# Selecting A Paint For Refinishing Kitchen Cabinets



## yerrato (Jun 4, 2016)

Starting a job refinishing some ikea birch cabinets over to a light grey...

I'm on the fence between using Insl-x Cabinet Coat or Aura satin with a couple coats of water poly on top.


Are there any better options out there... Don't want to use BM Advance the re-coat and cure time is too long.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated 


Thanks!

Peter


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Are you going to be spraying the cabinets or doing them by hand?


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## yerrato (Jun 4, 2016)

I'll be spraying the doors, and brushing/rolling the boxes and crown.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

yerrato said:


> I'll be spraying the doors, and brushing/rolling the boxes and crown.


I love Aura for walls but I wouldn't want it for cabinets. If you have access to the old formula PPG breakthrough I'd go with that. If not I'd go with Sherwin Williams ProIndustrial Multi Surface Acrylic which is SW's version of Breakthrough. It drys super fast, is rock hard, and sticks to just about anything you can throw at it. :yes:


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## yerrato (Jun 4, 2016)

Rbriggs82 said:


> yerrato said:
> 
> 
> > I'll be spraying the doors, and brushing/rolling the boxes and crown.
> ...


How smooth does the Proindustrial dry?


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Rbriggs82 said:


> I love Aura for walls but I wouldn't want it for cabinets. If you have access to the old formula PPG breakthrough I'd go with that. If not I'd go with Sherwin Williams ProIndustrial Multi Surface Acrylic which is SW's version of Breakthrough. It drys super fast, is rock hard, and sticks to just about anything you can throw at it. :yes:


Just did a fir front door in the SW Pro-Industrial Multi Surface Acrylic (not to be confused with their "All-Surface" product). Sanded much of the old dark stain finish off (in bad shape), primed with their exterior oil based primer, then sprayed it. Looked absolutely spectacular when it was done. Love that stuff for doors. Just wish it had at least one more sheen option.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

yerrato said:


> How smooth does the Proindustrial dry?


I spray the doors with a .310 tritech tip and it dries super smooth. It also has a nice feel to it, unlike latex Proclassic which I think looks great but feels dry to the touch.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

yerrato said:


> How smooth does the Proindustrial dry?


If you have decent spraying and brush skills you will be happy with the end result. You might be happy even if you don't.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Rbriggs82 said:


> I spray the doors with a .310 tritech tip and it dries super smooth. It also has a nice feel to it, unlike latex Proclassic which I think looks great but feels dry to the touch.


Yep - I also use a 310. Great results.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

RH said:


> Just did a fir front door in the SW Pro-Industrial Multi Surface Acrylic (not to be confused with their "All-Surface" product). Sanded much of the old dark stain finish off (in bad shape), primed with their exterior oil based primer, then sprayed it. Looked absolutely spectacular when it was done. Love that stuff for doors. Just wish it had at least one more sheen option.


I've only ever used it in eggshell if it came in semi instead of gloss I'd use a heck of a lot more of it. :yes:


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

I'd also use some XIM latex extender when doing the roller and brushing. Not really needed when spraying IMO.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Rbriggs82 said:


> I've only ever used it in eggshell if it came in semi instead of gloss I'd use a heck of a lot more of it. :yes:


Exactly. I like the eggshell but a few more notches up in sheen would be great as an option. Not used the gloss - yet.


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

RH said:


> Just did a fir front door in the SW Pro-Industrial Multi Surface Acrylic (not to be confused with their "All-Surface" product). Sanded much of the old dark stain finish off (in bad shape), primed with their exterior oil based primer, then sprayed it. Looked absolutely spectacular when it was done. Love that stuff for doors. *Just wish it had at least one more sheen option.*




I share this wish.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

SemiproJohn said:


> [/B]
> 
> I share this wish.


Seems like I remember my go to guy at SW telling me one was in the works - but maybe I'm wrong. Will check with him about it on Monday.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

yerrato said:


> Starting a job refinishing some ikea birch cabinets over to a light grey...
> 
> I'm on the fence between using Insl-x Cabinet Coat or Aura satin with a couple coats of water poly on top.
> 
> ...


Cabinet coat is a good product, I was back at a job that was seven years old and they still looked new.


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## Cabman (May 13, 2016)

Ppg breakthrough satin. Great finish. Sets fast. Hard as nails. Easy to work with. Go for gloss if you like that plastic look. Sheen is a little dull, but feels great and looks like a medium rub laq.

https://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/57541e94be1a4/20160603_140157.mp4


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## Tonyg (Dec 9, 2007)

I primarily use BM and have used the Aura on cab's. It is a nice finish but going to be softer than a hybrid and I'm not happy with the Advance for the same reason either. Older couple and surprisingly it held up nicely over the years. That said, My next is one is going to be PPG Breakthrough. I tried the Proclassic a couple of times when it first came out on some commercial kitchen doors and was not impressed backed then.


