# Throwback Sunday



## Underdog

At least I think that's what the young'uns call it.

Every once in a while I'm responsible for covering up a part of anthropological decorating history. 
I used to install these back in the seventies and you can't help but notice when it's the 2015's.

It was a funny little debate between husband and wife as to whether or not it stayed. But when the little stick figures in ink appeared there was no going back. Change is in the air.

Up to y'all to decide whether or not you agreed with the decision.


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## I paint paint

Perfect timing for this thread. Arch is going through all his photo/work archives as we speak. I think he'll come up with a pre-war gem or two to post here for you.

(No silly. He _stripped_ the pre-war gems. He didn't install them.)


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## Underdog

I paint paint said:


> Perfect timing for this thread. Arch is going through all his photo/work archives as we speak. I think he'll come up with a pre-war gem or two to post here for you.
> 
> (No silly. He _stripped_ the pre-war gems. He didn't install them.)


Look forward to that. My family has been hanging since the 40's.
It's a shame photography wasn't as popular as now, of course it was expensive and few had the insight to realize that the pictures of old walls would be appreciated.

Oh, and I know he didn't install them, he was only a helper back then.


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## RH

Is that Mt. Vernon? 

I think it actually looked kinda' neat and seemed to fit the room. Still, I didn't have to see it day after day. The new wall look is a bit boring though.


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## Underdog

Looks like Louisiana to me. (Boat on the left)

Yeah those older neighborhoods get away with a lot of designs that don't work in new houses.
One man's boring is another's background for a really heavy designer mirror.


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## I paint paint

You hanging the heavy mirror? Or somebody else grab short straw?

Edit: Also meant to say, that looks like a "blue booty" house. The type of place all the contractors are asked/required/feel obligated to wear those blue protective over socks over their work shoes.

You and Michael Tust, the "blue booty" crews.


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## daArch

I've talked a few customers into saving their "mural" or "scenic" on their dining room walls. 









The HO's decided to keep this and actually got some restoration experts to bring it back to life. It's hand painted on canvas hung in the 20's or 30's. The house is right for it. 


That one of "My Vernon on the Bayou" doesn't look like one of the classic Zuber or other mega expensive hand blocked prints, but it is still a lot more pleasing, in my eyes, that a drab poop brown wall.


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## Underdog

I paint paint said:


> You hanging the heavy mirror? Or somebody else grab short straw?
> 
> Edit: Also meant to say, that looks like a "blue booty" house. The type of place all the contractors are asked/required/feel obligated to wear those blue protective over socks over their work shoes.
> 
> You and Michael Tust, the "blue booty" crews.


 Before I installed it I found the studs for them but I don't do so many extraneous courtesies anymore. I've had 'em not stop until I refuse to put shelves in their laundry rooms before. Don't know how we get the reputation as handy men sometimes.

Hate those paper work shoes. I tend to line the floors with paper or plastic before the drop cloths to give them the assurance that dust won't leak through the weave of the canvas drops. If they ask me to remove my shoes, I tell them that it's against my religion.


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## Underdog

daArch said:


> I've talked a few customers into saving their "mural" or "scenic" on their dining room walls.
> 
> 
> 
> The HO's decided to keep this and actually got some restoration experts to bring it back to life. It's hand painted on canvas hung in the 20's or 30's. The house is right for it.
> 
> 
> That one of "My Vernon on the Bayou" doesn't look like one of the classic Zuber or other mega expensive hand blocked prints, but it is still a lot more pleasing, in my eyes, that a drab poop brown wall.


Well at least the husband participated in the decision which a lot of them don't do. He was the one who inked it. Luckily I came in after the fact.
I can only assume that the brown is for being a matting so as not to distract from the mirror.

The mural was in remarkable shape before they painted around the edges. I could see trying to save something from the early 1900's though.


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## I paint paint

daArch said:


> I've talked a few customers into saving their "mural" or "scenic" on their dining room walls.
> 
> View attachment 52474
> 
> 
> The HO's decided to keep this and actually got some restoration experts to bring it back to life. It's hand painted on canvas hung in the 20's or 30's. *The house is right for it.*


That's a gorgeous room Arch. You're right the house is right for it--ornate crown, period sconces, etc.

