# Graco jet rollers??



## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

My guys went to a demo at a sherwin store and swear there great...i haven't seen them in action but I'm intrested. Has anyone tried them or bought some??

I hear little over spray and cuts out your back roll guy....

Any input??

Thanks...


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

We've used it on a handful of jobs where we did have to spray and backroll untextured GWB. It worked fine, but since most walls/ceilings around here are textured, we haven't found it that useful.


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

Gough said:


> We've used it on a handful of jobs where we did have to spray and backroll untextured GWB. It worked fine, but since most walls/ceilings around here are textured, we haven't found it that useful.


Most here are smooth....why wouldn't it be useful on textured walls?


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

richmondpainting said:


> Most here are smooth....why wouldn't it be useful on textured walls?


This has come up on a bunch of other threads. I've yet to hear a convincing arguments to backroll textured GWB, and I've heard a lot of the arguments. Textured surfaces...we spray and leave alone. Never had an issue.


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

Gough said:


> This has come up on a bunch of other threads. I've yet to hear a convincing arguments to backroll textured GWB, and I've heard a lot of the arguments. Textured surfaces...we spray and leave alone. Never had an issue.


We have some orange peel coming up...your saying...we can spray the dry fall and leave it? Same in the areas were using dry wall primer and two coats of purple colored pro mar 200....


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

Gough said:


> This has come up on a bunch of other threads. I've yet to hear a convincing arguments to backroll textured GWB, and I've heard a lot of the arguments. Textured surfaces...we spray and leave alone. Never had an issue.


Im still amazed by this. So... do u mask the ceiling off or how do u spray the wall even enough not to have any sags?

Say ur doing 100 unit apt bldg. Popcorn on ceilings and orange peel on walls. Specs for 1 coat white on ceiling. 1 primer an 1 finish coat on walls. Whats the basic process for spraying the walls? Do u brush the ceiling line or shield it or what?


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

richmondpainting said:


> We have some orange peel coming up...your saying...we can spray the dry fall and leave it? Same in the areas were using dry wall primer and two coats of purple colored pro mar 200....


Only done dryfall on spandrel (cast) decks with no texture, so I can't comment on that. But primer and two top coats? With a skilled sprayman and a wide fan, certainly.


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

Gough said:


> Only done dryfall on spandrel (cast) decks with no texture, so I can't comment on that. But primer and two top coats? With a skilled sprayman and a wide fan, certainly.


We're doing a black deck and have to bring it down to 12 feet....i will have the guys give it a shot....


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

bryceraisanen said:


> Im still amazed by this. So... do u mask the ceiling off or how do u spray the wall even enough not to have any sags?
> 
> Say ur doing 100 unit apt bldg. Popcorn on ceilings and orange peel on walls. Specs for 1 coat white on ceiling. 1 primer an 1 finish coat on walls. Whats the basic process for spraying the walls? Do u brush the ceiling line or shield it or what?


No. Wide fan, vertical passes.

Shield.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

richmondpainting said:


> We're doing a black deck and have to bring it down to 12 feet....i will have the guys give it a shot....


Got it, that whole "disappearing ceiling" industrial thing.


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

Gough said:


> No. Wide fan, vertical passes.
> 
> Shield.


I've done what you're describing... for miles on end. And i agree it can be done. But only about 1 in 1000 painters are man enough to hold the shield up there for longer than 15 seconds. 

But that process has its limitations. Usually the cut line isnt tight enough, and will require a lot of t/u later. Because the guy cant hold the shield steady while also swinging the gun. And forgetaboutit on 9' walls. I can see it being really slick if the walls n ceiling are the same color. We usually shield (4') and spray everything sideways. Then backroll. Walls colors like antique white, navajo white, beiges and tans. The cut line matters.