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## TheCJ702 (Apr 18, 2016)

I'm using Pro Industrial Urethane Alkyd (their oil, not the new water based). Light sanded boxes and fronts. one coat with a 395 312/212 tip and that'll do it! Super nice finish and covered great. No issues with coverage, sheen or runners on boxes.
However, dry time sucks. Just flipped a few fronts to spray back and the few I did and racked now have dents on the first coat side from the rack. 

Thought 4 days would have been enough dry time but nope. Does anyone have an idea on speeding that dry time up but still allowing the oil to level out? 

Process on these ones:
Clean surface, lightly sanded off sheen, Pro Ind oil (Black Bean SW color), thinned with mineral spirits by 15%, Graco 212 & 312 tips through 395 PC pump. Sprayed and racked horizontally.
4-day dry time on fronts before flipped and sprayed on other side.

(added Japan Dryer to back side to test dry times. Roughly two cap fulls of Japan to the gallon, thinned with mineral 15%) May have tinted color a tad but took the risk for faster dry time. Love this product but if I can't speed up drying, it'll be a long time before I find a use for it again on a job.

Will be wet sanding both sides of 8 of them for another coat to get out the new rack-grooves I have on one side and still have the rest of the set to coat on back side and need to speed up dry time for this round...

any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

I used to use the Pro Ind Multi surface and I agree, that stuff works great but hard to find a primer that I can tint under Black Bean color that won't show through when wet sanding for second coat/ironing out defects before top coating or calling set complete. MSurface with XIM for white cabs works great, especially with a nice lacquer top coat.... like glass. I dedicated a pump to oil so wanted to start upping my refinishing game with oil. 

Might be again looking at Breakthrough though if I can find a steady source of the good stuff. I do a set or two a week so I need 3-4 gallons of it for each set (w/ boxes)


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

RH said:


> Just did a fir front door in the SW Pro-Industrial Multi Surface Acrylic (not to be confused with their "All-Surface" product). Sanded much of the old dark stain finish off (in bad shape), primed with their exterior oil based primer, then sprayed it. Looked absolutely spectacular when it was done. Love that stuff for doors. Just wish it had at least one more sheen option.


Do you think it could be sprayed with a HVLP without thinning?


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Yesterday we were painting kitchen cabinets with PPG breakthrough. We have used this product several times and have had excellent results. Unfortunately we had total product failure with runs and sags on the boxes and the cabinet doors being sprayed horizontally. We have never encountered this with breakthrough period due to the fact that we had total failure after the first coat the second coat and the third coat we used the suggestion of our local been more rep and tried cabinet coat. After prepping three doors and spraying out the three doors with cabinet coat upon inspection the doors looked Flawless as if they had been spray-painted with waterborne colored lacquer. Not a single digit or orange peel in the entire spray pattern. I think we will use this product for the next two cabinet jobs given that it seems to write out fairly well for durability and hardness period we are quite gun-shy about using breakthrough again given that we lost two whole days of Labor with breakthrough failure. As well on this project we had to use advance satin in a dark Benjamin Moore color called Iron Mountain for the kitchen island. PPG did not have the correct bases to mix a dark color. We went with Advance satin and of course waited a full day in between coats for painting. Making a side-by-side comparison between advance and breakthrough on the doors we noticed that the advance was Flawless compared to breakthrough. Both colors and both products were sprayed in the same spray booth and yet failure with one product and total success with another. Hopefully cabinet coat will durable enough that we can continue to use it based on the incredible results that were achieved when we spray painted it with Tritech 210 fine finish tip. The local Inn Select rap is going to let us try the aqua lock primer that is recommended to be used in conjunction with cabinet coat. Will post pictures when we get a chance


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

My apologies for the typo errors in this thread. I never type with my fingers I always voice text and sometimes the phone will not recognize the words that I am using. Sometimes voice text makes it seem as if you are incompetent with all of the typos


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> Do you think it could be sprayed with a HVLP without thinning?


Possibly. It's a fairly thin product designed for spraying. Just never tried it out of my HVLP yet - only my airless. Perhaps you just won't need to thin it to the point of the product losing it's integrity which is what occurs with most WB enamels in an HVLP.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Cabinet coat in satin finish and the color is Benjamin Moore White Dove.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Zoomer said:


> Cabinet coat in satin finish and the color is Benjamin Moore White Dove.


