# something going on at Lowe's?



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

This morning while i was perusing the paint department at my local Lowe's, i noticed probably 10 or so Lowe's "corporate types" intently looking at different areas of the department. There was also several vendor reps milling around, two of which had Diversified Brands logo'd shirts on. The normal clerk at the desk wouldn't give up any info. This is weird because they just did an entire department re-set less than 18 months ago. Hmmmm.....Wonder what they are up to.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

What is a re-set? And what is so unusual having Sherwin Williams reps at a store where they sell their product? I'm not seeing anything ominous. Help me here please.


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## Tprice2193 (Oct 3, 2017)

Reset the store or department means that they move all the different offerings around. They put the products they want you to buy in the highest traffic areas or in the area easiest to get to. Many times the "resetters" are representatives of the dominant company in that department. A reset is usually triggered by products not selling like they want. Follow the MONEY.

Nothing really ominous...they are probably just going to put the Valspar where you can't find it and move the Sherwin stuff more forward. Maybe change a few displays and end caps. What maybe ominous is that something is not selling as expected. Probably pretty serious with so much "brass" in there looking around.


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## Vinyl 54X (Mar 12, 2019)

Summers Coming


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

I think that Lowe's is going for total world domination, who could be next? Home Depot, Ace Hardware, Harbor Freight?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

So I guess it's the re-set that Pacman's concerned about. Apparently they just did a reset 18 months ago and that is unusual to do again?


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

CApainter said:


> So I guess it's the re-set that Pacman's concerned about. Apparently they just did a reset 18 months ago and that is unusual to do again?


I think he's more concerned with the world domination thingy!


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## Fman (Aug 20, 2011)

The "reset" is why you can't find anything in the grocery store from week to week.


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## Delta Painting (Apr 27, 2010)

The Lowes in my area is always dead...


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

Maybe Lowes is going to start offering Sherwin Williams paint at 30% off every other month like SW
it does give homeowners a warm fuzzy feeling like they are getting a deal


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## PNW Painter (Sep 5, 2013)

I’m amazed at how often SW has 40% off sales. It’s funny how it attracts a totally different clientele and almost every question these people ask is price related.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Repaint Florida said:


> Maybe Lowes is going to start offering Sherwin Williams paint at 30% off every other month like SW
> it does give homeowners a warm fuzzy feeling like they are getting a deal


Forget about every other detail, and focus on the $50 you'll save on paint. 

It's as if they have lost sight that the materials are the least expensive thing they are buying, but the entire deal hinges on receiving their sale price (even if it means postponing work). 

Sure, no problem, I will pick it up for you.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

It just struck me as a little strange. They usually do seasonal resets with just a couple of vendor reps and maybe a few temps. They just did an entire reset 18 months ago and it would be a major expense to do one again this soon. Just struck me as odd to see so many chiefs around with so few indians so to speak. There was even one guy with a clip board! I'm going to go back in a few days and see if they actually did anything or if they were just killing time or something. After 35 years in retail you get a sixth sense about things.


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## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

I know one thing about Lowe's......they change vendors like most people change socks. You just get used to a product they carry and a month later it's gone!, replaced by a cheaper version that's not even close to the one they had.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Gymschu said:


> I know one thing about Lowe's......they change vendors like most people change socks. You just get used to a product they carry and a month later it's gone!, replaced by a cheaper version that's not even close to the one they had.


I love the Lowes near me. Compared to Home Depot, it is an extremely good experience. There's no one staring at me, the moment I roll into the parking lot, to see if I would be stupid enough to offer a complete stranger a chance to work at my house, or someone else's.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> I love the Lowes near me. Compared to Home Depot, it is an extremely good experience. There's no one staring at me, the moment I roll into the parking lot, to see if I would be stupid enough to offer a complete stranger a chance to work at my house, or someone else's.


Ok you don't have to be so politically correct! You actually meant to say "migrants" i believe. In San Diego they hold up little signs telling people what skill they have. There will typically be 10-15 of them outside Lowe's and Home Depot every morning.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Gymschu said:


> I know one thing about Lowe's......they change vendors like most people change socks. You just get used to a product they carry and a month later it's gone!, replaced by a cheaper version that's not even close to the one they had.


They went through a lot of that last year. They purged anything the was PPG owned as well as all their Wooster stuff. Hone Depot did likewise with all their Purdy and SW owned products.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> Ok you don't have to be so politically correct! You actually meant to say "migrants" i believe. In San Diego they hold up little signs telling people what skill they have. There will typically be 10-15 of them outside Lowe's and Home Depot every morning.


