# To Size or not to size??



## salmangeri

Hi,

 The project I just completed went well. However I would like to know is there a sizing that will give me more open time along the double cuts? It seems in typical redo commercial work it is too labor intensive to scrub off the old adhesive. They sand off the adhesive to a point and apply white Shields. But this does not leave much open time at the double cuts. If I don't get it in time (due to multiple wraps and cuts) the paste from the paper works through the primer and starts to moisten the old paste so that as I pull off the scrap strips in the double cut part, the sizing along with the old adhesive starts to pull off as well. This makes for a rough surface under the seam. My question is when the old vinyl is removed and sanded should it be sized at all?? Or should it be sized with oil base or another type primer other than shields?? Thanks for your help!


Sal


----------



## ProWallGuy

"Sizing" is a thinned down paste. Nobody "sizes" anymore except for the occasional historical reproduction type w/c install over plaster. The correct term is priming. The correct product would be referred to as a pre-wallcovering primer.

In your situation, using Zinsser's Gardz rather than Shieldz would work much better at sealing in the old adhesive and allowing longer open time for double cuts.


----------



## salmangeri

Pro Wall,

Is the residue of paste form the previous job enough to hang over? This would be commercial vinyl that has been stripped. So the original paste is probably some type of clay or clear adhesive. Pre-wallcovering primer..........now that's "a mouthful".

Thanks

Sal


----------



## ProWallGuy

Depends. On a residential job, I clean off the old paste, and start with a fresh surface. 

On a commercial job, rarely will the budget allow me to do it the same. So yes, if the paste is even and consistent, I would most likely go right over it.


----------



## salmangeri

Pro Wall Guy,

Thanks for you help.

Sal


----------



## [email protected]

At the same time It will grap your wall cover and not let you move it even a little bite. I have been pole sanding the old glue some thing like a 36 grit and then a coat of Zinnser Grads


----------



## salmangeri

David,

Thanks for your reply........ do mean Zinsser Gradz instead of Zinsser Grads?? I kinda thought that might happen if the old paste is not primed. Like hanging contact paper. 

Sal


----------



## chrisn

do mean Zinsser Gradz instead of Zinsser Grads?? 


????????????:blink::blink::blink::blink::blink:


----------



## salmangeri

Thanks,

Three confirmations of using the same product is good enough for me. One of the contractors I corresponded with says he "hates Shieldz" is there something else that you would recommend in it's place as pre-wallcovering primer?

Sal


----------



## ProWallGuy

salmangeri said:


> is there something else that you would recommend in it's place as pre-wallcovering primer?
> 
> Sal


Gardz. :thumbsup:


----------



## daArch

Or if you are in an area that sells it, (not sure they have it in your part of the country, Sal) Draw-tite is superior to Gardz. It's the original. It's what Zinsser reversed engineered to copy. It's what has more solids and resins than that knock-off, Gardz . It's the best. 

-Bill


----------



## [email protected]

If you have the time line Draw-tite is on SW buy list. A speller I am not but thanks for all of the help The sad thing is my youngest daughter is in the same boat. Thank god for spell check.


----------



## salmangeri

Which Draw-tite product do you guys recommend? Clear.........Clear /no run
or white? 

Sal


----------



## daArch

Sal,

So you know about Draw-Tite - that's good.

The original (clear) is thin - thinner than water, kinda like Gardz - and, IMO, a pain to apply without dripping. Although there is a technique. The no-run is clear and much more "fun" to apply. The white is no-run with a little tint, not enough to make a difference, again, IMO.

The word on the street is that the white and no-run don't penetrate as good, irre*gardz*less  of what the marketers say. Some have been known to miz a little no-run with the original (clear) to get optimum application and penetration. But like most painters/paperhangers, I am not apt to play home chemist and mix products


----------



## salmangeri

Bill,

I know the product only through Google. I don't recall seeing the product in this neck of the woods. I will most likely order it on-line if I have to.
Enjoy your weekend.

Sal


----------



## daArch

Sal,

It's a lot cheaper when you order a bunch. And split the order with others. As I told you via email, there are NGPP members near you. I don't know how protective you are of your location on a public forum, but someone here who lives 30 miles north *may* want to go in on it with you. But it's not for me to divulge your location. 

-Bill


----------



## chrisn

I will most likely order it on-line if I have to.

Order form here 
http://www.safeandsimple.com/

it is a whole lot easier than dealing with Scotch Paint.


