# Brushing out entire walls...?



## blackstone (Nov 30, 2008)

Hey guys, any thoughts on this one?

A client is having a new home built, and is requesting that all painting be done "by hand" ie. no rollers. The drywall will be class 5 throughout the home, and all surfaces are supposed to receive brushed finish only. 

Has anyone heard of this type of painting finish? The client is European... Is this common over there? Does this mean primers would be brushed over fresh mud as well? weird, eh?:blink:

Any tips or advice for this unusual request would be appreciated....!


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Cut and roll is perfectly suitable for level 5 finish.


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## tsunamicontract (May 3, 2008)

rollers are still held with your hands. Where does it stop becoming painted by hand? If you used your foot? Well yah, I wouldn't want you to paint my home with your foot either. To paint by hand do you need to finger paint? I wouldn't want that either. If it has to be by hand can you roll and back brush for the brush strokes?


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

Hand finished always means to me no spraying. I can understand no spraying but no rolling????


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## eddie (Jul 10, 2008)

blackstone said:


> Hey guys, any thoughts on this one?
> 
> A client is having a new home built, and is requesting that all painting be done "by hand" ie. no rollers. The drywall will be class 5 throughout the home, and all surfaces are supposed to receive brushed finish only.
> 
> ...


I have done plenty of these we generally roll and lay it of with a 6 inch stock brush but this only really works well if you are applying oils to the wall make sure you allow for this it is slow


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## blackstone (Nov 30, 2008)

*...no rollers allowed!?!?!?!*

I've done alot of class 5 walls, and vermont you're right, cut and roll is the way to go, so that's why this is a mystery to me.

This is a VERY large residential project, and this brush only thing is odd indeed.

Tsunami I think you're roll and back-brush idea is a good one though...

Maybe spray and back-brush too...

Anyways, thought I'd see if anyone's heard of this type of thing. Guess not!


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## blackstone (Nov 30, 2008)

eddie said:


> I have done plenty of these we generally roll and lay it of with a 6 inch stock brush but this only really works well if you are applying oils to the wall make sure you allow for this it is slow


 
Thanks eddie, that make sense. If I'm using latex, do you think added glaze might help, or maybe a reduction with water and FLoetrol??


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

Why would they want this??


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

they are stupid. Or you misinterpreted what they said they wanted.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I have seen a few older homes where you can see that the walls were brushed once upon a time. One painter I used to work with started painting before rollers were invented, so he used to brush everything (not once rollers came out though). Someone was telling me about their father-in-law who still brushed out ceilings in his house but used a roller on the walls. The house must be going for an old school, historical look, but then why do a level 5 finish? I went through a couple historical homes in Appomattox VA this month that had brushed walls.


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## eddie (Jul 10, 2008)

blackstone said:


> Thanks eddie, that make sense. If I'm using latex, do you think added glaze might help, or maybe a reduction with water and FLoetrol??


Floetrol will work with one guy rolling and one guy laying it of maybe you could talk the HO into spraying the primer coat as it won't effect the brush look to the walls


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## blackstone (Nov 30, 2008)

nEighter said:


> they are stupid. Or you misinterpreted what they said they wanted.


neither of these is the case... the clients are extremely wealthy, and specifically requested that the walls be "brushed out". 

Apparently they don't like the look of rolled walls, and I guess they are going for a historical look.....


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## daren (Jul 5, 2008)

buy a 6" brush, give them what they ask for and charge accordingly.


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## blackstone (Nov 30, 2008)

eddie said:


> Floetrol will work with one guy rolling and one guy laying it of maybe you could talk the HO into spraying the primer coat as it won't effect the brush look to the walls


 
eddie, would the back brusher being laying the paint off in big vertical strokes, randomly, or in any other type of pattern???


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

blackstone said:


> neither of these is the case... the clients are extremely wealthy, and specifically requested that the walls be "brushed out".
> 
> Apparently they don't like the look of rolled walls, and I guess they are going for a historical look.....


guess that may have sounded snoooty.. level 5 then dumb it down with brush marks:blink: Guess I just don't understand why someone would do that.


