# Waterbourne stain blocker



## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

Was at SW today and they gave me a can of this.

Hmmmmm....have they attained the holy grail of anti-reactivating-waterborne-stainblocking?? We'll see.....


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I hope so. We just had bleed through on a WB primer again. Spot prime with bin, but the pine beam still bleed even though it had an existing clear coat on it.


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

I'll try it on some cedar, pine, fur and some water stained drywall...let you know.


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## Toolnut (Nov 23, 2012)

Saw the same stuff yesterday and since it's the same can color and everything as their oil base. They told me this was replacing the oil.


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

I just tested 2 wb primers going over old cabinet finishes. The Sherwin Williams "premium Wall & Wood primer" sprayed like crap {Tailed,even reduced a bit} with my Graco 395 Finishpro so I ended up turning up the pressure to 2600 PSI on airless only.The SW primer had major bleed through. That being said the Sherwin Williams Wall & Wood sanded nicely for an acrylic.

Next up was "Kilz Max" wb primer. It sprayed beautifully on low pressure and air assist. It levelled like glass and there was zero bleed through. I used the Kilz Max to stop the bleed through from the Sherwin Williams Wall & Wood.. I tested these primers on a number of finishes and I'll have to wait and see how well the primers bond.

So far i'm very impressed with the Kilz Max. it is the closest thing to Zinsser Bin (Shellac primer) that I've ever used in a WB 

Kilz Max should stop most bleed thru with one coat but a 2nd coat after a full dry should stop the stubborn types of bleed thru.



http://www.sherwin-williams.com/home-builders/products/catalog/premium-wall-wood-primer/

http://www.kilz.com/primer/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=315214dce5542310VgnVCM100000176310acRCRD


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

SW wall & wood is not a stain blocking primer in waterbase, it used to be called "classic" it sands very nice. I tried the new water reducible primer and liked it. It was over some crap rental cabinets, painted white on the outside, dark stain inside. I just tsp'd the grime off, no sanding, then shot this primer tinted to the full navajo wall color, cabinets were going brown. Also was going over old wallpaper. Dried super quick and shot two coats of solo on the cabinets the same day, I did not sand the primer as it was pretty smooth not totally flat to the touch. I hand textured the walls and seems with all purpose then two coats of solo the next day on walls.

Here is a before and after pic:
http://s872.beta.photobucket.com/user/just_joes_by_mike/media/P3010057_zps3cd35112.jpg.html


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

MikeCalifornia said:


> SW wall & wood is not a stain blocking primer in waterbase, it used to be called "classic" it sands very nice. I tried the new water reducible primer and liked it. It was over some crap rental cabinets, painted white on the outside, dark stain inside. I just tsp'd the grime off, no sanding, then shot this primer tinted to the full navajo wall color, cabinets were going brown. Also was going over old wallpaper. Dried super quick and shot two coats of solo on the cabinets the same day, I did not sand the primer as it was pretty smooth not totally flat to the touch. I hand textured the walls and seems with all purpose then two coats of solo the next day on walls.
> 
> Here is a before and after pic:
> http://s872.beta.photobucket.com/user/just_joes_by_mike/media/P3010057_zps3cd35112.jpg.html



Yeah I realize that about the Sherwin Williams Wall and Wood primer.I used it as a bonding primer and I wasn't expecting any tannin bleed through on those doors. The Kilz Max I was testing is also a stain blocker which is a nice bonus. I kind of lucked out in the testing when the unexpected bleed happened on one door. I must have sanded much of the old finish off or something. Now I know that kilz will handle this problem in the future. I haven't tested kilz over a wide range of tanin bleed problems so BIN is probably still the king of these primers.


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

Zin Smart prime ( aka 123 plus) is another hybrid WB alkyd stain blocker. 
Is pretty good- for more stubborn stains needs the 2nd coat to get it. 
I have had some success with nicotine stains with this.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Personally I think all sw primers suck!


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Paint and Hammer said:


> Was at SW today and they gave me a can of this.
> 
> Hmmmmm....have they attained the holy grail of anti-reactivating-waterborne-stainblocking?? We'll see.....
> 
> ...


 Highly unlikely.


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## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

DeanV said:


> I hope so. We just had bleed through on a WB primer again. Spot prime with bin, but the pine beam still* bleed even though it had an existing clear coat on it.*




old standby - 3lb orange shellac and then BIN.:thumbsup:


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

That is what we did for all the knotty pine. One side of laminated structural beam was a pain to access so it was spot Bin'd and Graham Blockout used. Not good enough.


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## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

DeanV said:


> That is what we did for all the knotty pine. One side of laminated structural beam was a pain to access so it was spot Bin'd and Graham Blockout used. Not good enough.


hey, just noticed your avitar fish !. looks like a fly rod you're holding ?:thumbsup:
Heeeeeeeyyyyyy Steeeeeeeeeve, did a HIJACK here !:whistling2:


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## playedout6 (Apr 27, 2009)

Looks like he has a bigger fish...bigger bait ?


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

King salmon on 8wt fly rod built by me.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Nothing comes close to bin for stains and tannin bleed. Its extra work to even try WB primers.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

I've has great experiences with Vista Paint Primezall.


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## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

ewingpainting.net said:


> I've has great experiences with Vista Paint Primezall.


i'd try it but all the vista stores are located in Calif. i'm convinced that wb products will get better and better. sounds like an excellent new primer.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

straight_lines said:


> Nothing comes close to bin for stains and tannin bleed. Its extra work to even try WB primers.


Yeah, I like to think previously finished pine will be fine, but not the case too often.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

straight_lines said:


> Nothing comes close to bin for stains and tannin bleed. Its extra work to even try WB primers.


That's where I still am with the WB base primers. Solvent based primers, Bin if you like, I know do the job the first time. Time is too valuable to waste never mind the material to try and get cute.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

The fresh starts BM must have been tweaked. They do alright for me. 

But for the tough stuff, I'll bust out the coverstain to kick ass.


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## Masterpiece (Feb 26, 2008)

BrushJockey said:


> Zin Smart prime ( aka 123 plus) is another hybrid WB alkyd stain blocker.
> Is pretty good- for more stubborn stains needs the 2nd coat to get it.
> I have had some success with nicotine stains with this.


I used to use this for occupied interior repair/repaint jobs but finally gave up on it after a few jobs. 

You are absolutely correct though, it will block really light old water stains with one coat but anything more, for us it always required at least a second coat. 

It's so much nicer to use a WB when it comes to cleanup and odor, but the time needed for 2 coats plus adequate drying in between was just too much and I went back to 'low oder/odorless' oil blockers.

I may have to try that KilzMax though, thanks Xmark...


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