# When to sand? And other questions...



## PaintedSurface (Mar 24, 2009)

I searched the forum and I just can't find posts that answer my questions. (maybe I took only 3 hours to look at 2 years worth of forum) I don't think I should create any more threads so I will just list my questions in this thread. 

1. When is it necessary to prepare the surface by sanding? 

2. When is it necessary to prepare surface by primer? 

3. Is a 1/2 nap or 3/8 better for slightly rough surface? 

4. Are wool roller covers much better than other material covers?

5. What is the best way to paint baseboards?

6. What kind of tools do you use? (I know you can get away with paint roller tray and a paint brush but what other tools make it easier.)

I think that will save some time looking through the forum. Thank you for all the answers and patience with these basic questions in advance.


----------



## TooledUp (May 17, 2008)

Can we play a game? I answer your questions with a question.

So you're either a home owner or not a real painter, right?


----------



## 1977corey (Feb 27, 2009)

TooledUp said:


> Can we play a game? I answer your questions with a question.
> 
> So you're either a home owner or not a real painter, right?


fish n' chips.......tally ho? lol :euro:


----------



## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

This forum is for professional painters. We apologize but we aren't keen on spending our time training people how to paint.

Most of us have 1 to 3 decades in learning through blood sweat and tears and practice what does and doesn't work, and how to go about all aspects of painting.

That experience and knowledge is what we get paid to apply. Sometimes we even apply a little paint. 

Our apologies if this is a disappointment. Please bear in mind however that being a professional painter is a prerequisite to participate in these forums.

Thank you for your understanding.


----------



## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

What regular poster signed up under a new name and posted this troll?
Here fishy fishy <*>>><


----------



## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

1977corey said:


> fish n' chips.......tally ho? lol :euro:


Someone wants to see this locked I presume?


----------



## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

ProWallGuy said:


> Someone wants to see this locked I presume?


Please don't! I can see this will be an informative, helpful thread!












we need something to amuse since highfibre left!


----------



## mistcoat (Apr 21, 2007)

Last Craftsman said:


> This forum is for professional painters. We apologize but we aren't keen on spending our time training people how to paint.
> 
> Most of us have 1 to 3 decades in learning through blood sweat and tears and practice what does and doesn't work, and how to go about all aspects of painting.
> 
> ...


That is the nicest way I have heard someone tell someone to O. F. Offski

What a pleasure :yes:


----------



## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

99 bottles of beer on the wall, 99 bottles of beer.Take one down and pass it around, 98 bottles of beer on the wall.


----------



## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

RCP said:


> we need something to amuse since highfibre left!


Hey RC, congrats! Just heard on the news that Utah is among the lest
affected by the economy. Carrying a 0% unemployment increases.







were not worthy








So, how's it feel carrying the weight of AIG and all the other bailers bonuses?


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

I kind of want to hear the answers. #1 and #2 especially.


----------



## TooledUp (May 17, 2008)

DeanV said:


> What regular poster signed up under a new name and posted this troll?
> Here fishy fishy <*>>><


Try and think of somebody who is always asking "what is best", which do you use and why" and those types of Q's. You might find the answer.



jack pauhl said:


> I kind of want to hear the answers. #1 and #2 especially.



98 bottles of beer on the wall, 98 bottles of beer.Take one down and pass it around, 97 bottles of beer on the wall.


----------



## justme_T (Mar 24, 2009)

I would like to help to answer your questions:
However none of the answers are one liners and will all change depending on what you are working on... 
If you are looking for easy, hire someone.


----------



## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

justme_T said:


> I would like to help to answer your questions:
> However none of the answers are one liners and will all change depending on what you are working on...
> If you are looking for easy, hire someone.


Best 1st post ever!


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

ProWallGuy said:


> Best 1st post ever!


Servin' it up.


----------



## TooledUp (May 17, 2008)

RCP said:


> we need something to amuse since highfibre left!


Did he leave? I know he hasn't been around for a while but I didn't see him throw a dummy outa the pram or anything.


