# 19 doors and counting. Exterior Behr Covers.



## Surreal Painting

Started on top left of the window grid. Remembered to snap a photo  Dark burgundy. Product is Behr Ultra Exterior mate, Color Balanced beige SW. Product covered extremely well. Had no problems with it. Doors were painted a few times previously so it didn't matter if I brushed or rolled them. Painted 19 doors this week. 16 for 1 job and 3 for another. The group of 16 all were front doors and thus 16 owners who had to be happy with the results. No complaints.:thumbup:

1st coat photo. 

2nd coat 

This one is from the other Job. Another redish door. Again light over dark...again 2 coats no problem. 



Will post the second coat of this other door tomorrow. That is when I will finish the rest of the job and take photos of the whole project.


Take it how you wanna take it. Behr Ultra Exterior covers.


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## RH

I am so tempted to cork this bottle right away.


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## Surreal Painting

All i see is talk when people complain about a product. Here is actual work and you can see it did its job. Thats all I'm showing is the coverage. 

Proof is in the pudding.


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## stelzerpaintinginc.

RH said:


> I am so tempted to cork this bottle right away.



Well, you know what will happen if left un-corked. I'm about to chime in on keeping a wet edge for starters. Poking the Behr is such low-hanging fruit, I just can't even pick it.


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## Surreal Painting

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> RH said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am so tempted to cork this bottle right away.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you know what will happen if left un-corked. I'm about to chime in on keeping a wet edge for starters. Poking the Behr is such low-hanging fruit, I just can't even pick it.
Click to expand...

Edge wasn't allowed to solidify before I got back to it. The edge is wet. haha well I could have done better with the brush work sure. Long week so idk either way they were getting 2 coats with or with out the wet edge. Sanded in between, not a big deal really.

This is more on coverage then my brush work but thanks for the constructive criticism.


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## PaintersUnite

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> Well, you know what will happen if left un-corked. I'm about to chime in on keeping a wet edge for starters. Poking the Behr is such low-hanging fruit, I just can't even pick it.


I see you are an advocate of BEHR paint and promote it on your web site! 
Good job bro! :thumbsup:


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## stelzerpaintinginc.

That was added by my old marketing company that I stopped using about a year ago. As I've mentioned to you before, no improvements or changes have been made to my site since, (although certainly needed).


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## PaintersUnite

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> Well, you know what will happen if left un-corked. *I'm about to chime in on keeping a wet edge for starters.* Poking the Behr is such low-hanging fruit, I just can't even pick it.


It takes less than 30 seconds to put the brush down, snap a shot, and then pick up the brush, and continue where he left off. And I'm willing to bet that the paint edge was still went after the pic was snapped. But then again, I see the positive in his post, not the negative.


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## PaintersUnite

Surreal Painting said:


> Edge wasn't allowed to solidify before I got back to it. The edge is wet. haha well I could have done better with the brush work sure. Long week so idk either way they were getting 2 coats with or with out the wet edge. Sanded in between, not a big deal really.
> 
> This is more on coverage then my brush work but thanks for the constructive criticism.


I follow you bud. You wanted to snap a pic for the forum skeptics, showing that it was only one coat.


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## stelzerpaintinginc.

PaintersUnite said:


> It takes less than 30 seconds to put the brush down, snap a shot, and then pick up the brush, and continue where he left off. And I'm willing to bet that the paint edge was still went after the pic was snapped. But then again, I see the positive in his post, not the negative.



I think it's wonderful you're seeing the positive in a post. Keep up the good work.


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## chrisn

no comment, except it could be any paint in the world, we don't know:whistling2:


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## Lambrecht

Doors look good. I have used Behr a couple of times and it did cover very well but it was like spreading Elmers glue. Way to thick and had to really work to get it to spread out. Its been a few years so maybe they have gotten that worked out I don't know. On a side note, you have got some serious camel toe in the reflection of your first pic.:blink:


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## daArch

I could finger paint yellow over blue and shoot a pic that made it look like good coverage, good leveling, and no flashing. 


I'm sorry, photos don't prove quality of paint, prep, or technique


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## The Cutting Edge

Those doors look good. I have to agree with Lambrecht. Last time I used Behr I just had to work harder to get it on compared to other paints. Good job man. Guys got some balls to post that on here. :thumbup:


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## Surreal Painting

:thumbsup:


chrisn said:


> no comment, except it could be any paint in the world, we don't know:whistling2:


That is true, except you can see a can in one of the shots. Hard to make out what it is but you can see I have nothing to hide. Being of Christ I usually tend to not lye. Especially to people I respect even though our individual opinions vary.

Was super impressed with the second photo that is first coat of 1 of the 19 over that burgundy. 1st coat coverage was much better then I expected in a good way ofc. Also didn't recoat the doors on this project till maybe 2 hours after first coat (takes a while painting 19 doors with window w/grids). It did sand to a powder and not gummy, remember this is exterior Matte i'm not sure each sheen will do that.



Just started using this paint a bit ago, Maybe 3 months now. Just did some test at home, played with the paint a bit to make see it could do. Think these will be the 2nd and 3rd job done with them(Behr) and it meets every thing I'm looking for. 

I do (nowadays) test every product before brining it out into the field. Surprises are things I try to avoid with craftsmanship. Like using breakthrough for the first time. Brought it home and found out what I can and cannot do with it. What its characteristics are and how to use it. Very glad I started doing this with all products now.

Alright back to work I go. Y'all enjoy your day. :thumbsup:


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## Surreal Painting

daArch said:


> I could finger paint yellow over blue and shoot a pic that made it look like good coverage, good leveling, and no flashing.
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, photos don't prove quality of paint, prep, or technique


That is true except I did use a brush as you can clearly see the evidence suggests. 

Photos don't hold up in court the way they used to. I have no photoshop skills or time to mess around being fake. These are real photos of work I just did. One of the photos is of a door mid paint so you can get a feel that I'm not trying to blow smoke. 

No reason to lye. Believe it or not.


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## PACman

Surreal Painting said:


> Started on top left of the window grid. Remembered to snap a photo  Dark burgundy. Product is Behr Ultra Exterior mate, Color Balanced beige SW. Product covered extremely well. Had no problems with it. Doors were painted a few times previously so it didn't matter if I brushed or rolled them. Painted 19 doors this week. 16 for 1 job and 3 for another. The group of 16 all were front doors and thus 16 owners who had to be happy with the results. No complaints.:thumbup:
> 
> 1st coat photo.
> 
> 2nd coat
> 
> This one is from the other Job. Another redish door. Again light over dark...again 2 coats no problem.
> 
> 
> 
> Will post the second coat of this other door tomorrow. That is when I will finish the rest of the job and take photos of the whole project.
> 
> 
> Take it how you wanna take it. Behr Ultra Exterior covers.


personally I don't think I have ever had a problem with how any of the Behr products actually cover. They actually cover pretty well. Doors look good, customer happy, paycheck in hand(I hope), it's all good.


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## PACman

RH said:


> I am so tempted to cork this bottle right away.


Why? He's just showing his work and telling which product he used. No reason to jump on the guy for satisfying his customer. The work and time it takes to do work like this is where he makes his money. Meet or exceed the customers expectations. That's what it's all about remember. (no matter how long it takes!)


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## PACman

Surreal Painting said:


> All i see is talk when people complain about a product. Here is actual work and you can see it did its job. Thats all I'm showing is the coverage.
> 
> Proof is in the pudding.


I decided several weeks ago not to voice my complaints on paint products on PT anymore. As long as the paying consumers keep coming to me to complain about a competitors products I am all good. Just keep up the good work.


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## PACman

Lambrecht said:


> Doors look good. I have used Behr a couple of times and it did cover very well but it was like spreading Elmers glue. Way to thick and had to really work to get it to spread out. Its been a few years so maybe they have gotten that worked out I don't know. On a side note, you have got some serious camel toe in the reflection of your first pic.:blink:


Isn't this what paint is supposed to be like? I mean, wouldn't it be a lot easier to use a product that laid out when you applied it and cut in real nice and smooth without a ****load of drag so you have to sand the crap out of it for your second coat? That would save time wouldn't it? Less labor more money? Or doesn't that apply any more? Just curious. (and just responding to your post to put in my two cents worth.)


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## PACman

The Cutting Edge said:


> Those doors look good. I have to agree with Lambrecht. Last time I used Behr I just had to work harder to get it on compared to other paints. Good job man. Guys got some balls to post that on here. :thumbup:


How is that relevant to making money? I wonder.:jester:


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## PACman

Being a retailer this post really makes me wonder why people would pay $30-40 a quart to use FPE? Hmmmmm. You may bicker amongst yourselves. I have customers complaining about the competitors paint they used last time. $$$$$$$$$$$!


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## daArch

I am real happy that some folks can buy less expensive paint (by what? $10/gal) and work it so it covers to the satisfaction of their customers.

I was even persuaded to test Behr Premium Plus Ultra (my first question was WHY so many superlatives in one name? - why not just Behr Premium, Behr Plus, OR Behr Ultra? ). I tested on my own home. I prepped the interior trim as usual, the color change was not a drastic change in whites. The glaring fault of Behr I saw was that it didn't even cover itself to my standards of finickiness. 

As with any paint there is an application learning curve. And yes because Behr sets up so quickly, you can't dawdle. But I learned it quickly and the actual application was better than many cheap builder quality paints. 

But about a year later, some flat surfaces started to flash. 

And I am noticing that even after two years the windows stick where the head rail meets the top sash stop, AKA parting stop. And even the bottom sashes stick if left unmoved for a few months. 

Seriously I am happy for all of you who have customers willing to pay for the "quality" that Behr provides.


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## PACman

daArch said:


> I am real happy that some folks can buy less expensive paint (by what? $10/gal) and work it so it covers to the satisfaction of their customers.
> 
> I was even persuaded to test Behr Premium Plus Ultra (my first question was WHY so many superlatives in one name? - why not just Behr Premium, Behr Plus, OR Behr Ultra? ). I tested on my own home. I prepped the interior trim as usual, the color change was not a drastic change in whites. The glaring fault of Behr I saw was that it didn't even cover itself to my standards of finickiness.
> 
> As with any paint there is an application learning curve. And yes because Behr sets up so quickly, you can't dawdle. But I learned it quickly and the actual application was better than many cheap builder quality paints.
> 
> But about a year later, some flat surfaces started to flash.
> 
> And I am noticing that even after two years the windows stick where the head rail meets the top sash stop, AKA parting stop. And even the bottom sashes stick if left unmoved for a few months.
> 
> Seriously I am happy for all of you who have customers willing to pay for the "quality" that Behr provides.


See this is when those dissatisfied consumers become MY customers. Did you call the original painter up and complain? Would you if you weren't the painter? Would most people? Nope, they wouldn't. They most likely wouldn't call back to that painter and some of them wouldn't buy the same paint brand again. The reason they wouldn't call the original painter is because A: they think the painter screwed them in the application because the behrs paint is rated number one, so it must be the painters fault.
B: The twenty year old at the Home depot told them it was an application or prep problem because they have the best paint. So therefore once again the painter screwed them.
or C: And this is my favorite, unlike my ignorant dog they can actually learn something and they realize that no matter how good it worked when it was applied, it doesn't work anymore and it is obvious to them that the PAINT is the problem. Maybe that's is when they see my adds and decide to buy a paint from someone who MIGHT actually know a little bit about what they are talking about.
How a paint looks and "works" to a painter, who doesn't have to live with it long term, is entirely different then how it looks and "works" to a homeowner who had higher expectations of the product due to the trumped up marketing. This can and will bite a painter in the ass more often then they will ever realize. they simple never hear about the problem most of the time.


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## journeymanPainter

@PaintersUnite I know your a Behr apologist so you might be able to answer this question. Why is a fiver of Behr do friggin heavy? Also thicker than most products. Not criticism, just curious. I felt like I almost through my back out the other day lifting one.


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## CApainter

Bottom line, the value of anything is trust. I'll leave it at that.


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## RH

PACman said:


> Why? He's just showing his work and telling which product he used. No reason to jump on the guy for satisfying his customer. The work and time it takes to do work like this is where he makes his money. Meet or exceed the customers expectations. That's what it's all about remember. (no matter how long it takes!)


Your comments partially underscore why it _didn't_ get corked.

Behr threads always seem to run a predictable, contentious, and tiresome course ending in a ban or two and then a closure that usually comes much too late. Still, members still seem to love participating in them, and it is summer and the living is easy, so...


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## Surreal Painting

PACman said:


> I decided several weeks ago not to voice my complaints on paint products on PT anymore. As long as the paying consumers keep coming to me to complain about a competitors products I am all good. Just keep up the good work.


 Thanks Pacman. I agree with you. Got thumbs up from 16 elders and thumbs up from a really nice home owner. Checks are coming in. If the job turned out poorly I wouldn't accept the check but since that doesn't happen often I will be receiving these ones.

Thanks for the great responses guys. 


DaArch. I agree with you on all the name extentions. Even though its just called Behr Premium Ultra. I do shorten it to Behr Ultra. Could be that we mostly have three names so they do too? Or maybe they were founded by a latin company and you know how latins like all those names (I am Latin). *Maria Teresa García Ramírez* *de Arroyo.*

Also I am not getting away with anything. Using premium paint. No upcharge on paint. My price is my price, this bid included paint in the 35$ range and if I needed a lot of extra paint I would ask them for the difference as stated in the contract, which I wont even though I did buy a few extra gallons.


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## Surreal Painting

journeymanPainter said:


> @*PaintersUnite* I know your a Behr apologist so you might be able to answer this question. Why is a fiver of Behr do friggin heavy? Also thicker than most products. Not criticism, just curious. I felt like I almost through my back out the other day lifting one.


If I understand you correctly a 5 gallon of Behr is to heavy for you? You look strong in your profile picture so that baffles me a bit. That is a compliment. 

Most say its thinner and I agree vs the stuff I'm used to using so maybe its the reverse for you. Stuff you use might be thinner and the behr is actually thicker then what your used to. However you did say thicker than most products and I would have to disagree and agree. Disagree because it is usually thinner and agree because perhaps you got a batch that was to thick and to heavy. idk

Off to my next job. 1 out of 3 done for the day. Wait till you guys see my next project its gonna be amazing and I will be open to using some thing suggested by some of you. Look for the thread in a few hours. 

Peace and thanks guys.


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## RH

PACman said:


> I decided several weeks ago not to voice my complaints on paint products on PT anymore. As long as the paying consumers keep coming to me to complain about a competitors products I am all good. Just keep up the good work.






Surreal Painting said:


> Thanks Pacman. I agree with you. Got thumbs up from 16 elders and thumbs up from a really nice home owner. Checks are coming in. If the job turned out poorly I wouldn't accept the check but since that doesn't happen often I will be receiving these ones.
> 
> Thanks for the great responses guys.



I may be totally off base, but I think you might want to reread his post. I believe there may be just a bit of sarcasm there.


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## Surreal Painting

RH said:


> I may be totally off base in my suspicions, but I think you might want to reread his post. I believe there may be just a bit of sarcasm there.


No. Seemed pretty straight forward. Not here to pick apart anything and I will take him at his word.

Thanks for all the kind remarks and harsh critiques. Company is growing and growing and its such a blessing. Very humbling actually. With each job I try to learn some thing weather its how to do some thing faster or learning what not to do or why I should do this one thing this way vs another. So many factors some times. Focus is on doing good work regardless of who my client is or isn't. I love the little jobs. I love the big jobs.

No regrets on the paint I used. It did what it was suppose to and so did I. A quality job. Even got some more work from this client as a response to how much she loves our outside work. 

Love you guys, Keep on rolling. I'm on to the next project and the next thread. Like I said look for it I will be open to using some thing suggested. So excited...I'm going to go pick this up now.


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## CApainter

I believe that was the nicest FU I ever read. LOL!


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## PRC

Surreal Painting said:


> No. Seemed pretty straight forward. Not here to pick apart anything and I will take him at his word.
> 
> Thanks for all the kind remarks and harsh critiques. Company is growing and growing and its such a blessing. Very humbling actually. With each job I try to learn some thing weather its how to do some thing faster or learning what not to do or why I should do this one thing this way vs another. So many factors some times. Focus is on doing good work regardless of who my client is or isn't. I love the little jobs. I love the big jobs.
> 
> No regrets on the paint I used. It did what it was suppose to and so did I. A quality job. Even got some more work from this client as a response to how much she loves our outside work.
> 
> Love you guys, Keep on rolling. I'm on to the next project and the next thread. Like I said look for it I will be open to using some thing suggested. So excited...I'm going to go pick this up now.


Church pew?


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## PaintersUnite

daArch said:


> I could finger paint yellow over blue and shoot a pic that made it look like good coverage, good leveling, and no flashing.
> 
> 
> *I'm sorry, photos don't prove quality of paint, prep, or technique*


But when a professional painter takes the time to start a thread explaining (in his opinion) that the doors turned out great, he had a great experience with BEHR and the 19 customers were pleased, why would you doubt his word?


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## Oden

Talked you into taking the church pew off of em huh?
IMO just one of them things it seems a shame to trash, but really......


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## PaintersUnite

Surreal Painting said:


> No. Seemed pretty straight forward. Not here to pick apart anything and I will take him at his word.
> 
> No regrets on the paint I used. It did what it was suppose to and so did I. A quality job. Even got some more work from this client as a response to how much she loves our outside work.


Surreal, I've use 100's of gallons of BEHR with 100% success. Don't let anyone here bring you down. BEHR gets the job done!


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## Surreal Painting

PRC said:


> Church pew?


Exactly what it is. I'll start a new thread about it soon. Just made room in the van. Excited to do this. Something about bringing a piece back to its former glory or above is very gratifying. This very well maybe the only piece that's left of that particular church's pews. Hoping there is some kind of builders mark on it some where. It's for a lawyer that I know through my BNI group. 

I'll get any info on it I can from the client but he may not know much as this piece is pretty old.


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## straight_lines

Cool story.


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## daArch

PaintersUnite said:


> But when a professional painter takes the time to start a thread explaining (in his opinion) that the doors turned out great, he had a great experience with BEHR and the 19 customers were pleased, why would you doubt his word?


Because I used it in MY OWN HOME and was able to closely inspect and see how the paint acted (and failed) over time. Also, I have experienced that not all "professional painters" have the same meaning of "turned out great" as I do nor the majority of my customers when I did paint.

Sorry, after 43 years in biz, I understand where on the pyramid I sit - it may not be at the tippy top, but I am in close proximity with those that do.


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## daArch

But before we take off the kid gloves or whip out our Johnson rulers, let us remember what PACman and I.P.P. said about the different mindsets of both painters and customers.

I know that there is a place for all qualities of paint, painters, and acceptance. Enough to keep all busy without threatening the livlihood of any. 

All I ask is that we call a spade a spade and stop equally comparing the lower echelon products with the top notch products. 

We really do not need to send some noob out with the notion that product B is just as good as product A and have him/her fail at this business because someone else has a different business model and is not giving information applicable to the noob's goals.


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## RH

CApainter said:


> I believe that was the nicest FU I ever read. LOL!


Yeah, although some may question his choice in paint brands, and others his ability to read between the lines, you certainly can't question his good manners. :no:


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## Surreal Painting

Well some good words here appreciate it all. It covered, that's it period. <- whole point of the thread.

How about some help? Not like I need it to get the job done but since every one is so quick to bash this or praise that. 

Offer your product knowledge or tips here. I could use x product and x method to restore it. However I'm interested to see what others would use or do. 

Can you build one up as fast as you can tear em down?? http://www.painttalk.com/f6/church-pew-restoration-48097/#post894897


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## chrisn

daArch said:


> I could finger paint yellow over blue and shoot a pic that made it look like good coverage, good leveling, and no flashing.
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, photos don't prove quality of paint, prep, or technique


That's sota what I said


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## RH

Surreal Painting said:


> Well some good words here appreciate it all. It covered, that's it period. <- whole point of the thread.
> 
> How about some help? Not like I need it to get the job done but since every one is so quick to bash this or praise that.
> 
> Offer your product knowledge or tips here. I could use x product and x method to restore it. However I'm interested to see what others would use or do.
> 
> Can you build one up as fast as you can tear em down?? http://www.painttalk.com/f6/church-pew-restoration-48097/#post894897


For the record, I have never been one to bash Behr as a product. Just not enough experience with it to have much of an opinion nor do I really care. I say use what works for you.

On the other hand, I do have a major beef with the level of service and knowledge from the paint department staff at my local HD, and only a slightly better experience record with the outlying ones. So, I just refuse to get anything from them paint related at all.

As for your current project, my local supplier has been experimenting with the Sansin line (http://www.sansin.com/) of hybrid stains. Might be worth looking into them if you have access.


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## chrisn

PaintersUnite said:


> Surreal, I've use 100's of gallons of BEHR with 100% success. Don't let anyone here bring you down. BEHR gets the job done![/QUOTE
> 
> 
> ........................:no:


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## Carl

I still say coverage has to do primarily with what color you are using and what color you are painting over. It has very little to do with the quality of the paint or the brand. Can I see a pic of you painting Behr over a black door with a bright yellow color?


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## Always Learning

Surreal Painting said:


> No. Seemed pretty straight forward. Not here to pick apart anything and I will take him at his word.
> 
> Thanks for all the kind remarks and harsh critiques. Company is growing and growing and its such a blessing. Very humbling actually. With each job I try to learn some thing weather its how to do some thing faster or learning what not to do or why I should do this one thing this way vs another. So many factors some times. Focus is on doing good work regardless of who my client is or isn't. I love the little jobs. I love the big jobs.
> 
> No regrets on the paint I used. It did what it was suppose to and so did I. A quality job. Even got some more work from this client as a response to how much she loves our outside work.
> 
> Love you guys, Keep on rolling. I'm on to the next project and the next thread. Like I said look for it I will be open to using some thing suggested. So excited...I'm going to go pick this up now.


2 Thumbs up for your attitude of not taking comments too personally. Mostly guys are just trying to help you avoid their past bad experiences. More often than not I stay in the background on this site....since contributors have a much stronger knowledge base than I, with painting only being 20% of my contracted current work, eventhough I did this full time in my past. As it appears you are a newer contributor, let me share some common sense. Never a good idea for a student to teach a master...and there are many master painters on this site. Most any homeowner or apprentice can move a brush up and down....but IMO product and application knowledge separates the men from the boys. I am extremely thankful for what the master painter(s) on here share. Where else can someone access 500+ years of painting experience on a consistent reliable site? Only a fool would discount testimony of product failure, without serious consideration to details of why. Please know that was no handyman who shared that story about paint sticking and flashing, as I have read enough of his posts to know that is a master painter, and a conscientious contributor. At the heart of all replies said in this thread is, IF this, THEN that. Clearly the majority of testimony is provided that Behr has limits, not that it is always wrong for every application. I do not know of a contributor on this site who thinks any MFR has the best product for every application. Also understand, the longer a guy is in business, which I have been for 31 years now, the less they want to risk being burned. You are wise to listen and learn...or else pay the price.


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## Gymschu

:whistling2:He didn't remove the door knob or the deadbolt before painting........just sayin'.:whistling2:


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## Clearlycut

Look ive used a ton of behr not by choice. Its a good product. My question is the color retention especially in ext products.
It looks like the color will fade easily. My 2 cents


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## CApainter

Surreal Painting said:


> *Well some good words here appreciate it all. It covered, that's it period. <- whole point of the thread*.
> 
> How about some help? Not like I need it to get the job done but since every one is so quick to bash this or praise that.
> 
> Offer your product knowledge or tips here. I could use x product and x method to restore it. However I'm interested to see what others would use or do.
> 
> Can you build one up as fast as you can tear em down?? http://www.painttalk.com/f6/church-pew-restoration-48097/#post894897


I have experienced good hide with interior flat on exterior stucco walls. What did I prove? Nothing. There is so much more to painting than hiding an existing coating with one coat of fresh paint. 

And painters wonder why homeowners are suspicious of them when the priorities are "Look! I told it would cover in one coat" 

I've used Behr. I don't trust that Behr won't run, stay soft, and leach surfactants. Why? Because I've experienced it first hand. Period.


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## PaintersUnite

daArch said:


> *I'm sorry*, photos don't prove quality of paint, prep, or technique


*I hope you're sorry. *Truth is, a close up photo from a "good camera" will show high quality work/technique or crap work/technique. This hideous paint job, on my NEW front door, is what my landlord blessed me with. Looks like (1) coat of crap, rolled with a 1/2 nap roller cover. :blink:

Please, let me see you make this crap paint job, look spectacular with your photo editor? :whistling2:


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## CApainter

Come on PU. You know as well as I do that anyone could spray a coat of glossy non self priming Behr finish over bare ferrous metal and have it look fabulous after taking a photo two minutes later. 

I agree with DaArch, photos of paint jobs don't mean diddly squat in terms of a job well done.


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## PaintersUnite

CApainter said:


> Come on PU. You know as well as I do that anyone could spray a coat of glossy non self priming Behr finish over bare ferrous metal and have it look fabulous after taking a photo two minutes later.
> 
> I agree with DaArch, photos of paint jobs don't mean diddly squat in terms of a job well done.


Do the photos I posted above look like a quality paint job? Can you see heavy roller stipple? Can you see it needs another coat?

The photos arch speaks of are taken at a distance, by amateur photographers, with a cell phone. 

Here's my front door before it was installed. At a distance it doesn't look bad. Close up?


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## PaintersUnite

I zoomed in on Surreal Painting's door. It looks pretty good to me.
And he is the one that did the work as a professional and was pleased with the results. So from one pro to another, I trust his opinion and word.


----------



## CApainter

I look at it like this, to each their own. I'm still not going to go ape **** over an internet picture of a painted door. Even if the lousy mega pixels help soften the edges. Ain't gonna do it.


----------



## PaintersUnite

CApainter said:


> I look at it like this, to each their own. I'm still not going to go ape **** over an internet picture of a painted door. Even if the lousy mega pixels help soften the edges. Ain't gonna do it.


With all due respect, I would expect a little more positivity from the first elected paint pro of the month. How anyone can judge a persons work and WORD over the internet is beyond me. 

There is no softening here, do you agree it looks like crap? This is a brand new metal door.


----------



## Damon T

daArch said:


> But before we take off the kid gloves or whip out our Johnson rulers, let us remember what PACman and I.P.P. said about the different mindsets of both painters and customers.
> 
> I know that there is a place for all qualities of paint, painters, and acceptance. Enough to keep all busy without threatening the livlihood of any.
> 
> All I ask is that we call a spade a spade and stop equally comparing the lower echelon products with the top notch products.
> 
> We really do not need to send some noob out with the notion that product B is just as good as product A and have him/her fail at this business because someone else has a different business model and is not giving information applicable to the noob's goals.



Don't you mean we don't want the noob thinking product B is just as good as product BM?!


----------



## chrisn

PaintersUnite said:


> *I hope you're sorry. *Truth is, a close up photo from a "good camera" will show high quality work/technique or crap work/technique. This hideous paint job, on my NEW front door, is what my landlord blessed me with. Looks like (1) coat of crap, rolled with a 1/2 nap roller cover. :blink:
> 
> Please, let me see you make this crap paint job, look spectacular with your photo editor? :whistling2:


perfect example of the premium, ultra, plus, stain blocking, paint and primer in one. I will not mention any specific name:no: thanks for posting this glorious example


----------



## daArch

Damon T said:


> Don't you mean we don't want the noob thinking product B is just as good as product BM?!


Well actually Damon, my real intent was "we don't want the noob thinking product *B*ehr is just as good as product *A*ura"

But I thought most would have gotten that


----------



## daArch

I'm not even going to quote the confusing posts about close up photos of bad paint and the far away photos making a bad job look good as it simply proves my point. 

Nor will I share my knowledge that a digitally magnified photo of a pic off the internet (lower resolution than what shot at) will not add nor improve details. It only magnifies the lack of detail and resolution. 

Maybe this will earn me the staring role on another youtube rant. :thumbsup:


----------



## I paint paint

daArch said:


> Maybe this will earn me the staring role on another youtube rant. :thumbsup:


I missed those. What were the previous rants about?

The vids were made about you or by you? Links?


----------



## daArch

I paint paint said:


> I missed those. What were the previous rants about?
> 
> The vids were made about you or by you? Links?


check your PM's :whistling2:


----------



## CApainter

PU, 

I think one of my virtues as a PT member is NOT judging a paint job by pictures on the Internet. And frankly, I HAVE to take members at their word. And although I may be skeptical at times, you'll never see a post where I criticize another member as not being professional. And I'll also remind you, regardless of my PT status, I am not obligated as a PT member to always provide positive content. And if the day arrives where I do, that will be the day I retire my membership.


----------



## journeymanPainter

daArch said:


> check your PM's :whistling2:


What, no public sharing?


----------



## PaintersUnite

Here's a few more photos of my NEW metal front door, compliments of my landlord, and their south of the border painters. 

The camera used is a cheap Kodak 3.1 mega pixel camera. I think that any pro on PT can see via "theses photos" that this paint job is horrible. *Imagination if the photos were taken with this camera below?

*So do photos show quality and/or technique? *Yes,* it depends on the camera, distance and lighting.


----------



## Wildbill7145

PU, I don't think anyone's arguing that if you mount a telescope on a camera you're going to be able to see imperfections in a paint job when you take close up pics.

I think what Arch, CA, myself and others are saying that taking a picture of a room (or a door) from a distance will not show imperfections or tell you whether a good/great job was done.

Nice door by the way.


----------



## daArch

Wildbill7145 said:


> PU, I don't think anyone's arguing that if you mount a telescope on a camera you're going to be able to see imperfections in a paint job when you take close up pics.
> 
> I think what Arch, CA, myself and others are saying that taking a picture of a room (or a door) from a distance will not show imperfections or tell you whether a good/great job was done.
> 
> Nice door by the way.


Bill,

some people were born to argue, even though they end up supporting the opposing p.o.v.


----------



## PaintersUnite

Wildbill7145 said:


> I think what Arch, CA, myself and others are saying that taking a picture of a room (or a door) from a distance will not show imperfections or tell you whether a good/great job was done.





PaintersUnite said:


> The photos arch speaks of are taken at a distance, by amateur photographers, with a cell phone.


^^^Yes, I said that myself.

BTW - this is the camera I used to photograph the green door. Nothing telescopic about.


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## PaintersUnite

Oddly, I didn't see arch disputing the poor quality job, visible shown in this photo, that the painter openly admitted looked bad: http://www.painttalk.com/f2/flashing-picture-framing-problem-47873/ 










He only puts up an argument of doubt, "you can't see quality in photos" when the OP, a pro painter, has stated that the paint job they did - looks great and has satisfied 16 people.


----------



## PaintersUnite

daArch said:


> Bill,
> 
> *some people were born to argue*, even though they end up supporting the opposing p.o.v.


Only problem with your post is, I agree with the OP and I'm in support of his post. On the other hand, you are the one trying to chop him and his work down. If he said he had a good experience with a product, the results were great, his customers were pleased, I trust his word. *A mans word means a lot to me.* I don't need to see photos or comment on his photos.

I love you guys, but from what I remember, you are a paperhanger and CApainter is an industrial painter. :whistling2:


----------



## CApainter

PaintersUnite said:


> Only problem with your post is, I agree with the OP and I'm in support of his post. On the other hand, you are the one trying to chop him and his work down. If he said he had a good experience with a product, the results were great, his customers were pleased, I trust his word. *A mans word means a lot to me.* I don't need to see photos or comment on his photos.
> 
> From what I remember, you are a paperhanger and CApainter is an industrial painter.


Half of my career was in residential repaints. And although I may take a man at his word, it doesn't mean I have forfeited my right of cautious skepticism. Particularly if I'm basing my assessment on past experience. 

So the bottom line of this thread to me is, a painter likes to use a particular paint that other painters may not like. That is absolutely everyone's prerogative. And no where have I read a derogatory comment challenging the OP personally or professionally, other than some members not accepting internet photographs as evidence of quality work. 

If the OP is having success with his methods, he should be able to relish in it without the approval of others. And I think he is capable of doing just that. Sometimes it seems our peripheral persona, developed in the Internet, can obscure the rationale we expertly navigate by in our day to day lives. And that may be a consequence of the competitive nature in social media.


----------



## PaintersUnite

1 more post and I am done here.

I just bought (2) brand NEW guitars this year. I am very proud and exited to own and play these instruments. 


The black guitar is a Fender Deluxe Stratocaster (American made). I paid $1,749 for this one.
The 3 color sunburst guitar is a Fender Deluxe Telecaster (American made) I paid $1,699 for this one.
These are 2 high quality guitars. There is not a scratch, ding or ping on theses guitars. The finishes are beautiful and they play great. I have been playing the guitar for over 40 years. 

From the photos shown, these guitars could have a ton of scratches, play like crap and could be made in Mexico. But I give you my word that what I have said is 100% accurate. 

Photos are irrelevant - it's a mans word that counts - and it's not respectful to doubt a professionals word! Even if it is a paint job.


----------



## RH

CApainter said:


> Half of my career was in residential repaints. And although I may take a man at his word, it doesn't mean I have forfeited my right of cautious skepticism. Particularly if I'm basing my assessment on past experience.
> 
> So the bottom line of this thread to me is, a painter likes to use a particular paint that other painters may not like. That is absolutely everyone's prerogative. And no where have I read a derogatory comment challenging the OP personally or professionally, other than some members not accepting internet photographs as evidence of quality work.
> 
> If the OP is having success with his methods, he should be able to relish in it without the approval of others. And I think he is capable of doing just that. Sometimes it seems our peripheral persona, developed in the Internet, can obscure the rationale we expertly navigate by in our day to day lives. And that may be a consequence of the competitive nature in social media.


Exactly. Yet I always think it's funny that so many of the guys who like Behr always seem to be trying to convert those who don't - and they are _usually_ the ones who start these Behr threads. I didn't see that so much from the OP of this thread, he was just sharing his experience. But others get downright indignant when some question the quality of their product of choice. I mean are they stock holders or something? So let it go already - you aren't going to convert a Behr hater any more than they are going to convince you to stop using it.


----------



## Wildbill7145

PaintersUnite said:


> Photos are irrelevant - it's not respectful to doubt a professionals word! Even if it is a paint job.


It's the interweb. It happens.


----------



## SemiproJohn

PaintersUnite said:


> 1 more post and I am done here.
> 
> I just bought (2) brand NEW guitars this year. I am very proud and exited to own and play these instruments.
> 
> 
> The black guitar is a Fender Deluxe Stratocaster (American made). I paid $1,749 for this one.
> The 3 color sunburst guitar is a Fender Deluxe Telecaster (American made) I paid $1,699 for this one.
> These are 2 high quality guitars. There is not a scratch, ding or ping on theses guitars. The finishes are beautiful and they play great. I have been playing the guitar for over 40 years.
> 
> From the photos shown, these guitars could have a ton of scratches, play like crap and could be made in Mexico. But I give you my word that what I have said is 100% accurate.
> 
> Photos are irrelevant - it's a mans word that counts - and it's not respectful to doubt a professionals word! Even if it is a paint job.


A nice pair of axes there.


----------



## CApainter

PaintersUnite said:


> ... and it's not respectful to doubt a professionals word! Even if it is a paint job.


This is what professional politicians would love if there wasn't this little ammendment attached to the U.S. Constitution that grants citizens (Sorry everyone else) the freedom of speech. Thank God!

But there you have it. Respect. Many expect it whether they deserve it or not. It's as if everyone is obligated to give it, or be subject to criticism and accusation of slander. What happened to respecting other people's opinions? Oh, that only applies when it's in agreement with someone else. 