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## eddie (Jul 10, 2008)

blackstone said:


> eddie, would the back brusher being laying the paint off in big vertical strokes, randomly, or in any other type of pattern???


Either will do, do some samples ask the HO what his preference is.I agree with the previous post if they want it handpainted do it and price accordingly


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

When I have seen it, the brush marks run vertical.


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## EricTheHandyman (Jan 29, 2008)

eddie said:


> , do some samples ask the HO what his preference is.I agree with the previous post if they want it handpainted do it and price accordingly


This is what I was thinking, show them some samples, make sure you get serious coin for the extra work.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

When I started in the early 70's, the "old school" mentality was that brushed paint gets worked into the surface better than a roller. 

I can understand why this could have been a PERCEPTION especially with oil on raw plaster. But I think years of successful rolling has proved the fallacy. And certainly, brushed paint isn't going to get worked into a painted surface any better than rolled paint. AND with latex, brush work on large surfaces will not look as even as a roller work. 

Going back a few more years, calcimine was the standard for plaster ceilings, and that was always applied with a large brush, but it leveled so no brush marks showed - or at least when properly applied, that happened.

I think the HO in this instance had a preconception based on the "old school" thinking. 

I like rolled walls and ceilings because I like a FLAT looking coating. Sometimes even the stipple-ish look of a roller drives me nuts, but at least it's better than brush marks.

Being European, I bet the are being influenced by the old school look. 

Perhaps our UK brethren could add input as to the preference on the other side of the pond.


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## TooledUp (May 17, 2008)

What do you think painters used before rollers and sprayers were around  

I would guess that you probably heard the client right. It's not called for a lot over here but it isn't unheard of. Stately homes and very high end work often call for brush only finish.

I did a lot of high end work in hotels in the 80's and 90's. All of the walls were papered but the ceilings had to be brushed. I would use either a decent 6" or 7" pure bristle brush with a copper stock. You would be suprised how superior the brush finish is compared to roller - You get a really level/flat finish!

There is a technique to brushing a large area (switching). The brush paint is laid off in different/alternate directions - Don't lay it off all in the same direction! . It can take a bit of getting used to but speed and technique build up with a little practice. Keeping a wet edge is your biggest hurdle. If you can get two of you on an area then all the better. Some dark water-borne colors can leave a suede effect with brushing so try to avoid those as much as you can.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

They are European - probably looking for that brushed on oil type finish. There is this brush that mainly only plasterers use now a days called a 'Dutching' brush - it's like very thick and 7" wide. The unions all they ever did was brush walls with a Dutch Brush. You cut and then lay on the paint in vertical direction just like a roller. Rollers are a new fangled invention of the 20th century.


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## tsunamicontract (May 3, 2008)

I would be worried about getting kicked off that job if I showed up with a sprayer. I would roll 3/4 nap and brush with this monster!


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## 1977corey (Feb 27, 2009)

tsunamicontract said:


> I would be worried about getting kicked off that job if I showed up with a sprayer. I would roll 3/4 nap and brush with this monster!


Ha, i think your WORRIED about using a sprayer, period.:whistling2:


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## tedrin (Oct 22, 2008)

blackstone said:


> Hey guys, any thoughts on this one?
> 
> A client is having a new home built, and is requesting that all painting be done "by hand" ie. no rollers. The drywall will be class 5 throughout the home, and all surfaces are supposed to receive brushed finish only.
> 
> ...


What is this,1920?..Seriously,if they want you to brush the walls RUN away from that job ..


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

The two processes that are being discussed - vertical and random brush patterns - in todays world are more commonly referred to as strie and crosshatch which are significantly more labor intensive than rolling and generally classified as more decorative finishes than standard paint fare.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Blackstone, I would pounce on that job! How exciting!

If you do get the project please post some pics. Sounds like a brilliant opportunity.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

:yes: And use oil base primer and wall paint for more open time.


