# Irritating issue with spray finish



## jsoll816 (Feb 27, 2019)

I'm using an epoxy latex paint from Kelly Moore and I'm spraying with a Fuji q5 hvlp sprayer with a 1.5 tip thinned out pretty good on low enough pressure just to push the material. I'm spraying fiberglass doors face down in a contained booth with no ventilation currently. The paint has a kind of streaky divet in it. It only happened on one of the doors. What would be the best action to correct this? Would it be a surface contamination? Fluke? Environmental cause? I've had a nightmare of a time teaching myself how to properly spray latex with an hvlp and I keep running into new issues. Thanks.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Many here, myself included, will say that using an HVLP to spray latex is an exercise in frustration. You can do it but you have to thin the product out so much that it severely affects the integrity of it.. 

I have the same system as you (Fuji) and I gave up on it for spraying water based enamels and went strictly airless with a fflp tip for my fine finish spraying. On a side note, I do use my HVLP for spraying oil based enamels, which can be thinned down better, and for clear coats which can be sprayed nicely right out of the can. Just make sure you run your products through a medium cone filter first.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

I heard you need a 2.00 tip to spray latex worth a crap.

However, that looks like the surface wasnt smooth to begin with. THat doesnt look like anything paint can do, but I could be wrong.


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

I always used a #3 (1.2mm) projector set for latex. Sprayer manufacturer specs recommend a #5 (2.00mm) for latex, which is too large for FF work.

I'm not familiar with a "1.5 tip" as I always operated within the Capspray world, which only dealt in whole numbers. If indeed the 1.5 is on the scale of traditional HVLP projector set numbers, you need a larger orifice. You'll never get latex to spray properly using such a small projector set without over reducing it.

I might add the addition of a pressure pot makes all the difference in the world when running latex in an HVLP. The addition of the pressure added by the pot compressor really helps.


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## jsoll816 (Feb 27, 2019)

I appreciate the input. I was using a 1.8 tip which is recommended from Fuji for latex based products. However I watched a great video from Brian CNC on YouTube about spraying latex and he had a Fuji with a 1.5 tip and thinned out enough to push the product. It seemed he got great results like that. I found the 1.8 tip puts too much product out fore fine finishes. That door is a fiberglass door so it’s so smooth it has absolutely no margin error. I would be using an oil base but they don’t make a true white in oil apparently.


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## jennifertemple (Oct 30, 2011)

:confused1: Dumb-me, how can an epoxy be latex? Sorry, that is one paint I never heard of. :sad:


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

Yeah, I assume it's waterborne epoxy.

Or could be DuraPoxy, which isn't epoxy at all. Just paint with poxy in the name.


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## jsoll816 (Feb 27, 2019)

From what the rep told me at Kelly Moore, it is a latex paint with a form of epoxy mixed in to give it a harder finish. It supposedly supposed to mimic the hardness of oil once it’s fully cured.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

jsoll816 said:


> From what the rep told me at Kelly Moore, it is a latex paint with a form of epoxy mixed in to give it a harder finish. It supposedly supposed to mimic the hardness of oil once itâ€™s fully cured.


Careful, you can never believe what those paint reps or store clerks have to say about their products. They are just above the level of snake oil salesman when it comes to trustworthyness. :devil3:


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

jsoll816 said:


> From what the rep told me at Kelly Moore, it is a latex paint with a form of epoxy mixed in to give it a harder finish. It supposedly supposed to mimic the hardness of oil once itâ€™s fully cured.


That sounds like Durapoxy to me. It isnt an epoxy, but its damn good paint. It gets rock hard right away. You can spray cabinet doors, and flip them two hours later. It also sticks to oil base paint. The salesman aint BSing on that stuff. Very reasonably priced too. 

I'd like to do a side by side comparison with scuff-X one of these days...


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Woodco said:


> That sounds like Durapoxy to me. It isnt an epoxy, but its damn good paint. It gets rock hard right away. You can spray cabinet doors, and flip them two hours later. It also sticks to oil base paint. The salesman aint BSing on that stuff. Very reasonably priced too.
> 
> I'd like to do a side by side comparison with scuff-X one of these days...


And just to be clear, I wasn’t disparaging DuraPoxy in any way. I use it a fair amount myself and it is indeed a great product.


