# What's something you've always wanted to say to a paint rep?



## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

A few things I say to new paint reps that I don't know:

-You don't need to ask me out to lunch or coffee, just reply promptly when I contact you regarding the occasional question/concern.

-Make sure the prices you quoted me are updated in every one of your stores.

-I don't expect you to know all the answers, so if you don't know, say so, and then try your hardest to find the answer ASAP.

-If I ask you your opinion as to the BEST product for my situation, I don't mean the best product your company offers, so if another manufacturer's product might be best, be honest, and I'll hold that honesty in high regard.

-On the rare occasion I call you out to my job-site regarding a problem with a product, I need insight, honesty, diligence and accountability. If the failure is due to one of your products, tell me, and we can both learn from it. But if you try to place the blame everywhere else EXCEPT for your product after I've exhausted all other possibilities, then you and I are gonna tangle.

-Try to stay up to date on all changes of products, discontinuing products, and new products, both from your store as well as other leading paints. 

-Unfortunately, you'll only see me at my most frustrated, since I'll never bother you unless I have a problem, so I apologize in advance. 


Am I missing some?


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> A few things I say to new paint reps that I don't know:
> 
> -You don't need to ask me out to lunch or coffee, just reply promptly when I contact you regarding the occasional question/concern.
> 
> ...


Not going to happen very often with a SW rep. they get paid to sell one brand for one thing, and they probably don't know anyway. Same at HD & Lowes.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Actually I like to ask them if they are going to try to sell something today.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

I wouldn't mind asking one if he could get his company to get "paint and primer in one" off the label.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

"is your paint as good as Behr's paint?"
Or "is your paint as super as super-duper paint?"


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

"Is there anything above Super Premium, I'm not sure that's premium enough?"



Proalliance coatings said:


> "is your paint as good as Behr's paint?"


Some paint rep is going to be browsing this site and have a rage-induced brain aneurism from reading this.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

Proalliance coatings said:


> Not going to happen very often with a SW rep. they get paid to sell one brand for one thing, and they probably don't know anyway. Same at HD & Lowes.


Agreed. I was lucky to find one of the few exceptions. His product knowledge was unparalleled; both in chemical composition as well as practical application. He'd give me, "off the record", advice which ended up steering me away from SW more than once. He went back to being a store manager after realizing the role of a rep was not a good fit for him.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Don't say "No one else has had this problem" when EVERYONE/MANY have had that problem.

Don't change the formula and then say "we have not changed the formula" only to later announce that the product has been changed back to the original formula.

Do not change a formula and then not let people know the formula has changed.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

DeanV said:


> Don't say "No one else has had this problem" when EVERYONE/MANY have had that problem.
> 
> Don't change the formula and then say "we have not changed the formula" only to later announce that the product has been changed back to the original formula.
> 
> Do not change a formula and then not let people know the formula has changed.


Hmmm. I don't believe I have heard of anyone else that has had that problem.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

" How do they teach you to keep a straight face when you tell people that?"


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Our SW rep is the only one I have never wanted to talk to or have him come by the site. All he wanted to do was shoot the chit and drink coffee plus he didn't know any thing.. Go away I WORK hard and don't have time for that. Behr, BM and Cali reps are pretty good, they don't want to hang out, they have to much to do.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

cdpainting said:


> Our SW rep is the only one I have never wanted to talk to or have him come by the site. All he wanted to do was shoot the chit and drink coffee plus he didn't know any thing.. Go away I WORK hard and don't have time for that. Behr, BM and Cali reps are pretty good, they don't want to hang out, they have to much to do.


Have you tried to switch reps? Most painters just assume they are stuck with the rep they got, but you CAN request another rep. I've only done it once, but had no prob getting a different rep.

Seems like you don't use that much SW anyways, so might not be that big of a deal to you, but if he's getting ANY of your business, he should at least be earning it.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

DeanV said:


> Don't say "No one else has had this problem" when EVERYONE/MANY have had that problem.
> 
> Don't change the formula and then say "we have not changed the formula" only to later announce that the product has been changed back to the original formula.
> 
> Do not change a formula and then not let people know the formula has changed.


Oh, and don't have a sale where anyone off the street can go in and get better pricing than mine...at least not without telling me first.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> Oh, and don't have a sale where anyone off the street can go in and get better pricing than mine...at least not without telling me first.


Now who would do such a thing? And why are there retail prices so high to begin with? Hmmm.


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## JoeAntilla (Mar 14, 2014)

When you call me up and tell me your in a contest with other sales reps to see who can sell the most of a certain product, maybe tell me what you'll win and we can split the prize.


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> Have you tried to switch reps? Most painters just assume they are stuck with the rep they got, but you CAN request another rep. I've only done it once, but had no prob getting a different rep.
> 
> Seems like you don't use that much SW anyways, so might not be that big of a deal to you, but if he's getting ANY of your business, he should at least be earning it.


Everyone that works at my store is my rep. Of course they have outside sales reps, but they ALL work for me when I ask them to. If I have questions, even the little guys that haul paint around will start making calls to find answers. My store's got good customer service and hustles hard to get things done. 

Just my experience*.


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

Thank You.


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## Different Strokes (Dec 8, 2010)

Our margins weren't as good this year as last, unfortunately my company will have to start paying you less for paint.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Give me the same recommendations or answers within the same year.

