# I low balled a job then got accused of over charging !!



## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

So a few weeks ago I took a job to remove wallpaper. the paper was all vinyl over plaster and I had a good feeling that it would all pull and pole sand down smooth in 1 day so I jumped on it at $1,650 figuring the next guy would be at least double or tripple my number so i could save the lady some money and maybe get the painting bid afterwards. Well that didnt work but in the end I actually bid it perfectly ...$1,650 .... 2 guys 1 day .....well more like 20 man hours total. well $1,600... i got shorted 


well it all pulled easy but the glue (Bill, its glue) was completely dried out an wasn't gonna sand down without using power tools....sometimes you get lucky and it sands off nice but not this time so I just pole sanded it down then planned on oil priming it all followed by 1-2 top coats. she sent me out a check for $1,600 last week then when I asked for the additional $50 she sent this reply ...btw there was 10 areas of wallpaper.... 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, large hallway,dining,living,office and kitchen...PLUS closets 





*I was told by my real estate agent and 3 other painting companies/men I had in for estimates that the wall paper removal was not completed. Walls still have all the glue all over them and will need to be scrubbed and maybe sanded before they can complete priming and painting. Not to be brutal but they all said, "all he did was pull the paper down. The hard part and real work is getting the glue off..."*

*Its only $50 but given the state of the job as reported to me by them, it seems $1600 is likely way more than i should have paid.*


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## Brian C (Oct 8, 2011)

man, you shouldn't have asked for the extra $ 50- and then she would not have been so indignant at you.


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

I'd put a lien on the house, that will show her. Old biooootch!!


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## Boco (May 18, 2013)

Maybe you should have bid the glue removal seperately. So you pulled the paper off but then left all the glue? Thats seems legit. lol. Why would you throw in a low ball price anyways? If your so worried about your 50 bucks go finish the job. I am sure she would gladly pay you. Rather then have the next guy bill for it and pay them the highball rate.


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

She probably wants you to put some wallpaper glue remover in a garden sprayer, wet the wall, and then use a broad knife to scrape it off.

I'd take the $1600 and call it a (pretty good) day


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## glennb (Mar 7, 2012)

so did you remove the glue or is there still chunks all over the wall? i don't see how you got shorted if you didn't removed the glue.. $1650.00 for the job, $300 materials? 67.5 an hour per man. not a bad earn for 1 day


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## glennb (Mar 7, 2012)

hey brian i just google 'indignant', nice. 

hey have you sign up to the accredited members Facebook page?


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

Boco said:


> Maybe you should have bid the glue removal seperately. So you pulled the paper off but then left all the glue? Thats seems legit. lol. Why would you throw in a low ball price anyways? If your so worried about your 50 bucks go finish the job. I am sure she would gladly pay you. Rather then have the next guy bill for it and pay them the highball rate.



I bid it for removal and then a quick sand .... And thats exactly what I did. This isn't the Taj Mahal ... She just wanted it painted to sell. It was fine until the next painter showed up. Btw he got the painting bid.... $3,000 less then my bid so he's def no high baller. My angle was low removal high paint but it all blew up in didn't work out


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

glennb said:


> so did you remove the glue or is there still chunks all over the wall? i don't see how you got shorted if you didn't removed the glue.. $1650.00 for the job, $300 materials? 67.5 an hour per man. not a bad earn for 1 day



Glue is all still there. You have to understand we're talking about An entire house here not just a few rooms. I never intended to remove all of the glue just a quick sand then paint ....normally bid would have been $400 per room or something an then I would have removed all of the glue but not for $1,650 total ..no way


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

Brian C said:


> man, you shouldn't have asked for the extra $ 50- and then she would not have been so indignant at you.



I had a feeling in the beginning something was up when she "accidentally" forgot the $50..... That's an old trick... Hold a 50 then find a way to keep it


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## Boco (May 18, 2013)

How much did he charge to remove the glue you left?


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

Boco said:


> How much did he charge to remove the glue you left?



$5,500.... Remove all of the glue in the entire house.... Prime all the walls and ceilings... 2 coats on all of the walls and 1 coat on all of the trim (old school trim and sash windows)


No way he's doing all of that .....he's not gonna remove the glue he's just gonna paint over it


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

Ole34 said:


> My angle was low removal high paint but it all blew up in didn't work out


I hate when that happens!

Anytime I'm awarded 1/2 of a job, I consider that a red flag.

I bet you will too from now on.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

These are just quick photos.... There's more wall space along with all of the closets.....


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

Steve Richards said:


> I hate when that happens!
> 
> Anytime I'm rewarded 1/2 of a job, I consider that a red flag.
> 
> I bet you will too from now on.



Partly my fault I lost the painting bid an forced her to get a 2nd bid.... I figured since I was low on the paper I could come in strong on the paint ... I came in a little too strong but nothing crazy just bid it by the numbers as I saw them.... Forgot to hit the "here let me save you some money while I lose some money" button


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

Ole34 said:


> he's not gonna remove the glue he's just gonna paint over it


Tell her to be sure and check it. She should be able to feel (if not see) any residual glue.

That way the other guy gets screwed a little bit too.:thumbsup:


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

I have to stop my gambling ways with these bids... It's weird but I kind of enjoy the rush you get when you take risks... I need to just bid by the numbers an let the pieces fall were they fall. 

It never works out in the long run. Like they say in the military "slow is steady an steady is fast"..... Just bid by the numbers all the time an no issues


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

You see all of those rooms??.... Any cheaper an she would have been owing my helper $50 cause I wouldn't have been able to even be there


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

Ole34 said:


> You see all of those rooms??.... Any cheaper an she would have been owing my helper $50 cause I wouldn't have been able to even be there


heh..yeah. I understand. Go have a beer, Ole.
I think I will too. G'nite.


Note:
The word "glue" was used in the OP, and I continued with it in order to maintain continuity and avoid confusion for future cursory thread readers.

My apologies to Chrisn.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

Ole34 said:


> I actually bid it perfectly ...$1,650 .... 2 guys 1 day
> 
> *I was told by my real estate agent and 3 other painting companies/men I had in for estimates that the wall paper removal was not completed. Walls still have all the glue all over them and will need to be scrubbed and maybe sanded before they can complete priming and painting. Not to be brutal but they all said, "all he did was pull the paper down. The hard part and real work is getting the glue off..."*


Ole, when you take on a wallpaper removal job, the walls should be paint ready when you are done. If you left paste residue on all of the walls, the walls were not paint ready. If I was the customer, I would demand an $800 refunded, for the incomplete job and service you provided. 

You should be ashamed of yourself for doing shoddy work and cheating your customer. 

Just giving it to you straight!


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## MSJ Painting (Jan 27, 2013)

I would be pissed if i walked into a job and the glue (for continuity as previously stated in post #19) was still there. You could have primed with gardz, and pulled a quick skimcoat on the walls with lightweight. Maybe just gardz the closets and move on, but those walls can't look good after painting with the glue still there. I'd say you got paid well to do manual labor that a 1st week apprentice could have done. 

I think the bigger issue is that the homeowner had to find out what should have been done by the next guy. If you would have explained what needed to be done to make it right, and then told the HO the extra cost involved, the whole issue could have probably been avoided.


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## Brian C (Oct 8, 2011)

Hmmm, if there is paste under the paint, it can be reactivated and it will be soft under the paint , so you can scratch though the paint with your fingernail easily. .


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## MSJ Painting (Jan 27, 2013)

Brian C said:


> Hmmm, if there is paste under the paint, it can be reactivated and it will be soft under the paint , so you can scratch though the paint with your fingernail easily. .


Even after gardz?


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Steve Richards said:


> heh..yeah. I understand. Go have a beer, Ole.
> I think I will too. G'nite.
> 
> 
> ...


 
and most likely, incorrectly, not impossible ,but most likely, thanks for thinking of me


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

MSJ Painting said:


> Even after gardz?


no, but it will still look bad


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Ole34 said:


> So a few weeks ago I took a job to remove wallpaper. the paper was all vinyl over plaster and I had a good feeling that it would all pull and pole sand down smooth in 1 day so I jumped on it at $1,650 figuring the next guy would be at least double or tripple my number so i could save the lady some money and maybe get the painting bid afterwards. Well that didnt work but in the end I actually bid it perfectly ...$1,650 .... 2 guys 1 day .....well more like 20 man hours total. well $1,600... i got shorted
> 
> 
> well it all pulled easy but the glue (Bill, its glue) was completely dried out an wasn't gonna sand down without using power tools....sometimes you get lucky and it sands off nice but not this time so I just pole sanded it down then planned on oil priming it all followed by 1-2 top coats. she sent me out a check for $1,600 last week then when I asked for the additional $50 she sent this reply ...btw there was 10 areas of wallpaper.... 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, large hallway,dining,living,office and kitchen...PLUS closets
> ...


what make you say that:blink:


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

If you were the guy coming to bid the painting after the paper was removed would you have pointed out that the glue should have been cleaned by the guy who removed the paper? I would have. :yes: Unless you were clear that the $1650 was for paper removal only she knew the glue would be left for the next guy I think she has every right to be disappointed. 

No offense Ole but I think you may have dropped the ball on this one.