Taking a man for his word may seem like the honorable thing to do, but without trusting the principals behind them, they're only words.


----------



## I paint paint

PaintersUnite said:


> 1 more post and I am done here.
> 
> I just bought (2) brand NEW guitars this year. I am very proud and exited to own and play these instruments.


What do you say,

Stones or Beatles?

Can only have one.


----------



## I paint paint

SemiproJohn said:


> A nice pair of axes there.


What do you say,

Jazz or Rock?

You can only have one.


----------



## I paint paint

Let's start a PT jam band, where we all groove out and party hard.

Kumbaya moment.


----------



## chrisn

daArch said:


> I'm not even going to quote the confusing posts about close up photos of bad paint and the far away photos making a bad job look good as it simply proves my point.
> 
> Nor will I share my knowledge that a digitally magnified photo of a pic off the internet (lower resolution than what shot at) will not add nor improve details. It only magnifies the lack of detail and resolution.
> 
> Maybe this will earn me the staring role on another youtube rant. :thumbsup:


and I will be the co-star, no doubt
and I am assuming you saved those jewels?


----------



## chrisn

As was mentioned at the get go, this whole thread should never have happened. period, RH should have trusted his gut:yes:


----------



## RH

chrisn said:


> As was mentioned at the get go, this whole thread should never have happened. period, RH should have trusted his gut:yes:


I've temporarily misplaced my box of corks. But when I find it...


----------



## Wildbill7145

chrisn said:


> As was mentioned at the get go, this whole thread should never have happened. period, RH should have trusted his gut:yes:



I know what you're saying, but at the end of the day wouldn't that simply be censorship? I mean if people want to talk about Behr, even if a bunch of others don't they should be able to shouldn't they?

Otherwise, we might as well just not talk about brushes anymore because it's been done, etc. etc.


----------



## RH

Wildbill7145 said:


> I know what you're saying, but at the end of the day wouldn't that simply be censorship? I mean if people want to talk about Behr, even if a bunch of others don't they should be able to shouldn't they?
> 
> Otherwise, we might as well just not talk about brushes anymore because it's been done, etc. etc.


And that's why it's still here. As long as everyone plays within the site guidelines then...


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## Wildbill7145

RH said:


> And that's why it's still here. As long as everyone plays within the site guidelines then...


You're a good and just man Sir. It can be tough to hold back sometimes when you have those big powerful buttons in front of you.


----------



## RH

Wildbill7145 said:


> You're a good and just man Sir. It can be tough to hold back sometimes when you have those big powerful buttons in front of you.


You don't know the half of it…. :shutup:


----------



## Wildbill7145

RH said:


> You don't know the half of it…. :shutup:


Oh, I do. Just my experience was with online poker as opposed to painting.

That shiny quick ban and clean one is the one I always loved.


----------



## RH

Wildbill7145 said:


> Oh, I do. Just my experience was with online poker as opposed to painting.
> 
> That shiny quick ban and clean one is the one I always loved.


Our "One and Done" button is rather small and inconspicuous - but incredibly powerful.


----------



## I paint paint

RH said:


> Our "One and Done" button is rather small and inconspicuous - but incredibly powerful.


Do you need two mods to simultaneously turn two separate keys? And then there's a great big explosion?

Tell us it's just like in the movies…


----------



## CApainter

It won't be long before PT Special Operations will begin conducting drone sorties designed to fire a single shot paint ball projectile right at the target's noggin.


----------



## Zoomer

My question is not coverage of a particular paint. I'm questioning your technique/steps on painting. I believe the correct way would be to, first start on those lower panels, followed by middle vertical, then horizontals, last would be left and right verticals.


----------



## RH

I paint paint said:


> Do you need two mods to simultaneously turn two separate keys? And then there's a great big explosion?
> 
> Tell us it's just like in the movies…


Keys??? Pfffttt….Those are like so 20th century.


----------



## daArch

chrisn said:


> and I will be the co-star, no doubt
> and I am assuming you saved those jewels?


OH PLEASE, no whacked-out egocentric delusional socio/psycopath is gonna live rent free on my computer.


----------



## daArch

RH said:


> Keys??? Pfffttt….Those are like so 20th century.


have I not pushed for better secure access here? :whistling2:


----------



## RH

Micro chipping of members is next. That way if they wander away to other sites we can track them down and drag them back.


----------



## slinger58

PaintersUnite said:


> 1 more post and I am done here.
> 
> I just bought (2) brand NEW guitars this year. I am very proud and exited to own and play these instruments.
> 
> 
> The black guitar is a Fender Deluxe Stratocaster (American made). I paid $1,749 for this one.
> The 3 color sunburst guitar is a Fender Deluxe Telecaster (American made) I paid $1,699 for this one.
> These are 2 high quality guitars. There is not a scratch, ding or ping on theses guitars. The finishes are beautiful and they play great. I have been playing the guitar for over 40 years.
> 
> From the photos shown, these guitars could have a ton of scratches, play like crap and could be made in Mexico. But I give you my word that what I have said is 100% accurate.
> 
> Photos are irrelevant - it's a mans word that counts - and it's not respectful to doubt a professionals word! Even if it is a paint job.


Nice looking guitars there, PU. :thumbsup:

But now that baseboard to the left of the guitars? That's looking kinda skanky.........like maybe it had Behrsh!t on it or something. :blink:

Of course I'm just judging it by the pics that were posted. :yes:



You just gotta wonder what Rent would've made of this thread had he stumbled in here. He's been feeling particularly "eloquent" of late. :jester:


----------



## PACman

PaintersUnite said:


> With all due respect, I would expect a little more positivity from the first elected paint pro of the month. How anyone can judge a persons work and WORD over the internet is beyond me.
> 
> There is no softening here, do you agree it looks like crap? This is a brand new metal door.


Looks to me like some diy'er tried to roll on Emerald with a 3/4 roller. That look pretty bad from where I'm sitting. Even if it is a photo on the internet.


----------



## PACman

PaintersUnite said:


> 1 more post and I am done here.
> 
> I just bought (2) brand NEW guitars this year. I am very proud and exited to own and play these instruments.
> 
> 
> The black guitar is a Fender Deluxe Stratocaster (American made). I paid $1,749 for this one.
> The 3 color sunburst guitar is a Fender Deluxe Telecaster (American made) I paid $1,699 for this one.
> These are 2 high quality guitars. There is not a scratch, ding or ping on theses guitars. The finishes are beautiful and they play great. I have been playing the guitar for over 40 years.
> 
> From the photos shown, these guitars could have a ton of scratches, play like crap and could be made in Mexico. But I give you my word that what I have said is 100% accurate.
> 
> Photos are irrelevant - it's a mans word that counts - and it's not respectful to doubt a professionals word! Even if it is a paint job.


I'm a Telecaster man myself. Used to have a 1968 Tele back in high school. Back in the late '70s it was just an old used guitar. I think I paid something like $100.00 and my old skis. I also had a Super Reverb tube amp from the '60s that would be worth a small fortune today.


----------



## PACman

Now I am back at work after my short weekend, and before this thread gets closed, I would like to ask the OP one question. And please don't take this the wrong way, because I really don't see a damn thing wrong with your work or what brand of paint you used. You gave your customer what they wanted and that is the important thing. 

Anyway, if you could have painted each door 20% quicker then you did with Behr, getting the same finish and the same results, using a paint that was 20% more expensive, would you consider that to be a better business decision? I'm not taking into consideration the brand expectations of the end customer of course, but if the paint decision was entirely up to you and you could spend 20% less time per door using a paint that was 20% more expensive would you use it? Why or why not? As a retailer I'm curious to know what you guys in general think about this. Now play nice!


----------



## PACman

PACman said:


> Now I am back at work after my short weekend, and before this thread gets closed, I would like to ask the OP one question. And please don't take this the wrong way, because I really don't see a damn thing wrong with your work or what brand of paint you used. You gave your customer what they wanted and that is the important thing.
> 
> Anyway, if you could have painted each door 20% quicker then you did with Behr, getting the same finish and the same results, using a paint that was 20% more expensive, would you consider that to be a better business decision? I'm not taking into consideration the brand expectations of the end customer of course, but if the paint decision was entirely up to you and you could spend 20% less time per door using a paint that was 20% more expensive would you use it? Why or why not? As a retailer I'm curious to know what you guys in general think about this. Now play nice!


Since this thread hasn't been closed yet, and in the interest of satisfying my curiosity, I would like to expound on my earlier questions. And I am going to throw in some free math so follow along. (I usually charge extra for math)

Again this is entirely hypothetical. 

Say you had twenty doors to paint.
It took you say...1 hour per door to prep and paint two coats per door.
You used a behr product (again I could say brand B but why? it is really irrelevant but it is a Behr thread!) that cost you oh, about $35 a gallon give or take a few cents.
It takes you twenty hours to paint the doors.
lets assume your labor cost is $15/hour for 20 hours
The entire job would cost you $335.00.

Now you buy say....California Freshcoat instead of Behr (Fyi, freshcoat is also a number one rated paint, Just rated by an industry publication not a DIY focused publication)
It costs you $43.75 or 20% more than the Behr per gallon.
The Freshcoat applies easier. A little better coverage but a lot smoother. It doesn't drag, which means fewer brush or roller loads per door. And it lays out better when it's brushed, rolled, or sprayed. (again this is hypothetical. I reference Freshcoat because I know what I can sell it for.)
You find that because it is laying out smoother you are not having to sand many imperfections out before you do the finish coat. All in all, you are able to do each door in 48 minutes instead of an hour.
So 20 doors takes 16 hours to do instead of 20.
So at $15 and hour for labor the job ends up costing you $283.75. A $51.25 difference, even with the more expensive paint.
Then take the 20 hours of labor and double it for an even 40 hour work week. Using the better paint you have the potential of saving $102.50 a week in labor expenses, not even taking into account the extra 8 hours a week you have for idk, quotes, answering phone messages, lunch with the SW rep, etc.
Now lets say you take a couple of weeks off. That leaves 50 weeks of painting work. By saving $102.50 for each one of those weeks, you have a small total of $5,125.00 extra in your bank account. I know this is a pretty insignificant amount to most of you, but for me it would pay for a pretty nice two week vacation. And that is for ONE person. if you have three guys working for you it is still an insignificant amount. A paltry $15,375.00. I know that's just beer money for you BIG painting contractors out there.

So lets say you are a production based painter and you have 10 guys working for you. That's just $51,250 in YOUR pocket not theirs.
Just for using a better paint that costs 20% more then Behr.

Now I know this is far from reality in the painting business, but it does give you some idea of how something simple such as using a better paint can have a positive effect on you bottom line.

I've seen a lot of painters in my life that never seem to get very far with their business. They are always scrambling for work and they just seem to be able to pay their expenses and not much else. These are ALWAYS the guys who will NEVER upgrade to a better paint. ALWAYS! But there are some painters who have a new truck every couple of years and have a pretty nice house on a hill in the country. They will ALWAYS use a better grade of paint, and will rarely do a job for someone who only wants an "acceptable" paint job.

At what point does making a profit of $5125.00 a year per employee supersede the need to placate a customer by using "their" brand of paint?
Is it a good business model to do so?

Again just trying to make something a little better out of another "Behr sucks" thread by trying to instigate some positive, creative, and educational dialog out of it.


----------



## daArch

PACman said:


> Since this thread hasn't been closed yet, and in the interest of satisfying my curiosity, I would like to expound on my earlier questions. And I am going to throw in some free math so follow along. (I usually charge extra for math)
> 
> Again this is entirely hypothetical.
> 
> Say you had twenty doors to paint.
> It took you say...1 hour per door to prep and paint two coats per door.
> You used a behr product (again I could say brand B but why? it is really irrelevant but it is a Behr thread!) that cost you oh, about $35 a gallon give or take a few cents.
> It takes you twenty hours to paint the doors.
> lets assume your labor cost is $15/hour for 20 hours
> The entire job would cost you $335.00.
> 
> Now you buy say....California Freshcoat instead of Behr (Fyi, freshcoat is also a number one rated paint, Just rated by an industry publication not a DIY focused publication)
> It costs you $43.75 or 20% more than the Behr per gallon.
> The Freshcoat applies easier. A little better coverage but a lot smoother. It doesn't drag, which means fewer brush or roller loads per door. And it lays out better when it's brushed, rolled, or sprayed. (again this is hypothetical. I reference Freshcoat because I know what I can sell it for.)
> You find that because it is laying out smoother you are not having to sand many imperfections out before you do the finish coat. All in all, you are able to do each door in 48 minutes instead of an hour.
> So 20 doors takes 16 hours to do instead of 20.
> So at $15 and hour for labor the job ends up costing you $283.75. A $51.25 difference, even with the more expensive paint.
> Then take the 20 hours of labor and double it for an even 40 hour work week. Using the better paint you have the potential of saving $102.50 a week in labor expenses, not even taking into account the extra 8 hours a week you have for idk, quotes, answering phone messages, lunch with the SW rep, etc.
> Now lets say you take a couple of weeks off. That leaves 50 weeks of painting work. By saving $102.50 for each one of those weeks, you have a small total of $5,125.00 extra in your bank account. I know this is a pretty insignificant amount to most of you, but for me it would pay for a pretty nice two week vacation. And that is for ONE person. if you have three guys working for you it is still an insignificant amount. A paltry $15,375.00. I know that's just beer money for you BIG painting contractors out there.
> 
> So lets say you are a production based painter and you have 10 guys working for you. That's just $51,250 in YOUR pocket not theirs.
> Just for using a better paint that costs 20% more then Behr.
> 
> Now I know this is far from reality in the painting business, but it does give you some idea of how something simple such as using a better paint can have a positive effect on you bottom line.
> 
> I've seen a lot of painters in my life that never seem to get very far with their business. They are always scrambling for work and they just seem to be able to pay their expenses and not much else. These are ALWAYS the guys who will NEVER upgrade to a better paint. ALWAYS! But there are some painters who have a new truck every couple of years and have a pretty nice house on a hill in the country. They will ALWAYS use a better grade of paint, and will rarely do a job for someone who only wants an "acceptable" paint job.
> 
> At what point does making a profit of $5125.00 a year per employee supersede the need to placate a customer by using "their" brand of paint?
> Is it a good business model to do so?
> 
> Again just trying to make something a little better out of another "Behr sucks" thread by trying to instigate some positive, creative, and educational dialog out of it.


uhhhhh, my brain glazed over after you said Calif is 20% more than Behr :whistling2:


----------



## Gough

PACman,

Good analysis. I'm always amazed by the failure of some painters here (geographically, not on PT) to see the big picture. It seems to be another illustration of the adage, "Penny wise and pound foolish."


----------



## PACman

daArch said:


> uhhhhh, my brain glazed over after you said Calif is 20% more than Behr :whistling2:


It can be. with the 20% contractor discount my Freshcoat exterior satin gloss is $43.19. actually a little less then 20% more than $35.00.

Of course I don't have a lot of overhead but I use that to my advantage. My rent on my store is $750.00 a month. I doubt if any stores on the east coast or New England have a monthly rent that low. At least any 1600 square foot stores.


----------



## Seth The Painter

Paint is like motor oil you get what you pay for. Behr sucks period the end. Anyone with half a brain knows the difference.


----------



## DrakeB

Without the intention of stirring the pot, the color on those doors looks like one of the better hiding colors in the world. I'm not saying all paint would cover in that color, but the vast majority? Yah. There's other properties to paint than hide, especially when your color is the easiest color for hide out there. I'd personally be more worried about longevity and time spent on the job than the hide in this situation.


----------



## chrisn

Seth The Painter said:


> Paint is like motor oil you get what you pay for. Behr sucks period the end. Anyone with half a brain knows the difference.


thems fight'n words around here young man:thumbsup:









but I like your attitude:yes:


----------



## Seth The Painter

I mean if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck it's a duck my man. I would never in a million years be caught dead using behr. It barely covers lmfao


----------



## Seth The Painter

Preach drake let em know bro


----------



## Seth The Painter

Benji all day everyday 20 days a week!


----------



## Jmayspaint

Seth The Painter said:


> Benji all day everyday 20 days a week!



Except on mansions in exclusive locations where your go to is Duration? 

I like ext Duration too. Any quality paint that you can put on 8 mil at a time is ok by me. 

Lately though, I've been digging Aura exterior. I was playing around with it today to see how close to six and a half mil I could get with roller/brush on some siding. 

I notice the Behr ext can go on up to 6.4 wet also. That thick of a film, or even close to it, of about any paint will cover good. 

Question to the OP, I didn't realize Behr (or anybody) had an exterior matte. Could you provide a link? 

Maybe you just mean the flat has a bit of sheen and are referring to it as matte.


----------



## Seth The Painter

Thanks for realizing my man. I have so much duration in stock it's not funny. Got it at a great price. Aura exterior is great too but the price is bananas.


----------



## Criard

Hahaha behr matte?

It may have gone on fine, but I'd stake my life on saying it won't last for crap and every hand that touches the door will burnish it. Not just my reputation, I mean my actual life. 

Behr paints can go on as pretty as they want, but their durability is nonexistent.


----------



## journeymanPainter

PACman said:


> Now I am back at work after my short weekend, and before this thread gets closed, I would like to ask the OP one question. And please don't take this the wrong way, because I really don't see a damn thing wrong with your work or what brand of paint you used. You gave your customer what they wanted and that is the important thing.
> 
> Anyway, if you could have painted each door 20% quicker then you did with Behr, getting the same finish and the same results, using a paint that was 20% more expensive, would you consider that to be a better business decision? I'm not taking into consideration the brand expectations of the end customer of course, but if the paint decision was entirely up to you and you could spend 20% less time per door using a paint that was 20% more expensive would you use it? Why or why not? As a retailer I'm curious to know what you guys in general think about this. Now play nice!


Yes....but the 'top shelf' paint I buy is cheaper than Behr.


----------



## PaintersUnite

I don't know fellows. My customer bought the paints, both BEHR and SW, Emerald.
I painted her kitchen with both products. Side by side, she couldn't tell the difference. *Here's her testimonial.
*


----------



## chrisn

Seth The Painter said:


> Thanks for realizing my man. I have so much duration in stock it's not funny. Got it at a great price. Aura exterior is great too but the price is bananas.


I will not comment on that whole scenario but I do like your anti bear campaign


----------



## chrisn

PaintersUnite said:


> I don't know fellows. My customer bought the paints, both BEHR and SW, Emerald.
> I painted her kitchen with both products. Side by side, she couldn't tell the difference. *Here's her testimonial.
> *
> BEHR Ultra vs Sherwin Williams Emerald - YouTube


another repeat that we should all believe, really?:laughing:

personally, I don't like emerald any better than the dreaded bear anyway


----------



## Seth The Painter

Criard said:


> Hahaha behr matte?
> 
> It may have gone on fine, but I'd stake my life on saying it won't last for crap and every hand that touches the door will burnish it. Not just my reputation, I mean my actual life.
> 
> Behr paints can go on as pretty as they want, but their durability is nonexistent.


Exactly tell them again they don't hear you! I don't know about you bit I'm in this for the long haul. Not for one job. These guys just don't get it. It's very entertaining to me. Maybe I'm wacky from all the years sniffing paint but I do actually get a kick out of guys using this crap.


----------



## Carl

Seth The Painter said:


> Exactly tell them again they don't hear you! I don't know about you bit I'm in this for the long haul. Not for one job. These guys just don't get it. It's very entertaining to me. Maybe I'm wacky from all the years sniffing paint but I do actually get a kick out of guys using this crap.


Oh I don't know. I think you are starting to embarrass yourself. All these acrylic coatings these days are pretty much the same. The all cost the same. They all apply the same. The differences between them all is very small. You really think BM and SW have some inside tract on making acrylic paint? The secret is out. It's all the same stuff. I wish you Behr bashers would show some proof as to why it's such an inferior product. Look at the ingredients in the can and tell me which ingredient is missing.


----------



## PACman

Seth The Painter said:


> Paint is like motor oil you get what you pay for. Behr sucks period the end. Anyone with half a brain knows the difference.


As long as the API letter rating is the same the oil is virtually chemically identical. Any oil brand with an API SN rating is identical to any other brand with a SN rating. If there is any difference it is negligible. Whenever any substantial improvement is made a new rating is assigned. Synthetics are a whole different ballgame, as the changes come very quickly.

Anyhow the point is that any SN rated brand is not worth a significant amount more then any other SN rated brand. If you are paying $2.00 more for the same rating you are paying for marketing and nothing else.

Most piston engine aircraft actually use a cheap, bulk, recycled SN or SM rated oil, and they can run as much as 100 hours without an oil change, depending what the engine manufacturers specification says. Some private owners will use a high dollar "aviation" grade on their own planes but they are really just satisfying their egos by doing that.

Another point is that there is an actual industry quality rating system for motor oil. Definitely something the paint industry should look into, especially in regards to gloss/sheen levels.


----------



## PACman

Jmayspaint said:


> Except on mansions in exclusive locations where your go to is Duration?
> 
> I like ext Duration too. Any quality paint that you can put on 8 mil at a time is ok by me.
> 
> Lately though, I've been digging Aura exterior. I was playing around with it today to see how close to six and a half mil I could get with roller/brush on some siding.
> 
> I notice the Behr ext can go on up to 6.4 wet also. That thick of a film, or even close to it, of about any paint will cover good.
> 
> Question to the OP, I didn't realize Behr (or anybody) had an exterior matte. Could you provide a link?
> 
> Maybe you just mean the flat has a bit of sheen and are referring to it as matte.


I defy anyone to do this with consistency. It is a lot harder then you think. Hard enough that to imply it can be done on a spec sheet is bull. Two coats is a lot easier to get to a proper mil thickness.

What Behr says it can do compared to what it can do is my biggest issue. A good painter can apply it adequately, but DIY'ers can sometimes struggle getting it to perform to their expectations. No DIY'er is going to be able to get a nice smooth finish while at the same time getting it applied at 6.4 mils wet. That's what creates the problems. the DIY'er is sold on the whole 1 coat fantasy, so as long as it "covers" in one coat they are happy. But it isn't thick enough to provide a good long term performance. Behr definitely isn't the only brand doing this.


----------



## PACman

journeymanPainter said:


> Yes....but the 'top shelf' paint I buy is cheaper than Behr.


It's probably the currency conversion. But I agree with you that there are actually paints out there that will out perform Behr at a cheaper price point. You won't find them at a box store or a Sherwin Williams though.


----------



## PACman

PaintersUnite said:


> I don't know fellows. My customer bought the paints, both BEHR and SW, Emerald.
> I painted her kitchen with both products. Side by side, she couldn't tell the difference. *Here's her testimonial.
> *
> BEHR Ultra vs Sherwin Williams Emerald - YouTube


I think we pretty much established that Emerald is the most over priced paint there is.

And that that is your aunt Ruby in that video! LOL!


----------



## PACman

Carl said:


> Oh I don't know. I think you are starting to embarrass yourself. All these acrylic coatings these days are pretty much the same. The all cost the same. They all apply the same. The differences between them all is very small. You really think BM and SW have some inside tract on making acrylic paint? The secret is out. It's all the same stuff. I wish you Behr bashers would show some proof as to why it's such an inferior product. Look at the ingredients in the can and tell me which ingredient is missing.


The last guy who told me that was an Albanian. Maybe goat milk paint is all they have in Albania. Idk.


----------



## PACman

so for you Behr supporters. You would never consider your profitability over placating a customer by using their favorite paint brand by telling them you would only use such and such paint? Just curious.


----------



## DrakeB

Carl said:


> Oh I don't know. I think you are starting to embarrass yourself. All these acrylic coatings these days are pretty much the same. The all cost the same. They all apply the same. The differences between them all is very small. You really think BM and SW have some inside tract on making acrylic paint? The secret is out. It's all the same stuff. I wish you Behr bashers would show some proof as to why it's such an inferior product. Look at the ingredients in the can and tell me which ingredient is missing.


Frankly, this kind of post shows a major lack of education in the current paint scene. Just to name a very, very few differences off the top of my head, in house resins vs. Chinese bought resins, solids content in the products, the amount of drag engineered into the products, and waterborn colorants come to mind. Things like waterborn colorants are having a huge impact on the industry, which is why the companies that don't have one are scrambling for it as quickly as they can. I also believe that Color Lock (BM's system for the Gennex colorant + Aura that bonds the molecules rather than mixes them like all other paints do) is probably going to be the future of latex paint- but the other brands will have to get there, first. The "big names" are always going to be slower to pick up new technology unless they just buy it- that's just the way it goes. The little guys innovate and make better products, while the big guys make a living on their marketing.

I think it's kind of funny that, based on the discussions I've had or seen on this forum in the past about the actual science of paint, the people who actually bother to educate themselves about the science all fall on one side of this discussion, while the people who think they already know everything and refuse to learn (or just dismiss it as pointless) fall on the other. Just a generalization, but one that's been surprisingly accurate so far.

And, all that aside, the proof is in the pudding even if you don't know the science.


----------



## Carl

DrakeB said:


> Frankly, this kind of post shows a major lack of education in the current paint scene. Just to name a very, very few differences off the top of my head, in house resins vs. Chinese bought resins, solids content in the products, the amount of drag engineered into the products, and waterborn colorants come to mind. Things like waterborn colorants are having a huge impact on the industry, which is why the companies that don't have one are scrambling for it as quickly as they can. I also believe that Color Lock (BM's system for the Gennex colorant + Aura that bonds the molecules rather than mixes them like all other paints do) is probably going to be the future of latex paint- but the other brands will have to get there, first. The "big names" are always going to be slower to pick up new technology unless they just buy it- that's just the way it goes. The little guys innovate and make better products, while the big guys make a living on their marketing.
> 
> I think it's kind of funny that, based on the discussions I've had or seen on this forum in the past about the actual science of paint, the people who actually bother to educate themselves about the science all fall on one side of this discussion, while the people who think they already know everything and refuse to learn (or just dismiss it as pointless) fall on the other. Just a generalization, but one that's been surprisingly accurate so far.
> 
> And, all that aside, the proof is in the pudding even if you don't know the science.


You are right, but what did you expect? We are painters, not paint chemists. Also, I'm not talking about those colors that are difficult to get cover. For those instances I will always reach for the Aura. But, for your normal every day taupes and beiges that everybody chooses, it's all the same. I guess we could argue that one applies better than the other, but my point is that difference is barely detectable! Maybe it's because I'm a pro and I can adjust on the fly without even realizing it. The proof is in the pudding I totally agree but I also believe your mental state of mind plays a part. If you get ready to paint a door with Behr and your brain is already prepared for the process to be a negative one, then it's going to be negative!


----------



## DrakeB

Carl said:


> You are right, but what did you expect? We are painters, not paint chemists. Also, I'm not talking about those colors that are difficult to get cover. For those instances I will always reach for the Aura. But, for your normal every day taupes and beiges that everybody chooses, it's all the same. I guess we could argue that one applies better than the other, but my point is that difference is barely detectable! Maybe it's because I'm a pro and I can adjust on the fly without even realizing it. The proof is in the pudding I totally agree but I also believe your mental state of mind plays a part. If you get ready to paint a door with Behr and your brain is already prepared for the process to be a negative one, then it's going to be negative!


I'd wager a guess that people weren't just born hating Behr. I haven't used it much, and so can't (and won't) say too much about it; however, I believe most of the people in this thread have used Behr paints before many times and are commenting from their own experiences, not just from some innate hate of the brand. And yah, if you're painting walls beige for NC where the quality is irrelevant and the GC just wants it done on the cheap- sure, there's not a damn thing wrong with using Behr.


----------



## journeymanPainter

PACman said:


> It's probably the currency conversion. But I agree with you that there are actually paints out there that will out perform Behr at a cheaper price point. You won't find them at a box store or a Sherwin Williams though.


Regular price for Dulux diamond is $70, I pay $36 after taxes and enviro fees.


----------



## Criard

Carl said:


> If you get ready to paint a door with Behr and your brain is already prepared for the process to be a negative one, then it's going to be negative!


Again, we're not arguing the process or the application of the paint. I'll even go so far as to say that Behr Ultra goes on great and flows out with buttery goodness. 

It's the longevity and durability that I have issues with. I've used Behr paints many times, and have been in several houses where it was used. I've never encountered another paint that burnished so badly wherever it was touched, regardless of the sheen.


----------



## PaintersUnite

Criard said:


> Again, we're not arguing the process or the application of the paint. I'll even go so far as to say that Behr Ultra goes on great and flows out with buttery goodness.
> 
> *It's the longevity and durability that I have issues with.* I've used Behr paints many times, and have been in several houses where it was used. I've never encountered another paint that burnished so badly wherever it was touched, regardless of the sheen.


*No one here has provided proof of your claim. Talk is cheap, pease back it up with proof. *Most dark flats (any brand) will burnish easily.


----------



## PaintersUnite

PACman said:


> I think we pretty much established that Emerald is the most over priced paint there is.
> 
> *And that that is your aunt Ruby in that video! LOL!*


She is actually a customer. I told her about this site hating on the poor behr, here words were, "they don't know what they are talking about". lol

I asked her to do the video, and she was happy to do so. I was supersized how good she was in front of the camera. She is a retired college professor.


----------



## DrakeB

PaintersUnite said:


> *No one here has provided proof of your claim. Talk is cheap, pease back it up with proof. *Most dark flats (any brand) will burnish easily.





PaintersUnite said:


> If he said he had a good experience with a product, the results were great, his customers were pleased, I trust his word. *A mans word means a lot to me.* I don't need to see photos or comment on his photos.


I can't tell, is this irony or double standards I smell in the air? If I understand right, a man's word means a lot to you as long as you agree, but if you disagree, well, by golly there'd better be proof!


----------



## Gough




----------



## DrakeB

PaintersUnite said:


> She is actually a customer. I told her about this site hating on the poor behr, here words were, "they don't know what they are talking about". lol


Yah, non trade people who think professional tradesmen don't know what they're talking about are usually extremely reliable sources :whistling2: It's great that she's happy with the finish she got- that's a very important thing. But that doesn't mean she knows the first thing about quality paint or how it will hold up- many HO's think a paint job is good just because of the color change, they'll completely ignore burnishing and buggers and roller texture all over the wall. New = good. Not saying she's like that, but being in the business this long you have to know how perceptive many HO's aren't.


----------



## PaintersUnite

DrakeB said:


> I'd wager a guess that people weren't just born hating Behr. *I haven't used it much*, and so can't (and won't) say too much about it; however, I believe most of the people in this thread have used Behr paints before many times and are commenting from their own experiences, not just from some innate hate of the brand. And yah, if you're painting walls beige for NC where the quality is irrelevant and the GC just wants it done on the cheap- sure, there's not a damn thing wrong with using Behr.


Then you are not qualified to comment on a product that you never used. Most painters and paperhangers on PT are in your shoes too. Drake, go buy a quart of behr and give it a try. I think you will be surprised just how good it is. 

*Funny statements:* The contradictions are too funny!


Aura is not the easiest product to use, there is a learning curve.
BEHR, is not user friendly according to some, so it sux.
Ultra Spec is a good paint if you are on a lower budget.
BEHR, on a low budget, sux.
I've used 100s of gallons of behr over the past several years, and I have no complaints. None at all! Happy customers makes me a happy painter.


----------



## PaintersUnite

DrakeB said:


> I can't tell, is this irony or double standards I smell in the air? If I understand right, *a man's word means a lot to you as long as you agree, but if you disagree*, well, by golly there'd better be proof!
> 
> 
> DrakeB said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I haven't used it much*, and so can't (and won't) say too much about it;
Click to expand...

You have never used BEHR so *your words* are *empty words* and/or HOT AIR! Surreal Painting actually did and provided proof.

*Actually, your words do mean a lot, above in red. :whistling2:
*


----------



## DrakeB

PaintersUnite said:


> Then you are not qualified to comment on a product that you never used. Most painters and paperhangers on PT are in your shoes too. Drake, go buy a quart of behr and give it a try. I think you will be surprised just how good it is.
> 
> *Funny statements:* The contradictions are too funny!
> 
> 
> Aura is not the easiest product to use, there is a learning curve.
> BEHR, is not user friendly according to some, so it sux.
> Ultra Spec is a good paint if you are on a lower budget.
> BEHR, on a low budget, sux.
> I've used 100s of gallons of behr over the past several years, and I have no complaints. None at all! Happy customers makes me a happy painter.


Funny, as I haven't really been commenting on Behr at all. Wherever did you get the impression that I was? All I've done is ask questions and make general statements about paint quality. I think you should reread.


----------



## DrakeB

PaintersUnite said:


> You have never used BHER so *your words* are *empty words*!



You seem to be struggling a bit with understanding people in this thread. Maybe take a deep breath and reread. 

First of all, neither of those quotes were me- they were from people who clearly have used the product. You can't transpose me not having used the product much over to other people who have to disprove their points. It's an easy mistake to make when you get excited, though.

Second, I'm not talking about Behr product. I've just been talking in general about where and why quality is important, and commenting on your double standard of taking people at their word except when you disagree.


----------



## DrakeB

I'm confused, are you saying proof does matter now? Because that seems directly contradictory to what you said before. Criard said that he'd used Behr paints many times- why is his word suddenly worth nothing to you? I'm just a bit confused, help me understand.

If you'll reread the thread, you'll find I only started commenting on page 6 and haven't said one negative word about Behr the entire time. You're arguing a nonexistent position. You're right, I shouldn't be commenting on Behr without using it frequently. Which is why I'm not, I haven't, and I won't.


----------



## PACman

PaintersUnite said:


> Then you are not qualified to comment on a product that you never used. Most painters and paperhangers on PT are in your shoes too. Drake, go buy a quart of behr and give it a try. I think you will be surprised just how good it is.
> 
> *Funny statements:* The contradictions are too funny!
> 
> 
> Aura is not the easiest product to use, there is a learning curve.
> BEHR, is not user friendly according to some, so it sux.
> Ultra Spec is a good paint if you are on a lower budget.
> BEHR, on a low budget, sux.
> I've used 100s of gallons of behr over the past several years, and I have no complaints. None at all! Happy customers makes me a happy painter.


I've been brushing out some Behr Premium plus ultra and some Marquee in between posts pretty much all morning. Not a whole wall mind you but on some drywall and some laboratory specification drawdown cards.


----------



## PaintersUnite

DrakeB said:


> I'm confused, are you saying proof does matter now? Because that seems directly contradictory to what you said before. Criard said that he'd used Behr paints many times- why is his word suddenly worth nothing to you? I'm just a bit confused, help me understand.
> 
> If you'll reread the thread, you'll find I only started commenting on page 6 and haven't said one negative word about Behr the entire time. You're arguing a nonexistent position. You're right, I shouldn't be commenting on Behr without using it frequently. Which is why I'm not, I haven't, and I won't.


Yes, you shared negative words with Carl regarding BEHR. 

Drake, *I have never used BM advance* therefore, I will never comment on a product that I have never used, or participate is a *BM advance* thread.

Criard is a paint store owner (selling the other brands) with a bias, not a pro painter. If a guy works at FORD, KIA sucks to him, so his word is empty. You'll learn in time, Drake!


----------



## PACman

Come on guys! you're going to get this thread locked and I'm still trying to do market research! Which was actually on why and how a painter justifies using a paint product to placate a customer (who buys it is irrelevant) over using a product that puts additional profit in their pocket. If product Z can save you 20% of the labor cost over product X, and product Z costs 20% more than product X, putting a "tiny bit" more profit in your pocket, at what point do you tell your customer you will not use product X, but are going to use product Z. This is a very relevant question that all of us as business people should be considering. And this comes from 31 years as a business manager as well as 9 years of cost analysis. That cost analysis involving both materials costs and labor costs. At what point does the profitability of your business supersede the need to benefit from the free marketing provided by brand X?

