# What paint did you use last?



## celicaxx (May 29, 2015)

This is a little different question than often asked here, but I think it'd be an interesting discussion to see what people use in real life day to day on jobs, instead of discussing what paint is _ideal._ Also it's possibly a way to get some consistent activity on this board as a thread idea. It's sort of like a "What song are you listening to now?" discussion.

So I'll start, my lowly mentions but nonetheless mentions.

Primer:
Valspar Stain Blocking Bonding Primer.

Paints:
Zinsser Permawhite and SW Solo in satin stock white.

Use case:
Fiberglass/vinyl? door trim for the bonding primer, SW Solo on that, and the primer on some shelves in a closet and Zinsser Permawhite since I used it last on a closet downstairs in their house that had moisture issues, but had 3/4 of a gallon left from that job.

Opinions about the paint:
The Valspar bonding primer is a decent buy for $27 a gallon, definitely way better than Bullseye 1-2-3 in current day, it has a very thick yogurt-like consistency sorta similar to some BM paints, but brushes really well and lays out nice, without sagging or running. Coverage seems really good, too, though it's grayed out quite a lot compared to even Zinnser Permawhite, but it's a primer so that's fine. For adhesion, everything so far seems to be sticking nicely and I can't fingernail it off cleaned fiberglass/vinyl, but I was a bit worried in that I had some come off with a rag while caulking even after being dry overnight. Overall topcoated though, it seems very adequate and invincible to fingernails topcoated with only a couple day cure. Testing stainblocking ability on the closet shelves that had various weird stains on them from leaking cleaning supplies/etc, since they're closet shelves it's not critical like a ceiling water spot, so it's a good test, good first time using the primer. So far it's not as good as Aqualock, the best WB bonding primer I've ever used, but I'd put it above Bullseye and Promar with the caveat that maybe it's a bit too thick to use as a general drywall primer. 

Zinsser Permawhite is a paint I don't see liked much here either, but I think it's a decent bathroom paint, and potentially a trim paint, though it doesn't dry crazy hard, it flows and levels well, but it's very thin, so if you hate thin paints it's bad, but if you like them it's not bad. Sorta firmly "it's paint" but I do come back to it/like it for some reason. It also definitely does work in moldy environments as well, and lives up to its marketing.

SW Solo I'm using is quite a old gallon from 2015 or 2016 I got on sale from my local SW a couple years ago. I liked Solo better than Proclassic at one point, it seemed like a better handling version of it, and this gallon is pre-formula change/something happening I encountered in 2017. If your local SW can get it in and you're normally a latex Proclassic user, SW Solo could be potentially a step up at maybe some cost savings. I like having it around as it's interior/exterior rated so having one stock white satin or semi-gloss paint you can use inside and out on door frames/etc is great.

Obviously a complete essay review of the paint or talking about the job in extreme detail isn't required, but as per the board's name, let's talk about what paint we used last.


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## Hissing Cobra (Feb 24, 2014)

I only do interior work and use PPG's "Gripper" latex based primer or Benjamin Moore's "Fresh Start" oil based primer. Of course, the oil based is much better for stain blocking power. As for trim paint and wall paint, I use Benjamin Moore's Regal Classic in Semi-Gloss for trim and Eggshell for walls. All of these products are a dream to work with.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

this is the first budget job i have done. super hide zero walls and sk5000 acrylic/alkyd thinned about 5% and sprayed all doors one coat with a 310 and stacked. perhaps the dirtiest place I have ever been in there was what looked like formerly spaghetti sauce on the bedroom ceiling. there was some adhesive residue we absolutely could not get off the cabinets. boogers all over the doors. the bathrooms... 500watt lights .. yuck!


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## jennifertemple (Oct 30, 2011)

SICO Evolution Interior Paint and Primer - Eggshell Finish (PPG) A true, self priming paint! Amazing! Better still, almost 600'sq per gallon. Nice finish. Forget trying to clean roller sleeves! Regular price CAD $61.99 BUT can often be found on sale for $49.59. I was forced to find a new paint due to pandemic supply issues but from now on, this will be my first choice for wall paint!


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## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

1-2-3 primer on new drywall (just because I was out of Freshstart, it was a weekend, and all I had was Lowe's, but I've never had any reason to complain about 1-2-3 either. Just prefer the FreshStart.)
ScuffX Matte (walls)
and...SW "Showcase" white semi - one of those "HGTV" things. This was also because it was a weekend and all I had was Lowe's. This was poor planning on my part, but the excuse is that it was at my own house. So, if you've never used Showcase, it's neither horrid nor great. It seems to have really good adhesion, esp judging by how hard it was to clean my brushes and hands. On the other hand, coverage was not great at all. It has that frustrating kind of translucence that you find in some whites. And while it brushed/rolled relatively "ok" without setting up too awfully fast it also didn't level worth a damn. If you like to easily see your tool marks, then I'd recommend it for that. 😝


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

We usually scuff x satin on cabinets but the HO specified Sherwin Emerald trim urethane. Sometimes I will talk a client out of something but I was actually interested in trying it as it had been a few years since I'd sprayed it but remember that it laid down pretty nicely. I remember the satin being very dull so we went with semi-gloss. That was probably a mistake as the semi-gloss was quite shiny, and I believe they've reformulated the satin to make it a bit shinier. It does indeed lay down nicely but like anything that does it can get away from you a bit on the verticals if you don't keep that fact in mind.


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## celicaxx (May 29, 2015)

Joe67 said:


> 1-2-3 primer on new drywall (just because I was out of Freshstart, it was a weekend, and all I had was Lowe's, but I've never had any reason to complain about 1-2-3 either. Just prefer the FreshStart.)
> ScuffX Matte (walls)
> and...SW "Showcase" white semi - one of those "HGTV" things. This was also because it was a weekend and all I had was Lowe's. This was poor planning on my part, but the excuse is that it was at my own house. So, if you've never used Showcase, it's neither horrid nor great. It seems to have really good adhesion, esp judging by how hard it was to clean my brushes and hands. On the other hand, coverage was not great at all. It has that frustrating kind of translucence that you find in some whites. And while it brushed/rolled relatively "ok" without setting up too awfully fast it also didn't level worth a damn. If you like to easily see your tool marks, then I'd recommend it for that. 😝


Oddly out of the Lowes wall paints I think Valspar Signature might be the best. Though I never used the HGTV Home SW stuff, to be fair. I found Signature levels fairly well but can run a bit. I think I'd firmly place it somewhere around SW Superpaint in end finish result and coverage, maybe a good bit better.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

In an interesting turn of events, I sprayed some doors (4) today with Advance Matte finish, with..wait for it..my hvlp. 2.0 tip thinned about 10%ish.. I'm going to clear them after. There is no Advance 792 1X base on the whole island, so oppted to go this route. It was a deep base colour, so felt better clearing it anyhow.
Got me thinking how the Matte finish would probably be really nice for a high stairwell or something because of the long open time.. 🤷‍♀️ Has anyone used the Advance Matte on walls??


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

Farrell Calhoun 401 Ceiling White on some popcorn today. $16/g. Worked like a charm.....


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

finishesbykevyn said:


> In an interesting turn of events, I sprayed some doors (4) today with Advance Matte finish, with..wait for it..my hvlp. 2.0 tip thinned about 10%ish.. I'm going to clear them after. There is no Advance 792 1X base on the whole island, so oppted to go this route. It was a deep base colour, so felt better clearing it anyhow.
> Got me thinking how the Matte finish would probably be really nice for a high stairwell or something because of the long open time.. 🤷‍♀️ Has anyone use the Advance Matte on walls?


I haven't tried Advance on walls, that'd be interesting to see. What clear are you using?


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## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

celicaxx said:


> Oddly out of the Lowes wall paints I think Valspar Signature might be the best. Though I never used the HGTV Home SW stuff, to be fair. I found Signature levels fairly well but can run a bit. I think I'd firmly place it somewhere around SW Superpaint in end finish result and coverage, maybe a good bit better.


I ended up in the Valspar signature once when the HOs supplied the paint. (Not up to me as I just work for another guy). It was just for a bathroom repaint after a minor remodel, and yeah, it was fine and I'd say right around on par with Superpaint too.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

fromthenorthwest said:


> I haven't tried Advance on walls, that'd be interesting to see. What clear are you using?


