# High Gloss Walls and Ceilings



## FT1 (Dec 15, 2016)

I'm starting a project next week where the HO wants High Gloss everything. This is a full renovation project where the contractor has paid for a level 5 finish.

This will be my first experience doing this. Does anyone have any helpful advise or things to watch out for that would trip me up in the end? TIA


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Good freeking luck with that! First off it MUST be an actual level 5 finish( if not better)


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## kmp (Jan 30, 2011)

Run away if you can. Strain your paint often, have plenty of clean buckets to roll out of, finish each roller pass in the same direction, preferably down. Expect lots of drywall touch up and re prime before you are done. Hopefully you bid it accordingly. You will be on this project awhile.


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## PNW Painter (Sep 5, 2013)

The quality of your finish will ultimately depend on the quality of the drywall work. You'll likely have to have the drywaller's come back after the first coat to fix any imperfections. Set up a lot of lights and side light those walls as you work. This will help you see any imperfections.

What primer and paint are you using? Are you spraying or rolling?


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## DEK Painting inc. (Dec 31, 2016)

If it where Me , I would first use a primer/sealer let dry and examine real close ! Make sure you use a primer that leaves a sheen so you can spot any imperfections before proceeding to the finish coats ( once applied you will see any imperfection) . And I would spray the finish coats if I could. Priming is going to be critical on this job as the gloss will skin over and any dust left behind from the drywall could bubble out ! Do not skip that part . As far as the finish is going to look will mostly be on the drywall finishers! Glad I only had to deal with this a couple times as I had to skim some areas after priming that the drywall guys refused to come back and fix ! Good Luck !!!!!!


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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

someone should tell them it will look ugly


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

I've never done one myself because I can appreciate the amount of work that goes into one. Done right, they look pretty awesome. Sure hope you priced it right.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Since reading this thread earlier today, this has been rattlin' around in the old noggin.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

High gloss on walls and ceilings is just weird. I'd check in with the customer to make sure that's exactly what they want. Couple of years ago I had a customer who wanted SG on the walls everywhere. I advised egg, she eventually agreed. She was a lawyer and said she expects clients to agree with her pro advice, so she went with mine.

I'd also like to inspect the drywaller's work after priming if things are going to be a level 5. True level 5 has to be perfect and that's time most aren't willing to invest.

Either way, I'd consider running from this one if the customer doesn't consider a lower sheen. That's just a weird option to consider. That being said, i've been able to be choosy lately.


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> I've never done one myself because I can appreciate the amount of work that goes into one. Done right, they look pretty awesome. Sure hope you priced it right.


One of my employees has a studio apartment we are going to do this on. The pic is likely a base of something with a waterborne lacquer on top. Sanded over and over then buffed. There are a few youtube videos of this type of thing. I seem to remember one guy using wax and a buffer.

When we do it, I will post a video.


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

We've done a number of these. The quality of the walls and woodwork needs to be top notch to start with. For gloss we have used Hollandlac, Coronado Rustscat Alkyd, Advance and BM Metal and Wood. We spec 2 prime coats and 2-3 topcoats. Rooms are sealed and ventilation is setup. The air inlet and exhaust are both filtered and it runs during the whole process to keep airborne particulates down during sanding and spraying. Using Ramboard for floors allows for easy vacuuming between processes. Plenty of lights will be needed. Sand, tack and vac all surfaces between every coat. Use Festools for sanding. Also don't allow anyone else in unless the paint is dry. I hope you put in for 4-6x typical pricing.


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## FT1 (Dec 15, 2016)

PNW Painter said:


> The quality of your finish will ultimately depend on the quality of the drywall work. You'll likely have to have the drywaller's come back after the first coat to fix any imperfections. Set up a lot of lights and side light those walls as you work. This will help you see any imperfections.
> 
> What primer and paint are you using? Are you spraying or rolling?
> 
> ...


The current plan is to prime. Drywallers point up. Sand. We do a second primer coat. Sand. Then we move to 2 coats of finish (contractor wants it rolled).
Paint will be S/W Pro Classic Gloss.


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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> I've never done one myself because I can appreciate the amount of work that goes into one. Done right, they look pretty awesome. Sure hope you priced it right.


that looks as good as it ever will and the reflection would drive me nuts


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

FT1 said:


> The current plan is to prime. Drywallers point up. Sand. We do a second primer coat. Sand. Then we move to 2 coats of finish (contractor wants it rolled).
> Paint will be S/W Pro Classic Gloss.


