# Spraying Primer...



## ang88

Hey guys, just joined the site and been painting for over 10 years. I got a question for you guys when it comes to using a sprayer for primer and finish paint...
I paint custom high end built homes but always roll the entire house because the sprayer always leaves an extremely rough surface (alot of time sanding afterwards). What are the tricks to spraying a smooth surface for primer and finish coats? Ive tried adding water but still comes rough, tips and tricks would greatly help me for large home coming up.


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## TJ Paint

use the right tip and pressure. I always backroll interior smooth walls, so it's a nonissue.


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## HJ61

If you are spraying walls without back roll you need to dust them off first, there's always a ton of drywall dust on paper at edge of mud. Also, need to make sure gc has floors swept and vacuumed prior or air raises all that dust onto walls. Much easier to back roll and not have to sand do hard. I use a 517 and back roll the primer as well. 2 people can mask and do 8000 sq' house easy in a 8 hr day. Then do pole sand and second coat next day, maybe with a 415 tip and back roll. Or just roll out with 14" or 18" rollers. There you go, that'll be 14000 bd ft, primed and first coated in 32 hrs.


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## davedrew

ang88 said:


> the sprayer always leaves an extremely rough surface (alot of time sanding afterwards).


I would recommend sanding before the final coat anyway, but are you wiping the drywall down before you spray the primer? That will minimize the nubs. I would also recommend back rolling after spraying the primer.

When you spray drywall, the dust and hairs raise up in the paint. Spraying primer over dusty drywall without back rolling doesn't create good adhesion either. That new drywall might look okay, but there is a lot more dust on it than what meets the eye.

I used an extension pole with a sanding block and wrapped a cloth around the sanding block, then used that to quickly wipe down the wall from top to bottom (5 minutes per room tops.) But, I still ended up sanding with 220 to make sure the final coat was smooth as possible. I would then use a pure lambswool 1/4 in. nap and roll the final coat.

When you get a system down for sanding the walls before the final coat, you can sand a room in less than five minutes using a sanding block with 220 on an extension pole. Five minutes is not a big deal.

I also bid the job to do the extra steps and made sure the homeowner knew about the details. 

If you're working for GC's doing new homes, they could care less about the details. One of the reasons I stopped doing new homes. Homeowners in high end homes on the other hand love to hear about the details and don't mind paying extra when you take the time to explain exactly what you will do.


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## IHATE_HOMEDEPOT

HJ61 said:


> Also, need to make sure gc has floors swept and vacuumed prior or air raises all that dust onto walls.


 Good tip and I usually spray next to the floor while it is still clean. If you do the ceilings first there will be a lot of dust accumulated and it will bounce up onto the wall when you spray the bottom.


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## ang88

Thanks for the response and tips guys, I guess my problem in the past has been not back rolling the walls


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## Epoxy Pro

I usually spray new construction when priming, I use a 211 or 217 tip, more control and less wasted over spray, I hardly back roll as most of the ceilings are smooth and I cross spray, I never see any lines or weak spots. Same if I spray primer on walls. I use BM Super Hide flat white, if i do need to touch up the ceiling (small spots) I dry brush which if done right there will be no brush marks for larger spots I will re spray that section.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR

cdpainting said:


> I usually spray new construction when priming, I use a 211 or 217 tip,


Last time I used a 211 tip was for spindles.


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## Epoxy Pro

I use 211 or 217 inside and out, so much less over spray


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## TJ Paint

cdpainting said:


> I use 211 or 217 inside and out, so much less over spray


You use a 4 inch fan to spray walls and ceilings?


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## 1963 Sovereign

my tip,use a 517 and backroll.


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## gabe

I like a 619 or a 1225 for spraying primer on walls and ceilings followed by a 18 roller 3/8 nap. Overspray is usually not an issue on NC.


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## Epoxy Pro

TJ Paint said:


> You use a 4 inch fan to spray walls and ceilings?


