# biggest project ever....



## richmondpainting

Just looking for some ideas and thought on this one....its pretty huge...the owner has. No actual "scope" hasn't even chosen a color or expectation for preparation. ...and yes I already brought Sherwin Williams out to look at it.....


----------



## DeanV

Electrostatic? Just a guess. Not sure if it needs to be bare metal to make that work. Industrial is out of my comfort zone.


----------



## Schmidt & Co.

What is it, shelving?


----------



## richmondpainting

Schmidt & Co. said:


> What is it, shelving?


ware house racks for pallets at a food distributor....

sorry the pictures are up side down... i was glad just to get the pictures posted.. usually doesnt work... other wise i would probably post every day like i do on face book


----------



## Schmidt & Co.

richmondpainting said:


> ware house racks for pallets at a food distributor....
> 
> sorry the pictures are up side down... i was glad just to get the pictures posted.. usually doesnt work... other wise i would probably post every day like i do on face book


I'm intrigued. What kind of prep do you think it will need? At the very least I think a good wash of all contaminants. And as Dean suggested, electro might just be the way to go. Especially considering if its an occupied facility and your concerned about overspray. Otherwise I'd put an airless on it and figure at least 50% transfer efficiency.


----------



## richmondpainting

Schmidt & Co. said:


> I'm intrigued. What kind of prep do you think it will need? At the very least I think a good wash of all contaminants. And as Dean suggested, electro might just be the way to go. Especially considering if its an occupied facility and your concerned about overspray. Otherwise I'd put an airless on it and figure at least 50% transfer efficiency.


Were looking at a good wipe down and some kind of industrial enamel...brush and roll....I'd like to spray and still may but its sound like a lot more prep then I'd like....not to mention some racks have this roller system that we can't get paint on ..


----------



## Rbriggs82

richmondpainting said:


> Were looking at a good wipe down and some kind of industrial enamel...brush and roll....I'd like to spray and still may but its sound like a lot more prep then I'd like....not to mention some racks have this roller system that we can't get paint on ..


Looks like a pretty interesting job Richmond. That ain't gonna be fun to brush and roll but a ridiculous amount of spray prep ain't fun either. 

What did the SW rep suggest to use?


----------



## Workaholic

richmondpainting said:


> Were looking at a good wipe down and some kind of industrial enamel...brush and roll....I'd like to spray and still may but its sound like a lot more prep then I'd like....not to mention some racks have this roller system that we can't get paint on ..


Yikes. I would take the time for prep but to each their own. Let us know if you get it.


----------



## richmondpainting

Rbriggs82 said:


> Looks like a pretty interesting job Richmond. That ain't gonna be fun to brush and roll but a ridiculous amount of spray prep ain't fun either.
> 
> What did the SW rep suggest to use?


Still waiting on his quote and recomendation...he did say if done right. It could reach a million lol....they want a price for three coats.....and they already spent three million on new racks and 60 million on this new building


----------



## vermontpainter

I think I'd sooner chew my leg off than be tied to that one.


----------



## straight_lines

vermontpainter said:


> I think I'd sooner chew my leg off than be tied to that one.




I got 99 problems but those racks ain't one. :jester:


----------



## richmondpainting

vermontpainter said:


> I think I'd sooner chew my leg off than be tied to that one.


The chances are slim....but my number will be solid.....and it will be like winning the lottery if I do get it.....lol


----------



## vermontpainter

straight_lines said:


> I got 99 problems but those racks ain't one. :jester:


Jenkies! Like, lets get outta here, Scoob!


----------



## Rbriggs82

richmondpainting said:


> Still waiting on his quote and recomendation...he did say if done right. It could reach a million lol....they want a price for three coats.....and they already spent three million on new racks and 60 million on this new building


Wow, how many racks are there? Must be a butt load.


----------



## Oden

Easey estimating job 
How long to prep and paint one square. how much material one square. multiply. Easey.
Richmond, you done way bigger jobs than that one. I seen them on ur web sight.