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## tsunamicontract (May 3, 2008)

1977corey said:


> Ha, i think your WORRIED about using a sprayer, period.:whistling2:


No, I use my sprayer all the time. In fact I have 3 of them. But part of being a professional is knowing when is the right time to use the right tool. If a client is requesting a hand done finish and saw you showing up with a sprayer . . .




tedrin said:


> What is this,1920?..Seriously,if they want you to brush the walls RUN away from that job ..


:no:




vermontpainter said:


> The two processes that are being discussed - vertical and random brush patterns - in todays world are more commonly referred to as strie and crosshatch which are significantly more labor intensive than rolling and generally classified as more decorative finishes than standard paint fare.


Make sure you determine what the clients desired look. Maybe make some sample boards. I have seen both vertical brush and random brush patterns as well as scalloped brush patterns on walls and ceiling.



Bender said:


> Blackstone, I would pounce on that job! How exciting!
> 
> If you do get the project please post some pics. Sounds like a brilliant opportunity.


:yes::yes: I would love to try a project like that



vermontpainter said:


> :yes: And use oil base primer and wall paint for more open time.


I would brush the primer too as backrolling it will start building roller stipple. Might be able to get away with thinning primer and rolling with a foam roller cover but if a heavier brush stroke look is desired you might as well start building that in the primer coat.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Just like Eddie said. 

We have done plenty of oil walls. Cut and roll and backbrush ...usually down only with a 6-8inch brush. Being European are you sure they understand the use of latex for wall finishes? The only reason I could possible think they would want that is for a faux finish. And most of the faux guys here will tell you oil bases are no longer needed. Sell them on the advantages for rolling over level 5 (touch up qualities) and using a latex.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Unless spraying with no backrolling might be an option?


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## tsunamicontract (May 3, 2008)

Bender said:


> Unless spraying with no backrolling might be an option?


for a primer coat maybe, would take a very careful spray hand and I strongly feel that all first coats and usually 2nd coats of anything on raw substrate need to be back ______ something in to provide proper adhesion and coverage.


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

When I started painting I worked for an old timer that never sprayed. He did cut and roll walls, but he told me that all walls used to be brushed.

I would be hesitant to apply a finish in a huge brand new house for a high end client using a technique that you not only aren't familiar with, but that isn't even used in this part of the world.

Certainly do as much research as you can. I would tell him that it is virtually unheard of in this country, and that no one does it that way.

Tell him that you would be more than happy to apply it that way, but that you wold like to start with a small room to get an idea of the time involved.

In reality this will provide you opportunity to try the process without committing to a price or a time frame, or even a guaranteed result.

He will be inclined to look at the room as soon as it is done and if it meets his approval then you can go from there.

If it doesn't then you can opt out of the job without messing up the walls in the rest of the house, and you haven't ruffled his feathers because you told him beforehand that the technique is unheard of in these parts, so no one is familiar with it over here.

Being very upfront about your lack of experience with the method is your best bet. You may risk losing the job, but at least you eliminate the possibility of a customer being really angry at the end result.

If you put a bunch of brush marks in those walls that don't look how they are "supposed to look", it's likely the walls will have to be floated and painted all over again.


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

I have also seen evidence of this in older homes, and when I started out I had an instructor have us do a couple of rooms this way. When I did them on my own, it was to lay off a eggshell oil finish - thinned right it is absolute perfection. 
Doing it with todays products is senseless at best, near impossible in reality. It's got to be a slow dryer.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

If you are going to use a latex try adding this:

http://www.adicolor.com/Faux-Finishing-Paint-products/

It's a great glaze, lots of open time and flows/levels very well.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

The only time I have brushed entire walls is applying suede finishes, and it goes at faux rates = $$$. I do maybe a half a dozen a year, and while the pay is great, it sure feels good to get back to a decent roller.

I think if you know how to do it and the customer is willing to pay, go for it. It would take a lot of money for me because I could do a few jobs that may pay better and be faster during that time period. Depending on your finances you may want to consider how this type of job would affect your cash flow.


