# Are there any old school guys out there..



## Shaggy Dog (May 7, 2008)

When i started my apprentiship in 1992 for my fathers co he had some great old school painters that worked for him...and i thank god everyday that i had the chance to work with these men..talking to some of these new guys at the paint store they don't even know how to brush or roll oil base on trim,hm door frames,or god forbid drywall ceilings or walls..


My question to you guys is..Has painting become a mask it off and spray EVERYTHING deal...i see guys spraying things that i could just take a brush cut it in and roll faster that masking and spray..What has happened to the true mechanic????


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## paint_booger (Jul 1, 2007)

Mechanichs are rare! I'm Old world ... pre lead based fears ... when we didn't wear masks cause it made you look like a puss. The new guys can't do it. They are "Efficiency Taught". The budgets have shrank ... and specialists have grown. "The caulk and putty guy", "the prime Guy", the Touch-up guy ... that's me now.

It's sad!


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## Bushdude (Apr 17, 2007)

Shaggy Dog said:


> When i started my apprentiship in 1992 for my fathers co he had some great old school painters that worked for him...and i thank god everyday that i had the chance to work with these men..talking to some of these new guys at the paint store they don't even know how to brush or roll oil base on trim,hm door frames,or god forbid drywall ceilings or walls..
> 
> 
> My question to you guys is..Has painting become a mask it off and spray EVERYTHING deal...i see guys spraying things that i could just take a brush cut it in and roll faster that masking and spray..What has happened to the true mechanic????


These new guys would wipe their buts with airless toilet paper if you gave them a chance!!!!!!!!!!


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## Shaggy Dog (May 7, 2008)

Hey booger..how long you been painting???the one thing that is neat about me is i'm only 32..so i incorporate ALOT of the old school stuff with a modern spin..i came up working in churches,hospitols,lots of retail work,wallcovering which i hate to hang(mostly 54 in),polymix,multi-spec,dry fall..etc,etc


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## Bushdude (Apr 17, 2007)

Shaggy Dog said:


> Hey booger..how long you been painting???the one thing that is neat about me is i'm only 32..so i incorporate ALOT of the old school stuff with a modern spin..i came up working in churches,hospitols,lots of retail work,wallcovering which i hate to hang(mostly 54 in),polymix,multi-spec,dry fall..etc,etc


Were you on any of the sitcom's in the 60's?


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## paint_booger (Jul 1, 2007)

My babysitter was the maintenance man ... so 35 years ... professionaly ... only 25 years. But like you, I was the kid taught by the old man. I can paint a wall with a 12 inch brush if I have to ... LOL


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## Shaggy Dog (May 7, 2008)

Bushdude said:


> Were you on any of the sitcom's in the 60's?


 
No..were u???


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## Bushdude (Apr 17, 2007)

paint_booger said:


> My babysitter was the maintenance man ... so 35 years ... professionaly ... only 25 years. But like you, I was the kid taught by the old man. I can paint a wall with a 12 inch brush if I have to ... LOL


I once knew someone who painted a wall with a toothbrush, he wanted to fill in all the cavities...


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## Shaggy Dog (May 7, 2008)

paint_booger said:


> My babysitter was the maintenance man ... so 35 years ... professionaly ... only 25 years. But like you, I was the kid taught by the old man. I can paint a wall with a 12 inch brush if I have to ... LOL


 


The old half moons...


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## paint_booger (Jul 1, 2007)

Yup. Teach the young what you know ... take one under your wing ... and teach him to teach also! That's the only way the old world can survive longevity!


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## Bushdude (Apr 17, 2007)

Shaggy Dog said:


> No..were u???


No , but I was born the 50's!!!!


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## Shaggy Dog (May 7, 2008)

what about union painters???i have 13 years in but since i took over the biz i can't continue to pay in..but the way things are going here the union painters are all steel painters no more decorators so to speak...


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## Bushdude (Apr 17, 2007)

Shaggy Dog said:


> what about union painters???i have 13 years in but since i took over the biz i can't continue to pay in..but the way things are going here the union painters are all steel painters no more decorators so to speak...


Got 30 plus with DC14, local 194...


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## Shaggy Dog (May 7, 2008)

Bushdude said:


> Got 30 plus with DC14, local 194...


 
DC6 Local 603


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## paint_booger (Jul 1, 2007)

I do "CLINICS" ... teaching the how and why. I never tell them they need to go faster ... I tell them they need to think better. I teach the old stuff ... and they find solutions to their problems easier. 

In stead of the one dimentional painter produced by shrinking budgets ... I'm creating problem solvers. It's for the better good of the industry ... they won't be with me for ever ... but I'll be with them forever ... They will talk about me as they teach the next ones ... just as I talk about the ones who taught me. 

If that makes sense.


