# Elastomeric Paint



## Nathan

After the 4 hurricanes hit our area in Florida and half the houses leaked through the walls everyone started to want elastomeric paint jobs. I hated the stuff because it was so thick and if you didn't put it on right it would peel off. The reason the houses leaked in the first place was because the builders used such cheap paint and half the time it was cut with water. They also didn't tie the block into the foundation right but it was to late to fix that problem.

I always steered clients back to our normal paint job using Loxon Primer (not conditioner) and Super Paint and most homeowners used that system which worked great. I used the Loxon Primer because most of the homes in our area only had the builders paint job and a lot of those had never been primed to begin with so our primer helped seal the house.

Anyways, I was wondering how many of you do elastomeric paint jobs and what situations you use that coating on?


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## Brian

We use elastomerics 4 to 6 times a year. Usually on stucco that is showing hairline cracks. If the stucco is solid, I'll steer the customer to something like Pittsburghs's Manor Hall or Timeless (SuperPaint or Duration for you SW folk).

I've been using elastomerics for 12+ years. I usually spec 2 coats, just to get the film build.

I actually sold a 1 coat elastomeric job this week. We did the house 10 years ago with an elastomeric. It looks pretty good-- a little fading on the west side. They want to make a slight color change and freshen it up. 

Brian Phillips


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## 4ThGeneration

I do alot of elastomeric coatings where I am at. I sell it as a three step system.

1. Pressure wash using 11oz tsp, 11 oz borax, 1 1/2 gallons chlorine, 3 gallons of water to make up a five of cleaner. This removes algae, mold, mildew, dirt.

2.Scrape loose paint if any left.

3.Fill in any cracks in stucco with brush grade elastomeric patching.

4. 1 coat sprayed and backrolled Sw loxon acrylic primer

5. 2 coats with one being sprayed and backrolled, second being sprayed
Sw conflex xl highbuild.

This is one system I use. I use different when homeowners desires BenMoore ofcoarse.


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## perfecto

4ThGeneration said:


> I do alot of elastomeric coatings where I am at. I sell it as a three step system.
> 
> 1. Pressure wash using 11oz tsp, 11 oz borax, 1 1/2 gallons chlorine, 3 gallons of water to make up a five of cleaner. This removes algae, mold, mildew, dirt.
> 
> 2.Scrape loose paint if any left.
> 
> 3.Fill in any cracks in stucco with brush grade elastomeric patching.
> 
> 4. 1 coat sprayed and backrolled Sw loxon acrylic primer
> 
> 5. 2 coats with one being sprayed and backrolled, second being sprayed
> Sw conflex xl highbuild.
> 
> This is one system I use. I use different when homeowners desires BenMoore ofcoarse.


 

What is the difference between Sherlastic & Conflex? Description says Sherlastic is an elastomeric , but conflex doesnt mention anything about it.


Which should i use for repainting an E.I.F.S home (acrylic based product)


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## SgtBaldy

For a stucco house it is a no brainer. It is far superior to other coatings but most customers don't want to pay the extra cost.

Down this way there are tons of 'Lifetime Coating' companies who spray elastomeric coatings like sw sherlastic and just re-label it with their own label.


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## Nathan

SgtBaldy said:


> Down this way there are tons of 'Lifetime Coating' companies who spray elastomeric coatings like sw sherlastic and just re-label it with their own label.


And do you find that these companies back up their claims or do they just close up shop every couple of years and start over? 

We had a lot of those companies in the Orlando area as well but most were selling "ceramic paints". One company I knew just put a ceramic additive into SW Duration and gave it a lifetime warranty. Of course he never lived in one area for more than 2 years so I think he had an easy time making that claim. Gives the industry a black eye.
He also claimed energy savings as well from the "ceramic properties" .


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## SgtBaldy

Some are fly by nighters but some have been around awhile. 

I subbed for one big one that has been around for a while when I first started out until I decided that if I wanted a good reputation i should stop. They cover their bases by not giving written warranties and calling their paint " Lifetime Coating" and bottom of label says it is manufactured for them by *****. They also have the blessing of the paint manufacturer because they buy so much product.

The only painters they have employed are a couple of guys on a warranty crew who go out and fix stuff that their subs screw up. They are basically a telemarketing company who cold calls people and gives the high pressure sales pitch.

Needless to say they have tons of legal problems but they have plenty of money to fix it.

They get up to 4 times as much per square foot as anyone else gets because of their bs pitch and the customer only gets a 1 coat sprayed on (no backrolled) elastomeric paintjob. If the customer knew any better they could get a 1 mid coat, 2 top coat elastomeric job for a third of the price and done by someone who actually speaks english.


