# Whats a good year $$



## GR8painter (Dec 18, 2014)

So the title pretty much says it. What do you guys (and imaginary girls) consider to be a good year financially speaking. Around these parts (Bpston), if your solo, 70k before taxes would be doing pretty well, with room to improve. If you have the responsibility of running crews, I would think that would have to triple.
I'm curious how that number would fluctuate in different parts and different countries.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Are you talking employee or business owner?


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## GR8painter (Dec 18, 2014)

Solo (sole proprietor), or business owner. Not employee.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

GR8painter said:


> So the title pretty much says it. What do you guys (and imaginary girls) consider to be a good year financially speaking. Around these parts (Bpston), if your solo, 70k before taxes would be doing pretty well, with room to improve. If you have the responsibility of running crews, I would think that would have to triple.
> I'm curious how that number would fluctuate in different parts and different countries.


Are you actually IN Bahston? Or one of the 'burbs

Even here between 128 and 495, if I was the solo breadwinner and earning pre-tax of 70, that would barely be enough. Inside of 128, you'd need another income to be less stressed financially. Outside of 495, I am sure 70 would be OK. 

My brother, living quite a spartan existence in Acton, says he can live within his means on 50. But he's not a poster boy for capitalism, and he is essentially single.


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## GR8painter (Dec 18, 2014)

Burbs, traffic makes me wanna kill.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

It's all relative to an individual's personal objectives, goals and ideals. In other words several people could give you completely different answers and they could all be correct.


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## GR8painter (Dec 18, 2014)

There is no correct number. Looking for the range, knowing it will vary.


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

Ok boys, whip em out !! I would say 25% net is a good year. Not there yet.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

GR8painter said:


> There is no correct number. Looking for the range, knowing it will vary.


GR8painter, I would say if you are a solo act, and are grossing $6,000 per month, working 40 hours in the bucket per week, I would say you are in the *pretty good* range.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

bryceraisanen said:


> Ok boys, whip em out !! I would say 25% net is a good year. Not there yet.


Yeah, gross is immaterial. Net is where it's at.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

I break even, but it's cool, my nurse practitioner wife does pretty good


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

PaintersUnite said:


> GR8painter, I would say if you are a solo act, and are grossing $*6,000 per month,* working 40 hours in the bucket per week, I would say you are in the *pretty good* range.


The average interior paint job at $6,000 requires approx 12 to 15 % for paints and supplies. If your overhead is low (used truck, ladders, web site, all repeat biz and referrals) you figure it out. 

If a solo guy here on *PT*, is making much more than that, I would love to see his *2014 tax return*. :whistling2:


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Actually that's a pretty good answer PU. (sorry for the acronym). Of course the $6000 per interior or average job cost does not take into account how long that job takes. 
So for the OP, Say you are averaging $50 per hour and working 40 hours billAble per week, which probably means you're really working 60-75 hours per week at least, then you are billing at $2000 per week times 50 weeks per year or $100,000 per year sales on labor. Of course you have overhead to take out of that, so that all depends on what your OH is. It's been quite a while since I was a one man show so I don't know that a typical OH is on that. I know that industry average is doing well at gross income being 45-55% of sales, and net income, profit after all expenses including paying yourself at around 10%. If you are a one man show then most of your sales will go back into your income, so you are probably on track with your examples. Running multiple crews is a vague sample, but yes, your guesstimate of 3 times that can be accurate. It can also be high or low, just depends on how efficient you are. 
I have found that setting goals and keeping those evenly remotely in front of you can be helpful. Discovered that rather late in the game but thought I would pass it along ;-)


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

We did not make our previously stated goal.....we were $148,000 short....maybe this year we will be a national baller....but I'm looking to do more residential as I need more fast cash...however we already have a big car max that will carry over into 2015 and I'm pretty sure we will be awarded a Walmart or sams club to kick off the new year as I only bid on like 60 of them in December......Texas looks promising...maybe Georgia, lousiana or the Carolinas....


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## glennb (Mar 7, 2012)

how many guys you have rich?


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## glennb (Mar 7, 2012)

did you end up trying canvassing ?


