# Contractor pricing on promar 200 zero



## matt19422

It has become knowledge to me that some contractors are getting promar 200 zero at a price between $10-14 a gallon. Let's discuss....


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## Workaholic

matt19422 said:


> It has become knowledge to me that some contractors are getting promar 200 zero at a price between $10-14 a gallon. Let's discuss....


My price is higher than that but I don't buy much promar 200. Typically We get the best pricing on what we buy the most of.


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## matt19422

Workaholic said:


> My price is higher than that but I don't buy much promar 200. Typically We get the best pricing on what we buy the most of.


Pricing on Volume doesnt seem to be the case anymore, that is why this thread was created.


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## Workaholic

matt19422 said:


> Pricing on Volume doesnt seem to be the case anymore, that is why this thread was created.


I read the thread. 

Volume is a scrutinized term, I prefer value. A rep or local manager enters in the prices based on what you buy. Not necessarily based on you being a whale but based on what you buy regularly. So if you buy lets say six different products daily/weekly/monthly your pricing on that product will be based on that. If you never buy say DTM they will probably comp you some to try but the price in the computer will be higher. Of course it can be adjusted by the one ringing you up, on that basis stores and regions will vary depending upon the customers perceived value and the employees behavior.


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## the paintman

With all due respect I find it extremely hard to believe anyone is getting anything let alone promar 200 zero for 10 bucks nowadays. Even 14 is quite unlikely. From SWP especially. They are not in the mood to give away paint. 

Surface conditioner is more than that. I think someone is jerking your chain. 

I have a pretty good deal and I'm considerably north of 14


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## Dave Mac

Damn Im upwards of 22 plus, and use a good amount, time for a call to my rep


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## Dave Mac

Damn Im upwards of 22 plus, and use a good amount, time for a call to my rep


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## Dave Mac

Damn Im upwards of 22 plus, and use a good amount, time for a call to my rep


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## wills fresh coat

the paintman said:


> With all due respect I find it extremely hard to believe anyone is getting anything let alone promar 200 zero for 10 bucks nowadays. Even 14 is quite unlikely. From SWP especially. They are not in the mood to give away paint.
> 
> Surface conditioner is more than that. I think someone is jerking your chain.
> 
> I have a pretty good deal and I'm considerably north of 14


I think I will leave this alone....I've beat this dead horse enough :thumbup:


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## wills fresh coat

Workaholic said:


> I read the thread.
> 
> Volume is a scrutinized term, I prefer value. A rep or local manager enters in the prices based on what you buy. Not necessarily based on you being a whale but based on what you buy regularly. So if you buy lets say six different products daily/weekly/monthly your pricing on that product will be based on that. If you never buy say DTM they will probably comp you some to try but the price in the computer will be higher. Of course it can be adjusted by the one ringing you up, on that basis stores and regions will vary depending upon the customers perceived value and the employees behavior.


This is exactly how it's done


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## MuraCoat

matt19422 said:


> It has become knowledge to me that some contractors are getting promar 200 zero at a price between $10-14 a gallon. *Let's discuss*....


This should be a discussion you have with your local SW reps. I know you like to call reps out to the job site. This is where you need to address your issue...

Business 101 - if you buy more volume, you will get a lower price than businesses that by less. I am surprised you don't know this?

I pay $25 for a gallon on ProMar 200 and I only buy 100 gallons a year, if that. I don't expect to pay what a contractors pays that buys 5000 gallons of the product a year. In new construction, 5000 gallons a year is nothing.


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## mudbone

MuraCoat said:


> This should be a discussion you have with your local SW reps. I know you like to call reps out to the job site. This is where you need to address your issue...
> 
> Business 101 - if you buy more volume, you will get a lower price than businesses that by less. I am surprised you don't know this?
> 
> I pay $25 for a gallon on ProMar 200 and I only buy 100 gallons a year, if that. I don't expect to pay what a contractors pays that buys 5000 gallons of the product a year. In new construction, 5000 gallons a year is nothing.


