# Employees & Tools



## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

I hired a guy that seemed to have experience. I roll up to the job, which he is there waiting :thumbup:
I am spraying and backrolling a ext. I line him up and start to do the things i need to do. I noticed that his masking methods were odd, he had paper and tape (supplied by me). But! No masking machine. So i have 2, i loan him one. So now we are ready to start the fun stuff, i spray he back rolls. He walks up with one of those hallow metal broom handles  SOooo. I loan him mine. 
He was a ok painter but no tools. I did hire him but didnt give him the money he would have gotten, if he had all his own tools. I advised him to get his own tools and told him if he had, he would be getting more money. 
He told me the company that trained him allways supplied the tools.
. 
If you are a employer, What do you guys requirer?
.
I like to see my guys be equipped with the basic tools, brush's, frames, masker, drops, ect..
.
If you are a employee, why wouldnt you want to get your own tools? It enables you to work, for a company and/or sidejobs. 
.
When i 1st started out, that was the 1st few pay checks. I had all my own blades, drops, brushes, frames, ect. Sometimes the owner of the company would ask to barrow my tools, for what ever reason. I didnt have to wait for the boss to start working, i could do sidejobs aswell.


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## tedrin (Oct 22, 2008)

Did you specify in your ad that own tools and transportation was required?

I don't like people using my tools..You never seem to know where the hell they are...If the guy is a really top notch painter,I might make an exception as long as he eventually buys his own stuff...As you know,good help is extremely hard to find.


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

The following is our policy, we do spot-checks.


I can't copy and paste it for some reason.
And there is no way I will type all this, sorry.

​


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## wje (Apr 11, 2009)

ewingpainting.net said:


> I hired a guy that seemed to have experience. I roll up to the job, which he is there waiting :thumbup:
> I am spraying and backrolling a ext. I line him up and start to do the things i need to do. I noticed that his masking methods were odd, he had paper and tape (supplied by me). But! No masking machine. So i have 2, i loan him one. So now we are ready to start the fun stuff, i spray he back rolls. He walks up with one of those hallow metal broom handles  SOooo. I loan him mine.
> He was a ok painter but no tools. I did hire him but didnt give him the money he would have gotten, if he had all his own tools. I advised him to get his own tools and told him if he had, he would be getting more money.
> He told me the company that trained him allways supplied the tools.
> ...


Are you even onsite with your guys? or do you just assign work orders to guys and they go and do the jobs and you just check in when its done? 

Personally I have no problem supplying everything. But I have only 3 guys going, and myself.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I currently supply everything. I have considered having them keep the basics on hand. 

I am not sure I want to enable side jobs though, kind of is aiding the enemy if we want to complain about low ball, uninsured people taking jobs.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

One of my hardest working employees had no tools when he started with us. Only guy I ever saw who showed up without tools.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Somebody with little or no experience that is in training should have everthing supplied to him. A experienced painter should have almost all his own equipment, minus some extension ladders and some other odds and ends. No one is going to have all the equipment you have, well most wont. 
You should have a punch list of expected equipment for you new hires and you can go through the list during the application process.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

bikerboy said:


> One of my hardest working employees had no tools when he started with us. Only guy I ever saw who showed up without tools.


I bet he was eager to buy himself some tools though?


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## dosgris (Jan 6, 2008)

Ewingpainting, I think you are out of line expecting your employees to furnish things such as masking machine, roller polls, brushes, roller frames and drop cloths.

A painter should at least show up with basics in their gripp such as pot hook, duster, hammer, nail set, putty knives, 5-in-1, scraper, caulk gun. If he has more - so much the better, but not necessary. The company should supply all expendables, other tools and equipment as necessary.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

dosgris said:


> Ewingpainting, I think you are out of line expecting your employees to furnish things such as masking machine, roller polls, brushes, roller frames and drop cloths.
> 
> A painter should at least show up with basics in their gripp such as pot hook, duster, hammer, nail set, putty knives, 5-in-1, scraper, caulk gun. If he has more - so much the better, but not necessary. The company should supply all expendables, other tools and equipment as necessary.


An experience painter should have his own brushes, caulking gun, step ladder, knee pads, 6 in 1, The basics at least. As far as the tape machine, tape, caulk, rags, stuff like that should be provided. 

A punch list of what you expect them to have should be gone through with them.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Basically, everything was mine. How else could I guarantee then had good brushes and such ?


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

What type of hiring process do you go thru?

When we hire a prepman, I provide shirts, pants, basic tools.
Then advance them up the ladder with "bonuses" of hand tools they keep and are responsible for and pay increases.


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## DarthPainter (Jul 26, 2009)

Our guys need their own tools, but we will give them a grace period of about a week if they don't have any. Times are tough, and lately, we've been finding a lot of our new employees are coming from other trades with a small bit of painting experience. It's kind of a double edge sword: we can expand the avenues that our business can handle and do a lot of extra work, and these guys all know their way around a job site and all about running jobs, but we're also training guys how to paint

One nice thing is that we let employees use our accounts with SW and ICI to help purchase their tools, which shaves a pretty nice amount off of their final costs and helps insure that they get quality tools.


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## SDpaint (Aug 5, 2009)

I expect an experienced painter to at the very least provide brushes, frames, buckets, pole, blades, just the basics. I have had a few guys that have almost everything even an airless, this in my mind is not a requirement but deffinetly a plus..


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## michfan (Jul 6, 2008)

dosgris said:


> Ewingpainting, I think you are out of line expecting your employees to furnish things such as masking machine, roller polls, brushes, roller frames and drop cloths.
> 
> A painter should at least show up with basics in their gripp such as pot hook, duster, hammer, nail set, putty knives, 5-in-1, scraper, caulk gun. If he has more - so much the better, but not necessary. The company should supply all expendables, other tools and equipment as necessary.


I agree. Most guys we have hired (who are at least somewhat experienced) usually have a small collection of essentials like brushes, and other important hand tools. We have never required that they supply anything...The hardest part is staying somewhat organized which helps keep all that equipment from slowly disappearing:no:


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## Ardee (Jun 9, 2008)

I supply everything except putty knives, brushes and transportation. If employees are required to supply all there own tools and equipment, why would they require employers?

A subcontractor is a different story.


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## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

I have never heard of requiring a painter to supply their own tools. If you are subbing to them then they have too. If they work for you you should supply everything. I have never worked any job that I had to provide tools. I bet it would make it easier to find good help if you provided tools. Just a thought but how can you expect someone to buy their own tools when you are probably paying less than 15 an hour. When I worked for a painter all tools were supplied and all foreman 5 of them had company trucks.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Interesting thoughts on this one. 

If one is a experienced painter, they should have ther own tools. think about it. " I have 8 years experience, no I dont have tools " 
Handmasker$60.000
Putty knife $4.00
Caulking gun $20.00
2 runners $40.00
Extension Pole 2' To 4' & 4' to 8' $50.003
Roller frame x 2 $20.00
mini roller frames x2 $6.00
grids and deuces $10.00
brushes x2 $50.00
*A total of about 300 bucks WOW! *
*I sure am out line.*











dosgris said:


> Ewingpainting, I think you are out of line expecting your employees to furnish things such as masking machine, roller polls, brushes, roller frames and drop cloths.
> 
> A painter should at least show up with basics in their gripp such as pot hook, duster, hammer, *nail set*, putty knives, 5-in-1, scraper, caulk gun. If he has more - so much the better, but not necessary. The company should supply all expendables, other tools and equipment as necessary.


however I wouldn't expect him or her to have a nail set


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

tedrin said:


> Did you specify in your ad that own tools and transportation was required?


I have never hired any one from an add.



wje said:


> Are you even onsite with your guys? or do you just assign work orders to guys and they go and do the jobs and you just check in when its done?


These days, Both



DeanV said:


> I am not sure I want to enable side jobs though, kind of is aiding the enemy if we want to complain about low ball, uninsured people taking jobs.


A 500 dollar side job is a legit job in Cali and im not chasing those jobs. I utilize my lic and chase work that only requires a lic contractors.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

I require my people to have their own hand tools. Ladders I will supply due to insurance liabilities. Drops I supply, as I do hand-maskers, roller extension poles over 4', etc..

If I notice the guys take care of their brushes, I dont mind buying new ones.


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## The Painter Guy (Dec 10, 2007)

We supply everything, but have one employee who was a former contractor who has all his own equipment. Brushes are maintained by the guys and replaced as needed.


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## daren (Jul 5, 2008)

I provide tools. If a man uses his own on my job and wears it out then I will replace it. He is making me money and the hand tools don't cost much compared to that. I do think it is smart for a painter to have his own tools for side jobs. It's how many businesses have started.
:boat:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

I think Michfan touched a relavent point.

I found that if the tools are company owened, they have less of a habit of being "borrowed"

The first job I had in the trades was summer employ as a framer. The only tool we needed to own was a hammer (and holster) .... wll maybe a nail apron, but the canvas ones were free at most lumber yards.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Canvas nail aprons. Everyone looks at the box of them I have and laughs, but they're great for painters and paperhangers. Funny how I notice all my guys using them.

I have a fairly liberal policy for my guys borrowing tools, even for their side-jobs or home projects. It's worked well for me so far...knock on wood.


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## BESMAN (Jul 15, 2009)

guys should have their own brushes, duster and a hand tool...anything else is a bonus but not expected.


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## Calist (Jul 19, 2009)

We require all our new painters to have the basics. Several reasons for this but the most important is past experience. Hired a guy once who said he knew how to do everything I needed. Perhaps I was leading him to much but he said he knew it all, but no tools. I hired him, provided him with the tools, he didn't know squat. Then when I let him go, he took all the tools I supplied him with him. 

Another time I hired a guy who was a very very good painter with no tools, turned out he was a drug addict and showed up on the job stoned in front of a very religious Home Owner. I lost the client, he lost his job. Turned out he'd pawned all his tools for drug money.

If you don't have the basics, don't even apply. I supply the ladders, the expendibles like tape, durabond, paper, rags, ect. You supply your own drops, brushes, rollers, (I give Covers), ect.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I thought equipment and supplies were part of a company's overhead. However, a painter should at least have a scraper, screwdriver, and a rag.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

We supply everything, including T-shirts & pants, however it is up to each painter to see that they have everything they need to start a project. after many years in the biz, I have found that most painters are tight as**s and if you don't supply the brushes they will be using them down to a nub. Kinda like trying to paint with a wire brush. Which slows progress and produces a crappy finished product. My guys never have an excuse for looking unprofessional or not having the right tools. Most of my guys prefer to use their own stuff including spray rigs, ladders, & drops. But if they are in bad condition they are not allowed. I even split the cost of repairs on their spray rigs since they are using them on my jobs.


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## michfan (Jul 6, 2008)

CApainter said:


> I thought equipment and supplies were part of a company's overhead. However, a painter should at least have a scraper, screwdriver, and a rag.


Yea, once again, I agree. Equipment is part of overhead. I have never heard of an employer expecting the employee to show up with his own drops, rollers, roller poles, sanders, sandpaper, caulk, plastic, tape, etc. Brushes, dusters, 5 in 1s, handtools, and maybe a caulk gun have been the norm that I have seen. I mean, if you start asking all your guys to bring tons of tools are you gonna supply each of them with a van to haul it all? Look at it from their perspective. 

Does a store make a clerk bring in his own cash register to check out customers? Does a restaurant make a cook bring in all his own utensils and dishes to cook with? No, they provide you with the necessary tools to do your job the way they want you to do it. 

If a guy has some stuff, great. That's a bonus for us. If he doesn't does that mean he has no clue how to paint? Not necessarily.


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## BESMAN (Jul 15, 2009)

Buying your guys pants seems odd to me, although certainly a nice gesture.Everyone likes free shirts and pants.