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

richmondpainting said:


> We did not make our previously stated goal.....we were $148,000 short....maybe this year we will be a national baller....but I'm looking to do more residential as I need more fast cash...however we already have a big car max that will carry over into 2015 and I'm pretty sure we will be awarded a Walmart or sams club to kick off the new year as I only bid on like 60 of them in December......Texas looks promising...maybe Georgia, lousiana or the Carolinas....


Please refer to Post #10....


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

Damon T said:


> Actually that's a pretty good answer PU. (sorry for the acronym). Of course the $6000 per interior or average job cost does not take into account how long that job takes.


I think you misunderstood me. My point was not how long a $6,000 job should take. What I was trying to say is, if a OMS is making $6,000 per month, whether it be 1 or 10 jobs that total $6,000 per month. I believe paints & materials should be approx - 12 to 15% of that 6k gross income.



Damon T said:


> So for the OP, Say you are averaging $50 per hour and working 40 hours billAble per week, which probably means you're really working 60-75 hours per week at least, then you are billing at $2000 per week times 50 weeks per year or $100,000 per year sales on labor.


That sounds GREAT in theory and on PAPER, now show me a few One Man Shows on Paint Talk, that have grossed $100,000 per year, consistently over a 5 year period. 

Or better yet, let one of these $100,000 per year, OMS, step to the plate and produce their Tax returns for the past 5 years. I don't believe anyone on PT will be raising their hand.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

PaintersUnite said:


> Or better yet, let one of these $100,000 per year, OMS, step to the plate and produce their Tax returns for the past 5 years. I don't believe anyone on PT will be raising their hand.


 
how do you ever expect to make any money when you think everybody is poor?........


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## GR8painter (Dec 18, 2014)

My original post was inferring net, after paint etc. I'm on year two, and honestly, 100k is not out of the question for one painter. Have the right customers (successful marketing), run your projects like clockwork, keep yourself booked 5X52. 100k


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

GR8painter said:


> My original post was inferring net, after paint etc. I'm on year two, and honestly, *100k is not out of the question for one painter.* Have the right customers (successful marketing), run your projects like clockwork, keep yourself booked 5X52. 100k


I never said is wasn't possible. Sure, if all the stars line up and you work 60+ hours a week, I can see it happening. However, you most likely would have no life.

My question was, step to the plate if you are a OMS, that can show tax returns for (5) consecutive years grossing 100k +???

Ole, I'll be waiting.


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## GR8painter (Dec 18, 2014)

60+ hrs a week...I don't do that even including travel time and looking at work. If you're doing 60, you're not planning your work week very well, or underestimating how long a project will take correctly, or both, I do neither.


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## PremierPaintingMa (Nov 30, 2014)

PaintersUnite said:


> I never said is wasn't possible. Sure, if all the stars line up and you work 60+ hours a week, I can see it happening. However, you most likely would have no life.
> 
> My question was, step to the plate if you are a OMS, that can show tax returns for (5) consecutive years grossing 100k +???
> 
> Ole, I'll be waiting.


Hi Joe!
With all do respect!
Can you please tell how long will take you to paint an exterior cape house about 1700 to 1800 SQF with minimum prep. that is one coat tinted primer body one coat finish body and one coat trim?


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

GR8painter said:


> 60+ hrs a week...I don't do that even including travel time and looking at work. If you're doing 60, you're not planning your work week very well, or underestimating how long a project will take correctly, or both, I do neither.


I was referring to 40 hours on the job site, and 20 hours giving estimates, selling jobs, marketing, office time, etc.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

PremierPaintingMa said:


> Hi Joe!
> With all do respect!
> Can you please tell how long will take you to paint an exterior cape house about 1700 to 1800 SQF with minimum prep. that is one coat tinted primer body one coat finish body and one coat trim?


What does that have to do with my question you are dodging?

Please scan your last 5 years tax returns, post it on the site, and prove me wrong.

Thanks!


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## PremierPaintingMa (Nov 30, 2014)

PaintersUnite said:


> What does that have to do with my question you are dodging?
> 
> Please scan your last 5 years tax returns, post it on the site, and prove me wrong.
> 
> Thanks!


