# spraying booth grade cv for first time on monday, not in booth



## darrpreb00 (Aug 31, 2008)

I just got a job in a very nice house refinishing some cabinets. They have the most perfect low sheen finish (pigmented) on them. But they are pink. It is conversion varnish and has set the bar pretty high. I may be able tk figure out exact product but, at this point, im not sure what to even use to spray it. I suppose I should get a cup gun... anyone here firmiliar with cv? I always use pigmented lacquer. Is it all about thinning it right? Any favorite sw products if I cant figure out the exact one that was used? Im excited for this kinda.....


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

darrpreb00 said:


> I just got a job in a very nice house refinishing some cabinets. They have the most perfect low sheen finish (pigmented) on them. But they are pink. It is conversion varnish and has set the bar pretty high. I may be able tk figure out exact product but, at this point, im not sure what to even use to spray it. I suppose I should get a cup gun... anyone here firmiliar with cv? I always use pigmented lacquer. Is it all about thinning it right? Any favorite sw products if I cant figure out the exact one that was used? Im excited for this kinda.....


If they are pink it was most likely pickling white stain and lacquer. Doesn't really matter though. If you are asking how to apply with appropriate system, you may be in over your head unless they are ok with a solid body finish. If your goal is to tone, you have too much of a OJT learning curve to tackle this one.


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## darrpreb00 (Aug 31, 2008)

This isnt rocket science for me. Shot many cars, cabinets, trim. Its thats how we learn. I would probably guess the same about the everyday painter. If there is something I cant paint I have a huge problem with that. Ive hired 50 guys that would ruin this house. I wont stop till its perfect though. I will sand those pink bastards down 100 times. im pretty darn good with a gun and very determined. short of waiting till monday when I nail down a product, read the can, do more research and drop some cash on a new gun( with the right sized tip) All the cabinet guys use cv around here.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Do what you want. You asked for product specs and specific spray apparatus. I think if you are asking these questions, then its kind of risky. 

My next question is why did you hire 50 guys that would ruin the house? Seems kinda expensive and pointless.


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## darrpreb00 (Aug 31, 2008)

Geeze, get off your pedistool and help a brother out. Your always brushing above


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## darrpreb00 (Aug 31, 2008)

Paradigmzz said:


> Do what you want. You asked for product specs and specific spray apparatus. I think if you are asking these questions, then its kind of risky.
> 
> My next question is why did you hire 50 guys that would ruin the house? Seems kinda expensive and pointless.


Hahahaha, just talking about painters ive hired in the past! Couldnt even spray a house


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

darrpreb00 said:


> This isnt rocket science for me. Shot many cars, cabinets, trim. Its thats how we learn. I would probably guess the same about the everyday painter. If there is something I cant paint I have a huge problem with that. Ive hired 50 guys that would ruin this house. I wont stop till its perfect though. I will sand those pink bastards down 100 times. im pretty darn good with a gun and very determined. short of waiting till monday when I nail down a product, read the can, do more research and drop some cash on a new gun( with the right sized tip) All the cabinet guys use cv around here.



And if you have to sand them down a hundred times, and trust a can over real world knowledge (what to do for fisheye, blushing, proper reonduction techniques, etc. ) then go for it. I may not have been absolutely agreeable in my response but its because i have done what you are asking a thousand times and your question is a very involved answer based on numerous variables, your skill set being paramount to the equation.


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## darrpreb00 (Aug 31, 2008)

Paradigmzz said:


> And if you have to sand them down a hundred times, and trust a can over real world knowledge (what to do for fisheye, blushing, proper reonduction techniques, etc. ) then go for it. I may not have been absolutely agreeable in my response but its because i have done what you are asking a thousand times and your question is a very involved answer based on numerous variables, your skill set being paramount to the equation.


Why are you so sour? Iknow about fisheyeing, reduction, not sure about blushing but, im trying to get real world knowledge here. You act like your lingo is going to scare me or is a foriegn language. Now if your not going to help, go talk down on someone else. Ok, thank you very much. Glad you could help.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Sorry,

Im on vacation. Painting has been good to me. If you think im an azz then ill respond in kind. Here's the view from my front porch on the top of Angel Fire. 

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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Come pull up a chair and we can talk.

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## darrpreb00 (Aug 31, 2008)

Haha, nice. I tryed to attach pics of cabs to show but wants me to provide a link? Gotta show you the afters when im done too. I thrive off of people that tell me I cant do it. Thats what has got me this far. I needed you to say that. So thanks but, step back Pa, I got this. Hoarding your knowledge will not slow this younge buck down. Im coming for ya. You can hold on to your seat.


