# Trying to understanding HVLP



## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

Just trying to understand a few things - Turbines, needle sizes, air caps and so on.

From what I read - you would need at least a 5 stage or higher to get good results to spray Advance.

I do not really understand what a turbine is and what it does. I'm guessing if you are using a gun with the cup underneath it, you would want strong output of air to suck up the paint and push it out so you would not have to thin it that much. the lower stages machines would have a bit of struggle doing this?. I would guess you would need to thin it down more to work on lower turbine machines.

What if you are using a 2 quart remote pot that is being pressurized by a compressor? Would the number of stages really matter now? I would think not but maybe I'm way off.

If anyone that can explain this that would be great. Just a bit confusing to me.

Also if anyone can also break down the needle and air cap sizes for say shooting advance, oil impervo and even Aura that would also be great. 

Thanks

Pat


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

The turbine- it's pretty much one of the old time vacuum cleaners but with the hose on the exhaust side. Really.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

http://www.spraytechsys.com/literature/wag_lit/wag_pdf/HVLP_training.pdf

This is got a lot of info on it. It's pacific to this machine but really not far as needles and air caps and all that. I have this machine. I can shoot thick materials with a larger needle/air cap. Never had a call for advance.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

Thanks Oden, there is allot of great info in that pdf. 

Pat


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Oden said:


> http://www.spraytechsys.com/literature/wag_lit/wag_pdf/HVLP_training.pdf
> 
> This is got a lot of info on it. It's pacific to this machine but really not far as needles and air caps and all that. I have this machine. I can shoot thick materials with a larger needle/air cap. Never had a call for advance.



I think that'll work since Pat's in Long Beach, CA.:jester: Don't ya love autocorrect??


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

PatsPainting said:


> Just trying to understand a few things - Turbines, needle sizes, air caps and so on.
> 
> From what I read - you would need at least a 5 stage or higher to get good results to spray Advance.
> 
> ...


Damn Pat you asked the same question 2 years ago :lol: ...........


PatsPainting said:


> dumb question here but what does each stage do? I have an old graco 1200 that I hardly use. I had it at least 10 years and it never failed to spray what I needed. Its only two stages. I use a 2qt pot with it.
> 
> Pat


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> Damn Pat you asked the same question 2 years ago :lol: ...........


Things change in two years. Technology, memory loss. You know.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> Damn Pat you asked the same question 2 years ago :lol: ...........


I did? lol. 

Pat


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

I can't find it. Can you post the link?

Pat


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

PatsPainting said:


> I can't find it. Can you post the link?
> 
> Pat


Just click the blue arrow on the post a quoted you.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

PatsPainting said:


> I can't find it. Can you post the link?
> 
> Pat


Post #12


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I don't really understand how the turbine stages work either. The only way I have sprayed conventional, including using HVLP guns, has been with compressed air at a constant supply of at least 20 CFM with no drop in pressure.


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## kmp (Jan 30, 2011)

The way i understand turbines to work is each stage is on the shaft but not exactly all in a perfect line. So the first stage is at 12:00, the second is at 12:15 and so on. They all spin at the same speed but at slightly different times. The idea is so that the turbines spin and keep a steady supply of air with no loss of efficiency.That way you can spray heavier material longer with less reduction and not burn up your machine. Two stage for light material 3,4,5,6 stage for heavier material. If anybody knows about sine waves and electricity and how three phase electric works it is kind of similar. It's all about efficiency.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

kmp said:


> The way i understand turbines to work is each stage is on the shaft but not exactly all in a perfect line. So the first stage is at 12:00, the second is at 12:15 and so on. They all spin at the same speed but at slightly different times. The idea is so that the turbines spin and keep a steady supply of air with no loss of efficiency.That way you can spray heavier material longer with less reduction and not burn up your machine. Two stage for light material 3,4,5,6 stage for heavier material. If anybody knows about sine waves and electricity and how three phase electric works it is kind of similar. It's all about efficiency.



Makes perfect sense, thanks for that explanation. My biggest questions is having more stages when using a remote pot make any difference? My thinking is the pot is being pressurized by a different source "The Compressor". The turbine air in this situation has only one job compared to two when using a gun with a cup under it. It does not have to suck, only blow. When I pull the trigger on my gun with out the turbine running and with the compressor on. It shoots out a real long skinny stream of what's ever in the remote pot.

