# Customers and BEHR



## capitalcity painting (Apr 28, 2008)

This is the email I just got. Why do customers want to make you use something when you tell them that you don't want to and it's not any good.
They are changing colors and want one coat, no thanks.

Charlie,
All the rooms that we will have painted will be painted a tan. We were
hoping to use the Behr paint that has the primer and paint in one. We were
hoping that would save us money rather than having to pay for you all to do
two coats in each room.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

:wallbash: :thumbdown:


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

I get a couple of these every week! When I tell them it's just a marketing ploy geared toward DIYers and that it will not cover in 1, it costs more than what I'm going to use, and I will have to charge more for standing in line not only at the paint counter but also in line behind 15 others to check out! They gat a little offended.


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## capitalcity painting (Apr 28, 2008)

aaron61 said:


> I get a couple of these every week! When I tell them it's just a marketing ploy geared toward DIYers and that it will not cover in 1, it costs more than what I'm going to use, and I will have to charge more for standing in line not only at the paint counter but also in line behind 15 others to check out! They gat a little offended.



That's funny they get offended when they are trying to tell you what is the best paint to use. I get pretty offended when they tell me what to use especially when they havent bought it yet. I understand when they buy it cause they think they will do it and then decide not to and want you to use what they already paid for. But there is not even a home depot in my town anymore. They would have to drive 30 min or more to get it. Show of hands of who would drive 30 min to get BEHR paint:whistling2:


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

painting is the red haired step child of the trades, and people think they know whats up with painting, even when they don't.

Also, just look at this as an illustration of the power of marketing. Pretty powerful stuff.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Dam Plains rubbing off on some folk here :no:
.
Just tell tell them if you want to save the money you can take the dryers out of the paint. When they come too and say WTF. You can explain that's exactly what you thought when they suggested BEHR. Move on who cares.


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## Ranger72 (Jul 3, 2010)

You mean the Valspar stuff doesn't really cover that striped wall?!?!?! :jester:
Also, doesn't Behr base have the whitest white? 

...
...
...
...
Sarcasm... 

:blink:


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

capitalcity painting said:


> This is the email I just got. Why do customers want to make you use something when you tell them that you don't want to and it's not any good.
> They are changing colors and want one coat, no thanks.
> 
> Charlie,
> ...


Give it to one of your guys so they can do it on the weekend. They will be happy with the extra money and you won't have to deal with it.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

I usually tell the people that any paint will cover in one coat but if you don't like being able to see through it we better apply two or more.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Interesting. I just did a job today where using BEHR ULTRA would have covered in one coat for a simple similar color change. A blue 3 down on the deck for a tan 3 down on the deck. 

This job had Shur Scrub for the first coat. The new color also mixed in Sher Scrub did not cover the blue.

So is it smarter to a) use same product and 2 coat everything or b) spend a bit more per gallon and get the job completed in one. 

Its a ton of labor to paint a 2800+ sq ft house twice. Thats an entire extra day added to the job. Its a no brainer to pay an extra $150 for better product vs. another $300 for the 3rd coat materials and your labor costs for another day.

No where have I read that BEHR is a 1 coat solution but for a scenario like I mentioned it turns profit.

Lets just say that BEHR was an extra $300 more in materials for this job. You still save bigtime and it doesnt jack up your schedule.

Thats how I look at it.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Really the only problem I really have is I don't like ho's making me use paint that I don't know anything about.It may be ok but I just don't know with some paints until I use them enough to know.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

jack pauhl said:


> Interesting. I just did a job today where using BEHR ULTRA would have covered in one coat for a simple similar color change. A blue 3 down on the deck for a tan 3 down on the deck.
> 
> This job had Shur Scrub for the first coat. The new color also mixed in Sher Scrub did not cover the blue.
> 
> ...



Yeah but its still crappy paint any way you slice it. I sell $9 paint that has great hide, but that's about it.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

NC, hows it crappy and compared to what? What specifically does BEHR Ultra fail at?


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


> NC, hows it crappy and compared to what? What specifically does BEHR Ultra fail at?


That's just it, most painters that buy from paint stores don't really want to invest in the time it takes to go weed through the masses and buy paint that the ho's can buy at the same price. It maybe OK but does any painter want to venture down that road? I don't know any myself, and I have never seen any true painters pull out Behr paint from their trucks.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

jack pauhl said:


> NC, hows it crappy and compared to what? What specifically does BEHR Ultra fail at?


Fails:
- brushability
- rolling/lapping
- sticky
- dragging
- open time ( see above )
- adhesion
- washability
- color rub off
- burnishing


Wins
- marketing
- false testimonials/reports
- coverage on horizontal sheetrock


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## capitalcity painting (Apr 28, 2008)

Ewing- I did move on, told her I dont one coat on color changes and dont use BEHR. Just thought it was funny how they think.

Jack- Your talking about a job with Sherscrub? That is an $11/gallon paint. How much is Behr primer and paint in one? Honestly I dont know the answer how much is it. I get Super Paint or Cashmere for $24 that may be a better comparison. 