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## Wolverine

> We had a lot of those companies in the Orlando area as well but most were selling "ceramic paints". One company I knew just put a ceramic additive into SW Duration and gave it a lifetime warranty. Of course he never lived in one area for more than 2 years so I think he had an easy time making that claim. Gives the industry a black eye.
> He also claimed energy savings as well from the "ceramic properties"


Isn't it a shame Nathan... Adding hollow ceramic spheres to paint just doen't make the paint ceramic. 

Theoretically, ceramic microspheres can offer some insulation properties... HOWEVER, they must be compacted against each other in exactly the right ratio of particle sizes to make it happen. It also takes a thick film to get the spheres to orient. We've never seen a company do a good job backing up that kind of claim. 

There are alot of paint companies making claims that are going to give 'real' ceramic coatings a 'black eye'.


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## Nathan

Wolverine said:


> Theoretically, ceramic microspheres can offer some insulation properties... HOWEVER, they must be compacted against each other in exactly the right ratio of particle sizes to make it happen. It also takes a thick film to get the spheres to orient. We've never seen a company do a good job backing up that kind of claim.
> 
> There are alot of paint companies making claims that are going to give 'real' ceramic coatings a 'black eye'.


So, your saying that a "good ceramic paint" will actually help insulate a home? How much insulation are we talking about?


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## Tmrrptr

Aw shucks! I was waiting for the Dude to come back and answer that question about r value in paint...
r


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## Wolverine

> So, your saying that a "good ceramic paint" will actually help insulate a home? How much insulation are we talking about?


It's negligible...


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## nlpaint

I know elastomeric paints for over 20 years know as my father
sold paint from a french paint factory specialised in facade coating and
elastomeric paints since the 50's.

A great technical solution for plastered cracked outside(!) walls,
but not in every case. Because it is a thermoplast (is that english too?)
the surface of the paint pollutes faster.


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## TomHay

Nathan, no such thing as forever. We MFG an Aliphatic Polyurea, UV stable as anything out there. As a "system" it will go the distance for many years but will require maintainance, everything does.


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## Ethan

*Elastomeric and Brick*

Question: my parents are looking at a brick house and are hoping it only has to be painted every 10 or more years. Would a "typical" (Good prep, 2 coats Duration or equivalent type-job) or an elastomeric be the best solution for longevity on previously painted brick? Thanks!

Ethan

P.S. Never used an elastomeric before.


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## Tmrrptr

Ethan, I would have no reservation using elastomeric over suggested primer.

Never sprayed it before????

It takes a big pump and a big tip to apply properly. Do NOT thin product.
r


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## Ken S.

Ethan,
Elastomerics should be sprayed and backrolled to insure a good grab & "water tight integrity" seal to substrate, with a pinhole free finish. That could be an issue with a brick substrate.Elastomerics typically show dirt faster, due to their softer finish. Hence, a maintenance cleaning program should be in-place.
Possibly look at the acrylic "hi-builds" such as "Duration", "Permanizer", "Fortis", etc. They may fit the ticket.


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## cole191919

Elastomeric paints are known for their longevity and durabilty making it ideal for exterior masonry surfaces. And are - as far as I know - meant to be applied on masonry surfaces (mainly brick and stucco).

I have done a lot of elastomeric coatings for exteriors before, and as long as you educate the customer properly and extensively about the product, they will understand the capabilities of it. Myself I prefer to spray the elastomeric as well as backroll to ensure that the product seals properly. A lot of people think that elastomeric should not be sprayed but my supplier insists that its in his opinion the only way to do it properly and efficiently. As long as its done at a higher PSI (closer to the 2500 - 3000 PSI range) with a larger tip on your spray gun. 

Of course along with spraying comes the extensive preparation like pressure washing, taping off all windows with poly or masking paper (or something of the sort) and drop cloths everywhere. At least one helper is ideal to help move ladders and your airless sprayer to make things run smoothly, but it is possible as a lone gunman.


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## cole191919

Sorry to repost but I had to share this one with you guys, and I know you guys have got to hate painting this type of brick mortar if you ever have. But this was done by spraying elastomeric and I believe they call it Weeping Mortar or something to that effect. Turned out pretty nice though.


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## Joewho

Nathan said:


> After the 4 hurricanes hit our area in Florida and half the houses leaked through the walls everyone started to want elastomeric paint jobs. I hated the stuff because it was so thick and if you didn't put it on right it would peel off. The reason the houses leaked in the first place was because the builders used such cheap paint and half the time it was cut with water. They also didn't tie the block into the foundation right but it was to late to fix that problem.
> 
> I always steered clients back to our normal paint job using Loxon Primer (not conditioner) and Super Paint and most homeowners used that system which worked great. I used the Loxon Primer because most of the homes in our area only had the builders paint job and a lot of those had never been primed to begin with so our primer helped seal the house.
> 
> Anyways, I was wondering how many of you do elastomeric paint jobs and what situations you use that coating on?


