# Paint Quote: Interior



## Bella612 (Feb 15, 2018)

*Does Paint Doors Quote Mean Both Sides of Door?*

HI, I'm new to painttalk, 

I'm a designer and have a current interior paint job for all interior rooms except for closets (clothing, linen etc.) and closet style pantry. The job quote included *all doors and trim, (two coats) *kitchen and master bath cabinets as well as ceilings and walls. (quote of almost $16K; approx. 8-9 days of work, home is about 3,200 sq. ft.)

Yesterday I noticed the door from the master bedroom that opens into the master closet was only painted on one side, as well a hallway door that opens into the master closet. Same with linen closet, etc. Doors are painted on one side only. It looks terrible since we've gone from a beige to a white for trim and doors.

When I mentioned it to the paint contractor, he told me that the quote for all the interior doors did not mean both sides of the doors of a "room" they were not painting. I've never had a paint contractor who gave me a quote to paint all interior doors, not paint the doors. Both sides. He told me he would have to charge me more to paint the other side of any doors that open to any closet.

So now I have to pay him more, or hire someone else (more likely) to go in and paint the other half of 8 doors? 

I've already helped him cut his costs by using Sherwin Williams (the quote was for Benjamin Moore). 

Have I just been lucky in the past to get both sides of the interior doors painted with a quote to paint all interior doors? :surprise:

Thanks in advance for input on this.

Bella


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## Roamer (Jul 5, 2010)

Yes, you've been lucky in the past. Our proposals, unless otherwise stated, only include the side of the door facing into the room or hall that we are painting. This would also include any closet door, especially, if we are not painting the interior of the closet.

However, often times at the time of the bid walk-through I will mention that it might look better if we paint the 'other' side of closet doors or doors that remain open most of the time.

I'm sure in future you will make it clear to your contractor that you want both sides of every door painted.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

I usually ask if they want the other side of the closet door done, if it swings outward, especially if its a drastic color change. I do believe he should have made it clear that he was only doing the front side though.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I think there is some responsibility on the part of a painting contractor to point things out to the layman, like the consequences a single sided painted door can have on the overall results of an expensive paint job. It's lazy.

I would bid this painter farewell for good for his uncooperative behavior. The price he got for the overall job was likely well within the range to offer to paint the other side of the doors. Even if it was just one coat.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Pretty much same as has been mentioned. I just make it clear which sides will be done and which won’t (same with the door frames). Customer can always request to have more done if they wish.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

RH said:


> Pretty much same as has been mentioned. I just make it clear which sides will be done and which won’t (same with the door frames). Customer can always request to have more done if they wish.


But the painter used a lazy template that the buyer was unaware of. It's one thing to understand the closets and shelving would not get painted, but it's another to know you will at least be opening the closet door on occasion and would expect it to match the rest of the new paint job.

The painter has egg all over his face on this one.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

CApainter said:


> But the painter used a lazy template that the buyer was unaware of. It's one thing to understand the closets and shelving would not get painted, but it's another to know you will at least be opening the closet door on occasion and would expect it to match the rest of the new paint job.
> 
> The painter has egg all over his face on this one.


I'm not sure about egg all over his face, more like a simple miscommunication. He's right after all it just should have been discussed prior to this point.

If it's a color change as stated does that mean he should do the other side of the jam? It would look weird if the door was a different color. But wait a minute, it would look weird having the jam a different color than the base in there, should he paint that too? I've been in master closets with window frames guess now we're doing that!

Who's going into a linen closet, closing the door and looking anyway?


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

CApainter said:


> But the painter used a lazy template that the buyer was unaware of. It's one thing to understand the closets and shelving would not get painted, but it's another to know you will at least be opening the closet door on occasion and would expect it to match the rest of the new paint job.
> 
> The painter has egg all over his face on this one.


Probably 98% of the time a repaint is just a refreshening of the existing door and trim color. If an actual color change was going to be done, or, as in this case, the doors hadn’t ever been painted, then a more thorough discussion about the scope of the job would be in order.


