# Help on exterior wood door



## HorizonPainting (Apr 1, 2011)

A recent customer asked me to refinish his wooden front door. I really don't have a lot of experience on refinishing. Any suggestions on this one? It gets a lot of sun and looks pretty dried out in a few places.. I was thinking strip it and give it a few coats of Pittsburgh Sun Proof stain and then a coat of polyurethane. Also, it will just be the exterior, so can this be done without removing the door?


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## StevenH (Sep 7, 2009)

Strip it off
Then Use scotch pad scrub and clean with acetone or lacquer thinner.
Wipe of with rag.
And sand.

I am not familiar with that stain but

After stain, apply coat of spar varnish.
Apply minimum 5 coats. 220 grit between coats.


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## BADPIG (Sep 5, 2008)

StevenH said:


> Strip it off
> Then Use scotch pad scrub and clean with acetone or lacquer thinner.
> Wipe of with rag.
> And sand.
> ...


 
I agree...Get that door as clean as possible and then stain/protect to desired look. They are a bit of work but look awesome when redone correctly.

James


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

I like to remove them, easier to work on, but either way will work. I like to use a stain with uv protection like sikkens 123, that way it will last. not a hard job job, just time consuming. I would allow almost a full day just to strip and clean the door. Wich is way more then enough time for most people. Tape off the glass is a good idea, and remove the hardware, take before and after pictures. Put a plastic walll so bugs dont get in and ho will be thankfull.


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## ligboozer (Oct 13, 2009)

Dave Mac said:


> I like to remove them, easier to work on, but either way will work. I like to use a stain with uv protection like sikkens 123, that way it will last. not a hard job job, just time consuming. I would allow almost a full day just to strip and clean the door. Wich is way more then enough time for most people. Tape off the glass is a good idea, and remove the hardware, take before and after pictures. Put a plastic walll so bugs dont get in and ho will be thankfull.


 

My prefered method as well, cover some sawhorses with clean drops, lay the door on those and get started.


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## mpminter (Mar 21, 2011)

I refinished some 100+ year old oak doors on a store front in my town a few years ago. The customer didn't want stain, but it took every bit of 5 coats of spar varnish to get a finish I was happy with. I find that you don't necessarily need to sand between each coat as long as your varnish is clean and the finish doesn't pick up any crap while it's still tacky. You DEFINITELY need to sand before the 5th coat, and make sure you wipe the door down good with a rag dampened in mineral spirits or a tack cloth. What do you guys like to use for a stripper?


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## sagebrush123 (Mar 11, 2011)

any sikkens product like cetol is so amazing....I would look forward to this job for sure....

this would be a great before and after photo.


have fun!


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## StevenH (Sep 7, 2009)

mpminter said:


> I refinished some 100+ year old oak doors on a store front in my town a few years ago. The customer didn't want stain, but it took every bit of 5 coats of spar varnish to get a finish I was happy with. I find that you don't necessarily need to sand between each coat as long as your varnish is clean and the finish doesn't pick up any crap while it's still tacky.


How is it not possible to get dust onto the door?


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## StevenH (Sep 7, 2009)

StevenH said:


> How is it not possible to get dust onto the door?


Sanding between coats of varnish is important because it achieves two things: First, it knocks down the "high spots" and second, but more importantly, it provides a tooth for the next coat to adhere to. Otherwise, the subsequent coats can delaminate and lift off in large sheets. This can be seen as large bubbles that appear with time, but where there is still a varnish layer underneath.


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## Roamer (Jul 5, 2010)

If after stripping the old finish off the door there are still some blackish discoloration in the door it may be necessary to use Oxalic Acid (wood bleach) to get rid of those stains.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Stained it today, will clear it Saturday if I can get the blotches sorted. UV damage at the bottom half is severe. I have so much video I need to process, and get uploaded.


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## mpminter (Mar 21, 2011)

StevenH said:


> Sanding between coats of varnish is important because it achieves two things: First, it knocks down the "high spots" and second, but more importantly, it provides a tooth for the next coat to adhere to. Otherwise, the subsequent coats can delaminate and lift off in large sheets. This can be seen as large bubbles that appear with time, but where there is still a varnish layer underneath.


maybe you're right, but I did those doors 5 years ago and they still look decent (they are on a storefront on my street so I see them all the time). Admittedly, after 5 years they are in serious need of a maintenance coat or two, but there are certainly no bubbles or finish coming off in sheets. From what I've heard, as long as the additional coats are applied within a certain time window, there is chemical adhesion as well as mechanical adhesion. But then again, that could be totally false and I've just always gotten lucky


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> Stained it today, will clear it Saturday if I can get the blotches sorted. UV damage at the bottom half is severe. I have so much video I need to process, and get uploaded.
> 
> YouTube - Johnson Home Construction Door refinishing Wilmington NC


I think I would have bleached that door. Lower center panels need brightened badly. Have you ever tried wood bleach before for that type of work? Probably need oxalic acid but might get by with a/b peroxide. Oxalic wont affecting the natural color of the wood, rather target the water stain. A/B peroxide will change the color.


