# Garage Floor



## Sully (May 25, 2011)

Gentlemen... and ladies. It's been a while. This summer has been full of ups and down for me. I have some questions about a garage floor.

Here's the low down. I have a customer who I did some power washing for earlier in the year. He called me back with some small painting jobs he needed done as well as a solution for his garage floor. I mentioned an epoxy coating and he said he was considering it. Once I took a look I wasn't so sure what to do. The floor has already been painted and has a smooth surface profile. The paint has flaked away in the high traffic tire areas. My rep explained my prep options for grinding or etching. Etching sounds like a mess. I'd rather not just paint it. I think that's just a band aid. Any suggestions.


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## painter213 (Nov 5, 2008)

Total removal of the existing coating first. Then prep per CSP-3. Then apply your coating per directions.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

As stated, for a non "band aid" fix, you need to remove the previous coating. Now we're talking big bucks. Probably more than most homeowners plan to, or would like to spend. At least that's what I've found. That being said you can offer a good band aid fix. Clean and degrease, remove any flaking areas, coat with WB epoxy. You can also prime the bare spots with the paint itself.


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

NCPaint1 said:


> As stated, for a non "band aid" fix, you need to remove the previous coating. Now we're talking big bucks. Probably more than most homeowners plan to, or would like to spend. At least that's what I've found. That being said you can offer a good band aid fix. Clean and degrease, remove any flaking areas, coat with WB epoxy. You can also prime the bare spots with the paint itself.


 NC, do you believe the Waterborne Epoxy will adhere well enough to an existing old alkyd porch & floor enamel-which is what we find most commonly in these parts? Most times it is only failing in the tire lanes.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

CliffK said:


> NC, do you believe the Waterborne Epoxy will adhere well enough to an existing old alkyd porch & floor enamel-which is what we find most commonly in these parts? Most times it is only failing in the tire lanes.


It should stick just fine. I always say, whatever hasn't come off yet...probably won't. So as long as its not a moisture issue, and just tire pick up, a WB epoxy would be a cost effective fix.


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## Andyman (Feb 21, 2009)

If it didn't adhere the first time then why would it the second time without proper prep?


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

Etching is fairly easy. Apply solution, scrub with stiff broom, wash off. BM's 1142 is decent, though you have to make sure the floor is good and clean (KP-83 works and doubles as a neutralizer).


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Andyman said:


> If it didn't adhere the first time then why would it the second time without proper prep?


I don't think its a matter of adhesion. Its tire pickup. No matter what this is going to be an issue. As long as the customer knows this, and is OK with it, a band aid fix will work.

Not everyone wants to spend thousands on their garage floor. To completely strip it and redo it properly will cost a lot.


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## Sully (May 25, 2011)

I like the WB epoxy idea. It sounds like what the HO is looking for. Something a bit more durable than just paint with out the hefty price tag for all the prep. I will obviously be upfront about it just being a band aid. 

So looking through my SW coatings catalog I found ArmorSeal Floor-plex 7100 water based epoxy floor coating. For previously painted concrete floors it says to to spot prime bare spots with one coat armorseal floor-plex 7100 primer 

Anyone ever use the stuff? Think it's a good choice for what I've described?


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Sully said:


> I like the WB epoxy idea. It sounds like what the HO is looking for. Something a bit more durable than just paint with out the hefty price tag for all the prep. I will obviously be upfront about it just being a band aid.
> 
> So looking through my SW coatings catalog I found ArmorSeal Floor-plex 7100 water based epoxy floor coating. For previously painted concrete floors it says to to spot prime bare spots with one coat armorseal floor-plex 7100 primer
> 
> Anyone ever use the stuff? Think it's a good choice for what I've described?


I used it on the same type of floor you described. I haven't gotten a call back so I'm assuming it held up.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Sully said:


> So looking through my SW coatings catalog I found ArmorSeal Floor-plex 7100 water based epoxy floor coating. For previously painted concrete floors it says to to spot prime bare spots with one coat armorseal floor-plex 7100 primer
> 
> Anyone ever use the stuff? Think it's a good choice for what I've described?


