# Sherwin Williams new Paint Emerald



## alertchief

Has anyone had the opportunity to use any of this stuff yet? Had coffee with the local district manager yesterday and he is pretty hyped about this new paint which is supposed to be a step up from interior Duration?


----------



## wills fresh coat

looks like another pricing thread........


----------



## wills fresh coat

ok i will start, "i bet the price is going to be higher then giraffe nuts"


----------



## alertchief

This is not intended to be another SW pricing thread. Just looking to see if anyone has used any early product . If you want to discuss prices I am sure it won't be hard to find a thread or two .


----------



## wills fresh coat

alertchief said:


> This is not intended to be another SW pricing thread. Just looking to see if anyone has used any early product . If you want to discuss prices I am sure it won't be hard to find a thread or two .


try it and get back to us, when is it comin out?


----------



## alertchief

Rumor has it late march. I believe it can only be tinted with their new zero voc color ants which hopefully will increase the viscosity especially in dark colors.


----------



## Northwest_painter

No I have not seen it yet looking forward to to trying it out.


----------



## ewingpainting.net

I heard SW is trying to move everything to 0 VOC, I just saw Solo is now Zero. let us know how it handles. Prob with exteriors or any paint is time is the test, so you can give a performance review.


----------



## alertchief

I am very curious to compare my Aura usage to a few gallons of this product.


----------



## matt19422

Promar 400 Zero is in my local store, but I have not demoed it yet...


----------



## Builtmany

The only way I would use it is if my salesman demos a gal for n/c. I don't plan on paying $70 per gallon unless it applies itself and requires no labor. IMO my customers just will not pay for much over SuperPaint of which is expensive enough these days.


----------



## Zoomer

Emerald. Okay so what is the retail price point? 70?. It better apply itself for that price. In this economy how in the world can a gallon of paint be successful at such a high price.


----------



## Builtmany

Right around $70 USD retail is what I was told by me salesman.


----------



## TJ Paint

alertchief said:


> is supposed to be a step up from interior Duration?


what isn't?


----------



## TJ Paint

wills fresh coat said:


> try it and get back to us, when is it comin out?


spray it through a proshot and let us know what you think :thumbup:


----------



## A+HomeWork

I really like SW and many of their products, but prices are higher.

One thing this will do is make my quotes for Duration or PM200 look better.

There are a few customers who will pick it BECAUSE it is so high.

I look forward to trying it though.


----------



## jack pauhl

Zoomer said:


> Emerald. Okay so what is the retail price point? 70?. It better apply itself for that price. In this economy how in the world can a gallon of paint be successful at such a high price.


The product is setup to fail at the gate.


----------



## Builtmany

jack pauhl said:


> The product is setup to fail at the gate.


I have to agree there. Let's see how far out of the gate it even gets.


----------



## jack pauhl

Builtmany said:


> I have to agree there. Let's see how far out of the gate it even gets.


It seems the trend of price increase threads is speaking volumes and to pump out a product in the $70 range is suicide when you can easily produce hand brushed durable finishes like this for under $30


----------



## robladd

jack pauhl said:


> It seems the trend of price increase threads is speaking volumes and to pump out a product in the $70 range is suicide when you can easily produce hand brushed durable finishes like this for under $30
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jackpauhl/6870751929/


Come on Jack. That's AAA with a 312


----------



## Andyman

$70... Not interested. I don't care how great it is. It's wall color.


----------



## mudbone

Andyman said:


> $70... Not interested. I don't care how great it is. It's wall color.


 Diddo!


----------



## prototype66

We have a pro show coming up and my rep said there is a lot of new product coming out here in the very near future. I for one do like SW and look forward to see what they have to offer. Ben Moore has always been more pricy for me no matter what.
Lets see what they quote me on all the new stuff.


----------



## A+HomeWork

jack pauhl said:


> It seems the trend of price increase threads is speaking volumes and to pump out a product in the $70 range is suicide when you can easily produce hand brushed durable finishes like this for under $30


Out with it Jack! Which BEHR product is this?


----------



## Zoomer

Suicide? I agree Jack. But wait at another 8% increase coming soon that will make it 76 rounded up. Now who doesnt want to pay 150 in paint cost for walls of a small bedroom?


----------



## A+HomeWork

Zoomer said:


> Suicide? I agree Jack. But wait at another 8% increase coming soon that will make it 76 rounded up. Now who doesnt want to pay 150 in paint cost for walls of a small bedroom?


That really kills it for the $99 per room guys, huh?

I really like SW as I said before, but my bigger jobs' bids are looking rough with such high materials prices. 
Back when Cashmere came out, my manager demo-ed me 16 gallons of it. That was a great job.
Ya think they'll give that much in Emerald? :whistling2:


----------



## Builtmany

jack pauhl said:


> It seems the trend of price increase threads is speaking volumes and to pump out a product in the $70 range is suicide when you can easily produce hand brushed durable finishes like this for under $30


And that finish is? Behr Premium Plus Ultra?????????


----------



## jack pauhl

Builtmany said:


> And that finish is? Behr Premium Plus Ultra?????????


Yes ULTRA, I've been using it for years. This is the under $20 version. I am unable to see any difference at all between the two finishes, they look identical. The Photo Set has a bunch of these pics. My point is a $70 product better do something unique.


----------



## jack pauhl

It's $99 per room friendly.


----------



## A+HomeWork

*If not behr*

Jack, 

Does Lowes have something comparable? The nearest hd is 80 miles.


----------



## jack pauhl

A+HomeWork said:


> Jack,
> 
> Does Lowes have something comparable? The nearest hd is 80 miles.


No. I've found nothing comparable to date.


----------



## Builtmany

jack pauhl said:


> Yes ULTRA, I've been using it for years. This is the under $20 version. I am unable to see any difference at all between the two finishes, they look identical. The Photo Set has a bunch of these pics. My point is a $70 product better do something unique.


What sheen? Semi or gloss?


----------



## wills fresh coat

it amazes me that pro painters keep pissin away $ that they could either put in thier pockets or save the customer a few bucks.......oh thats right we gotta keep on feeding the monster


----------



## Builtmany

wills fresh coat said:


> we gotta keep on feeding the monster


I'm done feeding that monster:notworthy:


----------



## jack pauhl

Builtmany said:


> What sheen? Semi or gloss?


Semi gloss on both products.


----------



## DeanV

Thinned? Untinned? Over primer, semi or factory mdf? Etc


----------



## jack pauhl

DeanV said:


> Thinned? Untinned? Over primer, semi or factory mdf? Etc


No thinning because I was doing these tests against other products. I had to keep stock for stock. I do however take advantage of the 8oz per gal reduction when necessary on jobs. Both products require occasional stirring and I recommend making a point to do it.

This was new MDF cut to 12" samples. I applied an acrylic primer by brush over the MDF without sanding the MDF. I gave the primer a light sanding, nothing special, you could even skip it, its not important. Then I brushed one coat on each sample. Let dry, sand with 400 mesh abranet (320 works too) and brushed a 2nd coat. Standard procedure stuff for fine finishing. Zinsser CoverStain Oil or Zinsser Odorless produces nicer results. The goal is to apply sound foundation for 1st coat film retention then make sure that 1st coat is smooth before applying 2nd coat.

Here is the 1st coat of paint sanded.


----------



## DeanV

Based on the fairly obvious sanded out brush marks in coat one, I am surprised at the difference in coat 2.


----------



## jack pauhl

DeanV said:


> Based on the fairly obvious sanded out brush marks in coat one, I am surprised at the difference in coat 2.


2nd coat film has no place to go so it levels itself on the surface. Funny tho... some of my brushed work looks nicer than some of my spray work but the system was designed to match airless FF work.


----------



## DeanV

Do you get the exact same appearance on a large scale brushing the same product on vertical surfaces including door casings and trim, paneled mdf doors, etc? Horizontal samples always look a better for me since gravity and heavier application are friendly this way, instead of the enemy.


