# Painted woodwork



## 208painter (May 7, 2016)

Any tips or tricks for painted woodwork in a house. All new construction. Our general order of operations is prime and paint walls before flooring cabinets trim... first day of trim paint we pull and label all doors for finish at shop. Caulk base jambs and window trim to the wall so we can brush the wall color onto the trim. Next day we caulk the rest of the jamb interiors and windows and start masking. After masking we spackle all the nail holes and sand. Vacuum everything and spray a first coat. We check caulking and spackle and second coat. Pull masking touch up any overspray hand the doors. This is best case scenario. It never seems to work to work out that way. We consistently fall short of budget hours. I’m not sure if we are going about it wrong or what. Any tips would be greatly appreciated


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## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

- Prime. 

- Fill all nail holes and then light sand all, including walls/ceilings (the latter with pole sander).

- Caulk it all. The whole boat.

- Spray the ceilings.


- Spray all trim including doors in place. Skip the whole pull off the doors and drag them to the shop and then drag them back to re-hang. While you are free of drop cloths blow them all out with the trim.

- Skip the masking, except maybe the base (mostly for roller splatter). Cut and roll the walls.

That's my $.02 anyway.


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## 208painter (May 7, 2016)

Priming and painting two coats on walls with a brush and roller seems like a lot of time. Also do you have old hinges to put on doors and spray or do you mask hinges?


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## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

I was assuming a sprayer for primer, ceilings, and trim/doors (since you're taking doors back to the shop. If you're not doing this to spray then it doesn't make any sense, and b/c you're touching up overspray).


The least time-consuming thing on a job is cutting and rolling walls. This is the breeze. The most annoying is ceilings, and the most time consuming, if not spraying, is trim (after all of that masking to boot). Cut walls twice with full dry in between and before the 2X roll. Walls are fast and easy.


As for door hinges, just do the hinge edge by hand and, yes, quick pc of tape around the nubs. spray the faces. Any overspray on the flat parts of the hinges is easily wiped.


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## 208painter (May 7, 2016)

We are spraying everything. We have tried something like that in the past. Prime everything paint trim and then mask it and spray walls. A lot of the texture these days is smooth wall. We had issues with wall paint flashing and building sheen over the trim paint.


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## 208painter (May 7, 2016)

We would end up with halos around all the trim


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## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

I promise that brushing and rolling walls is fast (or will get so after doing more of it) and after 2 coats there should be no halos. Just make sure everything is 100% dry before doing the next stage.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

Why do you take the doors to your shop? Thats where you're losing your ass.

I also say its way faster to do your walls last. 

For high end NC,

I prime everything. 
Finish out the ceilings and closets.
Come back when trim is up. 
Pull and label doors. Mask hinges.
Putty, caulk, mask where needed.
Prime. Spray doors.
Sand primer, and touch up caulk spackle where needed.
Finish Trim.
Cut and roll walls.

I have a MUCH simpler/faster system for low end/tract homes.


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## 208painter (May 7, 2016)

Most of our houses are high end. 500-750k range. The doors generally need prepped and caulked. Are you spraying doors standing up. We have a full booth and spray four doors at a time on door deckers. Two guys can prep caulk and two coat doors in about 10 man hours.


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## 208painter (May 7, 2016)

Also are you guys hand cutting your trim lines? Or pulling lines with tape?


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

208painter said:


> Also are you guys hand cutting your trim lines? Or pulling lines with tape?


For me, it depends on how contrasting the colors are.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

208painter said:


> Most of our houses are high end. 500-750k range. The doors generally need prepped and caulked. Are you spraying doors standing up. We have a full booth and spray four doors at a time on door deckers. Two guys can prep caulk and two coat doors in about 10 man hours.


I do them standing up. I use cheap 3/4" sticks, cut to about 2 1/2' long. Screw the end to the top of the door, and lean the other end against the wall, so you have room to walk around and do both sides. You can set up 3 or 4 in each room. I like this better than the accordian method cuz it only takes one person. Also, you can easily move them around. I will generally lean the door itself against the wall to sand, and caulk, then pull it away and move the stick against the wall to spray.


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## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

208painter said:


> Also are you guys hand cutting your trim lines? Or pulling lines with tape?



