# New guy painting galvanized drip edge/gutters



## phillyholiday (Jun 5, 2014)

As I gain experience applying coats I have ventured more and more into the world of "side jobs". I am honest and up front with my boss and so long as I am not interfering with company time he even lets me borrow equipment and gives me pointers. I am scheduled to go over a bid to repaint approx. 430 lnft of galvanized gutters and drip edge tomorrow evening. The existing coat is peeling and the HO complains about having to repaint the substrate twice in the six years since it was installed. The HO noticed me repainting his neighbor's ext. trim and was impressed with my surface prep. and asked me to take a look. I have been doing research all week and believe I have a solution but was hoping for some input on surface prep/application process. So far this is my plan: 1) clean a sample area with water-soluble cleaning agent. 2) test area with copper-sulfate solution. 3) If area turns black we can proceed. If not, the surface needs to be prepped to SSPC-SPC7 and is beyond my capability. I can offer to repaint but cannot stand behind the application. 4) If we proceed, I will scrape all peeling areas, then wire brush to ensure peeling edge has stopped. I'll then feather the edges with 150 and scuff sand the entire existing coat. 5) All bare metal will be cleaned with solution (SSPC-Sp1 and 2. 6) Prime all bare metal with SW DTA 7) Lastly, I will apply a coat of acrylic exterior paint from SW or BM. Any experience will be greatly appreciated and I am specifically looking for a recommended cleaning solution and top coat product. I am not aware of the existing paint but will see a can tomorrow.









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## olepainter (Dec 31, 2013)

Thats sounds like alot of chemicals ! I would just wash it well, use an oil primer & a latex top coat. make sure you thin out the primer alittle first & make sure its dry before painting with the latex


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

olepainter said:


> Thats sounds like alot of chemicals ! I would just wash it well, use an oil primer & a latex top coat. make sure you thin out the primer alittle first & make sure its dry before painting with the latex


Oil primer over galvanized metal is kinda outdated.


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## Painter-Aaron (Jan 17, 2013)

What about washing it with some tsp without the p or with it, then applying some all surface enamel. 

Galvanized metal comes with a glaze over it that needs to be washed off prior to painting. Probably something that the previous painters didn't do 


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Scrape, sand to feather, DTM WASH PRIMER, latex top coat.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

Sounds like your over thinking the prep. Give a good hand scrub, scrape and sand lose flaking paint, spot prime (or completely prime) with a semititious primer (I know Gough will disagree), scuff sand the primer, then finish with 2 to coats.

There are latex primers that say this will work, but if you don't want to go home and worry about it, then stick with the semititious stuff. 



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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Painter-Aaron said:


> What about washing it with some tsp without the p or with it, then applying some all surface enamel.
> 
> Galvanized metal comes with a glaze over it that needs to be washed off prior to painting. Probably something that the previous painters didn't do
> 
> ...


Wash primer after the mill glaze is off.


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

The HO noticed me repainting his neighbor's ext. trim and was impressed with my surface prep.

i hope you wasn't working for your boss when the neighbor asked
if your working for someone and a lead come in it only right to pass it a long to the company


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## phillyholiday (Jun 5, 2014)

Repaint Florida said:


> The HO noticed me repainting his neighbor's ext. trim and was impressed with my surface prep.
> 
> i hope you wasn't working for your boss when the neighbor asked
> if your working for someone and a lead come in it only right to pass it a long to the company


Absolutely not. It was my job, I painted the HO's interior in December and they had me back last weekend to paint exterior trim (fascia/windows/gate/doors) and that is when the neighbor asked me. I asked my boss and the senior painter on our crew for suggestions and they informed me that if you use oil or alkyd based paint the binder will react with the zinc in the galvanizing causing peeling. For my cleaning solution I was planning on using TS no P. I had never heard of cementitious primer...it sounds like a great option but I am sticking with DTM. As far as over thinking my prep, I like to think everything out and do my homework before I submit a proposal so I can walk the client through the process and materials with confidence before I introduce a price. Additionally, I have never done this particular type of painting before, the HO is a commercial architect, and two other painters have failed so I am sure he will be interested in the particulars of the service I intend to provide. Thank you for all the input.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

phillyholiday said:


> Absolutely not. It was my job, I painted the HO's interior in December and they had me back last weekend to paint exterior trim (fascia/windows/gate/doors) and that is when the neighbor asked me. I asked my boss and the senior painter on our crew for suggestions and they informed me that if you use oil or alkyd based paint the binder will react with the zinc in the galvanizing causing peeling. For my cleaning solution I was planning on using TS no P. I had never heard of cementitious primer...it sounds like a great option but I am sticking with DTM. As far as over thinking my prep, I like to think everything out and do my homework before I submit a proposal so I can walk the client through the process and materials with confidence before I introduce a price. Additionally, I have never done this particular type of painting before, the HO is a commercial architect, and two other painters have failed so I am sure he will be interested in the particulars of the service I intend to provide. Thank you for all the input.


