# Sikkens CRD Will Not Dry



## fpmr96a (May 19, 2012)

I recently re-stained a mohogany porch that had 2-year old Sikkens CRD Translucent. I scuffed up and re-applied the same product.

The problem is that the stain never dried and remained sticky for 6 weeks. Upon calling Sikkens (5 times), the conclusion was that this product should not applied over prior applications and that the original layer was repelling the new layer. They said that we should have "waited until it faded to gray or sanded to bare wood".

After 6 weeks, I sanded down to bare wood and re-applied. First, I power-washed and let it dry for several days beforehand. But, it's been 24 hours and about 30% of the decking is still sticky (better than 99% last time). This is supposed to be dry to the touch in 2 - 4 hours.

I don't know what to do if this doesn't dry. We followed the directions, brushing (no rolling) and sanding to bare wood beforehand. Is this product inferior or did we do something wrong?

Thanks,
Andrew


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## Lead painter (May 19, 2012)

fpmr96a said:


> I recently re-stained a mohogany porch that had 2-year old Sikkens CRD Translucent. I scuffed up and re-applied the same product.
> 
> The problem is that the stain never dried and remained sticky for 6 weeks. Upon calling Sikkens (5 times), the conclusion was that this product should not applied over prior applications and that the original layer was repelling the new layer. They said that we should have "waited until it faded to gray or sanded to bare wood".
> 
> ...


Are the areas thadont dry the more shaded areas of the deck?


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## doctors11 (May 17, 2010)

Why didn't you chemically strip and neutralize it?


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Sikkens is garbage now.


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## fpmr96a (May 19, 2012)

Lead painter said:


> Are the areas thadont dry the more shaded areas of the deck?


No ... The areas that haven't dried are in both full sun and shaded areas. Many areas in the shade are fully dry.


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## fpmr96a (May 19, 2012)

doctors11 said:


> Why didn't you chemically strip and neutralize it?


Customer did not want me to use stripper due to many expensive shrubs nearby. But, I sanded to bare wood and power washed.


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## tntpainting (Apr 3, 2008)

Alot has to do with what they put in these oil stains now to be more v o c compliant you have to just kinda deal with it tell them its just the sign of thetimes with all this eco- friendly crap i wont even use oil anymorr because of this. Almost all the companies that still make semi trans oil stains are having problems with shine and stick issues now brcause whatever there putting in these things now


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

NEPS.US said:


> Sikkens is garbage now.


Yep, you can now find the new box store version available soon. Its specially made for them, and the rest of us Sikkens dealers cannot buy it. Buh bye Sikkens 

As far as fixing the problem, I can tell you how bit why should I? Sikkens doesn't care about you, or their dealers....they cancelled the P3 program, they don't return calls, yours or mine. I even called them to see is a rep could come out and "spec my 6500' new log home" with no reply ....6 weeks ago. They're all concerned with their box store launch that they simply don't have time for any of us small fries. My rep died 2 years ago (was the best rep I've ever had, I know I've said that before) and I still have not met my "new" rep....or even spoke on the phone for that matter. 

They have now changed their ordering policy....any orders less than 100 gallons are subject to a flat $50 shipping fee.....OK cool. They no longer split cases, have to order in full boxes (4 gallons a box) I had a customer need 1 gallon of Cetol1 and 1 gallon 23plus. I couldn't order it....I would have had to order 8 gallons total, 4 of each product, plus a $50 shipping fee! For 2 gallons! Yeah.....


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## madochio (Oct 26, 2011)

NCPaint1 said:


> Yep, you can now find the new box store version available soon. Its specially made for them, and the rest of us Sikkens dealers cannot buy it. Buh bye Sikkens
> 
> As far as fixing the problem, I can tell you how bit why should I? Sikkens doesn't care about you, or their dealers....they cancelled the P3 program, they don't return calls, yours or mine. I even called them to see is a rep could come out and "spec my 6500' new log home" with no reply ....6 weeks ago. They're all concerned with their box store launch that they simply don't have time for any of us small fries. My rep died 2 years ago (was the best rep I've ever had, I know I've said that before) and I still have not met my "new" rep....or even spoke on the phone for that matter.
> 
> They have now changed their ordering policy....any orders less than 100 gallons are subject to a flat $50 shipping fee.....OK cool. They no longer split cases, have to order in full boxes (4 gallons a box) I had a customer need 1 gallon of Cetol1 and 1 gallon 23plus. I couldn't order it....I would have had to order 8 gallons total, 4 of each product, plus a $50 shipping fee! For 2 gallons! Yeah.....


