# Furniture/Cabinet Painting DIY



## Jeepsrt8

Hi everyone. New to the forum and am looking for some assistance. I have been a contractor for well over 15 years. For the past several years I have been building furniture and millwork. Most of my work has been sold stained or unfinished. I have been getting an overwhelming request for a painted finish. Most of my clients would like for a gloss white or grey finish similar to crate and barrel. There words not mine. I have done a lot of research and am looking to get into spraying my pieces. From my research it seems an hvlp is better for millwork and furniture as it is more accurate than an airless system. Would love to hear your thoughts. Since most of my millwork is made in my basement I would like to avoid oil based paint due to fumes and the risk of combustion. I was thinking of using water based enamel that won't yellow over time. I am looking for recommendations on starting equipment and paint. Any other suggestions would be appreciated. Thank you for your help.


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## RH

From the sounds of it, you plan to be doing your painting in the basement. Just to be clear, is that the same area you make your furniture, and if so, will you have any dedicated space that will be just for spraying?


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## Jeepsrt8

RH said:


> From the sounds of it, you plan to be doing your painting in the basement. Just to be clear, is that the same area you make your furniture, and if so, will you have any dedicated space that will be just for spraying?


Yes sir. I was looking to build a spray tent to control any overspray as well as to keep any debris/dirt from falling on the wet paint. Also have a humidifier/dehumidifier as well as a space heater to control the environment.


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## dwallon60

*Sprayer suggestions*



Jeepsrt8 said:


> Hi everyone. New to the forum and am looking for some assistance. I have been a contractor for well over 15 years. For the past several years I have been building furniture and millwork. Most of my work has been sold stained or unfinished. I have been getting an overwhelming request for a painted finish. Most of my clients would like for a gloss white or grey finish similar to crate and barrel. There words not mine. I have done a lot of research and am looking to get into spraying my pieces. From my research it seems an hvlp is better for millwork and furniture as it is more accurate than an airless system. Would love to hear your thoughts. Since most of my millwork is made in my basement I would like to avoid oil based paint due to fumes and the risk of combustion. I was thinking of using water based enamel that won't yellow over time. I am looking for recommendations on starting equipment and paint. Any other suggestions would be appreciated. Thank you for your help.


If you decide on HVLP, make sure to get either a 4 stage or preferably a 5 stage. Make sure to use the proper needle assembly for the coatings you apply. My only concern with HVLP's is there is a constant adjustment needed for the air vs. fluid adjustments. It is kind of like the carburetors on 70's cars. Not to say this is bad, but make sure you play with controls to keep the proper flow. The other option is to use a Finishpro from Graco. These you control more from the tip selection but have more versatility if you wanted to use your sprayer for more than finish work. 
For your paint, make sure that it is not a modified alkyd if you are concerned about yellowing. Cabinet Coat is a possible suggestion (BM product).
:smile:


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## RH

Sorry, don’t have the time right now to go into details but I will share that I have an airless and an HVLP. I use my airless for applying waterbased products and my HVLP for applying stains and clearcoats. I also use the HVLP for applying oil based enamels which I feel respond better to thinning than waterbased enamels do. I would suggest a 5 stage if you pursue the HVLP route.

Use your regular search engine (the PT version sucks) to find recent discussions here about HVLP versus airless setups - there have been a bunch lately.


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## Jeepsrt8

Would an airless system lay down to much paint for furniture? What I have been reading is that a hvlp gives a more smoother finish than an airless.


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## RH

Jeepsrt8 said:


> Would an airless system lay down to much paint for furniture? What I have been reading is that a hvlp gives a more smoother finish than an airless.


There are some here who will say with the right tip and proper thinning, you will be able to spray any product nicely through an HVLP. Others, like me, have had mixed results.

I have a four stage Fuji and it just doesn’t do well with acrylic enamels without fairly extensive thinning, something I don’t like to do because I feel it affects the integrity of the product too much. I do like it for stains and clearcoats, which are naturally thinner products, and oil based enamels which respond better to thinning IMO. HVLPs are easier to get set up, use less product, create less overspray (but still create some), and are easier to clean up.

