# Arborcoat feedback please



## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

I have a deck coming up and the BM paint rep wants to spot me some materials. It needs to be stripped, brightened, and finished. Wanted some feedback on Arborcoat please. Thanks, Mike


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## Rick the painter (Mar 30, 2009)

sorry Mike cant help ya there,ya might want to try the BM semi solid oil decking stain.I bought Cabots semi solid oil decking in a cedar tone color (neutral base) and it was a disaster.No coverage and a poly-like finish that might dry some time this summer.Its a battle out there right now!


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I had Cabot's semi-solid peel up a little bit in some areas on a deck we did last year. Never had BM semi-trans oil do that, so I do not think I would use Cabot's semi-solid again. I have not tried the arbor coat yet though.


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## Snow's Paint Dept. (Jun 1, 2010)

Woodland said:


> I have a deck coming up and the BM paint rep wants to spot me some materials. It needs to be stripped, brightened, and finished. Wanted some feedback on Arborcoat please. Thanks, Mike


Prep would be the same
However, application might differ
Solid/Semi-Solid would be the same, but semi-trans would need a clear-coat

As it usually takes at least a year for contractors to bite on a new product, the fact that we have lately been selling out of ArborCoat and that contractors have been the major purchasers is a good sign


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Well which stain are you going to use? There a transparent, semi transparent, semi solid, and solid. I hate when People start saying Peel. You can't say that yet, don't know the product being used yet.


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## Rick the painter (Mar 30, 2009)

NCPaint1 said:


> Well which stain are you going to use? There a transparent, semi transparent, semi solid, and solid. I hate when People start saying Peel. You can't say that yet, don't know the product being used yet.


No solid here in Ct NC, Purdy even took away my favorite brush to spread it with,the 4" Oreole (spel)


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Rick the painter said:


> No solid here in Ct NC, Purdy even took away my favorite brush to spread it with,the 4" Oreole (spel)


No solid? WA WA whatttttt? Why not? Store doesn't carry it or its not compliant?

I've sold only a little of the solid stain. I have sold quite a bit of the semi solid and semi transparent. So far all good feedback. Good open time ( surprised me ) but dries faster than oil for a quicker return to service. Plus less temperamental with the weather.


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

DeanV said:


> I had Cabot's semi-solid peel up a little bit in some areas on a deck we did last year. Never had BM semi-trans oil do that, so I do not think I would use Cabot's semi-solid again. I have not tried the arbor coat yet though.


shouldn't peel, defeats the whole purpose of the stain. how many coats did you do?


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

They are wanting a semi-transparent stain.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Woodland said:


> They are wanting a semi-transparent stain.


It shouldnt peel unless its over applied. Or the wood still has mill glaze.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

hammerheart14 said:


> shouldn't peel, defeats the whole purpose of the stain. how many coats did you do?



One coat. Peeling on some shady stairs and where water drips off the roof from the drip edge. I do not feel it was over applied. There was no previous coating left on the deck after we power washed and sanded (use the BM machine with the brushes).


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

DeanV said:


> I do not feel it was over applied.


Whether you think it or not, chances are thats what caused it. Many times the peeling areas ARE near the house. Usually those areas are shaded, and dont get weathered enough. The stains have a hard time penetrating and kinda pool there. So its really not that you (or whoever) over applied it, it just dried on the surface.

Who knows, maybe the H.O, put an extra coat on the surface boards and didnt say anything...that happens sometimes too.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

NCPaint1 said:


> It shouldnt peel unless its over applied. Or the wood still has mill glaze.


Thanks, I will make sure theres no mill glaze.


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## Bighead (Nov 28, 2008)

Cabots has issues. I was told to stay away until they work out the kinks in their new formulas.


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

Bighead said:


> Cabots has issues. I was told to stay away until they work out the kinks in their new formulas.


never ONCE had a problem with the cabot oil stains, but I sell the high 550 voc oil stains. what voc is the cabot stains that people are saying to stay away from?


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## Snow's Paint Dept. (Jun 1, 2010)

Bighead said:


> Cabots has issues. I was told to stay away until they work out the kinks in their new formulas.





hammerheart14 said:


> never ONCE had a problem with the cabot oil stains, but I sell the high 550 voc oil stains. what voc is the cabot stains that people are saying to stay away from?


Keeping in mind that we are a Cabot dealer, it truly pains us to say that Cabot's products...well...they just ain't what they used to be
Not sure if it's the EPA laws or the Valspar take-over, but even the (former) 3000 Natural (three name changes in two years) doesn't do what it did
In fact, the only reason I did my own deck in Cabot's 3000 two years ago was the free fiver...(after 20 years of Cabot, I wanted to use Sikkens-my go-to problem-solving deck product for my own home)

In a retail sense, we can't even recommend the former "go-to" Aussie Timber Oil for dense hardwoods
The new re-formulation (reduced "dryers") can take up to 17 weeks to "not be sticky"
This is by (our) proven quality applicators/customers...real pros!

