# Caulking Question



## UnDeRtOw00 (Feb 20, 2009)

Hey, I have been doing alot of new construction to fill in the void between good jobs and as we all know there isn't alot of money in it. This is going to sound like im cheaping out on my paintjob but the contractor refuses to pay more and i need a way to make this more profitable. I am really good with a caulking gun and can make caulking the baseboards look just like a good cut line. Wondering if there is an acrylic caulking out there that wont yellow and dries like a semi gloss white paint? This would save me from cutting in along baseboards and make the job worth while. I can't believe im even thinking of doing this as I dont' really beleive in it. Caulk must be painted. BUT, if the contractor refuses to pay more, this would be a great way to make the job profitable. Any suggestions? If there is no product out there such as this, we should all work on creating such a thing so we can sit back and get rich....Wouldn't you use it?


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

UnDeRtOw00 said:


> Hey, I have been doing alot of new construction to fill in the void between good jobs and as we all know there isn't alot of money in it.
> 
> _I dont know that_.
> 
> ...


----------



## UnDeRtOw00 (Feb 20, 2009)

THanks for the caulky attitude!

Been doing this a over 25 years..dont' need anyone to tell me how to paint scott. I have never considered anything like this before and my paint job for NC is above and beyond. I always caulk all trim before painting but recently considered it only on baseboards. All other companies in my area do things like tinting primer so they get away with one coat one finish. I do everything properly but thought this would be ok since my overall paintjob for nc is above average. That is only if there was such a product that didn't yellow and dried with a semi gloss finish. Thanks for your thoughts anyway!

Oh, and at one time painters used to paint homes with only jumbo brushes...then they came up with a roller... New products are made everyday. Just because we have done things the way we have all these years doesn't mean there wont oneday be a new way...sorry for asking such a dumb question i guess.


----------



## slickshift (Apr 8, 2007)

*Semantics aside...*

If you are using SW White paint, use SW White caulk
If you are using BM Navajo White paint, use BM Navajo White caulk
If you are using a subtle color, use a tint-able caulk (now available)

I appreciate your position, but I must add that none are a perfect solution
If the client doesn't want to pay, well then they get what they pay for
Maybe it'll be "good enough" for them

I'd also like to add that the best caulker I've ever had on a crew, or ever seen for that matter, we still painted after he was done to make it look right


----------



## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

I of course agree that caulk must be painted. I really do not see how that would save you much time/money either way the trim is getting caulked and either way the trim is getting painted. I do a lot of NC and have for many years and sometimes just readjusting your steps can be a time/money saver. I would break down your system again and look for other alternatives to improving the time factor. Another alternative might be that you simply agreed to do the jobs to cheap. 

How many guys are working these jobs? 
How large ar the jobs? 
How much of a trim package goes into them such as crown, mantles, wainscott? 
How long are you spending on these jobs? 
Are you utilizing your sprayer? 
How long are you spending on touch ups?


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Undertowowo

I'm sorry, I didnt realize that you were so experienced and know what you are doing. But as worky said, I dont understand, if you are talking about caulking, why not just do it before you paint?


----------



## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

I think we had this discussion a couple of years ago....... :whistling2:


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> I think we had this discussion a coupple of years ago....... :whistling2:


You might be thinking of the paint before priming or the underwear over whites discussions. Sometimes things get out of sequence.


----------



## UnDeRtOw00 (Feb 20, 2009)

Workaholic said:


> I of course agree that caulk must be painted. I really do not see how that would save you much time/money either way the trim is getting caulked and either way the trim is getting painted. I do a lot of NC and have for many years and sometimes just readjusting your steps can be a time/money saver. I would break down your system again and look for other alternatives to improving the time factor. Another alternative might be that you simply agreed to do the jobs to cheap.
> 
> How many guys are working these jobs?
> How large ar the jobs?
> ...