Saman Waterborne Poly. As I know it's compatible with Advance.


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## monarchski (Jun 21, 2019)

celicaxx said:


> This is a little different question than often asked here, but I think it'd be an interesting discussion to see what people use in real life day to day on jobs, instead of discussing what paint is _ideal._ Also it's possibly a way to get some consistent activity on this board as a thread idea. It's sort of like a "What song are you listening to now?" discussion.
> 
> So I'll start, my lowly mentions but nonetheless mentions.
> 
> ...


Might be a good thing the Solo was an old can. They've reformulated that product and it's a soft finish now. Don't care for it.


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## celicaxx (May 29, 2015)

monarchski said:


> Might be a good thing the Solo was an old can. They've reformulated that product and it's a soft finish now. Don't care for it.


Thanks for chiming in, I had what I thought was a bad batch of the semi-gloss in 2017 and it was soft and awful, but I didn't know if it was just humid conditions or getting a bad batch, etc. Sad it's permanently reformulated now, maybe I'll get a gallon of the Behr urethane alkyd in white as a general use interior/exterior trim paint, but this old gallon has been as awesome as I remember.


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## ttd (Sep 30, 2010)

Interior Duration flat and Emerald Urethane which is improved sheen wise, but still has gritty finish. Can’t believe S-W didn’t fix that.


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## dwb (12 mo ago)

S W pro mar 200 eggshell/S W Ultra white. Hospital new constructio/ceilings @bulkheads Its our main coating,we use thousands of gallons of it a year


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## ParamountPaint (Aug 25, 2016)

Emerald interior matte.

Had to drive to another state for 3 gallons, which is obnoxious. 

Long running remodel of a vacation home.


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

ParamountPaint said:


> Emerald interior matte.
> 
> Had to drive to another state for 3 gallons, which is obnoxious.
> 
> Long running remodel of a vacation home.


Been there done that. Before the holidays I bought the last 3 gallons of Cashmere LL that they had at the store in the town I was working in, which is 45 miles up the road from me. Of course I ran out and needed 1 more gallon, which they had at a store 45 more miles up the road from the job. I went to get it and brought it back to the original store to have it tinted. And THEY charged ME a supply chain charge!


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## celicaxx (May 29, 2015)

Varathane "One Coat" oil based stain + Minwax Polycrylic in satin on some door casings. 

I really like Polycrylic. I do get a couple very tiny bubbles and it does set up quick, but it dries nice and hard and looks really great overall, but it's such a pleasure to not be huffing oil based fumes and washing brushes out with water. Dry time is a plus in that you can do multiple coats in a day, too. I'll definitely try to use it more often now instead of oil based poly, just because it's so much more pleasant to work with. I think for table tops I'd still prefer oil based overall, if anything for chemical resistance, but for things that don't need to be "abuse resistant" I'm really liking Polycrylic and its ease of use is great.


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## Respec (Sep 13, 2015)

We just finished a house that was Advance satin on the trim and Regal matte and Scuff-x matte on the walls. I had priced it with Aura on the trim, which I wish I had used, because it covers better, but the home owner really liked Advance. I personally like the Aura better. Covers better and easier to work with. Now we just started a cabinet job and sprayed ML Campbell Aqualfi primer and will be trying out ML Campbell Arroyo 1K for the finish. I haven't used this product before.


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

celicaxx said:


> Varathane "One Coat" oil based stain + Minwax Polycrylic in satin on some door casings.
> 
> I really like Polycrylic. I do get a couple very tiny bubbles and it does set up quick, but it dries nice and hard and looks really great overall, but it's such a pleasure to not be huffing oil based fumes and washing brushes out with water. Dry time is a plus in that you can do multiple coats in a day, too. I'll definitely try to use it more often now instead of oil based poly, just because it's so much more pleasant to work with. I think for table tops I'd still prefer oil based overall, if anything for chemical resistance, but for things that don't need to be "abuse resistant" I'm really liking Polycrylic and its ease of use is great.


Another nice water based polyurethane is Old Master's Master's Armor. It's got a hardener that comes with it.. did a whole interior trim package with it, and the stuff is nearly bulletproof.


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

Respec said:


> We just finished a house that was Advance satin on the trim and Regal matte and Scuff-x matte on the walls. I had priced it with Aura on the trim, which I wish I had used, because it covers better, but the home owner really liked Advance. I personally like the Aura better. Covers better and easier to work with. Now we just started a cabinet job and sprayed ML Campbell Aqualfi primer and will be trying out ML Campbell Arroyo 1K for the finish. I haven't used this product before.


I'm curious to find out how that Arroyo works for you. The owner of a local shop near me said he may start carrying it.


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## celicaxx (May 29, 2015)

Respec said:


> We just finished a house that was Advance satin on the trim and Regal matte and Scuff-x matte on the walls. I had priced it with Aura on the trim, which I wish I had used, because it covers better, but the home owner really liked Advance. I personally like the Aura better. Covers better and easier to work with. Now we just started a cabinet job and sprayed ML Campbell Aqualfi primer and will be trying out ML Campbell Arroyo 1K for the finish. I haven't used this product before.


I've used Aura on trim before and it's... interesting.

You're definitely right about it covering better than Advance, but I found it drastically different to work with, not really worse once I got the hang of it, but you need to be quick with it and I couldn't backbrush nearly as much as I could with Advance, where I could tip everything off at the end from it staying open so long. Aura you just have to put it on and leave it once it's on, which I find harder to do with trim paints personally. For some stuff like big crown moulding I found a rhythm of sorts that let me apply it with good coverage without runs/sags and without brush marks, but on things like door frames and casings I found it a little difficult. It did seem to dry well, too, but I wasn't at the job to see how it did for a week long cure, etc, to see if it eventually got super hard or not.

I find I actually really liked brushing Regal as a trim paint, it seemed to cover about as well as Aura but it's a lot easier to work with. I would put Regal above even SW Proclassic as a trim paint.



fromthenorthwest said:


> Another nice water based polyurethane is Old Master's Master's Armor. It's got a hardener that comes with it.. did a whole interior trim package with it, and the stuff is nearly bulletproof.


I will try to remember it. I guess if it's catalyzed it would be as strong as an oil based poly?


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## Respec (Sep 13, 2015)

celicaxx said:


> I've used Aura on trim before and it's... interesting.
> 
> You're definitely right about it covering better than Advance, but I found it drastically different to work with, not really worse once I got the hang of it, but you need to be quick with it and I couldn't backbrush nearly as much as I could with Advance, where I could tip everything off at the end from it staying open so long. Aura you just have to put it on and leave it once it's on, which I find harder to do with trim paints personally. For some stuff like big crown moulding I found a rhythm of sorts that let me apply it with good coverage without runs/sags and without brush marks, but on things like door frames and casings I found it a little difficult. It did seem to dry well, too, but I wasn't at the job to see how it did for a week long cure, etc, to see if it eventually got super hard or not.
> 
> ...


I do understand what you're saying. It is much different, but I have probably used it enough that I have worked out the kinks and like it better. I like the quick drying. Lay it down and don't look back. If something isn't looking just right, leave it alone anyways and then go back and fix it once it is dry. If you try to touch it once it has started to set up, you make it worse. It touches up nice once it is dry. Of course, the object is to try to not have to go back and fix things.


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## Respec (Sep 13, 2015)

fromthenorthwest said:


> I'm curious to find out how that Arroyo works for you. The owner of a local shop near me said he may start carrying it.


I'll let you know my thoughts. I know Kevyn has been curious too. We start the project Monday. I have a couple old doors I am going to do an adhesion test on. The finish is supposed to be able to go over an old solid finish without a primer. The limits on mil thickness are higher than lacquer. This would make things a lot easier. We currently strip before we finish cabinet doors because we currently use precat lacquer. It is funny though. The finish can go directly over another finish, but the primer can't.


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## celicaxx (May 29, 2015)

Respec said:


> I do understand what you're saying. It is much different, but I have probably used it enough that I have worked out the kinks and like it better. I like the quick drying. Lay it down and don't look back. If something isn't looking just right, leave it alone anyways and then go back and fix it once it is dry. If you try to touch it once it has started to set up, you make it worse. It touches up nice once it is dry. Of course, the object is to try to not have to go back and fix things.


I found a little secret to touching up latex paint that's already set a little is using a brush with only water in it, to reactivate the paint a bit and wash away your brush marks sorta.


