# Sticky  For new members and visitors: So you think you want to be a painting contractor?



## ProWallGuy

So you think you want to own a painting company…


So for whatever reason, you have decided you want to start a business. More specifically, you want to be a painting contractor. You’ve come to the right place for information pertaining to this choice of careers. But before we get too deep into it, let’s get this out of the way. Buy this book, and read it. Seriously, for your own good, do it. It’s a short, fast, and easy read, and it will set you straight right from the start. It will help you determine if you truly want to own a business, or if you are just a technician who is having an entrepreneurial seizure. I can tell you from experience, and think that most of the professionals on this site that have been in business for 10 years or more will agree that running a painting company isn’t near as easy as most people think it is. In fact it is damn hard. So you painted your buddy’s house, and think you can make a living at it? Read on.


Next, determine if you have enough experience in the industry to successfully run a painting business.* You will need to have more than just the basic knowledge of using a brush and roller. If you have only painted a couple rooms or such for friends or family, you don’t have enough experience to run a successful and profitable company. I would say a minimum of 5 years of actually _painting for living_ would be a decent start. If you’re only 22, and claim to have been painting for 10 years, guess what. Being 12 years old and helping your cousin/uncle/dad/whoever after school and on weekends doesn’t count as experience. Experience starts when you are painting to pay your bills, feed your family, keep your utilities on, etc. If you have less than 5 years experience of actually painting for a living, I highly recommend finding a job with another contractor and gaining some time on the wall and in the trenches. 



*If you want to run only the business end of the business, and plan on subcontracting out the labor, then I can’t help you here as that isn’t my experience. Maybe, if you ask really, really nicely, Brian might give you some good input on that business model. 



There are a couple books on the market that could also help a newbie paint contractor. These will give you only basic information (nothing beats hands-on experience):






 by William McElroy
Paint Contractor’s Manual by Dave Matis & Jobe H. Toole


The PDCA puts out several good books on the subject. They are fairly pricey, but well worth the money. All the PDCA books can be found at the PDCA Store.


The Business of Painting – a basic business management manual for paint contractors
Marketing for Paint Contractors
Effective Business Planning for Painting and Wallcovering Contractors


While knowing the hands-on technical know-how to be able to paint for money, just as important is the ability to be a businessman to run the business. To do this you need to know accounting, bookkeeping, estimating, and have managerial skills. No one is born with these traits, they must be learned somewhere, somehow. If you have no experience, in any of these, I highly recommend looking into some night classes at your local community college. Bookkeeping I & II, Accounting I & II, Taxes for Small Businesses, etc. Most of these classes are cheap, and can be done at night. If school ain’t for you, then start reading. Some basics to start off with:


On the numbers:


How Much Should I Charge? By Ellen Rohr




 By Ellen Rohr
Keeping the Books by Linda Pinson
Markup & Profit by Michael Stone


On estimating:


2008 National Painting Cost Estimator 
PDCA Estimating Guide Volume I – Professional Estimating Procedures
PDCA Estimating Guide Volume II – Rates and Tables
Defensive Estimating by William Asdal


Be aware, I see many new contractors come to these forums looking for pricing information. While it is possible that another contractor might be able to help you understand how to price something, it really isn’t feasible for them to tell you an actual price for that task or job. Why? Read this.


And estimating is all about production rates. You need to keep careful track of how long everything you do takes. I also often see contractors asking what a good choice of software is to help them estimate jobs. Here is a news flash for ya: If you don’t know your own production rates, there isn’t a piece of software in the world that can help you. Every piece of estimating software I have ever seen requires you to punch in your own production rates and material usage rates to be able to accurately spit out a final price. Learn to figure out production rates, materials, and pricing on your own before you look for a software shortcut.


Some more books that might help out in the long run:


Run Your Business So It Doesn’t Run You by Linda Leigh Francis
System Buster by Phillip Paul Beyer
The One-Minute Manager by Kenneth Blanchard


One last tip: Read every thread started by PressurePros.


That is about all I can stand to type right now. I welcome all the veteran contractors here to please add to this post with comments, advice, or whatever they can offer to help out the newbies.
Please keep it respectful, and on topic.


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## NEPS.US

What a great post. Thanks PWG.

This site is a great resource. Use it wisely.


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## slickshift

Excellent post
Good to have those link/sources posted all in one spot and stickied


I would add to the comment


ProWallGuy said:


> ...just as important is the ability to be a businessman to run the business. To do this you need to know accounting, bookkeeping, estimating, and have managerial skills. No one is born with these traits, they must be learned somewhere, somehow. If you have no experience, in any of these, I highly recommend looking into some night classes at your local community college....


"...or figure the expense of hiring out those specifics to someone who does have the skills"
Just as you don't necessarily _have_ to know painting _application_ to run a painting _business_, you don't _need_ to know accounting, bookkeeping, estimating or managing either.
_But somebody at your company is going to have to do it
_If you don't hire someone, or sub it out, it will be you
And even if you do hire someone for the numbers stuff, it will help if you take some courses anyway


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## aaron61

Very well put!!!!!!!


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## JNLP

ProWallGuy said:


> One last tip: Read every thread started by Ken Fenner.


"Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms."

Great post though.


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## ProWallGuy

JNLP said:


> "Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms."


Thanks, fixed.


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## Nathan

Great post! Now to make sure newbies see it!


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## timhag

Nathan said:


> Now to make sure newbies see it!


I'm sure 99.9 % of us will make sure the newbies get this link.:thumbsup:


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## ewingpainting.net

ProWallGuy said:


> So you think you want to own a painting company…
> 
> In fact it is damn hard. So you painted your buddy’s house, and think you can make a living at it? Read on.
> 
> I would say a minimum of 5 years of actually _painting for living_ would be a decent start. If you’re only 22, and claim to have been painting for 10 years, guess what. Being 12 years old and helping your cousin/uncle/dad/whoever after school and on weekends doesn’t count as experience. Experience starts when you are painting to pay your bills, feed your family, keep your utilities on, etc. If you have less than 5 years experience of actually painting for a living, I highly recommend finding a job with another contractor and gaining some time on the wall and in the trenches.


OK, this nearly brought me to tears because this is what painting was for me. SURVIVAL this is what brought me to painting, by fate some would say. But this is why I have passion about it because it took care of me and my family. _I have learned so much in the last 8 yrs. If I told you 10 yrs ago that I was starting my own painting business and you said to me what so many have told others here I hope I would have listen. not to mention any names. (sev)

Great post :clap:
_


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## vermontpainter

PWG

Great resource. Thanks for posting this, it should be very helpful to people just starting out. As many here have said, if there were resources like this available and so easily accessible when I started out, it would have trimmed some years off the learning curve and school of hardknocks. Hopefully new people will read all of the info you have posted.


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## George Z

PWG, what a brilliant idea and a great post.
This discussion board is full of ready to use info,
but what your post tells new people, is that it is a great resource.


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## MAK-Deco

I agree good post for a sticky and long over due!


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## GMack

Nathan said:


> Great post! Now to make sure newbies see it!


Exactly, as said in a previous post, newbies need to be directed and re-directed to this and other stickies. It will be better for everyone . . . Great post PWG.


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## Tonyg

I would retitle the post "for visitors or new members" instead of "newbies". I think it would get read more.

Also, I would repost your original post and close it for comment for a "read only" thread. Instead of opening it up for comment that will water down the original intent, I would paste selective posts of advice that you think is relevent and helpful to add to the topic.

This could be a great way to have a "best of" thread that would be a tremendous resource. You could also have different threads on diffrent topics. Maybe, if it was possible, instead of having these as "stickies", have them contained in their own section with one sticky posted across all the other areas referring visitors to the "Resource Center"


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## ProWallGuy

More business reading:

Customer Satisfaction is Worthless, Customer Loyalty is Priceless by Jeffrey Gitomer
How to win friends and influence people by Dale Carnegie
The Paper Trail: Systems and Forms for a well run remodeling company by William Asdal and Peter Rolfe Monks
Good to Great by Jim Collins
Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill
Rich Dad, Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki
The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey
Profitable Sales by Michael Stone 

A couple on sales:

How to sell anything to anybody by Joe Girard
How to close every sale by Joe Girard
How to sell yourself by Joe Girard
Mastering your way to the top by Joe Girard
How to master the art of selling by Tom Hopkins
The certifiable salesperson by Tom Hopkins
Sales closing for dummies by Tom Hopkins
Secrets of closing the sale by Zig Ziglar
Ziglar on Selling by Zig Ziglar
5 Steps to successful selling by Zig Ziglar
How to get what you want by Zig Ziglar
Sales questions that close the sale by Charles Brennan
Who stole my sale? 23 ways to close the deal by Todd Duncan
High Trust selling by Todd Duncan
Guide to handling sales objections by Barry Farber
Willie's Way by Phillip Van Hooser
The little red book of selling by Jeffery Gitomer
The best damn sales book ever by Warren Greshes
The One minute salesperson by Spencer Johnson


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## daArch

When the hell did you learn to write like that??? Been reading that Wm Zinsser book ? :whistling2: :whistling2: :whistling2:

See, cutting down on those butts gives you all sorts of time and energy :thumbup:

I know a dirty little rag that could use some good articles.









Seriously, good post, bro. Good research too.


