# Oil Impervo



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

If you were using satin impervo oil on a primer + 3 brushed application, for the in between coat sanding would you:

a. light wipe to smooth out any particles that settled in the finish during the eternal dry time

b. more comprehensive sand to dull the sheen and soften the brush marks

c. other, and if so, what do you like?


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## Tonyg (Dec 9, 2007)

I'll Play! :w00t:

What is "B" then "A" for $200



vermontpainter said:


> b. more comprehensive sand @ 220-320 to dull the sheen and soften the brush marks
> 
> a. light wipe to smooth out any particles that settled in the finish during the eternal dry time


Even the WB Impervo has an 8hr recoat time...


PS: I bought the Aura semi-gloss for trim today instead of the WB Impervo. I'm beginning to use this more often. I put 2 coats on in a day and even went back on some for a 3rd on some.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

To achieve the ultimate finish with this product, do you find it necessary to dull the sheen in between coats and flatten out the brush strokes, or do you just let it build with each coat?


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## Tonyg (Dec 9, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> To achieve the ultimate finish with this product, do you find it necessary to dull the sheen in between coats and flatten out the brush strokes, or do you just let it build with each coat?


 
Honestly, its been a while since I used the oil Impervo but I think every coating looks better when sanded and wiped clean between coats.


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## The paint whisperer (Oct 18, 2007)

I normally use 220 before I prime or first top coat. In between coats, I use one of those dark green dish scrubber to lightly sand.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

Boy its been awhile since we used it but with a little Penatrol it seem to level out great with sanding IMO. I would sand tho if I felt it was necessary due to dust or heavy brush marks...


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

I would scuff it with a fine or very fine sanding sponge, then tack off thoroughly. 

I don't recall seeing or having brush strokes with the Impervo, but the last time I used it was probably prior to them changing the formula for the VOC compliance. That might have made a difference in the leveling characteristics. Or I might just be that freakin' good.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Although I always resisted using BM's interior oils, the SOP for other SG oils was *b*. 

We would mix in a little raw linseed to retard drying and thus promote leveling..... and keep dust makers out.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

If all goes well on previous coats, I think it should be a real light sand before the final coat just to knock of any little nubs. I find if you sand too much, it can mess with the final sheen a bit with some finishes.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Green rubbing pad with grain between coats,tack rag,thin out paint a little bit so it goes on fast, if there is no air blowing on it and it dries slowly it will turn out great.You can also buff it a little after it dries.I would say three coats works best.I really like a brush finish with oil, give your eye something to look at, instead of the white-out look.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

daArch said:


> Although I always resisted using BM's interior oils, the SOP for other SG oils was *b*.
> 
> We would mix in a little raw linseed to retard drying and thus promote leveling..... and keep dust makers out.


DaArch:Wonder if they have changed linseed oil any over the years?


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

MAK-Deco said:


> Boy its been awhile since we used it but with a little Penatrol it seem to level out great with sanding IMO. I would sand tho if I felt it was necessary due to dust or heavy brush marks...


what he said


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

I also agree with Mak.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Are you saying it already has primer + 3 coats?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Bender said:


> Are you saying it already has primer + 3 coats?


 
Here are the exact details:

Its new construction. Paint grade trim package comes in as preprimed poplar, gets installed by carpenters, joints are sanded. We feather the joints, fill nails, caulk and apply full coat of oil primer, then two coats of oil impervo. All coats are brushed here, and we want to end up with the smoothest, most glass-like final coat we can achieve. My inclination is to smooth out alot in between our coats and lay that final coat out thin just to "tip it off". I was curious to hear from people who do alot of brush work with impervo, as to how far they go with the in between coat sanding. I like the look and feel of dulling the sheen and flattening out the brushed look to end up with a final coat where the brush work is very subtle, but still looks hand crafted. If you hit that final coat just right, it lays down beautifully and has the perfect look and feel. Don't get me wrong, I know that many guys here are able to achieve that by spraying, I have no doubt. Its not an option here, so we are trying to get as close as we can to a trim grade spray job by hand. I know there are guys here who are capable of that as well, and would appreciate hearing from them. Thanks.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

I just wish I had a builder who was;

A: So anal he wanted that kind of work.

and,

B: Willing to pay for that kind of work.


