# Advice on SW paints for Interior Repaint jobs



## BrushPro (Nov 15, 2018)

Hey guys, new to the forum here. I'm in the process of starting up a company focusing on interior repaints and I'm meeting with a Sherwin Williams rep tomorrow to start an account. My question is what paints do you recommend and why. I want to have 3 tiers of paint prices to propose to my customers to meet their needs.

From my own experience my thoughts are:

Ceilings-Promar 400 ( this is what I'm used to maybe not the best)

Walls- Promar 200 for lower priced jobs

Super paint for mid range? And for better coverage on hard color changes?

Duration for Hi end? I don't really love Emerald so maybe even considering BMs Aura for Hi End.

Trim/doors: my old company used ASE and I don't really love it.

Considering proclassic alykd but never used it. Was wondering the price difference and if it is worth it.

I've seen people use super paint on trim and even promar 200 semi gloss. But I don't really have the experience to know if this is a terrible idea. In my mind it seems like a terrible idea lol.

Anyways let me know your thoughts and opinions.
Cheers


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

BrushPro said:


> Hey guys, new to the forum here. I'm in the process of starting up a company focusing on interior repaints and I'm meeting with a Sherwin Williams rep tomorrow to start an account. My question is what paints do you recommend and why. I want to have 3 tiers of paint prices to propose to my customers to meet their needs.
> 
> From my own experience my thoughts are:
> 
> ...



Regal, Ben, Ultraspec500. Check out some of the competition and thank your self later.


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## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

I've not been happy with any SW paint for ceilings. Emminence just doesn't cut it. PM 400 is ok. It IS a dead flat which is good. I mostly use SuperPaint Satin and it's a good mid-grade, workhorse type paint. I avoid Duration and Emerald (except the flat), they are simply overrated IMO. I use a lot of ProClassic Waterborne and it's comparable to Advance, but just not as good. It does level out nice and provides that shiny, hard, beautiful white that everyone loves for trim and doors these days. It's pricey so warn your customers ahead of time. 

Cashmere is good stuff at SW but the sheens are way off. Low-Lustre is shinier than Semi-gloss and the Pearl finish is close to being Satin. Otherwise, it goes on buttery smooth and is pretty good stuff. Make sure your rep gives you contractor pricing. They can be rather stingy about that.


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## BrushPro (Nov 15, 2018)

I forgot about cashmere, I haven't used the stuff though. I have painted a lot with Opulence at the old company mainly doing matte finishes. It was nice for new construction, but I think eg shel and similar Sheens should be going on walls for repaints. Thanks for the in put I'll definitely ask for contractor pricing.


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

if you dealing with:

homeowners:
use anything sherwin williams, homeowners think they are god, store on every corner & 40% off sales all the time, but beware SW is a rabbit hole

GC's: PPG, great products, fair price and GC's are looking only at numbers

Building a company name?
Benjamin Moore delivers quality 

they all have good & bad products, learn you market, you can make money doing production work painting rentals or painting high dollar homes ... find your niche


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## BrushPro (Nov 15, 2018)

Thanks for the input, I'll be looking into the other stores for sure but like you said there are a lot of SW in my neighborhood and I'm used to some of there products and have personal connections.


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## K.I.P (Nov 14, 2018)

From sw, when we used it, this is our list 

Lower end 
Ceilings: CHB it’s dead flat we used this on all jobs unless specified. 

Walls: sherscrub eggshell

Trim: pro classic latex. Also, we used this on all jobs. We had great luck with it

Higher end walls we would bump up to cashmere or duration. 

Exterior we used a lot of super paint and toward the end started using emerald. 

Now we use exclusively Ben Moore. Ultra spec on walls for basic jobs. Regal on higher end. Coronado super kite 5000 high build on ceilings and rust cat on most all trim unless they want advance or an oil base


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## BrushPro (Nov 15, 2018)

Awesome, my uncle used chb on ceilings too. Thanks for the ideas


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

For ceilings I use masterhide but that's a regional product, from what I've gathered it's much like chb.

Walls I pretty much stick to either SuperPaint or Cashmere unless otherwise specified. They're the same price and depending on the sheen desired I use one or the other. If they want a satin/eggshell finish I use SuperPaint velvet (I don't like the satin) and for a flat finish I go with Cashmere Flat Enamel. 

I don't like to play with Promar 200 or cheaper even on lower end jobs. I find the money saved on the materials is spent on the labor required to apply it especially if there's a bigger color change.

