# Glasslike finish



## IsabellaCI (Feb 7, 2021)

I used to be able to get a glasslike finish years ago with a small hvlp turbine unit I had purchased from Rockler probably around 2000. That unit is long gone. I have had a Graco Ultimate for about 5 years now, and have gotten really good with it. I picked up a Graco Ultimate MX a couple months ago, and it works just as good. I recently picked up a Titan Flex Spray with the fine finish head, and an Earlex SprayPort HV6003 with the Pro8 pressure feed gun. 
I always sprayed Emerald Urethane Trim Enamel and BM Advance with the Graco guns and always came out with a near glasslike finish, but never perfect. I’m looking to achieve my perfect finish for touch ups, and whatever else I have to spray at a customer’s house when installing. I have been doing a ton of research and experimenting with the hvlp guns I mentioned. I’ve tried different viscosities, needles and caps on the Earlex, different extenders, distilled water, butyl cellusolve, etc. I’ve tried a million different scenarios with the Flexspray as well. I’m hoping people could chime in with how they mix the Emerald and Advance to get glasslike finishes, and needle and cap sizes etc. Settings for the Flexspray as well. I can’t purchase a 4 or 5 stage right now, but it’s in my near future plans. I also have an accuspray unit that I believe is an air assist. It’s hvlp, electrostatic, and even has a fluid heater. I’ve never used it. I will comment a little later with settings and mixes I’ve tried, have to go to the dr with my wife. My Sherwin Rep also gave me a gallon of a new product that isn’t out in very many places yet to play around with. It’s called Sherwood waterborne white topcoat. It has great characteristics. I’ll give more info on that in a little while too. I’m also looking to try Cabinet Coat, and whatever other finishes you guys recommend. 

Thanks in advance,
Jason


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

IsabellaCI said:


> I used to be able to get a glasslike finish years ago with a small hvlp turbine unit I had purchased from Rockler probably around 2000. That unit is long gone. I have had a Graco Ultimate for about 5 years now, and have gotten really good with it. I picked up a Graco Ultimate MX a couple months ago, and it works just as good. I recently picked up a Titan Flex Spray with the fine finish head, and an Earlex SprayPort HV6003 with the Pro8 pressure feed gun.
> I always sprayed Emerald Urethane Trim Enamel and BM Advance with the Graco guns and always came out with a near glasslike finish, but never perfect. I’m looking to achieve my perfect finish for touch ups, and whatever else I have to spray at a customer’s house when installing. I have been doing a ton of research and experimenting with the hvlp guns I mentioned. I’ve tried different viscosities, needles and caps on the Earlex, different extenders, distilled water, butyl cellusolve, etc. I’ve tried a million different scenarios with the Flexspray as well. I’m hoping people could chime in with how they mix the Emerald and Advance to get glasslike finishes, and needle and cap sizes etc. Settings for the Flexspray as well. I can’t purchase a 4 or 5 stage right now, but it’s in my near future plans. I also have an accuspray unit that I believe is an air assist. It’s hvlp, electrostatic, and even has a fluid heater. I’ve never used it. I will comment a little later with settings and mixes I’ve tried, have to go to the dr with my wife. My Sherwin Rep also gave me a gallon of a new product that isn’t out in very many places yet to play around with. It’s called Sherwood waterborne white topcoat. It has great characteristics. I’ll give more info on that in a little while too. I’m also looking to try Cabinet Coat, and whatever other finishes you guys recommend.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Jason


After seeing a FPE trained guy brush out a sample of hollandlac I can confidently say nothing produces a glass like finish like that product. I move a lot of advance and CC but those are second rate finishes compared to what FPE can achieve.


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## IsabellaCI (Feb 7, 2021)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> After seeing a FPE trained guy brush out a sample of hollandlac I can confidently say nothing produces a glass like finish like that product. I move a lot of advance and CC but those are second rate finishes compared to what FPE can achieve.


I’ve never heard of that. Shows you I’m a carpenter that paints lol! I’ll have to check it out. Where do you get it?