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## Z paint (Jan 16, 2008)

bragging about not wearing a mask is dumb machismo talk...lead poisons ur body and has bad effects on the brain..why brag about not taking care of the most important organ humans have..not trying to be rude but it gets on my nerves when people dont take care themselves


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## Shaggy Dog (May 7, 2008)

Alot of the old guys i worked with didn't wear masks either..thats just how it was i guess..i remember painting block walls with 2 part epoxy i was the ground man and the guy spraying had a cigar in his mouth and the guy rolling had a pipe..crazy stuff i know and these men are both still alive in their late 70's..i am in no way condoning this act..but it's the truth


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

Z paint said:


> bragging about not wearing a mask is dumb machismo talk...lead poisons ur body and has bad effects on the brain..why brag about not taking care of the most important organ humans have..not trying to be rude but it gets on my nerves when people dont take care themselves


He wasn't bragging about not wearing a mask, he was expressing a time and era when folks didn't find it all that important or didn't care or know any better. If you don't like what ya read, find something else to read. :whistling2:

J


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Shaggy Dog said:


> the guy spraying had a cigar in his mouth ..crazy stuff i know and these men are both still alive in their late 70's..i am in no way condoning this act..but it's the truth


You have described my father. (but he was never a union painter) 

I thought EVERYBODY brushed, rolled, cut in and sprayed. That is what we were raised believing a true painter was. Did not know there was an "Old School", you either are a painter or you are not.


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## Shaggy Dog (May 7, 2008)

There are guys out there today that don't know how to brush and roll...spray...spray...spray...


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## paint_booger (Jul 1, 2007)

It's all about production!


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I must say, nothing makes me feel more like a craftsman than when I am brushing out interior trim. I like spraying new construction trimwork, so far I stubbornly refuse to spray an exterior (do not know if I will be able to fight that one forever though).


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## Joewho (Apr 17, 2007)

I'm an old school guy too.

Learned everything the hard way, but I learned.

I've nothing against sprayers, just hate using them. Worked for a company a couple years ago and chose touch up rather than the better paying sprayer position. To this day, I still believe that an exterior skillfully painted with a brush is better than a spray job. Even if you backroll, nothing beats the way a brush pushes the paint into all the orfices. It's hard to find people that will pay for the real deal though. 

I also spent a lot of years with no mask. Nothing against them either. Just can't stand to have that thing on my face. But, with yrs. of paint fumes and double smokers cough, I have to use it now...........if I can find it.


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## Slingah (Sep 24, 2007)

I am old school I guess...been painting since 1983....from extreme high end residental to get it done commercial...


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## paint_booger (Jul 1, 2007)

Hey Joe ...

What in the heck is "double smoker's cough"?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Old school? NEPS disparages me for brushing everything. :wheelchair:


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

I started on the biz when I was 13 for my brother in law. I did nothing but putty holes, sand, maybe some masking if they would let me then at 4:30 they would give me 10 gls. of keroseen and I cleaned all the old boys brushes while they watched and drank beer. If I did a good job they would let me have a couple. By the time I was 17 I was there boss. It was the best training I could ever get. Watch and learn, ask questions, carry the big ladders, volunteer for everything especialy the high crazy stuff no fall protection, alot of dryfall and double shifts. Thoe were the days!!!...... I Think????:blink:


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

paint_booger said:


> It's all about production!


If you work for me, your pay is based on a combination of production and quality. I don't care how FAST you can apply paint, if I gotta go back and fix it.

 That said, as a business owner production does play a large part of turning a profit. As said earlier, I've seen some jobs sprayed that could have been done faster just by picking up a brush. 

 The best painters know which method works best in a given situation.


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## paint_booger (Jul 1, 2007)

Sounds wildly familiar. Lots of money ... little cash ... right? Now the money's better ... but the headaches are getting bigger ... been there. 

There comes a time when you have nothing left to prove ... and ya just plain have fun!


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

paint_booger said:


> Sounds wildly familiar. Lots of money ... little cash ... right? Now the money's better ... but the headaches are getting bigger ... been there.
> 
> There comes a time when you have nothing left to prove ... and ya just plain have fun!


Actually we are a small business, make a decent living, and have lots of fun. Ya gotta have a thick skin to work for our family, we like to break balls. 

Headaches are no worse than working for others. I grew up around this business, I knew what I was in for when taking over and it's a life I chose. As far as proving anything, the only people I have to "Prove Anything" to are my customers and my employees. I lead from the front and my employees deliver a good days work. I'd say thats pretty good. (not perfect) and most every one is happy.


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## paint_booger (Jul 1, 2007)

Sounds like an awesome start, and some great work ethic.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> Old school? NEPS disparages me for brushing everything. :wheelchair:


VP, you have a nice market up there and I hope you stay busy with it for years to come. My business is a little different. 