Yes with our sprayer 2 guns at same time, we can whip out a large ceiling fast, I have used 517's and don't really care for the wide spray pattern I have tested both inside and outside way less paint loss from smaller tips. Also with the small tips I can get real close to trim when spraying finish on exteriors. I hardly spray finish on interiors, I prefer to cut with brush and roll with an 18" roller. I have been spraying like this for over 18 years and it works for me.


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## gabe

The airless is very good tool, you can use a 1225 and go to town or use a 210 and do trim. The bigger the tip the more overspray.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR

gabe said:


> I like a 619 or a 1225 for spraying primer on walls and ceilings followed by a 18 roller 3/8 nap. Overspray is usually not an issue on NC.


Same set up here. Hard to get 1225 or 1227 at the Paint Stores.


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## Epoxy Pro

gabe i'm guessing on the nc jobs you do they must be pretty cleared out places? I work for a home builder some times and it is a cluster f*&k, tons of carpentry tools and stuff laying round that I don't want to cover with over sray and im tired of moving them from room to room so I dont bury them another reason I use smaller tips.


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## 6126

621 for walls and ceilings on NC is my choice


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## Oden

.419 is what we use. by the time I replace it for all practice purposes it's a .621 or bigger for quite a few...


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## caulktheline

cdpainting said:


> I use 211 or 217 inside and out, so much less over spray


I couldn't imagine doing ceilings with a 211 or 217. It would feel almost like I had decided to brush the whole ceiling.
No disrespect, I'm sure you are super fast with it, otherwise you wouldn't be making any money. But damn son.


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## leftcoastpainter

Few things for dust...Use a compressor to blow out the dust on the walls if the GC has one, use a lambswool duster with extension pole, always spray in a direction that pushes the dust away ending up in a low light corner or closet. Another thing you have to look for is bad tapers ahead of you. These guys can burn through the paper on new walls and cause it to raise up. 

I've done 80-100 unit condo's both by only spraying and then by spray and back roll. Spraying only (crosshatching) can work but I feel you waste quite a bit of paint and inevitably have two different finishes/surface profiles so touch up is a pain. Back rolling is essential on smooth walls for good touch up when trades are present. And always try to roll with a finish stroke down from the primer to the finish. This will retain the same texture/profile on smooth walls, especially where there are skylights and hi vis areas. 

I like to spray with a 619-1224 tip with a 18" 1/2" nap and 9" 1/2" nap. Good communication between the sprayer and backroller is essential. 

For high end kitchen lids in egg/satin/semi with lots of cans it's hard to back roll these finish coats. Cross hatching works well.


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## leftcoastpainter

cdpainting said:


> Yes with our sprayer 2 guns at same time, we can whip out a large ceiling fast, I have used 517's and don't really care for the wide spray pattern I have tested both inside and outside way less paint loss from smaller tips. Also with the small tips I can get real close to trim when spraying finish on exteriors. I hardly spray finish on interiors, I prefer to cut with brush and roll with an 18" roller. I have been spraying like this for over 18 years and it works for me.



On exteriors I've done what you're talking about, but int walls? How many tips do you blow threw? I used to spray condo's/apt's like this, but would spray the trim/doors and shield then touch up the walls, but not the opposite.


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## Epoxy Pro

I got 30 tips when I bought my sprayer,they came free with it, I don't spray a whole lot of interiors only new construction when we get them and have not had that many where I can, most of the new construction I usually end up cutting and rolling because there are not enough rooms ready. I have sprayed 4 interiors with this machine in the last 6 months.


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## greg cain

If your not back rolling you really have to heavy it up. "piss coating" pulls that fiber in that paper up.


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## Susan

What is "piss coating"? In my mind, it could be a number of things. What's the DC definition?


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## ReNt A PaInTeR

I'm curious as well. Never heard that before.


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## Epoxy Pro

Piss coating or mist coating? I have piss coated a wall before after a few drinks.


