# was spreading BEHR ULTRA flat...



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Whenever possible I like to break product down to see what results I might find beneficial, BEHR ULTRA Flat was no exception. Over the past few days I applied Ultra flat mixed in sherwin williams blonde to go over benjamin moore super-hide linen white flat from 15 years ago. I reduced Ultra by 24oz for my first coat and could have easily reduced by 32oz and not compromise coverage. I made no effort whatsoever to get the paint to a full coverage but easily could have.

Some characterists about Ultra.

1) hard to remove from hands, tools, plastic buckets etc
2) dries fast similar to Aura but with no side effects
3) Dried paint in pan liner can easily be reused next morning without paint softening back up in the pan
4) rolls very nice
5) coverage is awesome
6) Flat is very nice to look at when dry. One of my favortite flat finishes.
7) workable on the wall, you can play with it all you want... its lays out like it was never fooled around with
8) although reduced by 24oz, I cut ceiling lines fast and solid without effort.
9) Flat loves NOUR aqua glide covers
10) oh was hairspray? guess it didnt matter.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

JP. You know how much dirt is going to be flung your way for this post?

Have used a fair amount of it. I think it's a nice product, plus I have always liked working with heavier bodied paints. Never thinned it that much though.


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

I made my feelings about Behr products pretty widely known over on CT...so I won't even start over here.

From the OP...I'd have to say that maybe they're better now than the last time I used any.

But no matter how "good" the products get, I refuse to stand in line with Suzie Homemaker waiting for my materials.

Nor will I ever wear my whites into a HD...it's simply a matter of pride.

sorry

call me a jackass

see if I care


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## bigjeffie61520 (Oct 3, 2009)

thanks for the post JP
so you add 24 oz of water per gallon?
how does this benefit, easier to apply? more paint for less money?
just want to be clear i follow...
did you need to double cut? or did you use your button roller trick to get tight?
I looked for that hefty Alpha brush you like at my paint store, but they didnt have it. guess i need to go online


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

bikerboy said:


> JP. You know how much dirt is going to be flung your way for this post?
> 
> Have used a fair amount of it. I think it's a nice product, plus I have always liked working with heavier bodied paints. Never thinned it that much though.


Me neither. Thinning is usually minimal if any. I prefer not to but I had time and opportunity to see what would happen. The flat is heavier than eggshell. Never tried reducing the eg. Just thought it was good to find out what can be done with the flat. I should mention, my drywall patches flashed a bit on 1st coat because reduced it so much.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Steve Richards said:


> I made my feelings about Behr products pretty widely known over on CT...so I won't even start over here.
> 
> From the OP...I'd have to say that maybe they're better now than the last time I used any.
> 
> ...


Know what u mean. Standing in line at sw with Susie is the same BUT the other day at HD I had 2 gal tinted. In and out in 12m some seconds. Lady was telling me how PC's ask what the deal is with Ultra... Stating if it still takes 2 coats then why bother pay more. $30 for flat. Eliminates a separate prime coat is one reason. 

For me the ultra eliminates extra coats or gets you a nice solid 1st coat faster.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

bigjeffie61520 said:


> thanks for the post JP
> so you add 24 oz of water per gallon?
> how does this benefit, easier to apply? more paint for less money?
> just want to be clear i follow...
> ...


I set out to reduce it because was curious. No time was spent getting coverage when it came to applying 1st coat except for cutting the ceiling line. Basically I saw it was fine so ran with it. I rolled within 1" for 1st coat the tight on 2nd. Planned on 2 coats anyway but that could have been 1 coat.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

so the reduction was for curiosity sake? Or because you don't like working with thicker bodied paints?

I guess I don't understand the need to buy an expensive flat at HD either. 1 coat coverage isn't achieved anyways. 

any decent 100% acrylic has good adhesion. I can't remember any paint that has gone soft in a tray liner the next day. But I generally use decent paints. Even what I would consider lower quality like glidden ultra hide 250 does.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Its good to know theres a decent paint from HD, in case a customer insists on a color from there and insists on using behr.

its just called Behr Ultra?


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

TJ Paint said:


> Its good to know theres a decent paint from HD, in case a customer insists on a color from there and insists on using behr.
> 
> its just called Behr Ultra?


Behr Premium Plus Ultra


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

That is the exterior this is the interior. 

One question does Behr have a scrub-able flat or matte like every other good paint vendor?


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

is the egshell as "good" as the flat?


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

TJ Paint said:


> so the reduction was for curiosity sake? Or because you don't like working with thicker bodied paints?
> 
> I guess I don't understand the need to buy an expensive flat at HD either. 1 coat coverage isn't achieved anyways.
> 
> any decent 100% acrylic has good adhesion. I can't remember any paint that has gone soft in a tray liner the next day. But I generally use decent paints. Even what I would consider lower quality like glidden ultra hide 250 does.


Yep curious. I do all sorts of crazy stuff testing paint, reducing being the least of my concerns but good to know. I'll paint over anything to see what it's capable of. 


Seems like there are few paints that won't soften back up in the pan overnight. You've been lucky. You can pull or pick 150 250 350 off a 5 easy tho. Duration same thing. 

No problem spreading heavy flats but why bother when you need to I suppose.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

TJ Paint said:


> Its good to know theres a decent paint from HD, in case a customer insists on a color from there and insists on using behr.
> 
> its just called Behr Ultra?


Behr Premium Plus Ultra. I order by saying three 5's of ultra flat, ultra eg.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> That is the exterior this is the interior.
> 
> One question does Behr have a scrub-able flat or matte like every other good paint vendor?


It is. Also on MPI #53 flat which goes thru a 3000 scrub cycle test if I'm not mistaken.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

straight_lines said:


> That is the exterior this is the interior.
> 
> One question does Behr have a scrub-able flat or matte like every other good paint vendor?


The Behr Flat enamel is scrubable. You got to make sure you tell them flat enamel, otherwise you will get plain flat. I really like it. 

*(throw stones here)*​


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

TJ Paint said:


> is the egshell as "good" as the flat?


Well. Let's say their capabilities are the same but applying stock, they're different. Eg is a real treat to roll and touch up. Effortless results. Flat is much like other heavy flats. I have video I'll be posting soon for the pour test review.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

bikerboy said:


> The Behr Flat enamel is scrubable. You got to make sure you tell them flat enamel, otherwise you will get plain flat. I really like it.
> 
> (throw stones here)


Right there is behr flat (non ultra) also a behr flat enamel then ultra flat which only comes as flat enamel.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> It is. Also on MPI #53 flat which goes thru a 3000 scrub cycle test if I'm not mistaken.


 
No Behr paints meet MPI's High Performance Architectual standards. (3000 scrub cycles) In fact very few paints do, and no level 1 sheens (flats) make it.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

bikerboy said:


> No Behr paints meet MPI's High Performance Architectual standards. (3000 scrub cycles) In fact very few paints do, and no level 1 sheens (flats) make it.


Its listed on #53 flat and eggshell is.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

JP likes to go against the grain I think and use DIY paints.I have no problem with that, it's up to him to do what he wants to do. If jp likes to go into HD and stand in line with all the home owners that don't know what they are doing, it's cool with me, but if he really wants to help us at PT out why doesn't he do a review on paint that we as a pro would use? does it really matter how good or bad that paint is, most of us will not be using it. JP is either getting a kick back or he just wants attention I think because he knows how most of us feel about HO stuff.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

JP we need to set a standard with you. If you do a review on HD paints you have to do one for good paint, OK?


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> Its listed on #53 flat and eggshell is.


 
Not to be argumentative, but where?

MPI#53


I think you mean one of these two and its not there either.

MPI#138 X-Green

MPI#138

This is the lowest sheen levels (2) in the high performance catagories.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

johnpaint said:


> JP we need to set a standard with you. If you do a review on HD paints you have to do one for good paint, OK?


Ok... but you wont like it, but I'm honest and thorough as it pertains to the test performed. I have most stuff sitting around... whats your pick?


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

bikerboy said:


> Not to be argumentative, but where?
> 
> MPI#53
> 
> ...


My bad. Made this mistake before because there are two #53. Here

Go back to xgreen and compare Behr Ultra. According to my link it should be listed Xgreen too, same approval scores. Wonder if that is a mistake.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

John, I'm being serious here.... if I thought there was another product to substitute Ultra in the same price range +/- a few... I promise I would be using it to my advantage.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


> Ok... but you wont like it, but I'm honest and thorough as it pertains to the test performed. I have most stuff sitting around... whats your pick?


Most of the paint I use is from a local company, and Kelly Moore paints which I don't think you have back there, but I will not ever use any HD paints if I can get out.Can't figure why any pro would.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


> John, I'm being serious here.... if I thought there was another product to substitute Ultra in the same price range +/- a few... I promise I would be using it to my advantage.


What is the cost?


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

johnpaint said:


> Most of the paint I use is from a local company, and Kelly Moore paints which I don't think you have back there, but I will not ever use any HD paints if I can get out.Can't figure why any pro would.


He is telling you why. In his testing it is the best overall paint. I personally wish they weren't exclusively HD, because I hate going in there. 

Maybe if I bought all my paint from there and dealt with the same people mixing my paint everyday I would feel different.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

What I have seen is most local paint companies can beat the cost/ quality of paints like SW and others, you just have to use maybe their best paints and work a good price with them. I would rather give my money to the local area anyway.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

johnpaint said:


> What is the cost?


$30, 31, 32 flat, eg, semi


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

jack pauhl said:


> $30, 31, 32 flat, eg, semi


i can get ben for around the same. I guess I'd go with Ben. 

John made a good point. Doesn't seem like you review any paints, other than showcasing behr. How do you compare behr with anything else when you don't talk about anything else?


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

Well, Cleveland is home for Sherwin Williams and Pratt&Lambert paints. Why not those?


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> He is telling you why. In his testing it is the best overall paint. I personally wish they weren't exclusively HD, because I hate going in there.
> 
> Maybe if I bought all my paint from there and dealt with the same people mixing my paint everyday I would feel different.


Yeah OK, then tell us why don't you go in there and get your paint? Is it not a contractors environment to you? Do they work with you as a contractor to give you a better price because you buy more paint?


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

plainpainter said:


> Well, Cleveland is home for Sherwin Williams and Pratt&Lambert paints. Why not those?


I've had great experiences with P&L. Its my go to brand now.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> He is telling you why. In his testing it is the best overall paint. I personally wish they weren't exclusively HD, because I hate going in there.
> 
> Maybe if I bought all my paint from there and dealt with the same people mixing my paint everyday I would feel different.


HD has regulars. You learn who to go to and who is still learning, just like anywhere. Use the prodesk. Call it in - pick it up. I only go there for a couple primers and Ultra. Straight forward checkout.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

If you get on the pro program the paint gets pretty cheap. But like you said, HD's service is not all that. It's not Behr's fault tha HD tends to lean towards HO's. 

They tried getting me on board, gave me fax numbers, email addresses, phone numbers. In the end they (HD) always forgot to check that stuff unless it was first thing in the morning. Then the checkout at the "Pro Desk" takes forever.

Supposedly there is going to be a code that pro's can enter at the checkout line that prevents you from having to go to the pro desk. Any special pricing will be automatically entered by using the code.