I almost always hand cut. But for this to work it does require a) good drywall/carpentry work (not guaranteed even in a $500K+ job), b) nice, clean caulk-in, and c) of course, good brushes. The contrast can also matter as well as the typical "perspective" from which various things will be seen.


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

One of the most interesting things about PT is hearing how everybody has a different system....and how many times ideas you think are "your ideas" are being used by others.

What part of the country are you in that $500,000 is considered high end? That would be average in many markets. High average maybe, but not high end.


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## Mr Smith (Mar 11, 2016)

208painter said:


> We would end up with halos around all the trim


I never allow overspray onto the walls when shooting trim.

I don't do new construction very often but check out how XC Painter does it. (He has another username in here) 

He does all the priming, walls and ceiling first and the trim and doors last. He simply masks around all the baseboards and trim and sprays them out last.

I assume he caulks and primes the trim before the finish coats of durapoxy. You'd at least need to do the caulking before taping the walls.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B3x7vdTB78e/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet


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## 208painter (May 7, 2016)

This is the way we are currently doing it. Yields great results but just seems like it takes way too long


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## 208painter (May 7, 2016)

Lightning boy 65

We are located in north Idaho. We also do a little bit in eastern Washington. I should have rephrased that. Most spec homes are in the 500-750 range. Most of our custom stuff breaks into the million range.


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## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

208painter said:


> This is the way we are currently doing it. Yields great results but just seems like it takes way too long



It will yield great results.


One thing I'd do is just second woodco and rethink the doors. See if you can figure out an "onsite" production model screwing a slab of something to the tops of the doors so they can be leaned and sprayed, spun and moved while wet. Set it up so all doors in the whole house are being done all at once. I'm betting you can get all doors down to about - well, ok, not 10 man hours but a lot less than now.


Of course, this would require some suitable space, so logistically it may not be possible. Personally, I'd be thinking about just spraying them in place whenever possible...a little tape for the hinges.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

With my stick method, you dont need to spin the doors, or move when wet, but unlike the accordian method, you CAN move them when dry if you want. They are about 2.5' to 3' away from the wall. You couldnt do that method if the walls were already done though. Well, you could, but you'd have to drape the room... 

I've done both methods, and I think its WAY easier and faster to do the trim before the walls. Whether you want to mask to prevent halos is up to you. I've never had a problem with halos, as I feather the spray out on the wall a little bit, but I do sometimes mask the walls anyway, even if its just 6" paper. I guess its better safe than sorry...

Here is an example of how I lean my doors. I just set this up to show, btw. You can leave them alone till they dry, and you can move them around when dry. sorry its sideways...

I definitely dont think high end doors should be sprayed in place. For low end, or light doors, I just put cardboard, and stickers in the middle of the floor spray a side, flip, and walk it to the wall on the top of my foot and lean it by the corner. You can do them all in about an hour.


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## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

Woodco said:


> With my stick method, you dont need to spin the doors, or move when wet, but unlike the accordian method, you CAN move them when dry if you want. They are about 2.5' to 3' away from the wall. You couldnt do that method if the walls were already done though. Well, you could, but you'd have to drape the room...
> 
> I've done both methods, and I think its WAY easier and faster to do the trim before the walls. Whether you want to mask to prevent halos is up to you. I've never had a problem with halos, as I feather the spray out on the wall a little bit, but I do sometimes mask the walls anyway, even if its just 6" paper. I guess its better safe than sorry...
> 
> ...



Ah. Long sticks to get to both sides at once. On the occasions that I do this it's because I've got a lot of them to do and limited space. So I basically set up one "production area." The sticks are short for space concerns. Hit a side, spin the door, hit the other side. Then often move it somewhere and lean it to dry, and then move the next piece in. This generally does make it a 2 person operation to help spin/move doors. (Or whatever as I'll do it with any "slab" stuff like when pre-painting shelving or something.) Even if it needs 2 people, it's still really fast if you just set up the logistics right.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

I don't understand why anyone would want to put final coat on thier walls before flooring and trims.
The walls always get banged up. Always. Also, you should be back rolling your walls if your spraying. That is why you see halos and weird patterns. You need to add texture. 
Prime and first coat yes. Final coat on walls last. Always. IMO.