Hand him the roller and wish him good luck. Spraying is the only way I consider doing a job like that. :yes:


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

why? Just.....why? I suppose they want it black as well.


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## TrueColors (Jul 30, 2010)

Prime with guardz or you will be hooped 


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## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

PACman said:


> why? Just.....why? I suppose they want it black as well.


Please tell me, and I hope to God, that this is not a trend? Dear God in heaven, please don't let this be a trend that started on HGTV or I am dead.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Roller cover for level 5*



FT1 said:


> The current plan is to prime. Drywallers point up. Sand. We do a second primer coat. Sand. Then we move to 2 coats of finish (contractor wants it rolled).
> Paint will be S/W Pro Classic Gloss.


Since you will be rolling, I would recommend the Wooster Pro/Doo-Z FTP in a 3/16" nap. As TrueColors said, I would also seal with Gardz before priming (if you are going to prime) also using the 3/16" to roll the Gardz on.

If it were me doing this job, I would put a skim coat of Durabond over the Gardz. That way, I don't worry about trying to find the imperfections. If I put just the right amount of Durabond on it can be easily sanded. The reason I would use Durabond is that it is hard and will not sand out of depressions or dings as easily as mud (or even Easy Sand) and if done right, will give you a surface as smooth as a baby's *** cheek! If I skim coated smoothly enough, I should be able to "sand" it down with an 8" taping knife. I might then, after several hours of drying, put another thin coat of Durabond over everything, then sand smooth. The 2nd coat gives you insurance that you didn't miss anything and fills in the surface and makes it denser and flatter. When applying the second coat of Durabond I would continue to work so as to not run into any fresh Durabond so that by the time I get to what I have done on the second coat, it will be dry already and won't pull away with the wet Durabond I am applying into the dried Durabond. I would do this by skimming a line on one wall (or ceiling) then skim a line on the next wall and so on until by the time I got back to where I started it would be dry, sort of in a round robin style.

After sanding and vacuuming I would go over with a bright light just to make sure I didn't miss anything. Next I would roll 2 coats of Gardz, let dry overnight, then very lightly sand to get little particles off (feel the surface with your hand as you are sanding), wipe down, then start rolling the first coat of paint.

This is what I would do because this is what I know how to do. The other suggestions on this thread are probably a better bet overall, but if you have to roll and not spray, this is what I would do until I learn a better way. If you aren't familiar with using Durabond, take lots of time to practice. I have given away a lot of labor doing skim coating with Durabond, just so I can get practice doing it. I probably should find a school for plastering and really learn to do things right, but there it is. Good luck - and you are going to need it!

futtyos

P.S. you might consider taking the first piece of advice that kmp gave you.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

Bring your a+ game, the right guys, and the right tools and it's just another job that you should make some good $ on. SPRAY EVERYTHING. you can get a color coat on then the gc can push trades through and only apply finish coats after everything is installed. Lots of masking but once you're done, there will be no touching up of trade damage...it'll be dang near impossible. Bid it very high (as PRC said)) as its gonna be super slow and tedious...no room for error. Personally, id load it with at least 3 coats of primer (123 has a nice sheen) and build it as high as possible prior to finish as gloss doesnt tend to build or cover well so tint your primer and go from there...oil on the trim though as you'll need it to be ez to sand until you're ready to finish, then hose it all in 123 or bm fresh start or whatever your preference is there. Good luck! Post pics!! Gawd I hope this isn't a fad...PITA!


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Hand him the roller and wish him good luck. Spraying is the only way I consider doing a job like that. :yes:


I agree. I absolutely hate when a non painter starts to dictate how a job should proceed. 

Doing a job now where a remodeling contactor has been hired to put in a new wall. I am not working for him, we have both been hired separately by the HOs and the only part of the project where our paths are crossing is when I will paint the sides of the new wall when finished. Still, he has been telling the HO what sheens I should be applying throughout the house and most of the time he has been wrong with his advice. We are going to have words very soon.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

I would love to take on a project like that. Over the time I've been on this forum I've seen several similar projects posted about but have never had one come up for me personally. I have done some similar things, but nothing this extreme. Seems like it would be an interesting challenge as long as the price was right. 

I would second most of the advice given, especially the use of Gardz or similar primer. Please let us know how this project goes. 


