# Varnish restoration



## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

I have a job coming up real soon for a long time client that want's me to refurbish/ revarnish her old cabs (house is WW1 vintage arts and crafts- pretty cool) 
The original cabs were stripped and then varnished maple- maybe about 25 years ago. Losts of wear and tear since then.
My best guess is to clean really well, sand, maybe use 2 part wood bleach, somehow color the bare spots/ stains that wouldn't come out ( amber shellac?) use slightly tinted poly ( zar) to even out.

Any other thoughts - suggestions?


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## timhag (Sep 30, 2007)

BrushJockey said:


> I have a job coming up real soon for a long time client that want's me to refurbish/ revarnish her old cabs (house is WW1 vintage arts and crafts- pretty cool)
> The original cabs were stripped and then varnished maple- maybe about 25 years ago. Losts of wear and tear since then.
> My best guess is to clean really well, sand, maybe use 2 part wood bleach, somehow color the bare spots/ stains that wouldn't come out ( amber shellac?) use slightly tinted poly ( zar) to even out.
> 
> Any other thoughts - suggestions?


 From what you typed, i am not understanding if you are completely removing everything to bare wood. I would strip it all and start from there.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

well it looks like that finish should come off easy, pretty worn. Was that what you were thinking? Looks like a light coat on there.


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

This is one of the worst ( below sink) most just are worn around latch and handled edge. I am not planning on a complete strip. It is a whole kitchen of these, just to doctor up and recoat. 
Main problem is getting the staining out.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Those two at least will need to be stripped. You will spend more time trying to work around that than sanding it down to bare wood will take.


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## timhag (Sep 30, 2007)

BrushJockey said:


> This is one of the worst ( below sink) most just are worn around latch and handled edge. I am not planning on a complete strip. It is a whole kitchen of these, just to doctor up and recoat.
> Main problem is getting the staining out.


Trying to match is going to be a big issue. I wouldn't touch if not stripping completely. But, thats just me. Good luck brother! If touching up, I wouldn't put my name on the job.


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## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

I do several refurbs a year on kitchen cabinets. Strip them all and then put a new finish on. Remove the doors, make sure you number them, I use straight lacquer thinner to remove existing finish, keep the surface wet for a couple minutes and scrape off the finish. You may have to do this twice, then sand and refinish. It is labor intensive so charge right or you will lose your as-!


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

Go to a cabinet supply shop and pick up some of their coloured felt markers - they make them for this exact purpose (touching up worn stain areas). Much easier than trying to actually restain to match or tone to match.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Im thinking... use a palm sander to strip those few styles, you might find a good portion of that black will come out. I would probably use some 400g paper on a palm sander for everything else and I wouldn't hesitate in burning up as much finish as I can. Mix a penetrating stain like MinWax to a honey maple color and wipe it over the bare areas to get something close or dead-on depending on what everything else looks like.

I would think you will have a few areas that need more attention to color blend but after you fill in the blanks then maybe apply a light toner coat to the whole kitchen, then clear it.


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## Roadog (Apr 18, 2007)

Are they varnished or is it shellac?


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

Thanks all- I'm picking up that door in the pic tonight to experiment on. 
Road- I am pretty sure they are varnished, and where it is still good ( which is a lot of it) it is at least a semi in sheen.Bummer, would help to tone that down. But the color really reminds me of amber shellac. 

just thought of something- will old shellac still soften with Alc? I'll def test this door for that. 

I haven't heard of the felt markers- might do a little investigation. 
I'm not as worried about getting the color up ( might be a bit naive.. but I impress myself sometimes!) as I am getting the stain out. It's not so hard to add color, but making something that is clear lighter is damn near impossible.

