# Airless sprayer paint consumption



## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

I borrowed a buddies airless to try out finally. Had seven interior molded MDF 3 panel doors to do. 

I sanded and shot them with a bunch of left over SW wall and wood with a 412 ff. Sanded again and shot breakthrough in them with a 410 ff. 

Shot them horizontal, as coming from my hvlp I wasn't sure what to expect with my first go. Used lags I had top and bottom and some built saw horses so I could spray one side and flip to keep the debris off as I was outside. 
Breakthrough tacks up quick in this unseasonably warm westher so I could spray, flip,spray, flip them relatively quickly. 


I used a lot more paint then brushing/rolling and more than my hvlp seems to use for the same area. I.know the airless has a much lower transfer efficiency. 

7 doors two coats per side (some needed a 3rd on one side to sand out junk) about 3 1/2 gallons. Seems excessive. 

I start stopped my laps just as I would with my capspray off surface. I only cleaned the sprayer once at the end so it's not like I wasted a bunch by changing colors.


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## philcav7 (Sep 12, 2013)

3.5 gallons on 7 doors? 

Factoring 35sf/door X 7 doors = 245SF area 

Two coats round up to 500SF, coming out to 140SF per gallon. Seems excessive to me.


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## PNW Painter (Sep 5, 2013)

It takes a little under a quart to just to prime and fill the line in my sprayer. If you cleaned the sprayer after spraying each coat you probably lost quite a bit of material in the cleaning process.




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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

sayn3ver said:


> I borrowed a buddies airless to try out finally. Had seven interior molded MDF 3 panel doors to do.
> 
> I sanded and shot them with a bunch of left over SW wall and wood with a 412 ff. Sanded again and shot breakthrough in them with a 410 ff.
> 
> ...


Here's what I just did.

I sprayed 8 man doors, 6 bi-folds, then brush and rolled a 2500sq ft house (all flat stock), and used about 3 gallons.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

That seems Wayyyyyyyy excessive. How much line did you have on it and at what pressure?


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## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

So that was excessive. :jester:

I'll check my wft next time. Certainly didn't seem excessively thick by looks. It definitely was a heavier coat than the thinned coat my capspray lays out but certainly didn't puddle or ruin the recessed panel corner detail. 

I only primed and cleaned the sprayer once for them , like I stated initially so I know it's not material waste from cleaning. 

Between coats I was reversing the tip and bleeding off pressure. There was some waste there but I can't see it being that much. 

Maybe I was getting on and off the trigger early and late respectfully.

50ft of 1/4" line @ around 1800psi. I started low and adjusted until the pressure was just above where it stopped fingering as my friend instructed. He wasn't there just dropped it off with some quick tips. 

The tips were new. I bought my own for the project. Titan ff tips.

If it holds true and airless indeed is around 40-60% transfer efficiency, than 50% of the estimated sqft per gallon (300ish right?) Puts me around the 500sqft mark which was the rough sqft I needed to cover. Definitely on the low end of the airless efficiency range maybe? Definitely operator error, yes I think.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

Chalk it up to an educational experience. Some folks buy books, we buy more paint. I'm pretty sure I should have a PhD in paint by now from the University of Phuckups.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

Saynever, so bleeding off pressure loses paint? That should not be true if you bleed the pressurized paint into your paint can instead of trash water bucket.

412 has a bit big of a orifice. 411 is biggest I've used for trim and doors but 410 is primo. First coat usually is better to go light. Even, wet but light. Second coat should not make up the difference, just do a reg coat instead of heavy.


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## dirtyjeep01 (Dec 19, 2015)

410 for sure. I most often use a 308 depends on slab. 
3 gallons aahhh little much but by the looks of it ..dark color . Did you spray top and bottom of the doors? Very important


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## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

Yea I was blowing into a trashcan. I dunno what I was thinking? The others know I've been trying to go from strictly brush and roll to spray. I spent a while screwing around with my hvlp before sucking it up and asking to borrow an airless to try. 


I don't have that waste with the cup gun and PPS system. It takes about 5 minutes to clean the gun and if coming back to the same material, I stick the little plug in the top and it'll stay good until next coat.... I havent tried it longer than overnight. 

