# Bidding from blueprints...



## Alex PCI (Jul 26, 2007)

........Is like reading Chinese!!! How is it done??

I throw away about 10 sets of prints a year that are sent to me because I have no idea how to read them and give an accurate price. I don't really need the work but this year I have already received 4 sets and the smallest being a 20,000sq/ft job. Since I prefer commercial work I am thinking of learning how to bid from prints, can someone point me in the right direction.
Links or any info would be great!!

Thanks, Alex


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

We do alot of bidding from prints on large residential new construction. Personally, I dont think its the boondoggle that its made out to be. Alot of it is common sense. You need to be able to locate door and window openings which gives you casing footages, establish ceiling heights to measure wall footages, which also gives you baseboard footages. Of course, none of this matters if you dont know your production rates or unit costs. 

It is important to ask alot of questions and take alot of notes. Having a solid contract that includes exclusions and clearly states that the price was generated from this set of plans drawn by this architect on this date helps. The sets of prints that I go through are highlighted in different colors for different elements, and marked up and dog-eared. When I am done with them, my 2 year old takes them to color on.


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> When I am done with them, my 2 year old takes them to color on.


Ahhh.... Good Idea! I have a half-a-dozen or so sitting around here, the kids would love to color on them! nice! And thanks for a good reason to post my 250th post. :thumbup:

J


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Seriously, one good set of plans keeps you from buying about 100 coloring books! Plus, I think it is subliminally preparing him to be my estimator someday~!


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## Housepainter (Jan 6, 2008)

Just pretend you are walking through a house or commercial building. Visualize the room. What are the sizes of the area. Are their anything special like fireplaces, special features, etc. The rest is fairly standard estimators math. Do one room at a time for the interior, then move to the exterior doing the same. :thumbup:


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## Brian (Apr 10, 2007)

I bid a fair number of jobs off prints. Most have a finish schedule, though I've found that the finish schedule is seldom complete. But it gives a good starting point.

I will usually spend 20 to 30 minutes just looking at the pages that are relevant to painting before I begin taking any notes. By then I have a pretty good idea of what surfaces will be painted/ stained. I then prepare a form similar to what I would use on a repaint.

Rather than actually walking the job, I just walk the print, room by room. It's the same basic process, only the manner in which we get the measurements differs.

As Scott said, be very careful to detail what is and is not included. That way if you missed something, you aren't locked in. 

Brian Phillips


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Brian said:


> pages that are relevant to painting
> Brian Phillips


This is the part that can be confusing to the beginner. There are dozens of pages that deal with concrete, framing, roof details. Its an exercise in reading and eliminating the irrelevant information. 

Paint schedules are often basic and incomplete. The white on white that you priced can change in a hurry when the house comes out of the ground. The latex trim paint can turn to oil. The closets can be loaded up with MDF shelving, and suddenly there are lots of builtins. An inexperienced painter will absorb upgrades and take a big fat bath. 

If you get the job, look for changes each day and submit them in writing prior to doing the work. 

If you get the job and you were low bidder, look extra hard each day.


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## Kennedy (Apr 18, 2007)

Buy a scale ruler (triangular architect's rule). Flip the ruler to the scale shown on the print and measure away.


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## GMack (Jan 18, 2008)

Here's some advice from advanced beginner to beginner: You really have to dig right into these things. Don't be intimidated. Just grab a ruler, a calculator, a pad of paper and go to work. Get all your basic measurements, count windows, doors, etc and write down you questions. Call and get them answered. Do some basic math and write down a number. As Scott says, make sure you have it in writing which prints your number is based on.


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## Alex PCI (Jul 26, 2007)

so even on 50,000sq/ft buildings with 100's of doors and halls you measure each one? It seems easy on houses but the prints I have seem like it would take days to measure. Do your estimates list every room, door and hall or do you guys just put the amount of sq/ft to paint on paper? Figuring out how much I need to charge is not a problem for me, its figuring out the amount of work I need to charge for
Thanks for all the help guys


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Alex PCI said:


> so even on 50,000sq/ft buildings with 100's of doors and halls you measure each one? It seems easy on houses but the prints I have seem like it would take days to measure. Do your estimates list every room, door and hall or do you just put the amount of sq/ft to paint on paper?
> Thanks for all the help guys


Often the prints are broken into sections. You have two sets of figures, one that is internal and includes itemization of units and footages, and the other is what you present, packaged in the most practical way, which is usually by sections.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Start off bidding smaller projects off prints. You could take a class or hire a pro to do your takeoffs for larger ones. Could save you thousands.


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

GMack said:


> Here's some advice from advanced beginner to beginner: You really have to dig right into these things. Don't be intimidated. Just grab a ruler, a calculator, a pad of paper and go to work. Get all your basic measurements, count windows, doors, etc and write down you questions. Call and get them answered. Do some basic math and write down a number. As Scott says, make sure you have it in writing which prints your number is based on.


That's how I had to begin. Couldn't afford a class and wanted the experience and the jobs, just dug in and measured away. Good call GMack! :thumbsup:


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## Housepainter (Jan 6, 2008)

Alex PCI said:


> so even on 50,000sq/ft buildings with 100's of doors and halls you measure each one? It seems easy on houses but the prints I have seem like it would take days to measure. Do your estimates list every room, door and hall or do you guys just put the amount of sq/ft to paint on paper? Figuring out how much I need to charge is not a problem for me, its figuring out the amount of work I need to charge for
> Thanks for all the help guys



Yep...:yes:

Take it room/ area by area. 
I usually start at one corner of the print and work clock-wise back to that corner. I would handle halls as a separate area. if it is multiple stories do this for each floor.
You can handle the doors in a couple of was (probably more) 

I usually count them by sides. for example say a room has two exterior doors that enter into a hall. For that room I would count it as two sides. When I figure the hall I would count that as two door sides for the hall.
The second alternative is to just count and add the door and do this as a total number of doors.:blink:

OH the amount of work you want to charge for is "ALL" of it. That is how you stay in the Green:thumbup:


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

The positive side to it is that often the sum of the parts turns out to be greater than you would expect when looking at the whole. 

The way I look at it, you would expect to pay about, say, $30,000 for a nice new truck. Now, price out individually each part, accessory and component that it would take to assemble that truck and you will end up with a much higher number, for a pile of parts. 

If they give you a set of prints, give them a pile of parts.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Alex

For more formal training, there are also options like this:


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## Dlberryman (May 17, 2008)

Does anyone have a Take-Off form they would like to post, listing all items to look for on blueprints with lines for notes and figures?


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