----------



## jack pauhl

Dean, the primer coat is not necessary. I re-prime MDF primarily so I can fill nail holes flush with putty over MDF. This photo is 2 coats of the $20 stuff direct over MDF but sanded between coats. *May require more sanding depending on absorbtion rate of MDF surface primer. Re-priming MDF removes some of the mystery/variables.


----------



## jack pauhl

DeanV said:


> Do you get the exact same appearance on a large scale brushing the same product on vertical surfaces including door casings and trim, paneled mdf doors, etc? Horizontal samples always look a better for me since gravity and heavier application are friendly this way, instead of the enemy.


Yes, its all the same. The working time and leveling of both products is way up there on the scales. But like ADVANCE, both can go evil on you when you turn your back but I will say, ADVANCE is extreme and both BEHR products have an acceptable tolerance for sag retention. ADVANCE needs millage for coverage in comparison where Premi-Plus and ULTRA can cover in super thin coats like 314, even thinner than 314.


----------



## Zoomer

In your opinion behr premium and ultra have more open time and less runs than bm advance? Correct Jack?


----------



## mblosik

Heard about Emerald when they took me to lunch the other day. excited to try some in march/april.

tried the Pro Mar 200 zero voc eg-shel. covered great with a red over yellow in 2 coats.:thumbsup:


----------



## lmvp17

jack pauhl said:


> It seems the trend of price increase threads is speaking volumes and to pump out a product in the $70 range is suicide when you can easily produce hand brushed durable finishes like this for under $30


You really like Behr for trims?? Which one. I'll try it out.


----------



## jack pauhl

Zoomer said:


> In your opinion behr premium and ultra have more open time and less runs than bm advance? Correct Jack?


Maybe I should have said that different... glad you brought it up. I found I had more working time to perform unobtrusive surgery with da BEHR's vs ADVANCE. Meaning about 10 mins after initial application I was able to brush in and out of and not have it seen in the dried finish. Better with Premium Plus over ULTRA at 70/40RH.

The sag resistance of ADVANCE is poor IMO and to avoid it requires all the stars to be aligned correctly. Have you seen the TDS on ADVANCE? Its very specific and I find it to be valid. What BM considers "Severe Conditions" I consider to be unobtainable without bringing in our own weather system. That's a variable I rather not deal with because I cant babysit finishes.


----------



## sendit6

higher then giraffe nuts

that's funny.


----------



## jack pauhl

lmvp17 said:


> You really like Behr for trims?? Which one. I'll try it out.


For application and appearance, you wont see or "feel" any difference. They both feel like oils. If anything, Premi-Plus is a bit easier to apply, has more glide and faster leveling than ULTRA but both level almost instantly. I've been using ULTRA for 6 years. This is the first I spoke about it in any detail recently. It came to light because of the new formulation of Premium Plus last month and how incredibly similar I found it to be to ULTRA. In fact, I swore they were the same products but deeper testing proved otherwise.


----------



## lmvp17

jack pauhl said:


> For application and appearance, you wont see or "feel" any difference. They both feel like oils. If anything, Premi-Plus is a bit easier to apply, has more glide and faster leveling than ULTRA but both level almost instantly. I've been using ULTRA for 6 years. This is the first I spoke about it in any detail recently. It came to light because of the new formulation of Premium Plus last month and how incredibly similar I found it to be to ULTRA. In fact, I swore they were the same products but deeper testing proved otherwise.


I still haven't found a quality GO TO trim paint. It either doesn't level well enough, too slow to apply, or just too expensive. Sounds like you've found a winner Jack. I'll give it a shot.


----------



## Wolfgang

I'm glad this hasn't turned into a SW pricing thread.

When these new products come out, particularly when they have rather hefty price tags, it might be a good time to research other products. Offer your customer a couple alternatives. How many people can walk in a house and look at the walls and say: "By golly - that's $70 a gallon paint on the walls!", without being told? Do you really think the walls know a difference?

It's like a while back a few us were having a conversation in a thread and I mentioned about going to Bass Pro Shops and seeing a couple $600 fishing reels. Do the fish know the difference? Is it going to catch you more fish?

You can probably buy and use Emerald and still be profitable, but you,re going to have to market it differently. I'm still a firm believer that there's a little more to selling a job than just e-mailing a price.


----------



## vermontpainter

Wolfgang said:


> I'm glad this hasn't turned into a SW pricing thread.


Very true. I would much rather read about Jack's love of Behr than the world's hatred of SW price increases. 

Sounds funny to say, but looks like the price of poker might be going down.


----------



## wills fresh coat

Wolfgang said:


> I'm glad this hasn't turned into a SW pricing thread.
> 
> When these new products come out, particularly when they have rather hefty price tags, it might be a good time to research other products. Offer your customer a couple alternatives. How many people can walk in a house and look at the walls and say: "By golly - that's $70 a gallon paint on the walls!", without being told? Do you really think the walls know a difference?
> 
> It's like a while back a few us were having a conversation in a thread and I mentioned about going to Bass Pro Shops and seeing a couple $600 fishing reels. Do the fish know the difference? Is it going to catch you more fish?
> 
> You can probably buy and use Emerald and still be profitable, but you,re going to have to market it differently. I'm still a firm believer that there's a little more to selling a job than just e-mailing a price.


thats my point also, i think alot of people on pt think just that if a manufacture comes out with a new line it renders the line that they have been using,useless. paint is not electronics guys,it last alot longer. i have been doin this for a long time and i have never seen a interior paint fail because of price. all paints will fail, regardless of price if the surface is not preped properly


----------



## alertchief

It almost seems to me that SW should remake Duration before embarking on an even more expensive paint. Duration is on the price point with BM Aura yet it trails in many factors such as coverage, build and finish appearance. How am I to believe I should try and sell the homeowner more expensive paint when Duration never really lived up to its hype at least on the interior version.


----------



## A+HomeWork

wills fresh coat said:


> thats my point also, i think alot of people on pt think just that if a manufacture comes out with a new line it renders the line that they have been using,useless. paint is not electronics guys,it last alot longer. i have been doin this for a long time and i have never seen a interior paint fail because of price. all paints will fail, regardless of price if the surface is not preped properly


Heck, I used A-100 on a house the other day!


----------



## Tonyg

Sounds like SW's competing against Aura. So, if I am using a 'super premium' product like Aura now, or even looking to use one, I am going to try Emerald over a product that has been out for several years? Sounds like SW is finally trying to catch up, or is that keep up, and after the garbage that they labeled as Harmony, their big Zero, and the long standing flaws with Duratiion, I should go right out and buy the latest and greatest at the same price of an established product?

If they are coming in at the same price point of Aura then Emerald better be way better or way cheaper before I switch.


----------



## wills fresh coat

alertchief said:


> It almost seems to me that SW should remake Duration before embarking on an even more expensive paint. Duration is on the price point with BM Aura yet it trails in many factors such as coverage, build and finish appearance. How am I to believe I should try and sell the homeowner more expensive paint when Duration never really lived up to its hype at least on the interior version.


or just call it pm 200 and lower the price about $29 a gal


----------



## matt19422

alertchief said:


> It almost seems to me that SW should remake Duration before embarking on an even more expensive paint. Duration is on the price point with BM Aura yet it trails in many factors such as coverage, build and finish appearance. How am I to believe I should try and sell the homeowner more expensive paint when Duration never really lived up to its hype at least on the interior version.


I agree,

Aura Matte works in place of Duration Matte and does not leave the gritty feel & look you get from duration matte interior.


----------



## A+HomeWork

matt19422 said:


> I agree,
> 
> Aura Matte works in place of Duration Matte and does not leave the gritty feel & look you get from duration matte interior.


Not sure about the gritty thing. Duration Matte is good, though expensive.


