# Behr Paint



## refpaul2465 (Oct 24, 2018)

Would like to get some feed back on Behr paint
I have been using SW and BM for over 20years and still do.
In the past 12-18 months starting using Marquee and am very impressed
I would go as far to say it equals any top line product from SW or Bm
and is priced much better
Any thoughts or observations?


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

consumer reports says behr is #1 so it must be true


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> consumer reports says behr is #1 so it must be true


They sure do. #1 box store paint. Must be good stuff if you can apply it while dressed in a tutu and dancing a ballet.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Walmart can sell stuff cheaper too, but who wants to shop at walmart.? I'm sure it's fine for most jobs..Try painting with it over a dark brown wall with an off white, then you will know the true quality. I do however prefer to support my local paint shop.


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## jr.sr. painting (Dec 6, 2013)

refpaul2465 said:


> Would like to get some feed back on Behr paint
> 
> I have been using SW and BM for over 20years and still do.
> 
> ...




As much as people hate to admit it. The coverage is second to none in my opinion. Anyone that balks at that has not tried it. However you have to deal with it being very thick and utter incompetence while at the store. If you can make it work for yourself go ahead and use it. We use it sometimes and have no issues when doing 2 coats.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mug (Dec 22, 2010)

Haven't used it in a while. It is super thick yet it runs. It brushes like peanut butter dragging on a wall and yet again, it runs. It smells like cat piss and made my nose swell. 
Some people love the product though so individual results vary.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

refpaul2465 said:


> Would like to get some feed back on Behr paint
> I have been using SW and BM for over 20years and still do.
> In the past 12-18 months starting using Marquee and am very impressed
> I would go as far to say it equals any top line product from SW or Bm
> ...


If you like it, and it’s working for you, why would you care what anyone else thinks?


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

RH said:


> If you like it, and it’s working for you, why would you care what anyone else thinks?


That's how I always felt about my wife.:biggrin:


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

refpaul2465 said:


> Would like to get some feed back on Behr paint
> I have been using SW and BM for over 20years and still do.
> In the past 12-18 months starting using Marquee and am very impressed
> I would go as far to say it equals any top line product from SW or Bm
> ...


Do you want the Behr naked truth? It's not very highly regarded on Paint talk!:vs_mad:


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

refpaul2465 said:


> Would like to get some feed back on Behr paint
> I have been using SW and BM for over 20years and still do.
> In the past 12-18 months starting using Marquee and am very impressed
> I would go as far to say it equals any top line product from SW or Bm
> ...



BEHR is may last choice in paints.


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

Behr reminds me of Bill Maher...I guess it's just the fact they both contain the letters e,h,and r. That has always been reason enough for me to stay as far away as possible from Behr.


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## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

I know we've beaten the Behr issue like a dead horse and I always share my story of a customer INSISTING I use Behr paint to paint 12 doors in her home. I kept insisting that I use the paint of my choosing. Anyway, long story short, it's the only time in 40 years that I got into a shouting match with someone. The paint was pure garbage! Three coats to cover, the finish was smooth like 40 grit sandpaper. Of course, it was MY FAULT. I was so mad I gave the lady her check back and said, "Don't ever call me again!" I vowed then and there to never, ever use Behr paint again.


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## Tprice2193 (Oct 3, 2017)

Must have been premium plus....its grainy in the can.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

mug said:


> Haven't used it in a while. It is super thick yet it runs. It brushes like peanut butter dragging on a wall and yet again, it runs. It smells like cat piss and made my nose swell.
> Some people love the product though so individual results vary.


Absolutely! Couldn't have said it better myself. So if you love wasting time ($$$$$) making it work then have at it.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Buck fehr!


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

Gymschu said:


> I know we've beaten the Behr issue like a dead horse and I always share my story of a customer INSISTING I use Behr paint to paint 12 doors in her home. I kept insisting that I use the paint of my choosing. Anyway, long story short, it's the only time in 40 years that I got into a shouting match with someone. The paint was pure garbage! Three coats to cover, the finish was smooth like 40 grit sandpaper. Of course, it was MY FAULT. I was so mad I gave the lady her check back and said, "Don't ever call me again!" I vowed then and there to never, ever use Behr paint again.


Wow. Using garbage like behr on a wall is one thing, but putting on doors and trim??

In all fairness though, the Behr Alkyd (waterborne) is a poor mans advance.


