# Paint Faster!



## McGregor (Nov 5, 2013)

When I am not spraying, like in an occupied house, I use the roll and brush technique. I roll a whole side of a door, and then I hurry up and brush it out. I can often do the same for door frames and jams. This goes so much faster as I do not have to dip the brush into the cut pot, just roll on a lot of paint and then brush it out.

This technique does not work for crown and base though, the roller is too big. 

Has anyone figured out a similar technique to do crown and base? A way to paint them faster besides dipping the brush so much? 

I work by myself so I am always trying to find ways to go faster or more efficient. 

Thanks!


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## Cutandroll (Mar 3, 2014)

The 4" whizzy could work on crown and more likely on base but most crowns have too much of a profile to use a whizzy on. Plus you need to cut the ceiling anyway.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

McGregor said:


> When I am not spraying, like in an occupied house, I use the roll and brush technique. I roll a whole side of a door, and then I hurry up and brush it out. I can often do the same for door frames and jams. This goes so much faster as I do not have to dip the brush into the cut pot, just roll on a lot of paint and then brush it out.
> 
> This technique does not work for crown and base though, the roller is too big.
> 
> ...



What product are you using to roll and brush out doors and trim?


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

In your quest for raw speed, you must break down each aspect of a job. 

Just like you did w/doors. 

Have you considered "going brushless" ?


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

driftweed said:


> In your quest for raw speed, you must break down each aspect of a job.
> 
> Just like you did w/doors.
> 
> Have you considered "going brushless" ?


driftweed, no disrespect intended ...........are you still painting apartment interiors?


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

I find it helps me to paint better as well as faster simply because of the volume if paint you can apply quickly. It reduces brush strokes because you don't have to brush it as much. It's also conducive to a thicker mil coat. 

I often do crown and wide base with it too. 
4" microfiber.


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

slinger58 said:


> driftweed, no disrespect intended ...........are you still painting apartment interiors?


Yes. Unfortunately I am at an impasse right now trying to find good help. Seems once I get em trained they go elsewhere. I am dying to expand into bathtub/countertop reglazing but until I get help I can't. Its frustrating because I spent $3k getting trained/setup to expand only to have my helper quit. I need a foreman asap.

I have to be fast, gotta finish the job before they quit haha


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Jmayspaint said:


> I find it helps me to paint better as well as faster simply because of the volume if paint you can apply quickly. It reduces brush strokes because you don't have to brush it as much. It's also conducive to a thicker mil coat.
> 
> I often do crown and wide base with it too.
> 4" microfiber.


What product are you using with this technique?


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## ejs (Nov 4, 2011)

If you have to do it manually, block the ends of the base, on 2 benches the right height with a small cleat or screw, on a 2x10 on edge, on a bench ...14-16 ft. long. Put 2 small trays with paint at the ends on the floor, and roll with a lint free 4", 3 feet at a time, lay it off towards the finished edge. At this point in life I use a Graco pot sprayer for 30 or so pieces .


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

slinger58 said:


> What product are you using with this technique?



About anything acrylic really. Started fooling with the technique years ago, I almost always do it now.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

driftweed said:


> Yes. Unfortunately I am at an impasse right now trying to find good help. Seems once I get em trained they go elsewhere. I am dying to expand into bathtub/countertop reglazing but until I get help I can't. Its frustrating because I spent $3k getting trained/setup to expand only to have my helper quit. I need a foreman asap.
> 
> I have to be fast, gotta finish the job before they quit haha


Lol. It's a crazy world in this biz. Hang in there.:thumbsup:


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Jmayspaint said:


> About anything acrylic really. Started fooling with the technique years ago, I almost always do it now.


Do you use this technique with Advance or PC waterborne-alkyd?


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

slinger58 said:


> Do you use this technique with Advance or PC waterborne-alkyd?



I have done it with Advance yes. Usually use a shorter nap roller with it than thicker acrylics,


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

I guess maybe this is just an "age" thing, but I cannot imagine a situation where a roller would help me paint crown or base more efficiently than a brush. I understand the theory of less dips into the workpot, but that is a move that is almost negligible after this many years. It's all about the brush on the surface, not in the pot.


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

I think they are talking about uninstalled trim/crown. Otherwise, I dont see it happening.


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## McGregor (Nov 5, 2013)

Of course uninstalled crown and base could be sprayed easily. I am using a 3" Purdy, the thicker one, and a 1 1/2 nap. Maybe a 4 inch brush would make me a bit faster, but man, that would seem heavy?


