# PPG is making a push



## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

I had a local new to the area ppg store call me a few days ago and offer to qoute prices against sherwin williams since it is what is most avaliable around here. I have to say they beat every item by $5 or more. I have not used much ppg what is the concensus on there products. Good or bad.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

If PPG wants to offer us $5.00 less a gallon than our SW prices (atleast on Duration and Masterhide) I know it will put them out of business. But that's what it will take for us to switch to a product I have never ever used. I don't even know where PPG is sold around here.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

BPC said:


> I had a local new to the area ppg store call me a few days ago and offer to qoute prices against sherwin williams since it is what is most avaliable around here. I have to say they beat every item by $5 or more. I have not used much ppg what is the concensus on there products. Good or bad.


I've never used PPG's architectural product line, but their industrial coating line may be even better than SW's.


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

Same here i dont know there product line. But i told them cashmere,superpaint,chb,duration,promar 200 and the duratuon was $31 a gallon. Trying to find out more about their line.


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

Around here they are a big box store brand. But now Sherwin is as well these days.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

I'll take PPG over SW every day of the week. Like BM and Cali, they finally got on the using better colorant technology bandwagon (unlike SW) and their pricing is sweet. Their products are at least as good as SW line by line, better tinting system, better colorfastness, better pricing.


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## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

I've always loved their bright white ceiling paint. It's my "go to" if I want a dead flat.


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

Is there flat superior to SW chb its pretty flat.


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

Truth is SW is sold more based on location & brand advertising 

Tell a home your using PPG and they don't know who they are, tell them your using SW and they feel warn & fuzzy

SW advertising and a store on ever corner has sold SW as the leading paint brand
Being open 7 days, long store hours and 30% off sale every other week seals the deal to a lot of painters and HO

For me i think PPG is superior, great service, better reps, excellence products it's just location & hours that hurt. As far as price it really doesn't affect me that much 

I really enjoy spending my money at a PPG store knowing what i'll get for my money. Service is better and products are great, every dollar i spend at SW leaves me feel that i got hustled at a carnival game at the local fair 

i would be willing to bet a pound of bacon if they had as many stores / hours as SW did that they would kill SW


.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

We're making the switch I think ....pricing is way better and CONSISTANT. I'm thinking a slow transition is a good idea. Keeps production rates where they are with no giant surprises. ...we'll see. I'm still having a hard time with a label that says glidden on it.. hoping they get new labels on everything sooner than later. HO's are hard to convince sometimes...


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

BPC said:


> Same here i dont know there product line. But i told them cashmere,superpaint,chb,duration,promar 200 and the duratuon was $31 a gallon. Trying to find out more about their line.


We pay much less than $31 for Duration. Cashmere and superpaint we don't use but again a killer price now locked in. Masterhide not even the box stores can match this price we get. But still we spend more money on BM and use BM 99% of the time.


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

I am burnt out on the sw propaganda and sales. They do have good products but they also give the same pricing to everyone when it comes to these stupid sales. I will be trying some of ppg products little by little. In this game you can not stay stuck on one thing. They always reformulate it anyway in a few years.


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

Used alot of SW in the past, now BM is our goto with PPG second. So here's my 2 cents on some comparisons. 
Speedhide beats 200 any day of the week. Pure Performance is similar/comparable to Harmony. Manor Hall is almost as good as BM Regal. 

For exterior Sunproof is midgrade, think Superpaint but better. Manor Hall Timeless would compete with Duration.

Sealgrip acrylic primer is a good primer/sealer. They have it in alkyd too for stains.

Devflex dtm is good if sprayed but doesn't hide well brushed. It is a very durable coat though. 

Breakthrough (even new formula) has been very good to me. Better sprayed but can be brushed.

And Pitt-thane is a good epoxy for outdoor metal furniture and railings.

That's the extent of what I use from PPG.