gee....i get the feeling that this has hit a nerve with you
as for sikkens in the big box. it will/is a differnt product then what we as idpt dealers have. i am happy they did this, due to the fact that i will be getting calls on why it does not work. now i can tell them this product is only sold at big box, i cannot help you. 
personly i give it two years. home depo is all about behr and will continue to push behr, not sikkens. all it is to home depo is a name.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

madochio said:


> gee....i get the feeling that this has hit a nerve with you
> as for sikkens in the big box. it will/is a differnt product then what we as idpt dealers have. i am happy they did this, due to the fact that i will be getting calls on why it does not work. now i can tell them this product is only sold at big box, i cannot help you.
> personly i give it two years. home depo is all about behr and will continue to push behr, not sikkens. all it is to home depo is a name.


The problem is : people don't know the difference. They just know that you're $12/gal+ more expensive. That's it. They don't know that its a specific line, nor do they care. They simply will leave your store...period. 

Fast forward to the box store dumping Sikkens. You think you're going to rake it in now? NOT LIKELY. Remember the times before SRD? When DEK Base was around? Sikkens had an uphill battle overcoming that. They killed their name with that product ...and they will again with this mistake. Who got them out of the DEK base disaster? We did, independent dealers and contractors. You think I'm going to do it again? Not a chance.


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## Rick the painter (Mar 30, 2009)

Wow, I was just looking at some Sikkens charts today,hoping to find a product that is still decent. Right now we are using Cabots solid oil white on an old,water front beach house.I thought that the 2012 stuff would be like glue,its just the opposite.Its thin as hell,barely white,and sags,runs like crazy.What a disaster this whole v o c crap!.


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## doctors11 (May 17, 2010)

For solid stain have you tried BM Arborcoat? I've used it about six times on decks over the past year and so far they all look great. It's funny, the label says "self priming" but if you call BM tech, they still recommend an oil primer over bare wood first. I've done it both ways and can't tell the difference after a year.


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## fpmr96a (May 19, 2012)

NCPaint1 said:


> As far as fixing the problem, I can tell you how bit why should I?


I am begging you to tell me how to fix this ....

Believe me - I'm on your side regarding Sikkens. They've been jerking me around each time I called and I've been telling all of my local Painting Contractor friends about my experiences.

I'm done using their products forever!


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

fpmr96a said:


> I am begging you to tell me how to fix this ....
> 
> Believe me - I'm on your side regarding Sikkens. They've been jerking me around each time I called and I've been telling all of my local Painting Contractor friends about my experiences.
> 
> I'm done using their products forever!


Wipe it with thinner, should break the film and allow it to dry.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Penofin ftw


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

TJ Paint said:


> Penofin ftw


No dude...just no. In the world of Alkyd stains, TWP is still king, at least for a little while longer until they green it out of existence. Granted, depending on where you live, the climate, exposure, etc etc, different stains perform better. Penofin just outright sucks. It turns black with age (rapidly) and generally looks crappy pretty quick. SRD is still good, and its a shame that so many dealers plan on dropping Sikkens. I know of 7 already just in my area, and more to come.


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## fpmr96a (May 19, 2012)

NCPaint1 said:


> Wipe it with thinner, should break the film and allow it to dry.


Thank you very much ... 

Do you think the areas I wipe with thinner will discolor at all?


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

fpmr96a said:


> Thank you very much ...
> 
> Do you think the areas I wipe with thinner will discolor at all?


Nope, shouldn't. I'm guessing the wet/sticky areas are also shiny. It may dull those areas a bit. Don't worry, the whole deck will dull eventually. You probably applied too much stain, no biggie. Now you know how to fix it, and don't do that again  Its easy to end up like you did. Especially if the deck is shaded, or surrounded by landscaping. These lower VOC products need sunlight and airflow to cure properly.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> Penofin just outright sucks. It turns black with age (rapidly) and generally looks crappy pretty quick. SRD is still good,


Found that out about Penofin the hard way. 

SRD sucks now too.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

NEPS.US said:


> SARDINIA sucks now too.


