# Calcimine Ceiling!



## dubinpainting (Feb 16, 2010)

http://mahousepainting.blogspot.com/2010/11/calcimine-ceiling.html
:thumbsup:


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

dubinpainting said:


> http://mahousepainting.blogspot.com/2010/11/calcimine-ceiling.html
> :thumbsup:


Are you D&D?


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## Roadog (Apr 18, 2007)

Just for anyone who wants to know....Gardz painted over calcimine Will lock it down and can be successfully painted over.


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## dubinpainting (Feb 16, 2010)

jack pauhl said:


> Are you D&D?


 Yea I am but I 'm trying to change to Proctor and Companies. I still put D&D on mostly everything


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

dubinpainting said:


> Yea I am but I 'm trying to change to Proctor and Companies. I still put D&D on mostly everything


Cool. I like that blog you have. I'll log in later to blogger and follow you, follow back.


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## dubinpainting (Feb 16, 2010)

Roadog said:


> Just for anyone who wants to know....Gardz painted over calcimine Will lock it down and can be successfully painted over.


 Thats corect you can look the calcimine onto the surface by sealing it with a calcamine-coater or an OIL based primer. Both approaches have advantages depending on the particular situation. I guess it depends on weather or not your trying to cover up the problem or completely get rid of it, and how smooth you want your finished ceiling to be. Also of course how much the H.O is willing to pay.....


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Roadog said:


> Just for anyone who wants to know....Gardz painted over calcimine Will lock it down and can be successfully painted over.


Have you actually tested that? Or are you believing what the Big Z hype says ? I'm not trying to be rude, because I would really like to believe there is a product that can go right over calcime. 

We in New England have lots of experience with calcimine. In my experience, not one cal-coter ever worked 100%, and Gardz (or the original, Draw-tite) is a waterborne. Until someone shows me a ceiling with Gardz over calcimine and then painted - for three years minimum, I will advise wash, wash, wash, wash and THEN a cal-coter. 

BTW, Dubin, try just cold water. Don't bother with the TSP. Calcine is a lime product, it is basically water soluble.


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## Roadog (Apr 18, 2007)

Correct. I use the Gardz for my own peace of mind, no matter if its a cover up and skimmed or totally cleaned, it insures no areas of possible failure for the future.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

dubinpainting said:


> Also of course how much the H.O is willing to pay.....


My final solution to calcimine? Overlay with 3/8 sheetrock. It IS cheaper and guaranteed not to peel.


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## Roadog (Apr 18, 2007)

Yes, have done it and still do. In my home, there is a section from the old farm house, (we rebuilt 6 years ago) a ceiling in a stairway (in CT.) that is going on 6 years now and looks as good as when I painted it. It was a calcimine paint with all the usual issues. I live in New England and have done this from Ct. to Maine without one failure. I've used both Draw tite and Gardz. Usually Gardz cause I can get it easier.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

Is anyone familiar with a product called Final Sealer? I worked with an old timer that used to use it to seal calcimine, milk paint and other ceiling issues in older NE homes. He would buy cases of the stuff for friends when it was not available in Maine. Last I heard(4 years ago) it was available in Mass. It was really nasty as I remember, but effective for sure.


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## clammer (Feb 13, 2009)

If it's in good condition we use Benjamine moore super spec alkyd calcimine recoater 306 If it's bad we just rock over with 3/8


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Roadog said:


> Yes, have done it and still do. In my home, there is a section from the old farm house, (we rebuilt 6 years ago) a ceiling in a stairway (in CT.) that is going on 6 years now and looks as good as when I painted it. It was a calcimine paint with all the usual issues. I live in New England and have done this from Ct. to Maine without one failure. I've used both Draw tite and Gardz. Usually Gardz cause I can get it easier.


OK, I now have heard it from someone who I respect.

Thanks. 

(You think I was going to trust the likes of Jack Ford or other Z reps? :no: )

BTW, do you feel D-T worked better than the copy cat, Gardz? Or were they about the same? Also, was it D-T original or no-run ?

AND, where can you get D-T in New England ? They have no interest in setting up a reliable distribution network.


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## dubinpainting (Feb 16, 2010)

clammer said:


> If it's in good condition we use Benjamine moore super spec alkyd calcimine recoater 306 If it's bad we just rock over with 3/8


We found more ceilings like in the whole house. The HO wants us to sheet rock over all of them. Whats the best way to do this? Should I use mesh or paper tape on the seems? How do I mark the studs on the new pice of sheet rock? I can replace sheet rock but I have never done a ceiling before......Any tips or methods on how to do this with out F....ing it up? I know to use paper tape on the corners but what about in the seems where the two pices meet?