I don't work by myself we are 3 in winter and 4 to 5 in summer.
Here in my area the average cost to paint a cape house 1700 to 1800 SQF is about $4700 to $5400 if you do one house every 5 to 6 days 13 houses in 4 mouth by your self that is $65,000 on an average of $5,000 you still have 8 month to go do the math.


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## GR8painter (Dec 18, 2014)

Guess we can redefine this subject. Lets assume you're NOT painting a house exterior yourself, cuz thats just silly.


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## PremierPaintingMa (Nov 30, 2014)

GR8painter said:


> Guess we can redefine this subject. Lets assume you're NOT painting a house exterior yourself, cuz thats just silly.


I think for someone just starting and working by himself making $70,000 it's a very good start, i would recommend you to get a helps in the summer and that should bring your income to the $100,000 this way you will have little bit more time to focus on bringing more customers.
What area in Boston are you in?
Where i live in Westwood MA i can't survive on $70,000 as you know.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

PaintersUnite said:


> Please scan your last 5 years tax returns, post it on the site, and prove me wrong.
> 
> Thanks!


Yeah bitches Thanks!


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## PremierPaintingMa (Nov 30, 2014)

bender said:


> yeah bitches Thanks!


lmao!


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## TrueColors (Jul 30, 2010)

Edited


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## GR8painter (Dec 18, 2014)

Westwood is not cheap, which means its a great place to be as far as median income. I'm on the south shore, and work towards the oceanfront, hanover, scituate, hingham, etc. 
As far as help goes, no thanks, don't need the headache, got other, bigger plans.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I cannot recommend anyone post even blacked out tax returns on this forum. So, also please do not ask someone to do so.

When I was working solo, I had gross reciepts of around 70,000 which then the tax man said was about 50k worth of income to pay taxes on IIRC. Going from memory about 10 years back. 

I know others here charge far more per hour than I ever have.


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## PremierPaintingMa (Nov 30, 2014)

GR8painter said:


> Westwood is not cheap, which means its a great place to be as far as median income. I'm on the south shore, and work towards the oceanfront, hanover, scituate, hingham, etc.
> As far as help goes, no thanks, don't need the headache, got other, bigger plans.


50% of my works is in Hingham what a booming town and the rest in Dover, Westwood, Newton and Welesley.
By the end of this month i will start an interior job for about 8000 SQF in hingham just waiting for the plaster guy to finish we did the exterior trims end of summer.


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## Sustainable in OR. (Dec 30, 2010)

*12-15% Material on Jobs*

I agree with PU about the 12-15% range for materials on a job.
Have stuck to this method consistently each year for the past 4 years. 

Never have exceeded the yearly job materials of 15% figure.

No matter what gross amount of earnings yearly this part (job materials) has stayed consistent and allowed a nice net of 35-40% yearly.

This has helped me stay profitable and checks my need to think I need to low ball a job just to stay busy. 

Busy has not always meant profitable, until the consistent self imposed implementation of the 12-15% rule like PU stated. 

Your only gonna go so far, for a limited time with those crazy 30-50% materials figures until you cant afford to go to the next job!

My theory - let the low baller, gotta have it guy earn & buy his way out of business!


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

What's a good year? 

Closing out the year with:

-Bills paid/zero debt
- 2-3 months of fresh receivables added to the bank accounts
-IRAs maxed out
-2-3 months worth of work booked for the coming year
-having had 2-3 months of vacation with family and friends
-good health (within reason)
-more happy clients



Those are my metrics. It's been a good year.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Oh, and one more thing: minimal stale receivables, less than $2K.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

I've always been taught to never discuss your earnings with those who either make more or less than you (pretty much everybody). When I entered the trades, I was told by a wise old carpenter that whenever somebody asks how much you make, you should always tell them that it's difficult to make a dime in this business.


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

If "Joe" posts his, I'll post mine.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Gough said:


> What's a good year? Closing out the year with: -Bills paid/zero debt - 2-3 months of fresh receivables added to the bank accounts -IRAs maxed out -2-3 months worth of work booked for the coming year -having had 2-3 months of vacation with family and friends -good health (within reason) -more happy clients Those are my metrics. It's been a good year.


