# concrete company tanks....



## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

I looked at some concrete companies tanks the other day to paint...

Anyone ever done something of this sort and have some helpful insight?


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Your industrious. Moving to industrial now?


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

Paradigmzz said:


> Your industrious. Moving to industrial now?


"Cover the earth" as Sherwin Williams says....lol..


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

You're going to need some more hose...

Oh, and don't forget to tie off.


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

have you ever done this type of work before???


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

Dave Mac said:


> have you ever done this type of work before???


No...but there is only one way to learn....

I know you guys frown on this and are going to give me crap...but that's basically how I've learned everything and will continue too....

All I really need is a good price and a good product which I'm sure sw can handle for me.....


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

richmondpainting said:


> No...but there is only one way to learn....
> 
> I know you guys frown on this and are going to give me crap...but that's basically how I've learned everything and will continue too....
> 
> All I really need is a good price and a good product which I'm sure sw can handle for me.....


 
hey its only painting how hard can it be.


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

Dave Mac said:


> hey its only painting how hard can it be.



you may not see it that way... but its steel...if you can spray aluinium siding why not a steel tank...just harder obstacles...bit diffirent prep and better products.....

i really dont see why so many guys are so disgruntle towards guys like me doing things like this?


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

there are times that it is simply over the head. this may be that time for you richmondpainting


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

richmondpainting said:


> you may not see it that way... but its steel...if you can spray aluinium siding why not a steel tank...just harder obstacles...bit diffirent prep and better products.....
> 
> i really dont see why so many guys are so disgruntle towards guys like me doing things like this?


Because of the access difficulty and safety requirements on a job like this. Nothing wrong with trying to expand your skill set and offering more services as long as you know what you are doing before you bid the work. 

Have you even considered how you are going to access these?


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

ewingpainting.net said:


> there are times that it is simply over the head. this may be that time for you richmondpainting



and this is when my young motivated self sees risk...reward and an opportunity......

a good price and things can be done...

obviously selling this job will be harder due to lack of knowledge but i will do the home work i can and put a number out there and see what happens....

we do alot of dangerous tough to get to kind of stuff...think this would be good for us.....

i mean im sure alot of you guys stay away from even higher residential stuff....which i cant imagine myself considering.... thats where all my money is made... we carry two 40 footers around all summer long.....its pretty much all we do....idk


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## modernfinish (Mar 20, 2013)

straight_lines said:


> Because of the access difficulty and safety requirements on a job like this. Nothing wrong with trying to expand your skill set and offering more services as long as you know what you are doing before you bid the work.
> 
> Have you even considered how you are going to access these?


Legit concerns. Looks like a 100 foot knuckle boom and assortment of spray wands would get it . Unless they spec epoxy , that would suck


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I was thinking a crane with a basket. Maybe a 100 foot boom would work. Outside of my comfort zone, but we have several very large feed mills here that I have considered approaching the owners about doing their cleaning and painting maintenance.


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

modernfinish said:


> Legit concerns. Looks like a 100 foot knuckle boom and assortment of spray wands would get it . Unless they spec epoxy , that would suck



its about 40 feet tops and i would obviously have a boom lift and more ladders for tight spots...havent looked into products yet..


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## mustangmike3789 (Jun 11, 2011)

richmondpainting said:


> No...but there is only one way to learn....
> 
> I know you guys frown on this and are going to give me crap...but that's basically how I've learned everything and will continue too....
> 
> All I really need is a good price and a good product which I'm sure sw can handle for me.....


what does the spec say? if it just says to paint the structure, you should be good. if there are other written standards such as how to address the loose paint, rust, bare metal, stripe coating or cathodic protection, you may be in over your head. im not saying that you cant do it, im just letting you know that there can be way more involved than a simple repaint. most structual steel jobs require specific paint and surface prep standards and may require that you or your company be trained or certified in these standards. you may be required to document and record all sorts of suface prep, surface contaminates, ambient conditions and paint mils. 
be careful when painting any storge tanks that may hold any kind of liquids. close monitoring of surface temps are critical in these areas. the top portion of the tank may have an acceptable temp while the bottom area at the liquid line may be at or below the dew point temp. you could also run into cold wall effect at this area too which is common for tanks or ship hulls at the water line.http://www.paintsquare.com/psf/?fuseaction=answer&psfID=60
will there be any confined space entries where you will need to monitor air quality or supply breathable air supply to your workers.
will there be any inspection hold points? these can easily add several days to a job even if you dont have any non-conformance issues.