Personally, i never make anyone wear whites if they don't want to..i was never comfortable in them, so i don't expect anyone else to be.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

I remember when, i walked out side of a house we were painting. Laying in the dirt was a 2 1/2" purdy brush. Supplied by the company. That was the last time we supplied basic tools
.
However, i just gave a 2 1/2" purdy as a "job well done" bonus. I dont think i will ever see that laying in the dirt. I have also gave out mask machines, caulk guns, 6n1, ect. 
If i know a guy is just hurting for money and i think he is worth it. I will usually set him up with a few basics and feed him more as he proves himself. 
.
I would rather have them own there basic tool set. I like a self motivated employee to think for himself. And, i don't think that is out of line. I know a few framers that have to own and use their nailers, lines, and compressors. 
.
The best thing a boss did for me, was set me up with my own tools. And, i don't mind doing the same for a well rounded hard working painter.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Michfan 
I think different environments call for different measures. That is how I was trained. I allways had my own tools and so did my fellow employees. I am amazed that a employer thinks he should supplly basic tools. Not! Sundries as you stated in your post. A chef at a Denny's will have his tools supplied by Denny's. However a chef at Morton's Steakhouse, will have his own set of knives. But hey, it is Morton's Steakhouse!


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

*Basic Tools*



michfan said:


> I mean, if you start asking all your guys to bring tons of tools are you gonna supply each of them with a van to haul it all? Look at it from their perspective.


The basic tools can fit in a empty fiver. It would only require a passenger seat or trunk. We are talking about basic tools, right?


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

BESMAN said:


> Buying your guys pants seems odd to me, although certainly a nice gesture.Everyone likes free shirts and pants.
> 
> Personally, i never make anyone wear whites if they don't want to..i was never comfortable in them, so i don't expect anyone else to be.


I will not allow a guy on the job without whites on....jeans just looks like day labor to me.

I worked for a very large industrial/commercial company in Ohio and they required you to use their uniform company that would supply you with 14 pair of button up white shirts with company logo and your name embroidered on them and those real thin white"bakers pants". You had to bring in your dirty clothes every Monday and they would take them out and dry clean them. Pick them up next Monday, pressed, clean on hangers & wrapped in plastic. They took $9 a week out of your check. It was actually pretty nice!


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

Basic hand tools* are required, anything else I provide.


*No need to describe what "basic hand tools" are, I hope.


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## flowjo (Apr 25, 2009)

really if you want to call yourself a pro have your own tools okay maybe not extension ladders or 12 foot poles but really all the basics in your tool bag or tool bucket caulk,scrapers,tape,brushes,scissors,putty knives,razor knife,goose neck,putty lol basically everything you will need from day to day or in those situations where your boss doesnt have to drive half way across the city to bring you. i hate working with guys that repeatedly ask me for simple things they should own, you cant rely on everyone else be prepared!!! every single professional in the world owns there own tools


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## 1977corey (Feb 27, 2009)

WisePainter said:


> Basic hand tools* are required, anything else I provide.
> 
> 
> *No need to describe what "basic hand tools" are, I hope.


thats not too difficult for a one man show.........:jester:


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## BESMAN (Jul 15, 2009)

aaron61 said:


> I will not allow a guy on the job without whites on....jeans just looks like day labor to me.
> 
> I worked for a very large industrial/commercial company in Ohio and they required you to use their uniform company that would supply you with 14 pair of button up white shirts with company logo and your name embroidered on them and those real thin white"bakers pants". You had to bring in your dirty clothes every Monday and they would take them out and dry clean them. Pick them up next Monday, pressed, clean on hangers & wrapped in plastic. They took $9 a week out of your check. It was actually pretty nice!



Different strokes for different folks i guess...i used to get whites, but i just could never find a pair i liked..They were always tight in the crotch and end up making it tough too move around in tight situations.
Shirts are a no brainer.....it's free advertising.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

I require my guys to wear whites also. If they are pressure washing or deck/fence staining I dont mind them wearing jeans. Usually once a year I put in a large order for whites in the sizes my guys wear.


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## gamebird (Jul 18, 2009)

I agree with owning your own brushes and caulk gun. Most people get use to the way a brush works, or a gun works. I myself have used other peoples tools, and they didn't "feel" quite right. Before I got into painting, I used to paint locomotives...the company I worked for used to supply everything. There was nothing worse than going to spray clear coat on a 70' loco, and have the gun spit out chunks of dried paint because the guy before you didn't clean it properly!


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

gamebird said:


> I agree with owning your own brushes and caulk gun. Most people get use to the way a brush works, or a gun works. I myself have used other peoples tools, and they didn't "feel" quite right. Before I got into painting, I used to paint locomotives...the company I worked for used to supply everything. There was nothing worse than going to spray clear coat on a 70' loco, and have the gun spit out chunks of dried paint because the guy before you didn't clean it properly!


Very true! Who remembers "Old Blue" ?


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

RCP said:


> Very true! Who remembers "Old Blue" ?


Who that?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Vermont's caulking gun.


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## johnisimpson (Oct 5, 2007)

I've got 2 guys that both have their own basic kit and one guy that doesn't. I used to think that I would take care of providing everything but I've been going more and more toward expecting a worker to provide his own brushes, roller frames, 5n1, and caulk gun. Too many tools were being cared for improperly for me to cover it. It's not much cost to the employee and I'll help a good employee out with the purchase if they need it.
If I do go back to providing everything, I will mark each of these tools and the employee will be responsible for its maintenance and upkeep and will have the replacement deducted from their pay if required. Of course I won't charge them if they've just used a tool for its reasonable life span but they'll cover it if it's a brush that's not been cleaned or another 5n1 lost in the bushes.


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## gamebird (Jul 18, 2009)

It is amazing how much better care they take of it when they paid for it.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

gamebird said:


> There was nothing worse than going to spray clear coat on a 70' loco, and have the gun spit out chunks of dried paint because the guy before you didn't clean it properly!


:yes: and as the employer it is very hard and a waist of time, to find out who left it like that. We use to assign rigs. If you were a spray man, you would have your own rig, line, guns, ect.


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## gamebird (Jul 18, 2009)

Thats what I ended up doing. Went out and bought my own complete setup....was nice, I knew everytime I sprayed with it...it would be the same.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

johnisimpson said:


> If I do go back to providing everything, I will mark each of these tools and the employee will be responsible for its maintenance and upkeep :thubmbup: and will have the replacement deducted from their pay if required. Of course I won't charge them if they've just used a tool for its reasonable life span but they'll cover it if it's a brush that's not been cleaned or another 5n1 lost in the bushes.


I thought that way, its logical, but it is most definitely illegle. 
At least in cali, look in your state employment laws.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

According to the link I posted, an employer, in CA, must pay the employee at least twice the amount of minimum wage if they are required to supply their own tools. I think that would be $16.00 per hour now. This article was from 2006.

http://www.laboremploymentlawblog.com/wage-and-hour-california-set-to-increase-minimum-wage.html


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Kind of interesting what a CA painters local agreed to in a contract, what should be basic tool and uniform requirements. THis was back in mid 2000's 

http://www.dir.ca.gov/dlsr/2002-2/PWD/Travel/200-294-1-Tra.PDF


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

The site attached made me think that a situation where an employer should or should not supply tools, is based on whether the worker is an employee, or independent contractor.

http://www.leg.wa.gov/documents/joint/UECI/092607/ICLOthStsTable.pdf


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

That's all I got! Just trying to raise my post and thank you count.


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## Andyman (Feb 21, 2009)

There is a fine line when you require workers to bring there own tools and whether they are an employee or subcontractor. If I supply tools then I'm technically an employer. Now I also agree that an experienced painter might want to bring their own personal tools, which is fine, but I'm not requiring it.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

CAPainter brought up some good points!:thumbsup:


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Thanks Chris. (The checks in the mail)


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## WAGGZ (Apr 2, 2009)

BESMAN said:


> Different strokes for different folks i guess...i used to get whites, but i just could never find a pair i liked..They were always tight in the crotch and end up making it tough too move around in tight situations.
> Shirts are a no brainer.....it's free advertising.



I wear them but I agree they're like a cheap hotel....no ballroom.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

WAGGZ said:


> I wear them but I agree they're like a cheap hotel....no ballroom.



:thumbsup: LOL literally.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

huh?! no place to dance?!


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Carharts are the only ones that fit me.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Through the ages, there have been discussions on what painters wear, and if whites should be "encouraged"

Personally, I think that many HO's have come to expect it. Whites are, to many, a professional "trade mark" , like scrubs for the hospital personel.

One of my painting buddies wears jeans, doesn't even have interior and exterior ones. Any paint on jeans is more noticible. So I guess it comes down to if you want to look as clean as possible or not or if you want to look like what many consider professional

I have my preference.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

With all the colors we use today, do you really think it shows up less on white? I wear whites, but I think paint shows up more on them.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Over the weekend, I recalled another benefit for the company supplying brushes.

Let's say Jack is working on the siding with a nice 3" oval, but you need him on some high visability windows, because he's the best on the crew for that. So you send up Marissa to take Jack's place on the siding. With company owned brushes, it is a quick and easy hand-off of the brush. 

With company brushes, not as many brushes are being washed at the end of the day - a real time saver. 

With company scrapers, the owner can be sure that the blades are new and/or sharpened well - another time saver. 

Again, I found it saved time and assured quality of tools when I supplied them. Obviously I would allow another to use his own tools, but I kept an eye on the performans of those tools.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

DeanV said:


> With all the colors we use today, do you really think it shows up less on white? I wear whites, but I think paint shows up more on them.



I am not sure what color you use most, but if majority of color is blue, then by all means, jeans would be the best to hide the paint. 

All I know is how his pants looked vs painters with whites.


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## DarthPainter (Jul 26, 2009)

Jeans are the only thing I'll wear. They're simply more durable and more comfortable, and less expensive. I can buy three pairs of work jeans for the price of one pair of whites. And, also, I have a hard enough time find pants that fit right (I'm 6'5 and very lean), so finding whites that would fit is way more of a hassle.

Also, I'm a young guy with piercings and tattoos; whites don't look right on me. I usually am wearing jeans with my sex pistols or dope t-shirt. If, on the very rare occassion, I'm doing residential work, then I just change up the t-shirt to a plain black one.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Every color except white to off white contrasts strongly with painters pants. With Tan/Khaki or Blue, the contrast is not as great, I think.


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## DarthPainter (Jul 26, 2009)

daArch said:


> Over the weekend, I recalled another benefit for the company supplying brushes.
> 
> Let's say Jack is working on the siding with a nice 3" oval, but you need him on some high visability windows, because he's the best on the crew for that. So you send up Marissa to take Jack's place on the siding. With company owned brushes, it is a quick and easy hand-off of the brush.
> 
> ...


This is a good point, but at the same time, I find that no two people like the same brush (or at least it's very rare) unless it's something like using a monster 4'' for stain or poly work. I know a lot of guys who use a 2 or 2 1/2 for everything (myself included) whole a lot of guys like 3 inch brushes. I use angle sash for nearly everything, but a lot of people are more comfortable with flat sashes.

The best solution is for each employee to bring a couple of their favorite brushes and a few specialty brushes in case they need to switch up and have them throw their used brushes in some water until it's cleaning time. The paint stays wet and the brush stays supple enough to clean and by then most of the paint is out anyways.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

maybe we here in New England are just more white bread than other locales. :thumbup:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

DarthPainter said:


> The best solution is for each employee to bring a couple of their favorite brushes and a few specialty brushes in case they need to switch up and have them throw their used brushes in some water until it's cleaning time. The paint stays wet and the brush stays supple enough to clean and by then most of the paint is out anyways.


Obviously the discussion is about what each business owner has found works best for them.

