# Horrible job



## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

Got a call to look at a job today to paint all trim,doors,windows. I walk in and it goes like this. 

We fired the painter that got us this far so we are skeptical. I say ok whats the problem they say the lady we found on craigslist said that some areas are done already but the nail holes arent filled and nothing is caulked. 

I feel the woodwork it is horrible like non skid holes arent filled nothing caulked. She used sw multi purpose over knotty pine which is already bleeding thru with tannins. Now my favorite she used cashmere lo lustre for a finish coat.

Does anyone use wallpaint for woodwork especially doors and handrails? I only use enamels or laquers so this is foreign to me. I like cashmere use it alot but on walls not wood.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Are you asking if you should run away? If so, yes.


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## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

RH said:


> Are you asking if you should run away? If so, yes.


Run to the hills"""""" run for your lives:yes:


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

These situations are often tough to tolerate and manage. If they can get beyond the fact that you weren't the one that screwed them, you can come out looking like the hero. If they can't, this is gonna be a very long, frustrating job as they scrutinize every single thing you do or say. Basically dogging you through the entire process.

If you can do it, and they're into it maybe just suggest you take on one part of the job and finish it to completion. If they're happy with the finished work, carry on but they have to agree to let go of their previous situation and let you do your job.

This being said, you really have to put on your people reading toque and determine if they have it in them to let their previous experience go. If you've got one hint that they can't do this, as others said "I'm not sure this job is the best fit for me. I hope you are able to find someone else that you find suitable. Have a great day."


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Wildbill7145 said:


> These situations are often tough to tolerate and manage. If they can get beyond the fact that you weren't the one that screwed them, you can come out looking like the hero. If they can't, this is gonna be a very long, frustrating job as they scrutinize every single thing you do or say. Basically dogging you through the entire process.
> 
> If you can do it, and they're into it maybe just suggest you take on one part of the job and finish it to completion. If they're happy with the finished work, carry on but they have to agree to let go of their previous situation and let you do your job.
> 
> This being said, you really have to put on your people reading toque and determine if they have it in them to let their previous experience go. If you've got one hint that they can't do this, as others said "I'm not sure this job is the best fit for me. I hope you are able to find someone else that you find suitable. Have a great day."


Translation-knitted cap or hat.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

This reminds me of an old Ronny Dio song. How did it go?......


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

PACman said:


> Translation-knitted cap or hat.


Correct. Do you folks seriously say "you'd better wear your knitted cap, it's cold outside"? Is there a colloquial or slang term in the US for these?


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## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

Wildbill7145 said:


> These situations are often tough to tolerate and manage. If they can get beyond the fact that you weren't the one that screwed them, you can come out looking like the hero. If they can't, this is gonna be a very long, frustrating job as they scrutinize every single thing you do or say. Basically dogging you through the entire process.
> 
> If you can do it, and they're into it maybe just suggest you take on one part of the job and finish it to completion. If they're happy with the finished work, carry on but they have to agree to let go of their previous situation and let you do your job.
> 
> This being said, you really have to put on your people reading toque and determine if they have it in them to let their previous experience go. If you've got one hint that they can't do this, as others said "I'm not sure this job is the best fit for me. I hope you are able to find someone else that you find suitable. Have a great day."


WildBill, this is truly a top 5 PaintTalk quote of all-time.:thumbsup:


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

Yup...gotta smooth the feathers, listen to their frustratios, ask what they're expectations are and tell em "no problem! Just go get your checkbook a d I'll have all of this fixed and looking beautiful I no time!"


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

They understand what needs to be done. I think they are mostly pissed that the house is torn up for 2 weeks and its still not done. Finish coats in some rooms and primer in others with nail holes showing and not a strip pf caulking anywhere. I told them it all has to be sanded reprimed and 2 coats of enamel so we will see.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Correct. Do you folks seriously say "you'd better wear your knitted cap, it's cold outside"? Is there a colloquial or slang term in the US for these?


Yep, down here we call them "ugly Canadian hats" (as in the hats are ugly, not the Canadians). :yes:


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Correct. Do you folks seriously say "you'd better wear your knitted cap, it's cold outside"? Is there a colloquial or slang term in the US for these?


hat.

But we typically don't go out wearing one with the little ball on the top, but....you go girl!


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

RH said:


> Yep, down here we call them "ugly Canadian hats" (as in the hats are ugly, not the Canadians). :yes:


It's okay, you don't want to know what we say about our American neighbors. It's not very polite


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Wildbill7145 said:


> These situations are often tough to tolerate and manage. If they can get beyond the fact that you weren't the one that screwed them, you can come out looking like the hero. If they can't, this is gonna be a very long, frustrating job as they scrutinize every single thing you do or say. Basically dogging you through the entire process.
> 
> If you can do it, and they're into it maybe just suggest you take on one part of the job and finish it to completion. If they're happy with the finished work, carry on but they have to agree to let go of their previous situation and let you do your job.
> 
> This being said, you really have to put on your people reading toque and determine if they have it in them to let their previous experience go. If you've got one hint that they can't do this, as others said "I'm not sure this job is the best fit for me. I hope you are able to find someone else that you find suitable. Have a great day."


Offerring to do a sample is a good idea when facing a situation like this.

Had a job once where all the doors and trim had previously been sprayed but doing so again wasn't feasible. Did part of one window casing and trim for the HOs by hand so they could view the results for themselves. They gave me the thumbs up to proceed and ultimately were extremely satisfied with the finished project.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

journeymanPainter said:


> It's okay, you don't want to know what we say about our American neighbors. It's not very polite


Totally understandable.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

journeymanPainter said:


> It's okay, you don't want to know what we say about our American neighbors. It's not very polite


I here they're calling us "Trumps" in Quebec.


