# Acrylic primer for cedar?



## toddcla2002 (Jan 16, 2008)

What acrylic primer could I use in one or two coats that would seal in tannin bleed? I would like to not use oil at all on my exteriors and this is practically the only area that I still use it on. Also....are there any good rust inhibitive primers that are acrylic? Thanks for your input.

~todd


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

Muralo makes an acrylic/latex primer exterior primer called cedar solution that stops tannins. But honestly - part of being a 'painter' is using the correct products and procedures - and whether or not oil based primers are considered 'old school' - they still are the appropriate coating for exterior cedar applications.


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## YubaPaintPro (Mar 2, 2008)

toddcla2002 said:


> What acrylic primer could I use in one or two coats that would seal in tannin bleed? I would like to not use oil at all on my exteriors and this is practically the only area that I still use it on. Also....are there any good rust inhibitive primers that are acrylic? Thanks for your input.
> 
> ~todd


Todd, I can certainly help you. Kelly-Moore has the best exterior latex tannin blocking primer! The product is #255. It is absolutely the best for cedar/redwood. It has great adhesion and will absolutely impress you.

Oil is great for its slow dry and tannic blocking, but a mess also. Send me a pm, and I will certainly help you w/ the best place/person to get in contact w/ for Kelly-Moore. We are increasing our presence in OR.

This product will not let you down.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

Brent - honestly, why do you guys formulate latex primers for bare wood? That has to be about the crummiest way to prep - there is no subsitute for oil primers on bare wood, especially tannin prone species. Latex just doesn't stick!


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## DW Custom Painting (Feb 17, 2008)

Once again... Zinssers cover stain:thumbup:


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## YubaPaintPro (Mar 2, 2008)

plainpainter said:


> Brent - honestly, why do you guys formulate latex primers for bare wood? That has to be about the crummiest way to prep - there is no subsitute for oil primers on bare wood, especially tannin prone species. Latex just doesn't stick!


plainpainter, thx for the reply!! I'd like somehow get you some of our latex primer. I have no idea where you are, but I need you to know that this product is quite simply unequaled as it relates to tannic bleed and adhesion. I actually had a customer come into my store years ago w/ a black eye. I asked him if he had a rough night @ the bar. He said "no", he had overspray on him and could not get it off w/ a washcloth in the shower. Thus the black eye.

I can't argue the knowledge and familiarity you have w/ oil. All I know is that our product works. End of story. I bet that this one sku is in our top 20 product lines as it relates to sales. 

We are a manufacturer that understands the needs of the painter. Point of application is where you make $$$$. You don't want to go back months later because of product failure, and we don't either. I hope this answers your question and I truly hope I don't sound defensive. Sorry if I have and sorry if you have not had any luck w/ latex primers.

If you are anywhere near KM, let me know. I will try to get you some.


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## Primer Guy (Apr 20, 2007)

KM makes some great paints and primers which work very well. If tannin bleed is an issue, get a hold of an additive call Bleed Control which can be used either in the the primer or topcoat. Solves your tannin problem in the areas where you need it. As far as oil vs acrylic on bare wood- XIM's Peel Bond will penetrate and lock on as well as oil alkyd primer. The technology of specialty primers has changed quite a bit.


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## slickshift (Apr 8, 2007)

toddcla2002 said:


> What acrylic primer could I use in one or two coats that would seal in tannin bleed?
> 
> Also....are there any good rust inhibitive primers that are acrylic?


Na gonna do it
Wouldn't be prudent...at this juncture









If there's good ones out there, someone around here will know
But I haven't found any yet


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## YubaPaintPro (Mar 2, 2008)

Todd, did you find a solution for this job? Send me a pm so I can try and get you in touch w/ our store to get you some 255 primer to try. It's the best. Thx. Brent

Or send me an email. [email protected]


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

Yuba - I am not anywhere your distribution region - so it wouldn't make sense to get me the product. As well - another reason I don't like latex primers - is that on some homes where water/moisture concentrates on siding - latex re-emulsifies - I've seen latex primers just come right back off wood. Not saying you don't have a great product - but all these claims companies have made over the years especially 'stain' killing latex primers - not one of these latex bonding/sealing primers has actually worked in my experience. The carriers in oil based products just bring resins so much farther into wood and really lock down a sealant coating. I would really like to believe latex primers work - really would.


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## YubaPaintPro (Mar 2, 2008)

Todd,
thx for your reply & candor. I respect your opinion and can't really argue w/ you either. I only know that in my over 10 years of selling our latex ext. primer (255), I have not been aware of 1 "failure". Not to say it hasn't, I just have not heard of 1.

I don't plan to change your mind over the internet either!  I sure appreciate your response Todd.


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## Primer Guy (Apr 20, 2007)

Todd- Peel Bond is an acrylic latex primer which does not fail over bare wood. Newer technology which has additives and chemistry that helps it penetrate and mechanically lock on to the surface.

XIM makes an acrylic rust inhibitive primer called Corrosion Control. You can have your professional paint supplier order it.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

The name is Dan, and I do use peelbond and mad-dog. I've just them in limited amounts so far over bare wood. I think of them as total surface primers to stabilize a nasty home - but I still 'spot' prime the wood with oil before going back over with peel bond.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

plainpainter said:


> The name is Dan, and I do use peelbond and mad-dog. I've just them in limited amounts so far over bare wood. I think of them as total surface primers to stabilize a nasty home - but I still 'spot' prime the wood with oil before going back over with peel bond.


