# What is a level 4 drywall finish?



## sweet3 (Aug 20, 2017)

Hi guys I'm kind of new and that's why I'm here to learn. I don't know how else to ask this, but what is a level 4 drywall finish? One of my friends is looking to have his basement done level 4 finish. Could someone explain what a level 4 finish is?

Thank you.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

sweet3 said:


> Hi guys I'm kind of new and that's why I'm here to learn. I don't know how else to ask this, but what is a level 4 drywall finish? One of my friends is looking to have his basement done level 4 finish. Could someone explain what a level 4 finish is?
> 
> Thank you.


Smooth and with a few imperfections basically and ready for texture or flat paint.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjANegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw1SV01sim2ixK_JQ1xLUOUH

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## PaPainter724 (Apr 22, 2016)

Level 1: taped joints
Level 2: single coat over taped joints
level 3: two coats over taped joints
level 4: three coats
Level 5 would be almost a skim coat or you can spray it

each additional level should have the size of the tape joint floated out farther than the previous. For example, if you tape with a 4 inch knife, your first coat would be with a 6 inch, then 8 inch, then 10 inch, then 12 inch, etc.

Although level 5 should be industry standard, far more often you'll find that 3 and 4 are industry standard even with higher sheen paints. Level 3 is pretty much commercial level drywall finish


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## kmp (Jan 30, 2011)

Level 4 should not be considered paint ready for any paint esp.any paint with a sheen. It is ready for texture or wall covering and that's it in my opinion. I hate smooth walls and won't bid them because of the unknown factors in drywall install and finish quality. I am on a project now that was spec'ed and bid level 4 by all the trades and the owner will not accept anything less than level 5+. Has not really cost me money yet but the dry wall contractor is taking it in the ass.


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## PaPainter724 (Apr 22, 2016)

kmp said:


> Level 4 should not be considered paint ready for any paint esp.any paint with a sheen. It is ready for texture or wall covering and that's it in my opinion. I hate smooth walls and won't bid them because of the unknown factors in drywall install and finish quality. I am on a project now that was spec'ed and bid level 4 by all the trades and the owner will not accept anything less than level 5+. Has not really cost me money yet but the dry wall contractor is taking it in the ass.


If the owner put it out for level 4 finish, then I don't see how the sub is losing money? Once it's in writing, it's set in stone unless you do a change order, in which case the owner should be paying more. 

And I rarely run into level 5 finishes unless I do them myself. Most owners don't realize there's that level of standards and generally accept two coats as standard. Especially on commercial work.


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## kmp (Jan 30, 2011)

The owner, a large utility, has a building manager that has been given too moch power and the owners only listen to him and he will not approve anything and doesn't understand, even with pdca and other standards in front of him what level 4 is. Uses an 8' level on walls, framing square on outside corner bead corners, turns off lights and uses a led spotlight with his nose 6" from the wall on 18 foot smooth walls and wants them perfect. He controls the payments and draws so nobody is happy. I have been doing commercial work since 1987 and never had a job or a guy like this. Yelling matches from the site trailer.


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## PaPainter724 (Apr 22, 2016)

Lol, he can be a picky as he wants; they approved a level 4 finish. I'd have my lawyer on the phone the second I was on the jobsite. I've dealt with people like that before, then I let my lawyer deal with them. It's amazing how fast they sign that change order or sign off on payment after that.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

kmp said:


> The owner, a large utility, has a building manager that has been given too moch power and the owners only listen to him and he will not approve anything and doesn't understand, even with pdca and other standards in front of him what level 4 is. Uses an 8' level on walls, framing square on outside corner bead corners, turns off lights and uses a led spotlight with his nose 6" from the wall on 18 foot smooth walls and wants them perfect. He controls the payments and draws so nobody is happy. I have been doing commercial work since 1987 and never had a job or a guy like this. Yelling matches from the site trailer.


That's just craziness, people like that specialize in making everyone around them miserable. 

If they signed for level four that's what they get, nothing more nothing less. 

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## Fman (Aug 20, 2011)

kmp said:


> The owner, a large utility, has a building manager that has been given too moch power and the owners only listen to him and he will not approve anything and doesn't understand, even with pdca and other standards in front of him what level 4 is. Uses an 8' level on walls, framing square on outside corner bead corners, turns off lights and uses a led spotlight with his nose 6" from the wall on 18 foot smooth walls and wants them perfect. He controls the payments and draws so nobody is happy. I have been doing commercial work since 1987 and never had a job or a guy like this. Yelling matches from the site trailer.


Before you get a lawyer, go above the fussbudget's head and let them know he's holding up the job and costing them time and money. They may think he's looking out for them (and he just the anal-retentive twit for the job) but, if it's going to cost them time or money, that's the language of business. If they still don't understand that language, then a lawyer can explain it to them.


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## kmp (Jan 30, 2011)

I haven't had any money held up it's just the time wasted on this project. Going to a higher up will do no good as they have given him carte blanche on the project. When I mentioned it was a large utility it is. It is a multi- state provider of electricity with thousands of miles of transmission lines and at least a dozen generating stations so you can talk lawyers all you want and it is just pissin' in the wind with these guys. The general has failed in many ways but only so much can be done.


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## PaPainter724 (Apr 22, 2016)

You'd be surprised how quickly a couple letters or phone calls clean up problems with even the biggest companies. I've dealt with massive power companies in the south during shut downs and they refused to pay because the product they specced out was wrong for the job. A couple calls later we had a change order and our original scope of work was paid in full. I'm not saying that there's no company out there who will try and ignore you, but most will rather just cut their losses than get tied up in litigation.


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## kmp (Jan 30, 2011)

Again I'm not losing money and my end is o k it's the g.c. that has to deal with it. This kind of went side ways from what the op asked, kind of my fault. Anyway level 4, visible flaws and defects, not ready for paint.


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## PaPainter724 (Apr 22, 2016)

No, I understood. I'm just saying that if I were the drywaller, I'd be forcing the issue. The GC is almost always going to side against his subs though lol.

And, I agree. But, like I said. It's incredibly rare to see level 5 finishes, true level 5 finishes. Even level 4 is getting rare. I see a lot of level 3 with one coat on each side of the inside corners.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Link*



sweet3 said:


> Hi guys I'm kind of new and that's why I'm here to learn. I don't know how else to ask this, but what is a level 4 drywall finish? One of my friends is looking to have his basement done level 4 finish. Could someone explain what a level 4 finish is?
> 
> Thank you.


Here is another link to drywall finishes:

http://www.iceline.com/estref/popular_conversion_files/finishes/finish_levels.html

futtyos


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