----------



## alertchief

matt19422 said:


> I agree,
> 
> Aura Matte works in place of Duration Matte and does not leave the gritty feel & look you get from duration matte interior.



Very well said. I have Duration Matte on my bedroom accent wall and you can't brush your hand over it without leaving a skin mark on the wall. Its horrible. I also have Aura Matte on another wall and its 3 or so degrees of sheen feels like a very tight paint film and does not mar with incidental contact. Duration Low sheen...dont even get me started. Take a gander down the range walls in a sherwin store and see the lap lines.


----------



## Zoomer

I hope it fails. Then sw can concentrate on making 200,superpaint, and duration, better paints.


----------



## jack pauhl

Zoomer said:


> I hope it fails. Then sw can concentrate on making 200,superpaint, and duration, better paints.


The focus BEHR put on two products is what has my attention. Look at how many products SW has for general house painting for example, constantly pumping out something new and now Emerald. I think they are trying to create products for each type of surface you can possibly come across and I am trying to narrow my products and systems into one for the majority of what I get myself into. 

SW needs a product to make them standout but it's not going to happen with a $70 product. Not today.


----------



## ltd

i don't see the point in all this over priced paint:no: .i tell my clients i'm going to use a top quality paint .and i do, sherwin williams super paint:yes:.i use this high end low end and everything in between and never a problem.ok for some of the deep colors i can see it ,but for day in day out, no ill put that my money in my pocket .maybe its just me but my clients eyes glaze over when i talk about paint. they would not know or they could care less about emerald ,aura,what ever.


----------



## MDServices

Asked about it last week. Not in my area yet. Hoping to try it out soon and see how it compares to the mighty Aura


----------



## Andyman

Emerald is said to not burnish like other paints do when washed. I haven't found ANY paint that won't...

$70/gallon... now they are competing with ArmorSeal. Hummmmm. 

I would expect this Emerald to hold up to jet fuel and fork lift traffic at it's price point.


----------



## mudbone

A+HomeWork said:


> Jack,
> 
> Does Lowes have something comparable? The nearest hd is 80 miles.


Nothing compares to Behr!:notworthy:


----------



## mudbone

Builtmany said:


> I'm done feeding that monster:notworthy:


 Feed the Behrs!


----------



## optimal

Plus one on behr premium. Finished some high gloss trim and crown. Glass!


----------



## DeanV

mudbone said:


> nothing compares to behr!:notworthy:





mudbone said:


> feed the behrs!




we are not going back to this, understood?


----------



## ReNt A PaInTeR

optimal said:


> Plus one on behr premium. Finished some high gloss trim and crown. Glass!


Behry Good :thumbup:


----------



## Wolfgang

When I bought and renovated my house I did all my interior trim in Behr Exterior Semi-Gloss Ultra White. At the time I sprayed it, but after years of 4 large dogs and general wear and tear, there are many areas that have been re-done by brush with an 8% reduction. I may be old, but I can't see the difference, and neither can others.


----------



## vermontpainter

*Public Service Reminder*

Its good to stick our heads out of the pt and paint contracting bubble once in a while. Paint manufacturers are pretty similar to manufacturers of just about everything else in my world from the gas in my truck to the options for bindings on my snowboard come with ramifications in either limited options and high cost, or too many options, some of which are high cost. 

Materials and equipment for work are not that much different in their need to be assessed for value, whatever that may mean to you and your customers. 

It's really just a matter of expectation. Variety and multitude of options can actually be helpful, and not just as luxury items. It is important to look across the lines and price ranges and determine what level of quality and performance best fits your style. 

My name is Scott, and I support this message.


----------



## DeanV

I really only play with reducing materials for hvlp,spraying, maybe that is an oversight on my part.


----------



## vermontpainter

DeanV said:


> I really only play with reducing materials for hvlp,spraying, maybe that is an oversight on my part.



Me too. And no. Slicking up is one thing, reducing is very much another. We are not chemists.


----------



## StripandCaulk

Does anyone have any information on what sheens Emerald will be available in?


----------



## jack pauhl

vermontpainter said:


> ..... It is important to look across the lines and price ranges and determine what level of quality and performance best fits your style....


Level of quality is measured by the MPI. I think thats all we have right? If ULTRA, AURA, EMERALD all sit on the same # list as meeting the MPI's specs then I am cool with selling those ratings. Until products are moved into another rating system above MPI's then I have nothing to backup the level of quality. I think its fair to say products listed on MPI with the highest rating are likely to be better than those not on the list. (or under review).

There may be a situation in my lifetime where I may need a product with quality beyond the MPI ratings. How am I going to figure out which one fits that niche scenario?


----------



## vermontpainter

jack pauhl said:


> Level of quality is measured by the MPI. I think thats all we have right? If ULTRA, AURA, EMERALD all sit on the same # list as meeting the MPI's specs then I am cool with selling those ratings. Until products are moved into another rating system above MPI's then I have nothing to backup the level of quality. I think its fair to say products listed on MPI with the highest rating are likely to be better than those not on the list. (or under review).
> 
> There may be a situation in my lifetime where I may need a product with quality beyond the MPI ratings. How am I going to figure out which one fits that niche scenario?


Try lots of options, use what works best for your situation, and don't be disappointed if one size doesnt fit all. 

MPI doesnt mean that much to me. I listen to my own crew of painters more than any other source.


----------



## dvab

*Mpi*

MPI doesn't set standards for performance, they define a standard based on their assessment of how many paints can meet it. Keep in mind that their revenue stream depends on paint manufacturers paying them a fee every year to have their products included in a given category (it must pass the relevant standards for that category), so they are not going to set the bar at a level that only one or no manufacturer can pass (there's no revenue stream there), and in the process potentially alienate existing customers that don't have a product that meets that standard. Yes there are many categories with only one product but that is more a function of manufacturer's apathy toward that category - why pay to get approval if the size of the category doesn't warrant testing. The good news is that as industry raises the bar, so too does MPI.

All that said, they do indeed provide some level of affirmation about relative performance, but it's a mistake to assume that the products in a given level are equal. Yes they all meet the minimum standard but one might still offer twice the "performance" of the next.


----------



## jack pauhl

dvab said:


> ....All that said, they do indeed provide some level of affirmation about relative performance, but it's a mistake to assume that the products in a given level are equal. Yes they all meet the minimum standard but one might still offer twice the "performance" of the next.


Exactly. Without MPI, we have no rating at all. Twice the "performance" is an unknown area dependent on the end-users opinion. 

If an MPI test if performed at 3000 scrubs and all three products pass it, that does provide insight into durability. Going beyond 3000 is not really my customer base but there may be a time I need something beyond 3000 and I won't know how to determine which product best fits because those Amazon ratings... well you know... a color or smell or availability can lead to product popularity.


----------



## Workaholic

DeanV said:


> we are not going back to this, understood?


I was just clicking to move some stuff to the trash and then read this. :notworthy:



vermontpainter said:


> We are not chemists.


Good point. 




It will be interesting to see how Emerald performs, for the money I will probably stick to Aura for Exteriors. 

A 50 or 70 dollar interior paint is not something I try and sell anyways but exteriors need a solid protection and if this stuff is good I will read it here or a few other selective places.


----------



## Westview

I've had great luck with SW super paint. Since I started using super paint, I've never had any coverage issues. One issue I do have with it is the smell. After working all day with super paint, it can give you a bit of a headache. Tried semi gloss Behr premium plus ultra for the first time on my last job. I mixed in a little water and floetrol with it. The trim looked like it was sprayed. Behr premium plus ultra does have a smell, but for some reason, I like the smell.


