# Cabot Stain question



## jodon (Jan 27, 2008)

I've had it with Cabots Stains, I've been using them for 20+ years as a house painter. I stained my deck every 2 years for the past 7 years and now I can't get my color, Valspar bought them out last year or so and now my color is HISTORY.

The old color was Beechwood Grey Solid decking stain and it was like a beigh color. Does anyone here any info on this or maybe a formula to use to get that color again? 
Thank You if you can help..
Joe


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Well things do change sometimes, but Cabot is good stuff.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Jo

It may not be available as a ready mix color but I would be very surprised if your supplier didnt still have the formula and a base to make it in.


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## brushmonkey (Jan 4, 2010)

Great Avatar Vermont! :laughing:


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## i painter (Mar 14, 2010)

One of the Cabot retailers here custom tints stains. I'm sure you could have it color matched somewhere. Haven't had any failures although Cabot frowns upon doing this. You may have to forgo the products guarantee for the desired color. Have you talked to a rep to see if the color remains under a different name. 

Btw, nice sig.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Match it in BM Arborcoat.......problem solved


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> Match it in BM Arborcoat.......problem solved


It depends on what he is putting it on. Come on NC - you know BM is still testing this product as we speak. Plus who really wants to apply a clear over the stain?


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## Wolverine (Apr 17, 2007)

> but Cabot is good stuff.


... 'the ol' gray mare she ain't what she used to be... aint what she used to be... aint what she used to be... the old gray mare she aint what she used to be... many long yeeearrrrsss ago...


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

So when is Wolvie going to branch out into deck sealers?

I never do solid color decks if I can help it (as in if it is not already on it, I will not do it).

One thing I do not like about Cabot's non-solid deck sealers is that they are semi-solid. They seem to have enough solid content that they give enough of a film that it can peel a little bit.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

NEPS.US said:


> It depends on what he is putting it on. Come on NC - you know BM is still testing this product as we speak. Plus who really wants to apply a clear over the stain?


Clear is optional not a requirement :thumbsup: Just depends on the look you want. Im trying the Semi-solid on my brother in laws front porch and back deck ( pretty beat up almost needs replacing )


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## Wolverine (Apr 17, 2007)

DeanV said:


> So when is Wolvie going to branch out into deck sealers?
> 
> I never do solid color decks if I can help it (as in if it is not already on it, I will not do it).
> 
> One thing I do not like about Cabot's non-solid deck sealers is that they are semi-solid. They seem to have enough solid content that they give enough of a film that it can peel a little bit.


We'll be in it once we buy Sherwin Williams. I don't think that the deal is going to go through until after we close on Wal-Mart though. lol..


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

jodon said:


> I've had it with Cabots Stains, I've been using them for 20+ years as a house painter. I stained my deck every 2 years for the past 7 years and now I can't get my color, Valspar bought them out last year or so and now my color is HISTORY.
> 
> The old color was Beechwood Grey Solid decking stain and it was like a beigh color. Does anyone here any info on this or maybe a formula to use to get that color again?
> Thank You if you can help..
> Joe


Come on! Cabot stains make the best oil stains in the business, PERIOD!!!! Besides, take it to a good paint store, to somebody who KNOWS how to do a custom eye stain match, like me!!!!! But, I'd strip the deck, and redo it in a semi solid deck stain. It'll just faed instead of craking, and possibly peeling.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

hammerheart14 said:


> I'd strip the deck, and redo it in a semi solid deck stain. It'll just faed instead of craking, and possibly peeling.


If you spend the time stripping it....use a Semi-Transparent stain, or Transparent.

A Semi-Solid Stain can still flake and peel, its less likely than a solid, but It can still happen. ( again, film forming, just less film ) :thumbsup:


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

NCPaint1 said:


> If you spend the time stripping it....use a Semi-Transparent stain, or Transparent.
> 
> A Semi-Solid Stain can still flake and peel, its less likely than a solid, but It can still happen. ( again, film forming, just less film ) :thumbsup:


Once again man, if it's over applied, it can peel like every other stain. but it's a one coat product, that will last longer than a semi transparent stain. You only give what the wood can take. Trust me, I have been selling the cabot semi solid decking stain (1400 series) since 1998. Also, it depends on whether the customer wants to see more wood grain or less. It's an issue of cosmetics (transparent) vs longevity (semi-solid).