Hey Plain I think he referring to the original post by Todd


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## DW Custom Painting (Feb 17, 2008)

plainpainter said:


> The name is Dan, and I do use peelbond and mad-dog. I've just them in limited amounts so far over bare wood. I think of them as total surface primers to stabilize a nasty home - but I still 'spot' prime the wood with oil before going back over with peel bond.


Oil all the way!!! :thumbup:


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## Primer Guy (Apr 20, 2007)

Dan, thanks for using our product. You can spot prime with Peel Bond. If you want to brush it for spot priming, our new product called Trim Magic is especially formulated to brush. There is some info at the Peel Bond site. It is so new that it isn't in many stores yet. You can brush it on and it flows out the brush strokes. Unbelievable 50% dry down. Max 30 mils in 1 coat dries to 15 mils.

The pictures from above were a job where there was a lot of new cedar shakes along with old. Peel Bond sealed up the new wood and provided a consistent surface to blend the new with the old. No shadowing where new shakes. This house actually had about 10% new shakes mostly in the porch area.

E-mail me if you would like a sample quart. I think you will be surprised with how well TM works.


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## slickshift (Apr 8, 2007)

Peel Bond is an acrylic primer for new wood?


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

Typical jobs I have used peel-bond, were like that rough sawn board with 2x2's over the vertical joints done around garage doors. Where there were layers of old oil paint, cracking - with cracks migrating through to the outer layers of latex. I would pressure wash as much as possible - sand - then spot prime with oil primer - then give the whole surface a peelbond application and then one coat of paint. So now the paint is perfect. I have used it as well on those old 'tongue 'n groove' ceilings on farmers porches. Where the the paint is thick and cracking like mad - I remember pressure washing like mad - then sanding down with 32 grit - didn't oil prime bare wood - and just went over with a whole application of peelbond then a coat of California Freshcoat exterior flat latex. Looked good! But the tannins bled through the sealer - I think the California paint held it in after that. Didn't lock in tannins like an oil primer.


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## Primer Guy (Apr 20, 2007)

Peel Bond is made for priming, sealing and resurfacing bare wood. As Plain Painter said it does not always block tannin depending on extent of tannin bleed. XIM makes a product called Bleed Control that you can add to the primer or topcoat if you are having a problem. BC works very well. Actually in the pictures above the painter used Bleed Control in the ceiling of the porch. Ceiling was new cedar car siding material which had lots of tannin.

As I have stated before Peel Bond is a different animal than normal acrylic primers. Painters who use it correctly love it and tend not to tell their competitors about it.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

Primer Guy, could I get some of your contact info in a PM? I'd love to know somebody at XIM - and maybe get you to give my paint dealer a 'deal' time to time. I have to special order the stuff most of the time - as most guys will use the Zinnser version for less money - it's just I have always considered XIM products to be like 'glue in a can'. 

Now do you think oil primers especially the 'deep' penetrating kind are totally obsolete with products like peelbond? Am I being a dinosaur insisting on oil primers for bare wood? What about less than perfect conditions - like ingress of water in lap joints of clapboards during heavy rainstorms making it's way down? I know it's always best to correct water problems - but in the real world - customers don't want to invest big money sometimes. Would your product hold out as well as a heavy duty Ben Moore style oil penetrating primer?


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## slickshift (Apr 8, 2007)

Primer Guy said:


> Peel Bond is made for priming, sealing and resurfacing bare wood.....
> 
> As I have stated before Peel Bond is a different animal than normal acrylic primers....


I have a real specific question, maybe you would know
We have a common problem out here with "wet" houses
They are usually old cottages, that were DIY or otherwise poorly "winterized"
The conversion often consisted of over-insulating and sealing absolutely every crack and/or vent
Needless to say, the houses now exude moisture, and any oil-based products peel right off
A latex/acrylic can be used, as they seem to allow the moisture to release from the building w/o peeling off the coating
But when cedar was used as the wood, there's the bleed though problem
Normally you'd want to use an oil-based primer, but with a wet house, it can peel off rather quickly

If Peel-Bond is a water-based primer, that does block most tannin bleed, that would be helpful
But my question is would it allow moisture from the inside of a "wet" house to escape...like most latex/acrylic products would?


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## Primer Guy (Apr 20, 2007)

Slickshift. There are a couple of issues at play here. Peel Bond is permeable just not as permeable as latex paint. Perm rating for oil primers is 4-5. Peel Bond is 15-20. Latex Paint is 30. Fundamental moisture problems are difficult to solve and Peel Bond is better than an oil primer but not the total solution. The tannin bleeding out is caused because the tannin lying below the surface is being re-wetted by the moisture escaping from the interior. Bleed Control will help this problem but constant rewetting of the tannin might be a continuing problem. The reason Peel Bond is not as permeable as latex paint is the same reason it blocks tannin a bit better than latex paint. It is the the thickness of the coating which is typically 5-10 mils of dry film for Peel Bond.


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## slickshift (Apr 8, 2007)

Thanks PG
What makes it breath is what makes it bleed eh?

Sounds like PB is somewhere in between acrylic and alkyd on this issue

Thank you for your informative reply
That is very helpful


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