# bare mdf



## jaz (Jun 20, 2009)

hey all. i am currently on a new construction job and the special order doors rocked up today. i was suprised to c that they where solid mdf doors with no primer. i was hoping for some advice as to what route to go down. oil or acrylic primer. i have heard that water based will make the mdf fuzzy. the pain in the ass thing is half of the doors have the factory primer on them so its only about 7 doors.  thanks


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

A thin coat of Kilz solvent primer works well on raw MDF, as long as you spray it.


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## jaz (Jun 20, 2009)

kilz isnt an option where im from but if i go down oil path probarly use zinseer coverstain


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Make sure you sand after you prime with either oil or water base.Then hit it again with a light coat of primer, and it will be fine after that.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Killz :no: 
Water lacquer undercoater I have always used. Sands nice.


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## wje (Apr 11, 2009)

Raw edges of MDF will look like you never primed them after the first coat. After the second coat of primer they will get more coverage. In my experience the MDF smells kinda like poop when the primer starts to dry. If you have some pics please post as I have never seen an MDF door.


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## jaz (Jun 20, 2009)

i spoke to a rep today and he was saying some painters going for mirror finish are using a blowtorch over the mdf prior. something to do with getting rid of loose fibres. i aint going down that path cause it sounds a bit ridiculous. but they said to go light waterbased primer, sand followed by my oil, in this case zinseer .


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

jaz said:


> i spoke to a rep today and he was saying some painters going for mirror finish are using a blowtorch over the mdf prior. something to do with getting rid of loose fibres. i aint going down that path cause it sounds a bit ridiculous. but they said to go light waterbased primer, sand followed by my oil, in this case zinseer .











What vendor are you talking to


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

wje said:


> Raw edges of MDF will look like you never primed them after the first coat. After the second coat of primer they will get more coverage. In my experience the MDF smells kinda like poop when the primer starts to dry. If you have some pics please post as I have never seen an MDF door.


:blink::blink::blink: What....how can you comment if you have never seen them??


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

aaron61 said:


> :blink::blink::blink: What....how can you comment if you have never seen them??


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Check this stuff out
http://www.paintdocs.com/webmsds/webPDF.jsp?SITEID=STORECAT&prodno=035777271001&doctype=PDS&lang=E
or 
http://www.vistapaint.com/system/product_pi_sheets/44/original/6600.pdf?1258586162


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## jaz (Jun 20, 2009)

not so much a rep as a paint store worker who worked witha paint manufacturer. water based laquer undercoater sounds good but the products down under are limited some what compared to u guys. this jobs becoming a pain in the ass. all doors have different coloured panels in them to match walls and not to mention the 12 different colours in the joint and the decorative bathroom cornice and the cedar windows............ hope the builder aint get a fright when i invoice him for all the extras


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

jaz said:


> not so much a rep as a paint store worker who worked witha paint manufacturer. water based laquer undercoater sounds good but the products down under are limited some what compared to u guys. this jobs becoming a pain in the ass. all doors have different coloured panels in them to match walls and not to mention the 12 different colours in the joint and the decorative bathroom cornice and the cedar windows............ hope the builder aint get a fright when i invoice him for all the extras


I am sure he won't because you have signed change orders for everything not in the scope of work on your original signed contract, right?!


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Make sure you give the charge PRIOR to performance.
So tell us what the hell are you working with. every time we recommend a product you say ai cant use that cause blah blah. Is there a paint vendor in your area. or is it a home improvement store?


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## FL.BM.DEALER (Apr 2, 2009)

Waterborne Laquer Undercoater Like Lenmar's 1WB.200, must be sprayed, high solids around 47%. This is what the cabinet shops are buying from us down here. Used it myself on MDF doors, You have to lay it on a bit thick on the edges, sands like a DREAM! topcoated with Insl-x Cabinet Coat, my doors look like glass!


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## Outback Painting (Nov 21, 2009)

*Zinsser*



jaz said:


> hey all. i am currently on a new construction job and the special order doors rocked up today. i was suprised to c that they where solid mdf doors with no primer. i was hoping for some advice as to what route to go down. oil or acrylic primer. i have heard that water based will make the mdf fuzzy. the pain in the ass thing is half of the doors have the factory primer on them so its only about 7 doors.  thanks


I think if you use oil or acrylic your still gonna have to sand off the "fuzzy" fibers. I would probably recommend priming them with Zinsser bullseye 123 primer, really easy to spray if your going that route, or brush and roll, dries pretty quick and sands without a problem. 
I hate it when GC's just think they can dump unprimed wood everywhere and assume we'll include priming in our original price. 
All the best with the doors mate!


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## summertime14 (May 4, 2009)

SW Easy Sand Primer. Powders like lacquer. Or I would use waterborne laczwuer undercoater of some sort dependeing on your local vendor. good luck. sounds like a lot of headache.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Outback Painting said:


> I think if you use oil or acrylic your still gonna have to sand off the "fuzzy" fibers. I would probably recommend priming them with Zinsser bullseye 123 primer, really easy to spray if your going that route, or brush and roll, dries pretty quick and sands without a problem.
> I hate it when GC's just think they can dump unprimed wood everywhere and assume we'll include priming in our original price.
> All the best with the doors mate!


