# Have a new issue with my sprayer



## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

It seems as though I am not getting all that much pressure when I first squeeze the trigger, then the pump kicks in to build pressure and it then has the pressure it needs, but when the pressure is used it again goes back down. I haven't just turned the pressure up like in the past, I have new packings, new needle & assembly, new filter in the gun, the prime switch is new within the last 4 months also.. and this is happening. Making me pretty hot under the collar because it should not be acting like this.

it is an EP2105 Spraytec sprayer, and the gun is a Graco II contractor gun (older style). I have a whip and 50' hose. 

What can it be? I clean the pump religiously. Let me know what you think, if I need to give more info.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

How clogged is the rock guard?

Might need a Henweigh Nate.


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## brushmstr (Feb 15, 2009)

About 3 lbs.


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

Well I got a new bottle of clitorisdrops and that usually cures all. I am going to run some laquer thinner through it.. it may be one of the checkballs not seating properly.


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## PrecisionPainting (Feb 3, 2009)

in the 4 months how many gals have you went through?? To me sounds like the packings


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## Andyman (Feb 21, 2009)

Whenever I have had problems with pressure build it has been the packings or the rock guard...


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## JCM (Jan 6, 2009)

PrecisionPainting said:


> in the 4 months how many gals have you went through?? To me sounds like the packings


X2. Is there paint coming up the rod? If not, it isn't the packing. After it loads up, listen for a hissing by the upper and lower ball. Could be a bad ball or seat. What year is the pump? I had a 1095 with a bad pressure sensor that would overload then stabilize, I'm not sure if this could be your problem but if it is a newer pump the board should have a diagnostic LED to give you problem codes just like a car. It won't give codes for the usual suspects though.


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

PrecisionPainting said:


> in the 4 months how many gals have you went through?? To me sounds like the packings


honestly not that much.. maybe 200gal.. somewhere in there. Not that much.



Andyman said:


> Whenever I have had problems with pressure build it has been the packings or the rock guard...


If the lacquer thinner doesn't work then I will pull it all apart again.


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

I don't use a rock guard. I strain before I use a new five of paint.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

nEighter said:


> I don't use a rock guard. I strain before I use a new five of paint.



More than likely some build up has occured on one of the two balls in your packings. 
You really should use the rock catcher screen. even when you strain your paint there is still things that can end up getting sucked right into your pump.


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

It used to have one.. don't get me wrong, but the screen became all jacked up, so I just tore the screen part off







Like I said I just strain, and put the lid back on and stick my fill tube in there. 

Sean you think that laq thinner would get the crud off? The packings are plastic in these pumps.. don't want to use anything that can melt them.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

I think Lacquer will get the crud off. I am not sure on whether it will melt your plastic packings though. I would think they should be tough enough to handle it. If not then you could bust the pump apart and clean the balls manually.

I would replace the rock catcher anyways it is just a 5 dollar part.


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

JCM said:


> X2. Is there paint coming up the rod? If not, it isn't the packing. After it loads up, listen for a hissing by the upper and lower ball. Could be a bad ball or seat. What year is the pump? I had a 1095 with a bad pressure sensor that would overload then stabilize, I'm not sure if this could be your problem but if it is a newer pump the board should have a diagnostic LED to give you problem codes just like a car. It won't give codes for the usual suspects though.


Sorry didn't see your post before :blink: No hissing that I can tell, and it is a spraytec and there is no real electronics on it other than the on/off switch and pressure adjuster, pretty much a straight pump. My main problem is the lull in between pressure strokes.. I'm thinking one of them (checkballs) is bleeding off. I don't know, it has just happened this weekend and didn't get a chance to REALLY go through it other than cleaning it a couple times with scortching hot water till it was pumping clean water.



Workaholic said:


> I would replace the rock catcher anyways it is just a 5 dollar part.


will do


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## coastalpainting (Feb 15, 2009)

If you switch materials alot from latex to oil, most likely its the check ball. that sht gets gumed up never really gets clean. unless you drop the d:thumbsup:ck clean the balls with lacquer thinner. slap it back together ,look at me iam a painter again


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Take your whip off and then try it,a whip is like using and extra 100 feet of hose or more.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

this is a dumb question, but do you use a enough throat seal?


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

johnpaint said:


> Take your whip off and then try it,a whip is like using and extra 100 feet of hose or more.


Why do you say this?


