# recessed lighting Hole Patching??



## Gotdibz (Sep 30, 2010)

Hey everyone

What steps do you take to repair Holes on Ceilings left over from removed recessed lighting?

I already started working on it. I would like to hear about your experiences.

Electricians had already patched the holes with drywall cutouts. 
I had to adjust the peaces so they sit flush or recessed from the rest of the ceiling drywall ( I didnt want to leave big lumps on these flat ceilings). Some holes have metal plates :/ 


Here are some pictures 

I used Sheetrock brand Durabond as the first coat. I plan on using easysand for the top coats.


----------



## Tonyg (Dec 9, 2007)

I patch them :icon_rolleyes:


----------



## DanielMDollaPainting (Feb 24, 2011)

Those recessed boxes should back up the mud. It always sucks when you have a gaping hole. I know people who use those self stick metal patches. I tried one one time on a ceiling and it wouldn't stick. Maybe the adhesive got ruined sitting in my truck forever. I always use the paint stick or shim method for nailers to back up the drywall plug for smaller patches.


----------



## Gotdibz (Sep 30, 2010)

DanielMDollaPainting said:


> Those recessed boxes should back up the mud. It always sucks when you have a gaping hole. I know people who use those self stick metal patches. I tried one one time on a ceiling and it wouldn't stick. Maybe the adhesive got ruined sitting in my truck forever. I always use the paint stick or shim method for nailers to back up the drywall plug for smaller patches.


yea I hear you. I have one of those metal patches on hand, I might use it for some of the wall Sconces that where removed. 

I like pressing/pushing in allot on mud between the gaps of the new drywall and the ceiling. I feel like it bonds them together. Thanks for advice.


----------



## OraarO (Oct 19, 2007)

I remember watching my first boss patch a ceiling hole (smaller than the ones you have here) with 5 min. mud and his broadknife.

He mixed the mud up real thick, just barely wet, and slapped a full knife of it up into the hole. Then he just left the knife stuck to the mud for a few minutes. When he pulled the knife off, the mud was already cured and didn't sag out of the hole.

I think it still needed a thin skim coat to finish it, but he didn't have to mess with any kind of backer or deal with a big sag hanging out of the hole that seems like when you scrape it off, it will always snap the rest of the patch loose too.:thumbup:

....I learned lots of tricks from him/his guys over the years - we did mainly apartment turnover painting, so everything we did needed to happen fast and look fairly good but not great.


----------



## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

I usually try and get a little tighter fit of the patch pieces than showed in the picture, but can understand it may be something you really had no control over. I also usually try and remove the electrical hardware, back up the patch with 1x4 wood and attach my repair piece to that. The way I look at it is that if there are any cracking or failure issues, I'm the one who is going to be held responsible.


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Looks like you're doing all you can with what you got. 

Wolf's right that if stuff goes wrong, it will be tough to blame anybody else.

The tighter fit the better. Durabond is a great choice for first fill.


----------



## HQP2005 (Feb 14, 2012)

I would only do this for a hole that was 6x6 or smaller or in this case 6in in diameter, although I have never done it on a cieling

Cut a peice of sheetrock 2-3 inches larger that the hole.
Score the back of this piece a little less than the exact measure of the hole so its tight.
break away the perimeter of the scored area and peel without tearing the front paper so you have a peice where the paper is larger than the rock.
spread mud around the hole, plug and cover with mud on second coat

This elimnates backing, screws and tape

Like I said, gravity may not allow this on a cieling


----------



## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Metal screen patches work but the adhesive is finicky as noted especially on a ceiling. Plus you'll have to float the mud over a larger area build up enough to cover the screen.

Use 5 minute mud with barely enough water like mentioned above. Then top coat with thin 90 minute or even better joint compound if you have the time. 

If you can use a knife well it's a 2 coat patch.

HQP I've seen my dad do that trick and it's much harder than my suggestion lol


----------



## HQP2005 (Feb 14, 2012)

HQP I've seen my dad do that trick and it's much harder than my suggestion lol[/QUOTE]


Yeah, I should have added that if you dont use backing, the trick becomes not to push it in to far. I usually set it in and then pull the mud with a knife larger than the patch, then let set before covering.

but you could still use a backing


----------



## ROOMINADAY (Mar 20, 2009)

I would never cover a juntion box if there is live wires in it...illegal! If the box is dead haul it out patch like wolf said. A california patch is not good on a smooth ceiling. You can use mesh or paper Tape and coat it wide with your flavour of mud. Fibfuse is great for these.

I would have those about 2-3 feet wide when done. Prefil the crappy patches with 5 min before taping.