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

Respec said:


> I'll let you know my thoughts. I know Kevyn has been curious too. We start the project Monday. I have a couple old doors I am going to do an adhesion test on. The finish is supposed to be able to go over an old solid finish without a primer. The limits on mil thickness are higher than lacquer. This would make things a lot easier. We currently strip before we finish cabinet doors because we currently use precat lacquer. It is funny though. The finish can go directly over another finish, but the primer can't.


So the Arroyo has a primer that can't go over another finish... That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It does sound very intriguing though, especially with the higher millage limits. Looking forward to finding out how it goes.

_ W_hat are you using to strip full cabinet sets?


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

fromthenorthwest said:


> So the Arroyo has a primer that can't go over another finish... That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It does sound very intriguing though, especially with the higher millage limits. Looking forward to finding out how it goes.
> 
> _ W_hat are you using to strip full cabinet sets?


 Yes, very interested in results also. I can also get it locally, but the suppliers are kind of meat heads and didn't give me alot of useful info on it, nor did they offer to comp me some to try. 🤷‍♂️ . They pretty much told me it was for new stock and spray only so I gave up. I imagine you could just use a different bonding primer.? Trying to get my hands on the Envirolak T200 as there is apparently a distributor near me who has access to it. I think it's more designed for re-coats.


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## Respec (Sep 13, 2015)

fromthenorthwest said:


> So the Arroyo has a primer that can't go over another finish... That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It does sound very intriguing though, especially with the higher millage limits. Looking forward to finding out how it goes.
> 
> _ W_hat are you using to strip full cabinet sets?


Most of the time we just sand them to raw wood, no actual stripper. The Arroyo is supposed to be self sealing. You only need a primer for bleeding wood. We are in the middle of that job now. The product sprays fine, but seems to have a gritty feel to me, almost like when spraying shellac. We do strain with a 150 micron strainer but can still feel a little grit when sprayed with an HVLP. I tried my airless with a fine filter in the gun and that was better, but not perfect. I picked up some ultrafine filters today for the airless and am going to try them tomorrow. You can't see the grit in the finish, but if you rub your hand over it, you can feel it. It is not terrible, but not perfect, the way I like it. I also sprayed the finish directly over some spare doors I had. We scuffed them up with 150 grit. After a few hours of drying, you could not scratch it off. If stuck like nails.


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## Respec (Sep 13, 2015)

celicaxx said:


> I found a little secret to touching up latex paint that's already set a little is using a brush with only water in it, to reactivate the paint a bit and wash away your brush marks sorta.


I'm going to try that idea.


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

Respec said:


> Most of the time we just sand them to raw wood, no actual stripper. The Arroyo is supposed to be self sealing. You only need a primer for bleeding wood. We are in the middle of that job now. The product sprays fine, but seems to have a gritty feel to me, almost like when spraying shellac. We do strain with a 150 micron strainer but can still feel a little grit when sprayed with an HVLP. I tried my airless with a fine filter in the gun and that was better, but not perfect. I picked up some ultrafine filters today for the airless and am going to try them tomorrow. You can't see the grit in the finish, but if you rub your hand over it, you can feel it. It is not terrible, but not perfect, the way I like it. I also sprayed the finish directly over some spare doors I had. We scuffed them up with 150 grit. After a few hours of drying, you could not scratch it off. If stuck like nails.


Hmm gritty.. that's too bad. Maybe those ultrafine filters will do the trick.


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## jr.sr. painting (Dec 6, 2013)

Used this for a recent condo repaint. Used fresh start 023 on the trim before painting. Sprayed all doors advance sg 310 ff tip. Even painted the kitchen cabinets with the advanced (first time not using actual impervo). I sanded them with festool rts180 grit both sides. Rolled a coat of bin on both sides and 1 coat of finish. Looks like glass and dried very hard. I will not be using the muresco ceiling paint in the future. Too shiny and shows roller lines. Other than that. The regal is our exclusive wall paint and honestly two coats and you don’t even need to think about it after that. That order was just over 700$. What would others pay for what’s in the pic?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Andrea (10 mo ago)

Rolled PPG Seal Grip on all ceilings in a home a home the previous owner smoked in. PPG Hi-Hide ultra flat on the ceilings except for the bathrooms that got PPG Pure Performance flat. 
PPG Pure Performance eggshell on all walls and PPG Advantage 900 on the trim.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

jr.sr. painting said:


> Used this for a recent condo repaint. Used fresh start 023 on the trim before painting. Sprayed all doors advance sg 310 ff tip. Even painted the kitchen cabinets with the advanced (first time not using actual impervo). I sanded them with festool rts180 grit both sides. Rolled a coat of bin on both sides and 1 coat of finish. Looks like glass and dried very hard. I will not be using the muresco ceiling paint in the future. Too shiny and shows roller lines. Other than that. The regal is our exclusive wall paint and honestly two coats and you don’t even need to think about it after that. That order was just over 700$. What would others pay for what’s in the pic?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That sounds a little pricey, even from Canadian standards. Never seen the Muresco. I just use the ultra spec flat. Good value.


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

Respec said:


> Most of the time we just sand them to raw wood, no actual stripper. The Arroyo is supposed to be self sealing. You only need a primer for bleeding wood. We are in the middle of that job now. The product sprays fine, but seems to have a gritty feel to me, almost like when spraying shellac. We do strain with a 150 micron strainer but can still feel a little grit when sprayed with an HVLP. I tried my airless with a fine filter in the gun and that was better, but not perfect. I picked up some ultrafine filters today for the airless and am going to try them tomorrow. You can't see the grit in the finish, but if you rub your hand over it, you can feel it. It is not terrible, but not perfect, the way I like it. I also sprayed the finish directly over some spare doors I had. We scuffed them up with 150 grit. After a few hours of drying, you could not scratch it off. If stuck like nails.


How was the vertical hang with that Arroyo?


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

Skim milk, vinegar, hydrated lime, dry earth pigments, and H2O on ~ 300 yr old pine doors which were stripped and painted earlier today with milk paint, to be finished off with beeswax


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

Redux said:


> Skim milk, vinegar, hydrated lime, dry earth pigments, and H2O on ~ 300 yr old pine doors which were stripped and painted earlier today with milk paint, to be finished off with beeswax
> 
> View attachment 113544
> 
> View attachment 113545


Too cool! Never used any of those ingredients in a coating before... Almost sounds edible.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

fromthenorthwest said:


> Too cool! Never used any of those ingredients in a coating before... Almost sounds edible.


H


fromthenorthwest said:


> Too cool! Never used any of those ingredients in a coating before... Almost sounds edible.


Honestly. Sounds like a salad dressing. @Redux where / how do you come up with these concoctions? 😅 Assuming that's like a homemade milkpaint.


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

finishesbykevyn said:


> H
> 
> Honestly. Sounds like a salad dressing. @Redux where / how do you come up with these concoctions? 😅 Assuming that's like a homemade milkpaint.


My father introduced me to it when restoring a 1790 built home. Pretty much the same stuff as the powdered Milk Paint. I made mention of using it on another project in an earlier thread. Have had a handful of customers spec it out over the years, mostly on restorations. 

Fireplace


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## Respec (Sep 13, 2015)

fromthenorthwest said:


> Hmm gritty.. that's too bad. Maybe those ultrafine filters will do the trick.


The ultra fine filters DID do the trick  Finish came out perfect. We had replaced all her doors, but I had 3 doors that ended up having issues with the overlay, so I had to order new ones. I only had enough product left to run it through my HVLP. I used ultra fine cone strainers with the HVLP and they came out great too. Since I have a couple doors that I had finished that I couldn't use, my next step is to test the durability and stain resistance of the product compared to the Agualente Plus I usually use.


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## Respec (Sep 13, 2015)

fromthenorthwest said:


> How was the vertical hang with that Arroyo?


For me it hung well. I usually don't have problems with spraying the thinner coatings, like Agualente Plus, but the finisher working for me struggles a little more on the verticals with that product. He had less issues with the Arroyo, in other words it hung better.


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

Respec said:


> For me it hung well. I usually don't have problems with spraying the thinner coatings, like Agualente Plus, but the finisher working for me struggles a little more on the verticals with that product. He had less issues with the Arroyo, in other words it hung better.


