# The big Behr thread.



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Why? Why not?
Good? Bad?
Cheap? 
Crap? 
Consumer Reports rating?
Smelly? 
StickY?
Great stuff?
Paint and primer?
Bad service?
Great service?
Rolls nice?
Lap marks?
Makes money?
One coat?
Whatever?:devil2::devil2::devil2:


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

In terms of the DIY'er, I would say that BEHR products, sold through the Home Depot stores, are well stocked and much more convenient to buy while shopping for drywall, tape, and joint compound, than most paint specific suppliers could offer. 

As far as BEHR preference for a professional painter, I would guess that it is more popular for its convenience than for its application abilities and performance. Particularly, if a contractor, or side jobber, is performing multiple tasks, like deck building, drywall installation, or finish trim installation. The idea of purchasing everything under one roof is extremely appealing. Especially, if the lumber yard is some distance away from the paint store.


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

:wallbash: please not again


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## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

It's a quiet Saturday, I'll bite. 
Used it years ago on the insistence of the HO. She wanted 6 doors primed and painted with Behr Semi-gloss white. Those doors, after THREE coats, felt rougher than 150 grit sandpaper. I sanded before priming, after priming.......in between coats. Those doors were as smooth as a baby's butt, but when the Behr paint dried, I had the sandpaper roughness.

It produced the biggest fight I have ever had with a HO. I told her it was the paint, she told me I sucked. We went back and forth and I finally offered her money back on the labor. She would not accept it. I tried and tried sanding them down again, tacking the doors, vacuuming the dust, and, still the same result. So, I vowed then and there to NEVER, EVER use Behr paint again.


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## ElTacoPaco (Dec 11, 2015)

Good Call ^


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

The mods all wish to issue a BIG thank you to PACman for starting this thread... Oops, wait minute. I misread that, it isn't a "thank" you.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Oh boy!

It's better to leave the walls bare than put Behr on the walls


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

No one has made selling paint more convenient then the big box stores. So I can see how frustrating it can be for the mom and pop shops to compete. 

So, since BEHR, Valspar, and SW will continue to be widely sold in the DIY market, shouldn't the mom and pop shops focus their attention on the needs of the professional contractor. Needs like prompt delivery, well stocked products, minimal wait times when purchasing and picking up paint. And lastly, a fair attitude across the board to all of their customers. Not just favorable attitudes to the store clerk's favorite loud mouth.


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## painterina (May 25, 2015)

Ok, my personal experience with Behr ultra premium (quite a few years ago) was not bad. A bit 'sticky' and its coverage was questionable. If it was the only paint available on the market, there'd be no complaints from me. But since having had the chance to use premium products from other paint companies, I've found no good reasons to return to B. 

For most people, paint is paint. You put it on the surface, it dries, and all looks good. Most probably like Behr, have heard of BM or SW or other paints but think these are more expensive, don't know why more expensive and don't see why pay more..

For painters, paint is experience. And good experiences want to be repeated. The way it feels on the brush or roller, the way it behaves and dries on the surface, the way it looks, holds up, retains its color over the years etc --all matter. Most paint products meet quality or ASTM/paint standards. Some products are just better than/preferred above others regarding some characteristics. It does not mean other products are bad.


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## AngieM (Apr 13, 2016)

I have a painter friend that won't switch from Behr because their 5 gallon buckets have a spout. Yeah, you read that right.


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

AngieM said:


> I have a painter friend that won't switch from Behr because their 5 gallon buckets have a spout. Yeah, you read that right.


Do you mean that they have a place for a spout (as do the 5'ers from SW and Valspar and.....)?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

painterina said:


> Ok, my personal experience with Behr ultra premium (quite a few years ago) was not bad. A bit 'sticky' and its coverage was questionable. If it was the only paint available on the market, there'd be no complaints from me. But since having had the chance to use premium products from other paint companies, I've found no good reasons to return to B.
> 
> For most people, paint is paint. You put it on the surface, it dries, and all looks good. Most probably like Behr, have heard of BM or SW or other paints but think these are more expensive, don't know why more expensive and don't see why pay more..
> 
> For painters, paint is experience. And good experiences want to be repeated. The way it feels on the brush or roller, the way it behaves and dries on the surface, the way it looks, holds up, retains its color over the years etc --all matter. Most paint products meet quality or ASTM/paint standards. Some products are just better than/preferred above others regarding some characteristics. It does not mean other products are bad.


Great insight!

I particularly like the part about developing an experience with a particular product that allows the operator/mechanic/technician, etc., to apply with confidence, regardless of that particular product's popularity.

And like painterina suggested, most paints being sold are going to perform to some minimal industry standard, whether they're twenty five, or 65 dollars a gallon. And, if I were to develop more experience applying BEHR Premium, I would probably overcome my discomfort with it's characteristics and become more confident with it. I might even like, and, recommend it.

Unfortunately, I have little time, or interest, in developing experience with products beyond my go to's. And because this is likely the case for many painters, BEHR will continue to be bashed in social media.

It just dawned on me, I never hear BEHR bashing at actual job sites.


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## AngieM (Apr 13, 2016)

SemiproJohn said:


> Do you mean that they have a place for a spout (as do the 5'ers from SW and Valspar and.....)?


I have no idea because I've never used Behr. After doing a Google search I see nothing different about those 5 gallon buckets from anyone else. I'm going to ask her about this. Misinformation must be debunked.


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

I have a former co-worker that still does side work. He loves Behr, especially for trim. He says you can't beat the price and it doesn't bother him to wait for it to be mixed.

I helped him out on a few jobs and just remember thinking I was working way too hard applying the paint,smelled terrible and was thin. Oh well.

I'm a creature of habit, when I find a product that works well for me, I have no reason to go elsewhere.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

fauxlynn said:


> I have a former co-worker that still does side work. He loves Behr, especially for trim. He says you can't beat the price and it doesn't bother him to wait for it to be mixed.
> 
> I helped him out on a few jobs and just remember thinking I was working way too hard applying the paint,smelled terrible and was thin. Oh well.
> 
> I'm a creature of habit, when I find a product that works well for me, I have no reason to go elsewhere.


That would be especially why I hate it. When you have to apply 3 coats of white over existing white and it STLL does not cover properly, it's just not right. Reminds me of SW's Eminence, another BAD product.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Sometimes I think Pac starts stuff like this on the early hours of the weekends while still at work just to keep it going til Monday so he's got something to review/read on mondays. Just a guess though.

Either way, I'll throw some fodder in.

Behr sucks.


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## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Sometimes I think Pac starts stuff like this on the early hours of the weekends while still at work just to keep it going til Monday so he's got something to review/read on mondays. Just a guess though.
> 
> Either way, I'll throw some fodder in.
> 
> Behr sucks.


Wildbill, I was thinking the same thing. Retail life up there in Mansfield OH can be a might lonely, especially when SW has their 40% off sales going on.


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## painterina (May 25, 2015)

CApainter said:


> Great insight!
> 
> I particularly like the part about developing an experience with a particular product that allows the operator/mechanic/technician, etc., to apply with confidence, regardless of that particular product's popularity.
> 
> ...


Yes, you're right. If I were to work with Behr Premium long enough, I might like it too. From experience comes effectiveness. Familiarity instills confidence, preference follows..


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## painterina (May 25, 2015)

fauxlynn said:


> I have a former co-worker that still does side work. He loves Behr, especially for trim. He says you can't beat the price and it doesn't bother him to wait for it to be mixed.
> 
> I helped him out on a few jobs and just remember thinking I was working way too hard applying the paint,smelled terrible and was thin. Oh well.
> 
> I'm a creature of habit, when I find a product that works well for me, I have no reason to go elsewhere.


There is no accounting for taste, as the saying goes. Perhaps Behr is an acquired taste..


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

painterina said:


> There is no accounting for taste, as the saying goes. Perhaps Behr is an acquired taste..


which causes


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Repaint Florida said:


> :wallbash: please not again


Sorry, but my thinking was that maybe I could contain all of the Behr crap all on one thread so It would be easier to ignore. We can't convince the mods to send them all to the diy site so I figured this would be the next best thing. So feel free to ignore any new posts on this thread. I will try my best to keep it going to deflect some of the needless Behr threads away from Painttalk. I'm taking one for the team so to speak.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Gymschu said:


> It's a quiet Saturday, I'll bite.
> Used it years ago on the insistence of the HO. She wanted 6 doors primed and painted with Behr Semi-gloss white. Those doors, after THREE coats, felt rougher than 150 grit sandpaper. I sanded before priming, after priming.......in between coats. Those doors were as smooth as a baby's butt, but when the Behr paint dried, I had the sandpaper roughness.
> 
> It produced the biggest fight I have ever had with a HO. I told her it was the paint, she told me I sucked. We went back and forth and I finally offered her money back on the labor. She would not accept it. I tried and tried sanding them down again, tacking the doors, vacuuming the dust, and, still the same result. So, I vowed then and there to NEVER, EVER use Behr paint again.


It's gritty as hell. Every Behr product I have done drawdowns has visible grit in it. That's a fact and I'll be glad to show anyone who can be bothered to stop in and look. I have had numerous customers comment on this as well.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

RH said:


> The mods all wish to issue a BIG thank you to PACman for starting this thread... Oops, wait minute. I misread that, it isn't a "thank" you.


All you had to do was move all of the behr threads to the diy forum! So I decided to start a thread where they can all be posted in one place. I'm sure the interns at Behr will thank me for it! They don't have to search through all of the other threads to read what people think anymore!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

painterina said:


> Ok, my personal experience with Behr ultra premium (quite a few years ago) was not bad. A bit 'sticky' and its coverage was questionable. If it was the only paint available on the market, there'd be no complaints from me. But since having had the chance to use premium products from other paint companies, I've found no good reasons to return to B.
> 
> For most people, paint is paint. You put it on the surface, it dries, and all looks good. Most probably like Behr, have heard of BM or SW or other paints but think these are more expensive, don't know why more expensive and don't see why pay more..
> 
> For painters, paint is experience. And good experiences want to be repeated. The way it feels on the brush or roller, the way it behaves and dries on the surface, the way it looks, holds up, retains its color over the years etc --all matter. Most paint products meet quality or ASTM/paint standards. Some products are just better than/preferred above others regarding some characteristics. It does not mean other products are bad.


See? Even positive reviews are allowed here! Unlike the Behr website that takes down anything negative within 24 hours! You had a good experience with it, good for you and thank you for sharing.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> No one has made selling paint more convenient then the big box stores. So I can see how frustrating it can be for the mom and pop shops to compete.
> 
> So, since BEHR, Valspar, and SW will continue to be widely sold in the DIY market, shouldn't the mom and pop shops focus their attention on the needs of the professional contractor. Needs like prompt delivery, well stocked products, minimal wait times when purchasing and picking up paint. And lastly, a fair attitude across the board to all of their customers. Not just favorable attitudes to the store clerk's favorite loud mouth.


Hey I don't like your TONE!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Sometimes I think Pac starts stuff like this on the early hours of the weekends while still at work just to keep it going til Monday so he's got something to review/read on mondays. Just a guess though.
> 
> Either way, I'll throw some fodder in.
> 
> Behr sucks.


Hey give me some credit here! This is a long term project and not just a weekend thing. Besides I'm going to the fair all weekend and won't have time to read anything until monday morning.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Gymschu said:


> Wildbill, I was thinking the same thing. Retail life up there in Mansfield OH can be a might lonely, especially when SW has their 40% off sales going on.


They have their paint on sale all the time. Nothing new. People are getting wise to their huge mark-up to give a huge discount sales. Kinda like how they catch on to the cheap furniture store crap.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Until PACman's Paints and Sundries starts selling lumber, electrical parts, and plumbing supplies, including toasters, BEHR paint and stains will continue to be popular among the Do-it-Yourselfers, homeowners, and the professional handyman.

And given a professional painter's ability to adapt to most paint products, the occasional purchase of the big box's BEHR, or Valspar, in the interest of time and convenience, will continue to be a valuable resource for many painters. Just telling the truth here. After all, it's really the big box corporation that the mom and pops despise, not necessarily the products they sell. Otherwise, these beheamiths would have folded long ago.

The real "American Culture" that everyone seeks to identify, but fails miserably with their lame impressions of "hot dogs, mom, and apple pie", is really about consumption and the access to goods and services with as little resources expended as possible. Corporations have facilitated that with great success. Especially, the internet conglomerates that facilitate our whining about it.


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## painterina (May 25, 2015)

chrisn said:


> which causes


Sorry what I should have said is: There is no explanation for one's preferences. Perhaps he has come to like it because he has used it exclusively for a long period of time. 

____________________________
Re photos in post #7: The 1st product (vs water) is what I recall using for some jobs few yrs ago. Other cans in second photo are lower grade, I think.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> Until PACman's Paints and Sundries starts selling lumber, electrical parts, and plumbing supplies, including toasters, BEHR paint and stains will continue to be popular among the Do-it-Yourselfers, homeowners, and the professional handyman.
> 
> And given a professional painter's ability to adapt to most paint products, the occasional purchase of the big box's BEHR, or Valspar, in the interest of time and convenience, will continue to be a valuable resource for many painters. Just telling the truth here. After all, it's really the big box corporation that the mom and pops despise, not necessarily the products they sell. Otherwise, these beheamiths would have folded long ago.
> 
> The real "American Culture" that everyone seeks to identify, but fails miserably with their lame impressions of "hot dogs, mom, and apple pie", is really about consumption and the access to goods and services with as little resources expended as possible. Corporations have facilitated that with great success. Especially, the internet conglomerates that facilitate our whining about it.


Just like the movie "Idiocracy". Which was supposed to be a farce, but is already becoming our reality. It's just a matter of time before we forget how to water our crops and all starve to death!


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> Just like the movie "Idiocracy". Which was supposed to be a farce, but is already becoming our reality. It's just a matter of time before we forget how to water our crops and all starve to death!


Who needs crops when we have processed, packaged, and genetically altered foods?

Give in to the inevitable PAC. And don't think you're going to go all Mad Max. You're likely too old and set in your ways to go rogue. hee.hoo.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

I don't care about SW having sales on their paints - continuous or otherwise, just as long as my "regular" price is less than any sale price.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I thought this was a BEHR thread. 

But, while I'm here, I use SW like I will use most other paint when my go to's are not easily accessible. I'm varietal like that.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

RH said:


> I don't care about SW having sales on their paints - continuous or otherwise, just as long as my "regular" price is less than any sale price.


I don't really care either! They know what their paint is worth. And their customers are starting to learn that just because it's advertised at 40% off it doesn't mean it's a good deal. Just 40% their exorbitant retail price. People are starting to get it.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> I thought this was a BEHR thread.


Hey! It is! Can we focus for once people? This is an open, all Behr thread so people don't litter up the rest of the forums. And so the Behr and Home depot people can find all this stuff in one place.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

This thread is going to have as much impact on BEHR, or HD's bottom line, as a turd has on a waste treatment plant. Basically, collected, treated, and discharged.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

CApainter said:


> I thought this was a BEHR thread.
> 
> But, while I'm here, I use SW like I will use most other paint when my go to's are not easily accessible. I'm varietal like that.


I had to check on "varietal". I expanded my vocabulary today. Thanks, CA.


