# Your process of achieving a lacquer-like finish on trim?



## GCpaint (Jan 10, 2015)

Hi guys.

What do you do to achieve a white lacquer-like finish on trim?

I've seen some trim in some builds that is really impressive. Finish is really smooth and hard without being overly shiny.

Can this be achieved with standard wood trim?

Thanks for your insight.


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## two fingers (Sep 28, 2014)

I don't want to sell anything to you, but Sw has a white lacquer there is now a undercoater avalible for that lacquer. I've had great success with it. Sand between coats and your golden.


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## PremierPaintingMa (Nov 30, 2014)

This is a good product by BM you can only spray it on no brushing.
Waterborne lacquer.


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## PremierPaintingMa (Nov 30, 2014)

If you want to make it easy on your self use BM Advance Satin looks great sand between coats.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Sanding, lots of sanding. Repeat.


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## JoeAntilla (Mar 14, 2014)

Minimum 2 coats of finish product.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

GCpaint said:


> Hi guys.
> 
> What do you do to achieve a white lacquer-like finish on trim?
> 
> ...


Obviously, spraying a high gloss material will come the closest to a smooth lacquer finish. Even a finish coat of a clear polyurethane over a cured coating will give a durable and glossy smooth finish. 

What sheen are you shooting for, and what is the performance you seek?


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## GCpaint (Jan 10, 2015)

CApainter said:


> Obviously, spraying a high gloss material will come the closest to a smooth lacquer finish. Even a finish coat of a clear polyurethane over a cured coating will give a durable and glossy smooth finish.
> 
> What sheen are you shooting for, and what is the performance you seek?


We're focused on high-end specs and customs.

Really need to find that sweet spot between performance and price.

We use a TON of trim and moldings down here in the Gulf states, even in the lower end specs.

Mostly concerned with doorway trim and cabinets because that is what the customer really focuses on and can touch. Would like it to be tough with just a little sheen. Like egg shell but smooth. Cannot have brush marks.

Is any additive necessary or recommended? 

The women are going crazy for the "white" designs right now so everything is some shade of white.


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## PremierPaintingMa (Nov 30, 2014)

GCpaint said:


> We're focused on high-end specs and customs.
> 
> Really need to find that sweet spot between performance and price.
> 
> ...


I would really go with BM Advance it's good for Cabinets too easy to touch up the advance satin has lower sheen than others, the longer it dry the harder it get, the more they touch the crazier they get


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

GCpaint said:


> We're focused on high-end specs and customs.
> 
> Really need to find that sweet spot between performance and price.
> 
> ...


You really are alluding to a spray application. I would agree with PremierPaintingMA, that the BM Advance would provide the finish and performance you seek. 

Note: You have the opportunity to spray a sample swatch to show the customer a final result. It would probably take you a total of one hour from start to clean up, in your garage.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

For price to performance and looks BM advance is really hard to beat. There are a lot of other coatings that are more durable but to apply them at get it to look as good would mean a lot more labor.


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## Sustainable in OR. (Dec 30, 2010)

Ever tried a Urethane Modified Acrylic like XIM Cabinet Coat?
Try a quart in Satin sheen.
Spray or brush it out on some samples like indicated above. Full cure in 5-7 days .
Advance lays out nice, but takes what seems for ever to get a good hard cured surface. 
Just my .02 cents worth here.


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## rwransom (Aug 7, 2013)

Perhaps SW ProClassic waterborne hybrid. Lays down smooth and cures faster than Advance.


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## cardwizzard (Sep 13, 2010)

Acid catalyst paints provide outstanding results Imo 

Sent from my D5503 using PaintTalk.com mobile app


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Cabinet Coat is nice for spraying. I find it more forgiving than advance. Advance give me trouble through airless, but fine through hvlp. 

I have had neutral base advance take an eternity to cure out. White, not so much of a problem.


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## paladinpainter (Sep 10, 2014)

Pro classic Oil. This is what I use. I add penetrol to it and it always brushes nicely and there are no brush marks. Looks like it was sprayed.


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## PremierPaintingMa (Nov 30, 2014)

DeanV said:


> Cabinet Coat is nice for spraying. I find it more forgiving than advance. Advance give me trouble through airless, but fine through hvlp.
> 
> I have had neutral base advance take an eternity to cure out. White, not so much of a problem.


Hi DeanV!
Can you please explain how is it giving you trouble through airless?
Does it run?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

DeanV said:


> Cabinet Coat is nice for spraying. I find it more forgiving than advance. Advance give me trouble through airless, but fine through hvlp.
> 
> I have had neutral base advance take an eternity to cure out. White, not so much of a problem.



I like the application and performance of Advance, even though it takes a while to cure. It's kind of like a through back in that way.

However, I have had serious micro air bubbling on a door application. The bubbles could be better described as micro craters. Has anyone else had this problem after rolling with a "Weenie" roller? I'm suspecting air was drawn into the paint when I strained it while lifting the fine screen strainer bag out of the bucket. Then again, it may have been all of the forced air on it that didn't allow the bubbles to pop and level.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I was getting runs. The tack coat then spray a full coat seemed to help, but it still wanted to show a fat edge at the bottom edge of each rail above the panels on 6-panel doors.