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

mustangmike3789 said:


> what does the spec say? if it just says to paint the structure, you should be good. if there are other written standards such as how to address the loose paint, rust, bare metal, stripe coating or cathodic protection, you may be in over your head. im not saying that you cant do it, im just letting you know that there can be way more involved than a simple repaint. most structual steel jobs require specific paint and surface prep standards and may require that you or your company be trained or certified in these standards. you may be required to document and record all sorts of suface prep, surface contaminates, ambient conditions and paint mils.
> be careful when painting any storge tanks that may hold any kind of liquids. close monitoring of surface temps are critical in these areas. the top portion of the tank may have an acceptable temp while the bottom area at the liquid line may be at or below the dew point temp. you could also run into cold wall effect at this area too which is common for tanks or ship hulls at the water line.http://www.paintsquare.com/psf/?fuseaction=answer&psfID=60
> will there be any confined space entries where you will need to monitor air quality or supply breathable air supply to your workers.
> will there be any inspection hold points? these can easily add several days to a job even if you dont have any non-conformance issues.



thanks for the information...but no its just a repaint...the have no knowledge of anything...its all left up to me... Im going to talk to my sw rep and go from there...might even have him take a look at it....


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## modernfinish (Mar 20, 2013)

richmondpainting said:


> its about 40 feet tops and i would obviously have a boom lift and more ladders for tight spots...havent looked into products yet..


Then it's no problem you got this! Easy money


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## modernfinish (Mar 20, 2013)

This job will be awesome for your portfolio . I so wish I took more pictures of work I've done


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

modernfinish said:


> This job will be awesome for your portfolio . I so wish I took more pictures of work I've done


It will be a big plus...now I just have to get my hands on it at a good price


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## mustangmike3789 (Jun 11, 2011)

richmondpainting said:


> thanks for the information...but no its just a repaint...the have no knowledge of anything...its all left up to me... Im going to talk to my sw rep and go from there...might even have him take a look at it....


 taking a good rep that is trained in industrial applications is a good ideal. from what i can see in the photos, there are some rust areas that will need to be addressed. this may require a simple commercial blast cleaning or even power tool cleaning and a coat of aluminum mastic to provide cathodic protection. you may need a good paint system that is impact and abraision resistant and one that can provide protection for the steel and against the corrossive effects of concrete.
most problem areas on steel are bolts, welds, corners, crevices or any hard to reach/blind areas that cant be reached by spray application alone. these areas will usually require a _*stripe coat*_ since paint doesnt tend to build well in these areas. bolt threads are a concern since you will be dealing with sharp edges and crevices which tend to be difficult to cover without holidays and as the paint dries and shrinks the threads can cut through the paint exposing the bare metal. 
stripe coating is very important when dealing with steel. unlike interior wood or drywall where holidays can go undetected for years without any problems, any holidays on steel can cause immediate corrosion and paint failure and possible structual damage requiring expensive repairs. stripe coats allow for extra mils in the paint film in critical areas that are prone to failure. sharp corners may need to be rounded to a 1/16" or 1/8" radius to eliminate the "knife edge" that can cut through the paint as it dries. bolts and threads should be fully sealed and incased in paint to keep corrosive elements from reaching bare metal. crevices or skip welds should be brushed to eliminate bridging as the paint dries and pulls away from the surface. striping should extend at least 1" from from edges and irregular surfaces.
SSPC- PA GUIDE#11 4.2 HOW TO STRIPE COAT:
BRUSHING IS THE PREFERED METHOD OF APPLYING STRIPE COATS. UNLESS OTHERWISE SPECIFIED, SSPC- PA 1 REQUIRES BRUSH APPLICATION OF COATINGS TO CRACKS, CREVICES, BLIND AREAS OF ALL RIVETS AND BOLTS AND ALL AREAS OF LIMITED ACCESS. BRUSH APPLICATION PROVIDES THE HIGHEST QUALITY STRIPE COAT ON MOST SURFACES BECAUSE IT WORKS THE PAINT INTO PORES AND CREVICES AND ALLOWS THE GREATEST CONTROL OVER THE BOUNDRIES OF THE PAINTED AREAS. THE COATING SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO DRY TO RECOAT BEFORE A FULL PRIME COAT IS APPLIED.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

you'll be like a superstar. 

rich, I have done some large and unique projects and even I see that job as over my head. just for not haveing the right equipment alone not to even mention the safety requirements you need to know and be ready for osha to come rolling up. those fines are steep, it is where eagerness collides with reality. I know when experience is the only tool for knowledge 

good luck and I hope for your success.


