# Paint Failure!!!



## dubinpainting (Feb 16, 2010)

I did an estimate last night and the HO had painted their bathroom themselves with Valspar paint (not the recommended paint) a section of the painted wall had severely bubbled out almost like moisture had built up behind the paint and caused it to fail. I was thinking this could be a problem referred to as (Wrinkling) “A rough crinkled surface which occurs when uncured paint forms a skin” but it seemed a lot worse than that. There where definitely air pockets underneath the dried paint, that could all be scraped off, but I want to be sure of what the problem actually is before I tell the HO anything……Any ideas of what this could be, and the correct way to fix it?
Thx D


----------



## Roadog (Apr 18, 2007)

In a bathroom......bad prep. Probably hair spray or similar. Painted right over.....then bubbles happen! Could it be moisture? Could.


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Sounds like moisture.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Does this bath have an exhaust fan? If it does, is it under powered for the room size?


----------



## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

I agree on the posibility of moisture. Take a moisture meter reading of the wall before you do anything.


----------



## ajpace (Jan 6, 2008)

9 times out of 10, paint failures in a bathroom are caused by poor surface prep. Steam from bathing or showering carries soap particles with it. I'll stick to the walls, then, re-emulsify when painted over with a water-based paint. All walls should be washed prior to painting or priming. However, in a bathroom, this step is mandatory. Make sure to use a detergent to wash the walls...something that does not leave a residue on its own. AFM SuperClean, Shakley Basic H, something along those lines.


----------



## Different Strokes (Dec 8, 2010)

ajpace said:


> 9 times out of 10, paint failures in a bathroom are caused by poor surface prep. Steam from bathing or showering carries soap particles with it. I'll stick to the walls, then, re-emulsify when painted over with a water-based paint. All walls should be washed prior to painting or priming. However, in a bathroom, this step is mandatory. Make sure to use a detergent to wash the walls...something that does not leave a residue on its own. AFM SuperClean, Shakley Basic H, something along those lines.


I agree, and don't be surprised if you do all this prep work, and after the new paint is applied it starts bubbling again in new areas of the wall. Unfortunately contaminants must have been painted over(excluding the moisture possibility) and the new paint may cause some new areas of the existing "weak layer" of paint to give way. could be a time bomb. good luck :yes:


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

it wasn't prepped right, period.


----------



## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

I'd scrape off all I could, and then (oil) Coverstain the whole thing.


----------



## dubinpainting (Feb 16, 2010)

jack pauhl said:


> Does this bath have an exhaust fan? If it does, is it under powered for the room size?


Not too sure about that one!


----------



## dubinpainting (Feb 16, 2010)

Thanks for all the advice!


----------



## dubinpainting (Feb 16, 2010)

Here are the pictures of the paint falure.......anyone ever seen it like this before?


----------



## dubinpainting (Feb 16, 2010)

I couldent upload the photo so check out the link.... http://www.flickr.com/photos/dndpainters/5339373668/


----------



## Nigel (Dec 30, 2010)

*>>>*

LOL I would hate to see what hiding behind that mess. I've never seen latex sag like that. Almost looks like there was a waterfall there.


----------



## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

dubinpainting said:


> I couldent upload the photo so check out the link.... http://www.flickr.com/photos/dndpainters/5339373668/


I saw one of those just last Friday.
Shower on the floor above had been leaking, and water got between the paint and plaster below.

Scrape it off, and see if there's a water stain behind it.


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Yea some water getting in there for sure, never seen one that big. Bet there is dw mud behind it.


----------



## BC_Painter (Feb 14, 2010)

straight_lines said:


> Yea some water getting in there for sure, never seen one that big. Bet there is dw mud behind it.


Only time I've ever seen that was when water was behind it as well, either that or the steam is hitting it hard enough to almost "melt" the coating causing the sagging after it had already dried flat.


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Doesnt look like moisture...looks from the photo like the paint was over applied, and probably re-coated too quickly. Ive seen that happen before with Behr...usually happens near the ceiling, or cuts near door/window casings where the roll over the brush cut was too quick and heavy.


