# are you certified



## aaron61

“Until October 1, 2010, EPA will not take enforcement action for violations of the RRP Rule’s firm certification requirement.”

“For violations of the RRP Rule’s renovation worker certification requirement, EPA will not enforce against individual renovation workers if the person has applied to enroll in, or has enrolled in, by not later than September 30, 2010, a certified renovator class to train contractors in practices necessary for compliance with the final rules. Renovators must complete training by December 31, 2010.”

So basically they won't fine you for not being certified and working on a home that has lead paint if you are signed up by Today.


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## dubinpainting

I have not been reading all the emails that they have been sending me and have not really been keeping track of all the new changes, but I became a certified firm last winter sometime. Do I need to attend another class for all the changes, or since I'm already certified I don't have to worry?


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## RCP

dubinpainting said:


> I have not been reading all the emails that they have been sending me and have not really been keeping track of all the new changes, but I became a certified firm last winter sometime. Do I need to attend another class for all the changes, or since I'm already certified I don't have to worry?


When did you take your RRP training?


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## Roamer

dubinpainting said:


> I have not been reading all the emails that they have been sending me and have not really been keeping track of all the new changes, but I became a certified firm last winter sometime. Do I need to attend another class for all the changes, or since I'm already certified I don't have to worry?


Emails? I haven't gotten a single thing from the EPA even though I signed up on the link that, I think it was Aaron that posted it, to receive updates.

I was at a PDCA dinner/meeting last month and they had a Industrial Hygenist there to discuss compliance issues and how to deal with the paperwork. She was under fire from the word go. Talk about killing the messenger. I was not blameless in this attack as I too am frustrated by many of the contradictions and ridiculous requirements of the RRP.

Seems as though the EPA hasn't completely thought through the entire process of the regulations and the training.


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## dvp

im certified, and the firm i work for is now certified. alot of people in california dont even know about this yet. the state licence board supposedly sent out letters to all contractors, but not one person in our class had received one or knows anyone who has. this is going to be a mess. in cali everything before 78 is assumed lead and you cant test for yourself. i had to try to explain this whole thing to the owner and operations manager of our company as they hadnt heard of this yet either.
our office manager listen to my explanation of the whole thing and said "this doesnt make any sense at all". all i could say is; "yea, i know". at least we can use their cool green logo on all our stuff, i think.


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## WisePainter

nope.

not gonna subject myself to pre-1978 houses because most around here are turds anyways. 
This area developed greatly every 2 years since 1978, you can actually SEE the southward progression from above the river, finishing at 166th st. where the housing boom collapsed.

Lemme tell you straight, it goes from packing a weapon up north to 3 Hummer houses on 15 acres of deserted streets and overgrown sidewalks.
I won't go above 65th St.


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## dubinpainting

RCP said:


> When did you take your RRP training?


Maybee it wasent the winter, I just took a look at my certificate April 15, 2010. I know that they have changed somethings since then but I have not realy been following it to much.


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## dubinpainting

Roamer said:


> Emails? I haven't gotten a single thing from the EPA even though I signed up on the link that, I think it was Aaron that posted it, to receive updates.
> 
> I was at a PDCA dinner/meeting last month and they had a Industrial Hygenist there to discuss compliance issues and how to deal with the paperwork. She was under fire from the word go. Talk about killing the messenger. I was not blameless in this attack as I too am frustrated by many of the contradictions and ridiculous requirements of the RRP.
> 
> Seems as though the EPA hasn't completely thought through the entire process of the regulations and the training.


I don't think the emails where from the EPA they where through the Conor Institute thats where I took the classes.


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## Dean CRCNA

Dub,

To answer your question ... you're ok.

They did get rid of the opt-out and you have to give the homeowner a copy of your checklist, but other than that ... basically no new changes.

As far as the Certified Firm, you need to be either working for one or become one yourself.


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## NEPS.US

*are you certified* 

just say no.


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## WisePainter

NEPS.US said:


> *are you certified*
> 
> just say no.


i forgot, you are the boss of the whole internet...

lol.


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## Schmidt & Co.

I took the class the begining of March. Sent in my check and application for firm cirt. eight weeks ago, nothing yet......


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## Paradigmzz

Schmidt & Co. said:


> I took the class the begining of March. Sent in my check and application for firm cirt. eight weeks ago, nothing yet......



it is the Federal government after all. Quick and efficient is not their middle name... Took me almost 3 months to get mine back.


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## Roamer

Dean CRCNA said:


> Dub,
> 
> To answer your question ... you're ok.
> 
> They did get rid of the opt-out and you have to give the homeowner a copy of your checklist, but other than that ... basically no new changes.
> 
> As far as the Certified Firm, you need to be either working for one or become one yourself.



Yeah, you should be okay. You do, however, need to make sure that the Right to Renovate brochure or pdf that you're giving to the customer is the latest version. Since the rule change on July 6th of this year there has been an updated version of the brochure available. I know that here that the Sherwin Williams stores still carry the old brochure which is not acceptable to give to the homeowner. 