Thanks for the replies. Yes, i spray and backroll primer and ceilings. Also spray all doors. Only me and my worker on these. We make pretty good time but I just think it should be better. These are homes roughly 3500-4500 sq/feet. I have also tried spraying all trim before it goes up but after I caulk and fill nail holes it basically needs 2 coats anyway or the filled holes flash so i gave the spraying of trim up. The contractors in this area are just so cheap.


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

So...if you are going to caulk either way, why would it benefit you to have a caulking that wouldnt yellow? Just trying to figure this one out. Its an interesting discussion.


----------



## slickshift (Apr 8, 2007)

*OT: Sorry I can't help it with these lines but...*



vermontpainter said:


> You might be thinking of the paint before priming or the underwear over whites discussions. Sometimes things get out of sequence.


Well, then there's the VOCs vs. Brain Cells argument
And of course the Age vs. Brain Cells thing
And then there's...uh...the something/something...and something else thing

And then...wait...oooohhhhh look at those pretty lights


----------



## Builtmany (Dec 5, 2009)

I have used Phenoseal on many jobs and don't paint over it. IMO it works great and does not yellow, pick up dirt and holds up pretty well on base and other moldings besides crown. It is fairly easy to gun out but not as easy as standard acrylic caulks. After you get used to it I can assure you the builder will be happy with the results without you painting over it.


----------



## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Are you doing the house in one color, flat on walls and semi on trim? (that is how N/C is done here)


----------



## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> I think we had this discussion a couple of years ago....... :whistling2:


Timhag loves the caulk!


----------



## RPS (May 13, 2010)

Do you have a cutting-in issue? From what I understand you want to use this method so you dont have to cut-in. Caulk before you paint and paint the base last thing. Don tape it just keep it clean and then cut a line to your wall paint. should go pretty quick. Somtimes you have no choice but to follow though on doing the job right even though you tanked on it. a lesson learned but you can walk away proud of your paint job. If this gc dont want to pay for what it takes to do a good job, then you would be better off not working for them. Instead stay home and weed your garden, you can eat that.


----------



## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

this thread will go 5 pages...ugh.

paint over caulk.


----------



## Rob (Aug 9, 2009)

I don't cut in the baseboard the way I do NC, but I've been told I'm bass ackwards!


----------



## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

*OP*

If I were you I would break down the system you use and put it on paper/qb and see what could be done. 
One thing I do to save myself a little time is I spray all my closet walls with the ceiling color. I find a lighter color in the closets is often a benefit. Sometimes I will spray my garage walls like this as well. 

Are you using a pva drywall primer on your walls? 
How many days do you spend in these 3500 sqft jobs?
Are they ranchers or two stories? 

If the contractors are being to cheap you should maybe evaluate if this is NC thing is going to be a viable option for you, or maybe this GC might not be a good fit. Or you should discuss with the builder your contract options, some builders want custom paint jobs for tract houses and unless they are willing to pay for the extras that is not usually a proper fit.
Do you have a contract?


----------



## mblosik (Jan 3, 2009)

NEPS.US said:


> Timhag loves the caulk!


hahaaahahah! reminds me of a customer when i was prepping his chimney when i was 15 years old....i left my caulk gun (the customer pronounced it "c0ck" hanging over the edge of the chimney....he yells up to me, "hey your c0ck is up there." 
"what?"
"your c0ck, it's hanging over the edge of the chimney." now this was the ultimate compliment, especially to a 15 year-old struggling with acne, girls, life, etc. but delusions aside, even with my immature, 15 year-old brain, i knew this was wholly inappropriate both for him to say it and for me to think what he actually said was "c0ck". again i asked, "my what?" (all the time thinking of wayne and garth--a sphincter says what?")
"your c0ck gun, it's hanging over the edge."
I thought, I believe Gene Simmons and Kiss referred to it as "Love Gun." 
however, i only said, "ohhhhhhh, my CAULK gun. Thanks!"
i hope i don't get banned for the story, but it is 100% true. i have witnesses who were pi$$ing their pants while this was going on.:yes:


