# Downstreaming Was Awesome! Until it wasnt?



## Hines Painting

So I ordered the 4 pack of downstreaming tips from pressuretek and started washing the house I needed to paint on Thursday. 

It was working great the first half of the day. But when I came back from lunch it stopped working. 

Wouldn't suck up any mix at all. With the tips from PT or the black soap tip that came with my unit. The machine I have (Simpson PS4240) has a built in chemical injector that I had used previously with no problems to clean a trex deck with bleach and dawn. 

I thought it might be the parts on that chemical injector so I found the closest place to me that sold them (an hour drive each way) and went and picked up one that would connect off my line. 

That didn't work either.

I thought maybe because it was trying to suck up the old one still, so I went to the hardware store and bought a plug for the built in chemical injector, but that didn't work either. 

So, any idea on what's wrong? Is it possible the new injector I bought was broken from the get go? 

Any experience with the injector pressuretek sells that has replaceable parts? I would like to move forward with better pressure washing technology but not really sure what to do about my problem.


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## Dave Mac

the ball sticks all the time, especially if it was working then it wasn't, just stick a pick in the barb to free it up


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## ewingpainting.net

Thats a bummer, hope you get it working


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## straight_lines

Like Dave said chems used are harsh on the brass and the ball gets stuck. I have mine on a quick connect and taking it off and tapping it with something usually frees up a stuck ball. 

Remember to rinse with clean water afterwards.


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## Hines Painting

I had a pick that I stuck in and could feel the ball moving, but it still wouldn't work. I disassembled both the built in one and the stand alone one I purchsed just to make sure there was no rust plugging anything. 

I guess maybe I'll order a few replacement ball/spring/barb sets for my built in one and see if I can get it working that way. 

The thing that concerned me was that the new one I purchased wouldn't work at all, so I was wondering if there was something else I don't know about that could cause that.


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## Hines Painting

If that doesn't work do any of you have suggestions for one I could order online that you have found to work consistently? 

That is the biggest thing for me. If I want to start selling washing services I need to have parts that don't randomly break and will consistently do what they are supposed to.


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## Dave Mac

Hines a lot people don't realize that injectors are made for your gpm machine, its usually stamped on their something like 3-5 so make sure that is correct and matches the size machine your using, also make sure the arrows are pointing in the correct way, also make sure your machine is running at the correct rpm, the idle screw sometimes comes loose, and lastly if you have a belt driven machine make sure the belts are tight.


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## PressurePros

Your injector is probably shot. You cannot connect two downstreamer units in tandem, so that was never going to work. 

1. Be certain that what you have been using is a downstreamer (located after the pump). Either way, get rid if it.
2. Buy two of these rated for your machine (repeat..buy two): http://www.pressuretek.com/adamsinjector.html
3. When purchasing the downstreamer, buy a male and female quick coupler (both FPT) to put on your DS'er.Its also a good time to get some braided intake line that doesn't collapse like the non-braided does.
4. Make sure when you put on the quick couplers that your flow matches the arrows on the quick coupler.

I have had couplers be bad right out of the box and others last for months. Rinse them when your are done and keep the couplers oiled with silicone and they usually hold up well. We soak them in oxalic acid buckets every couple of days to get rid of oxidation and scale buildup. Because there is no way to know when they go, it is smart to always have a backup.


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## Roof Cleaning

I like to run with the shortest hose possible. Longer the hose the less it works. Keep everything water tight, all O rings etc. IDK what kind of setup you have but I check all my plumbing from the tank to the gun for leaks. Assuming your running the correct injector for your machine.

GRab a big wad of single dollar bills and throw them up in the air and make it rain over the injector, that has also made my injector 'put in work'...hehehe

I run a whip line off of my machine about 3 feet long to the front of the trailer. My injector attaches there to my draw line. I use the tubing that is made of the same stuff tanks are made of (polyethylene I think) for the reasons Ken mentioned. It will not kink and is very durable.


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## Paradigmzz

I have the same pressure washer also. I have the same problem. Found out that the ball inside of the downstream injector is the size of a b.b.. I lost the ball when I tried to repair it. Should have just shoved a pick in it. Put a BB in it to keep the water from flowing out during regular pressure washing. Got lots of downstreaming stuff but no idea how to make it all work. Ill be tracking your progress. I do know that since the Simpson pump has a factory installed injector, no other injectors I came across work. I visited Hotsy and some other places and was left with no good options.