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

ewingpainting.net said:


> you'll be like a superstar.
> 
> rich, I have done some large and unique projects and even I see that job as over my head. just for not haveing the right equipment alone not to even mention the safety requirements you need to know and be ready for osha to come rolling up. those fines are steep, it is where eagerness collides with reality. I know when experience is the only tool for knowledge
> 
> good luck and I hope for your success.


personally i think the challenge is perfect for us.. prep and the right product is my concern....


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## modernfinish (Mar 20, 2013)

We have been using this product and I will forever use it For all and everything metal .It comes in different labels a good sales rep will find it for you.You can lay this stuff on and it won't run and it dries right now. The biggest plus is it wont float wet in the air like regular oil base paints.There is a catalyst you can add to it to make it more glossy and harder but it doesn't require it. I got nothing but props to give to the chemist that invented this stuff . I thin it with naphtha when brushing and it lays down nicely.


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## mustangmike3789 (Jun 11, 2011)

richmondpainting said:


> personally i think the challenge is perfect for us.. prep and the right product is my concern....


Product selection should be left up to a specifier or product rep on this type of project. Selecting the incorrect coating system could result in paint failure even if the products chosen are "top quality".
Some test may need to be conducted to determine if the existing paint can accept more paint before deciding on a coating system. Another factor will be the existing surface condition such as rust or loose paint. If rusting or loose paint exceeds 25% of the surface area, it may be more cost effective to blast the entire area vs the labor cost for power tooling.
When selecting materials for over coating, DFT of the existing paint film should be taken in several areas using magnetic gauges along with random test with a Tooke gauge to evaluate the existing paint layers for defects. Several adhesion test of the existing coating should be taken using ASTM D 3359 test method A for coatings greater than 5 mils and method B for coatings less than 5 mils. The results should meet at least 3A or 3B. If the test do not reach 3 A or B, more extensive surface prep such as SSPC-SP7 may need to be factored into the bid.
Testing for soluble salts is also critical when painting steel since organic paints are permeable, meaning that they allow air and moisture to pass through them while the salts are hydroscopic and attract moisture resulting in under coat corrosion. Most specs will require that 3 salt test be taken for the first 1000 sq.ft and 1 test taken every 1000 sq.ft there after. The product manufacturer should be consulted to determine the allowable amount of salt contaminates that can be left on the surface before painting. The Bresle patch test method is relatively cheap and easy to use for reading salt levels.


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## Painter-Aaron (Jan 17, 2013)

I would assume the person hiring him would want to see everything that proves he can actually do the job. I dought a company could just walk in tell the guy he can do it with no proof or previous jobs like that and get hired just from his word.


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## mustangmike3789 (Jun 11, 2011)

Painter-Aaron said:


> I would assume the person hiring him would want to see everything that proves he can actually do the job. I dought a company could just walk in tell the guy he can do it with no proof or previous jobs like that and get hired just from his word.


 you may be right depending on what the owner wants such as protective value/life expectancy of the coating or if they just things to look asthetically pleasing. most will want a low maintenance paint system to protect the structure from corrosion to avoid costly repairs or plant shut downs.


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## modernfinish (Mar 20, 2013)

mustangmike3789 said:


> Product selection should be left up to a specifier or product rep on this type of project. Selecting the incorrect coating system could result in paint failure even if the products chosen are "top quality".
> Some test may need to be conducted to determine if the existing paint can accept more paint before deciding on a coating system. Another factor will be the existing surface condition such as rust or loose paint. If rusting or loose paint exceeds 25% of the surface area, it may be more cost effective to blast the entire area vs the labor cost for power tooling.
> When selecting materials for over coating, DFT of the existing paint film should be taken in several areas using magnetic gauges along with random test with a Tooke gauge to evaluate the existing paint layers for defects. Several adhesion test of the existing coating should be taken using ASTM D 3359 test method A for coatings greater than 5 mils and method B for coatings less than 5 mils. The results should meet at least 3A or 3B. If the test do not reach 3 A or B, more extensive surface prep such as SSPC-SP7 may need to be factored into the bid.
> Testing for soluble salts is also critical when painting steel since organic paints are permeable, meaning that they allow air and moisture to pass through them while the salts are hydroscopic and attract moisture resulting in under coat corrosion. Most specs will require that 3 salt test be taken for the first 1000 sq.ft and 1 test taken every 1000 sq.ft there after. The product manufacturer should be consulted to determine the allowable amount of salt contaminates that can be left on the surface before painting. The Bresle patch test method is relatively cheap and easy to use for reading salt levels.