No one size fits all.

just tossing out ideas


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## DarthPainter (Jul 26, 2009)

daArch said:


> Obviously the discussion is about what each business owner has found works best for them.
> 
> No one size fits all.
> 
> just tossing out ideas


Oh, I didn't mean any offense. I was just saying that brushes, in particular, are usually a gray area with painters; some don't care what they use, to others, it's everything. I can completely agree that the company can and should supply some tools, like extension poles beyond 4 feet. An extension pole is usually pretty similar to the next, as are 18 inch roller frames, etc.


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## Rob (Aug 9, 2009)

Nobody uses my brushes! I buy brushes for my guys and teach them the proper care and use. Part of their Christmas bonus is a duffel bag with new tools.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Rob said:


> Nobody uses my brushes! I buy brushes for my guys and teach them the proper care and use. Part of their Christmas bonus is a duffel bag with new tools.


Good deal, Did Chris tell you she gave me a job from Dec- 16 -20th Looks like I will just make the gift cut. I like power tools. :jester:


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## WAGGZ (Apr 2, 2009)

This thread reminds me of the first guy I painted with. I was 16, didn't have a single tool. Sometime in the 2nd week of work he told me to do something with a putty knife, I had to go to HIS van and get one. When I got back he said "I paid you $XXX last week and you don't have a putty knife, any real painter has a putty knife, get in your damn car right now and go buy one." I still use that knife everyday. Earlier this summer I misplaced it for a week, you'd thought my dog died.


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## flowjo (Apr 25, 2009)

WAGGZ said:


> This thread reminds me of the first guy I painted with. I was 16, didn't have a single tool. Sometime in the 2nd week of work he told me to do something with a putty knife, I had to go to HIS van and get one. When I got back he said "I paid you $XXX last week and you don't have a putty knife, any real painter has a putty knife, get in your damn car right now and go buy one." I still use that knife everyday. Earlier this summer I misplaced it for a week, you'd thought my dog died.


ya man me 2 i love my putty knife its so sharp and when some patching or whatever drywall repair needs to be done shes right there in my hand ive had it for a long time now its my oldest tool


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## flowjo (Apr 25, 2009)

DeanV said:


> With all the colors we use today, do you really think it shows up less on white? I wear whites, but I think paint shows up more on them.


TOTALLY AGREE i kinda wanna make my own paint pants stylish proffessional yet very comfortable and durable 

as for the colors of the paints there will be grey blue white and beige and there will be built in kneepads not big ones but just enough cushion and elastic waist but there will be belt ring for a belt of course just for those guys that like to tuck in there shirts. These pants will never exist unless someone makes it so !!!!


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Well, I guess I will confess what we wear. I require white pants and our company shirts, which are bright green. Looks real good with the white pants. And, I have to say I think pant shows more on white. We are hard to miss when 2-4 guys are working on a house. I have gotten so many complements since I have switched and a few jealous glares from my competitors.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Nice looking shirt.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

DarthPainter said:


> Jeans are the only thing I'll wear. They're simply more durable and more comfortable, and less expensive. I can buy three pairs of work jeans for the price of one pair of whites. And, also, I have a hard enough time find pants that fit right (I'm 6'5 and very lean), so finding whites that would fit is way more of a hassle.
> 
> Also, I'm a young guy with piercings and tattoos; whites don't look right on me. I usually am wearing jeans with my sex pistols or dope t-shirt. If, on the very rare occassion, I'm doing residential work, then I just change up the t-shirt to a plain black one.


NICE Look...I've been lookin for I guy like you. That should make Mrs. smith and her kids feel very comfortable. :thumbsup:
Oh! did you know you can order any size pants you need.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

daArch said:


> Over the weekend, I recalled another benefit for the company supplying brushes.
> 
> Let's say Jack is working on the siding with a nice 3" oval, but you need him on some high visability windows, because he's the best on the crew for that. So you send up Marissa to take Jack's place on the siding. With company owned brushes, it is a quick and easy hand-off of the brush.
> 
> ...


This brings me back to my point. Painters will try to use the worse brush you could imagine to try to run some trim or cut a line. The tools they buy on my dime are their responsibility. It just eliminates allot of excuses to supply everything.


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## BESMAN (Jul 15, 2009)

I should say that i don't even wear pants, i wear shorts to help stay cool. Also, like i said it makes it easier for me to move around. Usually khaki unless i just have an old pair of shorts that needs to be sacrificed. Our shirts are always white/grey and clean, which also helps us keep cool. Company logo on the shirts..when they start getting dirty then we have some new rags.

AAron is right about brushes....when i was young i tried to use them as long as i possibly could because i just wasn't being paid enough to buy new ones constantly. Now i have enough around that its no big deal to throw someone a new brush.
Using the old brushes when i was young though...i think it taught me to cut a straight line no matter what the situation...I'm pretty sure if i tried, i could cut a perfectly straight line while blindfolded using my fingerpaints.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

DarthPainter said:


> I can buy three pairs of work jeans for the price of one pair of whites.


 
I find it to be the opposite I can get D!ckies painter pants and shorts for on average 12 bucks a pair. 




*Gabe*,
Nice looking shirt. I like that look.


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## In Demand (Mar 24, 2008)

I work alone for the time being, but when I had a couple of guys working for me I supplied everything. If they are good guys then they will take care of the equipment, and if they dont then replace them.
Every company I ever worked for has always supplied everything, thats just how it is done around here I guess. I figure if I am bringing all of my own equipment, then my boss better keep me real busy, because if I had a day off I might just pony up the cash for some liability insurance and become a competitor, I mean I already have all of the tools.
The last company I worked for would assign each employee a tool box with 3 brushes, 2 rollers, a pot hook, a wire brush, and a caulk gun. The only thing we were expected to bring was a putty knife and a screwdriver. Everything else that we would ever need was assigned to a crew leader and he would keep it all in his company van and make sure it was all put back at the end of the day.
When your equipment wore out you just took the old one to the boss and he would give you a replacement, no old brush to turn in meant no new brush. If you let your brush or roller dry out, then you had to buy a new one, but if it wore out from proper use then he would replace it.


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

Here is the list from our employee manual:
​Painting tools required ​ 

*A painter is required to carry the minimum set of tools.*

*These tools have to be stored in a tool bag or tool box and must go with the painter daily.

Painters tool bags will not stay in the shop area overnight. *


The tools must be of trade quality and kept clean at all times.
**Painters can not show up to work without these tools.



*Minimum set required*


· 2 Quality paint brushes, kept clean and maintained
· Utility knife
· Scissors
· Pliers
· Hammer
· Dust brush
· Rags
· Sanding sponge 
· Pole sander attachment with 120 sandpaper (change it often)
· Screwdriver, multi-bit
· 5 in 1 tool (with metal base in handle)
· Patching knives, 2 inch, 3 inch
· Some spackle for when company supply is not available
· Caulking gun with caulking
· Roller cage
· Safety goggles


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

ModernStyle said:


> I work alone for the time being, but when I had a couple of guys working for me I supplied everything. If they are good guys then they will take care of the equipment, and if they dont then replace them.
> Every company I ever worked for has always supplied everything, thats just how it is done around here I guess. I figure if I am bringing all of my own equipment, then my boss better keep me real busy, because if I had a day off I might just pony up the cash for some liability insurance and become a competitor, I mean I already have all of the tools.
> The last company I worked for would assign each employee a tool box with 3 brushes, 2 rollers, a pot hook, a wire brush, and a caulk gun. The only thing we were expected to bring was a putty knife and a screwdriver. Everything else that we would ever need was assigned to a crew leader and he would keep it all in his company van and make sure it was all put back at the end of the day.
> When your equipment wore out you just took the old one to the boss and he would give you a replacement, no old brush to turn in meant no new brush. If you let your brush or roller dry out, then you had to buy a new one, but if it wore out from proper use then he would replace it.



BINGO!


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Whats up with the scissors, in all my days as a painter, i have never had scissors in my tool set. Nor have i ever been asked where or if i had any scissors. Must be one of those east cost things. 
Huh!
Any how, do you make them bring their own caulking and sandpapper?


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

George Z said:


> ​*Minimum set required*
> 
> 
> · 2 Quality paint brushes, kept clean and maintained
> ...


George is that what you expect them to provide or is that just what you make them pack around?


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

Workaholic said:


> George is that what you expect them to provide or is that just what you make them pack around?


They have to have these with them at all times,
there are spot-checks!

It doesn't cost much to put that together, we help if necessary.
What is important, all this is compact enough to go in a small bag.


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## jason123 (Jul 2, 2009)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Whats up with the scissors, in all my days as a painter, i have never had scissors in my tool set. Nor have i ever been asked where or if i had any scissors. Must be one of those east cost things.
> Huh!
> Any how, do you make them bring their own caulking and sandpapper?


One thing scissors can be used for is trimming an edge of a new roller. Giving it a little haircut


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

George Z said:


> Here is the list from our employee manual:
> 
> Painting tools required ​
> 
> ...


George,

I wasn't going to say anything about your list, but since others are, I'd though I'd join the mob  (sorry, couldn't resist)

but seriously, what I said before about quality is reinforced by your list - at least in my reality.

I read the list and many of these items can be bought at a dollar store and end up wasting the company money. I can't imagine the caulking and gun that could show up on the job. That's a scary thought allowing workers to provide those. And "some spackle"? IMO, that would be as scary as using what the HO provides. 

I could comment on the variables of many items. Like 2 brushes. What sizes? What if they think Sears Best means "quality"? 

As owners we are responsible for the quality of work and materials. To that end, we need therefore provide tools and material with which our workers can provide that level of quality. Most employees are not paid the big bucks, and if they are less than experienced, they may not understand the value of GOOD tools and try to save a dollar here and there which will end up costing the owner more money than a good tool would cost. 

but that is just my experience. You milage will obviously differ.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

George Z said:


> Here is the list from our employee manual:
> 
> Painting tools required ​
> 
> ...


you might want to add razor blades to the list.


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

daArch said:


> George,
> 
> I wasn't going to say anything about your list, but since others are, I'd though I'd join the mob  (sorry, couldn't resist)
> 
> ...


Works great for us, so I am sharing. If that is a problem let me know.
It may not work for your crews, that's why I run my own company.

My painters will not show up with dollar store tools, where do you get that?

"The tools must be of trade quality and kept clean at all times"
Maybe you missed that.

We also train apprentices, owning their own hand tools learning how to use them and maintaining them is part of their training.

Do you have such a huge issue with a painter owning their hand tools?

We help them buy them if they need that.
Our painters love having their tools, maybe I should tell them to turn them in?

A painter owning a caulking gun (trade quality), how horrible is that?

As far as the size of brush, some like 2.5 inch, some 3 inch, some 4 inch,
Is there a protocol we should stick to?
As far as Sears, they all get them from our B. Moore dealer, the dealer has my list of what is acceptable, usually Corona and Purdy, mostly Coronas.

Spackle and caulking is part of the job costs of every job. We don't carry them from job to job. Painters are encouraged to take leftovers, so they can start work should the job supplies are late for the next job.
So sundries from a jobsite are not of inferior quality either, I don't care for the implication of inferior quality made here either.


_Quote:_
_but seriously, what I said before about quality is reinforced by your list - _


I wish I don't have to waste my time defending implications about quality
like the above statement.

By sprinkling 



> at least in my reality


couple of times does not take it that back.

I don't have the time to address the explanations either, we are all busy here. 

Everything about our company is *QUALITY.*
This shouldn't be a place to defend that, just a place to share and be proud of our achievements.


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## JNLP (Dec 13, 2007)

First company I worked for bought everything for you, but it got taken out of your pay. Nice for those just starting that were tight on cash as all new painters apear to be around here. Pretty much every other company I ever worked for though required you to have your own basics. Brushes, scrapers, etc. Never extension poles, frames, drops, or ladders though.

