# TrueValue WeatherAll Extreme Paint/Paint With Primer



## PaysonMtnMan (May 28, 2017)

I am interested how TrueValue WeatherAll Extreme Paint with primer holds up over time.

Also is paint with primer applied on new wood or previously painted wood as good as applying a coat of primer then paint.

I work in the paint department at a TrueValue store here in the mountains of Arizona.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Ladies, and gents. Fire it up. Here, we go!

Kindling on first folks. Let's do this right.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

PACman will be with you shortly.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

I'll get the marshmallows and hotdogs.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

I've got the Graham crackers and chocolate....ready, aim....oh packy poo, where are youuuuuu....?

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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

PaysonMtnMan said:


> I am interested how TrueValue WeatherAll Extreme Paint with primer holds up over time.
> 
> Also is paint with primer applied on new wood or previously painted wood as good as applying a coat of primer then paint.
> 
> I work in the paint department at a TrueValue store here in the mountains of Arizona.


Don't even think about asking about hardware store paint even if it held up extremely well, for more than 11 years on an old wood garage.
You will be villified to no end:vs_shocked:


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

Wowee


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

PaysonMtnMan said:


> I am interested how TrueValue WeatherAll Extreme Paint with primer holds up over time.
> 
> Also is paint with primer applied on new wood or previously painted wood as good as applying a coat of primer then paint.
> 
> I work in the paint department at a TrueValue store here in the mountains of Arizona.



Paint and primer does not have primer in it., and it wouldn't do anything beneficial if it did. Only good oil primer works well for raw wood especially exterior.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Works in paint department and is asking this?:vs_shocked::vs_whistle::vs_laugh:


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

If the individual is new to the business, it isn't going to hurt to help him learn a little here.


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## Delta Painting (Apr 27, 2010)

No such thing as paint and primer.... As a pro I would never just paint on raw wood a prime coat is tired and true method of getting the sub-strait ready for 2 coats of finish paint.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Lets put it this way.....I sold that for 5 years......it's a great buy one get one free paint, if you know what i mean. the Amish loved the buy one get one free paint! JABSP!


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

PACman said:


> Lets put it this way.....I sold that for 5 years......it's a great buy one get one free paint, if you know what i mean. the Amish loved the buy one get one free paint! JABSP!


Hey now, let's show some love for the Amish. Who else can build you a barn in one day?
And where would harness racing be without the Amish buggy?


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

Delta Painting said:


> No such thing as paint and primer.... As a pro I would never just paint on raw wood a prime coat is tired and true method of getting the sub-strait ready for 2 coats of finish paint.


That's true, but how many paints like Duration exterior say they are self-priming? The answer, a lot of them!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

so what is the difference between a paint that has a primer in it, and a primer that has paint in it?


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

Delta Painting said:


> No such thing as paint and primer.... As a pro I would never just paint on raw wood a prime coat is tired and true method of getting the sub-strait ready for 2 coats of finish paint.


That's true, but how many paints like Duration exterior say they are self-priming? The answer, a lot of them!


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

:biggrin:I don't know Pac, what came first the chicken, or the egg?


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## PaysonMtnMan (May 28, 2017)

Wolfgang said:


> If the individual is new to the business, it isn't going to hurt to help him learn a little here.


I AM new to the business and just trying to find out some facts so I can give customers good information.

Consumer reports had said that paint with primer seemed to be a good thing according to their tests. That's why I am asking the question to hear what the pros have to say. They currently list a Behr paint with primer as their best paint holding up very well over the long haul.

Concerning the TrueValue Paint I do know that they have their own factory and have been making paint for around 20 years or so.

I appreciate any constructive comments.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

PaysonMtnMan said:


> I AM new to the business and just trying to find out some facts so I can give customers good information.
> 
> Consumer reports had said that paint with primer seemed to be a good thing according to their tests. That's why I am asking the question to hear what the pros have to say. They currently list a Behr paint with primer as their best paint holding up very well over the long haul.
> 
> ...


