# Difference between Emerald Urethane and Advance?



## Local paint pro (May 15, 2018)

I have a higher end home to paint, and the HO er wants trim paint that will not yellow. In my experience Advance has a tendency to yellow or change color a bit. Sherwin Rep says emerald U is different totally, ive used it before with great results. Can someone please explain, and what are your preferences for nice trim?


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

I like to use WB Alkyd Urethane from Sherwin, on their Pro-Industrial line. It's a less expensive and it's the same as emerald urethane. 

Levels good, and it dries to a good hard durable finish. That's my new vote for trim/door paint. 

Never used Adanced from BM. But I'd venture to bet that it probably doesn't dry to the same hardness as the WB Alkyd. 4H Pencil hardness. 

Levels great, brushable with good results, sprays nicely, and dries fairly quickly. It has my vote.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

Emerald urethane is along the same lines as cabinet coat, while advance is more like proclassic. Advance gets absolutely rock hard, and it doesnt yellow as bad as an oil, but a little bit. I've touched up white advance that was painted two years earlier, and it it touched up good, so it didnt yellow too bad. 

IMO, the WB urethanes are easier to spray, but the WB alkyds are easier to do by hand. Look into Scuff-x. I've heard it can look great with a little extender, and its rock hard right away. I would use Cabinet Coat over Sherwins stuff anyday though.


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## PNW Painter (Sep 5, 2013)

Advance will definitely yellow over time, but you won’t notice till you touch up something 1-2 yrs later. It’s also a much more difficult product to work with compared to products such as Cabinet Coat or Scuff-X. Advance also takes much longer till it’s fully cured and reaches peak hardness.

According to the manager at my local BM store, a lot of companies in my area are switching to Scuff-X for trim paint. I’ve only used it on one trim pack, but I was extremely impressed. It was easy to spray, you could recoat it very quickly and it gets hard very quickly. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Local paint pro (May 15, 2018)

I havent tried scuff x before, but i do have a ben moore store locally. What is the price point? im sure it has to be cheaper than advance and emerald U, those are their most expensive paints just about. I m going with Emerald Urethane, i know it wont yellow. $54 per gallon isn't cheap, but you get what you pay for.


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

Local paint pro said:


> I havent tried scuff x before, but i do have a ben moore store locally. What is the price point? im sure it has to be cheaper than advance and emerald U, those are their most expensive paints just about. I m going with Emerald Urethane, i know it wont yellow. $54 per gallon isn't cheap, but you get what you pay for.



Good choice. 

Plus you have the added benefit of being able to put it outside as well. Advance is an interior only product whereas the Emerald / Pro Industrial is interior/exterior. 

Will also fade less as well because of the urethane. I'm sure you'll like it. Just treat it like an oil, lay off in 1 direction and leave it alone, let it level itself out. You'll be fine.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

PNW Painter said:


> Advance will definitely yellow over time, but you won’t notice till you touch up something 1-2 yrs later. It’s also a much more difficult product to work with compared to products such as Cabinet Coat or Scuff-X. Advance also takes much longer till it’s fully cured and reaches peak hardness.
> 
> According to the manager at my local BM store, a lot of companies in my area are switching to Scuff-X for trim paint. I’ve only used it on one trim pack, but I was extremely impressed. It was easy to spray, you could recoat it very quickly and it gets hard very quickly.
> 
> ...


Advance brushes out beautifully. Long open time and levels off amazingly. 
I haven't tried the scuffx. What are the brushing and leveling properties like?


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Anything with an "alkyd" component is likely to yellow. Physics and chemistry. Gotta love 'em.


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## bdaddymorse (Nov 16, 2011)

*trim paint*

I have used lots and lots of advanced - love it love it. A few things to keep in mind - when converting oil - i still used enamel undercoater- especially Ben Moore oil- can use advanced if spraying but careful is brushing -runs- thin to win- but i did just try SWP oil stainblocker- still feeling out- not as thick as Ben moore but does powder up when sanding- give time to dry well- lay out not as good a BM but almost half price. As for the SWP urethane, it is an amazing product- very pricy but who cares if your painting trim - always use best- you can brush it spray it - a third grader could put it on and it still looks great. 

I also painted pink exterior door and you can go into drying stuff and it still does not turn to cottage cheese. One recommendation- I love satin but this satin is a little too flat- looks more like eggshell( similar problem to Behr alkyd satin). I have not used SWP's semi-gloss but may recommend if you want sheen.


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

PACman said:


> anything with an "alkyd" component is likely to yellow. Physics and chemistry. Gotta love 'em.



Paired with the urethane it will limit the yellow characteristics. Forgot to add that.


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## Charles Graves Painting (Oct 20, 2021)

Local paint pro said:


> I have a higher end home to paint, and the HO er wants trim paint that will not yellow. In my experience Advance has a tendency to yellow or change color a bit. Sherwin Rep says emerald U is different totally, ive used it before with great results. Can someone please explain, and what are your preferences for nice trim?