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## Cutandroll (Mar 3, 2014)

You're using a 3" box purdy and 1-1/2 inch nap roofer for trim. You're out of your mind. Where's quality control on that. That roller holds too much paint. IMO stop trying to cut small corners and just brush it in. "speed kills" do it right with little mess or clean up thats faster all day long. In racing we have a saying sLow is fast. Which means clean tight lines at the right pace is faster then sloppy fast lines because you'll always be trying to fix you mistakes.


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## Pretty Handy Mandi (Oct 6, 2013)

I am with Jmays on this one. I use a 4" whiz WITH ABSOLUTELY ALL of my brush work.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

for the youngbucks who think they know it all .....LOOK !! it really is possible to paint with a brush... imagine that 



epic move @2:22 ...........




http://youtu.be/5JRs7LuCEUk


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

I just lore a cat over to my paint pot with some nice freshly cooked bacon, dip the cat into the pot and toss the bacon near where I need the paint. Painting crown this way is very tricky as I have to throw the cat and bacon up towards the ceiling at the same time. The cats don't like that much.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

driftweed said:


> I think they are talking about uninstalled trim/crown. Otherwise, I dont see it happening.


:yes: catch your drift!


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Cutandroll said:


> You're using a 3" box purdy and 1-1/2 inch nap roofer for trim. You're out of your mind. Where's quality control on that. That roller holds too much paint. IMO stop trying to cut small corners and just brush it in. "speed kills" do it right with little mess or clean up thats faster all day long. In racing we have a saying sLow is fast. Which means clean tight lines at the right pace is faster then sloppy fast lines because you'll always be trying to fix you mistakes.


Let the good times roll!


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## Pretty Handy Mandi (Oct 6, 2013)

driftweed said:


> I think they are talking about uninstalled trim/crown. Otherwise, I dont see it happening.


I whiz installed base and crown. Cut the edge with a brush Then stroke it out. 4 foot sections


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## zellerman2001 (Apr 15, 2013)

*painting faster*

One quick way to do your crown is to use two spray shields and another person. place one spray shield at the top of the crown and the other at the base of the crown... " be sure to cover all necessary areas, adjust your sprayer and use a 211 tip". also works well on chair rail and base. be careful of paint buildup on spray shields, especially when doing basssse.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Cutandroll said:


> You're using a 3" box purdy and 1-1/2 inch nap roofer for trim. You're out of your mind. Where's quality control on that. That roller holds too much paint. IMO stop trying to cut small corners and just brush it in. "speed kills" do it right with little mess or clean up thats faster all day long. In racing we have a saying sLow is fast. Which means clean tight lines at the right pace is faster then sloppy fast lines because you'll always be trying to fix you mistakes.


Slow makes smooth,smooth makes fast, someone once quoted.Very true.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Pretty Handy Mandi said:


> I whiz installed base and crown. Cut the edge with a brush Then stroke it out. 4 foot sections


I brush then go take a whiz!


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## bklynboy1970 (Oct 8, 2013)

mudbone said:


> I brush then go take a whiz!


You guys are missing the point of the whizz... & brush for cutting in....great trick less dipping just saying, I get at least six foot cut in strokes without a dip...on base boards and crown forgetaboutit....that's where I got my nickname R......glasss.


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## bklynboy1970 (Oct 8, 2013)

bklynboy1970 said:


> You guys are missing the point of the whizz... & brush for cutting in....great trick less dipping just saying, I used to get at least six foot cut in strokes without a dip...on base boards and crown forgetaboutit....that's where I got my nickname R......glasss.


Thanks mandi ;-)


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

bklynboy1970 said:


> You guys are missing the point of the whizz... & brush for cutting in....great trick less dipping just saying, I get at least six foot cut in strokes without a dip...on base boards and crown forgetaboutit....that's where I got my nickname R......glasss.



It's a game changer all right. As many miles of trim I've painted with a brush only... Couldn't imagine going back to that now. The mini cage makes it too easy.


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## premierpainter (Apr 17, 2007)

Whizz is always in our guys hands. Roll it on and knock it down with a light hand on the brush. For those of you that only brush,you're missing out on a ton of time saved.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Whizz + Advanced satin = almost as smooth as sprayed.


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## McGregor (Nov 5, 2013)

What's this Whizz brand? I bought a 4" XL Purdy yesterday from you guys' suggestions, works awesome, but is it "the Whizz"?


