# Is Painting A Skilled Trade?



## zico (Apr 13, 2008)

Many times and increasingly through the recent financial turmoil I have faced prospects that believe all of humanity have been blessed with superb painting skills at the moment of birth. Lines like, "I am a great painter" and "Well I could do this myself...", come out of the mouths of individuals that have splashed paint everywhere and roller marks and banding abound over their last painting project. Recently, we were not awarded commercial contracts because the business owners decided to give it to the impoverish and unemployed relative of one of their employees. After all, anyone can paint a 10,000 sq. ft. office space with 12 ft. high walls. I have tried to deliver a short education on what makes a good painter good. It would be interesting to find out how you guys deal with this situation.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

When folks give me those lines, I know exactly where they are coming from, and I turn around and leave. Money is commensurate with respect, and these folks are looking for ways not to respect you and therefore not pay. Truly good clients understand the craftsmanship of a true professional. I've done roofing, carpentry, blueboard and plastering, some electrical and plumbing. And honestly - I'd say some of the more respected trades that require licensing are some of the easiest to do. Once you know how to wire an outlet, it don't get much harder than running lines after that. I can teach someone to solder and cut pipe to correct lengths and plumbing don't get much harder than that. Of course you have to know your building codes well - as well, you have to know what products will perform correctly for painting. The true problems with painting, is not so much that homeowners think they can do it - it's all the other guys jumping into the trade thinking they know how to do it.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

A simple hand shake with some kind words. On to the next bid


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## summertime14 (May 4, 2009)

People always tell me "oh I could do it, I just don't have the time." Or I sometimes I get people only wanting the ceiling done because the trim and walls are "easy." One time a guy wanted the top half of his foyer painted because he did not have a ladder, but he was capable of the rest.


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## larryt (May 20, 2008)

summertime14 said:


> People always tell me "oh I could do it, I just don't have the time." Or I sometimes I get people only wanting the ceiling done because the trim and walls are "easy." One time a guy wanted the top half of his foyer painted because he did not have a ladder, but he was capable of the rest.


too funny i just got asked to do that by the neighbor of the job i am doing


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## One Coat Coverage (Oct 4, 2009)

Fortunatley, these people learn their lesson after someone hacks there painting project, doesn't show up on time, doesn't show up at all, etc.... Next time, they hire a pro. Everyone has there cherry popped eventually when dealing with hacks of any trade.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

zico;99408 I have tried to deliver a short education on what makes a good painter good. It would be interesting to find out how you guys deal with this situation.[/quote said:


> I deal with this, but heck, I'm a drywaller. Of course as a drywaller I hear it mostly from painters. None of us are perfect, but EVERYONE you meet that finds out you are a drywaller, tells ya, "I've hung drywall before" like there is nothing to it"!! You have to be CONFIDENT in your ability and let the D&&&heads just beat their heads against the wall.


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## Picky Painter (Oct 7, 2009)

Absolutely, HO's know how to do everything a pro painter can. This is why they paint the bedrooms themselves and then call a pro to do the staircases and hallways.


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

Heck I saw the latest SW commercial and it claims that they can make you (the HO) a painter!

w00t!

My clients have all been there and done that so when I hit them with "sticker shock" price to do the job as a a professional they reach for their wallets...not quickly, but they do it.


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## mistcoat (Apr 21, 2007)

Picky Painter said:


> Absolutely, HO's know how to do everything a pro painter can. This is why they paint the bedrooms themselves and then call a pro to do the staircases and hallways.


Get sooo much of this in the UK. Especially for wallpapering.


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## wje (Apr 11, 2009)

I have been asked for both residential and commercial how much the price would be, or how much I could take off if they helped, or painted certain things. I politely tell them in a manor that doesn't come off as rude, greedy, arrogant, or rediculous that if I am been contracted to do a certain job, I will do the whole thing, or none of it. I put my name and livelyhood on the line and I do it all or I won't sign my name on it. Most people get it, and some don't. Most will agree and say " Yea I never looked at it like that." I assure them an easy comfortable project and then it is in their hands. 