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## Unicolor Painting

*Thanks for that input!*

Very good info!


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## DeanV

Why do some people insist on capitalizing the first letter of every word? It makes it much more difficult to read because the human mind reads by shape recognition, not looking at every single letter and when you mess up the capitalization, it messes up how the mind processes text and requires much slower reading. Post the question as a new topic and with proper capitalization rules, please.


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## C. VASUDEVAN

It's a tough job. No jokes. Want to really start, work with a contractor to learn the intricacies involved in it. Only through practicals and work on sites will teach you how to go about it. Once you are confident you can do it, then the world is yours to paint it red. All the best C. Vasudevan


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## ingrtrejo

*I am a newbie*

Great post, I am a newbie and I saw it, Thk


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## M.A.Cavenagh

Started this crazy life 27 years ago ...still at it ...read alot of the books you mentioned...all good but the best advice you gave , i think ...is stay on the wall and on the crew..
I still have to check my estimating carefully...it can be exhausting different areas require experience in time and supply estimates...love the talk forum...it has helped over and over again..thanks


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## YubaPaintPro

Simply great PWG! Thx for all the time spent! I will certainly get most of my painters to view this for sure. Well done.


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## inthefinish

When it comes to trying to get ahead, in most instances, it is necessary to pick a persons brain. This guy just pulls out a chunk of his and lays it out there for the taking. I think I'm gonna like this place!



*scopes the room for an empty seat beside a nerd*


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## TomBrooklyn

ProWallGuy said:


> Buy this book, and read it.


 Read the book a while ago. It helped me figure out a lot of what I've been doing wrong for the last 10 years.


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## [email protected]

*A newbie found it!!*

Thanks for the information. Now I know how I'm spending the last part of winter.
:thumbsup:


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## caseysbuilding

You are rite on. Everyone can run a business for a month, only a few can make a business profitable. You can lose money quicker than you make it. Very goon info. I will pick up one of those books.http://www.caseysbuilding.com


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## BrushMan

Could'nt have said it better myself.
Great Post.


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## nEighter

ZOMG.


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## TooledUp

vivisan said:


> Great resource. Thanks for new york asian escort posting this, it should be very helpful to people just starting out. As many here have said, if there were resources like this available and so easily accessible when I started out, it would have trimmed new york escort some years off the learning curve and school of hardknocks. Hopefully new people will read all of the info you have posted.


(Links removed in quote) 

What I want to know is, can they handle caulk? If so, what's the going rate?


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## nEighter

jeeze they are out in force tonight.. I think it may be treefiddy


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## JoeMudder

I started painting when I was 11 years old. My dad was a builder and gave me two rooms in a new house to paint and left me there. So what if I got the colors mixed up! hahah He never complained about the work I did. Just did a small job end of last week on a house someone bought but hasn't moved into yet. It seems there is more painting work right now than there is drywall work.


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## wallpaperremoval pro

*free for all here*



ingrtrejo said:


> Great post, I am a newbie and I saw it, Thk


Link deleted


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## annrob

not sure what i need to do here...i have lots of questions


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## TooledUp

annrob said:


> not sure what i need to do here...i have lots of questions


Just ask.

Remember one thing though. Alcohol is not the answer but it does make you forget the question.


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## RCP

annrob said:


> not sure what i need to do here...i have lots of questions


And you will find some answers here!
You might want to start by telling us a little about yourself and your business here. Click on the new topic button.
Then, spend a few hours, days, or however long you need and read, especially the threads marked "sticky".
You will probably find answers to a lot of your questions and more!
You will see that pricing questions are not a good idea!
Feel free to jump in then!


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## tsunamicontract

I love that Chris is like the PT courtesy patrol and new poster ambassador.


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## annrob

i am a newbie sorta.....

my husband has been painting 4-ever.... i lost my job and he now wants me to be his secretary, he is overwelmed with the business side. i am not sure how or where to begin with organizing paperwork, office, bids, invoices can anyone help


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## E & C

I was made for me........
I just start my own company....and this is really awsome post:thumbup:



ProWallGuy said:


> So you think you want to own a painting company…
> 
> 
> So for whatever reason, you have decided you want to start a business. More specifically, you want to be a painting contractor. You’ve come to the right place for information pertaining to this choice of careers. But before we get too deep into it, let’s get this out of the way. Buy this book, and read it. Seriously, for your own good, do it. It’s a short, fast, and easy read, and it will set you straight right from the start. It will help you determine if you truly want to own a business, or if you are just a technician who is having an entrepreneurial seizure. I can tell you from experience, and think that most of the professionals on this site that have been in business for 10 years or more will agree that running a painting company isn’t near as easy as most people think it is. In fact it is damn hard. So you painted your buddy’s house, and think you can make a living at it? Read on.
> 
> 
> Next, determine if you have enough experience in the industry to successfully run a painting business.* You will need to have more than just the basic knowledge of using a brush and roller. If you have only painted a couple rooms or such for friends or family, you don’t have enough experience to run a successful and profitable company. I would say a minimum of 5 years of actually _painting for living_ would be a decent start. If you’re only 22, and claim to have been painting for 10 years, guess what. Being 12 years old and helping your cousin/uncle/dad/whoever after school and on weekends doesn’t count as experience. Experience starts when you are painting to pay your bills, feed your family, keep your utilities on, etc. If you have less than 5 years experience of actually painting for a living, I highly recommend finding a job with another contractor and gaining some time on the wall and in the trenches.
> 
> 
> 
> *If you want to run only the business end of the business, and plan on subcontracting out the labor, then I can’t help you here as that isn’t my experience. Maybe, if you ask really, really nicely, Brian might give you some good input on that business model.
> 
> 
> 
> There are a couple books on the market that could also help a newbie paint contractor. These will give you only basic information (nothing beats hands-on experience):
> 
> 
> The Painter’s Handbook by William McElroy
> Paint Contractor’s Manual by Dave Matis & Jobe H. Toole
> 
> 
> The PDCA puts out several good books on the subject. They are fairly pricey, but well worth the money. All the PDCA books can be found at the PDCA store.
> 
> 
> The Business of Painting – a basic business management manual for paint contractors
> Marketing for Paint Contractors
> Effective Business Planning for Painting and Wallcovering Contractors
> 
> 
> While knowing the hands-on technical know-how to be able to paint for money, just as important is the ability to be a businessman to run the business. To do this you need to know accounting, bookkeeping, estimating, and have managerial skills. No one is born with these traits, they must be learned somewhere, somehow. If you have no experience, in any of these, I highly recommend looking into some night classes at your local community college. Bookkeeping I & II, Accounting I & II, Taxes for Small Businesses, etc. Most of these classes are cheap, and can be done at night. If school ain’t for you, then start reading. Some basics to start off with:
> 
> 
> On the numbers:
> 
> 
> How Much Should I Charge? By Ellen Rohr
> Where Did The Money Go? By Ellen Rohr
> Keeping the Books by Linda Pinson
> Markup & Profit by Michael Stone
> 
> 
> On estimating:
> 
> 
> 2008 National Painting Cost Estimator
> PDCA Estimating Guide Volume I – Professional Estimating Procedures
> PDCA Estimating Guide Volume II – Rates and Tables
> Defensive Estimating by William Asdal
> 
> 
> Be aware, I see many new contractors come to these forums looking for pricing information. While it is possible that another contractor might be able to help you understand how to price something, it really isn’t feasible for them to tell you an actual price for that task or job. Why? Read this.
> 
> 
> And estimating is all about production rates. You need to keep careful track of how long everything you do takes. I also often see contractors asking what a good choice of software is to help them estimate jobs. Here is a news flash for ya: If you don’t know your own production rates, there isn’t a piece of software in the world that can help you. Every piece of estimating software I have ever seen requires you to punch in your own production rates and material usage rates to be able to accurately spit out a final price. Learn to figure out production rates, materials, and pricing on your own before you look for a software shortcut.
> 
> 
> Some more books that might help out in the long run:
> 
> 
> Run Your Business So It Doesn’t Run You by Linda Leigh Francis
> System Buster by Phillip Paul Beyer
> The One-Minute Manager by Kenneth Blanchard
> 
> 
> One last tip: Read every thread started by PressurePros.
> 
> 
> That is about all I can stand to type right now. I welcome all the veteran contractors here to please add to this post with comments, advice, or whatever they can offer to help out the newbies.
> Please keep it respectful, and on topic.


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## colorfulpast

Great insight. I think you hit the nail squarely on the head! You have to surround yourself with good people. So many businesses fail because of poor management. I have been working with entrepreneurs for many years and it amazes me that some of these folks are incredibly good at the technical part of the business but haven't a clue where their money is going. 

Looks like I'm going to have to build a new addition to my library


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## castlebond007

I'm another 'newbie' I guess. I mean, I've been painting on and off for 15yrs for a living (also house-flipping and general remodeling/handyman srvs.) I got ripped of by three different bosses 2 years ago totaling over $3000 in unpaid labor so I decided to go out on my own. I got my own van and already had the tools, and things have been much much better. I've stayed pretty steady with just word of mouth marketing. Its just me too. At any rate, to my point; Ive been considering expanding and your post contains answers, or references that will give me what I need to move forward. Bottom line: PRICE LESS POST MAN, THANKS!!!