I have had very good results spraying doors and cabinet components using my 395 equipped with the fflp tips and you would likely be able to get similar results using a similarly set up airless. But by it’s very nature, an airless will require more product, produce more over spray, and take longer to clean than an HVLP unit.

Others will surely chime in with their views on other products which might suit your needs and which might work better out of an HVLP. And as I said in my earlier post, there are a lot of recent threads about these very same questions and issues.


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## Tprice2193

@Jeepsrt8 - The products and tools used to finish furniture are the same that are used for cabinets. You mostly use stains and clear coats applied, I assume, by hand. Customers have asked you to paint their cabinets. So do you have to become a painter to finish or refinish cabinets with pigmented topcoats? The answer is no. Do not become a painter. The polyurethanes and lacquers you use now come in pigmented versions which work extremely well with a turbine HVLP. 
You can replace your stain with a pigmented surfacer and then clearcoat that just like you would stain. Waterbourne pigmented lacquers applied with an HVLP can provide that factory ultra smooth finish. Heck you can even wet sand and polish them. Painters when asked to paint cabinets will, by in large use their tools and products. This will be an airless and paints such as PPG Breakthrough or other products that they commonly use to paint trim. I just can't imagine using an airless to paint a rocking chair. An HVLP will allow you point accuracy while the airless lays down lots of paint quickly without nearly as much control. Unless you are going to be painting walls I would get a good turbine HVLP and use it with Kem Aqua Plus or general finishes Enduro white or black poly. Use it on furniture or cabinets it doesn't matter.


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## ThreeSistersPainting

An airless will give you a wider range of products you can use and would be a good starting point for someone getting into spraying. HVLP would be a great asset down the road, it takes some tinkering with gun settings as well as product preperation.

Tprice has a good point though, if your spraying lacquers or polys already, I would check into pigmented versions as they are very popular right now.

https://oem.sherwin-williams.com/products/wood/pigmented-wood-finishes/

Top cabinet door was sprayed with an airless using Durapoxy
Bottom cabinet was sprayed with Pre-Cat pigmented lacquer


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## Tprice2193

@ThreeSistersPainting - I am trying to match your pictures to the two products. Can you please clarfy and tell us specific products and whether HVLP or airless Both are excellent finishes however I really like the small door on the left better. The generalization I tried to make earlier is when painting cabinets a painter will use paint and an airless. A furniture finisher will use pigmented lacquers or poly with an HVLP to achieve their results. More than a few of us swing both ways and will use a mixture of products. BTW I am really liking the GF Enduro white poly thru HVLP. I don't have to thin or futz with it. Just be careful to watch the mils it will microbubble. I am going to get a can of black poly to see how that works and see if I can mix to make 50 shades of gray. I would definitely like to try whatever you finished the small door with.


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## RH

Tprice2193 said:


> @ThreeSistersPainting - I am trying to match your pictures to the two products. Can you please clarfy and tell us specific products and whether HVLP or airless Both are excellent finishes however I really like the small door on the left better. The generalization I tried to make earlier is when painting cabinets a painter will use paint and an airless. A furniture finisher will use pigmented lacquers or poly with an HVLP to achieve their results. More than a few of us swing both ways and will use a mixture of products. BTW I am really liking the GF Enduro white poly thru HVLP. I don't have to thin or futz with it. Just be careful to watch the mils it will microbubble. I am going to get a can of black poly to see how that works and see if I can mix to make 50 shades of gray. I would definitely like to try whatever you finished the small door with.


In order to get those fifty shades in that poly, you may have to whip it instead of just mix it.


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## ThreeSistersPainting

Larger door is Satin Durapoxy shot through my old 440 impact with a plain 310 tip. Customer picked up a spare door for the sample piece which received a glaze. Spent about 30 minutes on it.

Smaller door was Rudd ChromaCat (White Pre-Cat) shot through my old graco 395 PC with a 308 tip. The kitchen was previously lacquered with clear so I just buffed them and fogged the first coat. Sprayed a cover coat for the second, then finished them off with a nice 3-4 mil coat.

Both of these were done a couple years back before I was using hvlp. I have since switched to water-borne lacquers (pigmented and clear) and I shoot them out of my SprayIt LVLP. Painted surfaces look different than lacquered surfaces, the feel is also different... to me atleast.