 
I don't like making judgments based on race. So I don't honestly know if they were migrant workers or not. But they could definitely be described as loiterers, non permitted solicitors, traffic menaces, litterers and potential threats to property, or persons based on their un invited presence.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> I don't like making judgments based on race. So I don't honestly know if they were migrant workers or not. But they could definitely be described as loiterers, non permitted solicitors, traffic menaces, litterers and potential threats to property, or persons based on their un invited presence.


Nothing wrong with the term "migrant". Just means someone from somewhere else. Like Mexico or central america. Some of my best employees (actually all of my best employees) were from Mexico. Legally of course. If they didn't have a job or needed some side work they might have gone to look at Home depot, idk. Not a judgement.


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## LowesOfficial (Apr 6, 2018)

In the past couple months there was a smaller reset specifically for the desk area, that might be what they were checking out.
With that many people, it's possible they're in town for something else and visiting local stores on the side.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> Nothing wrong with the term "migrant". Just means someone from somewhere else. Like Mexico or central america. Some of my best employees (actually all of my best employees) were from Mexico. Legally of course. If they didn't have a job or needed some side work they might have gone to look at Home depot, idk. Not a judgement.



Using the term migrant to describe someone, indicates an assumption that a person is not a natural born citizen based purely on their appearance. In this particular case, people who have features associated with Mexico and Central American ancestry. That's race profiling. It's highly probable you are correct. But unless you have facts, it is an assumption that can be viewed by others as biased. And in a climate of incredibly sensitive people, it is a potential liability to be avoided at all cost.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> Using the term migrant to describe someone, indicates an assumption that a person is not a natural born citizen based purely on their appearance. In this particular case, people who have features associated with Mexico and Central American ancestry. That's race profiling. It's highly probable you are correct. But unless you have facts, it is an assumption that can be viewed by others as biased. And in a climate of incredibly sensitive people, it is a potential liability to be avoided at all cost.


no, migrant is the root word of immigrant. Which my ancestors were and probably yours too. A "migrant" is just someone who came from somewhere else or "migrated". Assuming the use of the word refers only to people of Hispanic decent is racist. When the okies left Oklahoma during the dustbowl, they were referred to as migrants. And they were all kinds of different ethnic backgrounds. Why people have to apply negative meanings to legit words is what the problem is.

I could have just said ******* like most of the people in San Diego do.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

maybe this will help-
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/migrant


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

PACman said:


> When the okies left Oklahoma during the dustbowl, they were referred to as migrants.


Must be a new wave of Okie mass migration.. just wondering why there are so many vehicles with Oklahoma registration tags @ construction sites in NY?...it’s slowly turned into a Dustbowl here for many of the skilled tradespeople, much of the local workforce having been displaced by Okie migrants..


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> no, migrant is the root word of immigrant. Which my ancestors were and probably yours too. A "migrant" is just someone who came from somewhere else or "migrated". Assuming the use of the word refers only to people of Hispanic decent is racist. When the okies left Oklahoma during the dustbowl, they were referred to as migrants. And they were all kinds of different ethnic backgrounds. Why people have to apply negative meanings to legit words is what the problem is.
> 
> I could have just said ******* like most of the people in San Diego do.


Because I'm white, you would never consider me a migrant. And as it turns out, I'm a natural born citizen, albeit second generation. 

If you consider the increasing population of Hispanics in the US, you have to consider that many are either first or second generation natural born US citizens. And likely even farther back than that. The thing that could be construed as racist, is making the assumption that every Hispanic individual looking for work is a migrant, or undocumented worker. I would never make that assumption in this sensitive climate. 

And as far as the particular demographic of individuals soliciting work at Home Depot parking lots, you'll be hard pressed to find any race other than Hispanic. And simple statistics can prove that. So it's not racist to assume that these individuals are of Hispanic descent. But it can certainly be misconstrued as racist to describe them all as migrants, or at least it could appear biased. 

But don't worry, I'm a Trump supporter. I won't get all lefty radical with you.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> Because I'm white, you would never consider me a migrant. And as it turns out, I'm a natural born citizen, albeit second generation.
> 
> If you consider the increasing population of Hispanics in the US, you have to consider that many are either first or second generation natural born US citizens. And likely even farther back than that. The thing that could be construed as racist, is making the assumption that every Hispanic individual looking for work is a migrant, or undocumented worker. I would never make that assumption in this sensitive climate.
> 
> ...


