# I'm in the beginnings of restaining. help?



## [email protected]

Here are the pics:

http://picasaweb.google.com/agapepainting.net/RestainingDeck

I have come to the conclusion that this stain in the pick is crap. I will need suggestions as to what brand would best fit the needs of this deck and what is the best procedure for stripping/brightening (I'm sub-n this part out, but want to be informed by the pro's so that I am not completely ignorant of how it's done). 

Ken, I understand your WoodZotic is undergoing some restructuring (manufacturer), but do you have any suggestions as to a quality product if I cannot order and receive WoodZotic by the end of next week? I am excited about the Restore-A-Deck and when it is available I'll order. For now I am sub-n the cleaning but I will apply the stain. 

Thanks

J


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## timhag

Jason, did your guy clean the deck already?


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## [email protected]

not yet, he will tomorrow.


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## timhag

[email protected] said:


> not yet, he will tomorrow.


Ok, i have my way of doing decks but, I'll wait to see what the others say due to not doing many of them. This thread may help me also. :thumbsup:


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## [email protected]

timhag said:


> Ok, i have my way of doing decks but, I'll wait to see what the others say due to not doing many of them. This thread may help me also. :thumbsup:


I have only stained two decks ever... I'm with ya there as for not doing many... So far I am having fun and want to do this deck well considering they are paying $1100 for it. I hope that isn't a bad price... if my figures are right it will be worth it. I hosed myself on my first deck that was bigger than this and charged $200...... no comments please.... LOL..

J


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## timhag

Jason, looks like there is less than 8 working hours over a three day period. $1100.00 looks good to me.


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## [email protected]

My sub is a personal friend that started 2 years ago in Pressure Washing. They have stripped and brightened a couple decks for me, one successfully and the other not so... They are friends and I count the cost of error when I sub them out because they do not know all involved but have the basic concepts down. So, with that, I don't mind using them to give them more training and knowlege in this area of pressure washing. I did mention that I wanted ALL of the stain removed and would fork out some more cash if they needed to take more time to do so, so far they are charging me $267.00 for the stripping and brightening. 

With that bit of history, I hope I can learn something from folks here and while I am watching these guys work tomorrow I can ask for or suggest options if I don't see it working like I want.


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## vermontpainter

Jason

I'm surprised to hear that you are subbing out the washing...for a couple of reasons. First, its fun. Second, you were just saying the other day in another thread that its been very slow for you. If thats the case, I wouldnt be out there watching them do the work. I'd be the guy with the gun! Its a noble gesture to give work to friends, but if its work you can do and you need it, you gotta hang on to it! :thumbsup:


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## dincao

What type of stain are you going to use, solid, semi, clear? it looks like there is almost a solid or semi on there now,not a clear?


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## [email protected]

vermontpainter said:


> Jason
> 
> I'm surprised to hear that you are subbing out the washing...for a couple of reasons. First, its fun. Second, you were just saying the other day in another thread that its been very slow for you. If thats the case, I wouldnt be out there watching them do the work. I'd be the guy with the gun! Its a noble gesture to give work to friends, but if its work you can do and you need it, you gotta hang on to it! :thumbsup:


Yes this is true. I have thought about it. And ...... thought about it... and.... decided I want to learn the process from those who do it before I jump into it. My subs are great guys and I don't mind the personal investment into them to receive what I need for the future. But your right, it is slow and I probably would have done fine myself. I like investing into people sometimes and this is just one of those ways.... Thanks!


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## [email protected]

dincao said:


> What type of stain are you going to use, solid, semi, clear? it looks like there is almost a solid or semi on there now,not a clear?


That can says "Clear". I will reapply a clear, just not sure what the best product is.


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## vermontpainter

Sometimes thats the best way to learn...just do it! Start in the least visible area and learn quick. I do hear what your saying though.


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## NEPS.US

I understand why .... If he's not sure how to do it he can have his friend do it right and learn from it with out losing his shirt ...Hey J ...was that you with the floor attachment...did you buy it? how did you like it?


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## timhag

dincao said:


> What type of stain are you going to use, solid, semi, clear? it looks like there is almost a solid or semi on there now,not a clear?


Looks like a semi to me D, I know it's not a clear.


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## vermontpainter

NEPS.US said:


> I understand why .... If he's not sure how to do it he can have his friend do it right and learn from it with out losing his shirt ...Hey J ...was that you with the floor attachment...did you buy it? how did you like it?


Hey...be careful. Me and Timhag dont want the whole world finding out that you're actually a pretty nice guy...


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## MAK-Deco

vermontpainter said:


> Jason
> 
> I'm surprised to hear that you are subbing out the washing...for a couple of reasons. First, its fun. Second, you were just saying the other day in another thread that its been very slow for you. If thats the case, I wouldnt be out there watching them do the work. I'd be the guy with the gun! Its a noble gesture to give work to friends, but if its work you can do and you need it, you gotta hang on to it! :thumbsup:


You beat me to it Scott thats what I was thinking. 

267$ is way cheap to be stripping a deck especially with railings I wouldn't strip it for that price.


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## timhag

vermontpainter said:


> Hey...be careful. Me and Timhag dont want the whole world finding out that you're actually a pretty nice guy...


He is a cool cat.....huh???


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## NEPS.US

[email protected] said:


> That can says "Clear". I will reapply a clear, just not sure what the best product is.


I'd bet that can is not the last thing on there. Looks more like a semi ..... .. you may want to look at the Sikkens SRD line ...good for decks without alot of air flow (see how low it is to the ground ...moisture gets built up under there) and good for when you can only apply to 1 side ...


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## [email protected]

timhag said:


> Looks like a semi to me D, I know it's not a clear.


Could it be multiple coats of clear? I know it is dark and the HO says that is the product... I hope it's clear, if it isn't then I am still using clear because that is what the can says.


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## timhag

When we are talking about clear, does this product have no color at all? The pics look like a beat up red wood stain to me.


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## MAK-Deco

I was thinking Sikkens SRD or Cabots CS not sure if its out on west coast or not. CWF used to be great 10-15 years ago no its some kind of advanced alkyd formula that forms a film and to thin of one in my opinion there colors are clears with a a little tone to it. But it doesn't penetrate very well at all.


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## vermontpainter

timhag said:


> He is a cool cat.....huh???


One of the coolest around...


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## [email protected]

NEPS.US said:


> I understand why .... If he's not sure how to do it he can have his friend do it right and learn from it with out losing his shirt ...Hey J ...was that you with the floor attachment...did you buy it? how did you like it?


If your talking about this surface cleaner:

http://picasaweb.google.com/agapepainting.net/PressureWashing

Yes that is me and yes I did buy that thing and LOVE it. Takes me less than a half hour to do a standard 600sqft drive way. Just did one today as a freebie for a home I am painting in two weeks.


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## timhag

[email protected] said:


> . Just did one today as a freebie for a home I am painting in two weeks.


