# Kitchen Cabinets



## Rogblack

Hi everyone.

I have a kitchen cabinet project coming up and I haven't done one before.

This is my plan of attack any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. 

1) wash cabinets
2) Light sand
3) apply a coat of sw extreme bonding primer.
4) apply two coats of sw emerald enamel.

A light sand between all coats. I will be brushing and rolling them.

Does this sound like a good plan of attack? thanks in advance.


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## RH

Have they been painted before or are they natural? If natural, what type of wood? 

If natural, you may get some bleed through occurring. I use the SW exterior oil based primer to avoid that possibility. It isn’t that hard to work with (except for cleanup typical with oil based products) but a stronger initial odor could be a problem in some situations. 

When not spraying, I use a quarter inch micro fiber roller to apply it with. Some stipple is apparent but it sands out nicely.

I haven’t used the Emerald enamel so can’t speak to that as a good top coat product. I have had great results rolling and brushing Proclassic with some XIM extender added. Okay, let the stone throwing commence.


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## RH

Technogod said:


> Are you a home owner or a professional ?


He’s posted before about just starting out as a professional painter.


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## Wildbill7145

Technogod said:


> Are you a home owner or a professional ?


Previously asked questions about doing estimates, so I'm assuming they're in the biz.

Rog, maybe consider adding a thread to the introductions subforum? Tell us a little about yourself. If you're so inclined of course.


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## Repaint Florida

Rogblack said:


> Hi everyone.
> 
> I have a kitchen cabinet project coming up and I haven't done one before.
> 
> This is my plan of attack any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> 1) wash cabinets
> 2) Light sand
> 3) apply a coat of sw extreme bonding primer.
> 4) apply two coats of sw emerald enamel.
> 
> A light sand between all coats. I will be brushing and rolling them.
> 
> Does this sound like a good plan of attack? thanks in advance.


old post here but worth reading ....


http://www.painttalk.com/f2/kitchen-cabinet-painting-orlando-fl-34377/


.


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## Wildbill7145

Repaint Florida said:


> old post here but worth reading ....
> 
> 
> http://www.painttalk.com/f2/kitchen-cabinet-painting-orlando-fl-34377/
> 
> 
> .


That really is a great thread. All you have to do is look at the almost page long list of thanks you got for that one to see how much it was appreciated.


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## 007 Dave

The time I used extreme boding primer from SW was the only time I had issues with the cabinets chipping and scratching. You can take this any way you want to but if I was you I would use an oil base primer if you can Because Dealing with oil base primer is a lot easier than dealing with a disgruntled home owner.


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## Rogblack

I am a professional Technogod.


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## Rogblack

RH said:


> Have they been painted before or are they natural? If natural, what type of wood?
> 
> If natural, you may get some bleed through occurring. I use the SW exterior oil based primer to avoid that possibility. It isn’t that hard to work with (except for cleanup typical with oil based products) but a stronger initial odor could be a problem in some situations.
> 
> When not spraying, I use a quarter inch micro fiber roller to apply it with. Some stipple is apparent but it sands out nicely.
> 
> I haven’t used the Emerald enamel so can’t speak to that as a good top coat product. I have had great results rolling and brushing Proclassic with some XIM extender added. Okay, let the stone throwing commence.


They are oak and have been previously coated with a clear finish.


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## RH

Rogblack said:


> They are oak and have been previously coated with a clear finish.


I’ve found that having a clear coat is no assurance that some bleed through will not occur, especially since you will be sanding it. And oak can be a wood that is susceptible to it.


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## Gymschu

Just wanted to throw this in there: There was a big debate over on DIYChatroom about whether to caulk or not where the "floating panels" intersect with the rails of the doors. I don't because I've had failures with the caulk because of the movement of the wood, especially oak. Others over there say they always caulk. What say the rest of you? I would agree that the doors would LOOK better with the caulking, but, if it fails prematurely, the callbacks won't be any fun.......


