# Sikkens



## dcwp26 (Jun 27, 2013)

Have house that have been hired to bid out that has years of Sikkens stain and cetol 1 on horizontal cedar clapboard. Without have to strip down because tried that and it is too thick has anyone used Emulsa Bond and a solid paint to cover and how did it hold up?? Most of the house is not peeling. Thanks


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## smakmauz (Feb 17, 2013)

Personally I wouldn't paint over sikkens unless I primed it with a great oil primer first....maybe even sand and then oil prime. Even then I would do a tester first to see how it went.

Did they use the whole 3 part system? The 1,the 23 and then the clear coat? They don't really do it that way any more but if they have had the product on there for a long time there's a good chance it has all three. 

That system builds up to a really tough alkyd finish.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

dcwp26 said:


> Have house that have been hired to bid out that has years of Sikkens stain and cetol 1 on horizontal cedar clapboard. Without have to strip down because tried that and it is too thick has anyone used Emulsa Bond and a solid stain to cover and how did it hold up?? Most of the house is not peeling. Thanks


You say you tried to strip the Sikkens, tell me about that. How did you do it?


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## dcwp26 (Jun 27, 2013)

Yes it is the 3 part system. Sanding it went too slow, it will cost an arm in a leg to sand--surface is just too hard. Pricing on glass blasting cost prohibited, nearly $18,000 for 3000 sqft. Just trying to think outside the box.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

If most of the home is not peeling then lightly sand the bad areas. Any areas to raw wood feather a coat of Cetol 1, or Log & Siding, then follow with a coat of Cetol Maintenance on the whole home. This is an easy fix.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

NCPaint1 said:


> If most of the home is not peeling then lightly sand the bad areas. Any areas to raw wood feather a coat of Cetol 1, or Log & Siding, then follow with a coat of Cetol Maintenance on the whole home. This is an easy fix.


It sounds like he is switching to solid color though.


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## dcwp26 (Jun 27, 2013)

Yes that is what they want to do. Cover with a solid paint over the sikkens. I have heard that Flood EB is a great option to help the paint stick. They want out of sikkens...

Here is my theory---if the base surface is solid not breaking down then a solid colored paint mixed with Flood ED should stick to the base surface even if it is sikkens. The areas that area breaking down would be sanded but most is in good condition. Paint being that is does not absorb into the wood but stays on the surface should be fine--correct?


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

dcwp26 said:


> Here is my theory---if the base surface is solid not breaking down then a solid colored paint mixed with Flood ED should stick to the base surface even if it is sikkens. The areas that area breaking down would be sanded but most is in good condition. Paint being that is does not absorb into the wood but stays on the surface should be fine--correct?








If the paint bonded well it would be fine.... Its not going to be easy to get a good bond on Sikkens high build stuff. At the least I would think thorough scuff sanding would be required on the Sikkens in good shape. I wouldn't count on EB alone to make a good bond. Maybe Sikkens Rubol solid would be more suited to going over it since the resins are similar. 

If your going to use a latex top coat, I would imagine a bonding primer would be needed.


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## smakmauz (Feb 17, 2013)

The 3part system is a monster. I wouldn't warranty a paint job on it unless it was scuffed and primed with a long oil. That top coat is is crazy stuff. Now they just say one coat of cetol 1 and two coats of 23 but they used to have a clear coat as well which is now what they call window and door. I did a high end job where we had to match some new beams on an exterior and had to use sikkens cetol 1 system and man...nutty stuff. Just to see how good it was I took a heat gun to an old piece of the rotten beam to try and strip it off and it actually burnt the wood underneath but left the clear coat in tact....a little discolored but otherwise not damaged too much. Don't ask me how they accomplished that...

Point is, unless they want to pay you to do that right, stay away. Or tell them that there would be no warranty.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

I believe to recoat Sikkens with Sikkens they say to wash with tsp and rinse. Not sure why recoat with paint would be much different. I would probably clean well, use a primer like BM 046 superior primer, and topcoat.


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## smakmauz (Feb 17, 2013)

Recoating with sikkens is different because of the solvents they use in it. They've got solvents or acids in the product that make it bond to itself. Normal paint products don't have anything like what they use. I know this because I had to coat the beams I did inside a garage and the fumes coming off of that stuff made my eyes burn and tear up like crazy. Definitely not the normal petroleum and grain solvents used in normal oil coatings.


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## TrueColors (Jul 30, 2010)

smakmauz said:


> Recoating with sikkens is different because of the solvents they use in it. They've got solvents or acids in the product that make it bond to itself. Normal paint products don't have anything like what they use. I know this because I had to coat the beams I did inside a garage and the fumes coming off of that stuff made my eyes burn and tear up like crazy. Definitely not the normal petroleum and grain solvents used in normal oil coatings.


I was applying sikkens cetol 2-3 yesterday on a exterior. That stuff is pretty potent. My eyes were watering also. Smells like moth balls.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

The cetol maintainance clear is even stronger smelling. 

The 123 system is the longest lasting, best looking high build stain that I've ever seen. Not many products are even in the same league.
Not so sure about the newer stuff...the 'log and siding' seems to be doing pretty good so far. 

They used to make an exterior clear called TGL satin. That stuff was the bomb. The clear now is called 'door and window I think. Not sure if its the same though.


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## dcwp26 (Jun 27, 2013)

Thanks for all the input!!! A lot to digest and think about.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

joshmays1976 said:


> The cetol maintainance clear is even stronger smelling.
> 
> The 123 system is the longest lasting, best looking high build stain that I've ever seen. Not many products are even in the same league.
> Not so sure about the newer stuff...the 'log and siding' seems to be doing pretty good so far.
> ...


Log and Siding is great, its similar to the 1&23plus, EXCEPT its higher solids, and a 2 coat product (same product) VS the 1&23plus which is a 3 coat system, (2 products). The Cetol Maintenance can be used over either system as a maintenance coat. Its clear and brings back the sheen with more UV absorbers and no pigment to darken the existing color, it makes it more vibrant but not darker.

The TGL was replaced by Door & Window, very similar, higher solids, same uses.


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## smakmauz (Feb 17, 2013)

TrueColors said:


> I was applying sikkens cetol 2-3 yesterday on a exterior. That stuff is pretty potent. My eyes were watering also. Smells like moth balls.



MOTH BALLS!!! EXACTLY!! I thought I was the only one who thought that.

Sikkens is pretty killer for durability but I don't really like the way it looks personally. It makes the wood look fake to me. The clear isn't really totally clear...its kinda hazy. Looks pretty good from a distance but when you get right up on it...it just looks like plastic wood.


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## Carl B (Aug 18, 2021)

dcwp26 said:


> Have house that have been hired to bid out that has years of Sikkens stain and cetol 1 on horizontal cedar clapboard. Without have to strip down because tried that and it is too thick has anyone used Emulsa Bond and a solid paint to cover and how did it hold up?? Most of the house is not peeling. Thanks


Did you ever try the Emulsa Bond, and did it work?


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