# Sherwin Williams ProClassic Acrylic/Alkyd



## jack pauhl

I did a quick search for it but found only a couple mentions in other threads. We are using it on one of the houses now for trim work.

What are you using under it? Have you notice the variations of gloss under various primers? Holy crap! The paint needs a two part system to achieve best gloss. We are using semi-gloss over poplar that got primed twice with Zinsser Cover Stain Oil. Its a PITA to spread unfooledaroundwith a brush but it left no trace it was applied with a brush when it was dry. Literally there was no difference in brush vs sprayed items. Dries superfast and tight! 

What say you on this product?

Speaking of ridiculous reviews, I found this one on ProClassic. 
<nip>
Not impressed, August 30, 2010
By somechic

"We bought this paint to do our kitchen cabinets. We really didn't want to deal with the oil based clean-up. We have put two coats of it on the cabinets and are not happy with the way it goes on. It shows the brush marks very badly. The latex that we put on the trim gave a better, smoother finish. This may be one Sherwin-Williams product that we take back to get our money back. We are a little bummed that we put so much work in to sanding and priming the cabinets to have them come out looking not so good."
<tuck>

Dear By Somechic, ummm that wouldnt have a damn thing to do with the paint.. I PROMISE!


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## ProWallGuy

Last time I used it was about 4-5 years ago, but recall finding it very similar to the WB Satin Impervo. Dried faster though.


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## jack pauhl

ProWallGuy said:


> Last time I used it was about 4-5 years ago, but recall finding it very similar to the WB Satin Impervo. Dried faster though.


Whats SI WB like today? Last I used it - it was thin and super fast to spread, stayed wet forever... I shot a whole house and went back to where I started and it was still wet. I like that. Workable. You can go back into it 15 mins later to play around with it and it dried down great. Is it still like that?


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## DeanV

I have only tried BM Advance with one qt. so far, but that product has impressed me so far with flow out. I only did one coat on 2 6-panel doors and had one of my guys to the rest. I need to run it through a little more testing yet, but so far I like it. I do have a good job to try it out more extensively hopefully starting late next week, but I will not be able to be the one spreading it unfortunately (one of the few times I wish I was doing the painting).


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## Paintuh4Life

ProWallGuy said:


> Last time I used it was about 4-5 years ago, but recall finding it very similar to the WB Satin Impervo. Dried faster though.


Proclassic Acrylic/Alkyd has only been around for about a year.


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## Paintuh4Life

jack pauhl said:


> What say you on this product?


I recently brushed all the woodwork on a 4000 Sq ft house (a re-paint, 15 yr old house), wainscoting and all. Scuff sanded it and put one coat of Proclassic Acrylic/Alkyd on it and it looked great. I did need to thin it slightly with XIM Latex Extender. I also re-sprayed some Laundry room cabinets with it and was very pleased with results, as were the homeowners. (Very particular folks, too). That's my 2 cents. :thumbsup:


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## straight_lines

jack pauhl said:


> Whats SI WB like today? Last I used it - it was thin and super fast to spread, stayed wet forever... I shot a whole house and went back to where I started and it was still wet. I like that. Workable. You can go back into it 15 mins later to play around with it and it dried down great. Is it still like that?


 No it isn't. I sprayed a bunch of doors today and it dried in less than an hour or two. I ran into a problem with an azek built in bench in a walk in and came back to find several rally bad sags.

The returns were done in the same stuff and I didn't have any issues with them, but they were brushed. I may have shot it to heavy.


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## jack pauhl

Paintuh4Life said:


> I recently brushed all the woodwork on a 4000 Sq ft house (a re-paint, 15 yr old house), wainscoting and all. Scuff sanded it and put one coat of Proclassic Acrylic/Alkyd on it and it looked great. I did need to thin it slightly with XIM Latex Extender. I also re-sprayed some Laundry room cabinets with it and was very pleased with results, as were the homeowners. (Very particular folks, too). That's my 2 cents. :thumbsup:


Do you recall how much xim you added to a gal? I really try to leave paint alone and rarely will I fool with it but unless you execute your cuts methodically, ProClassic needs a bit of something to work larger areas.


