# How much should I charge per sq. ft. for interior painting?



## pain-ter

Hi everyone!

I know I am asking a lot for an accurate estimate for an interior paint job, but I thought it best to ask the experts.

Ok, I am in California, a friend just asked me to paint the entire interior of the house.

I usually only do exterior jobs.

Can someone give me a rough estimate on how much to charge per sq. ft.?

I will go to see the house in 2 hours.

Here is what I think she will ask:

2 coats
all walls, ceilings.

What should I charge for only walls and ceilings?

Next, what if she asks me to include the doors and all trim?

How should I bid that?

Last, she just purchased the home, and there is no furniture at all, so no moving of items.

I do have a brand new Graco 395, so I thought it would probably be best to spray and roll.

I would like to use Kelly Moore's best interior or Home Depot's Behr Premium Plus.

Please help me give an accurate estimate.

I need help fast.

Thank you,

Pain-ter


----------



## TJ Paint

I would charge enough to make it worth it.

If she wants trim done, I would write that up separately from the other components. 

I wouldn't spray, except possibly the ceilings, and trim. 

Interior painting is quite a different animal than exterior. Me thinks you may not even get that since you are asking sf pricing. On a res repaint interior, it's completely irrelevant to price it by the sf.

Can you figure out why?


----------



## BrushJockey

Tree fiddy?


----------



## RH

Totally non-helpful response: C'mon... you're not brand new here so you should by now how pricing questions generally get treated. Please don't expect someone to give you an actual number.

Slightly more-helpful response: Use _*your*_ experience to determine prep and then paint time for each room. Heck, break it down to each surface (each wall, ceiling, closet(s), doors, trim, windows) in each room. Use that for your time basis. Then calculate materials. Add in a comfortable extra % margin to account for error.

If you get it, keep track of how long it takes you to do everything so you'll have a basis for future estimating. 

Good luck.


----------



## pain-ter

TJ Paint said:


> I would charge enough to make it worth it.
> 
> If she wants trim done, I would write that up separately from the other components.
> 
> I wouldn't spray, except possibly the ceilings, and trim.
> 
> Interior painting is quite a different animal than exterior. Me thinks you may not even get that since you are asking sf pricing. On a res repaint interior, it's completely irrelevant to price it by the sf.
> 
> Can you figure out why?


TJ,

Thank you for your reply. Well, yes, I realize interior is quite different than exterior. And I have done substantial interior painting, but never with an estimate...always by the hour.

This lady would like me to give a sq. ft. price.

I googled interior paint prices and I am seeing everything from $.70 all the way up to $4.75!

Wow!

What a difference!

Come on now, can someone give me an in the ball park estimate on a sq. ft. price for an interior paint job, minimal prep?

Thanks,

Pain=ter


----------



## ReNt A PaInTeR

I would PM NEPS and asking him. don't forget to mention Home Depot's Behr Premium Plus. I hope that helps. :thumbup:


----------



## TJ Paint

why does she want a sf price?

Just look at the job, figure out how much you should make, and divide by the sf. There is your sf price.


----------



## pain-ter

researchhound said:


> Totally non-helpful response: C'mon... you're not brand new here so you should by now how pricing questions generally get treated. Please don't expect someone to give you an actual number.
> 
> Slightly more-helpful response: Use _*your*_ experience to determine prep and then paint time for each room. Heck, break it down to each surface (each wall, ceiling, closet(s), doors, trim, windows) in each room. Use that for your time basis. Then calculate materials. Add in a comfortable extra % margin to account for error.
> 
> If you get it, keep track of how long it takes you to do everything so you'll have a basis for future estimating.
> 
> Good luck.


Research Hound,

Thank you for your reply. Well, the problem is, I have ALWAYS way underestimated my labor hours on so many jobs, and I would like to avoid that mistake this time around.

I will do my best to keep track of my labor this time around.

Can anyone here at Painttalk help me discover an in the ball park estimate
for bidding by the sq. ft. on an interior job?

Thank you,

Pain-ter


----------



## ReNt A PaInTeR

pain-ter said:


> TJ,
> 
> Thank you for your reply. Well, yes, I realize interior is quite different than exterior. And I have done substantial interior painting, but never with an estimate...always by the hour.
> 
> This lady would like me to give a sq. ft. price.
> 
> I googled interior paint prices and I am seeing everything from $.70 all the way up to $4.75!
> 
> Wow!
> 
> What a difference!
> 
> Come on now, can someone give me an in the ball park estimate on a sq. ft. price for an interior paint job, minimal prep?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Pain=ter


Never charge sq.ft. pricing on residential.

What's minimum prep.? Is that how she said it.


----------



## TJ Paint

It seems some people just don't get that they need to learn how to price things themselves since they are the ones doing the job.

Maybe this guy will eventually. 

Good luck bud.

p.s. what kind of paint are you using?


----------



## RH

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> I would PM NEPS and asking him. don't forget to mention Home Depot's Behr Premium Plus. I hope that helps. :thumbup:


Edgar - I intentionally held off posting the popcorn eating emoticon since I didn't want to step on your toes. What gives?


----------



## RH

pain-ter said:


> TJ,
> 
> Thank you for your reply. Well, yes, I realize interior is quite different than exterior. And I have done substantial interior painting, but never with an estimate...always by the hour.
> 
> This lady would like me to give a sq. ft. price.
> 
> I googled interior paint prices and I am seeing everything from $.70 all the way up to $4.75!
> 
> Wow!
> 
> What a difference!
> 
> Come on now, can someone give me an in the ball park estimate on a sq. ft. price for an interior paint job, minimal prep?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Pain=ter


Just tell her you don't bid it that way. I tell people that all the time and it's the truth since I have never given a sq. ft. price in my entire career. Just use your experience to calculate a bottom line number and give it to her. If she insists then walk away.

I never trust customers who start off trying to dictate my procedures to me. It will only get worse as the job progresses.


----------



## ReNt A PaInTeR

researchhound said:


> Just tell her you don't bid it that way. I tell people that all the time and it's the truth since I have never given a sq. ft. price in my entire career. Just use your experience to calculate a bottom line number and give it to her. If she insists then walk away.
> 
> I never trust customers who start off trying to dictate my procedures to me. It will only get worse as the job progresses.


^^^^^^ what he said ^^^^^^


----------



## aaron61

Is this for real????????
Dude...if you are always way under estimating your hours then you need to go work for someonelse.You obviously arent learning from your own mistakes. Not trying to be mean,just honest.
When ever someone(notice I didn't say customer,because this is a red flag that they are a tight ass and you should walk away)asks foe a sqft price I tell them that will only calculate a close idea of how much paint we will need. There is no such thing as a sqft price for residential.Unless you want to reverse engineer it for her.


----------



## ProWallGuy

There is no such thing as the "going rate." 
If I tell you what I charge, you'd be screwed because I paint fast like Superman on blow. 
Or, I'm slow like a turtle. 
So, any price WE give you won't do you any good.


----------



## RH

aaron61 said:


> Is this for real????????
> Dude...if you are always way under estimating your hours then you need to go work for someonelse.You obviously arent learning from your own mistakes. Not trying to be mean,just honest.
> When ever someone(notice I didn't say customer,because this is a red flag that they are a tight ass and you should walk away)asks foe a sqft price I tell them that will only calculate a close idea of how much paint we will need. There is no such thing as a sqft price for residential.Unless you want to reverse engineer it for her.


^Yep. Sq. ft. questions = tire kicker/price shopper. Also, she's already likely sensed a lack of confidence on your part and may be using that to bully you into giving her a great deal. Remember, you've already had the experience of under bidding other jobs so don't go there again. Give her a number that seems fair to both of you, stand by it, and let her take it or leave it.


----------



## Gough

pain-ter said:


> TJ,
> 
> Thank you for your reply. Well, yes, I realize interior is quite different than exterior. And I have done substantial interior painting, but never with an estimate...always by the hour.
> 
> This lady would like me to give a sq. ft. price.
> 
> I googled interior paint prices and I am seeing everything from $.70 all the way up to $4.75!
> 
> Wow!
> 
> What a difference!
> 
> Come on now, can someone give me an in the ball park estimate on a sq. ft. price for an interior paint job, minimal prep?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Pain=ter


You've already gotten a lot of good advice here. I'll add one more piece: some hacks were (maybe still are) quoting square foot prices for new construction based on floor area, while other square foot prices are based on the actual area of painted surface. The Means Construction Estimate books had (have??) numbers like the latter.


----------



## ReNt A PaInTeR

Gough said:


> You've already gotten a lot of good advice here. I'll add one more piece: some hacks were (maybe still are) quoting square foot prices for new construction based on floor area, while other square foot prices are based on the actual area of painted surface. The Means Construction Estimate books had (have??) numbers like the latter.


Really dude. NC gets done by sq.ft. price here. Not residential. I guess we are all ****!ng hacks around here then. BTW sq.ft price is based on the heated space. But there is always tons of extras.


----------



## Gough

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> Really dude. NC gets done by sq.ft. price here. Not residential. I guess we are all ****!ng hacks around here then. BTW sq.ft price is based on the heated space. But there is always tons of extras.


Sorry, no offense. I was just speaking for how things are done around here. I also wanted the OP to understand that when painters are talking about "square-foot price" there are two very different definitions.

And yet another reason that we left the NC game....


----------



## Jtpaintalot

Well mr rookie the rates are always different in each area code. So dig around .. Ask at paint stores and record your hours always in the beginning like these guys say. Don't under bid whatever you do. In bc Canada it goes anywhere from 1.50( crack head rate) to $3.50 a sq foot of floor area depending on extras maybe more. Make sure you buy sealer to prime as it's cheaper and start will a lower amount of paint than you think so you don't over buy on your first house. Figure a half gal per coat in small bathrooms and 1.5 gal on average for a small bedroom if you r spraying. K that's all the tips you get today!


----------



## pain-ter

*I feel as if I kicked a hornet's nest!*

Gosh guys,

I feel as if I kicked a hornet's nest. So many snide, rude, negative and arrogant replies...also so much evil suspicion and false accusation toward my customer/friend that it is absolutely sickening.

I came here in humility to ask for help, and instead, people mock, scorn, deride, make fun of me, and give advice that is totally void of constructive criticism. Worst of all, it appears as if some of the most negative people are moderators and/or have some of the greatest number of posts here.

The lady that asked me to paint her home has no idea how much it would be. I simply told her I am not in the habit of giving estimates for interior paint jobs and that I did not really know how to give her an accurate estimate. She was very understanding and I was the one that suggested sq. ft. price and she said it sounded as if it might ok to do it that way.

I came to Painttalk.com hoping to find some positive, constructive and helpful advice and suggestions.

Know how I feel? I feel as if I just got shot to pieces by a bunch of negative, proud, arrogant, belligerent people who lack some of the very basic's of people skills.

Most of you are truly some of the poorest people I have ever contacted.

You should be ashamed of yourselves.

Now I wouldn't be surprised to be censured and quite possible kicked off this forum for speaking out against the mean spirited people that replied to my humble request for help.

You should change the name of this forum to PAIN/TALK.COM because in this situation, you have created more pain than help.

Pain-Ter


----------



## daArch

paint-er,

please take all these comments to heart. we ain't mean spirited just becasue we are all assholes (well, some of us are. I am almost a perfect one myself)

there is just no way anyone can give you a sq ft price in a market they do not know, for a job they have not seen, considering overhead they have no basis for, and for a person they never seen work.

now, you have said you've always screwed yourself on interior jobs, well, do like the rest of us did, LEARN from your mistakes. Bid this one higher. If you have experience, even bad ones, then you have a basis from which to price.


----------



## TrueColors

$400 a day covers my expenses and wage. Then I add paint on top of that. But I'm fast and specialized in interior re-paints. Everyone had there own way to estimate jobs/pricing.


----------



## gabe

Lets paint a 10 by 15 bedroom, 1) cover floors, remove switch plates, being in equipment 1 hr, spakle, caulk and sand, 1hr, 2 ct ceiling 2 hr. 2 coat walls 5 hrs, remove equipment, put back stuff, vac, 1 hr. total hrs 10 hrs total plus i1 g ceiling,2 wall paint. 10 hrs @40+$120 in paint = 520/150=$3.50 a floor ft. If ceilings and walls are same it will be faster, accent wall adds. Trim adds a lot. You could use the $200 per gallon plus paint method. Best way is knowing how long. It will take plus paint plus fudge factor.interior work is slower and fussier then exterior painting. This is a good site with helpful but cautious advice. Do good work and make a good wage.


----------



## Jtpaintalot

Hey man , didnt mean to offend either but when you are on a professional painting forum and you are asking how to price what did you expect? We have all gone through the apprentice ranks and heard the comments. Anyway good on ya for Taking on a new aspect of painting and trying interior on your own.


----------



## Oden

http://www.burnettpainting.com/

This guy posts his prices right on his sight. He had a whole thread about it a while back so he ain't hiding nothing. we're I u, OP I'd use his price list as a guide. Just sayin.


----------



## BrushJockey

This is a pro site. 
Read Arch's post carefully. That is why you have come here and asked a question that cannot be directly answered.
And you are not the first. 
You are the 500th. That is why there is a bit of a calloused attitude.

If you really want an education- read the sticky at the top..







Sticky: For new members and visitors: So you think you want to be a painting contractor?


----------



## ProWallGuy

The truth hurts, but it will set you free.


----------



## propainterJ

Only Paint Exteriors huh?

WTH happened to Painter's who do it all?

Int/Ext/Cabinets/Res/Comm/NC/RP/

If you cant figure out reasonably close what it will cost you to Paint this INT and then add in a profit,and then go make it happen even quicker then you projected,you should go work for someone who can.

Because you arent going to make any money working for yourself


----------



## CApainter

When I used to do side jobs, I would take pretty basic measurements, then calculate material quantities, and estimate how long it would take me to prep and paint.

Then I would give a real tight price because I rationalized that the homeowner expected a break since I wasn't paying overhead or taxes. They were always real nice to me, but now I can see that they were basically lowballing me. 

By the fourth weekend, after spending forty hours a week at my regular job, I was stressed, tired, and basically hated the homeowner for intimidating me into painting their house for cheap. 

Side jobs ruined me and my ambition to start my own business.


----------



## MikeCalifornia

If she is a friend, just charge her T&M, then no one gets bit in the ass!! You get paid regardless and she gets the most accurate rate. If you charge $35-40/hr that is pretty good in CA, $30 would be a really good deal for her, just charge material at cost plus 20% or so to cover all the overhead.

