# Do you caulk exterior trim to the siding?



## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

I was taught that you only caulk where the trim and siding meet if:

The trim butts up to the siding, like Hardie Plank or other lap siding; as opposed to the trim sitting on the siding. 

Or, if you aren't painting the edge of the trim for some reason.

Just wanted to know if that's how everyone else does it, or if I've been doing it wrong.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Sounds about right.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

Ah yep. Hopefully trim is not on top of siding.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Hines Painting said:


> I was taught that you only caulk where the trim and siding meet if:
> 
> The trim butts up to the siding, like Hardie Plank or other lap siding; as opposed to the trim sitting on the siding.
> 
> ...


That's the way we do it.

The caulk is also the first line of defense against water intrusion at that point. Hopefully, the builder was knowledgeable enough NOT to count on the caulk to keep the water out. If the builder knows his stuff (hey, it's possible) there should be either a spline of weather-resistant barrier (felt, or something similar) or some peel-and-stick membrane behind that joint.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

ridesarize said:


> Ah yep. Hopefully trim is not on top of siding.


That's a detail that makes me cringe every time I see it. A lot of it seems to date from the last building boom, when builders were trying to knock out houses as fast as they could. They would frame a wall, sheath the walls, install windows, and install the siding. Then they would jack the walls up and slap on corners.


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

The only time I see the trim on top is if its (flat) sheet siding, like t1-11. I never culk that trim to the wall.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Some Cape style homes around here are on top of the siding which we don't caulk, butted up we do caulking.


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## cdaniels (Oct 20, 2012)

I always caulk all trim edges and I always paint trim edges with trim paint not the siding paint.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

cdaniels said:


> I always caulk all trim edges and I always paint trim edges with trim paint not the siding paint.


french cut, all the homes for our builders are like that.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

ridesarize said:


> french cut, all the homes for our builders are like that.


We may have had this discussion before, I remember that somebody used that term. More of our clients comment on how much they like that detail than any other single detail. That's especially the case when the house was previous painted spec-style, i.e. only the faces of the trim painted in the trim color.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

cdaniels said:


> I always caulk all trim edges and I always paint trim edges with trim paint not the siding paint.


We always use body on the edges unless they want to pay a lot more to cut the trim color in on the edge. Most people around prefer to save the extra money and go with body color.


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

I don't cut the edge on hardy plank. I don't care much for the jagged look of it. 

I think it looks cleaner if you just face it off when it's like that.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

Oh yes it costs way more, especially on 2 or 3 story, including belly bands, window trim, corvals, and then double coated!


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

ridesarize said:


> french cut, all the homes for our builders are like that.



I've always heard it referred to as an 'east coast edge. And the trim edges being run with siding color as a 'west coast, or California edge. 

We did a new house this year with Hardie siding and cedar trim. The builder wanted an east coast edge despite the extra labor involved. It definitely makes a difference in the look of the house.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Hines Painting said:


> The only time I see the trim on top is if its (flat) sheet siding, like t1-11. I never culk that trim to the wall.



Why? 

I know there is some debate about the effectiveness/ necessity of caulking window trim to siding at all, given air/water intrusion should be stopped by flashing and house wrap anyway. But it just seems better to me to caulk all cracks around windows regardless of style. Just an extra line of defense against the elements. 

I even like to caulk the inside crack between window trim and vinyl windows. Again, flashing and house wrap are there for a reason, but why not add that extra seal.


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

Jmayspaint said:


> Why?
> 
> I know there is some debate about the effectiveness/ necessity of caulking window trim to siding at all, given air/water intrusion should be stopped by flashing and house wrap anyway. But it just seems better to me to caulk all cracks around windows regardless of style. Just an extra line of defense against the elements.
> 
> I even like to caulk the inside crack between window trim and vinyl windows. Again, flashing and house wrap are there for a reason, but why not add that extra seal.


Just the way I was taught mostly. And then what do you do for the occasional edge that is on 1 edge of a groove, or hanging over a groove? Kinda looks silly to have a section of groove caulked in. 

Also, I was under the impression that no matter what is done, all caulking will crack eventually. Then when you have a small crack that lets water in behind the trim it has no way to get out. Essentially trapping water behind the trim which leads to bigger problems.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Jmayspaint said:


> I've always heard it referred to as an 'east coast edge. And the trim edges being run with siding color as a 'west coast, or California edge.
> 
> We did a new house this year with Hardie siding and cedar trim. The builder wanted an east coast edge despite the extra labor involved. It definitely makes a difference in the look of the house.


Nice looking job. 

