# What Do Paint Contractors Wish Homeowners Understood?



## Admin (Jan 4, 2010)

We have all seen the results of what can happen when home owners choose the wrong paint contractor (or worse yet, try to do it themselves) especially when they have made their choice, simply trying to save a few bucks.

What are some things that you wish home owners understood? 

What tips would you offer for choosing a quality paint contractor?


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## Brian C (Oct 8, 2011)

I guess most homeowners are motivated by the cheapest price from a hack painter rather than getting a quality job from a true profesional.


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## Admin (Jan 4, 2010)

Brian C said:


> I guess most homeowners are motivated by the cheapest price from a hack painter rather than getting a quality job from a true profesional.


I guess that is where my question is though. 

Y'all can probably spot a hack in a heat beat, but how does the general public know the difference before the work is done? What should they look for?


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## Brian C (Oct 8, 2011)

down here in Australia, some of my competitors will spin a great sales pitch to the homeowner to win the job, then they contract the work out to another painting crew. 

Usually its a rag-tag bunch of workers that fronts up to the job to the horror of the customer.


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

Do you carry insurance and how much.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

That we have to make a living too. Yes, you go to work all day, but my job is to make your home/office as nice and comfortable as possible


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

That we are sensitive and have feelings too. :icon_cry:


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## benthepainter (Jun 17, 2011)

That when the kettle whistles it's smoko time and they are welcome to sit down and have a cup of tea










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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

benthepainter said:


> That when the kettle whistles it's smoko time and they are welcome to sit down and have a cup of tea
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Must be nice to have a personal photographer following you around :whistling2::jester:


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Mine is when we ask them to clean up their dirty laundry, 20 years worth of dust and most important ladies please hide your toys better. Hiding them under a bed that has to be moved isn't a good spot.


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## benthepainter (Jun 17, 2011)

It's not bad : )


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## Delta Painting (Apr 27, 2010)

That it cost money to run a business and to get the paint and other things to paint your home or office...


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

The homeowners should understand that Big Box Stores, HGTV, most paint ads, and many other industry shills are motivated by profit only and that NOT anyone can paint correctly.

The homeowners should understand that in order for any architectural coating to perform properly, it MUST have a good foundation. Proper preparation is critical, and more than half the labor involved. They wouldn't build a house on sand. Why waste money on a paint job build on an inadequate foundation ?


The homeowner should understand that in the time it takes them to do a crappy job on their home, they could have earned more than twice the amount the experienced expert painter estimated to do the job right.


The homeowner should understand that when comparing estimates, they need to compare apples to apples.


The homeowner should understand that they are NOT just painting their home for looks but PROTECTING perhaps their largest investment from rot and decay. 


We always tried to make the homeowner understand that QUALITY doesn't cost, it PAYS.

Or as the sign in Johnson's Paint reads:


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

I would like customers (and GCs for that matter) to understand that despite the fact that usually the painters are the last ones working on your projects, we aren't the ones holding you back from being able to move in. We're just the part of the process that started later than everyone else and it takes the time it takes for us to do our part.

Nobody was freaking on the guy pouring the slab saying "I want my home done today!" Nobody expected the guy framing to have the place move in ready by tomorrow.

I'd also like them to understand that we aren't millionaires, so constantly trying to bring our prices down or get a deal means money straight out of our pockets. We have bills to pay, families to feed and we'd like to buy a new toy someday too.

Around here, people who work at the nuclear power plant make more money in a day than I do in a week, retiring at 50 with a huge buyout package or pension. But they're always the ones asking for a deal or handing you a gallon of Behr they got on sale but want a BM job done.


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## D&K Custom (Oct 10, 2014)

daArch said:


> The homeowners should understand that Big Box Stores, HGTV, most paint ads, and many other industry shills are motivated by profit only and that NOT anyone can paint correctly.
> 
> The homeowners should understand that in order for any architectural coating to perform properly, it MUST have a good foundation. Proper preparation is critical, and more than half the labor involved. They wouldn't build a house on sand. Why waste money on a paint job build on an inadequate foundation ?
> 
> ...


Well said! All of these points are spot on!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

benthepainter said:


> That when the kettle whistles it's smoko time and they are welcome to sit down and have a cup of tea
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I don't understand. Why isn't this picture upside down? lol.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

cdpainting said:


> Must be nice to have a personal photographer following you around :whistling2::jester:


 Paparazzi. He must be a hella good painter!


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Proalliance coatings said:


> Paparazzi. He must be a hella good painter!


Helper's probably grumbling "all I do all day is take pictures of this guy. This isn't what I wanted out of life."


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

I have a lot to say about this as a retailer, but most of what you are all saying is spot on. My biggest issue is the way the paint companies play up to the instant gratification demand that consumers have today,all the while knowing that the DIY'ers are typically not going to get the end result and durability that they expect from the marketing. I actually have a new tag line in my advertising-" I'm bringing primer back!" which is my feeble way to re-educate the masses in this regard. I could go on, but no double spacing so...


