# Only cause it comes up on here



## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

What's the difference between a sheet of drywall or a door or a peice of base or whatever in a $5 million dollar home or a $250 thousand dollar home? Do you prep/paint em any different? 

I think a peice of drywall is a peice of drywall and a chunk of wood is a chunk of wood. Doesn't matter what it is attached to. 
Is what I think about it. They are just parts, what it is a part of doesn't matter, how I paint it or how I feel about it when I do,
Job satisfaction? Or whatever. I could not care less.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

The expectations and levels of finish quality go up with more expensive homes. Especially millwork. Also typically need to be even more careful with surface protection. Higher risk = hopefully higher reward.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Oden said:


> What's the difference between a sheet of drywall or a door or a peice of base or whatever in a $5 million dollar home or a $250 thousand dollar home? Do you prep/paint em any different?
> 
> I think a peice of drywall is a peice of drywall and a chunk of wood is a chunk of wood. Doesn't matter what it is attached to.
> Is what I think about it. They are just parts, what it is a part of doesn't matter, how I paint it or how I feel about it when I do,
> Job satisfaction? Or whatever. I could not care less.


Damon pretty well summed it up.

Maybe you couldn't care less...but the client might.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

Gough said:


> Damon pretty well summed it up. Maybe you couldn't care less...but the client might.


Aaaah see.
Wrong assumption. Which is what I don't get. A home is a home, same sheet of drywall, needs to look 'right' anywhere.
Some clients are more picky than others this I get, but a acceptable finish isn't changing with the price tag of the address. Joe the plumber points at a gritty wall it's a gritty wall same as if the CEO of some law firm may pick out. Paint splatter on the Formica counter is as unacceptable as on the granite... So on

And not for nothing Joe the plumber is likely to have a keener eye, just sayin.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Many eons ago, I was hanging some despicable wallpaper in a lower income neighborhood than was my usual milieu. By despicable I mean it was of design and construction that fought me every step of the way - lightweight toilet tissue paper with areas of sand adhered to it, so not only would it easily rip and tear, but the sand dulled a blade immediately, making for more rips and tears.

I caught myself thinking that since the HO was not "upper crust" that she didn't qualify for my best effort. I slapped myself upside the head and demanded that since she was paying me my wage, she deserved the same quality as Mrs Snootbottom did. 

So yes, I agree, it don't matter if the paint or paper is going in a mobile home or a 4,000 SF penthouse condo at the Four Seasons, if they pay your AA price, they get your AA game.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

But it's not off topic
How often do guys whatever they may fret and fuss somebody parked their BMW in the drive, can't spray here!
A Ford Taurus it's ok to get overspray on?
I submit that a car is a car is a car, in respect to a over sprayed on car. Or a rear ended car for that matter. It's a claim either way. Who cares?


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

Oden said:


> But it's not off topic
> How often do guys whatever they may fret and fuss somebody parked their BMW in the drive, can't spray here!
> A Ford Taurus it's ok to get overspray on?
> I submit that a car is a car is a car, in respect to a over sprayed on car. Or a rear ended car for that matter. It's a claim either way. Who cares?


I always try to do my best, but at times it is a matter of 'you get what you pay for'. You don't want to pay for quality (property managers) you don't get it. You get decent work, just not the best. 

As for a car? I don't care off it's a brand new Tesla or an old beat up Ford tempo, car gets moved or covered.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

daArch said:


> Many eons ago, I was hanging some despicable wallpaper in a lower income neighborhood than was my usual milieu. By despicable I mean it was of design and construction that fought me every step of the way - lightweight toilet tissue paper with areas of sand adhered to it, so not only would it easily rip and tear, but the sand dulled a blade immediately, making for more rips and tears.
> 
> I caught myself thinking that since the HO was not "upper crust" that she didn't qualify for my best effort. I slapped myself upside the head and demanded that since she was paying me my wage, she deserved the same quality as Mrs Snootbottom did.
> 
> So yes, I agree, it don't matter if the paint or paper is going in a mobile home or a 4,000 SF penthouse condo at the Four Seasons, if they pay your AA price, they get your AA game.



