# Help with Stain Job



## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

Hi,
It has been a very long time since I did a shingle stain job, and this is a small one so really good for getting my feet wet. Thwse are pine shingles with solid stain on them. My #1 question is do I need to sand everything after cleaning or just sand the raw wood to remove the dead fibers before I stain. Any other advice will be greatly appreciated. This house is virtually right on the the water--a couple rows of houses keep it from being right on the water, and the weathering is due to the nasty winter that we had.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

No need to sand all the siding, just the bare spots. Spot prime with the solid stain where ever you sand.

I take it your brushing this out?


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

cdpainting said:


> No need to sand all the siding, just the bare spots. Spot prime with the solid stain where ever you sand.
> 
> I take it your brushing this out?


Thanks Dave,
Yes, I will be using a brush. No one sprays outside here. Too windy. It amazes me that you can spray, so close to the ocean.


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

Curious, why chose a solid stain versus paint? I don't live by water much less sea (salt) water.

But I have used solid stain before and if put on heavy or even 'medium' coated, it really resembles paint.

I know sherwin is in a transition right now to get rid of woodscapes. Can't remember if they are getting rid of the solid color stain or not. But I know their replacing the lineup with other stuff. Should be this month.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

woodcoyote said:


> Curious, why chose a solid stain versus paint? I don't live by water much less sea (salt) water.
> 
> But I have used solid stain before and if put on heavy or even 'medium' coated, it really resembles paint.
> 
> I know sherwin is in a transition right now to get rid of woodscapes. Can't remember if they are getting rid of the solid color stain or not. But I know their replacing the lineup with other stuff. Should be this month.



I am not doing the entire building--only the back and 1/2 of another wall, so I am going with what is already on it.


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## PremierPaintingMa (Nov 30, 2014)

Hi Pete!
I will highly recommend a full coat of tinted oil primer mix with paint thinner and than do a solid stain. I use BM fresh start oil and BM ARBORCOAT solid.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

PremierPaintingMa said:


> Hi Pete!
> I will highly recommend a full coat of tinted oil primer mix with paint thinner and than do a solid stain. I use BM fresh start oil and BM ARBORCOAT solid.



Just curious why you would use primer on pine? I understand for ceder. Not questioning what you do--just trying to learn. And, would you do everything or just the raw wood.


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## PremierPaintingMa (Nov 30, 2014)

Pete!
First the wood look to dry.
Oil primer will penetrate better and give you good bonding and will make the finish coat look better. I would prime everything. Trust me you will love the result when it's done.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

PremierPaintingMa said:


> Pete!
> First the wood look to dry.
> Oil primer will penetrate better and give you good bonding and will make the finish coat look better. I would prime everything. Trust me you will love the result when it's done.


The wood is very dry. But, the last time I thought about putting oil primer over solid stain my store recommended against it becuse it is meant to penetrate into the wood, which the stain would prevent from happening. And the last time I used oil to spot prime, the oil that got onto the paint (around the wood that I primed) took forever to dry. Again, I am not criticizing your suggestion, just trying to learn.


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## PremierPaintingMa (Nov 30, 2014)

Pete the Painter said:


> The wood is very dry. But, the last time I thought about putting oil primer over solid stain my store recommended against it becuse it is meant to penetrate into the wood, which the stain would prevent from happening. And the last time I used oil to spot prime, the oil that got onto the paint (around the wood that I primed) took forever to dry. Again, I am not criticizing your suggestion, just trying to learn.


Pete!
are you using water born solid stain or oil semi solid?


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

PremierPaintingMa said:


> Pete!
> are you using water born solid stain or oil semi solid?


I forgot to check which one it is, I will be headed back out do an alchohol test to check. Hopefully it is oil, but it definately appeared to be a solid. Also will be talking to one of the tenets to see if he knows brand, color, and oil or latex.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

If your using oil no need to oil prime, but if your using an acrylic stain I would prime with a tinted alkyd primer first


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

journeymanPainter said:


> If your using oil no need to oil prime, but if your using an acrylic stain I would prime with a tinted alkyd primer first


Ok, I understand the logic behind using a primer on the raw wood, but will the primer really do anthing if it is put over the old stain. Should I give the HO an option of revoving all of the old stain, prime, and stain for the best results if this turns out to be latex stain that is already on it.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

Pete the Painter said:


> Ok, I understand the logic behind using a primer on the raw wood, but will the primer really do anthing if it is put over the old stain. Should I give the HO an option of revoving all of the old stain, prime, and stain for the best results if this turns out to be latex stain that is already on it.


Only if it's severely damaged by the salt water. If it's in good to okay shape I personally wouldn't prime, anything where you can see the knots or grain coming through prime.

Now if this was my job, and spraying was a possibility I'd prime everything I'm painting, then finish it.

If you can get any type of oil that will take several hours to dry use them. The longer the open time the more it will absorb into the shake


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## PremierPaintingMa (Nov 30, 2014)

Pete, It does, it will make the the stain bond to the old one better take the bleed out rust nails ..... 
Just power wash scrape and sand where need it do a full coat of fast dry oil primer let it dry and a full coat of solid stain.
Don't believe what the guy at the paint store tell you, I just bid on a big job in Hingham the guy painted the house 2 years ago it's all flaking he said the painter came in with Sherwin William rep and told him no need to prime just do 2 coats of wood scape and you will have no problem guess what it's all flaking and bleeding. You can't go wrong with oil primer for exterior. 
I have done 100 of houses like this even worst and never had a problem.


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## Boco (May 18, 2013)

Pete the Painter said:


> Thanks Dave,
> Yes, I will be using a brush. No one sprays outside here. Too windy. It amazes me that you can spray, so close to the ocean.


