# Sikkens going away



## paintpimp (Jun 29, 2007)

I brought it up over a year ago about Sikkens needing to get rid of the name. It finally happened.

http://www.perfectwoodstains.com/proluxe/

In a year or so the Sikkens name will be dropped along with cetol, rubbol trademark names. Formula has changed a few times over the last 15 years, last one a few years ago. 

The old, old (sickens) formula with some UV inhibitors is still available if you need. 

http://structureswoodcare.com/


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

Just re-labeling and changing the name to Pro-Luxe, from what I understand. No reformulations or discontinuations of any of their product line...yet.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Kind of dumb that they license the brand to Ppg but then make them change the name. The name is the brand.


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## Andyman (Feb 21, 2009)

Lots of changes going on with deck stains. Sherwin is dropping deckscapes, now sikkens. I've been very dissatisfied with deck stains lately so I'm looking to see somebody step up and produce a stain that last longer than one year.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Damon T said:


> Kind of dumb that they license the brand to Ppg but then make them change the name. The name is the brand.


Akzo Nobel didn't sell the name rights to PPG because they will still use the Sikkens name in Europe. Same as the Devoe name.

SW bought the group that owned Comex, but will only be able to use that name for a limited time in the US, as it will still be sold as Comex by the old company in Mexico and south America. Oddly enough, some of the Comex products will be made in SW owned and operated plants.

Beginning to sound a lot like the auto industry isn't it.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Andyman said:


> Lots of changes going on with deck stains. Sherwin is dropping deckscapes, now sikkens. I've been very dissatisfied with deck stains lately so I'm looking to see somebody step up and produce a stain that last longer than one year.


If you have a source for California Storm System stains I would give them a try. Rather than just try to modify existing products to meet voc limits, Cali developed their new stain lines from scratch.

Basically most product lines just had their solids bumped up with little or no upgrading of the binder. Less binder by volume means less durability and decreased adhesion.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

TWP 100 :yes:


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

Storm Stain is awesome for acrylic stain


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Rbriggs82 said:


> TWP 100 :yes:


 Who makes this btw? Is it made by Gemini Coatings in Oklahoma?


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Proalliance coatings said:


> Who makes this btw? Is it made by Gemini Coatings in Oklahoma?


Yes Gemini.


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## JourneymanBrian (Mar 16, 2015)

Sikkens Rubbol is good stuff, especially the water based ones. Use it fairly often.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

Proalliance coatings said:


> If you have a source for California Storm System stains I would give them a try. Rather than just try to modify existing products to meet voc limits, Cali developed their new stain lines from scratch.
> 
> Basically most product lines just had their solids bumped up with little or no upgrading of the binder. Less binder by volume means less durability and decreased adhesion.


I have not used them a lot, but have been very impressed with this product.


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

I'm hoping to give TWP and Penofin a try this year. SRD was okay before it went WB.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

Andyman said:


> Lots of changes going on with deck stains. Sherwin is dropping deckscapes, now sikkens. I've been very dissatisfied with deck stains lately so I'm looking to see somebody step up and produce a stain that last longer than one year.


Flood UV5 is good stuff (only been 8 months since I've applied it)but the water still beads off of it like I did it last week


Proalliance coatings said:


> Akzo Nobel didn't sell the name rights to PPG because they will still use the Sikkens name in Europe. Same as the Devoe name.
> 
> SW bought the group that owned Comex, but will only be able to use that name for a limited time in the US, as it will still be sold as Comex by the old company in Mexico and south America. Oddly enough, some of the Comex products will be made in SW owned and operated plants.
> 
> Beginning to sound a lot like the auto industry isn't it.


I believe PPG bought all of devoe, and they bought Comex Mexico, and I think what reaches into south America. I posted a link about 10 months ago about the PPG takeover. With Sherwin buying Comex up here in Canada so far all the general paint stores are closing as the leases expire and some stores are merging into one.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

Andyman said:


> Lots of changes going on with deck stains. Sherwin is dropping deckscapes, now sikkens. I've been very dissatisfied with deck stains lately so I'm looking to see somebody step up and produce a stain that last longer than one year.



Armstrong Clark. Best deck stain IMO. Followed by TWP. There, ya got yer wish.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

PRC said:


> I'm hoping to give TWP and Penofin a try this year. SRD was okay before it went WB.



Penofin is notorious for turning black within a year. Black and moldy.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

journeymanPainter said:


> Flood UV5 is good stuff (only been 8 months since I've applied it)but the water still beads off of it like I did it last week
> 
> I believe PPG bought all of devoe, and they bought Comex Mexico, and I think what reaches into south America. I posted a link about 10 months ago about the PPG takeover. With Sherwin buying Comex up here in Canada so far all the general paint stores are closing as the leases expire and some stores are merging into one.