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## darrpreb00 (Aug 31, 2008)

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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

darrpreb00 said:


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Dam that's ugly! You will do fine. I thought you were gonna tone. Solid colors are fine. Trial and error and keep trucking. Sorry I had to go play a wicked game of disc golf on the very top of the mountain. That 18 hole course is wicked tough.


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## darrpreb00 (Aug 31, 2008)

Keep boasting, sitting in my ac house is nice for me. Im an inch away from pulling the trigger on a graco finishpro II 295. It doesnt have a cup gun option though.... I dont like mixing cup after cup now that I think about it anyways. Cant decide what to get. I have like 10 airlesses but, always wanted an hvlp or assisted. The capspray looks cool but, is an hvlp really that big of a downgrade from air assisted airless? If it helps me prove my pa wrong im getting it, lol


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

darrpreb00 said:


> Keep boasting, sitting in my ac house is nice for me. Im an inch away from pulling the trigger on a graco finishpro II 295. It doesnt have a cup gun option though.... I dont like mixing cup after cup now that I think about it anyways. Cant decide what to get. I have like 10 airlesses but, always wanted an hvlp or assisted. The capspray looks cool but, is an hvlp really that big of a downgrade from air assisted airless? If it helps me prove my pa wrong im getting it, lol


AAA is for production. I have a Graco 290 AAA, and its great for doors, and tight areas, but for that HVLP would be the way to go


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## Susan (Nov 29, 2011)

J.O sesh, all day.


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## darrpreb00 (Aug 31, 2008)

Whats jo sesh? I do trim packages and doors all the time. It would be nice to get a versitile machine. I dont ever do 2 qt projects really. I guess I do single doors here and there. Not really interested in using aaa for its airless function but I like the idea of adjusting the fluid pressure. Its kinda seeming like the way to go. I wish they made a setup with a cup and pressure pot option.... does one atomize better?


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

darrpreb00 said:


> Whats jo sesh? I do trim packages and doors all the time. It would be nice to get a versitile machine. I dont ever do 2 qt projects really. I guess I do single doors here and there. Not really interested in using aaa for its airless function but I like the idea of adjusting the fluid pressure. Its kinda seeming like the way to go. I wish they made a setup with a cup and pressure pot option.... does one atomize better?


If you want a cup gun you can buy 2 different styles (gravity feed, and pressure feed) those guns are usually fairly small but easy to clean and set up (just need a compressor). I have a turbine HVLP, it holds 2 quarts, and heats up nice. You really have to stay on tip of the cleaning though. I had the whole paint system sitting I'm lacquer thinner for a month before using it again and I still had particulates


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## darrpreb00 (Aug 31, 2008)

journeymanPainter said:


> If you want a cup gun you can buy 2 different styles (gravity feed, and pressure feed) those guns are usually fairly small but easy to clean and set up (just need a compressor). I have a turbine HVLP, it holds 2 quarts, and heats up nice. You really have to stay on tip of the cleaning though. I had the whole paint system sitting I'm lacquer thinner for a month before using it again and I still had particulates


So you got the turbine cup gun and aaa? If you could only have 1 for fine finish which would it be?


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## darrpreb00 (Aug 31, 2008)

Probably little water based ****ties in there. I will make sure to run lots of water after a water product


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

darrpreb00 said:


> So you got the turbine cup gun and aaa? If you could only have 1 for fine finish which would it be?


I honestly don't know. I only paid $100 for my HVLP (which was a steal) but its awesome for smaller things like clear coating a fir ceiling we just did.

Like I said in the earlier post I love at AAA for doing doors, its great for trim pretty much anything where a power machine isn't needed.

That probably doesn't answer your question buy I hope it helps


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## darrpreb00 (Aug 31, 2008)

journeymanPainter said:


> I honestly don't know. I only paid $100 for my HVLP (which was a steal) but its awesome for smaller things like clear coating a fir ceiling we just did.
> 
> Like I said in the earlier post I love at AAA for doing doors, its great for trim pretty much anything where a power machine isn't needed.
> 
> That probably doesn't answer your question buy I hope it helps


No it does. In getting the aaa I think. I do doors and trim all the time. I got a spray tech 400 something at at garage sale for $10 last year! Its an awesome pump. The oainter gad died and wife sold it:blink:


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

If you got any kind of volume spraying to do, (like a whole set of cabinets) I would much rather spray with a remote pressure pot and a decent gun, than any kind of cup/gravity gun. The only benefits of a cup gun are easy clean up, as being able to spray with smaller amounts of material (no line to fill), and the disadvantages are having to constantly fill the cup, and being limited on the angles you can spray. 

