# deckscapes vs. cabbot



## Wallnut (May 4, 2010)

which semi-trans is better? I can't get sikkens here so that's not an option... I'm switching over from ben moore... after this I'll have completley replaced them... i was pretty dissapointed to find out that the arborcoat semi-trans I put on 7 months ago is peeling... anyone use either of these two products or both? I'd like to know which lasts longer and looks better longer...


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

here in NC all products usually only last two years on decks, what makes a product good to me is the availibility and how easy it is to work with. Wich out of your two choices neither. But I would probally lean to cabbots for semi-trans before I would deck scapes


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## Wallnut (May 4, 2010)

are there any other choices you'd recommend? I dont really have many options out here without going big box...


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Wallnut said:


> which semi-trans is better? I can't get sikkens here so that's not an option... I'm switching over from ben moore... after this I'll have completley replaced them... i was pretty dissapointed to find out that the arborcoat semi-trans I put on 7 months ago is peeling... anyone use either of these two products or both? I'd like to know which lasts longer and looks better longer...


Why is it peeling? A semi-trans shouldnt peel unless it was over applied, or failed to penetrate due to improper wood prep. Was it a new deck? Have you had a rep out to look at it? Thats where i'd start.

I think if a semi-trans is peeling, it was most likely an application or substrate issue and would happen regardless of the product used. Switching products wont make a difference unless you know what caused the peeling, and isolate it to the product itself.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

^^^ all what he said ^^^


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

Wallnut said:


> are there any other choices you'd recommend? I dont really have many options out here without going big box...


olympic oil toners


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## Wallnut (May 4, 2010)

NCPaint1 said:


> Why is it peeling? A semi-trans shouldnt peel unless it was over applied, or failed to penetrate due to improper wood prep. Was it a new deck? Have you had a rep out to look at it? Thats where i'd start.
> 
> I think if a semi-trans is peeling, it was most likely an application or substrate issue and would happen regardless of the product used. Switching products wont make a difference unless you know what caused the peeling, and isolate it to the product itself.


I'm more switching because of the fact that the bm rep is refusing to meet with me... the deck was about a year old... never stained... moisture test done ... right conditions during application... and applied clearcoat according to manufacturers recommendations... it was all done right... and it failed in under 7 months. Most of it is holding... its mainly in the middle of the boards where its just flaking away... wasn't over applied... was one coat only brushed in...


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## Wallnut (May 4, 2010)

Wallnut said:


> I'm more switching because of the fact that the bm rep is refusing to meet with me... the deck was about a year old... never stained... moisture test done ... right conditions during application... and applied clearcoat according to manufacturers recommendations... it was all done right... and it failed in under 7 months. Most of it is holding... its mainly in the middle of the boards where its just flaking away... wasn't over applied... was one coat only brushed in...


I've done enough decks and this is the first thats ever failed on me. I do them all the same and I know all of the reasons why one could fail... the only one i used the arborcoat semi on was the first i've ever had fail.


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## Wallnut (May 4, 2010)

the rep doesn't even want to meet with me so I figure im going to have a hard time getting anything out of them... all they want to do is the classic... heres some more of the same product that failed the first time... how does that work out for my customer??? She paid good money to have it done and it didn't even last a year... I obviously am not going to do it again for free... especially since i need to strip it now...but I don't think it makes much sense or is right that she has to pay for it again...


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Wallnut said:


> I'm more switching because of the fact that the bm rep is refusing to meet with me... the deck was about a year old... never stained... moisture test done ... right conditions during application... and applied clearcoat according to manufacturers recommendations... it was all done right... and it failed in under 7 months. Most of it is holding... its mainly in the middle of the boards where its just flaking away... wasn't over applied... was one coat only brushed in...



You applied a clearcoat after staining? Snap crackle peel, theres your problem. Clear gets hammered due to sun exposure and probably pulled the stain with it.


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## Faron79 (Dec 11, 2007)

If the Cedar deck was 1yr. old with nothing on it...

Why wasn't it fully sanded?!

U.S. Forest-Service and other studies show that 50% of the surface Cellulose & Lignin get fried-out by the sun....IN TWO WEEKS.

There goes HALF of your holding-power right there.

Soooooo many people assume it's ridiculous to sand a "new" deck.
>>> It's actually CRITICAL.

>>> Doesn't matter HOW CLEAN it was either....if half of the fibrous material is gone that holds the stain in the first place.....guess what's gonna happen.
* There's also 1 years worth of surface "grain-crush" to factor in too.
* So far, that's 2 big strikes against the project right there, and our hypothetical deck hasn't even been touched yet!
* In addition, Mill-Glaze may still be present on some/all boards. This is due to the heavy pressure/speed from the planing blades at the mills. It "glazes" the woods' surface slightly, impairing penetration of stains.
* This is tricky, 'cuz many times you can't "see" the glazing effect, and it varies a lot because of every boards "flex"/torsion thru the process.