 Like i said, just like the auto industry. Hard to keep track of who makes what and where.


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## Andyman (Feb 21, 2009)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> Armstrong Clark. Best deck stain IMO. Followed by TWP. There, ya got yer wish.



Ya the Armstrong is what pressure pro recommend also but I don't like having to order and ship the product. But I guess if it's that good then I should order some and try it.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Yes Gemini.


I have a supplier for that. I may have to look into carrying it. I've read a lot of good comments on it here. I've sold Gemini lacquers before and was always impressed with the value and quality they were in their price range.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

I'm curious if anyone's given the newest iteration of Arborcoat a chance. It's a water-dispersed alkyd (like Advance), but also has a urethane component. It soaks into wood like a traditional oil, rather than sitting on top like a latex. I'm trying to decide if I should bring it in, but I want to know it performs, first.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Woodford said:


> I'm curious if anyone's given the newest iteration of Arborcoat a chance. It's a water-dispersed alkyd (like Advance), but also has a urethane component. It soaks into wood like a traditional oil, rather than sitting on top like a latex. I'm trying to decide if I should bring it in, but I want to know it performs, first.


If it's not a true oil like TWP or Armstrong Clark I doubt it's any good. Might look grewt on the initial application but recoating it later on down the road is my concern. Does it build film? If so striping and recoating is a nightmare.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Woodford said:


> I'm curious if anyone's given the newest iteration of Arborcoat a chance. It's a water-dispersed alkyd (like Advance), but also has a urethane component. It soaks into wood like a traditional oil, rather than sitting on top like a latex. I'm trying to decide if I should bring it in, but I want to know it performs, first.


 Are they still trying to go with a topcoat system?


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Rbriggs82 said:


> If it's not a true oil like TWP or Armstrong Clark I doubt it's any good. Might look grewt on the initial application but recoating it later on down the road is my concern. Does it build film? If so striping and recoating is a nightmare.


There's no film thickness to it. It's a hybrid the same way Advance is- "true oil" but water dispersed for clean-up, with a urethane component (only for the translucent). It soaks into the wood like a traditional oil- at least for the most part. The solid and the semi-solid build a film (obviously) of about 1.5 mils.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Proalliance coatings said:


> Are they still trying to go with a topcoat system?


Unfortunately yes, on the Transparent and Semi-Transparent. I have a feeling that's gonna be a pretty big turn-off to contractor customers just because of the time factor. Wish they'd get their stain lines straightened out, I feel like they (and most of the industry) are in a really crappy place with regards to stains. Everyone's trying to replace traditional oils, but nothing is _quite_ there yet. I think the newest Arborcoat may be there as far as durability/protection goes, but it's just a PITA because of the clear coat. I guess the only nice thing is that you can use the clear coat alone as a "refresher" coat rather than needing to go back on with the stain and then do another clear coat.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

The urethane component scares me. It's something I'd have to try let it weather and recoat before I could form an opinion. If the semi trans is film forming I'm out. :yes:


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

There is, however, the Arborcoat Translucent, which is a minimal/zero build thickness and no clear coat required. If it's durable and it looks decent, it would be the workhorse of my stain department. Now that I think about it, I believe it's the only one with a urethane component right now.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Rbriggs82 said:


> The urethane component scares me. It's something I'd have to try let it weather and recoat before I could form an opinion. If the semi trans is film forming I'm out. :yes:


No film (listed as "minimal" in tech data sheet) on the semi trans. Only the semi-solid and solid.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

So, in summary, there's:

Translucent, no film build, no clear coat
Transparent and Semi-transparent, no film build, requires clear coat
Solid and Semi-solid, 1.5 mil DFT, no clear coat


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

There's also an Arborcoat "Classic Oil" and they have a line of just "Exterior Stain: Deck & Siding". I couldn't tell you the difference between those two. Have yet to work with either of the products.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

What's the clear coat for and do you have to strip it off before restaining in a couple years? Seems like an extra unnecessary step when I could just do a wet on wet coat of TWP and be done with it.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

The clear coat helps with abrasion resistance and durability, as well as additional UV protection. 

I'm really not sold on the clear coat idea, if you can't tell. It's actually 100% acrylic, though it somehow doesn't build a film (again, listed as "minimal"). I'm just... very not crazy about the system. 

According to the tech data sheet (which I had to look at, because I had no idea) you can put the stain on over siding that was previously stained with it after cleaning, but for decks it recommends completely removing the prior coating with sanding or their finish remover product.

I can't say I particularly disagree- I think it sounds like a pain in the ass to clear coat (though the wait is only about 1 hour, or a bit more depending on weather). Having to worry about 2 products instead of 1 is a pain. 

If I did decide to go with the Arborcoat alkyd/acrylic line, like I said before, I'd probably push the translucent more than anything else since it's no clear coat needed, but still gives the look people want.


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