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## ParagonVA (Feb 3, 2009)

I think you should use one of those monster pans and a push broom, what the hell? At least you wouldn't have to attach a rolling pole...

What finish are they going for? Have fun if it's anything other than flat. I agree about using an extender and a huge brush, (not the pushbroom though:blink. Are there any 2-story walls or other long walls? Oil-base might definitely be the way to go like others have stated...good luck.


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## wmass (Apr 17, 2007)

*Brushes*

When I started painting they still used to brush out some walls. they used a lot of oil flats and losheens and it was a really a nice finish. I still have a builder the does reproduction homes and restorations that wants the plaster walls and ceilings brushed . ( just change the price) I like the black nylon Purdys over the XL polys cause they are a little stiffer but they ars getting hard to find , Corona made a nice one to.


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## TooledUp (May 17, 2008)

Doing as Scott says and oil priming will give you more wet edge time. Unless you're doing flat/flush doors DON'T lay off vertically - It WILL look a mess. Use random (switch) brush strokes and tell the client to stick to light/mid-light colors. Buy yourself one or two of these (a must). Try to have two of you on larger ceiling areas or high walls. Add on around 3 - 3.5 x labor time than you would brush cut and roll or work by the hour. 

Believe me, I have done a heap of wall and ceiling brushing and this is the way to go. Eventually you will be able to do it without the oil primer (better finish) and your speed will pick up.


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## eddie (Jul 10, 2008)

blackstone said:


> Hey guys, any thoughts on this one?
> 
> A client is having a new home built, and is requesting that all painting be done "by hand" ie. no rollers. The drywall will be class 5 throughout the home, and all surfaces are supposed to receive brushed finish only.
> 
> ...


The last complete house I hand painted was in 1997 it was for a couple from Belgium,there was an architect,designer and Cambridge Historical Society to deal with. this house was in Harvard Square Cambridge Mass.The spec for the painting was one coat oil primer two coats oil eggshell we used wooster 6'' china bristle [you wont get better superb]They wanted us to mix the colour ourselves witch we did,there was plenty of owatrol used and a massive amount of tack rags/paint strainers used.We done this job on t/m and it worked out perfect.One of the most important things is to have no trades working while your there because oil eggshell will not touch up.If they want it hand painted and they know what there about they wiill use oil, any way the best of luck


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## mikemb72 (Dec 13, 2011)

*brush only is premiere finish*

for sheetrock walls, a brush only finish is the premiere finish available.

what a brush does that other application methods cannot accomplish:

roller: will always shed some lint into the finish. roller will always leave some kind of stipple. if you roll and backbrush you are still going to have tiny chunks from the roller nap ending up in the finish. A roller cannot obviously get into the corners, so a cut in effect will always be visible with rolling.

spray: raw sheetrock is very porous. spraying lacks the ability to work material into the pores of the substrate. If you spray enough primer to bridge all the tiny pores , you will end up with an orange peel effect that is similar to a rolled look.

with brushing you can get a finish 100% free of "chunks", as long as you keep your bucket and brush very sanitary. As long as you brush thoroughly and evenly ,avoiding any sags or holidays, you will end up with an unmatched finish.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

mikemb72 said:


> for sheetrock walls, a brush only finish is the premiere finish available.
> 
> what a brush does that other application methods cannot accomplish:
> 
> ...


Who cares tbh.


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## RaleighPainter (Jun 13, 2011)

mikemb72 said:


> for sheetrock walls, a brush only finish is the premiere finish available.
> 
> what a brush does that other application methods cannot accomplish:
> 
> ...


You brush walls?? Remind me not to ask for your insight with any production related scenarios. Wow.


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## In Demand (Mar 24, 2008)

I wish I would have known this earlier .......


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

daren said:


> buy a 6" brush, give them what they ask for and charge accordingly.