Why are you giving away work brother Jason?


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## NEPS.US

[email protected] said:


> If your talking about this surface cleaner:
> 
> http://picasaweb.google.com/agapepainting.net/PressureWashing
> 
> Yes that is me and yes I did buy that thing and LOVE it. Takes me less than a half hour to do a standard 600sqft drive way. Just did one today as a freebie for a home I am painting in two weeks.


very cool ...you just jumped up a few knotches in my book....I've been thinking of getting one .... me have tool envy!


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## vermontpainter

[email protected] said:


> If your talking about this surface cleaner:
> 
> http://picasaweb.google.com/agapepainting.net/PressureWashing
> 
> Yes that is me and yes I did buy that thing and LOVE it. Takes me less than a half hour to do a standard 600sqft drive way. Just did one today as a freebie for a home I am painting in two weeks.


 
Jason

You are a saint. Slow, giving work to friends, and doing a freebie. I am not kidding when I tell you that this will all come back to you threefold.

That is a sweet looking rig.


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## NEPS.US

vermontpainter said:


> One of the coolest around...


My friend's call me TC ..Top Cat


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## MAK-Deco

http://www.flood.com/flood/Products/Exterior/FinishersForExteriorWood/CWF-UV+Product+Page.htm

if you look at info there's a clear, cedar, redwood and others. I don't think its clear.


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## [email protected]

timhag said:


> When we are talking about clear, does this product have no color at all? The pics look like a beat up red wood stain to me.


I opened the can and it looks like a milky cedar-ish color, I wonder if it dries clear???.... pic coming soon.. hang on...


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## timhag

[email protected] said:


> I opened the can and it looks like a milky cedar-ish color, I wonder if it dries clear???.... pic coming soon.. hang on...


Jason, I was just saying that whats on that deck now is not a clear. I know you want to apply a clear after stripping. Maybe I am not understanding.


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## NEPS.US

get the thing stripped ..and use Sikkens SRD natural


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## MAK-Deco

[email protected] said:


> I opened the can and it looks like a milky cedar-ish color, I wonder if it dries clear???.... pic coming soon.. hang on...


all tho it says clear finish in the pic of your can look down to the right? white box on the side looks like it may give color there, if it says clear then that what's in that can anyways.


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## vermontpainter

timhag said:


> Maybe I am not understanding.


:blink:


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## [email protected]

timhag said:


> Jason, I was just saying that whats on that deck now is not a clear. I know you want to apply a clear after stripping. Maybe I am not understanding.


I understand... I am just trying to help you all figure this out. Why does the can say "Clear" if it isn't? I am not so sure why it's important but it seems to be and I am just coming up with the facts.  All is good. 

here is what the contents of the can looks like:
http://picasaweb.google.com/agapepainting.net/RestainingDeck

J


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## vermontpainter

Painters helping painters...thats what its all about.

By the way, NEPS, if you are going to stop by my profile I would appreciate if you would sign my guestbook.


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## timhag

Whats the label on the right bottom of the can say? Is there a label on the lid? maybe they mixed some color in the can.


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## NEPS.US

me think that aint no clear stuff in their


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## timhag

NEPS.US said:


> me think that aint no clear stuff in their


:yes::yes::yes::yes:


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## [email protected]

timhag said:


> Whats the label on the right bottom of the can say? Is there a label on the lid? maybe they mixed some color in the can.


I looked for one... nothing. That white label to the lower right that is printed from factory says "Clear". That is why I think it dries clear... gunna go apply it to some cedar shake.... brb...

J


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## vermontpainter

NEPS.US said:


> get the thing stripped ..and use Sikkens SRD natural


 
definitely get the thing stripped, and use something!


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## vermontpainter

[email protected] said:


> I looked for one... nothing. That white label to the lower right that is printed from factory says "Clear". That is why I think it dries clear... gunna go apply it to some cedar shake.... brb...
> 
> J


Hey J

The least you could do is order a pizza for us fools whilest we wait


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## dincao

If the stripping is not done right and there is stain still left the clear is not going to look right!! And you're right it looks like some beat up old red stain to me too, TIM!!!


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## MAK-Deco

looks like cwf-uv cedar. Unfortunately I think CWF is using the word clear instead of translucent.


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## MAK-Deco

heres Sikkens SRD Natural on a cleaned stripped brightened cedar deck 

http://www.painttalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1067&d=1211243002


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## vermontpainter

Actually it looks to me like vintage 90's Murdochs Oil Top Stain in Walnut which fades to look like redwood.


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## [email protected]

vermontpainter said:


> definitely get the thing stripped, and use something!


lol....


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## vermontpainter

How long you guys think its gonna take for Jason to go stain a piece, dry it, photograph it and get it out here for us to inspect? 

Its ok, I can clean the crap from under my fingernails here for a few...


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## NEPS.US

vermontpainter said:


> How long you guys think its gonna take for Jason to go stain a piece, dry it, photograph it and get it out here for us to inspect?
> 
> Its ok, I can clean the crap from under my fingernails here for a few...


who cares ...It looks like we are working and our wives are off our asses ...she's going to bed in 15 minutes ...J ...TAKE YOUR TIME!!!!


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## vermontpainter

well if you put it that way, I can run out to the shop and smoke a cigar and stain up a few shakes with different colors and you guys can try to guess what I put on


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## [email protected]

vermontpainter said:


> How long you guys think its gonna take for Jason to go stain a piece, dry it, photograph it and get it out here for us to inspect?
> 
> Its ok, I can clean the crap from under my fingernails here for a few...



LOL...

Here ya go:
http://picasaweb.google.com/agapepainting.net/RestainingDeck

It will dry clear.... interesting... kinda like Peel Bond....


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## MAK-Deco

You gotta remember he is on west coast its the middle of the afternoon still.


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## MAK-Deco

Thats is not what is on the deck if it is its multiple coats (without cleaning well) and that's why it started flaking. or peeling


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## dincao

Not trying to get off topic but speaking of stains have any of you guys tried Messmers uv plus??? not many people carry in ny but i was able to buy it in ct, it was for a Mahagony deck i did last year it was great stuff....


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## [email protected]

MAK-Deco said:


> Thats is not what is on the deck if it is its multiple coats (without cleaning well) and that's why it started flaking. or peeling


That's what I am thinking... good call.


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## NEPS.US

MAK-Deco said:


> Thats is not what is on the deck if it is its multiple coats (without cleaning well) and that's why it started flaking. or peeling


Or it's just not formulated for that type of deck ...most deck stains are supposed to be applied to all 6 sides of the board and have proper ventilation under the deck to prevent moisture build up. If not you will get alligatoring and lifting. Strip it and use SRD!


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## [email protected]

timhag said:


> Why are you giving away work brother Jason?


