# Official IQ test



## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

http://www.free-iqtest.net

Eeeh my daughter challenged me, yeh she bested me. But I bested the wife in a nail bitter. And I dunno how official it is. But it's harder than I would have thought it would be. 20 questions. Harder than the would have thought.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Is 122 poor? My excuse is I was in a rush. I have skool tonight.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

126 What does that get me?


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

Wait, was this a test to see who was stupid enough to click on that link?

I'll need to hear the answer to that before I divulge my score … I mean say whether or not I took the bait … I mean … well … sh!t.


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## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

127 and now my head hurts.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

133 and my wife got 140. 
Kind of a neat little excessive, but way to simple to be an accurate measurement of IQ IMO. (My wife's not that smart  ) :jester: 

I took an actual IQ test when I was a teenager. It was extremely long, and frustrating at times. It involved more than just questions on paper. I remember doing problems with wooden blocks of different shapes, looking at ink blot cards, and some very weird word problems. Think I scored 126 on that one. 

I think there is some debate on the validity of IQ tests overall.


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

Jmayspaint said:


> 133 and my wife got 140.
> ...
> I think there is some debate on the validity of IQ tests overall.


Your wife may disagree…

(Mine would.)


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## The Cutting Edge (May 25, 2014)

136 and my head hurts. My wives turn. Man I hope she's dumber than me.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

138 here.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

should I let Jim take it it? or wait until the morning :whistling2:


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## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

142 which is actually what I tested at back in school so I guess for a short test its fairly accurate. You can go back through at the end and see what the answers were I missed two the one with how many boxes and one of the number pattern ones.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

jacob33 said:


> 142 which is actually what I tested at back in school so I guess for a short test its fairly accurate. You can go back through at the end and see what the answers were I missed two the one with how many boxes and one of the number pattern ones.


I missed those two as well and must be one other one.


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## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

Im not so certain they are right on the box one to tell you the truth. I counted more than the 25 they said but I guess I'm just a painters so take that for what its worth.


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

136. I hate those "which diagram best completes each sequence" questions.


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## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

I did some calculus the other day. Its been 10 years since I had my 8 college credits but I still remembered it.I had an employee that was doing it in college and I wanted to see if I could still do it and I could.


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

So far it is a small sample size, but I think we are scoring above average for a bunch of painters. Aren't we supposed to be hovering around 100? Me see wall, me have paint, me paint wall. Maybe I get to tend the rabbits George, George let me tend the rabbits.


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## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

A little of mice and men there. I would be willing to bet that many of the people that post on here are either owners or foremen of some type for their company so we are probably above average.


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

jacob33 said:


> A little of mice and men there. I would be willing to bet that many of the people that post on here are either owners or foremen of some type for their company so we are probably above average.


Nice of you to know where I stole and paraphrased that from. I wouldn't remember how to solve a calculus equation if my life depended upon it. Good for you that you still can. That is awesome in my book.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Hey teacher! 
Is it possible to get a negative score? 
I need the rest room please. 
What time is lunch? 
Is it time to go home yet?

Why does my head hurt after this?

Sorry my ADD kicked in. What was I doing again? Oh yeah an IQ test. Maybe not a smart move right now. 

Stop the bus. I guess I'm about as smaht as the rest. I took it 3 times without checking the answers at the end. Got a 120 and 122 twice.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

SemiproJohn said:


> So far it is a small sample size, but I think we are scoring above average for a bunch of painters. Aren't we supposed to be hovering around 100? Me see wall, me have paint, me paint wall. Maybe I get to tend the rabbits George, George let me tend the rabbits.


I'm telling you it's all the goodness we smell every time we open a can of paint, paint thinner, brush cleaner, oil based, and so on. As the paint or chemical fumes cure on our brains that helps us retain all this useless crap like what box best finishes this sequence. :blink:


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## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

SemiproJohn said:


> Nice of you to know where I stole and paraphrased that from. I wouldn't remember how to solve a calculus equation if my life depended upon it. Good for you that you still can. That is awesome in my book.



I'm probably younger than you only 28 so I'm not that far removed from it.


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## The Cutting Edge (May 25, 2014)

My wife got a 131. Boy its gonna suck to be her the next couple of weeks.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

If it's so damn smart, I'd just like to see this farking computer mix a margarita :thumbsup:


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## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

daArch said:


> If it's so damn smart, I'd just like to see this farking computer mix a margarita :thumbsup:



Give it a few years I'm sure there will be automated bartenders before too long.


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## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

I just googled it there is automated bartenders. There are youtube videos of them.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Oh, BTW, I got what I fully expected to get:










at least it wasn't


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

jacob33 said:


> I'm probably younger than you only 28 so I'm not that far removed from it.


Well, I'm going to turn 55 in November. 

When reminiscing about all those sample SAT's, sample GRE's, and IQ tests I have taken in the past, I distinctly remember quite a variance in my practice scores. Some of the scores are influenced by a "luck of the draw" randomness in questions. Some are just harder than others. I would think it best to take this test 5 times and then average the results.


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

SemiproJohn said:


> Well, I'm going to turn 55 in November.
> 
> When reminiscing about all those sample SAT's, sample GRE's, and IQ tests I have taken in the past, I distinctly remember quite a variance in my practice scores. Some of the scores are influenced by a "luck of the draw" randomness in questions. Some are just harder than others. * I would think it best to take this test 5 times and then average the results.*


What does it mean if the 5th beer score is higher than the 1st beer score?


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

I paint paint said:


> What does it mean if the 5th beer score is higher than the 1st beer score?


Well, it could mean that 5th beer has loosened up those neural pathways and you're thinking faster and clearer. :whistling2:

Or, it could mean you are guessing better on those questions that have you stumped. :whistling2:

Or, it could mean that enough of the questions on the fifth test were easier than on those before it for you to have improved your score. :whistling2:

I'm gonna take a wild guess and attribute it to good guessing. :thumbup:


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## TKbrush (Dec 30, 2014)

5 beers....according to the media, your a binge thinker...

