# PPG Break-Through! Update



## Mr Smith

I was wondering what the general consensus is for PPG Breakthrough! these days?

I remember a few years ago Repaint Florida was using this product heavily but in the 250 g/l high VOC version. With the new VOC laws, is that 250 version still even manufactured? You can only find the low VOC version in Canada.

I've used it on doors with good success but laid it flat while spraying. The finish doesn't seem tough enough for cabinets, and most of my clients want a semi-gloss finish which isn't available here in BT. None of my reps recommend it for cabs. Few cabinet shops use it for cabinets. I'm reading less and less about it in this forum for cabinet use. I don't see Dean using it and he only looks for the best finishes.

Also, have any of you read the safety data sheet on BT? There are TONS of cancer-causing chit in that formula. Shocking, to say the least. I do know that titanium dioxide pigment is cancer causing but BT has a lot more 'poison' in that concoction.


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## sayn3ver

I use it for trim. Especially exterior doors or entrance ways that need to be painted and closed the same day. No blocking. Sands great if you need to sand. Dries pretty fast. 

I don't think the satin is tough enough for cabinets. It was rumored that breakthrough tends to fail from moisture over time. I forget who on here mentioned that they had it fail on a bathroom vanity near the door handle. Repeated wetting may have weakened it?

The TDS also states not to use it for the body of exterior work, just for trim. I guess exterior doors may be pushing it? Lol 

As for the chemicals, a respirator deals with that. Most waterborne paints are going to have a cocktail of things that probably aren't too great for us.

Most of your non rinse household cleaners have a hefty amount of butyl cellosolve in them (i believe fantastik, 409, spray nine, simple green, etc). 

The only safe paint id imagine is a Lyme wash or maybe traditionally milk paint? Lyme can be dangerous too. 

Not sure what your point was with the titanium dioxide? I thought that was in most paints. I'm not a chemist however.


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## PACman

Titanium Dioxide is listed as a potential carcinogen, at least by the state of California. It is extensively used in cosmetics and disposable diapers. But may cause cancer. And people put it on a babies butt. Weird huh? On their faces too.

I remember a paint chemist that i worked with from time to time told me that the amount of TiO2 needed to give a lab rat cancer was equivalent to a human eating 5 pounds a day for a month. So cut back to 4 pounds a day and you'll be fine.


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## Center_line_Painting

In NJ we only have the low VOC version. 
The coverage is terrible when brush and rolling it. I've made it a policy to always use a primer with the product, unless a same color scenario with no wear. So, as a rule, 3 coats on a quote. 

Besides that, no complaints thus far from clients I have done cabinets for. I am, however, looking for other stuff to work with on cabinets, just for comparison. Advance yellows and isn't as durable, and KM+ is nearly impossible to get in southern NJ. 

Regarding the health bit, I'm leaning away from painting everyday as time goes by. Learning other ways to generate funds. This life is short, I avoid making it shorter. Maybe in a few decades the coatings industry will help improve the lives of it's service members. Sad how long these things take.


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## PACman

Center_line_Painting said:


> In NJ we only have the low VOC version.
> The coverage is terrible when brush and rolling it. I've made it a policy to always use a primer with the product, unless a same color scenario with no wear. So, as a rule, 3 coats on a quote.
> 
> Besides that, no complaints thus far from clients I have done cabinets for. I am, however, looking for other stuff to work with on cabinets, just for comparison. Advance yellows and isn't as durable, and KM+ is nearly impossible to get in southern NJ.
> 
> Regarding the health bit, I'm leaning away from painting everyday as time goes by. Learning other ways to generate funds. This life is short, I avoid making it shorter. Maybe in a few decades the coatings industry will help improve the lives of it's service members. Sad how long these things take.


Do you have any California Paint dealers in Southern NJ? If so you owe it to yourself to try their Ultraplate on trim and cabinets.


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## Rbriggs82

PACman said:


> Do you have any California Paint dealers in Southern NJ? If so you owe it to yourself to try their Ultraplate on trim and cabinets.


Do you think Ultraplate can hold up long term on cabinets. And does it stick like glue to anything like breakthrough does? 

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## PACman

Rbriggs82 said:


> Do you think Ultraplate can hold up long term on cabinets. And does it stick like glue to anything like breakthrough does?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


Ultraplate is harder than most epoxies and will stick to glossy surfaces better than any "bonding" primer on the market. The biggest drawback is it is limited to pastel colors. I have had customers put it on high gloss poly without sanding it or using a primer and they were amazed at how well it stuck and how durable it was. Also, it will cure to almost 90% of it's maximum hardness and adhesion in less than 8 hours. I have tested it straight on formica and glazed ceramic tile against every bonding primer i have access to and it adheres better than all of them except the California Gripcoat primer which is made of the exact same resin. It will also self level much better than the breakthrough will, believe it or not! It is without a doubt the best self leveling product i have ever seen aside from alkyds.