 2-3 months fresh receivables, Does that mean you stop making deposits in October?


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> 2-3 months fresh receivables, Does that mean you stop making deposits in October?


Sorry, I meant that much put in the bank at the end of the year after all the bills are paid, IRAs filled up, etc.... basically, added to cash reserves.


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

glennb said:


> did you end up trying canvassing ?


We peaked around 16 I believe. No we didn't try it as we got to wrapped up in commercial work but we are for sure this year......More residential and we're going to concentrate more on local stuff....I've almost convinced myself to turn down these 60 walmarts I bid on.....as I know come Monday the phone will start ringing......


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

Gough said:


> Please refer to Post #10....


Gross sounds better and is more fun though....lol


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

Wow....this thread is a bit crazy....geez guys....get it together...


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

ProWallGuy said:


> If "Joe" posts his, I'll post mine.


Come on "Joe" let's roll:yes:


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

ProWallGuy said:


> If "Joe" posts his, I'll post mine.


*I'm not one of the 100k plus per year solo guys, so I'm disqualified from the running.*

Like I stated, I believe it's possible to make $100k per year as a OMS, but here is my question: if you take 500 "1 man painting contractors in the US", who have been in business for 5 years, what percentage of these 500 solo painting contractors, are making 100k plus per year? 

*This is my guess below;*

*Quote by Brian:* It is a documented fact that 90% of small businesses fail within 5 years. Of those that make it 5 years, another 90% will fail within the next five years. Which means, 99% of small businesses fail within 10 years. One of the primary reasons for failure is not charging enough. Contractors are as guilty of this as anyone. *Pricing, Estimating, and Success*


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## premierpainter (Apr 17, 2007)

We do well. I only work from April til November, no Saturdays and I take about four weeks of vacation during those months. 


I am not putting my tax return online....sorry.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

Started the company in about May of this year and made between $80-90,000 minus paying guys, so I'd say I made closer to $40-50,000


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## PremierPaintingMa (Nov 30, 2014)

PaintersUnite said:


> *I'm not one of the 100k plus per year solo guys, so I'm disqualified from the running.*
> 
> Like I stated, I believe it's possible to make $100k per year as a OMS, but here is my question: if you take 500 "1 man painting contractors in the US", who have been in business for 5 years, what percentage of these 500 solo painting contractors, are making 100k plus per year?
> 
> ...


Hi Joe!
You may be wright in some way but it depend on how you define small business, don't forget this country was build on small businesses. You are confuse between small business and self employed i don't think self employed one person painter making $70,000 is consider small business.


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## GR8painter (Dec 18, 2014)

Number 1 reason a solo painter fails, its not undercharging, its not having an effective marketing plan, same as most other independent contractors. It's usually a slow slide down until you end up working for someone else that does have effective marketing. I'm working on it guys, stay tuned.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

PremierPaintingMa said:


> I don't work by myself we are 3 in winter and 4 to 5 in summer.
> Here in my area the average cost to paint a cape house 1700 to 1800 SQF is about $4700 to $5400 if you do one house every 5 to 6 days 13 houses in 4 mouth by your self that is $65,000 on an average of $5,000 you still have 8 month to go do the math.


That's great, *if you can* sell 13 exteriors at $5,000 per house, and complete those 13 houses in 4 months (one man), without losing time from, *rain-days,* postponements or cancellations. The big question is, *if you can*? I never have!


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## PremierPaintingMa (Nov 30, 2014)

Joe Joe Joe!
4 months is about 17 weeks and 105 to 106 days of works including Saturday.
Take off one month of rain-days and postponements as for cancellation you should have a back up specially in the summer. Here in our areas if you are a decent painter doing your homework's by the end of June mid July you should be booked solid until end November.
As for the price of $5000 per house that is just an estimates some house are $8K some are $15k, if you do the proper research in your areas you should be able to do it. All we need to do is sit back and see what are we doing wrong and try to improve our selves.
Hope you will be busy this coming season.


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## starwad (Dec 16, 2014)

I would say 40-70k a year. Is a typical good year. But 30's are not out of the questions in St. Louis, Mo area.