Am I missing something here? I've sprayed over 100,000 gallons. Tried a lot of stuff. Never got it to lay flat without backrolling. Seems to always be some ghosting or fuzzies or uneven sheen or something.... use 519 521 523 most of the time for finish

And specs call for backrolling, so if u don't, they will blame every last dang thing on the painter.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Bryce, I can't recall ever seeing backrolling called out in specs. Then again, these days there's a lot I don't recall.

I'm a wuss. When we've done that, I've had a helper man the shield. 

EDIT: fortunately, popcorn is pretty rare around here

We haven't encountered that situation with 9-0 walls. That would be problematic. Fortunately, nearly all of 9-0 stuff has been one color/one product.


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

Gough said:


> Bryce, I can't recall ever seeing backrolling called out in specs. Then again, these days there's a lot I don't recall.
> 
> I'm a wuss. When we've done that, I've had a helper man the shield.
> 
> We haven't encountered that situation with 9-0 walls. That would be problematic. Fortunately, nearly all of 9-0 stuff has been one color/one product.


I've always been worried about the paint absorbing differently. We have an 126 unit complex all the units are flat Promar 200.

We also have a planet fitness with big purple and yellow eggshell walls...

Can we cut out the back rolling in both scenarios?


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

richmondpainting said:


> I've always been worried about the paint absorbing differently. We have an 126 unit complex all the units are flat Promar 200.
> 
> We also have a planet fitness with big purple and yellow eggshell walls...
> 
> Can we cut out the back rolling in both scenarios?


With primer and topcoats applied to the specified thickness/coverage, we've never had a problem. On textured surfaces around here, I've seen backrolling cause far more problems then it ever cured.

YMMV


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

Gough said:


> Bryce, I can't recall ever seeing backrolling called out in specs. Then again, these days there's a lot I don't recall.
> 
> I'm a wuss. When we've done that, I've had a helper man the shield.
> 
> We haven't encountered that situation with 9-0 walls. That would be problematic. Fortunately, nearly all of 9-0 stuff has been one color/one product.


I've always been worried about the paint absorbing differently. We have an 126 unit complex all the units are flat Promar 200.

We also have a planet fitness with big purple and yellow eggshell walls...

Can we cut out the back rolling in both scenarios?


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

On smooth walls? Doubt it unless you have an very skilled spray guy.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

straight_lines said:


> On smooth walls? Doubt it unless you have an very skilled spray guy.


No, sorry if that wasn't clear in my earlier posts. I've been talking about textured walls and ceilings.

That being said, what seems to show on smooth GWB seems to be 99% the blems in the taping.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Gough said:


> No, sorry if that wasn't clear in my earlier posts. I've been talking about textured walls and ceilings.
> 
> That being said, what seems to show on smooth GWB seems to be 99% the blems in the taping.


Yea I knew you were but he was asking about commercial walls in a gym done in eggshell. Can't imagine it being good enough but then again its commercial and it really surprises me the owners of these places let most of the new work I see pass.


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## oldccm (Jan 23, 2013)

We almost exclusively deal with smooth gwb. We usually end up back rolling walls just because touch ups later will stand out on a sprayed only surface. The spray roller is good for one color wall jobs but usually only practical to us if there's more than a little walls to do. Not sure about the specific roller you're talking about but ours doesn't extend retract so heights and tight spaces is cumbersome


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

straight_lines said:


> Yea I knew you were but he was asking about commercial walls in a gym done in eggshell. Can't imagine it being good enough but then again its commercial and it really surprises me the owners of these places let most of the new work I see pass.


The walls are big and textured...purple and yellow in color.


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

Gough said:


> Bryce, I can't recall ever seeing backrolling called out in specs. Then again, these days there's a lot I don't recall.
> 
> I'm a wuss. When we've done that, I've had a helper man the shield.
> 
> ...


