# Cabinet Paint - The Age Old Question



## Dust Devil (Jan 21, 2020)

Hi everyone. My business is primarily walls and trim these days, but use to paint cabinets all the time (10+ years ago). I am taking on a side project to paint a few built-ins for a customer I did the rest of their house. Been reading a ton on what paint is good these days and been going in circles for hours.

Constraints.
1. The raw wood was already primed with BIN shellac.
2. Paint color is a BM Simple White. So have to avoid yellowing paint/topcoat.
3. Preferred application - I am good with roll/brush, but homeowner wants sprayed. Prefer to try to use my Fuji Q5 HVLP for this. 

So in essence..is there a paint that can run through a turbine HVLP, doesn't yellow, has good blocking and durability?

So far have looked at the paints below and all seem less than ideal.

Paints
1. Cabinet Coat - too thick for HVLP?
2. Breakthrough 250 (available here) - can crackle over BIN shellac? Could reprime if this is best choice. 
3. SW Proclassic - acrylic durability/blocking may be poor, acrylic-alkyld may yellow.
4. BM Advance - 16 hour recoat is awful, and may yellow.
5. Scuff-X - too thick for HVLP?
6. Sherwood Hi-Bild Pre-cat - will yellow? maybe not best over shellac?


No dealers for California (ultraplate), Lenmar, Target Coatings near me (Arizona). Primarily BM, SW, Dunn Edwards. I guess could have a few gallons shipped if I had to.

As said, going in circles here and keep thinking one will work well and then find some problem. Thanks for any tips.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Breakthrough will not crackle over bin so that's not a concern and possibly your best pick given your options. I just don't know how it'll spray through a hvlp, cabinet coat is good too but again I'm not sure how it'll run through a hvlp. Why not just shoot Breakthrough with an airless? Use a 308 tip and you're good to go.


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## Dust Devil (Jan 21, 2020)

Yea, read a few reports of Breakthrough crackling over BIN. Could have just been bad prep or application or humidity.

Examples.








Zinsser Bin under Breakthrough


I had to cover some stains went to Bin let it dry sanded and it is cracking when I spray breakthrough over it? You guys have any ideas why? What can I use to fix this?




www.painttalk.com













Breakthrough and BIN don't appear to be compatible


I posted a thread awhile back regarding a home refinishing project where I was spraying a coffee table with BIN and Breakthrough with my TrueCoat II. Everything horizontal came out fine. Everything vertical came out like chit...like the paint just slid off the primer. The consensus was that the...




www.painttalk.com





No airless believe it or not. We never do exteriors (primarily a fine furniture builder, but paint interiors to keep the doors open and guys busy). Was thinking maybe just buying a handheld like the graco ultra. Just no use for a larger airless rig, would get no use and waste way too much paint/finish for what we usually do.

Thanks thought, I appreciate the input.


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## Masterwork (Sep 13, 2020)

Why not buy a litre of cabinet coat and SCUFF-X and do a test with your hvlp? Be good to know if it's worth trying in the future. 

I know SW Emerald sprays just fine through my hvlp, but I have a different one than you.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Dust Devil said:


> Yea, read a few reports of Breakthrough crackling over BIN. Could have just been bad prep or application or humidity.
> 
> Examples.
> 
> ...


I've sprayed 1,000s of cabinet doors Breakthrough 250 over bin and never had an issue.


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## Dust Devil (Jan 21, 2020)

Thanks, almost went the cabinet coat route. Just chatted with my BM rep though and he says he gets a lot of complaints over color matching. Can't get the whites right with CC, something about the base colorants. 

I have tried SW emerald before, eurathane version - had to thin almost 30% even with the Q5. Just too much, didn't seem as hard afterwards.


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## Dust Devil (Jan 21, 2020)

Rbriggs...great to hear. This sounds like the best option, pretty thin as-is - maybe add some extender to make sure I can wet apply it. Will probably pick up a gallon, can always use it elsewhere if test piece crackles.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

I own a Fuji Q4 and have never had success with spraying any type of acrylic latex through it without significant thinning - which I felt compromised the integrity of the product. The only exception was SW's Pro-industrial Multi Surface Enamel which is pretty thin right out of the can. But, many here do not feel it is durable enough for cabinet work. I will add that I never sprayed Breakthrough, SCUFF-X, or Emerald through my HVLP.

