# First large commercial job.



## BoondockPaints (Nov 14, 2018)

My experience is in residential re-paints but a friend of mine bought a building and I agreed to take a look. Turns out it's a 7,000 sq ft shop with ~18' ceilings. Corrugated steel and metal truss. Normally I might pass on a job of this size/scope for fear of getting in over my head, but my friend is laid back and he wants me to handle it. Also, I have time to prepare while he clears the area, so what better opportunity to expand my skill set?

My initial thought was to wrap electrical outlets/junctions/lights/etc., and power wash everything (it is absolutely filthy). Then prep any holes in the block with epoxy or mortar and spray everything. The floors are getting resurfaced at a later date so I'm not too worried about prepping those. 

This seems way too simple and I know it's not, so what am I not seeing? I have a couple helpers and a decent budget for supplies (i.e. scissor lift rental, new sprayer (Titan 440/Graco 395 currently),or whatever else I'm not thinking of.

Any suggestions or advice from the commercial guys?


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## kmp (Jan 30, 2011)

You can wrap all the power outlets but water from pressure washing might still get in. Turn the power off at the main so you won't have to worry about, you can still wrap the stuff.Not really a need to fill holes with epoxy when a mortar patch will work. If they aren't that big caulking will work fine.Add at least 25% more material for the corrugated metal and consider the bar joist's as a solid piece of material x 2 , for each side. It is easier to consider them solid rather than try to figure exactly how much paint you might need. Good place to learn. That being said I hate painting exposed structural. Cover the lift real well or you will be charged extra for cleaning. Make sure you tell the rental company it is for painting so they know in advance. They might have a lift they rent only to painters and dry wallers.


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## BoondockPaints (Nov 14, 2018)

The exposed structural is my biggest concern. I feel like that's going to take a year and a day. Enough angles and surfaces to drive you crazy. Given that it's "structural", do I need to use a rust inhibitive primer, or am I clear considering it's already been painted?


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## kmp (Jan 30, 2011)

What is the building going to be used for? Is it just a shop and who cares as it is only to freshen it up or is it to be used for something else.If there is a rust concern an oil base dryfall might work. A darker color might hide rust bleed through better but no guarantee. Offer no warranty.Structural on bar joists in a dry environment does not mean it is going to fall down or be a major issue. more cosmetic. It will take awhile if you have never done it before but remember it is just a box, take the box apart and start with one piece at a time.Your small pumps will take a little longer. Walk into a Home Depot and look at 100,000 s.f. of exposed painted lid and say ,gee my project isn't so big after all.


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## BoondockPaints (Nov 14, 2018)

It's going to be used as a shop for a small dealership so it's purely cosmetic. I didn't see any signs of rust from the ground, just a lot of dust. It was already a auto shop so there may be some exhaust residue up there. Should I use any chemicals when power washing, or does the oil-based dryfall have good adhesion? He want's the ceiling bright white so I can't go for a darker color. I spoke to a SW rep and there's no oil-based dryfall in town and he suggested cleaning the ceiling mechanically may be necessary if there's exhaust residue.


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## kmp (Jan 30, 2011)

Water base dry fall sticks to just about anything but you could have issues with stain bleed through from the exhaust. It might clean up really well with washing and not be a problem. You might try a hot water pressure wash, like a Hotsy set up.


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## BoondockPaints (Nov 14, 2018)

Well, with the holidays and other delays, I am just now done prepping this job. I powerwashed with a de-greaser from SW and everything looked good. I went back a week later and all the conduit/galvanized was peeling really bad. I scraped everything that was loose and blew it down and I'm getting paint this weekend. 

Initially I was going to use white dryfall on the ceilings but my SW rep is really pushing the mulit-surface acrylic (MSA). The thought being that the MSA will cover the very minimal surface rust, galvanized conduit/small amount of ducting and can be used on the walls as well. The walls are painted block with minimal staining. 

I'm wondering if, at a ~$20/gal price difference, the MSA is actually worth it in performance. Would it make more sense to spot prime with something else and go with the dryfall? My budget has room for the MSA but I've never used it.

Any input is appreciated as always.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

Thats pretty pricey for a 7000 square foot lid... I would use the dryfall and fix the bad spots later. Do the math.

P.S. Dont listen to SW reps.

PPS. Shop around. PPG has better and cheaper commercial/industrial paints.


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## BoondockPaints (Nov 14, 2018)

Thanks Woodco!

