# help!! cedar gazebo wrong filler used and clearcoated!



## michaelthepainter (Apr 25, 2012)

If anyone can give me suggestions on how to tackle this situation..
a previous painter screwed up and i.ve been charged to fix it.
He used the wrong color wood fill, which was not sanded nor applied properly,then he clearcoated with *Helmsman. not a good app, puddle runs and drips.
Do i strip the clearcoat and remove the patches and start over? can i sand and how much would that effect the surface of the cedar?
or do i give the contractor the sad news to prime and paint??
here are some pics...


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Most likely don't have to strip the entire thing. Just sand the bad areas, do your best to remove the putty. If that's not possible a gel stain matched as closely as possible. Then spot the areas with clear and clear the whole thing again to blend.


Another idea, have a faux painter come in and turn the patches into "knots". I don't know if that's something you can or can't do, but its possible.

Sent from my Android, which is still better than the iPhone 6


----------



## michaelthepainter (Apr 25, 2012)

thats awesome! thank u!i can do the faux,and the gel stain,would the sanding change the surface of the wood? and there would be a difference on how the clearcoat actc on the surface, i really want to get this thing looking how its supposed to.its a great opportunity to establish a good relationship with a developer.


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Problem with sanding the patches is it would make the cedar very smooth in those areas.


----------



## Ultimate (Mar 20, 2011)

michaelthepainter- 

There is a significant amount of time investment for ya there. A relationship goes two ways. If you didn't make that mess, it isn't your problem until you make it yours. Problems like that don't fix cheap.


----------



## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

If this was my job, I would charge T&M to do a process sample in an inconspicuous area in order to establish a system. Once everyone was pleased with the results, I would submit an estimate for the entire project.


----------



## Delta Painting (Apr 27, 2010)

Boy that sure is bugered up... What a jackass thinking that would fly..


----------



## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

I'm assuming that you'd have to sand whole sections to make it look good, the entire face of a batten, for instance. It also may take some hand work with coarse grit to end up restoring some texture to the sanded surfaces.

One of those things that would have cost a lot less to do right the first time than it will to fix.


----------



## Xmark (Apr 15, 2012)

maybe you can try some gel paint remover in small areas. then you can just scrape it off instead of sanding it down to bare wood. you won't want to sand every last sq inch of that job. with the nail holes perhaps a small drill will remove the patching compound. that job is going to take a lot of patience my friend. good luck!


----------



## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

If you touch it its yours


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> If you touch it its yours


I would stay away from that one, unless you had good vibes about the customer, and I would probably do T&M too.


----------



## wje (Apr 11, 2009)

Who In there right mind would start that, get part way through it, and think it was looking good enough to continue. I would not touch that thing with a ten foot pole.
The best case scenario, is that it turns out looking like it was supposed to form the beginning. Worst case scenario, you are tied up with somebody elses mess way longer than it should have taken to begin with. Some jobs you couldn't pay me enough to do, and this falls in that category.


----------



## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

How old is it( did the helmsnan amber), if recent, sand it, furniture pen, refinish again. You don't putty before your first coat. Most likely they used stainable wood filler, it looked close enough until the spar varnish and the cedar showed its true color. It's not rough hewn so it doesn't matter if it's not super smooth to start with, sand the filler and the grain will make it fly. Don't promise them the world but you can deliver them 95+ %. Just don't let them know that. It's easily recoverable. Factor a full refinish on surfaces plus prep, sanding all locations, one coat affected areas, furniture pens, and then a full over topcoat. I wouldn't waste the time digging it out. That's pita and will leave you even bigger holes to match and fill. 

Just my. 02.


----------



## Repaintpro (Oct 2, 2012)

Holy geez..............Who would putty like that on timber and not sand off the remaining putty at all before applying the next coat. 

I see a couple of potential issues.......

1. If the person has used linseed oil putty on this "before" applying the first coat of clear it could have left an oil stain in the timber that may be very difficult to sand out. Maybe it is the waterbased wood filler and you might get lucky with a sand

2. You will probably have to use the same product to finish this job as he has used in the first place so the clear takes to the timber the same way and has a uniform finish.

3. If this has been done for a couple of months or more the cedar you strip back to remove putty/filler may look a different shade to what is there if it had deepened up a bit over time. CApainter is probably right too, that is good advice.

IMHO........... Tackle the job, try and work thru it, know you will have to get it looking right. This is just one of those jobs that builds a massive experience base for you to draw on.


----------



## SeattleHomeServices (Sep 20, 2012)

How badly do you want 5 minutes alone in a room with the previous contractor now lol. 