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## Tonyg (Dec 9, 2007)

So V, is it your choice for the oil? I like the WB Impervo when I don't need the dry times and like I said, the last two jobs I chose the Aura Semi and it levels out very nicely.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Tonyg said:


> So V, is it your choice for the oil? I like the WB Impervo when I don't need the dry times and like I said, the last two jobs I chose the Aura Semi and it levels out very nicely.


Tony

I specced the contract, which was about a year ago for waterborne, either wb impervo or aura. Oil impervo was offered as an upgrade and that is what they chose. Not my first choice to work with, but it sure is a beautiful finish. Hopefully, our last big hurrah with this product so I want to make it the best we can possible do.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Try an ox hair Corona chicago loop brush. Softer than white china bristle. The only downside, is I have only seen them in 2.5 or 2" widths. If you have wider trim, I would prefer a wider brush (seems to help with brush marks and not have to work the finish as much).


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

http://www.johnhowellconstruction.com/fire_place_resized2.JPG

This is Impervo brushed three coats


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Are you sanding because of brushmarks or for grit in the paint/air? If time/money are not a (big) factor I would sand between every coat. Otherwise I would sand only before the final. Do you have control of factors like dust and traffic?
You (or your guys) are supposed to be the technician. Your using a high quality product that NEEDS to be adjusted. I would bump all 3 coats and make them lay down like glass.
Have you ever used a Purdy ox-o-thin?

Nothing like answering a question with a question....:blink:


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Bender said:


> Are you sanding because of brushmarks or for grit in the paint/air?
> 
> _Both. We havent gone to extremes yet on the preliminary coats to created dust free conditions. So there is some airborne particulate contamination. Also, on the first couple of coats I am liking the look and feel of knocking down as much of the brush texture as possible. It is a builder/client that wants the very best and is willing to pay for it. _
> 
> ...


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

johnpaint said:


> DaArch:Wonder if they have changed linseed oil any over the years?


One would think not. I know they have changed all solvent paints to make them dry faster. And I always thought alkyd SI dried too fast anyway. The linseed oil improved the flow off the brush and slowed the drying to enhance leveling. 

If there are other trades still making dust, what can one expect but an anti-skid finish ?


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

dean speaks the truth>>>

corona chicago loop,,,,and a dash of penetrol,,,,thats how you get that finish

scuff and tack between coats.

those white bristle brushes cant compare.

you wont have the need to sand out big ridges of you use the ox.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

All of the Coronas seem to be a black china/ox hair blend. I have never enjoyed black china, especially with most of our trim packages being some shade of white. Any thoughts?


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

DeanV said:


> Try an ox hair Corona chicago loop brush. Softer than white china bristle. The only downside, is I have only seen them in 2.5 or 2" widths. If you have wider trim, I would prefer a wider brush (seems to help with brush marks and not have to work the finish as much).


2" is V's brush size so he would be happy with that brush!


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

The Chicago loop is all oxhair I believe, no black china bristle in it. I guarantee you it will be fine and soft. I do not care for black china bristle either, it is stiffer that that the white.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

http://www.thepaintstore.com/Corona_Chicago_Loop_Black_China_Ox_Ear_Hair_Blend_p/11549.htm

Maybe they have changed since you bought yours Dean. This appears to be 75% black china, which I am not sure I could live with. And yes, I am most def looking for 2".


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

then maybe try one made with 100% virgin camel eyelashes harvested during the winter solstice.

havnt you ever got impervo to lay down?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

:lol: Good one John. We are always looking for better product and application combos, I'm sure its not unlike painting signs. Thanks for your contribution.


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

scott, maybe they add the firmer bristles to give it some snap,,,,try the chicago loop and im certain youll like it,,,add a dab of penetrol to your pot and you wont have any ridges to sand down. all 3 coats should lay down like buttah.

and yes brush selection for sign painting is equally as important,,,,gotta have the best bristles.


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## dragula (Nov 19, 2008)

Does anyone ever use badger hair?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

high fibre said:


> scott, maybe they add the firmer bristles to give it some snap,,,,try the chicago loop and im certain youll like it,,,add a dab of penetrol to your pot and you wont have any ridges to sand down. all 3 coats should lay down like buttah.
> 
> and yes brush selection for sign painting is equally as important,,,,gotta have the best bristles.