One reason why I made a thread on this is because I passed on this job and it felt great. I finally got to the point in the last year or two that I dont have to make every job work. Thanks to Paint Talk I can finally say thats not a good fit for us right now, I'll pass.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

capitalcity painting said:


> Ewing- I did move on, told her I dont one coat on color changes and dont use BEHR. Just thought it was funny how they think.
> 
> Jack- Your talking about a job with Sherscrub? That is an $11/gallon paint. How much is Behr primer and paint in one? Honestly I dont know the answer how much is it. I get Super Paint or Cashmere for $24 that may be a better comparison.
> 
> One reason why I made a thread on this is because I passed on this job and it felt great. I finally got to the point in the last year or two that I dont have to make every job work. Thanks to Paint Talk I can finally say thats not a good fit for us right now, I'll pass.


See this is good that we all can learn stuff on here. Good job man.


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## One Coat Coverage (Oct 4, 2009)

Behr has a high rating in the Consumer Reports, and that is the paint they see at Home Depot. I tell customers that I can match any Behr color with Sw paints. They are usually ok with that. Once in awhile you get a customer asking why you don't want to use Behr. Thats when I say, Behr is fine, we can use it if it makes you more comfortable. Its not worth losing a job over.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Yeah,but that really has never happen to me. Just wait it will happen next week.


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## Retired (Jul 27, 2010)

NCPaint1 said:


> Yeah but its still crappy paint any way you slice it. I sell $9 paint that has great hide, but that's about it.


Amazing that a paint salesman has all this experience with the entire Behr line making judgement calls on application and still sells crap paint to hopefully not some young contractor or painter who is trying to make an honest dollar not to mention a homeowner who might want to do a small room or some trim and gets sold crap paint. 

Now if one was really slick, cut this paint 100% with water, put it in two one gallon cans label it "Organic" and sell it for seven bucks a gallon or two for $16.00.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Retired said:


> Amazing that a paint salesman has all this experience with the entire Behr line making judgement calls on application and still sells crap paint to hopefully not some young contractor or painter who is trying to make an honest dollar not to mention a homeowner who might want to do a small room or some trim and gets sold crap paint.
> 
> Now if one was really slick, cut this paint 100% with water, put it in two one gallon cans label it "Organic" and sell it for seven bucks a gallon or two for $16.00.


Retired that is really uncalled for.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Retired said:


> Amazing that a paint salesman has all this experience with the entire Behr line making judgement calls on application and still sells crap paint to hopefully not some young contractor or painter who is trying to make an honest dollar not to mention a homeowner who might want to do a small room or some trim and gets sold crap paint.
> 
> Now if one was really slick, cut this paint 100% with water, put it in two one gallon cans label it "Organic" and sell it for seven bucks a gallon or two for $16.00.


Dude, it was a comparison stating that cheap paint can have great hide but not much else.  I stock a full line from several manufacturers, ranging from $9 to over $80/gal. Matching the right product for the right application is the key. I have products that out perform any Behr product for under $20/gal not on sale, no coupon required.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Shet man we are trying to sell and promote good paint on here, not homeowners stuff.lol


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## Ranger72 (Jul 3, 2010)

We got hooked up with a guy that was somehow affiliated with State Farm and was doing insurance work for them. He got over his head real fast and started to hire a few outside companies, especially for paint work because his original company was a general building company. We did all in all about 15 jobs for him. Unfortunately, he had a State Farm authorized Home Depot credit card. Needless to say he was using Behr. We did not know this until the day of the first job. He told us he supplied all the materials (boy he wasn't kidding, right down to plastics, and joint compound), but we made the mistake in assuming we would give him a list of what to get from the paint store. He used a combination of the Behr Premium Plus and Premium Plus Ultra. (Think that is what they are called). 
From one professional to another, the paint is utter crap. It bubbles in high humidity, has terrible no make that HORRIFIC open time, feels like it leaves a thin coating, and when dry scuffs up easily. Among many other things as well, it just felt like the cheap paint it is. 

Now we got paid by the job so we just laughed when we had a red accent wall that took 6 coats. Yes I said 6 coats. The color was some Behr color, Red Tomato I believe the name was. It just became a joke to see how many coats it was going to take. 

Sorry for the long post, just felt the need as someone who was forced to use Behr to tell you my feelings on it. Take it for what it is worth.

Thanks goodness we stopped taking jobs from that guy, we just couldn't deal with the paint anymore.


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## Wallpaper Gypsy (Feb 22, 2010)

Ranger72 said:


> We got hooked up with a guy that was somehow affiliated with State Farm and was doing insurance work for them. He got over his head real fast and started to hire a few outside companies, especially for paint work because his original company was a general building company. We did all in all about 15 jobs for him. Unfortunately, he had a State Farm authorized Home Depot credit card. Needless to say he was using Behr. We did not know this until the day of the first job. He told us he supplied all the materials (boy he wasn't kidding, right down to plastics, and joint compound), but we made the mistake in assuming we would give him a list of what to get from the paint store. He used a combination of the Behr Premium Plus and Premium Plus Ultra. (Think that is what they are called).
> From one professional to another, the paint is utter crap. It bubbles in high humidity, has terrible no make that HORRIFIC open time, feels like it leaves a thin coating, and when dry scuffs up easily. Among many other things as well, it just felt like the cheap paint it is.
> 
> Now we got paid by the job so we just laughed when we had a red accent wall that took 6 coats. Yes I said 6 coats. The color was some Behr color, Red Tomato I believe the name was. It just became a joke to see how many coats it was going to take.
> ...


