# Filling nail holes



## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

Years ago, I got tired of filling nail holes, and having to sand them down before priming/painting. We would fill them with spackle using a small putty knife. If the wall had any sort of texture, the spackle would obviously leave a "halo" around the filled hole. And if there were a lot of holes (picture a teenage girls room) it sucked. So I started trying to fill them by hand, using a finger to push the spackle in, and wiping it right back off. And it worked. The patches needed a spot prime, or at least 2 finish coats to stop the flashing, but no sanding. So check it out and let the bashing begin:


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

PWG

This technique can work pretty well. As with other of lifes situations, sometimes your finger is the best tool. It seems that with textured walls this would be the best approach maybe, because if you try to knife it, the knife chatters over the texture leaving more of a film than you want around the hole, then when you sand you are creating a large smooth spot in an otherwise textured area. 

I think the biggest thing I would add to this technique is that usually when the nails are removed, there is a mini tear out around the hole that you can actually compress down into the hole as you fill. Depending on the situation, that can reduce the diameter of the hole, or act as a slight backer for the fill you add, which reduces the likelihood of dimpling. In any case, spot priming is really important because the spackle will definitely absorb paint at a different rate than the surrounding wall. No bashing here, but I am sure you won't be let down!


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## painterdude (Jun 18, 2008)

I've been filling nail holes that way for over 20 years. Why would anyone use a knife other than a homeowner who wanted to "help" before I got there....and don't use regulars spackle either, just any of the spackle light type products that have been around since the early '80's. Thanks for the pics, but I'd have to guess that most of us do it that way.(especially with toothpaste). pd


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

When doing new construction, at times we are dealing with thousands of holes in newly installed trim, most of which gets filled twice. At that point, the fingers take a beating and would not be the preferred tool. Also, its hard to get a clean skim on smooth surfaces with the finger method. For small scale residential repaints, fingers work just fine in alot of cases. Like most everything, its different for everyone depending on your situation.


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## dragula (Nov 19, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> When doing new construction, at times we are dealing with thousands of holes in newly installed trim, most of which gets filled twice. At that point, the fingers take a beating and would not be the preferred tool. Also, its hard to get a clean skim on smooth surfaces with the finger method. For small scale residential repaints, fingers work just fine in alot of cases. Like most everything, its different for everyone depending on your situation.


Have you ever tried cutting a mirror profile of the trim out of a small piece of wood?

The new construction stuff I was helping on had the same trim in every house. We would have one guy go along and fill the holes in a sloppy and fast manner, and someone else would come behind with the reverse profile piece running right along the trim.

Smoothed the patching out nearly perfect.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

dragula said:


> Have you ever tried cutting a mirror profile of the trim out of a small piece of wood?
> 
> The new construction stuff I was helping on had the same trim in every house. We would have one guy go along and fill the holes in a sloppy and fast manner, and someone else would come behind with the reverse profile piece running right along the trim.
> 
> Smoothed the patching out nearly perfect.


That would probably work well on some profiles. You would probably have to keep it fairly clean to avoid smearing it around though, and I'd guess there would still be a final sand? Interesting concept.

Most of the trim packages we see are three piece casings: flat stock, inner bead and backband, all applied seperately with different types of fasteners. In other words, the flat stock might have trim head screws that we bondo then skim, the inner bead might have tiny brads and the backband finish nails. Its hard to streamline, but I am always looking for ways...


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## dragula (Nov 19, 2008)

Yeah with the big fancy stuff that design wouldn't be ideal.

A final sand is still necessary with just the wood piece. I have also toyed with cutting an autobody spreader to fit the profile and attaching it behind the wood, and that worked so well that sanding wasn't necessary. The main caveat to that design is that it loaded up about every 15-20 holes, but the end result was much faster overall.

I'll try and post a pic of it.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

I stopped using a putty knife years ago for this.Go down and buy you a plastic bondo spreader they come in all diff sizes. I usually leave one stuck inside and ontop of my Synko spackle container.The soft plastic contours to the wall scraping the halo effect off for the most part, then use a damp tile spong that has a good flat bottom and lightly get the rest of the halo effect off.You can use the spong right after appling or you can wait until it skims over. the good thing about the plastic over the metal is that the metal tends to drag too much of the putty out of the hole as you scrape over it.
Also on spackle. There is only one make of spackle that I will use and that is Synko it cost about 22.00 per gall but well worth it, it has the finest grind that I have seen.The worst I have seen is SW, I't kind of like gritty.


