# Epoxy Floor Peeling/Partial mix for touch up



## Masters Tile & Paint (Dec 30, 2009)

Hey guys, 

I installed some H&C Epoxy (Water Based) on a 2 & 1/2 car garage floor about six/seven weeks ago with flakes on top without sealer over top of epoxy. There were quite a few oil spots which I successfully scrubbed up with degreaser and I made sure to acid etch the floor very well and rinsed thoroughly. However I do have a small amount of hot tire pickup that has occurred, ironically enough it has occurred nowhere near the tougher areas to clean. The pickup is in about three small half dollar sized pops. 

The sherwin-williams contractor rep came by and looked at it and said I didn't do anything wrong, that with the hot tire mixed with it being the latex it happens a lot. The question I have is if I get another kit, does the WHOLE thing have to be mixed? Or have any of you all been successful at properly mixing at a much lighter ratio to be able to leave some for later touch ups? I hate to mix up a whole kit just for the small spots.

Thanks.


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## painter213 (Nov 5, 2008)

Just get you some graduated cups and mix what you need and make sure to mix at the correct ratio. Next time though, use a real epoxy. The water base epoxies are great for masonry walls but suck on floors as you can see. Should be against the law.


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## Masters Tile & Paint (Dec 30, 2009)

I hear that. I will definitely not ever be using a water based again. 


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

Being water-base is not the problem, its your prep. Acid-etching is a no-no in garage floor product application. I know, the directions tell you to do it. Acid-etching will not give you the correct profile for floor coatings, plus if you don't triple rinse, you leave residue behind which will keep products from adhering. Best to grind, always. Most res-repaint guys like myself shy away from these jobs, even though they are pretty easy once you get the hang of it. Also, I believe no clear coat hurt your chances at better success this time.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

I think acid etching is fine....as long as the concrete is rough finished or already has a roughened profile. Worthless on a smooth pad.


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## painter213 (Nov 5, 2008)

Back in the day I used acid etching plenty of times and when done right can be a good way to prep for thin film coatings. None of my jobs ever failed. They had vehicle and fork truck traffic all day long. I used solvent based epoxies back then and my first coat I'd reduce 50%. Let it soak into the concrete. Next two coats was applied at full strength with no reduction. You have to have some type of penetration into the concrete surface. If not, then any coating will fail if it's just sitting on top of the surface. When we do adhesion testing, I want to see substrate failure. But again, water based epoxies does not have the needed physicals for garage floors. Especially to withstand hot tires. Prep will not keep a weak coating from failure when the coating cannot withstand the service conditions.


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## Masters Tile & Paint (Dec 30, 2009)

Definitely should have done the clear coat to help. I did definitely triple rinse the floor until the slurry was completely gone and no more foaming was occurring. 

Fortunately this one isn't a huge failure, they have been driving a suburban and maxima in and out multiple times a day for about six weeks and the three spots are it so far, and are isolated within the same tires profile. Hopefully just a contaminate that didn't get removed before application. I'm just hopeful that it doesn't continue. 

My shoulder definitely was not a fan of the push/pull application of that super thick latex. 


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

We do a ton of garage floors.You MUST explain to the customer,good,better,best coatings. If they want to go with a waterborne so be it. We will not warranty against hot tire pick up and we always advise that they then use parking mats.
That being said,yes you will have to buy a whole kit,mix a little and touch it up. It probably won't match either


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

Jmayspaint said:


> I think acid etching is fine....as long as the concrete is rough finished or already has a roughened profile. Worthless on a smooth pad.


Don't you have to neutralize the acid after etching? Could not neutralizing be the reason some of the paint has failed?


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## Masters Tile & Paint (Dec 30, 2009)

Absolutely. Hence the triple rinse with my pressure washer to ensure no acid remained. 


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## painter213 (Nov 5, 2008)

It's a good idea to sprinkle baking soda on the floor to help neutralize the acid but with three good rinse downs you should have been good. It's a good idea to check areas with a PH meter or PH paper to insure that the PH is good. A reading of 9-12 is acceptable in most cases. If it's lower then there's a good chance that the acid is not removed well enough a more rinsing is needed.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

From most of the specs I've read, Solvent borne cold applied thermo set epoxies, can tolerate up to 250-300 degrees F. How hot do tires get?