Well i guess maybe its a regional thing to some extent, backrolling in all our specs 09900 painting. Dang i must suck i would still like to see the guy who can spray out the bathroom, above and the sides of the tub, shower, and tip in cabinet, with all the skinny reveals, and getting full coverage on the inside corners and around the shower head without any runs anywhere!! Im thinkin i could sure do it with some tighta$$ 515 or 517 tip, but then my gpm/mph would be cut in half. When u say a wide tip, are u talking like a 6 or 7? What kind of problems has backrolling caused for you? And, not doubting your credibility, but whats ur main work; residential (luxury/cheap), commercial (retail schools hospitals hotels), industrial (utility T/D power generation pulp paper food processing)?

Oden where the heck r u?


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

bryceraisanen said:


> Well i guess maybe its a regional thing to some extent, backrolling in all our specs 09900 painting. Dang i must suck i would still like to see the guy who can spray out the bathroom, above and the sides of the tub, shower, and tip in cabinet, with all the skinny reveals, and getting full coverage on the inside corners and around the shower head without any runs anywhere!! Im thinkin i could sure do it with some tighta$$ 515 or 517 tip, but then my gpm/mph would be cut in half. When u say a wide tip, are u talking like a 6 or 7? What kind of problems has backrolling caused for you? And, not doubting your credibility, but whats ur main work; residential (luxury/cheap), commercial (retail schools hospitals hotels), industrial (utility T/D power generation pulp paper food processing)?
> 
> Oden where the heck r u?


Yeah, typically a 6xx.

We see problems with other outfits backrolling on textured GWB: roller tracks, stripes, etc. I think it's mainly from either skimping on material or letting the sprayman get too far ahead of the guys rolling. On the typical textures around here, it just seemed an extra, unnecessary step.

We're mainly residential (what passes for high end around here) and light commercial. As our good GCs have retired, we've shifted away from NC. In fact, I prefer to avoid it all together.


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

1225 tip and you're good to go.


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

Hines Painting said:


> 1225 tip and you're good to go.


Thats a huge tip...do they sell those st sherwin typically? Never looked...521 is the biggest ive used


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

richmondpainting said:


> Thats a huge tip...do they sell those st sherwin typically? Never looked...521 is the biggest ive used


I dunno, I just walked into a SW for the first time Monday; I needed an 18" microfiber roller and my normal company has to order them. 

But the store I use (Kelly Moore) stocks the 1225 and a few other large sizes.


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

Hines Painting said:


> I dunno, I just walked into a SW for the first time Monday; I needed an 18" microfiber roller and my normal company has to order them.
> 
> But the store I use (Kelly Moore) stocks the 1225 and a few other large sizes.


I'm checking it out tomorrow. ...could really help out on this apartment complex


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

richmondpainting said:


> I'm checking it out tomorrow. ...could really help out on this apartment complex


I did a lot of bank owned homes last year and they would all go offwhite eggshell. I would shoot everything I could with the 1225 and then go back through with a 415 or 515 to hit the doors and other small areas that the 1225 was too big for.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Gough said:


> This has come up on a bunch of other threads. I've yet to hear a convincing arguments to backroll textured GWB, and I've heard a lot of the arguments. Textured surfaces...we spray and leave alone. Never had an issue.


 What about touching up? Sprayed only often looks a shade darker than rolled. We usually end up doing a ton of touching up from changes, trade damage, moving, etc. Therefore we pretty much back roll or just roll everything.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> What about touching up? Sprayed only often looks a shade darker than rolled. We usually end up doing a ton of touching up from changes, trade damage, moving, etc. Therefore we pretty much back roll or just roll everything.



:thumbsup:

Even with backrolling or just rolling, we find touchups to be problematic. With enough trade damage in NC, we end up just repainting a lot of walls. Another reason we avoid NC anymore.


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

I just picked up a Graco 1227 tip....

Any pointers?


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

Ya. Don't point it at anyone. It's like the equivalent of a sawed-off shotgun. 


Stelzer Painting Inc.


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> Ya. Don't point it at anyone. It's like the equivalent of a sawed-off shotgun.
> 
> Stelzer Painting Inc.