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

Rbriggs82 said:


> No offense Ole but I think you may have dropped the ball on this one.


Same here, but I didn't wanna kick the guy while he was down (he's already out 50 bucks).


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

PaintersUnite said:


> Ole, when you take on a wallpaper removal job, the walls should be paint ready when you are done. If you left paste residue on all of the walls, the walls were not paint ready. If I was the customer, I would demand an $800 refunded, for the incomplete job and service you provided.
> 
> You should be ashamed of yourself for doing shoddy work and cheating your customer.
> 
> Just giving it to you straight!


I agree. 

Ole how did you word your estimate, remove all the glue or just sand some then prime it? Did you even tell the HO the process or steps your taking?

Sorry you really dropped the ball on this one. I would have held your whole check until it was fixed correctly.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Steve Richards said:


> Same here, but I didn't wanna kick the guy while he was down (he's already out 50 bucks).


Rbriggs82 and I will.

All this stink over $50.00 for a job Ole did a crappy job on. I wouldn't bother letting $50.00 get to me (hell we lost 20 times that on our last stripping job).
Chalk it up as a lesson learned.


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

After I pull paper, I skip the sanding and go right to the broad-knifing, then scrubbie, then sponge.
It sucks, especially in that stairway. I don't blame Ole for not doing all that for $1650.
The guy that's gonna do it for $5500, and then paint too, is way to low IMO.

He'll probably realize that, try to charge her more, and that will make the lady wish she'd stuck with Ole.

But it'll be too late, cuz she already hurt his GD feelings over the $50.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

cdpainting said:


> Rbriggs82 and I will.


:no: Ole's the man, I'll chalk it up to a miscommunication. Chit happens sometimes. I've given clearly written proposals outlining what will be done and a HO thought more was included. No one's perfect.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

My bid was removal then sanding then oil prime ....I was not biding just the removal if I was I would have bid it for a complete removal. I gave her a cheap price because I wouldn't be removing all of the glue instead I would be priming over it. She knew this as she was planning on selling the house an wanted to save save money. The problem occurred when she only accepted the bid for removal then had another guy come look at the painting so no **** he's gonna be like "he didn't get the glue off".....you guys are forgetting one thing.. My bid was contingent on me also doing the painting.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

chrisn said:


> what make you say that:blink:



I purposely use the term glue to mess with bill


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

Ole34 said:


> The problem occurred when she only accepted the bid for removal then had another guy come look at the painting


When she did that, weren't you (at least)tempted to say, "well then, let him pull the paper too"?

I think I might have.

Like I said, I don't like doin' 1/2 a job.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Ole34 said:


> My bid was removal then sanding then oil prime ....I was not biding just the removal if I was I would have bid it for a complete removal. I gave her a cheap price because I wouldn't be removing all of the glue instead I would be priming over it. She knew this as she was planning on selling the house an wanted to save save money. The problem occurred when she only accepted the bid for removal then had another guy come look at the painting so no **** he's gonna be like "he didn't get the glue off".....you guys are forgetting one thing.. My bid was contingent on me also doing the painting.


Honestly it doesn't matter if you were hoping to get the painting job. You bid the removal and she wasn't happy.

I'm kind of busting your chops. Out of every one here you are the last one I would expect to hear some thing like this from.

We all have low balled jobs to get them some times out of desperation some times with the hopes the job will grow. I learned before even starting my own business for the first time you should never do this. It always bites you in the arse one way or another.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

Steve Richards said:


> When she did that, weren't you (at least)tempted to say, "well then, let him pull the paper too"?
> 
> I think I might have.
> 
> Like I said, I don't like doin' 1/2 a job.



She didn't get the other bids until AFTER I pulled all of the paper... And only because my painting bid was high.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

This is what I'm saying .... It wasn't like she had 3 bids in front of her for paper removal an chose me then I did a half ass job....I provided her a plan from beginning to end to get good results without breaking the bank. You can't go taking apart my plan then holding me accountable for individual parts....


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

cdpainting said:


> Honestly it doesn't matter if you were hoping to get the painting job. You bid the removal and she wasn't happy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



There's nothing wrong with sanding down the glue then oil priming over it ..... That's what I proposed to her. Your starting to get on my nerves with this nonsense that I should have washed the walls when that was never a part of the plan..... That would be like biding to repair a wooden soffit then cap it with metal an having the ho'er only accept the bid to repair the soffit then a 2nd guy comes over an says the soffits not repaired correctly for paint .... Well no **** it's getting capped 


Again, you cant pick apart a system then scrutinize each individual part as if they were all independent projects


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Ole34 said:


> There's nothing wrong with sanding down the glue then oil priming over it ..... That's what I proposed to her. Your starting to get on my nerves with this nonsense that I should have washed the walls when that was never a part of the plan..... That would be like biding to repair a wooden soffit then cap it with metal an having the ho'er only accept the bid to repair the soffit then a 2nd guy comes over an says the soffits not repaired correctly for paint .... Well no **** it's getting capped
> 
> 
> Again, you cant pick apart a system then scrutinize each individual part as if they were all independent projects


Oh well. I have not said you should have washed the walls. Read before putting words in my mouth.

To me this was a butcher job. Sorry if you can't handle me calling it that. Weather you did or didn't communicate your process with the HO some where the ball was dropped hard. If your estimate wording and steps are different than what you told her in person I can see that causing issues.

I wasn't there and can only go by what your posting.


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

I'm not trying to get on your nerves Ole..just trying to understand what happened.
So you gave her 2 bids. one for paper removal, and one for painting. She accepted the first one, and got someone else for the 2nd.

The guy that got the 2nd already knew there'd be (more) glue to remove, and included it in his bid.

If he'd kept his mouth shut instead of complaining about you, there would be no problem.


email her:

_I'm sorry for the misunderstanding. I completed my portion of this job as per our agreement.
Problems often arise when more than one painting contractor is chosen for the same job, as some aspects typically overlap.
I'll bill you for the $50. Have a nice day_.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

Why is it a butcher job?....she was charged $1,650 to remove paper an sand the walls in 10 areas. Phase 2 of the project called for oil priming the walls followed by 2 top coats. She opted to only go with phase 1 and got exactly what she paid for... She knew the walls would stiff be rough and would need to be primed an patched etc etc


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

Steve Richards said:


> I'm not trying to get on your nerves Ole..just trying to understand what happened.
> So you gave her 2 bids. one for paper removal, and one for painting. She accepted the first one, and got someone else for the 2nd.
> 
> The guy that got the 2nd already knew there'd be (more) glue to remove, and included it in his bid.
> ...




Basically yes.... In our initial meeting she explained to me that she wanted the house cleaned up to be sold an what could i do. The plan that I proposed to her was a 2 step plan ... Step one was to remove the paper as cheAp as possible and step 2 would be to paint it knowing full well that there's was gonna be glue residue left and that steps (oil priming) would be takin to deal with this.....I gave her 1 itemized bid where each step was contingent on the next and she chose to just accept one part.....


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

Ok then.

So why's CD giving you crap about not washing the walls?

is he a troublemaker?


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

My train of thought while doing the bid was ok I have to get the paper an glue off but I'm also gonna have to prime all of the bare plaster so why not just leave the glue an sand it since I have to oil prime anyway?.....in my eyes it would make absolutely no sense to wash the walls then oil prime when the entire point of me being there is to offer a cost effective solution to her needs .... Washing the walls an oil priming isn't cost effect for a house that's gonna be sold


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

Steve Richards said:


> Ok then.
> 
> So why's CD giving you crap about not washing the walls?
> 
> is he a troublemaker?



I think Carley usually posts for him... She's probably at work or something an left him the iPad lol


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

Ole34 said:


> My train of thought while doing the bid was ok I have to get the paper an glue off but I'm also gonna have to prime all of the bare plaster so why not just leave the glue an sand it since I have to oil prime anyway?.....in my eyes it would make absolutely no sense to wash the walls then oil prime when the entire point of me being there is to offer a cost effective solution to her needs .... Washing the walls an oil priming isn't cost effect for a house that's gonna be sold


Yup..I got it now.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Steve Richards said:


> Ok then.
> 
> So why's CD giving you crap about not washing the walls?
> 
> is he a troublemaker?





Ole34 said:


> My train of thought while doing the bid was ok I have to get the paper an glue off but I'm also gonna have to prime all of the bare plaster so why not just leave the glue an sand it since I have to oil prime anyway?.....in my eyes it would make absolutely no sense to wash the walls then oil prime when the entire point of me being there is to offer a cost effective solution to her needs .... Washing the walls an oil priming isn't cost effect for a house that's gonna be sold


I never said any thing about washing the walls. I said sanding.

Maybe butcher job was uncalled for. 

Ole I'm not calling you a butcher I do respect you and your work. None of us were there. 

I am now understanding your bids process and steps now.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Ole34 said:


> I think Carley usually posts for him... She's probably at work or something an left him the iPad lol


Carly lurks in the background ready to pounce.


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

cdpainting said:


> I never said any thing about washing the walls


 Well somebody sure as hell did.

I thought is was you. sorry.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

Steve Richards said:


> Yup..I got it now.