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## Oden

A piss coat when spraying constitutes of a very fast pass over the substrate with the fan often with watered down paint.


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## Gough

Oden said:


> A piss coat when spraying constitutes of a very fast pass over the substrate with the fan often with watered down paint.


This is what the GWB contractors around here do on NC when they have to prime. I've seen them get better than 1200 ft^^2/gal.

We've always called it a mist coat. I'd never heard it put that other way...but I like it.


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## jpaintingservice

I've found a little prep work before spraying goes a long way in the end. Sweeping the walls are a must before painting, and I thoroughly vacuum the window sills and floors too. Back rolling is always a good idea as well. (Especially on ceilings) I've definitely worked for the contractor that leaves a mess for you to clean up. My solution is to stipulate all rooms to be free and clear of tools/debris in the contract before I show up. Otherwise I will incur a clean-up fee.


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## spraytech

The key to a great prime job is simple. Dust, backroll and leave the walls almost dripping wet w/ paint. DO NOT just light mist or be greedy w/ the amount of primer used. I mean a seriously heavy coat w/ a 1/2 in nap on an 18 in frame. The idea is to build the wall out w/ enough millage to level the humps in drywall. Every GC and sheet rocker love my primer coats as doing it so heavy really leaves the walls super smooth and very level. Sure you use a bit more primer but the results are well worth it. Using this method sanding is very minimal if any plus your top coat lays down so nice.

I'm commonly requested by GC because of how nice the walls look from such a primer coat. When doing this you may think "damn that's too heavy" but its not. Just look for slides and it will lay down really nice.

I use a Graco 1095 w/ 415 tip


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## Oden

spraytech said:


> The key to a great prime job is simple. Dust, backroll and leave the walls almost dripping wet w/ paint. DO NOT just light mist or be greedy w/ the amount of primer used. I mean a seriously heavy coat w/ a 1/2 in nap on an 18 in frame. The idea is to build the wall out w/ enough millage to level the humps in drywall. Every GC and sheet rocker love my primer coats as doing it so heavy really leaves the walls super smooth and very level. Sure you use a bit more primer but the results are well worth it. Using this method sanding is very minimal if any plus your top coat lays down so nice.
> 
> I'm commonly requested by GC because of how nice the walls look from such a primer coat. When doing this you may think "damn that's too heavy" but its not. Just look for slides and it will lay down really nice.
> 
> I use a Graco 1095 w/ 415 tip


 You should definitely try a .419 if you haven't or try it again if you have. Just sayin is all.


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## spraytech

I actually meant 417 tip but sure 419 would work ad well. As long as you backroll tip size isn't really important. More painter preference really.


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## ROOMINADAY

spraytech said:


> The key to a great prime job is simple. Dust, backroll and leave the walls almost dripping wet w/ paint. DO NOT just light mist or be greedy w/ the amount of primer used. I mean a seriously heavy coat w/ a 1/2 in nap on an 18 in frame. The idea is to build the wall out w/ enough millage to level the humps in drywall. Every GC and sheet rocker love my primer coats as doing it so heavy really leaves the walls super smooth and very level. Sure you use a bit more primer but the results are well worth it. Using this method sanding is very minimal if any plus your top coat lays down so nice.
> 
> I'm commonly requested by GC because of how nice the walls look from such a primer coat. When doing this you may think "damn that's too heavy" but its not. Just look for slides and it will lay down really nice.
> 
> I use a Graco 1095 w/ 415 tip


Out of curiosity, using your method how any square feet per gallon should I estimate.

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Paint Talk


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## BrushJockey

I have a bunch of ceilings on a remodel ( light knockdown) to do on Mon- do any of you one man shops attempt a backroll? Seems impossible.


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## Oden

I almost always spray and Backroll by myself. I prefer it. If I do have a partner I'll spray till I bury him then I Backroll till the Backroll catches up then run it again. I couldn't imagine needing a guy to Backroll if working on something as small as a house.


