# PPG Breakthrough for cabinets



## jpcarr79 (Nov 20, 2014)

So...after reading some posts, I'm almost convinced to try PPG Breakthrough for cabinets. I currently use the PC Hybrid. Love the properties of the finished product, but I have to wait at least 24 hrs to flip the doors on my dry racks or it leaves marks. Hate that. It slows me down. Has anyone compared these 2 products? I want the best without going lacquer.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

I'm in the middle of my first set with Breakthrough. Haven't tried the PC hybrid, but my last set was done with Advance and I can sympathize with the slow dry/cure issue. It's a real PITA to have to wait that long to flip doors, even then the finish is soft for a while so you have to take extra care handling the doors. 

So far, I'm digging the Breakthrough. It's super fast and sprays good. I'm a airless guy for the most part and haven't tried it HVLP yet. 

I will say the finish quality isn't the same as Advance. Being acrylic it has that latex look. Don't get me wrong, it's a nice looking finish just not like Advance.


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## jpcarr79 (Nov 20, 2014)

Thanks. I was wondering about the finish. That's too bad. I was hoping it was awesome. Advance and PC leave such a nice finish, I'm hesitant to leave them.


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

Jmays, do you think maybe the fact that it's satin is giving it the perception of a lesser appearance?


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Breakthrough looks great sprayed imo. It's a lower sheen satin than Advance satin fwiw. Great adhesion.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Hines Painting said:


> Jmays, do you think maybe the fact that it's satin is giving it the perception of a lesser appearance?



Well, maybe. It is duller than Advance satin. I shouldn't say is a "lesser" finish, it's just...not alkyd. Advance is so sweet it's hard for any acrylic to compete with it. 

Then again I'm just going by the finished boxes and a few test doors I've done so far. I haven't seen the whole picture yet. The boxes look really nice, just not quite to the level I'm used to seeing with Advance. 

















Advance would have been kinda overkill on this set anyway as its oak with grain reduction. 


Put it this way, The Breakthrough I've used so far looks as good or better to me than any other acrylic I've used except for possibly Pro Classic.


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

i never have trouble selling breakthrough






























































​


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

Jmayspaint said:


> Well, maybe. It is duller than Advance satin. I shouldn't say is a "lesser" finish, it's just...not alkyd. Advance is so sweet it's hard for any acrylic to compete with it.
> 
> Then again I'm just going by the finished boxes and a few test doors I've done so far. I haven't seen the whole picture yet. The boxes look really nice, just not quite to the level I'm used to seeing with Advance.
> 
> ...


Jmayspaint
keep us posted with your project i want to see your end results
we use satin 99% of the time because that is what sell here in Florida, we use semi gloss very little

btw great work :thumbsup:


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Repaint Florida said:


> Jmayspaint
> 
> keep us posted with your project i want to see your end results
> 
> ...



Thanks RP, your cabinet thread was a big part of my inspiration to try Breakthrough on this set. I don't regret it either. I can see it becoming my go to cabinet paint for solid colors and maybe even glazes since they have a clear version that could go over the glaze. Just have to experiment and see how it does. 

We do mostly satin on cabinets too, or duller. Lot of times I put a dull rub urethane over glaze. The Breakthrough satin is just about right sheen wise for what we usually do.


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## bbair (Nov 18, 2012)

What are you doing with breakthrough to fill the oak grain? Backbrushing, rolling, or does the grain fill when you spray with an airless?


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

bbair said:


> What are you doing with breakthrough to fill the oak grain? Backbrushing, rolling, or does the grain fill when you spray with an airless?



Secret weapon 

http://fauxcenter.com/faux-effects-...finishing-medium/master-finishing-medium.html

This stuff is the bees knees for oak. Spray on, sand and it fills the pin holes and minimizes the grain overall. Two or three coats will almost totally hide the grain. I'm not quite going that far on this set, but it can be done. 

