# How do I learn?



## trainbeat

I really want to learn how to hang paper, but it's so niche that the few guys I know of have zero interest in taking on an apprentice. Do any of you hangers know of any online resources that I can check out? Books? I'm wary of going to youtube when I see all the terrible finishing videos.


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## chrisn

Bill will be along soon


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## Underdog

How skilled are you, what can you do now?


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## CApainter

trainbeat said:


> I really want to learn how to hang paper, but it's so niche that the few guys I know of have zero interest in taking on an apprentice. Do any of you hangers know of any online resources that I can check out? Books? I'm wary of going to youtube when I see all the terrible finishing videos.


Learn how to tuck and cut, and everything else will fall into place so to speak.


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## straight_lines

I would love to learn the trade as well. Really wish I were closer to some of the pros here. 

I rarely get asked about paper, but I have a job right now on books for next month that I have no one to sub to. I had to tell them I didn't know of anyone I could recommend.


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## daArch

The only instructor I know who (I think) is still teaching is Brad Bender in VT.

Call your local trade school and see if they do.

The NGPP (now operating under a new name) has always been making noise about running some beginner courses, but I do not think they ever got their act together. PWG is still an active member and may have some info about that. 


At one point, John Cox of Commerce GA had a school - The American School of Paperhanging Arts, but it ceased way many years ago. They (he and wife Gail) then produced a series of instructional VCR tapes. I have no idea if they still sell them. Gail kinda dropped off the face of the earth a few years back. 

I remember that some folks were selling used tapes when we all had VCR's. Maybe ???? you can search the net for them 

The website for The American School of Paperhanging Arts is http://paperhanging.com/

maybe you can figure out what their status is now (if they HAVE a status). But if you shoot Gail an email, count yourself REAL lucky if you get a reply. 

Sorry, that's all I got. 

How about joining the union and learning ???


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## CApainter

You may not get a Masters degree in wallcovering, but this organization looks like it provides some training. http://www.wallcoverings.org/?page=TecTrac&hhSearchTerms=%22training%22


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## chrisn

CApainter said:


> You may not get a Masters degree in wallcovering, but this organization looks like it provides some training. http://www.wallcoverings.org/?page=TecTrac&hhSearchTerms="training"


That looks like a pretty good place to start


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## chrisn

daArch said:


> The only instructor I know who (I think) is still teaching is Brad Bender in VT.
> 
> Call your local trade school and see if they do.
> 
> The NGPP (now operating under a new name) has always been making noise about running some beginner courses, but I do not think they ever got their act together. PWG is still an active member and may have some info about that.
> 
> 
> At one point, John Cox of Commerce GA had a school - The American School of Paperhanging Arts, but it ceased way many years ago. They (he and wife Gail) then produced a series of instructional VCR tapes. I have no idea if they still sell them. Gail kinda dropped off the face of the earth a few years back.
> 
> I remember that some folks were selling used tapes when we all had VCR's. Maybe ???? you can search the net for them
> 
> The website for The American School of Paperhanging Arts is http://paperhanging.com/
> 
> maybe you can figure out what their status is now (if they HAVE a status). But if you shoot Gail an email, count yourself REAL lucky if you get a reply.
> 
> Sorry, that's all I got.
> 
> How about joining the union and learning ???




REALLY lucky, like I highly doubt it. I was paying her for my website and she would not even communicate with me:blink: I never head what happened to her, maybe Tim knows?


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## daArch

CApainter said:


> You may not get a Masters degree in wallcovering, but this organization looks like it provides some training. http://www.wallcoverings.org/?page=TecTrac&hhSearchTerms=%22training%22


John,

From the looks of it, that WA program doesn't appear to be teaching rudimentary skills. Many of the faces I recognize, but NONE are the ones I would think of as having a good grasp on teaching rudimentary skills. 

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm just going by what and who I see. 

Unfortunately this industry is severely lacking in having an organized program to teach the basics.


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## daArch

chrisn said:


> REALLY lucky, like I highly doubt it. I was paying her for my website and she would not even communicate with me:blink: I never head what happened to her, maybe Tim knows?



Gee, that's the first time I heard THAT :no: :no: :no: :no: :no:


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## trainbeat

Underdog said:


> How skilled are you, what can you do now?


Generally, or in regards to paperhanging? As far as paperhanging, zilch. Squat.


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## JourneymanBrian

most of the time people use non-woven wallcoverings now anyway, and they are not hard to hang. Why dont you buy a few cheap rolls of one of those, and experiment?

With the non wovens you just paste the wall and apply your lenths one by one. The only thing that remains somewhat tricky is calculating how many lengths/rolls you will need.


