# 1st commercial job...burger king



## richmondpainting

So I've done local repaints but nothing like burger king..that's national... just looking to see if anyone has tips..experience or advice?

It seems pretty straight forward but I don't want to screw this up because this could be the big jump into commercial I'm looking for and a life changer....

The general I got it from only does resturaunts and obviously already told us there is basically more to come if we do good.....I also heard there doing some chillis remodels too...he mentioned while we were talking......


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## TJ Paint

I did a burger king exterior. I worked for the owner of that store, not a contractor. 

I did work for a maintenance company doing a starbucks. All communication was via phone and email. 

Did a pizza hut and worked with a general on site and it went pretty smooth. Got a signed contract signed before starting. Paid decent. 

Not sure what you're wondering.


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## chrisn

Do not consume any of the food.


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## Paradigmzz

Paint it and dont overspray cars. If you are not done in two days your taking to long. Its just another job bro. If you want to chase nationals, they pay alrightish, but the cost is extreme.


Your like a truck driver. Your always on the road.


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## richmondpainting

i figured it would be pretty simple....I dont like the idea of the road considering i have a two year old but ive wanted the commercial deal for a while so i told the wife she will have to deal with cuse i know this is where the money is and the only way to advance.....residential only excites me in the winter time when i cant paint outside and i get bored once it gets nice out...lol


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## ewingpainting.net

hope you like working nights.


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## richmondpainting

Money is money.... commercial sure pays more than residential....


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## wje

I got offered a gig doing pharmacy remodels all across Canada. We did 3 and then pulled the plug. They had no idea what they needed done, way too many people involved, and I chased money on the last one for 6 months. Luckily the 3 i did were in my service area. I didn't have to travel. If I wanted to jump on board, we would have started out in Ontario, and then slowly worked West.. No thank you.


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## TJ Paint

richmondpainting said:


> Money is money.... commercial sure pays more than residential....


It depends.


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## ProWallGuy

richmondpainting said:


> Money is money.... commercial sure pays more than residential....


:no:

If so you are chasing the wrong repaint clientele.


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## chrisn

richmondpainting said:


> Money is money.... commercial sure pays more than residential....


 
really ?


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## richmondpainting

chrisn said:


> really ?


Yeaaaa.....


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## Paradigmzz

Hey richmond arent you the same one who said you make like a 1000 on a friday and happy subbing out on a Saturday for 600? Moneys money right? Correct me if im wrong but if 600-1000 is your daily take home and you are down for working 6-7 days, what exactly are you needing to clear? Your in wisconsin. The cost of living isnt that high. Im all for new experiences, try it out and see if it fits for you. Just realize the grass is not always greener on the other side. Sometimes it is. But not always. FWIW.


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## NEPS.US

chrisn said:


> really ?


It's his first commercial job and he already knows that it pays better. Who let this guy in the super secret club?


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## richmondpainting

Paradigmzz said:


> Hey richmond arent you the same one who said you make like a 1000 on a friday and happy subbing out on a Saturday for 600? Moneys money right? Correct me if im wrong but if 600-1000 is your daily take home and you are down for working 6-7 days, what exactly are you needing to clear? Your in wisconsin. The cost of living isnt that high. Im all for new experiences, try it out and see if it fits for you. Just realize the grass is not always greener on the other side. Sometimes it is. But not always. FWIW.


i dont have a number to clear... the more the better... I dont know how commercial doesnt pay more?... i Can get $35/ hour residential $25 all day... commercial i shoot for $60/hr which i hear is cheap.. Try telling a home owner there gunna pay you $60 an hour to paint there living room( i know u wouldnt charge hourly) im just saying....... I dont think anyone is getting rich of residential...but you cant tell me some of you guys on here dont do for Example a warehouse...for $91,000 and pocket $38,000 in a month... and buy a brand new truck cash....thats the kind of money im talking about...


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## chrisn

richmondpainting said:


> i dont have a number to clear... the more the better... I dont know how commercial doesnt pay more?... i Can get $35/ hour residential $25 all day... commercial i shoot for $60/hr which i hear is cheap.. Try telling a home owner there gunna pay you $60 an hour to paint there living room( i know u wouldnt charge hourly) im just saying....... I dont think anyone is getting rich of residential...but you cant tell me some of you guys on here dont do for Example a warehouse...for $91,000 and pocket $38,000 in a month... and buy a brand new truck cash....thats the kind of money im talking about...


 

 good luck with that:laughing:

You said this BQ was you're first commercial job, that make you an expert?:whistling2:
and as to making more $ doing commercial than residential, well, thats just , well, just.................:confused1:


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## richmondpainting

Thanks ....


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## mudbone

richmondpainting said:


> So I've done local repaints but nothing like burger king..that's national... just looking to see if anyone has tips..experience or advice?
> 
> It seems pretty straight forward but I don't want to screw this up because this could be the big jump into commercial I'm looking for and a life changer....
> 
> The general I got it from only does resturaunts and obviously already told us there is basically more to come if we do good.....I also heard there doing some chillis remodels too...he mentioned while we were talking......


 Grease is the word!


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## richmondpainting

mudbone said:


> Grease is the word!


what are you saying?


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## mudbone

richmondpainting said:


> i dont have a number to clear... the more the better... I dont know how commercial doesnt pay more?... i Can get $35/ hour residential $25 all day... commercial i shoot for $60/hr which i hear is cheap.. Try telling a home owner there gunna pay you $60 an hour to paint there living room( i know u wouldnt charge hourly) im just saying....... I dont think anyone is getting rich of residential...but you cant tell me some of you guys on here dont do for Example a warehouse...for $91,000 and pocket $38,000 in a month... and buy a brand new truck cash....thats the kind of money im talking about...


 Quit chasing the dollar and let it chase you.


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## richmondpainting

mudbone said:


> Quit chasing the dollar and let it chase you.


I'm not the type to sit around and wait.......I go after what I want and domnt stop till I get....my motor/tag line... however u want to put it ..
"Something Bigger" nothing is ever good enough...just keep on going....


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## Gough

I guess I'm a little confused, since your website talks about your company's "years of experience providing top quality commercial interior painting services for commercial...."