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## Rbriggs82

PACman said:


> Ultraplate is harder than most epoxies and will stick to glossy surfaces better than any "bonding" primer on the market. The biggest drawback is it is limited to pastel colors. I have had customers put it on high gloss poly without sanding it or using a primer and they were amazed at how well it stuck and how durable it was. Also, it will cure to almost 90% of it's maximum hardness and adhesion in less than 8 hours. I have tested it straight on formica and glazed ceramic tile against every bonding primer i have access to and it adheres better than all of them except the California Gripcoat primer which is made of the exact same resin. It will also self level much better than the breakthrough will, believe it or not! It is without a doubt the best self leveling product i have ever seen aside from alkyds.


I really wish I had access to it. I'm guessing it also uses a different tint system like GenX too. 

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## Jmayspaint

Rbriggs82 said:


> I really wish I had access to it. I'm guessing it also uses a different tint system like GenX too.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk




Yeah me too. Think last time I looked for a California dealer the closest one was in Knoxville, three hours away. 

I think they use Trillion colorants, developed in Europe by some other company and licensed to them IIRC. 


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## Rbriggs82

Hey Pac how much are we looking a gallon and do you ship? Also how does it cover? One of the things I hate most about breakthrough is that it covers like garbage. 

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## Center_line_Painting

I'm not trying to hijack this breakthrough thread. It's a cool versatile product, and if in a higher VOC state, I'm sure people are happy. When I used high VOC in PA on a (low traffic) warehouse floor, I was impressed. 
@PACman I may be interested in a shipped product as well. 
No Cali dealers reasonably close here, nor where I'm about to be living in NC. I may hit up an instate dealer about shipping. Since I only have a hvlp sprayer, what's the viscosity like?
A main selling point on Breakthrough is it's so thin+ the obvious other benefits.


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## cocomonkeynuts

PACman said:


> Ultraplate is harder than most epoxies and will stick to glossy surfaces better than any "bonding" primer on the market. The biggest drawback is it is limited to pastel colors. I have had customers put it on high gloss poly without sanding it or using a primer and they were amazed at how well it stuck and how durable it was. Also, it will cure to almost 90% of it's maximum hardness and adhesion in less than 8 hours. I have tested it straight on formica and glazed ceramic tile against every bonding primer i have access to and it adheres better than all of them except the California Gripcoat primer which is made of the exact same resin. It will also self level much better than the breakthrough will, believe it or not! It is without a doubt the best self leveling product i have ever seen aside from alkyds.


Does it have the same issue with metal object marring that CC has?


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## sayn3ver

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Does it have the same issue with metal object marring that CC has?


Yea or a finger nail? I like cabinet coat but it's not mar resistant at all. 

Pac. I have a small hardware store about 35min away where I sourced from of their asap primer you recommend. Is ultraplate worth the trouble of trying out? If it's like cabinet coat I'll pass.


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## finishesbykevyn

How can you tell whether it's old BT or new VOC formula? I just got my PPG rep to comp me a gal. I brushed it, sprayed it through my airless and new hvlp set up with amazing results..
I was thinking of spraying a metal garage and front door with it.. thoughts? I also doubt I can get the ultra plate in Eastern Canada. So looking for some alternative superior products.. My biggest concern for exterior use is the above 10 degrees thing..


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## Jmayspaint

finishesbykevyn said:


> How can you tell whether it's old BT or new VOC formula? I just got my PPG rep to comp me a gal. I brushed it, sprayed it through my airless and new hvlp set up with amazing results..
> 
> I was thinking of spraying a metal garage and front door with it.. thoughts? I also doubt I can get the ultra plate in Eastern Canada. So looking for some alternative superior products.. My biggest concern for exterior use is the above 10 degrees thing..




The original (250 VOC) is the V-50 series. The low (50) VOC version is the V-56 series. Should be in small print somewhere on the label. 

I haven’t used the V-56, but I think either would be good for metal doors. 


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## finishesbykevyn

Jmayspaint said:


> finishesbykevyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> How can you tell whether it's old BT or new VOC formula? I just got my PPG rep to comp me a gal. I brushed it, sprayed it through my airless and new hvlp set up with amazing results..
> 
> I was thinking of spraying a metal garage and front door with it.. thoughts? I also doubt I can get the ultra plate in Eastern Canada. So looking for some alternative superior products.. My biggest concern for exterior use is the above 10 degrees thing..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The original (250 VOC) is the V-50 series. The low (50) VOC version is the V-56 series. Should be in small print somewhere on the label.
> 
> I haven’t used the V-56, but I think either would be good for metal doors.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


Mine says V51.. Been spraying great unthinned with my airless and pretty good with my HVLP but thinned about 5%ish...


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## Jmayspaint

Looks like the V-51 is also a low (50) VOC version. Maybe a little different formulation to meet Canada regulations. 

https://www.dulux.ca/ppg/dulux/media/tds/v51-410c.pdf?ext=.pdf


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## bluegrassdan

will be on my next kitchen cupboard job. My only alternative locally is Advance and and recently saw a set done less than a year ago that had yellowed. I take it I should sand and oil prime over clear coated wood.