We still recommend Cabot ProVT, but Aussie Timber Oil...not so much


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## Snow's Paint Dept. (Jun 1, 2010)

Woodland said:


> I have a deck coming up and the BM paint rep wants to spot me some materials. It needs to be stripped, brightened, and finished. Wanted some feedback on Arborcoat please. Thanks, Mike


Any/All feedback on ArborCoat in our neck of the woods has thus far been excellent
This is extremely unusual as it usually takes at least a year for contractors to bite on a new product
The fact that contractors have been well more than half of the consumers at this point is a great sign that it is a good product


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

Snow's Paint Dept. said:


> Keeping in mind that we are a Cabot dealer, it truly pains us to say that Cabot's products...well...they just ain't what they used to be
> Not sure if it's the EPA laws or the Valspar take-over, but even the (former) 3000 Natural (three name changes in two years) doesn't do what it did
> In fact, the only reason I did my own deck in Cabot's 3000 two years ago was the free fiver...(after 20 years of Cabot, I wanted to use Sikkens-my go-to problem-solving deck product for my own home)
> 
> ...


The 3000 series, should be a 550 voc product, and is the same stain I have been selling since 1998. No complaints about it, but I tell people, transparent stains are for looks and maintenance, not longevity. BUT, the austrailian timber oil, is bar none, the best all around transparent stain on the market today, AS LONG AS IT'S THE 550 VOC! Check your voc, is it the 100 voc, the 250, or the 550? Anyways, I tested 3 years ago, the Cabot ATO against the sikkens SRD (550 voc to be fair,) same equivalent to the ATO. Both FADED away two years later at the same time. But the only difference is Cabot ATO costs $35.95 retail per gallon, the SRD at $45.95 retail per gallon. Please check you ATO vocs, and see if you are allowed to carry the 550 voc in your area.


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## Snow's Paint Dept. (Jun 1, 2010)

hammerheart14 said:


> The 3000 series, should be a 550 voc product, and is the same stain I have been selling since 1998. No complaints about it


We would agree wholeheartedly, if the 3000 was still legal and available in our area
But alas...our/my beloved 3000 is no more (at least out here)


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## Snow's Paint Dept. (Jun 1, 2010)

hammerheart14 said:


> BUT, the austrailian timber oil, is bar none, the best all around transparent stain on the market today


Change that "is" to "was" and we're all board that train
Maybe a few years/formulations ago I'd agree with you're statement
In fact I'm sure I would've
But now...sorry...it S U X sucks

And it's made right here in my own home state
You'd think I'd be all gung-ho about it regardless

But sorry...too many "re-form" properly/professionally applied "17 Week Stickies" last season are enough for me/us to say "Buh-Bye" to the Aussie


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

Snow's Paint Dept. said:


> Change that "is" to "was" and we're all board that train
> Maybe a few years/formulations ago I'd agree with you're statement
> In fact I'm sure I would've
> But now...sorry...it S U X sucks
> ...


but what i'm trying to say is, what voc is the ATO you sell? the low voc takes forever to dry. the 550 i sell/use dries in 24 hours, tops. if it it the 550, how much do you apply? and what voc is the arborcoat you sell?


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

hammerheart14 said:


> Cabot ATO costs $35.95 retail per gallon, the SRD at $45.95 retail per gallon


$46/gal for SRD? If I could manage that, with the amount of SRD I sell....there would be a Maybach in my parking lot instead of an old Pickup


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

NCPaint1 said:


> $46/gal for SRD? If I could manage that, with the amount of SRD I sell....there would be a Maybach in my parking lot instead of an old Pickup


that's the suggested price of the product, at least here in so cal. what do you sell a gallon of srd for? retail.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

hammerheart14 said:


> that's the suggested price of the product, at least here in so cal. what do you sell a gallon of srd for? retail.


$33 retail


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## Dearco Man (Feb 24, 2010)

$33 Retail?? That seems really cheap, what's your contractor price? Suggested list in Wisconsin is $39.95


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Dearco Man said:


> $33 Retail?? That seems really cheap, what's your contractor price? Suggested list in Wisconsin is $39.95


Suggested retail is the same here, I prefer to sell my stain, not have it as a shelf ornament :thumbup: Contractor is $30.99/gal and $145/5 I sell a decent amount.


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## Snow's Paint Dept. (Jun 1, 2010)

hammerheart14 said:


> but what i'm trying to say is, what voc is the ATO you sell? the low voc takes forever to dry.


As far as we know, it's the only one available nationally in the USA at this point
And yes, it takes forever to dry
Some states have gone to this re-form a few years ago, which is all the more infuriating
It means Cabot knew about these issues three years ago and said "oh well"
As far as we know, if you are in the US of A and still getting the good stuff, you are one lucky bastich
Retailers can still sell the old stuff for another two years (if they bought it before the Nat. deadline)

Anticipating the potential issues we stock-piled pallets of the old stuff
Even with our (regional) horrid last spring (the season didn't start until after July 4th or so), once it became known we still had some of the "good stuff" we had Cabot clients from well beyond our usual customer base area (for those that know the region, from The Islands to P-Town) buying our stock (w/o jobs for it lined up) in anticipation of this year's season

At this point, we only have a few gallons of the old "clear" (not so popular) and one gallon of the 3000 that was a return (obviously bought months ago but hey, I might buy it myself and try to E-Bay it)

If you still have the old stuff, you could probably ask whatever you want per gallon



hammerheart14 said:


> ...how much do you apply?


