# Cutting in Ceilings Question



## Lean Bean (Aug 17, 2016)

Hey everyone,

New here, and relatively new to the painting industry.

I have a question regarding cutting in ceilings. I can achieve straight lines, but I am always unsure how much of a lip should be on the ceiling?

I have seen some painters leave a fairly large strip on the ceiling, like an 1/8th inch and I have seen some leave zero lip.

What is the proper way to do this? 

Thanks!!


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

What do you mean lip?? the ceiling is the ceiling and gets ceiling paint, the wall is the wall and gets wall paint, unless both are the same color.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

chrisn said:


> What do you mean lip?? the ceiling is the ceiling and gets ceiling paint, the wall is the wall and gets wall paint, unless both are the same color.


Not necessarily, it might be a regional thing. When I first moved to this area I noticed many places I'd be painting where the previous painter had left an eighth of an inch of the wall with ceiling paint. Basically, free handing (or at least trying) a straight line with wall colour. I'd never seen it before. Couldn't bring myself to do it either.

Funny thing was when I first started working for a guy who did this. We'd be working on places together and some rooms had this wee little strip and the rooms I'd paint would have wall to ceiling colour. He said it was just the way he'd always been taught and alot of other painters in the area did the same thing.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Not necessarily, it might be a regional thing. When I first moved to this area I noticed many places I'd be painting where the previous painter had left an eighth of an inch of the wall with ceiling paint. Basically, free handing (or at least trying) a straight line with wall colour. I'd never seen it before. Couldn't bring myself to do it either.
> 
> Funny thing was when I first started working for a guy who did this. We'd be working on places together and some rooms had this wee little strip and the rooms I'd paint would have wall to ceiling colour. He said it was just the way he'd always been taught and alot of other painters in the area did the same thing.


I have never in 32 years seen this! It would seem to me to be much more difficult to do it then to cut along the actual corner where the ceiling and the wall meet. ?


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## Lean Bean (Aug 17, 2016)

This is what I'm talking about... a lot of homes that I've seen have this lip on the ceiling. I am in Canada.

Thanks for the feedback.

It sucks when people don't want a ceiling paint job and you need to match the old lip.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Lean Bean said:


> This is what I'm talking about... a lot of homes that I've seen have this lip on the ceiling. I am in Canada.
> 
> Thanks for the feedback.
> 
> It sucks when people don't want a ceiling paint job and you need to match the old lip.


So, you're saying they brought the wall paint up onto the ceiling? That's weird. That's the reverse of what I've got going on around here. I think my life's easier as at least I can just cut in the wall to ceiling. I'd hate to have to freehand a straight line of wall paint on the ceiling.

Must be an Ontario thing. Never once saw this out in BC.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

I have seen it one time where the HO thought it would be easier to have about a 1/2 inch strip of the wall color come onto the ceiling. Horrible! I did not replicate the look.

Out here where there may be one type of heavy texture on the walls and another on the ceilings, trying to get a really straight cut line can sometimes be a challenge. *IF, and I really mean IF*, a good cut line is virtually impossible to do, then I will stray as little as possible onto the ceiling rather than have the dreaded white edge of ceiling paint come down onto the wall. When I see that done, my eye always goes directly to the white strip. Unfortunately, I have seen more than my share of "professional" jobs where that has been done. Again, *only if a quality cut line is virtually unachievable*, then just go the least amount possible onto the ceiling rather than the other way around.


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## MaddMaxx82 (Dec 3, 2014)

I have seen this plenty, but the exact opposite instance. It is taught in some circles that if your drywall is wavy at the ceiling line. Then bring the ceiling paint down on the wall a bit. Creating the illusion of a straight line, using the paint. The problems I have noticed with this method are in rooms with limited lighting sources, and lower ceilings, it doesn't work, and sticks out like sore thumb.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk


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## Ric (Oct 26, 2011)

MaddMaxx82 said:


> I have seen this plenty, but the exact opposite instance. It is taught in some circles that if your drywall is wavy at the ceiling line. Then bring the ceiling paint down on the wall a bit. Creating the illusion of a straight line, using the paint. The problems I have noticed with this method are in rooms with limited lighting sources, and lower ceilings, it doesn't work, and sticks out like sore thumb.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk


I'm with you, MM - I have always cut my ceilings that way. I strike a pencil line about 1/8 of an inch down from the ceiling and trim my wall paint against the pencil line. Absolutely straight & perfectly level every time (and as you mentioned, you don't see the wavy drywall lines when cutting into where the ceiling and walls meet) - and I find it easier, & faster, to cut against the pencil line than to cut a straight line against the rounded corners where ceiling and wall meet. I think it adds a very professional looking finishing touch to the room (never heard of running the wall paint up on the ceiling, though - that'd be really tough to trim against...)


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

So you mark and paint a perfectly straight line 1/8" from a wavy drywall line and that is supposed to HIDE the wavy line? I am totally lost now.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

RH said:


> I have seen it one time where the HO thought it would be easier to have about a 1/2 inch strip of the wall color come onto the ceiling. Horrible! I did not replicate the look.
> 
> Out here where there may be one type of heavy texture on the walls and another on the ceilings, trying to get a really straight cut line can sometimes be a challenge. *IF, and I really mean IF*, a good cut line is virtually impossible to do, then I will stray as little as possible onto the ceiling rather than have the dreaded white edge of ceiling paint come down onto the wall. When I see that done, my eye always goes directly to the white strip. Unfortunately, I have seen more than my share of "professional" jobs where that has been done. Again, *only if a quality cut line is virtually unachievable*, then just go the least amount possible onto the ceiling rather than the other way around.


Have you ever tried the tape knife trick to get a good line against the ceiling texture?


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## Ric (Oct 26, 2011)

PACman said:


> So you mark and paint a perfectly straight line 1/8" from a wavy drywall line and that is supposed to HIDE the wavy line? I am totally lost now.


yup...been doin' it for years.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

PACman said:


> Have you ever tried the tape knife trick to get a good line against the ceiling texture?


Yes, depending on the thickness of the texture that will often work to get a good cut line established. But if the texture is too extreme, say with a heavy knockdown, then that can be difficult to do. 

My favorite jobs are those where the texture guy put in such a line when he did the original work. I always wish I could meet the ones who have done that so I could buy em' a beer as a way to say thanks.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

I'll just stand by my original post. I cannot grasp the ceiling paint on the wall or the wall paint on the ceiling, it just DON"T make no sense:no:

and just what were YOU doing up at 2:14am??


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## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

PACman said:


> Have you ever tried the tape knife trick to get a good line against the ceiling texture?


This isn't about texture but I was on a job recently with some pretty bad original construction work. One wall/ceiling corner in a master bad had a pretty big wave in it, and it was a pretty obvious one being directly in line of sight when you walk in the room. We were going from one color all around to contrast. The GC looked at and basically said - "that one won't look so great" - and he's not a guy that pays a lot of attention to these details. Obvious. Anyway...a little help from a 12" tape knife and it looked straight when I was done.

As to the general question, I basically cut the corner as it seems most do. But when that isn't working out, it's a matter of perspective. There are certain places where lapping onto the ceiling will work because it will mostly only ever be seen from an angle where no one would notice. In other places it will be quite noticeable and you have to find another method. Lighting matters a lot too. In those bad corners where there isn't a line, will the lighting play up the shadows in the corner? If so, then you can't leave ceiling paint on the wall.

The most important things to cutting a good looking ceiling line: 1) a great brush; 2; your paint brush; 3) some experience; 4) a great brush.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Some of the most difficult to cut in can be those ceilings that come down at an angle of greater than 90 degrees to the wall and also have sheetrock seams that are less than even.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Ric said:


> yup...been doin' it for years.


That defies all physical logic. But it may be a trick of the eye so, who knows?


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## Pete6114 (Feb 27, 2016)

Lean Bean said:


> This is what I'm talking about... a lot of homes that I've seen have this lip on the ceiling. I am in Canada.
> 
> Thanks for the feedback.
> 
> It sucks when people don't want a ceiling paint job and you need to match the old lip.


