# what does flashing mean to you?



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Curious how everyone interprets the term flashing. 

Kick it off with this one... but for me I define flashing as any discrepancy in the finish. The filler used in a nail hole may look dull through the finish coat of paint but another filler may cause the area over the holes to look extra shiny. Or like the photo below, there are drywall muds that flash shiny and others that flash as a dull area on an eggshell wall for example.


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## Sully (May 25, 2011)

You got it compounds flashing through finish! Sometimes I'll say the cuts flash referring to hatbanding..


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

another drywall patch


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

some extreme flashing... this is Duration Home satin... these photos I am posting are from product testing eggshell paints and their ability to cover a wide assortment of patching compounds. Currently I am working on paint companies top of the line eggshell paint deathmatch. 



this one here is BEHR Ultra, no flash


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

Oh- I see what you did there! (rhymes with there)


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

BrushJockey said:


> Oh- I see what you did there! (rhymes with there)


good one... didn't realize it until you pointed that out. Anyone having any luck with minimal to no patch flashing with eggshell paints with one coat? Which product? Not that I expect paint to cover a patch in 1 coat but this roundup is more to find out how many coats it does take. 4 is not acceptable and product like that should be pulled off the store shelves IMO. Thats junk if you ask me and I am not paying $40+ for that mess!


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## mustangmike3789 (Jun 11, 2011)

good job jack. some of the pics look more like bad attempts at touch-ups to me. i would like to see a side by side compairison with that red color.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

How do you find time to paint?

Aura works good directly over patches.


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## Sully (May 25, 2011)

Anything against spot priming?


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

The Duration looks like its patched over the finish! The Behr needs a better angle to really see whats going on. IMHO


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## bigjeffie61520 (Oct 3, 2009)

eggshell is long gone in favor of matte in these parts.

r u spot priming the point up?

some times i will hit it with a sealer, then once w/ a finish. then final coat the wall

at minimum, spot prime pointing w/ one finish, then final finish, will generally subdue all but the fussiest eye for flashing.

ultra is a good paint, ok? i say it. i tried it at your recommendation jp.
it is on par w/ regal etc premium paints in its price category.
in some circumstances it may be better, in others not quite as good

i tried the red. no. I dont buy your pictures. it is like any other red, it needs a grey base primer to cover and show properly.
i am not calling you out, but i damn sure dont believe it.

u and the "magic of ultra" gets old dude. that is where we are going right?

if not, I stand down quietly, and leave the floor for the others to comment...


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Another thing that would change the outcome of this test is the sheen of each companies eggshell. Some have way more sheen while others are closer to a matte finish. I don't know how you would test something like that.


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## 4ThGeneration (Apr 17, 2007)

The Duration photos look like the patch was sanded after it was allowed to dry. The Behr looks like a lower sheen than the Duration, but that is a big problem. Some mud patches react differently. We went through this many moons ago on new construction and this was the finding in our case. The problem was only a problem on touch ups. sometimes the "Hot" mud reacts diff also.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Usually flashing is due to painting over a sealed surface that has open porous areas on it. Egg, sealed wall with a unsealed drywall patch. I don't have much issues with it, If there is a issue I just slap another coat on it. 

If it it's done right in the beginning, you won't have issues with flashing.


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## Ultimate (Mar 20, 2011)

jack pauhl said:


> Curious how everyone interprets the term flashing.
> 
> Kick it off with this one... but for me I define flashing as any discrepancy in the finish. The filler used in a nail hole may look dull through the finish coat of paint but another filler may cause the area over the holes to look extra shiny. Or like the photo below, there are drywall muds that flash shiny and others that flash as a dull area on an eggshell wall for example.


I call that a hack that didn't prime properly prior to painting as well as a coat of paint that hasn't fully cured either. A coat of Master Prep then paint and that doesn't happen. Master Prep is far less expensive than a finishing paint anyway so why skip doing the prime correctly. A good final coat comes from a good prime and prep. 

