# Fast yet effective way of pressure washing and painting a deck???



## PA Custom Paint (May 16, 2009)

We'll power wash and paint a deck next week. It's about 600-610 sq/ft plus about 80 fascia. With puttying, prep, power wash and 2 coats of painting included I figured it would take us about 24 labor hours. I'm not getting enough to get this job done to be honest. It's kind of a favor to a friend. Business is bad it is and there is no need to pay for labor from my own pocket (if possible).
I was wondering id there was a way to cut down the hours and material if possible without sacrificing the quality? I know it sounds like searching the Holy Grail. But I figured with some brainstorming we may be able to find out a way. I'm all ears. What do you think?
Thanks,
Matt


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

I hope you mean it's going to take a crew 24 hours of 2-3 guys and not actually 24 man-hours if this is an already painted deck that will require copious amounts of scraping and sanding after washing along with primer. You are counting only the floor area correct - and not taking into account all the raling/balusters/posts into this square footage calculation?


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

Matt, a job that size would get me about $2200 in our market with about 18 man hours/3 trips spent on the process. Are you spraying?


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## PA Custom Paint (May 16, 2009)

plainpainter said:


> I hope you mean it's going to take a crew 24 hours of 2-3 guys and not actually 24 man-hours if this is an already painted deck that will require copious amounts of scraping and sanding after washing along with primer. You are counting only the floor area correct - and not taking into account all the raling/balusters/posts into this square footage calculation?


Hey Daniel. Deck surface, steps, handrail and benches are included. Everything else is excluded (what's left anyway, right ?).
I actually meant 24 man hours. Usually we complete a job like this with a crew of 2 men in 2-3 days (depending on weather usually in 2 days).
Thanks,
Matt


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## PA Custom Paint (May 16, 2009)

PressurePros said:


> Matt, a job that size would get me about $2200 in our market with about 18 man hours/3 trips spent on the process. Are you spraying?


Hi Ken. 
What I'll get for this job is nowhere near $2200 to be honest. I'm doing this and another pressure wash/light painting job almost as a "favor" to this company in hopes of getting some sub work from this company. I'm trying to convince myself that it's a favor to a friend so I wouldn't feel bad about the money that I'll get for tis job. Actually come to think of it.... Le me find the details of the other job and post here to see what you guys think.
Here is my breakdown for this job...

*Deck Wash 4 hours
Deck Prep 7 Hours
Deck Paint 9.25 Hours
Fascia 2.5 Hours
Clean Up 1.25 Hours 

TOTAL 24 Hours* 

I was hoping to save a few hours to save a few bucks. But I'm not sure if that's possible at all. What's your breakdown of 18 hours by the way?

Thanks,
Matt


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## PA Custom Paint (May 16, 2009)

Below is the 2. job that I'll do for this company. As I said before this is the first time I'm doing a job for them. Basically I'm taking a hit to see what happens as far as getting more and better sub jobs after these 2 first jobs. I figured the worst comes to worse I'll be out a few bucks but at least will find out that I can't work with/for these people.

Paint shutters/ front screen door, front door and frame, garage doors ( 1 coat) and spot power wash of dormer, some siding etc.

Here is my breakdown...

*Power Wash 4.5 Hours
Prep 1.5 Hours
Shutters 10 Hours
Doors 5.75 Hours
Clean Up 1.25 Hours 

TOTAL 23 Hours*

I'll get peanuts for this job too but I'll do it anyway. The first job has a lot of power washing involved and I was hoping that I could save some hours by using different chemicals to get the same results faster. However I think it's not really possible. Maybe I'm so concerned about the money that I'll get for the job and the actual cost (forget the profit) that it makes me try to find a solution that doesn't exist.
Thanks,
Matt


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

Ok - so this isn't a deck with floor area of 20x30 or 60x10 - this is all surfaces included in the square footage. I just completed a similar size project in 17 man-hours. Basically after prep was finished - it only took 1-1/2 gallons of latex stain, brushed, to cover all surfaces.

I didn't make anywhere the money Ken suggests - but the way I controlled my costs was to 'upsell' a housewash and gutter cleaning. So when I went there to wash the deck - I was also making money doing other things.