Then like everyone has said, use this info to figure out your pricing for the next job. I would not recommend figuring floor sq/ft but wall sq/ft pricing. Doing a floor sq/ft does not account for how high the walls are. GL


----------



## ExcaliburPainting

pain-ter said:


> Gosh guys,
> 
> I feel as if I kicked a hornet's nest. So many snide, rude, negative and arrogant replies...also so much evil suspicion and false accusation toward my customer/friend that it is absolutely sickening.
> 
> I came here in humility to ask for help, and instead, people mock, scorn, deride, make fun of me, and give advice that is totally void of constructive criticism. Worst of all, it appears as if some of the most negative people are moderators and/or have some of the greatest number of posts here.
> 
> The lady that asked me to paint her home has no idea how much it would be. I simply told her I am not in the habit of giving estimates for interior paint jobs and that I did not really know how to give her an accurate estimate. She was very understanding and I was the one that suggested sq. ft. price and she said it sounded as if it might ok to do it that way.
> 
> I came to Painttalk.com hoping to find some positive, constructive and helpful advice and suggestions.
> 
> Know how I feel? I feel as if I just got shot to pieces by a bunch of negative, proud, arrogant, belligerent people who lack some of the very basic's of people skills.
> 
> Most of you are truly some of the poorest people I have ever contacted.
> 
> You should be ashamed of yourselves.
> 
> Now I wouldn't be surprised to be censured and quite possible kicked off this forum for speaking out against the mean spirited people that replied to my humble request for help.
> 
> You should change the name of this forum to PAIN/TALK.COM because in this situation, you have created more pain than help.
> 
> Pain-Ter


*Dude, you rock! Tell these boyz like it is!*

I will help you my brother... 



 Walls & Ceiling space: .50 sq., ft., (baths & kitchens add 30%), (add 25% for height).
 Trim - 3" basetrim 1.00 per LF.
 Door frame (2) sides - $25 to $30
 Door (2) sides - $25 to $30
 
*Prep work is not included.


----------



## pain-ter

daArch said:


> paint-er,
> 
> please take all these comments to heart. we ain't mean spirited just becasue we are all assholes (well, some of us are. I am almost a perfect one myself)
> 
> there is just no way anyone can give you a sq ft price in a market they do not know, for a job they have not seen, considering overhead they have no basis for, and for a person they never seen work.
> 
> now, you have said you've always screwed yourself on interior jobs, well, do like the rest of us did, LEARN from your mistakes. Bid this one higher. If you have experience, even bad ones, then you have a basis from which to price.


Take all this heart? Interesting comment. Most of the posts previous to this only caused me pain. I'd rather not take them to heart. 

I have attempted to learn from my mistakes but somehow I struggle immensely with estimating the hourly labor costs on nearly every job I have done since I obtained my contractor's license in 2005.

Estimating the paint is so easy for me, but the labor estimate for me has always been a struggle. That is why I came here for help.



TrueColors said:


> $400 a day covers my expenses and wage. Then I add paint on top of that. But I'm fast and specialized in interior re-paints. Everyone had there own way to estimate jobs/pricing.


Thank you for helping me have a rough estimate on how you charge. Your post has been very helpful and I would like to say thank you.



gabe said:


> Lets paint a 10 by 15 bedroom, 1) cover floors, remove switch plates, being in equipment 1 hr, spakle, caulk and sand, 1hr, 2 ct ceiling 2 hr. 2 coat walls 5 hrs, remove equipment, put back stuff, vac, 1 hr. total hrs 10 hrs total plus i1 g ceiling,2 wall paint. 10 hrs @40+$120 in paint = 520/150=$3.50 a floor ft. If ceilings and walls are same it will be faster, accent wall adds. Trim adds a lot. You could use the $200 per gallon plus paint method. Best way is knowing how long. It will take plus paint plus fudge factor.interior work is slower and fussier then exterior painting. This is a good site with helpful but cautious advice. Do good work and make a good wage.


Amazing post for me. You have given me ideas that can make the challenging task of estimating much, much easier for me. Now, at least I can obtain an in the ball park estimate. I appreciate you taking the time to help me. I realize the formula you use is is meant for general use and I can add more for higher ceilings and such. Thank you again times 1,000!



Oden said:


> http://www.burnettpainting.com/
> 
> This guy posts his prices right on his sight. He had a whole thread about it a while back so he ain't hiding nothing. we're I u, OP I'd use his price list as a guide. Just sayin.


I read his entire website and found it to be totally amazing. I would like to use the same format he used on his website one day. He has to be one of the most upfront, honest guys I have ever read about. Oden, you really helped me a lot. Thank you very, very much!



ProWallGuy said:


> The truth hurts, but it will set you free.


Truth without love, patience, compassion, and understanding isn't truth at all, and it doesn't set people free, it wounds, hurts, and kills them. (EDIT: Too many religious references. Religious dogma banned from PT)



propainterJ said:


> Only Paint Exteriors huh?
> 
> WTH happened to Painter's who do it all?
> 
> Int/Ext/Cabinets/Res/Comm/NC/RP/
> 
> If you cant figure out reasonably close what it will cost you to Paint this INT and then add in a profit,and then go make it happen even quicker then you projected,you should go work for someone who can.
> 
> Because you arent going to make any money working for yourself


I have done various types of painting...since 1973. Interior, exterior, metal, stucco, T-111, new/old sheet rock, oak/mahogany doors, etc. I painted full time for a school district, but I never gave estimates and did not pay attention to labor hours because I never imagined having my own company.

You recommend I give up and go back to work for someone else just because I need a little more help in the area of estimating interior jobs...

How encouraging!



MikeCalifornia said:


> If she is a friend, just charge her T&M, then no one gets bit in the ass!! You get paid regardless and she gets the most accurate rate. If you charge $35-40/hr that is pretty good in CA, $30 would be a really good deal for her, just charge material at cost plus 20% or so to cover all the overhead.
> 
> Then like everyone has said, use this info to figure out your pricing for the next job. I would not recommend figuring floor sq/ft but wall sq/ft pricing. Doing a floor sq/ft does not account for how high the walls are. GL


Great ideas and thanks again. Yes, I thought about charging T & M but in the past, that scared some of my customers far, far away. They thought I was trying to take advantage of them.

I read on the recommended Burnett's website to add 25% for 10 ft. high walls. I tried that and it looks very, very close to the estimate I was going to give the lady.

*Here's the measurements and specs on this house I would like to paint:

13,000 sq. ft. of walls and ceilings. I think that is nearly 105 gallons of paint [two coats on each wall and ceiling].

Living Room
Dining Room
Bedrooms [3]
Hallways [3]
Bathrooms [3]
Closets [5]
Kitchen

Small holes in walls [molly bolt plastics] and dings [135]

Trim and doors are all ok, and she says no need for paint.

Will need to prime two rooms due to light paint going over dark paint

Will need to remove a wall paper banner in one room.

No multicolored rooms

Each room will be one color

Two coats of paint everywhere

No furniture because she hasn't moved in yet

I have a new Graco 395, but someone said to brush and roller everything.

Not sure on labor...maybe somewhere between 80 and 100 hours?

I am thinking somewhere between $9,000 and $13,000 for the entire job, and $10,000-$12,000 seems like a good price but I am not sure.

*



CApainter said:


> When I used to do side jobs, I would take pretty basic measurements, then calculate material quantities, and estimate how long it would take me to prep and paint.
> 
> Then I would give a real tight price because I rationalized that the homeowner expected a break since I wasn't paying overhead or taxes. They were always real nice to me, but now I can see that they were basically lowballing me.
> 
> By the fourth weekend, after spending forty hours a week at my regular job, I was stressed, tired, and basically hated the homeowner for intimidating me into painting their house for cheap.
> 
> Side jobs ruined me and my ambition to start my own business.


Yes, I hear your pain and I have made a decision to not estimate jobs where I am making under $20 again. That is why I am asking for help.

Finally, I was never good at math for my entire life. 

This is why I am here to ask for help too.

Pain-ter


----------



## TJ Paint

You going to have somebody bid all your jobs for you for the rest of your career?

You may want to find a partner that knows how to do it. Either that or learn how to do it. 

p.s. are you just trolling us?


----------



## ExcaliburPainting

TJ Paint said:


> You going to have somebody bid all your jobs for you for the rest of your career?
> 
> You may want to find a partner that knows how to do it. Either that or learn how to do it.
> 
> p.s. are you just *trolling us*?


It looks to me like a pretty serious guy that didn't get the answers he expected from a professional painting contractors forum.


----------



## ProWallGuy

pain-ter said:


> I have attempted to learn from my mistakes but somehow I struggle immensely with estimating the hourly labor costs on nearly every job I have done since I obtained my contractor's license in 2005.


You've been struggling to estimate labor since 2005? You'd think after 7 years you would have figured it out somewhat, but I'm guessing your wife has a great job?


----------



## ProWallGuy

ExcaliburPainting said:


> It looks to me like a pretty serious guy that didn't get the answers he expected from a professional painting contractors forum.


That is a shame because he got the correct answer, that none of us could correctly answer his question.


----------



## TJ Paint

pain-ter said:


> Estimating the paint is so easy for me, but the labor estimate for me has always been a struggle.
> 
> 
> I painted full time for a school district, but I never gave estimates and did not pay attention to labor hours because I never imagined having my own company.


If you have painted full time in the past for any length of time, I don't see what is so difficult about assigning times to particular tasks. About how long will it take to paint this wall, ceiling, door frame, etc. How long will it take to sand and clean this surface... How long will it take to drive to the paint store and pick up the paint and materials...

Add it all up, and double that time. Keep track of every task while doing it. Make a list so you can use it as a reference next time. This isn't rocket science.

Question: why did you offer to give her a quote in sf? What did you think that offered her that a simple price for the entire project didn't?

If somehow, you got a number to use for this job on this site, and it magically worked for you, are you going to post every job you have to bid on here and ask for us to price it for you? The thing is, I don't give prices over the phone when somebody calls me up about a job, how could I for you?

Godspeed.


----------



## pain-ter

ExcaliburPainting said:


> *Dude, you rock! Tell these boyz like it is!*
> 
> I will help you my brother...
> 
> 
> 
> Walls & Ceiling space: .50 sq., ft., (baths & kitchens add 30%), (add 25% for height).
> Trim - 3" basetrim 1.00 per LF.
> Door frame (2) sides - $25 to $30
> Door (2) sides - $25 to $30
> 
> *Prep work is not included.


ExcaliburPainting, Thank you again for helping me have a system that can help me double check to see if I am at least close to an accurate estimate!



ProWallGuy said:


> You've been struggling to estimate labor since 2005? You'd think after 7 years you would have figured it out somewhat, but I'm guessing your wife has a great job?


ProWallGuy,

Yes, for more than that actually. My wife have a good job? Yes, she paints with me [when she is not working as a teacher]!



ExcaliburPainting said:


> It looks to me like a pretty serious guy that didn't get the answers he expected from a professional painting contractors forum.


Yes, I am serious and just trying to get a little assistance with estimating.



TJ Paint said:


> You going to have somebody bid all your jobs for you for the rest of your career?
> 
> You may want to find a partner that knows how to do it. Either that or learn how to do it.
> 
> p.s. are you just trolling us?


No, I hope to learn from the experts how to do it right.
No, I cannot afford a partner
No, I never troll, it is a total waste of time and counter productive



ProWallGuy said:


> That is a shame because he got the correct answer, that none of us could correctly answer his question.


LOL! Well, $9000-$13,000 still has a wide margin for error...

Still trying to narrow it down. Anyone care to help me a little more?



TJ Paint said:


> If you have painted full time in the past for any length of time, I don't see what is so difficult about assigning times to particular tasks. About how long will it take to paint this wall, ceiling, door frame, etc. How long will it take to sand and clean this surface... How long will it take to drive to the paint store and pick up the paint and materials...
> 
> Add it all up, and double that time. Keep track of every task while doing it. Make a list so you can use it as a reference next time. This isn't rocket science.
> 
> Question: why did you offer to give her a quote in sf? What did you think that offered her that a simple price for the entire project didn't?
> 
> If somehow, you got a number to use for this job on this site, and it magically worked for you, are you going to post every job you have to bid on here and ask for us to price it for you? The thing is, I don't give prices over the phone when somebody calls me up about a job, how could I for you?
> 
> Godspeed.


Yes, I began keeping track of labor hours after I realized I was making less than $8 per hour on some of the jobs I did [I take full responsibility for my foolishness too...I have no one to blame but myself].

I gave a quote in SF because I saw several websites that gave recommended SF estimates and the National Painting Cost Estimator Book by Gleason does the same.

No, I will not ask for help at this forum on every job I have...

Wanna know why?

It is way too painful here because too many people are really, really cruel, rude, mean, and ugly when I simply asked for a little help.

I will look for a new paint talk website where the people are kind, decent, knowledgeable, and know how to treat each other with a little more love.

I experienced the same exact type of cruelness at a forum for computer geeks. Later, I discovered a site where the moderators and helpers had an incredible level of basic people skills. Now, I nearly always take my questions there. I do not like to be around abusive people. It hurts me too much.

Pain-Ter


----------



## straight_lines

PT needs to implement the same rule as CT. Asking for someone to tell you how much you should charge is forbidden. The thread is lock end of story. 

I can't believe someone would actually come to an online forum and ask other professionals what to charge. Get some experience working for someone, or learn the hard way. No one here owes you anything Painter.


----------



## Damon T

How much should I charge to close this thread?


----------



## RH

I warned him clear back in post #4 that this might not go well. 

Have to admit, there hasn't been so much drama in a thread since _Philly_ left... hmmmm.


----------



## daArch

pain-ter said:


> I gave a quote in SF because I saw several websites that gave recommended SF estimates and the National Painting Cost Estimator Book by Gleason does the same.


Sorry if I am being cruel, rude, mean, and ugly (I was born that way, can't help what my mother spit out) but then why the hell don't you USE those figures ???

That's what I did. But it didn't take me seven years to go to the library and study the Means Estimating Guide. I used their numbers as a starting point. Took my notes and developed my own rates. But I was always good in math. You may have SERIOUS issues if you have trouble with math. You may want to hire an estimator. BTW, you may not be able to afford NOT to. 


And also consider the time you spend struggling with each estimate. Or the time you've spent here on this subject. Have you figured your time spent in these endeavors into your overhead?


----------



## RH

Pain-ter, there is no other paint site than paint talk. This site has proved invaluable to me and it will for you too if you take the good and not get your feelings hurt so easily. 