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## BearHM11 (Jan 29, 2016)

Does anyone use wallpaint for woodwork especially doors and handrails? I only use enamels or laquers so this is foreign to me. I like cashmere use it alot but on walls not wood.[/QUOTE]

Happens every day. Don't understand it myself, but I guess if they can turn out a good product then to each his own. I've just always questioned the long term durability of it.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Pretty common around here to use pearl on trim and doors. I've had a few over the years that ask for eggshell on doors and trim because they don't like things to look 'shiny'. I give them the standard durability lecture and carry on if that's what they want.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I'm not sure I understand what the issue is in this thread. All I understand is that a dissatisfied homeowner hired a painter that apparently lacked some skills; resulting in incompleted preparation, and poor paint choice for the trim. Now, she wants to hire a painter to fix it. 

Is this not fixable?


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

CApainter said:


> I'm not sure I understand what the issue is in this thread.


'Once bitten, twice shy.' Now you've gotta teach them to dance again, but they've got hurt feelings.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Wildbill7145 said:


> 'Once bitten, twice shy.' Now you've gotta teach them to dance again, but they've got hurt feelings.


Maybe Craig's list wasn't the best place to reach out to a painter. I don't know; I've never used Craig's list once since it's inception.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

CApainter said:


> Maybe Craig's list wasn't the best place to reach out to a painter. I don't know; I've never used Craig's list once since it's inception.


True enough. Me either. I may have poked around on it once for about 5 minutes when I was looking for my first van, but that's about it.

Good idea to develop a strategy to deal with or not deal with the people who did and got stung though. Their money adds up just the same.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

CApainter said:


> I'm not sure I understand what the issue is in this thread. All I understand is that a dissatisfied homeowner hired a painter that apparently lacked some skills; resulting in incompleted preparation, and poor paint choice for the trim. Now, she wants to hire a painter to fix it.
> 
> Is this not fixable?


Fixable? Sure. But for me there would be two potential main issues. One would be their attitude towards anyone now coming in to do more work. Some people would be very appreciative, others very suspicious and possibly combative. You would just have to try and read them and go with your gut. 

The other would be making sure that all of the sub par material is dealt with so as to have no effect on what I do. If they understand a certain amount of remediation is necessary, and that there will be an associated cost, then fine. But if I had a HO fighting me as to what needed to be done to correct the situation, then I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole, or, in this case, brush.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

RH said:


> Fixable? Sure. But for me there would be two potential main issues. One would be their attitude towards anyone now coming in to do more work. Some people would be very appreciative, others very suspicious and possibly combative. You would just have to try and read them and go with your gut.
> 
> The other would be making sure that all of the sub par material is dealt with so as to have no effect on what I do. If they understand a certain amount of remediation is necessary, and that there will be an associated cost, then fine. But if I had a HO fighting me as to what needed to be done to correct the situation, then I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole, or, in this case, brush.


But doesn't what we do often involve repairing sub par work that the homeowner, builder, or cousin Larry did; or simply , the catastrophic effects that neglect has on a paint job?

It seemed to me that everyone is OK with Cashmere lo luster on the walls, but not the trim. And can it be assumed that the Cashmere might be OK as a primer on the trim rather than assume it all has to be removed in order to guarantee the second painter's job? Because, there will be no way in hell a Craig list shopper will pay to have that Cashmere removed from the trim. And, does it really need to be removed?

This job is simpler than what many of you are making it in my opinion.


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

I am sanding everything to give a good bite for bin synthetic did want to just lay it over cashmere it all has a rough texture so sanding is needed regardless. Just figured i would sand a little further. Better safe then sorry. 
The couple is not combative or diffucult they are just asking the questions they should of started with. I have no fear of this job just more dumb founded by the previous applicator... not painter


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## Painter-Aaron (Jan 17, 2013)

I think the red flag comes out when they are complaining about what looks like a good enough job. Little spec here and there and the painter for fired. 

Iv looked at 3 in the past 6 months where the house was butchered from thr previous painter. 

The last one I got a big red flag but as I was talking to her I could see why she was so upset. 

The meeting ended with, I feel as if I can actually trust you to get the job done properly. And thr tension I heard at tbe beginning was gone by the end.


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## Tonyg (Dec 9, 2007)

Would someone who has hired a Craigslist painter for $100 be willing to pay $1,000 for a professional contractor?

When I run into those that are used to 'cheap' I rarely try to sell them on quality.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Often, you just have no choice but to deal with someone else's mess in order to make your's look as it should.

Just finished a job where we were doing the kitchen walls over from a red to a gold/yellow. Owner likely painted it before and I swear, there was so much red on the edges of the cabinets, counter top edges, and built ins that from any kind of a distance it looked like I had just done the worst job edging imaginable. Fortunately, experience had told me to be sure to factor in time for cleaning up the old paint. When done, it looked 1000% better.


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

These people are not combative they just feel swindled and rightfully so but on the same note they went with craigslist. They want it fixed correctly just more upset of what they all ready paid for what they received. There will always be this situation because price is usually always the biggest factor.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

BPC said:


> These people are not combative they just feel swindled and rightfully so but on the same note they went with craigslist. They want it fixed correctly just more upset of what they all ready paid for what they received. There will always be this situation because price is usually always the biggest factor.


