# Blocking resistant paint



## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

Looking for a blocking resistant exterior paint, preferably in a low luster sheen for like-painted surface contact. I had “every” painted wood window screen on a guest house I did last year become welded to like-painted wood window frames. The screens were installed a month after finishing and were finished & stored in a dry conditioned space prior to installation with an RH of < 30% @ 70 degrees F. Both windows and screens were finished with Aura exterior low luster as per the architect’s spec last fall. 

The HOs removed what screens they could in order for the window cleaning contractor to perform bi-annual glass cleaning, all being removed with extreme difficulty, pulling both paint and damaging wood due to blocking, also placing cardboard between the screens when temporarily storing them, the cardboard sticking to the paint 8 months after finishing. The paint on the screens is rubbery/tacky-feeling 8+ months later, almost appearing as if it never completely cured. I had stacked the screens yesterday when repairing & re-prepping them indoors and they were sticking to themselves. I also ended up breaking a couple of the remaining stuck screens (pics of the worst one..ouch!) which neither the HO or window cleaning contractor could remove when using a wood block and dead blow, the screen faces being welded to the parting strips and jambs. I also might add that the sticking was not fit related. There is minimal film buildup...everything was primed with 094 followed by two coats of finish w/out extender or cut with water & applied to recommended wet/dry film thicknesses. 

Aside from all the screens and window jambs/parting strips needing to be repaired and repainted, what to do? Use the Aura again and apply paste wax to screen edges and back faces (to be de-waxed for subsequent repaints)? Maybe SnapDry for the screen edges and back faces, which only comes in semi-gloss according to the local Sherwin Williams retailer (I noticed on the SW website it’s available in satin.). The window frames cannot be finished with SnapDry due to sheen differences. This was the same Aura I was having problems with the excessive surfactant leaching last year...wondering if it’s a product defect and the paint isn’t properly coalescing?


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

As I was reading your post, I was wondering if it was a medium/dark color. I had a similar experience with exterior Aura on shutters many years. I see it’s still an issue. 

Sorry, I don’t know of another product to recommend.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

Did you check with your BM rep about this failure, they might be able to do a chemical analysis to discover the cause?


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

slinger58 said:


> As I was reading your post, I was wondering if it was a medium/dark color. I had a similar experience with exterior Aura on shutters many years. I see it’s still an issue.
> 
> Sorry, I don’t know of another product to recommend.
> 
> ...


One of my first google search results about the Aura experiencing blocking and remaining tacky was a post of yours from 2013 involving “slinger's sticky shutters”...

Yes, it was a fairly dark #3 base gray color. 
@Brushman4 

No, I never followed up with Moore’s on it due to it occurring with multiple batches under different conditions.


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## celicaxx (May 29, 2015)

One of PPG Breakthrough's weird selling points is that it doesn't stick to itself when wet, as in, after 20 minutes, if you close a cabinet door onto the cabinet frame, it won't stick, supposedly. Same with door to door frame, etc. 

I never tested it for this kind of use, though. 

Probably is not right to use in this scenario, as now the TDS only says "interior wood" and not exterior wood. They make another product now that's supposed to be a Break-Through like product better for exterior called Advantage 900, I don't know if it has that same attribute as Break-Through or not, where it doesn't stick to itself while curing. 

If you're sticking to BM, I think Regal is always more reliable and generally easier to work with than Aura, both inside and out.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Redux said:


> Looking for a blocking resistant exterior paint, preferably in a low luster sheen for like-painted surface contact. I had “every” painted wood window screen on a guest house I did last year become welded to like-painted wood window frames. The screens were installed a month after finishing and were finished & stored in a dry conditioned space prior to installation with an RH of < 30% @ 70 degrees F. Both windows and screens were finished with Aura exterior low luster as per the architect’s spec last fall.
> 
> The HOs removed what screens they could in order for the window cleaning contractor to perform bi-annual glass cleaning, all being removed with extreme difficulty, pulling both paint and damaging wood due to blocking, also placing cardboard between the screens when temporarily storing them, the cardboard sticking to the paint 8 months after finishing. The paint on the screens is rubbery/tacky-feeling 8+ months later, almost appearing as if it never completely cured. I had stacked the screens yesterday when repairing & re-prepping them indoors and they were sticking to themselves. I also ended up breaking a couple of the remaining stuck screens (pics of the worst one..ouch!) which neither the HO or window cleaning contractor could remove when using a wood block and dead blow, the screen faces being welded to the parting strips and jambs. I also might add that the sticking was not fit related. There is minimal film buildup...everything was primed with 094 followed by two coats of finish w/out extender or cut with water & applied to recommended wet/dry film thicknesses.
> 
> Aside from all the screens and window jambs/parting strips needing to be repaired and repainted, what to do? Use the Aura again and apply paste wax to screen edges and back faces (to be de-waxed for subsequent repaints)? Maybe SnapDry for the screen edges and back faces, which only comes in semi-gloss according to the local Sherwin Williams retailer (I noticed on the SW website it’s available in satin.). The window frames cannot be finished with SnapDry due to sheen differences. This was the same Aura I was having problems with the excessive surfactant leaching last year...wondering if it’s a product defect and the paint isn’t properly coalescing?


 @*Redux* check my other threads on spraying fog coats. We are finishing wood doors, metal screens, downspouts etc with the following schedule:
Sand 150.
Benite. (can be left alone installed several weeks or so installed after benite)
Buff sand blow dust.
Fog coat, 046 then wet coat 046.
buff sand blow dust.

install door stackers, then flip and spray other side.
about an hour buff sand and blow dust.
2 fog coats aura exterior, maybe 30min between coats.
buff sand blow dust.

1 wet coat aura exterior.
gave a couple hours to dry then installed by 5:00pm same day.


We are spraying HVLP #3 and thinning our material roughly 30% until it loosens up to about the consistency of waterborne lacquer.
When I removed the stacking hardware from the doors we used galvanized washers as a spacer. I had to take a hammer+chisel to them to knock them loose as they had fused to the 046 primer already after just a couple hours. Normally if you had done this and sprayed airless if would have pulled off the primer with the washer but here all of the primer stayed adhered to the wood.
I can't explain why but shooting the material this way VASTLY increases the early block resistance of paints including mooreglo, aura ext, cabinetcoat etc. Its kind of freaky actually being able to try and rub off mooreglo in a deep base from a metal door after 10 minutes and its already nice and hard.


*metal doors and downspouts just get a quick buff to remove the sheen then proceed with spraying mooreglo, no primer.


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## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

Snap dry has fairly good blocking resistance I have used the satin before. Also a-100 is suprisingly block resistant in my experience. The higher end paints stay flexible and sticky.


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## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

Would a tiny felt bumper work to keep them separated. It wouldn't be visible and should not hold the screen out any noticeable distance. As long as the 3/4 edge wasn't sticking to the sides that should solve it.


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## Horbgorble (Aug 8, 2020)

I also recommend a-100, it is a good blocking resistance.


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> @*Redux* check my other threads on spraying fog coats. We are finishing wood doors, metal screens, downspouts etc with the following schedule:
> Sand 150.
> Benite. (can be left alone installed several weeks or so installed after benite)
> Buff sand blow dust.
> ...


Interesting..
Given the pigment load for the color I’m working with, the addition of water results in some pretty extreme pigment separation. I’m thinking that cutting it 30% “might” result in floating & flooding within the wet film, which wouldn’t hold true for all pigment loads. 

I also noticed that the pigment and fillers become prematurely unbound when thinning too much, if the dry film isn’t to spec. The windows on the guest house were originally factory finished with the same Aura utilizing HVLP and didn’t experience blocking as you suggested they wouldn’t (guessing the finishers pissed it down with water), yet the dry film was noticeably thinner than the 100+ site finished units on the main house. The factory sprayed units did experience severe chalking only 3 years out. That would be my reservation with cutting it too much. 