There is no shortcut to learning how to estimate. "give a man a sq. ft. price, feed him for a job, teach him how to estimate, guarantee he'll price himself out of work" or something like that.


----------



## pain-ter

straight_lines said:


> PT needs to implement the same rule as CT. Asking for someone to tell you how much you should charge is forbidden. The thread is lock end of story.
> 
> I can't believe someone would actually come to an online forum and ask other professionals what to charge. Get some experience working for someone, or learn the hard way. No one here owes you anything Painter.


Well, I did not know it was forbidden to ask people how much to charge. So, I must admit, that is 100% my fault and I take 100% responsibility for this, and I will not ask again.

I am thankful that some people here have patiently helped me learn some of the basics of estimating that I have been sorely lacking.

You are right, no one here owes me anything.

Lock the thread? Sure, but at least admit to the true reason for locking it: Some people do not like it after I speak out about the negativity and harshness here.



Gibberish45 said:


> Pain-ter, there is no other paint site than paint talk. This site has proved invaluable to me and it will for you too if you take the good and not get your feelings hurt so easily.
> 
> There is no shortcut to learning how to estimate. "give a man a sq. ft. price, feed him for a job, teach him how to estimate, guarantee he'll price himself out of work" or something like that.


Yes, I agree with you, many people here have kindly helped me and encouraged me since I have joined this site and much of the advice has been invaluable. You are so right.

It has also been fun and rewarding to share some of the insights I have learned in the trade.



daArch said:


> Sorry if I am being cruel, rude, mean, and ugly (I was born that way, can't help what my mother spit out) but then why the hell don't you USE those figures ???
> 
> That's what I did. But it didn't take me seven years to go to the library and study the Means Estimating Guide. I used their numbers as a starting point. Took my notes and developed my own rates. But I was always good in math. You may have SERIOUS issues if you have trouble with math. You may want to hire an estimator. BTW, you may not be able to afford NOT to.
> 
> 
> And also consider the time you spend struggling with each estimate. Or the time you've spent here on this subject. Have you figured your time spent in these endeavors into your overhead?


I cannot afford an estimator simply because I do not do enough business...have not done enough business in the past.

Yes, you are right. I have had serious estimating issues...I totally agree with you that when I make $6 per hour after all is said and done on a job, then something is terribly wrong.

Before I came here and asked these questions, I feel I was terribly lost on how to estimate. Now I feel I finally have some of the basics that can lead to far greater success. I kinda wish I had asked for help much sooner.

Thank you to everyone for helping me. I appreciate the positive and helpful attitude that many people here have shown me. Now I no longer feel so terribly lost. You have made me into a more professional businessman and I believe you have better equipped me to give much, much more accurate and fair estimates in the future.

Note to Moderators: If you would like to shut this thread down, I would understand.

Pain-Ter


----------



## RH

pain-ter said:


> Thank you to everyone for helping me. I appreciate the positive and helpful attitude that many people here have shown me. Now I no longer feel so terribly lost. You have made me into a more professional businessman and I believe you have better equipped me to give much, much more accurate and fair estimates in the future.


You've got a great attitude pain-ter. If you ever get sick of contracting I would totally pay you more than $6/hr (but not much)


----------



## Gough

MikeCalifornia said:


> If she is a friend, just charge her T&M, then no one gets bit in the ass!! You get paid regardless and she gets the most accurate rate. If you charge $35-40/hr that is pretty good in CA, $30 would be a really good deal for her, just charge material at cost plus 20% or so to cover all the overhead.
> 
> Then like everyone has said, use this info to figure out your pricing for the next job. I would not recommend figuring floor sq/ft but wall sq/ft pricing. Doing a floor sq/ft does not account for how high the walls are. GL


Not only does a price/floor ft^^2 not account for wall height, it assumes a certain average room size and shape. I think a lot of painters who bid NC based on it miss that point. 

It did make me wonder, how many of you guys working NC do bid based on floor ft^^2, versus doing a full take off to determine actual painted area? As Rent-A-Painter pointed out, pricing practices differ around the country. I always did a take off from the plans; we stopped doing new construction when the new crop of builders started calling for prices bases on floor square footage. It turned into a simple commodity and we decided to focus our efforts elsewhere, rather than trying to compete on price alone.


----------



## Rbriggs82

When we did NC I would double the price for any two story areas.


----------



## RH

I have automatic % upticks whenever the ceilings become more than the standard height. Same if stairwells are involved. More work = higher charges.
Just common sense. 



pain-ter said:


> Well, I did not know it was forbidden to ask people how much to charge. So, I must admit, that is 100% my fault and I take 100% responsibility for this, and I will not ask again.


It's not forbidden to ask, just that such questions never go well:

a) There are so many variables to bidding that trying to tell someone what to charge is just an exercise in futility. Similar to someone calling up and asking for a bid over the phone. Can you give them a number? Sure. Is it going to be accurate? Certainly not - so don't do it.

b) Most here have learned what a good rate is for _them_ to charge in _their_ area by years of experience and by taking it in the shorts a few times. Plus, there are many different ways to bid - sq.ft. pricing generally being one of the poorest (IMO). So when anyone comes here asking a bunch of professionals what to charge, it just doesn't go over well. 

c) To be honest, you actually got a pretty high number of helpful responses. Yes - a few people were less than helpful or "sensitive" with their replies. But chastising them and whining about how you were treated won't exactly improve the group's perception of you. Just ignoring the negative replies and having a sense of humor about it is a much better way to respond. Plus, you weren't exactly up front with the group in your OP were you? If you had mentioned then that the customer was a friend, and that it was you who suggested a bid based on sq. ft. (although I don't understand why you would if you didn't have a rate :blink, then the initial responses might have been somewhat different.

There are a lot of great and very knowledgeable people here on PT but most don't suffer fools gladly. Add to that your admission that you've been a painter since 1973 but you still don't have a clue how to bid interior work (yes - I read your explanations) and it creates a profile of someone who hasn't made any serious effort to learn _all_ aspects of the business. You should be able to understand how that also might not sit well with a group of professional painters. 

Not trying to bust your b---s here - just trying to explain how many may have viewed your question and responses and why it didn't go as well as you might have wished. Hope you don't leave PT all butt hurt but that you stick around, toughen and lighten up, and continue to learn what you can from the group. It really is a great resource for most aspects of the painting trade.

As for that job - just jump in, keep notes, and learn from the experience (oh - and buy a calculator ).


----------



## TJ Paint

The whole quoting in sf thing for a res repaint is totally fatuous. It adds a layer of possible confusion and miscommunication, and is not needed.

She want's to know who much the job is going to cost, plain and simple.

Seriously if you've been painting for several decades and can't figure out how to estimate successfully to where you are making enough, you might as well work at taco bell. 

Fun thread though, philly.


----------



## RH

TJ Paint said:


> you might as well work at taco bell.



Ok but all I've ever made is soft tacos. A friend of mine wants 300 Doritos locos tacos and 4 dozen enchiladas, how much should I charge per meat scoop? (she's providing the sour cream tubes)


----------



## Gough

Oops, double post. Sorry


----------



## Gough

TJ Paint said:


> The whole quoting in sf thing for a res repaint is totally fatuous. It adds a layer of possible confusion and miscommunication, and is not needed.


I learned that lesson the first (and only) time I did a sq ft quote on repaint...30+ years ago. It was a rental owned by a lawyer, which should have been a red flag, but I was young and foolish. Anyway, I gave him a number and we agreed. When it came time to settled up, he deducted the area of every spot not painted, down to the area of the TP holders in the bathrooms. For every lesson I learned from that job, he should have charged me tuition!


----------



## straight_lines

pain-ter said:


> Well, I did not know it was forbidden to ask people how much to charge. So, I must admit, that is 100% my fault and I take 100% responsibility for this, and I will not ask again.
> 
> I am thankful that some people here have patiently helped me learn some of the basics of estimating that I have been sorely lacking.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I agree with you, many people here have kindly helped me and encouraged me since I have joined this site and much of the advice has been invaluable. You are so right.
> 
> It has also been fun and rewarding to share some of the insights I have learned in the trade.
> 
> 
> Thank you to everyone for helping me. I appreciate the positive and helpful attitude that many people here have shown me. Now I no longer feel so terribly lost. You have made me into a more professional businessman and I believe you have better equipped me to give much, much more accurate and fair estimates in the future.
> 
> 
> Pain-Ter


http://www.painttalk.com/f4/pricing-estimating-success-2779/

Brian Phillips explains it better than anyone why we can't give you a price. It is impossible for us to do correctly.


----------



## CApainter

Example of a 12' X 12' X 8'H room to be painted [includes one 4' window sill, 1 closet entry, 1 side of door and casing, and 3" base board. One coat on all surfaces. Closet not included]

-Set up and minimal prep=1 hr
-1 coat/1 color ceiling and walls. Brush and roll= 1.5 hrs
-1 coat trim=1 hr
-Clean up=.5 hr

Labor =4 hrs @ $50.00 per hr.
Materials=$60.00
Total=$260.00

Foot print @ 144 sf= $1.80 per sf
Actual area to be painted @ 528 sf= .50 per sf

This could be a base line and adjusted upward for additional coats, trim packages, access, prep, etc.


Disclaimer: Remember, I'm the guy who doesn't own his own business.


----------



## daArch

I have house to paint, how much should I charge per gallon?


----------



## TJ Paint

TJ Paint said:


> The whole quoting in sf thing for a res repaint is totally *fatuous*.



Aww, come on... I thought I could solicit some type of response for that high priced word... 

Jeez.


----------



## RH

TJ Paint said:


> Aww, come on... I thought I could solicit some type of response for that high priced word...
> 
> Jeez.


Not very PC to be making weight remarks.:whistling2:


----------



## TJ Paint

I think next bid I do will be figured in gallons of paint used. 

Unless it's a trim job... Well, let's see, trim jobs the price per gallon will be 4x the price as per wall and ceiling...

Maybe I should just price it per tube of caulk...

Or per grams of spackle... 

Maybe per roller (especially if theres like 25 colors!)

Per ladders used?

Drop clothes?

Rolls of tape?

Miles to the paint store?

Per lunch breaks for the duration of the job?

Paces from street parking to the threshold of the front door?

Per amount of trips to the van to supply for job completion?

Hey, to really mess the customer up, just give them some multifaceted algebraic formula that incorporates 5-15 of these examples...


----------



## Gough

TJ Paint said:


> Aww, come on... I thought I could solicit some type of response for that high priced word...
> 
> Jeez.


TJ, I think we all assumed your PT account had been hacked:jester:


----------



## ExcaliburPainting

TJ Paint said:


> Fun thread though, philly.


Now he is from philly? Have you been inhaling M.E.K? 



TJ Paint said:


> I think next bid I do will be figured in gallons of paint used.
> 
> Unless it's a trim job... Well, let's see, trim jobs the price per gallon will be 4x the price as per wall and ceiling...
> 
> Maybe I should just price it per tube of caulk...
> 
> Or per grams of spackle...
> 
> Maybe per roller (especially if theres like 25 colors!)
> 
> Per ladders used?
> 
> Drop clothes?
> 
> Rolls of tape?
> 
> Miles to the paint store?
> 
> Per lunch breaks for the duration of the job?
> 
> Paces from street parking to the threshold of the front door?
> 
> Per amount of trips to the van to supply for job completion?
> 
> Hey, to really mess the customer up, just give them some multifaceted algebraic formula that incorporates 5-15 of these examples...


TJ, I don't have any problem pricing my jobs per sq., ft., 
Let me put it this way, I figure different sq., ft., prices for different rooms. There is not a flat sq., ft., rate for all... I also add percentages in for trips to the paint store and set up and clean up time which would be 15%. I developed my system for pricing and it has been tweaked to the max.

I stopped eyeballing jobs.

The OP can use my sq., ft., prices and tweak it over time, to work best for his needs.


----------



## Gough

TJ Paint said:


> I think next bid I do will be figured in gallons of paint used.
> 
> Unless it's a trim job... Well, let's see, trim jobs the price per gallon will be 4x the price as per wall and ceiling...
> 
> Maybe I should just price it per tube of caulk...
> 
> Or per grams of spackle...
> 
> Maybe per roller (especially if theres like 25 colors!)
> 
> Per ladders used?
> 
> Drop clothes?
> 
> Rolls of tape?
> 
> Miles to the paint store?
> 
> Per lunch breaks for the duration of the job?
> 
> Paces from street parking to the threshold of the front door?
> 
> Per amount of trips to the van to supply for job completion?
> 
> Hey, to really mess the customer up, just give them some multifaceted algebraic formula that incorporates 5-15 of these examples...


Multi-faceted?? First fatuous, now multi-faceted? What is going on?


We had a run for a while when we used the clients address for the bid. We tried to avoid doing any work close to downtown....


----------



## daArch

TJ Paint said:


> I think next bid I do will be figured in gallons of paint used.
> 
> Unless it's a trim job... Well, let's see, trim jobs the price per gallon will be 4x the price as per wall and ceiling...
> 
> Maybe I should just price it per tube of caulk...
> 
> Or per grams of spackle...
> 
> Maybe per roller (especially if theres like 25 colors!)
> 
> Per ladders used?
> 
> Drop clothes?
> 
> Rolls of tape?
> 
> Miles to the paint store?
> 
> Per lunch breaks for the duration of the job?
> 
> Paces from street parking to the threshold of the front door?
> 
> Per amount of trips to the van to supply for job completion?
> 
> Hey, to really mess the customer up, just give them some multifaceted algebraic formula that incorporates 5-15 of these examples...


I'm going to use my math skills to base my price on the differential between ounces of coffee consumed vs ounces of waste water my body produces while on the job.


----------



## Gough

daArch said:


> I'm going to use my math skills to base my price on the differential between ounces of coffee consumed vs ounces of waste water my body produces while on the job.


So that would actually be an indirect measure of how much you sweat on the job. I think you may be onto something. I've been known to include a multiplier for jobs on which it's clear that I'll have to work harder than usual.


----------



## daArch

TJ Paint said:


> TJ Paint said:
> 
> 
> 
> The whole quoting in sf thing for a res repaint is totally fatuous.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aww, come on... I thought I could solicit some type of response for that high priced word...
> 
> Jeez.
Click to expand...

Try something like this:

If it weren't for an obdurate personality, our advice would be considered.


----------



## daArch

Gough said:


> So that would actually be an indirect measure of how much you sweat on the job. I think you may be onto something. I've been known to include a multiplier for jobs on which it's clear that I'll have to work harder than usual.