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

I agree that the inside of the closet door is part of the closet, which was excluded. That being said, if I saw that the door was a different color I would have painted it and at least as much of the jamb that is visible from the room side. The reason I would do it is because I want you to hire me for the next job.


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## rosespainting (Mar 16, 2014)

I too would not have included the closet side of closet doors, when the closets were explicitly excluded. Though I would have painted them for the cost of the extra paint, to keep a happy customer.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Obviously, anyone is free to do whatever they feel is necessary to keep a customer happy and to get repeat business. Personally, I’ve never felt the need to give away my work in order to do so. Treating people fairly and doing what they have paid me to do in a quality manner has gotten me more repeat and referral business then I can handle. Apparently people don’t get too put off by not getting freebies.


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## ParamountPaint (Aug 25, 2016)

I always specify "door sides", as in the side facing the room that is getting painted. Why would you run around painting the doors facing a room you aren't painting?

Especially acute when bedroom/s facing a hallway are being done, without the hallway. It would look a bit silly to have one shiny new door in the hallway with all of the older-painted ones.


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## goga (Aug 6, 2015)

Bella612 said:


> HI, I'm new to painttalk,
> 
> I'm a designer and have a current interior paint job for all interior rooms except for closets (clothing, linen etc.) and closet style pantry. The job quote included *all doors and trim, (two coats) *kitchen and master bath cabinets as well as ceilings and walls. (quote of almost $16K; approx. 8-9 days of work, home is about 3,200 sq. ft.)
> 
> ...


I'm guessing you have a very good luck finding someone to paint "everything" in a 3200 sf house for 16k. It is not an 8 or 9 days of work, just for the info.


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## goga (Aug 6, 2015)

PS: And if you are in a charity of helping contractors, next time use Home Depot paints, saves a much more bunch of cost for the contractor)


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## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

Unless otherwise stated — One side of doors and jams will be painted into facing rooms. 
We highlite in bold text. Communication is key written is best as oral turns into he said you said and both say they are right. Put EVERYTHING n paper ie email and paper real old school paper.


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## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

What he said. There needs to be a walk through and discussion about the scope of the job. 

But this here is important especially with a color or sheen change.

The closets in the op scope were excluded. Especially a pantry (walk in?). If the pantry was indeed a walk in that's another room. That side of the door and the trim in that room should match. I would want trim and doors on both sides to match in all rooms but that's me and sometimes due to budget or design choice doesn't happen. 

This issue being discussed is no different than painting a front door. The customer wants a red front door. Do you paint both sides and all edges red? Typically no....you paint the exterior side red. You paint the hinge edge red. You paint the interior side and strike edge interior trim color. If the house has a stair case or large foyer where the top of the door can be seen you paint that trim color. Typically. 

Same rules apply to interior doors imho. It's the customer or designers job to determine the final look.







ParamountPaint said:


> I always specify "door sides", as in the side facing the room that is getting painted. Why would you run around painting the doors facing a room you aren't painting?
> 
> Especially acute when bedroom/s facing a hallway are being done, without the hallway. It would look a bit silly to have one shiny new door in the hallway with all of the older-painted ones.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

If I'm painting a crappy little home and the homeowner told me not to paint closets, I'd probably not include the closet side of the door. Who cares if this cheap skate doesn't hire me again.

But a $16,000.00 paint job on a 3,200 sf empty interior directed by a hired designer? You damn right I'm painting the inside of the closet door, regardless if I'm not painting the closet. That has lazy and screw you all over it.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

CApainter said:


> If I'm painting a crappy little home and the homeowner told me not to paint closets, I'd probably not include the closet side of the door. Who cares if this cheap skate doesn't hire me again.
> 
> But a $16,000.00 paint job on a 3,200 sf empty interior directed by a hired designer? You damn right I'm painting the inside of the closet door, regardless if I'm not painting the closet. That has lazy and screw you all over it.


