# Home Made Waterborne Toner



## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

So I mixed up a 10:1 formula of Saman Waterbased Clear with Saman waterbased Stain. 1 part black. 1 part dark oak. I've sprayed this as a toner before, but this time just brushed 2 coats over a honey oak door, lightly sanded with 220. Actually really impressed with the out come. It was quick and appears to be super durable. I may also clear it again but honestly doesn't seem to need it.
I know this is not re-inventing the wheel, but thought I would share as I have clients that are looking to upgrade thier old oak cabs and not spend a fortune completely stripping them. This stuff hardly has any smell at all. Its sort of like those 2 in 1 products I guess, but seemed to have a nicer finish.. This was done with a crappy foam brush. Any one else experiment with this? Or have any thoughts?


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

finishesbykevyn said:


> So I mixed up a 10:1 formula of Saman Waterbased Clear with Saman waterbased Stain. 1 part black. 1 part dark oak. I've sprayed this as a toner before, but this time just brushed 2 coats over a honey oak door, lightly sanded with 220. Actually really impressed with the out come. It was quick and appears to be super durable. I may also clear it again but honestly doesn't seem to need it.
> I know this is not re-inventing the wheel, but thought I would share as I have clients that are looking to upgrade thier old oak cabs and not spend a fortune completely stripping them. This stuff hardly has any smell at all. Its sort of like those 2 in 1 products I guess, but seemed to have a nicer finish.. This was done with a crappy foam brush. Any one else experiment with this? Or have any thoughts?
> View attachment 112850


It appears the the stain and clear are compatible, and they mix together without separating? That is good to know. I have tried this with oil base, but have not tried this with anything water based.

That looks great for a brush finish, but for something like this, wouldn’t make sense to spray the toner? HVLP?


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Thanks Holland. Totally compatible. Even after several days it did not separate in the jar. Crazy. I did try spraying with the hvlp, but found it applies alot darker and more uneven. Also fisheyes were quite apparent for whatever reason. Possibly because it did not get driven into the grain.. Brushing was more controlled and actually pretty quick. My findings anyhow.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Thanks Holland. Totally compatible. Even after several days it did not separate in the jar. Crazy. I did try spraying with the hvlp, but found it applies alot darker and more uneven. Also fisheyes were quite apparent for whatever reason. Possibly because it did not get driven into the grain.. Brushing was more controlled and actually pretty quick. My findings anyhow.


what's causing the fisheyes??
Have you eliminated everything one-by-one from your setup?


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Holland said:


> what's causing the fisheyes??
> Have you eliminated everything one-by-one from your setup?


Honestly I was probably rushing and didn't tack cloth enough. However, being an oak I felt as though it wanted to be brushed into the grain/canals.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Honestly I was probably rushing and didn't tack cloth enough. However, being an oak I felt as though it wanted to be brushed into the grain/canals.


I hope you're not using a tack cloth.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Thanks Holland. Totally compatible. Even after several days it did not separate in the jar. Crazy. I did try spraying with the hvlp, but found it applies alot darker and more uneven. Also fisheyes were quite apparent for whatever reason. Possibly because it did not get driven into the grain.. Brushing was more controlled and actually pretty quick. My findings anyhow.


You'll have better results toning if you're using a dye rather than a heavy pigmented stain like saman which is basically pigment suspended in glycol.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> You'll have better results toning if you're using a dye rather than a heavy pigmented stain like saman which is basically pigment suspended in glycol.


@cocomonkeynuts
How do you feel about using dyes such as: Mixol or Transfast/Keda dyes mixed with clears?


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Holland said:


> @cocomonkeynuts
> How do you feel about using dyes such as: Mixol or Transfast/Keda dyes mixed with clears?


They work great, far far better than pigments. I like using the liquid versions.
mixol are universal pigments


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> They work great, far far better than pigments. I like using the liquid versions.
> mixol are universal pigments


to clarify...you prefer the Keda/Transfast dyes, but prefer the liquid versions -can you specify an exact product(s)? 
You do not prefer Mixol universal pigment? My thought is that it would work for oil based, whereas the dyes are water-soluble only. 

Is that correct?


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Holland said:


> to clarify...you prefer the Keda/Transfast dyes, but prefer the liquid versions -can you specify an exact product(s)?
> You do not prefer Mixol universal pigment? My thought is that it would work for oil based, whereas the dyes are water-soluble only.
> 
> Is that correct?


I have liquid metallic complex dyes (acetate based) that mix into lacquers and pretty much any oil product. Mine are lenmar branded but most stain manufacturers will have them.
Otherwise yes I would prefer transtint over a powder dye, easier to work with though powder dyes are order of magnitude less expensive I like the convenience of ready to go bottles




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Lenmar® Wood Finishes and Coatings | Benjamin Moore


Explore the full portfolio of high-quality wood coating solutions, formulated to provide lasting beauty and protection.




www.benjaminmoore.com


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> You'll have better results toning if you're using a dye rather than a heavy pigmented stain like saman which is basically pigment suspended in glycol.


Cool, but are they compatible with waterborne clears? I was actually ok with results and products seemed quite compatible , however I'm no Chemist.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Cool, but are they compatible with waterborne clears? I was actually ok with results and products seemed quite compatible , however I'm no Chemist.


yes of course they are


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

Nice finish you got there. I just did my first cabinet re-stain in the spring, gel staining with old masters and then clear coating with masters armor. The toning appears to preserve more of the original grain versus the gel stain method.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Holland said:


> I hope you're not using a tack cloth.


No I use microfibre cloths. and compressed air, but sometimes when I'm doing samples I get lazy.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

fromthenorthwest said:


> Nice finish you got there. I just did my first cabinet re-stain in the spring, gel staining with old masters and then clear coating with masters armor. The toning appears to preserve more of the original grain versus the gel stain method.


Thanks FNW. Indeed the toning (atleast on Oak) appears very natural looking. It was also waay easier to apply than the Gel Stain, not to mention I trusted it to adhere better. Although you can get some pretty cool looks with the Gel Stain. I may try to get my hands on some of these dye stains that CMN speaks of. Anyhow, I figure this method could/would be even quicker than painting as there would be no primer required. I know most of the trend is on painting cabinets right now, but there is still alot of interest in keeping the natural look and may even become a trend again soon.


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