# SW 200 vs 400?



## CNQ

Hi guys! I'm currently using SW Promar 400 on all my new construction projects. No complaints with it. Covers well, touches up nicely, its priced low etc. I'm thinking of using SW Promar 200 on a new project with higher end homes. Any advice? My SW store told me the 200 has a slight sheen compared to the 400 so touch ups might show and that it picture frames. Anyone try the 200 with one prime and one finish? Does it touch up good? Does it flash? The 400 finish is chalk flat so touch ups disappear. Any advice would be helpful.

Thanks in advance!!


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## painttofish

ugh!


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## painttofish

CNQ said:


> I'm thinking of using SW Promar 200 on a new project with higher end homes. :no: Any advice? My SW store told me the 200 has a slight sheen compared to the 400 so touch ups might show and that it picture frames. :yes: Anyone try the 200 with one prime and one finish? :blink: Does it touch up good? :no: Does it flash?:yes:


C'mon.... One finish coat of 200 over primer????


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## johnthepainter

yes, 200 is not very good, and 400 is a bit worse. this is a good fit for most new construction, possibly even chb for better touch ups.


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## NCPaint1

NO no and NO. Stay with the 400 for sure. 

Why would there even be a need to switch on the higher end homes? Are they paying more for the work to justify using a better product? Do you want to offer a more durable finish? Or are they using custom colors that you cant get made in 400? My question is, if what you are doing/using now is working fine....why change? 

Thats right, a BM guy knows a thing or two about SW products


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## johnthepainter

400 for high end homes? thats some funny stuff.


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## painttofish

NCPaint1 said:


> NO no and NO. Stay with the 400 for sure.
> 
> Why would there even be a need to switch on the higher end homes? Are they paying more for the work to justify using a better product? Do you want to offer a more durable finish? Or are they using custom colors that you cant get made in 400? My question is, if what you are doing/using now is working fine....why change?
> 
> Thats right, a BM guy knows a thing or two about SW products


Really? Am I missing the sarcasm or are you serious? 400 on high end homes is your recommendation?


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## Rcon

CNQ said:


> Hi guys! I'm currently using SW Promar 400 on all my new construction projects. No complaints with it. Covers well, touches up nicely, its priced low etc. I'm thinking of using SW Promar 200 on a new project with higher end homes. Any advice? My SW store told me the 200 has a slight sheen compared to the 400 so touch ups might show and that it picture frames. Anyone try the 200 with one prime and one finish? Does it touch up good? Does it flash? The 400 finish is chalk flat so touch ups disappear. Any advice would be helpful.
> 
> Thanks in advance!!


I don't know SW Paints as we have no SW here, but am I correct in assuming that you are switching to a lesser quality paint for higher end homes? WTF? Isn't that a little bass-ackwards?


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## painttofish

No, he is switching to a small upgrade in paint but not suitable IMO for a custom home. 200 is a commercial product IMO.


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## NCPaint1

The thing about 400 is that its dead flat or just about. 200 would be fine for walls but I would personally keep the 400 on ceilings.


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## johnthepainter

high end in the shwms line would be cashmere, or duration home,,,,,imo 200 would be better suited for tract homes and 400 for the projects


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## painttofish

NCPaint1 said:


> The thing about 400 is that its dead flat or just about. 200 would be fine for walls but I would personally keep the 400 on ceilings.


Well sure 400 is fine for ceilings? I could tint my sh!t white and roll it on my ceiling and be happy with the results?? Maybe not the smell......


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## NCPaint1

painttofish said:


> Really? Am I missing the sarcasm or are you serious? 400 on high end homes is your recommendation?


New Construction.........Unless its a spec home, around my area its the cheapest of the cheap as far as products used. 400 or equivalent isnt uncommon being used.