Of course, in a 3200sf home, there are going to be quite a few closet doors that may need work, not just one. In fact, for those of us who do tons of interior work, we know that there are likely more closet doors in a home than any other type so for the painter not to ask about them is pretty stupid.
I would agree that laziness was involved here, not because he didn’t decide to throw them in after the fact, but because he didn’t discuss them with the designer in the first place. 
Also, there is culpability on the part of the designer for not clarifying what she wanted done and what her expectations were. IMO, there was poor communication all the way around in this situation.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I won't argue with that.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Get it in writing!*

I would think that on a job as big as this, with the potential for a mistake being a big one, the best thing for the contractor to do is first go over everything with the client onsite first, then be very explicit in his proposal about just what will be painted and how many coats and so forth. After the proposal/bid is ready, whoever is authorizing the work should carefully go through the proposal and make sure that all is in order.

Since we don't have the Bella's redacted proposal to look at, it is hard to determine whether or not it was too vague and misleading for Bella (Bella, this is a hint for you to redact the proposal and post it here so we can actually see how it is worded). Therefore, it is hard to cast any blame in either direction.

What I get out of this is that I should double down on my proposals to make sure that I am as descriptive as possible as to what will be done, then have the authorized person accept the proposal by signing it and authorizing the work to be done as detailed. In case I missed something that I don't want to have to do for free later, I put this into the proposal above the authorizing signature line:

*Any alteration or deviation from above specifications involving extra costs will be executed only upon written order and will become an extra charge over and above what is stated in this Proposal. All agreements are contingent upon delays beyond our control.*

This way, if there is any question about not doing something that was not on the proposal, I would explain that the purpose of getting a signature is so that both parties will know what is agreed upon being done and that if something not mentioned is desired to be done later, the signor agrees that it will be done at an extra cost.

The whole purpose of presenting a written proposal and getting it signed is so that there will be a meeting of the minds for purposes of contract. The proposal should be clear on what is to be done. The responsibility should then be upon the client to carefully read the proposal and see whether everything that is desired to be done is included within the proposal. If someone wants to sign a proposal and authorize the work described therein without reading the proposal carefully, why should the painting contractor be taken to task for not doing work that was not included within the proposal?

On a job as big as this one was (at least for me), I think I might have actually sat down in person with the client and gone over the proposal line by line to make sure I am accurately proposing what they want done. This would be especially so if the client was a designer or decorator with whom I might get future work from! As a friend of mine is fond of saying, "one aw sh_t takes away 10 atta boys."

I cannot recall if I have ever gotten myself into this position with a client after I started giving written proposals. I hope that I can avoid letting this happen in the future!

futtyos


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## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

What I'm going to say is a bit of a generalized view but there are a lot of homeowners who buy a 3200sqft, vinyl clad mcmansion who can hardly afford the mortgage payment let alone upkeep and maintenance. 

The true cost of home ownership is lost on the great Majority. Sqft plays a large impact on even simple work like say painting or even landscape upkeep. 

Without seeing the home, trim package, finish expectations etc maybe it was contractor laziness. Or the customer was trying to save $$$ by not doing the closets after the first proposal was submitted that included that work? 

The fact that the kitchen and bathroom cabs were to be painted in the scope of the job makes it seem the home was going to be unoccupied...either family on vacation or before they move in. 

I'm not saying I would have approached this situation as the contractor did in the OP but there are plenty of people who after submitting a bid want you to trim it to fit a price point. If this went back and forth maybe the contractor was fed up and maybe they should have walked away. 



CApainter said:


> If I'm painting a crappy little home and the homeowner told me not to paint closets, I'd probably not include the closet side of the door. Who cares if this cheap skate doesn't hire me again.
> 
> But a $16,000.00 paint job on a 3,200 sf empty interior directed by a hired designer? You damn right I'm painting the inside of the closet door, regardless if I'm not painting the closet. That has lazy and screw you all over it.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

sayn3ver said:


> What I'm going to say is a bit of a generalized view but there are a lot of homeowners who buy a 3200sqft, vinyl clad mcmansion who can hardly afford the mortgage payment let alone upkeep and maintenance.
> 
> The true cost of home ownership is lost on the great Majority. Sqft plays a large impact on even simple work like say painting or even landscape upkeep.
> 
> ...