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## McGregor (Nov 5, 2013)

This?

http://www.wayfair.com/Whizz-4-Premium-Foam-Paint-Roller-with-Handle-57600-WHZZ1002.html


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

This is the one I was referring to that makes Advanced look almost sprayed:


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## Pretty Handy Mandi (Oct 6, 2013)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> This is the one I was referring to that makes Advanced look almost sprayed:


For ultra smooth surfaces

This whizz is great! ! Here is my tip for the tip: I use TWO 4" whizz, one like above, and a nappy-er one, the white one with the blue line in the nap..... 

First, I use the nappy one, get the paint on, then a back roll with a dry whizz flock.


I only back roll with foam rollers, otherwise the application is not concise, the foam rollers are not good for actually putting the paint on IMO, and the finish on the one above is superior to foam alone.


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## spraytip (Jun 28, 2012)

slinger58 I'm in the Evansville area myself and am having the same problem with finding qualified help. I'm hearing this from most local contractors. "They want the check and then they go somewhere else."

Rick
www.rosepainting.org


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## spraytip (Jun 28, 2012)

driftweed said:


> Yes. Unfortunately I am at an impasse right now trying to find good help. Seems once I get em trained they go elsewhere. I am dying to expand into bathtub/countertop reglazing but until I get help I can't. Its frustrating because I spent $3k getting trained/setup to expand only to have my helper quit. I need a foreman asap.
> 
> I have to be fast, gotta finish the job before they quit haha




I'm in the Evansville area also and am having the same problem with help...Good luck.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Pretty Handy Mandi said:


> For ultra smooth surfaces
> 
> This whizz is great! ! Here is my tip for the tip: I use TWO 4" whizz, one like above, and a nappy-er one, the white one with the blue line in the nap.....
> 
> ...



That's what I was doing today. I actually like Wooster mini cage rollers better than whizz but the foam naps for the mini are hard to come by so I use the whizz.


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## brush slinger 303 (Mar 13, 2014)

Try using the small hand held graco sprayers it will double your workload speed and give you a better finish works awsome!!


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## brush slinger 303 (Mar 13, 2014)

Try using the small graco sprayers they work awsome and minimal overspray?


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> This is the one I was referring to that makes Advanced look almost sprayed:


Thanks bro. Just bought one. $7 for one freakin 6" whizz! Crap. Better be good. 
The mohair blends work really good too. Red nap, and green nap are good.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Damon T said:


> Thanks bro. Just bought one. $7 for one freakin 6" whizz! Crap. Better be good. The mohair blends work really good too. Red nap, and green nap are good.


Come on man, that's still cheaper than a table dance in Reno.


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## Krittterkare (Jul 12, 2013)

McGregor said:


> When I am not spraying, like in an occupied house, I use the roll and brush technique. I roll a whole side of a door, and then I hurry up and brush it out. I can often do the same for door frames and jams. This goes so much faster as I do not have to dip the brush into the cut pot, just roll on a lot of paint and then brush it out.
> 
> "This technique does not work for crown and base though, the roller is too big.
> 
> ...


Like others have said a 4" roller, if you are painting both the trim and walls I paint the trim first. Tape or shield the floor (carpet) and use the roller to apply the paint and crush it out afterward, thin the paint as needed to keep it wet until it is smoothed then tape and calk the trim when dry then roll the walls with no worries.

The video that was posted of the door being brushed is indeed fast but I will always pull out a small roller to do a door and what about painting multiple doors? The old saying about working smart and not hard can be put in to practice.

I never use a Whizz roller, just a regular 4" roller 1/2 to 3/4" Quality nap and the paint thinned properly.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> Come on man, that's still cheaper than a table dance in Reno.


I wouldn't know....


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Damon T said:


> I wouldn't know....


Why would you?


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

I knew it and i know it :blink:


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Ole34 said:


> I knew it and i know it :blink:



That mini rollers are the wave of the future? :jester:


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Jmayspaint said:


> That mini rollers are the wave of the future? :jester:


You mean like bye bye?:blink:


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## McGregor (Nov 5, 2013)

or just use a 1 1/2" sheepskin nap and a 4" brush to smooth it out, talk abot fast!...


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## Gin D. (Sep 22, 2012)

Hey guys (and gals)

Regarding all this talk about smooth results with rolling advanced. I've seen many on this forum get angry about the thought of rolling a door (without backbrushing), but if BM advance gets the sprayed look when backrolling with a whizz or mohair or foam, then is back brushing a regular, hollow 6-panel doors even necessary?

