# Website Design / Q and A



## [email protected]

As some of you know, I am working on my own website: http://www.agapepaintinginc.com/

Please feel free to critique and/or make suggestions that would allow easier flow with wording or linkage.

My question will be primarily to the HTML croud / web designing type of person concerning the issue I have at the moment:

When you go to my website and minimize your browser, the wording to the right conflicts with the picture to the left. How do I fix that? I suspect it may be some HTML I am not aware of. Any help would be good. I am using Google Site as my editor.


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## ewingpainting.net

Really


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## RCP

Looks great to me! I am using Safari and no problem. I really like the slideshows!


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## ewingpainting.net

I think it looks great!


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## [email protected]

LOL.... I like the nice comments... BUT! your not helping!!!







:laughing:


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## ewingpainting.net

RCP said:


> I really like the slideshows!


There was a slide show? Didn't see it on mine, I am useing firefox. May b u need to down load all the browsers and check it Jason. 
I don't use things that move slide bounce. Because some computers are slow to load them and it will hold up your whole page. My rep looked up my web site took him 5 min for it to load. So I asked myself, self would you wait for that? So I took it off. Just a thought.


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## deach

Jason are you doing that in iWeb or what?


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## RCP

well maybe not "slideshow"
I like the way the pics move and if you want to explore more, you can click to Picasa.


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## ewingpainting.net

RCP said:


> I like the way the pics move and if you want to explore more, you can click to Picasa.


I like the way it looks to, but I was thinking about that sell I may have lost because the other guys site came up quicker than mine and got tired of waiting. Old people get confused easy, young peps want it now, business don't have time. The only ones that will more likly to wait it out are ur repeats, famliy, and kiss a** reps. And I got their repeats business, doing business with them, or don't want their business.


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## deach

Honestly I'm seeing that here on both firefox and safari on my apple laptop with resolution of 1024x768. I'm trying to remember in iWeb what we had to do to set that right some time ago. Let me do some thinking here....Been years since I set my iWeb site up...I'm not sure that wasn't one of the reasons we changed.......I'll see what can find out from my apple guru...


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## [email protected]

[email protected] said:


> When you go to my website and minimize your browser, the wording to the right conflicts with the picture to the left. How do I fix that? I suspect it may be some HTML I am not aware of. Any help would be good. I am using Google Site as my editor.



This only happens in FireFox and Safari.

This is not an issue with IE.


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## [email protected]

deach said:


> Jason are you doing that in iWeb or what?


Google Site.

I am unfamiliar with anything else...


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## [email protected]

ewingpainting.net said:


> I like the way it looks to, but I was thinking about that sell I may have lost because the other guys site came up quicker than mine and got tired of waiting. Old people get confused easy, young peps want it now, business don't have time. The only ones that will more likly to wait it out are ur repeats, famliy, and kiss a** reps. And I got their repeats business, doing business with them, or don't want their business.



You make some good points here.

In the Portland area, MOST folks have rather fast internet connections. I'm not too worried about this for the most part. As an alternative to the video's presentations for each category, I plan to add pictures with hopes of learning to link them to my picasa gallery until I learn how to get them all onto my website.


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## ewingpainting.net

Another quick point about moveing items on your web. Is you may have fast internet but if their computer suxs fast internet or not, it will be slow. If you look at big box store notice very few have moveing items. 
And how many peps do you know that have computers and don't even know what a cookie is? And how mant do you know that don't know you have to clean it up and wonder why every thing is moveing slow?
Ok I'm done, just wanted u to think of these points. I don't think its a big deal just something to think of.


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## [email protected]

Updated the Exterior page: http://www.agapepaintinginc.com/exterior-painting

Let me know what you think. Seriously, Pro's & Con's. Receiving Critique is critical and well accepted with me. I'm hard to offend...


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## deach

Not that my opinion matters but "now you're getting somewhere"


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## TooledUp

Hi Jason.