NC walls. One prime, two finals. Anything less you should stick with project housing and apartment painting


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Fill the nail and screw holes, give it a good wipe down, then two top coats takes care of it. If there has been major patching done then prime first, then two top coats. I'm one of those that always goes for two unless it's a re-coat in the same color and same sheen. Just always looks better. Eggshell is still the most popular around here.
Had a buddy who always thought he was doing me a favor by spackling the nail holes before I came to paint for them. He was from the, "If a little is good than more must be better.", school of hole filling. Told him people will virtually never see the hole that was properly filled but will see the big glop of texture altering spackle that you leave there to dry. Also told him to please leave the hole filling to me.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> Curious how everyone interprets the term flashing.
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jackpauhl/3960758221/


 
Well..............being an ex-dirtbag biker type. Flashing is when some woman pulls up her shirt and cuts those puppies lose.

Some don't have to pull the shirt up much above the belt (sag) and some have actually scarred me for life. :blink:

Then some.....well... :notworthy::notworthy:


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## Ultimate (Mar 20, 2011)

^ That quote in your signature is awesome


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## One Coat Coverage (Oct 4, 2009)

I usually use SW 200 eg-shel, we hit up our spackle spots with paint one time, then apply two coats of paint, no flashing. If I had to skim coat, or patch large areas, we will prime with SW Pro-Block, then two coats 200 eg-shel, no flashing.


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## One Coat Coverage (Oct 4, 2009)

Honestly, I've been getting away from eg-shel entirly, I'm fond of SW 200 Low Sheen.


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## Slopmeyer (Aug 2, 2009)

jack pauhl said:


> some extreme flashing... this is Duration Home satin... these photos I am posting are from product testing eggshell paints and their ability to cover a wide assortment of patching compounds. Currently I am working on paint companies top of the line eggshell paint deathmatch.
> 
> 
> 
> this one here is BEHR Ultra, no flash


Always pushing the Behr


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

Its always self-destructive to post about a drywall issue in a paint forum if your a drywaller,,,

but you guys know how much I love the abuse!!!

The long and the short of it is THIS:
1)you have to prime and prep drywall (even painters know this)
2)IF you then turn around and put drywall compound on a "spot",,, you then need to (see point number one)

It don't really make a rats arse what you "fix" it with,, it is then snatched back to "the beginning" and needs to be dealt with in that matter.

In my dazed and confused life,,, I have come to understand that I cannot "short-circut" the fixing problem, If you really want to elimanate this,,,, after you prime,,, mix abit of blue chaulk in a piece of a bucket of mud, then "point-up", then sand the "blue" spots, and re-prime em till THEY don't flash,,, then you can paint the wall with what=ever your poison is !!!


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## Slopmeyer (Aug 2, 2009)

I usually hit the spots with the ceiling paint(masterhide) then two coats of finish. Works most of the time only time it flashes is the difference in roller texture compared to the repair in direct sunlight.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

941owassard said:


> I usually hit the spots with the ceiling paint(masterhide) then two coats of finish. Works most of the time only time it flashes is the difference in roller texture compared to the repair in direct sunlight.


 If you did this as mentioned in the post above,,,, the "texture" differance will go away


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

If a wall is prepped and primed right before you roll the finish coat on it,, there will be no flashing, or texture problem.

A show of hands?????


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

Wow,I dont think the OP was a question about how to prevent flashing??


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

No one is blaming the drywaller captain. Relax and take a sip from your sippy cup.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

I just use a little 3-4" mini-roller and hit the spots with some primer before painting. No big deal.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Wolfgang said:


> I just use a little 3-4" mini-roller and hit the spots with some primer before painting. No big deal.


I will maybe feather a round of paint on top of that just before I start cutting, so it is dry before I roll the wall. I find the biggest deal is to blend the texture, more so than sheen. I do find that the primer used makes a difference. Big difference between super spec and fresh start. I prefer super spec. Fresh start is more likely to broadcast on the high side and cause angular sheen. Its nice to find something that works and keep it simple.


