# client wants black door on south facing wall



## paddydaddy (Sep 29, 2010)

High end client had a brand new fir door made to replace the existing one. Nice looking door...
Wants door to match all the window trim on the outside, which has been painted with a black satin latex. yikes!
Suggestions from a benny moore rep was prime with oil and paint with Aura, with the caveat that this is a stop gap measure as well. I dont feel that great about this suggestion.
Other was to use a solid wood stain (ie flood), but aesthetically this would blow. I cant convince the client to do anything but black on this door, which gets some serious sun action. He is flexible with sheen and product, just not color! 
Any suggestions?


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Just give him what he wants, anything will last two years.


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## paddydaddy (Sep 29, 2010)

johnpaint said:


> Just give him what he wants, anything will last two years.


true dat...but
my concern is not so much the paint finish, but splitting the frames with the intense heat generated.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Why not use an ebony stain and a clear coat over it? You can stain the door to where it looks "painted" almost solid, use a good clear coat, and should hold up well.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I do not know about that. I think clear coats over stain are of much greater problems than paint over the long haul on exteriors. Especially with southern exposure. Heat absorbtion would not be much different than a dark ebony stain in the end is my guess.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

NCPaint1 said:


> Why not use an ebony stain and a clear coat over it? You can stain the door to where it looks "painted" almost solid, use a good clear coat, and should hold up well.


 This, I hate agreeing with him all the time but his suggestions are usually spot on.:thumbsup:


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

DeanV said:


> I do not know about that. I think clear coats over stain are of much greater problems than paint over the long haul on exteriors. Especially with southern exposure. Heat absorbtion would not be much different than a dark ebony stain in the end is my guess.


True, but with a good breathable clear coat ( sighs ) like Sikkens Door and Window, it should have enough flex even getting beat up by the sun. Its going to be maintenance any route you take. You can always work out a maintenance schedule with your customer, and guarantee yourself some repeat business, however small it may be :thumbup:


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## Retired (Jul 27, 2010)

Two coats of alkyd primer and two coats of black boat paint. Three coats of primer is even better on fir, sanding between coats.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> Why not use an ebony stain and a clear coat over it? You can stain the door to where it looks "painted" almost solid, use a good clear coat, and should hold up well.


This solution would be better than paint?


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

look, you don't really have many choices here. Just cover your ass and tell them that you don't guarantee any of it. Or just don't do it if you're scared of the possible bad name recognition if it goes haywire.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> This solution would be better than paint?


 Than latex? Yes, and its not more work counting coats.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Man this got more hits than I would have thought. I say paint it!


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

johnpaint said:


> Man this got more hits than I would have thought. I say paint it!


 
Its a _door.... _paint that puppy!

Just tell them what to expect and you should be good.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Its a _door.... _paint that puppy!
> 
> Just tell them what to expect and you should be good.


thats what i said. :whistling2:


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## Retired (Jul 27, 2010)

Would it be OK to use a thin coat of Behr latex? 

Applying an alkyd clearcoat over a black dyestain might cause what looks like an amine blush. Same thing when using the same sequence in interiors.


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## paddydaddy (Sep 29, 2010)

johnpaint said:


> Man this got more hits than I would have thought. I say paint it!


Holy mole! That's the most replies in the shortest amount of time on any forum I've ever been on. I guess that laquer thinner makes us all a little more talkative... 
in the name of flogging a dead horse:
for those of you in the "paint that door!" camp, I'm hearing alkyd primer (a couple of passes at least) and...[will it be an advantage to go marine? do I even need to go oil?]


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

paddydaddy said:


> Holy mole! That's the most replies in the shortest amount of time on any forum I've ever been on. I guess that laquer thinner makes us all a little more talkative...
> in the name of flogging a dead horse:
> for those of you in the "paint that door!" camp, I'm hearing alkyd primer (a couple of passes at least) and...[will it be an advantage to go marine? do I even need to go oil?]


Long oil for shure.......


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## Faron79 (Dec 11, 2007)

*Since it's "higher-end" work...*

Haul-out/order some FPE Hollandlac Gloss or Satin Oil.
(from a TECHNICAL-only standpoint, the glossier the better.)

Or, for Latex, use their Eurolux Exterior Housepaint in Black.

This stuff is unreal-good! Avg. ~ $45/qt. delivered UPS.
http://http://finepaintsofeurope.com/eurolux_housepaint.aspx

DEAD serious here. They/you won't be disappointed.

Faron


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## Retired (Jul 27, 2010)

Faron79 said:


> Haul-out/order some FPE Hollandlac Gloss or Satin Oil.
> (from a TECHNICAL-only standpoint, the glossier the better.)
> 
> Or, for Latex, use their Eurolux Exterior Housepaint in Black.
> ...