To make it a little simpler, at what point do you take the money for yourself instead of paying for that "free marketing" with your labor expense?

Again I'm not being a smartass, I'm just trying to get a little insight.


----------



## DrakeB

PaintersUnite said:


> Yes, you shared negative words with Carl regarding BEHR.


Please reread. The only thing I responded to was his assertion that all latex paints were the same. Behr was not mentioned a single time. You don't have to defend your precious from me, I'm not bashing it.

It's funny that you say you're so honorable and take a man at his word, but you can't even acknowledge the possibility that maybe a store owner is capable of not being biased while discussing paints. I've freely complimented other paint companies on here, and severely criticized BM for some things as well.


----------



## SemiproJohn

I've been reading this and other Behr-related threads for a good while now. I have managed to refrain from commenting. However, what the heck, it's time.

Over the course of the first two years of starting my paint business, I used Behr primarily. I did exteriors, interior walls, and trim with it. I didn't think it was difficult to apply or that it was inferior to, for example, ProMar 200 or A-100.

Since those earlier days I've used SW products almost exclusively. I think a large part of the reason I switched was due to easy accessibility. No long lines in the store, 15% discounts year-round on sundries, and in my case, access to two highly-competent employees in terms of product knowledge and application. And I believe that Cashmere, Duration, ProClassic, Resilience, and Superpaint are quality products. The lower-line stuff is just ok, nothing more.

Looking back, I never really had the opportunity to go back and examine Behr-painted interiors to check for adhesion and durability. I can say that I've gone back and examined exteriors I painted nearly 4 years ago, and they are holding up great. Of course, these exteriors were prepped well, so I can't just say the results were due to the paint I used. And I'm a two coater.

A couple of month's ago I was doing a repaint. All of the interior doors had been originally painted in Behr Ultra white Semigloss. No tint, just like it came from the factory. I deglossed them and repainted with the exact same product (new). I was very disappointed with adhesion and blocking resistance. I told myself then and there that I would no longer use Behr for any door or trim work, even on flip jobs. I realize my reputation is always going to be more important than saving a few bucks on paint.

I haven't ever received a call-back or complaint from an unhappy customer. I would assume that if all that Behr I used was crap, I would have gotten some calls by now. Who knows?

I am still looking for a "lower-end" substitute for ProClassic for doors and trim on those jobs that I have to price with a sharper pencil. The Ace Hardware stores near me do not carry Ultra Spec or I would have tried that by now. I'm wanting blocking resistance and strong adhesion, and am welcome to suggestions.

Well, there it is, my confession. Put me on "the list of offenders."


----------



## daArch

Carl said:


> Oh I don't know. I think you are starting to embarrass yourself. All these acrylic coatings these days are pretty much the same. The all cost the same. They all apply the same. The differences between them all is very small. You really think BM and SW have some inside tract on making acrylic paint? The secret is out. It's all the same stuff. I wish you Behr bashers would show some proof as to why it's such an inferior product. Look at the ingredients in the can and tell me which ingredient is missing.


 I am a little disheartened that these words came NOT only from a HO'er who we expect needs to be educated about resins, vehicles, colorants and the roles they play in paints and the how important the different percentages of them in a formulation are.

As many of us know, Gardz was formulated by reverse engineering Draw-tite. Gradz uses the same materials as D-T BUT so as not to be sued for patent infringement they use about 25% less of the critical resin (no, I am not sure what exact percentage less is require to not be an infringement)

Those of us that have used both products extensively KNOW that there is a world of difference in how they perform.

But let me dumb it down. All beers are made with the same ingredients and the same process. And we all know that Bud, Schlitz, Old Milwaukee, Miller, etc do not taste the same as Rouge, Sam Adams, Dogfish, Guiness, Becks, etc.

And true, some folks LIKE the mass produced American lagers better than the craft brews.

But PLEASE do not foist the misconception on the public that just because it says "Acrylic Paint" on the label means it is the same as all other acrylic paints.


----------



## Gough

PACman said:


> Come on guys! you're going to get this thread locked and I'm still trying to do market research! Which was actually on why and how a painter justifies using a paint product to placate a customer (who buys it is irrelevant) over using a product that puts additional profit in their pocket. If product Z can save you 20% of the labor cost over product X, and product Z costs 20% more than product X, putting a "tiny bit" more profit in your pocket, at what point do you tell your customer you will not use product X, but are going to use product Z. This is a very relevant question that all of us as business people should be considering. And this comes from 31 years as a business manager as well as 9 years of cost analysis. That cost analysis involving both materials costs and labor costs. At what point does the profitability of your business supersede the need to benefit from the free marketing provided by brand X?
> 
> To make it a little simpler, at what point do you take the money for yourself instead of paying for that "free marketing" with your labor expense?
> 
> Again I'm not being a smartass, I'm just trying to get a little insight.


PACman, given that our material costs often run 1/10 to 1/5 of our labor costs, using a product that saves us even a small amount of labor is generally worthwhile. We don't need that 20%/20% trade off. If it saves us 20% in labor, it may be worth paying nearly twice as much for the material.

Please don't tell that to Cory, my BM dealer.:whistling2:


----------



## Jmayspaint

PACman said:


> I defy anyone to do this with consistency. It is a lot harder then you think. Hard enough that to imply it can be done on a spec sheet is bull. Two coats is a lot easier to get to a proper mil thickness.
> 
> .



Hard to do? Certainly is. Heck, it's hard enough to get 4 mil at a time. It takes some extra effort, and you really have to pay attention. That's probably why so few painters in the residential field even bother to pay attention to application thickness. 

I get your point about one coat claims being deceptive to DIY'ers and HO's. But I don't agree that it's unrealistic for a professional coatings applicator to be expected to be able to apply coatings to their specifications. Is it difficult to apply high build coatings by hand? Sure it is, that's why they call us the pros


----------



## DrakeB

I think his main point was that it's easier with some coatings than with others.


----------



## PACman

Gough said:


> PACman, given that our material costs often run 1/10 to 1/5 of our labor costs, using a product that saves us even a small amount of labor is generally worthwhile. We don't need that 20%/20% trade off. If it saves us 20% in labor, it may be worth paying nearly twice as much for the material.
> 
> Please don't tell that to Cory, my BM dealer.:whistling2:


So using mathematics (actually it was algebra) to make the point about the labor/material cost thing constituted PROOF that just using a product because of a lower price/well known name may not be a sound business decision?

Can I call this the PACman theorem?


----------



## PACman

Jmayspaint said:


> Hard to do? Certainly is. Heck, it's hard enough to get 4 mil at a time. It takes some extra effort, and you really have to pay attention. That's probably why so few painters in the residential field even bother to pay attention to application thickness.
> 
> I get your point about one coat claims being deceptive to DIY'ers and HO's. But I don't agree that it's unrealistic for a professional coatings applicator to be expected to be able to apply coatings to their specifications. Is it difficult to apply high build coatings by hand? Sure it is, that's why they call us the pros


But you know that getting it 6.4 mils is a lot easier with two coats. Homeowners think that as long as the color is covered it's a good paint. When it peels, or fades or whatever a few years later that's when they have problems. That's also were a lot of the beef with Behr comes from, as far as I'm concerned. Consumers are not applying it correctly, and they are not buying it from people who are capable of telling them what they are doing wrong or to tell them ahead of time the proper way to apply it. Just "sales" people that are there to pull it off the shelf and tint it. This has been going on for years, and personally I believe that this is having a very adverse effect on the reputation of the Behr product, more so then the actual quality of the product.


----------



## George Z

They are not all the same. Benjamin Moore Gennex and the paints that use this system are better than most paints. I am sure there are other claiming the same. My own personal experience with Behr is not good. Also my painters don't like it when I spec it. It also stinks, especially the "zero VOC" strong coloured ones. The biggest problem I find with them is Home Depot.


----------



## Wildbill7145

One of the few times I used behr, I had to go back to big orange to grab another gallon. I gave the kid the exact colour name and code. He whips up the gallon, shows me the colour wet (pointless), then asks "Do yuh want it a little darker?"

"WHAT? No! I want the exact same colour I asked you for?" I'm pretty sure that's the last time I used it.


----------



## DrakeB

SemiproJohn said:


> Well, there it is, my confession. Put me on "the list of offenders."


Don't think there's anything to be ashamed of in that confession at all. As I've said however many dozen times around here, it's all about finding a system that works for you. At the end of the day, no one else's opinion makes any difference as long as your system works. As painters, you all have different expectations out of the paint you buy, and similarly homeowners also have very different expectations based on personal preference, income, and attention to detail as well. If what you're doing is working for you, you're being profitable, and customers aren't being lied to about what they're getting for their money, no one on this site or in real life has any business telling you to do anything else.

Now, obviously, for people who are newer or just not as good painters advice from more experience and accomplished painters is something to be heeded; feedback on different products is certainly valuable, but I don't think (m)any people here will look down on anyone for the sole reason that they have used Behr paint.


----------



## chrisn

RH said:


> I am so tempted to cork this bottle right away.


best intentions:whistling2:


----------



## stelzerpaintinginc.

SemiproJohn said:


> I've been reading this and other Behr-related threads for a good while now. I have managed to refrain from commenting. However, what the heck, it's time.
> 
> Over the course of the first two years of starting my paint business, I used Behr primarily. I did exteriors, interior walls, and trim with it. I didn't think it was difficult to apply or that it was inferior to, for example, ProMar 200 or A-100.
> 
> Since those earlier days I've used SW products almost exclusively. I think a large part of the reason I switched was due to easy accessibility. No long lines in the store, 15% discounts year-round on sundries, and in my case, access to two highly-competent employees in terms of product knowledge and application. And I believe that Cashmere, Duration, ProClassic, Resilience, and Superpaint are quality products. The lower-line stuff is just ok, nothing more.
> 
> Looking back, I never really had the opportunity to go back and examine Behr-painted interiors to check for adhesion and durability. I can say that I've gone back and examined exteriors I painted nearly 4 years ago, and they are holding up great. Of course, these exteriors were prepped well, so I can't just say the results were due to the paint I used. And I'm a two coater.
> 
> A couple of month's ago I was doing a repaint. All of the interior doors had been originally painted in Behr Ultra white Semigloss. No tint, just like it came from the factory. I deglossed them and repainted with the exact same product (new). I was very disappointed with adhesion and blocking resistance. I told myself then and there that I would no longer use Behr for any door or trim work, even on flip jobs. I realize my reputation is always going to be more important than saving a few bucks on paint.
> 
> I haven't ever received a call-back or complaint from an unhappy customer. I would assume that if all that Behr I used was crap, I would have gotten some calls by now. Who knows?
> 
> I am still looking for a "lower-end" substitute for ProClassic for doors and trim on those jobs that I have to price with a sharper pencil. The Ace Hardware stores near me do not carry Ultra Spec or I would have tried that by now. I'm wanting blocking resistance and strong adhesion, and am welcome to suggestions.
> 
> Well, there it is, my confession. Put me on "the list of offenders."



Good post John. My suggestion to you would be to use what performs best, especially when you're doing trim. Most trim jobs take 3-5 gallons at most. Your pencil can still remain sharp by the time you save applying a product you're confide and knowledgable with, (whatever that product may be). Seriously, I'm in no way saying use the very best of paints for every application, but for interior & exterior trim, that's exactly what I'm saying. Consider using Duration for your ext trim if you frequent SW. Even if it means having to sharpen your pencil by downgrading to a-100 on the body, (although I'd suggest superpaint for the body whenever possible when using SW). You'll save time & money on those tasks which require lots of labor and very few gallons. No joke. Pinky-swear.


----------



## PaintersUnite

DrakeB said:


> I can't tell, is this irony or double standards I smell in the air? If I understand right, a man's word means a lot to you as long as you agree, but if you disagree, well, by golly there'd better be proof!


You are taking my post out of context. If a man says he had a good experience with a product, and his 16 customers are pleased with the work, I don't need to see photos of his work, to believe he had a good over all experience with a product - *Yes,* *I trust his word*!

On the other hand, when "*Criard"* a paint store employee, makes a claim that BEHR as a brand (without identifying specific BEHR products), is not durable and doesn't have longevity. His claim would require extensive testing (every single product BEHR carries), over time. So no, I will not take him on his word. And yes, I want to see the test results that support his *hyperbolic* claim. He would also have to provide his credentials for me to even entertain his claim to begin with. *So no, there is no double standard on my part.*


----------



## I paint paint

I'd take the Stones.

Beatles maudlin tendencies are the deal breaker.


----------



## Seth The Painter

Gough said:


> PACman, given that our material costs often run 1/10 to 1/5 of our labor costs, using a product that saves us even a small amount of labor is generally worthwhile. We don't need that 20%/20% trade off. If it saves us 20% in labor, it may be worth paying nearly twice as much for the material.
> 
> Please don't tell that to Cory, my BM dealer.:whistling2:


Tell em again Pac-Man they didn't hear you!


----------



## CApainter

I paint paint said:


> I'd take the Stones.
> 
> Beatles maudlin tendencies are the deal breaker.


What?:blink: it's like someone farted in the board room.

*attempt at levity...OK, I'm going back outside with my friends.*


----------



## I paint paint

CApainter said:


> What?:blink: it's like someone farted in the board room.
> 
> *attempt at levity...OK, I'm going back outside with my friends.*


_Smokin' in the Boys Room._ Motley Crue, 1985

_Farted in the Board Room._ CApainter, 2015


----------



## daArch

RH said:


> I am so tempted to cork this bottle right away.


can't you just cork a couple chosen cantankerous culprits ?


----------



## I paint paint

daArch said:


> can't you just cork a couple chosen cantankerous culprits ?


Put a cork in the board room farter.


----------



## daArch

I paint paint said:


> Put a cork in the board room farter.


NO! you'll shoot your eye out, Ralphie


----------



## chrisn

PaintersUnite said:


> You are taking my post out of context. If a man says he had a good experience with a product, and his 16 customers are pleased with the work, I don't need to see photos of his work, to believe he had a good over all experience with a product - *Yes,* *I trust his word*!
> 
> On the other hand, when "*Criard"* a paint store employee, makes a claim that BEHR as a brand (without identifying specific BEHR products), is not durable and doesn't have longevity. His claim would require extensive testing (every single product BEHR carries), over time. So no, I will not take him on his word. And yes, I want to see the test results that support his *hyperbolic* claim. He would also have to provide his credentials for me to even entertain his claim to begin with. *So no, there is no double standard on my part.*


Like you don't do that constantly?


----------



## PACman

Seth The Painter said:


> Tell em again Pac-Man they didn't hear you!


I've been beating my head on this wall for thirty+ years. Maybe I need to go a little farther by using my physics schoolin'. I have a degree in aeronautics, which is a more focused version of thermodynamics, which is basically the study of fluids, which in turn is what paint is correct? 

Drag creates friction. Friction reduces speed. Slower speed means more time to reach the desired objective. Time wasted is wasted money. Money is profit.
If you compare two paints, and one has more drag then the other which reduces speed of application, a reasonable person would assume that the paint with less drag would be take less time to apply, therefore generating more profit.

If you really want to be bored I can add the laws and principles, but I really don't think you guys want to see that crap.

And this is just part of the whole idea. There are many other physical properties that effect how a fluid reacts to being "painted" on a surface.
Viscosity, resistance to flow, greatly effects the ease and speed at which a uniform coating can be applied.

The quality of the paint generally reflects how well the manufacturer has adjusted their product to these physical demands and capabilities.

I could go on for hours but nobody needs to see that sh*t. Well most of you don't.


----------



## PACman

I paint paint said:


> _Smokin' in the Boys Room._ Motley Crue, 1985
> 
> _Farted in the Board Room._ CApainter, 2015


Ok I may be showing my age here, but didn't Sweet do Smokin' in the boys room back in the '70's?


----------



## Gough

PACman said:


> I've been beating my head on this wall for thirty+ years. Maybe I need to go a little farther by using my physics schoolin'. I have a degree in aeronautics, which is a more focused version of thermodynamics, which is basically the study of fluids, which in turn is what paint is correct?
> 
> Drag creates friction. Friction reduces speed. Slower speed means more time to reach the desired objective. Time wasted is wasted money. Money is profit.
> If you compare two paints, and one has more drag then the other which reduces speed of application, a reasonable person would assume that the paint with less drag would be take less time to apply, therefore generating more profit.
> 
> If you really want to be bored I can add the laws and principles, but I really don't think you guys want to see that crap.
> 
> And this is just part of the whole idea. There are many other physical properties that effect how a fluid reacts to being "painted" on a surface.
> Viscosity, resistance to flow, greatly effects the ease and speed at which a uniform coating can be applied.
> 
> The quality of the paint generally reflects how well the manufacturer has adjusted their product to these physical demands and capabilities.
> 
> I could go on for hours but nobody needs to see that sh*t. Well most of you don't.


Some of us might like to.

PT Word of the Day: Rheologic


----------



## DrakeB

Gough said:


> Some of us might like to.
> 
> PT Word of the Day: Rheologic


Do you mean rheology or rheological?

Edit: Can I vote that PT Word of the Days should be real words? :whistling2::jester:


----------



## Gough

DrakeB said:


> Do you mean rheology or rheological?
> 
> Edit: Can I vote that PT Word of the Days should be real words? :whistling2::jester:


Sorry, Drake, you must have skipped that day.

"Of, or relating to, rheology .- the deformation and flow of matter.
2009 January[1], Notices of the American Mathematical Society, volume 56, number 1: 
The chemical industry uses mathematical models to simulate polymerization processes, pressing, or extrusion for complex rheologic materials, where the typical macro analysis of continuum mechanics must be connected to the micro one, the latter being more adequate to describe the complex rheology of materials with nanostructure."

There is one school of thought that considers the use of both "ic" and "al" endings to be redundant, z.B. Historic versus Historical, Geologic versus Geological.

Sorry to take our off-topic discussion even farther off topic.


----------



## DrakeB

Huh, my apologies then. I've never seen that word with just the "ic" ending, and yes they absolutely are redundant so I'm going to keep pretending it's not a word regardless. I still think rhelogic is made up, anyways, as scientists tend to do that in their work. As far as I can tell no real dictionaries acknowledge that as an actual word.


----------



## PACman

DrakeB said:


> Do you mean rheology or rheological?
> 
> Edit: Can I vote that PT Word of the Days should be real words? :whistling2::jester:


Rhymes with "real logic" so it doesn't apply here.


----------



## Repaint Florida

PACman said:


> I've been beating my head on this wall for thirty+ years. Maybe I need to go a little farther by using my physics schoolin'. I have a degree in aeronautics, which is a more focused version of thermodynamics, which is basically the study of fluids, which in turn is what paint is correct?
> 
> Drag creates friction. Friction reduces speed. Slower speed means more time to reach the desired objective. Time wasted is wasted money. Money is profit.
> If you compare two paints, and one has more drag then the other which reduces speed of application, a reasonable person would assume that the paint with less drag would be take less time to apply, therefore generating more profit.
> 
> If you really want to be bored I can add the laws and principles, but I really don't think you guys want to see that crap.
> 
> And this is just part of the whole idea. There are many other physical properties that effect how a fluid reacts to being "painted" on a surface.
> Viscosity, resistance to flow, greatly effects the ease and speed at which a uniform coating can be applied.
> 
> The quality of the paint generally reflects how well the manufacturer has adjusted their product to these physical demands and capabilities.
> 
> I could go on for hours but nobody needs to see that sh*t. Well most of you don't.


no trying to be rude but can you give a cost saving in time?
you say "Time wasted is wasted money. Money is profit."

how much more time could a average painter save painting 19 door 2 coats using a paint with less drag? 

is he saving pennies? nickels? dollars? for 19 door

19 door was the op so i am trying to see the savings he could have had on this job

again no disrespect just seems like he's happy with his results / profit and wants to share it :thumbup:

btw i am long way from being a behr fan but if he's happy /made money good for him


----------



## Gough

It's a living language, Drake. You old guys have to accept that.:jester:


----------



## PACman

DrakeB said:


> Huh, my apologies then. I've never seen that word with just the "ic" ending, and yes they absolutely are redundant so I'm going to keep pretending it's not a word regardless. I still think rhelogic is made up, anyways, as scientists tend to do that in their work. As far as I can tell no real dictionaries acknowledge that as an actual word.


How about non-Newtonian fluid dynamics. Is that better?


----------



## Gough

Repaint Florida said:


> no trying to be rude but can you give a cost saving in time?
> you say "Time wasted is wasted money. Money is profit."
> 
> how much more time could a average painter save painting 19 door 2 coats using a paint with less drag?
> 
> is he saving pennies? nickels? dollars? for 19 door
> 
> 19 door was the op so i am trying to see the savings he could have had on this job
> 
> again no disrespect just seems like he's happy with his results / profit and wants to share it :thumbup:
> 
> btw i am long way from being a behr fan but if he's happy /made money good for him


Using an average of $60/hr ('cause it makes the math so tidy), saving a minute/door means $38 for 19 doors x 2 coats.


----------



## DrakeB

Gough said:


> It's a living language, Drake. You old guys have to accept that.:jester:


I'll fight it tooth and nail! Why am I lumped in with the old guys, anyways


----------



## PACman

Repaint Florida said:


> no trying to be rude but can you give a cost saving in time?
> you say "Time wasted is wasted money. Money is profit."
> 
> how much more time could a average painter save painting 19 door 2 coats using a paint with less drag?
> 
> is he saving pennies? nickels? dollars? for 19 door
> 
> 19 door was the op so i am trying to see the savings he could have had on this job
> 
> again no disrespect just seems like he's happy with his results / profit and wants to share it :thumbup:
> 
> btw i am long way from being a behr fan but if he's happy /made money good for him


 I did some math in an earlier post that does a basic calculation. More drag means two things. More trips to load the brush or roller, and more paint needed to cover the same area. Again as I said earlier I was just using his door post as an example, I wasn't commenting on his actual job.

More trips to the pan (bucket, coffee cup, whatever) means more energy expended to do the same job as one with fewer trips to load the brush. And anyone who understands the concepts of repetitive function will understand how quickly those few seconds become minutes, and how quickly they become hours. This of course doesn't apply to spraying. That's a WHOLE 'nother ball game in the Thermodynamic universe. ( I almost got kicked out of a Graco training session once by pissing off the instructor because all he could do was read the Graco training book and he had no real grasp of what he was saying.)

If he got good results using the product he did then good for him. It doesn't effect the laws of physics one bit. But I believe that by discussing how the physical properties of paint, and the benefits of understanding them can effect your profitability I could make something positive out of this post instead of the normal Behr bashing that normally goes on. I agree that arguing about the application properties and quality of Behr is actually kind of silly, but there is a huge problem with the way they market and promote their product by being EXTREMELY misleading about the quality of the product. Behr is by no means the only culprit, as personally I believe SW is the major player in this crap.


----------



## Gough

DrakeB said:


> I'll fight it tooth and nail! Why am I lumped in with the old guys, anyways


Just Google "rheologic properties", you've got to know when to fold 'em.

Even the Apple spellchecker recognizes the word, why can't you?

Perhaps you're channeling Alexander Haig. Would you prefer rheologicallywise?


----------



## PACman

Gough said:


> Using an average of $60/hr ('cause it makes the math so tidy), saving a minute/door means $38 for 19 doors x 2 coats.


That's another way of calculating it. The fact is, that if you apply algebra to the issue, you can make a piddling bit more profit off of a better applying paint. And by piddling I mean a mere $5,000 a year working 40 hours a week painting doors. Just a piddling profit I am sure to you big painting companies.

But, when a couple of major home builders upgraded their paint, for less then 7% more per gallon, the difference quickly became apparent when the painters found out they could paint another 1 1/2 houses a week. They pocketed millions per year in profit from just upgrading their paint. I am not comfortable disclosing the home builders but just say they were at one time two of the biggest in the Ohio area.

Conversely, there are a couple of even bigger nationwide home builders who won't change paint brands solely based on the convenience of the paint brands store locations. And they don't realize that they are paying through the nose for that convenience. I'm sure quite a few of you have slapped on some SW through the years for them. In some of their developments they have as many as 30% of their homes need a third coat of paint for whatever reason. Most of that has to do with how poorly the paint actually hides the tape, mud etc. BUT, it could be the painters right? Lot of variables there. But a product that hides better and applies better could alleviate a lot of those variables, so there is a huge potential for saving labor there. They are run by a pack of MBA's so as usual they know it all.


----------



## PACman

You guys really, really don't want me to dig out my college notebooks and write down my rheology formulae do you? (odd, my spellcheck doesn't recognize rheologic.)

But then again boring everyone to death would be a good way to put an end to a 9 page Behr thread.


----------



## DrakeB

Gough said:


> Just Google "rheologic properties", you've got to know when to fold 'em.
> 
> Even the Apple spellchecker recognizes the word, why can't you?
> 
> Perhaps you're channeling Alexander Haig. Would you prefer rheologicallywise?


I'd prefer the "real" word rheological :thumbup:

At least rheology-wise is a proper grammatical (grammatic?) addendum to the word.


----------



## Gough

DrakeB said:


> I'd prefer the "real" word rheological :thumbup:
> 
> At least rheology-wise is a proper grammatical (grammatic?) addendum to the word.


From a publication on writing tips for scientific papers:

"The preference today is the shorter ending (hydrologic, hydrographic) but no strong justification supports such choice. Except for conventional expressions (Geologic Division, Geological Survey), consistency within a report should govern usage."


----------



## SemiproJohn

PACman said:


> Ok I may be showing my age here, but didn't Sweet do Smokin' in the boys room back in the '70's?


1973...Brownsville Station, not Sweet.

I give you bonus points anyway for realizing Motley Crue's version was not the original. :thumbsup:


----------



## PACman

SemiproJohn said:


> 1973...Brownsville Station, not Sweet.
> 
> I give you bonus points anyway for realizing Motley Crue's version was not the original. :thumbsup:


Damn I forgot all about Brownsville Station! But the Crue's version was good too.


----------



## DrakeB

Gough said:


> From a publication on writing tips for scientific papers:
> 
> "The preference today is the shorter ending (hydrologic, hydrographic) but no strong justification supports such choice. Except for conventional expressions (Geologic Division, Geological Survey), consistency within a report should govern usage."


I think common usage (which is inarguably [in my opinion] rheological [given history of the word and its presence in dictionaries]) would fall under a "strong justification" more than any arbitrary decision. But you still haven't answered whether or not I should be saying grammatic instead of grammatical!


----------



## Wildbill7145

PACman said:


> You guys really, really don't want me to dig out my college notebooks and write down my rheology formulae do you? (odd, my spellcheck doesn't recognize rheologic.)
> 
> But then again boring everyone to death would be a good way to put an end to a 9 page Behr thread.


We want formulae! We want formulae! God I love this thread.

Just thinking of February is taking the edge off the August heat and humidity.


----------



## PACman

Wildbill7145 said:


> We want formulae! We want formulae! God I love this thread.
> 
> Just thinking of February is taking the edge off the August heat and humidity.


Well I'll just have to dig them up and decipher them then! My handwriting is like Einstein's if he was on acid. No need to encode anything that way. I'm seriously the only person on earth that can read them.


----------



## PACman

Now we've gone to Einstein on acid?


----------



## PACman

If anyone is really that bored, here are some basic rheologic formulae and graphs. As well as a description of some of the instruments used to "measure" rheology. (quotations mine, as if you read this paper and fully understand what it is saying you will understand that you are trying to measure something that is constantly in a transitory state.) LOL! Now ain't that a HOOT!

Now image everything in this written by Einstein on acid and you will get an idea what my college notes look like.

http://www.chem.mtu.edu/~fmorriso/cm4655/lecture_4_cm4655.pdf


----------



## SemiproJohn

PACman said:


> If anyone is really that bored, here are some basic rheological formulae and graphs. As well as a description of some of the instruments used to "measure" rheology. (quotations mine, as if you read this paper and fully understand what it is saying you will understand that you are trying to measure something that is constantly in a transitory state.) LOL! Now ain't that a HOOT!
> 
> Now image everything in this written by Einstein on acid and you will get an idea what my college notes look like.
> 
> http://www.chem.mtu.edu/~fmorriso/cm4655/lecture_4_cm4655.pdf



Good grief. 
After perusing that, my brain is clearly non-Newtonian in its aptitude. I think my neural pathways have become cementitious, or perhaps they are obscured by saponification.

No amount of mental viagra exists that could possibly help me understand this stuff. I studied the soft sciences, and for a reason...I could understand them.


----------



## DrakeB

SemiproJohn said:


> Good grief.
> After perusing that, my brain is clearly non-Newtonian in its aptitude. I think my neural pathways have become cementitious, or perhaps they are obscured by saponification.
> 
> No amount of mental viagra exists that could possibly help me understand this stuff. I studied the soft sciences, and for a reason...I could understand them.


From my experience, science like this just has a very high "buy-in value," as I like to say. It requires a lot of understanding of basic principles, none of which are very hard to understand on their own. It only looks terribly scary when you jump right into the middle of it like this. It's not so much a factor of IQ (your capacity for learning) and more a factor of knowledge (how much you have learned) and dedication.


----------



## SemiproJohn

DrakeB said:


> From my experience, science like this just has a very high "buy-in value," as I like to say. It requires a lot of understanding of basic principles, none of which are very hard to understand on their own. It only looks terribly scary when you jump right into the middle of it like this. It's not so much a factor of IQ (your capacity for learning) and more a factor of knowledge (how much you have learned) and dedication.


I get what you are saying. Unfortunately, I was the guy who could obtain good grades in math, but who did so by memorizing the required formulas and correctly plugging in the numbers. I never really grasped the "why" behind the formulas. I had a better grasp of statistical analysis and techniques, but calculus, chemistry and, especially, physics always seemed like foreign languages in which I could not become even close to fluent.


----------



## Wildbill7145

Yikes, I took all three grade thirteen maths, grade thirteen physics twice (to improve my mark, didn't much) and grade thirteen chemistry. But attempting to read that reminds me..... That was a long time ago. I do love this stuff though.

A short while ago a customer came home early and found me listening to a book on tape of "Steven Hawking's A brief history of time". Their only comment was "I suspect that's not what most painters listen to while working." They told me to leave it on, but the next day they chose the radio station before I got there.


----------



## DrakeB

If you're interested in the physics side of things, I highly recommend Michio Kaku's work (did I spell that right?). He's not only brilliant, but also superbly capable of explaining things in a way people can understand- without dumbing it down. He's both entertaining and very, very clever.


----------



## George Z

So,
Does Behr suck or not?


----------



## Wildbill7145

George Z said:


> So,
> Does Behr suck or not?


Oh. Is this gonna bring this thread right back to the beginning for a complete redo?


----------



## DrakeB

George Z said:


> So,
> Does Behr suck or not?


Apparently store owners are incapable of having unbiased opinions on paint, so unfortunately I can't answer that


----------



## Repaint Florida

Gough said:


> Using an average of $60/hr ('cause it makes the math so tidy), saving a minute/door means $38 for 19 doors x 2 coats.


ok let save he got $200 a door ( easy to add ) 
$200 X 19 = $3,800

so it cost him a extra $38 but he has 19 happy HO

i getting old i can't believe i'm defending Behr ... but truth is i'm just not in the mood to bash a working man who happy with his work


----------



## DrakeB

Repaint Florida said:


> ok let save he got $200 a door ( easy to add )
> $200 X 19 = $3,800
> 
> so it cost him a extra $38 but he has 19 happy HO
> 
> i getting old i can't believe i'm defending Behr ... but truth is i'm just not in the mood to bash a working man who happy with his work


In my humble opinion that's not what people are doing here at all, and not what PACman asked that question for. He specifically said he was just using it as an example to show what he's talking about.

There's also no reason whatsoever to believe the HO's would be less happy with a better quality paint, either. So, the way I see it, the comparison is:

A) Behr paint, costs $38 extra, takes longer, happy HO
B) Better paint, costs $38 less, gives him extra time to make money doing more work or get home earlier and spend time with his family, happy HO

It's not about bashing Behr or the working man. It's just a discussion about operating procedures.


----------



## chrisn

George Z said:


> So,
> Does Behr suck or not?


Why, yes indeed:yes:


----------



## Seth The Painter

PACman said:


> I've been beating my head on this wall for thirty+ years. Maybe I need to go a little farther by using my physics schoolin'. I have a degree in aeronautics, which is a more focused version of thermodynamics, which is basically the study of fluids, which in turn is what paint is correct?
> 
> Drag creates friction. Friction reduces speed. Slower speed means more time to reach the desired objective. Time wasted is wasted money. Money is profit.
> If you compare two paints, and one has more drag then the other which reduces speed of application, a reasonable person would assume that the paint with less drag would be take less time to apply, therefore generating more profit.
> 
> If you really want to be bored I can add the laws and principles, but I really don't think you guys want to see that crap.
> 
> And this is just part of the whole idea. There are many other physical properties that effect how a fluid reacts to being "painted" on a surface.
> Viscosity, resistance to flow, greatly effects the ease and speed at which a uniform coating can be applied.
> 
> The quality of the paint generally reflects how well the manufacturer has adjusted their product to these physical demands and capabilities.
> 
> I could go on for hours but nobody needs to see that sh*t. Well most of you don't.


Yes hell yeah PACman ! Tell em again they didn't hear you!


----------



## Seth The Painter

Gough said:


> Using an average of $60/hr ('cause it makes the math so tidy), saving a minute/door means $38 for 19 doors x 2 coats.


Lmfao literally


----------



## Gough

Seth The Painter said:


> Lmfao literally


Which part did you find so amusing?


----------



## ExcelPaintingCo

George Z said:


> So, Does Behr suck or not?


 One must read between the lines from the posts on the last two pages of this tread to find the answer.


----------



## Seth The Painter

Gough said:


> Which part did you find so amusing?


Just how it goes on and and on and on about this behr issue.


----------



## CApainter

Who introduced math into this thread? Paintings supposed to be all about feel, and illusion, not actual equations and such.


----------



## PaintersUnite

*Behr Marquee vs Sherwin Williams Duration

Enjoy!
*


----------



## Gough

CApainter said:


> Who introduced math into this thread? Paintings supposed to be all about feel, and illusion, not actual equations and such.


Were you told there'd be no math? Sorry, but it's, like, EVERYWHERE.


----------



## RH

*****


----------



## Gough

Seth The Painter said:


> Just how it goes on and and on and on about this behr issue.


This is pretty much how they all go.


----------



## stelzerpaintinginc.

PaintersUnite said:


> *Behr Marquee vs Sherwin Williams Duration
> 
> Enjoy!
> *
> Behr Marquee vs Sherwin Williams Duration coverage Test - YouTube



I've never used Marquee, but it wouldn't surprise me if it outperformed Duration interior. I can't remember even reading a thread about people loving interior Duration. IMO, it's Sherwins biggest paradox; the fact that ext Duration could be so good and int Duration be garbage.


----------



## George Z

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> I've never used Marquee, but it wouldn't surprise me if it outperformed Duration interior. I can't remember even reading a thread about people loving interior Duration. IMO, it's Sherwins biggest paradox; the fact that ext Duration could be so good and int Duration be garbage.


Agree, Duration interior is easy to beat, but seriously the guy sounds like he has
an agenda. I can make any mixture act just like that first liquid too. Just add some glaze. 
And he is demonstrating hiding, not "coverage".