 You can do multiple homes at once.:jester: Nah, you need to pick and choose your battles when spraying. I am doing a very busy gas station next week . Its all spray worthy but just too risky with all the vehicles in and out. At least in the front.


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## PremierPaintingMa (Nov 30, 2014)

Cover the windows and the deck and rails use 413 tip lower the pressure and go for it don't be afraid of spraying. this two side will take you 4 to 5 hours top to spray.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

I fully agree with spraying the shake. Brushing it is a dripping nightmare and very time consuming to get in between every shake...unless you put it on super heavy in between each shake...then catch the drips. 

412 FF Tip with just enough pressure to spray an even pattern. Overspray wouldn't be an issue. Have your primer tinted to your top coat so it's just 2 times around spraying. 

I don't care if the house is in the middle of the ocean, there's no way I'd brush a shake house twice. JMO.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Pete the Painter said:


> Thanks Dave,
> Yes, I will be using a brush. No one sprays outside here. Too windy. It amazes me that you can spray, so close to the ocean.


This is why we use a small tip. 211 or 217. Cuts down on over spray.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

Spoke with one of the building owners yesterday and all of your advice was futile. Although I am better informed, the guy told me to do it quick and easy. There is solid latex stain on it, and I explained that priming first would get better adhesion, but he insisted that no matter what was done it would not last long because of its location. Give 'em what they want.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> I don't care if the house is in the middle of the ocean, there's no way I'd brush a shake house twice. JMO.





That would be kinda like digging a ditch with a toothpick. It could be done, but I sure wouldn't wanna have to do it.

A big fluffy roller wouldn't be so bad.


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## Stonehampaintdept (Jan 10, 2013)

Those damned ocean side dwellers are cheap. At least make sure it's a 100% acrylic, the Storm Stain Cat4 is, either the 412 or 418 would work. 418 it's specs actually say to thin 10% and it's a great primer to itself.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

Stonehampaintdept said:


> Those damned ocean side dwellers are cheap. At least make sure it's a 100% acrylic, the Storm Stain Cat4 is, either the 412 or 418 would work. 418 it's specs actually say to thin 10% and it's a great primer to itself.



Yes, California is nice, but I have become very frustrated with the BC as a paint store. I wish Cali would find another retailer in the area to sell its product. The Ace in Rockport has become a half decent store. Not the pest of paints, but they are carrying a lot of good Zinsser products, and now Carry Zar poly and stain, Sikkens (which I have not tried yet), and Vermont Natural Coatings. I was amazed at what they were carrying when I was in there the other day.


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## PremierPaintingMa (Nov 30, 2014)

Pete the Painter said:


> Spoke with one of the building owners yesterday and all of your advice was futile. Although I am better informed, the guy told me to do it quick and easy. There is solid latex stain on it, and I explained that priming first would get better adhesion, but he insisted that no matter what was done it would not last long because of its location. Give 'em what they want.


If that what he want, I'll tell the owner to kiss the warranty goodbye:w00t:


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## Stonehampaintdept (Jan 10, 2013)

Pete the Painter said:


> Yes, California is nice, but I have become very frustrated with the BC as a paint store. I wish Cali would find another retailer in the area to sell its product. The Ace in Rockport has become a half decent store. Not the pest of paints, but they are carrying a lot of good Zinsser products, and now Carry Zar poly and stain, Sikkens (which I have not tried yet), and Vermont Natural Coatings. I was amazed at what they were carrying when I was in there the other day.


I know, you're not the only one. And I do keep mentioning that to the rep. but not a lot that can be done until they move the department and get 1-2 paint guys in their, they just can't find anyone to work it. Their other downfall is they're an LBM dealer (lumbermen's buying group) which prohibits them from associating with a True Value or another Co-Op who could really help them out in a lot of ways.
I will mention Ace in Rockport (Smith's right?) to them next time we talk.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

Yes it is Smiths, although they might have trouble gettin in there. They are now big with Valspar.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

If the homeowner is tired of the stain wearing out he should go with Rubbol solid . Seems to hold up damn well to extreme weather.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

ridesarize said:


> If the homeowner is tired of the stain wearing out he should go with Rubbol solid . Seems to hold up damn well to extreme weather.


The Condo owner that originally contacted me has asked to give him a price to do it with a primer first and then two coats of solid stain.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

I hated doing exteriors at the coast so it's jobs like that which cause me to drop to my knees and thank the Lord that I only do interiors these days - and even those are usually far inland.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

RH said:


> I hated doing exteriors at the coast so it's jobs like that which cause me to drop to my knees and thank the Lord that I only do interiors these days - and even those are usually far inland.


I just did some work for a house today right on the coast, and it took a beating this past winter (more than normal). A lot of wet wood under the paint. I have been working for this guy for years, and if he was not constantly taking care of it, it would take very little time for it to be beyond repair.


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## Jazz_Painter (Feb 22, 2015)

I don't understand this, although we discussed it in another thread. You can use normal oil primer (like for paint) prior to using stain? Doesn't the primer seal the wood? Isn't the stain supposed to penetrate the wood?

Like Pete said, just trying to learn here  Exteriors are a b... for prep and product choices.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Pete the Painter said:


> I just did some work for a house today right on the coast, and it took a beating this past winter (more than normal). A lot of wet wood under the paint. I have been working for this guy for years, and if he was not constantly taking care of it, it would take very little time for it to be beyond repair.


It's not only what the weather and conditions do to the exteriors, but out here it's the very short season, and often, very short work days. Doing a coast house one time and by the time the surface had dried out, the wind had picked up making spraying almost impossible. Then, around 2:00, the fog started creeping in. Arrrggghhh...


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