# 14 Unit Townhouse project - suggestions?



## hohiahpai (Apr 7, 2011)

*townhouse project - suggestions?*

I will be working on this 14 unit townhouse for exterior paint. Currently is wood clapboard with PVC trims. Will be doing this sometime in August. I have not done a lot of exterior painting. Will be scrapping off loose paint and then power washing the exterior. Planning to use Benjamin Moore paint. Any suggestions on the following:

1. Power washing
2. Prime or just spot priming
3. Which BM paint should I use (Aura?)
4. Spray or brush/roller.. probably both?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.


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## robladd (Nov 22, 2010)

Boom lift


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## robladd (Nov 22, 2010)

Double knuckle boom to be exact!


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## robladd (Nov 22, 2010)

Someone on the crew with a Cert. similar to this couldn't hurt.


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## ligboozer (Oct 13, 2009)

robladd said:


> Someone on the crew with a Cert. similar to this couldn't hurt.


 
2003? :jester:

How long are those certs good for out in LV?


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## dubinpainting (Feb 16, 2010)

hohiahpai said:


> I will be working on this 14 unit townhouse for exterior paint. Currently is wood clapboard with PVC trims. Will be doing this sometime in August. I have not done a lot of exterior painting. Will be scrapping off loose paint and then power washing the exterior. Planning to use Benjamin Moore paint. Any suggestions on the following:
> 
> 1. Power washing
> 2. Prime or just spot priming
> ...


 
Yo you suck!!!! I bided on that same job in QUINCY RIGHT? How much did you have to low ball me to get that one???? I think its funny you Don't even know how to paint an exterior! Do you have all brazillians working for you to?


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## RPS (May 13, 2010)

awkward


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

dubinpainting said:


> Yo you suck!!!! I bided on that same job in QUINCY RIGHT? How much did you have to low ball me to get that one???? I think its funny you Don't even know how to paint an exterior! Do you have all brazillians working for you to?


Busted! I do believe that is a first for PT!:jester:


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## dubinpainting (Feb 16, 2010)

Oh yea and just some advice you should have probably known what kind of paint you where going to use before you placed an estimate on that job. That way you could have figured it in to your price. 
Good luck!


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

:thumbup:


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## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

Dubin, since you are obviously in this guys area you should take the time to show him how to properly paint this structure like the pro's with a 2" brush and mini-roller. Seriously, how the hell do you bid a job of this size and not have a clue. Sorry to hear you lost this job to someone like this.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Lambrecht said:


> Dubin, since you are obviously in this guys area you should take the time to show him how to properly paint this structure like the pro's with a 2" brush and mini-roller. Seriously, how the hell do you bid a job of this size and not have a clue. Sorry to hear you lost this job to someone like this.


Only hacks use a 2'' club to paint. I get the best production out of a 1'' brush. :whistling2:


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## robladd (Nov 22, 2010)

ligboozer said:


> 2003? :jester:
> 
> How long are those certs good for out in LV?


Every 4 years the cards were made in 03
that class was in 07 and the trainer put in the 7.

I'm up for a lift refresher course soon. Just have to schedule it. Looks like this thread is getting a little warm so don't want to get caught up in it. 

I want to just say with the POWER lines, Grade, and other close proximities of decks, dormers and chiminies not to mention steep roof. This is a lift job for seasoned vets.


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## Different Strokes (Dec 8, 2010)

*Man Dubin*

Isn't that just a....


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## Burt White (Nov 8, 2009)

He wont even get that job dun.:whistling2:


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Wow! Talk about a small world. I feel your pain Dubin.  I wouldnt be too happy to lcome here and see I lost a job to someone who has no experience. All of a sudden I am understanding why some dont get such a warm welcome here sometimes.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

I smell a joke or something. 

Pat


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## Mod Paint Works (Jul 2, 2010)

why oh why would you even bid that project without experience?! just gives a bad name for other contractors. please back out and give it to your competitor!  maybe you'll pull it off...? good luck!