If I go that route, what would you suggest for touch up on the bad spots and on the block wall? 

Also, there was almost 100% failure rate on the ducting. Do I need to etch it or will the dryfall suffice?

Thanks!


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## BoondockPaints (Nov 14, 2018)

I did just that and PPG was cheaper by about $3/gal. I guess I was under the impression that all dryfall was similar and that SW would try and price match.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

BoondockPaints said:


> SW would try and price match.


Oh, thats rich.... lol.

As for your other question.. If it were me, I would just dryfall the whole thing. If anything starts to show through, rattle can it with some bin or something, maybe mark the spot with a peice of blue tape, and touch up the spots with your spray gun.

I dont know about the ducting. Maybe pre-prime it with some waterborne DTM primer. It sticks like crazy.


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## BeerbowerPainting (Jul 31, 2018)

I think that DTM is the way to go on galvanized that is peeling. We did that this past summer and it worked well. As Woodco says it sticks like crazy.


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## BoondockPaints (Nov 14, 2018)

Is DTM the best way to go for steel/black iron pipe? I have two support posts in the middle of the warehouse and there is also an air compressor line on two walls of the shop. The support posts are bare black steel. The black iron pipe had several coats of paint and some thick black tar over that. It looks like it was a product they used in the shop and they wiped their hands or tools on the pipe. I used a grinder to remove the tar and any paint that would come off. No visible rust to speak of. 

Other posts suggest wiping with spirits and using DTM. These see a lot of traffic/hands, so I'm looking for whatever system will last.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

I would go DTM for anything metal, that isnt part of the ceiling. Or, at least the DTM primer underneath whatever else you use.. Its reasonably priced.


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## BoondockPaints (Nov 14, 2018)

Better late than never. Had a kid in the middle of this job... **** happens.


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## Masterwork (Sep 13, 2020)

Did you clean the ceiling yourself? I subbed my last one out to a pressure washing company. They had little rubber covers for all the electrical, etc. They did a great job cleaning, at least when you looked up from the floor. Up on the lift, you could tell they half-assed it. I had to clean it all again myself. Diesel shop, so extra greasy ****.


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## BoondockPaints (Nov 14, 2018)

Masterwork said:


> Did you clean the ceiling yourself? I subbed my last one out to a pressure washing company. They had little rubber covers for all the electrical, etc. They did a great job cleaning, at least when you looked up from the floor. Up on the lift, you could tell they half-assed it. I had to clean it all again myself. Diesel shop, so extra greasy ****.


I did all the pressure washing myself. Being a car repair shop I used some concentrated degreaser and then came back and washed it all down. I will say, power washing an empty warehouse in a sketchy part of town at 3am is not how I like to spend my time. Especially when there's at least a million dollars worth of luxury cars outside, making it a prime target for thieves. After the rinse a ton of paint turned to powder so I had to go through and scrap almost all of it and blow it down. I did hire a helper for that. Sprayed maybe 150 gallons of dryfall (should have kept the helper for that ) and that was that on the ceiling. Next commercial job I'm charging double and hiring a couple guys.


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## mike mineral spirits (Dec 5, 2020)

BoondockPaints said:


> I did all the pressure washing myself. Being a car repair shop I used some concentrated degreaser and then came back and washed it all down. I will say, power washing an empty warehouse in a sketchy part of town at 3am is not how I like to spend my time. Especially when there's at least a million dollars worth of luxury cars outside, making it a prime target for thieves. After the rinse a ton of paint turned to powder so I had to go through and scrap almost all of it and blow it down. I did hire a helper for that. Sprayed maybe 150 gallons of dryfall (should have kept the helper for that ) and that was that on the ceiling. Next commercial job I'm charging double and hiring a couple guys.


150 gallons of dryfall is right on the money. My new grocery/Sams club/Walmart painters have a spread rate of 50 sq feet per gallon with dryFall. 7000' divided by 50' = 140 gallons, make sure you use plastic on the floors as the dryfall will reactivate after a day or 2 and make a giant mess. Same spread rate for a commercial parking garages.


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## mike mineral spirits (Dec 5, 2020)

mike mineral spirits said:


> 150 gallons of dryfall is right on the money. My new grocery/Sams club/Walmart painters have a spread rate of 50 sq feet per gallon with dryFall. 7000' divided by 50' = 140 gallons, make sure you use plastic on the floors as the dryfall will reactivate after a day or 2 and make a giant mess. Same spread rate for a commercial parking garages.