My thinking is, do I really need to spend $1500.00 for a 5-6 stage machine or can I get a new gun like the Graco Edge or something similar for $300.00 and get similar results? 

the below image is the same type as what my machine is.

Pat


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## AbsolutePainting (Feb 9, 2011)

I have had the capspray 115 (6 stage) with the two quart remote cup for a couple of months now. Upgraded from a CS8100 with regular cup gun. The newest style gun is the Maxum Elite split style. I have considerably more time on the older gun and feel it is easier to fine tune...but I'm still learning. I would strongly recommend getting the 5 or 6 stage unit. They accommodate the two quart cup conversion. The turbine unit "pushes" the finish through the fluid hose; no compressor required. I really enjoy the ability to adjust from near airbrush patterns to roughly a 413 tip fan....in any position. Super handy for small cabinet boxes or book cases with fixed shelves.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

Just browsing around and checking prices for the edge gun and ran across Graco's Pro Store. They have wonderful discounts 

Pat


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

LOL!

Okay Pat, the more turbines the more the machine can provide a _constant and consistent volume of air and pressure._ Usually on any cup type sprayer the specs will tell you the volume of air needed. Very important to read and understand that.

Air compressors will usually give you 2 volume readings 40-45psi and 90psi. Then you have to figure in the size of your tank. How much the tank can handle and maintain the air you're going to need. A regular cup gun set-up - I wouldn't go much below a 33 gal tank.

So what you're basically doing is matching the gun specs to the compressor specs. The nice thing is that you're not painting something the size of a vehicle. Most people are under the impression that a HVLP set-up with an air compressor uses less air. Not so. You'll need a lot of air going to the gun, just the gun will only shoot low-pressure.

Turbine units basically work the same way but you don't have the weight, size, and hassle of an air compressor. The adage of buying the biggest, (ie: most turbines), you can stands true for what you can afford.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Pat, just get an Earlex. They do the same thing as any other turbine. Only a couple companies make the motors anyway. Otherwise you are just paying for marketing. Just kidding. 

Scott mentioned that his Apollo runs cooler iirc. I have an OLD Capspray that is still going. My graco was nice but I smoked the motor. 

5 stage minimum and get the 3m PPS system. Devilbis has a system similar to PPS and it is supposed to be cheaper but I get the PPS stuff locally and already had it before I heard about the devilbis version.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Good stuff on this thread.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Great information! Thanks for the thread Pat.

I was always concerned with not having enough steady air flow when spraying. My electric compressor (with 20 gal tank) can barely support a two gallon spray pot. However, my 8 HP gas powered 20 gal compressor kicks ass, but weighs too much to tote around.

After doing a quick search on turbine compressors, and sort of understanding the dynamics between axial verses radial turbines, I can now comprehend how a tankless compressor can provide constant air flow without pressure drop. I'll be looking into getting one of these as soon as possible!


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

DeanV said:


> Pat, just get an Earlex. They do the same thing as any other turbine. Only a couple companies make the motors anyway. Otherwise you are just paying for marketing. Just kidding.
> 
> Scott mentioned that his Apollo runs cooler iirc. I have an OLD Capspray that is still going. My graco was nice but I smoked the motor.
> 
> 5 stage minimum and get the 3m PPS system. Devilbis has a system similar to PPS and it is supposed to be cheaper but I get the PPS stuff locally and already had it before I heard about the devilbis version.


I read somewhere that putting the 3M name on a product has a substantial impact on the price:whistling2:


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

RH said:


> Good stuff on this thread.


I didn't see any bacon. What are you talking about?


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> I didn't see any bacon. What are you talking about?


Here you go Rent an bacon beer mug. :thumbup: :notworthy:











Kevin Bacon art made from Bacon.










Finally here is a nice Bacon sandwich just for you.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

cdpainting said:


> Here you go Rent an bacon beer mug. :thumbup: :notworthy:
> 
> [/URL][/IMG]
> 
> ...


Can I have cheddar cheese and mustard in both buns with that sandwich.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> Can I have cheddar cheese and mustard in both buns with that sandwich.


Coming right up, and your beer in the bacon mug will arrive shortly.


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