# Cherry Staircase Help



## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

I am doing a Cherry Staircase from H*ll,
The HO, who I have done a ton of work for put Spar urethane on his Cherry interior staircase without sanding. 
Sanded off the poly and started to apply Zar Ultra Max, and some of old poly started turning white. Stopped using the Zar.
Sanded some more to the point that there was a nice even color. There were a few spots were it appeared that I went down to wood, so we applied a Cherry zar oil stain, which the home owner told me was the stain used on the stairs originally. They were stained over 20 years ago, so not sure it this is actually true. Before the new poly when on I cleaned the stairs with denatured alcohol. There were blotchy areas all over the stairs.
So, It seems that the areas that look blotchy do not have any stain on them, so I sand down the areas and apply some of the stain, and apply poly, It takes four coats to get an even appearance with the sheen of the poly,
But, the stairs still look like crap. So no the HO has decided that the stairs need to be stripped and brought down to bare wood and then Cherry stain. What is the best way to get the poly and, more importantly, the stain off. Should I use Oxalic Acid to get rid of the stain, or should I just sand? I have use Oxalic Acid once, but it was on an old chair outside. This will be in a very expensive home.

P.S. I am truly dumbfounded on why the stairs look this way. I was extremely careful to always keep my sander, I used my Festool DTS 400, sander flat...not put it on the edge, to avoid any issues with the stain being removed.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

Furniture stripper, scrape clean, methyl hydrate wash, sand, maybe Oxylic acid wash to even out the wood, then stain


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Pete - Doing this stuff can always be a crap shoot. No matter how much you think you got off, there still seems to be a possibility that there is remaining residue in the wood which will prevent the even absorption of the new stain. Plus, cherry can be a notoriously difficult wood to work with. I had a major finishing job on a bunch of new cherry hand rails and balusters last year and they were a real PITA.

Don't know if you are interested, or would actually care to experiment on this particular project, but I have had great success with applying tinted Sansin Clear on prestained wood to achieve a more even finish. And some of the stuff I started with was in real bad shape. I just laid out my process today in my thread entitled, "Cabinet Refinishing Process", if you are interested. Warning, get yourself settled in and comfortable (food, beverages, toilet paper, etc) before you start reading - it's long.

Note, as a top coat over the tinted Sansin, I used the Emetch Pre-Catalyzed Waterborne Conversion Varnish, which worked great for the cabinets I was doing. However, not sure if it would be the best choice for the treads and risers on stairs. It might be just fine - I just don't know, but have to think a floor grade waterborne clear would work fine as a substitute.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

RH said:


> Pete - Doing this stuff can always be a crap shoot. No matter how much you think you got off, there still seems to be a possibility that there is remaining residue in the wood which will prevent the even absorption of the new stain. Plus, cherry can be a notoriously difficult wood to work with. I had a major finishing job on a bunch of new cherry hand rails and balusters last year and they were a real PITA.
> 
> Don't know if you are interested, or would actually care to experiment on this particular project, but I have had great success with applying tinted Sansin Clear on prestained wood to achieve a more even finish. And some of the stuff I started with was in real bad shape. I just laid out my process today in my thread entitled, "Cabinet Refinishing Process", if you are interested. Warning, get yourself settled in and comfortable (food, beverages, toilet paper, etc) before you start reading - it's long.
> 
> Note, as a top coat over the tinted Sansin, I used the Emetch Pre-Catalyzed Waterborne Conversion Varnish, which worked great for the cabinets I was doing. However, not sure if it would be the best choice for the treads and risers on stairs. It might be just fine - I just don't know, but have to think a floor grade waterborne clear would work fine as a substitute.


RH can you give me the link to the thread. I did a search and it did not show up.


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

Pete,

Click on Quick Links, then on today's posts. It is about a third of the way down the list of today's posts.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

SemiproJohn said:


> Pete,
> 
> Click on Quick Links, then on today's posts. It is about a third of the way down the list of today's posts.


I did find it and sent an email link to myself.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

journeymanPainter said:


> Furniture stripper, scrape clean, methyl hydrate wash, sand, maybe Oxylic acid wash to even out the wood, then stain


Pete, just so you know, in English, methyl hydrate is called Methanol or Methyl Alcohol.
:whistling2:


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

Gough said:


> Pete, just so you know, in English, methyl hydrate is called Methanol or Methyl Alcohol.
> :whistling2:


And denatured alcohol


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Gough said:


> Pete, just so you know, in English, methyl hydrate is called Methanol or Methyl Alcohol.
> :whistling2:


Yeah, when guys start communicating in Canadian, it can really get confusing.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

journeymanPainter said:


> And denatured alcohol


Deja vu.

No, methyl hydrate=methanol

Methylated spririts=denatured alcohol (ethanol to which a denaturant has been added to avoid liquor tax).

To confuse the issue, a small amount of methanol is sometimes what is added to ethanol as the denaturant.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

journeymanPainter said:


> And denatured alcohol


I did look it up quickly, but figured I would have found out what it is later. I am sure I would have gotten some strange looks at my paint store.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

RH said:


> Yeah, when guys start communicating in Canadian, it can really get confusing.


Eh?


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

I would recommend a product called Bix stripper. It is the only one I have ever seen that does a good job of taking stain out of wood. I haven't seen it in years so it may not be around any more. Or am I being irreverent again?


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

PACman said:


> I would recommend a product called Bix stripper. It is the only one I have ever seen that does a good job of taking stain out of wood. I haven't seen it in years so it may not be around any more. Or am I being irreverent again?