----------



## chrisn

George Z said:


> Agree, Duration interior is easy to beat, but seriously the guy sounds like he has
> an agenda. I can make any mixture act just like that first liquid too. Just add some glaze.
> And he is demonstrating hiding, not "coverage".


oh, he has much, much more than that


----------



## PACman

CApainter said:


> Who introduced math into this thread? Paintings supposed to be all about feel, and illusion, not actual equations and such.


Someone said something about wanting proof. But sometimes the proof is a little hard to understand and a little murky. And therefore sometimes it is important to take someone with a little bit more knowledge and available information at their word. Especially when it is coming from someone who has nothing to loose or gain buy sharing that knowledge and information.

I really don't care if a painter uses Behr or not. I just like to share a little bit of information and schoolin' in hopes of helping people gain a little insight into aspects of this business that they may not be aware of.

I just sold $17,000.00 worth of one product in two days, all I did was order it, arrange the shipment, and invoice it. I really don't care how much profit some people leave on the table when they do a "good" job using a "good" product, in a "good" amount of time. I am just trying to get some people to consider looking into their business and consider what I am saying to possibly raise their game and profitability a little bit.


----------



## PACman

PaintersUnite said:


> *Behr Marquee vs Sherwin Williams Duration
> 
> Enjoy!
> *
> Behr Marquee vs Sherwin Williams Duration coverage Test - YouTube


I've done similar testing several times with duration and emerald and I agree with you 100% if what you are saying is that SW is very overrated and over priced. Marquee will cover better then Duration most of the time,


----------



## PACman

RH said:


> View attachment 57393
> *****


Hey I know a little bit about projectile physics also!


----------



## PACman

Gough said:


> This is pretty much how they all go.


You gotta admit that they can be entertaining on a rainy day though.


----------



## PACman

George Z said:


> Agree, Duration interior is easy to beat, but seriously the guy sounds like he has
> an agenda. I can make any mixture act just like that first liquid too. Just add some glaze.
> And he is demonstrating hiding, not "coverage".


There is so much this video doesn't reveal. But it is a pretty good way to compare two different paints. The only problem is that without being there when the test is being done you have no way of knowing if the results are being fudged. I'm not accusing anyone of doing that I am just saying it is more meaningful to be there to observe the test.

And one thing I have learned is that you can do these tests until your hair turns purple but most painters that see it will still never give up their SW happy ending.


----------



## DrakeB

PACman said:


> And one thing I have learned is that you can do these tests until your hair turns purple but most painters that see it will still never give up their SW happy ending.


There's one crew in my town that does near enough 100% of the commercial work. This is the reason I can't get him converted. Doesn't care about paint quality, application time, standing behind his work. Just the fun day at the end of the year when he gets his check. Not sure if he pockets it or if it goes into the company, but I don't have much of an answer for people who don't care about anything but the check.


----------



## Gough

PACman said:


> You gotta admit that they can be entertaining on a rainy day though.


What are these "rainy days" of which you speak? I have no recollection of such a thing.

Right now, ~ 1 million acres in WA, OR, and ID are on fire. We could use a few of those rainy days. Some of these fires will likely burn until the snow puts them out.


----------



## journeymanPainter

Gough said:


> What are these "rainy days" of which you speak? I have no recollection of such a thing.
> 
> Right now, ~ 1 million acres in WA, OR, and ID are on fire. We could use a few of those rainy days. Some of these fires will likely burn until the snow puts them out.


I too am surrounded but hundreds (maybe thousands) if hectares being burned. Could even smell it everyday for over a week.


----------



## Wildbill7145

journeymanPainter said:


> I too am surrounded but hundreds (maybe thousands) if hectares being burned. Could even smell it everyday for over a week.


I remember when we lived out there and the smoke from the BC interior fires would channel right down through the Fraser Valley. Air quality levels would drop like a rock.


----------



## PaintersUnite

PACman said:


> There is so much this video doesn't reveal. But it is a pretty good way to compare two different paints. The only problem is that without being there when the test is being done you have no way of knowing if the results are being fudged. I'm not accusing anyone of doing that I am just saying it is more meaningful to be there to observe the test.
> 
> And one thing I have learned is that you can do these tests until your hair turns purple but most painters that see it will still never give up their SW happy ending.


I have used both Duration / Emerald and BEHR Marquee and have seen a difference. So I would say his test is legitimate. And judging from the contractor that did the test, http://www.markspainting.com/#!about/cipy I don't believe he has any agenda, George.

BTW - He's a Florida Painter.


----------



## PACman

DrakeB said:


> There's one crew in my town that does near enough 100% of the commercial work. This is the reason I can't get him converted. Doesn't care about paint quality, application time, standing behind his work. Just the fun day at the end of the year when he gets his check. Not sure if he pockets it or if it goes into the company, but I don't have much of an answer for people who don't care about anything but the check.


And you will never convince them most of the time, because they are apparently rolling in so much money they don't need a 10-20% increase in profit. And you will never convince them how much profit they are losing by paying for the convenience of having an SW store in pretty much every town. They will never understand that if they can save 10% of the labor needed to paint every square foot they do by simply changing to a better product they will put a much higher percentage of money in their pockets.

That's why I have run many successful businesses and they are painters. I don't paint because I can't do it well enough and fast enough to earn a living at it. But most painters are quick to point out that they are not the best business people. I have always listened very carefully to what painters say about the application of paint, so I am better educated to service the needs of painters. I wish some of them could listen to our side, and maybe understand the business side a little better, and make their "business" a little more profitable.

If I had catered to the whims of every painter I contacted when I started this store, I would have brought in the cheapest paint that I could find. But I know this to be true- if I had done that in a couple of years I would be running my a55 off after every cheap commercial job in the state, having to sell at less and less of a profit margin, having to hire more people to staff the store, and having many, many times more complaints about product then I could ever justify with the piddling profit I would make.
So as a sound business decision I decided to carry higher quality paint lines and base my business around the concept of not being the cheapest paint store but the best. That means not giving in to the painters who only want the cheapest paint. That is a fools game.

So is using a particular brand because the homeowner bought it cheap or saw it on TV a good sound business practice over a long period of time? Most of the time no. And with so many painters claiming that they are so busy this year, and having to turn down work, isn't it a good time to fine tune your business a little bit? It's a lot easier to go after higher end work when business is good then when it is bad.


----------



## PaintersUnite

PACman said:


> I've done similar testing several times with duration and emerald and I agree with you 100% if what you are saying is that SW is very overrated and over priced. Marquee will cover better then Duration most of the time,


No, what I'm saying is that BEHR has decent products, that do a professional job. *I have used 100's of gallons of BEHR interior paints with much success. *I believe the guys that bash BEHR, never used their products other than a quart or 2, 10 years ago. 10 years ago, I too was a BEHR basher, but I gave their new improved products a try a few years ago, and was pleased with the out come. 

I will continue to use their paint despite what the naysayers have to say. And I have 35 years exp., under my belt and am a damn good painter. I am far from a rookie.


----------



## Gough

PACman said:


> And you will never convince them most of the time, because they are apparently rolling in so much money they don't need a 10-20% increase in profit. And you will never convince them how much profit they are losing by paying for the convenience of having an SW store in pretty much every town. They will never understand that if they can save 10% of the labor needed to paint every square foot they do by simply changing to a better product they will put a much higher percentage of money in their pockets.
> 
> That's why I have run many successful businesses and they are painters. I don't paint because I can't do it well enough and fast enough to earn a living at it. But most painters are quick to point out that they are not the best business people. I have always listened very carefully to what painters say about the application of paint, so I am better educated to service the needs of painters. I wish some of them could listen to our side, and maybe understand the business side a little better, and make their "business" a little more profitable.
> 
> If I had catered to the whims of every painter I contacted when I started this store, I would have brought in the cheapest paint that I could find. But I know this to be true- if I had done that in a couple of years I would be running my a55 off after every cheap commercial job in the state, having to sell at less and less of a profit margin, having to hire more people to staff the store, and having many, many times more complaints about product then I could ever justify with the piddling profit I would make.
> So as a sound business decision I decided to carry higher quality paint lines and base my business around the concept of not being the cheapest paint store but the best. That means not giving in to the painters who only want the cheapest paint. That is a fools game.
> 
> So is using a particular brand because the homeowner bought it cheap or saw it on TV a good sound business practice over a long period of time? Most of the time no. And with so many painters claiming that they are so busy this year, and having to turn down work, isn't it a good time to fine tune your business a little bit? It's a lot easier to go after higher end work when business is good then when it is bad.


:thumbup:

Nice to see people resisting the urge to join "the race to the bottom".


----------



## PACman

PaintersUnite said:


> No, what I'm saying is that BEHR has decent products, that do a professional job. *I have used 100's of gallons of BEHR interior paints with much success. *I believe the guys that bash BEHR, never used their products other than a quart or 2, 10 years ago. 10 years ago, I too was a BEHR basher, but I gave their new improved products a try a few years ago, and was pleased with the out come.
> 
> I will continue to use their paint despite what the naysayers have to say. And I have 35 years exp., under my belt and am a damn good painter. I am far from a rookie.


hey I'm not arguing your point at all. I have found that the Behr products are pretty good in their prospective price points. And the SW products tend to be average or below in their price points. I'm sure there are many other painters that have had success using Behr. Just keep it up, and I'll keep my doors open as well. It's all good.


----------



## PACman

Ok. I've learned what I needed to know. You can lock the thread now. The results were pretty much what I expected, thanks.


----------



## Wildbill7145

PACman said:


> Ok. I've learned what I needed to know. You can lock the thread now. The results were pretty much what I expected, thanks.


What? But there are so many things other than the original topic to be discussed in this thread? Baseball, favourite bubblegum flavour, etc.


----------



## DrakeB

We didn't really hit on Beatles vs. Stones very well, either.

Although not much discussion needs to be had; the Stones were clearly vastly superior.


----------



## PACman

DrakeB said:


> We didn't really hit on Beatles vs. Stones very well, either.
> 
> Although not much discussion needs to be had; the Stones were clearly vastly superior.


Stones. The Animals. on and on.








beatles be way down here.


----------



## DrakeB

Rush
--
--
--
Rolling Stones
--
--
--
--
--
--
--
--
--
--
Everyone else


----------



## PACman

I kind of like Einstein on acid as a band name.


----------



## PACman

Hey wait a minute! Aren't the Beatles one of the largest selling bands of all time? Doesn't just about everyone know who they are? Isn't their music---OK? Following paint brand logic that would make them the best band of all time right?


----------



## DrakeB

PACman said:


> Hey wait a minute! Aren't the Beatles one of the largest selling bands of all time? Doesn't just about everyone know who they are? Isn't their music---OK? Following paint brand logic that would make them the best band of all time right?


Probably, yes, for music. That's about the only objective criterion possible for music. For paint, on the other hand, there's many other objective criteria.


----------



## Wildbill7145

Seriously hard to believe the Stones have been together and touring since 1962.

I remember when the Steel Wheels tour was to be their last (I think). That was in '89.


----------



## DrakeB

Wildbill7145 said:


> Seriously hard to believe the Stones have been together and touring since 1962.
> 
> I remember when the Steel Wheels tour was to be their last (I think). That was in '89.


There have been quite a few "last" tours for them. I say keep going until the day you die.


----------



## Wildbill7145

DrakeB said:


> There have been quite a few "last" tours for them. I say keep going until the day you die.


Even guys Like DaArch and Gough were young fellers when the Stones started.

I'ne gonna get banned for that.


----------



## DrakeB

Wildbill7145 said:


> Even guys Like DaArch and Gough were young fellers when the Stones started.
> 
> I'ne gonna get banned for that.


I heard Gough lost his ban button. That's why they've let me stick around this long :whistling2:


----------



## Gough

H,


PACman said:


> Ok. I've learned what I needed to know. You can lock the thread now. The results were pretty much what I expected, thanks.


The rabidity of Behr fanboys/apologists seemingly knows no bounds. There have been past PT members who have gone to great lengths to convince the other members of the greatness of all things Behr. Some of those former members have even fabricated multiple identities, joined PT, and attempted to offer "proof" that the other members' experiences with that particular brand were without merit.

It brings to mind the PT Word of the Day: pathos.


----------



## Wildbill7145

Gough said:


> The rabidity of Behr fanboys/apologists seemingly know no bounds. There have been past PT members who have gone to great lengths to convince the other members of the greatness of all things Behr. Some of those former members have even fabricated multiple identities, joined PT, and attempted to offer "proof" that the other members' experiences with that particular brand were without merit.
> 
> It brings to mind the PT Word of the Day: pathos.


Why is this? If you like the stuff and like using it, go for it. I don't understand the necessity to convince people that it's great stuff when they don't think it is. Why care?

We need to get these people a Behr cheerleader uniform avitar or something.


----------



## DrakeB

When do I get to pick the PT Word of the Day? I can't even get an honorable mention


----------



## Wildbill7145

DrakeB said:


> When do I get to pick the PT Word of the Day? I can't even get an honorable mention


When you are ready young grasshopper.


----------



## Gough

DrakeB said:


> When do I get to pick the PT Word of the Day? I can't even get an honorable mention


This post evokes feelings of sympathy, sadness.

/See what I did there?


----------



## PACman

Gough said:


> The rabidity of Behr fanboys/apologists seemingly know no bounds. There have been past PT members who have gone to great lengths to convince the other members of the greatness of all things Behr. Some of those former members have even fabricated multiple identities, joined PT, and attempted to offer "proof" that the other members' experiences with that particular brand were without merit.
> 
> It brings to mind the PT Word of the Day: pathos.


This was part of my "market research", but it actually turned into "should I waste my time trying to teach my ten year old dog not to pee in the house" research. Because frankly, I really care quite a bit more about my ten year old dogs propensity to pee in the house then I do about some painters making "good" money using behr. In the words of Kelly Bundy-"case of rum,case of rum."


----------



## RH

Wildbill7145 said:


> Why is this? If you like the stuff and like using it, go for it. I don't understand the necessity to convince people that it's great stuff when they don't think it is. Why care?
> 
> We need to get these people a Behr cheerleader uniform avitar or something.


Obviously, for some of them it's because they know it will elicit responses, comments, and interactions - in effect attention of any type, positive or negative. 

I am convinced that if those who generally don't care for Behr, and *really* hate threads about it, were to ignore such threads/posts, much of the fun would evaporate for those enjoying the potential drama. The best way to deal with those seeking attention is to deny giving it to them. Better yet, use the "ignore" feature for those you know enjoy stirring the pot in these threads.


----------



## Oden

Does Lowes's have a paint brand. I don't know the answer. If they do they must not advertise or whatever? All the Behr talk and never any Lowes whatever they got talk ever comes up.


----------



## DrakeB

Oden said:


> Does Lowes's have a paint brand. I don't know the answer. If they do they must not advertise or whatever? All the Behr talk and never any Lowes whatever they got talk ever comes up.


Lowes mainly stocks Valspar (or did in the past, at least). I think they now have a SW line or two as well. Every knows that the majority of Valspar's stuff is DIY garbage, so there's not much to discuss. I've heard one or two of their new products aren't terrible. I'd still never risk using a Valspar product after having seen their "customer service" in the past.


----------



## Wildbill7145

Oden said:


> Does Lowes's have a paint brand. I don't know the answer. If they do they must not advertise or whatever? All the Behr talk and never any Lowes whatever they got talk ever comes up.


Good point. I just checked. In Canada, they sell SW and Para primarily. In the US, they appear to front SW for the most part. Don't appear to have a house brand.


----------



## chrisn

DrakeB said:


> Lowes mainly stocks Valspar (or did in the past, at least). I think they now have a SW line or two as well. Every knows that the majority of Valspar's stuff is DIY garbage, so there's not much to discuss. I've heard one or two of their new products aren't terrible. I'd still never risk using a Valspar product after having seen their "customer service" in the past.


You will not discuss the bear but make that statement? I agree but man oh man:whistling2:


----------



## chrisn

PaintersUnite said:


> No, what I'm saying is that BEHR has decent products, that do a professional job. *I have used 100's of gallons of BEHR interior paints with much success. *I believe the guys that bash BEHR, never used their products other than a quart or 2, 10 years ago. 10 years ago, I too was a BEHR basher, but I gave their new improved products a try a few years ago, and was pleased with the out come.
> 
> I will continue to use their paint despite what the naysayers have to say. And I have 35 years exp., under my belt and am a damn good painter. I am far from a rookie.


Keep on saying that and maybe, just maybe, you will get some sucker to actually believe it


----------



## SemiproJohn

DrakeB said:


> Lowes mainly stocks Valspar (or did in the past, at least). I think they now have a SW line or two as well. Every knows that the majority of Valspar's stuff is DIY garbage, so there's not much to discuss. I've heard one or two of their new products aren't terrible. I'd still never risk using a Valspar product after having seen their "customer service" in the past.


This post triggered my failing memory banks. I found the "Sherwin Williams at Lowe's" thread and have spent quite some time re-reading the comments.

Lowe's carries Ovation and Showcase and HGTV from SW, as well as a more limited offering of Valspar lines.

PacMan and ShermanMoore pretty much figured out that the Ovation line is just re-labeled Superpaint that costs DIY less per gallon from Lowe's than many contractors can get Superpaint for at SW.


----------



## PaintersUnite

RH said:


> Wildbill7145 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is this? If you like the stuff and like using it, go for it. I don't understand the necessity to convince people that it's great stuff when they don't think it is. Why care?
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously, for some of them it's because they know it will elicit responses, comments, and interactions - in effect attention of any type, positive or negative.
> 
> I am convinced that if those who generally don't care for Behr, and really hate threads about it, were to ignore such threads/posts, much of the fun would evaporate for those enjoying the potential drama. *The best way to deal with those seeking attention is to deny giving it to them*. Better yet, use the "ignore" feature for those you know enjoy stirring the pot in these threads.
Click to expand...

I find, your perspective on things, backwards and an example of reverse thinking. I assure you, I can find many better things to do than seek attention from a bunch of painters. 

This is how I see things, a person makes a post expressing a successful painting project done with BEHR paints, and the PT rabbit BEHR haters come out in droves; booing, snickering and heckling the OP or anyone that supports BEHR. 

In case you haven't notice it, the majority of this thread and all BEHR treads on PT, are the BEHR haters bashing away. These are the people that need to be ignored. Oddly, most of them having little, to no experience at all, using their products. 

So to view a person like myself, who expresses a positive experience using BEHR, as an attention seeker, is sad.


----------



## PaintersUnite

DrakeB said:


> We didn't really hit on Beatles vs. Stones very well, either.
> 
> Although not much discussion needs to be had; the *Stones were clearly vastly superior*.


I don't agree. The Beatles were a short lived group, due to personalty problems and egos. I believe they only toured for 4 years as The Beatles. And in their short time as a group, they had many hit songs. 

Every member of the Beatles had a successful solo career, writing and producing many top 40 hits. Where as, none of the Stones members had any luck as a solo artist.


----------



## PaintersUnite

Wildbill7145 said:


> Why is this? If you like the stuff and like using it, go for it.  I don't understand the necessity to convince people that it's great stuff when they don't think it is. Why care?
> 
> We need to get these people a Behr cheerleader uniform avitar or something.


I am not the type on person that makes post complaining about paints or any product. And I am not trying to convince anyone that BEHR is great stuff. In any and all of my posts regarding BEHR, I have never said that BEHR paint is great stuff. I have only stated my experience with BEHR.


----------



## Gough

DrakeB said:


> Lowes mainly stocks Valspar (or did in the past, at least). I think they now have a SW line or two as well. Every knows that the majority of Valspar's stuff is DIY garbage, so there's not much to discuss. I've heard one or two of their new products aren't terrible. I'd still never risk using a Valspar product after having seen their "customer service" in the past.


I have to wonder, why are there no Valspar fanboys?? Is that the reason?


----------



## RH

Been using my HVLP to spray Kelly Moore's Dura-Poxi on some of those inexpensive wood embossed doors. Having great success with very little tinkering with the paint. Of course (luckily for me) those doors are almost idiot proof to paint, spray or otherwise. I'd post pics but you guys would just accuse me of doctoring them up so what's the point?


----------



## PaintersUnite

You guys will be proud. Here are the paints from my current painting project.

BTW - Check out the size of this basement.


----------



## CApainter

That's an awesome space!


----------



## chrisn

PaintersUnite said:


> I don't agree. The Beatles were a short lived group, due to personalty problems and egos. I believe they only toured for 4 years as The Beatles. And in their short time as a group, they had many hit songs.
> 
> Every member of the Beatles had a successful solo career, writing and producing many top 40 hits. Where as, none of the Stones members had any luck as a solo artist.


name 4 or 5 of Ringo's solo hits


----------



## Seth The Painter

Nice site I'd spray dry fall everywhere there if I could.


----------



## PACman

Gough said:


> I have to wonder, why are there no Valspar fanboys?? Is that the reason?


That can't be the reason can it? If so then there wouldn't be any Behr supporters either, because Home depot has the same problems generally speaking that Lowe's has in the customer service arena.

the answer is that Home Depot/Behr have done a better job of convincing people that their service and paint is better than Lowe's. I would agree that for the most part Behr is a better product line then Valspar, but the service at Home Depot is fairly close to being as piss poor as Lowe's. So I wonder if that is the determining factor.

OR, Home Depot has hired a much more capable internet reputation/marketing company and they have deployed more corporate trolls onto the interweb. If someone paid me $20 an hour to sit at home on the computer all day and bash competitors as well as trumping up a product I would jump at the chance. Don't think for a second that it doesn't happen, because I have already been contacted by several companies to do just that for my store. Paying people to troll like that is also one of the ways that a company can raise their internet profile by having more people mention their name. And as more and more people type in "Behr", the further forward the search term "Behr" moves forward in the search functions. For example if someone simply types in "behr" on google, the higher Behr's profile count is the earlier and more frequently it will show up on the search function. Generating a positive buzz and turning around negative comments either one creates a higher profile for Behr. And thus, more sales.

It's part of marketing your brand nowadays, and don't you dare believe that there aren't some of those trolls on PT.


----------



## PaintersUnite

"You’re Sixteen" 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=16&v=HWcEzsYxtb4


"Photograph" 





"It Don’t Come Easy" 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=15&v=4x19vy_9aFc


*Here's the trick question?*
Name 1 by Charlie Watts? ha


----------



## PACman

PaintersUnite said:


> You guys will be proud. Here are the paints from my current painting project.
> 
> BTW - Check out the size of this basement.


Eh, not really. It's Sw so I'm not particularly impressed. It'll work ok for you though.


----------



## PACman

Wildbill7145 said:


> Seriously hard to believe the Stones have been together and touring since 1962.
> 
> I remember when the Steel Wheels tour was to be their last (I think). That was in '89.


What about Chuck Berry? He did a short tour in Europe just a couple of years ago and he still has a regular gig at a club in New Orleans every Wednesday night. He's damn near 90!


----------



## Criard

Gough said:


> I have to wonder, why are there no Valspar fanboys?? Is that the reason?



I love Valspar!!!

That is to say, I've used their new lines at Ace, Optimus a number of times and Aspire a few times in my own house and I really liked how they went on and are holding up. The Optimus reminded me a lot of Aura, with its weird drying and cutting-in time.

I have no problem using either of those products, or their Lowe's equivalent (Reserve and something else I think), but from what I've been hearing on here I would never touch anything lower grade of theirs.


----------



## PACman

Criard said:


> I love Valspar!!!
> 
> That is to say, I've used their new lines at Ace, Optimus a number of times and Aspire a few times in my own house and I really liked how they went on and are holding up. The Optimus reminded me a lot of Aura, with its weird drying and cutting-in time.
> 
> I have no problem using either of those products, or their Lowe's equivalent (Reserve and something else I think), but from what I've been hearing on here I would never touch anything lower grade of theirs.


I've heard quite a few times that the Valspar lines that are carried by Ace are a higher quality the what Lowe's carries. I wouldn't have any doubt that that is true.


----------



## DrakeB

Gough said:


> I have to wonder, why are there no Valspar fanboys?? Is that the reason?


There's people that use it out there, but I think they might be more embarrassed than Behr users to admit it. Like I said, there's a few of their paints that aren't the worst paints on the market... but having directly experienced their "service" and "support" I could live without ever looking at a can of Valspar just based on that alone. Unlike with Behr, I actually do have the experience with Valspar to say "to hell with them."


----------



## DrakeB

SemiproJohn said:


> This post triggered my failing memory banks. I found the "Sherwin Williams at Lowe's" thread and have spent quite some time re-reading the comments.
> 
> Lowe's carries Ovation and Showcase and HGTV from SW, as well as a more limited offering of Valspar lines.
> 
> PacMan and ShermanMoore pretty much figured out that the Ovation line is just re-labeled Superpaint that costs DIY less per gallon from Lowe's than many contractors can get Superpaint for at SW.


Like I think I mentioned in that thread, Lowes was _much_ more heavily invested in Valspar previously (to the point where Valspar was treating everyone else of their vendors like crap), but then rapidly shrunk their offerings and marketing for the Valspar in order to push the SW relabels. As much as SW getting bigger doesn't particularly benefit anyone in the painting world, I very much enjoyed seeing Valspar get shafted after their treatment of everyone else.


----------



## CApainter

I used Valspar in my own home primarily because of the convenience. Lowes is really close to me, and I just charged it on my Lowes Card like I do most of my little home improvement projects. 

They have a nice color selection, and frankly, the Lowes store near me is kept very clean and organized unlike their competitor not far away. I used the interior flat and satin trim. I had zero problems applying it and the hide was very good. However, I did get a little more picture framing shine then what was acceptable. But I think that had more to do with natural lighting streaming down a narrow hallway.

Like a lot of these big box store paints, if you're just changing interior colors and don't plan on scrubbing fingerprints off of walls, they are adequate. But the run issues I had with BEHR prevents me from using it again.

I have to add that I prefer Kelly Moore, and do shop at their local store whenever I can.


----------



## The Cutting Edge

After I swore off Sherwin Williams I used the Valspar Reserve for quite a while and I think its great paint. All the trouble it took to get some paint mixed and dealing with whoever happened to be at the paint desk was just too much crap to have to go through.
I have since found a store that carries Pratt and Lambert in my area and been really enjoying that. Does anyone else use Pratt and Lambert?


----------



## Gough

DrakeB said:


> Like I think I mentioned in that thread, Lowes was _much_ more heavily invested in Valspar previously (to the point where Valspar was treating everyone else of their vendors like crap), but then rapidly shrunk their offerings and marketing for the Valspar in order to push the SW relabels. As much as SW getting bigger doesn't particularly benefit anyone in the painting world, I very much enjoyed seeing Valspar get shafted after their treatment of everyone else.


Interesting. Our largest local lumberyard used to be a BM dealer and did a good business: good staff, good selection, etc. Valspar offered them remodeling $$ to redo the paint section, and they dropped BM like a hot potato. Fortunately, their top guy left to start his own BM store. Unfortunately, it is 35 miles away versus the 10 blocks to the local 'yard. To deal with this, the BM dealer has daily deliveries here, meaning the local has lost its contractor base...and a lot of HO's as well.


----------



## DrakeB

Gough said:


> Interesting. Our largest local lumberyard used to be a BM dealer and did a good business: good staff, good selection, etc. Valspar offered them remodeling $$ to redo the paint section, and they dropped BM like a hot potato. Fortunately, their top guy left to start his own BM store. Unfortunately, it is 35 miles away versus the 10 blocks to the local 'yard. To deal with this, the BM dealer has daily deliveries here, meaning the local has lost its contractor base...and a lot of HO's as well.


BM definitely requires a dedicated staff to sell. If you just let it sit on the shelf and don't talk to the customers that come in, it's never going to sell. People are just going to get sticker shock and walk out. I think for a lot of yards, they don't have the staff or the time to sell BM. I'm glad we do.


----------



## RH

DrakeB said:


> BM definitely requires a dedicated staff to sell. If you just let it sit on the shelf and don't talk to the customers that come in, it's never going to sell. People are just going to get sticker shock and walk out. I think for a lot of yards, they don't have the staff or the time to sell BM. I'm glad we do.


That's exactly the situation here and why I don't use much BM. I don't want to have to hunt someone down to assist me or trust some 18 year old kid who was just stacking 2×4s to do a color match.


----------



## DrakeB

RH said:


> That's exactly the situation here and why I don't use much BM. I don't want to have to hunt someone down to assist me or trust some 18 year old kid who was just stacking 2×4s to do a color match.


Always a shame when people aren't dedicated to the product they sell. Though, to be fair, I just came in from stacking 2x4's and then did a color match. Why do you hate me RH


----------



## Gough

DrakeB said:


> Always a shame when people aren't dedicated to the product they sell. Though, to be fair, I just came in from stacking 2x4's and then did a color match. Why do you hate me RH


I do hope that, at your age, they only make you stack the 8-footers....

To do otherwise, to make the old guys stack the big pieces...well, that's just mean.


----------



## DrakeB

Gough said:


> I do hope that, at your age, they only make you stack the 8-footers....
> 
> To do otherwise, to make the old guys stack the big pieces...well, that's just mean.


Can I change your title to "Meanerator" :icon_cry:


----------



## RH

Gough said:


> I do hope that, at your age, they only make you stack the 8-footers....
> 
> To do otherwise, to make the old guys stack the big pieces...well, that's just mean.


And* then* only 1x2s.


----------



## PACman

The Cutting Edge said:


> After I swore off Sherwin Williams I used the Valspar Reserve for quite a while and I think its great paint. All the trouble it took to get some paint mixed and dealing with whoever happened to be at the paint desk was just too much crap to have to go through.
> I have since found a store that carries Pratt and Lambert in my area and been really enjoying that. Does anyone else use Pratt and Lambert?


Me. Every day. Side by side with just about every other paint on the market. Roll-outs, brush-outs, drawdowns, you name it. If you get down to the aesthetics of the finish, P&L will give you one of the smoothest, most consistent finishes of almost any paint you can buy. Even better the California Paints in most cases. I took on the P&L line by default when the other local paint store closed. before that I had never tried any P&L product. I must say I have been pleasantly surprised by the P&L line.
And if you ever take the time to do an honest, un-biased comparison you will see that there is no way it is just re-labelled SW. Don't believe everything the noob who's only job is to sell you SW tells you!


----------



## PACman

DrakeB said:


> BM definitely requires a dedicated staff to sell. If you just let it sit on the shelf and don't talk to the customers that come in, it's never going to sell. People are just going to get sticker shock and walk out. I think for a lot of yards, they don't have the staff or the time to sell BM. I'm glad we do.


At the True Value store I worked at that was a BM dealer they couldn't understand the concept of having to have dedicated staff in their paint department. They had a great setup for tinting and shaking for a hardware store, with plenty of storage space separate from the sales floor. (In fact they had almost 900 sq.ft. of dedicated service area off of the main floor).
Yet when every painter in town and the local university told them the main reason they wouldn't buy from them was because they always had me working somewhere else, it was in one ear and out the other. I actually worked with a painter on a job painting the RPM headquarters near Cleveland, as they had spec'ed Aura for the exterior of their building. Two times he came in for color samples for their execs and I wasn't there, so he got pissed and went to a BM dealer closer to the job. They had no idea how big of a sale they had lost. One of those days I was off, and the guy who was covering the department was god knows where. the other time I was at the warehouse two blocks away unloading refrigerators with 12 other store employees. Why the hell they needed 12 people to unload 18 refrigerators is the question.

But in a nutshell that is the problem with buying something that has to be serviced when you buy it. It usually has to be tinted or at least shooken, and by not having someone there to do it at all times causes the painters to waste their time with their thumbs up their butts waiting for someone to do it. Think about it, if you are saving $10 a gallon for paint, but are wasting 1/2 hour to 3/4 and hour worth of labor everyday what are you gaining? And if they make a mistake? Even more labor wasted.
And do you think when you send an employee down to the Depot to get a mistint replaced that he is going to be in any particular hurry to get back on the job when he can stand around the Home Depot looking at pretty girls and soaking up the air-conditioning when he can blame them for it?


----------



## PACman

DrakeB said:


> Always a shame when people aren't dedicated to the product they sell. Though, to be fair, I just came in from stacking 2x4's and then did a color match. Why do you hate me RH


I remember coming in to the store from helping stack wet bags of manure and having a decorina and her client waiting for me. "I'll be right there as soon as I wash this sh*t off my hands!".
Hell of an impression for a BM dealer, even in that hokey town. At least I smelled like the Amish customers that day.


----------



## PACman

Any how I propose a vote of all PT members to decide whether all future Behr and Valspar threads be cheerfully moved to the DIY forum by a mod. 90% of their advertising is geared towards duping the DIY masses so I propose that the 90% of the members of this forum that are professionals shouldn't have to behr any more of these useless threads. Who's with me?


----------



## DrakeB

PACman said:


> They had a great setup for tinting and shaking for a hardware store, with plenty of storage space separate from the sales floor. (In fact they had almost 900 sq.ft. of dedicated service area off of the main floor).


To give you fellas an idea of what I work with, that's almost as big as my whole store and we also stock hardware and power tools, etc.


----------



## DrakeB

PACman said:


> Any how I propose a vote of all PT members to decide whether all future Behr and Valspar threads be cheerfully moved to the DIY forum by a mod. 90% of their advertising is geared towards duping the DIY masses so I propose that the 90% of the members of this forum that are professionals shouldn't have to behr any more of these useless threads. Who's with me?


Aside from a few bad apples spoiling it, this one actually wasn't a terrible thread.


----------



## SemiproJohn

The guy requested 4 or 5 hits that he obviously doesn't think exist. You have graciously provided three. Here is a fourth.

Back Off Boogaloo

This is regarding Ringo Starr obviously.


----------



## DrakeB

I'd rather a band put out lots of great stuff than split up and do individual careers. I mean, can you really count individual careers to the band's credit? I don't think so. That raises all kinds of questions about Whitesnake and Deep Purple, too.


----------



## CApainter

PACman said:


> Any how I propose a vote of all PT members to decide whether all future Behr and Valspar threads be cheerfully moved to the DIY forum by a mod. 90% of their advertising is geared towards duping the DIY masses so I propose that the 90% of the members of this forum that are professionals shouldn't have to behr any more of these useless threads. Who's with me?


You'd be enabling the duping, right?

I don't know why so many professional painters and suppliers here treat BEHR and Valspar like Kryptonite. If a homeowner does the painting, they'll likely use the big box products. If a professional painter does the painting, they'll likely use their favorite professional brand of paint. 

I don't understand why all the fuss.


----------



## Wildbill7145

PACman said:


> Any how I propose a vote of all PT members to decide whether all future Behr and Valspar threads be cheerfully moved to the DIY forum by a mod. 90% of their advertising is geared towards duping the DIY masses so I propose that the 90% of the members of this forum that are professionals shouldn't have to behr any more of these useless threads. Who's with me?


But then we wouldn't have as many entertaining threads like this one.

I'm kind of hoping this one makes it to 19 pages based on the thread title.

Go go go!


----------



## PACman

Wildbill7145 said:


> But then we wouldn't have as many entertaining threads like this one.
> 
> I'm kind of hoping this one makes it to 19 pages based on the thread title.
> 
> Go go go!


I've done what I can. Maybe I'll come up with something to post to carry it through the weekend.


----------



## PACman

Is D'arch on vacation from retirement or something? I haven't seen post on this thread for a couple of days. Or he could just be fed up.


----------



## SemiproJohn

PACman said:


> Is D'arch on vacation from retirement or something? I haven't seen post on this thread for a couple of days. Or he could just be fed up.


