# Paint store advice to a customer.



## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Prospective customer calls today to ask me to re-do my bid. Seems that they are purchasing the paint themselves. 

They also now want me to brush the entire exterior rather than spray. Seems the paint store told them that you get heavier coverage with a brush than by spraying!


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## TooledUp (May 17, 2008)

That sucks bug time. You need to clarify what paint they are getting. Cheap stuff is gonna cost more to apply and try and get a decent finish.

The paint store was right in what they said but thick isn't always good. Too thick will crackle. They will also have to be happy with brush marks.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Personally think I get a more even and heavier coat when spraying. Either way the customer is going to get what they want. Just the labor is more on brushing. I don't mind as long as they are willing to pay.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

So redo your bid! 
How much longer will it take you to brush and roll it. 
How much more will the paint be without your contractors discount?


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## TooledUp (May 17, 2008)

bikerboy said:


> Personally think I get a more even and heavier coat when spraying. Either way the customer is going to get what they want. Just the labor is more on brushing. I don't mind as long as they are willing to pay.


I think you can lay on more paint with a brush than you can spray. Like I said though, either way, thicker isn't always better. Just because it's on heavier doesn't mean it's going to last any longer. I hate it when they listen to the counter guy rather than the painter


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

I say re-do your bid and adjust it to the added expensive of brush rather than spray. You will use less material but will take extra time. 
I prefer to spray when I can but sometimes the brush is more practicle. Also a lot of painters lack the brush work experience and will stubbornly do anything to spray. Not saying this about you Biker just using it as in reference.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Ya! I would do what they ask. You have the right attitude.. 
Do you ask where thet would be buying their paint


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

I love pimply faced store drones that are experts 

There is the school of thought that is married to the prospect that a brush works the paint deeper into the wood and the paint goes on wetter if not exposed, as spray, to the air before hitting the siding. 

Sometimes it is not worth the trouble presenting a different outlook if the HO is steadfast in his/her reality. 

Look at the brightside, they asked you to adjust price according to the new parameters. :thumbup:


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## GMack (Jan 18, 2008)

Blow their minds and tell them you're going to spray and backbrush.


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

nobody can put more paint on with a brush, then a sprayer. No way. NO how.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

I suppose a sprayer can really put it on when you don't move the gun from one spot...


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

When people say they can put a thicker coat on with a brush, that shows you how much they know about spraying paint,ever try to touch up a spot after you spray only to see it sag and run.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

the only thing a brush can do better is work the paint into the cracks, and nail holes, and what ever void you have.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

On rough cedar which we do most of the time the finish look is better if it was brushed only or at least spray and back brushed.. Spraying exterior has such a bad rap in the areas I work from all the blo-n-go and gypsy's that have over sprayed everything in there path...


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Yeah, that's what i'm saying, is if you have areas that need the paint raked into, you spray and back brush to fill the voids.


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## tsunamicontract (May 3, 2008)

Its too bad the people know nothing about spraying and just assume its the easy, wrong way out. I wouldn't consider spraying the first coat of paint without backbrushing (after backbrushing the primer). And with the sprayer you get a more uniform coating thickness. What were these people doing at the paint store anyways? Isn't that why they hired you? I would have a word with the store too, you can't have them making you look unprofessional.


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

I do D.) all the above. Spraying is mainly a way to get the product on the surface the quickest, and build up as much as you can or want for a certain area the best. I will not go sprayerless.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

HO's who tell me they want their house only brushed or rolled dont bother me at all. I just tell them that a sprayer will be set up and used because its alot easier to bring a gun and hose up the ladder then a bucket of paint, it all gets back-brushed/rolled anyway.

However, I will tell them that the second coat may go on with sprayer only to even out the sheen. If they cant handle that they might need to find another painter.


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## TooledUp (May 17, 2008)

Dave Mac said:


> nobody can put more paint on with a brush, then a sprayer. No way. NO how.