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> If a wall is prepped and primed right before you roll the finish coat on it,, there will be no flashing, or texture problem.
> 
> A show of hands?????


 Absolutely agree Capt. Unless one chooses to use some bargain basement cheap ass paint products-then all bets are off.

On sort of a side not, and I am not looking to derail the thread. As a drywaller are you sanding after your polish coat? Years ago the Tapers I knew* never* sanded after their final coat, if at all. It was all accomplished with the knives, compound & skill. Now it seems they are incapable and they put it on and then sand it off trying to get it smooth and fuzz up the paper of the sheet rock in the process. We get there and it is a dusty, fuzzy mess. Years ago it was slick and no dust or fuzz. I think sometimes the half ass sanding process is causing different textures in the compound/paper facing and contributing to what some guys are calling flashing. I've been at this a long time. Sanding the sh!t out of a fresh professional tape and spackle job is ridiculous. To make matters worse many of the tapers have got the customers convinced that it is now part of the "painters prep" to sand out a fresh completed tape and spackle job. I know Porter Cable has everyone convinced! Just looking for your take on the state-of-the-art.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I usually have the best luck spot priming with the finish paint.


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

DeanV said:


> I usually have the best luck spot priming with the finish paint.


 That's the way we usually handle it as well unless it is extensive, then we'll break out the primer.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

DeanV said:


> I usually have the best luck spot priming with the finish paint.


That can be an issue with a lot of eggshell on out there thou.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

CliffK said:


> Absolutely agree Capt. Unless one chooses to use some bargain basement cheap ass paint products-then all bets are off.
> 
> On sort of a side not, and I am not looking to derail the thread. As a drywaller are you sanding after your polish coat? Years ago the Tapers I knew* never* sanded after their final coat, if at all. It was all accomplished with the knives, compound & skill. Now it seems they are incapable and they put it on and then sand it off trying to get it smooth and fuzz up the paper of the sheet rock in the process. We get there and it is a dusty, fuzzy mess. Years ago it was slick and no dust or fuzz. I think sometimes the half ass sanding process is causing different textures in the compound/paper facing and contributing to what some guys are calling flashing. I've been at this a long time. Sanding the sh!t out of a fresh professional tape and spackle job is ridiculous. To make matters worse many of the tapers have got the customers convinced that it is now part of the "painters prep" to sand out a fresh completed tape and spackle job. I know Porter Cable has everyone convinced! Just looking for your take on the state-of-the-art.


I know I get abit LOUD at times,, and I don't really mean too (most the time). My point was to try to say this,,,, if the primer coat is fixed before the finish goes on,,, most all these problems just dissapear.

I hear ya on the differance of today with PC and yesterday with "hand-finishers". Use to be we had a saying "are you a finisher or a sander?"

The finish can be done by hand and no sanding needed, however it requires twice the time of the methods used today,,, you just cannot get a hand finish done as fast as a "sandable" finish. Like in paint,, the FIRST and ONLY thing the GC wants to know is HOW FAST CAN YOU GET IT DONE.

When it pays the same for a sandable finish and a hand finish,,,, well you know what we are getting these days!!:yes:


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

ewingpainting.net said:


> No one is blaming the drywaller captain. Relax and take a sip from your sippy cup.


 I know man,, I get abit riled up at times. I was trying to say this

It seems to me that most of the times, we rush in,rush the prep, hurry up and get the first coat on,,,, THEN we start to check for flaws.

If we would slow down and spend abit more time on the prime and prep, we would eliminate most of these problems


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Do we really need a wonder paint to take care of flashing? Primer works...


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

straight_lines said:


> That can be an issue with a lot of eggshell on out there thou.