----------



## richmondpainting

Rbriggs82 said:


> Wow, how many racks are there? Must be a butt load.


Haven't added them up yet....a lot tho..


----------



## richmondpainting

there are 481 normal bays some are 4 tier and some 7 tier 

then you have 944 bays that are a bit harder due to the fact they have a roller system in each bay and you cant get paint on it...plus there harder to get at......

297 upright that are on the ground

2800 beams on the ground

between removing and replacing a cross bar to get the lift in...wiping them down...and painting....i figure 13-16 hours per bay......

Did it at $60.00 hour and it came at $1,347,060

im thinking im going to have to cut that in almost half to be even remotely close to getting this thing......

havent even thought about the paint or lift cost.........oh and covering the ground......

any thoughts on such a project this size?


----------



## Andyman

Prep prime paint.... Ya ya ya. The real question is how long do you have to complete the project? How many hands will you need? That will determine your starting point.


----------



## richmondpainting

Andyman said:


> Prep prime paint.... Ya ya ya. The real question is how long do you have to complete the project? How many hands will you need? That will determine your starting point.


opening is in october but the rack company says with the schedule they are on....more like March...

im thinking 5 guys 2 or 3 shifts a day ......


----------



## Hines Painting

Even if you had 9 guys, 8 hours each, you are looking at 312 days. 

Factor in 5 day work weeks and your looking at 62 weeks to get that done based on your initial numbers you posted.


----------



## RH

So you're saying that even before considering paint, lifts, and protecting the ground, your calculations come in at a million three but you figure you'll need to come in at 650K to have a chance? 

Ouch...


----------



## chrisn

richmondpainting said:


> there are 481 normal bays some are 4 tier and some 7 tier
> 
> then you have 944 bays that are a bit harder due to the fact they have a roller system in each bay and you cant get paint on it...plus there harder to get at......
> 
> 297 upright that are on the ground
> 
> 2800 beams on the ground
> 
> between removing and replacing a cross bar to get the lift in...wiping them down...and painting....i figure 13-16 hours per bay......
> 
> Did it at $60.00 hour and it came at $1,347,060
> 
> im thinking im going to have to cut that in almost half to be even remotely close to getting this thing......
> 
> havent even thought about the paint or lift cost.........oh and covering the ground......
> 
> any thoughts on such a project this size?[/QUOTE]
> 
> 
> ahh yep run away, fast


----------



## Bender

The Sagittarius in me would crack after about 17 hours on that thing.

You better have a long talk with your help before you commit. Let em know they will be in one color, day after day, same routine for months.
Make the donuts...


----------



## Paradigmzz

richmondpainting said:


> Still waiting on his quote and recomendation...he did say if done right. It could reach a million lol....they want a price for three coats.....and they already spent three million on new racks and 60 million on this new building


Your rep does your take offs? That's nuts. 


Seriously. Painting by hand sounds like some of the dumbest time wasting chit I have ever heard of on round bar. My suggestion to the owner? Leave them safety yellow. Its called safety yellow for a reason.


----------



## richmondpainting

Paradigmzz said:


> Your rep does your take offs? That's nuts.
> 
> Seriously. Painting by hand sounds like some of the dumbest time wasting chit I have ever heard of on round bar. My suggestion to the owner? Leave them safety yellow. Its called safety yellow for a reason.


No...he's. Quoting products....

They may want them...yellow...green or orange....


----------



## richmondpainting

Obviously something like this would be stressful and full of issues...

But this is the kind of thing that will set you up for life....new truck ...house....pay for the kids education and put you on top of the industry as a leader in your area....

Its hard for me to see why so many wouldn't want a project of this size....

Setting 10 guys up for the next however many months.....sounds awesome to me...


----------



## Painter-Aaron

richmondpainting said:


> Obviously something like this would be stressful and full of issues...
> 
> But this is the kind of thing that will set you up for life....new truck ...house....pay for the kids education and put you on top of the industry as a leader in your area....
> 
> Its hard for me to see why so many wouldn't want a project of this size....
> 
> Setting 10 guys up for the next however many months.....sounds awesome to me...