I'm sure you used a 30" stray extension with a swivel head tip? Use sophomore or equivalent if there are rusted spots on the seams or ceilings.


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## mike mineral spirits (Dec 5, 2020)

mike mineral spirits said:


> I'm sure you used a 30" stray extension with a swivel head tip? Use sophomore or equivalent if there are rusted spots on the seams or ceilings.


Damm spell check. OsPho on Rust, Spray extension with adjustable swivel spray adapter.


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## BoondockPaints (Nov 14, 2018)

mike mineral spirits said:


> I'm sure you used a 30" stray extension with a swivel head tip? Use sophomore or equivalent if there are rusted spots on the seams or ceilings.


I had the extension but it didn't have the swivel head. It was a learning experience.


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## Ramus8T (Jan 14, 2020)

BoondockPaints said:


> I had the extension but it didn't have the swivel head. It was a learning experience.


Threads like these are so informative. I’m taking notes for situations that may arise in the future. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Masterwork (Sep 13, 2020)

No spray extension for open web joists. You can't get all the angles that way.

I average 80 feet per gallon, but yeah, a lot of guys will waste paint when they're not the ones paying for it.


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## BoondockPaints (Nov 14, 2018)

Masterwork said:


> No spray extension for open web joists. You can't get all the angles that way.
> 
> I average 80 feet per gallon, but yeah, a lot of guys will waste paint when they're not the ones paying for it.


I only used the extension for the flat part. I got all up in there for the "webbing". Again, it was a learning experience.


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## Masterwork (Sep 13, 2020)

BoondockPaints said:


> I only used the extension for the flat part. I got all up in there for the "webbing". Again, it was a learning experience.



Well, here's another tip. Don't use the extension at all. Scissor lift yourself up as high as you need to. Spray all the webbing first, in all directions, except what you would only see from the floor. Then spray the deck. Then drop the lift low enough to hit the bottom of any joists/beams. 

Tip size: don't go bigger than a 417. Wider tips will waste more paint and the time consuming part isn't even the deck, it's all the pipes and webbing, etc. 

That's it. You're done that section without fiddling with extensions or angling tips different ways. Etc... I can spray 2000-2500 square feet per day, getting about 80sqft per gallon pf paint.


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## mike mineral spirits (Dec 5, 2020)

Masterwork said:


> No spray extension for open web joists. You can't get all the angles that way.
> 
> I average 80 feet per gallon, but yeah, a lot of guys will waste paint when they're not the ones paying for it.


Good, corrugated ceiling with steel bar joists coming down 4 feet the entire structure, slightly different substrate compared to the one in the picture. I'm sure you realize the importance of a good tip? PC's do not pay (seldom pay} for sundries or equipment, so applicators really don't give a damn.


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## Masterwork (Sep 13, 2020)

You can see the difference between someone who knows what they're doing, and someone who doesn't. I was called in to "help" spray a ceiling for a GC I've done work for in the past. The yahoo spraying with all the misses was using almost twice as much paint as me, and look how much he still missed. The site super had to tell him to go back and fix it. I know for a fact he charges pennies and works for cash.... What a **** show that job was. I guess the GC doesn't care, since they can send him back three times for what it cost me to do it once. 

Come up with a system of movements and follow them each time you go up the lift. I still have the occasional miss, but it's few and far between.


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## mike mineral spirits (Dec 5, 2020)

Masterwork said:


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Masterwork said:


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I think most of the difference between 50 & 80 feet is in the building code. I live in hurricane alley. The framing and metal work is a lot heavier than what I see in the picture. I would attack it on the lift moving one direction and hitting or misting the support beams on one side. Then retrace the corrugated in the opposite direction with a light coat on the beams, A commercial Walmart is well over 200,000 square feet with tilt or precast on the exterior walls. Looks like you did a great job.


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## BoondockPaints (Nov 14, 2018)

I had to struggle with a broken lift joystick that made the entire job a nightmare by itself. But I was getting paid hourly and the customer owned the lift. I tried to rent one, but this was a friend and being my first commercial gig, I wasn't confident enough (or knowledgeable enough) to push back. He didn't save any money on that decision but now he has a lift for his shop.

I did eventually abandon the extension and used the method you described, but I was still slow as **** and surely wasted more product that someone more experienced would. I forget what tip I used but I did size it for the webbing since that's where all the overspray is happening. All in all, I don't think I had more than a few small misses, and I would be confident in doing it again.


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