We still have the good one here. I'm almost sold out, and won't be reordering :-( maybe if I absolutely have to, and only if I hit the right number, and know that I won't have leftover inventory.


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## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

With the EPA laws cracking down more and more every year..i wouldnt be surprised if sikkens goes under at some point if they cant reformulate to a good WB product. I did a mahogany deck last summer in july, it was 88 degrees outside. Had the deck cleaned and neutralized, had never been finished before. let dry for 4 days. Just left natural for the first 3 years. Gave it a light sand to open up the pores before applying the cetol SRD in natural light. Got a call a couple of days ago, HO told me it was faded pretty good and she wanted to redo it this year(unforunatley i am 2900 miles away). Also had problems with application on the garapa gold and epay. Came back a year later and it was actually peeling in some areas on the gold..i dont think it ever fully cured properly. Seemed to be tacky even 48 hours after application, very thin layer was applied as well. 

They claim there products are suitable for hardwoods, but i have used it several different types of hardwood. Mahogany, epay, Garapa Gold..it hasnt worked well for me. Honestly, i like the look of the arborcoat. From the reviews some on here have posted i would be inclined to check that out.

I have not tried it personally, but messmers is a product that is supposed to be formulated specifically for hardwoods.
http://www.messmers.com/messmers-uv-plus-for-hardwood-decks

Problem with hardwood is that it doesnt take product too well regaurdless and you will end up redoing it more often than a wood like doug fir. The pores are alot tighter, and therefore less absorbent. They are beautiful, but if you are finishing then the HO should be educated that they will require more maintenance than other decking materials to look good.


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## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

This is garapa gold decking, building behind was finished in shop with Euro X by MLC using AAA.

Used Cetol SRD for the decking, ended up redoing the next year.

Will not use again


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Hardwoods equal 6 month to one year maintenance coats. Messmers is no different. I know indignation is the first emotion. The reality is: it is what it is.


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

NEPS.US said:


> Found that out about Penofin the hard way.
> 
> SRD sucks now too.


I have been using Penofin on a customers deck for 4 years. Every time I come back I think "wow this deck looks like crap" and "i can't believe this guys has me do his deck using this product every year". It's an ipe deck and he insists I use this product. I just clean and re-apply. It looks like crap by the end of the summer and I come back the next spring. Getting ready to do it again.


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## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

It is what it is to an extent..there is a difference between products sorry. Ive seen some hardwood decks last for 2 years before needing a maintenance coat. Depends alot on how much product it is able to take in. If the pores are opened up and the deck has been out for several years unprotected typically it is going to last longer when finished. I think its more important for hardwoods to be left out than softer common decking material like pressure treated and doug fir planks. 

If you are doing maintenance coats every 6 months para, you should really take a better look at your situation


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

Correction: I used Messmers on the ipe deck last year. Same result. FYI


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

StripandCaulk said:


> building behind was finished in shop with Euro X by MLC using AAA.


That stuff is awesome, but ridiculously expensive.


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## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

Rcon said:


> That stuff is awesome, but ridiculously expensive.


True, but so worth it if you can afford it. Furniture grade exterior finish, looks incredible holds up well. When i decide to open shop back up again, i want to do more high end finishing, btw you've got a nice looking op going on based from your site Rcon. Are you exclusivley cabinet refinishing/ redooring?


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Is Arborcoat 623 the answer?


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## fpmr96a (May 19, 2012)

NCPaint1 said:


> Nope, shouldn't. I'm guessing the wet/sticky areas are also shiny. It may dull those areas a bit. Don't worry, the whole deck will dull eventually. You probably applied too much stain, no biggie. Now you know how to fix it, and don't do that again  Its easy to end up like you did. Especially if the deck is shaded, or surrounded by landscaping. These lower VOC products need sunlight and airflow to cure properly.


Thanks.... The sticky areas ARE very shiny. I did back-brush to try to minimize the amount of stain but apparantly not enough.

Also, I noticed that the boards that didn't dry are the darker ones (mohog. wood). Perhaps those are more dense making it harder for the stain to penetrate.

... and I won't be using CRD again.


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

StripandCaulk said:


> True, but so worth it if you can afford it. Furniture grade exterior finish, looks incredible holds up well. When i decide to open shop back up again, i want to do more high end finishing, btw you've got a nice looking op going on based from your site Rcon. Are you exclusivley cabinet refinishing/ redooring?