----------



## RaleighPainter

DeanV said:


> I really only play with reducing materials for hvlp,spraying, maybe that is an oversight on my part.


second that


----------



## lmvp17

jack pauhl said:


> For application and appearance, you wont see or "feel" any difference. They both feel like oils. If anything, Premi-Plus is a bit easier to apply, has more glide and faster leveling than ULTRA but both level almost instantly. I've been using ULTRA for 6 years. This is the first I spoke about it in any detail recently. It came to light because of the new formulation of Premium Plus last month and how incredibly similar I found it to be to ULTRA. In fact, I swore they were the same products but deeper testing proved otherwise.


Just finished a crown and baseboard job that was bare wood, primed with CoverMax and finished two coats using Behr Premium Plus semi-g stock white. Here's what I thought.
The bad: THICK. I loaded up my brush but didn't get very far. A bit slow to work with. And price. I wasn't expecting to pay $40/gallon (CDN) for HD trim paint. Can you get better pricing from HD???

The good: Second coat is solid but I could see why Jack still uses a good primer over MDF. And it does look and feel like an oil. Good drying time. Great finish overall.

Overall: I'll add a conditioner next time to see how it works but I will use it again. And price accordingly. I like the finish though. I find it comparable to SW All Purpose Enamel although I think the Behr settles a bit smoother.


----------



## TJ Paint

Westview said:


> Behr premium plus ultra does have a smell, but for some reason, I like the smell.


That's Behr for ya!:thumbsup:


----------



## mudbone

A+HomeWork said:


> Heck, I used A-100 on a house the other day!


 Interior?:whistling2:


----------



## A+HomeWork

mudbone said:


> Interior?:whistling2:


HA! No, exterior. The HO already had some and I was matching a new section, so I bought another gallon of A-100 to be sure.


----------



## Masterpiece

I used A-100 exterior on a property complex exterior since the 30 buildings had been painted 3-4 years prior with it. Went down to a SW I prefer and had a gallon made up, went back and touched up some exterior repairs I performed and it matched perfectly lol. It also covered nicely.

I agree with the earlier statement that newer lines of paint don't automatically render earlier paint lines useless or incompetent, no more than a new model year car mean your 5 or 10 year old car is now useless...


----------



## Builtmany

Guy at SW told me today that when Emerald was demoed to him they ran out of drywall to roll paint onto so they flipped it over and painted the backside of the drywall and had good results with zero primer. I made a face  and said I would like to see that one.


----------



## mudbone

Builtmany said:


> Guy at SW told me today that when Emerald was demoed to him they ran out of drywall to roll paint onto so they flipped it over and painted the backside of the drywall and had good results with zero primer. I made a face  and said I would like to see that one.


 Sounds like a great high hiding paint to me.:whistling2:


----------



## StripandCaulk

Builtmany said:


> Guy at SW told me today that when Emerald was demoed to him they ran out of drywall to roll paint onto so they flipped it over and painted the backside of the drywall and had good results with zero primer. I made a face  and said I would like to see that one.


one thing all sherwin stores have in common is they all preach their products like god. asked the sherwin store i go to today about it and he just told me its going to be the "best". the more you spend on a gallon there the "better" it is...:boat:


----------



## wills fresh coat

StripandCaulk said:


> one thing all sherwin stores have in common is they all preach their products like god. asked the sherwin store i go to today about it and he just told me its going to be the "best". the more you spend on a gallon there the "better" it is...:boat:


There are quite a few on pt that believe that and they think ben moore is great to, just because it cost so much


----------



## Northwest_painter

StripandCaulk said:


> one thing all sherwin stores have in common is they all preach their products like god. asked the sherwin store i go to today about it and he just told me its going to be the "best". the more you spend on a gallon there the "better" it is...:boat:


Well to a point that is true how much stuff is in there Pigments and resins will affect the quality of the paint and as prices for raw goods that make up that stuff keep going up it will cost you. But there is a tipping point at which the market will no longer pay for it. I seen it happen with other things. The market will level it out.


----------



## Builtmany

StripandCaulk said:


> one thing all sherwin stores have in common is they all preach their products like god. asked the sherwin store i go to today about it and he just told me its going to be the "best". the more you spend on a gallon there the "better" it is...:boat:


Same bs I heard. "best" ever.


----------



## TJ Paint

Builtmany said:


> Same bs I heard. "best" ever.


When you hear them say "best ever" , just make sure you got the vasoline with.


----------



## StripandCaulk

TJ Paint said:


> When you hear them say "best ever" , just make sure you got the vasoline with.


They give me ky jelly, vasoline doesnt cost as much:notworthy:


----------



## Builtmany

StripandCaulk said:


> They give me ky jelly, vasoline doesnt cost as much:notworthy:


Correct. Lets see at $70 per gal and 4 price increases per year that's a $100 gallon by 2013. Use whatever you like LOL


----------



## StripandCaulk

Builtmany said:


> Correct. Lets see at $70 per gal and 4 price increases per year that's a $100 gallon by 2013. Use whatever you like LOL


In my area we sum up SW like this: free t-shirts = ok quality. hot interior desinger= finer quality. hot interior design in just the t-shirt= finest quality. Wet-T shirt contest= exclusive finest quality.

sorry what i meant to say was A-100, superpaint, resilence, duration..but we convince ourselves that there is more to gain with each price bracket.


----------



## lmvp17

StripandCaulk said:


> In my area we sum up SW like this: free t-shirts = ok quality. hot interior desinger= finer quality. hot interior design in just the t-shirt= finest quality. Wet-T shirt contest= exclusive finest quality.
> 
> sorry what i meant to say was A-100, superpaint, resilence, duration..but we convince ourselves that there is more to gain with each price bracket.


Hmmm.. where does Promar200 fit in there?


----------



## NCPaint1

lmvp17 said:


> Hmmm.. where does Promar200 fit in there?


Arch standing at the counter pouring you a coffee in tighty whiteys.


----------



## mudbone

Isn't Emerald a green? Color of money!:whistling2:


----------



## A+HomeWork

I had the privilege of getting to visit an old friend of mine in Dallas while attending a conference (unrelated to painting).
He is fairly high-up with SW in that region and he agrees totally that there are too many lines and names and that it would be easier for everyone if there were fewer lines with more attention paid to each.
Furthermore, he and others have appealed to even higher higher-ups and there's no word as to whether any marketing changes will ever come.


----------



## TJ Paint

mudbone said:


> Isn't Emerald a green? Color of money!:whistling2:


and smells like a behr


----------



## RockHandJohn

I remember when Duration came out. Painted the whole exterior of my house with it (vinyl siding with the special colors safe for that substrate) and not even 3 years later it warped some of the siding and started to chalk out on the bottom. So I went and bought a gallon for touch up and the sheen didn't match. My good friend and ex-boss told me it was due to a change in the formulation that made it skin over quicker to protect from sudden rain. All in all was not very happy and was extremely glad I got it during a special employee sale that was happening. Heard recently how expensive it has gotten, so to relate to the topic I would be very cautious to get hooked on a product with a price point so high in its introduction no matter how well it performs. It is just a matter of time before your rep breaks the bad news to you of another price hike and you end up wishing you could still get it for what you originally puckered up to agreeing to pay in the first place.


----------



## finaltouch0

Builtmany said:


> The only way I would use it is if my salesman demos a gal for n/c. I don't plan on paying $70 per gallon unless it applies itself and requires no labor. IMO my customers just will not pay for much over SuperPaint of which is expensive enough these days.


$70?!?! Holy smokes! I wonder what your superpaint price is? retail at $63? You guys must live in a rich area. My price for superpaint is only $31/gal.


----------



## Builtmany

finaltouch0 said:


> $70?!?! Holy smokes! I wonder what your superpaint price is? retail at $63? You guys must live in a rich area. My price for superpaint is only $31/gal.


Just bought Superpaint last week and paid $27. 

I was told retail for the Emerald is around $70 and don't expect my price to be much less as I don't plan on using it much.


----------



## TNpainter

Has anybody actually tried Emerald curious. If my customers want to pay the extra ill apply it but.........


