# Festool Fakir



## ParamountPaint (Aug 25, 2016)

Anyone use one of these? We're having a bear of a time with some commercial vinyl over fabric. We've resorted to using those little paper tigers, but that is not going to cut it, time-wise.

The paper will strip decently (with the zinnser concentrate) if we get it perforated well. I've already tried a 6" sander with 40 grit and it just clogs up. We started out pulling the face and wetting the backing, but the backing fabric is very delicate and will not come off in any sort productive way. Doesn't help that the paper was hung over one coat of cheap primer and no size.


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## ParamountPaint (Aug 25, 2016)

ParamountPaint said:


> Anyone use one of these? We're having a bear of a time with some commercial vinyl over fabric. We've resorted to using those little paper tigers, but that is not going to cut it, time-wise.
> 
> The paper will strip decently (with the zinnser concentrate) if we get it perforated well. I've already tried a 6" sander with 40 grit and it just clogs up. We started out pulling the face and wetting the backing, but the backing fabric is very delicate and will not come off in any sort productive way. Doesn't help that the paper was hung over one coat of cheap primer and no size.


I already ordered one for 2nd day air, so I'm going to give it a try. Just seeing if anyone has any experience with it.

If it works, I'm going to order 2 move overnighted.


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## Masterwork (Sep 13, 2020)

Your link won't work for me.


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## ParamountPaint (Aug 25, 2016)

*Festool 495747 TP 220 Fakir Wallpaper Perforator*

That is what it is, if I can't link to it.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

eWell if that thing doesn't work, you may as well tear the drywall out and start over. The Vinyl should pull off without scoring no?


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

This is a family site.


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## ParamountPaint (Aug 25, 2016)

finishesbykevyn said:


> eWell if that thing doesn't work, you may as well tear the drywall out and start over. The Vinyl should pull off without scoring no?


The face pulls. The pernicious backing is the issue.

I'm no greenhorn here...this is the worst I've run into. To eliminate leaving the backing, we've moved to scoring and stripping. We've been experimenting for 3 days so far, and score and soak is holding the most promise. 

I'm game to subcontract it to one of you, if anyone wants it. There is enough money to go around.


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## ParamountPaint (Aug 25, 2016)

ParamountPaint said:


> The face pulls. The pernicious backing is the issue.
> 
> I'm no greenhorn here...this is the worst I've run into. To eliminate leaving the backing, we've moved to scoring and stripping. We've been experimenting for 3 days so far, and score and soak is holding the most promise.
> 
> I'm game to subcontract it to one of you, if anyone wants it. There is enough money to go around.


Many loonies.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

I've not tried it, but I feel your pain. A few years ago I ran into an entire home that was papered directly over rock back in the 60's. Probably took me too long to switch gears, but finally realized it was going to be way faster to just overlay 1/4" sheetrock. Did that on all rooms except bathrooms & laundry room, where I ended up tearing out the old and put green board in.

How much surface area are we talking about?


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## ParamountPaint (Aug 25, 2016)

About 10000 sq ft floor space, 9ft ceilings with various bulkheads.

It's a bank...my bread and butter. Overlay is out of the question.


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## ParamountPaint (Aug 25, 2016)

Here's the deal...I can walk, which is better in the short term. I can buckle down and suffer through, which isn't ideal, but is better in the long term.

There's enough in the contract to do it, but I won't be buying a boat on it. 

I've never walked on a job 20 years, so it's going to get done. I'll buy 10k worth of equipment to move it along, if need be.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

I know you've probably done plenty of wallpaper removal over the years, but have you ever tried mixing the stripper with dish soap and then covering it up with plastic? As I'm sure you already know, no matter the stripper--the more it dries, the less effective it is. Dish soap helps keep it wet. Plastic keeps it from drying out. Duck tape every 5' and run staples through the duct tape. 

Might give it a whirl on a small section.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

ParamountPaint said:


> About 10000 sq ft floor space, 9ft ceilings with various bulkheads.
> 
> It's a bank...my bread and butter. Overlay is out of the question.