I'm not sure of the breathability of elasomeric. So far, out here, I've seen heavy favor towards stains or elastomerics. I personally am going to use your system.

There are two type of stucco, breathable and not. The first is stucco applied over chicken wire. The second involves styrofoam and built in venting. Similar to drivit. I'm thinking this has an effect on whether or not I'd use elastomeric. I'd use it on the non-breathing type, but most are just the regular stucco.


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## Z paint

i like using the elastomeric for stucco and adding latex conditioner to it when i need to cut in stufff by hand and faster than just the super thick elastomeric

we must strive to become better ancestors


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## 4ThGeneration

*Elastomeric*

Here in Jacksonville there are tons of stucco homes. I have seen that not all elastomeric are the same. The difference is if it is breathable or not. There is a huge never paint again company here called vanguard liquid vinyl. They get their paint tinted at the BM store I goto. I used to know of a company that went to Duron here and wanted to buy their weathershield (which was a awesome paint) and put their label on it. No dice though lol. Duron had some good paint. Siding in a can was really the bomb.


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## mjay

cole191919 said:


> Sorry to repost but I had to share this one with you guys, and I know you guys have got to hate painting this type of brick mortar if you ever have. But this was done by spraying elastomeric and I believe they call it Weeping Mortar or something to that effect. Turned out pretty nice though.


Can't send a private message, check
http://www.painttalk.com/showthread.php?t=354&page=2


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## contractormarketing

*Try this site*



Tmrrptr said:


> Aw shucks! I was waiting for the Dude to come back and answer that question about r value in paint...
> r



http://www.hytechsales.com/heat_transfer.html

Great explanation of R values and Conduction, Convection and Radiation.


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## Mister

what kind of sprayer would you guys recommend if you are spraying elastomeric often?


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## paintpimp

Speeflo 6900 XLT:thumbsup:


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## grizwold

*Siding*

So far, I'm hearing a lot about elastomeric being useful for stucco. But what about wood siding. I have a job in San Diego where the bulk of the house is west-facing and might benefit from the durability of elastomeric. Thoughts?


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## ewingpainting.net

cole191919 said:


> But this was done by spraying elastomeric and I believe they call it Weeping Mortar or something to that effect. Turned out pretty nice though.


This is a scary pic 
I'm sure he will be getting a call when the rains come


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## tsunamicontract

grizwold said:


> So far, I'm hearing a lot about elastomeric being useful for stucco. But what about wood siding. I have a job in San Diego where the bulk of the house is west-facing and might benefit from the durability of elastomeric. Thoughts?


Elastomeric (I believe) breaths only half as much as a standard latex paint (probably because its twice as thick). I would be worried that it would not breath enough with an elastomeric on it. If you installed something like wedge vents it might do quite nicely however.


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## ewingpainting.net

tsunamicontract said:


> Elastomeric (I believe) breaths only half as much as a standard latex paint (probably because its twice as thick). I would be worried that it would not breath enough with an elastomeric on it. If you installed something like wedge vents it might do quite nicely however.


Elastomeric is designed to do two things, one is to bridge cracks and the other is to hold back moisture. There are two types of elastomeric, one is the full blown the other is what you would call your hybrid elastomeric. Loxon would be considered your hybrid and sherlastic would be considered you full blown. The problem with the full blown is it is 0% breathable unlike the hybrid. But when applying any elastomeric you can not have any open pores if you do, like the pic above moisture will get behind the coating causing it to lift, bubble ect. I have seen bubbles the size of basketball. What is happening is it doing what it was designed to do and that to hold back moisture and bridge cracks which is its Elasticity. So if you have any openings in the coating moisture will get behind that coating trapping it. You need to think of it like a rubber band if it bresks it is useless. Elastomeric is useless if it has any openings and this is more important to the full blown elastomeric.


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## contractormarketing

ewingpainting.net said:


> Elastomeric is designed to do two things, one is to bridge cracks and the other is to hold back moisture. There are two types of elastomeric, one is the full blown the other is what you would call your hybrid elastomeric. Loxon would be considered your hybrid and sherlastic would be considered you full blown. The problem with the full blown is it is 0% breathable unlike the hybrid. But when applying any elastomeric you can not have any open pores if you do, like the pic above moisture will get behind the coating causing it to lift, bubble ect. I have seen bubbles the size of basketball. What is happening is it doing what it was designed to do and that to hold back moisture and bridge cracks which is its Elasticity. So if you have any openings in the coating moisture will get behind that coating trapping it. You need to think of it like a rubber band if it bresks it is useless. Elastomeric is useless if it has any openings and this is more important to the full blown elastomeric.