 A preferred customer discount is better than a painting contractor discount.


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## MikeCalifornia

Yes, there are customers that get PM200 for what you say 10-14/gal. Don't let what others get, get you in a tizzy. It takes a great deal of approval up the management chain to input pricing like so. It normally ends with your sales rep giving you the best area pricing. Anything lower the DM or area VP has to sign off and the rep better have the info to prove the need for this type of pricing. Most painters will have PM200 for 20-25/gal, still a good value for all the sheens and colors that are offered. No upgrade to a more expensive product when you want red, etc.


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## NCPaint1

mudbone said:


> A preferred customer discount is better than a painting contractor discount.


Some of my retail customers buy more than some of my contractors. Do my contractors deserve better just because they have a name printed on a card?


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## TJ Paint

Another promar 200 thread? Holy smokes. 

I'm sorry I doubted you Will. I'm on my way to buy you that sandwich but I broke down in Detroit...


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## matt19422

MuraCoat said:


> This should be a discussion you have with your local SW reps. I know you like to call reps out to the job site. This is where you need to address your issue...
> 
> Business 101 - if you buy more volume, you will get a lower price than businesses that by less. I am surprised you don't know this?
> 
> I pay $25 for a gallon on ProMar 200 and I only buy 100 gallons a year, if that. I don't expect to pay what a contractors pays that buys 5000 gallons of the product a year. In new construction, 5000 gallons a year is nothing.


I'm sorry Muracoat but this a platform to discuss things related to the painting industry, I may choose to talk to other contractors and compare notes as you should do as well. 

One of the reasons that I do not use SW any longer is due to there questionable pricing structures. I run a strong, honest business and expect that the ball field is fair and balanced on both sides. If a contractor does not educate themselves on there own pricing then that is when they are throwing $8-$10 per gallon away. That is business 101. My price was fine, but someone else pointed out that SW pricing is BS. That is why I took my business to another brand 2 years ago.

My simple point is that pricing is not all about volume with SW as you would like to think.

-Thanks


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## Tonyg

If you haven't used SW for the past two years then what is the point of this thread?


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## ewingpainting.net

I'm at 11.67


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## NCPaint1

ewingpainting.net said:


> I'm at 11.67


Lines in the water........


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## DK Remodeling

Dave Mac said:


> Damn Im upwards of 22 plus, and use a good amount, time for a call to my rep


Jeez Dave, I think we heard you the first time. You don't have to post it 3 times


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## mudbone

NCPaint1 said:


> Some of my retail customers buy more than some of my contractors. Do my contractors deserve better just because they have a name printed on a card?


Some do some dont.I am talking about the so called ones they call preferred customers that have never ever or very seldom buy from a paint store.Customers have gave me their preferred customer discount cards 30 to 40% off, saying they never buy from them and wonder what they did to receive it.And to answer your question no painters, are no better than contractors at least in the eyes of retailers!Same color of money.I also switched over from contractors discount to preferred customer.The deals are more plentiful and I still get to hand out calling cards.:yes:


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## ewingpainting.net

NCPaint1 said:


> Lines in the water........


but if you believe the internet......


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## Ramsden Painting

They pay us to us thei product

Sent from my iPad using PaintTalk


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## wills fresh coat

ewingpainting.net said:


> I'm at 11.67


That's a good price....what finish is that?


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## ewingpainting.net

wills fresh coat said:


> That's a good price....what finish is that?


eggshell


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## DK Remodeling

ewingpainting.net said:


> I'm at 11.67


You are on fire sir.


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## ewingpainting.net

DK Remodeling said:


> You are on fire sir.


wait till you hear my roar, lol


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## Painter-Aaron

MuraCoat said:


> This should be a discussion you have with your local SW reps. I know you like to call reps out to the job site. This is where you need to address your issue...
> 
> Business 101 - if you buy more volume, you will get a lower price than businesses that by less. I am surprised you don't know this?
> 
> I pay $25 for a gallon on ProMar 200 and I only buy 100 gallons a year, if that. I don't expect to pay what a contractors pays that buys 5000 gallons of the product a year. In new construction, 5000 gallons a year is nothing.