For trim my go-to mid grade is Cashmere medium luster. Super easy to work with and has a nice finish to it. For higher end stuff I use either Proclassic acrylic Semi or the Proindustrial water-based Alkyd Urethane Enamel. Lately I'm partial to the pro industrial because I find it a little easier to work with and I like the finish better. 

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## Local paint pro (May 15, 2018)

I have the same set of problems from sherwin, but i still use them for some things. Ceiling paint isn't good compared to others at same price point, (i use coronado final touch). I too like cashmere for a medium paint, but for lower grade paint i usually use ppg products or ultraspec 500. High end paint i would prefer to use regal, but SW gives me duration $7 a gallon cheaper so i use it despite my knowing it isn't as good as regal. I currently put emerald urethane on trim high end or PI Multi-surface Acrylic medium and lower. Gonna need to play the paint companies against each other, they aren't gonna give much in the beginning. They will try make you feel like they are going to bend over backwards to help you get going (this is Bull****), don't buy in and shop around. SHERWIN will be happy to make you their paint slave. POST some of the prices they quote you, we ll be happy to give some input./


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## PaPainter724 (Apr 22, 2016)

Of the big three, SW is pretty much the worst, but you can skate by with their products, since everyone else does.

For low to mid range jobs I think ProMar 200 is fine. People like to knock it, but I've used it on countless commercial jobs and even quite a few higher end jobs *by customer or GC spec* and it worked as well as SuperPaint but went on a little nicer, IMO. From what I've been told by a few former SW reps, SuperPaint is essentially ProMar but with a thickening agent, primarily talc, to give it that heavy feel that people associate with quality paint. In my experience, it doesn't cover any better than ProMar. 

For higher end homes, I like Duration. I know some people here don't care for it, but it's the only SW product that I would actually use in my own home.

ProClassic water based is the only good option for trim, in my humble opinion. But it has a small learning curve because it likes to sag and run if you're not careful. I got burned once after getting used to MCuralo/California Ultra and then using this and had a number of runs in a room I did. Once you get used to it, it's a nice product. Can't touch Ultra though.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Don't.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

PaPainter724 said:


> Of the big three, SW is pretty much the worst, but you can skate by with their products, since everyone else does.
> 
> For low to mid range jobs I think ProMar 200 is fine. People like to knock it, but I've used it on countless commercial jobs and even quite a few higher end jobs *by customer or GC spec* and it worked as well as SuperPaint but went on a little nicer, IMO. From what I've been told by a few former SW reps, SuperPaint is essentially ProMar but with a thickening agent, primarily talc, to give it that heavy feel that people associate with quality paint. In my experience, it doesn't cover any better than ProMar.
> 
> ...


Perfectly said.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

In a nutshell, if you want or need to over pay SW to help market your business than by all means use their product. But in reality how far will that get you when every other painter is doing the same thing? If you feel that it is best for your business to distinguish it from your competitors and not rely on just pricing to sell your services (it is!), than go somewhere else. Like Ben Moore, Pratt & Lambert, CALIFORNIA, etc. Hell even PPG gives you a much better product for the money. At the very least use those other paint companies (PPG in particular) to help keep SW's pricing and very spotty service in check.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

Get accounts at all the big three. Dont limit yourself to SW. Once you see how bad they jack their prices up, you'll have a different opinion about them. As far as customers, I tell them straight up what I think about SW. They never have a problem using my paint store, except for the rare occasion where they dont want to risk a color match.


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## Mr Smith (Mar 11, 2016)

BrushPro said:


> Awesome, my uncle used chb on ceilings too. Thanks for the ideas


What is CHB?


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## Mr Smith (Mar 11, 2016)

Most of my customers want an eggshell sheen. I prefer a lower gloss eggshell like BM Ultra Spec 500. Of any paint I've used this looks the best. How durable is another question? I have no idea. I use it in offices or when a client is selling their house.

I'm afraid to use Sherwin Wiliams because my rep tells me all of their eggshells are really shiny. They don't seem to have a line just below eggshell. I don't want to use matte on walls. Another thing about SW is their high prices. MY SW rep doesn't have the authority to give me better deals it seems. He could be lying of course. Their prices are higher than Benjamin Moore and BM has better paint.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Regal, Ben, Ultraspec500. Check out some of the competition and thank your self later.