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## PA Custom Paint (May 16, 2009)

plainpainter said:


> Ok - so this isn't a deck with floor area of 20x30 or 60x10 - this is all surfaces included in the square footage. I just completed a similar size project in 17 man-hours. Basically after prep was finished - it only took 1-1/2 gallons of latex stain, brushed, to cover all surfaces.
> 
> I didn't make anywhere the money Ken suggests - but the way I controlled my costs was to 'upsell' a housewash and gutter cleaning. So when I went there to wash the deck - I was also making money doing other things.


Upselling is really a good idea in general but when you're sub'ing it's out of question. Did brushing it all vs. spray help with time or cost or both for that matter? Also was it easier?
Thanks,
Matt


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

My sprayer is in the shop - thats why I haven't been spraying lately. It's a damn necessity with oil based stains to spray - you'll need copious amounts of tarping everywhere to control overspray. But with latex solid stain - it's 10x easier to control the mess. I tried brushing a whole deck by hand with oil semi stain - and it still got all over the siding with every little twinge of my wrist muscle. As with latex solid stain - it flows nice and only goes where you want it to. So no need for tons of masking and tarping. 

I guess there is no really easy answer - I have been fortunate to have a nephew working with me lately who is easily taught - he has no pre-conceived ideas or experience - so he actually believes what I tell him. So the two of us working in tandem has really sped things up.


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## PA Custom Paint (May 16, 2009)

plainpainter said:


> My sprayer is in the shop - thats why I haven't been spraying lately. It's a damn necessity with oil based stains to spray - you'll need copious amounts of tarping everywhere to control overspray. But with latex solid stain - it's 10x easier to control the mess. I tried brushing a whole deck by hand with oil semi stain - and it still got all over the siding with every little twinge of my wrist muscle. As with latex solid stain - it flows nice and only goes where you want it to. So no need for tons of masking and tarping.
> 
> I guess there is no really easy answer - I have been fortunate to have a nephew working with me lately who is easily taught - he has no pre-conceived ideas or experience - so he actually believes what I tell him. So the two of us working in tandem has really sped things up.


They want SW Deckspaces which is a solid latex stain. I think I'll go with a wide roller after light cutting as necessary. What do you think? That should cut down the painting hours a little.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

Staining floor boards really isn't the 'bottleneck' so a wide roller really isn't going to cut much time from the whole process. If you have a lot of railing - then you'll need a sprayer to quicken things up. The real drain on time is the prep. And there isn't really much you can do that will quicken this process - unless you are willing to invest in some really large buffing equipment. Which is monetarily counterproductive for you at this time - this is one you'll just perhaps have to suffer through. Properly pricing decks is the only way that you will be able to afford better equipment in the long run. And better equipment will eventually yield better and fast results. As an ancient Greek Philosopher/Mathematician once said to a king 'There is no 'Royal' road to the understanding of Geometry' and so there is no 'easy' way to getthing these decks done.


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

Matt, not sure how long you have been in business so if this stuff you already know, please do not take it as talking down to you. The dangling carrot of "future work" rarely pans out. Most often you take it on the chin. Even if it does pan out, what message are you sending to the contractor? To me, it would mean you work cheap. Yeah, I would like you and give you more work with the understanding that your initial price is what I would be paying now and in the future. I win, you lose. Staying busy is not synonymous with being profitable.

A wise man once said to me, "As it begins, so it shall be." Took me awhile with not bidding properly, having crappy employees and bending over for homeowners to realize how much of a business creedo that statement is.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

We had a saying in the sales department where I worked. "You don't want to be remembered for the lowest price." 

Once people look at you as the "discount guy", that is what they always see. (and expect)


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Hey: I think your on to something.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

I know a very high end home builder whose floor sanding subs will sand and 3 coats for $0.75/SF for him. And yet the going price for a professional floor sanding company is triple that cost - and they're still not rich. Now that G.C. will never see value in anything over $0.75/SF. You start working cheap - you end up working cheap. Cheap begets cheap.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Spinning your wheels, but getting no where.


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## PA Custom Paint (May 16, 2009)

wow...


