# House with smoke smell



## buddy26 (Dec 17, 2011)

Im giving a bid on a job that had a flu fire in it and now the house has the smoke smell in it no smoke damage on it. Will a person have to prime the entire house to get the smell out or just paint it. The lady wants the walls, ceilings, and trim all painted now due to the smell. Just wanting some input on this Thanks


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## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

BIN it then paint it.


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## Builtmany (Dec 5, 2009)

The smell is embedded in everything not just the painted surfaces.


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## pacificpainters.com (May 5, 2011)

I think Builtmany has a point, real challenge, the smell will be in more then just the paintable surfaces. It is pretty hard to avoid using a stain sealer in most cases as I have found that sometimes it is not until you are along a bit that you notice the stain coming through a bit. Then you have to spend time going back over your work again.

Better to apply a stain sealer to all surfaces, what brand is something I can't say as I am not familiar with the products you have access to.

I have used BIN once, I thought it was a great product.

I have heard of odour eating paint, perhaps Google-it and see what might be available in your area. Here is one I found just searching it - http://www.sto.co.uk/60073_EN-Senses_Campaign-Smell.htm


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Don't lead her into thinking that priming and painting will eliminate the smell. It will help but as was previously noted it will have permeated any soft surface in the area. Furniture, carpeting, window treatments, clothing, etc, will have to be treated. Even all the hard surfaces will need it. Having a disaster restoration company in to do the cleaning and odor removal while you handle the priming and painting would be advisable. However, if I were you, I'd try to get a signed contract for the painting ASAP so the DR company doesn't try and take it away from you.


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## Brian C (Oct 8, 2011)

I do work like this all the time. Homeowners that are smokers or an open fireplace in the house can cause smoke staining through the paint.
Just wash down with sugar-soap and 2 topcoats of flat enamel. No need to worry about stain sealer.


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## Seattlepainting (Jun 8, 2010)

*BIN 123 Video*

Smoke will penetrate all substrates. Use Shellac Primer such as Bin 123. This project the GWB was removed and all the framing/studs were primed.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Brian C said:


> I do work like this all the time. Homeowners that are smokers or an open fireplace in the house can cause smoke staining through the paint.
> Just wash down with sugar-soap and 2 topcoats of flat enamel. No need to worry about stain sealer.


 
:blink: what is that?:blink:

sorry about the b, my mistake,I was just wondering what sugar soap was, now I know


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## TNpainter (Dec 7, 2011)

What BS indeed talk like that I wouldn't let him paint a doghouse for me


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## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

TNpainter said:


> What BS indeed talk like that I wouldn't let him paint a doghouse for me


ah come on, least he'd wash it down first!:whistling2:


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## BioZapp Labs (Dec 30, 2011)

Buddy26,
Please call me 860-673-7412.
I have a method and a product for you to eliminate the smoke odor without having to paint/prime the entire house.
You'll eliminate the smoke odor as your first step, then you will be able to paint as you normally would.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Brian C said:


> I do work like this all the time. Homeowners that are smokers or an open fireplace in the house can cause smoke staining through the paint.
> Just wash down with sugar-soap and 2 topcoats of flat enamel. No need to worry about stain sealer.





chrisn said:


> :blink: what bis that?:blink:


Used commonly in the UK, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, it's somewhat similar to TSP. At least that's what my search turned up.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

TNpainter said:


> What BS indeed talk like that I wouldn't let him paint a doghouse for me


 come on guys thats a sweet treat.


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## buddy26 (Dec 17, 2011)

The bin does it work on all surfaces. The house has stained trim in it and she wants all of it painted as well. Also has popcorn ceilings which i normally will spray with oil base primer before paint but will the bin work on it as well. Thanks


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

buddy26 said:


> The bin does it work on all surfaces. The house has stained trim in it and she wants all of it painted as well. Also has popcorn ceilings which i normally will spray with oil base primer before paint but will the bin work on it as well. Thanks


 Yes yes yes but wear respirator potent stuff.


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## Holly (Jun 14, 2011)

Give this a try--I was AMAZED!!!! You said there was no actual smoke damage--I assume no visible damage? 

Rent an ozone machine.