Absolutely worth it on the right project. Used it on a front door a couple of years back - little more than $500 just for the products/catalyst/reducer but gave an awesome finish that will last forever. 

Thanks for the comments on the site - I pretty much only do cabinets and wood finishing these days but will still do the odd paint job for referrals, though I don't advertise painting anymore. There's just no profit to be made in the painting trade anymore and no amount of advertising/marketing or explaining why my work will look better and last 3x as long as the next guys will make your average home owner choose me over some other guy billing out at $35/hr. 

When I show up at a potential clients home as a cabinet finisher there is no question about my skills/pricing or how Jack from down the street could do it for $15/hr. They see my work, listen to my presentation and give me the job. The work is easier, pays much better, and I spend most of my time in the shop instead of in someones house. Never looking back!!


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Rcon - site look terrific!!!!!!!!! What a great niche you have dug yourself into. The best of luck!


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

If you are going to use an oil, Armstrong Clark is the way to go. I've been using Bakers for years but their formula has changed as well. Armstrong Clark is the best VOC compliant oil on the market today.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

StripandCaulk said:


> If you are doing maintenance coats every 6 months para, you should really take a better look at your situation



I've


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

StripandCaulk said:


> If you are doing maintenance coats every 6 months para, you should really take a better look at your situation



I've built more ipe decks than I've stained. With a flammability rating equivalent to concrete, brazilian hardwoods are dense. No offense captain obvious but I have used your magic Messmers (I grew up using it in Colorado), and depending on exposure and tint (most homeowners want as little tint as possible on exotics) , 6 months to a year is not unexpected. Especially if you want an easy clean and stain maintenance cycle without bleaching. You catch it before it becomes a problem. Most people that flip coin on Ipe would rather it look good than last marginally. I didn't imply the decking would look terrible in 6 months. 

I also didn't say anything about my situation. I was speaking about yours.

You posted the problem numbnuts. 

My situation looks good, I'm coming from a place of experience in this field. and you are asking the questions.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

NEPS.US said:


> Is Arborcoat 623 the answer?


Just tossing those trolling lines out everywhere huh Neps? ;-) Ill bite, why not. 

Is it the answer? No. Is it a good alternative and another option, yes. The drawback is that you need to apply the UV protective clear coat every year. Creating more work, and expense for most people. Most folks want to do/have their deck done and forget about it for as long as possible. This won't happen with Arborcoat. The plus side is simple maintenance if you keep up on it. The stain blends very well with itself. So more or less you can touch up areas of your deck yearly prior to applying the clear coat. The idea being, keep it looking good to avoid the stripping and sanding. 

As of now there is no end all be all, so basically its pick hour poison. You wanna do that work now or later? That's how it is.


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## doctors11 (May 17, 2010)

NCPaint1 said:


> Just tossing those trolling lines out everywhere huh Neps? ;-) Ill bite, why not.
> 
> Is it the answer? No. Is it a good alternative and another option, yes. The drawback is that you need to apply the UV protective clear coat every year. Creating more work, and expense for most people. Most folks want to do/have their deck done and forget about it for as long as possible. This won't happen with Arborcoat. The plus side is simple maintenance if you keep up on it. The stain blends very well with itself. So more or less you can touch up areas of your deck yearly prior to applying the clear coat. The idea being, keep it looking good to avoid the stripping and sanding.
> 
> As of now there is no end all be all, so basically its pick hour poison. You wanna do that work now or later? That's how it is.


According to BM the 623 doesn't get the clear coat. Have you heard otherwise?


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

doctors11 said:


> According to BM the 623 doesn't get the clear coat. Have you heard otherwise?


Nope, had my product numbers confused. You are correct


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

PressurePros said:


> If you are going to use an oil, Armstrong Clark is the way to go. I've been using Bakers for years but their formula has changed as well. Armstrong Clark is the best VOC compliant oil on the market today.


 Ken, I honestly don't know how you guys are getting that stain to perform. It keeps crapping out on me from Fir to pressure treated to hardwoods. Even adding extra mildewcide seems to have no effect on mildew growth. That stain failed on my personal front porch at the 4 month mark twice in a row - never seen that happen with any other product in my life! I don't doubt what you guys are saying - but I have lost my faith in that product. On the flip side - have 9 months on my deck now with the new brand I work with and so far it's been excellent.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> Nope, had my product numbers confused. You are correct


Time to take back that post buddy. . 