Yep.. Good stuff. Some Benny Moore dealers carry the FPE paints. I'm thinking do a first class job on that door (BTW gloss black is very popular in UK and Europe) and maybe get the job of a repaint on the window sash too. 

Notice that FPE has a "Swedish Putty" they sell as a step in the filling process for new wood when using thier paints. IMO three coats of an alkyd primer undercoater sanded would be fine on fir.


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## Tonyg (Dec 9, 2007)

Retired said:


> Two coats of alkyd primer and two coats of black boat paint. Three coats of primer is even better on fir, sanding between coats.


What's the purpose of multiple coats of primer?


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Its a _door.... _paint that puppy!
> 
> Just tell them what to expect and you should be good.


Word. And better yet, write out what you expect to happen, and make them sign off on it.


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## Retired (Jul 27, 2010)

Tonyg said:


> What's the purpose of multiple coats of primer?


The suggestion was to use an alkyd primer/undercoater and sanding back between coats. The first coat will raise the grain and fill some of the new fir. Further coats with the sanding back provide a cushion for the black topcoat or topcoats.

A couple of analogies would be using a clear or pigmented lacquer sanding sealer under either a clear of pigmented lacquer on casework or even walls or what a car painter would do to "fix" a dent that needs, as part of the job to be repainted.

The suggestion was job specific. On a hollow core door in a gas station crapper I would approach the job differently and maybe not at all..


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## Faron79 (Dec 11, 2007)

*a "For sure" on the Swedish-putty"!*

Yeah...that stuff is an ultra-high-build primer, enabling a very smooth surface after sanding it down.
This will lead to the smoothest possible base, so the new FPE topcoats will look baby's-butt smooth.

Pretty much a promise here...use this stuff. Your client will be falling all over you. I am NOT kidding in the least.

You MAY even create a little "niche market" if you can produce results doin' this.

Faron


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

For $200 + for primer and paint they should be..


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## Retired (Jul 27, 2010)

Faron79 said:


> Yeah...that stuff is an ultra-high-build primer, enabling a very smooth surface after sanding it down.
> This will lead to the smoothest possible base, so the new FPE topcoats will look baby's-butt smooth.
> 
> Pretty much a promise here...use this stuff. Your client will be falling all over you. I am NOT kidding in the least.
> ...


Sounds like this door might be brand new and something like Benny Moore #100 alkyd primer would work unless this door has been damaged. The FPE sequence calls for a coat of thier primer first then knifing on the "Swedish Putty." The pitch that Swedish Putty is some big secret voodoo magic is a load. A little looking around and several formulas will pop up probably from Norwegians wanting to get even. Uf Da! 

For little dings a tube of Elmers "Carpenters Wood Filler" should work fine. Applied after the first coat of primer, sanded smooth , followed by the rest of the prime coats works great. 

Some could say to use even auto primer or a lacquer sanding sealer. On an interior door this will work. On a black door on an exterior South face IMO ya need an alkyd that penetrates and bonds with the wood. 

Uf Da?? Roughly translated by my friend Olaf Olsen of Ballard, Washington's "Olaf's Lutefisk and Lefska Taco Bar" means, "S**t Happens.


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## Tonyg (Dec 9, 2007)

Retired said:


> The suggestion was to use an alkyd primer/undercoater and sanding back between coats. The first coat will raise the grain and fill some of the new fir. Further coats with the sanding back provide a cushion for the black topcoat or topcoats.
> 
> A couple of analogies would be using a clear or pigmented lacquer sanding sealer under either a clear of pigmented lacquer on casework or even walls or what a car painter would do to "fix" a dent that needs, as part of the job to be repainted.
> 
> The suggestion was job specific. On a hollow core door in a gas station crapper I would approach the job differently and maybe not at all..


I happen to enjoy looking at those doors often - specially when I forget the paper


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## Retired (Jul 27, 2010)

Tonyg said:


> I happen to enjoy looking at those doors often - specially when I forget the paper


Thats what holes in the stall walls are for, to pass paper. The one's overhead are camera ports.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Just don't tap your foot..


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## Retired (Jul 27, 2010)

straight_lines said:


> Just don't tap your foot..


Some of this can be misconstrued. There is a case pending in the 5th Circuit Court about a troupe of tapdancing midgets who were busted for that at LAX.


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## Tonyg (Dec 9, 2007)

Retired said:


> Some of this can be misconstrued. There is a case pending in the 5th Circuit Court about a troupe of tapdancing midgets who were busted for that at LAX.


If that was LAX they were probably arrested for NOT tapping their feet. 

Gotta love the left coast! :no:


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## paddydaddy (Sep 29, 2010)

Retired said:


> Some of this can be misconstrued. There is a case pending in the 5th Circuit Court about a troupe of tapdancing midgets who were busted for that at LAX.


Maybe I can get some of those midgets to butter there soles with swedish putty and get them to dance on my door...:jester:


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