# Really love BM Advance



## straight_lines

It makes me look good, and I can sell it as quality you can feel. It really invites you to rub the finish, so I know its a winner. :thumbsup:

Just finished this bathroom remodel. Shots of the advance and BM Regal Select Eggshell (still a little wet, you can see the cut line I just rolled the 2nd).. Both are HC colors. 




























I love spraying this enamel. :thumbup:


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## WarlinePainting

Nice stuff.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR

Looks good!!! Love the product too


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## johnpaint

very good


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## RCP

That looks sweet!


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## Schmidt & Co.

Very sharp!


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## TERRY365PAINTER

I really want to spec it for a cabinet job coming up on Monday . I am a little worried that it might take to long to dry .
Oak cabinets . Maybe 22 doors or more . 
Clean 1 coat of cover stain . Tinted to color then 2 coats of advance . I have about a 5 day window to get it done . I am 
Planning to spray 440i with 3/11 tip . Etc
I would like to spray everything in place . So I can do the doors both sides at once . 
Option 2 erecta rack it . Any thoughts about dry time with advance spec sheets say 16 Hr re coat time .


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## straight_lines

It dries pretty fast 1-3 hrs, cure time is much longer like acrylics.


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## dvab

*Advance dry times*

You will find the the higher the sheen and the humidity, the longer the dry time. If you use satin and you have some decent airflow, you should be tack free in an hour or so but as stated, full cure will take a week or so. As an aside, do yourself a favor and compare BM's alkyd enamel underbody or FS alkyd (217 or 024) to Cover Stain. BM's may take longer to dry but when it comes to flow and leveling, there's no comparison.


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## Paint and Hammer

Looks great. 

Is that just one of those panelled ceilings or actual T+G? 

Did you spray it with that 5500?

Did you add anything to the Advance or straight up no ice?


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## ReNt A PaInTeR

TERRY365PAINTER said:


> I really want to spec it for a cabinet job coming up on Monday . I am a little worried that it might take to long to dry .
> Oak cabinets . Maybe 22 doors or more .
> Clean 1 coat of cover stain . Tinted to color then 2 coats of advance . I have about a 5 day window to get it done . I am
> Planning to spray 440i with 3/11 tip . Etc
> I would like to spray everything in place . So I can do the doors both sides at once .
> Option 2 erecta rack it . Any thoughts about dry time with advance spec sheets say 16 Hr re coat time .


I have never seen cabinets doors spray in place.


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## 6126

Looks great. I finally got to try it recently myself and was quite impressed. I still havent had a chance to spray it, but have a job coming up soon where I will be.


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## TERRY365PAINTER

I know I am excited , I have used the Kelly Moore version . It flows really nice brushing or spraying . The dry time sucks though . If I can re coat from front to back of the doors or just do the fronts in a day 
2 coats Then the erecta rack is the way to go .


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## TERRY365PAINTER

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> I have never seen cabinets doors spray in place.


Depends on the situation , if the ho is changing the hinges out . What's the problem. I prefer to spray them flat , 
Sometimes space is a real issue .


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## straight_lines

Paint and Hammer said:


> Looks great.
> 
> Is that just one of those panelled ceilings or actual T+G?
> 
> Did you spray it with that 5500?
> 
> Did you add anything to the Advance or straight up no ice?


Straight up no reduction with the 210 fft. That is MDF 4x8 sheet bead board. 



TERRY365PAINTER said:


> I know I am excited , I have used the Kelly Moore version . It flows really nice brushing or spraying . The dry time sucks though . If I can re coat from front to back of the doors or just do the fronts in a day
> 2 coats Then the erecta rack is the way to go .


Terry if you do a tack coat you can get very good coverage with one coat. I would still do a second coat the next day. The finish improves a lot as you build it up to the proper thickness. 

Any good oil primer should work great, but as mentioned BM long oil really gives you the best enamel hold out. I don't like using the Advance primer as it takes so long to cure and powder up when you sand. 

In the shop though I wouldn't hesitate to use it over oil.