I agree. As much as THE BEST price would be nice, I do not expect to get it, unless I am buying large volumes. I expect them to make a profit, just as much as I expect myself to make one. 

I do not have the best price, I know of companies getting better prices, but I understand that although I go there for 95% of my needs, I am still a 1-3 man operation and don't need to buy as much as the larger outfit next to me. 

That being said, theres no harm in having a sit down with your rep and discussing prices. If you plan on using that one store for a majority or all of your needs they are going to be willing to give you a better price upfront and improve as you purchase more through them.


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## wills fresh coat

ewingpainting.net said:


> eggshell


Cheaper then my price


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## ewingpainting.net

wills fresh coat said:


> Cheaper then my price


you should talk to your rep bout that


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## wills fresh coat

ewingpainting.net said:


> you should talk to your rep bout that


Post a receipt and I will


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## MuraCoat

matt19422 said:


> I'm sorry Muracoat but this a platform to discuss things related to the painting industry, I may choose to talk to other contractors and compare notes as you should do as well.


I am sorry Matt, but if you don't like the prices SW is giving you, you need to talk to the Store manager where you opened up you SW account. If that doesn't work, try the regional manager. Crying to a public forum isn't going to get you better prices at SW... We all pay a different price for paint, just like we pay our painters all a different hourly rate... :blink:



matt19422 said:


> One of the reasons that I do not use SW any longer is due to there questionable pricing structures. I run a strong, honest business and expect that the ball field is fair and balanced on both sides.* If a contractor does not educate themselves on there own pricing then that is when they are throwing $8-$10 per gallon away. That is business 101.* My price was fine, but someone else pointed out that SW pricing is BS. That is why I took my business to another brand 2 years ago.
> 
> My simple point is that pricing is not all about volume with SW as you would like to think.


My point is, volume will get you lower prices. And if that doesn't work, try bitch'n a little to the Store Manager!


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## NCPaint1

MuraCoat said:


> My point is, volume will get you lower prices. And if that doesn't work, try bitch'n a little to the Store Manager!


There's this country's problem in a nutshell. If you don't get what you want...bitch until you do. Then when your customers do it to you, whine about that.


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## DeanV

I try not to complain too much about price, but I was not happy to find out I was paying 15% more for BM WB ceiling paint than another store was charging or $5 more per gallon on Regal select, and these are our go to interior paints.


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## matt19422

MuraCoat said:


> I am sorry Matt, but if you don't like the prices SW is giving you, you need to talk to the Store manager where you opened up you SW account. If that doesn't work, try the regional manager. Crying to a public forum isn't going to get you better prices at SW... We all pay a different price for paint, just like we pay our painters all a different hourly rate... :blink:
> 
> 
> 
> My point is, volume will get you lower prices. And if that doesn't work, try bitch'n a little to the Store Manager!


MuraCoat, I'm not crying, you must not of followed Wills thread that was removed and reposted. Please look at that thread.

-Thanks


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## MuraCoat

NCPaint1 said:


> There's this country's problem in a nutshell. If you don't get what you want...bitch until you do. Then when your customers do it to you, whine about that.


No, if you are buying paint in volume, and you are not being treated fairly, then bitch coz you would have a valid complaint. Matt seems to think he is being over charged. 
I myself shop at lowes or home depot 85% of the time. I have no complaints.


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## PBFINISHING

Depends on your relationship with your sales rep, but SW does price on what you use the most. But most contractors in the Toronto area are using paint from Dulux and General Paints now because it is cheaper.


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## ProWallGuy

I'll admit my biggest issue with SW is the fact that I have an account in their system. I am _supposed_ to be paying $XX for YY product. But it seems that every SW store I go to, they _attempt_ to charge me differently, every single time. Seriously? Isn't my price on my account that you just pulled up on your computer? Now I have to tell them how much I'm _supposed_ to pay for YY product. That is just plain irritating, seeing as they aren't independently owned, and are part of a national chain. My price should be the same at every store.


