# 2nd Coat Of Paint, Uses Less Paint?



## PhillysFinest (Jun 9, 2012)

I just did a big Foyer, Stairs & Hall for a customer and he bought the paint (Aura by BM). 

After the first coat of paint, he wanted to know how much paint I used. The answer was 1 1/2 gallons. 

On day TWO, I put a second coat on the walls, using exactly the same amout of paint, which was 1 1/2 gallons. The HO quickly stated, "when I do painting myself, I use less paint on the second coat"! He then looked at me funny, almost like he thought I stole some of his paint! 

*If the wall was primed, then (2) coats applied, do you guy use less paint on the 2nd coat? If so, what is your explanation for using less?*


----------



## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

PhillysFinest said:


> "when I do painting myself, I


Probably my least favorite start to a sentence from a HO.


----------



## oldpaintdoc (Apr 11, 2010)

Better question is: Why did customer buy the paint?


----------



## PhillysFinest (Jun 9, 2012)

oldpaintdoc said:


> Better question is: Why did customer buy the paint?


Avoid my question then answer a question with a question? :no:


----------



## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

PhillysFinest said:


> "when I do painting myself, I use less paint on the second coat"! He then looked at me funny, almost like he thought I stole some of his paint!
> 
> *If the wall was primed, then (2) coats applied, do you guy use less paint on the 2nd coat? If so, what is your explanation for using less?*


Probably because he doesn't see all the holidays applying the second coat. They're quite obvious on the first coat though. Also likely he's dry rolling the second coat for the same reason.


----------



## oldpaintdoc (Apr 11, 2010)

PhillysFinest said:


> Avoid my question then answer a question with a question? :no:


Ok. 

Second coat does not use as much paint as first because not as much is needed.


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

1) Get better customers.

2) Generally a second coat will take less material for the same coverage. It's sealed fairly well, you have the base color down, etc. Just like a second coat generally doesn't take as long to apply. 

Painting 101

Sent from my MB508 using Paint Talk


----------



## PhillysFinest (Jun 9, 2012)

oldpaintdoc said:


> Ok.
> 
> Second coat does not use as much paint as first because not as much is needed.


Thank you! 

I disagree! 

If the wall is primed, it should be non-porous. Therefore, appling (2) full coats should be the same. 
*****************************************************************
To answer your question, the customer asked me, "do you get a discount on paint"! He then suggested using Aura, due to the fact that he painted his living room himself and loved the product. So I suggested that he get the paint himself. *Saving me the legwork!* 

In this situation, what would my benefit be to buy the paint?


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

PhillysFinest said:


> Thank you!
> 
> I disagree!
> 
> ...


You ever hear the phrase "true color" or "true sheen"?

Even though the wall is primed, there is still porosity and one coat of finish will not make the coating "true". 

If you study a substrate at a microscopic level, you can see how porous a primed substrate actually is. Now, practically, it is sealed well enough for it's intended purpose, yet this reality is translated by how the first and second coats respond.

Sent from my MB508 using Paint Talk


----------



## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

Im actually going to write a book about rocket science and painting now, this thread should help...

Maybe ill do a chapter on obnoxious people from philly


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

StripandCaulk said:


> Im actually going to write a book about rocket science and painting now, this thread should help...


Fo sho

Although I found some secrets of life by studying how paint responds in different situations.

Sent from my MB508 using Paint Talk


----------



## PhillysFinest (Jun 9, 2012)

TJ Paint said:


> You ever hear the phrase "true color" or "true sheen"?
> 
> Even though the wall is primed, there is still porosity and one coat of finish will not make the coating "true".
> 
> ...


TJ - I DID NOT paint over builders paint where the drywall would be like a sponge. I removed wallpaper, then primed with an oil base primer. On the second coat, I put it on just as thick and generous as the first! 

So, I used just as much paint on the second coat as the first! Explain that?

