# Floating behind a toilet



## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

Does anyone know of a tool that you can float behind a toilet with?
There's barely enough room to squeeze my 6" broadknife and get to it all from each side but it's time consuming and I have to sand afterwards.
Some times it leaves that square back there and sanding it down is annoying.
It's still better than removing the toilet but...

It's usually a little over an inch so I can slip wallpaper behind it and smooth it down with a yardstick.

But if y'all know something I don't, I'd appreciate it.


:cowboy:


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Underdog said:


> Does anyone know of a tool that you can float behind a toilet with?
> There's barely enough room to squeeze my 6" broadknife and get to it all from each side but it's time consuming and I have to sand afterwards.
> Some times it leaves that square back there and sanding it down is annoying.
> It's still better than removing the toilet but...
> ...


That's one of the best straight lines this bunch has been handed in quite awhile. Hope you're ready. :yes:


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

RH said:


> That's one of the best straight lines this bunch has been handed in quite awhile. Hope you're ready. :yes:


I didn't want to be the first to mention it.....


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## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

RH said:


> That's one of the best straight lines this bunch has been handed in quite awhile. Hope you're ready. :yes:


Well then I better beat 'em to the punch...






:cowboy:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

I'll play it straight, but I'm giggling on the inside.

Why need you float that? Hang the paper and who's ever going to notice the wall ain't perfect?


OR, can you use a METAL yardstick the same way you smooth the paper ? (I am assuming you're using a wood one)

BTW, someone once gave me a great hint for smoothing the paper behind the tank - a weenie roller, and if it is SOOO narrow the roller won't fit, take the cover off and use just the frame. 

And how do you trim paper behind a radiator or other places you have no chance of squeezing your hand behind (there a set up line) ? Tape a blade to that yardstick.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

daArch said:


> Tape a blade to that yardstick.


Or a smoothie. :yes:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Or a smoothie. :yes:


 like this one?










I'll remember that. But usually I need a longer reach for those damn steam radiators.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

daArch said:


> I'll play it straight, but I'm giggling on the inside.
> 
> Why need you float that? Hang the paper and who's ever going to notice the wall ain't perfect?
> 
> ...


Just a word of advice to you younger guys - be careful of when you try to use your weenie roller without the cover on. It could cause you a world of problems using it that way.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

RH said:


> Just a word of advice to you younger guys - be careful of when you try to use your weenie roller without the cover on. It could cause you a world of problems using it that way.


 are you talking in parables ?


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## modernfinish (Mar 20, 2013)

I take the tank off ... 2 bolts.


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## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

RH said:


> Just a word of advice to you younger guys - be careful of when you try to use your weenie roller without the cover on. It could cause you a world of problems using it that way.


You guys are too much


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

modernfinish said:


> I take the tank off ... 2 bolts.



Many folks do that, until they run into one where some seal or gasket don't quite work again. And then they find out their insurance doesn't cover playing plumber without a license. 

Risky business with old toilets and supply lines.

Sure, I'll do it in my own home, but not in Mrs Snootbottom's 1910 estate.


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## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

daArch said:


> Why need you float that? Hang the paper and who's ever going to notice the wall ain't perfect?


You haven't met my designers :hammer:



daArch said:


> OR, can you use a METAL yardstick the same way you smooth the paper ? (I am assuming you're using a wood one)


After two serious cuts, one requiring stitches on the tip of my finger, I use metal now.
I haven't tried it, thought it would be really messy. Might try it.



daArch said:


> BTW, someone once gave me a great hint for smoothing the paper behind the tank - a weenie roller, and if it is SOOO narrow the roller won't fit, take the cover off and use just the frame.


Oh yeah those foam thingies... I'll try that.



daArch said:


> And how do you trim paper behind a radiator or other places you have no chance of squeezing your hand behind (there a set up line) ? Tape a blade to that yardstick.


Radiator? lol (Texas... central air)

Can't get leverage with that behind a toilet.



Schmidt & Co. said:


> Or a smoothie. :yes:


Again, I can't quite see it logistically but I'll have plenty of chances to experiment.





modernfinish said:


> I take the tank off ... 2 bolts.


I have so much bad luck with that. The house I'm working on has been so poorly maintained that whenever I jostle anything it is so brittle or old it breaks. The hall bath there, as we speak has a towel and bowl on the floor behind the toilet until I can fix it. I can do it if I'm willing to make a couple of trips to the Home Depot


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## modernfinish (Mar 20, 2013)

daArch said:


> Many folks do that, until they run into one where some seal or gasket don't quite work again. And then they find out their insurance doesn't cover playing plumber without a license.
> 
> Risky business with old toilets and supply lines.
> 
> Sure, I'll do it in my own home, but not in Mrs Snootbottom's 1910 estate.