Lol....man I wanna see this....i bought the wrong housing it will have to wait.


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

richmond: sneak it into a sprayer without telling the guys. Would be a great practical joke haha


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

driftweed said:


> richmond: sneak it into a sprayer without telling the guys. Would be a great practical joke haha


Just be sure to bring along a few extra 5s of paint.


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

driftweed said:


> richmond: sneak it into a sprayer without telling the guys. Would be a great practical joke haha


Might have to try it...lol


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

Make sure the gun is moving fast.


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

Hines Painting said:


> Make sure the gun is moving fast.


They don't sell anything like a 1211 or 1217??

Seems productive but way too much paint


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

richmondpainting said:


> They don't sell anything like a 1211 or 1217??
> 
> Seems productive but way too much paint


You're supposed to be painting, not misting.


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## mattpaints82 (Mar 7, 2013)

We use a 1221 to shoot high build primer on NC. Makes quick work of priming.:gun_bandana:


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

Ya, Gough nailed it. 

With that wide of a fan you would have to move extremely slow for coverage with an 11/13/15/17 tip.

I don't know how the 1227 will be, but you don't have to be Flash Gordon to use the 1225. But, its enough paint that if your hand isn't moving when you pull the trigger you are going to leave a build up of paint.

Just have them start like 2-3 feet away from the wall to get a feel for it.


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

Hines Painting said:


> Ya, Gough nailed it.
> 
> With that wide of a fan you would have to move extremely slow for coverage with an 11/13/15/17 tip.
> 
> ...


We typically use a 311 on residential exteriors and 517 on new dry wall


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

richmondpainting said:


> I just picked up a Graco 1227 tip....
> 
> Any pointers?


Zip tie. Count profits.

Edit: hire laborer to keep the pot full.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

bryceraisanen said:


> Zip tie. Count profits.
> 
> Edit: hire laborer to keep the pot full.


:thumbsup: yeah, with that output, either have a tender to deal with the pot or go for ... something bigger. One commercial outfit here put together a rig to work out of a 55-gal drum. They do all the painting for a large, rapidly-growing tech firm here. One color, one product.


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

bryceraisanen said:


> Zip tie. Count profits.
> 
> Edit: hire laborer to keep the pot full.


Zip tie? 

Sounds like I'm either paying the laborer to back roll or just fill paint....and now in using way more paint..going from a 17 to 27 tip....


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

richmondpainting said:


> We typically use a *311 on residential exteriors* and 517 on new dry wall


 Raise your prices and get a man's tip.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

richmondpainting said:


> Zip tie?
> 
> Sounds like I'm either paying the laborer to back roll or just fill paint....and now in using way more paint..going from a 17 to 27 tip....


For a given WFT, the wider fan means fewer....jeez, Richmond, you did it to me again! I can't believe you got me to bite on that one! That was one artful troll, my hat's off to you sir.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)




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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

I wonder if they make a 1210 fine finish tip


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Hines Painting said:


> I wonder if they make a 1210 fine finish tip


Sure, but the problem is that your arm keeps going to sleep while you're spraying.


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

Gough said:


> For a given WFT, the wider fan means fewer....jeez, Richmond, you did it to me again! I can't believe you got me to bite on that one! That was one artful troll, my hat's off to you sir.


I'm confused....qhat did I do?


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

richmondpainting said:


> I'm confused....qhat did I do?


You trolled me with your comment about a 1227 using "way too much paint"...and I almost fell for it. I started to put together a cogent reply about fan width, material output, arm speed, and film thickness when I realized that you were putting us on. 

For anyone reading this who might not understand the basics of spraying paint with an airless sprayer, here's a quote from Graco about using the wider tips:

"When you use WideRAC, be sure to increase the flow rate of the tip to ensure the same mil build and rate of application (arm speed). Also, make sure your airless sprayer can support the larger tip size."

