# Church Pew restoration



## Surreal Painting (May 10, 2015)

Hello everybody. Today (10 days) we are restoring this awesome pew. I'm very excited for this project. It's something I can do while at home after my other work so plenty of time to get this done.

Already have a plan of attack on this restoration but I wanted to see what others thought before I go ahead start. 

What would you do? what would you use? How long you think it would take you? 

Let's collaborate a little. This isn't about making money, this is about restoring this to its rightful state. 




target color 


http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/hethow/media/20150815_142546_zps7ayfqyqn.jpg.htmlhttp://s1286.photobucket.com/user/hethow/media/20150815_142532_zps3vq6xlat.jpg.htmlhttp://s1286.photobucket.com/user/hethow/media/20150815_142519_zpszl0rw9is.jpg.htmlhttp://s1286.photobucket.com/user/hethow/media/20150815_142514_zpsmre1ikf3.jpg.html


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## Surreal Painting (May 10, 2015)




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## doctors11 (May 17, 2010)

I'm FAR from an expert on this but I've dabbled a bit...so...

Chemical strip followed by dry sanding to 150 grit. Apply an oil/varnish mix and wet sand to 180. Let dry for 24 hours, repeat wet sand but with 220. This should make the wood "pop" and give a fairly smooth surface with some grain filling. Continue with finer grits if you want. 

To give it added protection, after it's cured for at least a week, apply a few coats of hand rubbed poly, buffing between coats with either 0000 steel wool or equivalent synthetic pad.

Good luck...let's see pictures! :yes:


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## Surreal Painting (May 10, 2015)

Thanks for the advice. 

So far I'm thinking.

Chemical stripe.
Restore chemical to return the weathered areas to normal.
Clean off any residue
Repair 
Fill
Sand
stain
topcoat clear xx coats.

I dig that wetsand Idea. I've wetsanded cars before never thought of doing that to wood. 

Once in my friends woodshop we used Asphalt mixed with our stain to make the Flame pop on a maple piece. Actually works pretty good. 

Any suggestions on *products*? I'm asking and open to suggestions. Price is not a concern as much as it is that this piece gets a proper restore and gets put back into its forever home. 

I have some left over superdeck (wood cleaner), some helmsman oil base clear. However I'm more then happy to try or check out some other things. Oil or water based pref.


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

Surreal Painting said:


> Any suggestions on *products*? I'm asking and open to suggestions.


Well, this thread of yours has certainly touched a nerve:

http://www.painttalk.com/f2/19-doors-counting-exterior-behr-covers-48081/

The obvious questions here are,

1) Why aren't you going with a Behr clear?

or

2) Next time you are in Home Depot, why don't you stop by the Help Desk and get a recommendation for this pew?

This project has a lot of character; I applaud you for undertaking the restoration. Looking forward to seeing photos of the finished product. Thank you for sharing the backstory with us. Glad your association with BNI is paying off.


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## Surreal Painting (May 10, 2015)

Why would I ask for help from home depot when I have such sharing people here?


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

If you go with chemical remover make sure you get one that won't discolor or darken wood.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

What a great "little" project. I am assuming this will NOT be part of a production line of dozens of units which have to be kept on budget, but a labor of love for personal use.

OBVIOUSLY lots of TLC.


Have you investigated what church pews were often originally coated with ? I would not be surprised if a great number were with shellac. But then again, you may not want to be "authentic" but durable.

IF this pew was shellacked, I believe you can strip the old finish off with denatured alcohol and steel wool. If it was varnish or poly, then stripping with chemicals will be easier. Make sure you follow instructions as to how to neutralize the stripper after. 

Personally I would not wet sand bare wood, I don't believe in getting bare wood wet. 

As for finish coat. My preference would not be any stain. That wood looks rich enough to stand on its own.

My favorite finish is also very durable, Marine spar varnish, NOT polyurethane.

