# Dtm



## paint_booger (Jul 1, 2007)

I've been having GREAT sucess with DTM on metal front doors. Has anyone had any problems with the acrylic DTM?

PB


----------



## Brian (Apr 10, 2007)

We've been using a lot of DTM acrylic. The only problem we've had is that hidden rust seems to creep out, if that makes any sense. 

We've been using it on a lot of wrought iron over the past year. The wrought iron is hollow, and many of the joints are welded, so they aren't sealed. The rust creeps out from the joint. We've been trying to treat the areas with GEM Rust Killer, but it is hard to get to.

Our contract is covering this, as it is an inacessible area, but it's annoying to all involved. Other than that, we are thrilled with it.

We are using it mostly on wrought iron, with metal doors second.

Brian Phillips


----------



## paint_booger (Jul 1, 2007)

There are many builders who buy the cheapest "primed & painted" rails out there. The best offer a 12 year guarantee against rust. They use galvonized steel, dip them, & use powder electrostat, (Plus a quality elamel coating etc.) 

http://www.doityourself.com/stry/commgalvnizedfence

The others spray them. Simply spraying the rails doesn't get the "Rust Inhibitive" primer in the nooks and crannies. They are liable for the rust floating out of these gaps! You also need to use the Alkyde DTM. It is the only Sherwin Williams product that calls itself ... "Corrosion Resistant". The Acrylic doesn't. Make the SW dealer come out, and show him this post ... print it!

To cover your ass ... legaly and contractualy ... Recomend that the fence manufacturer seal the fence properly by ensuring EVERY surface of metal is coated with the "Rust Inhibitive" primer, or seal the gaps completely with silicone caulk prior to painting. 

It's not the painter's fault for the rusty rails! Also concider taking a CIP class. 

http://www.nace.org/nace/content/education/Certification/cip/CIPIndex.asp

GURU


----------



## paint_booger (Jul 1, 2007)

I was thinking more along the lines of bubles while painting in the sun light.


----------



## Brian (Apr 10, 2007)

paint_booger said:


> There are many builders who buy the cheapest "primed & painted" rails out there. The best offer a 12 year guarantee against rust. They use galvonized steel, dip them, & use powder electrostat, (Plus a quality elamel coating etc.)
> 
> http://www.doityourself.com/stry/commgalvnizedfence
> 
> ...


I totally understand what you are saying and agree with it. We are in a repaint situation, usually when the wrought iron is 4 to 8 years old. It was painted poorly to start with, and then the owner neglected it. They want us to make it look like new, even though rails have rusted away and the lawn crew hits it with the weed wacker every week.

I've not had significant issues because I point all of this out and cover us contractually. It's just unfortunate that people spend so much money on wrought iron and it looks good when it's installed. Then a year (or less) goes by and it looks like it's spent a year under water. They want us to work miracles but don't want to pay for a miracle worker.

Last month I turned down a $20K wrought iron job because the HOA wanted an unreasonable guarantee against rust. A few weeks ago I drove by and the crew was spraying the wrought iron, and the contact person was sitting in a lawn chair watching them. I'm glad a avoided that disaster.

Brian Phillips


----------



## paint_booger (Jul 1, 2007)

There are 2 completely different animals ... "rust inhibitive" and "corossion resistant". The Red-Oxide primer is cosiddered "rust inhibitive", but you must topcoat with a "Corossion Resistant" paint. The Corision Resistant paint "resists" the rust ... but only to a point. proper maintenance must be done to ensure the integrity of the coating. If the dripping rust is not cleaned off the paint coating, it will help deteriorate the paint finish. It's a little like leaving salt on your car. It eats the finish! 

I think your problem is more one of the fence rusting from the inside out. No one primed or painted the hollow core of the posts, and the rust is dripping out and deteriorating your product. Plus ... DTM Acrylic doesn't say "Corossion resistant". Only the Alkyde does. Try the alkyd. 

And Bummer for the client. Educate yourself in the techniques used with powder, electrostat, and dipping vs ... cheapo sprayed rails. Then, educate your customers. 

(Clear sylicone caulk can help with the bleeding rust ... but cheap rails are cheap rails.)

pb


----------



## Brian (Apr 10, 2007)

paint_booger said:


> There are 2 completely different animals ... "rust inhibitive" and "corossion resistant". The Red-Oxide primer is cosiddered "rust inhibitive", but you must topcoat with a "Corossion Resistant" paint. The Corision Resistant paint "resists" the rust ... but only to a point. proper maintenance must be done to ensure the integrity of the coating. If the dripping rust is not cleaned off the paint coating, it will help deteriorate the paint finish. It's a little like leaving salt on your car. It eats the finish!
> 
> I think your problem is more one of the fence rusting from the inside out. No one primed or painted the hollow core of the posts, and the rust is dripping out and deteriorating your product. Plus ... DTM Acrylic doesn't say "Corossion resistant". Only the Alkyde does. Try the alkyd.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info. I agree that the fence is rusting from the inside out, which is what makes it so frustrating for everyone.

Thanks again. You may be a booger, but you know some good stuff. 

Brian Phillips


----------



## paint_booger (Jul 1, 2007)

Been there ... done it ... 

Half of th Chicago exterior is stone ... the other half is iron. 

PB


----------



## paint_booger (Jul 1, 2007)

But, DTM ... any probs with it? Ive painted Operating rooms with it, when it first came out in the early 90's. Thank GOD I haven't been back to chech on it. I painted the stables with it before the Kentucky Derby with it ... but haven't been back to check. Has anyone seen it chip?

(Sounds like your prob was tith the rail guy ... and the guy who bought them. Not the paint.)

I like the stuff! If ya can't wash it off your hands ... it's gotta be good ... right?

PB


----------



## Joewho (Apr 17, 2007)

I painted apartment trim with it ONCE.


----------



## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

paint_booger said:


> If ya can't wash it off your hands ... it's gotta be good ... right?
> 
> PB


Yeap! That is really one of the ways I can tell a good paint from another. If it don't wash off easy after a days work then it works! :thumbup:


----------



## EricTheHandyman (Jan 29, 2008)

I use latex DTM on metal doors, the only problem is it dries quickly so you have to be a speed demon, especially on raised panel doors.


----------



## britten (May 26, 2008)

no problems at all dtm has a great bond


----------



## Bushdude (Apr 17, 2007)

Used a ton of it repainting door bucks on occupied hospital wings, dries fast which is great but some hated the stink more than oil base....


----------



## paint_booger (Jul 1, 2007)

It sounds like drying fast is good and bad, but i'm sure we all agree the stink is bad. Joe used it on interior trim ... I wonder if it was for a home owner ... stinky paint rates bad with them. 

Any stories of metal garage doors, and salt? How does the stuff hold up after a few years against the elements?


----------



## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

i paint factories w dtm


----------



## Formulator (May 28, 2008)

Brian said:


> We've been using a lot of DTM acrylic. The only problem we've had is that hidden rust seems to creep out, if that makes any sense.
> 
> We've been using it on a lot of wrought iron over the past year. The wrought iron is hollow, and many of the joints are welded, so they aren't sealed. The rust creeps out from the joint. We've been trying to treat the areas with GEM Rust Killer, but it is hard to get to.
> 
> ...


 
Acrylics just won't hold up on metal like an alkyd will.


----------