I simply hate to share anything though. Don't like to have to run to the van to get the "good pole & frame" before the other guy for that day. So always had my own. Even used my own runners for interiors so I didn't have to deal with the companies old beat up drops they refuse to replace. It allows you to find your warm happy place at the beginning of the day & just roll on through it. :thumbsup:


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

George Z said:


> Our painters love having their tools, maybe I should tell them to turn them in?
> 
> A painter owning a caulking gun (trade quality), how horrible is that?


I remeber when I first was being trained and moved into some brush work after so much prep I couldn't wait to have my own brushes to use. It is a pride thing, that and having your brush just the way you left it and not having to get the first pick. 

A caulking gun is on my list of basic tools that one should have as well. 
Caulk and rags as you mentioned would be provided but as you said they are encouraged to keep some on hand for the start of the next job. 

I hope I did not come across as questioning your quality or what works for you George. I know from reading your posts over the years that you are not sub-par. 
I was just clarifying that as a new hire that the list you gave was what you expected them to provide. My list for an experienced painter (not a guy in training) would be this.
01. a couple of brushes (a trim brush and a cut in brush )
02. Caulking gun
03. Hammer
04. Utility knife
05. License
06. Dependable transportation
Anything else would be a bonus. A step ladder and many other things should be in a sesoned painters bag of tricks but I know a lot of painters want everything provided


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

George Z said:


> Works great for us, so I am sharing. If that is a problem let me know.
> It may not work for your crews, that's why I run my own company.
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry to have offended and put you on the defensive. Not my intent. Just trying to give you a bit of what I seen.

peace, bro


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

My list is similar to G's (maybe a lil more extensive). *It really depends on how you want to run your biz.* We don't hire folks to train. So, my biz model is a lil different. I interview professional painters. If they don't have the tools then we don't consider them professionals. However, there have been limited circumstances where we'll help them purchase large dollar items. 

Think about it, if you are a professional painter then you've got your own tools - right?


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

daArch said:


> Sorry to have offended and put you on the defensive. Not my intent. Just trying to give you a bit of what I seen.
> 
> peace, bro


No problem, sorry.
rough day today


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## In Demand (Mar 24, 2008)

Do you pay your guys extra if they are using their own equipment ?
My whole thing with it would be why put the wear and tear on my equipment if I am not getting anything extra out of it.
I havent seen anyone say the require an airless, but someone said they like it if a guy has one. Do you pay him extra if he uses his equipment ? What about if a guy has an extra ladder that nobody else has ? 
Personally I would bring in the bare essentials, nothing extra, because I am not gonna supply extra equipment that nobody else brings if I am not getting extra money to do so.
I am not knocking anyone else's business practices, if it works for you and the cash is coming in then more power to ya. 
Do any of you guys who make your employee's supply things ever consider selling the equipment to employees ? I mean as far as buying power goes a company buying something in bulk would have a better discount then an individual buying 1 or 2 of an item. Maybe you could find out what brush most of your guys prefer and buy a couple of cases to keep on hand and sell them to your guys at cost. IMO this would kill 2 birds with one stone, your employees could get quality brushes or whatever without making a trip to the store and maybe saving a couple of bucks off of retail, and for you it would help insure that employees had the equipment they were required to have and that the equipment was in good working order.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

George Z said:


> No problem, sorry.
> rough day today


Sorry to hear that. Tomorrow will be better. (that's what good about a bad day, the next one just HAS to be better :thumbup: )


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

ModernStyle said:


> Do you pay your guys extra if they are using their own equipment ?
> My whole thing with it would be why put the wear and tear on my equipment if I am not getting anything extra out of it.
> I havent seen anyone say the require an airless, but someone said they like it if a guy has one. Do you pay him extra if he uses his equipment ? What about if a guy has an extra ladder that nobody else has ?
> Personally I would bring in the bare essentials, nothing extra, because I am not gonna supply extra equipment that nobody else brings if I am not getting extra money to do so.
> ...


I agree and hear where you are coming from. But, I am providing you work (and compensating you for being a professional). Is that not a "win-win"?


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## In Demand (Mar 24, 2008)

fresh coat said:


> I agree and hear where you are coming from. But, I am providing you work (and compensating you for being a professional). Is that not a "win-win"?


I guess it would depend, I mean if you work with a guy who brings in just the bare essentials but always wants to borrow the extra stuff you are bringing in, and he is paid basically the same wage as you are then it would start to piss off most guys. 
Like I said I am not knocking anyone, if it works for you then it dont need fixed.


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

ModernStyle said:


> I guess it would depend, I mean if you work with a guy who brings in just the bare essentials but always wants to borrow the extra stuff you are bringing in, and he is paid basically the same wage as you are then it would start to piss off most guys.
> Like I said I am not knocking anyone, if it works for you then it dont need fixed.


 
Very Good Point! But, on the same token, if you are a bad ass painter (you definitely got the tools) - right?

I've got painters that are unbelievably awesome. I do believe they would get offended if I bought them their "tools of their trade".


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## johnisimpson (Oct 5, 2007)

I doubt any of my guys (only 3 of them) would be offended if I bought them some tools, no matter what their preference. 
My expectation is for basic hand tools that I consider necessary for the trade. Airless rig, ladders, drops, and power tools I provide. I've had a time or two when a worker has said he has a better type of tool for a particular situation and he brought it in the next day to help out with the job and yes, I noticed that and his pay reflects that level of involvement with the company. I provide all the things like caulk, sandpaper, rags, etc., cut I agree with those who mentioned that the painters should know to always have some of those items on hand (from what I've provided).


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

After I'm sure a new hire is a good fit for our company and will be sticking around, I buy him a complete kit. Its about $200.00 worth of brushes and hand tools. After that, as brushes need to be replaced, I contribute 50% to the replacement cost. 

I know my policy costs me more than some of the others posted here. But the way I look at it, I have complete control over the brush selection and when brushes need to be replaced. Quality brushes in good shape make me money!


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

I forgot to mention...once I know the guy is going to be here awhile I also supply a Garmin GPS. It pays for itself in no time. Right now I have 12 of them.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

aaron61 said:


> I forgot to mention...once I know the guy is going to be here awhile I also supply a Garmin GPS. It pays for itself in no time. Right now I have 12 of them.


I've thought of doing that so many times! I have one guy that can't find his way out of a paper bag...


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> I've thought of doing that so many times! I have one guy that can't find his way out of a paper bag...


Get him the paper bag model.:whistling2: Great idea Aaron.:thumbsup:


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## spraymonster (Dec 25, 2009)

i supply tools and material.i just beleive that to be my responsibilty.shirts are on me, also first pair of pants.
i know when i was coming up i had and brought my own tools and they we taken from jobs either by our guys or laborer another cotractor brought in.
in reality the money i made on side paid better than job so tools stayed home .cost me more to bring them to work.
I've also had great painters that i would send guy to pick him up and pay time to get other worker.things happen to people sometimes that are out of there control.and i have learned a guy may not have tools.that does not make him unprofesional.
I have had all my tools stolen from truck and had to start over.but that didn't make me loose my talent while i was tooless.
I can offer my opinion but I cannot judge. thanks all for listening


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## brihtar1170 (Dec 15, 2009)

My every employee has a tool that I bought him. When the tool wear they get a new one. I buy and all the material needed for the job. When I took another company to subcontractors, then they bring their tools to work.


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## finto65 (Jan 28, 2009)

i always believed you have to spend money to make money.i did,why should i have to supply tools?i supply all rigging,drops and paint.an employee will not respect your tools.more responsible if it is theirs to take care of imo


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## firepainter (Mar 21, 2010)

Any Painter With Much Expieriance At All Is Gonna Want His Own Tools I Believe


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## nypete0520 (Mar 19, 2010)

I like to set a guy up with the basics if he shows up with no tools at all. I'll give him a brush, roller handle, five in one, and a caulk gun. Then I tell him that he needs to keep them clean, or buy the next one's on his own. Good way to teach someone how to maintain their stuff.


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

AS an employer, I would expect to supply everything needed for the job/s. For some reason I find no ethical reason to expect an employee to show up with anything except his/her experience. Experience will be revealed within a day using the tools supplied by the employer.

It's good to know that my experience and tools will get me more "in the door" than not if I ever had to work for anyone else... but, I wouldn't expect an employer to turn me away due to "no" tools. Again, it's experience that is the necessity not what tools you come to work with...


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## VanDamme (Feb 13, 2010)

I do supply them with everything, even whites and work boots. Most of the journeymen have some of their own tools they prefer.....brushes, roller pole, etc.


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

VanDamme said:


> I do supply them with everything, even whites and work boots. Most of the journeymen have some of their own tools they prefer.....brushes, roller pole, etc.


That's cool. There will be those who have their own tools, but I find it my business to supply what needs there are for a job. After all, It's my service to the HO not the service of the employees to the HO. 

If I don't have what is required for an employee to complete a job then the job should not be completed or even started for that matter... Come with your tools, but I will have everything needed for the job... :thumbsup: The latter is the responsibility of the business, not the employee.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Interesting thoughts on this one.
> 
> If one is a experienced painter, they should have ther own tools. think about it. " I have 8 years experience, no I dont have tools "
> Handmasker$60.000
> ...





ewingpainting.net said:


> I remember when, i walked out side of a house we were painting. Laying in the dirt was a 2 1/2" purdy brush. Supplied by the company. That was the last time we supplied basic tools
> .
> However, i just gave a 2 1/2" purdy as a "job well done" bonus. I dont think i will ever see that laying in the dirt. I have also gave out mask machines, caulk guns, 6n1, ect.
> If i know a guy is just hurting for money and i think he is worth it. I will usually set him up with a few basics and feed him more as he proves himself.
> ...


I still stand by this


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## JHill (May 13, 2010)

Any painter worth hiring, will take care of the tools you provide. All we expect them to supply, are their boots, 1" flex knife, 5 n 1, and whites.


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## RPS (May 13, 2010)

I cant believe what some of you guys require. I also cant believe what some of you supply. Pants, boots? If I worked for someone I would show up with my tool box of hand tools, whites, workboots. Brushes can be figured into the job. They wearout and like aaron said they will use a worn out club coasing brush marks and maybe bad coverage. Spray rigs? Those are money makers for the employer. Having somone that can run one is a good thing. Brushes. Supply them and when they ask for a new one make them turn in the old one and if it was negleted make them replace it. I just seen this thread so my response is mainly from the top.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

After reading this thread, I can see why some of you are more profitable... Having your employees pay for half your equipment.:thumbup:

I never expect my help to supply anything. I guess it may be because when I was a helper, I wasn't expected to supply anything. That makes sense to me. Having help supply so much, its like they are subcontractors for you, without having to pay subcontractor costs. 

I even remember one of my first gigs starting on my own, I was subbing for my local paint store that ran a side painting business which their two core employees ended up leaving. I sorta took over. I had my own insurance, and did have my own tools for the most part. But whatever job I was going to go on, If I needed new equipment, I got it all together and put it on the counter and they paid for it. New brushes for oil, roller cages, buckets, drops. Didn't matter. 

I look at some of your lists and think it goes too far. I can see the merits of expecting help to have their own 5 in 1, and maybe a blade. Thats it. But if I were to hire on with a company today, I'd probably bring my own basic tools, and if I didn't like the company brushes and other equip, I'd probably bring my own just so I could do my best work. I'd think it would be rediculous to expect an employee to buy their own sandpaper, brushes, drop clothes? I don't understand this one. Any interior I do, I'll usually have 10 runners out and 3-4 9x12s. I would never expect help to supply this stuff. Come on. Its called cost of doing business. 

I know another company I subbed for, I'd just ride with one of the main guys. He had a van, and all the stuff in the back to do the job was supplied by the owner. Need more stuff? Get it at the shop before the day starts. I guess it comes down to, if they are quality painters with a quality ethic, if you supply them with what they need, they will take care of it. But they probably will want to bring some of their own stuff anyway.