Next time.... get your effing answer from the genius bar at SW and not the BM guy if you plan to use SW stuff anyways......


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## Sully (May 25, 2011)

Ben Moore pisses me off. The only reason I say that is because they refuse to give me a color fan... If I can't have a fan I'm not pushing their product. It's bullcrap MAB gives me fan after fan and all the booklets and info I ask for.. The ben moore guys just look at me and say yeah we don't have any for you we barely have them for our store... maybe it's just the store I go to but for the love of paint give the contractor a color fan we indirectly sell your paint.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Sully said:


> Ben Moore pisses me off. The only reason I say that is because they refuse to give me a color fan... If I can't have a fan I'm not pushing their product. It's bullcrap MAB gives me fan after fan and all the booklets and info I ask for.. The ben moore guys just look at me and say yeah we don't have any for you we barely have them for our store... maybe it's just the store I go to but for the love of paint give the contractor a color fan we indirectly sell your paint.


That's crazy! My bm dealer hands them out like candy. They don't have a gennex machine but they have plenty of fan decks


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Rbriggs82 said:


> That's crazy! My bm dealer hands them out like candy. They don't have a gennex machine but they have plenty of fan decks


Call BM and see if they'll give you FREE decks. They have no problem billing us dealers $20 a piece for them! I give one a year to my regulars. If you're buying a lot I can swing some more if you need. If you're some d-bag spending $8/year with me, getting a deck so you can have the colors matched elsewhere....pound sand and pony up $20.



Crap, Briggs I meant to quote sully.....I'm not redoing it so....sorry


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## Sully (May 25, 2011)

NCPaint1 said:


> Call BM and see if they'll give you FREE decks. They have no problem billing us dealers $20 a piece for them! I give one a year to my regulars. If you're buying a lot I can swing some more if you need. If you're some d-bag spending $8/year with me, getting a deck so you can have the colors matched elsewhere....pound sand and pony up $20.
> 
> 
> 
> Crap, Briggs I meant to quote sully.....I'm not redoing it so....sorry



That's really lousy of them to charge a dealer for fan decks... I really like ben moores products a lot. I think if they had more structure to the stores around here I would do business with them. Right now MAB/SW is getting me 5-10 job leads a month and they have hooked me up with decent pricing and top notch customer service. I'm too comfortable to change.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Sully said:


> That's really lousy of them to charge a dealer for fan decks... I really like ben moores products a lot. I think if they had more structure to the stores around here I would do business with them. Right now MAB/SW is getting me 5-10 job leads a month and they have hooked me up with decent pricing and top notch customer service. I'm too comfortable to change.


I know, makes us look like cheap-o's and I can't stand it. It'd be cool if they had a way for contractors to get them direct from corporate.....they actually might. I've not looked into it in a while. One more thing on my "to do" list now....


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## LINE-X (Aug 17, 2011)

Do it right the first time.

Diamond grind the floor to remove the old coating. Apply a polyaspartic polyurea instead of epoxy. A polyaspartic polyurea is superior to epoxy. Water-based epoxy is the bottom of the barrel as far as epoxy products go.


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## painter213 (Nov 5, 2008)

I have to differ. I love polyurea's but I also deal with epoxies that way out performs any Polyurea today. You can never say that epoxies are bad. It's just you only use coatings in the Polyurea family and to you all other coatings are bad. Not true. You have to use the right coating for the right job my friend.


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## LINE-X (Aug 17, 2011)

There are lots of epoxy products, bisphenol A, bisphenol F, and the many hardeners. We're talking about a garage floor. Typical garage floor epoxy product are water based or solvent based and bis-A. A polyaspartic is a step up from these products at about the same price. The polyaspartic has a higher temp tolerance (no hot tire marks), better elongation, better tear and tensile strengths, it won't fade or yellow (because it's aliphatic), and it has just as good chemical resistance.

