# WTH Garage Door



## ddelaney (Aug 7, 2013)

Did an estimate for exterior trim and garage door. This is garage door. Owner has no clue why it peeled this way. Not sure if he did something and doesn't want to say in fear of the embarrassment. Regardless, I am baffled as to what caused it. If I cannot get it all off with pressure washer, any recommendations to a chemical that can be applied to remove any parts that decide to stick?


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Factory coat failed competely to bond to the metal. We have seen that on galvanized entry doors a lot and some very fancy mailboxes.


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## ddelaney (Aug 7, 2013)

Just wondering what to use to strip it completely


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

I can't imagine any method I would use that would result in being cheaper than replacement. Pressure-washing would be a huge mess and shoot the loose flakes everywhere. You'd still be left with half of the door needing to be completely stripped. Factoring in all that time to completely remove all coatings, then prime, would be more than the cost of buying new. 

Anything short of a complete strip will be a waste of time & money. On a failure like that, some areas may appear to be in tact, but it's all a ticking time-bomb. 

You could always try Peel Away, or some harsh stripper, cover it air-tight in plastic, put on your protective gear & goggles, then stiff brushes to scrub contours, putty knives for the flats, & a million rags.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

New panels would probably be cheaper unless they are upgraded or insulated


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

I think that could be stripped with a heater in 4-8 hours.

Although, I tried that on an elevator door...it didn't work.


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## pvtgloss (May 25, 2015)

How about using a whirly bird nozzle and pressure wash it. I know the bird will eat every bit of it off. There would definitely be clean up. Just a thought.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I would go replacement or heat to strip it down.

I have used a torch for a door that had that problem.

Pull seals of you can before heating it up.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

Peel away like someone mentioned would do it. It would be a day's work. But in two trips.


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## ddelaney (Aug 7, 2013)

pvtgloss said:


> How about using a whirly bird nozzle and pressure wash it. I know the bird will eat every bit of it off. There would definitely be clean up. Just a thought.


Whirly bird nozzle? I have a 4gpm 4000psi pressure washer. I was hoping that would take most of it off


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## pvtgloss (May 25, 2015)

Torch and scrape? The guy has a pressure washer. throw the bird on it and eat it up. Take a 5in1 and scrape the big pieces off just to minimize cleanup and go to town. Your not gonna hurt a galvanized door. Probly wouldn't even have to bear down on it from the way it looks.


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## Painter-Aaron (Jan 17, 2013)

What about smart strip?


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

Yeah I was going to say. Just replace it. At around 1k a door it'll probably be cheaper than the time spent plus product/labor etc.

Edit:
For a 16ft wide x8 ft high door with motor and track installed, here, runs around $1,200 and that includes labor etc. Belt driven, r6 insulated steel door. 

With that kind of price it's better to just scrap it. My opinion *


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## jprefect (Mar 4, 2015)

Be careful with the galvanized, after you get it stripped. I've started an industrial painting gig lately, and these old timers know all sorts of techniques for painting metal. I know that galvanized doesn't get treated like iron or steel. If I remember I'll ask what they prime with, but we use some pretty heavy duty stuff over on the industrial sites. Above and beyond an oil dtm. Might have to take a wire wheel to it after it's stripped.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

jprefect said:


> Be careful with the galvanized, after you get it stripped. I've started an industrial painting gig lately, and these old timers know all sorts of techniques for painting metal. I know that galvanized doesn't get treated like iron or steel. If I remember I'll ask what they prime with, but we use some pretty heavy duty stuff over on the industrial sites. Above and beyond an oil dtm. Might have to take a wire wheel to it after it's stripped.


Usually a cemitisious (Gough will correct the spelling) prmer. Apparently the new acrylics work too, but old dogs and new tricks don't always work well with some aspects of the painting world.

Turbo nozzle that sucker, prime, and paint


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## pvtgloss (May 25, 2015)

journeymanPainter said:


> jprefect said:
> 
> 
> > Be careful with the galvanized, after you get it stripped. I've started an industrial painting gig lately, and these old timers know all sorts of techniques for painting metal. I know that galvanized doesn't get treated like iron or steel. If I remember I'll ask what they prime with, but we use some pretty heavy duty stuff over on the industrial sites. Above and beyond an oil dtm. Might have to take a wire wheel to it after it's stripped.
> ...


definitely power wash with a whirlybird / power nozzle. that way you will also wash any oils that's left on.I've never had galvanized fail on me but I have came back behind people a lot. Mostly handrails.I believe I usually use a DTM primer finish.but its best just to hit your paint rep up. I know a lot of a times I wipe down galvanized with vinegar. don't ask me why we just do it. but I think I mostly do that ductwork. I'm not sure if a garage door is that cheap. But I really don't know. but we do know the a cheap garage door will fail. so I don't think the solution would be to buy another cheap garage door.


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

pvtgloss said:


> definitely power wash with a whirlybird / power nozzle. that way you will also wash any oils that's left on.I've never had galvanized fail on me but I have came back behind people a lot. Mostly handrails.I believe I usually use a DTM primer finish.but its best just to hit your paint rep up. I know a lot of a times I wipe down galvanized with vinegar. don't ask me why we just do it. but I think I mostly do that ductwork. I'm not sure if a garage door is that cheap. But I really don't know. *but we do know the a cheap garage door will fail. so I don't think the solution would be to buy another cheap garage door.*


Options seem to be:

1. Buy another inexpensive door. But is it likely to fail quickly like this one did?
2. Take the time and expense to refinish the door you have. But is it likely you can get your finish to last on this turd door when the factory couldn't?
3. Buy an expensive, high quality new door. But will you be getting paid to install it?