Maybe he's busy applying some Behr to that ceiling he recently scraped? :whistling2:


----------



## Wildbill7145

SemiproJohn said:


> Maybe he's busy applying some Behr to that ceiling he recently scraped? :whistling2:


Unprimed. Cuz, u know.


----------



## PACman

He just posted on another thread. It appears he has been working again. Something about being sweaty and tired or some such thing.
I invoiced three $5600 sales today in my air-conditioned store so I can totally relate. I am bushed!


----------



## DrakeB

PACman said:


> He just posted on another thread. It appears he has been working again. Something about being sweaty and tired or some such thing.
> I invoiced three $5600 sales today in my air-conditioned store so I can totally relate. I am bushed!


I spent my lunch break unloading 9' studs today


----------



## The Cutting Edge

PACman said:


> Any how I propose a vote of all PT members to decide whether all future Behr and Valspar threads be cheerfully moved to the DIY forum by a mod. 90% of their advertising is geared towards duping the DIY masses so I propose that the 90% of the members of this forum that are professionals shouldn't have to behr any more of these useless threads. Who's with me?


Any post that has the name Behr in it is always my first click. All the best action and drama is found in the Behr threads. Everyone has something to say about it. Was thinking about posting an issue with one of my pumps and calling the thread "Behr is the best paint in the world" just to get good traffic.


----------



## PACman

The Cutting Edge said:


> Any post that has the name Behr in it is always my first click. All the best action and drama is found in the Behr threads. Everyone has something to say about it. Was thinking about posting an issue with one of my pumps and calling the thread "Behr is the best paint in the world" just to get good traffic.


Hey once again, glad I could help out. There's a new Marquee thread going did you check it out yet? I got a feeling this one is about to peter out.


----------



## PACman

Maybe I should start a Donald Trump thread.


----------



## Seth The Painter

Not me I'm a benji guy always have been always will be. Valspar now this is getting a Lil too crazy for me.


----------



## Wildbill7145

PACman said:


> I got a feeling this one is about to peter out.


It will make 19 pages even if we have to resort to talking about what shoe laces Ringo Starr used.


----------



## DrakeB

PACman said:


> Maybe I should start a Donald Trump thread.


I think there's already one in the PZ.


----------



## PACman

Wildbill7145 said:


> It will make 19 pages even if we have to resort to talking about what shoe laces Ringo Starr used.


Paul is a putz. always has been. John was an emo before the word even existed. Ringo was, well, a drummer. George was a bit creepy.

Ok that should carry it through the weekend. 5:30- I'm outta here!


----------



## The Cutting Edge

PACman said:


> Maybe I should start a Donald Trump thread.


It sure has been nice to hear what someone actually thinks without 50 people studying the outcome in a room somewhere before he says it.
Maybe some Donald Trump will get this post through the weekend. Just checked out the Marquee thread long enough to see D'arch over there.
Think he gave up on this one.


----------



## Wildbill7145

.......


----------



## PaintersUnite

DrakeB said:


> I'd rather a band put out lots of great stuff than split up and do individual careers. I mean, can you really count individual careers to the band's credit? I don't think so. That raises all kinds of questions about Whitesnake and Deep Purple, too.


Whitesnake was a band, not a solo career.
And Deep Purple had a revolving door of members. 

*Deep Purple * 

Members 

Ian Paice
Ian Gillan
Roger Glover
Steve Morse
Don Airey

Past members 

Jon Lord
Ritchie Blackmore
Rod Evans
Nick Simper
Glenn Hughes
David Coverdale
Tommy Bolin
Joe Lynn Turner
Joe Satriani


----------



## PaintersUnite

DrakeB said:


> I spent my lunch break unloading 9' studs today


Oh, so you did work today? With all the posts you've made today, I was certain it was your day off. My Bad! :whistling2:



DrakeB said:


> *BM definitely requires a dedicated staff to sell*. If you just let it sit on the shelf and don't talk to the customers that come in, it's never going to sell.


Judging from your *many daily posts* on PT, Mon thru Fri, from the hours of 9am to 5pm, I can see you are an extremely dedicated BM associate. I don't know where you find time to bad mouth your competitors? 

Funny, those paint clerks you speak of at home depot and lowes, would be fired, for spending so much of the companies time, playing on the internet. As a matter of fact, Home Depot and Lowes employees, are not to be texting or taking personal calls on the sales floor. 



DrakeB said:


> There's people that use it out there, but I think they might be more embarrassed than Behr users to admit it. Like I said, there's a few of their paints that aren't the worst paints on the market... but having directly experienced their "service" and "support" I could live without ever looking at a can of Valspar just based on that alone. Unlike with Behr, I actually do have the experience with Valspar to say "to hell with them."


*Some advice: 

*NEVER bad-mouth your competitors!


DO talk about your strengths
DO explain why your product is strong / solid / high-performing / a good choice
DO emphasize what you / your company has to offer
But stop short of directly criticizing your competition. It makes you look bad. It makes you look unprofessional.


----------



## Seth The Painter

Tell em drake! Started from the bottom now we're here.


----------



## RH

Just a reminder for everyone - so things don't start to spin out of control.


_Forum Posting Rules:

The following is a list of basic guidelines about what is and is not allowed while posting on our site. These rules are in addition to what is listed in our Terms Of Service , and Advertising Rules. Please read through all of these sections before using our site and contact us if you have questions..

Users shall treat each other with respect at all times on PaintTalk.com. Name calling, personal attacks, or other inappropriate behavior will not be allowed and may cause your account to be banned.
As stated in our Advertising Rules, you may not post advertisements on our site unless your a local painting contractor displaying your business info. Members who try to sell products and/or services to painting contractors will have their accounts revoked.
No pornographic material, links to pornographic material, or any form of nudity may be posted on this site. In addition to nudity, all forms of sexual content (images, jokes, etc...) are prohibited from being posted on the site. This includes images of scantily clad men or women. Please help us keep this site family friendly.
Profanity shall be kept to a minimum.
You may only post material and content that you own. Posting copyrighted material, trademarks, and other violations of the DMCA is prohibited..
These rules may be altered at anytime without notice so please check this page often. Thanks.
_


----------



## ReNt A PaInTeR

What the hell happened to PT??


----------



## Seth The Painter

What happened is drake got em like run Forrest run Forrest lol


----------



## CApainter

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> What the hell happened to PT??


We're all very serious business men now. The slap happy days are over. We've matured in other words. Get with the program or you may BEHR the brunt of the ban hammer. This forum stuff is serious business. Which reminds me, what ever happened to Captain Banjo? I hope he's doing OK.


----------



## slinger58

Captain Banjo? Musta been before my time.
But I'd rather talk about banjos than behrs.


----------



## ReNt A PaInTeR

CApainter said:


> We're all very serious business men now. The slap happy days are over. We've matured in other words. Get with the program or you may BEHR the brunt of the ban hammer. This forum stuff is serious business. Which reminds me, what ever happened to Captain Banjo? I hope he's doing OK.


LMFAO. Poor guy still complains about his Graco 5900 over Drywall talk. :lol:


----------



## daArch

PACman said:


> Is D'arch on vacation from retirement or something? I haven't seen post on this thread for a couple of days. Or he could just be fed up.



That's for the mention and keeping the focus on ME :whistling2:

Couple of days up north with the cousins.

We be back now so I will resume my normal duties of lowering the collective PT IQ :thumbsup:


----------



## daArch

RH said:


> Just a reminder for everyone - so things don't start to spin out of control.
> 
> 
> _Forum Posting Rules:
> 
> The following is a list of basic guidelines about what is and is not allowed while posting on our site. These rules are in addition to what is listed in our Terms Of Service , and Advertising Rules. Please read through all of these sections before using our site and contact us if you have questions..
> 
> Users shall treat each other with respect at all times on PaintTalk.com. Name calling, personal attacks, or other inappropriate behavior will not be allowed and may cause your account to be banned.
> As stated in our Advertising Rules, you may not post advertisements on our site unless your a local painting contractor displaying your business info. Members who try to sell products and/or services to painting contractors will have their accounts revoked.
> No pornographic material, links to pornographic material, or any form of nudity may be posted on this site. In addition to nudity, all forms of sexual content (images, jokes, etc...) are prohibited from being posted on the site. This includes images of scantily clad men or women. Please help us keep this site family friendly.
> Profanity shall be kept to a minimum.
> You may only post material and content that you own. Posting copyrighted material, trademarks, and other violations of the DMCA is prohibited..
> These rules may be altered at anytime without notice so please check this page often. Thanks.
> _


I remember the good old days when multiple warnings were never given :thumbup:


----------



## ReNt A PaInTeR

daArch said:


> That's for the mention and keeping the focus on ME :whistling2:
> 
> Couple of days up north with the cousins.
> 
> We be back now so I will resume my normal duties of lowering the collective PT IQ :thumbsup:


You should go visit NEPS now that you are retired.


----------



## daArch

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> You should go visit NEPS now that you are retired.


He's changed his business name and model, I wonder if I could track him down.


----------



## ReNt A PaInTeR

daArch said:


> He's changed his business name and model, I wonder if I could track him down.


Are you serious?


----------



## ReNt A PaInTeR

daArch said:


> He's changed his business name and model, I wonder if I could track him down.


Found him. He is got a nice website .


----------



## daArch

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> Are you serious?


Yes.
But this is only from what was hinted by his northern buddy


----------



## RH

daArch said:


> I remember the good old days when multiple warnings were never given :thumbup:


Well, we're kinder and gentler mod team these days - except Wolf, he's still a right bast.... uh, cough, cough... :whistling2:


----------



## chrisn

PaintersUnite said:


> Oh, so you did work today? With all the posts you've made today, I was certain it was your day off. My Bad! :whistling2:
> 
> 
> 
> Judging from your *many daily posts* on PT, Mon thru Fri, from the hours of 9am to 5pm, I can see you are an extremely dedicated BM associate. I don't know where you find time to bad mouth your competitors?
> 
> Funny, those paint clerks you speak of at home depot and lowes, would be fired, for spending so much of the companies time, playing on the internet. As a matter of fact, Home Depot and Lowes employees, are not to be texting or taking personal calls on the sales floor.
> 
> 
> 
> *Some advice:
> 
> *NEVER bad-mouth your competitors!
> 
> 
> DO talk about your strengths
> DO explain why your product is strong / solid / high-performing / a good choice
> DO emphasize what you / your company has to offer
> But stop short of directly criticizing your competition. It makes you look bad. It makes you look unprofessional.


who , unfortunately, know nothing about paint and or how to apply it, none of them:no:


----------



## PACman

daArch said:


> I remember the good old days when multiple warnings were never given :thumbup:


If you have mad management skills like I do, you can get your point across without having to belittle or bad mouth anyone. If you re-read some of my earlier posts on this thread a little closer, and your comprehension is good, you will understand what I mean.

I have been accused of putting a lot of my actual meaning "between the lines", but no, it's right there in black and white.


----------



## daArch

RH said:


> Well, we're kinder and gentler mod team these days - except Wolf, he's still a right bast.... uh, cough, cough... :whistling2:


That's great to hear, so we all can expect no serious repercussions for disrespectful posts, trolling, stalking, phone threats, and multiple aliases .

YAHOO, just like the old usenet days. This is gonna be fun once again :thumbsup:

can't wait to we have dozens of the split personalities on PT.


----------



## PACman

PaintersUnite said:


> Oh, so you did work today? With all the posts you've made today, I was certain it was your day off. My Bad! :whistling2:
> 
> 
> 
> Judging from your *many daily posts* on PT, Mon thru Fri, from the hours of 9am to 5pm, I can see you are an extremely dedicated BM associate. I don't know where you find time to bad mouth your competitors?
> 
> Funny, those paint clerks you speak of at home depot and lowes, would be fired, for spending so much of the companies time, playing on the internet. As a matter of fact, Home Depot and Lowes employees, are not to be texting or taking personal calls on the sales floor.
> 
> 
> 
> *Some advice:
> 
> *NEVER bad-mouth your competitors!
> 
> 
> DO talk about your strengths
> DO explain why your product is strong / solid / high-performing / a good choice
> DO emphasize what you / your company has to offer
> But stop short of directly criticizing your competition. It makes you look bad. It makes you look unprofessional.




Really? Someone needs to tell the guys at SW that. They have been badmouthing me and my store since the day I opened from what my customers are saying. No one from the local SW stores even knows who I am or has any idea what kind of experience I have. In fact not one of them has ever even been in my store, yet I shop my competition on a regular basis. But bad mouthing a competitor is all the game they got, whereas I shop them, buy product to judge their service, test their products, allow my customers to do side by side testing with my product against the paint brand of their choice, and I test their products myself. And believe me, if any paint retailer needs to be bad mouthed it is Home Depot. This of course may not apply at the Home Depots in your area, but if not you should consider yourself very lucky.

I have mentioned that I sometimes have downtime in my store. I usually spend part of it calling painters, but quite a lot of the time I spend on the internet trolling for paint info and education. I spend most of THAT time on PT because that is were I find the most interesting discussions and valuable information. 

Also keep in mind that I have had quite a lot of experience having to deal with Behr as a "competitor", and the myriad of complaints and major problems they have caused many, many painters and DIY'ers. They started off making a **** product to stain new growth redwood red long enough to get it installed and their ideals on their business haven't changed. Make an adequate product and maximize the profit by marketing the hell out of it. If it wasn't for Home Depot and their huge marketing department, Behr would have been extinct a loooong time ago. None of their products, not one of them, could stand on it's own in the paint industry, as evidenced by their near bankruptcy when they had their freestanding stores in California. Painters and DIY'ers avoided the Behr brand in droves. The company that bought them, (hell I can't remember who it is) already was a Home Depot supplier, and their association with HD, and HD's desire to have a "captive" paint brand is the sole reason they were saved from bankruptcy. That Home Depot connection is the only reason they are where they are today.
If they had to compete against SW, BM, PPG, etc. with their own stores with the products they have, they wouldn't stand a chance of survival.

Their like the rich kid with the shiny new car every year who is the starting quarterback with straight A's even though he is stupid and worthless as a football player. Nothing sets Behr up for more criticism then that aspect alone.


----------



## PACman

daArch said:


> That's great to hear, so we all can expect no serious repercussions for disrespectful posts, trolling, stalking, phone threats, and multiple aliases .
> 
> YAHOO, just like the old usenet days. This is gonna be fun once again :thumbsup:
> 
> can't wait to we have dozens of the split personalities on PT.


Damn, How come I never get any phone threats? I love phone threats!


----------



## daArch

PACman said:


> Damn, How come I never get any phone threats? I love phone threats!


just put down you're contact info here.

Better yet, lets' see some pix of your family and pretty soon you'll have your own counterfeit webpage and youtube vid. :thumbup:


----------



## PACman

daArch said:


> just put down you're contact info here.
> 
> Better yet, lets' see some pix of your family and pretty soon you'll have your own counterfeit webpage and youtube vid. :thumbup:


I bet if I posted my favorite hockey team on here I'd get some phone threats.


----------



## RH

daArch said:


> That's great to hear, so we all can expect no serious repercussions for disrespectful posts, trolling, stalking, phone threats, and multiple aliases .
> 
> YAHOO, just like the old usenet days. This is gonna be fun once again :thumbsup:
> 
> can't wait to we have dozens of the split personalities on PT.


Wait?


----------



## PaintersUnite

RH said:


> Just a reminder for everyone - so things don't start to spin out of control.
> _Forum Posting Rules:
> 
> Users shall treat each other with respect at all times on PaintTalk.com. Name calling, personal attacks, or other inappropriate behavior will not be allowed and may cause your account to be banned._





DrakeB said:


> Aside from a *few bad apples* spoiling it, this one actually wasn't a terrible thread.


RH, sorry if I let Drake get to me. I found his *"few bad apples" *comment offensive. Whether it was directed to anyone specifically or not, it shows disrespect on his part for PT members.

BTW - you and Gough are doing a great job as the new Mod team! :thumbsup:


----------



## daArch

I have NO idea why this image just came to mind. 











except that it seems very easy for blindfolded kids to pin the tail on the donkey

. 



.



.



.

maybe 'cause they ain't threatened with bogus lawsuits


----------



## chrisn

PaintersUnite said:


> RH, sorry if I let Drake get to me. I found his *"few bad apples" *comment offensive. Whether it was directed to anyone specifically or not, it shows disrespect on his part for PT members.
> 
> BTW - you and Gough are doing a great job as the new Mod team! :thumbsup:


 
well then, just take your ball and go on home


sucking up to the mods will not help( I hope)


----------



## chrisn

This madness just needs to end



please


----------



## daArch

chrisn said:


> This madness just needs to end
> 
> 
> 
> please


PERMANENTLY !!!!

NO ONE ELSE would be able to get away with this crap


----------



## PACman

Damn. I wish I would be called a "bad apple". Usually it's "f**king A**hole!" or the like. I don't think I could handle being called a bad apple that's just to much to deal with.


----------



## PaintersUnite

PACman said:


> Damn. I wish I would be called a "bad apple". Usually it's "f**king A**hole!" or the like. I don't think I could handle being called a bad apple that's just to much to deal with.


For the record, PACman, you are one of my favorites here on PT. 

As far as a few, I will use my ignore feature for them, as a certain word comes to mind:* Cyberbullies*


----------



## Admin

All y'all knock it off. I am too tired for this nonsense today.


----------



## PACman

PaintersUnite said:


> For the record, PACman, you are one of my favorites here on PT.
> 
> As far as a few, I will use my ignore feature for them, as a certain word comes to mind:* Cyberbullies*


I feel honored! I look forward to reading your posts as well. See now it isn't that hard for us to all get along now is it?


----------



## DrakeB

I used to be a favorite.


----------



## PACman

DrakeB said:


> I used to be a favorite.


Keep working on it. Keep a positive attitude!

And don't forget to smile when you respond to a post.

See! Warm fuzzies for EVERYONE!


----------



## DrakeB

PACman said:


> Keep working on it. Keep a positive attitude!
> 
> And don't forget to smile when you respond to a post.
> 
> See! Warm fuzzies for EVERYONE!


Sounds like good advice! After all, even a snake can look harmless if it smiles, right?


----------



## PACman

DrakeB said:


> Sounds like good advice! After all, even a snake can look harmless if it smiles, right?


Ever notice that pitbulls always seem to be smiling? Rottweilers do it too.


----------



## Wolfgang

I would suggest you all heed Cricket's advice. DO NOT pi55 off the Mama Bear....that would be my advice.


----------



## Seth The Painter

Drake your my favorite here even though you probably hate me. I don't care it's all good. PACman your the funniest bro your like the paint police.


----------



## Seth The Painter

Behr still sucks though. Lmfao


----------



## chrisn

Seth The Painter said:


> Behr still sucks though. Lmfao


DO NOT pi55 off the Mama Bear....

better watch out:notworthy:


----------



## Seth The Painter

That pissed someone off if I say behr sucks ? Smh this place is starting to turn me off now. Like a bunch of females.


----------



## Seth The Painter

I don't need to watch out I don't run my life like that.


----------



## CApainter

Seth The Painter said:


> That pissed someone off if I say behr sucks ? Smh this place is starting to turn me off now. Like a bunch of females.



I think the warning was in reference to etiquette and not subject matter pros or cons. No one here is denying anyone's opinions. It's only when debates on materials, business, or politics turn into personal insults because of differences in opinion, that the mods and administrators get involved. And rightfully so. Especially since we are all volunteer participants with no vested interest in this site, other than the personal time we want to spend.


----------



## DrakeB

I wanted to be the funny one =\


----------



## PACman

Hey lets not turn this into a Pokémon gamers site! I bet D'arch was in on that bust!


----------



## PACman

A true professional should be able to get satisfactory results regardless of what paint is used, shouldn't they? Seriously, I myself am kind of nitpicky about paint quality issues but if someone can get a job done well and get a check using a paint you don't particularly like what's the big deal? Kudos to him as far as I'm concerned. Do you think when I worked as an aircraft mechanic I got to pick and choose which airplanes I got to work on? Nope, I had to work on the job I was given, and do it to the best of my abilities. Same with paint brands sometimes. You don't always get to pick what you want to use, and you have to use what the customer wants. If you do the job well and get paid, good on you.


----------



## Seth The Painter

CApainter said:


> I think the warning was in reference to etiquette and not subject matter pros or cons. No one here is denying anyone's opinions. It's only when debates on materials, business, or politics turn into personal insults because of differences in opinion, that the mods and administrators get involved. And rightfully so. Especially since we are all volunteer participants with no vested interest in this site, other than the personal time we want to spend.


I completely understand. However, I was playing around. I can't help it if someone that uses behr is offended. It's a doggy dogs world ca. # the truthhurts.


----------



## daArch

PACman said:


> Hey lets not turn this into a Pokémon gamers site! I bet D'arch was in on that bust!


You lost me on that one. What's a Pokemon?


----------



## PACman

daArch said:


> You lost me on that one. What's a Pokemon?


There was a couple of guys arrested in Boston over the weekend at a Pokémon gamers convention. They had made threats against some fellow posters on a gaming site and had driven 25 hours from Iowa of all places. They had posted that they were going to kill some people that they claimed had cheated and posted some nasty comments about them. They posted pictures of themselves on Facebook with an AK-47 and a shotgun, saying they where coming for the people who posted negative comments about them. I figured you were in on the bust.


----------



## PACman

Oh, Pokémon is an old Japanese anime series that was adopted as a card game 20-25 years ago. It has become a popular online game for people that can't deal with reality. Although I can't say I blame them for that.


----------



## CApainter

I blame social media for enabling the obsessive competition that has permeated every facet of our lives. From driving to and from work, to being first in line at the consumer feed trough known as Walmart.

Angry birds, Trivia, Warcraft. The list goes on and on. And Apple continues to grow because people don't mind being handcuffed to that little endorphin and cortisol producing device that stimulates one way or the other, whether they're winning or losing at one of these stupid "games".


----------



## daArch

CApainter said:


> I blame social media for enabling the obsessive competition that has permeated every facet of our lives. From driving to and from work, to being first in line at the consumer feed trough known as Walmart.
> 
> Angry birds, Trivia, Warcraft. The list goes on and on. And Apple continues to grow because people don't mind being handcuffed to that little endorphin and cortisol producing device that stimulates one way or the other, whether they're winning or losing at one of these stupid "games".



you mean EVERYONE doesn't get a trophy for participating 


Interesting study released recently about violence games contributing to violent behavior. They say it is a risk factor along with other factors. I take that to mean, it can contribute to those already without the skills to control themselves, but won't "turn" a peaceful well adjusted person into a psycho mass murderer.

But I think we all knew that before.


----------



## daArch

PACman said:


> There was a couple of guys arrested in Boston over the weekend at a Pokémon gamers convention. They had made threats against some fellow posters on a gaming site and had driven 25 hours from Iowa of all places. They had posted that they were going to kill some people that they claimed had cheated and posted some nasty comments about them. They posted pictures of themselves on Facebook with an AK-47 and a shotgun, saying they where coming for the people who posted negative comments about them. I figured you were in on the bust.


Yes yes, I do watch the news, I was just wondering how I would be linked to the bust. THAT connection went right over my head. 

I think son Jake collected the Pokemon cards for a minute or two back a few decades ago, but I am so based in a double fantasy world, I know more about the Pokemon spoof - Enchanted Warlords of Ka'a as seen on TBBT :thumbup:


----------



## DrakeB

CApainter said:


> I blame social media for enabling the obsessive competition that has permeated every facet of our lives. From driving to and from work, to being first in line at the consumer feed trough known as Walmart.
> 
> Angry birds, Trivia, Warcraft. The list goes on and on. And Apple continues to grow because people don't mind being handcuffed to that little endorphin and cortisol producing device that stimulates one way or the other, whether they're winning or losing at one of these stupid "games".


Ouch. That's pretty harsh criticism of one of my fields of work.

I think you've got the blame pegged in the wrong place. Games aren't to blame for our problems any more than movies or books have ever been. You can argue that they're all dangerous mediums, but singling one out above the rest is short sighted in my opinion. There's something to be said against the duplicitous engineers of phone games designed to addict and make more and more and more money, but that's truly no different than cheap romance novels, soap operas on TV, and endless sequels and reboots we see on the big screen. 

Did you know video games were featured for the first time in the museum of modern art just within the last couple of years? Like any industry, there are some people/groups that go for mass production and profit (just like books, music, painting, TV, sculpture, etc.) but that doesn't take away from the rest of the people who are creating art because they want to create art. Blaming the medium is a reactionary knee-jerk, just like people who blamed music for the degradation of society in many of your parents' times. The truth of the matter is, society is sick- and that requires fixing society, not ridding the world of video games.

Sure, some games do stimulate competitive impulses within us- that much is clear- and yet studies have proven time and again that it has no impact outside of the games, and frequently point to that fact that they more likely reduce stress and relieve the need for those kind of impulses outside the game for many people. I'd be happy to provide a citation if you'd like.

But looking beyond the competitive, I wish the detractors of the medium could see some of the amazing stuff that has been produced. Games that help people understand depression, deal with loss, understand ourselves, feel empathy for people with have nothing in common with- and that's saying nothing of some of the incredibly talented stories that have been told. Sure, some games are nothing but meaningless time wasters- just like other forms of art- but one day people will look back on games as an art as serious as any other. It makes me sad that people still look down on them and blame them.


----------



## CApainter

Drake,

My concern is with a generation of impressionable minds that have been influenced by social media and easy access to the games they provide. As if life doesn't have enough distractions. 

As an adult, I love video gammes on Xbox. And I do get pretty emotional. But the box is not attached to me every where I go.


----------



## DrakeB

Is that, then, the failings of the parents being reflected in the next generation, or is it the social media and games themselves to blame? I prefer to think it's the former in many cases, though I obviously have reason to be biased on multiple fronts.


----------



## PACman

DrakeB said:


> Is that, then, the failings of the parents being reflected in the next generation, or is it the social media and games themselves to blame? I prefer to think it's the former in many cases, though I obviously have reason to be biased on multiple fronts.


I was going to blame Pikachu!


----------



## daArch

DrakeB said:


> Is that, then, the failings of the parents being reflected in the next generation, or is it the social media and games themselves to blame? I prefer to think it's the former in many cases, though I obviously have reason to be biased on multiple fronts.


just an observation:

before the electronic toy age, kids were not totally absorbed by them. There was more REAL interaction between kids .

When I was a young teen, we would get together and make gas filled bottle bombs and set M-80's on cigarette fuses out on the lake, or jamb match heads into a CO2 cartridge and make a neat rocket, or shoot rats down at the dump, or throw apples at passing cars, and all sorts of stuff kids don't get together with other kids to do. It's all now a virtual world of interacting role playing .

Kids today, sheeesh


----------



## DrakeB

Alternatively, I grew up in the age of electronics by most people's reckoning, and I grew up obsessed with reading and all the kinds of stuff you mention in your post. Mayhaps I'm an outlier (well, I think we all know I'm at least a bit _odd_ to put it nicely), but I was fortunate enough to have parents who read to me frequently- both classic literature and modern stuff, a dad that took me hunting and fishing, etc. I also had access to video games, and while I spent a fair amount of time playing (and eventually, making part of a career out of it), I don't feel it detracted from the other things.

So, to focus the question even more, is it because parents are too busy or too uncaring to teach their children and instead take the easy route and shove the video games and phones in their hands to entertain themselves, or is it because of the very existence of the medium that we have such problems? With the amount of couples that both work (rather than have a stay at home parent) these days thanks to tighter budgets, a rougher economy, and the shaming of stay-at-home wives, I'm surprised things aren't worse than they are already. Personally, that's where I think the problem lies.


----------



## Wildbill7145

Awesome. This thread made 19 pages. I knew we could do it. The derailure of this thread may have had the flight path of a butterfly, but we did indeed make it.


----------



## CApainter

DrakeB said:


> Is that, then, the failings of the parents being reflected in the next generation, or is it the social media and games themselves to blame? I prefer to think it's the former in many cases, though I obviously have reason to be biased on multiple fronts.


It has nothing to do with the parents but everything to do with stimulation and the easy access to it. After all, we are just a little more biologically sophisticated then rats. And like rats, it doesn't take much to crave stimuli.

People just don't have to put out the effort it used to take to stimulate themselves. And whether the urge is sexual, competitive, assertive, humorous, or angry in nature, a device is within inches to fulfill that pleasure. And just like the lab rats, we go back for more and more. Now granted, not everyone sucumbs to the slavery of everything internet. But enough people do to generate concern for the direction our society is taking.

As I mentioned sometime back, too many people are looking for that "win" for the day, so they can sleep with peace. It'd be nice if they could be distracted by something else, like nature perhaps.


----------



## DrakeB

I think I fundamentally disagree with you on this one. There may be some correlation, but in my humble opinion I don't believe it's the causation. Very little way to prove who's right in a fairly philosophical discussion, though, so I guess the best I can do is leave it at that.


----------



## CApainter

Drake,

I do think technology and social media are important. And I do agree that many of the programmers creating these virtual worlds are truely artists, along with the writers, designers, and creators they collaborate with. I only have problems with some of these games that have gone viral. but for the record, I'm one of those people that never did lik Mario Brothers. I was more of an Intellivision guy.

What I do like is the picture, movie, and music editing software. I could spen d hours on that stuff when I'm not playing XBox. Which I haven't played for over a year ever since I completed MW Ghost OPS. Wasn't their best game.


----------



## CApainter

DrakeB said:


> I think I fundamentally disagree with you on this one. There may be some correlation, but in my humble opinion I don't believe it's the causation. Very little way to prove who's right in a fairly philosophical discussion, though, so I guess the best I can do is leave it at that.


I would guess that the majority would be in agreement with you. Afterall, we are all on the internet. So you should relish in the pleasure of being right. 

However, I'm more interested in how I perceive a world that has changed significantly in my fifty five years, then being right. But these discussions need to happen in order to at least question the direction we're headed in. Right now, mass gaming doesn't lend itself to a healthy outcome in my opinion. Maybe that'll change if I ever get the chance to conduct a drone strike in real life.


----------



## Wildbill7145

CApainter said:


> I was more of an Intellivision guy.


I knew you were one of the good ones. My brothers and I won ours by drinking probably 45 gallons of Dr. Pepper each one summer to find the elusive "Laser gun" from Astrosmash on the bottom of the can.

My Dad made it out like the thing was the creation of the devil. He wasn't a video game type fella.


----------



## DrakeB

I guess I view it kind of like pharmaceuticals. Many/most dangerous drugs that are abused today were made for medicinal purposes. The few that weren't were made by malicious people with the intent to make money off of others' addictions. In neither case do I blame the creators (chemists/developers)- in both cases, I blame a society that views dangerous addictions with levity and carelessness. In both cases, many or most view them as lighthearted antics or just disinterest, when in reality both are destroying lives and decaying the fiber of our world.

But maybe we're saying the same thing, after all- it's the designers of the malicious products (like Candy Crush) and the people who enable those addictions that we should be worried about.

Maybe I've just got a dated viewpoint in this regard, but I'm always more inclined to hold people responsible for their actions than any outside influence. I may not believe in The Secret, but I do believe every person holds within themselves the power of self-control. My rather fierce temper is one of my least favorite aspects of myself for the very same reason- anger should be my choice, not a weakness. It's sad that we live in a world where self-control is optional.


----------



## Wildbill7145

How things can change. We played our intellivision and didn't win anything at the end of the day.

Now kids can go to tournaments and win millions of dollars.

I know lots of guys who played Minecraft (or something like that), then moved over to online poker and are now winning major WSOP live events.


----------



## PACman

So does Behr exterior cover or not?


----------



## DrakeB

CApainter said:


> I would guess that the majority would be in agreement with you. Afterall, we are all on the internet. So you should relish in the pleasure of being right.


I do my damndest not to confuse "majority" with "right." Given my own perceptions on society, I'm more inclined to look on majority opinion as dubious as best.


----------



## Wildbill7145

DrakeB said:


> PT word of the day: derailure.


You liked derailure eh? It just kind of flowed naturally when I typed it.


----------



## CApainter

Drake,

In terms of self control, I'm not certain there's much difference today then there was in the past, other than the obsticals of resistance placed in the palms of our hands.

Avoidance used to be a simple way of facilitating self control and restraint. How do we avoid our smart phones and computers?


----------



## DrakeB

CApainter said:


> Drake,
> 
> In terms of self control, I'm not certain there's much difference today then there was in the past, other than the obsticals of resistance placed in the palms of our hands.
> 
> Avoidance used to be a simple way of facilitating self control and restraint. How do we avoid our smart phones and computers?


I've found some true tranquility in powering them all down when I'm trying to do family or girlfriend related activities. It's much easier when Skype isn't bugging me every few seconds, texts aren't coming in, etc.

Although admittedly having few close friends and having set most of my social media accounts to never bother me in most situations helps. Tossing the phone onto the couch and stepping out into the woods helps, too.


----------



## Wildbill7145

One thing that impressed me was when Steve Richards stopped PTing almost all together. I really miss his sense of humour, but he self admitted that the interweb was addictive for him and he did something about it in the interests of being more productive. I myself can sit for hours on end in front of my computer. Sometimes I should just shut it off and walk away. I often wonder what my dogs think when they see me sitting here staring at this screen for hours. 

Years ago, on some long weekends I'd just unplug everything. Phone, cable, everything. It was great. Felt like you'd gone camping or something. I'd get tons of stuff done.

It's insane that for decades we'd all leave for work without a cel and not think about it. Now, you leave the door without your cel and you panic like you just drove away without your pack of smokes. Pretty telling stuff in that last sentence.


----------



## CApainter

I don't have a smart phone, and I'm not active on my facebook account. PT is the only social media I participate in and I like it like that. The conversations are good here.


----------



## SemiproJohn

CApainter said:


> *I don't have a smart phone, and I'm not active on my facebook account*. PT is the only social media I participate in and I like it like that. The conversations are good here.


And I thought dinosaurs were extinct. I now know for a fact that at least 2 still exist. And I'm including myself in that number.


----------



## DrakeB

Hell, I didn't have one until 2 years ago.


----------



## chrisn

*19 doors and counting.*

*20 pages and counting, thank GOD it got off the main topic*


----------



## SemiproJohn

chrisn said:


> *19 doors and counting.*
> 
> *20 pages and counting, thank GOD it got off the main topic*


Thread derailment. It's what's for dinner. It's what we do.


----------



## The Cutting Edge

PACman said:


> So does Behr exterior cover or not?


It covers my 5 in 1 and my boots when I scrape it off the wall to repaint.
I put about 35 outlet covers back on in an office building I painted today.
Every screw was straight vertical. I don't think anyone will ever notice but I smile every time I look at 1 of them.
Thanks Paint Talk. :thumbup:


----------



## ExcelPaintingCo

Wildbill7145 said:


> You liked derailure eh? It just kind of flowed naturally when I typed it.


 Its actually spelled "dérailleur". My son just told me he broke his rear dérailleur on his mountain bike. There's another $100 out the door. It's a French word, I think. 

Who else love biking? We recently got back from a trip to Whistler, BC. Beautiful area in the summer. World class mountain biking. Awesome time. If I could live and work up there, I'd be in heaven. 

I'm sorry for the topic dérailleur.......carry on........


----------



## CApainter

This thread is beginning to meander into the unknown. This is exciting!


