# skim coat product



## MercierPainting (Apr 3, 2012)

Is there a significant difference in powder joint compound as opposed to pre-mixed? I've always just used the pre-mixed, but have a very large amount of wall space to patch, and was not satisfied with how little the 1st bucket covered. 

I saw online that a 41 lb box was similar in price to a bucket, but again, I've never used it and have no idea how much it makes. I tried the search with not much luck. Any help would be appreciated. 

Now back to taxes for me...


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

MercierPainting said:


> Is there a significant difference in powder joint compound as opposed to pre-mixed? I've always just used the pre-mixed, but have a very large amount of wall space to patch, and was not satisfied with how little the 1st bucket covered.
> 
> I saw online that a 41 lb box was similar in price to a bucket, but again, I've never used it and have no idea how much it makes. I tried the search with not much luck. Any help would be appreciated.
> 
> Now back to taxes for me...


I don't like the boxes, because if you fold the plastic back over, it puts little pieces of dried crap onto your mud.

Taxes? What's the hurry...you still have a day!:thumbsup:


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## Wood511 (Dec 13, 2010)

There's no real difference in coverage/lbs/amount of product etc...

I assume you know all about the setting vs. drying type muds?

I thin the drying type muds a good bit and that gets me a lot more distance from a bucket of the stuff...and reduces sanding.


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## MercierPainting (Apr 3, 2012)

Wood511 said:


> I assume you know all about the setting vs. drying type muds?
> 
> I thin the drying type muds a good bit and that gets me a lot more distance from a bucket of the stuff...and reduces sanding.



Ummmm, yes, yes I do. But maybe you could clarify in case anyone else lurking around was wondering what you meant? Maybe guys that buy lightweight +3 pre-mixed usually, because thats what they've always done, and never looked into alternatives?


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## HQP2005 (Feb 14, 2012)

MercierPainting said:


> Ummmm, yes, yes I do. But maybe you could clarify in case anyone else lurking around was wondering what you meant? Maybe guys that buy lightweight +3 pre-mixed usually, because thats what they've always done, and never looked into alternatives?


I havent much experience with the quick-setting products like "easysand" of "durabond", but these products have been discussed at lenght in previous threads.

I typically use "sheetrock" pre-mix joint compound for patching (green bucket). The first coat I let set over night, then if I do a second coat first thing in the morning, I can usaully skim by the end of the day (in most cases).


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## TERRY365PAINTER (Jul 26, 2009)

Hey once you get the hang of quick set , it's great ! Cuz you can really mix it the way you like it . First coat thick, second coat less then skim float . Plus I wouldn't use the green bucket mudd for anything accept tape floats . Drywall repairs 
Stress cracks etc easy sand all the way .


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

Quick set for me. Not a fan of green or blue lid. I hate carrying the 5's, and I hate waiting for the stuff to dry. With quick set muds 3 coats in a day (with fans and a lil' heat) is a nice reality.


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## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

The "powder joint compound" that you mix on your own comes in different set times. 20,45,90 minute. Just like the premix stuff you can purchase it in easy sand(would be comprabale to blue lid) and durabond (comprable to green lid).

I personally dont think you get as smooth a finish with the stuff you have to mix, i find even when i really mix it right i will still get a bubble or two . drives me crazy. I use 90 minute for taping, 1st and second coat. will use premix green stuff for final coat.

Really depends on my timeframe which product i will use..but i have 45 min, 90 min and premix(easy sand and regular) in my van at all times.

If you switch over to hotmud, add a little dish soap when you mix it up. adds some lubrication.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

And with the soap, you get a nice fresh scent! Seriously though, it does make things smooth. The premix stuff has similar added surfactants. No scent though.....


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## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

kdpaint said:


> And with the soap, you get a nice fresh scent! Seriously though, it does make things smooth. The premix stuff has similar added surfactants. No scent though.....


I really like my dawn fresh breeze


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

Eh, whatevers on the HO's kitchen sink is good...:whistling2::no:


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## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

kdpaint said:


> Eh, whatevers on the HO's kitchen sink is good...:whistling2::no:


:laughing: idk even know if dawn fresh breeze is a scent


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## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

Steve Richards said:


> I don't like the boxes, because if you fold the plastic back over, it puts little pieces of dried crap onto your mud.
> 
> Taxes? What's the hurry...you still have a day!:thumbsup:


supposed to dump the box in a clean 5er, keep the sides of the bucket wiped down with a wet rag and when you're done put a bit of water on top.:thumbsup:


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## A+HomeWork (Dec 10, 2010)

Scotiadawg said:


> supposed to dump the box in a clean 5er, keep the sides of the bucket wiped down with a wet rag and when you're done put a bit of water on top.:thumbsup:


Ditto, Bro!! :thumbup:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

there are MANY significant differences between setting types (hot mud, powder, durabond, etc) and drying types (pre-mix). AND there are many differences between the different types of setting types and differences between the different flavors of drying types. 

But this is all basic stuff that I would have thought most painters knew.

This week I came on the job knowing I had to repair some horse hair plaster, so I brought my buttons, POP, durabond 45, all purpose (green lid) mud, lightweight (blue lid) mud, and some dry-dex. I was prepared for ALL scenarios.

The HO's had tried to fill an 1" deep, by 15" long by 2" wide corner "hole" with green lid the day before. It was still as wet as if he had just applied it. I had to dig it out.