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## RPS (May 13, 2010)

Hey ewing, Do you make them supply their own paint too? :lol:


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

Again, it is not the responsibility of the employee to show up with tools to get the job done. The only responsibility an employee should have is showing up with the experience he/she said they have...


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## RPS (May 13, 2010)

nothing wrong with a few hand tools. Like a carpenter having his own tool belt or electrician havin his own screwdriver and wire cutters or a drywaller havin his own knifes.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

RPS said:


> Hey ewing, Do you make them supply their own paint too? :lol:


Nope, I'm just running a business


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

I don't think how you run your business is wrong, nor do I think how I run mine is wrong. we all have our ways and have came to the way we handle our business through our own individual experience. If you reread my post it's really not asking much. I'm not trying to impress no one here. :thumbsup:


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## RPS (May 13, 2010)

ewingpainting.net said:


> I don't think how you run your business is wrong, nor do I think how I run mine is wrong. we all have our ways and have came to the way we handle our business through our own individual experience. If you reread my post it's really not asking much. I'm not trying to impress no one here. :thumbsup:


Just giving you a hard time. You joked at me in the other thread. im just havin fun. Whatever keeps you emplyee happy and put out quality work at a reasonable time 

Seriously though, Do you? lol


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

RPS said:


> nothing wrong with a few hand tools. Like a carpenter having his own tool belt or electrician havin his own screwdriver and wire cutters or a drywaller havin his own knifes.


Absolutely! Nothing wrong with showing up with tools, but to expect it, is totally different.


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## RPS (May 13, 2010)

I let them know in the interview and if they need a little time Im ok with that.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Do I what


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## RPS (May 13, 2010)

The paint. I was jokin.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

he he


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

For me it really does not matter what he has, as long as he brings donuts then he will be fine..

Pat


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## BC_Painter (Feb 14, 2010)

"Sorta-Pro" Gives you a bucket of random tools, caulk gun, a drop, cheap 2-4 pole, screwdriver. Just the most basic stuff. ( And either used stuff or very cheap, or both )

They hold a $150 deposit off of your first cheque

If they don't get it back they hold another $250 from your final cheque.

I brought my own stuff instead..........


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

seems lately we have been getting a chit load of retarded spam bots posting stupid stuff on this site. I dunno maybe it happens all the time and I'm just starting to notice it..

Pat


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> Again, it is not the responsibility of the employee to show up with tools to get the job done. The only responsibility an employee should have is showing up with the experience he/she said they have...


Sure, but an experienced painter (or any trades person) should have
a handful of personal tools to take care of and be proud of.
You know.. the tools of the trade, a small tool box worth.
Try being an electrician without a screwdriver,
A car mechanic without a wrench, even a professional barber.


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

I think an experienced painter is most likely going to have some tools, but to make it an expectation when hiring is not good "business" practice. Just say'n...

It seems there is a trade fable that has been passed down for generations as a prideful means to prove ones self. I'm not rolling with it... If I want a job done, then I'll provide the tools for it. I'm not against employees bringing tools, what I am in opposition of is the mentality that it would be required. That is just wrong.


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> I think an experienced painter is most likely going to have some tools, but to make it an expectation when hiring is not good "business" practice. Just say'n...
> 
> It seems there is a trade fable that has been passed down for generations as a prideful means to prove ones self. I'm not rolling with it... If I want a job done, then I'll provide the tools for it. I'm not against employees bringing tools, what I am in opposition of is the mentality that it would be required. That is just wrong.


The way I see it is that if a potential hire for a professional painting position doesn't have even the basic equipment then they're either not really a painter, they have some sort of problem which caused them to pawn off their tools, they're not really interested in the painting trade, or they're certainly not professional. 

If you're just hiring a helper, then I wouln't expect them to have tools - maybe just the absolute bare-bones minimum, if that. And i'd be happy to supply all necessary equip. 

But if you're hiring someone who's been painting for a few years, then they should definitely have their own set of painting tools. I had a full set of tools 2 weeks after starting in this trade - by 1 year there really is no excuse for not having them. Unless it's due to one of the reasons I mentioned above.


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

It seems that the idea of having tools is only a point of measurement. So the masses here are saying that if your a pro, then you WILL have tools and they are expected. If your not a pro then it will be known by what tools you bring with you or not... I can understand that logic, but the pro with tools or not, will show it in his/her skills of painting, not by what he/she brings to work for tools. I'm in a more literal mindset about it...  Basically, a pro should not be measured by what tools are brought to work or the lack of, but the pro should be measured by their skills. 

I do see in most cases where a painter will most likely have tools and it can be used as a point of observation to determine a few things in the hiring process, but I don't find it as an absolute.


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

I worked a guy a couple weeks ago and was surprised to see he came with some tools. (masker, brush, bucket hook, wizz, sprayer! (identical to mine... :blink:... etc..) But I didn't take it in consideration as a means to validate him as a professional. What validated his ability to paint and do a good job was exactly that, watching him work, seeing his skills. I'm thankful he has those tools, but they were not required for my hiring process.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Jason

I find that handtools (5-1, mud knives, brushes, blades, dustbrushes, putty knives, combs, screwdrivers, caulk gun, etc) are best for each guy to have and be responsible for himself. I used to have all this stuff as community tools for crews and got sick of guys not maintaining them properly. Better painters will want to have and maintain their own brushes generally, I find. It doesnt really matter to me if I supply them initially or if they already have their own, as long as they are being maintained and kept track of properly. It is nice if each guy has his own set up with the basics, so when you send him to a job alone, he has the basic tools to work with. 

I dont expect (or want) them to sprayers, ladders, sanders, drills, vacuum cleaners, pressure washers, extensions, standoffs or any of the more equipment based tools. I like to take responsibility for the larger stuff because much of it points back to safety and quality of finished product. 

I would just ask them if they have handtools of their own that they prefer to use and keep track of, and supply them the rest of what they will need to work efficiently for you. Generally, a painter can be set up with handtools for about $100 and basic assortment of brushes for another $100. I would recommend this because it creates accountability for tools and pride in them.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Well said VP


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## JHill (May 13, 2010)

Employees, that supply their own tools, in my opinion, are subs. Why, should it cost the employees money, to do our work. If they want to use their tools, fine, but to have to supply tools, for someone elses work, just does'nt make sense to me.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Most painting contractors I've known could care less about what type of tools you own during the interview and hiring process. 

A strong back, all four limbs, and the willingness to follow and execute orders, are the only real pertinent "tools" most contractors demand for a new hire. Whether they be seasoned or not. IMO


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

The way I see it is this way:
working for us is the best job a painter(employee) can have.
Good money, job security, now great benefits
and an out of this world bonus that works amazing.
I know some of that is almost unheard of in our industry. 
There is a pool of hundreds of applicants that want this job. 
Who we will give this opportunity to, we will make a big commitment to. 
In return, we want commitment from them. 
$70 worth of stinky tools is not much to ask. (we can buy it for them if needed). 
It is the commitment to the trade and the commitment to their career I am after.
So this is a sought after position... to be even considered
for an interview, certain things are required.
If not available, they don't have to work here.

Either way no big deal but
Who is behind the campaign to save the Tool Deprived Painters anyway?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I don't think it has to do with being deprived. It's a matter of being consistent with the company's system. Kind of like the military, you don't join up with your own rifle and flak jacket. Unless of course, you're joining an organization that's budget deficient. That's when I look elsewhere.


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

CApainter said:


> I don't think it has to do with being deprived. It's a matter of being consistent with the company's system. Kind of like the military, you don't join up with your own rifle and flak jacket. Unless of course, you're joining an organization that's budget deficient. That's when I look elsewhere.


That's the thing, they are not looking elsewhere.
You see something wrong with a painter owning couple of putty knives and a .... paintbrush?

Budget deficient?
4 of them last week made an additional bonus of over $350.00 each 
and averaged an hourly of over $35.00 (as wages not subs).

I suppose couple of putty knives, a dust brush and a paint brush a month is better?

There is nothing wrong with what we do.
Nothing wrong with how you want to do your thing either.


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## Rob (Aug 9, 2009)

Whenever I worked as a painter, I had my own hand tools.
I also had sprayers, ladders, drops, truck, phone, etc. If I used those, I expected to be paid for it.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

What I tell my painters is this:

Take a look around at the carpenters, plumbers, electricians, etc. Look at their tools and toolbelts. Painters can invest a couple of bucks in their personal tools of the trades as well if they want to be treated as professionals.


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

I think Wing stated it best. There is no right or wrong way. Whatever works best for your company's model. 

We definitely require a pretty extensive list of tools that potential employees must own. If they don't - it doesn't mean we won't hire but it is a flag for us. 

Understand - we only hire (as full time employees) pros that can handle the job from start to finish. If they don't have the tools then that is a big question mark for us. 

Again - I am not saying one way is better then the other just that this is how we choose to run our biz.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

KLaw said:


> I think Wing stated it best. There is no right or wrong way. Whatever works best for your company's model.
> 
> We definitely require a pretty extensive list of tools that potential employees must own. If they don't - it doesn't mean we won't hire but it is a flag for us.
> 
> ...


Why should I invest in tools for your company when there is the possibility that you won't work out for me?


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

CApainter said:


> Why should I invest in tools for your company when there is the possibility that you won't work out for me?


 
Versus the possibility it will work out for US. Risk / reward?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

CApainter said:


> Why should I invest in tools for your company when there is the possibility that you won't work out for me?


I can see an employee candidate looking at a "new" opportunity that way. By new, I would probably mean a company that isnt established for at least 5 years. If you do your due diligence and determine the opportunity to be solid, I bet you show up with a toolbox full of handtools!


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

CApainter said:


> Why should I invest in tools for your company when there is the possibility that you won't work out for me?


I still don't understand.

This is the job, these are the requirements.

You want it, apply :thumbsup:
You don't want it... don't apply :thumbsup:

I think this is the point exactly.
Throughout this hiring process you would have just proved why you 
would not be a candidate.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

KLaw said:


> Versus the possibility it will work out for US. Risk / reward?


I'd be more of a risk considering you've raised the red flag by demanding I buy tools for use on your projects without compensation other then a base wage.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I'd be concerned before long, you would also have me buying tape, buckets and drop cloths for your projects.


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

CApainter said:


> I'd be more of a risk considering you've raised the red flag by demanding I buy tools for use on your projects without compensation other then a base wage.


And by all means that would certainly be your rights. In other words, if the job requirements don't fit your "rights" then it would not be a good fit. Walk away. We'd move on to the next potential employee and you'd move on to the next potential employer. No hard feelings.


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## oldpaintdoc (Apr 11, 2010)

CApainter said:


> I'd be more of a risk considering you've raised the red flag by demanding I buy tools for use on your projects without compensation other then a base wage.


If you do not already have the tools, then you are not a painter anyway.
Why would you be looking for a painting job?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

ragebhardt said:


> If you do not already have the tools, then you are not a painter anyway.
> Why would you be looking for a painting job?


Wouldnt that be like saying: "if you arent an employer with multiple crews, trucks, shops, booked 18 months out, then you arent an employer anyways?" Because we are hiring does not make us Jesus.


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

vermontpainter said:


> Wouldnt that be like saying: "if you arent an employer with multiple crews, trucks, shops, booked 18 months out, then you arent an employer anyways?" Because we are hiring does not make us Jesus.


:no::no::no:


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

KLaw said:


> And by all means that would certainly be your rights. In other words, if the job requirements don't fit your "rights" then it would not be a good fit. Walk away. We'd move on to the next potential employee and you'd move on to the next potential employer. No hard feelings.


On the other hand, had you not made those demands of me, and instead allowed me to learn your program, within your probationary period, and without conditions, I may very wll have turned out to be a loyal and commited asset to you and your business. Instead, I am now working for your competitor with great success.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

KLaw said:


> :no::no::no:


I thought you might feel that way.