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## bobross (Jun 27, 2016)

Whenever something goes on sale anywhere just implies the rest of the year they are sticking it to you. Doesnt take a genius to figure that out. 
SW does a 40% sale and now the diyer has a better discount then i do so their $100 purchase done once a twice a year is worth more then my $20-30k a year. Well hey thanks for clearing up what my business meant to you. Hallman Lindsay was happy to pick up the business and so far haas several superior products. Much better discounts


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

slinger58 said:


> I had to check on "varietal". I expanded my vocabulary today. Thanks, CA.


Living so close to the Napa wine country, it's second nature.


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## painterina (May 25, 2015)

*Behr Test *

I had a couple hours this evening, so on my way home earlier I picked up a quart of Behr Premium plus (paint & primer in one), ultra pure white, semigloss. $15 something a quart, $33 something a gallon, plus tax. 

I have a quart of BM Aura in the storage, so compared Behr Premium with it. Aura and Regal (and Advance) are my go-to BM interior paint products. 

By doing this test I did not intend to prove anyone incorrect, or cause anyone's displeasure.

For the sample, same type of brush was used, same substrate, same painter.. It was night, so lighting was 2500 lumen LED work light. 

Thin coats of paint were applied, half-hour drytime between coats. (Recommended recoat time for Aura is 3 hrs, and Behr 2 hrs. BM recommends applying Aura generously). But it's just a sample and I had not the time. 

Personal thoughts:

Aura has less, and more pleasant, fumes.
In terms of coverage, looks, smoothness etc, I prefer Aura. But I was impressed with Behr's. Of course your mileage may vary.


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## painterina (May 25, 2015)

(Reattached photos...)


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

bobross said:


> Whenever something goes on sale anywhere just implies the rest of the year they are sticking it to you. Doesnt take a genius to figure that out.
> SW does a 40% sale and now the diyer has a better discount then i do so their $100 purchase done once a twice a year is worth more then my $20-30k a year. Well hey thanks for clearing up what my business meant to you. Hallman Lindsay was happy to pick up the business and so far haas several superior products. Much better discounts


see? people are wising up to them!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

painterina said:


> (Reattached photos...)


Why are you using those crappy brushes? They don't compare to the Ultrapro line. (which I can sell at the same price btw.) But hey, that's another thread so.....


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

I feel I must add a full disclosure statement to this thread, I have in my career sold some pretty crappy paint and was quite good at it. It is much easier to sell crap then quality, especially when people are only concerned about price and convenience. So in a nutshell, you as "professional" painters are kind of in the same boat as I was. I HAD to sell crap because it was how I made my living. You all as professional painters often find yourself in a similar situation, in that in order to earn a living you have to use products that you may or may not consider a "good" product. It is all part of being a making a living sometimes.

But as business people, like myself, you should strive to escape that type of restriction. It is what defines what your goals as a business are. Are you always going to just use the cheapest, most convenient, and least workable paint? Or are you going to strive for something better? Make this a business decision first and NOT a personal decision. Because long term it will have a huge effect on how profitable your business can be.

So lets consider this as this thread moves forward. Are you doing what is best for YOUR business, or just following along with the path of least resistance to pay the bills every week? Do I sell every cheap a55 brand of paint that I have access to? Or do I strive to provide a quality product and reliable service to build my business on?


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## painterina (May 25, 2015)

PACman said:


> Why are you using those crappy brushes? They don't compare to the Ultrapro line. (which I can sell at the same price btw.) But hey, that's another thread so.....


Hey those are my current favorite trim brushes. On the cardboard brush cover it says 'semi-gloss, gloss & enamel: Smoothest finish'. So I took Wooster's word for it and bought a few, since I've had good experiences with Wooster. Turned out to be a fairly good product. Not the smoothest finish I've seen, but I kind of like the way it holds and releases paint, the right firmness/softness etc. I have different favorite brushes every few months anyway. 

Question: If those brushes, Wooster Pro, are crappy, and Wooster UltraPro are good, what should one think of the company? A good company, a crappy company, or crappy good company?

The answer of course depends on one's past experiences with their products. If the good experiences dominate the bad ones, one may continue doing business with that company. If the bad experiences are too many, one just says no. 

When one thinks in extremes, e.g a certain company or product has to be either good or bad with no middle ground, one might overlook or miss out something in between. There are many ok/fairly good products in between.

Most companies have different products at different price points. It would be a bad decision to make a 'crappy' product because it is at low price point. For that crappy product may slowly put the company out of business..


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

You have to have an open mind on the variety of paint products out there, and the resources, or a lack there of, that allow you to obtain them. Not everyone can trade in their 98 Civic, or their 80's model Porsche family sedan for a late model Mercedes Benz. But that doesn't mean they still can't get from point A to point Z with any measure of efficiency.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Still don't understand why any contractor would make a fuss about paint costs. After all, it's the customer that's paying for it. Sure, you want your bottom line number to compare favorably against your competition - but how many here don't make it clear to potential customers that they are using a higher end product and their bid price will reflect that?


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

painterina said:


> Hey those are my current favorite trim brushes. On the cardboard brush cover it says 'semi-gloss, gloss & enamel: Smoothest finish'. So I took Wooster's word for it and bought a few, since I've had good experiences with Wooster. Turned out to be a fairly good product. Not the smoothest finish I've seen, but I kind of like the way it holds and releases paint, the right firmness/softness etc. I have different favorite brushes every few months anyway.
> 
> Question: If those brushes, Wooster Pro, are crappy, and Wooster UltraPro are good, what should one think of the company? A good company, a crappy company, or crappy good company?
> 
> ...


I've had a bit of a discussion with several Wooster employees over this. The brushes sold at Home Depot and Lowe's are manufactured specifically for them, and are significantly "cheapened" for them to meet their pricing requirements. The filaments are cheaper, not trimmed as well, not epoxied as well. The ferrells are made of a much cheaper metal, the handles are not "polished" for smoothness which can cause blisters. They don't hold their shape as well and the filaments are much easier to bend and break then the top line Wooster brushes that are available only through "real" paint stores. The cost of that brush you have is probably 2/3 the cost of a similar Ultrapro, but the retail price difference is less then 10-20%. (depending on how bad the retailer wants your business!) I can sell you the Ultrapro upgrade to that particular brush for a couple bucks less and make a decent profit off of it. 

The problem isn't so much the quality or the price, but the poor relative "value" those brushes represent. They are specifically meant to be that way.

They do have a propensity to leave brush marks as opposed to the Ultrapro's. Do you care about that? That's up to you.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> You have to have an open mind on the variety of paint products out there, and the resources, or a lack there of, that allow you to obtain them. Not everyone can trade in their 98 Civic, or their 80's model Porsche family sedan for a late model Mercedes Benz. But that doesn't mean they still can't get from point A to point Z with any measure of efficiency.


Huh? You are a hippy aren't you?


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Ok another little thing of note here. I just took a looksie at a piece of trim I painted with Behr Premium plus ultra, Calpro 2000, and Proclassic semiglosses. All were the straight acrylic versions. This has been sitting in a dark file cabinet since october of 2014. There is a quite obvious problem with one of the products. That is, it has yellowed significantly in the almost two years it has been in there, and shows no signs of the yellowing slowing down. Guess which one it is? Almost matches SW2829 Classical White for reference.

Behr Premium Plus Ultra is the answer.

And I know exactly why it's doing this, and I ain't telling! Why would I let Behr know that I am that on to them? Lets just say it isn't because it is a high quality paint!

The only other product I have ever seen do this this badly was an old Old Quacker product. Oh, and a Majestic Paints product. Two Rolls Royces of the paint industry they most definitely are NOT!


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> Ok another little thing of note here. I just took a looksie at a piece of trim I painted with Behr Premium plus ultra, Calpro 2000, and Proclassic semiglosses. All were the straight acrylic versions. This has been sitting in a dark file cabinet since october of 2014. There is a quite obvious problem with one of the products. That is, it has yellowed significantly in the almost two years it has been in there, and shows no signs of the yellowing slowing down. Guess which one it is? Almost matches SW2829 Classical White for reference.
> 
> Behr Premium Plus Ultra is the answer.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, and for all of your efforts to expose BEHR, they have likely sold more than six million gallons in the time it took you to post the yellowing problem.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

We have used Marque a bunch of times last winter. I liked it. We have 2 jobs coming up where Marque was spec'd. The lines under Marque i wouldn't use except their newer contractor paints which are pretty nice (used on a 20 condo unit building and still holding up.

Plus for homes with bad mold issues Marque has held up better than any BM, SW Cali lines we have used.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

cdpainting said:


> We have used Marque a bunch of times last winter. I liked it. We have 2 jobs coming up where Marque was spec'd. The lines under Marque i wouldn't use except their newer contractor paints which are pretty nice (used on a 20 condo unit building and still holding up.
> 
> Plus for homes with bad mold issues Marque has held up better than any BM, SW Cali lines we have used.


Would you use it over bare clapboard house that you spent all summer stripping? NO primer, Marquee straight out of the can


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> Unfortunately, and for all of your efforts to expose BEHR, they have likely sold more than six million gallons in the time it took you to post the yellowing problem.


And who's fault is THAT may I ask?

And Yugo sold a 5hit load of cars too.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

cdpainting said:


> We have used Marque a bunch of times last winter. I liked it. We have 2 jobs coming up where Marque was spec'd. The lines under Marque i wouldn't use except their newer contractor paints which are pretty nice (used on a 20 condo unit building and still holding up.
> 
> Plus for homes with bad mold issues Marque has held up better than any BM, SW Cali lines we have used.


That's interesting. Because on the msds sheet Marquee has no anti-microbial or midewcide in it. It does however have something in it that makes it yellow pre-maturely.


----------



## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> And who's fault is THAT may I ask?
> 
> And Yugo sold a 5hit load of cars too.


I guess there are a lot of homeowners out there. I don't think Yugo had the wear with all that BEHR enjoys under the HD umbrella. Apparently, the painting industry in general, has done little to impress homeowners.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

PACman said:


> That's interesting. Because on the msds sheet Marquee has no anti-microbial or midewcide in it. It does however have something in it that makes it yellow pre-maturely.


Cat pee.


----------



## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*White paint yellowing*



PACman said:


> Ok another little thing of note here. I just took a looksie at a piece of trim I painted with Behr Premium plus ultra, Calpro 2000, and Proclassic semiglosses. All were the straight acrylic versions. This has been sitting in a dark file cabinet since october of 2014. There is a quite obvious problem with one of the products. That is, it has yellowed significantly in the almost two years it has been in there, and shows no signs of the yellowing slowing down. Guess which one it is? Almost matches SW2829 Classical White for reference.
> 
> Behr Premium Plus Ultra is the answer.
> 
> ...


This reminds me of something I saw years ago at my local paint store. I used to buy oil based BM Satin Impervo for my trim paint. One day I was at the store and picked up a piece of painted wood sitting on one of the shelves. Half of it was bright white and the other half was white that was yellowing. I asked about this and was told that the bright white was Muralo Ultra semi-gloss and the yellowing white was BM Satin Impervo. I then asked how long ago this had been painted and was told 6 months. Shortly after that I switched to the Muralo for my trim, kitchen and bathroom paint, at least for that period of my painting career. I have not used Muralo in years. I wonder if it is still as good as it was.

PACman, why do you keep your paint samples in a dark file cabinet? They should be out in the light where they could "age" in the same light as regular paint does. That way, your customers can see the results of your efforts. They can read the labeling of the brands to see which paint yellows and you don't have to say a word to convince them. Just a thought.

futtyos


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

futtyos said:


> This reminds me of something I saw years ago at my local paint store. I used to buy oil based BM Satin Impervo for my trim paint. One day I was at the store and picked up a piece of painted wood sitting on one of the shelves. Half of it was bright white and the other half was white that was yellowing. I asked about this and was told that the bright white was Muralo Ultra semi-gloss and the yellowing white was BM Satin Impervo. I then asked how long ago this had been painted and was told 6 months. Shortly after that I switched to the Muralo for my trim, kitchen and bathroom paint, at least for that period of my painting career. I have not used Muralo in years. I wonder if it is still as good as it was.
> 
> PACman, why do you keep your paint samples in a dark file cabinet? They should be out in the light where they could "age" in the same light as regular paint does. That way, your customers can see the results of your efforts. They can read the labeling of the brands to see which paint yellows and you don't have to say a word to convince them. Just a thought.
> 
> futtyos


It was originally put in the file cabinet by accident. But it is a real industry standard test procedure. It shows how a paint will yellow and discolor in various light exposures. It is a benchmark test to compare different paints.I now have it out on my sales floor to see if the yellowed paint will return back to white once it is no longer in a darkened area. (Bathrooms, closets, closed up rooms, hallways with little natural light etc.) Of course a wall or trim with no natural light exposure is kinda rare, it does happen. I've even seen it on cabinets on opposite sides of a kitchen before. I had to make two different paint matches for those two sides of the room because the homeowner just wanted the doors and drawers painted. When the painter took the doors off and sprayed them all in the original white, there was a very visible difference when he put them back up on that one side. Almost white doors on antique white cabinet fronts and sides. It wasn't noticeable until that point. 

And I still remember what paint those cabinets where painted with and why they had to be repainted in the first place. And what I sold the painter to repaint them and how long THAT paint lasted. I have a pretty good memory for when I see paint problems like that.

Satin Impervo is an alkyd, and all alkyds will yellow much quicker then acrylics will.

And I do have lots of neat samples for customers to pick and pull at, with the paint brand discreetly (not!) labelled on them.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Oh dang! My Consumer Reports' "best buy", "highest rated", "extensively tested" Samsung washing machine just self destructed all over my basement! I should go right now and buy some CR top rated extensively tested Behr paint to freshen the mess up a bit huh?


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

PACman said:


> Oh dang! My Consumer Reports' "best buy", "highest rated", "extensively tested" Samsung washing machine just self destructed all over my basement! I should go right now and buy some CR top rated extensively tested Behr paint to freshen the mess up a bit huh?


Anything to keep the thread alive, right?


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

journeymanPainter said:


> Anything to keep the thread alive, right?


Just trying to keep the Behr name at the top of the thread list to discourage people from starting another one. Since they can't be moved to the diy thread, this is my attempt to deflect them from the forum. If we can't beat them, isolate them!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

How about this one-" when my CR magazine top rated, best buy, extensively tested washing machine blew up my CR magazine top rated, best buy, extensively tested Behr paint peeled off my walls!".

Baahaa! I kill myself sometimes!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

I did actually accomplish a long standing challenge to myself this weekend though! I actually found a paint that has more ammonia smell then any Behr product! And oddly enough it says on the can that it is a low voc-low odor product AND it is also sold at Home Depot!


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## AngieM (Apr 13, 2016)

@PACman What is the function of ammonia in paint? Not a rhetorical question. Just wondering.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

AngieM said:


> @PACman What is the function of ammonia in paint? Not a rhetorical question. Just wondering.


From what I've been told it is used as a cheap way to keep the paint from mildewing in the can before it is sold. It is also used to replace some of the water soluble solvents that had to be removed to gain voc compliance. Ammonia itself is voc exempt. It can kill humans if enough of it is breathed in, but it doesn't pollute the atmosphere. So some companies load up on it instead of using an antimicrobial additive that costs less then 5 cents a gallon to save money.


