# What? Spray Alkyd on your faceframes inside?



## Painter One (Feb 5, 2012)

I am being asked to paint some cabinets in Alkyd and was thinking of using ProClassic Oil. I was told I could only use oil paint/alkyd and it had to be a factory finish ---everywhere. My buddy says he uses and airless to do this all of the time. 

*Is my bud right, you can spray faceframes inside? Is it a good idea? Have you tried it? Got a better idea? Help!*


I had a bad experience once with the paint making the floors sticky and even once had a tiny hole in the plastic let some fog land on a table and wisp a part of the floor which scared the crap out of me. What you think? The guys is older and simply will not permit brushing or water anything. The last painter devastated the cabinets with oil brushing over the hidden hinges, lots of runs, little prep based on the peeling near pulls etc. They guy say it has to be perfection or else he might as well buy new cabinets.
:no::yes::notworthy:


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Painter One said:


> I am being asked to paint some cabinets in Alkyd and was thinking of using ProClassic Oil. I was told I could only use oil paint/alkyd and it had to be a factory finish ---everywhere. My buddy says he uses and airless to do this all of the time. I had a bad experience once with the paint making the floors sticky and even once had a tiny hole in the plastic let some fog land on a table and wisp a part of the floor which scared the crap out of me. What you think? The guys is older and simply will not permit brushing or water anything. The last painter devastated the cabinets with oil brushing over the hidden hinges, lots of runs, little prep based on the peeling near pulls etc. They guy say it has to be perfection or else he might as well buy new cabinets.
> :no::yes::notworthy:


whatcho talkin 'bout Willis? 

im not even sure what or if you have a question in your post. . .


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

i personally do not spray door casings and window frames in an occupied house. it can be done but you must cover up everything in the house and the time involved to do that usually prices me out of the job. if they want a sprayed finish on all the door and window frames in an occupied house the cost could be double or even triple the cost of brushing them.

tell the guy that brushing oil will leave a glass like finish and no need to spray. paint one frame and let him be the judge.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

I spray cabs in occupied homes all the time. Zip walls and ventilation.


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

Paradigmzz said:


> I spray cabs in occupied homes all the time. Zip walls and ventilation.


he's talking about door and window frames using oil...cabinets are a different story. you can contain the dust with zipwalls or poly over the kitchen door frames.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Xmark said:


> he's talking about door and window frames using oil...cabinets are a different story. you can contain the dust with zipwalls or poly over the kitchen door frames.


Where does he say casings or frames? My ADD is acting up, i thought he mentioned cabs. . .


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

i must be blind. :blink: i misread it. nevermind.

I had the thread title in mind; "What? Spray Alkyd on your faceframes inside?"


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## Painter One (Feb 5, 2012)

Xmark said:


> i personally do not spray door casings and window frames in an occupied house. it can be done but you must cover up everything in the house and the time involved to do that usually prices me out of the job. if they want a sprayed finish on all the door and window frames in an occupied house the cost could be double or even triple the cost of brushing them.
> 
> tell the guy that brushing oil will leave a glass like finish and no need to spray. paint one frame and let him be the judge.


Yes I agree about the covering up. Oil paint dissolves in the air and gets on everything. And the last guy left brush strokes on everything including the hidden hinges. He said it had to be absolutely a factory finish or he might as well buy a set of cabinets. But the granite is down. He was freaking out when I gave him the price and even then I am reluctant to do it. He is hard headed and old enough to think that all waterbased paints are inferior ......he is pushing me for a lower price, I am willing to cut maybe 200 for a quick start date but some jobs are monster problems. Maybe I will pass, but I hate to loose.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

He's hard headed, old, wants a perfect job, has to be his way and he is complaining about the price. I would freaking run on this one.