As far as painting being a sklilled trade, I would argue that it is the most skilled. Not really textbook and rule wise, but in terms of SKILLED I would say so. How would you compare one framer to another, Or the best electritian from the not so good ones. My job 90% of the time is strictly for decoration. It is all anyone sees, and it is all about technique. Sure some factory and commercial stuff is so thoughtless it is unbelivable. I did it for 6 months and felt as dumb as I should have for the purpose I served. I would challenge any other tradesman to attempt to cut in a room and see how they would perform with only one nights homework on the technique. Then I would challenge a painter how to do an electricians job for a day. (I know how much code and specs play but I am comparing the task at hand, not the histories behind them). I would bet most would catch on to one of those things faster. 

This is just my 2cents but it is how I feel.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Ignorance and inexperience makes all skills look simple

In my first couple of years, I felt I would not like to wallpaper all the time beacuse I would soon become bored doing the same thing over and over. Now, 37 or so years later I shake my head at my ignorance.

In the mid-70's, I helped an electrician friend once connect outlets and switches. I thought, wow, he makes that much money for doing such simpleton work? Well owning my own home and wanting to install three way switches, I became a little more respectful. But then I wanted to wire my swimming pool pump with a Gfi Circuit Breaker, ooops, not so simple. I'm on a well, which means water and electricty mixed together. Hmmmmmm, maybe those sparkies ARE skilled tradesmen.

There is not cure for direspect fueled by ignorance, except experience. Let them have it, just leave your card and don't laugh at them when they call.


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## One Coat Coverage (Oct 4, 2009)

Picky Painter said:


> Absolutely, HO's know how to do everything a pro painter can. This is why they paint the bedrooms themselves and then call a pro to do the staircases and hallways.


Just finished a job like this yesterday! The bedrooms looked like s**t!


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## Picky Painter (Oct 7, 2009)

AllurePainting said:


> Just finished a job like this yesterday! The bedrooms looked like s**t!


I finished a job not long ago which was like this: " a friend has painted the bedrooms already, just paint all the upstairs trim/doors and paint the main floor. After seeing the job I did on the rest of the house they had me redo the bedrooms lol.

As far as making comparisons between our trade and others, I have to say something in defense of those other trades, since I know my fair share of tradesmen. It shouldn't take too many basic rooms before a person can do a half decent job painting them, but as we all know there is sooooo very much more to know before said person becomes a well-rounded professional painter. The same goes for electrical, it doesn't take a seasoned individual to know how to run wiring through wood framework and install switches or outlets, I did it as a teenager working for my dad. Give that person a circuit board loaded with capacitors, relays, CMOS timer chips, diodes or whatever and tell him/her to diagnose that board and replace the faulty component. I used to watch my dad hand-splice 50-pair telecommunications cable and was always amazed at how he could make all those faultless splices and fit em all in a junction box. I have a friend who is a journeyman ICI plumber with gastech1 certification. You can put him in an empty cinderblock room with all the parts needed to make a complete boiler room for a 50000sqft building and he will assemble it all, route everything properly and get it up and running. This is no small feat. Give that job to a guy who has only worked with 1/2 inch copper piping and faucets and see how far he gets.


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## WAGGZ (Apr 2, 2009)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I deal with this, but heck, I'm a drywaller. Of course as a drywaller I hear it mostly from painters. None of us are perfect, but EVERYONE you meet that finds out you are a drywaller, tells ya, "I've hung drywall before" like there is nothing to it"!! You have to be CONFIDENT in your ability and let the D&&&heads just beat their heads against the wall.



Yeah I've hung rock, but only because the union (UBC) sent me to the job. But I don't claim to be a drywaller. But I really apprieciate a good drywall guy after a HO hired a hack crew this summer. He/we found out why they were the cheapest.

My good customers have no desire to do it thierselves and the thought "I could do it myself but..." never crosses their mind. I just hope to keep finding ones like these.


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## summertime14 (May 4, 2009)

In my area it is a constant struggle to find a good drywall company. There are a lot of people doing, but not a lot of people doing it well. Even on repaints I go to do the bid and the sheetrock looks terrible and they want it to be fixed, but ten years after the house was built and three paint jobs later, there is usually not much I can do, because no one wants to pay to much for sheetrock repair. I appreciate a good rock hanger/finisher, whether its NC or repaint.