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## AngieM (Apr 13, 2016)

Can cause cancer but won't contribute to global warming. Sign me up!


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

AngieM said:


> @PACman What is the function of ammonia in paint? Not a rhetorical question. Just wondering.


Its main purpose is for the manufacturer to use less titanium. The lower the amount of titanium, the cheaper it is to manufacture.


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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

used marquee ex satin enamel. good coverage but set up a little quick, no time for error


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

journeymanPainter said:


> Its main purpose is for the manufacturer to use less titanium. The lower the amount of titanium, the cheaper it is to manufacture.


a ha! I knew they were blowing smoke up my bum! SW always said it was to keep the paint from mildewing in the can, but I have also had people tell me it was used as some sort of wetting agent or some such for the cheaper pigments. But the gist of it is, paints that have a higher then normal ammonia odor are using ammonia to cheapen their product in a way that the normal DIY painter won't be cognizant of.

(cognizant is a big word I just learned!)


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Vylum said:


> used marquee ex satin enamel. good coverage but set up a little quick, no time for error


That's getting kinda common with the newer high solids paints. I had a heck of a time using Manor hall Timeless exterior a few years ago. As soon as the temps hit 80degs or so the stuff got tacky as hell. A lot of that has to do with some of the acrylic resins being uv cured now.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

I've put test patches of 14 different semi transparent stains on my deck to see which of them would look/work the best on a 10 year old deck. The differences between certain stain brands is quite amazing. The most amazing one of all is of course Behr! When it rains, the Behr S/T waterbased cedar stain turns an amazing shade of milky, fluorescent orange! ( NOT a color that appears in nature I might add! Except possibly on Costa Rican tree frogs!) And when it gets wet, you can scratch it right off with your fingernail. It's the only one out of all of them that does these amazing things! If i was i-phone savvy I would post pictures but I'm not so I can't. But it looked good at first! Until the first time it rained anyway.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

Like Ana and Elsa learned, you gotta "Let it go". That company's products suck and we already know it.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

ridesarize said:


> Like Ana and Elsa learned, you gotta "Let it go". That company's products suck and we already know it.


again, I started this thread to deflect the Behr crap away from the important posts. I have to add stuff to keep it near the top of the thread list.:thumbup:


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> again, I started this thread to deflect the Behr crap away from the important posts. I have to add stuff to keep it near the top of the thread list.:thumbup:


I don't remember BEHR ever being a problem in important posts. Is this one of those examples of a solution being created in hopes that a problem would come along? If anything, your bumping of this thread gives free advertisement to BEHR in my opinion. Which doesn't bother me in the least.

I find avoidance is the best practice when trying to ignore something. And vice a versa.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> I don't remember BEHR ever being a problem in important posts. Is this one of those examples of a solution being created in hopes that a problem would come along? If anything, your bumping of this thread gives free advertisement to BEHR in my opinion. Which doesn't bother me in the least.
> 
> I find avoidance is the best practice when trying to ignore something. And vice a versa.


maybe you should pay a little more attention.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> maybe you should pay a little more attention.


And then what, my soul will be cleansed from BEHR forever? I think you over rate the big box influence on professionals. I mean, sure, I'll shop there as a matter of convenience when the job I'm doing at home, or at work doesn't require particular specifications. But for the most part, I deal with professional suppliers and vendors.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> And then what, my soul will be cleansed from BEHR forever? I think you over rate the big box influence on professionals. I mean, sure, I'll shop there as a matter of convenience when the job I'm doing at home, or at work doesn't require particular specifications. But for the most part, I deal with professional suppliers and vendors.


You would be surprised how many professional painters buy behr around here. They may not be happy about it, but they do.
And besides there hasn't been a truly relevant or even remotely necessary Behr post on here since at least October of 2014. They all are rehashes of existing threads. Thus, the "big Behr"thread. Plus it makes it easier for people to ignore them, having them all in the same place.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> You would be surprised how many professional painters buy behr around here. They may not be happy about it, but they do.
> And besides there hasn't been a truly relevant or even remotely necessary Behr post on here since at least October of 2014. They all are rehashes of existing threads. Thus, the "big Behr"thread. Plus it makes it easier for people to ignore them, having them all in the same place.


When you take into consideration how many painters out there fly by the seat of their pants, while measuring their competency by cut in and rolling techniques, in comparison to Journey level painters with actual measurable qualifications, can you really consider ALL painters professionals?


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

CApainter said:


> When you take into consideration how many painters out there fly by the seat of their pants, while measuring their competency by cut in and rolling techniques, in comparison to Journey level painters with actual measurable qualifications,* can you really consider ALL painters professionals?*




A little spackle and a little paint will make a painter what a painter ain't.

:whistling2::blink::no:


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I like to throw that journey level stuff out there just to rile up the self appointed professional painters. It's a little hat ass-shish I know, but it's fun. Does that make me a sadist?


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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

CApainter said:


> I like to throw that journey level stuff out there just to rile up the self appointed professional painters. It's a little hat ass-shish I know, but it's fun. Does that make me a sadist?


off topic but when i was in SF all i could think about is how big of a pain those heritage homes with all that fancy trim work way up high would be to paint, not to mention no room on the streets to access them. would not like to hit exteriors in sf


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Vylum said:


> off topic but when i was in SF all i could think about is how big of a pain those heritage homes with all that fancy trim work way up high would be to paint, not to mention no room on the streets to access them. would not like to hit exteriors in sf


We call them Victorians. They are beautiful architecture, but can be a pain to paint if hired to just "freshen up". Which typically reveals more prep than what was originally estimated.

Those structures are better suited for hobbiests and artists, or painting contractors who specialize in them and can convince a homeowner to pay what it will take to repaint them.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> We call them Victorians. They are beautiful architecture, but can be a pain to paint if hired to just "freshen up". Which typically reveals more prep than what was originally estimated.
> 
> Those structures are better suited for hobbiests and artists, or painting contractors who specialize in them and can convince a homeowner to pay what it will take to repaint them.


And, If you use Behr to paint them, you get to paint them twice as often! AWESOME!


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## ProvoPainters (Sep 14, 2016)

I agree with most of the sentiments here. For the most part it would come down to experience with the product. Most INTERIOR modern paints will perform adequately and meets the customer's needs (exterior is another story) and would come down to what color they prefer instead. High traffic commercial clients might be another story.
If you've been using a product for years and you like it, Behr is not a brand you should risk switching too. Nothing to 'write home about' as they say. It performs just fine, but as stated before, is a little sticky. 

------------------
http://www.provopainting.com/


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

ProvoPainters said:


> I agree with most of the sentiments here. For the most part it would come down to experience with the product. Most INTERIOR modern paints will perform adequately and meets the customer's needs (exterior is another story) and would come down to what color they prefer instead. High traffic commercial clients might be another story.
> If you've been using a product for years and you like it, Behr is not a brand you should risk switching too. Nothing to 'write home about' as they say. It performs just fine, but as stated before, is a little sticky.
> 
> ------------------
> http://www.provopainting.com/


Well put. Thanks for contributing! There aren't that many interior paints that are really bad any more. Not like it was back in the 70's and 80's. They are out there but most people are smart enough to stay away from them. Behr paints are definitely not the worst, but they are not near the quality that their salespeople and marketing claim. But then again, every paint company claims to have the best paint. It's just the ability of Behr to constantly bombard consumers with crap that really gets me! If I had millions of dollars to promote crap in a bucket I could make a bunch of money.


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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

lots of my clients LOVE to buy it. my clients love to buy the paint in general, kinda getting annoying to be honest.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> And, If you use Behr to paint them, you get to paint them twice as often! AWESOME!


Hey!, you're undermining your project.

Never mind, I forgot to look at what thread I was in.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> Hey!, you're undermining your project.
> 
> Never mind, I forgot to look at what thread I was in.


I'd post a smarta55 reply but right now I'm seething with anger over not being able to get Cabinet Coat Semigloss when the rest of the country can! Dangit!


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

CApainter said:


> Hey!, you're undermining your project.
> 
> Never mind, I forgot to look at what thread I was in.


You gotta check which thread more nowadays. I was in a different thread and I thought I was reading this one, Again...


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

ridesarize said:


> You gotta check which thread more nowadays. I was in a different thread and I thought I was reading this one, Again...


I think it was Daarch who once said once past post 10 in a thread it was open season on subject redirects and hijacks. I wonder how he's doing these days?


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

CApainter said:


> I like to throw that journey level stuff out there just to rile up the self appointed professional painters. It's a little hat ass-shish I know, but it's fun. Does that make me a sadist?


Not to quibble, but shouldn't that be ass hat-ish?


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

slinger58 said:


> Not to quibble, but shouldn't that be ass hat-ish?


I thought the same at first but then began to suspect it was intentional.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

slinger58 said:


> Not to quibble, but shouldn't that be ass hat-ish?


That just demonstrates how far I am, and will ever be, from becoming a "professional" writer. 

Till then, I'll continue flying around by the seat of my pants!


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

Wildbill7145 said:


> I think it was Daarch who once said once past post 10 in a thread it was open season on subject redirects and hijacks. I wonder how he's doing these days?


I've often wondered as well....hope all is well for he and his lovely bride.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

CApainter said:


> That just demonstrates how far I am, and will ever be, from becoming a "professional" writer.
> 
> Till then, I'll continue flying around by the seat of my pants!


Even the most famous writers have editors, CA. When you finally hang up the brush in favor of a keyboard, be sure and remember me when you're looking for an editor. I'm past ready to hang up my paint brush.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

slinger58 said:


> Even the most famous writers have editors, CA. When you finally hang up the brush in favor of a keyboard, be sure and remember me when you're looking for an editor. I'm past ready to hang up my paint brush.


 
I think he should have two editors, so I will be the second


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

chrisn said:


> I think he should have two editors, so I will be the second


Well, can I be the editor manager or somethin? Pleeeeeeazzzzze


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

lilpaintchic said:


> Well, can I be the editor manager or somethin? Pleeeeeeazzzzze


 
OK, by me.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

Wildbill7145 said:


> I think it was Daarch who once said once past post 10 in a thread it was open season on subject redirects and hijacks. I wonder how he's doing these days?


Probably still unpacking


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

lilpaintchic said:


> Well, can I be the editor manager or somethin? Pleeeeeeazzzzze


I see you as being his literary agent. You go to the big publishing houses and negotiate for the big bucks. :thumbsup:


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

slinger58 said:


> I see you as being his literary agent. You go to the big publishing houses and negotiate for the big bucks. :thumbsup:


Roflolol....my husband calls me his "price negotiator "...car, house, contractors, fridge...lol 
Its a running joke around here. He's the head of the house. I'm the neck. And the head don't move without the neck.lollolol


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## loaded brush (Dec 27, 2007)

lilpaintchic said:


> Roflolol....my husband calls me his "price negotiator "...car, house, contractors, fridge...lol
> Its a running joke around here. He's the head of the house. I'm the neck. And the head don't move without the neck.lollolol


The quote of the century


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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

behr is no good


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Vylum said:


> behr is no good


Profound. Just simply.....profound.


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## AngieM (Apr 13, 2016)

Comedy


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Tell us more, please!*



Vylum said:


> behr is no good


Vylum, can you give some details as to why you say that? Space here at Paint Talk is very cheap, at least for words.

futtyos


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

It's irony. 

BEHR ("better") is no good. 

Valium is a genius!


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

CApainter said:


> It's irony.
> 
> BEHR ("better") is no good.
> 
> Valium is a genius!


 
Although I like your spelling better, I will edit it to Vylum.

Do I get paid yet?:whistling2:


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

futtyos said:


> Vylum, can you give some details as to why you say that? Space here at Paint Talk is very cheap, at least for words.
> 
> futtyos


Maybe using it makes it hard for him to apply it good.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

PACman said:


> Maybe using it makes it hard for him to apply it good.


'Well' apply it well....lol

I think that's a hard thing to do. Although the exterior transparent stain finished nicely....No idea how it will age though


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

journeymanPainter said:


> 'Well' apply it well....lol
> 
> I think that's a hard thing to do. Although the exterior transparent stain finished nicely....No idea how it will age though


So was their exterior semi transparent stain the most better stain you have ever used? Like Consumer Reports claimed it was a few years ago? Do it glow in the dark when it was wet like it did for me? Does it scrape off with a fingernail like mine does?

We wait for your comments with baited breath! (or bait breath as the case may be.)


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

chrisn said:


> Although I like your spelling better, I will edit it to Vylum.
> 
> Do I get paid yet?:whistling2:


I found a card under my floor mat! It's a little sticky and only has $2.30 on it, but I can send it to you! I wonder if I could just post the serial number?


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

PACman said:


> So was their exterior semi transparent stain the most better stain you have ever used? Like Consumer Reports claimed it was a few years ago? Do it glow in the dark when it was wet like it did for me? Does it scrape off with a fingernail like mine does?
> 
> We wait for your comments with baited breath! (or bait breath as the case may be.)


Best I've ever used? I don't think so, I had to do two passes, then backroll it. 
It was dry by the time I left the site, so I doubt it, and as far as I know the customer was happy.

I don't listen to consumer reports, especially when it comes to paint, because I know paint. For other products, I do my own research. I go to third party sites and read reviews. I also use multiple sites to try and see if there is a bias somewhere.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

journeymanPainter said:


> For other products, I do my own research. I go to third party sites and read reviews. I also use multiple sites to try and see if there is a bias somewhere.


Same here, but regardless you have to be wary and event the best research can lead to failure. Couple of years ago, my wife and I were going to change out the toilet in our bathroom. I searched the internet for which one was held in the best regard. Every single place I looked seemed to consider the American Standard Champion to be the toilet of toilets. Thus, we bought one.

To coin a pun, the thing was a piece of crap. Problem after problem. You'd think you fixed it and you hadn't. Then, while doing still more research to find a solution I started finding out that thousands of people were having problems with this thing. A class action law suit had even been filed against American Standard for selling a product they knew was flawed.

At the end of the day, no matter how much research you do, you can still get screwed in the end.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

:vs_poop:I smell BEHR.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> :vs_poop:I smell BEHR.


Looks like my behr thread has gone to 5hit.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Same here, but regardless you have to be wary and event the best research can lead to failure. Couple of years ago, my wife and I were going to change out the toilet in our bathroom. I searched the internet for which one was held in the best regard. Every single place I looked seemed to consider the American Standard Champion to be the toilet of toilets. Thus, we bought one.
> 
> To coin a pun, the thing was a piece of crap. Problem after problem. You'd think you fixed it and you hadn't. Then, while doing still more research to find a solution I started finding out that thousands of people were having problems with this thing. A class action law suit had even been filed against American Standard for selling a product they knew was flawed.
> 
> At the end of the day, no matter how much research you do, you can still get screwed in the end.


This is how I ended up with a fluorescent orange, glow in the dark board on my deck. Testing it for myself. Next time I think I'll put some silver glitter in it.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

I have another really neat Behr paint story from this morning! One of my regular "Diy" customers, (i don't know what else to call her, she doesn't get paid to paint but actually does quite a bit of it for friends and such.) had bought some Grayseal white barn paint to paint an old neighbor ladies "garage". (it's actually half barn and half garage?) The woman she was painting for doesn't have much money so she was doing it for free just to help the woman out. Long story short, she was going to paint the ladies house for her as well, but didn't buy paint for it because the lady had paint from Home Depot she had already bought during the Memorial day rebate on it. 