The best remedy for all this...........??!?!
SANDING.

Faron


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## Wallnut (May 4, 2010)

Paradigmzz said:


> You applied a clearcoat after staining? Snap crackle peel, theres your problem. Clear gets hammered due to sun exposure and probably pulled the stain with it.


its Arborcoat semi... it calls for a clear...


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## Wallnut (May 4, 2010)

Faron79 said:


> If the Cedar deck was 1yr. old with nothing on it...
> 
> Why wasn't it fully sanded?!
> 
> ...


 
Okay why is it that no one seems to trust that I did everything that I'm supposed to... do you think im new!?... It was sanded... its not cedar... it was pressure treated... and before you all say that that was the reason... or that a year is too long to sit... arborcoat claims to be able to go straight on NEW pressure treated wood... honestly I don't remember the question being " Give me your expertise on where I went wrong because I'm a total moron" I think i was asking what all of your favorite stains are... 1 because I want to switch products... and 2 because the bm service here sucks. Anyways... thanks for all the "help"... nevermind.


Wallnut


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## Faron79 (Dec 11, 2007)

Whoa....hold on a minute!

All I had to go by was your first post here....
Your 1st post in this thread didn't give all that much info. I probably accidentally viewed this post in isolation.

I'm sorry if I didn't recall another thread you posted in! I may have...I didn't check....

Separately-
Marketing on BM (or any!) labels and reality of performance are sometimes 2 different things!
Even after a long "dry-out", pressure-treated stuff can be prone to this...more so than dry "regular" lumber.

I haven't researched Arborcoat much.
Do they really call for a SEPARATE clearcoat??

Faron


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## Sully (May 25, 2011)

Wallnut said:


> I'm more switching because of the fact that the bm rep is refusing to meet with me... the deck was about a year old... never stained... moisture test done ... right conditions during application... and applied clearcoat according to manufacturers recommendations... it was all done right... and it failed in under 7 months. Most of it is holding... its mainly in the middle of the boards where its just flaking away... wasn't over applied... was one coat only brushed in...[/QUOTE
> 
> Let me get this straight. All of the boards are peeling, mainly in the center of each board across the entire deck? If it's all of them I'd think it was the stain or clear coat. If it's an area then I'd say there was some sort of grease or oil on the wood that wasn't removed when cleaned. I've never used a BM stain only cabot and deckscapes.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Faron79 said:


> I haven't researched Arborcoat much.
> Do they really call for a SEPARATE clearcoat??
> 
> Faron


Yes they do. Im really surprised the Rep isnt going to look at it. :blink:


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## Wallnut (May 4, 2010)

Faron79 said:


> Whoa....hold on a minute!
> 
> All I had to go by was your first post here....
> Your 1st post in this thread didn't give all that much info. I probably accidentally viewed this post in isolation.
> ...


yeah its a semi colourant with a uv clearcoat... it's supposed to last longer and go straight on new pressure treated wood etc... anways sorry if i snapped at ya abit... i just get annoyed when i ask one question and that totally gets overlooked and people want to tell me what I did wrong... I did nothing wrong... and all I was asking was for a favorite stain...


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## Wallnut (May 4, 2010)

Sully said:


> Wallnut said:
> 
> 
> > I'm more switching because of the fact that the bm rep is refusing to meet with me... the deck was about a year old... never stained... moisture test done ... right conditions during application... and applied clearcoat according to manufacturers recommendations... it was all done right... and it failed in under 7 months. Most of it is holding... its mainly in the middle of the boards where its just flaking away... wasn't over applied... was one coat only brushed in...[/QUOTE
> ...


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## Wallnut (May 4, 2010)

NCPaint1 said:


> Yes they do. Im really surprised the Rep isnt going to look at it. :blink:


Yeah that was the last straw... this store has been steadily getting worse and now the rep acted like he didn't need to look at it... while the sherwin rep I have likes to come to my job sites just to bring me coffee... I'm done with bm.


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## tntpainting (Apr 3, 2008)

i like cabots and i like deckscrapes both for different reasons cabots in semi trans (oil) and deckscapes solid (acrylic) . In my humble opinion, semi trans acrylic just hasnt been perfected yet although everyone seems to be trying to switch to it .it looks like crap whenit starts to wear , peeling cracking and such. oil just fades naturally.


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