It's free because this HO is the second one that I have done a driveway for and I need some pictures and experience: Labor, cost and materials. Plus it's a good and inexpensive way to land a job. :thumbup: Free only last for so long until you know how to offer it at a competitive price (for this situation), in this case a half hour is not much of a loss when your already PW'ing the house. Just plug the cleaner in and go. Done!


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## vermontpainter

I believe what Jason is referring to is a loss leader.


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## [email protected]

[email protected] said:


> I have come to the conclusion that this stain in the pick is crap. I will need suggestions as to what brand would best fit the needs of this deck and what is the best procedure for stripping/brightening.



Any suggestions?


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## [email protected]

vermontpainter said:


> I believe what Jason is referring to is a loss leader.


What is a "loss leader"?


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## vermontpainter

[email protected] said:


> Any suggestions?


Jason

You have been getting suggestions for the past 2 hours! What more can we say!! haha

Like NEP said, strip the darn thing and use MDF


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## vermontpainter

[email protected] said:


> What is a "loss leader"?


Product sold at a low price to stimulate other more profitable sales.


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## NEPS.US

adios


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## vermontpainter

NEPS.US said:


> adios


como?


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## MAK-Deco

vermontpainter said:


> Jason
> 
> You have been getting suggestions for the past 2 hours! What more can we say!! haha
> 
> Like NEP said, strip the darn thing and use MDF


you want him to strip it and lay MDF boards over it ??


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## NEPS.US

**** this ...I'm on a flight to friggin Oregon tonight to put the dam SRD on myself...see ya


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## [email protected]

vermontpainter said:


> Jason
> 
> You have been getting suggestions for the past 2 hours! What more can we say!! haha
> 
> Like NEP said, strip the darn thing and use MDF


Well.... not much about how to strip and what to use.... Only thing suggested was to strip and restain with sikkens... Ok. Now how about some detail in the stripping and brightening? I know... you East coasters are heading to bed soon... must be after 10 and you all have an early start in the morning. Wimps! haha :jester:


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## NEPS.US

[email protected] said:


> Here are the pics:
> 
> http://picasaweb.google.com/agapepainting.net/RestainingDeck
> 
> I have come to the conclusion that this stain in the pick is crap. I will need suggestions as to what brand would best fit the needs of this deck and what is the best procedure for stripping/brightening (I'm sub-n this part out, but want to be informed by the pro's so that I am not completely ignorant of how it's done).
> 
> Ken, I understand your WoodZotic is undergoing some restructuring (manufacturer), but do you have any suggestions as to a quality product if I cannot order and receive WoodZotic by the end of next week? I am excited about the Restore-A-Deck and when it is available I'll order. For now I am sub-n the cleaning but I will apply the stain.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> J


see ...you said here you are subbing the stripping out ...see?


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## vermontpainter

yeah, your friends were going to teach you that part, which I still dont understand...would you take lessons from a painter who has only been painting for 2 years? :jester:


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## [email protected]

[email protected] said:


> I hope I can learn something from folks here and while I am watching these guys work tomorrow I can ask for or suggest options if I don't see it working like I want.



But... but.. but....

Ok fine! :laughing:


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## NEPS.US

[email protected] said:


> But... but.. but....
> 
> Ok fine! :laughing:


see what type of stripping products are available to you .. most will have to be applied with a garden sprayer ..let stand for 10-15 minutes and then pressure wash off. Hopefully it will remove any pigment that clear stuff left behind. If not you may have to use a stain that will hide any pigment. If it all comes off get some info on different stains and how thay are effected by their enviroments and application and use the best for your needs.......how's that?


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## [email protected]

Simple enough, thanks NEPS.

J


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## timhag

MAK-Deco said:


> heres Sikkens SRD Natural on a cleaned stripped brightened cedar deck
> 
> http://www.painttalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1067&d=1211243002


NOW THAT LOOKS LIKE A CLEAR>:yes:


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## [email protected]

That's what this stuff did when I applied it to the cedar shake.... It's milky looking (waterborne) but dries clear like Peel Bond.


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## PressurePros

Jason,

We finally received Restore-A-Deck this week and have secured a new manufacturer for both the cleaners and WoodZotic (which will take another month or so of QC and color refinement). For this particular project I would steer you to something more potent as CWF is a nasty strip. You can see on the closeup the filmy/peeling effect and that is cause by the product containing acrylic/silicone. CWF is not product I would ever recommend to anyone because of it is very unfriendly for maintenance.


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## [email protected]

PressurePros said:


> Jason,
> 
> We finally received Restore-A-Deck this week and have secured a new manufacturer for both the cleaners and WoodZotic (which will take another month or so of QC and color refinement). For this particular project I would steer you to something more potent as CWF is a nasty strip. You can see on the closeup the filmy/peeling effect and that is cause by the product containing acrylic/silicone. CWF is not product I would ever recommend to anyone because of it is very unfriendly for maintenance.


Yay! Good to hear about the new manufacturer!  :thumbup:

Are you saying to use CWF's stripper? Allthough I am going to let the subs do what they know is best and go from there. Another stripper is a great suggestion if I have to end up doing it myself. Can't wait a month for RAD... sorry. Wished I could....

I do agree, not recommending CWF. As you can see the results of the product... :thumbsup:

Thanks Ken


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## MAK-Deco

Hey Ken, do you think it needs HD-80? I don't think efc-38 would budge CWF. All tho its getting stripped soon there may not be time to order HD-80


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## PressurePros

That deck definitely needs a high potency hydroxide based stripper like HD-80.


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## timhag

I just did my deck today ( floor boards only) it's a Red Wood. These are b 4 pics


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## timhag

Here is the after......stain is not completely dry.


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## NEPS.US

I spy Behr deck stain DIY'er


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## timhag

NEPS.US said:


> I spy Behr deck stain DIY'er


You are a smackass.......lol


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## tsunamicontract

hey Ken, how do you figure out what strip to use and where are you getting them? I am totally impressed.


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## [email protected]

Ok.... Pics to come soon. Until then: I had these guys out today to strip this deck. What they were using was not strong enough and was kind of stress-n me... I call SW paint rep, he explains that they used to carry the CWF product and has the perfect stripper. So, I pick up this Deckscapes Stain and Sealer remover. The Subs apply it, it'w working and works REALLY well. Hardly any scrubbing needed, the warm water pressure pushed it all off the deck. But I have some questions.... I'll get the pics up first before the questions. The product was a dioxide, I want to say Sodium... Confirmed: http://www.paintdocs.com/webmsds/webPDF.jsp?SITEID=STORECAT&prodno=640359949&doctype=MSDS〈=E
Brb.... my stress lvl is a bit more than normal and I am a pretty layed back guy...


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## [email protected]

Here are the results of the stripping:

http://picasaweb.google.com/agapepainting.net/RestainingDeck

I am a rookie to this Deck stuff.... but when you start this process shouldn't it be finished the same day? My sub says he may not be able to show back till next Friday to finish... I'm thinking... forget that, I'll finish it, but I have so much on my plate now that I am not sure how to squeeze it in.... It needs more work and from what I understand is that they diluted the brightener to stretch it out because they didn't have enough... oh my goodness.... SW is less than half a block away from this house and they quit before it SW closed.... so, needless to say, next time I will do it. 