My parents had one of these emailed to them and my dad scored high...so i totally doubt its validity now...haha

Its too early for me to take a test...but i look forward to seeing how dumb i am later. This is reminding me, how nice it is, not to be in school and having to take tests.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Honestly, I'm not dumb enough to care.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

The 20 question IQ tests are silly ego-feeders that make everyone think they're geniuses. Last 5-6 times I took one I didn't miss any questions at all. I also got perfect score on my SAT's. I'm good at taking tests, obviously if I was actually smart I wouldn't be working as a paint store clerk.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

I paint paint said:


> What does it mean if the 5th beer score is higher than the 1st beer score?


You're a farkin beer genius.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Oh, and the only thing that makes online IQ tests official is writing the word "official" in the title of them


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

DrakeB said:


> Oh, and the only thing that makes online IQ tests official is writing the word "official" in the title of them


Kind of like putting primer in the paint.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

DrakeB said:


> The 20 question IQ tests are silly ego-feeders that make everyone think they're geniuses. Last 5-6 times I took one I didn't miss any questions at all. I also got perfect score on my SAT's. I'm good at taking tests, obviously if I was actually smart I wouldn't be working as a paint store clerk.



So I SHOODN'T bea werried I'm a leefy grene vegible ???


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

I got 139. WTF are bloopies and razzies?


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

daArch said:


> So I SHOODN'T bea werried I'm a leefy grene vegible ???


There's other red flags for you


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

actually when you think about it, all the geniuses are/were socially awkward. Not good to be a genius painter.

DAM I'm glad I gots such indelible people skills


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

ProWallGuy said:


> I got 139. WTF are bloopies and razzies?


just answer *true*


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Y'know, maybe I should make one of those asinine Facebook quizzes everyone passes around and have it be a "painter IQ test." I might actually do that tonight, that way we can all see how you lot do. Of course, it'll be drawing from my knowledge base, so even if you ace it that still only means you're smarter than a dumbass.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

daArch said:


> just answer *true*



I thought it was false


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

the test is sexist.

I took the test, it took quite a bit of time - especially counting the rectangles and for the 17th I had to guess (got it wrong).

Got a 143, which did not surprise me, I know I ain't too brite

wrote down all the right answers, took it again using Epic browser (proxy on) as a male of almost exactly the same age (one month different)

Pretended to take a reasonable amount of time to figure it out and put down all the CORRECT answers

Scored a 150


signed in again (with the Epic proxy), signified I was a woman of the same age and got the same one wrong as my original test - Again taking resonable time to "figure out" each answer/

As a girl, getting the same question #17 wrong, I scored 153


sexist pig test.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

141, not bad i guess. far better than i expected, that's for sure...


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

I passed without even having to take the test cause only an idiot would do it.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

I'm obsessed. Would someone please explain to me the progression of the sequence in # 17?



> What is the missing number in the sequence shown below?
> 1 - 8 - 27 - ? - 125 - 216


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

daArch said:


> I'm obsessed. Would someone please explain to me the progression of the sequence in # 17?


NEVERMIND, I just got it

DUH !

(now I feel REAL stoooopid)


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Dun got me a 133, these scores are definitely inflated tho. Back in the day I took a real IQ test, that thing was long and grueling. I got a 124 back then and doubt I'd do much better today.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

You have to wonder about a test that scores almost everyone that takes it as gifted or a genius. One of rwo things, 1) test is flawed, 2) painters are really smart, and if so we are in the wrong profession.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

daArch said:


> NEVERMIND, I just got it
> 
> DUH !
> 
> (now I feel REAL stoooopid)


What is it?


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Pete the Painter said:


> What is it?


1 cubed = 1
2 cubed = 8
3 cubed = 27
*4 cubed = 64*
5 cubed = 125
6 cubed = 216


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Pete the Painter said:


> You have to wonder about a test that scores almost everyone that takes it as gifted or a genius. One of rwo things, 1) test is flawed, 2) painters are really smart, and if so we are in the wrong profession.


I think most here understand why they ain't working in some other environment or in another field.

In today's world, vocation has less to do with intelligence than with personality.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

daArch said:


> 1 cubed = 1
> 2 cubed = 8
> 3 cubed = 27
> *4 cubed = 64*
> ...


I would have never figured that one out.


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

DrakeB said:


> Y'know, maybe I should make one of those asinine *Facebook* quizzes everyone passes around and have it be a "painter IQ test." I might actually do that tonight, that way we can all see how you lot do. Of course, it'll be drawing from my knowledge base, so even if you ace it that still only means you're smarter than a dumbass.


If you do, make sure you make it available here.

(Some of us don't have accounts there.)


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

daArch said:


> I think most here understand why they ain't working in some other environment or in another field.
> 
> In today's world, vocation has less to do with intelligence than with personality.


It was not meant as a jab, just joking. I know that a lot of individuals in the trades are very bright...if I have learned anything these past three years it is that running a successful business takes some intelligence.

My personality certainly had a lot to do with my decision to slap paint on walls. An introvert that probably should have never gone into teaching. Plus, could not handle dealing with the idiots (students, parents, and adminstration). Wish I had learned this before way too many years of education. Will be paying for it until I am in the grave.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Pete the Painter said:


> I would have never figured that one out.


Most of these type of questions can be figured out without understanding the math, which is why most people fail (they think, "I can't figure out the formula, I'll just guess"). It's the wrong approach- IQ tests don't measure your math knowledge, they measure your ability to solve problems.

For example, most of the sequence problems can be solved by plotting a line graph on a piece of notebook paper- no math knowledge at all required. Plot each point, draw a line/curve that connects them as best you can (doesn't have to be exact), then put points on for all of the potential answers and chose the one that falls on your line/curve from before in the right place. Doesn't work for all of these questions, but the point is that you can solve most of these without having ever taken a math class in your life if your IQ is _actually_ fairly high.

In fact, knowing the math actually artificially inflates your score sometimes as you're not reasoning out the pattern, you're using your knowledge (not what IQ is supposed to measure) to come up with the formula.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Dun got me a 133, these scores are definitely inflated tho. Back in the day I took a real IQ test, that thing was long and grueling. I got a 124 back then and doubt I'd do much better today.


