# Once and for all CABINET THREAD



## AlphaWolf (Nov 23, 2014)

Ok so, Im going to start a set of cabinets today. Im going to take pictures and videos of the cabinets from start to finish. This will help people with questions on product and so on so forth. Im not a media wizard so bare with me on that. 

Primer http://www.sherwin-williams.com/pro...ducts/catalog/white-pigmented-shellac-primer/

Top Coat http://www.sherwin-williams.com/hom...pro-industrial-precatalyzed-waterbased-epoxy/

ill upload picks during the day from my phone and so on.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

AlphaWolf said:


> Ok so, Im going to start a set of cabinets today. Im going to take pictures and videos of the cabinets from start to finish. This will help people with questions on product and so on so forth. Im not a media wizard so bare with me on that.
> 
> Primer http://www.sherwin-williams.com/pro...ducts/catalog/white-pigmented-shellac-primer/
> 
> ...


I'm willing to see how this goes, but I am a little uncomfortable about doing so while naked.


http://public.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/bare.html


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Gough said:


> I'm willing to see how this goes, but I am a little uncomfortable about doing so while naked.
> 
> 
> http://public.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/bare.html


Loosen up a bit man. It's February.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Loosen up a bit man. It's February.


At least it's well above 0 here. Looks like -10 and snowing for you.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Gough said:


> At least it's well above 0 here. Looks like -10 and snowing for you.


Yep. Everyone's been complaining that they should just close the roads again due to whiteouts and drifting. Woodstove makes all the difference though and I've got nowhere to go.

Thus, I patiently wait for this official cabinet thread to progress... Buck naked.


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

I'm concerned about the possible health repercussions of working naked.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

epretot said:


> I'm concerned about the possible health repercussions of working naked.


I once saw a Craigslist add. The guy was offering to paint any room in your house for FREE. The catch was he did it in the nude.


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

Do all of you use shellac primer as the standard primer for cabinets?


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Hines Painting said:


> Do all of you use shellac primer as the standard primer for cabinets?



Yep, I prefer the Bin 👍


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

What if you had brand new wood cabinet doors? Would you still use shellac? And aren't the fumes bad if you are spraying it in someones house?


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Hines Painting said:


> What if you had brand new wood cabinet doors? Would you still use shellac? And aren't the fumes bad if you are spraying it in someones house?


Fumes??? :wacko: :wacko: :wacko:


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Hines Painting said:


> What if you had brand new wood cabinet doors? Would you still use shellac? And aren't the fumes bad if you are spraying it in someones house?


I always do everything I can to exhaust the fumes outside. Fans in windows etc. Bin is bad with the smell, but the advantage is it dose not linger and dissipates quickly.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> I always do everything I can to exhaust the fumes outside. Fans in windows etc. Bin is bad with the smell, but the advantage is it dose not linger and dissipates quickly.


I've always wondered if just because the smell goes away relatively quickly, does that actually mean the fumes have gone away as well.

I actually kind of like the smell of BIN. Coverstain kind of scares me ever since I got poisoned really bad one time and felt like I'd dropped a bunch of LSD, but not in a fun way.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

RH said:


> Fumes??? :wacko: :wacko: :wacko:


That's how you save on beer money!


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

epretot said:


> I'm concerned about the possible *mental* health repercussions of working naked.


Fixed that for you.


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## wje (Apr 11, 2009)

Hines Painting said:


> Do all of you use shellac primer as the standard primer for cabinets?


Yes I do


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Hines Painting said:


> What if you had brand new wood cabinet doors? Would you still use shellac? And aren't the fumes bad if you are spraying it in someones house?


Brand new work I would use kem aqua surfacer. I like using shellac on refinishes because it bonds really well and dries super fast. Its the only primer I know of that does that and will not attack the previous coatings. 

So long as temps and humidity are within spec its pretty fool proof fast prime and recoat. Like Paul said if you can recoat fast primer smell isn't an issue.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Hines Painting said:


> What if you had brand new wood cabinet doors? Would you still use shellac? And aren't the fumes bad if you are spraying it in someones house?