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Well I guess it really depends on what size diameter the hose whip it is, but if you are using a very small diameter hose it takes a lot more force to get the heavy latex through. Also as they get older the hose whip gets more narrower because of corrosion. I think he ment to say the pressure started good, but went down and then the pump worked hard to get it back up.to me lit sounds like to much restriction in the hose or the pickup tube/screen was blocked.I have just had problem in the past with both.I don't use any whips anymore because of this


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

That is what i thought you meant. I have a 695 with the problems you described and i have a 25' 3/16th hose on it. I think i will take it off and see if that helps. 
I have been using it as a trim sprayer because it does not have to work as hard doing trim. I repacked it and it still did not make a difference. New rock catcher, new manifold filter and new spraygun.

My other 695 has been spraying all the heavy work.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Yeah, between that hose and making sure the pickup screen is getting enough flow. every few weeks I will take my drill and a small bit and clean out the pickup screen this really helps because as much pressure the airless pump puts out the suction pressure is very small, after a while it starts to such air and then you have those times when you have to wait for the pressure to build up again.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Yep my older 695 seems like it is sucking air. like i said not so much using it as a trim sprayer but when spraying ceilings or what ever it starts cycling really hard to catch up. I have tried just about everything but not taking that long thin hose off. Good idea John.:thumbsup:


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## JCM (Jan 6, 2009)

I bet ya it's one of the balls. If the upper is sticking,scored or the seat is mashed up when the pump cycles there will be pressure loss due to the product just passing through and not compressing and if it is the lower ball or seat it is blowing it back into the bucket. So...I'm thinking that the seats may need to be flipped over and take a good look at the balls for scratches. It sounds like the pump is building the pressure but is slowly escaping. Does that sound about right? What does it do if you let it build and then let it sit? if it eventually cycles again then there is definitely pressure escaping at the pump somewhere. Good luck.


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

johnpaint said:


> this is a dumb question, but do you use a enough throat seal?


Not really a spot for throat seal, unless I turn it upside down and then... :blink: not really sure it would go where it needs to.












JCM said:


> I bet ya it's one of the balls. If the upper is sticking,scored or the seat is mashed up when the pump cycles there will be pressure loss due to the product just passing through and not compressing and if it is the lower ball or seat it is blowing it back into the bucket. So...I'm thinking that the seats may need to be flipped over and take a good look at the balls for scratches. It sounds like the pump is building the pressure but is slowly escaping. Does that sound about right? What does it do if you let it build and then let it sit? if it eventually cycles again then there is definitely pressure escaping at the pump somewhere. Good luck.


Yeah that sounds about right JCM. It WILL cycle again after a few minutes. When I repacked it, I turned all the seats around and they were fresh, prior to me repacking though.. I went a good 2 yrs without doing a thing to her. When I finally did repack.. it was toast though. NOTHING like it is now. I think there is just goo built up.










Here are the packings. Weird :blink: I know.. no leather, just those plastic rings with springs in em, and some black pvc/plastic pieces... I will have to take her all apart and soak in laquer thinner but want to run the thinner through it tomorrow first. I need to get the pickup tube cleaned out something fierce! I will let you guys know what I find out though.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

> Not really a spot for throat seal,


:blink::blink::whistling2:

Its a good thing you're so likable or I would fear for your life after that statement

Do you see those 3 slits in front of the piston? You MUST put throat seal in there, on the piston. It will draw it down and lubricate, swell and seat the packings. Without it everything dries out from friction and ruins your packings.

Also, don't run 'scalding hot' water through a pump. The parts are not designed for heat, just cold. Warm is ok but hot is not a good idea.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Bender said:


> :blink::blink::whistling2:
> 
> Its a good thing you're so likable or I would fear for your life after that statement
> 
> ...


The throat seal is pretty important.


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## coastalpainting (Feb 15, 2009)

I bet ya it's one of the balls. If the upper is sticking,scored or the seat is mashed up when the pump cycles there will be pressure loss due to the product just passing through and not compressing and if it is the lower ball or seat it is blowing it back into the bucket. So...I'm thinking that the seats may need to be flipped over and take a good look at the balls for scratches. It sounds like the pump is building the pressure but is slowly escaping. Does that sound about right? What does it do if you let it build and then let it sit? if it eventually cycles again then there is definitely pressure escaping at the pump somewhere. Good luck.
Attached Thumbnails 

__________________
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It's about evolution, I'll try any technique twice. 


:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: I would agree with what he said nice reply


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Check for breaches in the siphon tube. May be sucking air. Duct tape is a quick fix.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Make sure the seal you use is made for rubber seals, I don't think you can use Graco seal.By the way I use to have one of these pumps I really liked it until I think another company bought them out and after that I bought a whole piston assembly and it lasted only about a month. I tore it apart and the piston was worn completely out. I could not believe it.I took the part back and they would not refund my money so I just gave the pump away.


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

****update****

Got a gallon of lacquer thinner today and ran it through (filtering it each time) roughly 20times. I now know there is something seriously wrong. It is building the pressure as it should, but the second it kicks off it ERRRGs.. piston moves and it loses a little bit of pressure. It seems to hold pressure better than it did.. but there is still a loss of pressure over all. So First thing in the morning I am tearing that  apart and figuring what the ell' is wrong with it.  


John I hear you love the pump but it has been really needy this whole last year. I ran the damn thing for 1.5yrs without any rebuilds.. then I repack it and it wears out this quickly?:blink: I will see once I open it up. I better not need a packing kit already, I will be massively pissed.


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

JCM hey man thanks for the exploded view pic man :thumbsup:


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## JCM (Jan 6, 2009)

nEighter said:


> JCM hey man thanks for the exploded view pic man :thumbsup:


 No problem, Thats what we are here for. I was actualy thinking of bumping this to see what the outcome was. Keep us posted.


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## ecopainter (Mar 15, 2009)

Workaholic said:


> Yep my older 695 seems like it is sucking air. like i said not so much using it as a trim sprayer but when spraying ceilings or what ever it starts cycling really hard to catch up. I have tried just about everything but not taking that long thin hose off. Good idea John.:thumbsup:


 
A little late on the response, but just wanted to give you guys some info. I had the same exact problems with my sprayer as well. I always use Acetone to clean my pump which I don't think wears the packings down like laquer thinner. The last time I cleaned my dck, my pump was sucking air as well (couldn't catch up, didn't build full pressure, etc). So I wrapped some plastic around the entire dipstick, primed the pump, and sprayed for about 5 minutes before taking the plastic off. So this might help ya a little bit. 

Also to the original poster:
Has your pump been in freezing conditions? If so it might be your transducer and that is not fun to replace


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

Sure will. Hope it is a stuck checkball or some type of seating problem.. The repair kit said to not over tighten #12 on that pic.. the piston seat retainer. I wonder if I didn't get it tight enough, or possibly overtightened it.. not sure but it is going to be one thing I check for sure. I have decided to paint this one like "the money maker" and put this as my mascot pic on the side










calling this one "the trouble maker"


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

ecopainter said:


> A little late on the response, but just wanted to give you guys some info. I had the same exact problems with my sprayer as well. I always use Acetone to clean my pump which I don't think wears the packings down like laquer thinner. The last time I cleaned my dck, my pump was sucking air as well (couldn't catch up, didn't build full pressure, etc). So I wrapped some plastic around the entire dipstick, primed the pump, and sprayed for about 5 minutes before taking the plastic off. So this might help ya a little bit.
> 
> Also to the original poster:
> *Has your pump been in freezing conditions? If so it might be your transducer and that is not fun to replace*


MAYBE a night or three.. MAYBE. What is the transducer exactly?


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

When you tore it apart the first time, those parts that were left over, should not have been left over.


:jester:

I never have trouble with my pumps...until I am all set up and ready to begin making money, or the HO is standing over my shoulder rolling their eyes.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

I noticed that the repair kit does not have a piston. If the piston is worn you will need another one.


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

Don't say that john...


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Yeah man that's why I just bought the whole pump assembly on that one.


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

haven't got crap for sleep all week. Slept in today, so I will have to wait till tomorrow to bust it open. I have a bunch of rolling to do today on a custom paint. Talk at you guys later tonight... LATE.


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

Well decided I didn't want to open it up to find that I need a part that was a bajillion dollars.. and just decided to limp it along through this next lil bit I needed to paint. It wasn't keeping pressure for ANYTHING so I crank it ALL the way up and it worked just fine. I had ungodly amounts of pressure, but at least I was getting it done, and I adjusted for the extra power. Strange though that it was building and _KEEPING_ the pressure when it was turned way up..









Anyway ended up running out of paint and had to switch 5's. On the new one it just wouldn't hold pressure







. Damn. I had to open it up now. 

For everything it felt like a checkball was stuck, beating on the pump freed it up, up till then that worked. So I knew it had to be that.