At the moment I think Epifanes is the best. But you may not want gloss. Although I have not used their other varnishes, I have full confidence in their products having had such great success with their clear gloss. They also have a "Rubbed Effect Varnish". You can see and read about many of their products and order from Jamestown Distributors in R.I. 

http://www.jamestowndistributors.co...UGoGeMaaY3933NPrd_PVdsDRYl0fCpj5qYaAszr8P8HAQ

BTW, if you do use Epifanes, use their thinner, it is far superior to any other mineral spirits you can buy. (and never NEVER use gum turpentine with varnish - don't ask how I know :whistling2


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## doctors11 (May 17, 2010)

daArch said:


> What a great "little" project. I am assuming this will NOT be part of a production line of dozens of units which have to be kept on budget, but a labor of love for personal use.
> 
> OBVIOUSLY lots of TLC.
> 
> ...


 Good points. If historical accuracy is the goal than some research is in order. Zinzer's Seal Coat is supposed to be easy to work with and fast drying.

Two thoughts on your "wet sanding" comments. One is my suggestion of wet sanding wasn't with water, rather it was with the oil/varnish mix. It creates a "dust slurry" that starts to fill the open grain. Two, water is often used by wood workers to intentionally raise the grain so that, after sanding it down again, it won't raise again after a finish coat is applied.

Can't wait to see the finished look!


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

doctors11 said:


> Good points. If historical accuracy is the goal than some research is in order. Zinzer's Seal Coat is supposed to be easy to work with and fast drying.
> 
> Two thoughts on your "wet sanding" comments. One is my suggestion of wet sanding wasn't with water, rather it was with the oil/varnish mix. It creates a "dust slurry" that starts to fill the open grain. Two, water is often used by wood workers to intentionally raise the grain so that, after sanding it down again, it won't raise again after a finish coat is applied.
> 
> Can't wait to see the finished look!


Ah HA !!!

Thanks.


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## Phinnster (Feb 20, 2013)

Chen strip 
Sand sand sand 
And I am thinking either a nice light sat stain or even Cetol door and window 
Multiple coats something light 
Good luck


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Phinnster said:


> Chen strip
> Sand sand sand
> And I am thinking either a nice light sat stain or even Cetol door and window
> Multiple coats something light
> Good luck


This bears repeating. 

We did a houseful of old doors in similar shape. The amount of sanding to get down to flat wood (no raised grain) was appalling. For the larger, more open areas, a selection of cabinet scrapers comes in very handy, but you've got to learn how to keep them sharp.

One trick that I've posted before: use a MeCl-based stripper, with copious ventilation (!). Give the stripper plenty of time to cook, and then "scrub" the stripper with handfuls of planer shavings. The shaving absorb the stripper and help clean the loosened finished out of the details. That would be especially helpful in areas like the quatrefoils at the ends.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

Gough said:


> This bears repeating.
> 
> We did a houseful of old doors in similar shape. The amount of sanding to get down to flat wood (no raised grain) was appalling. For the larger, more open areas, a selection of cabinet scrapers comes in very handy, but you've got to learn how to keep them sharp.
> 
> One trick that I've posted before: use a MeCl-based stripper, with copious ventilation (!). Give the stripper plenty of time to cook, and then "scrub" the stripper with handfuls of planer shavings. The shaving absorb the stripper and help clean the loosened finished out of the details. That would be especially helpful in areas like the quatrefoils at the ends.



Great tip about the shavings.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> Great tip about the shavings.



That it is. He gave me that same tip before and I tried it on some elaborate doors I was stripping. It made a world of difference. The shavings absorbed a lot of the stripper "slurry" thereby extending the service life of the wire brushes and other stripping tools. I used hamster chips from the pet store. I keep a bag of them with the stripping supplies now.


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## Always Learning (Mar 24, 2012)

> What would you do? what would you use? How long you think it would take you?
> 
> Let's collaborate a little. This isn't about making money, this is about restoring this to its rightful state.


I have done more than 1 labor of love project, and always better for it...but never financially. Let me first establish a foundation to terms. In my reality, to restore correctly, is what is done to museum pieces.

