# SW Waterborne Alkyd



## damianjwalker (Feb 17, 2009)

Has anyone used this product?
http://www.sherwin-williams.com/pro...egory=interior_paint_coatings/paint_coatings/

My rep comp'ed me 15 gallons to try on the trim, door, and cabinets on a NC house we did. He sold me on the idea of it being as strong and smooth as an oil but with water clean up.

Well it does nothing good, it has to be the worst trim and cabinet paint we have ever used. It is very difficult to spray as it has no body to it and takes too long to tack up on smooth surfaces. The paint literally would fall off the doors 15 mins after it was sprayed. We had to go around with foam rollers putting it back on the doors.

Then it sands worse than any latex paint, basically unsandable, plus it is very soft after cured.

I just wanted ya'll to know my experience with it, if you were thinking of giving it a try.


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## alan (Feb 17, 2010)

got one gal. for free and used it on some doors and casings.

it sucked to brush and lay off.way to much drag.

left it at the Ho's house thanks but no thanks ....give me oil/latex or death.

to bad the rep didn't give you free labor to fix the mess. glta


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

damianjwalker said:


> Has anyone used this product?
> http://www.sherwin-williams.com/pro...egory=interior_paint_coatings/paint_coatings/
> 
> My rep comp'ed me 15 gallons to try on the trim, door, and cabinets on a NC house we did. He sold me on the idea of it being as strong and smooth as an oil but with water clean up.
> ...


I have not used the one you posted but sounds like the problems you have are the sames ones the regular 200 has. Sounds exactly like 200 semi gloss. No hold, No coverage, runs, remains tacky like cheap latex paint on cabinet shelves. Doors stick to the jambs even a month after it was painted. Its funny when you read the .pdf file on 200 because the actual results are nothing AT ALL like it promises. I should review 200, I know guys shooting tons of this stuff every week on trim and doors. Looks bad even when shot with 2 coats, you can see right through it. 

It says "Set the Professional Standard For Superior Quality" really? by whos standards?

"Superior Durability, Superior Hide, Superior Application Ease" Are you serious!?

Wait it gets worse... it says "The Number One Choice In Professional Coatings".

WOW! That has got to be the biggest stretch Ive seen in marketing in a long time.


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## damianjwalker (Feb 17, 2009)

JP

You nailed it right on the head, it is exactly how it acts, though I have never put regular latex 200 on trim before


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

Why would you try a product you never used on something like kitchen cabinets? I would never want to gamble like that, let me grab a old shutter out of the garage, or some extra crown I have laying around and go from there.

Pat


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## damianjwalker (Feb 17, 2009)

your right about that!

I guess I am a little too trusting of my rep and store manager, they both were giving it such rave reviews and I guess I was a little greedy, the idea of saving $300 on paint meant more money in my pocket, but if the cabinets fail then it will come bite me in the butt.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

damianjwalker said:


> your right about that!
> 
> I guess I am a little too trusting of my rep and store manager, they both were giving it such rave reviews and I guess I was a little greedy, the idea of saving $300 on paint meant more money in my pocket, but if the cabinets fail then it will come bite me in the butt.


I know what you mean, those freaking reps can be pretty convincing sometimes. I hope you were able to salvage those cabinets.

Pat


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

PatsPainting said:


> Why would you try a product you never used on something like kitchen cabinets? I would never want to gamble like that, let me grab a old shutter out of the garage, or some extra crown I have laying around and go from there.
> 
> Pat


Pat, I've been in his shoes many times... the reps talk up product like the stuff will jump out of the can and do the project for you... just open the lid, it will do the rest. I've challenged paint stores to show me how your product does what you advertise it will and never do they take up the offer. 

One contractor I know was able to get them out and he swapped labels on the can and made fools of them when they pointed to the "actual" product that DID work while they put down their own not knowing it was theirs.


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## Metro M & L (Jul 21, 2009)

Reps don't know $hit about painting. They're corporate salesmen which means they will push whatever product with whatever claim their district or regional manager has instructed them to push to meet whatever target they have set. If they don't meet quota they don't bonus but it doesn't cost them a dime of their bonus money if the coating they sold you fails. The sale is still on the books as far as they are concerned.

Had a thirty minute conversation with a rep about elastomeric concrete floor sealant. That's awesome, but I don't do epoxy floor coatings that need crack chasing. It was just the product he was supposed to push that day.

Reps might know some paint chemistry and theory but at the end of the day I can get whatever knowledge a rep has to share with me off the back of the can, and it only takes two minutes.


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## TDTD (Jun 10, 2010)

damianjwalker said:


> Has anyone used this product?
> http://www.sherwin-williams.com/pro...egory=interior_paint_coatings/paint_coatings/
> 
> My rep comp'ed me 15 gallons to try on the trim, door, and cabinets on a NC house we did. He sold me on the idea of it being as strong and smooth as an oil but with water clean up.
> ...