So, is this blotchyness fixable if it waits till next Friday or do I need to rush out and buy a garden sprayer and some more brightener tomorrow morning. What is the issue and how severe is it? 

Oh and btw... the lower section of the deck didnt get brightener... What do you say about that? It was rinsed well, but not brightened. What will a week of this result in? it will dry out before Friday


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## MAK-Deco

Looks like to me the whole thing didn't get a brightener or neutralized. I have never seen Sodium Hydroxide turn anything that blotchy before


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## [email protected]

I think my main concern is; can I wait for these guys to show back up next Friday or should I rush out tomorrow and reapply the brightener/neutralizer?

They will need to reapply the remover in some areas....


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## johnthepainter

the guys you were going to watch and learn from, need to watch and learn


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## [email protected]

Nonetheless.... We live and learn. It's not too much out of pocket to finsih myself, it's just time I am concerned about; when and when..... haha..


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## vermontpainter

Jason

This was what I was concerned about when you said you had friends who would do it for $267. Thats a bad scene. You definitely could have done better yourself. 

Theres no excuse for that. They definitely should have had it cleaned and brightened in a day. And you could have been over there applying finish by monday/tuesday. 

No more Mr. Niceguy, Jason!


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## [email protected]

vermontpainter said:


> Jason
> 
> This was what I was concerned about when you said you had friends who would do it for $267. Thats a bad scene. You definitely could have done better yourself.
> 
> Theres no excuse for that. They definitely should have had it cleaned and brightened in a day. And you could have been over there applying finish by monday/tuesday.
> 
> No more Mr. Niceguy, Jason!


Your right in regards to not hiring these guys again.... but I will continue to be Mr. Nice guy. :thumbsup: hehe... I do knwo what your saying VP. 

So, if there is any help here in regards to a some what urgent issue... I could use that. You all can tell me where I went wrong and tell me how to never do it again concerning hiring some rookies to do a job.... but that doesn't help me finsih it. I need to know if this needs more immediate solution (product) so that the wood does not become damaged. It's a small enough deck that I could replace all the floor boards easily in a day, that is the worst case scenario.

The $267 didn't go unnoticed. I offered that they could charge me more if they needed to put a bit more elbow grease into it to get the job done right and this was before they started using the recommended stripper at SW..... At this point, I don't think they care and don't want to finish it. That's ok, because I'm negotiating a no payment or the $267 flat and I'll finish it.


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## [email protected]

Can I go back this morning and reapply the brightener to get rid of the blackness? The HO is having company tomorrow and they are using the deck..... Ughh... My work is looking unsuccessful and that doesn't look good to the neighborhood or her friends that could possibly bring in more work.


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## MAK-Deco

[email protected] said:


> Can I go back this morning and reapply the brightener to get rid of the blackness? The HO is having company tomorrow and they are using the deck..... Ughh... My work is looking unsuccessful and that doesn't look good to the neighborhood or her friends that could possibly bring in more work.


Jason, yes i would go back and try the brightener on a spot as see what it does. I don't think it could hurt at this point.


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## vermontpainter

Jason

Absolutely, get out there and make it right. Its reputation recovery time.


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## PressurePros

Whenever you apply a stripper, brightening/neitralizing is mandatory. Put the acid opn there and you will be fine. It's the wood itself. If you look at the pictures you can see that that the darker pieces are even all the way through they are just darker. Get your acid on then and rinse the hell out of it and you will be ready for re-staining.


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## [email protected]

Your right VP and I was getting dressed as you sent your last post... haha


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## vermontpainter

At least you can get it clean and uniform looking for the weekend, then deal with the finishing next week. This is one of those "paint emergencies" I was discussing in another thread, albeit kind of self-induced. You are doing the right thing to get right on it. Things like this can fester with certain customers.


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## [email protected]

PressurePros said:


> Whenever you apply a stripper, brightening/neitralizing is mandatory. Put the acid opn there and you will be fine. It's the wood itself. If you look at the pictures you can see that that the darker pieces are even all the way through they are just darker. Get your acid on then and rinse the hell out of it and you will be ready for re-staining.


whew! Your a life saver PP! 

On my way! For King and Country! (often said from a trooper when playing Red Alert a PC game)... anyways.

Thanks! :thumbsup:


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## [email protected]API

vermontpainter said:


> At least you can get it clean and uniform looking for the weekend, then deal with the finishing next week. This is one of those "paint emergencies" I was discussing in another thread, albeit kind of self-induced. You are doing the right thing to get right on it. Things like this can fester with certain customers.


I can't agree more.

I started this deck as "This is my Baby" perspective.... Yes I am painting the house too but the deck will get more traffic and visual than the house considering the house isn't changing color like the deck, and nor does the house get the traffic like the deck unless your Spiderman.... LOL... anyways. Your right on as usual VP :thumbup:


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## vermontpainter

Like Ken says, those outdoor spaces really have value...and like you say: painting the good life inside and OUT!


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## johnthepainter

with flood spa-n-deck you finish right after the powerwash,,,,,,the water helps wick in the first coat,,,,and then the topcoat goes on the same day

with this sweet product, you can wash and finish in the same day,,,,,,,,,,great finish,,,one of the best for that smooth furniture type finish


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## MAK-Deco

[email protected] said:


> Your right VP and I was getting dressed as you sent your last post... haha


And my post was 50 minutes earlier what were you doing then? :whistling2:


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## [email protected]

Four more of my hours; done with stripping and brightening:

http://picasaweb.google.com/agapepainting.net/RestainingDeck

Now to sand out the furring and restain. That will be next week.

I'm still paying the sub the $267. He learned something: Not to work for me... LOL... For what my former subs did, I didn't lose much with my own rework... Thank God. Basically I had to go back and strip the areas that were jointed. Where the 2x2's meet at both ends to the railing, the full length of the 2x2's on the back side and where the railing met the house. Some minor areas on the floor near the sliding glass door and in the corner areas... Not all bad... they got the bulk of the work done. I did have to purchase one gal of remover(Deckscape stain and sealer remover) and 3 gal of brightener (Revive by SW) to finish. That is more than I payed them.... That's ok. The stripping and brightening is done and ready for next week if the weather holds up.

Thanks for all your help thus far.

The next step is to sand out the furring and decide what the stain will be. In this topic, Sikkens has been the highly recommended product thus far, outside of WoodZotic (Due to manufacturing issues only). I am still open for suggestions. I will not use any kind of CWF.


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## [email protected]

MAK-Deco said:


> And my post was 50 minutes earlier what were you doing then? :whistling2:


Lets keep private matters to the private... :thumbup: LOL....


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## NEPS.US

Lookin' good J :thumbsup:


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## dincao

Messemers If You Can Get It....anyone Else Ever Use It???