I ran the index page through the w3c validator and it's showing quite a few errors. Your best bet for getting cross-browser compatibility is to get the code cleaned up - It also goes a long way with your search engine ratings too. I also noticed there's a lot of 'white space' in the code - Something like nearly 800 lines I think and probably more than half of that is just blank space. Whilst it isn't a problem for a viewer, it does make it hard to read the code and look for errors and to find content to alter/fix.

For the picture problem use fixed widths for the tables that the content is in :thumbsup:

What are you using to build the site with?


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## deach

Man I just checked the site I'm working on and it has a few there too (quite a few) .....


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## [email protected]

TooledUp said:


> Hi Jason.
> 
> I ran the index page through the w3c validator and it's showing quite a few errors. Your best bet for getting cross-browser compatibility is to get the code cleaned up - It also goes a long way with your search engine ratings too. I also noticed there's a lot of 'white space' in the code - Something like nearly 800 lines I think and probably more than half of that is just blank space. Whilst it isn't a problem for a viewer, it does make it hard to read the code and look for errors and to find content to alter/fix.
> 
> For the picture problem use fixed widths for the tables that the content is in :thumbsup:
> 
> What are you using to build the site with?


Holy crap... what language are you speaking! LOL..... I appreciate the input, I have never done this stuff before so some of your jargon is foreign.  

I'm using Google Site to edit and create. I purchased the site through google. (Godaddy). 

Fixed widths?? ok... I'm gunna have to research the know how.... :blink:


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## JNLP

[email protected] said:


> This only happens in FireFox and Safari.
> 
> This is not an issue with IE.


I'm in IE and see it too.


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## [email protected]

JNLP said:


> I'm in IE and see it too.



wow... My head is spinning!!! ughh...


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## TooledUp

[email protected] said:


> Holy crap... what language are you speaking! LOL..... I appreciate the input, I have never done this stuff before so some of your jargon is foreign.
> 
> I'm using Google Site to edit and create. I purchased the site through google. (Godaddy).
> 
> Fixed widths?? ok... I'm gunna have to research the know how.... :blink:


Lol. Html is a big learning curve. There's loads of resources out there to learn from. It's well worth spending some time researching if you're building and/or maintaining your own site.

I've found that the online site builders don't give you very clean code. Having said that, there's a lot of stand alone editors that don't either.

If you can afford it then Dreamweaver is probably the best one that you can get.

You'll see at the top of your page source that it gives you the 'doctype'. That tells the browser how to read the page. When you're building a page with whatever editor, you can very easily put in some code that doesn't belong to that doctype and it can cause errors.

With a program like Dreamweaver, you can 'validate' a page you've built before you save and publish it.

Don't be too suprised about the amount of errors though - Just have a look around at some of the so-called 'professionally built' sites and run them through that validator and see the amount of errors they throw up!

If any of you have paid somebody to build a site and you get validation errors then go back to them and ask them to correct it. A true webmaster will give you clean code. You can also validate your style sheets on that site if your site uses one :thumbsup:


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## [email protected]

Thanks Tool! I certainly have my plate full with all these things in consideration. :blink::yes:


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## MAK-Deco

JNLP said:


> I'm in IE and see it too.


It runs fine for me in firefox.. all tho I am running 1680 x 1050 resolution...


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## [email protected]

MAK-Deco said:


> It runs fine for me in firefox.. all tho I am running 1680 x 1050 resolution...


Yeah... it's not too much an issue in bigger resolutions. It's when the browser is minimized or the screen reso is too small that it all bunches together... I'm still working on it. Actually.. no I'm not... Maybe in a couple days while I get my brain defragged....


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## ewingpainting.net

[email protected] said:


> Thanks Tool! I certainly have my plate full with all these things in consideration. :blink::yes:


When you see how much Dreamweaver cost you'll have no problem with your little errors. I have the same issues that need to be addressed


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## daArch

Knowing HTML really does help, as Tooled says. I learned the basics 'bout ten years ago. I agree with much he says. 

