# Do I have to prime ceiling first?



## SergioThePainter (Jun 18, 2017)

I need to paint a ceiling that was recently textured. It's bare drywall and texture at the moment. I will be using an airless sprayer to apply my paint. My customer wants to keep cost low and skip the primer. Will this be ok? 
What will be the consequences?


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Use a self priming ceiling paint and your good to go. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

behr makes great ceiling paint


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

H


SergioThePainter said:


> I need to paint a ceiling that was recently textured. It's bare drywall and texture at the moment. I will be using an airless sprayer to apply my paint. My customer wants to keep cost low and skip the primer. Will this be ok?
> What will be the consequences?


As long as the finish is a flat, you shouldn't have any issues.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Jmayspaint said:


> Use a self priming ceiling paint and your good to go.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Ohhh PAC! Where aaarrre youuu?


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

You mention a ceiling needs to be painted, as opposed to an entire house's worth of ceilings. If it were me, I would prime it first. Zinsser costs around 16 dollars a gallon. I don't know the size of that ceiling, but I would spend the 16-32 dollars and seal that fresh drywall and texture with 1 2 3 before applying the topcoats.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

RH said:


> Ohhh PAC! Where aaarrre youuu?




Good question. 
I would like hear his take on using the BM 508 direct over new Sheetrock. Always did fine for me. 




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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

I see no reason to prime it. Ceilings can be painted with $14 a gallon Mopaco or something self-priming thats designed for new construction. and I dont mean paint and primer in one. You can use cheap sh*t. 90% of houses you walk into have one good sprayed coat of cheap self priming ceiling paint, usually not even backrolled, without primer. Usually the same ceiling paint is used for the primer on the walls as well, with no issues.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

CAN you? sure, Should you ??


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

A good flat ceiling paint should be fine with two coats. I do recommend a primer simply because it will keep the paint from being soaked to oblivion by the drywall and help avoid any flashing problems. If the paint you are using has any sheen whatsoever you will be well served to prime first. The hard part is that some cheap flat paints work fine on ceilings and some don't. So how do you know? Simple thing to do is buy something a little higher quality. 508 in my experience works fine with two coats most of the time. 

The big thing is that you are never really sure of is the quality of the drywall and the mud. That can cause flashing and hide issues as well. I had a painter recently that painted a new constructing house with a cheap California ceiling paint and it worked fine until he painted the finished ceiling in the basement. Then it was flashing and had what looked like streaks in it even after four coats. We played hell trying to figure out what was happening until he asked the builder (at my urging) if he had done something different in the basement. Well it turns out the original spec for the house was for the basement ceilings not to be drywalled, but for whatever reason a change order was issued and he had to send his guys to a box store to get the cheapest drywall they could get. It was a different brand and quality than what the rest of the house was. If he had primed he would have avoided the problem altogether. So if using a decent primer for a first coat costs the same or less to apply than a first coat of paint, and it would help minimize the potential of problems, why not just do it? 

I know a lot of new construction is just one coat and even though it gets the house sold, it is really just passing the potential for problems on to someone else.

And the Behr Ceiling paint isn't any better or worse than most ceiling paints in it's price range, although it is a little more gray and chalky than some of them. But those two things typically aren't a big issue on ceilings. The marketing is the problem. As long as they are telling consumers lies about the performance potential of their products i will have issue with them.

And sorry for the delayed response but i had a long weekend.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Questions*



SergioThePainter said:


> I need to paint a ceiling that was recently textured. It's bare drywall and texture at the moment. I will be using an airless sprayer to apply my paint. My customer wants to keep cost low and skip the primer. Will this be ok?
> What will be the consequences?


How big is the ceiling? Is it vaulted or something other than a standard flat ceiling?

futtyos


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## SergioThePainter (Jun 18, 2017)

So i didn't prime. The drywall soaked up the paint like a sponge. 
After two coats the knockdown was a bright white in contrast to the grey drywall. I had to give a third thick coat 
It was a normal flat ceiling.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

You sprayed three coats?? What paint, and what size tip were you using?? Im thinking you just didnt spray it heavy enough. I used to paint new tract homes. We sprayed one good heavy coat with a 619 on all the walls and lids and it was good to go. Of course the walls were prep coated before texture, so that helps.

Primer or not, it would have been the same thing, though. Three coats either way. 

Next time, backroll it. You'll know if you're putting enough paint on that way.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*How big was the ceiling?*



SergioThePainter said:


> So i didn't prime. The drywall soaked up the paint like a sponge.
> After two coats the knockdown was a bright white in contrast to the grey drywall. I had to give a third thick coat
> It was a normal flat ceiling.


