# what direction to roll ceiling??



## newbie painter (Feb 21, 2015)

I have a fairly large ceiling to paint that is approximately 30 ft x 17 ft. There is a large window at the end of the room (along the 17 ft wall), so lots of natural light coming in. The ceiling is smooth and has been primed. The clients wants it painted semi gloss. I will be painting it with a roller, but trying to eliminate / reduce roll marks.

I would like to get opinions / advice / experience on painting large ceilings with a roller.


Do you roll away from the window and along the 30 foot wall? If so, why?
Do you roll the shortest distance along the 17ft wall? If so, why?
Does one way reduce roll marks?

Given the large area, I am thinking about using BM Advance or Behr Alkyd Semi Gloss Enamel (both hybrids) for longer working times. I can't get actual oil paint in my local area.

Any suggestions would be helpful. Thanks


----------



## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Think about this for a second. Do you want to try to keep a wet edge across a 30' span or a 17' span?


----------



## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Roll 1 coat (30') in one direction roll the 2nd coat (17') the other. Or vise versa.


----------



## GR8painter (Dec 18, 2014)

Semi gloss on a smooth ceiling with a lot of natural light will show every imperfection and lap mark, but if thats what your customer wants...
rolling the long way will have less laps, you could second coats the opposite direction. I would really be spraying that but its probably not possible. BM waterborn ceiling paint has longer hold time and was made for that purpose, its also superflat, but your customer wants shiny, good luck with that.


----------



## PremierPaintingMa (Nov 30, 2014)

I would do as cdpainting said, I would highly recommend you to use BM microfiber 5/16 roller on that ceiling it doesn't make a lap marks. Spraying would be best.


----------



## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Semi gloss+ drywall+ critical lighting = possible frustration. To increase your odds of success, I would prime it again with 046, then spray and back roll (two person job). Spray it on heavy and have your helper follow close behind rolling it out the window. Finally, blame any visible imperfections and lap marks on shadows and drywallers.


----------



## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

Make sure you understand your customers expectations. Will they be ok if there ARE slight laps? If not, maybe roll isn't the ideal application method.


----------



## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

i would have a serious talk with the homeowner about using Semi Gloss 

why are they using SG ?

how much painting experience do you have?

just trying to understand so we can be of better help


----------



## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Although spraying would likely eliminate the problem of roller marks, I was taught to roll perpendicular from the direction of incoming light. However, in the description provided by the OP, the glare from the window is directed towards the width and not the length. Typically, roller marks are more visible when viewing them in the same direction as the glare. But that applies more to windows located at either end of a rooms length.

I would roll the seventeen foot width rather then the thirty foot length for the reason's Bender explained.


----------



## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Semi gloss on a big ceiling with critical light. I'd roll down the road in my van to a customer I'd have a chance of pleasing. :yes:


----------



## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

If they're set on semi-gloss and you have to roll only, here's what we do:

Cool it down. Cooler temps mean longer open time. The last thing you want is a toasty room with lots of air movement. 60 F sems like a good temp.

As Bender pointed out, it's easier to keep a 17- foot wet edge than a 30- footer.

We'd make passes about 3-5 feet wide, working across the 17-foot width, rolling in the direction of 30-foot length, "feathering onto the wet". 

Don't be miserly with the paint.

Have the whole room dropped and ready to roll so you don't have to stop and shuffle drops, move furniture, etc.


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

I would talk to them about the serious appearance problems with using a sg on a ceiling like that. 

I would get a sg oil/alkyd. SW has it in the promar line. I would also use a extender to increase open time. Or I would consider all surface enamel alkyd in SATIN.


----------



## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Given the open time of the product choice, keeping the room temps and turbulence low, allowing no obstructions, and following general application methods for keeping a wet edge, including roller choice, this ceiling is a walk in the park.


----------



## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

TJ Paint said:


> I would talk to them about the serious appearance problems with using a sg on a ceiling like that.
> 
> I would get a sg oil/alkyd. SW has it in the promar line. I would also use a extender to increase open time.


TJ,

By the time you brought the poor women around to the reality of her ignorance, and the subsequent grief and self loathing induced by your honest assessment, I could have rolled that ceiling out, had time to chat with the Misses over coffee and home made cookies, and still applied a coat of flat ceiling paint if the semi gloss didn't work out.