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## Hines Painting

I took the factory barb/nipple off and bought a 1/8" pipe plug from a local hardware store. Basically this without the weird hole in the top. I'm on my phone so its too hard to post a picture but here's a link

www.advanceautoparts.com/mt/shop.ad...507-p?un_jtt_v_cookiecheck=on&un_jtt_redirect


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## Slopmeyer

Call Bob ar Pressure tek. And like PP says always have a back-up.


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## Roof Cleaning

Never had this happen to us:

LAst couple of cold mornings and into the dusk hours our air pump has been seizing up. I oiled it took it apart etc, was about to order a new one.

Long story short, the muffler where the air comes out was frozen solid!
Took it off and BAM she hits like a spiked bat. Got 5 roofs in today, no probs with the muffler of early this morning :no:

For you guys with All FLow air pumps....never happened with my Aro ingersoll rand pumps, but they had metal mufflers. The All Flows have a foam type muffler. 

Info may help somebody someday I guess?


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## Ultimate

Roof Cleaning said:


> Never had this happen to us:
> 
> LAst couple of cold mornings and into the dusk hours our air pump has been seizing up. I oiled it took it apart etc, was about to order a new one.
> 
> Long story short, the muffler where the air comes out was frozen solid!
> Took it off and BAM she hits like a spiked bat. Got 5 roofs in today, no probs with the muffler of early this morning :no:
> 
> For you guys with All FLow air pumps....never happened with my Aro ingersoll rand pumps, but they had metal mufflers. The All Flows have a foam type muffler.
> 
> Info may help somebody someday I guess?


I'm not familiar with the use of air pumps, but am very interested to learn. Bob's Delevan has been great, but I am always interested in learning more. If you'd share some photos with explanation of how to set it up and make it work that would be awesome.


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## Roof Cleaning

no problem, after work we are pulling down popcorn ceilings atm


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## Roof Cleaning

Ok, here are some pics.

The pump on my trailer is an All FLo 3/8, pumps at 8 or 9 gpm can't remember. The pump is not bolted down due to having to troubleshoot it the last couple outings. My hoses have pressure clamped fittings to the pump and I have never had a leak. I run half inch AG hose 300 feet to 1520/1515/2520 tips (most used). We also use 0060 noodle soap tips.

We have used this pump for about two years now without a single problem. Just started having the muffler freeze up, but I think that is because I do not have an oiler on the system. Never really needed one, but my schedule is tight now and I go out in cold weather :blink:

The other pics are of our suction hoses. The big one with the pvc filter is for the air pump. The smaller is for our down streamer. I use the large pvc pipes for easy transfer from our chem tank to our fresh tank.

You can see our ds'r in the picture with the pump, I tried to curl the hose so I could get it all in one pic.

The pump on the shelf is a ARO Ingersoll Rand 1/2 inch pump at 14 gpm. That is my back up pump. She has seen some big battles in Tampa but still will kick arse and take names. I have owned a few of these, but now I would advise the All Flo from Lori at PWP. She is a sweetheart and her father is a genius when it comes to pumps.

I run a 4090hk rol-air, due to its small foot print and low weight. You can also get repair parts and this compressor is made for heavy duty every day applications. I have 1 rigid (crap) left as back up and have sold two to some local roof cleaners that needed one on the cheap. Run dewalt synthetic or rol air synthetic and this bad boy will NEVER quite running.

That pump/compressor has (shooting from the hip) well over two thousand roofs with just oil and gas $ put in her :notworthy: never has failed me on a job except for the recent cold weather causing the muffler to freeze. Fix is an oiler...


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## Roof Cleaning

one more I guess it wouldn't fit..


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## Roof Cleaning

gotta have one of these also to keep moisture out of the pump...


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## PressurePros

I have so many issues with the 12V pumps, I think I am going to swap for air pumps. Three of my trucks have roof units in them. Tom, what am I looking at for replacing them.. $7,500 or so?


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## Roof Cleaning

Ken, 

That setup is great and not expensive at all. Think I paid about 375 for the pump. Again you can get all the replacement parts for it also.

The compressor, I highly recommend the unit I mentioned with the oil, (about 14 p/quart!) is a work BEAST. They are about 1000.

I live about an hour from Clearwater. That is where pwp is located and I just drive over. Also, I buy my tools locally and the compressor was 1200.

Most likely can find the equipment cheaper, but I'm a big advocate with supporting local business and not online. Nothing against Bob.

Ag hose you can find anywhere online cheap. Again I support my local dealers.

You will NEVER look back once you go air.


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## Hines Painting

Just so I can get some clarification before I order....