Absolutely. Conversely, if they demand our C price, we're not bringing our best bat.


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

Gough said:


> Absolutely. Conversely, if they demand our C price, we're not bringing our best bat.


You offer a C price?

From everything I've been able to glean from all your thoughtful posts, I wouldn't have thought you do C level work for C level clients.

Aren't you the biggest PT proponent of ridding yourself of those clients in the prescreening process?


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

I paint paint said:


> You offer a C price?
> 
> From everything I've been able to glean from all your thoughtful posts, I wouldn't have thought you do C level work for C level clients.
> 
> Aren't you the biggest PT proponent of ridding yourself of those clients in the prescreening process?


Well, he has to paint his own place once in awhile. :whistling2:


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

I paint paint said:


> You offer a C price?
> 
> From everything I've been able to glean from all your thoughtful posts, I wouldn't have thought you do C level work for C level clients.
> 
> Aren't you the biggest PT proponent of ridding yourself of those clients in the prescreening process?


I think there is a difference. There are A level clients that can only afford C level quality, or don't care about it.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

journeymanPainter said:


> I think there is a difference. There are A level clients that can only afford C level quality, or don't care about it.


Or, to put it a slightly different way, there are clients who want A level work but only want to pay for C level. It usually has little to do with what they can afford.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

RH said:


> Well, he has to paint his own place once in awhile. :whistling2:


So he occupies the #1 spot on his own fecal roster? :jester:


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

I paint paint said:


> You offer a C price?
> 
> From everything I've been able to glean from all your thoughtful posts, I wouldn't have thought you do C level work for C level clients.
> 
> Aren't you the biggest PT proponent of ridding yourself of those clients in the prescreening process?


I was speaking hypothetically.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

A board may be just be a board, but there are many reasons for why there is a wide price range in paint contracting. Example:

-Arrogance
Many believe they deserve a higher price range simply because they believe they are worth it. There is typically no measureable qualififications required in painting to despite that otherwise. Contractor individual lifestyle requirements also have a huge influence on price. However, overhead is probably the most legitimate reason for a premium. Example, better equipment, training, benefits, etc., which all helps with reputation.

And as with any significant investment, whether it be a house, car, or appliance, maintenance costs are usually at a premium also.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Gough said:


> Absolutely. Conversely, if they demand our C price, we're not bringing our best bat.


OH, I'm bringing my best bat ! :whistling2:


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But seriously, we give what we are paid for, regardless of the value of the home, which I believe was what oden meant


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

It seemed like Oden's argument was why painters would charge more to paint an expensive house, when the building materials are not much different than in a less expensiv one.

I also believe that the ambiguity of a premium service, in the painting industry, allows for all kinds of interpretation of what qualifies as a high end paint job.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Why do Mercedes cost more than kias? They both have 4 wheels, they both have doors, windshields etc. why does one cost more than the other, other than brand image? Because of the labor and materials invested in building them. 
Same for painting. Custom high end work is exponentially more involved than apartment painting, and the rest of the work lies somewhere in between those two.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Damon T said:


> Why do Mercedes cost more than kias? They both have 4 wheels, they both have doors, windshields etc. why does one cost more than the other, other than brand image? Because of the labor and materials invested in building them.
> Same for painting. Custom high end work is exponentially more involved than apartment painting, and the rest of the work lies somewhere in between those two.


This begs the question- why do so many "high end" painters not care about the quality of paint they are using? It's surprising how much Promar 200 gets used on million dollar homes around here.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> This begs the question- why do so many "high end" painters not care about the quality of paint they are using? It's surprising how much Promar 200 gets used on million dollar homes around here.


Probably for the same reason building contractors use cheap materials. Maximize profits.

Here in the SF Bay Area, its amazing how cheaply some of these expensive homes are built.

And for every PT member who has integrity and skills that surpasses those of the average painter, like me, there are thousands of painters who actually are more concerned about money then integrity. Imagine that.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> Probably for the same reason building contractors use cheap materials. Maximize profits.
> 
> Here in the SF Bay Area, its amazing how cheaply some of these expensive homes are built.
> 
> And for every PT member who has integrity and skills that surpasses those of the average painter, like me, there are thousands of painters who actually are more concerned about money then integrity. Imagine that.