She agreed to the deal an was like ok get the paper off first the next phase you can come back and paint.... So I was like "ok"..... Then after i finished the paper she pulled the rug out from under me an brought in another guy who then through me under the bus..... That's when he started his crap about me not completing the paper removal....how are you gonna renegotiate my deal at the end an then hold me to different standards?... That's not cool


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## MIZZOU (Nov 18, 2012)

Hey ole, 

Take the lumps and move onto the next. If it makes you feel any better, I took a complete beat down on a wallpaper job 2 weeks ago. 

Similar situation as the HO was selling the place. I always do T&M on wallpaper but she ensured to me multiple times that they personally sized everything and installed the paper properly. Well she did on the first floor (25 min to remove), but the 2nd floor was a different story. GLUED right to the rock! Luckily it was mostly just border besides a few bathrooms because with the paper, off came the sheetrock paper 😁

When I saw that the scope of work was so drastically different I called to tell her. She said it wasn't in her budget for anymore labor hours but that she would pay for the extra materials. 

So a simple strip job blossomed into a gouge, gardz, skim coat job. I tried to pitch to her that we could skim coat over the border and she wouldn't be able to tell it was there. She got pissy saying that I quoted her for full removal and that skim coating over top wasn't an option. 

Long story short my estimated 4 day project turned into 8. If she wouldn't have been a SW referral I would've walked, but the last thing I need is a HO going into the paint store with a sob story. 

It was the worst beating I've taken in 2014. Even after all the extra I did, she still paraded in 4 family members at check time to inspect everything for flaws. I was so PO I couldn't see straight. My invoice I left her on the counter included the additional supplies cost ($200) that we had discussed. Surprise suprise... Check was made out without the extra $200. 

















That should make you feel better ole 😃


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## MIZZOU (Nov 18, 2012)

Oh also the 1 layer of paper that she "properly installed" turned out to be 4 layers of paper in that bathroom


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

cdpainting said:


> I never said any thing about washing the walls.





Steve Richards said:


> Well somebody sure as hell did.


I went back and read...I guess that was me :whistling2: LOL


Wow Mizz...you got F'd!


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I'm with Ole. If you're not getting paid to remove the wallpaper paste, why remove it. Paste removal can be difficult and time consuming. I removed vinyl off a couple of large rooms with plaster walls a while back. I had to really soak down the paste to help release it because there was no way I would have been able to mechanically remove it without creating a negative impact.

The problem with this particular case is communication. Once you invite more people in to opine or critique, control is lost. This homeowner would have saved herself a lot of grief if she would have just given the entire job to Ole.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

CApainter said:


> I'm with Ole. If you're not getting paid to remove the wallpaper paste, why remove it. Paste removal can be difficult and time consuming. I removed vinyl off a couple of large rooms with plaster walls a while back. I had to really soak down the paste to help release it because there was no way I would have been able to mechanically remove it without creating a negative impact.
> 
> The problem with this particular case is communication. Once you invite more people in to opine or critique, control is lost. This homeowner would have saved herself a lot of grief if she would have just given the entire job to Ole.


 To me this is a given in the bidding process. I have never heard of some one bidding to just remove the paper and not the glue. If it is done at T&M then I don't see it being an issue. A straight up removal bid is the wrong way to bid we all know that. You will always loose your shirt.


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

CApainter said:


> I'm with Ole. If you're not getting paid to remove the wallpaper paste, why remove it. Paste removal can be difficult and time consuming. I removed vinyl off a couple of large rooms with plaster walls a while back. I had to really soak down the paste to help release it because there was no way I would have been able to mechanically remove it without creating a negative impact.
> 
> The problem with this particular case is communication. Once you invite more people in to opine or critique, control is lost. This homeowner would have saved herself a lot of grief if she would have just given the entire job to Ole.


Oh sure , now that you know what's goin' on.

The rest of us had to use pliers to get the whole story.


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

BTW,

Mizz got F'd over way more than Ole did. (I've read his story twice!)

Must be the time of year. People figure business is slow, so they can cheat the painter and it's ok.


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## MIZZOU (Nov 18, 2012)

Steve Richards said:


> BTW,
> 
> Mizz got F'd over way more than Ole did. (I've read his story twice!)
> 
> Must be the time of year. People figure business is slow, so they can cheat the painter and it's ok.



It was probably my worst effing to date. Work is fairly slow right now so the option of throwing up my hands and saying screw this just wasn't there this time. She probably assumed this and took full advantage. 

Like I said, she's damn lucky she was referred by SW. I remember the estimate clearly, she went out of her way to tell me 2 or 3 times that everything had been sized. That's my bad for believing it, but she was so convincing. Makes me wanna start taking a polygraph with me on bids. 

Lier lier pants in FLAMES.

Guess what I'm saying is quit your bitchin ole lmao 😃


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

From what I'm understanding, Ole had originally given her a price from strip to finish. The homeowner decided she only wanted the striping. Consequently, Ole was left with a more difficult paste removal situation than what he was prepared to face had the homeowner allowed him to apply the system he had in mind.


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

MIZZOU said:


> It was probably my worst effing to date. Work is fairly slow right now so the option of throwing up my hands and saying screw this just wasn't there this time. She probably assumed this and took full advantage.
> 
> Like I said, she's damn lucky she was referred by SW. I remember the estimate clearly, she went out of her way to tell me 2 or 3 times that everything had been sized. That's my bad for believing it, but she was so convincing. Makes me wanna start taking a polygraph with me on bids.
> 
> ...


I had kinda the same thing awhile back...exterior.
Guy assured me filler had never been used on his house. As soon as I start sanding...white powder. I shoulda guessed by the way it was peeling (and that's why I specifically asked him about past filler)

I still did ok though, cuz I'd bid it for RRP anyhow. So no horror story..sorry.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

CApainter said:


> From what I'm understanding, Ole had originally given her a price from strip to finish. The homeowner decided she only wanted the striping. Consequently, Ole was left with a more difficult paste removal situation than what he was prepared to face had the homeowner allowed him to apply the system he had in mind.


 
the key part is she waited until i was finished the first part (paper removal) then she brough in another guy to bid the remainder. now remember i started the bid with a house covered in paper and this new guys is starting his bid with the paper already off an glue on the walls so obviously hes gona say the glue needs to be removed 




a good way to look at it is imagine bidding out a kitchen an the HO'er says shes having cabinets installed along 1 wall so not to worry about making them look presentable so you bid just a rough skim to clean them up in preperation for cabinets .... then last minute after your finished she changes her mind an decides no cabinets then brings in another painter to give another painting bid an he calls me hack for not skimming the walls smooth


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

the lady clearly did not understand, if she did she would of told the other painter what to do, oil prime. Clearly a mis - communication between contractor and client, IMO 
what seems like a easy understandable conversation to one person may be a foreign language to the client, it really becomes our job to make sure communication was under stood correctly.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

this isnt about $50 and im not compalining its just that i have a very serious personality and im very passionate about my work.


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

Ole34 said:


> a good way to look at it is imagine bidding out a kitchen an the HO'er says shes having cabinets installed along 1 wall so not to worry about making them look presentable so you bid just a rough skim to clean them up in preperation for cabinets .... then last minute after your finished she changes her mind an decides no cabinets then brings in another painter to give another painting bid an he calls me hack for not skimming the walls smooth


:notworthy:
That was good Ole. I think now even the stupidest of us can understand.

Well..I kinda do anyhow.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Dave Mac said:


> the lady clearly did not understand, if she did she would of told the other painter what to do, oil prime. Clearly a mis - communication between contractor and client, IMO
> what seems like a easy understandable conversation to one person may be a foreign language to the client, it really becomes our job to make sure communication was under stood correctly.


Without the skill of listening, communication can be greatly diminished. The following conditions can cause hearing loss for a person with perfectly good hearing:

1. Multi Tasking

2. Self Absorption


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

CApainter said:


> From what I'm understanding, Ole had originally given her a price from strip to finish. The homeowner decided she only wanted the striping. Consequently, Ole was left with a more difficult paste removal situation than what he was prepared to face had the homeowner allowed him to apply the system he had in mind.


The notion of breaking out sections in bids came up in another thread recently. This one points out another risk in doing that. 

Mizzou's even more painful experience, which gave me flashbacks, by the way, was a reminder about 1). taking clients' word for underlying conditions, and 2). including contract language about those conditions.

We did a partial exterior paint removal for the owner of an analytic lab. Even though it was a much older home, the HO assured us that the paint had been tested and was free of lead. In our proposal, we included, "This proposal is based upon all exterior surfaces being free of lead-based paint...blah, blah, blah." Surprise, surprise, it was loaded with LBP. We had already learned THAT lesson.

One of the quotes in the office:

"Make a mistake once, it's a mistake.

Make a mistake twice, it's a choice."


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

Ole34 said:


> this isnt about $50 and im not compalining its just that i have a very serious personality and im very passionate about my work.


Ole

did you tell the lady hey lady , their will be glue left on the wall and who ever paints it needs to oil prime it??


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## Painter-Aaron (Jan 17, 2013)

No matter what, the wallpaper removal jobs should always he time and material.

I've seen a lot come off easy, but a lot come off hard or end up not coming off at all due to the price

I removed a couple rooms for a lady who wanted to paint herself. I said time and materials. Probably around x amount

They both came off good but one room the walls were atrocious

My point is, you can get to every stage with it and see if they want to take if further. 