This, and lots of other handy information, can be found in, "The Basics of Airless Spraying". http://www.graco.com/content/dam/graco/ced/literature/misc/321132/321132EN-E.pdf


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

Gough said:


> You trolled me with your comment about a 1227 using "way too much paint"...and I almost fell for it. I started to put together a cogent reply about fan width, material output, arm speed, and film thickness when I realized that you were putting us on.
> 
> For anyone reading this who might not understand the basics of spraying paint with an airless sprayer, here's a quote from Graco about using the wider tips:
> 
> ...


I know how the numbers work ect....i was just asking if they made a 24 inch fan with less out put...i don't see why you would ever need anything over a 17

I used a 413 on a house a few weeks ago and the paint had no where to go...


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

richmondpainting said:


> I know how the numbers work ect....i was just asking if they made a 24 inch fan with less out put...i don't see why you would ever need anything over a 17
> 
> I used a 413 on a house a few weeks ago and the paint had no where to go...


Really?


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

Gough said:


> Really?


So I spray dry wall with a 517, use x amount of paint and pay one guy $10/hour to back roll.

Now I use a 1227, use more paint then a 517 and still pay a guy $10/hour to fill my paint.

I'm spending more money with the bigger tip...

Try to maximize here.....Not lose more


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

richmondpainting said:


> So I spray dry wall with a 517, use x amount of paint and pay one guy $10/hour to back roll.
> 
> Now I use a 1227, use more paint then a 517 and still pay a guy $10/hour to fill my paint.
> 
> ...



I understand. How about trying something like a 621? It can put plenty of product on without the waste. 


Stelzer Painting Inc.


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

richmondpainting said:


> So I spray dry wall with a 517, use x amount of paint and pay one guy $10/hour to back roll.
> 
> Now I use a 1227, use more paint then a 517 and still pay a guy $10/hour to fill my paint.
> 
> ...


Y would u use more paint? Its the same wall. And what about the fact that the spray guy now gets twice as much done in a day? So now the same two guys r there all day but they got twice as far.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I don't think he knows how fast the spray guy will have to move with a 1227. 

Mils are mils.


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

straight_lines said:


> I don't think he knows how fast the spray guy will have to move with a 1227.
> 
> Mils are mils.


No idea...we still need the correct housing. We're trying to cut the back rolling out on these last 50 or so units...with orange peel...one coat flat...walls and ceilings


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

Flat paint?

Dont backroll a unit and look at it the next day. Crosshatch pattern it on one unit, vertical the next unit, then go back and see it after it dries.

At worst you are out the cost of paint, but if it works...

Sometimes you just have to risk it and try it. Risk vs reward kinda thing.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

Jet roller? Had to look it up. Naaah.
We're almost all smooth walls. NC if I don't Backroll the first coat I pay the price when I'm sanding it to put on the second. I've done it. Not backrolled. 
Sometimes I will use two tips certain things, to get away without the Backroll. I'll cut in with a .213 maybe and roll out with a .519. Just carry it in my hand and switch back and forth.
.519 is pretty much our production tip. That said. I'll put a thousand gallons or more on it and the first hundred is kind of like painfully slow. Then it breaks in and u don't want to break in another. Probably it is akin to a 627 then. I'm going to try one of them. A new .627. See why guys are going right to it. Anything that might give you a leg up it is dum not to give a shot.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

richmondpainting said:


> I know how the numbers work ect....i was just asking if they made a 24 inch fan with less out put...i don't see why you would ever need anything over a 17
> 
> ..







Think about it this way. A 1227 actually doesn't put out any more paint per inch of fan pattern than a 517. Yes, a .27 orifice size is substantially bigger than a 17, but the paint is spread out over more than twice the area. You wouldn't want a 1217 (I doubt if they even make them) because it would be painfully slow spraying.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

driftweed said:


> Flat paint?
> 
> Dont backroll a unit and look at it the next day. Crosshatch pattern it on one unit, vertical the next unit, then go back and see it after it dries.
> 
> ...





