# Cover Stain or Bin for Smoke Stains



## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

Hi, 
My paint store guy said that only Bin will permanently cover smoke stains form fire place. They do not sell Cover Stain, which might be the reason that the did not suggest it. I was hoping that they had something else that would do the job, but they do not. I was able to find Cover Stain at my local Ace for 1/2 the price it would cost for a gallon of Bin. Do not want to use Bin unless necessary--just do not thing rolling an entire ceiling with it will be fun. Will Cover Stain do the job?


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

BIN is the best bet. In most cases the CS will work, but the odor will linger. Once the Bin is dry- the odor is gone and you can 2 or even 3 coat in a day as necessary. Once you make "friends" with the BIN it is easy and for the most part, fool proof. Just be sure to ventilate and run a fan or 2.


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## WestCoast99 (May 8, 2012)

In my experience BIN seals in the odor well but not heavy smoke and cigarette stains. The last interior I did with extremely heavy water, cigarette, and kitchen grease stains I coated every surface in BIN. The next day stains bled through on most of the ceilings we painted in flat white. Had to then cover stain them all and repaint them. If I ever get another one like it I'll use coverstain first.


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

When on a budget here is my battleplan for black fire smoke damage:

1: clean with aggressive cleaner. We use a product called "amazing" found at the dollar stores.

2: oil prime. Prime with oil in excess of manufacture recommended mil thickness. I sually spray it so i can get it thicker than by rolling. Make that paint almost run. DO NOT BACKROLL or you will thin the paint layer.

3: paint as normal.

Yes you will see some bleedthrough. But trust me it's locked in. 2 good thick coats of regular paint will solve that. 

You either pay for the paint (binz), or for the excess labor. Just depends on what number your customer sees sometimes. Some only look at materials cost, others only look at labor cost.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

I can't see the smoke stains but more likely than not flat paint will cover. IMO
.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

Oden said:


> I can't see the smoke stains but more likely than not flat paint will cover. IMO
> .


They are not really bad. The really weird thing about them is that the stains are not present were the 2 x 4 studs are in the ceiling. Very odd. Not exactly sure if they are smoke stains, only going on what the HO told me. At first I thought it was just a bad paint job, but there are definitely areas that are darker than others.


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## oldccm (Jan 23, 2013)

Paint the ceiling in flat oil. It will smell a bit but look better than flat latex IMO. You can generally get it done in one coat. Not sure if you can get flat oil where you are though? 
If not I would use Coverstain with a latex topcoat


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

driftweed said:


> When on a budget here is my battleplan for black fire smoke damage:
> 
> 1: clean with aggressive cleaner. We use a product called "amazing" found at the dollar stores.
> 
> ...


 
:no:


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

oldccm said:


> Paint the ceiling in flat oil. It will smell a bit but look better than flat latex IMO. You can generally get it done in one coat. Not sure if you can get flat oil where you are though? If not I would use Coverstain with a latex topcoat


Oldccm,

Old school dude. I notice and I dig it. Oil solved so many problems. Err a the lack of it's availability caused so many hassles really is what happened.

We don't got it like that any longer down here any longer. Finish paint in oil just isn't available like that any more. Less and less of the young guys have ever even used it. flat was the first to go. I haven't seen a flat alkyd in like 20 years. Gloss and semi u can get. They carry it under the guise of that it is for industrial use. Kinda hard to sell with flat.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

Oden said:


> Oldccm,
> 
> Old school dude. I notice and I dig it. Oil solved so many problems. Err a the lack of it's availability caused so many hassles really is what happened.
> 
> We don't got it like that any longer down here any longer. Finish paint in oil just isn't available like that any more. Less and less of the young guys have ever even used it. flat was the first to go. I haven't seen a flat alkyd in like 20 years. Gloss and semi u can get. They carry it under the guise of that it is for industrial use. Kinda hard to sell with flat.



I had to tell the HO that it is almost impossible to get interior oil--she believed that it was originally done in oil. But it had only been about eight years, so I doubt it.


