# cabinet painting opinions



## remodeling joe (Apr 18, 2007)

6months ago i sprayed some old cabinets(stained and varnished). primed w/ ziser123 and sprayed pro classic satin. well... they came out flat and when rubbed w/ a wet rag some paint comes off on the rag. i sanded off the varnish and wiped them cleaned. any responses would be appreciated.
thanks
joe


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

You most likely painted over some grease that had been absorbed into the wood work,this is very common around the stove or where drawer handles are.Not much you can do about it.


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

Hi. Since you only have a couple posts, I am compelled to ask. Are you a professional painter? 

And did you mean Zinsser123 Waterbase Primer?


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## remodeling joe (Apr 18, 2007)

i've been painting for some 15 yrs but never had to use a sprayer until last year. so i am kinda new to the sprayer. i have a graco 195. and yes it was zinser 1-2-3 as a primer. but my question is why did the pro classic satin come out flat and still rubs off somewhat. i never had a problem with brushing cabinets before. and never used pro classic on cabinets. i always use pro mar 200 on all my woodwork. i think next time i'll use gripper or zinser bin, w/ super paint. what do you guys think, on cabinets that is??


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

remodeling joe said:


> i've been painting for some 15 yrs but never had to use a sprayer until last year. so i am kinda new to the sprayer. i have a graco 195. and yes it was zinser 1-2-3 as a primer. but my question is why did the pro classic satin come out flat and still rubs off somewhat. i never had a problem with brushing cabinets before. and never used pro classic on cabinets. i always use pro mar 200 on all my woodwork. i think next time i'll use gripper or zinser bin, w/ super paint. what do you guys think, on cabinets that is??


When you say "painting 15 years", does this mean you paint for a living? I am trying to establish whether or not you are a professional painter.

I cant tell by the nature of the questions you are asking.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Just answer the damn question.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Joe, there are better choices out there than promar 200 for your final coat. If you deal with Sherwin Williams ask them what they recommend. (Probably pro classic)

I don't think spraying is the problem. It sounds like what John said. You need to prep them better. Hand grime and such.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Even though you used Bull's Eye 123, If there were heavy smokers or lots of grease it may bleed through. 

Was the dried color correct? 

What did you clean your machine with when changing paints? 

Did you get all of it out before spraying the finish coat?

How long did you let the 123 dry before applying the finish?

How many coats of finish paint?

You say you sprayed them six months ago. Was it a problem then or did it become a problem over time?

If it became a problem over time, do they clean them with an ammonia based product?

Am I asking too many questions?

Who cares?

You want an answer, right?

Pro Classis is a much better finish product than Pro Mar. Although it is possible you purchased a bad batch. 

You should have used one of Zinnser's oil based products IMHO. (Oil Based Cover Stain)


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Yeah: I just noticed that, Promar 200 who would paint kit cabs with this stuff?Sure it's fine for walls, well average anyway.RJ you got to seek a higher plain than this.Hey there was a guy on another thread that wanted to spray his ceiling with block filler though.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

johnpaint said:


> .Hey there was a guy on another thread that wanted to spray his ceiling with block filler though.


I missed that thread.


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## remodeling joe (Apr 18, 2007)

OMG!! enough bashing already!!lol!!!:no:
yes i'v been painting professionaly for about 15 yrs. i'm old school brush and roll type of painter. now the answers....i sanded, cleaned w/ a degreaser, primed w/ zinser water based(blue label)let dry overnight and sprayed about 3 coats of top coat w/ pro classic. i didn't want to use pro mar 200 so i tried pro classic satin. i'm thinking (as one of you stated) maybe i did get a bad batch. i've brushed proclassic on woodwork and never had a problem. i've painted many cabinets by brush and never had a problem. just wondering if it had to do w/ the sprayer. i only spray latex, clean until clear, and rinse thoroughly before ever spraying.


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## woodtradesman (Sep 22, 2008)

You didn't say if the proiclassic was WB or oil base. The problem with proclassic WB is that it has lower sheen then labeled so you need to move up one sheen level to get the correct sheen. Next time use semi gloss to get a sheen between satin and semi gloss.

