# questions regarding using peel bond



## jordanski (Feb 5, 2009)

I have sworn by 24 hour oil primer on cedar exteriors, but after reading some post and looking at their website I'm intrigued about using peel bond on jobs where I scrape the cedar siding down to bare wood. 30 mil is impressive...

could any of you guys who've done a similar project with this product chime on in what you think and any downsides you've experienced to using it?

one other thing, if my surface is pretty smooth, will it block the tannins on cedar in one coat? that's a biggie concern right there...

jordan


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## tsunamicontract (May 3, 2008)

i use it. its great stuff. I don't put it on at 30 mills though, maybe only 15. If you need a lot of leveling on some paint, some exposed wood I would do two thinner coats. First coat soaks in and seals the wood, second levels off paint profile. That stuff grips like crazy. For tannin mix in the XIM Bleed control to the peel bond.


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## jordanski (Feb 5, 2009)

so one coat definitely doesn't cover cedar? from the videos it appeared it really is most effective as a two coat process...

brushing a whole house twice isn't gonna fly with clients...

I'm assuming two coats with airless then would suffice... do you recommend brushbacking it if you spray? 

I always brushback my top coats, though I am fast enough on smaller houses I always do it by roller and bucket, old school and stubborn I guess, really doesnt' add that much time if you have perfect technique and the house is a monster...

jordan


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

30mil, are you thinking of there product called "trim magic" that stuff is like glue.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

These newer products are great if you are going to brush 2 finish topcoats, but for the 1-coat paint crowd - using a tinted oil primer on the bare wood helps get the coverage you want. I haven't tried the cedar block additive - but assuming it works - you still don't get the color coverage from one topcoat.


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## tsunamicontract (May 3, 2008)

have them tint the peelbond when it leaves the store. Back brush with one of those super cheap 4 inch brushes that is really soft and springy, you will fly through it and they do a great job. Like I said, the first coat will soak in and bond with the wood, 2nd will level things out nicely. You pretty much have to spray this stuff. I rolled and backbrushed it once but took forever. It sprays super well with very minimal overspray.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

tsunamicontract said:


> have them tint the peelbond when it leaves the store. Back brush with one of those super cheap 4 inch brushes that is really soft and springy, you will fly through it and they do a great job. Like I said, the first coat will soak in and bond with the wood, 2nd will level things out nicely. You pretty much have to spray this stuff. I rolled and backbrushed it once but took forever. It sprays super well with very minimal overspray.


I have found that peel bond doesn't take color well maybe a light color but even if you need it a medium color to go under a dark color one coat coverage is just not there.

I am using it as spot primer on cedar with good results and two top coats over it.


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## ParagonVA (Feb 3, 2009)

how much per gall. do you guys pay for it?


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

First of all peelbond only tints up to 2 ozs per gallon - even maddog which tints up to 4 ozs per gallon - which I have done with titanium dioxide - still only gives a hint of a white to an otherwise clear type sealer. And I don't really think this stuff really comes into it's own as a 'spot' primer. I'll stick with oil primers in that case. I do whole surfaces with this stuff - it's really meant to 'stabilize' a whole surface. If you spot prime - you'll run into the same issues of spots lifting up that didn't get scraped off in the last go round. In which case - just stick with a tinted oil primer to get decent penetration, stain blocking, and suitable surface for paint to bind to.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

plainpainter said:


> First of all peelbond only tints up to 2 ozs per gallon - even maddog which tints up to 4 ozs per gallon - which I have done with titanium dioxide - still only gives a hint of a white to an otherwise clear type sealer. And I don't really think this stuff really comes into it's own as a 'spot' primer. I'll stick with oil primers in that case. I do whole surfaces with this stuff - it's really meant to 'stabilize' a whole surface. If you spot prime - you'll run into the same issues of spots lifting up that didn't get scraped off in the last go round. In which case - just stick with a tinted oil primer to get decent penetration, stain blocking, and suitable surface for paint to bind to.