************************************************************
The coverage obtained from any gallon of paint is dependent on its nonvolatile (solids) content. One gallon occupies a volume of 231 cubic inches or 0.1337 cubic feet. If a gallon of paint contained 100% solids and if it could be applied without losses, the coverage obtained from one gallon of such a paint applied to a film thickness of 1 mil (0.001 inch or 0.0000833 foot) would be 1604 square feet (.1337/.0000833). This figure is expressed as the theoretical coverage per gallon.
Theoretical coverage per gallon is found in the Technical Data sections of Dampney product bulletins and is expressed as mil sq. ft. The term mil sq. ft. means that for a coating of given percent solids by volume (also found in the Technical Data sections), the coverage is the theoretical number of square feet covered by one gallon of paint spread at a thickness of 1 mil dry. For example, if a coating were 45% solids by volume, its theoretical coverage would be 1604 X 0.45 or 722 square feet at 1 mil dry film thickness. If a specification called for a dry film thickness of 2 mils, the theoretical coverage would then be 722 square feet divided by 2 mils, or 361 square feet per gallon. The wet film thickness required would be 2 divided by .45 or 4.4 mils.


----------



## matt19422 (Oct 2, 2009)

removed my comment after reading phillysfinest posts and comments.


----------



## PhillysFinest (Jun 9, 2012)

StripandCaulk said:


> Im actually going to write a book about rocket science and painting now, this thread should help...
> 
> Maybe ill do a chapter on obnoxious people from philly


Dude, an oil base primer creates a non porous surface or vapor barrier.

Stick to "rocket science, or telling jokes"! :jester:


----------



## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Guys, lets leave the "rocket science" to planpainter, as he actually was one. :yes:


----------



## oldpaintdoc (Apr 11, 2010)

PhillysFinest said:


> Thank you!
> 
> I disagree!
> 
> ...


You disagree? Ohhh what a surprise!

What benefit to you to buy paint? The 30% mark up on materials maybe?


----------



## PhillysFinest (Jun 9, 2012)

oldpaintdoc said:


> You disagree? Ohhh what a surprise!
> 
> What benefit to you to buy paint? The 30% mark up on materials maybe?


Not when this customer wanted my paint discount! And he knows how much the paint costs due to using it himself!


----------



## scottjr (Jan 14, 2012)

PhillysFinest said:


> Not when this customer wanted my paint discount! And he knows how much the paint costs due to using it himself!


As far as the paint discount, it is my discount, not my customers. 
BTW not all painters from philly are like this.
Just saying.


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

PhillysFinest said:


> Not when this customer wanted my paint discount! And he knows how much the paint costs due to using it himself!


Rule #1: get better customers, all the rest of this is bs because the rule isn't followed.

If your customer cares about a half gallon of paint, well, nuff said.

Sent from my MB508 using Paint Talk


----------



## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

Through repetition I've learned that when brushing and rolling drywall if I use 50 gal for the first coat I will order 40 gal for the second coat and it works out just about right. It's 5 to 4 for me. But for the original post I would've ordered a five gallon bucket for the job. If I think I'll need more than three gal I just get a five.


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Oden said:


> Through repetition I've learned that when brushing and rolling drywall if I use 50 gal for the first coat I will order 40 gal for the second coat and it works out just about right. It's 5 to 4 for me. But for the original post I would've ordered a five gallon bucket for the job. If I think I'll need more than three gal I just get a five.


Me too, unless I need new cut cans. 

Sent from my MB508 using Paint Talk


----------



## Carl (Jun 18, 2011)

I have noticed over the last few years with Benjamin Moore that I use almost the same amount of paint on the second coat as I did on the first coat. Other painters I work with have noticed the same thing. I believe this is just Benjamin Moore doing what they have to do to sell more product but I know that is a total conspiracy theory. I also believe they are turning the Regal line into crap so that everyone buys Aura. Are we allowed to say these kinds of things here?


----------



## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

PhillysFinest said:


> Dude, an oil base primer creates a non porous surface or vapor barrier.
> 
> Stick to "rocket science, or telling jokes"! :jester:


Really? thanks for letting me know. Im sure everyone is just thrilled to have you teaching them so much here. I mean that in the most sarcastic way possible.


----------



## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

Some painters will notice they use more paint on the second coat, some notice less. In either case learn to shut up when customers ask questions. If and when a customer backs you into a corner - learn to make **** up on the spot. I would have told hime the roller sleeve was shedding and had to be replaced - and that's why you used more paint on the second coat. Life is too short to figure out why you use the same, more, less paint on a second coat, and shorter yet to get involved with dumb customers who want to pry into such stupid matters. 