I am finding that more often than not customers that have experienced issues with oil stains on hardwood decks the last few year are loving the clear coat option for maintenance. 

From my understanding the 623 came out not to eliminate the clear coat option but to make it a option. The clear can still be used as the preventive maintenance coat.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

fpmr96a said:


> Thanks.... The sticky areas ARE very shiny. I did back-brush to try to minimize the amount of stain but apparantly not enough.
> 
> Also, I noticed that the boards that didn't dry are the darker ones (mohog. wood). Perhaps those are more dense making it harder for the stain to penetrate.
> 
> ... and I won't be using CRD again.


The basic problem with deck stains and the manufacturers that make them is that when they had to shift to the lower VOC's formulation - they had to change the 'driers' in order to make it work. The problem is that the different driers are about 10X more expensive than the old driers that worked well with high VOC recipes. And they've been formulating and formulating in circles in order to find a way not to have to buy the more expensive driers. 

Nothing works, nada, unless you insert the higher priced driers. You want a see a stain that has the longevity of the good old days in a low voc formulation? http://stormstain.com/deck_fence.html I have a gutter cleaning customer with a large mahogany deck that another company services. They don't strip the old stain, they just come back, wash, and reapply the stain every 3 years. It's utter perfection. It's only drawback is that application requires a lot of experience - can easily lap, have to do one board at a time, etc. That's the only feature it lost when it went from high to low voc's. Everything else has stayed the same.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> Time to take back that post buddy. .
> 
> I am finding that more often than not customers that have experienced issues with oil stains on hardwood decks the last few year are loving the clear coat option for maintenance.
> 
> From my understanding the 623 came out not to eliminate the clear coat option but to make it a option. The clear can still be used as the preventive maintenance coat.




I agree, a quick wash and clear coat seems like the best method to keep decks in premium shape. I just started using it this year, so I don't know how well the arborcoat system will perform. 

Scott wrote an article and its up on BP, and in the comments we are seeing mixed reviews of performance. A couple reporting total failures after a 12 month cycle.


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## doctors11 (May 17, 2010)

I did a test board a few months ago with Arborcoat semi on dry pressure treated. I then clear coated half of it and let it sit for 3 weeks. I then applied BM Remove full strength on the board, let it sit for 15 minutes misting it occasionally with more Remove, scrubbed it with a stiff bristle brush, then pressure washed it.

The stain only section was removed completely, but the clear coat didn't budge. The Remove actually beaded on it and never began to work. 

I guess we can draw two conclusions. 1. The clear does a good job protecting the stain (at least in the short term). And 2. if there's ever Any reason to remove it it will probably have to be sanded off. 

I'd be curious if HD-80 would work on it.

I've done 2 projects that the homeowners requested the clear on the 2x2 pickets. Hope they never change their mind!


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

plainpainter said:


> Ken, I honestly don't know how you guys are getting that stain to perform. It keeps crapping out on me from Fir to pressure treated to hardwoods. Even adding extra mildewcide seems to have no effect on mildew growth. That stain failed on my personal front porch at the 4 month mark twice in a row - never seen that happen with any other product in my life! I don't doubt what you guys are saying - but I have lost my faith in that product. On the flip side - have 9 months on my deck now with the new brand I work with and so far it's been excellent.


The key is to not over apply.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

PressurePros said:


> The key is to not over apply.


 Ken - I haven't made that mistake in 10 years. I put two drenching coats of that TWP 200 product that is like 94%+ solids. If anything that product would overapply - and 9 months later it's still in perfect condition.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

NEPS.US said:


> Time to take back that post buddy. .
> 
> I am finding that more often than not customers that have experienced issues with oil stains on hardwood decks the last few year are loving the clear coat option for maintenance.
> 
> From my understanding the 623 came out not to eliminate the clear coat option but to make it a option. The clear can still be used as the preventive maintenance coat.


Correct, but the poster asked if it was required. I assumed he meant mandatory.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

PressurePros said:


> The key is to not over apply.


Ken - I haven't made that mistake in 10 years. I put two drenching heavy coats 24 hours apart of that TWP 200 product that is like 94%+ solids. If anything that product would overapply - and 9 months later it's still in perfect condition.

These manufactuerers can make any excuse they want, but in the end I did nothing wrong. Be warned.