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## NCPaint1

DeanV said:


> I try not to complain too much about price, but I was not happy to find out I was paying 15% more for BM WB ceiling paint than another store was charging or $5 more per gallon on Regal select, and these are our go to interior paints.


Yeah that sucks. I rely on input from customers so I know where I'm at.


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## mudbone

ProWallGuy said:


> I'll admit my biggest issue with SW is the fact that I have an account in their system. I am _supposed_ to be paying $XX for YY product. But it seems that every SW store I go to, they _attempt_ to charge me differently, every single time. Seriously? Isn't my price on my account that you just pulled up on your computer? Now I have to tell them how much I'm _supposed_ to pay for YY product. That is just plain irritating, seeing as they aren't independently owned, and are part of a national chain. My price should be the same at every store.


 Everytime I go to my one and only sw store the pricing is always different in their system.Seems like I have to have them correct it all the time.This also is irritating.


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## Damon T

mudbone said:


> Everytime I go to my one and only sw store the pricing is always different in their system.Seems like I have to have them correct it all the time.This also is irritating.


Yeah me too. My latest was buying a bag of 5 minute easy sand for $27 at a SW store I don't shop at often. I called my local store and had them fix it, but still, c'mon its ridiculous!
The only "win" is Sher-wins...


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## Cam3sc

Do you pay the same for a McDonalds #1 in SC as you do in NY? What about house/land/gas.....the list goes on and on. You can't compare pricing across the board.


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## wills fresh coat

mudbone said:


> Everytime I go to my one and only sw store the pricing is always different in their system.Seems like I have to have them correct it all the time.This also is irritating.


What's crazy is that when them aholes have a price increase it will go up on all of my accounts and at every store. But if I go to a store that's not my (home store) the pricing is all fuuckedd up


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## Cam3sc

wills fresh coat said:


> What's crazy is that when them aholes have a price increase it will go up on all of my accounts and at every store. But if I go to a store that's not my (home store) the pricing is all fuuckedd up


If your home store puts your prices in then it goes to all of the other SW to through Shersource...unless you have multiple accounts and they find the wrong one.....


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## ewingpainting.net

wills fresh coat said:


> Post a receipt and I will


dude, I'm not even serious. this thread is stupid.

if your worried about what your competitor is paying you have a whole other issue.


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## Workaholic

Cam3sc said:


> If your home store puts your prices in then it goes to all of the other SW to through Shersource...unless you have multiple accounts and they find the wrong one.....


Yep.


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## RH

quote=NCPaint1;389703]There's this country's problem in a nutshell. If you don't get what you want...bitch until you do. Then when your customers do it to you, whine about that.[/quote]

Aw, quit your bitchin'!


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## matt19422

Like so many on here, this thread derailed! Im not wasting anymore time with this thread. RIP


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## Wolfgang

matt19422 said:


> Like so many on here, this thread derailed! Im not wasting anymore time with this thread. RIP


Well, you've previously stated you stopped using SW two years ago. What are you using now and what are your prices?


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## matt19422

Wolfgang said:


> Well, you've previously stated you stopped using SW two years ago. What are you using now and what are your prices?


Wolfgang, I use BM on 90% of my work, my prices are competitive with local and national averages, and my rep takes care of any problems if they arise.


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## Rbriggs82

I'm curious as to what you guys are paying for a 5er of masterhide. I went in there the other day and they wanted $90 bucks I was paying $70 (still too high) in October but I haven't used it since then so they reset my price. 

They refused to lower the price back down so I guess I'll be using ppg speedwell for ceilings for now on.


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## Wolfgang

matt19422 said:


> Wolfgang, I use BM on 90% of my work, my prices are competitive with local and national averages, and my rep takes care of any problems if they arise.


So what you're saying is that you won't post your prices?

