# oil based painting in freezing temperatures



## Mark

I know that latex paint can be damaged if frozen but what about painting with oil based paint in 31 degree weather? When we get to the job site it will be a low of 31 degrees, but temperatures are expected to get up in the 50s around mid day. Anyone know if this is in any way compromising the integrity of the paint job?


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## Last Craftsman

*Oil in the cold.*

We used to paint oil year round. It was a solid body stain. 

What is very important is that the surface is DRY. In the cold it can take weeks for wood to get completely dry if there has been rain.

I once painted the outside of a house with solid body oil stain in the middle of winter and there was ice on the ground, I drove by 10 years later and it still looked good. (slightly faded)

However the actual humidity was very low, and it hadnt rained in weeks.

Raising up to 50 degrees might actually be detrimental because it may cause condensation on the surface going from cold to warm and back again.

In order to help you figure out if it will work, I would put it this way: 

If you take a bone dry piece of unfinished trim, and paint oil base paint on it, then take it outside to dry where it is 30 degrees, it will be fine, even if it gets sprinkled on. (not a downpour)

If you take that same piece of trim that has any moisture in the wood, and paint oil of the top of it, you will have problems regardless of what temperature it is outside. 

Hope that helps.


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## Mark

Actually we are painting primed iron rails. By the time we get there in the morning the rails are dry from any overnight dew. So I suspect it should be ok to proceed to paint. We are going for it in the morning. Thanks for the help.:thumbup:


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## NEPS.US

Iron railings .....surface temp will not rise like the air unless it is in the sunlight.


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## daArch

Mark said:


> I know that latex paint can be damaged if frozen but what about painting with oil based paint in 31 degree weather? When we get to the job site it will be a low of 31 degrees, but temperatures are expected to get up in the 50s around mid day. Anyone know if this is in any way compromising the integrity of the paint job?


Mark,

I like to adhere to the instructions on the label. 

Most say "air and surface" above 50 degrees. There are a few (linseed oil based) that say "air and surface above 40 degrees".

Not being a chemist, I tend to bend these limits only by a degree or two.

Perhaps Formulator or Wolverine will have time to explain the chemisty and why the limits are important (or not). 


BTW, my flesh crawled as I walked into a house a few years ago when it was snowing (at 32 degrees) and some slug was priming bare wood on the stoop with a Zinsser latex primer.


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## YubaPaintPro

Mark,
I'll be the manufacturer here and say "good luck".  But honestly, if you were using my product, I'd want to know how it performed so I could share that w/ my R & D lab. We certainly put safe and realistic performance features on our labels, but we all know that "what happens in the field, stays in the field".

The lack of moisture I think is a good thing for you. I had painters wiping the dew off the exterior of a bldg to paint it just minutes later. Yikes. No problems though.


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## Bender

Mark, watch for blushing.


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## ewingpainting.net

Your not suppose to apply any coatings in freezing conditions.


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## TooledUp

You should be okay but expect it to take a day or two to thoroughly dry. The day temperature probably won't stay long enough for it to harden and dry before it drops again. I doubt if you would get a second coat on the next day.

Also, if you are finishing with any kind of gloss/sheen finish then the cold will affect it and you will likely have a lot of flat areas on the finish product.

If I know there's a danger of the temp dropping below the recommended working environment then I usually put a drop of driers into it. Don't be too heavy handed with that stuff tho or you might cause more damage than the frost!


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## plainpainter

oil based resins need ample temperature in order for them to polymerize - I had a friend that did work for PM's - and if they wanted something painted in the middle of January, he obliged them. He would tell me that as he was putting on the oil paint - it was freezing before his very eyes. And it all came off the following spring.


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## TooledUp

plainpainter said:


> oil based resins need ample temperature in order for them to polymerize - I had a friend that did work for PM's - and if they wanted something painted in the middle of January, he obliged them. He would tell me that as he was putting on the oil paint - it was freezing before his very eyes. And it all came off the following spring.


Like I said, if you use a drop (and I mean a drop) of driers (terabine) then it will reduce the drying time by about 75%. It _may_ still take a couple of days for the paint to harden enough to take a subsequent coat though. If the daytime temp is ample then it should be enough to beat the frost. As a rule of the thumb I would not paint before 10 am and no later than 2.30 pm in the winter climate here in the UK - Even with terabine added.