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

chrisn said:


> :no:


Tell me about it. Only did that method 3 times and I never get to be the one for step one. I would come in, its "cleaned" by someone the customer hired then they freak out over the cost of binz and somehow overlook the fact that labor is 3 damned times as much...

But boy oh boy did he save money on his paint


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## oldccm (Jan 23, 2013)

Oden said:


> Oldccm,
> 
> Old school dude. I notice and I dig it. Oil solved so many problems. Err a the lack of it's availability caused so many hassles really is what happened.
> 
> We don't got it like that any longer down here any longer. Finish paint in oil just isn't available like that any more. Less and less of the young guys have ever even used it. flat was the first to go. I haven't seen a flat alkyd in like 20 years. Gloss and semi u can get. They carry it under the guise of that it is for industrial use. Kinda hard to sell with flat.




I don't know where they're making these regulatory decisions but I'd like to go there and smack some heads. Where we are oil is still available in flat & gloss. At least I can still fix ceilings with flat. They recently took away the last of my favourite long oil primers so it's all naphtha, acetone flash dry crap. I understand we're trying to save the world here but eliminating oil paint is probably not the solution. Triple the price and make it available only to contractors. No contractors account, no sale. We don't go around using oil for ****s & giggles. For the most part I can get away with hybrids, enamels and acrylics. SOMETIMES I just need real oil though and would pay good money to use it. End rant


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## GSP82 (Feb 20, 2014)

You can't go wrong with the cover stain or bin for smoke stains


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## The 3rd Coat (Aug 17, 2013)

Binz Kil stainz


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## Toolnut (Nov 23, 2012)

I have to vote for the Bin.


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## kingsebi (Jan 27, 2009)

Dude, Cover Stain works for just about everything. I won't go into details. But we recently, reluctantly used Cover Stain over a 20 some year old epoxy floor. One coat. Two years later. The floor still looks awesome!


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

It's been my experience that when I positively want to be sure I am doing it right I'll use BIN. You only have to try and cut corners once and have it come back to bite you in the ass to wish you had done it properly the first time. IMO your paint supplier gave you good advice - so follow it.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

Let me ask this. My main concern with using Bin is that I am concerned with it making a mess. Although I love it, I hate using it. I have only rolled small areas with it using a a four inch and not a entire ceiling. Obviously, I will cover everything, but still Bin seems so "watery" that it is going to get on all of my drop cloths, and then I will have to be concerned about spreading it around the house. Is Cover Stain, which I have never used, any better to work with than Bin.


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## oldccm (Jan 23, 2013)

Yes Coverstain has more 'body' than BIN for sure. Both will splatter rolling a textured ceiling but less with Coverstain. As for tracking through the house BIN is dry to touch in 15-30 min. Coverstain 45-60min.


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## The 3rd Coat (Aug 17, 2013)

To be honest I'd be surprised if a water based stain blocking primer didn't work for that ceiling. Something like Smart Prime or a heavier primer-sealer-undercoat. I'd just wash the ceiling first.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

The 3rd Coat said:


> To be honest I'd be surprised if a water based stain blocking primer didn't work for that ceiling. Something like Smart Prime or a heavier primer-sealer-undercoat. I'd just wash the ceiling first.



I would love to use a water based primer. The problem that I have is that I only have so many options--only one real paint store in my area. If they don't have it, I am doing at least a 45 min. round trip to get it at one of the out of town stores. It is a PITA.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

driftweed said:


> Tell me about it. Only did that method 3 times and I never get to be the one for step one. I would come in, its "cleaned" by someone the customer hired then they freak out over the cost of binz :no:and somehow overlook the fact that labor is 3 damned times as much...
> 
> But boy oh boy did he save money on his paint


the :no: was for the binZ :laughing:


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## The 3rd Coat (Aug 17, 2013)

Mixing up the BIN and the Kilz. I tried to be funny by saying Binz Kil stainz.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Pete the Painter said:


> I would love to use a water based primer. The problem that I have is that I only have so many options--only one real paint store in my area. If they don't have it, I am doing at least a 45 min. round trip to get it at one of the out of town stores. It is a PITA.


