# Benjamin Moore Sure Seal



## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Heya,

Benjamin Moore recently released a new primer- Sure Seal- which I think is meant to be a little more budget conscious than Fresh Start is. I'm curious if any of you guys have used it yet (I'm trying to decide whether to stock it).

If anyone's ever in the North Iowa area, I'd love to give you a free gallon to try out and let me know how it is. I only like carrying stuff I'm comfortable recommending and can rely on.


----------



## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

I have used it and for the under $20 a gallon it cost us I was impressed. We will use it more coming up. It covered good, brushed and rolled nice. I honestly was expecting it to be complete garbage.


----------



## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Awesome, glad to hear it and I really appreciate the feedback. You didn't happen to sand it, did you? That's the one complaint I get a lot about the Fresh Start.


----------



## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

We did give a light sanding, we used it on walls and trim and it sanded fine. Any primer will sand off if to much pressure is applied.


----------



## HelpfulPainter (Jan 31, 2015)

cdpainting said:


> I have used it and for the under $20 a gallon it cost us I was impressed. We will use it more coming up. It covered good, brushed and rolled nice. I honestly was expecting it to be complete garbage.


that's pretty good... under $20 for a primer that was decent.... Im going to give it a try... Never heard of it until now.


----------



## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

HelpfulPainter said:


> that's pretty good... under $20 for a primer that was decent.... Im going to give it a try... Never heard of it until now.


It's brand spankin' new and hasn't been marketed yet, so that's not too surprising  Let us know how you like it!


----------



## PNW Painter (Sep 5, 2013)

Does anybody have any updates or additional feedback about Sure Seal since it was just released when this thread was started?

I'm thinking about using Sure Seal for an upcoming project. Thanks!


----------



## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

PNW Painter said:


> Does anybody have any updates or additional feedback about Sure Seal since it was just released when this thread was started?
> 
> I'm thinking about using Sure Seal for an upcoming project. Thanks!


I've started selling it, with moderate success. I haven't gotten any "this is terrible," nor have I got any, "this is awful." Seems to be doing the job of an economy priced primer quite well. I feel quite certain that it doesn't sand much nicer than the Fresh Start, but otherwise seems to be just fine.


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

I just had to check the op date of this thread. BM primer for under $20.00 a gallon? Is it 1964 again? lol!


----------



## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Proalliance coatings said:


> I just had to check the op date of this thread. BM primer for under $20.00 a gallon? Is it 1964 again? lol!


Brand spankin' new


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Woodford said:


> Brand spankin' new


And under $20 a gallon? WTH?


----------



## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Proalliance coatings said:


> And under $20 a gallon? WTH?


Why, getting scared? :thumbup:


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Woodford said:


> Why, getting scared? :thumbup:


Not really. Anyone can put water in a primer. lol.
Besides it's probably just a Coronado SuperKote 3000 re-label.


----------



## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Proalliance coatings said:


> Not really. Anyone can put water in a primer. lol.
> Besides it's probably just a Coronado SuperKote 3000 re-label.


Dunno, it's pretty good stuff.


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Woodford said:


> Dunno, it's pretty good stuff.


Just kidding. I'm sure it's one of the better primers around for $20.00!


----------



## Criard (Nov 23, 2013)

http://www.painttalk.com/f6/paint-bubbling-again-37329/

This is the only thing I've heard/read about so far about Sure Seal.
Our rep is trying to get us to carry it, but we're sticking with pushing Smart Prime on our customers instead for now. Waiting to hear more feedback on this Sure Seal before we make an investment in it for the store.


----------



## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

I used a few gallons of it on some blueboard and I liked it. Why spend more than $20 for blueboard. I still think that I would go with fresh start for raw wood.


----------



## NACE (May 16, 2008)

So far feedback is that 027 is similar to the old Fresh Start 023 with similar hide but sands to a finer powder. I find that accurate in my limited trials. I like it. Did have a few gallons come back with skins which I attribute to the colder winter and pallets sitting in colder staging areas after coming off the filling line warm. So far no reports of skins. Only praise for the price point, spread rate, sealing and sanding capabilities with less hide then 046.


----------



## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Criard said:


> http://www.painttalk.com/f6/paint-bubbling-again-37329/
> 
> This is the only thing I've heard/read about so far about Sure Seal.
> Our rep is trying to get us to carry it, but we're sticking with pushing Smart Prime on our customers instead for now. Waiting to hear more feedback on this Sure Seal before we make an investment in it for the store.


I saw that thread, and I'm somewhat inclined to think it might have been a different issue. Who knows, though!