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Helper's probably grumbling "all I do all day is take pictures of this guy. This isn't what I wanted out of life."


 Idk. Sounds like a heck of a gig to me. Although I certainly would rather be following Selena Gomez or some other pretty young lady around all day. No offense of course!


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Proalliance coatings said:


> I have a lot to say about this as a retailer, but most of what you are all saying is spot on. My biggest issue is the way the paint companies play up to the instant gratification demand that consumers have today,all the while knowing that the DIY'ers are typically not going to get the end result and durability that they expect from the marketing. I actually have a new tag line in my advertising-" I'm bringing primer back!" which is my feeble way to re-educate the masses in this regard. I could go on, but no double spacing so...


Half of it is the marketing and the other half is HGTV showing some model painting in high heels with no drop sheet using the "M" method of rolling with a cup of latte in her other hand. Then after the commercial break for you know who ("You can do it, we can help"), showing the finished room looking absolutely stunning.

They never show the actual poor painter, quietly sobbing behind the camera because he'll/she'll never make it on TV or make the money the model is making.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Half of it is the marketing and the other half is HGTV showing some model painting in high heels with no drop sheet using the "M" method of rolling with a cup of latte in her other hand. Then after the commercial break for you know who ("You can do it, we can help"), showing the finished room looking absolutely stunning.
> 
> They never show the actual poor painter, quietly sobbing behind the camera because he'll/she'll never make it on TV or make the money the model is making.


 Of course you can't forget the now classic "spazzed out swan lake painting" technique they use on the current Marquee commercial. Or worse, on one "home improvement" show, I saw a woman using Marquee in a deep green painting an accent wall with one of those little 3" disposable trim rollers. The ones with the wire handles. Of course, 30 seconds later it had a perfect, blotch free coat on it.


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

Brian C said:


> down here in Australia, some of my competitors will spin a great sales pitch to the homeowner to win the job, then they contract the work out to another painting crew.
> 
> Usually its a rag-tag bunch of workers that fronts up to the job to the horror of the customer.


Exactly the same situation here in Toronto.


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## MIZZOU (Nov 18, 2012)

One tip I have been using for about a year now (with great success) is to offer my LAST 3 jobs as references. This way the H.O. knows that their contractor isn't cherry picking references or that they're talking to their buddy that's posing as a happy customer. I've had MANY bids accepted simply because I offer this. The customers seem to LOVE the transparency and almost always offers to be 1 of the 3 references for my future bids. 

If folks asked for a painting contractors previous 3 jobs, it would eliminate most hacks. I would think a bad contractor would be hesitant to do this, where as a pro would embrace it.


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

MIZZOU said:


> One tip I have been using for about a year now (with great success) is to offer my LAST 3 jobs as references. This way the H.O. knows that their contractor isn't cherry picking references or that they're talking to their buddy that's posing as a happy customer. I've had MANY bids accepted simply because I offer this. The customers seem to LOVE the transparency and almost always offers to be 1 of the 3 references for my future bids.
> 
> If folks asked for a painting contractors previous 3 jobs, it would eliminate most hacks. I would think a bad contractor would be hesitant to do this, where as a pro would embrace it.


Great idea, we might try this!


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

No I cannot "just do this real quick while I'm here". 

I had a lady a couple of months ago that wanted a price on her exterior. I went to meet with her and she says "I need my interior trim done and was thinking you could just do it for me if I give you the exterior." After she got the price for the trim (and exterior) she said "Well, I'm gonna have to think about this, but I would obviously just have to do the trim myself now."

Never heard back from her.


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## DunriteNJ (Aug 15, 2014)

daArch said:


> The homeowners should understand that Big Box Stores, HGTV, most paint ads, and many other industry shills are motivated by profit only and that NOT anyone can paint correctly.
> 
> The homeowners should understand that in order for any architectural coating to perform properly, it MUST have a good foundation. Proper preparation is critical, and more than half the labor involved. They wouldn't build a house on sand. Why waste money on a paint job build on an inadequate foundation ?
> 
> ...


Definitely great points

these are things we need to educate them in the sales process to avoid future issues as the job progresses

I will also add one more-

The homeowner should understand that i dont have a crystal ball predicting weather which may push their job start back a few days or a week


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Hines Painting said:


> No I cannot "just do this real quick while I'm here".
> 
> I had a lady a couple of months ago that wanted a price on her exterior. I went to meet with her and she says "I need my interior trim done and was thinking you could just do it for me if I give you the exterior." After she got the price for the trim (and exterior) she said "Well, I'm gonna have to think about this, but I would obviously just have to do the trim myself now."
> 
> Never heard back from her.


That's an absolutely ridiculous thing to even consider asking for. That's one of those situations where you're glad you never heard back from them. She'd be grinding on you for something for free the whole way through.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

daArch said:


> The homeowners should understand that Big Box Stores, HGTV, most paint ads, and many other industry shills are motivated by profit only and that NOT anyone can paint correctly.
> 
> The homeowners should understand that in order for any architectural coating to perform properly, it MUST have a good foundation. Proper preparation is critical, and more than half the labor involved. They wouldn't build a house on sand. Why waste money on a paint job build on an inadequate foundation ?
> 
> ...