When working retail, we were advised how much tint could be put in a neutral base. Less than a year later, we were advised a customer's paint flashed because of too much tint - which was under the maximum amount - I know, I mixed it.


Years ago, when we showed up the next morning after applying s/g trim, the finish looked like someone had sprinkled fine dust on every surface. The paint had "seeded". The rep told us it was past it's shelf like. Again, less than a year later, seeding was due to moisture in a batch of paint.


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## Ric (Oct 26, 2011)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> A few things I say to new paint reps that I don't know:
> 
> -You don't need to ask me out to lunch or coffee, just reply promptly when I contact you regarding the occasional question/concern.
> 
> ...


Hey Stelz…

I agree with everything you have said. Your comments, frustrations and bullish*t detector are spot on - I can relate to, and appreciate, all those things you've mentioned and experienced…

Having said that, I am not a painter (way too hard of work for me)…nor am I a paint rep - but fair is fair, and if these things need to be said to paint reps in the field, I think it's only fair that (some) painters need to hear what frustrates paint reps…

Many paint reps in the field are very experienced and knowledgeable about product & application - many (certainly not all) have as much experience in the industry as the painter has…Having application experience does not necessarily outweigh the in-depth knowledge of a product's performance characteristics and limitations, especially when product has been applied in a manner inconsistent with product directions…

Paint technologies are changing everyday - credit must be given to those who study and understand this stuff. Changing technologies often times require changing application techniques - how a painter has done things for the last 30 years, is pretty much irrelevant to many of the new technologies - yet this is often the argument when a rep is called to resolve a complaint. It tends to be a bit counter-productive.

Believe it or not, threats, and bullying, are common when reps attempt to resolve a problem. Threats of taking your business elsewhere….Idle threats of lawsuits…threats of going over a reps head to get satisfaction…unreasonable demands for labor restitution when, at the very least, the painter shares the responsibility of a problem or failure…and, yes - even physical threats (usually made out of frustration but knowing that a salaried rep cannot respond). A couple years ago, a painter threatened to throw me from the peeling roof of a barn he had painted because I would not defend his application as proper - he felt he was entitled to several thousand dollars compensation for a hack job most painters would've been embarrassed to say they had done. This particular complaint was "amicably" settled in court with him having to strip, re-prime and re-paint a 5000 square foot roof at his own expense…I say "amicably" because he threatened to kill me, in graphic detail, outside of the courtroom - and in front of a sherrif's deputy, who whisked him off into what had to be a really fun police car ride. I actually get a lot of threats (sigh)…

I know there are frustrating company reps out there - I've seen 'em in action… I also know there are painters out there that I've often wondered who helps them tie their shoes in the mornings. The truth is, there are many good painters out there too - craftsmen in their field - that even I have consulted in times of complex and baffling issues. But there are also good reps out there too that can make a painters professional life so much easier if they'd just listen, and respect that what a rep does is equally important to a successful paint job as the application.

I'm sorry for the rant - and I don't mean to piss anybody off, but frustrations, like respect and communication, goes both ways.


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## Clearlycut (Dec 1, 2013)

Ric said:


> Hey Stelz…
> 
> I agree with everything you have said. Your comments, frustrations and bullish*t detector are spot on - I can relate to, and appreciate, all those things you've mentioned and experienced…
> 
> ...


Thank you Rick! Much respect and well said.
you articulated the ignorance of many painters. 
I know because i am a painter.
Funny how ive seen reps get blamed for alot.of stuff.
The same painter that says its the rep fault doesnt even dial the pump to the right psi on product labels.


Sent from my SM-G900P using PaintTalk.com mobile app


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## Repaintpro (Oct 2, 2012)

Wow.............reps are the same the world over. Same answers to questions, same crap even on this side of the planet!


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## paintpimp (Jun 29, 2007)

What I'm reading is that a paint rep is the "complaint' department for a store? Nothing else?


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## NACE (May 16, 2008)

Ric said:


> Hey Stelz…
> 
> I agree with everything you have said. Your comments, frustrations and bullish*t detector are spot on - I can relate to, and appreciate, all those things you've mentioned and experienced…
> 
> ...


Having been a rep for BM and currently for a major Lumber Company as well as a NACE Inspector, the stories I have of GC's Painters, Architects, Designers, Engineers, DOT, and homeowners other reps and estimators doing all the things you describe and more, including going after my kids and coming to my house drunk at 3 am with a loaded gun, I chalk it up to a learning experience and solidifying my honesty and integrity to insure the best possible timely response and advice. 

I ask that painters not get me to do all the takeoffs, specs, inspections, submittals, draw downs and correspondence with architects, GC's, Designers, etc, then give the job and business to another company because they were $.20 less per gallon plus a free spray rig. Or blame me when you put the wrong color on the surface. Or your job fails because you failed to follow my prep standard or data sheet info. Or take me to a hostile homeowner who is yelling and screaming and asking "where is your checkbook" because you already told them it's the paints fault and they will pay for it. Or using my inspection tools and not returning them or losing them, and then give the job to someone else because they didn't have the tools or know anything about floors. My $7,500 less then one year old floor grinder is in the shop getting repaired because I loaned it out and it was returned broken and without the $80 electric cord. Likely a $800 repair. We are all in this together and feeding our families. Treat the reps with respect and professional courtesy and call out the bad ones and teach them what your needs are. The job weeds out the bad ones. Even though I know 90% of the competitive reps in my market I always try to mentor and teach the ones that really care and have learned a lot and made great friends with several of the rookies and veterans. We are all just trying to feed our families. In my case put three daughters through College.