Yup. Getting things done cheap is the root of all bad paint jobs. Legit business will eventually be able to take advantage of it though if they are smart. Some times you just have to make it clear that you aren't going to do anything but a good job and you expect to be properly compensated for it.


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

PACman said:


> Yup. Getting things done cheap is the root of all bad paint jobs. Legit business will eventually be able to take advantage of it though if they are smart. Some times you just have to make it clear that you aren't going to do anything but a good job and you expect to be properly compensated for it.


That, and sometimes you just have to walk away from jobs where the customer won't pay for the proper prep work. Seems like there is a correlation between cheap customers and customers who will call in the future complaining about some "failure" or "dissatisfaction" that they want fixed for free.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

SemiproJohn said:


> That, and sometimes you just have to walk away from jobs where the customer won't pay for the proper prep work. Seems like there is a correlation between cheap customers and customers who will call in the future complaining about some "failure" or "dissatisfaction" that they want fixed for free.


From this side of the business, I can tell you all that 90% of the problems paint stores have come from the customers that have the lowest prices quoted to them. That's why I cringe when someone calls and asks what my cheapest paint is.


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## GrandCitiesPainter (Oct 26, 2015)

I wouldn't even take a job like this.


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## GrandCitiesPainter (Oct 26, 2015)

Tonyg said:


> Would someone who has hired a Craigslist painter for $100 be willing to pay $1,000 for a professional contractor?
> 
> When I run into those that are used to 'cheap' I rarely try to sell them on quality.


Advertised on CL doesn't mean hack painter. It means, HO looking for a deal.

I've advertised on CL in the past, and I assure you, I am not cheap.


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## GrandCitiesPainter (Oct 26, 2015)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Good idea to develop a strategy to deal with or not deal with the people who did and got stung though. Their money adds up just the same.


The only problem here is, you would be doing a job where the customer has already invested money in the previous painter. It's a slippery slope for the next guy. No thanks, I would pass on this work.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

GrandCitiesPainter said:


> The only problem here is, you would be doing a job where the customer has already invested money in the previous painter. It's a slippery slope for the next guy. No thanks, I would pass on this work.


True, they've already paid for the work to be done but as I said if they want it redone and can get beyond the fact that you're not the other guy it could turn into a good situation. Someone's gonna fix it. If you wouldn't want to be that guy that's fine of course.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

GrandCitiesPainter said:


> The only problem here is, you would be doing a job where the customer has already invested money in the previous painter. It's a slippery slope for the next guy. No thanks, I would pass on this work.


So then you think they should have it done/fixed for free? Well if that's the case I'm going to find the cheapest home builder, and one he's almost finished I'll fire him, and get a really good home builder to redo the whole job for free. 

It doesn't work this way. You pay to have a job done. If you aren't satisfied with the final product you get the original contractor to fix it. If they don't/can't then you need to hire someone else to fix it if you can't live with it. 

I've had to go in behind previous painters lots of times. It does suck, but sometimes it really pays off, and other times the customer is happy to have there place back. If the customer is going to be bitter towards you for righting someone else's wrong then the problem lies in the customer.


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## Toolnut (Nov 23, 2012)

No way would I walk away from this job. Sit down with the people explain what you need to do and why you need to do it. Don't get too critical or they will go over your work the same way. If I turned down every job I was offered because someone else messed it up I would lose a lot of work.

You go in and work your magic and you come out the hero, big deal right. Ever hear of referrals? Which one do you think gets the most the guy that's a fixer or the guy that walks away? The only way I would walk is if I didn't think I could fix it.


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

This job is fixable no fear. Like i originally posted justmblown away by using cashmere as woodwork paint. I would not walk away this is the ones that get your name out there. When you do the work your a tradesmen when you can fix your own mistakes your a craftsmen when you can fix others mistakes your a magician.


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## GrandCitiesPainter (Oct 26, 2015)

journeymanPainter said:


> So then you think they should have it done/fixed for free? Well if that's the case I'm going to find the cheapest home builder, and one he's almost finished I'll fire him, and get a really good home builder to redo the whole job for free.
> 
> It doesn't work this way. You pay to have a job done. If you aren't satisfied with the final product you get the original contractor to fix it. If they don't/can't then you need to hire someone else to fix it if you can't live with it.
> 
> I've had to go in behind previous painters lots of times. It does suck, but sometimes it really pays off, and other times the customer is happy to have there place back. If the customer is going to be bitter towards you for righting someone else's wrong then the problem lies in the customer.


I never said anything of the sort. You talking to me? LOL

I don't take over other painters blunders, I also don't save the HO when they started the job themselves. 

I turn work away weekly. I just looked at a $15,000 Victorian exterior paint job. I took one look at it and said, na, I don't want it. Then sent a txt to the HO telling her it's not something I would be interested in. 

At my age, I only want easy step ladder work. No, not that old, just tired of the big dog jobs.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

GrandCitiesPainter said:


> I never said anything of the sort. You talking to me? LOL
> 
> I don't take over other painters blunders, I also don't save the HO when they started the job themselves.
> 
> ...


Why would you even go look at an old Victorian exterior if you don't want to do exteriors? Why wouldn't you just tell the homeowner that in the first place?


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## Toolnut (Nov 23, 2012)

Does the word troll come to mind on this thread or is it just me?


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## GrandCitiesPainter (Oct 26, 2015)

journeymanPainter said:


> Why would you even go look at an old Victorian exterior if you don't want to do exteriors? Why wouldn't you just tell the homeowner that in the first place?


