# Zinsser Poll for covering oil



## HQP2005 (Feb 14, 2012)

I realize that this topic has been beaten to death 1000x's over, but lets be honest, the search option sucks, so humor me and at least vote if youd dont want to comment.

In the past I have normally sanded, wiped with Will Bond, then primed with California's Grip Coat when ever going over oil. But now Im sorta limited in my options.

Which Zinsser roduct do you think is best for adhering to oil-based Paint

1. Cover Stain
2. 123
3. BIN


----------



## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Best- Bin
Better- Cover Stain
Good- 123


----------



## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

^^^^^ What he said ^^^^^

Sent from Android Phone using Paint Talk


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

123 will work ok but I always clean and scuff before applying.

With coverstain, I'm not too worried about sanding first, or cleaning too much unless it's real bad.

BIN is good too but I just don't like the stuff.


----------



## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

TJ Paint said:


> 123 will work ok but I always clean and scuff before applying.
> 
> With coverstain, I'm not too worried about sanding first, or cleaning too much unless it's real bad.
> 
> BIN is good too but I just don't like the stuff.


I agree with everything you said TJ. I'd rather use Cover Stain when brushing, as Bin is not THAT much better than CS. But I usually use Bin when I'm spraying older cabinets. I want that extra adhesion, and it drys so fast I can start my 1st cost the same day.


----------



## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

All of the above.:thumbsup:


----------



## HQP2005 (Feb 14, 2012)

96 views on this thread and only 9 people voted???

Maybe I should do a poll of why poeple viewed this thread but didnt vote

1. trolling
2. wanted to know the answer.

I know I just opend myself up a can of whoop A#@, so Bring It:boxing:

Just dont forget to vote.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Paul. I can smell that just looking at those pics. Nasty.


----------



## DrSmeller (Mar 24, 2012)

I vote for Bin - it's a stain killer and an enamel underbody primer. Somewhat tricky to work with but good stuff.


----------



## TERRY365PAINTER (Jul 26, 2009)

Cover stain ! 
I can't remember the last time I use that stinky 
Stuff .


----------



## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

I'm not voting, but I will offer my perspective.

as been mentioned, creating a good mechanical bond (sanding) is the most important step.

I would prefer a top 100% acrylic over a more brittle shellac for large area coverage. Shellac does have it's advantages for the fast dry characteristics, but after total cure, I fell an acrylic is better. Also, acrylics' nature of additional coats bonding to each other by re-emulsifying the previous coat makes for more durable layering, IMO. Yes, shellac also re-emulsifies itself on subsequent coats, but you would have two coats totally reliant on mechanical bonds - the shellac to the oil and the top coat to the shellac. The fewer mechanical bonds the better.


----------



## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

They all have thier place in society
But for me, Definately cover stain. ( The low odour stuff )
I hate using that shellac and I don't quite trust the acrylic over oil..
I find 123 smells worse than the cover stain!


----------



## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

There isn't a "None" option.


----------



## ltd (Nov 18, 2010)

cover stain , imo it holds top coat better. plus it covers better .also leaves a nice soft stipple when you roll . easy to use plus half the cost:thumbsup:


----------



## Delta Painting (Apr 27, 2010)

Sorry but BIN is not oil based...


----------



## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

Often other things to take into consideration than just bond. Many times I work with redo and clients just can't tolerate the fumes. I now use smart Prime over 123 - bonds just as well fast to apply- no smell- and is an H2o-alkyd hybrid.
Both CS and BIN might have laydown problems brushing.


----------



## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Sorry, I must decline to participate. I prefer UMA by XIM. :yes:


----------



## Itry (Apr 9, 2012)

*trouble with bin?*

Here is what happened. I had a chalky ceiling (probably oil) which I moped and vacuumed. I painted it with Ben Moore and two days later dark brown stains appeared ( cigarette smoke... the lady was a chain smoker). So I covered it in BIN, let that dry and put another coat of BM on it. About 3 months later everything started peeling off down to the plaster. That is my only bad experience involving BIN. Otherwise I use it when called for (water stains, etc.) and have had no adhesion problems even though it dries shiny.
Now I did the same steps as above on all the walls too (those dark brown stains that showed up dripped down the walls like a monster movie) and never had any peeling. Only on the ceiling.


----------



## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

It's happened to me with ceilings treated with BIN peel several years down the road, especially on a textured ceiling. It's like Bill says - the stuff gets crackly, brittle, and probably has the force to rip previous layers off with it. I think sanding down trim, oil priming, and then latex topcoat is most assuradly going to work - but also what I consider to be old school. Wilbond is another great tool as well - but altogether seems a wee bit overkill. I think some of the new waterbornes go directly over oil as long as you just sand it prior, I don't know what a 'scuff' sand is - I am assuming a thorough 100 grit sanding over old work, so it's completely like frosted lenses, remove dust, then paint.


----------



## HQP2005 (Feb 14, 2012)

researchhound said:


> Sorry, I must decline to participate. I prefer UMA by XIM. :yes:


Thanks Dan,

Ive seen XIM metioned several times on PT, but cant find it where i'm at. (im limited to two hardware stores, that both carry BM as thier top shelf paint; otherwise its a 45 minute drive to a paint supplier)

Im gonna see if i cant find the uma


----------



## HQP2005 (Feb 14, 2012)

BM's All-purpose Primer

The back of the can claims it can go over oil.

Can anyone confirm this this?


----------



## Brian C (Oct 8, 2011)

With reading the info on the back of Zinsser 123 it states that you can paint rusty steel with it. I'm a bit nervous putting water based primer onto corroding metal.
What do you guys think ?


----------



## HQP2005 (Feb 14, 2012)

Brian C said:


> With reading the info on the back of Zinsser 123 it states that you can paint rusty steel with it. I'm a bit nervous putting water based primer onto corroding metal.
> What do you guys think ?


I just recently used 123 to cover a rusty corner bead that HO didnt want to pay to have replaced, as well as a metal conduit that had been paionted over several times. I removed what i could from the surface and just covered what was bleeding through the paint with the 123. It hid for the 4 days I was there, long enough for me to get paid.


----------



## NorthEast (Sep 7, 2010)

HQP2005 said:


> 96 views on this thread and only 9 people voted???
> 
> Maybe I should do a poll of why poeple viewed this thread but didnt vote
> 
> ...


I think you mean "lurking".

Trolling requires posting, or saying something malicious to get a rise out of you. 

Trolling Definition



:ninja:


----------



## HQP2005 (Feb 14, 2012)

NorthEast said:


> I think you mean "lurking".
> 
> Trolling requires posting, or saying something malicious to get a rise out of you.
> 
> ...


 
I guess I meant lurkers looking to troll.


----------

