# Stained wood work



## concrete effects (Jul 27, 2009)

Have a client that wants all her stained wood work painted satin white. Doors, casings, bi-fold closet doors, window trim & baseboards. If we get job we plan to de-gloss all wood work and do (2) coats of Ben moore Iron clad, not sure if we should go with the oil or acrylic, first coat is self prime so that saves one step their. 

Thinking of using airless with ff 210 tip, or do you think hvlp would be better & less over spray? This is a very high end home that is fully furnished, all marble floors, the works. If we have to, will brush all trim but man that's time comsuming.. Thanks in advance for any advise...


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## TooledUp (May 17, 2008)

So you've got to mask all walls and floors and you think brushing will be slower?


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## concrete effects (Jul 27, 2009)

Were doing ceilings & walls anyway so floors will be protected. You really think brushing 27 doors, casings etc will be quicker than spraying?


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## TooledUp (May 17, 2008)

concrete effects said:


> Were doing ceilings & walls anyway so floors will be protected. You really think brushing 27 doors, casings etc will be quicker than spraying?



I was under the impression you were just doing the wood. I could brush faster than mask and spray. If you're not good with a brush tho then spray would be for you.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

concrete effects said:


> Have a client that wants all her stained wood work painted satin white. Doors, casings, bi-fold closet doors, window trim & baseboards. If we get job we plan to de-gloss all wood work and do (2) coats of Ben moore Iron clad, not sure if we should go with the oil or acrylic, first coat is self prime so that saves one step their.
> 
> Thinking of using airless with ff 210 tip, or do you think hvlp would be better & less over spray? This is a very high end home that is fully furnished, all marble floors, the works. If we have to, will brush all trim but man that's time comsuming.. Thanks in advance for any advise...


Do you have a room large enough that you can turn into a spray room for the doors? If you do mark the doors and then spray them in the room and brush the jambs. 
The problem I see with this is you mentioned an occupied home and that is often enough for me just to do it by hand. Lots of variables for a potential problem. 

If you can create a spray room I would use a 310 for the doors. 

Have you submited your proposal yet? If so you should of priced it for what you needs to be done, ie. brushwork ect. If you are getting ideas before the proposal then factor in the brush work and bill accordingly.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

concrete effects said:


> Have a client that wants all her stained wood work painted satin white. Doors, casings, bi-fold closet doors, window trim & baseboards. If we get job we plan to de-gloss all wood work and do (2) coats of Ben moore Iron clad, not sure if we should go with the oil or acrylic, first coat is self prime so that saves one step their.
> 
> Thinking of using airless with ff 210 tip, or do you think hvlp would be better & less over spray? This is a very high end home that is fully furnished, all marble floors, the works. If we have to, will brush all trim but man that's time comsuming.. Thanks in advance for any advise...


CE,

what is the finish now on the stain. None, urethane, varnish, laquer, or shellac? Waterborne or oil ? What will you be using for a deglosser?

I was never a big fan of a chemical deglosser, but have had great results with old fashion sanding and them appropriate primer and finish of my choice.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

I personally would sand and mask everything first and then prime with CENSORED and apply two coats of CENSORED. Be sure to use a good pump like a CENSORED and a FF tip, my preference is CENSORED.


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## mistcoat (Apr 21, 2007)

Wolfgang said:


> I personally would sand and mask everything first and then prime with CENSORED and apply two coats of CENSORED. Be sure to use a good pump like a CENSORED and a FF tip, my preference is CENSORED.


Is that the PC "censored" products, Wolfie? lmao


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## LOSTinDETAILS (Jun 17, 2009)

As much as I enjoy pulling out my sprayer and going to town. I think you are going to be better served doing it by hand being that it is a re-paint. Looking at the TDB, it says overnight for re-coat. I doubt they are going to want to go over 2 days without doors. Maybe you can leave a few of the important doors in and do them by hand for there privacy and then spray the rest. And on a side note I seriously doubt you are going to cover a stain with a white in two coats. I would factor three to be on the safe side.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Wolfgang said:


> I personally would sand and mask everything first and then prime with CENSORED and apply two coats of CENSORED. Be sure to use a good pump like a CENSORED and a FF tip, my preference is CENSORED.


This post helps no one and you know it. 
Nathan covered the topic and it was clear. 
Why not post your frustrations in that thread rather than let it spill over into other threads? If you want to respond please please do so in the censorship thread so this guys thread does not got all muddy.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

2 coats over stained trim? I doubt that will work well for you. I would not rely on deglosser either. Degloss to remove any oil and contaminants then sand, them prime, then 2 coats (maybe 3 if dark wood). I know the Metal and Wood is labeled self priming, but in this application, I would lean towards a bonding primer (although the oil may be OK).

If the house is EMPTY, I could see masking floor and cabinets and spraying it all. If it is occupied, no way would I do it. It is a shame on some homes to take a smooth sprayed finish and put brushmarks on it. I do more brushing than spraying, FYI, so this is not anti-brushing trim. That sprayed look is sooo nice and smooth. Well done brushwork is nice as well.