I know you were planning on painting but you should always keep the removal time and materials 

And definitely communicate other wise that 1. The price given was inclusive to you doing more work, the standalone price of this is going to be higher. 

And 2. I am not removing any residue paste with this part of this bid, so if you want another painter to finish make sure he bids to remove it or I can add it as an extra


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

Dave Mac said:


> Ole
> 
> 
> 
> did you tell the lady hey lady , their will be glue left on the wall and who ever paints it needs to oil prime it??



Yes definitely ....the reason why she got a great price on the removal is because I was only gonna sand down the glue then oil prime


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

I'm no dummy ... Removal like that to do it right is 1-2 days removal then 2 days washing and cleaning up with another day just to be sure...5 day bid or about $4,500 with 2 guys 



She didn't like those numbers so instead went with plan B..$1,650 ... Removal with a quick sand


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

Ole34 said:


> Yes definitely ....the reason why she got a great price on the removal is because I was only gonna sand down the glue then oil prime


well not much else you could do then imo


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## capn26 (Aug 17, 2014)

Yeah, I understand you got it done in a day, but I think you did a helluva job for her removing that much paper in a day for that price. I've seen people make a career out of removals that big and burn the HO in the process. And the walls still looked like arse. 

I have a small bathroom to skim where the HO removed the paper a year ago. She also removed a large portion of the DW paper as well. Hey she gets points for trying.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

capn26 said:


> Yeah, I understand you got it done in a day, but I think you did a helluva job for her removing that much paper in a day for that price. I've seen people make a career out of removals that big and burn the HO in the process. And the walls still looked like arse.
> 
> I have a small bathroom to skim where the HO removed the paper a year ago. She also removed a large portion of the DW paper as well. Hey she gets points for trying.



He was a hard 10 hour day... Straight through barely a lunch. Technically probably should have been 2 days but it fit perfectly into my schedule so we went for it


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

as I read through this thread, I keep wondering, Ole, did you ever apply water/stripping solution to whatever the adhesive was?

I guarantee that with some adhesives, wetting and broad knifing is faster and more thorough than sanding. 

Now if it was VOV, boarder adhesive, or some other type of protein or polymer GLUE, then sanding may have been the best option, but if you didn't test it with water, I'd like to know what your system for determining the best removal process is.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

All right already! Ole fuc'ed up. Once he's back at Pica de Poopoo, or what ever the hell that awesome Italian Deli was, all this will be far behind him after that first bite of a pizza burger.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

daArch said:


> as I read through this thread, I keep wondering, Ole, *did you ever apply water/stripping solution to whatever the adhesive was*?
> 
> I guarantee that with some adhesives, wetting and broad knifing is faster and more thorough than sanding.
> 
> Now if it was VOV, boarder adhesive, or some other type of protein or polymer GLUE, then sanding may have been the best option, but if you didn't test it with water,I'd like to know what your system for determining the best removal process is.


 

about 2/3's finished with the removal I split off from my guy an hit a few walls with the pump sprayer and warm water... wasn't gonna work out so I abandon ship and went directly to sanding. I would have liked it if the pump sprayer worked out but it didn't.........I was on a tight schedule so I wasn't about to run out an get chemicals an what not and besides this wasn't that type of removal job... I was there to provide a cost effective way to get the property on the market and available for showing PERIOD. 


*''I'd like to know what your system for determining the best removal process is''*


95% of the time in my area a pump sprayer an warm water is more than enough and besides getting the glue off was never a problem it just wasn't factored in with the bid .........sure I could have gotten it all off but on who's dime?? she surely wasn't paying for it so why would I ?.. she paid to have the paper removed an to have the glue either washed or sanded off which ever was more economical in preparation for oil primer ......she got exactly what she paid for.


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

So Ole.. when you used the water-only method, did you at least try a 3M scrubbie? Those work pretty good sometimes.

LOL :jester:

This horse is dead


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## Painter4Life (Oct 11, 2014)

$1,650 for 20 man hours, subtract $25 for contractor trash bags and a pack of sandpaper - free water / labor is: $1,625 / equals - $81.25 per hour. 

Yup, I would say you REALLY low balled the customer.
:drink::tongue_smilie::bangin:


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## Scannell Painting (Sep 25, 2010)

This works excellent for paste removal.
Ole you did good for 1 days work & minimal materials:thumbsup:
Who knows you may be better off without doing the job.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Scannell Painting said:


> This works excellent for paste removal.
> Ole you did good for 1 days work & minimal materials:thumbsup:
> Who knows you may be better off without doing the job.


 what is that thing?:blink:


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

MIZZOU said:


> Hey ole,
> 
> Take the lumps and move onto the next. If it makes you feel any better, I took a complete beat down on a wallpaper job 2 weeks ago.
> 
> ...


The problem here lies with the term" SIZE"( Arch has an article written somewhere but I am too lazy to look it up). If the stupid( as in improperly informed (yes it does happen) ho actually did size the walls, she was just putting on additional watered down PASTE. Guess what? Over drywall, this is not good:no:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Ole,

Obviously none of us were there and we can only surmise what you faced. And far be it from anyone here to be judgmental :whistling2:.

I'm just trying to get all the facts in order to visualize what was there. You said it was vinyl over plaster and you pulled it down. 

Was it a fabric backed commercial vinyl that pulled cleanly off the wall? Or a paper backed vinyl that left the paper substrate?

And was the plaster underneath smooth white finish plaster, or the pitted horsehair? Or was it painted plaster?

Granted, I am not a fan of sanding to remove PASTE as whenever I have seen the results, I've had to wash the residue off to make it smooth, OR sand the oil primed surface because it is quite rough. That's not saying you don't do a better job, I'm only relating what I've seen done up here. 

But that all said, I am still impressed with the amount of work you got done in a short amount of time, no matter what the mis-communication was between you and the HO.


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

My main concern now, is that this thread may make Ole not wanna tell us about his F-ups anymore.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

One of my better f-ups was taking a job to paint a roomful of string-cloth. 
If I remember right, about 60% of my bid price was eaten up in material costs and I spent more time going back to the paint for more oil primer than I had allowed for the entire job. 

If anyone wants to know, coverage for oil primer on string cloth is around 40-50 sq.ft./gallon. And the finish paint doesn't do much better.

And the finished product is not very appealing.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

Painter4Life said:


> $1,650 for 20 man hours, subtract $25 for contractor trash bags and a pack of sandpaper - free water / labor is: $1,625 / equals - $81.25 per hour.
> 
> Yup, I would say you REALLY low balled the customer.
> :drink::tongue_smilie::bangin:






Exactly why I hate the term "low baller"....it's all relative.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

No ones even mentioned LBP!
Shame on you Ole

:whistling2:


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## A+HomeWork (Dec 10, 2010)

Rbriggs82 said:


> If you were the guy coming to bid the painting after the paper was removed would you have pointed out that the glue should have been cleaned by the guy who removed the paper? I would have. :yes: Unless you were clear that the $1650 was for paper removal only she knew the glue would be left for the next guy I think she has every right to be disappointed.
> 
> No offense Ole but I think you may have dropped the ball on this one.


In November, I WAS the painter coming in after a paper removal and by the time I corrected (even repaired) the areas, I added a line item detailing the additional charges. $400 for one room. Glue residue, torn paper, etc.

Bid the job prior to paper removal, but commented the day I showed up to paint that the room was totally jacked up.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Yes I know Ole is PURPOSEFULLY using the wrong terminology just to tweak Chrisn and myself, but for all the rest of you, wallpaper is hung with *PASTE*, not glue.

Paste is starch based, glue is protein or ploymer based. (yes, some situations call for glue, but that's not often)

If you like, we can equate Behr with real paint, make no distinction between exterior and interior coatings, or tell you B.I.N. is suitable as a whole house siding primer. But WE know that ain't so, and thus to be respectful of the trade and not appear to be idiots, we don't.


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## capn26 (Aug 17, 2014)

Shoulda just left the paper and painted over it.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

slinger58 said:


> One of my better f-ups was taking a job to paint a roomful of string-cloth.
> If I remember right, about 60% of my bid price was eaten up in material costs and I spent more time going back to the paint for more oil primer than I had allowed for the entire job.
> 
> If anyone wants to know, coverage for oil primer on string cloth is around 40-50 sq.ft./gallon. And the finish paint doesn't do much better.
> ...


Shoulda asked me before you did it. I did that back in '72. :thumbsup:

good way to build bad stripping karma too


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

daArch said:


> Yes I know Ole is PURPOSEFULLY using the wrong terminology just to tweak Chrisn and myself, but for all the rest of you, wallpaper is hung with *PASTE*, not glue.
> 
> Paste is starch based, glue is protein or ploymer based. (yes, some situations call for glue, but that's not often)
> 
> If you like, we can equate Behr with real paint, make no distinction between exterior and interior coatings, or tell you B.I.N. is suitable as a whole house siding primer. But WE know that ain't so, and thus to be respectful of the trade and not appear to be idiots, we don't.