Nice looking work. But you do know, they now make these new fangled things called, "saw horses". Pretty nice to use for supporting your work when you run out of plastic buckets. :whistling2:


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## tnw322 (Jun 6, 2016)

TheCJ702 said:


> I'm using Pro Industrial Urethane Alkyd (their oil, not the new water based). Light sanded boxes and fronts. one coat with a 395 312/212 tip and that'll do it! Super nice finish and covered great. No issues with coverage, sheen or runners on boxes.
> However, dry time sucks. Just flipped a few fronts to spray back and the few I did and racked now have dents on the first coat side from the rack.
> 
> Thought 4 days would have been enough dry time but nope. Does anyone have an idea on speeding that dry time up but still allowing the oil to level out?
> ...




I see two issues: color and amount of reduction. The amount of colorant in that formula will def retard drying and then using a slow evaporating solvent like mineral spirits compounds the problem. See if our store has 844 colorants available, they solvent based and perform better than the universal colorant they probably used. Next ask them if they have a recommended faster drying solvent to reduce (I know their SherKem product line recommended acetone for quicker dry times but you need to use 844 colorants or the solvent will attack most universal colorants ). This should help speed things up, hope it helps.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

straight_lines said:


> Cabinet coat is a good product, I was back at a job that was seven years old and they still looked new.


That is very good news given that this cabinet job was the first time we have used cabinet coat. It did spray out exceptionally easy and we actually brought it to failure by spraying it too heavy. There are a couple of bags in our final coat which means we will have to clean those up tomorrow but I always like to push it to the limit to determine exactly how far you can take a product before it starts to run or save on you. In my opinion this will now replace breakthrough for our primary kitchen cabinet paint


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

RH said:


> Nice looking work. But you do know, they now make these new fangled things called, "saw horses". Pretty nice to use for supporting your work when you run out of plastic buckets. :whistling2:


Yes! You got me on that one. We did not have a chance to retrieve the saw horses from the previous job where we forgot to load them into the truck.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Zoomer said:


> Yes! You got me on that one. We did not have a chance to retrieve the saw horses from the previous job where we forgot to load them into the truck.


Lol... sorry, couldn't resist. There are times I use up all my available saw horse sets and utilize the five gallon bucket method myself. :thumbsup:


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

Isn't Cabinet Coat only available in Pastel tint base? Other than that, I really like it.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

RH said:


> Possibly. It's a fairly thin product designed for spraying. Just never tried it out of my HVLP yet - only my airless. Perhaps you just won't need to thin it to the point of the product losing it's integrity which is what occurs with most WB enamels in an HVLP.


Yeah. That is exactly the reason I was asking.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Zoomer said:


> That is very good news given that this cabinet job was the first time we have used cabinet coat. It did spray out exceptionally easy and we actually brought it to failure by spraying it too heavy. There are a couple of bags in our final coat which means we will have to clean those up tomorrow but I always like to push it to the limit to determine exactly how far you can take a product before it starts to run or save on you. In my opinion this will now replace breakthrough for our primary kitchen cabinet paint


Takes a lot longer to reach the hardness of breakthrough. If I remember correctly the finish is pretty soft for several days. Maring was an issue with sitting them in the racks. For sure can't do both sides in a day without hanging.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Try these for spraying both sides in one day. I don't have a picture of the ones we use for a cabinet doors. They look just like these but are smaller in size and allow us to spray both sides evenly in one day without any chance of the doors rubbing up against each other. The name of these are door Decker's and cabinet Decker's.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Straight lines, thank you for your feedback on cabinet coat


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Cabinet Coat by Inslx. We have only used it for 2 kitchen cabinet jobs but we are finding that this is an excellent product a true gym. What we did not use it much sooner I do not know. It sprays out beautifully if you allow it to dry overnight it gives you a very nice finish hard finish.
I would certainly recommend this product with what we have initially discovered on the first two jobs. Only time will tell if this product can remain resilient to wear and tear and hold up just as well as other products we have used in the past. Here are some photos of cabinets repainted with both cabinet coat for the white cabinets and Advance satin for the dark kitchen island. Cabinet coat is a excellent user-friendly paint


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## ligboozer (Oct 13, 2009)

I'm not on here much, but is there no love for Advance? 

After getting past the learning curve with it (spraying, working with the dry and recoat times) it's my go to paint for cabinets. Very happy with how it looks and once fully cured the surface hardness is second to none IMHO.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

Problematic recoat times, especially in dark colors, poor block resistance= special times, special places paint for me. It brushes, sprays great and looks great. It's just the time in between that can be an issue. 