I just criticize those who bash spraying as a whole. Any hack can grab a brush, roller or a sprayer and ruin a job. It takes just as much training to learn how to spray the correct way as it does to brush and roll. In fact there is more prep work involed with interior spraying. Of course you must have a solid foundation and learn how to paint the old fashon way... with a brush and roller. I spray for production and quality and as always, it depends on the circumstance. 

I find that the companies that usually give "the art of spraying" a bad name are usually those who are cutting corners, hiring illegals, using low grade products, carry no insurance and have no professional training at all. They will always be out there under cutting our prices. The industry has changed and learing the correct procedures for spraying to increase production is something most legitimate companies will need to incorporate in order to grow and stay competitive.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

NEPS

I suck as a sprayer. You would fire me on the first day. Well, you would probably keep me, but you wouldnt let me spray much, thats for sure.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> NEPS
> 
> I suck as a sprayer. You would fire me on the first day. Well, you would probably keep me, but you wouldnt let me spray much, thats for sure.


I hate to say it, but I do 90% of my spraying. I can't handle spending hours upon hours of prep time and having someone screw it up in 2 seconds with a sprayer. Depending on the job (of course), but most of our millwork looks like pieces of funiture. I am training someone now but I usually let the reigns go for priming, ceilings and any back roll work...pretty hard to screw those up...mill work is mine. One of the many reasons why it tough to grow a successful business that focuses on quality....there are no good resources out there for training ...even when I find a decent union guy he is usually burnt out.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

If "Old school" was determined to be of value in todays economy, we'd be fighting wars with muskets!


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## slickshift (Apr 8, 2007)

Shaggy Dog said:


> My question to you guys is..Has painting become a mask it off and spray EVERYTHING deal...


No
I do mostly res repaints (occupied)
I don't own a sprayer, but have rented one when needed (rarely)

Lol...I once laid down 30,000 sq. ft. of paint (commercial new const.) with an 18 incher because I didn't want to rent a sprayer...too cheap...ha ha ha....

But there's still a client that wants to have it brush and rolled
I'll do it


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

CApainter said:


> If "Old school" was determined to be of value in todays economy, we'd be fighting wars with muskets!


If old school wasnt determined to be of value in todays economy, my crew would be working about 2 days a month.


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## Shaggy Dog (May 7, 2008)

When i say "old school" i meant .That their are guys out there today that can't brush or roll cuz they only were taught to spray..i can spray lots of things but i was taught to be a complete painter before i picked up a spray gun..


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Shaggy Dog said:


> When i say "old school" i meant .That their are guys out there today that can't brush or roll cuz they only were taught to spray..i can spray lots of things but i was taught to be a complete painter before i picked up a spray gun..


I agree. There should be a progression from each phase ....you have to learn how to crawl before you can get up and walk ...have to learn how to walk before you can run.....


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## Shaggy Dog (May 7, 2008)

When i got out of highschool 1994.The union painters were on strike.So my dad knew a guy from the paint store that did house's.I went to work for him to spend my days and some nights completely masking a hole f****N house so he could spray it out.Or watch him paint a 6 panel door from the bottom up.Or have two guys cutting out of a FULL quart can.This man later went in to commercial work and let's just say that he is no longer around..A spray man with a bunch of laborers masking and cleaning is not considered painting in my book..


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## GMack (Jan 18, 2008)

My question to you guys is..Has painting become a mask it off and spray EVERYTHING deal...i see guys spraying things that i could just take a brush cut it in and roll faster that masking and spray..What has happened to the true mechanic????[/quote]


The true mechanic, as already stated in this thread, knows how to brush, roll, and spray proficiently. He can also easily determine which method is best suited for any given application . . . Keep in mind that our grandfathers were saying the same thing you are now saying about sprayers . . . about rollers. 

"Oh those fancy smancy new-fangled roller things! A true craftsmen brushes everything.!"

While I agree that there is something disconcerting about most blow and go new construction work I think the issue is rooted more in the general low quality of all the work than simply the fact that the painter sprays alot.


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

Gmack good post.


I doubt a guy that doesnt know how to brush could survive in the res re paint buisness, but I know a guy who doesnt spray could survive in the repaint buisness, but not the new const buisness.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Shaggy Dog said:


> A spray man with a bunch of laborers masking and cleaning is not considered painting in my book..


 
Are you the same Shaggy asking how to spray a door frame??


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## Shaggy Dog (May 7, 2008)

NEPS.US said:


> Are you the same Shaggy asking how to spray a door frame??


 

Yes thats me....we haven't had a job in recent memory that has had a ton of h.m. door frames...but i have one coming up...so i thought i would ask for some recommendations besides the old conventional 2 gal pot...


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## greensboro84 (Feb 15, 2008)

I've noticed a lot of older painters around here only use a 3in brush, no matter what they are painting and it looks great


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## Shaggy Dog (May 7, 2008)

bikerboy said:


> .
> 
> The best painters know which method works best in a given situation.


