# Best HVLP



## Tonyg (Dec 9, 2007)

Trying to plan my next purchase and have decided on the HVLP. Currently use the airless for cabinets, built ins, etc. but have been migrating more towards a fine finish application. 

I'm not so worried about production so I want the best quality sprayer/product to spray a fine finish. I've never used FPOR (not local anymore) and other than industrial lacquer 25 years ago, none for a cabinets or fine finish. I would actually like to order in the FPOE and use a custom cabinet grade lacquer for a fine finish application. 

Any suggestions on brand or HVLP product that I could invest in for a fine finish process?


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

For what it's worth, I would not go to an HVLP for fine finish work IF your plan is to use it for spraying water based products. If I had it to do over again I'd go to an air assist unit. JMHO.


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## Tonyg (Dec 9, 2007)

RH said:


> For what it's worth, I would not go to an HVLP for fine finish work IF your plan is to use it for spraying water based products. If I had it to do over again I'd go to an air assist unit. JMHO.


I would definitely like the option and versatility of using it for alkyd/lacquer and waterborne.

Any particular brands/products that would be on your wish list?


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

I have a four stage Fuji and like it for certain jobs. Not sure if they make a six stage but that is what I would get if going the HVLP route again.


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## DynaPLLC (Oct 25, 2013)

One of the guys I know has purchased a 5 stage Apollo turbine. It's OK, but for large surfaces, water based products, tinted lacquers, he wishes he had an air assist. 
I've got a graco Merkur air assist, it produces great finishes. But I wouldn't mind an HVLP for spraying small stuff that ain't worth getting the air assist dirty.

Plus , in and out of the cabinet boxes with a cup to drag after you is possibly annoying, and impossible to spray upside down. Air assist guns are small, swivel , etc...for cabinets I'd get an air assisted rig.


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

I own a titan 105 and spray cabinets and small jobs. When its clean and running right its great cant spray upside down or to far side ways for that matter. They usually take a fair amount of reducing for whatever your spraying as they spit pretty much everything except bin at full strength. I would go all air assisted if there was a good waterbourne primer for tannins that sanded well. If you get an hvlp get a 6 stage better to have and not need then need and not have. My titan has been good to me.


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## Boco (May 18, 2013)

How much are the finish pro aaa 395s going for? There is a brand new in box for 2k near me (Plattsburgh).http://plattsburgh.craigslist.org/tls/5447253560.html


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

I've had a Capspray 9100 (4 stage) for years now and as others have said it's great for just a few cab doors or something you don't want to break out the airless for. I can't imagine trying to paint the inside of cabinets with a cup gun or even the inside of drawer boxes. 

I cut my teeth on airless nearly 40 years ago, so that's my mainstay for cabinets. And with the advent of the FF tips, achieving a slick finish is easier than ever before. But with all of the residential paints moving to water-borne and with the new formulations of paint, getting an oil-like slick finish on cabinets is getting more challenging. 

All that said, I think I would check into AAA rather than HVLP for doing whole cabinet jobs. HVLP has it's place, but I wouldn't want to do a complete kitchen with one.


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## Tonyg (Dec 9, 2007)

Yep, I think the AAA sounds like the way to go. 

What would be the AAA you would like to have if you would buy one today?


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

Boco said:


> How much are the finish pro aaa 395s going for? There is a brand new in box for 2k near me (Plattsburgh).http://plattsburgh.craigslist.org/tls/5447253560.html


I'll sell you mine for $1,500 with goodies attached. Lol


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Tonyg said:


> Yep, I think the AAA sounds like the way to go.
> 
> What would be the AAA you would like to have if you would buy one today?


Wish I could help, but I've never pulled the trigger on a AAA. Literally or figuratively, LOL.


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

Tonyg said:


> Yep, I think the AAA sounds like the way to go.
> 
> What would be the AAA you would like to have if you would buy one today?


I have both AAA and hvlp. Multiple units actually.

They all work great in their own realms. 

If you plan on painting a lot, AAA for the win. If you plan on stains and clears, hvlp. 

AAA will spray clears and stains and all that, don't get me wrong. But the hvlp can put out a finer spray, more control, and you can do things with it the other one just can't do.

Not sure what you plan to do or already do for work, but honestly a AAA is much better. 