Being that you mentioned the 046..the 046 might just be the exterior/interior go-to primer for many painters in my state when the new VOC regulations kick in effective Jan 1st. VOCs for primers/sealers/undercoaters will be limited to 100 grams/liter, pretty much eliminating all oil primers, w/quarts being exempt. I’m waiting for the day the quart loophole is closed.

I was also looking into anti-blocking agents for acrylic dispersions, one of which I’ve used is no longer in manufacture. It also provided several added benefits in coating performance.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Redux said:


> Interesting..
> Given the pigment load for the color I’m working with, the addition of water results in



Used system this lots with cordovan brown w096 in particular and many other 4x colors.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

This sucks. Given your knowledge, I'm sure you applied the paint per the manufacturer's recommendation and with the best of painting practices. 

That said, I have a couple of questions;
1. Were the areas that were blocking subject to excessive moisture by climate or intentional cleaning?
2. Was there excessive force on the screens that would have pressed them hard against the adjacent surface?
3. Did you spray or brush the finish? 

I don't know what the molecular dynamics are with paint when it's atomized by spray application verses pulled from a container in a passive state and laid on a surface, but I have experienced a paint film has a tendency to dry a little harder when sprayed.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Sherwin Williams Pro Industrial Multi Surface Acrylic has some great blocking abilities even with dark colors. 

Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Used system this lots with cordovan brown w096 in particular and many other 4x colors.


I thinned the Aura 30% as suggested. Before shooting a sample screen I performed a rub up test due to getting a lot of pigment separation, which prompted me not to proceed. 

The following is what I got at the 10 minute mark:

The first pic is of the thinned paint after 10 minutes and the 2nd pic is of a rub up test where the paint was applied to a sample board 10 minutes after thinning. The rub up test illustrates pigment flooding and/or flocculation within the film...the lighter shade at the top of the 2nd photo is where it wasn’t touched, and the darker shade it where it was rubbed. The lighter colored pigments appear to be rising to the surface in the wet film when cutting it with water, resulting in the color being noticeably lighter. I’ve often been accused of overthinking things, but with this client, it’s an absolute must.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Redux said:


> cocomonkeynuts said:
> 
> 
> > Used system this lots with cordovan brown w096 in particular and many other 4x colors.
> ...


Don't see anything like that here. Have shot every base of mooreglo and quite a bit of deep base aura and cabinet coat as well. Attached are pics of w096 cordovan brown. First is just 1 fog coat.


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## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

Note to self: If you can't find the wood glue, just use Aura.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I'm confused. Probably because I'm not reading the thread thoroughly. 

Was the finish that is blocking, sprayed with a 30% cut of thinner, or extender? And where was it recommended to thin the Aura 30%? Because, I just briefly looked at the Aura Low lustre and it recommended not to exceed 8%/gal. What am I missing? Thanks.

Edit: Never mind. I get it. Unlike an automotive paint, I'm not sure the Aura Acrylic Latex resin is designed to be applied as a tack coat thinned to that degree. Just my opinion.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

CApainter said:


> Edit: Never mind. I get it. Unlike an automotive paint, I'm not sure the Aura Acrylic Latex resin is designed to be applied as a tack coat thinned to that degree. Just my opinion.



I don't think any architectural paints are designed that way. I don't really measure the exact % we are thinning the material, its mostly by feel in the cup. I just estimate it has to be somewhere 20-30% where the paint suddenly passes a threshold and loosens up enough to lay down, not thin enough and it becomes a sand paper like finish. The guy I learned this from has been spraying Impervo and mooreglo for decades like this. We sprayed some Aura this way 3 weeks ago and it was just fine. when we went back to do touch ups last weekend. We had installed the doors with weather stripping the same day.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I get it. But in light of the blocking issues this thread is in regards to, it seems that coating alterations beyond the product recommendations, makes it even more vague on how to prevent blocking. That's just me. I still find this thread interesting.