A PC I knew back in the late 80's, used Lotus 123 to set up his estimating spread sheets, he had a column for the PITA factor. I've incorporated that into my formulas.


----------



## RH

daArch said:


> A PC I knew back in the late 80's, used Lotus 123 to set up his estimating spread sheets, he had a column for the PITA factor. I've incorporated that into my formulas.


I'm working on system similar to that for responding to PT posts. As you can see it still needs some serious adjusting since I'm still responding to posts from TJ, Steve, and you.  :whistling2: 

(Quick Patch! Hide!)


----------



## TJ Paint

Gough said:


> Multi-faceted?? First fatuous, now multi-faceted? What is going on?


In a previous life I had quite a run with some high-classed broads... I had to fake it for awhile. :thumbsup:


----------



## pain-ter

straight_lines said:


> http://www.painttalk.com/f4/pricing-estimating-success-2779/
> 
> Brian Phillips explains it better than anyone why we can't give you a price. It is impossible for us to do correctly.


Yes, you are right. I read Brian's post and it has an incredible amount of excellent business knowledge. Very, very helpful. 

Thanks again SL



CApainter said:


> Example of a 12' X 12' X 8'H room to be painted [includes one 4' window sill, 1 closet entry, 1 side of door and casing, and 3" base board. One coat on all surfaces. Closet not included]
> 
> -Set up and minimal prep=1 hr
> -1 coat/1 color ceiling and walls. Brush and roll= 1.5 hrs
> -1 coat trim=1 hr
> -Clean up=.5 hr
> 
> Labor =4 hrs @ $50.00 per hr.
> Materials=$60.00
> Total=$260.00
> 
> Foot print @ 144 sf= $1.80 per sf
> Actual area to be painted @ 528 sf= .50 per sf
> 
> This could be a base line and adjusted upward for additional coats, trim packages, access, prep, etc.
> 
> 
> Disclaimer: Remember, I'm the guy who doesn't own his own business.


Well, for a guy that does not own his own business, you sure know how to make things simple and easy.

Thanks again for giving me some excellent ideas on how to estimate a job.



ExcaliburPainting said:


> Now he is from philly? Have you been inhaling M.E.K?
> 
> 
> 
> TJ, I don't have any problem pricing my jobs per sq., ft.,
> Let me put it this way, I figure different sq., ft., prices for different rooms. There is not a flat sq., ft., rate for all... I also add percentages in for trips to the paint store and set up and clean up time which would be 15%. I developed my system for pricing and it has been tweaked to the max.
> 
> I stopped eyeballing jobs.
> 
> The OP can use my sq., ft., prices and tweak it over time, to work best for his needs.


Thanks and yes, I have begun to use some of your prices to obtain some good estimates.



daArch said:


> A PC I knew back in the late 80's, used Lotus 123 to set up his estimating spread sheets, he had a column for the PITA factor. I've incorporated that into my formulas.


Yes, my dad is a firm believer and user in Lotus 1-2-3.

I will ask him for some suggestions.

Thanks again for all the great posts and ideas here people

You have helped me much.

Have a good one!

Pain-Ter


----------



## TJ Paint

TJ Paint said:


> The whole quoting in sf thing for a res repaint is totally fatuous. _ It adds a layer of possible confusion and miscommunication, and is not needed._
> 
> _She want's to know who much the job is going to cost, plain and simple.
> _





TJ Paint said:


> Aww, come on... I thought I could solicit some type of response for that high priced word...
> 
> Jeez.





TJ Paint said:


> In a previous life I had quite a run with some high-classed broads... I had to fake it for awhile. :thumbsup:


But seriously, can you impart and intimate a portentous reason why a customer would want a sf price for a res repaint? I haven't procured one from anybody who is an agent to this praxis.


----------



## PeintureLavergne.com

Here's the measurements and specs on this house I would like to paint:

13,000 sq. ft. of walls and ceilings. I think that is nearly 105 gallons of paint [two coats on each wall and ceiling].

Living Room
Dining Room
Bedrooms [3]
Hallways [3]
Bathrooms [3]
Closets [5]
Kitchen

Small holes in walls [molly bolt plastics] and dings [135]

Trim and doors are all ok, and she says no need for paint.

Will need to prime two rooms due to light paint going over dark paint

Will need to remove a wall paper banner in one room.

No multicolored rooms

Each room will be one color

Two coats of paint everywhere

No furniture because she hasn't moved in yet

I have a new Graco 395, but someone said to brush and roller everything.

Not sure on labor...maybe somewhere between 80 and 100 hours?

I am thinking somewhere between $9,000 and $13,000 for the entire job, and $10,000-$12,000 seems like a good price but I am not sure.

120 hours .
13 000 / 400sqft (covrge)= 1st coat32.5 g+second coat 25 g=57 gs total
i think 9000 would be way ok...


----------



## Paradigmzz

TJ Paint said:


> I think next bid I do will be figured in gallons of paint used.



I like that.

I just finished a project and made 235.71 a gallon. But of those gallons, 4 gallons are still nearly full. Do I give a price break for partials? This math is so confusing :confused1:


----------



## Gough

Paradigmzz said:


> I like that.
> 
> I just finished a project and made 235.71 a gallon. But of those gallons, 4 gallons are still nearly full. Do I give a price break for partials? This math is so confusing :confused1:


Early on, we worked with an old, old painter who told us that he'd been taught a rule of thumb: charge 3 times the cost of your materials. If you're buying BM Regal in Northern Ontario (~$75/gal + GST), you're practically right on the money.

BTW, that old, old guy that I knew when I was starting out? He was probably younger than I am now. Seventy doesn't seem nearly as old as it used to.


----------



## Paradigmzz

Gough said:


> Early on, we worked with an old, old painter who told us that he'd been taught a rule of thumb: charge 3 times the cost of your materials. If you're buying BM Regal in Northern Ontario (~$75/gal + GST), you're practically right on the money.
> 
> BTW, that old, old guy that I knew when I was starting out? He was probably younger than I am now. Seventy doesn't seem nearly as old as it used to.


Your as old as you feel.  Gough, i have really appreciated your input on this site for what it's worth.


----------



## 6126

pain-ter said:


> Gosh guys,
> 
> I feel as if I kicked a hornet's nest. So many snide, rude, negative and arrogant replies...also so much evil suspicion and false accusation toward my customer/friend that it is absolutely sickening.
> 
> I came here in humility to ask for help, and instead, people mock, scorn, deride, make fun of me, and give advice that is totally void of constructive criticism. Worst of all, it appears as if some of the most negative people are moderators and/or have some of the greatest number of posts here.
> 
> The lady that asked me to paint her home has no idea how much it would be. I simply told her I am not in the habit of giving estimates for interior paint jobs and that I did not really know how to give her an accurate estimate. She was very understanding and I was the one that suggested sq. ft. price and she said it sounded as if it might ok to do it that way.
> 
> I came to Painttalk.com hoping to find some positive, constructive and helpful advice and suggestions.
> 
> Know how I feel? I feel as if I just got shot to pieces by a bunch of negative, proud, arrogant, belligerent people who lack some of the very basic's of people skills.
> 
> Most of you are truly some of the poorest people I have ever contacted.
> 
> You should be ashamed of yourselves.
> 
> Now I wouldn't be surprised to be censured and quite possible kicked off this forum for speaking out against the mean spirited people that replied to my humble request for help.
> 
> You should change the name of this forum to PAIN/TALK.COM because in this situation, you have created more pain than help.
> 
> Pain-Ter


Ok, think about it for a second...........this is a PUBLIC forum. That means anything we post is public. Why is it so hard to understand why pricing questions are frowned upon? I cant speak for the other members, but Im not putting my numbers out on the internet. The other thing is its different for eveyone. Know your #s. Your salary, overhead, production rates, etc will be different for everyone. Heres my suggestion.........Know your #s. First figure out the amount of paint needed. How much are you paying per gallon? Are you marking up your paint? Dont forget about sundries. Roller covers, masking tape, spackle, caulk, etc. get a complete total for all materials. Then figure out your total hours. For that you have to know your #s. How long does it take you to cut and roll a bedroom ceiling? Walls? How long does it take you to paint a bedroom? Prep and paint a door and a jamb? How many doors are there? Are there windows to paint? Closets? (Sometimes a closet takes as long to paint as a bedroom) Is there a stairway? Paint the base? Figure every single detail. Dont forget to figure set up and clean up time. Exactly how much prep is involved? Moving furniture? Removing switch plates. How much masking? How much time picking up materials? Are there multiple colors? Figure every single detail and total your hours. Figuring high is better than low. A painter once told me...."I never lost money on a job I didnt get"  How much do you plan on paying yourself? Do you have a rate per hour? Get a price for total labor. Now, figure out your overhead. How many days will this interior take you? I figure mine on a monthly basis and break that down to 20 work days per month, so if its a 3 day job I add 3 days of overhead. If you dont know your overhead I suggest you start there. There is plenty of info posted here at PT on overhead. Know your #s. So, now you have your materials, plus your labor, and your overhead. Now, last but not least.....profit. The reason we went into business. Know your #s. How much profit are you going for? 10% 15% 20% add that to the other 3 numbers and you now have a total. If you wanna divide the sq ft into the total, go for it. However, you will find it wont matter on the next interior cause too many things may be different. Keep a record of each job. How many hours go into each task. After a while you can come up witha "Historical cost" You will know how much it costs you to paint a bedroom, an interior, exterior, etc. The book you mentioned? By Gleason? I own a copy. Its a $5O paper weight. Oh yeah, I probably forgot to mention this......Know your #s. Heres the deal when it comes to Paint Talk.....This is an awesome site. It also depends on what you do with this site. The search function is your best friend here. Read and study. I love this site. Its been invaluable for me. I have learned a lot here and Ive been painting for over 30 years. Good luck :thumbsup:


----------



## 6126

Wow, I did all that typing before the thread got closed. :notworthy: Cool :thumbup:


----------



## RH

Woodland said:


> Wow, I did all that typing before the thread got closed. :notworthy: Cool :thumbup:


Mike - great post except you forgot one thing : _know your #s!_ 
Oh wait... uhhhhh... never mind.


----------



## TJ Paint

researchhound said:


> Mike - great post except you forgot one thing : _know your #s_


*Know your paragraphs!


----------



## Museum_Fab_Omaha

http://www.ppgpro.com/residential/pro-painter/services/job-estimating.aspx

This might help... I don't do this type of painting so I don't knwo how accurate it is.


----------



## Greenworks Painting

TJ Paint said:


> why does she want a sf price?
> 
> Just look at the job, figure out how much you should make, and divide by the sf. There is your sf price.


Very simple indeed! If she requests a price per sf then this would be a very simple solution! Experience tells me someone else quoted her a sf price and she is just trying to compare your price with the other guys 
___________________________________________________________________
Chicago Painter Chicago Painting Contractor Chicago Residential Painters Kenilworth Painters Glencoe Painting Contractor Glencoe Residential Painters North Shore Painters


----------



## RH

Paradigmzz said:


> Your as old as you feel.  Gough, i have really appreciated your input on this site for what it's worth.


Oh jeeze... don't* say* that! :shutup:


----------



## ProWallGuy

To answer the OP:

AMAYCG


----------



## ExcaliburPainting

Woodland said:


> Ok, think about it for a second...........this is a PUBLIC forum. That means anything we post is public. * Why is it so hard to understand why pricing questions are frowned upon?* I cant speak for the other members, but Im not putting my numbers out on the internet.* The other thing is its different for eveyone. Know your #s. Your salary, overhead, production rates, etc will be different for everyone.* Heres my suggestion.........Know your #s. First figure out the amount of paint needed. How much are you paying per gallon? Are you marking up your paint? Dont forget about sundries. Roller covers, masking tape, spackle, caulk, etc. get a complete total for all materials. Then figure out your total hours. For that you have to know your #s. How long does it take you to cut and roll a bedroom ceiling? Walls? How long does it take you to paint a bedroom? Prep and paint a door and a jamb? How many doors are there? Are there windows to paint? Closets? (Sometimes a closet takes as long to paint as a bedroom) Is there a stairway? Paint the base? Figure every single detail. Dont forget to figure set up and clean up time. Exactly how much prep is involved? Moving furniture? Removing switch plates. How much masking? How much time picking up materials? Are there multiple colors? Figure every single detail and total your hours. Figuring high is better than low. A painter once told me...."I never lost money on a job I didnt get"  How much do you plan on paying yourself? Do you have a rate per hour? Get a price for total labor. Now, figure out your overhead. How many days will this interior take you? I figure mine on a monthly basis and break that down to 20 work days per month, so if its a 3 day job I add 3 days of overhead. If you dont know your overhead I suggest you start there. There is plenty of info posted here at PT on overhead. Know your #s. So, now you have your materials, plus your labor, and your overhead. Now, last but not least.....profit. The reason we went into business. Know your #s. How much profit are you going for? 10% 15% 20% add that to the other 3 numbers and you now have a total. If you wanna divide the sq ft into the total, go for it. However, you will find it wont matter on the next interior cause too many things may be different. Keep a record of each job. How many hours go into each task. After a while you can come up witha "Historical cost" You will know how much it costs you to paint a bedroom, an interior, exterior, etc. The book you mentioned? By Gleason? I own a copy. Its a $5O paper weight. Oh yeah, I probably forgot to mention this......Know your #s. Heres the deal when it comes to Paint Talk.....This is an awesome site. It also depends on what you do with this site. The search function is your best friend here. Read and study. I love this site. Its been invaluable for me. I have learned a lot here and Ive been painting for over 30 years. Good luck :thumbsup:


- Target and Walmart know what one another charges! 

- If company XYZ is charging the highest prices due to "their salary, overhead, production rates" I want to know what they charge so I can come in $50 less than them. If they are charging $5,000 on a job, I will come it at $4,950... Even if their over head is triple what mine is, I will only beat them by 50 bucks. :thumbsup:


----------



## RH

ExcaliburPainting said:


> - Target and Walmart know what one another charges!
> 
> - If company XYZ is charging the highest prices due to "their salary, overhead, production rates" I want to know what they charge so I can come in $50 less than them. If they are charging $5,000 on a job, I will come it at $4,950... Even if their over head is triple what mine is, I will only beat them by 50 bucks. :thumbsup:


Just curious, how would you actually accomplish that on a consistent basis - or even once?