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## enfalang123 (Nov 12, 2009)

In Chinese, there it a idiom, "*the Writing Brush Bursts into Bloom".*


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## LOSTinDETAILS (Jun 17, 2009)

zico said:


> It would be interesting to find out how you guys deal with this situation.


I just head for the mountains of buusshhh beeeeer...or squeeze of a few rounds. Either one and I could care less about some future horror story.

I just got to add, *Is Painting A Skilled Trade? *Not the the best thread topic on a professional painting forum.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Sure its a "skilled trade" Doesent mean every so called painter out there has skill though.


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## michfan (Jul 6, 2008)

As far as the "everyone can paint" saying that we all frequently hear, the funniest thing is when you actually do start painting that hallway, stairwell, foyer or whatever and the customer mentions they have some leftover blue tape in the garage if you would like to use it. :blink:

Then when you proceed to start cutting in the trim with no tape they exclaim, "How do you guys do that without tape?" 

That right there is the difference that they need to see between a DIYer and a PROFESSIONAL!:thumbup:


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

What's unique about painting verses other skilled trades, is not necessarily the technical aspects, but the logistical skills needed to navigate through a project.

It is a skill to complete a job with as little impact as possible to the customer, and other trades you may be working amongst. Maintaining integrity and a professional attitude in a field strife with negative connotations is a skill.


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## 4ThGeneration (Apr 17, 2007)

Most Painters and paint contractors: No, there is no skill involved because the work they perform is sub par. The painting they are contracted to perform has no real expectations of quality because the home owners do not know what true craftsmanship actually is.

Select Painters and paint contractors: Yes. These are the ones who realizes that in the end it is your name you are left with. They have specialized skills and are trained properly in the paint industry as well as they train their employees rather than give them a brush and say do your best.They do not want their company to be spoken on in the 9th circle of hell as they are cursed, so they actually properly prep,clean, prime and apply top quality products with warranties given. They realize the warranties will never be used because they do things right the first time.

So, there are both skilled and unskilled painters just as that applies to all trades both blue and white collar.


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## zico (Apr 13, 2008)

Thank-you to everyone. You have firmly endorsed that painting is a "SKILLED" trade as WJE puts it. Certainly all of us face daily challenges in the work we do, both as a trade and as a business. We bring skill, patience, intelligence and brawn to the job site because our customers, deserve it. 

Many of our prospects however, need to understand that what they are engaging when they contact us and ask for that initial estimate is that they are dealing with *professionals*. I believe we need to leave those that do not understand, that they are contacting a *business* when dealing with professional painters. I believe that we should not blindly walk away from these situations and should leave the individual(s) with some information about the demands of the profession. It may have an impact as these prospects become more experienced, and in the future may become your customers.


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## bigjeffie61520 (Oct 3, 2009)

if you do it every day, strive to bring your best work to the table, and conduct yourself with dignity, it doesnt matter if you are cleaning horse stalls-
You are a professional


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

I think some DIY people tend to suck up the fact that they saved money by doing it themselves and they know its not perfect but doesn't seem to bother them. When everything is put back in its place and its time to take the kids to school, all that poor workmanship is quickly forgotten.


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## katesmith (Nov 15, 2009)

*Painting is skilled trade*

Indeed,painting is skilled trade and should commiserate with experience and calibre


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

I don't hold anything against DIY. Heck, I snake my own drains, just put up some electrical sockets that I needed outside. 
But I point out that to the professional that I am working for, they could make more money doing what they do best, and get the best job by letting me do what I do best. 
And that experience and knowledge aren't automatic because someone has white pants on.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

WAGGZ said:


> Yeah I've hung rock, but only because the union (UBC) sent me to the job. But I don't claim to be a drywaller. But I really apprieciate a good drywall guy after a HO hired a hack crew this summer. He/we found out why they were the cheapest.
> 
> My good customers have no desire to do it thierselves and the thought "I could do it myself but..." never crosses their mind. I just hope to keep finding ones like these.


