# Straight lines



## one man show (Nov 18, 2010)

I know this is gonna sound very amature I have painted for living for quite sometime now
Still having trouble getting a razor straight cut in line with dark wall color
Up against white trim board.What's the secret? 
Any suggestions?
I do cut realy straight where wall meets ceiling (seems easier)


----------



## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Just doing it a lot.It's like anything else. It also comes faster to some then others, sometimes the younger you are the faster it comes for some reason.


----------



## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

Experience, the right kind of experiece.
Find someone that does them well and do as they do.

We have two kinds in our company.

1- straight lines
2- Molson Canadian lines


----------



## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

It just comes with experience. A _good brush _also makes all the difference.........


----------



## one man show (Nov 18, 2010)

*straight lines*

Thanks for the info 
I have found a good brush does make all the difference 
Also seems like a sash tool and a smaller brush (say a 2 inch)
Instead of a 3 inch seems to work beter. like I said I can cut straighter 
Around ceilings than around door jambs 
Guess I am verticly challenged 
Am working on finding someone to watch that can cut 
Straight verticly


----------



## hoz (Sep 27, 2010)

You probably already know this:

Wet a stretch 1-2" below the line, then work the paint up to the line. 

Don't watch the brush look ahead of it to the line. 

Don't use your wrist to move the brush, use your body, elbow and shoulder. 

I've seen some painters strike the line with a pencil or the edge of their putty knife, then cut to that. 

By all means, DO NOT us masking tape. Now THAT is amateur.


----------



## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

It's like driving a car,look further down the road(or cut line) don't look right where you are cutting.Works for me!


----------



## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Good advise hoz and aaron! I do all those things without even thinking about it anymore. I'd make a terriable teacher because of it............


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

The brush.


----------



## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

hoz said:


> You probably already know this:
> 
> Wet a stretch 1-2" below the line, then work the paint up to the line.
> 
> ...


I have never heard of wetting the wall, I will have to try this that you speak of. I have seen guys wet rough cedar shingles right before they brushed them.


----------



## BC_Painter (Feb 14, 2010)

johnpaint said:


> I have never heard of wetting the wall, I will have to try this that you speak of. I have seen guys wet rough cedar shingles right before they brushed them.


I'm sure he meant, wet it with PAINT an inch away, then work the paint up the remaining distance to fill it it rather than unloading right to your line 

I do this without even thinking about it


----------



## AztecPainting (Jan 28, 2010)

BC_Painter said:


> I'm sure he meant, wet it with PAINT an inch away, then work the paint up the remaining distance to fill it it rather than unloading right to your line
> 
> I do this without even thinking about it


I agree with BC, plus I'll add a little bit more: You can't go slow, I found out that the slowest you go and on little pieces, the more crooked you do it.

Good luck!


----------



## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

BC_Painter said:


> I'm sure he meant, wet it with PAINT an inch away, then work the paint up the remaining distance to fill it it rather than unloading right to your line
> 
> I do this without even thinking about it


In that case, yeah I be doing that too. I have seen two methods of cutting in, one in which you try to cover in one pass and one in which you strike a straight line that does not cover completely but with the next coat it does. This is what I call connect the dots. This is what I do, but I do have a guy that works for me that tries to cover and make as straight a line a possible the first go around. I really don't care as long as the line turns out straight in the end.


----------



## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

When you are beginning, concentrate on loading the brush properly (each person has their own preference). As the paint flows off, change the angle so that the part of the brush actually laying the line, has that same amount of paint. You need to develop the right "dollop" of paint on the brush. 

Lighting is also very important. If you can see it, you can't cut it.

Are you cutting trim into wall, or the wall into the trim? I always found it easier to cut wall into trim. 

Some folks can cut superbly with the flat of the brush, others with the edge. Some like angled sash, some like straights. 

Keep experimenting to find what you are most comfortable with.

And DO NOT GO SSSSSLLLLOOOOOOOWWWWWLLLYYYY. Your hand will shake. A nice smooth even speed will facilitate.

And don't drink so much coffee.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

johnpaint said:


> In that case, yeah I be doing that too. I have seen two methods of cutting in, one in which you try to cover in one pass and one in which you strike a straight line that does not cover completely but with the next coat it does. This is what I call connect the dots. This is what I do, but I do have a guy that works for me that tries to cover and make as straight a line a possible the first go around. I really don't care as long as the line turns out straight in the end.


For me the single or 2 pass method depends on the paint type or I suppose more specifically the characteristics of the paint. When I first dip the brush in paint, I know immediately which way I'll be cutting-in. I personally think the 2 pass is more productive but is very dependent on paint and the brush.


----------



## ligboozer (Oct 13, 2009)

one man show said:


> I know this is gonna sound very amature I have painted for living for quite sometime now
> Still having trouble getting a razor straight cut in line with dark wall color
> Up against white trim board.What's the secret?
> Any suggestions?
> I do cut realy straight where wall meets ceiling (seems easier)


 
I am assuming you mean up against crown or casement.

Always remember there are very few truely straight lines in a house, it is your job to make them "appear" straight. 

That is why I prefer the two pass method that has been mentioned. First pass to get the line close, then on the second pass adjust it so it is consistent, that way even if if the board is out of plumb, when you step back and look at it the line looks nice and straight.


----------



## one man show (Nov 18, 2010)

Wow! So much realy good advice I have done a lot of what you mentioned here
And I do incorporate most of these techniques and my lines aren't awfull but I have seen some houses other painters have painted and the lines are razor straight and I have heard stories of some painters can move realy fast and realy straight 
OH....... I want to paint like that! 
Now that's painting to make money.
I would like to say to i realy dig this site
By the way I drink decaf not into goin 100mph standing still


----------



## one man show (Nov 18, 2010)

Wow! So much realy good advice I have done a lot of what you mentioned here
And I do incorporate most of these techniques and my lines aren't awfull but I have seen some houses other painters have painted and the lines are razor straight and I have heard stories of some painters can move realy fast and realy straight 
OH....... I want to paint like that! 
Now that's painting to make money.
I would like to say to i realy dig this site
By the way I drink decaf not into goin 100mph standing still


----------



## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

ligboozer said:


> Always remember there are very few truely straight lines in a house, it is you job to make them "appear" straight.


Gou got that...... straight! :thumbsup:


----------



## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

About five years ago I had the chance to do some painting in a house that I worked on my first or second year painting. I specificaly remembered doing the stairway that my dad put me in to cut the wall to the ceiling. 

I was ashamed at my wavy cut...... :whistling2:


----------



## one man show (Nov 18, 2010)

OOOOPS.....
(Snickers)
Guess I pushed the button twice


----------



## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

I have an old purdy 3" flat, thick brush (got it in 94 or 95) that holds more paint than the law allows. I dip it and wipe one edge, then flip it over (the un-wiped edge faceing floor), wipe it about 8", just an 1/8 or so under the lid, then come back and strike the line. I end up with about 10" per pass.
I use it for ceilings with or without crown. I use a wooster , silver-tip 2" flat for "veritcals" doors and windows,, It doesn't hold as much paint or go nearly as far,,, but it will give you that clear line you are looking for( cause it has really stiff bristles). On the second pass, I go to my purdy for the "laying on of paint". If I am painting a really dark color into white trim on verticals, I use a 2" silver-tip sash brush.


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Who called my name? 

Like has been posted the brush and the man, but the brush is really important. A good 3" stiff like the purdy pro extra* sprig* is what I use, it haz the blue hairs. Swear by them and buy by the case, they are easy to clean, and make lazer sharp lines. Pew Pew..