Pat


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

Painter One said:


> Yes I agree about the covering up. Oil paint dissolves in the air and gets on everything. And the last guy left brush strokes on everything including the hidden hinges. He said it had to be absolutely a factory finish or he might as well buy a set of cabinets. But the granite is down. He was freaking out when I gave him the price and even then I am reluctant to do it. He is hard headed and old enough to think that all waterbased paints are inferior ......he is pushing me for a lower price, I am willing to cut maybe 200 for a quick start date but some jobs are monster problems. Maybe I will pass, but I hate to loose.


wow,it's even worse than i thought. so you have to sand out all the previous brush strokes,remove all the old paint off the hinges and he wants them to look factory finish? lol...i'd pass


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## cdaniels (Oct 20, 2012)

Xmark said:


> wow,it's even worse than i thought. so you have to sand out all the previous brush strokes,remove all the old paint off the hinges and he wants them to look factory finish? lol...i'd pass


I wouldn't necessarily pass, but stick to your original bid.You priced the job at what you needed to get paid for the "factory finish" he wants and that is what you should get.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

PatsPainting said:


> He's hard headed, old, wants a perfect job, has to be his way and he is complaining about the price. I would freaking run on this one.
> 
> Pat


There is no such thing as perfect. He's already told you he wants perfect. Sounds like trouble to me. I would pass on this one too. Sometimes it's better to stay at home for a few days than do a job that's just trouble and you work your a$$ off on and the client isn't happy and you don't make money. Bad combo. 
Especially if you have to fix someone's bad previous job. Maybe you could get paid T&M to do a little section and see if you and he are on the same page?


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Painter One said:


> Yes I agree about the covering up. Oil paint dissolves in the air and gets on everything. And the last guy left brush strokes on everything including the hidden hinges. He said it had to be absolutely a factory finish or he might as well buy a set of cabinets. But the granite is down. He was freaking out when I gave him the price and even then I am reluctant to do it. He is hard headed and old enough to think that all waterbased paints are inferior ......he is pushing me for a lower price, I am willing to cut maybe 200 for a quick start date but some jobs are monster problems. Maybe I will pass, but I hate to loose.


 I've done this for over 30 years. All I see is red flags. Cut your price? Are you running a business or selling a used car? I never cut my prices. Heres the deal.......In 30+ years of painting, I have NEVER lost money on a job I didn't get  Trust me, you need to walk away from this one. :yes:


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## Masterpiece (Feb 26, 2008)

You have to educate the potential client about the situation, however, if they cannot/will not understand or appreciate your position, what is needed and accept the cost, I would likely tactfully walk away after explaining my position as a professional.

It's always funny what people place value on anyway...how many are willing to spend $1000 on a television, piece of furniture or worse but won't spend the same on any portion of their home??

And he spent money on granite....???

Sounds like a potential headache in the making but if you accept it, have your detailed contract ready lol.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

PatsPainting said:


> He's hard headed, old, wants a perfect job, has to be his way and he is complaining about the price. I would freaking run on this one.
> 
> Pat


I would have told him what the price of new cabinets would have been. Its really easy to sell a cabinet repaint after they see that number.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Woodland said:


> I've done this for over 30 years. All I see is red flags. Cut your price? Are you running a business or selling a used car? I never cut my prices. Heres the deal.......In 30+ years of painting, I have NEVER lost money on a job I didn't get  Trust me, you need to walk away from this one. :yes:


Yes, the OP's description of the job makes the alarm bells in my head ring so loudly that I can hardly think. The owner wants perfection AND he wants you to lower your price. I think the best bet on this one is to give him a business card from a competitor. 

I can almost guarantee that this would turn into multiple callbacks, messing up both your schedule and your bottom line.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I disagree somewhat, there are those clients who are just enough like that but only will want the best and ultimately are more than willing to pay for it. You just have perform at close to 100% which isn't something many contractors can do and make money.


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## propainterJ (Jan 31, 2011)

Oil base is inferior to acrylics in today's world,it fades quicker,it yellows.It sucks

Tell him that,then take 1 drawer out,mask it off,spray it with whatever you using,show it to him,if he dont like it your not out too much and you RUN!


