# Solid Body Stain vs Paint



## BigDogPainting (Apr 13, 2011)

Lets point out the obvious; stains penetrate the woods surface and don't require priming. Paint isn't restricted to wood applications and require priming on bare surfaces.

What other differences are there between solid body stains and paint? Pros and Cons for both? What bonds previously failing stains/paints better? Which lasts longer? Can solid body stain be applied over primed metals, spackle, and/or caulking?


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## BigDogPainting (Apr 13, 2011)

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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Besides what you already mentioned, stain is more permeable and will breath better not trapping moisture which is a major cause of early paint failure. Depending on the substrate, paint generally lasts longer. As for solid stain on metal? Like gutters? Sure, but why? Stain is for wood. Over caulking and spackle? Sure. I hope that helps.


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## kerk (Oct 14, 2009)

Until someone can reveal to me the secret ingredient that differentiates solid color acrylic stain from paint, other than industry hype.........add one pint, to one quart, of water to a gallon of 'satin house paint', and presto-chango, you have solid color stain. 

They may bump the pigment a bit, as they are thinning the film build, but the key word is 'may'.

Ever wonder why the stain is cheaper?

Stain penetrates? 

Of course it penetrates 'more', it's thinner. Mineral spirits penetrates more than motor oil. But seriously, how 'much more' is a latex stain going to penetrate, than a latex house paint, when they both dry to touch in 30 minutes?

It's all in the factory recipe, which used to be on the cans (condensed version), but I believe the paint lobby got that law rescinded.

'Latex Stain'.........another industry created market, like 'Latex Primer'.

IMHO........of course.


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## Tonyg (Dec 9, 2007)

Also, if a substrate already has a solid stain applied then there is no more 'penetration into the wood. I believe in the past the film formed from paint did not have the elasticity of paint today and the stain had a better chance of surviving the movement of the wood. I would also think that the stain is much more permeable but again, not sure that would be a big factor on previously coated wood and the premium acrylics today are much better than yester-year


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## Bill15 (Jan 19, 2011)

*Hybrid stains- semi-transparent and solid types*

There are hybrid (oil/acrylic) stains, such as the Flood SWF (solid) or TWF(semi-transparent), which provide a great combination for performance. 
You obtain the penetration of the alkyd resin, with the color retention of the acrylic. 

On a deck surface, a stain penetrates so that you avoid creating a wear layer (as a paint would). As a result the finish lasts longer (where with a paint, it would have to be repainted periodically, depending on the climate). Acrylic stains are generally similar to paints. It is hard to find alkyd (oil-based) stains, which are somewhat prohibited due to EPA VOC limits. Those stains were generally thinner in viscosity.

I hope that this is helpful.


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## kerk (Oct 14, 2009)

Bill15 said:


> On a deck surface, a stain penetrates so that you avoid creating a wear layer (as a paint would). As a result the finish lasts longer (where with a paint, it would have to be repainted periodically, depending on the climate). Acrylic stains are generally similar to paints.


:blink:

Any coating that is applied to anything, for the sake of protection or cosmetics, will have a "wear layer". If a 'layer' is not created, then there is no sense applying it!

What holds the colored pigment POWDER in place? The 'layer'.

What seals 'out' moisture from the substrate? The 'layer'.

Also, stains don't last longer than paint. They just give you the false impression that they are because the film is too thin to notice the cracks. Then what you 'will' notice, is the cracks in your wood from water intrusion, because you waited too long to re-coat, and the thin 'layer' that was covering the peaks in the high points of the hard grain have worn off, and are slowly starting to absorb water, yet are not really noticeable, as there appears to be no cracking or peeling.

On an exposed, stained deck, if you wait until it 'looks' like it needs re-'staining', you've waited too long, and the 'crack, swell, crack,' cycle has begun.

On the other hand, if you are not one disciplined enough to schedule a deck re-stain every two years (at least from Georgia, south), then a deck paint is the ticket, as it will provide enough film to make breakdowns in the coating much easier to spot, and deal with, before the wood absorbs much moisture. And it will have to be re-coated 'less' often than its latex, or oil, counterpart, as the thicker film build gives more flexibility and UV resistance than stain.


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## schmidtpainting (Jul 12, 2009)

*Flood Swf*

Flood Swf is the key to repairing decks that have lots of crack as it get in the cracks and seals them it is a hybrid. Here's a test put Flood SWF on your fingers try to wash it off with water, now try to wash it off with paint thinner, how about brush cleaner and it's still on your fingers. It seeps into every pore it can find and bonds. It will bond to latex or oil. It last a long time compared to other products and makes weathered wood look feel smooth like plastic. If you have a deck last has seriously bad peeling problems power wash allow to dry apply mad dog primer $65 per gallon thinly to the deck and the top and bottom of the railings when it drys and you walk on it, it will feel like your walking on super glue now apply Flood swf over that and you won't have problems for 5 years with peeling.