It's the easiest, fastest method I've seen for grain reduction. I considered using it between coats of Breakthrough but was too nervous about trying such an untested system so I primed with Bin synthetic shellac first, then the finishing medium. 

Not every set is worth the effort of all this, but this one has huge double raised panel cathedral top doors that would not be easily replaced. It's a very cool set, I'm enjoying it.


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## jw129943 (Apr 3, 2014)

Jmayspaint said:


> Secret weapon
> 
> http://fauxcenter.com/faux-effects-...finishing-medium/master-finishing-medium.html
> 
> ...


I just ordered some of this today and can't wait to give it a try! Do you (or will you) have any photos of the grain before and after, using this product? I'm working on an oak kitchen now, so grain filling is top of mind.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

jw129943 said:


> I just ordered some of this today and can't wait to give it a try! Do you (or will you) have any photos of the grain before and after, using this product? I'm working on an oak kitchen now, so grain filling is top of mind.



It's hard to illustrate with a photo because the stuff is almost totally clear. The effect isn't readily apparent until the finish goes on unless your looking right at it. 

Here's a sample door I'm working on that separates the fill step out,









This one doesn't separate the fill step (it's all under the finish) , but shows the effect better, 









It's thick as pudding and can be thinned up to %50 I think









But, the less you thin it the better it works. My 695 will spray it unthinned just fine. 

It can be brushed/rolled too and in a way it works better like that. Hand application pushes it into the grain a little more, it just takes more sanding to smooth it out. It sands easily though. 

On the doors I'm on now I'm doing two coats on the fronts and one on the backs. 

One quirk I've seen with it is a tendency to pull previously unseen stains to the surface. 








It's done that with both regular shellac primer and the synthetic stuff. It's not really a big deal, Just some isolated spots on a few doors. I touch them up with a spray can.


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## jw129943 (Apr 3, 2014)

Wow! Thanks so much for the photos - that looks amazing! I can't wait to try it!


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## jpcarr79 (Nov 20, 2014)

If you don't mind me asking, how many man hours does the average kitchen take you and what does the avg. kitchen cost in your area? I am looking for ways to be more efficient, but doing all the proper steps for cabinets takes a long time. To get jobs nowadays, I have to bid relatively low....around 2k for a set. This includes masking (really well), cleaning cabs, sanding, priming with shellac, sanding again, 2 coats PC hybrid finish. Same system for doors/drawers. After paying for a helper, materials, shop, equip....I'm not clearing as much as I should, or the job is taking too long. I avg.5-6 days....so 70-80 man hrs including myself. I feel like there should be a way to be more efficient....or make more money.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

I hear you jp. Seems like I make more money rolling walls than doing high end trim or painting cabinets. Less stress too. 
I'm currently estimating at 1.5-2 hours per lf. So if I billed at $50 it'd be $75-100 per LF. Depends on how many coats, what you're going over etc. i always think I should have charged more at the end of a cabinet job. I think repaint Florida must have it pretty well dialed in by now.


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

Repaint, what kind of prep do you do before applying the Breakthrough? I know it is marketed to bond without a bonding primer.


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

My last set I bid at 2 hours per door and 1.4 hours per drawer and I think I was about 2 hours short. They were brand new doors though that didn't need any prep so for repaints I'm going to up it a little for the next set I bid. Probably 2.1 hours per door and 1.5 hours per drawer. 

I used to measure linear feet but with using a unit count I can spend my time just talking with the clients and adding in my head instead of needing to pull out a tape measure and start measuring.


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## jpcarr79 (Nov 20, 2014)

I clean w/ mineral spirits, sand, prime, sand, paint 2 coats. (usually don't sand between finish coats. Even though it claims it doesn't need a primer, I'd rather overkill it w/ shellac primer. To Damon: It sucks that reg. interior work pays more....I love that half of the cabinet job is in my shop and not in a home.....that's generally occupied. But I agree w/ ya.