Jmayspaint said:


> Think about it this way. A 1227 actually doesn't put out any more paint per inch of fan pattern than a 517. Yes, a .27 orifice size is substantially bigger than a 17, but the paint is spread out over more than twice the area. You wouldn't want a 1217 (I doubt if they even make them) because it would be painfully slow spraying.


So he got you to bite, too, eh? :jester:

The smallest I see Graco listing is a 1221.

I think the GWB contractors who prime their own work would go for Richmond's mythical 1210. They'd use it, and they'd book! Think of the coverage! Around here, I'll swear they try for 1000 ft^2/gal, this could help them achieve it.


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

Just left S.W. store, they are demoing this roller next week. I will go and report back to you my painting brethren! Heck I will see if I can demo it on a job as well.

Back to your regularly scheduled hijack about massive tipsizes


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

driftweed said:


> Just left S.W. store, they are demoing this roller next week. I will go and report back to you my painting brethren! Heck I will see if I can demo it on a job as well.
> 
> Back to your regularly scheduled hijack about massive tipsizes


Let us know how it goes....for the price I will probably just pick a couple up in the near future....moving my office so I might wait till winter hits...


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## A+HomeWork (Dec 10, 2010)

richmondpainting said:


> I know how the numbers work ect....i was just asking if they made a 24 inch fan with less out put...i don't see why you would ever need anything over a 17
> 
> I used a 413 on a house a few weeks ago and the paint had no where to go...



I always use a 415 on brick homes where fascia and soffitts are all that's being painted.


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

A+HomeWork said:


> I always use a 415 on brick homes where fascia and soffitts are all that's being painted.


We do alot of cedar siding and the 311 is best for us.


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

Update: Tried one out today hooked up to graco 695 sprayer. These guys thought this thing through. Every issue I brought up was quickly addressed:

Corners or places a 9' roller WON'T get: The tip is adjustable, simply adjust the angle and carry on in tight spots.

I want an 18" version: It supports an 18" sleeve but you have to get a separate frame.

You can buy extension to do stairwells

It sprays on the DOWNSTROKE only, this is because the tip shoot directly under the roller sleeve, not on top. You will have to adjust your technique a little. I used the example of a Blow and go where you want to roll both directions, and they laid out 6 sheets of plywood side by side against the store to simulate a wall. I then did in fact use my normal technique of holding the trigger wide open rolling both directions, but as the roller only caught on the downstroke I had to double back dry to make the finish uniform. So it can be done. But it would be advised to spray on the downstroke only. At first this technique is awkward, but once you get a hang of it your back to full speed.

Cleanup for color changes: Remove roller cover and do your normal routine (change or clean), purge the sprayer as normal. 

Issues: My main issue with this would be switching from the jet roller to a gun. However a simple quick disconnect on the hose would solve that issue.

The fact that you tilt the tip 90 degrees greatly reduces the need to switch between the roller and a gun.

Team this up with an 18" roller and I promise you can definitely eliminate manpower, and time spent on the job. I will most likely buy this tool, regardless of cost.:thumbup:

Good job Graco!


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

I will be trying one again friday. Any questions anyone has I will be glad to have addressed and report back.


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

Interesting.... my main hang up with powerrollers is that the hose is a pita.... so how would u save on manpower by eliminating the backroll guy? Is it practical for ceilings?

What type of scenario is this best suited for?


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

bryceraisanen said:


> Interesting.... my main hang up with powerrollers is that the hose is a pita.... so how would u save on manpower by eliminating the backroll guy? Is it practical for ceilings?
> 
> What type of scenario is this best suited for?


We've mainly used ours on ceilings, since we occasionally encounter smooth ceilings and textured walls.

I thing it does best on wide-open spaces; offsets, nooks and crannies probably negate most of the gains.