I do not know if I have just been getting lucky lately, or if more people are begining to understand the time it takes to get a good paint job. But, I have just been getting a lot of customers that get it. No requests to use cheap paint, and they trust me when I explain the process and cost of doing it right.


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

Dear homeowner please understand that $3,000.00 you paid me to paint your home didn't all go into my pocket ...

some went into Sherwin Williams pocket ... actually quite a bit of it did as you wanted Emerald paint

a few dollars went to the local gas station & my worker insurance lined their pocket too

then my employees, shop expenses, tools & operating cost left me with a small portion for my hard work

i gave you a beautiful paint job with high quality workmanship in return ...

so stop acting like i over charged you :blink:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Pete the Painter said:


> I do not know if I have just been getting lucky lately, or if more people are begining to understand the time it takes to get a good paint job. But, I have just been getting a lot of customers that get it. No requests to use cheap paint, and they trust me when I explain the process and cost of doing it right.



Pete,

We in Mass DO have a number of HO's who do "get it". After all, many have benefited from our hallowed halls of higher education. SAVOR those jobs, for soon enough they will be balanced out by our other absurd abundance of churls and poltroons.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

I wish HO's understood that trying to schedule an EXACT start date to paint their exterior 1 month from now is extremely difficult. When it comes to scheduling exteriors, the best I can do is give you a range of dates and keep you posted as we near the start date. Sure, I'll honor an exact start date if you insist, but you need to understand that this can put me in a bind, since my schedule is predicated on the weather, so I may finish my last job 4 days before your scheduled start date, but unable to take on another in the meantime, for fear of bad weather prolonging the job. That means that because you insist I begin on a certain date, I'm out almost a weeks pay before we start your job. 

I also wish HO's understood that the more time they spend preparing for me, (be it clearing junk from rooms they agreed to do, or trimming all your overgrown bushes & shrubs before I start), the more time I will have to give them the best paint job I possibly can. 

Last but not least, I wish HO's understood that I, like lotsa folks, will sometimes need to use a bathroom. Offering one of your 5 bathrooms to me and my crew is a huge relief...both literally & figuratively.


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## NACE (May 16, 2008)

No, you are not going to get 5 years out of you Thompsons Water Seal on your 25 year old pressure treated deck that's never been treated before.


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## MikeL (Jan 5, 2015)

From Stelzerpaintinginc:
I wish HO's understood that trying to schedule an EXACT start date to paint their exterior 1 month from now is extremely difficult. When it comes to scheduling exteriors, the best I can do is give you a range of dates and keep you posted as we near the start date.

I've tried given the homeowner a more vague estimated start day, like the week of the 18th. But of course, in their mind, the start date is the 18th, so when I let them know ahead of time that I'll be starting their project on the 20th, I'd get the response "Well you said it would be the 18th". Time to try a new method. Maybe I'll be even more vague, like projected start date of mid June or late July. Currently I have two customers that I have set specific dates for August and November. Can't wait to try and schedule around that. Hopefully they will be flexible when the time comes.

Along those lines, I wish the HO's understood that I am not sitting at home waiting for you to call with your project. So when you tell me that you would like to get started tomorrow or even next week I have to bite my tongue. Man, my tongue hurts!


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

daArch said:


> Pete,
> 
> We in Mass DO have a number of HO's who do "get it". After all, many have benefited from our hallowed halls of higher education. SAVOR those jobs, for soon enough they will be balanced out by our other absurd abundance of churls and poltroons.


I have had several in the past, just seem to be getting much better cutomers lately. Part of it surely has to do with not advertising on Craigs List. I only do that when work is getting real slow.


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## jpcarr79 (Nov 20, 2014)

That using a spotlight and/or magnifying glass to inspect is unreasonable. PDCA says 39 inch's in regular lighting. Don't blame me for your sheetrocker/mudder or cabinet maker.


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## benthepainter (Jun 17, 2011)

Proalliance coatings said:


> I don't understand. Why isn't this picture upside down? lol.



I think my personal photographer had it on the American setting ? I fixed the setting today Cheers










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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

benthepainter said:


> I think my personal photographer had it on the American setting ? I fixed the setting today Cheers
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh thanks! You had me worried for a while.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

NACE said:


> No, you are not going to get 5 years out of you Thompsons Water Seal on your 25 year old pressure treated deck that's never been treated before.


More like 5 months if your lucky!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

I'm going to use this thread as an opportunity to vent a little. When you, a homeowner, come to my store to find out what went wrong with the one coat of Marquee over wallpaper adhesive idea that the kid at Home depot said would work fine, Don't act like I am trying to rip you off when I tell you that you should have used an oil based primer first. Don't defend the idiot that got you into this mess in the first place, and don't act like he knows more about it than I do just to justify your ignorance. I am NOT trying to rip you off by recommending a primer! That's a good way to get the response "I have no idea what went wrong, it's not my brand!" to get you out of my store. Also, you get put on my full retail list. NO PAINT FOR YOU! COME BACK-ONE YEAR! signed; The Paint Nazi.