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

I'm waiting to see who comes along now and underbids hohiahpai!! I hope we get some photos of the job progress on Facebook so we can all follow along.. I think we should be sure that Worker's Comp keeps a close eye on this project.........it just gets better by the day!


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## jsheridan (Mar 12, 2011)

Uh-oh.


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## hohiahpai (Apr 7, 2011)

dubinpainting said:


> Yo you suck!!!! I bided on that same job in QUINCY RIGHT? How much did you have to low ball me to get that one???? I think its funny you Don't even know how to paint an exterior! Do you have all brazillians working for you to?



I didn't think I had to low ball you at all since I heard you were charging almost $30k just for paint and materials.


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## Wood511 (Dec 13, 2010)

Stand back everyone. Give 'em room. And someone yell if a teacher comes around the corner.:blink::blink::blink:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Dubin,

by any chance is that pre-78 building? Doesn't look it, but if it is, I'll make time to go and sit on site and pass out lead safe leaflets to all passerbys and occupants. 

BTW, what a great bust. I'd be sorely tempted to call the owner and let him know how "experienced" the contractor is who "won" the bid.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

hohiahpai,

just out of interest, how does a person who's related field is "windows" (as stated in your profile) feel he has enough experience to tackle a paint job of this size?

Also, how big is your crew? What spray equipment do you have? Will you be renting lifts? Ladders? Stagging? Are you RRP qualified? Insured?


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## Dunbar Painting (Mar 19, 2010)

Also, for 14 units I would say $30k is not THAT far off for paint/materials/markup.

Dubin must have known what he was getting himself into, making sure he had extra for material overages etc.

That is a big job to mess up on. I would want to have some very solid and big numbers to ensure safety net!


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## robladd (Nov 22, 2010)

hohiahpai said:


> I didn't think I had to low ball you at all since I heard you were charging almost $30k just for paint and materials.


High End Materials are very expensive.
Bought Pratt and Lambert interior flat 15 yrs ago for a Super Market chain that was remodeling a number of their stores in
the area.

We purchased the flat wall in 2 gallon buckets cause it didn't come in 5's
Just think it was only $110.00 a deuce.

My Company uses nothing but the highest end of materials. Daily we put on what I consider regular one part enamel. It is International 665 Interlac. It's just over a Ben Franklin a gallon. It is well worth it.

When contractors protect other peoples investments a lot of them have coatings specified by a manufacture. This is where warranty work comes into play.

Howard I really don't want to get caught up
in your and Dubins biz but I do want to send you a pic.

This is a crane that Me and My Crew Operate and Maintain. It's only a 1/2 million. All
together this Offshore Supply Vessel is only $12,000,000 every inch is coated.

Inspected by USCG and ABS. When your the responsible party in charge of every inch of it and all things coming and going
wouldn't the highest end materials and craftsmanship make you sleep a little easier at night.

I know when I take my 4-6 months of R & R off. The Guys and Gals that relieve me
do their very best to fill my shoes. Cause I try my very best to fill theirs.

I know those 14 Town Home Owners want the best for their Investments. Not going to call any of you guys or gals here "Cut Throats" but low balling, back stabbing ect. is something I can't afford to do in my Biz. If you do your 6'd, that's Fish Food for those who don't know. 

But I do know Cut Throating, Bad Mouthing, back stabbing, shot gunning ect.
ect. ect. is NOT helping any contractor any where. That's why Bob, Ridge and I do nothing but referral work. Thank You 
Ladies and Gentleman. Rob


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## hohiahpai (Apr 7, 2011)

daArch said:


> hohiahpai,
> 
> just out of interest, how does a person who's related field is "windows" (as stated in your profile) feel he has enough experience to tackle a paint job of this size?
> 
> Also, how big is your crew? What spray equipment do you have? Will you be renting lifts? Ladders? Stagging? Are you RRP qualified? Insured?



We are insured and RRP certified. We have done a few single homes and a lot of interior painting the past three years. We used to just do windows but business has been slow so picking up on other projects.

As for this project, I will probably be renting a lift for the tough spots and ladders on the rest.

