# Brunschwing & Fills instalation



## Wagteil (Mar 25, 2014)

Hi,
This paper come untrimmed, an I haven't done this before. Is anyone know what will be best way to trim it? On table or double cut on wall? Also, how long needs to folded, I don't have instruction?
http://search.brunschwig.com/Brunschwig-and-Fils-Print-Beige/BR-69551.074-1328/CoverInformation.aspx


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Hopefully Bill will come along and have time to write the book to answer what you are asking. Me? I am not sure why you would be trying to do a job that you don't know how to do 

and have the balls to charge for it.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Wagteil said:


> Hi,
> This paper come untrimmed, an I haven't done this before. Is anyone know what will be best way to trim it? On table or double cut on wall? Also, how long needs to folded, I don't have instruction?
> http://search.brunschwig.com/Brunschwig-and-Fils-Print-Beige/BR-69551.074-1328/CoverInformation.aspx


No instructions? What's with that? Most B&F's have rudimentary instructions packaged with their goods. NOT instructions on how best to trim or how long to book - they expect the professional installer would know that considering the product and the paste being used. That pattern does look like there could be some leeway in the precision of the trims. I have not hung that one. 

Trimming paper is not something one can teach in a few words on the internet. If you have some practice, ability, tools, and understand the nuances, I could give you some hints that could make the particular job go smoother.

That said, I think I have trimmed more B&F's than other papers. Their trim marks are a little further back from the actual trim line which makes double cutting a little easier IF the particular job is best suited for that. 

I've probably table trimmed more B&F's than wet or double cut, but I use TWO absolutely straight 6 foot straight edges on a absolutely FLAT table. And I measure their distance from each other to make sure they are parallel while still staying true to the pattern match. Yes a 1/128" difference DOES matter.

If the job is best for double cutting, do you have a laser lever? Are you lining the walls as most B&F's recommend? What will you be using to pad your cuts?

And another item in most B&F's instructions state, "We recommend that a skilled paper-hanger be employed". By your comment that you haven't done this before, I would infer that perhaps this is above your skill level.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

daArch said:


> No instructions? What's with that? Most B&F's have rudimentary instructions packaged with their goods. NOT instructions on how best to trim or how long to book - they expect the professional installer would know that considering the product and the paste being used. That pattern does look like there could be some leeway in the precision of the trims. I have not hung that one.
> 
> Trimming paper is not something one can teach in a few words on the internet. If you have some practice, ability, tools, and understand the nuances, I could give you some hints that could make the particular job go smoother.
> 
> ...


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Man, you old paperhangers are kinda cranky of late. 

Ya'll been working with sour paste or something? :jester:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

chrisn said:


> I think I already said that.


And I can't agree and reiterate ?  :thumbsup: :jester:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

slinger58 said:


> Man, you old paperhangers are kinda cranky of late.
> 
> Ya'll been working with sour paste or something? :jester:


c'mon, that was the NICE version :yes:


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

daArch said:


> c'mon, that was the NICE version :yes:


Oh, I know ...........believe me, I know. :thumbsup:


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

daArch said:


> No instructions? What's with that? Most B&F's have rudimentary instructions packaged with their goods. NOT instructions on how best to trim or how long to book - they expect the professional installer would know that considering the product and the paste being used. That pattern does look like there could be some leeway in the precision of the trims. I have not hung that one.
> 
> Trimming paper is not something one can teach in a few words on the internet. If you have some practice, ability, tools, and understand the nuances, I could give you some hints that could make the particular job go smoother.
> 
> ...


Your tip of using two parallel straight edges is a real jewel. I'm curious about a couple of things. What would you estimate the time it takes to properly trim the material does to your production rate? (i.e. double the time?) Also, once you have trimmed the material do you hand paste, or do you pull through a machine? Thanks.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

No good deed goes unpunished..........right, Bill?


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

daArch said:


> And I can't agree and reiterate ?  :thumbsup: :jester:


 
no:no:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Gwarel said:


> Your tip of using two parallel straight edges is a real jewel. I'm curious about a couple of things. What would you estimate the time it takes to properly trim the material does to your production rate? (i.e. double the time?) Also, once you have trimmed the material do you hand paste, or do you pull through a machine? Thanks.


My estimate formulas have 12 minutes per single roll to trim. I'm about to adjust that down a smidge. . . . maybe.

I hand paste or machine paste based on number rolls. It takes me 40 minutes total to unpack, set up, clean up, and pack up my machine. It takes me about 4 minutes to machine paste a double roll, about 12 minutes to hand paste the same. So the cut off point is approx 5 doubles. Without getting too complicated with the numbers, if it's a one day job, I'll hand paste, if it's longer, I'll machine paste. And as always there are exceptions.