Being a painter isn't all about just painting. It's learning how to survive.


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

plainpainter said:


> Some painters will notice they use more paint on the second coat, some notice less. In either case learn to shut up when customers ask questions. If and when a customer backs you into a corner - learn to make **** up on the spot. I would have told hime the roller sleeve was shedding and had to be replaced - and that's why you used more paint on the second coat. Life is too short to figure out why you use the same, more, less paint on a second coat, and shorter yet to get involved with dumb customers who want to pry into such stupid matters.
> 
> Being a painter isn't all about just painting. It's learning how to survive.


Yep. I would have opted for the alpha response, which would sit him down and afterwards he would know to stay the hell outta micromanaging my project... It is quite queer, however, that I haven't run into a situation like this for as long as I can remember...

Perhaps it's because the customers I work with don't want to involve themselves, that's why they hired a professional in the first place.

Sent from my MB508 using Paint Talk


----------



## PhillysFinest (Jun 9, 2012)

Carl said:


> I have noticed over the last few years with Benjamin Moore that I use almost the same amount of paint on the second coat as I did on the first coat. Other painters I work with have noticed the same thing. I believe this is just Benjamin Moore doing what they have to do to sell more product but I know that is a total conspiracy theory. I also believe they are turning the Regal line into crap so that everyone buys Aura. Are we allowed to say these kinds of things here?


Most guys don't put the (2) coat on as thick! What they do is stretch it out!


----------



## PhillysFinest (Jun 9, 2012)

plainpainter said:


> Some painters will notice they use more paint on the second coat, some notice less. In either case learn to shut up when customers ask questions. If and when a customer backs you into a corner - learn to make **** up on the spot. I would have told hime the roller sleeve was shedding and had to be replaced - and that's why you used more paint on the second coat. Life is too short to figure out why you use the same, more, less paint on a second coat, and shorter yet to get involved with dumb customers who want to pry into such stupid matters.
> 
> Being a painter isn't all about just painting. It's learning how to survive.


He bought the paint so he wanted to know. Well, the things customers come up with is amazing. I always have an answer for them, believe me!

I simply told him that I put the second coat on just as thick as the first! And with an Oil Base primer on the walls, the 1st coat didn't absorb into the drywall.


----------



## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

PhillysFinest said:


> Most guys don't put the (2) coat on as thick! What they do is stretch it out!


This may be sheen dependent. A lot of painters use flat paint on walls - I actually like satin sheen for walls, and stretching out the paint affects the sheen. If using Regal Matte - then that gets stretched out, heck I have a 50% success rate with only one coating with that paint and calling it a day.


----------



## PhillysFinest (Jun 9, 2012)

TJ Paint said:


> Yep. I would have opted for the alpha response, which would sit him down and afterwards he would know to stay the hell outta micromanaging my project... It is quite queer, however, that I haven't run into a situation like this for as long as I can remember...
> 
> Perhaps it's because the customers I work with don't want to involve themselves, that's why they hired a professional in the first place.
> 
> Sent from my MB508 using Paint Talk


TJ - I haven't dealt with a guy like this in a long time either.
Problem is, he has done his own painting & paperhanging, and he questions everything I do. 

He is also retired and is home all day long! I can't wait to get the hell outta there!


----------



## PhillysFinest (Jun 9, 2012)

plainpainter said:


> This may be sheen dependent. A lot of painters use flat paint on walls - I actually like satin sheen for walls, and stretching out the paint affects the sheen. If using Regal Matte - then that gets stretched out, heck I have a 50% success rate with only one coating with that paint and calling it a day.


This was a wallpaper removal job, coverstain primer, then matte finish.

So you like satin sheen - and if the homeowner doesn't want satin - does it matter what you like?


----------



## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

How much did you charge for labor?


----------



## PhillysFinest (Jun 9, 2012)

NEPS.US said:


> How much did you charge for labor?


Not enough!