I did spray a lot of Pro-Classic Alkyd through my HVLP, also thinned quite a bit. But I never got the feeling that doing so negatively affected the product as much - though I have no scientific basis on which to make that claim. Of course that paint will yellow more or less depending on the colors.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Dust Devil said:


> Thanks, almost went the cabinet coat route. Just chatted with my BM rep though and he says he gets a lot of complaints over color matching. Can't get the whites right with CC, something about the base colorants.
> 
> I have tried SW emerald before, eurathane version - had to thin almost 30% even with the Q5. Just too much, didn't seem as hard afterwards.


Tinting off whites with CC have them mix formula using the old N310 formula (regal classic pearl) OR look up colors in the new tint base CC65/CC66 which tint on Gennex and dispense it into the CC55/CC56 base. I have been tinting CC 1B and 2B on gennex for a few months now and no problems with colors matching. 3&4B I still tint on color preview using N310 or N333 formula.

Cabinetcoat will shoot fine with a 5 stage hvlp


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

Rbriggs82 said:


> I've sprayed 1,000s of cabinet doors Breakthrough 250 over bin and never had an issue.


I have . It was either humidity, or that I didnt wait 24 hours to topcoat.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Had to be humidity, just today I primed and sprayed two coats of Breakthrough. Waited an hour after priming, gave it a quick scuff, and waited two hours after the first coat before spraying the second. The doors get installed tomorrow.


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## Dust Devil (Jan 21, 2020)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Tinting off whites with CC have them mix formula using the old N310 formula (regal classic pearl) OR look up colors in the new tint base CC65/CC66 which tint on Gennex and dispense it into the CC55/CC56 base. I have been tinting CC 1B and 2B on gennex for a few months now and no problems with colors matching. 3&4B I still tint on color preview using N310 or N333 formula.
> 
> Cabinetcoat will shoot fine with a 5 stage hvlp


Thanks for the information. Will send this to my rep, see what he says.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Dust Devil said:


> Thanks for the information. Will send this to my rep, see what he says.


CC65/66 in the 1B and 2B will be a straight relabel of the CC55/56 base. I tint a lot of CC


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## Dust Devil (Jan 21, 2020)

Woodco said:


> I have . It was either humidity, or that I didnt wait 24 hours to topcoat.


Well it was primed before I showed up, so at least a week. Better be dry by now! I live in Phoenix, so should be no issue on humidity (15% today).

Decisions...decisions. CC with the new color match..or breakthrough. Heard both are good, durable, no yellowing. Probably just pick up a gallon of each.


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

The 2-butoxyethanol in Breakthough is an aggressive solvent & melts shellac which can result in crazing/crackling. It works great when added to crackle lacquer to enhance the crackling, and also works really well at dissolving shellac flake, actually dissolving it better than 95% ethanol..which is one of 2 reasons why I hear of finishers experiencing crazing with Breakthrough & similar finishes containing high concentrations of glycol ethers when used over shellac. EM6000 is another finish which tends to craze over shellac for the same reason.


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## Dust Devil (Jan 21, 2020)

Redux said:


> The 2-butoxyethanol in Breakthough is an aggressive solvent & melts shellac which can result in crazing/crackling. It works great when added to crackle lacquer to enhance the crackling, and also works really well at dissolving shellac flake, actually dissolving it better than 95% ethanol..which is one of 2 reasons why I hear of finishers experiencing crazing with Breakthrough & similar finishes containing high concentrations of glycol ethers when used over shellac. EM6000 is another finish which tends to craze over shellac for the same reason.


Anything to do to help prevent it? A few mist coats to start? Or just re-prime.


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

Dust Devil said:


> Anything to do to help prevent it? A few mist coats to start? Or just re-prime.


I wouldn’t re-prime as long as you have good climate control with low humidity/moderate temperatures, not too heavy on the wet films, and not too quick on the recoat times, and you should be fine.