This kit from pressuretek has everything that Ken mentioned above...right?

http://www.pressuretek.com/gphidrinkit.html

So I could just order the kit and a seperate injector for my backup, correct?

And do you think this rebuild kit with the ceramic ball would hold up to bleach better? It says it is an acid kit.

http://www.pressuretek.com/gpadinrekit.html


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## Hines Painting

Roof Cleaning said:


> Ken,
> 
> That setup is great and not expensive at all. Think I paid about 375 for the pump. Again you can get all the replacement parts for it also.
> 
> The compressor, I highly recommend the unit I mentioned with the oil, (about 14 p/quart!) is a work BEAST. They are about 1000.
> 
> I live about an hour from Clearwater. That is where pwp is located and I just drive over. Also, I buy my tools locally and the compressor was 1200.
> 
> Most likely can find the equipment cheaper, but I'm a big advocate with supporting local business and not online. Nothing against Bob.
> 
> Ag hose you can find anywhere online cheap. Again I support my local dealers.
> 
> You will NEVER look back once you go air.


Is this setup just for roofs? Or do you do house washes with it as well?


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## Roof Cleaning

Do most of my house washes with it also unless it is paint prep and we have to remove oxidation/peeling paint. This is a very light and fast set up. 

Just mix up some house wash in your tank and all you will need is a garden hose with a witch hat tip. You will want a decent garden hose. I do not like to work with a fat hose (ouch) but the fatter the garden hose is the better this setup works. Be careful with a fat hose, I would never run anything but 1/2 on my air pump. Fat hoses are heavy and a pita to pull around. The point of this set up is it is very fast and easy in the hot FL sun. Also the big huge garden hose just wrecks plants if you drag it over. I get PISSED when I see someone drag a hose over grandma's flower garden. They have no chance against a fat heavy hose.

Also, you will be able to mix up some 60/40 for concrete drives/sidewalks. So long as you do not have to remove dirt. Here in FL we get black mold on drives quickly. Like a quarter of the time to clean vs pw'ng.

I don't care what you read on the net, EVERYONE down here runs 50/50 water to chloro with a cheap soap. I like TSP on roofs, not for houses unless paint prep.

We clean a TON of pool screen rooms, that is where I use my injector. You need the pw'r to blow out the gutter above the screen (hacks around here don't blow em out) and pine straw. For paver decks, the air pump with 50/50 coupled with your pw'r running a 2520 is a one two punch that knocks it out quickly.


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## Roof Cleaning

Hines Painting said:


> Just so I can get some clarification before I order....
> 
> This kit from pressuretek has everything that Ken mentioned above...right?
> 
> http://www.pressuretek.com/gphidrinkit.html
> 
> So I could just order the kit and a seperate injector for my backup, correct?
> 
> And do you think this rebuild kit with the ceramic ball would hold up to bleach better? It says it is an acid kit.
> 
> http://www.pressuretek.com/gpadinrekit.html


I have never rebuilt one, I just throw it away and get a new one.

That kit looks good to go brotha.


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## PressurePros

Hines Painting said:


> Just so I can get some clarification before I order....
> 
> This kit from pressuretek has everything that Ken mentioned above...right?
> 
> http://www.pressuretek.com/gphidrinkit.html
> 
> So I could just order the kit and a seperate injector for my backup, correct?
> 
> And do you think this rebuild kit with the ceramic ball would hold up to bleach better? It says it is an acid kit.
> 
> http://www.pressuretek.com/gpadinrekit.html


I didn't realize they had a kit.. perfect.

I wouldn't mess with rebuild kits. You'll get 50+ house on an injector.. more than a great return on the $17 for a new one.


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## Hines Painting

Ok, I wasn't sure considering my current one lasted about 6 hours of use lol I'll skip the rebuild kit.

Is there any reason I might want back up couplers and a siphon hose? Or will those last a lot longer than the injector?


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## Roof Cleaning

I bought that injector from Lori when I got the All Flo two years ago.
Only time I had to replace the suction hose was when we burnt it on the air compressor. My suction hose is long, from the trailer to the bed of my truck where my chem tank is. We always rinse it out after every use...SOP with all chem application tools/pumps

May depend upon what pressure washer you are running? We run a pressure pro 3500 @ 5.5 belt drive with a K-7 unloader. Not much of a equipment guy, again why I buy local. When I used to walk into Action Pressure (gone now, thank the fuk'n interweb) you could hear tools hitting the floor. That IMO can't be purchased anywhere and saved my ass multiple times. I don't even change my own oils..hate that side of the biz


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## PressurePros

Hines Painting said:


> Ok, I wasn't sure considering my current one lasted about 6 hours of use lol I'll skip the rebuild kit.
> 
> Is there any reason I might want back up couplers and a siphon hose? Or will those last a lot longer than the injector?