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## bucket (Sep 1, 2010)

*Drywalling ceiling*

What is the existing ceiling? Plaster I would assume, if the existing ceiling is in good condition and fastened tight to ceiling joists the your next steps are the same as on walls.
Determine existing ceiling thickness to find out what length of fastener you will need. I recommend at least an 1/2" penetration into the ceiling joist. Next you will need to find the layout of the ceiling joists ie, 16" on center, once found with a pencil mark on the walls the joist locations. Simply apply drywall over existing ceiling and screw at your marks.
Tape or mesh? Wow that can of worms is as big as bucket vs tray,lol.
If you mesh be sure to bed coat with dura-bond with a top coat of you favorite joint compound. Advantage is quicker dry time ( dura-bond actually sets not dry's) over joint compound.
 Paper tape is my preferred system in NC and large remodels but when time is of the essence then quick set is the product of the day.
Either way walls and ceiling are both finished the same ie, joints are full, flush, feathered.
Well enough rambling for my second post,lol.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Where's the captain when we need him?

If he doesn't log onto this thread and tell you how do do it correctly, I'm going to be forced to tell you how I've overlayed ceilings. (And I ain't done enough to be an expert)


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## Slingah (Sep 24, 2007)

dubinpainting said:


> We found more ceilings like in the whole house. The HO wants us to sheet rock over all of them. Whats the best way to do this? Should I use mesh or paper tape on the seems? How do I mark the studs on the new pice of sheet rock? I can replace sheet rock but I have never done a ceiling before......Any tips or methods on how to do this with out F....ing it up? I know to use paper tape on the corners but what about in the seems where the two pices meet?


blueboard and plaster....sub it out to a pro...make a couple bucks on it and do the painting


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

no wonder why the illegals are taking over the drywall industry.


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## dubinpainting (Feb 16, 2010)

Slingah said:


> blueboard and plaster....sub it out to a pro...make a couple bucks on it and do the painting


Thanks....but I would rather do it myself.


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## dubinpainting (Feb 16, 2010)

high fibre said:


> no wonder why the illegals are taking over the drywall industry.


Thanks for the sarcasm thats real productive.....:no:


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## Roadog (Apr 18, 2007)

In all honesty I hate when HO cover up with drywall. The gypsum sucks compared to the old lime. I would talk them into locking in the calcimine (chalk and hide glue) then skim coat if they want a smoother ceiling. Its faster and less expensive and less to go wrong. Prime and paint. If theres chunks missing or cracks, clean them out and use Durabond setting compound. For skimming I use the durabond Lightweight setting compound for ease of sanding. Hit it with the 360 sander on a pole......botta bing!


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Perhaps a real viable alternative to calcimine, is to reapply some. Calcimine is quite an amazing product as long as it is not painted over. It is a lime product so it actually "heals" cracks in the old lime. It fills pits, dings, and cracks. It's real easy to apply, economical, and dries dead flat and level. No VOC's or nasty fumes. It's organic - lime, glue, and water. It's tintable too. 

And if it starts looking dirty, go over it with a damp sponge mop. 

IMO, calcimine only became a problem when people started painting over it. Perhaps returning to the old fashion way would be beneficial for many reasons.


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## Roadog (Apr 18, 2007)

I restored a church in Burlington VT that was calcimine/decorative paint. Really hard to color match. 
It was intended to be painted on fresh plaster as paint in those days would not adhere to the plaster, then washed off a year later or when the plaster was cured, and then painted. Can be bought at Johnson Paint in Boston. The Dutch Kalcimine comes in powder form. Best tinted with mineral powders. I like it myself and is very earth friendly. I dont think they use hide glue anymore but casien instead. Have to look that up.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Yes, I'm glad you now your history ( you are obviously another old goat  )

And for those that do not know, calcimine was put on uncured plaster back in the day. As we all know, uncured plaster would reject paint, especially the oil paints of that era. The old three coat lime plaster jobs could take a year before the pH was low enough to accept paint. So, they applied calcimine as a quick decorative finish that the new plaster would accept. 

And yes, Johnson does carry a "modern" powdered version. DAMN, I'm working about 3/4 of a mile from the store, I should make time to visit . . . for old times sake. I do love walking the Back Bay - - but that's a different subject.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

daArch said:


> I do love walking the Back Bay - - but that's a different subject.