You either hang a huge framed hand painted canvas on that wall. Or you wrap the room in canvas and have an artist come in with an easel. Art patrons seem to be able to have it any way they want. :yes:


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## I paint paint

Underdog said:


> Well at least the husband participated in the decision which a lot of them don't do. He was the one who inked it. Luckily I came in after the fact.
> I can only assume that the brown is for being a matting so as not to distract from the mirror.
> 
> *The mural was in remarkable shape before they painted around the edges. *I could see trying to save something from the early 1900's though.


I saw that; why did they do that? To "freshen it up" or hide some aging?


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## daArch

I paint paint said:


> That's a gorgeous room Arch. You're right the house is right for it--ornate crown, period sconces, etc.
> 
> You either hang a huge framed hand painted canvas on that wall. Or you wrap the room in canvas and have an artist come in with an easel. Art patrons seem to be able to have it any way they want. :yes:


Are you familiar with Zuber scenics?

http://www.zuber.fr/ancien_site/english/menu_photo.html


They are hand blocked panels that when put up, create a scenic mural. Perhaps the most viewed one is "Views of North America" in the White House diplomatic reception room:










and no, this is not a simple install like an HD supplied mural of dolphins from Environmental Graphics


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## I paint paint

Underdog said:


> Before I installed it I found the studs for them but I don't do so many extraneous courtesies anymore. I've had 'em not stop until I refuse to put shelves in their laundry rooms before. Don't know how we get the reputation as handy men sometimes.
> 
> I don't mind the extras so long as I know about them sooner rather than later. And so long as I will be getting paid to do all the various extras. It is usually more of an issue for me lifting the heavy, rare, irreplaceable object all by myself and feeling confident enough the hair plaster/lathe will hold it...
> 
> Hate those paper work shoes. I tend to line the floors with paper or plastic before the drop cloths to give them the assurance that dust won't leak through the weave of the canvas drops. If they ask me to remove my shoes, I tell them that it's against my religion.


Against my religion too! But I have some clients I actually like to preemptively impress, so I've come to slipping into a second pair of shoes as I enter their home. When the first thing they see in the morning is me taking extra steps to protect/respect their home, I rarely get the micromanaging nag hovering over me the rest of the day. Plus, they don't have to know that my "inside pair" has as many outdoor miles on 'em as they do indoor miles…


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## Underdog

I paint paint said:


> I saw that; why did they do that? To "freshen it up" or hide some aging?


 I don't know what it's like in your area but around here the young couples have taken a real disliking to anything "old fashioned". A lot of them are turned off on wallpaper and only remove.

Luckily my client base is in the older neighborhoods so I stay busy.


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## daArch

Underdog said:


> I don't know what it's like in your area but around here the young couples have taken a real disliking to anything "old fashioned". A lot of them are turned off on wallpaper and only remove.
> 
> Luckily my client base is in the older neighborhoods so I stay busy.


the HIP and decorative savvy kids are putting up a LOT of wallpaper back here in the civilized world


tell those unhipsters to get with the program, it's NOT your grandmother's wallpaper anymore, wallpaper is trending.


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## Underdog

daArch said:


> the HIP and decorative savvy kids are putting up a LOT of wallpaper back here in the civilized world
> 
> 
> tell those unhipsters to get with the program, it's NOT your grandmother's wallpaper anymore, wallpaper is trending.


 
To think of it, the unhipsters are mostly thinking of when they'll sell it, and they sure don't go through designers.


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## Underdog

Great pictures Bill, that one looks like the White House.


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## Underdog

Against my religion too! But I have some clients I actually like to preemptively impress, so I've come to slipping into a second pair of shoes as I enter their [COLOR=blue !important][COLOR=blue !important]home[/COLOR][/COLOR]. When the first thing they see in the morning is me taking extra steps to protect/respect their home, I rarely get the micromanaging nag hovering over me the rest of the day. Plus, they don't have to know that my "inside pair" has as many outdoor miles on 'em as they do indoor miles… 


Nah, I talk big but I carry spare shoes too, for rainy days especially.
First impressions... I've seen that strategy work too.