I am certain it is doable with Advance, just different enough that it gave me some grief. We brush advance fairly often and like that just fine. For us, we have a had a couple times hiding power was and issue, but that sounds we are one of the few who have had an issue their. Linen white, iirc.

I do not recall micro bubble issues, we have micro rolled it a bit. Micro bubbles when using the mini rollers seems to be a more sporadic thing for us with trim enamels. Not confined to a particular product, just happens every once in a while.


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## STAR (Nov 26, 2010)

PremierPaintingMa said:


> This is a good product by BM you can only spray it on no brushing.
> Waterborne lacquer.


That product was suggested to me by one of my suppliers. Can you provide any feedback? What have you used for topcoat?


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## JoeAntilla (Mar 14, 2014)

I had the micro bubbles once with Advance on horizontal surfaces. I figured is was from me spraying too heavy a coat. Never really looked into it much, I just apply the recommended wet mil thickness now without any issues.


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## two fingers (Sep 28, 2014)

Those are all great paints but still white lacquer is the best


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## PremierPaintingMa (Nov 30, 2014)

DeanV said:


> I was getting runs. The tack coat then spray a full coat seemed to help, but it still wanted to show a fat edge at the bottom edge of each rail above the panels on 6-panel doors.
> 
> I am certain it is doable with Advance, just different enough that it gave me some grief. We brush advance fairly often and like that just fine. For us, we have a had a couple times hiding power was and issue, but that sounds we are one of the few who have had an issue their. Linen white, iirc.
> 
> I do not recall micro bubble issues, we have micro rolled it a bit. Micro bubbles when using the mini rollers seems to be a more sporadic thing for us with trim enamels. Not confined to a particular product, just happens every once in a while.


I thought you where going to say that, I had that problem long time ago when I just start to use it than i had to go back to the old way, I always do a tack then spray a full coat I use the Titan Pro finish or the Graco 395 Pro with 310 tips i found 310 to be better the 312 or higher, I use Advance on 90% of my works.


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## PremierPaintingMa (Nov 30, 2014)

CApainter said:


> I like the application and performance of Advance, even though it takes a while to cure. It's kind of like a through back in that way.
> 
> However, I have had serious micro air bubbling on a door application. The bubbles could be better described as micro craters. Has anyone else had this problem after rolling with a "Weenie" roller? I'm suspecting air was drawn into the paint when I strained it while lifting the fine screen strainer bag out of the bucket. Then again, it may have been all of the forced air on it that didn't allow the bubbles to pop and level.


Hi CApainter!
If you are using the Foam roller you may get the air bubble some times.
I use the micro fiber than light back brush.


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## PremierPaintingMa (Nov 30, 2014)

STAR said:


> That product was suggested to me by one of my suppliers. Can you provide any feedback? What have you used for topcoat?


I use cover stain oil primer.
They have primer too.
I prefer to use 5 to 6 stage HVLP to spray this product, or Air assisted sprayer with fine finish tip for trim 208 doors 308.
You do not need to thin this product it is very thin.
Hope this help.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PremierPaintingMa said:


> Hi CApainter!
> If you are using the Foam roller you may get the air bubble some times.
> I use the micro fiber than light back brush.


I never have the micro bubbles when I lay off with a brush. I also never use foam rollers. I really think I introduced air into the paint by straining it. I've had micro bubbles with other paints when I've rolled, and they basically dried the same way. I probably should have let the paint sit for a bit before rolling.

I still like Advance as a finish, and in its ease of application. I've yet to spray it, but I'm certain it will look good. Occasionally, I do roll out doors rather than lay them off, but I prefer a brush or spray finish.


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## PremierPaintingMa (Nov 30, 2014)

CApainter said:


> I never have the micro bubbles when I lay off with a brush. I also never use foam rollers. I really think I introduced air into the paint by straining it. I've had micro bubbles with other paints when I've rolled, and they basically dried the same way. I probably should have let the paint sit for a bit before rolling.
> 
> I still like Advance as a finish, and in its ease of application. I've yet to spray it, but I'm certain it will look good. Occasionally, I do roll out doors rather than lay them off, but I prefer a brush or spray finish.


I spray every time i get the chance, if i am not spraying i use brush, personally i don't like roller finish on doors if i roll i will brush back.


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## gabe (Apr 20, 2012)

We too like Advance for most high end trim jobs . For commercial and normal trim jobs I like Ultra spec semi gloss. These products look great sprayed and can also be brushed with good results. 

However, lacquer does have the nicest finish . I would check out ML Campbell. You can use their primer and then either pre or post catalyzed pigmented lacquer. You could even spray a clear over it. This is what cabinet companies use. They do not brush making touch ups and areas that are hard to get gun in hard to take care of. They are highly toxic, smelly and flammable . You will need special exhaust fans . This product works best in a professional spray both. Also this stuff dries very fast making the overspray dry in the air. The overspray can land on sills and shelving causing rough areas.


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## propainterJ (Jan 31, 2011)

two fingers said:


> Those are all great paints but still white lacquer is the best


How do you touch up white lacquer?