Can you elaborate at all (issues with particular brands)? I still use about 75% eggshell out here and with just one coat (no priming on the small spots) you can still see them but after the second coat they are gone.
Have to also add that out here there are very few smooth finished walls, almost all are either orange peel or knockdown. Would definitely make a difference.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

TJ Paint said:


> Do we really need a wonder paint to take care of flashing? Primer works...


I dont know if its just me, but I use some of the self priming ultra premiums and I have noticed that their adhesion to raw patches is not always great. They tend to want to peel right off sometimes. Or, the next layer you put over them pulls them. Primer never does that.


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

To encourage Jack to continue, the only fair way to do a "death match" would be same wall, same mud, same sheen, same colour"...to many variables with what you've presented.


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## pacificpainters.com (May 5, 2011)

bikerboy said:


> Well..............being an ex-dirtbag biker type. Flashing is when some woman pulls up her shirt and cuts those puppies lose.
> 
> Some don't have to pull the shirt up much above the belt (sag) and some have actually scarred me for life. :blink:
> 
> Then some.....well... :notworthy::notworthy:


 I knew someone would take it there... it was a question of who first. We now know.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

From the techinical dept of a paint manufacturer we had come inspect a problem.


> Sheen irregularities are caused by one of, or a combination of, a couple different factors. The first is an unevenly primed surface. The second is mil thickness differences in the topcoats. Back-rolling after spraying will go a long way towards applying an even coat of paint. Having a light source (in this case a window) at the end of a long wall will highlight these sheen irregularities.
> 
> Refer to the below link from the Paint Quality Institute which is an independent authority for the paint industry.
> 
> ...


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## pacificpainters.com (May 5, 2011)

When we talk about primers, sealers, undercoats I believe we are talking about not so much the product but what the product does and the properties that make the product do what it does.

Most of this comes down to:


Type of binder used
type of pigment
pigment to binder ratio

So in selecting a primer to reduce flashing it is not just a matter of selecting a "primer" as such. It is a matter of selecting a product that has suitable properties. As experienced applicators we will have our preferences, but one thing for sure, a standard low-sheen acrylic (eggshell as you yanks call it) will always flash for at least the first two to three coats unless a suitable sealer/primer is used.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Michael,

What do you teach your students are the differences between a "primer" and a "sealer".

It always seemed to me, that on drywall, flashing was caused by an inadequate "sealer" being used. It may have been "primed" but not "sealed" well enough to prevent uneven sheen

But, being out of the actual coatings application for some time, I am sure terminology and product performance has changed, and thus I would appreciate to know what is taught now.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

researchhound said:


> Can you elaborate at all (issues with particular brands)? I still use about 75% eggshell out here and with just one coat (no priming on the small spots) you can still see them but after the second coat they are gone.
> Have to also add that out here there are very few smooth finished walls, almost all are either orange peel or knockdown. Would definitely make a difference.


With the older commercial lines you never applied eggshell directly to drywall or mud, it would usually flash, and sometime fail. 

It was a big no no, and we would usually prime with super spec flat we used on the ceiling. Most decent flats will work for priming patch work.

Now these newer premium paints are all marketed as self priming. Point I was making was about sheen, and the flatter the eggshell the better it will be at priming. 

So you must consider that when you evaluate the issues with flashing. I have used the new Ben, and Aura both in eggshell over mud patches without flashing issues.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

spot roll the patches with the finish then then i cut an roll 2 coats ...........never in my life have i had a problem..........


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## cappaint (May 24, 2011)

I just used 10 gallons of Duration Home and there is def. flashing after 2 coats. Used Behr Ultra today, 2 coats and no flashing. Not saying its better but it does cover spackled areas better.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Which coating had more sheen cap?