It depends how you're defining it. I can lay paint on heavier with a brush than sprayer before it starts to sag or run and keep it consitant. Doing that with a sprayer, to the point just before it sags and keeping it consistant would not be so easy. But if you're talking about how much you can put on then you can put any amount on with a brush or spray but you can do it a lot faster with spraying.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Lets answer sevral questions at one time. (Have yet to figure out multi-quote)

It was a Ben Moore store so we can assume that the quality is good.

It is aluminum siding so we don't have to worry about back brushing to work the material into the wood.

And last of course, it's all about the price. Me and as it turns out 3 other companies have to re-do our bids.

Will see what happens. Still have work, but always like more.


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## 1977corey (Feb 27, 2009)

<nevermind>


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## TooledUp (May 17, 2008)

1977corey said:


> (just kidding, i have been diagnosed with insomnia, not kidding)


Me too but I don't lose any sleep over it.


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## In Demand (Mar 24, 2008)

They want you to brush their aluminum siding? I would call the paint store and give the idiot who suggested this to them an ear full.


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## Slingah (Sep 24, 2007)

bikerboy said:


> Lets answer sevral questions at one time. (Have yet to figure out multi-quote)
> 
> It was a Ben Moore store so we can assume that the quality is good.
> 
> ...


One thing that gets my goat is when a h/o tries to dictate how things are to be done...is that not why they are hiring a professional? I figured it is about the price, that's why they want to buy the paint. Good luck if you get that one....
Multi-quote is easy, click the quote icon on the post you want to quote, it will highlight...then click the next one...then click post reply....when you get that screen just ad you comments below them....give it a shot



ModernStyle said:


> They want you to brush their aluminum siding? I would call the paint store and give the idiot who suggested this to them an ear full.


He needs to know he gave out some not-so-good advice for sure.


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## Metro M & L (Jul 21, 2009)

If that home owner is going to save on paint I bet you my left nut that they won't buy benny moore. They'll come back with 70% of the amount you need, in behr, in a bright red. 

I've said it before. I have never had a homeowner provide what they say they will provide.


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## dreemr13 (Jul 9, 2009)

daArch said:


> I love pimply faced store drones that are experts


A few months back, a painter I used threw out the liners we used for the day before instead of wrapping them up, so since my SW was across the city, in a pinch I went into a Canadian Tire (which is like a Target for the US) to get some SIMMS tray liners and I needed a few HANDY PAIL liners or a cutting can as we were using 5's. So they have these ass cheap pails and liners that were more $$ than the handy's, so I ask the guy behind the counter if they have cutting cans? He has no idea what I mean. 

They actually mix paint at this store and this guy was the one that would do it. He walked me around all the Painting isles and asks again, what is it you need? I say a cutting can, it's an empty paint can, so you can cut ceilings, base and trim in. Guy still doesn't know, who is in his late 40's I would say. Hes now getting annoyed with me because he doesn't know what I want. So I ask him if there is anyone else in the department. He says no, and he then tells me, he is the Painting Department MANAGER. 

I started laughing at the guy. "Buddy, your the department manager and you don't know what cutting in is, or what a cutting can is? Serious?"

He tells me I am am being rude. I tell him he should go to a different department, maybe housewares. That is a problem painters do face though. If this idiots doesn't know what a cutting can is then how can he tell a homeowner what coatings to use and how to apply them.

Here is what I do.

If the customer wants to provide their own paint they can, but I won't paint with anything other than professional grade SW, BM, GP or SICO for a lesser price. I tell the customers that it will cost them the same for us to use their purchased paint as it would to have Quali-Kote(Interior) from SW at contractor's prices, they do snuff at you at first, until you explain, that you will likely need to do an additional coat and retails coatings are lower quality. Behr, I just tell them it wrecks our $30 brushes and we won't use it at all.