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## mistcoat

*Painting on and off for 15yrs*

This address is to no-one in particular.

*"I have been painting on and off for 15yrs."*

Right,,, does that mean a total of 15hrs, 15 days, 15 weeks per annum.... or what?

I myself have been painting over 26yrs with ONLY weekends off (well, I've worked quite a few weekends as it goes, and did one stint of 13 weeks straight on one job) but hey!

So, if you've been working on and off for 15yrs, what does that actually mean?
Is it a way to justify that you ARE a painter stating that huge time frame of 15yrs of "on and off" so that person hopes they don't get beasted and treated as a total noob.
Cannot understand that statement TBHWY.

I apologise now if this offends or doesn't come across too nice. It's late in the UK and I've not had an early day today (15hrs, which is long for me) 

As an added, I'm all for new folks and ppl who want to get into a trade, as I say just cannot get my head round that statement.


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## castlebond007

*15yrs experience*

No offence taken. Shortly after I dropped out of highschool at 17 my father put me to work with him and trained me in apartment and general maintenance. During that year I ended up work with a longtime residential painter named Mickey. I worked with Mickey for a couple of years then when to college "on and offf" for about 6years. In the "off" times I was painting because its just what I knew how to do and I could'nt make more money doing what I wanted to do: playing drums in a band. After I dropped out of college to join a band I needed money so I started working for Colortone Painters in North Ga. I worked with them for about 3yrs. The band broke up and I got into bartending for about 4yrs, during which time I took painting gigs on the side to make more money. The bartending thing did'nt work out so I moved to Al. where my dad hooked me up with a gig where he was working; mostly spraying apartment re-paints for a couple years. From that point till now, (I'm 35) I've worked with 4or 5 contractors in residential new-const. and re-paints, as well as "flipping houses" with my wife. I've been the owner/operator of Castlebond Painting and Remodeling for two solid years now. Its just me. So, I'm afraid that I can't say with any accuracy exactly how long I've been painting. I guess about 9years 8 months and two weeks or so; give or take a week.


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## mistcoat

castlebond007 said:


> No offence taken. Shortly after I dropped out of highschool at 17 my father put me to work with him and trained me in apartment and general maintenance. During that year I ended up work with a longtime residential painter named Mickey. I worked with Mickey for a couple of years then when to college "on and offf" for about 6years. In the "off" times I was painting because its just what I knew how to do and I could'nt make more money doing what I wanted to do: playing drums in a band. After I dropped out of college to join a band I needed money so I started working for Colortone Painters in North Ga. I worked with them for about 3yrs. The band broke up and I got into bartending for about 4yrs, during which time I took painting gigs on the side to make more money. The bartending thing did'nt work out so I moved to Al. where my dad hooked me up with a gig where he was working; mostly spraying apartment re-paints for a couple years. From that point till now, (I'm 35) I've worked with 4or 5 contractors in residential new-const. and re-paints, as well as "flipping houses" with my wife. I've been the owner/operator of Castlebond Painting and Remodeling for two solid years now. Its just me. So, I'm afraid that I can't say with any accuracy exactly how long I've been painting. I guess about 9years 8 months and two weeks or so; give or take a week.


My piece wasn't aimed directly at you my friend, just your figure was the last I saw and that is what I used. Pleased you're ok with that 

Your last sentence of 9yrs 8 months and two weeks, I need more specifics than that to prove yourself... 5hit no, I'm only jesting :yes:

Over in the UK, that is a common statement in my area, been (doing xyz for 5, 10, 15 yrs on and off) just to get "bigged up".

All I'll say at this point is you haven't sat on your a55 and claimed state benefits by the sound of it. So... :notworthy: and keep on keeping on!!!

Talk to slickshift on here, he's a drummer


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## Workaholic

castlebond007 said:


> I moved to Al. where my dad hooked me up with a gig where he was working; mostly spraying apartment re-paints for a couple years.


Where you at in AL, Mobile?


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## LOSTinDETAILS

Any of you guy's ever heard of a Alabama round steak?


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## Workaholic

LOSTinDETAILS said:


> Any of you guy's ever heard of a Alabama round steak?


I am a transplant or a Damn Yankee as they say here. No doubt it can't be good.


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## LOSTinDETAILS

Workaholic said:


> I am a transplant or a Damn Yankee as they say here. No doubt it can't be good.


It is only bologna.


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## castlebond007

Workaholic said:


> Where you at in AL, Mobile?


Was in Mobile yes. Thats were I met my wife and where we "flipped" our first house. Move to Atlanta after we sold it. That was about 5yrs ago now. Yeah, did'nt have a great experience there; I had to live in the house for about a year and I was in a really sh&%y part of town. Then, right after I finished the last coat of trim paint on the outside Katrina trashed it and set us back another 4 months or so....Why? You in Mobile?


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## castlebond007

Over in the UK, that is a common statement in my area, been (doing xyz for 5, 10, 15 yrs on and off) just to get "bigged up".

All I'll say at this point is you haven't sat on your a55 and claimed state benefits by the sound of it. So... :notworthy: and keep on keeping on!!!

Nah, no trying to "big up" or anything. And no I've NEVER claimed state benefits. I mean, I'm not saying I _could'nt _be in a situation where I had to, but I'd have to be paralized or something. .... cheers.


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## Workaholic

castlebond007 said:


> Why? You in Mobile?


No, I am in Huntsville.


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## castlebond007

*Huntsville*

Yeah when I was refering to that time I was working for my dad he was in Huntsville. I lived there for about two years. Not a bad town. I worked with him and delivered pizza for Papa Johns at night... may have delivered a pizza to you at some point


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## castlebond007

LOSTinDETAILS said:


> Any of you guy's ever heard of a Alabama round steak?


bologna! he!! yeah boy! its best when its fried!:thumbup:


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## PressurePros

Workaholic said:


> I am a transplant or a Damn Yankee as they say here. No doubt it can't be good.


Sean, you got the look down. I would never have known you weren't a good ole boy. No wonder your such a cool guy, you're a yankee.


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## LOSTinDETAILS

PressurePros said:


> Sean, you got the look down. I would never have known you weren't a good ole boy. No wonder your such a cool guy, you're a yankee.


Good ole boys don't wear Ducks hats. They wear camo and SEC football hats.


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## PressurePros

I'm thinking of opening something in Texas. I need a southern mentor. I'm a fast talking yankee with a Philly accent. I'm gonna be dead in the water.


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## LOSTinDETAILS

PressurePros said:


> I'm thinking of opening something in Texas. I need a southern mentor. I'm a fast talking yankee with a Philly accent. I'm gonna be dead in the water.


The old saying kill them with kindness or baffle them with bu11$hit will suit you just fine down there. If that don't work, talk slowly.


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## Workaholic

LOSTinDETAILS said:


> It is only bologna.


 Yeah i remeber the joke now. 


castlebond007 said:


> Yeah when I was refering to that time I was working for my dad he was in Huntsville. I lived there for about two years. Not a bad town. I worked with him and delivered pizza for Papa Johns at night... may have delivered a pizza to you at some point


I wish. I live out in the county, i have not had pizza delivered to my house in 10 years. 


PressurePros said:


> Sean, you got the look down. I would never have known you weren't a good ole boy. No wonder your such a cool guy, you're a yankee.


I am not really a yankee but around here anyone that is'nt from the south they call a yankee. A damn yankee is one that never left. 


LOSTinDETAILS said:


> Good ole boys don't wear Ducks hats. They wear camo and SEC football hats.


Don't I know it. I am not a true good ole boy but i can mix well enough as long as I leave the duck hat at home.


----------



## LOSTinDETAILS

Workaholic said:


> I am not a true good ole boy but i can mix well enough as long as I leave the duck hat at home.




I am full of jokes my friend and like ribbing you about your Ducks. I do believe if you get yourself a tractor hat and and work on your drawl you can be a good ole boy in my opinion.

Castle you are absolutely right about frying those round steaks up. I can eat that for breakfast, lunch and dinner.


----------



## Workaholic

LOSTinDETAILS said:


> I am full of jokes my friend and like ribbing you about your Ducks. I do believe if you get yourself a tractor hat and and work on your drawl you can be a good ole boy in my opinion.


I know. I am good with it you Dawg you.


----------



## pgriech2001

im starting to look into starting my own buisness i think im a good painter. im stuck on how to get started where to advertise at my aunt got me buisness cards. im just throwing some ideas any help would be great. Im tired of working for other people i just want to start doing little jobs till i get a repliable name any help???


----------



## BrushJockey

Start by reading all of this thread.


----------



## joselucas

Useful information, I will always like to read. I'll buy these books. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## brushmonkey

Great post! I wish I knew all that years ago.


----------



## friskypainter

Prowall,

Thank you for this post. What a wealth of insightful information. I will pick off of it for years.

frisky


----------



## richman

I just want to say thank you for the insight very good ad and excellent advice!!!!!!


----------



## 6126

Wow!!! Awesome post. Really good info. Thanks.


----------



## jeffsko

Thank you for good info!


