# Primer&paint peeling with tape



## walldog (Jul 28, 2011)

About a month ago I worked on a HO's house retexturing all interior walls. Ceiling had popcorn and some other contractor had removed and skim coated smooth almost to a level 5. House was vacant, so we spray primed all fresh drywall with PVA. She wanted ceiling sprayed so we sprayed Dunn Edwards Versa flat. Not my product of choice but HO did not want to spend much. So, last week she tells me she is painting walls and blue tape is peeling paint paint randomly off of ceiling. She said a painter with 40 yrs experience told her that spraying when humidity levels are in single numbers causes paint molecules to reduce by 50%. We did paint on the hotest dryest month of the year but I don't think this was the reason. I figure we did not wipe off the dust off enough, especially it being a smooth finish. Here in Tucson, smooth finish is not common and I have not had this problem withe textured walls.
Anyway, HO wants me to roll a coat of paint, which I don't mind but will this fix the peeling issue? Should I prime with Guadz or another high quality primer first? Maybe just prime the corners where she will be putting her tape?
Any suggestions greatly appreciated.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

she should stop sticking tape to the ceilimg. IMO it is not ur problem.


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## walldog (Jul 28, 2011)

I was thinking of offering to cut in all her walls to ceiling. She still owes me $1700. Not even half of that was for the painting portion.
Notice she was being very nit picky with window install guys.


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## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

Did you backroll when you sprayed the pva?
Did you broom the surfaces at all? Damp wipe? Anything?

Peeling in large sheets? Pieces? Only in certain spots or everywhere she has masked? 

Was all the paint work done a month ago? As in has it fully cured prior to her placing tape on the surface?

Your coating should be able to pass a tape adhesion test around 10 days or so. 
http://www.painttalk.com/f6/adhesion-test-7321/

As for guardz, it was my understanding that most use that product in lieu of pva as it is suppose to prevent the paper surface from razing and or fuzzing. 

If the primer coat is having adhesion issues any coating placed above said coat is going to be succeptable to the same failure IMHO.


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## walldog (Jul 28, 2011)

Broom swept ceiling. Did not wet wipe it. Ceiling had been painted since beginning of June, about a month. Did not back roll. Paint only peeling in certain spots. Ceiling in bathroom where we did a hand trowel texture is not peeling. Might of been first time I sprayed a smooth ceiling. Backrolling sounds like a good idea for smoothwalls.
Any recommendation on what to do now?


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

Well you did say Dunn Edwards - That stuff is junk if you ask me..

Pat


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## walldog (Jul 28, 2011)

Tucson folk are used to lower quality building standards and drywall/paint contractors go around bidding that way. Since my paint pricing is based on volume, I get stick with paying 30-40% more than the bigger outfits. 
I am realizing though that I might have to bight the bullet and stick to Premium.


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## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

I Don't have any experience spraying.
All I do know is what ive been told...the atomized paint has a tendency to lay on the thin layer of dust vs the wall unless backrolled... Which physically pushes the paint onto/into the surface. 

If it was me and she still owed me money, I might just sand the problem areas in an outward radial pattern until I reach paint that is adhereing then spot coat the problem spots with with a problem surface sealer like guardz, possibly patch, prime and since its flat just touch up. Spotting with guardz (ask me how I know) will flash the spotted areas tho if you were thinking you could just guardz then paint. 


However I'm sure there is someone with more experience than me to weigh in.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Did the peeling areas have drywall dust / mud on the back or did it have primer? It could be an adhesion issue with the mud etc. 

On a separate note why does she still owe you $1700 if you finished a month ago?

Tape pulling paint off doesn't necessarily mean its your fault. Bankrolling the primer may have helped, but also maybe not. I don't know if the backfilling would have helped as it sounds like it was in the corners where the rolling might not have reached anyways. 

If you can touchup in an hour or so, maybe just do it while telling her its most likely not your fault but you want to keep a good relationship etc


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## walldog (Jul 28, 2011)

I didn't skim coat the ceiling. A previous contractor did so I do not know what he used. It appears primer and paint are both pealing. I just got a quick look the other day and didn't due any testing. I'll be meeting her tomorrow and try a few things. 
We started off texturing all of her walls and changing square corners to bullnose. She was getting new windows installed and we had to wait for them to come in and install before finishing around them. Turns out Lowes screwd some up and it took longer than planned. This is why she still owes me the $1700.
I usually don't like to ask for money until I'm finished, although she has already payed $2000 from original bid.
Rolling the ceiling once won't take long. Only about a thousand square ft. I'll just have to tell her ill do it if that's what she wants but will not be responsible for any more paint peeling.


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## jenni (Aug 4, 2011)

lots of factors at play. maybe since primer was not backrolled it was just sitting on top of the surface of dust instead of bonding. situtation would be exacerbated if primer was not fully dry before applying first coat of paint. too heavy to bond. 

this happened once to me out in key west. the humidity there was wretched. i thought primer was dry after a day and it was not. paint peeled off with the blue tape!


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## walldog (Jul 28, 2011)

You live and you learn. I've never back rolled or seen any other painter back roll in this town. Our walls either have knockdown or hawk and trowel texture, which maybe helps our primer/paints better. Well, I learned with smooth finish you need a little more attention. 
Jenni, it also makes sense that the primer might have still been wet. I did not do anything different that I hadn't done in previous spray ceiling jobs. Only difference was this was smooth wall.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Above all the rest that has already been said

PVA primer


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## walldog (Jul 28, 2011)

So I went and met the HO to talk about the peeling paint issue. I tested the ceilings where we textured and paint did not peel. I think this soften her up a bit and she agreed for me to just touch up areas that peeled. She agreed not to tape ceilings anymore. I think she saw I was being honest with her about this being the first time I had this issue. She paid me in full and seems to be ok with everything.
Anyway, next time I spray smooth wall, I'm back rolling. Not worth the risk.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Glad it worked out! Every now and then the home team wins one!


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## propainterJ (Jan 31, 2011)

The problem is the smoothness of the ceiling,almost level 5 you said.

She needs to use frog tape,see,when you have a really smooth surface,the tape sticks too good.

We've had this problem for years,always on the lighter flatter textures.

It isn't that you didn't clean off drywall dust,hell the pressure from your airless sprayer does that as soon as you pull the trigger.

The problem is wrong tape,just try it,you did nothing wrong,do not do more for her,u done u collect check and run to bank


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## Krittterkare (Jul 12, 2013)

propainterJ said:


> The problem is the smoothness of the ceiling,almost level 5 you said.
> 
> She needs to use frog tape,see,when you have a really smooth surface,the tape sticks too good.
> 
> ...


Agreed, about the only time we have had problems with tape pulling up paint was on smooth surfaces, usually really old bad surfaces and new ones. If the lady did the taping even with blue tape she may have really pressed down the tape to much a common amateur mistake. I carry around a roll of blue tape for such surfaces and if I have to I buy some green tape.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

OMG the problem is spreading from Cleveland to Arizona. Wall primers not sticking, go figure. Blame dust, blame application, blame everything but the primer. 

Problems like this exist because painters are not calling out their paint reps and compensating contractors who have to fix the problem. This issue is very common and its a situation like this when someone applies tape to a weak surface that the problem is exposed. Otherwise no one would ever know the primer didn't stick. 

What I would do now is get a paint rep out and do your own new samples. Take that PVA and put it on drywall and test for adhesion using the same tape she used. Find out how long that tape stayed on the surface too before she removed it.


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