# Using Fine Paints of Europe Paint



## JDpainterguy (Oct 19, 2010)

I painted the Exterior of a new front door for someone in High Gloss Oil "Fine Paints of Europe" (FPE) paint. (Rembrandt Red)

The decorator insisted on this paint.

I bought 1 quart, and it was $45 dollars.

The door I painted is pine.

I primed the door with 1 coat of white oil based primer (Benjamin Moore Fresh start) 

Then I figured two coats of the FPE would do the trick.

I tried it straight out of the can, trying to apply it in thin coats, but it was hard to handle, and it came out terrible, and took at least a day and a half to two days dry in pretty good weather.

So I added a little thinner, a little penetrol, and some Japan Drier.

And I kept experimenting until by the fifth coat, and sanding a lot between coats with 150, then 220, and tacking it all off-- it finally came out much better.

But I still wasn't happy with it the way It looked compared to a Benjamin Moore Oil High Gloss in terms of the finished appearance.

The can says it is a marine quality paint, so is it really meant for painting boats?

So my question is, since almost everyone seems to feel that FPE Paint is a superior paint.....

Should I have sprayed it on instead? And whether brushing or spraying, how much penetrol is too much, and how much japan drier is too much as well?

Also I used a new china bristle purdy 2.5 inch straight brush. 
I still like china bristle brushes , although some painters say they prefer the stiffer benjamin moore nylon brushes for painting in oil.


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## Roadog (Apr 18, 2007)

I dont think its superior, just expensive. I also dont think penetrol helps your drying issue. I also dont let decorators pick the paint....just the color. What part of the country are you???? Humid or dry.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

you added thinner, penetrol and japan drier, why ?? :blink:


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## JDpainterguy (Oct 19, 2010)

*Using Fine Paints of Euope Paint*

The paint is very thick and plastic- like coming out of the can.
Brushes out poorly.

Penetrol helps it flow better, but I always heard that too much penetrol is not good, so I added thinner. Not too much.

Maybe I could have tried a lot more penetrol and no thinner. Maybe next time.

And the Japan Drier because the stuff just will not dry out like normal paint.

Again not too much drier because it would change the color.

I am in New York. The weather was fine. Not too humid.
But the door was not ready for sanding until after at least 36 hours.

And the decorator looks like a supermodel. I didn;t want to argue.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Hard to beat BM for this kind of stuff.


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## Roadog (Apr 18, 2007)

"And the decorator looks like a supermodel. I didn;t want to argue."

Well that explains it all!


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Roadog said:


> "And the decorator looks like a supermodel. I didn;t want to argue."
> 
> Well that explains it all!


See, there ya go. A little of that goes a long way.:thumbup:


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## Faron79 (Dec 11, 2007)

*Mirror stuff....*

I brushed some out...using a FOAM brush(!)...on a crappy pallet board that I had put 2 coats of primer on, waited a day, then sanded the primer.

It was the same Oil...Hollandlac Brilliant, in Coach Green.

Holy Cr*p...it's like a hunter-green mirror...!
(no thinner or anything used)
FPE's thinners are MUCH stronger than our U.S. stuff.

I didn't try it on a bigger surface though.

On this link...http://http://www.finepaintsofeurope.com/hollandlac_brilliant.aspx...check the red door farther down:sorcerer:....WOW! Lotsa good info on this page, if ya haven't already read it.

I've used the Eurolux Matte in my house.

Faron


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Faron, wow that red door is glassy, so is that green entrance column. Has a unique look to it. Thanks for the post. I'll keep that in mind if I ever need that type of finish. That would look awesome sprayed. :thumbsup:


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## Faron79 (Dec 11, 2007)

*Uffda glossy!*

Yeah...with "Spray Gods" like you dudes out there, you could start a "The European shiny-door club" in your areas!
>>> If you use their high-build primers/putties to prepare a baby's-butt smooth base, the gloss is even more intense:sorcerer:.

Those glossy doors in that link (to ME anyway!) are just stunning. NOTHING like it in U.S. paints so far:brows:.
The paint itself is built differently than our stuff. The "depth of gloss" is quite unique. 

Call FPE and ask for their "Specifier Manual". I've got a couple copies. Lotsa good info. on their whole line. They should be free I believe.