Also Glidden is going away and a new Berh contractor line is going to appear.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


> $30, 31, 32 flat, eg, semi


That's a lot of money and you should be able to work with your rep with (EVEN) SW to do better than that.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

TJ Paint said:


> I've had great experiences with P&L. Its my go to brand now.


I'll admit its been awhile since I spread P&L but we have a store local. What are you using for semi gloss trim and something for eg on walls? What do they call it?


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

TJ Paint said:


> I've had great experiences with P&L. Its my go to brand now.


 Agreed, I've been a P&L boy since the 90's - and I am thick in Ben Moore territory.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

johnpaint said:


> That's a lot of money and you should be able to work with your rep with (EVEN) SW to do better than that.


No deals like SW and the others unfortunately. Like Apple pricing model. We know its awesome so pay for it.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> I'll admit its been awhile since I spread P&L but we have a store local. What are you using for semi gloss trim and something for eg on walls? What do they call it?


Trim: Accolade semigloss, Designer White {it's also the mixing base}

Walls: Accolade Velvet


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

TJ Paint said:


> I've had great experiences with P&L. Its my go to brand now.


P&L is very good paint but gives me a headache bad.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

jack pauhl said:


> I'll admit its been awhile since I spread P&L but we have a store local. What are you using for semi gloss trim and something for eg on walls? What do they call it?


trim would be accolade

I've had great results with the egshell "gold" line for walls, and its a midgrade quality. great hide and touchup, and good coverage. And at $17/gal, I was highly impressed.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


> No deals like SW and the others unfortunately. Like Apple pricing model. We know its awesome so pay for it.


No, I will let you go in and do your thing.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

johnpaint said:


> P&L is very good paint but gives me a headache bad.


how so?


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

plainpainter said:


> Trim: Accolade semigloss, Designer White {it's also the mixing base}
> 
> Walls: Accolade Velvet


Ok same names I remember. I used to use P&L exclusively years ago, then BM then I realized each place had one of two really good products so I used those and in the meantime found others. Same thing tho, I find one or two great products and stick with them until something new comes along. I have one or two paints I will use from all the paint companies around here,some more favored than others and some are strictly dependent on the sheen I'm after. Primers all come from Zinsser so far. No Kelly Moore but I hear good things.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

JP do you offer any warranty using Behr ?


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

TJ Paint said:


> how so?


Their wall paint only, love the trim paint.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

TJ Paint said:


> trim would be accolade
> 
> I've had great results with the egshell "gold" line for walls, and its a midgrade quality. great hide and touchup, and good coverage. And at $17/gal, I was highly impressed.


re eg gold: Similar price to Cashmere which is popular here for repaints. How would you compare it to Cashmere? In that price range I typically go for Glidden semi-matte Ultra Hide 150. Its a few bucks less, awesome paint tho.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

I must admit I get a little shy going into HD paint department, don't like others to see me there. lol


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> JP do you offer any warranty using Behr ?


Yep. I'll fix any failure, no questions asked. Odd how I never find myself doing that tho even outside of using Ultra.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


> Yep. I'll fix any failure, no questions asked. Odd how I never find myself doing that tho even outside of using Ultra.


 2 year warranty ?


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

jack pauhl said:


> re eg gold: Similar price to Cashmere which is popular here for repaints. How would you compare it to Cashmere? In that price range I typically go for Glidden semi-matte Ultra Hide 150. Its a few bucks less, awesome paint tho.


I can't get cashmere here for that price. I might have to try the 150 out sometime. semi-matte means egshell basically?


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

johnpaint said:


> I must admit I get a little shy going into HD paint department, don't like others to see me there. lol


I picked up work there because I had whites on and the lady behind me really didnt want to paint but was there buying paint. Snatched that right up. Told her what to buy, see you next Monday.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


> Yep. I'll fix any failure, no questions asked. Odd how I never find myself doing that tho even outside of using Ultra.


Your a true HD man. That's good that you are loyal to the company Jack.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

TJ Paint said:


> I can't get cashmere here for that price. I might have to try the 150 out sometime. semi-matte means egshell basically?


low sheen eg similar to 200 lo sheen


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

jack pauhl said:


> I picked up work there because I had whites on and the lady behind me really didnt want to paint but was there buying paint. Snatched that right up. Told her what to buy, see you next Monday.


thats what im going to do when I get openings in my schedule. Just hang out at HD with my whites on in the paint dept. Grab some leads.


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## LOSTinDETAILS (Jun 17, 2009)

ta-da! (tä dä*′*)


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


> I picked up work there because I had whites on and the lady behind me really didnt want to paint but was there buying paint. Snatched that right up. Told her what to buy, see you next Monday.


This does not help, I have also picked up work by driving into SW parking lot and I didn't even get embarrassed.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

TJ Paint said:


> thats what im going to do when I get openings in my schedule. Just hang out at HD with my whites on in the paint dept. Grab some leads.


:lol:


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

I have to admit that JP is cut from a different mold and that's cool with me. Jack next time I come in to HP to get that extension cord I need be sure to wave to me from the paint department.


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## ezpaintks (Mar 8, 2010)

Went in to Home creepo today to pick up a few odd and end hand tools. Ran into someone I know while walking past the paint department. Asked me if I had every used "Behr Paint and Primer in one", I just flat out said "no, I go to a paint store to buy my paint. SW and BM are pretty much the way to go."
I think they ended up just buying some "ceiling paint" not sure what...but oh well. I bet I end up getting a call to put some actual paint/color on the walls


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

johnpaint said:


> I have to admit that JP is cut from a different mold and that's cool with me. Jack next time I come in to HP to get that extension cord I need be sure to wave to me from the paint department.


HP ? :whistling2:


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Ultimately it comes down to finding the right product match for the HO. Although, I wont hesitate to upgrade at my own costs if I feel I need to -to get the job done better or faster. Just helps knowing what you can do with various product in different price ranges. Paints all have limitations at some point so its simply matching the right product for the job.

A difficult color change and I wouldn't hesitate to buy Ultra to eliminate a few coats for coverage. Ultra has many nice features and characteristics but I think ultimately its driving advantage is coverage. That impacts labor substantially.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> 2 year warranty ?


:whistling2:


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

TJ Paint said:


> thats what im going to do when I get openings in my schedule. Just hang out at HD with my whites on in the paint dept. Grab some leads.


Our HD has nice tall seats. SW no seats, sorry you'll have to stand.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> 2 year warranty ?


I'll go back and fix any job any time no matter what, no questions asked. I use the Nordstrom's customer service policy. Exterior is different.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


> Our HD has nice tall seats. SW no seats, sorry you'll have to stand.


I like your orange vest JP.
If they want my business they will have to start their own paint stores.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

I read this in brief but it summarizes in bold the Nordtrom way.


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## bigjeffie61520 (Oct 3, 2009)

thanks again JP

I am listening

emphasize service- I like that

I am still favoring my local BM store for same reason


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## vandy (Apr 22, 2010)

I used Behr Ultra Premium Flat Enamel a couple of weeks ago.

Truthfully, it was great. I'm not going to lie.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Behr is about a popular as these little guy's on PT.
http://i.imgur.com/wH1PZ.jpg


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

johnpaint said:


> Behr is about a popular as these little guy's on PT.
> http://i.imgur.com/wH1PZ.jpg


how in the world did you find that picture?:whistling2:


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## bigjeffie61520 (Oct 3, 2009)

johnpaint said:


> Behr is about a popular as these little guy's on PT.
> http://i.imgur.com/wH1PZ.jpg


i am a little slow--can somebody explain ? /


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


> Ultimately it comes down to finding the right product match for the HO.



Part time $7.45 an hr. Home Depot sales associates "find the right product match for the HO".

As a professional painter the HO hired me to "use the correct product for the job".

Not once in 10 years has anyone insisted that I use Behr, as a matter of fact I believe Behr is mentioned repeatedly in the "Red Flags" thread.



> Although, I wont hesitate to upgrade at my own costs if I feel I need to -to get the job done better or faster.


That's what painting contractors who ruined their business think as they are calling you to coach them back to health...amirite?

and your million dollar solution for New England Painting Services: "Use Behr!!"



> Just helps knowing what you can do with various product in different price ranges.


Well, knowing your business as a business person is a valuable business trait.




> Paints all have limitations at some point so its simply matching the right product for the job.
> A difficult color change and I wouldn't hesitate to buy Ultra to eliminate a few coats for coverage. Ultra has many nice features and characteristics but I think ultimately its driving advantage is coverage. That impacts labor substantially.


thank you jp...



bigjeffie61520 said:


> i am a little slow--can somebody explain ? /


you see back in the day computers ran on "disks"...

that is a truly hideous picture for many reasons.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

WisePainter said:


> Part time $7.45 an hr. Home Depot sales associates "find the right product match for the HO".
> 
> As a professional painter the HO hired me to "use the correct product for the job".
> 
> ...


Thanks for another useless cluttering post wise. Do you ever have anything useful to say or informative. You wouldn't make it til 9 on my jobs. I'd fire you for stupidity.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

WisePainter said:


> Not once in 10 years has anyone insisted that I use Behr, as a matter of fact I believe Behr is mentioned repeatedly in the "Red Flags" thread.


 
Either you have no Home Depot's in your area, or just have not had enough customers. Maybe insist is the wrong word, but I get asked about Behr often. 

They do some heavy radio and tv advertising in my market.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

bikerboy said:


> Either you have no Home Depot's in your area, or just have not had enough customers. Maybe insist is the wrong word, but I get asked about Behr often.
> 
> They do some heavy radio and tv advertising in my market.


Sounds as if Wise knows a little too much about the inner workings of HD. :whistling2:


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

bikerboy said:


> Either you have no Home Depot's in your area, or just have not had enough customers. Maybe insist is the wrong word, but I get asked about Behr often.


If you did 3 jobs a year for the same people you might not get asked.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Bender said:


> If you did 3 jobs a year for the same people you might not get asked.


 
:laughing:​


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

johnpaint said:


> Most of the paint I use is from a local company, and Kelly Moore paints which I don't think you have back there, but I will not ever use any HD paints if I can get out.Can't figure why any pro would.


John, what do you pay for 1685 up there?


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

Not a week goes by that someone doesn't ask me to use Behr Ultra Premium Plus or the like. I tell them no problem,but it will cost more than if I use what I recommend.I then work up their proposal with 2 options. Most of the time they end up going with my recommendation,sometimes not...I don't really care.
Honestly I think it's good paint as well.It's just a bit inconvenient to get but I add that inconvenience to the price and everyone's happy!


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


> Thanks for another useless cluttering post wise. Do you ever have anything useful to say or informative. You wouldn't make it til 9 on my jobs. I'd fire you for stupidity.


The second I saw you dump behr onto the site, firing me would be pointless (because I would have already quit...).

ya' clown, promoting that substandard bile around here...and about your "right painter/place/company" blahblahblah, is that an endorsement from a trusted painting authority, or just fancy typing?



bikerboy said:


> Either you have no Home Depot's in your area, or just have not had enough customers. Maybe insist is the wrong word, but I get asked about Behr often.
> 
> They do some heavy radio and tv advertising in my market.


I have nothing to do with it, just never comes up.



vermontpainter said:


> Sounds as if Wise knows a little too much about the inner workings of HD. :whistling2:


painted 4 NC HD's using Barf...'er Behr...



Bender said:


> If you did 3 jobs a year for the same people you might not get asked.


