# Smokers' house dilemma



## iPaint (Nov 30, 2007)

I'm doing the estimate on my first interior where the people are smokers. They want their ceiling and walls painted.

They have a knockdown ceiling that's never been painted that also has some fireplace smoke stains. The walls don't have any really noticeable stains, but I just want good adhesion to the existing paint. In either case, I don't care about blocking smells because they'll just smell bad again in no time.

Here's the advice I've been given on how to tackle this:

Regarding knockdown ceiling:
Source 1 - Just use alkyd paint. That will get rid of all the stains, no problem, and the ceilings will be pure white.
Source 2 - If you follow Source 1's advice, the stains will bleed through in six months. Use a stain-blocking primer (oil or latex) then an alkyd top coat.

Regarding the walls:
Source 1 - Use a stain-blocking primer (didn't specify latex or alkyd), then apply your top-coat.
Source 2 - Forget the primer! Just wash the walls well then apply your top coats.

So at the risk of me getting even more confused, what advice would YOU suggest for each situation?


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## Roadog (Apr 18, 2007)

RUN. Fast. LOL... BIN the whole place and paint.


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## iPaint (Nov 30, 2007)

I've read about BIN online, but I've never used a shellac-based paint like this before. How do you clean up after it - with water or do you need thinner?


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## Rich (Apr 26, 2007)

I too would use BIN (and have for the same exact type project). It cleans up with ammonia. It's thinner than water, so be ready for it. There is a bit of a learning curve...stir the stuff well...it likes to gunk up at the bottom. And don't worry, it looks thin when you apply it, but it really is going on...just wait till it dries, you'll see a great result. It's quite smelly (kind of a strong sweet smell) and most HO's don't like the smell, so prepare them. 

Good luck


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## Roadog (Apr 18, 2007)

BIN is cut in denatured alcohol. Can be cleaned with that or as Rich said Ammonia. Turn pilot lights off if any! There is also a water base shellac but I have not used it yet. Going to though because of the alcohol in BIN. It dosnt bother me (respirator) but I can understand the home owner. Smell leaves fast though. Tarp completely!


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## iPaint (Nov 30, 2007)

Thanks for all the BIN clarification, but now I want to zero-in on the original question again based upon the advice I received. Again, what advice would YOU suggest for each situation?


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## EricTheHandyman (Jan 29, 2008)

iPaint, to answer your question:

ceilings: impossible to clean, so prime with BIN and topcoat with ceiling paint of your choice

walls: clean with TSP or TSP substitute, rinse thoroughly, prime with BIN, topcoat with paint of your choice.

I'd suggest a washable paint for the topcoat so that when it is ugly and nicotine stained again in a couple of years, it will be easier to clean it again.

Good luck, and make sure you charge appropriately for the extra prep work.


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## iPaint (Nov 30, 2007)

Thanks, Eric - that's the kind of specific answer I was looking for.

When you say to use "topcoat with ceiling paint of your choice", you're meaning alkyd or latex, right? Obviously, I'm trying to avoid the use of alkyd as much as possible in this situation! And when I use the BIN on the ceiling, do you know whether it spatters much or not? I ask this because a couple weeks ago I had to prime all the walls in a house and the first brand I used had zero spatter, but then I ran out and used another brand that covered everything in fine little drops.

As for the wall topcoat, I'll be using an eggshell finish. I hope this one choice in what you mean by "washable".


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## [email protected] (Mar 1, 2008)

I have had more than once White latex ceil paint bleed with bin as the base primer. Do as has been said through out this thread and bite the bullet and use ONLY oil.


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## EricTheHandyman (Jan 29, 2008)

iPaint said:


> Thanks, Eric - that's the kind of specific answer I was looking for.
> 
> When you say to use "topcoat with ceiling paint of your choice", you're meaning alkyd or latex, right? Obviously, I'm trying to avoid the use of alkyd as much as possible in this situation! And when I use the BIN on the ceiling, do you know whether it spatters much or not? I ask this because a couple weeks ago I had to prime all the walls in a house and the first brand I used had zero spatter, but then I ran out and used another brand that covered everything in fine little drops.
> 
> As for the wall topcoat, I'll be using an eggshell finish. I hope this one choice in what you mean by "washable".


BIN is like water, it spatters like crazy, so make sure everything is covered. As for the ceiling paint of your choice, alkyd would probably be overkill. Another poster stated that they had stains bleed through the BIN when using latex; I haven't had this problem, but I could see it happening if it is badly stained. Consider using the eggshell on the ceiling as well as the walls to make future washings easier.


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## [email protected] (Mar 1, 2008)

I guess you have seen the nicatia (SP)like I have where it is running down the walls. The oil is mainly to cover or Ass ya on a VERY lite one I would go BIN But is it worth the risk of it coming back through is the ?.


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## Joewho (Apr 17, 2007)

The options depend on the severity of the staining. If it's running down the walls, you have to wash first. Priming right over sever staining causes the stain to liquefy and dries with the primer. You'd then need to prime it again to cover it.

Ceilings can be washed, but in the past, I have washed only the first 2 or 4 inches away from all corners, where it seems to gather the most. Then paint it.

Just about any smoke can be washed off a painted surface and repainted, but the smell comes into play.

My own opinion would depend on pictures. .02


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## YubaPaintPro (Mar 2, 2008)

Are you rolling/brushing or can you spray? If you can spray BIN is absolutely the only way to go. Like stated, make sure the pilot light is out!!! Use any small paint rig w/ a 413 tip for the BIN. I sprayed lid to floors in an empty 1000 sq/ft home and used a lot of BIN to cover both nicotine and cat urine. The stuff works amazing.

Since I am in CA, USA, using oil for a finish is mostly a "no no" for anything but industrial substrates.

BIN for all surfaces and a latex eggshell for all as well. Use a good roller for the BIN to minimize splatter. Get the homeowners out for a day or so, as it will stink up the place. Bad. Great product though. Good luck.


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## iPaint (Nov 30, 2007)

*Update*

Just an update on the ceiling situation. I applied one coat of flat alkyd to the ceilings using a roller and absolutely no stains have bled through; the finish is pure white! I guess that eliminates the need for a stain-blocking primer before a top coat. Just thought I'd share this in case anyone else is facing the same dilemma!


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