----------



## David Sebastian

*Green Horns*



ProWallGuy said:


> So you think you want to own a painting company…
> 
> 
> So for whatever reason, you have decided you want to start a business. More specifically, you want to be a painting contractor. You’ve come to the right place for information pertaining to this choice of careers. But before we get too deep into it, let’s get this out of the way. Buy this book, and read it. Seriously, for your own good, do it. It’s a short, fast, and easy read, and it will set you straight right from the start. It will help you determine if you truly want to own a business, or if you are just a technician who is having an entrepreneurial seizure. I can tell you from experience, and think that most of the professionals on this site that have been in business for 10 years or more will agree that running a painting company isn’t near as easy as most people think it is. In fact it is damn hard. So you painted your buddy’s house, and think you can make a living at it? Read on.
> 
> 
> Next, determine if you have enough experience in the industry to successfully run a painting business.* You will need to have more than just the basic knowledge of using a brush and roller. If you have only painted a couple rooms or such for friends or family, you don’t have enough experience to run a successful and profitable company. I would say a minimum of 5 years of actually _painting for living_ would be a decent start. If you’re only 22, and claim to have been painting for 10 years, guess what. Being 12 years old and helping your cousin/uncle/dad/whoever after school and on weekends doesn’t count as experience. Experience starts when you are painting to pay your bills, feed your family, keep your utilities on, etc. If you have less than 5 years experience of actually painting for a living, I highly recommend finding a job with another contractor and gaining some time on the wall and in the trenches.
> 
> 
> 
> *If you want to run only the business end of the business, and plan on subcontracting out the labor, then I can’t help you here as that isn’t my experience. Maybe, if you ask really, really nicely, Brian might give you some good input on that business model.
> 
> 
> 
> There are a couple books on the market that could also help a newbie paint contractor. These will give you only basic information (nothing beats hands-on experience):
> 
> 
> The Painter’s Handbook by William McElroy
> Paint Contractor’s Manual by Dave Matis & Jobe H. Toole
> 
> 
> The PDCA puts out several good books on the subject. They are fairly pricey, but well worth the money. All the PDCA books can be found at the PDCA store.
> 
> 
> The Business of Painting – a basic business management manual for paint contractors
> Marketing for Paint Contractors
> Effective Business Planning for Painting and Wallcovering Contractors
> 
> 
> While knowing the hands-on technical know-how to be able to paint for money, just as important is the ability to be a businessman to run the business. To do this you need to know accounting, bookkeeping, estimating, and have managerial skills. No one is born with these traits, they must be learned somewhere, somehow. If you have no experience, in any of these, I highly recommend looking into some night classes at your local community college. Bookkeeping I & II, Accounting I & II, Taxes for Small Businesses, etc. Most of these classes are cheap, and can be done at night. If school ain’t for you, then start reading. Some basics to start off with:
> 
> 
> On the numbers:
> 
> 
> How Much Should I Charge? By Ellen Rohr
> Where Did The Money Go? By Ellen Rohr
> Keeping the Books by Linda Pinson
> Markup & Profit by Michael Stone
> 
> 
> On estimating:
> 
> 
> 2008 National Painting Cost Estimator
> PDCA Estimating Guide Volume I – Professional Estimating Procedures
> PDCA Estimating Guide Volume II – Rates and Tables
> Defensive Estimating by William Asdal
> 
> 
> Be aware, I see many new contractors come to these forums looking for pricing information. While it is possible that another contractor might be able to help you understand how to price something, it really isn’t feasible for them to tell you an actual price for that task or job. Why? Read this.
> 
> 
> And estimating is all about production rates. You need to keep careful track of how long everything you do takes. I also often see contractors asking what a good choice of software is to help them estimate jobs. Here is a news flash for ya: If you don’t know your own production rates, there isn’t a piece of software in the world that can help you. Every piece of estimating software I have ever seen requires you to punch in your own production rates and material usage rates to be able to accurately spit out a final price. Learn to figure out production rates, materials, and pricing on your own before you look for a software shortcut.
> 
> 
> Some more books that might help out in the long run:
> 
> 
> Run Your Business So It Doesn’t Run You by Linda Leigh Francis
> System Buster by Phillip Paul Beyer
> The One-Minute Manager by Kenneth Blanchard
> 
> 
> One last tip: Read every thread started by PressurePros.
> 
> 
> That is about all I can stand to type right now. I welcome all the veteran contractors here to please add to this post with comments, advice, or whatever they can offer to help out the newbies.
> Please keep it respectful, and on topic.


If I had to do it again,, I wouldn't,, Being a Painting contractor,, a legitimate painting contractor is very hard as specially when one gets into industrial coatings,, multi part epoxy's, mastic's, and other very dangerous to your health coatings. Iv painted just about everything, water towers, high rise buildings, single family homes, shopping centers and everything in between. I got into painting 28 years ago an worked for a painting contractor about 12 years before going out on my own. I am getting more an more into media blasting because the painting trade has been going down hill for some. Its just to stinking hard to make money at it these days an im fed up with the illegal immigrants low balling bids. I could not imagine starting a new painting business in these hard times,,buying new ladders,spray rigs,drop cloths, extension poles,high lifts, swing stages, work vans, building a customer base an a good reputation. Im getting tired thinking about it. God speed to anyone wanting to go for it. Good luck,yer going to need it:thumbup: LOL!


----------



## PRECISION MAESTRO

*?*

I just registered , can any one fill me in on how to start a new thread?


----------



## RCP

PRECISION MAESTRO said:


> I just registered , can any one fill me in on how to start a new thread?


Welcome to the forum, click here, then look for the "new topic" button on top left. That will open a new window. Introduce yourself and hit submit!


Some more tips here.


----------



## Painter_Paul

Thanks...


----------



## daviddwilson

(Removed by Mod)


----------



## JDpainterguy

*So you want to be a Painting Contractor?*

The most important thing is Pride.

Pride in your work. Take Pride in what you do, and you can conquer Life. DO a good job for good money in other words.

Love what you do, and you will be 99.9% ahead of everyone else. 

You can conquer the World! 

The rest will sort itself out, and that is where Faith comes in.

Believe in yourself 

(and don't do stupid estimates of course).


----------



## penman77

I would never trust a software to determine rates on a job considering that each job is a unique patient just like the people you are doing it for. You adjust accordingly based upon each individual project. That's what being a pro is about , knowing people and the job also.


----------



## CPFSam

Very kewl thread. Glad I found this place. Id like to add a couple things if its ok, I know Im new here but been in the biz quite awhile.
Reading those books are great, very familiar with those marketing gurus but you gotta get in the field and work your tail off for the REAL DEAL experience. New people to the business, IMHO, can learn a bunch by pounding out rental units and apartments to get the productivity pace down. Learn how much square footage you can kick out, completely and perfectly, in what amount of time. And you really gotta know your applications. To start out knocking out small stuff like single rooms is a great way to get going, then you up it to adding in the crown moulding, then your next job do the louvered bifolds, but wait. My Home Depot semi gloss peels whenever I bump it????
Learn the products, primers, applications and techniques. It can only be learned on the job.


----------



## ProWallGuy

Just reread this thread. If anyone finds any dead links in here, let me know so I can fix them, k?


----------



## gary1602

*Painting contractor for 15 yeras*

The thing i like about painting is very job requires something different.
I have been a painting contractor for over 15 years and worked in all different projects , I have been working on my own for close to 10 years, i decided to go towards the residential side of painting , its worked out great , i have built up a great clientele , when the building side slowed down i stayed busy


----------



## member 22

"If you’re only 22, and claim to have been painting for 10 years, guess what. Being 12 years old and helping your cousin/uncle/dad/whoever after school and on weekends doesn’t count as experience."

As i have seen a lot of painters who told me about their 20 year experience, and turned out to have no basic knowledge of painting I find this line very true for many beginners.


----------



## huntmaster

*painters test*



BrushJockey said:


> Start by reading all of this thread.


 I'm looking for a site that might help me come up with some painter test questions. I have a meeting in an hour and i'm being asked to bring some questions to put on a test that will be given to the painters to advance to Paint Foreman.


----------



## Final Element

ProWallGuy said:


> So you think you want to own a painting company…
> 
> 
> "So for whatever reason, you have decided you want to start a business. More specifically, you want to be a painting contractor. You’ve come to the right place for information pertaining to this choice of careers. But before we get too deep into it, let’s get this out of the way. Buy this book, and read it. Seriously, for your own good, do it. It’s a short, fast, and easy read, and it will set you straight right from the start. It will help you determine if you truly want to own a business, or if you are just a technician who is having an entrepreneurial seizure. I can tell you from experience, and think that most of the professionals on this site that have been in business for 10 years or more will agree that running a painting company isn’t near as easy as most people think it is. In fact it is damn hard....."








I'm [email protected]


----------



## pacificpainters.com

*Great information*

Thank you for the information. I am currently teaching painters in the pacific how to set up there own small business.

They don't have any money, tools or transport. How can they set up a business you may ask? 

Well many have started the first contract working for tools and equipment, I have taught them to allow for the cost of a carrier (hire truck with driver, very cheap) at the beginning and end of the project. Then just have somewhere safe on the job to leave the tools. Each day they then can catch the bus to work.

Some have grown there business from there like Tulia who formed Painting Perfection I set up her web site.

Here is a story of one of my girls Mere who started her own business. 

I am proud of what they can achieve, this is real poverty to healthy lifestyle stuff that chokes you up.