HVLP just means a conventional sprayer optimized to operate at lower pressure. If overspray is a real big concern, that might be the way to go. But they have there drawbacks too. 

IMO, a tank like this with a good gun is the easiest, most effective way to spray conventionally when you need more than a quart of material at a time. With a good gun, you have very good adjustment capabilities for fluid/air pressure, and fan size. 

http://www.graco.com/us/en/products/finishing/aluminum-non-asme-pressur-tanks.html


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## darrpreb00 (Aug 31, 2008)

Good to know. We used pressure pots when I worked a a spray shop. I wonder if my harbor frieght pancake would run that. Not exactly portable if I have to cart a big guy around. Basically the same as aaa only uses air to pump fluid instead of piston? Can both be controlled as easily?


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

Don't use "booth grade" CV in an occupied home while using a cup gun. 

Unless you like fire. 

__________________________________

Paradigmzz is steering you in the right direction - this isn't a project for the inexperienced. 

That said, if you're going to do the job, look into 2K waterborne CV's. More sanding but much safer. Surfaces must be clean, clean, clean or you will have big problems. 

Cup/gravity gun (binks, devbliss, sata etc), air compressor that can put out at least 10 cfm. 20 gallon tank size minimum (unless using turbine). Pressure pot is a good idea. Needle #2 or #3. Don't overthin material. Don't build too many mils - result will look like plastic. 

There are a lot of caveats when doing this type of project, but that should set you in the right direction.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

darrpreb00 said:


> Good to know. We used pressure pots when I worked a a spray shop. I wonder if my harbor frieght pancake would run that. Not exactly portable if I have to cart a big guy around. Basically the same as aaa only uses air to pump fluid instead of piston? Can both be controlled as easily?


If you don't have the air storage capacity on a typical compressor, you will not have the CFM to sustain the pressure required to spray.

This is what I never really quite understood about how a turbine air supply unit without a compressed air capacity tank, could sustain cfm. Then I discovered that the design of the turbine blades, along with stage levels, could indeed sustain the air pressure required to spray.


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## darrpreb00 (Aug 31, 2008)

If the waterbourne lays out nice, where does the sanding come in? Before? Can anyone second the waterbourne idea? I was going to vent all rooms. I like the idea because I found out that I will develope cracking if the previous coat is lacquer


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## darrpreb00 (Aug 31, 2008)

Im sold on the 2k waterbourne. Just read a small book on conversion varnishes. There are all sorts of woodworkers out there spraying it like its nothing. There isnt a thickness tolerence either. Im just going to stop at the auto store and grab measuring cups, degreaser, research the product i get from sw and treat it like a car. The contaminated kitchen thing is really my only worry. Im eondering if auto degreaser is s good idea. Tsp? I will clean it twice and use a vinyl sealer. I will post with nightmare questions soon, please stand by....


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

I thought there was a thickness max with cv? 


Sent from my blah blah blah


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## darrpreb00 (Aug 31, 2008)

Damon T said:


> I thought there was a thickness max with cv?
> 
> 
> Sent from my blah blah blah


Not with the waterbourne 2k cv I read about today. Not to say its true. I would check the specs. 

I just recieved confirmation that they were indeed originally finished with normal cv. Is the thickness max measured per coat or all coats? Do I have to measure thickness of pink coats and add to new coats to determine thickness? Or just measure wet per coat? I think I will still use 2k. Besides price it sounds as unbelievable as peel bond


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

darrpreb00 said:


> Not with the waterbourne 2k cv I read about today. Not to say its true. I would check the specs.
> 
> I just recieved confirmation that they were indeed originally finished with normal cv. Is the thickness max measured per coat or all coats? Do I have to measure thickness of pink coats and add to new coats to determine thickness? Or just measure wet per coat? I think I will still use 2k. Besides price it sounds as unbelievable as peel bond


Per coat.


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

Damon T said:


> I thought there was a thickness max with cv?
> 
> 
> Sent from my blah blah blah


5 mil (125 µm) max total dft for most solvent cv's i've used. Some waterborne cv's also have this as a maximum tolerance, while others remain flexible at a much higher dft - though those would be better described as waterborne lacquers than conversion varnishes.


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## darrpreb00 (Aug 31, 2008)

Rcon said:


> 5 mil (125 µm) max total dft for most solvent cv's i've used. Some waterborne cv's also have this as a maximum tolerance, while others remain flexible at a much higher dft - though those would be better described as waterborne lacquers than conversion varnishes.