Although I’ve never used Breakthrough, I’ve run a fair share of clears over shellac which are very similar in chemical composition to Breakthrough, containing the same concentrations of the same or similarly aggressive glycol ethers. I’ve never experienced crazing whereas a lot of finishers have, and I do mean “a lot”.

Although you mentioned it’s already primed, always better to go thin with the BIN for the win, making certain the material is fresh.

Edit: I might add that I’ve got a Fuji Q5 HVLP w/a pressurized gravity feed gun, and although I’ve never shot Breakthough, I’ve shot similar WB acrylics with similar viscosities and got good results. I’d be interested in hearing how the Q5 works with the Breakthrough.


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## Tprice2193 (Oct 3, 2017)

Dust Devil said:


> Hi everyone. My business is primarily walls and trim these days, but use to paint cabinets all the time (10+ years ago). I am taking on a side project to paint a few built-ins for a customer I did the rest of their house. Been reading a ton on what paint is good these days and been going in circles for hours.
> 
> Constraints.
> 1. The raw wood was already primed with BIN shellac.
> ...


I use a 4 stage HVLP and have successfully sprayed about everything you mentioned but things like Proclassic and Emerald have to be heavily thinned. My go to straight out of the can is General Finishes White Poly over BIN. A new one I have tried recently for cabinets is Gemini EVO pigmented. Both dry very quickly and can be easily sanded and recoated same day. The white poly is spray only. The Gemini EVO can be brushed and rolled.


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

How about Kem Aqua + from SW. I believe stores can tint, not just the chem coating stores. WB lacquer, I know this can go over BIN, but you might reprime with the surfacer


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## Dust Devil (Jan 21, 2020)

thanks again. I looked at the General Finishes white poly, but need to color match the BM Simple White.

As to kem aqua +, good suggestion. I remember looking into that before..I think problem was long lead time getting it tinted or maybe only available in 5 gallon buckets.


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## Scum138 (Nov 21, 2020)

Dust Devil said:


> thanks again. I looked at the General Finishes white poly, but need to color match the BM Simple White.
> 
> As to kem aqua +, good suggestion. I remember looking into that before..I think problem was long lead time getting it tinted or maybe only available in 5 gallon buckets.


if your in the Phoenix area check out painters supply for a product called lorchem waterbased lacquer...I believe the specific product is hydro edge. Should be thin enough for your hvlp. I’ve never personally used it due to the lack of local distributors but I use a similar one and they’re pretty bad ass.

edit: I think it’s aqua ls at second thought, give them a ring I’m sure they’ll fill you in.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

If your spraying with hvlp, why not use something like the Lenmar Duralaq. Water based lacquer. If your a furniture guy, you should be familiar with these products..I too have not had any success spraying latex paints through my hvlp. 
I'm pretty sure any Ben Moore dealer sells it. Shouldn't be hard to tint to a Simply White.


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## Raska (Nov 24, 2020)

Thinking too much about the result can sometimes feel like this. Scuff-X should work just fine


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## Scum138 (Nov 21, 2020)

Raska said:


> Thinking too much about the result can sometimes feel like this. Scuff-X should work just fine


your not wrong with that statement, I used to , and still overthink many aspects of a project. I’m of the opinion that it would be better to overthink, than the contrary, however there’s something to be said about keeping it simple. Scuff x, will give you everything your looking for when your done, but 2-3 years later who knows. I love scuffx, but as many have probably mentioned know one knows what to expect long term. I’ll use it with zero reservations on everything except cabinets and things with daily surface use like a table or desk for instance..


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## Dust Devil (Jan 21, 2020)

Thanks everyone, should have thought about Duralaq. We really only ever use Pre-cat CAB Acrylic for the furniture furnish.


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## Masterwork (Sep 13, 2020)

I've done some samples... Scuff-x, advance, emerald. I'm still trying to get cabinet coat. 

So far the winner is..... Emerald. I thought for sure advance or scuff-x would beat it, based on what you guys are all raving about on here. I still have high hopes for CC, since it's also a Urethane. 