This is a topic without end,,,, the job I am working on now,,, We had the framer and his helper, putting in deadwood while we were hanging, for TWO days. You got to ask yourself, how come they are pro framers and don't know where deadwood is supposed to be??? I did a job for another GC a cpl mths ago, and he acutally told me,, I hired a cheap framing crew,, and they screwed it up, Then I hired another crew to fix it and they screwed it up, so I had MY guys fixing it all, and now I'm so much in the hole, i need you guys to give me a GOOD (cheap) price so I can come out on this!!! 
Well since the ELECTION,, we have to take what we can get,, so we did it, as he is about 30% of our payroll. Now last week, after the HO's came in and moved about 25 lights,,, he called us and said "I need you guys to get this fixed over the weekend for me, cause my PAINTER doesn't want to paint till its all ready at one time (even tho he had us finish ONE floor at a time, cause his FRAMERS wern't ready),,,, 780 board, he then said, I don't care if you do it on sunday, as long as it's done by monday, so it doesn't HOLD UP MY PAINTER. 
Thats the problem as I see it,,,, Follow the dollar,, the only people that SEE construction trades as SKILLED,, are other construction trades. HO's and GC's only see Thier dollars,, no skill involved.

Now I know that I will hear about "go high end" but we are dealing with the HIGH END around here,, there is no where else to go,,,,


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## In Demand (Mar 24, 2008)

Ed the Roofer over at CT wrote this for his roofing business and with his permission I changed it a little and have used it for my business.

*The Rationale for Getting 3 Bids?* 

By Ed Fako Of Right Way Roofing Company



*Also Known As:*

*What’s wrong with just getting 3 bids on my painting project? And, Could someone please help me to not get screwed by the contractor I choose?*


Dear Mr. and Mrs. Homeowner,

I would like to address the vulnerability you are subjecting yourselves to by going out and requesting 3 bids for your project. Maybe the advise should be to make sure that you get the best qualified contractor to do the job right in the first place, instead of worrying about problems down the road. The 3-bid suggestion is just there so you can hopefully get lucky and find one who fits that category. *Would you be astounded to hear that according to major paint related manufacturers, that over 90 % of all paint jobs do not qualify for the manufacturers long term peace of mind warranty, from the initial application time? I know I am. And, That’s a proven fact! *

I know what you have been told; "Go out and get at least 3 bids", and throw away the contractors bid at the bottom and the contractors bid at the top and select the one in the middle. After all, isn't that what almost every single, "How to Choose a Contractor Guide" suggests you do. Isn't this the only way to ensure you do not get the low ball fly-by-nighter or the contractor who has to charge too much to justify his overhead or just wants to make too much profit from your job? 

When you decided you had a need for this particular project, did you say to yourself? 

"Gee, I want to make sure I get somebody who does not provide me with the full scope of work we need to validate the manufacturers full length warranty, (even if we do not really know what specifications those are yet), and I also want to make sure they do not have enough experience for this type of project?

Of course you didn't! That would be foolish and absurd! 

Well then, that obviously eliminates anybody who would not spend the proper amount of time with you to be able to assess your projects complete requirements, while attempting to remain within your financial means to afford this enhancement to your home.

From years upon years of experience, we have discovered that the majority of bid work usually omits many of the necessary items that should have been included in the first place. We have chosen a different path. We decided that it would be better to explain the proper price for the job being done correctly at the beginning, rather than have to make excuses for the lack of quality for years to come. 

Do you really think that there are so many corrupt or deceitful contractors out there? Actually, no there are not. The unfortunate consequence of requiring multiple contractors to be bidding on the same project without pre-determined specifications to be met, is that most contractors feel compelled to find ways to cut corners to be able to "Win" the job. There is a necessity to "Make the Sale", no matter what the consequences. Get the job at all costs, or should I say for all lack of costs, which also means lack of proper value.

Well now, what will happen next, once the job starts. Here are two possible scenarios;

A) The contractor will do all of the minimal work specified in the contract, hoping that no one alerts you to the fact that additional specifications should have been included in the first place. If you never find out that some specs were omitted, Great Job. Everybody is happy. That is until things do not work as they were intended. 

Even though, *“Painting is Not Brain Surgery”;* There are many Wrong ways to paint a house. But…There is only…One “Right Way” to do it and that is “By Following All of the Manufacturers Specifications”. *Remember; Over 90 % of All Paint Jobs Done - DO NOT Qualify for the Manufacturers Long Term Warranty!!!* . Were you educated about the manufacturers specs? How do you know if all of the manufacturers’ specifications or industry guidelines were followed? 

