# SW Easy Sand and WB pro classic, will it workout?



## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

So my builders plans on us using Easy Sand over mdf trim and a latex like pro classic, what does anyone think about this, I believe easy sand is toluene based so I am scratching my head kinda.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

You will be fine, other than easy sand doesn't always sand easy for me. Often takes forever to dry, gums up paper days after application. Fun times!


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

straight_lines said:


> You will be fine, other than easy sand doesn't always sand easy for me. Often takes forever to dry, gums up paper days after application. Fun times!


I know I hate that non-sanding bs. Makes ya want to just stop sanding and say"it's good" when someone is telling you what to use.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

I haven't used it in a few years. I found it really messy after sanding. Too easy to sand. Still, you'll be fine. Many miles of trim have been done with that combo.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

Okay cool, thanks. Will update next week during sanding.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

So far we really don't like the easy sand. It took us 4 days to sand a 2900 sqft home with one room caufer ceiling and 2 stairwells, primered surface turned out all pitted and it didnt sand wirth a darn. Now we are getting contamination, whether caused by tack cloth or primer leaching solvents, or slim chance pump is introducing oil into topcoat.... we are having major problems. 3/4 of first coat turned out fine, last quarter has contamination spots. Starting second coat we saw spots and slight wrinkling but dotted not wrinkles.
We cleaned pump thoroughly and restarted with fresh filters, buckets, strainer, and paint.... kept happening on second coat in places where first coat looked just fine..


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

spots as in bubbles? or just discoloration? or do you mean that the finish is fish-eyeing? 

if you can upload pictures or something maybe that'll help us help you.

edit: sorry to hear it didn't work out 100% like you wanted. But at least the bulk of it turned out okay.


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## Monstertruck (Oct 26, 2013)

ridesarize said:


> So far we really don't like the easy sand. It took us 4 days to sand a 2900 sqft home with one room caufer ceiling and 2 stairwells, primered surface turned out all pitted and it didnt sand wirth a darn. Now we are getting contamination, whether caused by tack cloth or primer leaching solvents, or slim chance pump is introducing oil into topcoat.... we are having major problems. 3/4 of first coat turned out fine, last quarter has contamination spots. Starting second coat we saw spots and slight wrinkling but dotted not wrinkles.
> We cleaned pump thoroughly and restarted with fresh filters, buckets, strainer, and paint.... kept happening on second coat in places where first coat looked just fine..


Any chance you can get your SW rep in there asap?
We've had pitting from both dust and overspray on finish coats of ProClassic.

Good luck sorting out the contamination issue.
Sounds like you're in for some headaches this week.

Good luck!


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

ridesarize said:


> So far we really don't like the easy sand. It took us 4 days to sand a 2900 sqft home with one room caufer ceiling and 2 stairwells, primered surface turned out all pitted and it didnt sand wirth a darn. Now we are getting contamination, whether caused by tack cloth or primer leaching solvents, or slim chance pump is introducing oil into topcoat.... we are having major problems. 3/4 of first coat turned out fine, last quarter has contamination spots. Starting second coat we saw spots and slight wrinkling but dotted not wrinkles. We cleaned pump thoroughly and restarted with fresh filters, buckets, strainer, and paint.... kept happening on second coat in places where first coat looked just fine..


them acrylic/alkyds seem to do that fish eyeing stuff a bit. not at all a contamination issue. I just recoat and they go away.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

WB proclassic. Ugh.. 

Its the nature of the paint.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

woodcoyote said:


> spots as in bubbles? or just discoloration? or do you mean that the finish is fish-eyeing?
> 
> if you can upload pictures or something maybe that'll help us help you.
> 
> edit: sorry to hear it didn't work out 100% like you wanted. But at least the bulk of it turned out okay.


Tiny Spots at first, like immediately after its sprayed appear anywhere from a cm to 2 inches apart. They start small and grow in ugliness quickly, paint is separating on those dots and flow around and down slightly. Looks like ostrich skin boots to me! l have had that exact look happen on front doors before and figured it was from the tack cloth. 
So upstairs looked good after first coat and we seconded a room last night (2 days after first coat) and crap it happened throughout but then also it did something else maybe called fish eye, but looked like it ate into first coat causing microbeads/dots that raised up. Prolly 40 per sq inch. Then we went through pump, started all new/clean and shot 1 baseboard- looked good, shot some doors and bam, nastyness again immediately. So we did not second coat basically whole house yet.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

Monstertruck said:


> Any chance you can get your SW rep in there asap?
> We've had pitting from both dust and overspray on finish coats of ProClassic.
> 
> Good luck sorting out the contamination issue.
> ...