John

Probably true. I will give it a shot. I have always avoided black because they leave tiny black sheds in what is usually some flavor of white finish. I'm sure corona uses a more select grade of black china than most, and I would guess that once the brush is broken in the tiny black particles cease. I am overthinking this a bit, I'm sure, but I want to put out the best we can on this particular job. Lots of trim to paint, and I feel fortunate to have this job right in the middle of winter. Thanks for the help, I will post updates.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

I believe the Corona "St Thomas" and "Bermuda" are white china ox ear blend maybe those would be better Scott as they don't have the black china in them... Just a thought.


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## TooledUp (May 17, 2008)

Scott, I'm not really familiar with the paint viscosity or the finish that the brushes you use leave behind but (at the risk of teaching my granny to suck eggs) keeping the paint warm helps tremendously with leveling - This is particularly true during winter months when the paint thickens with the colder climate. Depending on how many coats you're applying, thinning the initial coat(s) helps too. I would possibly thin the 1st coat a fair bit and the 2nd-to-last coat only very slightly, with a full coat for the finish. Keeping the environment *and* the paint warm is the key - It helps the flow and leveling of the paint and also helps the paint dry faster, minimising the risk of dust/debris contamination during the drying process.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Good tips, TU. I definitely agree with the temp, which has been pretty good onsite. We have dabbled with Jap Drier on some of the paint grade doors and my add it to our final coat on case and base. 

MAK, the Bermuda looks like a nice white china blend. I want to try one. Dragula, a friend from pt is sending me a badger hair to check out. I will keep you all posted on what lays out best for us.


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## TooledUp (May 17, 2008)

Sorry Scott, I didn't read (or my brain didn't absorb) the original question properly (missed the oil bit). Are you using the same brushes that you use for water based products? The best tools for oil are (if you can get them) Hamilton Perfection brushes for gloss - These have a fuller body and tighter bristle than the water-based brush range. I would recommend 1 1/2" and/or 2" for trim. We still use a lot of oil here in the UK and almost all brushes need to be broken in before they work well with oils. I tend to use new ones for wall paints and acrylic primers to break them in before dipping them into oil.

You also have to remember that oil takes at least a few weeks to fully harden so be careful when sanding in between coats because it tends to scratch rather than smooth out if you apply more than a light pressure when you're sanding. Ignore me if you already know all that - I just mentioned it because I know you guys don't use so much oil nowdays.


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## NACE (May 16, 2008)

Scott: Couple things. We used to put pre-VOC Satin Impervo in a seperate paper container and heat up the small portion with a hair dryer to help it flow and level like Cool Whip without having to compromise solids by reducing with solvent, or increasing solids or effecting dry times like with Penetrol or linseed oil. Raw linseed oil contains no driers, and therefore always stays tacky or soft. Heating also speeds up the dry, but doesn't effect the brushability, so that dust doesn't effect the final finish as much. Sometimes in dirty work places like new construction, we would mist the air with water from a garden sprayer to get airborne dust to settle. This kept dust out of the film. Also, if dust does get in the wet/dry film, you gave shave it off CAREFULLY with one of those straigh edge razor knifes like the wallpaper guys use. This cuts the dust off without effecting the final film. Also, even though labor costs are what they are, you can always go back to the old days of hand rubbing oil finishes with vegtable oil, rotten stone, and a clean cotton rag. The finish with this technique that is acheived is like a waxed vintage Ferrari, and it does not take long to do it. Satin Impervo, once dry, buffs out very quickly. Make up some samples and show to your clients, and you can upgrage the finish and price once they see the result. Satin Impervo was created to mimic the look of a hand rubbed oil finish. It use to say it on the label.


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## TooledUp (May 17, 2008)

NACE said:


> but doesn't effect the brushability


I would disagree on that point. Heating up actually helps the paint flow from the brush and enhances its spreadability. Much easier on the wrist :thumbsup:


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

VP said:


> _No, we are ordering them and Coronas to see how much of a difference they make. We have not been happy with our Purdy white chinas on this, the bristle patterns are not tight enough for our taste._


White China is simply bleached black China. Although I liked a 3 1/2 or 4 white China for brushing doors the blacks were only good for dusters.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Bender said:


> White China is simply bleached black China. Although I liked a 3 1/2 or 4 white China for brushing doors the blacks were only good for dusters.