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## refpaul2465 (Oct 24, 2018)

interesting posts on the thread 
I tested Marquee up against Duration and Emerald just over a year ago.
It was going over dark taupe walls using white. Marquee covered in 2 coats, the Sw products did not and would have required a third coat.
I have mentioned this to at least 2 SW reps and talked to store managers, they
have no idea how to reply, after I inform them that the marquee paint is $ 10 to $ 12 a gallon less than their product.
This is not to bash either BM or SW , but merely point out that there are similar high end products available at reasonable pricing
If Behr can produce these type of products at well under $ 40 a gallon
then so can both BM and SW
The small contractor which most of us on Paint Talk are , are being taken advantage of by these big paint manufacturers
Anyone agree or disagree?


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

refpaul2465 said:


> interesting posts on the thread
> I tested Marquee up against Duration and Emerald just over a year ago.
> It was going over dark taupe walls using white. Marquee covered in 2 coats, the Sw products did not and would have required a third coat.
> I have mentioned this to at least 2 SW reps and talked to store managers, they
> ...


Lol try doing the same test with a 4mil draw down bar. Try again in a few months with a different batch.

Pretty soon you'll see why box store paints are "cheap" and why people constantly have different experiences with the product.

SW and PPG dwarf Behr in volume. BM manufacturers their own resins and pigments. if any of them _wanted_ to clone Marquee they could do so easily.

Hint: Contact the raw material manufacturers and see who only buys the highest grades from single sources. Sure as heck ain't Behr.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

refpaul2465 said:


> interesting posts on the thread
> I tested Marquee up against Duration and Emerald just over a year ago.
> It was going over dark taupe walls using white. Marquee covered in 2 coats, the Sw products did not and would have required a third coat.
> I have mentioned this to at least 2 SW reps and talked to store managers, they
> ...


It takes more than adding some high hiding filler garbage in a paint to make it good. 

Im not denying Marquees coverage, but thats only one of several factors that make a good paint, and frankly, Behr fails at every other one. It stinks, it has a high tendency to run, it rolls really 'snotty,' It doesnt flow good, it doesnt have good adhesion, and its not durable. Not to mention you have to deal with the idiots at home depot to buy the stuff. Its NOT a high end product, no matter what they claim. I'd sooner use Ultra Spec than marquee, and its half the price. 

I hate Sherwin, but they do sell me duration cheaper than I can buy Marquee for...

Another home depot paint that has really good coverage is Glidden Diamond. I've only used it on one job, but I brushed trim with it, and it covered surprisingly well. Check that out sometime. Also, try out PPG timeless. I havent tried it, but its got to be better than Behr, and I believe its cheaper than Marquee.


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

1. Integrity/knowledge of outlet selling the paint
2. Durability
3. Appearance of final finish (2&3 are real close)
4. Ease of application
5. Coverage
6. Price

These, in order of importance, are how I rate paint. Coverage is far from the top on my list.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

This is not a nod to Behr, because I do not like it. But the last time I used Regal Select in a white I had to roll three coats to cover a color that was not dark at all. It seems that a paint that now costs around $56 a gallon should cover in 2 coats.

Sent from my SM-A600U using Tapatalk


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Woodco said:


> refpaul2465 said:
> 
> 
> > interesting posts on the thread
> ...


Ditto!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Lightningboy65 said:


> 1. Integrity/knowledge of outlet selling the paint
> 2. Durability
> 3. Appearance of final finish (2&3 are real close)
> 4. Ease of application
> ...


Bull****. Convenience is number one and you all know it too.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Pete Martin the Painter said:


> This is not a nod to Behr, because I do not like it. But the last time I used Regal Select in a white I had to roll three coats to cover a color that was not dark at all. It seems that a paint that now costs around $56 a gallon should cover in 2 coats.
> 
> Sent from my SM-A600U using Tapatalk


Did you put it on at the recommended mil thickness? 90% of the time a paint doesn't cover is because it wasn't put on at the required thickness to hide. Marquee for example has to be applied at 8 mils wet to get one coat coverage. Which by the way is more than the thickness of two coats of regal select. Because behrs is the gooderest paint!


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

Theoriginalpacman said:


> Bull****. Convenience is number one and you all know it too.


Well' I live within 5 miles of 2 paint stores...the nearest big box is 25 miles. So the big box stores are not convenient!


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Lightningboy65 said:


> 1. Integrity/knowledge of outlet selling the paint
> 2. Durability
> 3. Appearance of final finish (2&3 are real close)
> 4. Ease of application
> ...


I would have to add availability to the list. 

I used to get a lot of my paint from a regional outfit but had issues with them being out of one of their main product lines when I needed it (not talking huge amounts - just a few gallons). Eventually it got bad enough for me to just give up. Ever since then, I’ve been using SW and they have never pulled that stunt on me - not once.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

RH said:


> Lightningboy65 said:
> 
> 
> > 1. Integrity/knowledge of outlet selling the paint
> ...


Availability is part of convenience. Knowing they will have what you need when you need it.