Yeah we have a call for rep to come out monday but that will not help us get millpack done I bet. It wasn't any pitting from overspray. Our first topcoat only showed pitting from primer texture (even orbitaled primer). Oh primer was only 1 coated but that is not a concern whatsoever, now. 
I will show pics soon, I have to put em on cpu to upload. Pics dont show everyrhing clearly though.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

That's called fish eyeing


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

good luck with SW 
They were no help to us when we needed them


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

Thank, what would cause fish eye on only some of the first coat? And then the second coat where it looked just perfectly fine before? Would it be minute amounts of easy sand dust? That might explain first coat problems but the second coat problems I'm stumped. We only seconded some things that looked good on first coat.
Other factor I'm thinking is solvent bleeding..
When the bad areas dried they looked unacceptable. .


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## Monstertruck (Oct 26, 2013)

ridesarize said:


> Thank, what would cause fish eye on only some of the first coat? And then the second coat where it looked just perfectly fine before? Would it be minute amounts of easy sand dust? That might explain first coat problems but the second coat problems I'm stumped. We only seconded some things that looked good on first coat.
> Other factor I'm thinking is solvent bleeding..
> When the bad areas dried they looked unacceptable. .


Here's the best explanation I've found- 
http://pc.dupont.com/dpc/en/US/html/visitor/s/trouble/PDSG_Fisheyes.html

Sounds like there is an additive that you can purchase that might help. 

Good luck!


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Its the nature of the product you are using.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

straight_lines said:


> Its the nature of the product you are using.


Nature of the beast!


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

we've been lately using for trim, the s.w. D.T.M. Real nice stuff. Real easey to work with. real nice finish. Grabs. haven't had a problem with it in any way. it hasn't once fish eyed and doesn't have the tendency to sag that the pro classic does.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

I say screw this hybrid sh#t give me an alkyd or a latex. I don't need that self leveling bs when I could always spray fine finish.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

Oden said:


> we've been lately using for trim, the s.w. D.T.M. Real nice stuff. Real easey to work with. real nice finish. Grabs. haven't had a problem with it in any way. it hasn't once fish eyed and doesn't have the tendency to sag that the pro classic does.


Is that a new version/hybrid or standard oil dtm?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Always best to veto builder (and architect) specs. Products are painter perogative. Implement change orders liberally.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

ridesarize said:


> Is that a new version/hybrid or standard oil dtm?


Not oil. Hybrid. Best trim paint I've used so far. So easy going on. One job a while back was specked for Ben Moore so we used their DTM. Good stuff too. I'm going with the DTM till further notice on all trim.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

vermontpainter said:


> Always best to veto builder (and architect) specs. Products are painter perogative. Implement change orders liberally.


Wish I could..


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Ugh.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

vermontpainter said:


> Ugh. It must suck to be trapped in 1997


yup...


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

The local sw rep came out to the job today,and we talked and tried to get to the bottom of these issues. We checked out freshly sprayed trim and doors, and other parts thatwere only one coat dried. The continuation of the 2nd coat also fisheyed and aligatored today. We bought new hose, with pump clean again shot sime scuffed window casings. They fisheyed slightly and then we got a call saying SW HQ said problem occurred before.... bad product, scuff and coat with Solo. They are picking up the tab for all products so that's nice.
Bad thing is I got many sags that need wet sanding then cover with 1c of finish no prime so it'll be touchy. I believe I'll have to 2 coat those more sanded areas...
So now on to solo, hopefully straight forward. Haven't used it. Thanks for all support!


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

Oh BTW the topcoat I just used was WB but not hybrid pro classic...


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

ridesarize said:


> The local sw rep came out to the job today,and we talked and tried to get to the bottom of these issues. We checked out freshly sprayed trim and doors, and other parts thatwere only one coat dried. The continuation of the 2nd coat also fisheyed and aligatored today. We bought new hose, with pump clean again shot sime scuffed window casings. They fisheyed slightly and then we got a call saying SW HQ said problem occurred before.... bad product, scuff and coat with Solo. They are picking up the tab for all products so that's nice.
> Bad thing is I got many sags that need wet sanding then cover with 1c of finish no prime so it'll be touchy. I believe I'll have to 2 coat those more sanded areas...
> So now on to solo, hopefully straight forward. Haven't used it. Thanks for all support!


