# Sprayer Kicks Breaker



## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

My Titan 440I had an issue today that I'm hoping someone here might have some experience with. It kept kicking the breaker in the panel (not on the sprayer unit). It builds pressure fine, but once I start to spray it trips the breaker when the machine kicks in to maintain the pressure. I tried switching extension cords and even went straight in to the receptacle with no changes. Tried different receptacles also with no changes. It works fine when priming and running material thru the gun with no tip, so the issue is somewhere in the pressure control maybe? Any suggestions? Thanks.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Do you mean the internal breaker? Are you able to monitor the pressure while spraying? Don't know the answer but the weakest link is almost always the chinese transducer in these things... would also check the breaker its only a $10 part.


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Do you mean the internal breaker? Are you able to monitor the pressure while spraying? Don't know the answer but the weakest link is almost always the chinese transducer in these things... would also check the breaker its only a $10 part.


Not the internal breaker, the 20a circuit breaker in the house panel.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Gwarel said:


> cocomonkeynuts said:
> 
> 
> > Do you mean the internal breaker? Are you able to monitor the pressure while spraying? Don't know the answer but the weakest link is almost always the chinese transducer in these things... would also check the breaker its only a $10 part.
> ...


You tried it on another circuit? How can it pull 20+amp when the internal breaker is 12amp?




Does it happen as soon you let go of the trigger to pressurize or after the pump starts working.


General trouble shooting.. Open it up and make sure its not covered in paint and fan are clean. Check the transducer is functioning correctly and not overworking the motor. Check control board for obvious signs of damage (burned looking parts, smell etc).


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Were there and other loads on the circuit? Like halogen lights, vacuum cleaners, refrigerators, etc.?


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> You tried it on another circuit? How can it pull 20+amp when the internal breaker is 12amp?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't know how to insert answers to the separate questions so while we're at it if someone can give me some insight I'd appreciate that too!
Q1- As to the question of why the internal 12a doesn't kick but the 20a does, that has me perplexed.
Q2- The machine builds pressure fine, but as soon as I start working it kicks the 20a at the house panel.
Q3- Where is the transducer? I'll open it up and take a look, Thanks.


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

CApainter said:


> Were there and other loads on the circuit? Like halogen lights, vacuum cleaners, refrigerators, etc.?


Nothing on the circuit but me......


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

The following picture is a schematic of a Titan 440i electrical circuit that I took the liberty of coloring and adding a few descriptions (because I do this kind of stuff for fun lol!).

Based on the over current problems described by the OP, I offer the following observations and questions:
1. The motor appears to possibly be a 3/4 DC motor w/brushes-model 704-277
2. The Electronic control Board appears to be 120 VAC
3. The rectifier converts 120 VAC from the control board, to 120 VDC serving the DC motor only

Questions:
1. Could dirty DC motor brushes cause excessive current draw because of voltage drop?
2. Since the transducer converts pressures to an electrical signal, is it controlling AC voltage?
3. How did the 12 Amp breaker on the AC side of the circuit get bypassed before tripping the main 20 Amp breaker? Could it be bad?

Speculation:
1. The Transducer is not sending the correct electronic signal to the TP3 switch that I think modulates the voltage to the rectifier. 
2. The DC motor brushes are dirty, causing excessive voltage drop, arcing, and high amp draw.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Before trying to perform the equivalent of brain upon surgery on the internal components of your sprayer, consider the similar issue I had like this in the distant past. I solved it by getting a really heavy duty extension cord (I know you said you tried switching ECs but not sure what that actually entailed) to run my sprayer - a Graco 440. 

Too small of an extension combined with too long a distance will cause breakers to go off. Although I purchased a fifty footer, I went with 12/3 wire which made up for the length of the cord in decent capacity. Never had a problem with breakers since. 

Sometimes the easiest and most obvious thing to check can resolve the issue... sometimes..


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

RH said:


> Before trying to perform the equivalent of brain upon surgery on the internal components of your sprayer, consider the similar issue I had like this in the distant past. I solved it by getting a really heavy duty extension cord (I know you said you tried switching ECs but not sure what that actually entailed) to run my sprayer - a Graco 440.
> 
> Too small of an extension combined with too long a distance will cause breakers to go off. Although I purchased a fifty footer, I went with 12/3 wire which made up for the length of the cord in decent capacity. Never had a problem with breakers since.
> 
> Sometimes the easiest and most obvious thing to check can resolve the issue... sometimes..



! was going to offer the same advice, but the OP said he plugged the unit cord directly into the outlet and still tripped the 20 AMP breaker at the sub panel.


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

I have the same problem with my 440i now on some jobs. Seems when I am plugged into any GFI circuit it will trip. I just plug into any regular outlet and it is fine, I have never tripped the actual circuit breaker. If you are then that circuit is a really tiny circuit, so try another. The 440 should not put any more load than a blender would.