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

CApainter said:


> I'm confused. Probably because I'm not reading the thread thoroughly.
> 
> Was the finish that is blocking, sprayed with a 30% cut of thinner, or extender? And where was it recommended to thin the Aura 30%? Because, I just briefly looked at the Aura Low lustre and it recommended not to exceed 8%/gal. What am I missing? Thanks.
> 
> Edit: Never mind. I get it. Unlike an automotive paint, I'm not sure the Aura Acrylic Latex resin is designed to be applied as a tack coat thinned to that degree. Just my opinion.


The paint that experienced blocking wasn’t thinned and was applied straight out of the can. I thought I’d try Cocomonkeynuts suggestion for thinning with water by 30% before switching products. The water did however appear to destabilize the pigment dispersion which might not be the case for certain pigments. 

As per your previous questions, everything remained moisture free during the initial 12 hr drying as per the recommendation of a Moore’s tech rep. There was no excessive pressure, just like painted surface contact. Windows are cleaned with plain old mild dish soap. Heat also doesn’t appear to be the cause due to the blocking experienced when temporarily stored in a conditioned space. Weather strippings did not experience any sticking whatsoever. Everything was brush finished. 

I thought the client was exaggerating the severity of it, especially when stating that 3 strong adults couldn’t remove them. I really had to wail on them with a framing hammer and wood block just to overcome the cohesion, breaking wood in the process which is AYC. 

Wanting to put this thing in my rear-view mirror, I ended up coating the backs and edges of the screens with SnapDry earlier. I was reading about a test done where like painted surfaces finished with SnapDry were clamped together for 24 hrs, and experienced no blocking when the clamps were removed. Will see how it works. Before reinstalling them, I’m going to clamp an exterior screen face finished with Aura to a backside finished with SnapDry just to insure the two finishes don’t become welded together being that the jambs and parting strips will be finished with Aura. This is where I might thin the paint with water being it won’t be visible.. 

And thanks to everyone for the really great suggestions. I will likely try out some of the products mentioned for the balance of the windows.


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## celicaxx (May 29, 2015)

One thing I've had luck with, but never did on a paying customer's house is thinning latex paints with alcohol. Alcohol seems to do a lot of positive things to acrylic paints, it increases the bond and flow out, and I've gotten paints thinned down a lot that still bonded great with alcohol. I've also even dumped alcohol to frozen paint and gotten it to be workable/usable again, too. 

Some poster on here talked about a boss who thinned Proclassic down with alcohol. 

Actually I thought of the alcohol trick a long time ago on plastic model kits, I didn't want to buy Tamiya paints for $4-5 per tiny jar, so I got acrylic gloss craft paint and thinned it a ton with alcohol and it surprisingly worked well and bonded well to polystyrene plastic this way. The alcohol seems to be enough solvent to etch into the surface of stuff, but it also makes paint dry faster, too, whereas if you thin only with water it will dry slower, and you're diluting any of the solvent content of the paint itself to make it stick, level, etc. So to me 30% water seems like a bad idea for this reason, as you'd increase the cure time (though you'd have a thinner mil layer) and make the paint less strong.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Redux said:


> The paint that experienced blocking wasn’t thinned and was applied straight out of the can. I thought I’d try Cocomonkeynuts suggestion for thinning with water by 30% before switching products. The water did however appear to destabilize the pigment dispersion which might not be the case for certain pigments.
> 
> As per your previous questions, everything remained moisture free during the initial 12 hr drying as per the recommendation of a Moore’s tech rep. There was no excessive pressure, just like painted surface contact. Windows are cleaned with plain old mild dish soap. Heat also doesn’t appear to be the cause due to the blocking experienced when temporarily stored in a conditioned space. Weather strippings did not experience any sticking whatsoever. Everything was brush finished.
> 
> ...