----------



## Jonesie (Apr 29, 2010)

mblosik said:


> hahaaahahah! reminds me of a customer when i was prepping his chimney when i was 15 years old....i left my caulk gun (the customer pronounced it "c0ck" hanging over the edge of the chimney....he yells up to me, "hey your c0ck is up there."
> "what?"
> "your c0ck, it's hanging over the edge of the chimney." now this was the ultimate compliment, especially to a 15 year-old struggling with acne, girls, life, etc. but delusions aside, even with my immature, 15 year-old brain, i knew this was wholly inappropriate both for him to say it and for me to think what he actually said was "c0ck". again i asked, "my what?" (all the time thinking of wayne and garth--a sphincter says what?")
> "your c0ck gun, it's hanging over the edge."
> ...


 
Why would you get banned? that was one funny a$$ story!


----------



## JHill (May 13, 2010)

UnDeRtOw00 said:


> Hey, I have been doing alot of new construction to fill in the void between good jobs and as we all know there isn't alot of money in it. This is going to sound like im cheaping out on my paintjob but the contractor refuses to pay more and i need a way to make this more profitable. I am really good with a caulking gun and can make caulking the baseboards look just like a good cut line. Wondering if there is an acrylic caulking out there that wont yellow and dries like a semi gloss white paint? This would save me from cutting in along baseboards and make the job worth while. I can't believe im even thinking of doing this as I dont' really beleive in it. Caulk must be painted. BUT, if the contractor refuses to pay more, this would be a great way to make the job profitable. Any suggestions? If there is no product out there such as this, we should all work on creating such a thing so we can sit back and get rich....Wouldn't you use it?


Not that it can't be done, but should'nt. I don't see how it would save time, seems like it would at least double the caulk time, having to make sure all caulk residue is off the walls, to obtain the lines you want. I can see, if it was a crack from the rug stretcher or something small, but an entire houe? I don't see it being cost effective.


----------



## TheRogueBristle (Mar 19, 2010)

I have never seen caulking that dried to a semi-gloss finish. A matching color might be acceptable unpainted in some cases, but it's not something I would do as a matter of practice. Occasionally I will use a sanded caulk that matches the grout color on the top of tile base after painting the walls. 

But why not caulk all trim when you have it out, two coat trim and tape the top of the base? Two coat walls and taping saves some time over cutting, keeps the spatter from getting on the base and allows you to bring the roller stipple right down to it. 

I've also found that you can get away with just one coating caulk without bad sheen difference issues, unlike most nail fillers. This might help you in your case.


----------



## slickshift (Apr 8, 2007)

TheRogueBristle said:


> I have never seen caulking that dried to a semi-gloss finish.


Aye, now there's the rub
Like I posted, "maybe it'll be good enough" for a specific customer

But really...no..for the most part it doesn't cut the mustard
If it did we'd all be all over it like stink on poop


----------



## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

Ya know guys, I think your missing the point here.

Vermont says he wouldn't do it at all,,, I bet he won't pass a 5 dollar bill in the parking lot, look at it and say, "If they want me to pick it up, they better drop a 100 dollar bill, who do they think I am???"

The GC wants it cheap, GIVE IT TO EM, if you don't I will !!!

If a custom is going for $3 and the GC wants $1.25 then you gotta cut something,,,????? 

IF you tell em right off the git go, then you are NOT cheating him,,, he is ASKING for a LESS than quality job for a cheaper price.

It all comes down to selling a service. And in those situations, I caulk WIDE and then cut in fast, letting the caulk define the cut line. Is that the right way, heck no, but it makes the cheap GC happy and I make just as much per day as I do on a custom. One coat of paint, no primer.

Ya see, GC's on NC spec homes, could care less, they are only interested in the bottom line and ONE YEAR of warranty.

Like i said, if you won't do it, I will,,, might have something to do with my rep as a hack,,, ya think???