You forgot scuff x on the trim and 508 on the lids.  But YES to the wisdom here.

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## Mr Smith (Mar 11, 2016)

lilpaintchic said:


> You forgot scuff x on the trim and 508 on the lids.  But YES to the wisdom here.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


You use Scuff-X on doors and trim? My go-to trim paint is Regal semi-gloss.

Does Scuff-X run when spraying?

One thing I hate about Benjamin Moore is that all the individual stores are privately owned. You don't have sales reps who comp you fivers like the big companies. I've never once in my life been comped even a single gallon by a BM store owner. They aren't the best salesman.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Mr Smith said:


> You use Scuff-X on doors and trim? My go-to trim paint is Regal semi-gloss.
> 
> Does Scuff-X run when spraying?
> 
> One thing I hate about Benjamin Moore is that all the individual stores are privately owned. You don't have sales reps who comp you fivers like the big companies. I've never once in my life been comped even a single gallon by a BM store owner. They aren't the best salesman.



Being independent is a double edge sword of course. I frequently comp various gallons and E&J stuff at my store especially for new customers or guys who haven't used a particular product like CC or scuffX. I have also comped 5's but that usually comes as a credit from BM and not from me. 



Your welcome to stop by my store any time, I'll hook you up.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

Mr Smith said:


> You use Scuff-X on doors and trim? My go-to trim paint is Regal semi-gloss.
> 
> Does Scuff-X run when spraying?
> 
> One thing I hate about Benjamin Moore is that all the individual stores are privately owned. You don't have sales reps who comp you fivers like the big companies. I've never once in my life been comped even a single gallon by a BM store owner. They aren't the best salesman.


I absolutely use scuffx on doors and trim. Its a dream to work with.anything will run and sag if not applied properly but this product isn't as finicky as some others and rolls,brushes or sprays very easily leaving a rock hard surface ready for recoat (if needed) very quickly. It also seems to cover very well in the dark and white bases that I've used


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

lilpaintchic said:


> I absolutely use scuffx on doors and trim. Its a dream to work with.anything will run and sag if not applied properly but this product isn't as finicky as some others and rolls,brushes or sprays very easily leaving a rock hard surface ready for recoat (if needed) very quickly. It also seems to cover very well in the dark and white bases that I've used
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk



I havn't sprayed scuffx my self but it seems to lay out pretty nice with a brush and microplush without any extender.

The semi-gloss scuffx (coming soon?) supposed to have some anti-chip technology with it too.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Mr Smith said:


> lilpaintchic said:
> 
> 
> > You forgot scuff x on the trim and 508 on the lids.
> ...


 Here in Newfoundland, BM is distributed through "The Paint Shop". They're a chain store but individually owned. They have a B.M rep and hes compin me stuff all the time. 
Buys me beer, paint ball outings, bbqs. You name it.
I used to buy alot from Dulux when I lived in BC. Because they had great customer service and pretty good products. 
But the service at the stores out East is so bad I stopped going..
All about customer service..sometimes.


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## BrushPro (Nov 15, 2018)

I agree customer service is a big one. The paint rep I met today is good in that way and they know me from my previous company. So they are into helping out getting going and if I make money so do they lol. I know the BM guy too so he will be my next target now that I have something to go off of. 

The good thing about the SW rep is I can call him to sites and have him help me out with those tricky customers. Looks more professional with back up


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

PACman said:


> . But in reality how far will that get you when every other painter is doing the same thing?



That can be said about a bunch of different companies. Look at all the people on here saying Ben Moore? Big deal, now he's got to buy BM and compete with people putting on BM. Now what? 



Can't use that as a valid argument of a business proposition. This guy has to figure out a niche in his business market, the way he runs/operates his crew, marketing, maybe all of the above.


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

BrushPro said:


> Hey guys, question is what paints do you recommend and why. *I want to have 3 tiers of paint prices* to propose to my customers to meet their needs.
> Cheers



I'll give my 2 cents, take it for what it's worth. 



This is what I would do if I was you because I've tried that price tier thing and when I re-worded my proposals it showed me how to set them up. 



Spec the customer. Ask them. If you feel the customer wants a cheap job. Ask them specifically and to their face. Do you want a cheap in and out paint job? Chances are they'll back up and say "no", they don't want a shi*ty job. Ok...then you can establish what type of work they want. 