Spoken like a true Northern Californian. (inside joke)


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## Vinyl 54X (Mar 12, 2019)

CApainter said:


> Because I'm white, you would never consider me a migrant. And as it turns out, I'm a natural born citizen, albeit second generation.
> 
> If you consider the increasing population of Hispanics in the US, you have to consider that many are either first or second generation natural born US citizens. And likely even farther back than that. The thing that could be construed as racist, is making the assumption that every Hispanic individual looking for work is a migrant, or undocumented worker. I would never make that assumption in this sensitive climate.
> 
> ...


If you are a white painter in California, Aren't you a minority?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Vinyl 54X said:


> If you are a white painter in California, Aren't you a minority?



Given the growing Hispanic population in California, and given the proclivity of working class White, Black, Asian, and Hispanic parents to encourage their children to pursue educations and careers outside of the labor trades, it would be fair to assume that the construction/building and service labor force is supported primarily by entry level skilled workers from the most obvious demographics. And in California, that would likely be from countries south of the southern borders.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> Spoken like a true Northern Californian. (inside joke*)..."Ok you don't have to be so politically correct! You actually meant to say "migrants" i believe*. In San Diego they hold up little signs telling people what skill they have. There will typically be 10-15 of them outside Lowe's and Home Depot every morning".


 
The whole point I was making was in response to your suggestion that I be more clear identifying the people I was referring to in my earlier post. Being a resident in an immensely Liberal region of the US, I've learned to survive by avoiding race and gender identity. As a white straight male citizen, the last thing I want to be identified here, is as a MAGA yelling yahoo with American flags waving in support of my patriotism. That's straight up racism. On the other hand, self deprecation and empathy is completely expected and accepted.


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

Vinyl 54X said:


> If you are a white painter in California, Aren't you a minority?


If you're a white painter almost anywhere in the US, you might be a minority.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Brushman4 said:


> If you're a white painter almost anywhere in the US, you might be a minority.


What do you think has contributed to whites likely becoming a minority among painters, and potentially other construction trades?


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

CApainter said:


> Given the growing Hispanic population in California, and given the proclivity of working class White, Black, Asian, and Hispanic parents to encourage their children to pursue educations and careers outside of the labor trades, it would be fair to assume that the construction/building and service labor force is supported primarily by entry level skilled workers from the most obvious demographics. And in California, that would likely be from countries south of the southern borders.


It might be said that Hispanics have always been a large part of California considering that it was originally settled by Spain/Mexico.

I was looking at population totals of each state according to the 1920 US Census, very interesting numbers, at least they were to me! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1920_United_States_Census


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> The whole point I was making was in response to your suggestion that I be more clear identifying the people I was referring to in my earlier post. Being a resident in an immensely Liberal region of the US, I've learned to survive by avoiding race and gender identity. As a white straight male citizen, the last thing I want to be identified here, is as a MAGA yelling yahoo with American flags waving in support of my patriotism. That's straight up racism. On the other hand, self deprecation and empathy is completely expected and accepted.


Hmm. Norcal. Gotta love it!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> The whole point I was making was in response to your suggestion that I be more clear identifying the people I was referring to in my earlier post. Being a resident in an immensely Liberal region of the US, I've learned to survive by avoiding race and gender identity. As a white straight male citizen, the last thing I want to be identified here, is as a MAGA yelling yahoo with American flags waving in support of my patriotism. That's straight up racism. On the other hand, self deprecation and empathy is completely expected and accepted.


You should have heard what my ex-girfriend referred to them as. And she was Mexican. From a pretty wealthy family but...you wouldn't believe the class distinctions they have in Mexico. And they can be very verbal about it.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

you do have to give those guys that wait outside Lowe's and Home Depot some credit for at least trying to find work rather than just begging for money. (oh crap! Now I'm assuming their gender! Glad i don't live in nazi California anymore or i'd be in BIG trouble for that!)


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

CApainter said:


> What do you think has contributed to whites likely becoming a minority among painters, and potentially other construction trades?


I know that in my area since the early 2000s as the trade got slower and slower instead of keeping the existing members going the Union went on all-out recruiting drive signing up many minority painters. When the 2008 recession/depression hit most of us were at home twiddling our thumbs, the only ones working were the contractor's relatives.

Most of the other Unions, electricians, plumbers, pipefitters, operating engineers froze their hiring and cut back on the number of apprentices they brought on board. The painters/tapers and carpenters continued to bring anybody on if they were willing to pay the initiation fee and of course their dues!

Also, it goes back to the average middle-class kids wanting to go to college and getting a desk job instead of working in the trades, hell even the police and fire departments want a two year degree or paramedic training to accept an applicant.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> you do have to give those guys that wait outside Lowe's and Home Depot some credit for at least trying to find work rather than just begging for money. (oh crap! Now I'm assuming their gender! Glad i don't live in nazi California anymore or i'd be in BIG trouble for that!)