----------



## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

*Capt*

That works if that is the way the GC is thinking but some of them want the full package deal for that 1.25 and those are the ones that I have to walk from. 


I was kind of heading that way but the OP kind of ignored a few of my questions. Nothing wrong with that but there is only so much input I can add like that.


----------



## Metro M & L (Jul 21, 2009)

I could have cut in the house in the time it took me to read this thread. Should have stayed in school; I'd have been a bedder reader and a worser painter.


----------



## slickshift (Apr 8, 2007)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Ya know guys, I think your missing the point here...
> The GC wants it cheap, GIVE IT TO EM, if you don't I will !!!
> 
> If a custom is going for $3 and the GC wants $1.25 then you gotta cut something,,,?????


No offense, but I think _you _might be missing the point
If my Biz needs 2.75 to cover and actually have profit (not a dirty word btw), then that is that
I can go broke with a hell of a lot less work watching the cartoon network



IF you tell em right off the git go, then you are NOT cheating him.. he is ASKING for a LESS than quality job for a cheaper price.

It all comes down to selling a service. And in those situations, I caulk WIDE and then cut in fast, letting the caulk define the cut line. Is that the right way, heck no, but it makes the cheap GC happy and I make just as much per day as I do on a custom. One coat of paint, no primer.

Ya see, GC's on NC spec homes, could care less, they are only interested in the bottom line and ONE YEAR of warranty.

Like i said, if you won't do it, I will... might have something to do with my rep as a hack... ya think???[/quote]


----------



## TheRogueBristle (Mar 19, 2010)

I hear ya Rock that sometime providing the utmost of quality is not always called for and sometimes even "specified". Nothing wrong with doing the job to the expectations of the HO/contractor. But in this case I just don't get it. Caulking the tops of baseboards has always been one of the fastest parts of the whole caulking process. 

An no offense, but I have no idea what this means:



> ...in those situations, I caulk WIDE and then cut in fast, letting the caulk define the cut line.


----------



## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

all that fancy prepwork sucks up to much time. huge cash leak.


----------



## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

Workaholic said:


> That works if that is the way the GC is thinking but some of them want the full package deal for that 1.25 and those are the ones that I have to walk from.
> 
> 
> I was kind of heading that way but the OP kind of ignored a few of my questions. Nothing wrong with that but there is only so much input I can add like that.


I understand Work, you have a rep to protect,, i don't,,,,LOL


----------



## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I understand Work, you have a rep to protect,, i don't,,,,LOL


lol, my rep around here went to pot some time ago.


----------



## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

TheRogueBristle said:


> I hear ya Rock that sometime providing the utmost of quality is not always called for and sometimes even "specified". Nothing wrong with doing the job to the expectations of the HO/contractor. But in this case I just don't get it. Caulking the tops of baseboards has always been one of the fastest parts of the whole caulking process.
> 
> An no offense, but I have no idea what this means:


I may be setting myself up here, but I'll answer that question, caulking wide means cutting a big hole in the tube, caulking and then the wipe down runs the caulk ON the wall, leaveing a clean clear line, as if it was "cut-on". Therfore allowing you to "cut in" with a 3" purdy at full speed, cause you ain't cutting in, your just no over running your caulk line. Its fast and effective, and will get you past the one year warranty,,, and as I said, IF the GC is okay with it, I will give it to em,,, however, If they want it done right, then of course, we are talking about a differant deal alltogether.


----------



## TheRogueBristle (Mar 19, 2010)

Ok, I thought I had a sense what you were driving at. And I always consider it a privilege to have a customer that will allow you the time to do all the steps you feel necessary, but unfortunately in these difficult economic times they are fewer and fewer. I personally got a little spoiled for w few years there with the clientele.