Your reading comprehension is lacking. I never said I don't do exteriors.

I went to look because I needed to size the job up. I don't have a crystal ball like you do. Hight, difficulty factors, how much scraping is what I needed to see. Use your imagination. Are you a greenhorn too?


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## Tonyg (Dec 9, 2007)

GrandCitiesPainter said:


> Your reading comprehension is lacking. I never said I don't do exteriors.
> 
> I went to look because I needed to size the job up. I don't have a crystal ball like you do. Hight, difficulty factors, how much scraping is what I needed to see. Use your imagination. Are you a greenhorn too?


"At my age, I only want easy step ladder work"


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## GrandCitiesPainter (Oct 26, 2015)

Tonyg said:


> "At my age, I only want easy step ladder work"





GrandCitiesPainter said:


> I just looked at a $15,000 Victorian exterior paint job.


There's a saying. "actions speak louder than words".
My time is valuable, obviously if I looked at the work and I had interest, hence, I do exterior work. 

To clear up the misunderstanding. I prefer easy jobs however, if I need the job or, the money is right, I will take what I can get.

Getting back to the OP, I would run from this job. If someone was cheap enough to hire a "cheap hack" the first time, history will repeat itself. They are sure to be looking for the low bid, again and again and again.


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

Low ball shopping is fine with me it is usually easy to tell if you are in someones price range just by throwing out some ballpark figures. I never turn down work as people will always be quick to bad mouth you for turning them down. I bid everything with the same criteria so pricing is consistent.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

GrandCitiesPainter said:


> Getting back to the OP, I would run from this job. If someone was cheap enough to hire a "cheap hack" the first time, history will repeat itself. They are sure to be looking for the low bid, again and again and again.


Let them look for the low bid time and time again. I'm sure BPC will be coming behind Fredricos painting a few times over. 

Sometimes you get what you pay for, and if your willing to pay someone to get the job done right then maybe you've learned.


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## GrandCitiesPainter (Oct 26, 2015)

BPC said:


> I never turn down work as people will always be quick to bad mouth you for turning them down.


Doubt it. 

If you respectfully decline a potential customers project, a reasonable person will respect you for your decision. And if you want to be a nice guy and take it a step further, refer a painter friend who would be willing to take a look at the project.


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

GrandCitiesPainter said:


> Doubt it.
> 
> If you respectfully decline a potential customers project, a reasonable person will respect you for your decision. And if you want to be a nice guy and take it a step further, refer a painter friend who would be willing to take a look at the project.


Well i guess you are lucky. This day and age people get their feelings hurt by just about anything.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Wildbill7145 said:


> 'Once bitten, twice shy.' Now you've gotta teach them to dance again, but they've got hurt feelings.


More like "once bitten twice buy" in this incident.


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## GrandCitiesPainter (Oct 26, 2015)

BPC said:


> Well i guess you are lucky. This day and age people get their feelings hurt by just about anything.


If I say this to a person who wants a free estimate,_ "thank you for considering us, at this time, we are going to have to decline the offer, I wish you the best with your project"_ they show respect and appreciate me giving it to them strait. It's all about people skills. People value return phone calls and not leaving them hanging either way.


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

Like i said lucky you.


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## GrandCitiesPainter (Oct 26, 2015)

BPC said:


> Well i guess you are lucky. This day and age people get their feelings hurt by just about anything.


I don't have these bad experiences being up front and honest with people.
You can't stop unreasonable people from being unreasonable. I am a businessman, not a therapist. You will learn one day.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

BPC said:


> Well i guess you are lucky. This day and age people get their feelings hurt by just about anything.


My feelings are hurt just reading this stuff.


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

See what i mean i offened chrisn and didnt even try. I have declined people in the past and they took offense as if there job was beneath me they had hurt feelings and told others which cost me work.


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## Roamer (Jul 5, 2010)

We have turned down maybe a handful of jobs in the last 29 years and it usually didn't end well. 

If you waste someone's time to meet for the site visit and then turn around and tell them the job doesn't suit you or phrase however you like then you've just wasted their time and they still need a painting proposal. 

If we don't want to do the job after visiting the site we will typically just tell the client that we can't get to the job for a couple of months. Most often times that will suffice. If time is not the object then we bid the job exorbitantly.


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

Roamer said:


> We have turned down maybe a handful of jobs in the last 29 years and it usually didn't end well.
> 
> If you waste someone's time to meet for the site visit and then turn around and tell them the job doesn't suit you or phrase however you like then you've just wasted their time and they still need a painting proposal.
> 
> If we don't want to do the job after visiting the site we will typically just tell the client that we can't get to the job for a couple of months. Most often times that will suffice. If time is not the object then we bid the job exorbitantly.


Exactly this is real world here as well.


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## GrandCitiesPainter (Oct 26, 2015)

Roamer said:


> We have turned down maybe a handful of jobs in the last 29 years and it usually didn't end well.
> 
> If we don't want to do the job after visiting the site we will typically just tell the client that we can't get to the job for a couple of months. Most often times that will suffice. If time is not the object then we bid the job exorbitantly.


So you actually do turn away work, you just do it in an indirect way. 
And to comment on your "we bid the job exorbitantly"? Now there's a way to get bad mouthed. Customer - "can you believe the prices XYZ painting charges? They tried to rip us off and over charge us"! :blink:



Roamer said:


> If you waste someone's time to meet for the site visit and then turn around and tell them the job doesn't suit you or phrase however you like then you've just wasted their time and they still need a painting proposal.