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

hammerheart14 said:


> Come on! Cabot stains make the best oil stains in the business, PERIOD!!!! Besides, take it to a good paint store, to somebody who KNOWS how to do a custom eye stain match, like me!!!!! But, I'd strip the deck, and redo it in a semi solid deck stain. It'll just faed instead of craking, and possibly peeling.


Up until 2 years ago I would have to agree. Now it's garbage.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Chris what is your go to stain?


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## BC_Painter (Feb 14, 2010)

I like sikkens for my semi transparents.

I've been using superstain lately for solids

Up in Canada Eh


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Also SW is good for the price.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Sikkens SRD, Penofin Red Label and I recently just used BM Alkyd Transparent Stain in Natural on a cedar deck and rail that turned out gorgeous.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

For solids I LOVE Woodscapes and Deckscapes. Nothing else compares.


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## brushmonkey (Jan 4, 2010)

The staining contractor on this job was fired for deviating from the product that was in the contract. I dont know what it was but they used Cabot Australian Timber Oil instead & this was the result. Got to agree with NEPS on this one.


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## slickshift (Apr 8, 2007)

jodon said:


> I've had it with Cabots Stains, I've been using them for 20+ years as a house painter.


Me too, been using 20+ and have had it


jodon said:


> ...now I can't get my color, Valspar bought them out last year or so and now my color is HISTORY.


Quality has also gone in the dumpster


jodon said:


> The old color was Beechwood Grey Solid decking stain and it was like a beigh color. Does anyone here any info on this or maybe a formula to use to get that color again?


Your local BM dealer will be able to get the "old" Cabot Beechwood Gray color in most BM deck or siding products


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## slickshift (Apr 8, 2007)

BC_Painter said:


> I like sikkens for my semi transparents.


Sikkens has traditionally been my go-to problem-solving solid
Lately, with the demise of Cabot, their SRD has been my favorite semi-
Regardless, Sikkens has never let me down


BC_Painter said:


> I've been using superstain lately for solids


Superdeck?...Duckback products?
Superdeck/Duckback are new out this way but are proving themselves quite well so far


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## BC_Painter (Feb 14, 2010)

slickshift said:


> Superdeck?...Duckback products?
> Superdeck/Duckback are new out this way but are proving themselves quite well so far


Yeah that's them.

I have been using them with good results so far ( except the typical white covering like garbage in ANY solid stain )

Haven't used them enough to go to a deck years and years later to see how it is yet.

Back in the day in Calgary I used flood, saw some decks years later that still looked great.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

BC_Painter said:


> ( except the typical white covering like garbage in ANY solid stain )
> 
> .


SW A-100 oil, two coats SW Woodscapes solid :thumbsup:


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## BC_Painter (Feb 14, 2010)

NEPS.US said:


> SW A-100 oil, two coats SW Woodscapes solid :thumbsup:


Too bad I've got no SW here....


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## slickshift (Apr 8, 2007)

BC_Painter said:


> Yeah that's them.
> 
> I have been using them with good results so far ( except the typical white covering like garbage in ANY solid stain )
> 
> Haven't used them enough to go to a deck years and years later to see how it is yet.


Same here...sorry...
Does look good so far though huh?


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

I have test cabot ATO natural (550 voc), superdeck natural exotic hardwood stain and sikkens cetol natural 550vcoc all together. Superdeck failed first, the cabot and sikkens failed around the same time afterwards. So you can get a mid thirty range cabot product and have it last just as long as a product that retails in the mid fourty range! When people talk **** about The Australian timber oil line, you gotta ask yourself, were they using the 100voc product, or the better 550voc?


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## BC_Painter (Feb 14, 2010)

slickshift said:


> Same here...sorry...
> Does look good so far though huh?