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

For me the money is a lot better painting cabinets :thumbup:

i think hanging door to spray saves a lot of time & we do at least 2 set at a time .... making use of time doing 2 set give us better profit 

last job was 1 house 45 doors / 25 drawers ( and a queen size bed headboard / foot board with side rails ) 2nd house was 29 doors / 11 drawers for a 
total of 74 doors / 36 drawers 

again hanging doors & spraying both side is the secret for us

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmWra446EiY&feature=youtu.be


.


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

Gwarel said:


> Repaint, what kind of prep do you do before applying the Breakthrough? I know it is marketed to bond without a bonding primer.


krud kutter with green pad, sand, clean again, dry, tack cloth

while breakthrough will bond it has no stain blocking so if going white we prime if needed

i have put breakthrough on everything testing it and i haven't found anything it would not bond to


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

It's certainly not the most profitable gig for us either. But I like doing them. I also have a shop close to home, so it's nice to work there. 

About $75 per door and $50 per drawer front. Average set has 25-30 doors. 

That's the thing about this Breakthrough. I can really see it increasing margins on cabinets overall and the end product is great. No, it's not the same as wet sanding Advance to a mirrored finish, but in reality not many people want to pay for all that, nor do they really expect it. 

I primed this last set because I wasn't confident enough not too. But I did do a couple test doors without priming, and it worked fine. Going to play around with it a bit more, and hopefully I'll have the courage to do the next set the "easy way" lol.


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## jpcarr79 (Nov 20, 2014)

I've read a lot of your posts. What you're doing, you're doing right. I can't fig it out though....I'm doing basically the same thing, minus hanging them but can't be anymore efficent than 5-6 days per set. This is not working for 2K jobs (that's what they go for here) after paying a helper, shop, materials, etc. I'm cleaning every set w/ mineral spirits, sanding, priming w/ shellac, sanding, 2 finish coats. If I stagger jobs, I still can't get the effiency below 5 days and I've got to be at 4 days to break even with what I was making doing basic interiors. What's your system Repaint Florida?? I wan't to be Repaint Utah...but am currently closer to Repaint (insert smaller state).


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## jpcarr79 (Nov 20, 2014)

Makes me want to try it without primer. Seems like a cardinal sin. Maybe more.


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

jpcarr79 have you read this thread

Kitchen Cabinet Painting In Orlando Fl 
http://www.painttalk.com/f2/kitchen-cabinet-painting-orlando-fl-34377/

again for me doing 2 / 3 sets at a time / hanging doors / having 3 skilled painters along with breakthrough works


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## jw129943 (Apr 3, 2014)

Repaint Florida said:


> For me the money is a lot better painting cabinets :thumbup:
> 
> i think hanging door to spray saves a lot of time & we do at least 2 set at a time .... making use of time doing 2 set give us better profit
> 
> ...


45 doors and 25 drawers? Holy crap - you hit the mother lode! Please post photos - I really want to see this one. 

For me, the appeal of cabinets is that I can do much of the work off-site, on my own schedule. Plus, I just really enjoy it, quite frankly. Homeowners are always happy to see me, and so far, I haven't had any unhappy customers (knock wood). So, I find that very gratifying. 

The part I dislike the most is reinstalling the doors/cabinet hardware/etc... Even though I love it when it's done, it's a pain in the butt, and I always seem to run into unforeseen snags. If I could hire a crew to do just that, I would be a happy camper. But for now, I'm pretty much a one chick shop, with occasional prep/reinstallation help from my retired-but-young mother. I pay her in wine (after we're finished, of course). I have two teen sons that I'm hoping to put to work this summer, but I think my mom is probably going to come out as the most reliable and cost-effective employee. 

Question about hanging doors while spraying - do you have any issues with getting the edges of the doors well painted with this method? Specifically, the top and bottom? Seems like that might get a little tricky. Or I guess I could just watch your YouTube video...

Jenny


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## jpcarr79 (Nov 20, 2014)

Great post!


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