# Kem Aqua Plus questions



## aspirebyashley (Feb 9, 2017)

So, i have a kitchen refinishing project coming up. The client would prefer that I use a waterbased product. Usually, on prior finished cabinets, I degloss, sand, prime with an oil based or shellac based primer, follow by precat lacquer or conversion varnish. soooo, none of those are waterbased. Do any of you have experience with the, Sherwin Williams, Kem Aqua plus? Specifically, the plus surfacer. The cabinets for this project are finished in lacquer. Can I use the Kem Aqua Plus Surfacer over that? How well does it sand? Dry times comparable to pre cat? Will it play nice over the hotter lacquer?

I did purchase the retarder Butyl Cellosolve, does this seem to help with microfoaming? 

On site spray will be with an airless Graco Pro LTS 17. any tip recs? I have RAC X 208, 210. should those be ok?

in shop spray of doors, HVLP/ cap spray/ 1.3 or 1.4 tip size ok? 

Thanks for any and all recs!!


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

aspirebyashley said:


> So, i have a kitchen refinishing project coming up. The client would prefer that I use a waterbased product. Usually, on prior finished cabinets, I degloss, sand, prime with an oil based or shellac based primer, follow by precat lacquer or conversion varnish. soooo, none of those are waterbased. Do any of you have experience with the, Sherwin Williams, Kem Aqua plus? Specifically, the plus surfacer. The cabinets for this project are finished in lacquer. Can I use the Kem Aqua Plus Surfacer over that? How well does it sand? Dry times comparable to pre cat? Will it play nice over the hotter lacquer?
> 
> I did purchase the retarder Butyl Cellosolve, does this seem to help with microfoaming?
> 
> ...


Interesting, I tend to take the opposite tact and try and use my HVLP on site (due to lower overspray issues) and my airless in the shop. 

I have not used Kem Aqua so can't speak to it's performance in spraying. 

Just curious, you don't say which Capspray HVLP you have. If it isn't the five stage or six, you _may_ have issues spraying a somewhat heavy acrylic product through your unit without having to over thin it. With that said, I have had great success using SW's Pro-Industrial Multi-Surface Acrylic through my Graco airless with a FF310 tip. Have had some success also spraying it through my four stage Fuji HVLP but more thinning was required.It can run easily as it is, thinning makes you really need to watch it.


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## aspirebyashley (Feb 9, 2017)

Hi, thanks for the reply. Yes, honestly, the only reason I'll be using the airless on site is that it's easier to transport and my hvlp systems are all gravity fed and I like the gun on the airless for maneuvering. To my understanding, the Kem Aqua is pretty thin. I'm going to test run it though, but do have some larger tips if needed. Thanks for taking the time to respond! Still on the hunt for the best waterbased primer to use for this project. My paint rep recommended General Finishes Milk paint with accelerator. Ever tried this?


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

No, never used that primer. Quite a few here do cabinet work and primer preferences seem to span a big range. I've moved away from painting cabinets to refinishing work but I do lots of door painting. On new natural wood doors I've been spraying SW's alkyd exterior primer thinned down to push through my HVLP. Comes out looking great, sands well, and seals new wood, but it may not provide enough grain filling capability for many.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

why doesn't Sherman Williams know?


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

Kem Aqua products are designed for new cabinet work not refinish, unless going over the Kem Aqua line. But even then you have to match up the correct products. Talk to SW about using those in your situation, not sure if they are the best ones. I know from experience using WB lacquers that you will need to heat the house up, at least 78 or they run real bad.


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## aspirebyashley (Feb 9, 2017)

Pacman, exactly &#55357;&#56834;, in my area// everyonnneee uses solvent based lacquers/ I'll be the only person in our town (that I'm aware of) and my Sherwin Williams isn't very experienced with it.


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## PNW Painter (Sep 5, 2013)

You should check to see if Sherwin Williams has a Product Finishes store in your area. 

You might want to look into Valspar Zenith, Target Coatings, Lenmar Duralaq or General Finishes. 


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## MurphysPaint (Nov 23, 2015)

aspirebyashley said:


> Pacman, exactly &#55357;&#56834;, in my area// everyonnneee uses solvent based lacquers/ I'll be the only person in our town (that I'm aware of) and my Sherwin Williams isn't very experienced with it.




I've been focusing on growing the cabinet refinishing aspect of my business and it took about 2 minutes talking to my SW rep to realize that SW is not the ideal supplier for this. Mind you, in Canada we can't get most of the Wood Classics line because of more stringent VOC requirements, but regardless this market segment doesn't seem to be a priority for SW based on my experience.

That being said, I've used Extreme Bond Primer on cabinets, it adheres well but make sure they're thoroughly clean because it won't block stains. Like RH, I've also used MSA on cabinets, and am going to be testing their Alkyd Urethane Enamel in the near future.


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## aspirebyashley (Feb 9, 2017)

MurphysPaint, I totally agree with you! I have a paint representative with HGH Hardware and am able to order many different brands, like Valspar, Gemini, General Finishes.... but becasuse their rep is stretched thin on his route, it's hard to get troubleshooting questions, etc answered. I try to shop local as much as possible and keep hoping that Sherwin Williams will concentrate more on professional finishing products. It's literally like pulling teeth to get a brochure for their glazing, dye stains etc.// that's how I landed on this site. you all have such a concentrated amount of knowledge here! Thanks for responding!