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

CApainter said:


> On the other hand, had you not made those demands of me, and instead allowed me to learn your program, within your probationary period, and without conditions, I may very wll have turned out to be a loyal and commited asset to you and your business. Instead, I am now working for your competitor with great success.


Demands? No - just job requirements. Like I said earlier, different biz models. Whatever works for you. Valid points on your end.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

My company, my project, my overhead, my paint, my employees, my team, my tools.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

ragebhardt said:


> If you do not already have the tools, then you are not a painter anyway.
> Why would you be looking for a painting job?


Are you aware that certain tools are not allowed in explosive environments. For instance, non ferrous scrapers, (copper as I remember) were the only scrapers allowed. Have you priced those things lately.

The point is, the tools a so called professional may dump on your interview table may be a lot of useless junk.


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

As posted by NEPS: "My company, my project, my overhead, my paint, my employees, my team, my tools."

Pretty much - game / set / match. You don't like it - move on. It really is that simple. JMO.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

KLaw said:


> As posted by NEPS: "My company, my project, my overhead, my paint, my employees, my team, my tools."
> 
> Pretty much - game / set / match. You don't like it - move on. It really is that simple. JMO.


Of course the credibility of the employer making this type of statement would have to be carefully considered by the employment candidate. This would likely be reflected in other ways during the interview process, one would think.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

KLaw said:


> As posted by NEPS: "My company, my project, my overhead, my paint, my employees, my team, my tools."
> 
> Pretty much - game / set / match. You don't like it - move on. It really is that simple. JMO.


Where in there did he say "their tools"?:blink:


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Unless you thought it read "my rules".


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

CApainter said:


> Where in there did he say "their tools"?:blink:


You have to keep in mind that you are actually reading and processing the posts in a logical and lucid way. :thumbup:


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

CApainter said:


> Unless you thought it read "my rules".


This is not "Hooked on Phonics", this is paint contracting 101.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Why did you thank NEPS KLaw?


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> Of course the credibility of the employer making this type of statement would have to be carefully considered by the employment candidate. This would likely be reflected in other ways during the interview process, one would think.


If I dont ask a employee if he owns a $3 putty knife, a $12 brush and a $2 pot hook then he should assume that my company is not a professional outfit?


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

I have always viewed tools like this:

Subs - must have their own tools.

Employees - uses company tools. 

Each for their obvious reasons of which is "paying" for the tools in the cost of the project.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> I have always viewed tools like this:
> 
> Subs - must have their own tools.
> 
> ...


And frankly, as you well know, a professional will always have the tools that work best for them as a supplement to the company's.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

KLaw said:


> As posted by NEPS: "My company, my project, my overhead, my paint, my employees, my team, my tools."
> 
> Pretty much - game / set / match. You don't like it - move on. It really is that simple. JMO.


I've never read such a passionate agreement in all my PT hours. This is a commitment of kinship I've never seen. I'm getting all emotional


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

I had no idea this was such a lively topic. 

As I basically said before A new hire with no experience I expect him to have nothing. 

An experienced hire I would ask if he had the basics and then would determine if he was the right fit whether he had basic tools or not. 

I think a painter that has been painting for many years would have some of the basics, I bought the basics when I was coming up and working for others out of pride and the desire not to share with others. I know not everyone thinks the same but most painters I know that work for others have their own brushes, caulking gun, utility knife. 

CApainter: I know you work for others but do you own your own brushes and hand tools? I am not asking to put you down whether you do not i am just curious. I was taught in a liberal environment and was encouraged to take on smaller side jobs under the company umbrella and so I felt like needed my own stuff.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

CApainter said:


> And frankly, as you well know, a professional will always have the tools that work best for them as a supplement to the company's.


 
Yes, but when asked by a new employee what tools they need to bring I tell them to leave it in the car. I'm not paying a guy to polish his putty knife after patching a wall nor am I paying him to soak his brush in fabric softener. We burn through alot of work and we burn through tools quickly. I am also not paying for replacements. 

99% of the time they have the supplies needed at the site if it is in one of my vans, trailers or jobox's.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> Yes, but when asked by a new employee what tools they need to bring I tell them to leave it in the car. I'm not paying a guy to polish his putty knife after patching a wall nor am I paying him to soak his brush in fabric softener. We burn through alot of work and we burn through tools quickly. I am also not paying for replacements.
> 
> 99% of the time they have the supplies needed at the site if it is in one of my vans, trailers or jobox's.


I think I want a job with N.E.P.S, seems like a solid company.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> Yes, but when asked by a new employee what tools they need to bring I tell them to leave it in the car. I'm not paying a guy to polish his putty knife after patching a wall nor am I paying him to soak his brush in fabric softener. We burn through alot of work and we burn through tools quickly. I am also not paying for replacements.
> 
> 99% of the time they have the supplies needed at the site if it is in one of my vans, trailers or jobox's.


So true! I knew this one guy that palm sanded his brush because he was OCD about paint on the handle.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> If I dont ask a employee if he owns a $3 putty knife, a $12 brush and a $2 pot hook then he should assume that my company is not a professional outfit?


No. I am saying that if an employee is interviewing with you and Klaw, and he asks the right questions, he should be able to determine which company is more credible.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Workaholic said:


> I think I want a job with NEPS, seems like a solid company.


I might have to make you wear a Patriots hat as part of the company uniform!:thumbup:


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> No. I am saying that if an employee is interviewing with you and Klaw, and he asks the right questions, he should be able to determine which company is more credible.


Ah ....I misinterpreted.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> I might have to make you wear a Patriots hat as pat of the company uniform!:thumbup:


lol Alabama has no pro teams so if the packet looked right it might be doable.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> Ah ....I misinterpreted.


I dont mean to be rude, but if I decide to become a painter for a paint company and I interview with the the two companies mentioned above, and they both say:

"Heres the deal, my way or highway, game set match..."

I would be able to figure out which one has been backing it up in his "biz model" and which is just talking the talk of a proud biz owner.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

CApainter said:


> So true! I knew this one guy that palm sanded his brush because he was OCD about paint on the handle.


Was a 2" angle and did he wear a floppy orange hat?:jester:


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Workaholic said:


> I had no idea this was such a lively topic.
> 
> As I basically said before A new hire with no experience I expect him to have nothing.
> 
> ...


My employer provides me with everything I need, and everything that's required. This includes all PPE. But to be fair, that is because they're very large, with an equaly sized budget.

But in the past I not only purchased my own sprayguns as an employee, but also used my own truck, which got hammered in the process. As we all know, being a professional means making a commitment to the overall goal, whether you're the employee, or the employer. However, it is insulting to question ones integrity, or professionalism because you don't produce a shiny new five in one, or masking machine at the interview.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

CApainter said:


> My employer provides me with everything I need, and everything that's required. This includes all PPE. But to be fair, that is because they're very large, with an equaly sized budget.
> 
> But in the past I not only purchased my own sprayguns as an employee, but also used my own truck, which got hammered in the process. As we all know, being a professional means making a commitment to the overall goal, whether you're the employee, or the employer. It is insulting to question ones integrity, or professionalism because you don't produce a shiny new five in one, or masking machine.


I kind of thought it was like that. I never worked for anyone large enough to give me a company vehicle. I wish I had. I worked for a smaller outfit and was expected to have nothing but I showed the incentive to have my own stuff and after a few years in had most everything but extension ladders and drops.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

CApainter said:


> Why should I invest in tools for your company when there is the possibility that you won't work out for me?


In my early 20's I worked for this well known high end repaint outfit. On my 1st day I showed up with my tools just like I always did. After I worked a few days I got to know the crew a bit better. I started feeling the my coworkers out. Trying to get feed back on what the main foreman thought of me. One coworker immediately said, "he asked if I had tools" he replied that I had more blades than any of them. 
.
The way I looked at it was any tool I bought whether it be a putty knife or a sprayer. It was a investment in MY future not a company. Even though I worked for them it made me money. I invested in myself not that company and it paid off. :thumbsup:


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

CApainter said:


> I'd be concerned before long, you would also have me buying tape, buckets and drop cloths for your projects.


As a employer if you said that to me, you'd be looking for a job the next day. I'd be concerned you would be a union worker trying to rally my crew's up. Then I'd give the employee that was closest to you some brand new tools. Just to show you I wasn't that cheap. You'd lose. California state law say's I can fire you for ANY reason as long as it's not one of the big 3. 
.
As a employer interviewing an applicant. I'd wonder why you we're not concerned about getting a job rather than if I was going to make you pay for what you stated. It's asinining, I would never make a employee pay for sundries.


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## BC_Painter (Feb 14, 2010)

Workaholic said:


> I kind of thought it was like that. I never worked for anyone large enough to give me a company vehicle. I wish I had. I worked for a smaller outfit and was expected to have nothing but I showed the incentive to have my own stuff and after a few years in had most everything but extension ladders and drops.



I worked for someone "Large" enough to provide me a company truck.

Biggest career mistake I ever made :whistling2:


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

I worked for a employer that supplied a work truck as well as 6 other's. I always got the one the boss had when he got the new one. The newest truck was 3 months old. And I instilled the tool rule. If they couldn't cut a straight line with what ever brush they had. That reflected on their craftsmanship and they didn't usually have a job on the 2nd or 3rd week. :thumbsup:
.
And it will be the same with my company. You don't like, go work for NEPs for all I care. :thumbup:
.
.
.
Not that it would be bad to work for NEPs. I'd work for him. I think I seen his soft side in this thread. :lol:


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

And working for that employer, was the best career choice I ever made. It is one of the reason for my survival in our current economy and success of my company now. :thumbsup:
As well as my employee's. 
Gabe


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

ewingpainting.net said:


> In my early 20's I worked for this well known high end repaint outfit. On my 1st day I showed up with my tools just like I always did. After I worked a few days I got to know the crew a bit better. I started feeling the my coworkers out. Trying to get feed back on what the main foreman thought of me. One coworker immediately said, "he asked if I had tools" he replied that I had more blades than any of them.
> .
> The way I looked at it was any tool I bought whether it be a putty knife or a sprayer. It was a investment in MY future not a company. Even though I worked for them it made me money. I invested in myself not that company and it paid off. :thumbsup:


Personally, I always liked to see employees with their own basic handtools and if they took care of them. If they did I had no problem in supplying them with replacements or other tools. (I was known for being "generous" in this aspect.) Any specialty tools and ladders I would supply, mainly due to insurance and liability issues.

Brushes were always a telling indicator also. I didnt mind supplying them, but they darn well better take care of them. Exterior repaints in the summer were tough on brushes and the guys usually kept a 5 with soapy water available to toss the "gunked" brushes in as the day progressed. Same with covers.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

I guess, if my help showed up with a spray rig to work on one of my jobs, I'd be concerned. 

Either, something isn't quite right with him/her, or my equipment is crap and not maintained to function properly. Anyone who would bring their own sprayer to make someone else money has a screw loose somewhere. Either that, or I'm paying them too much. 

There is something to be said about a guy/gal, that has the basic tools at the ready, on the job. You can tell they know whats going on, and is reassuring.


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## bwallace10327 (May 28, 2010)

That is exactly how I feel. If the tool makes ME money and MY life easier its well worth having around. To a certain extent of course, IE sprayers, caulk, ect. should be supplied.


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

Ewing, in your OP you stated that if the employee had his own tools, he would have been paid more. 

I have a question; if you (those reading this post) know your employee has a sprayer, and you find it beneficial to have him/her bring it so that the project can progress at a faster pace, would you pay the employee more for the use of their sprayer? If you would, would you pay them more by the hour or would you pay them a one time use fee?


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Ewing, in your OP you stated that if the employee had his own tools, he would have been paid more.
> 
> I have a question; if you (those reading this post) know your employee has a sprayer, and you find it beneficial to have him/her bring it so that the project can progress at a faster pace, would you pay the employee more for the use of their sprayer? If you would, would you pay them more by the hour or would you pay them a one time use fee?