Edit also if you don't know when you go to do final touch ups or cut ins, thin your paint as much as possible but not so much that it won't cover, err I mean hide.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

On those not-so-straight edges... its a hard habit to break by treating the line as straight. In your mind you want to cut straight but in reality the cut wont be. When you see its wavy its best to to do the 2 pass method and stay off the line so you can compensate the ins-and-outs. 

On less than straight edges I'll cut close based on the highest point or edge then move that cut inward. I do better at high points rather than those that sink in next to a casing.

I think the best freehand cuts look best when you dont actually touch the edge but rather cut a freehand straight line 1/16" off the casing. The minute your paint touches the casing, it instantly exposes your uneven cut.


----------



## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

hoz said:


> You probably already know this:
> 
> Wet a stretch 1-2" below the line, then work the paint up to the line.
> 
> ...


HAHA! I am so amateur! Seriously, I do understand what you mean (I too have witnessed the disasterous tape-n-paint performed by oh so many homeowners and hacks) but I gaurantee that I can turn out a bold colored room razor crisp and faster than anyone using tape. 

BTW, not the DIY "blue" tape, nor by striking the edge of the tape with the back of a 5n1 either... I love me some Intertape PG-29 and a tube of white and clear calk and some mad skills.... I land the 7- 10 split... fill the cracks and produce a perfect edge. My method NEVER bleeds under the edge:no:

I guarantee this flies in the face of many old school painters, but this is the way I roll....


----------



## IHATE_HOMEDEPOT (May 27, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> thin your paint as much as possible but not so much that it won't cover, err I mean hide.


Bingo.Most important thing said.


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Sometimes I've found that its almost impossible to get it perfect with one pass, or to do so would actually be not as productive. Many times afterwords, I will just go back and touch up tiny spots to get that perfect edge. This relieves the burden of having to get it perfect on the first pass, and still be producing with efficiency.


----------



## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

If you know it's going to be twice around, i will make the first quick and close, then much easier to fine tune on the second pass.


----------



## AztecPainting (Jan 28, 2010)

Paradigmzz said:


> HAHA! I am so amateur! Seriously, I do understand what you mean (I too have witnessed the disasterous tape-n-paint performed by oh so many homeowners and hacks) but I gaurantee that I can turn out a bold colored room razor crisp and faster than anyone using tape.
> 
> BTW, not the DIY "blue" tape, nor by striking the edge of the tape with the back of a 5n1 either... I love me some Intertape PG-29 and a tube of white and clear calk and some mad skills.... I land the 7- 10 split... fill the cracks and produce a perfect edge. My method NEVER bleeds under the edge:no:
> 
> I guarantee this flies in the face of many old school painters, but this is the way I roll....


My method never bleed either...

I don't need caulking at all, just the 2 colours you need, same process, except that you don't need caulk, I just need the paint.
Paint whatever you need to do then let it dry a little, put whatever kind of masking tape you want, even the one doesn't stick very good you gonna seal it anyway, then with the same colour you just painted before go on top of that tape (you will fill the cracks, etc and all it's going to bleed it's the colour you used) then let it dry a little and then paint whatever colour you need on top, Does that make sense?

I used this process only when I need to do strips on diferent colours on a wall etc, other than that I am awesome making straight lines and cutting in baseboards.


----------



## daren (Jul 5, 2008)

I'm one to make it perfect on the first pass so that the second pass goes fast. And I can hang high of the baseboards. That way I can paint the base just as soon as I clean the room. 

Oh yeah, Just say no to tape.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

TJ Paint said:


> Sometimes I've found that its almost impossible to get it perfect with one pass, or to do so would actually be not as productive. Many times afterwords, I will just go back and touch up tiny spots to get that perfect edge. This relieves the burden of having to get it perfect on the first pass, and still be producing with efficiency.


that just reminded me about how I cut ceiling lines. I'll cut one direction on the first coat and the other direction for the 2nd. It ends up nice and straight that way.


----------



## ligboozer (Oct 13, 2009)

Not for nothing but,

it is important to practice this until you get it. It is a skill, and comes with time, and continual fine honing. You will be tempted to take the tape route but don't do it. Once you have mastered it you will have a real sense of pride, as there are many who rely on tape as opposed to skill.


----------



## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

ligboozer said:


> Not for nothing but,
> 
> it is important to practice this until you get it. It is a skill, and comes with time, and continual fine honing. You will be tempted to take the tape route but don't do it. Once you have mastered it you will have a real sense of pride, as there are many who rely on tape as opposed to skill.



My pride is in my paycheck. My pride is in the perfection of crisp brilliant lines. I cut too and readily agree w Jack to go opposite ways on dual passes of a ceiling if cutting by hand. I alsothink it is important to know multiple ways of painting depending on your market. I am glad I have had the opportunity to learn from MANY teachers and to adapt the skills that work depending on the situation. I can and do say yes to tape. Just not in the way you probably think of doing it


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Paradigmzz said:


> My pride is in my paycheck. My pride is in the perfection of crisp brilliant lines. I cut too and readily agree w Jack to go opposite ways on dual passes of a ceiling if cutting by hand. I alsothink it is important to know multiple ways of painting depending on your market. I am glad I have had the opportunity to learn from MANY teachers and to adapt the skills that work depending on the situation. I can and do say yes to tape. Just not in the way you probably think of doing it


Casings can be cut similar to ceilings in two ways, a) first cut from top to base b) 2nd cut from base to ceiling

One thing I noticed with guys who freehand is habitual form and style, even I do it too. Almost all of mine are identical cuts in the same length-of-run. So to be able to strike a line in a different way requires strategic placement of the load so that its off from your norm. On casings, you can start 12" down from the top because often if you drop-in on casings for your 2nd coat in the same way you did on 1st - you'll likely replicate your 1st cut which might not be the best thing.


----------



## ligboozer (Oct 13, 2009)

Paradigmzz said:


> My pride is in my paycheck. My pride is in the perfection of crisp brilliant lines. I cut too and readily agree w Jack to go opposite ways on dual passes of a ceiling if cutting by hand. I alsothink it is important to know multiple ways of painting depending on your market. I am glad I have had the opportunity to learn from MANY teachers and to adapt the skills that work depending on the situation. I can and do say yes to tape. Just not in the way you probably think of doing it


 

I agree on having a flexiable system, each job has its own picadillos.

I just wanted to make the point to learn to do the cut by hand first, that way you not only add another skill, you will be able to know when tape may be your best option. I have seen many jobsites uneccessarily ringed in blue tape because no one on the crew had learned to cut in without using tape.


----------



## ltd (Nov 18, 2010)

*i bet its better than u think*

all good advice. if your useing good paint it can be thined a little and that line will b reall nice


----------



## mikethebrush (Nov 12, 2010)

why are you cutting the wall into the trim, overlap the wall paint on to the trim and then cut a straight line on the trim


----------



## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

mikethebrush said:


> why are you cutting the wall into the trim, overlap the wall paint on to the trim and then cut a straight line on the trim



I find cutting from a larger surface easier to control load and brush than cutting from the 3/4" casing edge. YMMD


----------



## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

What he said ^^^^^^


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

daArch said:


> I find cutting from a larger surface easier to control load and brush than cutting from the 3/4" casing edge. YMMD


Good point.. very few paint brushes actually allow cutting skinny edges efficiently, this not being one of them. The bigger the footprint, the more stability of the cut. 



Shown below is the Wooster Alpha 4234 3" this brush has one of the largest footprints with its 15/16" thickness but its almost overkill for cutting casing. Its a very stable brush nonetheless.