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## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

RH said:


> I would have to add availability to the list.
> 
> I used to get a lot of my paint from a regional outfit but had issues with them being out of one of their main product lines when I needed it (not talking huge amounts - just a few gallons). Eventually it got bad enough for me to just give up. Ever since then, I’ve been using SW and they have never pulled that stunt on me - not once.


@RH, I used to buy ALL of my paint at my local (locally owned) hardware store. After a while, stock of certain paints was low and they were slow at re-ordering even though their supplier was less than 40 miles away. I would come in for 3 or 4 gallons of their best selling paint and they wouldn't have it in stock. Frustrating. One day when that happened, I actually had to drive to the supplier 40 miles away to get paint to finish a job. I had no choice as I had started the job with their paint and needed to finish with their paint. Needless to say, I quit relying on them.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Theoriginalpacman said:


> Availability is part of convenience. Knowing they will have what you need when you need it.


Not so sure. IMO, the availability of a main product line should be a given with any paint supplier. Whereas the idea of “convenience” can vary considerably. To me it means being fairly close by and having everything in one place that I need to do a job. 

I had been put in a bind more than once because of this place running out of stock. Usually they would inform me that their stock was low when I’d come in the first time to get some, ask if I anticipated needing more, and assure me that they could quickly get some more in if required. 

The last straw was when I bought a few gallons for a time sensitive job, then returned two days later to get two more and was told they were out, that they couldn’t get any from a sister store one town away, and that they had no idea when they would get more in. To me, that’s a reliability issue.


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

I agree with RH. Convenience to me would would be proximity, and wouldn't rate at the top of my list. I'd rather drive 30 minutes for better paint than buy crappy paint right next door. I'd lump availability in with the integrity of the vendor.


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## Krittterkare (Jul 12, 2013)

I have done 4 exteriors with Behr and it is a different animal then other paints, the smell makes me feel ill it does sag when you try to lay it on thick enough to cover like come back minutes later and it sagged after you felt it was alright. 

Someone mentioned Glidden, I painted an accent wall for my girlfriend with a quart of primer then a quart of Glidden and it covered well then she wanted it a bit darker and I got a quart of BM Ben and had to do to coats with the much more expensive Ben.
Sometimes I wonder.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

RH said:


> Not so sure. IMO, the availability of a main product line should be a given with any paint supplier. Whereas the idea of “convenience” can vary considerably. To me it means being fairly close by and having everything in one place that I need to do a job.
> 
> I had been put in a bind more than once because of this place running out of stock. Usually they would inform me that their stock was low when I’d come in the first time to get some, ask if I anticipated needing more, and assure me that they could quickly get some more in if required.
> 
> The last straw was when I bought a few gallons for a time sensitive job, then returned two days later to get two more and was told they were out, that they couldn’t get any from a sister store one town away, and that they had no idea when they would get more in. To me, that’s a reliability issue.



Maybe if painters paid in cash and didn't buy 1000's on credit and take 30-90 days to pay... much easier when a giant corporation is backing your credit instead of my credit with BM.


TBH for a time sensitive job you should know ahead of time the materials you need, I put that at least half on you for not making sure your supplier didn't set aside materials for your job.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Maybe if painters paid in cash and didn't buy 1000's on credit and take 30-90 days to pay... much easier when a giant corporation is backing your credit instead of my credit with BM.


Well, although regional, the company in question has over fifty stores and has been around since the 1890’s. Not anywhere near as big as SW but still...


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

RH said:


> Well, although regional, the company in question has over fifty stores and has been around since the 1890’s. Not anywhere near as big as SW but still...



So I've driven 6-8 hours many times do get materials for guys next day for time critical jobs. Wouldn't have had to do that if the painter would communicate how much material might be needed on a job. Not saying this is the same in your case but sucks your supplier doesn't care enough to keep your business...



Anecdotal but painters are notoriously bad with communication.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> So I've driven 6-8 hours many times do get materials for guys next day for time critical jobs. Wouldn't have had to do that if the painter would communicate how much material might be needed on a job. Not saying this is the same in your case but sucks your supplier doesn't care enough to keep your business...
> 
> 
> 
> Anecdotal but painters are notoriously bad with communication.


 
I agree. Too many times I've contacted my independent supplier in desperation to ship over paint for a job I didn't plan well enough in advance. It definitely strained our relationship. However, other stores like SW and Kelly Moore always seem to have what I need, in stock, despite a last minute order. I think that type of convenience has a lot of value even though I prefer to use a premium product instead.


The homeowners and building owners can also cause logistical deficiencies by being indecisive and difficult with access and scheduling. Which often has the painter scrambling when things finally get figured out.