You wont know the difference with in 5 minutes


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

wje said:


> Yes I do


Me too. For refinish jobs anyway.


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## PremierPaintingMa (Nov 30, 2014)

Me too.


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## IIIGenerationPainter (Jul 7, 2014)

I had a buddy tell me he was spraying some crazy products and started to trip out and his boss told him to go across the street to the bar and have a few beers. After that he stopped weirding out. Lol idk just made me think of that


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

I use cover stain and proclassic but tried the precat waterborne today it sprays great just have to find the sweet spot in thinning to get it smooth. Crappy oak cabinets but this was an improvement.


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## AlphaWolf (Nov 23, 2014)

Update 1. Removed all doors and cleaned and sanded them. Here is a video of me spraying the primer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwoFuv1up4A

I cleaned with a Biodegradable Degreaser. 
Sanded with medium sanding pads and blocks. 

Ill take pictures of the actual system on the walls and videos from before and after.

Ill also do the same for the finish. At the end of everything ill do the scratch test so every one can see the finish product. AS any thing looks good as long as you dont touch it.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Cleaning is important 









Cleans, de-glosses and scuffs in one step.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Don't forget to clean all the gunk out of the cracks and crevasses.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Always remove the glass light pendants from the work area before you get this far:









Yes, they broke one.

Yes, we had to replace the whole set, so they would all perfectly match.

Lesson learned.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

AlphaWolf said:


> Update 1. Removed all doors and cleaned and sanded them. Here is a video of me spraying the primer.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwoFuv1up4A
> 
> ...



Are those doors directly on the paper, and if they are do you ever run into the problem of them sticking to the paper from paint on the edge?

Edit: This question was supposed to refer to the pictures of the doors drying and not the video of you spraying.


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

Your doors look great :thumbup:

i prefer to spray mine hanging

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-hE5oS4ahE

One i can spray both sides 
also with them being on the paper on the floor every time you move your feet or move the spray hose dust / dirt pop from paper

just curious what is the dry time on that paint, never used it but will pick up a gallon today to test this weekend at shop


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## AlphaWolf (Nov 23, 2014)

That booth I'm spraying in is in the home owners basement. That's y its not perfect. I had to build a temp 1 lol. As far as doors sticking, I place little yellow pyramids to stop that. I'll have more picks and videos tonight.


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## AlphaWolf (Nov 23, 2014)

sorry did alot of running around today. Took some picks the upstairs all caulked and a video of how i do it. But the video just looks silly. Ill have more stuff tomorrow sorry guys


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

AlphaWolf said:


> sorry did alot of running around today. Took some picks the upstairs all caulked and a video of how i do it. But the video just looks silly. Ill have more stuff tomorrow sorry guys



It's all good. Thanks for making the effort. You got me interested in that product now


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## AlphaWolf (Nov 23, 2014)

Small update. Ran out of bin. Called my SW rep happened to be at my store. Told me to try UMA primer. I asked him how it it is vs the almighty BIN. I was told it will stick better than almost any other primer they carry even Bin. Curiosity got the best of me so im going to try it on the kitchen today. I got it for free so why not text it for my self and you guys. Ill tell you my thoughts and give you all a video of me spraying it. 

http://www.lowes.ca/primer/rust-ole...ic-primer-sealer_g1838860.html?ProductSlot=31 thats the product.


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## JoeAntilla (Mar 14, 2014)

Holy $60 a gallon batman! For primer


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Rust-oleum makes Kilz as well, right?


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## Stonehampaintdept (Jan 10, 2013)

Woodford said:


> Rust-oleum makes Kilz as well, right?


Think they're separate. Rustoleum and Zinsser are RPM companies. Kilz is Masterchem.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

That's what it was, they're the same people as Zinsser.