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

PressurePros said:


> Matt, not sure how long you have been in business so if this stuff you already know, please do not take it as talking down to you. The dangling carrot of "future work" rarely pans out. Most often you take it on the chin. Even if it does pan out, what message are you sending to the contractor? To me, it would mean you work cheap. Yeah, I would like you and give you more work with the understanding that your initial price is what I would be paying now and in the future. I win, you lose. Staying busy is not synonymous with being profitable.
> 
> A wise man once said to me, "As it begins, so it shall be." Took me awhile with not bidding properly, having crappy employees and bending over for homeowners to realize how much of a business creedo that statement is.


If we had a nickel for everytime we heard the term "future work"....

Ken is absolutely right in his assessment of this. This is just another example of a price shopper, just using a different tactic is all. And all you'll end up with is hard feelings when the phone doesnt ring.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

I had a friend do a really big interior job for basically cost - in return the homeowner dangled the 'carrot' of giving him the exterior as well. So when time came for the exterior - she got multiple estimates and he got the boot. That's like the 2nd or 3rd oldest homeowner trick on the books.


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## 4ThGeneration (Apr 17, 2007)

I would have said I am going to price this job as i need it to make a profit and for you to be able to see the kind of quality work I perform. After this you will be considered a loyal customer and will get a insider discount for your exterior.

Sometimes that works and sometimes it does not. 

As far as rolling it is whatever you are comfortable with. I can actually knock a house out with a 9 inch roller faster than most can with the 18inch roller because I am a work horse with the roller. 

This is figures from about a 32 condo contract we used to paint back in Ponte Vedra, FL (TPC)

we would paint the walls, trim in over 10,000 square feet in one day with like 6 painters.

Walls:We used to spray our closets as well as all cut in such as corners, prime base, cases and interior doors.

By myself with everyone cutting in ceilings by brush, I would roll two coats on 8 master bedrooms, 8 other bedrooms, 16 bathrooms, 8 kitchens and 8 great rooms. All this in one day. With this said, coating a deck of 600 SF should be a snap even with 2 coats. You can mask off everything and just blow-n-go with a back roller and be done even faster. You would actually be waiting on the paint to dry longer than the coating. The thing is since you are in this is to be smart with the quality while not being slower than whale snot. 

Not saying you are, but just stating the obvious. 

Objectives:
1.If you do not make any money sure as heck do not cost yourself any.
2.Keep the quality high
3.Complete the work as quickly as possible

If you complete all these tasks your name will be upheld and you will be getting referrals sometime.


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## PA Custom Paint (May 16, 2009)

I should have more descriptive I'd guess. The said deck was 18 years old and had been neglected probably since Day 1. To top it off some blind elephant must have used solid color stain on it a couple of years ago. It honestly was the deck from hell. After 9 extra gallons of solid color stain, 1 broken sander, a dozen boxes of sandpaper and about $800 loss I decided to inform the homeowner that I would not come back to finish unless a carpenter put new wood as needed. When I came back the carpenter had put a few new ones and left. The man of the house is apparently laid off and don't have a bunch of money for the deck. So I decided to finish it and move on. You win some. You lose some. I lost money and it looks like a crappy job (which it is). By the way I decided not to sub for that cert-a-in company after all.
Thanks,
Matt


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## johnisimpson (Oct 5, 2007)

Matt, take it as a lesson learned and move on (which it sounds like you're doing). Probably most every guy on this board could share a story of a job they lost money on, myself included. It makes me sick to think of those but I just count it as the cost of learning. By the way, in the future, you might try pushing hard for a transparent or semi-transparent stain for boards that are that weathered and beaten.


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## 4ThGeneration (Apr 17, 2007)

Badly weathered decks with no coating or semi transparent I would push for semi-solid.

For decks that have a latex semi solid, they would get the same unless the owner wants to pay for:

Heavy strip
pH balance
Heavy and total sanding of every inch of latex solid off the deck

If they do not want to pay for this to get it to a semi transparent or semi solid stain then they can go blow rocks because you will not make it look worth the effort of stripping alone. Also, you will create an anti ad campaign that works all day long.

I just finished a Norristown Deck Washing Saturday and this was the case. They did not want to go for the full sanding and other goodies, so they got the middle of the road pachage. Turned out pretty good, but nothing like a total sanding.


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