Saponification is the term your looking for.

DTM wash primer is translucent. Its also pricey. It will also go a long friging way. What it does it does well.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

Paradigmzz said:


> Saponification is the term your looking for.
> 
> DTM wash primer is translucent. Its also pricey. It will also go a long friging way. What it does it does well.


That's right!

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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

journeymanPainter said:


> Sounds like your over thinking the prep. Give a good hand scrub, scrape and sand lose flaking paint, spot prime (or completely prime) with a semititious primer (I know Gough will disagree), scuff sand the primer, then finish with 2 to coats.
> 
> There are latex primers that say this will work, but if you don't want to go home and worry about it, then stick with the semititious stuff.
> 
> ...


Ya got that right, but more importantly, it's CEMENTITIOUS. Like "cement". Those old-timely, PPPs (poorly performing primers) contain Portland cement.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

Gough said:


> Ya got that right, but more importantly, it's CEMENTITIOUS. Like "cement". Those old-timely, PPPs (poorly performing primers) contain Portland cement.


Cementitious.....thanks Gough, just added that to my phone dictionary. Once again I can say 'don't use words you can't spell'

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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

phillyholiday said:


> Absolutely not. It was my job, I painted the HO's interior in December and they had me back last weekend to paint exterior trim (fascia/windows/gate/doors) and that is when the neighbor asked me. I asked my boss and the senior painter on our crew for suggestions and they informed me that if you use oil or alkyd based paint the binder will react with the zinc in the galvanizing causing peeling. For my cleaning solution I was planning on using TS no P. I had never heard of cementitious primer...it sounds like a great option but I am sticking with DTM. As far as over thinking my prep, I like to think everything out and do my homework before I submit a proposal so I can walk the client through the process and materials with confidence before I introduce a price. Additionally, I have never done this particular type of painting before, the HO is a commercial architect, and two other painters have failed so I am sure he will be interested in the particulars of the service I intend to provide. Thank you for all the input.


As a side job painter, without a California required contractor's license, I believe you are over thinking this job. You're also basically undermining the industry by providing standards to a home owner that is unwilling to hire a licensed company. And, by virtue of hiring an under-the-table side jobber, most likely expects to pay a budget price. I'd give them what they're willing to pay properly for, and I guarantee that isn't going to be the rate of a painting contractor with overhead. And if it is, they're pretty stupid for not covering their ass.

With that said, you seem to be a knowledgeable painter, and may want to consider getting that license so you can truly charge what you're worth.


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## phillyholiday (Jun 5, 2014)

CApainter said:


> As a side job painter, without a California required contractor's license, I believe you are over thinking this job. You're also basically undermining the industry by providing standards to a home owner that is unwilling to hire a licensed company. And, by virtue of hiring an under-the-table side jobber, most likely expects to pay a budget price. I'd give them what they're willing to pay properly for, and I guarantee that isn't going to be the rate of a painting contractor with overhead. And if it is, they're pretty stupid for not covering their ass.
> 
> With that said, you seem to be a knowledgeable painter, and may want to consider getting that license so you can truly charge what you're worth.



CApainter you are absolutely right. The majority of the side jobs I have been doing come in at less than $500 so being unlicensed is not normally an issue but as I gain experience the size of my projects are increasing. I am working towards my hours to be eligible to obtain a C-33, and just got my hands on some pre-test study info. This HO has already been through two "painters" trying to paint his trim so if he is looking for another hack job he is barking up the wrong tree. That being said, I am not undermining the industry. If I were charging a low-ball price or sub-standard service, then yes. However, just because I am currently unlicensed does not mean I am a hack and there have been several cases where I turn leads over to my boss's company because I feel the scope of the work is beyond what I am capable of providing. Chances are the HO will be unwilling to pay my price because he wants a cheapy-cheap deal, but that is not the painter I am or ever want to be.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

CApainter said:


> As a side job painter, without a California required contractor's license, I believe you are over thinking this job. You're also basically undermining the industry by providing standards to a home owner that is unwilling to hire a licensed company. And, by virtue of hiring an under-the-table side jobber, most likely expects to pay a budget price. I'd give them what they're willing to pay properly for, and I guarantee that isn't going to be the rate of a painting contractor with overhead. And if it is, they're pretty stupid for not covering their ass.
> 
> With that said, you seem to be a knowledgeable painter, and may want to consider getting that license so you can truly charge what you're worth.