----------



## TJ Paint

ExcaliburPainting said:


> - Target and Walmart know what one another charges!
> 
> - If company XYZ is charging the highest prices due to "their salary, overhead, production rates" I want to know what they charge so I can come in $50 less than them. If they are charging $5,000 on a job, I will come it at $4,950... Even if their over head is triple what mine is, I will only beat them by 50 bucks. :thumbsup:


You're assuming a customer is going to make a decision solely based on a 1% difference in price... 

You can have as many of those customers you want. I will take the other type. Then you can post on here about things like the customer doing patching work on the walls and messing you up... ring a bell?

And also what RH said.


----------



## Gough

ExcaliburPainting said:


> - Target and Walmart know what one another charges!
> 
> - If company XYZ is charging the highest prices due to "their salary, overhead, production rates" I want to know what they charge so I can come in $50 less than them. If they are charging $5,000 on a job, I will come it at $4,950... Even if their over head is triple what mine is, I will only beat them by 50 bucks. :thumbsup:


Are you planning to try the bid peddling approach...or a Ouija board?

Seriously, I know we generally don't consider our clients to be the sharpest scrapers in the pouch, but you don't think everyone but the dimmest client would see through this?

This hardly seems like the approach one would use to build up a reputation. I guess you'd build up a reputation all right, but it might not be the one you want.


----------



## ExcaliburPainting

TJ Paint said:


> You're assuming a customer is going to make a decision solely based on a 1% difference in price...


No TJ! It looks like you are assuming that I am assuming a customer is going to make a decision solely based on a 1% difference in price...



TJ Paint said:


> You can have as many of those customers you want. I will take the other type.


What type?



TJ Paint said:


> Then you can post on here about things like the customer doing patching work on the walls and messing you up... ring a bell?
> 
> And also what RH said.


I am waiting for a job where the customer does the complete job for me and then writes me a check! 

And another thing - I don't do bells or whistles!


----------



## ExcaliburPainting

researchhound said:


> Just curious, how would you actually accomplish that on a consistent basis - or even once?


I think my post was misunderstood. 

My point is, if Max7 Painting, has an office, (5) 2012 trucks on the road, massive marketing going on and "I" live with my mom, drive a 1995 pick up truck, and have very little overhead, and if I am going to produce the same quality work or better than Max7 Painting, why should I charge less than them? 

The customer doesn't care about your overhead. They care about what you can do for them! Correct?


----------



## wje

ExcaliburPainting said:


> I think my post was misunderstood.
> 
> My point is, if Max7 Painting, has an office, (5) 2012 trucks on the road, massive marketing going on and "I" live with my mom, drive a 1995 pick up truck, and have very little overhead, and if I am going to produce the same quality work or better than Max7 Painting, why should I charge less than them?
> 
> The customer doesn't care about your overhead. They care about what you can do for them! Correct?


 
Yes they do care what you can do for them. No overhead, means no employees, means no manpower, means longer time on jobs.

Sure you live with your mom and do just as good of work as max7, but max 7 can throw his 4 man crew into a full house repaint and bang it out in 2.5 days while you will be there for 10 days.

Painting can be an inconvenience for people so the quicker the better. When you can offer a service such as that it can be very valuable.


----------



## TJ Paint

ExcaliburPainting said:


> The customer doesn't care about your overhead. They care about what you can do for them! Correct?


Evidently, they care to have their project priced in sf, which I still cannot understand.

p.s. you can have your mom be a helper for free too. Even better!


----------



## RH

ExcaliburPainting said:


> I think my post was misunderstood.
> 
> My point is, if Max7 Painting, has an office, (5) 2012 trucks on the road, massive marketing going on and "I" live with my mom, drive a 1995 pick up truck, and have very little overhead, and if I am going to produce the same quality work or better than Max7 Painting, why should I charge less than them?
> 
> The customer doesn't care about your overhead. They care about what you can do for them! Correct?


I certainly can't disagree with anything you just wrote but I'm not sure what it has to do with my question. 

Perhaps I took you too literally but in post #83 you specifically said you would want to know what your competition is charging so you could consistantly charge just a bit less and I asked how you thought you could accomplish that. In your statement above you seem to be arguing the opposite.

I think most here would subscribe to the principle that they will do quality, professional work at a price which reflects what they need to make and what the local market will bear. Certainly one must be aware of the _general_ price trends in their region but still that doesn't mean you may not be higher or lower than the competition on any particular bid. IMO, trying to have a system in place where you can always under bid them is unrealistic and an unsound business model.


----------



## Damon T

Museum_Fab_Omaha said:


> http://www.ppgpro.com/residential/pro-painter/services/job-estimating.aspx
> 
> This might help... I don't do this type of painting so I don't knwo how accurate it is.


That pricing guide is really a trip! It should help a lot of guys go out of business sooner. At least in this neck of the woods it would.


----------



## Gough

Damon T said:


> That pricing guide is really a trip! It should help a lot of guys go out of business sooner. At least in this neck of the woods it would.


Woof, I just looked at that. Based on our numbers from the last year we were doing NC, I'd say it's about half right.

I'd like to hear from you guys in different markets. Do those numbers seem way low?


----------



## wje

Gough said:


> Woof, I just looked at that. Based on our numbers from the last year we were doing NC, I'd say it's about half right.
> 
> I'd like to hear from you guys in different markets. Do those numbers seem way low?


They are way too low for what I need on a job, but I know there are guys around here that consistantly bang em out at that price.. They look like hell, but they do it.


----------



## Gough

wje said:


> They are way too low for what I need on a job, but I know there are guys around here that consistantly bang em out at that price.. They look like hell, but they do it.


That was my take on it as well, but I have no idea what it is like in the Real World.

Just curious wje, do you have to charge (and pay) HST for painting?


----------



## wje

Gough said:


> That was my take on it as well, but I have no idea what it is like in the Real World.
> 
> Just curious wje, do you have to charge (and pay) HST for painting?


Yea we do. Anybody operating in Ontario, who will do more than $30 000 in gross sales is required to collect HST. HST here is 13%, so you can imagine it adds a large amount to each of our jobs. 

We do quarterly remits, and monthly payroll remits.


----------



## Paradigmzz

ProWallGuy said:


> To answer the OP:
> 
> AMAYCG


As much as you can get. 


It took a while to figure that one out. Nice.


----------



## Steve Richards

I'm too late to this party to start handing out thanks now.

..but I do love pricing threads, so I'm gonna give one to the OP.


----------



## painterguy07

Excalibur- The companies who have 5 trucks or have multiple crews going have 10x the amount of leads coming in every week than the guy living in his moms basement or what ever stupid scenario you just laid out.They could care less if someone says "I'll do it for a fraction cheaper choose me". It's about professionalism and having confidence in each persons personal system that works for them. My point here is that none of your logic makes sense to anyone on this forum. You're a devils advocate all the time without any meaning to most everything you say. If you honestly think coming in $50 less on a $5000 job has anything to do with who gets the bid then you sir are going to struggle for the rest of your painting career (so long as you own the business).


----------



## Gough

wje said:


> Yea we do. Anybody operating in Ontario, who will do more than $30 000 in gross sales is required to collect HST. HST here is 13%, so you can imagine it adds a large amount to each of our jobs.
> 
> We do quarterly remits, and monthly payroll remits.


Does that do anything to level the playing field? Or do you still have to deal with outfits/solo operators who are working off the books?


----------



## 6126

ExcaliburPainting said:


> - Target and Walmart know what one another charges!
> 
> - If company XYZ is charging the highest prices due to "their salary, overhead, production rates" I want to know what they charge so I can come in $50 less than them. If they are charging $5,000 on a job, I will come it at $4,950... Even if their over head is triple what mine is, I will only beat them by 50 bucks. :thumbsup:


Well thats awesome. But, Im not Target or Walmart. I run a very small paint company with no employees. I dont base my prices off the "going rates" of other local painters. I charge according to the scope of work and my prices. It works for me. I stay busy busy, I earn a decent living. Im happy. :thumbsup:


----------



## 6126

ExcaliburPainting said:


> I think my post was misunderstood.
> 
> My point is, if Max7 Painting, has an office, (5) 2012 trucks on the road, massive marketing going on and "I" live with my mom, drive a 1995 pick up truck, and have very little overhead


You live with your Mom?


----------



## wje

Gough said:


> Does that do anything to level the playing field? Or do you still have to deal with outfits/solo operators who are working off the books?


Well. I personally prefer working for contractors, as opposed to home owners, so It actually helps. All legeit cotractors need us to provide proof of insurance, WSIB clearance certificates, and they have schedules they need to stick to, so having solo operators will not work for them. They understand what our real costs' are and they can appreciate that we are a legit company.

On the flip side, when we price residential stuff I come in more professionally than most in my area to price jobs. I think a lot of people are hesitant towards the 13% tax, but they understand it isn't me who is making that money, I am just collecting it for the government. It has sank in to people now, but when it was first introduced, home owners were standoffish.


----------



## Scotiadawg

wje said:


> Well. I personally prefer working for contractors, as opposed to home owners, so It actually helps. All legeit cotractors need us to provide proof of insurance, WSIB clearance certificates, and they have schedules they need to stick to, so having solo operators will not work for them. They understand what our real costs' are and they can appreciate that we are a legit company.
> 
> On the flip side, when we price residential stuff I come in more professionally than most in my area to price jobs. I think a lot of people are hesitant towards the 13% tax, but they understand it isn't me who is making that money, I am just collecting it for the government. It has sank in to people now, but when it was first introduced, home owners were standoffish.


We do 15% tax here:yes:. People REALLY hated it at first and some work was lost but they eventually realized it was the white shirts on the hill that were dinging em:yes:


----------



## wje

Scotiadawg said:


> We do 15% tax here:yes:. People REALLY hated it at first and some work was lost but they eventually realized it was the white shirts on the hill that were dinging em:yes:


Yep, And we act as the gophers to get it to them. God Forbid you are a month late on a payment...


----------



## Scotiadawg

wje said:


> Yep, And we act as the gophers to get it to them. God Forbid you are a month late on a payment...


Holy crap on a cracker don't even _Think_ that !:no:. Sucks to be a tax collector but thems the breaks when yer making the big green !


----------



## RH

wje said:


> I think a lot of people are hesitant towards the 13% tax, but they understand it isn't me who is making that money, I am just collecting it for the government. It has sank in to people now, but when it was first introduced, home owners were standoffish.


I have to plead ignorance regarding the Canadian taxation system. Exactly what does this 13% apply to? Do under the table outfits escape it thereby putting legit companies at an extreme disadvantage like they do here?

Same questions with your 15% SD.


----------



## wje

researchhound said:


> I have to plead ignorance regarding the Canadian taxation system. Exactly what does this 13% apply to? Do under the table outfits escape it thereby putting legit companies at an extreme disadvantage like they do here?
> 
> Same questions with your 15% SD.


I believe all Service based business that reaches $30k in gross sales needs to register for an HST number. Once you have it, it doesn't matter id you do $2000 a year, you have to collect the HST (harmonized sales tax). You are then able to write it down, by claiming all of the HST off of your expenses, and what is left is remitted to the government.

We used to have PST (provincial sales tax) and GST (Gross sales tax) and only retail outfits charge the PST which was 8% while GST was 5%. 

They implemented the HST and claimed it would save everybody money. This was in 2009 or 2010 I can't remember now. It was really tough to sell jobs to homeowners for the first quarter after it was introduced. It caught on and is part of our life now.

Of course, like everywhere, you have guys running phony business' and not paying taxes, but in the long run they can never get ahead. So I don't worry too much about them. 

It is frustrating when homeowners refuse to pay it though. I had an 85 year old customer 2 years ago who refused to pay the tax. It was on a $600 job, and after arguing I finally gave in and just left him the bill and ended up eating the tax myself. 

On a side note, I make sure on all of my estimates that my total, and the HST are completely seperate so they can see that I have no wiggle room on the tax.


----------



## Scotiadawg

researchhound said:


> I have to plead ignorance regarding the Canadian taxation system. Exactly what does this 13% apply to? Do under the table outfits escape it thereby putting legit companies at an extreme disadvantage like they do here?
> 
> Same questions with your 15% SD.


Hope Bill doesn't notice your slick hijack here RH, but c'mon _really_ Canadian gov't NEEDS that 15% to build roads, schools and beef-up security along our borders ( them 'mericans is sum sneeky eh ? ! ) . Under table outfits probably same everywhere, what do they care about sales tax ??:blink: It's never collected or if it is it's not remitted to CRA.:no:. GST = Goods and Services tax. Here in NS we have H.S.T = Harmonized Sales tax. Wooohooo aint we lucky ?! bazinga


----------



## RH

Scotiadawg said:


> Hope Bill doesn't notice your slick hijack here RH, but c'mon _really_ Canadian gov't NEEDS that 15% to build roads, schools and beef-up security along our borders ( them 'mericans is sum sneeky eh ? ! ) . Under table outfits probably same everywhere, what do they care about sales tax ??:blink: It's never collected or if it is it's not remitted to CRA.:no:. GST = Goods and Services tax. Here in NS we have H.S.T = Harmonized Sales tax. Wooohooo aint we lucky ?! bazinga


He'd be proud. Probably would insist on high-fiving me thus sending me back to the hospital.

_Harmonized_ Sales Tax - sounds very benign, even warm and fuzzy.


----------



## wje

Scotiadawg said:


> GST = Goods and Services tax. Here in NS we have H.S.T = Harmonized Sales tax. Wooohooo aint we lucky ?! bazinga


Hahah I knew GST didnt stand for what I said, I just couldnt think of it so i made something up :thumbup:


----------



## Scotiadawg

wje said:


> Hahah I knew GST didnt stand for what I said, I just couldnt think of it so i made something up :thumbup:


Actually I like your def better - its pretty gross. :thumbsup: HST also = Helluva Tax:yes:


----------



## mudbone

ProWallGuy said:


> The truth hurts, but it will set you free.


 Amen!:thumbsup:


----------



## mudbone

Woodland said:


> You live with your Mom?


Mama's boy!:yes:


----------



## Scotiadawg

mudbone said:


> Mama's boy!:yes:



lands sakes boys how many hijacks we got goin here ? :thumbsup:. Now we just need Steve to pop in !:notworthy:


----------



## playedout6

researchhound said:


> I have to plead ignorance regarding the Canadian taxation system. Exactly what does this 13% apply to? Do under the table outfits escape it thereby putting legit companies at an extreme disadvantage like they do here?
> 
> Same questions with your 15% SD.


Here on PEI we only have to charge 5% GST tax...but come next April we will be shifting to the same tax system as many other Canadian provinces and we will be then charging 15 % .