90% of the million dollar homes in San Diego were painted with $4.50 per gallon Old Quacker Iso-flat. Even the re-paints! We sold Promar 400 to Janet Jackson's painter for years. Some people are so rich they actually don't have time to care if they are being ripped off or not. Must be nice.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

This is why I spend little energy on criticizing paint manufactures, or painters who use less expensive paints. It's the nature of the building trade industry to turn a maximum profit whenever possible. Especially for the painting trades, where the range of application processes can leave some holding their brush and bucket, while others are happily off to another quick turn around.


But who doesn't like to proselytize about the virtues of their ways.


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## silverhw (Jul 3, 2015)

Interesting topic.

There are a multitude of stories people tell themselves to justify whatever it is they believe they deserve. I believe the bottom line is that there is a direct correlation between how people feel about themselves and how much money they make.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

CApainter said:


> It seemed like Oden's argument was why painters would charge more to paint an expensive house, when the building materials are not much different than in a less expensiv one. I also believe that the ambiguity of a premium service, in the painting industry, allows for all kinds of interpretation of what qualifies as a high end paint job.


More towards painters actually. 
Some will want to legitimize themself in some way by mentioning the multi million dollar houses they work on
Who cares? It means nothing,
And if the price of the paint job does scale to the price of the home, it means you got a good salesman in the loop, is all that says. 
A big budget on a job? Just more hours to use up. Really, and a owner to some extent really has got to use up them hours. To a extent anyhow. To justify the pricing. Give em a show. For their money.


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## Boco (May 18, 2013)

I always find that houses in the 4k sqft range are my best profit. Send two guys and a sprayer and you can knock it out quick. Any larger and you get married to them and scheduling gets harder. My last monster was 3.6 mil with 20 ft ceilings throughout. Good job but needed a 6 man crew to meet deadlines. Buck a foot wasn't enough.


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## Ric (Oct 26, 2011)

PACman said:


> 90% of the million dollar homes in San Diego were painted with $4.50 per gallon Old Quacker Iso-flat. Even the re-paints! We sold Promar 400 to Janet Jackson's painter for years. Some people are so rich they actually don't have time to care if they are being ripped off or not. Must be nice.


Good points, PAC...though I don't think (generally speaking, of course) they don't have time to care if they're being ripped off...it's often been said the only people that can afford cheap paints are wealthy people. I can't imagine someone like Janet Jackson being bothered with having to scrub a wall to remove hand prints or crayon marks - just repaint it. I think in your example, paint is regarded strictly as an aesthetic, and not as a functional, utility coating... And if it is all about aesthetics, let's face it, as much as I hate to give credit to cheap products, even a product like Pro-Mar 400 can look great on a wall, if applied professionally.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

More expensive homes tend to have more details, such as Millwork details and custom casework, with multi-colored, complicated schemes. Plus level-five, smooth-wall takes a lot more time to prepare than textured. A high-end paint job can turn a well constructed space into a true jewelry box, in appearance. The homeowners might not care, or notice all the details, but the professionals they hire, such as architects, designers, project managers, etc, are very well paid to see that the jobs are done to high specifications. Anyone that says there is no difference, sounds to me like they have never worked on true high-end. Or at least not in the same sense that I've experienced. 

I'm sure some of the posts on here are part of creating an online persona. I admit to it. I try my hardest to create an "I'm expensive" online persona to weed out price shoppers visiting my website. I must be failing in some respect, due to the high number of price shopper calls that I still receive.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> I'm sure some of the posts on here are part of creating an online persona. I admit to it. I try my hardest to create an "I'm expensive" online persona to weed out price shoppers visiting my website. I must be failing in some respect, due to the high number of price shopper calls that I still receive.



I keep giving them your number!