I buy everything in bulk so I have it. In your shoes, I wouldn't worry about the siphon hose they last a long time. Couplers you always need for hoses so its good to have spares around. Sometimes they fail out of the box, too.


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## DeanV

Are you guys undersizing the downstream injector? I need a new one for our 4 gpm washer. Should I get a 2-3 gpm or a 3-5 gpm model?

Also I was thinking about getting an electric pump for chemicals instead and setting up a small trailer so we do not need to load and unload all the time. Nothing as fancy as you guys have, just a 4 gpm washer, lots of hose, chemicals, etc and maybe an electric pump for chemicals instead of down streaming. 

I tore a tendon in my right arm lifting the 4 gpm washer into the truck once and it took more than a year to be able be able to through a ball without pain. Still missing my strength in that arm a bit. I do not want an employee to have the same thing happen. We always send 2 to power wash, but sometimes people still do stuff they should not or something happens and someone tries to load trucks up alone. Should save a lot of time to have a trailer ready to roll anyway so we do not have to clear out a truck or van each time.


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## Ultimate

Dean I think an electric pump is good to have for special circumstances where you need a stronger mix than can be provided from down streaming. I've used an electric for applying 1% for hosuewashing, then followed up rinsing with the gas driven pump. It has come through in a couple of times in need. Although it is an effective method, it is more work in my opinion than just down streaming alone. 

A 2-3 gpm injector. Keep a half dozen and then just be done with it for the next year or two or three. Depending how much you clean. It'll be nice to just realize you have them there with the quick connects ready to switch them out quickly.


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## Hines Painting

A 2-3 gpm injector will work for a 4gpm machine?


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## Ultimate

This is worth reading a few times to help understand things. 
http://pressuretek.com/dointekar.html

Here is an exempt from the link provided above. 

The pressure washing industry rates injectors by the gpm of the pressure washing system. These ratings are 2-3, 3-5 & 5-8 gpm. In theory this rating system works for pressure washers using about 100’ of hose. This is where the industry’s system starts to get fuzzy. You lose 1 psi of pressure per 1’ of hose in a typical pressure washing system. So even though in theory if you have a certain pressure drop with a given orifice size, they do not take into consideration the pressure drop that happens in the hose creates a back pressure that increases the psi on the outlet side of the injector. So the more hose you run on the system can create enough back pressure to make the pressure differential drop out of the 30% range causing the injector not to draw.

This situation becomes more prevalent when the gpm of the pressure washer is at the injector’s beginning gpm (i.e.: 5 gpm pressure washer using a 5-8 rated injector). In this situation it is best to use a 3-5 gpm rated injector.


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## CApainter

DeanV said:


> Are you guys undersizing the downstream injector? I need a new one for our 4 gpm washer. Should I get a 2-3 gpm or a 3-5 gpm model?
> 
> Also I was thinking about getting an electric pump for chemicals instead and setting up a small trailer so we do not need to load and unload all the time. Nothing as fancy as you guys have, just a 4 gpm washer, lots of hose, chemicals, etc and maybe an electric pump for chemicals instead of down streaming.
> 
> I tore a tendon in my right arm lifting the 4 gpm washer into the truck once and it took more than a year to be able be able to through a ball without pain. Still missing my strength in that arm a bit. I do not want an employee to have the same thing happen. We always send 2 to power wash, but sometimes people still do stuff they should not or something happens and someone tries to load trucks up alone. Should save a lot of time to have a trailer ready to roll anyway so we do not have to clear out a truck or van each time.


Geez! it appears you tore or ruptured a biceps tendon. That usually requires surgery if its your dominate arm. Been there done that. 

I have something called the "Juice Box". Is this considered down streaming or side streaming.


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## DeanV

CApainter said:


> Geez! it appears you tore or ruptured a biceps tendon. That usually requires surgery if its your dominate arm. Been there done that.


My Dr. diagnosed it a bursitis but admitted it did not present like bursitis. In the old old people paint thread, our resident experts said it did not sound like bursitis. I asked a tile setter to help me with the power washer at a job and he told me that he tore is tendon loading his table saw and described the kind of pain, healing time, etc and it was exactly the same symptoms I had. Same length of time with pain doing certain things, etc he just got a better diagnosis I think. Could be wrong, but tendon damage of some kind matches more sense with the movements that caused pain, etc.