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## jack pauhl

straight_lines said:


> No it isn't. I sprayed a bunch of doors today and it dried in less than an hour or two. I ran into a problem with an azek built in bench in a walk in and came back to find several rally bad sags.
> 
> The returns were done in the same stuff and I didn't have any issues with them, but they were brushed. I may have shot it to heavy.


But thats still good right? Plenty of time to work it? Oh I remember saggin up a place the first time I shot steels... I looked like I never painted before. Hows coverage on whites?


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## jack pauhl

Paintuh4Life said:


> Proclassic Acrylic/Alkyd has only been around for about a year.


He's new here.


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## johnpaint

like I have said before if you are using a brush painting small areas it's great but don't try brushing a door with it, it dries too fast. It does spray very nice though if you need that. I do think the color is very close to reg proclassic but not as much gloss. I hve wondered if it will yellow over time though.


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## Paradigmzz

This may sound stupid but I have much better results with the promar 200 than the proclssic in the waterborne alkyd. The classic skins up faster and slumps/ sags on vertical surfaces. I see a more consistent dry time (skin to inside) with the 200. I have shot cabinetry with ProClassic, checked it out 35 minutes later, actually somewhat dry on the skin to the touch so I walked away. Came back next morning with SAGS. Granted that was one of the first NC homes I used it on, so I was unfamiliar with the paints characteristics. There is a learning curve curve on spraying this product. I have found the 200 to be much more consistent and does not require as much babysitting if I may have been a little heavy handed on the trigger. :whistling2:

(The advantage with sags w this product is you can take a razor blade and cut them clean off the next day. )


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## ProWallGuy

Paintuh4Life said:


> Proclassic Acrylic/Alkyd has only been around for about a year.


Yikes, I missed the alkyd part. I was referring to the ProClassic Acrylic.


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## bikerboy

I sprayed some trim last week using a 212 ff tip and eight ounces of extender to a gallon. Worked nice and the trim was hard enough to sand lightly and second coat in about a half hour. (before you cry foul, I sanded a "loose" piece, just playing around)

Brushing it? I have always hated brushing Pro Classic. (oil or latex) I have the best luck (NOT good luck) applying thin coats of the product, which had been thinned. Don't plan on going back while it is wet.


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## jack pauhl

bikerboy said:


> I sprayed some trim last week using a 212 ff tip and eight ounces of extender to a gallon. Worked nice and the trim was hard enough to sand lightly and second coat in about a half hour. (before you cry foul, I sanded a "loose" piece, just playing around)
> 
> Brushing it? I have always hated brushing Pro Classic. (oil or latex) I have the best luck (NOT good luck) applying thin coats of the product, which had been thinned. Don't plan on going back while it is wet.


Good point. I noticed too going back into a piece curing over was a bad idea but surprisingly it blended fairly good. It's like the product wants to layer when you go back over it rather than blend into it.


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## Paintuh4Life

jack pauhl said:


> Do you recall how much xim you added to a gal? I really try to leave paint alone and rarely will I fool with it but unless you execute your cuts methodically, ProClassic needs a bit of something to work larger areas.


Not a lot at all. Maybe a splash (1/2 oz.) of XIM extender to a 1/4 or a 1/3 of a gallon.


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## aaron61

My guys use it every day,brush,roll & spray.No complaints.Dries fast,2nd coat fast,lays down nice,looks like it's been sprayed when brushed.


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## jack pauhl

aaron61 said:


> My guys use it every day,brush,roll & spray.No complaints.Dries fast,2nd coat fast,lays down nice,looks like it's been sprayed when brushed.


haha.. seriously if I had to use this stuff every day, you would hear some biching every day. I could never use this stuff as a regular trim paint. Its way too slow to move around. Its a production killa'. Does spray nice tho, I'll give it that.

