# filling nail holes



## O'Brien (Feb 24, 2011)

Gentlemen,

Taking a poll this evening, here's the situation. Helping another contractor with a large project, NC, about 21,000 square feet of custom madness. I will post some pics soon for those interested. We have been having a disagreement over which product to use for filling nail holes. To give you an idea of scope and detail, many doors are averaging 450 nail holes (both sides of the frame and casing).
At his unyielding insistence, we proceeded to fill all holes with Durabond. Woodwork is already primed with one coat of oil Fresh Start, he plans to do three passes of Aura on top. Predictably, (for me, at least) the Durabond has shrunken (shrank?). Is it the esteemed opinion of the jury that Durabond is, in fact, prone to shrinkage? It seems like every hole has been compromised. Going further, may I solicit your opinions on products/systems?


----------



## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

I like the Elmers Wood Filler.










But if I found 450 holes in a door, I'd be kicking some carpenter's ass all the way into next month. Its a nail gun, not a machine gun.


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Yea 450 nail holes is just stupid. Talk about killing production. I like the Elmers too.


----------



## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Was the carpenter getting paid by the nail?!!!!!!


----------



## O'Brien (Feb 24, 2011)

Yeah, the carpenter's went wild. It took me 25 minutes to fill the woodwork on one set of double doors (which needed no filling themselves) and windows, with a half moon window in the middle, fluting, etc, 700+ holes to fill (bear in mind I am including other dents, nicks, etc).


----------



## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

O'Brien said:


> Yeah, the carpenter's went wild. It took me 25 minutes to fill the woodwork on one set of double doors (which needed no filling themselves) and windows, with a half moon window in the middle, fluting, etc, 700+ holes to fill (bear in mind I am including other dents, nicks, etc).


 You gotta post a picture of what 700 nails sets look like in a door casing! I am assuming this is larger detailed architectural trim, but even so......Someone needs to drop this carpenters nail gun down a well.


----------



## Different Strokes (Dec 8, 2010)

Pic please. dats a lot of holes.


----------



## Precision-TBay (Jun 1, 2011)

Can the structure even support the weight of the nails?


----------



## One Coat Coverage (Oct 4, 2009)

Sherwin Williams light weight shrink free spackle.


----------



## mpminter (Mar 21, 2011)

One Coat Coverage said:


> Sherwin Williams light weight shrink free spackle.


:thumbup: This stuff has become my go-to nail hole filler. Fast and easy, and it comes in gallon size buckets. Sounds like you may need a couple!


----------



## scott65 (Jul 11, 2011)

Crackshot, fills easy-minimal shrinkage-fast dry-easy sanding!!


----------



## StevenH (Sep 7, 2009)

Crawford's Spackling Paste


----------



## Rob (Aug 9, 2009)

Crawfords


----------



## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

I like the Elmer's Wood Filler as well. I've been using it exclusively for about four years now. Shrinks very little (if at all), sand easily, takes primer and paint well, and easy to clean off tools and hands. Used it last weeks to build up the profile of some baseboard trim a dog had chewed on - worked great. 
I keep my tub of it in a zip lock bag to prolong it's shelf life.
Was there any wood remaining around all those nail holes? :blink:


----------



## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Rob said:


> Crawfords


Ditto.


----------



## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Did he at least set it so you didn't have to counter sink any of the nails/brads for him? Trying to sink those small finish brads is a real B---h.


----------



## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

I've always just used drywall mud and overfilled holes. Dries fast, sands easy and won't flash after a topcoat like spackle does.


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Rob said:


> Crawfords



Isn't there quite a wait on this stuff curing/drying?


----------



## StevenH (Sep 7, 2009)

TJ Paint said:


> Isn't there quite a wait on this stuff curing/drying?


Yes, its made from linseed oil.
And plus it does not dry hard. (soft)

I rather use this for exterior use for flexing.


----------



## pinchegordo (Jul 3, 2011)

I prefer MH ready patch it doesn't shrink sands like spackle and fills with one pass.... Sounds like a big headache.Good luck


----------



## ROOMINADAY (Mar 20, 2009)

We have been using the Dap Drydex. We put it on heavy and sand down and it does not flash. It doesn't flash through wall touch ups either if you want to skip the odd spot prime.