I got it opened up and sure nuff a dried piece of paint nugget came out. The check ball is scored MAJOR. Always wondered.. if a paint nugg was stuck in there and pressure is turned up.. is this the reason for the scores in the ball? Like it doesn't seat right so it has to work up and down in an area not designed for it to be so it wears there? Also, is there any place I can order JUST THE CHECKBALL? I cleaned the lower portion out.. 

Really weird but the inner liner piece of the upper (looks like black delron plastic) decides it was going to just pop up like a turkey deal when the turkey is done. I was like














!!

I pulled it out and it was a mess of latex that had reacted with the laquer thinner. I cleaned out the piece and ran the pump upside down to check out the piston. The piston had a thin coating of dried paint on the outside, so did the inner area the piston moves up and down in. I "think" it is alright.. didn't actually take the whole thing apart, just enough to get it running again for this one job. Oh and today was day from hell.. from this, to fighting the hose.. to the job going from a simple 3 hr to 5.5  yeah.. wasn't fun.

I got it back together and ran it, it built the pressure okay, and sometimes it was perfect, other times not so much. I can't isolate the problem just yet cause I need to get a new checkball, and I need to go through all the pieces, clean them up and put it back together running it for a bit to determine if it truly was JUST the checkball.

Oh man I know that was long winded. I have just had my fill for the day. Oh one last thing. I bought this 3 yrs ago from a paintstore. It was their rental and told me if I would pick it up from them at a damn good price they would clean it up and repack it. 99% of my problems with this thing have been paint coming out of the pickup tube and getting lodged in the lower checkball, and if it ended up getting past that one.. the upper. I am going to take the pickup tube off and soak it over night in the laquer thinner to hopefully break all that crap in there up once and for all. I clean it religiously, everyone who rented it didn't.

I am off to bed. Wake up early for more


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## JCM (Jan 6, 2009)

It is starting to sound more and more like the balls. With the higher pressure it's slamming them into place. Your not letting this thing run dry and cycle are you? Thats bad, that'll kill the balls really quick.
I think I recall that it isn't pissing material right? If it isn't then the chances are the packings, piston and cylinder (in the case of gracco add rod in there) are OK but mind you I am no expert with SprayTech. 
Last I checked I was only able to get balls from the kit.
In the pic I circled where you add TSL and that is also where the material will piss from. TSL will prevent paint from drying to the piston and damaging the cylinder walls, piston,packings and rod. A must do.
Hope this helps ya some.


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

the one I have doesn't have the three air holes, it has a little "cup" now I know why  Man. I will get some TSL tomorrow and see if that helps any. You think the thin layer on the piston has damaged the "sleeves" and cylinder? On occasion it has gone "dry" as in me upstairs and it going off.. me running down and shutting it off. It happens every once in a while, but not all the time. I found the swivel pickup online for around $78.00. Piston rod was only $84.00 new. That is a relief. I can see what I can do to get the best price. I would like to know if there is another way to get check balls though. It DEFINITELY needs the lower.


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

Paint rep called Spraytech. They have the balls, $3.00/per and had three in stock. I grabbed them all. Shipping is $10.00 ... more than the damn balls.

Should have them by weeks end.


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## Mark (Oct 1, 2008)

Workaholic said:


> I think Lacquer will get the crud off. I am not sure on whether it will melt your plastic packings though. I would think they should be tough enough to handle it. If not then you could bust the pump apart and clean the balls manually.
> 
> I would replace the rock catcher anyways it is just a 5 dollar part.


 
(what he said) ^laquer thinner has worked for me in the past.:thumbsup:


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

nEighter said:


> the one I have doesn't have the three air holes, it has a little "cup" now I know why  Man. I will get some TSL tomorrow and see if that helps any. You think the thin layer on the piston has damaged the "sleeves" and cylinder? On occasion it has gone "dry" as in me upstairs and it going off.. me running down and shutting it off. It happens every once in a while, but not all the time. I found the swivel pickup online for around $78.00. Piston rod was only $84.00 new. That is a relief. I can see what I can do to get the best price. I would like to know if there is another way to get check balls though. It DEFINITELY needs the lower.


Man you have been doing that thing dirty, not running a inlet screen and no tls.


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

OH yeah I bought an inlet screen. It hasn't always been without one. I got tired of always cleaning it out, and adopted straining the paint before using.