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## mr4pt (Jan 19, 2015)

As a rep, this thread is gold

Thanks


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

NACE said:


> Having been a rep for BM and currently for a major Lumber Company as well as a NACE Inspector, the stories I have of GC's Painters, Architects, Designers, Engineers, DOT, and homeowners other reps and estimators doing all the things you describe and more, including going after my kids and coming to my house drunk at 3 am with a loaded gun, I chalk it up to a learning experience and solidifying my honesty and integrity to insure the best possible timely response and advice.
> 
> I ask that painters not get me to do all the takeoffs, specs, inspections, submittals, draw downs and correspondence with architects, GC's, Designers, etc, then give the job and business to another company because they were $.20 less per gallon plus a free spray rig. Or blame me when you put the wrong color on the surface. Or your job fails because you failed to follow my prep standard or data sheet info. Or take me to a hostile homeowner who is yelling and screaming and asking "where is your checkbook" because you already told them it's the paints fault and they will pay for it. Or using my inspection tools and not returning them or losing them, and then give the job to someone else because they didn't have the tools or know anything about floors. My $7,500 less then one year old floor grinder is in the shop getting repaired because I loaned it out and it was returned broken and without the $80 electric cord. Likely a $800 repair. We are all in this together and feeding our families. Treat the reps with respect and professional courtesy and call out the bad ones and teach them what your needs are. The job weeds out the bad ones. Even though I know 90% of the competitive reps in my market I always try to mentor and teach the ones that really care and have learned a lot and made great friends with several of the rookies and veterans. We are all just trying to feed our families. In my case put three daughters through College.


To the painters, please remember that when you ask a sales rep to help you solve a problem, there are a lot of questions they have to ask that may sound like they are accusing you of doing something wrong. They are in a way doing an investigation of the problem, and some of the questions are pretty direct. They are in no way trying to tell you that you don't know what you are doing, but just trying to piece together what happened to cause the failure. From my experience, failures are rarely caused by the paint itself, but some other condition that was overlooked or unknown when the paint was applied. They are trying to find out what it was, and find a remedy so it doesn't happen again.

Also from my experience, 90% of the paint failures come from the 10% of the painters that only buy the cheapest paint they can buy. They are the ones who will buy paint down the street to save $1.00 a gallon. They are also the ones who tend to take it personally when you try to resolve their problem, or think you are just trying to make more profit when you tell them they need a better paint to resolve their issue.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

This thread is great as it illustrates the truth about all professions and people. There are a hacks, liars, and cheats that spoil the reputation of the greater number of honorable and respectable people.

We all fight the same battle to minimize those who give us all black-eyes.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

It's funny how wide a spectrum of people you'll see. You can tell the reps who have graced us with their presence in this thread are the good ones- if they didn't care, they wouldn't be here. As I've mentioned in another thread, I think my Ben Moore rep is a really smart, honest guy and he's got 30+ years of experience (although I did just send him a ranty letter moments ago about our shipping being late for the second time in a row, losing me tons of jobs. Not his fault, but still need him to pass it on).

On the other side of the coin, I had a Rustoleum rep early on in my painting career who couldn't tell me if any of their paints was VOC free or what the VOC contents were in them, and made no effort to get me any answer, either.


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## [email protected] (Mar 1, 2008)

I would hope they stay around long enough that I can build a business relationship with them. In stead of having a new one as fast as I hopefully change my underwear. 
David


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> I would hope they stay around long enough that I can build a business relationship with them. In stead of having a new one as fast as I hopefully change my underwear.
> David


That's what SW is like around here. 

We had the same PPG rep for many, many years, but he hung me out to dry on a big stain job.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

NACE said:


> Having been a rep for BM and currently for a major Lumber Company as well as a NACE Inspector, the stories I have of GC's Painters, Architects, Designers, Engineers, DOT, and homeowners other reps and estimators doing all the things you describe and more, including going after my kids and coming to my house drunk at 3 am with a loaded gun, I chalk it up to a learning experience and solidifying my honesty and integrity to insure the best possible timely response and advice.
> 
> I ask that painters not get me to do all the takeoffs, specs, inspections, submittals, draw downs and correspondence with architects, GC's, Designers, etc, then give the job and business to another company because they were $.20 less per gallon plus a free spray rig. Or blame me when you put the wrong color on the surface. Or your job fails because you failed to follow my prep standard or data sheet info. Or take me to a hostile homeowner who is yelling and screaming and asking "where is your checkbook" because you already told them it's the paints fault and they will pay for it. Or using my inspection tools and not returning them or losing them, and then give the job to someone else because they didn't have the tools or know anything about floors. My $7,500 less then one year old floor grinder is in the shop getting repaired because I loaned it out and it was returned broken and without the $80 electric cord. Likely a $800 repair. We are all in this together and feeding our families. Treat the reps with respect and professional courtesy and call out the bad ones and teach them what your needs are. The job weeds out the bad ones. Even though I know 90% of the competitive reps in my market I always try to mentor and teach the ones that really care and have learned a lot and made great friends with several of the rookies and veterans. We are all just trying to feed our families. In my case put three daughters through College.