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

I use the Red Devil Lite-Weight Non-Shrinking vinyl spackle.


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## painterdude (Jun 18, 2008)

Exactly...non shrinking lite type spackle(not really spackle). As for your finger getting sore, get some calouses. Do you paint with gloves on? Or, on your new contruction share the load. I haven't done much new const' in years but I've done 50 unit apt. buildings, but I guess us old guys had rougher hands back in the old days. 
either way, sorry for the meaness of my post, but in reality the finger method is the best and quickest. Don't forget to wet you finger occasionally , it'll help glide the filler .....spit, the universal lubricant. gl, pd


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

painterdude said:


> Exactly...non shrinking lite type spackle(not really spackle). As for your finger getting sore, get some calouses. Do you paint with gloves on? Or, on your new contruction share the load. I haven't done much new const' in years but I've done 50 unit apt. buildings, but I guess us old guys had rougher hands back in the old days.
> either way, sorry for the meaness of my post, but in reality the finger method is the best and quickest. Don't forget to wet you finger occasionally , it'll help glide the filler .....spit, the universal lubricant. gl, pd


pd

To each his own. I prefer not to go through layers of skin each week and I dont ask my employees to either. The load is shared by plenty of us, and we all go home at the end of the day without fingers torn up. Its just something that we all value. And I am as old as anyone here, except Archibald!


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

Nobody is as old as Archibald.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

ProWallGuy said:


> Nobody is as old as Archibald.


EH? WHAT? Who's bold ?


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> pd
> 
> To each his own. I prefer not to go through layers of skin each week and I dont ask my employees to either. The load is shared by plenty of us, and we all go home at the end of the day without fingers torn up. Its just something that we all value. And I am as old as anyone here, except Archibald!


But seriously,

Trim was always filled with fingers, but that was before I found Elmer's Wood filler, when we used putty. With a spackle or other similar filler, I would use a knife on a flat but still the molded shapes would be finger filled. Nothing conforms to odd shapes like skin, and old habits die hard.

We have smooth walls around these parts, so a semi flex knife is good on them. Tim's method on a texture wall is spot on.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> PWG
> 
> This technique can work pretty well. As with other of lifes situations, sometimes your finger is the best tool.


Do you mean your finger is your biggest tool? 

I still prefer to sand the area. Build that hole up and knock it back down perfect, spot prime and paint.

As far as NC trim packs we like to putty with the same light weight spackle smooth, prime, putty again with elmers ..orange wood filler, sand and prime again. With fingers. Depending on the price of the job of course. Sometime we wont prime for the second time and shoot semi twice instead.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Alway been a fingerer ....I like to be touch with my wood.:whistling2:


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

daArch said:


> But seriously,
> 
> Trim was always filled with fingers, but that was before I found Elmer's Wood filler, when we used putty. With a spackle or other similar filler, I would use a knife on a flat but still the molded shapes would be finger filled. Nothing conforms to odd shapes like skin, and old habits die hard.
> 
> We have smooth walls around these parts, so a semi flex knife is good on them. Tim's method on a texture wall is spot on.


Well, you know I am hesitant to reveal much proprietary information of any import in the open forum anymore, but this is can be an exception since it is a good discussion. 