*Labor prices only*



*Foyer Stairway & Hall*: remove wallpaper and paste, prime walls, ceiling & wall - apply (2) finish coats. $1,200.00
There is more to the area then shown in the pic.


----------



## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Why did you let the HO control materials on your project?


----------



## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

PhillysFinest said:


> Most guys don't put the (2) coat on as thick! What they do is stretch it out!


Maybe if all they use is flat. If you have any angular sheen, dryf*cking the walls is more detrimental than holidays.


----------



## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

PhillysFinest said:


> This was a wallpaper removal job, coverstain primer, then matte finish.
> 
> So you like satin sheen - and if the homeowner doesn't want satin - does it matter what you like?


 If they ask what I would use, I tell them satin. This doesn't mean they will choose satin, but they'll choose it more often than if I don't speak up.


----------



## PhillysFinest (Jun 9, 2012)

He wanted Aura, he used it himself in the living room. While giving the estimate, he asked me if I could get the paint at a discount, so I told him I will just furnish labor. 

As soon as I hear "do you get the paint at a discount?" It pisses me off. My attitude is, you can save me the gas, time and troube and get it yourself.

Normally, I get all paints and supplies.


----------



## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

You may want to revise your estimating/sales tactics and the way you do business. In all honestly you hold zero control with your clients from your posts on here.

If you are giving out just labor and letting them buy the paint because they ask if you had a discount...then complaining about it.


----------



## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

PhillysFinest said:


> He wanted Aura, he used it himself in the living room. While giving the estimate, he asked me if I could get the paint at a discount, so I told him I will just furnish labor.
> 
> As soon as I hear "do you get the paint at a discount?" It pisses me off. My attitude is, you can save me the gas, time and troube and get it yourself.
> 
> Normally, I get all paints and supplies.


Do you break out labor and materials on your estimates?

In the future I would explain that of course you have a discount on materials ad if they would like to be responsible for materials there will be a $250.00 surcharge per room and if there is a delay in material delivery there will be additional charges.

I agree with others, you need better customers. You had some ignorant comments in the Facebook thread as well. Perhaps your attitude fits your customer base perfectly. The world needs ditch diggers.


----------



## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

StripandCaulk said:


> You may want to revise your estimating/sales tactics and the way you do business. In all honestly you hold zero control with your clients from your posts on here.
> 
> If you are giving out just labor and letting them buy the paint because they ask if you had a discount...then complaining about it.


 I don't think it's his sales, it's the trades. I have otherwise great customers for other services - the second they ask for a paint estimate, they transmogrify into hellions looking for everything for nothing. It's by far the lowest profit margin work I do, not considering all the extra freebies - and yet homeowners get all weird about pricing. Yet roofers are getting as much as $600/square in my area now - and I can't believe how they're doing it.


----------



## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

plainpainter said:


> I don't think it's his sales, it's the trades. I have otherwise great customers for other services - the second they ask for a paint estimate, they transmogrify into hellions looking for everything for nothing. It's by far the lowest profit margin work I do, not considering all the extra freebies - and yet homeowners get all weird about pricing. Yet roofers are getting as much as $600/square in my area now - and I can't believe how they're doing it.


 Its sales..dont take this the wrong way dan but ive read your threads. You complain about the other trades, the economy, how people shop on price. But there are still plenty of people turning a good profit in the industry at the margins they need. Letting the customer push you around is loosing control. Control is established in the sale, it can set the tone of the job and your relationship with the client. Other trades shouldnt have an impact on you. 

I can tell you from your posts you are straight up selling on price, your customers dont see the value and you have not built it for them. Customer asks if you get a discount on paint, that is one of the same. Too many contractors let people push them around and dont value the product and service they offer.


----------



## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

StripandCaulk said:


> I can tell you from your posts you are straight up selling on price, your customers dont see the value and you have not built it for them. Customer asks if you get a discount on paint, that is one of the same. Too many contractors let people push them around and dont value the product and service they offer.


 This is straight up the most ignorant thing I have ever read. You have no idea what I make. The economy did have an affect on pricing, I did less work as a result. This year work is cranking. I've been involved in many different trades and I can say wholeheartedly, painting is by far the worst trade to be involved in. Personally, I think it's because it's the trade with the least professional non-selling contractors involved. Landscapers can bid $45/hr for simple labor all day long. If I tried that on homeowner they would freak. 