I'll post some pics later. I'm doing destructive testing on some spare cabinet doors. Fingernails, keys, putting my ladder on it and wiggling the ladder around, kicking it with a work boot, etc... Very scientific.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Masterwork said:


> I've done some samples... Scuff-x, advance, emerald. I'm still trying to get cabinet coat.
> 
> So far the winner is..... Emerald. I thought for sure advance or scuff-x would beat it, based on what you guys are all raving about on here. I still have high hopes for CC, since it's also a Urethane.
> 
> I'll post some pics later. I'm doing destructive testing on some spare cabinet doors. Fingernails, keys, putting my ladder on it and wiggling the ladder around, kicking it with a work boot, etc... Very scientific.


Don't forget also to drop your coffee cup on it and have a dog chew on it..


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Redux said:


> The 2-butoxyethanol in Breakthough is an aggressive solvent & melts shellac which can result in crazing/crackling. It works great when added to crackle lacquer to enhance the crackling, and also works really well at dissolving shellac flake, actually dissolving it better than 95% ethanol..which is one of 2 reasons why I hear of finishers experiencing crazing with Breakthrough & similar finishes containing high concentrations of glycol ethers when used over shellac. EM6000 is another finish which tends to craze over shellac for the same reason.


@Redux,

I get the feeling that you do not like BIN for use as a cabinet primer? Please correct if mistaken or if I over-simplified your position. *You mentioned BIN had longevity issues over veneers in a previous post, but I'm sure I have not read all of your posts on the subject.

I also get the impression you tend to use more specialized finishes (ones that may not be readily available to some of us - I have limited availability to many specialized finishes).

- Wondering which primers you might consider suitable for use with Pro Classic or Urethane fortified paints like Emerald (re: cabinets)? (eg., how do you feel about Bullseye 123?)


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Masterwork said:


> I've done some samples... Scuff-x, advance, emerald. I'm still trying to get cabinet coat.
> 
> So far the winner is..... Emerald. I thought for sure advance or scuff-x would beat it, based on what you guys are all raving about on here. I still have high hopes for CC, since it's also a Urethane.
> 
> I'll post some pics later. I'm doing destructive testing on some spare cabinet doors. Fingernails, keys, putting my ladder on it and wiggling the ladder around, kicking it with a work boot, etc... Very scientific.


I also like Emerald.
Has anyone confirmed whether the Alkyd causes yellowing?


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

Holland said:


> @Redux,
> 
> I get the feeling that you do not like BIN for a cabinet primer? Please correct if mistaken or if I over-simplified your position. *You mentioned BIN had longevity issues over veneers in a previous post, but I'm sure I have not read all of your posts on the subject.
> 
> ...


I’m not a BIN hater...it’s just rarely used on interior wood in my region primarily due to longer term environmental related failures. The summers are characterized by swamp-like 90% + humidity and the winters are bone dry, especially with forced hot air dry heat. The resulting seasonal moisture content swings combined with the wood’s seasonal expansion & contraction causes BIN to crack and fail prematurely. In other environments & regions which aren’t as extreme it probably works just fine.

For under more conventional painter grade finishes, both I and many painters whom I know use Moore’s 024 or 217.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Redux said:


> I’m not a BIN hater...it’s just rarely used on interior wood in my region primarily due to longer term environmental related failures. The summers are characterized by swamp-like 90% + humidity and the winters are bone dry, especially with forced air hot dry heat. The resulting seasonal moisture content swings combined with the wood’s seasonal expansion & contraction causes BIN to crack and fail prematurely. In other environments & regions which aren’t as extreme it probably works just fine.
> 
> For under more conventional painter grade finishes, both I and many painters whom I know use Moore’s 024 or 217.


The TDS shows that BM 024 and 217 as a 6-8 hour dry and re-coat time.
Bullseye 123 can be re-coated in 1 hour, and levels out nicely (possibly due to glycol?).

Why do you like BM 024 or 217? Does it justify the long-wait times? Thanks.


