# Level 5 Painting



## CozzaPainting (Mar 29, 2011)

Hey Paint Talk,

I am about to start my first level 5 job next week. It will be 4 decent sized bathrooms in a remodel. I have read around on the subject and there are many conflicting answers. The basic plans I have in place are below...

#1
Spray and backroll PVA primer to seal with Purdy 3/8" Microfiber roller. 
Have drywaller come back to see if any additional touch ups need to be done
Spot prime touch ups
Spray and backroll 2 coats of SW Pro Classic Satin Enamel with 3/8" Purdy Micro
(Trim and doors will all be same color as walls, and I wanted a seamless appearance as well as superior leveling, so Pro Classic for walls.

#2
Spray backroll PVA
Drywaller touch ups
Spot prime touch ups
Spray and backroll tinted Enamel Undercoater 3/8" Purdy Microfiber roller
Spray and backroll 1 coat Pro Classic Satin

Any input or ideas from those with experience would be greatly appreciated. Especially as to which roller cover to use. 

Thanks!


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

use one of those lint free rollers.


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## CozzaPainting (Mar 29, 2011)

Purdy white dove is what I always use. Just heard the micros leave a smoother finish.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

I think ur Kimda over thinking it. Prime it and paint it just like you would if it was level 4 or less. 
Not for nothing but it must be a awful big bathroom to charge up a sprayer over. 
As far as the drywall Touchups. Use ur head. If you can get a coat on before all ur tile, toilets, vanity, so on so forth are installed and I mean completely finished then have the drywall guy come back for Touchup. Only when everyone else is done in that space do ur drywall Touchup and put ur finish on.


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## CozzaPainting (Mar 29, 2011)

Thanks for the replies. The thought behind the sprayer was trying not to use a brush at all, and the trim is going to be the same color as the walls, so spray all at once.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

I think you got a good plan. i would add the undercoater step or change primers all together. PVA kinda sucks, especially the SW variety. I've had it flash out on new board. 

You probably know this already but one important factor to getting an even sheen on level 5 stuff (or anything really) is to back roll in one direction. Finish with all down strokes (or up if you prefer) with the roller oriented the same way.

I would stick with the microfiber, they are about the only roller I know of that does not shed at all outside of a few special cases of defective ones.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

The smallest nap I use on walls is a half inch.
Shorter than that IMO makes more problems than it corrects. 
I get the paint on the wall and flatten it out with the roller a bit dryer.
Then I realize most of the work I do my sleeve I'll get time to know it and get it just rite.
I'll use the same sleeve for a month or more for the most part
House painting, certain things about it, what a hassle. By the time you get a sleeve broke in rite ur done with that paint.


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## CozzaPainting (Mar 29, 2011)

Any advice as to a primer other than PVA? And would you add primer and undercoater? I usually use 1/2" so maybe I'll stick with it.


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## Toolnut (Nov 23, 2012)

Pro Classic could be a little difficult. I have never used it for walls, but quite a bit for trim, it stiffens up so quick that if you don't have somebody following real close behind you bankrolling could be a biatch. And if you add too much extender you lose the leveling properties in the paint.


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

CozzaPainting said:


> Thanks for the replies. The thought behind the sprayer was trying not to use a brush at all, and the trim is going to be the same color as the walls, so spray all at once.


I would follow the cut in with a 4" mini to eliminate the brush mark.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Dust down the wall with a wet carpet sand, usg tuff hide and topcoat split for primer and dont backroll. Final coat tip it off for touch ups when the other trades beat it up. Wierdest situation where id go two instead of 3.


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## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

I have rolled proclassic oil on bathroom walls and it looked good. I would use 1/2 roller. I would also sand lightly between coats to knock the stipple down as well as any dust that landed on the walls.


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## PNW Painter (Sep 5, 2013)

Gwarel said:


> I would follow the cut in with a 4" mini to eliminate the brush mark.



A big issue with level 5 is having the stipple look uniform on the walls. I'll second Gwarel's recommendation of using a weenie roller to help eliminate brush marks.

We cut in the ceilings and follow that with a weenie roller to get stipple as close to the ceiling as possible. For the wall cut in's we use the weenie roller so we don't even need to use a brush.

You should also pole sand all the walls after they've been primed to remove any high spots in the stipple. 


Sent from my iPhone using PaintTalk.com


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

Imho. A level 5 finish applies to the taping/mudding contractor; and in my knowledge requires them to put on a skim coat on the whole wall. Not to you. Paint it just like you would paint any other wall. A coat of primer an two coats of finish. If your a professional, u should be putting the paint on uniformly anyway, without sweatin over details such as Purdy golden eagle vs. Purdy White dove. Most pros I know also knock the tits off with the sanding pole b4 their finish coat as well. Leave touchup for the punchlist. PM 200 at 12 bucks a gallon will look as nice as anything, if applied correctly. If applied to heavy or to light, it'll look just as sh!tty as the ProClassic would. Put the 30 dollar difference in your pocket, where it belongs.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Ive seen level 5 drywall destroyed by painters. Depends on 2hat your after. A true paint level 5 has next to no stipple. Thats what im more concerned with. Tuff hide gives you an added spray applied skim.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Paradigmzz said:


> Ive seen level 5 drywall destroyed by painters. Depends on 2hat your after. A true paint level 5 has next to no stipple. Thats what im more concerned with. Tuff hide gives you an added spray applied skim.