Yeah I guess I didn't think about doing 103 year old outhouses


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

UD,

You've seen the smoothers cut from the side of a five? 

Maybe a longer one like that could work to float the mud. The curve (convex TO the wall) may be just the ticket to smooth out the mud. 

never tried it, just trying to brainstorm


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## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

daArch said:


> like this one?


No, no, no... I'm sure he meant this:




:cowboy:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

I hope those have rum or tequila in them


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## modernfinish (Mar 20, 2013)

Or take off toilet ,new wax ring . Done


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## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

daArch said:


> UD,
> 
> You've seen the smoothers cut from the side of a five?
> 
> ...


No I never have. Hard to picture with such a curve.

That reminds me, I HATE  HATE :furious: HATE :cursing: the new black 5 gallon buckets for adhesive. Had to start carrying around a hammer just for getting the lid back on.


:cowboy:


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## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

modernfinish said:


> Or take off toilet ,new wax ring . Done


 
Never ocurred to me. No real chance for leaking that way right?
Except for when they tile it to the floor.
It seems like I had a reason for not liking to do that years ago and never revisited it.
Floor damage? Caulked to the floor?
Something...


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Underdog said:


> No I never have. Hard to picture with such a curve.
> 
> That reminds me, I HATE  HATE :furious: HATE :cursing: the new black 5 gallon buckets for adhesive. Had to start carrying around a hammer just for getting the lid back on.
> 
> ...


wait until the handle breaks.

Put a nice dent in MY kitchen floor, I guess I'm happy it didn't happen on a job.

Jerry Russo has been alerted. He asked me to send him the handle. Hopefully Roman will get the manufacturer to fix the problem. 

Others are saying that the new "enviro bucket" doesn't seal air out and now paste is not lasting two weeks once opened. 

You're in luck. I DO have a pict of the bucket side smoother. It's the one on the left:









do you understand now about the curve of it?


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## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

daArch said:


> wait until the handle breaks.
> 
> Put a nice dent in MY kitchen floor, I guess I'm happy it didn't happen on a job.
> 
> ...


Hate it when that happens.

Fortunately I don't usually have paste long enough to spoil but I sure can imagine it would.


I *LIKE* the possibility of that cut out. I assume it's wide enough to reach both sides of the toilet. Seems like it give good leverage. Then just hose it down.
Now I need a dang saw.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Underdog said:


> I *LIKE* the possibility of that cut out. I assume it's wide enough to reach both sides of the toilet. Seems like it give good leverage. Then just hose it down.
> Now I need a dang saw.



the one in the picture is NOT long enough, but I think a bucket will allow you to cut one 11" long. which may not be long enough, but I am sure you could figure out a way to attach it to a handle or even do half the tank wall at a time. 

In tjis profession, if you can't invent and make your own tools, you're screwed.

OR, you tell the decorator, "if the wall behind the tank needs to be perfect, the tank needs to be removed. I can remove it, but I am not a trained or licensed plumber and my insurance won't cover me if I put it back on and any leak happens for any reason."


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## modernfinish (Mar 20, 2013)

You'll spend half the night cutting that five, I'm sorry if I offended you ? Seemed kinda testy in your response . I've had many a seam land behind / around a stupid toilet

and that's hard enough but you asked how to skim mud behind it to boot ?with a picky designer? Only way to do it right is to take it off , any other way is half arsen it. Use 

a 14inch broad knife will reach most of it but there will be that little bit left or a drywall knockdown blade but ive tried those with little success .I've had that situation more 

times than I'd like to , that's the single reason I charge double if not triple for powder rooms.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

modernfinish said:


> You'll spend half the night cutting that five,


Actually your time estimate is a tad off.

true, if you try it with a hand coping saw, it may. 

But even with a sawzall and a table saw, about 15 minutes to knock out six of them. 

Band saw even less time.

Many hangers use these as their primary sweeps.


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## modernfinish (Mar 20, 2013)

daArch said:


> Actually your time estimate is way off.
> 
> true, if you try it with a hand coping saw, it may.
> 
> ...


Agreed ,I like more sturdy plastic though , i like that luxon plastic you got w the wood handle in yr pic Thats my main piece along w a brush smoother .

At Walmart in the arts and crafts section they have a plastic square made of luxan measurements already on it . Its used to measure fabric? 