I have heard that also, but they sure do not feel the same when brushing with them or comparing them in the store. Maybe they grade the bristle before they bleach it and the finer stuff goes into the white brushes or something.

With the impervo, I would not want a brush that is too soft either though, or it may not lay off the Impervo right, unless it is thinned (although I want to try warming it sometime also, have not done that yet).


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## GMack (Jan 18, 2008)

There are a lot of really great responses here and I was surprised by how many people were endorsing ox hair brushes right off the bat. With that in mind, has anyone ever used the Purdy Syntox? They are sold as a "clear finish" brush but also compared to ox hair brushes in their marketing. It's a synthetic bristle brush. If you've used one, have you ever used it for anything but clear finishes? Impervo?


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## TooledUp (May 17, 2008)

Bender said:


> White China is simply bleached black China.


And here's me thinking that they specifically bred albino pigs for them


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

it's a bit late in the game to figure out impervo. these systems should have been in place decades ago. this material is nearing extinction.


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## NACE (May 16, 2008)

high fibre said:


> it's a bit late in the game to figure out impervo. these systems should have been in place decades ago. this material is nearing extinction.


The product is not extinct, it is the regulations that are making it more and more difficult to make it comply.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

high fibre said:


> it's a bit late in the game to figure out impervo. these systems should have been in place decades ago. this material is nearing extinction.


Its never too late, and we arent really in a "figuring out" stage. Its more about taking what we have done in the past, which has been really good, and improving it. This thread is a little out of context to the scope and quality of the project we are applying the information to. This finish has to be off the charts, and everything we gain on this project we will take forward on all of our brushwork, no matter what the product or application. Doesnt matter if its oil and penetrol or waterborne and flotrol.

I appreciate everyones feedback on this topic. Its always smart to be tweaking and improving the finished product. In the market I am in, this is a point of differentiation these days. Most painters are going the other way, figuring out how to do it faster and cheaper by eliminating steps. I dont subscribe to that philosophy.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

NACE said:


> The product is not extinct, it is the regulations that are making it more and more difficult to make it comply.


The product will someday in the near future achieve "classic" status. But there will be enamels that approach the feel and look of it. The manufacturers are just way too smart not to figure out a finish that can nail that oil snob factor and deliver it in a waterborne or hybrid.


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

NACE said:


> The product is not extinct, it is the regulations that are making it more and more difficult to make it comply.


 
"this material is nearing extinction." 
johnthepainter 1/19/09 on satin impervo.


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## Tonyg (Dec 9, 2007)

I think looking for that old world way of bringing the craftsmanship back to the trade would definitely be a niche these days. Besides, who enjoys slopping paint around to change the color of something? :stupid:



vermontpainter said:


> Its always smart to be tweaking and improving the finished product. In the market I am in, this is a point of differentiation these days. Most painters are going the other way, figuring out how to do it faster and cheaper by eliminating steps. I dont subscribe to that philosophy.


I'd like to know more about "the old days of hand rubbing oil finishes with vegtable oil, rotten stone, and a clean cotton rag."


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## NACE (May 16, 2008)

Tony: There probably are many ways to hand rub an oil finish. Basically, the way we do it is to take a cotton or micro fiber rag, spray some WD-40 on it, dab it in rotten stone powder, and rub the surface until a satin to gloss luster appears. The rotten stone cuts quickly and leaves a very unique patina. Take a clean rag and remove any excess rotten stone. Pumice ash works too, but gives a duller appearance. Works well with harder acrylic finishes like WB Satin Impervo, Aura Satin or Semi-Gloss, Clear oil finishes, or any other brand of premium oil or latex finish. Does not work well with vinyl acrylics as it tends to burn through the finish. I have an 1830 colonial that has the original wide plank floors. I stained the floors with a dark oil stain, put on 3 coats of alkyd low luster clear finish, then hand rubbed with this technique, The final appearance and depth of color and wood grain are very unique and beautiful. Hope that helps.