B) On the other hand, what if you realize that the project is not advancing towards your vision you started out with? Aha, you inform the contractor that more work needs to be included in the project scope. Great!!! The contractor replies, but first, Mr. and Mrs. Homeowner, please sign these additional work change order forms. That work you now realize that you needed to have included, was not in our initial bid! We thought we were doing you a favor, by keeping the costs down for you, isn't that what you wanted?

So, what is a homeowner to do? The best that you can do is to find a contractor who is proposing to do the job 100 % the Right Way, right off the bat. Make sure that you spend time with each contractor to interview them on how they will approach the project. Make sure that you have an open line of communication with that contractor. Make sure that the written proposal is extensively detailed so that there is no confusion as to what you are receiving for your investment. Make sure that you know what the obligations and responsibilities are of both you and the contractor. Make sure that they supplied you with multiple references of similar jobs they have done in your neighborhood. Make sure that you are protected, by receiving copies of their workers compensation and general liability insurance certificates. Verify anything that they are telling you if they do not provide the back up documentation as part of their proposal package. If you have doubts about any suggestions they have made, then have them back up their reasoning with industry related technical reports or articles.

After you have done all of this, which contractor do you now believe is going to give you the Right Job for the Right Price? 

More than likely, the only one out of the original 3 bidders, who even had a shot at producing the right results, was the supposedly highest priced contractor. Now, can you see that the highest bid, probably is not really the highest cost to you, but the only one to have provided the proper value to the specifications to ensure your warranty is validated by doing it the Right Way, per the Manufacturers Specifications?

*The bottom line is that only the right “Qualified” bidder should even be considered in the 1st place.*

Thank You Very Much for Your Time,

Ed

This article has been reprinted by permission from :

Ed Fako
Right Way Roofing Company
www.RightWayRoofingCompany.com
(847)426-9730


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## y.painting (Jul 19, 2009)

Modern, haven't seen you on here in a while...been meaning to ask you how the ads you put in the magazine a month or so ago worked out for ya?

PS - sorry about taking this off topic.


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## In Demand (Mar 24, 2008)

got 2 calls so far, but I think it will get better results after the holidays and during the warmer months.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

Consider this one,,,, I mentioned a 780 board job in post on this thread.

Now the same GC called us to a remodel, we hung over the ceiling (after scraping off the popcorn) He had his carpenters re-hang the crown (historical) and then got US to prime and paint the ceilings,,, and got his painter to do the trim and doors,,,,,,,, WHY??

You guys know I am ALWAYS preaching about back-rolling,,,, his painter WON"T back roll, and it cost him this job,, an easy job and a money-maker (rare these days)

Now think about it, got his drywallers to paint the ceilings,, not his painter,,, and I got to tell ya,, this guy has FORGOT more about painting than I will EVER know. Thats why he wants him to paint the trim, cause he is a pro and can cut from dawn to dust,, but his ceilings and walls ,,, welll,,,,,,, they LOOK like they have not been rolled OR sanded!!!!

go figger


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

yes it is.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

nEighter said:


> yes it is.


Can I say somthing????

I know painting is SkILLED trade,,, I'm trying to get there, not there yet tho.

What amazes me,, and I only speak of my area and experience,,, The painters round here,, almost without a fault, spend all their time on the trim and the ability to cut in, and ignore the treatment of the walls, (of course blaming it on the drywallers) I seriously don't understand this,,,,, 
isn't the walls (drywall, part of the painting experience???)

Makes me what to pull my hair out,, if I knew what they did about paint,, and can handle a wall, like I can,, I'd be set!!!

But i guess God's got a sense of humor !!!!!


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

hmm.. I am not _sure_ what you just said. I am tired and slow.

are you talking applying the paint to the wall, making sure the texture is the same throughout the wall, trying to take any brushstrokes from cutting in out while maintaining that same texture, and getting a uniform coating for the entire surface while hiding what is under it with between 1-5 coats?


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## painttofish (Aug 28, 2007)

nEighter said:


> hmm.. I am not _sure_ what you just said. * I am tired and slow.*


I couldn't agree more lol.:whistling2:


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

:yawn: what?


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

nEighter said:


> hmm.. I am not _sure_ what you just said. I am tired and slow.
> 
> are you talking applying the paint to the wall, making sure the texture is the same throughout the wall, trying to take any brushstrokes from cutting in out while maintaining that same texture, and getting a uniform coating for the entire surface while hiding what is under it with between 1-5 coats?