It's going to come down to the scope of work, more so than the paint products used. If they want you to caulk every single joint in the house, that's going to cost a ton more money (labor) than it is if you pay $24 per gallon for promar 400 vs $29 for promar 200. Going to cost WAY more. So don't train your mind into thinking that the cost of the product is the big factor in it, chances are it's labor or unseen labor.




With that being said. Create a standard for your company. Specify that as "this is what we recommend". Then follow it up with 2 different price points based *ONLY *on cost of material differential, giving you a total of "3" price points. $5,000 to use emerald (recommended), $4,500 (super paint), and $3,800 (a100). Or whatever. 



The labor will remain the same. A lot of guys will try and lower and lower the cost of the total by subtracting some hours here, fudging this there, and then picking a lower grade paint in attempts to win the bid. At some point in time, you hit a road block and now your risking a lot. Same labor hours, different paints is all.


With that being said, these are my recommendations for you:


Walls/Ceilings:
EcoSelect, Property Solutions, or Painter's Edge (low grade)
Promar Series (mid grade)
Promar 200HP, Cashmere, Duration/Emerald (higher grade)


Trim: Trim paint will always cost more than wall paint (should anyway)

Solo (decent price, good product though) [interior/exterior]
ProClassic (high grade) [interior only]
Pro Industrial WB Alkyd Urethane (high grade) [interior/exterior]



Primers:
For spraying only: Hi-Build Primer / Surfacer
Others: 

PVA (low price)
Wall and Wood (high)
Extreme Bond (very high) [benefit is it will help to hard to stick surface and conversion of oil to wb coatings] 





Lots to learn in this industry, wish it was as simple as 1 or 2 paints, brush or roll. But too many coatings for too many variety of substrates and situations. 



Good luck!


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## BrushPro (Nov 15, 2018)

woodcoyote said:


> I'll give my 2 cents, take it for what it's worth.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Really awesome reply thanks! I do understand that labour is the number one cost. I'm not interested in banging jobs out and having low quality work, my goal is honest, quality work and being a dependable company true to there word. But I do want that few hundred dollar wiggle room in jobs and an ability to meet customer needs. If they don't care about the paint-- pro mar 200, if they care about finish--cashmere ( Opulence in Canada) etc...

Thanks for taking the time to write your reply though!


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## darrpreb00 (Aug 31, 2008)

S-W can get extremely cheap for Promar 200. Around $20 easy if you have buying power. We just use it on everything. Low VOC for all!

Use the notes section to say “Add $500 for Superpaint and 800 for emerald” or whatever

I’d keep it simple though... Use the same interior paint on all jobs... Value is just as important as quality.

Upcharge for anything else and sell on customer service/ value


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

woodcoyote said:


> I'll give my 2 cents, take it for what it's worth.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They may say they don't want a cheap, crappy job but when you give them a price that is above their expectations they'll squirm like a worm!


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

Brushman4 said:


> They may say they don't want a cheap, crappy job but when you give them a price that is above their expectations they'll squirm like a worm!



And how many of those clients usually turn into an issue later? 



I've found they are either tire kickers or they are pain in the rear people looking to get stuff for virtually free. 



Screw that, we got heavy duty bills to pay, none of this do great quality work for a cheap price around here. 


Down payments and phase out payment schedules on the people that nickle and dime. Can't be trusted.


*edit*:
this is where a good proposal and contract detailing everything you plan on doing plus all the steps involved. Sometimes it goes to show them there is a lot more work into it than taking a brush and slapping paint on stuff. 



It also helps protect the contractor from customers holding your check hostage because "paint doors" on your simple line item sheet, also happened to mean painting all the doors in the house, not just the room you came to look at. After all, devil is in the details.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

You also shouldn't eat hamburgers at Red Robin because there is a McDonalds in every town and they are a better value.


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## Uplift LLC (Jan 11, 2022)

Repaint Florida said:


> if you dealing with:
> 
> homeowners:
> use anything sherwin williams, homeowners think they are god, store on every corner & 40% off sales all the time, but beware SW is a rabbit hole
> ...


I agree. I started a design/remodel company in May. I keep going back to BM. I’m currently loving Scuff X. From my experience, customers will pay the upgrade fees, if educated on the paints. I’ve just used it on my own house, and wished I had found it sooner!! I painted a year ago and have scuff marks everywhere!! Ugh!! I have heard it’s not great at taking lots of washings. Anyone, have any knowledge on this? I’ve currently used it on walls, wainscoting and cabinets. So far, it’s been great!


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