----------



## Dunbar Painting

TNpainter said:


> Has anybody actually tried Emerald curious. If my customers want to pay the extra ill apply it but.........


It is not out yet


----------



## ttd

matt19422 said:


> Promar 400 Zero is in my local store, but I have not demoed it yet...


Used it a couple of weeks ago. No odor of course, but flashes bad when areas are brushed out. What you would expect from 400.


----------



## riverdawg1

matt19422 said:


> Promar 400 Zero is in my local store, but I have not demoed it yet...


 i got a couple gallons of 400 flat for a ceiling last week and noticed it was zero voc. couldn't really tell a difference on the ceiling


----------



## Finn

Aye, but was their a difference in the price? An extra $8 per gal here. Also I bought 15gal of superpaint SW in 3 x fivers around $540.00 plus we had to get another one , this was for a one coat repaint on a ranch home with 3 bedrooms, ate up my complete paint budget for the project. What's the take on Pratt and Lambert over here ??? My Customers won't pay that type of doagh for superpaint all the time!


----------



## StripandCaulk

Finn said:


> Aye, but was their a difference in the price? An extra $8 per gal here. Also I bought 15gal of superpaint SW in 3 x fivers around $540.00 plus we had to get another one , this was for a one coat repaint on a ranch home with 3 bedrooms, ate up my complete paint budget for the project. What's the take on Pratt and Lambert over here ??? My Customers won't pay that type of doagh for superpaint all the time!


15 gal for a ranch..one coat repaint. must have been a pretty big ranch for a 3 bedroom.


----------



## Finn

StripandCaulk said:


> 15 gal for a ranch..one coat repaint. must have been a pretty big ranch for a 3 bedroom.


We sprayed the whole thing, you may or may not know, I'm new to spraying mate, my foreman tells me there is more product used during spraying. I'm a bit baffled myself if it was brush and roller I reckon 10gal max that's with 2 coats?


----------



## DanielMDollaPainting

Finn said:


> Aye, but was their a difference in the price? An extra $8 per gal here. Also I bought 15gal of superpaint SW in 3 x fivers around $540.00 plus we had to get another one , this was for a one coat repaint on a ranch home with 3 bedrooms, ate up my complete paint budget for the project. What's the take on Pratt and Lambert over here ??? My Customers won't pay that type of doagh for superpaint all the time!


 My manager lowered my price on 400 since it went zero voc to 20.59 a gal. I mixed the zero voc and originzal 400 together on a celing job. Couldn't notice a difference. The zero voc seeems thicker.


----------



## StripandCaulk

Finn said:


> We sprayed the whole thing, you may or may not know, I'm new to spraying mate, my foreman tells me there is more product used during spraying. I'm a bit baffled myself if it was brush and roller I reckon 10gal max that's with 2 coats?


Spraying will burn through more product, Ive sprayed and backbrushed ranch style houses that were 2500 square feet on 7 gallons one coat. 15 would be one big as! ranch.


----------



## ewingpainting.net

well the 70 buck range was a wrong guestimate. gee whiz people. 

anyway gave the sample board on the emerald display today a scratch test. oppsie it came off pretty easily. now its got me scratching my head.


----------



## Ole34

Wolfgang said:


> I'm glad this hasn't turned into a SW pricing thread.
> 
> When these new products come out, particularly when they have rather hefty price tags, it might be a good time to research other products. Offer your customer a couple alternatives. How many people can walk in a house and look at the walls and say: "By golly - that's $70 a gallon paint on the walls!", without being told? Do you really think the walls know a difference?
> 
> .



I've been saying that for years An it's not
Like people actually wash their walls down anymore so just use a good solid wall paint an spend the money where it counts on trim an ceiling paint because those are 2 areas that can make or break a job


----------



## NCPaint1

Ole34 said:


> I've been saying that for years An it's not
> Like people actually wash their walls down anymore so just use a good solid wall paint an spend the money where it counts on trim an ceiling paint because those are 2 areas that can make or break a job


True. Although having a 3yr old I find myself touching up over washing. Its just easier. Once the walls get nasty, I can bust out a $1 hot dog roller and go to town. So is the more expensive paint better? If it touches up,then in my book yes. Aura Matte touches up great.


----------



## Ole34

NCPaint1 said:


> True. Although having a 3yr old I find myself touching up over washing. Its just easier. Once the walls get nasty, I can bust out a $1 hot dog roller and go to town. So is the more expensive paint better? If it touches up,then in my book yes. Aura Matte touches up great.


I make exceptions when need be i.e kids dogs but for the most part the walls get a solid paint an nothing more........ I try an stick with as few products as I can so there's no surprises


----------



## NCPaint1

Ole34 said:


> I make exceptions when need be i.e kids dogs but for the most part the walls get a solid paint an nothing more........ I try an stick with as few products as I can so there's no surprises


Exactly, but touching up has been my sales pitch. I hate washing walls, never works well. Sometimes it even looks worse when you're done.


----------



## BrushJockey

Or- a paint that doesn't tend to mar or collect dirt to begin with.
I see that as one of Aura's selling points- it will not scuff or get dirty easily because it is such a tight finish.
Why I just don't use SW in any form.

I just did a little t-up on a screen insert for a neighbor using Superpaint semi exterior. 
In my basement it was tacky for 3 days, still was a bit when i put it up today- 
Like a glue that never dries.


----------



## TJ Paint

Superpaint isn't that super...

Sent from my MB508 using Paint Talk


----------



## icecold

I used it in 2 exteriors already, and I get tell ya, it lays out better them Aura, even on the hot summer days.The price, I think that if you have a contractor account, its about the same price of Aura.


----------



## mpminter

My local store just demoed me a gallon of Emerald exterior flat and I gotta say, I was impressed. I was brushing out trim and some gutters with it and I was blown away watching this stuff level out. I brushed out a basement window with it and you would have sworn it was sprayed! If they get my price down to $50-$55/gallon I'll consider switching, otherwise I'll just stick with Duration. Right now they're doing a promotional where I can get the exterior flat for $41/gal. I'm upgrading my next couple jobs so I can get a better feel for it on a variety of substrates.


----------



## Finn

I picked up a Gallon of interior and a gallon of exterior today for $37.00 each, there is a 40% sale on at SW that ends tomorrow Monday!


----------



## TJ Paint

Is your contractors discount valid or added to the general 40% discount?


----------



## mpminter

In my experience the 40% comes off of retail, not contractor pricing. I've managed to work my pricing on some of my favorite products down to the point where sometimes the 40% doesn't really save me that much.


----------



## StripandCaulk

What MP said, although SW doesnt do their discounts like BM. They do it by product. If you go in and pick up a product you dont use alot, you are not going to get the same discount as you would one you do all the time. The sales and promotions the run come off retail in my expierences as well.


----------



## arjun90

Discounts are not applicable to contractor's pricing.


----------



## straight_lines

icecold said:


> I used it in 2 exteriors already, and I get tell ya, it lays out better them Aura, even on the hot summer days.The price, I think that if you have a contractor account, its about the same price of Aura.


What is the spread rate in comparison to Aura? That will be what determines if it is the same price as Aura.


----------



## kdpaint

If its anything like Duration (not great) Aura wins.


----------



## straight_lines

I don't know about the exterior, but the interior is about the same as Duration. 350 sq a gallon.


----------



## kdpaint

I should have specified exterior for both, Aura seems to go farther.


----------



## straight_lines

Yea I have seen Aura's spread rate can go as far as 600 sq per gallon. Tough to beat that.


----------



## TJ Paint

I'm not sure I like what I'm hearing about the ext line...

Everybody saying how great it goes on in direct sun and stuff...

I don't wanna paint in the sun. We've had a great excuse for years to stay on the shady side. I don't want this paint to ruin that whole scheme.