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## gabe (Apr 20, 2012)

You have to re spray it


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## JoeAntilla (Mar 14, 2014)

propainterJ said:


> How do you touch up white lacquer?



I have our paint supplier put some of the lacquer on a spray can for small touch ups. Anything bigger I borrow a friends ProShot. That is as long as the pot life is longer than 8 hours, which the conversion varnish I sometimes use isn't.


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## two fingers (Sep 28, 2014)

propainterJ said:


> How do you touch up white lacquer?


Foam brush if you have to. Goal is to achieve perfection. There is no tuch up.


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## gabe (Apr 20, 2012)

Our BM advance finishes are very close to a lacquer finish without having to use a high voc and flammable and hard to touch up product. I can use a red whiny roller and touch up and repaint the trim down the road. I cannot over caution you on using lacquer in a house.


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## two fingers (Sep 28, 2014)

gabe said:


> Our BM advance finishes are very close to a lacquer finish without having to use a high voc and flammable and hard to touch up product. I can use a red whiny roller and touch up and repaint the trim down the road. I cannot over caution you on using lacquer in a house.


True but you're not going to achieve a lacquer finish


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

two fingers said:


> True but you're not going to achieve a lacquer finish


I beg to differ. I can, my guys can, and I've seen a lot of other PC's work that looks just as good as lacquer with various enamels. It's not that difficult really. Plus I don't like how opaque lacquer holds up on wood trim long term, I call it lacquer-cracker. The only good thing about lacquer is how it will clear out other trades quicker than a fire drill.


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## paintpimp (Jun 29, 2007)

two fingers said:


> I don't want to sell anything to you, but Sw has a white lacquer there is now a undercoater avalible for that lacquer. I've had great success with it. Sand between coats and your golden.


Do you have the numbers off the cans that you use for this system?


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## GCpaint (Jan 10, 2015)

gabe said:


> I can use a red whiny roller


What is this?


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## gabe (Apr 20, 2012)

Wooster makes a red velour whiz type cover that makes a very smooth finish.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

gabe said:


> Wooster makes a red velour whiz type cover that makes a very smooth finish.



Yeah, the "red feather". I always thought that was a funny name.


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## gabe (Apr 20, 2012)

Makes a nice finish. Sorry, I did not know the name of it, my guys just tell me to get the red ones.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

gabe said:


> Our BM advance finishes are very close to a lacquer finish without having to use a high voc and flammable and hard to touch up product. I can use a red whiny roller and touch up and repaint the trim down the road. I cannot over caution you on using lacquer in a house.





GCpaint said:


> What is this?


It's a little roller that bitches a lot. :whistling2:


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## PremierPaintingMa (Nov 30, 2014)

slinger58 said:


> It's a little roller that bitches a lot. :whistling2:


Hahaha!
You're a riot slinger58.


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## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

314 sprays just fine drys quick and very hard. I've done a ton with Advance and like it but has its issues.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

thinkpainting/nick said:


> 314 sprays just fine drys quick and very hard. I've done a ton with advance and like it but has its issues.


314?


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## PremierPaintingMa (Nov 30, 2014)

slinger58 said:


> 314?


BM Satin Impervo.


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## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

Waterborne Satin Impervo ...nit the tip size:no:


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## PremierPaintingMa (Nov 30, 2014)

I figure that out after few second, i thought you where responding to my previous post on the second page post#23. that why i said first tips size.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Never tried the acrylic Satin Impervo. I've used a lot of the alkyd Satin Impervo over the years. Finally moved to the Advance and have been pleased with it. 

Hard to teach an old dog new tricks, but when the alkyd went to $60+/gallon, even this old codger knew it was time to try the new stuff.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

I was doing some tinkering around the shop today with advance, and thought it would be a good opportunity to illustrate my point that Advance satin can be applied to look as good as a comparable sheen lacquer finish. It's all in the prep work....... First coat goes on and I end up with an ugly spit from releasing the trigger over the piece:






Time to break out the 600 grit wet/dry to polish it down to:






Then one more sprayed coat (390, 310ff, ~2000psi), allowed to dry:






Here is what the whole piece looks like, it's a reclaimed medicine cabinet






Case closed.


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## PremierPaintingMa (Nov 30, 2014)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> I was doing some tinkering around the shop today with advanced and thought it would be a good opportunity to illustrate my point that Advance satin can be applied to look as good as a comparable sheen lacquer finish. It's all in the prep work.......
> 
> First coat goes on and I end up with an ugly spit from releasing the trigger over the piece:
> 
> ...


Me likey :thumbup:


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## JoeAntilla (Mar 14, 2014)

Spits=arghhh!


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Unless you're "feathering" the trigger, a spit is a gun malfunction, not operator error.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

slinger58 said:


> Unless you're "feathering" the trigger, a spit is a gun malfunction, not operator error.


the gun has been occasionally spitting upon releasing the trigger lately. It's well overdue for a thorough cleaning. I've just been procrastinating because I can make it work as long as I don't release the trigger over the work.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

Looks awesome. Really impressed with Advance. Now if they could only make it cure faster, I'd be head-over-heels in love with it.


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