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## mug (Dec 22, 2010)

jsoll816 said:


> I'm using an epoxy latex paint from Kelly Moore and I'm spraying with a Fuji q5 hvlp sprayer with a 1.5 tip thinned out pretty good on low enough pressure just to push the material. I'm spraying fiberglass doors face down in a contained booth with no ventilation currently. The paint has a kind of streaky divet in it. It only happened on one of the doors. What would be the best action to correct this? Would it be a surface contamination? Fluke? Environmental cause? I've had a nightmare of a time teaching myself how to properly spray latex with an hvlp and I keep running into new issues. Thanks.


One easy product to spray with hvlp is Breakthrough v50 (lower voc version) I have sprayed it in super humid, cold and wet, hot etc. Always acts the same. However, it has to be top coated with clear if hand oils will be a problem.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

CabinetCoat sprays just fine unthinned out of graco 9.0 and edge II gun. Havn't tried any scuffX yet.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

NEVER use breakthrough in humid conditions!! That stuff will crack and flake like no tomorrow.


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## mug (Dec 22, 2010)

Woodco said:


> NEVER use breakthrough in humid conditions!! That stuff will crack and flake like no tomorrow.


Which version?


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Looks like contaminates to me. A 1.8 or 2.0 tip should be fine. You don't want to thin your product too much or will be compromising the finish big time..

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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

mug said:


> Which version?


either version.


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## michaeljmann2000 (Jun 5, 2017)

Regarding the Dura Poxy and containing epoxy. Just had this conversation with most excellent manager at Salida KM store. Dura Poxy and Epic are related but Epic takes longer to dry and has a harder finish due to a "Created with a unique urethane-alkyd resin to provide a long lasting, hard finish that out performs standard enamel coatings." I just refinished oak cabinets, first coat by hand was KM adhesion plus. Customer complained did not like to see the oak grain, okay no prob, two heavy coats of KM high build primer SWEET! and finished with Dura Poxy two heavy coats. I did experiment with a gallon of Epic for some of the doors to compare side by side, very difficult to tell difference. For in and out jobs where customer just wants to change the color of the old oak cabinets, I use Break Through. Really good stuff and durable. Deglosser, light sand, tack rag, roll it on and lay it off. Called my 4 customers last year and not one ding. I painted some parking lot lines with Break Through, just swept away lightly, not the best clean job, lines still looking great a year later. Semi Gloss Break Through as a 1 step for exterior doors, not good, even with extender. Dura Poxy the real deal. Break Through for exterior fascia way to go 1 heavy coat and done, and other trim excepting doors.


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## jsoll816 (Feb 27, 2019)

Thanks for the info! How about this issue; I’m spraying zissner bullseye primer and it developed a bunch of small round craters immediately. I’m submitting this on my phone or I’d show pictures. From all the info I’ve gathered it seems to lead to a thinning issue, too much water. Can anyone confirm this?


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## PNW Painter (Sep 5, 2013)

Did you add a lot of water or spray it straight out of the can. Was the paint or substrate really cold when you sprayed it?


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

jsoll816 said:


> Thanks for the info! How about this issue; Iâ€m spraying zissner bullseye primer and it developed a bunch of small round craters immediately. Iâ€m submitting this on my phone or Iâ€d show pictures. From all the info Iâ€ve gathered it seems to lead to a thinning issue, too much water. Can anyone confirm this?


Way to many reasons that can happen. Your going to have to be more specific man.
What are you spraying? What kind of sprayer? What was your prep? Etc....

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## Turnerpaintingtx (Apr 7, 2019)

michaeljmann2000 said:


> Regarding the Dura Poxy and containing epoxy. Just had this conversation with most excellent manager at Salida KM store. Dura Poxy and Epic are related but Epic takes longer to dry and has a harder finish due to a "Created with a unique urethane-alkyd resin to provide a long lasting, hard finish that out performs standard enamel coatings." I just refinished oak cabinets, first coat by hand was KM adhesion plus. Customer complained did not like to see the oak grain, okay no prob, two heavy coats of KM high build primer SWEET! and finished with Dura Poxy two heavy coats. I did experiment with a gallon of Epic for some of the doors to compare side by side, very difficult to tell difference. For in and out jobs where customer just wants to change the color of the old oak cabinets, I use Break Through. Really good stuff and durable. Deglosser, light sand, tack rag, roll it on and lay it off. Called my 4 customers last year and not one ding. I painted some parking lot lines with Break Through, just swept away lightly, not the best clean job, lines still looking great a year later. Semi Gloss Break Through as a 1 step for exterior doors, not good, even with extender. Dura Poxy the real deal. Break Through for exterior fascia way to go 1 heavy coat and done, and other trim excepting doors.




Was it the KM level 5 high build?


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