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## Tonyg (Dec 9, 2007)

NACE said:


> Tony: There probably are many ways to hand rub an oil finish. Basically, the way we do it is to take a cotton or micro fiber rag, spray some WD-40 on it, dab it in rotten stone powder, and rub the surface until a satin to gloss luster appears. The rotten stone cuts quickly and leaves a very unique patina. Take a clean rag and remove any excess rotten stone. Pumice ash works too, but gives a duller appearance. Works well with harder acrylic finishes like WB Satin Impervo, Aura Satin or Semi-Gloss, Clear oil finishes, or any other brand of premium oil or latex finish. Does not work well with vinyl acrylics as it tends to burn through the finish. I have an 1830 colonial that has the original wide plank floors. I stained the floors with a dark oil stain, put on 3 coats of alkyd low luster clear finish, then hand rubbed with this technique, The final appearance and depth of color and wood grain are very unique and beautiful. Hope that helps.


Can't wait to try it. Would I find the rottenstone at a crafts store? What type of place would have it as I doubt the local SW or BM would carry it.

So, the final effect is just a glossier finish? Would it diminish or amplify the appearance of brush marks? I know the WB Impervo takes a while to cure in and I would think a heavy acrylic like Aura needs a decent amount of time as well. Could it be rubbed down 24hrs after coating without damaging the coating?


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## NACE (May 16, 2008)

Tonyg said:


> Can't wait to try it. Would I find the rottenstone at a crafts store? What type of place would have it as I doubt the local SW or BM would carry it.
> 
> So, the final effect is just a glossier finish? Would it diminish or amplify the appearance of brush marks? I know the WB Impervo takes a while to cure in and I would think a heavy acrylic like Aura needs a decent amount of time as well. Could it be rubbed down 24hrs after coating without damaging the coating?


Rotten Stone is a sundry item in all paint stores. It comes in a box with a Rainbow on the front? Yes, it does get rid of brush marks to some degree as long as they are not so pronounced. You can definitely rub it out it 24 hours. I made sample of the pre-VOC WB Satin Impervo a few hours after it was dry. It is a glossier finish but the look is "Hand Rubbed" which is much different than a gloss finish. It gives depth to the gloss like multiple coats of clear on furniture. Pumice ash gives you less of a sheen. Good luck, you really will be amazed at the results and how quickly they can be achieved. You can always finish with a beeswax or Butchers Wax for an exceptionally smooth and glossy appearance.


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## stansoph (Dec 16, 2007)

I use oil 99% and brush 100%. Lots of oil Impervo and Dulamel semi-gloss; generally high to very high end.

I use 2 types of brushes. First coat is with a Purdy Black China, what ever style you like. I check the brush for backward bristles, there will be some, trust me. I then take the brush and do about 250-300 stroke on a piece of 150 grit; along with ovals and figure eights. Check again for backwards and/or overly coarse bristles. I like the blac China over the white because it is a little stiffer. The sandpaper softens and adds to the flags which help it to hold more paint. I also don't think a China brush leaves as good a finish as the newer synthetics. I use them for their ability to hold a ton of paint without leaking. The other brush is a regular Purdy with the same sandpaper treatment.

After prep/prime/sand I tack off and wipe down with Paso. I use the paint straight out of the can for the first coat. I use the China brush and "flow" the paint on; just this side of a sag or run. i.e. heavy. One or two passes to true everything up and LEAVE IT. If you see a holiday you can catch it on the other coats.

The next day. I sand the entire first coat totally smooth. It will be soft enough to not be too difficult; I use 250-400. Sand all the brush marks out, they will probably be more like wave than lines. feather any holidays. Vac/tac and wipe down with Paso.

The second coat: I add about 8 oz of Penetrol and have the shop shake the crap out of it. I use the regular Purdy with the same sandpaper treatment for the next two coats. This coat goes on thinner than the first and will lay down and level well with very few brush strokes. I put on a good medium coat not heavy; closer to thinner than heavier.

Next day: Sand with 400 lightly but thoroughly. Vac/tac and wipe with Paso. I put my final coat down like the second with as few of brush strokes and marks as possible. I make my final stroke light and slow as opposed to light and fast. IMHO if you only smooth the surface the underlying brush marks will prevail. The slower stroke helps straighten the lines under the surface as well as the surface.

This works very well for me. Avoid any heated air blowing directly on wet work; it could blush and it will get crap in it.

Keep the paint warm/room temp.

Have the shop add the Penetrol and shake well.

With this meathod the work looks like it has been dipped and looks primo.

Good luck, sounds like a job I would lick my chops over. I have been f'ing with about a mile of dental molding this week.