----------



## friskypainter (Mar 12, 2010)

Yes, it does work I have done it, and left it, or forgot or something and nobody was for the worse. Problem is unpainted caulk can pick up embedded dust & dirt. NOW IF SOME MANUFACTURER OUT THERE INVENTS A SEMI-GLOSS OR SATIN DRYING CAULK, then we have a BRILLIANT NEW CONCEPT AND IDEA WHOSE TIME HAS COME!!!!! Somebody please do a caulk sheen comparison. I am way too crazy busy...

frisky


----------



## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

friskypainter said:


> Yes, it does work I have done it, and left it, or forgot or something and nobody was for the worse. Problem is unpainted caulk can pick up embedded dust & dirt. NOW IF SOME MANUFACTURER OUT THERE INVENTS A SEMI-GLOSS OR SATIN DRYING CAULK, then we have a BRILLIANT NEW CONCEPT AND IDEA WHOSE TIME HAS COME!!!!! Somebody please do a caulk sheen comparison. I am way too crazy busy...
> 
> frisky


What's going on Frisky? Who let you out of the local HD on a weeknight? :jester:


----------



## AztecPainting (Jan 28, 2010)

UnDeRtOw00 said:


> Hey, I have been doing alot of new construction to fill in the void between good jobs and as we all know there isn't alot of money in it. This is going to sound like im cheaping out on my paintjob but the contractor refuses to pay more and i need a way to make this more profitable. I am really good with a caulking gun and can make caulking the baseboards look just like a good cut line. Wondering if there is an acrylic caulking out there that wont yellow and dries like a semi gloss white paint? This would save me from cutting in along baseboards and make the job worth while. I can't believe im even thinking of doing this as I dont' really beleive in it. Caulk must be painted. BUT, if the contractor refuses to pay more, this would be a great way to make the job profitable. Any suggestions? If there is no product out there such as this, we should all work on creating such a thing so we can sit back and get rich....Wouldn't you use it?


I've been reading this thread for awhile, I do a lot of new construction and I deal with GC's all the time, way too much for my liking, but, I do have solutions for those cheap f..ers, that doesn't mean that you have to do short cuts but that means using cheaper materials, for example, you can see guys doing only one coat of tinted primer and one coat of finish paint, well, I don't do that at all, but I still use tinted primer, first coat with the cheapest and probably flat paint, whatever paint they gonna discontinue and is cheapest and then my finish with premium paint, got it? all of this with cheapest products except for finish coat that way it doesn't compromise quality, well you have quality paint for finish that's it, I don't know which paint store you use but in here you can get the caulking brand from the store and its way cheaper and it does the same job, you should never care about GC's, they don't care they just want their money and you too, ok, as simple as that. you don't have to use expensive products to deliver a nice finish, just keep doing what you have been doing all this time but now use more affordable paint plus you have to push your paint rep to give you a better deal on paint, discounts that big franchises would have or commercial companies would have, if you don't have this good deals with paint stores just b..tch about it with your paint rep, same way contractors do to you, thats the way it works, that is the only way you can be competitive, believe me, paint stores will give you anything you want as long as you keep buying from them if not, move on, too bad, someone else will get your business, trust me, it's been working for me, talk to your reps about better discounts, let them know you have not time for BS and you need better prices right now. Simple... Be a business man talk for your business thats it...


----------



## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

AztecPainting said:


> I've been reading this thread for awhile, I do a lot of new construction and I deal with GC's all the time, way too much for my liking, but, I do have solutions for those cheap f..ers, that doesn't mean that you have to do short cuts but that means using cheaper materials, for example, you can see guys doing only one coat of tinted primer and one coat of finish paint, well, I don't do that at all, but I still use tinted primer, first coat with the cheapest and probably flat paint, whatever paint they gonna discontinue and is cheapest and then my finish with premium paint, got it? all of this with cheapest products except for finish coat that way it doesn't compromise quality, well you have quality paint for finish that's it, I don't know which paint store you use but in here you can get the caulking brand from the store and its way cheaper and it does the same job, you should never care about GC's, they don't care they just want their money and you too, ok, as simple as that. you don't have to use expensive products to deliver a nice finish, just keep doing what you have been doing all this time but now use more affordable paint plus you have to push your paint rep to give you a better deal on paint, discounts that big franchises would have or commercial companies would have, if you don't have this good deals with paint stores just b..tch about it with your paint rep, same way contractors do to you, thats the way it works, that is the only way you can be competitive, believe me, paint stores will give you anything you want as long as you keep buying from them if not, move on, too bad, someone else will get your business, trust me, it's been working for me, talk to your reps about better discounts, let them know you have not time for BS and you need better prices right now. Simple... Be a business man talk for your business thats it...