I am here to ask for some suggestions, which I got from some of you (thanks) and not get flame for STEALING a job from dublin, which I have no intention of. I was told by one of the owners there that they got a quote for less than $30k and my quote was a lot higher than that so I didn't get this job because of low-balling. More because of my references and my presentation and reasonable price.


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## hohiahpai (Apr 7, 2011)

daArch said:


> Dubin,
> 
> by any chance is that pre-78 building? Doesn't look it, but if it is, I'll make time to go and sit on site and pass out lead safe leaflets to all passerbys and occupants.
> 
> BTW, what a great bust. I'd be sorely tempted to call the owner and let him know how "experienced" the contractor is who "won" the bid.



As a professional, why would you want to do that? Would it make you feel better if I don't get the job? Everybody here is trying to make a living here to support their family, and that is what I am trying to do.

BTW, post-78.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

hohiahpai said:


> We are insured and RRP certified. We have done a few single homes and a lot of interior painting the past three years. We used to just do windows but business has been slow so picking up on other projects.
> 
> As for this project, I will probably be renting a lift for the tough spots and ladders on the rest.
> 
> I am here to ask for some suggestions, which I got from some of you (thanks) and not get flame for STEALING a job from dublin, which I have no intention of. I was told by one of the owners there that they got a quote for less than $30k and my quote was a lot higher than that so I didn't get this job because of low-balling. More because of my references and my presentation and reasonable price.



You have to understand that the question that is popping up in every ones mind is how did you give a price when you have no idea what your doing? 

Your first post is basically asking how to do this job. 

With what I just said, your not going to get any respect here. Just the way it is. If I were dubin, I would forward this thread to the person in charge of this project and I would imagine it would put serous doubts in their mind if they made the right decision for a job of this size.

Pat


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## Ardee (Jun 9, 2008)

hohiahpai said:


> I will be working on this 14 unit townhouse for exterior paint. Currently is wood clapboard with PVC trims. Will be doing this sometime in August. I have not done a lot of exterior painting. Will be scrapping off loose paint and then power washing the exterior. Planning to use Benjamin Moore paint. Any suggestions on the following:
> 
> 1. Power washing
> 2. Prime or just spot priming
> ...


 
Have you ever power washed before? Have you ever sprayed paint before? Before you figure out what paint you are going to use and buy it, I suggest you tell the owner(s) that you are to busy to do this job. GET OUT NOW. You are in over your head.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

Dubin - Goto threadtools - click on the Show printable version. Make sure all posts are on one page. Print this sucker out into a pdf format. Open up your email and in the Subject area - Write "Are you sure?" then attach pdf and send away. 

Pat


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## hohiahpai (Apr 7, 2011)

PatsPainting said:


> You have to understand that the question that is popping up in every ones mind is how did you give a price when you have no idea what your doing?
> 
> Your first post is basically asking how to do this job.
> 
> ...


I am here just asking for suggestions of how to do this job more efficient from PROFESSIONALS on this forum. I haven't done a painting job this size but I know how to price these that is at least profitable for me. I am not asking suggestions how much to charge, only suggestions on how would you PROFESSIONALS would do this or ways to make it more efficient based on your experiences. I do not claimed to be a professional painter myself yet, but hopefully in the future.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

hohiahpai said:


> As a professional, why would you want to do that? Would it make you feel better if I don't get the job? Everybody here is trying to make a living here to support their family, and that is what I am trying to do.
> 
> BTW, post-78.


OK, sorry to be nastily confrontational. Let me explain my motive for the mood of my previous posts.

As a professional, it is my duty to protect the integrity and reputation of professional painters. When I sense that someone is about to get in over their head, not follow proper procedures , and/or cut corners to save some dollars, I believe it is in the best interest of all other professionals to do all they can to prevent that from happening. That can be accomplished by a number of means. Shutting the perceived hack down, or by educating are two of the easiest. 