 
Plus it tastes like burnt metal. Just like Sherwin Williams all surface enamel primer. Yuk!


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

I don't mind using the Behr Primium Plus if thats what they want.
I'll state my case and let them know that it will cost more time(for pick up) & money(I don't get a discount) That usually changes there mind.
But really,I don't see a problem. I actually had to use some last week because SW couldn't match the bright yellow in exterior Super Paint.


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## AztecPainting (Jan 28, 2010)

I have used Behr when I used to work for a company years ago, it wasn't that bad that I hate it, but as I kept on working I noticed that paint stores have paint that cost way less than Behr and they are as good or better.
Couple of months ago I did a job on a interior commercial offices, the owner wanted me to use Behr Premium Plus Ultra because it has primer and paint in one (Flat his choice) , I told him he had to buy it on his own and I was just gonna charge him for labour, he did. 
I was actually impressed of the coverage (Very Dark Brown on top of white primer) It almost covered perfectly on the first coat..... But.... I have no idea why it flashed and left very weird lines from the roller all over the place on the second coat (I never knew why that happened if I re-coated it 2 days after), it seems that it dries too quick and very uneven.


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

samk069 said:


> Plus it tastes like burnt metal. Just like Sherwin Williams all surface enamel primer. Yuk!


Well you're not supposed to eat it 
:jester:


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Rcon said:


> Well you're not supposed to eat it
> :jester:


Now you tell me.


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## poet-1 (Mar 27, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> Fails:
> - brushability
> - rolling/lapping
> - sticky
> ...


Having worked with Behrs interior paints several times (ultra premium, all-in-one..), those 'fails' are astonishingly accurate. Brushing Behr paint tends to make a patient painter impatient. 

HOs/DIYers have all the time in the world; they work/brush slowly using low-cost brushes --all paints are the same to them. Why pay more for waterborne while Behr is number one and better yet, paint-primer in-one?


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## Retired (Jul 27, 2010)

johnpaint said:


> Shet man we are trying to sell and promote good paint on here, not homeowners stuff.lol


God Bless those homeowners, they paid my tab for a lot of years and they are not really as ignorant as some might think especially after they get sold some crap paint once.

Nice website..I wonder what you paint sales buddy has to say about Miller Paint? Probably all crap too..LOL Rodda? absolute crap.. Purdy brushes? Hairballs..


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## Retired (Jul 27, 2010)

NCPaint1 said:


> Dude, it was a comparison stating that cheap paint can have great hide but not much else. I stock a full line from several manufacturers, ranging from $9 to over $80/gal. Matching the right product for the right application is the key. I have products that out perform any Behr product for under $20/gal not on sale, no coupon required.


From that, one might conclude that what is needed is another paint salesman to balance out the equation which at this point is one sided as opposed to the many observations by appliicators. Maybe one of your competitors from Sherwin-Williams might like to have a platform here. 

"Any Behr" product might be just a little over the top if given any thought at all. Nice pitch though. 

Dude? LOL!


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Retired said:


> From that, one might conclude that what is needed is another paint salesman to balance out the equation which at this point is one sided as opposed to the many observations by appliicators. Maybe one of your competitors from Sherwin-Williams might like to have a platform here.
> 
> *SWGuy is around here, and has some good info when he chimes in. Hammerheart knows his stuff too, came off with strong opinions at first, but has settled in now and is a good contributor. There are some other dealers that pop in now and then.*
> 
> ...


Sorry about addressing you as "dude", I was under the impression that this was a discussion forum and not a "black tie" event. I'll throw on my Tux and grab the door for you next time good sir :notworthy:


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Retired said:


> Nice website..I wonder what you paint sales buddy has to say about Miller Paint? Probably all crap too..LOL Rodda? absolute crap.. Purdy brushes? Hairballs..



Not familiar with Miller or Rhodda. I have heard of them but never used any, I think they're more regional brands. Cant say that I've heard much bad about them though. So I cant form a personal opinion on them. :thumbsup:


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## M.Pillow (Jul 7, 2010)

There has to be a devil's advocate in every thread. :yawn:

(internet forum rule #21)


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## Retired (Jul 27, 2010)

NCPaint1 said:


> Sorry about addressing you as "dude", I was under the impression that this was a discussion forum and not a "black tie" event. I'll throw on my Tux and grab the door for you next time good sir :notworthy:


Dude is fine. How may I address you? Being a nice guy who doesn't deal in absolutes I offer three choices. 
Ace
Champ
Fido (don't be offended by this one. It's latin its first person singular present tense for "I trust" .

So where are these other "dudes?" SW has so many products any sort of instant analysis would be as redundant as saying that all of any product line is "good" or all of any line is "bad". Same deal with regional paintmakers. Rodda is hooked up with several companies. They are large enough to market Zinsser shellac under the Zehrung label. Sort of like Benny Moore selling shellac calling it "Alcohol Based Sealer." Miller is Pacific NW. Good paint for the most part but they use applicators to acid test new products rather than putting crap on the shelves and dumping it on unsuspecting customers. C&C's claim to fame is one really fine (and pricey) product called Brellaplex. It was developed for Boeing and the marine environment here. 