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## Jeff Watkins (Mar 8, 2008)

Approached by PPG a couple of months ago to give them a shot. Rep gave me some great prices so I thought why not. SW was my go to paint before.
Pro's I have found with PPG
My rep at SW was non-existent. My rep at PPG calls me regularly (almost daily) and has delivered several times to my jobsite.
Prices have been great. Here are some examples.
Silken Touch $24 per gallon. Like it better than ProMar 200
Speedhide Wall Primer $60 per 5 gal. Covers great.
Speedhide Pro EV Wall Eggshell $70 per 5 gal. Used on warehouse walls looks great.
Devflex Semi-Gloss Water-Borne Acrylic $32 per gal. Dries quick and hard. Used on all trim in 1M house. Homeowner loves it.
Breakthough $30 used on a small job. Looks great.
Pitt-Glaze Waterborne Epoxy 16-310 Eggshell $30 per gallon. Used on some industrial bathrooms. Looks Great and met specs for the job.
Seal Grip Interior Stain Blocker Latex Primer. $20 per gallon. Used under DevFlex. Very happy with results. Have always used Kilz Cover Stain Oil in past but it worked great. Still a little partial to Cover Stain.
Permanizer Exterior $100 for 5 gal. Only product my guys haven't liked so far. Dries slow. Not as thick as Duration. However, my rep said they are re-formulating it so I will try it. Until that time we are going to try Manor Hall. I have used Acri-Shield in the past with no problems.
Also, every non paint item, roller covers, brushes, spackle, etc. has been cheaper at PPG.
One downside, only open until 5pm on weekdays, noon on Saturdays and not on Sundays.
They have earned by business.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

As well, we use BM the majority of the time. Our secondary brand is Ppg. Breakthrough, Manor Hall, Pure performance. All excellent products.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

There is a good PPG store near me with great employees, and the regional rep is very good. I'm pretty set in my California/BM ways, but Pitt-Tech and Breakthrough get me in the door a good bit. I can't remember the last time I went to SW for anything.


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## Boco (May 18, 2013)

Timeless from PPG is there best exterior. Its a very nice product which covers and looks great. Manorhall exterior is also another great looking product and sprays like glass for commercial or budget jobs. As for industrial paints PPG is the best out there. For interior commercial work I prefer Ultrahide 150 and 250 but speedhide also does the trick. For high end interior Work Manorhall is tough to beat for the price.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Man I hear these bad SW experiences here and am taken back by them. I must be in a good area here. My rep calls me a least every other week to check in and see if I need anything, my prices never change no matter which store I'm at, and every store manager I come across couldn't be more friendly and knowledgeable. Sure they have some products I don't particularly care for but with some many lines available I don't have a problem avoiding them.


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## Boco (May 18, 2013)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Man I hear these bad SW experiences here and am taken back by them. I must be in a good area here. My rep calls me a least every other week to check in and see if I need anything, my prices never change no matter which store I'm at, and every store manager I come across couldn't be more friendly and knowledgeable. Sure they have some products I don't particularly care for but with some many lines available I don't have a problem avoiding them.


 Keep an eye on your invoices. They have a tendency to over charge for products that you have prices locked in for. I was all SW for my first 15 years in business but just got sick and tired of getting over billed.


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

PPG stores in Cincinnati have poorly trained employees. They rival Home Depot. 

Every time I leave one, I shake my head.


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

epretot said:


> PPG stores in Cincinnati have poorly trained employees. They rival Home Depot.
> 
> Every time I leave one, I shake my head.


I am not concerned with store employees as long as i know my products. I often shake my head leaving certain sherwin williams. I once had an employee of sherwin tell me they dont make PRO CLASSIC.