I think before anything in paint I look for ease of use. If paint fails that portion, its a hard sell to me to use it for some other reason.


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## aaron61

I would be interested in an alternative.What interior SW trim paint would you use ? (semi-gloss)....super paint can stay sticky, I'm not sure 200 would be a good enough quality for trim ?


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## Paradigmzz

aaron61 said:


> I would be interested in an alternative.What interior SW trim paint would you use ? (semi-gloss)....super paint can stay sticky, I'm not sure 200 would be a good enough quality for trim ?



Aaron, you know we are talking about waterborne alkyd right?


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## aaron61

No, sorry! we just use the regular Pro Classic


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## jack pauhl

aaron61 said:


> I would be interested in an alternative.What interior SW trim paint would you use ? (semi-gloss)....super paint can stay sticky, I'm not sure 200 would be a good enough quality for trim ?


The only trim paint in the Sherwin Williams line-up that meets all my criteria is the 0 VOC Acrylic Pro Industrial B66 W 651 retail $75 but we dont have all the paints other markets have. 200 is too transparent, tacky when dry, poor adhesion among other things. Thats just me tho, I'm super picky about paints. It's not like there are many worthy of looking at in the SW line IMO. I stay away from SW like the plaque. Basically, if I'm using it, its not by my choice. You know I use BEHR ULTRA. Easy to use, superior leveling, stays wet to work, great coverage etc. all the good stuff. 


BEHR ULTRA


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## aaron61

Not to high jack a thread but isn't it a pain in the @ss to go to the big box & deal with their paint department??


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## jack pauhl

aaron61 said:


> Not to high jack a thread but isn't it a pain in the @ss to go to the big box & deal with their paint department??


For me, its a PITA to deal with SW. Apparently I have bigger expectations for product. When I have issues with product I dont get any resolution, just excuses or try this or that. I get answers I wouldnt tell an uneducated homeowner. I get the same ridiculous advice I see plaguing the internet. Is our local HD the same, you bet! So its 2 evils. If you're not a painter, you have no clue what you are selling. Period. SW opts for schooling over experience. When they get a great guy in there on a rare occasion, they dont take care of him and they leave. 

The ICI/Glidden Professional guys have come a long way over the years here. It feels like a contractor store, (both locations close to me) they are educated, they have answers, when they dont they get them fast. I wait there, I wait at SW I wait no matter where I go for paint and at times I deal with some stupidity. I guess the kind of questions I ask, those answers are generally relayed to a rep and the rep gets the answer. I need all the information paint companies dont publish. The questions you pry out of them in round-about ways.

I do my research prior to getting into a product so I rarely have a question when I go to get paint. Typically I use my contacts to get answers before I go. The only product I use from BEHR is ULTRA. I cant speak for anything else they sell except their solid wood stain which is awesome too.

Im sure SW stores vary location to location but thats what Im up against here.


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## aaron61

How many problem do you actually have? I've been in this business along time and have had very few!
Can't you call your paint in and have it waiting or delivered?


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## jack pauhl

aaron61 said:


> How many problem do you actually have? I've been in this business along time and have had very few!
> Can't you call your paint in and have it waiting or delivered?


Its been awhile since I was working with a builder who wanted SW paint, he was willing to pay for it so I agreed until it posed too much trouble which it did. It's like you tell the builder what will happen, they dont believe you, you use it, you end up showing the builder why I dont use it. I got tired of calling the rep. I got tired of compounding issues. It got so bad that no matter what I picked up, there was an issue. I had pages listed out, I met with someone from corp. Anything happen? Nope. 

I had paint and primer failures. One nasty one was oil base odorless on a repaint that wouldn't dry. Had the rep out, got a nice pump but that was embarrassing to go through with a homeowner when you come highly recommended and you have to hold their house hostage because of a product failure. Bringing in Zinsser to fix it. 