 
My rep tried to sell me some the other day because he was out of the Pre Cat Epoxy I wanted. Said it would perform well for my application. He showed me a sample of a color he had mixed up for another guy. I put my thumbnail into it and it felt soft. I told him it felt kinda soft and he said that's just because it's on a piece of cardboard. Didn't buy it and went with the Latex All Surface Enamel 0 that I've used before - great product.

Thanks for the heads up DJW!

Cheers,


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## damianjwalker (Feb 17, 2009)

TDTD, you did the right thing. I was told it would dry as hard as epoxy.

Luckily the job is for a "lower end" builder who is a framer not a painter and doesn't know the difference between "hard and soft" paint. We had to add felt pads to the cabinet doors to kept them from sticking and any cleaner harsher than simple green takes the paint right off!

I know I should have tried it out first, but I did not (another lesson learned)

Atleast this might save others on this board from making the same mistake


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

I wonder if BM's "advance" is similar- I heard from the paint store that it is a longer dry to recoat and also cure than reg oil. What's the point?


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## graypaint (Aug 28, 2010)

BrushJockey said:


> I wonder if BM's "advance" is similar- I heard from the paint store that it is a longer dry to recoat and also cure than reg oil. What's the point?


I used B Moore's Advance a couple weeks ago & had similar problems. It seemed to flow out nice from the brush, but it sagged worse than a rookie putting on thin oil. Plus, the can said Low Lustre, but it was a full-on semi-gloss. Not impressed. I prefer Satin Impervo oil, and a close second is Satin Impervo Waterborne. Forget Advance.


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## BrushstrokesInc. (Jun 15, 2009)

I used SW ProClassic wb alkyd on some cabinets after I primed with problock. I had no problems with the Proclassic, it sprayed nice and hardened up too.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Not everything that is "free" is good for your business. Cant count the number of freebies I've turned down over the years because I felt it wouldnt be a good fit for my business. Not to say there havent been a few I passed on that I later tried and liked.


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## mickey (Jul 7, 2009)

*pro classic spray yes, brush no !*



Brushstrokes said:


> I used SW ProClassic wb alkyd on some cabinets after I primed with problock. I had no problems with the Proclassic, it sprayed nice and hardened up too.


I agree pro classic looks great and hardens up nicely when sprayed,just don t attempt to brush or roll it, its like a completely different product if you do.


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## lakesidepainting (Sep 29, 2010)

yea and ive even had to clean up brushes with mineral spirits kinda defeats the purpose


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## Kade (Sep 26, 2010)

Did any of your sales reps or store managers tell you that you must spray this using a fine finish tip? If you sprayed without one, that was more than likely the problem.


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## Painting Away (Mar 1, 2010)

I have used the waterborne alykd and I have sprayed and used with brush and as long as you use a extender when brushing it worked great for me. I have alway used proclassic oil and when they introduced the waterborne I decided to try - it dragged with the brush reeeeeaaaal bad but as soon as I added the extender(not the nasty exender in the orange bottle) it worked great. Of course the shine is not like the oil but wil do the trick when you need a product that will need the second coat asap.

By the way don't be stingy on the extender


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

I think this thread is a repeat. I gave my ten cents on another thread about it but here is my mini-recap. 
I like the waterborne alkyd, i like the 200 over the proclassic though. It definitely has a learning curve, but it dries hard as nails for me. Its not epoxy but a good alternative to oil. Faster than oil, slower than latex. Clean-up is a pisser, but sandability of oil without shredding under the heat of a palm sander is a plus. (Then again, don't make runs and this isn't an issue.) 

Get used to it boys, cause oil is on its way out. But if you never use oil, whats it matter anyways?


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## tntpainting (Apr 3, 2008)

proclassic is good but it goes on like elmers glue w/out using an extender havent really tryed the 200 thinki will next time i need it


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## St. Louis Painter (Jun 22, 2013)

*Never this particular product, but...*

I have used the Proclassic and was pleasantly surprised. At first the surprise was rather unpleasant since I asked for the traditional oil based Proclassic alkyd. For some reason that is still a mystery, they sold me two gallons of the waterborne. 
The error only became apparent once we proceeded to spread the product with two fairly new ox hair brushes. Unfortunately, the job was under a huge time constraint and the trim was the last thing on the agenda in this particular room. So I swallowed my disgust, and having already primed all the trim due to the homeowner being a heavy smoker, we went with the waterborne. 

I was not crazy about the coverage, though we were able to second coat much sooner than with an oil. The brush strokes were very minimal, as it turned out. Had some difficulty with sags and runs appearing after 10 minutes of application, but the brushed out fine with minimal frustration. We used very soft bristle brushes.. the absolute softest we had. 

The final product was a hit with the homeowner. So we may go this route again under the right circumstances. A word to the wise... as with any waterborne finish, previously oil based coatings need to be primed with a bond coat for full adhesion. The fact that it is alkyds apparently means nothing when applying over previously oil based finishes.

As a post script, my local Sherwin Williams replaced our two ox hair brushes at no cost.


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