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## Rbriggs82

Gymschu said:


> Just wanted to throw this in there: There was a big debate over on DIYChatroom about whether to caulk or not where the "floating panels" intersect with the rails of the doors. I don't because I've had failures with the caulk because of the movement of the wood, especially oak. Others over there say they always caulk. What say the rest of you? I would agree that the doors would LOOK better with the caulking, but, if it fails prematurely, the callbacks won't be any fun.......


I'm in the no caulk camp for the same reasons you stated. 

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## slinger58

I've always caulked the floating panels and never had a call-back. 

For those who don't caulk, has there ever been an issue of seeing a strip of unpainted wood (or MDF) if the panel shrinks? 

Also depends on the quality of the doors. I remember some cab doors where the panel was cut too short and I _had_ to caulk them in place so there wouldn't be a gap at the top where panel met the stile.


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## cocomonkeynuts

slinger58 said:


> I've always caulked the floating panels and never had a call-back.
> 
> For those who don't caulk, has there ever been an issue of seeing a strip of unpainted wood (or MDF) if the panel shrinks?
> 
> Also depends on the quality of the doors. I remember some cab doors where the panel was cut too short and I _had_ to caulk them in place so there wouldn't be a gap at the top where panel met the stile.


What sort of caulking do you use? For paintable caulk I carry big stretch and Alex Plus. Always looking to expand my inventory...


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## Woodco

Im in the always caulk camp too. I've used several kinds of caulk. No preference. Not a fan of Alex plus though.


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## slinger58

cocomonkeynuts said:


> What sort of caulking do you use? For paintable caulk I carry big stretch and Alex Plus. Always looking to expand my inventory...


I use a brand from my regional supplier, which is Farrell-Calhoun. The caulk is branded as "TuffBoy". It's a siliconized acrylic and I've never had any issues with it.


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## Jmayspaint

Gymschu said:


> Just wanted to throw this in there: There was a big debate over on DIYChatroom about whether to caulk or not where the "floating panels" intersect with the rails of the doors. I don't because I've had failures with the caulk because of the movement of the wood, especially oak. Others over there say they always caulk. What say the rest of you? I would agree that the doors would LOOK better with the caulking, but, if it fails prematurely, the callbacks won't be any fun.......




I don’t caulk them unless I absolutely have to for ascetic reasons such as Slinger mentioned. I have had a call back on cracking around them on a set that I felt it was necessary for them to look right, and seen several other sets with that specific problem existing. 

I’m sure it depends a lot on the construction of the door, and the quality of the caulk, as well as how extreme the seasonal temperature fluctuations are in your area. It’s probably fine in many cases. Here, seasonal shrinkage can be significant. I hesitate to trust any caulk in that situation. 




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## Lazerlnes

Definitely want to use a siliconized caulk if you do the doors. I usually use the clear because it seams to remain more flexible then the white.as far as primer I use Coverstain usually. Never had bleed through or adhesion issues and a whole lot cheaper then anything you will get from SW.


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## Lazerlnes

Also if you do caulk the doors make sure to use your 5n1 with a rag around it to scrape the caulking out of the corners clean.the fingers alone leave Gooped up corners which look bleh.


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## RH

I also caulk the panels. Those uneven gaps just draw my eye to them without fail. I use Tower Tech II and like Slinger, have never had an issue.


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## RH

Lazerlnes said:


> Also if you do caulk the doors make sure to use your 5n1 with a rag around it to scrape the caulking out of the corners clean.the fingers alone leave Gooped up corners which look bleh.


I agree about using your fingers. I find that my elbow or knee results in a nice, crisp caulk line.


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## Lazerlnes

I agree about using your fingers. I find that my elbow or knee results in a nice, crisp caulk line.[/QUOTE] lololol


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## Woodco

I dont use wet rags with caulking. It deteriorates the caulk. I hold a damp sponge that I pretty much just use to lubricate my fingertips. Its a little harder to get the excess caulk out of the cracks, but I firmly believe its a better caulking job overall. I picked that up from an old buddy of mine that was born into painting. He could perfectly caulk an entire new house trim job with no water, sponge or wet rag. I picked up a bad habit from him of wiping all the excess caulk right back on the caulking tube (and gun) but it makes things go quicker, better, and efficiently that way.