In your case, I do not perceive (forgive me if I am wrong) that you have enough experience with this type of project to complete it in a truly professional fashion, this would give a black eye to my fellow professionals who have, by blood sweat and tears, learned how to represent the industry in the best manner possible. And I do not see how we here on this forum could educate you quick enough so that you could complete it like an experienced professional

True, we all need to put food on the family's table, but I cringe when I perceive people doing this by getting in over their heads or taking on a task which they will botch. Needing to support a family is not a worthy excuse to go where one does not belong

I'm sorry for getting personal before, I should remain professional and advise you as a professional for you NOT to take on a job such as this for which it appears you do not have enough experience to complete in a professional manner.

BTW, what does "BTW, post-78" mean ? I missed the reference


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## hohiahpai (Apr 7, 2011)

These are the kind of suggestions or advices I was looking for. If many of you PROFESSIONALS thinks it might not be a good idea to take on this myself or at least try to, then I will sub this to a professional. It is easy as that. I know the thread got to this point is due to the comment by dublin saying I took this job from him.

So anybody here wants to sub bid for this job? Send me a PM.

post-78 as in pre-78 building you were referring to.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

I'm still having a hard time trying to understand how you came up with a price when you had no Idea on how you were going to tackle this job?

Pat


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

hohiahpai said:


> These are the kind of suggestions or advices I was looking for. If many of you PROFESSIONALS thinks it might not be a good idea to take on this myself or at least try to, then I will sub this to a professional. It is easy as that. I know the thread got to this point is due to the comment by dublin saying I took this job from him.
> 
> So anybody here wants to sub bid for this job? Send me a PM.
> 
> post-78 as in pre-78 building you were referring to.


 There you go-check post #19. I told you it would get cheaper yet before it was over! :whistling2: I also agree with Pat-how do you put together a proposal and a price for a project like this when you are only now asking the Paint Forum the questions you need to have answers too prior to figuring the job?? I'm not attacking you, I just do not understand?
What's gonna happen when the least costly estimate from a possible sub is still more than what the job was figured for..... I can name that tune in_____ notes ......... And by the way, you didn't TAKE this job from Dubin, you won it fair and square, now you've gotta do it, stay out of jail in the process, make your overhead, buy your materials , pay your taxes and turn a profit, and oh yeh-make the customer happy. Getting the job is the easy part.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

PatsPainting said:


> I'm still having a hard time trying to understand how you came up with a price when you had no Idea on how you were going to tackle this job?
> 
> Pat


Ok, I'll jump in also. Pats point is exactly what I was thinking. The OP said he will "probably be renting a lift". I just dont understand how you could price a job without knowing the cost of a lift rental, and how many days you will need it? IMHO, this is to large of a job to push your experience level. Sure, we all learn by "pushing the envelope" a little, but _this _job is just to much.......


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## ellas70 (Apr 4, 2011)

look doing this job is not that hard i have done bigger ones than this but i am equipped to do them. if he fails then it will be a lesson learned. if he succeeds
then i hope you at least make $1.00 in profits 
thats how people get started 
also everybody with the epa certificate or rrp what ever you want to call you need to find out if your state honors it cause there some state that do not cause there guide lines are stricter than those set by the epa.
those states require you to take a class and pass there test 
i know this for a fact i have been doing lead abatement work for 11 years know 
there is alot more to this lead work than what most people could even think about
i have done paint jobs from simple houses to bridges in fact im about to fire up a big job soon in maryland its a water tank


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## JNLP (Dec 13, 2007)

I think this is one of the best threads on Paint Talk. Laughing my ass off getting funny stares from the fiancee thinkin I'm watching japanese **** again. :thumbup:


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## Goode Painters (Jan 1, 2011)

:shutup:..........................back to the shadows for me.....


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

hohiahpai said:


> I was told by one of the owners there that they got a quote for less than $30k and my quote was a lot higher than that so I didn't get this job because of low-balling. More because of my references and my presentation and reasonable price.


30k sounds like the low price IMHO but I am confused how Howard came up with his price if he doesnt do exteriors, know if he will use ladders or a lift or even what materials to use. 

For every job there are winning bidders and losing bidders. The frustrating part is when the winning bidder has no clue how to do the project. 