----------



## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

ProWallGuy said:


> Best 1st post ever!


Get that man a beer!


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

WisePainter said:


> Get that man a beer!


lmao. nice work. Goes downy satiny smooth. Damnit, now I wont get the answers to #1 and #2


----------



## PaintedSurface (Mar 24, 2009)

I must have miss judged the point of the forum. This forum should be called "lots of invaluable information", if you have been painting for so long why bother showing up on forum? You must already know everything there is about painting.


----------



## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

97 bottles of beer on the wall, 97 bottles of beer.Take one down and pass it around, 96 bottles of beer on the wall.


----------



## TooledUp (May 17, 2008)

PaintedSurface said:


> I must have miss judged the point of the forum. This forum should be called "lots of invaluable information", if you have been painting for so long why bother showing up on forum? You must already know everything there is about painting.


Don't take it to heart. Sometimes hacks come along looking for advice and sometimes homeowners do too - There's a forum for DIY posts here. Good luck with your quest :thumbsup:

96 bottles of beer on the wall, 96 bottles of beer. Take one down and pass it around, 95 bottles of beer on the wall.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

PaintedSurface said:


> I must have miss judged the point of the forum. This forum should be called "lots of invaluable information", if you have been painting for so long why bother showing up on forum? You must already know everything there is about painting.


Good point. 
#1 and #2 are too complicated to give a quick reply. 
#3 1/2 to 3/4
#4 I would like to know what wool covers are for. 
#5 Top edge down
#6 I think hopping around on this forum under TOOLS would be a good start to see what guys are using.


----------



## 1977corey (Feb 27, 2009)

PaintedSurface said:


> I must have miss judged the point of the forum. This forum should be called "lots of invaluable information", if you have been painting for so long why bother showing up on forum? You must already know everything there is about painting.


yeah well at least this forum was never called "post the most easiest, most-common sensed, obvious lack of experience, questions"


----------



## TooledUp (May 17, 2008)

1977corey said:


> yeah well at least this forum was never called "post the most easiest, most-common sensed, obvious lack of experience, questions"


You wouldn't know it though when you read some of the posts on here :thumbup:


----------



## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

PaintedSurface said:


> I must have miss judged the point of the forum. This forum should be called "lots of invaluable information", if you have been painting for so long why bother showing up on forum? You must already know everything there is about painting.


Awsome second post.

Use the search feature or go to the DIY forum you will find all your answers there.


----------



## slickshift (Apr 8, 2007)

PaintedSurface said:


> 1. When is it necessary to prepare the surface by sanding?
> 
> 2. When is it necessary to prepare surface by primer?
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, aside from #1 (which is "Most of the time a nice scuff sand is a good idea"), the other answers are for the most part "It Depends"

It depends on the application, it depends on the products, it depends on your needs and desires, it depends on your particular technique
It depends on what's up there now, it depends on how long it's been there, it depends on whether there's 40 year old orange and brown 3" shag rug on the floor and furniture made out of old TV Guides with Archie Bunker on the covers in the way, and it depends on if the walls have that lovely sheen only arrived at by cooking bacon for breakfast and lunch, and sometimes dinner, every day since 1957 or if it's new construction (and whether or not the carpies and rockers have been cooking bacon every day)

It depends if it's a burnt out husk loaded with water damage
It depends if it's 13 year old builder's paint, or worse...just primer that leaves that lovely white swatch whenever anything touches it
It depends on how well (or not) any/all previous coatings were applied, how many layers, what's under there...did someone at one point use oil on the trim?...was the successive coating properly applied....or even the proper coating? Is ready to just fall off when you start?....any pealing, cracking, alligatoring?...someone not prime before painting the stained trim?...someone not seal after wallpaper removal?