The other week I had two short days and then a stint of three days. On the short days, I bagged the machine with paste still in it and saved my self lots of setup/cleanup time. (Not as efficient as I would have liked - paste slopped out and time was needed for a little cleaning)

This is one result of constantly keeping track of my time to complete tasks.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

chrisn said:


> no:no:



OK, then I'll just be rude and say, "YAH ?!?!? Well I said it better" :whistling2: :thumbsup:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

slinger58 said:


> No good deed goes unpunished..........right, Bill?


I'm a firm believer of that (and executioner :thumbsup: )

As you and I know, Time wounds all heels.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

daArch said:


> OK, then I'll just be rude and say, "YAH ?!?!? Well I said it better" :whistling2: :thumbsup:


 
oh, I agree:yes:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

chrisn said:


> oh, I agree:yes:



now you're just playing with me


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## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

Wagteil said:


> Hi,
> This paper come untrimmed, an I haven't done this before. Is anyone know what will be best way to trim it? On table or double cut on wall? Also, how long needs to folded, I don't have instruction?
> http://search.brunschwig.com/Brunschwig-and-Fils-Print-Beige/BR-69551.074-1328/CoverInformation.aspx


 I trim dry on the table. A tip I use is to have an appropriate color acrylic paint (probably white) to fill in inevitable dark lines at the seams.


:cowboy:


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## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

chrisn said:


> Hopefully Bill will come along and have time to write the book to answer what you are asking. Me? I am not sure why you would be trying to do a job that you don't know how to do
> 
> and have the balls to charge for it.


 And my father's first wallpaper job was when somebody asked him (while he was painting a house) if he knew how to hang wallpaper.
He replied, "Uh... yeeaah?"

Of course this was back in the 40's when nobody knew how to hang wallpaper.
Question is, can you back up your work when you screw it up.


:cowboy:


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

daArch said:


> now you're just playing with me


 
 me? no, really, I was being serious:yes:


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Underdog said:


> And my father's first wallpaper job was when somebody asked him (while he was painting a house) if he knew how to hang wallpaper.
> He replied, "Uh... yeeaah?"
> 
> Of course this was back in the 40's when nobody knew how to hang wallpaper.
> ...


 
I thought anybody could back then


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Remember, back in the 40's, seams were SUPPOSED to be overlapped, and I don't know when razors were used for trim cuts, it was either scissors (I've tried that) or those sharpened wheels on a handle or better yet the wheels that serrated the paper.

Can you imagine how neat those trim cuts could have been when using a less than absolutely keen edged wheel with thick pulpy paper saturated with wheat paste on less than smooth corners?


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Underdog said:


> I trim dry on the table. A tip I use is to have an appropriate color acrylic paint (probably white) to fill in inevitable dark lines at the seams.
> 
> 
> :cowboy:



UD,

graduate from acrylic to gouache paint - it is water base and quite opaque.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gouache

I buy mine at AC Moore


I also have a tin of Caran d'ache NEOCOLOR® II water soluble crayons. 

They are harder to find. And expensive, but I bought a tin of 30 about 8 years ago and will have plenty left even if I were to continue in the trade for another ten years. 

http://www.carandache.ch/en/601-neocolor-ii-watersoluble-assortiment-30-couleurs.html



All to often, acrylics can get out of hand and permanently color the surface. I haven't used my acrylics in many years - except to touch up wood work.


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## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

chrisn said:


> I thought anybody could back then


That was kinda my point in that everybody did it.



:cowboy:


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## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

daArch said:


> UD,
> 
> graduate from acrylic to gouache paint - it is water base and ......


 I have an art store I go to a lot, I'll check that out, thanks.

I keep a stain pen I found at S/W for darker stained woods. 



:cowboy:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Underdog said:


> I have an art store I go to a lot, I'll check that out, thanks.
> 
> I keep a stain pen I found at S/W for darker stained woods.
> 
> ...


They may also have the NEOCOLOR II crayons - but make sure they are the WATER SOLUBLE ones. Caran d'ache makes all sorts of pastels.


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

daArch said:


> Remember, back in the 40's, seams were SUPPOSED to be overlapped, and I don't know when razors were used for trim cuts, it was either scissors (I've tried that) or those sharpened wheels on a handle or better yet the wheels that serrated the paper.
> 
> Can you imagine how neat those trim cuts could have been when using a less than absolutely keen edged wheel with thick pulpy paper saturated with wheat paste on less than smooth corners?