We are doing a rather large scale new home now that has a combination of natural fir trim elements and paint grade (S.I.) trim. We often get to do paint grade and stain grade in the same house. On paint grade we use the knives and I can tell you that it is significantly faster, I will refrain from offering a percentage because I dont want to tempt any "going rate" stragglers from plugging the numbers into their estimating as production rates, but I will say there is a significant difference between the paint grade knife work and the clear grade finger filling. Granted, the clear grade filling has many variables that the paint grade does not, but even removing those degrees of difficulty, as a straight filling exercise, we are much faster with the knives. By that I only mean that we are much faster than ourselves without the knives. In either case, we are slow, like a herd of turtles. I am trying to be very clear in my choice of words here because I do not want to ruffle any feathers with this contribution, which is intended to be meaningful. Anyone who would like to know our l.f. rates for paint v stain grade, please hesitate to ask.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> Well, you know I am hesitant to reveal much proprietary information of any import in the open forum anymore, but this is can be an exception since it is a good discussion.
> 
> We are doing a rather large scale new home now that has a combination of natural fir trim elements and paint grade (S.I.) trim. We often get to do paint grade and stain grade in the same house. On paint grade we use the knives and I can tell you that it is significantly faster, I will refrain from offering a percentage because I dont want to tempt any "going rate" stragglers from plugging the numbers into their estimating as production rates, but I will say there is a significant difference between the paint grade knife work and the clear grade finger filling. Granted, the clear grade filling has many variables that the paint grade does not, but even removing those degrees of difficulty, as a straight filling exercise, we are much faster with the knives. By that I only mean that we are much faster than ourselves without the knives. In either case, we are slow, like a herd of turtles. I am trying to be very clear in my choice of words here because I do not want to ruffle any feathers with this contribution, which is intended to be meaningful. Anyone who would like to know our l.f. rates for paint v stain grade, please hesitate to ask.


Should I price per hole? And how do I price for deeper holes? What about setting nails and then filling holes? Do you have a shallow hole price and a deep hole price? Who counts to holes and what do you use to measure the hole?


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

NEPS, you should know by now that none of that matters. The going rate $0.0825/sq. ft. of floor space for filling and sanding nail holes. If the GC finds out that you are just filling and not sanding, then it is $0.0656/ sq. ft.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> Should I price per hole? And how do I price for deeper holes? What about setting nails and then filling holes? Do you have a shallow hole price and a deep hole price? Who counts to holes and what do you use to measure the hole?


 
Well hello NEPS. Welcome back, I see you finally broke the code on the parental restrictions your mom put on your computer lately. 

Since you asked, as soon as the carpentry is done in a nc, we digitally photograph every trim element in the entire house and then download them into a compression automator program (c.a.p. _tm_) that is peripheral to our estimating software package that houses the original "from prints" estimate. It essentially counts the holes for us and spits out a fat prep number. It does catch unset nails, double shots and blanks so we are paid for everything. With this estimating method, the only error is of the human variety, i.e. we miss something in the photography. We carry a prep line item from the original prints and then compare to what the c.a.p. produces when carpentry is complete and then we submit a c.o. for any variation. This is how we are covered for those situations where "oops guys you were suppose to blind nail that 4000 l.f. of t&g..." Its funny, I am a real dinosaur in some ways but then pretty techie in other ways. I know you know I am not kidding about this. It is a proprietary program but I know there are guys here who can figure out how to write that code and then spend a few years debugging it before rolling it out on stage.


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> I am not kidding about this. It is a proprietary program but I know there are guys here who can figure out how to write that code and then spend a few years debugging it before rolling it out on stage.


I am all over that. 

First thing tomorrow.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> We are doing a rather large scale new home now that has a combination of natural fir trim elements and paint grade (S.I.) trim. We often get to do paint grade and stain grade in the same house. .


Good point Scott.

It's hard to generalize in this business. 

As we say about wallcovering procedures, "Everything depends on everything else. "


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

DeanV said:


> NEPS, you should know by now that none of that matters. The going rate $0.0825/sq. ft. of floor space for filling and sanding nail holes. If the GC finds out that you are just filling and not sanding, then it is $0.0656/ sq. ft.


Dean

You gave me your word that you would not reveal my rates.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Have you ever tried mixing elmers putty with your primer and shooting it on aroung 3300 psi. It gets a little messy but a quick sand a day later and they look mint!

You not gonna believe this either but Peanut Butter makes a great putty too. Not the chunky ...has to be smooth. And it's easy to clean your fingers when done. Plus no shrinkage.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

NEPS

I know you are joking, but we actually came up with a blend of gypsum and primer (I am being intentionally vague here in product description - proprietary) and have eliminated the need for taping and mud on new drywall. We can get the right mix to create a level 5 finish right out of the gun over raw untaped rock and no backrolling. In so doing, we have been able to absorb the drywall budgets and pick up and extra $0.062/s.f. on ceilings and walls. Its kind of a push after the material cost but at least we have complete control over the finish. In the end, we come out ahead.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Wow that is impressive .....have you ever thouht to market and patent the formula?


