# Worth it to get RRP Certified?



## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

I met a woman today that owns a property management company and she is looking for a painting contractor to work with. One of the first things she asked was if I had RRP certification, and I told her I had not gotten it yet (although I've only been officially eligible to get it for 2 weeks) because my impression from talking to other contractors is that no one wants to spend the money to have it done the right way. So I just figured I would avoid the old houses or wait until the right job came along that the owners were willing to spend the money for. 

Anyways, I'm supposed to be meeting with her in the next couple of weeks at a vacant home to see if my prices are in a "reasonable" range. But I wanted to find out a few things before I meet with her. Especially if you are from California.

1. I need RRP to do any work pre 1978 correct? Not just if I disturb the surface?

2. For exterior work, is pressure washing considered disturbing the surface? Or only if it removes paint chips? I'm pretty sure it is, but I've read conflicting information.

3. If I do less than 6 square feet of sanding and scraping on interiors, I don't need to adhere to RRP, right? 

4. Does cleaning with ammonia or tsp fall under "disturbing the surface"?


I don't mind spending the money right now, even though I have a ton of other start up expenses going on at the moment, if it's going to lead to immediate work. But, I want to be educated as well as possible going into it so any insight is appreciated.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

If you feel like your business will suffer from cutting out pre 78 work, then yea it's worth it. For me, and a lot of people, not doing that type of work is really not option. I've found it's not really that big of a deal. You have to charge more for those jobs of course, and figuring out how much more can be a challenge. 

Whether its worth it or not totally depends on your market. Overall, if your going to do pre 78 work, I think its worth it to obey the law and be safe.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

One mistake some contractors are making is if they are the owner and only worker you must get your lead license not just certified, this is the biggest leading to fines that I have heard, more contractors getting caught.
We have no choice but to work on lead houses for the most part I sucked it up about 3 yrs ago and only did a hand full of small lead jobs up until this year, more than I can handle so I am glad I spent the money when we first started this company. 
Hines what does this mean "officially eligible"? Around here all you need is an HIC license $199.99 and a company name then your good to go to get certified $275.00/licensed $375.00.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

cdpainting said:


> One mistake some contractors are making is if they are the owner and only worker you must get your lead license not just certified, this is the biggest leading to fines that I have heard, more contractors getting caught.00.










Licensing is state specific. I live in TN, which has no extra licensing requirements to do RRP. But I was certified in NC, which does require a separate state license. 
I'm interested to know the CA specifics too.


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

Jmayspaint said:


> If you feel like your business will suffer from cutting out pre 78 work, then yea it's worth it. For me, and a lot of people, not doing that type of work is really not option. I've found it's not really that big of a deal. You have to charge more for those jobs of course, and figuring out how much more can be a challenge.
> 
> Whether its worth it or not totally depends on your market. Overall, if your going to do pre 78 work, I think its worth it to obey the law and be safe.



I don't know that my business will suffer, but the property manager did tell me she hasn't been able to find a Painting Contractor in this area that is RRP certified so it might be a nice in for me. They are a company that is about 2 years old, but they are managing 100 properties. I don't know what the average turnover for rentals in my county is, but even 10% is ten extra jobs per year. And if they are set on finding someone RRP certified it sounds like I won't have any competition.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

Hines Painting said:


> I met a woman today that owns a property management company and she is looking for a painting contractor to work with. One of the first things she asked was if I had RRP certification, and I told her I had not gotten it yet (although I've only been officially eligible to get it for 2 weeks) because my impression from talking to other contractors is that no one wants to spend the money to have it done the right way. So I just figured I would avoid the old houses or wait until the right job came along that the owners were willing to spend the money for.
> 
> Anyways, I'm supposed to be meeting with her in the next couple of weeks at a vacant home to see if my prices are in a "reasonable" range. But I wanted to find out a few things before I meet with her. Especially if you are from California.
> 
> ...


When you say "officially eligible" is that because you took the class? Then all you need to do is register your firm with the EPA. California follows the federal rules. You are really better off getting it because then you can do the lead test. And don't forget about handing out the RRP Brochure.


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

cdpainting said:


> One mistake some contractors are making is if they are the owner and only worker you must get your lead license not just certified, this is the biggest leading to fines that I have heard, more contractors getting caught.
> We have no choice but to work on lead houses for the most part I sucked it up about 3 yrs ago and only did a hand full of small lead jobs up until this year, more than I can handle so I am glad I spent the money when we first started this company.