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Jmayspaint said:


> I would love to take on a project like that. Over the time I've been on this forum I've seen several similar projects posted about but have never had one come up for me personally. I have done some similar things, but nothing this extreme. Seems like it would be an interesting challenge as long as the price was right.
> 
> I would second most of the advice given, especially the use of Gardz or similar primer. Please let us know how this project goes.
> 
> ...


Your a better man than me sir. I know my capabilities and this job would not be one of them, no siree.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

chrisn said:


> Your a better man than me sir. I know my capabilities and this job would not be one of them, no siree.


I'm pretty much in the same boat as you chrisn. While I can appreciate the work and craft that goes into it, there's just easier ways in this trade to make my money. Plus I'd probibally lose my ass on my the first one I did. :vs_shocked:


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Jmayspaint said:


> I would love to take on a project like that. Over the time I've been on this forum I've seen several similar projects posted about but have never had one come up for me personally. I have done some similar things, but nothing this extreme. Seems like it would be an interesting challenge as long as the price was right.
> 
> I would second most of the advice given, especially the use of Gardz or similar primer. Please let us know how this project goes.
> 
> ...


Heck, just up and do it on your next interior project. Afterwards, tell the HOs that they should be honored to have had you do something which normally demands a much higher level of skill and rate of pay. :devil3:


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> I'm pretty much in the same boat as you chrisn. While I can appreciate the work and craft that goes into it, there's just easier ways in this trade to make my money. Plus I'd probibally lose my ass on my the first one I did. :vs_shocked:


That's how I feel about jobs like these. I'd rather take the path of least resistance and make money on an easier job with less headaches. :yes:


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## ParamountPaint (Aug 25, 2016)

I'd give it a whirl, but if it didn't pan out, I wouldn't charge. Continuing education and all.

I think we could pull it off, but I doubt we could do it economically (the first time, at least). I've got a pretty good idea of how to go about it, but it would take some time and cost some money, for sure.

Next one would be easy.


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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

wouldnt touch it for less than 4.25-4.50 sf


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## PremierPaintingMa (Nov 30, 2014)

Vylum said:


> wouldnt touch it for less than 4.25-4.50 sf


:vs_OMG:For this price i wouldn't get out of bed to do this job my friend.:vs_shocked:


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

PremierPaintingMa said:


> :vs_OMG:For this price i wouldn't get out of bed to do this job my friend.:vs_shocked:




Really? Our regular rate for a two coat re-paint on walls only is $.95 a sqft (of wall space) and that is generally pretty profitable. And that's using Aura. 

Considering the OP indicates that the actual level 5 work will be done by someone else, I can see a ballpark $4 price range being legit, if not a little high. 

Maybe we're just talking about different measuring/pricing techniques. Wall space vs floor space makes a big difference. Or maybe I'm still not charging enough 


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Vylum said:


> wouldnt touch it for less than 4.25-4.50 sf




Just to clarify, a sqft of what? 


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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

Jmayspaint said:


> Just to clarify, a sqft of what?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


floor space, not wall. i thought i was high too, guess not


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Vylum said:


> floor space, not wall. i thought i was high too, guess not


This may turn into a popcorn thread yet.:devil3:


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

slinger58 said:


> This may turn into a popcorn thread yet.:devil3:


Oh goodie.


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## PremierPaintingMa (Nov 30, 2014)

Jmayspaint said:


> Really? Our regular rate for a two coat re-paint on walls only is $.95 a sqft (of wall space) and that is generally pretty profitable. And that's using Aura.
> 
> Considering the OP indicates that the actual level 5 work will be done by someone else, I can see a ballpark $4 price range being legit, if not a little high.
> 
> ...


I am talking about wall space, if we talking to do it like the picture was posted bySchmidt & Co. #7 ceiling, walls and trim all in high gloss doing 4 to 5 coats yes $4.00 is very low for the area we work for in MASS.
In MASS in my area. Average Room 20x20x8 NC not a hight gloss we charge about $1600 to $1900 depend on the wood works.


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## PremierPaintingMa (Nov 30, 2014)

Vylum said:


> floor space, not wall. i thought i was high too, guess not


? poor :devil3: 
I thought we normally paint wall and ceiling.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

PremierPaintingMa said:


> ? poor :devil3:
> I thought we normally paint wall and ceiling.