----------



## instacoat

mudbone said:


> Nothing compares to Behr!:notworthy:


Behr is all Home Depot marketing. Both Behr Premium Plus Ultra does not come remotely close to Sherwin-Williams premium paints which includes Superpaint, Duration or Emerald. Behr does not have the wet & dry hide, touch up, coverage or scrub resistance than these SW paints. I've been in the painting business for over 30 years and tried almost every paint company's top brands, but overall SW brings the best value, plus they stand 100% behind their products. The service value they offer, competitors do NOT come close to SW.


----------



## Builtmany

instacoat said:


> Behr is all Home Depot marketing. Both Behr Premium Plus Ultra does not come remotely close to Sherwin-Williams premium paints


Really:whistling2:


----------



## Paradigmzz

straight_lines said:


> Yea I have seen Aura's spread rate can go as far as 600 sq per gallon. Tough to beat that.


Spread rate is indeed greater on emerald over duration. Two identical houses, 20 gallons on one, 16 on the other. Both sprayed, same operator.


----------



## straight_lines

Sweet what was the color?


----------



## Paradigmzz

straight_lines said:


> Sweet what was the color?


Slight color changes, both houses white to beige, Renwick beige on one, universal khaki the other. Emerald is thinner, but has same hide. It's gonna go farther. It even sounds different coming out of the tip. I have a sizable wall next week. I'll report back a coverage rate on interior. I find no need to use emerald for interior at its price point- as the 200 zero voc is my money maker. But I'll check it out with emerald and find out where it's spread rate truly stands. The back of the can doesn't mean a thing.


----------



## mudbone

instacoat said:


> Behr is all Home Depot marketing. Both Behr Premium Plus Ultra does not come remotely close to Sherwin-Williams premium paints which includes Superpaint, Duration or Emerald. Behr does not have the wet & dry hide, touch up, coverage or scrub resistance than these SW paints. I've been in the painting business for over 30 years and tried almost every paint company's top brands, but overall SW brings the best value, plus they stand 100% behind their products. The service value they offer, competitors do NOT come close to SW.


 Whatever!


----------



## icecold

straight_lines said:


> What is the spread rate in comparison to Aura? That will be what determines if it is the same price as Aura.


Its about the same, I got about 350 to 400 Sq, but the best thing about this paint its that even on hot days, 90 and up, my paint brush didn't dried like it does w/ Aura. Here on the Cape I always have to put extender on Aura, I don't have to on the Emerald, and the finish its great.


----------



## icecold

So far, after using Aura for the past 2 summers, Emerald, on exterior, lays down 80% better than Aura, w/ the same finish and hide qualities.


----------



## matt19422

Funny, everyone compares there paint brand or experience to Aura.... wonder why?:whistling2:

Emerald is overpriced Duration.


----------



## mpminter

matt19422 said:


> Emerald is overpriced Duration.


I disagree. I have used a ton of duration the last couple years, and I can tell you that Emerald is a completely different animal.


----------



## Paradigmzz

matt19422 said:


> Funny, everyone compares there paint brand or experience to Aura.... wonder why?:whistling2:
> 
> Emerald is overpriced Duration.


Apparently you have not used emerald. Why don't you try something before you make an assumption. It is nothing like duration.


----------



## GuyWhoKnows

StripandCaulk said:


> one thing all sherwin stores have in common is they all preach their products like god. asked the sherwin store i go to today about it and he just told me its going to be the "best". the more you spend on a gallon there the "better" it is...:boat:


If you went to a SW store and the sales person was not excited and or interested in the products performance would you be more or less likely to buy it. I like when people are excited about the products I buy. I get more interested in it.


----------



## GuyWhoKnows

I have used Aura, Duration, and Emerald. (ALL INTERIOR) Here is what I found.

Aura Int. covers better than Duration Home. Market price for Aura in Boston Area is low mid to high $50's BM Dealers are not allowed to sell for lower than $53 per gallon. compared to Duration in the mid $40's to low $50's

Emerald covers better than both, and not only about coverage, the finish appears nicer, the application is smoother than Aura. When you paint with Aura you have to move quickly or you have a wicked hard time rolling into cut in line. It's sticky. Emerald also prevents/resists water-spotting better than Aura.

Tints with Zero VOC colorants in Every Single Color. You are limited on your color choices with Aura.

The other thing I don't like about Aura is what is the deal with that Extender they suggest you add? They made a "top of the line" paint, but we have to add something to it so it works better? Couldn't they have done that before they launched the product?


----------



## mudbone

mpminter said:


> I disagree. I have used a ton of duration the last couple years, and I can tell you that Emerald is a completely different animal.


 Pretty close to being called a behr!:yes:


----------



## straight_lines

GuyWhoKnows said:


> I have used Aura, Duration, and Emerald. (ALL INTERIOR) Here is what I found.
> 
> Aura Int. covers better than Duration Home. Market price for Aura in Boston Area is low mid to high $50's BM Dealers are not allowed to sell for lower than $53 per gallon. compared to Duration in the mid $40's to low $50's
> 
> Emerald covers better than both, and not only about coverage, the finish appears nicer, the application is smoother than Aura. When you paint with Aura you have to move quickly or you have a wicked hard time rolling into cut in line. It's sticky. Emerald also prevents/resists water-spotting better than Aura.
> 
> Tints with Zero VOC colorants in Every Single Color. You are limited on your color choices with Aura.
> 
> The other thing I don't like about Aura is what is the deal with that Extender they suggest you add? They made a "top of the line" paint, but we have to add something to it so it works better? Couldn't they have done that before they launched the product?


Nothing you just posted except the work ability being better is true. I can tell you have never used interior Aura or you would know to let your cuts completely dry before rolling. :no:


----------



## BrushJockey

Aura limited color choices... can me made into any of BM's 4 fan decks- plus custom matches. 

And It has a learning curve, but knowing how to use it I prefer it to wet cut paints. Great stuff. 

I have yet to find a SW paint that I actually like. I can tolerate many of them...


----------



## madochio

ok show of hands.....how many "spies" are here?????
aura is the top right now, everyone whats to be the king so in order to be the king you have to knock the king off the mountain. 
i have only heard that the pricing is too high for SW cilents, outside of that nothing more


----------



## matt19422

Correct me if I'm wrong: BM uses more pigments/colorants in there paint, so SW cannot duplicate it 100%


----------



## ttd

jack pauhl said:


> It seems the trend of price increase threads is speaking volumes and to pump out a product in the $70 range is suicide when you can easily produce hand brushed durable finishes like this for under $30


Like that Behr finish!


----------



## matt19422

My feelings on Behr are as follows:

"Better to leave the walls Bare than put Behr on the walls":whistling2:


----------



## A+HomeWork

I just completed an 11 gallon job painting lots of window frames by hand while spraying soffits, fascia, gutters, and garage door with Emerald satin.

I didn't like it's odor. (Sorry. I'm strange like that.)
I felt it skinned too fast to brush in this summer heat. (Duration can too.)
Back-brushing and hand brushing required second coat even over previously painted surfaces of the same color.
Tested a new piece of white wood and it yellowed the extra white first and second coats. (The can says it is self-priming.)
Sprayed-only sections looked great.
It has a hard shell feel a half hour after application.
Sheen levels very nicely.
No brush marks if you can keep a wet edge.
Frickin sticks to anything it touches! Shields, brush handles, me..., my pickup tube on spray rig.
I sure as heck would not paint in direct sunlight unless it was like 7 am.

Some of these remarks could fit a lot of paints, but that's my answer to the OPs question 6 months ago!!


----------



## dvab

mpminter said:


> I disagree. I have used a ton of duration the last couple years, and I can tell you that Emerald is a completely different animal.


Agreed. Viscosity of Emerald and Duration (exteriors) are very different, the former being much thinner than the latter. Emerald applies like a conventional exterior (e.g. SuperPaint and Moorgard) and not a high build like Duration so in spite of what the TDS says about 6 or so mils wet, no way you are getting that much Emerald on the surface with one coat - you will need two to achieve the same thickness as one of Duration.


