# HVLP & orange peel



## graypaint (Aug 28, 2010)

Trying out my new Graco 9.0, 4 stage HVLP on some old furniture. Using BM Satin Impervo alkyd, #4 fluid set (1.8 mm). I thinned the paint by 10% w/mineral spirits and also added 5% penetrol. Still getting an orange peel finish. Any suggestions? Thanks.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Too much paint going on, or not enough....no clue


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## Ranger72 (Jul 3, 2010)

Take a picture of it and it will help us diagnose the issue at hand.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Not thin enough. You'll soon learn you'll be thinning product more like 20-25%. SI is thick so you'll dial in around 25% or more. 

I'd also suggest its not dialed in but you said 10% reduction and I know that is not enough.

I have some info on my old site on getting a 4 stage dialed in.


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## Paintuh4Life (May 20, 2009)

graypaint said:


> Trying out my new Graco 9.0, 4 stage HVLP on some old furniture. Using BM Satin Impervo alkyd, #4 fluid set (1.8 mm). I thinned the paint by 10% w/mineral spirits and also added 5% penetrol. Still getting an orange peel finish. Any suggestions? Thanks.



I don't think 15% is enough reduction. Satin Impervo is pretty thick stuff. I'd thin it more. 20%, maybe 25%. I like to use a little Naptha with the paint thinner to help it set up. Also, I wouldn't use that much Penetrol. Lastly, dial down the amount of fluid. Too much will cause orange peeling.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

skip the hvlp and use some rustoleum aerosol on furniture.


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## graypaint (Aug 28, 2010)

*New Edge gun is different*

Graco's new Edge gun, which comes standard on their new HVLP's, has combined the fluid and air controls into one. Jury it out on whether I like that - more used to my compressor fed guns w/3 controls. Just tired of dragging along a 30 gallon compressor that has to run the whole time. Thanks for the input.

The guy that taught me to spray says to thin oil upwards of 30-40%. We'll see how that works. Not going to use Penetrol - my angle on that was to increase the open time of the paint to allow it to settle better.

What are some other thinning agents that work differently than traditional thinner?


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## graypaint (Aug 28, 2010)

TJ Paint said:


> skip the hvlp and use some rustoleum aerosol on furniture.


We've done that before too - just seems so wanna-be.


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## graypaint (Aug 28, 2010)

Paintuh4Life said:


> I don't think 15% is enough reduction. Satin Impervo is pretty thick stuff. I'd thin it more. 20%, maybe 25%. I like to use a little Naptha with the paint thinner to help it set up. Also, I wouldn't use that much Penetrol. Lastly, dial down the amount of fluid. Too much will cause orange peeling.



How much Naptha? Also, per my other post, the fluid and air are in one control on my gun.


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## MNpainter (Jul 17, 2008)

I spray Impervo A LOT w my HVLP, I use Naptha only, forget the Penatrol.
Can t tell you percentage but i would guess 10percent. Anther difference is i use a 1.2mm set. I suspect your biggest problem is your fluid set selection. Try going a little smaller. be glad to help in any way i can.

steve


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## graypaint (Aug 28, 2010)

MNpainter said:


> I spray Impervo A LOT w my HVLP, I use Naptha only, forget the Penatrol.
> Can t tell you percentage but i would guess 10percent. Anther difference is i use a 1.2mm set. I suspect your biggest problem is your fluid set selection. Try going a little smaller. be glad to help in any way i can.
> 
> steve



Do you only use Naptha, or is that in conjunction with mineral spirits?


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## Retired (Jul 27, 2010)

graypaint said:


> Do you only use Naptha, or is that in conjunction with mineral spirits?


Too many variables to quote percentages and mixtures. What may well work in New Orleans in the merry month of May and what works in Needles, California in mid August are two different things. 

VM&P naptha is miscible with paint thinner aka mineral spirits. Same stuff but the Harvard MBAs figured out that folks will pay more if the label says Mineral Spirits. Kind of like when squid was $.39/lb until somebody started calling it "Calamari" and tripled the price..