Cut it to favorite size round the edges for like 4 bucks.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

And yes, modern, taking the tank off is the best way to patch, and even to hang, behind the tank.

But as I said, and must emphasize, if you are not a licensed plumber, you run an incredibly high risk of paying (out of pocket) for ANY water damage that happens even if NOT your fault. And we all know about old connections.

You could be done and gone for a week, and some plus sized person sits down and jiggles something loose and a drip, or a stream goes unnoticed for a day or so. When the insurance company assesses the damage, the HO says, "why yes, the paperhanger took the tank off and put it back"

If you need to have the tank removed, call a plumber. Plumbing is NOT a hobby.


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## modernfinish (Mar 20, 2013)

I see where you are coming from , I been fortunate to not have that happen . No building in Las Vegas or home is pre 1970. And I respect the work you do , you seem to be 

super knowledgeable at our trade. I am comfortable taking off toilet just recaulk it ,it looks better usually anyways I do it all the time though . It's most efficient to me and 

Most times that situation is in a commercial setting hotel room . So I don't think twice about it.


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## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

modernfinish said:


> You'll spend half the night cutting that five, I'm sorry if I offended you ? Seemed kinda testy in your response . I've had many a seam land behind / around a stupid toilet


 
Ha... I fugured out how it semed snarky. I was free associating in my thinking and that's how it came out.


Actually with you and this:




daArch said:


> OR, you tell the decorator, "if the wall behind the tank needs to be perfect, the tank needs to be removed. I can remove it, but I am not a trained or licensed plumber and my insurance won't cover me if I put it back on and any leak happens for any reason."


I think I know what I might do for now.

Thank y'all so much for your advice!!

:cowboy:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

modern,

I didn't realize you were mostly commercial. Different animal fer sure.

I have not used that lexan smoother. It is not appropriate for the delicate residential goods I install. However, next week I have a hallway with some Osborne & Little type II vinyl. I may try it once more. If I don't like it, I may be asking for your address and send it to someone who will use it :thumbsup:


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Underdog said:


> Does anyone know of a tool that you can float behind a toilet with?
> There's barely enough room to squeeze my 6" broadknife and get to it all from each side but it's time consuming and I have to sand afterwards.
> Some times it leaves that square back there and sanding it down is annoying.
> It's still better than removing the toilet but...
> ...


Floating ln the toilet is easier.less strain.


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## modernfinish (Mar 20, 2013)

Yeah I got delicate stuff I must deal with daily , we have this bath material w paper back hand painted silk butterfly's $170 yard ! $4k in material alone in each powder room .. Its in the fancy suites its a showoff kinda thing , its dumb to have that in a bathroom .I use a wall whiz plastic gently . So I get my fair share of delicates . During the mornings I'm maintenance at a 5 star Hotel , so I get all kinds of challenges to fix. Btw the silk i can't change just one sheet gotta replace whole room cause of the dye match . Also we got this paper back lacquer face one chance to set it so very fragile , it's in the hallways. That's even worse. I cringe when I see a gouge .


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

modernfinish said:


> Yeah I got delicate stuff I must deal with daily , we have this bath material w paper back hand painted silk butterfly's $170 yard ! $4k in material alone in each powder room .. Its in the fancy suites its a showoff kinda thing , its dumb to have that in a bathroom .I use a wall whiz plastic gently . So I get my fair share of delicates . During the mornings I'm maintenance at a 5 star Hotel , so I get all kinds of challenges to fix. Btw the silk i can't change just one sheet gotta replace whole room cause of the dye match . Also we got this paper back lacquer face one chance to set it so very fragile , it's in the hallways. That's even worse. I cringe when I see a gouge .


sounds a bit like a Fromental. (I got a doozy of a Fromental story - but that story is not for "public" consumption)

WHY people put silks in a bath is beyond me. 

I assume you are lining the walls first as with most silks ?


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

This thread should get an overflow of responses!:whistling2:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

mudbone said:


> This thread should get an overflow of responses!:whistling2:


I'm flush out of replies myself


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## modernfinish (Mar 20, 2013)

This thread went down the drain


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## modernfinish (Mar 20, 2013)

daArch said:


> sounds a bit like a Fromental. (I got a doozy of a Fromental story - but that story is not for "public" consumption)
> 
> WHY people put silks in a bath is beyond me.
> 
> I assume you are lining the walls first as with most silks ?


Yes level 5 skim coat, Gardz then blank stock .


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

modernfinish said:


> Yes level 5 skim coat, Gardz then blank stock .


Sometimes, a super clean install is a nice change after some sloppy pre-pasteds. 