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## ridesarize

I don't know about some of those diyers and diyer helpers over there at DIYchatroom. That one guy, xtc painter or something... real suspicious. I'm not sure he can see well cause he said he never had a problem caulking his panels... 

Probrobly just some paint employee who is never held accountable for his work. His boss and clients are probably tired of his lack of detail, and are about to fire him, if he even has a job still.

:wink:


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## ridesarize

See I don't caulk them _every time. _I'll have to post this over there and show that xc guy.


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## chrisn

slinger58 said:


> I've always caulked the floating panels and never had a call-back.
> 
> For those who don't caulk, has there ever been an issue of seeing a strip of unpainted wood (or MDF) if the panel shrinks?
> 
> Also depends on the quality of the doors. I remember some cab doors where the panel was cut too short and I _had_ to caulk them in place so there wouldn't be a gap at the top where panel met the stile.


Only in the winter time when the heat is on. In the spring it goes back to normal. At least in my house this is what happens, Yes, it looks bad(ask the wife) but to caulk it and have it all split out looks worse, IMO.


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## Lazerlnes

Woodco said:


> I dont use wet rags with caulking. It deteriorates the caulk. I hold a damp sponge that I pretty much just use to lubricate my fingertips. Its a little harder to get the excess caulk out of the cracks, but I firmly believe its a better caulking job overall. I picked that up from an old buddy of mine that was born into painting. He could perfectly caulk an entire new house trim job with no water, sponge or wet rag. I picked up a bad habit from him of wiping all the excess caulk right back on the caulking tube (and gun) but it makes things go quicker, better, and efficiently that way.


 I think your right on the money. I only use the rag to keep my fingers and gun clean and to protect against my 5n1 when wiping out corners clean


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## chrisn

Woodco said:


> I dont use wet rags with caulking. It deteriorates the caulk. I hold a damp sponge that I pretty much just use to lubricate my fingertips. Its a little harder to get the excess caulk out of the cracks, but I firmly believe its a better caulking job overall. I picked that up from an old buddy of mine that was born into painting. He could perfectly caulk an entire new house trim job with no water, sponge or wet rag. I picked up a bad habit from him of wiping all the excess caulk right back on the caulking tube (and gun) but it makes things go quicker, better, and efficiently that way.


 
please explain


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## Woodco

chrisn said:


> please explain


I just think it thins it down. I try to expose the wet caulk to as little water as possible. I hold a wet sponge in my hand, and wipe my fingertips on it to lube them up, them smooth out the bead with my fingertips, and only wipe the caulk with the sponge itself when needed. I feel it keeps the integrity of the caulk bead better.

Thats just my preference. I only wipe with a rag if Im caulking to a surface that wont be painted, like a window, or stained trim. even then, I often use the tape/caulk/paint method.

My method is actually very efficient, because you dont need to fool around with a rag. Of course, I get a huge build up of caulk on my gun, cuz I wipe any excess on the actual caulking tube itself instead of a rag, but I absolutely think its worth it with how much faster a caulking job goes this way.


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## Snackbar

Hey Guys, Im new here but wanted to give my opinion on the top coat. I would not use the emerald. I think it will stay too soft and give you problems. My two go to acrylic paints for cabinets are Insl-x cabinet coat and Coronado's Rust Scat. Both dry really hard. As for a primer I use Shellac, but I spray. Shellac does not brush well.


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## Woodco

Snackbar said:


> Hey Guys, Im new here but wanted to give my opinion on the top coat. I would not use the emerald. I think it will stay too soft and give you problems. My two go to acrylic paints for cabinets are Insl-x cabinet coat and Coronado's Rust Scat. Both dry really hard. As for a primer I use Shellac, but I spray. Shellac does not brush well.


Cabinet coat is SO CLOSE to being perfect, except the slightest thing gives it a mar effect. I dont use it for that reason alone. Its not an acrylic, BTW, its a waterborne Urethane, like the Emerald. I did a test of emerald urethane on a piece of trim, and its rock hard. I haven't used it on a job though, cuz I hate SW.