Blistering = moisture
Wrinkling = over application or loss of adhesion, and sometimes both.


----------



## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

NCPaint1 said:


> Doesnt look like moisture...looks from the photo like the paint was over applied, and probably re-coated too quickly. Ive seen that happen before with Behr...usually happens near the ceiling, or cuts near door/window casings where the roll over the brush cut was too quick and heavy.
> 
> 
> Blistering = moisture
> Wrinkling = over application or loss of adhesion, and sometimes both.


hmmm...maybe
Let's see if he finds water stain behind it.

Like I said, I saw a wrinkle exactly like that last week. Water behind the paint was the culprit.

But I'd like to say I have a lot of respect for you paint store owners. You have to know enough to explain the simplest stuff to the DIY's, and answer the most difficult questions from the pros.

so...:thumbsup: to you


----------



## painterdude (Jun 18, 2008)

Wet...either behind, or they used the shower etc. before the paint was cured. Most likely moisture problem in the wall. Scrape it all off, tape a square of plastic wrap to in and come back in a day or so. If it's got condensation inside it's a recurring problem. Old school I know, but don't trust all those meters etc. Hey, I'm old.


----------



## Wood511 (Dec 13, 2010)

I vote moisture also based on the picture. With all due respect to NCPaint, why wouldn't more of the wall be affected if this were exclusively an adhesion issue? It looks dry on both sides, like a small amount of water ran down behind over a longer period of time...like dripping/slow trickle for hours or even a day or two. It wasn't so much water to cause blisters/bubbles. I'd like to see a photo of the entire wall.


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Wood511 said:


> I vote moisture also based on the picture. With all due respect to NCPaint, why wouldn't more of the wall be affected if this were exclusively an adhesion issue? It looks dry on both sides, like a small amount of water ran down behind over a longer period of time...like dripping/slow trickle for hours or even a day or two. It wasn't so much water to cause blisters/bubbles. I'd like to see a photo of the entire wall.



Have you seen HO's apply paint? :whistling2: Many times its paper thin, and they stretch a gallon over 800'....or they glop it on way to heavy and end up with sags. That looks like classic Chitty application ( at least in the picture ) combined with a Chitty product. Those products also like to do that when they're over applied over a semi-gloss finish...( seen that many times on trim/doors ) havent seen it happen on walls yet...but just because I havent seen it happen doesnt mean its not possible.


I went and looked at a HO job ( paint complaint ) The guy slopped it on so heavy...there were lap marks everywhere when he didnt lay it off properly..and you could see just about every spot where his initial roll was after loading paint. Like a big slide mark with no stipple, it was pretty awesome :thumbsup:


----------



## Faron79 (Dec 11, 2007)

NC...
Yeah...those HO's....it could "never be MY fault...must be the paint"!!

People think good painting is so simple that even their Golden-Retriever could do it. Obviously not!
It even applies to a minority of painters too though...

We went to look at a medical-office job where a "union" painter was working...complained about the paint. Complaining about coverage, etc. It was the high-end C2 paint. It was a deep gold/tan color. Our jaws hit the floor when we saw it! Looked like H*ll!
He argued that "I've been painting for 20yrs....blah-blah-blah..., and haven't had this problem". Undoubtedly using only contractor-grade whites,...., etc.
He was just flingin' his roller all over, not laying-off, etc. We showed him how this kind of color should go on and laid-off. Within a few minutes, a whole crew of trades was watching this "lesson" to this painter!

Funny...the area looked PERFECT when WE applied it!!

Faron


----------



## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

ajpace said:


> Steam from bathing or showering carries soap particles with it. I'll stick to the walls, then, re-emulsify when painted over with a water-based paint. QUOTE]
> 
> 
> so you think soap diluted 100,000-1 with WATER evaporated then traveled through the air and landed on a wall then re-emulsified is gonna be strong enough to force dry latex off the wall??? some strong ''particles'' you are getting to deep into painting
> ...


----------