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## chrisn

daArch said:


> the HIP and decorative savvy kids are putting up a LOT of wallpaper back here in the civilized world
> 
> 
> tell those unhipsters to get with the program, it's NOT your grandmother's wallpaper anymore, wallpaper is trending.


I guess Maryland ,Penna ,and certainly WV are just UN civilizes for sure


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## daArch

chrisn said:


> I guess Maryland ,Penna ,and certainly WV are just UN civilizes for sure


Isn't Philly still in PA ? From what I gather, the Atlantic coastal plain is seeing the upsurge in wallcoverings, whereas the piedmont is has not had the resurgance.


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## I paint paint

Underdog said:


> To think of it, *the unhipsters are mostly thinking of when they'll sell it*, and they sure don't go through designers.


They have been told repeatedly--in Home/Garden magazine, on DIY tv channel, and at ACE paint counter--to go completely neutral when selling a home.

Any wall covering with any personality whatsoever; get rid of that.

That is how uncreative realtors stage a home for sale. Never challenge a market full of unimaginative home buyers.


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## CApainter

If the mural was circa 1970's, then that other one can't be any more up to date than maybe early 80's.


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## daArch

I paint paint said:


> They have been told repeatedly--in Home/Garden magazine, on DIY tv channel, and at ACE paint counter--to go completely neutral when selling a home.
> 
> Any wall covering with any personality whatsoever; get rid of that.
> 
> That is how uncreative realtors stage a home for sale. Never challenge a market full of unimaginative home buyers.



this is totally bogus advice. All people will do with bland neutral decorative choice is paint or paper over it. NO ONE likes beige.

They are going to redecorate ANYWAY, why waste YOUR good money on stripping and painting? 

Realtors have their heads up their asses. Some of our best friends spent a small fortune repainting their home on the advice of their agents. Within two years the new owners painted it a different color.

When we put my parents house up for sale, the f-ing incompetent stupid know-it-all realtor had us spend THOUSANDS of $$$ on "curb appeal", even though we all knew most likely it was a tear down. Sure enough, within three months it's an empty lot.

It's one thing to make the house look like it wasn't neglected for decades, but it's totally bogus advice to strip and repaint to get rid of personal taste.


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## chrisn

daArch said:


> Isn't Philly still in PA ? From what I gather, the Atlantic coastal plain is seeing the upsurge in wallcoverings, whereas the piedmont is has not had the resurgance.


I meant south central PA, Philly is just a little to far away


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## daArch

chrisn said:


> I meant south central PA, Philly is just a little to far away


I think it's safe to say in "more rural" areas (not to say H-town is exceptionally rural - but it ain't no urban center), wallpaper is less used, whereas in the more economically robust urban areas you will see more of it used. And dare I say that in those urban areas that are also hot educational centers, you will find it even more.

That's just my unscientific observation from listening to our compatriots.


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## chrisn

daArch said:


> I think it's safe to say in "more rural" areas (not to say H-town is exceptionally rural - but it ain't no urban center), wallpaper is less used, whereas in the more economically robust urban areas you will see more of it used. And dare I say that in those urban areas that are also hot educational centers, you will find it even more.
> 
> That's just my unscientific observation from listening to our compatriots.


can not and will not argue that:thumbsup:


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## I paint paint

daArch said:


> this is totally bogus advice. All people will do with bland neutral decorative choice is paint or paper over it. NO ONE likes beige.
> 
> They are going to redecorate ANYWAY, why waste YOUR good money on stripping and painting?
> 
> Realtors have their heads up their asses. Some of our best friends spent a small fortune repainting their home on the advice of their agents. Within two years the new owners painted it a different color.
> 
> When we put my parents house up for sale, the f-ing incompetent stupid know-it-all realtor had us spend THOUSANDS of $$$ on "curb appeal", even though we all knew most likely it was a tear down. Sure enough, within three months it's an empty lot.
> 
> It's one thing to make the house look like it wasn't neglected for decades, but it's totally bogus advice to strip and repaint to get rid of personal taste.