I've found PPG's WB Aqua Pon to perform really well over acid washed concrete with a subsequent water rinse for neutralization. I've yet to have a vehicle drive on it however. Aqua Pon Really holds up well on interior conditions that may have moderate chemical exposure. Although, I've found nitric acid to discolor the clear AP epoxy top coat in the last system I used.


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

CApainter said:


> From most of the specs I've read, Solvent borne cold applied thermo set epoxies, can tolerate up to 250-300 degrees F. How hot do tires get?


A thermoset epoxy coating wouldn't work on a garage floor - that type of coating cures by heat and needs to be baked - hence, thermoset.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

We have had good results using wb epoxy with a urethane topcoat. Without something like rexthane over top it doesn't last very long.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Rcon said:


> A thermoset epoxy coating wouldn't work on a garage floor - that type of coating cures by heat and needs to be baked - hence, thermoset.


From my understanding, thermoset plastic is a generic term for a plastic type material that cures through a chemical reaction, creating heat while it goes through the conversion process. Like epoxies for instance. These materials can never be returned to their original forms by heating, where as thermo plastics can.


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## painter213 (Nov 5, 2008)

You are wrong Rcon. A thermoset coating cures by a chemical reaction between two or more components. There is no external heat required. There is however some slight to extreme exothermic heat that is generated by the chemical reaction taking place though, depending on the product formulation.


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

painter213 said:


> You are wrong Rcon. A thermoset coating cures by a chemical reaction between two or more components. There is no external heat required. There is however some slight to extreme exothermic heat that is generated by the chemical reaction taking place though, depending on the product formulation.


Sorry brother, you're referring to a catalytic or reactive coating - those that cure through chemical reaction requiring a catalyst. 

A thermoset coating requires heat to cure, I quote directly from the MPI: 



> Thermoset - Requires heat to reach full cure. A good example is amino modified alkyd baking enamels used on metal furniture. Heat is required to initiate and speed up the chemical cross-linking between the amino reactive group and the free hydroxyls available on the alkyd.





> Catalytic or Reactive - A catalytic coating requires the addition of a curing agent or catalyst just prior to application. Catalytic paints tend to have a fixed amount of time to be used, or “pot-life.” Good examples are epoxies, two component polyurethanes, polyester - peroxides, etc. Moisture curing polyurethanes (ASTM Type II) could be considered reactive as free moisture in the air catalyzes the polymer into curing.


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

CApainter said:


> From my understanding, thermoset plastic is a generic term for a plastic type material that cures through a chemical reaction, creating heat while it goes through the conversion process. Like epoxies for instance. These materials can never be returned to their original forms by heating, where as thermo plastics can.


I'm not familiar with the term "thermoset plastic". 

If you mean "thermoplastic", then that type of coating is described as one that cures by evaporation and remains soluble by its original solvent. An example would be nitrocellulose lacquer, or shellac.


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## painter213 (Nov 5, 2008)

Beg to differ Rcon. A epoxy is a thermoset coating and it takes no heat to cure. Polyurea is another thermoset coating and it does not take heat to cure. Both do generate exothermic heat from the chemical reaction and neither of them uses a catylist. Polyurethanes such as polyurethane foam contains a catalyst to aid in the speed of the reaction rate and the catalyst is carried in the B side component instead of the A side component. I think your confusing the term Activator for catalyst. There is a big difference between the two.


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## painter213 (Nov 5, 2008)

Also, a thermosetting coating chemically crosslinks as it cures forming a durable coating.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Rcon said:


> I'm not familiar with the term "thermoset plastic".
> 
> If you mean "thermoplastic", then that type of coating is described as one that cures by evaporation and remains soluble by its original solvent. An example would be nitrocellulose lacquer, or shellac.


That's correct. Thermoplastics do not undergo the chemical chain reaction that a thermoset material like an epoxy coating does. From my understanding, thermosets can be heat cured, like powder coatings, or simply generate heat during the curing process of a two component material. 

There's really a lot more to it then what I'm aware of. But, the terms used to describe the differences between a coalescing and conversion coating are thermoplastic and thermoset.


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## painter213 (Nov 5, 2008)

Powder coatings can be either one. Thermoplastic or Thermoset. Depends on the chemistry of the powders. The Thermoplastic only reacts to the heat and the Thermoset powders melt with the heat and then chemically reacts to a activator in the powder so as to chemically cross link and form a hard durable chemical resistant coating.


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