I can't believe someone did that and thought "meh that's good enough, get some clear on there an call her a day ... lets get paid!"

I see this a lot, but this is one of the worst. You can tell he used his fat finger to apply it and didn't even bother making sure it looked decent. Just smear some here and there. Amazing.


----------



## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

TJ Paint said:


> I would stay away from that one, unless you had good vibes about the customer, and I would probably do T&M too.


Some jobs are NOT worth doing :yes:


----------



## michaelthepainter (Apr 25, 2012)

thank u everyone for recommendations. it is apparent that the previous guy did not have the skill or knowledge to handle that job or any freakin job, i gotta say thanks for the job security!
i have 0ver 25 years hands on experience here in fla. i've seen and fixed some boo boos but this won the top ten spot!
Seeing this i knew that in order to get this to specs, lots of time lots of sanding lots of cleaning, i was hoping for a better more efficient way but no. consensus rules. i did a test run on a piece, sanding is definately going to change the character of the wood, but its gonna look a ton better! pulling out the stain pens now. and will send pics of the finished product. thanks everyone a big help!
:yes:


----------



## spotco2 (Sep 18, 2012)

Did the previous dude actually get paid for that crap?


----------



## painterman (Jun 2, 2007)

try finding a soda blaster in your area.very slow but uniform finish to start over with.


----------



## tntpainting (Apr 3, 2008)

$ that wont be cheap to fix buddy


----------



## michaelthepainter (Apr 25, 2012)

Im happy and confident to say that i touched it. and its mine! A time and material job.
WE shall use a wire brush wheel to bring back the character of the cedar.
get rid of the Helmsman and use the Sickens system.
thank all my peers here cause u led me in the right direction.
my goal was to double my business in 2013,
This rescue led me to 32 condos 4000 sq ft each
ive reach my goal before i even put the plan to use!
off to a really good year!


----------



## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

I would definitely do t&m, I hate fixing other painters mistakes and never give a bid as you never know how long it will real take to correct the issues.


----------



## painterman (Jun 2, 2007)

Wire brush it  please post some pictures of that ...should be interesting


----------



## johnny949 (Apr 13, 2012)

How about a follow up with what you did and maybe a picture? Curious..


----------



## michaelthepainter (Apr 25, 2012)

*the progress*

unfortunately im having issues uploading pics. but the job is making progress. the aroma of cedar is awesome.
We decided to strip all of the clear coat and patches via Parks overtime and pressure wash. after that gingerly sand the areas that were firred.
Made the gazebo ready for inpection. exceeded the developer's expectation.
I am now on the superhighway to having a stable flourishing company for the next 2 years. no need to look for another client.
Now, i gotta figure out how many skilled painters i need for a high end project with 39 condo homes and a 400 hundred unit complex when the 39 are done.
I think i need a business manager now!!
pics soon!!


----------



## painterman (Jun 2, 2007)

don't count your chickens before the eggs are hatched....tread carefully my brother of the brush


----------



## michaelthepainter (Apr 25, 2012)

yup. im still trying to upload pics here... might have to upload to another site then try again.
im treading lightly!
my status here is im a guy in a little tiny boat with 20lb testing on a kmart pole, im sorrounded by a fleet of 20 and 60ft fishing boats with all the bells and whistles.. they are watchin and waiting... cause i got the biggest fish in the bay!!
pray my line doesnt break!


----------



## premierpainter (Apr 17, 2007)

Hope that you can make it through the first 39 houses. Lots can go wrong while your there. Make sure every house is completed like its your first house.


----------



## Toolnut (Nov 23, 2012)

Looking at the pics looks like a DIY job gone bad but blame "previous" painter.


----------



## ligboozer (Oct 13, 2009)

michaelthepainter said:


> unfortunately im having issues uploading pics. but the job is making progress. the aroma of cedar is awesome.
> We decided to strip all of the clear coat and patches via Parks overtime and pressure wash. after that gingerly sand the areas that were firred.
> Made the gazebo ready for inpection. exceeded the developer's expectation.
> I am now on the superhighway to having a stable flourishing company for the next 2 years. no need to look for another client.
> ...


 
This is your first project with this company, correct? I would take it slow and cautious. The hiring of the previous painter and the seemingly quick decision to give you a couple of decent sized projects don't inspire much faith. I'm all for you taking a swing at the big time, but a lot of guys strike out. YMMV.


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I agree. Red flags abound on this one, you do it long enough and your spidey senses would be tingling as well. I hope you make lots of money and the stress doesn't overwhelm you.