Oh well. But yes TSL I haven't  So yeah I deserve all the grief I am getting from her unfortunately. We will see if I can save it though. Think the check balls saved the packings this time.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

:whistling2:


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## jcaraveo (Feb 9, 2009)

i say is the whip ,they help a lot for u handf but about the paint they do take pressure


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

I will need it for a pinch this weekend. Today I added the TSL and just ran it for a minute to work it down the piston. I guess I could take the whip off and try without that saturday.


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## JCM (Jan 6, 2009)

jcaraveo said:


> i say is the whip ,they help a lot for u handf but about the paint they do take pressure



BlueMax II specifications:


Maximum working pressure rated at 3300 psi (227 bar).
EP2105 Spraytec-
50 ft hose
Max hose length 300ft 3000 psi max 

I don't think that is the problem.


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

Hey update. I took it all apart today. Piston was in good shape. The checkballs (all 3) came in, cost me $3.29/per and then Spraytech charged $15.00 to ship them via UPS to the SW store. THAT IS BULLSH*T! The store "split" the S/H charge so I only had to pay $7.50 for it  but I was thankfull they did that at least. 

Took everything apart aside from the packings (just cleaned them up) and put her all back together and she works. Taking it all apart was good because I cleaned up all the misc. paint buildups and after this next week will hopefully be able to bust it all apart and clean/paint it. Thinking about painting this one's "striping" yellow instead of the red of the money maker.

When I have the money I will be ordering a new pick-up tube. I am not going to be messing with this old one much longer.

Can't wait to try her out. Didn't get a chance to paint with her, just clean water and lots of it. 

Thanks for all the help guys. I have muh TSL at muh hip now.. cocked and loaded :thumbsup:


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## IHATE_HOMEDEPOT (May 27, 2008)

It's funny you know that the check balls are just ball bearings. I wonder if a guy could just go to a machine shop to purchase the same damn thing? Also the stainless steel bb's might be better,however knowing the way corps. work it is probably just a little bigger/smaller than what you need.

Cleaning is never a bad idea especially during down time.Which reminds me of a story my friend told me about the corn farmers in Nebraska. Their harvest time is really important to go smoothly and there down time is heavy in the winter and so they spend that time maintaining their machinery.


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

IHATE_HOMEDEPOT said:


> It's funny you know that the check balls are just ball bearings. I wonder if a guy could just go to a machine shop to purchase the same damn thing? Also the stainless steel bb's might be better,however knowing the way corps. work it is probably just a little bigger/smaller than what you need.
> 
> Cleaning is never a bad idea especially during down time.Which reminds me of a story my friend told me about the corn farmers in Nebraska. Their harvest time is really important to go smoothly and there down time is heavy in the winter and so they spend that time maintaining their machinery.



Yep. The one on the lower end is a 7/16 dia Stainless Steel ball. There is another # I will post later on. That reminds me.. I need to source these so I can buy a friggin box for $20 instead of 3. I would advise anyone to do this. Don't go through the companies to get them. You can find out the size and hardness and get them elsewhere. 

When I was 15 I lived with my uncle in a SMALL town in south central Kansas. I worked at his weilding shop. We worked on all types of impliments that farmers brought in that were BUSTED!! HUGE bolts totally rounded off from the constant movement through the field brushing up against plants/stalks. Was amazing some of the stuff that was brought in broke. HUGE chunks of metal ripped in half. THICK castings simply cracked in half . Yeah I am going to do this one better than the money maker :thumbsup: Oh and clearcoat it afterward.


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

Well she is holding pressure like a champ. No lulls and solid performance. In fact she is sounding like she did when I first got her. She half pumps sometimes, builds pressure and shuts off AS I am spraying.. that is with me upstairs and the pump down. SO in short she is working REALLY well. As much as it has sucked, it is what it is, and hopefully this month I can order a new pick-up tube. That way the crap from this one won't constantly come out blocking the lower ball from seating.

Pics of the rebuild and paint to come...


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## JCM (Jan 6, 2009)

nEighter said:


> Well she is holding pressure like a champ. No lulls and solid performance. In fact she is sounding like she did when I first got her. She half pumps sometimes, builds pressure and shuts off AS I am spraying.. that is with me upstairs and the pump down. SO in short she is working REALLY well. As much as it has sucked, it is what it is, and hopefully this month I can order a new pick-up tube. That way the crap from this one won't constantly come out blocking the lower ball from seating.
> 
> Pics of the rebuild and paint to come...


Sorry I missed this and I am a bit late. I'm glad you got it all fixed up and glad I could help.


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

oh it's cool. Thanks again! :thumbsup:


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