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## Tprice2193

Thanks for the info ThreesistersPainting. I really like that pigmented lacquer door. I am surprised you got that smooth of a finish with airless. How about detail work like a rocking chair? HVLP or Airless? I have not given airless a fair trial on cabinets so I am not that knowledgeable about what it can do in the right hands.


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## Jeepsrt8

Tprice2193 was the pictures you attached to your message done with a pigmented lacquer? Very nice job btw!


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## Jeepsrt8

I want to thank everyone for posting so far. This has been really helpful for trying to decide which route to take. I think the next step for me is testing out a few pieces of equipment on some old cabinet doors. The only way for me to see what I like is to get my hands dirty. My local hd has a Graco Pro210 I can rent for the weekend and a Titan HVLP setup as well. My plan is to pick up some paint from SW and BM. Test those using the Airless and then pick up some pigmented lacquer to try with the HVLP. I will let everyone know how it goes. Hopefully, it goes well enough to post some pictures.


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## Mr Smith

Most furniture & cabinet shops use a Kremlin setup with a compressor. If you want the best finish look into that rig.
https://www.sames-kremlin.com/canada/en/product-30c25-airmix-pump-xcite-spraying-unit.html


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## Tprice2193

Jeepsrt8 - That product is generalfinishes Enduro white poly Semi Gloss. It would probably be classified as a waterboure lacquer. I shoot it unthinned though Graco 4900 4 Stage HVLP Edge II plus gun with #3 needle. I set turbine on stage 2 and turnback material and air on gun to about 75 percent. For cabinets I shoot two coats vertical, wet sand the fronts with 600 and spray a 3-4 mil coat horizontally on fronts only. Attached is a front and back to show you difference in finish quality between fronts and back


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## RH

Tprice2193 said:


> Jeepsrt8 - That product is generalfinishes Enduro white poly Semi Gloss. It would probably be classified as a waterboure lacquer. I shoot it unthinned though Graco 4900 4 Stage HVLP Edge II plus gun with #3 needle. I set turbine on stage 2 and turnback material and air on gun to about 75 percent. For cabinets I shoot two coats vertical, wet sand the fronts with 600 and spray a 3-4 mil coat horizontally on fronts only. Attached is a front and back to show you difference in finish quality between fronts and back
> View attachment 100930
> View attachment 100938


Just for clarification, what was the prep and application difference (if any) between the front and back? Just asking because in the top pic (back) I see quite a pronounced orange peel showing up. With the other pic (front) it is hard to get a feel for how the finish turned out due to the lack of light off the surface and the distance the shot was taken from. Not trying to be critical, just trying to determine exactly what it is you are wanting us to see. Can you post a different pic of the front of the doors giving us a better idea as to how it turned out and how it is different from the back?


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## Mr Smith

ENDURO PIGMENTED WHITE POLY

How can a waterbased paint be combustible?

Danger: Contents are COMBUSTIBLE. Keep away from heat and open flame. Application materials or other waste soaked with this product may spontaneously catch fire if improperly discarded. Immediately after use, place rags, steel wool or waste in a sealed, water-filled, metal container. Dispose of in accordance with local fire regulations.

CAUTION: Contains ALIPHATIC HYDROCARBONS. VAPOR HARMFUL. Use only with adequate ventilation. DELAYED EFFECTS FROM LONG-TERM OVEREXPOSURE. Contains solvents which can cause *permanent brain and nervous system damage.* Intentional misuse by deliberately concentrating & inhaling the contents can be harmful or fatal.

Warning
This product contains a chemical known to the State Of California to cause* cancer and birth defects*. Do not swallow; first aid: drink water to dilute product. May cause eye or skin irritation; first aid: flush eyes thoroughly with water.


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## RH

Mr Smith said:


> ENDURO PIGMENTED WHITE POLY
> 
> How can a waterbased paint be combustible?
> 
> Danger: Contents are COMBUSTIBLE. Keep away from heat and open flame. Application materials or other waste soaked with this product may spontaneously catch fire if improperly discarded. Immediately after use, place rags, steel wool or waste in a sealed, water-filled, metal container. Dispose of in accordance with local fire regulations.
> 
> CAUTION: Contains ALIPHATIC HYDROCARBONS. VAPOR HARMFUL. Use only with adequate ventilation. DELAYED EFFECTS FROM LONG-TERM OVEREXPOSURE. Contains solvents which can cause *permanent brain and nervous system damage.* Intentional misuse by deliberately concentrating & inhaling the contents can be harmful or fatal.
> 
> Warning
> This product contains a chemical known to the State Of California to cause* cancer and birth defects*. Do not swallow; first aid: drink water to dilute product. May cause eye or skin irritation; first aid: flush eyes thoroughly with water.


