# Solvent pop on cabinets.



## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

Are we looking at solvent pop here? I'm using scuff x over smart prime with a 310 fftp. The day of the top coat I did one coat around 11 a.m. and another coat around 3 pm (scuff-x calls for a 2 to 3 hour recoat time) but it appears in this instance it was too soon. I'm working in a garage that's roughly 65°. 

I came back on Monday and saw these small but visible craters. So I sand it down smooth, where the was still some of the first top coat on. Re-coated and the craters are still coming through. I think the next move is going to be taking the finish down to either the primer or all the way to bare wood, unless someone else has a better solution? Luckily it's mostly on the flats o I don't think I have to sand all the grooves.

Any advice is appreciated! You have to zoom in a bit on the pictures to see the craters. They're not even visible face on but very visible from the side.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Yes looks like solvent entrapment


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

Interestingly, it looks like if I sand down smooth and hit it with primer instead of a top coat it seems to seal the problem in. Out of an abundance of caution I'm taking all the flats to a feathered combination of primer and bare wood.

Edit: the primer actually doesn't seal it in, looks like it has to come all the way down to the prime coat, but at that point I had to just take it all the bare wood, because otherwise I would have a patchwork of smooth and open grained areas.


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## Crazy4paint (Dec 7, 2021)

Sorry you're having to deal with this, what a pain.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Youch! How long after primer? Did you sand between coats? 65 degs. should be fine.. Depends how thick the first coat was I suppose..  Sure its not just fisheye contamination or from applying too thick. I hate it when that happens! Humidity over here on the East Coast is really low right now..and cold.


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

Crazy4paint said:


> Sorry you're having to deal with this, what a pain.


Appreciate that, yeah not my ideal day!


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Youch! How long after primer? Did you sand between coats? 65 degs. should be fine.. Depends how thick the first coat was I suppose..  Sure its not just fisheye contamination or from applying too thick. I hate it when that happens! Humidity over here on the East Coast is really low right now..and cold.


Top coat started the day after primer. I didn't sand between top coats. I don't believe it was from applying it too thick, but I haven't ruled out that completely. The one good thing is the panels were raised so there was no corners we had to worry about when taking it down to bare wood.


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

We took around 30 of them down to bare wood on the raised sections. Lots of quality time with the orbitals for me and my helper. Luckily there was 102 doors in this job, and the first 75 went great so losing a couple days isn't as rough as it normally would be.

Also the homeowners are gone, makes stuff like this a little easier. Never fun troubleshooting a problem and trying to explain it to the homeowner at the same time.


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## Sn0man (Sep 15, 2017)

fromthenorthwest said:


> Interestingly, it looks like if I sand down smooth and hit it with primer instead of a top coat it seems to seal the problem in. Out of an abundance of caution I'm taking all the flats to a feathered combination of primer and bare wood.
> 
> Edit: the primer actually doesn't seal it in, looks like it has to come all the way down to the prime coat, but at that point I had to just take it all the bare wood, because otherwise I would have a patchwork of smooth and open grained areas.


If it's all the way down to the primer it's more likely a contamination problem. Those bubbles are a little too big to be solvent pop, but smaller than most fisheye I've seen. 

The 2-3 hour recoat is based on a 77 degree room/surface temperature according to the TDS, so it is possible that the coating wasn't completely ready for a topcoat.


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

Sn0man said:


> If it's all the way down to the primer it's more likely a contamination problem. Those bubbles are a little too big to be solvent pop, but smaller than most fisheye I've seen.
> 
> The 2-3 hour recoat is based on a 77 degree room/surface temperature according to the TDS, so it is possible that the coating wasn't completely ready for a topcoat.


So actually the primer coat was fine. It's just that in order to get the entirety of the top coat off, it was inevitable that some areas of the primer would be removed, so then there was a patchwork of primer and bare wood. Recoating this surface resulted in a patchwork finish, where you can see wood grain in areas but it was totally smooth and other areas where there was till primer. That's why I ended up having to just remove all of the primer to start with a clean slate of bare wood.

Needless to say it was a huge hassle, but certainly not the first!


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

fromthenorthwest said:


> So actually the primer coat was fine. It's just that in order to get the entirety of the top coat off, it was inevitable that some areas of the primer would be removed, so then there was a patchwork of primer and bare wood. Recoating this surface resulted in a patchwork finish, where you can see wood grain in areas but it was totally smooth and other areas where there was till primer. That's why I ended up having to just remove all of the primer to start with a clean slate of bare wood.
> 
> Needless to say it was a huge hassle, but certainly not the first!


Well, that's one way to fill the grain!

BTW - I used those orange clips for the first time yesterday. They worked great!