Plain on rough cedar which has weathered and not showing signs of bleed we have minimal peel and have found that the peel bond holds better. Oil primers have given nothing but problems on cedar over the last few yrs. most now are quick dry and brittle.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Oil primer is so 1960's
Plain, give it a fair try. Its much, much superior to oil primers.




jordanski said:


> brushing a whole house twice isn't gonna fly with clients...


I thought you always did was 2 coats?


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

I don't know if you guy's have tried Jasco Mask and seal, but it's like peel bond on steriods. Two coats of that is plenty good. I also use it for french window masking. Peels right off on glass, but you can't get it off on wood.Goes on milky and dries clear.


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## tsunamicontract (May 3, 2008)

Bender said:


> Oil primer is so 1960's
> Plain, give it a fair try. Its much, much superior to oil primers.


:yes::thumbsup:

I have mixed paint into my peel bond for better coverage. What color are you going to? I find a light grey works well. I you want to save some money on tinting it get a SW color to go sample and mix that in. Its not perfect but I have gone over it with one coat top coat before. I got a bunch of buckets last year at the pro show at SW for like 23 a gallon and still have two buckets left. Usually its a lot more.


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## jordanski (Feb 5, 2009)

*a couple of things...*

I was thinking of using it on "stripping to bare wood" type jobs, like he said to stabilize a roughed-up scrape out. I would only use oil primer in a spot primer situation, so I guess the consensus is two thin coats of peel bond sprayed over a house that has been scraped to bare wood, then the latex top coat.

1. If you think 24 hour oil primer sucks, come on you're serious? I use Miller 240 and I have several different projects in town that are 6 yrs. old, one thick coat of 24 hour oil primer and 2 coats standard latex jobs (by hand, not sprayed) on raw cedar/old paint that still look perfect... no fading, no failing, no bubbles...

2. Doing one coat tinted primer and one coat of latex is not a pro paintjob... No disrespect, nothing personal, that's hack work... why not charge a little more and sell real paintjobs? a paintjob with a 4 year life expectancy is a joke, I keep reading about stuff like this on the website and I'm flabbergasted... I don't mean to sound arrogant but I take my trade seriously...

3. to Bender, what I meant was brushing on the peel bond twice as an application method would be too time consuming... I would spray it... on the website videos they are brushing on the peel bond straight out of the can, no roller, 1920s style... that's what I was referring to... I always do two finish coats, bucket and roller w/ backbrush, I use Miller Acrylite, 

4. you shouldn't spray rough cedar, charge a little more, sell the high-end product, do one coat 24 hour oil, and 2 topcoats latex over an existing sound paintjob, apply them by hand with oversized roller nap, double your estimated paint usage, and that will last forever!!!! I've seen rough cedar houses look good after 10-13 years if done this way... no BS... but that's in my climate, super wet winters, but not a lot of snow...

now if you're doing new construction you get a pass on this one, as I know they would laugh you off the jobsite if you show up with buckets and fat naps... and I love getting calls for repaints on houses that were built 4 years ago, clients are already sold on the quality, down for whatever, like "please, just do it right".

and extreme weather towns, chicago, buffalo, I dunno, maybe 4-6 years is the best you can get outta latex, can't say, don't work there... so I hope I ain't ruffling your nutsack feathers!



oooooh sheeeat, had two big jobs fall out of the sky today, about 50k in work between the two, full exterior restorations with some finish carpentry & repaint, already on retainer and working on the price-out for one, got no competing bids on the other and will have a price worked out by friday... got stuff booked from last year but new calls have been real slow in coming in and mostly tiny jobs... so oh **** I had a good day, the kid is back!!! :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

here's to your phones ringing off the hook, best of luck boys, I hope everybody comes up huge this summer, save your money, no new 55" TVs!


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## jordanski (Feb 5, 2009)

*johnpaint*



johnpaint said:


> I don't know if you guy's have tried Jasco Mask and seal, but it's like peel bond on steriods. Two coats of that is plenty good. I also use it for french window masking. Peels right off on glass, but you can't get it off on wood.Goes on milky and dries clear.