They gave me one of those 4 hour tests once. I thought it was stupid.
pretty much all that came out of it was they had the answer to why i was such a smarta55 in school.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Ok. To further satisfy my curiosity here is a one question pass/fail I.Q. test;

You have 100 doors to paint, both sides.
If you use paint brand b, and it costs you $38.00 per gallon.
it takes you 10 gallons and 50 man hours at $25.00 an hour to complete the job.

or you use brand c and it costs you $42.00 per gallon
and it takes you 8 gallons and 37 man hours to do the job.

Which is the better paint?
which makes you more money?

Now take your time, this is a tough one!


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

PACman said:


> Ok. To further satisfy my curiosity here is a one question pass/fail I.Q. test;
> 
> You have 100 doors to paint, both sides.
> If you use paint brand b, and it costs you $38.00 per gallon.
> ...


¿ x æ + Ð = ± § :vs_peek: :vs_laugh: :vs_blush:


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

daArch said:


> ¿ x æ + Ð = ± § :vs_peek: :vs_laugh: :vs_blush:


Dang you are smart! Showed your work and everything!

Other exceptable answers would be bears and purple.


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

DrakeB said:


> Most of these type of questions can be figured out without understanding the math, which is why most people fail (they think, "I can't figure out the formula, I'll just guess"). It's the wrong approach- IQ tests don't measure your math knowledge, they measure your ability to solve problems.
> 
> For example, *most of the sequence problems can be solved by plotting a line graph on a piece of notebook paper*- no math knowledge at all required. Plot each point, draw a line/curve that connects them as best you can (doesn't have to be exact), then put points on for all of the potential answers and chose the one that falls on your line/curve from before in the right place. Doesn't work for all of these questions, but the point is that you can solve most of these without having ever taken a math class in your life if your IQ is _actually_ fairly high.
> 
> In fact, knowing the math actually artificially inflates your score sometimes as you're not reasoning out the pattern, you're using your knowledge (not what IQ is supposed to measure) to come up with the formula.


Cheater! :jester:

I'm not sure, but I don't think these IQ tests are meant to be taken with the help of pencil and paper. What is a better measure of IQ? The ability to solve such questions by mental computation/visualization and the ability to do so without written visualization and the aid of a memory-retaining device, or the ability to realize that using a pencil and paper makes things easier? :whistling2:


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

DrakeB said:


> Most of these type of questions can be figured out without understanding the math, which is why most people fail (they think, "I can't figure out the formula, I'll just guess"). It's the wrong approach- IQ tests don't measure your math knowledge, they measure your ability to solve problems.
> 
> For example, most of the sequence problems can be solved by plotting a line graph on a piece of notebook paper- no math knowledge at all required. Plot each point, draw a line/curve that connects them as best you can (doesn't have to be exact), then put points on for all of the potential answers and chose the one that falls on your line/curve from before in the right place. Doesn't work for all of these questions, but the point is that you can solve most of these without having ever taken a math class in your life if your IQ is _actually_ fairly high.
> 
> In fact, knowing the math actually artificially inflates your score sometimes as you're not reasoning out the pattern, you're using your knowledge (not what IQ is supposed to measure) to come up with the formula.


In some cases, the graph solution isn't so helpful:

https://www.fibonicci.com/numerical-reasoning/number-sequences-test/hard/


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

[


cdpainting said:


> Hey teacher!
> Is it possible to get a negative score?
> I need the rest room please.
> What time is lunch?
> Is it time to go home yet?


Funny,for most of you I picture your school years something like this:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

SemiproJohn said:


> Cheater! :jester:
> 
> I'm not sure, but I don't think these IQ tests are meant to be taken with the help of pencil and paper. What is a better measure of IQ? The ability to solve such questions by mental computation/visualization and the ability to do so without written visualization and the aid of a memory-retaining device, or the ability to realize that using a pencil and paper makes things easier? :whistling2:


I searched online to see if pen and paper, calculator, or other devices are allowed.

One test said NOT use pen and paper, except when the test says it's allowed

. Another test said 
"This test is supposed to assess your intellectual potential, not your performance under stress. Therefore, there is no time limit. Nonetheless, this test is usually completed in less than one hour. You may use a calculator, a piece of paper and a pencil. Do not use software to solve the problems"

An info piece on taking a Mensa test says, "The questions have to be solved mentally. You are not allowed to use pencil or paper to workout the problems."

it appears the rules are up to the test giver.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Gonna give this a try and see how stupid I've gotten over the years.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Pencil and paper are allowed on real IQ tests. It's not supposed to be arbitrarily difficult, the point is to test your ability to solve questions. Any additional 'challenge' like questions requiring foreknowledge or visualization skills detract from test accuracy.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Gough said:


> In some cases, the graph solution isn't so helpful:
> 
> https://www.fibonicci.com/numerical-reasoning/number-sequences-test/hard/


Like I said, it isn't always the graph that solves it; the point is that math knowledge isn't necessary, reasoning skills are.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Phewf, 136. Thought I was gonna be way stupider than that. #17 was a tough one for me. I guessed. Got bored staring at it for too long.

No pen and paper.

I strongly doubt little interweb quizzes like that have any statistical validity whatsoever. They are good mental exercises though.

I really didn't like the numerical sequence questions. It's been too long.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

daArch said:


> I searched online to see if pen and paper, calculator, or other devices are allowed.
> 
> One test said NOT use pen and paper, except when the test says it's allowed
> 
> ...


The true I.Q tests, the ones given by the head shrinkers, are timed. And part of the results are dependent on how many questions you answer as well as how many and which questions you skip. And they are given by trained individuals who actually monitor and observe your reactions while you are taking the test. Sometimes they even watch you from behind a two way mirror.

At least they told me it was an IQ test.