Read the technical data for the elastomeric or any other coating you are thinking of applying.

Any good product will have ASTM testing done. You are looking for the Vapor Permeability rating which is measured in perms. Usually this is either ASTM D1653 which simply certifies that a coating is "breathable" or ASTM E96 – Procedure B which will give you a specific Perm rating.

The term "Breathable" means that your coating has a vapor permeability rating of at least 10 perms. 

Many latex paints are much less than 10 perms and many elastomeric coatings are much more than 10 perms. It all depends on the individual coating, not the category it falls into.

So please obtain and read the products specifications and technical data from the manufacturer.


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## thebritishpainter

*elastomeric sgtbaldy*

i have a stucco/pebble dash wall that has lots of cracks in it.

is the stucco eventually going to fall off no matter what i do ....? or will a good elastomeric paint hold it on...?

i,m in calgary canada where it gets very cold in the winter,

also does anyone know of good paints and primers that u can get up here in the north.....?

i have,nt seen sw sherlastic here .

i have to agree that its hard to price a job here thats done right ....

every one here wants the cheapest price so get a cheap job

my estimates come in at 2-3 times the price ........... doing it right

u know these guys are missing somthing out as doing it right i could never even draw even for there prices

by the time it starts to fail these guys are long gone


\i have to agre alot with what sgbaldy says and also ask him what is the difference between a mid coat and a top coat is it applied different .....?


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## Will1952

*Elastomeric Successes!*



contractormarketing said:


> Read the technical data for the elastomeric or any other coating you are thinking of applying.
> 
> Any good product will have ASTM testing done. You are looking for the Vapor Permeability rating which is measured in perms. Usually this is either ASTM D1653 which simply certifies that a coating is "breathable" or ASTM E96 – Procedure B which will give you a specific Perm rating.
> 
> The term "Breathable" means that your coating has a vapor permeability rating of at least 10 perms.
> 
> Many latex paints are much less than 10 perms and many elastomeric coatings are much more than 10 perms. It all depends on the individual coating, not the category it falls into.
> 
> So please obtain and read the products specifications and technical data from the manufacturer.


Well said ContractorMarketing-:notworthy:
Here in the Pacific Northwest we are using on (some) lap-siding repaints, the formula of: 
Full prep- (scrape/sand/wash), prior to an application of alkyd primer, two coats of "Milastic" from Miller Paints, a final application of "Kril" from Miller Paints. Probably the _most_ important to us is the preparation and back-rolling of primer & the first coat of mastic. Following applications are not back-rolled due to 'nap' effects on smooth siding. "Cratered" effects from blisters are built-up to offer a 'smooth' result.
While this may be a cost prohibitive method for some clients, it offers them a well informed solution to their unique problem. Modifications of applications can be made to accomidate the clients limited budget. With the _knowledge_ of how to use the proper chemestry, alternatives for their budget can be found. When offering a 10-year warranty on a "full" application, many folks are hard pressed to say "no"!


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## IHATE_HOMEDEPOT

*Paint is not Hurricane Proof*

I don't think I am reaching here when I say that Elastomeric will not stop a hurricane force rain storm. Painters do not have to guarantee their work to that extent. If a house is built right it would include some type of a moisture barrier.


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## premierpainter

contractormarketing said:


> Read the technical data for the elastomeric or any other coating you are thinking of applying.
> 
> Any good product will have ASTM testing done. You are looking for the Vapor Permeability rating which is measured in perms. Usually this is either ASTM D1653 which simply certifies that a coating is "breathable" or ASTM E96 – Procedure B which will give you a specific Perm rating.
> 
> The term "Breathable" means that your coating has a vapor permeability rating of at least 10 perms.
> 
> Many latex paints are much less than 10 perms and many elastomeric coatings are much more than 10 perms. It all depends on the individual coating, not the category it falls into.
> 
> So please obtain and read the products specifications and technical data from the manufacturer.


The Coating that we use has the highest Perm rating in the industry- 50.4. It is the best that I have seen. Waterproof from the exterior and breathable from the Interior. 
Great stuff.


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## HORIZON

May have a conflex job coming out down the road and have been researching and making phone calls all I can on prep......but my big question for all you guys in the know.....Will my Titan 840 sprayer do the job? I was told it "should".......If so , whats a good size tip for best results? 530+


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## dreemr13

thebritishpainter said:


> i have a stucco/pebble dash wall that has lots of cracks in it.
> 
> is the stucco eventually going to fall off no matter what i do ....? or will a good elastomeric paint hold it on...?
> 
> i,m in calgary canada where it gets very cold in the winter,
> 
> also does anyone know of good paints and primers that u can get up here in the north.....?


