# Has Advance Changed?



## monarchski (Jun 21, 2019)

Has anyone noticed a difference in BM Advance? Not sure if I've just gotten more used to it or it's working differently due to changes in raw materials. 

It seems to hang better, doesn't seem near as prone to sagging as it used to. Seems to have a better re-coat time/faster dry time. I swear it's a harder finish than it used to be. The key to that product has always been thin coats so not sure if changing over to the TriTech FF tips has made a difference or they changed the product. 

Just curious.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

monarchski said:


> Has anyone noticed a difference in BM Advance? Not sure if I've just gotten more used to it or it's working differently due to changes in raw materials.
> 
> It seems to hang better, doesn't seem near as prone to sagging as it used to. Seems to have a better re-coat time/faster dry time. I swear it's a harder finish than it used to be. The key to that product has always been thin coats so not sure if changing over to the TriTech FF tips has made a difference or they changed the product.
> 
> Just curious.


There's been alot of talk in other threads. I personally haven't noticed anything, but have a bunch of cabinet jobs coming up so will be curious. I've always liked Advance, atleast in the light colours.


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## monarchski (Jun 21, 2019)

finishesbykevyn said:


> There's been alot of talk in other threads. I personally haven't noticed anything, but have a bunch of cabinet jobs coming up so will be curious. I've always liked Advance, atleast in the light colours.


I do remember some complaints about sheens changing but from what I'm seeing, they made some pretty wholesale changes but haven't really told anyone about them.


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## Don Painting Services (4 mo ago)

monarchski said:


> I do remember some complaints about sheens changing


I think that @Calgarypainter is starting a Class Action Lawsuit because of that, lol
Here is his thread about it:








Will benjamin Moore be bringing back old advanced formula?


Do they offer Advance in Eggshell? Mught be a dumb question, but have you tried Advance Matte? Maybe that comes out like old Advance Satin 😂 Advance Matte is discontinued.




www.painttalk.com


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

When the previous thread surfaced I did ask some higher ups at BM and got the answer I expected: Hasn't changed and BM will update the SKU when there are major changes to a product end of story. See the other endless SKU revisions recently for reference. A couple percent change to the rheology modifiers is not a major change that would cause intermixing of batches to have unpredictable results. If they were using a different resin BM would simpy print a new SKU on the can.


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## Don Painting Services (4 mo ago)

My theory is that BM removed all the very expensive ingredients from some of their paints and sold them on the black market
to pay that good for nothing graphic designer who butchered their new labels.
Benjamin Moore should hire Sherwin Williams graphic designers to design their new labels.
I must give credit to ShW that they have very elegant and very confident looking labels.
Even Behr labels look nicer than BM.
Sad


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Don Painting Services said:


> My theory is that BM removed all the very expensive ingredients from some of their paints and sold them on the black market
> to pay that good for nothing graphic designer who butchered their new labels.
> Benjamin Moore should hire Sherwin Williams graphic designers to design their new labels.
> I must give credit to ShW that they have very elegant and very confident looking labels.
> ...


Yeah the new labels are terrible.


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## Calgarypainter (8 mo ago)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> When the previous thread surfaced I did ask some higher ups at BM and got the answer I expected: Hasn't changed and BM will update the SKU when there are major changes to a product end of story. See the other endless SKU revisions recently for reference. A couple percent change to the rheology modifiers is not a major change that would cause intermixing of batches to have unpredictable results. If they were using a different resin BM would simpy print a new SKU on the can.



You are a really arrogant and hard headed person. It has changed. The data sheets have proved it and you have been part of the other threads where someone posted them and proved they took out a chemical that reduces sheen and even replied and liked posts in that thread.

I get your dad owns a benjamin moore or maybe you do but please don't lie to people looking for information. I use Advance almost daily and it has changed. That's a fact.

Ask the higher ups in an email and post what they say.