I found it odd, after you stated that you stopped using SW two years ago, that you would want to continue an SW product based thread. Just curious to see how your BM prices actually stack up against others. Do you think that maybe BM bases their individual acct prices based on the contractor's sales volume? Or is it straight across the board same pricing for everyone?


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## matt19422

Wolfgang said:


> So what you're saying is that you won't post your prices?
> 
> I found it odd, after you stated that you stopped using SW two years ago, that you would want to continue an SW product based thread. Just curious to see how your BM prices actually stack up against others. Do you think that maybe BM bases their individual acct prices based on the contractor's sales volume? Or is it straight across the board same pricing for everyone?


Because this thread was to continue from wills fresh coats thread that was taken down yesterday And edited, then reposted. People were pointing out that they were getting promar 200 for less with less volume than some of the bigger outfits. Some think that there price is based on volume. When i stopped using SW my rep called offering me much better pricing. Too late, I had enough of the SW price games and the other thread was a great example.


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## NCPaint1

Wolfgang said:


> Just curious to see how your BM prices actually stack up against others. Do you think that maybe BM bases their individual acct prices based on the contractor's sales volume? Or is it straight across the board same pricing for everyone?


BM stores ( other than a handful ) are independently owned. We set our own pricing, and that can vary greatly. Our biggest complaint from contractors.


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## MuraCoat

This should have been a thread about "all products" Sherwin Williams...


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## Cam3sc

MuraCoat said:


> This should have been a thread about "all products" Sherwin Williams...


SW is like wal-mart. Everyone hates them because they are the biggest.


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## wills fresh coat

Cam3sc said:


> SW is like wal-mart. Everyone hates them because they are the biggest.


Sw is not the biggest


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## Cam3sc

wills fresh coat said:


> Sw is not the biggest


It is in the US...Just like Wal-Mart


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## NCPaint1

Cam3sc said:


> It is in the US...Just like Wal-Mart


Think PPG passed them with the purchase from Akzo.


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## TONYDANZASLAP

This is my experience. I worked at one of the largest painting contractors in Ohio from 2013-2016. I worked in the office and dealt with painting invoices daily. We did roughly $200,000 a year in purchases for Promar 200. That was what the company used most on jobs and recommended. We had some of the best pricing on Promar 200 in Ohio. We got charged $17/gallon plus tax. Retail in my area was between $60-$65/gallon.


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## PNW Painter

There is no way that ProMar 200 retails for anywhere near $60 - $65. That's Emerald pricing, but I'd imagine that $17/gal is about right for a large outfit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## slinger58

Necro- thread, anyone?


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## Rbriggs82

PNW Painter said:


> There is no way that ProMar 200 retails for anywhere near $60 - $65. That's Emerald pricing, but I'd imagine that $17/gal is about right for a large outfit.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Last I saw it retails at around $58. In reality it's worth no more than $25.

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk


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## Zoomer

We wised up and stopped buying SW.
The pricing game isn't for us.
Yet when I look back I can recall failure with so many SW products. Tired of the B S we exclusively use Ben Moore. Using a combination of the two brands in the past I can honestly say Ben Moore always outperformed SW across the board, when comparing similar products. SW failed us too many times while Benjamin Moore has never failed us. Really who cares if occasionally you have to spend a buck or two more with BM. The difference is easily recouped in labor savings.
Regardless of the job or products used BM always comes out on top.
Don't believe me? That's fine. Keep fooling yourself into thinking SW is the ONE.
A independent study of contractors came out in 2016, you can find it online.
The study shows that if one paint had to be used BM Regal select was the choice for more contractors from coast to coast. No matter the sheen. A distant second choice was SW Cashmere.
The cost of the paint doesn't save you money.
The amount of labor saved because of quality paint makes you money.