I haven't heard anything about california making owners get a Lead License, so I will have to look into that and see if it's true. 



cdpainting said:


> Hines what does this mean "officially eligible"? Around here all you need is an HIC license $199.99 and a company name then your good to go to get certified $275.00/licensed $375.00.


I'll try to keep this brief so people actually read it lol 

California is a pain to get a license in. I applied in 2008, when I was 24 and it set off a flag in their system for "young journeyman" because they want someone to have 4 full time years (8000 hrs) as a journeyman painter (they claim all journeymans should make $15 an hour or higher) and they assume you have to be an apprentice first, and that it can't start until you're 18. Which caused me to get investigated by the state, and I couldn't verify 8000 hrs at $15 per hour or higher wages, so they denied me. And the 8000 hrs has to be in the last ten years. But, since I was already flagged in the system I was permanently flagged. I decided after I got denied, to just start working without a license (I'll elaborate why, if someone cares) and waited 4 years to reapply. 

I applied in December 2012, and it took until June 17th of this year to get the license issued, plus about $600 in fees not counting the license prep class and the bond fee. I sent the investigator about 70 pages worth of stuff and I had to have 3 contractors sign forms stating that I had the necessary experience and 4 other people with direct experience of my skills. And he followed up with every single one to verify it. 

TL,DR: California's stupid and I didn't get my license until 2 weeks ago.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

RRP means squat. Lead and asbestos regulations in California is much stricter than the measly federal rrp certification.

Get it, it can be used for sells or if your certified in California with asbestos , you still have to get it to be compliant federally. Federal regs are so much more lacks than California certifications, rrp is a joke in comparison

....


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

RCP said:


> When you say "officially eligible" is that because you took the class? Then all you need to do is register your firm with the EPA. California follows the federal rules. You are really better off getting it because then you can do the lead test. And don't forget about handing out the RRP Brochure.


California doesn't allow people with RRP certification to do a lead test. Have to hire....Lead Abatement Specialist...or something like that. I can't remember the name at the moment. I said "officially eligible" because I just got my license.


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

ewingpainting.net said:


> RRP means squat. Lead and asbestos regulations in California is much stricter than the measly federal rrp certification.
> 
> Get it, it can be used for sells or if your certified in California with asbestos , you still have to get it to be compliant federally. Federal regs are so much more lacks than California certifications, rrp is a joke in comparison
> 
> ....


Did you get certified for asbestos? And has your business seen a positive ROI for it?


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Hines,

It is worth it to take the course so you can understand the law better and decide from knowledge, not hearsay.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

ewingpainting.net said:


> RRP means squat. Lead and asbestos regulations in California is much stricter than the measly federal rrp certification.
> 
> Get it, it can be used for sells or if your certified in California with asbestos , you still have to get it to be compliant federally. Federal regs are so much more lacks than California certifications, rrp is a joke in comparison
> 
> ....


Interesting Gabe, I know Cali is more stringent on disposal of lead waste and asbestos, but assumed that according to this map, that RRP followed the Federal statutes.
Utah controls RRP, we have to meet federal guidelines, and have a few small other hoops to jump through. How is Cali different from Federal?


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

daArch said:


> Hines,
> 
> It is worth it to take the course so you can understand the law better and decide from knowledge, not hearsay.


Eventually I will take the course and get certified. But if most people don't see a measurable ROI for the company from it, in a relatively short time frame, then it will definitely get moved down the to-do list and be done later.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

RCP said:


> Interesting Gabe, I know Cali is more stringent on disposal of lead waste and asbestos, but assumed that according to this map, that RRP followed the Federal statutes.
> Utah controls RRP, we have to meet federal guidelines, and have a few small other hoops to jump through. How is Cali different from Federal?


Copied and pasted here cause I didn't want to typ it out. 