I prime regardless if its preprimed or not. Its usually the cheapest primer on the block. Not saying that's what you do. But its better to have the primer in your price regardless.


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## wje (Apr 11, 2009)

aaron61 said:


> :blink::blink::blink: What....how can you comment if you have never seen them??


 
Im pretty sure that all MDF primed will smell the same. I've worked with MDF tons of times, just never seen a bare MDF door. I thought it was a pretty straight forward comment.


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## jaz (Jun 20, 2009)

the extras wont be a problem but its more the fact that what i believe i should be paid an hour to what the think i should be paid an hour. they pay the chippy $30 when he works an houlry rate where as i tend to think $40 an hour. i am in australia ewing painting and most the products u speak about are unheard of here. i sprayed some zinsser 123 today than sanded and sprayed anotherer coat on of zinsser odurless oil through the hvlp so i could sand it down real smooth before top coat. covered up fine but for one pain in the ass thing. the insert of the panels is just like the edges of the doors and the paint just wont go in there. thinking i might have to use a brush to push the paint in there. hope that makes sense ill try to take a photo to show


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

SW not in Australia?


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

crickey!!!


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## jaz (Jun 20, 2009)

sw as in sherwin williams. nope. paint brands here are dulux, taubmans, wattle, haymes and few others. most of those being australian owned and operated


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

That info would have helped 20 post back.


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## ozpaint (Jan 4, 2008)

Hi all
I have been lurking on this board for ages but have never posted or introduced myself.I am 50 years old and have been painting since I was 15 .I'm from Australia and I just had to post something to my countryman Jaz who sounds like a ship without a rudder. What part of Australia are you from, 40 dollars per hour is a minium charge out rate where I'm from. You should join Master Painters Australia and do a few courses and find out what your true costs actually are.Remember you can work on wages for a contractor and take home 700 odd dollars a week and have 4 wks paid leave ,10 paid sick days ,10 paid public holidays and 9% on top of your wage paid into a super fund and 2.5 % on top of that into a portable long service fund .If you can't cover at least that when you are self employed you should re assess your goals 

Use a product called shield on the door mouldings and edges, apply by brush and drive it right in. Sand those areas down .It powders up nicely.
Spray doors with an acrylic sealer / under coat ( Thin a little). with a fine finish tip on an airless.I tend to give them a mist coat then a full coat. Sand doors down and apply by spray ( I use air assisted airless ) an oil based undercoat .Let dry .fine sand. followed by an oil based finish coat.
Do Some research on Quick Dry enamels.Cuts the time down.We are having a bit of success with acrylic enamels like Wattyl Aqua trim and Dulux Aquaenamel.


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## jaz (Jun 20, 2009)

hey oz paint. i didnt mean that i wanted $40 an hpur as i am aware its minimum . for some reason i have found builders wont question a total price or quote for a job but when it comes to things you find yourself working on an hourly rate they tend to think "painters aint worth $50 an hour" where as when i quote i will be looking at it in terms of man hours above $50 an hour. i am in melbourne after a 3 year stint in queensland and finding it a bit different down here. money being one of them. shield? i have never heard of it. who makes it?


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## ozpaint (Jan 4, 2008)

Hi Jaz
Sheild is a specialty product.I get it from paint spot in Moorabbin.It is probably available in all paint spot stores.
On the money side of things .It has always been hard to get a good rate in this town for painting but in the last few years some certain groups have moved in and are undercutting by half.( I don't thik they pay tax or have any insurances.) Add to that the builders have no respect for the trade and most of them couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.They only seem tto clean up when the floor finishers or someone they see as as important is going to arrive.We have moved from house construction and refurbs to commercial construction and repaints because we can't make any money on small builders jobs .They just do not respect our trade


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## jaz (Jun 20, 2009)

ill have to have a scout for it. i know exactly who u speak about in the undercutters. i do new construction in the western suburbs and feel i have to justify my prices to the builder as hes other painters are cheap and nothing is ever a drama, i once seen them on a job next to me for at least 7 days with 3 ppl. the houses where exactly the same size and prices the same yet i spent under 2 weeks in there by myself and made little money so how they made money i do not know. as u said they take shortcurts somewhere. when i approached them to say hi the first bloke could not speak any english. i am looking to get in to the more custom homes where i think it will be a different story but have little contacts yet snce only been down 3 months


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Killz :no:
> Water lacquer undercoater I have always used. Sands nice.


I suppose it depends on what you intend to topcoat with. If i'm topcoating with paint, I use Kilz undercoat (Or Zinsser). If i'm topcoating with lacquer, I use shellac undercoat (or vinyl sealer). I don't think i'd use a lacquer under paint for concern of adhesion issues. 

It also depends on the price-point your builder is willing to work with you on. I'm not going to pay premium prices for premium products when the builder will only pay bottom dollar.


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