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> I'm sure some of the posts on here are part of creating an online persona. I admit to it. I try my hardest to create an "I'm expensive" online persona to weed out price shoppers visiting my website. I must be failing in some respect, due to the high number of price shopper calls that I still receive.


I too tried to word my website that I was catering to higher quality/price residential jobs.

But I still got calls and emails for commercial work, lowest per roll price estimates, jobs NEEDING to be done yesterday, and even people wanting to BUY wallpaper.

I got the distinct feeling they googled "wallpaper" and just called the number without reading a word on my site. 

When we market to the general public, we open ourselves up to attract the LCD (lowest common denominator)


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

In my world, some clients require much more hand-holding, brown-nosing, ego-stroking and generally more intensive customer service than others. Hence, the cost of labor goes up.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

ProWallGuy said:


> In my world, some clients require much more hand-holding, brown-nosing, ego-stroking and generally more intensive customer service than others. Hence, the cost of labor goes up.


Absolutely true, babysitting costs more, and it is irrespective of their owning a "$5 million dollar home or a $250 thousand dollar home"


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Ric said:


> Good points, PAC...though I don't think (generally speaking, of course) they don't have time to care if they're being ripped off...it's often been said the only people that can afford cheap paints are wealthy people. I can't imagine someone like Janet Jackson being bothered with having to scrub a wall to remove hand prints or crayon marks - just repaint it. I think in your example, paint is regarded strictly as an aesthetic, and not as a functional, utility coating... And if it is all about aesthetics, let's face it, as much as I hate to give credit to cheap products, even a product like Pro-Mar 400 can look great on a wall, if applied professionally.


Hell she didn't even own furniture for that house. A couple of times a year a decorator would come in and rent furniture to furnish the house when Janet was in town. This is not at all uncommon in Socal. There are actual high end furniture stores that cater to these people. Never sell anything, just weekly and monthly rentals. And this isn't cheap stuff either. All custom built designer furnishings.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

daArch said:


> I too tried to word my website that I was catering to higher quality/price residential jobs.
> 
> But I still got calls and emails for commercial work, lowest per roll price estimates, jobs NEEDING to be done yesterday, and even people wanting to BUY wallpaper.
> 
> ...


I try to promote my store as a high service quality, high product quality paint store, but I still get calls for "the best price you have". I will sell everything from $69/gal Muralo to $69/five barn paint. As long as I make money on it it's irrelevant to me. But if I were to promote my store as the "cheapest" paint store in town, I would never sell anything but cheap paint, and I would get my ass kicked by the box stores. There is a need and use for every price range of paint, and part of my job is getting people the best paint for that use. But that doesn't mean that it is ok for contractors to promote that they only use "high quality suchandsuch paint", charge accordingly, and then use a cheap contractor grade paint. That is flat out taking advantage of the end consumer. And that is what I have to contend with where I am.


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

ProWallGuy said:


> In my world, some clients require much more hand-holding, brown-nosing, ego-stroking and generally more intensive customer service than others. Hence, the cost of labor goes up.


My big problem comes when I find out all of the above will be necessary _after_ I provide the quote.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Yeah, I don't buy it either that there is any real correlation between the size/cost of a house and the quality of work demanded, expected, or provided. 

I've been in as many slapped together Mcmansion's as I have smaller, middle class homes with stellar workmanship. 

In fact, I think a lot of times it's the opposite. Get a paint crew in these big 10k sqft + houses working on a foot price, and you'll really see some corner cutting. There is just so much space, it all isn't going to get done great. 

That said, there is a section of the custom home market that does demand the best. I was lucky enough to get to do a few (NC) in this range back before the crash, and still maintain a few of them now. 

I think the most expensive house I ever painted/stained was about 1,200 sqft. The paint job inside and out cost 28,000 on cost plus. This included stuff like staining all sides of the siding during construction with Sikkens, sanding interior wood/beam structures to perfection, level 5'ing all the rock, etc. 

Those kinds of jobs are out there, but they're not necessarily correlated to the size or overall price of any given home. It has more to do with the individual contractor and home owner. 

What I wouldn't give for a few of those "money is no object" jobs these days so rare anymore, for me anyway.


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