# Worn-out packings and fingering pattern?



## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

I have to admit for how long I've been using them I know ridiculously little about the anatomy of an airless. My question is to those of you with more knowledge, will worn out packings cause fingering of a spray pattern? 

I had all kinds of problems on a couple cabinet jobs, and thought it was temperature, surface contamination etc. After some further experimentation today it seems the problem may actually just have been related to a fingering spray pattern.

My titan 440 is just about 5 years old now, and it's gotten plenty of use. I've got a brand-new 308 fflp tip, but also had the same problems with a 310 and a 212. It seems to be fingering even when I had it almost maxed out on pressure. If I didn't have the pressure turned to at least 3 o'clock the spray pattern looked terrible, very spotty with lots of almost orange peeled areas. I would think for a low-pressure tip it shouldn't need to be cranked all the way just to get it to not finger.

I will say, that the fingering was the worst with breakthrough and cabinet coat. When I ran some latex primer through it later it seemed to spray out a lot better with hardly any fingering at around 3 o'clock on the pressure. Are breakthrough and cabinet coat just that heavy bodied that they can't be atomized at a standard pressure, or is that were potentially worn out packings might come into play?

Anyways, if anybody has any thoughts on this one let me know what you think. Thanks in advance.


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

If your sprayer can't maintain or produce the required psi to push your material through the tip, it won't atomize correctly. After five years, most likely need to repack. But a repack won't last if the piston is scored so check that too. Also upper and lower balls with seats all wear too. If you are using the FFLP tips, you should not need anymore than 2000 psi, If you have the pressure control with a colored light, set it to just past yellow, when it turns green or lower.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

I have bought bad tips before, but three in a row, is out of the question. Definitely repack.

Breakthrough is very thin. Cabinet coat is pretty thin too. I dont understand why a primer would spray better though. Maybe its just not as noticable?


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

Thanks Mike. Yeah that's about where I've been setting the pressure right where it turns green. Typically that has been good but that was not enough pressure for these last two cabinet jobs with the Breakthrough and cabinet coat. I had to pretty much crank it full bore. 

When I'm using a 517 or something along those lines I've always had to crank it near full, but I don't remember having to do that with the smaller fine finish tips or even something like a 415.


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

Hey Woodco, yeah that is the mystery that's got me confused. I had the doors flat and really good light yesterday so i could really see the spray patterns. The primer was definitely coming out smoother and fuller, while the Breakthrough and cabinet coat we're coming out very fingered and orange peel like. Hmmm. Which yes does seem weird because of how thin breakthrough is. I even cut it 15%, which helped a little bit but it was still coming out with a bad pattern until I cranked it almost full.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Do you clean your filters? I know that may sound like a silly question, but I new a guy who was having the same problems. I asked him that same question, he says "these things have filters?" My lord were they clogged! haha


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

Hey Kevyn yes I take out the manifold and gun filter every time I'm finished or switch finishes and give them a full cleaning. Give the rock guard a good scrub too with a wire brush. My first painting boss made sure of that


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Do you clean your filters? I know that may sound like a silly question, but I new a guy who was having the same problems. I asked him that same question, he says "these things have filters?" My lord were they clogged! haha



Yes, so crucial. I have had jobs where there was so much dried crap coming off the bottom of the bucket, that it wrapped around the intake and could not suck enough material. Also, some products jam up the gun filter and restrict material flow.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

MikeCalifornia said:


> Yes, so crucial. I have had jobs where there was so much dried crap coming off the bottom of the bucket, that it wrapped around the intake and could not suck enough material. Also, some products jam up the gun filter and restrict material flow.



That happened to me one time after I repacked a pump. Was very thorough on the fluid section and installed a new piston rod. Customer called me up later and said it wasn't spraying. Very confused because I cleaned everything, repacked, replaced hose connections w/ PTFE thread tape, Tested pressure with water. Well it turned out testing with _only_ water was the issue, the rock guard was gummed up and I hadn't noticed because it was sucking water fine. Tested with paint and it sure enough no suction.


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Do you clean your filters? I know that may sound like a silly question, but I new a guy who was having the same problems. I asked him that same question, he says "these things have filters?" My lord were they clogged! haha


I've seen that more than once....smh

Especially manifold filters.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

fromthenorthwest said:


> Hey Kevyn yes I take out the manifold and gun filter every time I'm finished or switch finishes and give them a full cleaning. Give the rock guard a good scrub too with a wire brush. My first painting boss made sure of that


 Good man. Sounds like your loosing pressure somewhere else then. Time to re pack her id say!