----------



## mikethebrush (Nov 12, 2010)

daArch said:


> I find cutting from a larger surface easier to control load and brush than cutting from the 3/4" casing edge. YMMD


I was taught to cut in the casing , maybe its a uk thing as every decorator I know cuts the casings to the wall and not the wall to the casings

like onemanshow I find it easy to cut in to ceilings but to strike a straight line down the wall into the casing is harder, and we always do it the other way. some profiled baseboards only have 1/8th edge to the wall and we still cut them in with a 3" brush without difficulty, have a go some time and see how you get on


----------



## one man show (Nov 18, 2010)

I just think its awesome that there is a place where painters can meet
And talk about there trade hone there skills by learning from others that are willing 
To share from their hard earned and hard learned experiances.
From the way it sounds I cut in like most of you just need a little more practice
FYI there are some good videos on YouTube and I learned a cool technique 
When cutting the wall into the casing turn the tip of your sash into the trim slightly, cut your line
With the first eighth of the tip and glide on through like your
Writing your name WOOO!WHOOO!
I did it I did it!!!!!


----------



## hoz (Sep 27, 2010)

I too cut the casing to the wall, was taught that in apprenticeship school and the "old mans" shop I first worked. The shop had all the old decorators in town working there. 

I met one guy in my 30+ years of painting that cut the casings first and then the walls. He said it was faster (and it might have been) but I also suspect he had a hard time cutting casings. He didn't serve an apprenticeship, but came from the "apartment" school of painting.

I also always tried to use the largest brush I could handle for any job, whether it was a 4" shasta or a 3" chisel cut. Those 1.5- 2" angular sash tools are for women.


----------



## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

so i should paint the walls first, then the trim?


----------



## mikethebrush (Nov 12, 2010)

high fibre said:


> so i should paint the walls first, then the trim?


 yes............


----------



## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

mikethebrush said:


> yes............


at the risk of sounding like a newbie, how does this help?
about how far will the fully loaded brush glide along the trim before it needs to be dipped again? i think this is where i am struggling!..


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

^ Some might fine trolling.


----------



## Metro M & L (Jul 21, 2009)

Paradigmzz said:


> HAHA! I am so amateur! Seriously, I do understand what you mean (I too have witnessed the disasterous tape-n-paint performed by oh so many homeowners and hacks) but I gaurantee that I can turn out a bold colored room razor crisp and faster than anyone using tape.
> 
> BTW, not the DIY "blue" tape, nor by striking the edge of the tape with the back of a 5n1 either... I love me some Intertape PG-29 and a tube of white and clear calk and some mad skills.... I land the 7- 10 split... fill the cracks and produce a perfect edge. My method NEVER bleeds under the edge:no:
> 
> I guarantee this flies in the face of many old school painters, but this is the way I roll....


I tried your technique. It is SUPERIOR!!! bOW dOWN BITCHES. :notworthy::notworthy::notworthy:


----------



## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

cant anyone here help me?


----------



## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Just order one of those paint edgers off the infomercials on TV. Thats what the rest of us do, we just wont admit it.  Long kept secret among the pros. None of us can actually cut straight lines.


----------



## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

im not a very good cutter inner yet, but i am absorbing all of what you fellas are saying.


----------



## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Metro M & L said:


> I tried your technique. It is SUPERIOR!!! bOW dOWN BITCHES. :notworthy::notworthy::notworthy:



Thanked ya, even if it was sarcasm. (Hard to tell through a monitor). Seriously, this method I like when using bold colors as any inperfecion in the crispness of a cut line will stand out. There is also a learning curve on when to pull the tape. If you can afford to wait a day, I would. Using the wrong tape can pull the trim paint up, too much calk can be problematic too. Idea is to wipe a THIN bead over the edge of the tape so the calk penetrates any areas the paint would have otherwise bleed into. 

If I have white trim and an off white wall color, I'll be cutting in by hand too.


----------



## mikethebrush (Nov 12, 2010)

hoz said:


> I too cut the casing to the wall, was taught that in apprenticeship school and the "old mans" shop I first worked. The shop had all the old decorators in town working there.
> 
> I met one guy in my 30+ years of painting that cut the casings first and then the walls. He said it was faster (and it might have been) but I also suspect he had a hard time cutting casings. He didn't serve an apprenticeship, but came from the "apartment" school of painting.
> 
> I also always tried to use the largest brush I could handle for any job, whether it was a 4" shasta or a 3" chisel cut. Those 1.5- 2" angular sash tools are for women.


nice to read this Hoz


----------



## mikethebrush (Nov 12, 2010)

how many times you dip depends on the casing but remember to glide the brush on just above where you finished to keep the edge consistant

it takes time and practice to strike a straight line with a brush but persevere as its a skill that saves you time and therefore money, dont bother with tapes etc just practice your brush control, your brush should be an extension of your arm and you should be able to feel the paint flow from the bristle and know how much pressure to apply to put the paint where you want it


----------



## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Talking to the painters on the job today. They were telling me about another common friend who cuts in the casing and then ALSO cuts in the wall. 

*WTF ?*


----------



## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

hoz said:


> I also always tried to use the largest brush I could handle for any job, whether it was a 4" shasta or a 3" chisel cut. Those 1.5- 2" angular sash tools are for women.


Everyone's got an opinion and you're entitled to yours. I think -Why use a sharp rock when a scalpel will do it better? 

I use a 4" for barns, haven't had a 3" in my hand in I don't remember. 
And last time I checked my junk it was hangin.


----------



## ltd (Nov 18, 2010)

*my 2 cents*

i paint all trim first this way sides of door and window can get a nice coat of paint. when doing this i feather slightly on the wall then i can make a super straight cut on the wall. also i think its easyier to touch up trim or u can just wipe off any spatters / where as spatters on a freshly painted flat wall would be a hassel . also im a one man band while im cutting trim im wateing 4 my first coat on ceiling 2 dry ps sometimes ill run first coat on base/ but anyways what every workes 4 u


----------



## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

mikethebrush said:


> how many times you dip depends on the casing but remember to glide the brush on just above where you finished to keep the edge consistant
> 
> it takes time and practice to strike a straight line with a brush but persevere as its a skill that saves you time and therefore money, dont bother with tapes etc just practice your brush control, your brush should be an extension of your arm and you should be able to feel the paint flow from the bristle and know how much pressure to apply to put the paint where you want it


armed with this new information i will go out in to the world and attempt to cut in straight lines,,,,,im not a very good cutter inner, but with this valuable, helpful, and infrormative post, i will,,,i will do my very best.

thanks to each and everyone of you that have contributed to this helpful thread!


----------



## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

daArch said:


> Talking to the painters on the job today. They were telling me about another common friend who cuts in the casing and then ALSO cuts in the wall.
> 
> *WTF ?*


i had a customer get freaky when i didnt cut in both! he thought both sould be cut in neatly! needless to say, i carried on with my plan,,lol.


----------



## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

hoz said:


> I met one guy in my 30+ years of painting that cut the casings first and then the walls. He said it was faster (and it might have been) but I also suspect he had a hard time cutting casings. He didn't serve an apprenticeship, but came from the "apartment" school of painting.
> 
> I also always tried to use the largest brush I could handle for any job, whether it was a 4" shasta or a 3" chisel cut. Those 1.5- 2" angular sash tools are for women.


He said it was faster (and maybe it is). But since you learned as an apprentice, the harder and slower way is better????:whistling2:

If a GIRL with a 2" sash brush can cut a line faster than you,,, she obviously was not an apprentice !!:thumbsup:

We all learn what works for us,,, Just cause others do it another way, doesn't mean that you have all the answers. Cuttin in is a personal thing,, When the lines are straight, we have it.


----------



## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

im so confused, which should i be doing first?
im only here to learn from you pros,,,


----------



## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

HF,

Just use a 3/4 lambswool and roll tight. No need to cut in at all. If the walls are a different color than the the trim and ceiling, just use one of the wooster mini-rollers and roll tight, then the regular roller on the wall. No need to be anymore precise than that.