----------



## chrisn

The Cutting Edge said:


> It covers my 5 in 1 and my boots when I scrape it off the wall to repaint.
> I put about 35 outlet covers back on in an office building I painted today.
> Every screw was straight vertical. :thumbsup:I don't think anyone will ever notice but I smile every time I look at 1 of them.
> Thanks Paint Talk. :thumbup:


I would.:yes:


----------



## daArch

SemiproJohn said:


> And I thought dinosaurs were extinct. I now know for a fact that at least 2 still exist. And I'm including myself in that number.


Looks like there are more. I don't gots no smaht phone, and I hate FB.

PT is my main outlet for expressing thoughts and exchanging drivel.


----------



## soperfect paint

It looks wonderful.


----------



## daArch

now to get back to the OD (original derailature), an earlier generation of kids were captured by pin ball machines, pool tables, and other socially frowned upon activities.

My parents always wanted me to read more, but objected when MAD magazine, DC and Marvel drew me in for hours on end.

I am sure when kids listened to all the great radio shows, parents were worried.

As society progresses, it invents easier lives for humans, more free time. So it gets filled with whatever is in vogue.

What kid on the frontier had time for leisure ? What kid in colonial America was overweight?

We strive to make life easier for our children, and then complain they are lazy, unmotivated, addictive, and overweight (and with a whole new set of allergies never heard of 100 years ago)


----------



## PACman

daArch said:


> now to get back to the OD (original derailature), an earlier generation of kids were captured by pin ball machines, pool tables, and other socially frowned upon activities.
> 
> My parents always wanted me to read more, but objected when MAD magazine, DC and Marvel drew me in for hours on end.
> 
> I am sure when kids listened to all the great radio shows, parents were worried.
> 
> As society progresses, it invents easier lives for humans, more free time. So it gets filled with whatever is in vogue.
> 
> What kid on the frontier had time for leisure ? What kid in colonial America was overweight?
> 
> We strive to make life easier for our children, and then complain they are lazy, unmotivated, addictive, and overweight (and with a whole new set of allergies never heard of 100 years ago)




The allergy to work being the biggest problem.


----------



## PACman

Ok back to the OP's comment- Does anyone else think Paul McCartney always looks like he's being goosed! WHAAAHOOO!


----------



## DrakeB

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> Its actually spelled "dérailleur". My son just told me he broke his rear dérailleur on his mountain bike. There's another $100 out the door. It's a French word, I think.
> 
> Who else love biking? We recently got back from a trip to Whistler, BC. Beautiful area in the summer. World class mountain biking. Awesome time. If I could live and work up there, I'd be in heaven.
> 
> I'm sorry for the topic dérailleur.......carry on........


I used to be a big mountain biker (derailer)- then I moved to Iowa.



Actually, I bought a new bike at the beginning of this summer... shortly before I injured my foot. Now it hurts so bad to ride that I haven't been able to enjoy it. Bummer timing for an expensive toy.


----------



## stelzerpaintinginc.

Now, if there are no objections, I think it's time to talk about gravy. It's one of my 4 basic food groups. Sausage gravy. Bacon gravy. It's one of life's great wonders how something as bland as butter & flour could turn into something so heavenly. 

When we go out to morning breakfast, I judge a restaurant based on whether they make good gravy or not. I can forgive poor customer service, dirty bathrooms, and Flo forgetting to top my coffee off, so long as she's brought my my gravy and something to dunk it in. 

I wish they sold gravy in buckets. I'd have fivers stacked ceiling high in my shop, even if it meant having to throw some paint out to make room. 

Can YOU make good gravy? Any tips for folks out there who struggle to create good gravy? Go.


----------



## RH

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> Now, if there are no objections, I think it's time to talk about gravy. It's one of my 4 basic food groups. Sausage gravy. Bacon gravy. It's one of life's great wonders how something as bland as butter & flour could turn into something so heavenly.
> 
> When we go out to morning breakfast, I judge a restaurant based on whether they make good gravy or not. I can forgive poor customer service, dirty bathrooms, and Flo forgetting to top my coffee off, so long as she's brought my my gravy and something to dunk it in.
> 
> I wish they sold gravy in buckets. I'd have fivers stacked ceiling high in my shop, even if it meant having to throw some paint out to make room.
> 
> Can YOU make good gravy? Any tips for folks out there who struggle to create good gravy? Go.


Ever been to one of the Biscuits restaurants (3 in Portland)? I'm not a gravy guy but the rest of their breakfast items are killer, so with a name like that...


----------



## stelzerpaintinginc.

RH said:


> Ever been to one of the Biscuits restaurants? I'm not a gravy guy but the rest of their breakfast items are killer, so with a name like that...



No, but I'll have to check it out. Thanks for the tip. Can't believe you're not a gravy guy. Always knew there was something a little off about ya.


----------



## Wildbill7145

I will admit to one time during my bachelor days buying a can of mushroom gravy. Absolutely horrible. I should have just mixed mud, salt and water.

I am also disappointed that RH isn't a gravy guy. Who knew?


----------



## DrakeB

Family reunion gravy. Sorry, nothing will ever top it and the recipe is top secret.


----------



## Stretch67

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> Its actually spelled "dérailleur". My son just told me he broke his rear dérailleur on his mountain bike. There's another $100 out the door. It's a French word, I think.
> 
> Who else love biking? We recently got back from a trip to Whistler, BC. Beautiful area in the summer. World class mountain biking. Awesome time. If I could live and work up there, I'd be in heaven.
> 
> I'm sorry for the topic dérailleur.......carry on........


This thread just won't die. Traffic is slow in the industrial forum..... So, how do u convince yourself to take vacation during the busy season? There r so many places we would like to go but i just cant bring myself to do it. The opportunity cost practically makes me hurl.


----------



## DrakeB

Wildbill7145 said:


> I will admit to one time during my bachelor days buying a can of mushroom gravy. Absolutely horrible. I should have just mixed mud, salt and water.
> 
> I am also disappointed that RH isn't a gravy guy. Who knew?


Mushroom gravy is nature's vomit.


----------



## Jmayspaint

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> Now, if there are no objections, I think it's time to talk about gravy. It's one of my 4 basic food groups. Sausage gravy. Bacon gravy. It's one of life's great wonders how something as bland as butter & flour could turn into something so heavenly.
> 
> When we go out to morning breakfast, I judge a restaurant based on whether they make good gravy or not. I can forgive poor customer service, dirty bathrooms, and Flo forgetting to top my coffee off, so long as she's brought my my gravy and something to dunk it in.
> 
> I wish they sold gravy in buckets. I'd have fivers stacked ceiling high in my shop, even if it meant having to throw some paint out to make room.
> 
> Can YOU make good gravy? Any tips for folks out there who struggle to create good gravy? Go.




I love me some gravy. I was spoiled as a child on my dads homemade sausage gravy. Luckily, I picked up how to make it myself. 

One of the main tricks to good gravy is properly browning the flour. My dad always said it should brown to the color of a brown paper bag, though I like to go just a bit darker. Not brown enough, and the gravy tastes like flour. Browned too much, you risk scorching. Real butter in the flour mix browns and tastes better IMO. 

Another trick is that once the milk goes in, do not stop stirring. For the smoothest gravy continue to gently stir the milk mixture till its done. Letting it set on the heat can cause clumps. My dad used a can of condensed milk with equal parts water and a little whole milk added. I usually just use whole milk. 

The procedure is basically the same for sausage or bacon gravy. Getting the pork flavor incorporated into the flour mixture is the first step. Occasionally, I like to make this kind of gravy with country ham. It gives it an extra salty zing. 

With country ham though, the real deal is red eye gravy. After cooking the ham simply pour in a couple cups of coffee and stir well. Continue stirring and bring to a boil. You'll know it's done when it doesn't smell like coffee anymore. It makes an awesome thin, salty gravy that's great for dipping biscuits in. 

Thanks PT for giving me something to do while I wait on an oil change


----------



## Wildbill7145

Homer Simpson to Dr. Hibbert:

"_You_ doctors have been _telling_ us to _drink eight glasses of gravy a day_!"

You guys are scaring me. I've never heard of sausage or bacon gravy in my entire life. God that sounds good.


----------



## PACman

DrakeB said:


> Mushroom gravy is nature's vomit.


It's made from fungi what do you expect? And fungi that has been rejected for all other potential uses at that. Kind of like the behr of the gravies.


----------



## PACman

Wildbill7145 said:


> Homer Simpson to Dr. Hibbert:
> 
> "_You_ doctors have been _telling_ us to _drink eight glasses of gravy a day_!"
> 
> You guys are scaring me. I've never heard of sausage or bacon gravy in my entire life. God that sounds good.


You've never heard of sausage gravy? Where have you been, Canada or something? Good sausage gravy is like the nectar of the gods. You could put it on horse crap and make it edible.


----------



## Wildbill7145

Just googled this. I'm seriously a little disappointed that I'm more than half way through my life and I have been denied this the whole time.

What the hell is wrong with us here in Canada? Or maybe it's just me.


----------



## stelzerpaintinginc.

DrakeB said:


> Family reunion gravy. Sorry, nothing will ever top it and the recipe is top secret.



Understood. I wouldn't even trust my recipe in my safe deposit box. It's all right here, (pointing to noggin).


----------



## stelzerpaintinginc.

Jmayspaint said:


> I love me some gravy. I was spoiled as a child on my dads homemade sausage gravy. Luckily, I picked up how to make it myself.
> 
> One of the main tricks to good gravy is properly browning the flour. My dad always said it should brown to the color of a brown paper bag, though I like to go just a bit darker. Not brown enough, and the gravy tastes like flour. Browned too much, you risk scorching. Real butter in the flour mix browns and tastes better IMO.
> 
> Another trick is that once the milk goes in, do not stop stirring. For the smoothest gravy continue to gently stir the milk mixture till its done. Letting it set on the heat can cause clumps. My dad used a can of condensed milk with equal parts water and a little whole milk added. I usually just use whole milk.
> 
> The procedure is basically the same for sausage or bacon gravy. Getting the pork flavor incorporated into the flour mixture is the first step. Occasionally, I like to make this kind of gravy with country ham. It gives it an extra salty zing.
> 
> With country ham though, the real deal is red eye gravy. After cooking the ham simply pour in a couple cups of coffee and stir well. Continue stirring and bring to a boil. You'll know it's done when it doesn't smell like coffee anymore. It makes an awesome thin, salty gravy that's great for dipping biscuits in.
> 
> Thanks PT for giving me something to do while I wait on an oil change



Ya. Good form. I learned from my Ma and kinda tweaked it over the years. I'll make my roux, (that's butter & flour, Mr. Wildbill), in the same pan I used to cook the sausage or bacon. Nice low heat, always stirring, whole milk added about 1/2 cup at a time, wait til it starts to thicken, then add more milk. Once it comes to a boil, it's about as thick as it's gonna get. Dump in trough or mount feedbag, then get my grub on. Chicken Bullion is good for flavor, but can get too salty real quick if you're making bacon gravy. If I'm feeling especially randy, I'll finely chop some chives to throw in at the last minute. 

I feel like going home and have an all-out gravy fiesta now.


----------



## stelzerpaintinginc.

bryceraisanen said:


> This thread just won't die. Traffic is slow in the industrial forum..... So, how do u convince yourself to take vacation during the busy season? There r so many places we would like to go but i just cant bring myself to do it. The opportunity cost practically makes me hurl.



All due respect Bryce, but what the hell does that have to do with gravy? Geesh. Stay on topic for cryin out loud.


----------



## CApainter

I'm not one to take vacations. But if I were to, I'd like to go to Australia. My daughter is enamored with everything Australian.


----------



## Wildbill7145

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> All due respect Bryce, but what the hell does that have to do with gravy? Geesh. Stay on topic for cryin out loud.


It would be interesting to see a chronological list of the various topics discussed in this thread.

Just for documentation purposes of course.


----------



## ExcelPaintingCo

bryceraisanen said:


> This thread just won't die. Traffic is slow in the industrial forum..... So, how do u convince yourself to take vacation during the busy season? There r so many places we would like to go but i just cant bring myself to do it. The opportunity cost practically makes me hurl.


 As my life (marriage, children), and business have evolved, I find myself much more motivated to travel and enjoy experiences with he family. Summer vacations have been part of that evolution. It's easy when you trust your managers and crew to work without you. Increased travel opportunity is a nice benefit of being out of the bucket.


----------



## CApainter

Wildbill7145 said:


> It would be interesting to see a chronological list of the various topics discussed in this thread.
> 
> Just for documentation purposes of course.


The title reminds me of a 70's Chinese martial arts movie. "Fists Through Nineteen Doors and Counting" Starring Ben Gazzera and Bruce Lee.


----------



## ExcelPaintingCo

DrakeB said:


> I used to be a big mountain biker (derailer)- then I moved to Iowa. Actually, I bought a new bike at the beginning of this summer... shortly before I injured my foot. Now it hurts so bad to ride that I haven't been able to enjoy it. Bummer timing for an expensive toy.


 Ouch. Sorry to hear about the foot injury. Was that in a biking accident? I've always worried about that.


----------



## DrakeB

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> Ya. Good form. I learned from my Ma and kinda tweaked it over the years. I'll make my roux, (that's butter & flour, Mr. Wildbill), in the same pan I used to cook the sausage or bacon.


This is the crux of it right here- makes the best possible gravy. Especially if you've got a good quality sausage (where I grew up, we had a local sausage place that sold out of a few of the stores in the Carolinas that was _amazing_), you get a couple little chunks of sausage in there and alllll of the flavor. Hell yah.

Down south "sausage gravy" as the Yankees think of it isn't a real thing- we still use sausage as a base sometimes, but don't sprinkle it through and through with sausage- and southern gravy is usually a darker color as well.


----------



## DrakeB

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> Ouch. Sorry to hear about the foot injury. Was that in a biking accident? I've always worried about that.


Nope, was a combination of prednisone induced weakness (was taking it for something else) and a trip and fall within my own house. Not particularly dramatic or interesting, but having long term results nonetheless. Haven't made it to the doctor yet, which is also probably part of the problem. I had a nearly 15 year streak going where I hadn't been to the doctor at all that I had to break last year, if that gives you an idea how often I make it in.

Never have managed to hurt myself biking badly. Pulled the wrong brake hurtling down a mountain at 30+ mph one time and threw myself over the handle bars- did a lot of bouncing and skidding, but aside from some bruises and minor cuts I (and my bike) were fine, luckily enough.


----------



## PACman

DrakeB said:


> This is the crux of it right here- makes the best possible gravy. Especially if you've got a good quality sausage (where I grew up, we had a local sausage place that sold out of a few of the stores in the Carolinas that was _amazing_), you get a couple little chunks of sausage in there and alllll of the flavor. Hell yah.
> 
> Down south "sausage gravy" as the Yankees think of it isn't a real thing- we still use sausage as a base sometimes, but don't sprinkle it through and through with sausage- and southern gravy is usually a darker color as well.


Some of the best sausage in the world comes from right there in Iowa. Even the sausage & egg Mcmuffins are better the anywhere else in the country. You might have to get down a little closer to Des Moines. Where the pig farms are.


----------



## PACman

I used to make chicken gravy from fried chicken pan drippings about 6 times a day in high school. I worked at a family owned restaurant that was famous for their fried chicken and chicken gravy. I was the go to gravy maker for about 5 years.

Evil Knievel was a regular and so was an old Cleveland Browns quarterback named Brian Sipe if anyone remembers him.


----------



## stelzerpaintinginc.

CApainter said:


> I'm not one to take vacations. But if I were to, I'd like to go to Australia. My daughter is enamored with everything Australian.



I'd go if I could book tickets on a gravy boat.


----------



## Wildbill7145

PACman said:


> Even the sausage & egg Mcmuffins are better the anywhere else in the country.


That's interesting. Probably got by quality control somehow.


----------



## daArch

I like one kind of gravy, but this is show is family rated.


----------



## daArch

Let me amend that, but first a clarification

Is Nestle's Tollhouse morsels melted in butter considered a gravy ?


----------



## CApainter

daArch said:


> I like one kind of gravy, but this is show is family rated.


----------



## PACman

Wildbill7145 said:


> That's interesting. Probably got by quality control somehow.


Fresh un-frozen local sausage would be my guess.


----------



## PACman

daArch said:


> Let me amend that, but first a clarification
> 
> Is Nestle's Tollhouse morsels melted in butter considered a gravy ?


Of course!


----------



## slinger58

I think those who refuse to share their gravy recipes (Troy & Drake), should be voted off the island. 

And if memory serves, gravy recipe sharing was covered in the user agreement when yall signed up on PT. 

See, it's a rule so you fellas give it up!


----------



## DrakeB

slinger58 said:


> I think those who refuse to share their gravy recipes (Troy & Drake), should be voted off the island.
> 
> And if memory serves, gravy recipe sharing was covered in the user agreement when yall signed up on PT.
> 
> See, it's a rule so you fellas give it up!


You'll have to beat it out of me.


----------



## slinger58

DrakeB said:


> You'll have to beat it out of me.


 Where you located, Drake?. Lol


----------



## The Cutting Edge

My wife makes biscuits n chocolate gravy once in a while. Its pretty good. We put a little chili powder in ours. Gives a little kick.


----------



## DrakeB

slinger58 said:


> Where you located, Drake?. Lol


Haven't you read my user title? I can't tell you my location, I'm too popular with stalkers. I don't want too many people showing up at my door with boxes of chocolate.


----------



## RH

Okay, let's be careful with all this talk bout' chocolate gravy and sausages - don't want to have to give anyone a vaca.


----------



## PACman

This thread is beginning to disturb me a little bit.


----------



## Seth The Painter

Basically pour the gravy into the bowl. And add some behr. Test it with the dog. If my dog eats it. Roll it on the wall. Behr covers like a dream mixed with gravy.


----------



## daArch

PACman said:


> Of course!


Well then, I love warm chocolate gravy on very cold vanilla ice cream, but the proportions of buttah to morsels have to be perfect so it skins over like a dove bar


----------



## PaintersUnite

Someone should start a thread, "Nonsense Posts of The Day" and make it a sticky. :jester:


----------



## Gough

Now, RH, now?


----------



## CApainter

I never had a colonoscopy. At what age is the best to go for the first time?


----------



## slinger58

CApainter said:


> I never had a colonoscopy. At what age is the best to go for the first time?


50. Unless you consume excessive amounts of gravy.


----------



## PaintersUnite

CApainter said:


> I never had a colonoscopy. At what age is the best to go for the first time?


Age 50

Signs of colon cancer are;


Blood in the stool
weight loss
pain in the lower abdomen
abnormal bowel movements
and others


----------



## Oden

bryceraisanen said:


> This thread just won't die. Traffic is slow in the industrial forum..... So, how do u convince yourself to take vacation during the busy season? There r so many places we would like to go but i just cant bring myself to do it. The opportunity cost practically makes me hurl.


You only go around once and you'll never be younger than you are today
What's the sense? You know what is the money for? The extra $ that is the more than you need to live.
And in ur case? Jeez. Just delegate whatever it is for a week or so, run it from the phone. They'll cover you.


----------



## Oden

I was ignoring this thread
And I almost missed out
Sausage gravy recipes. From real southerners. Kool.


----------



## stelzerpaintinginc.

slinger58 said:


> I think those who refuse to share their gravy recipes (Troy & Drake), should be voted off the island.
> 
> And if memory serves, gravy recipe sharing was covered in the user agreement when yall signed up on PT.
> 
> See, it's a rule so you fellas give it up!



Please read post #407 again. I all but poured it over biscuits for ya.


----------



## stelzerpaintinginc.

CApainter said:


> I never had a colonoscopy. At what age is the best to go for the first time?



Great question. I read somewheres if you don't go by the time you're 50, yer innards could splode outwards. How old are you again?


----------



## RH

A colonoscopy is really no big deal - they knock you out for it anyway. The worst part is the stuff they have you drink prior in order to clean you out - ugh!!! 

Having lost a good friend to colon cancer, get yourself checked. It's one of the best things you can do for yourself and family.


----------



## daArch

RH said:


> A colonoscopy is really no big deal - they knock you out for it anyway. The worst part is the stuff they have you drink prior in order to clean you out - ugh!!!
> 
> Having lost a good friend to colon cancer, get yourself checked. It's one of the best things you can do for yourself and family.


REALLY. That is the most vile stuff imaginable. And the result of it is the most RUDEST experience I think I've ever had, and I normally LIKE scatological explosions.


----------



## CApainter

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> Great question. I read somewheres if you don't go by the time you're 50, yer innards could splode outwards. How old are you again?


I'm fifty five. I hope there's a warning before that happens. I want to leave my Lazy Boy in good shape for others to use. I'm considerate like that.


----------



## Gough

RH said:


> A colonoscopy is really no big deal - they knock you out for it anyway. The worst part is the stuff they have you drink prior in order to clean you out - ugh!!!
> 
> Having lost a good friend to colon cancer, get yourself checked. It's one of the best things you can do for yourself and family.


Unless you ask to watch. K has a fascination with some of the strangest things. She has a series of DVD that cover stem to stern...her own.


----------



## stelzerpaintinginc.

CApainter said:


> I'm fifty five. I hope there's a warning before that happens. I want to leave my Lazy Boy in good shape for others to use. I'm considerate like that.



In light of RH's post, I'm not gonna make light of it. Your reply was funny, but forgive me in advance for not thanking it.


----------



## stelzerpaintinginc.

Gough said:


> Unless you ask to watch. K has a fascination with some of the strangest things. She has a series of DVD that cover stem to stern...her own.



Wow. Just wow.


----------



## Gough

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> Wow. Just wow.


I blame her dad. He was a professor at the OU med school....


----------



## stelzerpaintinginc.

Gough said:


> I blame her dad. He was a professor at the OU med school....



Yep. That'll do it.


----------



## RH

Gough said:


> Unless you ask to watch. K has a fascination with some of the strangest things. She has a series of DVD that cover stem to stern...her own.


Knew a guy who got copies made of the photos they give you and sent them to his closest buddies with the caption; "From one asshole to another."


----------



## chrisn

RH said:


> A colonoscopy is really no big deal - they knock you out for it anyway. The worst part is the stuff they have you drink prior in order to clean you out - ugh!!!
> 
> Having lost a good friend to colon cancer, get yourself checked. It's one of the best things you can do for yourself and family.


I go for my second one next Tuesday, oh boy!


----------



## daArch

And obviously, for some GC's, decorinas, and Sparkies, this is a brain scan.


----------



## PACman

Seth The Painter said:


> Basically pour the gravy into the bowl. And add some behr. Test it with the dog. If my dog eats it. Roll it on the wall. Behr covers like a dream mixed with gravy.


Probably has fewer lumps that way. The Behr that is, not the gravy.


----------



## Gough

daArch said:


> And obviously, for some GC's, decorinas, and Sparkies, this is a brain scan.


It's an opportunity for them to see if they're the perfect a$$holes that we say they are.


----------



## DrakeB

Can this thread be in the newsletter please oh please?


----------



## Wildbill7145

DrakeB said:


> Can this thread be in the newsletter please oh please?


There's a link to it on the Facebook page for the entire world to see. Although I guess the entire world can see this thread without being a member of PT anyways.


----------



## SemiproJohn

PACman said:


> You've never heard of sausage gravy? Where have you been, Canada or something? Good sausage gravy is like the nectar of the gods. You could put it on horse crap and make it edible.


In keeping with the spirit of this part of the thread (the best part in my opinion), I had a nice Southern breakfast this morning.

Country fried steak absolutely smothered in sausage gravy.
grits, with eggs over medium, cheese, salt, pepper, butter all mixed together.
biscuits with more butter, then apple butter smeared on top for the win.

Yum, yum!!!


----------



## Wildbill7145

SemiproJohn said:


> In keeping with the spirit of this part of the thread (the best part in my opinion), I had a nice Southern breakfast this morning.
> 
> Country fried steak absolutely smothered in sausage gravy.
> grits, with eggs over medium, cheese, salt, pepper, butter all mixed together.
> biscuits with more butter, then apple butter smeared on top for the win.
> 
> Yum, yum!!!


My wife just brought me a plate with dry toast, tomato slices and chopped cilantro. I'm gonna eat it so I don't get in trouble, but grudgingly so after what you just described. No gravy either.

God that sounds good.


----------



## SemiproJohn

Wildbill7145 said:


> My wife just brought me a plate with dry toast, tomato slices and chopped cilantro. I'm gonna eat it so I don't get in trouble, but grudgingly so after what you just described. No gravy either.
> 
> God that sounds good.


It was good. I'm fortunate to have a local diner that serves huge breakfasts at reasonable prices. And they make really good gravy. The fact that all of their waitresses are friendly and pretty doesn't hurt either.


----------



## daArch

Gough said:


> It's an opportunity for them to see if they're the perfect a$$holes that we say they are.


*IF ? ?*

Many moons ago, my uncle was acting in an unreasonable manner, and I made a comment to our family that he was being a perfect asshole, my brother reminded us that he's never been a perfect ANYthing


----------



## DrakeB

I miss grits so much. People here don't even know what it is. And I'm used to fresh ground.


----------



## SemiproJohn

DrakeB said:


> I miss grits so much. People here don't even know what it is. And I'm used to fresh ground.


Iowans come from corn country. Grits are made from corn. I wonder why the disconnect? Down here, when eating out for breakfast, grits are often one of the three side "options" (grits, home fries or hash browns).


----------



## PACman

chrisn said:


> I go for my second one next Tuesday, oh boy!


Ok. You sound just a liiiiiiitle to happy about that!


----------



## PACman

daArch said:


> And obviously, for some GC's, decorinas, and Sparkies, this is a brain scan.


You forgot SW store employees. And district managers.


----------



## PACman

can I start a new Behr thread so we can stop all the colonoscopy madness? This thread really went to 5hit at that point.


----------



## SemiproJohn

PACman said:


> can I start a new Behr thread so we can stop all the colonoscopy madness? This thread really went to 5hit at that point.


I tried to shift it back into gravy country...:thumbsup:


----------



## DrakeB

SemiproJohn said:


> Iowans come from corn country. Grits are made from corn. I wonder why the disconnect? Down here, when eating out for breakfast, grits are often one of the three side "options" (grits, home fries or hash browns).


It's funny- I work with a fairly multinational crew at the one job (3 Canadians, 1 Frenchman, 3 Brits, a German, a Welshman [I'm the only American]) and they just lump all Americans into one; I've been somewhat amazed moving across the country how many idiosyncrasies (small and large) there are in the different American regions.


----------



## PACman

DrakeB said:


> It's funny- I work with a fairly multinational crew at the one job (3 Canadians, 1 Frenchman, 3 Brits, a German, a Welshman [I'm the only American]) and they just lump all Americans into one; I've been somewhat amazed moving across the country how many idiosyncrasies (small and large) there are in the different American regions.


I dated a girl who grew up in Austin Texas when I lived in Oklahoma. She spoke an entirely different language then I did. When we first started going out I relied on her best friend to translate. It was like she came from a whole other country. 

The people I worked with in Oklahoma called me "city boy". One day I asked one of them why, and he said it was because I was from Ohio. I told him the nearest town to me had a population of 35, and I guess he was right because in Oklahoma that was a metropolis. That shut them up.


----------



## DrakeB

Everyone from Ohio talks like they're city folk, though!


----------



## PACman

Anyway to re-rail the thread here's something interesting for you guys to chew on. I had a sample board of Behr Marquee, P&L Redseal, and California Freshcoat that I brushed out last December. I had forgotten about it until today when I found where I had put it to keep dust off of it while it dried. Inside a file drawer. Oddly, the Marquee was quite noticeably yellow. I put a drop of each paint on each dried sample and guess what? The other two didn't yellow at all! I guess that must be another example of how much gooder marquee is. Again, the sample is right here if anyone cares to stop by and have a look.


----------



## PACman

DrakeB said:


> Everyone from Ohio talks like they're city folk, though!


True. I guess I would sound like a Clevelander to an okie.


----------



## Gough

PACman said:


> can I start a new Behr thread so we can stop all the colonoscopy madness? This thread really went to 5hit at that point.


I dunno, I think that topic drift turned it into a Behr thread that actually had some information. That may make it unique.


----------



## DrakeB

I liked the gravy discussion, can I have it back?


----------



## PACman

DrakeB said:


> I liked the gravy discussion, can I have it back?


I'm sorry people! Colonoscopies and gravy should NEVER be discussed in the same thread! It just isn't right. 

Now back to the marquee that paints, primes, seals, AND turns to Navajo white by itself.

Maybe in a couple of years it will turn blue too.


----------



## DrakeB

Speaking of things that don't go together, my gf was watching that awful "My Strange Addiction" show and one of them was addicted to coffee enemas.


----------



## chrisn

Wildbill7145 said:


> My wife just brought me a plate with dry toast, tomato slices and chopped cilantro. I'm gonna eat it so I don't get in trouble, but grudgingly so after what you just described. No gravy either.
> 
> God that sounds good.


you actually eat that stuff


----------



## Wildbill7145

chrisn said:


> you actually eat that stuff


So I don't get in the trouble.

I'm still learning all this married guy stuff.


----------



## daArch

chrisn said:


> you actually eat that stuff


You sound like a neighbor, Thinks cilatro is garbage weed. He acts like he's some kind of highfalutin snooty gor-met. I LIKE cilantro, especially in salsa.

JEEEESH, we alls gots different tastes, that's why this is the land of the free


----------



## daArch

PACman said:


> I'm sorry people! Colonoscopies and gravy should NEVER be discussed in the same thread! It just isn't right.
> 
> Now back to the marquee that paints, primes, seals, AND turns to Navajo white by itself.
> 
> Maybe in a couple of years it will turn blue too.


BUT, Behr and colons SHOULD be linked together, 'cause it's an age old question. Which came first, the colon or the behr ??


----------



## Damon T

Ok back on track. Sort of. So I've been seeing tons of Behr Marquee interior paint ads claiming one coat coverage. What's up with that?! Showing deep colors etc. say it ain't so Joe!


----------



## chrisn

daArch said:


> You sound like a neighbor, Thinks cilatro is garbage weed. He acts like he's some kind of highfalutin snooty gor-met. I LIKE cilantro, especially in salsa.
> 
> JEEEESH, we alls gots different tastes, that's why this is the land of the free


I hate the stuff, right up there with okra in my book.


----------



## chrisn

Damon T said:


> Ok back on track. Sort of. So I've been seeing tons of Behr Marquee interior paint ads claiming one coat coverage. What's up with that?! Showing deep colors etc. say it ain't so Joe!


and you are surprised?


----------



## Gough

chrisn said:


> I hate the stuff, right up there with okra in my book.


Sorry, Chris. I normally have the utmost respect for you opinions, but you're wrong about cilantro. It's like nectar of the gods. Our current favorite use for it is cilantro pesto. On toast (with or without goat cheese), in soups, on sandwiches...thanks a lot, it's 5AM here and all this talk about cilantro has made me hungry.

OTOH, it's not really your fault that you don't like Cilantro blame your parents.

http://gizmodo.com/5942551/genetic-proof-that-you-really-do-hate-cilantro


PS. You are right about Okra. As a friend described it, "it's like a bowl full of snot".


----------



## PACman

Damon T said:


> Ok back on track. Sort of. So I've been seeing tons of Behr Marquee interior paint ads claiming one coat coverage. What's up with that?! Showing deep colors etc. say it ain't so Joe!


Only if you spazz like a drug head while you are rolling it. Just like the commercial.


----------



## PACman

Damon T said:


> Ok back on track. Sort of. So I've been seeing tons of Behr Marquee interior paint ads claiming one coat coverage. What's up with that?! Showing deep colors etc. say it ain't so Joe!


Lets just say that it's finally caught up with how Ben Moore was covering ten years ago, as far as the dark colors are concerned. But apparently unlike Ben Moore the Marquee will change colors automatically too. So that's a plus in my book.


----------



## PACman

I hate cilantro. When I lived in san Diego it was in frickin everything. It tastes like dirt to me.


----------



## daArch

Gough said:


> Sorry, Chris. I normally have the utmost respect for you opinions, but you're wrong about cilantro. It's like nectar of the gods. Our current favorite use for it is cilantro pesto. On toast (with or without goat cheese), in soups, on sandwiches...thanks a lot, it's 5AM here and all this talk about cilantro has made me hungry.
> 
> OTOH, it's not really your fault that you don't like Cisneros, blame your parents.
> 
> http://gizmodo.com/5942551/genetic-proof-that-you-really-do-hate-cilantro
> 
> 
> PS. You are right about Okra. As a friend described it, "it's like a bowl full of snot".



Let the haters hate cilantro, maybe the price won't be driven up :thumbsup:

The WW has been growing it her herb garden for the past couple of years. REALLY good fresh.

Okra? Is that the dirty sock soaked in swamp water stuff ?


----------



## Wildbill7145

daArch said:


> Let the haters hate cilantro, maybe the price won't be driven up :thumbsup:
> 
> The WW has been growing it her herb garden for the past couple of years. REALLY good fresh.
> 
> Okra? Is that the dirty sock soaked in swamp water stuff ?


I have never tried okra. Last year I was trying to do some southern recipes and mentioned it. My wife told me it will never enter our house. I guess I'll never know.

Speaking of southern recipes, why is it impossible to find file (pronounce as 'filet') powder? It appears to be essential to make gumbo, but nobody around here has ever heard of it. I read that it's carcinogenic (like everything else) so I quit looking.


----------



## slinger58

Boiled okra is pretty nasty, but now fried okra is good.


----------



## DrakeB

So much hate for okra.

It's one of my favorite vegetables. I should preface this with saying, if you try boiled okra, you're going to have a bad time. I'm not sure why it's popular- it's just like vegetable covered in drool.

But fried okra? Oh hell yes. One of the best foods around. The key is a really light, loose breading. If you bread the **** out of it, it stays wet inside. If your breading is loose, everything gets crispy inside and out. Helluva good thing.

Okra pickles are really good, too, especially the spicy ones. Highly recommend if you ever see at the store. A lot of people don't like the texture (there's a really light fuzzy feeling on the outside, and inside can be a bit slippery) but the taste can't be beat.


----------



## CApainter

I'd eat the Oleanders in my back yard before eating Okra. Isn't Okra just a survival food that's been handed down for generations because of it's nostalgia, in the same way that the taste of squab was inherited from the stricken days of Dicken's London?


----------



## PACman

Ok I give in. When I first moved to Oklahoma I got a job working in a restaurant (I'd been working in restaurants for nine years at the time) and on the first day I saw something in a pot I hadn't seen before. I asked the guy training me what it was and he mumbled something like "iz bolled okra". I asked what it tasted like and he said "okra!". It looked like some kind of cucumber/snot combination. He told me I ought to try it when I went on brake so I did. Guess what it tasted like. Snot. Warm snot.

But I guess the stuff was about the only thing that they could grow during the dust bowl years so it became an Oklahoma favorite. I would have rather eaten the dust myself. More flavor.


----------



## Gough

Wildbill7145 said:


> I have never tried okra. Last year I was trying to do some southern recipes and mentioned it. My wife told me it will never enter our house. I guess I'll never know.
> 
> Speaking of southern recipes, why is it impossible to find file (pronounce as 'filet') powder? It appears to be essential to make gumbo, but nobody around here has ever heard of it. I read that it's carcinogenic (like everything else) so I quit looking.


Try Amazon.ca. A quick look online here in the states turns up lots of it.

Does this mean Canada has outlawed filé powder because it might be a carcinogen, but still allows the open sale of poutine, AKA Heart Attack in a Box? Dude, that's messed up.


----------



## DrakeB

Trying poutine is on my bucket list.


PACman, you're doing it wrong. Not supposed to eat boiled okra, that's just a trap to scare off lightweights.