Pencil and paper only.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Yeh, time is a major factor on them and part of my downfall. I'm both stubborn and patient, so I can sit there and work a problem for 4 hours happily as long as my mind is engaged.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

I was 125. Full disclosure I guessed on 5 maybe and I guessed pretty good on them. So. But i didn't spend much time either and no paper. I got like a zero attention span anymore, if ever i had one.
My daughter surprised the crap out of me getting some of them hard ones, especially the math.

I dunno. But grade school. The dot tests if we all had them. I thought they were nationwide and everyone took them? Beleive it or not I used to walk them things. 98%, 99% right across the board, so at 99% you basically did better than everyone. Well guess what? My actual school grades never did reflect them scores. B's and C's but really? How hard is that? So anyhow. I thought I'd ace this thing. Uh uh. This test is different, than the dot tests. I'd ace one of them right now. I used to walk them dot tests.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Oden said:


> I was 125. Full disclosure I guessed on 5 maybe and I guessed pretty good on them. So. But i didn't spend much time either and no paper. I got like a zero attention span anymore, if ever i had one.
> My daughter surprised the crap out of me getting some of them hard ones, especially the math.
> 
> I dunno. But grade school. The dot tests if we all had them. I thought they were nationwide and everyone took them? Beleive it or not I used to walk them things. 98%, 99% right across the board, so at 99% you basically did better than everyone. Well guess what? My actual school grades never did reflect them scores. B's and C's but really? How hard is that? So anyhow. I thought I'd ace this thing. Uh uh. This test is different, than the dot tests. I'd ace one of them right now. I used to walk them dot tests.


I've never felt that school grades were necessarily reflective of how smart or intelligent you are, but rather a gauge of how well you perform/achieve in systems. My high school grades were average. In university, I realized that very little I learned in high school had prepared me for what I was dealing with in university. I managed to get into university through the back door as my high school marks didn't meet the normal requirements.

Every year in university, my marks got higher and higher in spite of the fact that I worked full time through the whole 4 years. I considered continuing and doing my masters degree, but I liked the money I was making too much at the time. Money won.

I don't even remember where my degree is now that I think of it. I had it on a wall around here somewhere until a few years ago. I paid a crap load of money for that damn thing. I should try and find it.


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Phewf, 136. Thought I was gonna be way stupider than that. #17 was a tough one for me. I guessed. Got bored staring at it for too long.
> 
> No pen and paper.
> 
> ...


Welcome to the 136 no pen and paper club. I think that qualifies us to enforce laws that haven't been invented yet.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

SemiproJohn said:


> Welcome to the 136 no pen and paper club. I think that qualifies us to enforce laws that haven't been invented yet.


I'm kind of excited about this proposition. Any thoughts on what potential laws we could potentially enforce? We could become grammar nazis? I guess that ones been done. Tho.


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

Wildbill7145 said:


> I'm kind of excited about this proposition. Any thoughts on what potential laws we could potentially enforce? We could become grammar nazis? I guess that ones been done. Tho.


Perhaps we could become word gestapo and enforce the abolishment of the use of words such as ontogenesis. Not that I dislike that word or anything of that nature.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

SemiproJohn said:


> Perhaps we could become word gestapo and enforce the abolishment of the use of words such as ontogenesis. Not that I dislike that word or anything of that nature.


Don't disparage my word choice


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

DrakeB said:


> Don't disparage my word choice


We haz IQz of 136, no pencil added. We disparage at will.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Wildbill7145 said:


> I've never felt that school grades were necessarily reflective of how smart or intelligent you are, but rather a gauge of how well you perform/achieve in systems. My high school grades were average. In university, I realized that very little I learned in high school had prepared me for what I was dealing with in university. I managed to get into university through the back door as my high school marks didn't meet the normal requirements.
> 
> Every year in university, my marks got higher and higher in spite of the fact that I worked full time through the whole 4 years. I considered continuing and doing my masters degree, but I liked the money I was making too much at the time. Money won.
> 
> I don't even remember where my degree is now that I think of it. I had it on a wall around here somewhere until a few years ago. I paid a crap load of money for that damn thing. I should try and find it.


I achieved excellent mediocrity in both high school and the bit of college I did, all while acing every test- in class, or standardized, or IQ. It baffled the less bright teachers, and made the smarter ones sigh. They all knew I was destined to waste it on a paint store some day. School comes down to motivation for most people, very few are actually challenged by current curriculum in my opinion. What it came down to was that I wasn't terribly engaged to the point where there was a major dissonance with my class mates. I wasn't a trouble student, I was just bored. By senior year some of my teachers just sent me to the computer lab each day to learn on my own. I went through the full year's planned coursework in a matter of weeks.

I'd rather have beauty than brains.


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

DrakeB said:


> I achieved excellent mediocrity in both high school and the bit of college I did, all while acing every test- in class, or standardized, or IQ. It baffled the less bright teachers, and made the smarter ones sigh. They all knew I was destined to waste it on a paint store some day. School comes down to motivation for most people, very few are actually challenged by current curriculum in my opinion. What it came down to was that I wasn't terribly engaged to the point where there was a major dissonance with my class mates. I wasn't a trouble student, I was just bored. By senior year some of my teachers just sent me to the computer lab each day to learn on my own. I went through the full year's planned coursework in a matter of weeks.
> 
> I'd rather have beauty than brains.


By college, couldn't you have focused on a course of study that would have interested you?

Clearly you are bright. In your posts you have demonstrated interest in things like coating chemistry, independent vs. big box vs. Amazon business models, linguistics, and the software IT stuff at your other job. Just to name a few subjects.

I would think things like graduate school and independent study overseen by a professor would allow you to tailor curriculum to your satisfaction. Universities have options to create your own major even.


----------



## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

DrakeB said:


> I'd rather have beauty than brains.


Beauty is great in your 20s.

It has very little use afterwards.