----------



## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

HQP2005 said:


> I would only do this for a hole that was 6x6 or smaller or in this case 6in in diameter, although I have never done it on a cieling
> 
> Cut a peice of sheetrock 2-3 inches larger that the hole.
> Score the back of this piece a little less than the exact measure of the hole so its tight.
> ...


I do this method on smaller stuff all also. After you break away the drywall wet the paper just a tad before setting in the mud. Fast and easy.


----------



## LA Painter (Jul 28, 2009)

ROOMINADAY said:


> I would never cover a juntion box if there is live wires in it...illegal!


Bingo. 

A blank face plate is the proper way to do it, or, have an electrician pull new wires to bypass it all together.


----------



## Gotdibz (Sep 30, 2010)

ROOMINADAY said:


> I would never cover a juntion box if there is live wires in it...illegal! If the box is dead haul it out patch like wolf said. A california patch is not good on a smooth ceiling. You can use mesh or paper Tape and coat it wide with your flavour of mud. Fibfuse is great for these.
> 
> I would have those about 2-3 feet wide when done. Prefil the crappy patches with 5 min before taping.



Electricians took care of wiring. 


I didn't want to use tape or mesh, It would create to much build up (also would have to make the patches allot bigger to help feather it out). I wanted it to be as flush as possible. 

We'll see how it turn out.


----------



## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Gotdibz said:


> yea I hear you. I have one of those metal patches on hand, I might use it for some of the wall Sconces that where removed.
> 
> I like pressing/pushing in allot on mud between the gaps of the new drywall and the ceiling. I feel like it bonds them together. Thanks for advice.


 Self stick metal patches work great if you imbed them in mud first then skim over with following coats.sorta like a sandwich effect.Same effect like rebar in concrete.Also I didn't see any tape reinforcement in pics.Make sure all cracks are embed in tape.


----------



## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

I treat it like any other drywall patch i do, give it some backing first. 1x4 works, ive used plywood cut in strips too. i place up through the hole and behind the ceiling, take some sheetrock screws and fasten on both sides. make sure your opening is square, makes the taping easier. cut a piece of sheetrock to match the opening, make sure the thickness is the same as the ceiling. screw piece into the strips already installed. tape. skim coats. 

i wouldnt even try going over that metal box, im not sure what it is but if it has wires hooked into it your dealing with something that cant be covered.


----------



## briancreary (Oct 12, 2010)

*ahh*

worst words you can hear "The electrician already patched it." By my experience I usually just re-do whatever the electrician started.


----------



## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

briancreary said:


> worst words you can hear "The electrician already patched it." By my experience I usually just re-do whatever the electrician started.


Or Homeowner!


----------



## wills fresh coat (Nov 17, 2011)

StripandCaulk said:


> I treat it like any other drywall patch i do, give it some backing first. 1x4 works, ive used plywood cut in strips too. i place up through the hole and behind the ceiling, take some sheetrock screws and fasten on both sides. make sure your opening is square, makes the taping easier. cut a piece of sheetrock to match the opening, make sure the thickness is the same as the ceiling. screw piece into the strips already installed. tape. skim coats.
> 
> i wouldnt even try going over that metal box, im not sure what it is but if it has wires hooked into it your dealing with something that cant be covered.


This is how I do mine but I use 5 gal paint stirrers instead, thats about the only thing you can get for free at the paint stores anymore


----------



## TERRY365PAINTER (Jul 26, 2009)

I just bust a piece of wood off their fence . 
Lol


----------



## Gotdibz (Sep 30, 2010)

*Update*

Update on work

I stopped by today and gave it the second coat (Easysand 20min)

Its going to need a 3rd and final coat. The entire ceiling will be painted afterwords.

Pics.


----------



## HQP2005 (Feb 14, 2012)

ROOMINADAY said:


> I A california patch is not good on a smooth ceiling. You can use mesh or paper Tape and coat it wide with your flavour of mud. Fibfuse is great for these.
> 
> 
> I thought i was being clever. You even have a name for it.


----------



## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

HQP2005 said:


> I would only do this for a hole that was 6x6 or smaller or in this case 6in in diameter, although I have never done it on a cieling
> 
> Cut a peice of sheetrock 2-3 inches larger that the hole.
> Score the back of this piece a little less than the exact measure of the hole so its tight.
> ...


This is what some call a HOT PATCH. I wouldn't do this on a ceiling. I do like this method otherwise.


----------



## HQP2005 (Feb 14, 2012)

California patch, Hot patch, - this was the best trick i know and I didnt even have a name for it  Shows how much I have to learn :notworthy:


----------



## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

HQP2005 said:


> California patch, Hot patch, - this was the best trick i know and I didnt even have a name for it  Shows how much I have to learn :notworthy:


Most painters probably don't know that trick give yourself some credit!