We have been telling our ATO customers of the issue (brush only, and brush out well)
We have still had several known quality applicators with the same "8-17 week sticky" issues last year
Regardless, we certainly can't recommend it at this point...and with this info and these results I'm sure anyone who puts themselves in our shoes can see why

Sorry....
-The Capt.


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## Snow's Paint Dept. (Jun 1, 2010)

Woodland said:


> I have a deck coming up and the BM paint rep wants to spot me some materials. It needs to be stripped, brightened, and finished. Wanted some feedback on Arborcoat please. Thanks, Mike


We've got a demo and BBQ coming up here in town
(not at The Store, but at an actual customer's place...more of a real demo if you know what we mean)
See if your local dealer doesn't have something similar coming up in your area
Again, we'd like to say the contractor feedback on this has been surprisingly quick and positive
As it most often takes a year or more for the contractors to bite on a new product, this type of response is extremely encouraging

Respectively yours,
-The Capt.


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

Snow's Paint Dept. said:


> As far as we know, it's the only one available nationally in the USA at this point
> And yes, it takes forever to dry
> Some states have gone to this re-form a few years ago, which is all the more infuriating
> It means Cabot knew about these issues three years ago and said "oh well"
> ...


Bummer. We still can get the 550 voc because in california, if you are located in an environment above 4000 feet, you are exempt on voc laws for oil based stains. however, laws are changing soon, and now to be exempt, the product has to be labeled as a WOOD PRESERVATIVE, http://www.cabotstain.com/pdf/Cabot-Preservative-Wood Finish-4300.pdf and I believe Cabot is in the middle of doing this. But we are selling the **** out of the ATO, because we do have the 550 voc. I am one lucky bastard!!!


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

NCPaint1 said:


> Suggested retail is the same here, I prefer to sell my stain, not have it as a shelf ornament :thumbup: Contractor is $30.99/gal and $145/5 I sell a decent amount.


You know, that sucks man. I try to keep our ATO at A VERY REASONABLE rate at $169.95 a fiver and $35.95 a gallon. We're only making $3.00 a gallon at our price, without discounts, and you're selling the SRD even cheaper! I'm in business to be competitive, but at the same time, I wanna make some money to live!!!! Are you even making anything on the SRD?


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

Snow's Paint Dept. said:


> We've got a demo and BBQ coming up here in town
> (not at The Store, but at an actual customer's place...more of a real demo if you know what we mean)
> See if your local dealer doesn't have something similar coming up in your area
> Again, we'd like to say the contractor feedback on this has been surprisingly quick and positive
> ...


Does it take about a year to win over contractors from one paint store to another if you have better prices, more paint and stain knowledge, friendlier help, stock that doesn't run out, and better matching?


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

LOL Well, looks like this thread has been highjacked.  No worries. Carry on.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

hammerheart14 said:


> Are you even making anything on the SRD?


We're a level 1 dealer :thumbsup:


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Finally, after 24 hours of stripping and sanding got to start staining yesterday  I was really impressed with the Arborcoat Semi-transparent stain. I have to admit when I first opened a can I thought it looked kinda funny,(looked like chocolate milk) also went on a little different too. I'm used to oil stain. But, as it dried it came out looking beautiful. Never though that old deck would come out looking as good as it did. I like the stain. I will be doing the clear coat tommorow.


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## Dearco Man (Feb 24, 2010)

Woodland said:


> Finally, after 24 hours of stripping and sanding got to start staining yesterday  I was really impressed with the Arborcoat Semi-transparent stain. I have to admit when I first opened a can I thought it looked kinda funny,(looked like chocolate milk) also went on a little different too. I'm used to oil stain. But, as it dried it came out looking beautiful. Never though that old deck would come out looking as good as it did. I like the stain. I will be doing the clear coat tommorow.


I saw the pictures of the deck (Battle Ground WA) you posted of the before and after stripping and sanding. Do you know what product was on that deck? It looks like it had a pretty good sheen. By the way the strip/sand job looks like it turned out really nice. Please posts some pics of the Arborcoat S/T and clearcoat.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Dearco Man said:


> I saw the pictures of the deck (Battle Ground WA) you posted of the before and after stripping and sanding. Do you know what product was on that deck? It looks like it had a pretty good sheen. By the way the strip/sand job looks like it turned out really nice. Please posts some pics of the Arborcoat S/T and clearcoat.


Thank you. I worked very hard getting it prepped. I will try and find out what product was on the deck to begin with. I do have a couple photos on facebook and will post more today. 
http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100001032483018


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