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## TKbrush (Dec 30, 2014)

fauxlynn said:


> [
> 
> Funny,for most of you I picture your school years something like this:
> 
> http://youtu.be/6M4_Ommfvv0



Honestly i think everybody, relates to waldo in this video, throughout school to a degree. Its like this dichotemy of youthful energy and mindset, where you think you know everything on one hand and yet you want to be cool and successful on the other hand. Ofcourse teenagers and adults, have different notions of whats cool personality wise...so ya get this chaos, or kinetic energy that sometimes does not go right. 
Anyway, as someone who first saw that video in the mid 80s..wow those girls look super thin to me now...oh my god im old.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

SemiproJohn said:


> Perhaps we could become word gestapo and enforce the abolishment of the use of words such as ontogenesis. Not that I dislike that word or anything of that nature.


Just remember the First Rule of the word gestapo, right?


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

Gough said:


> Just remember the First Rule of the word gestapo, right?


I'm not familiar with the First Rule. Could it be, "All words are created equal, but some words are more equal than others?" Yeah, I stole that from Orwell.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

SemiproJohn said:


> I'm not familiar with the First Rule. Could it be, "All words are created equal, but some words are more equal than others?" Yeah, I stole that from Orwell.


HINT: the root of the "ge-" prefix.


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

Gough said:


> HINT: the root of the "ge-" prefix.


Are you referring to "ge" meaning "secret" in German? If not, placate me by educating me...I only scored a 136 on "Oden's" IQ test.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

SemiproJohn said:


> Are you referring to "ge" meaning "secret" in German? If not, placate me by educating me...I only scored a 136 on "Oden's" IQ test.


You got it.


----------



## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

BTW, I scored a 127. But I went to art college, so who cares.

Someone was talking about tests and grades. I don't care how smart anyone tests, if you cannot apply it, it's a waste. 

My oldest brother is probably a genius. He can do all that multiply this 10 digit number by this 12 digit number. in his head.He can draw anything from memory. He can tell you what the starting lineup was for the world series back in '72. He has an uncanny knowledge of politics and what is going on in the world.

He cannot understand that you have to shut the windows in the house when the AC is on. He once blew up a car because the oil light was on for a week, didn't check it.
He works as a greeter at Walmart, with his masters degree and zero people skills.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

SemiproJohn said:


> Are you referring to "ge" meaning "secret" in German? If not, placate me by educating me...I only scored a 136 on "Oden's" IQ test.



1st rule of Gestapo is you don't talk about Gestapo.


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## TKbrush (Dec 30, 2014)

Wtf?


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

TKbrush said:


> Wtf?


Just another example of the PaintTalk Random Walk Thread Topic Drift.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

The 3rd question made my head seize up, I quit.:thumbsup:


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

I paint paint said:


> By college, couldn't you have focused on a course of study that would have interested you?
> 
> Clearly you are bright. In your posts you have demonstrated interest in things like coating chemistry, independent vs. big box vs. Amazon business models, linguistics, and the software IT stuff at your other job. Just to name a few subjects.
> 
> I would think things like graduate school and independent study overseen by a professor would allow you to tailor curriculum to your satisfaction. Universities have options to create your own major even.


101 courses were a struggle for me. Never felt they were a lick more advanced than high school classes. If I'd had some foresight and not been such a ridiculous dumbass back then I would have just stuck with it until junior/senior year when I could find something I enjoyed learning about that I didn't know. I went through first semester okay-ish (aced tests, didn't turn in homework as usual). Second semester let's just say I got bogged down with "other things," lost my $ 20,000 scholarship, and dropped out.

Being smart doesn't do you a lick of good if you blow it on nothing. By far my biggest failing and one I'll likely never rectify. Interestingly, I also can't get financial aid for another few years because in the US you're a dependant of your parents for financial aid purposes until 27, which is the most insanely bull**** thing I've heard in my life. By 27 I will have been completely self sustaining and on my own for nearly 10 years. There's a lot of kids in this world that that's extremely unfair for. Just another example of the government saying "screw you" to anyone who doesn't conform.


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> 1st rule of Gestapo is you don't talk about Gestapo.





TKbrush said:


> Wtf?


TK, people here get pretty touchy about proprietary ingredients. Secret recipes are, well, secret.

I will tell you I double the garlic and half the bread and use only the finest EVOO in my emulsion. Just a few tricks I picked up in Marbella that didn't involve sun tan lotion.

But, alas, now that Labor day has come and gone, it will be quite a few months before I get a vine of heirlooms and the blender out again.
@benthepainter


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

jacob33 said:


> I did some calculus the other day. Its been 10 years since I had my 8 college credits but I still remembered it.I had an employee that was doing it in college and I wanted to see if I could still do it and I could.


I'm impressed. 

A few years ago, I was looking at some of Gough Jr.'s calculations. I thought I'd gotten the gist of what was going on, and made some comment to that fact. He replied that I was looking at it upside down, turned it around, and it was like looking at Sanskrit. It wasn't, it was quantum optics, but just as indecipherable
to me.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

My wife was telling me the other day that they don't teach math the same way they used to when we went to school. Even at a basic level. I had no idea what she was talking about. How can adding/subtracting, etc. be done any differently than the way we learned. If you have 2 apples and add 2 more, you've got 4 apples. No?


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Wildbill7145 said:


> My wife was telling me the other day that they don't teach math the same way they used to when we went to school. Even at a basic level. I had no idea what she was talking about. How can adding/subtracting, etc. be done any differently than the way we learned. If you have 2 apples and add 2 more, you've got 4 apples. No?


No, if you have 2 apples and add 2 more, you've got 2 apples. You forgot 2 of the apples you had to give to the government.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

Wildbill7145 said:


> My wife was telling me the other day that they don't teach math the same way they used to when we went to school. Even at a basic level. I had no idea what she was talking about. How can adding/subtracting, etc. be done any differently than the way we learned. If you have 2 apples and add 2 more, you've got 4 apples. No?


They don't teach/make you learn time tables anymore
I never learned mine, memorized them. One of the many things I didn't study. And never learned. It was a early on thing and I never memorized them.
It's funny. Cause for multiplication I always did/do what they now teach and I picked it up myself. I saw my daughters homework one day and recognized my method right away, I came up with it myself. The way they now do it, cause I didn't study my homework. Lol


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Wildbill7145 said:


> My wife was telling me the other day that they don't teach math the same way they used to when we went to school. Even at a basic level. I had no idea what she was talking about. How can adding/subtracting, etc. be done any differently than the way we learned. If you have 2 apples and add 2 more, you've got 4 apples. No?