Sounds as if you're either trolling your potential clients, or us.


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## Bender

Yikes:surrender:


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## daArch

Gough said:


> I guess I'm a little confused, since your website talks about your company's "years of experience providing top quality commercial interior painting services for commercial...."
> 
> Sounds as if you're either trolling your potential clients, or us.


Really! now WHO would embellish the facts on their website? :whistling2: :whistling2:


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## richmondpainting

Bender said:


> Yikes:surrender:


Gotta portray what you wanna be..too change...


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## richmondpainting

daArch said:


> Really! now WHO would embellish the facts on their website? :whistling2: :whistling2:


Gotta do what you gotta do....


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## Bender

richmondpainting said:


> I'm not the type to sit around and wait.......I go after what I want and domnt stop till I get....my motor/tag line... however u want to put it ..
> "Something Bigger" nothing is ever good enough...just keep on going....


Sounds like a 50¢ song.


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## Gough

richmondpainting said:


> Gotta portray what you wanna be..too change...


Sounds like I got my answer.


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## richmondpainting

Gough said:


> Sounds like I got my answer.


So is it believable? If you didn't read this thread...would u believe the page? I'm dissapointed in the pictures used..which will be changed soon...I've done local commercial repaints....small factory ext ..nail salon..couple gyms ..hair salon...offices..just never big franchises for a gc before...

I hope it looks presentable to people and contractors...I'm on the first page for commercial and industrial painting in my ten listed cities plus a few more.....I'm real happy with seo I have going right now...can only get better...


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## chrisn

richmondpainting said:


> Gotta portray what you wanna be..too change...


 
or just outright lie


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## chrisn

richmondpainting;381941[COLOR=red said:


> ]So is it believable?[/COLOR] If you didn't read this thread...would u believe the page? I'm dissapointed in the pictures used..which will be changed soon...I've done local commercial repaints....small factory ext ..nail salon..couple gyms ..hair salon...offices..just never big franchises for a gc before...
> 
> I hope it looks presentable to people and contractors...I'm on the first page for commercial and industrial painting in my ten listed cities plus a few more.....I'm real happy with seo I have going right now...can only get better...


 
nope:no:


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## chrisn

richmondpainting said:


> Gotta do what you gotta do....


 
being deceitful is always a qualifying characteristic:blink:


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## richmondpainting

chrisn said:


> being deceitful is always a qualifying characteristic:blink:


i think your just saying that considering that you have seen my posts.....


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## TJ Paint

richmondpainting said:


> i think your just saying that considering that you have seen my posts.....


Oh, I see. You're only a liar if you get caught. 

If you get caught with your pants down, it's on you, not the ethical police.


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## richmondpainting

TJ Paint said:


> Oh, I see. You're only a liar if you get caught.
> 
> If you get caught with your pants down, it's on you, not the ethical police.


Nope... not even then...... just a contractor looking for a chance to make it big.....


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## TJ Paint

richmondpainting said:


> Nope... not even then...... just a contractor looking for a chance to make it big.....


Good luck, take care.


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## ewingpainting.net

richmondpainting said:


> Nope... not even then...... just a contractor looking for a chance to make it big.....


what is your definition of making it big


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## NEPS.US

ewingpainting.net said:


> what is your definition of making it big


Klaw


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## richmondpainting

ewingpainting.net said:


> what is your definition of making it big


lmfao....You really wanna know?

multiple trucks and diffrent companies...office w/ shop

multiple personal cars...ridiculous house

My daughter is spoiled and envied by every one in town

maybe an auditorium at her high school named after our family

vacations..campers..atvs..jet skis...

and taking over my territory so every one know my name even once im gone...

most importantly for my daughter to be able to walk into a ridiculous 6 figure job after high school and never really have to work a day in her life...just collect......

haha ...season tickets to wrigley for the cubs games.....

do you like my Picture? thats a good start...


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## ewingpainting.net

richmondpainting said:


> lmfao....You really wanna know?
> 
> multiple trucks and diffrent companies...office w/ shop
> 
> multiple personal cars...ridiculous house
> 
> My daughter is spoiled and envied by every one in town
> 
> maybe an auditorium at her high school named after our family
> 
> vacations..campers..atvs..jet skis...
> 
> and taking over my territory so every one know my name even once im gone...
> 
> most importantly for my daughter to be able to walk into a ridiculous 6 figure job after high school and never really have to work a day in her life...just collect......
> 
> haha ...season tickets to wrigley for the cubs games.....
> 
> do you like my Picture? thats a good start...


if you think painting burger kings is going to create that dreamy world, be prepared to be disappointed


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## richmondpainting

ewingpainting.net said:


> if you think painting burger kings is going to create that dreamy world, be prepared to be disappointed


its a good start for a residential repaint company....


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## Rbriggs82

richmondpainting said:


> lmfao....You really wanna know?
> 
> multiple trucks and diffrent companies...office w/ shop
> 
> multiple personal cars...ridiculous house
> 
> My daughter is spoiled and envied by every one in town
> 
> maybe an auditorium at her high school named after our family
> 
> vacations..campers..atvs..jet skis...
> 
> and taking over my territory so every one know my name even once im gone...
> 
> most importantly for my daughter to be able to walk into a ridiculous 6 figure job after high school and never really have to work a day in her life...just collect......
> 
> haha ...season tickets to wrigley for the cubs games.....
> 
> do you like my Picture? thats a good start...


Right on................... .....


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## cdaniels

Nothing wrong with having high goals.My main goals when I first went out on my own were not having to worry about paying my light bill and buying my son a new pair of shoes when need be.I have achieved those now on to bigger and better.


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## richmondpainting

cdaniels said:


> Nothing wrong with having high goals.My main goals when I first went out on my own were not having to worry about paying my light bill and buying my son a new pair of shoes when need be.I have achieved those now on to bigger and better.


Im a firm believer in never settling.....just keep progressing no matter what


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## ewingpainting.net

then there's reality


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## chrisn

ewingpainting.net said:


> then there's reality


 


or delusional thinking


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## richmondpainting

chrisn said:


> or delusional thinking


you have to put the work and time in.....not 5 minutes passes on any given day or even holiday i dont think about my company or painting.....thats why you see me with so many new idea type of posts.....