I agree with you. I think realtors are so willing to suggest their clients spend money this way because it is their client's money. I also think realtors and HOs like having a home on the market for as little time as possible. Less work for the realtor showing it, plus the realtor will get paid quicker. And the obvious reasons HOs want it sold sooner rather than later.

And for whatever reason, people in this field have a very low opinion of the general home buying population. They think people are turned off by small things like a frivolous design choice that can easily be switched once the home turns over. I am able to easily imagine what a room would look like after it is repainted to my liking. I guess others are completely irrational with limited imaginations?

But I am conflicted about all this since I get a lot of work from realtors, from both their buyers and sellers. And all day long as I prep a condo by repainting it white with beige accents I think to myself, I wish I was on a job I could be more proud of. I would feel worse if the checks bounced or if the flat white wasn't so forgiving to apply.


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## CApainter

I paint paint said:


> I agree with you. I think realtors are so willing to suggest their clients spend money this way because it is their client's money. I also think realtors and HOs like having a home on the market for as little time as possible. Less work for the realtor showing it, plus the realtor will get paid quicker. And the obvious reasons HOs want it sold sooner rather than later.
> 
> And for whatever reason, people in this field have a very low opinion of the general home buying population. They think people are turned off by small things like a frivolous design choice that can easily be switched once the home turns over. I am able to easily imagine what a room would look like after it is repainted to my liking. I guess others are completely irrational with limited imaginations?
> 
> But I am conflicted about all this since I get a lot of work from realtors, from both their buyers and sellers. And all day long as I prep a condo by repainting it white with beige accents I think to myself, I wish I was on a job I could be more proud of. I would feel worse if the checks bounced or if the flat white wasn't so forgiving to apply.


I think the excessive attention placed on home re-sales, in terms of refurbishing and staging, is a a risidual affect from the housing boom, when resales were finding it difficult to compete with newer model homes. I'm not sure it's as important in these leaner times. But habits are hard to break.


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## I paint paint

CApainter said:


> I think the excessive attention placed on home re-sales, in terms of refurbishing and staging, is a a risidual affect from the housing boom, when resales were finding it difficult to compete with newer model homes. I'm not sure it's as important in these leaner times. *But habits are hard to break.*


I get the sense time will prove you correct.

If some influential voices were to begin questioning the wisdom of pre-sale makeovers, I'd bet we'd see the staging industrial complex rear it's ugly, collective head to fight tooth and nail to keep it's bloated marketshare.

Which I feel conflicted about, being a painter who is regularly hired in advance of an open house.


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## CApainter

...Take for instance California, where there was apparently a vast amount of land to build new infrastructures on in support of the sprawling virgin subdivisions popping up everywhere. Of course, these 3,000 square foot by $300K homes made it more appealing to buyers, given the loose lending practices at the time, then the $900K by 1,500 sf circa 1950's home, forty five miles away and towards the lucrative Bay Area penninsula.

Trying to justify the sale of a $900K dinky dump, required some real attention back in the boom times. Location... Location... Location didn't mean squat compared to the three car garage, pool, and the luxuriousness of a new model home, at a third of the cost. Even if it meant a constant kick in the gnads every time you commuted home.


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## I paint paint

CApainter said:


> ...Take for instance California, where there was apparently a vast amount of land to build new infrastructures on in support of the sprawling virgin subdivisions popping up everywhere. Of course, these 3,000 square foot by $300K homes made it more appealing to buyers, given the loose lending practices at the time, then the $900K by 1,500 sf circa 1950's home, forty five miles away and towards the lucrative Bay Area penninsula.
> 
> Trying to justify the sale of a $900K dinky dump, required some real attention back in the boom times. Location... Location... Location didn't mean squat compared to the three car garage, pool, and the luxuriousness of a new model home, at a third of the cost. Even if it meant a constant kick in the gnads every time you commuted home.


Good point.

(As for me, I'll take the small old place closer to the bay any day. Those sterile exurbs ain't for me.)