I have absolutely no complaints this year. I can afford to market to attract enough leads to find enough good paying customers. My problems were solved the day I decided to get away from painting. Heck, I've even lost some prior customers this year for other services the second they asked for a paint estimate - it's so bad that i previously thought I would supply paint quotes to only my good repeat customers, I am even thinking of dissolving that and ending painting altogether.


----------



## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

plainpainter said:


> , I am even thinking of dissolving that and ending painting altogether.


Oh God no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You would have to turn in your PT password and decoder ring!

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> Oh God no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> You would have to turn in your PT password and decoder ring!
> 
> NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 yes it will be a sad day, but I did paint a pool apron a few weeks ago.


----------



## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

plainpainter said:


> yes it will be a sad day, but I did paint a pool apron a few weeks ago.


That gets you 12 months free then.


----------



## PhillysFinest (Jun 9, 2012)

NEPS.US said:


> Do you break out labor and materials on your estimates?


I normally give a price that incorporates paint and labor together. 
I don't put in writing how many gallons or what I pay per gallon. 



NEPS.US said:


> In the future I would explain that of course you have a discount on materials ad if they would like to be responsible for materials there will be a $250.00 surcharge per room and if there is a delay in material delivery there will be additional charges.


How do you justify a $250.00 surcharge per room? I would like to see your contracts.





NEPS.US said:


> I agree with others, you need better customers. You had some ignorant comments in the Facebook thread as well. Perhaps your attitude fits your customer base perfectly. The world needs ditch diggers.



how can you tell an a-hole customer prior to starting the job? He seemed like a nice guy!
How does my attitude regarding a facebook thread justify a customer being a picky a-hole? I do have tons of customers that are wonderful customers. You mean to tell me, you never ran into a difficult customer? BTW - the man is very happy with my work and service.
And please, if you feel I made any ignorant comments on a different thread, I would hope you could point them out to me on that specific thread, so I can justify my posts, instead of mentioning it here, in an off topic fashion!

Thanks!


----------



## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

less paint more water on the 2nd coat .......get with it noob


----------



## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

Isn't Jack a practitioner of watering his paint down?


----------



## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

plainpainter said:


> Isn't Jack a practitioner of watering his paint down?


 
the correct term is ''reducing'' ......an yes he does as should most if you know when an how to......not all the time


----------



## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

And to think I chose to take my son to the amusement park today when I could have been here for this instead? What was I thinking?


----------



## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

Funny, never found a practical use for 'reducing' latex paint.


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

PhillysFinest said:


> Dude, an oil base primer creates a non porous surface or vapor barrier.
> 
> Stick to "rocket science, or telling jokes"! :jester:


Actually, as much as I hate to say it, you are wrong here.

Take a deep breath, please. Count to 10..., do what you need to do.

Ready? 

No? Not yet?

Ok, count to 10 again.

Ready?

Ok, by priming with an oil based coating, you _did_ seal the original surface (assuming you applied it correctly and that the original surface was not terribly outrageous), _but that does not mean_ the primed surface is not porous. It is. It is designed to be. Coverstain dries to a ultra flat finish. Flat finishes, especially those of primers are porous. 

This means the first coat of finish paint will require, in general, more product than a second. There are caveats to this rule, which you have experienced, as have I. When matte or flat finishes like the aura you applied are second coated, they will probably require more product than say an eggshell or satin. Again, this is because mattes and flats dry to a greater porosity.

But, the paint isn't the problem, it's your customer, or, more honestly, it's your relationship with your customer.


----------



## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

plainpainter said:


> Funny, never found a practical use for 'reducing' latex paint.


 
even funnier that you havent found a practical use for ''WORK'' either


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

You know, I haven't really considered reducing paint much for projects, except when the paint kinda sucks like with Super Spec.

It helps it flow better and stuff.

Maybe this is an area I can focus on to help my margins...