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## JourneymanBrian

(non woven in comparison to paper)


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## CApainter

daArch said:


> John,
> 
> From the looks of it, that WA program doesn't appear to be teaching rudimentary skills. Many of the faces I recognize, but NONE are the ones I would think of as having a good grasp on teaching rudimentary skills.
> 
> Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm just going by what and who I see.
> 
> Unfortunately this industry is severely lacking in having an organized program to teach the basics.


I had to search for something when you mentioned looking into the union for training. The WA seemed most current in terms of offering any training, not only to those who want to hang, but also to manufactures. I found one in NJ called American Wallcovering, but it looks like they no longer provide training. Their site says it's only for historical purpose.

I learned Wallcovering by working hands on with a former employer. He had really good skills but he was primarily a painter rather than a hanger. He did sub out work to another guy who was an excellent hanger. I picked up a few tricks from him also.

One way to practice could be to start in closets, as one site suggested, or offer to hang a bathroom or kitchen as charity. 

I think it would have been cool to turn some of these military installation they tore down near me, into workshops for things just like this.


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## Underdog

trainbeat said:


> Generally, or in regards to paperhanging? As far as paperhanging, zilch. Squat.


 To me, the most important part of the job is preparation. You have good walls and you're 80% there.
Most painters can float and get walls smooth.

Paperhangers disagree on their favorite sizes and sealers, but having smooth coated walls so the adhesive doesn't absorb into the wall immediately is the most important thing.

Mostly it depends on the material. I could have you hanging the first day over the phone with the right kind of material.

The problem with the trade now is all the exotic, persnickety wallpapers that are flooding the high end market.

Most of us learned on canvas back wallpaper in the seventies, with wheat paste the adhesive of choice. Plaid was the style so we learned how to hang straight.


Map out the room so the seams don't fall close to doors or corners.
Use the recommended adhesive.
Hang a few strips before cutting (On long walls) to make sure the ceiling line is straight.
Match it at eye level and smooth from the middle outward to prevent bunching.
Be careful not to cut into the wood with your preliminary cuts.
Only lap the corner 1/16th of an inch. Come out of the corner with a fresh strip if you can.
Going around windows, you're on your own.
Smoke outside... Presto you're a paperhanger.

My dad was a house painter until somebody asked him if he knew how to hang wallpaper. He said, "...Yeeah... sure,.. I can.. do .. . that?"

(Disclaimer: don't try this with material that you aren't willing to buy back from your customer without crying, or blaming me)


:cowboy:


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## Ohio Painter

A book to start with is Encyclopedia of Wallpapering by David M Groff. Should be able to find it easy enough. 
A place to practice is in a empty house about to be remodeled or renovated. Ask around of anyone who does this type of work who can give you permission to paper the walls for practice. If you could get a few days in there before the guys come in to do demo.

Buy some rolls on clearance, and have at it. 

As already said it is all about the prep and primer / sizing used. Pasting is straight forward. Hanging to match is straight forward. Learning to hang around openings is where it can start to get complicated quick. 

Once you get comfortable with the prep, pasting, and hanging then only take on simple jobs with vinyl papers you are comfortable with. Go from there. It will take time. 
Avoid hanging cheap paper.
Good luck.


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## JourneymanBrian

@Underdog: canvas-backed wallpaper, that sounds like fun :O


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## daArch

I think your best bet is to talk to an established hanger and work for FREE as his/her "sponge bitch" for a while. Watching carefully and picking his/her brain. After a time, he/she may allow you to do some basic stuff, like pasting or washing what was hung. 

I got started by having a professional hang paper in a house I was painting. I watched carefully and was given the sponge to clean up after him. My first "paying job" was my parents' hall and stairs. Simple pattern, prepasted garbage. It took prolly three or four times what it would today, but because I took my time, I did learn. Being self taught doesn't mean you teach yourself, being self taught means you pick a lot of brains. 

I do not know Groff's _Encyclopedia of Wallpapering_. I do own his _The Complete Guide to Wallpapering_ . It's alright if you are a DIY'er. There are some very helpful things in it, there are things that I do differently, and there are things that I consider terribly wrong. Plus the book is woefully outdated. Sure, use it as a starting point, but do not take it as THE Wallpapering Bible.

Where do you live? Who knows, someone here may know someone with the patience, generosity, and foresight to share knowledge to allow the craft to survive.


