# Skim coating textured walls



## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

Going to look at a job on Saturday. Customer told me she wants the texture on the walls gone. I told her that
a) I believe the only way to get a smooth finish is to skim coat b) I have never done something like this c) it will not be cheap d) it will not be perfect.
Has anyone done this kind of thing before..if so, how much work is it. And, if I did skim coat would I have to prime walls that have paint with a gloss shee on them? The picture marked "living room" seems to have at least a satin finish.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Hey Pete. It depends how good you are with the trowel. It's Not really that hard. I would personally prime it first to give some "tooth".
Then take off the high spots. 2 skims with a 12 or 14: trowel should do the trick. All purpose CGC mud. Sand with 180 foam back paper after each coat.. Prime again and look for imperfections.


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

I would A. prime over the glossy stuff. B. Hire and sub out to a drywall guy.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Hey Pete. It depends how good you are with the trowel. It's Not really that hard. I would personally prime it first to give some "tooth".
> Then take off the high spots. 2 skims with a 12 or 14: trowel should do the trick. All purpose CGC mud. Sand with 180 foam back paper after each coat.. Prime again and look for imperfections.


Thanks!


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

+1 - hire out to skim coat walls, or 1/4' drywall over the top.

Gardz works well for skim coating.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Your production and outcome will reflect your level of your experience. I've done a few of these with the most challenging being an asbestos laden acoustic (popcorn) ceiling that had been previously painted. I found that skimming in one direction followed with a skim in the opposite direction gave a respectable surface to apply the final skim coat on.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

Holland said:


> +1 - hire out to skim coat walls, or 1/4' drywall over the top.
> 
> Gardz works well for skim coating.


Are you recommending Gardz under the skim coat or on top?


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## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

As someone previously mentioned you need to sand the high spots. Fixing the crack is a different issue than skim coating fix that with screws mesh tape or whatever it needs. Than roll mud on the wall with a Roller and pull it down with a wide knife/trowel. Let it dry sand it and roll one more coat of mud and smooth it with knife. Than sand it.


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## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

Here is a link to a youtube video of a guy doing it not sure if he is good or not but you get the idea.


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## IKnowNothing (Oct 15, 2020)

Reply deleted due to


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## jr.sr. painting (Dec 6, 2013)

Knock down your high spots with a 5-1. Mix up a bag of durabond(brown bag),mesh tape cracks, skim once or twice more with blue lid prime and paint. No need to pre-prime that’s what the durabond is for. Never sand between coats that just amateurish and leaves unnecessary dust clean up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

jr.sr. painting said:


> Knock down your high spots with a 5-1. Mix up a bag of durabond(brown bag),mesh tape cracks, skim once or twice more with blue lid prime and paint. No need to pre-prime that’s what the durabond is for. Never sand between coats that just amateurish and leaves unnecessary dust clean up.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes durabond would stick for sure. Although it's harder to sand, and sanding before final skim coat is usually a necessity imo. Also more difficult to skim with durabond and I certainly would not use 2 different products for fear of colour differences in compounds.
But yes, you gotta fix those cracks with tape first.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Pete Martin the Painter said:


> Are you recommending Gardz under the skim coat or on top?


Durabond would probably stick to the wall without problems, but on an entire wall/ceiling it would make me feel better to put a coat of Gardz on to act as a primer for the fresh plaster. 

The more I think of it, I would hire out. I don't like doing work like that, and would likely not be able to give satisfactory results on a large scale.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Holland said:


> Durabond would probably stick to the wall without problems, but on an entire wall/ceiling it would make me feel better to put a coat of Gardz on to act as a primer for the fresh plaster.
> 
> The more I think of it, I would hire out. I don't like doing work like that, and would likely not be able to give satisfactory results on a large scale.


Im not sure if gardz is really toted as a "bonding" primer..I'd just use something like 123.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Im not sure if gardz is really toted as a "bonding" primer..I'd just use something like 123.


yes it is. Works well for that.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

I skim walls several times a week.

No, you dont need to prime the wall first. The mud is NOT gonna fall off.

Personally, I use lightweight, cuz its FAR easier to sand. Durabond or mixing types will be a nightmare to sand, and will take a LOT longer.