I rented out a house as no smoking, and when I evicted the tenants after 3 months of heavy smoking, I hired a cleaning service for $500 to wash down the walls, floors, clean the carpets--and the smell was still there.

I rented an ozone machine from Handyman rental for $25 and ran it for 24 hours in a 1200 sq ft house (all living creatures must vacate the premises). I came in the next day, turned off the machine, and the smell was gone. For good. 

I still can't believe it. Best 25 bucks I ever spent.

If it is a bigger house, you could rent a machine for each floor (my place was a 2-storey cape with good air flow).


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## Holly (Jun 14, 2011)

Try googling "ozone machine rental," also, here is a link about another person's experience with ozone rental--has further important safety information about using a machine. 

http://www.mothering.com/community/...he-smell-of-smoke-from-a-fire-out-of-my-house

Hit the "page down" button 3x to get to tinuviel_k with a photo of a parrot as the avatar.

I am jumping up and down, practically, with the urgency of my desire for you to rent an ozone machine. This is the single most useful piece of information I will probably ever share on Painttalk.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Holly said:


> Try googling "ozone machine rental," also, here is a link about another person's experience with ozone rental--has further important safety information about using a machine.
> 
> http://www.mothering.com/community/...he-smell-of-smoke-from-a-fire-out-of-my-house
> 
> ...


Settle down Holly! Settle down! You practically got me jumping too! Jeesh!


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## Holly (Jun 14, 2011)

It's like in grade school, waving your arm 12 feet up into the air, and the teacher doesn't see you--"Oooo! Oooo! I know it! I know it! Pick me! Pick me!!"


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Holly said:


> It's like in grade school, waving your arm 12 feet up into the air, and the teacher doesn't see you--"Oooo! Oooo! I know it! I know it! Pick me! Pick me!!"


Oh yeah. I know that reaction all too well. :yes:


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## Holly (Jun 14, 2011)

researchhound said:


> Oh yeah. I know that reaction all too well. :yes:


Landsman!


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## Brian C (Oct 8, 2011)

TNpainter said:


> What BS indeed talk like that I wouldn't let him paint a doghouse for me


I don't know what planet you are on buddy saying that ! Oil based flat enamel works a treat over any water stains and smoke stains. Sorry you never heard of sugar soap but its an industrial detergent cleaner.


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## pacificpainters.com (May 5, 2011)

researchhound said:


> Used commonly in the UK, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, it's somewhat similar to TSP. At least that's what my search turned up.


Your correct Dan, it is tri-sodium phosphate. I don't think I have ever heard a painter call it by its proper name in Australia. But I have always made it a point to make sure my students understand the correct chemical names.

Never understood why it was called sugar soap though. :icon_confused:


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## pacificpainters.com (May 5, 2011)

Hi Brian, I think one of the problems I can see with alkyd paints (apart from the relentless smell that stays on for weeks) is the inability for the hydrocarbons to sustain biocides and the feeding frenzy that mould (mold in the US) takes when it gets a hold on the oils in the alkyd.

I know in my environment here an alkyd surface would be black with mould in a couple of months.

Maybe it is not a problem in Victoria though.


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## Brian C (Oct 8, 2011)

pacificpainters.com said:


> Hi Brian, I think one of the problems I can see with alkyd paints (apart from the relentless smell that stays on for weeks) is the inability for the hydrocarbons to sustain biocides and the feeding frenzy that mould (mold in the US) takes when it gets a hold on the oils in the alkyd.
> 
> I know in my environment here an alkyd surface would be black with mould in a couple of months.
> 
> Maybe it is not a problem in Victoria though.


Thanks for the clarification Michael. I don't even know if the Yanks are aware of flat enamel and sugar-soap. I guess us painters in 3rd world countries are idiots.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

pacificpainters.com said:


> Your correct Dan, it is tri-sodium phosphate. I don't think I have ever heard a painter call it by its proper name in Australia. But I have always made it a point to make sure my students understand the correct chemical names.
> 
> Never understood why it was called sugar soap though. :icon_confused:


Hi Michael,
Again, according to what searches turn up, when the three sodiums (carbonate, phosphate, and silicate) are mixed the resulting powder resembles sugar. 