Pictures are worth 1000 words. Here are some photos of Emerald Urethane used on cabinets, and interior and exterior trim. (When doing exterior trim, I recommend the M-1 moldicide additive be added to all paints to prevent mold/mildew spots.)

We’ve done over 3000 jobs both large and small over the past 8 years in business, and I’ve personally seen the finished results. I’ve also done lab tests where I scuff tested, chemical/mar tested, and saw how various paints compared. I’ve also checked up on old projects to see how the paint has held up.

For the life of me, I cannot understand the people who say that Advance is a better paint. Are they even real people? Are they paid to say that? Do they just have brand loyalty? For starters, the Emerald Urethane is a next generation Urethane modified acrylic alkyd. The Advance is just a waterborne alkyd. Right there, from a chemical perspective, the Emerald Urethane is fundamentally superior just in it’s chemical makeup.

Urethane modified alkyds are way stronger and superior compared to waterborne alkyd’s alone. 1) They dry much harder, 2) They generally don’t ever yellow, and certainly much less than basic waterborne alkyd’s do. 3) They are more chemically resistant. 4) They are much more scratch resistant.

Comparing these 2 paints is like comparing a Ferrari with a V10 engine to a Toyota with a V6 engine. It’s not even FAIR, lol. It’s a joke. It’s like comparing a Siberian Tiger to a house cat. We as an industry have GOT to be better, clients depend on us to provide them this information and we all need to strive for continued education in chemistry and paint science.

FYI- There are better products than Emerald Urethane for cabinets. Milesi from Italy makes a 1K or especially the 2K tinted poly’s, which dry exceptionally hard (more so than either Emerald Urethane or Advance) and also look very beautiful too. Renner also makes great cabinet products. Fine Paints of Europe has a brilliant Lacquer (Hollandlac) for customers wanting to make a statement. And for the primer, I don’t recommend BM or SW’s primer, there’s a better one.

We shouldn’t be 100% brand loyalists, our #1 main goal should be loyalty to our clients and providing them the absolute best service, best product, and most up to date knowledge.

BM Advance was the go to product maybe 5-10 years ago… but not since the next-gen tinted poly’s or SW Emerald Urethane came out! Notice how nobody defending BM Advance has any pictures of it. It simply doesn’t look as good and it doesn’t clean as good.

here’s a great video of testing comparing the two:


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Charles Graves Painting said:


> Pictures are worth 1000 words. Here are some photos of Emerald Urethane used on cabinets, and interior and exterior trim. (When doing exterior trim, I recommend the M-1 moldicide additive be added to all paints to prevent mold/mildew spots.)
> 
> We’ve done over 3000 jobs both large and small over the past 8 years in business, and I’ve personally seen the finished results. I’ve also done lab tests where I scuff tested, chemical/mar tested, and saw how various paints compared. I’ve also checked up on old projects to see how the paint has held up.
> 
> ...


I use Emerald frequently, and appreciate that it is interior/exterior rated (for the occasional front door). It has a subtle sheen when sprayed that I like, and clients seem to like the sheen as well (although it is definitely lower on the sheen scale than many trim paints).

I also appreciate that it sprays, brushes, and rolls with predictable results, but to be fair, some trim paints perform better in this regard.

The primary complaints about Emerald Urethane are directed almost exclusively at how it feels to the touch. It "feels" like wall paint, not like a cabinet enamel you want to run your fingers on.

Did you paint all the exterior trim with Emerald Urethane?
What did you prime with?
Cedar or Pine trim?
Did you stain Cedar Shingles with Solid Stain?
What region/climate do you reside in?

- 375 homes a year? Very impressive.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Holland said:


> I use Emerald frequently, and appreciate that it is interior/exterior rated (for the occasional front door).
> It has a subtle sheen when sprayed that I like, and clients seem to like the sheen as well (although it is definitely lower on the sheen scale than many trim paints).
> 
> I also appreciate that it sprays, brushes, and rolls with predictable results, but to be fair, some trim paints perform better in this regard.
> ...


I've walked several jobs where emerald urethane was used on the trim and I'm always embarrassed when I ask what trim paint their going to use and find out its not just a primer. Supposedly the new version is better.

As an aside I sprayed some centurion 2800 satin last night on a junk piece of trim we had lying around. I'm just blown away the "feel" is so silky smooth and a nice classic satin sheen. Advance as a nice 'feel' as does scuffx but theyre not even close to what this centurion is.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Charles Graves Painting said:


> Pictures are worth 1000 words. Here are some photos of Emerald Urethane used on cabinets, and interior and exterior trim. (When doing exterior trim, I recommend the M-1 moldicide additive be added to all paints to prevent mold/mildew spots.)
> 
> We’ve done over 3000 jobs both large and small over the past 8 years in business, and I’ve personally seen the finished results. I’ve also done lab tests where I scuff tested, chemical/mar tested, and saw how various paints compared. I’ve also checked up on old projects to see how the paint has held up.
> 
> ...


