# sherwin williams exterior covarage advice needed



## 1 man army (May 26, 2016)

Good evening all,
Im a long time forum lurker, first time poster. 
Ive painted a large number of same color home exterior repaints here in Florida, a fairly decent amount of color change exterior repaints but generally lighter colors to darker colors (greys seem to be the color these days). Ive finally come across a client that cant be dissuaded from changing her two tone very dark forest green and fairly dark green-ey brown house to lighter colors. her current choices seem to be sw7513 sanderling which is a sandy medium dark brown and sw9173 shiitake which is a light sandy beige (how id describe it) 

I plan to spray a coat of clear loxon style sealer to the body to seal in the efflorescence and the ****ty chalky builder paint then apply a thick, sprayed, back rolled coat of either super paint or duration.

What im trying to avoid is painting more than one coat of paint to the body. this technique has always proved successful in achieving that goal in the past but with the dark base colors the house is already im worried even if i step the paint quality up to duration or emerald i wont achieve this and i loose my ass in extra labor and paint. shes not going to like my price to apply two coats to the whole body!! i don't mind having to go back and touch up shadowing on the stucco or the odd light spot!

what do you guys think? is duration worth the extra money? Ive heard bad things about emerald. am i hoping for to much with one coat going from dark to lighter or am i worrying about nothing?

sorry for the long post, any advice is appreciated gentlemen:smile:


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

I would go with Duration. It can go on so much thicker that Super Paint, or even Emerald I think. 

Something I've done before to ensure maximum build (8mil with Duration I believe) is to spray on a generous coat and back roll it. Then immediately spray a few more mil on and leave it alone. 

I don't know how that would go in the FL heat, definitely would need to stay in the shade


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## 1 man army (May 26, 2016)

Jmayspaint said:


> I would go with Duration. It can go on so much thicker that Super Paint, or even Emerald I think.
> 
> Something I've done before to ensure maximum build (8mil with Duration I believe) is to spray on a generous coat and back roll it. Then immediately spray a few more mil on and leave it alone.
> 
> ...


I appreciate the response Jmayspaint, do you think emerald is worth that extra money though? Ive never used it but i hear it isn't! something ive just considered is i could tint my sealer! it would mean spending more time not getting it on the soffit but it would be cheaper and in the long run save more time compared with sealing clear and two coats. if i picked the right color it would help with the color transition. i will admit ive never tinted sealer before though


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## kmp (Jan 30, 2011)

Tinted sealer will give you guess what, tinted sealer with no hide. You need to pressure wash the house if it has efflorescence and any chalky residue. You will need to do two coats but you need to let the first coat dry before you spray a second coat as the pt will fill the voids in the stucco but when it drys it shrinks and can show the original color. You may want to skate on a few steps but you will be fixing it. As for the heat in Florida start early but sooner or later you gotta go to the sunny side of the house. Loxon is good with two coats but it helps to back roll the loxon as well.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

On stucco I'd throw superpaint at it because it will (and needs to) flex. Sp has the elastic qualities in this dept....Duration and emerald will not. Emerald is not worth it's cost either. Upsell the 2nd coat. Emphasize the longevity it will bring at a fraction of the cost. You can up the trim paint to duration if the trim is lumber and that would be cost effective for the reasons you stated but you'll see more cracks and sooner if you use a thick, super tenacious paint on a stucco body in my experience...not to mention the reduced spread rate of duration.

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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

Central Florida eh? You must be not too far from me.

From my experience painting stucco repaints, pressure washing and then sealing is the way to to. I use SealKrete, it has a great spread rate. I haven't used the Loxon clear on repaints but I'm venturing it's more expensive. No matter, sealing is a good thing.

I've used both Duration and Superpaint, but I've mainly used the Duration for repainting over the same color. When I used it, I found that I still ended up two coating to fill the tiny "holidays" that appeared after the first coat had dried (first coat was rolled).

I have found that spraying and back rolling as a one man show isn't much of a time saver, and is a more frantic way to go about it, as the heat where we live speeds up the drying and you have to spray smaller areas, stop to back roll, over and over. I would just roll the darned house if you don't have a helper. Perhaps spray the wall where the power meter and conduit are, but that's about it.

Stucco almost always takes two coats, no matter the color change or type of paint used. Not only to achieve the proper dry film thickness and hide, but to fill all the tiny voids.

I agree with lilpaintchic and suggest using the Superpaint.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

you lost me at 5hitty builders flat and Sherwin Williams. Don't see the dif........never mind.


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## 1 man army (May 26, 2016)

SemiproJohn said:


> Central Florida eh? You must be not too far from me.
> 
> From my experience painting stucco repaints, pressure washing and then sealing is the way to to. I use SealKrete, it has a great spread rate. I haven't used the Loxon clear on repaints but I'm venturing it's more expensive. No matter, sealing is a good thing.
> 
> ...