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## Masterwork (Sep 13, 2020)

Holland said:


> The TDS shows that BM 024 and 217 as a 6-8 hour dry and re-coat time.
> Bullseye 123 can be re-coated in 1 hour, and levels out nicely (possibly due to glycol?).
> 
> Why do you like BM 024 or 217? Does it justify the long-wait times? Thanks.


123 doesn't block wood tannins.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Masterwork said:


> 123 doesn't block wood tannins.


Good point. 

How do people feel about Coverstain?


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Holland said:


> Good point.
> 
> How do people feel about Coverstain?


between 024 and coverstain... no comparison. Night and day difference. 217 will powder up very nicely.


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## Masterwork (Sep 13, 2020)

Wat is 024 and 217? I hate when people use the BM numbers instead of the product name....


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Masterwork said:


> Wat is 024 and 217? I hate when people use the BM numbers instead of the product name....


for your consideration:





Fresh Start Premium Interior Primers


A choice of acrylic or alkyd formulas that deliver exceptional adhesion, holdout and stain suppression and create the foundation for smooth, premium top coats on a variety of interior surfaces. <br><br><a...




www.benjaminmoore.com






> *Enamel Underbody Primer 217*
> An alkyd-based primer that's recommended for wood trim, doors, cabinets and other surfaces where an ultra-smooth topcoat is desired. The superior adhesion qualities provide outstanding enamel holdout.
> 
> Interior primer with superior flow and leveling
> ...







> *Multi-Purpose Oil Based Primer 024*
> A premium quality alkyd primer is a universal favorite when a quality under coater, sealer and stain blocking primer is needed. It can be used over oil or latex paint and performs equally well under all Benjamin Moore architectural finish coats.
> 
> 
> ...


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> between 024 and coverstain... no comparison. Night and day difference. 217 will powder up very nicely.


024 ((Multi Purpose Primer) is similar to Coverstain? but different (better)?
217 (Enamel Underbody) powders up nicely.

I recently found out that I have BM dealer nearby, am excited to finally try some of the products that have been touted on PT. I am familiar with Zinser primers and SW, and have no prior experience with BM.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

coverstain is a fast dry *exterior primer for raw wood.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Holland said:


> coverstain is a fast dry *exterior primer for raw wood.


Quite frankly the fresh start primers are so vastly better than coverstain you wouldn't ever look at it again. BM 100 (extrior long loil) or 094 (fast dry exterior).


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## jr.sr. painting (Dec 6, 2013)

If you have the time to wait the bm 217 with some penetrol will give you perfect results every time. Sands excellent and topcoats like a dream, especially with latex finish.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

jr.sr. painting said:


> If you have the time to wait the bm 217 with some penetrol will give you perfect results every time. Sands excellent and topcoats like a dream, especially with latex finish.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


But how is the adhesion to old finishes. ?Like varnishes etc.. Maybe I will go back to good old oil paints.


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

finishesbykevyn said:


> But how is the adhesion to old finishes. ?Like varnishes etc.. Maybe I will go back to good old oil paints.


The 217 doesn’t adhere too well to hard glossy finishes even after deglossing. It’s more of a high solids undercoater hence “enamel underbody”. The 024 although not a bonding/adhesion promoting primer per say, exhibits really good adhesion on re-coats yet the existing film requires a scratch profile to insure a good bond. Been using one or a combination of both on “every” project for over 40 years except under cabinet specific coatings w/not so much as a hiccup (although the names have changed/same products except for VOC changes over the years). Takes a long time to dry before being able to intercoat sand, particularly when tinted to deep colors. I’ve had to wait well over a week before sanding and recoating in some instances.


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

Holland said:


> coverstain is a fast dry *exterior primer for raw wood.


I’ve only used the Moorwhite & 094. The past few years I was hired to perform 2-complete exterior paint strip/removals on two massive fairly new homes primed by others with Coverstain due to the underlying primer cracking & peeling on nearly every surface to some degree, more or less. Although not not cracking and peeling everywhere, when prepping, a sound feathered edge couldn’t be achieved without the primer further flaking & chipping, being just too darn brittle, potentially resulting in progressive failure if not removed. Coverstain just isn’t conducive to the environment here, which isn’t to say it doesn’t perform well elsewhere.