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## ewingpainting.net

I'm not trying to be a bummer here but those burger king jobs are chasing money jobs (aka chasing the carrot) 




> chase the carrot
> attempting to reach the unreachable, in the old days a carrot was tied to a stick in front of a wagon's mule / stubborn horse to make them step forward and walk ahead . . . they were never able to reach the carrot.


 www.urbandictionary.com/#define?term=chase the carrot

I'm sure others on the board can confirm, this isn't exactly a new idear here. 

good luck


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## cdaniels

ewingpainting.net said:


> then there's reality


Well of couse you have to have achievable goals....just bout Jake a new pair of sneakers today..


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## NEPS.US

richmondpainting said:


> lmfao....You really wanna know?
> 
> multiple trucks and diffrent companies...office w/ shop
> 
> multiple personal cars...ridiculous house
> 
> My daughter is spoiled and envied by every one in town
> 
> maybe an auditorium at her high school named after our family
> 
> vacations..campers..atvs..jet skis...
> 
> and taking over my territory so every one know my name even once im gone...
> 
> most importantly for my daughter to be able to walk into a ridiculous 6 figure job after high school and never really have to work a day in her life...just collect......
> 
> haha ...season tickets to wrigley for the cubs games.....
> 
> do you like my Picture? thats a good start...


What about a key to the city and a holiday named after you?


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## NEPS.US

ewingpainting.net said:


> if you think painting burger kings is going to create that dreamy world, be prepared to be disappointed


I used to plow a bunch of burger kings in the winter. I'd be lucky if I saw a check by August.


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## Schmidt & Co.

NEPS.US said:


> What about a key to the city and a holiday named after you?


It's overrated. :whistling2:


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## richmondpainting

NEPS.US said:


> What about a key to the city and a holiday named after you?


sounds awesome


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## Painter-Aaron

NEPS.US said:


> What about a key to the city and a holiday named after you?


If that ever happened to a painting company they would have all the jobs they wanted and then some


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## NEPS.US

Painter-Aaron said:


> If that ever happened to a painting company they would have all the jobs they wanted and then some


Where you from Aaron?


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## wje

Richmond, you are a member in a forum with some of the more successful, most well run, and knowlegable veteran painting contractors in North America and some from Europe and other parts of the world. I am gonna go out on a limb and speak for everyone here and give you a rality check. You are a paint contractor. Nothing more, nothing less. With your drive and work ethic, I am confident you will be able to create a healthy finacial situation for your family and yourself. I am sure you will probably be able to pay your daughters way through school if you are wise with your pennies, and maybe take family vacations a couple times a year. 

It is not out of reach to make 6 figures a year as a paint contractor. It is not out of reach to do millions in sales. It is not out of reach to have the biggest paint company in town, or even in your surrounding areas. Now what is out of reach is to want to be a painting celebrity. We are paint contractors. Remember that. People will only pay so much for the service we offer. To even think for a minute you will be doing so many paint jobs that you can create an additional $100 000 to give your your daughter after high school each year for doing nothing is a pipe dream. I know it is good to aim high, but when you aim that high you start to tip over and fall backwards. You have to understand a lot of the guys here have been doing this their whole lives and have done very well financially, but they will tell you that the lifestyle you describe is very unrealistic.

In closing, I will say you can live very comfortably if you have a well run painting operation, but to go in the direction you are amped about going I will guarantee your relationships will suffer, your health will suffer and in the long run your happiness will be a distant memory. 

If you need to see it to believe it, go for it but do not come back here in 3 years and expect us not to tell yea we told you so.


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## RH

If you really want to make it big, go into politics - just like all those house painters that went on to become congressmen, senators, and United States Presidents. :whistling2:


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## ProWallGuy

ewingpainting.net said:


> if you think painting burger kings is going to create that dreamy world, be prepared to be disappointed














richmondpainting said:


> you have to put the work and time in.....not 5 minutes passes on any given day or even holiday i dont think about my company or painting.....thats why you see me with so many new idea type of posts.....


I can't wait for in a year or two your thread titled "how do I deal with the stress and burnout, and why did my wife leave me?"

See below:



wje said:


> In closing, I will say you can live very comfortably if you have a well run painting operation, but to go *in the direction you are amped about going I will guarantee your relationships will suffer, your health will suffer and in the long run your happiness will be a distant memory*.
> 
> If you need to see it to believe it, go for it but do not come back here in 3 years and expect us not to tell yea we told you so.


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## richmondpainting

researchhound said:


> If you really want to make it big, go into politics - just like all those house painters that went on to become congressmen, senators, and United States Presidents. :whistling2:


LMAo thats another idea of mine haha.... i wanna run foir alderman eventually... im just starting to get interested in politics....i figure worse case scenario..i get to plaster the town with yard signs and banners with mine name....i lose....its okay now my name is even bigger...obviously i wouldnt do it till i had the knowledge to be capable


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## richmondpainting

wje said:


> Richmond, you are a member in a forum with some of the more successful, most well run, and knowlegable veteran painting contractors in North America and some from Europe and other parts of the world. I am gonna go out on a limb and speak for everyone here and give you a rality check. You are a paint contractor. Nothing more, nothing less. With your drive and work ethic, I am confident you will be able to create a healthy finacial situation for your family and yourself. I am sure you will probably be able to pay your daughters way through school if you are wise with your pennies, and maybe take family vacations a couple times a year.
> 
> It is not out of reach to make 6 figures a year as a paint contractor. It is not out of reach to do millions in sales. It is not out of reach to have the biggest paint company in town, or even in your surrounding areas. Now what is out of reach is to want to be a painting celebrity. We are paint contractors. Remember that. People will only pay so much for the service we offer. To even think for a minute you will be doing so many paint jobs that you can create an additional $100 000 to give your your daughter after high school each year for doing nothing is a pipe dream. I know it is good to aim high, but when you aim that high you start to tip over and fall backwards. You have to understand a lot of the guys here have been doing this their whole lives and have done very well financially, but they will tell you that the lifestyle you describe is very unrealistic.
> 
> In closing, I will say you can live very comfortably if you have a well run painting operation, but to go in the direction you are amped about going I will guarantee your relationships will suffer, your health will suffer and in the long run your happiness will be a distant memory.
> 
> If you need to see it to believe it, go for it but do not come back here in 3 years and expect us not to tell yea we told you so.


ive come to the conclusion i will work forever..i enjoy it.. ive realized i will probably die unhappy because nothing is good enough and im never satisfied...its sad but true as for relationship i get that it is tough...but i wont let anything stop me....im not trying to be a celebrrity just welll know locally.. i want a bar...resturaunts.... gas station..anything to invest in and make money..maybe a nail salon for the wife...who knows.