Wildbill, I don't know how old you are, but this all happens periodically. The new approach here is "The Common Core", but let's keep this out of the Politics section.

In the '60s, it was "New Math".


www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfCJgC2zezw


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Gough said:


> Wildbill, I don't know how old you are, but this all happens periodically. The new approach here is "The Common Core", but let's ken this out of the Politics section.
> 
> In the '60s, it was "New Math".
> 
> ...


I'm 45. I just thought math was math was math and hadn't changed ever. Not talking theoretical calculus here or something.

But, like you and Oden said it's happening. It'd be interesting to find out how they're doing it now. Having no kids (I like dogs better) I guess I'll just have to youtube it or something.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Son Jake was doing subtraction in his head at about the same time he was starting walk, whatever age that is, I rememberr asking him how many stones he had in his hand, he said 7. How many would you have if you dropped two, immediately he said five. 

He somehow visualizes amounts, not numbers. His "method" of multiplication I never understood and was afraid that the schools were going to mess him up and told him NOT to lose his method. 

He's a walking calculator. Maybe his way is what you guys are talking about, I don't know, I memorized the tables and still have problems with 7 x 8, 9 x 12, and will need a pencil and paper for any product when more than two digits - and I'm supposed to be good at understanding math, algebra, geometry, etc.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

daArch said:


> Son Jake was doing subtraction in his head at about the same time he was starting walk, whatever age that is, I rememberr asking him how many stones he had in his hand, he said 7. How many would you have if you dropped two, immediately he said five.
> 
> He somehow visualizes amounts, not numbers. His "method" of multiplication I never understood and was afraid that the schools were going to mess him up and told him NOT to lose his method.
> 
> He's a walking calculator. Maybe his way is what you guys are talking about, I don't know, I memorized the tables and still have problems with 7 x 8, 9 x 12, and will need a pencil and paper for any product when more than two digits - and I'm supposed to be good at understanding math, algebra, geometry, etc.


you are not alone, but, even I will use a calculator on occasion


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

chrisn said:


> you are not alone, but, even I will use a calculator on occasion


Sorry, I thought that was a given. I was talking about the times when there is no calculator within two miles :thumbsup:


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

One thing that's actually killing me this morning is that on Facebook, people around here are going off about the fact that cursive hand writing is now on the 'optional' list of the school curriculum. Alongside MS Powerpoint.

The funny thing about it is that every single adult/middle aged person that's ranting about this are making more spelling mistakes than I can even count. I just pointed that out to everyone. I think I kind of killed the conversation.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

daArch said:


> Sorry, I thought that was a given. I was talking about the times when there is no calculator within two miles :thumbsup:


As a mental exercise, I do the calculations for estimates in my head. It's easier with paint, though. It stretches better than paper, so I can work in round numbers.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Wildbill7145 said:


> One thing that's actually killing me this morning is that on Facebook, people around here are going off about the fact that cursive hand writing is now on the 'optional' list of the school curriculum. Alongside MS Powerpoint.
> 
> The funny thing about it is that every single adult/middle aged person that's ranting about this are making more spelling mistakes than I can even count. I just pointed that out to everyone. I think I kind of killed the conversation.


In the last 43 years, I've only used cursive for one thing, signing my name. Six letters: one uppercase, 5 lower. I don't even use it for my middle initial.


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

Gough said:


> *In the last 43 years, I've only used cursive for one thing, signing my name.* Six letters: one uppercase, 5 lower. I don't even use it for my middle initial.


Why? There has simply never been a practical use for it.

Or there is some deep-seated political opposition to cursive I am unaware of?


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

I disagree, YET I print most things I write by hand.

It all started a long long time ago in 1967 . . . 

My hand written (cursive) notes from history class were SOOO bad, I could not read them, so even when I did start studying for the final at midnight before it, I had no chance of reviewing what I had written.

That's when I started printing.


But I gotta say, I'm trying to synchronize my brain and hand (tame the ADD) and am attempting to better my long hand. It IS quicker than printing and it is good for self discipline. 

I am disappointing that the schools are dropping all sorts of communication skills. Prolly soon they b teachin any kinda shrt ctz. i not b ok w/ that, wld u b ok ?


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

A friend of mine is constantly responding to his daughters text messages with "Please send actual words."

The only thing I use full cursive for is my signature. When writing anything else I've been using a hybrid of printing and cursive for as long as I can remember.


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

Wildbill7145 said:


> A friend of mine is constantly responding to his daughters text messages with "Please send actual words."


Wot? OMG! ROOD!!!


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I like using cursive when taking notes. It seems to transfer my thoughts to page with less effort.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

CApainter said:


> I like using cursive when taking notes. It seems to transfer my thoughts to page with less effort.


You actually *write* your notes? How quaint.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Gough said:


> You actually *write* your notes? How quaint.


Taking notes has actually been an interesting exercise in methods of learning for me. I've tried several different methods from recording what I read out of a book, and playing it back over the course of a day, to actually drawing some sort of association to what I'm learning. I like creating flow charts. 

It looks like I'll be back to taking notes since this instructor likes to lecture rather than have us read chapters out of the required text book. The text book in this particular course is actually optional, but I'm getting it anyways.

My daughter makes fun of me because my note book is full of handwritten entries with yellow highlights every where. Doesn't anyone take notes anymore, or is everyone too genius to bother?


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

Gough said:


> You actually *write* your notes? How quaint.



Assuming you're referring to taking notes via recorder then instead of writing them down? Wouldn't you agree though that memory retention/recall is more effective visually vs auditory?


----------



## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

daArch said:


> I disagree, YET I print most things I write by hand.
> 
> It all started a long long time ago in 1967 . . .
> 
> ...


So you CAN teach an old dog new tricks?