----------



## Northwest_painter

Well After Being retirement for a while. I stopped by My SWP to chat. They were just getting Emerald in the store finally. I got a free demo gallon of it. At 71.99 a gallon no contractor home owner would touch it. I went home spent some money on a quart of Glidden, Behr cringe, Prat & Lambert BM, KM, Parker. I took hardy plank siding and did a side by side comparison of each to Emerald. Hands down two coats of every one else was equal to one coat of Emerald. Enough said best dang paint I have seen and used in a long time.


----------



## GuyWhoKnows

matt19422 said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong: BM uses more pigments/colorants in there paint, so SW cannot duplicate it 100%


Yes you are wrong. All Paints use Colorants and Pigments not just Benjamin-Moore. I think what you might have meant to say is that Benjamin Moore uses Gen X Colorants that don't add VOC's to the paint and make them cover better? Perhaps? If that is what you meant, no you're wrong (again). Many companies use WB Colorant systems that don't add VOC. If that is not what you meant, then I don't know....


----------



## matt19422

GuyWhoKnows said:


> Yes you are wrong. All Paints use Colorants and Pigments not just Benjamin-Moore. I think what you might have meant to say is that Benjamin Moore uses Gen X Colorants that don't add VOC's to the paint and make them cover better? Perhaps? If that is what you meant, no you're wrong (again). Many companies use WB Colorant systems that don't add VOC. If that is not what you meant, then I don't know....


http://www.painttalk.com/members/matt19422-4720/albums/temp/2900-photo-2.jpg

Really? That picture is straight out of one of my fan BM classic fan decks.... 

Also, this is why you can't duplicate one of there other fan decks called color stories:

"Unlike conventional paint formulas, the Color Stories palette includes more than the traditional combination of three pigments and does not use any tints of gray or black. Instead, five to seven pigments are incorporated per color. These colors have a greater clarity, purity and are richer than conventional colors because they are formulated with more pigments in very precise, exacting amounts."

Benjamin Moore's website.


----------



## GuyWhoKnows

Wow, did that quote come from the Benjamin Moore HQ located in Jonestown, Guyana? Any company can match colors if they have the right equipment. It's not that difficult. Obviously BM will put that on their can to deter people from going to SW or ICI, or whatever...it's a good ploy...I'm sure it works most of the time. It's not accurate though...


----------



## luap2011

Was going to start a new thread but figured I would add onto this. Currently using emerald at a job for a client who is getting sporadic chemo treatments and wanted a zero voc paint for interior repainting in a few rooms. Our local store gave it to us at the price of promar 200 zero voc (which we were going to use and probably should have stuck to). Just wanted to share my opinion of the interior paint.
I am not impressed by it and have a few problems with it:
1. It may be zero voc but boy does that paint have a horrible odor to it that gave me a headache. Especially the semi gloss. 
2. It has poor coverage quality, 2 coats over a very similar color
3. I really think they just put a fancy label on duration, because it performs just like it 
4. Very hard to wash out of tools 

It levels out nice and holds a nice cut in line, but thats about all the positive things i have to say about it. Anyone else use the interior line yet?


----------



## ColorQuest

luap2011 said:


> Was going to start a new thread but figured I would add onto this. Currently using emerald at a job for a client who is getting sporadic chemo treatments and wanted a zero voc paint for interior repainting in a few rooms. Our local store gave it to us at the price of promar 200 zero voc (which we were going to use and probably should have stuck to). Just wanted to share my opinion of the interior paint.
> I am not impressed by it and have a few problems with it:
> 1. It may be zero voc but boy does that paint have a horrible odor to it that gave me a headache. Especially the semi gloss.
> 2. It has poor coverage quality, 2 coats over a very similar color
> 3. I really think they just put a fancy label on duration, because it performs just like it
> 4. Very hard to wash out of tools
> 
> It levels out nice and holds a nice cut in line, but thats about all the positive things i have to say about it. Anyone else use the interior line yet?


My experience with Emerald was the complete opposite. I have used the exterior and interior. The interior was incredible imo easily in the same league as Aura from my experience. The reason I like it so much is that to me it was nothing like Duration. The exterior was amazing for me as well, again nothing like the exterior Duration latex pudding. Just my .02
Jay


----------



## TERRY365PAINTER

I just use it on a repaint , similar color to what was on the wall. Brushed really nice with a Picasso . Drys funny ? But covers great ! 
Doesn't seem to have the flashing problems I got with duration home . For a zero Voc nice stuff . 
I would use it again . Darker colors I would have to see. For the price they would have to be my upper end clients . 
Ok 2 paints I like from them .


----------



## mudbone

I used it for the 1st time last week and I wasn't to impressed!It actually bubbled up on me in several areas.I actually also used Promar 200 low voc the week before that and I have to say I was impressed by it more.Lots cheaper to.


----------



## chrisn

mudbone said:


> I used it for the 1st time last week and I wasn't to impressed!It actually bubbled up on me in several areas.I actually also used Promar 200 low voc the week before that and I have to say I was impressed by it more.Lots cheaper to.


 
that's just the bones personality at work


----------



## alertchief

My experience with it gave me the worst headache in years . Not usually prone to any issues with aroma but this one is horrible for a zero voc paint. Isn't the goal of a low odor voc paint to not affect the customer ( who was not impressed ) 

I felt its coverage was good and compared it to maybe close to regal select. I was not super happy with it doing to cut in areas as it seemed to take to much effort getting solid coverage in the area below the cut line. 

My biggest complaint is the final appearance . I put it on with a half inch roller ( lower may have been better) and its final appearance if you look very close looks almost like it has micro fractures and a ton of surface tension as it dried that shows in its final look. Used Aura on a different room right next to this and it does not have that and looks smooth and polished.

Wont be standing in the short line for this product.


----------



## Damon T

My SW store said they could barely keep it on the shelves! LOL! I think they have to say that. I haven't tried it yet.


----------



## AztecPainting

Damon T said:


> My SW store said they could barely keep it on the shelves!


That is correct.

We started a house last week where our customer wanted Emerald (expensive choice but since he wanted to pay for it I didn't care much) 

I had my budget between 18 and 20 gallons maximum as per my square footage measuring method (one of those dream square box house and no trim to be painted), so I measured all the wall space like any other job but I am now at 29 gallons after and still need to second coat an area 15ft x 8ft.

Today as we were doing the second coat at a 20ft x 8ft wall I used 3 gallons, I don't know if it is the colour what its causing this to happen (dark blue) also I am unable to keep a wet edge at all times, temperature is ranging from 20 C to max of 25 C which we try to work on the shade at all times, it covers amazing for such a dark colour but we have been putting on so much paint like I've never seen before. 

Not that I am trashing the product because it is good, good coverage but I just have never used that ridiculous amount of paint on an exterior like this before, also to add that I have taken the entire paint off the shelves and had to stop some work because we don't have the product, so they had to ship it from another cities to keep us happy and as fast as they could.

I am thinking now that I should have stick to my normal everyday A-100 or even Duracraft.

Cheers everyone.


----------



## PatsPainting

Ouch - your getting 53sqft per gallon, that's way below even elastomeric paints. You sure your guys are not putting some away for their personal use?

I never used it so I really have no idea but it seems something is wrong here.

Pat


----------



## PatsPainting

I guessing you are doing exterior but in general all good paints cover great when using dark colors over light.

Here is one coat of just using Ben flat over swiss coffee

Pat


----------



## AztecPainting

PatsPainting said:


> Ouch - your getting 53sqft per gallon, that's way below even elastomeric paints. You sure your guys are not putting some away for their personal use?
> 
> I never used it so I really have no idea but it seems something is wrong here.
> 
> Pat


It seems a little ridiculous to be honest, I've been at the project since the beginning so I know how much we have used to far and because it doesn't come on fiver and only singles, we have too many for the recycling now.