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## BrushJockey

You don't have a problem with it setting up?


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## Oden

BrushJockey said:


> You don't have a problem with it setting up?


Nah. Just got to get the feel for how far ahead to spray and how heavy to put it on.


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## A+HomeWork

ROOMINADAY said:


> Out of curiosity, using your method how any square feet per gallon should I estimate.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-I747M using Paint Talk


I put it on similarly and don't think I'm using that much more and a few extra gallons in NC isn't much of a cost factor in the big picture.


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## A+HomeWork

cdpainting said:


> I usually spray new construction when priming, I use a 211 or 217 tip, more control and less wasted over spray, I hardly back roll as most of the ceilings are smooth and I cross spray, I never see any lines or weak spots. Same if I spray primer on walls. I use BM Super Hide flat white, if i do need to touch up the ceiling (small spots) I dry brush which if done right there will be no brush marks for larger spots I will re spray that section.


I know you know your system, but I told my rep I was using a smaller tip and he suggested it could over stress my rig due to atomization issues with thicker paint. I went up a size, but still shoot with a tip smaller than what the bucket says.


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## spraytech

ROOMINADAY said:


> Out of curiosity, using your method how any square feet per gallon should I estimate.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SGH-I747M using Paint Talk


I can't really give you an exact estimate but its not that much more than a regular primer coat. The good part is primer is cheap so its a very good way to really make your work shine w/o killing your budget. 

To other guy asking about spraying and backroll by himself. Yes its very possible to do just spray out roughly 10ft at a time then shift back to roller. Takes alittle more time but very doable.

I invite all painters to at least try this method and upon doing so will be wondering "why the hell haven't I been doing this all along". It looks really good guys and you'll get good compliments from h/o or gc which lead to more work and a solid reputation.


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## Gough

BrushJockey said:


> I have a bunch of ceilings on a remodel ( light knockdown) to do on Mon- do any of you one man shops attempt a backroll? Seems impossible.


We don't backroll on textured GWB. I've seen it cause a lot more problems than it cures.


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## spraytech

Gough is right just as spraying soffens it up and rolling pulls it off. Just spray a nice heavy coat and should be fine.


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## Northwest_painter

Out west people love the orange peel look on walls not many smooth level 4 or five wall all textured. the rocker does his mud tape sand little more mud samd then they shoot the walls with a light texture and call it good. then we come in a spray there is almost zero dust on the walls when they shoot the mud on them first. less prep time.


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## Gough

Northwest_painter said:


> Out west people love the orange peel look on walls not many smooth level 4 or five wall all textured. the rocker does his mud tape sand little more mud samd then they shoot the walls with a light texture and call it good. then we come in a spray there is almost zero dust on the walls when they shoot the mud on them first. less prep time.


I have to remind myself that, in other parts of the country, textured GWB is unusual. I'm not sure why it is the norm here in the West. Other than my own house, I could probably count the "smoothwall" residential NC jobs that I've seen in 30+ years on one hand...even the one that went through the table saw.


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## Gough

spraytech said:


> Gough is right just as spraying soffens it up and rolling pulls it off. Just spray a nice heavy coat and should be fine.


We rarely see it pull off the texture. More commonly, we see stripes, blockiness, or roller tracks because the guys rolling aren't keeping up with the guy(s) spraying. By the time the get it back rolled, it has started to dry and they end up throwing on a lot more stipple in some areas. This isn't helped at all by the tendency, at least around here, by a lot of NC painters to try to get 1000 ft**2/gal.


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## A+HomeWork

I've gotten to where I just hope they specify flat ceilings so I can spray heavy and roll hard without worry, then egshel the walls with a smoother line-free sheen. 
I know that means cutting-in, but tall ceilings in rooms with lots of daylight are hard to get perfectly even for me.


