# Shakes



## Jtpaintalot (May 4, 2011)

Hey everyone , I have a fairly large amount of cedar shakes to pre spray. (3800 sq) going with Bm arbor coat. One coat both sides with graco fine tip. 312 . And I'm thinking about spraying them on sheets of plywood or 2x6. And then flip them the next day or 2 . Anyone have a better quicker way of spraying both sides? I'm not dipping them as they are to be semi solid and Benmoore is pricy. I need ideas peeps!


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## Jtpaintalot (May 4, 2011)

Oh and then in spring I'm spraying 2nd coat in place.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Last time we had to do this for cedar shingles, we knocked together some quick-and-dirty racks out of 2x4s and 1x2s. We built a 4' x 8' frame out of the 2x's and then screwed a bunch of 4-foot 1x2s to the frame, spaced about 3/4" apart. After we coated them, we slipped the top end of the shingles into the gaps to dry.

We actually prefer dipping, since it allows us to get both sides at once. We rig up a stain brush to the side of the container so we can drag each face of the shingle or shake over the brush after dipping. That removes the excess stain and allows it to drip back into the container.

When we've had a bunch of smaller items like this to spray, we've draped 4-mil visqueen between some horses, fastened them together with some 1x's and run tie-wire between the tops of the horses to support the items being sprayed. That avoids having the items sitting in a pool of material as happens when they are sprayed on a sheet of ply. The visqueen "tub" contains the worst of the overspary.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

I did this once, we set up a 4x8 rack system, nailed all the shakes (up high above exposure line.) we could to a 2x3x8, we made the rack with hangers so we could just hang the 2x3 and sprayed one side, we spun the 2x3 around and sprayed the second side. We made a few smaller hanging racks to put the shakes until they dried. This is a lot of work to do and if I had to do it again I would dip them, much faster and like Gough said have a brush handy.


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## 1963 Sovereign (Dec 14, 2011)

why a fine finish tip? sounds like you wont be putting on enough material with that tip,or have to go nice n slow...did you price it nicely?


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Shakes?Try a few beers in the morning!:whistling2:


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I know you said no to dipping but that is how it should be done.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

One tidbit that I forgot to mention: check the moisture content of the shakes when you get them. I can't remember if we've had a problem with shakes (split) , but I know we've gotten shingles (sawn) that were so wet that we had to rack them to let them dry out before we could stain them.


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## premierpainter (Apr 17, 2007)

That is a ton of shakes to be spraying, flipping and drying. Dunk em in and let em dry.
Hope that you have a lot of space to let them dry, because that is a lot of shakes


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

You guys that dip these, can you explain your method?

What do you fasten them to while dipping and drying, etc?


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

TJ Paint said:


> You guys that dip these, can you explain your method?
> 
> What do you fasten them to while dipping and drying, etc?


TJ, we haven't done anything fancy. We use racks like I described earlier in the thread. We grab a shingle or shake by the top edge, dip, remove the excess with a stain brush fastened over the container of stain, stick the shingle in the rack, and repeat. 

A few days of that and I start to wonder if I wasted those nine years in college.

EDIT: I'm really hoping that the OP really meant 3800 square feet, NOT 3800 square. That 100-fold mistake would be a killer.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Gough said:


> TJ, we haven't done anything fancy. We use racks like I described earlier in the thread. We grab a shingle or shake by the top edge, dip, remove the excess with a stain brush fastened over the container of stain, stick the shingle in the rack, and repeat.
> 
> A few days of that and I start to wonder if I wasted those nine years in college.


We assign that task to the employee whose mental toughness needs to be sharpened most.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Same as Gough but instead of racks hang them with clothes pins on a line by the narrow end. God awful job as many have stated. I have horrible memories of being a young painter dipping in oil all day long on a hot summer day. Makes me sick thinking about it.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Tip dont dip!


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

mudbone said:


> Tip dont dip!


muddywaters


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## Jtpaintalot (May 4, 2011)

Hey again! Thanks for helpful ideas with racks, I will think about which path I'll go with exactly. I don't want to dip cause it's semi solid and pricy Benmoore! I'm going with arbor coat so at least no oil fumes. And I'm in a big shop with no floors. And yes it's 3800 sq feet so I'll be there awhile! My grunt will be sore after this one! Me spray they move them. Lol


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Jtpaintalot said:


> Hey again! Thanks for helpful ideas with racks, I will think about which path I'll go with exactly. I don't want to dip cause it's semi solid and pricy Benmoore! I'm going with arbor coat so at least no oil fumes. And I'm in a big shop with no floors. And yes it's 3800 sq feet so I'll be there awhile! My grunt will be sore after this one! Me spray they move them. Lol


The semi-solid ArborCoat is nice stuff. We just finished up an exterior using it. 

By dragging them across a brush, most of the excess stain is removed. After the last batch we did, we came up with some possible improvements. One idea would be to slide the dipped shakes between a pair of opposed brushes, removing the excess stain from both sides at once. I'm not sure if you'd end up wasting any more this way than you would spraying. Besides, the TDS recommends back-brushing in any case.