I really even can't imagine having to deal with the threats, especially when it's threats which could involve my family. I don't believe in wasting a reps time to do menial tasks. I don't ask them to do anything for me unless I have a problem which I can't solve. Maybe once or twice a year will I contact them regarding a product issue. Other than that, I chalk it up to business expense. 

I have some great reps that I can trust if/when the situation arises. I choose to, "not go to the well", too often, so that when I do have the rare circumstance which requires their assistance, they know it's likely to be valid, and to be taken seriously.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

paintpimp said:


> What I'm reading is that a paint rep is the "complaint' department for a store? Nothing else?


A good paint rep can be a valuable resource.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> A few things I say to new paint reps that I don't know:
> 
> -You don't need to ask me out to lunch or coffee, just reply promptly when I contact you regarding the occasional question/concern.
> 
> ...


It's amazing how demanding you are. You act like you employee your SW sales rep. :blink:

I have been buying paint from SW since 1989 and have never had theses issues.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

PaintersUnite said:


> It's amazing how demanding you are. You act like you employee your SW sales rep. :blink:
> 
> I have been buying paint from SW since 1989 and have never had theses issues.


Yeh, you're right. Why should he expect sales reps to be sales reps, have knowledge of product, and be courteous and timely. That's outrageous!


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Today I got to say a new one to my rep:

"When I order paint (and it's a week late), is there something we can do to make sure it's not paintsicles next time? Believe it or not, frozen paint doesn't sell or work very well!"

Okay, I said it a lot nicer than that, but still... that's been my day. A week late on the paint shipment and 95% of it is frozen. Contractors, DIY's, and myself are hung out to dry. Good thing I'm not trying to build a good reputation around here or anything :jester:


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

Woodford said:


> Yeh, you're right. Why should he expect sales reps to be sales reps, have knowledge of product, and be courteous and timely. That's outrageous!


I never said that. 

But to walk into a SW store and patronize a sales rep, by giving him a lecturing speech, is disrespectful. 

How would you feel if your customer gave you a lecture prior to hiring you? Would you not consider that a red flag? I believe most painters would run from those types of clients. As Mr. Gough would say, "I would put them on my fecal roster"!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

PaintersUnite said:


> It's amazing how demanding you are. You act like you employee your SW sales rep. :blink:
> 
> I have been buying paint from SW since 1989 and have never had theses issues.


Consider yourself quite lucky. I have been in the paint business in three states (California,Ohio,And Okla by god homa), and have found these complaints to be quite common. In the 9 years I worked for Pittsburgh paint in Columbus, the SW store down the street went through 7 store managers and 10 outside reps. ( I like to think I had something to do with that!)


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Woodford said:


> Today I got to say a new one to my rep:
> 
> "When I order paint (and it's a week late), is there something we can do to make sure it's not paintsicles next time? Believe it or not, frozen paint doesn't sell or work very well!"
> 
> Okay, I said it a lot nicer than that, but still... that's been my day. A week late on the paint shipment and 95% of it is frozen. Contractors, DIY's, and myself are hung out to dry. Good thing I'm not trying to build a good reputation around here or anything :jester:


Maybe you should switch to P&L. All my paint comes on a nice cozy heated trailer!


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

I think I smell February :thumbup:


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

daArch said:


> I think I smell February :thumbup:


God I've been waiting for this spectacle ever since you said this is where our Mods shine and earn their keep!

Make us proud boys.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Wildbill7145 said:


> God I've been waiting for this spectacle ever since you said this is where our Mods shine and earn their keep!
> 
> Make us proud boys.


I guess being from California, I really don't get this whole cabin fever thing. As far as I can tell, people are working and things are looking better then they were just a few years ago. I'm not certain all of the anticipation for a Winter Fever Fest is going to yield anything more then minor squabbles over coating application.

Pretty boring when things are good and we're all getting along. Probably because there's no reason to drink every evening.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

CApainter said:


> I guess being from California, I really don't get this whole cabin fever thing. As far as I can tell, people are working and things are looking better then they were just a few years ago. I'm not certain all of the anticipation for a Winter Fever Fest is going to yield anything more then minor squabbles over coating application.
> 
> Pretty boring when things are good and we're all getting along. Probably because there's no reason to drink every evening.


I dunno CA, I'm seeing signs of this February rage fest all over the interweb. Another forum I mod on has a thread called "I LOL'd", obviously for jokes, etc. It turned into an all out flame war yesterday. I threatened to post gifs like this one if the guys kept it up. They kept it up.

Even cute pics of widdle puppies couldn't dissuade their anger.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

PaintersUnite said:


> I never said that.
> 
> But to walk into a SW store and patronize a sales rep, by giving him a lecturing speech, is disrespectful.
> 
> How would you feel if your customer gave you a lecture prior to hiring you? Would you not consider that a red flag? I believe most painters would run from those types of clients. As Mr. Gough would say, "I would put them on my fecal roster"!


