# GARDZ Primer vs. BIN Primer



## Paintymcpainter (Feb 22, 2018)

I need to know which product is superior for: 1. Drying time
2. Sealing plaster and drywall board
3. Leaving an even sheen on the wall (no weird flat spots)

So far it looks like BIN primer might be the winner with a 20 min dry time vs GARDZ is 30 mins, but anyone have personal experience and preference with these products?


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## ThreeSistersPainting (Jan 7, 2017)

Shellac is usually used for stain blocking and sealing. Homes that have been smoked in, water-stained drywall, or its a good base for cabinets getting painted. 

Your better off using a PVA primer that is designed for plaster and drywall, its generally cheaper as well.


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

Well, you got a couple of members on here who think GARDZ is the cat's meow and believe it is the ultimate problem solver for everything. I think one of them sleeps with a can of it next to him!:surprise:


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

BIN isnt usually used for wall primer, unless theres stains or odors that need blocked.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

ThreeSistersPainting said:


> Shellac is usually used for stain blocking and sealing. Homes that have been smoked in, water-stained drywall, or its a good base for cabinets getting painted.
> 
> Your better off using a PVA primer that is designed for plaster and drywall, its generally cheaper as well.


 
:vs_whistle::vs_whistle::vs_whistle:


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Those are both huge over kills for new drywall. Just use a high quality "drywall primer" and you will be fine. That is after all why they are labelled "drywall primer" on the can.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Sleeping habits*



Brushman4 said:


> Well, you got a couple of members on here who think GARDZ is the cat's meow and believe it is the ultimate problem solver for everything. I think one of them sleeps with a can of it next to him!:surprise:


Brushman4, what is wrong with sleeping with Gardz? It gives me a very uniform sleep!

futtyos


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## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

Hot topic. 

Ideally a primer that truely seals would be best. Gardz/kilz klear/drawtite/Roman something something does that on new drywall but doesn't sand really. And I never painted new drywall that didnt need a spot and sand after priming. If the scope of the job allows any cheap sandable primer would go on heavy first, then sand flat then gardz then paint. This is for critical light and too much extra material and labor to do regularly. I know that works. 

I am going to try ppg 6-2 on my next new drywall job to see what it's about. I also may experiment using something like SW wall and wood or ppg acrylic enamel undercoat on a small job like a bedroom to check their adhesion. Never used either of those on drywall, just trim. I would be concerned about adhesion. Both should provide a good base for sheen. Ppg can be had for pretty cheap (not pva cheap).

I think bin is overkill on new drywall. 

Could always go back to alkyds. 


Drywall and compound are sponge like. The problem is a lot of primer products claim to seal but don't. 

I have had luck with and without gardz. 

Some customers don't warrant any of the above. Even if you pointed out flashing they either "I still can't see it" or just don't care.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

sayn3ver said:


> Hot topic.
> 
> Ideally a primer that truely seals would be best. Gardz/kilz klear/drawtite/Roman something something does that on new drywall but doesn't sand really. And I never painted new drywall that didnt need a spot and sand after priming. If the scope of the job allows any cheap sandable primer would go on heavy first, then sand flat then gardz then paint. This is for critical light and too much extra material and labor to do regularly. I know that works.
> 
> ...


unfortunately "drywall primers" and "pva primers" have generally been cheapened to the point to get them down to the box store price points that they don't work worth a crap anymore. The PPG 6-2 is a true bona fide drywall primer. Not like the cheap a55 $39.99 buckets they sell at Home Depot and Lowe's that are all chalk and water.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

PPG 6-2 is our go to primer when we did new construction. Sprayed and backrolled, it gives a nice solid coat. It does have a sheen to it.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

DeanV said:


> PPG 6-2 is our go to primer when we did new construction. Sprayed and backrolled, it gives a nice solid coat. It does have a sheen to it.


I sold tons of it. Never had a complaint. Unlike the hundreds of complaints i got on PM200 drywall primer!


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## Paintymcpainter (Feb 22, 2018)

First of all, thank you everyone for your input.

What if cost of product wasn't a concern and time was the biggest factor, and how effectively it seals, so that I can put the finish coat on within an hour or less (and it'll adhere decently and not bubble etc). 