Not for half price it won't.


----------



## kmp

Can you carry the pay roll and materials for a job like that? What kind of draw schedule would you be able to set up with the owner? That is going to require some cash flow.


----------



## CApainter

richmondpainting said:


> there are 481 normal bays some are 4 tier and some 7 tier
> 
> then you have 944 bays that are a bit harder due to the fact they have a roller system in each bay and you cant get paint on it...plus there harder to get at......
> 
> 297 upright that are on the ground
> 
> 2800 beams on the ground
> 
> between removing and replacing a cross bar to get the lift in...wiping them down...and painting....i figure 13-16 hours per bay......
> 
> Did it at $60.00 hour and it came at $1,347,060
> 
> im thinking im going to have to cut that in almost half to be even remotely close to getting this thing......
> 
> havent even thought about the paint or lift cost.........oh and covering the ground......
> 
> any thoughts on such a project this size?


Is there any possiblity that you can offer the customer a portion of the total job in order to get an idea of what it will really take to complete the entire project? That way you can experiment with brush and rolling verses spraying.

It's not like every painter out there faces these types of challenges every day. Particularly when the storage system was originally painted in a production plant no doubt.


----------



## embellishedpainting

I wouldn't agree to carry payroll to the end...bill every thirty days.


----------



## richmondpainting

There isn't a company around. Who can float this pay roll.....of course there will be draws...

I did just hear from one of the union companies....its suppose to go union...lol...but the union thinks everything is there's....he said there more intrested in the building him self


----------



## y.painting

I bet these guys could do it in less than a year


----------



## RH

Richmond - 

I really am not not trying to poop in your Cheerios when I say this - I have seen enough of your posts to understand that nothing anyone here says will deter you from doing something, but seriously, you have to have considered the worst case "what if" scenario on this.

I'm sure you've had to have experienced the frustration of grossly underbidding a job - one where at the end you were actually in the hole after materials, sundries, and paying your guys. The saving grace may have been that at least it was over and done with relatively fast and you could look back on it as painful learning experience. But in a situation like this one, a similar bidding error could literally put you out of business - or worse.

I'm not saying don't go after it. Just know that your price will really allow you to make money. You say you don't understand why others in your area aren't going after this project. Perhaps, just perhaps, their business sense is telling them something that you haven't figured out yet. Regardless, good luck with your process. Whatever happens, I hope the outcome is a good one for you.


----------



## 6126

richmondpainting said:


> there are 481 normal bays some are 4 tier and some 7 tier
> 
> then you have 944 bays that are a bit harder due to the fact they have a roller system in each bay and you cant get paint on it...plus there harder to get at......
> 
> 297 upright that are on the ground
> 
> 2800 beams on the ground
> 
> between removing and replacing a cross bar to get the lift in...wiping them down...and painting....i figure 13-16 hours per bay......
> 
> Did it at $60.00 hour and it came at $1,347,060
> 
> im thinking im going to have to cut that in almost half to be even remotely close to getting this thing......
> 
> havent even thought about the paint or lift cost.........oh and covering the ground......
> 
> any thoughts on such a project this size?


Thoughts? I would pass. Nothing worse than losing your a$$ on a big job. Sure, it could be the one that sets you up on top. Or......the one that ends you. There are guys who specialize in projects like that. They could bid and do that job in their sleep. No offense, but from what I'm reading here you don't really know how to do either.


----------



## Hines Painting

I think the safest way to do it, would be to throw out a bid of like 3 million, since that is double what you think you can do it for. Then, put a stipulation that "If we can't beat any written proposal by $50,000 we will buy you dinner at the nicest steakhouse in town."

At least then maybe you will have the option to be the lowest bid, although it probably won't go that far.

Realistically, if they want it done by the end of october, you need a crew of 232 guys based on your labor guesstimates. Or a crew of 82 guys to get it done by march. 

Do you have access to that kind of help? Because I know I don't.