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## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

Paradigmzz said:


> I've built more ipe decks than I've stained. With a flammability rating equivalent to concrete, brazilian hardwoods are dense. No offense captain obvious but I have used your magic Messmers (I grew up using it in Colorado), and depending on exposure and tint (most homeowners want as little tint as possible on exotics) , 6 months to a year is not unexpected. Especially if you want an easy clean and stain maintenance cycle without bleaching. You catch it before it becomes a problem. Most people that flip coin on Ipe would rather it look good than last marginally. I didn't imply the decking would look terrible in 6 months.
> 
> I also didn't say anything about my situation. I was speaking about yours.
> 
> ...


Somebodys not getting lucky:whistling2:


No question was asked by me buddy, but thanks for the answer. If you read my post i've never used messmers and i wasnt asking anything, again. 

I forgot that some cant read more than half a sentence before their capacity to absorb an entire post is shot. My appologies. Maybe you should stay smoking..seem to be a little cranky


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Maybe so about the tobacco. Was gonna take the higher road and apologize. But in the words of WisePainter, "Meh "


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

plainpainter said:


> Ken - I haven't made that mistake in 10 years. I put two drenching heavy coats 24 hours apart of that TWP 200 product that is like 94%+ solids. If anything that product would overapply - and 9 months later it's still in perfect condition.
> 
> These manufactuerers can make any excuse they want, but in the end I did nothing wrong. Be warned.


That's cool. Not everyone will like everything. I have decks from four years ago and have had a bunch of A/C decks. They all held up very well and maintenance was easy. The coverage rate is definitely better than the baker's as well. I've put about 20 pails on this year and maybe 50 pails (per year) in previous years so I have a good cross section of longevity. Given a choice, I would perfer the old school stains (500+ VOC) but those days are gone.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Remember guys, the 623 arbor coat is not compatible with the arbor coat clear.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

DeanV said:


> Remember guys, the 623 arbor coat is not compatible with the arbor coat clear.


Mind explaining?


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

623 translucent is for stand alone application and can be applied over existing, weathered oil stains.

The transparent, Semi-trams, semi-solid, can have the clear coat over top and may not be applied over other coatings.

The tds for 623 does not mention applying the clear. At the BM stain training course they specifically said not to apply the clear over 623. 623 is a stand alone product and designed for hardwoods. The others I do not believe are intended for hardwoods either.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Thanks Dean. I was trained the same but was told that the clear could be applied but not needed unless as a preventative coat down the road. 

It would be nice if BM supplied some more information for how and when to use some of these products. I have a feeling that they are using feedback from the field before they give any definitive answer. 

Last year BM was pushing the Alkyd Stain like crazy only to hear of dozens of failures this spring. 

This hardwood deck issue is such a pain in the ass and we as contractors look foolish pushing a different product every year.


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## fpmr96a (May 19, 2012)

NCPaint1 said:


> Wipe it with thinner, should break the film and allow it to dry.


Wiped a few test areas today with thinner. In one area it began pealing away and the other area just seemed to break the film.

8 hours later, still sticky .... Rain is expected in our area for the next 3 days. I'll be eager to check it after another sunny day.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> Thanks Dean. I was trained the same but was told that the clear could be applied but not needed unless as a preventative coat down the road.
> 
> It would be nice if BM supplied some more information for how and when to use some of these products. I have a feeling that they are using feedback from the field before they give any definitive answer.
> 
> ...



To be honest, I am beginning to think most decks just are not worth the hassle. Maintenance is iffy at best. Same for semitrans exterior shake siding. Too much variability in weathering to get consistent appearance on maintenance coats.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

DeanV said:


> To be honest, I am beginning to think most decks just are not worth the hassle. Maintenance is iffy at best. Same for semitrans exterior shake siding. Too much variability in weathering to get consistent appearance on maintenance coats.


ALERT!!!! All mods ---- Plainpainter has hacked into Deans account. Sound the alarms!!!!! Lock it down!!!


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

You know, even a broken clock is right twice a day.....


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

PressurePros said:


> That's cool. Not everyone will like everything. I have decks from four years ago and have had a bunch of A/C decks. They all held up very well and maintenance was easy. The coverage rate is definitely better than the baker's as well. I've put about 20 pails on this year and maybe 50 pails (per year) in previous years so I have a good cross section of longevity. Given a choice, I would perfer the old school stains (500+ VOC) but those days are gone.