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## CApainter

I paint paint said:


> Good point.
> 
> (As for me, I'll take the small old place closer to the bay any day. Those sterile exurbs ain't for me.)


The parking is good though.


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## I paint paint

CApainter said:


> The parking is good though.


Of course it is.

But isn't life more exciting when you can get mugged in the Mission at midnight? 

no


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## CApainter

I paint paint said:


> Of course it is.
> 
> But isn't life more exciting when you can get mugged in the Mission at midnight?
> 
> no


True. The burbs have a way of crushing any stimulus. Even if that happens to be terror.


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## DrakeB

Dunno, I honestly do see a fair amount of value in repainting prior to selling a home, especially when your previous coatings are in bad shape or your color choices across the whole home are questionable. Housing market or not, the reality is that impressions have a lasting and noticeable impact on people's perceptions. The state of the housing market isn't particularly relevant in this case; you're still trying to sell your home, and someone (in theory) is still trying to buy your home. If anything, it just makes first impressions even more important than it was before since people are much more choosy and stingy with the current market.

Sure, there are home buyers out there who have foresight and can see beyond peeling wallpaper or ugly paint. They exist among us, and I'm sure you lot (being paint professionals) are among that number. They are the minority, though.

The fact is, having a more presentable home, even if it's in the most shallow and meaningless way, has a significant impact on both the speed at which your home sells and the price you can fetch for it. The vast majority of people are shallow and utterly clueless when it comes to which parts of a home give it "value". That's why a new coat of paint can be the difference between 6 months on the market and 1, or getting 270k or 300k.


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## CApainter

Woodford said:


> Dunno, I honestly do see a fair amount of value in repainting prior to selling a home, especially when your previous coatings are in bad shape or your color choices across the whole home are questionable. Housing market or not, the reality is that impressions have a lasting and noticeable impact on people's perceptions. The state of the housing market isn't particularly relevant in this case; you're still trying to sell your home, and someone (in theory) is still trying to buy your home. If anything, it just makes first impressions even more important than it was before since people are much more choosy and stingy with the current market.
> 
> Sure, there are home buyers out there who have foresight and can see beyond peeling wallpaper or ugly paint. They exist among us, and I'm sure you lot (being paint professionals) are among that number. They are the minority, though.
> 
> The fact is, having a more presentable home, even if it's in the most shallow and meaningless way, has a significant impact on both the speed at which your home sells and the price you can fetch for it. The vast majority of people are shallow and utterly clueless when it comes to which parts of a home give it "value". That's why a new coat of paint can be the difference between 6 months on the market and 1, or getting 270k or 300k.


It clearly helps to sell a house when presented with a new paint job. However, there have been arguments to the contrary, and with good reason. For example, very little cost will be allocated towards paint preparation when those costs can be applied towards other bling that a realtor may choose, like landscape for instance. 

And for those homes that have been neglected for years in terms of exterior paint protection, a blow and go can conceal issues that will haunt the new buyers. Re painting, for a quick turn around, can be looked at as a deceptive sales tactic.

It would be better, in many cases, for the buyer to be presented with a painting credit. Especially, if they intend to own the house for some time.


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## DrakeB

Definitely a boon for the seller rather than the buyer in almost all cases, I definitely agree with that.

Also agree that a "painting credit" would be a great idea in terms of overall cost reduction for the process; it just wouldn't help as much with the selling process for most people. I'd always rather sell to someone with some vision, but they're a bit harder to find


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## DrakeB

Also, somewhat more on topic, my aunt and uncle have an older house with a big mural on one of the walls. It's got a bunch of people on a small hillside lounging/enjoying the sun (as I recall, haven't seen it in quite a long time) and a lot of women carrying parasols. I wish I had a picture of it; I'm curious whether it's unique or some kind of a pattern. It looks like it was painted directly on the wall I think, but I also remember it being beautifully done. It fits in the house perfectly; old style partially brick ranch house with a huge screen porch. Lots of gorgeous trim.