It certainly does hurt us in the residential market . We have a large unemployed workforce here on PEI in the Winter months because we have very little factory jobs . Our island relies heavily on season work and then unemployment checks $$$$ from the federal government after the seasonal work ends . Then a lot of under the table guys start running around painting and doing crackfilling like crazy for cash . They take about 400 bucks a week in on the Unemployment federal checks and then another 600-800 cash from the residential sector .

In the meantime... since we have to charge taxes...we might be lucky to take home 800 a week after deductions . It is almost impossible to get a new private home interior in the Winter months these days on PEI . I just priced one today...and I really doubt I will get it because it will end up being a cash job for an under the table guy !!!


----------



## 6126

I want in on the thread highjack.......I have to collect 8% sales tax on jobs here in Washington State


----------



## RH

0% sales tax here in Oregon. Course Mike already knew that. 

I'm don't think discussing sales tax as part of charges in a pricing thread is too far out of line. At least not in this one.


----------



## Workaholic

I say charge as much as you can without pricing yourself out of the job.


----------



## Gough

Woodland said:


> I want in on the thread highjack.......I have to collect 8% sales tax on jobs here in Washington State


That was one of the reasons that we let our WA state ticket lapse. The biggies were the constant updates to WISHA, as well as the hassles of being self-bonded. When they doubled the amount required to self-bond, I decided that we'd had enough. A year later, we got the our bond back, with interest!


----------



## TJ Paint

I'm sure glad this thread died...




...doh!


----------



## Gough

TJ Paint said:


> I'm sure glad this thread died...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...doh!


I think it's a zombie thread...


BRAINS!


----------



## Roof Cleaning

My latest job that we completed I made many mistakes that cost me $$. Don't make these mistakes.

First, I never had the client sign off on a detailed work proposal. So during the project we had 8 extra items added. They were railings under the bar on the pool deck, steps on pool deck, window trim etc. 

This does not sound like much, but we are a 2 man crew with the third guy coming in Nov. the project started on Wed. when it was supposed to start on Mon. So I was out cleaning roofs by myself that I had booked a month ago during the end when she was adding items. 

I used 35 gallons of superpaint/loxon in total, washed everything in 3 hrs. 

As far as price, I used the square feet as a general guide for pricing to see if I was in the park and how much paint to use. Which I'm always high but have been cleaning for this client for 5+ years. We had three gallons of paint left over.

1.05 per s/ft is what it ended up at and every painter in my area says if you get more than .80 you are doing well. I would lose $$ at those rates and barely made an acceptable profit for the energy I put into it I believe.

My goal is to become faster and more efficient, keep my rates where they are and market to my client list until I have an overflow from my other streams. 

I think 2500-2900 square house in two days at my current price is a realistic goal to achieve by Dec. if I can schedule better and be there with them.


----------



## plainpainter

you painting houses now, peerless?


----------



## Xmark

I think 2500-2900 square house in two days at my current price is a realistic goal to achieve by Dec. if I can schedule better and be there with them.



2900 sq foot house in just 2 days? i assume that you have help. for 2 coats,(walls only) I would bid 40-50 man hours.

edit:

If it takes 50 hours @ $50/hr that equals $2500 for labor. a couple pails of paint is about$300-$400. now you are at $2900 for 2900 sq ft including paint and labor

a buck a sq foot is a very rough guide. you then factor in the level of difficulty,amount of prep work and your overhead.

some pc's charge $30-$40 per hr for labor. some guys use Aura and some guys use super spec. lots of variables in that equation.


----------



## Workaholic

Xmark said:


> I think 2500-2900 square house in two days at my current price is a realistic goal to achieve by Dec. if I can schedule better and be there with them.
> 
> 
> 
> 2900 sq foot house in just 2 days? i assume that you have help. for 2 coats,(walls only) I would bid 40-50 man hours.
> 
> edit:
> 
> If it takes 50 hours @ $50/hr that equals $2500 for labor. a couple pails of paint is about$300-$400. now you are at $2900 for 2900 sq ft including paint and labor
> 
> a buck a sq foot is a very rough guide. you then factor in the level of difficulty,amount of prep work and your overhead.
> 
> some pc's charge $30-$40 per hr for labor. some guys use Aura and some guys use super spec. lots of variables in that equation.


Variables shmeriables. 

The people that care about variables will still be working in three years from now.


----------



## Xmark

Workaholic said:


> Variables shmeriables.
> 
> The people that care about variables will still be working in three years from now.


huh?


----------



## Workaholic

Xmark said:


> huh?


I am saying in my own subtle way that people pricing repaints by the sqft of floor space without considering the variables may not be in business long.


----------



## Xmark

Workaholic said:


> I am saying in my own subtle way that people pricing repaints by the sqft of floor space without considering the variables may not be in business long.



agree

I actually know a PC who bids a buck a square for all his interiors. i'm not sure how well he's doing financially or if he ever sways from that bidding mindset. that's what he tells me anyways.


----------



## Workaholic

Sometimes a comment misses the mark but I still carry on.


----------



## RH

Workaholic said:


> Sometimes a comment misses the mark but I still carry on.


:whistling2:************


----------



## ExcaliburPainting

TJ Paint said:


> I'm sure glad this thread died...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...doh!


And thanks to you for reviving it! :cursing:

Chicago? Is that you?


----------



## Gough

Xmark said:


> agree
> 
> I actually know a PC who bids a buck a square for all his interiors. i'm not sure how well he's doing financially or if he ever sways from that bidding mindset. that's what he tells me anyways.


Is that for residential repaints??? Or NC?

I think it's been close to ten years since we figured a sq ft price on anything and that was on NC. We had a client who wanted to know. Turned out to be $8/ft^^2. I can't imagine doing that for a buck a square, let alone res repaint.

EDIT: The price that we quoted included the trim. I finally caught on that guys in other part of the country do a separate bid for trim. When they started pressing for sq ft prices around here, they wanted an all-inclusive price.

Is that $1/ft^^2 of heated floor space or $1/ft^^2 of painted surface? Just doing some "back of the envelope" calculations for three-coat work: at $30/gal and 300 ft^^2/gal, that's $0.10/ft^^2 for each coat. Three coats=$0.30/ft^^2 of painted area. Using a generous factor of 3.5 to convert floor area to wall+ceiling area(4.5 seems to be more like it), that gives a material cost of $1.05/ft^^2. I guess he must make it up in volume:whistling2:


----------



## Xmark

Gough said:


> Is that for residential repaints??? Or NC?
> 
> I think it's been close to ten years since we figured a sq ft price on anything and that was on NC. We had a client who wanted to know. Turned out to be $8/ft^^2. I can't imagine doing that for a buck a square, let alone res repaint.
> 
> Is that $1/ft^^2 of heated floor space or $1/ft^^2 of painted surface? Just doing some "back of the envelope" calculations for three-coat work: at $30/gal and 300 ft^^2/gal, that's $0.10/ft^^2 for each coat. Three coats=$0.30/ft^^2 of painted area. Using a generous factor of 3.5 to convert floor area to wall+ceiling area(4.5 seems to be more like it), that gives a material cost of $1.05/ft^^2. I guess he must make it up in volume:whistling2:


that's just for res repaints,2 coats walls.

it's the floor space. i personally like to take my laser and measure out wall space. it's much more accurate of course.

i know another PC who does strictly NC and he also uses floor sq footage for his bids (trim pack by linear foot) and he's a very successful guy. can't say for certain if it is BS.


----------



## Rbriggs82

Gough said:


> Is that for residential repaints??? Or NC?
> 
> I think it's been close to ten years since we figured a sq ft price on anything and that was on NC. We had a client who wanted to know. Turned out to be $8/ft^^2. I can't imagine doing that for a buck a square, let alone res repaint.
> 
> Is that $1/ft^^2 of heated floor space or $1/ft^^2 of painted surface? Just doing some "back of the envelope" calculations for three-coat work: at $30/gal and 300 ft^^2/gal, that's $0.10/ft^^2 for each coat. Three coats=$0.30/ft^^2 of painted area. Using a generous factor of 3.5 to convert floor area to wall+ceiling area(4.5 seems to be more like it), that gives a material cost of $1.05/ft^^2. I guess he must make it up in volume:whistling2:


We were getting a $1sqft of floor space in the late 80's for nc. I know guys that are still getting that, poor bastards.


----------



## Gough

Rbriggs82 said:


> We were getting a $1sqft of floor space in the late 80's for nc. I know guys that are still getting that, poor bastards.


Given what material prices have done since then, I can't imagine doing that these days.


----------



## Xmark

Gough said:


> Given what material prices have done since then, I can't imagine doing that these days.


i think many of the guys are getting $1.80 a square for one prime and 2 finish around here in canada.


----------



## Roof Cleaning

Thanks for the suggestions guys...why I'm here 

Ya Dan, I'm trying to make more $$$...How ya been?

Many of the painters around here are doing houses like this in one day 4 guys for like 1700-1900 and are slammed. Doing good work, using super paint licensed/bonded/insured...

They just do them crazy fast, and the work is spot on. I have been in biz long enough for myself to understand you can't blanket prices like the per square method. It just seems that is the first question out of a customers mouth and also a fellow contractor whenever I shoot the breeze etc.. "how much you getting for 2000"...


----------



## CApainter

CApainter said:


> Example of a 12' X 12' X 8'H room to be painted [includes one 4' window sill, 1 closet entry, 1 side of door and casing, and 3" base board. One coat on all surfaces. Closet not included]
> 
> -Set up and minimal prep=1 hr
> -1 coat/1 color ceiling and walls. Brush and roll= 1.5 hrs
> -1 coat trim=1 hr
> -Clean up=.5 hr
> 
> Labor =4 hrs @ $50.00 per hr.
> Materials=$60.00
> Total=$260.00
> 
> Foot print @ 144 sf= $1.80 per sf
> Actual area to be painted @ 528 sf= .50 per sf
> 
> This could be a base line and adjusted upward for additional coats, trim packages, access, prep, etc.
> 
> 
> Disclaimer: Remember, I'm the guy who doesn't own his own business.





Xmark said:


> i think many of the guys are getting $1.80 a square for one prime and 2 finish around here in canada.


Man, this is really close to what I estimated the going "living" square footage would be excluding the second and third coat coat. I would probably be considered a highballer in Canada.

Xmark, are you talking about living area or actual painted surface? In other words, if you're talking about actual painted area in a 12' X 12' X 8'H room, it would cost a customer $950.00.


Please disregard my post. My square footage was based on only four hours labor. Sorry.


----------



## Xmark

Roof Cleaning said:


> Thanks for the suggestions guys...why I'm here
> 
> Ya Dan, I'm trying to make more $$$...How ya been?
> 
> Many of the painters around here are doing houses like this in one day 4 guys for like 1700-1900 and are slammed. Doing good work, using super paint licensed/bonded/insured...
> 
> They just do them crazy fast, and the work is spot on. I have been in biz long enough for myself to understand you can't blanket prices like the per square method. It just seems that is the first question out of a customers mouth and also a fellow contractor whenever I shoot the breeze etc.. "how much you getting for 2000"...


i can see that happening in new construction. you bang out 50 houses and you basically know how much you make per 2000 sq foot homes or whatever the size. most of the time it's all the same color with a few feature walls thrown in.

a custom built house is where wall sq footage might be more accurate. you can have some funky sized rooms with a ton of cutting in and also rounded stairwells that aren't easy to paint.

Re-paints is a different ballgame.residential repaints have more variables because of prep work and the number of colors some of these home owners choose. painting in an occupied house also adds to the degree of difficulty.


----------



## Xmark

CApainter said:


> Man, this is really close to what I estimated the going "living" square footage would be excluding the second and third coat coat. I would probably be considered a highballer in Canada.
> 
> Xmark, are you talking about living area or actual painted surface?


floor sq footage as in what the real-tors present in their ad packages.


----------



## CApainter

Xmark, does the floor square footage account for eight hours labor?. Thanks.

In other words, my square footage only accounted for four hours. If it were estimate at 8 hours per square foot, that would be $3.60 per sf. And that would only be 1 coat on everything.


----------



## Rbriggs82

Gough said:


> Given what material prices have done since then, I can't imagine doing that these days.


Yea tell me about it. Mind you they are only doing one coat spray and back roll with sw masterhide and wiping stain no putty or polly. Still pretty crazy.


----------



## Xmark

Rbriggs82 said:


> Yea tell me about it. Mind you they are only doing one coat spray and back roll with sw masterhide and wiping stain no putty or polly. Still pretty crazy.


they must be some crappy new homes. are they under 150K?


----------



## Rbriggs82

Xmark said:


> they must be some crappy new homes. are they under 150K?


Nope. I'm not sure what they sell for now that the market crapped the bed but they were around 3,000sqft for $350,000 - $400,000. That's what we call Pocono quality. Everything in them is nice, hardwood floors, granite counters, some were geothermal. The builders in the Poconos just don't like to spend money on paint. I'd say that 80% or more of the builders here do it the way I described. Some builders spend more for putty and polly or painted trim but the walls are always one coat spray and back roll either SW masterhide or bm superhide.


----------



## Roof Cleaning

Hey guys...

What I have found in my market (population growth) is that many of the established companies were living off of new construction feeding large crews.

Once the dip occurred, folks that didn't adapt fell off. So basically, a industry that fed from new construction using resi repaints as extra $$ is now being fed on resi repaints as new construction has been non existent for 45+ months here. 

Only way the big boys can compete with the non licensed or small co's is to use their labor....this drove prices down hard. 

Thank god we are an established company adding on a service, IDK how one could start up now...


----------



## Workaholic

researchhound said:


> :whistling2:************


That looks about right, another reason why I like to mark my territory outside.


----------



## TJ Paint

So $1/sf is the correct answer? I'm getting impatient yo.


----------



## Xmark

TJ Paint said:


> So $1/sf is the correct answer? I'm getting impatient yo.


you need to follow more closely. not the simple answer you seek oh simple one.


----------



## Gough

TJ Paint said:


> So $1/sf is the correct answer? I'm getting impatient yo.


If $1/sf is the answer, what was the question? It's been so long that I've forgotten.


----------



## TNpainter

There is no "correct answer" sq foot price varies by area scope of work and many other items. I get 2.25 a floor foot on nc i supply paint but i get good paint prices.thats one story. Two story $2.50_$2.75 exterior work is extra. Slick ceilings footage price goes up stained wood work up again. Res. Repaint different formula altogether. Best bet for u is figure man hrs plus mat. Plus overhead divided by footage of area to b painted. And see if it sounds in the ballpark of what u have heard on hear. If way off then higher an estimator lol. Good luck if u can bid ext. Then what's the problem with bidding int. You should know what ur crew can do in 8 hrs and what u need/want for u and said crew for a days work.