What would be your recommended quick dry, seals great primer? Still PPG 6-2? Sorry if I wasn't being clear before. I'm not going to use this to prime a bunch of walls for a condo, where I can return to the first wall and everything will be dry by then. 

My question is what kind of primer to use when you only have a few small walls to do at the same time, and you have to prep and prime those in a time crunch. I will already have the room at an optimal temperature and turn on fans.

Thanks again, everyone



sayn3ver said:


> Hot topic.
> 
> Ideally a primer that truely seals would be best. Gardz/kilz klear/drawtite/Roman something something does that on new drywall but doesn't sand really. And I never painted new drywall that didnt need a spot and sand after priming.


I am expecting to have to sand my work a little after priming it. What happens when you try to sand GARDZ? It gets all rubbery?


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

If I wanted the quickest way I’d skip the primer all together and apply two finish coats of Aura. Self priming, one hour recoat time. Two coats and you’re done. 

I’ve used some other cheaper self priming acrylics on new rock also, and they’ve worked fine as well as long as all surface dust is removed. But Aura is really great for that. Sands great also.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

as far as BM guys here are using a variety of: SK1000/3000, ultraspec 500 primer, super hide zero, sureseal or 046 if the customer says "i have too much $$$ give me your best primer".

sk1000 is pretty comparable to the ppg 6-2

guardz? bin? no, these are reserved for problem areas not fresh drywall.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

futtyos said:


> Brushman4, what is wrong with sleeping with Gardz? It gives me a very uniform sleep!
> 
> futtyos


ROFLOLOLOL!!!!!!

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*In my dreams*



lilpaintchic said:


> ROFLOLOLOL!!!!!!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


Did I also mention that I dream about using Gardz? Nothing kinky, my dreams are all G rated, the whole family can watch.

futtyos


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

Paintymcpainter said:


> First of all, thank you everyone for your input.
> 
> What if cost of product wasn't a concern and time was the biggest factor, and how effectively it seals, so that I can put the finish coat on within an hour or less (and it'll adhere decently and not bubble etc).
> 
> ...


I do not have the experience that many here, such as Jmayspaint, have with Aura, so I cannot say this or that about it. My guess is that if the surface you are painting is dust free enough, the fastest way to get the job done regardless of cost would be to use Aura - that is, if you know how to apply it properly.

Are you doing a repaint? With the same color?

Time crunches are interesting. Trying to execute them in haste reminds me of what the white rabbit said in Alice in Wonderland: "The hurrieder I go, the behinder I get."

I have tried to force myself through time crunches enough times to get to the point where I have realized that unless I knew some magic trick, the fastest way to get the job done was to do it properly from scratch. That is why I like Gardz so much. The first coat goes on slowly as it is being sucked into the porous material you are applying it to. I have found that, for the most part, when I am done with the first coat of Gardz, I can go ahead and apply the second coat of Gardz. This coat goes on much faster than the first as the first coat pretty much seals the surface. The 2nd coat helps get rid of the areas that are flashing - just as is recommended in the Gardz' TDS. Once you are done with the Gardz and the surface has properly dried (with the help of high powered fans) you are ready to apply the first of the 2 top coat finishes.

The reason I am such a fan of Gardz is that it has allowed me to avoid doing more experiments than I have already done. I realize that if I continue to paint, I will come across more experiments, but that is part of the painting business, at least from what i have found.

I have never tried the PPG 6-2 myself. If you decide to use this, please let us know how it worked.

futtyos


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## allcitypaintingwi (Aug 16, 2016)

Paintymcpainter said:


> I need to know which product is superior for: 1. Drying time
> 2. Sealing plaster and drywall board
> 3. Leaving an even sheen on the wall (no weird flat spots)
> 
> So far it looks like BIN primer might be the winner with a 20 min dry time vs GARDZ is 30 mins, but anyone have personal experience and preference with these products?


I'd use a high build. A little more expensive but pays off in the end..Just my opinion..


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

futtyos said:


> Brushman4, what is wrong with sleeping with Gardz? It gives me a very uniform sleep!
> 
> futtyos


Snuggle up to the can futtyos, snuggle up.....


