# Tips for Glazing windows



## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

so lets here your tips on glazing.............


after i glaze wimdows i come back with a coat of Zins cover stain (oil)... when the primer dries it forms a ''shell'' over the soft glazing making it possible to finish paint that day............other then that i like to use a soft knife to glaze with, must have a lot of flex


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

almost forgot...........before you ball up the fresh glaze toss it into a bucket of 20 set to soak up some of the oil and make it more managable ( or just sprinkle some on). in a pinch i'll roll it around on newspaper or the sidewalk.... whatever you need to do but i think 20 set or any other dry spackling compound works the best


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

*effective 10-15 year glazing...old school.*

I love glazing. Don't know why, just do. Many hate it, some have good results,but are sloooooow, which usually makes them hate it more. Until they become good and fast. Here in NE, there are many glazing jobs. For me, glazing referrals get me a lot of int/ext work from guys who don't glaze. Suckers. Its like letting the fox in the hen house. 
I have seen many effective glazing techniques, and have incorporated many into how I do it. When I was looking to increase my production time, I went to a glazier shop I bought all my glass from and asked for a tutorial when he had the time. I had been glazing for 4 years and thought pretty highly of my technique. Within the first minute I got schooled. i had been using a 2 inch flex putty knife. He (serious old school Mainer) and others since, explained that in order to really push the glazing compound into the wood grain of the muntin for a lasting seal, I should use the heel of my palm, using the force and weight of my arm and thumb to roll it along the muntin. Then use a glazing knife, or stiff putty knife(old chisels work well) to shape the putty and get the perfect angles.
Since the palm technique is best used when the sash is on a table, if the sash is still installed (not ideal, but...), I bed the putty, then use an angled glazing tool and crank down really hard to really push the putty into the grain. 
I repair a lot of painter glazing jobs. Other than wavy lines, visable putty(from inside) and [email protected] corner angles, the most common fail is glazing lifting up from the muntin in a straight line crack, sometimes packed with paint when they top coated, or not if the failure was after the paint job, with the crack exposed to the elements. This failure is due to insufficient pressure applied when seating the glazing compound. Most real glaziers have crazy hitchiker's thumb from the pressure they exert seating the putty. This pressure is the difference between a job I would warranty and I job I would not.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

i ball the glaze up then use my thumb to push it in and work my way down .........i tried the stiff knife but never liked it instead i use the flex but hold the blade in my hand not by the handle and use my thumb on the tip of the knife to apply more pressure as needed.......always a str8 line and tight corners. actually i could just cut the handle off completely but i use it for other stuff so i cant

i probably use a flex knife cause it fits better in my hand, when i grab it the flex allows it to kind of mold to my grip seeing how i dont use the handle


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

That sounds good.:thumbup: I think one could apply putty with a spatula as long as it is really jammed down tight, not just laid out. I die a little bit inside when I see guys sitting a rolled tube of putty in the muntin and just tamp it down using the width of a 2inch flex blade,working along the length of the line,trying to get a clean line on the glass, while making 2 inch lines in the putty with the edges of the blade.:no:


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## b2dap1 (Mar 18, 2009)

I like this method..




I totally agree that it must be pressed in firmly everywhere! It also must dry!! Then with a coat of oil primer and then 2 coats of Duration you have a solid finished product.


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## Faron79 (Dec 11, 2007)

What's this?!?!!?

Nobodies using an OIL primer in the channel BEFORE glazing?!

Technically it should be done so older/dry wood doesn't leech Oils from the putty out too fast, causing cracking.
Slow-dry primers are best, if time permits.

Time consuming....yes....
"More" correct....also yes.

Faron


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

Faron79 said:


> What's this?!?!!?
> 
> Nobodies using an OIL primer in the channel BEFORE glazing?!
> 
> ...


 
i prime before glazing but were not talkin about that..........just talkin about glazing tips not what we do before we glaze....that would be another topic an we have short attention spans here soooooo anywho


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Faron,

You are absolutely correct, HOWEVER (and who didn't predict THAT  ), I found that Penetrol works actually better. It soaks in deeper and having it own driers, seals the wood so it don't suck the life out of the glazing compound.


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## Faron79 (Dec 11, 2007)

Uffda!
(more of my rebel Norwegian comin' out!:yes

Ole & daArch...You two have good points!

I wouldn't have considered Penetrol:blink:...just doesn't seem like enough of a barrier, relative to an Oil primer. But it probably does just fine!

Faron


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

is penetrol that much better than oil primer to warrent the additional step ?


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## Faron79 (Dec 11, 2007)

IMO-

The "IDEAL", longest-lasting glaze-job would include SOME type of barrier-coat (NOT Latex in this case!) on the wood b4 even starting.