It is more than a little contradictory. Would guess what you posted is a generic warning for their products. The SDS for the specific product states there is no fire or explosion hazard associated with it. Their site should have one or the other listed, not both.


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## Tprice2193

@RH - Focus and zoom in on flash. I have posted a few more. Backs were kinda rough and don't normally do a lot to fix this. However I have similar issue with minor orange peel on all vertical surfaces. The frames can be polished out but thats a little too much work. Thats the reason I just wet sand the fronts and do a horizontal float out. 
Actually doesn't take much more time than a normal dry sand between coats. I use BIN as my primer.


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## sayn3ver

I think turbine hvlps and most waterborne products just is not a good fit. The heated dry air causes issues. Not saying it can't be done. 

For a furniture maker a conventional compressor setup with a pneumatic pressure fed hvlp gun/conversion gun or setup with a pressure pot would be better than a turbine setup which is designed for convienient onsite finishing with it's portability. 

I think a pneumatic aaa setup like a ca technologies or Kremlin setup would work out better. Especially if most of his work gets the same product sprayed on. 

The turbine hvlp is good for stains and solvent borne coatings that can be thinned and retarded. I haven't shot any clear waterborne products with my turbine yet. 

Definitely search. Lots and lots of these questions. I had many of the same myself .

I've found out through trial and error what alot of the more seasoned guys have been preaching. Trial and error will teach you very quickly. 

Or buy the turbine hvlp and spend alot of time playing with reductions, application temperatures, heating your product above ambient, and searching and buyimg various products to try and find something that will give you the results you are looking for. Make and shoot a ton of samples. 

I picked up an airless after struggling, and with a splash of extender or straight out of the can, you can lay down some real nice work with a x08 or x10 sized fine finish tips at low pressures (1000psi or less). With the aaa guns and flat fine finish tips it can be even nicer.


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## Tprice2193

Turbine HVLP's are not suited for most waterbourne products? If you are including waterbourne lacquers in that opinion I am obliged to disagree! I had some of those problems when spraying the 2010 formulation of Proclassic latex, but found them very manageable. When I tried waterbourne lacquers the problems you mentioned went away. I had some microbubbles from trying to lay it on too thick but thats about it. The OVERHEATING turbine can be controlled by turning the darn thing down. You don't need all that air for WB lacquers or BIN. I do have some minor orange peel on frames since they must be sprayed vertical. I am constantly looking to improve my process so I can be convinced. I would welcome some pics of frames or doors sprayed by airless vertically with waterbourne lacquer. A higher quality finish with affordable portable equipment will get my vote. IMHO turbine HVLP's are suitable for waterbourne lacquers pigmented or clear. Airless is best suited for waterbourne paint such as Breakthrough, Advance, Emerald, Proclassic and a myriad of others.


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## sayn3ver

That orange peel on the frames in those examples is not acceptable to me. I don't know if those were sprayed previously by someone else and that was just a scuff sand and recoat but if you can't spray vertically with the hvlp and waterborne lacquers then it's kinda useless for most of residential work. How do you spray casings or crown or baseboards? How would the orginal poster spray a piece of furniture that typically has a bunch of verticals? 

Spraying doors vertically for cabinet jobs saves time and space. 

I have never sprayed proclassic. I've had decent luck with breakthrough and cabinet coat thinned through hvlp but the sheen definitely gets knocked down and it needs thinning and extender. I can get it to lay down pretty well. My issue is the overspray is dry and dry sprays adjacent surfaces I just coated (say spraying a door jam).

Maybe I need a couple lessons from an experienced user to fix my spray order/technique. Airless and a ff has a much lower learning curve.