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## PACman

Zoomer said:


> We wised up and stopped buying SW.
> The pricing game isn't for us.
> Yet when I look back I can recall failure with so many SW products. Tired of the B S we exclusively use Ben Moore. Using a combination of the two brands in the past I can honestly say Ben Moore always outperformed SW across the board, when comparing similar products. SW failed us too many times while Benjamin Moore has never failed us. Really who cares if occasionally you have to spend a buck or two more with BM. The difference is easily recouped in labor savings.
> Regardless of the job or products used BM always comes out on top.
> Don't believe me? That's fine. Keep fooling yourself into thinking SW is the ONE.
> A independent study of contractors came out in 2016, you can find it online.
> The study shows that if one paint had to be used BM Regal select was the choice for more contractors from coast to coast. No matter the sheen. A distant second choice was SW Cashmere.
> The cost of the paint doesn't save you money.
> The amount of labor saved because of quality paint makes you money.


Preach it brother! Unfortunately most painters aren't known for being good business people. They pretty much don't get the whole labor savings thing. A few dollars more or a few minutes longer to drive to a BM store is peanuts compared to the cost of labor lost to product failures and application problems. Most painters will never figure that out and will sped their entire career struggling to make ends meet while chasing the next 10 Promar200/A-100 jobs down to pay the bills. I've been watching this whole process repeatedly since 1984.


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## PACman

The most amazing thing about Promar 200? I mean THE most amazing thing about promar 200? The fact that most of the painters using it will flat out lie about other products that out perform it to justify their continued use of it. I will NEVER understand this yet it happens ALL the time. Ask your PPG rep sometime.


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## Delta Painting

I quit using SW years ago they like to play games with pricing have no clue how the products work offer sH!t advice. I too only use BM superior products superior service is where I like to get my paint and sundry"s. That's what my customers get from me and my crew so I expect the same from my paint supply's...


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## Zoomer

PACman said:


> Zoomer said:
> 
> 
> 
> We wised up and stopped buying SW.
> The pricing game isn't for us.
> Yet when I look back I can recall failure with so many SW products. Tired of the B S we exclusively use Ben Moore. Using a combination of the two brands in the past I can honestly say Ben Moore always outperformed SW across the board, when comparing similar products. SW failed us too many times while Benjamin Moore has never failed us. Really who cares if occasionally you have to spend a buck or two more with BM. The difference is easily recouped in labor savings.
> Regardless of the job or products used BM always comes out on top.
> Don't believe me? That's fine. Keep fooling yourself into thinking SW is the ONE.
> A independent study of contractors came out in 2016, you can find it online.
> The study shows that if one paint had to be used BM Regal select was the choice for more contractors from coast to coast. No matter the sheen. A distant second choice was SW Cashmere.
> The cost of the paint doesn't save you money.
> The amount of labor saved because of quality paint makes you money.
> 
> 
> 
> Preach it brother! Unfortunately most painters aren't known for being good business people. They pretty much don't get the whole labor savings thing. A few dollars more or a few minutes longer to drive to a BM store is peanuts compared to the cost of labor lost to product failures and application problems. Most painters will never figure that out and will sped their entire career struggling to make ends meet while chasing the next 10 Promar200/A-100 jobs down to pay the bills. I've been watching this whole process repeatedly since 1984.
Click to expand...

If you are foolish enough to pay more than 25 for this than don't complain about your company being stagnant.


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## SWPB

SW & PPG only give the BEST pricing to either their largest customers (top 5%) OR the competitions' best customers. Those who have been loyal for years & have taken price increases get walked on. Why? As for the top customers, you cannot afford to lose a $250k / year account, so you have to be their cost leader. So when a 5% industry wide increase hits, the big guys might only have a 2% increase (if any). No worry, the store will get their money from the small & loyal guys. It's similar at independent stores, but let's face it, they usually only own one or two stores and cannot afford to give it away. They don't have that opportunity to profit at the manufacturing or division level.

As for the competitions' customers, the SW guys have no sales history to compare it against, so they slash & burn their pricing in hopes of stealing business away. 20% of something is better than 40% of nothing and why not make the PPG guy look bad. Now you know why the small guys & long time loyal guys get stomped on. It takes an act of congress for them to lower your pricing if you've been ok with it for years. Upper management can't let that happen.