Ha! It's hysterical how you get so worked up about California. Especially from someone who lives in a Blue State. lol. 


And frankly, a true conservative would support border controls rather than tolerate depleting resources, including job displacement.


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

CApainter said:


> Ha! It's hysterical how you get so worked up about California. Especially from someone who lives in a Blue State. lol.
> 
> 
> And frankly, a true conservative would support border controls rather than tolerate depleting resources, including job displacement.


Trump won Ohio in 2016, and Ohio is considered a red, not blue state! https://www.cincinnati.com/story/ne...tuesdays-midterm-election-results/1915179002/


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## Fman (Aug 20, 2011)

PACman said:


> You should have heard what my ex-girfriend referred to them as. And she was Mexican. From a pretty wealthy family but...you wouldn't believe the class distinctions they have in Mexico. And they can be very verbal about it.


Racism and ignorance is by no means a strictly American domain! We just always claim we're #1 at everything. Of course, last couple of years...


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Let's keep the politics in the Outhouse where it belongs. 

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

Brushman4 said:


> Trump won Ohio in 2016, and Ohio is considered a red, not blue state! https://www.cincinnati.com/story/ne...tuesdays-midterm-election-results/1915179002/


Like every other state in the Union, metro areas blue, rural areas red.

No Republican has ever been elected without winning Ohio.


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## hammerhead (Feb 18, 2014)

wow this took a right turn quickly


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## PNW Painter (Sep 5, 2013)

Pretty soon we’ll be talking about the best way to cut-in ceilings


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

PNW Painter said:


> Pretty soon we’ll be talking about the best way to cut-in ceilings
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


With a brush!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Hey guys, i'm a professional painter and i was wondering how to use a roller.

Dang i did it again! I meant to say "hey gender of your current preference" to keep the Californian happy! I'll never get that right. Maybe that's why i moved back to Ohio.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Brushman4 said:


> Trump won Ohio in 2016, and Ohio is considered a red, not blue state! https://www.cincinnati.com/story/ne...tuesdays-midterm-election-results/1915179002/


I thought PAC was from PA. What do I know. Anyway, let's all pull in for a big hug.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> I thought PAC was from PA. What do I know. Anyway, let's all pull in for a big hug.


Just keep your hands above the waist ok?


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

In the last six weeks or so there has been an unbelievable amount of Valspar/Lowe's commercial on tv in this area. Every time I watch a ballgame or the local news or Jeopardy here comes another commercial. My wife has even asked why so many of these commercials are on her daytime shows? It seems that SW is pushing the Valspar brand heavily since they bought them out! https://www.ispot.tv/ad/Ih83/lowes-paint-it-right-valspar-simplicity-paint


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Brushman4 said:


> In the last six weeks or so there has been an unbelievable amount of Valspar/Lowe's commercial on tv in this area. Every time I watch a ballgame or the local news or Jeopardy here comes another commercial. My wife has even asked why so many of these commercials are on her daytime shows? It seems that SW is pushing the Valspar brand heavily since they bought them out! https://www.ispot.tv/ad/Ih83/lowes-paint-it-right-valspar-simplicity-paint


They're trying to get people conditioned to go to Lowe's for paint so it won't be such a shock when they close all the SW stores and move them into Lowe's stores.


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

PACman said:


> They're trying to get people conditioned to go to Lowe's for paint so it won't be such a shock when they close all the SW stores and move them into Lowe's stores.



If they do that, Lowes had better start carrying Duration, Superpaint, ProClassic, etc., or SW is going to lose a ton of money. There are too many products used by contractors not available at Lowes, and I can't imagine Lowes devoting a ton more shelf space. I guess time will tell.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

If SW is going to distribute all of their product line exclusively through Lowes, Lowes will need to steer more towards the contractor market, like HD, rather than to the DIY'er homeowner market like they are now. I mean, Lowes is a good store. But it's just a little light in the tradesman department.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

He he heeee. I know something you all don't! Can't tell.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> He he heeee. I know something you all don't! Can't tell.



Oh my! The suspense is killing me. lol!


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## Fman (Aug 20, 2011)

PACman said:


> He he heeee. I know something you all don't! Can't tell.


Didn't we do this a couple months ago? How'd that one turn out?


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

Fman said:


> Didn't we do this a couple months ago? How'd that one turn out?


Could PAC be a double agent for SW?