:blink:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

TJ Paint said:


> :blink:


the Back Bay is one of the prettiest, most interesting, and wealthiest sections of Boston. I could (and have) strolled around for hours just looking at the architecture, trees, statues, and people. I love it.


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## dubinpainting (Feb 16, 2010)

daArch I just saw your website......Do you still work at that store in Wellesley?


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

dubinpainting said:


> Thanks for the sarcasm thats real productive.....:no:


 
when painters cant or wont hang some drywall, and sub it out to a "pro",,,,i can really see why illegals are taking over the drywall industry.

whats sarcastic about that?


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

dubinpainting said:


> daArch I just saw your website......Do you still work at that store in Wellesley?


No. It closed. 

You know Swellesley? If so, here's a quick run down.

It was just before the 135 and 16 split. Up in the square. It was not C&T. Alan Orth (of Weston) owned it. Sold California and Touraine. He also had a painting company (it has also folded). It was next to White Mountain Creamery. I think there was a pizza place after Alan closed the store. 

You work Wellesley much? I love it.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

dubinpainting said:


> We found more ceilings like in the whole house. The HO wants us to sheet rock over all of them. Whats the best way to do this? Should I use mesh or paper tape on the seems? How do I mark the studs on the new pice of sheet rock? I can replace sheet rock but I have never done a ceiling before......Any tips or methods on how to do this with out F....ing it up? I know to use paper tape on the corners but what about in the seems where the two pices meet?


If the cielings are "slick", 3/8 rock is fine,,, however it comes in 8' only, 1/2 comes in 12' (less butt joints depending on the ceiling size). If the ceilings are "textured" spray or stomp, 1/2" would be your best bet. 

If you are going to re-paint the walls, find the ceiling studs, and then mark the wall with a pencil. If your not gonna repaint the walls, you will still have to add crown moulding, so you can still mark the walls, just don't mark em down as far, lol. That will locate your rafters for you. Find them by driveing a nail into the old ceiling. Use screws, 2" if your going over plaster, and/or 1 5/8 if your going over drywall, check it out and see what length you need. After you have em marked on both sides of the wall, use a chalk box to snap em on the ceiling. You can use your battery drill, just buy a "bell tip" and a "replacement shaft for a screw gun(a 3" extention)". It will release when the screw is set. 

You can use mesh on the flats (bevels), and many use it on the butts, I do not. The thing here is that you are hanging rock over an old ceiling, so you have all the backing you need, so "movement" is not an issue here, use the tape your comfortable using. Truth be know, since you are hanging it over an existing ceiling, you can skip the tape completely (cept or the corners, unless your gonna add crown, and you can skip that also).
Use all purpose mud to tape, if you tape, but then use light-weight to bed and skim with,,, trust me,, as a painter, your gonna LOVE how easy light-wieght is to sand,,, just don't try to stick tape with it!!!!! I'm not kidding,,,, don't do it man !!!

Don't know if this helps in anyway, but if you have any questions,,, just PM me, or post it, and I'll try to help ya out.


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## Slingah (Sep 24, 2007)

Slingah said:


> blueboard and plaster....sub it out to a pro...make a couple bucks on it and do the painting





high fibre said:


> when painters cant or wont hang some drywall, and sub it out to a "pro",,,,i can really see why illegals are taking over the drywall industry.
> 
> whats sarcastic about that?


around my parts real veneer plaster is it's own trade... painters do not do blue-board and plaster.....common ceiling re-do here is not sheetrock / compound...it is veneer plaster....
probably a lot of illegals taking it over here too...most whiteys no likey to work too hard


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## VictoriaLineberger (Dec 15, 2020)

daArch said:


> Have you actually tested that? Or are you believing what the Big Z hype says ? I'm not trying to be rude, because I would really like to believe there is a product that can go right over calcime.
> 
> We in New England have lots of experience with calcimine. In my experience, not one cal-coter ever worked 100%, and Gardz (or the original, Draw-tite) is a waterborne. Until someone shows me a ceiling with Gardz over calcimine and then painted - for three years minimum, I will advise wash, wash, wash, wash and THEN a cal-coter.
> 
> BTW, Dubin, try just cold water. Don't bother with the TSP. Calcine is a lime product, it is basically water soluble.


Is it possible calcimine was used mixed in with the plaster? Can you skim coat new plaster after cleaning calcimine off?


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