California Paints uses a solvent in their storm-stain line that is recognized from the EPA as not contributing harmful VOCs to the atmosphere. Using that stuff is like going back to 2003 - the solids only take up a 1/4th of the can by volume. The stuff is awesome!


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## madochio (Oct 26, 2011)

gotta say after following this trend i am getting worried about the the long term health of deck coating. Yep SRD may have issues, but how much of that is based on not following the specs. in this case it was followed, but i will bet that some of the same issues with come up no matter what product is used. wood is not a perfect thing and never will be. 
NC1. i would agree that home depo will more then likely finish off the sikken name. I am not too worried about it due to the fact that we carry 7 other kinds of deck stain. (BM,ABR,Super Deck, Arborcaot, TWP, etc...) sikkens is king in the twin cities. more log and siding of the lake homes and as far as i know Mr. big box will not have that. 
i will be more interested in how they present sikkens to the clients. will they ask the right ?????, " No you do not need to clean that deck, power wash and stain in the same day, three coats will last longer" it this is what is being told then sikkens will die. in fact in a few days i plann on heading over there to see how they sell it to me. hehehehehe


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## gmhd404 (Aug 12, 2014)

*Using Mineral Spirits to stop Tackyness*



NCPaint1 said:


> Nope, shouldn't. I'm guessing the wet/sticky areas are also shiny. It may dull those areas a bit. Don't worry, the whole deck will dull eventually. You probably applied too much stain, no biggie. Now you know how to fix it, and don't do that again  Its easy to end up like you did. Especially if the deck is shaded, or surrounded by landscaping. These lower VOC products need sunlight and airflow to cure properly.


I have 3 decks, 2 of which I applied a second coat of Sikkens Cetol CRD Translucent (first coat 4 years old) and they are still tacky 6 weeks later. Uuuugggh! Yes, I have shade. So, I've been reluctant to do the 3rd deck,
but I already had spot stained some bare spots and now those are shiny and the rest of the deck is dull. So I guess I'm committed to staining the whole thing just to even things out.

A couple of questions before I proceed:

1: on Deck #3 Should I apply mineral spirits to the old surface *before *putting on the new - to break the film of the old stain for better absorption of the new? or Do I wipe the new coat, *after* it "dries" to cut the tackiness after it's on?

2: Also on Deck 3, would it help to mix the Cetol CRD with mineral spirits to make it a thinner application? If so, what proportions?

3: on Decks 1 & 2 that are still tacky, do I now wipe them with mineral spirits to cut the Tackiness? What's the best way to do that?

Any help on this will be greatly appreciated. Thanks


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

fpmr96a said:


> I'm done using their products forever!



I have never used one of its products, but based on what I have read on here, and what others have told me, I will never use it.


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## MNpainter (Jul 17, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> Wipe it with thinner, should break the film and allow it to dry.



wise old painter trick, have used it succesfully many times. steve


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## Criard (Nov 23, 2013)

3-4 days is usually not long enough wait time after a pressure washing. A normal bucket scrubbing, sure, but a pressure washed deck should be left to dry for at least a week before staining/sealing. After a few days the wood will probably look and feel dry, but the pressure washing forces water deep into the wood which takes some time to thoroughly dry.

As most of these deck stains and sealers use linseed oil as their main vehicle, any water left in the wood will repel the stain and leave it sitting on top all tacky.


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## Garytgsr (Jul 15, 2017)

After buying a company, like Sherwin Williams, PPG will cheapen the products and make it very difficult to purchase due to very low inventory. 
PPG has ruined Glidden and Sikkens among other companies they have acquired. 
Currently I hear more bad about Sikkens then I hear good. I would avoid it if it was up to me. Benjamin Moore will drop Sikkens soon since PPG owns it now and have restricted the ordering procedure on top of product changes. Arborcoat from Ben Moore is a good option!


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## Garytgsr (Jul 15, 2017)

*40 year Sales Rep.*

Avoid Sikkens products right now. Since PPG took over not only have the problems increased, it is even harder to get!
Like Sherwin Williams, PPG will ruin a product when the buy the company like they did with Glidden.


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## getrex (Feb 13, 2017)

Sikkens seemed okay the last time I used it (last year). Available at Lowes. But anyway... three year old thread.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

....


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