3 jobs or 30 jobs, making the same money.
They call me the WisePainter.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

wp said:


> painted 4 NC HD's using Barf...'er Behr...


In all honesty,
how are they holding up?


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

Bender said:


> In all honesty,
> how are they holding up?


In all honesty, about as good as can be expected for Behr. 
Application went like wrestling a Twinkie away from a starving fat chick.
Coverage was less than yay.
And the oil didn't even provide a decent head change.

Houghton Lake MI.
Ludington MI.
Benton Harbor MI.
& 1 in Ohio somewhere...I quit caring after Benton Harbor...


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Bender said:


> John, what do you pay for 1685 up there?


Around 25.00. How do you like this paint?


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## ligboozer (Oct 13, 2009)

johnpaint said:


> Around 25.00. How do you like this paint?


 

I use a lot of K/M products and I am very happy with their line, although some of their paint sheens seem shinier than other brands. I used a ton of 1685 when I was in the union, it was spec'd for alot of school jobs and we were using it on the train stations for the city of San Jose light rail. (commuter train)


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## Harry (Aug 4, 2008)

bikerboy said:


> Behr Premium Plus Ultra


JP,
I just used some last week. I bought one gallon that was a very dark burgundy color (forget the exact title) and another of a charcoal color (something hush) and both performed excellent. The hiding was superior, angular quality was great too.
BTW, if you go to HD at 2PM and after 4PM, there is no waiting...lol.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Major paint manufacturers re-formulate their paints all the time....and from reading some comments in other threads on this forum, with less than stellar results. What's to say that Behr can't reformulate a paint for the better?

I got out of the "Behr-phobia" when I started doing insurance resto work because the ins. co's required me to buy my products at the 3 big box stores. Very rarely was I able to finagle them into switching to SW or any of the others.

It may not be my paint of choice, but neither are some of the SW, BM, Kwal, Glidden, etc., products. If you're a pro, you should be able to apply any product with acceptable results, whether it's your personal choice or not.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

I love 1685. In fact I used some proclassic today and I don't think its near as good.
I pay about $22.50


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Bender said:


> I love 1685. In fact I used some proclassic today and I don't think its near as good.
> I pay about $22.50


Anytime you can get this kind of quality and Pro Classic is more than thirty, you have a winner. The only thing I don't like about KM is they close at like 2pm on Sat.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

I really don't care what JP does, I do think he has an agenda though. I really think he must be courting Behr paint company. You guy's remember when the Behr rep was on here trying to get us to use their products a while back.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Harry said:


> JP,
> I just used some last week. I bought one gallon that was a very dark burgundy color (forget the exact title) and another of a charcoal color (something hush) and both performed excellent. The hiding was superior, angular quality was great too.
> BTW, if you go to HD at 2PM and after 4PM, there is no waiting...lol.


Good to hear. I've had nothing but outstanding results using Ultra. Very pleased with it, and surprised. Previously heard so much negativity associated with the name. I joked with the paint contractor I did the review with, we laughed and made frivolous predictions and then were were like . We were both surprised. Maybe him more than me. He was a Duration Home fan and that is what we put Ultra up against. Actually the local SW did in the backroom. We took it from there. Never was a regular BEHR paint user in the past. 

The single thing about BEHR next to its solid coverage was how 15 people randomly rolled on a 4x8 sheet of drywall and you couldnt see one indication where one random roller patch started and ended. Eggshell. When SW told me that is what they did on the sample boards, I didnt actually believe them until we performed the same.

I went to HD first thing when all the contractors are rushing around. Was surprised how fast I was in and out. At least they had 2 people working in paints.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

johnpaint said:


> I really don't care what JP does, I do think he has an agenda though. I really think he must be courting Behr paint company. You guy's remember when the Behr rep was on here trying to get us to use their products a while back.


John think about that. That is not in my best interest and neither would it be for BEHR. There is a HUGE conflict there because of what I do, write about etc. Its a friend and foe. They have to take the good with the bad. Anyone I write about does. Love me one minute, hate me the next. Nature of doing what I do.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


> Good to hear. I've had nothing but outstanding results using Ultra. Very pleased with it, and surprised. Previously heard so much negativity associated with the name. I joked with the paint contractor I did the review with, we laughed and made frivolous predictions and then were were like . We were both surprised. Maybe him more than me. He was a Duration Home fan and that is what we put Ultra up against. Actually the local SW did in the backroom. We took it from there. Never was a regular BEHR paint user in the past.
> 
> The single thing about BEHR next to its solid coverage was how 15 people randomly rolled on a 4x8 sheet of drywall and you couldnt see one indication where one random roller patch started and ended. Eggshell. When SW told me that is what they did on the sample boards, I didnt actually believe them until we performed the same.
> 
> I went to HD first thing when all the contractors are rushing around. Was surprised how fast I was in and out. At least they had 2 people working in paints.


If you have time to play around with all this behr paint you can't be making a very good living JP. Why do you spend so much time with us when all you want to do is play around with homeowner paints and whatever?


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

johnpaint said:


> If you have time to play around with all this behr paint you can't be making a very good living JP. Why do you spend so much time with us when all you want to do is pay around with homeowner paints and whatever?


Not following you. BEHR Ultra isn't on the test bed anymore, its used on jobs. There is not a day I'm not testing something.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


> Not following you. BEHR Ultra isn't on the test bed anymore, its used on jobs. There is not a day I'm not testing something.


Your different JP.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

johnpaint said:


> Your different JP.


Its dedication.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


> Not following you. BEHR Ultra isn't on the test bed anymore, its used on jobs. There is not a day I'm not testing something.


JP just to make sure, what you call Behr Ultra Premium is the paint and primer in one right ?


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> JP just to make sure, what you call Behr Ultra Premium is the paint and primer in one right ?


Yes. hmm I dont believe they have another product with ultra in the name. I am not certain tho. Its Behr Premium Plus Ultra. The line under it is called Premium Plus.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


> Its dedication.


Down a dead end street.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

Ok I wasn't sure, I'm not familiar with their products, I'm going to try it on my next job see how it works


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

There has been a few guy's on here that like negative attention, your just one of them.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

johnpaint said:


> If you have time to play around with all this behr paint you can't be making a very good living JP. Why do you spend so much time with us when all you want to do is play around with homeowner paints and whatever?


So when I walk into my local SW stores and see all the sale cards, turn on the TV and see their commercials, I'm supposed to think that all those are meant for the professional contractor? John, in the past decade I've seen more and more HO's in my "contractor" stores....and have never seen them refuse to sell to a HO because they weren't a professional contractor. 

What is your definition of a "homeowner paint"? The stores that carry it? The advertising? The fact that the stores normally don't offer the contractor special pricing? The formulation of the paint? Just curious.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

"So when I walk into my local SW stores and see all the sale cards, turn on the TV and see their commercials, I'm supposed to think that all those are meant for the professional contractor? John, in the past decade I've seen more and more HO's in my "contractor" stores....and have never seen them refuse to sell to a HO because they weren't a professional contractor." 
That's true, but do they get (your) price on paint, if so you need to go somewhere else, right? SW is not a good store to compare to HD. If you have ever had a agreement with SW just wait until the next price change happens and they will reset you prices way beyond the price increase.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

johnpaint said:


> "So when I walk into my local SW stores and see all the sale cards, turn on the TV and see their commercials, I'm supposed to think that all those are meant for the professional contractor? John, in the past decade I've seen more and more HO's in my "contractor" stores....and have never seen them refuse to sell to a HO because they weren't a professional contractor."
> That's true, but do they get (your) price on paint, if so you need to go somewhere else, right? SW is not a good store to compare to HD. If you have ever had a agreement with SW just wait until the next price change happens and they will reset you prices way beyond the price increase.


Where should we buy paint john?


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

johnpaint said:


> There has been a few guy's on here that like negative attention, your just one of them.


No john... I like setting BS straight and there is lots of it floating around. I'm not sure why you care what results I get from the paints I use. It works for me. I'm not looking for acceptance in using Behr, just sharing my experience with it. Why do I need to keep explaining how PT works and its purpose? 

I think you got your negativity mixed up because I keep posting positive stuff.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

"No john... I like setting BS straigh"

Are you the new BS straightener upner guy. What's next JP? How about a review on Dutch Boy interior paint?


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

I don't know how others feel, but John Howell cracks me up. John I am with you 100%. LOL - Dutch boy paints. I remember Dutchboy paints when my folks were dragging me through the local Sears outlest back when I was a tot in the 70's. At least they knew how to namebrand to make a kid recognize their logo.


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## ligboozer (Oct 13, 2009)

johnpaint said:


> Anytime you can get this kind of quality and Pro Classic is more than thirty, you have a winner. The only thing I don't like about KM is they close at like 2pm on Sat.


 
The only issue I have had with 1685 is it does not touch up that easily. 

The stores around me still stay open to 4:30 or 5 on Sat, but are now closed on Sunday.

Sorry for the slight hijack.


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## tinkin (Jan 24, 2011)

johnpaint said:


> "No john... I like setting BS straigh"
> 
> Are you the new BS straightener upner guy. What's next JP? How about a review on Dutch Boy interior paint?


 
A cynic is someon who knows the price of everything, but the value of nothing. (Quote by - Oscar Wilde)

The cynic is one who never sees a good quality in a man and never fails to see a bad one. He is the human owl, vigilant in darkness and blind to light, mousing for vermin, and never seeing noble game. The cynic puts all human actions into two classes - openly bad and secretly bad. (Quote by - Henry Ward Beecher) 


Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack. (Quote by - General George S. Patton)

A cynic is a man who, when he smells flowers, looks around for a coffin. (Quote by - H. L. Mencken) 

Thanks JP for bringing "awareness" -

*“To be aware of a single shortcoming within oneself is more useful than to be aware of a thousand in somebody else. Rather than speaking badly about people and in ways that will produce friction and unrest in their lives, we should practice a purer perception of them, and when we speak of others, speak of their good qualities.”*




*“The worst thing one can do is not to try, to be aware of what one wants and not give in to it, to spend years in silent hurt wondering if something could have materialized - and never knowing”*


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I don't see how you guys can think it inconceivable that Behr's top of the line paint is actually good paint.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

straight_lines said:


> I don't see how you guys can think it inconceivable that Behr's top of the line paint is actually good paint.


Being on the store side...its hard not to believe its all junk. I get to hear from both Contractors and DIY'ers about the problems they've had, either from application, durability, the purchasing experience, and on and on. There are many reasons to dislike a product or a company.

Sure, I hear complaints about other stores and manufacturers, im sure I get complaints about my store and products too. Never do I hear the consistency of similar complaints that I do about the Box'es and their products.


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## tinkin (Jan 24, 2011)

NCPaint1 said:


> Being on the store side...its hard not to believe its all junk. I get to hear from both Contractors and DIY'ers about the problems they've had, either from application, durability, the purchasing experience, and on and on. There are many reasons to dislike a product or a company.
> 
> Sure, I hear complaints about other stores and manufacturers, im sure I get complaints about my store and products too. Never do I hear the consistency of similar complaints that I do about the Box'es and their products.