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## NACE (May 16, 2008)

Proalliance coatings said:


> I'm going to use this thread as an opportunity to vent a little. When you, a homeowner, come to my store to find out what went wrong with the one coat of Marquee over wallpaper adhesive idea that the kid at Home depot said would work fine, Don't act like I am trying to rip you off when I tell you that you should have used an oil based primer first. Don't defend the idiot that got you into this mess in the first place, and don't act like he knows more about it than I do just to justify your ignorance. I am NOT trying to rip you off by recommending a primer! That's a good way to get the response "I have no idea what went wrong, it's not my brand!" to get you out of my store. Also, you get put on my full retail list. NO PAINT FOR YOU! COME BACK-ONE YEAR! signed; The Paint Nazi.


And don't come into the store, pick colors off the chip rack, take a stack of color cards, ask me for advice on how to re-stain your deck, then scoot to Depot, buy the stain, and come back the following weekend and complain the stuff was garbage and ask me to match their crappy match and complain about the price at 6:55 when we are 5 minutes to close on a Sunday. And you have a graduation party and need it done NOW!


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Dang, you paint suppliers are getting cranky. :whistling2:


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## Picky_Painter (May 12, 2015)

We are not professional movers...

Things happen on jobs, and sometimes our schedule gets a little screwy at times... And no I cant bump a guy thats been waiting 6 weeks cause you wated til wednesday to stain the deck and the party is on saturday.

I cant start tomorrow...

How to spot a hack showing up at your house?

how are they dressed? Whats their vehicle look like? Mine is 20 years old, and most people think its maybe 10? MAYBE!

clean professional and organized. I invite potential clients to come to my jobs (exteriors) and see our work first hand. I have pages of referrals, and thousands of photos of our work.

Im not the cheapest, but I also dont market to areas I dont want to work... I target middle and upperclass clients, like a laser...

And my reputation, is solid. I will lose money on a job before I screw over a client.

Oh and my contract price is moy price. Period. It doesnt change. if they add something major like another room or paint the garage thats a new contract.


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## TKbrush (Dec 30, 2014)

One of the things ive learned and am learning, i have to weigh/measure my explaining about technical stuff sometimes, like whats goin on with a particular wall. Sometimes, especially when in a state of exhaustion, i am sure i have confused my customers with too much information, meaning well ofcourse. There are those 25 little extra things ya do regarding prep work, that the customer will never know about. With options about certain things with the job, ya have to converse with the customer, to get their decisions.
These aspects are true with every profession though, one has to do any job to completely understand and appreciate it.
Very true about the scheduling that some mentioned on this thread. There are always shifting of jobs and unforeseen things happen etc.
Also, the last 3 jobs for referrals is a great idea. That could be a standard throughout the trades. Although my business is so small that referrals arent common for me.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

NACE said:


> And don't come into the store, pick colors off the chip rack, take a stack of color cards, ask me for advice on how to re-stain your deck, then scoot to Depot, buy the stain, and come back the following weekend and complain the stuff was garbage and ask me to match their crappy match and complain about the price at 6:55 when we are 5 minutes to close on a Sunday. And you have a graduation party and need it done NOW!


The biggest problem I had working at a BM dealer was that we were more of a color library than a paint store. People came in and got the color chip they saw in a magazine and bee-lined to the Home Depot. To he** with the local stores.


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## Delta Painting (Apr 27, 2010)

My time is just as valuable as yours...


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

I am finishing the work done by the hack carpenters you hired because they're cheap. I am not inspecting it or fixing it, or coming to tell you every mistake they've made so you can tell them to come back and fix it.

You hired them, you keep an eye on them if they can't be trusted to do good work. I don't want to just slop paint over everything they've screwed up only to have you come to me later complaining.


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

I was just reading RH's thread about keeping good records. I was fixated on all that shelving and those brackets, loose anchors, etc. 

One thing I really wish more customers would understand is that, as much as painters, we are by default assemblers/dis-assemblers of so many items. Part of our bids have to account for the time and hassle it takes to remove and put back (properly and without damaging) so many things, such as:

light fixtures
ceiling fans
door knobs
hinges
receptacle plates
computer/phone cables, wires
freaking hanging pictures
mirrors
shelving
closet doors (like those bi-fold types)
moving heavy items such as refrigerators

I'm sure I'm just scratching the surface. And I'm not even mentioning the masking/covering aspects necessary for safely completing the painting.

There is a built-in risk factor when removing certain items, and I would like to think customers would appreciate that we try our best to remove brackets, nuts, etc. without doing any damage. Sometimes those anchors come out with the bolts, sometimes those nuts are frozen and are a real pain to get loose. That isn't our fault.