After she managed to apply less then 1/2 a gallon, she told the woman she wouldn't paint anymore of her house with "that crap". (Premium plus ultra exterior I believe.) She said she didn't have all week to fight it and babysit it and if she wanted it done she would have to let her buy the paint. She came in this morning and bought another 5 of the barn paint saying that it was "10 times easier" to apply.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> I have another really neat Behr paint story from this morning! One of my regular "Diy" customers, (i don't know what else to call her, she doesn't get paid to paint but actually does quite a bit of it for friends and such.) had bought some Grayseal white barn paint to paint an old neighbor ladies "garage". (it's actually half barn and half garage?) The woman she was painting for doesn't have much money so she was doing it for free just to help the woman out. Long story short, she was going to paint the ladies house for her as well, but didn't buy paint for it because the lady had paint from Home Depot she had already bought during the Memorial day rebate on it.
> 
> After she managed to apply less then 1/2 a gallon, she told the woman she wouldn't paint anymore of her house with "that crap". (Premium plus ultra exterior I believe.) She said she didn't have all week to fight it and babysit it and if she wanted it done she would have to let her buy the paint. She came in this morning and bought another 5 of the barn paint saying that it was "10 times easier" to apply.


Invalid case study ^ given she's not a professional. Next.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> Invalid case study ^ given she's not a professional. Next.


She's applied quite a bit of paint the last couple of years. She actually painted the interiors of two office buildings for her regular boss. (she did get paid to do those btw. so I guess that does make her a professional.) Both buildings had probably 10-12 offices in them. And she painted the exterior of one of them this past summer. So maybe she is a little under-qualified to you, but she has a lot more experience then the typical Behr customer. She flat out refused to take the 5 of behr barn paint. I was going to give it to her to get rid of it. Nope, Didn't want it.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> Invalid case study ^ given she's not a professional. Next.


It isn't a case study, just a "neat story" for the Behr corporate trolls that are on this site. Just wanted to give them something to choke on during lunch time.
They are here. And they know.......


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

PACman said:


> I have another really neat Behr paint story from this morning! One of my regular "Diy" customers, (i don't know what else to call her, she doesn't get paid to paint but actually does quite a bit of it for friends and such.) had bought some Grayseal white barn paint to paint an old neighbor ladies "garage". (it's actually half barn and half garage?) The woman she was painting for doesn't have much money so she was doing it for free just to help the woman out. Long story short, she was going to paint the ladies house for her as well, but didn't buy paint for it because the lady had paint from Home Depot she had already bought during the Memorial day rebate on it.
> 
> After she managed to apply less then 1/2 a gallon, she told the woman she wouldn't paint anymore of her house with "that crap". (Premium plus ultra exterior I believe.) She said she didn't have all week to fight it and babysit it and if she wanted it done she would have to let her buy the paint. She came in this morning and bought another 5 of the barn paint saying that it was "10 times easier" to apply.


My partner and I painted the siding on a 2 story house last year that was going up for sale. The siding was a teal color that really stuck out. The realtor picked out a nice beige that would fit into the neighborhood. We used Behr PPU Exterior satin on the siding. I did the siding on the 1st story. It went on easily and covered in one coat, although I put a second coat on as per the proposal. There was no struggle putting this paint on. I live down the street from it and it looks nice every time I drive by it.
I would be curious what Behr paint your DIYer actually using that she described as “that crap” as well as the methods she used to apply it. I would also like to know what paint she used that was “10 times easier” to apply.

Sometimes I think that I must be in a parallel universe where Behr paint works well and is enjoyable to use. I simply cannot relate to the stories and experiences of the Behr bashers that I read here in Paint Talk. I am not saying that they are not true, I just don’t have the same experience. I am also not saying that Behr is the absolute best, I just don’t understand why so many people dislike it. I guess I need to try using a paint that is “10 times easier” to apply than Behr is.
futtyos


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

futtyos said:


> My partner and I painted the siding on a 2 story house last year that was going up for sale. The siding was a teal color that really stuck out. The realtor picked out a nice beige that would fit into the neighborhood. We used Behr PPU Exterior satin on the siding. I did the siding on the 1st story. It went on easily and covered in one coat, although I put a second coat on as per the proposal. There was no struggle putting this paint on. I live down the street from it and it looks nice every time I drive by it.
> I would be curious what Behr paint your DIYer actually using that she described as “that crap” as well as the methods she used to apply it. I would also like to know what paint she used that was “10 times easier” to apply.
> 
> Sometimes I think that I must be in a parallel universe where Behr paint works well and is enjoyable to use. I simply cannot relate to the stories and experiences of the Behr bashers that I read here in Paint Talk. I am not saying that they are not true, I just don’t have the same experience. I am also not saying that Behr is the absolute best, I just don’t understand why so many people dislike it. I guess I need to try using a paint that is “10 times easier” to apply than Behr is.
> futtyos


I have used enough Behr in the past to know how the stuff works, and it works without a struggle. I think the Ultra does a better job than, say, SW ProMar 200 and just as good as Superpaint (exterior or interior). For me the problem with Behr is where it is sold, and the accompanying hassle involved (waiting in line, having to sometimes deal with incompetent employees, no discount unless you have already purchased 10,000 grand worth of paint, or something to that effect).

I don't think Behr makes a good paint for trim, as it does not cure hard enough for my liking, but for walls and exteriors, it does the job.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

He take it easy people! I was just telling a funny story from this morning! This is supposed to be a non-biased thread, just like all the election coverage. I have literally thousands of behr stories told to me by DIY'ers, long time painting contractors, former Behr factory employees, former behr chemists, and several others. I've never had the pleasure of selling it OR trying it in volume, so I only have thousands of customers, etc to rely on over the past thirty plus years. The fact that most of my customers drive right past every Home Depot they see is all the validation I need. In fact, one of my best customers drives by at least 8 Home Depots to get to my store. If there wasn't a big difference, why would that be? I don't know.


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## loaded brush (Dec 27, 2007)

Bottom line. Just like just like every other paint brand out there, every one has good products and crap products.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Questions for PACman*



PACman said:


> He take it easy people! I was just telling a funny story from this morning! This is supposed to be a non-biased thread, just like all the election coverage. I have literally thousands of behr stories told to me by DIY'ers, long time painting contractors, former Behr factory employees, former behr chemists, and several others. I've never had the pleasure of selling it OR trying it in volume, so I only have thousands of customers, etc to rely on over the past thirty plus years. The fact that most of my customers drive right past every Home Depot they see is all the validation I need. In fact, one of my best customers drives by at least 8 Home Depots to get to my store. If there wasn't a big difference, why would that be? I don't know.


PACman, that is why I mentioned that I feel like I am in a parallel universe where Behr paint works well and many of the comments about Behr paint here in Paint Talk seem like they are coming from a parallel universe where Behr doesn't seem to work nearly as well.

I don't deny that many people have told you their Behr war stories. I also cannot deny that Behr has worked well for me.

What I really would like to know is what paint did your DIYer used that she found "10 times easier" to apply than Behr? I would think that anyone here in Paint Talk would be interested in any paint that is 10 times easier to apply than almost any other paint. Help us out and tell us what paint she used. Thanks in advance, 

futtyos


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

futtyos said:


> PACman, that is why I mentioned that I feel like I am in a parallel universe where Behr paint works well and many of the comments about Behr paint here in Paint Talk seem like they are coming from a parallel universe where Behr doesn't seem to work nearly as well.
> 
> I don't deny that many people have told you their Behr war stories. I also cannot deny that Behr has worked well for me.
> 
> ...


It was Grayseal white barn paint. Cheapest exterior I sell. She said it didn't drag every 3 inches when she brushed it like the Behr does. And it didn't try to stick her roller to the surface. And it covered over the grayish white that was already on the siding in one coat. This was just a favor she was doing for her older neighbor that couldn't afford to hire a painter, so she didn't want to put a whole lot of time and effort onto it.

This thread has 38 likes so far. Just sayin'.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Here's another story from yesterday late afternoon, although behr was mentioned by this customer it really doesn't have anything to do with behr other then the colors.
Customer comes in and looks at the my color gallery. Picks out three colors. When I ask him what type of paint he is looking for, he says he wants them made up in spray cans. ? I told him that I couldn't do that because it took some pretty specialized equipment to do it. Then he says "Home Depot can do any Behr color in a spray can."! Really? They can? Since when? I can't imagine HD being able to do this. Anyone ever deal with a Home Depot that custom fills aerosols?


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*My lying eyes*



PACman said:


> It was Grayseal white barn paint. Cheapest exterior I sell. She said it didn't drag every 3 inches when she brushed it like the Behr does. And it didn't try to stick her roller to the surface. And it covered over the grayish white that was already on the siding in one coat. This was just a favor she was doing for her older neighbor that couldn't afford to hire a painter, so she didn't want to put a whole lot of time and effort onto it.
> 
> This thread has 38 likes so far. Just sayin'.


It would have been interesting to have been able to watch this DIYer applying the paint to whatever surface she was painting with whatever painting implements she used. Both with the Behr and with the Gray Seal. 

My experience with Behr paint has not been the same as hers. Why this is, I have yet to find out. Keep us posted.

futtyos


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

futtyos said:


> It would have been interesting to have been able to watch this DIYer applying the paint to whatever surface she was painting with whatever painting implements she used. Both with the Behr and with the Gray Seal.
> 
> My experience with Behr paint has not been the same as hers. Why this is, I have yet to find out. Keep us posted.
> 
> futtyos


Me neither! 30+ years I've been hearing it! Still haven't figured out why people say such things. It really isn't as bad as a lot of paints out there as far as application is concerned. Yenkin-Magestic and Lucite come to mind right away as being much worse then Behr, and both those brands are still being made. I just don't know.

I mean, on the TV add for Marquee the woman dances ballet while she's painting with it! So it can't be that bad!


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

BEHR thrives because it is only paint. It's not Corintian leather, or a precious stone. Homeowners apparently apply it with satisfaction, because at the end of the day, they're more concerned about color and how the accessories look in the baby's room than the dragging properties of a can of paint. 

And frankly, a true professional could apply a bowl of snot to a wall and make it look good. Dragging and runny paint is a poor excuse for inadaptability.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Dress for success*



PACman said:


> Me neither! 30+ years I've been hearing it! Still haven't figured out why people say such things. It really isn't as bad as a lot of paints out there as far as application is concerned. Yenkin-Magestic and Lucite come to mind right away as being much worse then Behr, and both those brands are still being made. I just don't know.
> 
> I mean, on the TV add for Marquee the woman dances ballet while she's painting with it! So it can't be that bad!


I don't think that it is appropriate to dance while painting, but I have taken to wearing a tutu under my overalls.

futtyos


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

futtyos said:


> I don't think that it is appropriate to dance while painting, but I have taken to wearing a tutu under my overalls.
> 
> futtyos


I wear yoga pants under my coveralls. Is that weird?


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> BEHR thrives because it is only paint. It's not Corintian leather, or a precious stone. Homeowners apparently apply it with satisfaction, because at the end of the day, they're more concerned about color and how the accessories look in the baby's room than the dragging properties of a can of paint.
> 
> And frankly, a true professional could apply a bowl of snot to a wall and make it look good. Dragging and runny paint is a poor excuse for inadaptability.


So basically what you are saying is, 1) paint application properties have absolutely no influence or should have no influence on how long it takes to do a job.
2) anyone who is a professional should be able and willing to apply any paint brand as profitably as any other paint brand.
3) people who say Behr isn't very good don't know what they are doing.
4) using one brand over another doesn't effect your profitability. If it does, you are not a good painter.

41 likes and counting.
Hi there Behr interns!


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> So basically what you are saying is,
> 1) paint application properties have absolutely no influence or should have no influence on how long it takes to do a job.
> 
> 2) anyone who is a professional should be able and willing to apply any paint brand as profitably as any other paint brand.
> ...


PAC's questions:

1) paint application properties have absolutely no influence or should have no influence on how long it takes to do a job. *E=MC squared*

2) anyone who is a professional should be able and willing to apply any paint brand as profitably as any other paint brand.* You wouldn't believe the equipment, or material I've been tasked with to perform a finished product! But as a professional, missions were accomplished TYVM. *

3) people who say Behr isn't very good don't know what they are doing. *Not necessarily, but there may be evidence of an obsession there.*

4) using one brand over another doesn't effect your profitability. If it does, you are not a good painter. *For some, it may not. If you're consistently working for free when you're supposed to be earning a living, maybe painting is not the vocation for you.*


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Parallel paint universes*

Parallel paint universes


PACman said:


> So basically what you are saying is, 1) paint application properties have absolutely no influence or should have no influence on how long it takes to do a job.
> 
> _*I am still waiting to find out what tools your DIYer was using and how she was using them, also what condition the surfaces she was painting were in and what she did to prep them.*_
> 
> ...


Hi!

futtyos


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Just trying to keep the convo going guys, don't take it personally ok? 
So what do you think are the main reasons so many consumers are drawn to Behr? Just for the benefit of the corporate Behr people reading this, of course.
1) advertising
2) true paint quality
3) perceived paint quality
4) Home Depot convenience
5) pleasant smell
6) the knowledgeable sales staff
7) all of the above


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

One more thing just to clarify-A couple of you are saying that there is no correlation between paint quality/ease of application and profitability? Correct? Because I'm quite sure there are a few paint company employees that are reading this and are in a bit of a tizzy right now. Why are they spending all of that money on R&D if it just doesn't matter anymore? 

Again thanks for taking time out of your busy day to participate in this thread!


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

CApainter said:


> I wear yoga pants under my coveralls. Is that weird?


I'm not one those guys you alluded to in another thread who've been taught to be sensitive and tolerant of anything and everything, so I'm just gonna say it: That's some messed up, weird sh!t you got going on there, CA.

I won't even begin to address Futtyos and his dang tutus.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> Just trying to keep the convo going guys, don't take it personally ok?
> So what do you think are the main reasons so many consumers are drawn to Behr? Just for the benefit of the corporate Behr people reading this, of course.
> 1) advertising
> 2) true paint quality
> ...


Number 4, convenience, is probably the only reason why BEHR is so popular with DIY'ers, painting contractors, and side jobbers. And as far as the painter and handyman demographic, it is absolutely convenience.

Exposure under the Orange umbrella doesn't hurt either. NEXT!


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> One more thing just to clarify-A couple of you are saying that there is no correlation between paint quality/ease of application and profitability? Correct? Because I'm quite sure there are a few paint company employees that are reading this and are in a bit of a tizzy right now. Why are they spending all of that money on R&D if it just doesn't matter anymore?
> 
> Again thanks for taking time out of your busy day to participate in this thread!


Couple of things. (A). If a painter chooses to use BEHR more than once, they've figured out a way to make it work for them. Therefore, if they continue to be in business, their customers must be happy with their work. And (3), major manufacturers wouldn't exist if their wasn't a BEHR to kick around. So, it would be in their best interest to continue R&D. (C). Don't ask me how I got so smaught.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

slinger58 said:


> I'm not one those guys you alluded to in another thread who've been taught to be sensitive and tolerant of anything and everything, so I'm just gonna say it: That's some messed up, weird sh!t you got going on there, CA.
> 
> I won't even begin to address Futtyos and his dang tutus.