It may not have been clear but a few of the doors needed a third coat on one side as well. I don't think it makes a huge difference in sqft but it helps the cause a little. 

Again, I primed with a 412 and sprayed breakthrough with a 410. It's not the end of the world. I just want to learn and move on.


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## Ric (Oct 26, 2011)

sayn3ver said:


> I borrowed a buddies airless to try out finally. Had seven interior molded MDF 3 panel doors to do.
> 
> I sanded and shot them with a bunch of left over SW wall and wood with a 412 ff. Sanded again and shot breakthrough in them with a 410 ff.
> 
> ...



Hey Say...

Not to beat a dying horse...but, Technogod & Philcav7 made some really good points. Breakthrough recommends an applied thickness of 4.0 mils (WFT) - At this spread rate, BT Gloss will yield a dry film (DFT) of approx 1.5 mils per coat, Satin yields approx 1.7 mils - per coat. As Phil stated, with 2 coats you covered 500 square feet for a spread rate of about 140 square feet per gallon - figuring 20% waste for airless app, that means 2.8 gallons were applied to 500 square feet (so a more realistic spread rate = 178 square feet per gallon) - When paint is applied at 178 square feet per gallon, the wet film = 9.0 mils, and the dft of Breakthrough gloss = 3.15 mils per coat, Breakthrough satin = 3.6 mils - With either sheen level, and with waste allowed, your applied rate and final dft was more than twice that recommended for Breakthrough...

...and speaking of waste, I buy Breakthrough through an independent dealer for $48.00 per gallon (and, yes, I am probably the only one in this room that isn't overly impressed with this product) - our local PPG wholesale store sells it @ $72.00 per gallon. Given an estimated 20% waste for 3.5 gallon sprayed = 70% of 1 gallon has been wasted on this project (minimum $33.60 worth of material wasted on a 7 door project) - (That, btw, was not a comment on you, or your application - A 15-20% waste is often figured for airless spray application).


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## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

No big deal. Beat that horse for me. 
I get what you guys are saying. And I will try to have my wft gauge with me when trying new things. 

Not that it matters but the PPG dealer ive been using has it $36/gallon for anyone off the street. Less of a sting in that department but I do understand I wasted some product.

I'll apply this lesson to my next airless sprayer job. 


And once again not for nothing, but I still had one door, despite the apparent heavy application, somewhat pin hole a bit in a section similar to when using my hvlp and I don't wet out the surface enough. Not solvent pops, but as if the applied wet film just didn't flow totally together.


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## AngieM (Apr 13, 2016)

I will say, the AAA will eventually pay for itself in paint saved. How many years? Not sure, but I found it uses less than half the amount of paint of an airless with a nicer finish achievable by a Rookie like me 😉


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

Just for reference. A 312 fine finish tip. Right around 1500 psi.

1 gallon of paint should get you around 5 to 6 doors.

Line loss also plays a role. When we spray doors or small things I like to use a 15ft long hose. Less paint loss in the line. Otherwise it's the standard 25ft.


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## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

Does the 15ft line cause an issue with pressure/pattetn consistency at the gun? Doesn't the longer line help even out the pressure high and lows?


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

sayn3ver said:


> Does the 15ft line cause an issue with pressure/pattetn consistency at the gun? Doesn't the longer line help even out the pressure high and lows?


Haven't seen a noticeable difference.

We switched to 15ft for certain applications like spraying doors or small things, so we don't have as much line loss (material in the line).

Start off and end off of the thing your spraying and it seems to work just fine, haven't seen it fluctuate or anything like that or pulse.


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## harmonpa (Dec 20, 2015)

Ya the hose length shouldn't matter significantly with pressure highs and lows. The idea of air assist airless has merit its closer to HVLP efficiency with a similar fine finish but would require equipment change outs or conversion of the Airless to Air Assist airless (which can be done). The fine finish tip is a in between solution that will let you have a bit better break up though you usually want to ensure your paint is filtered well with a fine finish tip as they will clog quicker than a standard airless tip and usually are not reversible.


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## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

The ff tips I use are reversible. They make the tips to fit the standard Titan and graco guards. They also make ff flat tips which are not reversible. :whistling2:

Angie, how do you like the graco g40? Lots of options if you already have a compressor and an airless. :whistling2:


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