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

Holland said:


> The TDS shows that BM 024 and 217 as a 6-8 hour dry and re-coat time.
> Bullseye 123 can be re-coated in 1 hour, and levels out nicely (possibly due to glycol?).
> 
> Why do you like BM 024 or 217? Does it justify the long-wait times? Thanks.


I’ve never used 123 as a full primer. When applied to mil spec, given its solid content, the dry film is too thin for my liking. I prefer high solids solvent borne primers/undercoaters cause I like to do a lot of hand and/or machine leveling to achieve a really flat surface.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> between 024 and coverstain... no comparison. Night and day difference. 217 will powder up very nicely.


# Literally sells this product for a living.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Redux said:


> I’ve only used the Moorwhite & 094. The past few years I was hired to perform 2-complete exterior paint strip/removals on two massive fairly new homes primed by others with Coverstain due to the underlying primer cracking & peeling on nearly every surface to some degree, more or less. Although not not cracking and peeling everywhere, when prepping, a sound feathered edge couldn’t be achieved without the primer further flaking & chipping, being just too darn brittle, potentially resulting in progressive failure if not removed. Coverstain just isn’t conducive to the environment here, which isn’t to say it doesn’t perform well elsewhere.


My criteria for a good primer is: bonding.
As long as the underlying surface is sound, then the primers main function (IMO) is to "stick to" the substrate, and similarly allow the top-coat to "adhere" to the primer coat; Flexibility (or rather non-brittle) being a key component.

The only place I have ever witnessed catastrophic Coverstain failure - exterior (not due to pre-existing conditions) was on a Fence. I knew it was going to fail as moisture intrusion was too severe (and impossible to seal fully due to several factors, namely it was a fence), and previous paint applied by HO had failed. The cover stain appeared to have formed a non-breathable "film" and was forced off the surface. (I don't believe ANY horizontal surface, or fence, or arbor etc... should be primed or painted). *We re-did the fence a few years later and moved it into an oil-based Solid Stain (P&L Stainshield) and that held up with significantly better results.

Coverstain will stick to glass and varnish, and I have not observed peeling edges. It powders fairly well (and quickly).
I would like to compare BM primers in future.

*I HAVE had primer failures in the past (exterior) with long oils, that did not fully dry before re-painting. They created such a problem that time, that I was afraid to use them again.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Redux said:


> I’ve only used the Moorwhite & 094. The past few years I was hired to perform 2-complete exterior paint strip/removals on two massive fairly new homes primed by others with Coverstain due to the underlying primer cracking & peeling on nearly every surface to some degree, more or less. Although not not cracking and peeling everywhere, when prepping, a sound feathered edge couldn’t be achieved without the primer further flaking & chipping, being just too darn brittle, potentially resulting in progressive failure if not removed. Coverstain just isn’t conducive to the environment here, which isn’t to say it doesn’t perform well elsewhere.


You've confirmed it was actually the 'primer' that was causing the cracking and peeling, and was in fact brittle?


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> BM 100 (extrior long loil) or 094 (fast dry exterior).


BM - Hardware Store


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

Holland said:


> You've confirmed it was actually the 'primer' that was causing the cracking and peeling, and was in fact brittle?


Yep..primer failure at wood-primer interfaces on 4 different wood species, all kiln dried and primed all sides before installation, all cuts spot primed during installation too. It was even completely detaching and flaking off the unexposed end cuts where not exposed to direct weather such as the porch soffits and up in the eaves, as well as where back primed after removing some facia & siding boards to determine what was up with the peeling. It turned brittle/flaky and could literally be removed where back primed with a stiff duster brush or by rubbing it with the palm of my hand in some but not all places. I hadn’t done the exterior originally but was working on the interior and was keenly observing the priming, installation, and finishing.