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## CApainter

DeanV said:


> My Dr. diagnosed it a bursitis but admitted it did not present like bursitis. In the old old people paint thread, our resident experts said it did not sound like bursitis. I asked a tile setter to help me with the power washer at a job and he told me that he tore is tendon loading his table saw and described the kind of pain, healing time, etc and it was exactly the same symptoms I had. Same length of time with pain doing certain things, etc he just got a better diagnosis I think. Could be wrong, but tendon damage of some kind matches more sense with the movements that caused pain, etc.


You describe it as the upper arm, (shoulder). I ruptured both lower biceps tendon within eight years of each other, with the right arm happening within the last two years. I had surgery on that arm only. The other arm resembles a two and a half inch backer rod, but its all good.


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## DeanV

For me, the pain when from just above the elbow up the bicep muscle. It was not in the joint and did not occur when resting unless I laid on my side at night. I often sleep on my right side and could not for a few months. Playing dodgeball with teenagers was embarrassing since I could no longer throw a ball. Just when you would try to get the point before you were almost ready to release the ball, it would send pain up the arm and you would cut all power to the throw. It seems like the bicep somehow stabilizes the arm as it nears full extension on the throwing motion so you do not over extend the arm and when that kicked in in the throwing motion, shot pain through the arm. Not sure the physiology behind it all. Just know it was not fun and all my strength is still not back.


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## CApainter

DeanV said:


> For me, the pain when from just above the elbow up the bicep muscle. It was not in the joint and did not occur when resting unless I laid on my side at night. I often sleep on my right side and could not for a few months. Playing dodgeball with teenagers was embarrassing since I could no longer throw a ball. Just when you would try to get the point before you were almost ready to release the ball, it would send pain up the arm and you would cut all power to the throw. It seems like the bicep somehow stabilizes the arm as it nears full extension on the throwing motion so you do not over extend the arm and when that kicked in in the throwing motion, shot pain through the arm. Not sure the physiology behind it all. Just know it was not fun and all my strength is still not back.


This is more appropriate for the OOPEEYU thread, or whatever, but I'll continue. If you are talking about the inset of your elbow, then it does seem to be the lower distal biceps tendon. The biceps basic function, as I understand it, is during supination, or turning your hand like you're opening a door knob. If this motion creates spasm, pain or weakness while inducing resistance, it is likely a tendon issue. Hopefully its not a full rupture. After eight years, my left arm is about ten percent weaker then my right and is still not one hundred percent. It knots up real bad if I try to flex my bicep.


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## DeanV

Sounds about right. Probably not a full rupture since it is OK now, but I think it will take some intentional weight lifting to get the arm back to where it should be. Usually, my right arm is stronger than my left for sports type stuff (right handed for sports, left handed for most other things) but now my left is my stronger arm. 

Middle age is no fun, and I only barely started it.


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## Hines Painting

Well, Just an update.

Bought the pressuretek GP injector and it doesn't work. I think the simpson machine must be messing it up somehow.

I plugged the built in injector with a plug, but I think there is still a component below it in the machine. Now I have to order the factory replacements but they are back ordered.


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## Dave Mac

the two most common reason they don't work is if you put them on backwards, their is a arrow pointing for the flow, and sometimes the ball sticks, stick a pick in the barb to make sure the ball is not sticking, its probably something simple I bet


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## Hines Painting

The flow was going the right way. This is the second one ive tried that didnt work for me. The previous wasn't from pressuretek but it wouldn't draw either.

Ill mess around with it some more, but I think it might be the simpson machine.


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## Jmayspaint

My Simpson was finicky about it. One set up I had would only work about 1/2 the time. No rhyme or reason. I gave it to a buddy that uses it all the time on a Graco pump with no problems.


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## Damon T

I had an old PW that would work with injectors to save my life. It originally came with a built on which eventually failed and I never could get a reliable after market unit to work. 
Bought a new rig last year and all is good. 


Sent from my blah blah blah


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## Hines Painting

I just bought this one in September or October. Hoping I can figure out the problem since I don't want to buy another and its too late to return this one I think.


Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Tapatalk


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## Hines Painting

New update. Finally got a replacement factory spring/ball/nipple and it still won't draw any chemicals. 

This thing is a nightmare. At least the actual pressure washing works, I guess. 

I'm gonna call corporate tomorrow and hopefully get a return authorization number so I can be done with the thing.


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