# Time to buy a pressure washer!



## Anchors Aweigh Paint (Apr 16, 2015)

It's something that I will use probably less than ten times a year. What do you regular users reccommend? I hear the Simpson units are good, but thats about it.


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

Depends on what your end goal is. I bought a simpson with the plan of starting to downstream my houses for paint prep. It broke (the injector) on the second job and I never could get it working so I ended up buying a new belt drive unit. The simpson is just sitting in my garage now, once I have some time I will keep trying to get it working. 

If you are only going to use it about 10 times a year, would you be better off just renting?


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## Mike2coat (Nov 12, 2013)

I bought mine from SW its a MiTM. it works great.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Hines Painting said:


> Depends on what your end goal is. I bought a simpson with the plan of starting to downstream my houses for paint prep. It broke (the injector) on the second job and I never could get it working so I ended up buying a new belt drive unit. The simpson is just sitting in my garage now, once I have some time I will keep trying to get it working.
> 
> If you are only going to use it about 10 times a year, would you be better off just renting?



I was looking into renting one from the big orange box. A 2000 - 2700 psi (MiTM) was $79 a day. I think if he needs it ten times, it's better to buy. PLUS there's next year. AND the convenience of having it at his disposal. 

HOWEVER, if he hasn't decided which one to BUY, he could rent different ones and see which suits his needs.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Hines Painting said:


> Depends on what your end goal is. I bought a simpson with the plan of starting to downstream my houses for paint prep. It broke (the injector) on the second job and I never could get it working so I ended up buying a new belt drive unit. The simpson is just sitting in my garage now, once I have some time I will keep trying to get it working.
> 
> If you are only going to use it about 10 times a year, would you be better off just renting?


Or subbing to a cleaning company.


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

If you have the storage space and don't mind maintaining it yourself, buy.

If no to either of above, rent/sub.


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

Also, whenever this question comes up in the pressure washing sub forum here on painttalk, the more info you give those experts the better answers you receive.

What exactly will you be using it for? Roofs, siding, parking lots?

What chems?

Plan on using it for 2 or 3 hours at a time, less than 10 times a year?

Plan on using it for 10 multi day projects a year?

How heavy of an object are you willing to load/unload from your truck by yourself?


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## Anchors Aweigh Paint (Apr 16, 2015)

I paint paint said:


> Also, whenever this question comes up in the pressure washing forum, the more info you give those experts the better answers you receive.
> 
> What exactly will you be using it for? Roofs, siding, parking lots?
> 
> ...


Siding for sure, maybe other things.

Not sure what chems, but for sure stuff for mildew.

I'd say 4 hours average use.

Most likely not.

I don't want a tank - I'll be unloading it myself in/out of my Chevy Express 2500. I'm gonna try using my aluminium platform from my Baker to load/unload (hopefully).



I paint paint said:


> If you have the storage space and don't mind maintaining it yourself, buy.
> 
> If no to either of above, rent/sub.


Just sold my 66 Mustang, so I now have room to store 



Mike2coat said:


> I bought mine from SW its a MiTM. it works great.


MiTM was what my old company always had. Never had an issue with them!

Thanks for the help, people!


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Once we switched to down streaming/ soft washing and got a 4 gpm pump, our time spent washing a house dropped dramatically. I would say that the washing portion is much more profitable per hour than the painting.


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## Anchors Aweigh Paint (Apr 16, 2015)

DeanV said:


> Once we switched to down streaming/ soft washing and got a 4 gpm pump


Whats that??


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## Mike2coat (Nov 12, 2013)

Anchors Aweigh Paint said:


> Siding for sure, maybe other things. Not sure what chems, but for sure stuff for mildew. I'd say 4 hours average use. Most likely not. I don't want a tank - I'll be unloading it myself in/out of my Chevy Express 2500. I'm gonna try using my aluminium platform from my Baker to load/unload (hopefully). Just sold my 66 Mustang, so I now have room to store  MiTM was what my old company always had. Never had an issue with them! Thanks for the help, people!


what is this platform you spoke of


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## The Cutting Edge (May 25, 2014)

I'm in the same boat. Been using a contractor friends washer. Time to buy. Downstreaming seems like the way to go. There are a lot of videos on youtube about it. I'd like to hear from the other guys here that use the system. Here's a good vid explaining how it works.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7x5hLxo21s&list=PLbLTw4ieTCDDI3NdWwm2nyl8KDhsZcDsp


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## allaboutfun (Apr 2, 2015)

Anchors Aweigh Paint said:


> Siding for sure, maybe other things.
> 
> Not sure what chems, but for sure stuff for mildew.
> 
> ...