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## finishesbykevyn

bluegrassdan said:


> will be on my next kitchen cupboard job. My only alternative locally is Advance and and recently saw a set done less than a year ago that had yellowed. I take it I should sand and oil prime over clear coated wood.[/QUOTE
> I would read through the other multiple threads on that subject..as you are opening a can of worms..but yes, proper prep work is mandatory.


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## AnthonyFalzon

I'm a tiler in london and I have tested it many times on different porcelain and ceramic tiles and it works better compared to all other options i've tried.


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## propainterJ

My paint rep sent me a copy of an email from PPG saying Breakthrough doesnt hold up well to skin oils,not recomended for Cabinets,I hadnt been using it for a while even then,which was about 20 months ago?
Ive been using DE "Aristoshield" SG,which takes forever to dry,The Satin,which Ive used a couple times, dries a lot faster.I use Bins shellac as a Primer/Bonder to old Lacquered Cabs,then the Aristo,or Ive also used Kellyh's Moore's New Dura Poxy,which seemed fine,dried a little quicker


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## Rbriggs82

propainterJ said:


> My paint rep sent me a copy of an email from PPG saying Breakthrough doesnt hold up well to skin oils,not recomended for Cabinets,I hadnt been using it for a while even then,which was about 20 months ago?
> Ive been using DE "Aristoshield" SG,which takes forever to dry,The Satin,which Ive used a couple times, dries a lot faster.I use Bins shellac as a Primer/Bonder to old Lacquered Cabs,then the Aristo,or Ive also used Kellyh's Moore's New Dura Poxy,which seemed fine,dried a little quicker


Which version of Breakthrough was your rep referring to? In the pds of the lower voc it does not list cabinets however, cabinets are listed on on the 250voc version.

I've had the higher voc version in black satin on my handrails for two years now and it's not showing any signs of wear due to hand oils. 

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## Repaint Florida

PPG still recommends breakthrough as long as it's V50-410 & V70-610 series
here's a few pic's of a roll up banner stand my PPG rep gave me for our home & garden show in Jan
This was straight from PPG and as you can see breakthrough is for cabinets
and they have been great to work with, i'm getting call from homeowners whose kitchen i painted 2-3 years ago tell me they still look great & recommending me to family & friends


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## propainterJ

Here in California you can only get the V-51


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## ProjectPaint

breakthrough is ok, not really worth the effort/price, as with most paints
now, the voc is in the tinting..no so much the paints..and yes, they
all have titanium dioxides. In painting cabinetry for 15years in 1000 kitchens, I really don't want the hardest product, it will become brittle/chip, etc.. I want a flexible 100% acrylic like advance/aura/emerald urethane/pro classic/solo or a catalyzed lacquer.


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## stoyania

ProjectPaint said:


> breakthrough is ok, not really worth the effort/price, as with most paints
> now, the voc is in the tinting..no so much the paints..and yes, they
> all have titanium dioxides. In painting cabinetry for 15years in 1000 kitchens, I really don't want the hardest product, it will become brittle/chip, etc.. I want a flexible 100% acrylic like advance/aura/emerald urethane/pro classic/solo or a catalyzed lacquer.


 ----
what about Cali Paint Ultraplate or BM Scuff-X? which one would endure the most time for wood applications exposed to sun?


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## PPD

I don’t use it much for the same reason...we can’t get anything but the low-VOC option & even that is limited. The shop I used to get it from doesn’t order it anymore.


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## finishesbykevyn

PPD said:


> I don’t use it much for the same reason...we can’t get anything but the low-VOC option & even that is limited. The shop I used to get it from doesn’t order it anymore.


Same here.. What's even worse is that the staff does't know the difference.


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## ProjectPaint

Why would anybody use a product that isn't readily available, everywhere?
I've painted a thousand kitchens, and used everything under the sun, it was good, but not worth going back for..Many other competitive products, I think it was just good marketing.."strong as baked enamel" blah blah, meh..


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## joelbrodd

propainterJ said:


> My paint rep sent me a copy of an email from PPG saying Breakthrough doesnt hold up well to skin oils,not recomended for Cabinets,I hadnt been using it for a while even then,which was about 20 months ago? Ive been using DE "Aristoshield" SG,which takes forever to dry,The Satin,which Ive used a couple times, dries a lot faster.I use Bins shellac as a Primer/Bonder to old Lacquered Cabs,then the Aristo,or Ive also used Kellyh's Moore's New Dura Poxy,which seemed fine,dried a little quicker


 Could you please forward a copy of the PPG email to me at [email protected]. Thanks


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## Rbriggs82

joelbrodd said:


> Could you please forward a copy of the PPG email to me at [email protected]. Thanks


My guess it's in reference to the low VOC v51 version. Up above I stated that I have it on my handrails, I'm now going on four and a half years with no visable wear or hand oil break down.


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