Many of WSIWYG editors are crap and fill the page with clutter. Knowing the basics really allows you to do what you want. I'm using an old program called Homesite 2.5. I think it was bought by Macromedia and became bloatware. 

As for Dreamweaver. I hate everything Adobe. They are not intuitive and instructions are complicated. But that's between Adobe and me. YMMD

I ran across a real basic and FREE HTML editor a few years back. HTML-Kit. Very simple. But to use it, you should know html. 

here's a real simplified list of code and simple explanations:
http://www.htmlcodetutorial.com/quicklist.html

And here's the rub. We all want nice custom web sites. If you use a WYSIWYG editor, they fill the page full of crap. If you go on line and use a template, it looks like every other cookie cutter site. And who has time to learn HTML ? And are you going to be using it enough to keep it in your brain? And what about style sheets or php or javascript or ...... Well, you get the point. Going to a web designer will cost some serious sheckles. 

Choices choices choices. 

OH, my site is VERY custom. The home page is actually an bunch of images in cells of tables. The window elements (side rails, stool, apron, header, etc) were all "drawn" from scratch. All the "text" in the two window frames are actually images. That way they always stay the same no matter which browser or monitor is being used. As I was building it, I was constantly checking it on three different monitors and five browsers. It only took about 40 hours to create the images and put them all together so they looked right in all browsers. 

Sometimes we can know too much.


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## RCP

Are we not the ones who advocate hiring a pro!? Just like a HO doing it themselves, ya get what you pay for. I enjoy learning and creating the site, but I do wonder if I hired a pro how much of a difference it would be?
I did get 3 calls from site this week!


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## Wolfgang

You designed and built your own website Bill? All I can say is wow! Dammit you've really impressed me now...any other talents up those paper hanger sleeves of yours?


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## daArch

RCP said:


> Are we not the ones who advocate hiring a pro!? Just like a HO doing it themselves, ya get what you pay for. I enjoy learning and creating the site, but I do wonder if I hired a pro how much of a difference it would be?
> I did get 3 calls from site this week!


Chris,

For a large site, I would recommend a pro to keep it all in order and organised. But we all have just a few pages and quite simple requirements. A well versed hobbiest can do just as well, if not better than a "seasoned" pro. 

Also, web design is still in it's infancy, not a mature profession like painting/paperhanging. Hell, I think I may have beed designing websites for longer than some pros have been using the big potty 



Wolfgang said:


> You designed and built your own website Bill? All I can say is wow! Dammit you've really impressed me now...any other talents up those paper hanger sleeves of yours?


well Wolf, you done it, I'm speechless :thumbsup:


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## [email protected]

Outside of all the quirks of SEO modifications and other website errors etc. I have finished the Interior page: http://www.agapepaintinginc.com/interior-painting


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## ewingpainting.net

[email protected] said:


> Outside of all the quirks of SEO modifications and other website errors etc. I have finished the Interior page: http://www.agapepaintinginc.com/interior-painting


It Great! Whites or not
I love to see a good quality paint job which your pics display.


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## [email protected]

ewingpainting.net said:


> It Great! Whites or not
> I love to see a good quality paint job which your pics display.


haha! Like you and the rest of us, we got to do what we can to keep food on the table.


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## TooledUp

RCP said:


> Are we not the ones who advocate hiring a pro!? Just like a HO doing it themselves, ya get what you pay for. I enjoy learning and creating the site, but I do wonder if I hired a pro how much of a difference it would be?
> I did get 3 calls from site this week!


There is a difference Chris. 

It's like you say, H/O Vs Pro. Compare it that way and it's like the next door neighbor admiring the room that the H/O has painted themselves. Then pro comes along and can see all of the mistakes.