Fried okra or pickled okra. Fried okra will change your life.


----------



## CApainter

DrakeB said:


> Trying poutine is on my bucket list.
> 
> 
> PACman, you're doing it wrong. Not supposed to eat boiled okra, that's just a trap to scare off lightweights.
> 
> Fried okra or pickled okra. Fried okra will change your life.


That's not fair. Tempura can make even a turd taste good.

I'm sorry, but you really can't talk about food without including its by product.


----------



## DrakeB

CApainter said:


> That's not fair. Tempura can make even a turd taste good.
> 
> I'm sorry, but you really can't talk about food without including its by product.


You must have missed my earlier point where I mentioned doing the lightest possible breading.

Also, fried okra shouldn't be fried in a tempura batter. It gets a cornmeal based batter that should be so light that most of the vegetable is still showing. The good thing about fried okra is the crispy, crunchy insides, not the 'breading.' If the breading is the star you've made a terrible mistake.


----------



## Wildbill7145

Poutine with sausage gravy. Oh. Man.


----------



## CApainter

DrakeB said:


> You must have missed my earlier point where I mentioned doing the lightest possible breading.
> 
> Also, fried okra shouldn't be fried in a tempura batter. It gets a cornmeal based batter that should be so light that most of the vegetable is still showing. The good thing about fried okra is the crispy, crunchy insides, not the 'breading.' If the breading is the star you've made a terrible mistake.


I'm probably the Planet's worst cook. But I do love tempura! I've actually eaten Okra and it's about as appealing to me as kale. Sure, they're super foods and that's great, but if I'm going to enjoy a veggie from an alien planet, it'll be a bacon wrapped Brussels sprout, or baked asparagus with olive oil, salt and pepper.


----------



## Wildbill7145

Dont' think they've actually outlawed File powder Gough, but you sure can't find it in any grocery stores. I seem to remember I gave up and just made whatever it was without it. Some gumbo purists said I was going to hell for that.

Weird. For some reason it wouldn't let me quote your post.


----------



## Gough

CApainter said:


> That's not fair. Tempura can make even a turd taste good.
> 
> I'm sorry, but you really can't talk about food without including its by product.


CA, I really hope that you meant to use the subjunctive in that first sentence...please. (shudder).


----------



## Gough

Wildbill7145 said:


> I have never tried okra. Last year I was trying to do some southern recipes and mentioned it. My wife told me it will never enter our house. I guess I'll never know.
> 
> Speaking of southern recipes, why is it impossible to find file (pronounce as 'filet') powder? It appears to be essential to make gumbo, but nobody around here has ever heard of it. I read that it's carcinogenic (like everything else) so I quit looking.


Some folk use Okra to provide the snot-like thickener instead of filé powder.


----------



## Wildbill7145

Lol, I still can't quote your posts. I click on quote and I get a blank reply box.

Anyhoo, based on the descriptors in this thread I don't think I'm ever gonna try Okra. Snot, slimey, etc.


----------



## SemiproJohn

Wildbill7145 said:


> Poutine with sausage gravy. Oh. Man.


Poutine is something I have never tried. Not any demand for it down here in the Peninsular Swamp. Not enough French Canadians I guess. Ironically, my last name is French and I've got French Canadian in my blood from my father's side of the genetic pool.

I just read about poutine on wikipedia. It says it is commonly served, among other places, inside hockey rinks as a comfort food. That immediately makes it a winner in my book.

There are so many variations. Cheese curds or mozzarella cheese, various types of gravy. I guess the common denominator are the french fries at the bottom of the serving. I'd be very willing to try it.


----------



## Oden

Wildbill7145 said:


> I have never tried okra. Last year I was trying to do some southern recipes and mentioned it. My wife told me it will never enter our house. I guess I'll never know. Speaking of southern recipes, why is it impossible to find file (pronounce as 'filet') powder? It appears to be essential to make gumbo, but nobody around here has ever heard of it. I read that it's carcinogenic (like everything else) so I quit looking.











This stuff is the bomb
IMHO.
Off the shelf


----------



## Wildbill7145

SemiproJohn said:


> Poutine is something I have never tried. Not any demand for it down here in the Peninsular Swamp. Not enough French Canadians I guess. Ironically, my last name is French and I've got French Canadian in my blood from my father's side of the genetic pool.
> 
> I just read about poutine on wikipedia. It says it is commonly served, among other places, inside hockey rinks as a comfort food. That immediately makes it a winner in my book.
> 
> There are so many variations. Cheese curds or mozzarella cheese, various types of gravy. I guess the common denominator are the french fries at the bottom of the serving. I'd be very willing to try it.


The traditional recipe uses curd, some places started using mozzarella as it's cheaper. I'm pretty sure Poutine started in the Quebec ski hills.

Very willing? My god man, you have to try it! It's got gravy on it!

McDonalds here in Canada sells it. Don't know about the States. Don't go that route. Like everything else they sell, you'll be running to the pooper in exactly 20 minutes.


----------



## Wildbill7145

Oden said:


> View attachment 57825
> 
> 
> This stuff is the bomb
> IMHO.
> Off the shelf


Are the little green star shaped guys on there the Okra? Looks harmless enough.


----------



## daArch

SemiproJohn said:


> Poutine is something I have never tried. Not any demand for it down here in the Peninsular Swamp. Not enough French Canadians I guess. Ironically, my last name is French and I've got French Canadian in my blood from my father's side of the genetic pool.
> 
> I just read about poutine on wikipedia. It says it is commonly served, among other places, inside hockey rinks as a comfort food. That immediately makes it a winner in my book.
> 
> There are so many variations. Cheese curds or mozzarella cheese, various types of gravy. I guess the common denominator are the french fries at the bottom of the serving. I'd be very willing to try it.



NOT at the Gahden. MAYBE in the Forum, or the Arena, or the Centre, but NOT in the fahkin Gahhhden


----------



## chrisn

Wildbill7145 said:


> Lol, I still can't quote your posts. I click on quote and I get a blank reply box.
> 
> Anyhoo, based on the descriptors in this thread I don't think I'm ever gonna try Okra. Snot, slimey, etc.


trust me, you are not missing anything


----------



## chrisn

Wildbill7145 said:


> Are the little green star shaped guys on there the Okra? Looks harmless enough.


yes, but fortunately, it does NOT come in the box, which is good stuff:thumbsup:


----------



## Seth The Painter

daArch said:


> NOT at the Gahden. MAYBE in the Forum, or the Arena, or the Centre, but NOT in the fahkin Gahhhden


#Fahkunfugedabowtit


----------



## Clearlycut

Seriously i havnt clicked on this thread for like 2 days. And now that i did im sincerly worried and disturberd.
Lol
All this from Behr?
Lmao


----------



## stelzerpaintinginc.

Clearlycut said:


> Seriously i havnt clicked on this thread for like 2 days. And now that i did im sincerly worried and disturberd.
> Lol
> All this from Behr?
> Lmao



No, mostly from gravy.


----------



## CApainter

Gough said:


> CA, I really hope that you meant to use the subjunctive in that first sentence...please. (shudder).


Sorry Teach.

How about, "If a turd was edible, tempura would improve its taste".


----------



## RH

Speaking of snot, that's why I could never get into raw oysters. Fried, grilled, or pretty much any other cooked form - great, but not raw. Anything that needs to be swallowed whole just to get it down doesn't qualify as good eats in my cookbook.


----------



## CApainter

RH said:


> Speaking of snot, that's why I could never get into raw oysters. Fried, grilled, or pretty much any other cooked form - great, but not raw. Anything that needs to be swallowed whole just to get it down doesn't qualify as good eats in my cookbook.


I like oysters only because it's an excuse to drink a lot of beer.


----------



## daArch

CApainter said:


> I like oysters only because it's an excuse to drink a lot of beer.


and to slather good horseradish on. 

The horseradish in NOLA would clear your sinuses when sniffed from two feet. EXCELLENT. And tasted good too. 

Back in the late seventies, our host took us back country up some bayou where they were serving FRESH _ersters_ on the half shell for 10¢ a piece. I spent many dollars there that night.


----------



## Gough

CApainter said:


> Sorry Teach.
> 
> How about, "If a turd was edible, tempura would improve its taste".


:thumbup: Even a simple change from "can" to "could" does the job.


----------



## chrisn

RH said:


> Speaking of snot, that's why I could never get into raw oysters. Fried, grilled, or pretty much any other cooked form - great, but not raw. Anything that needs to be swallowed whole just to get it down doesn't qualify as good eats in my cookbook.


I will not get into a battle, but fresh raw oysters, with a drop of lemon, is probably my favorite food. Forget the horseradish, cocktail sauce, etc, just plain, nothing better( except a rare leg of lamb)


----------



## Oden

Wildbill7145 said:


> Are the little green star shaped guys on there the Okra? Looks harmless enough.











So you made my Sunday dinner menu
The green things aren't actually in there. 
But yeh I think that's okra
Guess maybe u put it in urself if u want
I put in some canned tomatoes. I'd try the okra? If I knew where it was. Maybe.


----------



## Gough

CApainter said:


> Sorry Teach.
> 
> How about, "If a turd was edible, tempura would improve its taste".


A for effort, C- for execution. Sorry back atcha.

http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/subjunctive-verbs


----------



## slinger58

I know this is kinda late to the party, but I think it was maybe the late, great Lewis Grizzard who wrote that "no one really knows what boiled okra tastes like, it slides down the throat way faster than the taste buds can register".

Something to that effect, anyway.

But as Drake and I have pointed out, _fried_ okra is a whole different story. :thumbsup:


----------



## CApainter

Gough said:


> A for effort, C- for execution. Sorry back atcha.
> 
> http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/subjunctive-verbs


If a turd were edible, tempura would improve its taste.

Thanks Gough. It's awesome discovering how the subjunctive mood and the indicative mood can influence the intent of a sentence. There was also a little blip in that blog that referenced emoticums, which is interesting given an NPR program I listened to recently that presented emoticums as a legitimate language.


----------



## slinger58

CApainter said:


> If a turd were edible, tempura would improve its taste.
> 
> Thanks Gough. It's awesome discovering how the subjunctive mood and the indicative mood can influence the intent of a sentence. There was also a little blip in that blog that referenced emoticums, which is interesting given an NPR program I listened to recently that presented emoticums as a legitimate language.


500+ posts and we're talking about eating turds. 

Okra's looking better and better.


----------



## Gough

slinger58 said:


> 500+ posts and we're talking about eating turds.
> 
> Okra's looking better and better.


Given the initial topic, it's not much of a stretch.


----------



## daArch

I have a feeling if this thread keeps branching off as it is doing, purdy soon it will run on the same derailed siding as the OPPU thread and thus will draw Steve R back into the ring 

And that's a GOOD thing :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## DrakeB

You lot are going to make me bring fried okra to the first annual PT cook-out.


----------



## PACman

Chili cheese fries with bacon. Nuf said.


----------



## PACman

I just went to wash a wall I painted with some Marquee a couple of months ago. Guess what? It came right off with a wet paper towel. Satin red. It did cover though.

Oddly, the Freshcoat Unite I painted right next to it doesn't scrub off with a wet scotchbrite pad and Ajax. Eggshell red. Same color. Same price. Covers just as good if not a little better because it doesn't drag like hell. Must be something wrong with the Freshcoat huh? Because we all know how good the Behr marquee is.

Again, it's right here on the wall for anyone who wants to try it themselves.


----------



## PaintersUnite

PACman said:


> I just went to wash a wall I painted with some Marquee a couple of months ago. Guess what? It came right off with a wet paper towel. Satin red. It did cover though.


Great news! Paint with daBehr (no pun intended), and when it fails, have plenty of repeat business! 

Would be really cool, if BEHR could push a button at their plant, and all BEHR paint jobs around the globe, would start pealing off walls simultaneously. Now that's enginuity! Love it! :jester:


----------



## PACman

See! I knew I could get this thread back on topic! In their defense it was a bright red with quite a lot of colorant.


----------



## PACman

PaintersUnite said:


> Great news! Paint with daBehr (no pun intended), and when it fails, have plenty of repeat business!
> 
> Would be really cool, if BEHR could push a button at their plant, and all BEHR paint jobs around the globe, would start pealing off walls simultaneously. Now that's enginuity! Love it! :jester:


Maybe that's what they did with the Deckover. Push the button and pow! It all jumps off.


----------



## PNW Painter

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PACman

PNW Painter said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't see anything. Are you guys talking about me behind my back?


----------



## Gough

PACman said:


> I don't see anything. Are you guys talking about me behind my back?


(Psst, everybody, act natural.) Hey, PACman, how're you doing?


----------



## PACman

Gough said:


> (Psst, everybody, act natural.) Hey, PACman, how're you doing?


Wow this internet stuff sure is realistic! Just like high school!


----------



## PNW Painter

I'm not sure why something blank was posted Damn iPhone app!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## daArch

PACman said:


> Wow this internet stuff sure is realistic! Just like high school!


You obviously did NOT go to Ridgemont High


----------



## RH

PACman said:


> Wow this internet stuff sure is realistic! Just like high school!


Pffft... in high school you wished they were talking about you. :yes:


----------



## daArch

RH said:


> Pffft... in high school you wished they were talking about you. :yes:



Not necessarily. I was told my name was brought up quite a few times in faculty meetings, and NOT for setting a higher bar.


----------



## PACman

daArch said:


> You obviously did NOT go to Ridgemont High


I will never forget the first time I saw that movie at the local theatre. When spiccoli fell out of the van half of the people in the theatre turn around and yelled my name. I had scraggly hair to my shoulders and was a pretty avid skateboarder at the time. But I drove a skateboard sticker plastered Vega at the time so I don't know how they made that connection.


----------



## PACman

RH said:


> Pffft... in high school you wished they were talking about you. :yes:


Trust me. I am well aware that most people in my high school were doing their best to forget me.


----------



## Oden

They didn't have pork roll
Got this out there down there



















Scrapple. Don't need to know what's in it, just say it's pork.









Good stuff


----------



## I paint paint

Aww man. The dark crispier the better.

That's the best Labor Day breakfast a guy could ask for!

Finally something us Yanks have to make Ben the Painter/Chef jealous.


----------



## Wildbill7145

I'd never heard of that before, but had to know what's in it. From Wikipedia:
*Scrapple*, also known by the Pennsylvania Dutch name _panhaas_ or "pan rabbit,"[1][2] is traditionally a mush of pork scraps and trimmings combined with cornmeal and wheat flour, often buckwheat flour, and spices. The mush is formed into a semi-solid congealed loaf, and slices of the scrapple are then pan-fried before serving. Scraps of meat left over from butchering, not used or sold elsewhere, were made into scrapple to avoid waste. Scrapple is best known as a rural American food of the Mid-Atlantic states (Delaware, Maryland, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Virginia and West Virginia). Scrapple and _panhaas_ are commonly considered an ethnic food of the Pennsylvania Dutch, including the Mennonites and Amish. Scrapple is found in supermarkets throughout the region in both fresh and frozen refrigerated cases.


----------



## johnnyb

Wildbill7145 said:


> I'd never heard of that before, but had to know what's in it. From Wikipedia:
> *Scrapple*, also known by the Pennsylvania Dutch name _panhaas_ or "pan rabbit,"[1][2] is traditionally a mush of pork scraps and trimmings combined with cornmeal and wheat flour, often buckwheat flour, and spices. The mush is formed into a semi-solid congealed loaf, and slices of the scrapple are then pan-fried before serving. Scraps of meat left over from butchering, not used or sold elsewhere, were made into scrapple to avoid waste. Scrapple is best known as a rural American food of the Mid-Atlantic states (Delaware, Maryland, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Virginia and West Virginia). Scrapple and _panhaas_ are commonly considered an ethnic food of the Pennsylvania Dutch, including the Mennonites and Amish. Scrapple is found in supermarkets throughout the region in both fresh and frozen refrigerated cases.


Prior to watching dirty jobs with Mike Rowe, I had no clue about scrapple either haha. Was cool to see what all goes into the process of making it.

I still have yet to try some, it looks like a product that my brain tells me I wouldn't like, but would probably like it when I tried it.


----------



## SemiproJohn

Wildbill7145 said:


> I'd never heard of that before, but had to know what's in it. From Wikipedia:
> *Scrapple*, also known by the Pennsylvania Dutch name _panhaas_ or "pan rabbit,"[1][2] is traditionally a mush of pork scraps and trimmings combined with cornmeal and wheat flour, often buckwheat flour, and spices. The mush is formed into a semi-solid congealed loaf, and slices of the scrapple are then pan-fried before serving. Scraps of meat left over from butchering, not used or sold elsewhere, were made into scrapple to avoid waste. Scrapple is best known as a rural American food of the Mid-Atlantic states (Delaware, Maryland, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Virginia and West Virginia). Scrapple and _panhaas_ are commonly considered an ethnic food of the Pennsylvania Dutch, including the Mennonites and Amish. Scrapple is found in supermarkets throughout the region in both fresh and frozen refrigerated cases.


I had Mennonite neighbors when I lived in Sarasota. I remember that they made Scrapple, and haven't heard of it again until now.

They also used to mix up scrambled eggs and potatoes and called it Hubble Pubble. No kidding.


----------



## Gough

SemiproJohn said:


> I had Mennonite neighbors when I lived in Sarasota. I remember that they made Scrapple, and haven't heard of it again until now.
> 
> They also used to mix up scrambled eggs and potatoes and called it Hubble Pubble. No kidding.


I think it's actually "Hopple Popple"....

http://www.food.com/recipe/hopple-popple-german-breakfast-casserole-182810

A little like a frittata or a Spanish tortilla.


----------



## SemiproJohn

Gough said:


> I think it's actually "Hopple Popple"....
> 
> http://www.food.com/recipe/hopple-popple-german-breakfast-casserole-182810
> 
> A little like a frittata or a Spanish tortilla.


Interesting. I distinctly remember they served me only scrambled eggs and fried potatoes for breakfast. Maybe Hubble Pubble was a truncated version of Hopple Popple. Those wacky Mennonites.

What's important is that we are keeping this thread alive! Gravy, Poutine, Scrapple, and Hopple Popple/Hubble Pubble. What's next, a visit from Guy Fieri?


----------



## Tonyg

Product preference doesn't always have to be about who's worse. This is business and there is a market for both.

I would rather drive a Lexus than a Hyundai. 

I also prefer to sell the Lexus rather than the Hyundai. Better 'commission', better projects, more discerning customer base. 

Just sayin...


----------



## Gough

SemiproJohn said:


> Interesting. I distinctly remember they served me only scrambled eggs and fried potatoes for breakfast. Maybe Hubble Pubble was a truncated version of Hopple Popple. Those wacky Mennonites.
> 
> What's important is that we are keeping this thread alive! Gravy, Poutine, Scrapple, and Hopple Popple/Hubble Pubble. What's next, a visit from Guy Fieri?


I think there are a lot of versions of Hopple Popple. The one I linked was certainly different than the one with which I was familiar. My guess would be that the pronunciation is a reflection of a vowel shift. Did they still have an accent?


----------



## SemiproJohn

Gough said:


> I think there are a lot of versions of Hopple Popple. The one I linked was certainly different than the one with which I was familiar. My guess would be that the pronunciation is a reflection of a vowel shift. Did they still have an accent?


They did have an accent, which was especially prominent when they spoke words containing the long letter "O" sound.


----------



## PRC

SemiproJohn said:


> I had Mennonite neighbors when I lived in Sarasota. I remember that they made Scrapple, and haven't heard of it again until now.
> 
> They also used to mix up scrambled eggs and potatoes and called it Hubble Pubble. No kidding.


The fresh scrapple is the best! Never liked it till I got some from a local farmer.


----------



## Gough

PRC said:


> The fresh scrapple is the best! Never liked it till I got some from a local farmer.


When you say "fresh" scrapple, does that mean that it's just been scraped up from the road?


----------



## stelzerpaintinginc.

I always think of Scooby Doo's lil sidekick when I hear the word, "Scrappie". He ruined every episode he was in IMO, just like when cousin Oliver made his appearances on Brady Bunch. 

What does all this have to do with painting? Not an effin thing, and I'm cool with that. 

Happy Labor Day Folks!


----------



## Wildbill7145

SemiproJohn said:


> Those wacky Mennonites.



Speaking of which, do you guys down south see the same... dislike/derision, I don't know what to call it for these folks? I'd never in my life seen an Amish or Mennonite person except on TV until we moved here. I find them kind of interesting and have tried to read up on their background.

I've just found that people around town here really seem to hate on them for some reason, some taking it pretty seriously. I can't figure out if it's because they don't pay taxes, leave horse poop on the road or what.

I've pretty much just written it off to Xenophobia. It's pretty well entrenched.


----------



## Gough

Wildbill7145 said:


> Speaking of which, do you guys down south see the same... dislike/derision, I don't know what to call it for these folks? I'd never in my life seen an Amish or Mennonite person except on TV until we moved here. I find them kind of interesting and have tried to read up on their background.
> 
> I've just found that people around town here really seem to hate on them for some reason, some taking it pretty seriously. I can't figure out if it's because they don't pay taxes, leave horse poop on the road or what.
> 
> I've pretty much just written it off to Xenophobia. It's pretty well entrenched.


Not sure about the situation in Canada, but in the states, they do pay taxes, with a handful of exceptions. They don't pay employment taxes, but they don't collect those benefits, either. Nor do the Old Orders pay Highway Use Tax, since they don't drive on the roads with what gas-powered equipment they might have.

I think you're right that it's more a matter of Xenophobia than anything else.


----------



## PRC

Gough said:


> When you say "fresh" scrapple, does that mean that it's just been scraped up from the road?


But of course! Is there any other kind?


----------



## Wildbill7145

Gough said:


> Not sure about the situation in Canada, but in the states, they do pay taxes, with a handful of exceptions. They don't pay employment taxes, but they don't collect those benefits, either. Nor do the Old Orders pay Highway Use Tax, since they don't drive on the roads with what gas-powered equipment they might have.
> 
> I think you're right that it's more a matter of Xenophobia than anything else.


Yep, this town has more racist people than I care to think about, so I shouldn't be surprised.

More I think about it, they do pay some taxes. They have to. They buy stuff that's taxed. Not sure about property tax. I know they don't pay the tax for schools. Not sure about income tax.


----------



## Gough

Wildbill7145 said:


> Yep, this town has more racist people than I care to think about, so I shouldn't be surprised.
> 
> More I think about it, they do pay some taxes. They have to. They buy stuff that's taxed. Not sure about property tax. I know they don't pay the tax for schools. Not sure about income tax.


I know in the states, they pay both property and income taxes, even though the stricter orders don't use the public schools.


----------



## Wildbill7145

Actually, I stand corrected. Or rather the people that told me they pay no taxes do. They do not pay gas taxes as the ones who drive buggies don't buy gas. I really have no idea about the gas taxes. No school taxes as they don't send their kids to school.


----------



## Gough

Wildbill7145 said:


> Actually, I stand corrected. Or rather the people that told me they pay no taxes do. They do not pay gas taxes as the ones who drive buggies don't buy gas. I really have no idea about the gas taxes. No school taxes as they don't send their kids to school.


Aren't the school taxes part of property taxes?


----------



## Wildbill7145

Gough said:


> Aren't the school taxes part of property taxes?


Yeah! The more I look into this, the more I'm calling BS on almost everything the locals around here whine about.

I think the main one they gripe about is about the roads. They don't buy gas (most gas taxes go to roads), but most grumble the buggies with their steel wheels do more damage to the roads than rubber tires. Supposedly.


----------



## Gough

Wildbill7145 said:


> Yeah! The more I look into this, the more I'm calling BS on almost everything the locals around here whine about.
> 
> I think the main one they gripe about is about the roads. They don't buy gas (most gas taxes go to roads), but most grumble the buggies with their steel wheels do more damage to the roads than rubber tires. Supposedly.


I thought the steel wheels were just on the tractors. That's so there is less temptation to use them for transportation.


----------



## Oden

Wildbill7145 said:


> Speaking of which, do you guys down south see the same... dislike/derision, I don't know what to call it for these folks? I'd never in my life seen an Amish or Mennonite person except on TV until we moved here. I find them kind of interesting and have tried to read up on their background.
> 
> I've just found that people around town here really seem to hate on them for some reason, some taking it pretty seriously. I can't figure out if it's because they don't pay taxes, leave horse poop on the road or what.
> 
> I've pretty much just written it off to Xenophobia. It's pretty well entrenched.




Not me I couldn't care less

Some who are in the trades don't appreciate them too much. They work cheap.


----------



## chrisn

Oden said:


> Not me I couldn't care less
> 
> Some who are in the trades don't appreciate them too much. They work cheap.


They work cheap, BUT do excellent work also.


----------



## PACman

PRC said:


> The fresh scrapple is the best! Never liked it till I got some from a local farmer.


My grandmother made her own. I remember loving spending weekends at her house because she would bake bread a fry up some scrapple. Some of my best childhood memories. She also used to make what she called corn mush, but it was somewhat different from what i see called corn mush today.

Also potato pancakes. Everyday. Awesome. I've never had potato pancakes that even came close to hers.

And fresh un-pasteurized milk. Didn't kill me either.

And kool-aid made from chilled "sugar water" straight from the maple trees. Not a grain of unrefined sugar.

And no indoor plumbing and absolutely NO heat of any kind in the house.

And she wasn't even Amish.


----------



## PACman

chrisn said:


> They work cheap, BUT do excellent work also.


For the most part. There are a few around here working that migrate up from Holmes county that are doing some pretty hacked up work. We should build a wall or something.


----------



## Gough

PACman said:


> My grandmother made her own. I remember loving spending weekends at her house because she would bake bread a fry up some scrapple. Some of my best childhood memories. She also used to make what she called corn mush, but it was somewhat different from what i see called corn mush today.
> 
> .


Wow, you must be old if you knew it as corn (meal) mush, or haven't you heard? It's called polenta now.


----------



## journeymanPainter

Let's kick this dead horse, and revive this attack thread. 

Repeat customer called me in to do some odds and sods for him, and paint a nursery(in Behr). White over a very light yellowy cream. 4 cuts and 3 rolls. Took 3 hours for the first coat to set up. Worst coverage I've ever had, that's saying a lot too cause I've had to do miles of red and yellow pipe (before the red and yellow bases )


----------



## Gough

journeymanPainter said:


> Let's kick this dead horse, and revive this attack thread.
> 
> Repeat customer called me in to do some odds and sods for him, and paint a nursery(in Behr). White over a very light yellowy cream. 4 cuts and 3 rolls. Took 3 hours for the first coat to set up. Worst coverage I've ever had, that's saying a lot too cause I've had to do miles of red and yellow pipe (before the red and yellow bases )


Is "odds and sods" a Canajun thing?

EDIT: and here I'd thought it was an AutoCorrect Fail....


----------



## Seth The Painter

journeymanPainter said:


> Let's kick this dead horse, and revive this attack thread.
> 
> Repeat customer called me in to do some odds and sods for him, and paint a nursery(in Behr). White over a very light yellowy cream. 4 cuts and 3 rolls. Took 3 hours for the first coat to set up. Worst coverage I've ever had, that's saying a lot too cause I've had to do miles of red and yellow pipe (before the red and yellow bases )


That sucks I would hate to be you. Worst thing about it is you could've used better paint and got it done way faster and it would last longer as well. All of that to save 10 bucks a gallon behr is a genius company. They take advantage of people with no common sense.


----------



## journeymanPainter

Seth The Painter said:


> That sucks I would hate to be you. Worst thing about it is you could've used better paint and got it done way faster and it would last longer as well. All of that to save 10 bucks a gallon behr is a genius company. They take advantage of people with no common sense.


I could've bought diamond (aura equivalent) for less, had a better/nicer finish, and it would have only been 2 coats


----------



## journeymanPainter

Gough said:


> Is "odds and sods" a Canajun thing?
> 
> EDIT: and here I'd thought it was an AutoCorrect Fail....


Odds and ends. Little things. 

Touch ups in an area I did a few months ago (bunch of construction damage), and NO FLASHING. Crown and base boards, couple doors, my life story, etc


----------



## journeymanPainter

4 hrs after finishing, cleaning up, etc the bottom colour (a medium base grey) was still wet. I waited 3 hrs between coats and I didn't have a problem painting wet on wet....cause my first coat was still wet


----------



## PACman

journeymanPainter said:


> Let's kick this dead horse, and revive this attack thread.
> 
> Repeat customer called me in to do some odds and sods for him, and paint a nursery(in Behr). White over a very light yellowy cream. 4 cuts and 3 rolls. Took 3 hours for the first coat to set up. Worst coverage I've ever had, that's saying a lot too cause I've had to do miles of red and yellow pipe (before the red and yellow bases )


White won't cover light yellow? Sad. But i hear it all the time. In fact i have a "wall of shame" right on my sales floor where i encourage customers to try my paint and most of my competitors paints over black, red, and medium gray stripes. Then i have them sign their work. Many DIY'ers have done it, but i have yet to have a contractor do it. 

It's amazing how crappy some well known paint lines cover when they are tested side by side.


----------



## PACman

Gough said:


> Wow, you must be old if you knew it as corn (meal) mush, or haven't you heard? It's called polenta now.


Yeah, Everything is italian or french now. That way everyone can charge more for it.

Or is polenta Spanish? Who knows.


----------



## PACman

Had a women in the store yesterday asking me if it was common for satin paint and primer in one to peal off the wall in sheets. Of course i said "not really" and asked her what kind of prep they did.
Her husband is a drywall contractor. Drywall was fully primed with the four letter paint brands drywall primer after he cleaned the dust off of the drywall. They let it dry over night and put on a coat of "four letter paint brand premium plus ultra satin". Let it dry over night. Went to put on a second coat, and it was still tacky. waited another day to apply another coat of "four letter paint brand premium plus ultra satin". Waited two days before doing some touch-ups. Touch-ups were significantly whiter then previous two coats, so put a third coat of "flpbppus" onto wall. Of course at this point i asked her if it was straight white or a color. She said it was matched to SW dover white to match the rest of the bathroom, so it wasn't an untinted pastel base.

BUT, the coverage wasn't her problem. It was when she noticed that the paint was "rubbery" and she could peel it right off the wall three weeks after the addition was painted. The paint was peeling off of the drywall primer! And, they didn't use that bathroom for 4 days after they finished painting it because they were still working on the plumbing fixtures.

Unfortunately i had to tell her that all i could do was sell her a different brand of paint, and that the flpbppus had to be removed, and also that she would have to go back to you know who to find out what happened and how to remove it.

They just offered her another gallon of paint. Nothing else. No comment on what happened or how to rectify the problem. Not from Home depot or the "flpb".


----------



## Jmayspaint

I get to try some exterior Behr today myself. It's a medium sized deck job where the HO is supplying materials. They were quite insistent about using Behr because of consumer reports. For the sake of experimentation (don't get the opportunity to use very often at all, and don't think I've ever used the exterior) I didn't try to talk them out of using it. 

The pickets and hand rails are going solid stain in a deep base green. It's actually doing pretty good so far application wise. They also have some vinyl window trim to be painted with Behr exterior deep base satin. I'll do those today and see how it goes. 

I did talk them out of using a Behr sealer for the deck floor by refusing to stand behind a product I have no experience with. They went with Cabbot semi solid oil there. That's been a pretty decent product for me over the years and I'm not afraid to give a one year warranty if I can control all application factors. 

I'm not guaranteeing the hand rails either but they're ok with that. Guess they really trust CR. 

The whole reason I'm doing this deck is because of a severe product failure. Arbor Coat solid was applied to the rails and floor and failed catastrophically within a few months. It was so bad they replaced the deck boards instead of trying to strip them. From examining the Remaining Arbor Coat on the hand rails, it seems apparent that the failure was caused by moisture in the substrate, or no prep on new treated lumber, or both. The Arbor Coat didn't penetrate the wood at all. Seemed to be sitting right on top without even any pigment soaked into the wood. The hand rails sanded clean with very little effort. Seems an unfortunate example of a product being blamed for poor application.


----------



## PACman

Jmayspaint said:


> I get to try some exterior Behr today myself. It's a medium sized deck job where the HO is supplying materials. They were quite insistent about using Behr because of consumer reports. For the sake of experimentation (don't get the opportunity to use very often at all, and don't think I've ever used the exterior) I didn't try to talk them out of using it.
> 
> The pickets and hand rails are going solid stain in a deep base green. It's actually doing pretty good so far application wise. They also have some vinyl window trim to be painted with Behr exterior deep base satin. I'll do those today and see how it goes.
> 
> I did talk them out of using a Behr sealer for the deck floor by refusing to stand behind a product I have no experience with. They went with Cabbot semi solid oil there. That's been a pretty decent product for me over the years and I'm not afraid to give a one year warranty if I can control all application factors.
> 
> I'm not guaranteeing the hand rails either but they're ok with that. Guess they really trust CR.
> 
> The whole reason I'm doing this deck is because of a severe product failure. Arbor Coat solid was applied to the rails and floor and failed catastrophically within a few months. It was so bad they replaced the deck boards instead of trying to strip them. From examining the Remaining Arbor Coat on the hand rails, it seems apparent that the failure was caused by moisture in the substrate, or no prep on new treated lumber, or both. The Arbor Coat didn't penetrate the wood at all. Seemed to be sitting right on top without even any pigment soaked into the wood. The hand rails sanded clean with very little effort. Seems an unfortunate example of a product being blamed for poor application.


Ahh, the dreaded mil glaze rears it's ugly head yet again! A little deck brightener on that nice new treated lumber would have worked miracles!
I had a painter that had to stain 200 handrail spindles and a bunch of top and bottom rails a few weeks ago. I told him to spray them down with some deck brightener and rinse them, then let them dry before he stained them (spray). He did, and the stain penetrated perfectly. The homeowner used the exact same stain (starting out of the same bucket no less) on the decking without using any brightener or anything to remove the mil glaze that "doesn't exist" according to the lumber industry. The decking would not take the stain at all. If you think about how much more mil glaze there would be on those turned spindles as opposed to the flat milled lumber....Kind of makes you wonder doesn't it?


----------



## journeymanPainter

PACman said:


> White won't cover light yellow? Sad. But i hear it all the time. In fact i have a "wall of shame" right on my sales floor where i encourage customers to try my paint and most of my competitors paints over black, red, and medium gray stripes. Then i have them sign their work. Many DIY'ers have done it, but i have yet to have a contractor do it.
> 
> It's amazing how crappy some well known paint lines cover when they are tested side by side.


Wasn't even a 'true' yellow. Very muted, more of a strong yellow undertone


----------



## PACman

journeymanPainter said:


> Wasn't even a 'true' yellow. Very muted, more of a strong yellow undertone


With a whiff of cat urine too, I suppose?


----------



## journeymanPainter

PACman said:


> With a whiff of cat urine too, I suppose?


No, no cat urine. Lots of dog hair though. 

The white did have a very off putting smell, the grey didn't (sane product different bases)


----------



## Jmayspaint

I was rather excited this morning to dig into some deep base exterior satin Behr plus ultra. It went on thick, and had great wet hide. At first I thought I was going to get away with two coats dark green over white, but it didn't quite cover all the way and I had to do a third. Didn't flow out that great, but not too terrible either. Overall a very hum drum experience, not too much different than the dark green Resilience I used last week minus the weird color flashing. 

The rest of the day though, proved to be more exciting. 

To tell this story I'll have to admit to some laziness on my part. I had six gallons of solid stain, or rather All in One Weather Proofing stain & sealer, to apply to the pickets and handrails, two coats. Rather than box the five and the one together, I started spraying out of the five and finished the pickets on one whole side of the house yesterday. 

