# Advance with no primer



## finishesbykevyn

Thoughts on painting Advance over varnished cabinet doors with no primer.
I've done it before with a black with great results. 
Reason I'm considering this, is because I'm painting a very dark espresso over a dark walnut stain. There is no way I can get a primer tinted that dark and don't like having a light coloured primer under a dark paint.
Plus this is just for the sale of a house. I don't mind priming but thought I would see what you all thought about the adhesion properties of Advance. .


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## Woodco

What about a clear shellac? I wouldnt trust advance on varnish with no primer.

Cabinet coat might adhere better, but Im not sure.


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## finishesbykevyn

Woodco said:


> What about a clear shellac? I wouldnt trust advance on varnish with no primer.
> 
> Cabinet coat might adhere better, but Im not sure.


Hmm. That may be a good option.. 

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## Jmayspaint

I think it would be fine if you throughly de-glossed everything first. 


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## Rbriggs82

You can go with the 250 version of Breakthrough right over it without a problem just clean it good first. 

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## cocomonkeynuts

finishesbykevyn said:


> Thoughts on painting Advance over varnished cabinet doors with no primer.
> I've done it before with a black with great results.
> Reason I'm considering this, is because I'm painting a very dark espresso over a dark walnut stain. There is no way I can get a primer tinted that dark and don't like having a light coloured primer under a dark paint.
> Plus this is just for the sale of a house. I don't mind priming but thought I would see what you all thought about the adhesion properties of Advance. .
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk


Advance as pretty good adhesion out of the can, not sure I would use it over varnish though. Aqualock comes in a stock black btw.


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## finishesbykevyn

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Advance as pretty good adhesion out of the can, not sure I would use it over varnish though. Aqualock comes in a stock black btw.


Thanks coco. I think Fresh start can be tinted pretty dark too ya? Would you recommend one over the other for adhesion.?

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## finishesbykevyn

Rbriggs82 said:


> You can go with the 250 version of Breakthrough right over it without a problem just clean it good first.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


Can't get the 250 here..

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## cocomonkeynuts

finishesbykevyn said:


> Thanks coco. I think Fresh start can be tinted pretty dark too ya? Would you recommend one over the other for adhesion.?
> 
> Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk



Freshstart does come in a deep tint base and is going to be a lot easier to find. I don't stock much of the aqualock anyway, i know several users here like aqualock but everyone I have demo'd it to prefer the freshstart for one reason or another. CabinetCoat does claim to be able to spray directly over varnished surfaces, just give it a good cleaning and sanding.


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## Packard

I had problems with Breakthrough! over shellac (it caused crazing). 

Benjamin Moore recommends against going over BIN shellac based primer (they say it is too brittle). I am getting this last part second hand:

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/bin-shellac-primer-then-stix-then-advance-dsvw-vd~4709836

_I tested using Bin Shellac white based primer and then top coated with BM Advance. I placed a call to BM and they told me not to use BIN as it is not compatible with Advance. _


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## Woodco

I've heard to not use BIN under advance as well.


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## CApainter

I like to follow manufacturer recommendations. The following link answers questions about Advance and suggested primers. https://sweets.construction.com/Benjamin-Moore---Co-NST2602/FILES/844919-PDF


The internet is great for this stuff!


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## finishesbykevyn

I've used BIN under Advance without any issues. I didn't see anything about that in the PDS?
Rule of thumb for Advance is to not top coat over anything for 24hrs..
However, back to my OP, I ended up tinting some fresh start 100% Acrylic to a dark brown as my primer coat.
I felt much better about priming. However. . It sure didn't stick like the Stix does. Atleast not in the darker colour. That goes for the darker colours in Advance as well. Man it was so fragile the next day. Every speck of dust or finger print. 
I ended up also spraying 2 coats of Stays Clear on it just to be sure. Much better now..
Advance in the lighter tones is bullet proof. The darker tones just don't harden up the same..

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## CApainter

finishesbykevyn said:


> I've used BIN under Advance without any issues. I didn't see anything about that in the PDS?


 
I mentioned in another post how painters have the propensity for experimentation. Sometimes it'll work and other times it may not. But given the challenges and conditions faced when using the liquid building material known as Paint, I prefer to put the onus on the manufacturer's recommendations rather than try to defend my hillbilly science.


I'm guessing that since it isn't mentioned in the TDS, BM doesn't recommend pigmented shellac as a primer under Advance.