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> NEPS
> 
> I know you are joking, but we actually came up with a blend of gypsum and primer (I am being intentionally vague here in product description - proprietary) and have eliminated the need for taping and mud on new drywall. We can get the right mix to create a level 5 finish right out of the gun over raw untaped rock and no backrolling. In so doing, we have been able to absorb the drywall budgets and pick up and extra $0.062/s.f. on ceilings and walls. Its kind of a push after the material cost but at least we have complete control over the finish. In the end, we come out ahead.


Funny you should mention this. Needing a one time patch for a three inch diameter hole in some sheetrock, I mixed some Patching Plaster with Gardz. The jury is still out, but three years and no call back


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

One time I told one of my guys to mix up a batch of easy 45. I came back and he had the drill paddle in a 5'er of new PVA and half a bag of 45 in it. I freaked out until we tried it. Sprayed like a dream (cant use a little 440 ...i used my 1595)and that where we got the idea. It helps to back roll because it is pretty thick and sanding can be difficult with the PVA, but man what a rock solid finish.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> Wow that is impressive .....have you ever thouht to market and patent the formula?


There is a USG product on the market that is supposed to be level 5 in a can but its not. So they have the patent on it technically. With theirs, the rock must be taped on coat mudded before shooting. Ours is hang and fire. When we mix the stuff in our shop (we never do it on site) as soon as we pull the paddle from the pail, one of our little oompa loompas writes "hangfire" in a sharpie right on the side of the bucket. We double bucket that stuff because it is heavy. Takes two guys to get a bucket into the van, but my interior guys are small. My exterior guys have wingspan. I digress.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> One time I told one of my guys to mix up a batch of easy 45. I came back and he had the drill paddle in a 5'er of new PVA and half a bag of 45 in it. I freaked out until we tried it. Sprayed like a dream (cant use a little 440 ...i used my 1595)and that where we got the idea. It helps to back roll because it is pretty thick and sanding can be difficult with the PVA, but man what a rock solid finish.


I assume you had to put an onboard external cooling system on the 1595 to offset the heat that the 45 generates? Its not a bad idea to have an oec on the rigs, usually its the smaller 440s etc that need them as a bearing temp regulator. I dont expect you to put it out here in a thread, because I know the custom fabrication it takes to put an oec in place, but pm me I would love to compare systems.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> I assume you had to put an onboard external cooling system on the 1595 to offset the heat that the 45 generates? Its not a bad idea to have an oec on the rigs, usually its the smaller 440s etc that need them as a bearing temp regulator. I dont expect you to put it out here in a thread, because I know the custom fabrication it takes to put an oec in place, but pm me I would love to compare systems.


Funny you mention that. I didnt know what to do. It was overheating like crazy. I would only run it for a wall at a time for fear of warping the piston. I was thinking of a water cooled system. This way I could maintain a steady temp at a reasonable price. I dont want to start messing with freon and containment issues. I have a water pump from a wet saw and was thinking of water jet system. PM me your plans ..we should compare notes.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> Funny you mention that. I didnt know what to do. It was overheating like crazy. I would only run it for a wall at a time for fear of warping the piston. I was thinking of a water cooled system. This way I could maintain a steady temp at a reasonable price. I dont want to start messing with freon and containment issues. I have a water pump from a wet saw and was thinking of water jet system. PM me your plans ..we should compare notes.


You're on the right track. I will shoot you a pm and if you want to do it I can email you a zip file with the schematics. When we first stumbled onto this application, we took our oldest most outdated 440 (back in the early 90s when they looked more like a small bulldozer) and had our first system fabricated and mounted to that rig for shakedown. The old 440s ran hot and were wicked screamers, so we knew if we could cool that old badboy down we would be fine.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> You're on the right track. I will shoot you a pm and if you want to do it I can email you a zip file with the schematics. When we first stumbled onto this application, we took our oldest most outdated 440 (back in the early 90s when they looked more like a small bulldozer) and had our first system fabricated and mounted to that rig for shakedown. The old 440s ran hot and were wicked screamers, so we knew if we could cool that old badboy down we would be fine.


I'd like not to mess with my 1595 ....that sucker is heavy enough ...I have a old 550i that I could turn into a high boy and easily make a platform for the unit.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

I also have a old pressure washer that I bet I could remove the pump from and use that to get the right flow per gal that you described...... I think we're on to something!