----------



## Repaintpro (Oct 2, 2012)

I agree with the above posts..............just step back for a second a have a look at it.

Builder who does a large amount of domestic housing gets a small gazebo fixed by a one man band painter and asks him to take on large projects because he fixed small gazebo? 

Does he know you can project manage this kind of work?
Does he know you can handle it financially?
Does he know you can finish project in his time lines?
If you miss a draw on project price can you employ 4 guys for another month with no other money coming in?


Mate, I am not having a go at you............I would have heard the same statements 1000 times of people offering more work if I complete this job well. My answer no is "lets get this one complete first and then we can talk". No matter how exciting the offer they put on the table sounds.


----------



## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

michaelthepainter said:


> If anyone can give me suggestions on how to tackle this situation..
> a previous painter screwed up and i.ve been charged to fix it.
> He used the wrong color wood fill, which was not sanded nor applied properly,then he clearcoated with *Helmsman. not a good app, puddle runs and drips.
> Do i strip the clearcoat and remove the patches and start over? can i sand and how much would that effect the surface of the cedar?
> ...


Is this that gazebo Wise did?


----------



## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

NEPS.US said:


> Is this that gazebo Wise did?


I don't think so. I think he now flashes phones for cricket


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> Is this that gazebo Wise did?


Pergolas n such..


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

michaelthepainter said:


> get rid of the Helmsman and use the Sickens system.


What factors came into play in decided on using a Sickens system?


----------



## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

TJ Paint said:


> What factors came into play in decided on using a Sickens system?


We've done that for a number of customers, primarily for maintenance reasons. When the Helmsman fails, it'll be a royal pain to refinish. What we like about Sikkens is the ease with which it is re-coated, wash down, let dry, apply. Even if it's on a shorter re-coat cycle, the savings in prep make it worth while.


----------



## michaelthepainter (Apr 25, 2012)

*progress*

it sucks that im not able to upload pics here, any one else having trouble??
as far we decided sickens at first, because of the maintenence process, yet i think they will change their mind back to helmsman acrylic. the interior looks fantastic. after stripping, we scrubbed the cedar with tsp solution. Now its dry ready for finishing process.
As far as me, a little guy with a big project.. i can manage a seven man operation. However.. right now, metaphorically, I'm a little guy in a little boat in a big sea, with a kmart fishing pole 20lb test line. Im sorrounded by a fishing fleet of boats with all the bells and whistles. they to have their lines in the water, watching, waiting....i'VE GOT THE BIGGEST FISH IN THE SEA!!
an di could lose it any second!
the only good thing i have is i ve established that im a craftsman and his archetech for 10 years is my client and friend for 8 of those years..
But the money is good, and the repore is really good. the developer looks at me right now as the hero... hope i can keep it up. next project... the model center


----------



## michaelthepainter (Apr 25, 2012)

*pic*

lets try this pic.


----------



## michaelthepainter (Apr 25, 2012)

*pic*

more pics comin...omg! what a process figuring out how to export these pics!


----------



## michaelthepainter (Apr 25, 2012)

*strip process and tsp scrub complete.*

here's where we are now. waiting for the clear-coat to be decided.
after inspection, the developer stated that i had exceeded his expectations! of course we did!! any suggestions as far as clear coat?? caue its up in the air again


----------



## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

I would use the BM Arborcoat protective clear 636. BTW Looks really good !!!!

Here is a pic of the BM Arborcoat colors, I would suggest applying a coat of the Transparent 637 on a natural or cedar tone followed by the 636. You can offer them a maintenance plan.


----------



## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

I'm a fan of Sikkens for areas that will take a fair bit of maintenance, since re-coating is so simple. We haven't used the ArborCoat clear yet, so I don't know about how it fares over time and what steps are necessary when it's time to reapply.


----------



## Repaintpro (Oct 2, 2012)

Ceder inside...........just leave it bare :thumbup:


----------



## sendit6 (Sep 6, 2008)

suggest to the customer that priming and painting it would look better.


----------



## michaelthepainter (Apr 25, 2012)

nice, i like the waterborne, never used arborcoat, how is the maintenance compared to helmsman, i;m trying to steer away from that. thanks for the direction!


----------



## premierpainter (Apr 17, 2007)

I don't think that there would be much maintenance to the interior. Vertical cedar will not get much weather, like a deck would


----------



## michaelthepainter (Apr 25, 2012)

meeeee tooooo!!


----------



## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Michael. how much of this is exposed to the weather? I can't tell from the photos, but most gazebos that I've seen, there's not a clear distinction between inside and outside. That's why most of them have exterior finishes inside and out. Not sure what the weather is like where you are, but around here, even vertical cedar that's untreated develops water stains fairly quickly if it's exposed to rain.