The consumer reports ranking is like having a Super Bowl and not letting the top four teams compete in it. It is pretty much custom made so the Behr products will be on top, while through there own rules disallowing brands like California, Muralo, Graham, even most Pratt & Lambert products. The only P&L or Ben Moore products they test are pretty much excluded immediately because they test their most expensive lines. That puts them towards the bottom because of their price. Also, the paints that DO get tested have to pay a fee to get their products in the test on TOP of CR getting to pick and choose what brands to test. So essentially, even though they can make the claim that they don't take advertising money from anyone the whole magazine is an advertisement. These are the main reasons you don't see ANY PPG products other than the low line Olympic.

AND, the test procedures that they use are dictated by a control group of consumers that are polled right outside of the big box stores. Estimates are that as many as 75% of the people in that control group were polled in front of Home Depots. So they are asking people who have Behr paint in their shopping carts what are the most important attributes of paint? So what do you think they are going to say? Everything that is tested for that's what. Not one of those people is going to say "i think a super silky smooth finished appearance or how the paint looks when it is dried." They are in a hurry, they just bought Behr, and they just want little Kimmy's bedroom walls to be pink when they are done. What are they going to say? HIDE! And so and so down the list of what is on that CR ranking list.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

PaysonMtnMan said:


> I AM new to the business and just trying to find out some facts so I can give customers good information.
> 
> Consumer reports had said that paint with primer seemed to be a good thing according to their tests. That's why I am asking the question to hear what the pros have to say. They currently list a Behr paint with primer as their best paint holding up very well over the long haul.
> 
> ...


Uh oh....graham crackers anyone?

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## SWPB (Oct 6, 2016)

I will take the baton fellas.

Paint and Primer in one was the marketing genius of Behr. The industry giants, such as SW, PPG, and Ben Moore, laughed at the notion . . . until consumers began believing it. Without getting into a long drawn out story, paint has binders to adhere to a surface. Usually, these binders have just a few different sizes to get into cracks & crevices to anchor to the surface. A dedicated primer performs extremely well (several binder grind sizes, better resins usually) and should be used on bare surfaces. Primers typically have a specialized function: general drywall (hide joint seams), stain blocking, adhesion (clear is better--more resin, less pigment), uniform porosity for a nice consistent sheen, etc. Paints do well enough to go over existing painted surfaces (except latex over oil), but even then, a primer could help depending on the desired result.

As for True Value, I hear that some of the locations have decided to bring in a limited line of Coronado (only the Crylicote on the exterior side) to be the premium offering. Not everyone will have it, but I'm sure it will be a step up since Coronado is owned by Benjamin Moore.


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

Pacman, I'm surprised you didn't respond to my post about SW's Duration exterior saying that it's self-priming.
We all know how much love you have for Sherwin-Williams.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Brushman4 said:


> Pacman, I'm surprised you didn't respond to my post about SW's Duration exterior saying that it's self-priming.
> We all know how much love you have for Sherwin-Williams.


It is marketed as such. And It was on the market before Behr started the paint and primer crap. Duration is a acrylic cross-link resin which is a much harder, stronger, and much better adhering resin then what any Behr or other box store paint is made of. Duration and Manor Hall Timeless (and Porter Permanizer) as well as Dulux Fortis were the first cross linking UV cured acrylics. (In that order i believe. Duration was on the market at least 6 months before Timeless was. Fortis had been released in the European market sometime before Duration was in North America i believe but was a little later to the market here.) Behr was actually just using the acceptance of the self priming qualities of Duration as a marketing gimmick for a slightly upgraded Premium Plus Ultra when they marketed it as a "paint and primer". And don't believe what any of these actual paint companies say about the timeline of these products release dates. They have very self serving interests when they say theirs was released first. I was aware of the development of Duration in the mid nineties. There was an SW Polane product released in the early nineties that incorporated the acrylic cross link technologies that we had great success with in draconian VOC regulated San Diego county. Polane 700t. I painted our front counter Formica with it in 1993 and was amazed at it's adhesion and durability. This is one of the chemical coatings products that was an early development of this technology.


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

Cross link, hoodwink. I've used duration for quite awhile and believe it's a great product, not sure if it's worth what SW charges for it!
Now let's just say for 5hit and giggles you have a new house to paint, it's all wood trim and wood siding. So would you just slap 2 coats of Duration on it, and call it a day?
Do you think that SW has big enough balls to warrantee it?