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Fman said:


> Didn't we do this a couple months ago? How'd that one turn out?


same secret. I never told. I could get myself in trouble. But i know. I know.:devil3:


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

lets just say the precedent has been set, and it will be a TON of fun for everyone involved! 
(look for a certain PPG thread for a clue)


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

I dont believe for a second they are gonna close all the SW stores. I COULD see closing some of the smaller ones, but the commercial stores?


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Woodco said:


> I dont believe for a second they are gonna close all the SW stores. I COULD see closing some of the smaller ones, but the commercial stores?


Y'alls heads are going to explode of Pacman spills the beans.

Here is the ppg thread previously mentioned
https://www.painttalk.com/f2/say-bye-bye-flood-brand-canada-94097/


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Woodco said:


> I dont believe for a second they are gonna close all the SW stores. I COULD see closing some of the smaller ones, but the commercial stores?


I agree. Especially when the new trend is "DIFM" instead of DIY

Bloomberg report:
"Sherwin is seeing earnings margins benefit, too, as it can eke out more profit by selling paint directly through its stores than it can through retailers such as Lowe’s. Gross margins at its own stores are almost 50 percent compared with about 40 percent for paints sold through other retailers, though most of the difference is given back to contractors who expect superior service and steep discounts for buying in bulk, Silversteyn said."


More at this Link https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ntmakers-cater-to-a-new-favorite-do-it-for-me


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## mug (Dec 22, 2010)

It seems like every time I go to Lowe's they are having their stupid huddle all around the paint department, out into the isles and even plop their arses down on top of the paint counters.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Looks like I put this thread to bed at post 60. You took to long PACKY!


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## PNW Painter (Sep 5, 2013)

What the heck does DIFM mean?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PNW Painter said:


> What the heck does DIFM mean?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Do-It-For-Me


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> Looks like I put this thread to bed at post 60. You took to long PACKY!


sorry, but i take the sabbath off from work. Well actually i was away from my computer this weekend. But anyhow you should be working for CNN! The way you just posted a small part of the story to win your argument! Store profits are only a small part of the overall picture. SW owns the property that most of their stores are on. That means massive property taxes every year. As well as maintenance and utilities. Then there is the cost of hiring college graduates to run their stores. Lots of overhead that comes out of that 50% margin they are getting at their stores that ISN'T coming out of the 40% they are making from the box stores. Plus the cost of marketing those stores and the inventory they have to keep in them. And the 12% interest on inventory tax they pay on that inventory every year. I used to see the bottom line number on all the stores in San Diego and typically after all of the overhead (or "loss" on the "profit and loss" report) stores were actually getting around 25-27% margin and i am pretty sure that is close to what they are actually getting across the country now. So eliminate all of those costs from your lowest margin generating stores and it is a huge profit to the shareholders. Letting someone else foot the bill to sell your product is the way things happen these days. (Amazon for example)

Anyway the "secret" i am referring to doesn't have anything to do with the possibility of moving SW stores into Lowe's, although i am pretty certain that market forces will cause that to start happening in the near future. This particular "secret" has to do with product and production more than anything else.

But trust me it will be a lot of fun for everyone when it happens. You're going to love it!


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> sorry, but i take the sabbath off from work. Well actually i was away from my computer this weekend. But anyhow you should be working for CNN! The way you just posted a small part of the story to win your argument! Store profits are only a small part of the overall picture. SW owns the property that most of their stores are on. That means massive property taxes every year. As well as maintenance and utilities. Then there is the cost of hiring college graduates to run their stores. Lots of overhead that comes out of that 50% margin they are getting at their stores that ISN'T coming out of the 40% they are making from the box stores. Plus the cost of marketing those stores and the inventory they have to keep in them. And the 12% interest on inventory tax they pay on that inventory every year. I used to see the bottom line number on all the stores in San Diego and typically after all of the overhead (or "loss" on the "profit and loss" report) stores were actually getting around 25-27% margin and i am pretty sure that is close to what they are actually getting across the country now. So eliminate all of those costs from your lowest margin generating stores and it is a huge profit to the shareholders. Letting someone else foot the bill to sell your product is the way things happen these days. (Amazon for example)
> 
> Anyway the "secret" i am referring to doesn't have anything to do with the possibility of moving SW stores into Lowe's, although i am pretty certain that market forces will cause that to start happening in the near future. This particular "secret" has to do with product and production more than anything else.
> 
> *But trust me it will be a lot of fun for everyone when it happens. You're going to love it! *


 
I think the more important question is, will whatever your secret is, help you? Particularly, if it provides you with the option to invest.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> I think the more important question is, will whatever your secret is, help you? Particularly, if it provides you with the option to invest.