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## Paintymcpainter (Feb 22, 2018)

futtyos said:


> Time crunches are interesting. Trying to execute them in haste reminds me of what the white rabbit said in Alice in Wonderland: "The hurrieder I go, the behinder I get."
> 
> I have tried to force myself through time crunches enough times to get to the point where I have realized that unless I knew some magic trick, the fastest way to get the job done was to do it properly from scratch. That is why I like Gardz so much. The first coat goes on slowly as it is being sucked into the porous material you are applying it to. I have found that, for the most part, when I am done with the first coat of Gardz, I can go ahead and apply the second coat of Gardz. This coat goes on much faster than the first as the first coat pretty much seals the surface. The 2nd coat helps get rid of the areas that are flashing - just as is recommended in the Gardz' TDS. Once you are done with the Gardz and the surface has properly dried (with the help of high powered fans) you are ready to apply the first of the 2 top coat finishes.
> 
> ...


Sorry, I nearly forgot about this question! Thanks everyone for your feedback.

futtyos,
Not a repaint of the same colour, painting a different colour with the finish coats. Good to know Gardz seals really well and dries quickly for you.

In my experience of painting new drywall, I don't seem to wipe off all the dust because my finish paint (Aura included) will bubble and not grip on like Gardz would, this makes me afraid to attempt just using Aura to seal it.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

Theres other 'self priming' paints other than aura. Besides, if its new drywall, its gonna soak in and dry super quick. Bring a fan if you're worried about it. 

Oh, I almost forgot. A wall paper trick is to mix gardz and another acrylic primer. It drys quicker for some reason. Thats what I've been doing on all my wallpaper installs. It usually just one wall, so I come in, prime the wall, set up my paste table, and its dry enough to hang on within an hour.


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## PaPainter724 (Apr 22, 2016)

Pretty much all latex paints are "self priming." The ability to stick to drywall isn't the reason you should be using a primer these days as most latex paints will do that on their own. For me, primer's main purpose these days is to achieve a more uniform look. It helps level out the sheen between the paper and joint compound so the seams aren't so noticeable, and you can sand it between coats to really achieve a nicer finish. And, ideally, you're tinting the primer to get the best color from your finish coats. 

I don't know why you're so worried about painting it the second it's dry. If you want it to come out best, you should really prime it, then go and do a light pole sand, then first coat, pole sand and finish coat. 

That being said, I'd say that general purpose drywall primer wise, PPG 6-2 is easily one of the best, especially for the price. I'm also a huge fan of Ben Moore Ultra Spec primer if you want something that has a little more body if the drywall isn't in the best shape. However, 6-2 is our go to for most things. I think they even make a "quick dry" version of it, if you're absolutely in need of speed. But on its own, it usually dries in 20-30 minutes.


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## Ubercorey (Feb 11, 2018)

Speaking of overkill on primer, anyone use 123 over new drywall. Saw a painter do that over orange peel once, wondered why...


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## Ubercorey (Feb 11, 2018)

Also, ive never had good results painting right after I prime. I usually let it dry overnight before I paint. That is if I prime at all. Flat paint sticks great to drywall, as long as you de-dust.


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

futtyos said:


> Did I also mention that I dream about using Gardz? Nothing kinky, my dreams are all G rated, the whole family can watch.
> 
> futtyos


I've heard it also Gardz your soul from demons and evil spirits while asleep...


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## gregplus (Jun 11, 2013)

*hi*

Make sure everyone to use respirator is small areas that has poor ventilation. I did one bathroom today and forgot respirator, man... I almost had to call 911 its so strong... it does not smell bad but somehow it affect breathing badly!

:biggrin:


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Paintymcpainter said:


> I need to know which product is superior for:
> 1. Drying time
> 2. Sealing plaster and drywall board
> 3. Leaving an even sheen on the wall (no weird flat spots)
> ...





Ubercorey said:


> Speaking of overkill on primer, anyone use 123 over new drywall. Saw a painter do that over orange peel once, wondered why...


I often use Zinsser Bullseye 123 W/B primer over bare drywall. Even the Zinsser "Drywall Primer" TDS recommends using 123 on drywall that will receive a coating with a sheen. And for all of the points described by the OP, I would be comfortable using it. However, I would probably use BIN where there were stains.