Some glaze instructions even reference this Oil-priming step!

It's the same logic as lightly misting old plaster walls a couple times b4 re-plastering a repair. The old plaster is SOOOOoooo dried-out. When new "very moist" material goes back on, the old stuff just sucks out the water in the patch....leading to early cracking.

If the patch area is re-hydrated, moisture is equalized, and the patch will last far longer.

Faron


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## Contractor Jeff (Apr 8, 2011)

Ole34 said:


> is penetrol that much better than oil primer to warrent the additional step ?


It's not that as much as it applies easily and quickly as compared to primers.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

daArch said:


> Faron,
> 
> You are absolutely correct, HOWEVER (and who didn't predict THAT  ), I found that Penetrol works actually better. It soaks in deeper and having it own driers, seals the wood so it don't suck the life out of the glazing compound.


Not to argue with the old timer:whistling2: but linseed oil is the way to go.


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## DinverRed (Apr 12, 2011)

Ole34 said:


> is penetrol that much better than oil primer to warrent the additional step ?


Actually sounds like a good idea. I have always primed with oil prior to glazing. The video was okay. I like a 3" flex knife myself. Applies it faster. Also, the glazer didn't mention the dangers of cracking the glass when scraping out the old putty with the tool on the glass surface.


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

whats the going rate for glazing old windows?


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

high fibre said:


> whats the going rate for glazing old windows?


 
Oh no you didn't?!!!!!!!


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

high fibre said:


> whats the going rate for glazing old windows?


 

$80-$100 to prep/paint 6 over 6 sash windows so about $130-$150 to re-glaze/prep/paint


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

Ole - instead of dropping your glazing in a bag of 20 minutes. have them shake the tub at the store in the paint shaker. You will be amazed on how nice it is to work with. 

Pat


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

PatsPainting said:


> Ole - instead of dropping your glazing in a bag of 20 minutes. have them shake the tub at the store in the paint shaker. You will be amazed on how nice it is to work with.
> 
> Pat


 
damn!!............never ever would have though of that ..........i swear sometimes, im completely blind to the simplest of **** lol


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## mv8710 (Jul 28, 2010)

kdpaint said:


> I love glazing. Don't know why, just do. Many hate it, some have good results,but are sloooooow, which usually makes them hate it more. Until they become good and fast. Here in NE, there are many glazing jobs. For me, glazing referrals get me a lot of int/ext work from guys who don't glaze. Suckers. Its like letting the fox in the hen house.
> I have seen many effective glazing techniques, and have incorporated many into how I do it. When I was looking to increase my production time, I went to a glazier shop I bought all my glass from and asked for a tutorial when he had the time. I had been glazing for 4 years and thought pretty highly of my technique. Within the first minute I got schooled. i had been using a 2 inch flex putty knife. He (serious old school Mainer) and others since, explained that in order to really push the glazing compound into the wood grain of the muntin for a lasting seal, I should use the heel of my palm, using the force and weight of my arm and thumb to roll it along the muntin. Then use a glazing knife, or stiff putty knife(old chisels work well) to shape the putty and get the perfect angles.
> Since the palm technique is best used when the sash is on a table, if the sash is still installed (not ideal, but...), I bed the putty, then use an angled glazing tool and crank down really hard to really push the putty into the grain.
> I repair a lot of painter glazing jobs. Other than wavy lines, visable putty(from inside) and [email protected] corner angles, the most common fail is glazing lifting up from the muntin in a straight line crack, sometimes packed with paint when they top coated, or not if the failure was after the paint job, with the crack exposed to the elements. This failure is due to insufficient pressure applied when seating the glazing compound. Most real glaziers have crazy hitchiker's thumb from the pressure they exert seating the putty. This pressure is the difference between a job I would warranty and I job I would not.



What the??? do you put putty onto the bare wood? you're sposed to prime it first so the oil doesnt soak into the wood and fall out.


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## mv8710 (Jul 28, 2010)

Faron79 said:


> What's this?!?!!?
> 
> Nobodies using an OIL primer in the channel BEFORE glazing?!
> 
> ...


Wait.....if you look at the video the inside frame has been primed, but he should have mentioned it. especially on the bottom rail.


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## mv8710 (Jul 28, 2010)

daArch said:


> Faron,
> 
> You are absolutely correct, HOWEVER (and who didn't predict THAT  ), I found that Penetrol works actually better. It soaks in deeper and having it own driers, seals the wood so it don't suck the life out of the glazing compound.


cheers.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

mv8710 said:


> cheers.


 another resurrected, ancient thread


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## premierpainter (Apr 17, 2007)

We glaze with water putty. costs about $7 for a small can, but it dries like spackle.