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## Tprice2193

Thank you for your critique of my work and the issues I am having with vertcal surfaces. I intentionally did the flash so I and anyone else could zoom in on it. Sort of like looking at the finished surface through a magnifying glass. I have not seen anyone post pics in this manner. 
After all who wants their work examined with a magnifying glass. One of the ways I tell if my finish is smooth is I feel of it. Threesisters painting illuded to this in this thread. Attached below is the same area over the stove without the flash to see what you would normally see. You are correct there are "uncorrected" substrate issues in addition to orange peel on the frames. Initial sand was insufficient. I have HVLP sprayed BT and Emerald Trim with significant thinning with water. They flow out better on vertcal surfaces than WB lacquer but I have the same loss of sheen thay you described. I dont use wb lacquer on trim for repaints I use the new formula proclassic latex with brush and HVLP. To address the original posters inquiry we probably have given him enough information to get make his decision air line ess or hvlp. I on the otherhand am still waiting to see pictures of actual work so I can reasonably compare it to my work and alter my processes accordingly. I understand the reluctant nature of painters to put their work up for critique. Most times our customers are happy but we know where the the flaws are at. Its always a compromise to me as what is good enough. The customer it this case did not say it was good enough...he said he could believe how well they came out. So I got paid and he is happy but I am still trying to minimize that vertical orange peel.


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## RH

Tprice2193 said:


> Thank you for your critique of my work and the issues I am having with vertcal surfaces. I intentionally did the flash so I and anyone else could zoom in on it. Sort of like looking at the finished surface through a magnifying glass. I have not seen anyone post pics in this manner.
> After all who wants their work examined with a magnifying glass. One of the ways I tell if my finish is smooth is I feel of it. Threesisters painting illuded to this in this thread. Attached below is the same area over the stove without the flash to see what you would normally see. You are correct there are "uncorrected" substrate issues in addition to orange peel on the frames. Initial sand was insufficient. I have HVLP sprayed BT and Emerald Trim with significant thinning with water. They flow out better on vertcal surfaces than WB lacquer but I have the same loss of sheen thay you described. I dont use wb lacquer on trim for repaints I use the new formula proclassic latex with brush and HVLP. To address the original posters inquiry we probably have given him enough information to get make his decision air line ess or hvlp. I on the otherhand am still waiting to see pictures of actual work so I can reasonably compare it to my work and alter my processes accordingly. I understand the reluctant nature of painters to put their work up for critique. Most times our customers are happy but we know where the the flaws are at. Its always a compromise to me as what is good enough. The customer it this case did not say it was good enough...he said he could believe how well they came out. So I got paid and he is happy but I am still trying to minimize that vertical orange peel.


Maybe I missed it but what examples of spraying are you wanting to see? Quite a few of us have posted pics of our work in the past but maybe you are wanting to see something specific such as a certain process or particular product.


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## RH

For example, here is a shot of a door from a group of seven I did a few weeks ago. Graco 395 with 310fflp tip, shooting Proclassic water based satin.


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## Tprice2193

RH you have posted some nice pics. Not sure what it was you had painted but you had some closeups showing the grain in the oak. The issue at the time was whether to take the time filling the grain or save the time and go with a natural look. The pictures you posted convinced me to go with the hint of grain. A picture is worth a thousand words. 
Specifically I am looking for a quality waterbourne finish on a vertical surface applied with an airless. I know what I can do with my turbine hvlp but I would like to do better without going solvent based. I have heard that higher quality finishes can be had with an airless in this situation. I am doubting this claim. If I saw pictures taken in a way that the viewer can see the good and the not so good. Then we have a chance for valid comparisons. Did you zoom in on 
the flash area and were you able evaluate the finish good or bad? Did you think the door looks good but the frames need work? Did the flash photo technique help in the evaluation ? The variable is application eqipment.. turbine hvlp vs airless...the relative constants are surface prep, primer, waterboure lacquer, and vertical surfaces. Sorry for all the questions....Thanks for your efforts to get to the bottom of things. Oh before I forget...you suggested I whip my paint vs mixing it?