I just learned this at a recent PDCA meeting/dinner with a Lead trainer as the guest speaker.


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## Schmidt & Co.

Just got my firm cert in the mail today! :thumbup:


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## Dean CRCNA

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Just got my firm cert in the mail today! :thumbup:


:thumbup:

Make several copies, scan it to your computer and put it somewhere safe.

I put mine in a safe place and then couldn't find it. Had to order another


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## jmda

We took the class in March. We have 5 certified renovators (including my wife and I) and registered the firm in April. So far we did a few jobs that we had to apply the new regs to and we have two coming up an exterior and an interior.

The interior is heart breaking. The ten week old newborn has already tested positive for lead (they suspect there maybe lead pipes too, which is being tested). Any rate all the walls and trim inside the house tested positive for lead. We are going to use Lead Block from Coronado then paint with PPG/Porter Glyptex oil on the trim and I think Ceramic Matte on the walls.

I think the new laws are way over the top, but in this particular case perhaps not.


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## RCP

Wow, that is sad. Keep us posted on how it all works out.
Tell us about that Lead block paint?!


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## BrushJockey

I'm cert'd , and have done a number of int jobs using it. Actually finding that the set up isn't too bad, what I don't like is having to clean floors that haven't been cleaned , at least well, in a long time. Pulling a three times and your out on those.


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## daren

on average how much does this RRP stuff add to the cost of a job? $ or %


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## RCP

daren said:


> on average how much does this RRP stuff add to the cost of a job? $ or %


Lot of variables, if you add the training/certification costs, insurance costs per job as opposed to overhead.

Then there is the HEPA vac, dustless tools, test kits, signs and paperwork.

Then when you finally get to the job, the plastic, masks and stuff you probably used before, just now much more of it!

Here is a blog that has more info.


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## daren

RCP said:


> Lot of variables, if you add the training/certification costs, insurance costs per job as opposed to overhead.
> 
> Then there is the HEPA vac, dustless tools, test kits, signs and paperwork.
> 
> Then when you finally get to the job, the plastic, masks and stuff you probably used before, just now much more of it!
> 
> Here is a blog that has more info.



Thanks.

Says there that the EPA estimates between $8 and $167 per job. Which looks kind of low to me.

I'm trying to figure out how to sell this. When I talk to a customer I want to be able to say something like "We found lead in your old paint. The additional work to contain and clean up the lead will take x hours and cost $xx."


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## RCP

daren said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Says there that the EPA estimates between $8 and $167 per job. Which looks kind of low to me.
> 
> I'm trying to figure out how to sell this. When I talk to a customer I want to be able to say something like "We found lead in your old paint. The additional work to contain and clean up the lead will take x hours and cost $xx."


It is way low, supposedly the EPA assumed we all used plastic, vacs and most of the dust control already.

I'd be very careful on how I worded that. You are not cleaning up lead.

During the visit,
According to recent studies, it has been found that the possible presence of Lead Dust can be harmful to the occupants. The EPA recently made it mandatory for anyone working on a pre 1978 home to be certified and follow LSR. Our company has been trained and certified to follow these procedures. There are some additional costs involved if Lead is found or if we do not test and assume the presence.

In a proposal,
Line item for RRP costs

In your contract, maybe something like this,

****** Co. will do all work in accordance with the EPA’s RRP rule pertaining to lead paint hazards and have been trained and Certified through the EPA for this work. The Home owners have received and signed their copy of the EPA’s “Renovate Right” pamphlet.


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## bikerboy

daren said:


> Thanks.
> 
> "We found lead in your old paint. The additional work to contain and clean up the lead will take x hours and cost $xx."


 
I would never frame it like that for two reasons.

1. I don't want them to see me as the bad guy. Adding addtional work and costs to the job.

2. I want to use the __________ (fill in the blank, power, fear, mandate, law, full force) of the federal government to persuade them to follow the law and not go with the cheaper guy because he is skirting it.

 I know so many contractors in all trades that are just ignoring it for now. Once they start to toss fines like frisbees, the whole industry is going to change.


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## Dean CRCNA

daren said:


> on average how much does this RRP stuff add to the cost of a job? $ or %


On exterior paint jobs, I've heard several contractors say it adds 50% to the job. Some of this added expense is because they can't use a pressure washer.


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## daren

Thanks guys. This is some great info. I like the idea of pointing the finger at the EPA.


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## jmda

RCP said:


> Wow, that is sad. Keep us posted on how it all works out.
> Tell us about that Lead block paint?!


The lead block seemed to work ok as a primer. It covered well and laid on smoothly. It drys a little soft like an exterior paint, so a little time is needed to see how it really works on interior trim.

It is a heavy thick paint. We sprayed it in the basement using a Graco 1095, but the paint store did not recommend using a small pump with this product.


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## straight_lines

I have a job I just bid this week where I needed it so I guess I need to go on and get the cert. 

I had to call in another contractor who is my competition to piggy back off his certs, and am giving him this huge ceiling instead of doing it myself. I said I wasn't gonna bother, but it seems I am eating my words sooner than I thought.


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