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## AlphaWolf (Nov 23, 2014)

Update. Primer worked actually very well. Bonded well dried fast. Alot less odor than the BIN. At 1st i was worries about orange peel but it actually dried smooth. Here are some back picks i tool. Ill be back Monday with more pics.

sorry in advance for the back picks. My phone sucks as well as im absent minded and forget to take pictures in general lol.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

AlphaWolf said:


> Small update. Ran out of bin. Called my SW rep happened to be at my store. Told me to try UMA primer. I asked him how it it is vs the almighty BIN. I was told it will stick better than almost any other primer they carry even Bin. Curiosity got the best of me so im going to try it on the kitchen today. I got it for free so why not text it for my self and you guys. Ill tell you my thoughts and give you all a video of me spraying it.
> 
> http://www.lowes.ca/primer/rust-ole...ic-primer-sealer_g1838860.html?ProductSlot=31 thats the product.



Urethane modified acrylic primer. Probably very similar to Stix, which has great adhesion but poor stain blocking.


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## BpPaint&Reno (Oct 11, 2012)

That XIM UMA is good stuff. Benjamin Moore Advance I find works well for a water base and doesn't stink.

I used SW all surface enamel on these. Brush and foam roller...

Do you guys all use sprayers for cabinets?


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

BpPaint&Reno said:


> That XIM UMA is good stuff. Benjamin Moore Advance I find works well for a water base and doesn't stink.
> 
> I used SW all surface enamel on these. Brush and foam roller...
> 
> Do you guys all use sprayers for cabinets?



Those look really nice. I've seen excellent results with Advance and foam rollers. I don't think I would do a whole cabinet pack with them but on a small scale they work great. Though I have done interior repaints over previously sprayed finishes with advance and foam rollers with 15 or so doors and wainscoting on the main level. So I guess they are fine on larger jobs too. We were able to do one coat same color on trim so that helped a lot.


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## AlphaWolf (Nov 23, 2014)

IIIGenerationPainter said:


> I had a buddy tell me he was spraying some crazy products and started to trip out and his boss told him to go across the street to the bar and have a few beers. After that he stopped weirding out. Lol idk just made me think of that


No update today. Went to get my tattoo finished. 

As far as the quote here a story for every 1 to make them laugh. 

Im spraying an industrial job. Steel bins for chemicals required a 2 part Epoxy. Needless to say this smell could choke a maggot. Let me paint you a funny picture. Im wearing a space man soon as i call them. Fully sealed unit with its own air pumped in. One of the owners, you know the type, arrogant thinks he the boss of everything. Walks in on me yelling about something. My 1st reaction was turn around yell at him "GET THE HELL OT OF HERE". He made it around 12 steps in the booth and passed out. Fell like a brink, out cold. I had to drag him out buy his heels to fresh air and call 911. Needless to say he never bothered me again for the rest of the job LOL.


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## luny2nz (Nov 14, 2008)

AlphaWolf said:


> That booth I'm spraying in is in the home owners basement. That's y its not perfect. I had to build a temp 1 lol. As far as doors sticking, I place* little yellow pyramids *to stop that. I'll have more picks and videos tonight.


http://www.painterspyramid.com/
I'm always trying to save a buck so I make my own. I use door stop trim. Ill put a finish nail every 2" and then cut off each section. One stick of door stop is less $ than 10 of the pyramids, and you get allot more. 
I will use 4 per cabinet door. Shoot the back first,let dry for a few minutes then flip them and shoot the front. 
I do much better when I lay the doors flat.


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

Ok so I have done the following
Primed with cover stain
Sanded
Shot 1st coat of water based precat waited a full day 
Sanded again 
Sprayed second coat.
It lays out nice but still not as smooth as a precat laquers or proclassic.
But does have a tough finish


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

What grit are you sanding with between coats?


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

150 grit they smooth out it just does not have the same softness as proclassic or lacquers still tougher then proclassic thou.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

150 is pretty coarse for between coats, IMO. And without filling the grain in that oak, they're never gonna be very slick.


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

It was a fine sanding sponge so between 150-180. Same I have always used. The door has two coats of covers tain and 2 Precat coats the are the worst grained doors I have had in awhile. I don't think anyone understands when I say they are smooth just not soft. This pic is with 1 finish coat.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

That doesn't look like much build for four coats.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

I still can't get used to painting oak w/o filling the grain. I understand that it meets the needs of the clients, but I still can't get used to it.


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## Painter-Aaron (Jan 17, 2013)

Gough said:


> I still can't get used to painting oak w/o filling the grain. I understand that it meets the needs of the clients, but I still can't get used to it.