Sold your 66 Mustang? Almost teared up on that one. I'm sure you had a good reason.


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## Andyman (Feb 21, 2009)

DeanV said:


> Once we switched to down streaming/ soft washing and got a 4 gpm pump, our time spent washing a house dropped dramatically. I would say that the washing portion is much more profitable per hour than the painting.



Just got my 4gpm rig so I'm still figuring it out. Here's my question regarding soft wash. Typically I am also using the higher pressure to remove loose paint while washing. When soft washing I don't think you are able to remove flake- just purely washing? So maybe it's an easier wash but you are not able to do much removal.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

Andyman said:


> Just got my 4gpm rig so I'm still figuring it out. Here's my question regarding soft wash. Typically I am also using the higher pressure to remove loose paint while washing. When soft washing I don't think you are able to remove flake- just purely washing? So maybe it's an easier wash but you are not able to do much removal.



Save the paint removal for your return trip when you can scrape & contain the chips, (versus just blasting them all over hell & back). Doing what you're doing now on any home built before 1978 could result in steep fines, depending upon where you live.


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## The Cutting Edge (May 25, 2014)

Just switch out the tip.


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## Andyman (Feb 21, 2009)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> Save the paint removal for your return trip when you can scrape & contain the chips, (versus just blasting them all over hell & back). Doing what you're doing now on any home built before 1978 could result in steep fines, depending upon where you live.



Most of my market is 10 year old homes for the first repaint. Not much scraping really but it's nice to blast it when I see it.


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## Andyman (Feb 21, 2009)

The Cutting Edge said:


> Just switch out the tip.



I guess that's easy enough.


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## Andyman (Feb 21, 2009)

Second question. How much concentrated soap should you use on a say 3k sqft house?


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## The Cutting Edge (May 25, 2014)

Depends on manufacturer. I've been looking into Power House. They say 5 gal will do 5-7 houses. But shipping 5 gal is almost as much as the product itself.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

Andyman said:


> Second question. How much concentrated soap should you use on a say 3k sqft house?



Go to www.pressuretek.com and order Elemonator. Best PW'ing surfactant available IMO. Bleach stable, rinses well, and takes just 4oz in a 5 gal mix when downstreaming.


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

If the house doesn't have much mildew I use 2 gallons of pool shock, 3 gallons of water and 5-6 oz of elemonator. If it has above average mildew I go with 3 gallons pool shock and 2 gallons water. 

I'm not very fast at it yet (as in the speed), but I use 5-7 gallons of product on an 1800 sf home, and around 10-12 on a 2000-2500 sf home. You can wash most houses in 1.5-3 hours. After I'm done downstreaming the cleaner I will knock off anything really loose with a turbo nozzle at a far enough distance to not damage siding. Anything else gets scraped and sanded before painting. 

Now that I've experienced downstreaming I will never go back to pure pressure. It is so much slower.


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

I am a believer in buying once and buying right when it comes to anything I use to make money. I'd rather go for a little overkill than have either a cheaper tool break in the middle of a job or slow me down. A decent 4 gpm belt drive or gear drive will set you back $1,300 or so. 

Is it worth it? 

I'll answer that by quoting the numbers on a typical 2500 s.f house. 4-5 gallons of 12% sodium hypochlorite (liquid pool shock from a pool supply) 12 oz of the soap I use = $25 material. That would be applying chem heavy via downstreaming. Add a gallon or two of gas and whatever labor you have in. Most pros (with a larger machine) could do that solo in about 1.5 hrs and bill $350-$500 with their feet never leaving the ground. 

I know many one-man shows doing 3-4 of those per day. How many painting jobs yield $1,200+ in labor billing per day?


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I sent out 2 guys to do some power washing and they did 2 houses around 2,500 sq. ft. and one house around 5,000 sq. ft. and were done by 4:00 back at the shop and punched out. And we are for certain not as efficient as Ken's crews. 

I sent 4 guys out to do six houses (wanted 2 more trained on how to power wash) and they were done by 2:00. Including cleaning decks. These were all houses in the same development.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Recently started subbing our washing to a soft wash company. For the most part it's been fine, but this particular company is a little too cocky with the "wash everything from the ground" deal. House were on now has above roof line gables. The highest parts aren't as clean as I would like. I'm having to go back over parts of it. 