Sorry to hear for the problems, never a good thing, but at least big Sherwin stepped up and paid for the material issue. Try getting that service out of home depot or lowe's lol.

As for Solo, it's a great product, I really like it. In actuality I think it is better than the ProClassic. I used both on a single job earlier this year and was able to easily compare the two, since it was the same house and found the solo to be better. Levels better and you have a little more workability than PC.

Hopefully that undercoat doesn't give you any issues, but as far as Solo...good stuff.

Edit: The only thing I miss about the WB PC is that it smells like bananas in the bucket/can so it always makes me hungry. The solo doesn't really have a particular smell like that, that sticks out. lol. Just a non-informative tid bit lol. 

Good luck! Let us know how it goes.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Yea problem solved, it was the product the whole time. Proclassic WB sprays like chit, if yo do a search here for pro classic tip shear seeding you will find lots of information. Some pieces come out great, then you get the problems you had. Impossible to get consistent results with it spraying.

Solo should be easy to work with.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

scuff sanded everything except some doors that had worse fish eyes, we wet sanded those. shot 1 coat solo. I had some sort of aligatoring or wrinking but in dot pattern, died down but left traces... No new fish eye-ing. Mill pack turned out for the most part. We had 20 deg temp last night so the inside of front door ran little strings of paint down by glass area, and window liners/sills have small puddles at inside corners due to freezing cold vinyl windows. 
Shot the solo unthinned, 410 FF titan, 3/4 pressure on .40 gpm rig.
First pic is problem pro classic wb
second pic after 1 coat of Solo eggshell


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

Pictures^ ^ ^


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## Paintdian (Apr 17, 2013)

Oh man, what the heck happend?


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

On my way to fix some doors that have runs and sags. Not looking forward to it, and know my chances of it spraying flat and behaving are slim.. Hopefully this will be the last time I will have to spay PC styrene acrylic again.


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

So your having issues with the solo as well now? Maybe the undercoat is giving you problems still? 

Let us know. Also for the run/sags, we carry around 5 gal propane tanks and blower heaters. Even after we spray a room for the day/night, we throw the heat on high and try to get it to set-up before we head out for the night. Almost like dry freezing it in place, if anything, it's a good idea just to have one to make sure the ambient room temperature is conducive for actually painting as well.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

Paintdian said:


> Oh man, what the heck happend?


We had a bad batch of wb pro classic, but I believe we also had slight adhesion factors, possibly from pitted primer. We had fish eye and dotted film as it dried.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I just resprayed those doors and had that happen to me. Kept wetting it out until it went away, of course it made it bust loose.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

woodcoyote said:


> So your having issues with the solo as well now? Maybe the undercoat is giving you problems still?
> 
> Let us know. Also for the run/sags, we carry around 5 gal propane tanks and blower heaters. Even after we spray a room for the day/night, we throw the heat on high and try to get it to set-up before we head out for the night. Almost like dry freezing it in place, if anything, it's a good idea just to have one to make sure the ambient room temperature is conducive for actually painting as well.


No problems with solo coat... it did dot up but went away. Some fish eye showed from first coat on some doors... but one would have to search for them though.
I had runs coming ftom glass srea only on front door and skylights, they dripped in one stream down like 2 feet in 7 spots. It was just too freezing outside. I fixed em up real good after curing a little. I wet sanded them down, then lacquer puttied remaining marks and paint edges, aerosol primed, shot it and turned out wonderful. Wait till I post pics.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

straight_lines said:


> I just resprayed those doors and had that happen to me. Kept wetting it out until it went away, of course it made it bust loose.


Dotting (aligatoring but in dot texture) happened to my stuff 10-20 min after being sprayed. What about yours? And did it look like my pics? btw my dots stuck out, not holes. It was moisture getting under previous coat... but that was separate from the fish eye problem.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

It looked like your pic, but I am pretty sure it just wasn't flowing out like it should and they would have been holes. It was immediate. 

My test sprays did good, its a frustrating paint to spray.


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