# Master Painters Institue Question



## sweet3 (Aug 20, 2017)

Hello everyone I’m just wondering if I can get some help understanding a section of document we are trying to bid for a Commercial Project, not the whole project just the Exterior Painting, there is no Interior paint to be done. The section we are looking at consist of Exterior Painting, which is the same name as the bolded part which says “EXTERIOR PAINTING”. 

The scope of the work consist of Structural Steel(EXT 5.1) and Metal Fabrications(EXT 5.1) and Galvanized steel(EXT 5.3H). 

For each element we have to apply a first coat, second coat and third coat. 

Now I have some quick questions:
First I’ve highlighted MPI #79, MPI #163, MPI #134, MPI #11.
What do these mean and where can I first information on MPI #79, MPI #163, MPI #134, MPI #11?


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## sweet3 (Aug 20, 2017)

Images uploaded.


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## kentdalimp (Aug 15, 2013)

MPI designations are really common on Specs in California. basically it's a 3rd party that has gone to a bunch of Architects/Specifiers and sold them on a system where MPI determined the "best" products for different applications. 

Now the Paint Manufacturer's (SW, PPG, P&L, Behr, etc.) have to pay money and submit materials to get approved in each of those MPI#'s. I think it's a racket, but it is very common around here.

All of the MPI approved paints are on the Specify Paint website. http://www.specifypaint.us/

The search function on the website sucks though, so it's easier to just type the MPI# into Google: MPI #79

This will take you to a list of all the paints that are approved in the MPI#79 rating. Now you have to pick one, submit it, and use it if it gets approved. 

Lots of guys give the list to their REP and have them figure it out. Problem is they may have 4 products approved for MPI#79 and try and have you use the most expensive. (Not always, but it's good to know what is available.)

In California, sometimes the approved products are not compliant with the local government, so you have to submit a different material anyway. 

Let me know if you have any more questions. I deal with this on a daily basis...


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## kentdalimp (Aug 15, 2013)

For Example, Here is what comes up on MPI#79. Now you have to pick an approved product.


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## sweet3 (Aug 20, 2017)

Thank you so much for explaining that to me. I have one more question if you don't mind. Instead of searching MPI#79 where can I see the MPI#'s in one page. 

On the page for MPI # 79 Primer, Alkyd, Anti-Corrosive for Metal; I have the option of clicking next(MPI#80) or back(MPI#78). 


For example if I was looking at MPI# 79 and I wanted go to see what MPI# 20 was like to see what MPI#20 was like I would have to go to google and type it in. Is there like a list or index of all the MPI#'s in one page?


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## kentdalimp (Aug 15, 2013)

sweet3 said:


> Thank you so much for explaining that to me. I have one more question if you don't mind. Instead of searching MPI#79 where can I see the MPI#'s in one page.
> 
> On the page for MPI # 79 Primer, Alkyd, Anti-Corrosive for Metal; I have the option of clicking next(MPI#80) or back(MPI#78).
> 
> ...


http://www.specifypaint.com/APL/paintinfo_APL_new/ProductIdxByMPInum.asp

There you go. Personally, I find it easier to search each one, but to each their own!


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## kmp (Jan 30, 2011)

Yup, it's a scam. Just another way for an architect to not do their job. Sherwin has a product guide that list the mpi number and the corresponding Sherwin product. I'm sure other companies have one similar. Useless and a time waster.


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## dwallon60 (Apr 22, 2018)

I would say it is a little simplistic to say that this is just a racket. It is a way to make sure that all are on the same playing field. All (or most) reputable paint suppliers can provide this information quite easily. For years, the spec would say "or equivalent" and painters would submit what a paint sales told them to submit. When it fails, who is holding the bag? (I think you know)


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

MPI isn't perfect but its the closest thing to an industry 'standard' that exists. Its great for when you have a decorina who wants a certain gloss level but doesn't like the word 'Satin'. Literally I had to make a custom label for a painter that removed the words 'satin' from the product. Maybe I should file that one under the 'things that make you go huh?' thread.


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## kentdalimp (Aug 15, 2013)

dwallon60 said:


> I would say it is a little simplistic to say that this is just a racket. It is a way to make sure that all are on the same playing field. All (or most) reputable paint suppliers can provide this information quite easily. For years, the spec would say "or equivalent" and painters would submit what a paint sales told them to submit. When it fails, who is holding the bag? (I think you know)


While I agree the premise is a good a idea, it's still very much a pay to play game. You have to pay for each product that you submit, and pay again if you submit that same product under a different MPI#. Most suppliers have multiple product they have submitted in each MPI# and pay for each one. Also you have to pay that fee on a yearly basis to stay listed for each product & MPI#.

As for having to submit a material that is equivalent, that is still a valid option. We will regularly try to submit materials as equal for the architect to approve. Typically it requires a letter from the Paint Manufacturer stating that the material is chemically the same. If the Architect won't accept it as an equal we can do a substitution, but that is a big NO for us. Too much liability if something goes wrong. 

It's not a perfect system, but it makes it easy for the architect to write a spec. However it always leads to arguments because the architect will submit an MPI# for a low sheen material, and have Semi-Gloss on the drawings. So now we get to explain to the architect that we are submitting Eggshell per the Specified MPI#, If you don't like it, change the spec.


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