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## slapiton

I'm doing a 11,000 sq ft custom home right now and I have a coat of primer on everything and I am putting 1 coat of CHB on ceilings, 2 coats of Duration Home Matte on walls, and 2 coats of Pro Classic on Trim. I do use 200 on all my other projects though and have never had any problems.


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## aaron61

slapiton said:


> I'm doing a 11,000 sq ft custom home right now and I have a coat of primer on everything and I am putting 1 coat of CHB on ceilings, 2 coats of Duration Home Matte on walls, and 2 coats of Pro Classic on Trim. I do use 200 on all my other projects though and have never had any problems.


Ceilings:Master Hide/Walls:200/Trim Super Paint or PC


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## johnthepainter

NCPaint1 said:


> New Construction.........Unless its a spec home, around my area its the cheapest of the cheap as far as products used. 400 or equivalent isnt uncommon being used.


maybe the phrase "high end" has different meanings to people.

to me it means higher quality materials, finer finishes, better fit and finish. better attention to detail.

although i have seen very nice custom high end homes painted with builder grade paints, i prefer to use best in class materials for fine homes.

and i agree, the cheapest flats (chb, etc) are best in class for lids.


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## PaintinNC

In my market 400 is almost strictly a ceiling paint, 200 flat and Egshel dominate the market....... as far as using better paint in "higher end" homes, at least around here, it is not always a no brainer. Most of the very expensive homes here are 2nd, 3rd or even 4th homes for very rich people........ maybe lived in a weekend or 3 a year, no traffic in or out. A LOT of contractors use a SW product called Optimus in them, literally the cheapest flat we have.


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## johnthepainter

very odd, the cheapest paint in the finest houses?

what kind of hacks do that?


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## johnthepainter

oh thats right,,,,,we are talking about the new construction rat race.

thats why i prefer to let the new construction guys screw em up, and the customers call me to doll em up.

i like it this way.


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## TaHart1986

aaron61 said:


> Ceilings:Master Hide/Walls:200/Trim Super Paint or PC


This is what I like to use as well. The master hide does the ceilings fine. 200 is good but in a higher end home we tend to use better paints. PC is one of my favs. for trim


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## Builtmany

200 flat touches up OK but you say higher end homes so in that case eggshell 200 does not touch up at all without looking like a$$. IMO there are better paints for new construction. PM 400 is a OK product in flat for new const. but their MasterHide is less $$ and works as well if not better so I never use the 400.


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## CNQ

Thanks for all the replies guys. And thanks alot NCPaint1! You do know the SW products pretty good. Yes, here in Toronto, builders spec 1 primer and 1 finish coat. Thats it. And its all flat too! This particular project is another contract for me from a builder I've worked for many years. By high end I mean big expensive homes. Its a subdivision, starting price is 1.5 million, smallest house is 6,000 sqft. And there sold out! So the whole production thing just got even faster. Builders want there money just like us.

Thanks again guys!


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## DeanV

I just do not get the crap paint, 1 coat primer, one coat flat on high end homes. That is just plain garbage. It is the GC's fault for specifying that way, but just shows that high end does not mean quality in some areas. I would use better materials than that on a $120,000 new construction home.


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## painttofish

CNQ said:


> Thanks for all the replies guys. And thanks alot NCPaint1! You do know the SW products pretty good. Yes, here in Toronto, builders spec 1 primer and 1 finish coat. Thats it. And its all flat too!
> 
> That is retarded.
> 
> This particular project is another contract for me from a builder I've worked for many years. By high end I mean big expensive homes. Its a subdivision, starting price is 1.5 million, smallest house is 6,000 sqft. And there sold out! _*So the whole production thing just got even faster.*_
> 
> _*So the whole quality thing should get better..........*_
> 
> 
> Thanks again guys!
> Anytime


.................


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## johnthepainter

how bizarre

expensive homes with low quality finishes.

now i know why they call me after a few years.


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## NCPaint1

high fibre said:


> how bizarre
> 
> expensive homes with low quality finishes.
> 
> now i know why they call me after a few years.