Flame suit on for my unorthodox treatment of my brushes.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Stansoph

I was hoping to hear from you on this. Thank you for the very thoughtful response. We are doing many of the things you describe and are very pleased with what we are getting for results. You would enjoy this project, as a brush specialist. 

What is paso?


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## stansoph (Dec 16, 2007)

Paso is a liquid deglosser, sometimes hard to find. Comes in gallons and quarts. I know they have a website with a dealer menu. I like it over Liquid Sand. I have had no luck with any of the water based deglossers; they sometimes have silica in them and really are not strong enough for efficient use. I am jealous of your cool job.

http://www.texaspaint.com/Paso.htm


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Very interesting. I will check that out. Its a large new construction job, so as you can imagine, creating dust free (relatively speaking) zones has been the challenge - zip wall city. Its not a perfect scene for impervo, but we have come up with some innovative solutions to get that satiny smooth result. If you are into new construction at all, let me know and I will fill you in.


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## stansoph (Dec 16, 2007)

I love ZipWalls.


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

*Oil Impervo.*

I can make oil impervo look sprayed when brushing.

Most of what I am about to say flys in the face of convention, so I am ready for the onslaught of nay-sayers.

I used Impervo for years. Finally, I got sick from breathing solvents, and I don't work with solvent based paints any more. I do miss working with it though, it is a beautiful finish that has a glow like no other.

We used to add only Naptha. It dulls the sheen a little. In fact I think it dulls it to the perfect "satin". The thing is the sheen on the oil impervo will fade any way over time. When we would go in and repaint some trim, it would look more like the trim in the rest of the house as soon as we were done. And it would stay that way rather than changing over time.

If you add to much naptha it will curdle the paint, and I think the new formulations may be more sensitive to this, you should _*ask your rep*_.

We used to add quite a bit of Naptha, this did two things, it flows out of the brush super fast and easy, we would "flood" it on. The leveling would happen right away because it was so liquidy. It's like working with multiple thin automotive coats. (although not NEARLY as reduced as automotive paint) but the concept is the same.

And the second thing is, it would dry very quickly eliminating dust. And if there was any sanding or a drip etc., you could really lay into it the very next day.

Even reducing a lot with regular paint thinner, achieves the same effect, but it doesnt dry as quick, and does retain more sheen. (which eventually fades any way) The paint thinner is definately less damaging to breath. But I won't do ANY solvent work without a fresh air system any more any way.

It's good to get your color on with your primer, because flat paints cover a lot better than shiny ones. And put a couple reduced coats on for a finish and sheen.

(Here goes)::whistling2:

One more thing: NYLEX. There was a post on here that talks about conditioning your china bristle to make the ends softer. When you buy a brand new nylex brush its already very, very soft. This leaves *NO brush marks what so ever*.

Get a stiff Nylex brush, with as much "depth" to the ferrule thickness as possible, the more bristles you have packed next to each other, the more the bristles stay together rather than splitting apart.

This Nylex technique only works if you will be brushing your material on THIN. If you are using thick oil that has not been reduced, you can not use Nylex because it is not stiff enough to work the material. If working high viscosity, you need china bristle brushes.

Also, don't get the the Nylex formulated for "all paints". The ends of the bristles are coarser. Get the regular Nylex for painting latex. It cleans up just fine with thinner, and will only melt if you try to clean your brushes with something like lacquer thinner or MEK.

However, because the bristles are not hollow, it takes an hour or so to get used to brushing the oil with a Nylex brush. Laying it off is a little different than with a china bristle.

One more thing. Only sand in between coats if you feel dust or hairs on the finish, and only where there is dust and hairs on the finish. Sanding in between coats just for the sake of sanding, just creates *more dust*. Get the area very clean before painting, and don't let air blow around in your work space. You should only need to swipe the surface quicky with a fine flexible sanding pad in between coats to knock off dust "hairs".

I am assuming you have a vacuum that doesn't blow a plume of dust out of the exhaust

If the oil you are using wont stick to itself without sanding, something is wrong with the paint. Only sand very lightly in between coats with a PAD(the flexible kind, not the kind with corners, corners scratch the finish), and ONLY to remove hairs or dust that has settled on the paint. 

The concept of sanding everything in between coats to give it "tooth" is overkill. This creates a ton of new dust every time, some of which always makes it into the next coat, creating a perpetual loop.