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## mpminter (Mar 21, 2011)

I just discovered aquaglaze myself. I used it on a job this passed summer and it seemed to work pretty well. I was looking at an elastomeric glazing compound that comes out of a caulking tube but I haven't had a chance to try it. It's called glaze-ease 601 and it's intriguing. I'd love to hear a review if anyone has used it. Here's a youtube video.


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## Perfect Edge (Oct 28, 2011)

I will usually have several windows to work on at once, so I glaze just 2 sides of each pane (opposite sides) for a few units I'm working on, then come back and do the other sides after the first have dried some. That's been my easiest way to get nice mitered corners. 

I did some on a really hot week this summer. What a pain. 

About that tube glaze... might be nice with new sashes like in the video but spot glazing 100+ year old windows with knicks and different depths might not be ideal from what I see. Could be too soft to really push in to uneven areas without making a mess. I still might try it if I see it around.

Not a fan of the DAP in a tube either, my biggest complaint with that stuff is the size of the opening, the square angle does have potential though.

josh


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## mv8710 (Jul 28, 2010)

mpminter said:


> I just discovered aquaglaze myself. I used it on a job this passed summer and it seemed to work pretty well. I was looking at an elastomeric glazing compound that comes out of a caulking tube but I haven't had a chance to try it. It's called glaze-ease 601 and it's intriguing. I'd love to hear a review if anyone has used it. Here's a youtube video. youtube video


Do you reckon you could use ordinary caulking ?


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## Ultimate (Mar 20, 2011)

edit: nvm 

Good tip though Pat. Good thread I like this skill.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

FatherandSonPainting said:


> ^ lol Pat in thanking 'Ole on that post. 'Ole is good people. haha
> 
> Good tip though Pat. Good thread I like this skill.


Heh - not sure Ole is with us anymore... Not sure if its permanent or just temp vacation.

Pat


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## mv8710 (Jul 28, 2010)

*Caulk vs putty*

Do you think I could use latex caulking instead of putty on and exterior window.
only the bottom putty needs replacing on the windows.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

mv8710 said:


> Do you think I could use latex caulking instead of putty on and exterior window.
> only the bottom putty needs replacing on the windows.


That's what a HO would do. Only time I use caulking for glazing is on the top portion of the bottom sash when the top sash has been painted shut and the HO does not care to have it working again. 

Pat


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## Ultimate (Mar 20, 2011)

PatsPainting said:


> Heh - not sure Ole is with us anymore... Not sure if its permanent or just temp vacation.
> 
> Pat


It depends on how you read that complete post with your thanks as to finding the humor in it. 

What? Nah...... Ah well. He will be back I hope.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

mv8710 said:


> Do you think I could use latex caulking instead of putty on and exterior window.
> only the bottom putty needs replacing on the windows.


I use OSI QUAD and tape off the glass to create a straight line. A long time glass guy showed me that technique. I know it's not standard restoration procedures, but the caulk will last longer than the glazing compound. It works great for spot glazing, and I recently replaced several panes on several windows and it worked well for that too. You won't get the perfect corners that an expert glazier will get, but it looked pretty good. I reckon this will catch some heat from the purists, and that's ok. Usually the spot repairs look better than the rest of the glazing in the window anyways.


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## mv8710 (Jul 28, 2010)

thanks


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## pacificpainters.com (May 5, 2011)

I would like to say one thing... I HATE  WINDOW GLAZING!!!!!

The funny thing is that I have to teach it and I am crap at it. I show the video below and tell my students in all honesty that it is not my strong point. Then I proceed to demonstrate the best way I can, I am slow but in the end it looks okay.

The embarrassing thing is that usually my students end up doing it better and faster then me. 

I suppose we can't be good at everything.


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## pacificpainters.com (May 5, 2011)

chrisn said:


> another resurrected, ancient thread


Damn, I fell for it again. First post I have made for at least a month and it is to a necro thread.

Man I feel like a sucker!


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

mv8710 said:


> Do you think I could use latex caulking instead of putty on and exterior window.
> only the bottom putty needs replacing on the windows.


 
In a word* NO*


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## mpminter (Mar 21, 2011)

You really don't want to be using caulk to glaze windows. It isn't made for that and it WILL fail prematurely. Stick to products made for the purpose.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

mpminter said:


> You really don't want to be using caulk to glaze windows. It isn't made for that and it WILL fail prematurely. Stick to products made for the purpose.