Thanks for the info. I might pick up a gallon to play around with.


Respec said:


> The ultra fine filters DID do the trick  Finish came out perfect. We had replaced all her doors, but I had 3 doors that ended up having issues with the overlay, so I had to order new ones. I only had enough product left to run it through my HVLP. I used ultra fine cone strainers with the HVLP and they came out great too. Since I have a couple doors that I had finished that I couldn't use, my next step is to test the durability and stain resistance of the product compared to the Agualente Plus I usually use.


Great to hear that. Makes me definitely want to grab some. And you were refinishing directly over a solid finish right?

What tip were you running for the airless part of the job? I usually use a 308/10 but I ordered a 306 to try to dial in my method for some of these thinner coatings.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

fromthenorthwest said:


> Thanks for the info. I might pick up a gallon to play around with.
> 
> Great to hear that. Makes me definitely want to grab some. And you were refinishing directly over a solid finish right?
> 
> What tip were you running for the airless part of the job? I usually use a 308/10 but I ordered a 306 to try to dial in my method for some of these thinner coatings.


 My sources tell me that Arroyo is for new stock only as it has a max film build. I guess if you sanded everything down enough it would probably work, but at what cost? ML Cambell is a product that I can actually get here also, so have researched it but never used it.


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

finishesbykevyn said:


> My sources tell me that Arroyo is for new stock only as it has a max film build. I guess if you sanded everything down enough it would probably work, but at what cost? ML Cambell is a product that I can actually get here also, so have researched it but never used it.


On the pds it looks like the max dry film thickness is 6 mils. That seems like it could be achieved as long as the existing film build wasn't too thick already, no?


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

fromthenorthwest said:


> On the pds it looks like the max dry film thickness is 6 mils. That seems like it could be achieved as long as the existing film build wasn't too thick already, no?


Theoretically yes. 🤷‍♂️It just just kind of scared me off..Let me know if you try it out..


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Theoretically yes. 🤷‍♂️It just just kind of scared me off..Let me know if you try it out..


I don't blame you, I don't like surprises on the job ..especially when it involves cabinets. It sounds like @Respec had success with it. I think I'll do a bit of testing/practice before I try it on a job though.


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## Respec (Sep 13, 2015)

fromthenorthwest said:


> Thanks for the info. I might pick up a gallon to play around with.
> 
> Great to hear that. Makes me definitely want to grab some. And you were refinishing directly over a solid finish right?
> 
> What tip were you running for the airless part of the job? I usually use a 308/10 but I ordered a 306 to try to dial in my method for some of these thinner coatings.


The doors were new and I sprayed them with a 210. The boxes we scuffed with 150. The coating that was there sanded through easily quite a bit, but we were only trying to scuff. The TDS says it can go directly over a previous coating after scuffing. I tested the adhesion on the doors we replaced and I couldn't scratch it off the next day. It stuck like nails.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

I've done so little actual painting lately that I haven't even got to play in this thread. The paint I'm currently using is Rustoleum's Sunrise Red to spruce up my Dad's old Snap On box. I'm not doing any of the bigger boxes or else I'd get a proper match, but for me and my garage, we can live with it. I kept it the way it was for a long time after he passed because it smelled like him, (he was a lifelong mechanic). Now that I've done enough transmissions and differentials in my own garage, everything smells like him, so I just now got around to sprucing up the old box after 10.5 years.


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## celicaxx (May 29, 2015)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> I've done so little actual painting lately that I haven't even got to play in this thread. The paint I'm currently using is Rustoleum's Sunrise Red to spruce up my Dad's old Snap On box. I'm not doing any of the bigger boxes or else I'd get a proper match, but for me and my garage, we can live with it. I kept it the way it was for a long time after he passed because it smelled like him, (he was a lifelong mechanic). Now that I've done enough transmissions and differentials in my own garage, everything smells like him, so I just now got around to sprucing up the old box after 10.5 years.


Gloss sunrise red is a very beautiful color. I've seen a lot of cars done in it and it looks awesome.


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## Knobbe (Mar 14, 2021)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> I've done so little actual painting lately that I haven't even got to play in this thread. The paint I'm currently using is Rustoleum's Sunrise Red to spruce up my Dad's old Snap On box. I'm not doing any of the bigger boxes or else I'd get a proper match, but for me and my garage, we can live with it. I kept it the way it was for a long time after he passed because it smelled like him, (he was a lifelong mechanic). Now that I've done enough transmissions and differentials in my own garage, everything smells like him, so I just now got around to sprucing up the old box after 10.5 years.


Sounds like your dad was a good man since you respect his tools like that.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Within the last two weeks:

Old Masters oil based stain and Last n Last Poly- predictable results. Trusted. opinion is favorable.

SW- Woodscapes Solid Stain- very favorable for Cedar.

Bullseye 123 - reliable. On hand.

SW All Surface Enamel- good alternative for interior/exterior door paint. Levels out nicely. Brushes, rolls and sprays equally well, imo.

SW Latitude (?) - sh*t paint. Stringy. Was only paint available in quarts for color needed. Will never buy again.

PPG Acrylic Floor and Porch- Interior Screen Porch concrete floor (both previously painted and raw concrete)- I have never used this product before, but was chosen due to limited availability (only product in color available in area). Very favorable opinion. Durable finish (scratch resistant after 48 hours, and resisted foot traffic and furniture after 3-7 days), easy to apply, looked good.

Cabot’s oil based Solid Deck Stain - using on weather decks. Will stop handling re-stain of decks when this product is no longer available.


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## celicaxx (May 29, 2015)

Holland said:


> Within the last two weeks:
> 
> Old Masters oil based stain and Last n Last Poly- predictable results. Trusted. opinion is favorable.
> 
> ...


Interesting, I was wanting to post back in this thread with some recent stuff but was getting lazy. I actually used some Woodscapes on an outdoor chair recently, I think I actually liked PPG's Flood Solid Stain a lot better. Woodscapes feels more like paint in how thick it is and how much brush drag you get, whereas the Flood Solid Stain is much thinner and smoother brushing, and durability-wise I got about 3 years out of it on a deck floor here.

Flood Solid Stain - Just as good as I remembered it. Last year on a job I used some BM Arborcoat latex and I swore it was harder to brush out compared to Flood, and I was going over a coat of Arborcoat and I think the wear was similar to Flood. 

SW Woodscapes - It's OK, I think not as good as Flood.

Valspar Bonding Primer - Using leftovers and another gallon for some smaller exterior priming of door frames/etc at my house. Testing stain killing ability at my own house as well, have some new drywall mixed with old drywall in my kitchen, but the old drywall has popcorn removed and some touchup work that needs to be done for that. But the main thing is the old drywall is all yellowed from the acidic paper from the 1970s, so if you put compound on it turns yellow, etc, too. So far it's been good with the Valspar primer not bleeding through. I don't think it's necessarily the best primer ever made, etc, but it's going to be my Bullseye replacement from now on I think, it's about $5 more a gallon but really worth it. I would rate it possibly even higher than Problock latex, too.

Behr WB Alkyd - Old gallon I have leftover I used for some shelving, did an exterior metal door with it. I don't think they make this formula anymore, the new formula is urethane modified and I think meant to compete with SW Emerald Urethane, but this stuff was basically an Advance clone, except even more smelly. Crazy recoat time, too, 16 hours. 

Promar ceiling paint - First time using this in a long while. I used to buy Masterhide, but it's no more, my SW rep tried to sell me on Painter's Edge but I figured go with a product I at least have used sort of in passing once. Price is cheap and cheerful so I figured try it out. I used it only once on a job in 2016 really briefly. So far it seems decent, and definitely whiter than Masterhide. I've only done a couple square feet of testing to see if I was going to get bleed through with my Valspar primer, but everything seems good so far.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

celicaxx said:


> Interesting, I was wanting to post back in this thread with some recent stuff but was getting lazy. I actually used some Woodscapes on an outdoor chair recently, I think I actually liked PPG's Flood Solid Stain a lot better. Woodscapes feels more like paint in how thick it is and how much brush drag you get, whereas the Flood Solid Stain is much thinner and smoother brushing, and durability-wise I got about 3 years out of it on a deck floor here.
> 
> Flood Solid Stain - Just as good as I remembered it. Last year on a job I used some BM Arborcoat latex and I swore it was harder to brush out compared to Flood, and I was going over a coat of Arborcoat and I think the wear was similar to Flood.
> 
> ...