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## WarlinePainting

We are seriously considering trying Advance for the trim on a high end house. Any tips on spraying with it?


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## WarlinePainting

I agree about the primer too. We use a different primer for cabinets because we didn't like the Advance primer. Our store said the same thing.


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## PatsPainting

That looks great Tommy, I have yet to try this. I have always been a little worried about the dry times. I will though be giving this a shot in a few weeks on an upcoming interior trim job. 

Pat


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## ewingpainting.net

Great work Tommy! You are right about the touch, 1st thing I noticed when my BM supplier was showing me a sample cabinet panel they have in their store. I have a video review coming up on Advance. Sprays AWSOME! I was surprised how fast it dried but yet stayed soft, slowly hardening up. I was expecting more open time. A great product, I've been specing the hell out of it since I used it. 

Again beautiful work Tommy!


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## straight_lines

WarlinePainting said:


> We are seriously considering trying Advance for the trim on a high end house. Any tips on spraying with it?


I would grab a gallon or two and play with it. What would you be using to spray with? Have had good success with my airless and a small FF tip. Depending on what you are spraying and environmental conditions you should be able to dial it in pretty easily. 

I would also use a good oil primer, I can't think of any acrylic replacement for it that gets the job done as well.

Tack coats or it will let loose on you. :thumbsup:

Oh and forgot to add like with a lot of the new gennex paints you should be stirring regularly.


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## RH

Anyone ran this through an HVLP yet? Results?
Thanks,
Dan


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## straight_lines

I didn't have a big enough needle. I did try it thou. 

Will put some in the gravity gun in the shop when I build this piece next week, and let you know.


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## TERRY365PAINTER

Straight lines , just talk to the bm rep here in Austin . He said people having been using the aqua lock wb for primer . Instead of going the oil route . Ie cover stain he also said cover stain fail,for some 
Painters ? Err not sure if I believe him or not . I do have a graco 3800 hlvp if I used it . What would be the best needle size .30 the 3 size . I just might go the airless route . Ah decisions humm . I am meeting the home owner real soon . I will find out more .


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## straight_lines

I didn't use cover stain, I used SW easy sand hb. BM oil primer would work, don't know why your rep wouldn't suggest you use that. I had reasons for using oil, bare plywood, and popular were two of them. 

As far as a needle to spray advance I will be able to tell you tomorrow evening after I spray something in the shop.


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## TERRY365PAINTER

I have never had a problem with cover stain . Tinted some today . He did suggest a bm primer and the aqua lock by ""insulx " spelling wrong . It sucks really no place to spray the doors . Lucky the ho is changing out the hinges . So I guess I am spraying everything in place . Oh well . 
Some people just have to much stuff in their garage .


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## RH

TERRY365PAINTER said:


> Straight lines , just talk to the bm rep here in Austin . He said people having been using the aqua lock wb for primer . Instead of going the oil route . Ie cover stain he also said cover stain fail,for some
> Painters ? Err not sure if I believe him or not . I do have a graco 3800 hlvp if I used it . What would be the best needle size .30 the 3 size . I just might go the airless route . Ah decisions humm . I am meeting the home owner real soon . I will find out more .


My FUJI supplier recommended a four. But I haven't had much luck spraying most latexes.


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## Dunbar Painting

what is a "tack coat"?


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## Paint and Hammer

Dunbar Painting said:


> what is a "tack coat"?


TJ has your back on this one....

http://www.painttalk.com/f6/tack-coats-15818/


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## TERRY365PAINTER

Shot these today, first coat . Thinned it down just a bit with water . Notice the Wagner it shot the primer so good . I figure I try it out . It level out great . But for the finish coats I will most likely end up 
Using the Titan . Advance semi gloss . 
Sea green .


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## straight_lines

Looks good, you will be waiting 72 hrs before that primer will powder.


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## straight_lines

So it appears to be a 2.5 for spraying Advance in a gravity gun. About 31 psi and half flow on this primer gun really put this finish down super flat. 