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## ProWallGuy

This whole thread reminds me of this:

_Bob Hodges_: [_to his new partner_] There's two bulls standing on top of a mountain. The younger one says to the older one: "Hey pop, let's say we run down there and **** one of them cows". The older one says: "No son. Lets walk down and **** 'em all".


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## Painter-Aaron

NEPS.US said:


> Where you from Aaron?


Victoria bc


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## richmondpainting

ProWallGuy said:


> This whole thread reminds me of this:
> 
> _Bob Hodges_: [_to his new partner_] There's two bulls standing on top of a mountain. The younger one says to the older one: "Hey pop, let's say we run down there and **** one of them cows". The older one says: "No son. Lets walk down and **** 'em all".


atleast it keeps going...unlike all these boring deasd threads around here lol...

Honestly i dont mean to offend anyone...but why are there so many small companies around here? I view painting as a way to take it to the limit and be the biggest and best my finances, skills and motivation will allow....it seems like alot of guys would be just better off working for some one else...why have your own company..if your just gunna treat it like a job ? and not a company....

Seriously... im being sincere

i get the 'burn out" and head aches and stress but that comes with the territory....


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## Rbriggs82

....


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## NEPS.US

Rbriggs82 said:


> The sky is the limit... until you fall to your death...


Hey Richmond - why don't you start a threat in the photo section to display your work and show is what type of work you do. 

Thanks!


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## richmondpainting




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## richmondpainting

NEPS.US said:


> Hey Richmond - why don't you start a threat in the photo section to display your work and show is what type of work you do.
> 
> Thanks!


ill try...what do you wanna see? anything in particular?


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## NEPS.US

richmondpainting said:


> ill try...what do you wanna see? anything in particular?


Show us a gallery of interior and exterior shots.


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## richmondpainting

NEPS.US said:


> Show us a gallery of interior and exterior shots.


nothing will upload.....idk i tryed all kinds of diffirent pictures


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## Bender

richmondpainting said:


> LMAo thats another idea of mine haha.... i wanna run foir alderman eventually... im just starting to get interested in politics....i figure worse case scenario..i get to plaster the town with yard signs and banners with mine name....i lose....its okay now my name is even bigger...obviously i wouldnt do it till i had the knowledge to be capable


I hear the Vatican is hiring:whistling2:


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## Steve Richards

Bender said:


> I hear the Vatican is hiring:whistling2:


 I saw a headline the other day..something like: "Pope makes some new rules on his way out".

I was hoping one of them was "Retired popes are not required to be celibate"

(it wasn't)

Sorry for the slight derail..let's get back to Burger King


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## RH

Bender said:


> I hear the Vatican is hiring:whistling2:


Nah - not enough prestige and hard to paint wearing the big hat.


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## mudbone

wje said:


> Richmond, you are a member in a forum with some of the more successful, most well run, and knowlegable veteran painting contractors in North America and some from Europe and other parts of the world. I am gonna go out on a limb and speak for everyone here and give you a rality check. You are a paint contractor. Nothing more, nothing less. With your drive and work ethic, I am confident you will be able to create a healthy finacial situation for your family and yourself. I am sure you will probably be able to pay your daughters way through school if you are wise with your pennies, and maybe take family vacations a couple times a year.
> 
> It is not out of reach to make 6 figures a year as a paint contractor. It is not out of reach to do millions in sales. It is not out of reach to have the biggest paint company in town, or even in your surrounding areas. Now what is out of reach is to want to be a painting celebrity. We are paint contractors. Remember that. People will only pay so much for the service we offer. To even think for a minute you will be doing so many paint jobs that you can create an additional $100 000 to give your your daughter after high school each year for doing nothing is a pipe dream. I know it is good to aim high, but when you aim that high you start to tip over and fall backwards. You have to understand a lot of the guys here have been doing this their whole lives and have done very well financially, but they will tell you that the lifestyle you describe is very unrealistic.
> 
> In closing, I will say you can live very comfortably if you have a well run painting operation, but to go in the direction you are amped about going I will guarantee your relationships will suffer, your health will suffer and in the long run your happiness will be a distant memory.
> 
> If you need to see it to believe it, go for it but do not come back here in 3 years and expect us not to tell yea we told you so.


 Pride always comes before a fall!


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## 1camper

richmondpainting said:


> View attachment 14941


I don't know how old you are but you are unlikely to get much older if you don't buy some longer ladders.


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## richmondpainting

1camper said:


> I don't know how old you are but you are unlikely to get much older if you don't buy some longer ladders.


we have bigger but they werent on that side of that house....that guy can jump from 40 to 40 like its nothing...they call me over to take pictures.. its like a compettion to see whos crazier....dangerous yes but it saves time and money....im not saying something bad cant happen but my guys are ridiculous with heights......my first two guys set the bar so high..i have a hard time giving raises to others who cant compete...cuse as you see thats my expectation of "good with heights"


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## NEPS.US

richmondpainting said:


> we have bigger but they werent on that side of that house....that guy can jump from 40 to 40 like its nothing...they call me over to take pictures.. its like a compettion to see whos crazier....dangerous yes but it saves time and money....im not saying something bad cant happen but my guys are ridiculous with heights......my first two guys set the bar so high..i have a hard time giving raises to others who cant compete...cuse as you see thats my expectation of "good with heights"


How does Certa Pro feel about OHSA?


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## richmondpainting

NEPS.US said:


> How does Certa Pro feel about OHSA?


as long as you bring them the check they could careless....

check to them and no complaining phone calls....all that matters


plus ur a sub...it all falls on you.....