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## Calgarypainter (8 mo ago)

monarchski said:


> Has anyone noticed a difference in BM Advance? Not sure if I've just gotten more used to it or it's working differently due to changes in raw materials.
> 
> It seems to hang better, doesn't seem near as prone to sagging as it used to. Seems to have a better re-coat time/faster dry time. I swear it's a harder finish than it used to be. The key to that product has always been thin coats so not sure if changing over to the TriTech FF tips has made a difference or they changed the product.
> 
> Just curious.


 Definitely has changed and yes I have noticed it is a harder product. Still a great product but the sheen is a big turn off. Too shiny for a pearl.

Cocomonkeynuts is not a trust worthy person when talking about benjamin moore products. He obviously has a bias in the game and won't give unbiased information or just doesn't have experience with advance.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Take it down several notches. Last warning.

From the forum rules:
2. Users shall treat each other with respect at all times on PaintTalk.com. Ideas and opinions may be challenged, but name-calling, personal attacks, or other inappropriate behavior will not be allowed and may cause your account to be banned. Harassment will not be tolerated in this community.


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## Don Painting Services (4 mo ago)

Calgarypainter said:


> The data sheets have proved it and you have been part of the other threads where someone posted them and proved they took out a chemical that reduces sheen and even replied and liked posts in that thread.


*"where someone posted them and proved they took out a chemical that reduces sheen" *
If I'm not mistaken it was Redux who posted that.
If I'm mistaken, then my apology to Redux, but it definitely was posted by somebody.


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## monarchski (Jun 21, 2019)

Calgarypainter said:


> Definitely has changed and yes I have noticed it is a harder product. Still a great product but the sheen is a big turn off. Too shiny for a pearl.
> 
> Cocomonkeynuts is not a trust worthy person when talking about benjamin moore products. He obviously has a bias in the game and won't give unbiased information or just doesn't have experience with advance.


I like the sheen. I also like Coco and always appreciate his feedback. Not cool bud.


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## Calgarypainter (8 mo ago)

monarchski said:


> I like the sheen. I also like Coco and always appreciate his feedback. Not cool bud.


Your question was has advanced changed not if you like the new sheen level.

So yes it has changed no matter what anyone's personal opinion is. Data sheets support that advanced has changed.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

Calgarypainter said:


> Your question was has advanced changed not if you like the new sheen level.
> 
> So yes it has changed no matter what anyone's personal opinion is. Data sheets support that advanced has changed.


You made your point. Drop it.


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## Don Painting Services (4 mo ago)

Calgarypainter said:


> Your question was has advanced changed


BTW, Calgarypainter,
I like to say thank you very much for bringing this issue of higher sheen in Advance to our attention.
I was going to use it on a trim work, but after reading your posts I decided to have a sample done at the store few days ago,
and I left the sample with the customer, and I just got an email from her telling me not to buy it, she absolutely rejected, saying that is a way too shiny for her.
In a way it's good, because I don't like the long repaint time of Advance anyways, and it has bit strange smell being a hybrid.


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## Don Painting Services (4 mo ago)

monarchski said:


> Has anyone noticed a difference in BM Advance? Not sure if I've just gotten more used to it or it's working differently due to changes in raw materials.
> 
> It seems to hang better, doesn't seem near as prone to sagging as it used to. Seems to have a better re-coat time/faster dry time. I swear it's a harder finish than it used to be. The key to that product has always been thin coats so not sure if changing over to the TriTech FF tips has made a difference or they changed the product.
> 
> Just curious.


Interesting about the better re-coat time, but from your experience, did you noticed if the sheen level is higher now.


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## Yan1 (4 mo ago)

monarchski said:


> Has anyone noticed a difference in BM Advance? Not sure if I've just gotten more used to it or it's working differently due to changes in raw materials.
> 
> It seems to hang better, doesn't seem near as prone to sagging as it used to. Seems to have a better re-coat time/faster dry time. I swear it's a harder finish than it used to be. The key to that product has always been thin coats so not sure if changing over to the TriTech FF tips has made a difference or they changed the product.
> 
> Just curious.