There's an interesting thought, the painting contractors wasting the home owners time? you are a funny guy Roamer. :wallbash:

And they still need a painting proposal Roamer says? And this is the contractors responsibility? Like I said, you are a funny guy. And through my experience, the customer gets a minimum of 3 quotes or more anyway, so who is really wasting whose time in the big scheme of things? 

The reality is, customers call contractors for a FREE, no obligation estimate. And it's no obligation on the painters end as well. 

So back to the OP's post, if someone wants to bad mouth me because I feel a job was not a fit for my company, let them bad mouth me, they will get over it.


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## HDI hardener (Apr 2, 2016)

Oh my god.

www.poly-isocyanate.com


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

GrandCitiesPainter said:


> So you actually do turn away work, you just do it in an indirect way.
> And to comment on your "we bid the job exorbitantly"? Now there's a way to get bad mouthed. Customer - "can you believe the prices XYZ painting charges? They tried to rip us off and over charge us"! :blink:
> 
> 
> ...


You are entitled to your opinion, but I've never read one single thing posted by Roamer that I disagreed with. Ever. One of the PT heavyweights in my opinon. So there's that.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

GrandCitiesPainter said:


> So you actually do turn away work, you just do it in an indirect way.
> And to comment on your "we bid the job exorbitantly"? Now there's a way to get bad mouthed. Customer - "can you believe the prices XYZ painting charges? They tried to rip us off and over charge us"! :blink:
> 
> 
> ...


The "funny " man does MILLIONS of dollars in business, MILLIONS, can you say that Mr grand?

http://www.techpainting.com/


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## GrandCitiesPainter (Oct 26, 2015)

SemiproJohn said:


> You are entitled to your opinion, but I've never read one single thing posted by Roamer that I disagreed with. Ever. One of the PT heavyweights in my opinon. So there's that.


Homedepot is a heavy hitter - do people here bad mouth them? :whistling2:

Go get a price for front and back brakes, two shops want $955 to do a brake job, then comes a heavy hitter, and he wants $2,200 for the same brake job, only he really doesn't want the job, so he prices it exorbitantly. 
What is the average person going to think? 

This is my opinion; crooks, thieves, rip off artists. The heavy hitters tried to take advantage of my mother. Shame on those people.


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## GrandCitiesPainter (Oct 26, 2015)

chrisn said:


> The "funny " man does MILLIONS of dollars in business, MILLIONS, can you say that Mr grand?
> 
> http://www.techpainting.com/


Behr paints make millions, checkmate.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

GrandCitiesPainter said:


> Homedepot is a heavy hitter - do people here bad mouth them? :whistling2:
> 
> Go get a price for front and back brakes, two shops want $955 to do a brake job, then comes a heavy hitter, and he wants $2,200 for the same brake job, only he really doesn't want the job, so he prices it exorbitantly.
> What is the average person going to think?
> ...


Actually Midas charges an exorbitant amount for brakes, but the warranty I get is insane. To the point where it's worth it.


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

I never walk away. I will tell someone if its beyond me or if it is going to be pricey because of the amount of time involed to correct issue to get it back to the right starting spot to move forward.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

GrandCitiesPainter said:


> Behr paints make millions, checkmate.


Yes, but Behr sucks:thumbsup:


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Do painters become self employed so they can walk away from jobs? I know I sure can't as an employee. Maybe I should become self employed so I can experience that.

As a result of a hundred thousand years as an employee, I have learned to have the courage to take on anything despite my fears. Real heroic stuff as an employee. 


Which reminds me, I am now the only employee remaining at PT. *I will survive! Sung to the tune of Gloria Gainer*


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

CApainter said:


> Do painters become self employed so they can walk away from jobs? I know I sure can't as an employee. Maybe I should become self employed so I can experience that.
> 
> As a result of a hundred thousand years as an employee, I have learned to have the courage to take on anything despite my fears. Real heroic stuff as an employee.
> 
> ...


Don't worry. I'm both


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## GrandCitiesPainter (Oct 26, 2015)

chrisn said:


> Yes, but Behr sucks:thumbsup:


Ok, so than we both agree, annual income doesn't equal "all seeing, all knowing, greatness"? :whistling2:

BTW, Behrs annual income is 1.2 billion and Home Depots annual income is over 175 Billion. :notworthy:


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

GrandCitiesPainter said:


> Ok, so than we both agree, annual income doesn't equal "all seeing, all knowing, greatness"? :whistling2:
> 
> BTW, Behrs annual income is 1.2 billion and Home Depots annual income is over 175 Billion. :notworthy:


I'd say that HD, and subsequently Behr, have made their success off of convenience rather than quality. Kind of like McDonalds. And good for them. 

I actually never heard of BEHR until Home Depot went into business.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

GrandCitiesPainter said:


> Ok, so than we both agree, annual income doesn't equal "all seeing, all knowing, greatness"? :whistling2:
> 
> BTW, Behrs annual income is 1.2 billion and Home Depots annual income is over 175 Billion. :notworthy:


How often are you in the paint department in home depot and see a professional doing for paint? 

I've only purchased material from there once (Because it was spec'd). Every time I'm there is home owners, the DIY crew. 

So home depots income is 175 billion. How much do they spend on advertising? 

I'm sure I could sell a lot of chocolate flavored dog poo if I spent a fortune on advertising


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## GrandCitiesPainter (Oct 26, 2015)

CApainter said:


> I'd say that HD, and subsequently Behr, have made their success off of convenience rather than quality. Kind of like McDonalds. And good for them.
> 
> I actually never heard of BEHR until Home Depot went into business.