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## IsabellaCI (Feb 7, 2021)

Are you talking about oil or waterborne?


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

IsabellaCI said:


> Are you talking about oil or waterborne?


Oil of course. Waterborne has come a long way but really there isn't anything else that will produce a finish like hollandlac.


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## IsabellaCI (Feb 7, 2021)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Oil of course. Waterborne has come a long way but really there isn't anything else that will produce a finish like hollandlac.


Well, I’ll definitely try it! I love oil (I forgot to mention I have a few automotive hvlp spray guns, one really nice one), but I’d use that on pieces I build and spray in the shop, but a lot of what I’m doing is built ins and I’m using the high hide white emerald or advance to match and blend in to the house’s existing trim work. So I’m looking for “green”, low voc, etc for the type of homeowners I deal with.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

IsabellaCI said:


> Well, I’ll definitely try it! I love oil (I forgot to mention I have a few automotive hvlp spray guns, one really nice one), but I’d use that on pieces I build and spray in the shop, but a lot of what I’m doing is built ins and I’m using the high hide white emerald or advance to match and blend in to the house’s existing trim work. So I’m looking for “green”, low voc, etc for the type of homeowners I deal with.


Cabinetcoat sprays far better and leaves a much smoother satin finish than emerald urethane, sufficient for most of your trim work. Try some lenmr 1WB.200 undercoater and cabinetcoat or scuffx.

For the naysayers hating on CC they havn't realized that 90% of other contractors use garbage like do-it-best kitchen & bath on their trim packs and are plenty happy with it.


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## IsabellaCI (Feb 7, 2021)

With my Graco handhelds, I’ve had the best finishes with emerald and advance straight from the can, 310fflp tip on speed 7 moving at a moderate pace about 10” from the workpiece. It comes out looking really good and smooth, but if you really look hard, you can see a very slight orange peel from not completely flowing out. I’ve tried adding floetrol and m1 extender and got the same results. 
With the Titan Flexspray, I got very good results with emerald and the Sherwood topcoat thinned to about 30 seconds with distilled water and very little extender (floetrol, m1, and GF enduro). Almost as good of results with 45 seconds. I have to have the air 8-12, mainly 12, with the fluid on 1. If I increase the fluid, I get bad orange peel, but with it set like that, it goes on almost perfectly smooth with a tiny bit of gritty texture that doesn’t flow out. I’m thinking I’m overatomizing it. 
With the Earlex, I’ve tried the 1.3mm needle with 1.3-2.0 cap, and the 2.5 wide spray needle and cap. Better results with the 1.3. Spraying thinned just like with the Titan. I just picked up a 2.0 needle and cap, but haven’t tried it yet. I also have a .8 needle and cap that I haven’t tried because I assume that’s way too small. I have yet to be able to get the 1.5 or 1.8 needles. 
So in summary, I can either get it smooth but orange peely, or really even and almost smooth but with a very fine gritty look. I also have some Benjamin Moore extender I haven’t tried yet, and I could pick up some windshield washer fluid. I have GF accelerator, although that is irrelevant. Environment is 65-75 degrees, although has been at 10% humidity.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

In general fine gritty appearance with hvlp generally means you need to thin your material more. I've shot all sorts latex through my graco edge2plus and 1.3mm tip, fluid and air usually around set to around 3/4


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

With Advance, I have way better luck using an airless. That aside, touchups after a spray finish should be done with an artist brush. Either that or respray the whole unit..


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## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

finishesbykevyn said:


> With Advance, I have way better luck using an airless. That aside, touchups after a spray finish should be done with an artist brush. Either that or respray the whole unit..


Ever try touching up sprayed stuff with the little Preval sprayers? I haven't... but wondering whether it would work.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Funny, I havent used one of those in years. Good idea actually Joe, but I cant recall how much splatter those things produce. Maybe good for an inconspicuous area, but on a not a cabinet door front on a sun wall..? I dunno. Better off respraying the whole thing id say..


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## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Funny, I havent used one of those in years. Good idea actually Joe, but I cant recall how much splatter those things produce. Maybe good for an inconspicuous area, but on a not a cabinet door front on a sun wall..? I dunno. Better off respraying the whole thing id say..