----------



## George Z

pacificpainters.com said:


> Thank you for the information. I am currently teaching painters in the pacific how to set up there own small business.
> 
> They don't have any money, tools or transport. How can they set up a business you may ask?
> 
> Well many have started the first contract working for tools and equipment, I have taught them to allow for the cost of a carrier (hire truck with driver, very cheap) at the beginning and end of the project. Then just have somewhere safe on the job to leave the tools. Each day they then can catch the bus to work.
> 
> Some have grown there business from there like Tulia who formed Painting Perfection I set up her web site.
> 
> Here is a story of one of my girls Mere who started her own business.
> 
> I am proud of what they can achieve, this is real poverty to healthy lifestyle stuff that chokes you up.


Keep up the good work, I will be watching your success.


----------



## SeattleHousePainting

I absolutely love Michael Gerbers work. A must read for ALL contractors! Teaches you why most businesses fail and what you need to do to succeed.

Aaron
www.elegantdesignsnw.com


----------



## carpetarmor.com

ProWallGuy,

Ever consider creating an information product? You'd do WELL.


----------



## Lee Decorating Corp.

*my first posting*

That was the geatest post I ever read. Everyone thinks they can buy $100 of sundries, grab a ladder and now you are a Professional paint contractor.


----------



## wanttopaint

This is a good and helpful thread for those wanting to be a contractor. I wonder though with no experience what books would be recommended for just learning all about painting; rather than the business part of it for those just looking to work for someone.


----------



## DeanV

The doing needs to be hands on. It is not really something that can be book taught.

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Paint Talk


----------



## wanttopaint

DeanV said:


> The doing needs to be hands on. It is not really something that can be book taught.
> 
> Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Paint Talk


Yes of course you need to go hands on with it. But I was thinking stuff like pointers, small things can be learned from reading. Though maybe some youtubes would be a better teaching tool.


----------



## Schmidt & Co.

Here ya go 

http://www.youtube.com/user/prowallguy#p/u/25/zQcveW6bCOY


----------



## adamdenshaw

Great post, which I have passed along to many friends. Also ordered the book. Thanks for the insight!


----------



## Karina1

Thanks for the post! Really helpful, insightful and beneficial.


----------



## rochelepainting

Great introduction! Here is our intro..

Established in 1975 our family business (www.rochelepainting.com.au) paints houses and commercial properties in QLD Australia.
In the last 5 years we have continuously improved based on customer feedback and listening to what our painters say.


----------



## kemicontracting

great post


----------



## dp ken

Thanks pwg
Learned how to paint from guys who felt guilty using anything less than Impervo oil enamel on wood work. your advice for me as a newbie 
starting a business on my own,is great.



dp ken


----------



## InnovationsPainting

Wow, you just filled up my amazon shopping cart. 

Really informative and well written post. That coming from an English major, for what it's worth. Special thanks for the time and effort!


----------



## Handymantim

Hello Everyone,

I am looking to start a painting company and was looking for maybe some good ideas to get the ball rolling.

I have been working as a handyman for the last 5 years. In this time painting has been one of my top jobs along with a huge list of other itmes. 90% of all of my work comes from my handyman Website and no other advertising. In recent months my call volume has drasticly decreased but when I go to the paint store for supplies I notice that they are extremely busy. So my idea is to back away from the handyman thing and try to go full scale painting.

The problem is, it does not seem to be working as I planned. I made a new website http://mooresvillepaint.com/. Printed out some business cards. I ran Google AdWords for 2 weeks,posted on Craigslist but still I am not getting any business. 

In my handyman service the internet has been really good over the years at keeping me busy as well as placing business cards in public places. I have tried signs around town as well as flyers on mailboxes. These I have not had much luck with. 

My question would be how would you guys recommend bringing in NEW business to an unknown company?


----------



## BrushJockey

I would start by reading this thread..


----------



## chrisn

Advertising painting 12 by 12 rooms for a $100 and throwing in the first gallon of paint free, probably is not helping any. IMO


----------



## Tibs

*Thank you from Tampa, FL!*

Thanks ProWallGuy! I have been painting for 11 years now and have been trying to do the research to see if starting my own business is the way to go. I am a painter, I am great with people but not really business savvy. The list of books you suggested I believe is a great start!


----------



## Pete Martin the Painter

Luckily, I have been painting for around five years. Just went out on my own. I have a mentor that I worked for, for many years helping me out with the ins and outs of running a business. So far everything is coming up roses. But, I know that it is going to get more difficult.
I found used copy of Painter's Handbook really cheap on-line. Wondering if anyone can recommend a more recent book. This book was published in 1987. I am not questioning the value of the book, just thinking that a lot has changed in the business 25 years since it was published.


----------



## PaintersDenver

*You need great people skills*

We believe we are the best Painters in Denver but doesn't everyone?
LOL


----------



## paintoke

Yes, Great post, Thanks


----------



## AZ Painting

Greet post!! Although I don't consider my self as a newbie, but I will take your suggestion upon these books. There is no limit to learning. 

Cheers,


----------



## KD PAINTING

*For new members and visitors: So you think you want to be a painting*

Good Info!


----------



## Jasonthep8nter

ewingpainting.net said:


> OK, this nearly brought me to tears because this is what painting was for me. SURVIVAL this is what brought me to painting, by fate some would say. But this is why I have passion about it because it took care of me and my family. _I have learned so much in the last 8 yrs. If I told you 10 yrs ago that I was starting my own painting business and you said to me what so many have told others here I hope I would have listen. not to mention any names. (sev)
> 
> Great post :clap:
> _


Couldn't agree with you more, what he says about experience starts when your paying your bills painting is as real as it gets.


----------



## marksimon112

Thank a lot man for a great post which has made my day!



ProWallGuy said:


> So you think you want to own a painting company…
> 
> 
> So for whatever reason, you have decided you want to start a business. More specifically, you want to be a painting contractor. You’ve come to the right place for information pertaining to this choice of careers. But before we get too deep into it, let’s get this out of the way. Buy this book, and read it. Seriously, for your own good, do it. It’s a short, fast, and easy read, and it will set you straight right from the start. It will help you determine if you truly want to own a business, or if you are just a technician who is having an entrepreneurial seizure. I can tell you from experience, and think that most of the professionals on this site that have been in business for 10 years or more will agree that running a painting company isn’t near as easy as most people think it is. In fact it is damn hard. So you painted your buddy’s house, and think you can make a living at it? Read on.
> 
> 
> Next, determine if you have enough experience in the industry to successfully run a painting business.* You will need to have more than just the basic knowledge of using a brush and roller. If you have only painted a couple rooms or such for friends or family, you don’t have enough experience to run a successful and profitable company. I would say a minimum of 5 years of actually _painting for living_ would be a decent start. If you’re only 22, and claim to have been painting for 10 years, guess what. Being 12 years old and helping your cousin/uncle/dad/whoever after school and on weekends doesn’t count as experience. Experience starts when you are painting to pay your bills, feed your family, keep your utilities on, etc. If you have less than 5 years experience of actually painting for a living, I highly recommend finding a job with another contractor and gaining some time on the wall and in the trenches.
> 
> 
> 
> *If you want to run only the business end of the business, and plan on subcontracting out the labor, then I can’t help you here as that isn’t my experience. Maybe, if you ask really, really nicely, Brian might give you some good input on that business model.
> 
> 
> 
> There are a couple books on the market that could also help a newbie paint contractor. These will give you only basic information (nothing beats hands-on experience):
> 
> 
> The Painter’s Handbook by William McElroy
> Paint Contractor’s Manual by Dave Matis & Jobe H. Toole
> 
> 
> The PDCA puts out several good books on the subject. They are fairly pricey, but well worth the money. All the PDCA books can be found at the PDCA Store.
> 
> 
> The Business of Painting – a basic business management manual for paint contractors
> Marketing for Paint Contractors
> Effective Business Planning for Painting and Wallcovering Contractors
> 
> 
> While knowing the hands-on technical know-how to be able to paint for money, just as important is the ability to be a businessman to run the business. To do this you need to know accounting, bookkeeping, estimating, and have managerial skills. No one is born with these traits, they must be learned somewhere, somehow. If you have no experience, in any of these, I highly recommend looking into some night classes at your local community college. Bookkeeping I & II, Accounting I & II, Taxes for Small Businesses, etc. Most of these classes are cheap, and can be done at night. If school ain’t for you, then start reading. Some basics to start off with:
> 
> 
> On the numbers:
> 
> 
> How Much Should I Charge? By Ellen Rohr
> Where Did The Money Go? By Ellen Rohr
> Keeping the Books by Linda Pinson
> Markup & Profit by Michael Stone
> 
> 
> On estimating:
> 
> 
> 2008 National Painting Cost Estimator
> PDCA Estimating Guide Volume I – Professional Estimating Procedures
> PDCA Estimating Guide Volume II – Rates and Tables
> Defensive Estimating by William Asdal
> 
> 
> Be aware, I see many new contractors come to these forums looking for pricing information. While it is possible that another contractor might be able to help you understand how to price something, it really isn’t feasible for them to tell you an actual price for that task or job. Why? Read this.
> 
> 
> And estimating is all about production rates. You need to keep careful track of how long everything you do takes. I also often see contractors asking what a good choice of software is to help them estimate jobs. Here is a news flash for ya: If you don’t know your own production rates, there isn’t a piece of software in the world that can help you. Every piece of estimating software I have ever seen requires you to punch in your own production rates and material usage rates to be able to accurately spit out a final price. Learn to figure out production rates, materials, and pricing on your own before you look for a software shortcut.
> 
> 
> Some more books that might help out in the long run:
> 
> 
> Run Your Business So It Doesn’t Run You by Linda Leigh Francis
> System Buster by Phillip Paul Beyer
> The One-Minute Manager by Kenneth Blanchard
> 
> 
> One last tip: Read every thread started by PressurePros.
> 
> 
> That is about all I can stand to type right now. I welcome all the veteran contractors here to please add to this post with comments, advice, or whatever they can offer to help out the newbies.
> Please keep it respectful, and on topic.


