# Two coats in one pass?



## ralph (Jul 20, 2007)

Is it reasonable for a painter to say he is going to spray on two exterior coats by going up and down with a gun and then back and forth? Does it count as two coats if the second one goes on over a wet first one? It looks like he got a lot of paint on the wall. I can't find any thin spots. He used a hvlp system with latex.


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## DelW (Apr 18, 2007)

Generally, 2 coats means with the proper dry time between coats as per manufactures specs. I know this was discussed on CT awhile back and wet on wet is not 2 coats.:no:


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## ralph (Jul 20, 2007)

*what is ct?*

what is ct?


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

I'll tell you what CT is if you tell me if you are a paint contractor or a home owner.

And no. Wet on wet is NOT two coats. It is one thick coat. And everybody knows 2 thin ones are better than 1 thick one.


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## nextlevelpaintco. (Jun 21, 2007)

Actually you can,see a certain paint has certain amount of coat specs to reach a certain amount of millage.If you've ever worked a state job or something high priority like the inside of ships,you have a certain millage you have to meet.Unlike on say a regular industrial job the spray men are highly trained and well paid because the millage has to be dead on per coat.Not enough and your in trouble and too much and the same.So yes you can spray on the same thickness with one coat as you can rollng 2 coats.As long as you don't back roll. but I agree technically it's not really 2 coats.


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## ralph (Jul 20, 2007)

I have done a lot of painting and at one time painted commercially, but I am out of the business. I would have a hard time complaining about this job. I have had two rolled coats that did not look as thick. And I could not find any drips, sags or overspray. It looks like this kid knew how to handle a spray gun. On the other hand, I feel cheated, because everything I know says two thin coats are better than one heavy coat.


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## nextlevelpaintco. (Jun 21, 2007)

ralph said:


> I have done a lot of painting and at one time painted commercially, but I am out of the business. I would have a hard time complaining about this job. I have had two rolled coats that did not look as thick. And I could not find any drips, sags or overspray. It looks like this kid knew how to handle a spray gun. On the other hand, I feel cheated, because everything I know says two thin coats are better than one heavy coat.


Never said anything about anybody being better or not as good, it just sounded different then what I ment.I was simply trying to distinguish the difference when you have to hit the millage.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

I agree also that wet on wet is one coat.


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## Wolverine (Apr 17, 2007)

Hmmm... Who decides what one coat is? 

If it's paint I made... I do. Likewise, manufacturers (chemists) decide what one coat is when they decide how to apply the product. Right?

I don't know of one chemist that would consider this two coats. Anyone who says it is one coat doesn't know how to count or they don't understand how paint works. In addition, they don't understand how or why we (manufacturers) write instructions and decide how products should be applied. 

First, if the paint to be applied is 100% solids then it is safe to overlap wet on wet as long as the coating has the proper sag resistance. However, most of the paints you guys apply are between 25-50% solids. So, you have to think about why we say to apply the coating in X number of coats to acheive a certain mil thinkness. First, when you have solvent or water in a coat, it must come out of the film before the coating dries on the surface and traps the solvent/water into the film. If this does not happen it will be a very weak coating and it's properties will suffer such as adhesion, yellowing, hardness, pinholing/loss of gloss, and just about everything else. One good way to make sure you trap the water/solvent in the coating and do a bad job is to apply the coating so thick that the solvent can't reach the surface to escape before the surface dries and traps it in. In other words, chemists do tests to see what the maximum thickness can be (at different temperature and humidity variables) to allow an acceptable percentage of the solvent/water to escape. 

There are also good reasons to wait the suggested amount of time before recoat which we have discussed in another thread. I'm not going to rehash that her right now...

So, basically I'm saying that definitively... "That is ONE coat"! In addition, I'm saying that unless the calculations were done (based on the exact temperature, humidity, and substrate temperate at the time of application to determine if the solvent/water would have enough time to exit the film before skinning), and the paint was applied beyond the manufacturers recommendations, that the applicator is taking a huge risk. It's not that those types of paints cannot be applied beyond the recommendations, but that it can only be done in certain atmospheric conditions. 

My carpal tunnel is acting up... gonna rest it now...


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

The only time I've found that wet on wet works as two coats is with a ext wood oil stain that says for the 2nd coat, wet on wet only.


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

ralph said:


> He used a hvlp system with latex.


Not the best choice for spraying walls. I am surprised he ever got done.

Did the "kid" charge you by the hour, or was it a bid?


