# Ethanol Plant



## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

Anyone done one new construction care to share any insights? Bidding one, looks to be 3-4M for painting. Maybe 200M overall. What to expect?

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## kentdalimp (Aug 15, 2013)

Nothing out of the ordinary. Biggest thing will be to go through the Spec with a Fine tooth comb and look for any issues. 

Big Commercial/Industrial Jobs you will Live or Die by the Specification. Not knowing what your experience is (Maybe you do big jobs all the time?) You need to get very familiar with all the ins and outs. Are you familiar with the materials to be used? Will there be inspectors? Will there be testing?

I'll give what advice I can, How familiar are you with large scale jobs like this?


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

kentdalimp said:


> Nothing out of the ordinary. Biggest thing will be to go through the Spec with a Fine tooth comb and look for any issues.
> 
> Big Commercial/Industrial Jobs you will Live or Die by the Specification. Not knowing what your experience is (Maybe you do big jobs all the time?) You need to get very familiar with all the ins and outs. Are you familiar with the materials to be used? Will there be inspectors? Will there be testing?
> 
> I'll give what advice I can, How familiar are you with large scale jobs like this?


Very familiar with this scale of job. Just found out no inspectors and no third party engineering. If it looks good, it passes. 1 year warranty.

We're very experienced with high performance coatings including PC coatings such as polyurea. Piping looks to be a couple coats of DTM and not sure on tanks yet. Probably the same judging by what I've seen doing maintenance work. I could try sell them on epoxy/urethane but doubtful. Painting is such a small part of the overall picture, it's hard to convince them it's worth the good stuff.

I have done a ton of maintenance work in these plants. Now I know why the original paint job sucks so bad. Sounds like spray and pray from.

Have you had any luck prefinishing the pipe and then just touch up the joints once installed? Or do they scar it up so bad it needs a full coat anyway? 

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## painter213 (Nov 5, 2008)

Stretch67 said:


> Anyone done one new construction care to share any insights? Bidding one, looks to be 3-4M for painting. Maybe 200M overall. What to expect?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk




Specs, hold points, QC, tight numbers, etc. do you have a specification yet? What kind of painting is it? 


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

You will be do a whole lot more painting than just striping if you are using just DTM. Yall responsible for blasting? Id assume you would be responsible so you can control getting zinc coats on- on your time table.


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## kentdalimp (Aug 15, 2013)

Does the Pipe come Shop Primed? Hop on the GC right now to be the guy to spec the materials for priming (Always bothers me that the Steel guys can control the materials when they have like <5% of the total painting package to do) 

Typically we would want to do the first coat in the shop and the final finish coat after install. We have space to do the work in house though. That way it reduces Field extras for finished work being damaged during install. (Not always possible though) 

Key words: "Delivery of piping to [our facility] and subsequent pickup and delivery to [jobsite] to be performed by others." 

What is specified? Amerlock 2? **(Just re-read your Prievious reply and realize this is a dumb question! - Also I cant spell previous!!)*


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

Paradigmzz said:


> You will be do a whole lot more painting than just striping if you are using just DTM. Yall responsible for blasting? Id assume you would be responsible so you can control getting zinc coats on- on your time table.


Yeah we do the blasting. We have the stuff.

But for some reason I don't even think they use zinc. Just getting takeoffs etc put together... takes time.

What do you mean DTM takes more painting? I talked to some of the field guys and a couple supts to get a feel for the "field conditions". They said on the piping u just pull out the roller and go. Maybe wire brush here and there but not much. At joints mostly. 

I believe em too. I've done maintenance work on plants 10 years old and 90% of the paint is already fell off. I don't really care if they want quality or speed I can do either. They're looking more for speed (price).

The tanks are blast and paint. No cleanup to speak of.

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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

painter213 said:


> Specs, hold points, QC, tight numbers, etc. do you have a specification yet? What kind of painting is it?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I understand those ideas and processes. But they're more common in public work such as water towers, dams etc.

This is private work. 

As in Mr. Koch calls my GC and says "I need a new plant asap get it done!" 

GC calls us and says "We got half the concrete in the ground lmk what it's gonna take to paint the place, all the mild steel."

Then comes over a bazillion drawings to figure out the price. Drawings in which paint is basically the last thing on anyone's mind.

