# Rough Pine Barn Exterior



## Vincent01 (Apr 22, 2020)

Hello,

Figured I'd come to ask the experts about the best paint to use on fresh (humidity 8%) rough cut pine Board and Batton siding for a barn. I've used Zinsser Oil Based primer to seal in the wood. (Should I shellac prime the knots in addition?) Was thinking of a Flat or Satin Finish White. Sprayer or Roll on. Any reason or benefit to use a solid stain like Arborcoat as opposed to a good exterior latex?

Thanks for your advice in advance!

Sorry if this has been answered in a previous thread.


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## SS_painting (Jan 11, 2020)

Vincent01 said:


> Hello,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


BIN is an interior product. If your still getting bleed through on the knots, hit them again with your oil primer.
I would use a Matte finish on the body, and a satin on all the trim/facia.
Arborcoat is a decent product, but expensive in my opinion. 

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk


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## Vincent01 (Apr 22, 2020)

Would there be any benefit to use Arborcoat on top of the oil primer? 
Any recommendations for a proper exterior paint? Valspar or Kilz Siding Barn and Fence paint?


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## SS_painting (Jan 11, 2020)

Vincent01 said:


> Would there be any benefit to use Arborcoat on top of the oil primer?
> 
> Any recommendations for a proper exterior paint? Valspar or Kilz Siding Barn and Fence paint?


If you're concerned about tannin bleed then you should prime. I don't think Arborcoat comes in an alkyd.

I like products from Dulux, and Cloverdale paint. The only killz I've ever used was a primer, never a finish product. Valspar from Lowe's/Home Depot is trash, I hear they have other good products, nothing I can recommend. 

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## Vincent01 (Apr 22, 2020)

Anyone have a US recommendations?


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Vincent01 said:


> Hello,
> 
> Figured I'd come to ask the experts about the best paint to use on fresh (humidity 8%) rough cut pine Board and Batton siding for a barn. I've used Zinsser Oil Based primer to seal in the wood. (Should I shellac prime the knots in addition?) Was thinking of a Flat or Satin Finish White. Sprayer or Roll on. Any reason or benefit to use a solid stain like Arborcoat as opposed to a good exterior latex?
> 
> ...


solid Stains are less film forming and breath better. Arborcoat solid is a great product. Excellent coverage, color retention and easy recoat. Tints on GenneX too.


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## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

I would have just stained it from the start. Priming before stain is ... well ... weird. It means that the stain can't "stain."


Are you a painter, or just some guy doing a DIY job on a barn?


If your knots are bleeding and you're worried about that, then as as stated just spot them a 2nd time with the oil primer. Then forget the stain. There's no "staining" that happens once you seal with a primer. I'm not saying that you _*can't*_ put something like a solid stain over a primer. You can. But once you prime it's a paint job, not a stain job. Topcoat your primer with your chosen color in MoorGard. Or Arborcoat if you like. That'll be fine too especially if you want a flat finish. If you want any sheen at all, then stain won't do.


Spray if you like, but you need to backroll in any case, so just choose what's more efficient based on contingencies. Often a spray and backroll is faster. But on smaller jobs the time costs of getting into and out of a spray set up don't pay off.


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## Vincent01 (Apr 22, 2020)

I'm the builder owner with some paint experience. Questioning why the painters for this job would recommend a solid stain rolled over an oil primer. As far as I know that wouldn't make sense, because as you say, the primer negates the stain effect.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

SS_painting said:


> BIN is an interior product. If your still getting bleed through on the knots, hit them again with your oil primer.
> I would use a Matte finish on the body, and a satin on all the trim/facia.
> Arborcoat is a decent product, but expensive in my opinion.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk


 That's actually incorrect. Spot priming knots with Bin is fine. It's rated for spot exterior.
Especially if your going white it's a good idea. I'm assuming your priming with the Zinzzer Cover Stain, which is also fine. On Rough Pine, arbourcoat Solid stain would be great over that. 
It would show a bit more of the grain and may weather better than a paint. A lot of exterior Water based stains actually recommend priming with oil prior to application..


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Vincent01 said:


> I'm the builder owner with some paint experience. Questioning why the painters for this job would recommend a solid stain rolled over an oil primer. As far as I know that wouldn't make sense, because as you say, the primer negates the stain effect.


Solid Stains basically are paint, no problem going over a primer in fact it's recommended. Prime the backside and end grain while your at it.


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## SS_painting (Jan 11, 2020)

finishesbykevyn said:


> That's actually incorrect. Spot priming knots with Bin is fine. It's rated for spot exterior.
> 
> Especially if your going white it's a good idea. I'm assuming your priming with the Zinzzer Cover Stain, which is also fine. On Rough Pine, arbourcoat Solid stain would be great over that.
> 
> It would show a bit more of the grain and may weather better than a paint. A lot of exterior Water based stains actually recommend priming with oil prior to application..


