# Using Shellac primer to seal nicotine stains/odors



## mpminter (Mar 21, 2011)

I'm bidding on a job that has heavy nicotine damage (3 packs a day for 20 years). The plan is to shoot the walls, ceilings, trim and floors in the entire place with a generous coat of BIN to seal in the stains and odors. My question is, should I back roll the BIN, or just spray it? Also, I have only ever used BIN as a spot primer in the past, and have never sprayed the stuff. Because of how thin it is, I'm thinking a .013-.015 tip. Is that about right? Thanks for the input! :notworthy:


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

I think it might be hard to get it uniform and it does run, so backrolling with an 18 would be good. Or just an 18 or 3. And spraying BIN at 50-60 a gallon is pricey, you would use a lot of product. It does not go far rolling it, spraying might be really low sqft coverage. All those flammable fumes too...better not flick the lights too much!


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## mpminter (Mar 21, 2011)

There's no question the stuff smells, and it's definitely thin. I may have to do two light coats and I'll probably have to keep the sprayer pressure turned down pretty low. That's why I'm thinking a smaller tip might be just the thing.


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## painterdude (Jun 18, 2008)

Coverstain...sprays great. If you're good, no need to backroll. Will lock in nicotine. Floors? pd


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

I was going to ask about the floors too. If they don't get done, the odor will still be there. 

I use coverstain on things like this. So much more user friendly and less than half the price of BIN.

Use a small tip for BIN. I'd have a roller handy for any runs that may develop.


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## wills fresh coat (Nov 17, 2011)

mpminter said:


> I'm bidding on a job that has heavy nicotine damage (3 packs a day for 20 years). The plan is to shoot the walls, ceilings, trim and floors in the entire place with a generous coat of BIN to seal in the stains and odors. My question is, should I back roll the BIN, or just spray it? Also, I have only ever used BIN as a spot primer in the past, and have never sprayed the stuff. Because of how thin it is, I'm thinking a .013-.015 tip. Is that about right? Thanks for the input! :notworthy:


Spray it with a 411 or 413


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## mpminter (Mar 21, 2011)

As I said in the OP, I will be spraying the floors as well. I would use coverstain, but I don't trust it as much as I do shellac. will the CS seal in the odor like the BIN will? I've used BIN to block pet odors and it worked awesome!


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## Custom Brush Co. (Jan 26, 2011)

Use fine finish tip by graco 4-10. Evenly fog coat (move slower at a greater distance from the wall). No back-rolling.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

mpminter said:


> As I said in the OP, I will be spraying the floors as well. I would use coverstain, but I don't trust it as much as I do shellac. will the CS seal in the odor like the BIN will? I've used BIN to block pet odors and it worked awesome!


For me it would come down to quantity. Coverstain would be fine for some nicotine jobs but if it's really bad BIN is insurance. Don't think I've ever had a stain, or odor, come back through that stuff. As for back rolling, guess it would depend on the texture. Smooth to light orange peel just spray. Anything else may need back rolling.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Pigmented shellac based products have a thin mil requirement and should not be applied thicker then recommended. I would spray BIN on it without back rolling. Sometimes back rolling will pull the nicotine contaminate to the surface of the primer. Think encapsulation for stain and order control.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I find Bin to dissipate it's solvents and odors quicker then an oil base primer, even though initially it has a stronger and much more volatile vapor and odor. Fans and OV respirator are a requirement with that much spraying.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

It's been a long time since I've sprayed a complete interior with BIN and likely never will again. But if I was at a point where I was going to do any of it at all I wouldn't hesitate to invest in a fresh air respirator system. Those brain cells will come in handy some day. 

If some of you young guys learn nothing else from us old farts here at PT it's that it's never too soon to start protecting your health. At one time we all thought we were invincible too.


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## mpminter (Mar 21, 2011)

I have a properly fitted respirator with organic vapor cartridges, but am I reading that you don't feel as though that will be sufficient?


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## mpminter (Mar 21, 2011)

Update: Just looked up the MSDS for BIN and talked to a technical representative at Rustoleum. They recommend a full or half face respirator with organic vapor cartridges. I like the idea of supplied air, but I don't see how it fits into the budget. If that's what was recommended I would have adjusted my estimate to absorb the cost, but I'm gonna stick with the manufacturers recommendations on this one.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

Wasn't kidding about combustion hazard, All that vaporized alcohol and "other stuff" BIN has and cigarettes and/or furnace turning on could be bad.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

mpminter said:


> Update: Just looked up the MSDS for BIN and talked to a technical representative at Rustoleum. They recommend a full or half face respirator with organic vapor cartridges. I like the idea of supplied air, but I don't see how it fits into the budget. If that's what was recommended I would have adjusted my estimate to absorb the cost, but I'm gonna stick with the manufacturers recommendations on this one.