One thing that is sometimes missed is that both VM&P naptha and paint thinner added to alkyd paints make them dry faster. For a real retarder try kerosene. This can be used up to 100% of the solvent.

Acrylic polymers are a whole different can of worms with one marked exception. Water has basically the same effect as paint thinner does in an alkyd. Best IMO to buy laboratory retarders and flow releasers or be very careful when using Propylene Glycol as a retarder. Too much and you will have wet paint forever.

Some paints can even be fooled if one is in a great hurry. Alkyd primers can be supercharged to dry very quickly by reduction with standard lacquer thinner. Only use this on a substrate that can accept a hot solvent. Over old paint you are on very thin ice. A coat of shellac will sometimes act as a barrier but that ice is still thin, 

Good stuff here:

http://prorestorers.org/notes/SolventKnowledge.htm


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## Paintuh4Life (May 20, 2009)

graypaint said:


> How much Naptha? Also, per my other post, the fluid and air are in one control on my gun.



Of the 25% reduction, maybe 5% is naptha.


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## IHATE_HOMEDEPOT (May 27, 2008)

I too use Naptha, one tip is to only thin what you are going to use because it will make the paint skin up big time back in it's container. Once you have it thinned how you like it spray some on a test piece to see exactly how far you can take it exactly before it sags. Other than that one other thing you are going to need is air flow, if you are spraying in a small space it will not want to go off as fast which can be an issue.

P.S. there is a difference between what used to be the same products in gallons vs. qts. at least here in CA.


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## MNpainter (Jul 17, 2008)

graypaint said:


> Do you only use Naptha, or is that in conjunction with mineral spirits?


Yes I use Naptha alone, contrary to some, I have seen mineral spirits flatten the paint when too much is used. Also the Naptha dries faster. Works for me.

stev


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## Retired (Jul 27, 2010)

Alkyds skinning over can be cut way back by squirting some thinner on top of the paint before driveg the lid home. Cans can also be stored upside down.

Using a paint can for a cut bucket and leaving paint in the trough can interfere with the seal. It looks sealed but it isn't. 

Gallon paint cans make great cut buckets if the seals are removed with a can opener. 

Take a nail and punch some holes in the female part of the seal on the can so even when pouring or boxing the paint runs back into the can. 

If the gallon can is plastic, the seals pop off with a church key or a set of linemans pliers. 

Some of the union guys remove them with thier teeth in shops where flossing is mandatory.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

MNpainter said:


> Yes I use Naptha alone, contrary to some, I have seen mineral spirits flatten the paint when too much is used. Also the Naptha dries faster. Works for me.
> 
> stev


It will flatten the paint, but I think that is because the mineral spirits we get is not very good or not 100%.


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## graypaint (Aug 28, 2010)

*so far so good*

Per my paint shop's advice, I thinned the product 20% with paint thinner. So far so good. Laying out like glass. It'll definitely take a couple more coats than I am used to with my airless!


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

MNpainter said:


> Yes I use Naptha alone, contrary to some, I have seen mineral spirits flatten the paint when too much is used. Also the Naptha dries faster. Works for me.
> 
> stev


Naptha is the shahizzle.

Just by itself, no penatrol.

I dont do oil any more. But naptha was the way to reduce the viscosity.

Make each coat tack up quicker. It actually flows out better AND cures faster.

It's a amazing.

You can lightly sand it the next day.

It reduces the sheen just a tad which I think looks awesome, and immediately looks more like it will in a few months. Also helping to match old work better.

I was a Naptha only dude.

Now I am an acrylic only dude.

Take the plunge dude, you wont regret it.

And your synapses will thank you.

:yes:


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

Retired said:


> Gallon paint cans make great cut buckets if the seals are removed with a can opener.


A 5 in 1 will scissor them off also.


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