# RRP Delayed?



## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

Senate just passed a bill that would delay RRP untill sept 30th. It is going to the house now. I got certified but I would really like to see the rule just die.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/arti...ticleid=20100527_11_0_WASHIN506714&rss_lnk=11


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

If you are talking about H.R. 5177, that only delays it until courses have been offered for a year in your state.


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## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

my guess is the rule will stay and we need to be prepared for it, but this is one time I would happily say I wasted money on a class and certification if they were to just kill it. I would not complain one bit about it. I know the home builders association is trying to get it delayed more. I'm going to write my congressmen and tell them to kill it or at least modify and clarify the rule a little. Probably will not do any good but it will make me feel better.


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## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

Oklahoma's first class was this month according to the tulsa world so that would give Oklahomans a lot of time. I went to the first class I could find in state and that was after the rule went into effect may 4th. I think it was the first one offered anywhere in state. Oklahoma is a little behind the times.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

Ah, now I see the link. If you sign up for a class by Sept 30, you won't get fined (if it passes) Here is another article.


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## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

Well I just emailed all my congressmen I hope something good comes out of it. This rule is the only thing that actually scares me and I think could prevent me from being very successful. No one else in my town is following the rule and probably will not. I have seen numerous violations. Currently my neighbors house built 1950's exterior is being redone and it is not RRP standards. This makes it difficult to bid against plus since Im one of the few certified I will probably be the only one that gets audited by the epa. But that is enough negativity. I emailed my congressmen thats all I can do. Now its time to move on and deal with it.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

jacob33 said:


> Well I just emailed all my congressmen I hope something good comes out of it. This rule is the only thing that actually scares me and I think could prevent me from being very successful. No one else in my town is following the rule and probably will not. I have seen numerous violations. Currently my neighbors house built 1950's exterior is being redone and it is not RRP standards. This makes it difficult to bid against plus since Im one of the few certified I will probably be the only one that gets audited by the epa. But that is enough negativity. I emailed my congressmen thats all I can do. Now its time to move on and deal with it.


 
Here in Marylands 6th largest city I have not seen ANY contractors following the law.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

chrisn said:


> Here in Marylands 6th largest city I have not seen ANY contractors following the law.


I havent yet either. 

I passed a crew of 10 - 12 illegals on a job on a huge turn of the century colonial in the center of a very historic town grinding and sanding like crazy.


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

jacob33 said:


> No one else in my town is following the rule and probably will not. I have seen numerous violations. ....since Im one of the few certified I will probably be the only one that gets audited by the epa..





chrisn said:


> Here in Marylands 6th largest city I have not seen ANY contractors following the law.





NEPS.US said:


> I havent yet either.
> 
> I passed a crew of 10 - 12 illegals on a job on a huge turn of the century colonial in the center of a very historic town grinding and sanding like crazy.



I have always made it a rule to not be a narc. I have always stayed out things that are not my business. And I have never narced on anyone before.

All though I would not have hesitated to do so if it was a very serious crime where there was an innocent victim.

I am starting to wonder what degree being a narc goes against my values in this situation.

If people are going to be not following this lead rule are going to be benefiting and driving people out of business who ARE making the numerous sacrifices to be in compliance, and if the people who are registered and in compliance are even more likely to get reviewed by the bureaucrats who need to find stuff to do in order to justify their salaries, then it seems that leveling the playing field wouldn't be a bad thing.

What about getting anonymous notes to such businesses who are in clear violation of the lead certification laws, and in big red letters the 37,000 fine, with a warning that if you see them on the job again, you will turn them in.

Advise them to simply give back any money they took from their clients and find a good excuse to cease all work at that point.

Or what about just turning them in? Seems cut-throat, but a bunch of people working under the table AND not following lead laws is also cut-throat. 

I am all for not being a narc, but is like being a narc? Or is it like someone punches you and takes your wallet, then in self defense you punch them and take it back?


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## Paintuh4Life (May 20, 2009)

Since this whole thing was the result of a lawsuit, there is no way it's just going to go away.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

NEPS.US said:


> I havent yet either.
> 
> I passed a crew of 10 - 12 illegals on a job on a huge turn of the century colonial in the center of a very historic town grinding and sanding like crazy.


Chris,

There is a little know part of the law that exempts any house that is within musket ball shot of a historic "Battle Green"


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

daArch said:


> Chris,
> 
> There is a little know part of the law that exempts any house that is within musket ball shot of a historic "Battle Green"


*daArch* 
Senior Moment
Unless neps's name is Chris also the senior moment is getting extensive.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Yes Chris,

He shares the same Christian name as you and RCP. 

I may be old and forgetful, 

but .......

what was I saying?


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

daArch said:


> Chris,
> 
> There is a little know part of the law that exempts any house that is within musket ball shot of a historic "Battle Green"


:yes: Bill is too smart sometimes.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

daArch said:


> Yes Chris,
> 
> He shares the same Christian name as you and RCP.
> 
> ...