No it probably isn't suggested as a requirement but just thinking back to my years in the business, I think it would have been a wise investment that might have better protected me in a variety of situations over the years. 

We may think nothing of spending top dollar for quality spray units and dustless sanding systems that will allow us to improve the quality of our work but will likely balk at spending money on something like this - that's just human nature. And please don't think this isn't meant to be a criticism aimed at you MP - it's not. Hell, I never owned one myself. Just an observation on what we typically _tend_ to place value on.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Fresh air supplied respiratory systems can get pretty expensive, starting with around $500 for an MSA respirator. Then you have to get an air monitored breathing box that's OSHA compliant, and a quality portable compressor that'll supply the required CFM to maintain what I believe is something around 20 psi. I don't really know the psi requirement. Usually, I just crank up the air to the max, and adjust my inline air conditioning unit as needed.


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## painterdude (Jun 18, 2008)

still haven't figured out why you're painting the floors. What kind of floor and what kind of unit is it. You can clean floors. Painting floors? pd


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## mpminter (Mar 21, 2011)

painterdude said:


> still haven't figured out why you're painting the floors. What kind of floor and what kind of unit is it. You can clean floors. Painting floors? pd


I'm not painting the floors, I'm just priming them. Smells such as nicotine can work their way into a porous surface like wood, so I am priming the floors to seal in the odor. Shellac and shellac based primers are excellent for sealing in smoke, nicotine, and pet odors and are widely used by restoration specialists. Besides, It'll take me alot less time to shoot the floors with a coat of primer than it would to scrub them all down with Krud Kutter or TSP.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

D you have a coworker? I have heard from toooo many painters stories about a guy wearing a respirator passing out in an attic spraying Kilz or BIN in an attic or similar on fire jobs. They would rotate being spray man, but sometimes the pump would go silent and they would need to pull one painter out and send another in. Not cool.


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## Andyman (Feb 21, 2009)

I did a flip where the wood floors were stained with who know what. I shellac'd them to seal the smell and stuff and it worked great. Go for it.

A pergo style floor was installed over it and you wouldn't know anything different.


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## propainterJ (Jan 31, 2011)

Once Shellac dries it's no more flammable then any other Paint.

I wouldnt back roll shellac,it dries too fast,unless you thin it and even then,you have a very limited time to lay it off.

No need anyway,you can spray it nice and wet and it wont run on you,just gotta not overapply.

Practice,practice,practice.Don't thin it,mix it up real good and spray away


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## Toolnut (Nov 23, 2012)

Hey guys dumb question probably but doesn't SW make a primer that is used a lot in like fire damage to control the smell. Brain fart I don't remember what it is called but as I remember it's a lot less than BIN and the odor is a LOT better will this not work for nicotine?


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## caulktheline (Feb 10, 2011)

You talking about street marking paint?


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Toolnut said:


> Hey guys dumb question probably but doesn't SW make a primer that is used a lot in like fire damage to control the smell. Brain fart I don't remember what it is called but as I remember it's a lot less than BIN and the odor is a LOT better will this not work for nicotine?


Nothing will touch shellac for sealing smoke smell and stains. SW does sell white shellac primer. Retails for about the same as bin. 

Dang necro thread. I hope the op didn't backroll, shellac sprays like a champ.


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## Toolnut (Nov 23, 2012)

The one I was thinking about is called Prep Rite I think


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Toolnut said:


> The one I was thinking about is called Prep Rite I think


Alcohol based or Shellac. If it cleans up with Alcohol, that's what you want.


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## mpminter (Mar 21, 2011)

straight_lines said:


> Nothing will touch shellac for sealing smoke smell and stains. SW does sell white shellac primer. Retails for about the same as bin.
> 
> Dang necro thread. I hope the op didn't backroll, shellac sprays like a champ.


I haven't started the job yet, but I don't plan to backroll. What tip do you like for this stuff? I'm thinking of an .013 or .015 and low pressure.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Any tip you need would most likely be fine. I used a 517 on walls a few weeks ago. Set pressure where you need it for a good pattern. Reduce if you need to 2-3%.


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## Roadog (Apr 18, 2007)

I always spray shellac for a base when I'm gold leafing. Sprays great but it will "fog" the room. If you can get in and out, great. I have been in a room over 30 mins. and you need good eye protection, (as in sealing your eyes, goggles) cause after a bit there is a lot of alcohol in the air. Need a good respirator too.


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

On a related note..

I sometimes will try and tint Uni shellac to tone some existing trim, and universal tints don't mix in well . Anyone else do this and what works to tint the shellac any better?


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## Roadog (Apr 18, 2007)

Yes Brush,....Transtints. Work great in shellac


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

oooh- great tip- had not heard of those. Looks like they would work for a dye and to put in wb clears too- nice. 

Thanks!


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## NACE (May 16, 2008)

Mixol Tints work great too.


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