# Rough cedar Siding Prep suggestions



## Mr Smith (Mar 11, 2016)

This job I'm bidding on is in rough shape. The homeowner claims that he didn't attempt to power wash it but I'm not so sure. It has the classic look of getting too close with the wand (at too high of pressure) and stripping it down to the fibers.

The 2nd photo is the "good" side. I don't think you can see the extensive damage in the backyard photo. I see no way of sanding it down to look presentable. I don't like the prospect of filling it that deep with spackle either.

I was thinking about sealing it with an oil primer (by brush and roller) and then spraying 2 coats of a quality flat exterior paint. Obviously, there will be a lot of sanding to do with 80 grit paper with an orbital. I'll sand first then prime.


----------



## jr.sr. painting (Dec 6, 2013)

Plan on using atleast 2 grits for that. 80 alone will leave swirls. You'd be surprised at what you can Sand out of cedar. It's very time consuming though. Consider a sheet sander it's much easier to use on clapboard. Watch what brand of sheet sander you use. Some of them don't have any strength. I've had luck with craftsman and dewalt. The makita I own is a p***y


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mr Smith (Mar 11, 2016)

jr.sr. painting said:


> Plan on using atleast 2 grits for that. 80 alone will leave swirls. You'd be surprised at what you can Sand out of cedar. It's very time consuming though. Consider a sheet sander it's much easier to use on clapboard. Watch what brand of sheet sander you use. Some of them don't have any strength. I've had luck with craftsman and dewalt. The makita I own is a p***y
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'll use a 1/4 sheet Porter Cable palm sander. I've owned several of them over the years and they are excellent. I don't use my Festool dustless system outside.

Yeah, I'll start out with 80 grit and finish with 120.

That's a ton of prep work and I have my doubts that the homeowner will pay to do the job properly. Afterall, he did let that house fall to pieces. 

The priming is going to be slow because I don't like to spray oil-based primer outside. It just travels too far without drying.


----------



## kmp (Jan 30, 2011)

Not a comment on the project but if festool are as good as they are supposed to be, and certainly expensive why would you not use it outside. Are they not that durable for outside use? I do not own any of their tools so I don't know.


----------



## jr.sr. painting (Dec 6, 2013)

Find out what color they plan on using. With all the sun the back of that house looks like it gets the oil will end up with bubbles. It seems to be the way oil primer is headed. It's been happening to us the past few years. Various manufacturers of their "exterior slow dry oil." High quality exterior latex primer and two high quality too coats and you'll be fine. Why Sand off most of what could be assumed to be atleast an original Prime coat of oil just to put it back on. That new pine clapboard on the back will bleed no matter what. That stuff is brutal to paint. It's only easy on the wallet compared to new cedar clapboard 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mr Smith (Mar 11, 2016)

jr.sr. painting said:


> Find out what color they plan on using. With all the sun the back of that house looks like it gets *the oil will end up with bubbles.* It seems to be the way oil primer is headed. It's been happening to us the past few years. Various manufacturers of their "exterior slow dry oil." High quality exterior latex primer and two high quality too coats and you'll be fine. Why Sand off most of what could be assumed to be atleast an original Prime coat of oil just to put it back on. That new pine clapboard on the back will bleed no matter what. That stuff is brutal to paint. It's only easy on the wallet compared to new cedar clapboard
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This has never happened to me. An oil-based primer will probably not cause any bubbling. Alkyd paint, yes, but not an alkyd primer. This is one of the few jobs where I will use an oil-based primer.

I live in a Canadian city where we might only have a month of 80+ degree weather. I could see paint delamination and bubbling happening in the southern states where it reaches 100+ degrees quite often. That's if there have been years and years of coatings on the substrate built up.


----------



## jr.sr. painting (Dec 6, 2013)

I can see Canada across Lake Erie everyday when I'm driving and it's not all that oppressive here in the summer. The painting industry on both sides (manufacturing/selling and consumers/applicators) needs to realize as long as the government is gonna stick their noses in and regulate, the oil or alkyd based products of the past are gone. We do plenty of work on old wood houses including a lot of rotted wood replacement. Unless something is stained or has a real specific need for oil we just use latex. There are good "systems" with certain products that will yield the same result and last longer than oil. I'm not saying to change your approach but be open to change. I was stubborn about changing from oil for a long time. It can be done without. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Latex primer on bare cedar? Not me.

