# Non-toxic Clear Coat For Window Interiors?



## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Went out and looked at a really big job. Situation is that the HO did a major remodel of this home - almost started new from the ground up. They have basically run out of steam and are going to take out a construction loan to finish it off. The majority of the work to be done is in the downstairs area which can be closed off. But my main concerns are the interior sides of the wood windows located in the main living area upstairs. The windows are all in place and need to be stained _and_ clear coated. The HOs are living in the home now and they have a one month old baby so I'm leaning towards a waterborne polyurethane. My concern is UV breakdown of the finish down the line but with the infant to worry about I'm not sure any other product would be safer or more durable. Anyone have other sugggestions?


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I think you will be fine with a low voc waterborne, just do not use a regular oil stain with out extensive testing, double dry time, etc. or seal the stain with shellac prior to the wb clear. I do not really worry about good quality wb's on windows much. Lacquers breakdown fast there, but new homes with low e glass should do fine with most products. WB's will hold up better than lacquer IMHO due to better long term flexibility.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Thanks Dean. I never use lacquers around windows for the reasons mentioned. I typically use regular poly but with the infant I don't even want to go there so WB it will need to be. Getting a relatively safe product that will hold up reasonably well is my concern this time around. 

They want the upstairs windows and doors to be stained and clear coated but the downstairs windows (only paint grade doors downstairs) just clear coated. I'll be going with a stain that's compatible with the WB poly - just don't know what one yet.


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## dpeters (Jul 18, 2012)

I would recommend Target coatings Superclear polyurethane. I have used their EM6000 production lacquer many times and it is a great product. Their products were designed originally for the marine/boating industry. 

http://www.targetcoatings.com/products/coatings/em9000-super-clear-interior-polyurethane.html

I would also highly recommend SW Kem Aqua Plus waterborne lacquer - both are superior products - low odor, great finish and HO friendly. I have use them both for cabinet grade finishes over SW BAC solvent wiping stains. The only drawback is that it is imperative that you allow at least a 24-48 hour dry time on the stains in order to let all the oils completely dry. But if that finish schedule works for you then there are no adhesion or fisheye issues. I typically use a retarder when finishing in humid conditions.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

dpeters said:


> I would recommend Target coatings Superclear polyurethane. I have used their EM6000 production lacquer many times and it is a great product. Their products were designed originally for the marine/boating industry.
> 
> http://www.targetcoatings.com/products/coatings/em9000-super-clear-interior-polyurethane.html
> 
> I would also highly recommend SW Kem Aqua Plus waterborne lacquer - both are superior products - low odor, great finish and HO friendly. I have use them both for cabinet grade finishes over SW BAC solvent wiping stains. The only drawback is that it is imperative that you allow at least a 24-48 hour dry time on the stains in order to let all the oils completely dry. But if that finish schedule works for you then there are no adhesion or fisheye issues. I typically use a retarder when finishing in humid conditions.


What about UV breakdown with the lacquer product? On the inside of windows, even with UV blocking glass, I am concerned with this being an issue.


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## dpeters (Jul 18, 2012)

researchhound said:


> What about UV breakdown with the lacquer product? On the inside of windows, even with UV blocking glass, I am concerned with this being an issue.


I can only speak to my experience with both products and I have a dozen or so kitchens with at least 5 years of sun on them with no noticeable breakdown from UV damage. The Target 9300 Polycarbonate urethane is their best UV protection and is rated for marine useage. I would call Jeff Weiss and ask him for his recommendation. He is great and will answer all questions. 

He is the President and is totally willing to help out. I have used both products with great success. But i do understand that all products are somewhat user specific and we all have our favorites. They both have UV protection and I find that because of the acrylic content they seem a little more resilient than some of their solvent counterparts. IMHO


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

I like what I read about the product line - including the compatible stains. What's the availability of the Target Coatings? Are they an order only product or are they carried by particular suppliers?


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## dpeters (Jul 18, 2012)

researchhound said:


> I like what I read about the product line - including the compatible stains. What's the availability of the Target Coatings? Are they an order only product or are they carried by particular suppliers?