Why?
Because you get 2 units for the price of one. You get a good finishing machine and you also get an airless sprayer rig. Useful for spraying paint on drywall, jet roller setup, etc. etc. etc.

Which one?
Bigger if you can. Budget dependant of course, but 595 aaa graco would be my recommendation. Need an entry unit then 395 aaa graco. 

The new units have some nice features and the hosed being better protected including the air compressor shutting off after a couple of seconds instead of running continously.

I have both a 395 and 595 and I'd pay all day long for the 595.

Example: Used the 595 aaa yesterday and will be doing it again tomorrow to spray paint in a rental home. 2200 psi and a 623 tip, no problemo. Works like a charm (just switch hose and gun out). 

Then if I wanted to spray cabinets, I just put on the usual hose (double bonded) flip the switch to air assist and I'm off and running on cabinets.


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## Boco (May 18, 2013)

woodcoyote said:


> I'll sell you mine for $1,500 with goodies attached. Lol


 I already sold mine as well as my hvlp. . I prefer my gravity fed and a compressor for clears and FF airless tips for latex.


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## PremierPaintingMa (Nov 30, 2014)

I have 3 Graco AAA two 395 and just got new 595 will pickup on Friday, love them all I use them on almost every job, can't go wrong with the AAA.


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## Phinnster (Feb 20, 2013)

Premier 
Where is most of your work 
Would love to see it in person 
Looks like your running a great show


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## Tonyg (Dec 9, 2007)

Primarily for the occasional kitchen project, built ins, etc. would a 5 stage hvlp be able to handle waterbornes (Breakthrough, Advance, etc.)?


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## DynaPLLC (Oct 25, 2013)

Tonyg said:


> Primarily for the occasional kitchen project, built ins, etc. would a 5 stage hvlp be able to handle waterbornes (Breakthrough, Advance, etc.)?


Yes I think you would be ok spraying Breakthrough since it's like water, but anything else would require serious thinning.
I'd get a 6 stage , longer hose than 25ft and sit the unit outside to draw cold air. 
That hot air from the turbine isn't good for any fast drying paint or lacquers for that matter.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

I've sprayed Breakthrough and Advance with my 4 stage. I have to thin more than I like to get it to atomize properly


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## Tonyg (Dec 9, 2007)

Thanks for the input! 

I hadn't taken the heat from the turbine into acct and I don't want to get ham strung by being to limited to certain products or having to thin it more than spec'd. The cup would b a little hindering as well.

Ok, so I have no need for another airless, albeit the aaa would be more versatile. Anything I need production for I can uses my 595. Would a small Graco 295 AAA be too much like a homeowner unit or should the 395 AAA be a better option for limited use?


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## DynaPLLC (Oct 25, 2013)

In my opinion, a 395 AAA would be good. But again, I think you'd have to get longer hoses and keep the pump out of the room , even outside because all the overspray will get sucked into the compressor's intake.

Another thing I didn't like about it is that the compressor runs constantly when spraying . Not sure what that motor is rated for but if spraying continuously it may overheat.

If you are serious about getting a dedicated AAA, I'd either get a 30:1 Graco Merkur, or 30:1 Kremlin EOS. 

I almost bought the Kremlin, but the local shop that actually carry both the Kremlin and Merkur told me to get the Merkur. Apparently it doesn't have as many problems as the Kremlin which they said they repair on a regular basis.

I suspect Merkur parts are easier to find too.

A cabinet shop I sometimes do jobs for has purchased 4 new Merkur's. The finishing guys and the owner could not be happier. 

You do need to buy a compressor though but who doesn't need one around the house anyway?


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## PremierPaintingMa (Nov 30, 2014)

Phinnster said:


> Premier
> Where is most of your work
> Would love to see it in person
> Looks like your running a great show


Phinnster, thanks for compliment. 
I am 15 to 20 minutes from Boston Mass, most of my work is in high end residential and I do a lot of painting for a custom made cabinet shop.