California: ... in every pre-78 structure • assume untested paint is lead-based, or • have paint tested by a State-certified Lead Inspector/Risk Assessor ... in every pre 78 structure if any untested paint will be disturbed • use containment • use lead safe work practices • clean up all dust or debris at end of job • be able to demonstrate compliance ... for all construction employees who might be exposed to any amount of lead • employer tests air to determine level of worker protection • (until air tests are taken, workers must be in suits and respirators) • hand washing facilities provided • use HEPA vacuum ... for all employees doing a Trigger Task (i.e. sanding, scraping, demolition etc) • blood test when hired • “regulated area” at every job • trained about Lead in Construction Standard • Cal/OSHA must be notified if job over 100 square or linear feet

Federal: ... in Target Housing and Child-Occupied Facilities (if compensation & disturbing more than 6 square feet) • give client “Renovate Right” before beginning job (get a signed receipt) • work for an EPA-certified RRP firm • become individually certified renovator • use containment, lead safe work practices • train all non-certified workers (HSI) • do cleaning verification at end of job or have clearance test HomeSafe Environmental, Inc, 24662 Redlands Blvd., Loma Linda, CA

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...kYH4Dg&usg=AFQjCNGlHQws_J_yA5FHS6GpFEbCkuQ7iQ



....


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

RCP said:


> Interesting Gabe, I know Cali is more stringent on disposal of lead waste and asbestos, but assumed that according to this map, that RRP followed the Federal statutes.
> Utah controls RRP, we have to meet federal guidelines, and have a few small other hoops to jump through. How is Cali different from Federal?


Sorry, I had bbq ribs, beer and sat on my new recliner wich effected my response.

Seriously if you read what I pasted you can see the difference with rrp and being legally certified in California. The testing alone is a huge difference. We are not allowed to test for lead unless we are certified to test, even with the rrp cert. The test kits you are allowed to use are not recognized by cal osha. You have to use one of those fancy $5,000 testing machines. If a contractor is not a certified lead tester, we are suppose to treat any pre 78 as if it contains lead, even if it doesn't. 

It is more about the definition of a lead tester, who is allowed, and how you are allowed to test. Rrp cert is powerless to a contractor in California without being a California-certified Lead Inspector/Risk Assessors.

Safe practices and the measures of precautions differ from rrp a calif regs, I believe cal osha requires air testing, and notification of cal osha before any lead project is started. A contractor is also required to test all employees before they are hired. 

How I benefited from being rrp certified is awareness and using it as a selling tool. Awareness probably the best thing you could gain. RRP doesn't free you from California safe practice laws by cal osha.

However,  
As a sub I can work under a contractor that is a California-certified. So all I would need is the rrp cert. As long as I'm treating any area as contaminated with the safe practice laws and all the test have been cleared. Most the time the lead is gone when we show up.

....


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Hines Painting said:


> Did you get certified for asbestos? And has your business seen a positive ROI for it?


I ment to say lead, and I am not certified for either. I can see it profitable if you or want to do that work. It would cut 3/4 your competition

....


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

Thanks Gabe, I had forgotten that Cali was "RRP before RRP was cool"
Kinda glad we moved out 20+ years ago!


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## Dean CRCNA (Feb 4, 2010)

Hines Painting said:


> I met a woman today that owns a property management company and she is looking for a painting contractor to work with. One of the first things she asked was if I had RRP certification, and I told her I had not gotten it yet (although I've only been officially eligible to get it for 2 weeks) because my impression from talking to other contractors is that no one wants to spend the money to have it done the right way. So I just figured I would avoid the old houses or wait until the right job came along that the owners were willing to spend the money for.
> 
> Anyways, I'm supposed to be meeting with her in the next couple of weeks at a vacant home to see if my prices are in a "reasonable" range. But I wanted to find out a few things before I meet with her. Especially if you are from California.
> 
> ...


1. RRP only applies if you disturb (create dust and/or debris). There are exceptions and exceptions to the exceptions. If you don't know the exceptions or the exceptions to the exceptions ... you should learn them.

2. Pressure washing is disturbing under the RRP. You can pressure wash, but you need to follow RRP's regulations. Long story short, you will need to capture all water and dispose of correctly, if you pressure wash.

3. Right. Unless it is an emergency, you do demolition, window replacement or do any of the prohibited practices. If you do, then RRP must be followed.

4. Depends on how it's done. If it creates dust (even wet dust) or debris ... RRP applies.

*California*

In California, you must follow both ... the RRP and State Regs. Since California has not taken over the RRP ... you have to be a Lead Safe Certified Firm and use a Certified Renovator. Additionally, you also have to follow state regs.


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