----------



## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

high fibre said:


> im so confused, which should i be doing first?
> im only here to learn from you pros,,,


I found my new quote. :thumbup:


----------



## bellapaint (Jun 24, 2008)

Honestly it comes down to constant practice to perfect your skills and your craft. It took me 2 years to get to the point where I felt confident. keep practicing


----------



## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

Homestly? New one to me.


----------



## hoz (Sep 27, 2010)

Everyone is a painter, from the guy who painted his sisters house to the girl who wanted to make some money after her old man left, to the kids who picked up their fathers brush and started in on the fence. They all think they can paint. BUT CAN THEY MAKE ME MONEY? That's the painter I want to employ. 

My painters know how to cut sash, casings, ceiling lines and baseboards, not slop them up by going about it ass backwards. 

Standards and practices have been established through generations of working the trade. You might be a "painter" but are you a "journeyman"? Or better yet a "master"?


----------



## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

hoz said:


> Everyone is a painter, from the guy who painted his sisters house to the girl who wanted to make some money after her old man left, to the kids who picked up their fathers brush and started in on the fence. They all think they can paint. BUT CAN THEY MAKE ME MONEY? That's the painter I want to employ.
> 
> My painters know how to cut sash, casings, ceiling lines and baseboards, not slop them up by going about it ass backwards.
> 
> Standards and practices have been established through generations of working the trade. You might be a "painter" but are you a "journeyman"? Or better yet a "master"?


 Great post,,,, as for me,,, I'm still learning!


----------



## Metro M & L (Jul 21, 2009)

painter = people will hire you under the table or to work as an employee

journeyman = people will hire you above board, running your own show.

master = people ask for your professional opinion, pay a premium for your service and will wait on a job just to get you.

There is something to be said for having the guts to attach a given label to yourself. Ultimately it means nothing if others don't attach the same value to your skills.

I'm with Capt Sheetrock; there's always more to learn.


----------



## hoz (Sep 27, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Great post,,,, as for me,,, I'm still learning!


As a cub I was told "if you ain't learning something everyday you might as well quit."


----------



## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Metro M & L said:


> painter = people will hire you under the table or to work as an employee
> 
> journeyman = people will hire you above board, running your own show.
> 
> ...


Yes I have always hated the term Master, for all the workers I have ever met I have never met a master.To me a master would mean you would know without having to think hard what to do with every situation, if not then why would they ever call you a master, besides even if you were a master at any level if you took a year or two off from work would you still be a master when you came back to work?


----------



## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

hoz said:


> As a cub I was told "if you ain't learning something everyday you might as well quit."


Somebody said:



> Do you have 10 years experience...
> or ten 1 year experiences?


----------



## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

most unioin guys i know really suck at painting, but they dress and talk the part.


----------



## hoz (Sep 27, 2010)

high fibre said:


> most unioin guys i know really suck at painting, but they dress and talk the part.


{{{{{Trollbait}}}}}

Shame on you hifi


----------



## daren (Jul 5, 2008)

high fibre said:


> most unioin guys i know really suck at painting, but they dress and talk the part.


Hey bud, I can't believe you would .... Oh nevermind I don't care, I ain't union.:thumbup:


----------



## hoz (Sep 27, 2010)

I have my opinions about union/non union painters. But this is not the thread for it. Start one hifi and I'll join in.


----------



## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

"Everybody stand up and hollar for the Union, we ain't hit a lick all year",,,

Oh heck, that was a counrty song,,, nevermind!


----------



## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

no trolling, just my feelings. im sure there are exceptions.


----------



## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


> that just reminded me about how I cut ceiling lines. I'll cut one direction on the first coat and the other direction for the 2nd. It ends up nice and straight that way.


 What do you think of this guy tip ?  It would take a day to do the cutting on the whole room and still looks like crap http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=NnXxNdUwPDg


----------



## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> About five years ago I had the chance to do some painting in a house that I worked on my first or second year painting. I specificaly remembered doing the stairway that my dad put me in to cut the wall to the ceiling.
> 
> I was ashamed at my wavy cut...... :whistling2:


Good for you ! The first step is admitting you have a problem!:whistling2:


----------



## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> What do you think of this guy tip ?  It would take a day to do the cutting on the whole room and still looks like crap http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=NnXxNdUwPDg


I rely on a steady, well trained hand due to years of on the job experience.

Two of them.

This is obviously to assist with weekend warrior projects.
My advice is to take a sanding sponge with an angle and use it to create a "cheat groove" in the ceiling inside corner.

Paint WILL seep behind the tool's edge unless you wipe it down every time you use it...ugh.

20x the work than just doing by hand, or simply hiring a pro.
Unless sloppy work in your home is not a problem?


----------



## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

I wasn't asking for advice wise. my reply was for entertaining purpose only


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> What do you think of this guy tip ?  It would take a day to do the cutting on the whole room and still looks like crap http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=NnXxNdUwPDg


Why is that guy teaching people how to paint. See what happens when you become a product of your environment?


----------



## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Great post,,,, as for me,,, I'm still learning!


OK fellas, how do I change my username ??!!!! Not my intent to be seen as a "master" aint no such thing in this business. I think I probably learn something every time I go to work.


----------



## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> I wasn't asking for advice wise. my reply was for entertaining purpose only


Yeah, I rarely ask permission before responding to posts.

even yores.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

in reference to post #15 single cuts get done with thinner paints and thicker paints almost always get the two pass cut. Its not uncommon to reduce a thick paint drastically to produce a single cut for speed on 1st coat. On Mondays and Wednesdays I make my 1st coat cut solid and leave the 2nd coat cut as a wash coat.  

My point is... there is typically not a set in stone method used, rather some guidelines as to the type of cut that will be used. Rough or porous edges (bare drywall) typically get cut using 2 pass method and single pass cuts work great on straight lines (edges). The 2 pass method is a 'wetting' agent so-to-speak to make the actual cut glide better. There the secret is out.


----------



## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

****


----------



## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

I instinctually came up with the two pass method on my own 8 years or so ago for cutting the wallpaint above the baseboard cap, as I don't tape baseboard cap, and it was a good method for making sure tons of globby paint not dribble down onto freshly painted baseboard. Don't know why it never occurred to me to carry the technique over to around casings and ceiling/wall interface? I wasn't going for speed when cutting above baseboards - but it did speed things up quite a bit. I've always been a single pass'r, although in reality find myself backbrushing the cuts often in the opposite direction to fill in the 'voids'.


----------



## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Some of you need this.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

one man show said:


> Still having trouble getting a razor straight cut in line with dark wall color
> Up against white trim board. What's the secret?


A year old now but a common question, so to add to your specific situation of cutting in dark to white--you will need a sharp brush preferably with no flagging. Thick paints work to a disadvantage. 

When cutting in a dark color to white trim it helps to have in your head point a) and point b) This area could be as little as 12-inches or 7 feet but it should be an area that is easily obtainable from your current standing position. Focusing on connecting a) with b) would be like drawing a line between the two rather than focusing on the edge. 

While dark colors can certainly be mastered as single definitive cuts, its almost always easier to make it two cuts. Lay a first cut down close as a pre-cut (get a feel for the surface) then come in with a 2nd pass and move in closer. By making your first past close but not accurate--you will be able to determine if you need to pull off the edge or move in-in places due to humps or dips or simply come back around for another pass. Use light but firm pressure.

Something else worth mentioning is that all brushes have a sweet-spot. For some, this is an area in the middle between the width of a brush. For others it can be closer to the tip. The Picasso's sweet-spot on a 2.5" brush is the area between the sharp tip and the middle of the brush. The tip on the Picasso serves no purpose during my length-of-run cuts. The tip is only used to stick into corners or tight areas. 