Remove face of wallpaper first. Then attack to backing:
Spray it with a mixture of DIF and water (I like to use a pump sprayer), let it sit for 15-30 minutes. It should come right off w/o much effort. Keep it wet, until it loosens. Only work as much as you can handle at one time and still keep it wet. Make sure to use gardz to seal the adhesive residue before painting. Scoring will only make more work, imo (if you keep it in one piece - no scoring- it will come off in one piece when it’s ready). 

It’s still a lot of work. But that the easiest way.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Sounds like you know what you’re doing. Some wallpaper backing can just be problematic, especially if not prepared well.

I actually started using a battery powered backpack sprayer (w/ DIF concentrate- like you said).

Some backing will just take longer. Have you tried a test area, and just keep it wet for up to an hour, maybe longer? See what happens.

Woodco might have some thoughts.

I think wheat paste is the one that is stubborn. Ran into something like that on the last wallpaper removal I did. Very stubborn. I found making a stronger DIF concentrate helped, in this case, and longer soaking times. I feel your pain.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Using the scoring machines is only effective if you Cant get the outer layer peeled. For the backing paper, Very hot water DIF and a bit of laundry conditioner. Work in small sections with a 4-6 Mud knife. You will likely have the walls torn up by the end of it, so plan for a prime and a skim coat. Hire a bunch of kids at $10/hr to help you!  🤦‍♂️


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## Masterwork (Sep 13, 2020)

Hire a drywall company to replace the drywall.


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

I’d Fakir the crap out of it and try steaming it off, preferably using a propane vs an electric steamer if an enzyme or lye based remover didn’t work...hopefully it wasn’t installed with non-strippable clay.

I noticed that Festool includes the definition of what a Fakir actually is on their website (a holy person who lies on a bed of nails). 

Best of luck..


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## ParamountPaint (Aug 25, 2016)

I'm gonna try the Fakir, solely because taking the face and backing off at the same time has proven less destructive and oddly quicker. When we pulled the facing, the drywall paper was pulling in spots and the cotton-weave backing makes a mess. If the Fakir works, the largest part of the physical work should be reduced greatly.

We also have to work around the fact that this is an occupied facility, so we need to strip and clean an area and put everything back. The only reason we are even in there during the day is that many of the employees are working from home, so we can get into offices that we wouldn't usually be in during business hours.

I don't know what the paste is, but Chomp doesn't faze it (it usually works pretty well). The stuff we're using is called Zinnser Ultimate, which seems to use alcohol as the active ingredient. I really hate DIF, so if we can get acceptable results with the Ultimate, I'm gonna stick with it. The paper was installed over new drywall with one crappy coat of primer, it seems. It's the original installation, though the cove base has been changed at some point and they cut the paper at the base line...also a problem.

I've got the budget, I think, so it may just be a case of more manpower. Luckily, it's my last branch with paper.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Would like to see some pics...


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## Conley (Dec 6, 2010)

I'm on here looking for info one a different tool, but saw this thread and thought id share my experience. I got one in November and used it on a good size removal. Different papers for sure. Vinyl peeled off and left a backing and was easily soaked and pretty much feel off. The largest rooms were really tough and only the score and soak would work. I really appreciated the tool. I do not like to run a tiger paw . The constant circular motion is not good to me.
The Fakir absolutely cut the scoring time to a fraction and was so much easier to do the up and down motion that I'm more custom to. There is a learning curve for sure. I started out easy then I didn't care if hurt the wall, it was inevitable
that I has to skim coat some mud. I had issues with the bolt that holds one of the wheels of teeth on . it would come loose and I felt as if was putting too much pressure to that side of it . that happened a few times and I haven't been up against paper since. I didn't return the tool and I'm happy with how much time it saved me and could save me on future projects.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

ParamountPaint said:


> I already ordered one for 2nd day air, so I'm going to give it a try. Just seeing if anyone has any experience with it.
> 
> If it works, I'm going to order 2 move overnighted.