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Brushman4 said:


> Cross link, hoodwink. I've used duration for quite awhile and believe it's a great product, not sure if it's worth what SW charges for it!
> Now let's just say for 5hit and giggles you have a new house to paint, it's all wood trim and wood siding. So would you just slap 2 coats of Duration on it, and call it a day?
> Do you think that SW has big enough balls to warrantee it?


No. But they might give you replacement paint! But in reality all paint warranties are a gamble, and the manufacturers are the "house". They ultimately are the only ones who gain anything from them, primarily as a marketing tool. On bare wood I am pretty old school in that I believe a long oil alkyd primer and two coats of acrylic top coat is the best system. Two coats of Duration on a sound previously painted surface or such as aluminum siding is a very good system, and it will outlast most "paint and primers" on the market.

The biggest issue for me warrantee wise so to speak is that no paint company is legally bound to provide for the labor cost of replacing or repairing a failed product. That in and of itself kind of throws the whole warrantee idea in the trash. If you are a good customer, or there is a predetermined defect with a product, a paint company may provide for labor costs to avoid any further legal action. In other words, if they know that they messed up and want to protect their butts they may pay for labor. Or if they determine that you are a big enough customer and have the potential to do more business with them they may pay for labor.

It comes down to integrity, and that is never warrantied. It varies from company to company and even district to district within a company, and that to me is the greatest failure of paint "warranties". Integrity cannot be put into black and white legal terms.


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

The point i was trying to make is the fact that paint and primer in one can is total bs, but so is the term self-priming!


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

I remember when Duration came out and the SW folks told me that two coats of Duration over raw wood was better than primer+Duration. I tried it on some T&G pine patio ceiling. It looked good till the sappy spots started to bleed through. Then I had to go back and spot prime with oil and recoat.

So maybe under ideal conditions, that claim would be true. Ya just can't count on ideal conditions much. 

So being a big believer in the KISS principle, I reverted back to oil prime + acrylic topcoat. It hasn't failed me yet.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

The "no primer needed" concept was not nearly as all encompassing as SW (and PPG) would have liked. It really only applied to increased hide and improved adhesion. It was never really intended for any other situations, and therefore primer may still be needed. Things like stain and tannin bleed for example. I used two coats of Timeless on some yellow pine 9-10 years ago and it has held up fine, although it is a 6" wide strip that is protected from the elements by my deck. I have a small piece of pine trim under my front door that was painted with two coats and it has a southern exposure and is directly exposed to the elements and after 6-7 years it is just starting to show signs of fade and and slight cracking.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

slinger58 said:


> I remember when Duration came out and the SW folks told me that two coats of Duration over raw wood was better than primer+Duration. I tried it on some T&G pine patio ceiling. It looked good till the sappy spots started to bleed through. Then I had to go back and spot prime with oil and recoat.
> 
> So maybe under ideal conditions, that claim would be true. Ya just can't count on ideal conditions much.
> 
> ...


Truth be told I'm testing the self priming properties of duration on my home on some barge boards and a rafter tail...i have to say it's tenacity is impressive. Not convincing enough to warranty it but I'll take duration as self priming in some situations (spot priming) over most (if not all) latex primers.....ill let ya know how it's held up in a few years.  oil is still top dog in my book though. Never a doubt or problem with the kiss method.

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## Stonehampaintdept (Jan 10, 2013)

SWPB said:


> I will take the baton fellas.
> 
> As for True Value, I hear that some of the locations have decided to bring in a limited line of Coronado (only the Crylicote on the exterior side) to be the premium offering. Not everyone will have it, but I'm sure it will be a step up since Coronado is owned by Benjamin Moore.


