# wicked old wood



## Flaky (Sep 12, 2008)

When a house built in 1674 was torn down 20 years ago, someone saved some of the woodwork and used it on one wall around the fireplace in their new home. I think it's really cool. 4 photos:

http://theoldehousepainter.com/fileserver/1-fireplace.jpg
http://theoldehousepainter.com/fileserver/2-cupboard.jpg
http://theoldehousepainter.com/fileserver/3-door.jpg
http://theoldehousepainter.com/fileserver/4-carving.jpg

All they know about what's on it is that the original finish was "buttermilk and cranberry juice". (That's actual buttermilk and cranberry juice, not designer color names.) They want to do something to brighten it up and give it more of a glow, without changing the character of it. I'm guessing the thing to use is some kind of wax or furniture polish. With anything else, too much of the existing finish would have to be removed first, so the shellac, varnish, rubbing oil or whatever could adhere or penetrate.

Any advice?


----------



## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Is the farmer daughter around while you do the job? Anything you put on this will change the look, I would test a site first, and let the owners approve it.Looks like the wood really needs to be cleaned good.No gloss finish for sure.


----------



## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

I would have to see the wood in person to give accurate advice because I see too many inconsistencies in the finish already. Achieving the finish the client wants is going to be a specialty coating in *my opinion*, and certainly not something that can be prescribed over the net.


----------



## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

WisePainter said:


> I would have to see the wood in person to give accurate advice because I see too many inconsistencies in the finish already. Achieving the finish the client wants is going to be a specialty coating in *my opinion*, and certainly not something that can be prescribed over the net.


These are the one's I don't even like to mess with.People don't know what they are asking on this kind of thing. I guess if you are dead set on doing this project I would have the people look at samples of wood and ask them to pick out a color of wood that they would shoot for, this would help you at least know what in their minds when the say lighten the wood up.The main problem you are going to run into is blotchy looking wood.All the worn areas will except stain or oil seal differently.


----------



## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

johnpaint said:


> These are the one's I don't even like to mess with.People don't know what they are asking on this kind of thing. I guess if you are dead set on doing this project I would have the people look at samples of wood and ask them to pick out a color of wood that they would shoot for, this would help you at least know what in their minds when the say lighten the wood up.The main problem you are going to run into is blotchy looking wood.All the worn areas will except stain or oil seal differently.


$pecialty coating$ are sometimes worth the headache though, although the price has to be 3x what you think is reasonable to make it profitable.


----------



## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

WisePainter said:


> $pecialty coating$ are sometimes worth the headache though, although the price has to be 3x what you think is reasonable to make it profitable.


What would you call a specialty coating?


----------



## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

johnpaint said:


> What would you call a specialty coating?


Any application that makes me nervous, or will require me to think.


----------



## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

That's what I thought.


----------



## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

You know I have never used this stuff, but have any of you ever used a furniture refinishing oil that is suppose to clean wood and at the same time add kind of a light oil to it?This might be worth a try.


----------



## sage (Apr 29, 2007)

whatever is done it will require a test spot. Formby's has 2 products I have used before on furniture, Deep Cleaning Build up Remover & Penetrating Oil Treatment.
Tung oil would brighten it up but it would not even out the blemished areas but that may or may not be what the HO wants.
My neighbor is restoring a home built in the 1800's. They tung oiled the orginal pine floors. It has a glow but again the blemishes are still there.
Good luck, looks like it might be a cool house.
Sage


----------



## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Flaky,

Another treatment around these parts was linseed oil and turpentine. To me, the warm tones and glow of those old pine boards look like every other 17th & 18th century fireplace of that ilk that were rubbed with linseed and turps.

Problem with linseed and turps is that the odor is REAL bad and it does tend to darken the wood some. Linseed will blacken in the sun. 

The last one I did (stripped of paint and rejuvenated) was finished by rubbing a furniture oil into the wood with extra fine steel wool. I can't remember if it was one of Formby's oils or a home made concoction - I seem to remember tung oil being part of it. Or maybe common old Danish oil finish (Watco)

There are also some vegetable based wood finishing oils made in Europe. My brother has mentioned the names Livos and Osmo. These give back to the wood organic oils that it needs. 

Frankly, I've never never heard of buttermilk and cranberry juice as a clear finish. Yes, milk was used, but as an ingredient for solid paint, ie milk paint. 

Also, I would advise calling a restoration specialist. There are MANY restoration and finish experts in Mass who can steer you straight. And I know the Cape is full of them. Perhaps Slick has a lead for you.

AND the internet is a great place to learn much.


----------



## TooledUp (May 17, 2008)

If they want to just put some life into the timber without bringing it back to a new looking state (keeping the blotchyness and imperfections/old look) then Danish oil will do that as long as it isn't already coated with a varnish.


----------



## Flaky (Sep 12, 2008)

Thanks for the input, guys.

When I first started searching the Web on this I found some good information about wax here:

http://http://www.briwaxwoodcare.com/use-questions-answered.htm

Since what seems important to the owners is just livening up the general appearance of the woodwork, without making a big job of it, it seems to me wax is probably the way to go. It can apparently be used over anything and isn't hard to remove if someone wants to do some refinishing later. I think they like the fact that there's 300+ years of history built up on the boards and they don't want to disturb it more than necessary. They don't mind that there's some dirt in the finish, but it would be good to clean it up a little to lighten it a bit. 

Maybe test some spots with Formby's build-up remover http://http://www.formbys.com/products/buildup_remover.cfm first as suggested by Sage.

Arch, I'm thinking since there's a lot of orange in the color of the finish, there must be some shellac in it, and it looks pretty thick in places, so I think trying to rub any kind of oil into it wouldn't help.