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## loaded brush (Dec 27, 2007)

Personally wont use Gardz because of the smell. Gardz is ok for unoccupied homes or businesses. Last two times I used Gardz on residential homes, the homeowners were very pissed that it reeked up the whole house from just doing one bigger room on each job, even with exhausting with fans. For that reason that was the last time I used it. Have to admit for an acrylic type product, it does have a wicked stench. There are plenty of other products to choose from that work just as well for sealing surfaces.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Ubercorey said:


> Speaking of overkill on primer, anyone use 123 over new drywall. Saw a painter do that over orange peel once, wondered why...


I know plenty of painters that use higher quality primer on new drywall. Sureseal, ultraspec are :vs_cool:... i know one guy who likes the 046 primer on new drywall at $40/gal I would probably say that's overkill.


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## gregplus (Jun 11, 2013)

*hi*

PPG Gripper under $20 does nice job


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

loaded brush said:


> Personally wont use Gardz because of the smell. Gardz is ok for unoccupied homes or businesses. Last two times I used Gardz on residential homes, the homeowners were very pissed that it reeked up the whole house from just doing one bigger room on each job, even with exhausting with fans. For that reason that was the last time I used it. Have to admit for an acrylic type product, it does have a wicked stench. There are plenty of other products to choose from that work just as well for sealing surfaces.


I sprayed an entire 4800 square foot house with gardz. It was GNARLY.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Rolling Gardz*



Woodco said:


> I sprayed an entire 4800 square foot house with gardz. It was GNARLY.


Woodco, did you ever end up just rolling, not spraying, one wall to see how that worked? I have rolled many ceilings and walls with Gardz without any of the negative effects you have described by spraying Gardz. Just curious.

futtyos


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*The smell of Gardz*



loaded brush said:


> Personally wont use Gardz because of the smell. Gardz is ok for unoccupied homes or businesses. Last two times I used Gardz on residential homes, the homeowners were very pissed that it reeked up the whole house from just doing one bigger room on each job, even with exhausting with fans. For that reason that was the last time I used it. Have to admit for an acrylic type product, it does have a wicked stench. There are plenty of other products to choose from that work just as well for sealing surfaces.


lb, I do have to admit that I do not care for the smell of Gardz. So far I have not had a problem with using it where people are living. Perhaps I have been able to ventilate it well enough or have not done as large a job using it as you have done. If I really think I need to use Gardz on a job where people will be around, I try to set them up for the inconvenience ahead of time. From my experience, the smell seems to dissipate after an hour or so to the point that it is no longer objectionable to the HOs.

As to there being plenty of other products to choose from that work just as well for sealing surfaces, I would be interested to know of any that soak into the surface, harden and seal against water as well as Gardz does. I have yet to use Draw-Tite and have heard that Roman 35 and other knock offs are not as good as Gardz. 

futtyos


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## ParamountPaint (Aug 25, 2016)

I would highly recommend the PPG 6-2 for new drywall. It's a nice primer and I have no complaints whatsoever. 

Price is good, covers well, sands well. What more would you want?

Excellent sealing for higher sheen top coats...eggshell and satin, for sure. Semi-gloss...I'll use seal grip. I've been pretty successful at dodging any semi-gloss on walls and ceilings for years. Hopefully the streak will hold.


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

loaded brush said:


> Personally wont use Gardz because of the smell. Gardz is ok for unoccupied homes or businesses. Last two times I used Gardz on residential homes, the homeowners were very pissed that it reeked up the whole house from just doing one bigger room on each job, even with exhausting with fans. For that reason that was the last time I used it. Have to admit for an acrylic type product, it does have a wicked stench. There are plenty of other products to choose from that work just as well for sealing surfaces.


I agree with you, it smells like a high school gym class locker room after practice!


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

futtyos said:


> Woodco, did you ever end up just rolling, not spraying, one wall to see how that worked? I have rolled many ceilings and walls with Gardz without any of the negative effects you have described by spraying Gardz. Just curious.
> 
> futtyos


No, and Im not going to. Theres no reason to. I already know that the problems I had was due to spraying. Im just going to use normal drywall primer under paint. I still use gardz on a regular basis to prime before wallpaper.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Science*



Woodco said:


> No, and Im not going to. Theres no reason to. I already know that the problems I had was due to spraying. Im just going to use normal drywall primer under paint. I still use gardz on a regular basis to prime before wallpaper.


Woodco, from what I have read of your posts here, I respect your ability as a painting contractor with a fairly broad knowledge of how to use materials and various tools of the trade to accomplish a wide variety of interior and exterior work, far more than what I do.

