# what is the best primer? Why do I need to prime?



## Burke painting (Oct 23, 2018)

As painters we use many different products to achieve the best results for your home. No one primer is better over the others but why do we need to prime? 

Priming can seal a surface, lock down peeling, prevent stains from coming through, prevent water from soaking in, bock rust and more every primer is unique to the situation and often you might need two different primers before you start painting. Not only does the primer you chose has the ability to give the best adhishion for your paint it will actually cause your paint to last longer and look newer well longer then any surface that was not primed. Things that will happen if you skip priming or use the wrong primer is peeling, cracking, wood splitting, premature sheen loss, uneven fading, and bubble forming.

If you have some of your favorite primers then list them hear I would love to try them. One of my favorites for peeling is peel stop triple thick.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Here are my main movers: Superspec253, 046, 094, 217, stix, corotech v155


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## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

I like the Multi-surface primer from SW. I use a lot of 123 and California Paints version of 123 which is Fixall, another multi-purpose primer with very good bonding characteristics. If anyone comes out with a true, stain-blocking, all-purpose LATEX primer, well that would be nice.


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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

i use primer but worked for a few companies who claim egg does just as good as job on bare drywall


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## Mr Smith (Mar 11, 2016)

Our old friend Scott Burt has a nice review of Kilz Max. I've used it and it's very good. I bought it at Home Depot but it's pricey. https://topcoatreview.com/2012/06/kilz-max-a-prime-mover/

For an inexpensive drywall primer/sealer Kilz General Purpose waterbased primer is excellent.

BIn shellac based primer I use for cabinet painting on any surface.

Dulux Gripper is a great interior/exterior bonding primer. So is Inslx Stix

Coverstain is a good oil-based primer.

Every paint company has an acceptable drywall sealer.

XIM Uma is a premium WB bonding primer

Gardz is an excellent waterproof sealant for drywall in bathrooms or laundry rooms.


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## rosespainting (Mar 16, 2014)

the 2 I use the most of, and always have in the truck are:
bulls eye 123 for an all purpose latex primer.
Coverstain for an all purpose oil base, and stain blocker.

I also use stix when I feel 123 is not adequate.
I like BM long oil, for exterior wood (we do a lot of mahogany railings). 
and BIN for cabinets, furniture, or really high end trim.

I recently started using Mad Dog primer on things that are already problems. Seems to work pretty good.


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## PaPainter724 (Apr 22, 2016)

The best drywall primer I've ever used was Muralos power hide. I don't know if California paints renamed it or ditched it altogether but I've personally never found better. PPG 6-2 is my go to primer these days. Its excellent as well. 

For bonding primers I'm all about seal grip. 

And if I really need to stain kill I hit it with Bin.


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## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

"Why do we need to prime?" You know, that is a very good question. I know HO's who slap a coat of paint on old varnished woodwork and it sticks like "white on rice" for 20 years. I sand, prime, paint trying to do it the right way and it scuffs off like nobody's business. What gives? Makes you wonder if priming is "all that." I still think it is, but, I've seen enough cases where an amateur HO just slaps something on and it lasts for years.


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## PaPainter724 (Apr 22, 2016)

Gymschu said:


> "Why do we need to prime?" You know, that is a very good question. I know HO's who slap a coat of paint on old varnished woodwork and it sticks like "white on rice" for 20 years. I sand, prime, paint trying to do it the right way and it scuffs off like nobody's business. What gives? Makes you wonder if priming is "all that." I still think it is, but, I've seen enough cases where an amateur HO just slaps something on and it lasts for years.


Lol, I know what you mean. Primer isnt really for making things stick, although that's a benefit. Primers main function is simply to make the topcoat look good. And that's all I really use it for.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

PaPainter724 said:


> Lol, I know what you mean. Primer isnt really for making things stick, although that's a benefit. Primers main function is simply to make the topcoat look good. And that's all I really use it for.


As I’ve often noted, I live in the land of textured walls and ceilings. And unless there are specific problems that need to be addressed by a primer, I rarely use them. However, I recently had occasion to repaint some smooth walls that had previously been wallpapered. Granted, I needed a primer coat to guard against paste residue problems, but even so, I could see where the ability to even out a top coat sheen on smooth surfaces by applying a primer could be beneficial.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

why not use a paint with.......i can't do it.