The paint is probaly rubbing off because your finish coats might be too thick and therefore taking weeks if not months longer to cure.

I spray pro-classic on my cabinets and furniture with a fine finish tip (310) with no problems.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

remodeling joe said:


> OMG!! enough bashing already!!lol!!!:no:
> yes i'v been painting professionaly for about 15 yrs. i'm old school brush and roll type of painter. now the answers....i sanded, cleaned w/ a degreaser,
> 
> What did you use as a de-greaser? And did you neutralize it? Rinse with water?
> ...


Still did not answer the other questions. And I am not bashing anybody.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

ProClassic WB Satin will always be duller than what you'd expect of a satin sheen. The semi-gloss will give you more of a satin look.

I'm not a big fan of using ProMar on cabinets. If you're sticking with SW products and looking for cheaper material alternatives, try using their IncrediCoat or their all purpose enamel. I know Wise has used the all purpose on a cabinet project so he would know better than I on how it went.

FYI; there are a few contractors in my area who advertise all brush and roll painting. They fill a niche for the customer who doesnt want spraying. I've bid jobs before that the customer is adament they dont want anything sprayed. I did an exterior last year where the customer came out as soon as he saw the pump set up and ready to go. Explained to him that it was alot easier to drag a hose and gun up the ladder, but everything would be brushed.


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## bhamsoxfan (Dec 29, 2008)

woodtradesman said:


> I spray pro-classic on my cabinets and furniture with a fine finish tip (310) with no problems.


Is that the solvent-based or water-based ProClassic? Do you reduce it to get it through the 310 tip?


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

joe said:


> now the answers....i sanded, cleaned w/ a degreaser, primed w/ zinser water


This is were you probably ran into trouble. You should degrease FIRST, then sand everything.
If you sand, then degrease, you essentially 'fill in' all the profile you gave the cabinets with grease and contaminants.
Residue from a degreaser would concern me to.


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## brushmstr (Feb 15, 2009)

We paint new homes and kitchen cabinets ( on-site and at our shop ). We use different materials for on-site cabinets. I would have degreased, sanded with 220 and wiped with wilbond. Then we would have used either alcohol based shellac or waterbourne shellac. Then I would have used a waterbourne laquer. This has a hard finish and looks close to a pre -cat laquer. I personally would not have used the 123. This is too porous and also prevents the true sheen to reveal.


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## woodtradesman (Sep 22, 2008)

bhamsoxfan said:


> Is that the solvent-based or water-based ProClassic? Do you reduce it to get it through the 310 tip?


Its water based and I thin it just a tad (about 5%) with water.


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## remodeling joe (Apr 18, 2007)

hey all you guys, i really appreciate the responses, which lead me to believe the problem was i should of used zinser shellac primer, should of sprayed semi to achieve satin sheen, and let each coat dry much longer in between sprays. this is how we learn, from our mistakes and by recieving info from our fellow workers. thank you very, very much. i wish all of you too much work to handle this year!!!! make that money!!!


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

remodeling joe said:


> hey all you guys, i really appreciate the responses, which lead me to believe the problem was i should of used zinser shellac primer, should of sprayed semi to achieve satin sheen, and let each coat dry much longer in between sprays. this is how we learn, from our mistakes and by recieving info from our fellow workers.


 
A lot of the techniques and products you used are not earmarks of someone who has been painting professionally.

I am not bashing. The first two times I posted on this thread, I intentionally worded my posts to avoid saying anything that might make someone feel bad if they were a professional painter and had such a lack of knowledge, or if they weren't a professional.

Many of the problems you were having would not even be on the list of possibilities for a professional.

For example, if you had brushed and rolled the Zinsser123 WB primer over improperly prepped varnished cabinets, would that have been succesfull?

Why would you stack 3 coats without sufficient cure time between each coat when you were spraying? Is this different than stacking 3 coats without sufficient cure time when brushing an rolling cabinets?

I honestly am not intending for my questions to be offensive. I am not hurling insults, or even being sarcastic.

Please bear in mind that this forum has been established for professional painters. That is the format. 