I love Jasco Mask... it is a must for windows and doors with tons of tiny windows... 

but, aren't you supposed to prime bare wood before applying? the container says apply "when ready to paint" which sorta sounds like "primered"... and my sales rep said apply to primed surfaces,not bare wood..

have you used it on bare wood and had it work? now that would sure make it more useful...

jordan


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## premierpainter (Apr 17, 2007)

jordanski said:


> 1. If you think 24 hour oil primer sucks, come on you're serious? I use Miller 240 and I have several different projects in town that are 6 yrs. old, one thick coat of 24 hour oil primer and 2 coats standard latex jobs (by hand, not sprayed) on raw cedar/old paint that still look perfect... no fading, no failing, no bubbles...
> THe problem that 24 hour primer has is that everything sticks to it...mold spores, pollen and every other airborne subtance.
> Mold, can, will start growing from under the paint that is applied over a slow drying primer. Then you have to strip the house.
> Peelbond is a good, not great product. We mix in gallons of colored paint to get a tinted primer. 30 mils is not going to happen, it will sag. It covered up small problem areas, but not around areas that were sanded. I will use it again, but make sure that it is in your budget. A five gallon bucket does not go far.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

jordanski said:


> I love Jasco Mask... it is a must for windows and doors with tons of tiny windows...
> 
> but, aren't you supposed to prime bare wood before applying? the container says apply "when ready to paint" which sorta sounds like "primered"... and my sales rep said apply to primed surfaces,not bare wood..
> 
> ...


Yes I have and if you can get to come off your a tougher man that me. I always use a old brush when I apply it because you can't really get it off your brush either.It's the same thing as peel bond but not as duluted.I have sprayed jasco too, but use an old tip head you can live without.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Also, I only use it on really bad areas, not your run of the mill peeling.


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## jordanski (Feb 5, 2009)

*premier....*

THe problem that 24 hour primer has is that everything sticks to it...mold spores, pollen and every other airborne subtance.
Mold, can, will start growing from under the paint that is applied over a slow drying primer. Then you have to strip the house.

I believe the primer I use has a mold/mildewcide, and the latex topcoat I use for sure has one, I have never seen this problem on any of my projects, before or after I've painted them... and never heard another painter complain of it (although to be fair I don't really hang out with more than a couple of painters whose opinion I value)...

I've seen surface black spot that came off with P-washing, never anything coming up through the paint... I'm curious if you're basing this on personal experience?... do you see this a lot in new jersey with your own eyes? not calling B.S. on you, but it something I'd be curious about, and I'm skeptical as I think seattle has got to be the most mold-friendly city... everything that gets wet stays wet from about mid november to april-ish.... and I've never encountered this... 

I don't see how pollen sticking to primer is relevant, when I paint 1st coat latex I keep a rattle can of cover stain & 120 grit on my person, anything sticking gets scuffed off and touched up w/ rattle can if needed... I do see quite a few annoying insects like the smell of the primer, I try not to prime on really windy days if possible...

a good coat of 24 hour oil penetrates old growth cedar deeeeep like nothing else, and every retired old school cat I know swears by it... now hardie is a different story, but I think for cedar I'll need more convincing...

jordan


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## APF (Jun 6, 2009)

I've had good sucess with Peel Bond here in Michigan - but like anything prepping is everything. I don't think the product goes far either - its so thick its not going to. I like how it performs and yes just put some color in it it helps. Good build and usefull on "certain" jobs but not all.


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## HeadHoncho (Apr 17, 2007)

jordanski said:


> I love Jasco Mask... it is a must for windows and doors with tons of tiny windows...
> 
> but, aren't you supposed to prime bare wood before applying? the container says apply "when ready to paint" which sorta sounds like "primered"... and my sales rep said apply to primed surfaces,not bare wood..
> 
> ...


In the video for Jasco Mask, they are spraying it on a bare wood door! Hmmmm......


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## kurtlewis (Jul 4, 2010)

tsunamicontract said:


> :yes::thumbsup:
> 
> I have mixed paint into my peel bond for better coverage. What color are you going to? I find a light grey works well. I you want to save some money on tinting it get a SW color to go sample and mix that in. Its not perfect but I have gone over it with one coat top coat before. I got a bunch of buckets last year at the pro show at SW for like 23 a gallon and still have two buckets left. Usually its a lot more.