If you want a quick fix for any of your pages use this HTML tidy to clean up and generate the fixed code for you. I will WARN you though, keep a back up of your old files before you overwrite them with the newly generated code. You can never guarantee that the generated code won't 'break' your pages. Having said that, the html tidy project has been on the go a long while now and works pretty well by all accounts :thumbsup:

Try learning though, compare the generated code to your old code and see where the mistakes were. It's like learning anything new - It looks japanese at first but it all starts to make sense after a while :thumbsup:

Once you get the 'all clear' from the W3C validator, you can use the little W3C images on your site to show your customers you care about accessibility - The clean code allows disabled people access to your site too so there's another selling/marketing tool added


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## RCP

I used that one and another you posted and both came up no errors. But, I am not using html, and know nothing about it! I am using Iweb on a mac and it is basically drag and drop. I did meet with a web developer the other day to talk about my site and possibly creating a new one for me. It really made me realize how little I know!
I like doing it and it works for me for now. I have really enjoyed and learned from the comments here! :thumbsup:


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## deach

The first important issue is to have a web site. My first site in iWeb created a lot of business and didn't look near as good as RCP's iWeb site does. The one now isn't fancy but I've found from questioning the clients that they care more about the pictures (before and afters they love). Also some do actually take the time to "read" the information on there. 

It's important to have all aspects of your work on there, with photos of each aspect or, they might not think you do it. I"m wondering about the page errors, and how much differernce that actualy makes in rankings. If anyone can direct me to definitive information on that, I'd appreciate it. I can honestly say this will be my last year for "book" advertising. *paying for it*......I understand about old people, this, that, and the other but, just don't feel it's brought me anything on my money. 

Jason your new site is awesome. I've talked to several web designers and with what they wanted I don't believe it would be a good ROI at least in my case. Come up in the rankings, use google things that are free, blog if you can, you'll get your name out there. Good luck!


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## TooledUp

deach said:


> I"m wondering about the page errors, and how much differernce that actualy makes in rankings. If anyone can direct me to definitive information on that, I'd appreciate it.


Here ya go mate.

Just run your pages through the html tidy link I put in the last post and then re-validate them - At the risk of repeating myself, make sure you back up the originals before you overwrite them :thumbsup:


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## deach

Hey thanks. I'm gonna go and look at that here in a bit.


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## MAK-Deco

deach said:


> I've talked to several web designers and with what they wanted I don't believe it would be a good ROI at least in my case. Come up in the rankings, use google things that are free, blog if you can, you'll get your name out there. Good luck!


remember that your site is not just for gaining new work but for a reference for current clients as well. so having a good site either by your self or pro design it about having it functional for a variety of purposes..


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## deach

Yep and with few exceptions people like seeing their places on there at least for a while. My new site will have features the old one doesn't. I agree the current ones look there too.


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## MAK-Deco

deach said:


> Yep and with few exceptions people like seeing their places on there at least for a while. My new site will have features the old one doesn't. I agree the current ones look there too.


During the selling process if you are dealing with a prospective client who has not seen your site, you can refer them there for galleries of pictures, references and more general info on your complete line of services.

That's why a nice professional looking site is ideal. Not something that was just "thrown together"

( I am not implying anyone's site is just thrown together as I have not seen most peoples sites on hear)


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## [email protected]

Update!

I had my website done by a professional. It goes live on Friday. 

Stay tuned! :thumbsup:


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## onthecoast

My painting brothers, use www.weebly.com

It is simple, has a good amount of templates and tons of add ons like email forms and media stuff. If you pay 26 bucks or so, you can even get the ad on the bottom of the page removed. Though it's not abig deal, it only says "get a free website from weebly" or something like that.

Try it out I know you want to


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## onthecoast

For all your freeware software needs. Includes Ratings/

http://www.techsupportalert.com/best_46_free_utilities.htm


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## [email protected]

[email protected] said:


> Update!
> 
> I had my website done by a professional. It goes live on Friday.
> 
> Stay tuned! :thumbsup:


I have decided to host with Godaddy and the transfer will take a few days. I'm hoping to see the site go live next week. 

Really.... It is 100% different than what you seen me do to it.... It's a sharp looking site! 

Here is a sample of my Blog page: This is only an example from my web designer.... 










