# ProClassic Interior Waterbased Acrylic-Alkyd



## Mr Smith

ProClassic Interior Waterbased Acrylic-Alkyd

Has anyone used this paint for cabinets?

How does it compare to BM Advance?

Sherwin Williams claims this WB alkyd does not yellow. BM does not make the same claim about Advance.

-Alkyd performance characteristics with acrylic properties.
-An excellent choice for doors and trim, as well as cabinets and furniture.
-Excellent flow, leveling and sag resistance for a smooth, durable finish.
-Non-yellowing compared to conventional alkyds.


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## woodcoyote

I have used this paint, but not for cabinets. It levels fairly well, dries to a tough finish. It does have a stronger odor to it, so beware of that, as well as open time. It will remain tacky for awhile. 

The statement: "Non-yellowing compared to conventional alkyds.". 

Depends on how you read it. I pay attention to "compared" to conventional alkyds. In my opinion, all alkyds will yellow, its just a matter of time. Comparatively, it might be great...like the urethane type of technologies. It resists yellowing, but not guaranteed to "not yellow". 

So, be careful how you read it. 


*Edit:
*Let me reword their statement.
Compared to conventional alkyds, it is non-yellowing.


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## Mr Smith

"Non-yellowing" is a definitive phrase or statement. You can't say it is non-yellowing compared to traditional alkyds. Either it is non-yellowing or it is not. You can't have a "non-yellowing" paint that yellows just a bit compared to traditional alkyds.

To be precise, they should have said: "it doesn't yellow AS MUCH as traditional alkyds". I see a bit of dishonesty in that marketing ploy if true.


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## woodcoyote

Mr Smith said:


> "Non-yellowing" is a definitive phrase or statement. You can't say it is non-yellowing compared to traditional alkyds. Either it is non-yellowing or it is not. You can't have a "non-yellowing" paint that yellows just a bit compared to traditional alkyds.
> 
> To be precise, they should have said: "it doesn't yellow AS MUCH as traditional alkyds". I see a bit of dishonesty in that marketing ploy if true.


I haven't seen a non-yellowng alkyd. Have you? Or anyone for that matter. 10-20 years in...no yellowing? I'm highly doubtful. 

Even the industrial line-up of waterbased alkyds (same kind of method), say in their data pages "resists yellowing". But not yellow-proof. 

I agree it is...an english problem, the wording is a bit fuzzy.


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## PACman

marketing hype. Gotta love it.


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## Mr Smith

Coyote

So you prefer the Sherwin Williams pro-industrial WB alkyd over the Pro classic WB alkyd. Interesting. Why is that?


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## woodcoyote

Mr Smith said:


> Coyote
> 
> So you prefer the Sherwin Williams pro-industrial WB alkyd over the Pro classic WB alkyd. Interesting. Why is that?


I would favor it more. I feel that it actually levels better and is a more durable product. The leveling works really well, you can load up a brush, give it a swipe or two and leave it for touch-up. We can pretty much hit areas of damage with a brush on doors that were sprayed and have a hard time seeing where the touch-up is as far as brush strokes.

The other advantage is that it has a urethane resin within the coating so it works great outside. It's essentially an interior/exterior paint and because of the urethane it will retain the sheen and color for a fairly long period of time. 

Don't pay too much mind to the naysayers and bashers. They have their points and take all with a grain of salt. Give it a shot for yourself, just like I've given products and tools a try to get my own personal feedback and knowledge.


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## Tprice2193

@woodcoyote - Thanks for a detailed and informative response. I have used a fair amount of SW PI waterbourne alkyd Urethane enamel. Love the way it brushes and levels. I use it on trim and surfaces that wont get much wear for a week. I elected not to use it on cabinets because of the long cure time and fear of blocking. Has this been an issue with your use of this product? Also have you noticed that the SG is on the low end of sheen range...Thanks in advance for your response.


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## woodcoyote

Tprice2193 said:


> I elected not to use it on cabinets because of the long cure time and fear of blocking.
> 
> Has this been an issue with your use of this product?
> 
> Also have you noticed that the SG is on the low end of sheen range...Thanks in advance for your response.



It isn't the strongest coating out there. It acts more like a tougher latex paint. Just remember it's also an exterior paint, so by definition it has to be somewhat on the softer side in order to flex.

I'm still running a few experiments on cabinet finishes, but I think I've found one that our company is going to be using from here on out. Dries fast and hard and pretty hard to scratch it up. Which is my #1 priority, scratches and of course sticking during transport/install. 

It's all about speed for us, so the faster I can turn around and put doors back in, the better. Why? Because we get paid the remainder on install. We also can't charge a lot around here to begin with, so that's why speed is critical. For a painted finish, typical turn around time is 3-5 days.

With all that being said, if your looking for a touch finish with good blocking, skip the WB alkyd. It's a resilient finish, keeps its color/shine, levels beautifully, but...if it's in an abusive scenario it will scratch up just like a regular latex paint. 

Sheen seems to be a little on the low side. So a semi-gloss will look more like a shinier satin, etc. 