When the Picasso is positioned correctly during a cut, the back half of the brush is laying the paint down slightly away from the edge while the area mentioned above is moving it over to the edge. Its essentially, because its an oval brush, by design, working like 2 snow plows clearing a path larger than their width.

The sweet-spot on the Picasso is where it points to acid dipped tips on the photo below. Just off center.


----------



## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

And a few lately need this....


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

This should read "Its essentially, because its a TAPERED oval brush, by design, working like 2 snow plows clearing a path larger than their width."

vs a blunt cut brush

Here... better yet study this brush types. Might help understanding brushes seeing various ones in one place. The fat one is a 3" flat blunt cut brush which offers the most stability with cuts. These are used in high production for accuracy. The other are all 2.5" angular. Some tapered, some blunt cut. Notice the thickness between the brushes too. Thinner brush tend to offer less stability but more accuracy.


----------



## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

hey jack...it's sunday, let's unwind eh?


----------



## Carl (Jun 18, 2011)

Why advise people to cut in the first coat crappy? I mean....for me, is much easier to make that first cut in the perfect line. I would really hate to have to come back on the second cut fixing and straightening out lines...maybe is just the way I learned but that would for sure drive me crazy. Once your line is established, the second cut is a breeeze. Your brain is fresher on the first cut anyway because it's early in the day so I always figure it's best to make your lines then, especially if you are doing huge rooms or kitchens with a lot of cut work. I really wonder if this is a matter of confidence...once you have the confidence and experience to make straight lines, you just do it...on the first try.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

WisePainter said:


> hey jack...it's sunday, let's unwind eh?


haha thats why I'm on PT this weekend. I needed a break. I'm getting it all in now because the next 2 months are going to be non-stop again. Actually March is looking kind of full now too.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Carl said:


> Why advise people to cut in the first coat crappy? I mean....for me, is much easier to make that first cut in the perfect line. I would really hate to have to come back on the second cut fixing and straightening out lines...maybe is just the way I learned but that would for sure drive me crazy. Once your line is established, the second cut is a breeeze. Your brain is fresher on the first cut anyway because it's early in the day so I always figure it's best to make your lines then, especially if you are doing huge rooms or kitchens with a lot of cut work. I really wonder if this is a matter of confidence...once you have the confidence and experience to make straight lines, you just do it...on the first try.


Like I said, it depends. Lets say you have 9 colors on a house, 2 coat plan. The first thing I do is roll. Roll, roll, roll. Then go back and cut those 9 colors. The choice to go weak on the 1st coat is a timing issue.

Another scenario would be cutting over semi-gloss overspray from spraying trim without the help of a pre-roll. This scenario would be 2 cuts, 1 roll. Even tho sanded, its still slick stuff to cut over. So those get a blow-by just to get flat or e.g. over it to calm down the actual cut for accuracy. 

My situation is a bit unique at making 7' cuts in 7 secs or running ceiling lines at up to 20' per minute. I have a bit more flexibility with what I feel like doing knowing what I need to get done in a set amount of time to keep it all moving. If I cut-in first for each of those 9 colors before the roll, that would hold up the job and likely push it over another day. Schedule won't allow that so... 

Also, by rolling first, the roller allows me to cover up all but 1-inch of a previous color leaving virtually nothing to cut.


----------



## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

*Tape*

This only works if you re-caulk completely and paint the trim first.

Use 3M blue painters tape. Use one continuous piece for the length of the wall. Use a rounded putty knife and press the tape into the caulk line after the trim paint has had 24 hrs to dry. 

Doesn't work with cheap trim paint either.

I cut a pretty good line normally...however with really dark colors this looks very nice.


----------



## alertchief (Nov 12, 2009)

Jack could you elaborate a little more why you like that Picasso brush! I have never seen them here in Oregon! I use Purdy clear cut brushes on most inside work. Never had a oval brush!


----------



## playedout6 (Apr 27, 2009)

A lot of the time our cuts are at the mercy of the carpenters or the crackfiller . It usually is hard enough to get it perfect at the best of times but even more so following a poor tradesman ! When it comes down to ceiling cuts I always use both my hands equally and I use the 2 pass method most times .The first pass I distribute the paint and on the 2nd I feather it out . Sometimes on darker colors I use the short side of the 3 inch sash to give a super straight cut but you have to be really careful of it dripping off the brush if it is overloaded . 

I like to free hand the base and trim and again as others have relayed...get a good sash brush and take your time and eventually the speed will come . I have been cutting in for 30 + years and there are some days it just does not flow well no matter how good you are .

LOL...I have no idea how many feet per minute I can do, but I expect that I could hold my own with most....as far as I'm concerned...it would have to vary depending on the conditions and paint and of course the light and we all know that a lot of times we don't always have the best of the conditions and you make the best of what you have . I have neve used stilts...but I think it would make me faster . I mostly use a lightweight 2 stepper from Home depot . I like the Nour and Pintar brushes and I'm not sure if they have those in the US ? 

Have a great evening folks...


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

alertchief said:


> Jack could you elaborate a little more why you like that Picasso brush! I have never seen them here in Oregon! I use Purdy clear cut brushes on most inside work. Never had a oval brush!


Clearcut? Perfect. Here is a real benchmark for you against the Picasso.

Cutting-in 1 mile or (5280 feet) takes one brush 6.5 hrs. Cutting-in with another brush of the same size was only capable of cutting-in 1884 feet in 6.5 hrs.

While this benchmark was over a specific type of cut, the Picasso by no means set a record here compared to an Alpha 3" flat wall brush which remains monster of production. (seen below) but it did set our record in the 2.5" category. In this clip that is BM Super Spec flat over itself. The true production capabilities of the Alpha wall brush is not really reflected in this video but you get the idea. This is a mere 5' or so in 8 seconds. If it were possible to walk-off all your cuts. According to this video that would be 20' in about 30 seconds. 






Having a brush that allows effortless fast cuts opens up other possibilities within the (timing) of paint projects throughout the day like I mentioned in #95. Using the above benchmark, its clear that job would take much longer otherwise. So much longer because of a simple paint brush. Paint, caulk, filler, primers etc all provide the same massive impact on production. Some products eliminate traditional steps you might currently use today.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

For those really into this stuff here are the details to that video.


----------



## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

I must say last week I painted a dark blue dining room with chair rail, 5 windows, two open door casings and crown in less than a hour per coat with the picasso. Crisp sharp lines, loaded nicely and spread very quickly. I was VERY impressed.


----------



## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Though those brushes are great for flat walls they don't cut the mustard here in Colorado. Most houses have knockdown texture. Purdy chinex 3 inch sash or Corona 3 inch sash are best.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

NEPS.US said:


> I must say last week I painted a dark blue dining room with chair rail, 5 windows, two open door casings and crown in less than a hour per coat with the picasso. Crisp sharp lines, loaded nicely and spread very quickly. I was VERY impressed.


Thats fast NEPS. Chair typically = times 2 on labor. Five windows too. :thumbsup:


----------



## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


> Thats fast NEPS. Chair typically = times 2 on labor. Five windows too. :thumbsup:


Top half only.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

NEPS.US said:


> Top half only.


Yeah but you are essentially painting a full room even though it stops 5' at the chair. That bottom 3' is irrelevant, you still painted that upper room in good time. That sounds like a lot of cutting-in.


----------



## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> He said it was faster (and maybe it is). But since you learned as an apprentice, the harder and slower way is better????:whistling2:
> 
> If a GIRL with a 2" sash brush can cut a line faster than you,,, she obviously was not an apprentice !!:thumbsup:
> 
> We all learn what works for us,,, Just cause others do it another way, doesn't mean that you have all the answers. Cuttin in is a personal thing,, When the lines are straight, we have it.


