# Hang paper without priming first?



## lynnerey

I will be hanging paper in a client's kitchen. The walls are painted with eggshell paint, and have never been papered. Is priming still necessary? Has anyone hung paper on painted walls without priming first? The paper is York's "Sure Strip"."


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## jennifertemple

If it were me, I'd just go without priming on painted walls.


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## chrisn

It takes all of an hour to prime the walls, do it RIGHT and prime with a proper wall covering primer


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## Fman

A very large, technically reputable, commercial contractor I worked for hung all vinyl and any paper they did on raw sheetrock. Having hung a bit of paper myself, I once asked why they didn't prime. The boss looked at me like I was from Mars because, of course they would they would get the drywall repair in a few years when the tenant moved or remodeled. "DUH". There's money in them chunks of drywall.


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## Brushman4

Fman said:


> A very large, technically reputable, commercial contractor I worked for hung all vinyl and any paper they did on raw sheetrock. Having hung a bit of paper myself, I once asked why they didn't prime. The boss looked at me like I was from Mars because, of course they would they would get the drywall repair in a few years when the tenant moved or remodeled. "DUH". There's money in them chunks of drywall.


Been there, done that! The only problem is if your company didn't do the original job, some dumb ass estimator would come out and pull a few feet of the vinyl off with no problem and bid it like it was properly primed. You get there with a crew and the vinyl pulls half of the sheetrock off with it.
You call the shop and the dumb ass estimator says, "well I pulled a couple of feet off with no problem", then tells you just get the fricken job done!


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## rosespainting

primer is not necessary over already painted walls... I would still use wall prep before putting the paper up. 

I typically prefer oil primer under paper, but have used papers and adhesive that recommend water based not oil.


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## Gwarel

Primer Sealer. The second word is the key when hanging paper. Eggshell may seal the wall but then again, maybe not. Paste will penetrate into flat paint and that's what causes all the problems down the road. As for hanging commercial vinyl over bare rock, strippable clay adhesive will release from the drywall once it is completely cured, but the vwc will strip and the adhesive will remain. I'm with Chris.....do it right.


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## Woodco

Yeah. I usually gardz it no matter what, but occasionally, I'll skip it. Flick a little water on the wall. If it soaks in at all, it needs to be primed. But, its better to be on the safe side and do it anyway. There might be crappy paint underneath the eggshell that the paste moisture can reactivate.

Or, you can skip the primer, and make whoever has to remove it have a crappy day, as well as keep your fingers crossed that the seams hold.

Also, paste will not stick to most oil base. Paint OR primer. I'd skip it altogether. If you use oil, you need to put a waterborne on top of it, so you might as well just use waterborne to begin with.


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## finishesbykevyn

lynnerey said:


> I will be hanging paper in a client's kitchen. The walls are painted with eggshell paint, and have never been papered. Is priming still necessary? Has anyone hung paper on painted walls without priming first? The paper is York's "Sure Strip"."


Sizing the walls is proper, but your paper will stick to the eggshell no problem. Give them a light poles and first..
I would explain to the HO the option of priming or not..


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## Packard

Brushman4 said:


> Been there, done that! The only problem is if your company didn't do the original job, some dumb ass estimator would come out and pull a few feet of the vinyl off with no problem and bid it like it was properly primed. You get there with a crew and the vinyl pulls half of the sheetrock off with it.
> You call the shop and the dumb ass estimator says, "well I pulled a couple of feet off with no problem", then tells you just get the fricken job done!


It will pull plaster too. Not just sheetrock.


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## Brushman4

Woodco said:


> Yeah. I usually gardz it no matter what, but occasionally, I'll skip it. Flick a little water on the wall. If it soaks in at all, it needs to be primed. But, its better to be on the safe side and do it anyway. There might be crappy paint underneath the eggshell that the paste moisture can reactivate.
> 
> Or, you can skip the primer, and make whoever has to remove it have a crappy day, as well as keep your fingers crossed that the seams hold.
> 
> Also, paste will not stick to most oil base. Paint OR primer. I'd skip it altogether. If you use oil, you need to put a waterborne on top of it, so you might as well just use waterborne to begin with.