I sprayed the other piece with my airless co lp540 210 fft. 1750 psi.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/1OJN9_nX3Fb3fCPZoCWc_50BdTI0rxhJjJMSV9QL0Lk?feat=directlink

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/9TxCkVU-FkHMQXuGt_4Tp50BdTI0rxhJjJMSV9QL0Lk?feat=directlink


https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/M-a08N53qcfLh2pW_fEsOJ0BdTI0rxhJjJMSV9QL0Lk?feat=directlink

The shop sprayed gravity gun piece looked better so I waited four days and sanded the airless sprayed on down and resprayed in the shop. It was still a very nice finish though, and wouldn't have had to do so if the other one didn't look that much better.


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## Paint and Hammer

Thanks....its posts and follow ups like this that make PT gold!


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## TERRY365PAINTER

I love it . Advance semi gloss shot w 3/ 10 ff tip 2 coats 3 coats doors


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## ColorScapes Painting

*Cabinet and Millwork Coatings - Nothing better than HVLP and Waterborne Lacquer*

Up here in Canada we shoot waterborne low voc lacquers from Becker Acroma (owned by Sherwin Williams now) - fast dry time - 1hr to stack, great burn in, easy clean up, low voc and easy to clean HVLP cup guns.

We buy a product called Akvatopp Satin and it is unreal in quality - you can spray, wait 45 min spray another coat, wait 1 hr and pack your cabinets in plastic and take to job site and install 1 hr later.

Stuff is unreal - check out my blog at colorscapespainting.blogspot.com
I have been using Beckers for over 5 yrs and it is AWESOME for cabinets
and millwork. Prices are around 50-60.00 per gallon. Comes ready to spray consistency. Use Akvasurf primer under Akvatopp Finish and your clients will be BLOWN away !








Cheers
ColorScapes Painting
Certified Coatings Consultant since 1988


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## 6126

straight_lines said:


> Straight up no reduction with the 210 fft. That is MDF 4x8 sheet bead board.
> 
> 
> 
> Terry if you do a tack coat you can get very good coverage with one coat. I would still do a second coat the next day. The finish improves a lot as you build it up to the proper thickness.


 That answers my question. :thumbsup: I was curious if it would shoot an even pattern through a .010 tip. 310 is what I was hoping to use.


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## RH

ColorScapes Painting said:


> Up here in Canada we shoot waterborne low voc lacquers from Becker Acroma (owned by Sherwin Williams now) - fast dry time - 1hr to stack, great burn in, easy clean up, low voc and easy to clean HVLP cup guns.
> 
> We buy a product called Akvatopp Satin and it is unreal in quality - you can spray, wait 45 min spray another coat, wait 1 hr and pack your cabinets in plastic and take to job site and install 1 hr later.
> 
> Stuff is unreal - check out my blog at colorscapespainting.blogspot.com
> I have been using Beckers for over 5 yrs and it is AWESOME for cabinets
> and millwork. Prices are around 50-60.00 per gallon. Comes ready to spray consistency. Use Akvasurf primer under Akvatopp Finish and your clients will be BLOWN away !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers
> ColorScapes Painting
> Certified Coatings Consultant since 1988


So you are using the Akvatopp Precatalyzed White on cabinets? I'm looking for something to use on doors, trim, and cabinets that will spray nicely through my HVLP. Sounds like this could be a product worth looking into.
Is there a learning curve when first using it or is it pretty straightforward to work with?
Thanks,
Dan


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## prototype66

So Advance works well with a 310 ff tip ? Light passes for a tack coat right?
What about Japan Drier or Penetrol, will those types of additives still work with it for say an HVLP?
I have not seen the product yet.