It depends if the H/O has had 17 incontinent cats, or an under exercised dog that's taken more than a few nibbles out of the trim
It depends if it's a 2-bedroom apartment that has had 17 persons living in it just long enough to leave about $1742.39 worth of unpaid electric and phone bills piled up in the mail slot, and enough unsubs on the walls to give CSI, NCIS, the Criminal Minds crew, and that Bones lady headaches

It depends on what you are willing to invest in for equipment, that will make the most of your time, with your particular needs and planned type of jobs, the skill and cost of your available labor (even if it's you, you've got skill and cost issues/goals, we all do)
It depends on if you are committed to providing quality painting services in a professional manner, wanting to start yet another Another Laid Off Guy With A Brush Part-Time Painting Company, or are a DIYer wanting to re-paint the den
(if it's the last case I'd suggest heading over to www.DIYChatroom.com, as this site here is for professional painters to interact, rather than supply DIYers with How-To info)

I'm really not attempting to be rude, it's just that that's the way it is...pretty much...there's no easy answers for most of your questions

Oh, and for the wool; Yes...but whether or not they are right for you and your products...(...wait for it....wait....)...it depends


----------



## painttofish (Aug 28, 2007)

couldn't have said it better


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Good post. See that is what I was trying to avoid typing out.


----------



## 3INCHCORONA (Mar 19, 2009)

does anyone paint their baseboards last, am i the last guy on the planet.


----------



## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

I paint base last.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

3INCHCORONA said:


> does anyone paint their baseboards last, am i the last guy on the planet.


I do under certain circumstances. I think its cleaner to cut trim to walls.


----------



## MDRocket (Feb 3, 2009)

PaintedSurface said:


> I must have miss judged the point of the forum. This forum should be called "lots of invaluable information", if you have been painting for so long why bother showing up on forum? You must already know everything there is about painting.


There's a point.....your just not getting it. We show up here to get drunk and tell war stories.


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

3INCHCORONA said:


> does anyone paint their baseboards last, am i the last guy on the planet.


Just about always. No actually, always.


----------



## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I never cut base last. Tape it to protect from spatter, free hand all other lines. I think it is cleaner to cut wall to trim.


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

DeanV said:


> I never cut base last. Tape it to protect from spatter, free hand all other lines. I think it is cleaner to cut wall to trim.


It is, except for base.


----------



## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

NO, no it is not. Base has a thinner top edge, therefore it is more difficult to paint baseboards last because the brush does not fit it as well. 

Clearly, VP, you should rethink your entire approach to painting a room. Do not make me lower your ranking to DIY.:jester:


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

DeanV said:


> NO, no it is not. Base has a thinner top edge, therefore it is more difficult to paint baseboards last because the brush does not fit it as well.
> 
> Clearly, VP, you should rethink your entire approach to painting a room. Do not make me lower your ranking to DIY.:jester:


Dean I'm with VP on this. The trim cut needs to dominate on base. Do you need a sharper brush?  j/k


----------



## 3INCHCORONA (Mar 19, 2009)

oh no ive created a monster.


----------



## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Hey RC, congrats! Just heard on the news that Utah is among the lest
> affected by the economy. Carrying a 0% unemployment increases.
> 
> 
> ...


Utah is behind on everything! Not just beer!

The area I am in was one of the fastest growing areas, just ranked #10, but now there are tons of empty houses!


----------



## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

RCP said:


> Utah is behind on everything! Not just beer!
> 
> The area I am in was one of the fastest growing areas, just ranked #10, but now there are tons of empty houses!


Ya I figured, News is all talk. Made me want to move there for a minute.


----------



## 3INCHCORONA (Mar 19, 2009)

ONCE UPON A TIME 
There was this guy who got hired by a painting company. 
He couldnt paint worth a ****. 
So the boss kept it simple and made him tape the top of the 
finished baseboards before cutting.
The boss knew he couldnt freehand baseboards, 
and figured it was worth the extra time to tape, 
then to let the kid try freehanding it 
6 moths later and the guy who got hired decide 
he could go of on his own and start a buisness.

and the guy taped happily ever since.