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## Tonyg (Dec 9, 2007)

Thanks for the help. I sent this to my rep to get some info and pricing. May wait until fall but I think this one will be the direction I go 

Graco Merkur ES 24F155

http://www.graco.com/us/en/products/finishing/merkur-es-spray-packages.html


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## DynaPLLC (Oct 25, 2013)

Make sure the ES is all stainless steel . There's 2 versions of ES; one is not suitable for lacquers and other hot solvents. 
All the other Merkur's are stainless steel.
Oh and make sure it's a 30:1 ratio. A 15:1 will have a hard time spraying water base paint.

I was able to get my pump discounted 1200$ from the retail price..they paid freight and tax...negotiate hard with your rep. Good luck!


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## DynaPLLC (Oct 25, 2013)

Tonyg said:


> Thanks for the help. I sent this to my rep to get some info and pricing. May wait until fall but I think this one will be the direction I go
> 
> Graco Merkur ES 24F155
> 
> http://www.graco.com/us/en/products/finishing/merkur-es-spray-packages.html


The model you listed is an airless with a silver plus gun and plated steel instead of SS. 
I believe you want an air assisted one right? With a G40 gun ...and SS.


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## Tonyg (Dec 9, 2007)

DynaPLLC said:


> The model you listed is an airless with a silver plus gun and plated steel instead of SS.
> I believe you want an air assisted one right? With a G40 gun ...and SS.




Yes, looking to the Graco site I must've missed the assisted only.

http://www.graco.com/us/en/products.../air-assisted-airless-pneumatic-sprayers.html


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## HollisPainting (Oct 15, 2013)

I have the Graco 4 stage turbine (Finish pro 9.0) and the Edge gun it comes with. 
It will spray waterborne material given a large enough tip. 
Heat is a real problem though. Not just heating up the material but if the ambient temperature is over about 85°
It will trip its breaker and shut off after about 15-20 minutes. Not sure what I'll do this summer.

Anyone else have this issue?


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

HollisPainting said:


> I have the Graco 4 stage turbine (Finish pro 9.0) and the Edge gun it comes with.
> It will spray waterborne material given a large enough tip.
> Heat is a real problem though. Not just heating up the material but if the ambient temperature is over about 85°
> It will trip its breaker and shut off after about 15-20 minutes. Not sure what I'll do this summer.
> ...


I'd talk to them if it's still under warranty. Or talk to your graco rep. He/she might be able to help you out. It shouldn't trip.


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## Bobmatko (Jun 11, 2015)

I was in the market for one last year. Ended up with an Apollo power 5 after much research. Powerful unit, great gun adjustment, made in USA. Don't know how many of those may be a priority to you though. Not sure what paints you want to spray, but I can get dunn-edwards aristoshield to go through without diluting. High setting and a 2.5 needle make easy work of trim and doors. No worries about airless overspray all over the room also helps.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I really haven't had much experience with a turbine conventional cup gun. What is it about them that allows waterborne paints to be applied without the dreaded flashing that can occur with other conventional set ups?

I even find that PPG Pitt Tech Plus WB, will flash with a AAA on large flat metal surfaces, where it is impossible to keep a wet edge because of wind, higher temps, and distance from the next opportunity to overlap. 

And even though I race to start early in the morning to beat the higher temps of the sun and winds, I then have to contend with PPG's notoriety for running on cooler surfaces.


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

CApainter said:


> I really haven't had much experience with a turbine conventional cup gun. What is it about them that allows waterborne paints to be applied without the dreaded flashing that can occur with other conventional set ups?
> 
> I even find that PPG Pitt Tech Plus WB, will flash with a AAA on large flat metal surfaces, where it is impossible to keep a wet edge because of wind, higher temps, and distance from the next opportunity to overlap.
> 
> And even though I race to start early in the morning to beat the higher temps of the sun and winds, I then have to contend with PPG's notoriety for running on cooler surfaces.


What size tip are you using and what pressure setting?


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## hammerhead (Feb 18, 2014)

not to derail this thread but what machine would you guys use to refinish tubs and counter tops? We are getting alot of interest in this and we are thinking of expanding into this area. mostly for winter work


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

woodcoyote said:


> What size tip are you using and what pressure setting?


As far as the AAA, I feel even the 30 psi maximum air pressure is not enough. I was experimenting with all kinds of tips when trying to spray the PPG PTP. What I ended up doing to give me the best results, in terms of WFT and control, was a 410, or 411 FF with no air. The pump pressure was probably around 1,000 psi I'm guessing.


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