# Hat banding?



## Salvie (Apr 28, 2007)

Hello everyone, looking for some guidance on application. We are working with ben moore regal flat and are expieriencing what some may call picture framing or hat banding. we think we are following standard application prociedures, ex. boxing paint, cut and roll while cut is still wet . it is not extreeme but deffenatley noticable. there is a good amount of light comming in from the exteirior, could it be the way light plays on the different finnish of the cut to the roller? please excuse the spelling my computer would not run a check. would love some feedback. :confused1:​


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## Safety Guy (Jul 19, 2007)

This may be a stupid question but are you using a deep color?? Red, navy blue, burgandy??


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## painterman (Jun 2, 2007)

Some of BM dark colours are a real PITA for banding. Try rolling as tight as possable to the ceiling and use as little brush as possable to cut in. Maybe a 6 inch sleeve sideways tight to the ceiling.


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## slickshift (Apr 8, 2007)

*Can't tell if it's excessive from here...or just normal but...*

Use premium brushes for cutting in
Consider rolling closer to the edge-even mini rolling the cut, or to the cut

Or even a French Roll (like a croissant...ha ha ha...I mean taping off the unpainted side to get the roller right up to it and stuff it in there like a crepe...or a baguette or one of those French things that get stuffed into corners)


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## welovepainting (May 13, 2007)

just like they said above also maybe try keeping wet on wet if need be do one wall at a time complete, then move to the next wall. We only do that on dark and or glossy colors


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## slickshift (Apr 8, 2007)

Salvie said:


> please excuse the spelling my computer would not run a check. would love some feedback.​


Get FireFox (web browser)...built in spell-check for forums
http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/


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## Salvie (Apr 28, 2007)

thanks for the response fella's, it is ben moore 1045 a mid-tone beige,we always use quality brushes, however rolling out the cut(cross rolling) is something i used to do, being easy for me at 6ft+ but got away from for a number of reasons. 1) concern about lap marks from the cross roll. 2) occational wrong turn with the roller resulting in ceiling tuch up, 3) some crew members cant handle it being "verticaly challenged" sorry guy's. once again thanks, look foward to trying and learning new things.


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## Joewho (Apr 17, 2007)

Being vertically challenged myself, banding hasn't been a problem.
Try to keep the mils consistent with the brush and roller. If you lay on 2 mils with the brush then lay on 2 mils with the roller and use light pressure to blend it into the cut.

Had a job once where the purple was so deep, I had to keep stirring it to keep the colors mixed. In the end I wound up laying an extra coat on the walls without cutting in again. Or was it an extra cut in coat? Can't remember, but try these methods and you'll get the hang of it.

Even before doing anything, let the paint dry overnight, if it still bands, then try the tricks.


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## paintbiz (Nov 6, 2007)

Sometimes I have rolled first and cut in last to get rid of banding. Seems it's easier with some paint to blend them that way.


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## dincao (Oct 25, 2007)

what size roller nap are you using?? typically with a color that light it really shoundnt be a problem especially using bm flat!!! If u are using anything more that 1/2 roller nap that could be problem... also what is happening w/ you is something typical w/ using something w/ a little more sheen and a lot of light!!! i also agree w/ cross rolling cut line first and then str rolling, i am also 6ft plus and really never had any problems especially w/ bm flat!!!!


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## timhag (Sep 30, 2007)

Try some Flotrol.


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## ProTouchPainting (Dec 28, 2007)

I also used to tell myself it was the simple from the roller the light was reflecting off of. Or maybe film thickness differences. 
Trust me change brands of paint, it will fix the problem! I don't even think it a grade problem. Its the company at the time.
For instance. 
Porter Pro Flat used to be bad about that. Only thing i found to fix it was wait one day and cut in for a third time. Wouldn't touch up for nothing! Some times lighter some times darker even with the same paint left for touch up. Made no since at all.
They always claimed ohh its the light base or its the dark base or my butt hurts or what ever. Don't by it, unless it looks like a color that would be a pain like red/black/purple or what not something really dark.
Well, now ever thing from them works fine. 
Its what there mixing into the formula at the time i think. Trying cheaper ingredients id guess. 

Another instance. I used Farrel Calhoun's washable flat for 3 years with no problems at all. Best Flat id used. Dark Beige colors even touched up after sitting for three months. Can you say always touched up!!!!
Well i got out of painting for a while and when i came back, It didn't touch up. And hat banded just a hint. But the crap wouldn't wash out of rollers for nothing. Mated them almost unusable in half a day of rolling and looked like oil when you tried to wash them..
They claimed it was the temp difference when it wouldn't touch up. But id think id have ran into the same problem before considering i used it summer threw winter for three years before. Bind over and let the smoke out of your rear end if your bying that. Id think it might make a difference it sure makes since. But i no for a fact it worked before so the only thing i can think of that might have changed would have been there ingredients (cheap!) which might be more temp sensitive.
Well thats fixed to now. Least last i tried it was anyway. I'm back on Porter till they screw it up again.

If your doing new construction where you have to touch up when the house is completed. Id almost bet ya if it hat bands at all, it will never touch up on punch out.

I'm not rolling side ways with any paint. Switch brands it will save you a fortune in time. And ill bet they will get the problem fixed soon! :thumbsup:


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## A Painter (Oct 18, 2007)

Hi Salvie,

I believe a major cause of hatbanding is the difference in TEXTURE. Brushing and rolling obviously are different textures and certain paint sheens and products handle the light differently causing the hatband effect. There are also problems with lapmarks, but I'm guessing that is a different problem.

We use a "french roll" - the tall guy rollout - when we are having those problems.

Good Luck,

Steve Cole
A Painting Company
Sammamish, WA


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## Joewho (Apr 17, 2007)

One of the textures is heavy brush trails running horizontally.


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## T200 (Nov 11, 2007)

Just encountered the same thing on a light beige. It was caused by difference in light reflection in brushed/rolled areas.

We ended up going around the walls next to the ceiling with a whiz/cigar/mini roller, rolling as close to the ceiling as possible. The stipple created by the mini roller eliminated the problem.


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## Tmrrptr (May 4, 2007)

T200 has got it figgered...


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