 
I'm sure the fact that Ben Moore does about 900 million in sales yearly and HD alone does about 2 Billion in paint sales might have something to do with it!:yes: 
Then on top of that, 95% of all paint failures are due to improper preparation or application. 
As with most things in life, its never as bad as you think or never as good.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

tinkin said:


> A cynic is someon who knows the price of everything, but the value of nothing. (Quote by - Oscar Wilde)
> 
> The cynic is one who never sees a good quality in a man and never fails to see a bad one. He is the human owl, vigilant in darkness and blind to light, mousing for vermin, and never seeing noble game. The cynic puts all human actions into two classes - openly bad and secretly bad. (Quote by - Henry Ward Beecher)
> 
> ...


Hang around and you will see there are two sides to the coin.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

If we are going to be going into HD for paint we might as well hit Sears, Truevalue and all the other stores that have lawn mowers.


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## Harry (Aug 4, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> I don't see how you guys can think it inconceivable that Behr's top of the line paint is actually good paint.


I started painting for profit in 1975 and I always used what worked best. As far as this Behr product goes...I just tried their paint and primer in one can paint (ULTRA) and the color I was using was a deep burgundy, tough to hide. This paint did it in 1.5 coats actually. 

I've used them all and know what gets the job done with quality and profit.

Funny thing about all of this is that..I'm sure that all the millions of people who use Behr paint aren't sitting there saying that it sucks...it just ain't happening.

And as far as housewives and homeowners go...don't put them all into the "they don't know any better" category. Most people do know better and they are well informed today. Many know more than some painters out there because they're not an island...they try other things.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

tinkin said:


> I'm sure the fact that Ben Moore does about 900 million in sales yearly and HD alone does about 2 Billion in paint sales might have something to do with it!:yes:
> Then on top of that, 95% of all paint failures are due to improper preparation or application.
> As with most things in life, its never as bad as you think or never as good.


 That is correct. I am just looking at it from the point of whats inside the can. I used the premium plus ultra a few weeks back, and the paint was nice. 

Colors covered very well, paint applied easy, and eggshell touched up flawlessly. Honestly whats not to like about a paint like that?

I still dislike having to deal with Home Depot to get the stuff, and would rather give my money to a local business like Andy's.


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## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

I recently used Behr ultra premi on a family members bedroom so I could test this paint to form my own opinion. Went from a dark burgundy to a light blue. Total coverage and hide of old color was obtained in one coat. Brushed and rolled out very nice and easy, dried quick, excellent coverage,and even sheen. Could have gotten away with one coat but applied two. The only thing I found that I did not like was that because of the thickness of the paint that it gummed up on the roller screen before the second coat. So a new roller screen was needed for second coat to avoid boogers getting on roller cover and walls. I was impressed with how well it covered and it's finish. I would definitely consider using it again.


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

no, not every paint sucks.

But this thread...suckfest...

It's seriously degrading the standards I've personally worked so hard to maintain in one of the most underrated trades. 

People, I can make WalMart's color place look great and I've done enough work to have credibility, but there is something about Sherwin Williams that appeals to my client base and sells contracts.

Behr creates a FALSE level playing field between us and HO's, why hire us when they LOVE going to Home Depot and are able to access the same materials? They'll buy the Behr, then the 6 pack of plastic bristle brushes, a roller pan kit, and 2 stir sticks...lol.
Never once have I witnessed a HO looking at home in a DEDICATED paint store like they do in a box store.
I like that.

I'm with John"old fart" Paint, and I guess the rest of you are house flip/apartment/rental/NC painters. 
If not, using behr on real paint contracts is foul business.

please leave my internet.


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## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

I agree with you Wise that a pro painter should be able to make most any paint look good. That is difference between the HO and the pro. Yes the HO may have access to the same materials and paint but they in most cases will not achieve the same quality as a pro no matter what paint they use. Behr ultra has impressive color coverage. This is a fact than is plain to see. That single fact is what appeals to the HO. This fact also appeals to me and I think color coverage would appeal to any pro as well. I did a bedroom re-paint last week using PPG Manor Hall going from a light blue to a light beige and it took four coats to get an acceptable coverage. 90% of the paint I use is PPG, but I have been noticing that since they bought out Porter that their products seem to be performing less than desirable. They have obviously been changing their formulas and they are not getting better, whereas Behr has been changing theirs and seem to be getting better. So I wonder if Behr was sold as a stand alone like PPG, Sherwin-Williams, BM, P&L, if they be more accepted by pro's?


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> I don't see how you guys can think it inconceivable that Behr's top of the line paint is actually good paint.


Yeah. What he said. What's the big deal? Each company has at least one great product.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I have used both Behr Product (Premium Plus and P.P. Ultra) helping out friends on jobs where they bought the paint. The Premium plus was no good in my opinion. The Ultra seemed fine. I only did the cutting in for the most part and let them roll it. While I will not deal with HD because of their lack of paint knowledge and service, I would rather use the Ultra than Promar 200, Super Spec, or those kinds of paint.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Lambrecht said:


> I recently used Behr ultra premi on a family members bedroom so I could test this paint to form my own opinion. Went from a dark burgundy to a light blue. Total coverage and hide of old color was obtained in one coat. Brushed and rolled out very nice and easy, dried quick, excellent coverage,and even sheen. Could have gotten away with one coat but applied two. The only thing I found that I did not like was that because of the thickness of the paint that it gummed up on the roller screen before the second coat. So a new roller screen was needed for second coat to avoid boogers getting on roller cover and walls. I was impressed with how well it covered and it's finish. I would definitely consider using it again.


Wondering if that was with flat? I can see that happening but never tried it with screens. 

Guess my whole point of the thread was about how well it covers even when reduced that much. Same deal you had, could have been an easy 1 coater if left stock but we apply 2.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

WisePainter said:


> no, not every paint sucks.
> 
> But this thread...suckfest...
> 
> ...


We apply what works not what peoples perception of what works. Taking advantage of HO ignorance? Sell them what they don't know and all is good? 

Glad that works for you wise. Risky business there. The fact that you used standards and sw in the same sentence speaks volumes.


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## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

jack pauhl said:


> Wondering if that was with flat? I can see that happening but never tried it with screens.
> 
> Guess my whole point of the thread was about how well it covers even when reduced that much. Same deal you had, could have been an easy 1 coater if left stock but we apply 2.


Eggshell, I wondered when I noticed it gum up on the screen if it would have done that if I cut it with a little water.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

That last post felt weird as I typed it parked in front of a sw exec house eating lunch.


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## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

jack pauhl said:


> That last post felt weird as I typed it parked in front of a sw exec house eating lunch.


Are you using Behr on his house?


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Lambrecht said:


> Are you using Behr on his house?


No specd sw. This is that big house the pc is having less than desired and expected results on. I can only sit back and roll my eyes at the predictable outcome each step of the way. Gets old and boring fast. We started this house last Sept.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Lambrecht said:


> Eggshell, I wondered when I noticed it gum up on the screen if it would have done that if I cut it with a little water.


 I think that is gonna happen in any paint that is primer/paint, they dry so fast its unavoidable unless you were to seal the bucket between coats.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> I think that is gonna happen in any paint that is primer/paint, they dry so fast its unavoidable unless you were to seal the bucket between coats.


Can't say I thought eg dried faster than anything else. Nothing to mention on that one. Flat dries fast but again. No side effects from it. Worked to my advantage.


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


> We apply what works not what peoples perception of what works.


I guess you aren't accustomed to educated clients that demand quality. No wonder you left the business for a coaching position, I would have also.



> Taking advantage of HO ignorance? Sell them what they don't know and all is good?
> Glad that works for you wise. Risky business there.


Actually I advertise the paint suppliers I will use upfront, and the final choice is made by the client. 
Behr is nowhere in my list.

try again...




> That fact that use used standards and sw in the same sentence speaks volumes.


What you are unable to grasp is that S.W. conducts business much in the same way as I do: If a bargain is what you seek, and quality is second...go elsewhere.
It's not your fault, you are a slave to your own system of quantity over quality.

Sitting in front of an S.W. executives house that you are profiting from, while insulting their product also makes you a hypocrite...not that I'm 100% convinced that is where you are, but what a powerful image you have created using the internet.

Pretty sure I could spend 5 minutes on the phone with my S.W. contacts (I used to work for them) and call yer bluff.


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

btw, paint is "APPLIED"...not "SPREAD"...as you posted in your thread title JP.

You might want to incorporate the proper paint verbiage before charging painters for your business advice.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

HD and Behr serves a purpose of convenience for a lot of people that use it. HD is the Walmart of home improvement and I don't see anything wrong with it, other than the uninformed sales people that offer poor advice. Yet who is really to blame? The ones seeking advice there or the ones giving it? 

It does not matter to me if you use Behr, I do not because of a few reasons and service and knowledge are at the top but if you like their service and their products and you are making money from it then no harm no foul. 

I honestly do not understand why people get worked up over this topic, I mean how does it effect you if another PC likes one brand over another?


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

This thread has veered from a thinning a product and assessing its capabilities to a strange and angry venting session on HD. I do not go there much, I know I hated their older paint lines and trashed them to HO's and other painters. I would rather buy my supplies at a local place, but if a HO specified Ultra(not the other older stuff) i dont think i would react any differently than if they spec'd Duration, or Fortis or whatever paint i have little experience with. I would say my piece on how I use certain products,(or just bump my price on the sly) and my price would have to increase if they wanted a product I was not familiar with. 
As for HD, who cares? The sky has not fallen since they have apparently spent a massive amount of money and time developing a good product. Its like that guy I know that wont use anything but BM. Ever. Wont even look at anything else. I think he's missing out on some other great products that may be better in certain situations. Moving on please....:yes:


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I think one of the reasons that a lot of us are anti-Behr and HD are that we are small businesses. We have seen local independent hardware and paint stores go out of business and do not like what we are seeing. HD is one cause of this problem.

I personally do not care for SW for some of the same reasons. They are buying up lots of other companies, stores are not independent and in the end I think it will result in less choice for us contractors.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

DeanV said:


> I think one of the reasons that a lot of us are anti-Behr and HD are that we are small businesses. We have seen local independent hardware and paint stores go out of business and do not like what we are seeing. HD is one cause of this problem.



The box stores are here, and most likely wont be going anywhere anytime soon. There is nothing we can do about it. Do they hurt my business? Sure. Do I adapt and survive? Absolutely. You could mirror the box stores to us store owners as a "lowballer" is to your company. They're annoying sure, if they're making a big impact on your business...re-evaluate your business plan, and change who you are marketing to...find a way to stand out. :thumbsup:


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

I definitely hear that. I avoid chains in general. Wal mart, HD, Blowes, McD's all of them. I really depend on my relationship with 2 local paint stores. I know I can call them and they will bend over backwards to help me when I drop the ball. Plus, they're kind of my social life, sad to say. I guess on this thread some people needed to vent about stuff.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Workaholic said:


> HD and Behr serves a purpose of convenience for a lot of people that use it. HD is the Walmart of home improvement and I don't see anything wrong with it, other than the uninformed sales people that offer poor advice. Yet who is really to blame? The ones seeking advice there or the ones giving it?
> 
> It does not matter to me if you use Behr, I do not because of a few reasons and service and knowledge are at the top but if you like their service and their products and you are making money from it then no harm no foul.
> 
> I honestly do not understand why people get worked up over this topic, I mean how does it effect you if another PC likes one brand over another?


Sean, you know that every Behr thread turns to this. Add any comment by JP, for or against, and it's like putting out a fire with gasoline for a few members here.

