# Joint compound light, what's up with that?



## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

Usually I stay away form anything that advertises sugar free, no caffeine, or lite beer; but my S/W was out of all purpose joint compound and I had to go with the blue box. "Lightweight"... doesn't sound too promising... 

Turns out it didn't shrink as much, and the second coat, (I was floating textured walls) almost didn't even need to be ragged. Sometimes all purpose needs three coats.
It dried faster and smelled better. 
Didn't burn the back of my throat.

What I need to know is if this substance has any drawbacks for hanging wallpaper over it.
Does it adhere to the wall as well as all purpose.
Is it's cohesiveness to itself just as good?
Why would anybody use all purpose?
Are there different applications as far as floating solid? In other words do people use all purpose for the first coat and light for the second?

I don't care about taping and floating although it would be interesting to know that area as well. Most of my tape and float efforts turn into floating solid anyway.

I'd ask this on Drywall Talk but they won't accept my application or answer my e-mail.


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## matt19422 (Oct 2, 2009)

All purpose (Green Lid) Is designed for taping and bedding. It then can be thinned down for topcoats and finishing. It contains more adhesives for that purpose.

Lightweight (Blue Lid) is used for finishing, it glides easier, sands easier, but will scratch and dent easier also.

Most drywall guys will use all purpose for everything but will add water & dish soap to manipulate the consistency and lose the air bubbles.

For me, I do mainly repairs so I use hot mud for most jobs unless there is taping


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## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

matt19422 said:


> All purpose (Green Lid) Is designed for...


 Well that breaks it down logically, makes sense.
And I forgot about the bubbles issue.
Thanks for the explanations!


:cowboy:


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## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

Clarification question:

Is the difference in adhering quality of the lightweight significant enough to enable the seams of wallpaper to pull it off the wall when it shrinks up? Sometimes wallpaper will stick to the mud but the mud won't stick to the wall!!!
(Not my jobs but I come into these situations, I don't get to see the long term effects of my jobs)


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## Toolnut (Nov 23, 2012)

The lite weight as stated has less adhesives, it's advantage is it's thinner so a little easier to apply, and it's easier to sand. This makes it good for topcoat when taping, or as a topcoat for repairs over hot mud to keep it from flashing.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Underdog,

Like you, I have been suspicious of the lightweight adhesion's ability to stand up to the torsional forces exerted on a surface when wallpaper dries and shrinks.

I do not trust it for large areas of skimming. But are we sure that no painted wall that we've hung on doesn't have large areas of lightweight underneath the paint?

If you are forced to use it, I would recommend that you make sure the surface it is going on is clean to promote good bonding and I would throw a couple coats of Draw-tite (Gardz, if you must) on top of the finished product.

OR, if you want better adhesion, mix some paste into it :whistling2: Manufacturers always LOVE it when we adulterate their product :thumbsup:


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## squid (Dec 25, 2012)

Underdog said:


> Clarification question:
> 
> Is the difference in adhering quality of the lightweight significant enough to enable the seams of wallpaper to pull it off the wall when it shrinks up? Sometimes wallpaper will stick to the mud but the mud won't stick to the wall!!!
> (Not my jobs but I come into these situations, I don't get to see the long term effects of my jobs)


 In my opinion, I would say yes. It is really soft and has no strength at all. I much prefer all purpose for a full skim and will use lightweight for final finishing.

It does not produce as much airborne dust when sanding as green lid.


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## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

daArch said:


> Underdog,
> 
> Like you, I have been suspicious of the lightweight adhesion's ability to stand up to the torsional forces exerted on a surface when wallpaper dries and shrinks.
> 
> ...


 Will do... I have an extra day because they won't let me hang until the furniture is moved in.

I'm amazed how many warranties are voided because somebody does the right thing.




squid said:


> In my opinion, I would say yes. It is really soft and has no strength at all. I much prefer all purpose for a full skim and will use lightweight for final finishing.
> 
> It does not produce as much airborne dust when sanding as green lid.


 I appreciate your post but it makes me sad... 



.


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

This post raises a question:

I will use hot mud in a pinch for taping. I mix it soupy and work fast. 

Should I not be taping with it?


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## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

epretot said:


> This post raises a question:
> 
> I will use hot mud in a pinch for taping. I mix it soupy and work fast.
> 
> Should I not be taping with it?


