# Shave Hook



## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

I'm moving toward scraping and shaving rather than sanding. There is definitely a learning curve. This is the second time I used the shaving tool to remove finish from a 6 panel door. Went better than I expected. I think when perfected this will be an enormous time and money saver. Here is a link to the video. It's rough. No editing software used. Thoughts?


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

How did it work for you?

What is the advantage offered compared to sanding/stripping?

To me it looks meticulous as heck and I'd go insane doing that all day.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

I always do chemical strip on something like that.:thumbsup:


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Not to beat on you epretot, but I just don't have that kind of patience. :no:


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

Sounds like your in the zoo or something.

Pat


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

I was happy with the speed. Also, a card scraper or cabinet scraper would be used for larger areas. They can also be used in tight areas if you have the right one. I'm just easing in.

1. No sand paper purchases (that stuff adds up)
2. One-Three swipe removal all the way down to the wood (ready for stain or finish)
3. Ultra-smooth finish. This is the equivalent of a fine sanding. Eliminates multiple sanding steps


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

I get where you are coming from epretot. I used to know an old Austrian painter that had a block of steel/carbide something or other. The edge was razor sharp and he would use it to shave the paint buildup on the edges of doors etc. The guy showed it to me once and the thing worked great! :yes:


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## wills fresh coat (Nov 17, 2011)

Most pro floor guys always scrape rather then sand


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

wills fresh coat said:


> Most pro floor guys always scrape rather then sand


The corners, not an entire floor.


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> The corners, not an entire floor.


I first got the idea from an employee of mine. His brother refinishes hard wood floors. He told me they scrape the corners and treads between the spindles. I had a demonstration from this 70+ year old guy at rockler woodworking. I was amazed how he removed 3 coats and the stain in a few swipes.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

epretot said:


> I first got the idea from an employee of mine. His brother refinishes hard wood floors. He told me they scrape the corners and treads between the spindles. I had a demonstration from this 70+ year old guy at rockler woodworking. I was amazed how he removed 3 coats and the stain in a few swipes.


I've seen guys do it myself. Pretty cool seeing it in action.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I looked into this once and saw you need to burnish the edge, essentially put a curve on the cutting edge. Figured I would screw that up.


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

DeanV said:


> I looked into this once and saw you need to burnish the edge, essentially put a curve on the cutting edge. Figured I would screw that up.


That is correct. A card scraper requires you to put an edge on it. This can be done any number of ways. Takes a little practice. Can be done very quickly though. I plan to continue practicing and posting videos along the way.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Scraping is very effective, the caveats are having the correct shaped blade, extremely sharp, knowing the correct angle at which to pull, and having both a very firm yet delicate hand. Going astray on with a point can cause some damage. I've scraped down many window muntins in my time.

Some of the newer blades are very hard metal which is good and bad. The good is that they last longer, the bad is that they are harder to sharpen. And there are a lot more shapes available these days. The tools are catching up with the need.

And I always found that one must be proficient at sharpening to use any pull scraper.


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

daArch said:


> Scraping is very effective, the caveats are having the correct shaped blade, extremely sharp, knowing the correct angle at which to pull, and having both a very firm yet delicate hand. Going astray on with a point can cause some damage. I've scraped down many window muntins in my time.
> 
> Some of the newer blades are very hard metal which is good and bad. The good is that they last longer, the bad is that they are harder to sharpen. And there are a lot more shapes available these days. The tools are catching up with the need.
> 
> And I always found that one must be proficient at sharpening to use any pull scraper.


Yes. I'm finding almost no one knows how to use them. That puts me at an enormous disadvantage. I will continue to practice on my own pieces or something I cant destroy. This door was in pretty bad shape at the bottom. The homeowner isn't expecting much. Plus, its not being stained. The clear finish is pretty forgiving.


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## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

That doesnt look like fun


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## scottjr (Jan 14, 2012)

More power to you Epretot. You have to be very patient to pull that off.


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## mpminter (Mar 21, 2011)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> The corners, not an entire floor.


I asked a guy at a flooring supply shop one time how they did floors before the advent of drum sanders. Apparently they used to scrape the entire floor with hand scrapers! Sounds like a rough way to earn a living...


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

scottjr said:


> More power to you Epretot. You have to be very patient to pull that off.


I have to ask..How long would it take most of you to sand or chemical strip a 6 panel door? Perhaps some are using Festool or orbital sanders. I used an orbital on the flats. However, I would not have if I weren't putting clear on it. This door was not being stained.


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## wills fresh coat (Nov 17, 2011)

mpminter said:


> I asked a guy at a flooring supply shop one time how they did floors before the advent of drum sanders. Apparently they used to scrape the entire floor with hand scrapers! Sounds like a rough way to earn a living...