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## cappaint (May 24, 2011)

both were low sheen. eggshell-behr

Satin-SW the equivalent to Behr's eggshell


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> If a wall is prepped and primed right before you roll the finish coat on it,, there will be no flashing, or texture problem.
> 
> A show of hands?????


 
or you could just roll a coat of finish on it ! .......best under coat out there is FLAT white or any kind of flat for that matter i just did a skimmed ceiling with 2 coats flat ............done !! looks amazing, last forever but you keep priming your heart out an maybe someday youll be a big boy


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

here look READ ...................drywall= self priming !! .........what is so hard to understand?? lol unreal i mean for cryin out loud ive been spot rolling patches for 13 yrs and you guys are still in the dark


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## Sully (May 25, 2011)

Ahhh Good ol' Rich Lux! That SW paint just cannot compete in my opinion!


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Cant believe im reading all this ****. Patch, seal the patch, 2 coats of paint. No wonder paint, no vodoo chants or prayers. Just ****ing paint.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

TJ Paint said:


> Cant believe im reading all this ****. Patch, seal the patch, 2 coats of paint. No wonder paint, no vodoo chants or prayers. Just ****ing paint.


 
tell me about it .............wth !! .......flashing?? that just means your not done it.


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## pacificpainters.com (May 5, 2011)

daArch said:


> Michael,
> 
> What do you teach your students are the differences between a "primer" and a "sealer".
> 
> ...


Thanks Bill, I hope I answer this correctly and I don't end up with a backlash from someone quibbling over terms.

I think the term primer and sealer can be a little confusing. For me, I feel a sealer is a coating that prevents stains or marks from coming through the coating or prevents moisture from penetrating the surface. In the case of plasterboard (drywall), the objective of a sealer is to prevent the finishing coats penetrating the substrate unevenly causing flashing.

So in effect it controls the absorption of the coating. The plaster joint and screw patches are more absorbent then the paper-faced bed. So unless the sealer is used the low sheen (eggshell) will absorb deeper on the plaster patches and repairs causing a higher film thickness build on the paper face increasing its sheen.

The specific function of a primer (and sometimes a sealer is referred to as a primer) is to condition, protect and prepare a substrate for finishing coats. So when you look at what I stated above in effect the sealer is also a primer.

As I said the term primer, sealer and undercoat relate more to what is being achieved then what it is called.


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## bigjeffie61520 (Oct 3, 2009)

bare drywall.one coat red ultra.finished.didnt u see the picture?


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Pretty sure I read here somewhere that if you pee in the paint it will prevent flashing. Or is it that when you're peeing you flash? Or... oh I'm so confused. :blink:


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

I'd say just skip all prep. No flashing that way


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## Ultimate (Mar 20, 2011)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> In my dazed and confused life,,, I have come to understand that I cannot "short-circut" the fixing problem, If you really want to elimanate this,,,, after you prime,,, mix abit of blue chaulk in a piece of a bucket of mud, then "point-up", then sand the "blue" spots, and re-prime em till THEY don't flash,,, then you can paint the wall with what=ever your poison is !!!


Thank you for this tip. In order to keep my guys from getting 'lost' in their search for the point up areas to sand and prime, I would use a small piece of blue tape to help them find their way. Sounds pathetic I know but.... A GOOD touchup or point up guy isn't always easy to find. In any event, many thanks for the chalk idea.....


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

FatherandSonPainting said:


> Thank you for this tip. In order to keep my guys from getting 'lost' in their search for the point up areas to sand and prime, I would use a small piece of blue tape to help them find their way. Sounds pathetic I know but.... A GOOD touchup or point up guy isn't always easy to find. In any event, many thanks for the chalk idea.....


 
Like this?


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## pacificpainters.com (May 5, 2011)

That's funny on so many levels!


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

:blink:!!!:blink:!!!:blink:!!!


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## Ultimate (Mar 20, 2011)

hilarious. 

Please do you have close ups? I want the story on this.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

FatherandSonPainting said:


> hilarious.
> 
> Please do you have close ups? I want the story on this.


Not MY job, I stole the pics from somewhere, probably here.:blink:


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

...unless it was your client. Then the funny runs away and hides...


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

It's funny, until it happens to you.