----------



## gmppainters

I have been a painting contractor for over 25 years and I wish that this information was out when I started great post 
<a href=http://www.gmppainters.com.au/> gmp painters </a>


----------



## quent10

I've just gone out on my own ,been working under father on and off for 20 or so yrs.REMODEL/HANDYMAN in central fla. ! Been useing graco x9 now looking for best advice on my first new in thebox /not used sprayer have opportunity to get all exterior jobs my pops does'nt want so my question is,I' m looking to purchase 390 es hi boy or 395 ultra hi boy! Homes we get range from1800sq/ft to3000 sq/ft so i'd say small to med. size residential could anyone give me thier exp. on which sprayer they prefer I'm leaning towards the 395 hi boy its [email protected] the 390hiboys at 899.00 got 100ft. of used hose anyway Im looking for best consistent spray output !And flow pattern that i can control in a consentrated fluid job
Basically i need a sprayer that im comfortable w/ so i dont get in over my HEAD! APPRECIATE ANY INPUT THANKS. QUENT10


----------



## quent10

*new member:great site need advice buying sprayer before mth.end*

I've just gone out on my own ,been working under father on and off for 20 or so yrs.REMODEL/HANDYMAN in central fla. ! Been useing graco x9 now looking for best advice on my first new in thebox /not used sprayer have opportunity to get all exterior jobs my pops does'nt want so my question is,I' m looking to purchase 390 es hi boy or 395 ultra hi boy! Homes we get range from1800sq/ft to3000 sq/ft so i'd say small to med. size residential could anyone give me thier exp. on which sprayer they prefer I'm leaning towards the 395 hi boy its [email protected] the 390hiboys at 899.00 got 100ft. of used hose anyway Im looking for best consistent spray output !And flow pattern that i can control in a consentrated fluid job
Basically i need a sprayer that im comfortable w/ so i dont get in over my HEAD! APPRECIATE ANY INPUT THANKS. QUENT10


----------



## quent10

quent10 said:


> i've just gone out on my own ,been working under father on and off for 20 or so yrs.remodel/handyman in central fla. ! Been useing graco x9 now looking for best advice on my first new in thebox /not used sprayer have opportunity to get all exterior jobs my pops does'nt want so my question is,i' m looking to purchase 390 es hi boy or 395 ultra hi boy! Homes we get range from1800sq/ft to3000 sq/ft so i'd say small to med. Size residential could anyone give me thier exp. On which sprayer they prefer i'm leaning towards the 395 hi boy its [email protected] the 390hiboys at 899.00 got 100ft. Of used hose anyway im looking for best consistent spray output !and flow pattern that i can control in a consentrated fluid job
> basically i need a sprayer that im comfortable w/ so i dont get in over my head! Appreciate any input thanks. Quent10


----------



## ReNt A PaInTeR

Get a Graco 490. I love mine


----------



## quent10

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> Get a Graco 490. I love mine


I' ll check price difference, how much better spray consistence ?compared to 390 or 395?your opinion!


----------



## RH

quent10 said:


> I' ll check price difference, how much better spray consistence ?compared to 390 or 395?your opinion!


390s aren't worth the money because of the significantly cheaper motor on them. 

A 490 will give the same results as a 395 but with less pressure, thereby reducing the strain on the motor and theoretically extending the life of your rig.


----------



## eurodecorating

Hi I'm new in this business, but all the painters who works for me have over 2o years of experience, So i can strongly say i can be a contractor i've done a few jobs around London,And created a my website myself with no cost except cost for hosting 
Please have a look at my website ,it's not the best but works for me Painters and decorators in London


----------



## Mellisa.Lopeze

*Re: So you think you want to be a painting contractor?*

Excellent post.

What a great post. Now to make sure newbies see it! Thanks ProWallGuy.

--------------------------------------------
house painting services | painting service


----------



## upandown

good post 
as I'm starting to be a painter and decorator London, worth to think about it.

Thanks


----------



## concord-painting

Its always nice to have useful information on discussion boards which is very helpful even to others.


----------



## ReNt A PaInTeR

Look for OPPU or/and the Richmond Challenge thread there is some info there as well.


----------



## RH

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> Look for OPPU or/and the Richmond Challenge thread there is some info there as well.


Trouble maker. :glare:


----------



## MHPaint

Lol im 21 but have 5 years experience in Commercial, Construction, and Remodel. Just started my own branch this year but thriving very well because connections of Father(The pioneer of all my family) and Uncles who are very successful painters in the DFW and Houston area. What I want to work on is increase experience in the Marketing area and work on creating benefit packages for my workers. I hope to pick at everyone's brains in this forum because I know yall have plenty to offer for a young buck like me. Thanks in advance!!


----------



## gottagettagroup

Nice Post..... Thanks for sharing


----------



## vancouver painters

Before you try becoming a paint contractor try being a painter for a few years so you will know what to expect from your employees. I worked as a painter for years before starting my own company. 

https://myspace.com/vancouver_painting

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Vancouver-BC-House-Painting/313066707754


----------



## concord-painting

I always nice to have information on discussion boards its very helpful for us to find relevant info with just a mouse click this should be encouraged.


----------



## Sixer

*Euereka!!! (Greek for "Right on!")*

YEARS ago, I recall having a really, really good painter's manual, one that thoroughly described paint priorities, procedures, paint chemistry, prep, safety, technique -- all the basics you would expect or hope for an interning painter to know. It was my practice to make it required, cover-to-cover reading for anyone working for me. (Honestly, it really doesn't take as long as you might imagine.) Understandably, this met with some resistance. Beginners were a bit overwhelmed, while veterans were sometimes, well -- indignant! However, it served as a decent screening, culling out poor attitudes and dilettantes. It also saved SO much time on the job, just knowing we were all on the same page. While I was (figuratively) kicking in the front door, as Starsky, I could feel confident that my "Hutch" could be counted on to be kicking in the back door... And wouldn't accidentally shoot me in the yahtkebay!


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## Masters Tile & Paint

I would be curious to know the names of those. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## eurodecorating

Hi I'm new in this business, but all the painters who works for me have over 2o years of experience, So i can strongly say i can be a contractor i've done a few jobs around London,And created a my website myself with no cost except cost for hosting 
Please have a look at my website ,it's not the best but works for me Painters and decorators in London
Bathroom Fitters London


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## eurodecorating

good post 
as I'm starting to be a painter and decorator London, and bathroom fitters London worth to think about it.

Thanks


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## dsum

Hey guys, I'm new to the forums and wanted to give you a run down on my future goals on running a painting business. I figured with all the professionals on here that's been through the grind and came out successful, you could give me some tips, suggestions or just tell me I'm stupid. Here's my backstory...I'm 41 yrs old and from the Midwest. I'm currently employed full time as a police officer and have been for 18 yrs! My span of control for supervising is roughly between 7-12 people. I love my job and I'm known as a really good boss. I make a pretty good income, salary wise plus the extra off-duty security work I do I can sometimes top six figures. 

However, this isn't forever and I figure while I'm still in good shape and healthy I should start preparing for the future. When I start pondering, I always revert to being a painter and running a small but successful business. I've been painting since I was 16 with my dad, then my uncle. My dad found extra income by getting hooked up with a nice residential apartment building management company and he started painting apartments. He would drag my butt with him after school. Over the years I got pretty good at it and he made a lot of extra cash. I then started painting with my uncle who is still in the trade today and is quite successful at it. I've helped him on several projects over the years with residential as well as commercial. 

Working with him I also learned another useful trade....tile work! My uncle now does a lot of remodels, tile work and paint. When talking to him he says the painting is good but also says when he gets a painting gig, next thing he knows he's doing a bathroom remodel or basement remodel. I ventured in the "flipping homes" business with just my wife. We completed 6 flips and that was enough for me since I couldn't find any help and working 3rd shift and remodeling houses got to be a little overboard. 

I feel like I've got the skills, savings and professionalism to start a painting business. Although I'm realistic and know that there's so much more I need to learn. My plan is to venture part-time by myself doing interior repaints for now. (remember, I have a full time job and not eligible to retire for another 7 years!). Build my customer base, work my contacts, get acclimated with the local supply stores and slowly learn as much as I can during this time. The goal would be to have all these things ready to go and on course so when I'm close to retirement, I can hire 2-4 quality people to help me succeed on this journey. Plus, extra income is always nice. . 

The area I'm in isn't really saturated with painters, so I believe there is plenty room to grow. 

Any helpful advise or constructive criticism would be helpful. 