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## vermontpainter

Jason

Looking much better! For the love of God, please do your own washing from now on! Its kind of fun when you have the support and confidence in what you are doing isnt it?


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## dincao

It's starting to look good, well i guess this a big lesson learned for you Jason...considering what you payed the subs, the xtra money on chemicals and the cost of the stain, it doesn't look like you will be making much money on this job....I know that for you that the experience you gained will save you money on the next deck and you will be able to price the job with a better understanding of what needs to be done..I hope you pick the right clear though!!!good luck


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## vermontpainter

Surely, you know I am kidding...


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## NEPS.US

Scott ...you may be kidding ...but look at post 78 .....:jester:


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## johnthepainter

im not a big fan of the sikkens srd,,,,,,

i prefer the Sikkens Cetol DEK

it requires 2 coats, and it needs to be backbrushed, but its all worth it when you see the awesome finish

i have used the srd, and wouldnt use it again.

the cetol dek has been a nice material to maintain,,,,,,,,a very light washing and a fresh coat every year, and it looks like a yacht


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## [email protected]

vermontpainter said:


> Jason
> 
> Looking much better! For the love of God, please do your own washing from now on! Its kind of fun when you have the support and confidence in what you are doing isnt it?


If loving God is as easy as washing my own deck then you have a deal! :jester::thumbsup:

To answer the question: YES! I really enjoyed doing what I did today. I have another lined up as of today, it's a smaller scale deck but it's still cedar and has no hand railing, nor does it have that nasty stain on it... Woot! :thumbup:


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## NEPS.US

johnthepainter said:


> im not a big fan of the sikkens srd,,,,,,
> 
> i prefer the Sikkens Cetol DEK
> 
> it requires 2 coats, and it needs to be backbrushed, but its all worth it when you see the awesome finish
> 
> i have used the srd, and wouldnt use it again.
> 
> the cetol dek has been a nice material to maintain,,,,,,,,a very light washing and a fresh coat every year, and it looks like a yacht


I'm pretty sure DEK is a a six side, proper ventalation system. SRD is a good once a year one coat system that works great when only applied to top side, close to the ground decks.


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## vermontpainter

NEPS.US said:


> Scott ...you may be kidding ...but look at post 78 .....:jester:


I just went and checked out the pics in #78, I saw a Behr can hidden under the deck.


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## [email protected]

Ha! I thought you guys were kidding all this time. First pic on post #78 Lower right corner..... Behr.... LOL... To damn funny.. LOL...

Homey is diss-n us.... Traitor! :jester::laughing:


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## [email protected]

Anyone ever use the Deckscape at SW? 

http://www.sherwin-williams.com/pdf/staining/deckscapes_products.pdf


I have been wanting to try it. It's that or Sikkens....


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## MAK-Deco

johnthepainter said:


> im not a big fan of the sikkens srd,,,,,,
> 
> i prefer the Sikkens Cetol DEK
> 
> it requires 2 coats, and it needs to be backbrushed, but its all worth it when you see the awesome finish
> 
> i have used the srd, and wouldnt use it again.
> 
> the cetol dek has been a nice material to maintain,,,,,,,,a very light washing and a fresh coat every year, and it looks like a yacht


John thats because DEK is satin finish product and to me builds too muck of a film on the deck I would never DEK again because its a pain to maintain when it comes time to redo. SRD penetrates and fades away over time a light washing and one coat and your good to go for another couple of years.


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## MAK-Deco

NEPS.US said:


> I'm pretty sure DEK is a a six side, proper ventalation system. SRD is a good once a year one coat system that works great when only applied to top side, close to the ground decks.


Yes my thoughts exactly, you are correct NEPS


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## MAK-Deco

[email protected] said:


> Ha! I thought you guys were kidding all this time. First pic on post #78 Lower right corner..... Behr.... LOL... To damn funny.. LOL...
> 
> Homey is diss-n us.... Traitor! :jester::laughing:


Post #78 is from Timhag not homey....


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## NEPS.US

[email protected] said:


> Anyone ever use the Deckscape at SW?
> 
> http://www.sherwin-williams.com/pdf/staining/deckscapes_products.pdf
> 
> 
> I have been wanting to try it. It's that or Sikkens....


I have a huge PT deck that wraps aroung the back and the side of my house. The previous owner painted the flooring. I've pressure washed and stripped what I can now today I'm putting Deckscapes Solid Shagbark on it. It's crappy PT so it's a PIA to keep looking nice. I also have a 3 year old Black Lab and my 2 year old son destroy it too.


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## vermontpainter

Before and after pics please...


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## [email protected]

MAK-Deco said:


> Post #78 is from Timhag not homey....


Homey = Home boy, Timhag... That's what I meant when I said that...


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## [email protected]

NEPS.US said:


> I have a huge PT deck that wraps aroung the back and the side of my house. The previous owner painted the flooring. I've pressure washed and stripped what I can now today I'm putting Deckscapes Solid Shagbark on it. It's crappy PT so it's a PIA to keep looking nice. I also have a 3 year old Black Lab and my 2 year old son destroy it too.


I have used Deckscapes Solid, wondering if anyone has used anything else, like the Toner or Semi-Trans...


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## MAK-Deco

[email protected] said:


> Homey = Home boy, Timhag... That's what I meant when I said that...


I didn't want people thinking HomeGaurd (homey) was using Behr


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## [email protected]

Roger that! :thumbsup:


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## johnthepainter

im curious how many people coat six sides,,,,,, ill venture a guess>>>>>not many

six sides for the warranty,,,,not six sides to get them looking great

i read somewhere in this thread where someone wanted a product that lasts

well srd doesnt last,,,,,,,the cetol dek does last

cetol dek needs to be maintained (get your deck customers on a maintenance cycle to save them money over time, and keep their decks looking great)

the downside of the cetol dek is>>>>>>if you dont maintain it, it will be a pita to fix

youll get one season out of srd,,,,,,,,i think that makes customers unhappy


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## tsunamicontract

johnthepainter said:


> well srd doesnt last,,,,,,,the cetol dek does last
> 
> cetol dek needs to be maintained (get your deck customers on a maintenance cycle to save them money over time, and keep their decks looking great)
> 
> the downside of the cetol dek is>>>>>>if you dont maintain it, it will be a pita to fix
> 
> youll get one season out of srd,,,,,,,,i think that makes customers unhappy


dek drives me crazy because it looks so beautiful when you do it right but as soon as it starts to go it is such pita. specially when the boards have cupped a little bit and the bad part is the last place for the sandpaper to hit (pretty much every porch with DEK i have ever seen).

just curious, what is your procedure for using DEK?