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## Gough

richmondpainting said:


> we have bigger but they werent on that side of that house....that guy can jump from 40 to 40 like its nothing...they call me over to take pictures.. its like a compettion to see whos crazier....dangerous yes but it saves time and money....im not saying something bad cant happen but my guys are ridiculous with heights......my first two guys set the bar so high..i have a hard time giving raises to others who cant compete...cuse as you see thats my expectation of "good with heights"


Just curious, how do you describe that in your site-specific fall protection plan??


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## richmondpainting

Gough said:


> Just curious, how do you describe that in your site-specific fall protection plan??


In what ? Fall protection plan?...never used a harness or tie down other than in a lift...

i have trained an ex iron worker and ex house building framer who have been with me since day one 8 years ago 

and a roofer whos been with us for 3 years now....

i wont lie i had a guy fall off a cedar roof backwards onto a deck and break his arm...pretty scary and i wasnt even there......but turned out ok


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## NEPS.US

richmondpainting said:


> In what ? Fall protection plan?...never used a harness or tie down other than in a lift...
> 
> i have trained an ex iron worker and ex house building framer who have been with me since day one 8 years ago
> 
> and a roofer whos been with us for 3 years now....
> 
> i wont lie i had a guy fall off a cedar roof backwards onto a deck and break his arm...pretty scary and i wasnt even there......but turned out ok


You can kiss that key to the city goodbye real quick! 

Ever seen a OSHA inspector stop by a residential site? Your pictures alone would be a couple hundred grand in fines. 

Say good night Alderman.


----------



## RH

NEPS.US said:


> You can kiss that key to the city goodbye real quick!
> 
> Ever seen a OSHA inspector stop by a residential site? Your pictures alone would be a couple hundred grand in fines.
> 
> Say good night Alderman.


I also wonder what your insurance company would think about them. You do have insurance don't you?


----------



## Gough

This might be handy for you...or your competitors:

OSHA
Milwaukee Area Office
310 West Wisconsin Avenue, Room 1180
Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53203
(414) 297-3315
(414) 297-4299 FAX


----------



## richmondpainting

researchhound said:


> I also wonder what your insurance company would think about them. You do have insurance don't you?


and comp....of course...do we use it?...never.....


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## NEPS.US

NEPS.US said:


> You can kiss that key to the city goodbye real quick!
> 
> Ever seen a OSHA inspector stop by a residential site? Your pictures alone would be a couple hundred grand in fines.
> 
> Say good night Alderman.


http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/fallprotection/index.html

You can request tons of free information.


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## Gough

NEPS.US said:


> You can kiss that key to the city goodbye real quick!
> 
> Ever seen a OSHA inspector stop by a residential site? Your pictures alone would be a couple hundred grand in fines.
> 
> Say good night Alderman.


An OSHA visit is even more likely once you start working commercial.


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## richmondpainting

Gough said:


> An OSHA visit is even more likely once you start working commercial.


 commercial job i was on years back...You can tell me if this is typical...glad u brought this up...

6 floor building....

Electricians tells us...osha is here...the fore man on the job i was on
(not my job)

foreman starts cleaning up...locks job box... calls owners in the process...owner says leave...

words osha is there trickles thru the building...every one packs up....

we walk out side.. at leasst 30-40 tradesmen from all trades sitting on there lunch boxes on the corner....with tools....smoking ...hanging out

only one left on six floors is the the rep from the general and osha rep....

i think guys went back after osha left b ut we were sent home for the day...

what do u think? does that happen other places?


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## richmondpainting

NEPS.US said:


> You can kiss that key to the city goodbye real quick!
> 
> Ever seen a OSHA inspector stop by a residential site? Your pictures alone would be a couple hundred grand in fines.
> 
> Say good night Alderman.


never osha.....city for lead but thats a whole new story lol


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## ProWallGuy

After perusing your job pics on your facebook page, I don't think you have to worry about osha.

But if I was you I'd worry about the day one of your hotshot ladder monkeys takes a fall and becomes paralyzed or worse from it, and they/their family sues the pants off you. Reckon that will slow your roll for a bit.

You want to be a big dog, you better play the game right. No one gets to the top, and stays there by taking shortcuts and running foolish set-ups. Slow, steady, planned growth, and working systems and using best practices will benefit you in the long run. Chasing every job, and busting them out like you are doing an 8-ball at breakfast and lunch will cause you to flame out real fast. Good luck with yourself.


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## richmondpainting

ProWallGuy said:


> After perusing your job pics on your facebook page, I don't think you have to worry about osha.
> 
> But if I was you I'd worry about the day one of your hotshot ladder monkeys takes a fall and becomes paralyzed or worse from it, and they/their family sues the pants off you. Reckon that will slow your roll for a bit.
> 
> You want to be a big dog, you better play the game right. No one gets to the top, and stays there by taking shortcuts and running foolish set-ups. Slow, steady, planned growth, and working systems and using best practices will benefit you in the long run. Chasing every job, and busting them out like you are doing an 8-ball at breakfast and lunch will cause you to flame out real fast. Good luck with yourself.


what dp you think of my pics? i tryed posting in the pic forum...it wouldnt down load


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## Gough

richmondpainting said:


> what dp you think of my pics? i tryed posting in the pic forum...it wouldnt down load


http://www.despair.com/mistakes.html


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## ProWallGuy

richmondpainting said:


> what dp you think of my pics? i tryed posting in the pic forum...it wouldnt down load


I saw multiple unsafe ladder set-ups. And some guy hanging off the edge of a roof. Stuff like that will catch up to you someday, in a very bad way.


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## richmondpainting

ProWallGuy said:


> I saw multiple unsafe ladder set-ups. And some guy hanging off the edge of a roof. Stuff like that will catch up to you someday, in a very bad way.


i get that... face book is really rough and unsensored for me and my websites i keep that kinda stuff off of it...


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## ProWallGuy

That stuff comes up in google searches. Not saying I've never done risky 5hit to pull off a job, but I sure as hell don't take pictures of it and post them on the web.


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## richmondpainting

as far as i know...osha has bigger stuff to worry about...never heard of them on residential sites...at least around here.... maybe at commercial repaints with lifts or in roofing...a roofer has called on other contractors... every contractor hates the low life...one hell of a saleman tho..