Emerald urethane not impressed. Good luck if you are using tricorn black, maybe it will be cured when you come back in a year to fix it!

Also FYI hollandlac is not a 'lacquer', I take it you've never look at their product before.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

Charles Graves Painting said:


> _*We’ve done over 3000 jobs both large and small over the past 8 years in business, *_


Average full-time painter works around 260 days/year, which means you must be completing nearly 1.5 jobs each day? 

Does that sound about right to you?

How many employees?


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

I'd take cabinet coat over Emerald urethane. 

Im acutally not a big fan of advance either, but Id rather use it for a cut and roll job. Spraying, Id much rather go for cabinet coat. Ive been specced to use advance a bunch of times though. Ive never used it cuz I wanted to.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

The new Emerald feels nothing like the old stuff. For those of you like me that wouldn't use it because of the feel and sheen levels it's worth taking a look at again. I'm on a job currently where I plan to brush all the trim and spray the cabinets with it, curious to see if it lays out as nice as the old stuff did.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Charles Graves Painting said:


> Pictures are worth 1000 words. Here are some photos of Emerald Urethane used on cabinets, and interior and exterior trim. (When doing exterior trim, I recommend the M-1 moldicide additive be added to all paints to prevent mold/mildew spots.)
> 
> We’ve done over 3000 jobs both large and small over the past 8 years in business, and I’ve personally seen the finished results. I’ve also done lab tests where I scuff tested, chemical/mar tested, and saw how various paints compared. I’ve also checked up on old projects to see how the paint has held up.
> 
> ...


I have dozens of pictures spraying cabinets With Advance over the past 8 years. I'm not sure what your hate on is for it but I've never had any callbacks and they all look like a sheet of glass, so whatever. Go gettem Tiger. And for the record, pretty much all of the 1 part alkyd modified urethanes will all Mar just the same. I've ran my fingernail across all of these products and not really overly impressed with any of them including Advance. However, living on an Island myself, I don't have access to alot of the fancy Italian stuff. All situational..Not sure what I did before you came along. rah rah.


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> Average full-time painter works around 260 days/year, which means you must be completing nearly 1.5 jobs each day?
> Does that sound about right to you?
> How many employees?


It sounds do-able….Home Advisor states that the national average cost for a paint job is $1902…so given 3,000 jobs over an 8 year period based on the national average, the result is roughly $700K in annual revenues, which is easily do-able for a small company with only a few employees.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Redux said:


> It sounds do-able….Home Advisor states that the national average cost for a paint job is $1902…so given 3,000 jobs over an 8 year period based on the national average, the result is roughly $700K in annual revenues, which is easily do-able for a small company with only a few employees.


1.5 jobs/day?
Not for the homes pictured.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

Redux said:


> It sounds do-able….Home Advisor states that the national average cost for a paint job is $1902…so given 3,000 jobs over an 8 year period based on the national average, the result is roughly $700K in annual revenues, which is easily do-able for a small company with only a few employees.


I certainly don't disagree that $700k/year is doable, but he was making reference to jobs completed, not annual revenue. I have little doubt after reading through many of your posts with pics and links that $700k annually was likely achieved by less than 75 jobs/year. He's talking about completing 300 more jobs/year than that. 

I've never had more than 17 employees, (and that was years ago), but even then I was nowhere near completing 1.5 jobs per day. There can be weeks or perhaps months where that amount might be obtainable, but day-in, day-out, every day worked for 8 consecutive years? I could only picture those type of numbers coming from someone who is either running a pretty big outfit or doing a lot of subcontracting.


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> I certainly don't disagree that $700k/year is doable, but he was making reference to jobs completed, not annual revenue. I have little doubt after reading through many of your posts with pics and links that $700k annually was likely achieved by less than 75 jobs/year. He's talking about completing 300 more jobs/year than that.
> 
> I've never had more than 17 employees, (and that was years ago), but even then I was nowhere near completing 1.5 jobs per day. There can be weeks or perhaps months where that amount might be obtainable, but day-in, day-out, every day worked for 8 consecutive years? I could only picture those type of numbers coming from someone who is either running a pretty big outfit or doing a lot of subcontracting.


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*


https://www.o2ebrands.com/brian/cnbc’s-power-pitch-why-wow-1-day-painting-next-big-thing


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> I certainly don't disagree that $700k/year is doable, but he was making reference to jobs completed, not annual revenue. I have little doubt after reading through many of your posts with pics and links that $700k annually was likely achieved by less than 75 jobs/year. He's talking about completing 300 more jobs/year than that.
> 
> I've never had more than 17 employees, (and that was years ago), but even then I was nowhere near completing 1.5 jobs per day. There can be weeks or perhaps months where that amount might be obtainable, but day-in, day-out, every day worked for 8 consecutive years? I could only picture those type of numbers coming from someone who is either running a pretty big outfit or doing a lot of subcontracting.


 That idaho painter guy does 2 in a day so it must be doable


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