I know...a tutu?. What a weirdo.


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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

control. some home owners like buying paint because they feel more involved. little do they know i hit them with the im not using the s hit i like to use tax


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

PACman said:


> Just trying to keep the convo going guys, don't take it personally ok?
> So what do you think are the main reasons so many consumers are drawn to Behr? Just for the benefit of the corporate Behr people reading this, of course.
> 1) advertising
> 2) true paint quality
> ...


Just trying to keep the thread alive?? Someone obsessive much??? I have no reason to, but I am taking it personal now. We don't don't need a weekly discussion on this bs product line. Can I paint with behr, yes it's possible, will it dry well, not bridge with 2 coats? Can I backmask over it without problems, hell no.
. Good points and posts have been made. Let them stay instead of this thread getting too big, obscuring them. 
Why do we think customers are drawn to behr? We dont effing care, go ask the diy forums why they pass the paint stores.
The ONLY reason I've ever used behr was due to problem clients demanding we use the product, or only because they didn't put much thought into the situation but picked behr colors and now my boss has the uncomfortable task to either ask them to change to ben moore colors, or have ben moore color match, which brings up a few issues that the client has to weigh. But clients already spent days looking at behr fan deck colors, and says "these have to do".


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

This is who you really need to ask why they use hd....


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

Bent out of shape Behr hater: " At least when I go to HD I wear my PPG outfit..." :beer: :banghead::beer::sly:

I'm so pro... when I buy paint at HD, you won't find me hanging out at the counter, I go look at tools.. ha ha.
:jester:


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

So why do you think PPG hasn't figured all of this out yet? They have the financial backing of one of the largest corporations in the world, so why do you think they haven't started building 10,000 stores if market saturation and overwhelming advertising is the key to having your product perceived as a high quality product? They have the money to put a store across the street from every SW, Home Depot, and Lowe's in the country. So why don't they? You all seem to think this is all it would take, if your statements about why people use Behr are true. 

Any one of you could be the president of PPG if it were that easy! Convenience and perceived value is all the consumer wants, so why not give it too them?


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Again let me clarify; this thread was created as a way to keep discussions and comments about Behr in one place. If you think I might have hijacked Painttalk to establish my own little blog.....well you are absolutely correct. But I am also trying my best to get some enlightenment on the how and why I get and have for many years gotten so many conflicting comments and complaints about the Behr product line.

If you don't wish to participate in the discussion, then simply ignore it. If you would like to comment in any way, please make sure they are civil and within the boundaries of the Painttalk rules. All positive, negative, and indifferent comments are welcome. Any negative comments directed at me and my dislike of Behr are wrong and will be ignored.

I have a long history of selling against Behr, in several markets across the country, so I have some bias against them for sure. But the number and voracity of the complaints I have heard in 30+ years very much justifies my bias. Add to that countless premature paint failures and the justification is only multiplied. I am sorry if some of you are offended by that. But a fact is a fact. Only people outside of the realm of Behr and Home Depot are EVER going to hear these complaints and comments. Just like the only people who hate Mcdonald's never eat at Mcdonald's.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

Been on a stressful job, working my butt off. I made a worthless comment. Using products for a week and a half, that are comparable to behr, but not.. giving us slight problems, don't want to even mention the company's name or product. Not one we would ever go with but forced to do so. 
Sorry Pac, I value your knowledge a ton, and love to learn about paints from ya. You probably are ignoring me by now.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> So why do you think PPG hasn't figured all of this out yet? They have the financial backing of one of the largest corporations in the world, so why do you think they haven't started building 10,000 stores if market saturation and overwhelming advertising is the key to having your product perceived as a high quality product? They have the money to put a store across the street from every SW, Home Depot, and Lowe's in the country. So why don't they? You all seem to think this is all it would take, if your statements about why people use Behr are true.
> 
> Any one of you could be the president of PPG if it were that easy! Convenience and perceived value is all the consumer wants, so why not give it too them?


The reason PPG doesn't choose to saturate the market with ads, as a means to compete with BEHR, is the same reason you won't find BEHR products used for industrial applications.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> The reason PPG doesn't choose to saturate the market with ads, as a means to compete with BEHR, is the same reason you won't find BEHR products used for industrial applications.


Good morning sunshine! Are we bright eyed and bushy tailed today?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> Good morning sunshine! Are we bright eyed and bushy tailed today?


Apparently I am! I'm sure I answered your question as accurately as possible. For example, do you know if BEHR has a Novalac containment coating, or an off shore epoxy?

BEHR may do very well with Barry and Barbara homeowner, or even Horacio the handy man, who BTW, hates playing twidly thumbs while the Mom and Pop Paint Shop clerk fiddle farts around with their favorite customer, but aren't really recognized for their corrosion control products.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> Apparently I am! I'm sure I answered your question as accurately as possible. For example, do you know if BEHR has a Novalac containment coating, or an off shore epoxy?
> 
> BEHR may do very well with Barry and Barbara homeowner, or even Horacio the handy man, who BTW, hates playing twidly thumbs while the Mom and Pop Paint Shop clerk fiddle farts around with their favorite customer, but aren't really recognized for their corrosion control products.


Sure they do! It's called Marquee!


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

a professional said:


> I thought so. Point. Game. Win. NEX!


Did I just kill this thread?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Observation:

In nearly every corner of the world, people create scapegoats. Why? Well, one idea I have is, we would have to face our own short comings without them. In other words, BEHR is the scapegoat of the coating industry. And it's not because it's a competitor with the major suppliers of professional paints, but simply because it exists and is sold by an un apologetic corporation, not from the beloved mom and pop.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> Did I just kill this thread?


Naw, sooner or later someone will come in with another "story" for me to pass on. In fact, I just today had a customer tell me about the time he used 7 gallons of Semi-transparent Behr stain on his deck, and he had to go back to the Home Depot 4 times to get 7 gallons the same color. It was the packaged Cedar color, which speaks volumes (to me anyway, probably not to any of you) about their quality control. Well long story short (I know, too late!) after powerwashing the deck and using the Behr deck cleaner/brightener, and then waiting a few days for the wood to dry it peeled less then ten months later. Hmmmm. Comments? 

that's a semi-transparent. That peeled. 

Now what other irrelevant information do you all want from me? Oil? waterbased? Application method? Brand and type of roller or brush? Distilled or spring water thinned? Full moon or no moon? 

Someone try to tell me how a semi-transparent stain will peel off of properly prepared wood in sheets.

Lets go guys, my customer and I want to know what he did wrong. He isn't f*cking with Behr anymore.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

PACman said:


> Naw, sooner or later someone will come in with another "story" for me to pass on. In fact, I just today had a customer tell me about the time he used 7 gallons of Semi-transparent Behr stain on his deck, and he had to go back to the Home Depot 4 times to get 7 gallons the same color. It was the packaged Cedar color, which speaks volumes (to me anyway, probably not to any of you) about their quality control. Well long story short (I know, too late!) after powerwashing the deck and using the Behr deck cleaner/brightener, and then waiting a few days for the wood to dry it peeled less then ten months later. Hmmmm. Comments?
> 
> that's a semi-transparent. That peeled.
> 
> ...


So the answer, maybe you agree is the they don't suggest to sand the wood on the can instructions.

I think the sanding of a deck, the application techniques, brushing into wood etc, not leaving any excess wetness, and picking the correct manufacturer are all vital to success.

What he did wrong was use that stain. He should have consulted with you before hand and bought a quality product.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> Naw, sooner or later someone will come in with another "story" for me to pass on. In fact, I just today had a customer tell me about the time he used 7 gallons of Semi-transparent Behr stain on his deck, and he had to go back to the Home Depot 4 times to get 7 gallons the same color. It was the packaged Cedar color, which speaks volumes (to me anyway, probably not to any of you) about their quality control. Well long story short (I know, too late!) after powerwashing the deck and using the Behr deck cleaner/brightener, and then waiting a few days for the wood to dry it peeled less then ten months later. Hmmmm. Comments?
> 
> that's a semi-transparent. That peeled.
> 
> ...


Apparently, no one here wants to commiserate with you other than your customer. It might be that not many here are having issues with BEHR, whether they've found a successful method to apply it, or they don't even use BEHR to begin with. Either way, this is fun!

To tell you the truth, I'm more concerned about products I use that do fail. Sometimes because of operator error, and others because of some anomoly.


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

PACman said:


> Naw, sooner or later someone will come in with another "story" for me to pass on. In fact, I just today had a customer tell me about the time he used 7 gallons of Semi-transparent Behr stain on his deck, and he had to go back to the Home Depot 4 times to get 7 gallons the same color. It was the packaged Cedar color, which speaks volumes (to me anyway, probably not to any of you) about their quality control. Well long story short (I know, too late!) after powerwashing the deck and using the Behr deck cleaner/brightener, and then waiting a few days for the wood to dry it peeled less then ten months later. Hmmmm. Comments?
> 
> that's a semi-transparent. That peeled.
> 
> ...


I do think it's worthwhile to be skeptical of customers stories. Not that they are necessarily lying. More so that they may not be giving you all the details or don't know wth they are doing. Just like we shouldn't blindly trust consumer reports about Behr because the ratings are based on the DIYers not the Pro's.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Blatant thread bump coming! Yesterday I painted something with Behr premium plus ultra flat, and it was pretty much ok. I could get it on the substrate, it was the color I wanted, and it was flat. It washed out of the brush and went down the sink with no issues at all. Yup the white covered the old coat of white just fine in two coats. No problems at all.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> Blatant thread bump coming! Yesterday I painted something with Behr premium plus ultra flat, and it was pretty much ok. I could get it on the substrate, it was the color I wanted, and it was flat. It washed out of the brush and went down the sink with no issues at all. Yup the white covered the old coat of white just fine in two coats. No problems at all.


Sorry to hear that.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> Sorry to hear that.


Yeah me too. But it was just a block of wood that I use to hold quarts up to the orifice on my tint machine. Just need to spruce it up every once in a while. And the Behr quart was right there so I used it. It worked ok.

Sorry for the controversy on a Friday morning.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> Yeah me too. But it was just a block of wood that I use to hold quarts up to the orifice on my tint machine. Just need to spruce it up every once in a while. And the Behr quart was right there so I used it. It worked ok.
> 
> Sorry for the controversy on a Friday morning.


Are you gonna be OK?


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

PAC actually purchased a quart of Behr? It didn't get there by itself..


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> Are you gonna be OK?


Yea I'll be ok. It isn't peeling or anything yet though and it's been on a whole day now. Maybe Monday when I come in it will all be falling off or something. This experience has been so........average.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Sadly, this might be the end of the BEHR thread?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

CApainter said:


> BEHR thrives because it is only paint. It's not Corintian leather, or a precious stone. Homeowners apparently apply it with satisfaction, because at the end of the day, they're more concerned about color and how the accessories look in the baby's room than the dragging properties of a can of paint.
> 
> And frankly, a true professional could apply a bowl of snot to a wall and make it look good. Dragging and runny paint is a poor excuse for inadaptability.


I suppose since this thread only had a one season run, I'll start by posting what I think was "The Best Of". (see above ^):thumbup:


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Corinthian Leather
When Ricardo Montalban was asked by David Letterman on _Late Night with David Letterman_ what the term meant, the actor playfully admitted that the term meant nothing.

Pretty darned comfy looking. Back seat of a '78 Chrysler New Yoker Brougham.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

It always sounded so regal!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

This is what's called a "cliff hanger" kind of like "Who killed J.R.?". Tune in next February for season two!

I'm sure something new will come up, it always does. Such is the behr life.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> This is what's called a "cliff hanger" kind of like "Who killed J.R.?". Tune in next February for season two!
> 
> I'm sure something new will come up, it always does. Such is the behr life.


That's what they said about True Detective.


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## AngieM (Apr 13, 2016)

Has it been mentioned yet that Jack Pauhl is a Behr user. I've been reading his articles and reviews and I hate to admit it, but he makes some good points. I'm afraid I'm being drawn to the dark side


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

AngieM said:


> Has it been mentioned yet that Jack Pauhl is a Behr user. I've been reading his articles and reviews and I hate to admit it, but he makes some good points. I'm afraid I'm being drawn to the dark side


He offered good content until he went off the rails with two coats of BEHR enamel on unprimed drywall.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> He offered good content until he went off the rails with two coats of BEHR enamel on unprimed drywall.


But you CAN do it! I'VE done it. And after 30 days, it peels right off! But it CAN be done! SHOULD it be done? HELL NO!


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> But you CAN do it! I'VE done it. And after 30 days, it peels right off! But it CAN be done! SHOULD it be done? HELL NO!


I knew all of this was about guilt. As a person of high moral integrity, I have never applied BEHR enamel to an unprimed bare substrate. Never. *Angel wing stretch*


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

And while we are on the subject of bull5hit, I have found from an extremely reliable source, (of course for obvious reasons I will not divulge on this forum) that the Consumer Reports paint ratings "mystery" has been solved. 

The paint manufacturers actually have to PAY Consumer Reports to have their paint tested and published in the report. And the top spots go to the highest paying companies. It is nothing but one big marketing scam! You have to pay to get tested by them! The magazine in its entirety is the advertisement! That's why there are no "advertisements" in it! It is one!

What it boils down to is that companies like SW and PPG feel they can properly market their products themselves without having to pay to play. Brands like Behr and the other box store brands use CR as their main advertising investment! It actually has NOTHING to do with the actual paint quality! It's kind of like Angie's list and the like. The more you pay, the higher up you are!


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> And while we are on the subject of bull5hit, I have found from an extremely reliable source, (of course for obvious reasons I will not divulge on this forum) that the Consumer Reports paint ratings "mystery" has been solved.
> 
> The paint manufacturers actually have to PAY Consumer Reports to have their paint tested and published in the report. And the top spots go to the highest paying companies. It is nothing but one big marketing scam! You have to pay to get tested by them! The magazine in its entirety is the advertisement! That's why there are no "advertisements" in it! It is one!
> 
> What it boils down to is that companies like SW and PPG feel they can properly market their products themselves without having to pay to play. Brands like Behr and the other box store brands use CR as their main advertising investment! It actually has NOTHING to do with the actual paint quality! It's kind of like Angie's list and the like. The more you pay, the higher up you are!


So, it's like the grassy knoll of paint conspiracies. It's suspect, yet it continues to be groomed and nourished in the light of day, with little concern from the public.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

PACman said:


> And while we are on the subject of bull5hit, I have found from an extremely reliable source, (of course for obvious reasons I will not divulge on this forum) that the Consumer Reports paint ratings "mystery" has been solved.
> 
> The paint manufacturers actually have to PAY Consumer Reports to have their paint tested and published in the report. And the top spots go to the highest paying companies. It is nothing but one big marketing scam! You have to pay to get tested by them! The magazine in its entirety is the advertisement! That's why there are no "advertisements" in it! It is one!
> 
> What it boils down to is that companies like SW and PPG feel they can properly market their products themselves without having to pay to play. Brands like Behr and the other box store brands use CR as their main advertising investment! It actually has NOTHING to do with the actual paint quality! It's kind of like Angie's list and the like. The more you pay, the higher up you are!


and this is news? I have been saying this for years.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

PACman said:


> Blatant thread bump coming! Yesterday I painted something with Behr premium plus ultra flat, and it was pretty much ok. I could get it on the substrate, it was the color I wanted, and it was flat. It washed out of the brush and went down the sink with no issues at all. Yup the white covered the old coat of white just fine in two coats. No problems at all.