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## kentdalimp (Aug 15, 2013)

Stretch67 said:


> They said on the piping u just pull out the roller and go. Maybe wire brush here and there but not much. At joints mostly.


How many coats per spec? Is there a Stripe Coat Requirement?

Depends on the conditions, but 2/3 of the time we would probably brush and roll something like this if it's field applied. Easiest way to get the mil thickness.


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## painter213 (Nov 5, 2008)

I see it almost every day I public work. More and more is specifying jobs and requiring QC hold points. Not just for government work anymore. Even if it doesn't ask for it, I'd still document QC testing for accountability. That should be common practice. What polyurea products do you apply and how long have you been applying them? 


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Are you on a preferred contractor listing with the owner? It seems a lot of industrial coating companies need SSPC QP1 and 2 to qualify and compete as a competent bidder. Particularly when it involves a utility or power company.

And as a company that applies 100% SBV Plural component coatings, like polyurea, can you share any problems you've experienced?

Thanks.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

You know, now that you mention it......I actually OWN an ethanol plant! So to speak.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> You know, now that you mention it......I actually OWN an ethanol plant! So to speak.


More like an H2S plant. Pew!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> More like an H2S plant. Pew!


I was talking about the still.......


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

CApainter said:


> Are you on a preferred contractor listing with the owner? It seems a lot of industrial coating companies need SSPC QP1 and 2 to qualify and compete as a competent bidder. Particularly when it involves a utility or power company.
> 
> And as a company that applies 100% SBV Plural component coatings, like polyurea, can you share any problems you've experienced?
> 
> Thanks.


Working a bigger wastewater job now and reminded me of this thread.

Has anyone else gotten into the polyurea game yet? If you haven't your missing the boat by golly!

Anyways, we deal with all the normal stuff as far as PC pumps go. Keep your filters clean is the main thing. Maintain your equipment; which is a lot more work than your average "paint" tools.

We haven't really had any problems or product failures so to speak. Just equipment stuff, relatively minor.

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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

kentdalimp said:


> Does the Pipe come Shop Primed? Hop on the GC right now to be the guy to spec the materials for priming (Always bothers me that the Steel guys can control the materials when they have like <5% of the total painting package to do)
> 
> Typically we would want to do the first coat in the shop and the final finish coat after install. We have space to do the work in house though. That way it reduces Field extras for finished work being damaged during install. (Not always possible though)
> 
> ...


I would think that the delivery and pickup of piping paid for by (others) might be a dealbreaker. Who would eat this cost?

Another thing is how will the pipefitting contractor feel about having to thread painted pipe?


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## kentdalimp (Aug 15, 2013)

Brushman4 said:


> I would think that the delivery and pickup of piping paid for by (others) might be a dealbreaker. Who would eat this cost?
> 
> Another thing is how will the pipefitting contractor feel about having to thread painted pipe?


We do a lot of shop & field work. We also are friendly with the guys that do WAY more than us. The shop / field delivery by others clause is pretty standard. That cost is already going somewhere. Typically the steel guys will have their supplier deliver to us instead of the jobsite, Then they can swap out finished for unfinished and deliver primed items to the jobsite. Not usually a huge cost. 

As for threading Painted Pipe, You would do a holdback around the threads if that's the case.


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## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

kentdalimp said:


> As for threading Painted Pipe, You would do a holdback around the threads if that's the case.



On smaller pipe (6" and under) the full sticks are typically threaded in the field after being cut to length of talking about threaded black/galv steel and aluminum/stainless pipe. 

Do you guys prepaint fittings? 

What's the advantage if they throw their pipe wrenches on when tightening and going down to bare material?

Curious never did this kind of work.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

sayn3ver said:


> On smaller pipe (6" and under) the full sticks are typically threaded in the field after being cut to length of talking about threaded black/galv steel and aluminum/stainless pipe.
> 
> Do you guys prepaint fittings?
> 
> ...


Typically, on Victaulic fittings and other metal objects, we will coat everything except where we're instructed not to. As far as pre painted steel pipe that will need to be cut, threaded or welded later, paint remover and wire wheels are often used by the fitters.

In corrosive environments, we will be instructed to follow up the install by coating nuts, bolts, and any breaches to the coating that were created during handling and installation.


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