Were you ever a painter or a paint contractor? This might be a good time to learn. Those Benny Moore mom and pop frachises are going the way of buggywhips. Lord help ya if you had to go to work in a Home Depot and sell Behr or Minwax even though unlike Sikkens they are made here in the USA. 

It's kind of too bad I hung it up. I could have put you on to a customer that is based here that uses Satin Impervo tinted by Donald Kaufmann. Original cost on the stuff was a hundred a gallon. 



So no good words or bad about Porter or Muralo? BTW Rodda and Cloverdale are linked at the corporate level and lets not forget all the stuff from Valspar Corp. They have been in the biz I think longer than even ol' Benny Moore who went to the happy hunting and fishing grounds many moons ago and before Berkshire-Hathaway stepped in.


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## Retired (Jul 27, 2010)

M.Pillow said:


> There has to be a devil's advocate in every thread. :yawn:
> 
> (internet forum rule #21)


 
"Let me introduce myself." 

:icon_evil:


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Retired said:


> Dude is fine. How may I address you? Being a nice guy who doesn't deal in absolutes I offer three choices.
> Ace
> Champ
> Fido (don't be offended by this one. It's latin its first person singular present tense for "I trust" .
> ...


hope that helps


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## Wallpaper Gypsy (Feb 22, 2010)

I agree about Benjamin Moore products being superior to Behr. I also think that Home Depot hurt Duron real bad in the south, and I miss Duron. That's why I don't like Behr.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Duron is under the ICI umbrella I believe. May have been ICI that pulled the plug on that one....again, not for sure.


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## Jay123 (Feb 1, 2008)

capitalcity painting said:


> This is the email I just got. Why do customers want to make you use something when you tell them that you don't want to and it's not any good.
> They are changing colors and want one coat, no thanks.
> 
> Charlie,
> ...


Did you tell them that the Behr product* isn't* *meant to cover in one coat*, just that the product can be used as the primer coat *and then* the topcoat?

Basically, it's an expensive primer.

If they start to stutter and flubber, ask them to please find on behr's website where it is supposed to prime and topcoat in one pass, so you can get educated. :jester:


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

NCPaint1 said:


> Duron is under the ICI umbrella I believe. May have been ICI that pulled the plug on that one....again, not for sure.


 Nope Sherwin Williams bought Duron, and they still sell their products. Not as cheap as Duron did but they are still there. I just did an exterior in Duron paint.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

....


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Retired said:


> God Bless those homeowners, they paid my tab for a lot of years and they are not really as ignorant as some might think especially after they get sold some crap paint once.
> 
> Nice website..I wonder what you paint sales buddy has to say about Miller Paint? Probably all crap too..LOL Rodda? absolute crap.. Purdy brushes? Hairballs..


_Dude...... _Just go away. Johns a good guy, trying to run off _another _member of PT?


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## One Coat Coverage (Oct 4, 2009)

It's ironic, this very same thing happened to me today. The customer had the Behr color samples all laid out, then went on to tell me how much her husband loves Behr paint. I said yeah it is really good paint, and got the job. A one day job for $800 with one helper with me for $100 and $75 in paint. 

I'm not going to say no to $625 for a days work just because I really don't like Behr.


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

One Coat Coverage said:


> It's ironic, this very same thing happened to me today. The customer had the Behr color samples all laid out, then went on to tell me how much her husband loves Behr paint. I said yeah it is really good paint, and got the job. A one day job for $800 with one helper with me for $100 and $75 in paint.
> 
> I'm not going to say no to $625 for a days work just because I really don't like Behr.


LOL!!!

You sold out to get the job. Sellout!! :jester:


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## Retired (Jul 27, 2010)

NCPaint1 said:


> hope that helps


I know the big box stores must be a thorn in your side saleswise. I hope you are not suggesting that Behr and all those cans of SW products are made "overseas." Nice try anyway.. I will concede the chip brushes but a tenner says you sell a few of those in your store too.


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## Retired (Jul 27, 2010)

Rcon said:


> LOL!!!
> 
> You sold out to get the job. Sellout!! :jester:


 
_"Dude...... _Just go away. (insert favorite name of anyone who needs protection from a meany) a good guy, trying to run off _another _member of PT?


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

Retired, I bet your just fun to be around.


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## Retired (Jul 27, 2010)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> _Dude...... _Just go away. Johns a good guy, trying to run off _another _member of PT?


I think John is a big boy and well able to take care of biz. I think you missed the satire especially about Miller Paint. John has a Miller logo on his website. The Miller store I traded with for a whole bunch of years was about a half mile from my house. Purdy brushes are now part of Sherwin-Williams. The folks at Rodda used to get first dibs on Purdy Oxhairs that were seconds. A little brushing and they were fine. 

By running someone off, do you mean the faux dude? I think he quit because the dudes that run this board wouldn't run me off and he is sulking somewhere West of Chicago and wondering why his mirrors aren't the fairest of them all. 

I am glad to think you seem to believe that paint sales dudes are always right there with the absolute truth and not maybe just trying to sell you something. Some, not all of the paints and coatings we use are great. Some not so great and some are junk. The same can be said for paint salemen. Getting back to Miller.. They had a rep I didn't want on my jobs, my shop, my office or even near my dog. Good paint though for the most part. She's gone..and probably selling used cars someplace in a universe far far away.