----------



## salmangeri

Bill,

It is no problem to post I live in Winchester,VA. Chrisn, it would be nice to be able to purchase draw-tite locally to avoid shipping charges. Maybe I can get one of the local paint stores to carry it. That's why this one local store here started carrying Gardz because one of the paper hangers requested it.

Sal


----------



## ProWallGuy

Sal, I've been to your quaint little town. Had to pick up some Gardz at the Sherwin Williams there. Myself and a couple other hangers installed some murals at the casino in Charlestown several years back. :thumbsup:


----------



## [email protected]

Here is Draw tite web site http://www.scotchpaint.com/drawtite.html


----------



## HomeGuardPaints

I asked my wife----Size doesn't matter



I know lame but someone had to do it


----------



## salmangeri

Home Guard,

That was actually pretty good! Now come up with one for Draw-tite!


Sal


----------



## Daddyoh2008

Oh man, I hate wall paper. I've never heard of the methods you guys are talking about. Everytime I have to remove it I nash and grit my teeth. Sometimes I get lucky, and it comes right off. But I can never tell before hand. 
I recently had to skim coat everywhere after removing because I could not get the paper to release, and it pulled off most of the wallboard covering. Then I talked to a guy that had removed a lot of it, and he thought there were ways to do it quickly and cleanly in almost every instance. Where was he when I did that job?
You guys are are talking about putting up the beast. I would think that in this new century that people would think wall paper was quaint and out of fashion. Obviously I'm wrong about that. 
Any advise on how to get it off cleanly (how many kinds of wall paper are there anyway?) would be greatly appreciated.
Also, I have talked to a few people that remove it from time to time, and they seem to think that a good rate for that is .75/ft. That seemed like more than anyone was willing to pay, but I would probably do a lot more of it if I could get that.


----------



## daArch

Daddy (may I call you daddy:thumbup

First, welcome.

Second -DON'T HATE wallpaper. Some of us earn a living installing it :thumbsup:

Third, for all your stripping needs and you don't want to do it yourself, may I recommend subbing it to Safe and Simple in Pasadena?

If it can come off the walls, Mike and the boys will git er done.

Tell him Bill Archibald recommended him to you. And he may give you the time of day 

No seriously, Mike's one of the best. He's invented his own solution and sells it. He's a member of The National Guild of Professional Paperhangers and is forever giving us hints and tips on how to strip more effectively.

go to www.safeandsimple.com and click on *Contact Us* (at the bottom) for contact info in your area.

There has been many discussions on Paint Talk about wallpaper stripping. One thread is this one:

http://www.painttalk.com/showthread.php?t=2166

If walls are prepared correctly, wallpaper can be stripped quite easily. My _average_ is 1min/s.f. Easy strips take about 50 sec/s.f. - that's from first step into the room to clean and out. 

If residential paper is on top of unprimed sheetrock, it's there for keeps. Go find some Draw-tite (Scotch paints, Gardena, CA) and seal it and start new. (Commercial vinyl is often installed on top of raw rock, but with "strippable" adhesive)


----------



## salmangeri

DaddyOh,

For me I've found the best method for removing wall paper is to take a blow torch no jess kiddin.....take an orbital sander with 80 grit or less and sand the surface. The papers have a coating on them so water will not penetrate the surface. Sanding the surface (and I don't mean sanding off the wall paper just a light once over) makes the surface of the wall paper pourous so water can penetrate below the surface to get to the liner /paste. I attach my orbital to a small shop -vac with an additional drywall paper filter in it. You'll especially need the vac if you are sanding dark colored wallpaper. If you don't remove the dust residue after sanding dark papers they will run once the stripper hits it and most likely stain the floors (even grout) below the drop cloth. This method works nicely as paper tigers tend to score the surface of the dry wall as well in the process of scoring and the stripper solution gets into the surface of the dry wall as well. Sanding does not pierce the drywall and so the stripper doesn't have a chance to loosen it in the strippng process. For estimates or quotes I usually do a test behind a piece of furniture or in a spot that no one will see. I've even remove large pictures to do a test patch. Most HO's will allow you to do this. I've found if this method doesn't work then plan "B" is to seal over the wall paper with a quick dry oil (still legal here) base primer. Cut out any bubbles that might appear during the priming and spackle the seams. That's my take hope this helps.

Sal


----------