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## PaPainter724 (Apr 22, 2016)

RH said:


> PaPainter724 said:
> 
> 
> > Lol, I know what you mean. Primer isnt really for making things stick, although that's a benefit. Primers main function is simply to make the topcoat look good. And that's all I really use it for.
> ...


I think a lot of painters go absolutely overboard with primers. I know guys that will accept nothing short of BIN when SealGrip or Gripper, etc will be more than enough. And then they'll use cheap PVA primer from HD for fresh drywall because that's what they were taught 20 years ago. Lol I was called a hack because I refused to prime an already surface when I knew a quick sand down with 120 would do a better job of cleaning up the wall.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

Interior I usually use 123 or BM 046, for exteriors I just started using California Problem Solver. I thin it a little...I have never used a oil primer that levels so well. I Use Mad Dog for exteriors that are beaten up. When doing cabinets I use Califoria Grip Coat. I find it much easier to work with than Stix.

Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk


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## Fman (Aug 20, 2011)

I was shocked at how many legit paint companies throw on a coat of SW eggshell as *primer* on raw sheetrock and then finish it off with a topcoat of the same. Yeah, it *works* but, if the contract calls for a primer and two finish coats, why not prime first? I guess that's why I'm poor and one or two of those companies are still in business.


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## 804 Paint (Jan 31, 2014)

PaPainter724 said:


> Lol, I know what you mean. Primer isnt really for making things stick, although that's a benefit. Primers main function is simply to make the topcoat look good. And that's all I really use it for.




So like, that bathroom door I just painted after thoroughly cleaning and scuffing and dusting where the paint is now bubbling and flakes off with a light scratch of the fingernail wouldn’t have been helped by a coat of oil primer or BIN? Dang!


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## PaPainter724 (Apr 22, 2016)

804 Paint said:


> PaPainter724 said:
> 
> 
> > Lol, I know what you mean. Primer isnt really for making things stick, although that's a benefit. Primers main function is simply to make the topcoat look good. And that's all I really use it for.
> ...


Depends on the paint. There are tons of water based paints that stick to oil just fine even without any primer. Also, scuffing is not the same as abrading. Adhesion is totally possible as long as you have a mechanical bond. 

I'm not saying that primer can't be useful in those situations. Just that it's used more than needed.


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## PaPainter724 (Apr 22, 2016)

Useful article that's relevant. 

https://www.materialstoday.com/metal-finishing/features/fundamentals-of-paint-adhesion/


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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

Fman said:


> I was shocked at how many legit paint companies throw on a coat of SW eggshell as *primer* on raw sheetrock and then finish it off with a topcoat of the same. Yeah, it *works* but, if the contract calls for a primer and two finish coats, why not prime first? I guess that's why I'm poor and one or two of those companies are still in business.


if its commercial who cares? someones home id say forsure.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Fman said:


> I was shocked at how many legit paint companies throw on a coat of SW eggshell as *primer* on raw sheetrock and then finish it off with a topcoat of the same. Yeah, it *works* but, if the contract calls for a primer and two finish coats, why not prime first? I guess that's why I'm poor and one or two of those companies are still in business.



You can find promar200 on on 10m+ homes at the YC so that shouldn't come as _too much_ of a surprise


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> You can find promar200 on on 10m+ homes at the YC so that shouldn't come as _too much_ of a surprise


in socal it was usually cheaper than 200. more like pm700.


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## PaPainter724 (Apr 22, 2016)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Fman said:
> 
> 
> > I was shocked at how many legit paint companies throw on a coat of SW eggshell as *primer* on raw sheetrock and then finish it off with a topcoat of the same. Yeah, it *works* but, if the contract calls for a primer and two finish coats, why not prime first? I guess that's why I'm poor and one or two of those companies are still in business.
> ...



I've worked for a company that did this. Promar200 on the highest end homes. For another 250k you could get superpaint lol.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

Here in Austin, they use PPG Multipro on wasll ($10 a gallon) and use oil base on the trim. The trim is probably primed with the multipro as well....