Our clients like how that makes the trim "pop".


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Hines Painting said:


> Just the way I was taught mostly. And then what do you do for the occasional edge that is on 1 edge of a groove, or hanging over a groove? Kinda looks silly to have a section of groove caulked in.
> 
> Also, I was under the impression that no matter what is done, all caulking will crack eventually. Then when you have a small crack that lets water in behind the trim it has no way to get out. Essentially trapping water behind the trim which leads to bigger problems.


With clapboards, we don't caulk the bottom edge, so there's an exit path.

We try to avoid jobs with T1-11. I'm convinced the "T" stands for Temporary.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Hines Painting said:


> Also, I was under the impression that no matter what is done, all caulking will crack eventually. Then when you have a small crack that lets water in behind the trim it has no way to get out. Essentially trapping water behind the trim which leads to bigger problems.












Yea, I can see that theory. That's the reason we stopped caulking story boards on T-1-11 type sidings.


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

Gough said:


> With clapboards, we don't caulk the bottom edge, so there's an exit path.
> 
> We try to avoid jobs with T1-11. I'm convinced the "T" stands for Temporary.


I wish I could avoid it, but I would guess that about 75% of the homes in my market are some type of vertical, grooved, siding. 

I do remember reading somewhere that it was created as a cheap alternative siding that was only rated to last 25 years so that people could build a house for less and upgrade it later. 

Don't know if it's true or not, but I did read it.


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## Monstertruck (Oct 26, 2013)

cdpainting said:


> We always use body on the edges unless they want to pay a lot more to cut the trim color in on the edge. Most people around prefer to save the extra money and go with body color.


I offer both, most folks go with the lower cost of facing trim only. It certainly does make a difference in appearance though.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Gough said:


> With clapboards, we don't caulk the bottom edge, so there's an exit path.
> 
> We try to avoid jobs with T1-11. I'm convinced the "T" stands for Temporary.


We never use caulking on the bottom edges of clapboards it seals the houses up way to tight especially historical homes with original siding.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

cdpainting said:


> We never use caulking on the bottom edges of clapboards it seals the houses up way to tight especially historical homes with original siding.


I should have been clearer that I was talking about the bottom edge where it meets the corner board, but good point. It's about working to create was Joe Lstiburek calls "a ventilated rain screen", a protective layer that keeps out most of the rain, but allow any water that gets past it to drain out, as well as some amount of ventilation so it can dry.

This is beyond the scope of PT, but that's another reason that makes clapboards and shingles a better choice than sheet goods when it comes to siding.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Monstertruck said:


> I offer both, most folks go with the lower cost of facing trim only. It certainly does make a difference in appearance though.


We don't offer them the choice.

Really.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

We face em. I agree they look better edged but only up close.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

What do they do in New England?

Thats what I wanna know...


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## Susan (Nov 29, 2011)

TJ Paint said:


> What do they do in New England? Thats what I wanna know...


I'll buy the beer, you can come see for yourself.


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## KD PAINTING (Nov 8, 2012)

We always caulk exterior trim to the siding, it looks more finished that way.


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## putlotson (Feb 22, 2012)

*Caulkiong Exterior Trim*

fa


Hines Painting said:


> I was taught that you only caulk where the trim and siding meet if:
> 
> The trim butts up to the siding, like Hardie Plank or other lap siding; as opposed to the trim sitting on the siding.
> 
> ...


As I see it there are lots of reasons NOT to caulk exterior trim (such as sound cedar) and 3 good reasons TO caulk exterior trim. 1. Keep water out where necessary 2. Keep bugs out where necessary 3. So the trim or the body paint can go on more precise. As a painter YOU make those decisions and if you are confused you need to educate yourself. As far as paint price and cosmetics go ...trim French cut is classy. trim limited to face color is cheesy so you have to charge and do what the project bears. Good rule of thumb. Would you Face or French paint or caulk your own trim?


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## KKikuyama (Jul 31, 2013)

*Caulking the trim to the siding*



Hines Painting said:


> I was taught that you only caulk where the trim and siding meet if:
> 
> The trim butts up to the siding, like Hardie Plank or other lap siding; as opposed to the trim sitting on the siding.
> 
> ...


Generally we would do it as you described. Our builder requires the siding installer to do the caulking because he controls the quality of the siding and trim installation. So, problems with over-driven nails, nail holes, bowing of siding, insects or moisture its the the siding installer he would go to for corrections.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

cdaniels said:


> I always caulk all trim edges and I always paint trim edges with trim paint not the siding paint.


:yes::thumbup:


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