----------



## TJ Paint

Woodland said:


> Ok, think about it for a second...........this is a PUBLIC forum. That means anything we post is public. Why is it so hard to understand why pricing questions are frowned upon? I cant speak for the other members, but Im not putting my numbers out on the internet. The other thing is its different for eveyone. Know your #s. Your salary, overhead, production rates, etc will be different for everyone. Heres my suggestion.........Know your #s. First figure out the amount of paint needed. How much are you paying per gallon? Are you marking up your paint? Dont forget about sundries. Roller covers, masking tape, spackle, caulk, etc. get a complete total for all materials. Then figure out your total hours. For that you have to know your #s. How long does it take you to cut and roll a bedroom ceiling? Walls? How long does it take you to paint a bedroom? Prep and paint a door and a jamb? How many doors are there? Are there windows to paint? Closets? (Sometimes a closet takes as long to paint as a bedroom) Is there a stairway? Paint the base? Figure every single detail. Dont forget to figure set up and clean up time. Exactly how much prep is involved? Moving furniture? Removing switch plates. How much masking? How much time picking up materials? Are there multiple colors? Figure every single detail and total your hours. Figuring high is better than low. A painter once told me...."I never lost money on a job I didnt get"  How much do you plan on paying yourself? Do you have a rate per hour? Get a price for total labor. Now, figure out your overhead. How many days will this interior take you? I figure mine on a monthly basis and break that down to 20 work days per month, so if its a 3 day job I add 3 days of overhead. If you dont know your overhead I suggest you start there. There is plenty of info posted here at PT on overhead. Know your #s. So, now you have your materials, plus your labor, and your overhead. Now, last but not least.....profit. The reason we went into business. Know your #s. How much profit are you going for? 10% 15% 20% add that to the other 3 numbers and you now have a total. If you wanna divide the sq ft into the total, go for it. However, you will find it wont matter on the next interior cause too many things may be different. Keep a record of each job. How many hours go into each task. After a while you can come up witha "Historical cost" You will know how much it costs you to paint a bedroom, an interior, exterior, etc. The book you mentioned? By Gleason? I own a copy. Its a $5O paper weight. Oh yeah, I probably forgot to mention this......Know your #s. Heres the deal when it comes to Paint Talk.....This is an awesome site. It also depends on what you do with this site. The search function is your best friend here. Read and study. I love this site. Its been invaluable for me. I have learned a lot here and Ive been painting for over 30 years. Good luck :thumbsup:


Paragraphs?


----------



## 6126

TJ Paint said:


> Paragraphs?


Thats the 2nd time you've commented on my writing. I dont know how to do them dude. But....if it reallly bothers you that much (which it must for you to pull up an old thread) perhaps you can become a mod and edit my posts Professor Tim. Or.......you can simply kiss my ass  Personally I dont care which one you do :no:


----------



## Xmark

Woodland said:


> Thats the 2nd time you've commented on my writing. I dont know how to do them dude. But....if it reallly bothers you that much (which it must for you to pull up an old thread) perhaps you can become a mod and edit my posts Professor Tim. Or.......you can simply kiss my ass  Personally I dont care which one you do :no:


:notworthy:

atta boy


----------



## TJ Paint

Woodland said:


> Thats the 2nd time you've commented on my writing. I dont know how to do them dude. But....if it reallly bothers you that much (which it must for you to pull up an old thread) perhaps you can become a mod and edit my posts Professor Tim. Or.......you can simply kiss my ass  Personally I dont care which one you do :no:




Dude, wasn't trying to criticize. Just thought it was a way to bump the thread and give you some crap at the same time. 



You getting any quad time or is the weather too crappy?


----------



## Dunbar Painting

TJ Paint said:


> Dude, wasn't trying to criticize. Just thought it was a way to bump the thread and give you some crap at the same time.
> 
> 
> 
> You getting any quad time or is the weather too crappy?


subtle


----------



## NEPS.US

TJ Paint said:


> Dude, wasn't trying to criticize. Just thought it was a way to bump the thread and give you some crap at the same time.
> 
> You getting any quad time or is the weather too crappy?


The ol backpedal.


----------



## 6126

TJ Paint said:


> Dude, wasn't trying to criticize. Just thought it was a way to bump the thread and give you some crap at the same time.
> 
> 
> 
> You getting any quad time or is the weather too crappy?


Nasty weather today. Been baking cookies with my son and now were watching Dr Seuss The Lorax


----------



## Rocco DeSimone

Woodland said:


> Thats the 2nd time you've commented on my writing. I dont know how to do them dude. But....if it reallly bothers you that much (which it must for you to pull up an old thread) perhaps you can become a mod and edit my posts Professor Tim. Or.......you can simply kiss my ass  Personally I dont care which one you do :no:


Thread resurrection? Trollin?

I think he should plant his lips on your ass and enjoy!


----------



## painter dude

look it over, get a figure in mind, then triple it!


----------



## Steve Richards

Woodland said:


> I dont know how to do them


Every few sentences...hit "enter" (on your keyboard) twice.

I make more paragraphs than I need to.

By keeping what I type easy to read...I like to think it helps make up for lack of content.


----------



## Westview

Sounds like a cheap ass. I had a bid last weekend and the clients asked for a sqft price. After I sent my bid off, they replied and said my estimate was twice the price of the rest of the bids. How my competition can be half of my price, I have no idea. 

Here is a price system that a lot of guys use around Ottawa.

Ex. 1000 sqft home

Walls: $1.50x1000 = $1500 2 coats
Ceiling: $1x1000 = $1000 1 coat
Base: $1xlinear feet 1 coat


----------



## team 911

Its like this as most on this site would agree.there is no set price because there are too many factors quality of work. product being used the time factor. Degree of difficulty after you have some experience making money in this business it will all come together bottom line figure out how much product how much on labor and what is a reasonable price you would like to take at the end that my friend is your square foot price.


----------



## TJ Paint

NEPS.US said:


> The ol backpedal.


3 posts in 3 months from you, and this gets you back in...

Glad I could help


----------



## TJ Paint

Rocco DeSimone said:


> Thread resurrection? Trollin?
> 
> I think he should plant his lips on your ass and enjoy!


You can do it for me, if you feel like it.


----------



## TNpainter

pain-ter said:


> Hi everyone!
> 
> I know I am asking a lot for an accurate estimate for an interior paint job, but I thought it best to ask the experts.
> 
> Ok, I am in California, a friend just asked me to paint the entire interior of the house.
> 
> I usually only do exterior jobs.
> 
> Can someone give me a rough estimate on how much to charge per sq. ft.?
> 
> I will go to see the house in 2 hours.
> 
> Here is what I think she will ask:
> 
> 2 coats
> all walls, ceilings.
> 
> What should I charge for only walls and ceilings?
> 
> Next, what if she asks me to include the doors and all trim?
> 
> How should I bid that?
> 
> Last, she just purchased the home, and there is no furniture at all, so no moving of items.
> 
> I do have a brand new Graco 395, so I thought it would probably be best to spray and roll.
> 
> I would like to use Kelly Moore's best interior or Home Depot's Behr Premium Plus.
> 
> Please help me give an accurate estimate.
> 
> I need help fast.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Pain-ter


How do u make it through winter only doing ext? If you r an actual painter then figure it as a t&m job and turn n accordingly


----------



## Steve Richards

Post #55 made me LOL...it got 0 thanks.

I was gonna give him a late one...but the moment already passed.


----------



## 6126

Westview said:


> Ex. 1000 sqft home
> 
> Walls: $1.50x1000 = $1500 2 coats
> Ceiling: $1x1000 = $1000 1 coat
> Base: $1xlinear feet 1 coat


I usually dont bite on these threads, but why not? I dont bid off sq ft, however I can come up with an average after quite a few years of doing this. Most the homes I paint are pretty the same. 90% of them are 10-15 years old. 

The wall price seems ok. Maybe a bit low if anything. Maybe one color through-out in a simple single story home with 8 ft ceilings. Now on the other hand...... the ceiling price seems a bit high @ $1.00 per sq ft. My average job is 3000 sq ft of living area. I am not able to figure in 3 grand for ceilings. 10 gals of paint and two days worth of work tops. Not around here. :no: 

If you guys are getting that kind of money more power to you. But not here in SW Washington though. At that rate, all I would ever do is run around and give estimates. I would never get any work.  

Now, the big question is.........Do my paragraphs meet up your standards Professor Tim?


----------



## TJ Paint

Woodland said:


> Now, the big question is.........Do my paragraphs meet up your standards Professor Tim?


If you mean, I actually read your post without wincing from eye strain, then yes.:thumbsup:


----------



## Steve Richards

Very nice lookin' post Woodland!

I didn't read the whole thing (it was kinda boring).

J/K..HA!


----------



## 6126

Steve Richards said:


> Very nice lookin' post Woodland!


Thanks. I was quite proud of it myself. I actually made paragraphs. :thumbup:I went ahead and printed it plus emailed a copy to my Mom. I will be stopping at Dollar Tree later today to buy a frame for it. :thumbsup:


----------



## STAR

Westview said:


> Ex. 1000 sqft home
> 
> Walls: $1.50x1000 = $1500 2 coats
> Ceiling: $1x1000 = $1000 1 coat
> Base: $1xlinear feet 1 coat


What about doors, frames and windows? Is that price included in the wall price?


----------



## Steve Richards

Woodland said:


> Thanks. I was quite proud of it myself. I actually made paragraphs. :thumbup:I went ahead and printed it plus emailed a copy to my Mom. I will be stopping at Dollar Tree later today to buy a frame for it. :thumbsup:


I'm gonna ask daArch to give you one of those gold stars too.


----------



## 6126

Steve Richards said:


> I'm gonna ask daArch to give you one of those gold stars too.


 YESSSSSS!!!!!! :thumbup:


----------



## TJ Paint

Woodland;354978
I went ahead and printed it plus emailed a copy to my Mom. I will be stopping at Dollar Tree later today to buy a frame for it. :thumbsup:[/QUOTE said:


> Mommas boy...
> 
> Welcome to the club


----------



## 6126

STAR said:


> What about doors, frames and windows? Is that price included in the wall price?


 Man, I sure hope not.  Theres no way :no:


----------



## TJ Paint

Woodland said:


> I usually dont bite on these threads, but why not? I dont bid off sq ft, however I can come up with an average after quite a few years of doing this. Most the homes I paint are pretty the same. 90% of them are 10-15 years old.
> 
> _*A nice intro, well done, not overbearing or forceful... Not allowing your reader to get bogged down with verbiage too early in the post*_:thumbsup:
> The wall price seems ok. Maybe a bit low if anything. Maybe one color through-out in a simple single story home with 8 ft ceilings. Now on the other hand...... the ceiling price seems a bit high @ $1.00 per sq ft. My average job is 3000 sq ft of living area. I am not able to figure in 3 grand for ceilings. 10 gals of paint and two days worth of work tops. Not around here. :no:
> 
> _A very nice "body" to your post right here... The 4 lines works great, especially considering the length of your intro paragraph._
> 
> If you guys are getting that kind of money more power to you. But not here in SW Washington though. At that rate, all I would ever do is run around and give estimates. I would never get any work.
> 
> _Now, what a great way to prep your ending witty conclusion, nice and concise, and also contextually prudent._
> 
> Now, the big question is.........Do my paragraphs meet up your standards Professor Tim?


Obviously your closing sentence and conclusion is a classic jovial jaunt coupled with a call to action that I couldn't resist. :yes:


----------



## 6126

Woodland said:


> the ceiling price seems a bit high @ $1.00 per sq ft. My average job is 3000 sq ft of living area. I am not able to figure in 3 grand for ceilings. 10 gals of paint and two days worth of work tops. Not around here. :no:


 Anyone disagree with me?


----------



## RH

Woodland said:


> Anyone disagree with me?


Constantly - but Unlike some people (coughTJcough) I'm just too polite to post about it.


----------



## wills fresh coat

Woodland said:


> Anyone disagree with me
> 
> I say bs on that formula


----------



## 6126

TJ Paint said:


> Obviously your closing sentence and conclusion is a classic jovial jaunt coupled with a call to action that I couldn't resist. :yes:


 :thumbup:


----------



## PaintHomes

pain-ter said:


> Hi everyone!
> 
> I know I am asking a lot for an accurate estimate for an interior paint job, but I thought it best to ask the experts.
> 
> Ok, I am in California, a friend just asked me to paint the entire interior of the house.
> 
> I usually only do exterior jobs.
> 
> Can someone give me a rough estimate on how much to charge per sq. ft.?
> 
> I will go to see the house in 2 hours.
> 
> Here is what I think she will ask:
> 
> 2 coats
> all walls, ceilings.
> 
> What should I charge for only walls and ceilings?
> 
> Next, what if she asks me to include the doors and all trim?
> 
> How should I bid that?
> 
> Last, she just purchased the home, and there is no furniture at all, so no moving of items.
> 
> I do have a brand new Graco 395, so I thought it would probably be best to spray and roll.
> 
> I would like to use Kelly Moore's best interior or Home Depot's Behr Premium Plus.
> 
> Please help me give an accurate estimate.
> 
> I need help fast.
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Pain-ter


 Interior jobs depends on how much masking and sq footage involved:


----------



## ROOMINADAY

Woodland said:


> Anyone disagree with me?


No, I use x amount of square feet per hour as my guide for walls and ceilings, plus prep hours Trim x-amount of feet per hour, doors x amount per side, etc...

Sent from my GT-I9000M using Paint Talk


----------



## ProWallGuy

TJ Paint said:


> Paragraphs?


So, you bumped this abortion of a thread just to say this?

You sir win my jackwagon of the week award.


----------



## TJ Paint

ProWallGuy said:


> So, you bumped this abortion of a thread just to say this?
> 
> You sir win my jackwagon of the week award.


It was as good as any thread to resume typing words in...

What's more is Neps posted again.


----------



## daArch

Steve Richards said:


> I'm gonna ask daArch to give you one of those gold stars too.


I's jez ain'tn feelin it. 

dem thangs jez ain'tn be given out fer some kinda gramma and struckure.


----------



## daren

I miss threads like this. Some guys desire to make simple things complicated turns into so much fun. 

I took my lumps my first year out then I decided to figure out what my real cost per day is and what I want on top of that. Look at the job, figure how long and multiply by that magic number. 7 years in and he still can't figure that out.