Mix up the mud in a 5 gallon bucket, put shoe protectors on and construction paper over your drops. Roll it on nice and thick with the thickest nap roller you can buy. I do the top half of the wall first, about 6 feet at a time. Grab your 14" blade, and smooth it down, similar to squeegying a window. Move to the next section, repeat. Get a cheap vacuum attached hand sander from lowes, and a good shop vac with a bag, and you can sand it completely dust free. I use 220. It sands quick and easy. Avoid the pole version of this. It just doesnt work right. You need to sand it a little angled to avoid the sanding screen lines on the wall, and use a light touch. You probably have to do two coats to make it paint grade.

To do one wall, from knocking on the door, to saying goodbye, takes me just a little over an hour, including setup and clean up. And it takes about 15 minutes to vac sand the same wall the next day.

Then gardz, to make it bulletproof.

Like others have said though, anything more than a wall or two or a bathroom, I tell the client to hire a drywall guy. But I generally float all my own walls and bathrooms for wallapper.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

Woodco said:


> I skim walls several times a week.
> 
> No, you dont need to prime the wall first. The mud is NOT gonna fall off.
> 
> ...


The home owners have 3 rooms and a hallway that they want done. Thinking that I might suggest a they get a drywall guy.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Pete Martin the Painter said:


> The home owners have 3 rooms and a hallway that they want done. Thinking that I might suggest a they get a drywall guy.


Good idea👌😹


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

Pete Martin the Painter said:


> The home owners have 3 rooms and a hallway that they want done. Thinking that I might suggest a they get a drywall guy.


Why don't you find your own drywall guy and get a quote? A few years ago I painted a friend's bedroom and hallway. He had previously removed all the drywall from the walls. The ceiling was hard popcorn texture. He had a drywall guy skim coat it as well as the living room ceiling. I Gardzed both and painted them. I know it would have taken me a very long time to do what he did as he does this 5 days a week. The drywall was started on a Saturday morning by the contractor and his wife. When I came by at 1pm on Sunday all the drywall was up, taped and mudded - ready for priming!

Why don't you go to Drywalltalk.com (looks like a sister site to this one) and see if you can find someone in your area? If you do find someone that works out, then you will have expanded your business. I did this several years ago here for a 2 story ceiling job I could not do and things worked out very well, thank you Paul! 

futtyos


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## IKnowNothing (Oct 15, 2020)

futtyos said:


> I Gardzed both and painted them.














futtyos gardzyos,
when you get a chance buy a gallon of this product at Benjamin Moore store and try it out in place of Gardz.
Doesn't smell-stink at all like Gardz does, and is an excellent product, and it costs less than Gardz.
When I discovered Corotech I stopped using Gardz. 
Smell/stink of Gardz drove me away from it. 

*Corotech® Clear Acrylic Sealer V027*
Waterborne, acrylic priming agent for priming the week substrates as well as protection/impregnation of acrylic paint layers and plasters exposed in interior and exterior environments. Semi-gloss.






Corotech® Clear Acrylic Sealer V027 - Primers - Interiors - Our Products - farby Benjamin Moore Paints







benjaminmoore.pl





TECHNICAL DATA:


https://benjaminmoore.pl/pub/uploaddocs/benjamin_moore&co_corotech_v027_primer_technical_data_sheet_en_12_2018.pdf



corotechyos


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

After comparing application and performance items in the GADRZ TDS and the Corotech Clear Acrylic Sealer V027 TDS, it doesn't appear they are similar products at all. In fact, it seems the Corotech can be used as a finish product where as the GARDZ is specifically designed as a bare, or problemed surface treatment. Particularly for damaged drywall.

I'm not certain Corotech Clear Acrylic Sealer is the best alternative to GARDZ.


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## monarchski (Jun 21, 2019)

IKnowNothing said:


> View attachment 112590
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting. How long have you been using this in place of Gardz?


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

This & sub it out:

https://www.usg.com/content/dam/USG...de-repair-and-resurfacing-systems-en-PM19.pdf


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## IKnowNothing (Oct 15, 2020)

CApainter said:


> After comparing application and performance items in the GADRZ TDS and the Corotech Clear Acrylic Sealer V027 TDS, it doesn't appear they are similar products at all. In fact, it seems the Corotech can be used as a finish product where as the GARDZ is specifically designed as a bare, or problemed surface treatment. Particularly for damaged drywall.
> 
> I'm not certain Corotech Clear Acrylic Sealer is the best alternative to GARDZ.