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

I always gave independent dealers a little more slack as far as expecting the store to have large quantities of product in stock. I imagine their carrying cost is greater than a company owned store. It won"t cost the company store anymore to warehouse a large quantity in store as opposed to a company owned warehouse. The independent guy has to buy the product and tie up capital until it is sold. My BM dealer is pretty good about keeping large stock on hand, but occasionally will have a run on product and be out of stock. I would always try to give them a heads up, and pre-order large orders. On the occasions they would be out of product, I generally put the onus on myself for not planning ahead.


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## celicaxx (May 29, 2015)

Woodco said:


> Wow. Using garbage like behr on a wall is one thing, but putting on doors and trim??
> 
> In all fairness though, the Behr Alkyd (waterborne) is a poor mans advance.


Behr alkyd is severely underrated. I don't really like any other Behr products, but the alkyd is pretty great, really right near Advance. However, it actually smells worse than Advance and takes even longer to dry. 

Anyway, my guilty pleasure cheap box store paint is Valspar 2000. It is the best paint for the $20 price point you can get in any brand.


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## celicaxx (May 29, 2015)

Pete Martin the Painter said:


> This is not a nod to Behr, because I do not like it. But the last time I used Regal Select in a white I had to roll three coats to cover a color that was not dark at all. It seems that a paint that now costs around $56 a gallon should cover in 2 coats.
> 
> Sent from my SM-A600U using Tapatalk


My theory, though maybe a BM dealer can refute me, is that Benjamin Moore doesn't have a tinted resin system. I think Sherwin and PPG might have patent rights to tinted resin systems that allow them to get a lot better coverage with a lot less titanium (though Sherwin did/probably still does gray out some paints compared to BM for more coverage, so you lose accuracy to the swatch.) I remember lurking on here reading a paint chemist saying to watch out for tinted resin paints in the future that will be way cheaper and provide really good coverage. 

This is my theory anyway, as I've had coverage issues with BM paints in whites and off whites, but the darker colors have been fantastic generally. This to me seems like the most logical explanation. I also think Gennex might have issues specifically in deeper yellows. If BM doesn't have a tinted resin system and the other manufacturers do and they're locked out because of patent rights, I don't know how they'll survive.


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## kmp (Jan 30, 2011)

I have lived in small towns for a long time now and even though S/W and Home Depot are the only paint stores in my ares I always give them as much notice as possible when I need a larger quantity of stuff. Just the way it is here in Hooterville.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

A larger quantity of any product definitely needs a heads up from the painter - preferably a week or so in order for some to be shipped in if needed. In my situation, I had picked up two gallons on Saturday and needed two more a few days later. Shipping day was Wednesday and I was fine with getting it then but I was told none was ordered or would be. Also, they didn’t have some at any of their sister stores which the rep covers. Pretty odd for one of their three main product lines and in an eggshell sheen, one of the most popular around here. 

Anyway, I still get all of my sundries and stains from them, just not any paints or primers.


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

celicaxx said:


> Anyway, my guilty pleasure cheap box store paint is Valspar 2000. It is the best paint for the $20 price point you can get in any brand.


I agree. I only use box store stuff in a pinch, and always chose Lowe's over Home Despot*. And always get Valspar stuff -from the cheaper stuff to the most expensive Valspar, none of it has really disappointed me.


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## dmo999 (Jun 11, 2016)

its good paint. it really is. maybe a little thick for what i like to work with so i hit it with some water and stir it up really good. works excellent. I have used other paints as well. and the coverage is incredible. Their trim paint sticks like nails. I don't buy behr paint but sometimes I have customers that insist. I've never had a problem.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

God these Behr threads crack me up! Some of the things you people say....hilarious! That one about how it adheres? Priceless! Comedy gold right there!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

And the one about SW paint hiding better than bm? Pure genius!


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

celicaxx said:


> ...If BM doesn't have a tinted resin system and the other manufacturers do and they're locked out because of patent rights, I don't know how they'll survive...



In reality exactly the opposite is true. SW, Behr and PPG (and everyone else) are still tinting on decades old technology and are locked out of 'tinted resin' (Gennex) technology due to BM patents.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> celicaxx said:
> 
> 
> > ...If BM doesn't have a tinted resin system and the other manufacturers do and they're locked out because of patent rights, I don't know how they'll survive...
> ...


It's amazing the bull**** people will believe when it comes out of their SW or ppg reps mouth. SW and ppg only use "tinted resin" (which is in fact just marketing bull**** itself) in their automotive and chemical coatings product lines. Ben Moore was the first company to cross this technology over to architectural coating, followed shortly by several European manufacturers, which is where California licensed their version from. SW and ppg do NOT use "tinted resins" in their architectural coatings. Unless of course you consider greying the hell out of their cheap a55 white pigments so they'll hide "tinted resin" technology.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Fyi, gennex and trillion colorants are what you are referring to as "tinted resins". Not the low glycol colorants every other paint company uses.