----------



## rjensen ptg (Jun 9, 2011)

researchhound said:


> Did he at least set it so you didn't have to counter sink any of the nails/brads for him? * Trying to sink those small finish brads is a real B---h.*


oh yeah!!!

but i found the 'spring tool' a couple years ago. ya gotta git one! get the combo w/the door pin removal tool. - "paint pro pak" 
and if you chip the point (i did), they are guaranteed for life :thumbup:

http://www.springtools.com/default.shtml


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

pinchegordo said:


> I prefer MH ready patch it doesn't shrink sands like spackle and fills with one pass.... Sounds like a big headache.Good luck


MH patch is good stuff. It just works. Works for heavy fills too.



ROOMINADAY said:


> We have been using the Dap Drydex. We put it on heavy and sand down and it does not flash. It doesn't flash through wall touch ups either if you want to skip the odd spot prime.


I hear guys say stuff doesn't flash but I've used pretty much all spackling out there and on walls, stuff always will flash. Thats been my experience. For the guys who say it doesn't, I wonder what youre doing to make it so it don't.


----------



## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

> I hear guys say stuff doesn't flash but I've used pretty much all spackling out there and on walls, stuff always will flash. Thats been my experience. For the guys who say it doesn't, I wonder what youre doing to make it so it don't.


I agree - I've yet to find one that doesn't. If a company did make a truly non flashing spackle they would win the hearts and loyalty of many a painter. :notworthy:


----------



## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

rjensen ptg said:


> oh yeah!!!
> 
> but i found the 'spring tool' a couple years ago. ya gotta git one! get the combo w/the door pin removal tool. - "paint pro pak"
> and if you chip the point (i did), they are guaranteed for life :thumbup:
> ...


So you're saying it'll work on those tiny finish brads? If so, I'm ordering a case.
Speaking of door pins... a few years ago I had a customer with one of those doors that wouldn't stay open (or closed). She told me how she'd had a handy man in to fix it and after he virtually dismantled everything and messed with the hinges and stuff to the tune of $150 the door still wouldn't remain open. I told her I'd see what I could do. Did the old trick of removing one pin and lightly whacking the middle of it with a hammer - just enough to create a slight binding action in the hinge - and then reinserted it. Took all of about 90 seconds. I called her back in and told her it was fixed. The look on her face was priceless. Wanted to know what I'd done and told her it was a trade secret :whistling2:. I think I could have charged her just about anything and she would have paid it. It was a "NC" goodwill builder. I've been back about three times for more work and gotten several good referrals from her.


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

researchhound said:


> I agree - I've yet to find one that doesn't. If a company did make a truly non flashing spackle they would win the hearts and loyalty of many a painter. :notworthy:


I wonder if it doesn't flash under flat paints. I know there's quite a few here who use mostly flat on walls. 

I'm not in that club. Flat on ceilings, eggshell on walls. I wish I could put flat on walls, I could hire almost any knucklehead to roll that on.


----------



## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

TJ Paint said:


> I'm not in that club. Flat on ceilings, eggshell on walls. I wish I could put flat on walls, I could hire almost any knucklehead to roll that on.


 Same here. Only time I've used flat on a wall recently was when a designer required it for "effect" :whistling2:.
Just did an entire office for an investment group where the wife had selected flat when the place was remodeled about two years ago. Now it's not like these suits are rough on walls but the place looked like s--t. Redid it in eggshell and they are thrilled.
My first negative experience with HD paint department was when I took over a job from the HOs. They'd been using Behr so I stayed with it. They had about eight empty one gallon containers of eggshell in the garage so I asked them why they hadn't gotten it in fives. They didn't even know you could get it that way. Called HD to order a five and was told they didn't stock it in fives because, "Nobody uses eggshell". :blink: Strike one against HD.


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

TJ Paint said:


> I wonder if it doesn't flash under flat paints. I know there's quite a few here who use mostly flat on walls.
> 
> I'm not in that club. Flat on ceilings, eggshell on walls. I wish I could put flat on walls, I could hire almost any knucklehead to roll that on.


That is why I always keep a BIN rattle can around.


----------



## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

TJ Paint said:


> I wonder if it doesn't flash under flat paints. I know there's quite a few here who use mostly flat on walls.
> 
> I'm not in that club. Flat on ceilings, eggshell on walls. I wish I could put flat on walls, I could hire almost any knucklehead to roll that on.[/QUOTE]
> 
> Hey now, who you calling a knucklehead?:boxing:


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

whoa! I thought 280 was high.