Seriously, though, I get that. For the last ten years or so, our other companies have been working on a number of projects with a talented designer and it has led me to work on improving my printing. I've been focusing on architectural lettering style, but there are decades of bad habits to overcome. I started working on that when I got this note from the designer:


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> Assuming you're referring to taking notes via recorder then instead of writing them down? Wouldn't you agree though that memory retention/recall is more effective visually vs auditory?


I think that would be almost as much kinesthetic as visual, but I do agree with your notion. I was actually thinking in terms of taking notes on a laptop/tablet; the audio version has never worked well for me.

Mostly, it was an opportunity to give CA a hard time....


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I believe that any method of capturing information quickly, while having the ability to refer back to it for the actual learning process, requires good organizing. I developed my own method for doing this with note taking, but find my audio recordings are a lot more clunkier.

I'm going to try and transfer some written notes to a more visual interpretation this semester. Even the final projects have typically been power point presentations that incoorporate text, with visual and oratory communication. The instructors frown on any added audio affects. 

It's really interesting to me that much of the learning value is placed on communication and presentation rather than on substantive evidence or detail.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

CApainter said:


> I believe that any method of capturing information quickly, while having the ability to refer back to it for the actual learning process, requires good organizing. I developed my own method for doing this with note taking, but find my audio recordings are a lot more clunkier.
> 
> I'm going to try and transfer some written notes to a more visual interpretation this semester. Even the final projects have typically been power point presentations that incoorporate text, with visual and oratory communication. The instructors frown on any added audio affects.
> 
> It's really interesting to me that much of the learning value is placed on communication and presentation rather than on substantive evidence or detail.


CA, if you haven't already seen it, get a copy of Edward Tufte's pamphlet on PowerPoint. Tufte is a recognized master of visual presentations. If you really want to get into it, sign up for one of his workshops when he does one in the Bay Area. Cool stuff.

http://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/powerpoint


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Gough said:


> CA, if you haven't already seen it, get a copy of Edward Tufte's pamphlet on PowerPoint. Tufte is a recognized master of visual presentations. If you really want to get into it, sign up for one of his workshops when he does one in the Bay Area. Cool stuff.
> 
> http://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/powerpoint


Thanks! I can see that being a tremendous help. The instructors don't help with design tips of our power point presentations. They just want simple modules that begin with a brief description, current state, and proposal for the future.

It's still very awkward for me to get up in front of twenty people and talk a little about myself and narrate slides. But I'm understanding the value in this type of communication. Especially in a social media world where there is little time afforded to being self conscious while trying to hold an audience's attention for fifteen minutes.

It's as if reality has become so much more a product of entertainment than the contemplative journey that evolved mankind. I'm just another performer trying to win over an audience.


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

CApainter said:


> It's still very awkward for me to get up in front of twenty people and talk a little about myself and narrate slides.
> 
> I'm just another performer trying to win over an audience.


You mean to tell me your PPOTQ status doesn't precede you?


----------



## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

I paint paint said:


> You mean to tell me your PPOTQ status doesn't precede you?


I kind of thought the PPOTQ designation meant that people had to bow down before you as you walked into a room.:vs_stars:

If you don't get that, really what's it worth.


----------



## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I paint paint said:


> You mean to tell me your PPOTQ status doesn't precede you?


I'm like the Chuck Yeager to all of the Neil Armstrongs that have since been recognized. In other words, I was merely the expendable PPOTM/Q test pilot.


----------



## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Gough said:


> So you CAN teach an old dog new tricks?
> 
> Seriously, though, I get that. For the last ten years or so, our other companies have been working on a number of projects with a talented designer and it has led me to work on improving my printing. I've been focusing on architectural lettering style, but there are decades of bad habits to overcome. I started working on that when I got this note from the designer:
> 
> View attachment 58769


Funny thing, Gough, as I think I've told you, I studied architecture (with a surname of archibald, I HAD to) and one of the first classes was lettering. I actually got quite consistent. But whatever good habits I leart, were quickly abandoned as I became more focused on writing a lot in a short amount of time.

And what's really scary, my handwriting is freakishly similar to my father's. Not identical by any means, but close enough to worry me.


----------



## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

daArch said:


> Funny thing, Gough, as I think I've told you, I studied architecture (with a surname of archibald, I HAD to) and one of the first classes was lettering. I actually got quite consistent. But whatever good habits I leart, were quickly abandoned as I became more focused on writing a lot in a short amount of time.
> 
> And what's really scary, my handwriting is freakishly similar to my father's. Not identical by any means, but close enough to worry me.


It's interesting you bring this up Bill. looking over my late father's journals, some time back, I was amazed at how much our writing was similar. I have a tendency to write in caps. Kind of like a mechanical drafter.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

My old man writes in all caps too, I can't read a damn word of it. :no:

Sent from my LG-H810 using Tapatalk


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Gough said:


> I'm impressed.
> 
> A few years ago, I was looking at some of Gough Jr.'s calculations. I thought I'd gotten the gist of what was going on, and made some comment to that fact. He replied that I was looking at it upside down, turned it around, and it was like looking at Sanskrit. It wasn't, it was quantum optics, but just as indecipherable
> to me.


quantum optics is fascinating to me!


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

I paint paint said:


> Why? There has simply never been a practical use for it.
> 
> Or there is some deep-seated political opposition to cursive I am unaware of?


You cannot read the original, un-censored Bill of Rights or the Constitution unless you can read/write cursive. Has it been censored? How would you know if you couldn't go to Philly and read the original for yourself?

When old Adolf came to power in Germany, one the first day he outlawed private ownership of hand guns and rifle except by special permit, and he ordered what was essentially a common core program for the schools. That common core was developed by the Reich office of propaganda and was not even discussed with any educational departments. If you think this can't happen here, well, you really need to take a look at some of the thing your kids are bringing home to study.


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

I have boxes and boxes of handwritten notes from college. Not one of them is decipherable by humans, other then me. I showed some to my mother, a grade school teacher of 37 years, and she couldn't make out one word. I on the other hand, after 29 years, could read them like i was reading a Dr. Suess book. This trick can only be done using "cursive".