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

Holland said:


> Well, that's one way to fill the grain!
> 
> BTW - I used those orange clips for the first time yesterday. They worked great!


Haha right? Just some good practice for my new method. Ya I agree those clips are pretty sweet. The whole erecta rack system has been working out real nice, glad ya told me about em!


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## Crazy4paint (Dec 7, 2021)

New method LOL


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Were you using your new festool?


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Were you using your new festool?


I haven't sprung for the Festool yet actually... sure would have ended up being handy on this job though. I sprung for a portable spray booth with a blower exhaust from Paint Line...ever seen those? Since I don't have a shop it will be a nice upgrade from my zipwall and 12 foot plastic setup in the garages of my customers.. Festool's next on my list of bigger ticket tools.


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

I seem to be getting this solvent pop return, even on doors that I've sanded down to bare wood. Anyone experience anything similar?

I'm using the same exact process that I did on the previous 70 or so doors, even the backsides of these doors looks fine, it's just the fronts where the problem started, and even taking them down to bare wood and re-doing the whole finishing process doesn't seem to be fixing it. Im about to throw these things in the fire


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

fromthenorthwest said:


> I seem to be getting this solvent pop return, even on doors that I've sanded down to bare wood. Anyone experience anything similar?
> 
> I'm using the same exact process that I did on the previous 70 or so doors, even the backsides of these doors looks fine, it's just the fronts where the problem started, and even taking them down to bare wood and re-doing the whole finishing process doesn't seem to be fixing it. Im about to throw these things in the fire
> View attachment 113237
> View attachment 113237


have you tried just doing another coat on top of that?


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

fromthenorthwest said:


> I seem to be getting this solvent pop return, even on doors that I've sanded down to bare wood. Anyone experience anything similar?
> 
> I'm using the same exact process that I did on the previous 70 or so doors, even the backsides of these doors looks fine, it's just the fronts where the problem started, and even taking them down to bare wood and re-doing the whole finishing process doesn't seem to be fixing it. Im about to throw these things in the fire
> View attachment 113237
> View attachment 113237


Are you using the same paint as before? Bad gallon? What's the humidity right now where your spraying? I had a post on this problem a couple years back. The general consensus was low humidity (Dry) and agitation of the paint just prior to spraying.. AKA micro bubbles. Maybe try adding some paint conditioner, or a new gallon of paint. Are you using the same sprayer for both primer and topcoat?


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

Holland said:


> have you tried just doing another coat on top of that?


I actually don't know if I have. I have sanded the pits out and re-coated, and that failed. I then sanded the pits out, primed, and then re-coated and that failed. I have now sanded down to bare wood around 30 doors. But actually just re-coating over it without sanding I don't think I have tried. That might be worth a look tomorrow.

The problem has definitely improved, but I'm still getting these pits in enough areas that it will probably be borderline passable, but I really don't like doing borderline work.

Some of the pits actually seem to be shaped in the pattern of the wood grains. Areas that are a bit higher, maybe more contact with the sander? Maybe I need to do some more research on sandpaper contamination. I do remember reading some threads on here about that with the (stearated?) paper. But all the flats were sanded to bare wood so I would think they would have all had contact with the paper.


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Are you using the same paint as before? Bad gallon? What's the humidity right now where your spraying? I had a post on this p roblem a couple years back. The general consensus was low humidity (Dry) and agitation of the paint just prior to spraying.. AKA micro bubbles. Maybe try adding some paint conditioner, or a new gallon of paint. Are you using the same sprayer for both primer and topcoat?


I'm using the same paint. There is a chance it could be a bad gallon, I'm not sure where one gallon quit and another one started in the pump as I've been running 2 or 3 at a time out of a 5.

I don't know what the humidity is, that's something I should probably start paying a lot more attention to. Some of those things I don't start to think about until I have problems. 

I have been using this pump in primer as well as top coat, but it hasn't caused any problems up to this point. I've got the max amount of extender in there already, which has been fine throughout the whole job. One thing I am going to do is get a fresh gallon tomorrow, clean out the pump and see if that makes a difference.

Agitation could be an issue that I haven't been paying attention to. I know I certainly don't perform as well when agitated.

Thanks for the food for thought. I've got about six or seven doors with different 'fixes' labeled, and I'm hoping one or two of them looks good tomorrow.


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## Alex451 (Feb 10, 2021)

Wow 102 cabinet doors? Thats a big one.

How come you dont sand between top coats?


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

Alex451 said:


> Wow 102 cabinet doors? Thats a big one.
> 
> How come you dont sand between top coats?


Given the problems with this last batch thank goodness there's 100 or I'd be working for free😅 

If my first top coat is smooth I don't usually sand in between.


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