Keep the suggs coming, I am considering them- except I know I'm not stripping the whole kitchen. The client has already had expectations made "realistic" -


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## Roadog (Apr 18, 2007)

Thats kind of where I was headed. If it is shellac, which is considered a varnish even though not oil, and could have been called that to the HO 25 years ago, it will still open with denatured alcohol. I have great success tinting shellac and color matching or just doing a toning. I use Transtint dyes.
http://www.woodcraft.com/Family/2001718/TransTint-Dyes.aspx


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

BrushJockey said:


> I haven't heard of the felt markers- might do a little investigation. -


I bought this kit from these guys a few years ago. Some of the best products for touching up furniture/woodwork around.......

http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/...toolshop&Product_Code=BH-FDTUP&CategoryID=146


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## timhag (Sep 30, 2007)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> I bought this kit from these guys a few years ago. Some of the best products for touching up furniture/woodwork around.......
> 
> http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/...toolshop&Product_Code=BH-FDTUP&CategoryID=146


Not conducive for this job.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

timhag said:


> Not conducive for this job.


Agree 100%. But he was asking about the markers. Thought it might help for another project.....


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## timhag (Sep 30, 2007)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Agree 100%. But he was asking about the markers. Thought it might help for another project.....


True dat Scmidty! :thumbsup:


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## timhag (Sep 30, 2007)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Agree 100%. But he was asking about the markers. Thought it might help for another project.....


Never know brother, some may think they could get away with using markers for a job like this.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Guess your right. It never occurred to me...... :thumbsup:


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

timhag said:


> Never know brother, some may think they could get away with using markers for a job like this.


why not... people produce nice finishes with crayon.. right?


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## timhag (Sep 30, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> why not... people produce nice finishes with crayon.. right?


That would only be on raised grain sh*t doors brother Jack. :thumbsup:


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

Back from door retrieval - gave it the denatured test and it passed- def shellac finish. Which makes finish removal a snap. Also worked on the client understanding that it will look "old and loved" as apposed to old and abused. 
Will have to finish with a regular varnish that is as glossy as shellac is. 
things are looking up though. Thanks to all who chimed in.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

BrushJockey said:


> Back from door retrieval - gave it the denatured test and it passed- def shellac finish. Which makes finish removal a snap. Also worked on the client understanding that it will look "old and loved" as apposed to old and abused.
> Will have to finish with a regular varnish that is as glossy as shellac is.
> things are looking up though. Thanks to all who chimed in.


Can always mix 50% semi/50% satin to get that certain 'gloss' you want or some ratio.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

I've been following this thread to see what ideas were going to come up. Just about all trim finishes from that era, and up through the early 60's were shellac based finishes. As said, a quick wipe with denatured alcohol will determine if shellac was used. The nice thing about shellac is that it is probably one of the easiest tinted finishes. Most of the time, repeated coats of an amber shellac will match old trim. The tough part of using shellac is the fast dry time when brushing, which is why most of the old-timers applied it with cheese cloth, (no joke). You just have to "cut" it to the right consistency. I've done numerous resto jobs using shellac and have always kept a quart of Bullseye clear and amber handy.


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

My plan now^. But I'm going to top it with something sturdier after colored up- Don't want to have to apply a full coat of universal shellac, so will probably go with a reg varnish. Although I'm investigating a waterborn that floor guys use. Have to see if there are compatibility issues.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Since you mentioned "universal shellac" I am guessing you are referring to dewaxed shellac. Regular shellac including the Bullseye shellacs have wax on them that can cause adhesion problems if another finish is used over top of it. If this is a sometimes or always problem I do not know, but it might be a good idea to apply a dewaxed shellac if you are switch finishes as a base coat (Zinsser SealCoat is dewaxed).


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

On pine/oak. I dont have a photo of the amber.


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

Regular varnish ( not poly) will work over reg shellac, to my understanding. The problem of compatibility is with Urethane.


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## IHATE_HOMEDEPOT (May 27, 2008)

If they are really that old I would think that they would not be vaneer so you will be able to sand as much as necessary. I have sanded through vaneer and it sucks, looks real bad.

There used to be a shop by my house that had a huge tank filled with paint stripper, the dude could stick a whole chair in there. It was a furniture restoration shop.


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## Metro M & L (Jul 21, 2009)

jack pauhl said:


> On pine/oak. I dont have a photo of the amber.


That guys got a thermometer/humidty gauge in the picture. I usually just check if my b^LLs are sweaty.


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