It can take considerably more time than we initially thought to re-install items such as shelving when such problems arise. We have to be part carpenter and electrician (at the very least) in order to be a painter. Painters are more than what they seem folks. Try and see our side of things and you will better understand why we have to charge more than what you think we should charge. It isn't just about slopping some paint on something.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

SemiproJohn said:


> I was just reading RH's thread about keeping good records. I was fixated on all that shelving and those brackets, loose anchors, etc.
> 
> One thing I really wish more customers would understand is that, as much as painters, we are by default assemblers/dis-assemblers of so many items. Part of our bids have to account for the time and hassle it takes to remove and put back (properly and without damaging) so many things, such as:
> 
> ...


let's not forget plumbing


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## Grateful_Monk (Jul 17, 2012)

You can't get rid of bad drywall seams with a coat of paint.


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

chrisn said:


> let's not forget plumbing


That's my least favorite part of all. Murphy's Law manifests itself most frequently when plumbing is involved. In my experience, anyway.


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

jpcarr79 said:


> That using a spotlight and/or magnifying glass to inspect is unreasonable. PDCA says 39 inch's in regular lighting. Don't blame me for your sheetrocker/mudder or cabinet maker.


I was thinking about this recently. Last month a very nice--but clueless--client had me repaint his master bath. "Orange, I want to make it sunny and happy in here. Do you think orange would look nice? My girlfriend said everybody she knows uses Benjamin Moore. Is that a good paint?"

That was all I could get out of him. Bathroom hadn't been painted in 20+ years and was all monotone antique white--walls, ceiling, cabinets, window, door, base, crown, chair rail, radiator, etc.

Did he really want _everything_ orange, or just the walls orange and the rest white? Walls and ceiling? Walls and cabinets orange, everything else white? He couldn't tell me.

How was I going to talk BM good, better, best options with this guy--never mind explain sheen options?

Exasperated, I ultimately just had to start the project, T&M, not knowing exactly where it was leading, and gently nudging him at each point when a decision had to be made. It ended well, but got me wishing my client base had a better basic understanding of the process/options. 

But then on the other end of the spectrum is the person who whips out a spotlight and noses up to the trim, thinking they are highly informed. I don't know which is worse, or what a happy medium might look like.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

I paint paint said:


> I was thinking about this recently. Last month a very nice--but clueless--client had me repaint his master bath. "Orange, I want to make it sunny and happy in here. Do you think orange would look nice? My girlfriend said everybody she knows uses Benjamin Moore. Is that a good paint?"
> 
> That was all I could get out of him. Bathroom hadn't been painted in 20+ years and was all monotone antique white--walls, ceiling, cabinets, window, door, base, crown, chair rail, radiator, etc.
> 
> ...


Don't forget the clients/customers that bust out the latest consumer reports paint ratings to tell you which paint you are going to use/sell.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

I paint paint said:


> I was thinking about this recently. Last month a very nice--but clueless--client had me repaint his master bath. "Orange, I want to make it sunny and happy in here. Do you think orange would look nice? My girlfriend said everybody she knows uses Benjamin Moore. Is that a good paint?"
> 
> That was all I could get out of him. Bathroom hadn't been painted in 20+ years and was all monotone antique white--walls, ceiling, cabinets, window, door, base, crown, chair rail, radiator, etc.
> 
> ...


Those are the situations where you simply tell the customer "Well, give me a call when you have the colours sorted out and I'll pick up the BM paint because that's all I use. You might try and secure your colour choices to a short range and get some tester pots and try them out. Once you have nailed it down to one, we can get started."

I'd never waste much time with a customer who hasn't even decided on colours. You push them to hard and you end up with a repaint.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

For those customers who don't have any taste (not meaning they have bad taste, but absolutely NO taste or any idea of their own) it would behoove us to be knowledgeable of what yearly color trends have been dictated by those who have declared themselves to predict what the general populace will want. 

Some folks will listen to ANYone who sounds like they know what they are talking about, and since they are clueless, will be happy if they think they took well founded advice - they are easily convinced. 

If you are aware of the latest "trends", you can make a room look "up to date" and well coordinated, without imposing your personal taste on the client. 

Remember, there are people who seriously do not have strong preferences of color.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

daArch said:


> For those customers who don't have any taste (not meaning they have bad taste, but absolutely NO taste or any idea of their own) it would behoove us to be knowledgeable of what yearly color trends have been dictated by those who have declared themselves to predict what the general populace will want.
> 
> Some folks will listen to ANYone who sounds like they know what they are talking about, and since they are clueless, will be happy if they think they took well founded advice - they are easily convinced.
> 
> ...


While I agree to an extent, I still refuse to stay out of the colour choice process for the most part. I might tell someone what range has been trending, but that's it.

I agree that some people will be happy if they think they took well founded advice and they are easily convinced. However, that easy convincing can backfire badly when they have friends over to see their freshly painted first floor and they are easily convinced by their friends who don't like the colour choice. Then they're calling whining that you gave them bad advice. Their friends are their friends, you're just the painter who they gave a bunch of money to.