 
Yeah, kinda,, i believe your Joshin me,,,, I AM talking about making sure the texture is the same,,, but not the cut-in vs the roller,,,, I'm talking about the rolling (or lack of) of paint on a freshly sanded drywall finish. 

Guess, not being a painter,,,, I don't understand,,,, ya know


And about being tired and slow,,, man tell me about it,,, I'm 56 and getting slower by the minute !!!!!


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## painttofish (Aug 28, 2007)

nEighter said:


> :yawn: what?



Just having fun with the "tired and slow" comment N8. I am having a hard enough time with a thread asking about our trade being "SKILLED OR NOT". By our own TRADESMAN even....:no:


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Yeah, kinda,, i believe your Joshin me,,,, I AM talking about making sure the texture is the same,,, but not the cut-in vs the roller,,,, I'm talking about the rolling (or lack of) of paint on a freshly sanded drywall finish.
> 
> Guess, not being a painter,,,, I don't understand,,,, ya know
> 
> ...


yeah I was joshin but what are you asking exactly? How the stipple from the roller looks over the entire wall? Or how not to have that stipple appear? I tell you what, this interior I am doing right now, I am using a (forget the brand) prowool roller.. thing is like a dang furry dog on the wall. I REALLY like it. This is the first wool roller cover I have used. I think I may actually switch to them exclusively. Leaves a nice subtle stipple on the wall 



painttofish said:


> Just having fun with the "tired and slow" comment N8. I am having a hard enough time with a thread asking about our trade being "SKILLED OR NOT". By our own TRADESMAN even....:no:


LOL I know man


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

nEighter said:


> yeah I was joshin but what are you asking exactly? How the stipple from the roller looks over the entire wall? Or how not to have that stipple appear? I tell you what, this interior I am doing right now, I am using a (forget the brand) prowool roller.. thing is like a dang furry dog on the wall. I REALLY like it. This is the first wool roller cover I have used. I think I may actually switch to them exclusively. Leaves a nice subtle stipple on the wall
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

oh okay I see what you are saying, and remember a thread of yours talking about that, or was it this thread.. LOL not sure but remember the talk


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## flowjo (Apr 25, 2009)

i dont know about you guys but to get where i am today took a ****load of hours.

i think any homeowner with the right amount of knowledge can learn to do just about any job decently. now thats not saying its gonna be a professional job but does it meet their standard? i guess so if they are willing to dive in and try it knowing full well it wont be easy.

is laying tile or staining a mantle or installing trim a skilled trade? damn straight it is and i would go as far to say that painting requires much more knowledge then most trades. we paint over tons of different surfaces and everything requires a different material plus different tools to use designed for that surface or material. so would a guy who installs trim know what to use for painting steel door frames and doors or what type of brush or roller or spray tip to be using? what about painting different types of wood what type of sealers you should be using or what about rust or mold there is so many things to learn that just painting interior homes wont teach you. The knowledge is just more important then the movement imo


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## wje (Apr 11, 2009)

flowjo said:


> i dont know about you guys but to get where i am today took a ****load of hours.
> 
> i think any homeowner with the right amount of knowledge can learn to do just about any job decently. now thats not saying its gonna be a professional job but does it meet their standard? i guess so if they are willing to dive in and try it knowing full well it wont be easy.
> 
> is laying tile or staining a mantle or installing trim a skilled trade? damn straight it is and i would go as far to say that painting requires much more knowledge then most trades. we paint over tons of different surfaces and everything requires a different material plus different tools to use designed for that surface or material. so would a guy who installs trim know what to use for painting steel door frames and doors or what type of brush or roller or spray tip to be using? what about painting different types of wood what type of sealers you should be using or what about rust or mold there is so many things to learn that just painting interior homes wont teach you. The knowledge is just more important then the movement imo


 
I like what you are saying.. There are many people I have met who have the application process down, But figuring out what to apply, when to apply it and where it is being applied is a whole new ball game. I believe there is so much to learn in the trade that one can never know it all as new products are created all the time. 

This is why some people can't own a business. They may be great painters, but that is just the start. It is a career of ongoing education and updating if you want to stay competetive.