I have used a employee's sprayer on one of my jobs. I payed his salary plus I paid him for the rental of his sprayer. It was due to the distance of the job and couldn't find the time to get him a sprayer. But to clarify I don't like to use my employee's sprayer. I don't even like them on my jobs. If I'm finding I'm losing time due to not having enough sprayer's, I'd have a new one the following day, if not that day. 
Paying a employee more just because he has a rig doesn't fit well with me. What if he sucks at spraying? I will pay a employee more if he is more advanced in his painting skills such as spraying, not because he or she owns a sprayer.


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

My point was not so much about "owning" a sprayer and justifying that for more pay.

My question was in regards to actually using an employees sprayer. The scenario is this: The employee is good and sprays well. He owns a sprayer. You realize you could speed up the process of a job with the use of the second sprayer (employees sprayer). Do you reimburse the employee for the use of it or not?

If you do reimburse for the use of the sprayer, what is a reasonable reimbursement?


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

What would you do if the employee's rig broke down while he/she was spraying for you?


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

RCP said:


> What would you do if the employee's rig broke down while he/she was spraying for you?


I would get it fixed.

but....

At this moment I am not concerned about that.


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## BC_Painter (Feb 14, 2010)

I would imagine that most employers that run rigs have better systems and standards set up, but the last employer I worked for, I hated using his sprayers, they were so beaten up and covered in  and you never knew how clean the lines were or if there are any filters, or even if the gun sprays correctly.

I would often try to just keep a sprayer in my truck so that I could get the thing working well and KEEP it that way. However since sprayers are a top commodity I often lost it and got one kept in stupid shape back later.

I can't count how many times I've had to go to the shop to pick up the sprayer, THEN go to the paint store to get whatever it's missing ( which according to the new "payrates" came out of my pay ) and then have the thing not prime anyways.

One gun had a filter so badly clogged and ignored it was squished to half it's length from the pressure. 

I am an advocate for getting paid a bit more since I have my OWN sprayer and know how to use it. IF this is the case keep me liable for repairs as well, since I'm getting paid the extra to maintain and use my own machine. :thumbsup:


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

Apparently you guys want to skirt around the question...


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## BC_Painter (Feb 14, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Apparently you guys want to skirt around the question...


It depends how much the sprayer is used, compare it to a reasonable rental in your area.

$100/day here, I'd be more than happy with 50


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> Apparently you guys want to skirt around the question...


Jason 

I cant imagine not having enough sprayers (or pressure washers, or vacuum cleaners or bakers staging or trucks or ladders or sanders) to accomodate any amount of jobs that we have going on, and if needed I would provide more. If an employee has a sprayer, he can leave it at home.


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

Is it normal practice to make reimbursement for the use of an employees sprayer? 

Obviously, if it was something I needed to push production and rental was $50 a day, then the purchase of my own would be in order...

But if I used an employees sprayer, lets say, 6 times a year (approx $300) then it would catch up to me in 3 years time... 

I think in the long run, having 2 sprayers of my own will be the more logical situation. 

But in the meantime, I am more curious about reimbursement for the use of an employees sprayer and if that was normal.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Not normal. If you dont have the equipment to do the job, dont estimate and sell it. Or buy the equipment.


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## BC_Painter (Feb 14, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Is it normal practice to make reimbursement for the use of an employees sprayer?
> 
> Obviously, if it was something I needed to push production and rental was $50 a day, then the purchase of my own would be in order...
> 
> ...



To be honest, my old boss who I ranted and raved was a cheap POS DID reimburse me if I happened to use my sprayer when none of his were available. Sometimes I'd get 50 bucks for a days use, other rimes I got a couple new tips to keep. Since he'd otherwise have to rent one he still saves money. If I were you I'd just pick up a quality used sprayer and not have to worry about it.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

I havent bought an airless in a few years but arent we talking about like an $800 purchase for a brand new 440 or 390?


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> Not normal. If you dont have the equipment to do the job, dont estimate and sell it. Or buy the equipment.


Again, that is not the point.

This isn't about not having the equipment..


This is about having access to more equipment (employees sprayer) that you didn't already have.

The scenario I gave in a previous post isn't all that hard to figure out.


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

If you had to use their stuff I think a $35/day allowance would be acceptable.


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

THE EMPLOYEE SPRAYER IS IN ADDITION TO THE TOOLS ALREADY NEEDED FOR THE JOB!

Does that make sense? ... lol..


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

KLaw said:


> If you had to use their stuff I think a $35/day allowance would be acceptable.


Ok, that's cool.

It's not a situation where it HAS to be used, but more about speeding up production because it can be accessible.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

KLaw said:


> If you had to use their stuff I think a $35/day allowance would be acceptable.


As your employee, I say $35.00 is unacceptable. $100.00 a day, or go buy your own.


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

Yes - I think. You are saying you (your company) has the appropriate tools to do the work as quoted. However, one of your painters can supplement that and increase the productivity by the use of their own personal equipment. How do you reimburse them for that. Right? Is that your point?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Plus I don't want my airless tied up on your jobs, and not MY side jobs.


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

I think the rental rate that the paint store advertises is sufficient. What ever the rate is for a day or for half a day.... 

I'll ask my SW store and see what their rates are and go that route.

Thanks guys. :thumbsup:


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

KLaw said:


> Yes - I think. You are saying you (your company) has the appropriate tools to do the work as quoted. However, one of your painters can supplement that and increase the productivity by the use of their own personal equipment. How do you reimburse them for that. Right? Is that your point?



yes :thumbsup:


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> I think the rental rate that the paint store advertises is sufficient. What ever the rate is for a day or for half a day....
> 
> I'll ask my SW store and see what their rates are and go that route.
> 
> Thanks guys. :thumbsup:


Ask s/w - then ask the guy that is willing to use their own equipment. He / she may not think it is that big of a deal. You may be able to come somewhere in the middle making you more profitable and the employee very happy that they even got compensated.


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

CApainter said:


> As your employee, I say $35.00 is unacceptable. $100.00 a day, or go buy your own.


LMAO. $100 / day. I don't think so. Find somebody else to work for and take your side jobs with you.:laughing::laughing:


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## BC_Painter (Feb 14, 2010)

KLaw said:


> Ask s/w - then ask the guy that is willing to use their own equipment. He / she may not think it is that big of a deal. You may be able to come somewhere in the middle making you more profitable and the employee very happy that they even got compensated.


Only problem is that you need to also figure out who will pay for maintenance. When you are giving your employee a lot less than it's actually worth to have the sprayer around, then he pays for a repair out of pocket he may realize that the price of the repair is making the use of the sprayer on your jobsites not necessarily worth it.

I would also make sure that the employee is the ONLY one using his sprayer, I could see someone getting upset if a repair was needed because nother employee made a stupid mistake, which happens, but can lead to tension.

My advice, reimburse him appropriately, make sure he's the one using the sprayer, and then it won't e a problem when it DOES need a repair for him to cover it himself without being upset about it.


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

KLaw said:


> Ask s/w - then ask the guy that is willing to use their own equipment. He / she may not think it is that big of a deal. You may be able to come somewhere in the middle making you more profitable and the employee very happy that they even got compensated.


I'll have to pry it out of him.... he wouldn't tell me what he thought was fair and I didn't know what would be a fair price to offer... His friend instigated the issue and I think he may not have said anything and eventually built up animosity against me for something I was unaware of... Good thing it's in the open now....

It's the working with employees thing that I am learning.........


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

BC_Painter said:


> Only problem is that you need to also figure out who will pay for maintenance. When you are giving your employee a lot less than it's actually worth to have the sprayer around, then he pays for a repair out of pocket he may realize that the price of the repair is making the use of the sprayer on your jobsites not necessarily worth it.
> 
> I would also make sure that the employee is the ONLY one using his sprayer, I could see someone getting upset if a repair was needed because nother employee made a stupid mistake, which happens, but can lead to tension.
> 
> My advice, reimburse him appropriately, make sure he's the one using the sprayer, and then it won't e a problem when it DOES need a repair for him to cover it himself without being upset about it.


I agree 100%. Take care of the repairs (within reason) and even the preventative maintenance. Minimal costs but it sends a strong thank you for them helping out.


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

KLaw said:


> I agree 100%. Take care of the repairs (within reason) and even the preventative maintenance. Minimal costs but it sends a strong thank you for them helping out.


I agree


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> I'll have to pry it out of him.... he wouldn't tell me what he thought was fair and I didn't know what would be a fair price to offer... His friend instigated the issue and I think he may not have said anything and eventually built up animosity against me for something I was unaware of... Good thing it's in the open now....
> 
> It's the working with employees thing that I am learning.........


Sounds like an interesting situation. You gave me some sound advice not to long ago about dealing with a potentially frisky client. Treat your employee the same way.

IOW, let him know how *appreciative* you are and you want to make it win / win for the both of you.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> My question was in regards to actually using an employees sprayer. The scenario is this: The employee is good and sprays well. He owns a sprayer. You realize you could speed up the process of a job with the use of the second sprayer (employees sprayer). Do you reimburse the employee for the use of it or not?
> 
> If you do reimburse for the use of the sprayer, what is a reasonable reimbursement?


Jason, no skirting around the question. I did answer that vvvvv



ewingpainting.net said:


> If I'm finding I'm losing time due to not having enough sprayer's, I'd have a new one the following day, if not that day.


I wouldn't, I'd hate to use a employee's rig. Cause now Mr. Employee has you by the balls. At least until the job is finished or you don't need the rig any more.
. 
IF I did I would give him what a rental unit would cost. About 60 bucks a day and I would also feel responsible if the rig broke down, just as the equipment rental yard would put the responsibility on you to reimburse, if it were to brake down. Like Scott said you should have the equipment that you would need to complete the job you bid on. If you don't then you should be thinking of investing rather than using your employees equipment. That rig you "rented" through a salary or what ever, would cost you big. You'd be able to buy at least 2 rigs for what your pay your employee for his in a year. That is short term thinking. Look to the future! Always!


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Jason, no skirting around the question. I did answer that vvvvv
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I don't think you are understanding his question (or maybe I'm not). To me, he does not NEED their equipment but they (employee) is more then willing to go the "extra mile".


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Not being rude here
.


[email protected] said:


> I'll have to pry it out of him.... he wouldn't tell me what he thought was fair and I didn't know what would be a fair price to offer... His friend instigated the issue and I think he may not have said anything and eventually built up animosity against me for something I was unaware of... Good thing it's in the open now....
> 
> It's the working with employees thing that I am learning.........


.
The perfect reason why one should not rent their employees equipment. Like I said Mr. Employee, got you by the balls. It will never be enough. You got a employee playing you.


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Not being rude here
> .
> 
> .
> The perfect reason why one should not rent their employees equipment. Like I said Mr. Employee, got you by the balls. It will never be enough. You got a employee playing you.


Wing - You bring up a good point. But, the employee jerking his chain is not the one in question (I don't think). Sounds like a fellow employee tryin to stir up sh!t - if I read it correctly.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

KLaw said:


> I don't think you are understanding his question (or maybe I'm not). To me, he does not NEED their equipment but they (employee) is more then willing to go the "extra mile".


The extra mile sounds like kissing azz to me. For me going the extra mile would be doubling ones performance. Or workind overtime or a sat or sun to get er done.


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

ewingpainting.net said:


> The extra mile sounds like kissing azz to me. For me going the extra mile would be doubling ones performance. Or workind overtime or a sat or sun to get er done.


Or bringing you own equipment to help out the company.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

KLaw said:


> Wing - You bring up a good point. But, the employee jerking his chain is not the one in question (I don't think). Sounds like a fellow employee tryin to stir up sh!t - if I read it correctly.