Applying the oil primer by brush will probably serve you better than spraying, unless you backbrushed behind the spraying.

And if you have a Rotex Festool sander, that would be more efficient than any sheet sander I'm familiar with. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mr Smith (Mar 11, 2016)

slinger58 said:


> Latex primer on bare cedar? Not me.
> 
> Applying the oil primer by brush will probably serve you better than spraying, unless you backbrushed behind the spraying.
> 
> ...


I have no intention of stripping it 100% down to the bare wood. That would be insanely expensive and I personally would not want to do it. There is no way that these owners would pay an extra $2500 to get it done. The siding is cracked and bowed in many places. Not worth the investment. A 1/4 sheet sander is perfect for the job. I own a Rotex. I prefer the square profile of a palm sander on these jobs. I agree the Rotex is a beast at stripping wood.

RE: Application. A 2-gallon paint bucket with a metal grid and a 4.5" wooster Jumbo Koter mini roller, and a paint brush to backroll. The lower stuff I'll use a 9" roller for greater coverage.


----------



## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Mr Smith said:


> I have no intention of stripping it 100% down to the bare wood. That would be insanely expensive and I personally would not want to do it. There is no way that these owners would pay an extra $2500 to get it done. The siding is cracked and bowed in many places. Not worth the investment. A 1/4 sheet sander is perfect for the job. I own a Rotex. I prefer the square profile of a palm sander on these jobs. I agree the Rotex is a beast at stripping wood.
> 
> RE: Application. A 2-gallon paint bucket with a metal grid and a 4.5" wooster Jumbo Koter mini roller, and a paint brush to backroll. The lower stuff I'll use a 9" roller for greater coverage.


OK, just gonna feather the peeling. Still your gonna have some bare cedar to prime (or spot prime). And in my world, bare cedar calls for an oil primer.


----------



## Mr Smith (Mar 11, 2016)

slinger58 said:


> OK, just gonna feather the peeling. Still your gonna have some bare cedar to prime (or spot prime). And in my world, bare cedar calls for an oil primer.


Yeah spot prime with alkyd on the two good sides, and complete prime on the two bad sides.


----------



## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

Why not just go with a solid stain and be done? That's probably what's on it right now anyway....

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Why sissy around with a palm sander. A 6" grinder is way faster. If its failing, it has to come off regardless. It's amazing how fast you can burn through that with some 24 grit. Either that or just replace the clapboard.. It looks horrible!


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Tannin bleed. Stop it with a TRUE long oil alkyd primer. OR use a TRUE long oil alkyd solid stain. They still exist, but good luck finding them The EPA didn't regulate them out of existence, just changed the regulations so manufacturers have to use VOC complying solvents to manufacture them. In other words "EXPENSIVE" solvents to manufacture them! And most paint companies have no desire to put a $60 a gallon primer on the shelf at the local discount home improvement warehouse. They are available, just not at your local box store. Or SW for that matter.


----------



## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Several contractors here use media blaster for these types of jobs.. walnut shell, soda blast etc


----------



## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

That’s a typical re- Paint job here in my part of New England. Been doing them for years in our sleep. Your approach seems fine. Doesn’t have to be a long oil though , BM or Cali trouble shooter quick dry oil will work fine. We do let it dry overnight we are not fans of long oils anymore especially where The Sun is hammering away. They are not the same animal as back in the day. They can take weeks to dry and still are soft. The quick dry for us left to dry overnight works best.


----------



## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

kmp said:


> Not a comment on the project but if festool are as good as they are supposed to be, and certainly expensive why would you not use it outside. Are they not that durable for outside use? I do not own any of their tools so I don't know.


You could certainly use it outside if you wanted to - I do with mine. But that’s mainly because it is such a great sander. 

Although you can run them independently of the extraction unit (they have a bag option), they are designed to be most effective hooked to the extractor and doing so while trying to sand the siding on a two story house would be somewhat challenging.


----------



## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

thinkpainting/nick said:


> That’s a typical re- Paint job here in my part of New England. Been doing them for years in our sleep. Your approach seems fine. Doesn’t have to be a long oil though , BM or Cali trouble shooter quick dry oil will work fine. We do let it dry overnight we are not fans of long oils anymore especially where The Sun is hammering away. They are not the same animal as back in the day. They can take weeks to dry and still are soft. The quick dry for us left to dry overnight works best.


I am glad to see I am not the only one with that opinion. MadDog or BM 094 or BM 366 for us.


----------