Over the last 10 years I've done more side jobs them I can count, and my Dad has done more than some guys have probably done jobs. We do them right, we do then quickly, and we aim to make a good buck. Is that undermining the system? 

People call me because I stand behind my work. I tell them what I'm going to do, why I'm going to do it, what they need to do to make it last, and why my price is my price. I usually come in higher than your typical house painter, but I'm not a 'typical house painter'

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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

journeymanPainter said:


> Over the last 10 years I've done more side jobs them I can count, and my Dad has done more than some guys have probably done jobs. We do them right, we do then quickly, and we aim to make a good buck. Is that undermining the system?
> 
> People call me because I stand behind my work. I tell them what I'm going to do, why I'm going to do it, what they need to do to make it last, and why my price is my price. I usually come in higher than your typical house painter, but I'm not a 'typical house painter'
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T989D using Tapatalk


It's absolutely undermining the industry if you're circumventing state license requirements. Even if you have measurable qualifications that validate you as a competent journey level craftsman, you are enabling others without licenses or qualifications by virtue of circumventing building industry controls. And those controls, in most states, are by means of licensing.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

CApainter said:


> It's absolutely undermining the industry if you're circumventing state license requirements. Even if you have measurable qualifications that validate you as a competent journey level craftsman, you are enabling others without licenses or qualifications by virtue of circumventing building industry controls. And those controls, in most states, are by means of licensing.


Meeh
C'mon if the dude wants to hustle out a little side job. C'mon
They all got started that way. Who r the kiddin


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Oden said:


> Meeh
> C'mon if the dude wants to hustle out a little side job. C'mon
> They all got started that way. Who r the kiddin


I'm not kidding. lol:blink:. I work over the table for an employer who also follows the rules. My credentials aren't subjective but objective with proof of qualifications at a moments notice. I wouldn't expect anyone to hire me based on my good looks or bullsh!t, and I won't hire anyone without a license to operate. Pretty simple guidelines.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

And I must add, that I have done many side jobs under the table and have the flogging scars to prove it.


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## Painter-Aaron (Jan 17, 2013)

I think what CA is trying to say is that companies put in a lot of effort to be legit and have all of the qualifications of a proper business. 

When you do side jobs you are bypassing all of that requirements and taxes to do the job for most likely a lower price. 

If everyone being hired was legit, the prices could go up, but there's always that guy who knows he can get someone to do it for cheaper. 

As this guy who has got burnt twice by bad prep, IMO is not smart about hiring a guy on the side. You may do a good job, but if he really wants assurance it will last he would hire an actual company with a warranty and pay for it. 

If he is paying you too dollar for it, with no guarantee of a warranty, then he is not being smart with his money. 

Again I am not saying you are going to do a bad job, I believe you are going to do everything you can to do it right but CA is right when he says that side jobs undermine the industry and the guy wants a top notch job without paying for it 


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

Not for nothing,
Guys got 430 linear feet of drip edge. Drip edge!
How much money could one possibly justify to paint 430 linear feet of drip edge?
Brand new predinished the stuff is less than a dollar a foot
For crying put loud


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Oden said:


> Not for nothing,
> Guys got 430 linear feet of drip edge. Drip edge!
> How much money could one possibly justify to paint 430 linear feet of drip edge?
> Brand new predinished the stuff is less than a dollar a foot
> For crying put loud


In Cali, we demand top dolla. BASHANG ADANG A DING DONG! Holla!:whistling2:


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## autobear (Apr 29, 2014)

Water and vinegar to clean and latex primer to start. You don't use oil on galvanized metal!!!!!


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## phillyholiday (Jun 5, 2014)

Well guys I met with the HO and had to let him know that two guys on the internet told me that if I did his job the entire painting industry and potentially the moral fabric of our society would collapse. In all seriousness I appreciate the advice and understand where CA and Aaron are coming from but this is a tiny side job being done by a guy who is working towards his license and generally takes a lot of pride in his work. The first words out of my mouth during my proposal were " I am not a licensed contractor and carry no insurance. I cannot offer you a guarantee and recommend that you have a licensed painter bid the job." Turns out the last two guys to paint the place are licensed but are no longer in business. He had another licensed guy come out and I am $250 more than his bid but he still wants to go with me because he has confidence in me and was impressed with my homework. This sounded fishy so I am requiring a deposit to cover my butt.Thank you for the info especially re: the DTM primer. 


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