If it worked well then it has probably been outlawed.


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## radio11 (Aug 14, 2015)

RH said:


> Yeah, when guys start communicating in Canadian, it can really get confusing.




It's similar to English, but not quite. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

RH said:


> If it worked well then it has probably been outlawed.


Their website says Home Depot sells it.
http://www.wmbarr.com/bix/default.aspx


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

Hard to tell from a photo, not sure what I'm looking at. Would a scuff sand, stain whipe, and toning work?

Not sure of you have spray equipment or not. Would be the only method that would work


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

woodcoyote said:


> Hard to tell from a photo, not sure what I'm looking at. Would a scuff sand, stain whipe, and toning work?
> 
> Not sure of you have spray equipment or not. Would be the only method that would work


The areas that I had to do touch ups after I sanded are not the same color as the original stain.
One of the touch ups looks like a backwards capital L.


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

Pete the Painter said:


> The areas that I had to do touch ups after I sanded are not the same color as the original stain.
> One of the touch ups looks like a backwards capital L.


Would it be possible to take a tread off or something removable so you could get a color match? If you need oil you can get a match done in oil. 

Might be less work than stripping the whole thing, sanding, cleaning, etc. 

Just a thought.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

woodcoyote said:


> Would it be possible to take a tread off or something removable so you could get a color match? If you need oil you can get a match done in oil.
> 
> Might be less work than stripping the whole thing, sanding, cleaning, etc.
> 
> Just a thought.


We tried that today. For some reason the HO had me put 2 coats on which did not work. I and he wife convinced him tha we need to try again with one coat. A total strip, which I have no desire to do, is going to be the last resort. I was under the impression that he wanted this done, but we are going to try matching first.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Pete, sounds like you are getting into a complex and unenviable situation with the two HO's giving you their input on how this project should be done.

Unless you feel that a full strip and redo will _guarantee_ you and the HOs the results you are after, perhaps it might be wise to suggest bringing in a professional floor refinisher for the actual treads and risers. 

It's all well and good to try new things and to branch out with your skill sets but maybe the stairs in a "very expensive home" isn't the right time and place to try and learn. Baby steps as they say. 

If you do bring in a pro, maybe you can ask to observe how completes the work - for future reference.

Just a thought.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

RH said:


> If you do bring in a pro, maybe you can ask to observe how completes the work - for future reference.


That might not go over so well. I still remember several years ago when I was cutting in some baseboard and I got that sense someone was literally hovering right over my shoulder. Turned around to see my customers mug literally 6 inches away from my right ear.

He said "I want to watch you paint" (insert very thick British accent). I stopped and stared at him until he walked away.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Wildbill7145 said:


> That might not go over so well. I still remember several years ago when I was cutting in some baseboard and I got that sense someone was literally hovering right over my shoulder. Turned around to see my customers mug literally 6 inches away from my right ear.
> 
> He said "I want to watch you paint" (insert very thick British accent). I stopped and stared at him until he walked away.


LOL, yeah maybe not. Guess it's the teacher in me but whenever someone in the trades has wanted to watch and learn how I am doing something, or what products I am using with success, I am more than happy to share. But not everyone feels that way. In Pete's case, guess there's nothing to lose by asking.

Of course it's a whole different matter if it's a customer wanting to watch. That fricken' drives me crazy. Even worse, the customers who at the bid ask a ton of questions about how you will go about doing their job and what you would be using, and then you never hear from them again until you bump into them at your supplier purchasing the same products you told them you would be using.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

RH said:


> Pete, sounds like you are getting into a complex and unenviable situation with the two HO's giving you their input on how this project should be done.
> 
> Unless you feel that a full strip and redo will _guarantee_ you and the HOs the results you are after, perhaps it might be wise to suggest bringing in a professional floor refinisher for the actual treads and risers.
> 
> ...


RH, I totally agree. This is not something that I would have taken on. This is somewhat of an unusual situation. The HO is a GC that I spent many years working for and I have a very good relationship with him. I have done a lot of work for him and he knows that I, in general,do very good work. Normally I would not want, nor allow a HO to hover over me. And, I think at some point, if I cannot figure out how to fix these stairs that he is going to have to find someone that has done this type of work before. I am beginning to spend more time on them than I want to...I have jobs that I need to get to very soon, or I am going to run into problems.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Pete the Painter said:


> RH, I totally agree. This is not something that I would have taken on. This is somewhat of an unusual situation. The HO is a GC that I spent many years working for and I have a very good relationship with him. I have done a lot of work for him and he knows that I, in general,do very good work. Normally I would not want, nor allow a HO to hover over me. And, I think at some point, if I cannot figure out how to fix these stairs that he is going to have to find someone that has done this type of work before. I am beginning to spend more time on them than I want to...I have jobs that I need to get to very soon, or I am going to run into problems.


It may be even easier to suggest he consider getting a floor professional since you have a good relationship with him. Not only should he respect you for admitting you might not be the best choice for this job (at least I would), but it's also not fair to expect you to continue to dink around (for the reasons you mentioned above) trying to find a solution. 

The longer I am in this business the more convinced I am that knowing one's strengths and weaknesses, and recognizing when to suggest bringing in a specialist, is one of the biggest strengths one can have.


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## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

I can tell you right now that does not look like a money maker for you. Have the guy bring in a flooring professional and let him make the money. You will spend all kinds of time there and not make a dime. I hate those little favor jobs that are actually really difficult to do and you have multiple days in them and cant really charge accordingly.


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