In my area (SC) they are order only, but have good service and quick turnaround. It requires me to be a little more focused to get enough product and on tome, but it has not hindered me yet. 
Homestead finishing products carries their products.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I tried the 9300 and it REALLY altered the color of the stain. A very bad hue, not yellow either. May have been a bad batch, but was not good. The target 2000 is their top line product and is interior or exterior rated. Phenominal appearance, looked and felt as nice as a good lacquer as well. Their top rated product. Hvlp's well, brushes well, should AAA well also.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Having something I could push through my HVLP would be a plus. Right now the entire downstairs is unfinished - not even sheet rocked - so there is a good place to spray all the doors. 

There are 19 doors that need to be stained and clear coated, 24 that need to be painted. 41 wood windows, 27 of which would be stained prior to clear coating. 11 skylight frames and about 6500' of trim. Then the entire downstairs (about 1800 sq.ft.)to be primed and painted after it's sheet rocked and textured. Spray all the primer and the ceilings then brush and roll the walls.

The HO's know me (I've worked on two previous properties for them) and like my work so I know they'd like to use me. But it's a big commitment for a OMS.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Fly me in, I'll help.

I got a cousin in Portland I could visit. He saved my life one time.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Sure you'd want to come down off that mountain?


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

researchhound said:


> Sure you'd want to come down off that mountain?


With all that extra oxygen available below, I could be like extra productive maybe.


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## ColorQuest (Mar 19, 2012)

researchhound said:


> Went out and looked at a really big job. Situation is that the HO did a major remodel of this home - almost started new from the ground up. They have basically run out of steam and are going to take out a construction loan to finish it off. The majority of the work to be done is in the downstairs area which can be closed off. But my main concerns are the interior sides of the wood windows located in the main living area upstairs. The windows are all in place and need to be stained and clear coated. The HOs are living in the home now and they have a one month old baby so I'm leaning towards a waterborne polyurethane. My concern is UV breakdown of the finish down the line but with the infant to worry about I'm not sure any other product would be safer or more durable. Anyone have other sugggestions?


FAUX EFFECTS makes a huge variety of high performance products. They are readily available online. A little spendy but imo worth every penny.Everyone of their products is compatible with each other. They probably make 7 or 8 different kinds of clear coats for everything from wood to metal, concrete, you name it.FE C-500 urethane is a clear coat that can even be used to seal water fountains. All the stains you could ever need. Everything from FE is waterbased low VOC. This could solve all your problems buddy.
Jay


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

ColorQuest said:


> FAUX EFFECTS makes a huge variety of high performance products. They are readily available online. A little spendy but imo worth every penny.Everyone of their products is compatible with each other. They probably make 7 or 8 different kinds of clear coats for everything from wood to metal, concrete, you name it.FE C-500 urethane is a clear coat that can even be used to seal water fountains. All the stains you could ever need. Everything from FE is waterbased low VOC. This could solve all your problems buddy.
> Jay


Thanks Jay. The windows and doors are all are high end and I just want to be certain that whatever I'm using will be the most durable and longest lasting available while still being as infant friendly as possible. Product cost is always important but it's not the main concern in this situation.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Anyone has successful results with SW _Wood Classics Waterborne Polyurethane Varnish_? I'm not opposed to ordering in a great product but it would be nice to have the convenience of being able to obtain it through a local supplier. What about their _SHER-WOOD Water Reducible Wiping Stain_? Anyone had any success with it? I would like to use products that are designed to be part of a compatible system if possible.

Same goes with the Benwood line of products from BM.


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

I love this stuff. Easiest to use, tough as nails.

http://www.ugl.com/zarWoodFinishing/zarInteriorPolyurethane/zarUltraMax.php


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

BrushJockey said:


> I love this stuff. Easiest to use, tough as nails.
> 
> http://www.ugl.com/zarWoodFinishing/zarInteriorPolyurethane/zarUltraMax.php


Thanks BJ. I see Sherwin Williams up in Portland carries it so I assume my local can order it in. Compatible stains available?


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

Should be good over any dried stain.
Zar makes great products in general- as does Modern Masters for stains and finishes.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

BrushJockey said:


> Should be good over any dried stain.
> Zar makes great products in general- as does Modern Masters for stains and finishes.


That seems to be what most are saying but I'm trying to stay with waterborne if I possibly can because of the baby in the home.

I haven't used any _Modern Masters'_ products but use _Old Masters_ on a regular basis. Not different divisions of the same company are they?


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

00ps Old masters is what I meant- modern Masters makes faux materials.
I have not found a wb stain that works- all are a pain to use . One area that mfg hasn't figured out.
One other approach would be to color the finish with tint- if the color that was needed wasn't very dark.