YES! i used it recently and the formula is sub par, i had to redo everything with there primer and recoat it was absurd and saddening idk whether its EPA or VOC laws but all paints aren't what they used to be. everything is dry looking and chalky. benjamin moore reigns supreme as far as pigments and color selection but advance is an overpriced disappointment.


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## monarchski (Jun 21, 2019)

Yan1 said:


> YES! i used it recently and the formula is sub par, i had to redo everything with there primer and recoat it was absurd and saddening idk whether its EPA or VOC laws but all paints aren't what they used to be. everything is dry looking and chalky. benjamin moore reigns supreme as far as pigments and color selection but advance is an overpriced disappointment.


Sounds like user error to me. It along with Scuffx are my two favorite trim paints.


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## Calgarypainter (8 mo ago)

Don Painting Services said:


> BTW, Calgarypainter,
> I like to say thank you very much for bringing this issue of higher sheen in Advance to our attention.
> I was going to use it on a trim work, but after reading your posts I decided to have a sample done at the store few days ago,
> and I left the sample with the customer, and I just got an email from her telling me not to buy it, she absolutely rejected, saying that is a way too shiny for her.
> In a way it's good, because I don't like the long repaint time of Advance anyways, and it has bit strange smell being a hybrid.


No worries! 

What else do you like? I tried the command from your suggestion and noticed it smelt worse than Advance. 

I still like advance especially if I'm spraying. The good thing with Advance is you really don't need to prime as long as wood is pre-primed. Any other paint I've tried you can't get away without priming. Advance actually looks and feels better when you don't prime. 

But yes the sheen level is a major turn off. It actually looks like an oil based semi gloss. Haven't had a complaint...yet...but I think I will need to find something with less sheen. I used to love using Advance touching up lacquer but it's become harder now.

I just wish they were honest with it because the BM I frequent told me "new label but exactly the same" I then pointed out the data sheet that has the chemical missing that lowers sheen...just by their faces I knew they knew exactly what I was talking about but they said "well that's what they told us". Come on, you're selling this stuff, you should know it's different.

Also in the last 6 months my price has went up about 30%. Was getting it for about $52 a gallon now it's costing me almost $69.


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## monarchski (Jun 21, 2019)

Don Painting Services said:


> Interesting about the better re-coat time, but from your experience, did you noticed if the sheen level is higher now.


I have not noticed a difference in the sheen. I brushed out some baseboards last week and looks like a nice satin finish. It was also dry to the touch in an hour.


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## celicaxx (May 29, 2015)

Don Painting Services said:


> My theory is that BM removed all the very expensive ingredients from some of their paints and sold them on the black market
> to pay that good for nothing graphic designer who butchered their new labels.
> Benjamin Moore should hire Sherwin Williams graphic designers to design their new labels.
> I must give credit to ShW that they have very elegant and very confident looking labels.
> ...


Oldschool BM labels looked very... Regal.


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## Packard (May 2, 2018)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Yeah the new labels are terrible.


And printed on uncoated stock that looks cheap and gets dirty quickly. They do make the pails look like the cheap “store brand”.

Look at the labels above. They are shiny; the result of using coated paper. 

My guess is that their graphics designer either quit or retired and management asked, “Does anyone here know how to use Adobe Illustrator?” And someone replied, “Yeah, I messed around with it.” And management said, “OK, you’re our new label designer.”


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Packard said:


> And printed on uncoated stock that looks cheap and gets dirty quickly. They do make the pails look like the cheap “store brand”.
> 
> Look at the labels above. They are shiny; the result of using coated paper.
> 
> My guess is that their graphics designer either quit or retired and management asked, “Does anyone here know how to use Adobe Illustrator?” And someone replied, “Yeah, I messed around with it.” And management said, “OK, you’re our new label designer.”


I take it you havn't seen the video of them explaining the new design? I don't even mind the new design per se but damn how could they make them so similar that you can't tell them apart


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