This is the problem with the painting product. On a partial paint job, where do you square up that's equitable for everyone? Only the competent person knows that. And that's the painter. The contractor has to know that every time that owner opens their closet door, all they're going to think is "Effin painters"


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

Gwarel said:


> I agree that the inside of the closet door is part of the closet, which was excluded. That being said, if I saw that the door was a different color I would have painted it and at least as much of the jamb that is visible from the room side. The reason I would do it is because I want you to hire me for the next job.


To be clear, it's my job to be thorough on the walk thru and regarding the scope. If the doors colors were changing I should recommend both sides be painted and have the cost of that in my bid. If I missed it (OP stated 8 door sides) I would just do it. Communication, as stated by many respected members, is key.


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## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

Agreed. 

I still don't think it should be done for free. And if the GC or designer or customer wants half a door painted then so be it if they don't want to pay. But I wouldn't want my name on it at that point either. Cause you know what the next contractor is going to think lol. 



Gwarel said:


> Gwarel said:
> 
> 
> > I agree that the inside of the closet door is part of the closet, which was excluded. That being said, if I saw that the door was a different color I would have painted it and at least as much of the jamb that is visible from the room side. The reason I would do it is because I want you to hire me for the next job.
> ...


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

CApainter said:


> I think there is some responsibility on the part of a painting contractor to point things out to the layman, like the consequences a single sided painted door can have on the overall results of an expensive paint job. It's lazy.
> 
> I would bid this painter farewell for good for his uncooperative behavior. The price he got for the overall job was likely well within the range to offer to paint the other side of the doors. Even if it was just one coat.


I disagree, if the decorina doesn't know the standard practices, they should look for another line of work! A first- year apprentice can figure that out.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Can we see the contract, please?*



futtyos said:


> I would think that on a job as big as this, with the potential for a mistake being a big one, the best thing for the contractor to do is first go over everything with the client onsite first, then be very explicit in his proposal about just what will be painted and how many coats and so forth. After the proposal/bid is ready, whoever is authorizing the work should carefully go through the proposal and make sure that all is in order.
> 
> Since we don't have the Bella's redacted proposal to look at, it is hard to determine whether or not it was too vague and misleading for Bella (Bella, this is a hint for you to redact the proposal and post it here so we can actually see how it is worded). Therefore, it is hard to cast any blame in either direction.
> 
> ...


Bella, you obviously thought about your situation long enough to figure out coming here to ask the advice of painters, contracting and otherwise. You have gotten some valuable input from a number of members here, but we still haven't seen what your agreement was with the painting contractor.

I have tried to make a mental note to ask for lots of details of posters such as yourself before wondering if I have anything helpul to say. I jumped my own gun with my comment above. I should have first asked the following:

1. Can we see a redacted copy of the contract you or the home owner had with the painting contractor? Please edit out or black out names, addresses, phone numbers, emails or any other personal information other than the details of the work to be done.

2. You mention that the ceilings, trim and walls, excepting closets and pantry, were to be painted. You also mentioned that the trim and door color was being changed from a beige to a white. Were the wall colors being changed as well? (I am assuming that the ceilings were to stay white). If so, from what to what? And.....were the closets all white or were they the same color as the walls in the rooms? 

I see this as a contract/standard practices dispute. I am sure that if you brought this to court, the judge would want to see the contract and if she knew anything about painting, she would want to know what colors were existing and what colors were to be painted where.

Without knowing more, I really cannot say what is going on. As you can see from the various answers to your question, those here have differing opinions about what is going, but none are actually based upon a reading of the contract or knowing the answers to my 2nd question above. I could be wrong, but..........

futtyos


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Sadly Bella hasn't even been logged in to the forum since roughly one hour after they created this post. Unfortunate when that happens.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Familiar story*



Wildbill7145 said:


> Sadly Bella hasn't even been logged in to the forum since roughly one hour after they created this post. Unfortunate when that happens.