Probably not. I've seen way too many painters get so pissed off at SW that they swore they would never buy from them again go back to buying from them after a week or so. So no. You painters will probably not stop buying from them after all is said and done. Even if the devil himself ran the company.:devil3:


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> Probably not. I've seen way too many painters get so pissed off at SW that they swore they would never buy from them again go back to buying from them after a week or so. So no. You painters will probably not stop buying from them after all is said and done. Even if the devil himself ran the company.:devil3:


 
I know you're not suggesting we painters are ignorant fools who are incapable of making sound decisions, or worse yet, malicious culprits participating in a global corporate scheme. But it may be true that a business like Sherwin Williams has made itself a convenient and accessible supplier that painters will continue to use as a resource, despite the short falls.


You can't fault businesses that are exploiting the demands of an ever expanding society. Not everyplace on the planet has the luxury of having a wholesome little Mom and Pop shop where Harold Smallington enjoys chit chatting the morning away with Bobby Toolbit from Bobby's Painting and Tractor Greasing. 


Norman Rockwell has to be rolling in his grave.


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## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

"You can't fault businesses that are exploiting the demands of an ever expanding society. Not everyplace on the planet has the luxury of having a wholesome little Mom and Pop shop where Harold Smallington enjoys chit chatting the morning away with Bobby Toolbit from Bobby's Painting and Tractor Greasing." @CApainter

^^^^^Quote of the month right there and I agree with it. My local hardware store carries the lower end version of California Paints. I've tried so very hard to be loyal to the local business, but, alas, they don't stock much, my colors get screwed up from time to time, and their lower end stuff is worse than ProMar 400. I continue to stick it out with SW, and, I can't recall any of my customers complaining about the SW paint quality.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

oh they will, they will. heeheeheee!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Gymschu said:


> "You can't fault businesses that are exploiting the demands of an ever expanding society. Not everyplace on the planet has the luxury of having a wholesome little Mom and Pop shop where Harold Smallington enjoys chit chatting the morning away with Bobby Toolbit from Bobby's Painting and Tractor Greasing." @CApainter
> 
> ^^^^^Quote of the month right there and I agree with it. My local hardware store carries the lower end version of California Paints. I've tried so very hard to be loyal to the local business, but, alas, they don't stock much, my colors get screwed up from time to time, and their lower end stuff is worse than ProMar 400. I continue to stick it out with SW, and, I can't recall any of my customers complaining about the SW paint quality.


uh,no.


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## Fman (Aug 20, 2011)

PACman said:


> Probably not. I've seen way too many painters get so pissed off at SW that they swore they would never buy from them again go back to buying from them after a week or so. So no. You painters will probably not stop buying from them after all is said and done. Even if the devil himself ran the company.:devil3:


"...the devil himself..."????!!!

Uh oh- He who shall not be named is going to NATIONALIZE THE PAINT STORES????!!!!


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

PACman said:


> Probably not. I've seen way too many painters get so pissed off at SW that they swore they would never buy from them again go back to buying from them after a week or so. So no. You painters will probably not stop buying from them after all is said and done. Even if the devil himself ran the company.:devil3:


As the Stones would say, So if you meet me, have some courtesy
Have some sympathy, and some taste.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=sympathy+for+the+devil


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Fman said:


> "...the devil himself..."????!!!
> 
> Uh oh- He who shall not be named is going to NATIONALIZE THE PAINT STORES????!!!!



"Trump Orange" in an ultra ultra high gloss primer finish, could be the new trend. Believe me!


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## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

PACman said:


> uh,no.


It's pretty bad stuff, sorry PAC. Maybe I need to work with it more, but coverage was poor doing white over white. I'll keep trying, but.......


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Gymschu said:


> It's pretty bad stuff, sorry PAC. Maybe I need to work with it more, but coverage was poor doing white over white. I'll keep trying, but.......


which product? was it a Greyseal product or a Cali product. The lowest line in Cali i know of is Preference, which i agree isn't a particularly good product and i don't sell much of it. But i do have a couple of rental painters who use it and like it because it hides better than 400. They are using a factory color though so that may be the difference. I do charge less for it than a typical Cali dealer would though because i am trying to get more low end rental repaint business. Sometimes the price makes a product seem like it's not such a good value. If they are charging more for it than SW is charging for 400 than yes, it may not seem like a very good paint at that price.