I just measured roughly the fluid volumes we use in our hvlp from a random w0964x mistint roughly AF-180 Wenge, 



10floz paint + 6floz water thins this paint roughly where we want it. Don't see any kind of pigment separation like what you are experiencing.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> I just measured roughly the fluid volumes we use in our hvlp from a random w0964x mistint roughly AF-180 Wenge,
> 
> 
> 
> 10floz paint + 6floz water thins this paint roughly where we want it. Don't see any kind of pigment separation like what you are experiencing.


I totally want to spray more with hvlp, but ya thinning down latex 30% sounds like a bad idea. No? I'm surprized that they don't actually make more hvlp friendly latex products. AKA . Spray ready.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

finishesbykevyn said:


> I totally want to spray more with hvlp, but ya thinning down latex 30% sounds like a bad idea. No? I'm surprized that they don't actually make more hvlp friendly latex products. AKA . Spray ready.



its certainly not in the product specs to do so.


WB lacquers are what you would refer to as HVLP ready 'pants', also I think you can spray many paints without thinning so much with HVLP if you put a larger needle size on them.


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> I just measured roughly the fluid volumes we use in our hvlp from a random w0964x mistint roughly AF-180 Wenge,
> 
> 
> 
> 10floz paint + 6floz water thins this paint roughly where we want it. Don't see any kind of pigment separation like what you are experiencing.


The pigment load with the color I’m using is 14.875 ounces/gal in a 3x base, the S1 being just shy of 8 ounces. The water insoluble S1 carbon black separates very quickly when thinned with too much, or even with not so much water.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Redux said:


> cocomonkeynuts said:
> 
> 
> > I just measured roughly the fluid volumes we use in our hvlp from a random w0964x mistint roughly AF-180 Wenge,
> ...


What color is that? Seems like a high pigment load for a 3x base..


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> What color is that? Seems like a high pigment load for a 3x base..


HC-166
Not being a mixologist, I’m assuming 32 units = 1 oz and a numeric 1 preceding the x represents 32 units or 1 ounce, and the numbers following the x represent units....did I get that right? 

What colorants are in both the AF-180 and Cordovan Brown? R3, G1, B1 with no S1?


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Redux said:


> HC-166
> Not being a mixologist, I’m assuming 32 units = 1 oz and a numeric 1 preceding the x represents 32 units or 1 ounce, and the numbers following the x represent units....did I get that right?
> 
> What colorants are in both the AF-180 and Cordovan Brown? R3, G1, B1 with no S1?


Correct reading the 32nd/oz



cordovan brown w0964x:


y3 1x2
s1 8x4
w1 1x30
r3 1x7


AF-180 w0964x

s1 7x22
r2 4x18
r3 0x9


also shot some 2125-20 deep space in 6343x earlier this year:
s1 10x29
w1 1x29
m1 0x28
y1 1x1


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## celicaxx (May 29, 2015)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> its certainly not in the product specs to do so.
> 
> 
> WB lacquers are what you would refer to as HVLP ready 'pants', also I think you can spray many paints without thinning so much with HVLP if you put a larger needle size on them.


What about LVLP or siphon feed guns? 

Harbor Freight has a cheap LVLP gun that supposedly shoots unthinned latex well.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

celicaxx said:


> What about LVLP or siphon feed guns?
> 
> Harbor Freight has a cheap LVLP gun that supposedly shoots unthinned latex well.



IDK I have I have several turbine units so I havn't bothered with anything else.