Calgary Canada perked my ears up. I looked at your website portfolio and you have a lot of houses on there out in Canmore. I am a little concerned when you are asking what kind of good paints and primers to use up here when you already have million dollar+ projects on your website portfolio????? hmmmm



> i have,nt seen sw sherlastic here .


Sherlastic and Conflex is available at the Calgary Sherwin-Williams contractors location. Caroline or George can help you out at 403-243-1700. They are located on 1st off 42nd and McLeod. Mostly sold in 5'ers. They can mix trailer loads for you if needed. Other than Paint Direct, they are the biggest contractor supplier in the city. 



> i have to agree that its hard to price a job here thats done right ....
> 
> every one here wants the cheapest price so get a cheap job
> 
> my estimates come in at 2-3 times the price ........... doing it right
> 
> u know these guys are missing somthing out as doing it right i could never even draw even for there prices
> 
> by the time it starts to fail these guys are long gone
> 
> i have to agre alot with what sgbaldy says and also ask him what is the difference between a mid coat and a top coat is it applied different .....?


Serious?


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## drippyhome

*bubbles? what next?*



ewingpainting.net said:


> Elastomeric is designed to do two things, one is to bridge cracks and the other is to hold back moisture. There are two types of elastomeric, one is the full blown the other is what you would call your hybrid elastomeric. Loxon would be considered your hybrid and sherlastic would be considered you full blown. The problem with the full blown is it is 0% breathable unlike the hybrid. But when applying any elastomeric you can not have any open pores if you do, like the pic above moisture will get behind the coating causing it to lift, bubble ect. I have seen bubbles the size of basketball. What is happening is it doing what it was designed to do and that to hold back moisture and bridge cracks which is its Elasticity. So if you have any openings in the coating moisture will get behind that coating trapping it. You need to think of it like a rubber band if it bresks it is useless. Elastomeric is useless if it has any openings and this is more important to the full blown elastomeric.


The company I work with always recommends elastomeric for stucco, they do the powerwash, the prep, the primer, the application with backroll, etc. but with the rubber band analogy you use...what do you do to back up a warrantee if bubbles develop? It seems to me if it's a broken rubber band, it's a broken rubber band!


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## tony62

*Elastomeric*

In Vancouver, canada where we get a lot of rain and have constant moisture ingression and permetation problems, my company specifies only a coating Called Ceramic Insulcoat which hopefully will be on sale at Sherwin Williams in the future. There is no comaprison to this coating anywhere. It has an R equivalency rating of 24 due to the Ceramic Base (actual R Rating is more like 6-12) and a perm rating of 20-22 which is 2-3 times better than high performance acrylics which breathe around 7 perms and standard acrylics at 5 perms and elastomerics anywhere from 3-6 perms (don't let them fool you). This coating is used on concrete, stucco, wood etc. and can be applied directly on factory finished metal downpipes, gutters, flashing etc. with 90%-100% adhesion. So if you want the perfect coating then see if you can find it. We specified it at the Olympic Venues, City of Vancouver buildings, School boards use it exclusively.


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## SCpaintguy

Elastomerics are designed to be highly elastic (usually 200%-400%) and require a high build film. Problems usually occur on repaints when the weight of the elastomeric affects the bond of a previous coat. A chain is as strong as its weakest link. Most mfrs have 2 types of primers for elasto, 1 for new surface, 1 for repaint. The repaint sealer is usually a thinner material so as to lock down any peeling or loose edges and really seal the surface and prvious coatings. New work primer is closer to the viscosity of elasto finish. Many problems come from the fact that elasto expands and contracts so much more than traditional paint that the elsto causes older (or cheaper, or thinned) coatings to delaminate and then you have peeling.


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## SCpaintguy

Probably 1.25 gpm or higher. If you have a preferred product, check the product data for their recommended pump and tip size. Proper filter sizes (or removal) also helps. If you can afford the next size up, go with that. Using a pump a little larger than recommended is good because you never work it or strain the motor. Good advice with any coating.


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## paintr56

I have been using elastomeric on metal shed roofs for the last five years or so with very good results. While they have their limitations they do a good job of sealing the small leaks that tend to happen around fasteners after many years of use. I spray with a speedflow 5500 and either a 519 or 521 tip. Before starting we take some measurements so the guy on the ground keeping my sprayer fed knows where I should be when he needs to add more paint. Just a good way to double check that I keep consistent at 100 sq. ft./ gal. 

Jim


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## propainterJ

I have a T-111 house to do,the owner wants Elastomeric,is this wise,the previous paint job is in pretty good condition with the exception of a few spots of peel and wood check,I dont wanna drown the wood in Elasto meric and then have problems because of lack of breathability.