 
That would be my thought also, you are getting paid, what difference does it make if yoy are just brushing and not rolling? If this rich client wanted a brushed look ,I would be in there with my 2 1/2 brushing away might even go with a 1 inch


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

In Demand said:


> I wish I would have known this earlier .......


 Me too, just think of the usless hours spent not doing it properly:blink:

Just think of ALL the painters here and ALL the useless hours( you could even say lifetimes) spent NOT painting all walls with a brush, not to mention ceilings


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## mpminter (Mar 21, 2011)

I mentioned in another thread that I have heard of this but I have never seen it. The guy I know that does it uses a scallop technique on historic homes around Williamsburg, VA. I would actually love to try it just for the experience, but it honestly sounds exhausting. I think if I spent and entire 8-9 hour work day dragging oil with a 7" monster brush, I would be wiped out.


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## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

We used to do a lot of brush jobs years ago, many older folks just didn't like the look of a rolled finish. The last few years I've been doing quite a bit of work with a designer who likes to use faux finishing techniques - including brushy stuff. It's actually fun and exciting to see the final product.


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)




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## In Demand (Mar 24, 2008)

I don't know if I can get people to pay me $8000 to paint a bedroom that has a good chance of looking kinda flashy and streaky in spots.


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

When I first got started in the business there were still a lot of flat & eggshell oils available. It was becoming less common to brush ceiling and walls, but some 'ol timers still did it. Most of these painters were painting before the advent of rollers, or at least decent ones. What you have to remember is these products were MUCH different than the acrylics and latex paints we use today on ceilings and walls. They spread like butter with a 4" china bristle wall brush. Two guys could brush a ceiling in no time. I'm not saying it was easy, but it is not as hard as you would think with the right products. Not only that, it covered really well, rarely would a repaint need a primer or second coat. Discoloration from smoking and even minor water stains could be covered many times in one coat. We still use a brush finish on some walls with a alkyd satin, semi-gloss or even gloss, but it is not that common and with the oils gradually going away less common all the time. I honestly can't imagine brushing walls on any sort of scale with the products available today and have it be productive or cost effective. I'm not even sure you would end up with an overall better finish. The products have too little open time. I can remember coming back the next morning and the ceiling you painted the day before in the morning with the alkyd flat still had some wet spots!
In Europe where the oils were popular and products like Fine Paints of Europe, it was common to leave a brushed finish on walls and even ceilings. I do not know if that is still the case.
If you have never worked with alkyd flats for painting ceilings and walls it is hard to imagine or appreciate how brushing was productive. Painters had forearms that looked like Popeye!


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

I often enjoy reading your posts Cliff.


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## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

In Demand said:


> I don't know if I can get people to pay me $8000 to paint a bedroom that has a good chance of looking kinda flashy and streaky in spots.


couple years ago I did three bedrooms and a bath in a Victorian style where the HO wanted faux finshes on all rooms. Problem was she couldn't decide what she wanted even tho I gave her 3' X 4" samples on drywall. One room got done 6 times ! She paid me almost 6 Gs and was happy as a clam with the end result.:thumbup:


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## In Demand (Mar 24, 2008)

My right arm looks like Popeyes, but it's not paint related


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## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

In Demand said:


> My right arm looks like Popeyes, but it's not paint related


ameteaur ! I learned years ago to use both left and right !:thumbup:


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

In Demand said:


> My right arm looks like Popeyes, but it's not paint related


master the brush.
bait the old guys into revealing their old school ways.

:whistling2:


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## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

WisePainter said:


> master the brush.
> bait the old guys into revealing their old school ways.
> 
> :whistling2:


I'm always telling my guys - I'm too old adawg to be f&^%ed by a pup !


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Nobody uses flat or eggshell oil paints anymore for interior.

Nobody brushes out acrylic paint on walls or ceilings (they dry too fast and you can have 4x the productivity using 20th century rolling technology). 



This thread...


I worked for an oldtimer painter that told me about breaking his right arm so he had to learn how to cut in with his left. I started using both hands for cutting in. Wow.