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## SemiproJohn

daArch said:


> I think your best bet is to talk to an established hanger and work for FREE as his/her "*sponge bitch*" for a while. Watching carefully and picking his/her brain. After a time, he/she may allow you to do some basic stuff, like pasting or washing what was hung.
> 
> I got started by having a professional hang paper in a house I was painting. I watched carefully and was given the sponge to clean up after him. My first "paying job" was my parents' hall and stairs. Simple pattern, prepasted garbage. It took prolly three or four times what it would today, but because I took my time, I did learn. Being self taught doesn't mean you teach yourself, being self taught means you pick a lot of brains.
> 
> I do not know Groff's _Encyclopedia of Wallpapering_. I do own his _The Complete Guide to Wallpapering_ . It's alright if you are a DIY'er. There are some very helpful things in it, there are things that I do differently, and there are things that I consider terribly wrong. Plus the book is woefully outdated. Sure, use it as a starting point, but do not take it as THE Wallpapering Bible.
> 
> Where do you live? Who knows, someone here may know someone with the patience, generosity, and foresight to share knowledge to allow the craft to survive.





:laughing::laughing:


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## JourneymanBrian

what do you do with the sponge?


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## chrisn

JourneymanBrian said:


> what do you do with the sponge?


In the old day they were used to wipe down the paper. These days a micro fiber towel is used.


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## JourneymanBrian

for paste stains?


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## daArch

JourneymanBrian said:


> for paste stains?


hopefully any and all paste is cleaned off BEFORE staining. 

I know, I know I'm not SUCH a perfectionist that ALL installs are hung CLEAN with no excess paste on any trim or surface of the paper (I don't hang only textiles, DeGornays, and Zubers), so yes, I wash down the surface and trim with a damp cloth or sponge before the paste dries and stains or pulls the inks off.


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## JourneymanBrian

By stain i meant paste residue. Sure, with paper you often cant remove paste spots. 

So what is this "sponging"??

Do you mean using a sponge to apply the paste somehow?


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## JourneymanBrian

I remember at my painting school one group of examinees had to hang black paper wallpaper, every bit of paste that leaked onto the surface left a nice yellow stain, regardless of how quick they may have tried to wipe them away


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## daArch

JourneymanBrian said:


> By stain i meant paste residue. Sure, with paper you often cant remove paste spots.
> 
> So what is this "sponging"??
> 
> Do you mean using a sponge to apply the paste somehow?


"sponging", to take a wetted sponge and wipe the surface clean. How do you remove paste from where it shouldn't be after hanging wallpaper?

as Chrisn says, most of us now use a Micro Fiber Towel - or better known as a *miftie* to some.


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## JourneymanBrian

You cant always remove the paste spots, especially on dark patterns made of paper. You have to be careful to smooth them so that the paste comes out of the side that is yet to be hung.


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## daArch

JourneymanBrian said:


> You cant always remove the paste spots, especially on dark patterns made of paper. You have to be careful to smooth them so that the paste comes out of the side that is yet to be hung.


It sounds like you are talking about lumps of paste between wall and paper, while I am talking about paste that is on the surface of the paper.

Are you using a ready to use paste in a "tub" or a powder paste you mix with water?


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## chrisn

daArch said:


> "sponging", to take a wetted sponge and wipe the surface clean. How do you remove paste from where it shouldn't be after hanging wallpaper?
> 
> as Chrisn says, most of us now use a Micro Fiber Towel - or better known as a *miftie* to some.[/QUOTE]
> 
> only to y'all yankees


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## daArch

chrisn said:


> only to y'all yankees



I know Chris, it's tough being from Maryland which never seceded yet couldn't abolish slavery state wide and declared neutrality, sorta caught right in the middle. What I call a perineum state

'tain't Union, 'tain't Confederate


:jester: :whistling2: :thumbup:


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## JourneymanBrian

i use powder/granulate. No, I don't mean lumps of paste, I mean small amounts of paste that can come out of the seams when smoothing.


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## chrisn

daArch said:


> I know Chris, it's tough being from Maryland which never seceded yet couldn't abolish slavery state wide and declared neutrality, sorta caught right in the middle. What I call a perineum state
> 
> 'tain't Union, 'tain't Confederate
> 
> 
> :jester: :whistling2: :thumbup:


I like to think unique, although, not knowing history all that well and to lazy to look it up, we probably are not alone.


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## daArch

JourneymanBrian said:


> i use powder/granulate. No, I don't mean lumps of paste, I mean small amounts of paste that can come out of the seams when smoothing.



At which point, one needs a method of cleaning off that paste. Some use a sponge, some a bar rag, and others a _*Miftie*_


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## daArch

chrisn said:


> I like to think unique, although, not knowing history all that well and to lazy to look it up, we probably are not alone.