Years ago we used to prime new sheetrock walls that were to receive VWC in hotels and large office towers with flat oil, some guy used to add a gallon of eggshell to each fiver of flat, claiming it gave it more slip.:surprise:


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## Vinyl 54X

Just to be safe give it a coat of right arm.


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## jennifertemple

chrisn said:


> It takes all of an hour to prime the walls, do it RIGHT and prime with a proper wall covering primer



What is a proper wall covering primer?


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## Woodco

Brushman4 said:


> Years ago we used to prime new sheetrock walls that were to receive VWC in hotels and large office towers with flat oil, some guy used to add a gallon of eggshell to each fiver of flat, claiming it gave it more slip.:surprise:


oil priming under wallcoverings used to be good, until they reformulated oils for low VOC. Now paste doesnt stick too well. Commercial clay based might though..

Although, oil primer seals the wall TOO well for commercial vinyl. The paste would stay wet for a week...

Moisture permeability is important when hanging vinyl. Vinyl will tear off in big sheets, even if the wall wasnt primed, and unprimed walls will help the paste dry. sealing the surface is good, but you dont want to seal it TOO much.


With paper, however, unprimed walls make future removal a nightmare.


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## Brushman4

Woodco said:


> oil priming under wallcoverings used to be good, until they reformulated oils for low VOC. Now paste doesnt stick too well. Commercial clay based might though..
> 
> Although, oil primer seals the wall TOO well for commercial vinyl. The paste would stay wet for a week...
> 
> Moisture permeability is important when hanging vinyl. Vinyl will tear off in big sheets, even if the wall wasnt primed, and unprimed walls will help the paste dry. sealing the surface is good, but you dont want to seal it TOO much.
> 
> 
> With paper, however, unprimed walls make future removal a nightmare.


Your point about the VOC's in today's oils is well taken, but years ago this is how it was done, even though everyone bitched about the smell.


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## Vinyl 54X

jennifertemple said:


> What is a proper wall covering primer?


Roman, Pro 935 it seals and promotes adhesion, Which means it makes the walls sticky after it dries. I used to use it when hanging vinyl over vinyl. I hate VOV paste.


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## Woodco

Vinyl 54X said:


> Roman, Pro 935 it seals and promotes adhesion, Which means it makes the walls sticky after it dries. I used to use it when hanging vinyl over vinyl. I hate VOV paste.


It be good for vinyl or hard to hang stuff, overkill for regular paper if you ask me.


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## Woodco

Brushman4 said:


> Your point about the VOC's in today's oils is well taken, but years ago this is how it was done, even though everyone bitched about the smell.


Most of my jobs are one day deals. I walk in, get a thin coat of primer on the wall, aim a fan at it, set up my table, cut the strips, eat lunch, then hang. With oil, I'd have to wait another day.

I dont see any benefit to priming with oil nowadays even if paste DID stick to it. We have plenty of good waterborne products to choose from. Between Gardz, and Sheildz, theres just no reason to use oil.


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## Vinyl 54X

Woodco said:


> It be good for vinyl or hard to hang stuff, overkill for regular paper if you ask me.


Yes, It has no slide to it, probably not good for paper.


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## Brushman4

Woodco said:


> Most of my jobs are one day deals. I walk in, get a thin coat of primer on the wall, aim a fan at it, set up my table, cut the strips, eat lunch, then hang. With oil, I'd have to wait another day.
> 
> I dont see any benefit to priming with oil nowadays even if paste DID stick to it. We have plenty of good waterborne products to choose from. Between Gardz, and Sheildz, theres just no reason to use oil.


Again, I'm not telling you what to use, only how we did it then! I see that you're doing mostly one day jobs, they call that blow and go around here.

Why not just skip the priming and throw the stuff on the wall, think of the extra profit?

With it, you might be able to squeeze a weekend in Vegas every month.


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## Woodco

Brushman4 said:


> Again, I'm not telling you what to use, only how we did it then! I see that you're doing mostly one day jobs, they call that blow and go around here.
> 
> Why not just skip the priming and throw the stuff on the wall, think of the extra profit?
> 
> With it, you might be able to squeeze a weekend in Vegas every month.


So...Why are you talking about what you did years ago? Us younger folk have BETTER ways to do stuff now. 