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## mikemb72 (Dec 13, 2011)

*Brushing a wall is not really that hard*

All painters cut corners in with a brush. Well you just keep going across the entire wall with the brush. Its not really that hard. Try it. Sort of like brushing out a boat hull. Just dip the brush, lay it on the wall, then spread it out, working it back into the areas already painted.

The rich guy requesting "brushed only" knows what he is talking about and he knows what he wants. He will find someone willing to do it.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

In Demand said:


> My right arm looks like Popeyes, but it's not paint related


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## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


>


okay, now I want to know how you got my picture on here ?!:blush:


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## Lee Decorating Corp. (Oct 6, 2011)

Cliff, you descibed what I always heard from my Grandfather.
As I was not a member of this site when this thread was active, I kept reading for the end result. It was like reading a good book with the last page ripped out.  I guess that is why I now read from a Kindle.


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## CK_68847 (Apr 17, 2010)

blackstone said:


> neither of these is the case... the clients are extremely wealthy, and specifically requested that the walls be "brushed out".
> 
> Apparently they don't like the look of rolled walls, and I guess they are going for a historical look.....


If they are going after the old look a level 5 finish wasn't worth the time. They should have just went with plaster then. They could have probably even added a little texture to the walls, since they went the sheetrock way, to make the walls look imperfect. If they are going for old and historical that is. Brushing out an entire wall on level 5 finish is going to look horrid. I would tell them to take their job and shove it, or send your worst painters there because its going to look like crap anyways.


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

Lee Decorating Corp. said:


> Cliff, you descibed what I always heard from my Grandfather.


I've been doing this a long time. Started as a kid and grew up in the business. Hopefully though, I'm not as old as your grandfather


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## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

CliffK said:


> I've been doing this a long time. Started as a kid and grew up in the business. Hopefully though, I'm not as old as your grandfather


 me too. more I read the older I feel.


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## mikemb72 (Dec 13, 2011)

*level 5 sheetrock is not a historical finish*

I've been doing some research into this. It seems in the days when walls and cielings were brushed the preffered products were "distemper" and "calcemine" paints not oils. These were early water based paints. The brushes were 6" and it was done floor to cieling. Oil was not used on walls because it was not compatible with the plaster that was used pre-sheetrock.

level 5 sheetrock is not a historical look. This client is looking for something in the catagory of faux finishing.


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## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

Oh Oh Bill's gonna be postin another "necro" pic here soon !


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Scotiadawg said:


> Oh Oh Bill's gonna be postin another "necro" pic here soon !


 
must be takin a nap:yes:


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

6 inch brushes Mike? Man I just saw grandpa sell a couple of those at his garage sale last summer. Those were clubs.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

One time I painted a bathroom ceiling by brush.

It kinda sucked but I saved $2.25 on a cover...


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

T.j. Dont shake my hand. Your forearms are probably massive from the workout. Haha.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Zoomer said:


> T.j. Dont shake my hand. Your forearms are probably massive from the workout. Haha.


Naw, from scraping as a helper for a few years...


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## mikemb72 (Dec 13, 2011)

Zoomer said:


> 6 inch brushes Mike? Man I just saw grandpa sell a couple of those at his garage sale last summer. Those were clubs.


those are used for a lime wash on walls. thats what he wants. he's thinking of an old plaster look. if he has level 5 new walls then he has to do a faux finish to make it look like old plaster. all that stuff is coming back right now. lime washes and distempers. the stuff went on thin with a large brush.


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## HSpencer (Jan 21, 2012)

blackstone said:


> neither of these is the case... the clients are extremely wealthy, and specifically requested that the walls be "brushed out".
> 
> Apparently they don't like the look of rolled walls, and I guess they are going for a historical look.....


Well, just my opinion on this. I am terribly old school on painting, and this is the way it always used to be done. In the case of walls, I would use a 5 inch calcimine brush of very high quality (charged to the job) and I would cut in with a 3 inch high quality brush which I would already have.