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## MikeCalifornia

Gough said:


> http://www.despair.com/mistakes.html


I thought this more appropriate:

http://www.despair.com/shoot-for-the-moon.html


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## Gough

MikeCalifornia said:


> I thought this more appropriate:
> 
> http://www.despair.com/shoot-for-the-moon.html


A family member worked at a place with a large motivational poster of an eagle in the foyer. One April 1st, she plastered this one over it:

http://www.despair.com/limitations.html


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## chrisn

ProWallGuy said:


> That stuff comes up in google searches. Not saying I've never done risky 5hit to pull off a job, but I sure as hell don't take pictures of it and post them on the web.


 
I don't think logic is going to work here:no:


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## 1camper

richmondpainting said:


> we have bigger but they werent on that side of that house....that guy can jump from 40 to 40 like its nothing...they call me over to take pictures.. its like a compettion to see whos crazier....dangerous yes but it saves time and money....im not saying something bad cant happen but my guys are ridiculous with heights......my first two guys set the bar so high..i have a hard time giving raises to others who cant compete...cuse as you see thats my expectation of "good with heights"


Posting that pic to show us you are a professional has got to be a paint talk all time epic fail...but I haven't been around here long.

Saves money! Who do you think your talking to? Using that ladder without a stabilizer and without a spray wand cuts your productivity by a third everytime someone goes up. In other words, there is 30% more surface you can't reach because you are not using the proper tools. Any pro will tell you that.

As a pro who has done the kind of work depicted in that photo, for 30 years, I'm at a loss as to what is worse.

A) Taking the picture 
B) Posting the picture to show other contractors
C) or defending it.

I am sincerely glad to see you working at BK, might just save sombody's life.


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## richmondpainting

1camper said:


> Posting that pic to show us you are a professional has got to be a paint talk all time epic fail...but I haven't been around here long.
> 
> Saves money! Who do you think your talking to? Using that ladder without a stabilizer and without a spray wand cuts your productivity by a third everytime someone goes up. In other words, there is 30% more surface you can't reach because you are not using the proper tools. Any pro will tell you that.
> 
> As a pro who has done the kind of work depicted in that photo, for 30 years, I'm at a loss as to what is worse.
> 
> A) Taking the picture
> B) Posting the picture to show other contractors
> C) or defending it.
> 
> I am sincerely glad to see you working at BK, might just save sombody's life.


I dont see any of it as a bad thing... as for a laddder stabilizer i dont see how that is going to increase things? maybe make things a bit less scary or easier on ur back....i use them for windows and wide soffits but thats about it...

as for the spray wand i have been curuois but seems like they would be a pain in the ass...when you dont need them and ur taking them on and off...but it like to hear your take on that....

as for the heights thing...idk man... we are younger and do pride our self on doing things other companies cant do and doing them faster.....it is dangerous and foolish but thats just how we came up i guess...the less ladder moves the more money you make and the better painter you are....

ive never once denied it being dumb....its just the mentality i guess...the guy who does the dangerous stuff and does it the fastest ...gets paid the most....point blank.....


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## Repaint Florida

Perfect example of what has happened to the painting trade over the years

Richmond
What every happened to pride in your craft? 
what about quality workmanship? 
What about building a relationship with your customer? 
Do you really feel putting your workers life in danger is worth a few more dollars?
Do you really think slapping a coat of paint on something makes you a "painter"

In all your post the main subject has been money, you never mentioned quality, repeat business or the safety for your workers

Why don't you post all this on your website? I mean you stated you believe in everything you posted, don't you think your customers have the right to know that your only in it for the money, that your not worried about your workers getting hurt or doing something the right way ... that you only care about money

Do you know this is a public website??? *and can be read by anyone?* Do you think your helping homeowners understand our hard work and skill that has taken us year to learn

how many customers do you think would hire you after reading your post?
You have a very long & hard road a head of you and maybe you should consider listening to some of us old guys, we're here to help ... i personley could give a rats a**
it's your choice but i think you would get so much more out of pt if you understood most here are professional painters, we've learned from years of hard work and we're willing to help ... slow down, take a deep breath and enjoy what we have to offer & we're never to old to learn our self but so far your only teaching how not to do things

I can tell you from experience that by offering quality work, working closely with the homeowners & taking pride in my work, my trade and my company has feed my family & my workers family for years

How before i go GOOD LUCK it's your life & your company but PLEASE don't get your worker hurt over money. You talk about your family what about your workers family?
How would you like to call someone wife and tell them their husband is not coming home tonight or maybe will never be able to work again. 

That their daughter may have to push her father in a wheel chair because you wanted to make a dollar.

i'll make sure to show my customers your post 

i am sure they'll be happy to pay my fee for the professional service i offer ... it's your choice homeowners ... hiring a professional is the smartest move you can make


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## scottjr

richmondpainting said:


> the less ladder moves the more money you make and the better painter you are....
> 
> ive never once denied it being dumb....its just the mentality i guess...the guy who does the dangerous stuff and does it the fastest ...gets paid the most....point blank.....


The amount of money you make doesn't make you a better painter. Point blank.

I used to do crazy **** when I was younger but now that I am running a business and a FAMILY I think its best to practice safety.


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## 1camper

All youngsters do crazy stuff, that's why they need leadership to work safely, effectively and efficiently. That's how you make money. Following a tried and true procedure and making smart decisions about incorporating new procedure to operate more efficiently.

Like Rod Stewart said "every picture tells a story...don't it?" That one says amateur on many levels. Not trying to pick a fight or make a target out of you...it's just the low hanging fruit of the day. Learn from it.


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## richmondpainting

You know i dont sit here and talk crazy to everybody...i get your theory but dont understand why? I dont tell you guys..... my views over and over and over....i make suggestions...Hey, you dont want to turn down work...well hire more guys..train more people...drop back on jobs.....i dont sit and keep telling everybody...ur lazy ..work the the weekends.....im here to learn just like everyone else and network..if you like me fine if not...ur not hurting my feelings...i enjoy paint talk because..i do have an ego...my wife, family , workers and the small circle of friends know it....unlike in mainstream social media and my blogs, website ect... i cant be real..here i can...may not be the best thing..but i enjoy it....soo everyone can run there company how they want and thats there right.......ill give you my opinion but i wont preach and i expect the same.....

but i do love a good challenge every once and a while lol.....