For the most part, in NC thats what I see the most. On the rare occasion someone will go all out with high end finishes and custom colors. Usually the cheaper flat finishes are used though. Mostly for touch up purposes. After the first year the homeowners have the painter come back and fix any cracks and nail pops. Usually within the first 5 years the home gets repainted anyways.


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## johnthepainter

this keeps my busy, i like it.

i would advise any new guy to do some new construction, build up your name, and get out. 

focus on fixing these finishes. 

the ladies love it.


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## DeanV

I suppose if the home is built as a non-custom home, I could possibly see some of the reasoning behind these finish choices.

My new home work are custom homes, so maybe that is the difference.


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## johnthepainter

yep, i understand the reasoning behind cheap flat on walls

particularly if there are a bunch of other trades screwing up the walls, and electricians fishing wires the day before move in

and top that off with the average gc that doesnt think you should be compensated for the extra work.

back in the day i patched 12 can light holes and the gc was shocked i billed him for it,,,lol.


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## NCPaint1

high fibre said:


> yep, i understand the reasoning behind cheap flat on walls
> 
> particularly if there are a bunch of other trades screwing up the walls, and electricians fishing wires the day before move in
> 
> and top that off with the average gc that doesnt think you should be compensated for the extra work.
> 
> back in the day i patched 12 can light holes and the gc was shocked i billed him for it,,,lol.


Exactly. I couldnt tell you how many times i've been in a new home and seen the amount of "touch up" work. I swear, electricians rub their hands in dirt, then proceed to touch everywhere around the wall and ceiling other than the fixture they're working on.


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## Rcon

NCPaint1 said:


> Exactly. I couldnt tell you how many times i've been in a new home and seen the amount of "touch up" work. I swear, electricians rub their hands in dirt, then proceed to touch everywhere around the wall and ceiling other than the fixture they're working on.


You're telling me! I can't count the number of houses that I had to send an entire crew back to for 2, sometimes 3 days just for touch ups from dirty hands electricians, plumbers, tile setters and carpenters.


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## friskypainter

CNQ said:


> Hi guys! I'm currently using SW Promar 400 on all my new construction projects. No complaints with it. Covers well, touches up nicely, its priced low etc. I'm thinking of using SW Promar 200 on a new project with higher end homes. Any advice? My SW store told me the 200 has a slight sheen compared to the 400 so touch ups might show and that it picture frames. Anyone try the 200 with one prime and one finish? Does it touch up good? Does it flash? The 400 finish is chalk flat so touch ups disappear. Any advice would be helpful.
> 
> Thanks in advance!!


I used Promar 200 last fall because I had to. It involved touch ups and feathering walls out about 8 foot up from the baseboard. It truly was the worst chalk water paint I have ever used. It dried instantly on the old version of itself and caked up like the surface of the moon. You would have thought I did a knock down finish. Pass on this crap. It's horrible.

frisky
frisky


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## capitalcity painting

Most people around here have fallen in love with Sher-scrub which I think sucks but I think all NC is a pain. They are building a house right down the street from me in my neighborhood and I didnt even bid it. The guys around here that say they make money on NC are lying to themselves.(all except one that does higher end)


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## johnthepainter

what cracks me up>>>>

in another thread, a mod here (arch) suggested that behr wasnt paint (said somthing like " and i suppose you think behr is paint?)

yet we have pros here that proudly use 200?????

oh thats right, just because it comes from sw its a pro quality paint, huh???

i just jammed out a bunch of trim with behr ultra sg, and it was much better than most materials at sherwin williams. looked great went on like a dream. 

just because it comes from sw or bm doesnt make it great. 200 is crappy paint, behr ultra sg is a great trim paint. (i refuse to use oil)


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## johnthepainter

pile on


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## DeanV

I do not think I will join the Behr Bandwagon yet, but I am complete agreement about painters who think the ProMars or Super____ lines from BM are for anything other than ceilings or apartment repaints.