----------



## LA Painter (Jul 28, 2009)

Hot Patch


----------



## ROOMINADAY (Mar 20, 2009)

I worked with some guys a few years ago and they called it a Texas Blowout! They looked at me like I was nuts when I called it a California patch. 

I did one for a couple who summers here from Georgia and they asked what I was doing and I said it is called a Georgia patch! They were some proud!:thumbup:


----------



## DanielMDollaPainting (Feb 24, 2011)

Pretty neat. Never seen that done like that. I'll have to try it myself. I always used paint sticks (either one or 5 gal sticks) and screws to make a nailer to back up the patch. Then tape all the seams with paper tape. That way is faster but is it as strong.
I have done my share of drywall hanging and finishing. When I tape a gaping crack in a corner, I never pack mud in the crack unless it has a day to dry before taping because it always pushes out. I just fack the tape over the crack dry. It looks better when it is done but there is still a big crack behind it. Same with the hot patch. I would think the drywall paper might come delaminated from the piece once it is scored klike that. Sometimes I'll just use a piece of paper tape over small holes less than 2 inches and just fake it.


----------



## HQP2005 (Feb 14, 2012)

DanielMDollaPainting said:


> That way is faster but is it as strong.


I have done dozens of these and seen dozens more working in a boarding school and have never seen one fail that was done right. Of course if it gets hit in just the right spot, well...... I beleive 6x6 is the largest opening that is recomended. Even if you do a backing, it still eliminates the tape and IMO is easier to finish off. Ive seen a good drywaller finish these in two coats.

Edit: I also wouldnt do it for the door knob issue in the video unless you were putting in a door stop


----------



## briancreary (Oct 12, 2010)

HQP2005 said:


> California patch, Hot patch, - this was the best trick i know and I didnt even have a name for it  Shows how much I have to learn :notworthy:


 
Most guys I talk to here in Mich. call this a hillbillie patch.


----------



## stevesonsiteservices (Jan 24, 2012)

I like to just cram toilet paper in the holes and then just throw some mud in there, Bam! all done move on hahaha! Don't try that was only a joke.


----------



## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Another great product for patching is Hyde's "Wet-n-Set.Comes on a roll,snip of what you need,dip it in water,apply over hole unsupported,let it set for 15 t0 30 min and apply hot mud or whatever.this stuff sets up like a body cast.Countless uses.


----------



## boman47k (May 10, 2008)

This hillbilly from Alabama refers to this method as California hot patch.

P.S. Notice the pencil mark to the left of the cutout. The patch has a matching mark on its face to make sure the orientation is correct when I place it in the cutout. This way I do not worry about either being cut square.

Prepare patch, trace around perimeter of patch on the wall, and mark orientation mark on patch and cutout.


----------



## stevesonsiteservices (Jan 24, 2012)

boman47k said:


> This hillbilly from Alabama refers to this method as California hot patch.
> 
> P.S. Notice the pencil mark to the left of the cutout. The patch has a matching mark on its face to make sure the orientation is correct when I place it in the cutout. This way I do not worry about either being cut square.
> 
> Prepare patch, trace around perimeter of patch on the wall, and mark orientation mark on patch and cutout.



When i used to be an ac installer we used to do the same exact thing when patching duct board.


----------



## briancreary (Oct 12, 2010)

*memories*



stevesonsiteservices said:


> When i used to be an ac installer we used to do the same exact thing when patching duct board.


I was just thinking, years ago I was painting a house and the man had a mirror in the bathroom. We decided that it would be easier to remove the mirror rather than tape and cut around it (it looks better too). So we remove the mirror and what do we find? There was a cardboard box with tape around the perimiter (not drywall tape either) painted white. :whistling2: We laughed so hard and took pictures. Apparently the guy had a built-in wall vanity at one time and decided to change it to just a wall mirror, so he hired the last painter 5-7 years earlier to replace it and paint the bathroom sooooo.....that was the last guys solution to a drywall patch. I had never seen anything like it and hopefully never will again. Hilarious.


----------



## briancreary (Oct 12, 2010)

Oh and bowman47k, I have no problem with this patching method or hillbilly's for that matter. I have a self-professed hillbilly from West Virginia on my crew and he's probably my best guy. I'll take a hillbilly over someone with a union mentality anyday. It all comes down to personal responsability.


----------



## boman47k (May 10, 2008)

Heheh, agreed. I was actually typing sort of tonque in cheek.