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## flowjo (Apr 25, 2009)

i love painting commercial buildings there is always so many different things to do. 

painting steel, staining doors, caulking, plastering and tons of colors


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## Painter96 (Feb 26, 2014)

*Ignorance Is Bliss To Some*

Oh how I shake my head at people who watch a few shows of "Debbie Travis" or "Mike Holmes" and think they know everything about painting. They end up thinking they can do a superb job painting a house. They can dream on. Did they ever stop and "think" that "Debbie Travis" and "Mike Holmes", who have these "reno" shows have "papers"? Hello? I was taught by good painters over the years and lousy ones too. Each painter eventually learns their own technique eventually. So when I get home owners or friends blab off how they can paint and even a chimp can paint, I just laugh because that couldn't be any farther from the truth. It's funny because when I check their paint jobs and point out all of the infractions, you should see how vehemently upset they get. Had a friend once (past tense) where she took on the attitude that anybody can paint, even a chimp. When I checked her paint job and pointed out a flurry of infractions with a pencil, she got red faced. Then she started cussing and swearing at me. These are also the same kind of people who (if they do decide to hire a painter) also try to pay "cheap" for the painter's services. Example: $625 for a whole town house - both floors. Or, how about a 2 bedroom basement suite for $500?? Those prices, to many of us painters, is disgraceful. We have to make a living. We have to eat. We have bills to pay. So, yes, many painters get disrespected by clients and some of those clients don't even want to pay. Even some painting companies pay cheap wages to their employees compared to other trades. That's gotta change too. When I get a prospective client leave a message wanting a quote while also mentioning the words "it has to meet my expectations for what I can afford", I don't bother returning the call. I can work fair but won't work for cheap.


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## Roof Cleaning (Jun 29, 2011)

Love the post by In Demand.

Would love to incorporate it with my website some
how.


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## Roof Cleaning (Jun 29, 2011)

Great quote captain sheetrock


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Roof Cleaning said:


> Great quote captain sheetrock




you know you are "talking "to a guy that was here 5 years ago, right?


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## Roof Cleaning (Jun 29, 2011)

oh sheeit, I didn't look at the dates.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Cap'n

It is a sad day indeed when not backrolling is only a minor offense in the corner cutting crime division.


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## BuckeyePainter (Feb 14, 2014)

Oh, it is DEFIANTLY a skilled trade! Of course, EVERYBODY can paint. I hear that quote so many times it used to make me sick. Yeah, it's easy until you have to give something 2 coats, paint a narrow stairway or tall ceiling. I don't let those people get to me anymore. I've seen enough "attempted jobs" where someone thought it'd be really easy until they actually tried it and found out they were way over their heads. Then they call you back wanting you to fix their screw ups. Just remember the guy that actually does it for a living always gets the last laugh.:thumbup:


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## snacker6 (Oct 10, 2013)

The painter I served my apprenticeship with had an interesting take on this. When I first started he told me that the real mark of an accomplished painter was in being able to produce a good, professional job when conditions were less than ideal; and, to know how to fix it if something went wrong.

On the first day I showed up for work I brought a grip with some basic tools. He pointed to it and said "If you stay with me for four years, work hard, and pay attention, you'll be able to take that grip and make a decent living anywhere."

That was almost 40 years ago, and he was right.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Seems legit.


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

I thought you had to wear whites to be a skilled tradesman.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

fauxlynn said:


> I thought you had to wear whites to be a skilled tradesman.


 
don't be a ratfink


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

There you go again .....rats...rats....rats


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## Grateful_Monk (Jul 17, 2012)

Many of my prospects hired their jobless relatives to paint, over the past years when times were tough. OFCOURSE they didn't call me back when the job went south.

but..

I've got plenty jobs from prospects with a story of how a relative destroyed their house. Probably another painter quoted the job before they decided to hire a relative and ultimately hired me to do it right.