I’ve used a lot of Flood Solid Stain over the years- it is one of the primary Solid Stains available in this area. I don’t mind it, but I prefer Woodscapes. Flood dries with more of a sheen than I like for a stain; Stains shouldn’t have any sheen.

I think Woodscapes penetrates better, and…this is not conclusive, but Flood washes off my hands with no scrubbing after a day of working with it. Just makes me feel less confident about its properties.

Pratt and Lambert discontinued Stain Shield last year, which was the best latex Solid Stain on the market, imo.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Used Advance on some doors and trim. I liked it but the sales clerk touted it’s open working time, which I did not feel was the case at all. Like most “hybrids” I had to lay it out and then resist the urge to go back and brush it out much more. But, the end result did look nice.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

I think I'm a boring painter. Regal Pearl Chantilly Lace over Stix. Customer wants all their oak trim converted to paint but no grain filler which I was fine with as I've never used it before. The finished product looks 'ok' to me, but they absolutely love it and that's how we get paid.


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## Tundra02 (Oct 22, 2014)

Just finished a bathroom with Behr Ultra Scuff  don't bother . Coverage was good but just the way it brushes and rolls is mea


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Tundra02 said:


> Just finished a bathroom with Behr Ultra Scuff  don't bother . Coverage was good but just the way it brushes and rolls is mea


Recently I had a customer insisting I use Behr whatever to paint their entire house stating the hiding qualities were far superior to BM. I refused and said I wasn't driving almost 100Km to get behr paint when Ben Moore was available right here in town.
Colour was Vanilla Milkshake over a beige. Of course with my luck I got hat banding and had to do all the brush work 3 coats. It didn't exactly support my argument that BM was way better than behr.


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## celicaxx (May 29, 2015)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Recently I had a customer insisting I use Behr whatever to paint their entire house stating the hiding qualities were far superior to BM. I refused and said I wasn't driving almost 100Km to get behr paint when Ben Moore was available right here in town.
> Colour was Vanilla Milkshake over a beige. Of course with my luck I got hat banding and had to do all the brush work 3 coats. It didn't exactly support my argument that BM was way better than behr.


I bought some Behr Ultra Scuff for my kitchen a few months back because mainly while I didn't like the working quality of Behr, with a prior job at a friend's house I did as a super beginner in 2013/2014, I put up Behr Ultra and it did very admirably for durability, imo better than the Ben I put up later there. (Though the Ben sheen is a million times better, much lower sheen eggshell...) I'm not expecting Scuff-X quality out of it, but durability does seem to be a strong point. I only brushed out a couple of small spots to test it out and see the handling, I might reduce it by 4oz or so per gallon but it's not that bad. 

With BM paints, after a couple episodes of people buying Behr when I was a super beginner, I used mostly SW and Valspar wall paints, and was rather shocked going to BM, in that I thought it was draggy and thick and reminded me a lot of... Behr. Regal wasn't so bad, but I hated Aura because imo it brushes pretty similarly to Behr and had similar issues with open time, flashing, etc. I read on here a while back that Behr Ultra was aiming to be a bootleg BM Aura. After I figured out some techniques and different tools (stiffer brushes) I got used to using even Aura on jobs with my boss, so retrying Behr now actually seems not so bad after that. Regal while less temperamental imo still will flash going over builder flat paints, in hot/dry rooms, etc, too. 

To some extent paint is paint, in Behr's defense their products tend to do surprisingly well in the MPI ratings, but workability is definitely debatable. I've gone from total hate and disdain to "eh, it might be all right" with Behr.


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## Tundra02 (Oct 22, 2014)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Recently I had a customer insisting I use Behr whatever to paint their entire house stating the hiding qualities were far superior to BM. I refused and said I wasn't driving almost 100Km to get behr paint when Ben Moore was available right here in town.
> Colour was Vanilla Milkshake over a beige. Of course with my luck I got hat banding and had to do all the brush work 3 coats. It didn't exactly support my argument that BM was way better than behr.


the HO bought it when he picked up the new base board for the project . He told me on the way home he remembered my price was for all materials . So I just used and he said keep the money for the paint and base board as a bonus 😊 .


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Having done only interiors for the last dozen years, I like the BMs products I have used and if a customer expresses an desire for me use it, I am all totally on board. But usually, I just find it hard to try and sell a customer on the much higher cost of it. Even if it was worth it (and in some instances they very well may be), there are other interior products that will give great production and protection at somewhere around half the cost. Those products are going to go on just fine and give a more than adequate amount of service until the customer gets tired of the color, or their living situations change, and a new paint job is considered.

Some of the big BM advocates here may be able to refute what I am about to say, but I have felt for some time that BM has simply taken the "Crown Royal approach"* and have made their products so much more expensive in order to create the perception that they ARE just that much better and therefore worth the higher cost. With a few exceptions, I have yet to see much evidence of that being true.

* a _slightly_ higher than average spirit that they put in a velvet bag and bumped up the cost by a huge amount, simply in order to create the image of it being a top shelf brand. In reality, there are much better ones out there at much lower prices - people just have to do the homework and not just succumb to the marketing.


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

RH said:


> Having done only interiors for the last dozen years, I like the BMs products I have used and if a customer expresses an desire for me use it, I am all totally on board. But usually, I just find it hard to try and sell a customer on the much higher cost of it. Even if it was worth it (and in some instances they very well may be), there are other interior products that will give great production and protection at somewhere around half the cost. Those products are going to go on just fine and give a more than adequate amount of service until the customer gets tired of the color, or their living situations change, and a new paint job is considered.
> 
> Some of the big BM advocates here may be able to refute what I am about to say, but I have felt for some time that BM has simply taken the "Crown Royal approach"* and have made their products so much more expensive in order to create the perception that they ARE just that much better and therefore worth the higher cost. With a few exceptions, I have yet to see much evidence of that being true.
> 
> * a _slightly_ higher than average spirit that they put in a velvet bag and bumped up the cost by a huge amount, simply in order to create the image of it being a top shelf brand. In reality, there are much better ones out there at much lower prices - people just have to do the homework and not just succumb to the marketing.


I think where they get you is in their colors, especially the historic palette. Of course the other paint companies say they can match them but I can always tell the difference. Other than that I agree 100% with your view. The BM store in my town went out of business a decade ago, and I have only had to go in search of their paints a handful of times to get a product that someone couldn't live without.


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## celicaxx (May 29, 2015)

RH said:


> Having done only interiors for the last dozen years, I like the BMs products I have used and if a customer expresses an desire for me use it, I am all totally on board. But usually, I just find it hard to try and sell a customer on the much higher cost of it. Even if it was worth it (and in some instances they very well may be), there are other interior products that will give great production and protection at somewhere around half the cost. Those products are going to go on just fine and give a more than adequate amount of service until the customer gets tired of the color, or their living situations change, and a new paint job is considered.
> 
> Some of the big BM advocates here may be able to refute what I am about to say, but I have felt for some time that BM has simply taken the "Crown Royal approach"* and have made their products so much more expensive in order to create the perception that they ARE just that much better and therefore worth the higher cost. With a few exceptions, I have yet to see much evidence of that being true.
> 
> * a _slightly_ higher than average spirit that they put in a velvet bag and bumped up the cost by a huge amount, simply in order to create the image of it being a top shelf brand. In reality, there are much better ones out there at much lower prices - people just have to do the homework and not just succumb to the marketing.


I think in defense of BM, as much as I kinda don't like/have a love/hate relationship with their products, I think they to some extent front the R&D cost for a lot of other paint companies. Waterbased tints were a first from them, Aura was a first in its class paint, then Advance was one of the first mass marketed waterbourne alkyd paints. Now with Scuff-X, every company is coming out with a bootleg version of that, too. It's not to say other companies didn't have equivalent products before BM, but the other companies seem to wait and see on what BM does in the market, then come out with a "me too!" product. 

Color and whiteness is definitely something different/better with BM, even paints like Ben tend to cover amazing in deep base colors, but due to BM trying to be as true white as possible, often you get really ridiculous 4 coater jobs even with an Aura or similar, which is frustrating and quite silly looking. 

Exterior, though it's more of a hunch for sure, I do think their stuff holds up overall better.

