# OSHA and you



## Mandrake

I'm new to the forum and I am interested in finding out how many painting contractors have written safety programs and how many implement the training and recordkeeping requirements. 

I do have alterior motives - I am involved in training and compliance work (this is not an advertisement). I have been in the painting industry for 30 years now and find that this is an area that most small and mid-sized companies know little about. 

mandrake


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## Safety Guy

The company I work for does. We have annual respirator and OSHA 4 hour training. Most foreman have an OSHA 30 hour card. We have a computer system where all training is logged, 2-3 times a year I get the payroll list and compare it to the training list to see who needs updated when. If we are doing a "specialty" job I come up with a site specific program and train the guys who will be working on that site.(over water, bloodborne pathogens, high work, swing stage, etc.)


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## Mandrake

How many employees would you be talking about? Where do get your OSHA 30-hour?

Mndrk


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## Safety Guy

We vary company wide from 100-300 employees. Painters vary from 25-60. Some of our training is done in house but most is done through the union or with the AGC (Associated General Contractors). 

You could probably look in your local trade publications and start there for who offers the 30 hour in your area. Another option for us to get training is through workmans comp, they offer different classes throughout the state.

What part of the country are you in??? If you are in charge of safety you may want to start with the 30 hour and then take the OSHA 500 course which certifies you to train other. The 500 is a week long deal and is not cheap but you can train all of your guys in house then.


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## Mandrake

Thanks for the info. I actually have done the 500 course and conduct 10 & 30 hour courses. I am now working with small to mid-sized companies helping them with their programs and training. I posted the question to see what others are doing, or not doing. Sounds like you have things well under control - which is fantastic. What kind of initial orientation and training do you do with new hires? I find one of the most difficult things is keeping up with initial training when new people are constantly coming on board. 

I'm located in the Northeast. 

Mndrk


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## welovepainting

Hello guy’s im a residential painting contractor of 10 years. We are starting to get more and more commercial jobs therefore we need to implement a safety and training manual and classes. What's the least expensive route and where do I begin?


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## nextlevelpaintco.

Except for the green horns(who get a safety and how to prep and clean stuff drill all day)I just get my guys to sign the paper saying the sub company had the big and important meeting. It's my insurance and my ass I know but my guys are pros and I trust them to stay safe no need for a pointless meeting.However osha has been prowling and not wearing steel toes has been an issue plus I got busted for having a broke ground prong in a drop cord.can you belive that?


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## Brushslingers

Yup I can, got kicked off a school once for using a metal ladder for one day.


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## Safety Guy

Mandrake said:


> What kind of initial orientation and training do you do with new hires? I find one of the most difficult things is keeping up with initial training when new people are constantly coming on board.
> 
> I'm located in the Northeast.
> 
> Mndrk


That is the one weakness with our program, new hires get a quick run through of the safety manual and that is about it. If the last longer than a month or so when we get 10 or more we set up a class. One thing our AGC has done is set up a database with all of the local guys that tracks what training they have recieved. You can look online and check a guy out. It helps but it is not perfect.


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## Safety Guy

welovepainting said:


> Hello guy’s im a residential painting contractor of 10 years. We are starting to get more and more commercial jobs therefore we need to implement a safety and training manual and classes. What's the least expensive route and where do I begin?


I have not looked in years but there are a bunch of online resources you can use to come up with a safety program. For classes the BWC offers them all over the state, call and get their resources catalog. They also have a decent video liabrary you can use to do inhouse training. A more expensive option would be to hire an outside consultant like Mandrake to help with the manual and do your training.


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## Mandrake

Yea there are some good resources out there between the web and different organizations. The difficulty many owners have is figuring out what they really need or don't need. I try to fill the gap between high-priced consultants and the impersonal web-based approach. I've used videos for in-house training and really like some of them. 

I do have to take exception with one of the previous posts though...

*' It's my insurance and my ass I know but my guys are pros and I trust them to stay safe no need for a pointless meeting.'*

...famous last words. I hope he *never ever* has an accident on the job. I was involved in a project where one of our painters was killed when a fixed stair platform at a food processing facility gave way for no apparant reason. He fell 12 feet. When I got there the Medivac was leaving because it was to late. 38 years old with 2 kids. Training would not have changed a thing but the point of good safety training is to create an awareness of the potential dangers we face in the painting business. It may be boring for some but if it helps a small percentage of "pros" take a second look before acting it is worth every boring second. And anyway good safety training doesn't have to be boring!


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## Safety Guy

Mandrake said:


> I do have to take exception with one of the previous posts though...
> 
> *' It's my insurance and my ass I know but my guys are pros and I trust them to stay safe no need for a pointless meeting.'*
> 
> ...famous last words. I hope he *never ever* has an accident on the job. I was involved in a project where one of our painters was killed when a fixed stair platform at a food processing facility gave way for no apparant reason. He fell 12 feet. When I got there the Medivac was leaving because it was to late. 38 years old with 2 kids. Training would not have changed a thing but the point of good safety training is to create an awareness of the potential dangers we face in the painting business. It may be boring for some but if it helps a small percentage of "pros" take a second look before acting it is worth every boring second. And anyway good safety training doesn't have to be boring!