----------



## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

TJ Paint said:


> You know, I haven't really considered reducing paint much for projects, except when the paint kinda sucks like with Super Spec.
> 
> It helps it flow better and stuff.
> 
> Maybe this is an area I can focus on to help my margins...


 
mainly on interior 2nd coats during residential re-paints but not limited to espicially when working outside an you need to retard dry time to keep a wet edge or something ........i always cut my coverstain, usually a splash of thinners in my can or if im using a lot ill just cut the entire gallon so its even .......no real science to it just kinda know when an when not to


----------



## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

plainpainter said:


> This is straight up the most ignorant thing I have ever read. You have no idea what I make. The economy did have an affect on pricing, I did less work as a result. This year work is cranking. I've been involved in many different trades and I can say wholeheartedly, painting is by far the worst trade to be involved in. Personally, I think it's because it's the trade with the least professional non-selling contractors involved. Landscapers can bid $45/hr for simple labor all day long. If I tried that on homeowner they would freak.
> 
> I have absolutely no complaints this year. I can afford to market to attract enough leads to find enough good paying customers. My problems were solved the day I decided to get away from painting. Heck, I've even lost some prior customers this year for other services the second they asked for a paint estimate - it's so bad that i previously thought I would supply paint quotes to only my good repeat customers, I am even thinking of dissolving that and ending painting altogether.


 
I dont care how much you make, its really not pertinent or any of my business. You clearly sell on price though, it is the focus of your response to me..and a solid half of your threads. Im not trying to put you down dan, im just saying that you wouldnt be complaining about other trades, homeowners and the economy if you were getting your margins. Do you go up against the guys standing outside home depot?

If you are so done with painting what are you doing instead? Did quote watch take off?


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Come on guys...

Take it to the octagon.


----------



## PhillysFinest (Jun 9, 2012)

TJ Paint said:


> Actually, as much as I hate to say it, you are wrong here.
> 
> Take a deep breath, please. Count to 10..., do what you need to do.
> 
> ...


TJ - (simple experiment), if you were to splash a cup of water on coverstain, it would virtually run off the wall and not a drop would absorb into the drywall paper skin.

As I stated in my first post - I used just as much paint on the second coat as the first! 

I don't have any relationship problem with my customer. The guy is retired and is home all day. The man actually likes me and we have nice convos throughout the day! 

I already completed 3 rooms in his home and he is tickled pink. After all - I am the best!


----------



## PhillysFinest (Jun 9, 2012)

TJ Paint said:


> Actually, as much as I hate to say it, you are wrong here.
> 
> Take a deep breath, please. Count to 10..., do what you need to do.
> 
> ...


*po·rous*

   [pawr-uhs, pohr-] Show IPA 
adjective 
1. full of pores. 
2. permeable by water, air, etc. 

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/porous?s=t

Fact - Water will not penetrate coverstain.


----------



## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Have a great day filling holes a...

You really should learn about sheens and reflectivity.


----------



## PhillysFinest (Jun 9, 2012)

Zinsser: Bulls Eye&® Odorless Oil Based Stain Blocker is a stain blocker that provides oil performance without the usual odor. Its high-hiding coverage kills stains from water, graffiti, ink and crayon, and dries quickly. *Its ability to seal porous surfaces* and high pH resistance makes it great for masonry, plaster and fast-set joint compounds.

http://www.stainblockingprimers.com/oil_whomakes.asp


----------



## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

As stated previously,are they really concerned about a 1/2 gallon of paint?? I could see if it was 5 or ten maybe.
Most "Painters" apply the paint more liberally than HO's. Ho's like to make a gallon go along way.
Customers like this are the worst. Not to be a douche,but I will not allow them to buy the paint but I am in a totally different"business model"
I always let them know I get a huge discount on paint & materials & that I pass that savings on to them therefore making the idea of them getting the paint a non issue. I like when they say,"I usually do all of my own painting but if you give me a good price I'll let you do it"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WTF


----------



## mpminter (Mar 21, 2011)

plainpainter said:


> Funny, never found a practical use for 'reducing' latex paint.


I have reduced certain paints in certain situations. I don't use water in latex, I prefer XIM extender. One good example is SW Pro Mar 200. That stuff is so thick that adding 6 -10oz./ gallon of XIM really makes brushing it alot nicer. I also just finished using about 16 gallons of SW exterior oil based wood primer which I reduced 10% with thinner. That's another thick, high solids product that is much easier to work with once reduced. I don't reduce paints to get more out of a gallon, I reduce them to make them easier to apply and achieve better finishes.