Throughout my travels, where there is a Home Depot, there is a Lowes within a stones throw away. And where there is a Home Depot and Lowes, there is a Sherwin Williams or Benjamin Moore within a few miles. So I don't agree that people shop at the big box stores out of convenience. It's about price.

And to compare a fast food chain with a home improvements center, is not a valid argument. But on a positive note, I enjoy McDonalds at times. Love their Sausage McMuffins and hash browns.


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

I think people shop home depot over sherwin or ben moore out of fear that you have to be a professional to shop the paint stores. It doesnt hurt that home depot i always claiming there stuff is the best either. Mass media advertiing alwayys brings in the zombies.


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## GrandCitiesPainter (Oct 26, 2015)

BPC said:


> I think people shop home depot over sherwin or ben moore out of fear that you have to be a professional to shop the paint stores. It doesnt hurt that home depot i always claiming there stuff is the best either. Mass media advertiing alwayys brings in the zombies.


I see homeowners in SW and BM every time I buy paint there. Especially when they have the SW 30 to 40 % off sales. I don't believe they fear these stores, that is funny. ha... I've also had HO's tell me they buy paint at HD due to the lower prices.

Mass media advertising pushing sales and saving money. Home Depot and Lowes is a household name. Most people know of Home Depot and Lowes, like they know Walmart or their local food market.


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

IMO all paints have a customer base

Behr sell well, but more to the HO that's counting pennies 

when i'am dealing with my customer base i would lose 90% of them if i told the i would use behr

how i am sure plenty of HO don't mind behr, but just won't work for my company

i gear towards ho willing to spend for a professional painter, professional paint & professional service

just no looking for penny pinchers & no way can you compare store service at HD to service at SW, Ben Moore, PPG


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

GrandCitiesPainter said:


> I see homeowners in SW and BM every time I buy paint there. Especially when they have the SW 30 to 40 % off sales. I don't believe they fear these stores, that is funny. ha... I've also had HO's tell me they buy paint at HD due to the lower prices.
> 
> Mass media advertising pushing sales and saving money. Home Depot and Lowes is a household name. Most people know of Home Depot and Lowes, like they know Walmart or their local food market.


If you were to count how many you see in each store the big box store will have more homeowners. I see diyers in store as well but not near as much as the others..


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

Paint the one thing in a house that make the biggest improvement and people choose that to cut on budget. But the $900 dollar kitchen faucet is a must. To each their owm i guess.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

GrandCitiesPainter said:


> I see homeowners in SW and BM every time I buy paint there. Especially when they have the SW 30 to 40 % off sales. I don't believe they fear these stores, that is funny. ha... I've also had HO's tell me they buy paint at HD due to the lower prices.
> 
> Mass media advertising pushing sales and saving money. Home Depot and Lowes is a household name. Most people know of Home Depot and Lowes, like they know Walmart or their local food market.


Counting pennies? They must not be very good at it. I had to pick up 2 pails of semi transparent stain earlier in the week. $550. If I was to buy that at Dulux or Cloverdale it would be closer to $250.


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## GrandCitiesPainter (Oct 26, 2015)

Repaint Florida said:


> no way can you compare store service at HD to service at SW, Ben Moore, PPG


This is what you guys don't seem to understand. Home Depot is a more trafficked and busier store than SW and BM. Half the time I go into a SW or BM, they have only 1 or 2 customers in there at a time. And sometimes the store is empty. Common sense will tell you that you will get better service being 1 of the few customers in the store when you need paints. Especially a store that only sells paints. 

So in short, you are not getting better service at SW and BM because they provide better service. You are getting better service because you are the only customer in the store. Unless you are someone that needs painting advice? Which I never do.


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

I cant count the times i have gone to HD for zinser primer and been the only person at the counter waiting for a p3 tint and no one will stop there converstaion with other employe about there weekend to help me. Box stores suck its that simple.


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## GrandCitiesPainter (Oct 26, 2015)

It has been stated on painttalk that Sherwin William and Benjamin Moore stores are geared more for the professional. Funny, I don't believe these companies have created these areas in their stores with the pro in mind? Looks like a homeowner display to me.


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

No disrespect i just think we have two different business models

your average customer and mine are just different

after 37 years in the paint trade i love working with HO who are willing spend money on their home and branding my company as using SW, PPG & Ben Moore

i am just not into HO / rental / flip house with a tight budget or dealing with a box store 

great that your so happy with behr & the help they have at HD ...

if your happy & that's the way you want to brand your company & your making money go for it

.


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

GrandCitiesPainter said:


> It has been stated on painttalk that Sherwin William and Benjamin Moore stores are geared more for the professional. Funny, I don't believe these companies have created these areas in their stores with the pro in mind? Looks like a homeowner display to me.


I said peoples opinion is they are for professionals obvious who they are targeting with that setup.


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

I wish someone woul kill this post it is off topic


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Somebody likes a good old fashioned arguement.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

The allure of Big Box stores is absolutely convenience. I not only can buy a few gallons of deck stain, but I can also get some Sawsall blades, drywall, and a shovel. And there's plenty of parking.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

CApainter said:


> The allure of Big Box stores is absolutely convenience. I not only can buy a few gallons of deck stain, but I can also get some Sawsall blades, drywall, and a shovel. And there's plenty of parking.