Well, you did tell us that it was a normal flat ceiling, but you did not tell us how big the ceiling was. I am guessing it was big enough for you to have used a sprayer.

If'n it were me, I woulda done what I did at my sisters house: double wide trailor home, living room, dining room kitchen and hallway with wood trim separating the living room from all the rest. The ceiling was textured and for the last 15 years (since she had the trailors set up on her property) I thought the ceiling was finished. Then she had her roof redone. The roofer took off the old roof and left for the night without tarping the roof. You guessed it! Dark water stains in alomst every room. The next year (last year) on my yearly visit to Branson MO, I primed the water stains with 2 coats of BIN, then applied a heavy coat of Gardz, then 2 coats of Behr PPU Ceiling White. Almost covered in one coat, but the second coat cinched it.

Since I mentioned Behr PPU Ceiling White, I thought I might also mention that it is the best ceiling paint to roll out I have used so far. And going over a coat of Gardz makes rolling it out a dream from painter's heaven. The textured ceiling did not soak up any of the water in the ceiling paint. This is the way it should be and the way I like it to be. I was so happy.

Why not try sealing a ceiling with Gardz on your next ceiling job? Go ahead, give it a try. I guarantee you will find it interesting and most likely habit forming. 

futtyos


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

I just primed an entire 4500 square foot new construction with gardz. I did it three days ago, and the exposed section on the back of my wrist still has gardz stuck to it. I sprayed one top coat on the lidz. I had my helper rolling a first coat on the walls. I'll have to give one a try just to see how nice the gardz makes it. It was actually cost effective. I got about 500 ft. per gallon, and I paid $22 a gallon. Used 22 gallons on 11,000 ft of surface area. I estimated 40, so thats an extra $500 in my pocket right there!


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Spraying Gardz*



Woodco said:


> I just primed an entire 4500 square foot new construction with gardz. I did it three days ago, and the exposed section on the back of my wrist still has gardz stuck to it. I sprayed one top coat on the lidz. I had my helper rolling a first coat on the walls. I'll have to give one a try just to see how nice the gardz makes it. It was actually cost effective. I got about 500 ft. per gallon, and I paid $22 a gallon. Used 22 gallons on 11,000 ft of surface area. I estimated 40, so thats an extra $500 in my pocket right there!


This is the largest job I have ever heard Gardz being used on! Please keep us posted with details about how the painting goes over the Gardz.

futtyos


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

guess you should have primed it huh?


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

futtyos said:


> This is the largest job I have ever heard Gardz being used on! Please keep us posted with details about how the painting goes over the Gardz.
> 
> futtyos


Well, I thought I sprayed it on good, but when it was dry, there were shiny streaks in the primer. I didnt think it would matter..... It did.lain: The shiny streaks flashed through a spray and backroll, and another coat on top of it, and my guy rerolled one of the bigger areas, with an 18" roller, and they still showed through. I came back and rerolled a few rooms in the opposite direction of the spray. I'll see if it goes away tomorrow...

First I thought maybe I needed to upgrade my lid paint,. but my guy first coated some walls with pure performance flat, and streaks showed through on the walls too. I second coated a couple walls just to see if it would help, and I think it did. I'll report back tomorrow after we see how it looks....

Moral of the story: backroll your gardz if you choose to spray it on new texture.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Follow the directions*



Woodco said:


> Well, I thought I sprayed it on good, but when it was dry, there were shiny streaks in the primer. I didnt think it would matter..... It did.lain: The shiny streaks flashed through a spray and backroll, and another coat on top of it, and my guy rerolled one of the bigger areas, with an 18" roller, and they still showed through. I came back and rerolled a few rooms in the opposite direction of the spray. I'll see if it goes away tomorrow...
> 
> First I thought maybe I needed to upgrade my lid paint,. but my guy first coated some walls with pure performance flat, and streaks showed through on the walls too. I second coated a couple walls just to see if it would help, and I think it did. I'll report back tomorrow after we see how it looks....
> 
> Moral of the story: backroll your gardz if you choose to spray it on new texture.


Here are the directions for applying Gardz:

https://www.rustoleum.com/~/media/D...GDZ-01_GARDZ_High_Performance_Sealer_TDS.ashx

and a pertinent exerpt from the above TDS:

Properly sealed surfaces should
have a uniform sheen. Reapply to areas that have been
missed or lack sufficient coating. 

Nuff said.

futtyos


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

Follow the directions??? Why the hell would I do that, when I can learn a painful lesson instead?


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*!!!!!*



Woodco said:


> Follow the directions??? Why the hell would I do that, when I can learn a painful lesson instead?