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

I just texted my rep on grabbing me two of them for some long hallways we have to roll out


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## oldccm (Jan 23, 2013)

Guess I'll have to try the new ones out again. Been a while since I've done it.


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

bryceraisanen said:


> Interesting.... my main hang up with powerrollers is that the hose is a pita.... so how would u save on manpower by eliminating the backroll guy? Is it practical for ceilings?
> 
> What type of scenario is this best suited for?


The hose is always a pita you just learn to live with it.

Manpower savings: I will use a blow n go as an example

Traditional:1 man sprays non stop the other backrolls (both do prep)
Jet Roller: Equipped with the 18" roller and a quick disconnect on you jet pole, hose, and gun and a shutoff valve. This same man can now carry the gun in his back pocket, attach pole and go to town. When he gets to a spot he needs the gun (small closets) he turns the valve, relieves pressure, swaps to the gun. Then afterwards can quickly switch back to the pole for the remainder 80% of the surfaces that can be painted with it.

So if 2 guys could prep and paint the unit in say 3 hours, that's 6 man hours. But if 1 guy can do it in 4 hours you just won the game. In volume of say 20 units you just saved 40 man hours labor.

Now, can you do a two tone with this? No. I believe edging the wall to the ceiling will be a pain. However, if I can get my hands on one and try it, i could very well be proven wrong. So the devil is in the detail here, but every tool has a weakness.


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

I have graco coming out to or job site monday to demo it for me....I'll fill you guys in later


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

I saw the demo today. I bought a nine inch set up for $325 and he had the 18 inch attachment which will cost around $200 and be available in a couple weeks.

I'm not sure on all of it right now....but I know it cuts out dipping the roller and getting paint drips on the floor possibly. ..i wouldn't want to be the guy rolling out the ceiling with it but we will find out how it goes


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## Mike2coat (Nov 12, 2013)

I bought the regular setup 3' from KM because my SW store did not have one, I was in a hurry to paint a 14 room med office alone,it was unoccupied. I also used a 695. It worked great. I covered dark low sheen accent walls with two good coats of PM 200. I papered a hair above the rubber base and went to town. I experimented with the spray tip directly sprayed on the 9" roller and also at a 90 deg on the down stroke. I cut in the corners with the spray tip. Im sure i saved time. Probably better for long walls.


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

Mike2coat said:


> I bought the regular setup 3' from KM because my SW store did not have one, I was in a hurry to paint a 14 room med office alone,it was unoccupied. I also used a 695. It worked great. I covered dark low sheen accent walls with two good coats of PM 200. I papered a hair above the rubber base and went to town. I experimented with the spray tip directly sprayed on the 9" roller and also at a 90 deg on the down stroke. I cut in the corners with the spray tip. Im sure i saved time. Probably better for long walls.


How do you think this would work on eifs?


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

Any more reviews on the key roller? 
My paint store just got one, i like that i don't have to use the roller if i don't want to. They're selling it for $400 (including taxes). Is that a good price?


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## TorresPainting1 (Oct 13, 2014)

journeymanPainter said:


> Any more reviews on the key roller?
> My paint store just got one, i like that i don't have to use the roller if i don't want to. They're selling it for $400 (including taxes). Is that a good price?


My SW Rep quoted me $300. Going to pick it up tomorrow. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using PaintTalk.com mobile app


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Given CDN taxes and the usual disparity in the prices of power tools between the two countries. That price seems about right, Journeyman.

Of course, you *could* come down, visit the outlet malls, the casinos, fill up on cheap gas, and pick one up here in the states....


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

I used the titan version for awhile in vacant houses and new construction. It worked ok but I could never find a good nap for it. All of them sucked big time. 

This setup seems to fix that problem, but I can't imagine it is worth using on occupied repaints. 