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## MAK-Deco

johnthepainter said:


> im curious how many people coat six sides,,,,,, ill venture a guess>>>>>not many
> 
> six sides for the warranty,,,,not six sides to get them looking great
> 
> i read somewhere in this thread where someone wanted a product that lasts
> 
> well srd doesnt last,,,,,,,the cetol dek does last
> 
> cetol dek needs to be maintained (get your deck customers on a maintenance cycle to save them money over time, and keep their decks looking great)
> 
> the downside of the cetol dek is>>>>>>if you dont maintain it, it will be a pita to fix
> 
> youll get one season out of srd,,,,,,,,i think that makes customers unhappy


My clients are on schedule, once a year with SRD and there happy, I have a few that go two years and its mostly dirty but look acceptable. Still cheaper then when DEK goes bad and you have to take it off. Also a lot of my clients do not like DEK's satin finish too.


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## timhag

MAK-Deco said:


> I didn't want people thinking HomeGaurd (homey) was using Behr


Nope, that was me, TIMHAG using BEHR stain on my deck. Homey had nothing to do with it. NEPS gave me the inspiration, pm'ed me telling me that Behr was rated #1 in consumer reports.


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## johnthepainter

whats great is that theres more than one way to skin a cat,,,,,,,

its important to educate customers on deck maintenance

so im guessing that if your maintaining the srd decks every year or two, you have done a good job setting realistic expactations on how long deck products last

pressure treated decks can only look half azzed any way,,,,,,,i typically suggest that pressure treated decks go with some clear sealer, or solid color stain,,,,they are pretty cheesy compared to how sweet cedar can look when its finished well

how do i apply cetol dek??? i wash, brighten, sand and apply 2 coats, with a good sanding between coats,,,,i roll out manageable areas (usually 3 boards) as my helper backbrushes right behind me,,,

the satin look is what i like,,,,,but different strokes for different folks,,,,,,,,but you are correct, that high film build can cause serious problems if its not maintained

im not sure wether wolman still has a product they came out with about 9-10 years ago,,,,it was called Wolman Extreme,,,, 

it was here in my region (great lakes) for only one year untill they quit selling it in this climate

it had a film build similar to that of the sikkens cetol dek,,,,,,and they found it didnt fare well in northern climates







i like furniture looking decks,


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## MAK-Deco

My SRD decks I do on a regular basis are cedar and yes I think PT looks better with something that has more pigment in it.


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## tsunamicontract

yah TH you and your Behr have been bumped down to #2 actually. Better change your avatar to olympic.


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## timhag

tsunamicontract said:


> yah TH you and your Behr have been bumped down to #2 actually. Better change your avatar to olympic.


Brother, thats not what I used on my deck, i'm sticking with Behr till the end.


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## tsunamicontract

haha oh but I would think you would want the "best" for your home


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## timhag

tsunamicontract said:


> haha oh but I would think you would want the "best" for your home


I know whats best for my home cuz.


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## timhag

tsunamicontract said:


> haha oh but I would think you would want the "best" for your home


Dude, I've been using Behr stain on my deck from day one. Now, you won't catch me using Behr paint anywhere. Yes, I used Ralph Lauren because thats what the HO wanted. Now, for all you morons out there that have a problem with this....................KISS MY ITALIAN ASS


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## NEPS.US

:w00t::w00t::w00t::w00t::w00t::w00t::w00t:


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## tsunamicontract

haha just pullin your leg TH


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## [email protected]

Update:

No stain has been applied to the deck due to rain. Perhaps next week....


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## fcsoldier

Use cabot clear...


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## [email protected]

The weather is Awesomely in the 70's and now we are ready to finish up this project. Here I am brushing the deck by hand. It has really been fun. 

Here is an update to our progress: http://picasaweb.google.com/agapepainting.net/RestainingDeck











I decided to go with the Deckscapes Oil Natural Toner by Sherwin Williams. It soaks in really well and gives a GREAT natural appearance imo... 

We still have alot of the main deck to finish (stain only). We will have that done Sunday afternoon (Whole job complete, house painted and deck stained.)


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## Brush and Roller

WOW Jason! What a project! I haven't had to do a deck yet, but I may have one coming up, if I get the job. I have not heard of the brightening step. Any websites for me to reference? Or maybe I should just ask you any questions. This looks fantastic....and time consuming...:notworthy:


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## [email protected]

Any time you strip an old stain from a wood surface you will need to neutralize the stripper so that it stops working , this is the brightening step, and you can see in those pictures what it does from the stripping process to the brightening. The brightening does exactly that, it brings/brightens the wood back to it natural color. 

The bulk of my time so far is in the sanding (defurring) after all the stripping and brightening is completed. I have about 10 man hrs of stripping/brightening (a good part of this time was subbed out), 16 man hrs of sanding and about 10 man hrs of staining (guesstimated because we are not finished yet).

You can ask as may questions as you would like. No gaurantee that I will have the right answer but after every job I do I am a bit more knowledgeable... So go ahead and give it a shot.


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## [email protected]

Here is a good example of what the stripper does to the wood and what it looks like after it has been brightened:










The dark area is where some old stain had not been removed completely and so I had to go back and restrip it. The area existing around that dark area has been brightened. Now don't let the picture fool you.... the deck is wet and that is cedar so the color really stands out. When it is dry it is much whiter/sandy in color as you can see the "sanded and ready for stain" pictures.


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## johnthepainter

is this a pro forum or diy?


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## [email protected]

johnthepainter said:


> is this a pro forum or diy?


Why do you ask the question? You know the answer......


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## MAK-Deco

with all the time you had in that thing and the waiting game on weather I hoped you made money.
In some of the pics all most looked the deck started to gray out all ready. How long was it from cleaning phase to staining?


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## [email protected]

No it hadn't greyed. It sat for 2 weeks without any thing being done to it. We started sanding mid day Thurs and finished Friday later afternoon (yesterday) and then applied the stain to the lower section before the end of the day Friday. We didn't plain the deck to a new wood surface so it will show some old weathering especially on that lower section where there is no covering. Where the deck is covered we will see more of the stain giving the color as if it was new wood being applied to. We can already see this on the step going up to the main deck (covered). But yeah... no greying that I can see. The HO is just amazed and excited with how this project is turning out. :thumbsup:


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## [email protected]

MAK-Deco said:


> with all the time you had in that thing and the waiting game on weather I hoped you made money.


Me too, I won't know until Monday or Tuesday when I sit down to do the actual figures. I am not to concerned at this stage. If I lost which I suspect I might have, it won't be but a couple hundred. To me that isn't much of a loss compared to the gain in experience I got out of this. :thumbup: 

Now to advertise deck restoration. :thumbsup:

I really have enjoyed this experience. Seriously. It was such a great joy to do this deck that I hope another one comes soon. I think what I personally like doing in this project is getting into the nitty-gritty of it all, actually doing the work and I am primarily talking about the brushing on of the stain. The sanding was fun, the strippping was just "ok", but the application of the stain was a time of solitude and contentment and we aren't even done with staining.... Woot! Tomorrow will be another fun day! 