22.5 minutes there and 22.5 back :001_huh:? So just make the trip and stock up while you're at it.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

Pete the Painter said:


> I would love to use a water based primer. The problem that I have is that I only have so many options--only one real paint store in my area. If they don't have it, I am doing at least a 45 min. round trip to get it at one of the out of town stores. It is a PITA.



All the more reason to make a list of primers, paints, etc., that you'd use frequently. Things your local store doesn't have. That way, you're not having to drive so far when you're ready to get working. 


Stelzer Painting Inc.


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## David's Painting (Nov 7, 2012)

I have jobs that are 45 min away. I really don't consider that far


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

I choose Coverstain in most cases. 

Odor can be a deciding factor, however. BIN's odor dissipates quicker, as was mentioned. Other than that, I like working with CS much more. I find it easier to work with, it dries almost as fast, and has wonderful bond and stainblocking abilities. Sands great too. 

BIN is more runny and thin, and is more finicky, IMO. I've also had BIN fail to block stains in situations where CS wouldn't. Further, I like the buzz from CS more :blink:


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

Driving 45 mins for a job is not bad, but to get paint...not my favorite thing to do. I will, and have, done it if I have to. Stocking up on paint really is not an option for me now. I rent and have minimal storage.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Sounds like the decision has been made for you - BIN since your local guy has it.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

No, I think that it will be Cover Stain. Local Ace has it. It does not have much, but it does carry Cover Stain. It is Smart Prime that I would have to travel to get.


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## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

Cover stain will block about anything. You made a good choice.


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## fortunerestoration (Mar 6, 2014)

I think BIN is a better choice than Cover Stain when it comes to covering smoke stains from fire place. While reasons are numerous, the biggest advantage with a BIN primer/sealer is that it sticks to all types of surfaces. Plus you can use it on interior and exterior spots both. It normally dries within 45 minutes of use.
However, it is important that you get a quality BIN primer-sealer stain killer that can not only cover smoke stains, but is equally effective on oil stains, mildew stains, water stains, marker pen stains, and nicotine. A good product will also be able to permanently block all kinds of odor. Since most BIN sealers can seal porous surfaces, you can use them for exterior-spot priming on rust and knots. 
When it’s time to choose a stain killer, prefer one with a non-toxic, hypo-allergenic dried film. Such a product is perfect for:




Walls, doors, interior ceilings, and all paintable surfaces
Virtually all kinds of materials including metal, wood and PVC
Areas that are prone to smoke and trace of food items


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## ShermanMoore (Mar 23, 2014)

Funny, that picture looks like the exact opposite of ghosting. Dirt only on the spaces between the studs. I'd be careful, if this is ghosting or the inverse, these stains will reappear and you could get a call back from them thinking it's bleed-through rather than new stains.


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

chrisn said:


> the :no: was for the binZ :laughing:


oops! ha typo!  I always say it with that z even though I know better.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

ShermanMoore said:


> Funny, that picture looks like the exact opposite of ghosting. Dirt only on the spaces between the studs. I'd be careful, if this is ghosting or the inverse, these stains will reappear and you coulgd get a call back from them thinking it's bleed-through rather than new stains.


Thanks. I really had my doubts about this being smoke stains, but this is what the Ho told me. However, I doubt that I will get a call back. The HO told me that she expected the srltains to come back.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

fortunerestoration said:


> I think BIN is a better choice than Cover Stain when it comes to covering smoke stains from fire place. While reasons are numerous, the biggest advantage with a BIN primer/sealer is that it *1 sticks to all types of surfaces.*
> 
> 
> *2 Plus you can use it on interior and exterior spots both.* It normally dries within *3 45 minutes of use.*
> ...


1* CS does too, except galvinized
2* CS is much better on ext than BIN, so it's much more versatile

3* CS dries in less than an hour too
4* CS is effective on all these various stains

5* Unless there was an actual fire and heavy soot, CS will seal most odors effectively. 

6* BIN is possibly a bit better at sealing some stubborn knots.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

ShermanMoore said:


> Funny, that picture looks like the exact opposite of ghosting. Dirt only on the spaces between the studs. I'd be careful, if this is ghosting or the inverse, these stains will reappear and you could get a call back from them thinking it's bleed-through rather than new stains.