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## ewingpainting.net

Sherwin Williams Loxon, Glidden Decra Flex or Vista Paints Weather Master. All are hybrid elastomeric with excellent breathablity. Vista's was designed for T-111. Vista is only in NV and Ca. Loxon would be a good fit.


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## propainterJ

ewingpainting.net said:


> Sherwin Williams Loxon, Glidden Decra Flex or Vista Paints Weather Master. All are hybrid elastomeric with excellent breathablity. Vista's was designed for T-111. Vista is only in NV and Ca. Loxon would be a good fit.


 
thank you sir.


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## generalpaint

We have had roof issues forever at our store and recently thought we had them fixed. The walls were painted last year with Loxon XP- that is some good stuff. Everytime it rains there will be 3-4 area that will develop a big bubble like pocket and then it will melt itself back to the block one the sun comes in. Luckily it is a light color and no one notices.


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## blackwell

Nathan said:


> And do you find that these companies back up their claims or do they just close up shop every couple of years and start over?
> 
> We had a lot of those companies in the Orlando area as well but most were selling "ceramic paints". One company I knew just put a ceramic additive into SW Duration and gave it a lifetime warranty. Of course he never lived in one area for more than 2 years so I think he had an easy time making that claim. Gives the industry a black eye.
> He also claimed energy savings as well from the "ceramic properties" .


I don't think it matters what company manufactures the paint the warranty isn't worth the paper its printed on. I've talked to a half dozen painters that were hosed by SW and their Duration paint. SW now discounts the Duration to almost the cost of Superpaint now that the word is out and all the mystery about it is gone. sincerely james a. blackwell


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## blackwell

Ethan said:


> Question: my parents are looking at a brick house and are hoping it only has to be painted every 10 or more years. Would a "typical" (Good prep, 2 coats Duration or equivalent type-job) or an elastomeric be the best solution for longevity on previously painted brick? Thanks!
> 
> Ethan
> 
> P.S. Never used an elastomeric before.


Don't waste your time on any SW products. In this case a concrete overlay product such as Flex-Cement sprayed on as a splatter coat with a dry wall hopper gun will last a very long time if applied correctly. You need to have a worker roller on a special primer and spray the top coat on while the primer is still damp. Sincerely James A. Blackwell


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## charlottepainters

elastomeric to me is just too darn thick for most home exteriors. It get Hot and Humid here in NC and paint needs good breathability. Look at all the companies that used to offer that "lifetime" siding paint...DUH..lol it was Elastomeric and guess what?? 99% of them are gone now due to the problems they've caused and the lawsuits they've battled...lol.....not to mention most of them painted over old siding that was damp or had some rot which is just wrong.

kannapolis nc painters | concord nc painting contractor | charlotte nc painting company


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## propainterJ

We've used SW Duration on a lot of high end homes over the last few years.

We just re-painted a huge home in the country withit Oct 09,which I was just back at last week doing some customer service work,the only problem was the wood railing and posts were coming apart because of water getting behind the paint somehow,but its coming off a deck and getting nto the wood somehow,the paint is fine,the siding looks as new as it did the day I left.

We were paying like 34$ a gallon for that stuff as I recall,I can get 1128 from KM for less.


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## ADJinFlorida

Forum, as an insurance adjuster, I have to write estimates based on what the industry is considered acceptable. I have reservations about elastomeric paint used on the stucco exterior of a house. On several homes, the paint seals so well that the home cannot breathe and causes mold to form inside the walls and surfaces. Can someone please provide engineering standards/ certifications allowing this practice? I understand hairline cracks are minor on a block wall, yet when stair-stepping cracks occur, this is ground settlement. Shouldn't block repairs be made first or is this paint sufficient for covering those also? Technical data for or against elastomeric paints are what I require for proof to my company before I can write to properly repair the homes.
Any help is greatly appreciated.


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## Gerard's

*To Nathan:*

You have the right idea, I do the same, seal and super paint. As far as your Loxon elastomerics go. It is only used when the previously painted stucco surface is in bad shape and needs a full waterproof protection.


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## aaron61

ADJinFlorida said:


> Forum, as an insurance adjuster, I have to write estimates based on what the industry is considered acceptable. I have reservations about elastomeric paint used on the stucco exterior of a house. On several homes, the paint seals so well that the home cannot breathe and causes mold to form inside the walls and surfaces. Can someone please provide engineering standards/ certifications allowing this practice? I understand hairline cracks are minor on a block wall, yet when stair-stepping cracks occur, this is ground settlement. Shouldn't block repairs be made first or is this paint sufficient for covering those also? Technical data for or against elastomeric paints are what I require for proof to my company before I can write to properly repair the homes.
> Any help is greatly appreciated.