With full respect to you, and I believe you are 100% sincere, but honesty and integrity are not equated with ability. A pastor may be a moral guy, but this does not mean he has skillss. The questions you asked indicate you are in way over your head to restore to my definition of "rightful state". There is a huge gap between making something look nice.....and professional restoration. I suspicion you are just trying to make it look better, not restore it, and nothing wrong with that. Just as you are doing, I also have done many a project to improve. Please read the following comments with this in mind, and apply to what fits best for you.

Previous stripping info provided by others is sound. Heavy water is always a bad idea, but this bench is so far gone, you could hardly make it worse, no matter the stripper used. I agree, upon completion get it neutralized/clean and dry before moving forward. This could mean a day, or days, but is never minutes. (note the black...that is what water does to many open grain woods as this one has). My most common mistake in refinishing is rushing dry times.....you can't beat experience. You can use wood bleach, but you will not remove all dark staining, so don't kill yourself trying. Be thorough, and realistic to result. I always start with weak chemical, and go progressively stronger as needed. Denatured alcohol will strip shellac. IMO there is no stain used prior, but rather existing coloring being the result of ambering from product age. Even with sand after strip, which I do recommend, you will not get the wood looking like new. Improve is the operative word. Personally I do not like the suggestion of a clear, because to my trained eye, with clear only, I will immediately notice the previous damage, but if that is the "patina" the customer likes....that is what you give them. Define your finished result and proceed with a system accordingly. At minimum I would use a pigmented clear as done by use of a dye stain, but I think this not the project for you to experiment with this type. A grain filler is a good idea to hide the black that will remain in the open grain if customer prefers no colorant to the surface grain. The water borne finishes, almost with every MFR, will not amber over time. I think gel stains are the "cats meow" for refinishing, having greater ability to hide blemishes with less effort. My #1 recommendation to you is a gel stain, giving you the best odds of a satisfied customer.

As I do not know your definition of restore, the same exists with you and your customer. Therefore I recommend a sample to establish a definition, and have them sign off. This alone can take hours and hours, but it only takes getting burned 1 time because of an assumption, and you will never do it again.

What has not been talked about, is the glaring water damage evident to the structure. 20% of my work is painting trade related, another 60% carpenter/cabinetmaker. To refinish and not remedy the wood damage and assembly failure, is not to IMO restoring to its rightful state. So IMO you first need a cabinetmaker. Not only do joints need glue/clamping, pics indicate some pieces of trim need to be replicated by a millwork shop, as old has shrunk so bad, no refinisher exists who can close the open joints as shown on floor miters.

As to type of finished clear product, because this piece appears to be stored outdoors on a covered porch, this means you need a product with greater flexibility, possibly even good UV resistance. Just this week I used some General Finishes 450 with great results to application performance....cannot testify to longevity. However with greater flexibility of an exterior product (paint or varnish) means the surface is softer....so prioritize type accordingly. Remember lots of light coats just heavy enough to level off....not 2 thick ones.

2 years ago, a contributor on PT told me about Woodweb.com, because more furniture refinishers found there. As with the many master painters on this site who I look up to, there are many master furniture finishers on that. You would need 25 years of industry specific experience to even begin to talk apples to apples with them, as is true with the masters on paint talk. Each guy has a favorite product, there is no such thing as best MFR, it gets super technical, and is all about a tried and proven system, that only time and experience makes one able to replicate.  For example, it is like comparing the best athlete in the world at a specific sport, to a high school freshman.....some things just cannot be learned in a week no matter how sincere and gifted you are. For furniture grade finishes, you must have a spray booth....the technical difference between a fine furniture finish and what a "field painter" accomplishes is enormous....it all depends upon your definition to terms....on how close you look....and most importantly how close your customer will look and what they expect. As a word of advice....on any of these web sites....be very careful about using the word *best*.....that is Pandora's box...I am never ceased to be amazed after 31 years in the industry...that a guy can never stop learning....stay humble...lots of tried and true experience is shared here....and for FREE. 

If a museum type of restoration is priority, IMO you are disrespecting your customer to take this on. Any seasoned PRO will do it better and for a lower cost. If "improved" is what is acceptable, hours till completion are relative to your definition of restoration.

