# Pro classic



## Danahy (Dec 11, 2008)

A customer (GC) called. Said he wanted me to look at some cabinet doors he had someone else spray for him. Sent me these photos. (Brand new maple shakers)

I said bring me a door and the original product. Turns out it was pro classic semi, a product that I have never used. I've used solvent laq in the past, with WB laq the last couple yrs, and advanced on occasion. Never have I seen a door so soft, rubbery and fragile.. Even finger prints. Is this normal? The doors were sprayed nearly two months ago, but felt as though they were done 5-6 hours ago. 

The problems with the door looked as though there was debris stuck to the surface, followed by wrapped too soon with an automotive paper, and that the holes were drilled out before the door was ready to be handled leaving some marks from I'm guessing bench that the press is attached to. 

I patched, sanded, gently primed and recoated one side of the door. Looks like a million bucks but I can tell it still has that rubbery feels to it - I don't like it. My SW rep drops by the shop with a proclassic hybrid made the same colour and sheen. It sprays even better, looks better but the sheen is noticeably flatter. More like a satin. 

So while I'm waiting for an inspection on my sample I'm wondering if anyone can shed some light on the do's and don'ts of proclassic for me. Will the hybrid version give me a harder, not so fragile finish? How long after spraying with this product can I wrap them up for transport? And be installed. 

Responses are appreciated. 

Ps. Stripping the doors is my last option, but it is an option nonetheless. 

Pps. Customer and the other painter aren't working together any longer so that's not an option.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Ha thats funny. We just used the PC hybrid and the semi gloss looks like eggshell:blink:


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## oldccm (Jan 23, 2013)

Hard to tell in the picture but were the raw doors primed?


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## Danahy (Dec 11, 2008)

oldccm said:


> Hard to tell in the picture but were the raw doors primed?


I can see primer but have no way to find out what it was.


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## Danahy (Dec 11, 2008)

Bender said:


> Ha thats funny. We just used the PC hybrid and the semi gloss looks like eggshell:blink:


Lower sheen (which I generally prefer) but I have to ask what's with the banana smell? Like those Popeye cigarette candies? Secretly I like that smell but is it normal?


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

Yeah PC has a banana smell to it, I don't know why, but its one of the only things that smells good in the paint world lol.

PC is a good choice, but I don't think I would ever paint cabinets and not top-coat for protection. More money? Yeah, but I'm sure a call back would be more costly potentially. Besides it would increase the wash-ability incase of spills, etc. increase scratch resistance/damage resistance, plus chemical resistance (CLR, etc.) 

It won't make it bullet proof...but increasing the protection factor is better than not. I.e. a bullet proof vest won't stop a police officer from getting killed, but it it decreases the chance.

edit:
Spray on WB PC, followed by water-white top coat (WB). That would be my advice on a painted surface that gets a lot of use.


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## Masterpiece (Feb 26, 2008)

Interesting, if it was the standard Pro Classic acrylic latex semi, that's product has always dried quickly and very hard in my experience. However the Acrylic Alkyd does not dry nearly as quickly.

In fact I just tried out the Pro Classic (and PM 200) acrylic alkyd hybrid in a commercial building for the first time. The restroom partition stalls had been painted with oil previously (and not prepped very well) but being in a relatively confined area and a women's restroom, I opted for the hybrid to reduce the odor as much as possible. I too noticed the 'banana taffy' smell and kindof took a liking to it lol.

I had to sand the surfaces with 200grit, cleaned with KK gloss off/cleaner (probably just window cleaner with a $7 tag) and applied the ProClassic hybrid. 

Just a note, ProClassic says 3-4 hour recoat time I believe but wanting to experiment some, I rolled the partitions with a 6" and 9" microfiber cover first (usually cut first), and then after 2 hours I tried cutting the partitions in. Where the brush (wooster firm) hit the edges of the rolled areas, the paint wanted to tear so I had to lay it on very gently and leave it. No more rolling then cutting with it for me. FWIW, the rolled areas were very smooth and dry after 30-40 mins but perhaps the brushing reactivated and sofened the dried/not cured coating.