That being said, I am curious as to why you have decided not to try using Gardz with only a roller to seal just one new drywall surface prior to painting. If my memory serves me correctly, from what you have posted of your experience in spraying Gardz, that did not seem to work for you as far as sealing NC prior to painting. I suggested that you "roll" Gardz as per the instructions on the can and TDS to see how that works as it has always seemed to work very well for me. You mentioned that you might try it on one wall of an unfinished garage on the same project as well as trying something different on the other walls for comparison. I am assuming that that did not end up happening, at least I don't recall you mentioning that you did undertake doing that.

Now, you may have good reasons such as time constraints and efficiency not to roll Gardz the way I do as per the instructions on the can and TDS . I certainly would not ask you to adopt painting practices that are unprofitable for you. The only thing I was suggesting to you was to try to use Gardz on NC in the same manner I do such that you could see how well it seals the surface, how easily it makes applying the paint, how it affords leaving a long wet edge instead of the paint being sucked up into the drywall before it can be evened out and what a uniform finish it will leave, especially with higher sheens. If you don't think that there are any reasons to still find these things out, who am I to say you are missing out on discovering a tool that might come in handy for you down the line?

Perhaps normal drywall primer works well enough for you over new drywall, but you cannot tell me that it works better than Gardz rolled on as per instructions. I have done both and I know what the difference is both in applying the top coats and in how the final product looks. I am not by any means saying that sealing NC with Gardz is the most economical way to go, but when you get that one wall with merciless backlighting showing problems with uniformity of coat, you might want something in your arsenal to help correct it. If you already have that, then just ignore all the foregoing.

futtyos


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

futtyos said:


> Woodco, from what I have read of your posts here, I respect your ability as a painting contractor with a fairly broad knowledge of how to use materials and various tools of the trade to accomplish a wide variety of interior and exterior work, far more than what I do.
> 
> That being said, I am curious as to why you have decided not to try using Gardz with only a roller to seal just one new drywall surface prior to painting. If my memory serves me correctly, from what you have posted of your experience in spraying Gardz, that did not seem to work for you as far as sealing NC prior to painting. I suggested that you "roll" Gardz as per the instructions on the can and TDS to see how that works as it has always seemed to work very well for me. You mentioned that you might try it on one wall of an unfinished garage on the same project as well as trying something different on the other walls for comparison. I am assuming that that did not end up happening, at least I don't recall you mentioning that you did undertake doing that.
> 
> ...


If GARDZ was pigmented, I think it would be more popular as a drywall sealer/treatment. I am apprehensive when it comes to applying a finish coat over a clear base. Especially when it reveals different tones in terms of patched areas over, bare drywall, or a previously painted surface. I have more confidence painting over a solid primer white than a clear.

I've had this experience trying to apply some epoxy coatings over spot primed items. The darker unprimed areas always seemed to show through.

And although GARDZ is a tremendous bare surface treatment, not many painters want to go that extra step of applying a pigmented primer over the top of it.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Apples vs oranges?*



CApainter said:


> If GARDZ was pigmented, I think it would be more popular as a drywall sealer/treatment. I am apprehensive when it comes to applying a finish coat over a clear base. Especially when it reveals different tones in terms of patched areas over, bare drywall, or a previously painted surface. I have more confidence painting over a solid primer white than a clear.
> 
> I've had this experience trying to apply some epoxy coatings over spot primed items. The darker unprimed areas always seemed to show through.
> 
> And although GARDZ is a tremendous bare surface treatment, not many painters want to go that extra step of applying a pigmented primer over the top of it.


CApainter, with all due respect, can you compare your scenario of A) applying an epoxy coating over spot-primed areas (something you have experienced doing) to B) prepping a whole ceiling or wall with Gardz as directed on the can and TDS, then painting the Gardzed surface with 2 coats of a good ceiling or wall paint (something it appears that you have not actually experienced doing)?

I have noticed a difference between finish coats going over spots on a wall that have been primed vs a wall whose porosity has been evened out by Gardz applied as directed. Perhaps it will not work for all paints and all sheens, but so far, Gardz has worked very well for me in getting an even coverage and sheen on the jobs I have done. I don't use Gardz all the time by any means, but when I am worried about how critical backlighting will affect the final product, Gardz does the job.