Also, "Blow and go?" My 'blow and go' jobs that you speak of are high dollar single wall treatments, or bathrooms. I dont think those words mean what you think they do....


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## Brushman4

Woodco said:


> So...Why are you talking about what you did years ago? Us younger folk have BETTER ways to do stuff now.
> 
> Also, "Blow and go?" My 'blow and go' jobs that you speak of are high dollar single wall treatments, or bathrooms. I dont think those words mean what you think they do....


High dollar, single wall treatments, what the f does that even mean?

Are you saying that your maximizing profit because you don't want to properly prep, mean what you think you mean?


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## EveryDay

chrisn said:


> It takes all of an hour to prime the walls, do it RIGHT and prime with a proper wall covering primer


It's *PASTE*, not glue

Tooth paste doesn't glue, (just polishes your teeth).
Shoe polish paste doesn't glue, (just polishes your shoes).
So how come suddenly wall paper "paste" it's not a glue ??
I think it's just a wall paper glue that has a consistency of a paste.

I HERE HEREBY DECLARE THAT IT IS PERFECTLY OK TO CALL a WALL PAPER GLUE a GLUE.
Stop pasting yourselves with antiquated obsolete unrelated terminology. 
Anything that attaches two things togheter is a..glue. Regardless if it has a consistency of a liquid or a paste. 
STOP THE INSANITY PLEASE.


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## EveryDay

Let me solve the Egyptian mystery.

Room has four walls.
Dude is glueing wall paper to only one wall. 
Dude is done before the Pharaoh wakes up to let out his morning fart to fly out out of the opening in the two feet thick stone wall. 
Dude is faster than Egyptian Pharaoh fart.
Still put that Dude down on PT.


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## Woodco

Brushman4 said:


> High dollar, single wall treatments, what the f does that even mean?
> 
> Are you saying that your maximizing profit because you don't want to properly prep, mean what you think you mean?


It means I have designers paying me big bucks to hang expensive paper on an accent wall. It usually only takes me about 6 hours to do so. And I DO prep it properly, granted without a crossline, usually, but I float the wall if its textured, and prime it with a proper wallpaper primer. How is that cutting corners??

Do you know why they used to prime with oil back in the old days?? The same reason they used to PAINT walls with oil. CUZ THATS ALL THEY HAD. We have new and better products at our disposal. Get with the times.


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## Vinyl 54X

If it's one wall across town and you have nothing else lined up in the area you charge accordingly. People get bummed out if you do that 1 wall and charge for the full day and bail at 9am. Bathrooms on the other hand gouge away, there is never too much you can charge for them ever. Are primers and adhesives better now? they are a lot safer and there is less to choose from. The times are a changing.


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## Vinyl 54X

EveryDay said:


> It's *PASTE*, not glue
> 
> Tooth paste doesn't glue, (just polishes your teeth).
> Shoe polish paste doesn't glue, (just polishes your shoes).
> So how come suddenly wall paper "paste" it's not a glue ??
> I think it's just a wall paper glue that has a consistency of a paste.
> 
> I HERE HEREBY DECLARE THAT IT IS PERFECTLY OK TO CALL a WALL PAPER GLUE a GLUE.
> Stop pasting yourselves with antiquated obsolete unrelated terminology.
> Anything that attaches two things togheter is a..glue. Regardless if it has a consistency of a liquid or a paste.
> STOP THE INSANITY PLEASE.


All buckets say Adhesive.


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## Brushman4

Woodco said:


> It means I have designers paying me big bucks to hang expensive paper on an accent wall. It usually only takes me about 6 hours to do so. And I DO prep it properly, granted without a crossline, usually, but I float the wall if its textured, and prime it with a proper wallpaper primer. How is that cutting corners??
> 
> Do you know why they used to prime with oil back in the old days?? The same reason they used to PAINT walls with oil. CUZ THATS ALL THEY HAD. We have new and better products at our disposal. Get with the times.


Latex paints were developed in the '40s, so not all that new!

Did you ever hear of sizing a wall? No, no, no I'm not talking about measuring it, but taking paste, adhesive, glue or whatever you want to call it and pissing it down before applying it to the wall.:biggrin:

Any other questions?


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