 
Probably could have used 3 or 4 to look right


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

CApainter said:


> It always sounded so regal!


Coreenthian Lay-thir. :jester:


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

Sooo. You dispose a company you spent money o just to validate your hatred. They have pills for that ya know...


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

lilpaintchic said:


> Sooo. You dispose a company you spent money o just to validate your hatred. They have pills for that ya know...


:laughing::vs_laugh:


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

lilpaintchic said:


> Sooo. You dispose a company you spent money o just to validate your hatred. They have pills for that ya know...


 
despise maybe?:whistling2:


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> So, it's like the grassy knoll of paint conspiracies. It's suspect, yet it continues to be groomed and nourished in the light of day, with little concern from the public.


Yup! Exactly. It's is so out in the open and so obvious when you hear it that no one will ever believe it. Diabolical is the word for it.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

chrisn said:


> and this is news? I have been saying this for years.


Yeah but I didn't believe YOU! The person who told me this had extensive knowledge and much more detail then I have heard before, That's why I will say nothing about who they were or the position they had.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

chrisn said:


> Probably could have used 3 or 4 to look right


I'll have to repaint it in a week anyway. It would be nice to be able to just put one coat on every time but I have a lot of junk paint to use up.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

lilpaintchic said:


> Sooo. You dispose a company you spent money o just to validate your hatred. They have pills for that ya know...


I don't get it. Try English.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

PACman said:


> I don't get it. Try English.


I'd like to dispose of auto correct....lol yes, the word was supposed to be "despise".
The other goofy word was "on".jeeze...


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

lilpaintchic said:


> Sooo. You dispose a company you spent money o just to validate your hatred. They have pills for that ya know...


I do buy paint from my competitors so I can actually use it before I judge it, if that's what you are getting at.

And I take so many pills.....I might already be taking those. Hell if I know.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I wonder if Tony "The Salami" Bartoluccettio, owner of Fagettaboutit Deli and Loans, anguishes over the Subway Sandwhich chain as much as Ernie Goodman, owner of Honest Ernie's Paints, Pastes, and Pails, does over HD.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

CApainter said:


> I wonder if Tony "The Salami" Bartoluccettio, owner of Fagettaboutit Deli and Loans, anguishes over the Subway Sandwhich chain as much as Ernie Goodman, owner of Honest Ernie's Paints, Pastes, and Pails, does over HD.


I'd be willing to guess that Tony's sammies are better than Subway's.

I'd stay away from the loans. Tho.

I'd also bet that Ernie's more interesting to talk to than the kid with the orange bib. Unless Ernie's a jerk or something.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Wildbill7145 said:


> I'd be willing to guess that Tony's sammies are better than Subway's.
> 
> I'd stay away from the loans. Tho.
> 
> I'd also bet that Ernie's more interesting to talk to than the kid with the orange bib. Unless Ernie's a jerk or something.


True. Ernie is indeed a nice fellow, But, I'd be performing that awkward back step towards the door as soon as he starts up with the BEHR. And I have a funny feeling that's all he likes to talk about.

Meanwhile, Tony is absolutely a jerk. I mean, he has the typical shrunken head associated with steroid use, and horse thigh arms like Jersey Shores meat mound celebrity "The Situation".


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

PACman said:


> I do buy paint from my competitors so I can actually use it before I judge it, if that's what you are getting at.
> 
> And I take so many pills.....I might already be taking those. Hell if I know.


I dunno if I'm buying it. I think you judge it, buy it, beat it up and enjoy the fleeting feeling of vindiction. It's a self fulfilling prophecy of sorts....


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

lilpaintchic said:


> I dunno if I'm buying it. I think you judge it, buy it, beat it up and enjoy the fleeting feeling of vindiction. It's a self fulfilling prophecy of sorts....


Vindication....stupid auto correct...


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

I went to HD today to buy furnace filters, after which I swung by the paint department to look at sundries. A woman approached the counter with an empty can of Marquee interior eggshell. I asked her what she thought of it. She told me that she loved it, that it covered in one coat (SW Trusty Tan color over previously painted BM in Desert Tan that a painter had done) and blended well. I asked her what she meant by “blended well” and found out that she was talking about how well it touched up. She had tried a lower tier Behr paint that she didn’t care for (she could not remember which one) and she said that she liked the Marquee better than the previous BM paint that she was covering over (as well as SW paint she had used in the past). She said that the BM had faded. She was doing her own painting this time.

It would have been nice if I could have come over to see the job that she was doing. I might see whether or not it really covered in one coat. I might or might not see flashing where she “blended” in or touched up. That is not going to happen, so the most I can say about this is what the woman told me. I don’t know if the word of a DIYer who is a complete stranger is worth paying attention to, but she sure was enthusiastic about Marquee.

In the past I have approached a couple painting contractors at HD who were buying Marquee and asked them what they thought. Both of them said that Marquee is their go to paint these days. One of them does mostly commercial work in downtown Chicago.
One of the clerks at HD told me about a contractor who uses Marquee almost exclusively now. He said that the contractor told him that he has a 4 man crew and speaks of Marquee as the 5th man on his crew.

What does it all mean? I am not sure. What I do know is that if you are using a tall 2-wheeled dolly to move a heavy file cabinet, don’t try to stop the dolly from making sudden movements by placing you’re the tip of your shoe on the axel to slow it down. The axel bent my toes backward. That was last Sunday. Friday was my first day back painting. Hot castor oil compresses a la Edgar Cayce every day does help.

futtyos


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

futtyos said:


> I went to HD today to buy furnace filters, after which I swung by the paint department to look at sundries. A woman approached the counter with an empty can of Marquee interior eggshell. I asked her what she thought of it. She told me that she loved it, that it covered in one coat (SW Trusty Tan color over previously painted BM in Desert Tan that a painter had done) and blended well. I asked her what she meant by “blended well” and found out that she was talking about how well it touched up. She had tried a lower tier Behr paint that she didn’t care for (she could not remember which one) and she said that she liked the Marquee better than the previous BM paint that she was covering over (as well as SW paint she had used in the past). She said that the BM had faded. She was doing her own painting this time.
> 
> It would have been nice if I could have come over to see the job that she was doing. I might see whether or not it really covered in one coat. I might or might not see flashing where she “blended” in or touched up. That is not going to happen, so the most I can say about this is what the woman told me. I don’t know if the word of a DIYer who is a complete stranger is worth paying attention to, but she sure was enthusiastic about Marquee.
> 
> ...


Moral of the story? If you love large conglomerate companies becoming monopolies in your area and nationwide,, just keep shopping there, until your local paintstores go under.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

ridesarize said:


> Moral of the story? If you love large conglomerate companies becoming monopolies in your area and nationwide,, just keep shopping there, until your local paintstores go under.


Sadly, it really is the way the worlds turning. Decades ago, I sold computers for a family run store. Future Shop came to town selling stuff for below our cost and the fate of the store I worked at was sealed.

My wife's Dad owns a small TV sales and repair shop out of a big addition on their house. He hasn't sold a TV in years, but he's fine with that as he'd pretty much retired.

In our town, Walmart tried to get in here a decade ago. Town council fought them off knowing that virtually every small business in town would go under.

And if you think about it, this is what manufacturers of products want. Makes distribution easier and less expensive. Handful of years ago I wanted a particular TV made by Panasonic. Found out the only store that sold it was Future Shop. Panasonic made them specifically for Future Shop. That didn't go over well with the inlaws. Wife still brings it up at least once a year that I didn't buy a TV off her Dad.

Few years ago we bought an American Standard toilet. Only made for sale at HD. Things a piece of garbage I threw off my back deck 2 weeks ago.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

I'm glad to hear your town kept walmart out. Couple places I shop the most and want to see thrive: local bike shop, paint stores, neighborhood auto shop, and around Christmas craft bizarres are good.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

ridesarize said:


> I'm glad to hear your town kept walmart out. Couple places I shop the most and want to see thrive: local bike shop, paint stores, neighborhood auto shop, and around Christmas craft bizarres are good.


Yep. It's brutal though. People here whine and complain about the prices all the local shops charge. They're willing to drive a half hour to the next town to go to the Walmart there for virtually everything.

Then people whine and complain that there's no selection of stores around town to shop at. Since we've moved here I would say at least half, probably 2/3 of the shops on the main drag downtown have turned over at least once if not two or three times. No local support. I have no idea why anybody would want to start a small business here.

You can't win. They're too big. They're always going to be there. At the end of the day, lots and lots of people go to the big box stores because that's what they want.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

In my experience, the mom and pop shops typically sell the same crap as the dreaded conglomerates do, except that the conglomerates don't give you the run around when you want to return the piece of crap.

We all would like to go back to the days when the sun was shining as we skipped on our way to the only corner store in town. The tiny ding of the entry bell announcing my presence as I made my way to the barrel full of milk chocolate chunks wrapped in cellophane. Four years later, I would be asking some stranger to buy beer for me at the same store.

Frankly, I don't care for the indignant attitude of most small shops today. If I can get the same thing from Costco, I'm likely to go there. The only exceptions would be specialty items like, comic books/record shops, guitar shops, and small used book shops. The smaller shops have a better ambiance than Wallymart, or Costco.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Conglomerates*



ridesarize said:


> Moral of the story? If you love large conglomerate companies becoming monopolies in your area and nationwide,, just keep shopping there, until your local paintstores go under.


Fair enough, ridesarize, but I am just making some Behr comments seeing as how PACman was so gracious as to keep this thread open for such things.

futtyos


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

futtyos said:


> Fair enough, ridesarize, but I am just making some Behr comments seeing as how PACman was so gracious as to keep this thread open for such things.
> 
> futtyos


You really can't have an in depth look at Behr without realizing the huge impact the brand has had on the locally owned paint stores unfortunately. I don't think consumers have a good grip on how devastating Behrs' and Home Depot's marketing has been to the small businesses. It is exactly what Walmart has done to all of the locally owned business. If you think that having a Walmart in your town is good for small business, you need to check out almost every small town in Ohio where there is one. The downtown areas of these towns have for the most part become ghost towns. They come into an area, basically close all of the locals due to their inability to compete with Walmart's pricing, and then flood that area with cheap merchandise to increase their market shares. As soon as the town population drops due to the lack of jobs, Walmart packs up and leaves. That has happened all across the Midwest over the last thirty years.
If Walmart actually stays in an area long enough and the population provides them with enough business, the unfortunate consumers end up with severely cheapened products at significantly higher prices then if there had been a modicum of competition.

Home Depot and Behr are doing essentially the same thing. You eventually end up with extremely bad customer service, a slipping quality level, and higher pricing. It is happening right now in this area, and having SW buy out Valspar isn't going to help things get any better. We are already pretty far down the path towards being an idiocracy.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Yea, screw the automotive industry for displacing the Black Smiths! Just think of all the advancements that could have been made in the horseshoe industry. What a travesty!!


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

PACman said:


> You really can't have an in depth look at Behr without realizing the huge impact the brand has had on the locally owned paint stores unfortunately. I don't think consumers have a good grip on how devastating Behrs' and Home Depot's marketing has been to the small businesses. It is exactly what Walmart has done to all of the locally owned business. If you think that having a Walmart in your town is good for small business, you need to check out almost every small town in Ohio where there is one. The downtown areas of these towns have for the most part become ghost towns. They come into an area, basically close all of the locals due to their inability to compete with Walmart's pricing, and then flood that area with cheap merchandise to increase their market shares. As soon as the town population drops due to the lack of jobs, Walmart packs up and leaves. That has happened all across the Midwest over the last thirty years.
> If Walmart actually stays in an area long enough and the population provides them with enough business, the unfortunate consumers end up with severely cheapened products at significantly higher prices then if there had been a modicum of competition.
> 
> Home Depot and Behr are doing essentially the same thing. You eventually end up with extremely bad customer service, a slipping quality level, and higher pricing. It is happening right now in this area, and having SW buy out Valspar isn't going to help things get any better. We are already pretty far down the path towards being an idiocracy.


There's actually a documentary about Walmart and the 'ghostification' effect they've had on small US towns. I saw it several years ago and it was incredibly interesting. Can't for the life of me right now remember the name of it. It's not the one done in 2016 that I'm thinking of, but that one might be decent as well.

It might be this one.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0473107/

It was incredible, and pretty much exactly as you described in terms of the process. Entire towns basically empty. Houses boarded up and abandoned because they wouldn't sell.

Now that's corporate predation.

The Walmart at the next town north of us is spooky to go into. Almost all the staff look like zombies without the blood. Cold grey pallor of death. My wife hates it when she very rarely drags me in there because the whole time I just keep quietly muttering "braaaaains, braaaaaaains." She thinks I'm gonna get caught someday.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

To be fair, I've met some real stiffs in the mom and pop shops. 

But seriously, is there any real chance of small paint shops carrying the painting industry. I mean, just given the volume in todays market, how could they even keep up without becoming conglomerates themselves? In other words, isn't the decline of small shops just a consequence of a growing population?


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Wildbill7145 said:


> There's actually a documentary about Walmart and the 'ghostification' effect they've had on small US towns. I saw it several years ago and it was incredibly interesting. Can't for the life of me right now remember the name of it. It's not the one done in 2016 that I'm thinking of, but that one might be decent as well.
> 
> It might be this one.
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0473107/
> ...


I always thought they should film an episode of "The Walking Dead." in a Walmart. Think of what they could save by not having to write a script or apply any make-up.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> To be fair, I've met some real stiffs in the mom and pop shops.
> 
> But seriously, is there any real chance of small paint shops carrying the painting industry. I mean, just given the volume in todays market, how could they even keep up without becoming conglomerates themselves? In other words, isn't the decline of small shops just a consequence of a growing population?


No it's the exact opposite. The fastest growing city in Ohio is Columbus, (by FAR!) and the independent stores there are doing quite well. But, the difference is the ratio of population to Walmarts. (or lowe's or Home Depots) There may be 4 Home Depots on Columbus but there are more then a million people in the metro area. In a town such as Wooster Ohio for example, there is one Walmart for 35,000 people instead of one for 250,000 people like Columbus. Also, when a city is growing, there is a much larger percentage of the population that is more willing and able to buy a premium product, there by avoiding the cheaper stores for a better product and service.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Have you ever noticed how Walmart employees take two steps through the door and stop? Kind of like one last chance to NOT go in to work?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> No it's the exact opposite. The fastest growing city in Ohio is Columbus, (by FAR!) and the independent stores there are doing quite well. But, the difference is the ratio of population to Walmarts. (or lowe's or Home Depots) There may be 4 Home Depots on Columbus but there are more then a million people in the metro area. In a town such as Wooster Ohio for example, there is one Walmart for 35,000 people instead of one for 250,000 people like Columbus. Also, when a city is growing, there is a much larger percentage of the population that is more willing and able to buy a premium product, there by avoiding the cheaper stores for a better product and service.


Are the mom and pops really supplying superior products? I'm not sure they are. But I suppose people who like the personal feel of a small shop will no doubt hate big department type stores. Personally, I was never one to chat with the person behind the counter. Quick small talk and I'm outta there!