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Last Craftsman said:


> Not the best choice for spraying walls. I am surprised he ever got done.
> 
> Did the "kid" charge you by the hour, or was it a bid?


shh, don't let him know that hvlp is no good. He might learn how to be profitable.:jester:


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

ProWallGuy said:


> And everybody knows 2 thin ones are better than 1 thick one.


There is a well known standard joke that I could apply to this statement if this wasn't a family affair.

Is it still funny if I just allude to it?

Ba-boom-boom---PSHH!


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## TheRogueBristle (Mar 19, 2010)

ProWallGuy said:


> ... everybody knows 2 thin ones are better than 1 thick one.


...QFT


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

You guys do know that this is a three year old thread right?


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

Necro Posting is kinda CREEPY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Workaholic said:


> You guys do know that this is a three year old thread right?


yeah, I purposely tried to find a very old thread and give it some CPR. Kinda bored with the current banter.:jester:


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

TJ Paint said:


> yeah, I purposely tried to find a very old thread and give it some CPR. Kinda bored with the current banter.:jester:


There ya go.


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

Workaholic said:


> You guys do know that this is a three year old thread right?


Doh.

There is no statute of limitations on "that's what she said" jokes.

:whistling2:


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

ralph said:


> Is it reasonable for a painter to say he is going to spray on two exterior coats by going up and down with a gun and then back and forth? Does it count as two coats if the second one goes on over a wet first one? It looks like he got a lot of paint on the wall. I can't find any thin spots. He used a hvlp system with latex.


No, it's still one coat. For paint, you must wait anywhere from 2 to 4 hours minimum (depending on product) before you "recoat" it. That's two coats, waiting for it to dry, then re-applying. That's the correct way of applying paint and what the companies want you to do. STAINS, are different. Most companies want one coat for oil stains. But you also want to apply as much material as the wood will soak up. So, for stains (exterior) I always tell people if it needs a second (coat) or more material, apply the stain "wet on wet" It's essentally one coat, just like the company recommends, but you're getting enough material on, and the wood is still taking the stain. It's SO WRONG to apply oil stain wet on dry, i can't stress this enough. Once stain is dry, it create a formidable skin, and eliminates penetration. Does anybody here also run into painters and argue about the whole wet on wet vs wet on dry oil stain application?


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I do that with semi-trans oil stains, but have not heard of doing that with solid color oil stain.


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## StefanC (Apr 29, 2009)

hammerheart14 said:


> No, it's still one coat. For paint, you must wait anywhere from 2 to 4 hours minimum (depending on product) before you "recoat" it. That's two coats, waiting for it to dry, then re-applying. That's the correct way of applying paint and what the companies want you to do. STAINS, are different. Most companies want one coat for oil stains. But you also want to apply as much material as the wood will soak up. So, for stains (exterior) I always tell people if it needs a second (coat) or more material, apply the stain "wet on wet" It's essentally one coat, just like the company recommends, but you're getting enough material on, and the wood is still taking the stain. It's SO WRONG to apply oil stain wet on dry, i can't stress this enough. Once stain is dry, it create a formidable skin, and eliminates penetration. Does anybody here also run into painters and argue about the whole wet on wet vs wet on dry oil stain application?


Most oil stains I've used have a "drying window". They have to be re-coated before a certain amount of time, not necessarily when it's physically wet. Similar to some epoxies.


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## One Coat Coverage (Oct 4, 2009)

OCC baby!


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

bump!


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

StefanC said:


> Most oil stains I've used have a "drying window". They have to be re-coated before a certain amount of time, not necessarily when it's physically wet. Similar to some epoxies.


well, cabot specifically states that a second coat (if needed) must be applied within a one hour time frame or less. if you wait a few hours, it gets too gummy to back brush.


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## StefanC (Apr 29, 2009)

hammerheart14 said:


> well, cabot specifically states that a second coat (if needed) must be applied within a one hour time frame or less. if you wait a few hours, it gets too gummy to back brush.


Cabot does, others don't. I read the documentation for any new products I use and do what the chemists that developed them suggest, not what the paint store guy suggests.


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

StefanC said:


> Cabot does, others don't. I read the documentation for any new products I use and do what the chemists that developed them suggest, not what the paint store guy suggests.



GOOD!!! That's what I say too. The chemists know best, I just repeat what they tell me. Too many paint store employees think they're an expert in applying stains, and come up with their own way of applying it. I am just one of the few guys who DOES listen to the chemists. I really hate it when painters blow off what the chemists say!!!


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