Too bad, H-town was very strategic during the Civil War as it was always a transportation hub.


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## JourneymanBrian

Right, gotcha. Just seems strange that one would have so much paste on the surface that youd need an extra man to get it done...

If you dont want the risk of permanent yellow stains, its best just not let any paste get on the surface of your paper. Its a crap shoot if you can get them off again.


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## chrisn

daArch said:


> Too bad, H-town was very strategic during the Civil War as it was always a transportation hub.


I know local history, just did not feel like looking up what other states might have been the same as MD, in the declaring of neutrality.


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## wcaz

*Wallcovering*

I got 35 yrs in wallcovering. Extremely high end stuff out here in Phoenix.Any questions? ask away.


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## daArch

wcaz said:


> I got 35 yrs in wallcovering. Extremely high end stuff out here in Phoenix.Any questions? ask away.



Yah, which end is up ?


(sorry, low hanging fruit) :lol:


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## Underdog

daArch said:


> Yah, which end is up ?
> 
> 
> (sorry, low hanging fruit) :lol:


 Reminded me of a couple years ago, almost to the day:
http://www.painttalk.com/f8/way-up-24345/

I've had people think they roll them up the same top and bottom every roll.



.


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## daArch

Underdog said:


> Reminded me of a couple years ago, almost to the day:
> http://www.painttalk.com/f8/way-up-24345/
> 
> I've had people think they roll them up the same top and bottom every roll.
> 
> 
> 
> .



spooky!


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## Anchors Aweigh Paint

You can do what I did and join the Union as an apprentice. Not quite sure how old you are or how good your joints are, but if you have zero experience, you're most likely not going to make money doing it for a very long time.


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## CApainter

Anchors Aweigh Paint said:


> You can do what I did and join the Union as an apprentice. Not quite sure how old you are or how good your joints are, but if you have zero experience, you're most likely not going to make money doing it for a very long time.



I don't think DaArch ever joined a union, and he's one of the country's best wall covering people. 

In the early 80's, I actually learned wall covering from an ex Union painter and another guy that did it for a living. I got good enough to do installs for my employer's customers. But by the time I received my Journey level classification from the State of California, I was no longer installing wall covering. Apparently, it was no longer in vogue.


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## Anchors Aweigh Paint

CApainter said:


> I don't think DaArch ever joined a union, and he's one of the country's best wall covering people.
> 
> In the early 80's, I actually learned wall covering from an ex Union painter and another guy that did it for a living. I got good enough to do installs for my employer's customers. But by the time I received my Journey level classification from the State of California, I was no longer installing wall covering. Apparently, it was no longer in vogue.


Didn't say you had to to be good, but it helps.


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## daArch

CApainter said:


> I don't think DaArch ever joined a union, and he's one of the country's best wall covering people.
> 
> In the early 80's, I actually learned wall covering from an ex Union painter and another guy that did it for a living. I got good enough to do installs for my employer's customers. But by the time I received my Journey level classification from the State of California, I was no longer installing wall covering. Apparently, it was no longer in vogue.


Why thank you John. Although, just as a reality check, on a forum like this, one can appear to be at the top of the pile but in reality be a hack and a fraud (like both PWG and myself  :whistling2: :blink. But all false modesty aside, I did strive to be in the upper echelon and some of my jobs turned out OK. 

And you are correct, never joined a union, but my union paperhanging friends certainly know their schit. It's a good method of learning.

If you can pick it up again, wallpapering IS back, especially in the Bay Area. I know a number of top notch installers making a good go of it. If you ever have the inclination, get in touch with the "club" members out there. Although I despise national management, the SF Chapter has some f-ing great people in it - some I consider very good friends who are also very generous with their knowledge and help.


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## salmangeri

Take a class or pay someone to show you the basics.....then start by wallpapering your own home.....that will take the danger out of having someone to pay you to learn on their time....a lot of it beyond the basics is getting the "feel" of how to work with the paper...also keep in mind different papers hang differently in terms of feel....some are more forgiving in pattern match and the way they lay down at the seams than others.....


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## EnglishDecorator

In the UK we learn all the trade 90% will do Painting & Decorating (papering) the other 10% will mainly do painting but would still take on lining jobs or Embossed papers. 

How come this isn't the same in America? 

In the UK you go college and learn everything from painting/papering/faux finishing (very basic) /glazing etc


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## PRC

That's a good question. There are union apprenticeships that require schooling which are more accessible in city's. Beyond that maybe a few privately run. But it's not "required". Any Joe can buy a brush and call himself a painter. 
There is a very wide range in the quality of contractors here. It would be nice to see more consistency in training.


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