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## Dean CRCNA (Feb 4, 2010)

A little outdated, but still useful ...

http://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/painter/salary


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

starwad said:


> I would say 40-70k a year. Is a typical good year. But 30's are not out of the questions in St. Louis, Mo area.



I'm with this guy.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

Dean CRCNA said:


> A little outdated, but still useful ...
> 
> http://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/painter/salary


The articular is not referring to a painter/businessman, it's referring to employees.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

That is always the hard part of those articles. How are they factoring in all the 1 man shops or small businesses with the owner in the field full time with employees. Are they included in the survey or excluded?


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## PremierPaintingMa (Nov 30, 2014)

DeanV said:


> That is always the hard part of those articles. How are they factoring in all the 1 man shops or small businesses with the owner in the field full time with employees. Are they included in the survey or excluded?


My understanding they are talking about employees when they "The average salary of a painter"


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

Dean CRCNA said:


> A little outdated, but still useful ... http://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/painter/salary


I'm the highest paid painter in the world!
Smoked em all
It's way outdated......


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Oden said:


> I'm the highest paid painter in the world!
> Smoked em all
> It's way outdated......


I'd be sleeping on the BART train for those wages!


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

CApainter said:


> I'd be sleeping on the BART train for those wages!


I had to look up BART train
So what is the EL?
Lol
Learn things on the PT I do.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Oden said:


> I had to look up BART train
> So what is the EL?
> Lol
> Learn things on the PT I do.


Let me tell you something Oden, I don't have a clue in hades what an "EL" is, but I can tell you this, the metro in washington DC and surrounding areas, can be a learning center for BART(Bay Area Rapid Transit).


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## Dean CRCNA (Feb 4, 2010)

PaintersUnite said:


> The articular is not referring to a painter/businessman, it's referring to employees.


Article was for 50% self-employed and 50% employee.

Here is another one http://www.simplyhired.com/salaries-k-self-employed-painter-jobs.html


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I think the second one posted above is odd. Where and how does one post a job opening for a self employed painter? Does not make sense. Knowing that the first one includes 50:50 employees and self employed is huge.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

CApainter said:


> Let me tell you something Oden, I don't have a clue in hades what an "EL" is, but I can tell you this, the metro in washington DC and surrounding areas, can be a learning center for BART(Bay Area Rapid Transit).


The "L is the elevated train, running on raised tracks in Chicago. A handful of other cities have "EL"s in whole or part.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

Dean CRCNA said:


> Article was for 50% self-employed and 50% employee.
> 
> Here is another one http://www.simplyhired.com/salaries-k-self-employed-painter-jobs.html


I didn't see any info in that article that defined 50% self-employed and 50% employee.

There is NO possible way that any internet web site, can be accurate at calculating a small businesses gross income, net income and profit.

Even if the info is based on tax returns, most contractors cook their books, and don't claim cash as well.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Gough said:


> The "L is the elevated train, running on raised tracks in Chicago. A handful of other cities have "EL"s in whole or part.


Cuba has the El Camello (the camel)


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## premierpainter (Apr 17, 2007)

Are some of you saying that your business does $70,000 and then you take out for materials and then labor and then pay yourselves?

Maybe I'm not understanding.


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## Dunbar Painting (Mar 19, 2010)

My biz grosses just under 500k. After all expenses I have about 130k left over for my salary and biz profit. Corporation taxes are low so I leave lots in the biz. Also that's after vehicles, phones etc etc.

however, I can do a lot better and must.... My goal is to gross 1.5mil and be taking home 150k... Cost of living here is high.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

premierpainter said:


> Are some of you saying that your business does $70,000 and then you take out for materials and then labor and then pay yourselves?
> 
> Maybe I'm not understanding.


Solo, no employees. One man band.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Bender said:


> Cuba has the El Camello (the camel)


and then there in this el


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

chrisn said:


> and then there in this el


I had a 69' SS with a Saginaw four speed, powered by a 350 big block. I got rid of it before I killed myself. Sadly, I wish I had it now.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

CApainter said:


> I had a 69' SS with a Saginaw four speed, powered by a 350 big block. I got rid of it before I killed myself. Sadly, I wish I had it now.