On the other hand, he never said "hey guys guess what I just said to my SW rep!" did he? It's just stuff he mentions to new reps, and you don't know how he brings it up and in what tone. It all seems pretty respectful and reasonable to me, and mirrors my sentiments towards my own reps. And, maybe I'm a bit dense, but I don't see the part where SW is referenced at all. I guess what I'm saying, PaintersUntie, is that maybe we should give him the benefit of the doubt 

If I had a dollar for every customer that's lectured me prior to buying something, well, I could go ahead and retire. And I'm a young chap.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Proalliance coatings said:


> Maybe you should switch to P&L. All my paint comes on a nice cozy heated trailer!


Back, temptation, back! :devil2:


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

PaintersUnite said:


> It's amazing how demanding you are. You act like you employee your SW sales rep. :blink:
> 
> I have been buying paint from SW since 1989 and have never had theses issues.


I wouldn't expect anything from a rep that I, myself, wouldn't be willing to provide if I were a rep. Just like painters, our customers expect a certain level of skill, knowledge & diligence, (which we hopefully understand and pick up on before ever even submitting our bids). The difference is, we are usually just assigned a paint rep depending upon our area. There is no screening process, no meeting of the minds as far as expectations, etc.

Most reps have already been around the block for quite a while, so when they're assigned as my new rep, our conversations are much more along the lines of which products & materials I prefer to use and which products I'm most interested in trying. I'll notify them before I'm about to make a new equipment purchase in order to give them first right of refusal, and if they can't compete with the prices I've found, or if they don't have time to even look, no prob.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Woodford said:


> On the other hand, he never said "hey guys guess what I just said to my SW rep!" did he? It's just stuff he mentions to new reps, and you don't know how he brings it up and in what tone. It all seems pretty respectful and reasonable to me, and mirrors my sentiments towards my own reps. And, maybe I'm a bit dense, but I don't see the part where SW is referenced at all. I guess what I'm saying, PaintersUntie, is that maybe we should give him the benefit of the doubt
> 
> If I had a dollar for every customer that's lectured me prior to buying something, well, I could go ahead and retire. And I'm a young chap.


Same here. It's really about setting expectations. Contrary to what was mentioned upthread, clients who are very clear about their expectations are our favorites. Telling me exactly what you want is not what gets you on the Fecal Roster...quite the opposite.

The harsh reality is that our job is to serve the clients, and the rep's job is to serve us.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

daArch said:


> I think I smell February :thumbup:


Yes, but I will not give in to the dark-side again. Don't feed the flame and it'll burn out all by itself. Easier said than done tho.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Oh god, cabinfever on paint talk is overrated......


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Oh god, cabinfever on paint talk is overrated......


Watching paint dry is more exciting than this! Which is... er... huh. First time I've used that phrase since being in the paint industry, I think. Brb, need to rethink my values.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

daArch said:


> I think I smell February :thumbup:


I smell something too, but I really don't think that's what February smells like.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> I guess being from California, I really don't get this whole cabin fever thing. As far as I can tell, people are working and things are looking better then they were just a few years ago. I'm not certain all of the anticipation for a Winter Fever Fest is going to yield anything more then minor squabbles over coating application.
> 
> Pretty boring when things are good and we're all getting along. Probably because there's no reason to drink every evening.


its kind of like a month with no surf. Flat wind driven crap for 4 weeks.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

I got some good reps, I value their insight and knowledge of the coatings. What bugs me is when I get the 5th grade lesson on paint. Then I understand they are use to dealing with 5th grade painters and its become robotic for them. I also don't like feeling like im dealing with a car salesman showing me sll the bells and whistles. If im buying your paint im already sold on you, stop selling and start acting like a partnership. 

I love you Joe! (SW Rep)


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Proalliance coatings said:


> its kind of like a month with no surf. Flat wind driven crap for 4 weeks.


Oh wait a minute! I just saw that you are in the SF bay area. So it's kind of like the surf you always have! ( little socal jab there)


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

Gough said:


> Same here. It's really about setting expectations. Contrary to what was mentioned upthread, clients who are very clear about their expectations are our favorites. *Telling me exactly what you want is not what gets you on the Fecal Roster...quite the opposite.*
> 
> The harsh reality is that our job is to serve the clients, and the rep's job is to serve us.


Mr. Gough, here is a list of things I've always wanted to tell a painting contractor; 


If you say you will be here at 8am, I expect you here 8am sharp. Please don't keep me waiting to let you in, I have a job and I have to be there at 9am.
If you say you are going to start the job on Feb, 19th, please don't call me at a moments notice to postpone.
If I give you my business, I expect you to respect my home at all times.
I require your men to wear "approved" booties throughout my home, due to my carpets. Been down that road before, with other contractors tracking dirt. Please don't let this happen.
If you say you are going to use SW Super paint, please don't substitute the product with an inferior grade.
I expect you to have 3 painters on my project at all time, and I expect them to work from 8am till 4:30pm Monday thru Friday, without any disruption to the work schedule. I need this project completed with as little inconvenience as possible. We've fired our last painting contractor for failing to accommodate our needs.
You can not park your vehicles in my driveway. Contractors in the past have left motor oil stains on my new concrete. We will deduct any damage your crew creates, from the final bill, if the need arises.
I expect you to provide a certificate of insurance for both liability and workers comp, your state license info, along with a minimum (3) references.
It is required of your staff, to apply the paints as recommended by the paint manufacture (please read all paint cans for proper application).
If you have any questions, please contact me asap.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

PaintersUnite said:


> Mr. Gough, here is a list of things I've always wanted to tell a painting contractor;
> 
> 
> If you say you will be here at 8am, I expect you here 8am sharp. Please don't keep me waiting to let you in, I have a job and I have to be there at 9am.
> ...