Jeremy


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## Danahy (Dec 11, 2008)

Masterpiece said:


> Interesting, if it was the standard Pro Classic acrylic latex semi, that's product has always dried quickly and very hard in my experience. However the Acrylic Alkyd does not dry nearly as quickly. In fact I just tried out the Pro Classic (and PM 200) acrylic alkyd hybrid in a commercial building for the first time. The restroom partition stalls had been painted with oil previously (and not prepped very well) but being in a relatively confined area and a women's restroom, I opted for the hybrid to reduce the odor as much as possible. I too noticed the 'banana taffy' smell and kindof took a liking to it lol. I had to sand the surfaces with 200grit, cleaned with KK gloss off/cleaner (probably just window cleaner with a $7 tag) and applied the ProClassic hybrid. Just a note, ProClassic says 3-4 hour recoat time I believe but wanting to experiment some, I rolled the partitions with a 6" and 9" microfiber cover first (usually cut first), and then after 2 hours I tried cutting the partitions in. Where the brush (wooster firm) hit the edges of the rolled areas, the paint wanted to tear so I had to lay it on very gently and leave it. No more rolling then cutting with it for me. FWIW, the rolled areas were very smooth and dry after 30-40 mins but perhaps the brushing reactivated and sofened the dried/not cured coating. Jeremy


Hmm. If proclassic latex semi normally dries quick and hard as you say. I'm wondering if the previous painter used some cheap a$$ thick spongy primer, and may have recoated too soon. I'm applying it nuked down a hair with a number 3 needle through a 6 stage CS. So it's about as even and thin as I can get it.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Danahy said:


> Secretly I like that smell but is it normal?


Well, I'm no doctor...


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## Masterpiece (Feb 26, 2008)

Danahy said:


> Hmm. If proclassic latex semi normally dries quick and hard as you say. I'm wondering if the previous painter used some cheap a$$ thick spongy primer, and may have recoated too soon. I'm applying it nuked down a hair with a number 3 needle through a 6 stage CS. So it's about as even and thin as I can get it.


Yeah in fact some dislike using Pro Classic because of its reputation for drying so quickly.
Just a note, i first used PC soon after it was originally rolled out and applied it on top of sprayed antique white laquer doors. Dried fast and levelled nearly glass smooth with a wooster firm brush. I don't use it often but it's been great so far.
And those partitions and cabinets i used the PC and 200 hybrids on turned out great.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

For a fast drying acrylic paint, PC does level better than many others, it really seems to tighten up and level. I like the finish. I rarely use SW stuff though. 

Off topic- Yesterday I used some ACE semi gloss enamel I had comped- man, it dried super fast and you couldn't even look at it after 2 brush strokes, or it would leave major brush marks.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Just a wild-ass guess but try setting up a fan and see what increased airflow does for curing the door. The old paint that is. 


Sent from my blah blah blah


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## 804 Paint (Jan 31, 2014)

Does anyone know if PC Hybrid can go directly over oil? I would assume so but you know what they say about assumptions…only thing is that I'd be the only asshat!


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

804 Paint said:


> Does anyone know if PC Hybrid can go directly over oil? I would assume so but you know what they say about assumptions…only thing is that I'd be the only asshat!


Make sure it's clean and give it a light sanding and you should be good to go.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Danahy said:


> Lower sheen (which I generally prefer) but I have to ask what's with the banana smell? Like those Popeye cigarette candies? Secretly I like that smell but is it normal?


I'd guess it's amyl acetate, an ester commonly used as a solvent. One variant of it is called banana oil. 

I didn't waste those nine years in college...completely.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Compared to acrylic lacquer PC acrylic takes forever to harden. That smell I think is styrene.

I hate the way it smells personally.


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## Masterpiece (Feb 26, 2008)

804 Paint said:


> Does anyone know if PC Hybrid can go directly over oil? I would assume so but you know what they say about assumptions…only thing is that I'd be the only asshat!


For any client's job, I would follow the standard prep procedures as mentioned simply for peace of mind but when the standard latex version was first rolled out I applied it to several doors and trim that had pigmented lacquer sprayed on as a torture test and by the next day it could not be scratched off. This was with no sanding, deglossing or anything.

However this was in an environment where there was no grease,etc. But I never want to be in a situation where I feel "If I'd only sanded first"....Just not worth the cost in time, labor, aggravation and diminished reputation (in the client's eyes).


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## 804 Paint (Jan 31, 2014)

Masterpiece said:


> For any client's job, I would follow the standard prep procedures as mentioned simply for peace of mind but when the standard latex version was first rolled out I applied it to several doors and trim that had pigmented lacquer sprayed on as a torture test and by the next day it could not be scratched off. This was with no sanding, deglossing or anything.
> 
> However this was in an environment where there was no grease,etc. But I never want to be in a situation where I feel "If I'd only sanded first"....Just not worth the cost in time, labor, aggravation and diminished reputation (in the client's eyes).


Yes, always prep first. My question was not whether or not to prep, but really, if primer would be required in the prep. Normally for waterborne over oil, I clean, sand, tack, prime, sand, tack, paint. I love the PC hybrid but have not had to go over oil with it yet. I will love it even more if I can skip priming.


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