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## ProWallGuy

This thread makes me crave a cocktail. Hmm, what should I have. Oh, this should do...


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## Repaint Florida

how many full time painters do you have?


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## richmondpainting

7-10 -march 15th (or soon as snow is gone) - Dec 1st

but if commercial kicks up ill have around 15 maybe....

plus you forgot i have a small..very slow...roofing company lol its only the second year and its way diffirent than painting...


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## richmondpainting

dont act like you guys hate me.....lol.....if it wasnt for me you would be sitting around talking about "whats the best primer" like you did last month.......lol...wheres the fun in that?


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## Repaint Florida

let me ask you, do you do this unsafe work because you under bid the job?


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## richmondpainting

No...we dont purposely do it....its just how my guy were trained...no not even trained... they would rather just reach out...do something dumb..than take the time too change the set up or what ever the case may be... i dont tell them to do it..its just there nature...there young and compettive...its like whos the craziest...does it worry me...yes....do i yell at them...some what...as long as they get the job done and dont hurt them selves im okay......some one is going to get hurt...or all ready did... and that wasnt so much stupidity..we just didnt have alot of experience with cedar roofs..one guy stepped away from the ladder that was leaning on the roof and ended up on the deck...pretty scary...


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## Repaint Florida

have your ever collected or know someone who collected a wc claim?


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## richmondpainting

no...sounds horrible....my guy delt with it himself...no claim....was off for about 6-8 weeks came back right away and was on a ladder...with 2-3 being back....it was a new guy...


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## Repaint Florida

Let me start by saying i am not trying to slam you, i think alot of us were the same when we were young and starting out

But do you know ( at least in Florida ) if your injured wc pays 66 2/3 percent of your average weekly wage, for no more than a maximum of 104 weeks

your average weekly wage is calculated using wages earned 13 weeks prior to your injury

How many of your workers can afford to live on that amount?

PS
stay with me on this i have a point i am trying to show you


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## richmondpainting

some live on much less considering no ones worked since november 25th other than odd and ends here or there...but i get what your saying tho


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## 1camper

richmondpainting said:


> No...we dont purposely do it....its just how my guy were trained...no not even trained... they would rather just reach out...do something dumb..than take the time too change the set up or what ever the case may be... i dont tell them to do it..its just there nature...there young and compettive...its like whos the craziest...does it worry me...yes....do i yell at them...some what...as long as they get the job done and dont hurt them selves im okay......some one is going to get hurt...or all ready did... and that wasnt so much stupidity..we just didnt have alot of experience with cedar roofs..one guy stepped away from the ladder that was leaning on the roof and ended up on the deck...pretty scary...


A ladder stabilizer probably would've kept that from happening. They're inexpensive, there is no reason not to use them. It's what professionals do. Not using them drives up the price of doing business for all of us. Even if we choose not to have employees. That's why you get grief.

You're the boss right? Take responsibility. That's your job. You sound like a spectator.


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## richmondpainting

kept what from happening?ohhhh noo he stepped off of the ladder which was on the roof.... just reached out too much...what drives up price?

im not a spectator....i just dont do much on ladders...when theres 5-10 guys on one job...why would the owner be on a ladder....i prep and direct traffic......takes alot to organize and direct 10 guys from sun up till sun down...


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## NEPS.US

Repaint Florida said:


> let me ask you, do you do this unsafe work because you under bid the job?


He is used to working for 50% of the contracted price from Certa Pro. Of course he has to jump thru his ahole to make money. He had no concept of quality or service.


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## 1camper

Accidents drive the price of insurance up. You got lucky with that one. No claim, count your blessings, learn from your mistakes. There should be no aspect of the job that you are not familiar with, your the boss. Sounds like they direct themselves.


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## Repaint Florida

richmondpainting said:


> some live on much less considering no ones worked since november 25th other than odd and ends here or there...but i get what your saying tho


 OK now my next point ... not very much money right?
But did you know if an injured worker could show neglect like a defective ladder, scaffolding, ect they can then sue the manufacturer

Same goes for a company that DOES NOT ENFORCE OSHA rules or practices unsafe working condition

why do you think a gc will make you follow the rules? do you really think you have a chance of getting a commercial job when you operate this way? 

if you allow your workers to work in unsafe conditions your liable for injuries and can lose everything you own ... it's called neglect ... ask any lawyer or watch people's court ... judge judy would eat your lunch

Think of it this was, say your painting a burger king and everyone but your painters are following osha rules, wearing hard hats, grounded cords, tool box safety meeting with sign in sheet but your painters

then 1 of your worker get hurts and osha, your insurance company, the gc get involved ... what do you think your chances are of showing them your a professional company and can you back it up? can you show you enforce the rules?

and don't fool yourself even if a worker get hurt on a residential job you'll have the same problems

osha may not visit your jobsite but it's it like robbing a bank .. the police aren't there when you rob it but as soon as you do they will be crawling up your a**


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## richmondpainting

NEPS.US said:


> He is used to working for 50% of the contracted price from Certa Pro. Of course he has to jump thru his ahole to make money. He had no concept of quality or service.


I will paint a dog house one day and the white house the next...all i ask is to be paid when im done....


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## scottjr

richmondpainting said:


> I will paint a dog house one day and the white house the next...all i ask is to be paid when im done....


Just curious if you get much repeat business?


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## Repaint Florida

richmondpainting said:


> I will paint a dog house one day and the white house the next...all i ask is to be paid when im done....


 .50 cents on the dollar is not being "paid"

go tell your power company you'll give them .50 on the dollar for your bill


Why would you settle for that?


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## Ramsden Painting

Four letters. OSHA

Sent from my iPad using PaintTalk


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## richmondpainting

Repaint Florida said:


> .50 cents on the dollar is not being "paid"
> 
> go tell your power company you'll give them .50 on the dollar for your bill
> 
> 
> Why would you settle for that?


.50 for what ?