BTW, thanks Michael, I'd agree with your definition of terms. Although I would disagree with your statement, "in effect the sealer is also a primer" as it makes it sound like all sealers or primers. Case in point, I would call Gardz/Draw-tite "sealers", but not "primers". But your mileage may differ.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Keep it simple.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

vermontpainter said:


> Keep it simple.


This painting deal is getting out of hand.


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## CK_68847 (Apr 17, 2010)

Sully said:


> Anything against spot priming?


Exactly. Of course a patch is going to show through one coat of paint. If it is egshell, in most instances, you should be able to spot prime with the egshell and hit it again, therefore hiding the patch. I have never had a problem with any egshell by putting two coats over the patch unless the drywall job is horrible. 

I just finished an elementary school which was all semi gloss. Even by using primer and a coat of finish paint to spot prime new patches before the final coat, there was still some flashing. This happened mainly on window walls. Semi gloss is a much different than eghsell because its a lighter paint which presents coverage problems.

Most of the jobs we do are larger, so we prime and put one coat of finish on at the begining. Near the end, the drywaller comes back and patches any imperfections. We spot prime, and put the final coat on by brush and roller. This is the best method I have found because other trades beat up a painters job all the time on small to big jobs.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

CK_68847 said:


> Exactly. Of course a patch is going to show through one coat of paint. If it is egshell, in most instances, you should be able to spot prime with the egshell and hit it again, therefore hiding the patch. I have never had a problem with any egshell by putting two coats over the patch unless the drywall job is horrible.
> 
> I just finished an elementary school which was all semi gloss. Even by using primer and a coat of finish paint to spot prime new patches before the final coat, there was still some flashing. This happened mainly on window walls. Semi gloss is a much different than eghsell because its a lighter paint which presents coverage problems.
> 
> Most of the jobs we do are larger, so we prime and put one coat of finish on at the begining. Near the end, the drywaller comes back and patches any imperfections. We spot prime, and put the final coat on by brush and roller. This is the best method I have found because other trades beat up a painters job all the time on small to big jobs.


Use gardz to seal patches like that. Seals better than other primers... wait, is gardz a primer/sealer or just a sealer? I'm so confused now, this painting thing is getting scary.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

Ole34 said:


> or you could just roll a coat of finish on it ! .......best under coat out there is FLAT white or any kind of flat for that matter i just did a skimmed ceiling with 2 coats flat ............done !! looks amazing, last forever but you keep priming your heart out an maybe someday youll be a big boy


 Well, ,,,can we talk?????? 

This thread is about egg-shell,,,,pay attention dummy.

I spray my ceilings with one coat of flat, crosshatched,,, sorry you have to use two. On the walls, if its flat,,,big boy,,, I shield the ceiling, and back-roll the wall,, covering it all in one coat(cause the wall is prepped right,,, I'm a drywaller remember,,, I know a wall better than you ever will).

If ya want to insult me,,, thats an easy thing, as I am a douche bag, no doubt,,,, but don't come at me with kindergarden stuff,,,,,

okay?????


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Guys ffs, this was about Eggshell applied directly to bare substrate and it flashing.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> Guys ffs, this was about Eggshell applied directly to bare substrate and it flashing.


 Ya dern skippy it was


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I spray my ceilings with one coat of flat, crosshatched,,, sorry you have to use two. On the walls, if its flat,,,big boy,,, I shield the ceiling, and back-roll the wall,, covering it all in one coat(cause the wall is prepped right,,, I'm a drywaller remember,,, I know a wall better than you ever will).
> 
> If ya want to insult me,,, thats an easy thing, as I am a douche bag, no doubt,,,, but don't come at me with kindergarden stuff,,,,,
> 
> okay?????


 
i highlighted the part in RED where you need to stop talking ...........everything past that means nothing in relation to my comment .........apples to oranges


somebody get this monkey a football


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

Ole34 said:


> i highlighted the part in RED where you need to stop talking ...........everything past that means nothing in relation to my comment .........apples to oranges
> 
> 
> somebody get this monkey a football


Sorry bubba,,, didn't realize you were still rolling your ceilings,,,,LOL,:thumbsup:

Are you still driveing a horse and buggy???? is your buggy painted camo, or is it pure white???:thumbup:

Do you roll your ceilings with a power roller, or do you still do it by hand????:jester:


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

Sigh, maybe politics ain't so bad!
Let's not go there guys.


