# Level 5 drywall primer?



## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

What is your goto primer?
Has anybody ever used USG Tuff Hide?


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

Gardz. Especially over a level 5 because it really soaks in the skim coat.


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## AlphaWolf (Nov 23, 2014)

I have used TuffHide. Used it on custom homes where the drywaller did not do a good job to say the least. Its not maid to prime a lvl 5 ceiling as much as its made to take a lvl 4 to a lvl 5. If your trying to just prime a lvl 5 drywall its not needed at all.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

AlphaWolf said:


> I have used TuffHide. Used it on custom homes where the drywaller did not do a good job to say the least. Its not maid to prime a lvl 5 ceiling as much as its made to take a lvl 4 to a lvl 5. If



So how good does it work? Will it hide minor dings? How much point up do you have to do first to get lvl 5? Seriously considered trying this product lately, lotta lotta hours being burned up skimming.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

ProWallGuy said:


> Gardz. Especially over a level 5 because it really soaks in the skim coat.


Gardz is good stuff but its too thin. It would only highlight the flaws. I need a problem solver.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

AlphaWolf said:


> I have used TuffHide. Used it on custom homes where the drywaller did not do a good job to say the least. Its not maid to prime a lvl 5 ceiling as much as its made to take a lvl 4 to a lvl 5. If your trying to just prime a lvl 5 drywall its not needed at all.


Yep. Thats what I need to do.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

It looks like you really need specific spray equipment that can atomize this material through a .031 tip, at 2000 psi. Definitely a production material that cuts out a step in the level five process of drywall finishing. 

A product like this might bring back smooth walls to an otherwise textured California.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Ya, wondering if my 1095 can hack it.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Bender said:


> Ya, wondering if my 1095 can hack it.


According to the Tuffhide TDS, your 1095 is one of the recommended pieces of equipment rated to pump the primer/surfacer.


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## Repaintpro (Oct 2, 2012)

Bender said:


> Ya, wondering if my 1095 can hack it.


It should do this type of work all day.


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

Bender said:


> Gardz is good stuff but its too thin. It would only highlight the flaws. I need a problem solver.


Gotcha. When you said it was a lvl 5, I assumed it was already a lvl 5 and didn't realize it was lacking in some way.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Yeah, the drywaller keeps calling it a 'poor mans' level 5.

:blink::laughing:


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## ttalbon (Aug 6, 2009)

Does that mean its level 3?


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

What a pain making a product raise a 4 to a level 5. Maybe by dumping a ton of Tuffhide and sanding.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

At the risk of stating the obvious, Tuff Hide and other high-build primer surfacers will only hide the, "innies", not the, "outies". It'll hide dents, dings & scratches, but not so much for visible joints, seams, photographing.


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## robladd (Nov 22, 2010)

I believe the question should be do you want to do a level 5 with a 24"
blade or a .031" tip.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

robladd said:


> I believe the question should be do you want to do a level 5 with a 24"
> blade or a .031" tip.


In terms of applications that have a best practice, it would appear that a level five by trowel or knife, followed by a compatible and appropriate drywall primer, would indeed be the preferred method. However, like all the other production products that help reduce labor time, primer /surfacers like Tuffhide will find their place in an industry that enables time saving methods that appeal not only to budget minded contractors and their customers, but also to the DIY market.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Actually it looks like my 695 would pump it, though just barely. Its rated at .95 GPM, only .05 short of the recommended 1 GPM and it will support a .031 tip. I'm going to have to give it a try soon :thumbsup:


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

Jmayspaint said:


> Actually it looks like my 695 would pump it, though just barely. Its rated at .95 GPM, only .05 short of the recommended 1 GPM and it will support a .031 tip. I'm going to have to give it a try soon :thumbsup:


Just be careful....




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT8CRi9k4bo


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

SemiproJohn said:


> Just be careful....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Lol. I'm no stranger to maxing out my pumps. I've sprayed HS polly with a 395 for Pete's sake.


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## 804 Paint (Jan 31, 2014)

Will TuffHide fill pocks? If so it might be good stuff to keep on hand. 

Edit: I just saw that the only application method is spraying. Could the stuff possibly be rolled and sanded?


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

804 Paint said:


> Will TuffHide fill pocks? If so it might be good stuff to keep on hand.
> 
> Edit: I just saw that the only application method is spraying. Could the stuff possibly be rolled and sanded?
> 
> ...


It can be rolled. Read a little farther on the TDS. 