We use "brush grade" elasto in the cracks only.Seal & 2 coats SP


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## Contractor Jeff

Any house entirely coated should first have a proper means to vent moisture to begin with, elastomeric coated or not


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## MaterialsEngineer

*Problems with Elastomerics*



ADJinFlorida said:


> Forum, as an insurance adjuster, I have to write estimates based on what the industry is considered acceptable. I have reservations about elastomeric paint used on the stucco exterior of a house. On several homes, the paint seals so well that the home cannot breathe and causes mold to form inside the walls and surfaces. Can someone please provide engineering standards/ certifications allowing this practice? I understand hairline cracks are minor on a block wall, yet when stair-stepping cracks occur, this is ground settlement. Shouldn't block repairs be made first or is this paint sufficient for covering those also? Technical data for or against elastomeric paints are what I require for proof to my company before I can write to properly repair the homes.
> Any help is greatly appreciated.


Elastomeric paints have some excellent applications, but use of them may be too widespread. Application over concrete block is probably a good use, if done correctly. Brick that is not a weeping system - not a veneer - may be a good use if necessary. Care must be taken to seal all penetrations (windows, doors, vents, etc.) AFTER coating application unless the coating manufacturer instructs otherwise. Any small void at the surface will allow moisture inm and trapped moisture will blister and delaminate the paint and potentially allow moisture into the building. 

Applying elastomeric over stucco on lath (it is not "chicken wire" as some have stated on this thread) over wood framing is generally a bad idea. This type of stucco is by design a weeping system. If properly constructed, water that invariably penetates the coating (and it will even on elastomerics) flows to the back of the system and hits the building wrap or felt and drains downward to a weep screed at the foundation or the transition to other materials. This must weep to prevent trapped moisture. Coating with elastomerics will almost always block this weep to an extent that causes moisture retention in the wall. Eventually if the water cannot weep outward, it will find a way inward and cause damage, mold, odors, etc. 

Applying over true brick veneer is also generally not a good move, as this is also a weeping system that should be expected to allow water to pass through the brick. Painting with elastomeric to fix leaks that exist in weeping wall systems simply does not work well.

In most cases, if no other construction flaws exist, application of a good quality primer like Loxon (or similar) and a breathable high quality latex paint - like Loxon as well - will provide good protection without the problematic water retention, blistering, coating failure and higher propensity for soiling of the soft elastomeric surface.


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## beckya

Nathan said:


> After the 4 hurricanes hit our area in Florida and half the houses leaked through the walls everyone started to want elastomeric paint jobs. I hated the stuff because it was so thick and if you didn't put it on right it would peel off. The reason the houses leaked in the first place was because the builders used such cheap paint and half the time it was cut with water. They also didn't tie the block into the foundation right but it was to late to fix that problem.
> 
> I always steered clients back to our normal paint job using Loxon Primer (not conditioner) and Super Paint and most homeowners used that system which worked great. I used the Loxon Primer because most of the homes in our area only had the builders paint job and a lot of those had never been primed to begin with so our primer helped seal the house.
> 
> Anyways, I was wondering how many of you do elastomeric paint jobs and what situations you use that coating on?


Thanks for the info, I'll try that on our next remodel.


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## Webo

*Alligator skin elastomeric coating*

My house is 150 years old and made of redwood. I fell prey to the "never paint again" sales person :icon_rolleyes: and used elastomeric paint on my house. The product failed in the first month and was repaired x3 since. Now it looks like alligator skin. What do I do? Can I paint over it? Am I stuck with elastomeric coatings? How do you get this stuff off your house?


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## Webo

*Where do the vents go?*



Contractor Jeff said:


> Any house entirely coated should first have a proper means to vent moisture to begin with, elastomeric coated or not


Where do the vents go and what do they look like?
Thanks.


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## gogopntr

*emc coatings*

i have a graco 5900 hd and i use 3.8 line for the first 50, then 300 ft of 1/4 hose for the remainder. 6 ft pole and shoot emc with a 6-21 to 12-35 tip. the problem im having is the surge, starts off full power then drops off. ii use the 3/8 for volume. without thinning the paint its almost impossible to avoid the surge. 
thinking the length of line is causing this. anyone? i have been shooting emc's for 20 of the 32 years in business and its the best coating for stucco, block that i can find , sw conflex. 

would a shorter line help this?


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## gogopntr

heat gun and torch. redwood should be coated with aluminum paint before any coating goes over it. lol try that out. i have done that in long beach 15 years ago. stripped it with a torch. good luck.
you could try conflex sw and brush and r
oll


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## ewingpainting.net

are talking about frazze emc? if so that stuff is junk.


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## mudbone

ewingpainting.net said:


> are talking about frazze emc? if so that stuff is junk.