While I agree, you can. I don't trust it. I've seen it fail, and dealt with the reproductions of it to many times. 

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

SS_painting said:


> While I agree, you can. I don't trust it. I've seen it fail, and dealt with the reproductions of it to many times.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk



I don't see any reason to use shellac exterior. If you have a bleeding knot its more effective to take a torch to it. scrape off the solidified goo then prime with an exterior oil primer.


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> I don't see any reason to use shellac exterior. If you have a bleeding knot its more effective to take a torch to it. scrape off the solidified goo then prime with an exterior oil primer.


I was given a copy of the book in the following link my first year in the business. It’s a pretty good read. Page 76 makes a brief mention about pitch bleeding knots without the use of shellac. Page 73 & 74 provides some useful info as well. 

I’ve been pitch bleeding knots since the inception of my business and it’s the only fail proof method. A heat gun is equally as effective as an open flame. I think I recall posting a story about one of my father’s workers burning down the front of a home utilizing a blowtorch when burning off paint. Always keep a fire extinguisher nearby!

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg...VPUB-C13-67f44fcce7c2c10e148d74789a247639.pdf


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Redux said:


> I was given a copy of the book in the following link my first year in the business. It’s a pretty good read. Page 76 makes a brief mention about pitch bleeding knots without the use of shellac. Page 73 & 74 provides some useful info as well.
> 
> I’ve been pitch bleeding knots since the inception of my business and it’s the only fail proof method. A heat gun is equally as effective as an open flame. I think I recall posting a story about one of my father’s workers burning down the front of a home utilizing a blowtorch when burning off paint. Always keep a fire extinguisher nearby!
> 
> https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg...VPUB-C13-67f44fcce7c2c10e148d74789a247639.pdf



Yes, with the advent of li-po battery powered heat guns I could see them being effective. Being tethered to a wall not so much.


A painter I know, his mentor almost burnt an old place down using a torch. The guy inside smelled smoke. Turned out the insulation was old news paper.


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> I don't see any reason to use shellac exterior. If you have a bleeding knot its more effective to take a torch to it. scrape off the solidified goo then prime with an exterior oil primer.


I’m wondering if the shellac-varnish mentioned in the book would work better than BIN. It appears to be a mixture of orange shellac and castung rather than the dewaxed/bleached shellac flake found in BIN. Thinking the castung might have been used to provide flexibility to the brittle shellac film.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> I don't see any reason to use shellac exterior. If you have a bleeding knot its more effective to take a torch to it. scrape off the solidified goo then prime with an exterior oil primer.


 But how many people will actually do this. Last thing I'm carrying around on a house is a blow torch..I do however agree tha BIN is brittle and may eventually flake off.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

finishesbykevyn said:


> cocomonkeynuts said:
> 
> 
> > I don't see any reason to use shellac exterior. If you have a bleeding knot its more effective to take a torch to it. scrape off the solidified goo then prime with an exterior oil primer.
> ...


How come? They're really useful for various reasons. Plus now that methylene chloride is banned I bet you'll see them more commonly used for stripping paint.

IMO it's easier to carry around a small propane/map torch than a gallon of shellac.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> How come? They're really useful for various reasons. Plus now that methylene chloride is banned I bet you'll see them more commonly used for stripping paint.
> 
> IMO it's easier to carry around a small propane/map torch than a gallon of shellac.


Hmm. You gotta good point there. I wouldn't however be handing torches out to all of my crew though. Haha.


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## Vincent01 (Apr 22, 2020)

Is it helpful to put an acrylic primer on top of the oil primer before the waterbased stain? 

Plan
1st Step: Cover Stain Oil-based primer all 6 sides.
2nd Step: BIN spot prime
3rd Step: Water-based primer
4th Step: 1st coat Solid White Arborcoat
5th Step: 2nd coat Solid White Arborcoat

...a blowtorch prep would be interesting...


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Vincent01 said:


> Is it helpful to put an acrylic primer on top of the oil primer before the waterbased stain?
> 
> Plan
> 1st Step: Cover Stain Oil-based primer all 6 sides.
> ...


No point in a second coat of primer. Overkill IMO.


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## Lakesidex (Oct 9, 2011)

Vincent01 said:


> Is it helpful to put an acrylic primer on top of the oil primer before the waterbased stain?
> 
> Plan
> 1st Step: Cover Stain Oil-based primer all 6 sides.
> ...


I would definitely recommend a product like Benjamin Moore 094 over the coverstain if your going to do a full prime. If you want to spot prime the knots with CS first then knock yourself out.

Common tried and true procedure and in my opinion one of the best is priming all 6 sides with the 094 then 2 coats of a high quality acrylic solid coat stain.

That is almost exactly the procedure I used on my own house with the same rough saw pine. I primed the 6 sides on saw horses before the siding was installed and then did a second coat of oil primer once it was installed on the house. Maybe a little overkill but that is what I did. Stuff looks great.


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