I'd honestly never heard the term "sugar soap" before this and it appears it's name is simply a cultural/geographical thing. Apparently in many places it's common for individuals to make it themselves and sometimes sugar is added to create a lathering effect. So perhaps that has contributed to the name as well.


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## Laz (Nov 14, 2010)

My house is a duplex. I rented out the apartment to a couple not knowing they were chain smokers. I didn't have a problem with renter smoking before because a good cleaning of everything and a repaint took care of the problem. Not this time! Cleaned it twice and repainted but if I left the apt. for a day and came back in It would hit me like a brick. 
They did a ton of other damage and I haven't rented it out now for some time. I will be checking into the ozone generator to get that smell out.

Do you think it matters that the walls were pained over before using such a machine?


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## pacificpainters.com (May 5, 2011)

Brian C said:


> Thanks for the clarification Michael. I don't even know if the Yanks are aware of flat enamel and sugar-soap. I guess us painters in 3rd world countries are idiots.


I just think the terminology is different in different countries. The term Enamel relates more to the fact that the paint has a harder finish when dry. That is why most of the painters there use the expression alkyd.

I just know that the alkyd paints are pretty much all but gone in the US, (am I correct in saying that, all you gang form there). The technology of an oxidising paint has been replaced with the better performing, lower VOC, mould resistant, faster drying, easier to apply and longer lasting latex. 

So I think you got a bit of stick which I think was meant as a bit of a stir, because none of them would use an alkyd to paint the interior of a house.

But you are right, alkyd binders are very good sealers, and you would not necessarily need a stain sealer if you were using an alkyd paint. However, the thought of not using a priming coat would be controversial to many.


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## pacificpainters.com (May 5, 2011)

researchhound said:


> Hi Michael,
> Again, according to what searches turn up, when the three sodiums (carbonate, phosphate, and silicate) are mixed the resulting powder resembles sugar.
> 
> I'd honestly never heard the term "sugar soap" before this and it appears it's name is simply a cultural/geographical thing. Apparently in many places it's common for individuals to make it themselves and sometimes sugar is added to create a lathering effect. So perhaps that has contributed to the name as well.


Great explanation Dan, I should have been less lazy and researched it my self. But that is why you call your self research hound isn't it?


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## Zippo (Feb 1, 2012)

*Smoke Smell*



buddy26 said:


> Im giving a bid on a job that had a flu fire in it and now the house has the smoke smell in it no smoke damage on it. Will a person have to prime the entire house to get the smell out or just paint it. The lady wants the walls, ceilings, and trim all painted now due to the smell. Just wanting some input on this Thanks


Ozone is oxygen but in a different form. It contains three oxygen molecules and not two. The third molecule can detach and apply itself to other chemicals or substances. This ability to attach to other substances means the ozone is able to alter these substances. In your case the source of the odor. 

When you get ready to paint add a product called air-renu, this will keep negative ions circulating, thus keep the odor from resurfacing. Good Luck. Vinnie The Painter


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Zippo said:


> Ozone is oxygen but in a different form. It contains three oxygen molecules and not two. The third molecule can detach and apply itself to other chemicals or substances. This ability to attach to other substances means the ozone is able to alter these substances. In your case the source of the odor.
> 
> When you get ready to paint add a product called air-renu, this will keep negative ions circulating, thus keep the odor from resurfacing. Good Luck. Vinnie The Painter


Ozone is "O(3)". Oxygen is "O(2)" . For what it's worth...


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## Zippo (Feb 1, 2012)

Cigarette smoke and all the harmful chemicals contained in that smoke seem to disappear after a few moments. You can't see the smoke any more. But the particles have just dispersed into the air, and are invisible. If you can smell the smoke, the particles are still there. Suggest renting an ozone generator let it run for 24 hours, make sure the house is empty and run the fan only on the thermostat this will insure getting the ozone through the duct work. When your ready, to paint add air-renu a paint additive this will keep the positive and negative in balance. Hope this helps Vinnie the painter


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## QUIP (Feb 13, 2012)

Do people still deionized rooms to get rid of smells or is that a scam? Because if the smell is in the room, it' s in the carpet and furniture. Paint can't take care of that.


