# Cedar Lap siding issue



## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

Job I am at now has me thinking pretty good.

Cedar lap siding (8" wide 1/2" bevel cut with 6.25" reveal) that was originally stained. And at some point was then painted. They used latex directly over the stain. Now there is a problem with the paint staying on. You can grab one end of the lap siding run and pull a strip of paint off as far as the panel is wide. This area was hit by hail, and there are "pops" everywhere. 

I took all the paint off 3 panels rather quickly yesterday. I have not power washed the house because of the need for all the wood replacement that is now being done. So I haven't seen how easily p/w will take the paint from the siding yet.. or if at all. 

It isn't just the lap siding I am afraid to say. It is the trim also. I can grab a spot and rip a huge section off the trim. 

What gets me is that someone will do something like painting right over stain.. and they are not the ones that have to deal with it later. I liken that to someone who puts transmission "fix" or "smoke-be-gone" in a vehicle right before they sell it to make it seem better than it is. Just irks me.

I guess there are a number of ways to deal with this.. but I will still need to address the areas where the paint comes off.. and that SAME problem stain layer is staring me in the face. 

Just brainstorming.. what issues do you see with me using a stain stripper for these spots? Penetrating oil primer? Slow dry primer? Sand and prime? Use peel stop and peel bond afterward? 

Just thinking out loud, I have to report back to the H/O tonight with an angle of attack on this..


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

You described the problem well. What exactly do the HO's want? A fix or a band-aid? Maybe present a couple of options and what to expect from them.


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## jnigh (Feb 24, 2011)

how long ago was the siding stained? my suggestion would be to scrape where needed and then p/w with chems to strip the cedar of staining oils, let the house dry a couple days then use a self priming 100% acrylic. no oil based primer needed yay! good luck would love to see the before/after photos.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

Nate - run from this project. If you have to come here and ask how to do it - trust me this job will F' you over. These folks need a 100% strip - sounds like a 20-25k job from strip to paint. Perhaps steam washing could get the paint off fairly easily - you have access to a steam cleaner pressure washer?


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

When you say stain, you mean a semi-trans style stain or solid body stain?


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

There are easier ways to make money.


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

I have to agree with Dan. This is going to be a major project to do correctly. The stain, if a semi trans penetrating, has to come off. To get that off, the paint has to come off first. 80% of the paint will probably come off relatively easy but the time spent on the remaining 20% is going to be exponential in time outlay. This one is going to be hard to give a solid bid on. Someone is going to get hurt giving an all inclusive price.. either you or the homeowner. I personally wouldn't touch it unless the H.O. wants it done correctly and then it may be a "we have to see what happens once we get into it" type of job. 

Presenting options may just come down to a best and worst case scenario price.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

We have some condo exteriors that have the same problem, over semitrans, it is a bandaid approach on these units, peels in sheets. Thankfully it is trim only.


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## Tonyg (Dec 9, 2007)

I would also strongly caution against washing the house in the prep without a waiver. I had an asbestos shingle a few years ago that had similar paint failure. Thought I had a plan but after it was washed (low pressure) I had a mess. I knew before going into it that I should have thought twice but figured it was a good time in life for another lesson.

:cursing:


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

I think I would agree with all above, for all u know someone could have sprayed Thompsons water seal on it at one time.that could account for it coming off in your hand.


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

I have hit the h/o with $3500.00 in change orders so far. They are not afraid to do it right. I just have to get to that point. I am looking at a full day to basically strip the front of the house. Thank god that is the only work being done... and the only spot where the cedar lap siding is. For the portions of the cedar lap I am replacing.. it is fully primed front back and cuts.

So anyway I gave them the # for yesterdays change order.. today we were locked out and lost power.. rolled up early I am afraid  And it is one of the nicest days of the year. think it is only supposed to get to 85 today.. nice light breeze.. just a beautiful day.. we will be missing it because of power issue..

So yes, my thinking is to get rid of as much paint as I can.. turbo nozzle on my pressure washer.. then a light scrape and sand with an electric orbital. I plan on using the stripping compounds I would for a deck.. only for this house.

I think all will be well, and they know there is a MAJOR issue with the current paint and it's adhesion. 

In the future I will be offering soda blasting for these issues. If you guys are not doing it now.. it may be the thing you need to set up for in the future.


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## jnigh (Feb 24, 2011)

Really? all you guys would tuck tail and run? Wow! I thought we had a forum of pros... I dont know what kinds of markets you guys are working in, but i would like to have a project like this! Charge accordingly ,of course! but if the job is sold correctly, and the one who sells it, paints it, and he's a pro..... then a job like this gets you more biz. Congrats n8 on having some guts! I hope you prove all the naysayers wrong. Good Luck:thumbup:


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

jnigh said:


> Really? all you guys would tuck tail and run? Wow! I thought we had a forum of pros... I dont know what kinds of markets you guys are working in, but i would like to have a project like this! Charge accordingly ,of course! but if the job is sold correctly, and the one who sells it, paints it, and he's a pro..... then a job like this gets you more biz. Congrats n8 on having some guts! I hope you prove all the naysayers wrong. Good Luck:thumbup:


Well,he's is in the middle of the job, it's not like he can run you know. Just wondering how long u been in business?


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## Charisb (Jun 9, 2009)

plainpainter said:


> These folks need a 100% strip - sounds like a 20-25k job from strip to paint. Perhaps steam washing could get the paint off fairly easily - you have access to a steam cleaner pressure washer?


e truth. Give is a few more months, maybe another year, and ALL the paint will be peeling. You could have someone media blast with crushed glass (fine grit) and get a nice surface but bandaids aren't going to stick very long...and tell them, next time, don't put a water over an oil. Elasticity of the two are very different. One will pull at the other, almost always leading to peeling. Ugh.


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## jnigh (Feb 24, 2011)

John, you couldnt tell by my post? ha ha just ribbin ya. 10 years, 2 now on my own. i have seen many, many projects like this one and depending on how long ago the stain was applied and proper surface prep you could use an acyrlic. however, What gets me is why no one has suggested to just color match in solid body oil base and brush it. Im assuming its rough side out? or even smooth? it wouldnt matter...


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

jnigh said:


> John, you couldnt tell by my post? ha ha just ribbin ya. 10 years, 2 now on my own. i have seen many, many projects like this one and depending on how long ago the stain was applied and proper surface prep you could use an acyrlic. however, What gets me is why no one has suggested to just color match in solid body oil base and brush it. Im assuming its rough side out? or even smooth? it wouldnt matter...


 No problem. Yeah Nate will figure it out.


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