Another part that made this experience fun was sharing it with all you here on PT. I started this topic out of need for help and it ended up being more about sharing an experience intertwined with GREAT suggestions and guidance from other professionals. That has been a great experience in and of itself! :yes:


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## NEPS.US

johnthepainter said:


> is this a pro forum or diy?


:laughing:

another positive post from John!


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## [email protected]

NEPS.US said:


> :laughing:
> 
> another positive post from John!


Maybe he is one of those "painters only wear whites" guys?? LOL

That is the only thing I can see that may have caused his sarcastic (but funny) question. No one can tell without knowing me that I am a painter not a DIY guy with my business atire. Clean blue jean shorts and an Old Navy polo is where I am at... :thumbsup:


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## vermontpainter

[email protected] said:


> Me too, I won't know until Monday or Tuesday when I sit down to do the actual figures. I am not to concerned at this stage. If I lost which I suspect I might have, it won't be but a couple hundred. To me that isn't much of a loss compared to the gain in experience I got out of this. :thumbup:
> 
> Now to advertise deck restoration. :thumbsup:


Jason

Its seems like this deck project, which started on or around May 22 and was supposed to be about 2-3 days of work, has dragged on forever. Before we go jumping up and down about what a success this has been and start promoting ourselves as pro washers, I think there are a lot of lessons we need to realize that we have learned through all this so that the same mistakes dont happen going forward. Also, most importantly, I hope you have job-costed the crap out of this thing so that when you estimate deck restorations in the future, you are not setting yourself up to lose again.


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## NEPS.US

NEPS.US said:


> :laughing:
> 
> another positive post from John!


 
It's funny because it's true :yes:


----------



## NEPS.US

vermontpainter said:


> Jason
> 
> Its seems like this deck project, which started on or around May 22 and was supposed to be about 2-3 days of work, has dragged on forever. Before we go jumping up and down about what a success this has been and start promoting ourselves as pro washers, I think there are a lot of lessons we need to realize that we have learned through all this so that the same mistakes dont happen going forward. Also, most importantly, I hope you have job-costed the crap out of this thing so that when you estimate deck restorations in the future, you are not setting yourself up to lose again.


Price the next one to win and maybe you can get a trailer with a top to it!:thumbsup:


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## PressurePros

My first deck took me 15 hours, cost me nearly $400 in materials and if memory serves me, I think I charged $750. We all need a learning experience and learning only comes from the bad not the good. Once you get efficient with decks you can crank them out billing $150/hr + materials.


----------



## [email protected]

vermontpainter said:


> Jason
> 
> Its seems like this deck project, which started on or around May 22 and was supposed to be about 2-3 days of work, has dragged on forever. Before we go jumping up and down about what a success this has been and start promoting ourselves as pro washers, I think there are a lot of lessons we need to realize that we have learned through all this so that the same mistakes dont happen going forward. Also, most importantly, I hope you have job-costed the crap out of this thing so that when you estimate deck restorations in the future, you are not setting yourself up to lose again.


I have job-costed this job only because how else would I know what a job really costs if I don't? I job-cost all my jobs. 

As for the start and end time difference... Nothing you can do about the rain. I didn't lose out becasue the rain held me back, the rain made opportunity for interior work. :thumbsup: Plus, this job was no more than 5 miles away from my house. From the time we finished stripping it, and the time we came back to sand and stain, was perfect because I still needed to paint the house and now the house is painted and the deck is finishing up last with a half-a-days work left. Easy enough! 

I do see your point VP about stopping a job and restarting it later than anticipated. There is some time lost there. If I were a bigger paint company, that may have made a dramatic difference in my losses but since I am not, it wasn't much of a loss. 

The only real lesson was from the subs. That, I won't forget! :no:


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## vermontpainter

Jason

You're right, the bad call on your subs cost you alot. If they had washed it right the first day, your subsequent days of re-washing/prepping would have been finish days, which would have wrapped it up nicely. That is better for the customers perception of you, and for your cash flow. In the end, when we take one on the chin, we learn.


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## MAK-Deco

The point about lost time is the next time that interior may not be there and you will be looking out the door at the rain drops.


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## [email protected]

NEPS.US said:


> Price the next one to win and maybe you can get a trailer with a top to it!:thumbsup:


I did better than that, $4k cash :thumbup::










Now... that wasn't from the next job btw... hehe.. I got about $15k in tax returns this year (06-07 combined).... That little car could just pull enough that it made me think that I would have to replace the clutch at least once a year and soon enough the engine would be shot pulling so much. I could feel it in the clutch and the engine already.


----------



## [email protected]

MAK-Deco said:


> The point about lost time is the next time that interior may not be there and you will be looking out the door at the rain drops.


I hear ya! :thumbsup:


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## [email protected]

I really didn't think I would swap out the car... but it was a desperate change, yeah I eat fuel with the truck but I can do so much more with that than the car... {Shrug..}


----------



## NEPS.US

[email protected] said:


> I did better than that, $4k cash :thumbup::
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now... that wasn't from the next job btw... hehe.. I got about $15k in tax returns this year (06-07 combined).... That little car could just pull enough that it made me think that I would have to replace the clutch at least once a year and soon enough the engine would be shot pulling so much. I could feel it in the clutch and the engine already.


Sweet ride Jason ...good for you! Get that sucker lettered up! 


Geeze with the 12 kids you got I'd hope you got more than 15k back.......


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## MAK-Deco

Not sure what your situation tax wise is but with that much back are you sending them too much in quarterlies? if so keep more money in your pockets.. The IRS gets there money in due time.


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## [email protected]

Hey MAK, I got all that back and claimed all I could on my W-2... I try hard to keep all I can before the IRS takes theirs. Having a GOOD tax consultant is key!


----------



## [email protected]

NEPS.US said:


> Sweet ride Jason ...good for you! Get that sucker lettered up!
> 
> 
> Geeze with the 12 kids you got I'd hope you got more than 15k back.......



Uhh hummmm.... 5 kids. thank you very much... LOL.... :laughing:


----------



## vermontpainter

IN my experience, any time you owe no taxes or get a refund, it is a sign that you had a pretty bad year compared to the previous one that your quarterlies were based upon. This may not be the best time to take that cash return and dump it into a gas guzzling truck. I would hold off on getting that badboy lettered up Jason. I have an '07 2500 Hemi sitting in the yard these days while I run a more efficient rig. Do you really want to spend $500-600/month on gas? Your old escort is going to start looking pretty sweet. Hang onto it. And for cryin out loud, start making money!Jason, Jason, Jason...


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## vermontpainter

[email protected] said:


> Hey MAK, I got all that back and claimed all I could on my W-2... I try hard to keep all I can before the IRS takes theirs. Having a GOOD tax consultant is key!


 
Jason

The tax consultant who gets you that big of a return is actually not doing such a good job for you.