English is my second language, I'm not sure about you, but is extremely clear for me reading application and performance of Corotech that it can be used as a primer also.
Not only as a finish product.



https://benjaminmoore.pl/pub/uploaddocs/benjamin_moore&co_corotech_v027_primer_technical_data_sheet_en_12_2018.pdf





> Waterborne, transparent acrylic priming agent for reinforcement and priming gypsum surfaces and mineral plasters as well as protection of decorative effects,
> acrylic plasters and paint layer in interior and exterior environments.
> 
> Semi-gloss. BENEFITS & GENERAL DESCRIPTION:
> ...


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## IKnowNothing (Oct 15, 2020)

monarchski said:


> Interesting. How long have you been using this in place of Gardz?


Discovered Corotech clear acrylic sealer 2 years ago, and used it 5 or 7 times.
Exccelent alternative to stinky Gardz.
In my opinion it has even greater penetration properties than Gardz.
On torn out drywall paper works super great, no need to use stinky oil primer or stinky Gardz to seal it
Priming whole wall (on a staircases, especially with sky lights) to create even surface for eggshell or semi gloss top coat to eliminate flashing from un-even paint absorption.
Increases open time for top coat paint, same as Gardz does.
Priming new drywall and drywall mud to achieve even paint absorption. 
Priming over cheap contractors flat or eggshell paint before applying new paint to eliminate possible un-even absorption.
Excellent primer/sealer.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

I tried the corotech too. It takes a little longer to cure than gardz, but it seemed to do alright. And yes, its FAR cheaper, and better smelling. I got a line on Draw tite. Corotech seems a little closer to draw tite, than gardz IMO.

But for Futtyos: since you usually go over paint, I'll bet the corotech would do great for your purposes, for a lot less than gardz. I think my store charged my $19 for the corotech. I just bought the one gallon. The only reason I didnt keep using it, is its slightly longer dry time, and I got a draw tite supply, which is far more expensive, but I just trust it under wallpaper more.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

futtyos said:


> Why don't you find your own drywall guy and get a quote? A few years ago I painted a friend's bedroom and hallway. He had previously removed all the drywall from the walls. The ceiling was hard popcorn texture. He had a drywall guy skim coat it as well as the living room ceiling. I Gardzed both and painted them. I know it would have taken me a very long time to do what he did as he does this 5 days a week. The drywall was started on a Saturday morning by the contractor and his wife. When I came by at 1pm on Sunday all the drywall was up, taped and mudded - ready for priming!
> 
> Why don't you go to Drywalltalk.com (looks like a sister site to this one) and see if you can find someone in your area? If you do find someone that works out, then you will have expanded your business. I did this several years ago here for a 2 story ceiling job I could not do and things worked out very well, thank you Paul!
> 
> futtyos


I thought about that. Contacted someone that I know that does it...no reply. The problem that I have is that the job is about 45 mins away. I live in a very odd town in which townies do not like to get over the bridge. Anything over the bridge is too far away. So, getting someone to drive 45 mins would be hard. Also, when I met with the HO they had already started the process of finding a drywall guy.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

IKnowNothing said:


> English is my second language, I'm not sure about you, but is extremely clear for me reading application and performance of Corotech that it can be used as a primer also.
> Not only as a finish product.
> 
> 
> ...


True. The Corotech TDS says it can be used as a primer coat as well as a finish coat. But it doesn't say anything about addressing damaged drywall paper. And that is a unique quality of GARDZ. So unless you've experimented with applying Corotech acrylic Sealer to damaged drywall, it remains a completely different product. 

Smell doesn't take the place of science my friend. BTW, I'll forgive you for the insult.


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## IKnowNothing (Oct 15, 2020)

Pete Martin the Painter said:


> I thought about that. Contacted someone that I know that does it...no reply. The problem that I have is that the job is about 45 mins away. I live in a very odd town in which townies do not like to get over the bridge. Anything over the bridge is too far away. So, getting someone to drive 45 mins would be hard. Also, when I met with the HO they had already started the process of finding a drywall guy.


Several years ago when there was a need to skim coat a ceiling I jumped at the opportunity to do it, even tho I never did it before.
I did scraped old popcorn from that ceiling and GC said that he will look for a guy to do the skim coat.
I took that as a chance to learn a new skill.
I was scared to be honest, I would prefer to do my first skim coating on a wall and not on a ceiling.

Because I had no experience I did 3 coats in total. First two coats one after the other and then the sanding and priming.
After primer dried I saw several misses so I did very thin third skim coat.
It ended up very nice, and I was trilled that I didn't chickened out.