I once had a custom deGourney to do in a tiny powder - it was a two person install because the 7'6" strips could not be booked. It was almost comical getting two hangers, a stubby, tools, and the material into that tiny area. Luckily my "helper" was a smallish female with top notch credentials.


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

I saw floating behind a toilet and i thought someone had kind of a hard night of it, ifyouknowwhatimeanandimsureyoudo.


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

After all this you could have pulled the tank, floated it, sanded it, caulked it, painted it, papered it, bathed it, shaved it, and hung it out to dry. And got the tank back on and paid. Knowwhatimean?


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

ProWallGuy said:


> After all this you could have pulled the tank, floated it, sanded it, caulked it, painted it, papered it, bathed it, shaved it, and hung it out to dry. And got the tank back on and paid. Knowwhatimean?


Lets discuss how you would have done that.


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

I just told you.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Do some of you actually believe that people ask questions here on PT to actually learn the resolution to a problem?

RIGHT ! ! ! ! !


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## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

BrushJockey said:


> I saw floating behind a toilet and i thought someone had kind of a hard night of it, ifyouknowwhatimeanandimsureyoudo.


 
This is a constant [something] in my craw...
I want to figure out the best solution



daArch said:


> Do some of you actually believe that people ask questions here on PT to actually learn the resolution to a problem?
> 
> RIGHT ! ! ! ! !


I SAID... I want to figure out the best solution, and I meant it. :yes:

Guess what happened this morning.
I went back to fix the slow leak and the toilet was so out of date that Home Depot and Lowe's don't stock the hardware that goes to it. The screw is 1/4" #20 thread and they don't provide them in brass.
American Standard no less.
The home owner had been talking about his plumber. I thought he'd attach it for me on one of his trips no big whoop. The bowl rocked back and forth anyway. Turns out it wasn't his plumber it was his tile guy.
When I didn't fix it in two attempts because I didn't have the bolts I needed and tried unsuccessfully to make do,the owner wanted to replace it at my cost. He thought that made sense. He thought replacing the hardware and gasket and washers was asking for trouble. He thinks his toilet is 5 years old. I dispute this estimate. Either way, he says I broke it I buy it.  I guess he believes he should have used it for however long for free.

I'm going to a plumbing supply store tomorrow to get what I need.

40 years in the business and I have never had a customer do that to me.
Here's a few things I had done for him on this job:
I was told after I started that the baseboard comes out. The tile had been laid after the base and I had to chisel it out which I did with with no argument. (lucky I didn't know if I damage the floor I'd have to replace it new) 
I patched a hole in the sheetrock in their hallway as a courtesy.
There were major holes that weren't there when I did the estimate... I fixed with no complaint. 

I can't even tell you the details of our conversation without it sounding like fiction.


Usually my cowboy smilie would be here but in honor of what I have to do tomorrow...


:boxing:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Underdog said:


> I SAID... I want to figure out the best solution, and I meant it. :yes:


I know that, I was sarcasing (new word: _*to be sarcastic towards*_) those complaining about the thread


> Guess what happened this morning........<big snip>


that'll teach you :whistling2:

no good deed goes unpunished.

And thus I still stand behind my advice about not playing plumber. :thumbsup:

OH, good luck, hope it gets all resolved


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## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

daArch said:


> that'll teach you :whistling2:
> 
> no good deed goes unpunished.
> 
> ...


Plumbing supply stores don't open on Saturday. Plumbers must not need supplies on Saturday. Plumbers must not work on Saturday. Plumbers have it made. Plumbers suck. :detective:


:cowboy:


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

You can get a new toilet for $100. Upsell replacing it.. Or just replace it and be done, or you can make a half dozen trips to the store and spend a day on it and have $300 in the old one.


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## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

straight_lines said:


> You can get a new toilet for $100. Upsell replacing it.. Or just replace it and be done, or you can make a half dozen trips to the store and spend a day on it and have $300 in the old one.


On principle I have to say no. It's been a while since I've so openly been lied to and manipulated.
This is what he says is 5 years old:




It's my responsibility to make it seal since I didn't have an agreement up front and I will.

Sometimes I would be in the mood to agree with you but this is one of those lines drawn in the sand/hills I'd die on. :tank:


:cowboy:


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## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

daArch said:


> I know that, I was sarcasing (new word: _*to be sarcastic towards*_) those complaining about the thread


Oh... I thought I'd responded to this.

I've been practicing with smilies because of my dry humor. I'm terrible at text and now I guess I'm terrible at smilies. :donatello:


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