# Cabinets from hell



## jKkll (Jan 10, 2015)

I searched the forums briefly but couldn't find anything quite like my issue so I apologize in advance if this is a subject already touched upon.

I'm currently working on a job which includes kitchen cabinets. I probably wouldn't have this problem if I could've used oil but the designer and home owner insisted on latex.

This family cooks very grease heavy Indian food and there was quite an accumulation on the cabinets.

I normally scrape, sand, sweep and sponge every surface I plan to paint but after being told by numerous other painters that I do too much prep I've been trying to back off. I do spend much more time on prep than paint as I believe the former to be most important.

The cabinets were latex prior so I cleaned them with denatured alcohol and used mineral spirits where they were really bad. I then scuffed them with a sanding sponge.

I don't often use primer on regular surfaces because my prep guarantees adhesion, even latex to oil. In most cases. Apparently not this one.

All the fronts are removed and vertical and seem to take the paint OK. Not as good as I'd have liked, but OK. The cabinets themselves however are not taking well with the first coat leaving streaks in places and webbing I've never seen before in others. It's not so bad that the home owner can notice, but I do and it makes me uneasy.

I have a feeling that I haven't removed all the grease and I'm not sure what to do. Before I get any further should I go back and sand them further? Should I just use a heavy primer and then paint? They're not all painted, but will priming the areas already painted even work?

I wish I could've used alkyd paint. This would then be a non issue.

Thank you in advance!


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Sounds like you have some more sanding to do. What products are you using?

Your right prep is key to any paint job coming out good or great.

Maybe try a grease fighting dish detergent and warm water, clean the cabinets again, sand. I would fully prime these with a gripper primer. With all the grease splatter you mention maybe find a USDA approved clear and apply that over the painted cabinets.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Alcohol won't touch the grease and paint thinner leaves an oily film behind. You should clean them with lacquer thinner.


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## jKkll (Jan 10, 2015)

cdpainting said:


> Sounds like you have some more sanding to do. What products are you using?
> 
> Your right prep is key to any paint job coming out good or great.
> 
> Maybe try a grease fighting dish detergent and warm water, clean the cabinets again, sand. I would fully prime these with a gripper primer. With all the grease splatter you mention maybe find a USDA approved clear and apply that over the painted cabinets.


A clear like poly? I thought about that. I would still sleep better if I knew I had a good foundation. I think sanding and priming is the way to go.


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## jKkll (Jan 10, 2015)

Bender said:


> Alcohol won't touch the grease and paint thinner leaves an oily film behind. You should clean them with lacquer thinner.


I may try this but the areas in question are 1 coated already.


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

jKkll said:


> I don't often use primer on regular surfaces because my prep guarantees adhesion, even latex to oil. In most cases. Apparently not this one.


Right here is your failure.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Cabinets were originally latex though, so not the case this time.

I would say possibly not enough cleaning. And the mineral spirits is not recommended before applying latex either. Like mentioned above, it can leave an oily residue.

When I clean cabinets, I used something like Challenger, Dirtex (ammonia based cleaner) or krudcutter. On latex, I think lacquer thinner may be too aggressive and make a mess of the existing coating.


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## Danahy (Dec 11, 2008)

I think those "numerous other painters" that said you do too much prep steered you in the wrong direction. 

The solution to how to fix has already been mentioned above.


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## jKkll (Jan 10, 2015)

ProWallGuy said:


> Right here is your failure.


I don't mind using primer, and I am quick to use it on problem surfaces. The issue with cabinets is that every coat of any product you apply to them can add a 32nd of an inch to the surface which eventually leads to wear that I don't want associated to my paint job.

But... I'm about to categorize these cabinets as problem surfaces.


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## Brian C (Oct 8, 2011)

Krudcutter will provide a good clean base for your primer.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

jKkll said:


> I don't mind using primer, and I am quick to use it on problem surfaces. The issue with cabinets is that every coat of any product you apply to them can add a 32nd of an inch to the surface which eventually leads to wear that I don't want associated to my paint job.
> 
> But... I'm about to categorize these cabinets as problem surfaces.


One coat of paint or primer is not close to 1/32". aura dries to about. 2 mils thick, it would be about 16 coats to build to 1/32"


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

I wouldn't worry too much about what other painters say about you doing too much prep. Your job, your rep. As long as you're getting paid for it, do it your way.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

The mineral spirits could be the problem. It's not good to use it for cleaning before applying acrylics because it doesn't evaporate cleanly. No big deal if your using oil but it can really screw with latex. Need to remove the residue for starters.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Challenger, Crud cutter, TSP, Blue soap. All better options for cleaning and making a substrate ready for paint.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Years ago, a painter told me to do that (mineral spirit wipe down) before applying latex as a tack cloth substitute. It was bad advice.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Challenger, Crud cutter, TSP, Blue soap. All better options for cleaning and making a substrate ready for paint.


What I was going to post, we use an industrial degreaser first scrubbing it out with a 3m pad. If the finish is intact it cleans and profiles for primer in one step.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Never heard of blue soap?


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Bender said:


> Never heard of blue soap?


My local BM store carries it. It's a good, non phosphate cleaning solution. 

http://www.uspaintsupply.com/paint/glisten-blue-soap/


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

No kidding. And you paint right over it? I've actually never tried crud cutter either. Always stuck with a traditional lacquer thinner wash and a good sanding.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

It's a great general purpose "wall washing" soap. It cleans just about the same as TSP but doesn't leave and residue that will interfere with adhesion of your paint. I give it two thumbs up. :thumbup:


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I try to use only products that specify no residue and still rinse to be safe when cleaning whenever possible.


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

DeanV said:


> Cabinets were originally latex though, so not the case this time.
> 
> I would say possibly not enough cleaning. And the mineral spirits is not recommended before applying latex either. Like mentioned above, it can leave an oily residue.
> 
> When I clean cabinets, I used something like Challenger, Dirtex (ammonia based cleaner) or krudcutter. On latex, I think lacquer thinner may be too aggressive and make a mess of the existing coating.



+1 for dirtex. Use the powdered concentrate.


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## cardwizzard (Sep 13, 2010)

As others have mentioned, never worry what other painters say about lack of prep. In painting it's not good advice to follow the path of least resistance.

We use krud kutter also and would recommend. 

On a side note, sometimes you just got to say no. With designers, architects etc you can have valuable input. Explain the difference with oil v latex in a heavy use kitchen like this, maybe have the customer present at the time.

Which products are you using?

Sent from my D5503 using PaintTalk.com mobile app


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## ttalbon (Aug 6, 2009)

You don't want to be in the position of saying well other painters say this or that. The customer wants to know your opinion as a professional. They're paying for your experience and know how. 
Personally I'd go with something like Krud Kutter and if in doubt an adhesion primer, then you're good to go


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