Quick questions on Peel Bond, if you can help: 
> at what ratio are you mixing paint to Peel Bond and what type of paint do you recommend? 
> How much coverage are you getting "real world" with the Peel Bond product? 
I like the idea of mixing in paint for pre-tint and added coverage.

We're looking at doing an old 1920's Beverly Hills home, roughly 1600sf. The exterior is 12" cedar lap smooth siding / mostly clear (very few knots) / surface is in decent shape so won't need to do much leveling and there is not much evidence of tannin bleed. Siding has had semi-transparent brown stain applied but has since faded out over the years. The wood is quite dry and brittle at this point.

Some areas need a bit of patching (minor holes, divots etc), and a good cleaning is in order to get off the dust and cobwebs but that's about it. Owner wants to go with a light gray or white satin and we're thinking prime + a good quality latex. I have not done any jobs on on old cedar before so looking for some experienced guidance. 

TIA-


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## Your Painters (Jun 6, 2011)

*Peel Bond Pros & Cons*

Pros: It has a near identical consistency to Elmer's glue. It will soften the edges between multiple layers of old paint and none. As an alternative it can be blended with paint to boost the effectiveness of your paint. When used straight it forms a rubber-like coating - think thick latex mask wrapped on your surface.

Cons: It's very expensive to use - at $50 a gallon the coverage is less than half a more standard product. This will be a very costly teacher if the surface is not prepped properly and dried properly. If anything underneath prevents full bonding you will end up with a sheet of rubber that can literally be cut away ewith a utility knife. The product can level out layers of paint to a degree, but I would set your expectations realistically. It will round edges, not eliminate them.

Hope this helps.


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## cappaint (May 24, 2011)

Your Painters said:


> Pros: It has a near identical consistency to Elmer's glue. It will soften the edges between multiple layers of old paint and none. As an alternative it can be blended with paint to boost the effectiveness of your paint. When used straight it forms a rubber-like coating - think thick latex mask wrapped on your surface.
> 
> Cons: It's very expensive to use - at $50 a gallon the coverage is less than half a more standard product. This will be a very costly teacher if the surface is not prepped properly and dried properly. If anything underneath prevents full bonding you will end up with a sheet of rubber that can literally be cut away ewith a utility knife. The product can level out layers of paint to a degree, but I would set your expectations realistically. It will round edges, not eliminate them.
> 
> Hope this helps.


 


I have a cedar job Im doing where the cedar was primed and painted already.....The red top coat is peeling in some spots and the acrylic peels right off the house. If take off all the very loose paint and us Peelbond to spot prime willl it prevent further peeling or failure?


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## BreatheEasyHP (Apr 24, 2011)

A note about the oil v. acrylic primer debate:

Older houses were often originally built drafty, which naturally regulates interior moisture, especially when there's a significant difference between the interior and exterior air temperature.

Sometimes renovations on an older houses include air sealing, new windows, and other things that decrease air exchanges, so humidity can build in the house. Some have ventilators (hopefully HRVs) installed, many don't.

So a good question to ask a homeowner is if renovations were made, when they were made, and if there was a certain time that paint started failing a lot. If they line up, you might suspect that interior moisture is a problem, in which case putting on an oil primer would not be advisable due to its vapor impermeability. What's more advisable in those cases is to get the client to add a siding vent or two and/or add a decent ventilation system, as well as use an acrylic (like Peel Bond) primer. And, as always, use a moisture meter.


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## markcool (May 25, 2012)

I have lead paint on an exterior with extreme alligatoring but overall a very good bond. There are a few areas where we need to scrpae loose paint and feather in. (And yes we're using lead-safe practices and spending a mint on 4 mil plastic, etc.) 

It sounds like this is a good option, as the homeowner doesn't want to spend the money to go all the way down to the wood.

In the areas where we're scraping and feathering, it seems like the general opinion is that the peelbond will adhere to the bare wood, am i correct here?


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

Yes it will. But does not block stains. There is an additive for it. But I haven't try it yet.

Sent from Android Phone using Paint Talk


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