CA, I gotta say that the pairing of those last two sentences is worrisome. I hope that was unintentional.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Gough said:


> CA, I gotta say that the pairing of those last two sentences is worrisome. I hope that was unintentional.


Whoa! says one determined to live!

However, if in fact I was in a state of despair, how awesome would it be to fly off of a high cliff at one hundred plus miles per hour in a suped up El Camino? A la Thelma and Louise?


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

"Along came a spyder, picked up a rider, took him down the road to eternity"


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Bender said:


> "Along came a spyder, picked up a rider, took him down the road to eternity"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5_0DzMVf1M


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Bender said:


> "Along came a spyder, picked up a rider, took him down the road to eternity"


Dean and Wütherich?


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

The sky is the limit!!


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

richmondpainting said:


> the sky is the limit!!


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Dunbar Painting said:


> My biz grosses just under 500k. After all expenses I have about 130k left over for my salary and biz profit. Corporation taxes are low so I leave lots in the biz. Also that's after vehicles, phones etc etc.
> 
> however, I can do a lot better and must.... My goal is to gross 1.5mil and be taking home 150k... Cost of living here is high.



I think when you hit $1.5 mil gross sales your take home pay will be well over $150,000. 

We had our best year last year. 29% net on $560K (reported) sales plus my wages. Doubled gross sales and more than doubled profit from prior years. Now to keep the boat afloat in uncharted waters


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Yeah, you guys should see Damon, new truck, gold chains, big Rolex, diamonds, furs, it's crazy!! Good job man, you deserve it!


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Everyday


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## Dunbar Painting (Mar 19, 2010)

Damon T said:


> I think when you hit $1.5 mil gross sales your take home pay will be well over $150,000.
> 
> We had our best year last year. 29% net on $560K (reported) sales plus my wages. Doubled gross sales and more than doubled profit from prior years. Now to keep the boat afloat in uncharted waters


The 500k range is a bit of a sweet spot. To hit 1.5mil will mean a lot of costly support staff.


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

Damon T said:


> I think when you hit $1.5 mil gross sales your take home pay will be well over $150,000.
> 
> We had our best year last year. 29% net on $560K (reported) sales plus my wages. Doubled gross sales and more than doubled profit from prior years. Now to keep the boat afloat in uncharted waters


How many guys you running damon?


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

Hines Painting said:


> How many guys you running damon?


Can I guess about 5-6?


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Last year varied, between 5-6 main guys and a few summer extras. 
Most of my guys are on the upper end of the pay scale. Good workers, good production when they're not screwing around.
Actually I typically ran 3 crews. 2 main pros per crew and an added guy for the exterior season. Plus a couple one person crews doing little interior stuff off and on.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Damon T said:


> Last year varied, between 5-6 main guys and a few summer extras. Most of my guys are on the upper end of the pay scale. Good workers, good production when they're not screwing around. Actually I typically ran 3 crews. 2 main pros per crew and an added guy for the exterior season. Plus a couple one person crews doing little interior stuff off and on.


 29% net is very impressive. I'm in the 23-24% range. Just curious how much bucket time you put in this year, and if that has an effect on the profit percentage. I spent basically zero hours in field bucket time, but about 400 hours in the shop bucket. My thoughts are if you pay yourself a salary and spend no time in the bucket, then your margin will be lower than if you spend 1000+ hours in the bucket while paying yourself the same salary, then that bucket time boosts profit because the salary is the same, follow?


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

This year is starting out to be our best yet. This winter we are pretty booked up, just hooked up with 3 different high quality home builders and our regular calls. It will be time to hire more people and a couple of people to run a crew or 2. We also hooked up with a couple specialty coating companies who will send us work.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> 29% net is very impressive. I'm in the 23-24% range. Just curious how much bucket time you put in this year, and if that has an effect on the profit percentage. I spent basically zero hours in field bucket time, but about 400 hours in the shop bucket. My thoughts are if you pay yourself a salary and spend no time in the bucket, then your margin will be lower than if you spend 1000+ hours in the bucket while paying yourself the same salary, then that bucket time boosts profit because the salary is the same, follow?