No lip on the ceilings or walls for me. I get right into the corner and follow it regardless. When someone before me has gotten wall paint on the ceilings, i always point it out to the home owner and ask them if they want me to cover it or stay true to the corners. I'm not going to get blamed for a previously crappy cutin. Been there, done that....
When they ask for my recommendation, painting the ceiling is always my answer.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Painting ceiling paint down the wall*

I saw a paint job being done once where the ceiling paint came down the wall about 2 to 4 inches all the way around. I asked the painter (I believe he was from eastern Europe somewhere) and he said that it was a common practice to do this back home where he came from. 

I just did a Google search for exactly what is in the title above this comment and saw examples of this and other permutations of non-traditional ceiling/wall painting.

By the way, I really liked the effect of painting down the wall, but my friend, who is a good amateur decorator, couldn't stand it.

futtyos


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## Ric (Oct 26, 2011)

PACman said:


> That defies all physical logic. But it may be a trick of the eye so, who knows?


No...it really doesn't defy all physical logic, but there may be some eye-trickery going on...

To strike the line, I hold a sharp pencil flat against the ceiling with the point resting on the wall - I then walk around the room, holding the pencil in place, striking the line. The ceiling is flat and level, and therefore, strikes a perfectly straight line, parallel with the plane of the ceiling, only 1/8 of an inch below the surface (I will admit that sometimes the "wavy" line of where ceiling and wall meet, will telegraph through on this strike line, but that is easily remedied when cutting in...I am by no means a professional painter, but I can actually strike the line, and cut-in a room faster (and with a better looking result) than with cutting against the corner where wall & ceiling meet. I use this same technique when painting an accent wall, striking the line on the wall to be accented. For both ceilings, and walls, using a quality brush and a steady hand, produces razor sharp, straight lines...

Someone mentioned yesterday that this may be a regional thing, and that maybe so, but I've watched painters use this same technique using a 5-way tool to strike the cut-in line...this technique drops the line to about 1/4 inch from the ceiling, and in my opinion only, left too much of a "lip" showing - but to each...his own


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## AngieM (Apr 13, 2016)

Ric said:


> I'm with you, MM - I have always cut my ceilings that way. I strike a pencil line about 1/8 of an inch down from the ceiling and trim my wall paint against the pencil line. Absolutely straight & perfectly level every time (and as you mentioned, you don't see the wavy drywall lines when cutting into where the ceiling and walls meet) - and I find it easier, & faster, to cut against the pencil line than to cut a straight line against the rounded corners where ceiling and wall meet. I think it adds a very professional looking finishing touch to the room (never heard of running the wall paint up on the ceiling, though - that'd be really tough to trim against...)


I was taught to run a putty knife into and along the corner where the texture meets the walls, knocking off the ridges which creates a shallow trench that exactly follows the line of the ceiling. 

I had a HO ask me to make a faux ceiling line an 8th of inch down on the wall. I've never seen that technique look good. Like RH said, your eye goes right there, stands out like a sore thumb. Or maybe that's just us painters who unconsciously evaluate cut lines everywhere we go.


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## Ric (Oct 26, 2011)

AngieM said:


> I was taught to run a putty knife into and along the corner where the texture meets the walls, knocking off the ridges which creates a shallow trench that exactly follows the line of the ceiling.
> 
> I had a HO ask me to make a faux ceiling line an 8th of inch down on the wall. I've never seen that technique look good. Like RH said, your eye goes right there, stands out like a sore thumb. Or maybe that's just us painters who unconsciously evaluate cut lines everywhere we go.


Hi Angie

I'm speaking of flat ceilings, not textured. I agree with the putty knife routine on textured ceilings (although, I prefer to use a 5 way), but not on flat.. to each his own, I guess. and while I'd never intentionally disparage someone else's work, or opinions It's too bad that you've never seen this technique look good, 'cuz personally I've never seen a cut-in look better, sharper or more professional -and surprisingly, the ceiling cut-in is usually one of the first thing I notice when I walk into a room as well... (not as a professional painter, per se - but more as one who is pretty kinda familiar with product, applications, and techniques).