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## capitalcity painting (Apr 28, 2008)

One Coat Coverage said:


> It's ironic, this very same thing happened to me today. The customer had the Behr color samples all laid out, then went on to tell me how much her husband loves Behr paint. I said yeah it is really good paint, and got the job. A one day job for $800 with one helper with me for $100 and $75 in paint.
> 
> I'm not going to say no to $625 for a days work just because I really don't like Behr.


Did you change colors and get it to cover in one coat? I wont do that and I wont use Behr as its a pain and not what I am use to working with. Just like I wouldnt get an accountant and tell them they had to use H&R block software to do my taxes because its rated #1.


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## Retired (Jul 27, 2010)

BrushJockey said:


> Retired, I bet your just fun to be around.


I can tap dance while wearing a lampshade on my head if thats what you mean. I used to do a pretty good Elvis too.


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## 4ThGeneration (Apr 17, 2007)

As a professional painting contractor I am over the home owner trying to educate or train me in coating applications. I am also over them trying to sell me paint that imo is not up to par with the true paint manufacturers.

If they are that much smarter than paint contractors with many years experience, then tell them to go get their rollers and paint trays. :thumbup:


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> Fails:
> - brushability
> - rolling/lapping
> - sticky
> ...


NC, Thanks for taking the time to reply but unfortunately you listed all the great things BEHR Ultra does real well. VERY well in fact. Its an amazingly easy paint to use too. Your description is false and a very typical expected reply. 

I cant help but to read you reply and think what a joke. Its your opinion so Ill leave it in your head that BEHR is all those things to you but I know damn well that is so far from the truth.

So what paint do you recommend? I'll teach you something about BEHR ULTRA.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Didn't you like regular Behr as well (the previous CR pick)? That stuff was nothing to write home about for certain. I have only used the Ultra once when I help a friend out on their home, it was better than the previous Behr.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

DeanV said:


> Didn't you like regular Behr as well (the previous CR pick)? That stuff was nothing to write home about for certain. I have only used the Ultra once when I help a friend out on their home, it was better than the previous Behr.


No. I only use ULTRA or at least that is what I would suggest or recommend both inside and exterior version. Whos cares about the prime/paint in one, not me... thats the least of what I find ULTRA excels at.

Recently did a job where HO insisted on Duration Home matte for 4 accent walls, two reds. I know from experience that BEHR ULTRA will definitely get that job done in 2 coats but hey if the HO wants Duration Home - that is what he gets and if it takes 4 coats that is what he pays for. Its a no brainer. Do you want to pay for 4 coats or 2? 

He paid for 4 coats foolishly and wasted my time.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

jack pauhl said:


> He paid for 4 coats foolishly and wasted my time.


First time I have heard that making money is a waist of time. I guess if you have a few days left to live then I can see your point.

Pat


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

PatsPainting said:


> First time I have heard that making money is a waist of time. I guess if you have a few days left to live then I can see your point.
> 
> Pat


Accents walls only pay so much ya know... having to sit there all day and babysit 4 coats is pretty much a waste of time where you can be off by noon elsewhere making real money.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

jack pauhl said:


> Accents walls only pay so much ya know... having to sit there all day and babysit 4 coats is pretty much a waste of time where you can be off by noon elsewhere making real money.


I thought you said the guy paid for 4 coats? whats there to complain about? not our faults you don't charge enough...

Pat


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## Retired (Jul 27, 2010)

jack pauhl said:


> Accents walls only pay so much ya know... having to sit there all day and babysit 4 coats is pretty much a waste of time where you can be off by noon elsewhere making real money.


 
A perfect example of a guy who really needs to figure out that "all" Behr is crap and that Benny Moore Aura red will cover in one coat. This according to a paint salesman. Eeek!


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Retired said:


> A perfect example of a guy who really needs to figure out that "all" Behr is crap and that Benny Moore Aura red will cover in one coat. This according to a paint salesman. Eeek!


yeah sure... ask the guys here doing 4 coats with Aura. No thanks. I could pull all those up in a single post if you like.


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

Retired said:


> From that, one might conclude that what is needed is another paint salesman to balance out the equation which at this point is one sided as opposed to the many observations by appliicators. Maybe one of your competitors from Sherwin-Williams might like to have a platform here.
> 
> "Any Behr" product might be just a little over the top if given any thought at all. Nice pitch though.
> 
> Dude? LOL!


As a paint salesman for over 14 years and on and off paint helper for my father with 40 years experience, I have to say from his and my experience with Behr paint, it's absolute crap. This paint and primer is absolute bull**** and peeled off the can very easily, like rubber. I have also used it several times and everything the guys are saying is true. They just have good marketing and most people are stupid and fall for it. You know, when american idol is the most watched series in america, it doesn't take much thought that these are the same people buying behr paint. plus home depot employees have no paint knowledge, on the job experience, technical skills, and they wouldn't know how to eye match if their lives depended on it!!!!

stop defending behr paints, nobody is buying the bs.


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

jack pauhl said:


> NC, Thanks for taking the time to reply but unfortunately you listed all the great things BEHR Ultra does real well. VERY well in fact. Its an amazingly easy paint to use too. Your description is false and a very typical expected reply.
> 
> I cant help but to read you reply and think what a joke. Its your opinion so Ill leave it in your head that BEHR is all those things to you but I know damn well that is so far from the truth.
> 
> So what paint do you recommend? I'll teach you something about BEHR ULTRA.