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## Vinyl 54X (Mar 12, 2019)

Just put it on the wall! And hope the check clears. Would Behr be your first choice if the HO had no preference?


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Behr hiding test*



jr.sr. painting said:


> As much as people hate to admit it. The coverage is second to none in my opinion. Anyone that balks at that has not tried it. However you have to deal with it being very thick and utter incompetence while at the store. If you can make it work for yourself go ahead and use it. We use it sometimes and have no issues when doing 2 coats.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


As many here know, I do painting for a remodeler at 2 hi rises in Chicago. He normally uses Behr Premium Plus if the clients let him choose. Otherwise, he gets whatever the client specifies. Obviously, the client decides the colors.

Over the last 4.5 years we have used Behr Premium Plus, Behr PPU, BM Regal Select, BM Advance, BM Ben, BM Ultra-Spec and about 6 different types of ceiling paint.

I don't care at all for BM Ultra-Spec except on ceilings. The Ultra-Spec on walls seemed to get marks on them just by looking at them! I had to repaint 2 walls 3 times in the unit we used Ultra Spec because of marks on the walls.

When I got back into painting around 2013 I started with Behr as I had been using that a number of years prior. Behr seems to work for me, but then I do not do as much painting as most of you here. I do look forward to doing tough-up jobs for clients who are getting ready to sell their homes and have leftover paint. I remember fixing a pocket door, then topcoating it with SW Proclassic that was still usable. I really liked how it both brushed out and rolled. At the same house I did repairs in the laundry room and used the leftover Dutchboy semi-gloss and that was nice to use as well.

Behr is normally my go to paint. I don't seem to have the problems using it that I read here. I do agree that it could brush out a little better as Regal Select does, but I seem to make do with it. I do like the Behr PPU eggshell quite a bit. On one job I calculated the sq ft at 700. I rolled 2 coats just rolling as I normally do (a bit thin so as to not produce lots of orange peel texture) to visibly cover what I am painting over. I used 1 cup shy of 2 gallons on that 700 sq ft.

On the job I just finished at the hi rises I work at, we used Behr Premium Plus for flat, eggshell and semi-gloss (on the ceiling we used PPG Premium Ceiling Paint (Thank you Chrisn for recommending it all the time).

I had 3 flat panel doors (one of them being a pocket door) to roll out on both sides, the inside of the front entrance door and the fronts and sides of 2 large sliding closet doors, all to be painted in place (I normally lean the new doors up against the windows while propped up on 2x4s, roll out 1 side, let dry, then flip them around and paint the other sides.) as they were very heavy. I normally use a Wooster 5/16" Micro Plush to roll out satin or semi-gloss on flat doors. I picked up a 1/4" Arroworthy Microfiber from my local BM dealer after they told me that it was the go to cover for hi sheen flat surfaces. Both I and the GC could see the blue stripe visibly making its way onto the surface of one side of the pocket door. NG. I rolled out the 1st coat on the rest of the doors with the Wooster 5/16" and they looked much better. The next day I picked up a new Shurlock 9" roller from HD. I took the nearest roller cover to put onto the Shurlock to see how easy it was to pull off. The roller cover was a 1/4" Wooster that was packaged for HD. I bought it and rolled the 2nd coat on the doors using this cover. The finish looked as good or better than the 5/16" Micro Plush. I did not take photos as sometimes characteristics such as uniformity of sheen is hard to capture with a camera.

I did, however, take the opportunity to roll out some of the Behr PP semi-gloss in SW Dover White, using the 1/4" Wooster cover from HD, onto a piece of dark laminate that was being used in the kitchen. I scuff sanded the glossy laminate and wiped it down. I rolled the SG onto about 2/3 of the piece. After it dried I rolled the SG over 2/3 of the 1st coat, followed by a 3rd coat on the last 3rd of the painted surface. The coverage and hiding can be seen in the photos below. I make no claims as to anything else other than to say that I was very pleased with how the doors came out with 2 coats of Behr PP Semi-gloss over white primer. How the paint will hold up I cannot say. Obviously this paint is not California (nee Muralo) Ultra, my favorite trim paint! For what it's worth:

futtyos

P.S. I have too much time on my hands I guess.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

futtyos said:


> jr.sr. painting said:
> 
> 
> > As much as people hate to admit it. The coverage is second to none in my opinion. Anyone that balks at that has not tried it. However you have to deal with it being very thick and utter incompetence while at the store. If you can make it work for yourself go ahead and use it. We use it sometimes and have no issues when doing 2 coats.
> ...