THE END


i bet the majority of guys that tape like that learned from someone else.
its a quality control measure.


----------



## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

3INCHCORONA said:


> ONCE UPON A TIME
> There was this guy who got hired by a painting company.
> He couldnt paint worth a ****.
> So the boss kept it simple and made him tape the top of the
> ...



Nope, I insisted to my old boss that we tape the base because he was a firm paint all trim first (and do not use any tape, period), then paint walls and Graham paint spatters quite a bit and adheres as well or better than any other paint I have used (an as soon as it is dry, not next week), so the spatter had to be controlled.

I think tape dominates in new construction and spread to repaint work from there.


----------



## PaintedSurface (Mar 24, 2009)

Alright I get it now. No real answers but I got few laughs. I guess I'm off to the DIY department. Maybe even buy some books about painting, are there any not biast ones and not written by someone who has been a painter for 6 months and thinks is ready to write a book? Thanks for participating in the thread.


----------



## timhag (Sep 30, 2007)

PaintedSurface said:


> Alright I get it now. No real answers but I got few laughs. I guess I'm off to the DIY department. Maybe even buy some books about painting, are there any not biast ones and not written by someone who has been a painter for 6 months and thinks is ready to write a book? Thanks for participating in the thread.


I guess you didn't read post number 26 did you?


----------



## slickshift (Apr 8, 2007)

PaintedSurface said:


> ...books about painting, are there any not biast ones and not written by someone who has been a painter for 6 months and thinks is ready to write a book?


Good question, and an astute one also
Most of the ones I've seen are written by someone who has maybe painted something, or a few somethings...if your lucky
Many are simply relaying bad advice they heard or saw somewhere...and even just making up stuff

Perhaps someone else here has seen one that's not actually terrible and can post up


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

I can throw something together real quick.


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

What we need is a knowledgeable member with a blog...


----------



## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

That would be perfect VP. Genius. Maybe even have RSS feeds built in so it can automatically update on smart phones with the latest up to the second info. on the painting world.


----------



## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

DeanV said:


> I never cut base last. Tape it to protect from spatter, free hand all other lines. I think it is cleaner to cut wall to trim.


:thumbup::yes::clap:


I am overjoyed to know that someone else understands this absolutely irrefutable cosmic truth.

We are right about this and everyone else is WRONG! :whistling2: 

When I say wrong, I don't just mean tomaato/tomato wrong, I mean potato/_potatoe_ wrong.

I mean the kind of wrong that when the trumpets blare, God will be standing there admonishing those who understood his cosmic truths, and those who cut the baseboard last, and who did not cut wall to trim will be hurtling towards their fiery doom!

:furious:


----------



## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

PaintedSurface said:


> Alright I get it now. No real answers but I got few laughs. I guess I'm off to the DIY department. Maybe even buy some books about painting, are there any not biast ones and not written by someone who has been a painter for 6 months and thinks is ready to write a book? Thanks for participating in the thread.


My butt called, it needs you to kiss it.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Last Craftsman said:


> :thumbup::yes::clap:
> 
> 
> I am overjoyed to know that someone else understands this absolutely irrefutable cosmic truth.
> ...


You got a pic of this 'look' you speak of?


----------



## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


> You got a pic of this 'look' you speak of?



What do you mean "look"? I didn't use this word. You mean the look of a cutline where walls have been cut into trim as opposed to trim being cut into the walls?


----------



## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

DeanV said:


> I never cut base last. Tape it to protect from spatter, free hand all other lines. I think it is cleaner to cut wall to trim.



I paint my trim, then mask it, cut and paint the wall, remove tape, get paid.

:thumbsup:


----------



## 1977corey (Feb 27, 2009)

ummm, how the hell do you expect to have nice tape lines if you paint trim last?
maybe apartment jobs........
maybe an accubrush?
maybe......some clitorisdrops?


----------



## timhag (Sep 30, 2007)

1977corey said:


> ummm, how the hell do you expect to have nice tape lines if you paint trim last?