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## 208painter (May 7, 2016)

The drywall around here is trending towards smooth. Most houses are imperfect smooth. I think that is a large cause of the halos. We always back roll walls. Ceilings are a toss up. It depends on the size and lighting and height. I’m not sold on painting doors on the job but I’m curious to try rolling walls last


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

208painter said:


> Lightning boy 65
> 
> We are located in north Idaho. We also do a little bit in eastern Washington. I should have rephrased that. Most spec homes are in the 500-750 range. Most of our custom stuff breaks into the million range.


That's pretty much in line with my area of North Central PA. Outside of some of the incredibly inflated Metro areas or some really depressed areas, the ranges in your reply are probably about right for most areas.


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

We always waited to final coat walls....tried to be the last guy out the door. As Kevyn said, stuff gets banged up to easy. Sprayed everything with the exception of final wall coat. Brush an roll final coat goes pretty fast and ensures all walls are clean.


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## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

Lightningboy65 said:


> We always waited to final coat walls....tried to be the last guy out the door. As Kevyn said, stuff gets banged up to easy. Sprayed everything with the exception of final wall coat. Brush an roll final coat goes pretty fast and ensures all walls are clean.



For those who spray everything (except maybe the final wall coat), I'm wondering how you deal with wall-ceiling line. Does anyone actually tape off ceilings to do walls? Or, first coat on walls first and then tape & drape to do ceilings? (If I didn't brush & roll walls, I'd be inclined to do the latter).


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## Mr Smith (Mar 11, 2016)

Joe67 said:


> For those who spray everything (except maybe the final wall coat), I'm wondering how you deal with wall-ceiling line. Does anyone actually tape off ceilings to do walls? Or, first coat on walls first and then tape & drape to do ceilings? (If I didn't brush & roll walls, I'd be inclined to do the latter).


I would do that too if I was in new construction. Tape off the walls and spray the ceilings,and then roll the walls when the carpet is in. I would still roll the last coat for the walls due to touch-ups. it's much easier to cut in walls near the ceiling if you have a sharp cut line.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Joe67 said:


> For those who spray everything (except maybe the final wall coat), I'm wondering how you deal with wall-ceiling line. Does anyone actually tape off ceilings to do walls? Or, first coat on walls first and then tape & drape to do ceilings? (If I didn't brush & roll walls, I'd be inclined to do the latter).



Walls first, then drop plastic down is typically how its done


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

Joe67 said:


> For those who spray everything (except maybe the final wall coat), I'm wondering how you deal with wall-ceiling line. Does anyone actually tape off ceilings to do walls? Or, first coat on walls first and then tape & drape to do ceilings? (If I didn't brush & roll walls, I'd be inclined to do the latter).


We always did walls first, and mask walls with 12" kraft...since walls would get a final coat, a little over spray on the walls (and it is very little) didn't hurt a thing. And you get an unequaled wall /ceiling line...love that sharp line.

On your final wall/ceiling cut in, you actually stay a hair away from ceiling as not to ruin the sharp line created by the masking.


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## ParamountPaint (Aug 25, 2016)

Spray and backroll all the drywall. Maybe finish the ceilings, depending on the flow of things.

Go somewhere else until trim and doors are up.

Spray and backroll ceilings, if not done previously. Spray trim and doors (in place with hinge mags or set up accordion-style in bonus room or some other useful open space) 

Cut and roll walls, at least once (This depends on the builder and your pay schedule. Sometimes, you can go ahead and do two coats if you have a touch up allowance).

If only one coat on walls, come back towards the end and put the finished coat on.


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## ParamountPaint (Aug 25, 2016)

I wouldn't mask the walls to spray the trim or the ceiling, but many have different schemes that work for them. This is my scheme.


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## Mr Smith (Mar 11, 2016)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Walls first, then drop plastic down is typically how its done


I would back-roll the 2nd wall coat just in case there are touch-ups.

I agree, cutting into ceilings would take forever and you get better lines with tape/spray. Just use the green tape and drop some poly. easy.


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## Respec (Sep 13, 2015)

Woodco said:


> Why do you take the doors to your shop? Thats where you're losing your ass.
> 
> I also say its way faster to do your walls last.
> 
> ...