And don't forget to put down drops, unless the carpet is being replaced.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> And don't forget to put down drops, unless the carpet is being replaced.


Of that list, there are only two that we don't routinely do: booties and SW. We'll use dedicated indoor footwear...and Benny Moore.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> And don't forget to put down drops, unless the carpet is being replaced.


Personally, I put em down even if they SAY the carpet is being re placed:yes:


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

PaintersUnite said:


> Mr. Gough, here is a list of things I've always wanted to tell a painting contractor;
> 
> 
> If you say you will be here at 8am, I expect you here 8am sharp. Please don't keep me waiting to let you in, I have a job and I have to be there at 9am.
> ...


DING DING DING! We have a winner!


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

To my rep from PPG / Porters Paints :
THANKS :thumbsup: prices are great, service is outstanding, products work as should and he balances his service just right ... fast call once a month to thank me and see if he can help with anything and always answers or returns phone call in a timely manner 

only sales pitch i get is once a week e-mail on specials

SW rep: 9 out of 10 calls is to sale me something or to take me to lunch to sell me something, i HATE sales calls it waste my time 

to be fair i haven't used much SW in the last few years and never worked with this rep so i can't rate him. We have set up a meeting with him & his boss to see if we can work things out but they have a lot to over come for me to give them my business.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

PaintersUnite said:


> [*]You can not park your vehicles in my driveway. Contractors in the past have left motor oil stains on my new concrete. We will deduct any damage your crew creates, from the final bill, if the need arises.


Funny story

In my youth, I delivered pizzas one summer for some extra cash. We had a customer call back one time that was absolutely irate because I'd left a "huge oil stain all down his driveway."

I drove all the way back out with my boss to take a look. It was condensation from my A/C dripping down. It was like 105 degrees outside, and it was a streak of water. Most of it had evaporated by the time I made it there.

People


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Wildbill7145 said:


> I dunno CA, I'm seeing signs of this February rage fest all over the interweb. Another forum I mod on has a thread called "I LOL'd", obviously for jokes, etc. It turned into an all out flame war yesterday. I threatened to post gifs like this one if the guys kept it up. They kept it up.
> 
> Even cute pics of widdle puppies couldn't dissuade their anger.


It's been my tactic to diffuse the fireworks by mentioning the phenomenon a few weeks before the season opens. Lately, the biological waste product has come in acute juxtaposition with the environmental exchange unit later in the season. Hopefully, keeping on top of it and diffusing the tempers at the slightest hint, throws a wet blanket on those flame fests. 

And sometimes you just gotta start throwing the combatants out of the sand box before all hell breaks loose. It only takes a couple of trolls to drag others down to their level. 

"Can't we all just get along"


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

daArch said:


> Lately, the biological waste product has come in acute juxtaposition with the environmental exchange unit later in the season.


Had to read this twice :001_tongue:


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

daArch said:


> It's been my tactic to diffuse the fireworks by mentioning the phenomenon a few weeks before the season opens. Lately, the biological waste product has come in acute juxtaposition with the environmental exchange unit later in the season. Hopefully, keeping on top of it and diffusing the tempers at the slightest hint, throws a wet blanket on those flame fests.
> 
> And sometimes you just gotta start throwing the combatants out of the sand box before all hell breaks loose. It only takes a couple of trolls to drag others down to their level.
> 
> "Can't we all just get along"


Obviously, this isn't your first rodeo.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

chrisn said:


> Personally, I put em down even if they SAY the carpet is being re placed:yes:



If I could thank you more than once, I woulda.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Why are you pouring Promar 200 into that empty superpaint bucket? True story.


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## mr4pt (Jan 19, 2015)

Proalliance coatings said:


> Why are you pouring Promar 200 into that empty superpaint bucket? True story.



Serious question..
Is sp that much better than pm 200?
I haven't been a SW rep since 2000, back then the 200 was more painter friendly than the sp.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Woodford said:


> Had to read this twice :001_tongue:


That was the beam talkin.


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## Clearlycut (Dec 1, 2013)

Seriously my uncle swears by sherwin has and always will. His work is top notch always has been.
Sherwin is not my go too. 
Now that i have a decent relationship with most people at stores. I use whatever the homeowner would like. (Unless its garbage) and whats the closet to the job im working on.

Sent from my SM-G900P using PaintTalk.com mobile app


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

mr4pt said:


> Serious question..
> Is sp that much better than pm 200?
> I haven't been a SW rep since 2000, back then the 200 was more painter friendly than the sp.


It used to be quite common years ago for painters to use SuperPaint for walls and ProMar 200 for trim. SuperPaint has a "drag" engineered into it to force DIYers and some painters to put more paint on the brush to keep it from "dragging". That was the great advance that was cause for it to be the Superist of paints.