----------



## Dave Mac

is this even a real post


----------



## RH

y.painting said:


> I bet these guys could do it in less than a year


Yeah - they probably even know the best products to use, what kinds of lifts will be needed, and the best way to cover the ground.


----------



## fauxlynn

richmondpainting said:


> Obviously something like this would be stressful and full of issues...
> _*
> But this is the kind of thing that will set you up for life....new truck ...house....pay for the kids education and put you on top of the industry as a leader in your area....*_
> 
> Its hard for me to see why so many wouldn't want a project of this size....
> 
> Setting 10 guys up for the next however many months.....sounds awesome to me...


Yeah, I had an opportunity like that last spring. It was going to be a six figure contract for me.The designer and I got strung along for 5 months,and guess what? Nothin' happened. I would double your estimate, and start hiring.


----------



## RH

This job would be like diving head first into a tar pit because you think there's treasure down there. Even if there is you can't get out with it.


----------



## richmondpainting

I guess we all have our reasons why we do this...its just hard for me to comprehend. ..

I do this for two reasons money and legacy...or money power and respect is an easier way to say it...

I probably have no chance at getting this job...but I would never turn something down......


----------



## Hines Painting

richmondpainting said:


> I guess we all have our reasons why we do this...its just hard for me to comprehend. ..
> 
> I do this for two reasons money and legacy...or money power and respect is an easier way to say it...
> 
> I probably have no chance at getting this job...but I would never turn something down......


I understand that, and I feel the same way.

But wanting to do something and having the resources to do something are 2 entirely different things.


----------



## RH

richmondpainting said:


> I guess we all have our reasons why we do this...its just hard for me to comprehend. ..
> 
> I do this for two reasons money and legacy...or money power and respect is an easier way to say it...
> 
> I probably have no chance at getting this job...but I would never turn something down......


What do you mean by hard to comprehend - why you feel the way you do or why people here question you about jumping into a project like this?

I can totally get the money and legacy thing. Even the money and respect. Not so sure about the "power" part though. Personally I never looked at being the owner of a painting business as being a position of power.

I do respect your ambition, can-do attitude, and your unfailing optimism. Those are great attributes to have as long as they are channeled properly. On the other hand some of the stuff you post drives me crazy. I think you are about the age of my son and like with him, I sometimes find myself wishing I could knock you up along side the head (in a fatherly kinda' way) and yell, "What the hell are you thinking?" :yes:


----------



## richmondpainting

I just see a lot of guys here settling....I cant imagine being an hourly employee or owner and turning work down or just being happy with what I have... I've always strived for the biggest and best and I won't stop....if I wanted to stay at the same level I would have stayed with the union company I was at....a lot of these guys say there happy with where there at and I've realized that will never happenn with me and I've accepted it....

Basically I can't comprehend settling period.....

My company tag line is

" Something Bigger"


----------



## driftweed

I'll cheer you on! My life motto is: think big.

C.y.a in the details and trust your numbers. If they seem high, stick with them. Don't ever second guess your numbets and discount.

Grab that bull by the horns. 5 yrs from now you'll look back at this epic job and smile.


----------



## Bender

From the soup line


----------



## Oden

richmondpainting said:


> There isn't a company around. Who can float this pay roll.....of course there will be draws...
> 
> I did just hear from one of the union companies....its suppose to go union...lol...but the union thinks everything is there's....he said there more intrested in the building him self


Uhm. My outfit could float that payroll at union rate and wait on the Ching for years.
If my outfit were working in the building and Richmond is working in the building on something that interests them Richmond is in the process of losing everything he has and ever will have . LOL I promise you that. One would be better off and have more likelihood of success training to box and taking on the heavyweight champ of the world. they will set you up and take you out.


----------



## Dave Mac

your killing me this is great stuff


----------



## richmondpainting

Oden said:


> Uhm. My outfit could float that payroll at union rate and wait on the Ching for years.
> If my outfit were working in the building and Richmond is working in the building on something that interests them Richmond is in the process of losing everything he has and ever will have . LOL I promise you that. One would be better off and have more likelihood of success training to box and taking on the heavyweight champ of the world. they will set you up and take you out.


