# ceiling bubbling out



## Joepro0000 (Jul 27, 2009)

Heres the dilemna- I was called in to fix another painter's repaint job in an existing retail store. The ceiling where all painted at one point in time, maybe 5 years back. So the new painters sprayed everything and back-rolled it. Don't think they primed the ceiling. (Paint was in eggshell) They left a horrible mess, runs, over sprays, junk, everything,and where dismissed off the job. So we come in to fix the other painters recent problems. We sanded the ceiling and started touching it up with mud. We primed everything first, then painting all the patches. After all was dry, we started to paint the entire ceiling, and thats when we notices that areas were bubbling up. (and not from the areas we mudded and primed. from areas we didn't touch) We would peal the bubbles out, and it was coming off super easy all the way to the original drywall finish. 

Could this have happened because when the painters originally painting the job 5 years ago, they never primed it?

Or could of this happened because paint the painters that we replaced did not prime the new coat of paint? 

Or maybe the primer shrunk or something like that. Very weird, either way we fixed the problem with 45 min mud and a couple coats of joint compound.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

Its always hard and risky to post a reply without seeing the problem.

It sounds to me that the re-paint (by the guys that screwed it up) was just shot over a dirty and greasey ceiling. That would explain why your "patched" areas, that you mudded and sanded held, while what they did prior, bubbled up. Usually bubbling is caused by the surface you are painting ,is not adhered to the sub-strate. JMO


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## athaire (Sep 11, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Its always hard and risky to post a reply without seeing the problem.
> 
> Usually bubbling is caused by the surface you are painting ,is not adhered to the sub-strate. JMO


True but why would it bubble right back to the " Original Drywall" substrate after all this time if it had held on from the original paint job? I think that was his question.





> and it was coming off super easy all the way to the original drywall finish.


I have encountered similiar issues on wall and ceilings as well with old coating failing after I have prepped and painted one coat of finish. You go to apply the final and it bubbles right back to the raw drywall....grrrr....LOL.


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

sounds like when they actually painted the ceilings that they didn't have them cleaned. Like they actually patched and sanded the patches, or drywall, or whatever then didn't take the time to clean the ceiling, with what ever it was.. dust, dirt, grime.. drywall dust.. (that is my theory) and they painted. Well the paint didn't adhere and then when you went over with another coat.. the original got wet, heavy and started to sag. It has everything to do with what THEY did not do.. and cleaning I think was skipped..


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## NACE (May 16, 2008)

what are the size of the bubbles? Quality paint over cheap paint will dissolve the binder content of the cheap paint and cause bubbles or blisters. I solvent based primer may be needed to prevent water from getting to the surface and act as a barrier or tie coat.


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## ROOMINADAY (Mar 20, 2009)

The only solution I have found that works well for me in these situations is sand, patch, sand and Coverstain. 123 will work, you just have to leave it cure a little longer or a few bubbles can appear again but will usually shrink back. I read an article about a a painter who will not repaint without priming unless he prepped and painted previously!

Why is it always the in final coat around 4PM, just when you are rolling up your drops and looking for payment!


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

This is a problem that some run into frequently with fire/water resto jobs. If the drywaller got there before the existing area was sealed then the whole ceiling would be coated with an oil based primer sealer. Usually always oil primed the repair also, if the existing area was sealed. I usually used Coverstain or a SW equivalent.


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## Joepro0000 (Jul 27, 2009)

The size of the bubbles varied from a quarter size to a size of a frisbee


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Moisture still in the mud maybe?


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

Consider this,,,, Spraying a ceiling (with texture) back when spray had asbestous in it. 

A ceiling could sit for twenty years, fine,, then when someone tried to paint it, or re-spray it, the original spray would peel off in big blisters just as mentioned in the OP.

SO, if the paint is turning loose of the drywall, for whatever reason, you can surmise that the original finish (paint or spray) did not adhere to the drywall.

If your paint is turning loose of the old paint, thats one thing. If its causeing everything to turn loose of the drywall, than thats an entirely differant thing.

Whatever it is, a coat of kilz2 (I know you guys hate it) will seal the ceiling and then you can paint it with whatever you like. 

I don't know alot about paint, but I do a bit about drywall


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

After reading my poat above, (cause I spell so bad) I got to thinking about this one too.

Consider this,,, a ceiling sprayed with textured (old ceiling, containing asbstoes). Time comes to re-do it, so you scrape the ceiling and then re-spray it with paint. Fine. However, later on, you you decide to roll it,,,,,,,

At this point, the ceiling is WET and the original base (asbestoes spray) gets soaked through,,,,,,,,

Bubbles and blisters,,,, no way around it..

I don't know if this is what is occuring to the OP, but heck,,, there ain't nothing good on TV right now,,, okay????


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

I don't understand why you wouldn't just prime and seal everything before painting since you had done some patching anyway. But thats how I do it. If a ceiling ever has issues, previously or if its questionable now, I always prime and seal it first. If there is no staining, I guardz it. If there is some stain, I'll spot prime with a stainblocker and then guardz it. If its real bad with stains and dirt, I'll just coat it all with stainblocker/sealer. Its just not worth the bs the stuff the op was mentioning. Not to mention its going to look better anyway.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

TJ Paint said:


> I don't understand why you wouldn't just prime and seal everything before painting since you had done some patching anyway. But thats how I do it. If a ceiling ever has issues, previously or if its questionable now, I always prime and seal it first. If there is no staining, I guardz it. If there is some stain, I'll spot prime with a stainblocker and then guardz it. If its real bad with stains and dirt, I'll just coat it all with stainblocker/sealer. Its just not worth the bs the stuff the op was mentioning. Not to mention its going to look better anyway.