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

So sell whatever will make you the most coin.

And walk from whatever is more trouble than it is worth.


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## jprefect (Mar 4, 2015)

The old timers at work have reached a consensus. These are industrial painters. 

Prep the hell out of it (whire wheel) to get rid of any "white rust" i.e. salts or corosion.
Prime it with GalvaPrep (or similar cimistuous?? primer) which is expensive, but should work. 
Failing that, some latex/acrylic primers will actually work better than oil dtm. 

I would spring for the expensive gallon of specialized primer and go for it. Just my 2c


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## 5 Star (Jan 22, 2014)

I would go for a new door first. Looks like a standard 16' x 7' raise panel door. (I happen to own a door company also.) Like woodcoyote said, around $1200. Second, if saving the door, I would remove paint using a silent heater (infrared type) followed by a chemical wash to get the small stuff. Galvanized metal has to be etched (generally with acid i.e. vinegar) for any applied coating to stick. Galvanization is similar to rust on Cor-ten steel, it forms a protective layer against deterioration. If you salvage the door, use a good quality alkyd DTM and leave it or let it cure and cover with acrylic. I have had problems with acrylic DTM and bleed through. Good luck.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

journeymanPainter said:


> Usually a cemitisious (Gough will correct the spelling) prmer. Apparently the new acrylics work too, but old dogs and new tricks don't always work well with some aspects of the painting world.
> 
> Turbo nozzle that sucker, prime, and paint


"Cementitious", as in "cement", since the old-time oil primers contained Portland cement. 

We found that DTM acrylics outperformed them in situations with wide temperature swings, more than 100F.


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

Gough, I'm trying to get oil out of my repertoire as much as possible, and DTMs are one of the last holdouts.

Glad to hear you've had success, can you share which specific acrylic DTMs you like the best these days?


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

I paint paint said:


> Gough, I'm trying to get oil out of my repertoire as much as possible, and DTMs are one of the last holdouts.
> 
> Glad to hear you've had success, can you share which specific acrylic DTMs you like the best these days?


???

I think we're talking about Direct To Metal acrylics.

PPG Pitt-Tech.


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

Gough said:


> ???
> 
> I think we're talking about Direct To Metal acrylics.
> 
> PPG Pitt-Tech.


Yep. Thank you. Especially since I don't have much bucket time with PPG products, other than Breakthrough.

(The idea I was trying to get across, was that overall I am trying to use as little oil-based paint these days as possible. In the past, the coatings I would apply to bare metal surfaces would be oil-based. But on the resi repaint work I do, I don't find myself applying paint directly to metal surfaces much, so I haven't done any experimenting with DTM acrylics yet. But it is sure to come up eventually and when it does, it would simply be nice to have a recommendation from a trusted source.)


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## ddelaney (Aug 7, 2013)

Well, I got an email today that they decided to go with another company. He did say I was "competitive" in the final price. I'm thinking someone else bid this not knowing what they were getting in to. In a way, I am kinda relieved.


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## Mike2coat (Nov 12, 2013)

jprefect said:


> The old timers at work have reached a consensus. These are industrial painters. Prep the hell out of it (whire wheel) to get rid of any "white rust" i.e. salts or corosion. Prime it with GalvaPrep (or similar cimistuous?? primer) which is expensive, but should work. Failing that, some latex/acrylic primers will actually work better than oil dtm. I would spring for the expensive gallon of specialized primer and go for it. Just my 2c


what about DTM wash primer after removing white rust and salts?


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

ddelaney said:


> Well, I got an email today that they decided to go with another company. He did say I was "competitive" in the final price. I'm thinking someone else bid this not knowing what they were getting in to. In a way, I am kinda relieved.


That is the last thing I want to here from a potential client...really.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

Gough said:


> That is the last thing I want to here from a potential client...really.



Couldn't agree more. Tell me I didn't get it cuz I was too high, couldn't get to it soon enough, etc., but don't tell me I was competitive. I'll rack my brain trying to figure out what the other guy did that I didn't.


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

I try hard not to rack my brain over a lost bid for long. Yes, I will take a quick second look at what I bid and yes, I continually want to learn and improve. But I'm just never going to get the actual reason I didn't get the job.

If I bid a job to a potential first time client, no matter how long our conversation was on the phone, no matter how much rapport I managed to create during a walkthrough, they are still more or less a stranger and who knows what they are thinking ten days later when they respond "Thank you for your bid. While competitive, we decided to go with someone else." I likely won't even know who the someone else is.

Seems to me professionals, parents and the like are so busy--plus the fact there is such a devaluing of the craft in popular opinion--that people often give a quick glance at a bid's scope of work and go straight to the bottom line. "OMG honey, this guy is high at $1,835. Here is one for $1,775. They all said they would do a lot of prep before painting."

I'm not going to rack my brain over that. There are more thoughtful clients around the corner.


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## jprefect (Mar 4, 2015)

Mike2coat said:


> what about DTM wash primer after removing white rust and salts?


I'll ask the old timers. 
They really seemed to like GalvaPrep, though.


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