Ok...buddy...


----------



## David's Painting

You will burn out crew after crew then yourself on that jungle Jim. I wouldn't paint that for months on end.


----------



## chrisn

richmondpainting said:


> I guess we all have our reasons why we do this...its just hard for me to comprehend. ..
> 
> I do this for two reasons money and legacy...or money power and respect is an easier way to say it...
> 
> I probably have no chance at getting this job...but I would never turn something down......[/QUOTE]
> 
> 
> One of these fine days, you will learn a valuable lesson, young man:yes:


----------



## RCP

Richmond, just out of curiosity, where did the lead for that job come from?


----------



## richmondpainting

RCP said:


> Richmond, just out of curiosity, where did the lead for that job come from?


Phone book....then the rack company verified with sherwin williams.....


----------



## fauxlynn

What is this "phone book" you speak of?


----------



## Oden




----------



## TJ Paint

Bigger ain't always better.


----------



## Schmidt & Co.

TJ Paint said:


> Bigger ain't always better.


***bites tongue*** :whistling2::jester:


----------



## 6126

Nice website Richmond :thumbsup:


----------



## RH

richmondpainting said:


> I just see a lot of guys here settling....I cant imagine being an hourly employee or owner and turning work down or just being happy with what I have... I've always strived for the biggest and best and I won't stop....if I wanted to stay at the same level I would have stayed with the union company I was at....a lot of these guys say there happy with where there at and I've realized that will never happenn with me and I've accepted it....
> Basically I can't comprehend settling period.....
> My company tag line is
> " Something Bigger"


I don't think of it as "settling". I think it's more about what an individual's priorities are. There are likely just as many definitions of success on this forum as there are members. 

For you, at least for now, it's all about the money, growth, accomplishments, and making a name for yourself. For someone else it may be about having a successful business that supports them well while also allowing them time to spend with their families and pursuing other interests. Neither is wrong or right - just different perceptions of what success is, based on differing points of view.


----------



## benthepainter

richmondpainting said:


> Just looking for some ideas and thought on this one....its pretty huge...the owner has. No actual "scope" hasn't even chosen a color or expectation for preparation. ...and yes I already brought Sherwin Williams out to look at it.....


G'day RP

I don't mean to be rude but your asking for some thoughts but don't even take the time to turn the pics around thats not a good Sign in regards to such a huge job as I would think its the little things such as that and attention too detail 

That will also make or break taking such a huge job 


Maybe its because I'm over in Australia the pics look that way like the reverse toilet flushing thing : )


----------



## Bender

Man, if that doesn't scream workmans comp:blink:
Rich, don't put any of your illegals on that one.


----------



## Oden

that's a easey job to get set up and running on the 'tools' end of it, really. No big deal at all. big work is all about management. The office wins or loses that gig. it's about 99 percent on the office to make that work.


----------



## RH

Oden said:


> that's a easey job to get set up and running on the 'tools' end of it, really. No big deal at all. big work is all about management. The office wins or loses that gig. it's about 99 percent on the office to make that work.


uh-oh... :whistling2:


----------



## MonPeintre.ca

I would hire monkeys or midget to do that kind of job!


----------



## chrisn

MonPeintre.ca said:


> I would hire monkeys or midget to do that kind of job!


 
Just because you are from Canada does not mean you can disrespect midgets and or monkeys:blink:


----------



## playedout6

Good luck...just do not price it low .:no: I would only take a job like this if I knew I was going to make money and a lot of it and that my crew could actually handle it . I would not bet my hand on new hires being able to do the same amount of work as your own crew . Be careful what you get into...again...BID HIGH and allow for a lot of time to get it done and read the fine print in the finish schedule VERY Carefully .:thumbsup:


----------



## CApainter

I still think you can approach this job with caution. In other words, secure a color and a coating system with the customer. Then, submit a fixed estimate or T&M not to exceed, on one section of racks. Complete that section and proceed with the other sections if everything works out. What's the problem?