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

I was just gonna say with the oec unit its best to be on a highboy platform. I was half toying with doing a tandem unit for n.c. that could share the oec, in other words two 440s joined at the hip on a doublewide highboy sharing one oec. That right there would be a money maker mister.

Your exactly right on the circulator unit, it basically runs on goodyear 3/4 hose and q.c.'s. In fact, Santa brought me a new q.c. seal seater tool for x-mas. The oec is hard on seals because when you go to empty it for transport its still under pressure and so the seal will come flying out the qc on disconnect if the sender unit isnt thoroughly depressurized, and those take forever, kind of like waiting for a air compressor, which is essentially what it is, only miniature.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Sticky Please!


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> I also have a old pressure washer that I bet I could remove the pump from and use that to get the right flow per gal that you described...... I think we're on to something!


 
If its a 2.8 gpm you could actually do it. Its possible to put a restrictor in it to cut the flow in half. Its not an exact science but if you were within say 10% in either direction of 1.5 gpm that would be plenty to circulate enough coolant for any configuration you ever want to run. I'm serious about setting up a tandem with a shred central oec. Give each righ 100 ft on a reel and you could get around a house fast. Two guys spraying and one guy just swappin out 5ers all day long. That right there would be money.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> If its a 2.8 gpm you could actually do it. Its possible to put a restrictor in it to cut the flow in half. Its not an exact science but if you were within say 10% in either direction of 1.5 gpm that would be plenty to circulate enough coolant for any configuration you ever want to run. I'm serious about setting up a tandem with a shred central oec. Give each righ 100 ft on a reel and you could get around a house fast. Two guys spraying and one guy just swappin out 5ers all day long. That right there would be money.


:yes: I like that. 

Now we have another problem that I have been facing ....working with this stuff in the winter. I have a makeshift window fan unit to circulate fresh air throughout the house to prevent spydering and even dry times but I havent mastered it ....what do you suggest?


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

[image removed to due malware warnings]

I like this squegee idea to help even out the spray lines


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> Sticky Please!


I forgot to mention, if you pursue the tandem, each rig needs to be on its own generator. With the cooling system wired in series on two machines it creates a arc fault risk and power surges are common on temp panels for nc. So rather than risk frying two machines and the cooling unit (that would be thousands of dollars), we decided to bed mount two generators (that would be hundreds of dollars) on a truck so when we roll in, its lickity split. Two guys run the double wide highboy down a ramp and into the house while the third fires up the generators, which are already gased up and we have a tank and pump on the truck so they can run for a week straight if necessary. Let me just take and tell you that was a popular truck after the icestorm there a couple weeks back. Anyways, by the time the first two guys have them machine(s) in, they double back and haul in all the buckets of HANGFIRE and the third guy leapfrogs them to mask off the glass real quick. Its the best way we have found for spraying.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> :yes: I like that.
> 
> Now we have another problem that I have been facing ....working with this stuff in the winter. I have a makeshift window fan unit to circulate fresh air throughout the house to prevent spydering and even dry times but I havent mastered it ....what do you suggest?


Simple, just turn the fan the other way and exhaust it out of the house. Alot of people are afraid to exhaust spray mist, but we all know the dryfall rates of latex enamel, at least I would like to think we all did. So turn it around pointing out the window and then go to the other end of the house and crack one window one inch to get negative pressure in the house. It'll exchange like crazy. Usually, the machines generate enough external heat, believe it or not the cooling unit gives off a ton of heat (think car engine, runs hot and cool at the same time).


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> :yes: I like that.
> 
> Now we have another problem that I have been facing ....working with this stuff in the winter. I have a makeshift window fan unit to circulate fresh air throughout the house to prevent spydering and even dry times but I havent mastered it ....what do you suggest?


