# Alternative to the old Bleaching oil ?



## olepainter (Dec 31, 2013)

Hello Everyone, Wondering if anyone knows of a replacement product for the old bleaching oil [ Cabot's ] I believe its a new England topic. as they stop making the oil base bleaching oil. I'm considering a semi- transparent latex stain. I believe an oil base product will be obsolete in a few yrs. Any thoughts ? 
Thanks


----------



## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

olepainter said:


> Hello Everyone, Wondering if anyone knows of a replacement product for the old bleaching oil [ Cabot's ] I believe its a new England topic. as they stop making the oil base bleaching oil. I'm considering a semi- transparent latex stain. I believe an oil base product will be obsolete in a few yrs. Any thoughts ?
> Thanks


I was finishing a lot of Duratherm window pack interiors manufactured in New England/Maine. They were using the Bleaching Oil on their shop finished exteriors until switching to the following formula which they sent me:

60/40 mix of Cabot’s semi transparent deck & siding stain (Driftwood Gray)/Cabot’s Bleaching Stain

I recently saw some of their units that were placed into service in the fall of 2017 in an extreme oceanfront environment, the exteriors shop finished with the mix and formula provided. It held up really well..no mildew and great color retention. The color might have been a bit off but I didn’t have a reference for comparison. I also didn’t finish the exteriors so I can’t offer opinion on ease of application. It did look good though.


----------



## olepainter (Dec 31, 2013)

Thanks for recommendations, I'll look into that thanks. Just concerned about mildew, I have 2 houses on the ocean, another inland with a lot over protected areas, it has a bad mildew problem, that keeps coming back.


----------



## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

@olepainter
You might want to give Cabot’s a call to check for intermixing compatibly. Although it worked very well on the cypress window packs, I wasn’t too impressed with either products’ reviews which I read after responding to your post. I just don’t want to be putting out any bad advice.


----------



## olepainter (Dec 31, 2013)

Yes, I understand, cabots was a great product yrs. Ago, I guess they make a water base bleaching oil now, thanks for ur help, much appreciated


----------



## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

olepainter said:


> Yes, I understand, cabots was a great product yrs. Ago, I guess they make a water base bleaching oil now, thanks for ur help, much appreciated


The mix used was the new water based Cabot’s Bleaching Stain with the Cabot’s water based acrylic semi transparent, which I’m uncertain as to the compatibility of the two being intermixed. A young architect couple used it on their vertical cypress siding earlier this year after seeing it on the Duratherm windows and doors. I’d be interested in doing a follow up to see how it worked out. 

We used to use the older Bleaching Oil mixed with the Cabot’s silver-gray weathering stain which was a common standard for treating cedar shake years ago


----------



## olepainter (Dec 31, 2013)

Yes, I researched it, it is a water base products, I used to use the old combination of the bleaching oil & weathering stain also. I'm going to experiment on some old cedar shakes. Before doing the entire house in the spring.
Thanks for ur help, I'm in southern Maine, there are alot of houses with the old bleaching oil.


----------



## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

@Alchemy Redux Does ferrous sulfate mix into common linseed oil based stain?


----------



## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> @Alchemy Redux Does ferrous sulfate mix into common linseed oil based stain?


Where r u going with this?...

Although not current on the chemistry, it is a water soluble salt. I’m not sure if I’m saying this correctly, but one of the problems with ferrous sulfate used on exterior wood is that the iron tannate can be altered by acidic and basic solutions such as chlorine bleach or when ionic runoff comes into contact with high pH concrete walkways, stucco, and foundations, sometimes resulting in rust colored stains. Uric acid in bird droppings alters it as well similar to oxalic acid. The runoff on glass is another problem, the staining on the glass being difficult to remove.


----------



## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Alchemy Redux said:


> *Where r u going with this?.*..



just wondering if that's the active chemical in the 'bleaching' oil


----------



## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> just wondering if that's the active chemical in the 'bleaching' oil


I don’t know what the active ingredient is in Cabot’s Bleaching Oil or the Bleaching Stain either. It would be interesting to find out .


----------



## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> just wondering if that's the active chemical in the 'bleaching' oil


It’s probably a bleaching clay

https://pubs.usgs.gov/circ/1933/0003/report.pdf


----------



## Vinyl 54X (Mar 12, 2019)

Maybe Oxalic acid


----------



## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

Vinyl 54X said:


> Maybe Oxalic acid


Although I could be wrong, oxalic acid probably wouldn’t be it because it’s water soluble and would leach/wash right out. It would also degrade what little film the Bleaching Stain has, and would need to be listed on the SDS .

One distinguishing feature of the Bleaching Stain is the use of clay pigments where other stains don’t. The bleaching clays are used to de-color oils. Woods such as cedar have a high essential oil content and I’m thinking the clays de-color the oxidized essential oils resulting in a slow controlled bleaching. This is just a guess..not being familiar with the mechanisms.