 Ha, I sure can't answer that, I used to use plaster of paris for repairs :blink:


:cowboy:


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## 1963 Sovereign (Dec 14, 2011)

I have always heard not to use hot mud for taping,as it has so little time and moisture in it before it cures that the tape (if using paper tape) will not be saturated enough and will have bubbling issues possibly.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Hot mud works best with mesh tape. Cures too fast for paper IMO. I did it in the past, but after a couple of issues with it, stopped using it with paper tape.


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

Wolfgang said:


> Hot mud works best with mesh tape. Cures too fast for paper IMO. I did it in the past, but after a couple of issues with it, stopped using it with paper tape.


That makes sense.

I recently overlooked (during a proposal) a failing seam on a 1 day bedroom repaint. I used the hot mud to tape and bed the repair.

I guess time will tell if that was a mistake.


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## 1963 Sovereign (Dec 14, 2011)

I just requested a free roll of Fibatape..woven mesh tape,looks like a great idea,,time will tell http://www.sg-adfors.com/Brands/FibaTape


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

1963 Sovereign said:


> I just requested a free roll of Fibatape..woven mesh tape,looks like a great idea,,time will tell http://www.sg-adfors.com/Brands/FibaTape


:yes::thumbup:


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

I prefer the puke green lid ultra over that crap blue! Also great for embedding and skimcoating.All those ready mix compounds are soft muds. When I use them as a skimcoat I like to follow up with a coat of Gardz cause it helps harden the surface.Gives off sorta of a plaster look and feel.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Underdog said:


> Usually I stay away form anything that advertises sugar free, no caffeine, or lite beer; but my S/W was out of all purpose joint compound and I had to go with the blue box. "Lightweight"... doesn't sound too promising...
> 
> Turns out it didn't shrink as much, and the second coat, (I was floating textured walls) almost didn't even need to be ragged. Sometimes all purpose needs three coats.
> It dried faster and smelled better.
> ...


You need to lighten up!:whistling2:


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## squid (Dec 25, 2012)

...aint no reason for sadness, lock it down & hang away. It's a good Q.

If you want something that grabs an existing finish and has minimal shrinkage, float a coat of brown bag (dbond). Gotta have a strong mitt. I like to do my initial fills with it + mesh... bedding coat of all purpose... paper tape... finish with ez the next morning if they don't mind me being there the extra day.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

We always use a combination of 20 minute durabond and topcoat and point up with leightweight. Both are hot muds that cure fast, just use DW where you will have a deeper repair than 1/4 and top with the LW


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

I tape and texture additions using mesh and lightweight easy sand hot. I will finish with all purpose and texure wth it too. 

The blu has not much to offer really.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Wolfgang said:


> Hot mud works best with mesh tape. Cures too fast for paper IMO. I did it in the past, but after a couple of issues with it, stopped using it with paper tape.


I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but mesh tape is not recommended for use with regular mud, only with hot mud.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Gough said:


> I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but mesh tape is not recommended for use with regular mud, only with hot mud.



Interesting. I did not know that...

Wonder why.?.


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## Toolnut (Nov 23, 2012)

If you are afraid of the strength there are products that will add to the strength such as mud max from Trim Tex or just white glue. Of course to use these on final coat will make sanding a lot more difficult. 
And to make your hot mud soupy is also compromising it's strength as this can make it brittle.
Hot mud can be used to tape but is usually topped because it is hard to sand and tends to flash.


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## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

Gough said:


> I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but mesh tape is not recommended for use with regular mud, only with hot mud.


That now makes SO much sense. I've always hated mesh and hated whenever I'd come across it. It never seemed to be effective. People, in my opinion, would use it cause it was easier with the sticky side and all. I just thought that it had no function at all and was a gimmick for the incompetent.




:cowboy:


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## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

Toolnut said:


> If you are afraid of the strength there are products that will add to the strength such as mud max from Trim Tex or just white glue. Of course to use these on final coat will make sanding a lot more difficult.
> And to make your hot mud soupy is also compromising it's strength as this can make it brittle.
> Hot mud can be used to tape but is usually topped because it is hard to sand and tends to flash.


 I bet not as brittle as when I was using plaster of paris. :blink: 
I'm just learning about these new products since I've joined PT.
I appreciate this, thanks.


:cowboy:


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## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

squid said:


> ...aint no reason for sadness, lock it down & hang away. It's a good Q.
> 
> If you want something that grabs an existing finish and has minimal shrinkage, float a coat of brown bag (dbond). Gotta have a strong mitt. I like to do my initial fills with it + mesh... bedding coat of all purpose... paper tape... finish with ez the next morning if they don't mind me being there the extra day.