Yes i agree i always pressure wash thoroughly regardless of any chalkiness (just left that part out) and almost always seal the houses first. i use sealkrete also loxon is too pricey, unless i cant be bothered with the drive to home depot. i will have a helper (if hes shows anyway) so back rolling wont be a problem apart from when i can't stay out of the sun, he'll just have to be right on it in that situation. i feel your pain with the heat id say its almost impossible to back roll by your self! it often drys instantly when it hits the side that was in the sun in the morning when painted after its in shade just because of the heat retention let alone the general air temp. You almost always end up loosing the wet edge which just causes other problems in my experience. 

im not sure i agree with the two coats generally, and im sure that's a subject of great controversy on this site in which id undoubtedly be outnumbered in my opinion. ive had good results with my method of application that only require me to touch up here and there. in terms of longevity, i have houses painted in my way with super paint that still look great 5yrs in and thats with are extreme weather. id be surprised if any paint or application would still look new 10yrs down the line with the extreme uv and temperature changes we get here.

but i respect yall have probably more experience than me. and i think in this case it will be necessary although im not sure shes going to like my increased price to cover the extra materials and labor, do you still go for a thick back rolled second coat or go lighter with the second?


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## 1 man army (May 26, 2016)

PACman said:


> you lost me at 5hitty builders flat and Sherwin Williams. Don't see the dif........never mind.


i could show you a community of $300,000+ homes where i paint in regularly where the 5hitty builder porter paint hasn't lasted a year and a half after being built. ive painted houses with super paint that i see every now and then that still look as good as the day i painted them 5yrs on. and ive got no reason to assume they wont continue to look good for years to come and SP isnt the cream of the crop. i understand not liking Sherwin Williams as a company i don't. but the name hold weight with customers.
ppg and porter are trash from what i see of it.
out of curiosity what do yall prefer? Benjamin Moore?


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

1 man army said:


> i could show you a community of $300,000+ homes where i paint in regularly where the 5hitty builder porter paint hasn't lasted a year and a half after being built. ive painted houses with super paint that i see every now and then that still look as good as the day i painted them 5yrs on. and ive got no reason to assume they wont continue to look good for years to come and SP isnt the cream of the crop. i understand not liking Sherwin Williams as a company i don't. but the name hold weight with customers.
> ppg and porter are trash from what i see of it.
> out of curiosity what do yall prefer? Benjamin Moore?


let me start here :
40 years in the painting trade full time with over 25 years in Central Fl

let's be fair here ..PPG / SW / Ben Moore and many more make good / great / contractors grade and plain crap paint

you can take the "best SW paint" and put it in the hands of a budget painter / GC and get s**t results

was the 5hitty community the result of PPG paint or the painter / contractor
being in Central Fl i would love to know the name of the community so i could do some research ... please share with us

trust me, after 40 years in the trade i think 99% of the time in NC on stucco 
it not the paint ... it's the painter

stucco is not cured / no PH test done / pissed down paint because they went with lowest price/stucco today - paint tomorrow

when you say homes you'v done homes with Super Paint was it repaint? 
NC ? are you comparing NC to repaints?
just trying to see where your coming from /what grade of PPG was used /
did you use the same system as the PPG painter? 

are you comparing Super Paint to PPG Acri shield or what line?

and for everyone's info in Central Fl 95% of NC needs repaint after 5 years because of cheap GC / low bid painters / slam them up / sell them

if you really want to compare SW to PPG look me up /stop by my shop i'll me happy to learn what you can teach me


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## canopainting (Feb 12, 2013)

I have got back to look at 2 coat SuperPaint stucco jobs i completed in 2009 and they are juuuust starting to loose their sheen a little. I am up selling Duration wherever I can now


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## loaded brush (Dec 27, 2007)

canopainting said:


> I have got back to look at 2 coat SuperPaint stucco jobs i completed in 2009 and they are juuuust starting to loose their sheen a little. I am up selling Duration wherever I can now


Eight years later with a slight sheen loss is just about what you'll get out of any exterior paint, IMO.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

i guess i misread this. The question is is the Duration worth paying a little more for than......what? The cheap a55 builders paint? Yes it is. Is Emerald worth the extra money over Durations? Nope. Would Superpaint be good enough? If applied correctly probably yes. 

But you could use products competitive with them from PPG (Porter) and get just as good of a paint.

If people are willing to buy brand new houses painted with cheap a55 builders paint (regardless of the brand, they all have them!) Then the builders and the GC's are going to do it and the paint companies are going to sell it. Every paint company under the sun has tried to convince builders to use a higher grade of paint on new homes without success, so don't blame the paint companies for this. It's either sell the cheap stuff or don't sell it at all. Every time the company i worked for at the time, be it SW OR PPG, went to the builders and tried to sell them on a higher grade paint they were flatly refused. They ONLY wanted the cheapest paint that would get them through any warranty period they were giving on the new home. Nothing any better then that. Believe me, SW and PPG both would rather up-sell and get more profit out of better products, but the builders won't have any of it.

And if Florida is the same as California is with new home construction......we used to sell Promar 400 interior for exterior stucco in San Diego because it was the only flat SW had at the time that could be priced as cheaply as Frazee, Old Quacker, and the other local companies sold exterior flat for. Old Quacker was selling an exterior flat for around $8.00 a gallon in the early 90's. SW had nothing close in their exterior paints. The Promar 400 lasted 18 months or so before it would chalk up so that is what we sold to compete. (they still have an Int/ext promar 400 flat in the southwest region, which is actually just interior PM400. They only sell it in the southwest because it wouldn't last a winter anywhere else.)


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