:rockon:

Faron


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Sometimes paints are best left 'unfooledaroundwith' and maybe thats why the OP JD had a bit of trouble. I'm curious how much penetrol JD used. When I was moving stubborn oils, I would use between 4-10oz per quart of paint. Or 1 qt 32oz (entire can) of penetrol to a gallon or more like for SW pro classic years ago. Some guys think a few cap fulls are enough, not so sure about that.

penetrol additive guide.

But the FPE finish is top notch stuff right there! It really demands your attention.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Faron79 said:


> Yeah...with "Spray Gods" like you dudes out there, you could start a "The European shiny-door club" in your areas!
> >>> If you use their high-build primers/putties to prepare a baby's-butt smooth base, the gloss is even more intense:sorcerer:.
> 
> Those glossy doors in that link (to ME anyway!) are just stunning. NOTHING like it in U.S. paints so far:brows:.
> ...


Painting in Europe is a completely different ballgame than what we do here. Talking to some of the Akzo/Sikkens guys that came from Europe, I believe that painting is a 4 year program ( college ) then an apprenticeship after that for a number of years.

I mean here, we complain about working on a building that is 100 or so years old....go to Europe and work on one 2000'ish years old. Completely different, prep, products, and application methods. I can understand why a European product would be difficult to work with. Just because it's "paint" doesnt mean its "paint" the way we know it. :yes:


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> Faron, wow that red door is glassy, so is that green entrance column. Has a unique look to it. Thanks for the post. I'll keep that in mind if I ever need that type of finish. That would look awesome sprayed. :thumbsup:


 I was thinking that would look amazing on a ceiling. I work with a couple of designers and just got a call from one that wants a coffered ceiling put in on a remodel, and she wants it to be really shiny.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

This kinda explains


NCPaint1 said:


> Painting in Europe is a completely different ballgame than what we do here. Talking to some of the Akzo/Sikkens guys that came from Europe, I believe that painting is a 4 year program ( college ) then an apprenticeship after that for a number of years.


Last week my supplier just came out with a new primer product. They claim "European Technology" I thought WTF does that mean?


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> I was thinking that would look amazing on a ceiling. I work with a couple of designers and just got a call from one that wants a coffered ceiling put in on a remodel, and she wants it to be really shiny.


That or a accent wall. Imagine that would look great on anything. Post pics if you go that route.


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## Faron79 (Dec 11, 2007)

*Straightlines...*

Well...ya answered your own question!

That would be a pretty cool look! Would probably knock her socks off...

The Eurolux (100% Acrylic) Interior Gloss, or ECO (Hybrid odorless water thinnable Urethane-Alkyd) Brilliant & Satin would be stunning. This stuff brushes out NIIIICE:scooter:.


NCP...yeah, the apprenticeships for painting there work about the same I s'pose for Electricians here. With the looooonnngg history of painting over there, they don't let any fool  do an important/visible project! Most of the "good" paints over there are above most of ours. They take their paints & painting seriously.
Over HERE....the mentality of many homeowners...sadly...is "Just do it as cheap as you can..."! They have NO idea what a great paint or paintjob IS!

Faron


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## cardwizzard (Sep 13, 2010)

JD, 

Firstly i'm not trying to put you down. You had to coat this door 5 times. Sweet Jesus.

I've just completed an exterior using this stuff. This Hollandlac is without doubt the best product on the market. 2 coat coverage guaranteed!! If you prep properly, good primer and apply it properly it looks amazing. You see the photos Faron has? I agree it can be a little tough to work with, just put it on real light ,nearly dry and the job is sweet. 

This paint in my opinion, is top of the heap. Expensive, but exceptional value for money.


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## JDpainterguy (Oct 19, 2010)

*RE: Fine Paints of Europe*

This Forum/Blog is friggin Fantastick!

And hello to too another new member who said hello to my hello. 


I'll get back on this topic. The can says to put it on with no thinning necessary.

Those Europeans are something else.

But today I was thinking, why not just use lacquer in High Gloss?

Spray it and don't even say it (I mean use lacquer instead of FPE?)

My little guy (Cocker Spaniel) is getting impatient and needs a walk. A true bird-dog. 

Oh and when the decorator shows up on some days with her hair down instead of pulled up...........oh Man!


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

For you guys interested in trying it out they offer a "Dutch Door Kit." 

It would be a nice way to get a "feel" for it.