What do you use for filling the grain?


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

I personally don't think oak grain needs to be filled perfectly flush. However; it should be at least sealed to the point where there are no black voids visible. Especially with white and other light colors. Sometimes a little back rolling of the primer is enough, others may need to be skim coated/sanded with grain filler/spackle.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> I personally don't think oak grain needs to be filled perfectly flush. However; it should be at least sealed to the point where there are no black voids visible. Especially with white and other light colors. Sometimes a little back rolling of the primer is enough, others may need to be skim coated/sanded with grain filler/spackle.



Yes, I do more grain reducing on oak than grain filling. Filling is not often worth the effort with the cost of new doors.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

One coat white shellac and one coat of kem aqua.


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

I have done hundreds of oak doors. Nobody wants the additional cost of grain filling. It is cheaper to replace. I have not had such a rough set in awhile. These doors are extremely porous. This waterbased precat is nice but not as smooth as pro classic or lacquers. How is the Chem aqua now? I used it awhile ago and noticed it does not melt into itself when crossing over it on cabinet bodies.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Painter-Aaron said:


> What do you use for filling the grain?


Swedish putty, either our homemade version or from FPOE.

We typically only do that with face frames, etc. Doors get replaced, unless they are unusual or custom. As others have said, standard oak doors are typically easier to replace with paint-grade versions.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Gough said:


> Swedish putty, either our homemade version or from FPOE. We typically only do that with face frames, etc. Doors get replaced, unless they are unusual or custom. As others have said, standard oak doors are typically easier to replace with paint-grade versions.


 what is your formula for homemade Swedish putty?


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## luny2nz (Nov 14, 2008)

BPC said:


> I have done hundreds of oak doors. Nobody wants the additional cost of grain filling. It is cheaper to replace. I have not had such a rough set in awhile. These doors are extremely porous. This waterbased precat is nice but not as smooth as pro classic or lacquers. How is the Chem aqua now? I used it awhile ago and noticed it does not melt into itself when crossing over it on cabinet bodies.


We had a set like that last year. We used cover stain. To help fill the grain I had a guy back brush right after I would spray. After we sanded,vacuumed,and caulked the panels,we brushed the top coat to fill the remaining exposed grain.The texture of the door hides the brush mark realy well. Last two coats were sprayed. 
They turned out nice-no visible *open* grain.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Gough said:


> Swedish putty, either our homemade version or from FPOE.
> 
> We typically only do that with face frames, etc. Doors get replaced, unless they are unusual or custom. As others have said, standard oak doors are typically easier to replace with paint-grade versions.


ML Campbell makes a reducible grain filler that can be sprayed a d buffed into the grain.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

BPC said:


> I have done hundreds of oak doors. Nobody wants the additional cost of grain filling. It is cheaper to replace. I have not had such a rough set in awhile. These doors are extremely porous. This waterbased precat is nice but not as smooth as pro classic or lacquers. How is the Chem aqua now? I used it awhile ago and noticed it does not melt into itself when crossing over it on cabinet bodies.


Those are very grainy indeed. I love using ka, you do have to watch your overlaps and keep a wet edge. Extender and a shot of h20 help keep a wet edge and get good flow out, as does heating it up.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> what is your formula for homemade Swedish putty?


Whiting + oil-based enamel undercoater, mixed to the desired consistency.


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## AlphaWolf (Nov 23, 2014)

These Are the finished product sorry took so long been busy on other jobs


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## Painter-Aaron (Jan 17, 2013)

What would you guys say is the best cleaner/degreaser for cabinets? TSP or a good degreaser or both?


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## AlphaWolf (Nov 23, 2014)

i avoid TSP like the plague my self. Leaves to much of a residue for my. Really any biodegradable De-Greaser will work. Than sand and go to work.


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## cardwizzard (Sep 13, 2010)

Painter-Aaron said:


> What would you guys say is the best cleaner/degreaser for cabinets? TSP or a good degreaser or both?


Krud kutter original is my favourite.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Jasco no-rinse tsp. It's not really tsp. 
Or KRud Kutter


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