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## richmondpainting

Repaint Florida said:


> OK now my next point ... not very much money right?
> But did you know if an injured worker could show neglect like a defective ladder, scaffolding, ect they can then sue the manufacturer
> 
> Same goes for a company that DOES NOT ENFORCE OSHA rules or practices unsafe working condition
> 
> why do you think a gc will make you follow the rules? do you really think you have a chance of getting a commercial job when you operate this way?
> 
> if you allow your workers to work in unsafe conditions your liable for injuries and can lose everything you own ... it's called neglect ... ask any lawyer or watch people's court ... judge judy would eat your
> Think of it this was, say your painting a burger king and everyone but your painters are following osha rules, wearing hard hats, grounded cords, tool box safety meeting with sign in sheet but your painters
> 
> then 1 of your worker get hurts and osha, your insurance company, the gc get involved ... what do you think your chances are of showing them your a professional company and can you back it up? can you show you enforce the rules?
> 
> and don't fool yourself even if a worker get hurt on a residential job you'll have the same problems
> 
> osha may not visit your jobsite but it's it like robbing a bank .. the police aren't there when you rob it but as soon as you do they will be crawling up your a**



On a side note...I think I will grab some hard hats this week...just I case.... maybe look into an osha class....its going to be rough considering when I start this burger king I will be at a home show.... but I'm sure my guys will do fine....


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## Repaint Florida

richmond
do you know what www stands for?


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## richmondpainting

Repaint Florida said:


> richmond
> do you know what www stands for?


guess not?


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## Blakelpd5

You say it was scary when that guy fell and broke his arm... 

With ladder practices like this, it's only a matter of time before something worse happens. Think how scary it will be when a guy falls a breaks his back. 

I fell from 10' last summer and broke my back. No, I'm not old, with brittle bones, It's how I landed. You've been warned by enough people on here, that when it does happen, sympathy for you will be low. This is serious ****!

That guy that does fall, he's out of work for a few months. Was probably living month to month, and now his family will be in jeopardy of loosing everything. 

Yes, that guy should have been more careful, but if the boss isn't going to make them stop, then who is?


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## richmondpainting

Just thought I would check back in with everyone.....

Soooo the first day of the interior went great. The dry wallers are holding us back, we could have finished the inside in one day but we will be back on Monday to finish. The exterior will be super easy and be done in one day as soon as we hit 35 degrees outside....and we also were the most serious, professional looking guys there...matching shirts...hard hats...logo on the vehicle....alot of low end...maybe first time subs like my self...just not as organized and clean cut and hard working.....

Looks like there may be more work too come from the gc.


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## scottjr

richmondpainting said:


> Just thought I would check back in with everyone.....
> 
> Soooo the first day of the interior went great. The dry wallers are holding us back, we could have finished the inside in one day but we will be back on Monday to finish. The exterior will be super easy and be done in one day as soon as we hit 35 degrees outside....and we also were the most serious, professional looking guys there...matching shirts...hard hats...logo on the vehicle....alot of low end...maybe first time subs like my self...just not as organized and clean cut and hard working.....
> 
> Looks like there may be more work too come from the gc.


Good to here Richmond.


----------



## RH

Glad it went well for ya.


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## mudbone

richmondpainting said:


> Just thought I would check back in with everyone.....
> 
> Soooo the first day of the interior went great. The dry wallers are holding us back, we could have finished the inside in one day but we will be back on Monday to finish. The exterior will be super easy and be done in one day as soon as we hit 35 degrees outside....and we also were the most serious, professional looking guys there...matching shirts...hard hats...logo on the vehicle....alot of low end...maybe first time subs like my self...just not as organized and clean cut and hard working.....
> 
> Looks like there may be more work too come from the gc.


 gc?-grill cook:blink:


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## sendit6

NEPS.US said:


> He is used to working for 50% of the contracted price from Certa Pro. Of course he has to jump thru his ahole to make money. He had no concept of quality or service.


 
Neps, the statement above that "he had to jump through his a**hole to make money" may be one of the funniest things I've ever heard.


----------



## richmondpainting

sendit6 said:


> Neps, the statement above that "he had to jump through his a**hole to make money" may be one of the funniest things I've ever heard.


funny...funny...guys....my goal is working 7 days per week along with all of my guys....works well...but sucks at times


----------



## TJ Paint

richmondpainting said:


> .my goal is working 7 days per week a


Sounds like your goal is to be a slave.

No thanks. 

I used to think like that before I had a kid.


----------



## richmondpainting

TJ Paint said:


> Sounds like your goal is to be a slave.
> 
> No thanks.
> 
> I used to think like that before I had a kid.


I just want to make it to the top faster...than the 4 day a week painter...

I figure, I can play later....


----------



## TJ Paint

richmondpainting said:


> I just want to make it to the top faster...than the 4 day a week painter...
> 
> *I figure, I can play later....*


I'm not talking about playing, I'm talking about being a parent.


----------



## mudbone

TJ Paint said:


> I'm not talking about playing, I'm talking about being a parent.


 What is it to man if he gains the whole world but forfeits his soul!:yes:


----------



## Paradigmzz

mudbone said:


> What is it to man if he gains the whole world but forfeits his soul!:yes:


Amen brodda.


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## chrisn

Painting @ 35 would not interest me


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## Sully

Well this was an interesting read...


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## A+HomeWork

I just read this thread from beginning to "end" and I think this guy is pulling your legs! He's laughing his butt off about how everyone is responding in disbelief at his business practices. 

I find most all of his comments to be total rubbish.

Dude, you are either good at BS, or you the stupidest poster on PT.


----------



## richmondpainting

A+HomeWork said:


> I just read this thread from beginning to "end" and I think this guy is pulling your legs! He's laughing his butt off about how everyone is responding in disbelief at his business practices.
> 
> I find most all of his comments to be total rubbish.
> 
> Dude, you are either good at BS, or you the stupidest poster on PT.


Explain....


----------



## richmondpainting

richmondpainting said:


> Explain....


Don't worry...I won't take offense yet....lol...


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## richmondpainting

richmondpainting said:


> Explain....


Well....I'd love to hear this.......


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## richmondpainting

All done...I still have to go back for some final pictures ....but here is what I have for now


----------