Pros do it this way. HO's are not that smart. I have seen gorilla glue used to hold paper up. Not that we do much removal but the worst thing to use when you run out of paste and glue is interior wall paint is the next best thing, Yeah sure, remove it and see how much fun it is.


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

Painter4Life said:


> $1,650 for 20 man hours, subtract $25 for contractor trash bags and a pack of sandpaper - free water / labor is: $1,625 / equals - $81.25 per hour.
> 
> Yup, I would say you REALLY low balled the customer.
> :drink::tongue_smilie::bangin:


Take out overhead profit an taxes an ur at about 50. Too cheap imo.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

daArch said:


> Yes I know Ole is PURPOSEFULLY using the wrong terminology just to tweak Chrisn and myself, but for all the rest of you, wallpaper is hung with *PASTE*, not glue.


Having respect for the wall covering guys here, and the fact that I got quite good at hanging some time back, I can't bring myself to call it anything else but paste.


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## Painter4Life (Oct 11, 2014)

bryceraisanen said:


> Take out overhead profit an taxes an ur at about 50. Too cheap imo.


Since when does taxes and profit go in the same category? 

$81.25 an hour is $650 per 8 hour day. Are you kidding me? How many residential painters can consistently charge $650 a day and sell jobs? A contractor would go out of business fast if he thinks he can charge that much coin. IMO


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

I read a post wrong ....deleted





Note to self..don't try an read anything PT related while at the mall waiting for your significant other while she shops in a store that you have absolutely no business being in


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

Painter4Life said:


> Since when does taxes and profit go in the same category?
> 
> $81.25 an hour is $650 per 8 hour day. Are you kidding me? How many residential painters can consistently charge $650 a day and sell jobs? A contractor would go out of business fast if he thinks he can charge that much coin. IMO


Well good thing we are all still entitled to our own opinion. I dont know too much about residential honestly. But what I do know is that the biggest (service) companies are the most expensive. The cheap ones r usually small, and/or oms (not all oms n no offense intended to those who r as some of u like it that way). 

I have also never ever in my life heard of someone folding cauze they charged too much. I do know about a dozen painters personally who've packed it in though or declared backruptcy because they charged too little... issues pop up an they dont have the cash reserves to get through it.


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## Painter4Life (Oct 11, 2014)

bryceraisanen said:


> Well good thing we are all still entitled to our own opinion. I dont know too much about residential honestly. But what I do know is that the biggest (service) companies are the most expensive. The cheap ones r usually small, and/or oms (not all oms n no offense intended to those who r as some of u like it that way).
> 
> I have also never ever in my life heard of someone folding cauze they charged too much. I do know about a dozen painters personally who've packed it in though or declared backruptcy because they charged too little... issues pop up an they dont have the cash reserves to get through it.


Well, since you don't do residential, your opinion is just that. 
Again, residential painters are not getting $650 a day per man, anywhere in the US.

I think you misunderstood, no one folds because they were able to sell a job at a high dollar. What I am saying is, HO'S WILL NOT PAY $650 a day, per man, for a painting service. There may be rare instances, where that kind of money is made, but constantly over the course of the year? No way!

If anyone on this site, constantly gets $650 per day, per man, please step up to the plate?


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Ole34 said:


> I read a post wrong ....deleted
> 
> 
> 
> ...


DAMN, I KNEW shoulda quoted that reply 

I think we all need a GPS lock on the PT app :thumbsup: I almost responded to some posts while waiting for the WW to get a cortisone shot at the hosp. 
Almost as bad as posting when drunk. (which I've NEVER done :no: :no: :whistling2: )


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

I don't charge $80 per hour up front....more like $50-$60 then I bust ass to get it done an end up at $80-$100


I try an avoid at all costs giving an hourly price just a straight bid that's usually below my competition... I make up for it with skill set and for the most pet it works out for me


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Ole34 said:


> I don't charge $80 per hour up front....more like $50-$60 then I bust ass to get it done an end up at $80-$100
> 
> 
> I try an avoid at all costs giving an hourly price just a straight bid that's usually below my competition... I make up for it with skill set and for the most pet it works out for me


That's how to do it, estimate it for 60 - 70 and bust hump to make 80 - 90.

I seriously don't know what's been happening lately. I've been using essentially the same time/task formulas I have for years but at a 65/hr rate, yet I've been completing recent jobs in the 70 - 80 range. 

Almost makes me think about NOT retiring . . . . . ALMOST


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

Painter4Life said:


> Well, since you don't do residential, your opinion is just that.
> Again, residential painters are not getting $650 a day per man, anywhere in the US.
> 
> I think you misunderstood, no one folds because they were able to sell a job at a high dollar. What I am saying is, HO'S WILL NOT PAY $650 a day, per man, for a painting service. There may be rare instances, where that kind of money is made, but constantly over the course of the year? No way!
> ...



Stop talking POOR..... Some of us find that kind of thing to be offensive


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)




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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

daArch said:


> Shoulda asked me before you did it. I did that back in '72. :thumbsup:
> 
> good way to build bad stripping karma too


So that's what it is! Up til now I've been blaming hack paper-hangers that don't know the difference between paste and glue.

Thanks for setting me straight, Bill. I've painted over quite of bit of paper over the years; probably got at least a 9 on a 0-10 bad stripping karma scale.


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## Exactoman (Mar 28, 2013)

I don't understand? Were you going to remove the paste and or skim coat if you got paint job? If not, and she was planning on selling the house, how would prospective home buyers have liked it that there was still paste texture all over the walls? Why bid one part of job low and other part high?
To me this looks like a two week job for 2 guys and the house comes out looking amazing...with no paste on walls, and she is amazed almost to wanting to keep home!
I have always seen you with great posts on here too Ole, maybe you just got hurried on this one .


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Painter4Life said:


> Well, since you don't do residential, your opinion is just that.
> Again, residential painters are not getting $650 a day per man, anywhere in the US.
> 
> I think you misunderstood, no one folds because they were able to sell a job at a high dollar. What I am saying is, HO'S WILL NOT PAY $650 a day, per man, for a painting service. There may be rare instances, where that kind of money is made, but constantly over the course of the year? No way!
> ...


Methinks you should travel a bit more and widen your horizons. Absolutely true that in many markets one can not charge $650/man day. HOWEVER, there are many markets where one NEEDS to bill out that amount to stay in business.

I don't know how much the painters actually get paid, but billing that amount is very much a reality in parts of the country.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

Exactoman said:


> I don't understand? Were you going to remove the paste and or skim coat if you got paint job? If not, and she was planning on selling the house, how would prospective home buyers have liked it that there was still paste texture all over the walls? Why bid one part of job low and other part high?
> To me this looks like a two week job for 2 guys and the house comes out looking amazing...with no paste on walls, and she is amazed almost to wanting to keep home!
> I have always seen you with great posts on here too Ole, maybe you just got hurried on this one .






She didn't want it to look amazing ..... I was just gonna sand an oil prime with some light skim coating at eye level mostly on the first floor.....as far as bidding low and bidding high I was trying to save her some money cause I knew the painting would be costly no matter how you did it. I was trying to sell the TOTAL amount to her while trying to keep it under 10k


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

Exactoman said:


> I don't understand? Were you going to remove the paste and or skim coat if you got paint job? If not, and she was planning on selling the house, how would prospective home buyers have liked it that there was still paste texture all over the walls? Why bid one part of job low and other part high?
> To me this looks like a two week job for 2 guys and the house comes out looking amazing...with no paste on walls, and she is amazed almost to wanting to keep home!
> I have always seen you with great posts on here too Ole, maybe you just got hurried on this one .



As far as prospective home buyers liking the job....?..... House was going on the market at a reduced rate as it needed a new kitchen an bathrooms among other things so some fresh paint was better then wallpaper throughout which would have really sunk the price .....


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

Whenever somebody follows another guy. Weather a different company or different guys from the same company. They trash the guy they are following, unavoidable, it always starts something like ' I don't want to talk bad about anyone but......'

Ole sold the HO one thing. Then he got sacked. And his plan got changed cause of it. If she'd have let him follow through IMO she'd have wound up with a price and quality she wanted. She sacked him. Now she has inherent corruption in the system and she doesn't even know it. And never will. 

Every problem the next painter has he will blame on OLE. Someone pulls up to the house and gets a flat-ole left utility blades in the drive,,,,,,,on and on.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

Ole, it appears that your customer wanted (2) separate prices from you and your competitors.

1. wallpaper removal and,
2. painting

It also appears that your customer broke up the job, hiring you to only remove the wallpaper (because you gave her the lowest price for removal), and she hired another painting contractor, to do the painting (because he gave her the lowest price for doing the painting). I do not deal with customers like this. 

I also would like to note, that your customer trusted you as the professional, to do the job using a method that would give her satisfactory results. Striping solid-vinyl or fabric-backed vinyl, with the intent to only sand remove, not wash/scrub remove, heavy duty clear or clay based paste, leaving a house full of paste on the walls, does not equate to satisfactory results. Not today, not yesterday and not ever. I sure as hell would not want to be the buyer of that home. 

My #1 rule: I never remove wallpaper for the DYI or another contractor to do the painting (unless I am completely desperate for work). On the flip side, I will not do a paint job, if another contractor is doing the prep work for me.