A casing needs 8 nails on one stick. 8 up, 6 across, 8 down. Same on the other side. WOW i would be kicking someones ass for sure and the bill for that job would be insane.

RE Elmers. I like it too, I like the fact you can see it because its yellowish brown like the Sherwin Williams filler. Of those two, the SW filler tends to sand easier than Elmers but an orbital sander with some 220 makes blowing through casings and base a breeze. One guy runs the orbital, the other finishes by hand behind you. Elmers is slow to apply.

The other thing to know is the sanding method and paper. Sanding pads because of their inherent flex and form tend to sink into the hole and create a faint crater. I like 220 wrapped around a piece of wood. OR fold a piece 4 times for stiffness and tread lightly. 

So for that many nail holes, I would be using SW shrinkfree or DAP Fast n Final and fill to pucker then sand ever so lightly.


----------



## O'Brien (Feb 24, 2011)

Thanks for all the responses so far guys.
I typically use Dry Dex or Elmer's myself, but as I mentioned earlier I am not the primary on this job. Seems to me that some of his guys sanded the Durabond too agressively, resulting in negatives. Any feedback on experiences with compound shrinking? Just about every hole appears to need a re-fill. In my experience, two passes would seem fairly consistent in regards to this level of finishing, but he's very surprised about that. He was expecting to do to one pass with minimal re-filling, and did not want to tint the Durabond the first time around. I believe tinting from the outset helps to avoid sanding the filler down too much, especially as the first sanding is very thorough.


----------



## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Prime with blockfiller, topcoat with elastomeric:jester:


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

straight_lines said:


> That is why I always keep a BIN rattle can around.


I'm a huge fan of the coverstain rattle can stuff. I've used BIN, CS, and lolkilz. 

I like how the CS doesn't run as often. The kilz smells the worst and doesn't have the ergonomic spray button like the other two do.


----------



## JoseyWales (Jan 8, 2011)

I don't do NC but another painter said they use the red autobody topping compound that comes in a tube...I tried it out and it dries extremely quick and doesn't flash...Thoughts?

All the paint stores carry those tubes of red topping compound..They have for years..Obviously some painters are buying the stuff.

I would first coat with any spackle and then finish with the red topping compound.


----------



## O'Brien (Feb 24, 2011)

I don't mind Bondo for certain applications, but wouldn't want to use it to fill a million tiny holes.


----------



## JoseyWales (Jan 8, 2011)

O'Brien said:


> I don't mind Bondo for certain applications, but wouldn't want to use it to fill a million tiny holes.


Not Bondo but Red topping compound..It's the stuff that goes over Bondo.


----------



## Mike's QP (Jun 12, 2008)

it is called glazing putty, Bondo brand comes in a tube


----------



## Mike's QP (Jun 12, 2008)

JoseyWales said:


> I don't do NC but another painter said they use the red autobody topping compound that comes in a tube...I tried it out and it dries extremely quick and doesn't flash...Thoughts?
> 
> All the paint stores carry those tubes of red topping compound..They have for years..Obviously some painters are buying the stuff.
> 
> I would first coat with any spackle and then finish with the red topping compound.


 I use the stuff I dont recommend putting it over regular putties since the acetone reactivates it and messes it all up. you can prefill with the glazing putty, then some crawfords on top and you are good to go. On the smooth mdf trim I use the glazing putty 2-3 coats and you cannot spot a single hole, on baseboards you dont need to use it since you rarely get down low enough to spot the holes, I will use a regular spackle.


----------



## DanielMDollaPainting (Feb 24, 2011)

Why do you guys use spackle, wood filler, and other products that need to be sanded. I can't stand when a homeowner thinks they are helping me out and hog woodfiller on nail holes and I have to sand the heck out of uit. It is really hard to sand. Spackle would sand easy but ,why not fill the holes with puddy or glazing, wipe and paint over? This is how my dad taught me. Enlighten me. Why would you want to do more work than you have to?


----------



## Boden Painting (Dec 27, 2007)

One Coat Coverage said:


> Sherwin Williams light weight shrink free spackle.


this, with a narrow putty knife on the flats, applied with the right touch, leaves a little bump that sands flush in a pass or two of a sanding sponge. Used to use crawfords(and glazing compound before that) all the time but the slow dry and inevitable bleed through led me to try other things.