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

Holland said:


> My criteria for a good primer is: bonding.
> As long as the underlying surface is sound, then the primers main function (IMO) is to "stick to" the substrate, and similarly allow the top-coat to "adhere" to the primer coat; Flexibility (or rather non-brittle) being a key component.
> 
> The only place I have ever witnessed catastrophic Coverstain failure - exterior (not due to pre-existing conditions) was on a Fence. I knew it was going to fail as moisture intrusion was too severe (and impossible to seal fully due to several factors, namely it was a fence), and previous paint applied by HO had failed. The cover stain appeared to have formed a non-breathable "film" and was forced off the surface. (I don't believe ANY horizontal surface, or fence, or arbor etc... should be primed or painted). *We re-did the fence a few years later and moved it into an oil-based Solid Stain (P&L Stainshield) and that held up with significantly better results.
> ...


You make a good point with Coverstain’s bonding ability being it’s an MPI approved solvent based bonding primer whereas 024, 217, and 094 aren’t. 
I haven’t had the opportunity to try the newer Moore’s AP C085 which is also MPI approved, having a very high solids content, and 3 hr recoat time.
Long oil primers can result in solvent entrapment and heat blistering due to entrapped solvents. I use the old fingernail test before finishing over long oils..


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Holland said:


> I also like Emerald.
> Has anyone confirmed whether the Alkyd causes yellowing?


Apparently the hybrid will eventually yellow slightly. But waaay less than traditional oils.


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## Ricks Painting (May 2, 2020)

Spend the 50-$150 whatever for a 3m PPS 2.0 system. Thin Scuffx ATLEAST 10% if not go with the kem aqua + since that stuff is ready to spray and is super thin. I hate using breakthrough its not designed for HVLP and will dry on your tip. if id ever spray with it again which i wont ever but if i did it would be airless only.


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## bdaddymorse (Nov 16, 2011)

Dust Devil said:


> thanks again. I looked at the General Finishes white poly, but need to color match the BM Simple White.
> 
> As to kem aqua +, good suggestion. I remember looking into that before..I think problem was long lead time getting it tinted or maybe only available in 5 gallon buckets.


You can't go wrong with BM's Advance. As for look, the best, But yea slow dry, and some yellowing.


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## Packard (May 2, 2018)

Dust Devil said:


> Hi everyone. My business is primarily walls and trim these days, but use to paint cabinets all the time (10+ years ago). I am taking on a side project to paint a few built-ins for a customer I did the rest of their house. Been reading a ton on what paint is good these days and been going in circles for hours.
> 
> Constraints.
> 1. The raw wood was already primed with BIN shellac.
> ...


I like to use shellac or a shellac-based primer for water-borne finishes as they seal without raising the grain. I also had crazing when applying Breakthrough! over shellac. It was suggested to me that a longer cure time on the shellac would resolve that problem. I then applied a pigmented shellac primer and waited three days to apply the Breakthrough!. It crazed again.

The PPG dealer said that no primer was required for Breakthrough!. I had my doubts. I sprayed out a sample with no primer. It did not raise the grain. I scored the finish with a sharp utility knife blade into 1/8" squares and applied masking tape to see if the squares would lift off. They did not. I think that is a reasonable level of adhesion. I finished the job with no primer.

The Breakthrough dried fast and hard. I would use it again, but none of the dealers stock it in 250VOC and they have a four-gallon minimum. So not too convenient.


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## Respec (Sep 13, 2015)

Dust Devil said:


> thanks again. I looked at the General Finishes white poly, but need to color match the BM Simple White.
> 
> As to kem aqua +, good suggestion. I remember looking into that before..I think problem was long lead time getting it tinted or maybe only available in 5 gallon buckets.


I use Kem Aqua + all the time and like it a lot. Super easy to spray through an HVLP. My paint store tints it and stocks it for me. Tinting can be done in any local store, but it may be available in only certain stores. White and medium colors are available in singles, dark tint base is 5's only, clear base is singles. My local store was getting it from other stores for a while, but now stocks it because I use so much of it. It can go over shellac and the premium wall & wood. We generally use the surfacer though. It blocks stains and tannins pretty well. Occasionally, we will spot prime stubborn spots with shellac, but it is usually just a couple spots. We pay $25 a gallon for the surfacer, where shellac I'm paying almost $50. Another big reason to use it.


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