Of course all horizontal ledges could use a quick swipe with the pad and a tack cloth, they almost always have a few hairs/dust on them.

So that's all, I just thought I would stir up the hornets nest.

Have fun Y'all. Buzz. Buzz.


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## stansoph (Dec 16, 2007)

Last Craftsmen; All,

I feel like we have a similar approach to this. I use a thick brush; Purdy Elasco(basically a 2", 2.5" Swan with a long handle) I have Black China and Synthetic models, for the reasons you stated above. I opt for the heavy first coat for a good foundation and hides any flashes that might show up with a thin base coat. I use a sponge for all but the sanding after the first coat. I do like the thin paint for the coats for the reasons you stated; it levels perfectly. I have used thinner or laq thinner at times for this but I have opted for the 8-10 oz of Penetrol to achieve this. I haven't tried the Naptha; yet.but will. The paint barely drips from a loaded brush almost a steady stream.

As for my "dust pump" vacuum I have 50' of hose and the vac stays outside, eliminates dust and noise. I agree with the dust. The majority of my jobs occupied repaints so dust control is very important. I like the WEBB Abrasive sponges they last forever. I have tried the Nylox brushes I agree they leave a nice finish but I prefer a little stiffer brush.

Basically the same premise of technique to achieve fabulous results. I think it is pretty cool to find two people who do it similarly that have never met or talked.

Goodluck and enjoy your work.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

2 good posts ........ I will have to try Naptha ....adding thinner messes with the sheen too much.


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

*Neps...*



NEPS.US said:


> 2 good posts ........ I will have to try Naptha ....adding thinner messes with the sheen too much.


 
Do not use Naptha if you want maximum sheen. It does dull the sheen some.

I actually like the dulled sheen. And so do many many high end clients I have worked for in the past. It has what I would call a "glow". Just enough to reflect a little light from straight on, and enough that when the sun catches it, or other light catches it, people can really see the beauty and uniformity of the paint job, and the finish.

I think satin oil impervo is too shiny, especially the acrylic version. (not that you can add naptha to the acrylic version) 

Plus Satin impervo eventually fades anyway. I prefer to just give the customer a finish that will look the same the entire time.

If they want shinier finish, just go with semi gloss, or gloss. That is assuming the paint manufacturer has no qualms with adding Naptha. (I still use naptha and settle for a slightly less shiny gloss).

It does such wonders for the finish, it dries so quick from not only the chemical action of the Naptha, but from being reduced.

What is weird, is that it seems to extend the working time while your are working with it, yet still dry a lot quicker once you are done brushing it.

It's like magic.

Also for spraying it is KING. It really, really makes the process easier. It flows out right away, but then dries quicker eliminating dust and sags.

The overspray that goes in the air is less, what goes on the wall or floor is less and dries more quickly. A room full doors does not stay sticky and messy for days when you reduce with Naptha.

When I walk into a room full of doors where someone is spraying un-reduced oil, it's so thick in the air, it literally sticks to my arm hairs right away.

I used to work for a guy whos doors took THREE days to dry before they could be moved, and even then they were *still* soft.

With naptha, you can re-hang doors the next day, you just cant stack them without putting something soft in between.

Give it a try and see if you like the look. You will also find that the slightly less sheen hides more imperfections of old paintjobs, and makes things generally look newer and in better shape.

I don't even explain to the clients that I will be changing the sheen any. They know they like the look of the work the references had done, and they want the same look.

Unless they bring up sheen, or there is a decorator or contractor involved. Then I show them an actual sample of sprayed or brushed trim, I show it to them in the light and say, "this how the sheen turns out" "it is what I prefer, is this shiny enough"?

95% of the time, they say, yeah, it looks great do it how you want.

The other 5% I will make the sheen shinier if that is what they want.

Give it a try, but realize it does reduce the sheen.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

I love spraying Satin Impervo. I will try it out next time. Thanks for the great information. :thumbsup:


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> If you were using satin impervo oil on a primer + 3 brushed application, for the in between coat sanding would you:
> 
> a. light wipe to smooth out any particles that settled in the finish during the eternal dry time
> 
> ...


lol @ brush marks.

With an ox hair brush and your alkyd stepped on with some mineral spirits, brush marks are a thing of the past.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

lol!