If you do a paint job, where another contractor did the prep work, it will never meet your standards, and I mean never. And you should always expect to have to fix their work. No thank you. 

So in this instance:
Shame on you, for only taking on the removal of wallpaper and,
Shame on the other painter, for excepting the painting work, that you prepared for him and,
Most of all, shame on your customer for thinking she could “save money” and get a satisfactory job, by hiring (2) different contractors, with (2) different sets of standards, to do the job of one.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)




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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

The dude just spit off 3 paragraphs like he just got out of prison an missed the entire thread


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

PaintersUnite said:


> Ole, it appears that your customer wanted (2) separate prices from you and your competitors.
> 
> 1. wallpaper removal and,
> 2. painting
> ...



as I said before, 

far be it from anyone here to be judgmental 


:whistling2:


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## GMack (Jan 18, 2008)

Ole',

Are you calling PaintersUnite an idiot for post 110? If so, what's your problem? He's 100 percent right, best post of the thread. Three people are to blame for your predicament and you are certainly one of them. 

Name calling? Seriously? 

I've never even heard of separating the wallpaper stripping and painting though I guess I could at least wrap my mind around the concept. But separating wallpaper removal and "glue" removal? No. I don't even phylosphiclly understand. 

Admit fault and move on. Lesson learned. Charge to do a decent job and then do a decent job. Not hard.


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## GMack (Jan 18, 2008)

Now you're calling me a baby? Nice. . .

The name of your thread is "I low-balled a job."

Price dictates quality and you certainly delivered.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

GMack said:


> Now you're calling me a baby? Nice. . .
> 
> The name of your thread is "I low-balled a job."
> 
> Price dictates quality and you certainly delivered.



Forgive me .... Next time I'll add a warning ...."warning sensationalized thread title warning"




Well at least one good thing came of all of this. You realized people do in fact separate removal and painting in their bids and I am grateful to have taught you that for FREE


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

Next week we will learn how to itemize !!!!!.....


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

I don't know what this thread is about but its pretty entertaining


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Guys - Enough! Take up your issues with each other by way of PM's or this thing is history.

Also, stop with the name calling or there will be some time outs.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

TJ Paint said:


> I don't know what this thread is about but its pretty entertaining


I think it has something to do with babies eating wall paper glue.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

BTW,

MERRY CHRISTMAS to all.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

daArch said:


> BTW,
> 
> MERRY CHRISTMAS to all.


The same thought went through my mind when reading some of the posts here - happy holidays already… jeesh!


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

Ole34 said:


> She agreed to the deal an was like ok get the paper off first the next phase you can come back and paint.... So I was like "ok"..... Then after i finished the paper she pulled the rug out from under me an brought in another guy who then through me under the bus..... That's when he started his crap about me not completing the paper removal....how are you gonna renegotiate my deal at the end an then hold me to different standards?... That's not cool
> 
> 
> Ole34 said:
> ...


Ole, this is all I have time to read - up to post #51.

Your customer BS'ed you and you let her take control of the sale. Come on man, sell the job as a package deal. "Wallpaper removal and Painting" total: $$$. Not with stops and starts, or any (2) phase nonsense, giving the customer time to shop, shop, shop. 

It's a wallpaper removal and painting job. Bid it as a package deal or walk.


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## GMack (Jan 18, 2008)

Ole34 said:


> Next week we will learn how to itemize !!!!!.....


Itemization isn't really the problem here. It's the way you did it. The way you separated out the work would be like me giving one number for interior trim nail hole filling/sanding and than a separate number for caulking. It makes no sense. 

Anyhow, it was suggested that with more experience, I'd soon learn the value of itemization . . . I learned a long time ago to only itemize as absolutely necessary. Why? Because it can and does lead to problems exactly like the one you're having. 

If you want to continue to defend the very practice that got you into your current situation, that's your right; just remember that I'm not the one hopping on Paint Talk wondering how it all went wrong.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

GMack said:


> If you want to continue to defend the very practice that got you into your current situation, that's your right; just remember that I'm not the one hopping on Paint Talk wondering how it all went wrong.



I'm not on here wondering how it all went wrong.... I'll do it all over again tomorrow for $1,600. Like i said I took a gamble an lost ... Won't lose Next time (well
Hopefully)


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

PaintersUnite said:


> Ole, this is all I have time to read - up to post #51.
> 
> Your customer BS'ed you and you let her take control of the sale. Come on man, sell the job as a package deal. "Wallpaper removal and Painting" total: $$$. Not with stops and starts, or any (2) phase nonsense, giving the customer time to shop, shop, shop.
> 
> It's a wallpaper removal and painting job. Bid it as a package deal or walk.



I don't usually separate work it's just how it went down on this one .....I had a nice window open in my schedule so I went for it


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

I know what should be done, I know what needs to be done and I sure as hell know what they want done.... 



That's how I bid jobs. I dont shove "what should be done" down people's throats. It's a free market system so that's how you lose bids because people really don't give a **** "what you think they should do" it's not your house an your not paying for it so be quiet. You want to spend $5,000 washing wall downs so that a future buyer can come in and gut the place well then go for it starting with your house on your dime


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

At the end of the day, Ole still walked away with $1,600.00 and little if no cost for materials. I'd say it was a successful job.

And really, if this thread is more about reputation and ethics then any thing else, I wouldn't be too concerned. One, everyone makes mistakes. And as long as they're not consistently being made, this goes down in the books as a learning experience. Two, people generally have short term memories, and its very likely the homeowner isn't going to get any more quality then she would have had she hired Ole to complete the whole project.

So far, Ole comes out ahead. He's paid, and she has an incomplete project.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

During our initial meetings i went over various options and prices .... 1 option was a complete removal and paint job for around $15,000 you know a real PRO JOB ..paint talk would have been proud but SHE SAID NO so sorry guys i had to come up with a few more options rather then sit home an make no money .... crazy right? imagine that ..she said NO. i mean who wouldnt want to cough up $15,000 only to sell the place at a fraction of its value only to be gutted by the new owners ? surely the current HO'er would want the new buyers to come into a fresh level 5 paint job while theyre demoing the place i mean afterall its the right thing to do...... right?


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

What I can't understand, is why she was doing ANY work if she knew the next owner was going to be faced with serious remodel ?

I don't mind that wallpaper/paste/and other contaminants are painted over when the present owner knows the walls will soon be demolished, but I just don't understand why they bother. 

Oh well,it's their money.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

daArch said:


> What I can't understand, is why she was doing ANY work if she knew the next owner was going to be faced with serious remodel ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Her parents had pets for years an must have had litter boxes in every corner cause the paper was completely stained so the house didn't smell to good.... That an it's easier to sell a house with a clean pallet


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Ole34 said:


> Her parents had pets for years an must have had litter boxes in every corner cause the paper was completely stained so the house didn't smell to good.... That an it's easier to sell a house with a clean pallet


At least you didn't suggest painting over the wallpaper Ole. That would have certainly got Bill's thong all tied in a knot...Oops. Almost forgot:jester:


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

daArch said:


> What I can't understand, is why she was doing ANY work if she knew the next owner was going to be faced with serious remodel ?
> 
> I don't mind that wallpaper/paste/and other contaminants are painted over when the present owner knows the walls will soon be demolished, but I just don't understand why they bother.
> 
> Oh well,it's their money.


Probably because the Realtor told them it would sell quicker, see all the time


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## oldccm (Jan 23, 2013)

Everyone that told the HO the job wasn't properly done had a stake in the game. MONEY. 
The realtor wants you to spuce up the house so he gets more commission. AKA MONEY! He doesn't care if you spend 60k to up the value 40k. Any way he slices it he makes more..... You guessed it MONEY. 
As for the painters; she probably asked SW for some leads on some good ole run and gun boys. Tells them its a piece of cake, the wallpapers gone and its just a quick job. Why not just give me a quick number over the phone? $1sq that sounds nice, why don't you nice boys come on down. I think you all know what happens after those $1sq boys show up, probably similar to the any room for $99 boys. Sure, we'll do it but that's extra, that's extra, that's extra! Oh I almost forgot the extra stands for more MONEY! Imagine that.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

CApainter said:


> At least you didn't suggest painting over the wallpaper Ole. That would have certainly got Bill's thong all tied in a knot...Oops. Almost forgot:jester:


he wouldn't be the only one


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Seams high to me.m


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

CApainter said:


> At least you didn't suggest painting over the wallpaper Ole. That would have certainly got Bill's thong all tied in a knot...Oops. Almost forgot:jester:


Funny you mentioned that.Have a customer that has wallcovering in kitchen which I havent seen yet and he tells me whoever installed it did a wonderful job and you cant even find a seam and he called neighbors over to verify it and wants me to paint over it.Says he called SW and they had the only specialty primer which was great to use over it.I told him I would look at it and he would have to let me be the judge of that!Says I dont want to have to go through the trouble of stripping it.HELLO your not stripping it! I like the way people go to other sources 1st for answers without even considered someone in the field!


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

I still have no idea what this thread's about.