----------



## [email protected]

VP... wow... way to bring down the tone of conversation. I agree that you may bare some truth to your words but.... but... but.... ugh... I'm sorta speachless and don't know what to think... thanks, I think...


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## MAK-Deco

vermontpainter said:


> IN my experience, any time you owe no taxes or get a refund, it is a sign that you had a pretty bad year compared to the previous one that your quarterlies were based upon. This may not be the best time to take that cash return and dump it into a gas guzzling truck. I would hold off on getting that badboy lettered up Jason. I have an '07 2500 Hemi sitting in the yard these days while I run a more efficient rig. Do you really want to spend $500-600/month on gas? Your old escort is going to start looking pretty sweet. Hang onto it. And for cryin out loud, start making money!Jason, Jason, Jason...


500 - 600 a month I would take that right now and be happy my friend! :whistling2:


----------



## vermontpainter

[email protected] said:


> VP... wow... way to bring down the tone of conversation. I agree that you may bare some truth to your words but.... but... but.... ugh... I'm sorta speachless and don't know what to think... thanks, I think...


 
Jason

Not to be a buzzkill, but so many of us have made that kind of mistake. I know enough about your experience last year to know that you need to be smart NOW. 

A nice big new truck in this business is like a luxury item. Not a good time to buy a luxury item. Trucks dont make us money. Not one darn dime. But boy do they cost us. 

The time to buy that shiny new truck is when you are at the end of a year that is significantly better than the previous, ie, when you NEED a writeoff. You dont need a writeoff in the spring of 08, after the year we both know you went through last year, in a bad economy with gas at $4+/gal. What you NEED is that $15k to get dumped back into your business. Trucks dont make money nearly as well as cash does.


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## vermontpainter

MAK-Deco said:


> 500 - 600 a month I would take that right now and be happy my friend! :whistling2:


Thats gas for ONE truck. I have 3.


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## MAK-Deco

vermontpainter said:


> Thats gas for ONE truck. I have 3.


My "one" is more then that number thats why i would take it!


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## MAK-Deco

vermontpainter said:


> Jason
> 
> Not to be a buzzkill, but so many of us have made that kind of mistake. I know enough about your experience last year to know that you need to be smart NOW.
> 
> A nice big new truck in this business is like a luxury item. Not a good time to buy a luxury item. Trucks dont make us money. Not one darn dime. But boy do they cost us.
> 
> The time to buy that shiny new truck is when you are at the end of a year that is significantly better than the previous, ie, when you NEED a writeoff. You dont need a writeoff in the spring of 08, after the year we both know you went through last year, in a bad economy with gas at $4+/gal. What you NEED is that $15k to get dumped back into your business. Trucks dont make money nearly as well as cash does.


By looking at the truck its not new but nice... Now if he showed you a picture of a deck out 2500 ram 08 model year then there's an issue.


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## [email protected]

It's actually a personal purchase not a business right off. If the business has the money at the end of the year then it might buy that truck from me. We will see when the time comes. Until then... I think I'll enjoy the purchase. It's like a long time reward for 8 years of hard work pushing this painting business around. Sure, I have had some tough times but it seems to be smoothing out as the experience is gaining. Gas goes up, just means the price of our service goes up. ey? Then Gas shouldn't be too much of an issue, but then there is the effect it has on the economy and that will be interesting to watch as we get further into the year. The motto of CV-63 USS Kitty Hawk is: Press On! So we will....


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## [email protected]

MAK-Deco said:


> By looking at the truck its not new but nice... Now if he showed you a picture of a deck out 2500 ram 08 model year then there's an issue.


Yeah, used. You can't buy a new Ram 1500 for $4k.


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## MAK-Deco

[email protected] said:


> Yeah, used. You can't buy a new Ram 1500 for $4k.


indeed


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## vermontpainter

[email protected] said:


> Gas goes up, just means the price of our service goes up. ey? Then Gas shouldn't be too much of an issue
> 
> Jason
> 
> I love you man, you are the eternal optimist. As guys, we can talk ourselves into any purchase anytime...Now, back to reality:
> 
> When you are a two man show (two men carrying all the overhead and cost burden for the business), you may find it a challenge to get your customers to pay for your gas bill on top of their own.


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## [email protected]

LOL VP, True indeed. We're hangin-in there. Keeping the head up and pressing on is all that really matters. I wonder sometimes how things will turn out but my God is greater than I am and knows how it all will be, Trust is all I can do. 

Anyways.... Your a bunch of good lvl headed guys and I appreciate that. Friends will keep friends on the right track. Or I would hope so.....


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## NEPS.US

vermontpainter said:


> IN my experience, any time you owe no taxes or get a refund, it is a sign that you had a pretty bad year compared to the previous one that your quarterlies were based upon. This may not be the best time to take that cash return and dump it into a gas guzzling truck. I would hold off on getting that badboy lettered up Jason. I have an '07 2500 Hemi sitting in the yard these days while I run a more efficient rig. Do you really want to spend $500-600/month on gas? Your old escort is going to start looking pretty sweet. Hang onto it. And for cryin out loud, start making money!Jason, Jason, Jason...


Sweet ...I found our deal ....that Capspray for the Hemi! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## [email protected]

Finally done (couple days ago). :thumbup:


































Here is the link to see the rest of the pics:
http://picasaweb.google.com/agapepainting.net/RestainingDeck

J


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## PressurePros

Jason, looks great! Nice job, man.


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## vermontpainter

Jason...


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## [email protected]

Hehehe... (picture scooby saying that) 

Been busy. I have done one other deck ( http://picasaweb.google.com/agapepainting.net/DeckRestoration) since this last one and have 2 deck bids I am working on at the moment. One of the decks I am in the process of bidding is in the back yard of the neighbor from the link above. I think they actually watched me strip and stain the deck and I had no idea. lol.... 

But yeah, since the project from this op, I have picked up some good deck leads. Amazing how that works! 

Otherwise, my absence has a reward, it's called WORK. :thumbsup:

Thanks for check-n in VP. I'm not ignoring anyone here. :no:


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## vermontpainter

Jason

Your ears must have been ringing. Glad to hear you are well and working. 

By way of update, there is a new sheriff in town, named Severson. Hes a hoot and a half...


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## [email protected]

LOL .....

Yeah I was just reading his post you all slobbered







all over... LOL


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## vermontpainter

[email protected] said:


> LOL .....
> 
> Yeah I was just reading his post you all slobbered
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> all over... LOL


You laugh now Jason, but this kid is the future. The franchise player we have been waiting for. He is being groomed by all the crafty old veterans here and he is going to take this team all the way.


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## [email protected]

vermontpainter said:


> You laugh now Jason, but this kid is the future. The franchise player we have been waiting for. He is being groomed by all the crafty old veterans here and he is going to take this team all the way.


That's what I understand..... soon he will qualify to bid for me..... but then I would be out of a job.... man... You still flipp-n that coin? What side has it landed on? I have to make a decision soon! Sev or go bust? lol....


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