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## ortiz23 (Aug 31, 2009)

yup, they all hit the nail on the head with this one. I do the same bit of penetrol and a good brush does it like glass everytime. Sanding between every coat can never be a bad thing if cost and time permit you.
I have been out of penetrol a few times so i have used solvent before, works great too.

Enjoy as I know I love laying impervo! it is so ssexy!!


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Does anyone know where stansoph has been? He was always a good poster. Anyone seen him around?


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## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

The company I worked for for 5 years uses oil impervo all the time for trim. I can tell you it is not as good as it was 5 years ago for leveling. What we would do has basically been said already. Thin with penetrol tip off let dry 24 hrs sand smooth, vacuum tack cloth and put the second coat on thinned with penetrol.

Here is a little trick if you are doing a repaint when brush strokes are aggressive and difficult to sand out. Use impervo and thin it 30-40 percent with penetrol and it will give you a nice level surface to start with. I never would have believed it but I did it one time when I was employed by my old boss and it worked great.

Naptha is great for spraying impervo especially with a cap sprayer. I use it all the time.


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## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

Wow this was an old thread I did not realize that


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Well since Oritz revived this dead thread:
The last couple of days I have been using high gloss industrial enamel for trim and it has been pretty nice and kind of made me miss oil, so smoooooth. 
I used to use it all the time but the last 5 years I phazed it out. I dislike the added expense of cleanup and thinning though.


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## ortiz23 (Aug 31, 2009)

Workaholic said:


> Well since Oritz revived this dead thread:
> The last couple of days I have been using high gloss industrial enamel for trim and it has been pretty nice and kind of made me miss oil, so smoooooth.
> I used to use it all the time but the last 5 years I phazed it out. I dislike the added expense of cleanup and thinning though.


Sorry for reviving a beat thread.......just saw someone reading it so i thought it needed an answer till i saw 3 pages of them. but i love impervo and it brought back so many good memories had to put in my 2 bits.

Yup workaholic i miss using it daily too........those were the days


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## Tonyg (Dec 9, 2007)

Will probably paint my kitchen cabinets this spring - used the Oil Impervo the first time so I will get to use it again  For my customers I have gone to the Aura but look forward to doing my own.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Well, how did the job go? Inquiring minds want to know!


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## K.Pav (Jan 18, 2010)

_////_


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

If I need oil that is the only brushing oil I will use. I love it.


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## Brian339 (Mar 15, 2009)

I have used Satin Impervo for 20+ years. I also know the product is not what it used to be. It can be made to act like the old product but prep will always be key.

As for the ultimate consistancy and a spray like finish you will need to use thin coats. I go with 15 to as much as 20% penatrol and then I run each liner full through a cup strainer. I usually mix up two quarts at a time.

Be sure to thin your underbody 15% as well. This is where most of the brush marks will develop. 

They are a real bitch to sand out after the second coat if you dont get it right.

I also us M&H to fill everything befor the primer goes on.

This is all done over the care of a very good eye.


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## bay area contractor (Sep 19, 2009)

vermontpainter said:


> If you were using satin impervo oil on a primer + 3 brushed application, for the in between coat sanding would you:
> 
> a. light wipe to smooth out any particles that settled in the finish during the eternal dry time
> 
> ...


After the prime i would make a 50% prime + a 50 % enamel-a split coat.
Then I would sand again with 320 tack clean and apply two coats of the oil thinned slightly with meneral spirits and penetrol. Will look like glass.


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## Slingah (Sep 24, 2007)

bay area contractor said:


> After the prime i would make a 50% prime + a 50 % enamel-a split coat.
> Then I would sand again with 320 tack clean and apply two coats of the oil thinned slightly with meneral spirits and penetrol. Will look like glass.


back in the old days...this is exactly what we would do with nicer new work...but usually the product was B.M. Dulamel, sometime S.I.
Brushed... with brushes cleaned with kerosene to stay soft.
Like glass.


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## MNpainter (Jul 17, 2008)

Last Craftsman said:


> Do not use Naptha if you want maximum sheen. It does dull the sheen some.
> 
> LC I have never had Naptha dull the sheen of SI. Perhaps I use less than you do. That is the only reducer i use no spirits or Penetrol. The rest of your points were very interesting and jibe with my experience as well.:thumbup:
> steve


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