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## williamh51272 (Feb 8, 2015)

Don't call me when I'm on a 40 foot ladder and expect me to answer


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## BuckeyePainter (Feb 14, 2014)

My questions to ask a paint rep:

1.) " Do you really like lying?"
2.) "Why do you substitute a great brand with a crappy brand just because you ran out of stock?"
3.) "How come you can't make it to the site before lunch when the store isn't that far away?"
AND FOR THE WIN:
4.) "When is the last time you REALLY put a brush or roller in paint FOR A LIVING? 19-something?"


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

Here's something I actually want to say to a paint rep... "I need your assistance."

I am fortunate that my local SW store has two GREAT employees. One has over 30 years of experience with color matching and selling/knowledge of products. I think the fact that she got started up north gives also gives her an edge (she knows her oils and how wood should be prepped). The other employee was a painter for over 30 years and he does not mind sharing the techniques he used or answering my dumb questions.

Since I don't do large-scale stuff or haven't run into anything that I couldn't get an answer to from either of them or from Paint Talk, I really haven't had the need to use my rep.


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## paintpimp (Jun 29, 2007)

BuckeyePainter said:


> My questions to ask a paint rep:
> 
> 1.) " Do you really like lying?"
> 2.) "Why do you substitute a great brand with a crappy brand just because you ran out of stock?"
> ...


Answers

1. People don't "like" to lie. Human nature and circumstances bring out the worst in people. I personally stay away from lying for moral and professional reasons. But, I am lied to by clients on an hourly basis. Go's both sides of the fence.

2. If it's impossible to get you product in time for you to finish the job. I would substitute the next best level grade of paint.

3. Did you make an appointment? My job starts at my home office and I cover 4 stores. I may not live near that store. 

4. Do you want me to be a "failed" painter that couldn't make my business work and go work for a paint company and try to help you with your business? That's like asking you why you weren't a rep before you became a painter. You want us to have real world experience. Help us with in the field experience.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

paintpimp said:


> Answers
> 
> 1. People don't "like" to lie. Human nature and circumstances bring out the worst in people. I personally stay away from lying for moral and professional reasons. But, I am lied to by clients on an hourly basis. Go's both sides of the fence.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you have a good amount of the "personal accountability" that I have been harping about. There seems to be less and less of it every day in the paint business. Well just about anywhere someone sells a product it seems.


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## paintpimp (Jun 29, 2007)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> A few things I say to new paint reps that I don't know:
> 
> -You don't need to ask me out to lunch or coffee, just reply promptly when I contact you regarding the occasional question/concern.
> 
> ...


Why can I only see you are when you are most frustrated? Everything else you have listed comes from good relationship building. You want a rep to work for you, you need to work with them.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I keep scanning this thread thinking there might be something I could contribute. Alas, there's not.

I have nothing that I haven't already said to my suppliers. Although I haven't always received a response in my favor. At least one I've been working with for twenty years has always made an effort to steer me in the right direction. However, I also made an effort to learn as much about coatings as time allowed in order for our communications to be expedient and productive. Taking the SSPC C1 course helped.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

paintpimp said:


> Why can I only see you are when you are most frustrated? Everything else you have listed comes from good relationship building. You want a rep to work for you, you need to work with them.



Why waste your time and mine by asking to visit my job-site when everything is fine? It doesn't build a relationship. I have reps that I communicate with regularly via phone call, text & email. My relationship with them would not be strengthened by having them take me out to lunch or coming to my job-site to make small talk. 

I talked to one of my reps 4 times last week. I tried out a new product, gave him honest feedback, and all communications were by phone. How is this lacking?


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

To go back to the original question, here's what I'd like to say to one of our area reps:


Dear *** rep,

I waited a few months for you to get back to me with your company's recommendation for a product to cover the severe premature fading ( your words) of the previous product you recommended. Since I knew this failure was going to cost us $10,000+ to correct, I wanted to be sure about the product. Since I never heard back from you, I finally gave up.

After 25+ years of using your company's products almost exclusively, I jumped ship for BM and we couldn't be happier.


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## paintpimp (Jun 29, 2007)

It's not lacking. It's actually great. Your last scenarios were not on your original post.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

paintpimp said:


> It's not lacking. It's actually great. Your last scenarios were not on your original post.


The first sentence in my original post is, "A few things I say to new paint reps that I don't know". This post is not about the reps we already know and trust. It's not a comprehensive portrayal of interactions with all reps...just the ones I don't know.


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## Jay23 (Oct 23, 2014)

