# Looking for water based stain recommendation



## jcooperpainting (Apr 20, 2016)

Got a ton of wine rack sections to stain, contractor dropped off 5 quarts of minwax waterbased clear tint stain from sherwin williams that's custom tinted to their choice, but the product is awful ( like watered down paint) So far I thinned it down 60% and its just unbearable as a wipe on stain and couldn't imagine thinning it more to try and spray.

Anyone got a good recommendation on a waterbased/food grade custom tintable stain for wine rack kits? Spray or wipe on, anything thats better than this hot trash.

Eastern PA, have sherwin williams, ben moore and then big box stores.

Thanks


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Minwax is garbage. Personally I use use General finishes dye stain on that, very easy to use and great colors. Alternatively their RTM stain or 'retail' stain. Saman stain is a pretty good product too if that is available in your area.


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## Respec (Sep 13, 2015)

I've used M.L. Campbells Woodsong II stain with their MagnaMaxx H2O precat poly on top. We have sprayed cabinets and wood tops with it and it holds up great. I like it a lot. The stain is lacquer based. It is a sprayable wiping stain that gives you some working time if it needs to be wiped. It can be coated in a couple hours with the waterborne poly. The MagnaMaxx H2O has an amber cast to it that makes it look like a traditional oil finish.


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## Ricko (Dec 16, 2020)

I use general water base stains


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## guy_with_brush (Dec 18, 2020)

I like Sherwin BAC wiping stain. I believe its oil based, but it dries incredibly quickly and is very forgiving. Sherwin can match minwax colors, but its a far superior product. Hope I helped!


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

guy_with_brush said:


> I like Sherwin BAC wiping stain. I believe its oil based, but it dries incredibly quickly and is very forgiving. Sherwin can match minwax colors, but its a far superior product. Hope I helped!


Minwax is a sherwin product so I would hope they can match their own crap stain.


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## Masterwork (Sep 13, 2020)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Minwax is a sherwin product so I would hope they can match their own crap stain.


What don't you like about minwax?


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Masterwork said:


> What don't you like about minwax?


Overall its just low quality. Low quality pigments results in a muddy appearance and I don't care for its application properties. IMO basically every other stain on the market is superior to minwax. Ive posted some other pictures here before but try some minwax next to lenmar wiping stains on some lightly figure wood like alder. Night and day coming from minwax. I don't even think BAC stains are anything to write home about, they are OK but there is better stuff out there.


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## Ricko (Dec 16, 2020)

Myself I lean towards old masters stain


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## Masterwork (Sep 13, 2020)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Overall its just low quality. Low quality pigments results in a muddy appearance and I don't care for its application properties. IMO basically every other stain on the market is superior to minwax. Ive posted some other pictures here before but try some minwax next to lenmar wiping stains on some lightly figure wood like alder. Night and day coming from minwax. I don't even think BAC stains are anything to write home about, they are OK but there is better stuff out there.


And what kind of clear coat would you put on top?


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Masterwork said:


> And what kind of clear coat would you put on top?


I stock general finishes, daly's, and benjaminmoore and lenmar clear coats.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Ricko said:


> Myself I lean towards old masters stain


Old masters is a good quality traditional linseed oil stain. Daly's, general finishes, Zar... Just Dip your brush into one of these next to a can of minwax and you'll get the idea. Once you use the lenmar stains you'll find it difficult to want to go back to using traditional stains.


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## Ricko (Dec 16, 2020)

Sell lenmar in Canada?


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Ricko said:


> Sell lenmar in Canada?


Its a BM product so I would assume you can get it there


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Overall its just low quality. Low quality pigments results in a muddy appearance and I don't care for its application properties. IMO basically every other stain on the market is superior to minwax. Ive posted some other pictures here before but try some minwax next to lenmar wiping stains on some lightly figure wood like alder. Night and day coming from minwax. I don't even think BAC stains are anything to write home about, they are OK but there is better stuff out there.


I’ve seen delicate painter’s tape pull clear coats clean off over Minwax oil stains applied by others, as well as seeing clear coats blading/delaminting from Minwax stain at wood joints. 