So far I've had nothing but good luck with it and not a single complaint, as well as a lot of praise for the quality for the price (aka value). Had several homeowners take it that normally wouldn't pay for Fresh Start (never hear anything back from them, of course, since they don't know the difference) and a couple of my contractors take it that liked it.

Might replace 1-2-3 and Bullseye as my go-to 'price-conscious' primers. Curious whether it sands as nicely as Bullseye, though- haven't tried it yet.

Edit: And no skins for me so far.


----------



## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

We used a few gallons. Wasn't impressed with the adhesion. But ot is a 20 buck primmer. I'd use it for drywall patches, thats about it.


----------



## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Primers are job specific, IMO. There are bonding primers, stain-blocking primers, drywall primers, primers that sand well on new wood, fast dry primers, slow dry primers, etc. This Sure-Seal may be a great general purpose primer (whatever that is), but we all know it doesn't do all things well.


----------



## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

slinger58 said:


> Primers are job specific, IMO. There are bonding primers, stain-blocking primers, drywall primers, primers that sand well on new wood, fast dry primers, slow dry primers, etc. This Sure-Seal may be a great general purpose primer (whatever that is), but we all know it doesn't do all things well.


Clearly, that's why I have over a dozen kinds of primer on my shelves


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Woodford said:


> Clearly, that's why I have over a dozen kinds of primer on my shelves


But why? Don't you have a paint and primer and stain sealer all in one like Behrs and Valspar do? What kind of crap paint are you selling?! I bet your deck stain doesn't even bridge 3/4" gaps either does it?


----------



## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Proalliance coatings said:


> But why? Don't you have a paint and primer and stain sealer all in one like Behrs and Valspar do? What kind of crap paint are you selling?! I bet your deck stain doesn't even bridge 3/4" gaps either does it?


I have Cabot right now, so it can bridge a 3" gap, primes itself, seals in tannins, and lasts for 20 years maintenance free.


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Woodford said:


> I have Cabot right now, so it can bridge a 3" gap, primes itself, seals in tannins, and lasts for 20 years maintenance free.


WOW! bet you sell tons of it.


----------



## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Proalliance coatings said:


> WOW! bet you sell tons of it.


Hoping to get rid of it this week.


----------



## ElTacoPaco (Dec 11, 2015)

Criard said:


> http://www.painttalk.com/f6/paint-bubbling-again-37329/
> 
> This is the only thing I've heard/read about so far about Sure Seal.
> Our rep is trying to get us to carry it, but we're sticking with pushing Smart Prime on our customers instead for now. Waiting to hear more feedback on this Sure Seal before we make an investment in it for the store.


Never heard of smart prime 
Who sells it to you?


----------



## ElTacoPaco (Dec 11, 2015)

slinger58 said:


> Primers are job specific, IMO. There are bonding primers, stain-blocking primers, drywall primers, primers that sand well on new wood, fast dry primers, slow dry primers, etc. This Sure-Seal may be a great general purpose primer (whatever that is), but we all know it doesn't do all things well.


What primers so you recommend for those specific jobs you specified? Looking for some recommendations


----------



## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

ElTacoPaco said:


> Never heard of smart prime
> Who sells it to you?



Smart Prime is Zinsser Plus but is an in-store label. Great stuff.


----------



## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

ElTacoPaco said:


> What primers so you recommend for those specific jobs you specified? Looking for some recommendations


I'll take a quick stab at it; since you're new I'll let you know up front I'm a primarily Benjamin Moore dealer so take my answer for what you will. That being said, I hope I've shown in my time here that I'm looking to help people, not push my brand 

Bonding primer: Depending on the substrate, Stix seems to be a fantastic primer for this. But like many things, it requires a look at the specific situation- if going over wallpaper paste, for instance, Guardz is what most painters will go to.

Stain-blocking primer: For interior I'm quite partial to BIN, which is a shellac based primer. It's one of the best for general stain blocking. For exterior use when you're priming more than a small area and worried about tannin bleed, a decent oil-based tannin blocking primer is good. 094 (Exterior Wood Primer from BM) is my go-to for this, though I'm not convinced it's the best thing on the market for it yet. 

Drywall Primer: You'll get a lot of answers from a lot of people on this one ranging from no primer all the way up to premium primers like the 046 (High Build Fresh Start from BM). The two things I'd advise against would be not priming, and PVA primers which are largely garbage. Something like the Zinsser 1-2-3 or Sure Seal from BM is perfectly suited to this kind of task. If you're looking for a perfect level 5 finish, then you may want to look into a higher build primer which can help a bit with this.