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## straight_lines

Do not add any solvents/driers or extenders like penetrol. This is a wb oil hybrid.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR

Use XIM Latex extender


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## JoseyWales

ColorScapes Painting said:


> Up here in Canada we shoot waterborne low voc lacquers from Becker Acroma (owned by Sherwin Williams now) - fast dry time - 1hr to stack, great burn in, easy clean up, low voc and easy to clean HVLP cup guns.
> 
> We buy a product called Akvatopp Satin and it is unreal in quality - you can spray, wait 45 min spray another coat, wait 1 hr and pack your cabinets in plastic and take to job site and install 1 hr later.
> 
> Stuff is unreal - check out my blog at colorscapespainting.blogspot.com
> I have been using Beckers for over 5 yrs and it is AWESOME for cabinets
> and millwork. Prices are around 50-60.00 per gallon. Comes ready to spray consistency. Use Akvasurf primer under Akvatopp Finish and your clients will be BLOWN away !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers
> ColorScapes Painting
> Certified Coatings Consultant since 1988



Will any HVLP sprayers work with that product?..I've tried using my 4 stage turbine HVLP with other waterborne lacquers and I get orange peel or other problems.....I just can't seem to get it set up properly for a nice finish and believe me I tried everything...I also tried both a 1.4 mm and 2.0 mm nozzle....I even bought an extra 25 feet of hose to cool the turbine air.

What exactly is your setup from the nozzle to air pressure to pot pressure?

Maybe I'll try my airless to spray the waterborne lacquer next.

Have you tried ML Cambell's aqualente?


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## ColorScapes Painting

Try this setup

HVLP Gravity Gun
Standard Needle Set
5% reduction with lukewarm water
Dial your compressor down to 20psi-22psi
You might be getting orange peel bc there is too much air blowing across surface...
Are you spraying cabinets on the flat ? If not you should be...
Do not paint cabinets in upright position ever, they will curtain and sag
Uninstall all cabinets, strip and label hardware, then sand, clean and begin finishing....

You will love being able to get 3-4 coats on in 1 day, handling them in 1hr and stacking for reinstall in 3hrs....


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## RaleighPainter

ColorScapes Painting said:


> Try this setup
> 
> HVLP Gravity Gun
> Standard Needle Set
> 5% reduction with lukewarm water
> Dial your compressor down to 20psi-22psi
> You might be getting orange peel bc there is too much air blowing across surface...
> Are you spraying cabinets on the flat ? If not you should be...
> Do not paint cabinets in upright position ever, they will curtain and sag
> Uninstall all cabinets, strip and label hardware, then sand, clean and begin finishing....
> 
> You will love being able to get 3-4 coats on in 1 day, handling them in 1hr and stacking for reinstall in 3hrs....


You shouldn't be re-installing cabinets finished with advance after 3 hours imo.


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## straight_lines

Yea I didn't find the finish was cured enough to risk stacking for a while. It is usually humid here though.


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## RH

Julian&co said:


> You shouldn't be re-installing cabinets finished with advance after 3 hours imo.


I think his response was in regards to this product - not the Advance:

_"ColorScapes Painting;264555]Up here in Canada we shoot waterborne low voc lacquers from Becker Acroma (owned by Sherwin Williams now) - fast dry time - 1hr to stack, great burn in, easy clean up, low voc and easy to clean HVLP cup guns.

We buy a product called Akvatopp Satin and it is unreal in quality - you can spray, wait 45 min spray another coat, wait 1 hr and pack your cabinets in plastic and take to job site and install 1 hr later.

Stuff is unreal - check out my blog at colorscapespainting.blogspot.com
I have been using Beckers for over 5 yrs and it is AWESOME for cabinets
and millwork. Prices are around 50-60.00 per gallon. Comes ready to spray consistency. Use Akvasurf primer under Akvatopp Finish and your clients will be BLOWN away !







"
Cheers_[/I]


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## JoseyWales

researchhound said:


> I think his response was in regards to this product - not the Advance:
> 
> _"ColorScapes Painting;264555]Up here in Canada we shoot waterborne low voc lacquers from Becker Acroma (owned by Sherwin Williams now) - fast dry time - 1hr to stack, great burn in, easy clean up, low voc and easy to clean HVLP cup guns.
> 
> We buy a product called Akvatopp Satin and it is unreal in quality - you can spray, wait 45 min spray another coat, wait 1 hr and pack your cabinets in plastic and take to job site and install 1 hr later.
> 
> Stuff is unreal - check out my blog at colorscapespainting.blogspot.com
> I have been using Beckers for over 5 yrs and it is AWESOME for cabinets
> and millwork. Prices are around 50-60.00 per gallon. Comes ready to spray consistency. Use Akvasurf primer under Akvatopp Finish and your clients will be BLOWN away !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "
> Cheers_[/I]


Anyone else try that Akvatopp Satin?....It should be easy to find if SW owns it.


