# Spraying pigmented shellac: safety required?



## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

From an explosion/fire concern what does one need to do?

I read the can, the tds and the few posts on here referencing it. 

Wanna spray it for some trim only and not for fire restoration nor to lock down wall smells.

Is it as simple as no pilot lights and a fan in the window or is more needed?

Is the danger as high as spraying nitro lacquer or less?


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

No pilots (check water heater, stove, and I'd turn the thermostat off and check the furnace)....i don't spray much of it personally but yes, use the same precautions as you would with lacquer. I'd be over zealous and be careful with the fan also as it could be a source of ignition in a small space. I'd open windows or?? (Mask with the intention of cutting a slit down the middle of the window, assuming there are windows) when you're done
For a few then bring the fan in... again, I don't spray it (or use it for that matter) much so I'd definitely err on the side of caution though some may see it as silly....i don't like things that go boom....especially if it's me!

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## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

I'd imagine thinning down and spraying an oil base would be just a problematic, right?

I enjoy spraying bin outside when I'm pre priming interior trim. Never used it inside after the fact.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

Ok...what is the project? What are you priming? Are you sealing stains or going for bond?

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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

Like PaintChic said, what are you attempting to do with a pigmented shellac? 

The only reasons to really use shellac are:

1.) Bridge Coating

2.) Locking in tannins, sap, smoke odor, etc.

3.) Possible historical work / compatibility.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

With proper ventilation you reduce the concentration of alcohol vapor. According to one of the Zinsser BINS Safety Data Sheets, BIN has a LEL (Lower Explosive Limit) of 3.5% of air volume and a UEL (Upper Explosive Limit) of 19% of air volume. Any thing below the LEL is considered too lean to explode, and anything above the UEL is considered too rich to explode. 


Also keep in mind that the alcohol vehicle evaporates quickly reducing the concentrations very rapidly. One way to be certain you are outside of the range of the LEL and UEL is to have a gas meter that is calibrated to sense these lower explosive limits.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

You should use explosion proof fans in addition to all else listed, but I've done it several times with regular fans though it did make me nervous. 

What I did was just spray a little at a time. Take frequent breaks to let the house air out. 


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Jmayspaint said:


> You should use explosion proof fans in addition to all else listed, but I've done it several times with regular fans though it did make me nervous.
> 
> What I did was just spray a little at a time. Take frequent breaks to let the house air out.
> 
> ...


It can't be argued that the best safety practice is to use explosion proof (or sealed) motors when ventilating flammable materials. But it can be argued that if you spray BIN below it's flash point of 65 degrees F, you dramatically reduce the risk of explosion.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

So I shouldn't spray it in my garage with a gas water heater there. I have a couple times and didn't even think about it. Yikes! 

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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Rbriggs82 said:


> So I shouldn't spray it in my garage with a gas water heater there. I have a couple times and didn't even think about it. Yikes!
> 
> Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk


Not to worry. You would have needed a combination at, or above, 3.5% vapor mixture in the air, along with temps above 65 degrees F. And no ventilation.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Temps were in the low 80's but I'm in a makeshift spray booth with a door open direct behind it with a fan blowing out. Prolly okay but maybe I shouldn't, I was planning on doing it again tomorrow but maybe I'll just do it outside to be safe. 

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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Temps were in the low 80's but I'm in a makeshift spray booth with a door open direct behind it with a fan blowing out. Prolly okay but maybe I stop, I was planning on doing it again tomorrow but maybe I'll just do it outside to be safe.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk


It would be interesting if one of our PT video producers could demonstrate what an environment of sprayed BIN would look like at 3.5% vapor to air volume using a gas metering device. With no ignition sources of course.

Maybe PAC could do this in his test shed after he removes the jars of pickled eye balls and pigs feet.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

Are you volunteering CA?

"If all else fails, blame the drywallers."


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

lilpaintchic said:


> Are you volunteering CA?
> 
> "If all else fails, blame the drywallers."


I'd be interested, but I have yet to make a video for PT. We have gas meters, but I'd have to find out what they are calibrated for, and if they can actually measure the percentage of volatile vapor from BIN. 

My guess is, you'd have to be boxed in a crazy cloud of vapor with no ventilation in order for an explosion to occur. I don't believe most painters are placing themselves in that situation. But common sense would suggest no open flames around any vaporized alcohol. The BIN SDS recommends not to smoke while spraying BIN. Duh.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

CApainter said:


> I'd be interested, but I have yet to make a video for PT. We have gas meters, but I'd have to find out what they are calibrated for, and if they can actually measure the percentage of volatile vapor from BIN.
> 
> My guess is, you'd have to be boxed in a crazy cloud of vapor with no ventilation in order for an explosion to occur. I don't believe most painters are placing themselves in that situation. But common sense would suggest no open flames around any vaporized alcohol. The BIN SDS recommends not to smoke while spraying BIN. Duh.