----------



## O'Brien (Feb 24, 2011)

Here's a pic of the woodwork starring 700+ nail holes (excluding doors, windows). Slightly excessive.


----------



## rjensen ptg (Jun 9, 2011)

researchhound said:


> *So you're saying it'll work on those tiny finish brads? If so, I'm ordering a case.*
> 
> *Speaking of door pins.*..


it does! it does!, it is a miracle.

its the only way i've found to countersink them, without ending up with 3-4 holes or a large hole... because, ya know, when the nailset slips off the brads... 

when you try it the first time, don't 'pull -it ' back too far. ie: my first time - 6D finish nail- i pull it back as far as i could... let go, and snap, it countersunk it all right... nice and clean...about a 1/4" !!! so i've found less is more, you'll see.

AND, to everyone, think about this. - you're filling nail holes... you carry a hammer & nailset w/ you... or every time you find a shiner, you go back to where you left it on the floor (cause its a pain to carry that hammer).

well, this little spring tool weighs about as much as a small putty knife, fits in yer pocket, (or even in the hand you're holding your spackle knife in). you'll find that its so light... hours later, you'll be painting the trim, and wonder, where did i put that thing? oh, its in my back pocket!

AND, some of these new door hinges have this 'little hole' on the bottom... you can't even get a good size nail in it, to pop the pin! the other tool (pin removal) is also a miracle. again... be careful the first time, that pin may hit the ceiling!!

no, i'm not a salesman for spring tool.. its just the best 'new' tool since the cordless drill!!!:thumbsup:

rick

"i don't ask much, and i don't ask often. trust me on this"


----------



## rjensen ptg (Jun 9, 2011)

BTW... someone had the time to *count* 700+ nails!!? :whistling2:


----------



## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

rjensen ptg said:


> BTW... someone had the time to *count* 700+ nails!!? :whistling2:


I'm thinkin' that if I saw that many holes staring at me I'd also start keeping track as I filled - just so I'd have a number to b---h about. :furious:


----------



## O'Brien (Feb 24, 2011)

If there's time to fill them, there's time to count them. On the fly, of course.


----------



## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

rjensen ptg said:


> it does! it does!, it is a miracle.
> its the only way i've found to countersink them, without ending up with 3-4 holes or a large hole... because, ya know, when the nailset slips off the brads...
> no, i'm not a salesman for spring tool.. its just the best 'new' tool since the cordless drill!!!:thumbsup:
> 
> ...


Thanks Rick -
This is the type of tool that someone's personal experience with how good it is counts a lot. Ton of sh---y products out there so to hear about one that does something well is great. Went back and looked at the thread thinking I saw someone post you can get these at SW(?). Calling them today.

Hurt my back about two weeks ago lifting a really heavy china hutch in order to get gliders under it. Began thinking that a lever that wouldn't damage furniture would be something handy to have. That evening I saw one of those "only on TV ads" for just such a device - also comes with four glider pads. Bed Bath and Beyond now stocks them so I checked em' out and they seem to be well made - metal not plastic. So, for $19.99 minus whatever coupon the wife currently has, I'm getting one. Will give it a test and post results.


----------



## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

It's funny, that spring tool is one of those things that some guys use regularly and never think twice about it. I constantly find them in the washing machine. I remember last time they were mentioned here, it was the same reaction. One of the features of the new forum layout (still a way off, check out CT) is an improved tool review section, I think that will be a great improvement.


----------



## rjensen ptg (Jun 9, 2011)

RCP said:


> It's funny, that spring tool is one of those things that some guys use regularly and never think twice about it. *I constantly find them in the washing machine.* I remember last time they were mentioned here, it was the same reaction. One of the features of the new forum layout (still a way off, check out CT) is an improved tool review section, I think that will be a great improvement.


you do laundry for your employees!!? :001_huh:


----------



## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

rjensen ptg said:


> you do laundry for your employees!!? :001_huh:


Well, it is cheaper than some other benefits.


----------



## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Called SW and they had the Springtools nail set (Pro-Pak 1/32" & 2/32" and door pin removal tool) in stock. Regularly $27 and change. On sale for $21.99, minus 30% came to $15.39. Pretty good price ($21.95 plus shipping at Amazon). 
Bonus feature - made in the USA! :thumbup:


----------