I'm sure Sears, Macy's and JC Penny's were despised by the small dress and shoe shops. Now they're the mom and pop in the era of Amazon.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Ben Moore, California, Pratt&Lambert, Muralo, Graham, Fine paints of Europe, Farrow and Ball, Richard's, Coronado, are among the most common brands carried by Independent paint stores. So are they superior? Depends on your idea of superior I guess.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> Ben Moore, California, Pratt&Lambert, Muralo, Graham, Fine paints of Europe, Farrow and Ball, Richard's, Coronado, are among the most common brands carried by Independent paint stores. So are they superior? Depends on your idea of superior I guess.


Superior=convenience.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

I'd be willing to argue that superior=subjective.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> Superior=convenience.


So what you are saying is that Mcdonald's is superior to In and Out? Really?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> So what you are saying is that Mcdonald's is superior to In and Out? Really?


You have to look at what people put a priority on in order to determine what makes it a superior value. Let's take burgers for example. In the first place, what are you looking for in terms of a drive through burger joint? Answer, availability and a quick turnaround. That equals convenience. Therefore, value. And McDonalds is superior than all the rest in that market.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

CApainter said:


> You have to look at what people put a priority on in order to determine what makes it a superior value. Let's take burgers for example. In the first place, what are you looking for in terms of a drive through burger joint? Answer, availability and a quick turnaround. That equals convenience. Therefore, value. And McDonalds is superior than all the rest in that market.


Macdonald's is fine. When I'm working, and there's a toilet on site within 5 seconds reach, and I need something fast. However, I do worry about whether stuff like that is good for my guts. That's not a good thing.

There's a reason why the receipts from that place are called 'poop tickets' in the trades.

I will agree that Mcdonald's makes me feel full, all day long after I've eaten one meal. I won't agree that I'm in a better situation after eating their food.

I actually felt like some sort of junkie after getting hooked on their 'big xtras' burgers several years ago. Couldn't drive by a place without wanting to turn in.

CA, I'm just gonna assume that you don't think McD's makes 'good burgers'. It's food. I guess. But that's a stretch.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Macdonald's is fine. When I'm working, and there's a toilet on site within 5 seconds reach, and I need something fast. However, I do worry about whether stuff like that is good for my guts. That's not a good thing.
> 
> There's a reason why the receipts from that place are called 'poop tickets' in the trades.
> 
> ...


If you need a toilet 5 seconds after having McD's, you probably have to sit on the toilet when you have taco bell.

No fast food joint fills me up. Only Wendy's and A&W don't make me feel disgusting afterwards. Although I do love me some McDonald's coffee


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Macdonald's is fine. When I'm working, and there's a toilet on site within 5 seconds reach, and I need something fast. However, I do worry about whether stuff like that is good for my guts. That's not a good thing.
> 
> CA, I'm just gonna assume that you don't think McD's makes 'good burgers'. *It's food*. I guess. But that's a stretch.


Food? No. Food artifact? Maybe.

futtyos


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Macdonald's is fine. When I'm working, and there's a toilet on site within 5 seconds reach, and I need something fast. However, I do worry about whether stuff like that is good for my guts. That's not a good thing.
> 
> There's a reason why the receipts from that place are called 'poop tickets' in the trades.
> 
> ...


As someone who brings their lunch to work every day, I find no value in any drive through. But, if I were to need lunch on the fly, I bet I could find a Mickey D's faster than any other drive through joint out there. There seems to be one within 5 miles of anywhere.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

CApainter said:


> To be fair, I've met some real stiffs in the mom and pop shops.
> 
> But seriously, is there any real chance of small paint shops carrying the painting industry. I mean, just given the volume in todays market, how could they even keep up without becoming conglomerates themselves? In other words, isn't the decline of small shops just a consequence of a growing population?


First part, yes. If customers would go to those stores, they could help supplement the paint sales market. If there were no large companies here, the mom and pop stores by nature would be geared to serve best they can.

Second part, no. Not necessarily, economics are more complicated than saying, population growth equals small stores going extinct. More people in an area means a regular paint store can or should do better. It's just a matter of location, and successful business efforts. At a higher price point, still my local BM store is doing great and surrounded by 2 HD's, 2 Lowes, SW, Rodda, Miller, etc, etc.

I definitely agree with everything stated about having big businesses and them slowly cutting out the regular stores in general.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

Most large companies started out as small stores, or manufacturers. Many paint companies started small, now they are multi national companies, or just huge companies, sw, miller, parker (gone), even wal mart started out small. People just had to support them and they grew.

Convenience: I can assure anyone that my Ben Moore store is 50 times more convenient than a big box store. Shorter walk in, everyone knows me and my company, I can call in ahead of time, even short notice, I could buy product and have them leave it out back if they close before I can make it in (I work late often). They record all colors made for every customer, record sales and products for account holders, offer custom matching of stains and more, fresh local made donuts every friday morn, complimentary hats that you can wear in public and look good, they have the technical knowledge of their products, they give referrals to customers looking for the right paint company, they sell Festool, and I'll get rung up immediately when ready and get help carrying it out to vehicle. 

There is no competition in which store type is more convenient and which one I'll keep supporting. Did I mention the store barbeques, and donuts?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

ridesarize said:


> Most large companies started out as small stores, or manufacturers. Many paint companies started small, now they are multi national companies, or just huge companies, sw, miller, parker (gone), even wal mart started out small. People just had to support them and they grew.
> 
> Convenience: I can assure anyone that my Ben Moore store is 50 times more convenient than a big box store. Shorter walk in, everyone knows me and my company, I can call in ahead of time, even short notice, I could buy product and have them leave it out back if they close before I can make it in (I work late often). They record all colors made for every customer, record sales and products for account holders, offer custom matching of stains and more, fresh local made donuts every friday morn, complimentary hats that you can wear in public and look good, they have the technical knowledge of their products, they give referrals to customers looking for the right paint company, they sell Festool, and I'll get rung up immediately when ready and get help carrying it out to vehicle.
> 
> There is no competition in which store type is more convenient and which one I'll keep supporting. Did I mention the store barbeques, and donuts?


I only purchase from independents and none of them are like you describe. Angry, yes. Donuts, no. Then again, I'm sure I'm not a preferred customer. And I never complain about the cost of anything! Who in their right mind would spend $400.00 for a can of polysiloxane and smile about it, then have to wait four weeks for it to be delivered? Me, that's who!


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Is their any merit in the fact that the box stores hire way more people than the mom and pops do? And isn't that good for the local economy? 

Take my local Home Depot and Lowes for instance. Both supply contractors and material suppliers within our city and county.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

ridesarize said:


> Most large companies started out as small stores, or manufacturers. Many paint companies started small, now they are multi national companies, or just huge companies, sw, miller, parker (gone), even wal mart started out small. People just had to support them and they grew.
> 
> Convenience: I can assure anyone that my Ben Moore store is 50 times more convenient than a big box store. Shorter walk in, everyone knows me and my company, I can call in ahead of time, even short notice, I could buy product and have them leave it out back if they close before I can make it in (I work late often). They record all colors made for every customer, record sales and products for account holders, offer custom matching of stains and more, fresh local made donuts every friday morn, complimentary hats that you can wear in public and look good, they have the technical knowledge of their products, they give referrals to customers looking for the right paint company, they sell Festool, and I'll get rung up immediately when ready and get help carrying it out to vehicle.
> 
> There is no competition in which store type is more convenient and which one I'll keep supporting. Did I mention the store barbeques, and donuts?


Everything but the donuts here. I'm diabetic so it's too much of a temptation I'm afraid. I do get some top notch single source coffees though! Puapua New Guinea this week.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> Is their any merit in the fact that the box stores hire way more people than the mom and pops do? And isn't that good for the local economy?
> 
> Take my local Home Depot and Lowes for instance. Both supply contractors and material suppliers within our city and county.


They can have much better benefits, and they can actually pay pretty good. The problem is that for every person that actually earns that pay rate, there are twenty that just show up and go through the motions to get a paycheck every week. There is very little incentive to actually do any work whatsoever. Why bust a55 when you can get paid the same doing what everyone else is doing, which is as little as possible. This is not just an opinion but a fact. If you actually work, you end up working every weekend and don't get time off when you request it. I was denied time off for my nieces wedding and when my nephew had emergency life saving open heart surgery. I wasn't even allowed to leave a couple of hours early to take my mother home from the hospital. And I was on the schedule for 70 hours that particular week. If you do the work at a decent pace, you get screwed! So why bother?

Thus the pi55 poor service. It doesn't matter to the management, they're just glad to have some warm bodies in the store. So why work?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> They can have much better benefits, and they can actually pay pretty good. The problem is that for every person that actually earns that pay rate, there are twenty that just show up and go through the motions to get a paycheck every week. There is very little incentive to actually do any work whatsoever. Why bust a55 when you can get paid the same doing what everyone else is doing, which is as little as possible. This is not just an opinion but a fact. If you actually work, you end up working every weekend and don't get time off when you request it. I was denied time off for my nieces wedding and when my nephew had emergency life saving open heart surgery. I wasn't even allowed to leave a couple of hours early to take my mother home from the hospital. And I was on the schedule for 70 hours that particular week. If you do the work at a decent pace, you get screwed! So why bother?
> 
> Thus the pi55 poor service. It doesn't matter to the management, they're just glad to have some warm bodies in the store. So why work?


First, people are working non the less. There is no way a mom and pop could employee as many people in the community as these stores do.

Secondly, Most of these box stores are marketed to the DIY. That includes picking out your own stuff. It also includes checking out your own stuff. So if there's a bunch of stiffs roaming around, what do I care?

Mom and Pop shops are going to have to do a little more, in terms of service, to justify their existence rather than just complain about the big bad conglomerates. And coffee is just not that original. 

The main value for me, in terms of my independent suppliers, is that they deliver frequently, and without charge. Other than that, it's a real chore to order stuff without feeling belittled constantly. 


Note: I'd like to be clear in the other post, that I was referring to Home Depot recommended contractors and material suppliers, not HD customers.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

One thing I absolutely love about big box stores is that it makes shopping with my wife FAR less painful.

Her: "I would like to go look at lighting."
Me: "Ok, see ya. I'm going to the tool department, then ladders."

I've always got an escape route, and no longer have to stand there staring at the same two boxes of whatever for half an hour deciding what would look best in our kitchen.

Within the confines of a smaller store, I don't feel I have that freedom. If she can still see me from across the store looking at something else, she'll get mad because I'm not standing there with her. If she can't see me.... Out of sight, out of mind.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

according to our own government ('Merica that is) the largest potential source for new jobs for the next 20-30 years will be small businesses. If they aren't protected, we will loose a large portion of potential job growth. But since consumers aren't buying enough from small businesses.......I guess we're all screwed. Every single person that can pick up a paint roller and manage to get some behr on a wall is going to be a professional painter. It's only going to get worse. And since they don't have to do any prep and no one gives a damn about how the finished paint job actually looks and holds up, there will be no paint stores at all other then Home Depot and your local "Sherwin Williams" counter at Lowe's. But since I am the only paint retailer on painttalk anymore, I guess I'm the only one that needs to worry about that.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Another value independent paint dealers could offer, but typically don't, is drop by their customer's work place to review what's new in materials and what applications suits the customer best. Or, invite a group of contractors to a power point product presentation that covers the details and pro's and cons of their materials. Instead, they keep all that info to themselves and keep you guessing.

Internet ordering and feedback would also be helpful instead of the freakin hurried and tense pace every time I go to order a last minute this or that on the phone, or in person, that always seems to come up.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> Another value independent paint dealers could offer, but typically don't, is drop by their customer's work place to review what's new in materials and what applications suits the customer best. Or, invite a group of contractors to a power point product presentation that covers the details and pro's and cons of their materials. Instead, they keep all that info to themselves and keep you guessing.
> 
> Internet ordering and feedback would also be helpful instead of the freakin hurried and tense pace every time I go to order a last minute this or that on the phone, or in person, that always seems to come up.


Sounds like you are describing an independent paint store that has too much business. I find it hard to believe they would operate this way, but some of them (maybe even most of them)do. They either are selling too much paint to worry about your business (doubtful, but possible.), or they just don't care. Either way they are seriously mis-managed. If they wanted to pay me my required salary, I would be more then willing to give them my expertise on the matter.

One of the problems I have run into around here is that none of the painters have any concerns about new products or application info beyond what they can pickup at the annual proshow. To them, SW knows everything and no one else knows 5hit anyway so why bother with them. The attitude is "i've been using SW for twenty years so I know everything there is to know about paint and there is nothing new I need to know about until little MBA holder Johnny at SW try to sell it too me."


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

I honestly have to believe that my situation resides right in the middle of this whole situation. I get all my paint from a relatively smallish hardware store with a paint department. There are 4 staff members of the paint department, who are incredibly knowledgeable and always answer any questions I might have. Offer solutions to problems. Suggest new products, etc.

On top of that, they're the friendliest bunch I've ever dealt with. You literally feel like Norm from Cheers when you get there. They never complain about anything. Always answer when I call in an order. If I get there and one of them are just about to leave for lunch, they always take care of me before they go.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Wildbill7145 said:


> I honestly have to believe that my situation resides right in the middle of this whole situation. I get all my paint from a relatively smallish hardware store with a paint department. There are 4 staff members of the paint department, who are incredibly knowledgeable and always answer any questions I might have. Offer solutions to problems. Suggest new products, etc.
> 
> On top of that, they're the friendliest bunch I've ever dealt with. You literally feel like Norm from Cheers when you get there. They never complain about anything. Always answer when I call in an order. If I get there and one of them are just about to leave for lunch, they always take care of me before they go.


They are Canadians though, eh? Don'tcha have to be polite to keep yer citizenship? Eh?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> Sounds like you are describing an independent paint store that has too much business. I find it hard to believe they would operate this way, but some of them (maybe even most of them)do. They either are selling too much paint to worry about your business (doubtful, but possible.), or they just don't care. Either way they are seriously mis-managed. If they wanted to pay me my required salary, I would be more then willing to give them my expertise on the matter.
> 
> One of the problems I have run into around here is that none of the painters have any concerns about new products or application info beyond what they can pickup at the annual proshow. To them, SW knows everything and no one else knows 5hit anyway so why bother with them. The attitude is "i've been using SW for twenty years so I know everything there is to know about paint and there is nothing new I need to know about until little MBA holder Johnny at SW try to sell it too me."


My independent suppliers are too busy and too understaffed to spend any catch up time with me. The only time my suppliers wants to meet with me, is to introduce me to another product rep with a line I'm typically not even interested in. That's how I ended up buying a Festool . As a matter of fact, that's how I ended up with the AAA. And, I hardly use either.

I would like the chance for you to visit the SF Bay Area and share your knowledge with me and my suppliers. But I'm afraid I have no use for milking cows. j/k!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> My independent suppliers are too busy and too understaffed to spend any catch up time with me. The only time my suppliers wants to meet with me, is to introduce me to another product rep with a line I'm typically not even interested in. That's how I ended up buying a Festool . As a matter of fact, that's how I ended up with the AAA. And, I hardly use either.
> 
> I would like the chance for you to visit the SF Bay Area and share your knowledge with me and my suppliers. But I'm afraid I have no use for milking cows. j/k!