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Ric said:


> No...it really doesn't defy all physical logic, but there may be some eye-trickery going on...
> 
> To strike the line, I hold a sharp pencil flat against the ceiling with the point resting on the wall - I then walk around the room, holding the pencil in place, striking the line. The ceiling is flat and level, and therefore, strikes a perfectly straight line, parallel with the plane of the ceiling, only 1/8 of an inch below the surface (I will admit that sometimes the "wavy" line of where ceiling and wall meet, will telegraph through on this strike line, but that is easily remedied when cutting in...I am by no means a professional painter, but I can actually strike the line, and cut-in a room faster (and with a better looking result) than with cutting against the corner where wall & ceiling meet. I use this same technique when painting an accent wall, striking the line on the wall to be accented. For both ceilings, and walls, using a quality brush and a steady hand, produces razor sharp, straight lines...
> 
> Someone mentioned yesterday that this may be a regional thing, and that maybe so, but I've watched painters use this same technique using a 5-way tool to strike the cut-in line...this technique drops the line to about 1/4 inch from the ceiling, and in my opinion only, left too much of a "lip" showing - but to each...his own


Yes it does violate physical logic of two parallel lines. It's the eye's perception that deviates. As usual.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

A few years back I was doing a res paint where the original sprayed paint job (walls and ceilings all one color) was still in existence. Did the ceilings in an off white, the walls a tan. HO wanted one wall to be a darker accent color. Problem arose because the room had vaulted ceilings and where the accent wall to be and the ceiling met the natural cut line took several dramatic dips and rises along the 20' length of wall. The HO had never noticed the poor sheetrock job before but once it was pointed out to him it drove him crazy (heh-heh-heh). And in this case the guy was already 85% nuts to begin with so...


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

RH said:


> A few years back I was doing a res paint where the original sprayed paint job (walls and ceilings all one color) was still in existence. Did the ceilings in an off white, the walls a tan. HO wanted one wall to be a darker accent color. Problem arose because the room had vaulted ceilings and where the accent wall to be and the ceiling met the natural cut line took several dramatic dips and rises along the 20' length of wall. The HO had never noticed the poor sheetrock job before but once it was pointed out to him it drove him crazy (heh-heh-heh). And in this case the guy was already 85% nuts to begin with so...


Thank god for wallpaper border huh?


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## Betheweb (Jul 26, 2016)

Fascinating thread. I like that pencil trick. 

I've always felt that a little wall paint on the ceiling is less noticeable because you have to be standing by the wall and looking straight up to even see it. A white strip on the wall will be visible from anywhere in the room. 

I also have seen the 2" of ceiling paint at the top of the wall that futtyos mentioned. It was a beautiful paint job. I felt bad painting over it.


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## MurphysPaint (Nov 23, 2015)

Former homeowner's handy work...


Murph


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## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

MurphysPaint said:


> Former homeowner's handy work...
> 
> 
> Murph


Although I suppose it's all just a matter of aesthetic taste, that looks ridiculous.


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## MurphysPaint (Nov 23, 2015)

Joe67 said:


> Although I suppose it's all just a matter of aesthetic taste, that looks ridiculous.




I always say it's a free country and you are entitled to be wrong! Although in this case it was clearly an attempt at covering awful cutins... It was still all over the popcorn. 


Murph


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Let's all hope that^^^ never becomes a trend.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

RH said:


> Let's all hope that^^^ never becomes a trend.


I would think that would be WAY harder than just doing it right:whistling2:


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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

hearing about ceiling paint coming down onto the wall makes he cringe. when i cut technically i hit the ceiling about a millimeter so my line is created by touch and not sight. id rather wall color tucked a little high than a little low. draws less attention imo


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## salmangeri (Sep 13, 2008)

Some contractors run a 5 in 1 where the ceiling meets the wall. It creats a fine line which is ez to follow.....I think a lot depends on the drywall work as well in cutting in...


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## Norfolkpainter (Sep 17, 2016)

I'm in Ontario as well and I've seen painters go up on the ceiling about an 1/8". I don 't like the look at all, I stay right at the corner and have happy customers. On old wavy corners or rooms with popcorn ceilings, I'll stay down a bit to give the illusion of straight corners. Your biggest friend will be a good brush, stay away from cheap brushes. I prefer Purdy XL Glide 2 1/2"


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