Lucky.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Behr Alkyd Enamel*



Woodco said:


> Wow. Using garbage like behr on a wall is one thing, but putting on doors and trim??
> 
> In all fairness though, the Behr Alkyd (waterborne) is a poor mans advance.


I was at HD a couple of days ago and ran into a painting contractor who was asking for Behr's Alkyd Satin enamel. The clerk said they only had the semi-gloss version, but that other HDs might have the satin. I engaged him in conversation about the Alkyd. He said that he loves it for doors and trim. I asked how it compares to Advance. He told me that he uses Advance to spray cabinets with. He said that the Behr Alkyd flows out very smooth on both doors and trim and is half the price of Advance.

FWIW

futtyos


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

futtyos said:


> I was at HD a couple of days ago and ran into a painting contractor who was asking for Behr's Alkyd Satin enamel. The clerk said they only had the semi-gloss version, but that other HDs might have the satin. I engaged him in conversation about the Alkyd. He said that he loves it for doors and trim. I asked how it compares to Advance. He told me that he uses Advance to spray cabinets with. He said that the Behr Alkyd flows out very smooth on both doors and trim and is half the price of Advance.
> 
> FWIW
> 
> futtyos


Then why doesn't he use it on cabinet jobs if it's so wonderful?:surprise:


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

futtyos said:


> As many here know, I do painting for a remodeler at 2 hi rises in Chicago. He normally uses Behr Premium Plus if the clients let him choose. Otherwise, he gets whatever the client specifies. Obviously, the client decides the colors.
> 
> Over the last 4.5 years we have used Behr Premium Plus, Behr PPU, BM Regal Select, BM Advance, BM Ben, BM Ultra-Spec and about 6 different types of ceiling paint.
> 
> ...


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

futtyos said:


> Woodco said:
> 
> 
> > Wow. Using garbage like behr on a wall is one thing, but putting on doors and trim??
> ...


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## celicaxx (May 29, 2015)

Theoriginalpacman said:


> futtyos said:
> 
> 
> > I was at HD a couple of days ago and ran into a painting contractor who was asking for Behr's Alkyd Satin enamel. The clerk said they only had the semi-gloss version, but that other HDs might have the satin. I engaged him in conversation about the Alkyd. He said that he loves it for doors and trim. I asked how it compares to Advance. He told me that he uses Advance to spray cabinets with. He said that the Behr Alkyd flows out very smooth on both doors and trim and is half the price of Advance.
> ...


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Sk5000 acrylic/alkyd is the real poor man's advance. That's a great product under $28/gallon


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*What alkyd is good?*



Theoriginalpacman said:


> futtyos said:
> 
> 
> > I was at HD a couple of days ago and ran into a painting contractor who was asking for Behr's Alkyd Satin enamel. The clerk said they only had the semi-gloss version, but that other HDs might have the satin. I engaged him in conversation about the Alkyd. He said that he loves it for doors and trim. I asked how it compares to Advance. He told me that he uses Advance to spray cabinets with. He said that the Behr Alkyd flows out very smooth on both doors and trim and is half the price of Advance.
> ...


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## Painting Practice (Jul 21, 2013)

Since when does the contractor care about price of product, customer buys it. Tell the customer you don't use it and move on. If they bend, use your preference, if they don't consider it a bullet dodged.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

I used to sell a product that blew everything else into the weeds. Brushed it laid out like glass. Adhered better than anything on the market. Low odor. Dried in 2-4 hours with 90% of its full cure hardness and adhesion. You could turn over doors and do the second side in 4 hours with no damage to the painted side. Sprayed doors could be touched up with a brush and it would lay out nearly invisible. Oh wait.... That company helped put me out of business! Let them sell their ****ing paint!


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Painting Practice said:


> Since when does the contractor care about price of product, customer buys it. Tell the customer you don't use it and move on. If they bend, use your preference, if they don't consider it a bullet dodged.


Exactly. If, as the pro, the customer disregards my opinion, I take it as a sign that there are likely to be further issues later. Time to pull the line, “Sorry, I don’t think I will be a good fit for your project.”*, out of my pocket. 

*Translation: I strongly suspect you are going to be a pain in the ass to work with so I am moving on while I can.


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## burchptg (Jun 30, 2013)

Gymschu said:


> I know we've beaten the Behr issue like a dead horse and I always share my story of a customer INSISTING I use Behr paint to paint 12 doors in her home. I kept insisting that I use the paint of my choosing. Anyway, long story short, it's the only time in 40 years that I got into a shouting match with someone. The paint was pure garbage! Three coats to cover, the finish was smooth like 40 grit sandpaper. Of course, it was MY FAULT. I was so mad I gave the lady her check back and said, "Don't ever call me again!" I vowed then and there to never, ever use Behr paint again.