I'm changing the title and obviously there will be some good blogging experience posted. But any who.... I'll let ya know when it's all up and live.


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## 4ThGeneration

[email protected] said:


> I have decided to host with Godaddy and the transfer will take a few days. I'm hoping to see the site go live next week.
> 
> Really.... It is 100% different than what you seen me do to it.... It's a sharp looking site!
> 
> Here is a sample of my Blog page: This is only an example from my web designer....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm changing the title and obviously there will be some good blogging experience posted. But any who.... I'll let ya know when it's all up and live.



Who built your site?


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## [email protected]

4ThGeneration said:


> Who built your site?


L & M Marketing Solutions


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## 4ThGeneration

Do they offer SEO along with the site building?


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## MAK-Deco

Jason,

I am curious when you really get into blogging will you blog about jobs you are having issues with, like failing paint? water spots you have no idea about? or how to stain a deck correctly? I just wonder if it will be a tool to prop you up and not tell the whole truth.

I say this after just giving a reference to a new prospective client the reference was a job we had issue with some peeling paint and we went back to fix the problem. I thought why not tell someone " yeah we did not complete the job correctly and we went back and fix it"

we did end up getting the new job and she thought that they were honest enough to tell us they had a problem on a job and they fix it.


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## [email protected]

MAK,

Honestly, I have only messed up on one house in all my years of painting and that was the one with the cedar gables. And that was an innocent error. btw.... I'm finally done with that house. Just finished it last Sat... Whew!...

I would blog about the frosting spots. It's one of those phenomena that is unlikely to be determine for preparation of home before it's painted. Again, an innocent set back not error.

I hope you weren't implying that I have issues about how to stain a deck correctly. I have yet to incorrectly stain a deck. But to answer your question, inoccent issues are worth blogging about, it shows humility and a willingness to learn, there isn't a painter that is perfect in all their processes... Well... accept for NEPS (God) :jester:. 

As for blogging errogance and lazyness about bad prep work that caused bubbling or peeling etc...??? I doubt it... I have yet to prep a home in such manner. I'm on every job doing the work, I'm not leaving the work to "employees" where a substantial amount of trust has to be put into their hands for the business owner to keep a good reputation. Can I confidently say that it wasn't YOU (MAK) that caused the failure but perhaps an employee? Yes, or at least I woud hope. I'm not diss-n employees, my point is; those doing the work on a home, are they as addament about quality as You or I (business owners)? If so, then failure is VERY limited. At this moment, I don't have a project that simply failed due to my lack of quality work. And No, I wouldn't blog about it if I did. If a HO asks, I won't lie, but it's nothing I am going to put out on my plate (public viewing) for others to look at. 

------------------

4ThGeneration,

From what I understand, they do SEO... but to what degree... I do not know. My site is so new that it's not really worth the time to set up an SEO plan at this time so I didn't inquire about it much. ALL I can do is keep the site updated and keep the blog page rolling.

SEO is mentioned on their "About Us" page: http://lmmarketingsolutions.com/file/Welcome.html About Us


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## MAK-Deco

Jason,

In our instance it was a job that had some peeling on it and there were spot s that we either did not prep correctly or happen afterwards, It was not that much for me to say it was the previous coating that was failing... So I fix it with the notion I can say I stood behind my work as it was a area we target a lot and wish to continue to work in.

Was it one of my guys? maybe but I am in the bucket so I was on that job 100% of the time so it might as well be me then.


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## [email protected]

MAK-Deco said:


> Jason,
> 
> In our instance it was a job that had some peeling on it and there were spot s that we either did not prep correctly or happen afterwards, It was not that much for me to say it was the previous coating that was failing... So I fix it with the notion I can say I stood behind my work as it was a area we target a lot and wish to continue to work in.
> 
> Was it one of my guys? maybe but I am in the bucket so I was on that job 100% of the time so it might as well be me then.