Why any stain manufacturer would use a heavy non-drying petroleum based lubricating oil as a solvent which never really dries or evaporates fully, is beyond me.


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## Ricko (Dec 16, 2020)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Its a BM product so I would assume you can get it there


What's bm?


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Ricko said:


> What's bm?


Benjamin Moore


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Its a BM product so I would assume you can get it there


 Yes, they even sell it here in NL..


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## kentdalimp (Aug 15, 2013)

So we have been really impressed with Rubio Monocoat 2C. [LINK] 

We found it when looking for a serviceable wood finish for the Salk Institute. (No VOC's was a big deal for them.)

It was designed as a floor finish, but they use it on all sorts of wood surfaces. Because there is no Clear coat, damage is really easy to repair and it holds up to a lot of abuse. It's expensive but a little goes a LONG way.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

kentdalimp said:


> So we have been really impressed with Rubio Monocoat 2C. [LINK]
> 
> We found it when looking for a serviceable wood finish for the Salk Institute. (No VOC's was a big deal for them.)
> 
> It was designed as a floor finish, but they use it on all sorts of wood surfaces. Because there is no Clear coat, damage is really easy to repair and it holds up to a lot of abuse. It's expensive but a little goes a LONG way.


RMC is best applied with a buffing pad. Usually reserve these type of finishes, RMC, woca, odies oil etc for floors or other large flat surfaces like a table top.


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

kentdalimp said:


> So we have been really impressed with Rubio Monocoat 2C. [LINK]
> 
> We found it when looking for a serviceable wood finish for the Salk Institute. (No VOC's was a big deal for them.)
> 
> It was designed as a floor finish, but they use it on all sorts of wood surfaces. Because there is no Clear coat, damage is really easy to repair and it holds up to a lot of abuse. It's expensive but a little goes a LONG way.



And the isocyanates in the accelerator weren’t a big deal for them?

Not a fan of the RMC Oil Plus 2C colored oils, but the pure is pretty decent. IMO, the colored oils tend to obscure the wood’s figure too much, rendering an artificial & contrived look. Although containing wax, most hardwood flooring professionals I’ve worked with usually end up coating over the RMC Oil Plus 2C with WB matte 2K PUs in kitchens, baths, and other wet locations due to water spotting & other staining.

I do however prefer repairable/maintainable minimalist oil & waxed finishes vs film finishes.


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## kentdalimp (Aug 15, 2013)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> RMC is best applied with a buffing pad. Usually reserve these type of finishes, RMC, woca, odies oil etc for floors or other large flat surfaces like a table top.


Correct, We have used a handheld buffer to do smaller items (Festool), and even buffed it by hand in the really tight spots. Very good material for more than just floors.


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## kentdalimp (Aug 15, 2013)

Redux said:


> And the isocyanates in the accelerator weren’t a big deal for them?


Onsite Vertical Surfaces didn't get the Accelerator. (Offices where under construction so they weren't occupied for over 21 days)

Horizontal Shelving was done offsite, using the Accelerator, and returned to the jobsite a week later.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Redux said:


> And the isocyanates in the accelerator weren’t a big deal for them?
> 
> Not a fan of the RMC Oil Plus 2C colored oils, but the pure is pretty decent. IMO, the colored oils tend to obscure the wood’s figure too much, rendering an artificial & contrived look. Although containing wax, most hardwood flooring professionals I’ve worked with usually end up coating over the RMC Oil Plus 2C with WB matte 2K PUs in kitchens, baths, and other wet locations due to water spotting & other staining.
> 
> I do however prefer repairable/maintainable minimalist oil & waxed finishes vs film finishes.


Some jobs literally only look at the listed "VOC" unfortunately. Ill remember that and bring up this as an example next time someone asks me for a 'zero voc' finish.


https://www.monocoat.us/content/pdf/SDS_Rubio%20Monocoat%20Oil%20Plus%202C%20-%20comp.%20B_EN.pdf



Pretty scummy to tout an isocyanate system as a zero VOC non toxic finish.


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