PS, SUGGESTIONS WELCOME. I have wainscoting coming up for the first time. Repaint. I don't have a sprayer and have only sprayed once, and it was spraying primer on bare walls heavy enough for someone to bacroll behind (obviously not the same kind of technique for spraying wainscoting). For this job I am either going to buy a sprayer (I was thinking HVLP as opposed to airless considering what I read through PDCA, as I will be using it mainly for trim, doors and wainscoting type stuff) and experiment with it using advanced. OR I was thinking just brush and roll. Cut in with ADVANCE then maybe roll with a 9" 1/4" nap mohair blend roller. From what I've heard it seems as though you have to put advance on so thin, that I would almost need to immediately back roll but DRYROLL. Not sure, hence I will experiment first. What do you guys think? And any recommendation on the ideal sprayer for this type of fancy work?

I only use BM. Didn't like aura for trim (hige baseboards it dried soooo quick). Regals nice, but from what I read about the amazing spray like leveling of advanced, I am looking to make the switch.


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## bklynboy1970 (Oct 8, 2013)

Gin D. said:


> Hey guys (and gals)
> 
> Regarding all this talk about smooth results with rolling advanced. I've seen many on this forum get angry about the thought of rolling a door (without backbrushing), but if BM advance gets the sprayed look when backrolling with a whizz or mohair or foam, then is back brushing a regular, hollow 6-panel doors even necessary?
> 
> ...


In painting it's all in the back stroke!!


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Gin D. said:


> Hey guys (and gals)
> 
> Regarding all this talk about smooth results with rolling advanced. I've seen many on this forum get angry about the thought of rolling a door (without backbrushing), but if BM advance gets the sprayed look when backrolling with a whizz or mohair or foam, then is back brushing a regular, hollow 6-panel doors even necessary?
> 
> ...



Forget the thin coat idea. You won't get the awesome leveling if you put it on too thin. The rep told me the same crap the first time I used it. So many people had complained about the runs, he just started telling people that. Advance is more p-r-o-n-e to run than other paints, but its not about the thickness. Inconsistencies in the wet film cause runs. It is easier to get a consistent coat If you put it on thin and brush the crap out of it, so in that sense a thin coat can help reduce runs. But like I said, applying too thin robs it of a lot of its leveling properties. 

With Advance one of the main reasons I like to roll and back brush is its easier to get a consistent, thick coat spread with the roller (microfiber), and a quick top off with the brush pulls it down just enough. I haven't really tried rolling only on a large scale. 

However you apply it, pay attention to the areas where paint tends to build up. Like the grooves in wainscot, or the inside edges of door panels. Leaving excess paint ( more than the thickness of the rest of the coat) in these areas will cause a run every time with Advance. 

These doors were rolled/brushed with Advance gloss. If you look close you can see brush strokes, but this is about the slickest looking coat I can get from any material by hand application. 


As far as spraying, I like it strait up with an airless. It's quite forgiving.


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## Krittterkare (Jul 12, 2013)

Gin D. said:


> Hey guys (and gals)
> 
> do you guys think? And any recommendation on the ideal sprayer for this type of fancy work?
> 
> ...


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## Pretty Handy Mandi (Oct 6, 2013)

bklynboy1970 said:


> In painting it's all in the back stroke!!


The back stroke gets All the nooks and crannies


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

slinger58 said:


> I guess maybe this is just an "age" thing, but I cannot imagine a situation where a roller would help me paint crown or base more efficiently than a brush. I understand the theory of less dips into the workpot, but that is a move that is almost negligible after this many years. It's all about the brush on the surface, not in the pot.



It's not for everyone, and I can see it being hard to imagine. 

Crown: http://youtu.be/5zC4BR4MkZs

Base: http://youtu.be/v1QFB4h3h3k


Advance takes a little more vigorous back brushing than most acrylics, and the open time allows for it.


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

It might be faster on baseboard, but it looks like that is taking you waaaayyy longer for the crown.


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## MSJ Painting (Jan 27, 2013)

Jmayspaint said:


> It's not for everyone, and I can see it being hard to imagine.
> 
> Crown: http://youtu.be/5zC4BR4MkZs
> 
> ...


I could have brushed that crown in half the time. Base at least the same amount of time. With less clean up to boot.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using PaintTalk.com mobile app


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Hines Painting said:


> It might be faster on baseboard, but it looks like that is taking you waaaayyy longer for the crown.



What would you figure production rates to be for that type of crown one coat?


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## SuperiorPainter (Feb 12, 2011)

Is the finish still smooth without the ripple effects?


Jmayspaint said:


> I find it helps me to paint better as well as faster simply because of the volume if paint you can apply quickly. It reduces brush strokes because you don't have to brush it as much. It's also conducive to a thicker mil coat.
> 
> I often do crown and wide base with it too.
> 4" microfiber.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

SuperiorPainter said:


> Is the finish still smooth without the ripple effects?