Perhaps while waiting for the 'guy' ...try a wall or two.
Give the customer super good price on it since you will be learning on the job.
I understand you would have no idea how long it would take you to do a one wall, so maybe do one wall for free, just charge for the materials.
If customer goes for it, you get a chance to learn a new skill.


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## IKnowNothing (Oct 15, 2020)

Woodco said:


> I tried the corotech too. It takes a little longer to cure than gardz, but it seemed to do alright. And yes, its FAR cheaper, and better smelling. I got a line on Draw tite. Corotech seems a little closer to draw tite, than gardz IMO.
> 
> But for Futtyos: since you usually go over paint, I'll bet the corotech would do great for your purposes, for a lot less than gardz. I think my store charged my $19 for the corotech. I just bought the one gallon. The only reason I didnt keep using it, is its slightly longer dry time, and I got a draw tite supply, which is far more expensive, but I just trust it under wallpaper more.


Gardz as you know is a knock off product of a Draw Tite, and Draw Tite was originally designed to be a concrete floor sealer.
And wall paper guys used it to apply to the walls after old wall paper was removed.
Nowhere on the Data Sheet it was printed that Draw Tite could be used for that application, but if it was good for the concrete floors, wall paper guys who had an imagination 
and understood basic chemistry were brave enough to try on the walls.
And it worked like a charm.
Same thing with the Corotech. No need for the manufacturer to hold our hand* and print in big bold red letters that it can be used on a torn out drywall paper. *

I'm glad that you used it and you found that it was performing closer to the Draw Tite than Gardz.
I never used Draw Tite, but I don't deal with wall papers.
The longer drying time of Corotech is not an issue in my case because I always (almost always) let the primers/sealers to dry overnight.
But I guess with wall paper you guys have different work pace.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I'd actually be more inclined to use Corotech Clear Acrylic Sealer if the TDS _did_ state "Can be used on torn drywall paper." Because, torn drywall paper is such a unique surface problem that until waterborne GARDZ came to the market, only oil based and shellac based primers would work to prevent bubbling under joint compounds.

I'd be more comfortable sharing the properties of a particular product with a customer based on the recommendations of the manufacturer rather than based on the biases of an anonymous member of a social media site.


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## IKnowNothing (Oct 15, 2020)

CApainter said:


> I'd actually be more inclined to use Corotech Clear Acrylic Sealer if the TDS _did_ state "Can be used on torn drywall paper." Because, torn drywall paper is such a unique surface problem that until waterborne GARDZ came to the market, only oil based and shellac based primers would work to prevent bubbling under joint compounds.
> 
> I'd be more comfortable sharing the properties of a particular product with a customer based on the recommendations of the manufacturer rather than based on the biases of an anonymous member of a social media site.


Quote from Corotech TDS:
*Due to the excellent reinforcing and penetrating properties product is suitable for use as a primer/sealer of gypsum surfaces (gypsum filling compounds, drywalls)*

Quote from CA:
*I'd actually be more inclined to use Corotech Clear Acrylic Sealer if the TDS did state "Can be used on torn drywall paper."*

OK, I'm going to write a very nasty email to Corotech and will call them filthy names and will rip them a new one for not holding our hand and not print that info about torn drywall paper in their TDS.
They only addressed the un-torn drywall paper,  those mean bastards.
I guess Corotech was addressing their TDS to professionals and not DIY'rs, and Corotech was under impression that professional will comprehend that if the product is good enough for bunch of much tougher substrates (including on the exterior) then it will be surely good enough to seal wimpy torn out drywall paper.
When I will be ripping them a new one, should I say that I'm doing that on your behalf, or should I just keep it incognito? lol


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

IKnowNothing said:


> Quote from Corotech TDS:
> *Due to the excellent reinforcing and penetrating properties product is suitable for use as a primer/sealer of gypsum surfaces (gypsum filling compounds, drywalls)*
> 
> Quote from CA:
> ...


Come on Tony! You especially know that in this litigious climate, everything needs to be spelled out. BTW, I hope you've been doing well.


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## IKnowNothing (Oct 15, 2020)

Yes Carol, I'm doing great. Especially after I stopped using that stinky Gardz. 
It gave me such a big headache that I had to stop posting here for 6 months.
Gardz stinks like farts. 
Sorry futtyos, lol


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

IKnowNothing said:


> Yes Carol, I'm doing great. Especially after I stopped using that stinky Gardz.
> It gave me such a big headache that I had to stop posting here for 6 months.
> Gardz stinks like farts.
> Sorry futtyos, lol


I don't disagree that GARDZ stinks like Possum piss. I actually went back to using BIN because of the smell.