If you haven't tried Gardz as per the directions, it is my opinion that you don't know what you are missing. Now, I could be wrong, but at least I can say that I have seen the difference between using and not using Gardz as I have described above.

futtyos


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

Why would I want to put 2 coats of Gardz on new drywall that is to be painted, when I can put 1 coat of PPG 6-2 and be done with it? If the finish color is a deeper tone I just shoot some Universal into it to get close.

A high-end contractor who I worked for would insist on putting 2 sometimes 3 coats of Gardz on new rock that was to be hung because he didn't trust that it covered properly!

Back in the 90's we used a lot of BM Wallcovering Prep which had a bluish green tint to it, and also one with white tint made by Roman's. With products that have color you can actually see if you've done a good job priming, not so with Gardz.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

futtyos said:


> Woodco, from what I have read of your posts here, I respect your ability as a painting contractor with a fairly broad knowledge of how to use materials and various tools of the trade to accomplish a wide variety of interior and exterior work, far more than what I do.
> 
> That being said, I am curious as to why you have decided not to try using Gardz with only a roller to seal just one new drywall surface prior to painting. If my memory serves me correctly, from what you have posted of your experience in spraying Gardz, that did not seem to work for you as far as sealing NC prior to painting. I suggested that you "roll" Gardz as per the instructions on the can and TDS to see how that works as it has always seemed to work very well for me. You mentioned that you might try it on one wall of an unfinished garage on the same project as well as trying something different on the other walls for comparison. I am assuming that that did not end up happening, at least I don't recall you mentioning that you did undertake doing that.
> 
> ...


Short answer: Because if its NC, Im spraying the primer. Im not backrolling it unless Im specced to, and the GC is paying me to do it. As for the garage in this house, its still raw, and moved in, and I think Im gonna get away with not even doing it. This company ran out of money, and They STILL arent done with a lot of trim, and the homeowners moved in four months ago. They are trying to keep me as a sub, so they did a ton of my touch up themselves, to make up for the crap they put me through. They just paid me to come in and spray a few things they finally built though. 

And yes, I've rolled gardz on a few retextured wall in there to paint, and it worked fine, but no better than any other primer. Im sure its more waterproof, and durable, but I dont really care. I will say that gardz is really fast to prime with, since its so thin, so there is that. I generally mix 123 or seal grip with the gardz, cuz it makes it dry faster, and it gives it a white tint.

You keep talking about "uniformity of sheen" I dont understand your issue there. I have NEVER had an issue with sheen uniformity except with certain matte paints. Every wall I've ever painted looks the same whether I primed it with gardz or just did two topcoats over raw texture. My whole reason for priming is to save a few bucks on paint, and because Im expected to. It makes no difference in the overall look of the wall, if you ask me.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

futtyos said:


> CApainter, with all due respect, can you compare your scenario of A) applying an epoxy coating over spot-primed areas (something you have experienced doing) to B) prepping a whole ceiling or wall with Gardz as directed on the can and TDS, then painting the Gardzed surface with 2 coats of a good ceiling or wall paint (something it appears that you have not actually experienced doing)?
> 
> I have noticed a difference between finish coats going over spots on a wall that have been primed vs a wall whose porosity has been evened out by Gardz applied as directed. Perhaps it will not work for all paints and all sheens, but so far, Gardz has worked very well for me in getting an even coverage and sheen on the jobs I have done. I don't use Gardz all the time by any means, but when I am worried about how critical backlighting will affect the final product, Gardz does the job.
> 
> ...


Believe me, I've used GARDZ exactly as directed. Hence the accolades I've given it. 

But what I'm describing has little to do with GARDZ's performance, as much as it has to do with the psychological effect of painting over a clear base coat. In other words, how many painters out there prefer using Zinsser Bulleye Shellac to treat surfaces rather than using the pigmented BIN when essentially, they're the same thing?


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Psychology aside*



CApainter said:


> Believe me, I've used GARDZ exactly as directed. Hence the accolades I've given it.
> 
> But what I'm describing has little to do with GARDZ's performance, as much as it has to do with the psychological effect of painting over a clear base coat. In other words, how many painters out there prefer using Zinsser Bulleye Shellac to treat surfaces rather than using the pigmented BIN when essentially, they're the same thing?