 




That there sums it all up fellas...great quote....


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## Shaggy Dog (May 7, 2008)

Top...whats up old schoolers...


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Shaggy Dog said:


> Top...whats up old schoolers...


What do you mean when you say "Top"?


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## Shaggy Dog (May 7, 2008)

To bring this thread back to the TOP...to revive an old topic..ya know "to the Top"


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

Shaggy Dog said:


> To bring this thread back to the TOP...to revive an old topic..ya know "to the Top"


I don't knowwwww...... The old schoolers might call that a "bump". 

J


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

"Old Schoolers" probably won't use a computer.


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## paint_booger (Jul 1, 2007)

Hmmm ... how would they reply to this post then? :blink: :icon_rolleyes: :confused1:


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

They would not read it. But then oh Guru, it depends what your definition of "Old Schooler" is. Mine would be some one older than I. (I am no spring chicken) Others it may be one whom is older then they. (those who do not remember a world without...say...computers)


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## paint_booger (Jul 1, 2007)

Pre fax,cable,cell,computer ... In my day ... we ate lead paint! It put hair on your chest! Sure your hair would fall out everywhere else, you'de walk funny after a few years, and die at 45 ... but that's the way it was ... and we liked it that way.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Competent maskers and good spray men can can perform quantity with quality provided they are experienced and cohesive as a team.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PB,

That videos hilarious!


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## greensboro84 (Feb 15, 2008)

If you wanna see old school, google "higgins house painter". I would love to get a reproduction of this book. The actual book, (i dont think many were made, like a dozen or so) has real samples of the finish each chapter talks about. Have any of you ever heard of this book?


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## MRoss (May 16, 2008)

"If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail"

Any painter worth his paycheck will know what is required to do the job in the most effective and efficient manner for the situation and use the appropriate tools and procedures to get it done.


ProTip: Clean your brushes immediately after use and store them in the case they came in.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Pro Tip: :jester:


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

MRoss said:


> "If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail"
> 
> ProTip: Clean your brushes immediately after use and store them in the case they came in.


Lazy Painter Tip:

Throw your brush away and charge the customer for a new one! :jester:


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## paintguy3255 (May 30, 2008)

I'm told I'm old school. 

I don't use poles
I use 7" rollers exclusively
I don't spray
Everything gets 2 coats
I mix my own colors for primers and stain
I only use top line paints
only oil base for int. wood

It's funny when I hire a new guy and they think I'm nuts. Then they paint with me 1 day and say " I don't know how you did that so fast and good without poles and 9" rollers!

But I keep 3 guys busy 52 weeks a year and we all make better money than most

Old school rules


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## tsunamicontract (May 3, 2008)

haha I could spend half a day looking and not find a 7 in roller. Now they have 18 in covers next to the registers like they are gum or gossip magazines or something you buy on impulse.


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

not one the posters here are old school

stroke your ego all you want, and wax poetic 

pump yourself up

it feels good


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

johnthepainter said:


> not one the posters here are old school
> 
> stroke your ego all you want, and wax poetic
> 
> ...


This post is a bit poetic in a free form kind of way. 

If you take the phrase "old school" literally, there probably arent many people in any trade that are technically old school. The blacksmith, stone mason and plaster guys are the only ones that I know of who continue to embrace the tradition of their craft. And each of them, at least in my region, is a dying art.

If a painter wanted to be truly old school, he would not make it too long in business. These are not the good old days.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I've made 6" brushes outta my own hair damnit! Now can only make 1/4 ' brushes.

That's Old School!!......Damnit!!


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

Cave painting with charcoal ash and raw umber :wheelchair:


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

Old school term is irrelevant because Im sure back in the day there were olders guys who painted before who we consider "old school" who thought those guys were doing things wrong or different. 
I am sure 30 years from now we will be the old school guys.. times change and it was always done better in the past.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

This is one of my first works :icon_cool:


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## paint_booger (Jul 1, 2007)

aaron61 said:


> This is one of my first works :icon_cool:


Nice Bison! I've been working on my cave man faux finishes. It's been so long I forget how. TY!


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

This is true "OLD SCHOOL"


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

aaron61 said:


> This is true "OLD SCHOOL"


 
that guy wasn't a painter,,,,he was just a tagger,,,,,darned vandals


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

johnthepainter said:


> that guy wasn't a painter,,,,he was just a tagger,,,,,darned vandals


:laughing:


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## Paul_R (Apr 19, 2007)

Well OK I'll bite on this one. I am "Old School" with plaster repairs. I do not have any source for horse hair, but the gypsum and perlite based plasters do the job for me. I also like to use wood lath when possible. I once worked for a lady who was amazed by how fast I was able to paint her ceilings, and evidently, she had done it in the past with a brush, taking all day. Really old school. I guess before there were unions. As far as a 6 inch brush made with my own hair, not firm enough, and only in my practicing hippy days. Maybe the influence of the weed would make up for the need for precision. Also the post by aaron 61 would qualify for matching goverment funds, as long as you add some ingredients, what were they? And dog gone it my own son has done some beautiful art work from cans of spray paint, and he is definetly NOT A VANDAL!!!! I am "Old School" and proud of it! Scuse my grammer and spellin, as I am using my wifes stupid MAC computer. It don't have spell check built in, and my dictionary is down in the basement:drink::drink: Happy painting, Paul.