Since I have become a member here I have noticed this happening several times where someone who actually does not paint comes here to ask questions, then disappears for good without ever having given enough details to accurately describe their situation. Hopefully Bella will come back and do so.

futtyos


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

futtyos said:


> Since I have become a member here I have noticed this happening several times where someone who actually does not paint comes here to ask questions, then disappears for good without ever having given enough details to accurately describe their situation. Hopefully Bella will come back and do so.
> 
> futtyos


Don’t worry, in about five years or so, some newbie will resurrect this thread with another question for her. Perhaps she’ll be back and able to respond by then.lain:


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

RH said:


> Don’t worry, in about five years or so, some newbie will resurrect this thread with another question for her. Perhaps she’ll be back and able to respond by then.lain:


Assuming it was a "she":biggrin:


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## AngieM (Apr 13, 2016)

chrisn said:


> Assuming it was a "she"




Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk


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## PaPainter724 (Apr 22, 2016)

Wow, that was a heated post lol. Clearly, I'm a little late to the game, but generally speaking, when I bid doors, I bid the entire door but will make a note to ask the homeowner about the backsides of closet doors, etc especially for repaints. This may just be me, but most people fill their closets with things, so an unpainted closet won't be that noticeable but an unpainted, dingy half painted door thats hanging open will be an obvious eyesore, and so I just assume the owners want that painted until I ask them. Hell, sometimes I'll do it for free just because it annoys me. 5 extra minutes with a brush and mini roller isn't the end of the world if it gets me a repeat customer or better word of mouth. 

Although, I do mostly commercial work, so it might just be that I don't come across that a lot so I'm probably more lenient.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

wildbill7145 said:


> sadly bella hasn't even been logged in to the forum since roughly one hour after they created this post. Unfortunate when that happens.





futtyos said:


> since i have become a member here i have noticed this happening several times where someone who actually does not paint comes here to ask questions, then disappears for good without ever having given enough details to accurately describe their situation. Hopefully bella will come back and do so. Futtyos





rh said:


> don’t worry, in about five years or so, some newbie will resurrect this thread with another question for her. Perhaps she’ll be back and able to respond by then.lain:



Bella!!!


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## SweetLu (Feb 28, 2017)

In this situation, no one is getting ripped off. It was a lack of communication from both parties. The painter you hired... you gotta pay him this time, and remember for next time to make sure this is well communicated. Lack of communication is always both parties fault, and not one more than the other.


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## SweetLu (Feb 28, 2017)

Also, I personally don’t like the idea that Benjamin Moore is better than Sherwin. The best line at Sherwin is better than the worst at BM. Benjamin Moore is a company, not a line of paint.
I swear I’ve had customers rather me buy the 30$ BM than the 60$ S-W. and I’m more than happy to. But it’s their loss.


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

chrisn said:


> Assuming it was a "she":biggrin:


Could it have been this Bella?


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## Java Painting (Sep 21, 2016)

Normally on my Estimates Interior doors mean "Both sides" 2 coats
but is better always be clear at begin


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## bill.marshall.94 (Aug 13, 2017)

Java Painting said:


> Normally on my Estimates Interior doors mean "Both sides" 2 coats
> but is better always be clear at begin


If your not painting closest, which most are sliding doors, i would not paint it, if the door swings open, then i would paint it. Like many have said, put it on paper, but needs to be explained to customer.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

chrisn said:


> Assuming it was a "she":biggrin:


It might have been this Bela!




He just wants to suck your blood.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

futtyos said:


> Since I have become a member here I have noticed this happening several times where someone who actually does not paint comes here to ask questions, then disappears for good without ever having given enough details to accurately describe their situation. Hopefully Bella will come back and do so.
> 
> futtyos


Those would more than likely be the SW trolls looking for an answer to a question or a situation they have no idea how to answer or handle.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

so is it a "side" or a "door"? That.....is the question.


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