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## michfan (Jul 6, 2008)

DeanV said:


> 2 coats over stained trim? I doubt that will work well for you. I would not rely on deglosser either. Degloss to remove any oil and contaminants then sand, them prime, then 2 coats (maybe 3 if dark wood). I know the Metal and Wood is labeled self priming, but in this application, I would lean towards a bonding primer (although the oil may be OK).


I couldn't agree more with DeanV on this one. Definitely prep, prime, and then two coat. Sometimes even getting that to cover over dark stained trim isn't easy! A good primer will not only help with the all important issue of adhesion, but also coverage...Also, I know it seems out of the ordinary, but I actually prefer oil as a finish on trim.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

DeanV said:


> It is a shame on some homes to take a smooth sprayed finish and put brushmarks on it. I do more brushing than spraying, FYI, so this is not anti-brushing trim. That sprayed look is sooo nice and smooth. Well done brushwork is nice as well.


It's no secret that I was a brush man, but I have come to appreciate the nice smooth look of a good spray job.

YET, some HO's request that sprayed trim be brushed. They feel the long even brush strokes replicate the look of the wood grain, whereas the even look of a good spray job, looks "plastic"

How often do the rest of you hear this opinion/preference from your customers?


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## michfan (Jul 6, 2008)

I actually had one customer a while back that didn't want us to spray her kitchen cabinets with lacquer because they would look "plasticky" (for lack of a better word ). Evidently she thought they would be too smooth

Never had an issue with brushmarks on trim...yet


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I have not brushed much oil lately. Nothing makes me feel like a craftsman like brushing oil trim work. I just get sick of the drytime and cleanup hassle. WB paints are getting closer and closer to what I can do with oil, just not as much forgiveness brushing WB.

Bill, I get some asking about keeping a sprayed finsih, but unless it is am empty house and carpet is going, re-spraying is probably not going to happen by me. Usually the HO's just ask if there is anyway to keep the sprayed look when it is repainted. It can look a little plastic. The surfaces that look wroing to me with brushmarks on them are the flat, smooth and wide MDF trim popular on new homes now. 

I do have one customer who loves the traditional look of brushed doors. On their cottage on Lake MI they even keep there wood screen doors, even though they can be a hassle for maintenance. They love the feel and sound of real wood doors closing (a xound that is almost extinct like the pull chain on lights). They had a pipe break this winter and their original wood front door (probably 80 years old) was ruined by the water (rotted out the bottm section). It was a painted door. It was cool to look at the peeled paint on the ruined door and see the color record it left behind.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Sprayed lacquer is NICE, not plastic!


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

DeanV said:


> On their cottage on Lake MI they even keep there wood screen doors, even though they can be a hassle for maintenance. They love the feel and sound of real wood doors closing (a xound that is almost extinct like the pull chain on lights).


I think I like those people.

I have MADE screen doors for people who refuse to loose that traditional feel and sound. 

There really is nothing like it, especially in a lakeside cottage. :thumbup:


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Workaholic said:


> This post helps no one and you know it.
> Nathan covered the topic and it was clear.
> Why not post your frustrations in that thread rather than let it spill over into other threads? If you want to respond please please do so in the censorship thread so this guys thread does not got all muddy.


Just honing up on my self-censorship skills Sean. Who better to do it then me?


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## brushmstr (Feb 15, 2009)

Spraying is far easier. Mask off everything, sand and caulk trim. Spray an oil based primer like kilz or bins coverstain. This will prevent any bleed. Sand primer and spray latex semi. Don't worry about overspray on walls, just sand it with 120 and your ready for first coat on walls. Good Luck


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## concrete effects (Jul 27, 2009)

Thanks for the info guys. We have already bid the job & yes; it was priced to (brush) all trim. Would prefer not to sand due to dust even using shop vac to collecet that's why i prefer de-glosser probaly DIF. We almost always use Ben moore satim impervo oil for all trim but thought we could save a step by using iron clad. May just de-gloos, prime with high hide cover stain oil and 2 coats of impervo. May need to prime with the (odorless oil cover stain) to keep them happy tho. Impervo is expensive but it works & closes well, always had good luck with it... For the doors since they are flat panel to use the 4" whizz (velour) rollers they really put a nice finish on.


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## AJGliebe (Jul 22, 2009)

With stained wood, I degrease then sand then wipe clean again with crud cutter or something stronger if need be. Then brush on bonding primer and 2 coats of paint.
Its nice to spray all those doors, but too much airborne paint. I think the homeowners would rather deal with the dust than with all the paint in the air.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

lol yeah, how would they appreciate dried bonding primer all over their counters and marble floors, etc. I don't see how you could spray all that in a occupied home, without a complete mess. And if you cover and mask everything needed, brushing sounds faster anyways.


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

daArch said:


> It's no secret that I was a brush man, but I have come to appreciate the nice smooth look of a good spray job.
> 
> YET, some HO's request that sprayed trim be brushed. They feel the long even brush strokes replicate the look of the wood grain, whereas the even look of a good spray job, looks "plastic"
> 
> How often do the rest of you hear this opinion/preference from your customers?


I work often in pre 50's houses and to have sprayed ww is just not right on older homes. It's almost as bad as a popcorn ceiling on those. Ain't right. And I have several dec's that go to me because I can still do it. Many painters here only spray, they're lost with a brush in enamel.


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