BS!!! Behr paint is junk, and the above are all true. Yeah, go ahead and believe the hype, after all, the commercials says it good paint!!!

for all you guys who bitch about four coats on accents, have any of you heard about interior primers that have ultra deep bases? get a primer tinted a red color, use it as a first coat, then put your finish on. two coats your done, and even buying a primer, you still saved money!!!


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## Retired (Jul 27, 2010)

Problem solved. Thanks. I always wonder why I didn't think of things like that.


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## M.Pillow (Jul 7, 2010)




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## Retired (Jul 27, 2010)

hammerheart14 said:


> As a paint salesman for over 14 years and on and off paint helper for his father with 40 years experience, I have to say also that Behr paint is crap. This paint and primer is absolute bull**** and peeled off the can very easily, like rubber. I have also used it several times and everything the guys are saying is true. They just have good marketing and most people are stupid and fall for it. You know, when american idol is the most watched series in america, it doesn't take much thought that these are the same people buying behr paint. plus home depot employees have no paint knowledge, on the job experience, technical skills, and they wouldn't know how to eye match if their lives depended on it!!!!
> 
> stop defending behr paints, nobody is buying the bs.


With what looks like 54 years experience unless you started at 2 or 3 it might be time to hang it up. 

Just for grins if you had all that knowledge and experience it should be somewhat clear that at least some of the HD stores might have a painter or two who maybe got hurt on the job, working in the paint department and that just because one Behr product ain't all that good, certainly all Behr products can't be crap. 

So what are you selling without buying an ad? I am thinking about moving a few of my bobblehead collection here. Would that be OK?


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## Retired (Jul 27, 2010)

jack pauhl said:


> yeah sure... ask the guys here doing 4 coats with Aura. No thanks. I could pull all those up in a single post if you like.


Only four? I thought the red took more.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

This thread has been entertaining for me, thanks.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Retired said:


> So what are you selling without buying an ad? I am thinking about moving a few of my bobblehead collection here. Would that be OK?


Please, everyone knows real painters focus all their advertising on Craigslist.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Retired said:


> it should be somewhat clear that at least some of the HD stores might have a painter or two who maybe got hurt on the job, working in the paint department


In my local paint store there is a guy that use to manage a paint store we bought from. He got fired and went to HD because none of the other paint vendors would hire him. Last time I saw him he was trying to get free shirts from Glidden as customers were waiting to get serviced.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

M.Pillow said:


>


:lol:


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## M.Pillow (Jul 7, 2010)

Retired said:


> With what looks like 54 years experience unless you started at 2 or 3 it might be time to hang it up.
> 
> Just for grins if you had all that knowledge and experience it should be somewhat clear that at least some of the HD stores might have a painter or two who maybe got hurt on the job, working in the paint department and that just because one Behr product ain't all that good, certainly all Behr products can't be crap.
> 
> So what are you selling without buying an ad? I am thinking about moving a few of my bobblehead collection here. Would that be OK?


I think what he means to say is his DAD has 40 years exp. 

So out to get people, geesh


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## M.Pillow (Jul 7, 2010)

Oh before I go and sneered at, he *is* speaking of his father's exp:

http://www.painttalk.com/f3/hello-9208/


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## dvp (Jun 21, 2010)

i was painting a house and came in mon morning with costomer wanting a different color on one bedroom. they decided to 'help" me out and got a gallon of behr ultra and told me it should save me time and them money because it covers in one coat. i tested it and it failed miserably, not only did i send them for another gallon because it didnt cover, but it looked horrible when compared to the rest of the house.(painted dunn-edwards)
behr premium plus i will use if i have to, but dunn edwards only costs 85.00a 5 and behr is 26.00 a gal. And dunn looks nicer, lasts longer, paints faster, spreads farther and touches up- and they deliver-free.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

dvp said:


> i was painting a house and came in mon morning with costomer wanting a different color on one bedroom. they decided to 'help" me out and got a gallon of behr ultra and told me it should save me time and them money because it covers in one coat. i tested it and it failed miserably, not only did i send them for another gallon because it didnt cover, but it looked horrible when compared to the rest of the house.(painted dunn-edwards)
> behr premium plus i will use if i have to, but dunn edwards only costs 85.00a 5 and behr is 26.00 a gal. And dunn looks nicer, lasts longer, paints faster, spreads farther and touches up- and they deliver-free.


yeah but behr p plus has primer and paint in one!!


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## dvp (Jun 21, 2010)

sorry i forgot to mention self priming over new drywall


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## Retired (Jul 27, 2010)

dvp said:


> i was painting a house and came in mon morning with costomer wanting a different color on one bedroom. they decided to 'help" me out and got a gallon of behr ultra and told me it should save me time and them money because it covers in one coat. i tested it and it failed miserably, not only did i send them for another gallon because it didnt cover, but it looked horrible when compared to the rest of the house.(painted dunn-edwards)
> behr premium plus i will use if i have to, but dunn edwards only costs 85.00a 5 and behr is 26.00 a gal. And dunn looks nicer, lasts longer, paints faster, spreads farther and touches up- and they deliver-free.


Theres a guy here that has some paint that does all that for 45 bucks for a five.