 Again, materials I'm not familiar with. I'm at risk for learning something, I hate that.


:cowboy:


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Jmayspaint said:


> Interesting. I did not know that...
> 
> Wonder why.?.


I didn't know either until I read the directions on the wrapper one day:whistling2:


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Paper is for regular mud. Long dry time soaks the paper and bonds well. It doesn't bond well with mesh. 

Hot mud bonds well with mesh and it's my opinion that hotmud and mesh for new drywall has less chances of cracking in the joints.


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## ptbopainter (Sep 10, 2013)

Underdog said:


> That now makes SO much sense. I've always hated mesh and hated whenever I'd come across it. It never seemed to be effective. People, in my opinion, would use it cause it was easier with the sticky side and all. I just thought that it had no function at all and was a gimmick for the incompetent.
> 
> I always thought that the mesh tape was good for fixing cracks & holes in plaster because it's flexible so your repair is less likely to crack in the future. Whereas the paper is only for joins between pieces of drywall.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Not a big fan of mesh tape. These days I use FibaFuse and regular mud for taping. I use hotmud for some repairs but personally I think it is a pain to mix up batches of mud that set quickly. I do it for little stuff though.


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## Toolnut (Nov 23, 2012)

Mesh tape has no strength, take opposing corners and pull you will see how much if flexes. To use it with the hot muds the strength is in the mud. Regular mud doesn't have near the strength of the hot muds so the paper tape adds to the strength.
The brown bag he was referring to is a hot mud. Hot mud usually comes in either a white bag or brown bag. The brown bag is the strongest by far, it's drawback is it is un-sandable or very close to it. This means it has to be pretty smooth on first coat. The white bag is often referred to as E Z sand. It is sandable but I never found it easy.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

TJ Paint said:


> Paper is for regular mud. Long dry time soaks the paper and bonds well. It doesn't bond well with mesh.
> 
> Hot mud bonds well with mesh and it's my opinion that hotmud and mesh for new drywall has less chances of cracking in the joints.


Mesh is not what its always cracked up to be!:whistling2:


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Toolnut said:


> Mesh tape has no strength, take opposing corners and pull you will see how much if flexes. To use it with the hot muds the strength is in the mud. Regular mud doesn't have near the strength of the hot muds so the paper tape adds to the strength.
> The brown bag he was referring to is a hot mud. Hot mud usually comes in either a white bag or brown bag. The brown bag is the strongest by far, it's drawback is it is un-sandable or very close to it. This means it has to be pretty smooth on first coat. The white bag is often referred to as E Z sand. It is sandable but I never found it easy.[/QUOTE]
> 
> 
> nothing ez about it and that old brown bag stuff was just plain impossible to sand


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Has USG re-named Easy-Sand? What I see now from them is "MH", which means nothing to me. I've only been seeing that and Durabond for their setting-type compounds.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Toolnut said:


> Mesh tape has no strength, take opposing corners and pull you will see how much if flexes. To use it with the hot muds the strength is in the mud. Regular mud doesn't have near the strength of the hot muds so the paper tape adds to the strength.
> The brown bag he was referring to is a hot mud. Hot mud usually comes in either a white bag or brown bag. The brown bag is the strongest by far, it's drawback is it is un-sandable or very close to it. This means it has to be pretty smooth on first coat. The white bag is often referred to as E Z sand. It is sandable but I never found it easy.


I love brown bagging it!


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## squid (Dec 25, 2012)

chrisn said:


> Toolnut said:
> 
> 
> > Mesh tape has no strength, take opposing corners and pull you will see how much if flexes. To use it with the hot muds the strength is in the mud. Regular mud doesn't have near the strength of the hot muds so the paper tape adds to the strength.
> ...


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

:


squid said:


> chrisn said:
> 
> 
> > not much sanding needed if your good
> ...


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

squid said:


> chrisn said:
> 
> 
> > not much sanding needed if your good
> ...


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## Jasonthep8nter (Aug 7, 2013)

Hot mud is awesome! Instead of sanding it I just use a sponge to feather out the edges than just texture it or paint it or whatever, the good thing about using a sponge is you don't have any dust either


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## Toolnut (Nov 23, 2012)

You are really lucky to use hot mud as your top and never have flashing problems.


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