# Satin Impervo Acrylic vs. Advance for Kitchen Cabinets



## rwransom (Aug 7, 2013)

Do you prefer Satin Impervo Acrylic or Advance for kitchen cabinets? I love that I can use an oil based enamel underbody (217) and then go over it with an acrylic. Then again I love the hardness of an alkyd finish coat.

What do you think?


----------



## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

either one


----------



## PremierPaintingMa (Nov 30, 2014)

I will go with Advance.


----------



## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

rwransom said:


> Do you prefer Satin Impervo Acrylic or Advance for kitchen cabinets? I love that I can use an oil based enamel underbody (217) and then go over it with an acrylic. Then again I love the hardness of an alkyd finish coat.
> 
> What do you think?


In theory, the Advance should (eventually) dry to the same (or nearly the same) hardness as the Impervo. It's actually _really_ an oil, it's just water dispersed. There's very little downside to the Advance- it may take a tad longer to get to the same hardness as the Impervo, but it should be close. It yellows less. It cleans with soap and water. I see very little reason to use anything else any more for cabinet/trim jobs.


----------



## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

I'd be interested in hearing experiences with the Advance recoat times. I have heard guys do 3 coats in a day no problem others have done 2 and had issues. I have always stuck with the recommended times.


----------



## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

PRC said:


> I'd be interested in hearing experiences with the Advance recoat times. I have heard guys do 3 coats in a day no problem others have done 2 and had issues. I have always stuck with the recommended times.



Seems to depend on application method and surface. Brushing I have done 2 coats in a day easy. My guys say rolling doesn't work as well as it seems to not flow out as well on the 2nd coAt in the sAme day. 
I have sprayed two coats with HVLP in a day as it dries fast and is a thinner coat. 
With airless we have double coated in a day, but I usually prefer to do single coats when doing cabinets to allow for better drying in between coats. Anything that will receive more abuse like a cabinet I give longer to recoat.

I haven't used the latex satin impervo in years. Not a fan


----------



## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Advance


----------



## trainbeat (Dec 19, 2013)

Advance has a nicer finish IMO. The best looking satin out there.


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

When you get a system this good down, you pretty much can print money. This is a cabinet finish they will tell their friends and family about. 

kem aqua low gloss.:thumbsup:


----------



## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

Nice work SL!


----------



## Lakesidex (Oct 9, 2011)

Damn... sweet finish


----------



## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

I really like the Advance for cabinets. Here's a job I did last spring with Advance semi






























It was a repaint. The vanities got one coat and the kitchen got two. As you can see in the vanity pics I didn't have my fan dialed in perfectly. Still, the Advance flowed out awesome. Some of the most forgiving paint to spray IMO.


----------



## 804 Paint (Jan 31, 2014)

Jmays - I would like to know how that top is holding up after a year! Some around these parts say Advance isn't hard/durable enough to be used on high-contact areas such as tops and furniture.


----------



## matt19422 (Oct 2, 2009)

straight_lines said:


> When you get a system this good down, you pretty much can print money. This is a cabinet finish they will tell their friends and family about.
> 
> kem aqua low gloss.:thumbsup:


Thats a nice finish, what was the primer and finish... I know you said kem aqua low gloss but I don't see the low gloss anywhere. 

-Matt


----------



## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

804 Paint said:


> Jmays - I would like to know how that top is holding up after a year! Some around these parts say Advance isn't hard/durable enough to be used on high-contact areas such as tops and furniture.



I did a bookcase built in last year in advance satin. Was back this year doing other work. There were wear marks on the main flat surfaces from various things dragging across it. I'll be back this Tuesday to look at a additional work at a cabinet job we did a few years ago in cabinet coat , am curious to see how it's held up.


----------



## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

Damon T said:


> I did a bookcase built in last year in advance satin. Was back this year doing other work. There were wear marks on the main flat surfaces from various things dragging across it. I'll be back this Tuesday to look at a additional work at a cabinet job we did a few years ago in cabinet coat , am curious to see how it's held up.



I know Advance Gloss would hold up better and dry harder, but man it shows every sin, no matter how minute. Gotta be on yer game to put out a perfect finish.


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

matt19422 said:


> Thats a nice finish, what was the primer and finish... I know you said kem aqua low gloss but I don't see the low gloss anywhere.
> 
> -Matt


SW white shellac primer. Its actually about the same as advance satin when they are both cured out. I like all three sheen levels with KA.