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## Retired (Jul 27, 2010)

M.Pillow said:


> Oh before I go and sneered at, he *is* speaking of his father's exp:
> 
> http://www.painttalk.com/f3/hello-9208/


All I can figure out from that is he sure did serve a long apprenticeship. Sort of reminds me of Moses in the desert.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Me thinks Retired needs a job............


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## One Coat Coverage (Oct 4, 2009)

capitalcity painting said:


> Did you change colors and get it to cover in one coat? I wont do that and I wont use Behr as its a pain and not what I am use to working with. Just like I wouldnt get an accountant and tell them they had to use H&R block software to do my taxes because its rated #1.


I don't need it to cover in one coat. I'll roll out two coats and still be done in one day.


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

ewingpainting.net said:


> In my local paint store there is a guy that use to manage a paint store we bought from. He got fired and went to HD because none of the other paint vendors would hire him. Last time I saw him he was trying to get free shirts from Glidden as customers were waiting to get serviced.


you mean he was on the phone with glidden, while customers were waiting to be helped? hahahahahahahahaa!! that's classic man. i'd be pissed if i was a customer. "do that on your free time, a-hole!"


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## Retired (Jul 27, 2010)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Me thinks Retired needs a job............


Noooo! Had one of those for years. Almost as long as Moses in the desert.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

hammerheart14 said:


> BS!!! Behr paint is junk, and the above are all true. Yeah, go ahead and believe the hype, after all, the commercials says it good paint!!!
> 
> for all you guys who bitch about four coats on accents, have any of you heard about interior primers that have ultra deep bases? get a primer tinted a red color, use it as a first coat, then put your finish on. two coats your done, and even buying a primer, you still saved money!!!


Whoa lets bring you up to speed on BEHR Ultra. I've done a nice review on it and gave it a full 10 out of 10 being the only single paint I've rated that high, some close. BEHR ULTRA has worked getting the job done in 2 coats where other paints take 4-5 coats. I've done the tests side by side over and over. Ive put chocolate brown over white semi-gloss in 2 coats on a bath flawlessly.

The whole "idea" here is to skip that "accent primer coat" to get you where you need to be faster which IMO hardly works effectively. See hammerheart, you have your system down to a science to "make" your highly recommended all hyped up product work which is costing "you" more to do than "me" using BEHR Ultra. You are talking about that system saves you money??? Wow, go read my review on the money you "could" be saving. 

I am one very difficult person to please when in comes to paint, "extremely difficult". It has to do all things well before I would even consider it on a customers walls. First and foremost I refuse to use any product that is difficult to spread either with a brush or a roller or anything tacky, heavy, slow etc. 

I care less about washability in paint unless its in very specific applications but as far as flat paint goes, they all burnish when you touch them, or wipe them. Sure you can scrub the hell out of some paints more than others but what good is that if you remove one mark and leave another. Pointless and useless and I would never sell any customer that it could be done.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I need good application and good washability, and not just in some situations. I try to provide a bit more for the client than what every product I can apply the fastest and is the most forgiving to work with.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

I "hear" what you guys are saying because I "hear" that all the time in my area either standing at the counter in the paint store or working side-by-side with guys doing the color accent tones to get their favorite highly talked about paint to work for them. I've been there, its unpredictable isnt it? You open up that gallon of grey primer and take the time to apply it, let it dry etc, apply your first coat of red and it needs another, and another and wait, now the touchup looks bolder red than the body so a third coat (4 total). Its a guessing game on coverage. This painting business isnt anything new to me, been there done that.

Im not kidding when I say I deal with other painters all the time talking the same as some of you guys on here and its not until you physically show them that they "get it" and sometimes even that 25-30 years in business - old school fart doesn't want to believe it after he sees it. True story.

Im working with an old school painter right now and I'll be the first to tell you how stubborn in his ways he his. Im old school but I take every advantage of technology and incorporate that into my systems. This guy I'm working with now couldnt possibly do anything "a longer way", we are talking back in the day methodology and that is raping his bottom line.

He's the kind of guy that when I say I painted that new house start to finish, including touchups after carpet in 21 "manhours", he says show me.

Grey or tinted primer and multiple coats of paint is an old system of mine.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

DeanV said:


> I need good application and good washability, and not just in some situations. I try to provide a bit more for the client than what every product I can apply the fastest and is the most forgiving to work with.


I ask my customers, all of them... when they say... "we want something washable". I reply, " how often do you wash your walls now"? The answer, 1) we dont b) never. I make it a point to ask that question. 

I recall my ICI Dulux eggshell painted kitchen in my old house where I went around with a sharpie marker and marked up the walls and wiped them off. I think I paid around $11 per gallon. Red oak penetrating stain, wiped it right off. 

What do you sell your customer who wants a washable flat paint? How do you determine its "washable"? What test do you stand by on the product you apply?