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## Ultimate (Mar 20, 2011)

Oh NVM


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Painting 101.

Where is that DIY quote and direction that chatroom?


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

RCP said:


> Sigh, maybe politics ain't so bad!
> Let's not go there guys.


 

Capt started it


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## sagebrush123 (Mar 11, 2011)

I have the same attitude as someone else here posting.

patch,sand, primer/sealer, and two top coats.

also I see flashing thru the red behr ultra.....


there can be so many options for patching compound and drywall muds......paints, primers, sealers, and many styles of peoples initiating the work.

this is an endless debate. I can see where I am being closed minded AND I can see where I am being closed minded.

also......bikerboy! thank your mom and her sagging breasts for giving you sustenance......

when will we EVER look past the surface?


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## sagebrush123 (Mar 11, 2011)

Flashing means anything you are SEEING that you DON"T want to be seeing.....


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

sagebrush123 said:


> Flashing means anything you are SEEING that you DON"T want to be seeing.....


Are we still talking about paint finishes?


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## sagebrush123 (Mar 11, 2011)

what are you talkin' about?


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

As usual- Arch opens pandoras box...

:thumbsup:


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## pacificpainters.com (May 5, 2011)

daArch said:


> It's funny, until it happens to you.
> 
> BTW, thanks Michael, I'd agree with your definition of terms. Although I would disagree with your statement, "in effect the sealer is also a primer" as it makes it sound like all sealers or primers. Case in point, I would call Gardz/Draw-tite "sealers", but not "primers". But your mileage may differ.


Thanks Bill, Not familiar with the product you mentioned, as I said I think it can get a bit confusing when we talk about terminology. Especially the word sealer and primer.

I am glad that we are all belting this thing around a bit, I know it may seem like we are flogging a dead horse but in the end it is making all of us rethink how we view primers or sealers. 

Bill when you say "mileage" my thought is that I see from your post you have more "mileage" then me and have been in the game longer. That means your knowledge out trumps my knowledge, and I am happy to concur with your definitions and pay respect to the old dog (I mean old dog as a compliment).:notworthy:


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## jenni (Aug 4, 2011)

just painted some lofts with KILZ pro-x flat and dead flat that the contractor provided. the walls and ceilings were patched and mudded like crazy but the pro-x actually covered it up pretty well. the paint feels so cheap and thin - like water - we were joking that we felt like we were just washing the walls instead of painting them. but when it dried, it covered the patches and mud pretty well. strange.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

I'm surprised the mods haven't sent anybody to bed without their supper. :whistling2:


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

jenni said:


> just painted some lofts with KILZ pro-x flat and dead flat that the contractor provided. the walls and ceilings were patched and mudded like crazy but the pro-x actually covered it up pretty well. the paint feels so cheap and thin - like water - we were joking that we felt like we were just washing the walls instead of painting them. but when it dried, it covered the patches and mud pretty well. strange.


flats won't shine out as bad


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## CK_68847 (Apr 17, 2010)

TJ Paint said:


> Use gardz to seal patches like that. Seals better than other primers... wait, is gardz a primer/sealer or just a sealer? I'm so confused now, this painting thing is getting scary.


Actually the best thing you can use is builders solution which is a sealer. They have went from using level 5 finish for drywall around here to using this product. It is suppose to give you a level 5 finish also. USG also has the same thing to apply. You can only spray it though with no backrolling. I have had very good luck with the builders solution from SW. You have to backroll a ton to avoid texture, but the product hides very well with semigloss as long as the finish is adequate.


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