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

i visited fort matanzas in St Augustine Fla.,,,,,,,there were some names written on an interior wall, and they were dated from the 1800's

i thought this was pretty cool that these fellas wrote this stuff

but the fort was from the early 1700's,,,,,,,,,and the writtting was from early american vandals,,,,,lol

cool fort though,,,,check it out


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## Brush and Roller (Jun 3, 2008)

I guess I was lucky enought to learn the old school ways as well. I actually prefer brush and roller to spraying.


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## Housepainter (Jan 6, 2008)

To me the old schools guy were the 3-4 men who showed up at my parents house back in 1958-59. The house was a typical white lap board house with a single one car garage (storage building). That hand sanded, scraped, to the bear wood, then caulked, filled, primed, and painted. I am sure the re-glazed the wooden windows, etc. Not sure what my folks paid for that in that economy. Do not remember any type electric sanders, scrapers, etc. 

Those guys if they are still living would be in their 80's or 90's today.:thumbup::notworthy:


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

I have heard from the old time carpenters I know that their fathers spoke of painters who worked in only two colors here in New England: red and white. The red was tinted with brick dust and the white was milk paint. That explains why the houses were white and the barns were red. 

Then there was that ugly, ugly era where petroleum, yes used motor oil, was used on siding. Yikers.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

It's nice to remember "Old Skool" but the truth is it stunk. How many of you really want to ride a horse to work? Use brushes only (no roller)? Beer in cans that you needed a church key for? Wooden ladders? Hauling your tools in a covered wagon? Oh, and nobody to paint for because most did it themselves. There may be some chest puffing up going on, but who really want the so called "Old Skool" days................................
As far as using 7 inchers


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

*Would you want a door that was rolled with a short nap roller, tipped off with a brus*

*:wheelchair: **:wheelchair: **:wheelchair: **:wheelchair:*
I've worked with a old school painter now for 10 yr. Yes it great that they did everything by hand and I love to hear those old painter story's. but the problem I've ran in to is moving on. Paint has changed in so many ways since then. they have no concept of the new paint. unlike the old school paint that had better coverage. 

* Would you want a door that was rolled with a short nap roller, tipped off with a brush or that modern sprayed finished? 


*


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## Purdygirl (Mar 3, 2008)

This is a great thread! I'm not old skool enough not to use a pole, but I hate to spray and I totally rock the 3 inch block Purdys. I work with a young guy who loves to spray, so we have it worked out perfectly. We argue ALL THE TIME about which is faster, spray or roll & brush. I think each has its place, it really depends on the job. Overall though, I think spraying is overrated with the young crowd. Way more materials (blue tape and 3M plastic $$$) way more clean up and just an overall horrible atmosphere with taped off windows and wearing masks.. ugh.
I live in an area where there are lots of really wealthy people and they want old skool craftspeople working on their houses. They're always relieved when I tell them we're not spraying. I think a combo of old and new is ideal.
I apprenticed in Europe for 4 years back in the 80's. One of the most valueable skills I learned over there was color-matching by hand. I can still mix and match just about any color out there, in any type of paint, plaster, whatever. Blows people's minds! Mixing colors on site is a huge advantage to get into the super custom-no-spray-big-money scene. Some people love the fact that they have a color nobody else has (at least they think they have a color nobody else has..):whistling2:Now that's old school.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

My mother and father had a farm for years and all the out buildings were coated with used motor oil that was saved up just for that purpose


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

aaron61 said:


> My mother and father had a farm for years and all the out buildings were coated with used motor oil that was saved up just for that purpose


mine too ....but it was all the post and rail fencing. Funny, I forgot all about that.... I can smell it now.


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## tsunamicontract (May 3, 2008)

wonder if that is where semi trans stain came from . . .
how did that motor oil hold up?


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## Housepainter (Jan 6, 2008)

As to sprayers, they do have their place, but most of my customers would not allow a sprayer near their homes. They prefer the brush and roller. One of the leading builders and re-modelers in our area, will not allow any sprayers on his job sites. He builds homes in the 1/2m and up range. His remodels are top notch.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Housepainter said:


> As to sprayers, they do have their place, but most of my customers would not allow a sprayer near their homes. They prefer the brush and roller. One of the leading builders and re-modelers in our area, will not allow any sprayers on his job sites. He builds homes in the 1/2m and up range. His remodels are top notch.