----------



## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

PhillysFinest said:


> TJ - (simple experiment), if you were to splash a cup of water on coverstain, it would virtually run off the wall and not a drop would absorb into the drywall paper skin.
> 
> As I stated in my first post - I used just as much paint on the second coat as the first!
> 
> ...


 He went 3 rooms in pink!?


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

mpminter said:


> I have reduced certain paints in certain situations. I don't use water in latex, I prefer XIM extender. One good example is SW Pro Mar 200. That stuff is so thick that adding 6 -10oz./ gallon of XIM really makes brushing it alot nicer. I also just finished using about 16 gallons of SW exterior oil based wood primer which I reduced 10% with thinner. That's another thick, high solids product that is much easier to work with once reduced. I don't reduce paints to get more out of a gallon, I reduce them to make them easier to apply and achieve better finishes.


I have always like promar 200 just like it is out of the can myself. Always felt it went on great. Super spec is a bit different.

Sent from my MB508 using Paint Talk


----------



## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Philly,

If absorption rate is the same for both coats, then same amount of paint. First coat on raw rock, plaster, or wood OBVIOUSLY uses more paint.

BTW, where do you find these customers you have?

I've heard of better customers found on Craig's list. :whistling2:

whatever you do, do not pander to them, they'll start recommending you to their a-hole friends, and you'll be know as Philly's Finest Painter for A-holes.

and you truck will soon read: "Painter for Philly's Best A-Holes" . . . . NO THANK YOU :thumbup:


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

PhillysFinest said:


> *po·rous*
> 
> [pawr-uhs, pohr-] Show IPA
> adjective
> ...





PhillysFinest said:


> Zinsser: Bulls Eye&® Odorless Oil Based Stain Blocker is a stain blocker that provides oil performance without the usual odor. Its high-hiding coverage kills stains from water, graffiti, ink and crayon, and dries quickly. *Its ability to seal porous surfaces* and high pH resistance makes it great for masonry, plaster and fast-set joint compounds.
> 
> http://www.stainblockingprimers.com/oil_whomakes.asp


Again, I do agree that coverstain _will_ seal the substrate (if coated properly for the given surface), but that does not mean it is not porous. I think it may be a matter of semantics at this point, but please behr with me...

Why does coverstain primer work?
It does a few things wonderfully: it seals the substrate, it blocks stains, it also bonds well. It also does what most primers do, which is to create a surface ready to receive a finish coating. Contrast this to a surface consisting of a hard oil enamel. Paint won't take well to that surface. 
Why?

There is no tooth. Coverstain primer offers that tooth, it calmly says to the finish paint, "_come here you wonderful aura, this will be your new home now_". 

Now, if you were to look real close to the coverstain film, like with a microscope, you would see the teeth, or pores. This is like a million little landing strips for the finish to end it's long journey from the factory to it's destination. 

Where does all this bring us to?

Beats me.


----------



## pucks101 (Mar 29, 2012)

PhillysFinest said:


> Avoid my question then answer a question with a question? :no:


Is my wife on here? 

To answer the original question, I tend to use a little less paint on 2nd coat. Mostly talking about interior, and typically with Regal Eggshell (I guess I'm one of the few who still like it...)

Key phrase being "tend to", because this is not 100% of the time due to the amount of variables involved.


----------



## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Bill, this whole bit on nonsence needs to be shut down also:yes:

JMO


----------



## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

plainpainter said:


> This is straight up the most ignorant thing I have ever read.


 So do you just skip over my posts, or am I on your ignore list?


I vote we take it easy on Philly, and give him a chance.
He came in here pretty arrogant.. a lot of us do.
Then after a bit, most of us realize we still have a lot to learn.


----------



## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

My only issue with Philly is that he really doesn't live in Philly other than that he's ok in my book ...... Maybe slight issue with the "finest" thing as well but you know is what it is....:blink:


----------



## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Philly has been awarded a short recess. I'm closing this because it's now moot.


----------