All you need now is staff who knows where that stuff is


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

It's the same deal with Costco. Go in to get get a month's supply of toilet paper, buy a Samsung seventy inch flat screen TV, pick up a prescription, and stuff a pizza or chicken melt down your gullet in less than thirty minutes.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

GrandCitiesPainter said:


> Homedepot is a heavy hitter - do people here bad mouth them? :whistling2:
> 
> Go get a price for front and back brakes, two shops want $955 to do a brake job, then comes a heavy hitter, and he wants $2,200 for the same brake job, only he really doesn't want the job, so he prices it exorbitantly.
> What is the average person going to think?
> ...


Nooooo! Never!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

GrandCitiesPainter said:


> Behr paints make millions, checkmate.


It's all marketing. If I had millions of $$$$ to market my business I would be making millions of $$$$$$ selling crap paint too. 95% of the people who buy paint from HD are clueless as to how good the paint actually is. They just hear the commercials 40 times a day and are conditioned to think it is the best thing going. Read a little bit about how the Nazi propaganda worked and you will understand what I mean. Rule number one- if you are trying to sell something that is substandard, tell as big a lie about it as you can. Follow that up with a constant flow of smaller lies until you have created a demand. That's HD/Behr in a nutshell.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> I'd say that HD, and subsequently Behr, have made their success off of convenience rather than quality. Kind of like McDonalds. And good for them.
> 
> I actually never heard of BEHR until Home Depot went into business.


Behr was a cheap, piss ant local paint company in LA until they sold whatever piddling soul they had to HD. Painters in LA avoided Behr like the plague. If you knew how that company started.....


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

journeymanPainter said:


> How often are you in the paint department in home depot and see a professional doing for paint?
> 
> I've only purchased material from there once (Because it was spec'd). Every time I'm there is home owners, the DIY crew.
> 
> ...


My dad used to say, if you had enough advertising and put a high enough price on it you could put a turd on a plate and sell it.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

GrandCitiesPainter said:


> It has been stated on painttalk that Sherwin William and Benjamin Moore stores are geared more for the professional. Funny, I don't believe these companies have created these areas in their stores with the pro in mind? Looks like a homeowner display to me.


I agree with you on this point! Lots of $$$$$ invested in those fancy displays. Where does that $$$$ come from? Either higher prices (SW,BM,ETC) or cheaper product sold at a "budget" price (HD,LOWE's, menard's).


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

BPC said:


> I wish someone woul kill this post it is off topic


No it isn't! Horrible job-Home Depot/behr. Seems legit to me!


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

PACman said:


> It's all marketing. If I had millions of $$$$ to market my business I would be making millions of $$$$$$ selling crap paint too. 95% of the people who buy paint from HD are clueless as to how good the paint actually is. They just hear the commercials 40 times a day and are conditioned to think it is the best thing going. Read a little bit about how the Nazi propaganda worked and you will understand what I mean. Rule number one- if you are trying to sell something that is substandard, tell as big a lie about it as you can. Follow that up with a constant flow of smaller lies until you have created a demand. That's HD/Behr in a nutshell.


Thank you. You know how many times I've been asked if I was using a paint and primer in one product, or had it requested. It got to the point where I just threw HD advertising completely under the bus.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

journeymanPainter said:


> Thank you. You know how many times I've been asked if I was using a paint and primer in one product, or had it requested. It got to the point where I just threw HD advertising completely under the bus.


You're welcome. The truth is the truth. Sometimes it just takes someone with some balls to verbalize it.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> You're welcome. The truth is the truth. Sometimes it just takes someone with some balls to verbalize it.


Let's not get all hero about it. LOL!


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

PACman said:


> No it isn't! Horrible job-Home Depot/behr. Seems legit to me!


It waz about fixing a job done by a bad painter and using the wrong paint for trim not about big box vs paint stores


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

BPC said:


> It waz about fixing a job done by a bad painter and using the wrong paint for trim not about big box vs paint stores


But it always turns into that. We could be talking about boot brands, then suddenly, people are getting banned because of comments made about big box stores and BEHR. SOL!...I mean LOL!:blink:


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> But it always turns into that. We could be talking about boot brands, then suddenly, people are getting banned because of comments made about big box stores and BEHR. SOL!...I mean LOL!:blink:


I have an app on my phone that alerts me anytime someone mentions Behr on Painttalk.:thumbsup:


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

and as far as Home Depot/Behr being a "heavy hitter", anyone old enough to remember the Chevy Vega? Or Monza? Or Cavalier? Or maybe the Cobalt will ring a bell. There is a direct line between all of them. They all sold millions and between all four models account for almost 3/4 of all US auto recalls. Why did they continue building them? Because they made billions off of them that's why.

And lest any Ford fans feel left out-----PINTO!

And also, as far as Behr being number one in Consumer Reports magazine? The Vega won car of the year from Motor Trend magazine the year it was introduced and the Cobalt was almost everyone's car of the year. 129 people died before the Cobalt was recalled.

I had one of the "good" 1972 Vegas. It got almost 50,000 miles on it before a connecting rod decided it would be a neat trick to shove the entire piston through the cylinder wall. At a little over 24,000 miles, a front shock went through the fender wall and dented the hood. Going over a speed bump at 15 mph. With about 50 witnesses.

But GM made plenty of money off that little gem.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Remember the Ford Maverick?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

How about the Rambler? My mom had one. LOL!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> Remember the Ford Maverick?


just a fancy pinto. another beauty. but at least you could get a 302 in it! And it was a car of the year winner too!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

dodge aries. loverly car. made millions. and yet another car of the year!