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## Wallnut (May 4, 2010)

JDpainterguy said:


> I painted the Exterior of a new front door for someone in High Gloss Oil "Fine Paints of Europe" (FPE) paint. (Rembrandt Red)
> 
> The decorator insisted on this paint.
> 
> ...


 
First of all who is everyone who says "FPE is a superior paint"? Second of all why the he#L are you letting a designer tell you what to do? Do you tell her what type brand of fabrics work best? If the designer insists on a certain paint, then fricken tell her that as a professional you know what type of paints and stains work best for what type of applications you are doing!!! What the He#l are you doing if you dont know what to use?!?!? I don't even know what to say here. If the decorator is selecting your materials that says somthing about your ability as a pro. Good Night!


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

bikerboy said:


> For you guys interested in trying it out they offer a "Dutch Door Kit."
> 
> It would be a nice way to get a "feel" for it.


I will most likely do that on my next flip as long as its not a ghetto remodel. I love the look of those entryways. 



jack pauhl said:


> That or a accent wall. Imagine that would look great on anything. Post pics if you go that route.




If I ever decide to use it I will take some pics or maybe a video. Its oil, so it can't be but so hard to work with. If you can get flawless finishes with fast drying acrylic enamel then this stuff should be a breeze.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Wallnut said:


> First of all who is everyone who says "FPE is a superior paint"? Second of all why the he#L are you letting a designer tell you what to do? Do you tell her what type brand of fabrics work best? If the designer insists on a certain paint, then fricken tell her that as a professional you know what type of paints and stains work best for what type of applications you are doing!!! What the He#l are you doing if you dont know what to use?!?!? I don't even know what to say here. If the decorator is selecting your materials that says somthing about your ability as a pro. Good Night!


It's pretty common to have products spec'd on custom work. Ever bid off plans? The finish schedule's can give guidlines and/or specific brands.


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## Wallnut (May 4, 2010)

bikerboy said:


> It's pretty common to have products spec'd on custom work. Ever bid off plans? The finish schedule's can give guidlines and/or specific brands.


I've done banks where they say they want a specific brand and the colour from that brand... I just take it to my guys and have em match it. I was drinkin when i posted that but still decorators shouldn't be telling you what to use... it'd be more accetable if it was a gc...


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## JDpainterguy (Oct 19, 2010)

*RE: Fine Paints of Europe*

Geez Wallnut.......can we say bedside manner?
I won't even mention Farrow and Ball Paints, which I was going to do next.

The Decorator is a source of more work, and keeping her happy makes everyone happy.

FPE is a great paint-- so say the people in one of the highest volume paint stores on the East Coast, and one of the largest Benjamin Moore dealers.
I talk to factory reps who are in that store sometimes.

I am still trying to learn how to use FPE properly, because it gets used on a lot of front doors.

THanks to everyone for the info and tips, and I am going to try spraying it on some indoor columns.

.


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## Roadog (Apr 18, 2007)

I'm not sold on this. The only difference I see in the MSDS is colorant. They use mineral. Otherwise its acrylic or alkyd. Good marketing, and decorators telling there clients its the best. I have friends (paint companies) in the UK and they dont even use this stuff. IMO, the better paints out of Europe are the mineral silicates which are great if you start with it but dont work on top of other paints and work best on homes made out of stone or cement, like in Holland. Not a lot of that type building around me. Just my opinion but I think FPE are over rated.


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## Roamer (Jul 5, 2010)

We've used FPOE extensively. In fact I have 26 pairs of custom made shutters in our shop right now that are painted with the alkyd high gloss black. The stuff is great but not with out its issues. 

Best to think of it like joint compound in application where multiple thin coats are preferred to just two heavy coats. Thin the paint with the FPOE thinner, it also works best with the FPOE primer but the one you used should be fine as long as it wasn't the Fresh Start fast drying primer.

We've done a number of doors and shutters and they still maintain their glass-like high gloss finish to this day. I haven't found a BM product that can do that and certainly not one that is alkyd.


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## JDpainterguy (Oct 19, 2010)

*RE: Fine Paints of Europe*

To Roamer:

Bingo, I did use Fresh Start 094-00. Maybe that was why I had the problems I did. Or maybe it was the red color. I have used a black semi-gloss FPE and it went on no problem on a handrail. Fowed out nice and smooth. 

But a handrail is not a paneled door. The biggest problem was the coverage on all of the edges--again all with a brush.