I definitely do agree _most _use of BM is due to brand perception and not a _genuine _belief their paint is just that much better than the competition. On my own end too, despite problems people talk about with SW stores, and often the younger kids' knowledge is terrible, my personal SW store was absolutely nothing but nice and 100% professional towards me every step of the way, got me a charge account the first day I walked in, offer me discounted trial runs of paint, etc. Always nice and professional and treat me super well. My local BM store on the other hand always was standoffish, snobby, acted suspicious towards me, and 90% of the time whenever I walked in had a "yeah, what do you want?" dismissive attitude towards me.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Brushed a front doorframe with the stock black bm command satin. Turned out nice in the end, but was having an issue with micro bubbles in the paint during application. Never had that while brushing a product before. Had to thin it a bit with water, and brush it out nice and thin. Must be a urethane thing? 🤷‍♀️


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## jr.sr. painting (Dec 6, 2013)

We’re into gallon 16 of 30 pro classic semi gloss oil. All brush and roll. Using ultra spec flat for the rest of the project. Had to drive 10.5 hours round trip out of state back in April to get the paint. By far the best product sw has to offer. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Susan (Nov 29, 2011)

jr.sr. painting said:


> We’re into gallon 16 of 30 pro classic semi gloss oil. All brush and roll. Using ultra spec flat for the rest of the project. Had to drive 10.5 hours round trip out of state back in April to get the paint. By far the best product sw has to offer.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Cheers


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## celicaxx (May 29, 2015)

Two very uncool and unnoteworthy paints used, but nonetheless used.

SW "Property Advantage" white maintenance paint from Lowes. Labeled interior/exterior. Used on a wooden fence that may get torn down due to lots of bowing/etc. I bought 3 gallons of Woodscapes for it initially, but just doing one side with two coats took about 2.5 gallons, so I'd be 5 gallons in for both sides. I'll save the Woodscapes gallons for my front deck rails/etc, which will be mostly new. I mean, it's certainly not the best paint, but I can't complain at $40 a 5er, being careful in application it covered well enough in two coats over bare rough PT wood that was pressure washed and brightened, and it cuts the coating cost of the fence from $200+ to $40. As far as longterm, it's labeled for exterior, too, and seems to not be chalky/etc, but again, may get torn down in a few years and just want my HOA happier.

Valspar Stainblocking Bonding Primer.

I absolutely adore this primer now. I would really rate it somewhere near Fresh Start 046 in how good it is. I used it as a drywall primer this time, over bare new drywall and skimcoat, but also over 1970s very yellowed (from acidity in the paper?) drywall in the adjoining room after popcorn removal where new joint compound was bleeding yellow. There were a few actual water stains as well, and those didn't bleed through either. While obviously it doesn't look good enough to be a topcoat, I'm rather surprised how good it is, and 100% support this primer as a Zinsser Bullseye replacement. Consistency is weird on it, though. It's very very thick like yogurt/pudding, but it actually brushes and rolls out well with decent open time, but the thickness is similar to BM Aura. I wasn't really keeping track of square feet per gallon, maybe thickness gives you less, but actually if I think about it I used about 3/4 of a gallon over around 300 square feet, and bare drywall is a pretty porous surface.


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

jr.sr. painting said:


> We’re into gallon 16 of 30 pro classic semi gloss oil. All brush and roll. Using ultra spec flat for the rest of the project. Had to drive 10.5 hours round trip out of state back in April to get the paint. By far the best product sw has to offer.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That would put me over the edge right there. You do realize its the 21st century right?


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## Smilingpolitely (Dec 14, 2020)

jr.sr. painting said:


> We’re into gallon 16 of 30 pro classic semi gloss oil. All brush and roll. Using ultra spec flat for the rest of the project. Had to drive 10.5 hours round trip out of state back in April to get the paint. By far the best product sw has to offer.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It's weird how regions work. I can't get anything oil at SW by me. If I want to use oil, I go with BM Impervo. Is the Pro-Classic oil that much better?

I recently had a customer give me close to a full gallon of SW Emerald Enamel because they didn't have a use for it. That is really nice to work with. I could tip off doors like oil, but it had a faster dry time. Plus, single coat coverage (white over white


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## celicaxx (May 29, 2015)

Smilingpolitely said:


> It's weird how regions work. I can't get anything oil at SW by me. If I want to use oil, I go with BM Impervo. Is the Pro-Classic oil that much better?
> 
> I recently had a customer give me close to a full gallon of SW Emerald Enamel because they didn't have a use for it. That is really nice to work with. I could tip off doors like oil, but it had a faster dry time. Plus, single coat coverage (white over white


I think around here Proclassic oil is considered worse, but having used both, albeit when I was more of a beginner painter like 5+ years ago, I think they both really handled/etc about the same. I would go even further and say you could probably get the exact same results as each one with Rustoleum oil, which is much cheaper and more easily available, and still available in satin. I found Rusto and the SW Proclassic to be similar in sheen, too. Depends on how you reduce/what you add to each one, too, but I found all 3 really about the same in handling, etc. 

One thing I would do with Rusto that always made customers ecstatic was brushing out rusty baseboard heaters with it, easy cheap add on to a job that doesn't take a lot of time and effort and makes customers thrilled, as long as the smell didn't bother them much. 

Still, I'd rather use the hybrids and urethane alkyds and that sort of thing over real oil, just because as I got older I got way more sensitive to the chemical effects of paint, particularly oil based stuff.


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## jr.sr. painting (Dec 6, 2013)

Gwarel said:


> That would put me over the edge right there. You do realize its the 21st century right?


I know it’s not something all too common but we do get into quite a bit of it. The entire house has oil on it so it has to be oil again. Too big of a job and too risky to not use the oil. The smell does linger for a couple weeks








Just many of the doors we did. All brush and roll.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## azcardsfan22 (Jan 21, 2017)

I have been using ScuffX for most of my interior walls paint is amazing I use the Matte for walls and I use the Satin on the woodwork, if I dont use Scuffy I use regal select on walls, but I am always using the Satin scuffy on trim....


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## jennifertemple (Oct 30, 2011)

SICO EVOLUTION / PAINT & PRIMER / Discovered during supply chain issues and could not get a full order of anything else.

Really does an excellent job of priming / Not promotional BS
Scrub Resistant
Easy to Clean Finish
Rolled out beautifully / brushed nicely as well
High Hide
Great Coverage / Very close to 600 sq.ft.!
Great price at RONA, on special @ $50 per.
I got into a lot of trouble with that as I'd calculated 400sq.ft. per, A LOT of excess paint on a whole 4 bedroom interior job! Sadly, I did not read the TDS until I realized I was not running through the paint as I'd expected.


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## jennifertemple (Oct 30, 2011)

RH said:


> Some of the big BM advocates here may be able to refute what I am about to say, but I have felt for some time that BM has simply taken the "Crown Royal approach"* and have made their products so much more expensive in order to create the perception that they ARE just that much better and therefore worth the higher cost. With a few exceptions, I have yet to see much evidence of that being true.
> * a _slightly_ higher than average spirit that they put in a velvet bag and bumped up the cost by a huge amount, simply in order to create the image of it being a top shelf brand. In reality, there are much better ones out there at much lower prices - people just have to do the homework and not just succumb to the marketing.


However BM has the best customer service I have ever encountered!!!


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

jennifertemple said:


> However BM has the best customer service I have ever encountered!!!


Depends on the store. I have heard some here complain about their BM stores along with SW or any other company store for that matter. Heck, I imagine that in some parallel universe even an HD somewhere has a paint staff that know their d***s from a stir stick - but not ours.

Our SW is a great store staffed with knowledgable people - for the most part. It's a traning store for managers so I am careful about directing my questions to those I know have a strong knowledge base.
We also have a great BM store as well as an equally outstanding Miller Paints store - which is a regional chain. So all in all, the painters in our area can consider themselves pretty fortunate.


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## celicaxx (May 29, 2015)

RH said:


> Depends on the store. I have heard some here complain about their BM stores along with SW or any other company store for that matter. Heck, I imagine that in some parallel universe even an HD somewhere has a paint staff that know their d***s from a stir stick - but not ours.
> 
> Our SW is a great store staffed with knowledgable people - for the most part. It's a traning store for managers so I am careful about directing my questions to those I know have a strong knowledge base.
> We also have a great BM store as well as an equally outstanding Miller Paints store - which is a regional chain. So all in all, the painters in our area can consider themselves pretty fortunate.


