# Lowering The Sheen Of Paint



## matt19422 (Oct 2, 2009)

Ok, 

I would like to knock the sheen down on 2 gallons of BM Regal Select Matte Finish.

Anyone add water to a gallon and if so what amount?


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

Search the term, "Flattening Paste". There's info here and elsewhere to help. I wouldn't advise using water to lessen a sheen. Research the various flattening agents available. In the past, everything from baby powder, talc & cornstarch have been used. Pretty sure most flattening pastes available today are made up primarily of silica. 

Also, make sure you find a reliable way of incorporating the flattening agent into the paint. Hand mixing is insufficient. Measure & record everything in case you need more. Be sure to strain your paint before using.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> Search the term, "Flattening Paste". There's info here and elsewhere to help. I wouldn't advise using water to lessen a sheen. Research the various flattening agents available. In the past, everything from baby powder, talc & cornstarch have been used. Pretty sure most flattening pastes available today are made up primarily of silica.
> 
> Also, make sure you find a reliable way of incorporating the flattening agent into the paint. Hand mixing is insufficient. Measure & record everything in case you need more. Be sure to strain your paint before using.


I know this has come up before. Maybe the SEARCH function would help. The material also gets called "flatting paste", especially by some of them grey beards on PT.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

2 gallons? I'd start with flat.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Bender said:


> 2 gallons? I'd start with flat.


Sure, you could try that.

The sheens for the two products overlap. Flat is 1-3.5 and matte is 2-5.5 (@85 degrees).


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

Universal flattening agent is another name.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

I would mix one gallon of matte with one gallon of flat. 
I have made it work.


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## Repaintpro (Oct 2, 2012)

We used to mix flat with matte or low sheen to give different levels of sheen.

In the end we had no end of trouble with paint not drying down properly like a mottled or uneven sheen, unable to touch up walls, not sure how to duplicate if recipe is not written down........I suppose it served a purpose back when we did it but we saved no time or money by doing it. 

Now I use the paint straight our of the tin. The way the paint company supplies the product is the way I put it on the wall.


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

Repaintpro said:


> Now I use the paint straight our of the tin. The way the paint company supplies the product is the way I put it on the wall.


Bingo. That's why I never water my paint down or add additives, unless I'm going to be taking 100% responsibility for the work. I.e. stain job, which is subjective, which everyone knows anyway. 

With mixing the paints together, I could just see all kinds of problems like you mentioned with touch-ups, voided warranties from supplier, etc. 

Your better off ordering the sheen you need to begin with preferably. A flattening agent could work, or even just a light scuff sand will knock down the sheen too. 

Good luck and let us know how it turned out.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Having worked in a batch plant, I can tell you the process is quite simple, but maintaining consistency can be trouble without a QC lab. If you get a flattener in powdered form, it has to be made into a "slurry" before it will properly mix with the paint. Always make all you need in one batch/container, because with out lab control you will have a hard time matching the sheen again. You won't be able to add enough flattener to make a matte into a dead flat no matter what you do, without severely weakening the resultant paint film. Always make sure the container you mix in is 20-30% larger then the amount of paint you start with, because when you add your flattener, the volume will increase, and you need plenty of room to get the paint mixed. Also if I remember correctly you will need a "high shear" mixing blade to get the flatteners to disperse.
In all honesty, I have seen painters try this in the field, and I think you would be better off taking the hit and buying the flat sheen you need and going with that.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

We had a situation like this some time ago and I wanted to mix two sheens of a product line together. It was a large commercial job, so, out of an abundance of caution, I called the mfg's tech line. Glad I did. Turns out that, even within one product line, the two coatings had fundamentally different chemistries....


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Good post Gough, I was going to mention the same thing.

Colors formulations often vary between sheens in the same product. There can be considerable differences in composition aside of that, as well. I would never, ever recommend mixing sheens.

I also don't recommend any additives. I know BM says no additives other than their own thinner or water in some cases. This is probably just to cover their arses in case of performance failure, but at the same time... there's a reason. Anything you add to the paint can is changing the appropriate ratio of solids/resin/everything, and in almost every possible case that leads to worse performance. It might not be bad enough to ever be noticeable, but even adding too much tint weakens things. It's the reason I only recommend the BM extender for BM products- it's formulated with the same in-house materials as the paint to prevent weakening the product overly much.

I'm curious why you're not just using flat (is it too flat? still not flat enough?).


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Gough said:


> We had a situation like this some time ago and I wanted to mix two sheens of a product line together. It was a large commercial job, so, out of an abundance of caution, I called the mfg's tech line. Glad I did. Turns out that, even within one product line, the two coatings had fundamentally different chemistries....


Hmm most of us learned that our first year in the trade but here is a picture to help you remember next time...
:whistling2:


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Bender said:


> Hmm most of us learned that our first year in the trade but here is a picture to help you remember next time...
> :whistling2:


Thanks, Bender.

These were both acrylic latexes. IIRC, both PPG 6-line.


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