Hope that helps.


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## Mr Smith

woodcoyote said:


> It isn't the strongest coating out there. It acts more like a tougher latex paint. Just remember it's also an exterior paint, so by definition it has to be somewhat on the softer side in order to flex.
> 
> I'm still running a few experiments on cabinet finishes, but* I think I've found one that our company is going to be using from here on out*. Dries fast and hard and pretty hard to scratch it up. Which is my #1 priority, scratches and of course sticking during transport/install.
> 
> It's all about speed for us, so the faster I can turn around and put doors back in, the better. Why? Because we get paid the remainder on install. We also can't charge a lot around here to begin with, so that's why speed is critical. For a painted finish, typical turn around time is 3-5 days.
> 
> With all that being said, if your looking for a touch finish with good blocking, skip the WB alkyd. It's a resilient finish, keeps its color/shine, levels beautifully, but...if it's in an abusive scenario it will scratch up just like a regular latex paint.
> 
> Sheen seems to be a little on the low side. So a semi-gloss will look more like a shinier satin, etc.
> 
> Hope that helps.


Care to spill the beans? :vs_cool:


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## PPD

Mr Smith said:


> ProClassic Interior Waterbased Acrylic-Alkyd
> 
> Has anyone used this paint for cabinets?
> 
> How does it compare to BM Advance?
> 
> Sherwin Williams claims this WB alkyd does not yellow. BM does not make the same claim about Advance.
> 
> -Alkyd performance characteristics with acrylic properties.
> -An excellent choice for doors and trim, as well as cabinets and furniture.
> -Excellent flow, leveling and sag resistance for a smooth, durable finish.
> -Non-yellowing compared to conventional alkyds.




Spray or brush?

When I first tried them the blog world was ablaze w/ very strong opinions on both sides.... 

So I ran a test & painted our kitchen cabinets using both: Boxes in BM & Fronts in SW.

Brushed stiles before spraying the fronts to compare the leveling and payoff for spray & brush... I liked the BM slightly better workability wise although can’t remember why atm :-/

When first spraying I did dust layer, waited 2 hrs, & laid full coat- even tho it was a thin coat & there was flashing from wood filler I still had drips and puddling.

Took some finessing to figure out best setup for my gun/compressor but haven’t had any issues since getting it right (just glad I got the curve while working our own cabinets)!

Its been 3-4 yrs & theres not been yellowing from either brand (finished in BM Designer White). 

Our cabinets have held up incredibly well even tho we knew they were being gutted during remodel so they’ve been treated very roughly.

I use PC on cabinets all the time and haven’t had any calls or complaints and LOVE the leveling. 

The BM seems to be slightly more durable but may be that I didn’t rinse tsp as well or something...but it seems to be slightly harder & less prone to scratching or chips. This could also be the difference btwn abuse the fronts take vs boxes tho too so don’t place anything on it. The curing time is a lot longer than what ur used to so be sure to nail test before any further lay-down or you’ll have blocking. 

Achieving a pro-level finish has a learning curve...its so thin theres a tendency toward puddling & runs even w/ shallow lay & tipping.

Vertical surfaces are the worst so if any brush work is done don’t load like normal or you’ll have more runs than a 3 course meal at taco bell! ;p

*TIP: Be sure to double check SW pickup!! I stress the PC alkyd version when calling & almost every pickup requires remix cuz someone grabbed the PC acrylic instead. 

They really need 2 make the labels a slightly different color cuz its SO frustrating how often that error happens & the whole point of call in ordering is wasted. I’ve had employees try & tell me “the acrylic will work just as well”....um no, you need to give me the paint I asked for please and thank you.


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## PPD

woodcoyote said:


> It isn't the strongest coating out there. It acts more like a tougher latex paint. Just remember it's also an exterior paint, so by definition it has to be somewhat on the softer side in order to flex.
> 
> I'm still running a few experiments on cabinet finishes, but I think I've found one that our company is going to be using from here on out. Dries fast and hard and pretty hard to scratch it up. Which is my #1 priority, scratches and of course sticking during transport/install.
> 
> It's all about speed for us, so the faster I can turn around and put doors back in, the better. Why? Because we get paid the remainder on install. We also can't charge a lot around here to begin with, so that's why speed is critical. For a painted finish, typical turn around time is 3-5 days.
> 
> With all that being said, if your looking for a touch finish with good blocking, skip the WB alkyd. It's a resilient finish, keeps its color/shine, levels beautifully, but...if it's in an abusive scenario it will scratch up just like a regular latex paint.
> 
> Sheen seems to be a little on the low side. So a semi-gloss will look more like a shinier satin, etc.
> 
> Hope that helps.




I second the vote....care to spill the beans on ur new favorite???!! I love me some new ideas and we all care about speed  

You make a valid point there too- the SW & BM versions both require extreme cure time btwn coats compared to other paints so its a trade off for the advantages.