If I can tell an HO- "BTW, don't even look at this cabinet door/box funny in the next 5-15 days" then I would gladly use it. If not? Breakthrough, MSE, Muralo Ultra, Ultraplate, Cabinet Coat are better choices most of the time.


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## goga (Aug 6, 2015)

Any paint will look nice if the applicator and the application tool is nice. I've painted hundreds of doors with cheap wall satin latex spraying or rolling, no difference with more expansive paint. Just take some time and adjust.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

Sure it may look nice. But for how long?


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## goga (Aug 6, 2015)

kdpaint said:


> Sure it may look nice. But for how long?


Depends on use and abuse. It was when I did some NC, there no guaranty over one year anyways and requested paint quality is no up to painting party to decide.


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## AlphaWolf (Nov 23, 2014)

I use Sherwin Williams Extreme Bond Primer. Than i top coat with Multi Surface Acrylic. Reason for the MSA is because when you read the PDF info on the product it states that all bases have 100 percent strength/durability rating. I have used it in an intense red color and in under an hour you can pick the doors up and they wont scratch. IMO best thing to use. Also the Extreme Bond Primer sticks to everything. As a bonus all waterborne and not very smelly.


Edit: Spray with airless very nice. Levels out almost like an oil. If you spray a door in around 20 min you can touch them. 1 hour max u can spray the other side. Some times as little as 30 min. Price for the MSA is not super expensive as well.


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

That extreme bond is no joke. Doesnt brush worth a damn but i am pretty sure thats what the mosquito in jurassic park got stuck in. Gonna try some msa next the krilguard i used was a joke.


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## AlphaWolf (Nov 23, 2014)

ya i always spray the primer and the finish. I never brush or roll. the MSA comes in eggshell and gloss. IMO the eggshell is more of satin. Shiny eggshell. Looks perfect on cabinets. Gives a really nice luster.


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

I brushed out some windows with extreme bond it dried what seemed like on contact.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

AlphaWolf said:


> I use Sherwin Williams Extreme Bond Primer. Than i top coat with Multi Surface Acrylic. Reason for the MSA is because when you read the PDF info on the product it states that all bases have 100 percent strength/durability rating. I have used it in an intense red color and in under an hour you can pick the doors up and they wont scratch. IMO best thing to use. Also the Extreme Bond Primer sticks to everything. As a bonus all waterborne and not very smelly.
> 
> 
> Edit: Spray with airless very nice. Levels out almost like an oil. If you spray a door in around 20 min you can touch them. 1 hour max u can spray the other side. Some times as little as 30 min. Price for the MSA is not super expensive as well.


Thanks for the feedback. I have used a fair amount of the MSA but not with the Extreme Bond. Sounds like a good combination. Any take on the stain sealing capabilities of the Extreme Bonding Primer?


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## AlphaWolf (Nov 23, 2014)

to be honest hit and miss. Overall i would not plan on it stopping bad tannin bleeds. My normal plan of attack is clean cabinets with a biodegradable degrease thats safe on your skin. Sand them with sanding pads. Spray Extreme bone primer. Any bad tannin i hit with spray can of shellac or Kilz original oil as both dry fast and work well. Normally i use kilz oil can as it dries fast nicer to sand imo. Once i spray kills not even an hour later i sand and paint with MSA.

Edit: Extreme bond primer PDF says its intended to use with the Pro Industrial line. So it and MSA make a perfect pair. Never have to worry about bond issues again.


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## PaintedbyStephen (Jan 4, 2022)

BPC said:


> That extreme bond is no joke. Doesnt brush worth a damn but i am pretty sure thats what the mosquito in jurassic park got stuck in. Gonna try some msa next the krilguard i used was a joke.


Has anyone compared Extreme Bond Primer to Stix? Looks like they're formulated to do the same thing, and decent primer is ALWAYS out of stock at S-W.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

PaintedbyStephen said:


> Has anyone compared Extreme Bond Primer to Stix? Looks like they're formulated to do the same thing, and decent primer is ALWAYS out of stock at S-W.


Stix sticks better than any off the shelf waterborne primer ive ever used.


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## PaintedbyStephen (Jan 4, 2022)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Stix sticks better than any off the shelf waterborne primer ive ever used.


Does it block stains in wood? Have you used it for oak cabinet priming or painting over stained woodwork?


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## comtnpaint (5 mo ago)

PaintedbyStephen said:


> Does it block stains in wood? Have you used it for oak cabinet priming or painting over stained woodwork?


Stix is only a bonding primer. It has no stain blocking ability at all.


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