The real problem isn't covering dark over white, just normal application by spraying and backrolling just like any other, last house we did was a little larger and we used 21 gallons of A-100, same surface.


----------



## Paradigmzz

AztecPainting said:


> It seems a little ridiculous to be honest, I've been at the project since the beginning so I know how much we have used to far and because it doesn't come on fiver and only singles, we have too many for the recycling now.
> 
> The real problem isn't covering dark over white, just normal application by spraying and backrolling just like any other, last house we did was a little larger and we used 21 gallons of A-100, same surface.


I don't believe this. I have no experience with emerald interior but have shot a few hundred gallons of exterior and to get anything less than 300 sq a gallon sounds unbelievable. What is the substrate? I assume stucco or rough cedar? What tip size are you using? I am not calling you a liar, this is just very odd to hear as I have gotten significantly better coverage from emerald compared to other exterior paints.


----------



## mudbone

Damon T said:


> My SW store said they could barely keep it on the shelves! LOL! I think they have to say that. I haven't tried it yet.


 Need heavier shelving!:yes:


----------



## Holly

Paul, have you tried the Behr paint in satin finish?


----------



## vegaspainter

I used Emerald on a door last week. I am not a fan. I am going to stay away from it.


----------



## dubinpainting

alertchief said:


> Has anyone had the opportunity to use any of this stuff yet? Had coffee with the local district manager yesterday and he is pretty hyped about this new paint which is supposed to be a step up from interior Duration?


Got four gallons for free, Of course it was a dark purple so The coverage was horrible, I am not impressed, I think if you pay 50 plus for a gallon of paint it should perform flawless!


----------



## mudbone

Holly said:


> Paul, have you tried the Behr paint in satin finish?


 Mud has.:yes:


----------



## Holly

mudbone said:


> Mud has.:yes:


And it levels out smoothly in the satin?


----------



## TJ Paint

Holly said:


> And it levels out smoothly in the satin?


This might pose as a challenge for him to reply with one of his classic one liners...


----------



## straight_lines

TJ Paint said:


> This might pose as a challenge for him to reply with one of his classic one liners...


That is easy.. 

You can behrly see the brush strokes. :jester:


----------



## drums4jay

I've used Emerald on a couple of houses (exterior). The satin dries real nicely and gives almost a "dipped cone" appearance. I've had some serious issues with the flat. We painted a MDF siding house 2 coats. A couple of days later we get a call from the construction company we did the job for saying there were marks in the paint. I show up to take a look, and there are dried outlines of water that had apparently run down the boards and left marks. Paint rep says it's not the paint and that water was in the mdf board and is coming out through the paint....the jury is still out on my end. We waited a week, went back, primed the boards with oil primer and recoated one coat today. It seemed to be drying unevenly, even though we took our time and was very thorough to make sure we didn't get another call back. It was also highlighting lap marks quite a bit. not real happy with the product. I'll know more tomorrow about how it dried in and if the water problem is solved. Talk about a headache.


----------



## Skip

*Emerald*

Used it on a small exterior, purchased paint at 40% off sale. Good paint for discounted price, won't know if it's worth the regular price until I check the house again in a few more years.


----------



## AztecPainting

Paradigmzz said:


> I don't believe this. I have no experience with emerald interior but have shot a few hundred gallons of exterior and to get anything less than 300 sq a gallon sounds unbelievable. What is the substrate? I assume stucco or rough cedar? What tip size are you using? I am not calling you a liar, this is just very odd to hear as I have gotten significantly better coverage from emerald compared to other exterior paints.


Thanks for calling me a liar, I know how much paint I used and bought, and like I said, my intention is not trashing the product, I just thought it was odd for it to be using such a ridiculous amount on this stucco house and it might not even be the product, it might be the stucco itself, I asked a stucco guy and said there was too much lime on on stucco so I don't know what it means really. 

By the way, I don't know if it is in your country or only in Canada but for being a newer and expensive product there's not a lot of it in the shelves at the stores (at least I emptied 3 stores of Emerald for this project only) so it does sounds like bs to me that you have already used hundreds of it, just saying...


----------



## 6126

Im not reading through 10 pages, but heres my experience so far.....First off......On exteriors, Im a Super Paint guy. Have been since it came out roughly 20 years ago. Before that, I was using A-100. I never really got on the Duration wagon. Anyway, last week my SW Rep stopped by an exterior I was working on and brought me some Emerald to try out on the trim. First thing I noticed is it goes on better using the stiffer bristle brushes like the blue bristle Purdys. Good coverage. It goes on thinner than Duration or SP so I could probably get more sq footage per gallon than Duration or SP. Its a little tricky to work with on a humid day. I usually roll or spray gutters, (Usually SW DTM Semi-Gloss) but I brushed some to see how the stuff lays down, and it defineatly lays down very nice. I would have to do a few complete exterior with it before I could compare it to Aura. As for pricing? SW has plenty of 30 and 40 percent off sales. Since Im generally booked out a bit its not hard to plan ahead and pick it up at a discount. Am I going to use it? Highly unlikely. As I already mentioned, Super Paint works fine for me. Thats my review. I hope you liked it lol


----------



## TJ Paint

I still don't know what it has that aura doesn't. And aura has been out for a nice long time with minimal hang ups.


----------



## mudbone

alertchief said:


> My experience with it gave me the worst headache in years . Not usually prone to any issues with aroma but this one is horrible for a zero voc paint. Isn't the goal of a low odor voc paint to not affect the customer ( who was not impressed )
> 
> I felt its coverage was good and compared it to maybe close to regal select. I was not super happy with it doing to cut in areas as it seemed to take to much effort getting solid coverage in the area below the cut line.
> 
> My biggest complaint is the final appearance . I put it on with a half inch roller ( lower may have been better) and its final appearance if you look very close looks almost like it has micro fractures and a ton of surface tension as it dried that shows in its final look. Used Aura on a different room right next to this and it does not have that and looks smooth and polished.
> 
> Wont be standing in the short line for this product.


 Price alone is enough to give me a headache!


----------



## TJ Paint

mudbone said:


> Price alone is enough to give me a headache!


wallet ache= butthurt!


----------



## 6126

TJ Paint said:


> I still don't know what it has that aura doesn't. And aura has been out for a nice long time with minimal hang ups.


I was just looking at some stuff I brushed out last week and I gotta say, I'm impressed. 
It leaves a really nice finish. I think Aura is great, but this stuff really lays down really good, and there's no need to add anything like extender.. And again on the price, SW is always having 30% off sales. I could be wrong, but i don't recall BM ever having a sale?


----------



## ReNt A PaInTeR

How much is Emerald's regular price?


----------



## 6126

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> How much is Emerald's regular price?


$70.99 for exterior flat shelf price. Howuch is Aura?


----------



## straight_lines

$51.99


----------



## 6126

straight_lines said:


> $51.99


For Aura?


----------



## straight_lines

Yup. And the spread rate is about 150 square better.


----------



## 6126

We are referring to shelf price right? Otherwise maybe I should post Emerald at 40% off sale price  I haven't bought any Aura in a while so I can't recall what it goes for retail? http://store.benjaminmoore.com/storefront/interior-paints/aura-interior-paint/prodPRM24.html


----------



## straight_lines

That is what the retail price is at my stores right now in Wilmington. I think its usually about 10% higher.


----------



## 6126

straight_lines said:


> Yup. And the spread rate is about 150 square better.


I haven't used much yet, but I trust the reviews you post


----------



## straight_lines

Just think it always needs to be brought up when the price is compared to Aura. Emerald does have much better work ability I agree. We will see how well it holds up to fading in a few years.


----------



## ReNt A PaInTeR

Woodland said:


> $70.99 for exterior flat shelf price. Howuch is Aura?


$ 69.95 after tax


----------