True Value has a partnership with BM to make Crylicote, Grand and Tough walls available to TV retailers. This does not infringe on another BM dealers district in any area. I was at the TV dealer show that introduced this program and after hearing everything from TV and BM, without drinking the juice, I saw it as a way for BM go gain more market share on under performing product lines. Now I'm not saying these products are bad, I've never tried them so I can't speak to that at all. But in the Northeast, we are very densely populated and the paint market is flooded. Within 3 miles of my front door are about 8 paint retailers between 2 Ace's (1 is BM), HD, Lowes, PPG, 2 SW's and 2 more BM shops. From what I've heard it has had some positive response, but the reatailers want the other BM products, not Coronado.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Stonehampaintdept said:


> True Value has a partnership with BM to make Crylicote, Grand and Tough walls available to TV retailers. This does not infringe on another BM dealers district in any area. I was at the TV dealer show that introduced this program and after hearing everything from TV and BM, without drinking the juice, I saw it as a way for BM go gain more market share on under performing product lines. Now I'm not saying these products are bad, I've never tried them so I can't speak to that at all. But in the Northeast, we are very densely populated and the paint market is flooded. Within 3 miles of my front door are about 8 paint retailers between 2 Ace's (1 is BM), HD, Lowes, PPG, 2 SW's and 2 more BM shops. From what I've heard it has had some positive response, but the reatailers want the other BM products, not Coronado.


They would be making a big mistake by not trying the Tough Wall products. I've been testing it and in it's price range it is a very excellent product, and i am making arraignments to start carrying it. It applies very well, covers very well, and has an extremely nice smooth finish when it is dried. Actually quite impressive taking into account it's price compared to P&L AND California products. It lays out on trim almost as well as Ultraplate. Not as hard but a very nice smooth finish. The eggshell has one of the nicest finishes I've seen in any price range. Comparable to Accolade.


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## SWPB (Oct 6, 2016)

Stonehampaintdept said:


> True Value has a partnership with BM to make Crylicote, Grand and Tough walls available to TV retailers. This does not infringe on another BM dealers district in any area. I was at the TV dealer show that introduced this program and after hearing everything from TV and BM, without drinking the juice, I saw it as a way for BM go gain more market share on under performing product lines. Now I'm not saying these products are bad, I've never tried them so I can't speak to that at all. But in the Northeast, we are very densely populated and the paint market is flooded. Within 3 miles of my front door are about 8 paint retailers between 2 Ace's (1 is BM), HD, Lowes, PPG, 2 SW's and 2 more BM shops. From what I've heard it has had some positive response, but the reatailers want the other BM products, not Coronado.


Provided the TV dealer is not too close (relative term) to an existing BM facility, it has every opportunity to pick up the BM brand. The BM sales manager makes the call.


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## Stonehampaintdept (Jan 10, 2013)

SWPB said:


> Provided the TV dealer is not too close (relative term) to an existing BM facility, it has every opportunity to pick up the BM brand. The BM sales manager makes the call.


Normally yes. But I have been told by both the local BM rep, True Value and the BM Reps who worked the TV show across the country that these specific products can be sold next door to each other regardless. For example: I am not an authorized BM dealer, their's one less than 1/2 mile down the street. I can put Crylicote, Grand and Tough Walls on my shelves tomorrow even if they decided to stock it. But these products only. They are stocked in all True Value warehouses and available to anyone who signs up for the program. I cannot have Regal, Aura ect. under the BM label, just these 3 under the Coronado label.


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## SWPB (Oct 6, 2016)

You are correct. The TV partnership and the ability to pickup the BM line are different deals. Any TV dealer can do the Coronado deal regardless of who is next door. The BM line is a different beast and is highly protected.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Clear primers*



SWPB said:


> I will take the baton fellas.
> 
> Paint and Primer in one was the marketing genius of Behr. The industry giants, such as SW, PPG, and Ben Moore, laughed at the notion . . . until consumers began believing it. Without getting into a long drawn out story, paint has binders to adhere to a surface. Usually, these binders have just a few different sizes to get into cracks & crevices to anchor to the surface. A dedicated primer performs extremely well (several binder grind sizes, better resins usually) and should be used on bare surfaces. Primers typically have a specialized function: general drywall (hide joint seams), stain blocking, adhesion (clear is better--more resin, less pigment), uniform porosity for a nice consistent sheen, etc. Paints do well enough to go over existing painted surfaces (except latex over oil), but even then, a primer could help depending on the desired result.
> 
> As for True Value, I hear that some of the locations have decided to bring in a limited line of Coronado (only the Crylicote on the exterior side) to be the premium offering. Not everyone will have it, but I'm sure it will be a step up since Coronado is owned by Benjamin Moore.