Besides, it gives Wise a chance to reply with some helpful and useful replies whilst beating on his chest and reminding us how wonderful he is. LOL :thumbup: My son was just like that.....when he was 4 or 5.:whistling2:


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Wolfgang said:


> Sean, you know that every Behr thread turns to this. Add any comment by JP, for or against, and it's like putting out a fire with gasoline for a few members here.
> 
> Besides, it gives Wise a chance to reply with some helpful and useful replies whilst beating on his chest and reminding us how wonderful he is. LOL :thumbup: My son was just like that.....when he was 4 or 5.:whistling2:


I know. My senses have been numbed to it all especially Wise's chest thumping.


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

Wolfgang said:


> Sean, you know that every Behr thread turns to this. Add any comment by JP, for or against, and it's like putting out a fire with gasoline for a few members here.
> 
> Besides, it gives Wise a chance to reply with some helpful and useful replies whilst beating on his chest and reminding us how wonderful he is. LOL :thumbup: My son was just like that.....when he was 4 or 5.:whistling2:


useful and helpful replies with "colorful emphasis" to express my wonderfulosity.

The last time I was propositioned with Behr was Florida. 
The lift guy was loading my JLG and asked if I did sidework, apparently he'd never seen an owner operator painter...I learned most Florida bosses will force their guys to die in the heat while they worm away in the office.
Anyway, I explained and he mentioned he'd already bought Behr for his exterior.
I kindly passed.

he wanted a hungry employee to lowball, and use Behr...

I have found that clients who want Behr really don't know much about why they actually want it.
My theory is that much like WalMart you will go in to buy milk, and walk out with a television, socks, and a lawnmower.
People's lives are too busy to drive all over for seperate items.

This does not through high sales denote "high quality", but convenience.
Behr got LUCKY when HD gobbled them up for no doubt an incredibly undervalued price.

no special magic, just purchasing power.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

The reason so many want Behr or Valspar is because they see so many commercials for them. Its all about exposure, and I would say they run 10x as much as SWP does here where I live. 

I don't remember seeing a BM, ICI, or PPG commercial ever.


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## Harry (Aug 4, 2008)

WisePainter said:


> useful and helpful replies with "colorful emphasis" to express my wonderfulosity.
> 
> The last time I was propositioned with Behr was Florida.
> The lift guy was loading my JLG and asked if I did sidework, apparently he'd never seen an owner operator painter...I learned most Florida bosses will force their guys to die in the heat while they worm away in the office.
> ...



I don't buy that. I do, for simple purchases but I don't see paint being an impulse item..at all. I believe that the people who buy BEHR are informed people who made a decision...


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Years ago I did a 6 or 7k sf interior, (cant remember the exact # - old age maybe?) with Behr, as that is what the HO insisted on. Adjusted my prices accordingly and made some damn good money on the job, for about the same amount of labor. Otherwise, I could've been stubborn and lost out on a nice bank deposit. Foolish not to do it, as the HO turned out to be a great source of well paying referrals.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

straight_lines said:


> don't remember seeing a BM, ICI, or PPG commercial ever.


They're out there, you're just watching the wrong channels.  "Target market" approach...not the shotgun blast and hope you hit something.


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

I guess I achieved my targeted marketing goals of avoiding BEHR and the type of clients who would request it...aaaaaaaand (somehow)make a decent living too.
Thankfully I have you guys around to show me how the other half live...



you guys are neat!


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

I haven't used enough behr int. to really judge it, but I do think their ext. is garbage.

Something to think about though-
Their vinyl windows, lumber, roofing materials, cabinets, power tools and tile is mostly low end junk. 
What makes you think the paint is any different?


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

Bender said:


> I haven't used enough behr int. to really judge it, but I do think their ext. is garbage.
> 
> Something to think about though-
> Their vinyl windows, lumber, roofing materials, cabinets, power tools and tile is mostly low end junk.
> ...


You're 100% spot on but who cares about common sense when you're putting an extra $3.50 per gallon back into pocket by becoming a "saavy" contractor?

JP has shown me that I will be able to eat fast food for lunch using his system!


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

kdpaint said:


> This thread has veered from a thinning a product and assessing its capabilities to a strange and angry venting session on HD. I do not go there much, I know I hated their older paint lines and trashed them to HO's and other painters. I would rather buy my supplies at a local place, but if a HO specified Ultra(not the other older stuff) i dont think i would react any differently than if they spec'd Duration, or Fortis or whatever paint i have little experience with. I would say my piece on how I use certain products,(or just bump my price on the sly) and my price would have to increase if they wanted a product I was not familiar with.
> As for HD, who cares? The sky has not fallen since they have apparently spent a massive amount of money and time developing a good product. Its like that guy I know that wont use anything but BM. Ever. Wont even look at anything else. I think he's missing out on some other great products that may be better in certain situations. Moving on please....:yes:


Welcome to my world. My BEHR threads have a unique flavoring and they are jam packed with a wide variety of unrelated information making them purely unique. lol 

I'm with you on that comment "Its like that guy I know that wont use anything but BM. Ever. Wont even look at anything else." Painting from a pallet of variety opens many new possibilities.


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## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

Painting products are like food, you could eat the same exact meals every day or you could venture out and try something new that may actually turn out to be pretty good. Trying different brands of paint is no different than trying different brands of caulking or tools. How will you really know until you try them for yourself.


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

Lambrecht said:


> Painting products are like food, you could eat the same exact meals every day or you could venture out and try something new that may actually turn out to be pretty good. Trying different brands of paint is no different than trying different brands of caulking or tools. How will you really know until you try them for yourself.


4- 30,000 sq. ft. ground up Home Depots was enough.

the dryfall used on the decks was S.W. btw, alkyd an wb.

some people like "4 buck chuck" I preffer merlot.


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## tinkin (Jan 24, 2011)

WisePainter said:


> useful and helpful replies with "colorful emphasis" to express my wonderfulosity.
> 
> The last time I was propositioned with Behr was Florida.
> The lift guy was loading my JLG and asked if I did sidework, apparently he'd never seen an owner operator painter...I learned most Florida bosses will force their guys to die in the heat while they worm away in the office.
> ...


 
http://www.behr.com/dsm-ext/v/index...toid=4d4bb5141684c110VgnVCM1000006b0910acRCRD

Another misnomer about Behr, it is NOT owned by HD, I'm sure they wish they did! Two companies doing business together, thats all. This is all information available on the internet, does anyone ever leave this site??:no:


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

tinkin said:


> http://www.behr.com/dsm-ext/v/index...toid=4d4bb5141684c110VgnVCM1000006b0910acRCRD
> 
> Another misnomer about Behr, it is NOT owned by HD, I'm sure they wish they did! Two companies doing business together, thats all. This is all information available on the internet, does anyone ever leave this site??:no:


I know they didn't technically "buy" BEHR, but you better believe if the BEHR execs. enjoy their way of life...they purchase BULK and set the price.

and how I waste my life is of no concern of yours...


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

DeanV said:


> I think one of the reasons that a lot of us are anti-Behr and HD are that we are small businesses. We have seen local independent hardware and paint stores go out of business and do not like what we are seeing. HD is one cause of this problem.
> 
> I personally do not care for SW for some of the same reasons. They are buying up lots of other companies, stores are not independent and in the end I think it will result in less choice for us contractors.


Thanks so Much Dean, this is it in a nut shell for me, even the thing with SW. Its bad enough that we give so much of our money to buy tools from these people that don't do anything for the local economy,now you have a painter on here that wants up to buy our paint from them. If they want my money they need their own store.
OK I might buy paint from these guy's if they played fair, but they don't have to pay for a store and all that comes with it, no there in the middle of giant warehouse with low over head.


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## tinkin (Jan 24, 2011)

WisePainter said:


> I know they didn't technically "buy" BEHR, but you better believe if the BEHR execs. enjoy their way of life...they purchase BULK and set the price.
> 
> and how I waste my life is of no concern of yours...


You lost me on that one brother!:blink:


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Besides the last post, it's just down right embarrassing to go in there for paint. I will let all you guy's do it though,I guess it doesn't matter to most.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

I'm in the who cares camp. 

What do I think of behr? Haven't used enough lately to have much of an opinion. 

I do think that Behr and Valspar are doing good in sales because of commercials, and the paint sales staff are geared towards diy or its at least perceived that way. I see tons of beher commercials and the slogan "#1 rated" but doesn't say who rated it number one. And then the convenience. Go in and get some shelving and paint, and a flashlight all in the same place, next to the mall where I need to shop for clothes too.

I don't like the box stores as much because it takes away from the local economy, although, it does create jobs as well, and haven't analyzed the overall net economic gain/loss from it.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

johnpaint said:


> Besides the last post, it's just down right embarrassing to go in there for paint. I will let all you guy's do it though,I guess it doesn't matter to most.


You would be embarrassed to go into HD to buy a gallon of zinsser coverstain or some wooster covers?

Here is me at a paint store (a real one)... which of these two products are thinner? Then crickets.... then... nevermind I'll look it up myself. 

or

Can you scrape this bonding primer off with a coin over kitchen cabinets?  Nevermind, can you comp me a gallon, then Ill give you the answer.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


> You would be embarrassed to go into HD to buy a gallon of zinsser coverstain or some wooster covers?
> 
> Here is me at a paint store (a real one)... which of these two products are thinner? Then crickets.... then... nevermind I'll look it up myself.
> 
> ...


Like I said Jackie, you can give your money to those guy's if you want.I would give them a try if they had their own store like I said . 
How about some more reviews on products I will never use like always.Most of the new painters on here would love to here that.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Sure. No problem.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

*"JP. You know how much dirt is going to be flung your way for this post?"*

This was the first sentence of the first reply to your original post. Nine pages later would it be profound?


* 


*


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

nuff said


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Just to save JP the reply, that stuff is the Premium Plus. He used the Premium Plus Ultra.


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## tinkin (Jan 24, 2011)

chrisn said:


> nuff said


Thats an awesome pic, let me guess. The deep base colors you didn't like because they didn't cover, thats because you didn't use the "tinted primer formula" in the #75 Enamel Undercoater first. 

The Ultra Pure Whites you didn't like because they didn't cover. Thats because anyone who uses UPW on trim is NEVER going to get good hide. It's a base to mix light colors on and not recommended to be used straight on the surface. It should have been tinted into the color "White" to get excellent hide on trim. 

But its not your fault that you don't know how to use Behr properly, I'm sure no one at the HD told you what you needed to be successful with the product, and I'm sure you didn't ask. :no:


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

tinkin said:


> But its not your fault that you don't know how to use Behr properly, I'm sure no one at the HD told you what you needed to be successful with the product, and I'm sure you didn't ask. :no:


Yeah, Chrisn...ask next time!

How can the folks at HD help you, if you don't ask?