Are they really shakes (split with lots of texture), shingles (sawn), or "sidewall shakes" (sawn shingles that have been machined grooved)?


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## Jtpaintalot (May 4, 2011)

Oh they are sawn shingles, red cedar from local mill. And there are 13,000 shingles I figured! I've set up sawhorses and planks to spray and used 9 gallons in about 9hrs of spraying/ moving shakes. We've made a small dent in the pile this weekend spraying with fine tip to limit overspray and use minimal stain is going well but still going to cost huge$$$ so I'm switching to an oil base primer to seal them and them spray topcoat with arbor coat in the spring in place. That is all!


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Jtpaintalot said:


> Oh they are sawn shingles, red cedar from local mill. And there are 13,000 shingles I figured! I've set up sawhorses and planks to spray and used 9 gallons in about 9hrs of spraying/ moving shakes. We've made a small dent in the pile this weekend spraying with fine tip to limit overspray and use minimal stain is going well but still going to cost huge$$$ so I'm switching to an oil base primer to seal them and them spray topcoat with arbor coat in the spring in place. That is all!


JT, I think you may be asking for trouble with that approach because of saponification of the primer. I think most oil-base primers start to break down if they're exposed to the elements for more than a few weeks. You'd be ahead of the game to hold off applying anything, then bleaching them in the spring before staining.


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## Jtpaintalot (May 4, 2011)

Ya that was a worry of mine. I'm in a bit of a pickle cause the contractor wants these pre sprayed to avoid cupping ect and he has a budget of around $5300 for this pre staining. And at the rate I'm going with arbor coat it would total approx $3000.00 for stain alone. Then I have my labor of 2 peepes plus myself for at least a week! Going to phone reps in morning at clov and general paint and Sherwin to see what options I have for raw cedar. Any one else have any ideas? Quick! Lol I'm also going to see if gc will increase budget to 6k. The spraying part is going better than I thought at least


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## Jtpaintalot (May 4, 2011)

Plus it all has to have the semi solid look and many brands do not have this choice!


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

I agree with spraying them, rather than dipping. Once they're all set up on the racks, it will take no time to blast a coat on them.:thumbsup:


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## 1963 Sovereign (Dec 14, 2011)

and would they get a quick back-brush then,or call it good enough?


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

1963 Sovereign said:


> and would they get a quick back-brush then,or call it good enough?


Benny Moore says that they should be back brushed....


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Jtpaintalot said:


> Ya that was a worry of mine. I'm in a bit of a pickle cause the contractor wants these pre sprayed to avoid cupping ect and he has a budget of around $5300 for this pre staining. And at the rate I'm going with arbor coat it would total approx $3000.00 for stain alone. Then I have my labor of 2 peepes plus myself for at least a week! Going to phone reps in morning at clov and general paint and Sherwin to see what options I have for raw cedar. Any one else have any ideas? Quick! Lol I'm also going to see if gc will increase budget to 6k. The spraying part is going better than I thought at least


Your numbers can't be right. No way that would be 80 gals of stain. If the contractor can't afford it let someone else half ass it.


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## Jtpaintalot (May 4, 2011)

Actually I will go through about 80 gal. I've already gone through 20 gal and another 10 I would say tomorrow to complete the first skid. I'm shooting all edges and sides. And I'm thinning too. Rough cedar soaks up alot of stain. Over 13,000 shingles. I agree contractor needs to cough up more if needed and he's good for it. He's my biggest customer to. I switched to a reg graco tip though with the oil base. So it's using up a bit more stain. I was a little worried with it bleeding through without an oilbase primer anyway.


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## Jtpaintalot (May 4, 2011)

As for back brushing I will do that on top coat with arbor coat as soon as they are in place.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

JT, I'm confused about two things (actually, I'm confused about a lot of things, but two things on this subject). One, if the point of using semi-solid versus solid is to allow some of the substrate color to show through, don't you defeat the point by priming? If you've got to prime, why not go ahead and use a solid? Secondly, I thought the point of back brushing was to ensure that the substrate was totally wetted by the material. If the first coat of stain wasn't back brushed to accomplish that, what's the point in back brushing the final (field) coat? If you're only back brushing one coat, I think it makes more sense to do that on the first coat. That guarantees a better bond between paint/stain and primer.


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## Custom Brush Co. (Jan 26, 2011)

I thought semi-trans coatings were a one coat seal. A 2nd coat will hide the color even more if not going solid. If going solid, why prime?

Wracking my brains on this post too...


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## Jtpaintalot (May 4, 2011)

I know its kind of pointless to brush, I will most likely just spray second coat, I'll see what it looks like before I back brush. And I had no other options but prime. I'm thinning down as much as possible and basically just misting shakes so they r still semi solid i wish I could have just used the arborcoat I started with but it would have been $3000-4000 k! I didn't have any other options my reps couldn't guarantee no bleed through with any hybirids ect. And my gc seems ok with the mix of semi/ solid look. It was his bloody designer that wanted the semi look in first place. And it's his own personal house. Any way can't wait to finish these damn shingles! We r finished one of the 3 skids !


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