But I had a look at the door in question today and it actually looks pretty good.

The paint is so shiny that it picks up the waves in the pine grain a little, but overall not bad.

I think I'll get a picture of the door and post it next week.

I'm not a fan of High Gloss personally, but that is just me.

By the way, I was in Williamsburg the last few years. I have a relative that I visit once a year. He lives not far from the Jamestown settlement.
A beautiful part of the country. 

But I was amazed at how expensive Benjamin Moore paint is in Virginia compared to New York. 

Ten bucks or more a gallon in some cases. 
I can get a gallon of Regal Wall Satin (RWS) decorators white lets say as a non-contractor off the street for under 25 bucks.

Moorguard and Glo in Virginia were much more expensive as well etc. etc.


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## IHATE_HOMEDEPOT (May 27, 2008)

My buddy said that the FPoE was colored with ground up glass but who knows.The place where I used to get it sold Omega oval brushes to apply.The reason I was told was so that it would be applied heavy and you would have to really work it to get it to flow out correctly.

Trust me when I say, make the door look perfect if you can.Wet sand or whatever, apply a 6th coat and you won't be sorry, I got a ton of work from a door I did that came out looking good years ago.It's the entrance to the castle. Basically you want people to be afraid to touch it,make it look like it is still drying.


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## admirableptg (Oct 23, 2008)

any time you paint dark red or black try adding allitle black to the primer. p-3 p-4 works much better than white. if they wanted to make the door look like glass we always spray with hvlp. still stick with sw ppg and ben for my products. hopefully paid really well


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## dmpri (Dec 29, 2010)

Here is a door that we did with FPE. Prime, Swedish Putty, Prime, 3 Finish coats, sanding with finer grit inbetween coats. 4-5 MD. There is a right place for this process/product. Just not that often.

House was built in 1920, could be an original door..


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## cardwizzard (Sep 13, 2010)

Nice work dmpri.

Only I don't think you should have reprimed after applying the Swedish putty. Should be ok though. Again door looks sweet.


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## Faron79 (Dec 11, 2007)

Damn....that door looks like it should be in a Magazine!!
...doesn't surprise me though!

Their glosses are just incredible. As I've babbled b4, I used some of the Hollanlac Brilliant "Coach Green", on a sanded 2 prime-coat PALLET-board.
I could damn near read a newspaper in the reflection...DEAD serious.

The REAL secret to those glosses is how long the pigments are ground, and the machine that does it.
It'll probably shock you!
(and no...there's no glass in it!)

Faron


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

Can this product be sprayed ?


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Yes.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

have you ever done it ? pics?


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## cardwizzard (Sep 13, 2010)

Yeah, can be sprayed although I have seen it done, i've no pics.:no:


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## Seattlepainting (Jun 8, 2010)

*Fine Paints of Europe*

This year we have painted several doors with FPoE in Red gloss.

The Fine Paints of Europe clear base primer can be bumped with colorant to match the final coat. The primer is very impressive and resembles a satin oil finish like the old Satin Impervo from Benjamin Moore.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Seattlepainting said:


> This year we have painted several doors with FPoE in Red gloss.
> 
> The Fine Paints of Europe clear base primer can be bumped with colorant to match the final coat. The primer is very impressive and resembles a satin oil finish like the old Satin Impervo from Benjamin Moore.
> 
> Video Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8vckr2W4ss


Nice work John!! Great video too. Are you thinning with paint thinner or naphtha? Good tip on the hvlp. Have you tried the Grand Entrance yet? Not bad but not FPE.


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## trreherd (Sep 15, 2012)

Hey this is my first post here but i felt the need to chime in. Last winter we did a 4000 sq foot house in upstate ny and all the interior was white. On the walls was farrow and ball wimborn white flat, and ALL the trim and doors in the house were FPE brilliant hollandlac pointing. Everything got brushed out, I probly spent 2 weeks painting new doors alone. We used up about 10 euro gallons of the stuff. If you try and brush it strait its like working with glue, it basically cant be done. The trick to brushing it is using a ton of penatrol. Maybe 40 percent, no joke. After that though it spreads like butter, doesent cover as well but whatev. The only other problem we had is the contaminants in the air destroying our work. electricians and carpenters were working while we painted and all the trim in the house feels like sandpaper as a result. Make sure the house is super clean before you start painting with this stuff, take off your shoes at the door also. And to the guy that said ''dont ever let a designer tell you what products to use'' i dont know what planet your painting on but around here if a designer wants something done a certain way, thats the way you do it, period. They can be fussy to deal with but its part of the job. On that job she did spec FPE and im glad she did because if not for her i would have never discovered this awsome product. If you've only ever used domestic paint i highly recomend you try FPE, really neat stuff.