----------



## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

Newbie, if you have to ask all these questions about rolling a ceiling, you have a long way to go before you reach a truly PROFESSIONAL level of painting. Just sayin'


----------



## Clearlycut (Dec 1, 2013)

I think this could be easier than you think. Just roll parallel with the window where light is coming in (obviously) use an 18 inch roller.i think hybrid was an excellent choice. I also think you can accomplish this with reg semi is well. And whoever mentioned keeping the room cool. Thumbs up. Roll quick and nice heavy coats. I would dip after every pass. Good luck.

Other option. Bag it ,shoot it. Done deal. 

Sent from my SM-G900P using PaintTalk.com mobile app


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

CApainter said:


> TJ,
> 
> By the time you brought the poor women around to the reality of her ignorance, and the subsequent grief and self loathing induced by your honest assessment, I could have rolled that ceiling out, had time to chat with the Misses over coffee and home made cookies, and still applied a coat of flat ceiling paint if the semi gloss didn't work out.


What about the 2nd coat? That's going to be a long chat... 

See, what happened was the initial battle of psy-warfare was lost at the initial walkthru/consultation. 

The trick is to make them feel as though the smart choice was theirs to make. That way, they are not made aware of their ignorance, nor will there be self-loathing. Instead, a joyeous disposition will materialize.

Edit: Good luck creating an uninhibited work area in a space like that, or convincing her to drop the temp to 60. Even if you do, it will take a couple hours for that, and heat rises...

Edit 2.0: I actually just rolled out a (30x17)×2 lid. NC. She wanted emerald matte. I promptly talked her into making a smarter choice going with primer and one coat of flat finish. Was it my trustworthy, self-assured charm? Was it the audible rundown of the balance sheet comparison coupled with my best estimate of the inevitable aesthetic disparity?


----------



## putlotson (Feb 22, 2012)

*First off I give you credit for asking for advice here. That's a sign you are on the right track! *The information you give could be better though. Most of the ceilings in my area are textured. That is important to know. Also it's important to know if a textured ceiling has ever been painted and sealed off before. 

*If it is a "virgin" or never before sealed ceiling* you could run into big problems particularly if you roll it and the ceiling texture is old. Here are my general "rules of thumb". Sometimes there are other circumstances like cost and amount of light which can vary these. Both methods assume you are doing 2 coats.

*SMOOTH CEILING*: 1. Roll or spray the first coat against the light. (17" wall) 2. Roll or spray the second coat with the light (30" wall). spraying is ALWAYS better when possible and cost efficient. You don't need to seal (prime) a smooth painted ceiling.

*TEXTURED CEILING*: It is ALWAYS better to spray if practical and cost effective. 

*IF ROLLING* . If you are rolling and the ceiling is virgin ALWAYS seal it with an alkyd primer sealer like Inslx PrimeLok or Zinsser Coverstain. I like PrimeLok because it's pure white. I would go against the light (follow the 17' wall). If you don't seal it off with alkyd and too much moisture builds up in the texture before your final coat you may be on the phone to a drywaller to have the ceiling retextured. After that, if it is an economy job, you may be able to just do one finish coat with the light following the 30' wall. Always check important ceilings with a 300 watt or equivalent light bulb shining up so that you can see defects and fix them before you start. It will also help you see lap marks. Finish with one coat of ceiling paint with the light (30' wall) On a high quality job I would do 2 finish coats, the 1st against the light and the 2nd with the light.

*IF SPRAYING*: If the ceiling has been painted before I just spray it 2 coats the 1st against the light and the 2nd with the light. If the ceiling is "virgin" I chech the texture for hardness and to see if there are crumbling areas like those you find around hot lights. If the texture is soft or baked I spray it with a fast drying alkyd primer/sealer. If the texture is sound I don't seal it. I use a fast drying flat ceiling paint like Benjamin Moore Gennex and spray the first coat against the light with a thin but fully covering film. I use a 513 or a 515 tip depending on how fast I feel like running. Don't forget to mask those fire sprinklers! ;>) Then you wait. Then you WAIT. If you don't wait long enough to spray the second coat and you haven't sealed it with alkyd you may saturate the ceiling. It's natural to want to finish as spraying the second coat is easy but if it's raining or cool or there is no venting you may end up saturating the ceiling so wait before you spray the final coat with the light.