I'm sure it has more to do with the specific job and crew than soft washing in general, but it seems like with the way some two and three story houses are laid out that you just can't get it totally clean from the ground. The angles necessary to do it just don't work out. Sure, you can clean everything you can See from the ground, but I'm wondering how well it really can work for paint prep in certain situations. 

Geeze guys, at least get on a ladder so you can get a decent angle on what your washing. 

The next house is a log home with failing semi trans. My gut says to blast it with high pressure to remove the old stain. I guess we'll try the soft wash approach and see how that goes. I know pressure washing for prep on wood is falling out of favor, but I'm not sure we need to do away with it all together. 

I asked the wash guy about getting the old stain off. He said he'd "crank it up a little"...I'll see how it turns out I guess.


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## Anchors Aweigh Paint (Apr 16, 2015)

Mike2coat said:


> what is this platform you spoke of


Look up 6ft aluminum baker scaffold.


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## Anchors Aweigh Paint (Apr 16, 2015)

allaboutfun said:


> Sold your 66 Mustang? Almost teared up on that one. I'm sure you had a good reason.


Just sat in the garage. She needed to be driven, and I can't afford the gas or the space to keep her when I need more room for tools. At least I got 16,000 for her.

So downstreaming is just a soapy pre-wash? I thought thats how you would normally power wash a dirty surface...


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Anchors Aweigh Paint said:


> Just sat in the garage. She needed to be driven, and I can't afford the gas or the space to keep her when I need more room for tools. At least I got 16,000 for her.
> 
> 
> 
> So downstreaming is just a soapy pre-wash? I thought thats how you would normally power wash a dirty surface...



Downstreaming is using the pressure washer with an intake (down stream of the pump) to apply the soap/bleach. It's much faster and more efficient than using a separate sprayer to apply soap. 

Years ago I used to wash houses using pump up and backpack sprayers to apply chems. Downstreaming was a god send.


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## Anchors Aweigh Paint (Apr 16, 2015)

Jmayspaint said:


> Downstreaming is using the pressure washer with an intake (down stream of the pump) to apply the soap/bleach. It's much faster and more efficient than using a separate sprayer to apply soap.
> 
> Years ago I used to wash houses using pump up and backpack sprayers to apply chems. Downstreaming was a god send.


Thats kinda what I meant hahaha! Yeah, all of our washing was done that way, mostly. I just never knew it ha a name


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Jmayspaint said:


> Recently started subbing our washing to a soft wash company. For the most part it's been fine, but this particular company is a little too cocky with the "wash everything from the ground" deal. House were on now has above roof line gables. The highest parts aren't as clean as I would like. I'm having to go back over parts of it.
> 
> I'm sure it has more to do with the specific job and crew than soft washing in general, but it seems like with the way some two and three story houses are laid out that you just can't get it totally clean from the ground. The angles necessary to do it just don't work out. Sure, you can clean everything you can See from the ground, but I'm wondering how well it really can work for paint prep in certain situations.
> 
> ...


I think you're right here, Josh. Washing as prep for painting can be a different animal from washing as a final product.


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## Anchors Aweigh Paint (Apr 16, 2015)

So.. go with a downstreaming MiTM?


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

Anchors Aweigh Paint said:


> So.. go with a downstreaming MiTM?



What's your budget? You can spend around 1k and get a good direct drive that could last you for 5-10 years if you're only using it occasionally, (provided you take care of it). Only thing is with direct drives, you lose the option of being able to pull water from a tank, (not a big deal if you'll always have a reliable water source which puts out more GPM's than your pump). 

-or, 

For around $1,500, you could get a belt-drive, which could last you 20 years or more if you take care of it. You'd have the option of using either water from a spigot, or pulling water from a tank. Other than being a little more expensive and quite a bit heavier, there's no other disadvantage to belt-drive. 

No matter the brand you buy, look for these common denominators and you can't go wrong:

-4GPM, and stay under 5GPM unless you're adding a buffer tank, cuz water spigots will not consistently provide ample water, which could cause your pump to cavitate. 
-Honda GX 390 engine
-External Unloader, (since it's usually one of the first things to fail and if you buy a washer with the unloader built into the pump, it can't be replaced without replacing the entire pump, which ends up costing about $500-$700).
- Don't get wrapped up in PSI. Unless you're doing concrete cleaning, you'll rarely need more than 2k psi.