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## philcav7 (Sep 12, 2013)

PaintersUnite said:


> Ole, when you take on a wallpaper removal job, the walls should be paint ready when you are done. If you left paste residue on all of the walls, the walls were not paint ready. If I was the customer, I would demand an $800 refunded, for the incomplete job and service you provided.
> 
> You should be ashamed of yourself for doing shoddy work and cheating your customer.
> 
> Just giving it to you straight!


I kinda agree with this. Doing partial work always leaves room for disappointment on the customers end...even if that's the arrangements. Have to be super clear with expectation setting upfront.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

TJ Paint said:


> I still have no idea what this thread's about.


 


part fun...... part rant...part paint talk post so others can have a laugh an maybe learn something ...you know just a another random THREAD ....never meant to be ''omg what do i do i never bid a job before and what is this GLUE stuff on the walls?''


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## GMack (Jan 18, 2008)

CApainter said:


> At the end of the day, Ole still walked away with $1,600.00 and little if no cost for materials. I'd say it was a successful job.


If you're defining "successful job" as he made enough money, then fine but I'd call a job where money was held back a lot of other things before I called it "successful.". 

Forget about who's fault it was. Doesn't really matter. SOMETHING went wrong though.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

Ole34 said:


> Basically yes.... In our initial meeting she explained to me that she wanted the house cleaned up to be sold an what could i do. The plan that I proposed to her was a 2 step plan ... Step one was to remove the paper as cheAp as possible and step 2 would be to paint it knowing full well that there's was gonna be glue residue left and that steps (oil priming) would be takin to deal with this.....I gave her 1 itemized bid where each step was contingent on the next and she chose to just accept one part.....



In now way is this a complaint about your work, but my wife and I are kinda looking for a home to purchase, and it is shoddy work (which the seller insists on) that irritates me to no end. Freshly painted is always a red flag for me. I know others have mentioned (when I have complained about really bad pre-sale paint jobs) that a bad paint job is the least of worries when buying a house, and it is, but who the hell wants to deal with something like this down the road.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

GMack said:


> If you're defining "successful job" as he made enough money, then fine but I'd call a job where money was held back a lot of other things before I called it "successful.".
> 
> Forget about who's fault it was. Doesn't really matter. SOMETHING went wrong though.


Even when a sports team wins a game, while members of that team may have incurred numerous errors, penalties and or injuries, they're still considered successful.

And like sports, where its win by any means necessary to secure contracts, painting is more about getting money from customers to secure basic domestic and perhaps lifestyle needs for the painter, rather than for the purpose of demonstrating painting prowess or ethical business practices. IMO

Are we really obligated to hit home runs every time we're at the plate when the demands for customer discounts and immediate responses are flying in on you, one after the other. Or do you accept a base hit and survive?

But you make a good point GMack.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Pete the Painter said:


> In now way is this a complaint about your work, but my wife and I are kinda looking for a home to purchase, and it is shoddy work (which the seller insists on) that irritates me to no end. Freshly painted is always a red flag for me. I know others have mentioned (when I have complained about really bad pre-sale paint jobs) that a bad paint job is the least of worries when buying a house, and it is, but who the hell wants to deal with something like this down the road.[/QUOTE]
> 
> Especially when 9 times out of 10 it will be a quick latex over oil with NO prep ( at least around here)


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

We do a fair number of places which will be going on the market. We always leave our card for the next owners in case they have questions or are in need of someone to do some color changes or maybe want areas done we weren't asked to do. 

If I have my name and reputation attached to a job it's going to be the same level of work on these places as it is for regular residential repaints. And we'll also charge the same for doing them.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

RH said:


> We do a fair number of places which will be going on the market. We always leave our card for the next owners in case they have questions or are in need of someone to do some color changes or maybe want areas done we weren't asked to do.
> 
> If I have my name and reputation attached to a job it's going to be the same level of work on these places as it is for regular residential repaints. And we'll also charge the same for doing them.


Yeah, but you're the 1 guy out of the 10 that chrisn was talking about. 

:thumbup:


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## MSJ Painting (Jan 27, 2013)

RH said:


> We do a fair number of places which will be going on the market. We always leave our card for the next owners in case they have questions or are in need of someone to do some color changes or maybe want areas done we weren't asked to do.
> 
> If I have my name and reputation attached to a job it's going to be the same level of work on these places as it is for regular residential repaints. And we'll also charge the same for doing them.


We do the same. We write our name and number on the top of the leftover paint cans, detailing which color is for which room. Until they throw the touch up paint out, our number is sitting in their house for all of their painting needs


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Gough said:


> Yeah, but you're the 1 guy out of the 10 that chrisn was talking about.
> 
> :thumbup:


I won't (and can't) argue against that.

We lost one about a two months ago - I bid it out at $2000 which I felt was a really good price (for them) and had a guy come in $900 less. Don't know what they ended up getting and I really don't care.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

Well....what did your proposal say? We are always very clear in these situations. Our usual proposal for something like that would state: remove all wallpaper in rooms x,y,z clean walls,patch & repair as needed to make ready for painting. Or in your situation we would have said: remove wallpaper Only in rooms x,y,z Does not include wall prep


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Let me see the proposal*



TJ Paint said:


> I still have no idea what this thread's about.


TJ, it would certainly be instructive to have seen Ole's proposal at the beginning of this thread. I have done legal research and writing in the past and have worked for a lawyer on occasion. When people tell me about a ticket or complaint they got from so and so police dept., I usually try not to get into too much discussion without looking at the actual ticket or complaint. The reason for this is that there is usually a "difference" between what I am being told and what I see on the ticket or complaint. I think Ole finally got his story out for all here to understand, but not before a lot of misunderstanding occurred, that is, unless I am misunderstanding what all has occurred. 

Posting an actual proposal for all here to read (with any private or unnecessary info taken out if need be) might be instructive. That way, everyone will be on the same page, literally!

If Ole had posted his actual proposal in the beginning, then all here would have been able to read it and see just what the meeting of the minds was, on paper at least (and hopefully with the HO's signature authorizing whatever) and we might have had a better chance of understanding what Ole was going through.

As far as what this thread is about, I believe that Ole said that he deviated from his usual practice in submitting proposals and that it bit him in the posterior.

As far as doing less than level 5 quality work, I would think that if everything is thoroughly detailed in a proposal (such as the possibility, in Mizzou's case, that the wallpaper was not properly sized and that if so, the removal would be such and such extra) then the HO would not be able to come back and complain because you have their signature that they read, understood and ok'd what you proposed to do. I mean, isn't that the purpose of getting the HO's signature? And if the HO objects to something in the proposal before they sign it they can just negotiate further with you or get to a point where it becomes obvious that you will not be able to do the job as requested.

In my case, I seem to have the most problems when I deviate from my normal proposal format and practice. I really enjoy reading about the problems that others here have gone through because I do not want to go through them myself if I can avoid it. I appreciate Ole's thread for that reason. I know that problems are bound to happen and recur as well, but it is nice to be forewarned. Thank you, Ole.

futtyos


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

futtyos said:


> TJ, it would certainly be instructive to have seen Ole's proposal at the beginning of this thread. I have done legal research and writing in the past and have worked for a lawyer on occasion. When people tell me about a ticket or complaint they got from so and so police dept., I usually try not to get into too much discussion without looking at the actual ticket or complaint. The reason for this is that there is usually a "difference" between what I am being told and what I see on the ticket or complaint. I think Ole finally got his story out for all here to understand, but not before a lot of misunderstanding occurred, that is, unless I am misunderstanding what all has occurred.
> 
> Posting an actual proposal for all here to read (with any private or unnecessary info taken out if need be) might be instructive. That way, everyone will be on the same page, literally!
> 
> ...


Nope, still no clue.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

What I'm learning from all of these painting contractors, is once you've committed to running your own painting business, you've subjected yourself to a mine field of disappointments, rejections, criticism, and a whole lot of work before negotiating your way to some secure ground. It's almost as if the point of paint contracting is to develop the skills that'll get you from point A to point B in one piece, rather than to be recognized and distinguished for ones painting prowess. And to use the preverbal example of business success, McDonalds, they're not making the best burgers out there, they're just moving them from point A to point B (my mouth) with great success.

So a thread like this seems to go with the territory. Really unremarkable in my opinion. And again, I honestly feel that Ole survived this particular mine field, relatively unscathed. However, the truly remarkable thing to me, is the willingness of people to take on challenges like this. Running your own business, that is.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

CApainter said:


> What I'm learning from all of these painting contractors, is once you've committed to running your own painting business, you've subjected yourself to a mine field of disappointments, rejections, criticism, and a whole lot of work before negotiating your way to some secure ground. It's almost as if the point of paint contracting is to develop the skills that'll get you from point A to point B in one piece, rather than to be recognized and distinguished for ones painting prowess. And to use the preverbal example of business success, McDonalds, they're not making the best burgers out there, they're just moving them from point A to point B (my mouth) with great success. So a thread like this seems to go with the territory. Really unremarkable in my opinion. And again, I honestly feel that Ole survived this particular mine field, relatively unscathed. However, the truly remarkable thing to me, is the willingness of people to take on challenges like this. Running your own business, that is.



And a good bit of em are unemployable...probably helps with the motivation. Lol


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Oden said:


> And a good bit of em are unemployable...probably helps with the motivation. Lol


Lol. There's more truth in that statement than I like to think about.