Good luck.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

PatsPainting said:


> You have to understand that the question that is popping up in every ones mind is how did you give a price when you have no idea what your doing?
> 
> Your first post is basically asking how to do this job.
> 
> ...


Well said!


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

hohiahpai said:


> I am here just asking for suggestions of how to do this job more efficient from PROFESSIONALS on this forum. I haven't done a painting job this size but I know how to price these that is at least profitable for me. I am not asking suggestions how much to charge, only suggestions on how would you PROFESSIONALS would do this or ways to make it more efficient based on your experiences. _*I do not claimed to be a professional painter myself yet, but hopefully in the future*_.


:thumbup: This thread is awesome!!!!


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

hohiahpai said:


> These are the kind of suggestions or advices I was looking for. If many of you PROFESSIONALS thinks it might not be a good idea to take on this myself or at least try to, then I will sub this to a professional. It is easy as that. I know the thread got to this point is due to the comment by dublin saying I took this job from him.
> 
> So anybody here wants to sub bid for this job? Send me a PM.
> 
> post-78 as in pre-78 building you were referring to.


 
Sub it to Dubin for 30k!


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

Read this thread this morning before I took off and its been stuck in my head all day. 

Pat summed it up for me too. 

I'm all for taking risks, sticking your neck out, but bidding without a plan and numbers is ridiculous. 

Then again there is this Mitch fella that could help you out Howard.


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

Great thread... and I almost missed it completely!

We need another section...maybe call it the "Hey, don't miss this shee-it!" section.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Paint and Hammer said:


> Then again there is this Mitch fella that could help you out Howard.


Ouch!


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## JNLP (Dec 13, 2007)

Steve Richards said:


> Great thread... and I almost missed it completely!
> 
> We need another section...maybe call it the "Hey, don't miss this shee-it!" section.


 Yes. PT Hall of Fame is needed badly. So many great threads over the years. Would like to easily find them all here & there when I'm feeling down.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

hohiahpai said:


> I know the thread got to this point is due to the comment by dublin saying I took this job from him.


Not really, threads where someone posts, "I got the job, now how do I do it?" usually get the same responses.



NEPS.US said:


> 30k sounds like the low price IMHO but I am confused how Howard came up with his price if he doesnt do exteriors, know if he will use ladders or a lift or even what materials to use.
> 
> For every job there are winning bidders and losing bidders. The frustrating part is when the winning bidder has no clue how to do the project.
> 
> Good luck.


And this is why we get so upset, we lose bids to guys that bid without taking all expenses into consideration, that's why our bids are higher. You end taking a beating on it and chalking it up to "a learning experience" and we have to compete against that!

Now if you had come on before you "won" it and asked for advice, it would have turned out a lot different, and I am certain your bid would have been higher.

If you are truly interested in becoming a Professional, than head over to the intro section, introduce yourself and start reading, you may find that you like the place in spite of the rough start.

At any rate, I'd be interested in hearing about the outcome.

Good Luck!


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Unlicensed, under insured, not knowing WTF your doing, don't know how to come up with a name for you business. What else can we support? Does it get any better?


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## MPSPainters (Apr 4, 2011)

:no::no::no:, 
sub it to someone hungry and hope that they know more than you do


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Just hire a crew of UNION Painters :whistling2:


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Ya because if your union their just better painters huh?!?


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Ya because if your union their just better painters huh?!?


Lol, Sorry Gabe, I just couldnt resist. I wanted to toss a little gas in the fire


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

No prob, just playin back :thumbup:


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## Ardee (Jun 9, 2008)

dubinpainting said:


> Yo you suck!!!! I bided on that same job in QUINCY RIGHT? How much did you have to low ball me to get that one???? I think its funny you Don't even know how to paint an exterior! Do you have all brazillians working for you to?


 
Just curious Dubs, how much lower was has price?


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

He said his price was higher than Dub's.


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## BC_Painter (Feb 14, 2010)

NEPS.US said:


> He said his price was higher than Dub's.


OP said that dubs paint and material cost was 30k ( which seemed huge so obviously OP price was substantially lower than dubs )

Another guy bid under 30k for the job

OP wasn't as low as this.

