# Oil modified urethanes



## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Alright guys, I am seriously fed up with the behavior of WB oil modified urethanes. They are so unpredictably. It is the random fisheyes that ate driving me nuts. I thought it was oil stain, so I sealed with sealcoat and they showed up again on my roll top desk project. They also showed up over sealcoat on a brand new, raw oak (no stain) sample cabinet door over sealcoat. What gives? I have heard to put a cap full of paint thinner in to get rid of them. Not real keen on that idea. Hvlp application this time.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I gave up on them, tried several brands. Maybe someone will get them right. Funny how ben moore hasn't released one to the market yet. I love advance, and saw a product in Vegas that we should be seeing soon that is made to compete with FPE oil.


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## TheRogueBristle (Mar 19, 2010)

Going clear, gotta go oil. Sad but true. Looks better in the end anyway. Really the only thing I still have to go to oil for.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

For me it is WB or lacquer and I made the call to ditch lacquer a while back. Oil just is wet for too long in NC setting or shop setting in most situations. And, I need a non-flammable finish for shop work. To be honest, if I cannot spray a non-flammable finish in my spray booth (not explosion proof), I am really surprised we can spray them in NC settings.

Staysclear: Too long to dry to sandable and not very sandable to begin with. Bluish tint over dark colors.

Graham Ceramathane: Does the weird, random fisheye thing. 

Zar UltraMax: Does the fisheye thing

Valspar WB Pre-Cat: Can go cloudy, does not stick to oil stain after overnight dry, even very light color stains. Also used the WB conversion varnish. Seemed fine but am assuming if one does not stick to oil, neither will.

ML Campbell Agualente: Water darkens the finish or wood (but it does dry back out) if left on for 30 minutes or so. Sticks fine to ML Campbell Woodsong II spray and wipe short oil stain. Aguatana next to try (2k waterborne, over $100 per gallon though).

Target Coatings (2000, 6000, 9000, 9300 series): 2000 series looked and felt EXACTLY like SW high build precat lacquer on cherry (but needed more coats to build). Expensive and no local distribution. Application over oil stains not recommended by manufacturer.

General Finishes EnduroVar: Very, very amber for a WB (designed to be to give the solvent look). Should experiment more. Pricey but available at Woodcraft in limited quantities (a contractor using it would wipe them out on a regular basis). Thinner build.

My requirements are: Not easy to cloud, sticks to oil stain on overnight dry, good build in 3 coats. I am planning on using Woodsong II spray and wipe (I have also had good luck applying with a brush or rag, but application method and time it is left before wiping dramatically changes the color of the stain). It is a short oil so hopefully it gets rid of the adhesion issues. Fast dry time (couple hours supposedly, do not quote me though).

I am forgetting a few more that I have tried so far. Application has been HVLP and AAA and brush.

So far, I am leaning towards the ML Campbell stuff but bumping up from Agualente for cabinet work. On a sample cabinet door we literally put close to a full quart in multiple coats on one cabinet door (wet, on wet, on wet, .....) while working on sorting out a gun problem and it dried down with no sign of cloudiness. So far, that one has not fisheyed on us. I am hoping keeping everything in one manufacturer family will help and I have not had great success with the few waterbase wood stains I have tried that would be another way around the adhesion issues.

These products are technically spray only, but I think I could brush them if I wanted from the little I have tried.


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## TERRY365PAINTER (Jul 26, 2009)

Dean thanks for all the good info !! 
Zar mar does the fish eye thing . 
Does zar make other clear coats as well. 
Have you tried the old master oil modified 
Clear coat . 
I use Kelly Moore version Kel thane 2 
Works good ! Just a urethane clear coat . 
Water based .


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

No Kelly Moore here, just her brother Ben.

I have not tried old masters, my dealer does not carry it with the stain, I do not think at least. I can check it out as well sometime.

We have used the Zar exterior poly with no problems thus far, but that is brushing. Spraying seems to be the wild card for a lot of them.


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## TERRY365PAINTER (Jul 26, 2009)

I just heard so much good stuff about zar 
Polly's vp swears by them . 
Will be clear coating a bunch this
Week birch cabinets insides . Just don't want any problems .


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## HeadHoncho (Apr 17, 2007)

You should defiantly look at more of the general finishes products even though woodcraft has a sucky supply. The endurovar is good but it has limited application. I use the HP high performance with great results. I've heard there new WB pre-cat lacquer is great. It's all extremely durable, sprays well, and they have immediate customer service. Just call them and tell them your concerns and they will give you a solution.


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## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

That General Finishes looks pretty nice in that photo. 

I personally love MLC products, although i havent ventured into their WB lines. Used to use clawlock and Magnalac alot. 

Whats the deal with you shop dean? do you have a spray booth setup? does it have all the proper blowers and ventilation? Is it not to code for spraying solvent base/flammables, or do you just not like working them?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

We have used tons of ultramax for the past 5 years. The only time it has ever fish eyed on me is when sprayed over an oil finish. Its not compatible that way. 

I put it over Sealcoat ALL the time. Thats one of my favorite combos, and never a problem. It also brushes very nicely. Dean. 2012 has got to be the year that the curse is lifted from your spray shop. It has to be!


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Xylene = magic fish eye solution.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Xylene in a waterbase?


Target coatings and Fuhr do not recommend using SealCoat under there WB's. I guess there is something with the acidity of SealCoat that occassionally causes problems with their finishes. Target recommends either their WB shellac as a tie coat or mixing your own shellac direct from dewaxed flakes. Fuhr recommends making your own shellac as well.


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