Here is one we did a week before those pics, same product just in grey. These bases were done in advance satin only the doors and panels are KA. This was a redoor so we used kA surfacer for this one. Lighting wasn't good and we are going back to paint walls so the pics aren't as good.


----------



## trainbeat (Dec 19, 2013)

straight_lines said:


> When you get a system this good down, you pretty much can print money. This is a cabinet finish they will tell their friends and family about.
> 
> kem aqua low gloss.:thumbsup:


Mother of God


----------



## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Very nice SL


----------



## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

PRC said:


> I'd be interested in hearing experiences with the Advance recoat times. I have heard guys do 3 coats in a day no problem others have done 2 and had issues. I have always stuck with the recommended times.


I always recommend the full time on the can just because, like you said, there seems to be so many variants in how fast it dries depending on application. Advance isn't the best if you're in a hurry, but if you've got time on your hands... damn it's good.


----------



## LaserLines (Jan 31, 2013)

Whoa, those ^ look amazing. I've done plenty with Pratt and Lambert Precat Epoxy. And they look good and hold up well. Not as good as the above poster, though. Wow.


----------



## 804 Paint (Jan 31, 2014)

Woodford said:


> In theory, the Advance should (eventually) dry to the same (or nearly the same) hardness as the Impervo. It's actually _really_ an oil, it's just water dispersed. There's very little downside to the Advance- it may take a tad longer to get to the same hardness as the Impervo, but it should be close. It yellows less. It cleans with soap and water. I see very little reason to use anything else any more for cabinet/trim jobs.


The OP was asking about the waterborne version of Impervo, not the alkyd, so there would be absolutely no yellowing there. I have never sprayed the WB Impervo (or much of anything really), but I have some trim in my own home that is several years old now and it is very hard and still looks great (used on the back door which my dog used to scratch madly at when she had to go out-- only shows light scratch marks if you get close in to look for them). I found it more difficult to work with (brushing) than Advance and it doesn't seem to level quite as well. However, it seems Advance may have several strikes against it (which Jmays mentioned in a recent sheen standardization thread) that I'm surprised not to see discussed a bit more here.

I've just started using Advance (been a couple months I guess) and, from a USER perspective I just can't get over how good it is. Decent open time, and the HOs are super impressed with how awesome the trim looks…because it just looks amazing. 

HOWEVER, a points that Jmays brought up are that it apparently is easily marred (something I have yet to experience), the minimal yellowing (not too big a deal since a lot of trim is tinted), and, in the end, the flattening of the sheen in just a few years. I have had the same flattening issue with the ProClassic waterborne alkyd, but when I found out that Advance has the same issue, I got a little depressed (because I thought I found "the one").

I'm not really interested in using a product that looks great in the short term (which makes me look great) but that, in the end, make the customer the loser. I feel that a solid trim and door package should hold up at least 5 years in busy homes and WAY longer in more settled homes. Does anyone else feel the same??



PRC said:


> I'd be interested in hearing experiences with the Advance recoat times. I have heard guys do 3 coats in a day no problem others have done 2 and had issues. I have always stuck with the recommended times.


I asked my rep about this. He said after a few hours, put the second coat on an inconspicuous area and wait 30 min. If you have no bubbles (from off gassing of previous coat) then you are good to go. Obviously if it is draggy, etc when you first apply the second then you don't need to wait…you already have your answer. Anyway I followed this advice on a recent job and was able to do the second coat the same day with no ill effects.

*Not related to paint choice*, but you guys who spray cabinets…what is your method for masking off the insides?


----------



## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Do you have a link to the thread about the sheen flattening? I've got some early adopters of Advance and none of them have mentioned that to me. Further, Advance is a different system from ProClassic; I'm really surprised to hear that they share this issue.


----------



## 804 Paint (Jan 31, 2014)

Woodford said:


> Do you have a link to the thread about the sheen flattening? I've got some early adopters of Advance and none of them have mentioned that to me. Further, Advance is a different system from ProClassic; I'm really surprised to hear that they share this issue.


Here ya go…post 12: http://www.painttalk.com/f2/universal-coding-sheens-38994/#post720802



Jmayspaint said:


> ...I've got satin Advance on my back door that's a few years old and it's almost matte looking.


----------



## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Thanks for the link, much appreciated.

Surprising stuff for me; hadn't heard about any of this. And it's not like I never hear bad feedback on my products, just these haven't been it. Would be curious to hear more opinions on this, as even on this site the vast majority of what I've heard about Advance has been praise; the only downside was some sag issues in the first formula, and the dry time.