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## celicaxx (May 29, 2015)

PACman said:


> which product? was it a Greyseal product or a Cali product. The lowest line in Cali i know of is Preference, which i agree isn't a particularly good product and i don't sell much of it. But i do have a couple of rental painters who use it and like it because it hides better than 400. They are using a factory color though so that may be the difference. I do charge less for it than a typical Cali dealer would though because i am trying to get more low end rental repaint business. Sometimes the price makes a product seem like it's not such a good value. If they are charging more for it than SW is charging for 400 than yes, it may not seem like a very good paint at that price.


Unrelated to Cali, but related to SW and Lowes. I think quite honestly Valspar 2000 is the best cheapie paint on the market, especially for rentals and the like. The only thing a little bad about it is with harsh cleaners the sheen can change (straight ammonia.) Other than that, covers and handles great, and is super cheap. I bought PM200... once, wasn't really too impressed. Then I realized as I read on here, Valspar 2000 is superior because supposedly an ex-SW chemist working for Valspar made it. I think Valspar 2000 is actually superior to Ultra Spec, though I think Ultra Spec eggshell is tougher, Ultra Spec flat is definitely not washable, whereas the Valspar 2000 flat (at least the formula from a couple years ago...) is actually washable (though unsuitable as a ceiling paint due to having a tiny tiny sheen...) So I will be really mad if SW pulls the Valspar line from Lowes for this reason, I really love Valspar 2000. I even have the semi-gloss on my interior stairs in my house and it's held up super well getting stepped on with shoes on. I do get the feeling SW may in fact kill that Valspar line, though, in that if it was more well known it could kill SW sales, similar to how Solo was better than Proclassic and cheaper per gallon, so it just wasn't on the shelf at SW.


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## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

This is the paint. Like I said, I would love to be able to use it more to support my local peeps. It is a bit better if tinted to a gray or a cream, but, the stock white is awful. I mostly buy the semi-gloss version interior/exterior. I pay $38.99/gallon for it.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Gymschu said:


> This is the paint. Like I said, I would love to be able to use it more to support my local peeps. It is a bit better if tinted to a gray or a cream, but, the stock white is awful. I mostly buy the semi-gloss version interior/exterior. I pay $38.99/gallon for it.


That's one of the product lines i don't carry. I'm not a big fan of "interior/exterior" products because there is always a compromise somewhere. In this case it probably has increased resin to achieve exterior requirements at the detriment of pigment solids. Try the lo-voc interior Calpro or Propaint exterior. I actually think they are better products myself, although that may just be my anti-"int/ext" bias.


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## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

PAC, just wanted you to know that sometimes us SW guys TRY to branch out, but, when the results aren't there, well..... This store carries the interior/exterior version because they can't afford to stock separate interior and exterior lines. I understand that and I'll still use it on some jobs.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Gymschu said:


> PAC, just wanted you to know that sometimes us SW guys TRY to branch out, but, when the results aren't there, well..... This store carries the interior/exterior version because they can't afford to stock separate interior and exterior lines. I understand that and I'll still use it on some jobs.


where are you getting it from a way over there in Appalachia?


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## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

PACman said:


> where are you getting it from a way over there in Appalachia?


Local Hardware store. I've done business with them for a long time. They originally carried PPG, then went to Harrison Paint, DoItBest, Grayseal, and now California. They are thinking that they may no longer be able to get California paints for some reason. I'd like to direct them to a paint line that would accept smaller orders of paint. Most companies (as you know, PACman) have a minimum order of paint you have to purchase to do business with them. They can't afford to stock $5,000 worth of paint per month. In a good month, they may sell $2 - $3,000 worth.


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## SW2PPG (Jun 14, 2019)

PACman said:


> sorry, but i take the sabbath off from work. Well actually i was away from my computer this weekend. But anyhow you should be working for CNN! The way you just posted a small part of the story to win your argument! Store profits are only a small part of the overall picture. SW owns the property that most of their stores are on. That means massive property taxes every year. As well as maintenance and utilities. Then there is the cost of hiring college graduates to run their stores. Lots of overhead that comes out of that 50% margin they are getting at their stores that ISN'T coming out of the 40% they are making from the box stores. Plus the cost of marketing those stores and the inventory they have to keep in them. And the 12% interest on inventory tax they pay on that inventory every year. I used to see the bottom line number on all the stores in San Diego and typically after all of the overhead (or "loss" on the "profit and loss" report) stores were actually getting around 25-27% margin and i am pretty sure that is close to what they are actually getting across the country now. So eliminate all of those costs from your lowest margin generating stores and it is a huge profit to the shareholders. Letting someone else foot the bill to sell your product is the way things happen these days. (Amazon for example)
> 
> Anyway the "secret" i am referring to doesn't have anything to do with the possibility of moving SW stores into Lowe's, although i am pretty certain that market forces will cause that to start happening in the near future. This particular "secret" has to do with product and production more than anything else.
> 
> But trust me it will be a lot of fun for everyone when it happens. You're going to love it!