As a guy who has worn both pairs of shoes at different times over my 25yrs. Going from painter to painter rep & then back to painter I understand this topic completely. Truthfully, in my 8yrs being a rep I never met anyone who said "I've been dreaming of being a paint rep since I was a little boy". Most paint reps are young people trying to get a start in the working world. They are low paying jobs that don't offer a lot of great moments. It is a thankless job. Your performance is based on what you sold TODAY not that huge job you got last week and your customers only want you to be the cheapest price and be there for him when HE needs. When I was selling I would walk on job sites hoping to meet a potential customer only to get what I call the "stink eye". You know that look..it's that "who is this ahole". I agree most painters don't want to see their rep until there is a problem...have you ever thought about yourself and how comfortable you would be going to see only customer who have problems. Not a fun time for you and it doesn't build much of a relationship. 
Why do new reps wanna come out to your job? Cause none of them have seen real painters work! They've heard about it in trainings and maybe seen video but all they know is what the company tells them. They usually have no field experience at all and if your gonna talk about anything but price on your next sales call you need to know something! You guys who have been painting in the field for years should be flattered instead of annoyed. You have the opportunity to help teach and share your work experience. Someone in this world thinks you are someone, and that what you have dedicated your life to has value and they wanna hear about it from you! Your on this thread because NOONE at tonight's dinner party or in the bar wants to hear you talk about fast set up time of your new semi-gloss. They don't care that you have to restrip a deck cuz you had a failure. Your rep does! A good rep can work with you just for the price of your paint. He can be a troubleshooter, generate leads and an overall ambassador for your company, giving your name out for jobs or just a "yes I know him, he has a great company" to a future customer. Agreed that not all reps are good and can do these things but thats life...I'm still looking for a trusted car mechanic lol


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Good points. I'm just glad this thread isn't "What's something you've always wanted to say to your store's paint dept" because we're quite good at giving flack here


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Great perspective Jay! Thanks!


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

Thanks Jay you gave us a different view


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

Jay23 said:


> *Truthfully, in my 8yrs being a rep I never met anyone who said "I've been dreaming of being a paint rep since I was a little boy". Most paint reps are young people trying to get a start in the working world. They are low paying jobs that don't offer a lot of great moments. It is a thankless job.*
> 
> 
> PaintersUnite said:
> ...


I totally understand and agree with you and your entire post.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

Jay23 said:


> As a guy who has worn both pairs of shoes at different times over my 25yrs. Going from painter to painter rep & then back to painter I understand this topic completely. Truthfully, in my 8yrs being a rep I never met anyone who said "I've been dreaming of being a paint rep since I was a little boy". Most paint reps are young people trying to get a start in the working world. They are low paying jobs that don't offer a lot of great moments. It is a thankless job. Your performance is based on what you sold TODAY not that huge job you got last week and your customers only want you to be the cheapest price and be there for him when HE needs. When I was selling I would walk on job sites hoping to meet a potential customer only to get what I call the "stink eye". You know that look..it's that "who is this ahole". I agree most painters don't want to see their rep until there is a problem...have you ever thought about yourself and how comfortable you would be going to see only customer who have problems. Not a fun time for you and it doesn't build much of a relationship.
> Why do new reps wanna come out to your job? Cause none of them have seen real painters work! They've heard about it in trainings and maybe seen video but all they know is what the company tells them. They usually have no field experience at all and if your gonna talk about anything but price on your next sales call you need to know something! You guys who have been painting in the field for years should be flattered instead of annoyed. You have the opportunity to help teach and share your work experience. Someone in this world thinks you are someone, and that what you have dedicated your life to has value and they wanna hear about it from you! Your on this thread because NOONE at tonight's dinner party or in the bar wants to hear you talk about fast set up time of your new semi-gloss. They don't care that you have to restrip a deck cuz you had a failure. Your rep does! A good rep can work with you just for the price of your paint. He can be a troubleshooter, generate leads and an overall ambassador for your company, giving your name out for jobs or just a "yes I know him, he has a great company" to a future customer. Agreed that not all reps are good and can do these things but thats life...I'm still looking for a trusted car mechanic lol


For about 3-4 years I was trying to get a job as a rep for Dulux here in Canada. I know the majority of the products they sell inside and out, am a ticketed painter and only got one bite, but they wanted me to move to the other side of the province IF I got the job. Instead they hire a Certa Pro estimator, or guys with little to no painting industry knowledge


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

journeymanPainter said:


> For about 3-4 years I was trying to get a job as a rep for Dulux here in Canada.* I know the majority of the products they sell inside and out, am a ticketed painter and only got one bite*, but they wanted me to move to the other side of the province IF I got the job. Instead they hire a Certa Pro estimator, or guys with little to no painting industry knowledge


It doesn't matter. What they need is *retail experience*. Someone who knows how to zone, stock shelves, do inventory, and work a cash register.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

PaintersUnite said:


> It doesn't matter. What they need is *retail experience*. Someone who knows how to zone, stock shelves, do inventory, and work a cash register.


Even with two store managers as a reference, and a referral from another rep? I think it was an age thing. I was between 25-28 at the times I applied for the jobs.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

PaintersUnite said:


> It doesn't matter. What they need is *retail experience*. Someone who knows how to zone, stock shelves, do inventory, and work a cash register.


yup, that's all they need.


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## CRS (Apr 13, 2013)

*Amen*

Honesty is hard to find with sales reps. There are a few left, old school.... good luck finding them. I think the big boys need a spankin'. Go for the smaller companies who know how to service customers and not "buy" market share and take paint business for granted. Do I need to mention names?


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

journeymanPainter said:


> For about 3-4 years I was trying to get a job as a rep for Dulux here in Canada. I know the majority of the products they sell inside and out, am a ticketed painter and only got one bite, but they wanted me to move to the other side of the province IF I got the job. Instead they hire a Certa Pro estimator, or guys with little to no painting industry knowledge


Maybe it was because you had no cash register or shelf stocking experience!


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