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## chucktodd (Feb 15, 2020)

I agree with the above posted - repack for sure


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

Thanks all, sounds like a repack is definitely in order. I'm on the waiting list at one of my local stores that works on pumps. If it works out I'm going to watch him do it so I can learn for myself. Can't wait to see if that solves the problem.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Although, one time a bunch of years back, when I was working for the man. There actually was a rock stuck in the lines somewhere. We were running water through the lines with no gun. Not much was coming out..we were all huddled over a 5 gal pail. Finally like a shot gun, the lodged object exploded into the bucket with so much force it blew my head back. It felt like someone punched me in the eyes. I was blind for about 15 minutes. 
Word of caution. Wear your safety glasses when cleaning out your rig..scary stuff.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Although, one time a bunch of years back, when I was working for the man. There actually was a rock stuck in the lines somewhere. We were running water through the lines with no gun. Not much was coming out..we were all huddled over a 5 gal pail. Finally like a shot gun, the lodged object exploded into the bucket with so much force it blew my head back. It felt like someone punched me in the eyes. I was blind for about 15 minutes.
> Word of caution. Wear your safety glasses when cleaning out your rig..scary stuff.



Happened recently to a customer I was helping clean out his sprayer. Was chugging along nicely, then nothing. Turned machine off, took the hose to compressor both sides clog loosened up at the opposite end and damn paint shot out like a cannon 30ft and hit the guys car across the parking lot


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

If you use a wire brush to clean your rock guard, there could be a bristle inside your check valve area. I've had it happen.


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## mDUB562 (Jul 31, 2012)

What type of paint are you using? If you're using that tip with anything other than lacquer it's similar to pushing a basketball through a wedding ring. Lower your pressure and increase your tip size. See following chart.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Oops...The title suggested the thread is something it's not. Never mind.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

CApainter said:


> Oops...The title suggested the thread is something it's not. Never mind.




I’m not sure I wanna know where your mind is here. But I bet Fauxlynn could guess. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

slinger58 said:


> I’m not sure I wanna know where your mind is here. But I bet Fauxlynn could guess.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 
I should of recognized it wasn't in the Old People forum...I think I'm digging a hole here. Exit. Stage left.


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

CApainter said:


> Oops...The title suggested the thread is something it's not. Never mind.


I was wondering if anybody was going to get a chuckle out of that. 😄


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

mDUB562 said:


> What type of paint are you using? If you're using that tip with anything other than lacquer it's similar to pushing a basketball through a wedding ring. Lower your pressure and increase your tip size. See following chart.


Mdub, that's a good point. Thing is I've been spraying trim packs and doors with a 310 and never had any sort of problem. It was just with breakthrough and cabinet coat. I even tried a 212 and it did it. I think it's a good idea though to try it with a 415 or something bigger just to see what would happen. Dont know if I'd be able to spray cabinets with something that big though.


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## ParamountPaint (Aug 25, 2016)

I had a time with some breakthrough a week or so ago with a 212ff. I strained the paint and the situation vastly improved, although my gun was giving me spitting fits by the end of it. (Gun is about shot, so I ordered a new one for next time)

I've never used an x08 tip for any sort of paint. Lacquer, maybe. I used one once for some semi transparent deck stain.

Despite the spitting, the cabinets turned out pretty well for painted oak with no grain fill.








We added the crown before painting and there were new counters, backsplash and flooring coming afterwards. I'm interested to see the final outcome, as it's my first set of blue cabs.


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## ParamountPaint (Aug 25, 2016)

Anyway, these were done with a 212ff on a titan 440i. I'm guessing around 2000psi, but lacking a pressure readout, I usually have the dial on the border of yellow and green for breakthrough.

It turns out both my gun and pump filters were in a bad way, but I hadn't used the thing in so long I didn't have any spares handy. I suspect that caused some of the issues. I had 60 mesh on the pump and 100 on the gun.

I can't see how packings could cause what you described, unless they were completely shot. The pump should be able to easily keep around 2000 with pretty worn packings. If they were that bad, the pump would be running all the time just sitting there and paint would be coming from somewhere it shouldn't.

Anyway, I just posted all this mess because I just did the same exact thing with the same exact equipment.


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

Looks like some fine finishing Paramount. Nice to see others shooting cabinets and with the good old 440. Thanks for the input too. One thing you mentioned I haven't considered as the gun filter, I'm running a white which I believe is a 60. Maybe I'll look into a finer filter there.