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

Might try changing out the cord on the entire machine.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

CApainter said:


> ! was going to offer the same advice, but the OP said he plugged the unit cord directly into the outlet and still tripped the 20 AMP breaker at the sub panel.


Yeah, I missed that part. Oh well.


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

*The Answer*

The job I have been working on that I had the sprayer issue is a new house. I am doing the finish work for a friend that has the contract, so I called him and told him the problem I was having and asked him to bring a sprayer over to paint the built in and mantle that I was working on when I had the problem with my 440I. He brought a 390 over and said that his unit was doing the same thing with the breakers on another job. What a coincidence right? We plugged it in to the same circuit with the same result, the breaker kicked when he started spraying. The project manager happened to be there and told us that the latest code required an AFCI breaker, which is Arc Fault. So the newer breaker is obviously much more sensitive. We used a GFCI receptacle in the bathroom and the sprayer worked fine. I will run my 440 on my circuit at home as soon as I get a chance just to make sure, but I'm pretty confident that the AFCI breaker is the culprit.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

How wonderful. In government’s never ending quest to look after us more and more so we don’t hurt ourselves, they are requiring systems be designed so they won’t function.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

That would make sense why it wasn't tripping the internal breaker of the unit before tripping the 20 amp breaker at the sub panel. I'm interested to know if the GFCI will have any affect given it is still served by the AFCI breaker at the sub panel. If it is the AFCI, you could always carry a non AFCI 20 amp square D breaker to use while you need to spray.

Disclaimer: Compromising building codes can lead to gigantic liabilities.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

RH said:


> How wonderful. In government’s never ending quest to look after us more and more so we don’t hurt ourselves, they are requiring systems be designed so they won’t function.


I wonder how many of those "improved" building codes were lobbied by insurance companies who knew that Johnny Jackhole of All Trades would be up in an attic somewhere, trying to figure out how to wire up that fancy new commemorative ceiling fan with the fifty two inch fabric blades honoring the Wright Brothers first flight. 

Living Lights, in Pothole Indiana, had them at full retail for $297.00, while Walmart had them on sale for $87.00. Only twenty seven miles away. No brainer.


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

RH said:


> How wonderful. In government’s never ending quest to look after us more and more so we don’t hurt ourselves, they are requiring systems be designed so they won’t function.


Yep, I had to have arc fault breakers installed in an addition....you'd be lucky to get the room vacuumed without tripping the breaker 10 times before finishing! Pulled the breakers after inspection.


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

CApainter said:


> Living Lights, in Pothole Indiana, had them at full retail for $297.00, while Walmart had them on sale for $87.00. Only twenty seven miles away. No brainer.



We got ours on Wayfare during their blowout clearance.....$349.95 (free shipping). Wife saw it and instantly became a must have, even though we only have 6 1/2 foot ceilings. We do a lot of ducking now as we got two...one for each room! Livin' large, my friend, livin 'large.

Pimpin' ain't easy!


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## Nelly1212 (Dec 15, 2021)

Canadian electrician here, just throwing in my two cents, as the painter on my site today complained about the same thing. Was just double checking to verify that I was following the right logic in thinking that it was a shitty motor tripping the arc fault. 

For those complaining about arc fault breakers, the reason why they're required by code now is due to shitty tradesmen and ignorant homeowners putting too long of screws into studs, and nicking the wire run through it. This burned down houses so often that they had to invent an entirely new breaker to solve the issue. 

An arc fault breaker detects an electrical arc, such as sparks generated between the hot and the ground when they get close to touching. They also will trip for welders (if you happen to have one under 20a), or for badly built motors that spark internally. Don't blame the breaker, blame the manufacturer of your tool for using a garbage motor.


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## Nelly1212 (Dec 15, 2021)

Additionally, the way the code book is written in Canada (not sure about NEC), all receptacles are required to be arc fault protected, with the following exceptions:

-kitchen counter receptacles
-fridge / freezer receptacles
-sump pump receptacles
-circuits where all receptacles are gfci protected

Find one of these receptacles to plug the sprayer into, and you should be good to go


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## Knobbe (Mar 14, 2021)

CApainter said:


> I wonder how many of those "improved" building codes were lobbied by insurance companies who knew that Johnny Jackhole of All Trades would be up in an attic somewhere, trying to figure out how to wire up that fancy new commemorative ceiling fan with the fifty two inch fabric blades honoring the Wright Brothers first flight.
> 
> Living Lights, in Pothole Indiana, had them at full retail for $297.00, while Walmart had them on sale for $87.00. Only twenty seven miles away. No brainer.


sounds like you speak from experience? LOL!
Is there a Pothole Indiana?


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