Agree! 1/2 cover will also not do the finish any justice. Last time I did a level 5 finish on skimmed walls I used Gardz as basecoat followed by two topcoats of paint with a 3/8 micro and light sanding between coats.Looked sprayed on and this had can lights raking down the walls highlighting them.


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## ShermanMoore (Mar 23, 2014)

For the finish I'd go either with the acrylic-alkyd versions of PM 200 or ProClassic as my first choices, and then eg-shel Pro-Industrial Acrylic as my second choice. All are much more durable/washable than straight latex ProClassic and have equal or better self-leveling.


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## GSP82 (Feb 20, 2014)

Advance satin from Ben Moore


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

Hello, I think having drywallers fix any wall blemishes after first prime is a great idea. But a level 5 paint job might require a level 5 drywall job, which drywallers need to prime, fix imperfections and spray wall leveler (mud) technically. So hopefully there won't be much.

After walls are sealed I would trust myself to spray walls and trim with no backrolling only because it would be fine finish like the trim. We don't backroll trim right? It would be like shooting large surface doors or panels right. This advice is without seeing job so I could be wrong but I spray very evenly when its called for.

.


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## CozzaPainting (Mar 29, 2011)

I truly appreciate all of the replies. I don't like to come off sounding like I don't know what I am doing, I am a professional. I have never done level 5 and want to make sure I knock this one out of the park. I always do my research before attempting something new. 

Paradigmzz I have no experience with Tuff Hide. I did read it is very thick. When cut with the Pro Classic, would it take a learning curve to spray?

Ridesarize what size of FF tip would you recommend 412? 2 of the bathrooms have large windows. I am good at spraying but I am questioning whether there would be noticable spray patterns/flashing at the right angle.

I will never use the PC Acrylic/Alkyd again. It has a cure time of a month at least. Would be afraid to try the Pro Mar 200 AA for this job. Advance takes too long as well.

Anybody ever use Pro Class Acrylic on walls before and have issues? Any better ideas to paint the entire room with one paint? Cashmere is what I wanted to use, but I have never used it for trim, and wanted a seamless appearance. 

I think I will be using a 3/8" Micro cover. Just seems right. And weenie rolling the cut. 

And still unsure on the primer. Want one that will level out nicely. If tuff hide is easily applied that could be the ticket, but not sure the 695 can handle it.


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## CozzaPainting (Mar 29, 2011)

Anybody use SW Wall and Wood primer over drywall/mud? I have used it several times on cabinets and it sands down to a powder. Could be a good candidate before the topcoat.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

CozzaPainting said:


> Ridesarize what size of FF tip would you recommend 412? 2 of the bathrooms have large windows. I am good at spraying but I am questioning whether there would be noticable spray patterns/flashing at the right angle.


If backrolling walls use the appropriate tip to keep ahead of backroller, but for trim work I like the 410, maybe 411. Complicates it a bit to spray walls and backroll and do trim too (without touching with roller) but we painters like challenges.
Would you pause spraying when you get to trim, until backroller finishes, then spray trim while wall is wet?
Or spray trim immediately with walls while backroller catches up? 
Just something I would be trying to figure out before I pull trigger...


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## GSP82 (Feb 20, 2014)

The only two primers that I know that will lay out the nicest would be stix or the Ben Moore super spec enamel undercoater primer sealer


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## paintball head (Mar 3, 2012)

I'm not sure what you mean by cutting with ProClassic but no. Conventional paint is around 3 to 4 mil thick, Tuffhide needs to be sprayed on at between 15 and 20 mils thick. Your pump needs to have a rating of a gal. per minute at 3000 psi and have the power to shoot a gal. per minute with a 31 orifice tip at 2000 psi. Tuffhide is easy to spray but if this is your 1st time I wouldn't try it for the first time in this bthrm, need to have a practice area first. I spray it closer to 15 mil because in my experience when you put it on closer to 20 mil it will give an orange peel look.


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## CozzaPainting (Mar 29, 2011)

ride...I was planning on spraying a wall at a time, trim and all, and backrolling. Then moving to another wall.

GSP that enamel undercoater looks really similar to one I use regularly Columbia Premium Pro EUC. 

Sounds like Tuff Hide is not a good idea for me at this moment. 

Really appreciate all the help fellas. Job starts Wednesday and I am confident it will come out nice. My plan is ...

Premium Pro Enamel Undercoater with 3/8" Microfiber
2 coats Pro Classic Satin Acrylic with 3/8" Micro
Sanding between each coat.

I'm sure it will come out tits. 

4 bathrooms, and I just found out it is 4 different colors though. Not sure spraying will be the right move. Probably just going to spray the trim.


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