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## paintball head

Georges Seurat, A Sunday Afternoon on the Island of La Grande Jatte, 1884-1885, oil on canvas,The Art Institute of Chicago, Illinois


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## I paint paint

*Keep thread alive!*



Underdog said:


> At least I think that's what the young'uns call it.
> 
> Every once in a while I'm responsible for covering up a part of anthropological decorating history.
> I used to install these back in the seventies and you can't help but notice when it's the 2015's.


Well here we are, it's Sunday anew.

Any of you paper hangers got an old gem to dig out of the archives?


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## daArch

paintball head said:


> Georges Seurat, A Sunday Afternoon on the Island of La Grande Jatte, 1884-1885, oil on canvas,The Art Institute of Chicago, Illinois


paint over it, if you get up close enough, it just looks like a bunch of different colored dots. :whistling2:


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## DrakeB

I think that may, indeed, be the one. If I ever get to see my family again, I'll let you guys know. That's impressive, though, paintball head.


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## Underdog

paintball head said:


> Georges Seurat, A Sunday Afternoon on the Island of La Grande Jatte, 1884-1885, oil on canvas,The Art Institute of Chicago, Illinois


Your post reminded me of a mural in a house I worked in.
It was cute, they didn't want me to take a picture of it head on.
Wish I knew the history of the artist.


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## I paint paint

Underdog said:


> Your post reminded me of a mural in a house I worked in.
> It was cute, *they didn't want me to take a picture of it head on.*
> Wish I knew the history of the artist.


Were they concerned about flash exposure like the Mona Lisa at the Louvre?


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## Underdog

I paint paint said:


> Were they concerned about flash exposure like the Mona Lisa at the Louvre?


Actually it was that they didn't want it reproduced without their knowledge or permission.


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## DrakeB

It is a really nice looking mural. The more I'm seeing of these, the more I think I actually like the idea of them in some houses.


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## SemiproJohn

The more I look at that mural, the more I like the wood in which it is encapsulated.


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## Underdog

Woodford said:


> It is a really nice looking mural. The more I'm seeing of these, the more I think I actually like the idea of them in some houses.


 
We have some nice historic neighborhoods in San Antonio. They fit.




SemiproJohn said:


> The more I look at that mural, the more I like the wood in which it is encapsulated.


 Ha


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## daArch

Looks like The Shire


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## Underdog

It's funny, when you talk about a subject, all of a sudden you see it everywhere.
Like calling out the color blue, then look around the room and you see all the blue where you didn't before.

Turns out, another job this week with these old timey murals, foil no less. 
All the way around the room and no repeats...


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## chrisn

Underdog said:


> It's funny, when you talk about a subject, all of a sudden you see it everywhere.
> Like calling out the color blue, then look around the room and you see all the blue where you didn't before.
> 
> Turns out, another job this week with these old timey murals, foil no less.
> All the way around the room and no repeats...


hopefully you will NEVER have to strip that


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## I paint paint

Underdog said:


> It's funny, when you talk about a subject, all of a sudden you see it everywhere.
> Like calling out the color blue, then look around the room and you see all the blue where you didn't before.
> 
> Turns out, another job this week with these old timey murals, foil no less.
> All the way around the room and no repeats...


The Sunday thread is alive. Yay!

Color me conservative, but I like murals papered to my walls or I like framed paintings on my walls.

When you do both, I mean how busy and chaotic do you want your ambiance to be everyday?


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## Underdog

chrisn said:


> hopefully you will NEVER have to strip that


 This family is very loyal to this area. They haven't lived there that long but I anticipate it will stay until after my retirement.



I paint paint said:


> The Sunday thread is alive. Yay!
> 
> Color me conservative, but I like murals papered to my walls or I like framed paintings on my walls.
> 
> When you do both, I mean how busy and chaotic do you want your ambiance to be everyday?


 
Good points. I guess when you make up your mind, your mind tends to be very forgiving. 
Have you seen this thread?

http://www.painttalk.com/f8/hand-painted-wallcovering-26888/


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## DrakeB

That's awesome, I hope they never take it down. Though I agree- pictures don't work with it.


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