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## Ricks Painting (May 2, 2020)

SOLO so ive heard


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Redux said:


> I thinned the Aura 30% as suggested. Before shooting a sample screen I performed a rub up test due to getting a lot of pigment separation, which prompted me not to proceed.
> 
> The following is what I got at the 10 minute mark:
> 
> The first pic is of the thinned paint after 10 minutes and the 2nd pic is of a rub up test where the paint was applied to a sample board 10 minutes after thinning. The rub up test illustrates pigment flooding and/or flocculation within the film...the lighter shade at the top of the 2nd photo is where it wasn’t touched, and the darker shade it where it was rubbed. The lighter colored pigments appear to be rising to the surface in the wet film when cutting it with water, resulting in the color being noticeably lighter. I’ve often been accused of overthinking things, but with this client, it’s an absolute must.



interestingly I have seen something that looked just like this in n638-12 yellow base. the black pigments form little drops where normally it mixes right up. I wonder if its some kind of batch issue.


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## canopainting (Feb 12, 2013)

SW exterior emerald urethane or SW pro Industrial Acrylic.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

canopainting said:


> SW exterior emerald urethane or SW pro Industrial Acrylic.



emerald urethane is absolutely not block resistant, especially so in deep base colors.


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## mug (Dec 22, 2010)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> canopainting said:
> 
> 
> > SW exterior emerald urethane or SW pro Industrial Acrylic.
> ...


You could rub a little baby powder on it; that should prevent it from sticking. 

General finishes enduro pigmented poly sprays fantastic right from the can. I even used a #3 hvlp needle on a nearly black color. However, You do have to add their extender to it depending on heat and humidity. 
And it IS spray only. The color just wouldn't match up.


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## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

Just wondering if you ever found a solution to this?


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

jacob33 said:


> Just wondering if you ever found a solution to this?


I ended up using the SnapDry on the screen edges and backs as per your initial reply. They were reinstalled a couple of weeks ago and it worked out really well...no blocking whatsoever. Thanks!


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## paint life (Oct 6, 2010)

Sounds like Aura to me, surfactant leaching without end!


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## monarchski (Jun 21, 2019)

paint life said:


> Sounds like Aura to me, surfactant leaching without end!


I'm a fan of BM but IMO they laid an egg with Aura and need to reformulate that product, especially the exterior. It dries so fast you can barely spray it outside on an even mildly warm day and in the heat of the summer? It dries coming out of the gun. :vs_mad:


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## IKnowNothing (Oct 15, 2020)

celicaxx said:


> One thing I've had luck with, but never did on a paying customer's house is thinning latex paints with alcohol. Alcohol seems to do a lot of positive things to acrylic paints, it increases the bond and flow out, and I've gotten paints thinned down a lot that still bonded great with alcohol. I've also even dumped alcohol to frozen paint and gotten it to be workable/usable again, too.
> 
> Some poster on here talked about a boss who thinned Proclassic down with alcohol.
> 
> Actually I thought of the alcohol trick a long time ago on plastic model kits, I didn't want to buy Tamiya paints for $4-5 per tiny jar, so I got acrylic gloss craft paint and thinned it a ton with alcohol and it surprisingly worked well and bonded well to polystyrene plastic this way. The alcohol seems to be enough solvent to etch into the surface of stuff, but it also makes paint dry faster, too, whereas if you thin only with water it will dry slower, and you're diluting any of the solvent content of the paint itself to make it stick, level, etc. So to me 30% water seems like a bad idea for this reason, as you'd increase the cure time (though you'd have a thinner mil layer) and make the paint less strong.


Sounds like a massive waste of alcohol.
Imagine all the fancy cocktails that could be made with it.

This is actually very interesting. I hope resident expert chemists will chime in on it.
I was wondering if adding car antifreeze to the paint would be OK in order to slow paint drying too fast. 
Increasing open time for cutting (and rolling) is always a good thing with todays fast drying paints.


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## celicaxx (May 29, 2015)

IKnowNothing said:


> Sounds like a massive waste of alcohol.
> Imagine all the fancy cocktails that could be made with it.
> 
> This is actually very interesting. I hope resident expert chemists will chime in on it.
> ...


Apparently XIM Extender is just glycol, same as car antifreeze. I think BM Extender is also glycol? I'd not add car anti-freeze due to the green dye, and it being car anti-freeze. 