I dunno either, but I'm going to try it sometime. I've only gotten into one of those once in a blue moon - it's rare that it's useful to be in something that miniature. But mostly they do atomize quite well without splatter if you keep the tip clean and the can shaken - you know, no different from a rattle can, really.


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## IsabellaCI (Feb 7, 2021)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Cabinetcoat sprays far better and leaves a much smoother satin finish than emerald urethane, sufficient for most of your trim work. Try some lenmr 1WB.200 undercoater and cabinetcoat or scuffx.
> 
> For the naysayers hating on CC they havn't realized that 90% of other contractors use garbage like do-it-best kitchen & bath on their trim packs and are plenty happy with it.





cocomonkeynuts said:


> Cabinetcoat sprays far better and leaves a much smoother satin finish than emerald urethane, sufficient for most of your trim work. Try some lenmr 1WB.200 undercoater and cabinetcoat or scuffx.
> 
> For the naysayers hating on CC they havn't realized that 90% of other contractors use garbage like do-it-best kitchen & bath on their trim packs and are plenty happy with it.


I will definitely pick up some Cabinetcoat. I thought I’d grab some the other day at the store I saw Stix, but they don’t have it yet. I’ll have to try the other two also. At that same store, I pointed out the Do it Best to my wife and told her never to buy anything with that name lol!


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## IsabellaCI (Feb 7, 2021)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> In general fine gritty appearance with hvlp generally means you need to thin your material more. I've shot all sorts latex through my graco edge2plus and 1.3mm tip, fluid and air usually around set to around 3/4


Would you happen to know about how many seconds in a #4 Ford cup?


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## IsabellaCI (Feb 7, 2021)

finishesbykevyn said:


> With Advance, I have way better luck using an airless. That aside, touchups after a spray finish should be done with an artist brush. Either that or respray the whole unit..


Do you get Advance glasslike? Straight or thinned? 310fflp? I’m just about there straight from the can, but not quite perfect. I was hoping to dial in the hvlps thinking I wouldn’t have to worry as much on the overspray. As far as touch ups, I had just noticed playing with settings on test panels that with a lot of air and very little fluid with the hvlp, doing a small spot on a test panel, I couldn’t see where I had sprayed when it was dry. Previously coated in the same paint. Figured I could get it dialed in perfect. 
I haven’t tried the Preval Joe, but I have a very similar can you fill up with an air compressor I’ve had forever and haven’t touched in at least 10 years. If I can find it, I’ll try it. About the rattle cans (which I have almost never used since I was a teen), I tried priming a face frame with a can of BIN, and a can of SW Shellac the other day. Short light bursts it was coming out beautifully, then all of a sudden spits out a half second mop coat lol! Ugh. Both paints, same thing.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

IsabellaCI said:


> Would you happen to know about how many seconds in a #4 Ford cup?


I have never measured with a cup we just put a stick in and thin until the drops are about 1 second a part.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Joe67 said:


> Ever try touching up sprayed stuff with the little Preval sprayers? I haven't... but wondering whether it would work.


prevals are terrible and I refuse to carry them because I would undoubtedly have someone come back and want me to cover 'damages' done by a product I sold. I would only use them for some exterior DTM fencing and then I would buy two in case one of them didn't spray correctly.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

IsabellaCI said:


> Do you get Advance glasslike? Straight or thinned? 310fflp? I’m just about there straight from the can, but not quite perfect. I was hoping to dial in the hvlps thinking I wouldn’t have to worry as much on the overspray. As far as touch ups, I had just noticed playing with settings on test panels that with a lot of air and very little fluid with the hvlp, doing a small spot on a test panel, I couldn’t see where I had sprayed when it was dry. Previously coated in the same paint. Figured I could get it dialed in perfect.
> I haven’t tried the Preval Joe, but I have a very similar can you fill up with an air compressor I’ve had forever and haven’t touched in at least 10 years. If I can find it, I’ll try it. About the rattle cans (which I have almost never used since I was a teen), I tried priming a face frame with a can of BIN, and a can of SW Shellac the other day. Short light bursts it was coming out beautifully, then all of a sudden spits out a half second mop coat lol! Ugh. Both paints, same thing.