"Note: May be roller applied for use as a high-solids, primer paint coat. Use a high-quality roller, with 1/4"- 3/8" nap roller cover on smooth surfaces. Apply to a wet film thickness (WFT) of 5-10 mils." 

It would be an interesting challenge to apply at 10 mil with a 1/4" nap roller


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## Jay23 (Oct 23, 2014)

You can roll tuff-hide but it defeats the purpose. Here in the NY met area depending on the finish I use either tuff-hide sprayed only to achieve the proper film thickness or we skim coat the walls & ceilings with USG Gold labeled compound and prime with FPE Swedish brushing putty & then we sand like madmen lol. See finished product below using tuff hide to begin my level 5 finish


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## 804 Paint (Jan 31, 2014)

Jay23 said:


> You can roll tuff-hide but it defeats the purpose. Here in the NY met area depending on the finish I use either tuff-hide sprayed only to achieve the proper film thickness or we skim coat the walls & ceilings with USG Gold labeled compound and prime with FPE Swedish brushing putty & then we sand like madmen lol. See finished product below using tuff hide to begin my level 5 finish
> View attachment 38345



Nice work!

I guess it could defeat THE purpose but things can be used for other purposes as well. Like a problem area where you are not necessarily trying to achieve a level 5 but where it might be faster to roll and sand this stuff out than do a skim coat. I mentioned pocks but that doesn't begin to cover some of the stuff I've seen in newer homes lately. 


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## Jay23 (Oct 23, 2014)

USG also offers "first coat" it is the brush & roller brother to tuff-hide for areas like your speaking of. It is also less money.


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## 804 Paint (Jan 31, 2014)

Jay23 said:


> USG also offers "first coat" it is the brush & roller brother to tuff-hide for areas like your speaking of. It is also less money.



Found at big box stores I presume?



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## Jay23 (Oct 23, 2014)

Lol I wouldn't be surprised if it is, but any independent dealer who knows anything about what you guys do for a living should carry it. I get it from my BM dealer, honestly I only shop the big boxes for my personal garden supplies...


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## 804 Paint (Jan 31, 2014)

I hear ya…I get anything I can at my BM dealer first. I just haven't seen First Coat on the primer shelf. Gardz isn't either but they have it in the back.


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## robladd (Nov 22, 2010)

In the South West Hamilton Prep Coat Plus is what I have used on Large Commercial. Level 4 to achieve a level 5.


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## SwatchDeck (Mar 15, 2014)

acrylitex smooth wall primer is our go to. Super easy to sand and cheep cheap.


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## AlphaWolf (Nov 23, 2014)

SW high build primer may work for you i have also used that as well.


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## paintball head (Mar 3, 2012)

Jmayspaint said:


> It can be rolled. Read a little farther on the TDS.
> 
> "Note: May be roller applied for use as a high-solids, primer paint coat. Use a high-quality roller, with 1/4"- 3/8" nap roller cover on smooth surfaces. Apply to a wet film thickness (WFT) of 5-10 mils."
> 
> ...


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

ProWallGuy said:


> Gardz. Especially over a level 5 because it really soaks in the skim coat.


Agree! Plus it makes the soft joint compounds hard like plaster and is more resistant to dings.


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## paintball head (Mar 3, 2012)

mudbone said:


> Agree! Plus it makes the soft joint compounds hard like plaster and is more resistant to dings.



So it makes the mud hard? Hard like a bone? :whistling2:


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

Anyone had experience with SW Builder's Solution Surfacer? Curious to hear some feedback on that.

Edit:
Guys over there said it's their equivalent to the tuff hide.


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

And as far as the gold label. From usg website: "Northwest availability only."


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## paintball head (Mar 3, 2012)

SW gave me a couple fivers to try, it is they're version of (TH) high build primer. I didn't think it leveled out as nice as the USG Tuffhide.


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

paintball head said:


> SW gave me a couple fivers to try, it is they're version of (TH) high build primer. I didn't think it leveled out as nice as the USG Tuffhide.


I had my suspicions about it, figured that was that probably the case. 

Did you have to sand it at all and how did that work out? 

I figure price wise it's probably a little cheaper, so just curious to hear feedback on it.


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## paintball head (Mar 3, 2012)

Tuffhide sands ok if you get a high spot, I sand it before topcoating as I do any other wall without Tuffhide just to clean off any rough areas. The SW I don't remember, we sprayed that on the garage walls. It was priced a bit lower than USG.


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