_(..and the cost goes up to remove train tracks the relatives left behind in the drywall._)

"What Comes Around, Goes Around"


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

Lets put it like this, ask a random person what happens when you paint new cedar with latex? Ask a Certa pro, or student works, etc franchisee what SSPC 8 is for metal prep? I've worked with lots of good painters over the years, but when we started talking about the technical aspects, they didn't know squat. All they knew was how to apply the product, and even then we had some major differences. Like when you spray, how do you set your pressure? Most un skilled painters, or as I call them mainly exterior painters max out there pressure and only use a 517 tip. To be a journeymen painter I needed to do 6000hrs of onsite work under journeymen painters, go to trade school and pass multiple exams, then I had to duo a massive IP exam written by non painters to reach the level of Red Seal Painter. Because of this training, I can do all aspects of Painting applications, sand blast, hang wallcoverings, do faux finishing, and more.

So yes, Painting IS a skilled trade

Sent from my SGH-T989D using Tapatalk


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## oldpaintdoc (Apr 11, 2010)

journeymanPainter said:


> Lets put it like this, ask a random person what happens when you paint new cedar with latex? Ask a Certa pro, or student works, etc franchisee what SSPC 8 is for metal prep? I've worked with lots of good painters over the years, but when we started talking about the technical aspects, they didn't know squat. All they knew was how to apply the product, and even then we had some major differences. Like when you spray, how do you set your pressure? Most un skilled painters, or as I call them mainly exterior painters max out there pressure and only use a 517 tip. To be a journeymen painter I needed to do 6000hrs of onsite work under journeymen painters, go to trade school and pass multiple exams, then I had to duo a massive IP exam written by non painters to reach the level of Red Seal Painter. Because of this training, I can do all aspects of Painting applications, sand blast, hang wallcoverings, do faux finishing, and more.
> 
> So yes, Painting IS a skilled trade
> 
> Sent from my SGH-T989D using Tapatalk


And that makes you better than those of us that didn't do all that but we're out in the real world doing it?


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

I think all trades are skilled to a extent.
If you' ever watched a ditch digger dig a ditch. Ditch diggin is a skilled trade.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

Oden said:


> I think all trades are skilled to a extent.
> If you' ever watched a ditch digger dig a ditch. Ditch diggin is a skilled trade.


my litle brother is in concrete an we were diggin a trench an hes like ''give me the shovel you aint doin it right''...........


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

I find it takes a highly skilled necroposter to successfully bump a five year old thread.


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## Cutandroll (Mar 3, 2014)

I'm doing flooring for a baseball stadium rt now with my cousin who asked me to help him out. The are baisically painting the floors with a 2 part product and flaking them to cover imperfections. Then it's a 2 coat sealer with a time window of 12 hours max between coats. All the flooring guys on the job broke my balls for a couple weeks calling me the painter when I told them you're just painting a floor. Pouring 5 gal buckets on the ground and squeegeeing it out then rolling it. Real tough. Lol. Once they saw me cut and roll out the same areas they were doing in half the time and cleaner. Half of them respected it and half of them got scared for their jobs. Not that I want their job. my business is fine for me. 

But i sort of got the feeling, they all thought big deal he's just a painter. till I schooled them in what they called a harder trade. So I guess some people think they can do what we do but in the end. IMO. Not as clean, Fast and as comfortable as we can.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Cutandroll said:


> I'm doing flooring for a baseball stadium rt now with my cousin who asked me to help him out. The are baisically painting the floors with a 2 part product and flaking them to cover imperfections. Then it's a 2 coat sealer with a time window of 12 hours max between coats. All the flooring guys on the job broke my balls for a couple weeks calling me the painter when I told them you're just painting a floor. Pouring 5 gal buckets on the ground and squeegeeing it out then rolling it. Real tough. Lol. Once they saw me cut and roll out the same areas they were doing in half the time and cleaner. Half of them respected it and half of them got scared for their jobs. Not that I want their job. my business is fine for me.
> 
> But i sort of got the feeling, they all thought big deal he's just a painter. till I schooled them in what they called a harder trade. So I guess some people think they can do what we do but in the end. IMO. Not as clean, Fast and as comfortable as we can.


I don't watch much baseball but when did they start playing indoors on a hardwood floor?


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

chrisn said:


> I don't watch much baseball but when did they start playing indoors on a hardwood floor?


With indoor baseball you will never be out! Go figure.:whistling2:


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## Cutandroll (Mar 3, 2014)

You guys are funny. Lol. We are doing a polyuria system on the concours, bathrooms and the nasty concessions. 300,000 sqft of concrete. Can't wait to paint drywall again with normal latex


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