# How would you attack this challenge?



## Bullyblues (Oct 25, 2017)

Just like the post says. How would you go about this. Only painting steel beams, from red to black. Insulation will need to be protected as well those expensive windows and everything else. Obviously efficiency and quality are the main concerns. 36' at the peak so a boom lift will be necessary. I have my thoughts and have previous experience but im always looking for knowledge. Thanks


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

I'd floss 6mil plastic behind the metal, maybe reinforced with cardboard in select areas if needed, tape all seams, 6 mil plastic on floors reinforced with plywood everywhere you plan on turning, spray adhesive to seal plastic seams together, #30 roofing felt around perimeter of floor, spray adhesive on underside of felt to keep it stuck to plastic, then spray it all.


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## DanKyle (Oct 1, 2018)

That's a lot of masking! Might be a pain in the ass to mask along all the strapping but not sure how else you could do it.


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

If the sheeting isn't attached to the purlins I'd slip large pieces of cardboard under the purlins. I'd probably do two segments at a time to minimize amount of cardboard needed. Complete two sections, move to the next two. A segment being defined by the trusses, not the purlins.

If not able to slip anything under the purlins, I'd run. As far as I could, and as fast as I could!:biggrin:

Not a big fan of plastic on the floor....too much of a slip hazard.


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## kmp (Jan 30, 2011)

I have had g.c.'s ask me about that very same thing. I told them you should have asked me before you put the roof and walls on. I also told them, without giving them a price how crazy expensive it would be and they let it go. On that job it would be cost plus and brush and roll it. The drift and over spray potential with black paint is something I would not risk.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

I too would vote for brush/roll. The insulation is not likely attached in any way to the beams. Get some refrigerator boxes from an appliance store and rip them into wide enough strips to jam up between the beams and insulation. Bring in a rolling scaffold unit, drop the floor, and go to town. Those beams should roll out pretty nicely. There will be loads of up and down as well as shifting the cardboard (or whatever - guess even masking paper would work - which could just remain in place until the work is finished), so bid accordingly.


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## kmp (Jan 30, 2011)

Definitely need a boom lift. That much scaffolding is too much work. A tow behind electric or propane lift is the way to go in that pemb.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

I'd also suggest he might wanna consider spraying the steel & insulation white in order to minimize costs. It'd look nice and clean without breaking the bank.


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

I didn't make it clear in my earlier post, I'd be spraying. HVLP with 2 gal. pressure pot, in a lift.

I never got into electrostatic spraying, but this would be the ideal type of work for that. Of course you'd have a considerable investment in the equipment, as finding a rental unit would be tough in most locals. And most likely a bit of a learning curve. But once you bought the sprayer, you'd have a marketable niche service.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Lightningboy65 said:


> I didn't make it clear in my earlier post, I'd be spraying. HVLP with 2 gal. pressure pot, in a lift.
> 
> I never got into electrostatic spraying, but this would be the ideal type of work for that. Of course you'd have a considerable investment in the equipment, as finding a rental unit would be tough in most locals. And most likely a bit of a learning curve. But once you bought the sprayer, you'd have a marketable niche service.


Assume you have used an HVLP before. Personally, I'm afraid it might be too slow. A regular airless with FFLP tip would give about the same amount of overspray but with a much faster application rate. At least that's my take.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

The following is an assessment scale with a range from 1-10 (Ten being more time and effort)

The assessment is based on modest surface preparation and a one coat application. 

 Procedures for Brushing, Rolling, Spraying

Method- B/R/S
Access- 6/5/3
Surface Prep- 4/4/4 
Tape/Masking- 3/5/10
Floor covering- 2/5/10
Application- 8/5/3
Clean up- 3/4/10 


Totals 26/28/40


Scale does not fit right when posted. Brushing is the best approach. IMO.


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

RH said:


> Assume you have used an HVLP before. Personally, I'm afraid it might be too slow. A regular airless with FFLP tip would give about the same amount of overspray but with a much faster application rate. At least that's my take.


Yes, a time or two...for many years.:biggrin: Fine finish tips are ok too. Being I worked with HVLPs for at least 20 years before FF tips were available, I have oodles of HVLP experience. HVLP is still going to produce less over spray, merely due to the fact there is less paint coming out. Transfer efficiency of HVLP is still considerably greater than FF tip.

I agree a FF tip in an airless would be quicker. I guess it would depend on how much over spray the job would tolerate. I tend to dance with the girl that I came to the dance with, but in this case may be wrong. But it is what I would do. Either way, both methods would be quicker than brush/roller.


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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

spraying that vs brush+mini roller would take about double the time id estimate


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

honestly, with a lift, you can bang that out with brush and roller in no time. Especially if you had 2 guys up there..I wouldn't want to muck around with masking and sprayers. Although I would still have a couple squares of cardboard to slip under the metal. You don' want any overspray or brush drips on that insulation..
Now which product is the question?..


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

How high is the peak? From the pics it looks like a scissor lift would work. I vote with brush/roll and cardboard to protect the insulation.


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

Man, I'm getting beat up. I still say spraying would be quicker....I'm doing two coats though. I don't want any holidays! Dude has $$$, and I want to give him a top notch job. He sees those holidays, you ain't getting anymore work from him!!!


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## Fman (Aug 20, 2011)

Gwarel said:


> How high is the peak? From the pics it looks like a scissor lift would work. I vote with brush/roll and cardboard to protect the insulation.