Right on. no point gettin all cranky over technique. If you have one that works for you personally you've got er beat.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Here is another oval proform brush for those who must have the coolest tools in their bag. This one is STIFF from the Contractor Series. Stiff is a bit stiff for general use. I'd recommend the regular one for general painting. It's a mover.



This photo below is the same brush but the softer version. If I remember correctly this is a 30n/70p blend.


----------



## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

jack pauhl said:


> Here is another oval proform brush for those who must have the coolest tools in their bag. This one is STIFF from the Contractor Series. Stiff is a bit stiff for general use. I'd recommend the regular one for general painting. It's a mover.
> 
> 
> 
> This photo below is the same brush but the softer version. If I remember correctly this is a 30n/70p blend.


and clever too!:yes:


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Scotiadawg said:


> and clever too!:yes:


Hard to demonstrate responsiveness of a brush in a photo or video. Sticking my fingers through while the brush forms around them shows how incredibly responsive this brush is. This simply means the filaments all play well together without resistance. Cuts are smooth, transitions and curves are effortless and feathering is a breeze.


----------



## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


> Here is another oval proform brush for those who must have the coolest tools in their bag. This one is STIFF from the Contractor Series. Stiff is a bit stiff for general use. I'd recommend the regular one for general painting. It's a mover.
> 
> 
> 
> This photo below is the same brush but the softer version. If I remember correctly this is a 30n/70p blend.


I really really really want that brush :clap: where and how much ?


----------



## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

The "Stiff" line is great too.


----------



## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

I bought mine from here

Pat


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

PatsPainting said:


> I bought mine from here
> 
> Pat


Yes, same place. Painter I worked with last week asked me to buy him a 6 pack of the Picasso 2.5" angular. Seems when these guys spend a few minutes with that brush they end up wanting one. I should stock them here for the locals because they are nowhere to be found for walk-ins.


----------



## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

jack pauhl said:


> Yes, same place. Painter I worked with last week asked me to buy him a 6 pack of the Picasso 2.5" angular. Seems when these guys spend a few minutes with that brush they end up wanting one. I should stock them here for the locals because they are nowhere to be found for walk-ins.


and such a nice fella too ! You can buy us all some new brushes if you want.:whistling2:


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

psst, hey man come here.... wanna buy a brush? I'll open up my trench coat in the alley with a bunch of Picassos lining the inside. I'll send them off in a brown bag wrinkled around the handle.


----------



## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

jack pauhl said:


> psst, hey man come here.... wanna buy a brush? I'll open up my trench coat in the alley with a bunch of Picassos lining the inside. I'll send them off in a brown bag wrinkled around the handle.


ah, I guess I'll pass on that offer :no:. Tut Tut Tut


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Scotiadawg said:


> ah, I guess I'll pass on that offer :no:. Tut Tut Tut


Which brushes are popular in your area?


----------



## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

jack pauhl said:


> Which brushes are popular in your area?


I'll tell you, just promise not to open that trench coat We actually don't have a whole lot to choose from locally. Purdys are available, Wooster, bunch of crappy stuff from BM and Dynamic. I tried the purdys and woosters and preferred the woosters over the purdy. However I still return to the Signature Line sold by AAAAAWK Home Hardware. Beautiful cut brush. BTW I assume we're just talking latex brushes here.


----------



## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Corona.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Scotiadawg said:


> I'll tell you, just promise not to open that trench coat We actually don't have a whole lot to choose from locally. Purdys are available, Wooster, bunch of crappy stuff from BM and Dynamic. I tried the purdys and woosters and preferred the woosters over the purdy. However I still return to the Signature Line sold by AAAAAWK Home Hardware. Beautiful cut brush. BTW I assume we're just talking latex brushes here.


Yes latex. Never heard of Dynamic.


----------



## crazyson2001 (Jan 3, 2010)

jack pauhl said:


> psst, hey man come here.... wanna buy a brush? I'll open up my trench coat in the alley with a bunch of Picassos lining the inside. I'll send them off in a brown bag wrinkled around the handle.


Haha! Ain't that the truth. No one around me carries the Picasso either, so I'm forced to order online. Would rather buy locally but I can understand why the PS is reluctant to bring in a new item that only one guy (me) is asking for. Too bad too, because once other painters started using them I'm sure they would sell.

Good to see you back JP. Livens things up a bit around here.


----------



## playedout6 (Apr 27, 2009)

Scotiadawg said:


> I'll tell you, just promise not to open that trench coat We actually don't have a whole lot to choose from locally. Purdys are available, Wooster, bunch of crappy stuff from BM and Dynamic. I tried the purdys and woosters and preferred the woosters over the purdy. However I still return to the Signature Line sold by AAAAAWK Home Hardware. Beautiful cut brush. BTW I assume we're just talking latex brushes here.


 Scotiadawg...have you ever tried these brushes ? Check out the link below here . I have used those HH brushes you mentioned and I just find them a bit stiff in all honesty and a bit thick on the tip . I have had great luck with the Nour but every now and then I get one where the hairs start to pull out after so many washings . Usually the rep takes them back and replaces them for me . These Nour brushes should be available in your area . I've been using them and the Pintars for years now .I also cannot use the Simms brushes and I heard that KENT is also dropping the Simms line .

http://www.nour.com/viewbrush.php?brand=14&subcat=S&cat=brushes&details=1


----------



## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

playedout6 said:


> Scotiadawg...have you ever tried these brushes ? Check out the link below here . I have used those HH brushes you mentioned and I just find them a bit stiff in all honesty and a bit thick on the tip . I have had great luck with the Nour but every now and then I get one where the hairs start to pull out after so many washings . Usually the rep takes them back and replaces them for me . These Nour brushes should be available in your area . I've been using them and the Pintars for years now .I also cannot use the Simms brushes and I heard that KENT is also dropping the Simms line .
> 
> http://www.nour.com/viewbrush.php?brand=14&subcat=S&cat=brushes&details=1


thanks, I've used the Noir and just don't care for the way they knife out - latex that is. I do like them for oil tho.:thumbsup:


----------



## propainterJ (Jan 31, 2011)

If cutting around a door jamb that is painted white I like to mask the edge of the jamb,then apply a thin,thin bead of caulk,wipe it really good,paint it quickly,pull tape and there you go,straight as an arrow.

You have to pull the tape immediately,and you have to pant the caulking immediately after you put it on,you cant go real fast,cant caulk a whole housefull then paint it all,you gotta take it one door casing at a time.

Amatuer?Maybe,but the lines sure as hell dont look amateurish.

Ceilings to wall transitions,the best lines I've ever done came from taping on or the other and spraying with a small tip,just cant beat it with a brush,my hats off to anyone that can brush as straight a line as I can get using tape,more power to you,be proud,charge an arm and a leg


----------



## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

Metro M & L said:


> I tried your technique. It is SUPERIOR!!! bOW dOWN BITCHES. :notworthy::notworthy::notworthy:


Wouldn't you see the caulk build up by the baseboard? I guess you can wipe it with a damp rag as it would prob mess up the tape.


----------



## ARC (Nov 30, 2011)

Up against trim baseboards, I sometimes find its better to cut the baseboard last. This depends on the style and condition of the baseboard though. Easier if it has a large and smooth upper face.

Basically its allowing gravity to work for you instead of against. Using a 2" angle brush is great for this, and you just cut along the top and sort of drag the paint along the (caulked) edge.

I attached a pic of this technique (i think), it can be made to look really great when you need sweet lines with dark colours!


----------



## ROOMINADAY (Mar 20, 2009)

ARC said:


> Up against trim baseboards, I sometimes find its better to cut the baseboard last. This depends on the style and condition of the baseboard though. Easier if it has a large and smooth upper face.
> 
> Basically its allowing gravity to work for you instead of against. Using a 2" angle brush is great for this, and you just cut along the top and sort of drag the paint along the (caulked) edge.
> 
> I attached a pic of this technique (i think), it can be made to look really great when you need sweet lines with dark colours!