The other option, depending on your relationship with the builder, is the air exchange ductwork is always in before drywall, so they can have the mechanical guys run the air exchange during the spraying. Usually they ask us to paint the insides of the ductwork for the first 8' and then the grills that go over them. So if they run that it sucks the primer through the whole system and then later on you just shoot em with sealing paint. That is the ultimate air exchange because you dont have to open windows.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

http://www.wetndrywall.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=15

been looking to buy one of these but they are pricey ....and they do take a beating


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> http://www.wetndrywall.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=15
> 
> been looking to buy one of these but they are pricey ....and they do take a beating


Those are neat but you can build something better for less. Those guys think the size of the pump is key but its really not. A 440 with a modified diameter hose and a bored out tip will do it just fine, especially if properly cooled. When the material is that thick you want to move it slow anyways. You know how when you see a cement mixer on the road and its turning just enough to keep the cement mixing? Same concept. If you over atomize this stuff it gets REAL weird. Thats why we named it hangfire.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> Those are neat but you can build something better for less. Those guys think the size of the pump is key but its really not. A 440 with a modified diameter hose and a bored out tip will do it just fine, especially if properly cooled. When the material is that thick you want to move it slow anyways. You know how when you see a cement mixer on the road and its turning just enough to keep the cement mixing? Same concept. If you over atomize this stuff it gets REAL weird. Thats why we named it hangfire.


I'm starting to think my speeflo might make a better unit. Im not sure I want to dedicate that machine for it tho ....I'm just thinking with the slow piston technology and all......


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

We kinda hijacked PWGs thread with this nerdie tech talk but its good stuff. I wish we would have started this as its own thread in Commercial and Industrial Painting. The only other thing I will reveal about the tandem model we are building in our shop is that we added creature comforts...coffee cup holders and onboard satellite radio. We also added a cart that hitches to the double wide highboy...a 5er caddy. So when its time to move from area to area the guy swapping the fivers jumps on the cart, and the two spray techs pull the whole deal. Pretty badass.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> I'm starting to think my speeflo might make a better unit. Im not sure I want to dedicate that machine for it tho ....I'm just thinking with the slow piston technology and all......


We have a guy in our shop who is responsible for equipment maintenance - everything from roller frames to trucks. Everytime we part out a sprayer or buy one for parts, he catalogues what we have in stock and he says he has everything he would need to build something with the short stroke of a 440 and the the psi of a 1595l. He wants to do it and call it Frankenstein. I'm like what the heck, its a bunch of parts. But I really prefer the tandem supercooled 440 ideal. That would be lighter and a bit more nimble.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

If you really want to optimize your effectiveness then take the guy switching 5ers, put in a third line, may need one of these.


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## dragula (Nov 19, 2008)

It's good to see innovation. The only downfall is it seems I'm not as original as I though.

PRO-TIP: Get somebody well-versed in thermogenics, and study PVT diagrams.

You can actually control product temp which equates to all kinds of cool options, simply by changing mechanical profiles in you units.

Something else to look into: Piston design. I made my own piston for my little rig, and it made all the difference in the world for what your trying to achieve. 

A lathe, bridgeport, and hand grinder and your good to go.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

PRO TIP: ???? Did you read that somewhere?


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## dragula (Nov 19, 2008)

NEPS.US said:


> PRO TIP: ???? Did you read that somewhere?


Well, sort of.

I'm a mod at Mindandmuscle.net, it's a highly advanced medical/bodybuilding forum.

One of our most prolific posters is a smartass, and when making a point, he'll always start with "PRO-TIP:"

I wasn't using it in the same smart-ass context, but it has sort of stuck in my head.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

dragula said:


> Well, sort of.
> 
> I'm a mod at Mindandmuscle.net, it's a highly advanced medical/bodybuilding forum.
> 
> ...


You have alot of time on your hand for a Med student. Doogie Howser?


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## dragula (Nov 19, 2008)

NEPS.US said:


> You have alot of time on your hand for a Med student. Doogie Howser?


How do you figure?

I'm on winter break...And stuck inside with a torn trapezius.

Plus, MindAndMuscle teaches you FAR more then Med school, at least compared to where I'm at.

I could make the same argument about you, the successful business owner...
But then again.

Why do you feel the need to go off topic and sling **** when I was trying to add helpful info to the thread?

My comment about piston design was more directed to you, as you could accomplish what you wanted in your machine with a simple design change, as opposed to swapping and guessing.

Lighten up.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Drag

Clearly NEPS is limited only by his minds own perception of human potential. I for one believe that a brilliant multitasker could be successfully in medical school, running a paint contracting company which keeps 3 guys busy, be a moderator on a forum and only be 23 years old. Thats awesome. 