I'll tell you what though... Back in Reno, when I painted Tracts for a bit, we would spray one coat of Kelly Moore 550 (flat) on the walls, then when the trim was put up, we would spray the same paint on the trim to prime it. It sanded well, and never had any adhesion problems, and we would spray 1650 semigloss enamel on top, and it looked great, and was pretty durable, and touched up good as well, even the walls which were sprayed with one coat and not backrolled. In all fairness though, the walls were prepcoated before texture. Thats the only reason we didnt backroll. 

Im about ready to go back to that system...


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## SwampCat (Aug 31, 2018)

Fman said:


> I was shocked at how many legit paint companies throw on a coat of SW eggshell as *primer* on raw sheetrock and then finish it off with a topcoat of the same. Yeah, it *works* but, if the contract calls for a primer and two finish coats, why not prime first? I guess that's why I'm poor and one or two of those companies are still in business.


Every comercial outfit does it.You will be out bid if you don't.If you do commercial and factor in the labor for priming you will be consistently under bid.But also it is climate controlled so it's rarely a problem.I painted a hospital that way.No one primes interior.I myself will spray flat white on everything two coats of super paint on trim cut and roll walls done.if there is a stain I'll spray kills or zinzer from a rattle can.


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## Fman (Aug 20, 2011)

I should have been more clear that I was talking about large, successful commercial companies operating this way. These are outfits with a couple of estimators or more that are presumably good enough at their jobs to bid work where they can make money actually priming and putting on two finish coats. And I mean make lots of money. Of course, you can make even more by skipping the time and material of a whole step in the process. But, I've seen the contracts. They call for primer plus 2 finish coats- not simply 2 coats of 200 Eggshell. So, I was referring to companies that cheat even though they (presumably) dpn't have.


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## SwampCat (Aug 31, 2018)

I too was blown away when I first saw that most commercial contractors put eggshell on bare drywall.Commercial painters are hacks IMO.


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## Fman (Aug 20, 2011)

SwampCat said:


> I too was blown away when I first saw that most commercial contractors put eggshell on bare drywall.Commercial painters are hacks IMO.


Well, I wouldn't put it that way. I've walked in both worlds but mostly done commercial and, depending on what company you work for, you may me do a lot of high-end work for a commercial outfit that a lot of house painters might not ever see. I always enjoyed the variety of office leases, hotels, hospitals, restaurants, stores, etc. Plus, much of the time you can spit on the floor!


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## PaPainter724 (Apr 22, 2016)

SwampCat said:


> I too was blown away when I first saw that most commercial contractors put eggshell on bare drywall.Commercial painters are hacks IMO.


Lol I've been doing commercial work nearly my entire career and you're more likely to find hacks in residential trying to nickel and dime people because anyone can set up a "painting" crew, but not everyone has 50 grand in the bank to foot payroll, materials and 2 million in insurance policy to start a commercial crew, which mea s we have too much invested to be hacks. In commercial, we pay too much and are paid too much for hacks to make it for very long. I've never bid a job where we don't put all three coats on. And I would never even if I thought I could because when you have a punch list, it's much harder to touch up something that was never primed. 

Also, we constantly are doing level 4 and 5 finishes and painting them. By that very definition our work has to be perfect and believe me we are held to it.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

If commercial companies are not using primer, it means the GC or architect didnt spec it from the get go. Blame them.


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## jennifertemple (Oct 30, 2011)

Orange shellac, seal grip, ANY THING BY INSUL-X!


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## SwampCat (Aug 31, 2018)

PaPainter724 said:


> Lol I've been doing commercial work nearly my entire career and you're more likely to find hacks in residential trying to nickel and dime people because anyone can set up a "painting" crew, but not everyone has 50 grand in the bank to foot payroll, materials and 2 million in insurance policy to start a commercial crew, which mea s we have too much invested to be hacks. In commercial, we pay too much and are paid too much for hacks to make it for very long. I've never bid a job where we don't put all three coats on. And I would never even if I thought I could because when you have a punch list, it's much harder to touch up something that was never primed.
> 
> Also, we constantly are doing level 4 and 5 finishes and painting them. By that very definition our work has to be perfect and believe me we are held to it.


i think you are more likely to find the guy that is the worlds worst,laziest painter that knows enough to wear painters whites and a sherwin williams shirt and blend in on a commercial crew.but I won't disagree with residential painters being hacks too.