Bless your heart, Woodco! 

futtyos


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

SergioThePainter said:


> So i didn't prime. The drywall soaked up the paint like a sponge.
> After two coats the knockdown was a bright white in contrast to the grey drywall. I had to give a third thick coat
> It was a normal flat ceiling.


When you say "normal flat ceiling" are you referring to the texture, paint sheen, or the architecture?

What paint did you use?


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## CK_68847 (Apr 17, 2010)

I have never primed a knockdown or textured ceiling. You should be able to cross hatch (spray) any type of paint, and it will look fine. If it is a smooth ceiling and flat white is being used, you should be able to cross hatch without priming and it will look fine. Now if you are using a medium to dark color flat, I would prime unless there is no natural light from windows in the room.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

Well you guys have me convinced, I'm never going to use Gardz

Primer, yes, I'll continue to prime every chance I get, but Gardz? Why would I want to double gardz just to try to get even flashing?


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## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

Whether it's guardz or primer, one of the main purposes of doing so is to make the surface all the same texture and porosity.

If you want the topcoat to level then dry and appear monolithic you really want the substrate to behave the same everywhere you are applying your topcoat. 

Whether you uniformly seal it vs make it uniformly porous is up to the painter I think and the characteristics of the top coat product choosen.

Then there is the "does this job have the windows, lighting, and budget" to do anything more than roll two topcoats over a bare substrate?

I've only rolled guardz and have never had flashing. I think it does bump the Sheen of the top coat or more likely doesn't reduce it's natural Sheen. 

I do like how it locks up the surface, does make drywall compound a bit harder (still soft compared to a veneer plaster) and penetrates the drywall and compound instead of sitting on top. 
It makes any additional primer/paint failure due to dust contamination non existent. 

I certainly like using it after a level 5 skim coat. I haven't used it on the wall prior to skimming. I heard it might work great for that as well. 


I will say guardz doesn't sand for crap and imho needs to be applied over a topcoat ready surface if using it for the purpose of creating uniformity.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

sayn3ver said:


> Whether it's guardz or primer, one of the main purposes of doing so is to make the surface all the same texture and porosity.
> 
> If you want the topcoat to level then dry and appear monolithic you really want the substrate to behave the same everywhere you are applying your topcoat.
> 
> ...


This conversation has been going on for DAYS.... Dont drag it any further!


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Gardz is great, Gardz is good*



sayn3ver said:


> Whether it's guardz or primer, one of the main purposes of doing so is to make the surface all the same texture and porosity.
> 
> If you want the topcoat to level then dry and appear monolithic you really want the substrate to behave the same everywhere you are applying your topcoat.
> 
> ...


Sayn3ver, I agree with everything you just said about Gardz except the sandability. I won't go so far as to say that Gardz will sand to a powder, but I am finding that if it is applied to a reasonably flat surface, a sponge sanding block will knock off any little nubs that got caught in the Gardz that might show up after paint is applied.

futtyos


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Gardz on garage wall*



Woodco said:


> This conversation has been going on for DAYS.... Dont drag it any further!


Woodco, did you paint the garage where you said you were going to Gardz one wall, prime another and straight up paint a third? If so, what were the results?

futtyos


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## kmmy2727 (Jul 24, 2017)

Very helpful...thanks!:biggrin:


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Helpful?*



kmmy2727 said:


> Very helpful...thanks!:biggrin:


kmmy2727, it would be helpful if I knew whatyou are replying to.

futtyos


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

No. This isn't China. You don't have to prime if you don't want to prime. You won't get sent away to a re-education camp if you don't prime a ceiling.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

futtyos said:


> Woodco, did you paint the garage where you said you were going to Gardz one wall, prime another and straight up paint a third? If so, what were the results?
> 
> futtyos


Its gonna be a while before I can do that.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

futtyos said:


> Sayn3ver, I agree with everything you just said about Gardz except the sandability. I won't go so far as to say that Gardz will sand to a powder, but I am finding that if it is applied to a reasonably flat surface, a sponge sanding block will knock off any little nubs that got caught in the Gardz that might show up after paint is applied.
> 
> futtyos



That is NOT sandability.... He is talking about being able to REALLY sand it down, and NO, it doesnt.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*What I said*



Woodco said:


> That is NOT sandability.... He is talking about being able to REALLY sand it down, and NO, it doesnt.


Woodco, I qualified what I meant about how Gardz sands. In the parallel universe I paint in, Gardz sands as I described. I certainly wouldn't use it where I needed the primer to powder off as I sanded it. I would use something else if I needed it to sand to that extent, but for a quick scuff to get little nubs off, a sponge sander works fine for me on Gardz.

futtyos


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