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## RH

JoseyWales said:


> Anyone else try that Akvatopp Satin?....It should be easy to find if SW owns it.


I've been meaning to speak with my SW rep but haven't yet done so. Will let you know what I find out.
Here's a link: http://www.beckeracroma.com/Templates/Pages/ApplicationAreaPage.aspx?id=3883&epslanguage=en


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## more_prep

I've tried Akvatopp and most other waterborne lacquers. It does spray
very easily, without problems in both compliant (med. pressure, high
transfer efficiency) conversion guns and AAA. However, I like SW Kem Aqua
better. Kem Aqua is even easier to spray, half the cost, and dries to a 
harder, slicker finish. There is a new version, Kem Aqua Plus, which seems 
to be a sort of retarded version of Kem Aqua that can be sprayed with
less than 2% thinning. However, it does not achieve the final hardness of
Kem Aqua. 

I love the Becker Acroma waterborne primer, though (except
that it settles in the can rapidly). It dries very quickly and sands easily
to a fine powder in about 30 min. Was using it as my go-to primer for
a while. Now Kem Aqua Plus surfacer performs similarly, as does
Aqualente, and they stay mixed.

I've used Kem Aqua on architectural trim, and because of the quick flash-off,
it can be challenging. It also does not like to have anything soft under it,
such as caulk. It will crack and bubble over anything soft. Thinking of
trying Advance for trim, but worried about sags and the very slow dry and
cure times (I've seen semi-gloss take 6 months to harden fully at 65 F).
At the same time, the long open time might make it easier to spray, say,
door casings without having the overspray dry before you can get to the
other side.

It's hard to beat the final finish of Kem Aqua pigmented lacquer or Advance
in a waterborne, though, in both appearance, smoothness, and hardness.


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## JoseyWales

more_prep said:


> I've tried Akvatopp and most other waterborne lacquers. It does spray
> very easily, without problems in both compliant (med. pressure, high
> transfer efficiency) conversion guns and AAA. However, I like SW Kem Aqua
> better. Kem Aqua is even easier to spray, half the cost, and dries to a
> harder, slicker finish. There is a new version, Kem Aqua Plus, which seems
> to be a sort of retarded version of Kem Aqua that can be sprayed with
> less than 2% thinning. However, it does not achieve the final hardness of
> Kem Aqua.
> 
> I love the Becker Acroma waterborne primer, though (except
> that it settles in the can rapidly). It dries very quickly and sands easily
> to a fine powder in about 30 min. Was using it as my go-to primer for
> a while. Now Kem Aqua Plus surfacer performs similarly, as does
> Aqualente, and they stay mixed.
> 
> I've used Kem Aqua on architectural trim, and because of the quick flash-off,
> it can be challenging. It also does not like to have anything soft under it,
> such as caulk. It will crack and bubble over anything soft. Thinking of
> trying Advance for trim, but worried about sags and the very slow dry and
> cure times (I've seen semi-gloss take 6 months to harden fully at 65 F).
> At the same time, the long open time might make it easier to spray, say,
> door casings without having the overspray dry before you can get to the
> other side.
> 
> It's hard to beat the final finish of Kem Aqua pigmented lacquer or Advance
> in a waterborne, though, in both appearance, smoothness, and hardness.


All door and window casings have caulking...Not sure i want to try it after that explanation...Maybe the Kem Aqua plus tolerates caulking better because it is softer?..How do they spray with an airless?