Just asking about your comment on clear primers "adhesion (clear is better--more resin, less pigment)" above. I am only familiar with Gardz by Zinsser. Can you speak as to any other clear "primers?" I am always curious about products that are better than Gardz, if there are any - besides the original Draw-Tite which is available in Chicago area only via shipping.

futtyos


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

futtyos said:


> Just asking about your comment on clear primers "adhesion (clear is better--more resin, less pigment)" above. I am only familiar with Gardz by Zinsser. Can you speak as to any other clear "primers?" I am always curious about products that are better than Gardz, if there are any - besides the original Draw-Tite which is available in Chicago area only via shipping.
> 
> futtyos


As far as I know you can buy Draw-Tite from the manufacturer online, free shipping! 
The problem I've always had with Gardz is that it's clear and it's hard to see where you applied it, even when you know you did.
Also for sealing patches you need at least 2 coats on the patched areas to prevent flashing.


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## SWPB (Oct 6, 2016)

Gardz is a good example. In general, colorants have one purpose--to create color. Only a few manufacturers have pigment embedded in resin (ie BM Gennex) that actually gives it some performance, but for conversation sake, we will just address manufacturers that use UTCs. 

In order to make a color, manufacturers that use Universal Tint Colorants (UTCs) have to displace the "guts" of the paint can (the resin that actually has performance value) to make room for colorant. Colorant does help a person achieve the desired color appearance, but there is a payoff--adhesion & sealing ability.

You will usually find clear primers addressing problem areas that involve bonding and sealing. Gardz attempts to seal the problem surface to create a nice foundation for the topcoats. Other clear primers include Peel Bond & Peel Stop, XIM 400 Clear, BM Ultra Spec Masonry Primer, Insl-X Tuffcrete, Bin Advanced, and even Kilz Max. In my experience, the clear masonry primers do a hell of a job bonding to mildly chalky surfaces or bonding in general. Granted, you may not get away with a single topcoat over a clear primer, but it's a great insurance policy to avert disaster related to peeling or adhesion.

Some products are available in white and in clear. All things equal, the clear will outperform the white in adhesion tests and usually pencil hardness. The white will do rather well in terms of hiding / color change.





futtyos said:


> Just asking about your comment on clear primers "adhesion (clear is better--more resin, less pigment)" above. I am only familiar with Gardz by Zinsser. Can you speak as to any other clear "primers?" I am always curious about products that are better than Gardz, if there are any - besides the original Draw-Tite which is available in Chicago area only via shipping.
> 
> futtyos


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

SWPB said:


> Gardz is a good example. In general, colorants have one purpose--to create color. Only a few manufacturers have pigment embedded in resin (ie BM Gennex) that actually gives it some performance, but for conversation sake, we will just address manufacturers that use UTCs.
> 
> In order to make a color, manufacturers that use Universal Tint Colorants (UTCs) have to displace the "guts" of the paint can (the resin that actually has performance value) to make room for colorant. Colorant does help a person achieve the desired color appearance, but there is a payoff--adhesion & sealing ability.
> 
> ...


Well I'm guessing you've never been on a job that you primed new drywall for the installation of 54 in. vinyl and had the super from the GC, tell you " I don't think you guys did a very good job of priming those walls, it needs at least another coat".


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Gardz being clear*



Brushman4 said:


> As far as I know you can buy Draw-Tite from the manufacturer online, free shipping!
> The problem I've always had with Gardz is that it's clear and it's hard to see where you applied it, even when you know you did.
> Also for sealing patches you need at least 2 coats on the patched areas to prevent flashing.


My experince in using Gardz is that it produces a slightly darker surface than unsealed areas adjacent to sealed areas. The Gardzed areas also have a slight, somewhat uneven sheen with one coat and a more uniform satin sheen with 2 coats.