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## finishesbykevyn

CApainter said:


> I mentioned in another post how painters have the propensity for experimentation. Sometimes it'll work and other times it may not. But given the challenges and conditions faced when using the liquid building material known as Paint, I prefer to put the onus on the manufacturer's recommendations rather than try to defend my hillbilly science.
> 
> 
> I'm guessing that since it isn't mentioned in the TDS, BM doesn't recommend pigmented shellac as a primer under Advance.


Haha. Fair enough. They also don't mention Stix primer, but my rep supports that. Although it does nothing for tannin bleed, but Sticks better than any of them IMO.
I'm thinking 1 coat of BIN and then a coat of Stix would be a good system..

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## CApainter

finishesbykevyn said:


> Haha. Fair enough. They also don't mention Stix primer, but my rep supports that. Although it does nothing for tannin bleed, but Sticks better than any of them IMO.
> I'm thinking 1 coat of BIN and then a coat of Stix would be a good system..
> 
> Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk


 
I think the primers you mentioned for the application are really good. Including BIN. I'm just not confident the weirdness of Advance is necessarily compatible. Call me chicken. And as far as manufacturer's recommendation, often, if not always, they'll suggest their own products.


I would probably do a TDS comparison to see if different manufacturer products are actually similar.


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## store021

finishesbykevyn said:


> Thoughts on painting Advance over varnished cabinet doors with no primer.
> I've done it before with a black with great results.
> Reason I'm considering this, is because I'm painting a very dark espresso over a dark walnut stain. There is no way I can get a primer tinted that dark and don't like having a light coloured primer under a dark paint.
> Plus this is just for the sale of a house. I don't mind priming but thought I would see what you all thought about the adhesion properties of Advance. .
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk




I've used Seal Coat from Zinsser. It is a 100% wax free sealer that any coating can go over (paint, lacquer, oil, varnish, poly)


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## cocomonkeynuts

store021 said:


> I've used Seal Coat from Zinsser. It is a 100% wax free sealer that any coating can go over (paint, lacquer, oil, varnish, poly)



sealcoat is just a 2lbs cut dewaxed shellac


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## Mr Smith

cocomonkeynuts said:


> sealcoat is just a 2lbs cut dewaxed shellac


I've never made shellac. It's probably cheaper to make yourself with a little alcohol as the solvent.


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## Zoomer

What is so difficult about priming with white Bin shellac primer then applying two coats of Advance regardless of color.
Take a look at these dark cabinet doors primed with white Bin shellac primer and the first if two coats of Advance. No brainier, anything will cover in two coats if you are priming first and spraying two coats of Advance regardless of color


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## finishesbykevyn

Zoomer said:


> What is so difficult about priming with white Bin shellac primer then applying two coats of Advance regardless of color.
> Take a look at these dark cabinet doors primed with white Bin shellac primer and the first if two coats of Advance. No brainier, anything will cover in two coats if you are priming first and spraying two coats of Advance regardless of color


I wasn't so worried about the coverage. Your absolutely right it will cover with 2 coats sprayed. I just prefer to have a tinted primer in case of chipping. With a super dark brown /black top coat, any chips or scuffs will stand out like sore thumb on a white prime coat..
Nice rack btw! Is that the door rack painter rack?

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## Zoomer

You are correct. That is one of four dry racks from Door Rack Painter.


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## cocomonkeynuts

finishesbykevyn said:


> Haha. Fair enough. They also don't mention Stix primer, but my rep supports that. Although it does nothing for tannin bleed, but Sticks better than any of them IMO.
> I'm thinking 1 coat of BIN and then a coat of Stix would be a good system..
> 
> Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk



stix is also interesting in that it can be top coated with pretty much anything including solvent based lacquers, epoxy and urethanes.


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## Zoomer

cocomonkeynuts said:


> finishesbykevyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Haha. Fair enough. They also don't mention Stix primer, but my rep supports that. Although it does nothing for tannin bleed, but Sticks better than any of them IMO.
> I'm thinking 1 coat of BIN and then a coat of Stix would be a good system..
> 
> Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> stix is also interesting in that it can be top coated with pretty much anything including solvent based lacquers, epoxy and urethanes.
Click to expand...

why not just two coats of Bin


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## cocomonkeynuts

Zoomer said:


> why not just two coats of Bin


I don't care what you use. If it works for you then go for it


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