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## Seattlepainting (Jun 8, 2010)

*Thinning Hollandlac*



Damon T said:


> Nice work John!! Great video too. Are you thinning with paint thinner or naphtha? Good tip on the hvlp. Have you tried the Grand Entrance yet? Not bad but not FPE.


Damon, we only use the FPoE thinner; its about three times the cutting strength. You can also use marine grade enamel reducer you buy at the quality marine shops.

I have had bad results with normal thinner..and we do not reduce our brush work much more with spraying.

Here is mailbox we started brushing friday
http://www.shearerpainting.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/hollandlac-brilliant-tulip-red.jpg

Spraying Hollandlac we reduce depending on equipment and amb. temp


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## Repaintpro (Oct 2, 2012)

Wow, I was looking at this line of paint last night on the net. 

I would really love to get some samples over to try!


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

I think Im going to try some on my front door :thumbsup: What would be a good accent color on a cream body (SW Casa Blanca) with Slate Blue trim?


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## Repaintpro (Oct 2, 2012)

Woodland said:


> I think Im going to try some on my front door :thumbsup: What would be a good accent color on a cream body (SW Casa Blanca) with Slate Blue trim?


Burnt orange? 

We want picks Woodland!


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## kmp (Jan 30, 2011)

Red. S/W has a color called fireweed that they could probably match or has something close. I have it on my house and it is sharp.Several houses on my street have red doors with several different color schemes, they all look good.In China a red door is a sign of good fortune, put an american horse shoe on top and double your luck.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

kmp said:


> Red. S/W has a color called fireweed that they could probably match or has something close. I have it on my house and it is sharp.Several houses on my street have red doors with several different color schemes, they all look good.In China a red door is a sign of good fortune, put an american horse shoe on top and double your luck.


Cool. :thumbsup: Im very familiar with SW "Fireweed" Used it on a few front doors myself. :yes:


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

I found out recently that the oil primer has a 12 month window for topcoating. Pretty cool, you could take a year to finish that door Mike, if needed!


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## MrBombastic (Mar 23, 2014)

JDpainter dude with FPOE you have to use their primers. This is a product derived from Europe and their paints will last three times longer than any other American paint if coated correctly. America used to make paint like this, today America doesn't have the High grade painters it should so we make **** paint. This paint is made to fail so the paint manufactures can sell more paint and sell you on minimal DIY prep to apply the paint. Its funny how people think they have victory when they get a painter to lower his price but in the long run that painter is cutting down all his prep and they will end up paying twice or three times as much if they would have just paid the professional price. This is why we have invasions of Illegal Aliens taking mass amounts of work and lots of really ****ty paint jobs! By the way a for you DIY people a painter can blow up your house, so the next time you think we don't need a licensed painter or a professional painter GOOD LUCK!


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

First your a couple years late to this topic.

Second why on gods earth would you even say some thing this stupid?


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Great now I have Shaggy lyrics in my head.


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## Paintdian (Apr 17, 2013)

This paint has looked interesting to me. But one thing I have wondered, with how hard it dries do you think their are problems with cracking over caulked joints?


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## Monstertruck (Oct 26, 2013)

Paintdian said:


> This paint has looked interesting to me. But one thing I have wondered, with *how hard it dries* do you think their are *problems with cracking over caulked joints*?


Not if you use hard caulk.


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## rzwinston (Oct 29, 2014)

*FPE what thinner to use?*

I need a pro help (based in UK)

I have big problem with simillar paint(Wijzonol)
I suppose that it is same paint maker in Europe.
Datasheet for Wijzonol talking about Turpentine and FPE talking about mineral spirit.I tried Rustins Pure Turpentine but with no very good result. 

Thank you


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

rzwinston said:


> I need a pro help (based in UK)
> 
> I have big problem with simillar paint(Wijzonol)
> I suppose that it is same paint maker in Europe.
> ...


Are you a DIYer? Best advise I can give is hire a real painter!


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