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

love those handy pail deals


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## painterdude (Jun 18, 2008)

another old timer answer. Back 30 years or more ago we did all brush work outside with oil. As the airless became more common we sprayed(oil) and brushed it out ...used the sprayer to deliver the coating. With the better sprayers and more experience there is no way a brush job will out do and deliver more product than a sprayer if the operator knows what he's doing. Like someone said before...expert advice from a 8 buck an hour store clerk is just what the customer needs. The answer to the home owner is to quietly explain the pro's and con's of both..the time involved and the long term solution. As for the H.O. buying the material you better make sure it's not junk, cause it'll fall on you down the road if it fails. pd


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## painterdude (Jun 18, 2008)

What the heck is a cutting can?? Couldn't you just ask the guy for an empty can?


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

painterdude said:


> What the heck is a cutting can?? Couldn't you just ask the guy for an empty can?


That's kind of what I was thinking, I know what a cut-in can is, but to ask the store clark at a non paint store would be assuming too much.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

dreemr13 said:


> I tell the customers that it will cost them the same for us to use their purchased paint as it would to have Quali-Kote(Interior) from SW at contractor's prices,


I like that.






dreemr13 said:


> Behr, I just tell them it wrecks our $30 brushes and we won't use it at all.


And I really like that:thumbsup:


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Bender, I have secretly changed the paint in your SW cans to Folgers Crystals.


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

johnpaint said:


> Bender, I have secretly changed the paint in your SW cans to Folgers Crystals.










:laughing:


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## ParagonVA (Feb 3, 2009)

backbrush with a technique I saw here on PT a while back...with a push broom :whistling2:. The customer would come out and say, "What the..". You could come back with, "You wanted it brushed ya moron". (not making fun of that post, I liked the idea for ext. stain)

Better yet, brush the whole thing in direct sunlight and show them how well it'll turn out.

If it were me, I'd spray and back brush just to appease the HO. Hopefully all the neighbors wouldn't be requesting the same deal. I'd have to make it clear that the circumstances of that bid were "special".


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

ParagonVA said:


> Better yet, brush the whole thing in direct sunlight and show them how well it'll turn out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## LOSTinDETAILS (Jun 17, 2009)

The majority of paint store employees know absolutely squat about there products other than what is on the brochure or can. Every once in awhile I will run across an old-timer or some one who has experience with actually applying coatings working behind the counter. As we all know the majority are pimple faced students or salesmen. 


As for your dilemma. I would redo bid with the brushing option and in the process of going over it with the homeowner I would school them on proper technique of spraying and back brushing or rolling. I would push semi-hard on the latter due to your margins should be higher with this option. Good luck and let us know how it goes.


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## slickshift (Apr 8, 2007)

bikerboy said:


> Prospective customer calls today to ask me to re-do my bid. Seems that they are purchasing the paint themselves.
> 
> They also now want me to brush the entire exterior rather than spray. Seems the paint store told them that you get heavier coverage with a brush than by spraying!


Ideally...the customer told the Paint Seller that they have a contractor doing the work, and ideally the Paint Seller would say "The Painting Contractor would know the best app."

In reality, the customer is maybe not mentioning the fact that someone else is doing the work, and therefore the Seller is turning them away from the spray
(let's face it, most DIYs should not spray)
...or worse, the Seller thinks themselves a Consumer Advocate

Explaining this to the prospect (and I'd call them a prospect unless they've already signed...to MY app.), and possibly showing them the actual manufacturer's specs (can label, tech sheets) saying spraying (or whatever app.) is OK, will usually work

Hopefully the Paint Store Employee was un-aware of the actual situation
Unfortunately, some can feel themselves "Consumer Advocates"

The bottom line is: What Does The Manufacturer Say?


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## slickshift (Apr 8, 2007)

bikerboy said:


> Prospective customer calls today to ask me to re-do my bid. Seems that they are purchasing the paint themselves.


Again, one more reason to Not Let Customers "Spec" Materials
...or application


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## slickshift (Apr 8, 2007)

bikerboy said:


> Prospective customer calls today to ask me to re-do my bid....They also now want me to brush the entire exterior rather than spray...


Yeah, sorry..bye bye
Never "re-do" bid for application you didn't spec in your first bid


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## slickshift (Apr 8, 2007)

*...unless you truly messed it up in the first place


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