----------



## sage (Apr 29, 2007)

Couldn't get to the link you suggested, but wouldn't wax turn dark over time? I've seen a set of cabinets done with wax that are 20+ years old, they were very dark and really dull looking.
Sage


----------



## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Sage,

I'm not familiar with wax itself turning darker. Perhaps some impurities in it or that have become embedded in it (soot) made it dark.

Flaky.

I have refinished , repainted, repaired, and otherwise dealt with wax coated wood. Do not believe those who poo poo the difficulty of removal. If you put wax on an unsealed surface, it gets into the grains and pores, especially a soft wood like pine and one close to a heat source, like the fire. Shellac coated oak floors were oft coated with wax, that was, IMO, the optimum floor finish. But the wood was sealed with shellac first.

You think that the orangeness of the wood suggests shellac. The color in your pictures is too red/orange for orange shellac, IMO. You can test with alcohol. Alcohol will break down shellac. I prefer a cheap vodka over a single malt scotch :thumbup: - no, denatured should give you an indication. 

I would still prefer an oil finish. The wood is THIRSTY, it needs a drink. Rubbing an appropriate oil in it will not take much longer than the wax. Do the research, find out what preservators say is best, and sell the HO on what is RIGHT for this historic wood. The HO owes more to the wood than the wood owes the HO. The HO is only the temporary caretaker. 

(can you tell I have great respect for this wood?)


----------



## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

BTW, I was looking at the pix again (I swear I been in this house - in dozens of towns).

this pix:
http://theoldehousepainter.com/fileserver/3-door.jpg

does look like the stain is a little thicker than your average woodstain and oil finish. This may have the cranberry tinted milk paint. 

And as I look at the other pix, it does appear there may be a wax ...... or something on some of the wood. I will temper all my suggestions with the disclaimer that it is real hard to tell by pix alone and without feeling.


----------



## Flaky (Sep 12, 2008)

Arch, I think you're right - I'm going to have to find a professional restorer for advice, probably through the local historical society. Should be interesting. 

Here's some more photos:

On this one I just noticed the door hinge seems to have some of the color of the finish on it:
http://theoldehousepainter.com/fileserver/5-upper left corner.jpg

Wider view of the left side:
theoldehousepainter.com/fileserver/6-cupboard-left.jpg

Close-up contrasting two boards:
http://theoldehousepainter.com/fileserver/7-hooks.jpg

The floor is also interesting:
http://theoldehousepainter.com/fileserver/8-floor.jpg


----------



## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

I am looking at picture #2 and above the ladle and note box I see a heavy sheen difference. What does this wood feel like when you rub your hand over it? Is it slightly tacky due to wax, or does it feel dry in most places?


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Flaky, What about Amber Shellac? Wonder what that would do? Should make it glow and keep its rustic look. What a shame to do anything to it. I've been in a few new homes when they brought in old pieces like this and our job was to make the rest of the house like like the old pieces.


----------



## MNpainter (Jul 17, 2008)

WisePainter said:


> Any application that makes me nervous, or will require me to think.


LMAO :clap: gonna remember tnat one Wise.

steve


----------



## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Flaky,

I'm rethinking my aversiuon to wax. The whiteness in the cracks and crevises and the sheen on some of those boards makes me suspect there was wax before. Take a finger nail (unless you bite them to the quick) and seen if something like wax can scrape off.

If you can fairly well determine wax was used before, you might as well add some more. Can't hurt it anymore. 

Beeswax was an used often, but I am sure there are modern waxes now.

YES, I am intrigued by this situation.

BTW, can you tell us which town this house is in. For some reason I am thinking Chatham.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

MNpainter said:


> LMAO :clap: gonna remember tnat one Wise.
> 
> steve


Yeah I laughed when I read that. So true.


----------



## Flaky (Sep 12, 2008)

WisePainter said:


> I am looking at picture #2 and above the ladle and note box I see a heavy sheen difference. What does this wood feel like when you rub your hand over it? Is it slightly tacky due to wax, or does it feel dry in most places?


Hmm, let me see... It feels smooth like glass and kind of dusty... Which reminds me, I have to clean my computer screen.

(Sorry Wise - couldn't resist it.)


----------



## Flaky (Sep 12, 2008)

daArch said:


> I am intrigued by this situation.
> 
> BTW, can you tell us which town this house is in. For some reason I am thinking Chatham.


It's in Falmouth overlooking Cape Cod Bay. That's all I'm saying because the owners might not appreciate someone with a purple mowhawk traipsing through the dunes looking in windows.


----------



## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

Flaky said:


> Hmm, let me see... It feels smooth like glass and kind of dusty... Which reminds me, I have to clean my computer screen.
> 
> (Sorry Wise - couldn't resist it.)


no problem, being a sloven computer user is your thing obviously...

:jester:

Did you get this job already or are you bidding it currently?


----------



## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Flaky said:


> It's in Falmouth overlooking Cape Cod Bay. That's all I'm saying because the owners might not appreciate someone with a purple mowhawk traipsing through the dunes looking in windows.


Yah think ??? :thumbup: :thumbup:

Besides that, we do need to keep our customer's privacy. 

We can see parts of Foulmouth across Buzzards Bay from my wife's uncle's house in Wareham. Great little town. I guess Woods Hole is actually part of Foulmouth. The tides through the gut there are terriffic, going from Vineyard/Natucket sounds into Buzzards Bay.


----------



## Flaky (Sep 12, 2008)

Thanks a lot for the interest guys!

I'll let you know how it goes. I'm pretty sure they're going to have me do it, but don't know when. They liked the work I did on their kitchen, and might have another room to do too.


----------