There are better epoxies such as Novolac's but, that's expensive and overkill for a garage floor.


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## painter213 (Nov 5, 2008)

Yes Mr. Line-X I'm aware if the many epoxy types. I've been in this for over 25 years now. Probably used them all by now. I just don't get into the habit if bashing coatings on general. They are all formulated for a specific use and generally work well when surface prep is performed correctly and used for the specific use. All coatings are not created equal but they should be used as intended. Not everyone can afford the higher priced high performance coatings. I try to have an open mind and use the wide coating selection in my toolbox.


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## LINE-X (Aug 17, 2011)

I think you misread me. I'm not bashing coatings or epoxy. As a matter of fact, I have some Sherwin Williams Macro Poxy on the floor right next to me.

Since you're familiar with coatings, you know that polyaspartic polyureas have come on pretty strong in the last 12 to 18 months.


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## Roamer (Jul 5, 2010)

We paint quite a few commercial parking garages. We've used just about every brand of floor coating.

We get the best performance out of a product called Qualideck. Works on garage ramps that are subject to turning hot tires.

http://www.advpolytech.com/systems/protective-coating-systems/


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

LINE-X said:


> I think you misread me. I'm not bashing coatings or epoxy. As a matter of fact, I have some Sherwin Williams Macro Poxy on the floor right next to me.
> 
> Since you're familiar with coatings, you know that polyaspartic polyureas have come on pretty strong in the last 12 to 18 months.


Do you guys offer training or webinars for floor applications? I thought lineX was a franchised product.

Painting floors can't be as difficult as going up a 30' ladder all day. it's kind of a trade secret that most guys want to keep to themselves and don't want to talk about.[yes i've seen the youtube vids} the niche markets is where the money is!


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## LINE-X (Aug 17, 2011)

Garage floors is a very small percentage of my business. The majority is application of various spray-on elastomers.


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

are you a franchisee or a salesman? is that your graco AAA finish pro in the picture?


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Xmark said:


> are you a franchisee or a salesman? is that your graco AAA finish pro in the picture?


Looks like something else other than aaa to me.


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

it's blue and has a big hose. i guessed wrong:yes:


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Workaholic said:


> Looks like something else other than aaa to me.


Yea probably 6-8k more than a graco AAA.

I also imagine there is a bit more overspray.:whistling2:


LineX where are you from?


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## LINE-X (Aug 17, 2011)

Franchise owner in Fort Worth.

The first pic is a Graco FoamCat. The second pic is a little Graco E-10.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

What was your initial investment? I have spoken to a friend who owns a body shop, and he couldn't do the volume to pay for a franchise. I didn't realize line-x had other applications like you have been posting.


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## LINE-X (Aug 17, 2011)

Honestly, I don't remember, it's been about 10 years ago. LINE-X is quite diversified with 20 or so products.

LINE-X is #195 of Entrepreneur Magazine's top 500 franchises.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Plural component coatings are a good business to be in. I was applying this stuff when it was in it's development stage during the 90's. Right now I couldn't tell you the difference between a polyurea and an 100% solid elastomeric without digging out some notes. We're just not set up with a plural unit. Graco has some nice machines but if I remember correctly they cost upwards of $25,000 or so.

I remember getting the ratios off and all the complications that followed.

Do you also do the abrasive blasting requirements LX?


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## LINE-X (Aug 17, 2011)

The current Graco machines don't allow you to spray off ratio. The machines detect this and either give you a warning light (E-10) or shut off automatically (E-XP2). It's a life saver for sure.

Abrasive blasting or mechanical grinding of some sort is typical for most applications.

These are forklift guards that belong to a major airline company. They have been media blasted and we are now priming them with an anti-corrosion primer. Pull of strength will be well over 2,000 psi.










The guards are coated with LINE-X XS-350 which is about three times stronger than the truck bedliner product.










It's strong enough to withstand a pretty good blast.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

You sprayed those with a gravity cup?


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## LINE-X (Aug 17, 2011)

straight_lines said:


> You sprayed those with a gravity cup?