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## Boco (May 18, 2013)

I just get my products delivered. If I need help with a specialty product I highly doubt a paint store worker is going to know. I call my rep or ask on PT


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

Boco said:


> I just get my products delivered. If I need help with a specialty product I highly doubt a paint store worker is going to know. I call my rep or ask on PT


It seems all the experinced staff in most any store is or has died or retired. The day of knowing your products is becoming rare now they just need to know when in doubt sell the exspensive stuff. Hi im paintining cedar siding what do you recommend? Umm definetly emerald it has primers in it.:what:


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Zoomer said:


> As well, we use BM the majority of the time. Our secondary brand is Ppg. Breakthrough, Manor Hall, Pure performance. All excellent products.


Manor hall is right there with Cashmere and probably at least $10 cheaper. It is all I use for most of my work. Flips and apartments, rentals, get speed hide at around $20 a gallon


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## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

Repaint Florida said:


> Truth is SW is sold more based on location & brand advertising
> 
> Tell a home your using PPG and they don't know who they are, tell them your using SW and they feel warn & fuzzy
> 
> ...


That's how it is here with Ben Moore they kill all other brands . 75 percent as soon as your on the phone or in there house first thing they ask ...you use BM right? It's all about branding and BM kills it in my part of New England. SW does ok but far and away its BM land.

As I am a old cranky painter I've used tons of PPG products and there 6-2 and 6-411 could not be beat for a quick dry primer and egg fro walls. There DTM and industrial line was also A1. We have zero PPG stores in my area .

Another 100 percent great paint is California and another was or is Muralo but again no branding or margketing.

Im actually using more SW these days due to location and service. ( they deliver). I support my independent stores much as I can but no delivery and closest is 15 miles of traffic. Please excuse my grammar and spelling.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

thinkpainting/nick said:


> That's how it is here with Ben Moore they kill all other brands . 75 percent as soon as your on the phone or in there house first thing they ask ...you use BM right? It's all about branding and BM kills it in my part of New England. SW does ok but far and away its BM land.
> 
> As I am a old cranky painter I've used tons of PPG products and there 6-2 and 6-411 could not be beat for a quick dry primer and egg fro walls. There DTM and industrial line was also A1. We have zero PPG stores in my area .
> 
> ...


The logistical support from a supplier is sometimes more important than the quality of the paint. Particularly, since most top brand paints perform well enough to pass a job.

I think most painters, who shop at the box stores, do it out of convenience rather than loyalty to a product. Convenience equals time saved, and that's what this business is generally all about.


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## Phinnster (Feb 20, 2013)

Cd
How much do you pay for duration exterior
I have never used it ?

Thanks


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## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

CApainter said:


> The logistical support from a supplier is sometimes more important than the quality of the paint. Particularly, since most top brand paints perform well enough to pass a job.
> 
> I think most painters, who shop at the box stores, do it out of convenience rather than loyalty to a product. Convenience equals time saved, and that's what this business is generally all about.


I agree time saved usually means money saved.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

Phinnster said:


> Cd
> How much do you pay for duration exterior
> I have never used it ?
> 
> Thanks


Allow me to jump in here- Duration interior is bunk unless you get it for less than $30 a gallon. Even then, I can think of 5 other paints that I'd use before it. Duration's finish doesn't feel that great. Kinda grainy compared to other interior paints. If you must go SW, Cashmere is a nicer finish.

(Duration exterior is good, unless it's over many old coats of paint, then it's bad as it can pull off the old coats)


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

kdpaint said:


> Allow me to jump in here- Duration interior is bunk unless you get it for less than $30 a gallon. Even then, I can think of 5 other paints that I'd use before it. Duration's finish doesn't feel that great. Kinda grainy compared to other interior paints. If you must go SW, Cashmere is a nicer finish.
> 
> (Duration exterior is good, unless it's over many old coats of paint, then it's bad as it can pull off the old coats)


I wouldn't use interior duration for under $20, hate that paint.


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## Sustainable in OR. (Dec 30, 2010)

Love PPG Pittech !!!
Excellent industrial line but as stated before, store hours and locations not the same as local SW.
Think industrial here as this PPG would not be something available everywhere.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Sustainable in OR. said:


> Love PPG Pittech !!!
> Excellent industrial line but as stated before, store hours and locations not the same as local SW.
> Think industrial here as this PPG would not be something available everywhere.