Back to ProMar 200, here's what you can shoot for:
Flat (realistic: $13.50)
Egg (realistic: $15.00)
SG (realistic: $17.00)

The prices above are below store cost, but make a pretty penny for Division.

You have to think, SW has manufacturer cost, who then sells it to distribution, who then sells it to Division, and finally the store. The cost almost doubles each time. They're brilliant & control the entire process. "Store cost" isn't all that great, but sounds good to us when they say "i gave it to you at cost". If you can tap into their DIVISION cost, that's where you will find the PM200 Flat around $11, eggshell at $12.50, and semi at $14. These prices are usually reserved for the huge projects. BUT, if you're a long time customer, there's only one way for you to SIGNIFICANTLY drop your every day price & that's by supporting the competition. I'm not talking about shaving a dollar or two, I'm talking about dropping it to the bottom. Their next strategy is to change the game. If they're not willing to drop the 200 cost, then the rep will change you to another line, one that perhaps you don't have any sales history or knowledge of. That's where the regional products come in handy, such as Mid South Acrylic, CHB, Sherscrub, Masterhide, etc. You will like the price, but guess what, you gave up some quality. Quality ain't cheap and you're better off paying $200 more in material on a house than risking your reputation or slowing down your production for touch ups, hatbanding, marring, etc.

That's how company owned stores work folks and each one is in business to profit. Profit isn't a bad word. You just need to protect yourselves by understanding the game. It's a brilliant model really and explains why PPG & SW rule the market share. 

It's amazing what you learn by having beers with your reps . . .


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## goga

Cam3sc said:


> It is in the US...Just like Wal-Mart


Wal-Mart is big because of pricing, SW is big because of availability.. 7/365 till late, that alone requires some compensation.


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## loaded brush

goga said:


> Wal-Mart is big because of pricing, SW is big because of availability.. 7/365 till late, that alone requires some compensation.


Hit the nail right on the head. If Benjamin Moore had the locations and the store hours as Sherwin Williams does, Sherwin-Williams would have a difficult time staying open. But in that respect Sherwin-Williams outshines Benjamin Moore. I will work up to 40 miles from my house on average. I am never more than 10 or 15 minutes from a SW regardless of where my job is. Does not benefit me because I exclusively use Benjamin Moore, but they have really cornered the market on paint stores for hours and locations.


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## PACman

loaded brush said:


> Hit the nail right on the head. If Benjamin Moore had the locations and the store hours as Sherwin Williams does, Sherwin-Williams would have a difficult time staying open. But in that respect Sherwin-Williams outshines Benjamin Moore. I will work up to 40 miles from my house on average. I am never more than 10 or 15 minutes from a SW regardless of where my job is. Does not benefit me because I exclusively use Benjamin Moore, but they have really cornered the market on paint stores for hours and locations.


This is true. They have more stores by a long shot. But how do you think they pay for those stores?


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## SWPB

I like the idea of supporting the local moms & pops shops, so barring something out of the ordinary, I support the independent dealers. SW reminds me of Walmart . . . but ironically, Walmart seems to be getting their @sses handed to them by Amazon. I wonder if the online craze will ever impact paint? Scary thought . . .


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## getrex

You can order paint online but you are royally screwed if they messed it up somehow. I think that would severely curtail that from taking off.


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## gregplus

I am about to quit using it, sometimes paint is so dense while other times its like milk.. that density is not consistent..

Is it just me unlucky?


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## SWPB

gregplus said:


> I am about to quit using it, sometimes paint is so dense while other times its like milk.. that density is not consistent..
> 
> Is it just me unlucky?


It could depend on the amount of colorant. Universal Tint Colorants (UTCs) thin the paint as you add more. This is most notable in the deep and ultradeep base colors. And it's the sole difference between the UTCs and the Gennex system at BM. The Gennex patented system fortifies the paint since the colorant is embedded in resin. That's why if you paint out UTC on a color card, it won't completely dry (mud), whereas the Gennex is like a cured paint once it dries. Pretty cool stuff . . .