Thanks guys!

- James


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## ProWallGuy

James, you may want to copy this post, and post it as a new thread in the Introductions section. More people will see it there.


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## dsum

Thanks, it's been reposted!


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## Zman828

If I would have read this before I started my business I might have rethought this business decision! lol, I still might! ha, ha


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## BerkPearce

You have shared very good post. Actually i want to make my carrier as painting contractor and this post is really helpful for me. You have shared very good links with great information.


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## Moto_Braaap

ProWallGuy said:


> Thanks, fixed.



Thanks for the info for us newbies, but that link looks like it's broken.


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## mikev

*square footage*

I am happy to read your post and it is .gratefully appreciated and very helpful. Would you happen to know what the going rated is per square foot in todays market.


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## jcstanton19

*Back in the "Good Ol' Days"*

For the younger generation of painter...

I started out in the business right out of high school with a cousin and another friend. The first house we painted was a friend's. We arrived the first day and it took us about 2 hours to set up the stereo system and speakers! For you older folks, this was the year the Alman Brother's "Little Peach" album came out. we painted until noon when the mother came out and asked us to "keep an eye on the kids" while she went to the market. Much to our surprise, she actually asked us if she could pick us up anything? She came back with 6 litre bottles of Pepsi and that got the three of us through the rest of the day.
Long story short...it took us the entire Summer to paint the house (which was a small cape)! In the Fall, we started painting a bigger house in the same town (again a friend of our crew). My buddy was inside the house playing the piano (he got paint on the mahogany seat) when the owner came home and he had to explain he was just "seeing if the piano was in tune" and "yes, he would get the paint off the seat"!
Flash back to last year when I joined a couple of guys who were a couple of years out of college. The owner of the company was talking about "finances" one day and I asked him what he was paying on his school loan? He said, "I'll be paying $1,600 a month for the next ten years"! I almost fell off my turned-over painting can seat! These guys are still putting in 14-16 hour days (Monday thru Sunday) and still trying to pay off huge school loans.
I don't know what the morale of the story is but I do know that I got an associates degree for $1,200 back in 1976! Hard to imagine these days huh?
If you love to paint and are willing to put in the hours and maintain a high level of quality, you can do well in this business. But heed the advice and counsel of the posters and members.
Best of luck!


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## meliambarnard

Thanks for the post. This is really a realistic one. I have been in the painting industry for years now and I am very lucky that I played both painter and manager role in my company premier painting. I know from my personal experience that how hard it is to cope up with everything at a time. When you take the responsibility for someone's home, you have to maintain that timely. Otherwise it will hurt your reputation badly. Each customer has specific requirements. So you need to instruct your team members to understand the clients need. To be very honest, not all people have this skill of leadership. In addition to that you need to build up a strong reputation in your service area. I must say it’s a kind of gamble when you start your own painting business. Anyways, good luck for the new comers


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## webspider

Great job, I am a New and I saw it, Thank you very much.


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## webspider

Looking for an experienced contractors painting in area 25 mile radius port saint Lucie from Florida & Ohio? Contact *Welovepainting *today.


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## webspider

I need Some painting


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## I paint paint

webspider said:


> I need Some painting


That room looks hideous.

You went with that promo pic in your spam posts?

And can't type a complete thought?

How much are you paying these robopost services to make you look this bad?


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## StrokerAce

Ordered the book on Amazon, many used copies.Thanks for the info, if I'm going to do it I'm going to try to do it right!


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## StrokerAce

nm...


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## tc painter cali

*liability ins.*

what company offers reasonable liability ins.thx


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## chrisn

an insurance company?




maybe?


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## spcpnt46

thats the best advice ive ever heard,and ive been around 30 years in the business


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## MichaelHenry

I just published this post a few days ago on "How to Start a Painting Business" and I would like to know if you guys feel it would be a good resource for fellows that are just starting out.

It would be good to have another solid blog post or video to link to around estimating. Something that goes beyond the typical "you have to know your production rates" spiel.


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## Old World Quality

*I disagree with not sharing pricing*

While I agree with not sharing pricing, there is a deeper issue here. When I was younger I worked with a Bohemian contractor who taught me to paint with pride and to provide a professional job. No cracks, no runs, no mess.

I went into business not knowing what other people charge for work, and tried to make it by charging what I thought was a fair hourly wage. I didn't make it on my first effort, went back to school, learned engineering, and fought my way back to a decent wage.

Needless to say, I have since found out that what I thought was a fair wage and what other people are getting away with was entirely different. At the time I thought $15 an hour was a good wage. Now I find people are charging $50 or $60 an hour, and were back then as well. 

Recently I was remodeling my home and hired landscapers and carpet layers. They told me that they made between $100k and $200k per year. And likely tax free!!!

Kind of destroys all of the years I spent in school and learning engineering to have landscapers make more than I make!!

What is unfair is to not inform people of the basic wages other painters are trying to earn. When people are struggling to price work at $15 or $20 an hour, and most people are earning 6 figures a year. Newbies deserve to know what level they can price their work at.


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## BPC

With the internet these days you can find out pretty much anything you want. What one peron charges vs another makes no difference charge what you need to survive and succedd and dont worry about others.


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## Peintures Esquisses

aaron61 said:


> Very well put!!!!!!!


Absolutely, Thanks!


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## Peintures Esquisses

Great post, Thank you!


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## Daniel Benyayer

What a great post. Thanks PWG.


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## iamheaven18

*Painting Business*

Thank you for these useful tips and ideas. I'm thinking of getting my home repainted so I was searching for some useful info online. Maybe I'll try Charleston Painting Company. They did my friend's house, they were really satisfied.


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## Imperial Painting

Very good post, been in the painting industry for over 20 years, and there's definitely a lot of good info that ProWallGuy put out! Thanks!


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## Gymschu

iamheaven18 said:


> Thank you for these useful tips and ideas. I'm thinking of getting my home repainted so I was searching for some useful info online. Maybe I'll try Charleston Painting Company. They did my friend's house, they were really satisfied.


I believe you asked this question over on the DIY website. I answered and directed you to some online reviews......might want to recheck your post over there for more info.


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## jaipurputaiwala

Really Great post. i have started a new painting business and it's not easy as we seen . the best chanllage is your competior that already place in market and they have years of experience and customer knowlege but we have try and give our best .

Thanks


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## Guttercleaning

Great to be part of this forum. I hope to gain alot.


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## AkronPainters

*Excited to be here*

Excellent post. I just recently went online to find new info about the painting industry. Gotta stay on the latest trends and products in the industry. Overall I'm just really excited to have found such an active and relevant forum. I hope this will help me a lot with my [link removed] painting company especially working on being a better [link removed]commercial painter.


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## Jerr

WOW! I wish I read this years ago. Live and learn! So much talent on here.


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## lubbocktxpainters

Really good information here. At the end of the day I still find myself learning new information with decades of experience. Heck, I didn't think I even needed a website for the longest time. If anyone is interested you can check it out here. Open to feedback.


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## jprefect

Old World Quality said:


> While I agree with not sharing pricing, there is a deeper issue here. When I was younger I worked with a Bohemian contractor who taught me to paint with pride and to provide a professional job. No cracks, no runs, no mess.
> 
> I went into business not knowing what other people charge for work, and tried to make it by charging what I thought was a fair hourly wage. I didn't make it on my first effort, went back to school, learned engineering, and fought my way back to a decent wage.
> 
> Needless to say, I have since found out that what I thought was a fair wage and what other people are getting away with was entirely different. At the time I thought $15 an hour was a good wage. Now I find people are charging $50 or $60 an hour, and were back then as well.
> 
> Recently I was remodeling my home and hired landscapers and carpet layers. They told me that they made between $100k and $200k per year. And likely tax free!!!
> 
> Kind of destroys all of the years I spent in school and learning engineering to have landscapers make more than I make!!
> 
> What is unfair is to not inform people of the basic wages other painters are trying to earn. When people are struggling to price work at $15 or $20 an hour, and most people are earning 6 figures a year. Newbies deserve to know what level they can price their work at.


I've plugged my way up from a $10/hr grunt in 2000 to a fully fledged contractor bidding "very serious jobs" :wheelchair:	

We should be telling students that there is good money to be made in the trades, and not treat them like they're a dustbin for loud personalities who don't play nice, and dunces who couldn't get into college. 

On the other hand, there is a big difference between what you earn hourly, and what you charge. I expect that at $15 you were just about covering your overhead. Lots of people charge upwards of $50 per man-hour, but they're probably taking home about half of that, maybe. (I don't mind telling you most of our customers get us for $65 ... I don't think anyone is going to use this little detail to come steal my customers, but who knows)

And contractors have a habit of bragging. The dollar amount of their jobs go u, every time they tell you about it. It's very likely you were getting gross revenue, if they are a small outfit. Maybe they wanted to impress an engineer. I've grossed a little under 100K before, but never come anywhere near to making that in profit! It's hard to do a million dollars gross. You'd have to have a good sized crew, and do nothing but estimates and administration ... and be good at it! Definitely would not be picking up a brush, and definitely would not be taking home a million bucks for your trouble! 