 
Buttery. Look at the door pics I posted earlier in the thread.


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

Jmayspaint said:


> What would you figure production rates to be for that type of crown one coat?



Not sure, but in the video it the roller doesn't appear to save you any time.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Hines Painting said:


> Not sure, but in the video it the roller doesn't appear to save you any time.



I'm not sure either. The vid is at about 120 ft per hr, with a little left over. I would be curious how that compares.


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

Jmayspaint said:


> I'm not sure either. The vid is at about 120 ft per hr, with a little left over. I would be curious how that compares.


Did you do the walls after the crown?


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Hines Painting said:


> Did you do the walls after the crown?



Yes, so that's only cutting one edge.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Jmayspaint said:


> It's not for everyone, and I can see it being hard to imagine.
> 
> Crown: http://youtu.be/5zC4BR4MkZs
> 
> ...


To each his own, Josh. I can match that speed with my brush.

One suggestion, if I may .......get some music that's more uptempo for faster production rates. Bluegrass would be my preference or some classic rock from the 60's and 70's.

:thumbup::thumbup:


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

slinger58 said:


> To each his own, Josh. I can match that speed with my brush.
> 
> One suggestion, if I may .......get some music that's more uptempo for faster production rates. Bluegrass would be my preference or some classic rock from the 60's and 70's.
> 
> :thumbup::thumbup:



Yeah, it's not all that fast. Doing it like that I would make it around the crown in that 16 by 18 room in about 32 min. It picks up a little on casings and base. 

When I added the music I wasn't really sure if you were technically allowed to use modern pop/rock music without permission, without violating some copy write laws, in what will eventually be advertising material. 
Figured I was safe from copy write infringement with Beethoven


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

MSJ Painting said:


> I could have brushed that crown in half the time. Base at least the same amount of time. With less clean up to boot.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I535 using PaintTalk.com mobile app



Thanks for the feedback. I would very much like to see 8" crown brushed at 240 ft per hr, or even 200. 

I bet Ole could do it, or close. BTW Ole I would like to watch your vid in this thread but its not available for mobile. I've watched some of your other ones, but can't access this one.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

Personally I think it's a waste of time to roll that type of crown, and if you've already masked to floor, why not brush the top edge of the base and roll the flats?

Sent from my SGH-T989D using Tapatalk


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

journeymanPainter said:


> Personally I think it's a waste of time to roll that type of crown, and if you've already masked to floor, why not brush the top edge of the base and roll the flats?
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T989D using Tapatalk



Using it on crown is just a continuation of the method. When I first started experimenting with the mini cages it was just for doors. Then I thought why not do the casings too, then base, crown, etc.. Now when I get set up to paint trim, unless its just a little bit, the roller gets used as much as possible. It's not just (or even primarily) about speed. I find it easier to archive thicker, more consistent coats using the roller to apply. 

Sure, as others have posted Advance does quite well just rolled. I just don't prefer the look in most cases, and haven't really experimented with it that much. 

Overall its a production and quality increaser for me, and for other painters I have talked to that have actually tried both methods.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Ole34 said:


> for the youngbucks who think they know it all .....LOOK !! it really is possible to paint with a brush... imagine that
> 
> epic move @2:22 ...........
> 
> http://youtu.be/5JRs7LuCEUk



Wow. Maybe I was onto something about the copyright thing. When I try to watch this vid through the iPhone app it just says its not available on mobile. 
But looking through a browser, the link is in red and when I click on it it says the video has been blocked because of copyright reasons.

Are others getting this?


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Jmayspaint said:


> Wow. Maybe I was onto something about the copyright thing. When I try to watch this vid through the iPhone app it just says its not available on mobile.
> But looking through a browser, the link is in red and when I click on it it says the video has been blocked because of copyright reasons.
> 
> Are others getting this?


 
works for me, although Blondie was a little annoying


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

chrisn said:


> works for me, although Blondie was a little annoying


Must just be a mobile thing. 

Music during the video?


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## Toolnut (Nov 23, 2012)

Clean up air pollution 
PLAY BLUEGRASS MUSIC


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Toolnut said:


> Clean up air pollution
> PLAY BLUEGRASS MUSIC


AND increase production rates. It's a win-win!


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Jmayspaint said:


> Must just be a mobile thing.
> 
> Music during the video?


I think it's just a mobile thing, Josh. It wouldn't play on my iphone, but no problem on the PC.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Jmayspaint said:


> Must just be a mobile thing.
> 
> Music during the video?


 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aH3Q_CZy968


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