I think your right 
A bad seed is what I call it. They ruin the good in the crew, bringing everyone to their level. We see it here at PT al the time. :yes:


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## BC_Painter (Feb 14, 2010)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Not being rude here
> .
> 
> .
> The perfect reason why one should not rent their employees equipment. Like I said Mr. Employee, got you by the balls. It will never be enough. You got a employee playing you.


Way I see it, if you'd be better off renting an extra sprayer for a job, I'd personally rather have mine get rented, and be able to use my own sprayer, than get some crappy beat up rental that doesn't work well, makes my life easier, and I make a few bucks off of my own sprayer.

If this is the case I don't see why an employee and employer can't strike up a deal once in a blue moon like this as long as everything is out in the open. Rental company doesn't have you "by the balls" when you rent from them, so worst case scenario you kick the guy off the site and go rent another one. Doesn't seem to be necessary to have to work around it though.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

I get and respect what you are saying. I just wouldn't go that route. if I only rented a rig 6 times. I'd be thinking that money is lost now. And also the potential of damaging a good employee and relationship. It's about the long term for me. IMHO


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## BC_Painter (Feb 14, 2010)

ewingpainting.net said:


> I get and respect what you are saying. I just would go that route. if I only rented a rig 6 times. I'd be thinking that money is lost now. And also the potentialy damaging a good employee. It's about the long term for me. IMHO


I agree with that, I hate renting sprayers PERIOD for that very reason.

But rentals have their place and I didn't mind making money off of my sprayer.

I highly doubt I'd rent one as well unless it was a one time special conditions type job, and I'd never see the money back from buying another sprayer.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Yep! And most suppliers will not charge you for a rental, if your using their paint. I've got a loaner many times from my Vista paint and SW. Due to a brake down or just short a rig. That was a few years ago. Don't have the work load I use to have.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> I have a question; if you (those reading this post) know your employee has a sprayer, and you find it beneficial to have him/her bring it so that the project can progress at a faster pace, would you pay the employee more for the use of their sprayer? If you would, would you pay them more by the hour or would you pay them a one time use fee?


I would advise against this scenario all the way around. The only way it would sound plausible to me at all would be if your rig broke down and his just happened to be available to use to finish up that job. 
I have multiple spray rigs and I would not expect a employee to provide one, it muddies the waters on the employee employer line. The employee then might to start to look at the relationship in the wrong light and start to wonder why it is not a partnership. His tools and your job kind of thing. Granted that is a prolonged example but it just seems easier to supply a second airless for the company to keep it all the way it should be.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

Are there really that many employees out there that really own a real sprayer? I'm not talking about those cheap Campbell Hausfeld ones.

Pat


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## alpinecrick (May 11, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> Is it normal practice to make reimbursement for the use of an employees sprayer?


 
Yes.

You could give give him $50-100 extra, depending how much he sprays that day. Or increase his wage that day by 50%

Airlesses ain't cheap to buy or maintain, and if you're in the position where an extra sprayer is handy, then having an employee with an airless that can be "rented" and delivered to the job with the operator attached can be a good thing.



Off topic, but.......If you have the know-how to repair airlesses, there are lots of abused/non-running airlesses out there cheap--like a tiny fraction of new price. 

I've stopped buying new airlesses. In the past 4 years, I've bought three airlesses that at current new prices would cost ~$7K-8k total. I have about $2k into the three of them.


Casey


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Workaholic said:


> I would advise against this scenario all the way around. The only way it would sound plausible to me at all would be if your rig broke down and his just happened to be available to use to finish up that job.
> I have multiple spray rigs and I would not expect a employee to provide one, it muddies the waters on the employee employer line. The employee then might to start to look at the relationship in the wrong light and start to wonder why it is not a partnership. His tools and your job kind of thing. Granted that is a prolonged example but it just seems easier to supply a second airless for the company to keep it all the way it should be.


Well said


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## BC_Painter (Feb 14, 2010)

PatsPainting said:


> Are there really that many employees out there that really own a real sprayer? I'm not talking about those cheap Campbell Hausfeld ones.
> 
> Pat


I have 2 sprayers and a lemmer pressure pot, I used that on a job cause my boss didn't have the right equipment for it :whistling2:

I'm now self employed ( used to have a business in my old city ) But I was an employee with real equipment


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## Woody (Jan 7, 2010)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Yep! And most suppliers will not charge you for a rental, if your using their paint. I've got a loaner many times from my Vista paint and SW. Due to a brake down or just short a rig. That was a few years ago. Don't have the work load I use to have.


Your doing it right.... Every post "Is RIGHT ON"




Stay Frosty


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

BC_Painter said:


> I have 2 sprayers and a lemmer pressure pot, I used that on a job cause my boss didn't have the right equipment for it :whistling2:
> 
> I'm now self employed ( used to have a business in my old city ) But I was an employee with real equipment


That's a rare situation, If I had a guy that had your equipment, I know it would be just temporary. You would eventually start doing your own work. If it was not temporary then I would be a little concerned and try to find out the guys old boss out and see if he is missing one.

Pat


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

PatsPainting said:


> Are there really that many employees out there that really own a real sprayer? I'm not talking about those cheap Campbell Hausfeld ones.
> 
> Pat


And if they have a sprayer, what are they working for you then? Are you the side job?


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## BC_Painter (Feb 14, 2010)

PatsPainting said:


> That's a rare situation, If I had a guy that had your equipment, I know it would be just temporary. You would eventually start doing your own work. If it was not temporary then I would be a little concerned and try to find out the guys old boss out and see if he is missing one.
> 
> Pat



Well considering I'm self employed right now and had my own business in Calgary, you may have point :whistling2:


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

ewingpainting.net said:


> And if they have a sprayer, what are they working for you then? Are you the side job?


That would be another concern, If they have all this chit, I would be worried they are steeling jobs from me.

Pat


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## BC_Painter (Feb 14, 2010)

ewingpainting.net said:


> And if they have a sprayer, what are they working for you then? Are you the side job?


I bought my first sprayer for weekend work.

2 years later I quit my job, but still helped my old boss out all the time if he was in a jam, I was just a phone call away :thumbup: ( assuming it could fit into my schedule of course )


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

PatsPainting said:


> That would be another concern, If they have all this chit, I would be worried they are steeling jobs from me.
> 
> Pat



:yes: me too


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## BC_Painter (Feb 14, 2010)

PatsPainting said:


> That would be another concern, If they have all this chit, I would be worried they are steeling jobs from me.
> 
> Pat


Well I guess it comes down to integrity of employees as well.

I have yet to meet a painter that had his own sprayer and stole work, usually the guys stealing work have a broken pole, 2 drop sheets, and YOUR sprayer to do the job  ( that's just what i've observed though )


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

BC_Painter said:


> Well I guess it comes down to integrity of employees as well.
> 
> and YOUR sprayer to do the job  ( that's just what i've observed though )


lol, yep


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Jason, no skirting around the question. I did answer that vvvvv
> 
> 
> 
> ...


apparently your not getting it....


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Not being rude here
> .
> 
> .
> The perfect reason why one should not rent their employees equipment. Like I said Mr. Employee, got you by the balls. It will never be enough. You got a employee playing you.



Yes I have one employee playing me, but it's not the owner of the sprayer... This I have figured out. :thumbsup:


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Using employee tools is just asking for unwanted animosity towards you. Look at BC, he worked for a crappy employer but none the less he has animosity about all the little things that were never reimbursed. Employees will eventually hold a grudge against you for the wear and tear of their equipment even if you pay them for it. Buy a second or third rig to keep it all professional.


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

Workaholic said:


> I would advise against this scenario all the way around. The only way it would sound plausible to me at all would be if your rig broke down and his just happened to be available to use to finish up that job.
> I have multiple spray rigs and I would not expect a employee to provide one, it muddies the waters on the employee employer line. The employee then might to start to look at the relationship in the wrong light and start to wonder why it is not a partnership. His tools and your job kind of thing. Granted that is a prolonged example but it just seems easier to supply a second airless for the company to keep it all the way it should be.


O good, then I now have reason to fire them.... lol....


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> O good, then I now have reason to fire them.... lol....


Never fire, lay off 
Unless of course your really pizzed at em'


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

ewingpainting.net said:


> And if they have a sprayer, what are they working for you then? Are you the side job?


judgment.... careful...


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> O good, then I now have reason to fire them.... lol....


I am not sure if this was sarcasm but you can always fire them. 
I would be a little concerned that these guys are new hires and there are already problems and animosity emerging from this issue.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> judgment.... careful...


:huh: 
No judgment! Employer Experience!


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

Workaholic said:


> I am not sure if this was sarcasm but you can always fire them.
> I would be a little concerned that these guys are new hires and there are already problems and animosity emerging from this issue.


no problem here. Their not on payroll yet as due to my process. 

Just need to find different help it seems...................


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> apparently your not getting it....


Oookay!


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> no problem here. Their not on payroll yet as due to my process.
> 
> Just need to find different help it seems...................


Finding good help that you can eventually trust to handle things without you when you are not around is a hard road.


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

ewingpainting.net said:


> And if they have a sprayer, what are they working for you then? Are you the side job?


Ewing... due to my "judgment" comment...

This is what it seems; you do not need to be an employer to make that statement... Just because an employee has a sprayer does not make suspect or questionable to why their looking for a job.


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## BC_Painter (Feb 14, 2010)

Workaholic said:


> Finding good help that you can eventually trust to handle things without you when you are not around is a hard road.


Absolutely.

Some guys are GREAT when you're over their shoulders, they go to the basement, and paint the baseboards you SPECIFICALLY said to not touch PLUS they manage to get paint on the carpet against the baseboard at the same time. Or you leave for 2 hours to go spray a coat on some oil custom woodwork, and come back to a gouged floor cause he moved the washer dryer alone and did a  job, AFTER YOU TOLD them to not touch the things, and it's a BRAND NEW FLOOR


Employees are idiots! No wonder they can't run their own business! ( ok not ALL of them, but sometimes I wonder.. )


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Ewing... due to my "judgment" comment...
> 
> This is what it seems; you do not need to be an employer to make that statement... Just because an employee has a sprayer does not make suspect or questionable to why their looking for a job.


Sorry, I completely wasted my post counts. 
I'm not judging you or anyone. I've only ran 30 to 35, 6-10 man crews. but what do I know.


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Sorry, I completely wasted my post counts.
> I'm not judging you or anyone. I've only ran 30 to 35, 6 man crews. but what do I know.



I will give you credit in this particular situation... but in general your comment was judgment.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> I will give you credit in this particular situation... but in general your comment was judgment.


Get off you judging me about judging. Casting the 1st stone dude.


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Get off you judging me about judging. Casting the 1st stone dude.


No big deal man... It is what it is... 

I have other fish to fry, stay tuned!


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

For sure


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

KLaw said:


> Sounds like an interesting situation. You gave me some sound advice not to long ago about dealing with a potentially frisky client.


Bwahahahahahaha

:laughing::w00t::lol:

Hi Jason, its Kev. Hey listen up J Unit, I got a situation thats been bigging me, yo. I have this customer...

lol


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## bwallace10327 (May 28, 2010)

What is the difference if a carpenter supplies his own miter saw? He shouldn't be paid more but if he wants to use it he should be able to. I see no difference if you wanted to use your own sprayer


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## Woody (Jan 7, 2010)

Hourly guy are paid to use MY equipment.... not there's

Sub's use THERE equipment...Not Mine

Any>> "YOUR MY buddy.. crapola"..... You just ruined that relationship...With a Possible "Long-Term,Good Worker Type". Be an Aggressive ,Fair ,and Firm Boss, with Good Work Ethic, Fair Employee Wages $15-$25, And be a GREAT Salesman.... You will go far in anything you choose. 

Pick YOUR Friends wisely ,and ONLY trust your Wife.


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