I bet your knowledge of piston fabrication is a result of your racing expertise:

_Now I'm only 23, but since I've been painting on my own (since 18, intermixed with my racing schedule) I can only recall one job where the trim was in excellent shape prior to my repaint. That was a $4mil home owned by a friend of mine, the most anal guy in the world, and he fired 4 painting companies when he was building the home_

Nice to have a Renaissance man onboard! _:thumbsup:_


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> I bet your knowledge of piston fabrication is a result of your racing expertise:
> 
> _Now I'm only 23, but since I've been painting on my own (since 18, intermixed with my racing schedule) I can only recall one job where the trim was in excellent shape prior to my repaint. That was a $4mil home owned by a friend of mine, the most anal guy in the world, and he fired 4 painting companies when he was building the home_
> 
> Nice to have a Renaissance man onboard! _:thumbsup:_


Certainly more than I can do. I can barely peal a banana and when finished, remember what I was going to do with it. 

Drag, 

What do you race?

I am assuming you customize the engine by regrinding the cams and making your own pistons and such. When I was your age, this was something I envied some of my friends being able to understand and accomplish.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

dragula said:


> How do you figure?
> 
> I'm on winter break...And stuck inside with a torn trapezius.
> 
> ...


Easy does it sparky ....you have more stories than Dr Seuss. I thought you were going boating the other day? Now I realize that I'm not as smart as your 23 years but isnt it hard to go boating with a torn trapezius? You might want to lay off the heavy weight on the shrugs. Form and motion ....as you, of course you know, is most important.

With all of your "down time" on break maybe you could look into the auto bailout and make a few suggestions to congress. 

It is a shame that with your vast knowledge about just about everything that you are wasted as a wanna-be painting contractor. 

God please dont ever let me get injured on a vacation to Florida!


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> Easy does it sparky ....you have more stories than Dr Seuss. I thought you were going boating the other day? Now I realize that I'm not as smart as your 23 years but isnt it hard to go boating with a torn trapezius? You might want to lay off the heavy weight on the shrugs. Form and motion ....as you, of course know, is most important.
> 
> With all of your "down time" on break maybe you could look into the auto bailout and make a few suggestions to congress.
> 
> ...


Have you not considered the possibility that he tore the trap while boating the other day? Thats what I'm betting happened. Everything the dude says is entirely possible and not that remarkable. I dont know what all the hoopla is. Dont you remember when you were 23 and there were more than 24 hours in a day?


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> Have you not considered that he tore the trap while boating the other day? Thats what I'm betting happened. Everything the dude says is entirely possible and not that remarkable. I dont know what all the hoopla is. Dont you remember when you were 23 and there were more than 24 hours in a day?


Ah yes I do. And I wasnt held up in my mother's basement moderating several forums and dreaming up multiple careers to go along with all of my personalities.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

It is nice to have a new Severson to kick around.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Thats what keeps this place interesting. As I have gotten to know a lot of people here, I have noticed that generally people either way overstate or way understate who they are and what they do or have done. Its not too hard to see the difference. Both approaches are needed here. There are guys who need to believe in the impossible dream, and there are others who prefer to deal in reality. There is room for all. I'm feelin it.


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## dragula (Nov 19, 2008)

I tore my trap jumping in bed to hug my girl.

I guess I can't compete with a bunch of internet bad-asses.


Normally you guys expect somebody to buzz off...But I think I'll stick around just to piss you off...

Amateurs...Better yet, I think I'll ban you.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Come on Dr, you cant just go dishing it out all the time, you gotta take it a little too. I am open minded about your accomplishments, which you do seem to trumpet readily, but I do see NEPS' reason for questioning some of the inconsistencies. 

Just a spoon full of sugar helps the medicine go down...:whistling2:


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

> As I have gotten to know a lot of people here, I have noticed that generally people either way overstate or way understate who they are and what they do or have done.


Which kind are you?


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

dragula said:


> I tore my trap jumping in bed to hug my girl.
> 
> I guess I can't compete with a bunch of internet bad-asses.
> 
> ...


 
 :laughing: girl? ...hahahaha ... probably fell out of your gaming chair playing WOW when your mom brought your tuna sandwich down to ya.
:lol: :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Bender said:


> Which kind are you?


I reveal very little about my business in this open forum. Those who I network with from here, I will share most any information with.


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

Thanks to all who donated time and energy into completely killing this thread.


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