I'm guessing the OP is still trying to figure out how much his customers are willing to pay or what they can afford.


----------



## RH

daren said:


> I miss threads like this. Some guys desire to make simple things complicated turns into so much fun.
> 
> I took my lumps my first year out then I decided to figure out what my real cost per day is and what I want on top of that. Look at the job, figure how long and multiply by that magic number. 7 years in and he still can't figure that out.
> 
> I'm guessing the OP is still trying to figure out how much his customers are willing to pay or what they can afford.


Nah, he's busy still trying to find this place (and I quote): _"I will look for a new paint talk website where the people are kind, decent, knowledgeable, and know how to treat each other with a little more love."_


----------



## 6126

researchhound said:


> Nah, he's busy still trying to find this place (and I quote): _"I will look for a new paint talk website where the people are kind, decent, knowledgeable, and know how to treat each other with a little more love."_


 "Imagine all the painters....... living in harmony......woo hoo......... hoo hoo....hooo :whistling2:


----------



## TJ Paint

daArch said:


> I's jez ain'tn feelin it.
> 
> dem thangs jez ain'tn be given out fer some kinda gramma and struckure.


holy fck, you're almost up to 18k posts...


----------



## 6126

TJ Paint said:


> holy fck, you're almost up to 18k posts...


I was noticing the same thing earlier this evening


----------



## chrisn

TJ Paint said:


> holy fck, you're almost up to 18k posts...


 
wind bag


----------



## caulktheline

Talk about your plenty, talk about your ills,
18,000 posts? Holy chit, Bill!


----------



## Steve Richards

caulktheline said:


> Talk about your plenty, talk about your ills,
> 18,000 posts? Holy chit, Bill!


Not bad, chalk

I'd been working on my Ode to daArch...an epic 2 page poem devoted to him.

...here you've managed to both steal my thunder, and sum it all up with 2 lines.


----------



## RH

chrisn said:


> wind bag


I've said it before, Bill... Foghorn Leghorn. Coincidence or genetic link? :whistling2:


----------



## Westview

STAR said:


> What about doors, frames and windows? Is that price included in the wall price?


$80 per door with casing: 1 coat
Windows would be $1 per linear foot. 1 coat.


----------



## Westview

wills fresh coat said:


> Woodland said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone disagree with me
> 
> I say bs on that formula
> 
> 
> 
> I know a ton of painting contractors that bid this way for residential repaints. I always make great money when I bid like this. Lately I have been thinking about changing my estimating ways. I'd like to start using production rates. I don't know one painting contractor that uses production rates, however, I think it's a much more accurate way of bidding.
Click to expand...


----------



## Westview

Woodland said:


> Man, I sure hope not.  Theres no way :no:


No it doesn't include woodwork. Just walls. Keep in mind I use this formula when painting an entire house so things kind of even out. I do make changes for high ceilings and such. Like I said in my earlier post, I will be changing the way I estimate and taking production rates into account. I haven't been in the painting business that long.


----------



## mightypro150

*Customer Expectations*



researchhound said:


> Just tell her you don't bid it that way. I tell people that all the time and it's the truth since I have never given a sq. ft. price in my entire career. Just use your experience to calculate a bottom line number and give it to her. If she insists then walk away.
> 
> I never trust customers who start off trying to dictate my procedures to me. It will only get worse as the job progresses.



Excellent Response. 
Some Customers are inexperienced dealing with contractors. It is ultimately your responseablity to explain the methods, cost, and duration of the project. Then provide a contract for them to accept or reject.

You are the contractor, they must agree to your terms based on their needs. 

I always bid a job based on a time and materials basis, never by the sq. ft.. Every space is unique and will take a certain amount of time to complete based on the features of the room, material used and methods employed.


----------



## HJ61

My sales ratio is way better when I just give them a price, instead of priced per unit. Ie: per door, window, Lin ft, sq', or bd'. But if they insist you can just divide your price by the sq', as has been mentioned. Ultimately, you need to sell what sets your work apart from the rest though, not just compare pricing. We are currently doing a job that I booked because my crew could do it in 7 days. Competition said 3 weeks! It's $7700 plus add ons!


----------



## daren

HJ61 said:


> My sales ratio is way better when I just give them a price, instead of priced per unit. Ie: per door, window, Lin ft, sq', or bd'. But if they insist you can just divide your price by the sq', as has been mentioned. Ultimately, you need to sell what sets your work apart from the rest though, not just compare pricing. We are currently doing a job that I booked because my crew could do it in 7 days. Competition said 3 weeks! It's $7700 plus add ons!


I hope your competition is a lone man or they be losing money


----------



## 6126

Lol 200 replies to this thread


----------



## ProWallGuy

As soon as I think its dead and gone and BAM here it is again.


----------



## 6126

ProWallGuy said:


> As soon as I think its dead and gone and BAM here it is again.


I know what you mean


----------



## TJ Paint

Woodland said:


> Lol 200 replies to this thread


Just painters helpin painters, with painting and, composition...


----------



## 6126

TJ Paint said:


> Just painters helpin painters, with painting and, composition...


 Lol :thumbup:


----------



## straight_lines

I think any time there is a pricing question just link them to this thread and close theirs. lol


----------



## carolinawildcat

I googled "square foot pricing" and stumbled upon this thread.

I got to page 2, where pain-ter vents a bit.

Serious question: should I read the remaining 10 pages? Something tells me it will be an entertaining yet informative ****show.

Sorry for not filling out my profile, will do so shortly.


----------



## chrisn

carolinawildcat said:


> I googled "square foot pricing" and stumbled upon this thread.
> 
> I got to page 2, where pain-ter vents a bit.
> 
> Serious question: should I read the remaining 10 pages? Something tells me it will be an entertaining yet informative ****show.
> 
> Sorry for not filling out my profile, will do so shortly.


absolutely


----------



## radio11

When asked a question like, "How much should I charge per blah blah blah" the great Southern/Cajun humorist and cook Justin Wilson would have replied, "I don't know. How long is a piece of string?" There's just no way to answer some things for somebody else. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PRC

radio11 said:


> When asked a question like, "How much should I charge per blah blah blah" the great Southern/Cajun humorist and cook Justin Wilson would have replied, "I don't know. How long is a piece of string?" There's just no way to answer some things for somebody else.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I guarantee!


----------



## lilpaintchic

That was a halarious thread...smh.


----------



## mudbone

lilpaintchic said:


> That was a halarious thread...smh.


Good one:thumbup:I spotted that right off.String and thread . That's hilarious.


----------



## PACman

of course we all know the correct answer right? TREE FIDDY!


----------



## Wildbill7145

Woodland said:


> Lol 200 replies to this thread


Paragraphs?

just kidding. This was a pretty funny thread.


----------



## lilpaintchic

Yes, professor....lololol


----------



## chrisn

PACman said:


> of course we all know the correct answer right? TREE FIDDY!


I did not go back and read it but I would bet that was already said


----------



## PACman

chrisn said:


> I did not go back and read it but I would bet that was already said


Well....you have plenty of time this weekend. Have at it.


----------



## Trox

Most of the professional contractors on here are washed up probably fat old men who have a sense of entitlement and superiority. Just picture all of the local paint contractors you have ever met and seen and I would assume these same bratty fat old guys fit the bill. 

I enjoy seeing a younger pragmatic individual seeking professional advice. I'm not the best contractor in the world but I made over 100k last year in my pocket painting and remodeling homes and here is my pricing bud. People will argue it and that is fine but I always make money with this formula and I have two employees. I'm also open to learning new methods and adjusting existing ones. Stay humble in your approach, the world is always changing and you'll want to change with it to survive. 

This thread is old but if you read through it like I just did here we go... 

Exterior - $1 / sq ft of floor space. Does not include materials. I never include materials in my bids and just tell customers how paint contractors are crooks generally and want to make money on their discounted paint. They love the honesty and its true you all know it. Also this allows the customer to have a discussion about the quality of paint and I pass my savings on to them. (Does not align well with my aforementioned pragmatic approach but it makes for ease of estimating going by floor space and I've yet to lose money) If there is prep work beyond a good pressure washing I usually just figure in the estimated time for said work
Interior one color - $1/ sq ft of floor space 
Ceiling cut in - $1.50 ... again does not include materials. Also quick tip... spray your walls first, lap onto the ceiling. Then use a 3m tape gun to mask the wall at the ceiling. Use painters plastic to cover the walls and tuck it up under the paper. Also to avoid bleeding through the tape give a very light bead of clear acrylic caulking to the tape to seal it so you can spray the ceiling paint on heavy without fear of bleeds. Pull the paper and there is no touch up. Just make sure that bead is super thin and only acting as a seal. Frog tape works but you have to activate it with a damp sponge for it to really seal. I am not partial to the latter. 
Trim - $2 lineal foot for sand and spackle on new construction. I like to spray the trim first, mask it off then walls then ceilings but it doesn't always go that way. 
Doors - $75 for both sides of interior doors. Invest in some "Door Deckers" I much prefer the horizontal spraying and stacking vs standing them up with a paint stick or other methods I have seen. That is just me personally.

Don't let some of the old salty men get you down on this site. Most of them are lower middle class burn outs that lost their job at sherman williams. 

Winners act like winners, just as professionals act like professionals.


----------



## ridesarize

So how many man hours are your millwork and wallouts taking? Say for a 2500 to 3000 sq ft home.


----------



## chrisn

Trox said:


> Most of the professional contractors on here are washed up probably fat old men who have a sense of entitlement and superiority. Just picture all of the local paint contractors you have ever met and seen and I would assume these same bratty fat old guys fit the bill.
> 
> I enjoy seeing a younger pragmatic individual seeking professional advice. I'm not the best contractor in the world but I made over 100k last year in my pocket painting and remodeling homes and here is my pricing bud. People will argue it and that is fine but I always make money with this formula and I have two employees. I'm also open to learning new methods and adjusting existing ones. Stay humble in your approach, the world is always changing and you'll want to change with it to survive.
> 
> This thread is old but if you read through it like I just did here we go...
> 
> Exterior - $1 / sq ft of floor space. Does not include materials. I never include materials in my bids and just tell customers how paint contractors are crooks generally and want to make money on their discounted paint. They love the honesty and its true you all know it. Also this allows the customer to have a discussion about the quality of paint and I pass my savings on to them. (Does not align well with my aforementioned pragmatic approach but it makes for ease of estimating going by floor space and I've yet to lose money) If there is prep work beyond a good pressure washing I usually just figure in the estimated time for said work
> Interior one color - $1/ sq ft of floor space
> Ceiling cut in - $1.50 ... again does not include materials. Also quick tip... spray your walls first, lap onto the ceiling. Then use a 3m tape gun to mask the wall at the ceiling. Use painters plastic to cover the walls and tuck it up under the paper. Also to avoid bleeding through the tape give a very light bead of clear acrylic caulking to the tape to seal it so you can spray the ceiling paint on heavy without fear of bleeds. Pull the paper and there is no touch up. Just make sure that bead is super thin and only acting as a seal. Frog tape works but you have to activate it with a damp sponge for it to really seal. I am not partial to the latter.
> Trim - $2 lineal foot for sand and spackle on new construction. I like to spray the trim first, mask it off then walls then ceilings but it doesn't always go that way.
> Doors - $75 for both sides of interior doors. Invest in some "Door Deckers" I much prefer the horizontal spraying and stacking vs standing them up with a paint stick or other methods I have seen. That is just me personally.
> 
> Don't let some of the old salty men get you down on this site. Most of them are lower middle class burn outs that lost their job at sherman williams.
> 
> Winners act like winners, just as professionals act like professionals.


I never worked @ SW and doubt any of the rest of us "old salty men" did either. Pretty bold(and false) statement


----------



## Epoxy Pro

Trox said:


> Most of the professional contractors on here are washed up probably fat old men who have a sense of entitlement and superiority. Just picture all of the local paint contractors you have ever met and seen and I would assume these same bratty fat old guys fit the bill.
> 
> I enjoy seeing a younger pragmatic individual seeking professional advice. I'm not the best contractor in the world but I made over 100k last year in my pocket painting and remodeling homes and here is my pricing bud. People will argue it and that is fine but I always make money with this formula and I have two employees. I'm also open to learning new methods and adjusting existing ones. Stay humble in your approach, the world is always changing and you'll want to change with it to survive.
> 
> This thread is old but if you read through it like I just did here we go...
> 
> Exterior - $1 / sq ft of floor space. Does not include materials. I never include materials in my bids and just tell customers how paint contractors are crooks generally and want to make money on their discounted paint. They love the honesty and its true you all know it. Also this allows the customer to have a discussion about the quality of paint and I pass my savings on to them. (Does not align well with my aforementioned pragmatic approach but it makes for ease of estimating going by floor space and I've yet to lose money) If there is prep work beyond a good pressure washing I usually just figure in the estimated time for said work
> Interior one color - $1/ sq ft of floor space
> Ceiling cut in - $1.50 ... again does not include materials. Also quick tip... spray your walls first, lap onto the ceiling. Then use a 3m tape gun to mask the wall at the ceiling. Use painters plastic to cover the walls and tuck it up under the paper. Also to avoid bleeding through the tape give a very light bead of clear acrylic caulking to the tape to seal it so you can spray the ceiling paint on heavy without fear of bleeds. Pull the paper and there is no touch up. Just make sure that bead is super thin and only acting as a seal. Frog tape works but you have to activate it with a damp sponge for it to really seal. I am not partial to the latter.
> Trim - $2 lineal foot for sand and spackle on new construction. I like to spray the trim first, mask it off then walls then ceilings but it doesn't always go that way.
> Doors - $75 for both sides of interior doors. Invest in some "Door Deckers" I much prefer the horizontal spraying and stacking vs standing them up with a paint stick or other methods I have seen. That is just me personally.
> 
> Don't let some of the old salty men get you down on this site. Most of them are lower middle class burn outs that lost their job at sherman williams.
> 
> Winners act like winners, just as professionals act like professionals.


I wouldn't get out of bed for the prices you say. Race to the bottom continues.

Most of us old salts have more experience in our pinkies than you think.


----------



## Wildbill7145

Thanks for posting on _PaintTalk.com_. Straight pricing questions are frowned upon here, as are 'Going Rate' questions. If you are a contractor seeking advice regarding your pricing structure, the Moderators of this forum would like to direct you to this pricing thread - Pricing, Estimating and Success.
 
_PaintTalk.com_ is designed for professional contractors to discuss issues and topics related to the commercial and residential painting industries. 

We apologize for any inconvenience that this may have caused. This thread has been closed.


----------