CApainter, when I saw the results of paint over properly applied Gardz, whatever psychological hesitations I may have had completely disappeared. Gardz seems, at least to me, to increase the sq ft coverage of the paint as basically none of the water in the paint is sucked up into the surface, far better than any white pigmented primers I have used. This allows for the best wet edge I have ever experienced and enables a gallon of paint to go further than under all of the primers I have used.

I have to admit that it does feel strange to start painting over new drywall that has been Gardzed and watch it cover in almost one coat. Other than a sheen, the drywall and mud look just like, well, drywall and mud, not like a white, primed surface that most of us are used to painting over.

As to comparing clear and pigmented shellac to Gardz and, say, 123, I think something more is going on here than just a visual effect. I am not a chemist and have not done any laboratory experiments on this, but I have to think that a clear, water-based sealer of Gardz' viscosity is going to penetrate drywall paper, mud and certainly any residual dust on the surface far better than a water based white pigmented primer will. I have a feeling that clear shellac will not penetrate new drywall paper and mud as well as Gardz does, but I have not done any testing on that. I do know that it is far easier for me to use Gardz than shellac, especially with cleanup.

I do like to have white BIN on hand as it really comes in handy when you want to avoid using water.

To be fair, I have to say that I mostly do goofy little jobs that require messing around to correct problems. If I were doing a lot of big meat and potato jobs like you and Woodco, Brushman4, lilpaintchi and others here are doing or have done, I probably would be listening more to you guys and otherwise keeping my mouth shut. I guess the resilient floor finishing part of me keeps me really enthused about a concrete sealer turned drywall sealer as in Draw-Tite and Gardz.

futtyos


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

futtyos said:


> CApainter, when I saw the results of paint over properly applied Gardz, whatever psychological hesitations I may have had completely disappeared. Gardz seems, at least to me, to increase the sq ft coverage of the paint as basically none of the water in the paint is sucked up into the surface, far better than any white pigmented primers I have used. This allows for the best wet edge I have ever experienced and enables a gallon of paint to go further than under all of the primers I have used.
> 
> I have to admit that it does feel strange to start painting over new drywall that has been Gardzed and watch it cover in almost one coat. Other than a sheen, the drywall and mud look just like, well, drywall and mud, not like a white, primed surface that most of us are used to painting over.
> 
> ...


Frankly, I don't even compare GARDZ to other primers like BIN, BE 123, Fresh Start, or PVA. It's in a league of it's own in terms of bare drywall treatment. I do think GARDZ offers better sheen holdout than most other drywall primers I've used. But as someone mentioned upstream, it can be pretty pungent compared to other practical options. And, it isn't necessarily application friendly. 

As I said earlier, if it were pigmented, I'd probably use it more.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Why isn't gardz the most heavily stocked primer if it is so good? I'm not doubting the quality of the product, just why it isn't stocked and heavily promoted by the box stores? They promote the hell out of kilz and 123. But i rarely see gardz promoted at all, in fact i think if i walked in to most of the box stores around here the sales people wouldn't even know what it is, let alone what it does. This is the main reason i don't stock it. Maybe 1 out of 20 painters in my area ever use it. I like the product myself, but if painters aren't going to use it no one, even the box stores, is going to stock very much of it.

To me this is a perfect example of what the box stores have done to our industry. To hell with the products that work, if they can make more profit off the products that are mediocre at best than that is what they are going to sell.

So why would i take it upon myself to stock and try to sell Gardz, especially if painters are just going to buy into the BS the box stores are telling them. It's just another overpriced product that i am trying to sell in the minds of people around here. It doesn't matter that it will cure 90% of the primer issues they have, it is just an overpriced product because the box stores tell them what they want to hear about 123. And that is that 123 will do everything Gardz will do at 2/3 the price. 

Conversely, a true high quality drywall primer WILL actually do everything that gardz does for bare drywall. But painters aren't willing to pay more for a quality drywall primer either. Why would they? Drywall primer is just such and such a gallon at Menard's etc. Why is the primer at the independent store $6 a gallon more?