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## HorizonPainting (Apr 1, 2011)

StevenH said:


> Strip it off
> Then Use scotch pad scrub and clean with acetone or lacquer thinner.
> Wipe of with rag.
> And sand.
> ...


What application method is preferable on a door like this? Spray, brush, roll?

Thanks for the help..I think I'm going to give it a shot. I will post the after pics.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> I think I would have bleached that door. Lower center panels need brightened badly. Have you ever tried wood bleach before for that type of work? Probably need oxalic acid but might get by with a/b peroxide. Oxalic wont affecting the natural color of the wood, rather target the water stain. A/B peroxide will change the color.


 Those center panels at the bottom are an issue. I just think there was so much UV damage down there that it opened up the grain. That is why its dark, it took more stain than the top half. After stripping and before stain was applied it was a lot lighter than the rest of the door.

I was on another job today, and will get back there tomorrow. You can see some fuzzies towards the bottom as well after stain was applied, I checked the door after my guy finished sanding, and it appeared ready to stain. Don't know how I am gonna approach fixing this yet.


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## StevenH (Sep 7, 2009)

HorizonPainting said:


> What application method is preferable on a door like this? Spray, brush, roll?
> 
> Thanks for the help..I think I'm going to give it a shot. I will post the after pics.



Best way to apply stain is to spray, because it gets on the surface evenly.
Best way to apply varnish is brushing it on.


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## Drunk Painter (Apr 29, 2011)

*Door Stripping*

Always strip doors on saw horses, remove door locks, cover stained glass with plastic and tape. 
Use strip eze stripper in a area out of the sun it will not work in the sun or in the very cold, use wide knife and putty knife carefully to remove old varnish and stain, apply more stripper material, use scotch brite pads to scrub with stripper on it, when you feel most or all of the old varnish and stain is gone use more stripper and saw dust and the scrubbing pads to remove more old varnish. Now get denatured alcohol to neutralize the remaining stripper, pour it all over the door and scrub with pads and saw dust, do this a few times and it will clean the door. Hang the door up and allow to dry. Next day apply your one coat of oil penetrating stain and allow to dry (do not apply spar varnish the next day, allow to dry one extra day), Use High Gloss Spar oil base varnish, thin the first coat (thin) and skip a day as well for the second. The second coat apply spar varnish not as thin (sand between coats lightly and be careful not to cut through the varnish and disturb the stain coat) and apply the final coat of spar and this will be beautiful. I always tell my customers to call me back in a year and I will apply two more coats of spar varnish on the door to protect it form the sun. Hope this helps. Remember the saw dust is a good trick and skipping days on re finishing doors is the right thing to do as well.


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## Drunk Painter (Apr 29, 2011)

I have been painting for 30 years in older homes in the new orleans area, my family business has been around since the early thirties and I learned from the old pros.


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## Drunk Painter (Apr 29, 2011)

Forgot one thing---do not spray stain on the door, brush it on and wipe it off with a clean cotton rag to remove the excess.


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## Drunk Painter (Apr 29, 2011)

Sorry fellows I will go on and on. Do not use steel wool, it will rust it left behind. use 220 grit paper to sand the door or finer paper after stripping and between your coats of varnish (also do not sand after you stain the door, just apply the first thin coat of spar varnish). I have re finished many doors in my years painting...


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

StevenH said:


> Sanding between coats of varnish is important because it achieves two things: First, it knocks down the "high spots" and second, but more importantly, it provides a tooth for the next coat to adhere to. Otherwise, the subsequent coats can delaminate and lift off in large sheets. This can be seen as large bubbles that appear with time, but where there is still a varnish layer underneath.


Oh student steven, it all depends on the product. Mechanical versus chemical adhesion are two different beasts....


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Mines came out nice. Homeowner almost broke my neck hugging me.  

Seven brushed coats on the trim and sidelights, four sprayed on the door.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Continued..

:thumbsup: On the minwax hybrid. It behaves pretty much like acrylic, but gives a better build. The brush coats sanded to powder with about an hour dry time.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Nice.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

Nicely done!


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Echo...


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## StevenH (Sep 7, 2009)

Did you apply outside with the Minwax modified?


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## ironwarrior (May 12, 2011)

I noticed you used the Minwax Product.
I know they have a prestain that helps provide a more even finish stain.
This helps reduce blotches and dark spots. It penetrates the woods pores reducing the amount of stain the large pores will absorb. Depending on the products that you select, it can work very well.




straight_lines said:


> Stained it today, will clear it Saturday if I can get the blotches sorted. UV damage at the bottom half is severe. I have so much video I need to process, and get uploaded.
> 
> YouTube - Johnson Home Construction Door refinishing Wilmington NC


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## StevenH (Sep 7, 2009)

Any wood that prone to blotch needs a wash coat.

Minwax oil base pre-condition is just thinned down varnish.
You can use any your favorite varnish and thinned it down with two part thinner. 

Their water base you can use any PVA glue with hot water.

Brush it on, let dry, sand, then apply several coats if needed.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Thanks for the tips guys, but as you can see in those pics above the results were satisfactory. I use pre stain on softer woods, this door and trim was mahogany.