Thanks for saying in a few words what I tried to say in 2 posts !!!!!!!!! :thumbsup:


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I am still betting there is moisture getting in somehow. I did a house about six years ago and there were a lot of repairs, using 90 minute mud I ran into this issue.

Spot primer went on fine, but when I put on a finish coat it blistered. I found out there was about 2 inches of water under the house and was being pulled inside.


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## NACE (May 16, 2008)

Potential Calcamince? Just a thought.


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## BC_Painter (Feb 14, 2010)

I find this happens on cheaply done jobs all the time.

A recent interior job I did had bubbles all over the place, scraped right back to the original drywall, and took some of the drywall with it.

Definitely coverstain the stuff to make sure no more bubbles come up. The few time I mudded and used a latex sealer the bubbles cme back, not as bad, but they were there.

I have this as one of the "unforeseen conditions" that will result in an upcharge if it's more than a minor nuisance. :thumbsup:

I would find all the bubbles, scrape, coverstain THEN patch the areas, spot prime, then go from there.


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## NaeGan (Jun 16, 2010)

There is a lady I have done much work for over the past two years; drywall, painting, etc. She had me paint her porch and trim boards, but wanted to paint the field of the house herself to save money. After 3 moths it was falling off in chunks. Clear down to the cedar. The old lead and all. I did some reading and made some calls. She washed the house. It had been repainted 10 years prior. From what I read, even as thin as paint is, original paint will let loose after enough coats. Kind of like stress fatigue. I'm sure this is nothing new to many of you, but I had never seen paint peel this bad before. I couldn't have eco-stripped it this clean. Absolute bare cedar like it was just hung.


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

TJ Paint said:


> I don't understand why you wouldn't just prime and seal everything before painting since you had done some patching anyway. But thats how I do it. If a ceiling ever has issues, previously or if its questionable now, I always prime and seal it first. If there is no staining, I guardz it. If there is some stain, I'll spot prime with a stainblocker and then guardz it. If its real bad with stains and dirt, I'll just coat it all with stainblocker/sealer. Its just not worth the bs the stuff the op was mentioning. Not to mention its going to look better anyway.


that won't help in the "joint problem". there is a different technique you use to make sure this doesn't happen. There will be a difference with the texture no matter if you paint it or not.. has everything to do with the moisture content and what is going on with it in the texture.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

sounds like the ceiling needs to be ripped out then. I've never ran across a deal like this.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

nEighter said:


> that won't help in the "joint problem". there is a different technique you use to make sure this doesn't happen. There will be a difference with the texture no matter if you paint it or not.. has everything to do with the moisture content and what is going on with it in the texture.


Man, you hurt my feelings,,,,,, I thought you KNEW what your doing.

Are you really saying that you would have them re-sheetrock the ceiling???? 

Whatever you guys think of me, a pro painter SHOULD be able to fix it. Its easy and convient to say "re-place it".

Heck, a hack like me could say that !!!!!!!!!!


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

A dehumidifier for a few days should take care of it as long as it doesn't keep getting wet.


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## MikeIX (May 19, 2012)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Man, you hurt my feelings,,,,,, I thought you KNEW what your doing.
> 
> Are you really saying that you would have them re-sheetrock the ceiling????
> 
> ...


You have to scrape the ceiling not re rock it, at some point moisture got under the texture and when you painted, the paint tightened up and pulled it loose.:thumbsup: Prime it and re texture
then continue.


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## PaintingContractorNJ (May 10, 2012)

Whenever I have old latex paint bubble up, when applying fresh latex paint, I stop, repair the bubbles, then apply Zilz or Coverstain. That usually does the trick!


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## Builtmany (Dec 5, 2009)

PaintingContractorNJ said:


> Zilz



:001_unsure: ???


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Kilz, lol...


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

Zilz...........Zero VOC Kilz?........coming to a big box store near you?....


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## Finn (Dec 18, 2011)

Peel a bond? I just bought a gallon and am gonna use it on a garage door


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Gwarel said:


> Zilz...........Zero VOC Kilz?........coming to a big box store near you?....


 
is that not Russian for Kilz?


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## PaintingContractorNJ (May 10, 2012)

Builtmany said:


> :001_unsure: ???


Typo dude!
*Kilz* :sailor:


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## Builtmany (Dec 5, 2009)

PaintingContractorNJ said:


> Typo dude!
> *Kilz* :sailor:


Understood but the last time I looked the "k" and the "z" are at opposite ends of a keyboard.


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## PaintingContractorNJ (May 10, 2012)

Builtmany said:


> Understood but the last time I looked the "k" and the "z" are at opposite ends of a keyboard.


Its amazing what a few beers will do to ya! haha


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

drunk painters talking about kills2, that sounds just about right.


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## PaintingContractorNJ (May 10, 2012)

TJ Paint said:


> drunk painters talking about kills2, that sounds just about right.


Hey, its was Saturday night!

BTW - if you look at my typing skills on my post, you will see that I was not drunk! lol


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## Mr. Milola (Jun 21, 2012)

Tap the Rockies--Kilz 2 !! the Coors light of coatings :jester:


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