Have you ever used their waterborne epoxy Aqua Pon? I sprayed the interior ceiling and walls of a locker room/shower about fourteen years ago and it is still as glossy as the day I sprayed it.

I continue to use it on concrete floors in light industrial environments.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

thinkpainting/nick said:


> That's how it is here with Ben Moore they kill all other brands . 75 percent as soon as your on the phone or in there house first thing they ask ...you use BM right? It's all about branding and BM kills it in my part of New England. SW does ok but far and away its BM land.
> 
> As I am a old cranky painter I've used tons of PPG products and there 6-2 and 6-411 could not be beat for a quick dry primer and egg fro walls. There DTM and industrial line was also A1. We have zero PPG stores in my area .
> 
> ...


Same here. Plus, 6-90 for interior trim. As much as we came to like Impervo when PPG left he area, the rheologic properties of 6-90 were hard to beat. When SW moved into the area in '87, we had to use what was supposed to be their equivalent. Hah! Not even close. I don't even remember the product name...because we never used it again.

Now, our BM store has picked up PPG as well.


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## Stonehampaintdept (Jan 10, 2013)

thinkpainting/nick said:


> That's how it is here with Ben Moore they kill all other brands . 75 percent as soon as your on the phone or in there house first thing they ask ...you use BM right? It's all about branding and BM kills it in my part of New England. SW does ok but far and away its BM land.
> 
> As I am a old cranky painter I've used tons of PPG products and there 6-2 and 6-411 could not be beat for a quick dry primer and egg fro walls. There DTM and industrial line was also A1. We have zero PPG stores in my area .
> 
> ...


California acquired Muralo a while back so all California dealers have access to it even if its not stocked.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Stonehampaintdept said:


> California acquired Muralo a while back so all California dealers have access to it even if its not stocked.


Hopefully they are going to start stocking the Muralo products in the Cali distribution centers in the near future. I know it is something that is being discussed. As it is now it is a 60 gallon minimum order unless you want to pay a bunch of freight. It's tough to put it into stock in a smaller market such as mine, so I kind of promote it as a special order only product. If any painters were to want to use Muralo on a regular basis I would certain stock product for them. I just got some Ultraceramic product to test and I am quite impressed. The big issue is whether there is anyone in the area willing to pay for it!

And back to the OP. Having worked for both SW and PPG I would definitely have to say in all honesty that the PPG products dollar for dollar are superior to the SW product line. Not California superior but superior! But one thing to keep in mind is that when you buy from SW solely on the basis of convenience, you are paying out the nose for that convenience by way of lower overall product quality. Also, when you talk about time being so critical to your profitability, you have to look at the complete picture! If a product is a pita to use and wastes your time, or you have to spend an inordinate amount of time waiting to get a paint order made up, or god forbid they screw that paint order up and you have to waste time getting it re-made or you have to go back to the store to get it, you can erase any time savings you have made by going to the closest paint store! Those things are just as critical to the overall time savings as being able to drive a couple of blocks to buy your paint. Time spent sitting in a paint store is still wasted time and wasted money.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

Stonehampaintdept said:


> California acquired Muralo a while back so all California dealers have access to it even if its not stocked.


Will Muralo use Cali's Trillion tinting system? That would be amazing,


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## Stonehampaintdept (Jan 10, 2013)

PACman said:


> Hopefully they are going to start stocking the Muralo products in the Cali distribution centers in the near future. I know it is something that is being discussed. As it is now it is a 60 gallon minimum order unless you want to pay a bunch of freight. It's tough to put it into stock in a smaller market such as mine, so I kind of promote it as a special order only product. If any painters were to want to use Muralo on a regular basis I would certain stock product for them. I just got some Ultraceramic product to test and I am quite impressed. The big issue is whether there is anyone in the area willing to pay for it!