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

straight_lines said:


> I disagree somewhat, there are those clients who are just enough like that but only will want the best and ultimately are more than willing to pay for it. You just have perform at close to 100% which isn't something many contractors can do and make money.


I totally agree with what your saying Tommy, but in this case I disagree. The OP mentioned the customer was trying to get him to go down on his price. Those are not the kind of customers I want. When I take the time to do an estimate, the figure I come up with is the price. Its not up for negotiation. The only way I can lower my price is to use cheaper materials, maybe do one coat instead of two and those are things I dont care to do. Maybe if I ran a bigger company I could cut corners to cut prices, but I dont. I run a one man show and I pick and choose the jobs I take on. 

Another thing I have learned over the years is to trust my gut. Through trial and error I have learned the hard way to trust my insticts if I get a bad feeling about a potential client. I do quality work, but every once in a while I would get a customer who is just totally impossible no matter what or how much I do. I dont need the headaches. The OP is obviously not feeling right about this one or he wouldnt be posting. I say RUN FOREST RUN!!!!!


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

Yep - it's all comes down to can you meet the expectations or exceed them. What makes this so bad is the customer took a chit when he heard the price. This is almost always the sign to just say "NO" I have read several quotes here at this site from people that the most powerful word in business is "NO"

The only way I would even think of entertaining this job is if I had nothing in front of me as far as work and take Damons advice and try a sample to see if you guys are on the same page. Pick the worse door, drawer and give it a shot.

Keep us updated on this is you can.

Pat


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Woodland said:


> I totally agree with what your saying Tommy, but in this case I disagree. The OP mentioned the customer was trying to get him to go down on his price. Those are not the kind of customers I want. When I take the time to do an estimate, the figure I come up with is the price. Its not up for negotiation. The only way I can lower my price is to use cheaper materials, maybe do one coat instead of two and those are things I dont care to do. Maybe if I ran a bigger company I could cut corners to cut prices, but I dont. I run a one man show and I pick and choose the jobs I take on.
> 
> Another thing I have learned over the years is to trust my gut. Through trial and error I have learned the hard way to trust my insticts if I get a bad feeling about a potential client. I do quality work, but every once in a while I would get a customer who is just totally impossible no matter what or how much I do. I dont need the headaches. The OP is obviously not feeling right about this one or he wouldnt be posting. I say RUN FOREST RUN!!!!!


Mike, the big Red Flag to me was the potential client talking about "perfection". I think we turn out excellent work, but I've learned to avoid clients who use that word. In our experience, those jobs have been stinkers. As you write, you have to learn to trust your gut. My gut tells me that this is one to avoid.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Gough said:


> Mike, the big Red Flag to me was the potential client talking about "perfection". I think we turn out excellent work, but I've learned to avoid clients who use that word. In our experience, those jobs have been stinkers. As you write, you have to learn to trust your gut. My gut tells me that this is one to avoid.


True. That was another red flag. A painter might do some high quality work, but there is no such thing as a "perfect" paint job. Speaking of red flags, heres another one.......a potential client carrying on about all the problems they have had with various contractors over the years. Ok, we all know theres no shortage of hacks and fly by night contractors. Theres guys out there flat out ripping people off. But, when someone has problems with every contractor they hire? Well, the problem might not be the contractors.


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## Painter One (Feb 5, 2012)

Keep us updated on this is you can.

