# Zinzer 123



## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Tuesday we got a gallon opened it up and it was cottage cheese, brought it back and this can was like pouring fluffernutter. Called the store back and they said the other cans were the same. I called the 888 number on the side and the guy I talked to said no way should it be like this. He said if the store wouldn't give us credit/refund they would but both myself and the store would have to file a claim with the shipper. Talk about deflecting. The store owner said to just use it. No this is a high end client and no way would I use a product that most likely froze a few times.

Needless to say the store gave us credit and we got a different primer product.

For 2 gallons to come out of a single store like that made me call our other go to store (paint deliveries same day) and theirs was the same. The biggest difference was the other store completely pulled the product to return it, the store we went to said they would just keep it and sell it.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

I would take my business to the OTHER store:yes:


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## Stonehampaintdept (Jan 10, 2013)

No way would I allow this to be on my shelf. I'd inspect every can of that product I had and re-order, file a claim with distributor and be done with it. It's not that hard of a situation, most distributors and manufacturers EXPECT a certain level of defective goods. Paint manufacturers (some of them) will keep records of instances like this on file and trace it back to batches.


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## Ric (Oct 26, 2011)

cdpainting said:


> Tuesday we got a gallon opened it up and it was cottage cheese, brought it back and this can was like pouring fluffernutter. Called the store back and they said the other cans were the same. I called the 888 number on the side and the guy I talked to said no way should it be like this. He said if the store wouldn't give us credit/refund they would but both myself and the store would have to file a claim with the shipper. Talk about deflecting. The store owner said to just use it. No this is a high end client and no way would I use a product that most likely froze a few times.
> 
> Needless to say the store gave us credit and we got a different primer product.
> 
> For 2 gallons to come out of a single store like that made me call our other go to store (paint deliveries same day) and theirs was the same. The biggest difference was the other store completely pulled the product to return it, the store we went to said they would just keep it and sell it.


I agree with Chris - "go to the other store"...it is very irresponsible for the first store to attempt to sell a product with a known defect - that attitude has to make you wonder what other customer returns, and complaints, may have been passed on to you by these guys.

I also agree with Stonham, and would have all damaged/defective product removed from my shelves - it's not worth the liability exposure to keep, and sell, damaged product just to avoid the hassle of returning for credit.

In defense of Zinsser - A product like 1-2-3 is a hot commodity item for Zinsser - it is probably made in 6000 gallon (or greater) batches at a time. It is not realistic to believe that only a relative few gallons were the result of a manufacturing defect. From how you've described the product's appearance and performance - it is not un-realistic to believe the product has been frozen somewhere along the distribution trail. Unfortunately, and due to several changes legislated by environmental protection sources, the "freeze/thaw" stability of quality water-borne products are no longer what they once were. If that's the case, and at this point that is all Zinsser has to go on, that responsibility usually falls back on the distributor or trucking lines - in other words, not completely Zinsser's problem to correct, or issue credit for, without first addressing those responsible for the damage in the first place..thus the need for a damage claim. 

In my opinion, the store owner of the first store needs to be bitch-slapped for even suggesting you continue to use the product - As a professional, I think you know that if you did so, any subsequent liability ultimately falls back on your shoulders. I personally believe that, in this case, Zinsser would even perfer, and expect, you to return the damaged product to the place of purchase - even if it meant using a product of a different manufacturer to complete your job.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Zinsser most likely has records of that particular batch. Maybe even a sample during QA/QC to determine product consistency. So I doubt they're concerned about liability. This most likely falls on the shipping company, but ultimately, is the responsibility of the store for signing off that the product was received in good order.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

CApainter said:


> Zinsser most likely has records of that particular batch. Maybe even a sample during QA/QC to determine product consistency. So I doubt they're concerned about liability. This most likely falls on the shipping company, but ultimately, is the responsibility of the store for signing off that the product was received in good order.