OK,I have benn known to be wrong once or twice:whistling2:


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

chrisn said:


> OK,I have benn known to be wrong once or twice:whistling2:


But never when it comes to Behr!:notworthy:


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

RCP said:


> But never when it comes to Behr!:notworthy:


 Well, we all have our little quirks


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

Last Craftsman said:


> If people are going to be not following this lead rule are going to be benefiting and driving people out of business who ARE making the numerous sacrifices to be in compliance, and if the people who are registered and in compliance are even more likely to get reviewed by the bureaucrats who need to find stuff to do in order to justify their salaries, then it seems that leveling the playing field wouldn't be a bad thing.
> 
> What about getting anonymous notes to such businesses who are in clear violation of the lead certification laws, and in big red letters the 37,000 fine, with a warning that if you see them on the job again, you will turn them in.
> 
> ...


I am surprised no one responded to this.

Do people not have an opinion on whether it is Kosher or not to report a business who is not in compliance?

I personally haven't decided where I stand on the issue. I lean towards not reporting people, and minding my own business. 

Is this topic taboo? The only reasons I can think of to not comment on it are, that no one wants to identify themselves as someone who would report an illegitimate business so that when they do in their town no one suspects them, or that some people here may be operating to some degree or another in a way that is not in compliance so it is out of the question for them to turn someone else in because they would be a hypocrite to do so.


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## oldpaintdoc (Apr 11, 2010)

Last Craftsman said:


> I am surprised no one responded to this.
> 
> Do people not have an opinion on whether it is Kosher or not to report a business who is not in compliance?
> 
> ...


Crafty,

In my mind it is not the reporting that is the problem. 
The problem is that the government really really really wants us to start turning each other in.
Separate the masses make's control much easier.
It's a control thing.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

Gee, what if more trades participated in forums like this, trade associations like PDCA, NARI, NAHB and overall did a better job of raising the industry standards?

These Lead Rules have been in place for years and the EPA hoped for voluntary compliance. It was not until they were sued and the judge ordered them to implement the RRP that all this came about. 

Although I agree the EPA has done a poor job promoting and implementing the program, I don't think they are really enjoying this any more than us.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

Last Craftsman said:


> I am surprised no one responded to this.
> 
> Do people not have an opinion on whether it is Kosher or not to report a business who is not in compliance?
> 
> ...


I have stated this before, I would prefer to help educate both the Homeowner and the Contractor to follow the rule. If either party chooses to knowingly ignore the law and endanger the safety of others, I probably would be inclined to do something about it.


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

ragebhardt said:


> Crafty,


That's a new one.



ragebhardt said:


> In my mind it is not the reporting that is the problem.
> The problem is that the government really really really wants us to start turning each other in.
> Separate the masses make's control much easier.
> It's a control thing.


Trust me, you aren't going to get any disagreements from me about your stance you have presented that this is just another form of controlling us.

But in the mean time, how does one reconcile the desire to not adversely affect another person, while at the same time protecting one's self.

Even undocumented workers never bothered me. I have even worked on the same job at the same time where undocumented workers had underbid the company I worked for for part of the job.

I treated them just like anyone else. I even complimented them on their work.

But the difference now is these new procedures for being in compliance while removing lead paint are excessively cumbersome in most situations, it adds a HUGE expense both financially and logistically, they don't differentiate between high lead risk activity, and low lead risk activity, and in the interim it punishes people who are not in compliance, while rewarding those who are not.

Combine a business who is not in compliance with one who is also not bidding to be in compliance with the new laws and it is virtually impossible to compete with their bid.

So your post seemed inconclusive, are you saying you *do* advocate reporting a business who is clearly in violation, but that you don't like what is ultimately behind the motivation for the legislation? Or that you *do not* support reporting people because ultimately you feel that it is one more front to promote a system where we are all step in line and become individual extensions of big brother?


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

Last Craftsman said:


> I am surprised no one responded to this.
> 
> Do people not have an opinion on whether it is Kosher or not to report a business who is not in compliance?
> 
> ...


LC: Go to general painting and check the "rusty painters..." thread. This discussion has been going on for a lil bit. Good discussion about exactly your post.


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## oldpaintdoc (Apr 11, 2010)

Last Craftsman said:


> That's a new one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No, I do not advocate reporting, But, I am stuck on really how to handle it.

Yes, I do not support reporting people. Again I am stuck.

Right now the way I am handling it is by refusing to do any RRP work.
As of now I have enough work to do that.
But, the time may come and a choice will have to be made.


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

ragebhardt said:


> Right now the way I am handling it is by refusing to do any RRP work.



Well that really is a separate issue.

Potentially you could be utilizing that strategy even if you knew everyone who was working on pre-78 homes was going to be in compliance, so that reporting people would not be an issue.


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## Dean CRCNA (Feb 4, 2010)

jacob33 said:


> Senate just passed a bill that would delay RRP untill sept 30th. It is going to the house now. I got certified but I would really like to see the rule just die.
> 
> http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/arti...ticleid=20100527_11_0_WASHIN506714&rss_lnk=11


Just wanted to clarify (along with RCP) that this bill does not *delay* *RRP*. The bill that was passed (yet to be signed) is about not using certain funds to issue fines. Fines however, can still be issued by EPA.

It is basically a worthless addition to the bill and was just done for grand standing.


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