This will be the end of SW.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

SW2PPG said:


> This will be the end of SW.


true. But in reality it is pretty much the same thing that is happening to the independent stores. They can't sell enough product at a high enough profit to stay open, so the manufacturers move their products into the box stores. It's just going to be SW's turn that's all. They are big enough that they have been able to stave off the inevitable longer than anyone else. It may be 5 years, it may be 20. But the fact is that stand alone paint stores are dinosaurs just like every other stand alone specialty store is. Add in internet sales and boom! Gone. And before long what do you have? Less competition which causes quality to go down and prices to go up, because those 2-3 competitors have to spend more and more in marketing to draw in customers to buy crappier and crappier paint.


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

PACman said:


> true. But in reality it is pretty much the same thing that is happening to the independent stores. They can't sell enough product at a high enough profit to stay open, so the manufacturers move their products into the box stores. It's just going to be SW's turn that's all. They are big enough that they have been able to stave off the inevitable longer than anyone else. It may be 5 years, it may be 20. But the fact is that stand alone paint stores are dinosaurs just like every other stand alone specialty store is. Add in internet sales and boom! Gone. And before long what do you have? Less competition which causes quality to go down and prices to go up, because those 2-3 competitors have to spend more and more in marketing to draw in customers to buy crappier and crappier paint.


Pac, now is the time for you to step up in the fight against the big box and factory stores.

You mentioned you were poised to move to a more visible location, have you given up on that idea?


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## celicaxx (May 29, 2015)

PACman said:


> true. But in reality it is pretty much the same thing that is happening to the independent stores. They can't sell enough product at a high enough profit to stay open, so the manufacturers move their products into the box stores. It's just going to be SW's turn that's all. They are big enough that they have been able to stave off the inevitable longer than anyone else. It may be 5 years, it may be 20. But the fact is that stand alone paint stores are dinosaurs just like every other stand alone specialty store is. Add in internet sales and boom! Gone. And before long what do you have? Less competition which causes quality to go down and prices to go up, because those 2-3 competitors have to spend more and more in marketing to draw in customers to buy crappier and crappier paint.


I'm really friendly with the guys at my local SW store. They're actually really great. One I'm well acquainted with told me their store's rent in a building on a main road in our town of 30K people in the Northeast is $15K per month. He told me as well the store essentially did not make a profit. 

As far as fighting the boxes and online, well, again, you have bloated commercial real estate pricing to deal with, not really working on supply and demand, but more on cartel principles. As well I think an argument could be made that zoning laws could be to blame, since you can't just buy a house and decide it's a paint store now, like you can do in much of Asia where retail is still super strong. 

The only retail stores I know that do really well are people involved in a niche activity, that purchased their stores outright in places that were not seen as profitable/were sort of in the middle of nowhere, then with the internet and some advertising got people to come to them deliberately, rather than waiting for people to "pass by" and "stop in."


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Brushman4 said:


> Pac, now is the time for you to step up in the fight against the big box and factory stores.
> 
> You mentioned you were poised to move to a more visible location, have you given up on that idea?


I'm actually working on not having a brick an mortar store and selling online. Not paint though but paint brushes. That's where the growth potential is. It still takes time and money. Just no rent!


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

PACman said:


> I'm actually working on not having a brick an mortar store and selling online. Not paint though but paint brushes. That's where the growth potential is. It still takes time and money. Just no rent!


If you ever decide to sell Ultraplate online you'll have me as a customer. 

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

I remember years ago when I saw a cheap line of Graco go into Home Despot. Smh. Now they're in Lows too (i'm aware...Depot & Lowe's, it's intentional). Anyone know if you can now buy the real stuff (i.e. 695 and up) from the big boxes?


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Lightningboy65 said:


> I remember years ago when I saw a cheap line of Graco go into Home Despot. Smh. Now they're in Lows too (i'm aware...Depot & Lowe's, it's intentional). Anyone know if you can now buy the real stuff (i.e. 695 and up) from the big boxes?



Nope. Dont bother with the cheap ones either. 50-100 gallons and theyre toast.


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Nope. Dont bother with the cheap ones either. 50-100 gallons and their toast.


Amen to that! Going to be a real pain buying a sprayer local when all the real paint stores are shuttered!


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