Just paint the tape with the BB colour. It dries fast.


----------



## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Or just learn how to use a brush.


----------



## ROOMINADAY (Mar 20, 2009)

True...caulking tape?


----------



## pinchegordo (Jul 3, 2011)

propainterJ said:


> If cutting around a door jamb that is painted white I like to mask the edge of the jamb,then apply a thin,thin bead of caulk,wipe it really good,paint it quickly,pull tape and there you go,straight as an arrow.
> 
> You have to pull the tape immediately,and you have to pant the caulking immediately after you put it on,you cant go real fast,cant caulk a whole housefull then paint it all,you gotta take it one door casing at a time.
> 
> ...


Always tape caulk my lines


----------



## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

I work only for the blind, they love my lines.


----------



## promax (Jan 30, 2011)

another trick for that is to do your two cuts and get as close as you can, then when it is dry run a thin bead of caulk on the top of all trim, then before it drys run the side of your finger or a damp rag over it , if you stay consistent with the bead as far as amount, when you run your finger over it will flatten out straighter than any cut line. the caulk must match the trim paint or be very close. this works very well on trim that is coming out a little from the wall as they do on most repaints and makes it look very uniform. as far as the painting it just takes time and a good brush, i use larger brushes for this they seem to have more control and I can run a longer stroke. 3 in angle vegas from corona. also i prefer to move counter clockwise around the room because im right handed and i can post my other hand on the ground for stability and its not in the way. good luck


----------



## alertchief (Nov 12, 2009)

I have found that often times the top of the homeowners white moulding is looking a little rough from vacuum cords or just dust build up. I like to have the top of the moulding look nice and new against my new paint job so I use PPG Break-through (very fast dry water based) and a small brush and put a quick coat of it in white just on the top of the moulding (the color is usually close enough to get away with on tope edge). This cleans things up, then I use yellow frog tape and tape the top edge of the recently painted trim. With this product you can almost tape when you are back around the room. After putting the frog tape on I go back and put a very light film of Break-through over the edge of the tape. This stuff dries so fast you can move around the room really quick. Then after painting you pull off and get perfect lines. I like the tape also on the base moulding in 1 1/2 inch because it also shields the moulding from any splatter or oops that may occur. Its a nice quick way that can be done without having to do a room in sections or small pieces like the caulk method and you can pull the tape when your ready.

This is just an alternative to brushing which I often do but I really like this method for the one reason it cleans up the top edges of the moulding and is quick given how fast the PPG product dries. One gallon of this lasts forever. Its also a great product to have around if you need to spray a door or two!


----------



## eric113 (Aug 18, 2011)

one man show said:


> I know this is gonna sound very amature I have painted for living for quite sometime now
> Still having trouble getting a razor straight cut in line with dark wall color
> Up against white trim board.What's the secret?
> Any suggestions?
> I do cut realy straight where wall meets ceiling (seems easier)


I'm sure this has already been said here- practice, and a good quality brush. Do they sell Corona's in your area?

Take heart. I was an oaf with a brush when I first started. It will come to you.


----------



## jimmyoverspray (Feb 3, 2012)

If the paint is to thick thin it down you will cut better:thumbup:


----------



## TNpainter (Dec 7, 2011)

Free hand if u can't get that flexible putty knife with rounded edges and damp rag razor sharp line every time once u figure it out my lines are unprecedented either way practice practice practice get a 2/2 sheet of drywall from depot nail a peice of trim can't afford to practice on the clock. A good clean bead of caulk is a must overlap trim paint on the wall 1/8" then cut wall paint back to trim trust me I'm know in my area for my lines


----------



## sincere painter (Apr 14, 2010)

BC_Painter said:


> I'm sure he meant, wet it with PAINT an inch away, then work the paint up the remaining distance to fill it it rather than unloading right to your line
> 
> I do this without even thinking about it


If you don't "wet the wall", you end up pushing too much paint. I call it chasing the bead... like a tiny paint wave, ugh.


----------



## sincere painter (Apr 14, 2010)

Also, if you're feelin' a little froggy about a crisp line OR the contrast in color is more than midtone to white trim, why not pull out some frog tape and get it over with minimal expletives *&!!*? poof


----------



## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

Good brush and floetrol


----------



## TNpainter (Dec 7, 2011)

To be a pro painter site there's a lot of amatuer taping going on hahahahahahhaha you guys are cute


----------



## HSpencer (Jan 21, 2012)

I did a laundry with wallpaper border that they wanted to keep up. I got a lot of practice cutting to the bottom of the border. It came out really good, and I used a 1- 1/2 angle Purdy and a lot of deep breaths.
Let's face it. Sometimes you can and sometimes it goes to crap.


----------



## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

WTF ???? With all the same posts albrecht ?????


----------



## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

Kinda funny (in a way)

I noticed he/she didn't include the cert. number under their EPA logo. (that's illegal, and I'm reporting it)


----------



## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

BTW

NICE JOB MODS!!

that was quite a mess...you guys cleaned it up pretty darn fast.:thumbsup:


----------



## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

Steve Richards said:


> BTW
> 
> NICE JOB MODS!!
> 
> that was quite a mess...you guys cleaned it up pretty darn fast.:thumbsup:


I missed it ! What just happened?!


----------



## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

Albrect went a little crazy.

(I'm sure he's better now)


----------



## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

Steve Richards said:


> Albrect went a little crazy.
> 
> (I'm sure he's better now)


Damn meds will do that everytime! Right Bill ?:whistling2:


----------



## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Problem is, we can ban a spammer, but he doesn't log off, he can keep spamming. 

I even went so far as to deny him access to ALL forums. We need a way to log someone off so they can't keep pooping here.


----------



## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

daArch said:


> Problem is, we can ban a spammer, but he doesn't log off, he can keep spamming.
> 
> I even went so far as to deny him access to ALL forums. We need a way to log someone off so they can't keep pooping here.


I didn't realize that.

Maybe you shouldn't let "them" know it either?


----------



## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

Steve Richards said:


> I didn't realize that.
> 
> Maybe you shouldn't let "them" know it either?


Um, I think _that_ train done left!


----------



## rliddle923 (Jan 31, 2012)

*Brush*

I agree that it takes a great deal of time to master the art but I also agree that it has a lot to do with the brush. I would tell you what brush is great but I have been getting flack for mentioning products on this site. Good luck


----------



## danpaints (Feb 16, 2012)

Back in High school I took one year of art (Painting.) The teacher taught us how to hold the pencil. and how to freehand a straight line... There was a flow and lucidy in the arm not the wrist. Painting walls can be considered an art. Your eyes should be ahead of the line your are painting. your eyes lead the line not the line leading the eyes. If you are too short sighted you are slow and jagged. if you are too far sighted you are off the track. I am often 2 to three inches in front of my brush. Cutting in is an art. Being familiar with your product is helpful. Never be satisfied with the first cut. It get to be like speeding, you begin to think you can get away with it. Your second coat will drastically improve the first coat. That can help you from overcommitment to the edge on the first time through. 