I use this same exact system with only minor differences. I feel it is easier to remove the door hinges than to mask them. We spray the doors on site by standing them up in a zig zag pattern. If the ceilings are finished, which they usually are at this point, I place large sheets of cardboard across the tops of the doors to prevent overspray from hitting the ceiling. We usually can find some on the jobsite leftover from something that has been installed. I have been considering one of the door stacker systems though to save a little time setting the doors up. Regardless, once they are set up, the doors can be finished lightning fast and overall, it is the fastest way to get it done. We prime tops and bottoms of the doors once they are removed and before we stand them up. We also number each door and frame with a matching number where the hinge go to ensure their is no guesswork reinstalling them. The numbers get covered with a piece of tape so once everything is sprayed, you just pull off the piece of tape and expose the number. They will be covered with paint if you don't cover them. You could label the top or bottom of the door, but doing under the hinge, you don't have to tip the door on end to see the number. The numbers get covered by the hinge once you reinstall the doors. If you just spray the doors in place, then the bottom of the door cannot be finished and this will void some manufacturers warranty. One of my contractors was eternally grateful to me for doing that because he had a moisture issue in a basement on a project and the doors ended up warping. The manufacturer covered it only because we sealed all 6 sides of the door. Spraying the trim first, and then cutting the walls is way faster than doing it in the reverse. No masking necessary except to protect items that are not being painted. If a semi-gloss trim paint is used and adhesion or flashing is a concern, a quick sand around the perimeters of the trim will cure that. I also feel cutting the ceilings is faster than, and potentially better, than masking. It takes practice, but once you have descent cutting skills, you can move fast. I once had an employee who thought the masking route was better. We split the room in half and I cut one side and he masked and painted the other. I was done cutting in almost the time it took him to mask. And then once he unmasked, he had to do touchups and I watched because mine was done and looked great already. So not only was it faster, I didn't have the material cost of all that tape.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

208painter said:


> Also are you guys hand cutting your trim lines? Or pulling lines with tape?


We always tape whenever possible (Frog Tape)- because we want the lines to be perfect. The only time we do not use tape is when the trim and wall colors are the same, or when the paint is still wet. 

Non-painters judge 'quality' of a paint job by how straight the lines are. Doesn't matter how that is achieved, as long as the lines are dead-straight.


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## Mr Smith (Mar 11, 2016)

Holland said:


> We always tape whenever possible (Frog Tape)- because we want the lines to be perfect. The only time we do not use tape is when the trim and wall colors are the same, or when the paint is still wet.
> 
> Non-painters judge 'quality' of a paint job by how straight the lines are. Doesn't matter how that is achieved, as long as the lines are dead-straight.
> 
> https://youtu.be/pjvQFtlNQ-M


I've been taping trim with Frog Tape for about 7-8 years now. I'll never go back to free hand cuts again. 

That being said It can be difficult finding painters who can tape quickly. I can tape an average sized bedroom in less than 15 minutes which includes all the trim and baseboards.Most of the veteran painters resist taping because it makes them feel like rookies again. This is why I like to hire young people who are open to learning.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Mr Smith said:


> I've been taping trim with Frog Tape for about 7-8 years now. I'll never go back to free hand cuts again.
> 
> That being said It can be difficult finding painters who can tape quickly. I can tape an average sized bedroom in less than 15 minutes which includes all the trim and baseboards.Most of the veteran painters resist taping because it makes them feel like rookies again. This is why I like to hire young people who are open to learning.


Yes, I have run into that mentality in the past as well. I also prefer to train new hires. 

We are pretty quick at taping, but I've seen other guys *(on youtube) that are much faster. Somebody has a neat trick of putting tape on wrist and pulling a line FAST! Tried it, but not great at it. 

"Taped" Trim/wall lines looks the best most of the time, imo. 

I also find the second coat of painting walls makes up for the time spent taping, as it is very fast (no cutting).


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

Mr Smith said:


> I've been taping trim with Frog Tape for about 7-8 years now. I'll never go back to free hand cuts again.
> 
> That being said It can be difficult finding painters who can tape quickly. I can tape an average sized bedroom in less than 15 minutes which includes all the trim and baseboards.Most of the veteran painters resist taping because it makes them feel like rookies again. This is why I like to hire young people who are open to learning.


IMO, if your not using a masking tool, big mistake. On stilts, with a masker, an average sized room for the ceiling/wall is about 5 min. to put up a border of 12" kraft.

Same for masking with just tape....Geomask or other tool, reduces amount of time by a ridiculous amount,and does a better job.

Never liked Frog tape, I always stuck with 3M blue,but that's just personal prefference.


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