----------



## Jake Clark (Aug 3, 2011)

olepainter said:


> Hello Everyone, Wondering if anyone knows of a replacement product for the old bleaching oil [ Cabot's ] I believe its a new England topic. as they stop making the oil base bleaching oil. I'm considering a semi- transparent latex stain. I believe an oil base product will be obsolete in a few yrs. Any thoughts ?
> Thanks


Hello everyone, this is Jake Clark with Armstrong-Clark. My team is trying to create a version of the old Cabot bleaching oil but we need some of the old stuff to measure performance against. Please let me know if you have some product we can have for our testing. If you are not familiar with Armstrong-Clark, we manufacture a high quality good old fashioned oil that is legal and compliant everywhere. We have many retailers asking us to formulate something similar to what you are looking for.


----------



## Respec (Sep 13, 2015)

I have used C2 Guard in their Atlantic Salt color as an alternative to bleaching oil. It is a bit pricey, but a real nice product. It is deep penetrating, easy to apply, and comes with a 10 year warranty. I had applied Cabot Bleaching oil to the woodwork of a screened porch for a customer I have. 3 years later it was covered in mold and algae. After washing it, there was nothing left. After that, I applied the C2 Guard, 2 wet on wet coats. Now almost 5 years later, it still looks great. I gave it a light cleaning last year (it basically was dirty), and it looked like we had just done it.


----------



## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Jake Clark said:


> Hello everyone, this is Jake Clark with Armstrong-Clark. My team is trying to create a version of the old Cabot bleaching oil but we need some of the old stuff to measure performance against. Please let me know if you have some product we can have for our testing. If you are not familiar with Armstrong-Clark, we manufacture a high quality good old fashioned oil that is legal and compliant everywhere. We have many retailers asking us to formulate something similar to what you are looking for.



Just wondering why y'all call your product 'old fashioned' when its a totally different oil chemistry than traditional linseed/tung oil products?


----------



## Jake Clark (Aug 3, 2011)

All we have done is replace the solvent with non-drying conditioning oils. We do not used modified or synthetic oils, and we do not incorporate water like so many of the oils on the market today. The result is still an “old fashioned” oil that is less than 50g/l VOC. If you want to try a sample send me a PM or preferably call me.


----------



## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Jake Clark said:


> All we have done is replace the solvent with non-drying conditioning oils. We do not used modified or synthetic oils, and we do not incorporate water like so many of the oils on the market today. The result is still an “old fashioned” oil that is less than 50g/l VOC. If you want to try a sample send me a PM or preferably call me.



I have had a couple samples sent to my store already, havn't had anyone really interested in trying a new product everyone here is stuck on sikkens, deckscapes and messmers unfortunately


----------



## Jake Clark (Aug 3, 2011)

If you haven’t already done so, please hand out the samples to your painters with the emphasis of being able to apply it in the direct sun and the heat of the day. BTW we offer free 4oz sample cans to our dealers. If you need more please let us know.


----------



## Mlink (Jan 11, 2020)

We used a 50/50 mixture of cabot weathering stain and bleaching oil on several waterfront exteriors years ago for a weathered driftwood effect. 
When it came time to redo the houses
I was having a hard time finding the weathering stain in my area..
After speaking with Cabot they told me the new way to achieve that desired look of the mixture is their Weathering Stain acrylic product.. I was reluctant at first but found the product worked very well and the customers liked it.


----------



## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Jake Clark said:


> If you haven’t already done so, please hand out the samples to your painters with the emphasis of being able to apply it in the direct sun and the heat of the day. BTW we offer free 4oz sample cans to our dealers. If you need more please let us know.


What exactly is your product, and what is its function? In other words, what is the ideal use for it? 
Any pics you can post, or other information?


----------



## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Holland said:


> What exactly is your product, and what is its function? In other words, what is the ideal use for it?
> Any pics you can post, or other information?


It's Armstrong Clark, it's a hybrid mineral (parrafin) oil + linseed oil stain. Main function is that it's very easy to use and recoat. There have been other posts on their product here before. As far as longentivity not sure I've heard mixed things.

The non drying component really turns me off and I have heard just like readyseal it's very difficult to fully remove.


----------



## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> It's Armstrong Clark, it's a hybrid mineral (parrafin) oil + linseed oil stain. Main function is that it's very easy to use and recoat. There have been other posts on their product here before. As far as longentivity not sure I've heard mixed things.
> 
> The non drying component really turns me off and I have heard just like readyseal it's very difficult to fully remove.


I’d like to hear more...
Why call it a bleaching oil? Doesn’t make sense.
I don’t object to >5% Paraffin on a deck, because it wears off by the time a deck is ready to be resealed. I generally like Linseed oil (like Cabot’s) except in high humidity/shaded areas as it tends to mildew, because it is a penetrating stain and therefore not prone to peeling. Decks require more maintenance than any other part of a house, so if it gets 3-4 years, it’s good in my book.