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Most customers do not routinely wash entire walls anymore as part of spring cleaning, but they do want to be able to wash dirt, grime, food from kids hands, the occasional crayon or marker that ends up on the wall. A lot of kids have a habit of walking along walls the entire length and dragging their hand the entire way along the wall. Cheap flats do not hold up to the least of these since dirt seems to leap onto those surfaces with little encouragement. A high quality flat does resist dirt pick-up more, but still does not wash well without burnishing. Step up to matte or eggshell, and if you have good resin you will have better success. A cheap eggshell will still not wash well. Before I will use a prouduct on a jobsite, it has to pass some coverage and wash tests on drywall in the shop. It has to show good coverage and also show some stain resistance and ability to be washed with limited burnishing. A lot of the cheaper paints do not pass the highlighter test, so I highly doubt they would survive the permanent marker.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Been several years since I used any BEHR. For what it's worth, I have never bought BEHR paint myself but have had customers who had already purchased their own paint before they called me. I have seen exteriors I painted, still looking really good 8 or 10 yrs later.


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## Retired (Jul 27, 2010)

*"Sharpie* is a brand of disposable marking pens and tools manufactured by Sanford and sold in Australia, Canada, Latin America, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, the United States and parts of Europe (but not in the Netherlands). Originally a name designating a single permanent marker, the Sharpie brand has been widely *Sharpie* is a brand of disposable marking pens and tools manufactured by Sanford and sold in Australia, Canada, Latin America, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, the United States and parts of Europe (but not in the Netherlands). Originally a name designating a single permanent marker, the Sharpie brand has been widely expanded to take advantage of the familiar name and logo, and can now be found on a variety of previously unrelated permanent and non-permanent pens and markers formerly marketed under other Sanford and Papermate brandsexpanded to take advantage of the familiar name and logo, and can now be found on a variety of previously unrelated permanent and non-permanent pens and markers formerly marketed under other Sanford and Papermate brands."

There are commercial job sites where the Sharpie permanent markers are not allowed. 

What I want to know is where the heck I can buy some of that paint? I can get Sharpies at the local office supply store for about a half a buck each.


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## Ranger72 (Jul 3, 2010)

Go back and re-read post #24. It is my personal review of Behr Premium Plus Ultra and why I was forced to use this garbage. If the product worked I would give it a good review, but it is garbage paint with excellent marketing in my opinion. 6 coats of red, that is correct, I said 6 coats to only achieve 95% coverage. I would have used a deep base primer, but the GC of the job wouldn't allow it. (long story) Since we were getting paid by the number of days, we just laughed. I believe the Behr color name was Red tomato. 

Stick with quality paints: ie Benjamin Moore (all I use), and though I don't use it, Sherwin Williams too does make quality products.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Ranger72 said:


> Go back and re-read post #24. It is my personal review of Behr Premium Plus Ultra and why I was forced to use this garbage. If the product worked I would give it a good review, but it is garbage paint with excellent marketing in my opinion. 6 coats of red, that is correct, I said 6 coats to only achieve 95% coverage. I would have used a deep base primer, but the GC of the job wouldn't allow it. (long story) Since we were getting paid by the number of days, we just laughed. I believe the Behr color name was Red tomato.
> 
> Stick with quality paints: ie Benjamin Moore (all I use), and though I don't use it, Sherwin Williams too does make quality products.


I missed #24 just read it. You dont recall if the tomato red was in ultra or premium? See for me when I read a post like that, Im speechless that I can damn near 1 coat that red seen on my review (even similar reds) where a 2nd coat just makes it more solid. I'm seriously tempted to go grab a gallon of tomato red and paint over some previously painted walls.

If I can achieve solid coverage in 2 coats would it still suck? Not making any promises.


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

jack pauhl said:


> I missed #24 just read it. You dont recall if the tomato red was in ultra or premium? See for me when I read a post like that, Im speechless that I can damn near 1 coat that red seen on my review (even similar reds) where a 2nd coat just makes it more solid. I'm seriously tempted to go grab a gallon of tomato red and paint over some previously painted walls.
> 
> If I can achieve solid coverage in 2 coats would it still suck? Not making any promises.


As I recall, behr ultra does have one redeeming quality: it has great hide. If that was all I wanted in a paint I might use it. As for their other lines, well, there's a reason they get a bad rap from painters. 

That's all i'm going to say about that.


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## Ranger72 (Jul 3, 2010)

It was the ultra. We were covering a green IIRC. The actual paint was super thin, watery, and separated like there was too much tint in it. (All gallons had the same consistency). While doing the insurance work for that guy, we did use the Ultra on other jobs too and yes it did cover very well, however the performance of the paint was poor in MY opinion. I don't like it therefore don't use it. I am happy that you found a paint that works well for you, it is just not for me. Keep the sprayers spraying, the rollers spinning, and the brushes swinging.


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## Wallpaper Gypsy (Feb 22, 2010)

Rcon said:


> Well you're not supposed to eat it
> :jester:





johnpaint said:


> Now you tell me.


 Duron used to have a wallcovering primer that tasted like an orange creme milkshake. mmm. Vinyl Plastic though- that tasted really bad, great flat paint though but over all Pratt and Lambert makes good tasting paint! :blink:


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## One Coat Coverage (Oct 4, 2009)

Some guys just don't like to be proven wrong.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> I missed #24 just read it. You dont recall if the tomato red was in ultra or premium? See for me when I read a post like that, Im speechless that I can damn near 1 coat that red seen on my review (even similar reds) where a 2nd coat just makes it more solid. I'm seriously tempted to go grab a gallon of tomato red and paint over some previously painted walls.
> 
> If I can achieve solid coverage in 2 coats would it still suck? Not making any promises.


 

YES:yes::thumbsup:


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