That would be strectching it!:whistling2:


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## Oden

gogopntr said:


> i have a graco 5900 hd and i use 3.8 line for the first 50, then 300 ft of 1/4 hose for the remainder. 6 ft pole and shoot emc with a 6-21 to 12-35 tip. the problem im having is the surge, starts off full power then drops off. ii use the 3/8 for volume. without thinning the paint its almost impossible to avoid the surge.
> thinking the length of line is causing this. anyone? i have been shooting emc's for 20 of the 32 years in business and its the best coating for stucco, block that i can find , sw conflex.
> 
> would a shorter line help this?


I never seen anyone run 350ft of line off of a pump and I've been around. I think that much line could cause some problems. The line, the pole, the monster tips. 
Your a madman! I mean that as a compliment. Your mad!


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## robladd

That's too much hose. Take off 200' and see how much of a change that will be.


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## norm210

been in it for over 30 years,i agree with last reply .take off 200,hire somebody to move sprayer if u dont have them now,


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## the paintman

Nathan said:


> After the 4 hurricanes hit our area in Florida and half the houses leaked through the walls everyone started to want elastomeric paint jobs. I hated the stuff because it was so thick and if you didn't put it on right it would peel off. The reason the houses leaked in the first place was because the builders used such cheap paint and half the time it was cut with water. They also didn't tie the block into the foundation right but it was to late to fix that problem.
> 
> I always steered clients back to our normal paint job using Loxon Primer (not conditioner) and Super Paint and most homeowners used that system which worked great. I used the Loxon Primer because most of the homes in our area only had the builders paint job and a lot of those had never been primed to begin with so our primer helped seal the house.
> 
> Anyways, I was wondering how many of you do elastomeric paint jobs and what situations you use that coating on?


The Skinny on Elastomeric Paint - It may be on its way to becoming extinct. 

The new hybrids are replacing them. And they don't use elastomeric in the name. On purpose. Because in Florida anyway Elastomeric has become a "dirty" word to some degree. Specifiers don't want to touch it anymore. For a lot of the reasons mentioned above. When it came out it was the next best thing since sliced bread. And was a commercial grade only paint. Then about say 10 or 15 years ago the problems began to mount and surface. Soils easy, fades easy, chalks easy. And then the big "BOOBS" as a lot of sales reps like to call them. If you drive A1A in Florida along the beachs an astute eye can see many 'Boobs" of the variety known only to paint up and down the walls of the hotels and condos after a rain. Mfgs and reps started the backpedal. A lot of builders and specifiers hung onto it for a while as a intermediary coat writing the finish coat as top grade acrylic for all the benefits and advantages it has over elastomeric. I don't know if they even do that now. 
Then The Florida masonry and stucco association(s) ( I cant remember the name of the specific one i talked to personally) then started a strong concerted lobby effort against the use of the products and unspecifying its use on any masonry surfaces. They have gotten a black eye also from the "lifetime" painters as well. And deservedly so. In the end it may fade away, because of all these things. I won't miss it. Nor will anyone else. The breathable hybrids are a way better product anyway. The best of both worlds.


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## DeanV

What products do you mean by breathable hybrid (examples)?

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Paint Talk


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## painter213

I would like to know about a breathable Hybird as well. What coating class are these in and who's making them?


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## the paintman

SWP loxon is a breathable hybrid elastomeric. Although like i siad most will not call it elastomeric coating.

Color Wheel calls thiers Flex Lox .

Other manufactures just ask for it and most should have it by now. 

Its been 8 years now since the 2004 hurricanes when these became in vogue. And building codes, Subdivisions and municipalites in Florida all jumped all over these products for water resistance for wind driven rain up too 100 mph.


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## DeanV

Loxon XP?


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## PatsPainting

Gabe - Have a question for ya bud. Looked at a job today where they had the back part of their house painted with that frazee elastomeric paint - It was just regular stucco. I have absolutely no experience using this product and very little using other elastomeric paints. They want to put it on the front part of their house which you can see below. Its kinda like a Spanish style texture. Would you first recommended putting elasto on it? and would you use the frazee stuff? there are no issues from what I can see on the back of the house. Looks just like regular paint though. No bubbles or anything. I'm just not sure if regular paint would be better then putting elasto on it.

Thanks

Pat


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## 6126

Oden said:


> I never seen anyone run 350ft of line off of a pump and I've been around.


Neither have I. I used to run 150' back when I was walling out track houses in Vegas and I've ran 200' on a few commercial jobs, but never 350 ft.


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## henrymilathy

Great job done by all of you..Now i have very well versed knowledge about electromeric paint..As it is very popular..Thankku all for being so informative....


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## Repaintpro

Does anyone have a link to spraying elastomeric. I use it all the time but have never sprayed it on walls. Closest would be roof membrane which we do all the time with a 6 21 tip.


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