I find Sikkens to be a good product only if you never plan to change products. Impossible to remove, and nothing else will bond well to it. Definitely builds a hard film over time.


----------



## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Holland said:


> I’d like to hear more...
> Why call it a bleaching oil? Doesn’t make sense.
> I don’t object to >5% Paraffin on a deck, because it wears off by the time a deck is ready to be resealed. I generally like Linseed oil (like Cabot’s) except in high humidity/shaded areas as it tends to mildew, because it is a penetrating stain and therefore not prone to peeling. Decks require more maintenance than any other part of a house, so if it gets 3-4 years, it’s good in my book.
> 
> I find Sikkens to be a good product only if you never plan to change products. Impossible to remove, and nothing else will bond well to it. Definitely builds a hard film over time.



Sikkens/proluxe/cetol/ppg has multiple products. I like the SRD (original 550g/l voc) not the low VOC stuff its a penetrating linseed oil based product like your cabots. 123 I have seen massive failure and its about $100/gallon 3 coats. DEK and Log and siding... same issue I don't like seeing moisture sitting on top of film forming products. ONly thing I don't like about SRD is PPG discontinuing colors and I would bet they are going to discontinue the 550g/l and only have the low VOC product in the near future.



BM 326 is really a nice oil product but limited colors and only natural available in 5's.


armstrong clark... the only other similar product that I know of is readyseal. ready seal is 100% parrafin non drying oil. armstrong clark is a hybrid drying/non drying oil. Little to no thinners in these products.


----------



## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Sikkens/proluxe/cetol/ppg has multiple products. I like the SRD (original 550g/l voc) not the low VOC stuff its a penetrating linseed oil based product like your cabots. 123 I have seen massive failure and its about $100/gallon 3 coats. DEK and Log and siding... same issue I don't like seeing moisture sitting on top of film forming products. ONly thing I don't like about SRD is PPG discontinuing colors and I would bet they are going to discontinue the 550g/l and only have the low VOC product in the near future.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A little confusing since PPG bought out Sikkens and renaming everything- They seem to be discontinuing colors in L+S line also (proluxe?). I am moving away from decks because of the push for LOW VOC (everything) and industry transition to water-based only Deck Stains (a 100% guaranteed failure rate). 

I really like the Log and Siding for vertical surfaces- I think is unrivaled on Clear Vertical Cedar. Don't know what the long-term projection is. 

Sikkens decks stains (SRD?) seem to last a long time (as long as you don't make any changes) but always seems to absorbs uneven. That is my biggest complaint. There seems to be dull and shiny spots all over the place.

*I don't know what readyseal is, but I would use _any_ oil sealer (even a slow oil) over a water-based deck stain any day of the week.


----------



## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Holland said:


> A little confusing since PPG bought out Sikkens and renaming everything- They seem to be discontinuing colors in L+S line also (proluxe?). I am moving away from decks because of the push for LOW VOC (everything) and industry transition to water-based only Deck Stains (a 100% guaranteed failure rate).
> 
> I really like the Log and Siding for vertical surfaces- I think is unrivaled on Clear Vertical Cedar. Don't know what the long-term projection is.
> 
> ...



Readyseal and armstrong clark are probably the easiest stain products to use/ They are true oils and VOC compliant everywhere because there are little to no thinner in them.



Log and siding needs maintenance like any other product, cetol maintence ~$120/gallon. Once moisture gets under the coating its game over. Only cost effective way to re-stain that product is to media blast. And yes log and siding had some colors discontinued in particular natural light and western grey.


----------



## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Readyseal and armstrong clark are probably the easiest stain products to use/ They are true oils and VOC compliant everywhere because there are little to no thinner in them.
> 
> 
> 
> Log and siding needs maintenance like any other product, cetol maintence ~$120/gallon. Once moisture gets under the coating its game over. Only cost effective way to re-stain that product is to media blast. And yes log and siding had some colors discontinued in particular natural light and western grey.


The price doesn't scare me, because nothing else comes close to duplicating the look and feel of L+S. I agree that any film-forming stain is doomed on a deck.

I would posit that L+S is no worse than paint/primer when on siding, and may actually be better. One of the better options for fine wood siding!

I feel comfortable using L+S (even though a film-forming product that requires maintenance every few years) because, as it is intended for siding, water tends to run off these surfaces.

The two step approach is what seems to make it better...the first step seals, the second step bonds and gives it that beautiful finish (like you might see on a Frank Lloyd Wright house).

https://www.flickr.com/photos/blakewylie/338817155/


----------



## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Holland said:


> The price doesn't scare me, because nothing else comes close to duplicating the look and feel of L+S. I agree that any film-forming stain is doomed on a deck.
> 
> I would posit that L+S is no worse than paint/primer when on siding, and may actually be better. One of the better options for fine wood siding!
> 
> ...