My experience applying a first coat of Gardz is that it goes slowly, although not as slow as applying a first coat of 123 or other similar white pigmented primer that really has to be worked in. IMO the advantage of Gardz being clear and thinner than pigmented primers is that it soaks through any dust on the surface and glues it into the wall, leaving a perfectly dust-free surface to paint over.

As far as needing 2 coats of Gardz to avoid flashing, the following is from the TDS for Gardz regarding application:

Apply only when air, material, and surface temperatures
are between 50-90ºF (10-32ºC) and the relative humidity
is below 85%. Thoroughly mix before using. DO NOT
THIN. Apply GARDZ liberally to the entire surface using a
brush, medium nap roller or sprayer, to ensure good
penetration. Do not over apply or the coating will sag.
GARDZ appears milky blue-white during the application
but dries water clear. Properly sealed surfaces should
have a uniform sheen. Reapply to areas that have been
missed or lack sufficient coating. 

I have found that a second coat of Gardz goes on in at least half the time it takes for the first coat to apply. The GC I am doing work for usually wants a coat of 123 so he can see boo-boos in his skim coating to fix and wants a coat of white primer so he can see what needs to be fixed. He feels that if a coat of 123 or other white primer is applied on top of the skim coat, it is a waste of time to apply Gardz first. I feel that the Gardz helps the blue top to be harder and resist dings better while also sealing surface dust into the wall so that subsequent top coats of primer or paint adhere properly. There is only one time to Gardz a skimmed wall and that is directly on top of the skimmed material before any other primer, paint or coating is applied. The GC skimmed the walls around a medicine cabinet in one unit with blue top, then primed it himself with 123. I painted BM Regal Select flat over it. Later, I painted the medicine cabinet with Advance. I taped the wall next to the cabinet to get a straight line, but misapplied the tape. I pulled it off to reposition it and the paint and primer came right off. I would like to think that this would not have happened had a healthy coat of Gardz been applied onto the blue top before any priming was done. I will have to do some PACman experiments on this in the future.

I suppose I should not use any opportunity I find to wax on about the benefits of Gardz as this is not directly related to the subject of this post, but it is germane to me as far as discussing paint and primers in one. I pretty much figure on 2 coats of any paint to get even coverage, hide, proper sheen and a uniform looking coat. From that standpoint, I find that 2 proper coats of Gardz are difficult to beat for laying the foundation for a great finish. Will 2 coats of Aura directly onto drywall give the same finish? I have heard others here claim that it does. I have not yet had the opportunity to try that out, but I find it hard to believe that any paint will adhere to bare drywall and mud better than over 2 coats of Gardz and also withstand the tape test, but I could be wrong.

OCD futtyos


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## SWPB (Oct 6, 2016)

Brushman4 said:


> Well I'm guessing you've never been on a job that you primed new drywall for the installation of 54 in. vinyl and had the super from the GC, tell you " I don't think you guys did a very good job of priming those walls, it needs at least another coat".


That's a super with zero knowledge about wallcovering sizer / primer. After all, the wallcovering sizer / primer is designed to seal, allow easier installation of the wc (easier to slide into place), and inevitably provide an easier removal process when the time comes. That being said, most of those jobs don't use a clear. Usually you will have it tinted (provided it's a pastel color) to not draw attention to a seam that may have opened up over time. Even then, it doesn't need to be 100% perfect.


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

SWPB said:


> That's a super with zero knowledge about wallcovering sizer / primer. After all, the wallcovering sizer / primer is designed to seal, allow easier installation of the wc (easier to slide into place), and inevitably provide an easier removal process when the time comes. That being said, most of those jobs don't use a clear. Usually you will have it tinted (provided it's a pastel color) to not draw attention to a seam that may have opened up over time. Even then, it doesn't need to be 100% perfect.


Well a lot of them think they know everything thing about every trade!:vs_laugh:
Back in the golden days of yore we used to prime drywall for hanging with oil, then when everyone started bitching about smell,we started using a water based BM product that was clear but with a blue-green tint. It might just have been called Wall Prep. With these methods it was easy to see compared to Guardz. I guess I could just shoot some universal into and achieve the same thing!


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