If you've used Behr, you've got a horror story to tell. Mine is that it began to fade just as soon as the sun hit it (exterior trim). The HO's handyman quit and left the paint, so I just used what was left. Got around the house in one day, but the paint applied in the afternoon was noticeably darker. As I walked around, I could already see that the south as west sides had begun to fade. Multiple additional coats did not help.


My approach since is to tell the owner that off-brands are not under guarantee. Re-work (like 3rd and 4th coats) and repairs will be charged full price.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

burchptg said:


> If you've used Behr, you've got a horror story to tell. Mine is that it began to fade just as soon as the sun hit it (exterior trim). The HO's handyman quit and left the paint, so I just used what was left. Got around the house in one day, but the paint applied in the afternoon was noticeably darker. As I walked around, I could already see that the south as west sides had begun to fade. Multiple additional coats did not help.
> 
> 
> My approach since is to tell the owner that off-brands are not under guarantee. Re-work (like 3rd and 4th coats) and repairs will be charged full price.



I saw some Behr PP ext blue turn 10 different shades of green across 2 sides of a house after only 2 years. Somehow I did some magic with some tiny slivers of paint I could pull off in a shaded area and color match something usable into mooreguard.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Ultraplate?*



Theoriginalpacman said:


> I used to sell a product that blew everything else into the weeds. Brushed it laid out like glass. Adhered better than anything on the market. Low odor. Dried in 2-4 hours with 90% of its full cure hardness and adhesion. You could turn over doors and do the second side in 4 hours with no damage to the painted side. Sprayed doors could be touched up with a brush and it would lay out nearly invisible. Oh wait.... That company helped put me out of business! Let them sell their ****ing paint!


Tpac, I am guessing that you are referring to California Paints' Ultraplate, the product I cannot find in the Chicago area and which I have not gotten any help (as of yet) from California in locating a dealer that carries this in my area.

I recall recently speaking with a paint store dealer about California and how their distribution department has problems.

futtyos


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

futtyos said:


> Tpac, I am guessing that you are referring to California Paints' Ultraplate, the product I cannot find in the Chicago area and which I have not gotten any help (as of yet) from California in locating a dealer that carries this in my area.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I love California paints...especially its stains. That said, I have heard that there are some real issues going on with the company. Long time employees fired...others quiting. It is made 30 mins down the road from me and I do not even have a rep. I hope that the new parent company, ICP, does not run it into the ground.

Sent from my SM-A600U using Tapatalk


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

Pete Martin the Painter said:


> I love California paints...especially its stains. That said, I have heard that there are some real issues going on with the company. Long time employees fired...others quiting. It is made 30 mins down the road from me and I do not even have a rep. I hope that the new parent company, ICP, does not run it into the ground.
> 
> Sent from my SM-A600U using Tapatalk







.


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## celicaxx (May 29, 2015)

I think for Behr as a compromise to customers if I ever get it again, I would use it on walls, and tell them I don't like it/feel comfortable using it on trim and ceilings. On walls I'd find a way to make it work (maybe 1/4" Microplush, water or Floetrol) but the leveling and brushability I've experienced with Behr Ultra is pretty bad. The Behr ceiling paints as well aren't a true flat, either, also bad. I figure that way they get their exact wall color they care about, and the majority of the paint they bought isn't useless. Of course if they got the WB alkyd Behr I'd be pleased to use that. 

I think the specific issue with Behr Ultra is it's very draggy and gluey. I remember Premium Plus being less so. So being draggy and gluey gives maybe good coverage in some circumstances, but I think it helps home owners apply it easier with a crappy dollar brush easier than something like say, Advance as they don't understand the concept of spreading out paint and don't have steady hands and maybe are even "picking" paint on stuff and not using strokes. Of course to them roller stipple, brush marks, etc, are probably irrelevant/not noticed, too. 

I've mentioned this in other threads, but I found a lot of similarities in BM Aura and Behr Ultra. I think Behr Ultra was trying to knock it off. Aura still can be spread out, and of course is a way better paint in every manner, but a lot of pros complain about it (I certainly do) but DIYers almost always love it and say it's the best paint ever and get good results.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Pete Martin the Painter said:


> futtyos said:
> 
> 
> > Tpac, I am guessing that you are referring to California Paints' Ultraplate, the product I cannot find in the Chicago area and which I have not gotten any help (as of yet) from California in locating a dealer that carries this in my area.
> ...


You forgot "colluding with ppg to take customers away from Cali dealers" .