As a one man show, I expected to take 30-40% profit from a job. That is still about right for high-end jobs, and historic jobs, etc. (High-margin / low-volume). The commercial guys can make some very serious money. Their profit margins are more in the 10-15% range (don't quote me on that) but they do more jobs, simpler jobs, run bigger crews, and make up other efficiencies. (Low-Margin / High-Volume). They can make a killing, and charge less per hour. 

Those are basically the two business models I'm familiar with in the trades. And they don't mix well. You could get very well-meaning advise from a commercial painter, and it may not apply at all to you (or vice-versa)

anyway, that's my 2¢


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## BorntoPaint

Great article and got some laughs while reading it. Yes, let's show the newbies this article too as they will learn a lot.


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## JimWeber

Great post.
Looking good.
JimBee -


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## thinkpainting/nick

PDCA back in the day had an excellent seminar , books, and monthly meetings focused on overhead, direct, indirect, profit etc. When most guys and gals found out what they should be charging they almost fainted. The truth hurts and still today most have no clue. Don’t even get me started on estimating.


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## Raska

Great guideline for the newbies!


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## fermatt

Great info. Good thing i decided to open my business 10 years after i started painting.


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## PeterParker

Thanks for sharing this info.


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## Sling'n_Paint

Amazing resources. I can tell you my career in this profession, started actually as a punishment from my mother. She has been a painter herself for nearly 20 years. I would get suspended from the bus and would have to go to work with her before school was opened. Which my punishment was puttying holes on preps. From there I graduated to sanding and caulking. From there I picked up my first brush and the rest is history. To which I still have that very brush. Today my experience continues to grow, and if I could give any advice it would be the following:

1. Never give up - at times it gets down right ridiculous but never give up.

2. LEARN,LEARN,LEARN - 18 yrs in the field and I still take advice and tips from other fellow painters. You can never know to much but definitely not enough. 

3. Enjoy it - If you haven't the feel or desire to want to paint and enjoy the trade it definitely won't work out. It's at times tedious, demanding, overwhelming and aggravating. Patience and commitment will take you far.

Best of luck to you adventurous beginners on behalf of myself and I wish your journeys well.


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## curiouspainter

slickshift said:


> Excellent post
> Good to have those link/sources posted all in one spot and stickied
> 
> 
> I would add to the comment
> 
> "...or figure the expense of hiring out those specifics to someone who does have the skills"
> Just as you don't necessarily _have_ to know painting _application_ to run a painting _business_, you don't _need_ to know accounting, bookkeeping, estimating or managing either.
> _But somebody at your company is going to have to do it_
> If you don't hire someone, or sub it out, it will be you
> And even if you do hire someone for the numbers stuff, it will help if you take some courses anyway


Yep...found a good bookkeeper and my stress levels are way down. I am so, so glad to give them some of my money every month. And I learn a lot from her in the process.


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## Elena Fishchenko

Its really an appreciable nice content. Thanks for sharing.


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## jimmyd

ProWallGuy said:


> So you think you want to own a painting company…
> 
> 
> So for whatever reason, you have decided you want to start a business. More specifically, you want to be a painting contractor. You’ve come to the right place for information pertaining to this choice of careers. But before we get too deep into it, let’s get this out of the way. Buy this book, and read it. Seriously, for your own good, do it. It’s a short, fast, and easy read, and it will set you straight right from the start. It will help you determine if you truly want to own a business, or if you are just a technician who is having an entrepreneurial seizure. I can tell you from experience, and think that most of the professionals on this site that have been in business for 10 years or more will agree that running a painting company isn’t near as easy as most people think it is. In fact it is damn hard. So you painted your buddy’s house, and think you can make a living at it? Read on.
> 
> 
> Next, determine if you have enough experience in the industry to successfully run a painting business.* You will need to have more than just the basic knowledge of using a brush and roller. If you have only painted a couple rooms or such for friends or family, you don’t have enough experience to run a successful and profitable company. I would say a minimum of 5 years of actually _painting for living_ would be a decent start. If you’re only 22, and claim to have been painting for 10 years, guess what. Being 12 years old and helping your cousin/uncle/dad/whoever after school and on weekends doesn’t count as experience. Experience starts when you are painting to pay your bills, feed your family, keep your utilities on, etc. If you have less than 5 years experience of actually painting for a living, I highly recommend finding a job with another contractor and gaining some time on the wall and in the trenches.
> 
> 
> 
> *If you want to run only the business end of the business, and plan on subcontracting out the labor, then I can’t help you here as that isn’t my experience. Maybe, if you ask really, really nicely, Brian might give you some good input on that business model.
> 
> 
> 
> There are a couple books on the market that could also help a newbie paint contractor. These will give you only basic information (nothing beats hands-on experience):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> by William McElroy
> Paint Contractor’s Manual by Dave Matis & Jobe H. Toole
> 
> 
> The PDCA puts out several good books on the subject. They are fairly pricey, but well worth the money. All the PDCA books can be found at the PDCA Store.
> 
> 
> The Business of Painting – a basic business management manual for paint contractors
> Marketing for Paint Contractors
> Effective Business Planning for Painting and Wallcovering Contractors
> 
> 
> While knowing the hands-on technical know-how to be able to paint for money, just as important is the ability to be a businessman to run the business. To do this you need to know accounting, bookkeeping, estimating, and have managerial skills. No one is born with these traits, they must be learned somewhere, somehow. If you have no experience, in any of these, I highly recommend looking into some night classes at your local community college. Bookkeeping I & II, Accounting I & II, Taxes for Small Businesses, etc. Most of these classes are cheap, and can be done at night. If school ain’t for you, then start reading. Some basics to start off with:
> 
> 
> On the numbers:
> 
> 
> How Much Should I Charge? By Ellen Rohr
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By Ellen Rohr
> Keeping the Books by Linda Pinson
> Markup & Profit by Michael Stone
> 
> 
> On estimating:
> 
> 
> 2008 National Painting Cost Estimator
> PDCA Estimating Guide Volume I – Professional Estimating Procedures
> PDCA Estimating Guide Volume II – Rates and Tables
> Defensive Estimating by William Asdal
> 
> 
> Be aware, I see many new contractors come to these forums looking for pricing information. While it is possible that another contractor might be able to help you understand how to price something, it really isn’t feasible for them to tell you an actual price for that task or job. Why? Read this.
> 
> 
> And estimating is all about production rates. You need to keep careful track of how long everything you do takes. I also often see contractors asking what a good choice of software is to help them estimate jobs. Here is a news flash for ya: If you don’t know your own production rates, there isn’t a piece of software in the world that can help you. Every piece of estimating software I have ever seen requires you to punch in your own production rates and material usage rates to be able to accurately spit out a final price. Learn to figure out production rates, materials, and pricing on your own before you look for a software shortcut.
> 
> 
> Some more books that might help out in the long run:
> 
> 
> Run Your Business So It Doesn’t Run You by Linda Leigh Francis
> System Buster by Phillip Paul Beyer
> The One-Minute Manager by Kenneth Blanchard
> 
> 
> One last tip: Read every thread started by PressurePros.
> 
> 
> That is about all I can stand to type right now. I welcome all the veteran contractors here to please add to this post with comments, advice, or whatever they can offer to help out the newbies.
> Please keep it respectful, and on topic.


Thank you for posting this. I plan to reread this and click the links and buy a book. While my skill in painting is good, my knowledge is better than most painters I have met (because I read, and try things out before incorporating them) yet my entrepreneur skills is basically 0, an issue need to overcome. Totally screwed myself on an estimate, due to not seeing issues when I made my bid. lesson learned. Better with a small job.


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## fortcollins

Can we get refreshes on links to the videos?


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## finishesbykevyn

fortcollins said:


> Can we get refreshes on links to the videos?


good question..


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## jssharp02

Good advice. I noticed after getting into the government specter of painting is that a good painter comes from going through an 5 year apprenticeship with a legit seasoned company. I have seen painters that didn't have that and it shows in the output and final product.


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## Redux

jssharp02 said:


> Good advice. I noticed after getting into the government specter of painting is that a good painter comes from going through an 5 year apprenticeship with a legit seasoned company. I have seen painters that didn't have that and it shows in the output and final product.


In the private sector I’ve often had architects include wording in the prime contract general provision’s section requiring contractors and their employees employed on the given project to have a minimum of 5 years, or as many as 10 years, cumulative full-time experience, and being able to document it upon request.


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## Holland

jssharp02 said:


> Good advice. I noticed after getting into the government specter of painting is that a good painter comes from going through an 5 year apprenticeship with a legit seasoned company. I have seen painters that didn't have that and it shows in the output and final product.


Those are some impressive handlebars.


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## TKbrush

Just a comment on the Paint Talk letterhead at the top. To show a painter next to a folding ladder footed against a wall, implies a terrible safety hazard for visitors and new home owners surfing this site.


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## finishesbykevyn

TKbrush said:


> Just a comment on the Paint Talk letterhead at the top. To show a painter next to a folding ladder footed against a wall, implies a terrible safety hazard for visitors and new home owners surfing this site.


Funny, all this time I never noticed that. I'll bring up at the safety meeting.


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## TKbrush

finishesbykevyn said:


> Funny, all this time I never noticed that. I'll bring up at the safety meeting.


If a new home owner foots an old wooden ladder they found in the garage from previous owner, on a drop cloth, against a wall.....they are gonna go down like a ton of bricks.


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