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## ridesarize

Woodco said:


> Cabinet coat is SO CLOSE to being perfect, except the slightest thing gives it a mar effect. I dont use it for that reason alone. *Its not an acrylic, BTW, its a waterborne Urethane, like the Emerald. *I did a test of emerald urethane on a piece of trim, and its rock hard. I haven't used it on a job though, cuz I hate SW.


They say on the product website "Urethane Reinforced Acrylic" and also Urethane Acrylic formula.
I love the product..It touches up, wonderfully btw 

Started my new job working with a cabinet company today. We are remodeling and painting a condo, but I asked the carpenter about their cabinets and told him about our recent caulking discussions. He said they build their doors with no panel movement and they caulk them HEH HEH. Too awesome!!:biggrin::vs_laugh:


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## chrisn

Woodco said:


> I just think it thins it down. I try to expose the wet caulk to as little water as possible. I hold a wet sponge in my hand, and wipe my fingertips on it to lube them up, them smooth out the bead with my fingertips, and only wipe the caulk with the sponge itself when needed. I feel it keeps the integrity of the caulk bead better.
> 
> Thats just my preference. I only wipe with a rag if Im caulking to a surface that wont be painted, like a window, or stained trim. even then, I often use the tape/caulk/paint method.
> 
> My method is actually very efficient, because you dont need to fool around with a rag. Of course, I get a huge build up of caulk on my gun, cuz I wipe any excess on the actual caulking tube itself instead of a rag, but I absolutely think its worth it with how much faster a caulking job goes this way.


Not arguing with you but I would think that after drying all would be well. I cannot see some water interfering with the integrity of the caulk, but I have been wrong a couple times in my life.


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## chrisn

In retrospect, maybe that IS argumentitive:vs_laugh:


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## Jmayspaint

Woodco said:


> I just think it thins it down. I try to expose the wet caulk to as little water as possible. I hold a wet sponge in my hand, and wipe my fingertips on it to lube them up, them smooth out the bead with my fingertips, and only wipe the caulk with the sponge itself when needed. I feel it keeps the integrity of the caulk bead better.
> 
> .....




I agree with the premise here. It’s kinda like thinning paint and it can hasten failure of the bead. I tell people not to wipe the bead to death. 




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## RH

chrisn said:


> Not arguing with you but I would think that after drying all would be well. I cannot see some water interfering with the integrity of the caulk, but I have been wrong a couple times in my life.


I was wrong once; it was when I thought I was wrong but it turned out I wasn’t.


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## RH

When dealing with caulk, there’s a big difference between a wet rag and a damp one.


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## Woodco

I aint saying Im right or wrong, its just the system I stick with. Nothing against painters who use wet/damp rags, I just choose a different method thats worked better for me.


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## lilpaintchic

RH said:


> I was wrong once; it was when I thought I was wrong but it turned out I wasn’t.


LOLOLOL 

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## Snackbar

Woodco said:


> Cabinet coat is SO CLOSE to being perfect, except the slightest thing gives it a mar effect. I dont use it for that reason alone. Its not an acrylic, BTW, its a waterborne Urethane, like the Emerald. I did a test of emerald urethane on a piece of trim, and its rock hard. I haven't used it on a job though, cuz I hate SW.



I did not realize the Emerald was a Urethane. Thats good to know. I will give it a try sometime.


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## Brushman4

RH said:


> I agree about using your fingers. I find that my elbow or knee results in a nice, crisp caulk line.


I prefer my big toe, as we all know it is the Captain of the toes! Unless there is a Coup de toe.


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## Woodco

Snackbar said:


> I did not realize the Emerald was a Urethane. Thats good to know. I will give it a try sometime.


Theres a recent thread about it on here. Its not being compared directly with cabinet coat though, unfortunately.http://www.painttalk.com/f2/new-emerald-urethane-enamel-74601/

Note: Im not saying ALL Emerald is, but it is a product in the emerald line.


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