I have one of those wheel cutters. It attaches to a 6' straight edge. My grandfather bought it from Sears & Roebuck in 1944.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Gwarel said:


> I have one of those wheel cutters. It attaches to a 6' straight edge. My grandfather bought it from Sears & Roebuck in 1944.


Those are for trimming selvedge, and I have a couple also - they just don't fit any of my straight edges.

No, what I'm talking about is on a handle for trimming around casements, bases, and crowns. Hold it, I'm sure I can find a pic

AH, found a NICE one:










and this description:



> Description
> 
> The paperhanger's wheel knife is also referred to as the casing wheel. It is a circular cutter mounted on a wooden handle, used for cutting wallpaper quickly and cleanly around moldings or door casings.


GREAT site with all sorts of clip art of paperhanging tools

http://etc.usf.edu/clipart/galleries/703-wallpaper-hanging-tools


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

daArch said:


> Those are for trimming selvedge, and I have a couple also - they just don't fit any of my straight edges.
> 
> No, what I'm talking about is on a handle for trimming around casements, bases, and crowns. Hold it, I'm sure I can find a pic
> 
> ...


I checked Pappaw's toolbox, these still have the wheat paste on them.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Gwarel said:


> I checked Pappaw's toolbox, these still have the wheat paste on them.


EXCELLENT !

Thank you !! :notworthy: :notworthy:


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## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

Gwarel said:


> I checked Pappaw's toolbox, these still have the wheat paste on them.


 I checked my dad's toolbox and sure enough, his still had pizza on them.

:cowboy:


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

Gwarel said:


> I checked Pappaw's toolbox, these still have the wheat paste on them.


I have a bunch of those.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

ProWallGuy said:


> I have a bunch of those.


I am sure you do

Oh that's right, you're a "collector" , but I am just a pack rat :whistling2:

BTW, has any of you "collectors" even THOUGHT about sharpening any of those old wheels or knives and seeing how bad they were to work with ?

For a thick pulp, I could see they MIGHT give near satisfactory results, but can't imagine how bad they could be with a PBV of the Laura Ashley genre


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

daArch said:


> I am sure you do
> 
> Oh that's right, you're a "collector" , but I am just a pack rat :whistling2:
> 
> ...


 
or some nice wet norwall


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## fanggo (May 16, 2014)

*My first untrimmed ever*

Job went well. Salamandre paper. Beautiful. 

I cut the left trim dry. Pasted the wall. Used a laser level and a long straight edge that I made with a handle on it for better grip. 

Now I did something I have never tried before. I sprayed the back of my cut sheets with water and took a damp cloth just after to the entire back. Booked it. 

Put it up on the pasted wall. Then double cut. Was easy to see the trim marks and not have them exposed. The walls were plastered and very smooth.

I too am not afraid of attempting something new. Keeps the blood flowing. But at $220.00 per single roll my blood flood more than before.


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

daArch said:


> I am sure you do
> 
> Oh that's right, you're a "collector" , but I am just a pack rat :whistling2:
> 
> ...


I used all vintage tools on that 1905 French handprint I installed in a bathroom that won me the coveted WWWW award a couple years ago. The wheel trimmers actually worked better than a blade. Go figure.


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## fanggo (May 16, 2014)

I have wheel trimmers. Yet I think, for me, a good grip and the right angle would make me feel more comfortable. I find the wheel has a little too much give for me.

But I will have to try it out.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

ProWallGuy said:


> I used all vintage tools on that 1905 French handprint I installed in a bathroom that won me the coveted WWWW award a couple years ago. The wheel trimmers actually worked better than a blade. Go figure.


I gotta figure it was sharp. Sometimes around a tricky return with a pulp, I will "press" a single edge around the profile, thus eliminating "drag" that can rip and tear. The wheel trimmer must work on the same principle.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

fanggo said:


> Job went well. Salamandre paper. Beautiful.
> 
> I cut the left trim dry. Pasted the wall. Used a laser level and a long straight edge that I made with a handle on it for better grip.
> 
> ...


 
I am confused. Is this the Wagteil of the original post?:blink:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

chrisn said:


> I am confused. Is this the Wagteil of the original post?:blink:


No, this is the fanggo you replied to yesterday


http://www.painttalk.com/f2/wallpaper-28249/#post496293

BOY, and I thought I was getting senile.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

daArch said:


> No, this is the fanggo you replied to yesterday
> 
> 
> http://www.painttalk.com/f2/wallpaper-28249/#post496293
> ...


 
so, he posted in the wrong thread

and I am senile?

the original poster in THIS thread never returned


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