I definitely found BM as a company nicer on the phone compared to SW, speaking to reps from both. From individual stores, though, my personal SW store in town is much nicer than the BM store in town by far. 



jennifertemple said:


> SICO EVOLUTION / PAINT & PRIMER ? Discovered during supply chain issues and could not get a full order of anything else.
> 
> Really does an excellent job of priming / Not promotional BS
> Scrub Resistant
> ...


I'm feeling this way about the Valspar Bonding Primer from Lowes, it's definitely among the best primers I've used so far. I blocked a water stain and yellowed drywall paper in one coat with it, and it spreads extremely well and far. Very good high hide coverage, too. Very thick, but also easy to work with, reasonable open time, levels well, etc. Some surprises for sure in places you don't expect. It's definitely my 1-2-3 replacement now.

So for myself personally, I went through some of the Promar ceiling paint and finished up my own ceiling project last night. I'm pretty impressed/happy at it, mainly in that the low spatter claims of it were definitely true, and it is a much brighter white than the old Masterhide I used to use. I do think it's slightly less flat than Masterhide so if things had super duper critical lighting/etc, maybe I'd reconsider using it, but overall for my $21 or so price, I'm pretty happy with it and happy I got a nice bright white ceiling paint that still was nice and easy to work with, had a long open time, etc.


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## jennifertemple (Oct 30, 2011)

@RH I once had them pay every scrap of material as well as labour on a really big faux finish job that their product destroyed. They paid for everything on that redo, down to the last inch of painters tape!


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## jennifertemple (Oct 30, 2011)

@celicaxx SICO EVOLUTION can be painted directly on fresh wood, MDF, mud and drywall!


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

jennifertemple said:


> @celicaxx SICO EVOLUTION can be painted directly on fresh mud and drywall!


Thats good to know. All the Rona's closed down in NL a few years ago, but I think our local hardware store Kent carries it. I do recall using Sico on a house a few years back that the client puchased. I remember it having really good coverage!


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Brushed a front doorframe with the stock black bm command satin. Turned out nice in the end, but was having an issue with micro bubbles in the paint during application. Never had that while brushing a product before. Had to thin it a bit with water, and brush it out nice and thin. Must be a urethane thing? 🤷‍♀️


I had that happen with SW MSA, I asked the store about it and they suggested adding just a cap full of thinner to it. Surprisingly the thinner actually worked and the micro bubbling stopped.


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## jennifertemple (Oct 30, 2011)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Thats good to know. All the Rona's closed down in NL a few years ago, but I think our local hardware store Kent carries it. I do recall using Sico on a house a few years back that the client puchased. I remember it having really good coverage!


LOWES also carries the SICO line. Crazy good for a big box buy, no? Until this SICO product I would avoid Big Box buys for anything other than masking tape or mud. PPG has clearly upped the SICO game since they purchased it. Their new self priming paint technology was a game changer with the timeless line; clearly, they are applying that technology to the SICO products. Evolution is an amazing product. ( I used to hate SICO!) Being able to start and end with the finish paint means 2 full coats and your done. That's one coat less than if I'd had to use primer and one can just roll right over repairs and patches.

I've attached the TDS


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## celicaxx (May 29, 2015)

jennifertemple said:


> LOWES also carries the SICO line. Crazy good for a big box buy, no? Until this SICO product I would avoid Big Box buys for anything other than masking tape or mud. PPG has clearly upped the SICO game since they purchased it. Their new self priming paint technology was a game changer with the timeless line; clearly, they are applying that technology to the SICO products. Evolution is an amazing product. ( I used to hate SICO!) Being able to start and end with the finish paint means 2 full coats and your done. That's one coat less than if I'd had to use primer and one can just roll right over repairs and patches.


As far as I know there's no SICO paints in USA, Canadian only line. We can get their Timeless line at HDs here, though, but Manor Hall is still their top paint sold only in PPG stores. I kinda personally think on the Sherwin end their Valspar box store stuff is a great value relative to what's available in SW stores. But I've not used a lot of box store PPG stuff, but I have a bad taste in my mouth after an experience using Olympic One which was PPG at Lowes, in one room of my house with a pastel purple in flat it basically looked exactly as good as BM Regal Matte and covered beautifully and was nice and durable, then in my own room with a deep base green, it came out eggshell/satin and had really poor adhesion. So it makes me suspect about their quality control for the box stores to hit a price point. 

Personally while I have just painted right over patches quite a lot without spot priming, or spot primed with just the paint first, etc, for me in some scenarios it's just easier to prime. I tend to be doing more skimcoat work, too, so in a scenario of a skimcoat imo you should always prime first. I've found personally if you're using premixed AP mud usually you can get away with painting right over things with almost any decent paint if you want, but hot mud seemingly always flashes no matter what paint is over it, so if something is all hot mud it gets a decent coat of primer, but also with hot mud I tend to do a final pass with AP as a sanding layer, to make it easier to sand but also less likely to flash.


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## jennifertemple (Oct 30, 2011)

Sorry, to my fellow painters, stateside! I read here the SICO line is not available in the USA. @celicaxx , I have yet to try it on most of the places listed in the TDS but will be doing some major work on my own house in the not to distant future and I'll put the evolution through its paces then, from bare wood & drywall to major plaster repairs. It has always been my practice to try new methods & materials on my own property before trying them on as paid contract. An aside, I did an exterior job with Timeless exterior on a gazebo about 5 years ago, for a regular client. I used it without prior primer and I must say, it's holding up, really well, so far.  Timeless is no longer sold in Canada.


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## celicaxx (May 29, 2015)

I guess to review two quite controversial paints now. Very controversial.

I finally got to using Behr's Urethane Alkyd trim paint on some stuff more substantial than some railings, and Behr Ultra Scuff Defense wall paint in eggshell in my own house.

First, Behr Urethane Alkyd I don't think I have anything negative to say about it at all, I think it handles quite like SW Emerald Urethane, and has been one of the closest things I've found to Muralo Ultra thus far. Coverage is awesome, handles great, levels great, great open time, overall a fantastic trim paint and a bargain. Very good one coat coverage in an off white (something like White Dove...) over white primer as well. I think the only negative is the cure time really is about one whole week, it certainly can't be fingernailed off in large sections or anything after a day, but it does take a week to get hard.

Second paint is much more controversial, Behr Ultra Scuff Defense. My opinion is quite mixed, but overall positive. One one hand, brushing it out is absolutely miserable and it has the most brush drag of any paint I've ever used. Can't go back to where you last brushed after maybe 20 seconds. I think in a lot of ways it handles like Aura, so after having a lot of time using Aura at work I got used to a brushing system, and letting cuts dry fully and all that. I think unlike Aura it's really not all that thick, but it's much more draggy, and Aura is a pretty draggy paint. At work when I first encountered Aura years ago, I was cursing it and saying it felt like Behr. So Behr Ultra I think for sure is a bootleg Aura. I think in a professional setting Behr Ultra would for sure give me a wicked sore wrist if I had to spend 8 hours brushing it out, and I even added a splash of water and used a quite stiff brush to no avail. But, to a DIYer without a steady wrist, maybe an awful brush, and just spending a couple hours at a time, it's likely fine.

For the positives though, it does have real true one coat coverage at least if it's not super drastic of a color change. In a light blue over a light green (somewhat similar colors) it really did achieve it, without needing to put on a really thick mil layer either, in fact for one wall I ran the roller quite dryer than I normally do and still had great one coat coverage. Rolling was also fine, albeit these were small walls of about 8 foot wide sections, but I used a 1/2" nap microfiber and backrolled as normal and everything was fine, didn't pull into dry paint, etc, but it was going eggshell over eggshell. The other thing too with it is I think the "Self leveling" qualities are pretty good with it, you can leave it alone and spots that look kinda questionable when wet do just level out well. Also it does "self prime" over drywall patches that are spot primed with the paint first, and not flash even with one coat over everything else. I think the only negative I don't like is the eggshell is a shiny eggshell, but I expected that.