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## Tprice2193

@woodcoyote - thanks for the information - my experience with waterborne alkyds for cabinets is very similar to yours. I have gone with waterbourne lacquer to speed up turnaround. I use BIN as my primer. Generally on day 1 of a cabinet job I will remove doors transport to shop wash them down scuff sand, repair dings with putty, sand repair, and attach hooks for hanging. Day 2 shoot one heavy coat of BIN, wait a few hours and sand 220, spray one 3 mil coat of Enduro White Poly, wait about 4 to 5 hrs with good ventilation and low humidity, lightly sand with 400 correcting imperfections, spray second 3 mil coat vertical, Day #3 wet sand front of doors and drawers with 600. Spray final coat horizontal on turntable 4 mil...let it dry horizontal. Let it cure overnight. Day #4 Inspect and use Meguairs #2 compound to remove fingerprints and minor imperfections. Wrap and transport back to site and reinstall assuming your partner got the frames done. This of course isvthe best case scenario.


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## Mr Smith

Tprice2193 said:


> @woodcoyote - thanks for the information - my experience with waterborne alkyds for cabinets is very similar to yours. I have gone with waterbourne lacquer to speed up turnaround. I use BIN as my primer. Generally on day 1 of a cabinet job I will remove doors transport to shop wash them down scuff sand, repair dings with putty, sand repair, and attach hooks for hanging. Day 2 shoot one heavy coat of BIN, wait a few hours and sand 220, spray one 3 mil coat of Enduro White Poly, wait about 4 to 5 hrs with good ventilation and low humidity, lightly sand with 400 correcting imperfections, spray second 3 mil coat vertical, Day #3 wet sand front of doors and drawers with 600. Spray final coat horizontal on turntable 4 mil...let it dry horizontal. Let it cure overnight. Day #4 Inspect and use Meguairs #2 compound to remove fingerprints and minor imperfections. Wrap and transport back to site and reinstall assuming your partner got the frames done. This of course isvthe best case scenario.


Is that from General Finishes? This? https://www.etsy.com/ca/listing/566926246/general-finishes-enduro-pigmented-white

Can you spray it with an airless? I sold my Kremlin a few years ago because it just sat in my basement. Now all of a sudden I'm getting a bunch of quotes for cabinet painting. Does it have a plastic look or more like Cabinet Coat?

CC has a tendency to run if you aren't used to it.


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## Tprice2193

@Mr Smith: Yes thats it...Generalfinishes Enduro White Poly. I use semi gloss and Satin. You can spray with airless but be careful of the amount that you put on. It's a very thin product compared to Cabinet coat. I would not describe its finish as plastic but more creamy... Has a nice feel to it. I use it unthinned through an HVLP. On vertical surfaces you can't do more than 3 mil or it will run.


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## woodcoyote

I have to do some more experimenting before I'm satisfied. I don't want to endorse something without checking it out more thoroughly. Kind of like the way I treat my customers, I don't make it a habit of doing bad work and likewise giving a bad recommendation. 

I should know more here by Friday. My current issue is some bleed through, but I think that may be because the product I got was untinted (no colorant added). Comes out of the can white, but that doesn't mean much. I also have to test for yellowing over nitro, I did see in one of my samples some yellow shading, but that was a raw sample (no primer). 

I'll check back in with you guys later this week with my results and some photos. Probably start a new thread on it.


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## PPD

Tprice2193 said:


> @woodcoyote - thanks for the information - my experience with waterborne alkyds for cabinets is very similar to yours. I have gone with waterbourne lacquer to speed up turnaround. I use BIN as my primer. Generally on day 1 of a cabinet job I will remove doors transport to shop wash them down scuff sand, repair dings with putty, sand repair, and attach hooks for hanging. Day 2 shoot one heavy coat of BIN, wait a few hours and sand 220, spray one 3 mil coat of Enduro White Poly, wait about 4 to 5 hrs with good ventilation and low humidity, lightly sand with 400 correcting imperfections, spray second 3 mil coat vertical, Day #3 wet sand front of doors and drawers with 600. Spray final coat horizontal on turntable 4 mil...let it dry horizontal. Let it cure overnight. Day #4 Inspect and use Meguairs #2 compound to remove fingerprints and minor imperfections. Wrap and transport back to site and reinstall assuming your partner got the frames done. This of course isvthe best case scenario.


I've had my eye on the Enduro White for the past few years but haven't tried it yet...I'll have to pick up a gallon on my next run & experiment! Thanx for the recommendation!


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## PPD

woodcoyote said:


> I have to do some more experimenting before I'm satisfied. I don't want to endorse something without checking it out more thoroughly. Kind of like the way I treat my customers, I don't make it a habit of doing bad work and likewise giving a bad recommendation.
> 
> I should know more here by Friday. My current issue is some bleed through, but I think that may be because the product I got was untinted (no colorant added). Comes out of the can white, but that doesn't mean much. I also have to test for yellowing over nitro, I did see in one of my samples some yellow shading, but that was a raw sample (no primer).
> 
> I'll check back in with you guys later this week with my results and some photos. Probably start a new thread on it.


Awesome- can't wait to hear how it all goes!!! Tag me in the new post if you remember


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