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Man, this is awesome. Can't wait to add patching to my list of services


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

I actually got a funny story. I was working in a factory office and there in the hallway, there were several square holes like around 3ft x 4ft that needed to be "patched". I can't remember what happened. I think there was a walkway on top and some stuff got dropped on the drywall ceiling.

So, I had to put some studs in and of course cut drywall out and tape, etc.

Anyways, I got done with all the holes, had them all taped off and stuff. I was going home for the night, working nights because the office is too busy during the day. A guy comes in and says, "hey, you sealed off the roof access." Found out I did one too many :blink:


----------



## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Friend of mine was doing an office with quite a few holes to repair from relocated can lights and wall sconces. Said he spent the entire evening and overnite getting it all backed and patched. Showed up the next afternoon to second coat all the patches and found out he had patched all the access holes where the new fire sprinklers were going to be put in. I guess everybody had a good laugh about it.....what else can you do?


----------



## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

Never knew there were so many other names for a "blowout patch".


----------



## briancreary (Oct 12, 2010)

*I know*

Maybe we could combine them all into one super name: 

The CaliforniaHillbillyBlowout


...wait...maybe not


----------



## boman47k (May 10, 2008)

DanielMDollaPainting said:


> Pretty neat. Never seen that done like that. I'll have to try it myself. I always used paint sticks (either one or 5 gal sticks) and screws to make a nailer to back up the patch. Then tape all the seams with paper tape. That way is faster but is it as strong.
> I have done my share of drywall hanging and finishing. When I tape a gaping crack in a corner, I never pack mud in the crack unless it has a day to dry before taping because it always pushes out. I just fack the tape over the crack dry. It looks better when it is done *but there is still a big crack behind it*. Same with the hot patch. I would think the drywall paper might come delaminated from the piece once it is scored klike that. Sometimes I'll just use a piece of paper tape over small holes less than 2 inches and just fake it.


 
When I do a hotpatch, I try to make sure there is as little gap between the patch and the cutout as possible by applying a thick coat of mud around the *inside diameter* of the cutout area as well as the outside diameter. Some may very well fall to the inside, but in theory it helps fill the gap between the cutout and the patch while providing a key to help strengthen the patch.

If the patch is in an area that is likely to get bumped now and then, I may elect to use a piece of wood behind the patch as a precaution.


----------



## crumbsnatchers isd (Feb 28, 2012)

*Hot patching*

Most elects can`t cut a proper patch any way. when you use a real 
sheetrock hot patch, be it ceiling or wall cut it a little undersize mix 
your durabond thick, always backfill your patch or it will blister, put
it in and push it in so it is recessed with the surface so when you 1st
coat it your filling it instead of building it out. Only give it the mud it 
needs. As for big cracks in corners when you mud and 
paper tape it before you wipe it down push your finger
down the center of it then wipe down and doing this
you can mud over it then and it won`t pucker up on 
you!


----------



## stevesonsiteservices (Jan 24, 2012)

It's so funny reading all these stories. I had a landlord that hired a professional painting company to come in and patch a hole in are house that we were renting at the time. You know what he ended up doing was wadded up a bunch of masking tape shoved it in a the hole spackled over it and painted it. Damn was that a professional job that looked great! looked like the wall was taking a crap, Hahahaha I guess in today's society its not about quality anymore but the price you pay. :bangin:


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

stevesonsiteservices said:


> It's so funny reading all these stories. I had a landlord that hired a professional painting company to come in and patch a hole in are house that we were renting at the time. You know what he ended up doing was wadded up a bunch of masking tape shoved it in a the hole spackled over it and painted it. Damn was that a professional job that looked great! looked like the wall was taking a crap, Hahahaha I guess in today's society its not about quality anymore but the price you pay. :bangin:


Lets see, landlord paying a guy... I bet he got what he paid for.


----------



## boman47k (May 10, 2008)

Is it hack like to use a 3/8" or 1/2" hotpatch to repair thicker dw in some cases?


----------



## b2dap1 (Mar 18, 2009)

"Blowout patches" suck on ceilings. Gravity just pulls on them to much. Nothing beats just putting up nailers and cutting a fresh piece of sheetrock. Finish with mesh tape. For high hats just save the holes from the new ones. 

"Blowouts" are great on walls but only for small holes. Anything else requires nailers.


----------



## ROOMINADAY (Mar 20, 2009)

I also use these metal clips instead of a nailer for backing to hold drywall. The have breakway tabs on them and perforated so you can secure them with drywall screws. Expensive but handy in a pinch.

http://www.arichard.com/ui/s_public/en/products_detail.aspx?id=4710


----------