*SEMI GLOSS vs FLAT*. We all know it is hard to back peddle once you've told your client something. Experience will prevent that. In this case I sense you could have nipped the SG idea in the bud. I would still reverse that choice. Just say "on second thought it will turn out better if I use a good quality flat" and go with flat. Unless you are spraying a kitchen in an Italian restaurant always use the flattest quality ceiling paint you can get. I usually use Benjamin Moore Gennex but you have to put it on fairly thin or you will get cracks in the paint. I use it because once you get used to it you can eliminate lap marks when you're rolling. It's about $40 gallon so if the job doesn't warrant that expense I use something else.

If you are painting a textured ceiling that has never been painted your theory about using semi gloss to keep a longer wet edge is bass-ackwards. Keeping an absorbant ceiling wet for any length of time can spell disaster. You want to seal it so the top coats stay on the surface. They will cover better and not soften the texture. 
At the end always check your ceilings for misses or laps with portable lights if you want to leave a great job behind that will look solid in the in the blazing summer sunlight. *Then you get on your horse (or Graco hi-boy) and ride off into the sunset.....*


----------



## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

That was like having a canister of smoke go off in a small room:blink:


----------



## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

TJ Paint said:


> What about the 2nd coat? That's going to be a long chat...
> 
> See, what happened was the initial battle of psy-warfare was lost at the initial walkthru/consultation.
> 
> ...


****


----------



## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Who would have thought the subject of rolling direction could produce such an existential level of awareness.

This thread has the potential to reach dual digits.


----------



## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

CApainter said:


> Who would have thought the subject of rolling direction could produce such an existential level of awareness.
> 
> This thread has the potential to reach dual digits.


Cover plates and knobbers tho. Lest we forget those impassioned threads.


----------



## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

TJ Paint said:


> What about the 2nd coat? That's going to be a long chat...
> 
> See, what happened was the initial battle of psy-warfare was lost at the initial walkthru/consultation.
> 
> ...



If you can't clear the room out, go with narrow rows of furniture across the 17-foot width or pushed up against the wall, whatever lets you work in a methodical pattern.

I've gotten pretty obnoxious about having some control of the temperature. It's tough with older clients, who like to match the temperature in Fahrenheit to their age in years. 

PS. Heat doesn't rise. It moves from hot to cold....always.

Hot air, on the other hand:whistling2:


----------



## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Gough said:


> I've gotten pretty obnoxious about having some control of the temperature. It's tough with older clients, who like to match the temperature in Fahrenheit to their age in years.


My favourite is showing up at someone's house to paint and they've just loaded their massive woodstove as they're leaving for work.

"Wanted to make sure you stayed warm while you're working. Have a great day! See ya!"

You're sweating before you've even brought your dropsheets in. Thanks for that. I usually just shrug and leave.


----------



## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Wildbill7145 said:


> My favourite is showing up at someone's house to paint and they've just loaded their massive woodstove as they're leaving for work.
> 
> "Wanted to make sure you stayed warm while you're working. Have a great day! See ya!"
> 
> You're sweating before you've even brought your dropsheets in. Thanks for that. I usually just shrug and leave.


Especially if you need to mask off things...like the woodstove.


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Gough said:


> If you can't clear the room out, go with narrow rows of furniture across the 17-foot width or pushed up against the wall, whatever lets you work in a methodical pattern.
> 
> I've gotten pretty obnoxious about having some control of the temperature. It's tough with older clients, who like to match the temperature in Fahrenheit to their age in years.
> 
> ...


Yeah this basement finishing project has been enjoyable in part from the lower temps due to the uncarpeted concrete floors and limited heat devoted to the unfinished space. It will be nice for painting the trim having a bit more open time, and helped with the ceilings. 
Although caulking corners, due to the poor quality taping from the drywallers, posed complications from the very slow dry times. 

In order to proceed on schedule, I had to caulk direct to unprimed trim on friday, to ensure it was cured tomorrow. I didn't like it, but the carpet is coming. I did use a high-quality caulk at least.
I have used the quick cure caulk in the past, but I never felt like it will hold up long term.


----------



## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

We do finish spraying perpendicular to the primary entry direction. For rolling I'd figure the same. 

