate it. block first, build after is how i usually do it.


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

Painting Practice said:


> stain blocking and building cannot possibly be used together as they are essentially opposing properties. One you are using air and the other you want to eliminate it. block first, build after is how i usually do it.



Not sure where you heard that one. Curious to see that though.


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## DBarnerjr (Jul 12, 2018)

Tuff hides is a sprayable level 5 product from Sheetrock. Requires a big pump to spray it. 1095 or 1595 Graco. 521 to 527 tip. Not really made for painted surfaces though,new drywall


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## Painting Practice (Jul 21, 2013)

I didn't need anything but experience to prove it. Anything that builds and is easily sand-able is porous and mostly air. Anything meant to block stains is probably the furthest thing from porous. Do you have a product that contradicts that assumption?


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Painting Practice said:


> I didn't need anything but experience to prove it. Anything that builds and is easily sand-able is porous and mostly air. Anything meant to block stains is probably the furthest thing from porous. Do you have a product that contradicts that assumption?


This is absolutely correct. Any product that does "both" does both pretty badly. It's physics and chemistry, and you certainly can't argue with the both of them.BUT, if a product IS thick enough it can and will seal SOME stains.....for a while. It just takes them longer to migrate to the surface.


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## CK_68847 (Apr 17, 2010)

Woodco said:


> PPG sells something for that. Its more like really thin mud, than a primer though. Not 6-4, but this stuff gets 100 sq ft a gallon, so its pretty damn thick. I dont know what it called though.
> 
> However its not stain blocking. I would spot prime any stains separately.


PPG and SW both have one. The PPG is called surfacer and the SW is called builders solution. They are speced to go over a level 4 finish and you’re suppose to get level 5. Of course it’s not as good as level 5 if everything is done correctly. It’s usually used with semi gloss or epoxy as your top coat. I have used a ton of each product. You can spray or roll it. Either way the high build coat better be completely uniform without any type of skipper or light spray area, or it will show when you put the paint on. The other thing that sucks about it is if you spray and back roll it is you better roll it like you would block filler. It dries down exactly like it looks wet. Primer will soak in and whatever stipple usually doesn’t show much. This stuff sets on top, so the best method I found was to have a guy roll behind you with a wet roller and a guy knock it down with a dry roller to prevent any stipple.


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