This time of the year, it seems like they need to start sending shipments out with these:

http://www.shockwatch.com/products/temperature-indicators/coldmark-2/

We did one NC house where all of the client-supplied paint had been cold damaged. It looked like cottage cheese and smelled like sour milk.


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## Stonehampaintdept (Jan 10, 2013)

Gough said:


> This time of the year, it seems like they need to start sending shipments out with these:
> 
> http://www.shockwatch.com/products/temperature-indicators/coldmark-2/
> 
> We did one NC house where all of the client-supplied paint had been cold damaged. It looked like cottage cheese and smelled like sour milk.


good idea, but remember their will be products sitting in distribution channels for weeks / months so it would have to be almost a year round practice raising cost of the bottom line.


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

cdpainting said:


> Tuesday we got a gallon opened it up and it was cottage cheese, brought it back and this can was like pouring fluffernutter. Called the store back and they said the other cans were the same. I called the 888 number on the side and the guy I talked to said no way should it be like this. He said if the store wouldn't give us credit/refund they would but both myself and the store would have to file a claim with the shipper. Talk about deflecting. The store owner said to just use it. No this is a high end client and no way would I use a product that most likely froze a few times.
> 
> Needless to say the store gave us credit and we got a different primer product.
> 
> For 2 gallons to come out of a single store like that made me call our other go to store (paint deliveries same day) and theirs was the same. The biggest difference was the other store completely pulled the product to return it, the store we went to said they would just keep it and sell it.


You're a "problem magnet". It's incredible. You must be an extremely patient guy.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

epretot said:


> You're a "problem magnet". It's incredible. You must be an extremely patient guy.


I am. I like the owner he is a nice guy but that doesn't mean much if his sales people can't do their jobs. This is the store I have said can't mix paint good. With this snow the drive to the other store is twice as long. 

They did credit us. We picked up BM Sure Seal.


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## STAR (Nov 26, 2010)

Who uses primer anyway:laughing:


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

STAR said:


> Who uses primer anyway:laughing:


Only when we don't remove door knobs and outlet cover plates.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

cdpainting said:


> I am. I like the owner he is a nice guy but that doesn't mean much if his sales people can't do their jobs. This is the store I have said can't mix paint good. With this snow the drive to the other store is twice as long.
> 
> They did credit us. We picked up BM Sure Seal.


The owner of the small Mom & Pop I did time at was a real nice guy - charming. But he was still a drunk pot head who didn't have a clue how to run an honest business. 

Schit, if all it took was being a nice guy to run a successful business . . . .


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

For a moment I thought Al Barrington was back.


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## STAR (Nov 26, 2010)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> For a moment I thought Al Barrington was back.


What happened to that guy?


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Can't believe the first store would even consider selling it like that, much less recommend you use it... that's heinous.

Ben Moore is the same way with frozen paint (it gets charged to the trucking company), however they're nice enough to do the charging for us. We just call, tell them what was frozen, and they handle the rest and come pick it up.

Hell, I'm not even comfortable with product that had a little ring of ice around the top that thawed with no chunks in it at all. I wouldn't even give paint that was "pouring fluffernutter" away (we give mistints and stuff to a charity rather than pitch it, not bad product though). That goes straight in the trash/back to manufacturer.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

STAR said:


> What happened to that guy?


Last I heard, he ran with my idea for a chin tray, made a fortune, and lives in Guatelajara Mexico where he employs a small team of local engineers that are developing a mobile step ladder that incorporates Segway technology.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

CApainter said:


> Last I heard, he ran with my idea for a chin tray, made a fortune, and lives in *Guadalajara* Mexico where he employs a small team of local engineers that are developing a mobile step ladder that incorporates Segway technology.


Fixed it for you.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> Fixed it for you.


I should know that since my grandmother was born there.


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

It was most likely frozen. But I have heard of products that react similarly to that when the ammonia percentage is too low. Don't know if 123 has ammonia in it or not, though.

Supposedly, when that is the case, if you keep mixing in ammonia a little bit at a time it will take it back to normal. Might at least be worth a try if you have ammonia handy and are a long ways from the store(s).


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