It's funny you say that, because the highest end builder we ever worked with was the same way. We have 3 spray rigs but to be honest, they rarely are used. Purdy girl had it right, a combination of old and new works best.


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

old scool guys sucked,,,,,ive spent the last few years fixing all of their messes


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

all of those customers that wont allow a sprayer near their homes is suspect to me,,,,,, quite possibly they have been led to think that spraying is a mistake,,,and they could be re-educated


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Aren't you kind of a hipocrite? I see on your site that you:

*PLASTER REPAIR * experienced plaster 

*REPLICATE PLASTER MOULDINGS *Using mold 
making techniques

*VINTAGE HOMES * I have a passion for older 
homes. My wife and i own a 1920 Italianate. Let my 
passion work to your advantage when it comes to 
restoring, refurbishing, and repainting your vintage 
home. The needs of historical homes are different 
than those of the average home, and i am eager to 
please. 
*SASHES * Let me re-glaze those old double hung 
windows, and replace any broken glass. While i am 
working on you windows


Lotta "old scool" talent being used there. (impressive)


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

bikerboy said:


> Aren't you kind of a hipocrite? I see on your site that you:
> 
> *PLASTER REPAIR * experienced plaster
> 
> ...


The only thing questioning "old school" is the replicating of plaster mouldings, otherwise the rest is not old school... So what if he restores vintage or older homes, you can use updated techniques for all that. Reglazing isn't old school. I did my first windows last year... is last year old school? It just takes a knowledge of the technologies in today to gain the look of what used to be in the past. Nothing wrong with "old school" to some degree, but in a fast paced society that says "I want it now!"? You better be prepared to take less time for similar quality as what was in the past and the only way to do that is to be on top of technologies of your trade.


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

Old School is a two sided issue. Pick your battle and be successful with it.


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## Paul_R (Apr 19, 2007)

To me it seems like plastering to any degree would be old school. Most guys would repair damaged plaster with drywall, right? Aren't there fancy moldings made from plastic or wood used to replicate the old school molds that once formed plaster? Yes, there are no doubt upper end homes that get plaster walls, so is this old school, or not? Does the date that the technique is used determine the classification of old school, or is it the technique itself that defines the classification?

How about glazing those old sashes? Modern windows are made with a double pain sash that is energy efficient, and many people have replaced the old single pain glass windows with the energy efficient ones that do not have glazing. Are you old school if you reglaze old windows? I reglazed windows before the new energy efficient ones came out, and I will probably run across more. Glazing is a skill, and it will eventually be gone as more people become energy conservers, and replace their single pain windows. Glazing is an arcane art, as is plastering. 

Hey John those old school guys that you followed up on were not the craftsmen we are, I would bet, unless you actually know the people who did the work.

I love these philosopical discussions, especially after a day of stripping wall paper!BOORING! It provides some mental stimulation.

How about it John and Jason?


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

yes ,,i am a hypocrite,,,,,and a flip flopper,,,,and a leg puller,,,,

a lot of those tasks i mention are the tasks that make good money, i had the privelidge of working with an old fart that taught them to me

new construction/tract homes seem like factory work to me,,,,,,,deadlines, people in my way,,,,azzhole bosses

so i jump at the chance to do old homes,,,,,,

a for this old school thing goes>>>> if we are paying respect to the old timers, and considering them a part of this painting legion,,,,,,i totally understand

the old painters here in my area have my deepest respect,,,,,,one just had a stroke a while back, and died,,,,,,,,i loved that dude

with the new fangled gadgetry, improved techniques,,,,,and current materials,,,,i cant imagine why anyone would prefer old school,,,,,

leave behind a legacy,,,,,,,take an apprentice under your wing,,,,teach him what you were taught,,,,,,be frim but fair,,,,,,ride them and haze them occaisionally,,,pay them well,,,,,

pass this old scool stuff on,,,,,,,they will adapt it, and build on it.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

What I would teach an apprentice:
1.Tool identification.
2. Basic material identification.
3. Proper clothing and PPE, based on company policy.
4. Ladder safety.
5. Basic drop cloth,tape, and plastic usage. (and how to fold drops) 
6. Basic understanding of surface prep. sanding pole ,scraper, sandpaper, and duster.
7. Basic spackle and putty techniques. 
8. How to dip, slap, and cut with a brush.
9. How to use a 9" roller with a 5 gallon bucket and grid.
10. How to roll a wall using the "N" or "W" technique.,with proper lay off.

Taping/texturing, spraying, wall covering, and tinting would come later.

I learned how to tape,texture, and tint from an old timer. I wouldn't be where I am today without his mentoring. God bless him.