I cant speak for everyone, but I am pretty sure that any level of professional painter would be accepted here, even a greenhorn working for a legitimate painting crew who wants to join this forum to increase and compare and contrast the knowledge he is learning on the jobsite.

The questions you have asked, and with a name like "remodeling joe" it is coming across like painting is not how you make your living.

Most experienced painters aren't going to be keen on spending their time teaching people how to avoid all of the problems that non-professional painters have when they attempt projects.

Professional painters have invested many years learning how to avoid these problems, this is what they get paid to do, it is how they make a living.

Trying to establish whether or not someone truly fits the criteria of this forum is not bashing.


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## remodeling joe (Apr 18, 2007)

Professional painters have invested many years learning how to avoid these problems, this is what they get paid to do, it is how they make a living.


wow.....
and for the rest of you who took the time to advise someone who just made a mistake to find his way , i say thank you.
joe

and....mr last craftman........i didnt' know that learning didn't mean asking some fu-----g questions!!!! i didn't know you were mr LORD PAINTER OF THE UNIVERSE!!!! NEXT TIME I'M ON HERE WITH A QUESTION PLEASE FEEL FREE TO STAY OUT OF IT!! THANKS
JOE


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

Joe, I do apologise if you are a professional painter and my questions were abrupt. I am being 100% honest when I say that my goal was not to make you feel bad or put down.

I am also being 100% honest that from what you posted it seemed to me that you were not a professional painter.

When you arrived at the conclusion that people were "bashing" you when several people gave you non-agressive and accurate suggestions with knowledge that most professional painters already know, it seemed sort of like the bashing comment was diverting the issue.

I believed the question of whether or not you were a professional painter was one of the things that cuased you to think that people were "bashing" you. So with my post, I was trying to explain why I would have an interest in knowing if you were a professional painter or not.

And in the event that you were not a professional painter, I was explaining why professional painters would not want to be spending time teaching everyone and their dog things that it took them years of experience and paying their dues to figure out.



remodeling joe said:


> Professional painters have invested many years learning how to avoid these problems, this is what they get paid to do, it is how they make a living.


As a professional painter, I am sure you would agree with me on this statement right?



remodeling joe said:


> i didnt' know that learning didn't mean asking some fu-----g questions!!!!


I agree 100%, that is why I said this:

_I cant speak for everyone, but I am pretty sure that any level of professional painter would be accepted here, even a greenhorn working for a legitimate painting crew who wants to join this forum to increase and compare and contrast the knowledge he is learning on the jobsite._


And believe it or not, I enjoy exchanging ideas and knowledge with other professional painters. 

And no I do not think I am the most knowledgable painter around. 

There are several people who frequent this forum who I can tell by reading their posts and seeing their websites that have more experience and knowledge than I do.

There are even a couple people in this forum that I have disagreed with on specific issues whom from what I can tell have _over-all_ more experience and knowledge than I do.

This forum represents only a small fraction of all the painters in the world so there must be a lot of painters in the world who have more experience and knowledge than I do.

I will say it one more time just to be sure, and you can believe it or not but my goal was never to make you feel bad, or put down as a painter.

So if you truly do paint for a living, you have my sincere apologies for doubting/questioning you.

And if not, that's a hell of a lot of capital letters to be throwing around in here. 

BTW. I just got back from the Hall of Justice, and Superman and Wonder Woman agree with you. "mr LORD PAINTER OF THE UNIVERSE!!!!" sounds a little sanctimonious, from now on I will be known to citizens of Metropolis simply as..."The Brush"


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## remodeling joe (Apr 18, 2007)

DEAR MR . LORD PAINTER OF THE UNIVERSE!!
HAHAHHAHHAA!!!!!:laughing: you be sure to tell wonder woman that she can save me anytime!! 

i do appreciate your response....every professional painter still has questions that others have more experience w/. (like me :whistling2 i do thank you all for "all" of your responses in helping me achieve a higher level of quality on my workmanship. i respect all of your responses and the questions you may have in other threads.
hey last craftman,,, be cool, i wish you all the work in the world, especially this year!!!:notworthy:


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