Usually if it's impossible to get it off of my brushes, it tends to be a good sign with these solids :whistling2:


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

hammerheart14 said:


> I have test cabot ATO natural (550 voc), superdeck natural exotic hardwood stain and sikkens cetol natural 550vcoc all together. Superdeck failed first, the cabot and sikkens failed around the same time afterwards. So you can get a mid thirty range cabot product and have it last just as long as a product that retails in the mid fourty range! When people talk **** about The Australian timber oil line, you gotta ask yourself, were they using the 100voc product, or the better 550voc?


 
The new low VOC's are the problem. 

Are you a Cabot's rep?


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

NEPS.US said:


> The new low VOC's are the problem.
> 
> Are you a Cabot's rep?


No, I have been selling stains since 1997 in a high altitude mountain environment (Big Bear) and we are voc exempt when it comes to oil stains. I have used every major brand in stains, and the high voc cabot products delivered everytime where others have not. I have no alliegence to Cabot whatsoever, they just make the best stains in America, imo.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

hammerheart14 said:


> No, I have been selling stains since 1997 in a high altitude mountain environment (Big Bear) and we are voc exempt when it comes to oil stains. I have used every major brand in stains, and the high voc cabot products delivered everytime where others have not. I have no alliegence to Cabot whatsoever, they just mak ethe best stains in America, imo.


Come down to our altitude and deal with the low voc crap.


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

NEPS.US said:


> Come down to our altitude and deal with the low voc crap.


no thanks!!!! but then again, you guys are below the inversion layer. you have all that smog to protect your stains from the uv rays.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

hammerheart14 said:


> no thanks!!!! but then again, you guys are below the inversion layer. you have all that smog to protect your stains from the uv rays.


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

brushmonkey said:


> The staining contractor on this job was fired for deviating from the product that was in the contract. I dont know what it was but they used Cabot Australian Timber Oil instead & this was the result. Got to agree with NEPS on this one.


this looks more like human error really. somebody didn't prep right or applied the stain unevenly.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

I agree. Is that one of those that J pressure washed last year?


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> Up until 2 years ago I would have to agree. Now it's garbage.


Their oil products suck now. But to be honest I think their latex solid deck stain is a dream product much like Sherwin's deckscapes, which is really Pratt &Lambert Stainshield in a Sherwin labeled can.


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## brushmonkey (Jan 4, 2010)

I think its both. Cabot has slid in the past few years IMO. We got the contract to re-strip & fix this mess with Timber Pro UV Log & Siding Formula as soon as the owner gets done being sick over wasted money.


hammerheart14 said:


> this looks more like human error really. somebody didn't prep right or applied the stain unevenly.


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> For solids I LOVE Woodscapes and Deckscapes. Nothing else compares.


Chris, I have heard horror stories from the SW and MAB stores about the semi trans oils failing in months. Of course that could be bad prep. Are you using the waterbornes or the oils? I've tried the oil and it is lousy. It smells nasty and is gooey. You have to continuously brush it out and it seems easy to over apply and end up with shinies. 

If you guys want to try a great oil check out Armstrong Clark. Nice body, a true penetrating oil and its VOC compliant.


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## BC_Painter (Feb 14, 2010)

PressurePros said:


> Chris, I have heard horror stories from the SW and MAB stores about the semi trans oils failing in months. Of course that could be bad prep. Are you using the waterbornes or the oils? I've tried the oil and it is lousy. It smells nasty and is gooey. You have to continuously brush it out and it seems easy to over apply and end up with shinies.
> 
> If you guys want to try a great oil check out Armstrong Clark. Nice body, a true penetrating oil and its VOC compliant.



There's a name I haven't seen in a while!


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

PressurePros said:


> Chris, I have heard horror stories from the SW and MAB stores about the semi trans oils failing in months. Of course that could be bad prep. Are you using the waterbornes or the oils? I've tried the oil and it is lousy. It smells nasty and is gooey. You have to continuously brush it out and it seems easy to over apply and end up with shinies.
> 
> If you guys want to try a great oil check out Armstrong Clark. Nice body, a true penetrating oil and its VOC compliant.


 
I was refering to Woodscapes Latex Solid Stains. I don't use their oil or semi trans products. 