----------



## ligboozer (Oct 13, 2009)

premierpainter said:


> I don't think that there would be much maintenance to the interior. Vertical cedar will not get much weather, like a deck would


 

This. 

I would recommend a product like Superdeck. Not the toughest for exterior use but perfect for the interior of the gazebo. I have always liked the look of Superdeck on cedar, really soaks it up and looks rich.


----------



## michaelthepainter (Apr 25, 2012)

not so much on the inside, they'll have screens and tinted windows. so its afe from weather.


----------



## michaelthepainter (Apr 25, 2012)

*stains and muddy patches on cedar.*

alright, question of the day...cloudines around the wood grey and black stains appeared... we need a goood unform finish without these blemishes. i just washed everything with tsp. looked great! for a day or two.. what could i do..
cloudiness might be more of the clearcoat??? needs gel strip?? stains.. woodbleach. what do the professas think?
thanks everyone for your help... if im successfull in my endeavors,here, ill have paint talk and all of you to credit for my efforts.


----------



## premierpainter (Apr 17, 2007)

Get some stain on it. Quit messing around with all of the cleaners, gels and other stuff.
Its a freakin' gazebo. Stain it and be done.


----------



## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

I'd be inclined to try some wood bleach on a small section. This doesn't seem to be the kind of job where the "git 'er done" approach fits.


----------



## michaelthepainter (Apr 25, 2012)

wish i could... but a clearcoat is is all its
gettin,


----------



## TNpainter (Dec 7, 2011)

Hell worst case scenario grab a stain marker or crayon would be my last resort.


----------



## caulktheline (Feb 10, 2011)

TNpainter said:


> Hell worst case scenario grab a stain marker or crayon would be my last resort.


How would you go about correcting that with a stain marker?


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Cloudiness could be from residual chemical, or even hard water like calcium. Hard to say. Give it a quick wipe prior to clear coat and all should be well. If its the clear coat clouding, that's a whole new issue.


----------



## TNpainter (Dec 7, 2011)

caulktheline said:


> How would you go about correcting that with a stain marker?


Well as i stated last reso. shade all the nail holes with the marker I'd probably lean more towards the crayons. Mohawk makes a crayon set that has every color under the sun. I mean times is money. And this fella been struggling for a solution. Or just color the gazebo with the marker.... Lol


----------



## caulktheline (Feb 10, 2011)

TNpainter said:


> Or just color the gazebo with the marker.... Lol


and charge by the hour haha


----------



## michaelthepainter (Apr 25, 2012)

NCPaint1 said:


> Cloudiness could be from residual chemical, or even hard water like calcium. Hard to say. Give it a quick wipe prior to clear coat and all should be well. If its the clear coat clouding, that's a whole new issue.


did some tests it a whole issue ... got it covered


----------



## Repaintpro (Oct 2, 2012)

Can I just say something here..............we dont do a whole lot of cedar here at all, however I do remember striping cedar windows with my dad for over a month...........he was a stickler for getting the sanding right. 

I noticed on some areas that I had sanded it was drying patchy, he made me go back and re-sand it smooth and the problem was solved. It seemed like the cedar too on different colours depending on the level of sanding it received.


----------



## mikemb72 (Dec 13, 2011)

must be left raw


----------



## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

Nice can of worms!


----------



## michaelthepainter (Apr 25, 2012)

*more pics/ ready for finish coat.*

here's what we've been up to this past week, interior, roof, and exterior clean and ready for finish coats!

the previous painter wannabe sprayed the semitransparent stain on the exterior.
it looked like a solid body stain. good thing he sprayed cause the stain just sits on the surface, we pressure washed 95% of it off.


----------



## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

how long have you been working on this?


----------



## michaelthepainter (Apr 25, 2012)

started abefore thanksgiving, about 140 hrs right now. i got about 40 hrs left for finish coat


----------



## painterman (Jun 2, 2007)

so you will have 180 hrs into this  6-7k in labour I would think that soda blasting would have been more cost effective


----------



## michaelthepainter (Apr 25, 2012)

probably, it was the interior and the+ r-oof that took the time. the exterior came off in less than 12 hours.


----------



## Ultimate (Mar 20, 2011)

Nuts. I love this industry.


----------



## Ultimate (Mar 20, 2011)

Wonder if this is finished yet.


----------



## David's Painting (Nov 7, 2012)

HouseOfColor said:


> Wonder if this is finished yet.


He was on his way to bigger and better projects.


----------