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## johnthepainter

im not really on the behr bandwagon (although its fun on a pro forum) but i am on a good paint from whoever makes it bandwagon


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## jack pauhl

200 is 0-2 units @ 85°
400 is 0-5 units @ 85°


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## johnthepainter

finally, a breath of fresh air.

preach on paul.


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## Msargent

400 is junk doesnt cover and waste of money.The products I use I use because I stake my name and reputation to every paint job if you did and cared about your work I am betting more would use different products than they currently do.


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## Msargent

Hey jack next time you do a blog painting for dummies please drop your ceiling light cans down unless you dont of course, And if thats the case why take off outlet covers paint around them as well.Course thats my 2 cents take it for what its worth you probably have been painting long before I have.:thumbup:


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## johnthepainter

he did it so fast you didnt see him.


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## Rick the painter

The 400 touches up so well because its so damm thin theres hardly any film to flash lol.


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## johnthepainter

its a quality paint

they sell it at sherwin williams


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## aaron61

I like to cut my 400 by 50% therefore creating 800.Its great for ceilings


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## Workaholic

aaron61 said:


> I like to cut my 400 by 50% therefore creating 800.Its great for ceilings


:laughing:


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## PaintinNC

DeanV said:


> I do not think I will join the Behr Bandwagon yet, but I am complete agreement about painters who think the ProMars or Super____ lines from BM are for anything other than ceilings or apartment repaints.



200 is a good grade commercial paint, does it get into high end residential homes, sure it does. I have sold it for many years with few complaints, 200 Egshel is a great new construction product. If people use a proper primer and two finish coats like they were supposed to then there would be fewer complaints.


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## johnthepainter

quit covering for 200, its crappy paint.


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## johnthepainter

aaron61 said:


> I like to cut my 400 by 50% therefore creating 800.Its great for ceilings


aron, dont laugh,,,,they make promar 700


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## PaintinNC

high fibre said:


> quit covering for 200, its crappy paint.


200 covers fine for itself...........sorry that was corny, :jester: If it is sooooo crappy why do we sell sooooo much of it?


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## Rcon

PaintinNC said:


> 200 covers fine for itself...........sorry that was corny, :jester: *If it is sooooo crappy why do we sell sooooo much of it*?


Is it really cheap?


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## jack pauhl

Msargent said:


> Hey jack next time you do a blog painting for dummies please drop your ceiling light cans down unless you dont of course, And if thats the case why take off outlet covers paint around them as well.Course thats my 2 cents take it for what its worth you probably have been painting long before I have.:thumbup:


Teach me something.


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## PaintinNC

It depends on your market and what it can bear, Flat in the high teens Egshel in the low 20's and s/g in the mid twenties, just on average, maybe more or less depending on your part of the country.

And for people who dog it, I have used almost every line from my company at least once (bedroom, bathroom, ect.) and 200 egshel is one of my favorites. just my opinion.


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## johnthepainter

PaintinNC said:


> 200 covers fine for itself...........sorry that was corny, :jester: If it is sooooo crappy why do we sell sooooo much of it?


 
mcdonalds sells sooooo many mcnuggets toooooo.

soooooo those must be high quality.


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## aaron61

high fibre said:


> aron, dont laugh,,,,they make promar 700


I know have used it!


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## aaron61

PaintinNC said:


> It depends on your market and what it can bear, Flat in the high teens Egshel in the low 20's and s/g in the mid twenties, just on average, maybe more or less depending on your part of the country.
> 
> And for people who dog it, I have used almost every line from my company at least once (bedroom, bathroom, ect.) and 200 egshel is one of my favorites. just my opinion.


We use it almost exclusively.Was using Super Paint and still doing 2 coats so why bother?? We have never had any problems with touch up or anything else.I'm not sure what you paint nazi's are complaining about.


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## johnthepainter

im overthinking this stuff.


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