Wood Primers: It's odd and just may be my market, but people really like the Zinsser Bullseye here for this. It supposedly sands nicely, and it's also hella cheap. I've heard decent things about Sure Seal as well. Fresh Start can give you a nice finish but doesn't sand well comparatively. In my experience, this one more than any other you'll just have to get a feel for what you like.

As far as fast/slow dry primers that's going to be largely irrelevant to you in most cases probably. Any latex primer will dry rapidly enough to not be worth mentioning unless you're trying a commercial or industrial application.

Best of luck, hope this helps.


----------



## mv8710 (Jul 28, 2010)

cdpainting said:


> I have used it and for the under $20 a gallon it cost us I was impressed. We will use it more coming up. It covered good, brushed and rolled nice. I honestly was expecting it to be complete garbage.


I thought in USA that everything was top quality, and did what it said on the label because otherwise you would get sued.
Isn't Benjamin Moore one of the top paint companies in USA?


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

mv8710 said:


> I thought in USA that everything was top quality, and did what it said on the label because otherwise you would get sued.
> Isn't Benjamin Moore one of the top paint companies in USA?


We wish.


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

mv8710 said:


> I thought in USA that everything was top quality, and did what it said on the label because otherwise you would get sued.
> Isn't Benjamin Moore one of the top paint companies in USA?


For people who care about such things it is. Most of the time the price is the biggest thing painters concern themselves with. That's why some of them badmouth Ben Moore, because it's expensive and people don't want to pay for it.

People in the states will buy a us$100,000.00 Mercedes and put the cheapest tires that will fit on it when they need replaced. Most of the high end new build homes are painted with us$20.00 a gallon paint.

I bought a vintage Porsche 10 years ago that had tires so cheap on it all they had on them was the size and "made in Poland".


----------



## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

mv8710 said:


> I thought in USA that everything was top quality, and did what it said on the label because otherwise you would get sued.
> Isn't Benjamin Moore one of the top paint companies in USA?


I bet half the stuff in the USA is made in China. So no not every thing is top quality. 

Like PacMan said most people worry about the price and not so much the quality of paint. 

I know a bunch of other painters around here that feel the same as me with this garbage. Oops, I shouldn't of called it garbage, BM reps will get mad. Oh well.


----------



## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

mv8710 said:


> Isn't Benjamin Moore one of the top paint companies in USA?


Depending on your definition of "top," yes. But even the best companies have some products that aren't amazing, and even the worst usually have something that's usable in certain situations. It's all about knowing the right product for the job moreso than just blindly buying one brand's products for everything. Even as a BM store I sometimes sell other products or even tell people to go somewhere else if I know there's a better product. I like to think paint stores are more in the service industry than the retail industry.


----------



## Toolnut (Nov 23, 2012)

cdpainting said:


> I bet half the stuff in the USA is made in China. So no not every thing is top quality.
> 
> Like PacMan said most people worry about the price and not so much the quality of paint.
> 
> I know a bunch of other painters around here that feel the same as me with this garbage. Oops, I shouldn't of called it garbage, BM reps will get mad. Oh well.


I think you will find the percentage is a LOT higher than that.


----------



## ElTacoPaco (Dec 11, 2015)

DrakeB said:


> Depending on your definition of "top," yes. But even the best companies have some products that aren't amazing, and even the worst usually have something that's usable in certain situations. It's all about knowing the right product for the job moreso than just blindly buying one brand's products for everything. Even as a BM store I sometimes sell other products or even tell people to go somewhere else if I know there's a better product. I like to think paint stores are more in the service industry than the retail industry.


What products to you recommeded to be bought elsewhere?


----------



## ElTacoPaco (Dec 11, 2015)

Damon T said:


> Smart Prime is Zinsser Plus but is an in-store label. Great stuff.


Who do you buy that from? If you go through Rust-Oleum direct I think that is the best orice around.


----------



## Criard (Nov 23, 2013)

ElTacoPaco said:


> Who do you buy that from? If you go through Rust-Oleum direct I think that is the best orice around.


http://www.rustoleum.com/en/product-catalog/consumer-brands/zinsser/primer-sealers/smart-prime

We buy it directly from Rustoleum Corp. and sell it for about $27/gal I believe.


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Criard said:


> http://www.rustoleum.com/en/product-catalog/consumer-brands/zinsser/primer-sealers/smart-prime
> 
> We buy it directly from Rustoleum Corp. and sell it for about $27/gal I believe.


Honest to god, this is another product that I had to send to an auction to sell at the BM dealer I worked at. We sold 1 gallon that was in a Do-It-Best sale flyer and we had to sell the rest at auction for something like $15 buck for the other three. I don't know what the dealio was but it just didn't sell.


----------