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## GrandCitiesPainter (Oct 26, 2015)

Repaint Florida said:


> No disrespect i just think we have two different business models
> 
> your average customer and mine are just different
> 
> ...



Repaint, I use the Paint brands that my customers request. 
It's not about me, my model is to make them happy. Some customers are head strong and know exactly what they want. Others, will take the painters advice. I don't believe in forcing anything on a customer or talking them out of something they have chosen to do. 

[removed by admin]


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

GrandCitiesPainter said:


> Repaint, I use the Paint brands that my customers request.
> It's not about me, my model is to make them happy. Some customers are head strong and know exactly what they want. Others, will take the painters advice. I don't believe in forcing anything on a customer or talking them out of something they have chosen to do.
> 
> [removed by admin]


Thanks for your concern about my company, but trust me doing the amount of work we do each year & dealing with the numbers of clients we service each year i am proud of our work. 

Each year for the 9 + years I've been in business i have increased
sale & profit, built a solid company from hard work, pay my painters living wages so they can support their families & still take the time to give back to my community volunteering my company services to Habitat For Humanity & other local projects

so if i can build a business that does this i'm not going to sweat 2 or 3 "bad" reviews, trust me you don't know the true stories

So FrankThe Painter i wasn't trying to hurt your feelings on Behr paint, glad it works for you but if i could give any advice to any painter ...

if you want to increase your profit
increase the quality of your customer :thumbsup:

.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Anyone here that says they've never had a dissatisfied customer is either lying or hasn't been in business very long. There's some folks in this world that can't be pleased no matter what you do. 

And as Repaint said, no need to lose sleep over them. It's just a part of doing business.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

slinger58 said:


> Anyone here that says they've never had a dissatisfied customer is either lying or hasn't been in business very long. There's some folks in this world that can't be pleased no matter what you do.
> 
> And as Repaint said, no need to lose sleep over them. It's just a part of doing business.


happens all the time on this side. I had a guy spend 30 minutes bitching at me once about how bad our paint was. Until he realized he wasn't in the right store! After about 29 minutes of hearing him complain and trying to figure out what was going on I finally asked him what paint he had used. Promar 200. When I pointed out that we were a PPG store and SW was 3 blocks up the street he ran out the door. True story.


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## Roamer (Jul 5, 2010)

GrandCitiesPainter said:


> So you actually do turn away work, you just do it in an indirect way.


You might want to re-read my post. I said we've turned down a handful of jobs in 29 years. 

Just because we (all painters) do free estimates does not entitle us to treat our clients' time like it isn't worth anything. We (our company) operate in a busy metropolitan area populated by millions of busy professionals who do value their time.

Sorry I took so long to reply. I had forgotten I had responded in this thread.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

Roamer said:


> You might want to re-read my post. I said we've turned down a handful of jobs in 29 years.
> 
> Just because we (all painters) do free estimates does not entitle us to treat our clients' time like it isn't worth anything. We (our company) operate in a busy metropolitan area populated by millions of busy professionals who do value their time.
> 
> Sorry I took so long to reply. I had forgotten I had responded in this thread.


You forgot, or your sorry you did?


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

I get people all the time that call in and want to know what my cheapest paint is. Do I hang up on them? No. I just give them the full retail of my cheapest paint line. Without even mentioning any contractors discount. Even though I don't like people who call for the cheapest price, there may legitimate reasons for them to ask that. If I manage to discern that the caller is a professional painter then I will engage him or her about what price range she is looking for. If it's someone who is just looking for the cheapest gallon of paint regardless of everything else I have to offer as a business, I am better off letting them just keep looking.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

CApainter said:


> Remember the Ford Maverick?


I had one of them and a Cavalier company car:blink:


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## GrandCitiesPainter (Oct 26, 2015)

slinger58 said:


> Anyone here that says they've never had a dissatisfied customer is either lying or hasn't been in business very long. There's some folks in this world that can't be pleased no matter what you do.
> 
> And as Repaint said, no need to lose sleep over them. It's just a part of doing business.


Edited.


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## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

Just realized I owned most of the cars on PacMan's list. Yikes. Had a Vega (engine blew). Had a Pinto (miraculously lived without burning up in it and sold it), Had a Dodge Omni (just like a K-car) and sunk more money into that piece of junk than any painting equipment I've ever owned.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

Gymschu said:


> Just realized I owned most of the cars on PacMan's list. Yikes. Had a Vega (engine blew). Had a Pinto (miraculously lived without burning up in it and sold it), Had a Dodge Omni (just like a K-car) and sunk more money into that piece of junk than any painting equipment I've ever owned.


Haha. My wife's first car was an omni, and the last car she had before I started buy her vehicles was a cavalier


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Quote to post 114.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

journeymanPainter said:


> Haha. My wife's first car was an omni, and the last car she had before I started buy her vehicles was a cavalier


Haven't we all had one of those cars at one point or another? Were we smart enough not to buy another one? I hope so. Unfortunately a large number of people can't seem to get off the Behr paint thing. But then again, if pintos,vegas, gremlins,omnis, k-cars, cavaliers, etc. were the only cars you ever owned, and you never saw any other cars on the road, you would think they were the bestist cars ever. Case in point---the Trabant and the Yugo. Millions of them both were sold to people who had never seen anything else and could in no way afford anything else anyway. Once they had options both companies quickly quit making them. 

Here in North America we have choices, and typically crappy products get weeded out. Unless you have huge marketing behind a product. And RELABELS. Glidden has been re-labeling the same product with a new name for close to twenty years now! Every 3-4 years they come up with a new name for it.


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