That's an understandable situation. I would do the same and have. :thumbsup: The Gables I just redid, SW says it's the surface/siding failure, the HO says it's product failure.... I said... Screw you guys, it's my failure and I'll fix it. I had it professionally stripped by a local company and restained it with a solid stain. I have the maintenance staining in a couple years. The HO asked for some cards and is VERY please with how things turned out. With some hope I will do his neighbors house of whom is looking for a painter. 

I totally agree with you in standing behind our work. That doesn't mean I need to blog about it.  In the case of the Gables, I just might blog about it, because it shows that we stand behind our warranty. Not many painters that I am aware of would have done what I did. but anyways..... Thanks for the questions.


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## [email protected]

It's up:

http://www.agapepaintinginc.com/


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## tsunamicontract

> Nothing preserves the value *or* your home like a new finish.


Nice looking, professional site Jason :thumbsup:


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## tsunamicontract

if you would like more suggestions let me know


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## [email protected]

Thanks man.. 

there's bound to be a few things to button up..  I'm still working on the Blog idea...


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## deach

Now there's something you don't see every day a professional designer using iWeb. Looks good!!


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## RCP

Jason, the site looks good! Some of the text needs to be proofed. 
"Me make your deck look brand new".
I am surprised and pleased to see the use of Iweb. I will be interested to see how they do your SEO. Keep us posted!


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## RCP

You all still working on your sites? I found this article.
It talks about the framework of a site.


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## George Z

RCP said:


> You all still working on your sites? I found this article.
> It talks about the framework of a site.


Here is the 60 page white paper on that same subject and Persuation Architecture.


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## [email protected]

RCP said:


> You all still working on your sites? I found this article.
> It talks about the framework of a site.



Yup!

I have since found a different Web Designer. This guy is teaching me to do the web design myself. The last guy really didn't give me the product I wanted nor was he interested in teaching me anything... I like this newer look:

http://www.agapepaintinginc.com/

It's a spin off of my .net site. Soon I'll be forwarding the .net site to the .com.

I'm still working on this website. I'm learning how to implement my pictures and will soon have some kind of gallery available.


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## dubinpainting

Looks good maybe you should think about adding a portfolio page. I like to see pics!


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## [email protected]

dubinpainting said:


> Looks good maybe you should think about adding a portfolio page. I like to see pics!


I just finished the primary portfolios. I'll add some to the "additional services" later.

Thanks!

J

Suggestions are welcome if anyone can see something that would help bring life to this site. :thumbsup:


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## RCP

Looks good, I like the way you have the pictures set up. I had to search a bit for the contact form, you may want to make that a tab or a button on every page.


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## RCP

So what happened with the Iweb guy? Just curious because i use Iweb.


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## [email protected]

RCP said:


> So what happened with the Iweb guy? Just curious because i use Iweb.



Iweb? did I use that? if so, I don't remember.... 

I did update most of the pages to include a contact button sortof thingy... I'm not all geeky on website design but what I did in reference to your suggestion seems to work... I hope... haha.


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## [email protected]

Check out my new digs... http://www.agapepaintinginc.com/

There are still a few things to work around, but for the most part, It's FRESH! :thumbup:

I'm having the header redone to remove the lettering from Mount Hood, jut gunna resize it or move the picture down. Also gunna remove the CCB# since it is at the footer already.


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## VanDamme

[email protected] said:


> Check out my new digs... http://www.agapepaintinginc.com/
> 
> There are still a few things to work around, but for the most part, It's FRESH! :thumbup:
> 
> I'm having the header redone to remove the lettering from Mount Hood, jut gunna resize it or move the picture down. Also gunna remove the CCB# since it is at the footer already.


Your site looks awesome! Good job! :thumbup:


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## Seattlepainting

Hi Jason,

I also embed videos on my landing page. I suggest you include additional copy in the body of your video description; maybe describe the houses in the video or the process etc. You have included your URL but more content (if it is useful or descriptive) will improve indexing...Universal Search is around the corner and video will change the game. Here is a new video I have up:


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