Wow dude , you really love paint.


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## Induspray (Dec 10, 2009)

*Did you get the silo job?*

Just wondering if you ever got this job and how it turned out for you?


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

No....I was too busy to meet my rep out there.....and I kinda blew it off as it was a long shot...


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

Just tripped across this thread. Huh, that's too bad. Thats my favorite type of project, do em all the time. We also do 15-30kw transformers in large substations. If I put pics up here, I'm sure everyone would be tellin me I'm nuts but we have been doing em for years. Getting ready for a bunch of bulk fuel tanks right now. Brush blast works good, although we have done tons of em with just hand tool cleaning, also power tools. Tnemec coatings were the best imo, now using Devoe and they are doggone good. We have some 15+ years old that still look mint! I'm guessin they are gonna go 25 years. 3 coat system, epoxy.


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

bryceraisanen said:


> Just tripped across this thread. Huh, that's too bad. Thats my favorite type of project, do em all the time. We also do 15-30kw transformers in large substations. If I put pics up here, I'm sure everyone would be tellin me I'm nuts but we have been doing em for years. Getting ready for a bunch of bulk fuel tanks right now. Brush blast works good, although we have done tons of em with just hand tool cleaning, also power tools. Tnemec coatings were the best imo, now using Devoe and they are doggone good. We have some 15+ years old that still look mint! I'm guessin they are gonna go 25 years. 3 coat system, epoxy.


Sounds good....you should post them up!!


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## blackatom (Sep 8, 2011)

mustangmike3789 said:


> Product selection should be left up to a specifier or product rep on this type of project. Selecting the incorrect coating system could result in paint failure even if the products chosen are "top quality".
> Some test may need to be conducted to determine if the existing paint can accept more paint before deciding on a coating system. Another factor will be the existing surface condition such as rust or loose paint. If rusting or loose paint exceeds 25% of the surface area, it may be more cost effective to blast the entire area vs the labor cost for power tooling.
> When selecting materials for over coating, DFT of the existing paint film should be taken in several areas using magnetic gauges along with random test with a Tooke gauge to evaluate the existing paint layers for defects. Several adhesion test of the existing coating should be taken using ASTM D 3359 test method A for coatings greater than 5 mils and method B for coatings less than 5 mils. The results should meet at least 3A or 3B. If the test do not reach 3 A or B, more extensive surface prep such as SSPC-SP7 may need to be factored into the bid.
> Testing for soluble salts is also critical when painting steel since organic paints are permeable, meaning that they allow air and moisture to pass through them while the salts are hydroscopic and attract moisture resulting in under coat corrosion. Most specs will require that 3 salt test be taken for the first 1000 sq.ft and 1 test taken every 1000 sq.ft there after. The product manufacturer should be consulted to determine the allowable amount of salt contaminates that can be left on the surface before painting. The Bresle patch test method is relatively cheap and easy to use for reading salt levels.


lolol classic NACE blowhard
how is it way up there?


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## blackatom (Sep 8, 2011)

modernfinish said:


> Wow dude , you really love to hear yourself talk.


fixed that for ya


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## mustangmike3789 (Jun 11, 2011)

lolol classic NACE blowhard
how is it way up there?

....not too bad although it does get a little loud as I listen to myself talk and ramble on like I like to do a lot.

please feel free to add an intelligent response or your recommendations to how you would address this situation....
thanks, mike...


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

mustangmike3789 said:


> lolol classic NACE blowhard
> how is it way up there?
> 
> ....not too bad although it does get a little loud as I listen to myself talk and ramble on like I like to do a lot.
> ...


Pretty good response - though perhaps just a bit slow in coming.


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## mustangmike3789 (Jun 11, 2011)

yes, I know


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

well, i'm a lot late to this party but it sure was an interesting thread to read and I appreciate MM's input. I've got a prospective project inquiry in another thread and was grateful to read about some similarities here... keep blowin, the breeze feels great!


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

richmondpainting said:


> I looked at some concrete companies tanks the other day to paint...
> 
> Anyone ever done something of this sort and have some helpful insight?






















Did a couple last week.


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

Before pic


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

What was your process and what products?


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

lilpaintchic said:


> What was your process and what products?


Sp1 and Sp2. Hot washer with zero degree oscillating tip will do the bulk of the work for you. Devoe Products. 

Pre-Prime 167 penetrating epoxy
Bar-Rust 235 Novolac epoxy
Devthane 379 high solids urethane 

They'll get 15 years. Have results to prove it. Do your research on penetrating epoxy, it's incredible!


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