I deal mainly with GC's, personally I HATE re-paints. Now try to remember, I live in the south and prices here are low, did i say low??? I mean really LOW. Most new construction houses under 2000 sq/ft go for $1.35. For that they get one coat of paint sprayed (no primer,but we spray the trim also, priming that), back-rolled and shield-ed twice(thats the cut-in). I prefer to spray my trim, but at this price, forget that. I caulk it wide, and then just brush one coat of semi-gloss or high-gloss on the trim and thats it. I can turn a 2000 sq/ft house in 5 days by myself. 

Like i said, If your walking across a parking lot and see a $5.oo bill on the ground,,, do YOU pass it up cause "It ain't worth picking it up???"


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Like i said, If your walking across a parking lot and see a $5.oo bill on the ground,,, do YOU pass it up cause "It ain't worth picking it up???"


Cap'n

Your analogy would be spot on, if...jobs were actually similar to free money.


----------



## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> Cap'n
> 
> Your analogy would be spot on, if...jobs were actually similar to free money.


I beg to differ,,, As a drywaller when I walk into a house i SEE a stack of $10.00 bills leaning against the wall. 

If you saw it that way, how many would you pick up before you left for home???

Oh BTW, we were watching tv last night and the little dawg was laying on the floor licking his arse. The Ole lady said "why's he doing that" I told her,,, well he bit a painter last week,,,,, and he still ain't got the taste out of his mouth".

Now thats funny, I don't care who you are,,,,, lol


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> I beg to differ,,, As a drywaller when I walk into a house i SEE a stack of $10.00 bills leaning against the wall.
> 
> If you saw it that way, how many would you pick up before you left for home???


If I had any inkling that it was going to cost $10 to pick each one up, I probably wouldnt touch them. I'm sure you have that all figured out by now.


----------



## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> If I had any inkling that it was going to cost $10 to pick each one up, I probably wouldnt touch them. I'm sure you have that all figured out by now.


Not sure if I do, I can hang 60 to 70 per day by myself, with a panel-lifter. On the other hand, I was finishing a house this week, and the painter came over, from the house next door, that I had finished the week before and asked me to come "point up" a bad spot. It was a 2 ft long scratch that was left by a sanding pole. It took like 2 seconds to point it up. It took him like 15 minutes to come over and explain to me that he COULD NOT AFFORD to do point up. 

I swear, I will never understand that PROFESSIONALL attitude.


----------



## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

UnDeRtOw00 said:


> THanks for the caulky attitude!
> 
> Been doing this a over 25 years..dont' need anyone to tell me how to paint scott. I have never considered anything like this before and my paint job for NC is above and beyond. I always caulk all trim before painting but recently considered it only on baseboards. All other companies in my area do things like tinting primer so they get away with one coat one finish. I do everything properly but thought this would be ok since my overall paintjob for nc is above average. That is only if there was such a product that didn't yellow and dried with a semi gloss finish. Thanks for your thoughts anyway!
> 
> Oh, and at one time painters used to paint homes with only jumbo brushes...then they came up with a roller... New products are made everyday. Just because we have done things the way we have all these years doesn't mean there wont oneday be a new way...sorry for asking such a dumb question i guess.


It doesn't matter how many years experiance someone has, it's how many years they have been doing it right, or doing it wrong. he answered your question. Prime, caulk, finish. PERIOD!


----------