Chemical coatings said holy hell no. Not good to apply new coat over old cabinets in house. Use xim 400 over that with some reduced proclassic oil.... Whatever. Proclassic is bs. Thick as exterior paint. I should go get dome unique II. Am I wrong?

bought a titan turbine 6 stage today though! Comes in on Wednesday:thumbup:


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## darrpreb00 (Aug 31, 2008)

Can anyone get that proclassic to lay flat without orange peel? Do I reduce the whole 20%?
im guessing it wont shoot out of the hvlp after reading some stuff on here....


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

You can get almost anything to shoot out of the 6 stage but you will need to thin. If you are going pigmented then I 2nd the bonding primer / enamel route. Problem is I would be using something that I had used before , something in my comfort zone. 
You can get good results with PC oil. I would use whatever you are most familiar with. 


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## darrpreb00 (Aug 31, 2008)

Ive been using kelly moore durapoxy for a while now. Before that I used sw builders solo and rodda unique II. This is an sw referral and im needing to use thier paint... I agree Damon. Thanks


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## darrpreb00 (Aug 31, 2008)

Am I wrong in thinking that a surface that is prepped completely smooth should be sprayed with a product that is thin as car paint? Why all that extra thickness? So you dont have to prep it perfect? To maintain elasticity? To torment me with orange peel? Ive always wondered. Im about to go to the auto paint store.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Auto paint and paint for wood have different properties. And never the twain shall meet. 


Sent from my blah blah blah


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## darrpreb00 (Aug 31, 2008)

Thanks Damon. I take it back about proclassic alkyd. ! It lays out like a dream! I reduced with 16 oz thinner and 6 oz penetrol ( not sure if it needed it but, made me feel better) I sprayed with a 312, prob could have done 310 and it atomized so beautifully. One pass and it was coated even. Not 2 like most waterbased ive been using.(maybe tip was too big. It dryed with zero orange peel and couldnt look better. Its like lacquer only it takes way too long to dry. 


This is just after xim 400. I didnt take any finish pics


this isnt even all the doors/ drawers


here is more. In the back room too if you look



this is the laundry room



There are 2 bathrooms like this that will be black. I know you guys see and do this stuff all day but, I will post some picks of the satin finish when its put back togather. It took 2 of use 5 days to quaratine off these areas and spray a finish. I still have to flip doors, spray, spray black and flip doors then put this nightmare back together. Gonna be like 120 hrs when im done. Im going to divide by the 80 doors and that puts mr at 1.5 hrs per door/ drawer roughly. Im pretty stoked to have found a paint that sprayed and lays out perfect.


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## darrpreb00 (Aug 31, 2008)

Here are some after pics of this jobby. I cant stess enough how beautiful that proclassic layed out and how hard it got. (After a week, lol) 


Ive been waiting on them to finish the backsplash. The second I was done the homeowner decided to raise the cabinet over the stove 
so I was waiting to take a pic of that too


This is 1 of 2 bathrooms we did. Its satin too



This laundry room has more cabinets than my kitchen



I tried to take a close up of sheen and finish. Cant see much but, homeowner says it looks just as smooth as conversion varnish and thats all that matters. This took 125 hrs


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## Monstertruck (Oct 26, 2013)

Start to finish 125 hours?
Holy Moly!:notworthy:
I hope you're pulling some big numbers on this one.....


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## darrpreb00 (Aug 31, 2008)

:thumbup: I missed you. I was feeling so positive and happy lately. I was really hoping you could try and reel me down from the clouds here. Thank you!! Bless Mrs. Monster and your little Monsterlets. Mostly for making it so easy to be a succesfull painting contractor.. I get told about the guys like you after I get jobs. How sour, stuck up and burnt out all the other guys were that I bid against. I know its hard for you but, someones got to do it. Just keep doing your thing. Thank you:thumbsup:


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## jw129943 (Apr 3, 2014)

Turned out beautifully! What a huge job!


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## darrpreb00 (Aug 31, 2008)

jw129943 said:


> Turned out beautifully! What a huge job!


Thank you very much. It was a huge one and the home owner was as picky as it gets. Compulsive but, nice guy . The light grey we picked is a nice cab color. Off white was too light for counters and appliances. There were 80+ doors/ drawers!!! We went 2 days over budget but the pics, experience learned were awesome. Im proud of it. Couldnt have turned out any better. Pro classic alkyd all the way


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