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## Last Craftsman

*Mark...metal...Yikes!*

When I was working for the contractor that painted oil year round it was a flat product and it was painted on wood that absorbed it. Even though we painted "year round", we didn't make a habit of painting the wood when it was actually below freezing. I have a couple times painted oil on wood when there was ice on the ground and had no problems. The examples I gave were exceptions to the rule that worked with wood. I have even seen it sprinkle on the siding several times in the winter after the product was applied and it did no harm.

Painting metal in the winter, especially near freezing is a different situation.

Especially if there was dew on metal the previous evening, it is likely there would still be moisture on the surface during the day. 

I apologize if my post was misleading. I was trying to give you some examples of exceptions to the rule based on the specific examples and variables I had experienced that might be _helpful to you making a decision._

I wasn't trying to give you the impression that your situation would definately work because mine did. Upon re-reading my post I feel I should have been a lot more clear about that.

Also, you had mentioned the temperatures 30 degrees, and 50 degrees, I guess I figured it would be 40 - 50 degrees when you applied the product. 
It was almost always in this range when we painted in the winter. Again my experience was with solid body stain on wood.

I hope you got a chance to read some of the posts that were made by other members last night after you posted that you would be painting metal railings.


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## slickshift

Not actually looking at your product's TDS I can't say for sure, but I'd bet the boat you are so far out of your manufacturer's specs they would literally scream if you told them

"surface and substrate above 50*" doesn't mean "for a few moments" or even "for an hour or two", and there's no way your metal is up there when you start, or long enough to be considered "OK"

It will take days to dry, and the chances of comprise during that period are huge
It certainly will be compromised as you are applying it
How much? It depends
That's just it, there's no way to know
Might stick, might not...maybe 'till spring, maybe till tomorrow

But it's veering so far into the Bad Idea Lane I can't see how you won't hit the ditch and flip


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## vermontpainter

I am surprised that this discussion is happening. Actually, I take that back. A couple of threads lately have me thinking that desperate times truly call for desperate measures. Sad. ::shrugs::


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## Bender

If the* low* temp is 31 and the highs are in the fifties *and* you have a failure you need to find a new product. I'll betcha a case of Guinness you will be fine


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## Bender

> I am surprised that this discussion is happening. Actually, I take that back. A couple of threads lately have me thinking that desperate times truly call for desperate measures. Sad. ::shrugs::


If I read that right (IF), I would be willing to bet we have all taken bigger risks for being too busy as opposed to "desperate"
True?


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## vermontpainter

Bender said:


> If I read that right (IF), I would be willing to bet we have all taken bigger risks for being too busy as opposed to "desperate"
> True?


Its not really possible to answer on behalf of "all", but speaking just for me, I guess I can't think of a better way to set oneself up for a failed coating than to paint with oil in freezing temperatures. Unless perhaps as someone mentioned above, the substrate could be wet or have melting ice or something on it. Sorry.


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## NEPS.US

I like to test the metal first .....in the morning I shotgun a beer and then press my tounge against the railing ....if it sticks to it and I have to call 911, its too cold to paint.


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## slickshift

*The Test*

NEPS on the left:


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## NEPS.US

slickshift said:


> NEPS on the left:


awsome movie..........


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## Bender

> I guess I can't think of a better way to set oneself up for a failed coating than to paint with oil in freezing temperatures.


Well, this is common sense, something a painter should know.
However if the low was 31 degrees and the high was in the fifties I think these are reasonable conditions for handrail.


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## vermontpainter

Bender said:


> Well, this is common sense, something a painter should know.
> However if the low was 31 degrees and the high was in the fifties I think these are reasonable conditions for handrail.


If thats the case, you might want to leave your oil base paint out there overnight so that its the same temperature as the substrate. If you bring it out there in the morning after storing it at room temperature all night, you might get some condensation that would affect adhesion. If they are both frozen you would be better off.


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## NEPS.US

And tonight playing the role of johnthepainter is vermontpainer.


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## Last Craftsman

*Slickshift and Neps...*

Lol. I actually thought of this. But I didnt want to seem like I was making light of the situation seeing as how my post could have inadvertantly influenced Mark to proceed.

Now that you have "broken the ice" I will say this:

It's called the "rule of _tongue_".

The rule of tongue states that if you stick your tongue to it and it freezes, DON'T PAINT IT!


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## vermontpainter

This is turning into theater of the absurd,,,,,


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## Last Craftsman

*Slickshift and Neps...*



slickshift said:


> NEPS on the left:


As this website clearly states:

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. 