This is what we know about the pricing from this thread


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Read post 27 smart guy.


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## Metro M & L (Jul 21, 2009)

BC_Painter said:


> OP said that dubs paint and material cost was 30k ( which seemed huge so obviously OP price was substantially lower than dubs )
> 
> Another guy bid under 30k for the job
> 
> ...


The conclusion?

Another guy bid 40k for the job but the purchasing committee lied to OP and got him to lower his price another 5%.

Op bid 35k and figured he'd find a way to make money on it. Cut the paint 50/50, hire 10$ an hour help, use 24ft ladders for a 30 ft roof because that's all he could find on craigslist (The guys can stand on the top rung if a 100lb laborer stands on the bottom to soften the blow - I mean hold the ladder).

Dubin came in at 1 meeelllion dollars. He figured he only needs one sale a year. It's all about the leads, man.


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## BC_Painter (Feb 14, 2010)

NEPS.US said:


> Read post 27 smart guy.


You mean where it says...



hohiahpai said:


> I was told by one of the owners there that they got a quote for less than $30k and my quote was a lot higher than that so I didn't get this job because of low-balling. More because of my references and my presentation and reasonable price.


A quote, not dubin's quote :no:

He already said that Dubin was overcharging on materials being 30k alone!

So he didn't "lowball" cause someone lowballed more


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Wow! This thread is even more popular than the "sanding between coats on walls" thread  I cant wait to see it when I come home after work tomorrow. :whistling2:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

you work saturdays?

What are you, a fireman by day 

(sorry, my fingers typed that before I could stop them)


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## robladd (Nov 22, 2010)

Woodland said:


> Lol, Sorry Gabe, I just couldnt resist. I wanted to toss a little gas in the fire


The truth is a union shop can handle this Residential repaint without missing a beat.

I would rather hire 1 union painter that KNOWS what he is doing.

Rather than hiring 4 rookies GUESSING what's next.

turn em loose, or drag em through it.
My choice is easy. licensed documented
certified CRAFTSMAN that are true MECHANICS


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## BC_Painter (Feb 14, 2010)

Woodland said:


> Wow! This thread is even more popular than the "sanding between coats on walls" thread  I cant wait to see it when I come home after work tomorrow. :whistling2:


This is why I have the paint talk app on my smartphone, I can check in on the action through the day!

Whether I want coffee out my nose at breaktime, or to choke on my 2 day old spaghetti on lunch, all I gotta do is flip to a few threads and it's good times ^_^


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

BC_Painter said:


> This is why I have the paint talk app on my smartphone, I can check in on the action through the day!
> 
> Whether I want coffee out my nose at breaktime, or to choke on my 2 day old spaghetti on lunch, all I gotta do is flip to a few threads and it's good times ^_^


Lol That would not be a good thing for me. :no: I would never get any work done. Its bad enough I have facebook on my phone.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Woodland said:


> Lol That would not be a good thing for me. :no: I would never get any work done. Its bad enough I have facebook on my phone.


AH HA, that explains it. I was wondering where you found all that time at all times of the day.


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## Ardee (Jun 9, 2008)

hohiahpai said:


> I will be working on this 14 unit townhouse for exterior paint. Currently is wood clapboard with PVC trims. Will be doing this sometime in August. I have not done a lot of exterior painting. Will be scrapping off loose paint and then power washing the exterior. Planning to use Benjamin Moore paint. Any suggestions on the following:
> 
> 1. Power washing
> 2. Prime or just spot priming
> ...


OK. I'll put in my .02. Someones gotta help Howie.

1. Power washing - definitely.
2. Prime or just spot priming - no
3. Which BM paint should I use (Aura?) -stain or Aura 
4. Spray or brush/roller.. probably both? -Spray -no. -just roller with brush.
5. Talk to local BM dealer, insurance company and hire someone that knows what they are doing.

You never answered my questions whether you powerwashed or sprayed before. Both could cause multiple liability situations. Good luck to you and let us(me) know how you make out on this project.


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