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## Tprice2193

RH regarding that pic of the door airless waterbased proclassic satin. Looks great! Was is sprayed vertical or horizontal? Looks dead smooth. Can you take a flash pic straight on about 18 inches away? I can definitely agree with proclassic via airless. I still use it but not for cabinets anymore


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## RH

Tprice2193 said:


> RH regarding that pic of the door airless waterbased proclassic satin. Looks great! Was is sprayed vertical or horizontal? Looks dead smooth. Can you take a flash pic straight on about 18 inches away? I can definitely agree with proclassic via airless. I still use it but not for cabinets anymore


Those doors were sprayed while flat, something I always do unless it’s a super heavy front door. I don’t have the doors any long so can’t take further pics. SW’s satin tends to have less sheen than other brands so not much light was reflected back from them - but they did come out super smooth.

I personally think the straight on flash pic makes it a bit tougher to see what is going on. The best images that I have seen posted seem to be those where a bright light is shining across a surface towards the camera. With my door pic, I just used the overhead shop lights for illumination, although I did have a flash on the camera. 

I am terrible about remembering to photograph my work but will go back and try to find and post a few other pics other than the ones with the oak graining you already saw.


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## Tprice2193

Thanks @RH for getting back with me...when you throw in special lighting you will get even less pictures. This is so easy... just walk up to the door and pop a flash pic. Helped me redefine the need for good prep. I have some ideas of how to fix the hvlp vertical orange peel with waterbourne lacquer, if its practical. I am going to try my airless again too. It may even be to time to go AAA. Pretty sure it would pay for itself pretty quickly. What is your experience with waterbourne lacquers? If so which products? Do you use your HVLP or airless to apply them?


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## RH

Tprice2193 said:


> Thanks @RH for getting back with me...when you throw in special lighting you will get even less pictures. This is so easy... just walk up to the door and pop a flash pic. Helped me redefine the need for good prep. I have some ideas of how to fix the hvlp vertical orange peel with waterbourne lacquer, if its practical. I am going to try my airless again too. It may even be to time to go AAA. Pretty sure it would pay for itself pretty quickly. What is your experience with waterbourne lacquers? If so which products? Do you use your HVLP or airless to apply them?


Have not done any WBLs. Really should based on what others are sharing about it. But then, these days I’m tending to throw cabinet jobs to a painter buddy of mine.


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## Center_line_Painting

@Tprice2193

Here's a close up photo of a bathroom cabinet door. A fresh set I received from a kitchen company here--- bare wood- BIN- Breakthrough. 
Breakthrough was shot through #4 tip capspray 115 just a dash of water.
Shot vertical. 

I wouldn't use that system for higher production requirements though. I usually thin a little more if I want it that smooth and fast. The lower sheen isn't an issue.

Passes fingernail test. Good enough for me, and my customers, until it is a healthy life choice to spend on an AAA. Probably a few years down the road in my world.


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## Tprice2193

@Center_line_Painting - Thanks posting pics and sharing. Nice looking finish! Light at that angle and zooming in confirms. You have convinced me to go ahead and try this gallon I have had sitting around for a month. Probably will also try the Ultraplate that was previously suggested. One or the other or both will probably solve my vertical orange peel issue. Wonder what the gloss will look like? If it's semi-gloss it would be about right. Probably will show some imperfections Were you running turbine wide open?


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## sayn3ver

Just an FYI. I'm trying to be constructive, nothing personal regarding the examples you posted. Not every job can warrent the prep of an automotive smooth finish.

But rule of thumb for me is if you can see the orange peel in a small photo online, then itll definitely be prominent in real life. 

Most of my own personal "orange peel" issues I struggle with is a molted look in the sheen of the surfaceb when looking at the specular reflection. 

Ive come to accept it's the character of acrylic enamels. Even sample pieces shot horizontal and flooded on display it. 

Don't get me wrong these surfaces feel smooth to the touch. They look smooth and it's something a typical person probably wouldn't notice. 

My struggles have the paint looking like alot of oem finishes now on cars. Lots of molting and light orange peel in some factory paintjobs on cars. I probably attribute that to the cost of the additional labor to correct it and the fact they are shooting waterborne/based products too.

Again I didn't mean any harshness in my original comment. More so, If a product can only be shot horizontal, I was suggesting maybe find a different one with an easir workability.