I'm sure I have that long list of issues that never got resolved. I'll look for the file and post them. All legit. Just like the 5150 project I'm working on, issues there and we only got into pre-production so far, you wait. Those things should never happen. SW is a company thats been around for 150+ years, they should be able to figure out how to produce a product for bare drywall that works, flawlessly. Seriously, there is no excuse for that BS. Look at the cost involved, look at what we are facing fixing it. It burns my [email protected]@ because I know better.


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## aaron61

Wow!...I can honestly say I have never had these issues.I'm really racking my brain trying to think of any?????


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## aaron61

Jack,in your Flicker/5150 pics why do I see a 5 of Pro Mar 400????
Also a couple of other SW's next to your trim???
Do you back roll your primer??


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## jack pauhl

aaron61 said:


> Jack,in your Flicker/5150 pics why do I see a 5 of Pro Mar 400????
> Also a couple of other SW's next to your trim???
> Do you back roll your primer??


We did the SW high build first, then the 400 primer as an extra precautionary step to ensure the high build was good. No backroll, its level 5

I'll PM you that list of issues, you'll be amazed then having no issues... its long.


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## jack pauhl

Doesnt that BEHR paint on the red cup make you want to touch it? Its like candy.


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## aaron61

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


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## jack pauhl

aaron61 said:


> Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


Oddly enough, I found those red cups or glossy photo card stock to be the best for representing true sheen. Gardz will get you there on walls but achieving true sheen on trim is a bit more difficult. I'm still not fully sold on a undercoat for trim paint. Ultimately I'd like to achieve full sheen with 1 primer and 1 finish then add that extra top coat for pure durability but I haven't found one yet. Which leads me to why we are trying Gardz on trim. I'll keep you all posted on that one. If its a fail, we'll know.


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## Wolfgang

I've never had anywhere near the list of problems with SW that you're talking about Jack. One of the things I did a few years ago was to switch from SW ProClassic to their Incredi-Coat product. It sprays, brushes, and levels, it seems, better than the ProClassic. And the finish is almost epoxy hard when dry. See if your rep can comp you a gal. to try out. The sheen has been about right on when used on different surfaces on a job. Should come in a few bucks cheaper a gal. also.


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## jack pauhl

Wolfgang said:


> I've never had anywhere near the list of problems with SW that you're talking about Jack. One of the things I did a few years ago was to switch from SW ProClassic to their Incredi-Coat product. It sprays, brushes, and levels, it seems, better than the ProClassic. And the finish is almost epoxy hard when dry. See if your rep can comp you a gal. to try out. The sheen has been about right on when used on different surfaces on a job. Should come in a few bucks cheaper a gal. also.


Hey wolf, see there is another product not local to us. I recall hearing about a few others on another forum over the years. We were able to get one in, mastercraft I believe. I'll inquire but yeah the issues list is endless. I sent it to aaron and that was just a small snapshot over a small period of time. Very costly issues for me. Issues that were literally costing more than the job paid at times.

Like I told aaron via PM, today I work with many contractors and these guys are using sw to some extent so its in my hands all the time. I see the same issues today as I experienced them when I was buying it for myself. Some guys are using it completely oblivious to any issues. If you dont know any better, its a non issue in other words. I'm certain the current ceiling issue we're having would go unnoticed in another contractors hands or just dismissed as acceptable or dismissed as thats a drywall issue. 

One example was Ext SuperPaint on factory primed steels. I can paint these all day long and say there is no issue, it worked great but until I pulled the tape off the weather strip and it peels back a solid film of paint completely from the door, thats when the issue is exposed. This happened time and time. I was able to peel all the paint from the lower 2 panels on a steel in 2 pieces (I know I have photos somewhere) completely exposing the factory primer. Never had that issue with any other paint, and I've used many on these same steels. I tried waiting a day too.

I think for me it comes down to using failsafe product you know and trust and then using something else that falls short of your trusting product. No matter what I do to that steel door, there was no getting that ext super satin to stick to it.


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