I dunno, it's just part of the process I tend to stay away from. If someone asks if 'Kermit the frog' green would look nice in their living room, I'd probably say "It's not something I would choose, but if you like it we can get a tester and we'll see how you like it."


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Wildbill7145 said:


> While I agree to an extent, I still refuse to stay out of the colour choice process for the most part. I might tell someone what range has been trending, but that's it.
> 
> I agree that some people will be happy if they think they took well founded advice and they are easily convinced. However, that easy convincing can backfire badly when they have friends over to see their freshly painted first floor and they are easily convinced by their friends who don't like the colour choice. Then they're calling whining that you gave them bad advice. Their friends are their friends, you're just the painter who they gave a bunch of money to.
> 
> I dunno, it's just part of the process I tend to stay away from. If someone asks if 'Kermit the frog' green would look nice in their living room, I'd probably say "It's not something I would choose, but if you like it we can get a tester and we'll see how you like it."


Absolutely that those types of people are capable and prone of being influenced and unsure of any choice they have made and will blame you for suggesting it. To circumvent the blame being put on you, make sure they understand that you are just suggesting "trends" as defined by the self appointed experts. 

And then question their choice of friends for being so rude as to criticize their choice of colors. With friends like that, who needs in-laws ??? :whistling2:


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

daArch said:


> For those customers who don't have any taste (not meaning they have bad taste, but absolutely NO taste or any idea of their own) it would behoove us to be knowledgeable of what yearly color trends have been dictated by those who have declared themselves to predict what the general populace will want.
> 
> Some folks will listen to ANYone who sounds like they know what they are talking about, and since they are clueless, will be happy if they think they took well founded advice - they are easily convinced.
> 
> ...


 Most paint brands have a yearly "trends" brochure which is a good place to steer clients/customers that haven't a clue what color they want.


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

Thanks Wildbill & Arch for the advice.

And you two were simply discussing how involved the color decision can be.

That is just the start with many clients. Then you have to invoke trends, design experts, traditional practice with where that color should go, and in which sheen. How to treat walls from ceilings from trim. Why formal dining rooms are not kitchens, etc.

Navigating the line between presenting options and overwhelming a client is often difficult to manage. But this is not news, I know.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

I guess I've just found that over the years, I give general information about sheens/products for everything to be painted. Give them their options, with general suggestions regarding this and leave it at that.

Let them think about it and make a choice. If they come back saying they want semigloss walls and ceilings, I throw up a very cautionary "Whoa! You sure?" and explain why that's a bad idea. At this point, I've done this process so many times I rarely have any one balk at my recommendations.

Confidence in your knowledge, breeds confidence in you.

I certainly want all of these decisions made prior to my showing up to doing anything though. If it's not decided upon, I won't be there.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

One of my customers put in her review of us that we made, "gentle" color suggestions. We've used that line with many other customers since then; 

*customer:* "Do you help with color selections?"

*us:* "Well, we may make gentle suggestions about colors, or share our opinion if asked, but the ultimate decision has to be yours."


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

I remind them that taste is totally individual, it's their home to do with what they like, and that WHATEVER they choose will look great from my house. :whistling2:

NOW, if one doesn't want to get in the process and hassle of helping a HO choose color (which can be a REAL PITA) there are always decorators/designers/decorinas and color consultants willing to help them. 

And then there was the woman for whom I had work so long that I knew her taste and could very successfully choose wallpaper and colors for her. Those situations are rare, though.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

daArch said:


> NOW, if one doesn't want to get in the process and hassle of helping a HO choose color (which can be a REAL PITA) there are always decorators/designers/decorinas and color consultants willing to help them.


Bang on. How can you charge for that process anyways? One person could take half an hour to figure out the colours for their entire house and another person could take days making changes, etc.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

In the same vein as the last posts, I wish homeowners, or anyone requesting a paint job, would understand that color coordination and design is generally a learned discipline, and therefore, should be under the guidence of a professional "designer". 

I'm doing a project right now that my supervisor (not from a painting discipline) allowed the occupants of a particular building, to choose colors. Unfortunately, the job is being delayed by their indicisiveness. Had a designer been relied on, I'm certain things would have gone smoother, and colors would match the arcithectual intent of the building rather than the individuals sensibilities.


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

CApainter said:


> ...snip...
> 
> I'm doing a project right now that my supervisor (not from a painting discipline) allowed the occupants of a particular building, to choose colors. Unfortunately, the job is being delayed by their indicisiveness. *Had a designer been relied on, I'm certain things would have gone smoother,* and colors would match the arcithectual intent of the building rather than the individuals sensibilities.


Had a designer that charged by the hour been relied on, I'm certain things would have gone much quicker!


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Bang on. How can you charge for that process anyways? One person could take half an hour to figure out the colours for their entire house and another person could take days making changes, etc.


We typically include an allowance...X number of samples.


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

I do quite a bit of work for a realtor who prides himself in choosing "trendy" colors for exteriors, and he is quite of fond of using at least 4 different colors. He grabs the brochures from Sherwin Williams and tries to coordinate colors from two or three different houses in the brochure (body, accent, and trim, which he thinks needs two different colors). 