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## dpeters (Jul 18, 2012)

BrushJockey said:


> 00ps Old masters is what I meant- modern Masters makes faux materials.
> I have not found a wb stain that works- all are a pain to use . One area that mfg hasn't figured out.
> One other approach would be to color the finish with tint- if the color that was needed wasn't very dark.


I agree about the WB stains. I have not found one that worked like and finished as well as an oil. Especially if the desire is for rich, deep tones. However I do know that the SW WB stain has gotten very bad reviews at my local store. While I have not used this particular product from Target, I have used many of their products and love the quality. They do what they say and if true to form this may be a great product. I will be trying this one in the next month...

http://www.targetcoatings.com/products/stains.html


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## dpeters (Jul 18, 2012)

DeanV said:


> I tried the 9300 and it REALLY altered the color of the stain. A very bad hue, not yellow either. May have been a bad batch, but was not good. The target 2000 is their top line product and is interior or exterior rated. Phenominal appearance, looked and felt as nice as a good lacquer as well. Their top rated product. Hvlp's well, brushes well, should AAA well also.


I have had some of the same "hue" issues with the 9300, a more bluish "haze" than anything. Especially on dark stains, but that was several years ago and I believe that they have worked on that issue.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

researchhound said:


> That seems to be what most are saying but I'm trying to stay with waterborne if I possibly can because of the baby in the home.
> 
> Zar UltraMax (as a topcoat)is water borne urethane modified poly. I have used it a lot, and I really like it. It has very little odor, and I think it is pretty low VOC. The Ultramax stain I am less familiar with, but I believe (from data sheet) it is similar to the top coat in "healthiness."


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

The feedback I seem to be getting, both here and from my suppliers, is that the WB stains are an issue as is the WB wood conditioner. Both will raise the grain and then require additional sanding. These are factors that will bump up the labor price considerably considering the number of windows and doors involved. I will simply have to lay out the facts to them and let them decide how important stained versus natural wood is to them. Thanks for everyone's feedback. Any further contributions will still be appreciated.


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## briancreary (Oct 12, 2010)

I love ceramithane. Waterborne, and comes in matte, semi, and gloss. no to little smell and, in my experience, doesn't change the color of the stain drastically. love it.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

RH, 

No one's mentioned Diamond waterborne polyurethane. Under Flecto in Oakland Ca., this product was on the cutting edge of waterborne clear coats. They eventually came out with an exterior clear coat that I used on a piece of personal patio furniture that's held up well to this day. Last I read was that the product was bought out by Rustoleum. This product is available at Home Depot, and I'd be curious of any feed back.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

CApainter said:


> RH,
> 
> No one's mentioned Diamond waterborne polyurethane. Under Flecto in Oakland Ca., this product was on the cutting edge of waterborne clear coats. They eventually came out with an exterior clear coat that I used on a piece of personal patio furniture that's held up well to this day. Last I read was that the product was bought out by Rustoleum. This product is available at Home Depot, and I'd be curious of any feed back.


Thanks for the recommendation CA. Interesting how much of a difference there is in VOC levels between brands of waterborne polys and that is an important factor for me. The VOC rating is good on the Zar Ultra Max and it sounds like it would do nicely for this project. Spoke to my local SW manager today and he said he could order me in some. Cost is a little high but not prohibitive. I'll be presenting my proposal early this week and will be sharing my information and recommendations with the HOs. Then the ball will be in their court.


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

researchhound said:


> The feedback I seem to be getting, both here and from my suppliers, is that the WB stains are an issue as is the WB wood conditioner. Both will raise the grain and then require additional sanding. These are factors that will bump up the labor price considerably considering the number of windows and doors involved. I will simply have to lay out the facts to them and let them decide how important stained versus natural wood is to them. Thanks for everyone's feedback. Any further contributions will still be appreciated.


WB stains will not raise the grain like crazy - they've come a long way with wb's over the last few years. Trick is to mist the wood with some water first, let it dry, knock down the fuzz and _then_ stain. WB is also easier than solvent stains as it doesn't blotch as much. 

There are a lot of manufacturers of waterborne topcoats out there to choose from. Target has been mentioned here and I hear good things about them, but there is also general finishes, fuhr, campbell, valspar and many others who carry them. ICA makes some very well reviewed waterborne stains and I know for a fact they have good topcoats as well. 

Contact a few of the above companies and see what they can offer you. One of them is bound to have a system that will work for your application.


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