It will fail. You mean like how glazing compound fails? Please expand on the technical and empirical evidence you have for this claim. In my judgment a product that is made to adhere to a variety of substrates, such as a high performance caulking, is probably better suited in some ways than glazing compound. I am willing to be wrong, but I am not convinced by broad statements with no evidence.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Damon T said:


> It will fail. You mean like how glazing compound fails? Please expand on the technical and empirical evidence you have for this claim. In my judgment a product that is made to adhere to a variety of substrates, such as a high performance caulking, is probably better suited in some ways than glazing compound. I am willing to be wrong, but I am not convinced by broad statements with no evidence.


 
Why then is there glazing compound? Properly applied it will last for 100 years, will caulking?


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## IHATE_HOMEDEPOT (May 27, 2008)

*Glazing in the tube.Works well. Notice special tip.*


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## mpminter (Mar 21, 2011)

Damon T said:


> It will fail. You mean like how glazing compound fails? Please expand on the technical and empirical evidence you have for this claim. In my judgment a product that is made to adhere to a variety of substrates, such as a high performance caulking, is probably better suited in some ways than glazing compound. I am willing to be wrong, but I am not convinced by broad statements with no evidence.


Let me temper my statement. When someone talks about using caulk to glaze windows, I immediately think of a conversation I overheard between a HD employee and a HO in which the HD employee recommended Alex painters caulk as a good substitute for glazing. I think most of us would agree that Alex painters caulk isn't even the greatest painters caulk, much less window glazing. I have looked around online since reading your post and have found several instances where qualified people have stated that a high quality exterior caulk is a serviceable substitute for glazing putty. I may not like it, but I am willing to admit when I'm wrong :notworthy:


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## [email protected] (Mar 1, 2008)

I bought a gallon of this http://www.abatron.com/buildingandr...tionaccessories/glazingcompound.html?vmcchk=1 summer for a job that had a lot of reglazing to be done. It had been listed in fine homebuilding mag Oily but great stuff to work with. You differently want some Whiting to go with it. Shows how old school I am to keep whitting around. 
David


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## Delta Painting (Apr 27, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Shows how old school I am to keep whitting around.
> David


Your not alone...:thumbup:


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Every painter should have whitning in the van or their box. Swedish puddy can be used the second before you paint and not flash.  

I don't get calls for glazing like I used to, but then I don't do as much historical work. With how expensive it is compared to new windows with the tax credit, most of my clients opt to replace.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Good video pacificpainters. I learned about the capillary effect of improper gazing.

The only question I would have for you as a student would be, if the front rebate is 2 mm lower then the back rebate as described being the correct installation, wouldn't you see the glazing from the outside of the window? Especially if the color was a much darker contrast then the white of the glazing. Is this esthetically acceptable? Thank you


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

CApainter said:


> Good video pacificpainters. I learned about the capillary effect of improper gazing.
> 
> The only question I would have for you as a student would be, if the front rebate is 2 mm lower then the back rebate as described being the correct installation, wouldn't you see the glazing from the outside of the window? Especially if the color was a much darker contrast then the white of the glazing. Is this esthetically acceptable? Thank you


NOT to my wife it's not.:no:


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## Dunbar Painting (Mar 19, 2010)

Those videos were informative, especially the first video... however I would like to see the dude be so efficient at the top of a 32' ladder.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Nice catch chrisn! Even though it wasn't intended I'll let it stand.


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## pacificpainters.com (May 5, 2011)

CApainter said:


> Good video pacificpainters. I learned about the capillary effect of improper gazing.
> 
> The only question I would have for you as a student would be, if the front rebate is 2 mm lower then the back rebate as described being the correct installation, wouldn't you see the glazing from the outside of the window? Especially if the color was a much darker contrast then the white of the glazing. Is this esthetically acceptable? Thank you


I agree 2mm is a bit too much but if you run the paint up just over the edge of the glazed putty the rebate does not show that much.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

mpminter said:


> Let me temper my statement. When someone talks about using caulk to glaze windows, I immediately think of a conversation I overheard between a HD employee and a HO in which the HD employee recommended Alex painters caulk as a good substitute for glazing. I think most of us would agree that Alex painters caulk isn't even the greatest painters caulk, much less window glazing. I have looked around online since reading your post and have found several instances where qualified people have stated that a high quality exterior caulk is a serviceable substitute for glazing putty. I may not like it, but I am willing to admit when I'm wrong :notworthy:


Thanks mpminter
I typically use the caulking method when trying to weather seal the glazing that is starting to crack or come away from the glass a little, but is not loose enough to remove completely. I will though use it to seal sections that have fallen out as well. I only use products that meet ASTM 920, and would never use Alex etc. I agree proper glazing is preferable for historic restoration, and when done right looks better and probably performs at least as well, as another poster mentioned it lasts a long time. Best wishes.


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