Nice to see you Ken. I hope the weather has been better for you this spring! :thumbsup:


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## Msargent (Jan 16, 2009)

That clear patchy job looks likem somone left the tint on the bottom of the can and didnt know how to operate a stir paddle or cant apply stain.


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## T200 (Nov 11, 2007)

We applied a white-tinted Cabot semi-transparent stain that faded--lost all tint within about six months, on horizontal surfaces exposed to the sun.

Have used SW DeckScapes (okay), have been lately using Sikkens.


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## slickshift (Apr 8, 2007)

> Their oil products suck now





> Cabot has slid in the past few years IMO


Yes, the Cabot oil products have "slided" in the past few years
Whether it's due to EPA or Valspar buying them out, I don't care
I'm through with Cabot oil products

ProVT is still awesome though


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

slickshift said:


> Yes, the Cabot oil products have "slided" in the past few years
> Whether it's due to EPA or Valspar buying them out, I don't care
> I'm through with Cabot oil products
> 
> ProVT is still awesome though


all oil stains suck if their voc is lowered. it's just not cabot. superdeck, penefin, sikkens.


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## slickshift (Apr 8, 2007)

hammerheart14 said:


> all oil stains suck if their voc is lowered. it's just not cabot. superdeck, penefin, sikkens.


Sikkens uses dryers that are not regulated by the EPA
Though their oil solids had to be taken off the USA market, their semi-'s still dry quite well...almost too well (very short open time)
Seriously, you can't take a ciggie break during application
Reformulated Cabot semi-'s can't dry for crap
I've had properly applied Aussie Timber Oil stay tacky for up to 17 weeks
(admittedly I'm in a horrible area for humidity...but still)
17 minutes vs. 17 weeks
Big difference


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

slickshift said:


> Sikkens uses dryers that are not regulated by the EPA
> Though their oil solids had to be taken off the USA market, their semi-'s still dry quite well...almost too well (very short open time)
> Seriously, you can't take a ciggie break during application
> Reformulated Cabot semi-'s can't dry for crap
> ...


yes, i'm sure lower voc cabot does suck, just like the 100voc superdeck. but what i sell is the 550 voc ATO, and that product is great and I sell over 200 gallons of it in one week. so, if you can get the 550voc, go for it, i promise you you will love it.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

hammerheart14 said:


> all oil stains suck if their voc is lowered. it's just not cabot. superdeck, penefin, sikkens.


Ummmmm, no. Most good companies have anticipated the lowering VOC regulations, and already developed/tested their compliant formulations. I have received 0 complaints on all my Sikkens products.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Bump.....This thread is two years old, so I was curious if you guys still feel the same way about what you posted on these products two years ago? I know I've learned a thing or two. Im really intrested in the Armstrong Clark, but also curious about the Sikkens SRD on decks? As for the Arborcoat? Well, I have done a few decks using it the last two years with at least two failures, so the jury is still out on that one but its not looking good :no:


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

By the way, Im online doing some research and it leads me right back to Paint Talk :thumbup: http://www.consumersearch.com/exterior-paint/sikkens-cetol-srd-semi-transparent-stain


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Woodland said:


> Bump.....This thread is two years old, so I was curious if you guys still feel the same way about what you posted on these products two years ago? I know I've learned a thing or two. Im really intrested in the Armstrong Clark, but also curious about the Sikkens SRD on decks? As for the Arborcoat? Well, I have done a few decks using it the last two years with at least two failures, so the jury is still out on that one but its not looking good :no:


What kind of failure have you experienced with Arborcoat? This is my first year using it so you got me a little worried.


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## TERRY365PAINTER (Jul 26, 2009)

For semi trans stains , TwP Armstrong Clark , bakers grey away . Semi solids and solids arbor coat . I used Cabot for years they probably all fail 
Cause I didn't properly prep like I do today thanks for all the extra work and the happier clients that I have now thanks to paint talk and ken for giving me the proper info , 🎶


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

The two failures I had were peeling. I'm still waiting to get a rep to come out. I'm wondering of its from snow sitting on the deck?


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