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## greensboro84 (Feb 15, 2008)

doing low end rental repaints, i get the opportunity to try different techniques out on my own. ways to roll, cut and paint trim. i think thats old, just figuring it out for yourself. my employers showed me their way, and then i just build on it.


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## Mike's QP (Jun 12, 2008)

Shaggy Dog said:


> Yes thats me....we haven't had a job in recent memory that has had a ton of h.m. door frames...but i have one coming up...so i thought i would ask for some recommendations besides the old conventional 2 gal pot...


there are a couple ways i do it, oil or latex doesnt matter, the fastest way i do it commercially is to sand the frames, caulk the frames to the bare sheetrock, and spot prime if necessary, spray the inside of the frame first from the bottom of one side all the way to the bottom of the other, 2 passes, then the face 2 passes and the edges 2 passes, if you want 2 coats do it all again. i also mask off the floors and dust it really well so you dont get anything flying up. then i mask all my frames off and prime and paint the walls


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## Shaggy Dog (May 7, 2008)

I learned how to tape,texture, and tint from an old timer. I wouldn't be where I am today without his mentoring. God bless him.[/quote]











Man i was thinking the same thing today!!!!!!

I guess thats why i came back to the site after a long break(i think about painting,etsimating blah blah blah all the time) so i dont read or post much on this forum(i have other hobbies)....

Its been a tuff go the last couple yrs......but still here,still painting....brush,roll,spray whatever it takes....ive done some small jobs lately that just brought back some old memorys........

Anyway just sayin hey to all u painters....and i dont care if ur "old school guy","sprayer guy" whatever....if u get out of bed in the morning and do "this thing "we all do in one way or another to make a living....u have my utmost respect and i salute u all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Later........Brother Shaggy!!!!!


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## Metro M & L (Jul 21, 2009)

aaron61 said:


> This is one of my first works :icon_cool:


I'm older skool. Before iron oxide and charcoal monkey's just threw their fecal matter on the walls. Funny how the old becomes new again.


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## Shaggy Dog (May 7, 2008)

Joewho said:


> I'm an old school guy too.
> 
> Learned everything the hard way, but I learned.
> 
> ...


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Rare when a dead thread is revived by the OP. Post more Shaggy :thumbup:

So dad won't be happy whern you bust out the spray rig on his house huh? 
Just make your pop happy and know that is just the way he is.


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## Shaggy Dog (May 7, 2008)

Workaholic said:


> Rare when a dead thread is revived by the OP. Post more Shaggy :thumbup:
> 
> So dad won't be happy whern you bust out the spray rig on his house huh?
> Just make your pop happy and know that is just the way he is.


 





Ya the Powertwin 12,000 doesnt come out at pops house!!!!!!


As for diggin up old post...im on a few other forums(not paint related at all) so ifgured what the hell...im in the mood to talk painting (i guess) and i remebered this old post i started back in 08....Then i strated to re read and there were post on the thread way after i checked on it last.....


I would like to clarify something my "old school" term doean't necesarly(please excuse my spelling its horrible)mean "old world" or "master"level...

I guess its more of "how"u got into the trade and what style work u did,what part of the country ur from and the guys u worked with etc,etc......


Old School:My definitionI started full time in 1994...back then our painters union was kinda strong so if u wanted to do commercial painting or anything u were a union contractor...so i worked with a crew of guys on all kinds of diffrent work(mostly 1 guy in particular dad was no dummie)but always had other good painters that would work for us for 2-4yrs then we get slow and they go work for another guy come back blah blah blah....but it was "kinda"known that if u were gunna work for my dad u better be a pro....so we always had "good"guys stay working when we had work.......


Old catholic churches,were u rig ur own scaffold,doing a little plaster work oil base everything...sometimes we had a scaffold company come in a build a "dance floor"with our own rolling towers on top........Re paints,little old lady in nice neighborhood trim with Impervo all by brush,Old skool Doctor wants his ceilings(flat tape drywall painted)...but he wants P&L Lyte-All Flat oil with no roller marks and watches u all day long....hospitol work(yuck)Pollymix,zolotone blah blah re painting hospitol work even more Yuck!.......Painting and patching metal walls in labratorys with bondo putty spackle over spots and prime befor cutting and rolling panel by panel with P&L Vitrolyte(oil eggshell) but the customr wanting almost a sprayed look(these people r sticklers)but weve been there 20yrs doing the work....Retail/Resturant work...or mall work were ur working over top of everybody cuz "they gotta open the store"...slam and go straight commercial....old deck ceilings (oil dry fall) machine panitnig by hand


Please guys i am NOT trying to tell u that im better than u or faster than u...just trying to talk shop with my fellow painters...and give u a background and to learn from u guys.....especially u guys younger than me...When i got into the trade i was always the youngest guy...it was just a time frame thing i guess were u had all these guys that came up in the 50's,60's,70's and retired in 99,2000,01....the guy who i worked with all the time hes 73 yrs old and just came and hung 3 sheets of 54' vinyl for me(thats how much i hate doing vinyl)i took him to lunch and talked old times.......

sorry to ramble jsut been thinkin about this whole thing we all do in one way or another.....

why was my father not a brain surgeon...i'll leave u with this...when u have a big job or lots of work or u just dont know how to attack it.... this "old school"guy would say"Just Start Fu<kinPaintin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



SHaggy......................