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## Rob (Aug 9, 2009)

tinkin said:


> Thats an awesome pic, let me guess. The deep base colors you didn't like because they didn't cover, thats because you didn't use the "tinted primer formula" in the #75 Enamel Undercoater first.
> 
> The Ultra Pure Whites you didn't like because they didn't cover. Thats because anyone who uses UPW on trim is NEVER going to get good hide. It's a base to mix light colors on and not recommended to be used straight on the surface. It should have been tinted into the color "White" to get excellent hide on trim.
> 
> But its not your fault that you don't know how to use Behr properly, I'm sure no one at the HD told you what you needed to be successful with the product, and I'm sure you didn't ask. :no:


That is actually my picture, (Chrisn is welcome to use it anytime).
Yes I got no help from the teeny bopper at HD, but I don't go there for paint advice. I tried the Behr because the customer requested it. In the middle of the job I switched to SW because of several issues, which were resolved by switching. There is a thread here somewhere.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

Rob said:


> That is actually my picture, (Chrisn is welcome to use it anytime).
> Yes I got no help from the teeny bopper at HD, I tried the Behr because the customer requested it. In the middle of the job I switched to SW because of several issues, which were resolved by switching. There is a thread here somewhere.


What issues were you having using Behr Rob ? I 've had issues using SW


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## Rob (Aug 9, 2009)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> What issues were you having using Behr Rob ? I 've had issues using SW


It didn't cover, to be fair, it was a tough color. I didn't like the way it sprayed, but that could have been my problem, just a learning curve. It seemed to thin to me.


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

Rob said:


> Yes I got no help from the teeny bopper at HD, but I don't go there for paint advice. I tried the Behr because the customer requested it.





tinkin said:


> But its not your fault that you don't know how to use Behr properly, I'm sure no one at the HD told you what you needed to be successful with the product, and I'm sure you didn't ask. :no:


Asking the paint-desk-person at HD..."How do I use Behr properly, so I can be successful with the product?"

will get you $10 from me...sent by mail...the day after you post the video of it here.

*must be at least 1 Suzie Homemaker in line with you
*must be in company whites
*void where/if prohibited by law


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

Here


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## dvp (Jun 21, 2010)

i hope everybody switches to behr. then ill be able to beat every other contractor in the country on price and quality by using almost anything else.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

If I based my thoughts and product reviews off a single use of any product I would not be providing any real information about the product... only a first impression opinion base off my inexperience with the product. 

It takes months, sometimes over a year before I feel there is enough history behind a product to speak with a level of certainty.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Read my signature. 

That is precisely my conclusion from years of painting with countless paints and products. I wish there was a single paint that would never fail over whatever I put it on. 

It would be foolish of me to say I've never had a product I use not fail me ever, hence my signature.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

RCP said:


> Here


Was that the paint and primer in one?


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

Just curious, you guys never remove hardware from doors when repainting?


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


> If I based my thoughts and product reviews off a single use of any product I would not be providing any real information about the product... only a first impression opinion base off my inexperience with the product.
> 
> It takes months, sometimes over a year before I feel there is enough history behind a product to speak with a level of certainty.



My guess is that 99% of the members here are able to determine a products worth within 5 gallons.


btw, the 1% is you JP.


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

tinkin said:


> Thats an awesome pic, let me guess. The deep base colors you didn't like because they didn't cover, thats because you didn't use the "tinted primer formula" in the #75 Enamel Undercoater first.
> 
> The Ultra Pure Whites you didn't like because they didn't cover. Thats because anyone who uses UPW on trim is NEVER going to get good hide. It's a base to mix light colors on and not recommended to be used straight on the surface. It should have been tinted into the color "White" to get excellent hide on trim.
> 
> But its not your fault that you don't know how to use Behr properly, I'm sure no one at the HD told you what you needed to be successful with the product, and I'm sure you didn't ask. :no:



I'm sure that's it...

:no:


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Sears WeatherBeater is next. I hear it's good paint.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

johnpaint said:


> Sears WeatherBeater is next. I hear it's good paint.


Thats actually a SW product, or at least it was...might be ICI now ( contracts and such ) I believe that WeatherBeater was A-100....dont quote me though


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


> Read my signature


gosh, if only I had thought of that first I would never have doubted your credentials...

like I asked before and you avoided answering:Is that the opinion of a trusted National painting authority, or just fancy typing?

your attempt to pose your sigline as a reason to regard you as an authority is fail, and for you to direct our attention to it as if it isn't plainly visible is a bigger fail.

you are clearly trolling at this point.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

WisePainter said:


> gosh, if only I had thought of that first I would never have doubted your credentials...
> 
> like I asked before and you avoided answering:Is that the opinion of a trusted National painting authority, or just fancy typing?
> 
> ...


wise. I can't keep explaining things to you. I speak English and I'm very clear with my posts. I'm a paint contractor sharing my experience with products like any other member of this forum. Sorry that wasn't clear.


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## vandy (Apr 22, 2010)

you two are unbelievable.
you should make a pact to never comment on eachothers posts....ever.


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## tinkin (Jan 24, 2011)

WisePainter said:


> I'm sure that's it...
> 
> :no:


Actually it was it, he said he never asked for advice at HD. Which is fine, he's not complaining about it. 
If I have a question about a product and don't feel the old guy at the HD paint desk can help, I call the 800 number thats on top of every Behr Paint can and talk to the Tech Service to get the right answers. It's amazing how well a product works when you follow the manufacturers recommendations! Imagine that!!:yes:


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Here is the deal:

JP: Please put Wise on your ignore list.

Wise: Please put JP on your ignore list.

I think that should be enough to salvage future threads like this, or at least 80% of the thread.


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

JP you were a punching bag when I got here...

now I see why.

at least Tim and sev were smart enough to stop posting...


ignore is for members who can't handle their biz.


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## Nathan (Mar 28, 2007)

This is real simple guys. If you have something you need to say specifically to the other person send that person an PM or email. The rest of us don't need to read the bickering.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

im gonna attempt to be nice about this but sometimes thats hard for me so i apologize in advance:innocent:........... now here's my 2 cents and some change ..................I agree with JACK and find noting wrong with Behr ''wall'' paint as long as you buy their best stuff and know what your doing but I wont use Behr for trim, it just doesn't flow enough for me and goes on like glue and I usually run through a full gallon sometimes more when I do trim work so I only use F&H great impressions with a few hits of black and some ''AQUATROL''.............now I think for my door video im gonna use Behr over white primer and then use my 10 yr old duster to paint it in under 2:00 ......maybe then people will understand its NOT the PAINT or the BRUSH its the ''PAINTER''.........and for the record I use M.A.B and F&H but if the HO'er is buying it, ill use ANYTHING. now heres a tip for getting paint to cover........ 2 hits, first one puts the paint on and the 2nd one takes just enough off. anything more and your playing with the paint and your not gonna make any money ''PLAYING''. i see guys all the time going over and over the same spot, WHY GO OVER IT SO MANY TIMES ?? DEFINITION OF INSANITY IS TO REPEAT THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER WITH SAME RESULTS...DO YOU THINK SOMETHING IS GONNA CHANGE IF YOU POKE AT THE TRIM A FEW MORE TIMES? LOL.. 


heres a classic video of a guy ''playing'' watch how many times he goes over the same part, HELLO if you go any slower you'll be in REVERSE ....... his video is over 7 mins and he never even finishes the door...... im not even gonna get into the fact that hes not even going through the steps correctly........panels FIRST, this clown is painting from top to bottom and i can only imagine the lap marks on his work.. i bet the door is dry by the time hes done  



"http://www.youtube.com/embed/12odICjAnQc"


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

I like the other mods and the administrator am asking you guys to please keep your insulting comments to yourself. If you absolutely can not then save them for a PM. I thought we were past this point but please read or reread this announcement.
http://www.painttalk.com/f2/announcements/


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

is it ok that i insulted that bum on the youtube video??? hes not a member here so i figured it would be ok..........watch him actually be a member here lol that would be interesting :yes:


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## JoseyWales (Jan 8, 2011)

Ole34 said:


> im gonna attempt to be nice about this but sometimes thats hard for me so i apologize in advance:innocent:........... now here's my 2 cents and some change ..................I agree with JACK and find noting wrong with Behr ''wall'' paint as long as you buy their best stuff and know what your doing but I wont use Behr for trim, it just doesn't flow enough for me and goes on like glue and I usually run through a full gallon sometimes more when I do trim work so I only use F&H great impressions with a few hits of black and some ''AQUATROL''.............now I think for my door video im gonna use Behr over white primer and then use my 10 yr old duster to paint it in under 2:00 ......maybe then people will understand its NOT the PAINT or the BRUSH its the ''PAINTER''.........and for the record I use M.A.B and F&H but if the HO'er is buying it, ill use ANYTHING. now heres a tip for getting paint to cover........ 2 hits, first one puts the paint on and the 2nd one takes just enough off. anything more and your playing with the paint and your not gonna make any money ''PLAYING''. i see guys all the time going over and over the same spot, WHY GO OVER IT SO MANY TIMES ?? DEFINITION OF INSANITY IS TO REPEAT THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER WITH SAME RESULTS...DO YOU THINK SOMETHING IS GONNA CHANGE IF YOU POKE AT THE TRIM A FEW MORE TIMES? LOL..
> 
> 
> Yeah frustrating to watch.I've always started trim and doors at the bottom and work up.Why work against gravity?It's easier to back brush going downward.
> ...


:no:Yeah frustrating to watch.I've always started trim and doors at the bottom and work up.Why work against gravity?It's easier to back brush going downward.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

JoseyWales said:


> :no:Yeah frustrating to watch.I've always started trim and doors at the bottom and work up.Why work against gravity?It's easier to back brush going downward.


 
yeah i see what your saying but what i meant by ''top to bottom'' is that hes not doing the panels first, hes doing the entire door top to bottom......... i see no problem with starting a door on the bottom if you do the panels first i guess............that guy on the video absolutely kills me. so many things wrong and he's posting an instructional video???


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

johnpaint said:


> Sears WeatherBeater is next. I hear it's good paint.


 I had a homeowner hand me a can of truevalue paint I think? it had urethane resins in the exterior latex - I have to admit I was pretty impressed by it.


----------



## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

hey back in the day SEARS made some of the best paint around ...........used to be able to get a 12g shotgun and gallon of paint at the same time lol


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

plainpainter said:


> I had a homeowner hand me a can of truevalue paint I think? it had urethane resins in the exterior latex - I have to admit I was pretty impressed by it.


Dan,

When I was remodeling the first floor, I stopped at a vertical post. On the undone side I applied some real cheap flat True-Value interior paint over some cheap sh*t vinyl wallpaper (OK, I admit it), thinking I was going to tear those walls out in a year or two. That was twelve years ago. The paint still looks OK. 

Only on my own home would I apply known crap.


----------



## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

I think Wise is going for his yearly cabin fever ban :whistling2: Seriously Wise, you do need to give it a break....one of these times the ban will be permanent.


----------



## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Wolfgang said:


> I think Wise is going for his yearly cabin fever ban :whistling2: Seriously Wise, you do need to give it a break....one of these times the ban will be permanent.


One could only wish. Seems his post are only to attack. Which frankly is what makes a forum so unattractive. 

Ver said it best, when I too needed to hear it. 
"It doesn't have to be this way" 
Something like that.


----------



## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

tinkin said:


> Thats an awesome pic, let me guess. The deep base colors you didn't like because they didn't cover, thats because you didn't use the "tinted primer formula" in the #75 Enamel Undercoater first.
> 
> The Ultra Pure Whites you didn't like because they didn't cover. Thats because anyone who uses UPW on trim is NEVER going to get good hide. It's a base to mix light colors on and not recommended to be used straight on the surface. It should have been tinted into the color "White" to get excellent hide on trim.
> 
> But its not your fault that you don't know how to use Behr properly, I'm sure no one at the HD told you what you needed to be successful with the product, and I'm sure you didn't ask. :no:


No comment:blink::blink::blink::blink::blink::blink::blink:


----------



## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

ewingpainting.net said:


> One could only wish. Seems his post are only to attack. Which frankly is what makes a forum so unattractive.
> 
> Ver said it best, when I too needed to hear it.
> "It doesn't have to be this way"
> Something like that.