Here's one of the major differences between pre-mix and a gypsum based patching material (setting type). Pre mix is not made for deep and large repairs. It will shrink and severely crack. You need a setting type, preferably POP or patching plaster. If you know how to work it, you can get a smooth surface. When almost fully set, you can wet the surface and smooth it out like the skim coaters do. At that point it is quite elastic and very workable.

the hot muds can be worked in a similar fashion, but it's all about timing.

Pre-mixes are good for a final skim coat where shrinking will not be a factor and when an evaporative dry will be more appropriate than a reactive dry.

the Durabonds have different ease of sandability. I find the 90 easier to sand than the 30. Obviously the Easy Sand is easier than Durabond. 

And the pre-mixes are still easier. 

ALSO, remember that USG Sheetrock ® Joint Compound comes in many varieties. Some of the varieties you may come across are Taping (has more adhesive), Topping (less shrinkage and less adhesive), and All-Purpose. For full product descriptions, they are all listed here:
http://www.usg.com/interiors/joint-compounds.html

And one final note, NEVER mix a pre-mix with a hot mud. The word on the street is that it creates an unmanageable high pH. I did do it many many years ago in my own home, and I will admit the mixture was REALLY nice. It had a long and workable open time, it filled a deep and wide crevice, did not shrink or crack, and was sandable. 

Now, to answer the OP more directly :whistling2:, For large areas that just need a skimming, I word stay with the green lid mud. I have a feeling you would be mixing up a new batch of hot mud every 30 minutes and throwing the hardened stuff away. If there are significant voids, then a hot mud would be better, but it does take practice to get good at applying it smoothly the first time to avoid excessive sanding.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

*Speaking of joint compound ...*

Often we hear opinions about which is better, paper tape or fiber glass (mesh) tape.

I was reading some of the FAQ's on USG's website and ran across this one. Something I never knew:

http://www.usg.com/sheetrock-all-purpose-joint-compound.html#tab-faqs


_Q: Can fiberglass tape be set with drying-type compounds? _

A: No. When using fiberglass tape, only setting-type joint compounds like SHEETROCK® Brand DURABOND® and SHEETROCK® Brand EASY SAND™ should be used for the first coat over the tape. Ready-mixed drying-type compounds can be used for subsequent finishing coats.


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## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

daArch said:


> Often we hear opinions about which is better, paper tape or fiber glass (mesh) tape.
> 
> I was reading some of the FAQ's on USG's website and ran across this one. Something I never knew:
> 
> ...


Papertape is better..mesh tape is a crime.


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## scottjr (Jan 14, 2012)

I've always used the blue lid premixed for all shallow patches. For deeper patches(nail pops) I use red devil one time (no shrink) for first coat and 2nd coat with the blue lid premixed. Occasionally, I will use the 20 min if I'm in a bind.


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## HQP2005 (Feb 14, 2012)

daArch said:


> there are MANY significant differences between setting types (hot mud, powder, durabond, etc) and drying types (pre-mix). AND there are many differences between the different types of setting types and differences between the different flavors of drying types.
> 
> But this is all basic stuff that I would have thought most painters knew.
> 
> .


Ill admit, I still have alot to learn. (im a creature of habit)

Thanks Bill for that post; definately the most comprehensive explaination on this topic that ive seen here. :yes:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Matthew,

after many years of not knowing enough, I took it upon myself to read, listen, watch, explore, and learn.

the internet is a great resource and the USG site has a lot facts about product performance.

also watching (in awe) how skim coaters work added a lot to my knowledge base. I wish I knew it all, but am far from that.

And once you know the facts, learning technique is a another step up the ladder.


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## Wood511 (Dec 13, 2010)

I would also recommend Myron Ferguson's drywall book - the 2008 version. Of course it's drywall and there's some basics in there, but there's a bunch of great info and lil tips and tricks that have helped me a great deal. One of which is bending the 12 inch finishing blade to eliminate knife edge marks - I never knew this and it works great!


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## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

daArch said:


> Often we hear opinions about which is better, paper tape or fiber glass (mesh) tape.
> 
> I was reading some of the FAQ's on USG's website and ran across this one. Something I never knew:
> 
> ...


Duh !


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## b2dap1 (Mar 18, 2009)

As usual it depends on the job. One day job 20 min is the only choice. I do like green lid for taping. Blue lid is so easy to sand smooth so its nice to finish with that. Always run a fan and crank up heat.


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## b2dap1 (Mar 18, 2009)

Really deep holes ill just start with plaster...dries in 5 mins no matter how deep! Then top off with 2 lite coats of 20 min. Ready to paint by lunch.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

StripandCaulk said:


> Papertape is better..mesh tape is a crime.


 How true!:thumbsup:


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

MercierPainting said:


> Is there a significant difference in powder joint compound as opposed to pre-mixed? I've always just used the pre-mixed, but have a very large amount of wall space to patch, and was not satisfied with how little the 1st bucket covered.
> 
> I saw online that a 41 lb box was similar in price to a bucket, but again, I've never used it and have no idea how much it makes. I tried the search with not much luck. Any help would be appreciated.
> 
> Now back to taxes for me...


 Lord have mercy Mercier!Big difference.Hot mix mud sets up quicker,can be applied in thicker coats without cracking,multiple coats applied in one setting,excuse the pun,and also dries to a harder finish when cured.On and On.:yes:


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## MercierPainting (Apr 3, 2012)

Thanks for all the input, what a wealth of information! 
The job is finally done, and was a good learning opportunity to try a few different products and methods. 
The main thing i learned though is that I hate lazy wallpaper hangers. 
Entire medical office, 1 primed wall in the whole place. 2, sometimes 3 layers of paper. Sizing? What's that?!


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