# Painting over brick



## PremierPropertySvcs

Hey guys, 

New to the boards here and am looking for some advice or suggestions on how to attack this wall. 

I'm not much of a painter, mainly power wash and contract cleaning. 

The paint has began to flake and bubble. I'll be prepping the surface using a powerwashing to remove the loose paint and then clean the surface with a TSP and Sodium Hydrochloride. Then......is where I'm stuck.

I need to talk to a painter. Do I prime it or just paint over it? Spray or Roll?

It is about 15 feet high. 

How would you tackle this?










I appreciate any feedback. :thumbsup:

Andy


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## Mp3

Sherwin Williams has a product for that, I forget what it's called exactly but it seemed to work really well. We used it to paint a chimney.


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## TJ Paint

Hire a pro.


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## chrisn

:thumbsup::notworthy:


TJ Paint said:


> Hire a pro.


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## Last Craftsman

PremierPropertySvcs said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> New to the boards here and am looking for some advice or suggestions on how to attack this wall.
> 
> I'm not much of a painter, mainly power wash and contract cleaning.


Hi Andy. Appreciate your straight forward approach regarding your lack of experience in the painting trade.

A lot of people come on here trying to b*llsh*t us to squeeze info from us.

Your honesty means you are a stand up guy.

So respectfully, I'll let you know that the format of this forum is for experienced professional painters, or people involved directly in a major capacity with a paint contracting business. The definition is loose depending on which member is being asked, but generally means people who are committed full time to painting as their income be they greenhorns, or master painters, or contractors. Of course there are a couple exceptions.

You might not get a lot of feedback here, because it seems like you don't fit the criteria of the forums.

In any case, your honesty is appreciated.


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## bikerboy

The paint appears to be failing mainly at the joints. If possible, I'd find out what if anything was added to the mortar. Or if there is a leak that is being wicked up by the joints. 

Find the problem, then figure the solution.


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## TJ Paint

Its hard to discern, but it looks like there is effervescence on some of the exposed brick. This means moisture. It doesn't look like the coating has bonded well to the substrate either. Its hard to determine the problem from this picture alone. It could be a combination of problems, partly application, partly structural. Its really impossible to say, even If I wanted to help.


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## nEighter

bikerboy said:


> The paint appears to be failing mainly at the joints. If possible, I'd find out what if anything was added to the mortar. Or if there is a leak that is being wicked up by the joints.
> 
> Find the problem, then figure the solution.


like PH was way outta whack.. or surface salt buidup


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## Mantis

It probably just wasnt properly prepped the first time it was painted. I bet it sat unfinished for years and some handyman just slapped a couple coats of behr on it without cleaning it. 

Give it a hell of a scraping and power washing to remove as much of the loose stuff as possible. Give it a good cleaning with a broom/stiff brush and your favorite cleaner. Then apply a couple coats of Sherwin Williams A100.


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## y.painting

Also, use smaller resolution images on the forums...I cant read sh*t because of the size of you picture.


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## Mantis

y.painting said:


> Also, use smaller resolution images on the forums...I cant read sh*t because of the size of you picture.


There is a scroll bar on the bottom of your screen. Click it and drag it to the right :whistling2:


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## Benson Painting

I always say your time is better spent doing what you do best. The paint you might have used MP3 could be Loxon XP masonry coating. id use 2 coats, they even make a textured version to hid imperfects.


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## y.painting

Mantis said:


> There is a scroll bar on the bottom of your screen. Click it and drag it to the right :whistling2:


There is a simple setting on a camera (or photo editing ware) to get lower res images :whistling2: to make is easier for everyone


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## nEighter

next


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## nEighter

page


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## nEighter

Are you still attempting this project?


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## Wolfgang

Use SW LOXON for the 
primer.


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## 4ThGeneration

*Heres one way to approach things.*

Scrape and use a sanding disk if needed to remove it all.

Low pressure clean using 12.5% SH and some Dawn

Allow to dry

If you have any gaps in the block, I would use knife grade elastomeric patching. When you apply it, you can apply with the knife, but then use a damp brush to smooth it out.




Prime:

Benjamin Moore High Build Acrylic Masonry Primer. Use a airless to get the mils you need because you may get like 75SF per gallon to cover that mess up. Backroll it. Make sure you cover everything up. Even if you have to back the PSI off a bit.

Finish:

Benjamin Moore Moorlastic(Elastomeric) 100% acrylic water proof coating. I would apply with a airless again with a backroll. I would apply a 2nd coat by spraying a quick cap coat.


Finally, do not charge a cheap trunk slammers price. When you use quality and apply with quality, you need to be able to charge for the quality. Outdoor Painting Services are something we love to offer for the simple reason that it can get you some major interior projects.