On the exterior I'm doing for him presently, I'm just about finished with the body color, and he still cannot make up his mind about two of the three other colors. I've put some samples up for him to look at. One day it's "Use that color for the upper trim. Use this color for just the shutters and the front door." The next morning he comes by and flips the colors, which is fine. Later in the afternoon he tells me he still isn't sure, and is considering yet another color. I'm going nuts. I keep telling him that there isn't a problem but he needs to have his mind made up the day before I'm done with the body. He says no problem, then commences to waste yet more of my time by asking me what I think. I've already told him what I think...that each color he has considered complements the others, so I don't see any problem. Just commit. In fact, I went Johnny Cochran on him and kept telling him, "If the colors fit, you must commit, if the colors fit, you must commit." He laughed and told me that he would sleep on it. Yikes. By the way, he drives a bright yellow Saab, loves wearing blue and yellow clothing, or terra cotta and green clothing, or purple clothing. A real flashy guy. Hopefully I will have the final colors tomorrow. Hopefully.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

SemiproJohn said:


> I do quite a bit of work for a realtor who prides himself in choosing "trendy" colors for exteriors, and he is quite of fond of using at least 4 different colors. He grabs the brochures from Sherwin Williams and tries to coordinate colors from two or three different houses in the brochure (body, accent, and trim, which he thinks needs two different colors).
> 
> On the exterior I'm doing for him presently, I'm just about finished with the body color, and he still cannot make up his mind about two of the three other colors. I've put some samples up for him to look at. One day it's "Use that color for the upper trim. Use this color for just the shutters and the front door." The next morning he comes by and flips the colors, which is fine. Later in the afternoon he tells me he still isn't sure, and is considering yet another color. I'm going nuts. I keep telling him that there isn't a problem but he needs to have his mind made up the day before I'm done with the body. He says no problem, then commences to waste yet more of my time by asking me what I think. I've already told him what I think...that each color he has considered complements the others, so I don't see any problem. Just commit. In fact, I went Johnny Cochran on him and kept telling him, "If the colors fit, you must commit, if the colors fit, you must commit." He laughed and told me that he would sleep on it. Yikes. By the way, he drives a bright yellow Saab, loves wearing blue and yellow clothing, or terra cotta and green clothing, or purple clothing. A real flashy guy. Hopefully I will have the final colors tomorrow. Hopefully.


I tend to be a bit flexible about color decisions and when they have to be made. So far I haven't had any major issue because of it. Some people just need to see one of the colors in place before they can decide on the rest. But I guess you could try what some here do - don't start until he has signed off on the final color selection. Of course that could affect your future working relationship with him.


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

RH said:


> i tend to be a bit flexible about color decisions and when they have to be made and so far I haven't had any major issues. Some people just need to see one of the colors in place before they can decide on the rest. But I guess you could try what some here do - don't start until he has signed off on the final color selection. Of course that could affect your future working relationship with him.


I sarcastically threatened him with the sign-off last week. He looked incredulously at me and played the innocent game. Today I told him the importance of him committing to colors by tomorrow afternoon. I guess I will find out if he deems this important to him.


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## madochio (Oct 26, 2011)

here is my rant.
yes I am a retailer 

1. please stop asking me what painters charge for I have no idea.
2. stop asking me to give you a discount because you are buying a large amount ( 3-4 gallons)
3. stop complaining about why qts are not 1/4 the price of a the gallons and NO there is not a 1/2 gallon
4. just because I do not look busy that I am not and tell me about your cats issue with her food ( last week)
5. designers please stop asking me to design a color theme for YOUR client and then telling them you did it and charge them for your time
6. We are open for 12 hours do not come in at 5 min to close and pick your colors for the whole house.
I can keep going..... but now my blood pressure is getting higher


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

madochio said:


> here is my rant.
> yes I am a retailer
> 
> 1. please stop asking me what painters charge for I have no idea.
> ...


I'm with ya. Hang in there!


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Boy, you store guys are a highly-strung bunch. :yes:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

madochio said:


> here is my rant.
> yes I am a retailer
> 
> 1. please stop asking me what painters charge for I have no idea.
> ...



LOVE when Suzie would come in 5 minutes before closing to pick wallpaper 

#7: Don't wait outside the door until there are five other customers and then all enter at the same time each NEEDING custom colors matched in 3 minutes. 

#8: NO customers are NOT allowed on my side of the counter

#9: Those large counters in the wallpaper section are NOT baby changing tables


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

daArch said:


> I remind them that taste is totally individual, it's their home to do with what they like, and that WHATEVER they choose will look great from my house. :whistling2:
> 
> NOW, if one doesn't want to get in the process and hassle of helping a HO choose color (which can be a REAL PITA) there are always decorators/designers/decorinas and color consultants willing to help them.
> 
> And then there was the woman for whom I had work so long that I knew her taste and could very successfully choose wallpaper and colors for her. Those situations are rare, though.