I thought the same thing but did not want to be negative on my second day on the forum.lol When the chit hits the fan be it OSHA or a bad accident the only thing a business owner has to hang his hat on is past safety record and training. Last week 2 companies I network with had crane deaths within hours of each other, it can happen no matter what you do. When the lifeflight copter is in the air and OSHA and the media are on your doorstep the time to train your workers has past.


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## nextlevelpaintco.

okay,didn't mean to sound to good for safety meetings,but I'm from NC and I'm sure the laws are different from northern states and union jobs (we don't have a union)it's basicaly the same thing on every job the gc stets up the meetings and the subs all have a seperate way of doing it usually just a video to watch.However staying up to osha code is my responsibility wich I do to the best of my ability.And my guys are pros.see when I first started painting(wich consisted of cleaning everything and sanding till my arm was numb)I was only 14 still in school working every weekend and summer by the time I was 16 I figured I like making money better than school so I quit(biggest mistake ever)and went to work full time.being young I bounced around company to company because for one a teenager is not much in demand and another I was driving illegaly so i had to stay local wich ment small time companys.Any way I must have worked for atleast 15 or 20 different companys before I finally stableized with a big industrial company at the age of 20.I worked and became friends with alot of ace painters during those bumpy years.When I finally decided to go out own my own I used my childhood friends for help because they were cheap.But as soon as i broke out into some big contracts and had my payroll ready I went after every ace I had worked with through out the years and that's why I trust them.  ohyeah,sorry about the A word I'm not used to chatting online.never had an interest in untill I found out they had one with painters.


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## Mandrake

Don't take my post personally I just wouldn't want anyone to assume that experienced painters aren't exposed to dangers. I'll never forget the sight of one of our foreman (a big strong guy) crying uncontrollably for what seemed like hours because one of his painters died on his job.

I started painting at 15 in high school and took my share of risks. I was in a botswains chair once on a chuch steeple without any safety line back in the early eighties for about $7.00/hr. Risking my life for 7 bucks - what an idiot! I know what its like, as you said, a quick safety talk and yeah yeah yeah...back to work. Those type of meetings are often a joke. As I said, what I try to accomplish with painters and management is an atmosphere an attitude of safety awareness.

Regards
Mandrake


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## Wolverine

We had a customer lose a whole crew a couple of months ago... one man died and the others were burned pretty bad. This was a very consciencious crew. Accidents happen... I believe that keeping safety in the forefront of your mind could mean the difference in coming home late or not coming home at all. 

We'll never know definitively what happened... but... all of these guys went to work expecting to go home...

http://www.firedirect.net/News/0713-0901.htm


Work safe today!


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## Mandrake

What a sad story - they were outside the tank - wow!

There have been a couple similar type accidents up here in the Boston Area. Many of the floor refinishers are Vietnamese immigrants. There were two separate fatalities when solvent vapor build-up was ignited by stove pilots. Some basic education about the dangers might have saved their lives.


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## Wolverine

> Some basic education about the dangers might have saved their lives.


Or... if they had just bought a solvent free product... from us!


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## Mandrake

Agree!

One thing I try to emphasize in my training sessions, particularly HazCom, is to remove the hazard by substituting products. The high or 100% solids over a nice alternative at times. However many of the contractors look at the intial price and back off.

Mndrk


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## Joewho

Well, there's farmer saftey and there's osha safety. Sometimes you can't use farmer saftey when osha is around.


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## uglyjoe

everything you need is located at http://osha.gov

your tax dollars have already paid for them to help you


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## paintingfla

*New Guy Has Osha Questions*

Hi,

I am grateful to see the different views on this thread. I was reading on the Department of Labor website that OSHA inspections were up for 2007 and on the rise.

Newly in business I was referred to a broker guy who helps me locate the right employee leasing comapny and he told me that they will help me create a safety program and help me set up my OSHA logs

He owns a company called First Place Employer Services out of Sarasota, Florida.

Does anyone have any experience with an employee leasing company helping you with yuor OSHA stuff?

HELP!

Slowly working my way to a paint Talk T-Shirt.....

:thumbup:


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## daArch

*EDIT: This post and the ones following refer to a spammer's post that has since been deleted. Thank you Pat for bringing this spammer's technique to my attention* 



I think this may be a necropost record. 

FIVE years.


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## PatsPainting

Bill - its a spam fook, does not count


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## daArch

PatsPainting said:


> Bill - its a spam fook, does not count


AH HA,

so we should say "bu - bye" ? and hit the ban hammer?


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## PatsPainting

You still need to go and edit his signature or his posts as his links are still there. Different links in each of his posts

Pat


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## daArch

PatsPainting said:


> You still need to go and edit his signature or his posts as his links are still there. Different links in each of his posts
> 
> Pat


Thanks Pat,

As we know, sig files are within the rules, BUT this guy has made his link LOOK like a sig file, I think I'll just "ban him as spam" and delete ALL his posts instead of going through each one and editing.

thanks for the heads up.


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