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

PACman said:


> Why isn't gardz the most heavily stocked primer if it is so good? I'm not doubting the quality of the product, just why it isn't stocked and heavily promoted by the box stores? They promote the hell out of kilz and 123. But i rarely see gardz promoted at all, in fact i think if i walked in to most of the box stores around here the sales people wouldn't even know what it is, let alone what it does. This is the main reason i don't stock it. Maybe 1 out of 20 painters in my area ever use it. I like the product myself, but if painters aren't going to use it no one, even the box stores, is going to stock very much of it.
> 
> To me this is a perfect example of what the box stores have done to our industry. To hell with the products that work, if they can make more profit off the products that are mediocre at best than that is what they are going to sell.
> 
> ...


They used to sell at @ Lowes and Home Depot, now they don't, not sure why but it had to do with VOC stuff or something. Home Depot will still have a 5 at your door in 2 days which is good..


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

futtyos said:


> CApainter, when I saw the results of paint over properly applied Gardz, whatever psychological hesitations I may have had completely disappeared. Gardz seems, at least to me, to increase the sq ft coverage of the paint as basically none of the water in the paint is sucked up into the surface, far better than any white pigmented primers I have used. This allows for the best wet edge I have ever experienced and enables a gallon of paint to go further than under all of the primers I have used.
> 
> I have to admit that it does feel strange to start painting over new drywall that has been Gardzed and watch it cover in almost one coat. Other than a sheen, the drywall and mud look just like, well, drywall and mud, not like a white, primed surface that most of us are used to painting over.
> 
> ...


If one has or acquires any sense of color, having 5 or 6 tubes of universal on hand and you can tint whatever primer you have to get close to the finish color!


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## illusionsgame (Aug 1, 2010)

*Messing with tings*



Brushman4 said:


> If one has or acquires any sense of color, having 5 or 6 tubes of universal on hand and you can tint whatever primer you have to get close to the finish color!



I have seen bottles of tint on sale now: a new thing where I am. I would not touch with 12' extension pole. 

Have you actually tried this? Was it awful?


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Where to buy Gardz*



PACman said:


> Why isn't gardz the most heavily stocked primer if it is so good? I'm not doubting the quality of the product, just why it isn't stocked and heavily promoted by the box stores? They promote the hell out of kilz and 123. But i rarely see gardz promoted at all, in fact i think if i walked in to most of the box stores around here the sales people wouldn't even know what it is, let alone what it does. This is the main reason i don't stock it. Maybe 1 out of 20 painters in my area ever use it. I like the product myself, but if painters aren't going to use it no one, even the box stores, is going to stock very much of it.
> 
> To me this is a perfect example of what the box stores have done to our industry. To hell with the products that work, if they can make more profit off the products that are mediocre at best than that is what they are going to sell.
> 
> ...


In the Chicagoland area there are 3 big box stores, Home Depot, Lowe's and Menards. Only Menards carries Gardz - for 21.00 + tax. The last gallon I bought at menards sat in my house for about 3 months before I needed to use it. I shook it up and poured it into a 1 gallon plastic bottle that previously held windshield wiper fluid, something I have done numerous times in the past without any problems (Gardz is so thin I like being able to easily pour it from a bottle than from a paint can.). When I went to use it, it left little curdled balls all over the surfaces I was sealing. I was able to wipe them off with a wet sponge. Enough Gardz was left to seal the surface and my paint went on very well.

I had to use Gardz last Saturday, so I stopped by my local paint store. They sell Gardz for about 25.00 a gallon. I asked how long the stock sits around. The manager said that there is a fast turn around as it flies out of the store. I used it and no curdled balls. I am wondering if the earlier Gardz I mentioned reacted to some residue left of the windshield wiper fluid or if it was from a bad batch. For the distance I have to go to the nearest Menards, my 1/2 mile trip to the local paint store is worth spending the extra $4.00.

I am looking forward to sometime trying Draw-Tite, both clear and white pigmented. Both are available for a short 75 mile trip up to Milwaukee at about 35.00 per gallon. 

futtyos


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

illusionsgame said:


> I have seen bottles of tint on sale now: a new thing where I am. I would not touch with 12' extension pole.
> 
> Have you actually tried this? Was it awful?


Are you asking me, have I tinted primers and paint with Universal?


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Fructose. Your infatuated with that guards eh?. Haha. Great stuff. I agree. But for problem areas only I would say. Most people like a coloured primer so they can see if the wall is uniform or in need of any repairs after the primer coat.
You don't want to be doing too many repairs after your first coat of paint gos on and it would be impossible to tell with a clear primer..


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