Every once in a while, VP does post a little gem of his own.:yes:


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Wolfgang said:


> Every once in a while, VP does post a little gem of his own.:yes:


I just flushed a "gem" down the toilet...too bad I couldn't flush this thread along with it.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> I just flushed a "gem" down the toilet...too bad I couldn't flush this thread along with it.


Yeah but you made it hit 200 posts.:notworthy:


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## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

NCPaint1 said:


> I just flushed a "gem" down the toilet...too bad I couldn't flush this thread along with it.


I'm just glad you didn't post a pic.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

You know I was a little hard on JP, I think he means well, but we all know that there are 24 hours in a day. I just can't figure out how anyone can make a living by being a solo painter kind of guy and doing all this in depth studies on painting procedures. I just know what it takes for me to make a living. I just would not have time to do all this.


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

johnpaint said:


> You know I was a little hard on JP, I think he means well, but we all know that there are 24 hours in a day. I just can't figure out how anyone can make a living by being a solo painter kind of guy and doing all this in depth studies on painting procedures. I just know what it takes for me to make a living. I just would not have time to do all this.


I didn't read through all of this.

I appreciate that JP has the balls to put a lot of stuff 'out there' for everyone to take their pock shots at him. 

Keep doing what your doing JP, I don't always agree, but who cares. Not many have taken the crap you have and not stooped to throwing mud around. 

Behr or no Behr.....


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

johnpaint said:


> You know I was a little hard on JP, I think he means well, but we all know that there are 24 hours in a day. I just can't figure out how anyone can make a living by being a solo painter kind of guy and doing all this in depth studies on painting procedures. I just know what it takes for me to make a living. I just would not have time to do all this.


 The actual testing and documentation would be the easy part. How long does it take to do a 2 minute video of you painting a wall? The work I would think goes in after he gets home and puts all that together on his site.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

I'm very efficient. All I really talk about. Product selection frees up time.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

johnpaint said:


> You know I was a little hard on JP, I think he means well, but we all know that there are 24 hours in a day. I just can't figure out how anyone can make a living by being a solo painter kind of guy and doing all this in depth studies on painting procedures. I just know what it takes for me to make a living. I just would not have time to do all this.


I think what some of the discord may arise from is how you look at what Jack does. I felt the same way when I first started reading his posts. One day I just decided to look at Jack's post without any sort of pre-conceived derogatory notions on my part, and saw things differently.

Jack obviously enjoys what he does and how he does it. And, obviously again, he puts alot of time into it. What Jack decides to do with his time, is entirely up to him. Some of what he posts may well be second hand information to many of us, but then there are probably many that will find it informative. I don't always agree with Jack, but I will say this; About a year ago Jack and I exchanged some PM's and I found him to be a true gentleman, humble, yet self-assured, and I enjoyed our exchanges.

Jack doesn't mind taking products that many of us would question, and giving his personal reviews on. He knows full well he will get flamed on some of them, yet doesn't mind putting it out there for all to read. He may strike many here as a self-proclaimed know-it-all, but I can assure you that isn't the case. If many would put the time into their companies what Jack does with his, you may just be surprised.

If Jack posts something you can use, use it. If not, let it go. But to characterize him as some sort of nut-job just isn't right. We all utilize what works best for us, whether it be product, technique, or legitimate business practices. Reading a review, watching a vid, that we disagree with, really causes no harm when you think about it.


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

That was really good, Wolf.
I feel kinda like a jackass...even though I never really gave JP any grief (that I can recall anyhow).

I'm pretty new here, and still have a lot of on-line personas to figure out.

Maybe I misread JP's

Maybe


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Thanks wolf. I guess I dont look at painting as a job anymore. I think its gone far beyond that for me.

In general... couple things, because after all, this is getting to know one another on PT. 

I am no know-it-all. I may come across that way because I do not open my mouth unless I know real well what I am talking about. (It's a wicked evil if you know what I mean.) If I dont know, I make that known too. If I think a product is great, I have countless reasons for that statement and it was not concluded in a day spreading 5 gallons of paint or a few hours with a product. If I think a product is lousy, I found more than the avearge tolereance of product shortcomings in comparison to something better and benchmarked and I am fully capable and willing to back my findings with a high degree of certainty. 

Based on experiences working with PC's, it might be best not to assume its understood what I mean by being efficient. I base this off the striking similarities between what I read here and what I experience working with other painters. You can work with me all day long and barely go home with a glimplse of what I mean by efficient. This is an area while extremely important to me, I can not begin to type it to any degree of understanding. I am a fast painter but that is the least of what makes me efficient. There is no other single area I focus more of my time. 

If anyone thinks the attention to detail I put into my work is nuts, so be it. Its profitable. Its what allows me to have certainty in my replies, posts, blog or making recommendations to other PC's locally. If anyone disagrees, I will be happy to explain anything in more detail, perhaps the bigger picture isnt clear. If you want to agree to disagree, thats fine too. Being efficient is what allows me to do jobs in a fraction of time vs the competition. (see example below) I am fortunate to witness this almost daily. It's what allows my 'worth' to be substantially high and I am convinced some people do not fully understand this. See example below.


Example: This house below was painted the wrong color but no fault of the PC and now they want to change it without breaking the bank. I talk up and down about how I like BEHR and why. Here is a perfect example. Ironic it happened today.

This PC is cutting a 2400 sq ft house twice for coverage and rolling once. 2 coats was not an option. The house has a 16' foyer too. I am not going to say what paint he used but I will say this could have been a 1 cut, 1 roll scenario to change this color based on my experience with BEHR. (BEHR Ultra is not sold as a 1 coat paint solution though), I just like products that exceed my expectations. 

Do you pay guys to cut this house twice or pay few bucks more for paint to give the HO what she wants? He was paid to do it once. Surprise! Could I have convinced him to use BEHR? Nope, cause he has the same attitude as many others have. Like I mentioned, I dont open my mouth unless I know what I'm talking about but I realize I cant convince anyone. Perfect example. I do not know it all but I do know BEHR would have done this job easy. Please dont think I dont understand how my posts are perceived to some here. I get that.

I've learned that rearranging common steps known to all of us and mixing them with various systems paired with different product - can produce substantially different results. We all cut and roll right?

Apparently I am using BEHR a bit more than some here. The purpose of the OP was to show ample coverage was obtained by reducing BEHR Ultra flat, thats it. 13 pages later (now chopped to 11).


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Wolfgang said:


> I think what some of the discord may arise from is how you look at what Jack does. I felt the same way when I first started reading his posts. One day I just decided to look at Jack's post without any sort of pre-conceived derogatory notions on my part, and saw things differently.
> 
> Jack obviously enjoys what he does and how he does it. And, obviously again, he puts alot of time into it. What Jack decides to do with his time, is entirely up to him. Some of what he posts may well be second hand information to many of us, but then there are probably many that will find it informative. I don't always agree with Jack, but I will say this; About a year ago Jack and I exchanged some PM's and I found him to be a true gentleman, humble, yet self-assured, and I enjoyed our exchanges.
> 
> ...


I didn't say he was a nut job, I just think he wants us to view him as a painting guru but at the same time he is pushing HD and Behr paint in the same breath.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

johnpaint said:


> I didn't say he was a nut job, I just think he wants us to view him as a painting guru but at the same time he is pushing HD and Behr paint in the same breath.


I'm fair john, I talk a lot about all the products I find to be good. I'm just putting it out there. If someone besides me posted all of what Ive posted about Behr... I would find it interesting to know. Because its new and not talked about much. 

We can talk about Purdys new mini rollers if you want. They are similar to Woosters jumbo koters. Mini cages to do away with all the hot dog on a stick mini rollers found at SW. We can talk about how a SW employee impressed me today. 

Just saying... anything new is interesting to me.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

John, I wasn't referring to you when I wrote that, I just quoted your post as an intro. It's all good my friend. However, Jack has tested and reviewed more than just Behr products, and you know as well as I do, there are worse paints out there on the market. Maybe part of it is that we are inundated with Behr/HD commercials that are geared to the HO, that we just begin to tire of it. There's a reason why some people do their own painting and others hire pros.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Those cuts around the outlets are killin' me:blink:


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


> I'm fair john, I talk a lot about all the products I find to be good. I'm just putting it out there. If someone besides me posted all of what Ive posted about Behr... I would find it interesting to know. Because its new and not talked about much.
> 
> We can talk about Purdys new mini rollers if you want. They are similar to Woosters jumbo koters. Mini cages to do away with all the hot dog on a stick mini rollers found at SW. We can talk about how a SW employee impressed me today.
> 
> Just saying... anything new is interesting to me.


Wouldn't mind reading a comparison from you on SW200 eggshell versus Valspar Contractor 2000 eggshell. I did one for Valspar and would be curious as to your take on it. I used both the light base and dark base BTW.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Bender said:


> Those cuts around the outlets are killin' me:blink:


haha I dont cut those at all. The PC cuts them twice. I dont bother to say anything. Its obviously a ton of wasted time.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Wolfgang said:


> Wouldn't mind reading a comparison from you on SW200 eggshell versus Valspar Contractor 2000 eggshell. I did one for Valspar and would be curious as to your take on it. I used both the light base and dark base BTW.


Cool. I'll grab them this weekend. Both same color? Any specific color? I am familiar with 200 eg and lo eg. Lo eg isnt bad but found the Glidden 150 semi-matte has better price, hide, sheen uniformity and touchup direct over bare drywall.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


> Thanks wolf. I guess I dont look at painting as a job anymore. I think its gone far beyond that for me.
> 
> In general... couple things, because after all, this is getting to know one another on PT.
> 
> ...


I just want to know one thing. did you cut that room?


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Well said P&H and Wolfie! :thumbsup:

Jack - Keep on being Jack.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Looks like I was slow to respond. If you are following pc's like this now I know why you feel you are so good. lol


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Jack is Jack


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

johnpaint said:


> I just want to know one thing. did you cut that room?


Are you serious?! haha No john. I cut like this.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


> Are you serious?! haha No john. I cut like this.


Sorry but that's just as bad, any more?How you going to roll down to that?


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

johnpaint said:


> Sorry but that's just as bad, any more?How you going to roll down to that?


I roll tight. The roller covers almost all of it. 1/4" maybe missed?


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

You just did that, didn't ya?


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


> I roll tight. The roller covers almost all of it. 1/4" maybe missed?


Just wonder does your HD paint usually flash on you with this color? Is that why you roll all the way to the first floor of a 3 story building?


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

I am curious to know if Jack thinks taping these horizontal edges on baseboards is more efficient than to hand cut - how does taping vertical edges like the sides of doors and windows compare to just hand cutting?