This would be an awful lot of arm work, and if the client was willing to pay the bill for it, well, I would go for it and tell them it won't be a speedy job.

After slinging a 5 in block brush most of the day your going to be pretty spent out. It just all depends if the client is going to pay for it. In the old days, we used to have those 4, 5 and 6 inch block brushes for ceilings and siding. If you have never used one (all day) your are going to be a little weary getting up the next morning.


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## mikemb72 (Dec 13, 2011)

*Description of how flat walls were painted from 1902*

Quote from text of: "Painting and Decorating" [manual dated 1902]

"Flatting" was the term used to describe the painting of walls with a mixture of terpentine and pigment[usually white lead, wich was brushed over the previous coat of tacky linseed oil paint:

Quote:

"140 PAINTING AND DECORATING. 

colour must be very thoroughly mixed and strained, and re- 
strained, and it is preferable to allow it to stand for a few hours 
after mixing, so that the commingling of the ingredients may be 
the more complete. For flatting large surfaces, two, three, or 
four men will be necessary, according to the height of the surface 
to be flatted. To ensure the joints being invisible, great care 
must be taken that the edges of the work do not commence to 
set. Each flank of wall must be continued without interruption 
from start to finish. The work should be commenced at the 
right-hand top corner, each man taking just as deep a section as 
he can well attend to. The top man should start first and keep 
half-a-yard in advance of the next man below him, who will take 
up and complete the work of the man above, immediately he 
leaves it for the next half yard. This method of working avoids 
collision and splashes or damage to the work below. In work- 
ing, every part must be well and evenly covered by the paint 
brush, and then regularly and evenly dabbed with the stippler. 
The stippler must not be trusted to, to spread the paint. 
The stippler has already been described in tho chapter on 
brushes, and is here illustrated in various shapes (Fig. 54). 
Those provided with reversible handles are preferable. The 
bridge-handled stippler is preferred by many for ceiling work. 
The stippler must be used with only just sufficient force to get 
to the colour and produce a regular and uniform granulation 
of the surface, and must be used squarely so that the bristles 
are always at right angles to the wall when the brush strikes it."

end quote


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## champer71 (Mar 12, 2012)

i recently was talking to my mother about the previous painter that painted , 1/2bath, laundryroom & kitchen. she mentioned several times how long it took him. i thought she was complaining only because she was paying him b.t.h. the man brushed everything, could not figure out why! but the man did a REALLY nice job though.


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## champer71 (Mar 12, 2012)

mikemb72 said:


> Quote from text of: "Painting and Decorating" [manual dated 1902]
> 
> "Flatting" was the term used to describe the painting of walls with a mixture of terpentine and pigment[usually white lead, wich was brushed over the previous coat of tacky linseed oil paint:
> 
> ...


 Boy, we have it easy don't we!


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## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

TJ Paint said:


> One time I painted a bathroom ceiling by brush.
> 
> It kinda sucked but I saved $2.25 on a cover...


lol, in hindsight...


Im not sure i would really want to take a job where all the walls were done handbrushed..that would suck


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

i worked on a high profile historic building about fifteen years ago. i dont want to say where-but think 1776. The specs called for a brush finish on the walls. It was supposed to be done historically. We worked three men for three shifts brushing out walls. Practicality caused all parties involved to forgoe that clause in the contract and we brushed and rolled the rest. For economic reasons if nothing else the days of brushing out walls were gone before i ever picked up a brush.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Scotiadawg said:


> Oh Oh Bill's gonna be postin another "necro" pic here soon !



I'd be posting necro posters every day with the rebirths of this thread.

Also, in respect to the memory of TooledUp, who posted early in this thread, I will refrain.


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## robladd (Nov 22, 2010)

champer71 said:


> Boy, we have it easy don't we!


Yes we do! This reminds me how stucco sand (color coat) is hand troweled over brown coat.

As in the man power and technique in which it is done by professional plasterers.

The stippler would be the texture man if that is the effect you are going for.