Hope this helps, and wish you the best.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Always Learning said:


> I have done more than 1 labor of love project, and always better for it...but never financially. Let me first establish a foundation to terms. In my reality, to restore correctly, is what is done to museum pieces.
> {snipped LOTS of excellent advise and tips}


 What you said, sir, makes me want to go out a dig up some old abused furniture and follow your steps. 

For that well written, extensive, thorough, knowledgeable post alone, I'm gonna do something not oft done, I present you with the coveted PT Gold Star







​


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Given AL's advice, I don't think I'd ever begin to tackle a project like the one the OP provided, unless I had the time. And I certainly won't have that kind of time until I retire! LOL!


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## doctors11 (May 17, 2010)

Always Learning said:


> I have done more than 1 labor of love project, and always better for it...but never financially. Let me first establish a foundation to terms. In my reality, to restore correctly, is what is done to museum pieces.
> 
> With full respect to you, and I believe you are 100% sincere, but honesty and integrity are not equated with ability. A pastor may be a moral guy, but this does not mean he has skillss. The questions you asked indicate you are in way over your head to restore to my definition of "rightful state". There is a huge gap between making something look nice.....and professional restoration. I suspicion you are just trying to make it look better, not restore it, and nothing wrong with that. Just as you are doing, I also have done many a project to improve. Please read the following comments with this in mind, and apply to what fits best for you.
> 
> ...


 Yeah, excellent post. I will, though, take exception, respectfully, to your comment that furniture grade finishes must be sprayed. Throughout history craftsmen have achieved beautiful "museum-grade" finishes without spraying, usually combining oils, waxes, varnishes etc in a hand rubbed application. It's only been recently that commercial spraying has allowed more efficient, albeit not necessarily as esthetically pleasing, application of finishes.

Google Sam Maloof and look at what he did with his furniture...he was another in a long line of finishers that preferred the hand rubbed effect.


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## doctors11 (May 17, 2010)




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## doctors11 (May 17, 2010)




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## Surreal Painting (May 10, 2015)

Always Learning said:


> I have done more than 1 labor of love project, and always better for it...but never financially. Let me first establish a foundation to terms. In my reality, to restore correctly, is what is done to museum pieces.
> 
> With full respect to you, and I believe you are 100% sincere, but honesty and integrity are not equated with ability. A pastor may be a moral guy, but this does not mean he has skillss. The questions you asked indicate you are in way over your head to restore to my definition of "rightful state". There is a huge gap between making something look nice.....and professional restoration. I suspicion you are just trying to make it look better, not restore it, and nothing wrong with that. Just as you are doing, I also have done many a project to improve. Please read the following comments with this in mind, and apply to what fits best for you.
> 
> ...


Hey AL thanks for the tips advise and kinds words. I divinity don't have 31 years of experience but don't let that be a guideline for how my ability to refinish. I don't let on like I know a lot or even try to pretend to. I should have specified the quality we are after on this piece on the original post. This isn't a frame off restoration like a museum piece would be. This is going to be more strip it down, fix her up and refinish her as she sits. Still going to be a quality piece just not a museum quality piece. Sorry for the Auto terms but I lack the wording to explain it proper. 

Taking on projects I cannot do isn't my style. Things not many know about me are I have and do work at a cabinet shop from time to time (Not much since my own business is rolling). Years of experience finishing new cabinets and refinishing old ones. Have years of experience in auto industry and a few years in new construction and residential repaints. It does not add up to be a lot compared to some of you. However I have skills in multiple finishing areas. The experience I lack, that is were the experience of others comes in for me. I'm only 32 so cut me some slack.

If this piece takes longer then the time frame preferred, it won't be rushed. Not half fast doing this project. I'm going to do right by this piece and its owner (he is a lawyer so I had best). It will take as long as needed but I will not be a sloth on it either. 

Only reason I asked for tips and product info is that I have not used everything out there nor have I done every thing out there either. Not a wood carver or a wood bender. 