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

johnpaint said:


> Just wonder does your HD paint usually flash on you with this color? Is that why you roll all the way to the first floor of a 3 story building?


 
damn.............. just lose the tape and forget about cutting in then smash the base and 2 coat it afterwards, would save you a lot of time 


i think i should stop typing now lol


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

plainpainter said:


> I am curious to know if Jack thinks taping these horizontal edges on baseboards is more efficient than to hand cut - how does taping vertical edges like the sides of doors and windows compare to just hand cutting?


 
taping is never faster then hand cut............NEVER NEVER NEVER, only reason to ever use tape is if you get jammed up in a tight spot and the brush physically wont fit....... i cant give any examples cause i rarely have that problem..... ok well sometimes i do so i'll go grab the sissy arts an craft brush


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

plainpainter said:


> I am curious to know if Jack thinks taping these horizontal edges on baseboards is more efficient than to hand cut - how does taping vertical edges like the sides of doors and windows compare to just hand cutting?


And just now you are asking this? It get's more fun all the time.lol


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


> I roll tight. The roller covers almost all of it. 1/4" maybe missed?


Agreed :thumbup:


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Jack is out working in his garage working up a response.lol


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> Agreed :thumbup:


Do you do this on the ceiling too? :whistling2:


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

johnpaint said:


> Jack is out working in his garage working up a response.lol


I've got my camera charging and I'm dropping out the office. Will be contributing in the thread in 3 minutes........ :whistling2::jester:


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

this is gonna get good ............ so far we have a rep from HomeDepot and a ''rent a painter'' and what appears to be pictures from some type of kindergarten art class ............ wheres my popcorn?


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Sorry people but because of all the work in the garage the response time will be interrupted


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

there isnt a diagram in the entire world that could justify cutting it like that .............:no:


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

My new labor guy hit the ceiling five times today in one room, but he didn't roll down to the baseboard.lol


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

johnpaint said:


> Just wonder does your HD paint usually flash on you with this color? Is that why you roll all the way to the first floor of a 3 story building?


Not at all. Rolling tight gives the best overall look IMO. The blue paint pic is another PC's job, that is SW Cashmere you're looking at. They tape casings and base. I made that pic for the purpose of this discussion which I had in the past.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

plainpainter said:


> I am curious to know if Jack thinks taping these horizontal edges on baseboards is more efficient than to hand cut - how does taping vertical edges like the sides of doors and windows compare to just hand cutting?


If you need to cut 2 coats then I would say taping base with a 3M TA-20 masker is best. Also if you want the tight rolled look without any trace of a brushed area. In other words, all roller texture. 

I was always a no tape, no drop guy but since the 3M TA-20... I pick and choose when to tape.

The verts are cut freehand to control the line. (any ins and outs of the wall) Tape can over exaggerate the line on casings. Crown.. same thing, its freehand and always 1/16" away from the sharpest edge strictly to prevent false appearance of where the true line is.


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

Workaholic said:


> I like the other mods and the administrator am asking you guys to please keep your insulting comments to yourself. If you absolutely can not then save them for a PM. I thought we were past this point but please read or reread this announcement.
> http://www.painttalk.com/f2/announcements/


Funny stuff. John Paint has been trolling / dogging JP for several pages and yet y'all decide to call Wise out for a few posts. Interesting politics on PT...


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Wise's post have been more of a personal attack, where John's has been more of an attack on methods.

I think and agree that the mods are tougher on the personal stuff.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

My friend cuts everything a MINIMUM of 3-4 inches, it makes me crazy whenever Im at a site where he is painting. Classic case of old dog new tricks thing. He would probably defend his technique to the death. All I can do is cut 1/2" or so and whizz it to get that uniform rolled sheen that can become really obvious and DIY as the sheen goes up. Oh yeah, I cant get into how he rolls. My head might pop off.
I think its helpful to challenge technique, but sometimes its hard not to make it sound like you are attacking the person, as with my friend and others, right?? (Get it?)


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

kdpaint said:


> My friend cuts everything a MINIMUM of 3-4 inches, it makes me crazy whenever Im at a site where he is painting. Classic case of old dog new tricks thing. He would probably defend his technique to the death. All I can do is cut 1/2" or so and whizz it to get that uniform rolled sheen that can become really obvious and DIY as the sheen goes up. Oh yeah, I cant get into how he rolls. My head might pop off.
> I think its helpful to challenge technique, but sometimes its hard not to make it sound like you are attacking the person, as with my friend and others, right?? (Get it?)


:notworthy:


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

I have only seen a hand full of paints that I would take the time to roll up to the base, but even so you still have the light switches next to the doorway and you can't roll that close to the ceiling so what does it matter if it's going to flash that bad there is not much you can do about it short of taping and spraying. Also rolling that close to the base it's easy to force paint under the tape, takes longer and we all were talking about making the job shorter/less work I thought.
I don't really care guy's we all do things differently I guess. Have you ever hired a guy and hear him say, on my last job we did it like this kind of thing, sometimes it's better, if so change up and use it, make some money/ work smarter kind of thing.
Even though I don't understand Jack, Jack is his own man.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

KLaw said:


> Funny stuff. John Paint has been trolling / dogging JP for several pages and yet y'all decide to call Wise out for a few posts. Interesting politics on PT...


Actually if you read my post it was to everyone. 

I too thought John was being a bit harsh but felt JP was handling it well enough for it to work its self out. 

Always easier to sit back and judge a situation than it is to be the one to deal with it. 



bikerboy said:


> Wise's post have been more of a personal attack, where John's has been more of an attack on methods.
> 
> I think and agree that the mods are tougher on the personal stuff.


Easier to moderate personal comments than methods because methods come down to preference. It is a fine line to moderate sometimes.  Nobody including myself wants to feel stifled


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Workaholic said:


> Actually if you read my post it was to everyone.
> 
> I too thought John was being a bit harsh but felt JP was handling it well enough for it to work its self out.
> 
> ...


I was being too harsh and in that I'm sorry, I guess I get carried away sometimes. Sorry Jack.


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## Different Strokes (Dec 8, 2010)

Bender said:


> Those cuts around the outlets are killin' me:blink:


I don't know if it's the combination of that goofy lookin' bird AND your one liner posts Bender, OR just the post alone. But i'm friggin dying laughing over here, i got tears coming outta my eyes right now. :laughing::laughing::laughing:


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Different Strokes said:


> I don't know if it's the combination of that goofy lookin' bird AND your one liner posts Bender, OR just the post alone. But i'm friggin dying laughing over here, i got tears coming outta my eyes right now. :laughing::laughing::laughing:


Please don't encourage him...


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

I think its a good idea to not show up at a HO's house and start painting it like they would.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Ole34 said:


> there isnt a diagram in the entire world that could justify cutting it like that .............:no:


Which post # photo are you talking about? Cutting like what?


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


>


 I think this would be the one..


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


> Which post # photo are you talking about? Cutting like what?


FYI Jack, Ole34 can't respond as he's on a time out.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

It seems like some of the people who have strong opinions about stuff dont actually read posts (or responses to posts) that well. I thought it was clear that the cuts on that photo were h.o.'s.....


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> I think this would be the one..


Oh come on... that is exactly how they do it on YouTube.. verbatim... dont argue that its not right.  I saw the videos! It's got to be the right way.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


>


What kills me about that cut is they left 1/16 inch between the base and outlet. Huh?


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Bender said:


> What kills me about that cut is they left 1/16 inch between the base and outlet. Huh?


Well heres the kicker.. It gets rolled tight to casings, base and.... yes outlets and switches. Super tight in fact.

There is tape on that base, not sure it thats noticeable.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

you guys like to harp on those 'wide' cuts, or the fact they would bother to cut around outlets. Have you never run into all sorts of loose debris and dust between the outlet boxes and the plaster/sheetrock? If you cut paint with a brush, you gotta chance of locking it in - if instead you just use a roller you run a chance of getting all that crap into the roller and having it make a mess on your wall. Not every home is super deluxe new construction. Half the jobs in my past were horsehair plaster and lath old walls - and the other half were NC done badly a la 80's style.


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## bigjeffie61520 (Oct 3, 2009)

plainpainter said:


> you guys like to harp on those 'wide' cuts, or the fact they would bother to cut around outlets. Have you never run into all sorts of loose debris and dust between the outlet boxes and the plaster/sheetrock? If you cut paint with a brush, you gotta chance of locking it in - if instead you just use a roller you run a chance of getting all that crap into the roller and having it make a mess on your wall. Not every home is super deluxe new construction. Half the jobs in my past were horsehair plaster and lath old walls - and the other half were NC done badly a la 80's style.


i hit those power boxes w/ a shop vac. frequently they r cobby and i have to repair there anyway. I even throw in new covers sometimes to dress them out sometimes, if there is enough money in the job.

i only cut'm if the are too tight against trim to roll.

that one inch cut and taped base i cant get with. just seems too hackish.
I am not saying it isnt effective when executed properly. 
it simply grates on my idea craftsmanship


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

plainpainter said:


> you guys like to harp on those 'wide' cuts, or the fact they would bother to cut around outlets. Have you never run into all sorts of loose debris and dust between the outlet boxes and the plaster/sheetrock? If you cut paint with a brush, you gotta chance of locking it in - if instead you just use a roller you run a chance of getting all that crap into the roller and having it make a mess on your wall. Not every home is super deluxe new construction. Half the jobs in my past were horsehair plaster and lath old walls - and the other half were NC done badly a la 80's style.


You're missing the point, by 3 inches.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Bender said:


> You're missing the point, by 3 inches.


That's what she said.......





.....................ba'dum'dum.:whistling2:


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

Bender said:


> You're missing the point, by 3 inches.


:laughing::laughing:

I logged in at 10 o'clock on a Saturday night to put up two emoticons...thanks Bender.


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

NEPS.US said:


> That's what she said.......
> 
> 
> 
> ...



.....and now I've spent the last 2 minutes verbally questioning your phonetic ability.....back to....:drink:


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

ba
da
dum 

better?


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

NEPS.US said:


> ba
> da
> dum
> 
> better?


Man I'm thinking....

bah
dahm 
bum

...seemed so easy in my head.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

bah
dom
dumb
?


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

or this ...we forgot the tish


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

ya ya....good. I'm just using chop sticks so I could be missing something.

What's this thread about?....sorry Jack.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)




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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

I'm sorry too Jack but this is as important as the comments about the cut lines around that dam outlet.


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

NEPS.US said:


> I'm sorry too Jack but this is as important as the comments about the cut lines around that dam outlet.


Right, very important indeed

....but I must point out how close you were the first time...if the "d" was a "b" it would have been spot on. 

Nice to sum things up like that.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

I'm totally confused now. It's also called a rimshot but I totally thought a rimshot was something else.............:whistling2:


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

"Assless chaps" and now "rimshots". I think your on the wrong forum Chris.....:whistling2:


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

I look at my keyboard with squeamish acknowledgment...."nope, got nothin' to say to that".


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

And just for the record I did not search youtube for "rimshot" and that video popped up. :whistling2:


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

aw'crap. I now have to answer to Jack tomorrow for the derailment. :sweatdrop:


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

NEPS.US said:


> aw'crap. I now have to answer to Jack tomorrow for the derailment. :sweatdrop:


I'll put in a good word for ya.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> aw'crap. I now have to answer to Jack tomorrow for the derailment. :sweatdrop:


The title to this thread IS the derailment:jester:


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Bender said:


> You're missing the point, by 3 inches.


 Not to mention there is such a thing as a vacuum to get those outlets. Should be pole sanding the wall first anyways, so you have to have to vacuum the base anyways.. :whistling2:


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