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## TNpainter (Dec 7, 2011)

Brian C said:


> I don't know what planet you are on buddy saying that ! Oil based flat enamel works a treat over any water stains and smoke stains. Sorry you never heard of sugar soap but its an industrial detergent cleaner.


Yeah I'm on Mars that "sugar soap" must have gotten to ya roflmao yeah its TSP trisodium phosphate. A mild detergent mixed with water or bleach for cleaning purposes. Now when u say flat enamel is miss leading because enamel doesn't mean oil..... so. With that said there's plenty of oil in the states. Glyptex,pro classic but people got to take there ass to a PAINT STORE!!! Not some DIY homeowner trap where the employs are complete morons and a disgrace to the trade


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## vrvs (Feb 22, 2013)

*Smoking and pet urine odors*

Our investor group is involved in buying and rejuvenating foreclosure homes; most of the properties have been unoccupied for a year or more. Stale air, smoking and pet odors can get quite bad. Selling a house with odor problems takes longer and affects the resale value. Painting the interior does not remove all odors as the odors are embedded in the walls, carpets, carpet pads and duct work. A painting contractor mentioned a product called, Air-ReNu a paint additive, turns any painted wall surface, into a permanent air, purification system no electricity or filters required. We now use, Air-ReNu on every interior paint job. Has anyone else used this product?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

vrvs said:


> Our investor group is involved in buying and rejuvenating foreclosure homes; most of the properties have been unoccupied for a year or more. Stale air, smoking and pet odors can get quite bad. Selling a house with odor problems takes longer and affects the resale value. Painting the interior does not remove all odors as the odors are embedded in the walls, carpets, carpet pads and duct work. A painting contractor mentioned a product called, Air-ReNu a paint additive, turns any painted wall surface, into a permanent air, purification system no electricity or filters required. We now use, Air-ReNu on every interior paint job. Has anyone else used this product?


No need to whisper, just shout out your discovery. ABTW-Bin works really well.

And don't judge me because I unknowingly THANKED a year old post!


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## workin'man (Jan 18, 2013)

I believe ozone is the best way to remove the smell. As it was explained to me.... ozone is an unstable molecule. It wants to convert to o2 so when it does the other oxygen particle grabs the impurity.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

workin'man said:


> I believe ozone is the best way to remove the smell. As it was explained to me.... ozone is an unstable molecule. It wants to convert to o2 so when it does the other oxygen particle grabs the impurity.


I wonder if it really works? Have you every tried this? or has anybody else?

Pat


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Is it just me or does post #35 seem like some real tasty spam?


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## ComRemodel (Dec 11, 2007)

PatsPainting said:


> I wonder if it really works? Have you every tried this? or has anybody else?
> 
> Pat


I did some work for one of those disaster recovery/smoke damage outfits and guess what? Ozone generators are what they use after they clean up. They even took the customers furniture away to have it "cleaned" and all they did was put it in a room in their shop with an ozone generator for a day or so. So yeah, it works. That's what they are made for.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

ComRemodel said:


> I did some work for one of those disaster recovery/smoke damage outfits and guess what? Ozone generators are what they use after they clean up. They even took the customers furniture away to have it "cleaned" and all they did was put it in a room in their shop with an ozone generator for a day or so. So yeah, it works. That's what they are made for.


That's good to know. Not sure I want to purchase one of those things as it's rare for me to run into these type of houses but maybe there are places that rent them.

Pat


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

PatsPainting said:


> That's good to know. Not sure I want to purchase one of those things as it's rare for me to run into these type of houses but maybe there are places that rent them.
> 
> Pat


There are. I've rented them a few times. Great for lots of different odors.


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## workin'man (Jan 18, 2013)

PatsPainting said:


> I wonder if it really works? Have you every tried this? or has anybody else?
> 
> Pat


I learned this from a smoke specialist. Did a 6k sq foot house it works. He used an ozone bomb. My dad uses small generators to remove smell from cars.


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## Greg Mrakich (Apr 19, 2010)

Ozone bomb. Neutralizes smoke smell. Have used it on several fire jobs. Works for hard and soft surfaces. Google it. It is amazing.


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