Even a painting contractor with experience in this type of work, will have a significant bid that will no doubt punch the customer in the gut. But, if presented in easy to swallow increments, the over all project might be a little easier to digest.


----------



## Scannell Painting

Whewww, when I first saw the pics I thought electrostatic, but I don't know now.
A world of cleaning.
Special paints for food storage?
Good luck looks like a job I would be tempted on to bid but I would be too chicken or too smart.


----------



## TJ Paint

Before walking, locate all landmines first.


----------



## richmondpainting

here are the product Sherwin Williams quoted for the job: ranging from $40.00/ gallon to $112.00/ gallon

Crazy if you ask me....considering my price is over a million w/out any paint..lol..... does seem a little absurd to even bid on....idk

Interior Finishes
Steel Racking Best Option
Primer: B65S00014 - Corothane® I - Aliphatic Finish Coat MIO/Aluminum
2 Coats: B65Y00030 - Corothane® I-Aliphatic Moisture Cure Urethane Safety Yellow Safety Yellow


Steel Racking Good Option
Primer: B50WZ0001 - Kem Kromik® Universal Metal Primer Off White Off White
2 Coats: B54Y00157 - Industrial Urethane Alkyd Enamel Safety Yellow
END OF SECTION


----------



## DeanV

The last thing I would have talked me out of bidding the job is the cost of the materials.


----------



## driftweed

You can do it!


----------



## David's Painting

How many cases of blue tape?


----------



## richmondpainting

I was thinking one coat of a dtm with an option for a second for when there not happy and it doesnt cover......


----------



## Repaint Florida

richmondpainting said:


> I was thinking one coat of a dtm with an option for a second for when there not happy and it doesnt cover......


coverage in only a small part of the project, it can look beautiful but if it won't bond 

btw, the cost is what it is, just because you think it high don't mean you have to cut the price

bid it to make money or walk :yes:


----------



## Schmidt & Co.

Repaint Florida said:


> bid it to make money or walk :yes:


For the love of God, _please_ bid it to make money. :yes:


----------



## MKap

Over a million without any paint?? Forget about material costs...if you bid it wrong you won't be able to afford to post on here anymore and would be "detriotpainting".
I haven't used or even heard of half those products so take your time in figuring out application/production rates and scope of work before submitting your future/bid.


----------



## TJ Paint

Well at least you know whatever number you come up with the right price should be a lot less than that.


----------



## Bender

Watch, you'll get under bid by like $40.00:jester:


----------



## David's Painting

Did you bid on this bad boy?


----------



## richmondpainting

David's Painting said:


> Did you bid on this bad boy?


No....I was at 1.3 for one coat....how do you charge for a second coat on something like that? Lol


----------



## TJ Paint

richmondpainting said:


> No....I was at 1.3 for one coat....how do you charge for a second coat on something like that? Lol


Add another mil.


----------



## David's Painting

Sometimes the best jobs are the ones you don't get. That could of bogged you down for awhile.


----------



## richmondpainting

TJ Paint said:


> Add another mil.


that was with no paint..plastic...sundries or lifts...just labor


----------



## TJ Paint

richmondpainting said:


> that was with no paint..plastic...sundries or lifts...just labor


Too bad you didn't bid it. You coulda lost a couple hundred k.


----------



## 6126

TJ Paint said:


> Too bad you didn't bid it. You coulda lost a couple hundred k.


I worked for a commercial painter in Portland for a few years. We did a lot of hotels, hospitals, schools, tennant improvement jobs, and tilt-ups. Then he took on a new parking garage. Very big job, but totally out of his league. We were there for 18 months. Rumor was, he lost 250 grand on that job. He never really did recover from that one.


----------



## TrueColors

Id walk away. I think seeing all those digits is seducing you. It will be a head ache and mega stress.


----------



## marksimon112

richmondpainting said:


> Just looking for some ideas and thought on this one....its pretty huge...the owner has. No actual "scope" hasn't even chosen a color or expectation for preparation. ...and yes I already brought Sherwin Williams out to look at it.....


Looks like warehouse racks right? might be floor the way!


----------