Pat[/QUOTE]


I started thinking due to the urgency that this might be kind of a Christmas present and althought I came very close to bailing out I gave him a lower bid but said it was firm. Two guys I know say they have used airless sprayers and oil paint on cabinets in the house I can get the better one over there. I did a little research on a new Rack 10 fine finish tip I got and the Graco site says that the one I just bought is too small for oil. I recently used a regular compressor and an air hvlp cup from Harbor Freight with a lot of Penetrol in it to paint some outdoor furniture and a sample door that I showed him that might come in handy on areas next to the stove or dishwasher. They even have a fine finish 2 inch fan you can get but it is one size under the orifice they suggest for oil paint. I might get it but I do wish I had more experience with the new cab lacquers.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

*i*



Painter One said:


> Keep us updated on this is you can.
> 
> Pat



I started thinking due to the urgency that this might be kind of a Christmas present and althought I came very close to bailing out I gave him a lower bid but said it was firm. Two guys I know say they have used airless sprayers and oil paint on cabinets in the house I can get the better one over there. I did a little research on a new Rack 10 fine finish tip I got and the Graco site says that the one I just bought is too small for oil. I recently used a regular compressor and an air hvlp cup from Harbor Freight with a lot of Penetrol in it to paint some outdoor furniture and a sample door that I showed him that might come in handy on areas next to the stove or dishwasher. They even have a fine finish 2 inch fan you can get but it is one size under the orifice they suggest for oil paint. I might get it but I do wish I had more experience with the new cab lacquers.[/QUOTE]

If the color is white or off-white, Penetrol can come back to bite you. We've been called in to fix cabs that have turned almost orange because of the amount of it that the previous painter used. In a previous thread, XIM Extender was suggested as a non-yellowing additive.

http://www.painttalk.com/f6/penetrol-vs-thinner-4162/


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Its not hard. I've shot dozens and dozens of sets of cabinets out with an airless. Most of them I did with 411 and 413 tips. As for the double orfice tips...... A 310, 312, 410 or 412 FF is a good tip. Its all personal preference and what your used to. Myself, I prefer a 400 tip for enamel work over a 300 unless Im just shooting door frames, then I will go with a 300 or maybe a 200. I also tend to keep the gun a little closer to my work then some guys do. When I spray oil, I do a "tack coat" first, let it "flash", then I come back and drill it til its on the verge of running :thumbup: (Dont try this if your not fluent in spraying oil) I've shot thousands of gallons over the years


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## Painter One (Feb 5, 2012)

Gough said:


> I started thinking due to the urgency that this might be kind of a Christmas present and althought I came very close to bailing out I gave him a lower bid but said it was firm. Two guys I know say they have used airless sprayers and oil paint on cabinets in the house I can get the better one over there. I did a little research on a new Rack 10 fine finish tip I got and the Graco site says that the one I just bought is too small for oil. I recently used a regular compressor and an air hvlp cup from Harbor Freight wi
> If the color is white or off-white, Penetrol can come back to bite you. We've been called in to fix cabs that have turned almost orange because of the amount of it that the previous painter used. In a previous thread, XIM Extender was suggested as a non-yellowing additive.
> 
> http://www.painttalk.com/f6/penetrol-vs-thinner-4162/



I have only had weird problems come up when I have used oil paint with additives. I used to do a lot of oilbased glaze antiquing and topcoat it with some solvent varnish, but due to yellowing, the slow drying and delays in tweaking etc, I switched to waterbased and finally to only Proclassic latex. I have painted the styles and casings repeatedly with an HVLP and water paint and had good results but generally I will brush the cases. I found that you can put some xim extender in the latex and a dot of Floetrol and conquer everything. I really think this job could be a monster because the homeowner is so sure he knows stuff he does not know, maybe I won't get the job. I can brush out oil really well. But I bet the clown who screwed up the cabinets before he bought the house told them the same thing.


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

Painter One said:


> I am being asked to paint some cabinets in Alkyd and was thinking of using ProClassic Oil. I was told I could only use oil paint/alkyd and it had to be a factory finish ---everywhere. My buddy says he uses and airless to do this all of the time.
> 
> *Is my bud right, you can spray faceframes inside? Is it a good idea? Have you tried it? Got a better idea? Help!*
> 
> ...


Rookies...


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