The primer is being sprayed with a primer spraygun with air. The LINE-X is applied with heat (about 140 degrees) and high pressure (about 2,000 psi).


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Very cool stuff LX! 

Question: Is Line-X an industrial coatings application co., or strictly a coatings manufacturer. I haven't looked at the web site yet. Also, are you on the West Coast, and do you get training through SSPC or NACE?

Looks like you have a nice spray area too!


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## LINE-X (Aug 17, 2011)

Application company. Most of the products are manufactured for LINE-X by BASF via proprietary formulas. LINE-X is the second largest user of the raw materials just behind Spandex. Interestingly, the LINE-X Xtra product is co-owned by DuPont and LINE-X (manufactured by DuPont). It's the only product DuPont has ever co-owned with another company. 

LINE-X offers training every year. The amount of training varies from an online video, to a one day meeting, to a multi-day hands-on. SSPC has held classes for LINE-X dealers only. It's a combo C1 and C2 course as they relate to our industry. There was a test at the end of the course. While we are not SSPC "certified", we are allowed to say we are SSPC "trained" if the test was passed. I've done it all, I've taken all the training LINE-X has offered including the SSPC course, and yes, I did pass the test.

Dick Vermeil, guest speaker at a LINE-X Global Dealer Conference.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

That's great! I too have completed the SSPC C1 and C2 Coatings, and Project Management course, but yet to obtain an SSPC Coatings Specialist certification.
A lot of great information in both. I also believe SSPC QP1 and QP2 are good marketing tools for a coatings company as far as establishing credibility and qualifications. 

Thanks for the information, and I wish you great success with your business!


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## LINE-X (Aug 17, 2011)

CApainter said:


> That's great! I too have completed the SSPC C1 and C2 Coatings, and Project Management course, but yet to obtain an SSPC Coatings Specialist certification.
> A lot of great information in both. I also believe SSPC QP1 and QP2 are good marketing tools for a coatings company as far as establishing credibility and qualifications.
> 
> Thanks for the information, and I wish you great success with your business!


Thank you for your kind words!


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

LINE-X said:


> The primer is being sprayed with a primer spraygun with air. The LINE-X is applied with heat (about 140 degrees) and high pressure (about 2,000 psi).


are you doing garage floors? how many are you doing per month? how are you marketing? with door knockers made by the company?


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## LINE-X (Aug 17, 2011)

I don't push garage floors. I do advertise floors on my website, LINE-X advertises floors on their website, but that's it. Most of the jobs come from my existing customers and others respond to the advertising. I do use Google and MSN pay-per-click advertising, but I don't include floors.


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

LINE-X said:


> I don't push garage floors. I do advertise floors on my website, LINE-X advertises floors on their website, but that's it. Most of the jobs come from my existing customers and others respond to the advertising. I do use Google and MSN pay-per-click advertising, but I don't include floors.


you'd think that the market for floors would be much bigger than for truck beds. most garage floors are in the 2K-4K range.


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## LINE-X (Aug 17, 2011)

Xmark said:


> you'd think that the market for floors would be much bigger than for truck beds. most garage floors are in the 2K-4K range.


Maybe in some markets. I'm in Texas, there's PLENTY of trucks here!


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## Sully (May 25, 2011)

Benjamin Moore heard my complaints and answered swiftly. I'm pretty impressed. Now I Have what I need for a more high end clientele. Just so happened to be on a high end job this week so everything really worked out well. I also snagged a few garage guard Sale sheets. Product looks nice made by inslx


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## Andrew LB (Sep 3, 2013)

LINE-X said:


> It's strong enough to withstand a pretty good blast.


Hah! I saw that episode of Mythbusters.

I'm still amazed that Line-X held up against high explosives the way it did.

video: http://youtu.be/3JOXrpCLCJg


I've had two pickup trucks with LineX bedliners, and my current Audi A4 has had line-x coated trunk, doors, and the floor of the car. eliminates road noise.


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