I quite enjoy the bay area. Spent a good portion of two summers there while my brother was stationed at Mare Island when I was a teen. Unfortunately most of my time was spent in Vallejo and Benicia, which in the late 70's weren't quite what they are today.

One summer my brother took me to the Greyhound station in downtown Oakland and sent me on my way to Pasadena to my cousins. Great place for a 15 year old, downtown Oakland is. I was literally the only white person on that bus. I was thinking they were going to make me sit in the back, but everyone was cool. Then again, they might have been scared to death of the crazy white kid! 

And I know quite a bit about natural fertilizers as well as milking.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> I quite enjoy the bay area. Spent a good portion of two summers there while my brother was stationed at Mare Island when I was a teen. Unfortunately most of my time was spent in Vallejo and Benicia, which in the late 70's weren't quite what they are today.
> 
> One summer my brother took me to the Greyhound station in downtown Oakland and sent me on my way to Pasadena to my cousins. Great place for a 15 year old, downtown Oakland is. I was literally the only white person on that bus. I was thinking they were going to make me sit in the back, but everyone was cool. Then again, they might have been scared to death of the crazy white kid!
> 
> And I know quite a bit about natural fertilizers as well as milking.


You definitely don't let your guard down in Oakland. Hyper alert. Vallejo slipping far behind beautiful Benicia. And San Francisco continues to grow ripe with snobby Yams (Young Affluent Millennnials).


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

*mr Behr*

I HAD to use this yesterday( I know, I know, don't go there)

Behr still sucks. Chasing runs, sags, drips all morning, + the smell is real bad( not cat pee but bad). Other than that, OK

No, I did NOT paint over the paper, it was rmoved


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

chrisn said:


> I HAD to use this yesterday( I know, I know, don't go there)
> 
> Behr still sucks. Chasing runs, sags, drips all morning, + the smell is real bad( not cat pee but bad). Other than that, OK
> 
> No, I did NOT paint over the paper, it was rmoved


Dang I thought you were bumping this thread for something new.


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## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

Chris, Hell just froze over.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Gymschu said:


> Chris, Hell just froze over.


If PAC was dead, that whirring sound would be him spinning in his grave. :vs_smile:


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## DEK Painting inc. (Dec 31, 2016)

chrisn said:


> I HAD to use this yesterday( I know, I know, don't go there)
> 
> Behr still sucks. Chasing runs, sags, drips all morning, + the smell is real bad( not cat pee but bad). Other than that, OK
> 
> No, I did NOT paint over the paper, it was rmoved


Yep !!! That has been my experience with their satin int. or ext . !!! If you don't mind putting it on real thin ( 3-4 coats) and baby sitting it while it flows out !! God knows its going to run and sag if you try to apply it like any other normal paint !!!! They don't call it the sag devil for nothing !!!!! I cringe whenever a HO wants me to use that $hite on their house !!!! In all fairness Ive never tried Marquee , and hopefully I will never have too !!!!


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Gymschu said:


> Chris, Hell just froze over.


 It was a bad, bad day, the walls were not primed for paper either by Hagerstown's premier paper hanger( no, it's NOT me):vs_mad:, so I spent another couple house skimming and sanding, two jobs I hate the most.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Over the weekend i started my next big hillbilly paint lab test by brushing several different exterior "paint and primer" paints on to some 4"x2" wood scraps. Of course I woodn't have anything to report yet, except i used some Marquee exterior satin as one of the paints. Is this stuff sold as spray ready or something? I mean seriously, the Dutchboy exterior was twice as thick as it was. There is no way in hell I'm going to be able to put that stuff on at the recommended mil thickness on a horizontal surface, let alone a vertical one. I really can't believe anyone would be stupid enough to purposely use this crap. It's runny as hell and i'll have to put four coats on to get it to the recommended dry film thickness. If someone requires you to use it, or they buy this for you to use, be forewarned and adjust your labor charges accordingly. I used ten other brands and to be quite honest other than the expected variances in application nothing stuck out as particularly bad about any of them at this point. But that Marquee? Crap. Absolute crap.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

PACman said:


> Over the weekend i started my next big hillbilly paint lab test by brushing several different exterior "paint and primer" paints on to some 4"x2" wood scraps. Of course I woodn't have anything to report yet, except i used some Marquee exterior satin as one of the paints. Is this stuff sold as spray ready or something? I mean seriously, the Dutchboy exterior was twice as thick as it was. There is no way in hell I'm going to be able to put that stuff on at the recommended mil thickness on a horizontal surface, let alone a vertical one. I really can't believe anyone would be stupid enough to purposely use this crap. It's runny as hell and i'll have to put four coats on to get it to the recommended dry film thickness. If someone requires you to use it, or they buy this for you to use, be forewarned and adjust your labor charges accordingly. I used ten other brands and to be quite honest other than the expected variances in application nothing stuck out as particularly bad about any of them at this point. But that Marquee? Crap. Absolute crap.


Isn't that the newish one coat paint ? I just dodged a Behr bullet. Convinced (was not too hard...they had Behr chips on the wall because they were at HD and just grabbed some colors they liked) the HO to go with California and now I get to try its new Ultra paint, which I have heard very good things about.

Sent from my VS98 using Tapatalk


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Pete the Painter said:


> Isn't that the newish one coat paint ? I just dodged a Behr bullet. Convinced (was not too hard...they had Behr chips on the wall because they were at HD and just grabbed some colors they liked) the HO to go with California and now I get to try its new Ultra paint, which I have heard very good things about.
> 
> Sent from my VS98 using Tapatalk


yeah. I randomly picked a white off the shelf. maybe they have to put thickeners in it before you buy it? It's already showing discoloration. The only one showing discoloration already. On yellow pine. If someone can explain that to me i'll give them a dollar. On the plus side it was so thin it soaked right in to it!


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## jprefect (Mar 4, 2015)

AngieM said:


> I have a painter friend that won't switch from Behr because their 5 gallon buckets have a spout. Yeah, you read that right.


:vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_lol::vs_lol::vs_lol:
:lol:

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

Send this knucklehead in here. . . 

:bangin:


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Joke?*



jprefect said:


> :vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_laugh::vs_lol::vs_lol::vs_lol:
> :lol:
> 
> BWAHAHAHAHAHA!
> ...


I was unaware that 5 gallon buckets of behr paint came with a green spout from Lowes: 

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Project-So...Pour-Spout-Fits-Bucket-Size-5-Gallon/50094746

By the way, I have this green spout from Lowes and it comes out of the bucket when pouring paint.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

spouts are extremely diy. I can pour right from a five into quarts with no problems.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

PACman said:


> spouts are extremely diy. I can pour right from a five into quarts with no problems.




From a full five? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

slinger58 said:


> From a full five?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yup. Been doing it for years. When you have to do it as frequently as we did you get the hang of it. We had customers buy quarts of various products to send with their finished goods as touch up. They usually would order 50-60 of them. We quite often just pulled a five out of their batch before we shipped it and rather than waste the time using "normal" methods we just poured right out of the five. Every time saving technique saves labor, less labor means more profit, more profit means more bonus!


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

PACman said:


> Yup. Been doing it for years. When you have to do it as frequently as we did you get the hang of it. We had customers buy quarts of various products to send with their finished goods as touch up. They usually would order 50-60 of them. We quite often just pulled a five out of their batch before we shipped it and rather than waste the time using "normal" methods we just poured right out of the five. Every time saving technique saves labor, less labor means more profit, more profit means more bonus!




My hats off to ya. I make a mess trying to pour from a full gallon into a quart cup. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Not all fivers are made the same. Several years ago on a new construction job, I got stuck using some primer I'd never heard of before. Lid looked different than what I was used to seeing, but didn't initially phase me.

Started pouring this stuff into a tray and all of a sudden it's running down the side of the bucket like crazy. Weirdest thing I've ever seen. Never saw it happen before, never seen it since.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Not all fivers are made the same. Several years ago on a new construction job, I got stuck using some primer I'd never heard of before. Lid looked different than what I was used to seeing, but didn't initially phase me.
> 
> Started pouring this stuff into a tray and all of a sudden it's running down the side of the bucket like crazy. Weirdest thing I've ever seen. Never saw it happen before, never seen it since.


wasn't Marquee exterior was it?


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

PACman said:


> wasn't Marquee exterior was it?


Nah, I honestly can't remember what it was. Drywaller was from out of town, so it wasn't a brand of primer I recognized. Around here all drywallers prime their own work. It was just weird how much of a bloody mess it made. I had the bucket tipped over enough but it was just going all over the place even with a big target like a paint tray.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Had myself a good Ole time wrestling the Behr this week. 

It's been years since I've last used it and I had a job where the HO had already bought all the paint. 

Some observations... 

Didn't didn't smell like cat pee pee. 

It cut in like a dream. 

Rolled out real nice. 

Hide was average on par with Cashmere or SuperPaint. 

It didn't stripe or hat band. 

That satin had too much sheen for my liking. 

It kind of has a plasticy look to it. 

I cut and rolled everything except the dining room one coat then second coated the following day. The can says it has a two hour recoat time but I had some trouble in the dining room where I recoated after four hours. The dining room curtained on me after the second coat in places, which was always one of my biggest gripes with Behr. Apparently you have to let it dry overnight to avoid that which isn't all that practical. 

Anyway that's my thoughts on it. Other than the runny second coat in the dining room it was actually easy to use. :yes:


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

That ceiling looks more hideous then the runs!


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

CApainter said:


> That ceiling looks more hideous then the runs!


Haha yeah we've got a serious popcorn infestation down here.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Haha yeah we've got a serious popcorn infestation down here.




We painters need to hire a lobbyist and get that popcorn sh!t outlawed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

That's actually dollar for dollar the best paint they make! It actually dries smooth and not gritty as hell. And it doesn't drag like you're trying to smear silly putty.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

PACman said:


> That's actually dollar for dollar the best paint they make! It actually dries smooth and not gritty as hell. And it doesn't drag like you're trying to smear silly putty.


Ha, lets not get crazy. I'm just saying I was expecting misery but instead was pleasantly surprised. I'd say the cutting was the best part and I went over both flat and satin. We even made sure to bring extender because I was fully expecting it to be a drag. 

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Ha, lets not get crazy. I'm just saying I was expecting misery but instead was pleasantly surprised. I'd say the cutting was the best part and I went over both flat and satin. We even made sure to bring extender because I was fully expecting it to be a drag.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk


Like i said, in it's retail dollar range it's not to bad. Above average in my estimation anyway. Not on par with P&L, Cali, or even the high end SW products by any means. But a good usable product for people who don't expect or even know what a good paint is like to use. In fact, one of the ways i know if a painter that claims they use Behr exclusively knows what they are doing is to ask them what interior behr product they use. If they say this one i actually think they might know what they are doing. If they are using the premium plus ultra or the marquee over other brands i kind of feel like they are not really up to snuff, if you know what i mean. (this is voluntary use of behr btw, not when they have to use behr.)


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

PACman said:


> Like i said, in it's retail dollar range it's not to bad. Above average in my estimation anyway. Not on par with P&L, Cali, or even the high end SW products by any means. But a good usable product for people who don't expect or even know what a good paint is like to use. In fact, one of the ways i know if a painter that claims they use Behr exclusively knows what they are doing is to ask them what interior behr product they use. If they say this one i actually think they might know what they are doing. If they are using the premium plus ultra or the marquee over other brands i kind of feel like they are not really up to snuff, if you know what i mean. (this is voluntary use of behr btw, not when they have to use behr.)


Got ya. I was reading your post like you wrote it sarcastically. As in that the best paint made anywhere dollar for dollar.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Got ya. I was reading your post like you wrote it sarcastically. As in that the best paint made anywhere dollar for dollar.


oh HELL no! Prohide gold ultra for example is a better paint then premium plus at a similar price point.


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Same here, but regardless you have to be wary and event the best research can lead to failure. Couple of years ago, my wife and I were going to change out the toilet in our bathroom. I searched the internet for which one was held in the best regard. Every single place I looked seemed to consider the American Standard Champion to be the toilet of toilets. Thus, we bought one.
> 
> To coin a pun, the thing was a piece of crap. Problem after problem. You'd think you fixed it and you hadn't. Then, while doing still more research to find a solution I started finding out that thousands of people were having problems with this thing. A class action law suit had even been filed against American Standard for selling a product they knew was flawed.
> 
> At the end of the day, no matter how much research you do, you can still get screwed in the end.


Is that the toilet that has the flush tower in the middle of the tank and they advertised it being able to flush 2 dozen golf balls?
If it is we put one in about 10 years ago, when we redid our bathroom. We have had no problems with it other than replacing the fill valve, once!
It's never clogged up or overflowed and the way my wife goes through tp, it's miraculous.


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

futtyos said:


> I was unaware that 5 gallon buckets of behr paint came with a green spout from Lowes:
> 
> https://www.lowes.com/pd/Project-So...Pour-Spout-Fits-Bucket-Size-5-Gallon/50094746
> 
> By the way, I have this green spout from Lowes and it comes out of the bucket when pouring paint.


Did you pour into a cup? Thats what they recommend this for.:biggrin:


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Hee Hee hee! Here is the first one!
https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit...-action-lawsuit-says-behr-deckover-defective/


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## zoomermp (Jun 8, 2017)

My take on Behr Paint. Having used a substantial portion of it years ago as a comparison to Ben Moore or Sherwin-Williams I discovered that you actually do not make money when you use Behr paint because it is inferior to been more. There's always going to be an issue here or there on touch-up or durability or coverage of Behr paint. When I completely devoted my business to using nothing but Ben Moore paint then profits increased substantially. We tracked all of the projects where we used Behr Paint and discovered that very few of the projects that we exclusively used Behr Paint on came out without any flaws. Plus tracking the amount of time spent on a job with an equal job using Ben Moore than we found out that Ben Moore paint helped us to finish the jobs faster cleaner and with a more satisfied customer. In the end if a contractor really values his customer and is very picky about his craftsmanship then in my opinion he will switch to Ben Moore paint where he will find everything will be better in life using a better product.


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## loaded brush (Dec 27, 2007)

PACman said:


> Hee Hee hee! Here is the first one!
> https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit...-action-lawsuit-says-behr-deckover-defective/[/
> 
> Happens to all big companies.
> ...


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*BM Ultra-Spec*



zoomermp said:


> My take on Behr Paint. Having used a substantial portion of it years ago as a comparison to Ben Moore or Sherwin-Williams I discovered that you actually do not make money when you use Behr paint because it is inferior to been more. There's always going to be an issue here or there on touch-up or durability or coverage of Behr paint. When I completely devoted my business to using nothing but Ben Moore paint then profits increased substantially. We tracked all of the projects where we used Behr Paint and discovered that very few of the projects that we exclusively used Behr Paint on came out without any flaws. Plus tracking the amount of time spent on a job with an equal job using Ben Moore than we found out that Ben Moore paint helped us to finish the jobs faster cleaner and with a more satisfied customer. In the end if a contractor really values his customer and is very picky about his craftsmanship then in my opinion he will switch to Ben Moore paint where he will find everything will be better in life using a better product.


What has your experience been using Ultra-Spec?

futtyos


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

loaded brush said:


> PACman said:
> 
> 
> > Hee Hee hee! Here is the first one!
> ...


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