# stain kill with white lacquer



## 007 Dave (Jun 22, 2016)

I got a call from a lady that she wanted me to look at her cabinets. She just paid another painter to paint them. She was complaining about the grain. I told her Its oak,thats just how oak cabinets look. She pointed out darker grain in spots. She said the painter used lacquer to paint them. She asked if I can make them look better.So I brought a cabinet door home and painted it with S.W. Pro Classic. And the grain looks like the stain is bleeding thru. I put a heavy coat on it and filled the grain with paint. The stain is still bleeding thru. 

I have not used white lacquer over stained cabinets So my question is When using white lacquer on pre finished stain cabinets do you still need to stain kill the stained wood so it doesn't bleed thru?

Thanks for your help


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## Chuck the painter (Sep 16, 2015)

Zinnser BIN cover stain or cover stain with shellac base first.

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## 007 Dave (Jun 22, 2016)

Chuck the painter said:


> Zinnser BIN cover stain or cover stain with shellac base first.
> 
> Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


Thanks Chuck. So are you thinking the first painter did not use stain Kill? I've painted tons of cabinets myself. I sand them. Prime with Kilz oil satin kill and finish with 2 coats of S.W. Pro Classic. I have to give a bid on these to fix them.


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## ThreeSistersPainting (Jan 7, 2017)

Have you ever tried Sherwins Easy Sand Primer? It's a little more pricey than kilz but builds up real nice and sands buttery smooth, fills in the grain quite well with 2 coats.


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## 007 Dave (Jun 22, 2016)

No I haven't. My sales rep was talking to me this past Friday about their oil primers. I've use Cover stain from time to time and I've used S.W. extreme bonding primer. 

I painted the cabinet door again and filled the grain and still bleeding. I feel bad for the lady. She just spent a ton of money on these cabinets and now she has to pay to get them painted right.


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## AngieM (Apr 13, 2016)

I've used easy sand primer a few times, especially on oak trim I'm painting white. While it does add some build, it won't completely fill the grain. The only way to do that is with wood filler. 

I had the same conversation with my customer so we'd be on the same page as far as expectations. The trim turned out beautifully, but you can definitely see the grain. 

Dave, if seems like the painter your customer used tried to skip the necessary but unpleasant step of the oil primer to seal the oak. She's probably seeing tannin bleed or the original stain showing through. 

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## Chuck the painter (Sep 16, 2015)

I use a brown Norton pad (scotch-brite) & 50/50 denatured alcohol & water. This sands and cleans in one step. Wipe with paper towels. Rags could have fabric softener in them & will contaminate your doors. I use zinsser, BIN cover stain and then scratch test it the next day. For paint I've had excellent luck with Behr water based alkyd of SW proclassic. Remember your top coat is only as good as your primer. 
I also recommend the doorackpainter system that lets you paint & flip your doors for faster coverage.

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## Chuck the painter (Sep 16, 2015)

Also... Most degreasers need to be wiped off with water or they will bleed through. I love krud-kutter for cleaning but it will come through a stain blocking primer & paint. Diluted denatured alcohol will clean and dry fast. I use it on Cabinets especially when restaining.

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## 007 Dave (Jun 22, 2016)

The only place the brown stain is bleeding through is the pitted grain. If he did use stain kill he sprayed a light coat on and it didn't get in the grain. from a distance the cabinets like beautiful, but up close you can see the brown. Before I do any more to this door I'm going to show her what it looks like when I just paint over it with out Stain kill , Then I'll get another door Stain kill it. and repaint it. Then I'll give her a quote. I am curious why she didn't have me at least give her an estimate on them. I did paint her exterior last year and I remember she asked me if I painted cabinets. Thanks to all that commented


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

I've seen that happen a few times even when stain blocker was used. One set of oak cabinets I had to prime twice with Bin and once with Coverstain before the brown stopped seeping up through the grain. 


It was weird too, you couldn't see the bleed through the primer coats. But when the finish was applied, it popped up. 

I think it has to do with the grain of oak being so open and deep. Kitchen grease soaks in deep over time and even cleaning the surface and sanding doesn't get it out. 




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## 007 Dave (Jun 22, 2016)

Thanks Jmays. It has to be frustrating. I wish I knew what the first painter used as a primer just for my knowledge. I asked her who did it but she didn't want to tell me. I didn't push her to hard to find out . I might have her call him and ask just so we do know.


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## ThreeSistersPainting (Jan 7, 2017)

You can always sand the top coat off and test primer layer with alcohol. If it comes off it's latex. There has been a lot of discussion on grain filling for cabinets this past week on here, must be the month of Oak.


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## Eatnkitties (Mar 5, 2017)

I've been trying to specialize in painted cabinetry and have had the exact same issue. And joined the forum to ask the same question. I've used SW pigmented shellac and have wondered iif its just not as good as binz. We roll it on with a wiz and really soak the grain and cracks. I want to start spraying the primer fkr a thicked coat but am worried it won't help.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

007 Dave said:


> I got a call from a lady that she wanted me to look at her cabinets. She just paid another painter to paint them. She was complaining about the grain. I told her Its oak,thats just how oak cabinets look. She pointed out darker grain in spots. She said the painter used lacquer to paint them. She asked if I can make them look better.So I brought a cabinet door home and painted it with S.W. Pro Classic. And the grain looks like the stain is bleeding thru. I put a heavy coat on it and filled the grain with paint. The stain is still bleeding thru.
> 
> I have not used white lacquer over stained cabinets So my question is When using white lacquer on pre finished stain cabinets do you still need to stain kill the stained wood so it doesn't bleed thru?
> 
> Thanks for your help


If it was painted with lacquer, then priming it would be a good idea regardless.
If Shellac doesn't stop the staining maybe you could convince her to change to a darker colour for the top coat..:vs_cool:


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Eatnkitties said:


> I've been trying to specialize in painted cabinetry and have had the exact same issue. And joined the forum to ask the same question. I've used SW pigmented shellac and have wondered iif its just not as good as binz. We roll it on with a wiz and really soak the grain and cracks. I want to start spraying the primer fkr a thicked coat but am worried it won't help.




I don't think it has to do with the quality of a certain brand of shellac, but just that shellac won't block certain kinds of stains. Certain oil stains I think. What solves the problem for me is to hit the bleed through spots with a spray can of Coverstain or Kilz. Or just use an oil primer to begin with. 

Here's an old thread with pics where we talked about this issue; 

http://www.painttalk.com/f2/stains-bleeding-through-bin-28511/




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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

From a moral point of view. I would tell this lady tough noogies.She had the chance to hire you, then had another guy come mess it up. I'd feel too much like a peasant giving her the pleasure of trying to correct whatever the other jackass did.. 
I don't have time for those type of people. Charge her tripple if you do..


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## Chuck the painter (Sep 16, 2015)

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## Chuck the painter (Sep 16, 2015)

You've really got to clean those surfaces well. My first cabinets I used krud- kutter but if you don't clean water wipe the residue off you'll have bleed through even with stain blocking primers.
As mentioned above I now use Norton pads and a mix of 50/50 denatured alcohol and water. This cleans, deglosses, & sands in one step. BIN cover stain in oil in my opinion is a great product. However, with our current VOC laws I've had to switch to the shellac based cover stain. 

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## 007 Dave (Jun 22, 2016)

I haven't had any trouble yet when I used oil Kilz. I haven't used any chemicals to clean them either. I sand the lacquer off, prime (with Kilz most of the time) and two coats of pro Classic.


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