I was pretty impressed with the stain. It seemed to penetrate well, with good color saturation, and dried to a matte finish after two coats. Reminded me of how Zar solid stain does and looks, except not oil modified of course. 

This morning I mixed the extra gallon with the three left in the five and started at the corner I had stopped at yesterday. My thinking was if the extra gallon was a little different color it would be diluted by the three gallons already in the five, and I was painting corner to corner sections anyway, so shouldn't matter much. 

When the first sets started to dry, it was clearly a very different color. Ok, that's not too surprising really. I should have boxed it and I just got busted being lazy. The difference was a lot more than what I would consider acceptable variances, but still basically my fault. 

The real surprise though was that the sheen was also radically different. Rather than the soaked in, matte film I had on the first sets, this looked like a satin, or even semi gloss paint. Didn't penetrate nearly as well and dried quite shiny. 

Here's the corner I was planning on making the transition at,









At first I thought I had done something really stupid like poured the satin house paint into the five on accident. That wasn't the case though, the five and the one we're exactly the same product, base, and color. 

I understand the color difference, but how in the world did it go from a dull matte to almost semi gloss? 

I took this pic at the end of the day to show how much sheen the dried film of the second batch had









Here's the formulas for the 5 and the 1, 









Can one of you paint store guys tell me if there is something on these labels I'm not seeing that could explain this? Again, the cans, base numbers, and color name were exactly the same. 

The sad thing is, I didn't really even need the extra gallon. The 5 would have been plenty to do the job, I just mixed it in to make sure I had plenty.


----------



## daArch

unbehrable


----------



## Jmayspaint

daArch said:


> unbehrable



Really. I'm starting to understand some of the virulent criticism that Behr and HD gets from some pros. 

It's not that I don't believe you guys about it being basically crap, it's just hard to imagine such a widely recognized, and praised by some, brand actually being That bad. 

I couldn't resist the opportunity to try it for myself. Kinda like the urge a kid has to touch the stove top even though they have been told it's hot Nothing like seeing for yourself. 

Besides, it does get kinda boring when everything goes smoothly day after day. I have been painting so long that I often look for things and/or products to do differently just to spice it up. Variety is the spice of life after all.


----------



## PaintersUnite

journeymanPainter said:


> Let's kick this dead horse, and revive this attack thread.
> 
> Repeat customer called me in to do some odds and sods for him, and paint a nursery(in Behr). White over a very light yellowy cream. 4 cuts and 3 rolls. Took 3 hours for the first coat to set up. Worst coverage I've ever had, that's saying a lot too cause I've had to do miles of red and yellow pipe (before the red and yellow bases )


Ok, read four of your posts. Problem is, they lack details. IE: BEHR product? sheen used? sheen painted over? prep?

Here is what puzzles me about the BEHR haters - BEHR is almost always referred to as a *one produc*t, *one can of paint* brand. If a painter can not be specific with product details, I think it is safe to assume they are not detail oriented across the board. I can only imagination the lack of detail, they overlook during the course of their work. Really.

But out of curiosity, which can of BEHR paint product did you use?
I have numbered them 1 thru 3 to make it easy. 
Sorry, not meant to offend, just breaking them balz for you.


----------



## journeymanPainter

Jmayspaint said:


> I was rather excited this morning to dig into some deep base exterior satin Behr plus ultra. It went on thick, and had great wet hide. At first I thought I was going to get away with two coats dark green over white, but it didn't quite cover all the way and I had to do a third. Didn't flow out that great, but not too terrible either. Overall a very hum drum experience, not too much different than the dark green Resilience I used last week minus the weird color flashing.
> 
> The rest of the day though, proved to be more exciting.
> 
> To tell this story I'll have to admit to some laziness on my part. I had six gallons of solid stain, or rather All in One Weather Proofing stain & sealer, to apply to the pickets and handrails, two coats. Rather than box the five and the one together, I started spraying out of the five and finished the pickets on one whole side of the house yesterday.
> 
> I was pretty impressed with the stain. It seemed to penetrate well, with good color saturation, and dried to a matte finish after two coats. Reminded me of how Zar solid stain does and looks, except not oil modified of course.
> 
> This morning I mixed the extra gallon with the three left in the five and started at the corner I had stopped at yesterday. My thinking was if the extra gallon was a little different color it would be diluted by the three gallons already in the five, and I was painting corner to corner sections anyway, so shouldn't matter much.
> 
> When the first sets started to dry, it was clearly a very different color. Ok, that's not too surprising really. I should have boxed it and I just got busted being lazy. The difference was a lot more than what I would consider acceptable variances, but still basically my fault.
> 
> The real surprise though was that the sheen was also radically different. Rather than the soaked in, matte film I had on the first sets, this looked like a satin, or even semi gloss paint. Didn't penetrate nearly as well and dried quite shiny.
> 
> Here's the corner I was planning on making the transition at,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At first I thought I had done something really stupid like poured the satin house paint into the five on accident. That wasn't the case though, the five and the one we're exactly the same product, base, and color.
> 
> I understand the color difference, but how in the world did it go from a dull matte to almost semi gloss?
> 
> I took this pic at the end of the day to show how much sheen the dried film of the second batch had
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the formulas for the 5 and the 1,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can one of you paint store guys tell me if there is something on these labels I'm not seeing that could explain this? Again, the cans, base numbers, and color name were exactly the same.
> 
> The sad thing is, I didn't really even need the extra gallon. The 5 would have been plenty to do the job, I just mixed it in to make sure I had plenty.


The number at the bottom of the label don't match. Could be because it's a fiver and a single, but I've done that before without any issues


----------



## Jmayspaint

journeymanPainter said:


> The number at the bottom of the label don't match. Could be because it's a fiver and a single, but I've done that before without any issues



Yeah, I think that number is related to the size, 1 v/s 5. Everything else looks legit to me, but I'm not that adept at reading formulas.


----------



## Jmayspaint

Looking at that photo now,










I think I'm seeing a difference in color between the dots on the cans. Partially a shadow maybe, but it corresponds to the variation I saw on the pickets. 

Great, Another lesson in "Always box the freaking paint" is just what I need. 

I'm blaming this on my former main BM supplier for spoiling me with consistent colors 

When I used to shop at lowes often, I got in the habit of making them check the color of every can before leaving the store. Too many mistakes if you just take their word for it. 

Complacency I guess.


----------



## CApainter

DL - Phtalo green
EL- Phtalo blue
KXL- Titanium white
LL - Raw Umber

It looks like the gallon is missing the EL- Phtalo blue, which was added to the five. Or is the 384th a smaller measure?


----------



## CApainter

I'm thinking one of the containers had too much titanium white.


----------



## ReNt A PaInTeR

Was the color on the 5 lighter than the gallon?


----------



## Seth The Painter

Did the paint look consistent when you poured it in the 5? Whenever I go to a different paint Store then I normally do I always check when boxing them together. Those guys at home cheapo don't know what they are doing. I hate behr but I have to be honest, this looks like human error at the paint store. Take it back see what they can do for you.


----------



## Jmayspaint

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> Was the color on the 5 lighter than the gallon?



Yes. The lighter color/lower sheen was straight out of the 5. The darker color was the single added to three left in the 5. 

I don't know which one was the miss tint, because I never had any color specs. The HO just said use this. 

I think they were feeling burned from the Arbor Coat failure. Somebody sold them that job the first time for a high price talking up Arbor Coat. When it went all to sh!t in a hurry. they at least partially blamed the product. 

This time the guy was going to pick the product himself, lol.


----------



## journeymanPainter

PaintersUnite said:


> Ok, read four of your posts. Problem is, they lack details. IE: BEHR product? sheen used? sheen painted over? prep?
> 
> Here is what puzzles me about the BEHR haters - BEHR is almost always referred to as a *one produc*t, *one can of paint* brand. If a painter can not be specific with product details, I think it is safe to assume they are not detail oriented across the board. I can only imagination the lack of detail, they overlook during the course of their work. Really.
> 
> But out of curiosity, which can of BEHR paint product did you use?
> I have numbered them 1 thru 3 to make it easy.
> Sorry, not meant to offend, just breaking them balz for you.


Patched walls
Sanded patches
Sanded walls with 150 grit sanding head
Dusted walls and dust off of tape on chair rail
Rolled my first coat
Etc

It's was Behr premium plus eggshell enamel. 

Comparing the white to the grey the grey was definitely better (still took to long to dry) but comparing them to the paint I usually use it wasn't an enjoyable experience and makes me not want to use it again


----------



## Seth The Painter

Jmayspaint said:


> Yes. The lighter color/lower sheen was straight out of the 5. The darker color was the single added to three left in the 5.
> 
> I don't know which one was the miss tint, because I never had any color specs. The HO just said use this.
> 
> I think they were feeling burned from the Arbor Coat failure. Somebody sold them that job the first time for a high price talking up Arbor Coat. When it went all to sh!t in a hurry. they at least partially blamed the product.
> 
> This time the guy was going to pick the product himself, lol.


I use arbor coat all the time it's awsome. The problem doesn't lie in the product. The problem is the work that was performed.


----------



## slinger58

Seth The Painter said:


> Did the paint look consistent when you poured it in the 5? Whenever I go to a different paint Store then I normally do I always check when boxing them together. Those guys at home cheapo don't know what they are doing. I hate behr but I have to be honest, this looks like human error at the paint store. Take it back see what they can do for you.


Surely you jest. The guy that mixed that paint is probably now employed at Enterprise Car Rentals. :yes:


----------



## ReNt A PaInTeR

Jmayspaint said:


> Yes. The lighter color/lower sheen was straight out of the 5. The darker color was the single added to three left in the 5.
> 
> I don't know which one was the miss tint, because I never had any color specs. The HO just said use this.
> 
> I think they were feeling burned from the Arbor Coat failure. Somebody sold them that job the first time for a high price talking up Arbor Coat. When it went all to sh!t in a hurry. they at least partially blamed the product.
> 
> This time the guy was going to pick the product himself, lol.


What do you mean by mistint? You/They bought mistints from HD and then you got more paint based on what the label said?


----------



## Jmayspaint

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> What do you mean by mistint? You/They bought mistints from HD and then you got more paint based on what the label said?



Na man, I just meant that apparently the 5 or the 1 was screwed up. If they were supposed to be the the same product and color, they clearly weren't. 

Something was a miss tint whether it's apparent from the formula or not.

Edit: I suppose the customer could have bought a miss tint 5 without my knowledge since this was a customer supplied product. I doubt it though, the last thing this guy seems to be is stingy. I guessed that they were trying to match the green of the roof.


----------



## ReNt A PaInTeR

Jmayspaint said:


> Na man, I just meant that apparently the 5 or the 1 was screwed up. If they were supposed to be the the same product and color, they clearly weren't.
> 
> Something was a miss tint whether it's apparent from the formula or not.


Ohh ok. Formula is a little off I think. Perhaps one the Paintstore guys can chime in and let us know.


----------



## Jmayspaint

Seth The Painter said:


> I use arbor coat all the time it's awsome. The problem doesn't lie in the product. The problem is the work that was performed.



Yeah, I haven't used Arbor Coat on horizontals myself, but have seen some decks done by competitors with it that have done really well. Don't think it was a product failure in this case.


----------



## PACman

journeymanPainter said:


> No, no cat urine. Lots of dog hair though.
> 
> The white did have a very off putting smell, the grey didn't (sane product different bases)



? Quality control issues? YUUUUUUP!


----------



## PACman

Jmayspaint said:


> I was rather excited this morning to dig into some deep base exterior satin Behr plus ultra. It went on thick, and had great wet hide. At first I thought I was going to get away with two coats dark green over white, but it didn't quite cover all the way and I had to do a third. Didn't flow out that great, but not too terrible either. Overall a very hum drum experience, not too much different than the dark green Resilience I used last week minus the weird color flashing.
> 
> The rest of the day though, proved to be more exciting.
> 
> To tell this story I'll have to admit to some laziness on my part. I had six gallons of solid stain, or rather All in One Weather Proofing stain & sealer, to apply to the pickets and handrails, two coats. Rather than box the five and the one together, I started spraying out of the five and finished the pickets on one whole side of the house yesterday.
> 
> I was pretty impressed with the stain. It seemed to penetrate well, with good color saturation, and dried to a matte finish after two coats. Reminded me of how Zar solid stain does and looks, except not oil modified of course.
> 
> This morning I mixed the extra gallon with the three left in the five and started at the corner I had stopped at yesterday. My thinking was if the extra gallon was a little different color it would be diluted by the three gallons already in the five, and I was painting corner to corner sections anyway, so shouldn't matter much.
> 
> When the first sets started to dry, it was clearly a very different color. Ok, that's not too surprising really. I should have boxed it and I just got busted being lazy. The difference was a lot more than what I would consider acceptable variances, but still basically my fault.
> 
> The real surprise though was that the sheen was also radically different. Rather than the soaked in, matte film I had on the first sets, this looked like a satin, or even semi gloss paint. Didn't penetrate nearly as well and dried quite shiny.
> 
> Here's the corner I was planning on making the transition at,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At first I thought I had done something really stupid like poured the satin house paint into the five on accident. That wasn't the case though, the five and the one we're exactly the same product, base, and color.
> 
> I understand the color difference, but how in the world did it go from a dull matte to almost semi gloss?
> 
> I took this pic at the end of the day to show how much sheen the dried film of the second batch had
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the formulas for the 5 and the 1,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can one of you paint store guys tell me if there is something on these labels I'm not seeing that could explain this? Again, the cans, base numbers, and color name were exactly the same.
> 
> The sad thing is, I didn't really even need the extra gallon. The 5 would have been plenty to do the job, I just mixed it in to make sure I had plenty.


Could it be a quality control issue? YUUUUUUUUUUUUUP!

There is no way that anything that one of the Home depot salesclucks could have done to effect the sheen. And why is a stain satin to semi-gloss anyway? satin maybe on a solid deck stain. But there is obviously a product quality issue here.

They'll never admit to it though. Maybe you can get some more stain out of them. But as usual, you'll be applying it on your nickel. I understand and appreciate painters that like to try new products and see how they work, but getting Behr to work at an acceptable level and having to deal with their quality control issues is a well known problem. And unfortunately, now it is going to cost you money in lost labor.

The risk is too high, and that is why i am pretty much anti-behr as is almost everyone else on this forum. It just costs too much money and time to get a good result using the behr product lines. Even if the end consumer insists on using it.


----------



## PACman

PaintersUnite said:


> Ok, read four of your posts. Problem is, they lack details. IE: BEHR product? sheen used? sheen painted over? prep?
> 
> Here is what puzzles me about the BEHR haters - BEHR is almost always referred to as a *one produc*t, *one can of paint* brand. If a painter can not be specific with product details, I think it is safe to assume they are not detail oriented across the board. I can only imagination the lack of detail, they overlook during the course of their work. Really.
> 
> But out of curiosity, which can of BEHR paint product did you use?
> I have numbered them 1 thru 3 to make it easy.
> Sorry, not meant to offend, just breaking them balz for you.


Dude, I can't read numbers! You should have used different colored cans!


----------



## PACman

journeymanPainter said:


> The number at the bottom of the label don't match. Could be because it's a fiver and a single, but I've done that before without any issues


The number on the bottom just identifies the base and/or size in their computer.


----------



## PACman

Jmayspaint said:


> Looking at that photo now,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think I'm seeing a difference in color between the dots on the cans. Partially a shadow maybe, but it corresponds to the variation I saw on the pickets.
> 
> Great, Another lesson in "Always box the freaking paint" is just what I need.
> 
> I'm blaming this on my former main BM supplier for spoiling me with consistent colors
> 
> When I used to shop at lowes often, I got in the habit of making them check the color of every can before leaving the store. Too many mistakes if you just take their word for it.
> 
> Complacency I guess.


I check the color of every can by dotting a color standard taken form either the first can i matched or just one of the cans if it is a computer formula. Then i take a dot of every can and test it next to that standard to make sure it matches.
Then i take that standard and file it under the customers name and/or job name for future reference, as well as storing every color i make in the computer under the customers name. I consider this to be the minimum requirement for color matching/retention.
But, you sure can save a bunch of money buying from Home depot and using Behr!


----------



## PACman

CApainter said:


> DL - Phtalo green
> EL- Phtalo blue
> KXL- Titanium white
> LL - Raw Umber
> 
> It looks like the gallon is missing the EL- Phtalo blue, which was added to the five. Or is the 384th a smaller measure?


384th is just a smaller increment. as far as I can tell the formulae match. But i only do my best maths if i am getting paid for it.


----------



## PACman

check the base they actually used on the five and the gallon. I'm betting that one is a mid tone base (the gallon) and one is a pastel/white base (the five).
just a hunch based on thirty years of dealing with those dolts.


----------



## DrakeB

Jmayspaint said:


> Yeah, I haven't used Arbor Coat on horizontals myself, but have seen some decks done by competitors with it that have done really well. Don't think it was a product failure in this case.


Got a job going out for Arborcoat siding today. Color is a modified AF-115 Lodge to match a previous color. I'll let you guys know what my painter thinks after he's used it, if I think of it. This is only my second time selling Arborcoat for siding (it's a new product for us) and the other crew were out-of-towners. Also did a few decks with it this season as a trial for my deck guys. Looking forward to seeing how it holds up, comparatively.


----------



## DrakeB

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> Ohh ok. Formula is a little off I think. Perhaps one the Paintstore guys can chime in and let us know.


I would, but unfortunately we don't know anything (according to you) and you don't listen to us (according to you), so maybe not...


----------



## Wildbill7145

This is one of the major reasons why I pretty much insist on getting the paint myself. The girls at the paint shop I use know that I pretty much watch every single part of the mixing process. On top of that, they're pretty much the most awesome crew I've dealt with.

Last week I told a customer (total nutbar, I held off calling her back for weeks because I hate dealing with her) that I wasn't going to be using the paint she was trying to supply me with. I've told her several times that I use the particular paint I use for a reason, and I don't trust the shop she got it from for many reasons. Now she gets to eat the cost of the stuff she bought and look at the can forever.


----------



## PACman

DrakeB said:


> I would, but unfortunately we don't know anything (according to you) and you don't listen to us (according to you), so maybe not...


And maths are hard!


----------



## DrakeB

Maths aren't terribly hard if you want to check it yourself.

The top row going across is ounces. Multiple ounces on the singles by five. Write down the number.

The bottom row is 384ths of an ounce. Take that number, divide it by 384, and then multiply it by five. That gives you an answer in ounces. Add the ounces to the original number you wrote down for the column. You can convert the decimal back to 384ths if you want, but it should be easy to see if it looks like it's close.

Of course, this only tells you if the computer formula is right. The tint machine could have run out of colorant mid-tint on one and messed something up, or the peon could have tried to shoot the five formula into the single, etc. It's hard to know for sure since you weren't there.

You can tell they weren't mistints the customer purchased. They were both mixed the same day two months ago (7/20/15). The long number on the bottom not matching is probably fine- I'd guess from looking at it that that's a batch number.

Could also be a bad batch of colorant or paint. Especially given the massive sheen difference and substantial color difference, this seems plausible. You sometimes get lots more sheen when you add too much colorant, but since the formulas are the same (per gallon) you shouldn't be noticing a difference between them.


Oh, and before I forget~ box your paints


----------



## PACman

DrakeB said:


> Maths aren't terribly hard if you want to check it yourself.
> 
> The top row going across is ounces. Multiple ounces on the singles by five. Write down the number.
> 
> The bottom row is 384ths of an ounce. Take that number, divide it by 384, and then multiply it by five. That gives you an answer in ounces. Add the ounces to the original number you wrote down for the column. You can convert the decimal back to 384ths if you want, but it should be easy to see if it looks like it's close.
> 
> Of course, this only tells you if the computer formula is right. The tint machine could have run out of colorant mid-tint on one and messed something up, or the peon could have tried to shoot the five formula into the single, etc. It's hard to know for sure since you weren't there.
> 
> You can tell they weren't mistints the customer purchased. They were both mixed the same day two months ago (7/20/15). The long number on the bottom not matching is probably fine- I'd guess from looking at it that that's a batch number.
> 
> Could also be a bad batch of colorant or paint. Especially given the massive sheen difference and substantial color difference, this seems plausible. You sometimes get lots more sheen when you add too much colorant, but since the formulas are the same (per gallon) you shouldn't be noticing a difference between them.
> 
> 
> Oh, and before I forget~ box your paints


Why did you do that for free? That's what the people at Home depot are getting paid to do.

And YUUUUUUUUUP! Quality control! Non-existent. Gotta keep those prices DOWN!

And don't forget, you are only there to stock shelves and ring up customers so GET GOING!


----------



## journeymanPainter

DrakeB said:


> Got a job going out for Arborcoat siding today. Color is a modified AF-115 Lodge to match a previous color. I'll let you guys know what my painter thinks after he's used it, if I think of it. This is only my second time selling Arborcoat for siding (it's a new product for us) and the other crew were out-of-towners. Also did a few decks with it this season as a trial for my deck guys. Looking forward to seeing how it holds up, comparatively.


My review is very limited, but good. 

A few years ago I painted a house with rough cedar, cedar shake, and hardi. Application was fine (especially cause it was friggin hot) I went past the house a few weeks ago and still looks good. 

Did a deck repair around the same time. The only people that could match the stain was Benny Moore (perfectly I might add). I then top coated with a Sikkens alkyd. Don't know how it's lasted, etc but the finish was pretty nice.


----------



## ReNt A PaInTeR

DrakeB said:


> I would, but unfortunately we don't know anything (according to you) and you don't listen to us (according to you), so maybe not...


LMFAO!! Just be patient. Butthurt will be covered by Obamacare someday. :lol:


----------



## CApainter

Wow! There was definitely something else going on other than the formula. And as much as I hate boxing paint, I always do it to avoid problems like this. It also gives you the opportunity to quickly catch a mis tint. I'm still not certain which container was lighter. Was it the five or the gallon?


----------



## Wildbill7145

Albeit I still haven't gone to get my eyes checked (stupid, stubborn, going next week), but it looks obvious to me that the fiver looks much lighter than the gallon can. Could be the shadowing I guess.


----------



## CApainter

Wildbill7145 said:


> Albeit I still haven't gone to get my eyes checked (stupid, stubborn, going next week), but it looks obvious to me that the fiver looks much lighter than the gallon can. Could be the shadowing I guess.


Yea. I believe the five is lighter. I think Jay mentioned he shot straight out of the five first, then added the gallon can later. Even though he didn't need it. What was his IQ again? hee hee.


----------



## ReNt A PaInTeR

CApainter said:


> Yea. I believe the five is lighter. I think Jay mentioned he shot straight out of the five first, then added the gallon can later. Even though he didn't need it. What was his IQ again? hee hee.


He scored 122 I think. :whistling2:


----------



## CApainter

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> He scored 122 I think. :whistling2:


Hey now! , I took it again and scored like a 130. But I didn't want to say anything until someone poked fun at the intellectually challenged. I'm effin humble like that


----------



## DrakeB

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> LMFAO!! Just be patient. Butthurt will be covered by Obamacare someday. :lol:


I'm just saying, you can't have your cake and eat it, too. Either be a dick to me, or ask me for help, but don't do both. Not gonna lose any sleep either way, I just have an appreciation for consistency.


----------



## PaintersUnite

journeymanPainter said:


> Let's kick this dead horse, and revive this attack thread.
> 
> Repeat customer called me in to do some odds and sods for him, and paint a nursery(in Behr). White over a very light yellowy cream. *4 cuts and 3 rolls*. Took 3 hours for the first coat to set up. Worst coverage I've ever had, that's saying a lot too cause I've had to do miles of red and yellow pipe (before the red and yellow bases )


Just from this statement alone, *"4 cuts and 3 rolls", *I can tell that you need to get more experience painting under your belt. If it is done properly, *cutting in with a brush, always goes on thicker* than rolling. So the fact that you had to *cut in more than you had to roll*, tells me a lot about your technique. You are (as Oden puts it), scrubbing the paint on with the brush. So it's not the paint, it's that painter.


----------



## lilpaintchic

I just can't keep it to myself, a little late to the party though i suspect......LOLOL

Behr is GREAT! you can use it on EVERYTHING! And you never even have to prime because the PVA primer they put in it makes it self priming. It drags out really well and leaves a beautiful texture on all surfaces (especially a smooth one). The friendly and very knowledgeable paint folks at home depot always do such a great job on matching colors for me.(I only had to show him how to put some black tint in my 5er of oil based primer once... didn't know how to remove the seal under the screw on cap. That's ok, he was a quick learner when I came back 20 minutes later and he was still on the phone with some manager trying to figure out how to open it.....LOLOL) Last time it only took them 6.5 hours to get 2 colors close enough to make it work! RECORD TIME! I just can't say enough great things about Behr. I could go on, but I'll just say that they are rated #1 in my book for sure!


----------



## CApainter

These BEHR threads are like a microcosm of the larger religious debates that take place across the globe. The level of indignation is similar to that between the atheists and theologians, or between believers from different faiths. Evidence and anecdotes are wielded like divine weapons of truth, while most just continue about there ways with indifference and little concern.

Meanwhile, all the homeowner is concerned about is that the tiny ding near the crown molding, ten feet up, is repaired, and that you refrain from using their bathroom.


----------



## Wildbill7145

CApainter said:


> you refrain from using their bathroom.


I will never agree that this is a normal thing. What goes in must go out.

This could be the alternative. Tho. Not sure if you US folks heard about this. Guy peed in a coffee cup at a customers house. He was running for election up here! (key word being "was")

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/jerry-bance-marketplace-1.3217797


----------



## ReNt A PaInTeR

DrakeB said:


> I'm just saying, you can't have your cake and eat it, too. Either be a dick to me, or ask me for help, but don't do both. Not gonna lose any sleep either way, I just have an appreciation for consistency.


Dude you got butthurt for my response to Pete where the guy behind the counter clearly provided him bad advice to him. Get over it!!

Adding water to paint is what really put you on my **** list.

You love to troll but don't have the thick skin for when someone's says something about guys working behind the counter or related to what you do.

You might as well go cry to the admins and ask them to change your username again or grow some balls and stop being a cry baby.


----------



## Wildbill7145

Well, this thread took an unfortunate turn.


----------



## journeymanPainter

PaintersUnite said:


> Just from this statement alone, *"4 cuts and 3 rolls", *I can tell that you need to get more experience painting under your belt. If it is done properly, *cutting in with a brush, always goes on thicker* than rolling. So the fact that you had to *cut in more than you had to roll*, tells me a lot about your technique. You are (as Oden puts it), scrubbing the paint on with the brush. So it's not the paint, it's that painter.


Whoa, red letters....you must really mean business. 

When using a 15mm sleeve (1/2 nap) the paint goes on fairly thick, and no, brushing isn't thicker than the roll. 

12 years of year round work(I'm 30 btw) 6 of which as a Red Seal painter I think I'm fairly good. 

I stand by my previous statements. It's an okay product. I will never recommend it, I will never warranty it, and I will never put it in my home.


----------



## daArch

What I find interesting is the predictable accusation that it must be these painters fault for not liking Behr, for the product behaving improperly. It's not the product fault that these score of professional painters denigrate this brand, but it's the fault of the painters.

I am reminded of something I listened to on the internet the other day. An internet classic metal podcast was commenting about how a drunken glam rock musician on a youtube rant was blaming his failure on three producers who had phucked him by not supporting him and cheating him out of royalties. It was these three managers'/producers' fault this guy was living in a run down apartment not being able to make a living from his really crappy music. His life was so bad, $35 was a significant amount he donated to a reviewer. (ostentatiously in hopes of a good review, which he didn't get)

The two hosts of this show suggested that PERHAPS if the one guy had the same problem with multiple producers then MAYBE it's the fault of the "musician" and not the producers. 

So I tend to believe what I hear from the many I know to be good professionals when I hear bad things about one brand. I do not blame them for poor performance, but the product.


----------



## chrisn

Wildbill7145 said:


> Well, this thread took an unfortunate turn.


Yea, well, get used to it


----------



## chrisn

[QUOTE=PaintersUnite;945449]Just from this statement alone, *"4 cuts and 3 rolls", *I can tell that you need to get more experience painting under your belt. If it is done properly, *cutting in with a brush, always goes on thicker* than rolling. So the fact that you had to *cut in more than you had to roll*, tells me a lot about your technique. You are (as Oden puts it), scrubbing the paint on with the brush. So it's not the paint, it's that painter.
[/QUOTE]

:laughing::laughing::laughing:


----------



## Seth The Painter

journeymanPainter said:


> Whoa, red letters....you must really mean business.
> 
> When using a 15mm sleeve (1/2 nap) the paint goes on fairly thick, and no, brushing isn't thicker than the roll.
> 
> 12 years of year round work(I'm 30 btw) 6 of which as a Red Seal painter I think I'm fairly good.
> 
> I stand by my previous statements. It's an okay product. I will never recommend it, I will never warranty it, and I will never put it in my home.


Behr sucks any experienced painter knows that. Telling the next man he needs more experience???? That is uncalled for especially when your speaking to a guy like journeyman. 

Rolling definately goes on thicker than brushing. Idk wth planet dude is on. He must be smoking that good shyt. Maybe someone else needs more experience under his belt. Using resilience in your best ever paint job where 3 sherwin reps came???? Resilience really now.


----------



## Seth The Painter

PaintersUnite said:


> Just from this statement alone, *"4 cuts and 3 rolls", *I can tell that you need to get more experience painting under your belt. If it is done properly, *cutting in with a brush, always goes on thicker* than rolling. So the fact that you had to *cut in more than you had to roll*, tells me a lot about your technique. You are (as Oden puts it), scrubbing the paint on with the brush. So it's not the paint, it's that painter.


You probably used behr in that long a$$ paint job your still on. That's why it took so long.


----------



## journeymanPainter

Seth The Painter said:


> Behr sucks any experienced painter knows that. Telling the next man he needs more experience???? That is uncalled for especially when your speaking to a guy like journeyman.
> 
> Rolling definately goes on thicker than brushing. Idk wth planet dude is on. He must be smoking that good shyt. Maybe someone else needs more experience under his belt. Using resilience in your best ever paint job where 3 sherwin reps came???? Resilience really now.


Just because I passed an exam doesn't make me the best, or most knowledgeable. But it does make me a pretty damn good applicator


----------



## PaintersUnite

journeymanPainter said:


> Just because I passed an exam doesn't make me the best, or most knowledgeable. But it does make me a pretty damn good applicator


Journeyman, I am sure you are a decent painter. I really don't want to offend you.

I have a story, I had a 40 y/o, 15 year experienced painter working for me, who appeared in several of my BEHR paint videos. You may have watched him rolling out walls? One thing he did that I noticed, was scrub the paint on with the brush and stretch the paint out with the roller. I tried several times to teach him my methods to apply the paint more generously for better coverage. His response to my criticism was not well received. It made him defensive. He says, _"I have 15 years experience, I've painted million dollar homes", "when I'm done, the customers always say, nice job Carlo". _So I gave up on teaching the guy.

In the photos attached, photo #1 is Carlos (1) coat cut in, and photo #2 is my (1) coat cut in. Can you see a big difference? My (1) coat was brushed and looks like TWO! 

BTW - this is not the same corner.


----------



## PaintersUnite

Seth The Painter said:


> You probably used behr in that long a$$ paint job your still on. That's why it took so long.


Are you talking about the $40,000 paint job?
How many houses have you been paid 40k to do? 

BTW - here is the left over paint from that job.


----------



## journeymanPainter

PaintersUnite said:


> Journeyman, I am sure you are a decent painter. I really don't want to offend you.
> 
> I have a story, I had a 40 y/o, 15 year experienced painter working for me, who appeared in several of my BEHR paint videos. You may have watched him rolling out walls? One thing he did that I noticed, was scrub the paint on with the brush and stretch the paint out with the roller. I tried several times to teach him my methods to apply the paint more generously for better coverage. His response to my criticism was not well received. It made him defensive. He says, _"I have 15 years experience, I've painted million dollar homes", "when I'm done, the customers always say, nice job Carlo". _So I gave up on teaching the guy.
> 
> In the photos attached, photo #1 is Carlos (1) coat cut in, and photo #2 is my (1) coat cut in. Can you see a big difference? My (1) coat was brushed and looks like TWO!
> 
> BTW - this is not the same corner.


Your corner looks rolled. 

As for my feelings, I have 2, and I doubt anyone is low enough to jump on them. 

Ego? Maybe, but I try not to have one. Am I the best? Hells no, but I'm pretty damn good


----------



## PaintersUnite

journeymanPainter said:


> Your corner looks rolled.
> 
> As for my feelings, I have 2, and I doubt anyone is low enough to jump on them.
> 
> Ego? Maybe, but I try not to have one. Am I the best? Hells no, but I'm pretty damn good


I don't roll corners. I assure you, I did it with a 2 1/2 angled Corona. Are you going to make me cut in a corner on video for you? I will if you need proof. 

Btw - I am sure you are a pretty good painter. But add 23 years to your 12 years experience, and that is where I am. You will be there someday, we all get old. Don't rush it though.

My post isn't about ego, and I am sorry if i offended you, you're a good dude!


----------



## daArch

journeymanPainter said:


> Your corner looks rolled.
> 
> As for my feelings, I have 2, and I doubt anyone is low enough to jump on them.
> 
> Ego? Maybe, but I try not to have one. Am I the best? Hells no, but I'm pretty damn good


nothin the matter with a little ego, it equals pride.

INFLATED ego is the bane.


----------



## Seth The Painter

PaintersUnite said:


> Are you talking about the $40,000 paint job?
> How many houses have you been paid 40k to do?
> 
> BTW - here is the left over paint from that job.


I do about 6 or 7 of those a year in one of the best markets in the world my friend you've got the wrong guy. Did you see the videos and pics I've posted here? 

My last new construction was almost double that and it took me twice less time. 

My next one is 16000 sq ft. Houses range from 5 million to 30 million. Next question????


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## Seth The Painter

Corner is definitely rolled. BTW those sherwin products are not much better than behr imo. Especially if it's my best painting project of my career. You wouldn't catch me ever ever ever putting resilience or duration in my big jobs. Imo it's a waste of time. Use quality products it will save you time. This way it don't take so long to finish.


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## journeymanPainter

The paint itself was more than $40,000


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## Seth The Painter

Nice was this a dry fall job? This reminds me of my union days.


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## Seth The Painter

lilpaintchic said:


> I just can't keep it to myself, a little late to the party though i suspect......LOLOL
> 
> Behr is GREAT! you can use it on EVERYTHING! And you never even have to prime because the PVA primer they put in it makes it self priming. It drags out really well and leaves a beautiful texture on all surfaces (especially a smooth one). The friendly and very knowledgeable paint folks at home depot always do such a great job on matching colors for me.(I only had to show him how to put some black tint in my 5er of oil based primer once... didn't know how to remove the seal under the screw on cap. That's ok, he was a quick learner when I came back 20 minutes later and he was still on the phone with some manager trying to figure out how to open it.....LOLOL) Last time it only took them 6.5 hours to get 2 colors close enough to make it work! RECORD TIME! I just can't say enough great things about Behr. I could go on, but I'll just say that they are rated #1 in my book for sure!


The marquee is even better it covers everything in one? Did you see the commercials? It's unreal.


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## journeymanPainter

Seth The Painter said:


> Nice was this a dry fall job? This reminds me of my union days.


Waterborne epoxy


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## Seth The Painter

Oh ok very cool


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