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## antonito (Nov 2, 2009)

Going back to the whole "specialist" thing: When I started in the late nineties, which is definitely not old school, the company I was with didn't have specialists, they still sent people to get their tickets, and you didn't touch a brush or roller till you'd spent a lot of time doing prep work first.

When I came back to the company in the late, um, oughts(?) my first job was to supervise an exhibition hall which had been going on for 4 months already with the same 3 guys spraying. Once the spraying had been done, I said "ok, you go paint those doors", and the guy admitted he had never painted a door in his life. Hell, he could barely hold a brush. He'd started with another company, and on the first day the boss handed him a spray gun. 6 years later he had just bounced around from company to company doing nothing but spraying. I was absolutely floored. 

Now I've spent the last year teaching pretty much the whole company the basics, like in CAPainters list. I even had to explain to one of the other foreman the difference between the paint color and the paint material. We had P1 eggshell and P1 semigloss, and he couldn't understand the difference, he just kept saying "But it's P1, how can it be different?" ARGLEBARGLE I just about quit after hearing that

If the original owner (who taught me) came out of retirement to see this...I think he'd fire everyone. If I had my way, I sure would


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## Shaggy Dog (May 7, 2008)

antonito said:


> Going back to the whole "specialist" thing: When I started in the late nineties, which is definitely not old school, the company I was with didn't have specialists, they still sent people to get their tickets, and you didn't touch a brush or roller till you'd spent a lot of time doing prep work first.
> 
> When I came back to the company in the late, um, oughts(?) my first job was to supervise an exhibition hall which had been going on for 4 months already with the same 3 guys spraying. Once the spraying had been done, I said "ok, you go paint those doors", and the guy admitted he had never painted a door in his life. Hell, he could barely hold a brush. He'd started with another company, and on the first day the boss handed him a spray gun. 6 years later he had just bounced around from company to company doing nothing but spraying. I was absolutely floored.
> 
> ...


 



Thank you so much!!!!!!!! I'm LMAO.....This is what i mean....You just explained it in a way i couldn't.....The guy who taught u is gone but my dad and the guy who taught me r still alive....so they hear me bitch!!!!!

Again Thank U!!!!!


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

paintguy3255 said:


> I don't use poles
> I use 7" rollers exclusively
> I don't spray
> Everything gets 2 coats
> ...


If you are keeping three guys busy full time using those techniques, it means you have done a very good job attracting the type of customers that are good to work for, and impressing them to boot.

You are in such a ripe position to increase your income by about 20-25%.

And I mean without sacrificing quality. In fact when efficiency and profit go up, there is more room to achieve finer detail, all though I don't doubt that your detail is excellent already.

There are some things about new school that are better all around, and make more money too.

You should think about picking up some new-school techniques, I promise you will be very happy you did.


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## Shaggy Dog (May 7, 2008)

You should think about picking up some new-school techniques, I promise you will be very happy you did.[/quote]




Ur whole post is great....but this part sticks out......My right hand man was taught like me,my left hand man was not.....I have the best of both worlds......BUT THERE IS JUST NO WORK!!!!!!!!!....again thank u guys....again like i said i have really been thinking about painting lately....


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## VanDamme (Feb 13, 2010)

How many of us still carry a color rack around? I'd be lost without my color rack!

If you need to ask what a color rack is, you're not carrying one around


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## Shaggy Dog (May 7, 2008)

VanDamme said:


> How many of us still carry a color rack around? I'd be lost without my color rack!
> 
> If you need to ask what a color rack is, you're not carrying one around


 




My dad had a couple layin around the shop for years...how about "whiting'for the putty???...I have turned new skool on this one and alot of things to survive and use light spackle for holes.....


I've worked with every kinda of painter there is i think.....Union guys,exterior re-painter who worked for his dad then came to work for us for a few years but didnt like the pace on "some"work"...good painter just didnt come up that style...ive worked with the steel painter who needed a job came to work for us on big projects couldnt paint with brush or roller...but if i liked u i would keep ya..but if u were a ****head later bro!!!!

Ive worked with the "slicker" the clock watchers,the 8 hours everyday no matter what "guy"(always good painters but will milk u for eveything)...ive worked with the "i cut in with a spray gun guy".....I dont care how u came up...In this day and age i look at it this way...If u got a good attitude and u can work hard and steady and have been around painting at any time in ur life and i like u 'ill work with ya.......Period!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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