Tprice2193 said:


> Thank you for your critique of my work and the issues I am having with vertcal surfaces. I intentionally did the flash so I and anyone else could zoom in on it. Sort of like looking at the finished surface through a magnifying glass. I have not seen anyone post pics in this manner.
> After all who wants their work examined with a magnifying glass. One of the ways I tell if my finish is smooth is I feel of it. Threesisters painting illuded to this in this thread. Attached below is the same area over the stove without the flash to see what you would normally see. You are correct there are "uncorrected" substrate issues in addition to orange peel on the frames. Initial sand was insufficient. I have HVLP sprayed BT and Emerald Trim with significant thinning with water. They flow out better on vertcal surfaces than WB lacquer but I have the same loss of sheen thay you described. I dont use wb lacquer on trim for repaints I use the new formula proclassic latex with brush and HVLP. To address the original posters inquiry we probably have given him enough information to get make his decision air line ess or hvlp. I on the otherhand am still waiting to see pictures of actual work so I can reasonably compare it to my work and alter my processes accordingly. I understand the reluctant nature of painters to put their work up for critique. Most times our customers are happy but we know where the the flaws are at. Its always a compromise to me as what is good enough. The customer it this case did not say it was good enough...he said he could believe how well they came out. So I got paid and he is happy but I am still trying to minimize that vertical orange peel.


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## Center_line_Painting

@Tprice2193 I'm unfamiliar with the term- "turbine wide open," but I'm guessing that means full blast. If so, yes. 
I've been doing 6 stage with breakthrough, 4 stage with BIN. 
I've actually never tried the gloss, save for brushing out some black once on a demo. It leveled better, smelled more, coverage was actually superb...about all i can say about it...shiny.. 

I'm happy with the satin results. Every customer has been too. Not to say "this is the best thing ever" but, totally suffices for making a living. I can sleep well. 

I too will order some ultraplate, but that'll be in some months. I'm aiming to take a break from cabs and get some more fresh air.


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## Center_line_Painting

The orange peel could be your unit, perhaps...I remember you mentioning it was a graco.
idk how much power you have to play with.
A customer just managed to get me some KA+ (which I've been asking around for...for over a year now) I'll test it out this week or next maybe and see how things show up on some test doors.


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## Tprice2193

@Center_line_Painting - thanks for your insights. When you try the KA + you will probably get frustrated. Be patient and keep trying different things. I run it on stage 2 with a #3 tip same as I run BIN. It is very similar to the Enduro white poly. I have an old unit GRACO 4900 4 stage. I have updated the gun to a Graco Edge II Plus which pressure feeds instead of siphon feeds. When I spray Proclassic or Emerald I thin it and put flotrol in it. I use stage 4 and #4 needle. On vertical surfaces I have a finish almost as good as the door you posted but those two products take a while to cure so I went with the waterbourne lacquers. Bottom line there are frustrating tradeoffs between waterbourne lacquers and paint. Breakthrough and Ultraplate may have bridged some of these tradeoffs. Enjoy your outside work and let us know how you like the KA+.


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## Tprice2193

@sayn3ver - No offense taken. I appreciate everyone sharing their opinions and you were constructive in your analysis. You identified a poorly prepared substate right off the bat. I really don't know if an airless will lay on a waterboure lacquer on a vertical surface in a manner that either of us would be satisfied with. I have noticed some of your other posts and we maybe in a similar place with regard to quality. You are right about automotive finishes and orange peel. It is odd that auto finishes and application techniques are so similar to ours. Thanks again for your feedback. I have a feeling that these issues will remain controversial.


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## FernandO

There are a lot of wood preservatives on the market. And they all leave the wood structure visible. What's better is a very controversial question - usually every sandman praises his swamp, the one who processed - that's either good or bad. In general, the topic is still turning into a great debate.
Each composition has its own characteristics. For some formulations need a preliminary primer, for some it is not. Some contain oil, some do not. Some are suitable for wet wood, some only need to paint on dry wood. Since there are so many formulations, and color charts are very different - to tell you something is very difficult. Compounds differ in price, color, durability, coating (matte, glossy), water resistance. As a rule, we use the best outdoor sectional. The number of layers - depends on how your wood absorbs paint, how it lays, and what degree of ""richness"" of color you need. Usually a minimum of 2 coats.


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## jennifertemple

Even with water base you need to insure you have excellent ventilation, there are lots of unhealthy things in all paints that should never be breathed.


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