For me technique-wise, I tend to cut and roll one wall at a time, so I'm rolling into wet cuts. But some paints like BM Aura and to a smaller extent Regal want dry cuts, and the paint somehow melts the cuts together. You can still add water to a lot of paints, but notably SW won't give a reduction spec in the data sheets now. Otherwise for rolling, I tend to just use a _prewetted_ microfiber cover. It helps paint release a lot, and I guess marginally thins the paint?

On trim is where it gets harder. I found on trim using a very fast drying paint (BM Aura semi) I couldn't do my traditional sort of "put it on however and lay it off" where I'd pull everything down. An older guy I worked with showed me a technique of basically starting from the bottom and painting up, I eventually came to a technique of almost meeting in the middle with no layoff at the end that looked good. Another guy I work with is imo a better trim painter than me, but he's very good at not fooling around with his paint, but I tend to do it more, and thus like the slower drying paints like BM Advance where I can do big full length layoffs on a door casing or similar.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

I saw a video with some guy swearing on adding windsheild washing fluid to his trim paint, as it has some glycol in it as well. I'll just stick with Extender though...


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## IKnowNothing (Oct 15, 2020)

celicaxx said:


> Apparently XIM Extender is just glycol, same as car antifreeze. I think BM Extender is also glycol? I'd not add car anti-freeze due to the green dye, and it being car anti-freeze.
> 
> For me technique-wise, I tend to cut and roll one wall at a time, so I'm rolling into wet cuts. But some paints like BM Aura and to a smaller extent Regal want dry cuts, and the paint somehow melts the cuts together. You can still add water to a lot of paints, but notably SW won't give a reduction spec in the data sheets now. Otherwise for rolling, I tend to just use a _prewetted_ microfiber cover. It helps paint release a lot, and I guess marginally thins the paint?
> 
> On trim is where it gets harder. I found on trim using a very fast drying paint (BM Aura semi) I couldn't do my traditional sort of "put it on however and lay it off" where I'd pull everything down. An older guy I worked with showed me a technique of basically starting from the bottom and painting up, I eventually came to a technique of almost meeting in the middle with no layoff at the end that looked good. Another guy I work with is imo a better trim painter than me, but he's very good at not fooling around with his paint, but I tend to do it more, and thus like the slower drying paints like BM Advance where I can do big full length layoffs on a door casing or similar.


Lol, yes, I meant glycol itself not the whole car anti-freeze formula. My bad.
I found that BM Extender doesn't work that great on hot dry days.
It works for several minutes and then paint starts to dry fast again.
Yes, agreed, pre-wetting covers is always what I do too. Big difference.

I'm going to try to buy glycol (the type that was used previously in paints, before all the VOC changes),
and will experiment adding to fast drying paints.


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## celicaxx (May 29, 2015)

IKnowNothing said:


> Lol, yes, I meant glycol itself not the whole car anti-freeze formula. My bad.
> I found that BM Extender doesn't work that great on hot dry days.
> It works for several minutes and then paint starts to dry fast again.
> Yes, agreed, pre-wetting covers is always what I do too. Big difference.
> ...


I'd personally just use water depending on the spec. Reason is, water won't technically violate a warranty if a reduction spec for spraying is given, so if it's a job you had to warranty for whatever reason, even something unrelated to you (ie, it fading too quickly) if you make your own proprietary blends then it's unwarrantied. And to me 4-8oz of water usually spec'd will fix application issues I have. 

Of course sometimes warranties are useless, and at best you get a gallon kicked to you, but I've heard in some cases BM with Natura had a legit bad batch or two when it first came out, and paid for rooms to be completely re-sheetrocked. 

For my own projects or small things I'll experiment, but yeah.

One cool thing I read on here though is to make a good "sanding primer" you can actually just add talc to any normal latex primer. I'd love to try that out.


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