It should go towards your 60gal minimum, say you wanted to get 12 gallons of muralo ceiling white, adding it to your a 48 gal cali order would put you at 60. I've seen muralo products ready for shipping in Andover. Don't know about other distribution centers.



kdpaint said:


> Will Muralo use Cali's Trillion tinting system? That would be amazing,


In the future I believe yes. Right now they are introducing the Cal Pro Zero which was a Muralo product relabeled using trillion. They're still working on formulas.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Stonehampaintdept said:


> It should go towards your 60gal minimum, say you wanted to get 12 gallons of muralo ceiling white, adding it to your a 48 gal cali order would put you at 60. I've seen muralo products ready for shipping in Andover. Don't know about other distribution centers.
> 
> 
> They aren't doing it yet out of Louisville. Everything Muralo has to come out of the Muralo distribution center. So no adding on to Cali orders yet! When I can, I will bring in some stock!
> In the future I believe yes. Right now they are introducing the Cal Pro Zero which was a Muralo product relabeled using trillion. They're still working on formulas.


I'm pretty sure the trillion colorants are good in Muralo products.


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## Stonehampaintdept (Jan 10, 2013)

PACman said:


> I'm pretty sure the trillion colorants are good in Muralo products.


Trillion is completely compatible yes. I'm just not sure if they have rolled out all the formulas for Muralo lines yet. I'm still waiting on the update to my ColorPro for Cal Pro Zero. Sitting on stocked bases that I can't sell yet


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Stonehampaintdept said:


> Trillion is completely compatible yes. I'm just not sure if they have rolled out all the formulas for Muralo lines yet. I'm still waiting on the update to my ColorPro for Cal Pro Zero. Sitting on stocked bases that I can't sell yet


My understanding is that the updates to Colorpro and even Match-rite are due any day now.


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## Stonehampaintdept (Jan 10, 2013)

PACman said:


> My understanding is that the updates to Colorpro and even Match-rite are due any day now.


yep, been hearing that for a couple weeks myself...


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## Stonehampaintdept (Jan 10, 2013)

So, just asked my rep about the formulas again. 95 base tints the same. 91, 92, 93 start with 75% and adjust. They are still working on it like mad but will definitely this year...:vs_boom:


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## 007 Dave (Jun 22, 2016)

We use both S.W. and PPG. For interior walls I like using Cashmere low luster with a microfiber roller. But some people have said the Low luster has to much sheen. So then I will use PPG silk-n-touch eggshell. Or if they have asthma or just don't like the smell of paint , we use PPG's Pure Performance for the wall paint it works well and has a low odor. For interior trim I prefer S.W. Pro Classic over PPG's Advantage 900. Exterior we use both Duration for the wood trim and siding and Resilience for the metal garage doors and metal entry doors, or Permanizer for the wood trim and siding and Acri-shield for the metal garage doors and metal entry doors. But I think the Permanizer is better than Duration and Resilience is better than Acri-shield (That's just my opinion) The thickness of the Duration and the Permanizer seems to be based on what base it is in. For ceiling paint I do like the S.W. Eminence better than PPG's 9585 ceiling paint. For the tools PPG seems to have the better price. Hope this helps


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## bobross (Jun 27, 2016)

007 Dave said:


> We use both S.W. and PPG. For interior walls I like using Cashmere low luster with a microfiber roller. But some people have said the Low luster has to much sheen. So then I will use PPG silk-n-touch eggshell. Or if they have asthma or just don't like the smell of paint , we use PPG's Pure Performance for the wall paint it works well and has a low odor. For interior trim I prefer S.W. Pro Classic over PPG's Advantage 900. Exterior we use both Duration for the wood trim and siding and Resilience for the metal garage doors and metal entry doors, or Permanizer for the wood trim and siding and Acri-shield for the metal garage doors and metal entry doors. But I think the Permanizer is better than Duration and Resilience is better than Acri-shield (That's just my opinion) The thickness of the Duration and the Permanizer seems to be based on what base it is in. For ceiling paint I do like the S.W. Eminence better than PPG's 9585 ceiling paint. For the tools PPG seems to have the better price. Hope this helps


Yes that was very hepfu as i use alot of the same sw products.