It's 36' to the peak and with the deck being angled like that it's best to use a boom.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

I say two coats by hand...


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

The calculations I formulated suggest brushing. Cool, calm, and collected.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Heck, just rattle can it with some Rustoleum from HD. It’s even got primer in it.


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## Fman (Aug 20, 2011)

CApainter said:


> The calculations I formulated suggest brushing. Cool, calm, and collected.


I was wondering what they suggested...:vs_smirk:


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

RH said:


> Heck, just rattle can it with some Rustoleum from HD. It’s even got primer in it.


Does Behr make an equivalent???:vs_worry:


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

CApainter said:


> The calculations I formulated suggest brushing. Cool, calm, and collected.


Cool and collected maybe....calm is taking it a bit too far!

I've been looking through all my old text books from the Fine Finish Institute, and I can't find those formuli anywhere!


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Lightningboy65 said:


> Cool and collected maybe....calm is taking it a bit too far!
> 
> I've been looking through all my old text books from the Fine Finish Institute, and I can't find those formuli anywhere!



I find creating simple assessment charts help to quickly determine the best approach. For example:


Spraying would immediately seem like the best approach for the OP's task. But when you add a value to each process(a range between 1 and 10 for example) you see that although spraying is the quickest application, the logistics to get there will take far more time than say brushing.


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

CApainter said:


> I find creating simple assessment charts help to quickly determine the best approach. For example:
> 
> 
> Spraying would immediately seem like the best approach for the OP's task. But when you add a value to each process(a range between 1 and 10 for example) you see that although spraying is the quickest application, the logistics to get there will take far more time than say brushing.


Of course the number assigned to each task will vary depending on the individual painter's processes, skill set and equipment.

While it is a bit on the subjective side, I agree your system could be of use when considering methods to be used.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Lightningboy65 said:


> Of course the number assigned to each task will vary depending on the individual painter's processes, skill set and equipment.
> 
> While it is a bit on the subjective side, I agree your system could be of use when considering methods to be used.


 
My assessment and conclusion on application is strictly based on my own processes and production capabilities. It's more of a personal assessment. It's also based on a scope of work I created. "One coat with moderate surface preparation" (see value of 4 for surface preparation ).


Now, if I were to apply a two to three coat system, the value I gave for Floor Protection and Masking may be worth it when you consider the value I gave for brushing and rolling were over twice as high than for spraying.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Not to mention 

A: All the plastic/garbage required to mask all of that.gross.

B: 1 guy on the ground doing nothing but filling paint and moving sprayer. waste.

C: Will need atleast 75' -100' of hose.

D: Fear of overspray on insulation.

Why bother. Don't get me wrong. I love spraying when the time is right..It should still be priced as a brush and roll job, if you look at it that way it's win win.


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## diT (Jul 24, 2019)

2 gallon work pots with a mini roller


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Not to mention
> 
> A: All the plastic/garbage required to mask all of that.gross.
> 
> ...


Well, the sprayer would be in the lift. 2 gal. HVLP pressure pot.....wouldn't be refilling too much. No ground guy needed. Even with airless, when spraying from a lift, I'd rather take a smaller (ie 395) sprayer up in the lift with me than run a hose from the ground.


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## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

Unless the customer is wanting no stipple which would be crazy its a barn type building I would brush and roll it. Masking that would be a nightmare. It amazes me how fast a brush and roller can be when you take into account the minimal time required to protect everything. Protect the floor and start painting.


I'm guessing it would be equal time brush and roller vs spraying when you take into account all the masking. Material will be less on the brush and roller and roller. Not only paint but plastic tape and everything else involved. Plus the risk of spraying that is high if they dont want anything on the insulation. I had an old boss I asked him why we did not spray more often since it was so fast. Hes reply was yeah its fast alright but you can screw things up quickly too with a sprayer.


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## PPD (Mar 19, 2018)

If they’re willing to pay for brush/roll while you block off the back then ya I’d take it! 

Trying to mask the entire structure to prevent black overspray from coming in contact with ANY of the structures white surfaces will be a nightmare :/ 

Woulda been hella lot easier had they thought ahead and had the painting done before installing the rest...


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## AnthonyFalzon (Feb 24, 2020)

I think spraying is the best option.


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## Tapwater (Aug 24, 2015)

Honestly, I’d be cutting and rolling that baby with a 4” roller where I could. I feel it’d be far too much prep/masking for an airless and even a bit of masking would be needed with an hvlp.


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## Masterwork (Sep 13, 2020)

Lightningboy65 said:


> Well, the sprayer would be in the lift. 2 gal. HVLP pressure pot.....wouldn't be refilling too much. No ground guy needed. Even with airless, when spraying from a lift, I'd rather take a smaller (ie 395) sprayer up in the lift with me than run a hose from the ground.


This made me chuckle. I can't imagine trying to work around a pump, plus 5 gallon pails of paint, 30 feet up with a factory ceiling in my face. My 840 weighs about 120lbs, also, plus the weight of the paint you'd be bringing up.... Might exceed the 500lbs most lifts will do.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Tapwater said:


> Honestly, I’d be cutting and rolling that baby with a 4” roller where I could. I feel it’d be far too much prep/masking for an airless and even a bit of masking would be needed with an hvlp.


Although your about 8 months late to this discussion, I Am curious what the OP ended up doing.. After that lengthy discussion I think viewers deserve to know! @Bullyblues


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