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## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

Mr Smith said:


> Our old friend Scott Burt has a nice review of Kilz Max. I've used it and it's very good. I bought it at Home Depot but it's pricey. https://topcoatreview.com/2012/06/kilz-max-a-prime-mover/
> 
> For an inexpensive drywall primer/sealer Kilz General Purpose waterbased primer is excellent.
> 
> ...


Used kilzmax when first came out . It is a decent primer but man oh man does that stuff smell horrible odor.


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## Fman (Aug 20, 2011)

Woodco said:


> If commercial companies are not using primer, it means the GC or architect didnt spec it from the get go. Blame them.


I think primer + two finish coats is standard on contracts and I've never known an architect to NOT spec it. Why would they? It's what they sign off on and, more importantly, what the customer pays for. 

I got *caught* trying to get away with 2 coats of eggshell- as per bosses orders once. The GC told me in no uncertain terms that I'd be putting on 3 coats of paint no matter what type. I convinced my boss to allow me to make that first coat a primer and, although this hurt him deeply, it worked out. Everybody was happy and the job made money.


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## Painting Practice (Jul 21, 2013)

Gardz for problems, RX for peeling, Coverstain for bleeding, SW all purpose for sanded compound and patches, good prep and paint for recoats. added: Loxon for block and brick.


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## Painting Practice (Jul 21, 2013)

SwampCat said:


> I too was blown away when I first saw that most commercial contractors put eggshell on bare drywall.Commercial painters are hacks IMO.


Six months in a Union shop at a well known medical facility before I had to get back out on my own but I never saw an open can of primer during that time. Everything from rusty pipes in tunnels to operating room walls (not scrubbed).


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## goga (Aug 6, 2015)

Have used primers on drywall, peeling with blue tape, have not used primers on drywall, peeling with blue tape.. key is the brush and roll it in pushing.., cuz now "light topping" materials are way too soft to even touch with finger nail, not to mention lean against with key chain on the belt.


Anyways, using primers only in case of stains, raw wood or raw rusty metal, everything else is no matter, just prime it with paint and paint it with the same paint, looks the same, holds the same, feels the same.. why bother.


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## goga (Aug 6, 2015)

Fman said:


> I guess that's why I'm poor and one or two of those companies are still in business.


Your poor is still in business, raze your price and do better job to satisfy the price. I'm not advertising myself, not looking for jobs, ppl calling and asking if I can make their project happen. It is all in the clean look, not just painted surface, floors and surroundings also)


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## Fman (Aug 20, 2011)

goga said:


> Your poor is still in business, raze your price and do better job to satisfy the price. I'm not advertising myself, not looking for jobs, ppl calling and asking if I can make their project happen. It is all in the clean look, not just painted surface, floors and surroundings also)


Well, that clears that up!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

there are hacks at every level and every type of job there is. But the best primer is the one they mix in with Behr Marquee because i see it on TV all the time and that one magazine says it's the best. (that's the kind of hackery the paint stores deal with every day.)


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

PACman said:


> there are hacks at every level and every type of job there is. But the best primer is the one they mix in with Behr Marquee because i see it on TV all the time and that one magazine says it's the best. (that's the kind of hackery the paint stores deal with every day.)



"I *need *a paint with primer in it"


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> "I *need *a paint with primer in it"


"if it doesn't come with a primer in it than i'm not buying it."


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## PaPainter724 (Apr 22, 2016)

Buying a paint without primer is like buying a car without tires.


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## SwampCat (Aug 31, 2018)

Super paint,behr pro,infinity that stuff works just brush it in and apply 3 coats!Behr pro is a monster I gotta say.I don't like it but it works.Make sure to use a chinex brush!


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

:wink:


PACman said:


> "if it doesn't come with a primer in it than i'm not buying it."


Is the primer in the top or bottom of the can?:wink:


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## SwampCat (Aug 31, 2018)

The thing is if you try to paint bare wood with a gloss/semi-gloss paint the wood will absorb coat after coat but with a paint and primer in one the first coat works as a primer and the next coat/coats act as a top coat with an even glossy finish.Your still priming just with the paint not a separate primer.If your spraying say spec houses interior wood work I recommend super paint two coats.Thats where it is at it's best.one sprayer one paint in and out and it does a good job.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Brushman4 said:


> :wink:
> 
> Is the primer in the top or bottom of the can?:wink:


The first half you pour out of course!


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