Overall I'm happy with it in my scenario, as a professional you can't really bid "one coat" jobs since you're essentially gambling no matter how good the paint is, the brush drag is horrendous, but... it works. I wanted to try it mainly because I'd gotten so used to working with Aura and Regal in sometimes less than ideal conditions, and they reminded me a little of Behr I used as a beginner painter for friends/etc. So I decided to apply my techniques I learned with those BM paints back to Behr a lot of years later, and it worked out very well. Everything has different techniques and learning curves. Overall though, I would recommend it.


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## Knobbe (Mar 14, 2021)

Just finished off a couple of gals of Scuff-x. I must say this stuff is the bomb. Levels nice with a short nap mohair, dries quick, feels like butter.


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## HuskyPaintStore (10 mo ago)

celicaxx said:


> For the positives though, it does have real true one coat coverage at least if it's not super drastic of a color change.


I get people in all the time asking for one coat paint. I tell them BM doesn't make any one coat paint and most companies that say they do are full of ****. Real True One Coat coverage would mean if you are painting a bright red over a white wall it could do it in one coat, or vice versa cover a bright red with white in one coat. I don't know of a paint that can do that. It's not really true one coat coverage if it only works on similar colors, it's just marketing BS.


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## Knobbe (Mar 14, 2021)

HuskyPaintStore said:


> I get people in all the time asking for one coat paint. I tell them BM doesn't make any one coat paint and most companies that say they do are full of ****. Real True One Coat coverage would mean if you are painting a bright red over a white wall it could do it in one coat, or vice versa cover a bright red with white in one coat. I don't know of a paint that can do that. It's not really true one coat coverage if it only works on similar colors, it's just marketing BS.


Believe it or not, years before "Paint + Primer in One" My son's bedroom had deep red wall. He was into cars and had posters of red Ferraris. Kid grew up, time for a color change, wife picked a gray from Behr that claimed 1 coat coverage. I told her to buy enough for 2 coats. She said no, it says covers in one coat. I said impossible. I rolled those walls with the full knowledge I's roll another coat in a couple of hours. You know what... It covered. I couldn't believe it. I was shocked and she said "I told you so".


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## celicaxx (May 29, 2015)

HuskyPaintStore said:


> I get people in all the time asking for one coat paint. I tell them BM doesn't make any one coat paint and most companies that say they do are full of ****. Real True One Coat coverage would mean if you are painting a bright red over a white wall it could do it in one coat, or vice versa cover a bright red with white in one coat. I don't know of a paint that can do that. It's not really true one coat coverage if it only works on similar colors, it's just marketing BS.


Yeah, I think it's a touchy issue. I still would never _professionally_ bid any job as one coat unless it was over the same color just because regardless of the paint you use there's too many unknowns. At best if you do less coats you just give the HO a surprise discount. But from a homeowner/DIY perspective I really did appreciate the big bad Behr's "one coat" coverage. I had some bad Behr experiences though when I started in 2015 and took over a job someone left that the HO wanted me to "fix" so I think maybe that experience left a bad taste in my mouth about it. I still think I'd be hesitant if an HO wanted me to use it on trim unless it was the urethane alkyd or another one of their trim enamels, but on walls I'd 100% use it now.

One thing companies are doing now which is interesting for "one coat" guarantees is having a one coat color palette presumably where they can tweak stuff a bit to make it cover. I think Behr does it with Marquee but not Ultra now. PPG also does the same thing with a one coat color palette with Timeless. In this case though I actually tinted mine to BM "Smoke" going over Kittery Point Green (sorry for using BM colors in other brands, haha) and not a color like that.

I have to say from personal experience BM has given me the absolute most coverage issues over the years. I understand some of the arguments about graying out bases and that sort of thing, but it can be a bit absurd to be doing 4 coats for whites and yellows, especially with the price differences being what they are. I would say anecdotally I've actually had _almost_ one coat coverage in _deep base_ BM colors even in lines like Ben, etc, it's something where I think the Gennex shines, but the whites and yellows have always been universally mediocre coverage. 



Knobbe said:


> Believe it or not, years before "Paint + Primer in One" My son's bedroom had deep red wall. He was into cars and had posters of red Ferraris. Kid grew up, time for a color change, wife picked a gray from Behr that claimed 1 coat coverage. I told her to buy enough for 2 coats. She said no, it says covers in one coat. I said impossible. I rolled those walls with the full knowledge I's roll another coat in a couple of hours. You know what... It covered. I couldn't believe it. I was shocked and she said "I told you so".


Yeah, maybe Jack Pauhl was right after all.  

I dunno if I'd use it for everything but it went from the "horrible" camp to the "well, it's all right" camp for me personally. I'd much rather be brushing out something like Cashmere or Ben from a handling perspective, though. But it covers... somehow.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Just rolled 3 metal garage doors and a front door with Command Satin. Stuff was really nice! An hour later was candy shell hard. Didn't even have to pull the weather stripping on front door as it blocked so quickly. Front door was a deep red and almost covered in 1 coat. Pretty darn impressive.


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## FCP (Sep 20, 2018)

Just did a full trim, cabinet, walls, ceiling job.
Cover stain primer on trim, cabinets
Scuff X satin top coat trim and cabinets
400 Flat on ceilings
Cashmere Low Luster on all walls.

This was my first time using Scuff X on cabinets and it was awesome. For sure going to be my go to as long as I can get it, had a few issues at my local stores getting enough in stock.

Cashmere has been my preferred wall paint for the last year or so, goes on like butter.


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## TKbrush (Dec 30, 2014)

Just started using Ben line, as an alternative to Regal Select. It is good paint, even using the semi gloss white on trim and doors. Also went back to Super Hide for ceilings. The current BM price increases on everything out of the paint factory, resulted in having to have $200 everyday, for regal select and bm ultra flat ceiling. It got ridiculous, huge difference in material cost totals.


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## Knobbe (Mar 14, 2021)

FCP said:


> Just did a full trim, cabinet, walls, ceiling job.
> Cover stain primer on trim, cabinets
> Scuff X satin top coat trim and cabinets
> 400 Flat on ceilings
> ...


I love Scuff-x! Levels nice, feels silky smooth. Only thing I noticed dark scuff areas required 2 coats even if same color


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## TKbrush (Dec 30, 2014)

Aura
Customer chose a color, Cake Batter and paint store insisted, only Aura. The customers were not happy paying $258 for 3 gallons of Aura. So i padded the bill on the labor, which cost me.
The color looks like linen white to me, so the "aura" thing was BAFFLING.!?!


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## comtnpaint (5 mo ago)

TKbrush said:


> Aura
> Customer chose a color, Cake Batter and paint store insisted, only Aura. The customers were not happy paying $258 for 3 gallons of Aura. So i padded the bill on the labor, which cost me.
> The color looks like linen white to me, so the "aura" thing was BAFFLING.!?!


Looks like that's one of the Aura Color Stories colors (numbers beginning with 'CSP-XXX'). These are special 'full spectrum' colors that are exclusive to Aura.

That said, they just announced they are going to be making the Color Stories colors available in other products, starting with the enhanced formula Regal interior in early 2023. The newer Ben formula and 'other premium offerings' will get them at a later date.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

FCP said:


> Just did a full trim, cabinet, walls, ceiling job.
> Cover stain primer on trim, cabinets
> Scuff X satin top coat trim and cabinets
> 400 Flat on ceilings
> ...


I love the sheen on Cashmere low lustre. Different than other paints I have used. It has almost no sheen when viewed head-on, but has low sheen when viewed at an angle. I realize this is subject to opinion, but I think it looks elegant and upscale in many homes. I find that the slightly higher VOC content (it is not a low VOC paint) makes it flow out when rolling, and dries without visible lap marks, apparent flashing, or hat-banding most/all of the time.


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## TKbrush (Dec 30, 2014)

comtnpaint said:


> Looks like that's one of the Aura Color Stories colors (numbers beginning with 'CSP-XXX'). These are special 'full spectrum' colors that are exclusive to Aura.
> 
> That said, they just announced they are going to be making the Color Stories colors available in other products, starting with the enhanced formula Regal interior in early 2023. The newer Ben formula and 'other premium offerings' will get them at a later date.


Thank You, good to know


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## Knobbe (Mar 14, 2021)

BM Aura, Hale Navy, Matte, 3/8" Microfiber, 2 coats on a feature wall. Looks amazing. Deep color, nice feel, thick paint but levels and rolls out nice although I was being a bit more particular when rolling. As it dries it almost looks like its sagging but 2 hours later, flat as a pancake. Nice stuff.


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