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

slinger58 said:


> I think you're right here, Josh. Washing as prep for painting can be a different animal from washing as a final product.


:yes: Yep, two different beasts. I may be able to hit everything on a house no matter what the height or angle with soap, but some parts that may need some pressure may not be accessible from the ground. I generally charge 30%-300% more for paint prep depending on what's happening with the current coating.


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

Jmayspaint said:


> I asked the wash guy about getting the old stain off. He said he'd "crank it up a little"...I'll see how it turns out I guess.


House washers and wood guys are two different niches. Many house wash guys are clueless when it comes to wood prep and finish removal.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

I honestly have never used a pressure washer to prep a surface for painting. I guess I got trained the old fashioned way and never looked back.

Couple of years ago I did buy a Simonize (spelling?) 3K psi rig to use cleaning my deck, etc. Did a little carpentry on the deck getting used to it by mistake. Haven't brought it out this year yet. Hoping I didn't wreck it by not draining it last fall. I did read about that recently on here in a thread I think CDpainting made.

I have to wonder if this might be the year to give it a try prepping for painting.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

Wildbill7145 said:


> I honestly have never used a pressure washer to prep a surface for painting. I guess I got trained the old fashioned way and never looked back.
> 
> Couple of years ago I did buy a Simonize (spelling?) 3K psi rig to use cleaning my deck, etc. Did a little carpentry on the deck getting used to it by mistake. Haven't brought it out this year yet. Hoping I didn't wreck it by not draining it last fall. I did read about that recently on here in a thread I think CDpainting made.
> 
> I have to wonder if this might be the year to give it a try prepping for painting.


Not only is it beneficial to quickly clean the paintable surfaces, but i like to make sure and clean the non-paintable surfaces next to each home, which makes it much easier to mask when I return. This all kinda ties in with Jmays' comment about the fact that washing to prep a house is different that just washing a house to spruce it up. Painters will generally spend more time on the adjacent surfaces to facilitate masking.

Use some good soap and a little bleach, and only pull out the red tip when you're shooting down 2-story wasps nests.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Thanks AAP., and contributing members., this has been an informative thread. 

I have pressure washed many times over the years, and have always believed I had to be right on top of the surface I was cleaning. The info on the down streaming tip options have made me think otherwise.

However, I am in total agreement with Jay concerning a wash in preparation for painting, verses simply a structural wash down. I too have employed the services of a pressure washing contractor to supply wash down for painting preparation, and have never been satisfied as much as I would had I cleaned it myself.

Like Jay says, you have to access areas with a ladder in many structural configurations, in order to properly clean for painting, whether you think so or not.


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## PNW Painter (Sep 5, 2013)

Do a search for "downstreaming" on YouTube. This will answer a ton of questions about what they look like and how they're used.

Downstreaming with a pressure washer is the most efficient way to wash a house. multi-level decks, trellis' or other items that can be tough to get with a pressure washer, but it's still the fastest and most effective way to wash a house. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PNW Painter said:


> Do a search for "downstreaming" on YouTube. This will answer a ton of questions about what they look like and how they're used.
> 
> Downstreaming with a pressure washer is the most efficient way to wash a house. multi-level decks, trellis' or other items that can be tough to get with a pressure washer, but it's still the fastest and most effective way to wash a house.
> 
> ...



There's no doubt that it's quicker, but unless you are able to access every single knock and cranny as required for pre painting preparation, standing on the ground and shooting water up at a three story gable isn't going to be sufficient in my opinion.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

We have been soft washing for the past couple years. It's a real time saver. However, we still need to use ladders and occasionally climb on roofs to get everything sufficiently clean enough for painting prep. The backsides of fascia boards can be impossible to clean from the ground if they are inset over roof lines. As long as you can directly spray it though, anything up to 30' high is easily doable from the ground.


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## Andyman (Feb 21, 2009)

Lets talk about soap mixes. 
If I understand correctly, then a mix of bleach and house wash is all around the most effective. However, bleach is not environmentally friendly. So what other options are there for cleaning mold/mildew that's as effective as sodium hypochlorite?


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

Andyman said:


> Lets talk about soap mixes.
> If I understand correctly, then a mix of bleach and house wash is all around the most effective. However, bleach is not environmentally friendly. So what other options are there for cleaning mold/mildew that's as effective as sodium hypochlorite?