To make tracking easier and keep numbers lined up for job costing, I pay myself a fixed salary as owner and then I also pay myself hourly for time in the bucket.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

DeanV said:


> To make tracking easier and keep numbers lined up for job costing, I pay myself a fixed salary as owner and then I also pay myself hourly for time in the bucket.


We are working on this right now. Both Carly and I will have our base pay plus bucket time.


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

Our you could it like me I don't suggest as it may lead you to "wanting" a therapist.....lol..

Payroll
Residential painter
Commercial road painter
Job set up
Residential bids
Commercial bids
Invoicing
Home shows
Paying bills
Marketing
Cleaning the shop
Ordering paint
Delivering paint
Delivering/moving trailers
And of there is anything not on the list...I'm sure I did that too...


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## PremierPaintingMa (Nov 30, 2014)

richmondpainting said:


> Our you could it like me I don't suggest as it may lead you to "wanting" a therapist.....lol..
> 
> Payroll
> Residential painter
> ...


Looks like Minestrone soup:help:


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

richmondpainting said:


> Our you could it like me I don't suggest as it may lead you to "wanting" a therapist.....lol..
> 
> Payroll
> Residential painter
> ...


That's why we get the big buck$


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> 29% net is very impressive. I'm in the 23-24% range. Just curious how much bucket time you put in this year, and if that has an effect on the profit percentage. I spent basically zero hours in field bucket time, but about 400 hours in the shop bucket. My thoughts are if you pay yourself a salary and spend no time in the bucket, then your margin will be lower than if you spend 1000+ hours in the bucket while paying yourself the same salary, then that bucket time boosts profit because the salary is the same, follow?




Almost no time in the bucket. Many long hours managing, scheduling, worrying, planning, more stressing etc. it was a challenging year dealing with so much more volume than I was used too. 
I usually pay myself 40 hours a week typically allotted to Admin unless I actually did something in the field, in which case that goes to COGS toward the appropriate job. The Admin pay doesn't go into COGS but it does come out before net profit of course. I think it was an unusual NP, certainly not typical for this industry or my company. And like I said, I spent a lot of time juggling things. I've since hired a part time office person to help with some of the details, which will add to overhead.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

richmondpainting said:


> Our you could it like me I don't suggest as it may lead you to "wanting" a therapist.....lol..
> 
> Payroll
> Residential painter
> ...


any creditability you MIGHT have had was lost with that vet post:thumbdown:


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

chrisn said:


> any creditability you MIGHT have had was lost with that vet post:thumbdown:


I'm too awesome! ! Sorry


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

Damon T said:


> Almost no time in the bucket. Many long hours managing, scheduling, worrying, planning, more stressing etc. it was a challenging year dealing with so much more volume than I was used too.
> I usually pay myself 40 hours a week typically allotted to Admin unless I actually did something in the field, in which case that goes to COGS toward the appropriate job. The Admin pay doesn't go into COGS but it does come out before net profit of course. I think it was an unusual NP, certainly not typical for this industry or my company. And like I said, I spent a lot of time juggling things. I've since hired a part time office person to help with some of the details, which will add to overhead.


29% NP is awesome. IMO, anything over 20% NP in this biz means you're doing many things right.

If I may ask, what would you attribute the huge increase in your NP to?
I'm sure it's not just 1 or 2 things, but does anything stand out? 
-I would guess that having your solid foundation of experienced painters is a big factor?
-Perhaps the incorporation of DSing when PWing and fine-tuning your chem mixes this year?
-I've also had better results with no more than 3-4 painters on each crew, (unless it was a big job that I could be at the entire time). Smaller crews means more accountability, and seemed to be our sweet-spot. 

Whatever you did, I hope you can keep doing it. You now have set the bar very high for your company. Kudos!


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Thx. It's definitely new territory for me. I think our booming economy helped a lot. Raised prices. Efficient crews. Had one $30000 T&M job that helped a lot. Great margins on that one. Some of our bigger exteriors wee also T&M with detailed breakdowns so again good margins. 
T&M because of restoration type work. 
Oh yeah, I also tried hard to avoid that one job I used to get every year that lost big bucks.
And definitely DS!! Haha!


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