Yes, when I spray Advance with my airless, it's honestly like a sheet of glass. It flows out like nothing I've ever seen. Can't get it like that with my hvlp. But I spray and dry my doors horizontally.


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## IsabellaCI (Feb 7, 2021)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> prevals are terrible and I refuse to carry them because I would undoubtedly have someone come back and want me to cover 'damages' done by a product I sold. I would only use them for some exterior DTM fencing and then I would buy two in case one of them didn't spray correctly.


Sounds like something I don’t want to even try lol!


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## IsabellaCI (Feb 7, 2021)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> I have never measured with a cup we just put a stick in and thin until the drops are about 1 second a part.


Well, I’ll try that, and then measure with the cup and take note.


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## IsabellaCI (Feb 7, 2021)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Yes, when I spray Advance with my airless, it's honestly like a sheet of glass. It flows out like nothing I've ever seen. Can't get it like that with my hvlp. But I spray and dry my doors horizontally.


That sounds beautiful! What tip do you use? 310fflp? Do you thin or add extenders? Unfortunately I spray a bunch of stuff I can’t lay down. The stuff I can I do.


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## canopainting (Feb 12, 2013)

Its not just the application method, a lot of this has to do with the material you are laying down.


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## IsabellaCI (Feb 7, 2021)

canopainting said:


> Its not just the application method, a lot of this has to do with the material you are laying down.


Are you suggesting to use a different product?


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

IsabellaCI said:


> That sounds beautiful! What tip do you use? 310fflp? Do you thin or add extenders? Unfortunately I spray a bunch of stuff I can’t lay down. The stuff I can I do.


310, 308, 208. No thinning.


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## IsabellaCI (Feb 7, 2021)

finishesbykevyn said:


> 310, 308, 208. No thinning.


I have gotten great results with 310, 308, and 210 without thinning, but not quite perfect. Very slight orange peel with the 10s, and very slightly grainy with the 8s. I wonder if it’s because of the extremely low humidity, being too close or slow with the 10s, or too far away with the 8s. Or a combination. All my best coats on all those tips were at 4 mils wet. I tried m1 extender and floetrol with those setups, but didn’t really help. With the hvlp, all the decent results I got were barely 1 mil.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

IsabellaCI said:


> I have gotten great results with 310, 308, and 210 without thinning, but not quite perfect. Very slight orange peel with the 10s, and very slightly grainy with the 8s. I wonder if it’s because of the extremely low humidity, being too close or slow with the 10s, or too far away with the 8s. Or a combination. All my best coats on all those tips were at 4 mils wet. I tried m1 extender and floetrol with those setups, but didn’t really help. With the hvlp, all the decent results I got were barely 1 mil.


 To me that doesn't make any sense. Advance does all the work. I can get away with 1 coat if i wanted. Over lapping 50%, it honestly just flows out like a sheet of glass. Maybe its your sprayer.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

I mostly use my graco 490 ultra with 308 tip.


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## IsabellaCI (Feb 7, 2021)

finishesbykevyn said:


> To me that doesn't make any sense. Advance does all the work. I can get away with 1 coat if i wanted. Over lapping 50%, it honestly just flows out like a sheet of glass. Maybe its your sprayer.


I guess it’s possible it could be one of the sprayers, but I’m thinking it’s more my technique somehow. I’m also spraying vertical, which doesn’t help. Your doors look beautiful! Exactly what I’m looking for. I guess I’ll just have to play around some more.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

IsabellaCI said:


> I guess it’s possible it could be one of the sprayers, but I’m thinking it’s more my technique somehow. I’m also spraying vertical, which doesn’t help. Your doors look beautiful! Exactly what I’m looking for. I guess I’ll just have to play around some more.


Thanks. Ya, spraying vertically is definitely more challenging. You can't lay it on as thick or it may run.


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