This is just a basic answer as there is always things that come up on every project that I can not see from a photo.


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## PressurePros

TJ Paint said:


> Hire a pro.


LOL.. don't make me smack you painters around. I do share the sentiment most times.. especially when a painter thinks with his 2 gpm machine he can wash a house or deck corrctly. No foul, just the competative side of the trades. I had a similar project and I tapped a couple of painters.. Jimmy above being one of them. We can all share info as long as we aren't down the street taking food from each other's plates. I don't mind helping guys via pm.


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## Induspray

*Peeling exterior block*

Why is it failing? Could be the block was never cleaned prior to painting last time, could be moisture coming from the interior of the building, could be alkylinity in the concrete. Hard to know without proper investigation.

The best way to deal with this if you want to guarantee the wall will not peel again anywhere and that it will look 100% perfect is to blast off all the coating on the whole wall. This may not be practical both from a cost and a procedural point depeding on what else is in the vicinity and how much you would have to contain the media from blasting.

From a best value standpoint I would high pressure wash the complete surface using rotating paint stripping heads at between 3500 and 4000 psi to try and remove as much of the paint as possible. Dont waste your time with small pressure of low output GPM pressure washers. Once it is pressure washed you will have edges curling and sticking out when dry so you will have to scrape these areas again.

Plan on block filling the newly exposed block or the finish coats will never look correct. You can then put on 2 coats of either 100% Acrylic Latex or Elastomeric (a beefed up acrylic latex). And that should give you a long life system. 

Keep in mind if you pressure wash the wall instead of sandblasting the old coating off that not all the paint will come off so when the wall is finished you will still be able to see where the original paint was and where the new paint is. Also there is always the possibility that the paint which would not come off easily with pressure washing may delaminate in the future. The only way around that is to strip all the old paint off which is probalby more that the budget can take.


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## plainpainter

I know exactly how I'd tackle that project, but I no longer will offer that kind of info publicly. And some of the stuff I am reading here is way overkill.


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## Induspray

*Painting peeling block*

Just curious the purpose of your post. If you have no commment why bother posting that you know how to do it but you refuse to say anything???


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## Workaholic

plainpainter said:


> I know exactly how I'd tackle that project, but I no longer will offer that kind of info publicly. And some of the stuff I am reading here is way overkill.


Why the tight lip Daniel?


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## summertime14

You can put a 100% acrylic on brick. But this has issues, more than likely related to a combination of moisture and the PH in the block or mortar. Loxon Primer is designed for problems like this. But like someone else mentioned I don't think you will have the best possible result unless you remove the previous coating. If the old coats you were unable to remove start to peel again, nothing will stop that. So you will be at the mercy of the surface you paint. Just my opinion.


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## In Demand

Tint your primer to a strange color, then make sure that any paint under yours is not warrantied. That way if the old paint peels you can show them that is was below your odd colored primer and not covered by warranty.
I am not saying to not do your best to strip it all off, I am just saying I have covered my ass this way before.


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## spraymonster

first thing you should do is have a roofing contractor come in.no matter what you do same result will happen .water has found it's way and is doing what it does.you can climb a ladder and you will be able to see damage on caps yourself.run


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## PApaints

There has been some good and some bad advice on here. Be careful what you listen to. First, call SW or PPG or ICI or whatever paint dealer you use THAT HAS SERVICE REPS, and have a trained coatings specifier come to the job and write a prep and coating spec. This wall is (as someone else pointed out) failing at the joints. Paint is not smart. It's not choosing where to fail, and it wasn't "an unclean wall" or it would fail every where. At the horizontal mortar joints, water is pooling on the backside of the block where it is not struck. This is defitely a moisture problem (of some sort). Figure out where (at the top) water is getting in. Could be the wall cap, could be coming from inside the building, could be a hundred things - but you HAVE to figure this out first. Fix that problem. the water coming through at the joints could be keeping the PH high, it could be causing efflorescence (cant tell from pics), it could just be kicking off the paint. Either way, once water prob is fixed, use an oscillating tip and strip all the loose paint you can. Use Loxon Conditioner, NOT PRIMER. The conditioner will fix any PH issue, and double as a tie down coat on your loose edges. Follow with Loxon Topcoat or a similar heavy milled Acrylic meant for hot masonry surfaces (not many match Loxon no matter what anyone tells you). It would be nice to block fill (again, Loxon BF) before topcoating, but you can't at this stage unless you remove ALL of the old failing coating. But, first things first, get someone knowledgable (a SW rep?) to come write a spec or you're going to just make a bad problem worse -- good paint over bad just makes more bad! Don't get yourself sued. Oh yeah, and when the time comes, spray and backroll on both coats.