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## woodcoyote

cdpainting said:


> I usually spray new construction when priming, I use a 211 or 217 tip, more control and less wasted over spray, I hardly back roll as most of the ceilings are smooth and I cross spray, I never see any lines or weak spots. Same if I spray primer on walls. I use BM Super Hide flat white, if i do need to touch up the ceiling (small spots) I dry brush which if done right there will be no brush marks for larger spots I will re spray that section.



What about something that can do both? Ever try the Titan TR2 tips? They have 2 sizes in 1 "tip". 517 and 215 is the regular/common tip size, I believe. Not 100% sure about the orfice size of the small tip, but I do know it's a 2 aka 4" fan. 

I use them all the time and love them! I can do the walls/ceiling with the 517 and then a twist of the knob and I can do jambs or even around window sills etc. without having to go for another tip or clean the old tip etc. 

Check them out you might like them who knows.


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## Epoxy Pro

woodcoyote said:


> What about something that can do both? Ever try the Titan TR2 tips? They have 2 sizes in 1 "tip". 517 and 215 is the regular/common tip size, I believe. Not 100% sure about the orfice size of the small tip, but I do know it's a 2 aka 4" fan.
> 
> I use them all the time and love them! I can do the walls/ceiling with the 517 and then a twist of the knob and I can do jambs or even around window sills etc. without having to go for another tip or clean the old tip etc.
> 
> Check them out you might like them who knows.


I have seen these, my crappy Milwaukee airless/hvlp combo had one (yes I am one of those suckers that tried it and yes I hate it with a passion). I will get a couple and try them, I have been using the small tips since I started spraying 18+ yrs ago and getting used to the bigger tips is hard for me but will give it a shot. I have a commercial job i'm bidding on and will try a bigger tip there if I get the job, I need to get 2 at a time as my sprayer uses 2 guns at the same time.


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## curiouspainter

@ dust technique: Do you use a compressor (if available) AND lambswool duster or is it one or the other? Do you use multiple dusters (if say doing a full NC house) or how far do you go before changing? 1 per room for example? Does dust build up become ineffective after very long with the lambswool?


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## curiouspainter

Oden said:


> Nah. Just got to get the feel for how far ahead to spray and how heavy to put it on.





Oden said:


> I almost always spray and Backroll by myself. I prefer it. If I do have a partner I'll spray till I bury him then I Backroll till the Backroll catches up then run it again. I couldn't imagine needing a guy to Backroll if working on something as small as a house.


Glad to hear this. I haven't attempted it and just hearing that it can work well gives me the courage to do it that way as I'm usually a one-man op.


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## finishesbykevyn

curiouspainter said:


> @ dust technique: Do you use a compressor (if available) AND lambswool duster or is it one or the other? Do you use multiple dusters (if say doing a full NC house) or how far do you go before changing? 1 per room for example? Does dust build up become ineffective after very long with the lambswool?


Dude. Thread is 8 yrs old. Let it go..


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## Woodco

curiouspainter said:


> @ dust technique: Do you use a compressor (if available) AND lambswool duster or is it one or the other? Do you use multiple dusters (if say doing a full NC house) or how far do you go before changing? 1 per room for example? Does dust build up become ineffective after very long with the lambswool?


You dont need to dust textured walls, as this 8 year old thread is referring to.


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## Joe67

C'mon. I've been sitting on this thread for 8 years still waiting for an answer.


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## Woodco

Joe67 said:


> C'mon. I've been sitting on this thread for 8 years still waiting for an answer.


 Has your paint dried yet?


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## Joe67

Woodco said:


> Has your paint dried yet?


Let me clarify then. I've been sitting on the thread for 8 years...still holding a blow dryer on the paint to dry to get it to dry. It's coming along. Few more minutes or years...


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## finishesbykevyn

Joe67 said:


> Let me clarify then. I've been sitting on the thread for 8 years...still holding a blow dryer on the paint to dry to get it to dry. It's coming along. Few more minutes or years...


I told you, you should have dusted first Joe.


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