Flood TWF Semi Transperant is the best replacement for bleach oil on the market hands down. It will stick to oil or latex. It will turn out almost one solid color and drys in 1 and a half hours which will allow you to put 2 coats on in one day without waiting for the paint to dry. Try that with bleaching oil especially with the new VOC laws and you will have a big mess.

Super deck exotic hardwood oil and pressure treated oil both does a great job it penetrates the wood 2 inchs looks great last long and the best part is there is no getting on your hands and knees with rag to soak up the puddles left because it quickly soaks into the wood without leave the dreaded shine spots.

Benjamin Moore Advance Hybrid trim paint is crap. It stinks and it runs like crazy.

Sherwin Williams Duration is the best exterior trim paint and out last the compotion 2 years or more.

Sherwin Williams Wood scapes sucks it leaves shiny spots

Benjamin Moore Abor coat is the best Solid Body Stain for coverage and fade resistates.

Aqua lock from insulale x is a great primer

cover stain primer by zinnser from preventing yellowing and cover marks


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## One Coat Coverage (Oct 4, 2009)

Solid body stains fade very quickly.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Depends on the base OCC, and of course exposure to UV. 



kerk said:


> Until someone can reveal to me the secret ingredient that differentiates solid color acrylic stain from paint, other than industry hype.........add one pint, to one quart, of water to a gallon of 'satin house paint', and presto-chango, you have solid color stain.
> 
> They may bump the pigment a bit, as they are thinning the film build, but the key word is 'may'.
> 
> ...


Seriously? You don't think acrylic primer is any different than acrylic paint? Acrylic stain will breath, paint will not and if it does it will fail.


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## cappaint (May 24, 2011)

schmidtpainting said:


> Flood Swf is the key to repairing decks that have lots of crack as it get in the cracks and seals them it is a hybrid. Here's a test put Flood SWF on your fingers try to wash it off with water, now try to wash it off with paint thinner, how about brush cleaner and it's still on your fingers. It seeps into every pore it can find and bonds. It will bond to latex or oil. It last a long time compared to other products and makes weathered wood look feel smooth like plastic. If you have a deck last has seriously bad peeling problems power wash allow to dry apply mad dog primer $65 per gallon thinly to the deck and the top and bottom of the railings when it drys and you walk on it, it will feel like your walking on super glue now apply Flood swf over that and you won't have problems for 5 years with peeling.
> 
> Flood TWF Semi Transperant is the best replacement for bleach oil on the market hands down. It will stick to oil or latex. It will turn out almost one solid color and drys in 1 and a half hours which will allow you to put 2 coats on in one day without waiting for the paint to dry. Try that with bleaching oil especially with the new VOC laws and you will have a big mess.
> 
> ...


 
You know your **** for sure.


Would you recommend doing this process for a painted deck that is severly peeling? 

Where do you get the products you listed?


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## alan (Feb 17, 2010)

schmidtpainting said:


> Flood Swf is the key to repairing decks that have lots of crack as it get in the cracks and seals them it is a hybrid. Here's a test put Flood SWF on your fingers try to wash it off with water, now try to wash it off with paint thinner, how about brush cleaner and it's still on your fingers. It seeps into every pore it can find and bonds. It will bond to latex or oil. It last a long time compared to other products and makes weathered wood look feel smooth like plastic. If you have a deck last has seriously bad peeling problems power wash allow to dry apply mad dog primer $65 per gallon thinly to the deck and the top and bottom of the railings when it drys and you walk on it, it will feel like your walking on super glue now apply Flood swf over that and you won't have problems for 5 years with peeling.
> 
> Flood TWF Semi Transperant is the best replacement for bleach oil on the market hands down. It will stick to oil or latex. It will turn out almost one solid color and drys in 1 and a half hours which will allow you to put 2 coats on in one day without waiting for the paint to dry. Try that with bleaching oil especially with the new VOC laws and you will have a big mess.
> 
> ...


I completely agree with you about the flood stain for decks hands down the best thing on the market and the price is great. but the only time I have trouble with woodscapes solid stain is if im back brushing as i spray. when it dries you can slightly see the brush marks "glow" or sheen.