Kinda like brushing entire walls


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

yeah but people didn't have cellphones, tv, internet, or other mind numbing things to take up their time. I bet this type of work was mind numbing enough. Plus, more people used to work projects. Further, what seems to us a really tough enterprise, after the technique is found, exploited and mastered, you'd be surprised how fast you can be.


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## wills fresh coat (Nov 17, 2011)

TJ Paint said:


> yeah but people didn't have cellphones, tv, internet, or other mind numbing things to take up their time. I bet this type of work was mind numbing enough. Plus, more people used to work projects. Further, what seems to us a really tough enterprise, after the technique is found, exploited and mastered, you'd be surprised how fast you can be.


And no pt


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

I've used the various scrapers and cabinet scrapers on various projects. One thing to be aware of is that you may have to still scuff them with sandpaper to "open the grain" a little to accept the stain.


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

Wolfgang said:


> I've used the various scrapers and cabinet scrapers on various projects. One thing to be aware of is that you may have to still scuff them with sandpaper to "open the grain" a little to accept the stain.


Yup.

Bill nailed some valid concerns. You are opening yourself up to lots of 'little' gouges and scrapes using such a small tool on something like that. 

Also, the areas that you have to go perpendicular to the grain you will find it won't work as well as you'll be burring and ripping the grain. 

That's a great skill to learn though.

With the chemicals we have today (I've only used 1850 and Peel Away for stripping....two very different products) you could strip that with much less effort and quicker. 

Then use the shave for fine tuning the corners and curves. 

As Wolf said, you have to sand before re-staining to open the grain and for uniformity.


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

Paint and Hammer said:


> Yup.
> 
> Bill nailed some valid concerns. You are opening yourself up to lots of 'little' gouges and scrapes using such a small tool on something like that.
> 
> ...


This is where the debate begins among painters and fine wood finishers. I was hoping to get this kind of feed back. These are arguments from the guy from Rockler Woodworking.

1. The scraper would never be used perpendicular to the grain. There are various scrapers (shapes and sizes) to get into tight areas. 

2. The sanding is necessary in some places to clean up some areas. However, sanding should not be required prior to painting. 

I am just beginning to use these tools. My resource demonstrated the use of a scraper to remove layers of finish. He immediately stained the surface to the same depth of color as previously stained. He explained that sanding created small clogs in the grain resulting in the stain not being able to penetrate. Please understand, I'm not arguing...just weighing the differences. *IF *I become proficient with the scraping tools...I am certain I can take a door down faster than I can with strippers and sand papers. If I took this door to this guy I believe he could strip one side in 2 hours and it would be completely ready to stain or finish. How fast are your guys? It would take me 4 and probably would wait overnight to stain it. Although I read a thread today about neutralization that would probably keep me from having to do that.

I am also considering other mechanical options like Festool. Does Festool have the attachments to get into the tight areas? Does this result in sanding against the grain?


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Keep in mind the different stains that are on the market, ie: penetrating, wiping, oil, water, or lacquer based, and if it is a soft wood or hard. Each has their own set of circumstances and prep.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

when I worked briefly in a cabinet shop, I wanted to show the owner how much quicker and more accurate a shaver could be to flush the cab floor and the face frame. He was very closed minded and would have none of it. 

remember, as an old shop teacher once asked me, how do you think they smoothed wood before the invention of sand paper ?


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Wolfgang said:


> I've used the various scrapers and cabinet scrapers on various projects. One thing to be aware of is that you may have to still scuff them with sandpaper to "open the grain" a little to accept the stain.


Was wondering about this myself. Seems like the scraping would almost polish the surface and make it glazed in a way.


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## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

daArch said:


> when I worked briefly in a cabinet shop, I wanted to show the owner how much quicker and more accurate a shaver could be to flush the cab floor and the face frame. He was very closed minded and would have none of it.
> 
> remember, as an old shop teacher once asked me, how do you think they smoothed wood before the invention of sand paper ?


Bill-my old man has a custom millwork/cabinet shop with 3 guys..youd be hardpressed to push that on them. Everything gets put through shapers/ planers, hand sanded. that would be considered a hack

when it comes down to stripping for a refinish..he just sends whatever it to a shop setup with vats. Big drums loaded with the nastiest caustic stuff possible. They dunk in to strip. another to neutralize. finish back in shop.


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## briancreary (Oct 12, 2010)

yeah I'm not sure I could do that but if the money is right...anyway: I would worry that it may dig and splinter the ends of that wood? Ever happen to you? Also, to an above post; yes sanding closes wood pores and scraping re-exposes them to accept new stain better. sanding causes some poor results when staining..sometimes.


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## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> The corners, not an entire floor.


you got that right !:thumbsup: I sand and refinish a lot of floors and only scrape the corners. Use a power file for _really_ tight areas.


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