I was shooting some ppg Ultra hide on a rental turn around today, and just for the sake of science I pulled out the 308 tip. Came out looking great. So I'm not sure what the deal is with the Breakthrough and cabinet coat but there is something going on with my setup when it comes to those products. 

I think someone on here has mentioned that those urethanized products in particular don't like going through the smaller orifices. There may be something to that, because other standard latex paints seem to go through it all right. Maybe I'll set up with a bigger tip and try some breakthrough when I get a chance.


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## ParamountPaint (Aug 25, 2016)

Since I ordered a new gun and filters for the 440i, I decided to use it to spray some crown on our current project.

New gun, new 60 mesh on the pump and new 100 mesh on the gun.

This was ppg speedhide sg. I strained it and the seal grip that I used for primer. Existing finish looked to be satin impervo or maybe some pratt and lambert oil.

We scuffed it up lightly with sanding sponges and wiped down with damp microfiber cloth.

Night and day difference with the new gun and filters. I used a 210ff. I usually wouldn't bother masking and spraying such a small thing, but it was a terrible built up crown with dentils. 

The one noticable thing that I had somewhat forgotten is the 440 has a bit more pulsation than I am used to. My go to airlesscos are pretty on target when you set the pressure. That said, it worked ok for what I was using it for. I had the pressure dial slightly below the yellow/green spot on the dial. If I'm recalling correctly, this sprayer has never been






re-packed. It is pretty rarely used and may have a couple thousand gallons max run through it in 8+ years.

The pics are only the main lobby, but we had more of the same crown in other areas that we were able to knock out this evening/night.


Banker's hours are great, unless you are working in banks opposite banker's hours.

*I have never divined why some pictures are sideways and some aren't, but it's 4am and I'm not that worried about it at the moment.


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## PPD (Mar 19, 2018)

MikeCalifornia said:


> Yes, so crucial. I have had jobs where there was so much dried crap coming off the bottom of the bucket, that it wrapped around the intake and could not suck enough material. Also, some products jam up the gun filter and restrict material flow.




Just had to take my titan apart yesterday cuz it got a clog under the ball from the crap! Even w/ the red fine filter mesh & straining before spray it still makes its way in...& its always right when you get into the swing of things


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## canopainting (Feb 12, 2013)

Your cylinder sleeve could be warn out.


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## Mr Smith (Mar 11, 2016)

PPD said:


> Just had to take my titan apart yesterday cuz it got a clog under the ball from the crap! Even w/ the red fine filter mesh & straining before spray it still makes its way in...& its always right when you get into the swing of things


I have an airless that currently whines and runs on when under higher pressures. I assume that it because dried paint is not allowing the ball the seal properly. When I crank it to a lower pressure it doesn't run on and the piston is quiet. I'm not sure how to fix it. I'm glad that it can be fixed however.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Mr Smith said:


> I have an airless that currently whines and runs on when under higher pressures. I assume that it because dried paint is not allowing the ball the seal properly. When I crank it to a lower pressure it doesn't run on and the piston is quiet.* I'm not sure how to fix it.* I'm glad that it can be fixed however.



Time for a repack they will include new upper and lower ball in the kit. Make sure to inspect the lower ball seat when you go to repack. They are reversible if one side is worn.


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## PPD (Mar 19, 2018)

Mr Smith said:


> I have an airless that currently whines and runs on when under higher pressures. I assume that it because dried paint is not allowing the ball the seal properly. When I crank it to a lower pressure it doesn't run on and the piston is quiet. I'm not sure how to fix it. I'm glad that it can be fixed however.



Yep it can always be fixed -Maybe time to take it in & get repacked? 

If you wanna take it apart & aren’t sure how just youtube “model + stuck ball” or “model + wining under high pressure” , there’s prolly someone thats done a video on how to repair it. 

Mine is super simple- just a friction wire clamp holding the tube in, a few bolts,and the entire siphon area is apart. Always grease up the O rings with specific lube after clean too. 

Sometimes the just ball gets stuck. Have you tried giving that area a tap w/ a wrench or rubber mallet to see if makes a difference? 

I can usually tell its gunna happen when the pressure feels abnormal & it takes longer to prime. Tapping it only works for awhile tho, eventually you’ll need to get it serviced or take it apart & clean out whatever’s causing it to stick.


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

PPD said:


> Sometimes the just ball gets stuck. Have you tried giving that area a tap w/ a wrench or rubber mallet to see if makes a difference?


If that doesn't work,get a bigger wrench or mallet. Increase tool size until problem is resolved!:biggrin:


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