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## kerk (Oct 14, 2009)

straight_lines said:


> Depends on the base OCC, and of course exposure to UV.
> 
> Seriously? You don't think acrylic primer is any different than acrylic paint?


Never said it 'wasn't' different......I said it was hype.

Oh it's different.....if you need to purchase a separate product that has more fine ground kitty litter added so it fills in, and builds up.

 But hey, that sounds more like an 'undercoater' than a primer, eh? In that case, just buy a 1 or 5 of Pro Mar 700, or use some leftover low grade flats in your shop, and throw in a little acrylic emulsion that you can buy off the shelf...........same thing.

Now, as far as the acrylic 'primer' part, humor me........what is that special ingredient in 'latex primer' that gives it special 'adhesion' qualities in order for it to be a superior 'first coat'?

Times up..........nothing.

So, a middle grade flat wall paint will have basically the same makeup as 'latex primer' (architectural, not industrial coatings), except maybe a hair less kitty litter, plus with a touch of mildecide added.

Worth buying another product as a prime coat, when I got left over wall paints? Not to me.



> Acrylic stain will breath, paint will not and if it does it will fail.


Really? And one sheet of paper will tear easier than three.

It ain't that 'only' stain breaths.........'all' latex products are porous (thus the industry marketeers realized they could sell it as 'breathable'.........brilliant!), and hence, they all breath. 

Did you ever wonder why ALL latex products are not to be used where they're subject to ponding water? Hmmm 

Paint the inside of a cereal bowl with a 10 mil build of elastomeric. After it cures for a month, fill it with water. See how long it takes for the water to 'breath' right through it and breaks the adhesion.

Do the same with a latex stain and see how much 'faster' the water breaths right through it.

.......it's just that a 2 mil build of stain will breath easier than a 6 mil build of paint. 

So, if you need your 'latex paint' to breath 'easier'............

just add water, like they do at the factory........

and label it 'Stain'.

Now I'm no chemist, I'm just a guy who spent quite a few years with his nose in the books, his fingers in the cans, and his head up the azzez of lab techs and chemists.

If any lab tech or chemist on this board wants to dispute my claims, and back it with available online formulation data (not just his say so), I will gladly eat crow, and learn at the same time.

I could be wrong, but I seriously doubt it.


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

Good stuff, kerk.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Solid color acrylic stain on ROUGH cedar is the most trouble free exterior maintenance product for exterior wood, in my opinion. Less prone to peeling than a three coat paint job, wood is less likely to rot out (I have often noted that painting deck railings rot quicker than stain deck railings for solid color applications).


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

That can't be Dean its the same as flat paint. So is primer.



Chemisty is funny like that you know, changing teeny tiny things make something totally different.


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## One Coat Coverage (Oct 4, 2009)

Solid body stains fade out very quickly. Sure it won't peel, but looks real bad all faded out.


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## kerk (Oct 14, 2009)

DeanV said:


> Solid color acrylic stain on ROUGH cedar is the most trouble free exterior maintenance product for exterior wood, in my opinion. Less prone to peeling than a three coat paint job, wood is less likely to rot out (I have often noted that painting deck railings rot quicker than stain deck railings for solid color applications).


Did you ever think that just 'maybe' a solid stain doesn't even give you enough 'film build' to be able to peel? 

They just deteriorate by flaking and chalking before the adhesion has a chance to break. Thus, you 'see' no peeling! It's just peeling in itsy, bitsy pieces.

After all, if they didn't do that......they would last forever, right?

You may want to read my previous response to Bill15.

'Painted hand rails rot quicker'? Just how many of thesw 'hand rail, stain vs. paint' rot jobs have you cataloged and differentiated the previous coating in? 2, 6, 60?

You may be right, I just don't see any reason why that would happen 'except' that the owner neglected the coating way too long, ignored the cracking, and thus the rails absorbed water where the film had cracked and separated. 

Don't confuse owner neglect with coating failure.


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## kerk (Oct 14, 2009)

straight_lines said:


> That can't be Dean its the same as flat paint. So is primer.
> 
> 
> 
> Chemisty is funny like that you know, changing teeny tiny things make something totally different.


'Stain the same as flat paint'?

You may want to read one of my previous posts:

"..Until someone can reveal to me the secret ingredient that differentiates solid color acrylic stain from paint, other than industry hype.........add one pint, to one quart, of water to a gallon of 'satin house paint', and presto-chango, you have solid color stain....".

And those 'teeny tiny things'? As far as coatings..........like what?


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

My observations are based on over 100 homes that we maintain since the mid 90s.


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