If I ever get back into new construction I might pick one up, though. Or if I find one clearanced out somewhere.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

Hines Painting said:


> I used the titan version for awhile in vacant houses and new construction. It worked ok but I could never find a good nap for it. All of them sucked big time.
> 
> This setup seems to fix that problem, but I can't imagine it is worth using on occupied repaints.
> 
> If I ever get back into new construction I might pick one up, though. Or if I find one clearanced out somewhere.


I'm bidding on an 3 stair wells (carpets being removed), and a fairly big(for the size of my company) commercial tilt up repaint. Trying to find small ways to improve speed and efficiency, though this would be fairly good


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

journeymanPainter said:


> I'm bidding on an 3 stair wells (carpets being removed), and a fairly big(for the size of my company) commercial tilt up repaint. Trying to find small ways to improve speed and efficiency, though this would be fairly good


The problem with those might be that you have an extension wand to reach up but you can't shorten it to do the skinnier working spaces.

I have a spray roller, might be a jet roller, not sure. It was given to me with 4 extra poles that reach a max of 22 feet! just haven't used it yet. the poles of course need to be wrenched together, so it's for big walls, big spaces.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

ridesarize said:


> The problem with those might be that you have an extension wand to reach up but you can't shorten it to do the skinnier working spaces.
> 
> I have a spray roller, might be a jet roller, not sure. It was given to me with 4 extra poles that reach a max of 22 feet! just haven't used it yet. the poles of course need to be wrenched together, so it's for big walls, big spaces.


The one i was looking at came with 2 extension pieces for a maximum of maybe 4 feet


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

Oh btw also, the roller/spray set up I have, has a swivel at the housing so it can spray at any angle. Above the roller, below the roller, or on the roller itself.

Guys wondering about spraying gwb earlier in thread; I use a 621, sometimes 619.

I don't how in the heck one could spray with a 517 and backroll behind that, that paint dries in too fast, and it is too slow if it was possible. I have tried it when we were stuck with a smaller pump one time.

The largest tip i've used on GWB was an 827, no backroller needed.
Largest tip used on eifs was and cement block was a 935, still have it too.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

ridesarize said:


> Oh btw also, the roller/spray set up I have, has a swivel at the housing so it can spray at any angle. Above the roller, below the roller, or on the roller itself.
> 
> Guys wondering about spraying gwb earlier in thread; I use a 621, sometimes 619.
> 
> ...


Yeah, this one you can too. Actually you can remove the roller cage and use it as a small angle extention sprayer. Comes with a 721 as well


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

journeymanPainter said:


> Yeah, this one you can too. Actually you can remove the roller cage and use it as a small angle extention sprayer. Comes with a 721 as well


Coolio


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Gough said:


> No, sorry if that wasn't clear in my earlier posts. I've been talking about textured walls and ceilings.
> 
> That being said, what seems to show on smooth GWB seems to be 99% the blems in the taping.


Exactly. That is why on slick finishes the back roll is used to provide a slight texture to it so that it hides a bit better. The way they bang the work out the imperfections in smooth finishes is often not a quality finish, so back roll is imo the best way to go unless it is a true level 5 and has been propperly prepped. 




richmondpainting said:


> The walls are big and textured...purple and yellow in color.


And no doubt commercial egg or semi? Which will show even more imperfections. Trying to skip the back roll imo is just asking for problems. 



Gough said:


> We see problems with other outfits backrolling on textured GWB: roller tracks, stripes, etc. I think it's mainly from either skimping on material or letting the sprayman get too far ahead of the guys rolling. On the typical textures around here, it just seemed an extra, unnecessary step.


Poor back rolling typically will either be a lack of experience or just simply operator error as you mentioned from either the grunt and or the sprayman. 



richmondpainting said:


> I just picked up a Graco 1227 tip....
> 
> Any pointers?


Move quickly.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

journeymanPainter said:


> Yeah, this one you can too. Actually you can remove the roller cage and use it as a small angle extention sprayer. Comes with a 721 as well


We've used ours more in the plain extension mode than we have with the roller.


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