Thanks! I read the article you linked to and decided to put a provision in the contract that the ceiling would not be covered under the warranty, I explained to the HO my reasoning and she was fine with it.


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## kkonyo (Sep 8, 2014)

I've tried Mad Dog Primer. It rocks.water base, stain, rust cover. Dries as a sticky, clear coat. 
Paid $60/gal but worth every penny.



Wysłane z mojego iPhone przez PaintTalk.com


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## Hissing Cobra (Feb 24, 2014)

I would use the Coverstain or Benjamin Moore's Interior Alkyd Oil Primer, followed by one or two coats of latex flat white.. I would stay away from BIN. Bin is great for small areas but on larger areas I've seen it crack open and begin peeling. Something that I would not want to warranty or come back to fix a year or two later.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

kkonyo said:


> I've tried Mad Dog Primer. It rocks.water base, stain, rust cover. Dries as a sticky, clear coat.
> Paid $60/gal but worth every penny.
> 
> 
> ...


I used Mad Dog for the first time this summer on trim of a Shed. The wood that the HO wanted painted was really really weathered. Really should not have been painted, but I used the Mad Dog when I went back tow months later it still looked great. Two months is not a long time, but I was impressed when I put it on stuck like glue. Although the Mad Dog that I used was not a stain blocker. I think that it was the original. Kind of a light blue appearance.


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## kkonyo (Sep 8, 2014)

@Pete the Painter.
I use MDP Deck Fix on decks and I'm realy impressed. 550sq ft deck with one gal. 
You right sith blueish clear coat, but still inmy opinion best primer so far. Expanding is huge plus of MDP.


Wysłane z mojego iPhone przez PaintTalk.com


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

Finished the job on Tuesday. Used Cover Stain. Love the stuff. I could have almost gotten away with not using a ceiling paint on top. If I come across a similar situation I will not hesitate to use it again.


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## PaintEmUp (Sep 24, 2014)

Things to consider.

Bin is the superior product. But cover stain is an industry staple, as it is a damn good product as well.

Bin is shellac based and cover stain is oil based.

Bin is $60+ a gallon cover stain is in the 28 - 35 range.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

PaintEmUp said:


> Things to consider.
> 
> Bin is the superior product. But cover stain is an industry staple, as it is a damn good product as well.
> 
> ...


I get cover stain at Lowes for around 19 per gallon.


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## paintball head (Mar 3, 2012)

My local SW rang up some Cover Stain at 34 per gal. :no: They said how much do you want to pay, I told them the HD price and they did it for that price.


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## Stonehampaintdept (Jan 10, 2013)

PaintEmUp said:


> Things to consider.
> 
> Bin is the superior product. But cover stain is an industry staple, as it is a damn good product as well.
> 
> ...


everyday retail at my store
Bin 42.99 - maybe I need to go way up?
CS 21.99 



paintball head said:


> My local SW rang up some Cover Stain at 34 per gal. :no: They said how much do you want to pay, I told them the HD price and they did it for that price.


:blink: that's an interesting question to ask as a retailer. Maybe they're playing too many price games :whistling2:


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

Stonehampaintdept said:


> everyday retail at my store
> Bin 42.99 - maybe I need to go way up?
> CS 21.99
> 
> :blink: that's an interesting question to ask as a retailer. Maybe they're playing too many price games :whistling2:


I pay $15.75 for cover stain


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

PaintEmUp said:


> Things to consider.
> 
> Bin is the superior product. But cover stain is an industry staple, as it is a damn good product as well.
> 
> ...


I think I paid $24 before tax for a gallon of Cover Stain at an ACE Hardware store. It amazes it me of the differences in prices. I love Zar Ultra Maz High Gloss polyurethane. Special order for about $55 at a local hardware store. Needed a gallon right away, so I could not wait for a special order, and it cost me $70 at a paint store 25 minutes down the road. Visited a friend that lives outside of Albany, NY, and found it at around $50.


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

Just bought a fiver of coverstain today. 73 bucks


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