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## CK_68847

the paintman said:


> With all due respect I find it extremely hard to believe anyone is getting anything let alone promar 200 zero for 10 bucks nowadays. Even 14 is quite unlikely. From SWP especially. They are not in the mood to give away paint.
> 
> Surface conditioner is more than that. I think someone is jerking your chain.
> 
> I have a pretty good deal and I'm considerably north of 14


We get it below 14, and if it's a big enough job, we can get it around 11. We also buy a lot of 200 eggshell. Our speedhide price is comparable.


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## PACman

CK_68847 said:


> We get it below 14, and if it's a big enough job, we can get it around 11. We also buy a lot of 200 eggshell. Our speedhide price is comparable.


Just goes to show you that when you have enough leverage.....Sw suddenly understands exactly what their paint is worth! How they can get away with some of the prices they charge most painters is a crime as far as i am concerned. It all comes down to their principle of getting as much of a mark-up out of every customer that they can, instead of putting a price on their paint that is fair to them and to their customers.


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## CK_68847

Just goes to show you that when you have enough leverage.....Sw suddenly understands exactly what their paint is worth! How they can get away with some of the prices they charge most painters is a crime as far as i am concerned. It all comes down to their principle of getting as much of a mark-up out of every customer that they can, instead of putting a price on their paint that is fair to them and to their customers.[/QUOTE]

SW definitely screws the smaller painter and retail person. We are in the midwest. I tell most retail people to use Diamond Vogel. They are the most affordable. They sell Vantage around $20 dollars a gallon retail and its similar to 200 eggshell. SW likes to creep their prices up slowly and blame other factors until you whack them on a couple big jobs and all of a sudden they are able to lower them again. I know some people knock the 200 product, but I think it's solid. I think the overrated paint paint duration. Their best best in my view is their pre cat epoxy eggshell and semi gloss for interior.


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## A+HomeWork

So, BM never makes a profit.
All their products are like $20 a gallon to be fair to retail and contractors?
Top that off with BM products being superior to SW?
Don't know why we all don't go to BM. lain:


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## PACman

A+HomeWork said:


> So, BM never makes a profit.
> All their products are like $20 a gallon to be fair to retail and contractors?
> Top that off with BM products being superior to SW?
> Don't know why we all don't go to BM. lain:


BM makes their profit when they sell their product to the dealers. What it gets sold for after that is up to the dealer and doesn't effect BM's profits at all. SW's mark-ups are all internal, as all of their stores are company owned. Sw has to pay for all the overhead associated with those stores, and BM relies on the dealers for that function so they have no overhead at all at the retail level like SW does. It's two entirely different scenarios, so it's hard to compare the to in this respect. BM makes less per gallon as a company but their overhead is much, much lower.


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## getrex

So all we need to do is get a $50,000 tinting machine and order directly!


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## PACman

getrex said:


> So all we need to do is get a $50,000 tinting machine and order directly!


If it were only that easy. They are pretty particular about who they sign up as dealers. You have to have a pretty nice store and a lot of fluid assets before they will open you up as a new independent dealer.


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## getrex

I can fill up a lot of barrels with water. Technically... that counts as fluid assets. 😂


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## PACman

getrex said:


> I can fill up a lot of barrels with water. Technically... that counts as fluid assets. 😂


Maybe in Chattanooga.


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## getrex

You think food coloring and some clay will work for colorant? I'm on a low budget right now. It just needs to be better than Behr. Maybe add some hot sauce to knock down the VOCs and some Elmer's glue so I can call it a one-coat paint & primer in one.


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## PACman

getrex said:


> You think food coloring and some clay will work for colorant? I'm on a low budget right now. It just needs to be better than Behr. Maybe add some hot sauce to knock down the VOCs and some Elmer's glue so I can call it a one-coat paint & primer in one.


you're on the right track! Jello works as a resin in a pinch.


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## PACman

And while we're on the subject of paint hacks, did you know you can make a pretty darn good stain out of Rit dyes and rubbing alcohol?


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