Truly painting and plastering are brother and sister finish trades by this historical document.


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## mikemb72 (Dec 13, 2011)

*"Laying on Distemper"*

heres another quote from "Painting and decorating", the manual dated 1902. this one refers to "distempering", another instance of the brushing out of walls and cielings. "Distemper" was the general term early water based paints, wich were a mixture of glue size and "whiting",[ I believe thats calcium carbonate?] in water and tinted:

quote:

"Laying on Distemper. When putting on the finishing dis- 
temper it should be laid on boldly, freely, and equally, with a 
light free sweep of the brush. It does not require crossing or 
spreading. Each brushful of colour should be expended on its 
own little space, and left as finished, before taking another dip. 
Never attempt to use a second coat over ordinary distemper. 
If unsatisfactory, wash off and recommence. See that the pre- 
paration of the work has been properly attended to, as on this 
more than on anything else depends the finished effect ; but 
when actually laying the finishing coat, go right ahead, put the 
distemper on and leave it to dry out with confidence in the 
result. Use the portion of the brush nearest the tips of the 
bristles, and do not bang the ceiling with the whole side of the 
brush ; an amateur may be recognised at once by the slap, 
dab, bang, bang motion that he invariably adopts. Lay off 
quite indiscriminately in all directions, as long as the distribution 
is equal over the whole surface. The great difference between 
painting and distempering is that, whereas paint needs spreading 
on barely, distemper requires laying on fully and freely. Pay 
particular attention to the stirring of the distemper, as some 
tinting colours (as blues) will rise to the surface, and others (as 
reds) will be heavier than the whiting base, and sink to the 
bottom of the bucket or can. If the distemper has been made 
with hot size, and stirred while chilling, the necessity for stirring 
during use will be done away with, fvs the size will hold the 
particles in suspension as soon as it becomes a gelatinous mass ;"


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

mikemb72 said:


> Quote from text of: "Painting and Decorating" [manual dated 1902]
> 
> "Flatting" was the term used to describe the painting of walls with a mixture of terpentine and pigment[usually white lead, wich was brushed over the previous coat of tacky linseed oil paint:
> 
> ...





mikemb72 said:


> heres another quote from "Painting and decorating", the manual dated 1902. this one refers to "distempering", another instance of the brushing out of walls and cielings. "Distemper" was the general term early water based paints, wich were a mixture of glue size and "whiting",[ I believe thats calcium carbonate?] in water and tinted:
> 
> quote:
> 
> ...


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## mikemb72 (Dec 13, 2011)

*RE:brushing out entire walls*

After looking into this case from every angle imaginable and taking into account all information provided, I think if I were looking at this job I would just have one simple question for the client:


"WHY DO YOU WANT THE WALLS BRUSHED?"


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## mikemb72 (Dec 13, 2011)

*Thats about it for this thread*

Well, looks like thats about it for this thread.
I've done enough research into this question to come up with the bottom line to this:
The original poster said a customer was asking for "brushed only"
walls on level 5 drywall.
Bottom line is that "brushed only" is simply not compatible with level 5 drywall.[unless???]

The PDCA specifies rolling as the standard for a "Level 5 painting finish" wich is standardized to be compatible with the Level 5 drywall.

So this leaves us with the unanswered question as to why a customer would want this?

It seems there are only two possible rationales, besides simple eccentricity on the part of the client for why they would want "brushed only"

1. Its a historical project.[ But this would not fit with Level 5 drywall.]?

2. Some kind of unspecified faux finish they want wich is brushed?

But we are not getting the answers to these questions, so my final advice would be to hold off on a job like this.

Looking into historical painting techniques wich utilized brushing only is a very interesting line on inquiry, however, it begins to be off the original topic.

It seems that the "old fashioned" brushing methods over plaster was done to an extremely high standard in those days, possibly even exceeding todays "5 level" standardization, wich is interesting from the standpoint of someone practicing the Painting Trade.

Possible fodder for a new thread?


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