@ ironwarrior if you want to read what I really thought of the minwax oil modified check out my review page. Pretty big cons there, but the outcome was pro because of the applicator.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

^^^^ Another benefit of blogging!


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## HorizonPainting (Apr 1, 2011)

*Before & after..*

Thanks for the help everyone. I finally finished the door. I think for my first try it went ok. There were still some problem areas, but I did learn a lot on this one. I went with Old Masters stain and Pratt & Lambert Spar varnish. I went with these due to availability. I also put 2 coats of protecta-coat on the door handle, which was very weathered.
Anyways, here are the pics.
















Thanks DrunkPainter! :thumbup:


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

That turned out very nice, I am sure the HO's are very pleased!


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

the door looks great but the dead bolt is crooked lol ................


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## Masterpiece (Feb 26, 2008)

Very nice job, did you end up using a brush, spraying or what exactly? Be proud of that job!


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## HorizonPainting (Apr 1, 2011)

Masterpiece said:


> Very nice job, did you end up using a brush, spraying or what exactly? Be proud of that job!


It was all brushed. I was happy with it..I think the finish would have been a lot nicer if I wasn't under a time constraint. I also underestimated the cost, but it was for a good customer.


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## acmasterpainter (May 15, 2011)

Some nice work and good tips.

Nobody mentioned a boat painter's trick - hot coating spar varnish. 3 thinned coats in a day, (when solvent has dried off, apply next coat) Then leave a day to harden over, then sand lightly before applying one full coat per day. The hot coats quickly build up the layers you need for spar varnish to withstand the sun, and protects the timber quickly too. 

On masts, 3 brush-applied hot coats is OK, but on a nice front door, I would consider brushing first coat to push it into the pores, and spraying 2nd and 3rd. All subsequent coats applied by brush.

I am all for prep, but sanding between every coat is counter-productive. Looks good but the thickness isn;t there at the end of the job. Sand each 3 coats.

If you can rig the door horizontal at a height so you can paint it from underneath, dust will not be an issue.

Applied 12 coats spar varnish on wooden masts. Epifanes lac put on with an epifanes oval hog hair brush was rather nice. OK to add maintenance coats about a year after the main work. (There is a pic of the masts half way down this post http://traditionalpainter.com/re-painting-34-wooden-boat

The best product without doubt is called Coelan, a microporous super anti UV 330% flexible polyurethane "varnish". Used it on a bowsprit, the material alone was $120/m2 but will go 5 years on the Med before a maintenance coat ie literally 2 or 3 times more durable than anything out there. Colours are a bit limited.


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## Different Strokes (Dec 8, 2010)

@HorizonPainting. Very nice job. May I ask how many hrs you had into it to complete the strip and refinish??


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## G. Borders (May 29, 2011)

*More work than most think*

I do some entry door refinishing. I think that to do it correctly, it is more work than most think.

To strip, I prefer to pull the door off of the hinges. Strip the original finish, sand, and clean the wood with denatured alcohol. Carefully stain using a premium stain. I don’t care for the big box products. Look foe General Finishes or similar. Application and wipe off is important for uniform color. Whenever possible, I like to use a gel stain, tack off the door and apply. I feel like I get a lot more control of the final color saturation.

Once stained, hurry up and wait. The stain should fry at least 8 hours prior to the application of the finish. I prefer overnight.

Finish, I use only spar urethane, and the good stuff. Again stay away from the stuff at the big box places. My experience is it doesn’t hole up as well or look as good.

The two finishes I like best are :

System Three
http://www.systemthree.com/store/pc/Spar-Urethane-Varnish-c28.htm


Epifanes
http://www.epifanes.com/products.html

The finish will go on in four to six coats with an overnight dry and vary light sanding between. The average project takes me about 6 – 8 visits from start to finish.

One of the best application processes I learned from The Wood Whisperer. He basically creates a wipe on spar by thinning the product and using a pad to wipe it on. Great looking finish, no brush marks, nice and flat finish. The drawback (yes there is always a drawback) is the spar is thinned and will require twice the number of coats to achieve the necessary build. 

Like I said much more work than most people think. Generally more costly than most people think.


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## HorizonPainting (Apr 1, 2011)

Different Strokes said:


> @HorizonPainting. Very nice job. May I ask how many hrs you had into it to complete the strip and refinish??


The whole thing took me about 4 hrs + drying times between coats. I used a marine grade stripper, which worked very fast. I think next time I'll thin the coats out more, had a few issues with bubbles on the trim. It was definately a learning experience.


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## HorizonPainting (Apr 1, 2011)

G. Borders said:


> I do some entry door refinishing. I think that to do it correctly, it is more work than most think.
> 
> To strip, I prefer to pull the door off of the hinges. Strip the original finish, sand, and clean the wood with denatured alcohol. Carefully stain using a premium stain. I don&#146;t care for the big box products. Look foe General Finishes or similar. Application and wipe off is important for uniform color. Whenever possible, I like to use a gel stain, tack off the door and apply. I feel like I get a lot more control of the final color saturation.
> 
> ...


I learned that the hard way, I had almost no profit from my first door. That spar varnish is expensive!


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