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## IKnowNothing (Oct 15, 2020)

CApainter said:


> I don't disagree that GARDZ stinks like Possum piss. I actually went back to using BIN because of the smell.


Compared to Gardz and Bin when you try Corotech you will think that you are priming with an expensive french perfume. 
One day on the job site I was tempted to add to my brandy.


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## celicaxx (May 29, 2015)

If you're in Massachusetts you might have actual plasterers where you live. I would use a plasterer over a drywaller for this kind of work. They would get it done in less time with no sanding. 

Anyway, I've written in a popcorn thread my own personal preferences/possibilities for skimcoating, but my preference is actually build up with hot mud (Easysand, not Durabond) and use a bonding agent (Plaster Weld or Quikrete Concrete bonding agent) to bond the first coat to whatever is there now. Hot Mud is way better as while it sets it can be tooled down, and if you have say, 20 minute mud, you can apply 2-3 coats in one day to build it up how you want it, and tool it down right at the end while it's setting. Then if you're OK with some sanding, it doesn't have to be completely mirror plaster smooth, for your final coat use a very very thin coat of All Purpose to fill any holidays. The final coat being All Purpose is better because Easysand is not that easy to sand, and being somewhat "hot" it has a tendency to flash a little bit with paint on top sometimes, so a final coat of All Purpose gives a sacrificial sanding layer. 

This way your overall sanding is a lot less and you probably won't even need power sanding, just light pole and sponge sanding, as you're not shaping the surface by sanding it, you're just knocking down about 1mm or so. 





This is a plasterer I love watching on Youtube doing a room with very similar texture, using veneer plaster. Veneer plaster is not sandable and can only be tooled down flat, but you can use Easysand in a similar manner (and indeed he does in some videos) and have it be sandable, but the working quality for tooling it down isn't as good as a veneer plaster, but you don't get possible paint adhesion issues due to plaster PH and you can sand it, which you'd want as a noob. But if you got an actual plasterer to come in and do a veneer coat over everything, it would be this process he's doing, except possibly it would be base/finish and not just a thick coat of veneer only as he's doing. 





This could be another tool, too, that could make life easier for you, and currently they're very popular in the UK for their type of plasters, where plaster is still predominant in residential construction. The cheapest one you can buy stateside is a Marshalltown Proskim, but that could be helpful for you. 





That's the Marshalltown Proskim.


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## CJK Colorado (May 23, 2021)

I've done a similar job. 

My technical process, in a nutshell:
1. Knock down the high spots first / wear a respirator if you aren't sure what's under the surface; I'd suggest a 3M respirator rated for asbestos dust just in case
2. Address any wall repairs before skim coating
3. I use all-purpose joint compound, as it has higher adhesive content for the first skim coat, with water added to a 'regular yogurt' texture (not thick, like Greek yogurt)
4. If you're not great with trowel/knife work, consider something like a Magic Trowel (rubber-edged trowel)
5. Become closely acquainted with either or both of sand paper and drywall screens / wear a respirator 

Note that the rubber of the magic trowel will 'look' quite flat & even, yet will also follow contours. So it won't be _perfectly_ flat.

In terms of priming before applying a skim coat, it really depends upon the underlying surface. If after knocking down high spots the brown underlayment on drywall is showing through? Yes, definitely prime with a product like Gardz so that bubbling won't show through days or weeks after the skim coat. However, since I tend to use a base layer with a higher glue content, I don't necessarily prime the whole surface.

My client process, in a nutshell:
I talk through with the client if they are thinking, essentially, about a Level 4 (quite flat, not perfect) drywall finish. Or a Level 5 (factory flat) finish. With a Level 4 finish and, say, a high-hiding, flat(ter) paint, it will look quite flat when done. On the flip side, if the client wants Level 5? Time to call in a drywall pro.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

IKnowNothing said:


> Yes Carol, I'm doing great. Especially after I stopped using that stinky Gardz.
> It gave me such a big headache that I had to stop posting here for 6 months.
> Gardz stinks like farts.
> Sorry futtyos, lol


No need to be sorry. Gardz does stink. I am looking into the Corotech.

futtyos


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