I'm not the resident expert on this topic by any means, but I don't believe there is as good an option as bleach, or we would have been informed by the resident experts.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Andyman said:


> Lets talk about soap mixes.
> If I understand correctly, then a mix of bleach and house wash is all around the most effective. However, bleach is not environmentally friendly. So what other options are there for cleaning mold/mildew that's as effective as sodium hypochlorite?


While we all need to be good stewards of the environment, the adage "dilution is the solution to pollution" needs to be kept in mind more these days. A few gallons of 8-12% bleach diluted by a hundred or so gallons of water is not going to upset the ecosystem much.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

slinger58 said:


> While we all need to be good stewards of the environment, the adage "dilution is the solution to pollution" needs to be kept in mind more these days. A few gallons of 8-12% bleach diluted by a hundred or so gallons of water is not going to upset the ecosystem much.


 You're murdering millions of innocent mold spores!


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

Andyman said:


> Lets talk about soap mixes.
> If I understand correctly, then a mix of bleach and house wash is all around the most effective. However, bleach is not environmentally friendly. So what other options are there for cleaning mold/mildew that's as effective as sodium hypochlorite?


By the time it gets diluted through the pump, it is only about 1% total bleach coming out of the tip. A quick rinse should be enough to keep any plantlife from dying. 

I cleaned a house about a month ago and and after I was finished I found a nest on the ground with baby birds in it; didn't even have feathers. By the end of the job they flew away.


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

That's great to know, Hines.

I would have assumed if the bleach was concentrated enough to do any good at getting rid of mildew, it would kill nearby plants. If you dilute the bleach so much to not harm plants, it would do nothing to the mildew on the house.

I've never downstreamed and like to go on more than my assumptions alone, so it's great to get feedback from folks like you with experience.


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## riskend (Jan 25, 2015)

Love this stuff brethren.
It's a fine art, like good paintwork.
I prefer to apply initial prep solutions, i.e. degreaser, moss, mould, sulphate/sulphide, generic variants etc, by dedicated spray, followed by waiting period and the 3000psi washdown, which we call waterblast. 
This clears away the dross & leaves the difficult bits obvious.
Like many I hired plant where necessary and then realised that annual rental costs equated to two 3000psi plant.
I bought a knockdown Chinese copy of who knows what for NZD300, disabled it's curious oil sensor wiring, adjusted it's governor cable to produce a reputable performance and it can blow up on the next job because it saved me 10-fold on the way.
This gear probably weighs 35kgs so it is portable.
The motto is, keep it clean.
Washdown mitigation at least & ideally, containment.
Thanks boys.


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## Andyman (Feb 21, 2009)

I understand that the bleach dilutes and all but what about your skin and eyes? Still not friendly. Is there really not a friendly alternative to bleach?


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

Andyman said:


> I understand that the bleach dilutes and all but what about your skin and eyes? Still not friendly. Is there really not a friendly alternative to bleach?


Alternatives? Yes. Quartenary ammonium (quats) or sodium percarbonate.

The question is how much work you like to do? They take multiple coats and dwell time to work. You alos often have to use more up close pressure. Can you paint an entire interior with a 2" brush? Of course you could.. 

I am not downplaying the effect of bleach on the skin, eyes and lungs. You should wear a respirator and PPE. The right tools for the job and safety is very important.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I think if you want to be environmentally conscientious, you would target the mold areas with a chlorine solution rather that bomb an entire building with it. Chlorine in of itself is not much of an emulsifier any ways, and wouldn't work as well on dirt and grime.

Which brings up a point with using chlorine, can it be added to something that will help suspend it on a moldy or mildewed surfaces rather than have it just run off?


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

CApainter said:


> .
> 
> Which brings up a point with using chlorine, can it be added to something that will help suspend it on a moldy or mildewed surfaces rather than have it just run off?




That's why some guys add dish soap to the wash mix. I read that trick on here a while back and it seems to help a lot. The suds hold the bleach on the surface longer.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Jmayspaint said:


> That's why some guys add dish soap to the wash mix. I read that trick on here a while back and it seems to help a lot. The suds hold the bleach on the surface longer.


This topic, (within the larger context) re affirms my notion that it takes a little more precise and extensive approach to cleaning a house then hosing it down from the ground level because the pressure washer combined with a downstream injector and compatible tip allows you so. Especially, when chemicals are involved.


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