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## faithshipman (Jul 4, 2016)

We love PPG. Paint is better quality, better pricing and the reps are much more helpful


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## ElTacoPaco (Dec 11, 2015)

Question for everyone
Whenever you guys go to a PPG store do the employees have to manually match all the non Porter, Pittsburgh and PPG colors? I am having that problem here in GA. PPG colors are not as popular and they literally have to match all the colors with a not so great matching machine that most of the time they have to tweak it because it is not that accurate


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## Stonehampaintdept (Jan 10, 2013)

ElTacoPaco said:


> Question for everyone
> Whenever you guys go to a PPG store do the employees have to manually match all the non Porter, Pittsburgh and PPG colors? I am having that problem here in GA. PPG colors are not as popular and they literally have to match all the colors with a not so great matching machine that most of the time they have to tweak it because it is not that accurate


MOST photo-spectrometers are not accurate enough all the time. I have one of the new models and still have to tweak. Sometimes it's good right off the bat, other times I have to adjust to get it right. It's part of the game.
Matchrite does have conversions for every ones colors to all major tinting systems, but even those have to be adjusted sometimes.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Stonehampaintdept said:


> MOST photo-spectrometers are not accurate enough all the time. I have one of the new models and still have to tweak. Sometimes it's good right off the bat, other times I have to adjust to get it right. It's part of the game.
> Matchrite does have conversions for every ones colors to all major tinting systems, but even those have to be adjusted sometimes.


The best photo-spectrometers can only identify 7000-8000 individual colors, whereas a well trained color eye can distinguish over 70,000,000 individual colors. That's why no matter how hard they try to convince everyone the box stores will never be the expert color matchers!


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

PACman said:


> The best photo-spectrometers can only identify 7000-8000 individual colors, whereas a well trained color eye can distinguish over 70,000,000 individual colors. That's why no matter how hard they try to convince everyone the box stores will never be the expert color matchers!


That being said, if you give someone 3000 and they can't pick one


=


Red Flag.


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## ElTacoPaco (Dec 11, 2015)

PACman said:


> The best photo-spectrometers can only identify 7000-8000 individual colors, whereas a well trained color eye can distinguish over 70,000,000 individual colors. That's why no matter how hard they try to convince everyone the box stores will never be the expert color matchers!


Too bad the guys in GA are as good if not worse than their HD counterparts


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## 007 Dave (Jun 22, 2016)

Here in central Indiana S.W. seems to be quicker when matching another paint line than PPG is. If its not in the S.W. system and they match another color from another paint line, that store will put it in their system and if another store across the country has that color come in their store the formula is there. You still want to match it to your color for your own good. If its in their system it takes no more time than them mixing their color. Most of the time I have to drop off a color for PPG to match a color and pick it up a couple of hours later or sometimes eventhe next day.


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## ElTacoPaco (Dec 11, 2015)

007 Dave said:


> Here in central Indiana S.W. seems to be quicker when matching another paint line than PPG is. If its not in the S.W. system and they match another color from another paint line, that store will put it in their system and if another store across the country has that color come in their store the formula is there. You still want to match it to your color for your own good. If its in their system it takes no more time than them mixing their color. Most of the time I have to drop off a color for PPG to match a color and pick it up a couple of hours later or sometimes eventhe next day.


Both companies habe that ability to save matches. But SW has a kickads Match Rite and I feel like PPG doesnt


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## Giovanni (Dec 10, 2020)

BPC said:


> I am not concerned with store employees as long as i know my products. I often shake my head leaving certain sherwin williams. I once had an employee of sherwin tell me they dont make PRO CLASSIC.


I had a sw employee tell me to just add dirt if i wanted to get traction when painting steps!


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