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

futtyos said:


> Tpac, I am guessing that you are referring to California Paints' Ultraplate, the product I cannot find in the Chicago area and which I have not gotten any help (as of yet) from California in locating a dealer that carries this in my area.
> 
> I recall recently speaking with a paint store dealer about California and how their distribution department has problems.
> 
> futtyos


futty, both Diamond Paint in Des Plaines and Skokie Paint said they never heard of Ultraplate that I really wanted just Ultra. When I went into Skokie Paint, I again asked Steve the owner about Ultraplate he said there was no such product only Ultra. I pulled out a copy from California's website with the pic of the Ultraplate can. He says well how am I supposed to keep track of every little new name they come up with and that Ultra's the same thing maybe better!

Furthermore, he said he wasn't going to stock every new product that California came up with. You have to remember he's a BM dealer and thats the bread and butter.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Been down the same road*



Brushman4 said:


> futty, both Diamond Paint in Des Plaines and Skokie Paint said they never heard of Ultraplate that I really wanted just Ultra. When I went into Skokie Paint, I again asked Steve the owner about Ultraplate he said there was no such product only Ultra. I pulled out a copy from California's website with the pic of the Ultraplate can. He says well how am I supposed to keep track of every little new name they come up with and that Ultra's the same thing maybe better!
> 
> Furthermore, he said he wasn't going to stock every new product that California came up with. You have to remember he's a BM dealer and thats the bread and butter.


I just spoke with Mount Prospect Paints and they told me that while they don't stock Ultraplate (they carry California Ultra Ceramic for a good number of contractors) they can order it if given enough lead time.

futtyos


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

futtyos said:


> I just spoke with Mount Prospect Paints and they told me that while they don't stock Ultraplate (they carry California Ultra Ceramic for a good number of contractors) they can order it if given enough lead time.
> 
> futtyos


Is Ultra Ceramic the same as Ultraplate? That is the question.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

Brushman4 said:


> Is Ultra Ceramic the same as Ultraplate? That is the question.


No.

Sent from my SM-A600U using Tapatalk


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*2 different paints*



Brushman4 said:


> Is Ultra Ceramic the same as Ultraplate? That is the question.


Ultra Aquaborne Ceramic Interior:

https://www.californiapaints.com/pr...ype=Finishes&app-type=Interior&product-sheen=

Ultraplate Trim & Cabinet paint: 

https://www.californiapaints.com/pr...ype=Finishes&app-type=Interior&product-sheen=

I ran into that about a year ago when calling around to find Ultraplate. Sometimes even people who work in paint stores think they are sexual intellectuals.

futtyos


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Ultraplate?*



Pete Martin the Painter said:


> I love California paints...especially its stains. That said, I have heard that there are some real issues going on with the company. Long time employees fired...others quiting. It is made 30 mins down the road from me and I do not even have a rep. I hope that the new parent company, ICP, does not run it into the ground.
> 
> Sent from my SM-A600U using Tapatalk


Pete, have you used Ultraplate, and if so, what are your thoughts on it?

futtyos


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

I have, and I like it a lot. Fairly easy to work with, levels really nice, and sticks to anything. Dries really hard and is very durable. The only downside is that it not available in dark colors.



Sent from my SM-A600U using Tapatalk


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

futtyos said:


> Ultra Aquaborne Ceramic Interior:
> 
> https://www.californiapaints.com/pr...ype=Finishes&app-type=Interior&product-sheen=
> 
> ...


futty, what exactly are sexual intellectuals? **** stars?


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Answer to question*



Brushman4 said:


> futty, what exactly are sexual intellectuals? **** stars?


Why, "something" know-it-alls, of course. 

futtyos


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Ultraplate was around 10 years before ultra. It isn't nearly the same thing. Ultra is a ceramic product line that was formerly a muralo product and ultraplate was around way before Cali bought muralo. Those people telling you ultra is the same or better than ultraplate are most likely old disgruntled muralo dealers who don't want to sell it because if some kind of ego issue. Ultraplate is a much, much better cabinet, door, and trim paint as verified at the now closed hillbilly paint lab. Those dealers are assholes. By accident or on purpose I have no idea.


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

Theoriginalpacman said:


> Ultraplate was around 10 years before ultra. It isn't nearly the same thing. Ultra is a ceramic product line that was formerly a muralo product and ultraplate was around way before Cali bought muralo. Those people telling you ultra is the same or better than ultraplate are most likely old disgruntled muralo dealers who don't want to sell it because if some kind of ego issue. Ultraplate is a much, much better cabinet, door, and trim paint as verified at the now closed hillbilly paint lab. Those dealers are assholes. By accident or on purpose I have no idea.


Most of the stores around here that sell California are mainly BM dealers. Unless a PC who buys a lot of product from them comes in and asks for Ultraplate, the stores wouldn't know it from Ultra if it bit them in the @ss, the same could be said for most of the contractors!:biggrin:


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