I've checked one out at Festool in Indiana, but not on a job out in the field. It will make the paper tiger seem like a kids toy i reckon.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

Will the GC let you prime the stuck on backing and skim coat over that?


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## ParamountPaint (Aug 25, 2016)

Woodco said:


> Will the GC let you prime the stuck on backing and skim coat over that?


There isn't a gc involved. They have internal staff that act as the gc. I essentially have a prime contract for our work.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

I would pull the face, gardz the backing, and float it smooth. Give the walls a band new surface.


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## Vinyl 54X (Mar 12, 2019)

Strip the face of the vinyl, Draw tite the backing and skim coat away. Some old wallcoverings have a backing that reacts with the paste and creates a hard waterproof barrier, Are walls going back W-C or paint?


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## ParamountPaint (Aug 25, 2016)

Walls are going to paint. I've received the Fakir, so it will be put to the test tomorrow. I think it may be the ticket.

I'm not in a giant rush, because I've got myself and one employee experimenting. When we find the golden ticket, I can man it up and get it done. Personally, on a job like this, I wouldn't show up on day one with 10 guys and start hacking at it.

In an ideal world, the procedure would be in place long before the job commenced, but it never seems to work out that way. It'll be fine, I imagine...it usually is.

I don't know anything about draw tight. We've hit everything stripped with Gardz.


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## ParamountPaint (Aug 25, 2016)

Well, I tried the Fakir. I did some little test areas to get the depth dialed in.

The good: it seems to work as it should. It will take some getting used to, but I think it will do what I need it to do. The small areas that I used it on stripped the face and backing in one go, after spraying and waiting 15 min. The blades are sharp as sh**.

The bad: I had to fiddle with it to get the depth set up, but I expect that will be a problem with each different paper. It doesn't really shred the vinyl as it would paper paper. It seems touchy to technique, which I also expected. The bad, bad was that it is a particularly noisy device, which lead to only very limited testing during business hours. I'm not gonna blame the player...I'll blame the game.

We are attempting to do this during business hours, which limits the ruckus we can make. I'm going to go in there this weekend and perforate as much paper as I can while they are closed. Then, we can go in on Monday and spray and strip it.

I think it's a good tool, but I also think it's going to take some practice. It seems like it would be golden for paper over plaster, but it's more finicky with paper over drywall. I'm going to go ahead and order a couple more. $175 is negligible, if you can save a few hours of labor. 

I'll post up some more thoughts after it has gotten a good workout...maybe even a pic or two.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

ParamountPaint said:


> I don't know anything about draw tight. We've hit everything stripped with Gardz.


Draw Tite is the better version of Gardz. Its more expensive, but it doesnt stink anywhere near as bad, and it has several different formulas. It has a clear, and a white version, a zero VOC version, and my favorite, the clear No Run. It is like shaving cream, that seems to liquify when you put it on the walls, so it doesnt drip all over like Gardz. Draw Tite is hard to get though. I finally got Sherwin stocking it for me, so no more Gardz for me! Its made by Scotch Paint, if that helps.

If you can find it, buy it.


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## ParamountPaint (Aug 25, 2016)

Woodco said:


> Draw Tite is the better version of Gardz. Its more expensive, but it doesnt stink anywhere near as bad, and it has several different formulas. It has a clear, and a white version, a zero VOC version, and my favorite, the clear No Run. It is like shaving cream, that seems to liquify when you put it on the walls, so it doesnt drip all over like Gardz. Draw Tite is hard to get though. I finally got Sherwin stocking it for me, so no more Gardz for me! Its made by Scotch Paint, if that helps.
> 
> If you can find it, buy it.


I picked up some Roman Pro-999 stuff that doesn't stink nearly as bad, too. I don't know much about it yet, but it seems similar to Gardz, in theory.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

999 is not as good as gardz, but will work in a pinch. Cheaper too.


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