Uhhhh....we're painters. We bag ourselves in and create great plumes of vapor. And get paid for it (if we don't make it go boom, that is)

"If all else fails, blame the drywallers."


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## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

Just painting trim. I like that it dries fast, sands easy, sticks well and doesn't raise grain. 

I always have avoided it inside due to explosion concerns. I just was wondering what y'all do since apparently I'm only interested in spraying trim packs while others on here have spent full days spraying it for fire damage...which has got to be a butt load more spraying then I ever plan to do. 

Just curious about doing it safe. 

Same token, is spraying an oil based alkyd come with the same precautions?


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

sayn3ver said:


> Just painting trim. I like that it dries fast, sands easy, sticks well and doesn't raise grain.
> 
> I always have avoided it inside due to explosion concerns. I just was wondering what y'all do since apparently I'm only interested in spraying trim packs while others on here have spent full days spraying it for fire damage...which has got to be a butt load more spraying then I ever plan to do.
> 
> ...


Is it wood or mdf trim that you're priming? I'm guessing wood as you're worried about raising the grain....
Yes, you can just use coverstain (oil) on it, don't need to thin it. Yes, you still need to use caution but it's not quite as volatile as alcohol. I'm wondering though if an undercoater or sealgrip or even 123 might be fine for what you're doing? This undercoater is awesome! Dries fast, ez sand...might be worth looking into.? I've used it a couple of times now and have been pretty happy with it over new substrates. Going over an existing clear finish I'd probably stick with oil (old dog, doesn't like new tricks...)
when we shoot oil it's coverstain and I've never worried about is as long as there's some way to vent when were done shooting. I still use caution around gas appliances though. Better to err on the side of caution than to wish I had.









"If all else fails, blame the drywallers."


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

That stuffs great, but it doesnt block stains or have exceptionally high adhesion,. Its my go to for sandable primer for sure, but for old cabinets, I usually Bin first for stainblocking and adhesion.

I know for preprimed trim, and doors its great. I havent actually tried it on totally raw wood yet, so I dont know if stains pop through.


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## ParamountPaint (Aug 25, 2016)

I've sprayed plenty on fire jobs, years ago.

The ones I worked on were mostly gutted so if you opened all the Windows and doors, it vented outside pretty quick.

Could have been dangerous...i couldn't say for a fact, but I never had any problems. Many times, the utilities were disconected, so there weren't too many ignition sources.

We ran sprayers off of a generator that was far outside or a temp power service on a pole.

Many sprayers died as a result of generators. Still penciled out.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Thanks to this thread I turned off my gas water heater when spraying bin today. 

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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

lilpaintchic said:


> Uhhhh....we're painters. We bag ourselves in and create great plumes of vapor. And get paid for it (if we don't make it go boom, that is)
> 
> "If all else fails, blame the drywallers."


 I don't know. That's pretty hard core.:surprise: I'd just as soon brush everything with water based paints knowing I was safe and comfy and pleased I was listening to Celtic Women on my personal listening device.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

CApainter said:


> I don't know. That's pretty hard core.:surprise: I'd just as soon brush everything with water based paints knowing I was safe and comfy and pleased I was listening to Celtic Women on my personal listening device.


Pansy.
We bag, blow and get the heck outta there asap....it especially sucks in the summer time...

"If all else fails, blame the drywallers."


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

Over forty years ago, I painted the kitchen in our rented apartment, with alkyd semi, and my beautiful bride, said I smell gas.
I told her babe, that's just the solvents from the paint gassing off. Well long story short she calls the gas company and says, she thinks we have a leak. Well 20 minutes later the doorbell rings and 2 guy from Peoples Gas walk in with their meter and say what's the problem? I tell them I just painted the kitchen with oil, and they look at each other and start laughing their asses off.
I tell them I told her this was normal and she wouldn't listen! :surprise:


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

lilpaintchic said:


> Pansy.
> We bag, blow and get the heck outta there asap....it especially sucks in the summer time...
> 
> "If all else fails, blame the drywallers."


Well, I'd listen to Prince, but I get really strange looks from people when I start bustin a move. I guess air bumps with your crack showing isn't too popular anymore.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

CApainter said:


> Well, I'd listen to Prince, but I get really strange looks from people when I start bustin a move. I guess air bumps with your crack showing isn't too popular anymore.


Thats never stopped me. I used to be in a Prince Tribute band!


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## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

So what's the consensus?
I have used the ppg undercoat product before. It doesn't spray well through my hvlp. Its very similar to SW wall and wood .

The job doesn't require loading the airless up.

I enjoy spraying bin for this sort of thing. Im familiar with it except for the indoor spraying.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

Go with whatever you like. We're painters. Just exercise caution, vent as much and as often as you can and knock it outta the park! If you're using an hvlp you shouldn't have a boat load of overspray and bin will dry quick and dissipate quickly...its really up to you. 

"If all else fails, blame the drywallers."


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