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

PACman said:


> You cannot read the original, un-censored Bill of Rights or the Constitution unless you can read/write cursive. Has it been censored? How would you know if you couldn't go to Philly and read the original for yourself?
> 
> When old Adolf came to power in Germany, one the first day he outlawed private ownership of hand guns and rifle except by special permit, and he ordered what was essentially a common core program for the schools. That common core was developed by the Reich office of propaganda and was not even discussed with any educational departments. If you think this can't happen here, well, you really need to take a look at some of the thing your kids are bringing home to study.


As I posted earlier, let's keep this out of the Politics tab...


----------



## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

I learned cursive in school. I've never used it- not even my signature is cursive, it's more of just a scrawl.

When I take notes, it's in a weird cursive/print hybrid that, as many of you have pointed out, is only legible by the author. I think I could have managed this without learning cursive, though.

In reality, there is very little reason for people to learn cursive- it's a dated high society trope that's not practical for use- because most adults can barely read cursive anyways, and having a redundant alphabet doesn't help anyone out. A very small percent of the population could use it occasionally for a formal invitation, thank you note, or the like, but those 1%'ers are going to learn cursive in private school anyways.

Regarding learning, I've always learned best from reading, which I feel puts me at a bit of advantage over most people in a school context; the only times I took notes were when I wouldn't be able to review the material later, and even then I rarely did. I pick up most information from reading it once. Visual learners may not learn as quickly, though I do feel they probably have an advantage in conceptualizing what they're learning.


----------



## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

DrakeB said:


> I learned cursive in school. I've never used it- not even my signature is cursive, it's more of just a scrawl.
> 
> When I take notes, it's in a weird cursive/print hybrid that, as many of you have pointed out, is only legible by the author. I think I could have managed this without learning cursive, though.
> 
> ...


Back in the early nineties when I was in college for my second attempt, I would not have survived certain courses without the ability to write quickly in cursive. Some of my professors based their exams off what they said in class more than what was required reading. Printing was too slow for me. Many exams were in essay form and, again, it was the ability to write in cursive that allowed me to excel.

If laptops are allowed now, I can see how writing has become less important. Heck, I don't even know if actually attending classes in person is required for many courses today. 

I also believe a quill, a jar of ink, and a candle and a personal stamp to seal an envelope are just way cool.


----------



## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

SemiproJohn said:


> Back in the early nineties when I was in college for my second attempt, I would not have survived certain courses without the ability to write quickly in cursive. Some of my professors based their exams off what they said in class more than what was required reading. Printing was too slow for me. Many exams were in essay form and, again, it was the ability to write in cursive that allowed me to excel.
> 
> If laptops are allowed now, I can see how writing has become less important. Heck, I don't even know if actually attending classes in person is required for many courses today.
> 
> I also believe a quill, a jar of ink, and a candle and a personal stamp to seal an envelope are just way cool.


Not only was attendance not required, our professors were not permitted to consider attendance as part of the grade.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

SemiproJohn said:


> Back in the early nineties when I was in college for my second attempt, I would not have survived certain courses without the ability to write quickly in cursive. Some of my professors based their exams off what they said in class more than what was required reading. Printing was too slow for me. Many exams were in essay form and, again, it was the ability to write in cursive that allowed me to excel.
> 
> If laptops are allowed now, I can see how writing has become less important. Heck, I don't even know if actually attending classes in person is required for many courses today.
> 
> I also believe a quill, a jar of ink, and a candle and a personal stamp to seal an envelope are just way cool.


To be contrarian, I tend to write quicker in normal print. That may be to do with practice, but even when they were forcing us to do everything in cursive it still felt clunky to me. You can just drag your pen with print and accomplish the same thing, but better. Just can't count on other people being able to read it 

Perhaps you're right about it helping with note-taking... but then you're still left with the question "is learning another alphabet in school just to help me learn in school really worth it?" It seems self-defeating in some way, like if the teachers didn't waste time teaching cursive they could slow down a little and give you time to write in print.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

I think we all understand that the purpose of language and the written word is to be able to communicate with others, both near and far and over a separation of time.

Grammar is so that we can put words in correct order and syntax so we are understood, and the alphabet is to form the words we are using. In the days before compact, readily available machines with which we print the letters to form the words in proper syntax to convey thought, the most readily available system was handwriting. 

We've seen the historical documents that even the writer must have had problems reading. And so handwriting started to be systematized. By Spencer in the 1800's and then even more famously by Palmer. I found my great-uncle's penmanship book in my mother's hoard. (I've passed it onto the historical society in the old NH ancestral hometown).

There were pages and pages of practice, first the basic strokes, then individual letters, then words and finally short phrases and sentences. Yes, they were attempting to homogenize America's handwriting, to depersonalize it so that it could be read and understood by all - which is the core purpose of language. 

Even with today's i-toys, I would like to know that American children can still write a sentence or two by hand. But as we introduce more shortcut tools, written communication styles and syntax is becoming less universal and more difficult to understand what the writer is trying to convey .

IYKWIM


----------



## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

daArch said:


> Even with today's i-toys, I would like to know that American children can still write a sentence or two by hand. But as we introduce more shortcut tools, written communication styles and syntax is becoming less universal and more difficult to understand what the writer is trying to convey .


Do you mean write a sentence in print or cursive, or just in general? I don't think we're taking print out of schools just yet. 



daArch said:


> IYKWIM


I really didn't, which I suppose proves your point. It's interesting that we're in a time where language is evolving faster than perhaps at any other point in history. I think we all know that language changes, but I also think it's for the betterment of everyone if it's fought tooth and nail along the way. Something is lost when words die or lose their original meanings. If you ken what I mean. I work every day to restore archaisms to light. Personally, I feel language had a clear zenith and is now in decline. We should fight it.


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## tranhsondau (Sep 28, 2015)

110 points - It's not a good result but I think its good enough for an English beginer like me.

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Lớp học vẽ tranh sơn dầu tại Hà Nội


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