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## Trox (Nov 3, 2016)

I would be concerned with using this product for a recoat. My friend had some old crappy cabinets he said I could practice on. I called SW product finishes and asked them if I could use the BIN Shellac primer. They said they could not guarantee anything since the lacquer is only meant for new wood used with their surfacer primer. The guy there did say he thought it would be fine. Here is my process and finished result...

-TSP clean doors
-220 Sand 
-Bin Shellac Primer
-2 Top coats Kem Aqua Plus in Gloss. 

Anyone know why it would have done this sort of splitting in the paint? Also it appears that waterborne pre-cat epoxy works well according to this paint ninja with pic attached

http://imgur.com/a/Sdd3g
http://imgur.com/a/QNkJ7


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

The Kem Aqua line is sold and serviced by SW's Chemical Coatings division and NOT the stores division. Although the stores CAN order and SELL the Kem Aqua line, they don't have the knowledge or ability to properly SERVICE the line. They are not trained for any of the CC products and technically, according to SW company policy anyway, shouldn't be selling it at all. The chemical coatings product lines are intended for use by OEM customers who have the proper equipment and shops to apply it correctly. Using them in the field is basically a crap shoot, and SW really doesn't want any part of it at a corporate level. That's why they are sometimes not so cooperative about helping people use Kem Aqua on cabinets in conditions other then what an OEM finisher would have available to them. I dealt with this on a daily basis for ten years.

If you can contact someone at one of their Chemical Coatings division stores, they would have a much better understanding of how to use those product lines. However, be forewarned that they might not be to keen on helping you use a product in a way that it isn't really intended.


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## aspirebyashley (Feb 9, 2017)

Trox said:


> I would be concerned with using this product for a recoat. My friend had some old crappy cabinets he said I could practice on. I called SW product finishes and asked them if I could use the BIN Shellac primer. They said they could not guarantee anything since the lacquer is only meant for new wood used with their surfacer primer. The guy there did say he thought it would be fine. Here is my process and finished result...
> 
> -TSP clean doors
> -220 Sand
> ...


Trox, Thanks for your response. Looking at your photo, the only thing I can think of is...
1. Your shellac layer was too thick 
2. Your shellac layer was not dry enough before applying the less "hot" kem aqua


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## aspirebyashley (Feb 9, 2017)

aspirebyashley said:


> So, i have a kitchen refinishing project coming up. The client would prefer that I use a waterbased product. Usually, on prior finished cabinets, I degloss, sand, prime with an oil based or shellac based primer, follow by precat lacquer or conversion varnish. soooo, none of those are waterbased. Do any of you have experience with the, Sherwin Williams, Kem Aqua plus? Specifically, the plus surfacer. The cabinets for this project are finished in lacquer. Can I use the Kem Aqua Plus Surfacer over that? How well does it sand? Dry times comparable to pre cat? Will it play nice over the hotter lacquer?
> 
> I did purchase the retarder Butyl Cellosolve, does this seem to help with microfoaming?
> 
> ...


Follow up to my original post

Kem Aqua Plus Surfacer saved for my next unfinished wood project.

decided to go with my comfort zone and went with the oil based primer- SW had a good deal on 5 gallon of "Fast Dry Oil Primer", sprayed beautifully. Dried quickly, however I did wait until the next day to sand.. It sanded well but not as easily as BIN shellac primer. It will not be my go-to primer, but did the job. 

Sprayed Kem Aqua Plus today- Graco airless sprayer with a RAC 208 tip- a tad on the chilly side here today for this application- around 60. As previously stated above... got the runs! Sprayed unthinned, but did add Butyl Cellosolve to help with microfoaming... It lays down beautifully/ BUT... learning curve learned/ lol / very light spray rec./ good spray tech. critical./ not forgiving. But for the areas of no runs, it's beautiful. Better than I'd anticipated.


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

aspirebyashley said:


> ... learning curve learned/ lol / very light spray rec./ Better than I'd anticipated.


Sounds like most things on anyone's go around. Thanks for the follow up. Always good to know how things turn out/feedback. Helps everyone learn including the vets from time to time. 

What tip size did you use and at what pressure? I assume you used a fine finish tip? 

I personally love Kem Aqua Plus. Once it dries it's stout stuff. I've left it outside for a month and it still looked good. Good scratch resistance and dries fast. All good stuff for cabinets.


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## aspirebyashley (Feb 9, 2017)

Sprayed with an Graco airless sprayer with a RACx 208 FFT, at a medium pressure setting.


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## Trox (Nov 3, 2016)

You might try SW Alkyd Urethane. It can topcoat over BIN and I have heard some really good reviews on the product. Also wet mill is 4-5 if I remember correctly. 

Just a thought. Thanks for the thread.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Trox said:


> You might try SW Alkyd Urethane. It can topcoat over BIN and I have heard some really good reviews on the product. Also wet mill is 4-5 if I remember correctly.
> 
> Just a thought. Thanks for the thread.


 Nobody wants to spray oil anymore. Your better off using BM Advance.


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