There is no point in trying to make sense of this guy. He is from another world where only he knows what is right and wrong(and he is ALWAYS right and is smarter than everyone else on said other world.:vs_laugh:


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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

chrisn said:


> There is no point in trying to make sense of this guy. He is from another world where only he knows what is right and wrong(and he is ALWAYS right and is smarter than everyone else on said other world.:vs_laugh:


k i dont want to be your trash talk buddy on here. everything i post you have to quote me and rip me apart its really annoying dude. leave me alone you bitter old man


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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

PremierPaintingMa said:


> ? poor :devil3:
> I thought we normally paint wall and ceiling.


where did i say i paint the floor


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Vylum said:


> where did i say i paint the floor


The age old question. WHY do we use a square foot of floor space if that's the only thing we're NOT painting?


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## Tonyg (Dec 9, 2007)

futtyos said:


> Since you will be rolling, I would recommend the Wooster Pro/Doo-Z FTP in a 3/16" nap. As TrueColors said, I would also seal with Gardz before priming (if you are going to prime) also using the 3/16" to roll the Gardz on.


I would think twice about using the 3/16

The last semi-gloss ceiling I did the shorter nap just didn't have enough for the paint to flow and level on the ceiling. I also doubt Gardz would apply easily on the ceiling with a 3/16. Next time, to get less stipple, for the ceiling anyway, I will use a heavier nap - maybe 5/16 or even more. 

Let me correct that - next time it will be sprayed.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Bag of tricks*



Tonyg said:


> I would think twice about using the 3/16
> 
> The last semi-gloss ceiling I did the shorter nap just didn't have enough for the paint to flow and level on the ceiling. I also doubt Gardz would apply easily on the ceiling with a 3/16. Next time, to get less stipple, for the ceiling anyway, I will use a heavier nap - maybe 5/16 or even more.
> 
> Let me correct that - next time it will be sprayed.


You might be right about the nap in regards to both the paint and the Gardz. That is why I would have several different nap covers handy. I just applied Gardz with the 3/16" FTP to a concrete and plaster wall I am trying to skim coat smooth. The wall is not perfectly flat and the 3/16" had trouble in a few areas. The 5/16" Micro Plush would have been better.

That being said, I just rolled a bedroom in this condo. I started out with a 3/8" FTP and could plainly see that the stipple was to pronounced for my GC's liking, so I switched over to the 3/16" for the other walls, then sanded the first wall down the next day and ran the 3/16" over it. GC was happy with that, but still thought that there was too much stipple. I think that it was too dry. As DEK (Florida painter) said in post #34 of "Best roller cover and roller?", higher humidity helps the paint flow out better. Unfortunately, I do not have access to hot water to drag in a couple buckets of it, but, genius that I am, it just popped into my head that I could bring a HUMIDIFIER into the condo and run it while I am painting!

As far as Gardz and stipple, my experience has been that the shorter the nap, the less stipple there is.

Lastly, I think for sure that sealing walls and ceilings with 2 coats of Gardz or some other sealer will help the water stay in the paint and not sink into the surface, thus giving the paint solids a chance to flow out. If I was painting gloss on ceilings and walls I might consider using an oil based sealer/primer as I think that would flow out the best and leave the flattest surface. Gloss oil/alkyd even for the paint. Do they still make any good oil paints?

futtyos


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*How will it look?*



Wildbill7145 said:


> High gloss on walls and ceilings is just weird. I'd check in with the customer to make sure that's exactly what they want. Couple of years ago I had a customer who wanted SG on the walls everywhere. I advised egg, she eventually agreed. She was a lawyer and said she expects clients to agree with her pro advice, so she went with mine.
> 
> I'd also like to inspect the drywaller's work after priming if things are going to be a level 5. True level 5 has to be perfect and that's time most aren't willing to invest.
> 
> Either way, I'd consider running from this one if the customer doesn't consider a lower sheen. That's just a weird option to consider. That being said, i've been able to be choosy lately.


Good advice re: the eggshell. Glad the client took it. Years ago I was doing new construction cleaning for a contractor friend. We were cleaning a new large house. There was about 2000 sq ft of oak flooring that was all in an open area. It was stained black and finished semi or gloss. I was told that the GC had tried to convince the owner not to stain the floor black, but that is what she wanted.

The floor was visibly dusty. We started at one end dust mopping. By the time we got to the other end of the floor, the first part was almost as dusty as when we had started. I found out later that the HO had the GC strip the black floor and go natural. Expensive lesson I would think.

futtyos


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