Oh yeah L&S and 123 have a particular look to them.

The issue I have is the retail outlets, manufacturers, and applicators were selling these product as the end all solution to exterior log maintenance in that it would last 20+ years without recoating. Not only is that not true but you can't get many of them anymore since PPG changed all the products, colors and more than doubled the price from just 8 years ago. Wish they still had the alkyd solid deck stain, that stuff was bullet proof (still have a quite a few cans of various colors).


As far as sealing that's why I often spec benite or shipnshore even if the surface will get primed and painted.


----------



## Jake Clark (Aug 3, 2011)

Holland said:


> What exactly is your product, and what is its function? In other words, what is the ideal use for it?
> Any pics you can post, or other information?



Armstrong-Clark’s exterior wood stain is high quality traditional exterior oil stain that is legal and compliant in every city in the United States. Our stain line utilizes a single formula for all applications whether it is a deck, siding, or a fence. We do not use modified oils or water in our formula. Our secret lies in how our blended oils separate from each other after application. This unique aspect separates us from other low VOC or non-drying "compliant" oils in the market like Ready Seal. The importance of the non-drying oil is that it penetrates into the wood to nourish and rejuvenate wood fiber. Drying oils can only provide protection – they cannot “heal”. The drying oils in our formula sit on the surface to provide a natural looking color (not pastel) while providing a protective barrier (not a film) to lock in and protect the non-drying oils from the harmful effects of mother nature.

In addition to having superior color life and longevity to other “compliant” low VOC oils, it is very easy to use:
•	Can be applied to wood with up to 20% moisture content
•	Can be applied in 110 degree direct sun
•	No flashing, shiners, peeling or cracking
•	No stripping or sanding required on maintenance coats
•	Although it is a formulated to be a one coat product, when desired a second coat can be applied wet on wet or wet on dry for many applications
•	Can rain on the stain 60 minutes after absorption

Here is a link to our inspiration page with photos: https://www.armclark.com/inspiration.cfm

Please take note of the center photo in the first line. The applicators are walking in newly applied stain in direct sun on a hot day. This was done in a high end community overlooking San Francisco Bay where homeowner’s do not tolerate flaws in craftsmanship.


----------



## Jake Clark (Aug 3, 2011)

Holland said:


> I’d like to hear more...
> Why call it a bleaching oil? Doesn’t make sense.
> I don’t object to >5% Paraffin on a deck, because it wears off by the time a deck is ready to be resealed. I generally like Linseed oil (like Cabot’s) except in high humidity/shaded areas as it tends to mildew, because it is a penetrating stain and therefore not prone to peeling. Decks require more maintenance than any other part of a house, so if it gets 3-4 years, it’s good in my book.
> 
> I find Sikkens to be a good product only if you never plan to change products. Impossible to remove, and nothing else will bond well to it. Definitely builds a hard film over time.


Just to confirm - Cabot had a bleaching oil that was used to help accelerate the weathered look on new wood. We are getting a lot of calls asking us to formulate a version of it. We just need some of the original to do our testing.


----------



## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

@*Redux* @Jake Clark In furthering research I came across the patent from 1894 us patent 515191 samuel cabot:
COMPOUND FOR _BLEACHING_ AND PRESERVING WOOD
https://pdfpiw.uspto.gov/.piw?Docid=00515191&idkey=NONE&homeurl=http%3A%252F%252Fpatft.uspto.gov%252Fnetahtml%252FPTO%252Fpatimg.htm


"..A composition for bleaching and preserving wood consisting of chlorinated lime, creosote oil, zinc white, linseed oil and water.."


70 parts - creosote oil
50 parts - water
30 parts - zinc white
15 parts - linseed oil
10 parts - chlorinated lime


----------



## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> @*Redux* @Jake Clark In furthering research I came across the patent from 1894 us patent 515191 samuel cabot:
> COMPOUND FOR _BLEACHING_ AND PRESERVING WOOD
> https://pdfpiw.uspto.gov/.piw?Docid=00515191&idkey=NONE&homeurl=http%3A%252F%252Fpatft.uspto.gov%252Fnetahtml%252FPTO%252Fpatimg.htm
> 
> ...


Try skull & bone bleach...
The Bleaching Oil contains magnesium carbonate which is used by taxidermists for bleaching skulls...thinking it might be the active bleaching ingredient..


----------



## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Redux said:


> Try skull & bone bleach...
> The Bleaching Oil contains magnesium carbonate which is used by taxidermists for bleaching skulls...thinking it might be the active bleaching ingredient..



interestingly magnesium carbonate (BMC in the photo) also seems to act as a fire retardant. The bleach effect is nice!
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5453080/


----------