:whistling2:


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## Bender

How am I supposed to respond to that


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## daArch

NEPS.US said:


> And tonight playing the role of johnthepainter is vermontpainer.


I haven't wet myself in a long time - THANK YOU for that warm moist feeling


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## TooledUp

You should try painter's mitts for application in cold conditions. They don't help the paiint stick but they'll keep your hands warm when you're painting lol.

Tip: Remove before peeing.


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## YubaPaintPro

NEPS.US said:


> awsome movie..........


One of the best Christmas classics. Hands down winner. Is this the metal we are painting in this thread?


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## Tonyg

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Dew Point! Especially painting metal. The paint may stick at 30 degrees but at that temp I bet you have a greater chance of that substrate sweating before it has cured - which will definitely cause the coating to fail.


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## vermontpainter

Tonyg said:


> I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Dew Point! Especially painting metal. The paint may stick at 30 degrees but at that temp I bet you have a greater chance of that substrate sweating before it has cured - which will definitely cause the coating to fail.


See post #22 :yes:


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## TooledUp

If there's a reason that it _has_ to be done in those conditions then following the advice given gives it the best chance of survival. Or at least giving it _some_ chance of making it. If there isn't any real reason apart from making some $$$ and stuff the client then see post #22.


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## Tonyg

vermontpainter said:


> See post #22 :yes:


 
Oh...

Well kinda. 

Although I don't think the temp of the material is going to matter when it comes to the steel sweating. If its dry now and the temp changes the substrate will develope condensation. If you use cold paint on cold steel and then it sweats a couple of hours later then it won't matter what the temp of the paint is going to be when it is applied it will have bonding issues.


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## Bender

Great picture of your kid Tony:thumbup:
Cracks me up.


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## Mark

Bender said:


> If the* low* temp is 31 and the highs are in the fifties *and* you have a failure you need to find a new product. I'll betcha a case of Guinness you will be fine


I agree. Actually when we started painting the sun was beating down on the rails. They were dry and the temperature was steadily climbing above freezing. Within 3 or so hours we were shedding off our jackets and the paint was drying nicely. It actually turned out good. You have to remember I am in central Texas. We have a saying here... "If you don't like the weather in texas just wait a minute!" We were under pressure from the builder to get it done by the deadline so thats the reason I pushed the limits in this case. I hated to do it and under normal circumstances wouldn't, but they want us outta there quick, fast and in a hurry. Thanks guys for your posts


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## Mark

vermontpainter said:


> If thats the case, you might want to leave your oil base paint out there overnight so that its the same temperature as the substrate. If you bring it out there in the morning after storing it at room temperature all night, you might get some condensation that would affect adhesion. If they are both frozen you would be better off.


Yes the paint was left in the garage.


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## Tonyg

Bender said:


> Great picture of your kid Tony:thumbup:
> Cracks me up.


 
Grand kid - its an old picture that I ran across again recently that I took when he was crawling through one of those blow up tunnels. The static electricity made some great shots. He's 8 now.


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## tsunamicontract

TooledUp said:


> You should try painter's mitts for application in cold conditions. They don't help the paiint stick but they'll keep your hands warm when you're painting lol.
> 
> Tip: Remove before peeing.


its been a good thread, but I think this gets my vote for best post.


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## daArch

Mark said:


> I agree. Actually when we started painting the sun was beating down on the rails. They were dry and the temperature was steadily climbing above freezing. Within 3 or so hours we were shedding off our jackets and the paint was drying nicely. It actually turned out good. You have to remember I am in central Texas. We have a saying here... "If you don't like the weather in texas just wait a minute!" We were under pressure from the builder to get it done by the deadline so thats the reason I pushed the limits in this case. I hated to do it and under normal circumstances wouldn't, but they want us outta there quick, fast and in a hurry. Thanks guys for your posts


And that's the point that we shoulda remembered - TEXAS .

In New England we say, if you don't like the weather, wait five minutes and walk a mile. 

It's been said that the weather makers practiced their craft here in NE, and once they got it down, moved to the west.


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## Charles

You will be fine if your using a Semi-gloss or Satin oil based paint. The gloss can go flat on you. I know its not recommended but some times you have to finish. Never had a problem even in -5 degree weather. Try to work 2 separate gallons. Try to keep one in a warm palce and alternate gallons. The paint will thicken up on you as it gets cold. You can add thinner but you'll be adding thinner all day!


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