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## Boco (May 18, 2013)

I would have sent an apprentice and a porter-cable drywall sander over for half a day and made it right. Ole would you hire someone to just remove paper but leave the paste? Looks to me like you didnt get the painting, got pissed and did just the minimum to get a check. Your lucky you got paid. If I were her i would have hired a professional to finish the job and deducted the bill for paste removal from your check.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

It's weird.I like ole, and his style. He makes things fun and interesting. Yet for some reason I lack the will to put in the effort and time to make sense of the issues and pertinent information in this thread. But the real mystery for me is wondering why I'm posting about it...


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

another thread that should not have passed 5 or 6 posts


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

About 95% of them anymore


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Oden said:


> And a good bit of em are unemployable...probably helps with the motivation. Lol


And all this time I thought we were just losing all of our good field painters to entrepreneurial pursuits. Are you saying people are starting their own painting businesses because their bloated egos and mediocre skill sets don't facilitate steady employment with anyone else? I'm actually studying this with great interest, and appreciate any other information you can provide. 

Thanks Oden.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I think the general trend for good residential painters is to progress to self employment if the companies are not large enough to to allow upward mobility. Then, after being sf employed for a awhile they become unemployable as we tend to get stuck doing things our way, used to calling the shots, etc. 

A secondary track is as clearly the unemployable from the start though. Can't deny that as well.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

Painters jump ship as soon as they can afford their own rolls of tape


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Ole34 said:


> Painters jump ship as soon as they can afford their own rolls of tape


And this is what baffles me, because most of the contractors at PT, seem to operate in a manner that would be consistent with full time employment for a field painter. At least it does to me, given the aggressive marketing strategies, internet advertising, and strict company policies and procedures offered here by members. 

Or should most career painters consider employment with paint companies merely as temporary work, as I've suggested for years, and instead prepare to jump ship and start a business of their own as soon as possible, as you and Dean have suggested?

And do these industry dynamics enable the use of sub contractors rather than employees?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I sense I'm back floating in dangerous waters:huh:


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

CApainter said:


> I sense I'm back floating in dangerous waters:huh:


We can be anything we want to be on the internet, CA.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

I want to Reply but I still can't understand the question lol


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Ole34 said:


> I want to Reply but I still can't understand the question lol


You had to be there,:jester:


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

Ole34 said:


> I want to Reply but I still can't understand the question lol


Leave it to Ole to create a thread based on perpetual confusion.......


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

CApainter said:


> And all this time I thought we were just losing all of our good field painters to entrepreneurial pursuits. Are you saying people are starting their own painting businesses because their bloated egos and mediocre skill sets don't facilitate steady employment with anyone else? I'm actually studying this with great interest, and appreciate any other information you can provide.
> 
> Thanks Oden.


I went on my own so I could have winters free to pursue my poker obsession and video game fetish.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Gwarel said:


> Leave it to Ole to create a thread based on perpetual confusion.......


life according to PT


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

I was forced to go on my own after I got fired for the last time....the glamorous life


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Ole34 said:


> I was forced to go on my own after I got fired for the last time


Hope you don't get any idea that you're special


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

Trade just packed with disgruntled ex employees .... It all mAkes sense now


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

CApainter said:


> And all this time I thought we were just losing all of our good field painters to entrepreneurial pursuits. Are you saying people are starting their own painting businesses because their bloated egos and mediocre skill sets don't facilitate steady employment with anyone else? I'm actually studying this with great interest, and appreciate any other information you can provide.
> 
> Thanks Oden.


Whoa!
Don't lump us all in there! 
Some of us took the time to learn the trade first, before bastardizing the term 'business owner'.
That alone will minimize ones exposure to 'shady home owners' who demand crazy things like timeliness and quality for their hard earned thousands, and stains that miraculously bleed through latex, and conundrums like french doors.

Some of us Paid The Cost To Be The Boss


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Christ, the wallcovering threads are more educational.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

CApainter said:


> And this is what baffles me, because most of the contractors at PT, seem to operate in a manner that would be consistent with full time employment for a field painter. At least it does to me, given the aggressive marketing strategies, internet advertising, and strict company policies and procedures offered here by members.
> 
> Or should most career painters consider employment with paint companies merely as temporary work, as I've suggested for years, and instead prepare to jump ship and start a business of their own as soon as possible, as you and Dean have suggested?
> 
> And do these industry dynamics enable the use of sub contractors rather than employees?


Well, I didn't really choose to become a business owner. I was fine working lots in the summer for the union, abd doing little things here and there in the winters. Then my brother in law gave me an application for the long Shoreman(pay ranging from $39-79/hr). So I started working with a buddy helping him get his company off the ground until my number gets called and he offered me a good chunk of ownership.

However sometimes I'd rather be back in the hall.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Bender said:


> Christ, the wallcovering threads are more educational.


as they should be


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

journeymanPainter said:


> Well, I didn't really choose to become a business owner. I was fine working lots in the summer for the union, abd doing little things here and there in the winters. Then my brother in law gave me an application for the long Shoreman(pay ranging from $39-79/hr). So I started working with a buddy helping him get his company off the ground until my number gets called and he offered me a good chunk of ownership.
> 
> However sometimes I'd rather be back in the hall.


I would jump all over that longshoreman job if the opportunity was available. Especially if its full time employment at that wage range. Incredible!


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I thought the question about the industry enabling sub contracting, was a good one. Especially, when the trend is to run your own business. It doesn't leave much room for loyal employees when an employer can't sustain 2,000 hrs year after year. 
And I realize this doesn't apply to everyone. But, It does seem there are a lot of painting contractors out there operating as OMS's. 

Would it make more sense to hire an experienced independent sub contractor rather than hire temporary workers who may not have the loyalty or motivation to provide a contractor with the full support they need?

When I contemplate what I would do as a painter looking for employment today, and given that there are so many OMS's, I would be inclined to network with them as a sub contractor rather than rely on a single painting contractor to provide me with a projectable income. Is it even feasible?


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Is this thread about wallpaper glue or something?


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

CApainter said:


> I thought the question about the industry enabling sub contracting, was a good one. Especially, when the trend is to run your own business. It doesn't leave much room for loyal employees when an employer can't sustain 2,000 hrs year after year.
> And I realize this doesn't apply to everyone. But, It does seem there are a lot of painting contractors out there operating as OMS's.
> 
> Would it make more sense to hire an experienced independent sub contractor rather than hire temporary workers who may not have the loyalty or motivation to provide a contractor with the full support they need?
> ...


Years ago in the winter for a couple seasons, I networked with a PC and did some 1099 stuff. It probably wasn't legit since I worked side by side with his employees and conformed to the company's schedule. 

It was all gravy work though and little risk involved: bank call centers, fluffy interior work and some benign interior nc.


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## Shakey0818 (Feb 1, 2012)

cdpainting said:


> Oh well. I have not said you should have washed the walls. Read before putting words in my mouth.
> 
> To me this was a butcher job. Sorry if you can't handle me calling it that. Weather you did or didn't communicate your process with the HO some where the ball was dropped hard. If your estimate wording and steps are different than what you told her in person I can see that causing issues.
> 
> I wasn't there and can only go by what your posting.


I have to agree with above post.If i was bidding a wallpaper removal job i would have prepped it for paint.Peal paper,remove glue with broad knife and patch any knife marks.No painter likes to go over someone incomplete work.I think you got paid very well for what you did/didn't do.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

Shakey0818 said:


> I have to agree with above post.If i was bidding a wallpaper removal job i would have prepped it for paint.Peal paper,remove glue with broad knife and patch any knife marks.No painter likes to go over someone incomplete work.I think you got paid very well for what you did/didn't do.



Your confused ....


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Ole34 said:


> Your confused ....


as soon as we saw "glue", chrisn and I could tell that :thumbsup:


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## Brian C (Oct 8, 2011)

I have just read through this entire thread and can sympathise with Ole's dilemma. I would be rather peeved if the homeowner gave me the wallpaper removal and the painting to another painter.

I would have never agreed to working like this. Of course Ole didn't prepare the walls throughly for painting as he assumed he was returning to complete the painting work and additional preparation required would be done when he starts with the final coats.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Brian C said:


> I have just read through this entire thread and can sympathise with Ole's dilemma. I would be rather peeved if the homeowner gave me the wallpaper removal and the painting to another painter.
> 
> I would have never agreed to working like this. Of course Ole didn't prepare the walls throughly for painting as he assumed he was returning to complete the painting work and additional preparation required would be done when he starts with the final coats.


Thanks for doing your PT due diligence, and offering a cogent summary of this thread, so I didn't have to spend any time doing so. Now, I understand the thread! Thanks man!


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

OK, now(finally) it is finished:notworthy:. let us move on


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

Brian C said:


> Of course Ole didn't prepare the walls throughly for painting as he assumed he was returning to complete the painting work and additional preparation required would be done when he starts with the final coats.



Yup, I would have had that place looking sharp.....some oil primer some skim coating at eye level followed by some caulk and BANG !!!!... Ready for the market and nobody would have had a clue there was paper there before


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

chrisn said:


> OK, now(finally) it is finished:notworthy:. let us move on



It's 5:50pm... Don't you have to be up soon?







Lol


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