*Back to the piece. *

Starting the process of striping. Sitting with some chemical now. Test area showed promising results. Will let it sit for a while before I mess with it again. Have a neutralizer ready but that wont be needed for a while yet. **note to self don't touch your ear with chemical on it**


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

I can't wait to see the finish results, and I have a feeling Surreal is gonna be tempted to experiment with some of the museum quality techniques. :thumbsup:

One thing about these types of projects is "always learning" and always getting better, even if your goal is a few notches below A+++++


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Surreal Painting said:


> Hello everybody. Today (10 days) we are restoring this awesome pew. I'm very excited for this project. It's something I can do while at home after my other work so plenty of time to get this done.
> 
> Already have a plan of attack on this restoration but I wanted to see what others thought before I go ahead start.
> 
> ...


The pew already has a number of checks and even some delamination. If you're using a water-rinsesable stripper, those may become worse.

For checks, we generally resort to using "whisker patches", thin wedges of the same species driven into the check after injecting some glue. After the glue dries, the extra material of the patch can be pared/planed away.


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## Always Learning (Mar 24, 2012)

Surreal Painting said:


> Hey AL thanks for the tips advise and kinds words. I divinity don't have 31 years of experience but don't let that be a guideline for how my ability to refinish. I don't let on like I know a lot or even try to pretend to. I should have specified the quality we are after on this piece on the original post. This isn't a frame off restoration like a museum piece would be. This is going to be more strip it down, fix her up and refinish her as she sits. Still going to be a quality piece just not a museum quality piece. Sorry for the Auto terms but I lack the wording to explain it proper.
> 
> Taking on projects I cannot do isn't my style. Things not many know about me are I have and do work at a cabinet shop from time to time (Not much since my own business is rolling). Years of experience finishing new cabinets and refinishing old ones. Have years of experience in auto industry and a few years in new construction and residential repaints. It does not add up to be a lot compared to some of you. However I have skills in multiple finishing areas. The experience I lack, that is were the experience of others comes in for me. I'm only 32 so cut me some slack.
> 
> ...


SP,
It can be challenging to post....and get all perfect...post was so long already. If in any way my selection of words made you feel "belittled", my apology. As you referenced your faith in another post see James 3:2. Perfect I am not. Wish you the best with your project.


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## doctors11 (May 17, 2010)

Surreal, what kind of stripper are you using? And will this be going back onto the exterior porch?


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

Soooooooo........this was one of two threads that resulted from my search query for 'durable clear coat'.....

1.I wonder how this project turned out

2. I guess I will just go out and get a pint of General Finishes High Performance or Enduro to test....ughh


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

fauxlynn said:


> Soooooooo........this was one of two threads that resulted from my search query for 'durable clear coat'.....
> 
> 1.I wonder how this project turned out
> 
> 2. I guess I will just go out and get a pint of General Finishes High Performance or Enduro to test....ughh


What a timely post, Lynn. I thought of you this week when I was forced into attempting to match a finish on cabinet doors that a customer's faux finisher had a applied years ago. It was basically a whitewash or pickled finish that I guessed was a clear glaze tinted slightly with BM Linen White. I got the color and depth pretty good for a first time user of glaze. Next day, I started applying a coat of Minwax Polycrylic (brushing) and it started softening and lifting the glaze. 

Ever had this happen?


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

slinger58 said:


> What a timely post, Lynn. I thought of you this week when I was forced into attempting to match a finish on cabinet doors that a customer's faux finisher had a applied years ago. It was basically a whitewash or pickled finish that I guessed was a clear glaze tinted slightly with BM Linen White. I got the color and depth pretty good for a first time user of glaze. Next day, I started applying a coat of Minwax Polycrylic (brushing) and it started softening and lifting the glaze.
> 
> Ever had this happen?


Yes, I have had that happen when I was too impatient to let something dry! Weird. If it was just clear water based glaze and the paint, that should've been fine to top coat the next day. The only thing I can think of is something in the polycrylic reactivated something in the glaze. I have gingerly dabbed on a product to set it off and coated again when that felt dry. Risky.......

PS- so proud of you,lol


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