If you want to see your productivity jump start cutting in with both hands. Find your own system to navigate corners,the ebb and flow of loading and unloading paint on and off your brush I load my brush differently on when cutting to base molding than the cap line and even differently on corners. When I load SW it is a general dop slap slap. when I load PPG dop slap slap slap. You can do it without looking. I use a specific brush that loads well for me. I use a specific paint pot. Particular about my rollers and covers. All these things lend to your efficiency. Not only are you straight and well done. but your twice as fast as "Yo YO"

Last key is you got to love it. Seek the next level. But you got to love the straight line. Not love the fact that you can push one. But really enjoy doing it. I rarely talk when I paint. My wife and helpers hate it. Painting is enough for me. No radio. no voices. Calls?, leave a message. I'm painting. It's enough.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Freehand cuts are without conscience thought, an extension of you, but they do not start out that way. Its similar to gunman shooting moving targets. I was able to put into words how I perform my cuts by watching my own videos of cutting-in techniques. I found it was more difficult to explain the process without actually seeing a play-by-play because they are performed without conscience thought.


----------



## lmvp17 (May 15, 2010)

BrushJockey said:


> If you know it's going to be twice around, i will make the first quick and close, then much easier to fine tune on the second pass.


I get fine tuned on the first run. Second is quick and close. Makes me feel like I'm down the home stretch :thumbup:


----------



## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

i usually load my brush up with paint, i cut with a 3" angled wooster or purdy..ill bring in in close on the first pass and then come back and take it home. Im a big fan of the "brush wiggle", dont really know how to describe it other than a slight quick back and forth motion of the wrist. this helps load the paint into the edge of the bristles. you want to cut with the paint, not the brush. after i complete my cut i make one more pass using the wide part of the brush to make sure i have a good even coat to roll too with no streaks. Ive gotten to a point where im better the quicker i tend to go, my lines are steadier..offsets the slight tremor in my hands(no one has perfectly steady hands).


----------



## TERRY365PAINTER (Jul 26, 2009)

Read the book zen and the art of archery . 
Good book! brings more into just the act of 
Just painting . It's meditation . Idk I should be in bed . Oops


----------



## the paintman (Feb 3, 2012)

jack pauhl said:


> On those not-so-straight edges... its a hard habit to break by treating the line as straight. In your mind you want to cut straight but in reality the cut wont be. When you see its wavy its best to to do the 2 pass method and stay off the line so you can compensate the ins-and-outs.
> 
> On less than straight edges I'll cut close based on the highest point or edge then move that cut inward. I do better at high points rather than those that sink in next to a casing.
> 
> I think the best freehand cuts look best when you dont actually touch the edge but rather cut a freehand straight line 1/16" off the casing. The minute your paint touches the casing, it instantly exposes your uneven cut.


Not to say that the other comments are not all good. But i was really waiting to see if any one posted this. I learned 30 years ago to cut a cieling an 1/8 (1/16 even better nowadays Paul lol) short to make it look straight from 2 steps back. Like the man siad as soon as you hit the cieling or trim its time to go to the house. I have spent many a day going back on the "other side" knocking down the high spots. Actually I love doing it. Its like the "creme de la creme". I love seeing the look on thier faces when the "owner" makes what they thought was straigt even better. The "Damn he really knows how to paint look. I thought all he did was ride around and bulls..t"
What most painters fail to consider is the customer is looking from afar. Not from 18 inches away like we paint. I try to teach my lead men to inspect the work with a "walk". 
Also to the original poster. And not mentioned yet at this point in the thread. The caulk job. I always cut my tube smaller than anyone else. IF its a bulbous caulk line next to trim. Forget about it. It takes a real pro to cut a straight line on some of the FAT beads I have seen. Make it eaiser by caulking the tightest bead you can with the best no shrink caulk you can buy.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

thepaintman, here is my threshold for where I draw the line. This line looks taped as the result of it.



In this next photo another paint contractor cut this crown. You can see my cut coming in from the left over it. Too much off the trim can also look bad.


----------



## matt19422 (Oct 2, 2009)

1. Getting lines to "look" perfect will also depend on how well the person before finished the work...(caulking) (drywall taping) (ect)

2. I like to say to those who want to know how we get the sharp lines... "that there is no such thing as perfection" If you follow the lines close enough you will see that a painter will ride a ceiling a hair to give the illusion that the walls lines are perfectly straight.

3. Lighter wall color will always be more forgiving that deeper colors that show the contrast between trim & ceiling lines


----------



## wills fresh coat (Nov 17, 2011)

one thing i have learned over the years is if i have a room that has crown in it i will finish the ceiling, paint all the crown then cut the walls to the crown. alot of painters try to paint the crown by looking upside down and cutting the under side lip, which is super hard to do no matter how good your lines are
another tip is if you use a paint that is high in viscosity you may want to add a little water to it,its flows much better and you will be able to run a longer cut line


----------



## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

wills fresh coat said:


> one thing i have learned over the years is if i have a room that has crown in it i will finish the ceiling, paint all the crown then cut the walls to the crown. alot of painters try to paint the crown by looking upside down and cutting the under side lip, which is super hard to do no matter how good your lines are
> another tip is if you use a paint that is high in viscosity you may want to add a little water to it,its flows much better and you will be able to run a longer cut line


you actually see alot of painters cut the crown to the wall and not the wall to the crown:blink:?


----------



## wills fresh coat (Nov 17, 2011)

StripandCaulk said:


> you actually see alot of painters cut the crown to the wall and not the wall to the crown:blink:?


thats what i was trying to say......i guess we all started out doing things that we laugh at now


----------



## the paintman (Feb 3, 2012)

jack pauhl said:


> thepaintman, here is my threshold for where I draw the line. This line looks taped as the result of it.
> 
> 
> 
> In this next photo another paint contractor cut this crown. You can see my cut coming in from the left over it. Too much off the trim can also look bad.


Paul I don't know if those lines can be topped. That is some high contrast razor lines for sure. Udaman. I just got asked to bid a 21,000sf house in the orlando area if your interested. Im to busy making money on commercial work to attend to those kind of jobs and details right now. LOL!! Not bragging just saying....


----------



## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Glad to see this thread being raised from the dead and garnishing so much interest and thoughtful explanations.

I see so many bad cuts it's disheartening. On so many high end jobs, where the HO raves about "my painter", I see cuts that I coulda done better my first week with a brush in my hand (who can forget their first week ) 

Real happy to see the level of care here on PT is what I've come to expect.

BTW, when papering, some times the cuts have to be "fat" to look straight. Against the ceiling, I will cut about the width of my trim guide ONTO the ceiling. IOW, about 1/126 of the paper is actually on the ceiling. Makes it look straighter from the HO's perspective. But that don't work all the time.


----------



## mpminter (Mar 21, 2011)

I can cut a really nice line on casings, but for whatever reason, I have alot of trouble with base and ceilings. My customers are always happy, but I often feel frustrated.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

the paintman said:


> I just got asked to bid a 21,000sf house in the orlando area if your interested.


Hell no! I'll take 18 small ones in a month any day for a year.


----------



## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

jack pauhl said:


> Hell no! I'll take 18 small ones in a month any day for a year.


I hear that one, the big projects have more stress and more time. only way i would ever tackle a house like that is if i knew they had no rush to get in. No one wants you in there house working, when your looking at months of work doesnt matter if your doing a good job/ being respectful they want to get in and its harder to keep them happy. "well we want to be in by (date is weeks earlier than originally planned)" great. Btw, jack paul im very impressed by all the pictures of your work on this site. nice stuff:thumbsup:


----------



## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

wills fresh coat said:


> thats what i was trying to say......i guess we all started out doing things that we laugh at now


be lying if i said that wasnt true


----------



## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

StripandCaulk said:


> Io one wants you in there house working, when your looking at months of work doesnt matter if your doing a good job/ being respectful they want to get in and its harder to keep them happy. "well we want to be in by (date is weeks earlier than originally planned)" great. B


There is a shelf life to having any trades person in a house. If you have a large job, you need a large crew. 

You all know how fish and company is compared - they both go bad after 3 days.


----------



## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

I generally do my cut ins by switching hands for a nice smooth transitions.I let my left hand know what my right hand is doing sorta speak.


----------