Talk about rare. I had not one but two different ladies pick colors from my PPG fan deck last week. It took each of them about 3 seconds to make a decision. Now THAT is rare


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## madochio (Oct 26, 2011)

#9: Those large counters in the wallpaper section are NOT baby changing tables[/QUOTE]


that is a new one :blink:

10. ( I will add one more per last night) do not bring in the painting contract that you signed for said job and then ask if I think that it is a fair deal :no:


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

RH said:


> Boy, you store guys are a highly-strung bunch. :yes:


We have good days and bad days. Just remember, where you painters may deal with 3-4 customers a day, we can deal with 50-60 on a good day.(I wish) We deal with a lot of personalities and intellect levels in an average day and It can get pretty frustrating. It's nice to be able to vent at a site where there are other people that can understand our problems. Plus, getting it out of our system helps us be able to bury it before the next customer.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

madochio said:


> #9: Those large counters in the wallpaper section are NOT baby changing tables



that is a new one :blink:

10. ( I will add one more per last night) do not bring in the painting contract that you signed for said job and then ask if I think that it is a fair deal :no:[/QUOTE]

11. The Pratt and Lambert floor mat in front of my door is not there for your new puppy to crap on! (as much as I love animals!) Funny thing is, it was my P&L salesman's puppy!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

RH said:


> One of my customers put in her review of us that we made, "gentle" color suggestions. We've used that line with many other customers since then;
> 
> *customer:* "Do you help with color selections?"
> 
> *us:* "Well, we may make gentle suggestions about colors, or share our opinion if asked, but the ultimate decision has to be yours."


Well sure I do, but if I was any good at it I'd be making $100.00 hour doing it!


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I'm probably not the best store customer. It seems that often times, the clerks are either indifferent to my needs, or are impatient and mad. Unfortunately, I take this personally, and tension develops. 

I'm also not one to be all slap happy and telling jokes, because I usually don't have a lot of time for chit chat, and I'm considerate of the clerks time. I find calling in my order and having it delivered works the best. My current supplier is awesome like that. If I can only get him to email me the receipts.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> I'm probably not the best store customer. It seems that often times, the clerks are either indifferent to my needs, or are impatient and mad. Unfortunately, I take this personally, and tension develops.
> 
> I'm also not one to be all slap happy and telling jokes, because I usually don't have a lot of time for chit chat, and I'm considerate of the clerks time. I find calling in my order and having it delivered works the best. My current supplier is awesome like that. If I can only get him to email me the receipts.


That's because they don't have a good place to vent! As far as indifferent, there is no excuse as far as I'm concerned. Actually, there is no excuse to ever be anything but 100% accommodating and cordial to any customer! Sometimes you gotta suck it up and be a great actor but that's what you have to do. And no matter how busy a sales clerk or store manager is, their time is NEVER as valuable as the customers time.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Proalliance coatings said:


> We have good days and bad days. Just remember, where you painters may deal with 3-4 customers a day, we can deal with 50-60 on a good day.(I wish) We deal with a lot of personalities and intellect levels in an average day and It can get pretty frustrating. It's nice to be able to vent at a site where there are other people that can understand our problems. Plus, getting it out of our system helps us be able to bury it before the next customer.


 
I am lucky? to deal with 3 or 4 a MONTH not a day. I doubt any of us are dealing with more than one a day(usually), but I get your point.


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

chrisn said:


> I am lucky? to deal with 3 or 4 a MONTH not a day. I doubt any of us are dealing with more than one a day(usually), but I get your point.


Are you counting telephone calls and emails along with your face to face dealings?

On a resi repaint, don't you find that it is common to have the same conversation with HO spouses separately, where they aren't on the same page?

What about the elderly client where adult children swoop in mid project to get the run down?

They all add up for me. Weekdays. Nights. Weekends. National holidays.

Like a post office worker--IT JUST NEVER STOPS!


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

I paint paint;788578[COLOR=red said:


> ]Are you counting telephone calls and emails along with your face to face dealings?[/COLOR]
> 
> On a resi repaint, don't you find that it is common to have the same conversation with HO spouses separately, where they aren't on the same page?
> 
> ...


no
no
no


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## Right Source (Oct 24, 2014)

I wish just once a homeowner understood the years it takes to learn and refine the craft of painting, the cost required to run a business and maybe more importantly the pride a professional painter takes in what we do.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Just remember, a retailer can't go work behind a house or behind a closed door if he's feeling a bit cranky that day. They gotta be friendly and courteous EVERY day, ALL day. Even to the assholes.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

I wish homeowners understood that we have to stick our noses down next to and behind the toilet.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Right Source said:


> I wish just once a homeowner understood the years it takes to learn and refine the craft of painting, the cost required to run a business and maybe more importantly the pride a professional painter takes in what we do.


Now that is wishful thinking!:thumbup:

Most homeowners are about as indifferent to a painters plight as they are to a dog crapping on their neighbor's lawn.


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

Yes we work around toilets forca heck of alot less then plumbers.


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