----------



## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

A while back Tommy (straightlines) posted about being able to easily mar cured Advance with a fingernail. I remembered an early job I had done with it where the baseboards (cured finish) had got really dinged up from moving furniture, but I had attributed that to second coating too early (two coats in one day). 

I still believe that second coating too early causes it to cure way slower and maybe permanently weakens the film. Even on stuff that I didn't rush the second coat though, I can still mar it easily. Maybe that's not too big of a deal, that's certainly the case with many other trim paints. I just hoped for better film hardness with Advance as its marketed as being very durable. Kinda disappointing. After I read that post I wanted to prove it wrong, but alas it seems to be true. At least with the stuff I've done and had the opportunity to check out after its cured. 

I'm sure I'll continue to use it. It's hard to beat as far as initial ascetics go and is easy to apply. Haven't had any complaints so far and I've been using it for almost 5 years. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Everyone knows how easy it is to get a great finish with advance. Its hard to argue there is any paint on the market that produces that beautiful a finish with as little labor as it does. 

Still the finish can be permanently damaged by simply dragging your fingernail across it. In that respect it is an utter failure.


----------



## ShermanMoore (Mar 23, 2014)

straight_lines said:


> Everyone knows how easy it is to get a great finish with advance. Its hard to argue there is any paint on the market that produces that beautiful a finish with as little labor as it does.
> 
> Still the finish can be permanently damaged by simply dragging your fingernail across it. In that respect it is an utter failure.



This has been my experience as well. I mean, not even digging the nail in, just lightly dragging it. Even a couple years later, the door I used it on still mars with just the lightest scratch from a fingernail. I'll grant that I probably recoated it the same day, though I can't say for sure at this point, but if putting a second coat on the same day is out of the question for a WB product, I'll just pass thank you.


----------



## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

I tired to scratch some advanced satin trim today at a job site. It wouldn't scratch. I love it.


----------



## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Yeah but you probably bite all your fingernails off!
Actually I just went and scratched on all the doors in my hallway. Advance satin. White dove. Probably 6 months old. Held up very well. I could see a slight burnishing when I really scratched and looked from an angle. But no worse than any other paint I've tested. Not as good as a factory finish but pretty darn good. Better than some cabinet coat that had only been on for a few weeks, but that's not a fair fight due to cure time.


----------



## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> I tired to scratch some advanced satin trim today at a job site. It wouldn't scratch. I love it.



That's good to hear. I keep hoping its situationally dependent or due to some application quirk or certain batches, or something. 

Going back for phase two of an Advance job today. Some of it will have cured for 18 days. Not sure that's long enough, but I'll check it out. Hopefully it does better than the other stuff I've tested. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Thanks for the feedback guys- let us know how that turns out if you think of it, Jmays? 

And Sherman, I'd be hesitant to treat Advance as a waterborne product- treating it like one is why a lot of people were having problems originally. Gotta treat it like it is- something new.


----------



## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Woodford said:


> Thanks for the feedback guys- let us know how that turns out if you think of it, Jmays?
> 
> 
> 
> .




Mixed results today. This job was done with Advance base 1 white custom mix. The first door I checked out (18 days old) seemed harder than the satin I tested previously. Still though it would mar under my fingernail. Just slightly, and I had to push fairly hard. Idk if it's even visible in this pic but here it is. 









Also on the inside of one exterior door done at the same time there was some bad scratching around the knob. Very possible these happened while the film was still fresh. Not sure what caused them, maybe a key or something. 









However, on several other doors and windows done a few days later (around 15 days old) I couldn't mar the film with my nail no matter how hard I tried. The film was very hard and didn't mark up at all. 

A wooden top on a knee wall would mar similarly to the first door. 

Most of the trim in this house did not exhibit the softness I had been seeing on some other jobs with the exception of a couple doors and the top of the knee wall. 

Very perplexing. I don't even have a guess as to what could be different about those couple items that caused the film on them to be softer than the rest. I did all the trim myself by roll/brush and followed recommended dry times on all of it. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

I'll shout at my rep and see what he has to say about it; maybe there's something peculiar about the Advance I'm not considering that could be causing this. Very odd, though, and definitely something to be aware of at the very least.

Edit: Again, really appreciate the info Jmays. The more I know about the products the better I can help people make informed decisions on what they want to use.


----------



## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

I would chalk it up the environmental conditions. Air exchange, temperature, relative humidity, application thickness, color, substrate, primer, all factor into cure time.


----------

