# BM vs. SW



## dvspainting (Jul 14, 2014)

Need an opinion on Benjamin Moore vs. Sherwin Williams. Client agreed to Sherwin Williams ext. Paint and now wants Benjamin Moore. He also is insisting on 2 top coats AFTER we have primed with slow drying oil based primer. He's getting all his advice from Benjamin Moore.
Obviously BM is way more expensive but is it any better? Or does it save tons of time and labor?


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## Paint Pro CA (Jun 17, 2014)

Time and labor costs for application are about the same. BM pricing is typically higher over comparable SW products. Saving even a couple hundred bucks off of paint costs on jobs adds up over the year. If a client doesn't specify BM I go SW 90% of the time but thats not to say BM doesn't make a great product. 

SW will deliver paint and materials, offers a credit account, has better discounts, their reps are readily available and they will visit the job sites and I can access my account from any SW store in the country. With BM you have to set up an account and haggle your deal with each and every dealer and their delivery and on-site service is non-existent. 

But if a customer is dead set on BM then give them what they want. Just make sure you factor in any increased paint costs when delivering your price.


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## Slopmeyer (Aug 2, 2009)

If the HO is now changing the scope of work you need to submit a new estimate.

BM costs more per gallon then SW. If the HO is getting his info from the BM store I'm sure they're pushing the Aura which depending on where your located runs $50-70.

I would disagree with the slow dry oil though. To many things can go wrong when something is wet that long. Seen it happen. Rain,bugs, wind blows leaves and crap in it.


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## dvspainting (Jul 14, 2014)

*HO and new estimate*

The HO is very uncooperative and he wanted a contract which we did and now says we made a verbal agreement for BM. He wanted trim and soffit sanded 70-80% bare in most areas but areas where paint was strongly adhered...only 50%. He told my workers they were doing it all wrong and told them he wanted 100% bare. He's telling them he wants to get us to purchase paint then he's going to fire us and the workers can get paid under the table. Its a nightmare. I just want it done but not willing to spend the extra for HIS changes when he won't agree to pay extra for the changes he wants. At a standstill.


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

If you have a contract, remind him that what he signed. If he wants changes, he must sign a change order for a new amount, positive or negative. A verbal agreement will never top a signed agreement in court. If he balks, take pictures, walk, and take him to small claims court. Move on to the next one.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

You're letting the custy walk all over you and worse yet, you're allowing him to dictate how your business will be run. Review your contract, preferably with an attorney or someone knowledgable in contract law. Hopefully you specified the exact paint to be applied, as well as the extent of the preparation, customers expectations, etc. If you did, offer BM for the difference in product cost, provided a change order is signed. 

Once in a while, you'll have to deal with people like this. Be confident, assertive, respectful, and crystal-clear as far as what your customer can expect from this point on. 

Kindly let him know that communications are between you and he, and that you'll delegate duties to your crew. 


Sent from my iPhone using PaintTalk.com


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

dvspainting said:


> He's telling them he wants to get us to purchase paint then he's going to fire us and the workers can get paid under the table. Its a nightmare.


This part is interesting. I guess he's not thinking about the fact that if you found your guys working on his home under the table after he fired your company, they wouldn't be your guys anymore. I would hope your guys would think a little more long term rather than just making some quick cash on one particular job.


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## Toolnut (Nov 23, 2012)

Triple the cost of any change order and when he refuses RUN FORREST RUN.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

is this job in philly?


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## Paint Pro CA (Jun 17, 2014)

Yikes. What a mess. And here I was thinking you were just asking a basic question about SW vs. BM.


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

#1 Always have a written contract :thumbsup:

now sorry for the bad news but if YOU didn't list paint used in contract it's your own fault  you should always list brand, grade of paint and number of coats, by doing this you wouldn't be in this mess

same goes with prep being done, hours worked (M-F 8 am - 4:30) and a few other things

Learning to write a solid contract is #1 in business ... this is a business right?

sad but some customers will see your weakness and take advantage of it

Sorry not trying to be mean just hope you learn from it


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## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

Small claims is by no means a slam dunk even if you win. You still probably won't get paid unless you take them back again after they don't make payments.

I feel for ya people suck they really do after doing this since late 70"s I can tell you that there are good customers but lots of bad ones as well. A signed contact helps in small claims but it's by no means a win. If you can't reason with this guy and it sounds like you can't then contact a lawyer, go to small claims or walk away.


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## dvspainting (Jul 14, 2014)

We did specify paint we would be using and the entire process in contract. My guys are communicating what he is proposing and are not taking the deal. I just wanted to see if there was a stark contrast with paint types because am willing to make the change IF need be to get job closed and move on. I can always put a mechanics lean on house if he refuses to pay. My contract is solid.he just THINKS he's got the upper hand.


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

If he approaches your guys about changes, their response should be: Only my boss can authorize changes, you will have to talk to him. 

That should trigger the change order process where you can explain that change orders are extra and need to be paid upfront and in writing.

Otherwise, the customers is just talking out his ass and needs to be ignored.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

driftweed said:


> If he approaches your guys about changes, their response should be: Only my boss can authorize changes, you will have to talk to him.
> 
> That should trigger the change order process where you can explain that change orders are extra and need to be paid upfront and in writing.
> 
> Otherwise, the customers is just talking out his ass and needs to be ignored.


I think the first two points are right on the mark, but I'd be hesitant to try the last one. That could make getting paid a long, expensive process. Better to get that squared away now, rather than later.


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

dvspainting said:


> We did specify paint we would be using and the entire process in contract. My guys are communicating what he is proposing and are not taking the deal. I just wanted to see if there was a stark contrast with paint types because am willing to make the change IF need be to get job closed and move on. I can always put a mechanics lean on house if he refuses to pay. My contract is solid.he just THINKS he's got the upper hand.


Whatever paint the customer would like now, just check the list price against what you pay for the SW product. This will be the difference in change order, plus any other costs of getting the product to the job site. Or if the customer wants to purchase the paint themselves, also create a change order with no dollar amount change, but pointing to the fact that the HO will provide paint at his expense. I would not drop my price.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

Wow! What a mess. It doesn't sound like you have sat down and had a talk with this A$$ Hat yet. You need to pull your guys off,sit down and get everything in writing. As far as your men...If my guys even entertained the idea he's offering they would be fired immediately.
Not to be mean either,but it sounds like you are loosing control of YOUR business


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## dvspainting (Jul 14, 2014)

Not losing control of my biz.. Itsonly this one client. My guys have my back and r telling me everything. We sat down but he won't agree...just himhaws around. We have written emails too where he's been advised of addtl costs. I've factored the addtl costs and advised him of them. My guys stated he won't let them even prime what was agreed to. Good idea to have him purchase BM paint since its above my scope in signed contract. Thanks


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