Ummm, 80% of us don't use tape.


----------



## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

WisePainter said:


> I paint my trim, then mask it, cut and paint the wall, remove tape, get paid.
> 
> :thumbsup:


This is the way God intended it to be. Only the elect are capable of comprehending it though. :whistling2:

Your comment is not accurate though, it should read:

I paint my trim, then mask it, cut and paint the wall, remove tape, get paid _MORE!_

Because of the vast degree of time it saves and other benefits.

Let the mortals and the purists have their pride...well take the CASH!


----------



## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

timhag said:


> Ummm, 80% of us don't use tape.



This is a good example of the majority being WRONG!


----------



## 1977corey (Feb 27, 2009)

timhag said:


> Ummm, 80% of us don't use tape.


wow really? i dont use tape when i'm rehabbing turds downtown, or am in an older apt complex,etc.
I always use tape for most things, and usually dont only if i have run out of tape.
I also cant stand an H.O. making comments about not using tape.
Hey, to each his own. I do work in Nebraska, have only ever done work in nebraska/iowa,and we tape over here, so if thats how you boys back east roll, well....:whistling2:


----------



## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

1977corey said:


> wow really? i dont use tape when i'm rehabbing turds downtown, or am in an older apt complex,etc.
> I always use tape for most things, and usually dont only if i have run out of tape.
> I also cant stand an H.O. making comments about not using tape.
> Hey, to each his own. I do work in Nebraska, have only ever done work in nebraska/iowa,and we tape over here, so if thats how you boys back east roll, well....:whistling2:



F&*king "_turd_" jobs. 
I will take them during extremely lean times, but I always prefer a contract that requires that at least the base be masked with 1 1/2" blue tape. 

Preferred HO's never need ask where the tape is when I am on the job.



because it is included in the bid...tee hee.


----------



## OverSpray (Mar 13, 2009)

I would apply plenty of bondo to the wall and if it gets hard ,pole sand with #220 grit using your pole sander, That should keep you busy and off the computer !!!!


----------



## cy hundley (Aug 17, 2008)

Ceiling, trim, tape base, wall.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Last Craftsman said:


> What do you mean "look"? I didn't use this word. You mean the look of a cutline where walls have been cut into trim as opposed to trim being cut into the walls?


Yeah, the look is different. Would you agree?


----------



## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


> Yeah, the look is different. Would you agree?



Yes the look is different. I agree. I gave up worrying about it ages ago. 

What people want to see when they walk into a room is straight lines. They aren't going to break out a micrometer and measure the millage of the depth of wallpaint at the cutline or a maginifying glass and determine that there would be a finer edge if it had been cut trim to wall.

Cutting trim to wall is so much slower for a variety of reasons not just one.

Not the least of which is that it means the trim is not getting sprayed, but rather painted by hand.

And even when I do have to paint the trim by hand, I still paint the trim first then cut the wall to the trim.

I even used to worry that the look of a painted edge where wall has been cut in looks a little thicker when you use tape to cut your lines, than when you just cut it with a brush.

It does look a tiny bit thicker.

But no one looks that closely. People look at the quality of the finish on the trim work, and the straightness of the cutlines, and the eveness and coverage of the wallpaint.

Let me put it this way. You could bring a thousand customers into their brand new painted house. And NONE of them would walk up to the cutline and get their face a foot away from it and say "The edge of the paint looks a little thick"

Unless of course you TELL them that there is something "bad" about that look. Then they will think they don't want it because a professional told them it isn't pro.

You create your own reality. And you create your customer's reality.

I would do your customers a favor and stop charging them a lot extra to achieve a different look that all happens inside of 1/8th of a millimeter.


----------



## 1977corey (Feb 27, 2009)

jack pauhl said:


> Good point.
> #1 and #2 are too complicated to give a quick reply.
> #3 1/2 to 3/4
> #4 I would like to know what wool covers are for.
> ...


......wool covers are for professionals:whistling2:


----------