Good luck! Let us know how it goes.


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## RPS

You're hired Steve. That was the best reply to this guys question.


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## TJ Paint

pghsteve said:


> There has been some good and some bad advice on here. Be careful what you listen to. First, call SW or PPG or ICI or whatever paint dealer you use THAT HAS SERVICE REPS, and have a trained coatings specifier come to the job and write a prep and coating spec. This wall is (as someone else pointed out) failing at the joints. Paint is not smart. It's not choosing where to fail, and it wasn't "an unclean wall" or it would fail every where. At the horizontal mortar joints, water is pooling on the backside of the block where it is not struck. This is defitely a moisture problem (of some sort). Figure out where (at the top) water is getting in. Could be the wall cap, could be coming from inside the building, could be a hundred things - but you HAVE to figure this out first. Fix that problem. the water coming through at the joints could be keeping the PH high, it could be causing efflorescence (cant tell from pics), it could just be kicking off the paint. Either way, once water prob is fixed, use an oscillating tip and strip all the loose paint you can. Use Loxon Conditioner, NOT PRIMER. The conditioner will fix any PH issue, and double as a tie down coat on your loose edges. Follow with Loxon Topcoat or a similar heavy milled Acrylic meant for hot masonry surfaces (not many match Loxon no matter what anyone tells you). It would be nice to block fill (again, Loxon BF) before topcoating, but you can't at this stage unless you remove ALL of the old failing coating. But, first things first, get someone knowledgable (a SW rep?) to come write a spec or you're going to just make a bad problem worse -- good paint over bad just makes more bad! Don't get yourself sued. Oh yeah, and when the time comes, spray and backroll on both coats.
> 
> Good luck! Let us know how it goes.


Good points here, basically similar to what I meant but didn't feel like taking the time to spell it out. My experience with SW reps has been sketchy and humorous on projects similar to these where there is failure. Sure, they are good at giving you a spec for an appropriate system for the particular substrate and environment, but most of the time fall short as to guidance on finding the source of the failure that you are there to mend in the first place. I'm not saying a rep can't help you come to a conclusion, but in my experience, fall short in that ability. Ultimately, its a skill that comes with experience, and learning what to look for. 

What would be funny is, after all the responses on this thread, the op talks to the owner, and the owner just says, "well, I know the roof leaks and I should have a new gutter system and vents installed, but I don't wanna spend money on that yet, so just paint it and freshen it up for now."


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## captainblando

its not effervescence, its Efflorescence.You are taling about soda pop, but this Means moisture is coming thru the other side, look at the other side first.

Once that the possible culprit is solved power wash or blast it, steam power washing helps. Than wire brush any efflorescense(salts, lime) maybe use some muriatic acid(10:1) and rinse. phosphoric acid helps too(hurrisafe for example from auto body supply)

and prime with blockfiller(exterior) or a quality exterior latex primer and top coat with elastomeric or quality acrylic latex


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## captainblando

I agree with looking at the roof as well, there IS a problem beyond paint. 

I disagree with leaving your job in the hands of a sales rep with as much training as a 6 dollar and hr worker at home depot working weekends


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## TJ Paint

captainblando said:


> its not effervescence, its Efflorescence.You are taling about soda pop, but this Means moisture is coming thru the other side, look at the other side first.
> 
> Once that the possible culprit is solved power wash or blast it, steam power washing helps. Than wire brush any efflorescense(salts, lime) maybe use some muriatic acid(10:1) and rinse. phosphoric acid helps too(hurrisafe for example from auto body supply)
> 
> and prime with blockfiller(exterior) or a quality exterior latex primer and top coat with elastomeric or quality acrylic latex


my darn spellcheck let me down again


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## Retired

Praise the Lord for the Captain who not only has his spellcheck turned on but took the time to address the problem.


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## TJ Paint

darn religious freaks...


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## Mike Perley/ Plano

Looks like a moisture problem to me. Moisture behind the paint surface.
Find out what is on the other side of the wall. The back side should be sealed/painted.
See if the top of the block wall is capped. It appears the problem is worse at the top of the wall. The bottom of the wall looks ok. Water might be getting inside the wall every time it rains.
Find out where the water is coming from.
Remove the loose paint. Pressure wash, scrape, sand.
Do whatever it takes to get the wall cleaned.
Test the P/H.
Let it dry out before applying any paint.
Apply block filler or Sherwin Williams “Loxon” masonry primer.
Apply 100% acrylic latex paint. Good grade, like S.W. A-100 or up.

Good luck.

Mike


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