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## RH

more_prep said:


> I've tried Akvatopp and most other waterborne lacquers. It does spray
> very easily, without problems in both compliant (med. pressure, high
> transfer efficiency) conversion guns and AAA. However, I like SW Kem Aqua
> better. Kem Aqua is even easier to spray, half the cost, and dries to a
> harder, slicker finish. There is a new version, Kem Aqua Plus, which seems
> to be a sort of retarded version of Kem Aqua that can be sprayed with
> less than 2% thinning. However, it does not achieve the final hardness of
> Kem Aqua.
> 
> I love the Becker Acroma waterborne primer, though (except
> that it settles in the can rapidly). It dries very quickly and sands easily
> to a fine powder in about 30 min. Was using it as my go-to primer for
> a while. Now Kem Aqua Plus surfacer performs similarly, as does
> Aqualente, and they stay mixed.
> 
> I've used Kem Aqua on architectural trim, and because of the quick flash-off,
> it can be challenging. It also does not like to have anything soft under it,
> such as caulk. It will crack and bubble over anything soft. Thinking of
> trying Advance for trim, but worried about sags and the very slow dry and
> cure times (I've seen semi-gloss take 6 months to harden fully at 65 F).
> At the same time, the long open time might make it easier to spray, say,
> door casings without having the overspray dry before you can get to the
> other side.
> 
> It's hard to beat the final finish of Kem Aqua pigmented lacquer or Advance
> in a waterborne, though, in both appearance, smoothness, and hardness.


Have you sprayed the Kem Aqua out of an HVLP? If so - results?


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## more_prep

JoseyWales said:


> All door and window casings have caulking...Not sure i want to try it after that explanation...Maybe the Kem Aqua plus tolerates caulking better because it is softer?..How do they spray with an airless?


I keep my caulking to a minimum...I do caulk, but wipe most of it clean. I've
had good luck with Phenoseal. I've sprayed a number of casings with Kem Aqua,
and only had a problem with the caulking in a couple of areas. But it's something
to be wary of. Yes, I was also thinking that a softer or slower curing coating
might be more tolerant...

Waterborne lacquers are coatings made for shop application on cabinets, 
and they're great for that. Much faster dry times, no blocking, better 
mar resistance and hardness, and faster cure than architectural enamels...
One nice thing about it is that you can sand out sags in an hour and
respray right then and there. 

Regarding spraying with an airless, I use AAA guns of various makes. 
I've sprayed without air using a FF tip, and the results were good. I've
read reports from others who got good results with an airless. My typical
AAA setup is 600 psi fluid, 20 psi air, and a 0.007" to 0.011" orifice, with
various fan widths. I really don't see an improvement with fine finish
double orifice tips, but maybe that's because of the lower pressure I run.
The leveling and flow out is excellent, just apply a nice wet coat, but
not so wet it sags.

I would say the only way to know is to try it -- but try it in the shop first, not
on a job... I don't want to give a general recommendation for trim --
I just haven't used it enough yet -- but waterborne lacquer has a lot 
going for it.


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## more_prep

researchhound said:


> Have you sprayed the Kem Aqua out of an HVLP? If so - results?


I don't have a turbine HVLP, but I have tried a Binks Mach 1 conversion gun.
It worked ok on horizontal surfaces, but vertical surfaces were hard to get 
a good finish on. I was using around 40 psi air and a 1.3 mm fluid tip, with
about 8 psi on the pot. It seems that HVLP conversion guns just do not
supply enough energy to atomize pigmented waterborne coatings. I 
switched to a "compliant" gun (Devilbiss CVI), and it atomizes much better.
Compliant guns use higher pressure than HVLP, but still have an HVLP
transfer rate.

I'm using both pressure and gravity feed guns with 1.2mm tips at 29 psi, thinning
to 45 sec in a Ford 4 viscosity cup. I know that sounds like a small tip size,
but it seems to make smaller droplets. I'm thinking maybe a 1.4mm or 1.5mm
would give better flow and allow me to move faster.

I have no experience with turbine HVLP's, but it seems like you might
need a four or five stage to get enough pressure at the air cap. Anyway,
if you can spray latex enamels with good results, it will be easier to spray
waterborne lacquer.

That's only my experience, and everyone is different and has different
skill levels (I haven't sprayed that long...).

I'd love to hear other points of view...


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