Really worried about it? Add an extender, flotrol or xim, and be done worrying about it. It'll all level out at the end with that stuff.


----------



## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

I wouldn't even wory about a wet edge. I put the lap Mark on the drywall seem is all. Four foot strips. Lay it out like it was carpet,
Ur gonna see the sheets the laps and roller marks no matter what you do, make it easy on urself. Put ur seam on the drywall seem. Nice and square.


----------



## newbie painter (Feb 21, 2015)

*rolling a ceiling*

Thanks for all the advice, experience and suggestions. 

As an aside, I know semi gloss is not the best for a flat ceiling. But some cultures seem to like this...and this person wants semi gloss in every *&^% room! (walls, closets, ceilings, trim, etc) Looks pretty ugly. As I work for a restoration company, I have no choice but to follow the customer's direction, albeit with warnings to the customer that he will see every blemish. 

Thanks guys....you were amazing with your quick responses. 

Interesting to note how many approaches to paint a ceiling.


----------



## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

newbie painter said:


> Thanks for all the advice, experience and suggestions.
> 
> As an aside, I know semi gloss is not the best for a flat ceiling. But some cultures seem to like this...and this person wants semi gloss in every *&^% room! (walls, closets, ceilings, trim, etc) Looks pretty ugly. As I work for a restoration company, I have no choice but to follow the customer's direction, albeit with warnings to the customer that he will see every blemish.
> 
> ...


If you had to pay for the feedback, who would you choose? And don't be swayed, by funny and unique replies that provided substance without being plain and un-interesting.


----------



## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

CApainter said:


> Who would have thought the subject of rolling direction could produce such an existential level of awareness.
> 
> This thread has the potential to reach dual digits.


TEAMWORK: Because none of us, is as dumb as all of us.


----------



## Krittterkare (Jul 12, 2013)

I will agree with woodcoyote about floetrol, any time I do kitchen ceilings I thin with water and floetrol especially when using a thick semigloss and it should remain wet long enough and flatten out just fine, as mentioned an 18" roller or even two people working together to keep moving and not overworking the paint but I think having it thin enough is the key.


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

please post pics when finished.


----------



## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

epretot said:


> TEAMWORK: Because none of us, is as dumb as all of us.


I thought that was meetings.

On a Sunday afternoon in February, doesn't this one seem more like PT?


----------



## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

I stand corrected.


----------



## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Haven't we been working, striving all these years for a chance to whip a ceiling like this with no pecker tracks? To prove that we are truly worth what we are paid?
It doesn't seem like all that great of a challenge. I would be mad if my 2 year guy couldn't hack it but if my journeymen F'ed it up they would be eating government cheese Monday morning.


----------



## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

epretot said:


> I stand corrected.


No worries, E. I would have sworn it was Teamwork as well. Only when I went to attach a photo did I learn otherwise.


----------



## Jazz_Painter (Feb 22, 2015)

When you spray ceilings do you use an airless or air assisted sprayer? I would love to go air assisted but the tool is 3 times as expensive as a good airless. Does it make a good job on the ceilings with an airless, especially using semi gloss??


----------



## TKbrush (Dec 30, 2014)

The few times ive had folks with semi gloss ceilings and wanting semi again. I just talk about the light issues and esthetics of regular ceiling paint. If they have semi on ceilings for cleaning them, i ask how often do they wipe the ceilings...everybody has been happy with regular ceiling paint, that ive worked for. 
I think the semi gloss on ceilings is a homeowner thing, where they have painted walls and ceilings same color and just were not aware of sheen differences.


----------



## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

Gough said:


> No worries, E. I would have sworn it was Teamwork as well. Only when I went to attach a photo did I learn otherwise.


I realized over the last two weeks, I don't remember some things correctly.

I'm going to assume this condition corrects with age.


----------



## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

epretot said:


> I realized over the last two weeks, I don't remember some things correctly.
> 
> I'm going to assume this condition corrects with age.


In a way, it does.


I rarely remember things incorrectly these days. Mostly, I don't remember them at all.


----------



## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

"It's not that I can't remember what I've forgotten, it's just I forgot to remember"

-????


----------



## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

One of my dad's favorites: "I distinctly remember forgetting this."


----------

