# Idiot Clients



## Flat Rate Painting (May 3, 2015)

In all the years we have painted (run a business) never have we had idiot clients like we do today! Usually our clients are super nice - offer coffee etc., sometimes even offer to help (always refuse that offer!) and generally are very happy to see their projects happening. Our current client, absolute asses and there is nothing I can do about it but finish and run for the hills. We are treated like slaves and told when to come and go. The client was having two bedrooms, hallway, bathroom and office painted - they didn't move one damn thing out of they way - even left the pictures hanging on the wall so instead of making a big fuss we would clear as we went along. In the office they had this huge filing cabinet that we should have painted around since we are not furniture movers but instead we moved it. The next day, after we finish painting the ass says "my filing cabinet won't close and I will have to get a lock smith to fix it and send you the bill". well we did fix it in less than 30 seconds but would not move it back into it's original spot. The thing that pissed me off was the way he said it and that he waited until the end of the day to say it. Today we went back for yet another round at 9 in the morning to finish up and are sent away for three hours so their baby can sleep! Are you serious, what the hell are we going to do for 3 hours! Oh how I want to finish - should be fun trying to get paid from this job!:vs_mad: Wondering if anyone else has had asshole clients.


----------



## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

We have and many of us have. Some are hard to spot right away. Their answers are what we want to hear then we get to the job and they think they own us.

I tell people straight out for us to move a dresser its at an hourly rate, no matter if it takes a second or few minutes we tack on an hour labor for each thing we have to move. There are exceptions, pregnant, elderly or handicapped we will move every thing at no charge. Our rates are not cheap at all so it adds up very fast. We will also walk off a job if the person thinks they own us while we are there. Sorry no one owns me, I do what I want (Words from the great Cartman). 

When we have had to move a Filing cabinet we make sure the owner is there, right in front of them open each draw to more or less keep from having to buy a new one when they say we broke it. I also will take video and pictures when we move stuff.
Knock on wood the very very few times we were blammed for breaking something we did and knew it was on us.

Some people just suck.


----------



## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Time to review / re-word your contracts. Spell it all out no matter how common sense it seems.


----------



## HC-Raad (Jan 26, 2017)

Flat Rate Painting said:


> The client was having two bedrooms, hallway, bathroom and office painted - they didn't move one damn thing out of they way - even left the pictures hanging on the wall so instead of making a big fuss we would clear as we went along. In the office they had this huge filing cabinet that we should have painted around since we are not furniture movers but instead we moved it.
> 
> Today we went back for yet another round at 9 in the morning to finish up and are sent away for three hours so their baby can sleep! Are you serious, what the hell are we going to do for 3 hours! Oh how I want to finish - should be fun trying to get paid from this job!:vs_mad: Wondering if anyone else has had asshole clients.


I don't believe your clients are idiots (people don't know how you work or your process. They can't read your mind - If you don't explain to them in writing before the work begins, stuff like this may happen from time to time.

I believe you need terms and stipulations in your contract. Without terms, anything goes - so shame on you. With terms, you are in the drivers seat.


----------



## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

At the end of the day, you have to control your customers to an extent. I'll try and be accommodating within reason. The stuff you're describing is absolute idiocy. I put up with some of that stuff when I first started out.

Over the years, I've learned that customers need direction. If not firm direction. I used to be kind of squeamish about telling customers what they needed to do. That's definitely worn off over time.


----------



## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

HC-Raad said:


> I don't believe your clients are idiots (people don't know how you work or your process. They can't read your mind - If you don't explain to them in writing before the work begins, stuff like this may happen from time to time.
> 
> 
> 
> I believe you need terms and stipulations in your contract. Without terms, anything goes - so shame on you. With terms, you are in the drivers seat.




I don't think these clients are idiots either. But I'm pretty dang sure they're Grade A assholes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HC-Raad (Jan 26, 2017)

slinger58 said:


> I don't think these clients are idiots either. But I'm pretty dang sure they're Grade A assholes.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There are a-holes everywhere (just take a drive on the roads). We have to protect our businesses and employees with a stiff-detailed-terms in contract. And make them initial every page. If you do work without one - you get what you get, shame on you. I have run into people like this in my day (the list is endless), I feel his pain. Instead of complaining about it. Put it in writing. Have a customer responsibility clause and/or to-do-list, and give it to them line by line. 

I just signed a lease to rent a house, you should see the 11 page contract I had to sign, it was scary. They covered anything and everything.


----------



## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

I always find it interesting to see other companies policies on moving furniture, wall hangings, etc.. I know several posters here have detailed contract stipulations about the customer's responsibility as far as preparing the space for painting. 

I've always offered full service interior painting. We move and cover all furniture, remove all wall hangings, and put everything back when we're done as a matter of course. It's just part of the deal. 

I suppose it would be nice to ask customers to move their own furniture, or hire another company to do it, but I feel like that kind of policy wouldn't go over too well with the kind of upper class customer we market to. I can't imagine telling some rich lawyer or doctor that they needed to move furniture for us any more than I can imagine asking them to take off their own switch plates. Our service is all inclusive. 

We're all different I suppose. The things laid out in the OP as being indicative of "idiocy" are things I do for my customers on every job. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

Moving furniture,covering floors, taking down drapes, etc are all part of the job. No client I know will hire you the minute you tell them you charge for moving furniture or setting up. We just build it into estimate. We do have clauses about moving breakable stuff or hanging pictures but sadly as with all things some people are good about it and some are not.

It's very very very competitive here and painting contractors are a dime a dozen so if you want to act like you don't need the work you won't get the work. There's plenty of illegals just waiting to paint for low wages and work long hours and plenty of legit contractors who are hungry for work.

But I must say in all my years I was never asked to leave to let a baby sleep:surprise:


----------



## HC-Raad (Jan 26, 2017)

Jmayspaint said:


> I've always offered full service interior painting. We move and cover all furniture, remove all wall hangings, and put everything back when we're done as a matter of course. It's just part of the deal.


Full service painting, doesn't mean moving pictures from walls and clutter, so you can paint. I move furniture and window treatments only. 

I just went on an estimate and the HO asked me if I will remove and reinstall a wall mounted TV?, I said no! He said, "I don't understand, you can't remove a TV", I said, "I can, I just don't offer it at part of my service, and I honestly don't want the liability".


----------



## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Telling the painters to leave for 3 hours while the baby slept is what landed them on what Gough refers to as the "fecal roster".

The longer you're in the business, the better your screening process gets. Rather than a lengthy detailed written contract, I'd rather just sift out the a-holes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HC-Raad (Jan 26, 2017)

slinger58 said:


> Telling the painters to leave for 3 hours while the baby slept is what landed them on what Gough refers to as the "fecal roster".
> 
> The longer you're in the business, the better your screening process gets. Rather than a lengthy detailed written contract, I'd rather just sift out the a-holes.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


How do you screen a customer from hiring a plumber to install a new sink on the same day you plan to paint their kitchen? Happened to me in the fall.

Everyone should have something like this in their contract. 

*CUSTOMER RESPONSIBILITY:*

Please take specific note of job description.
Please have all colors chosen one (1) week prior to start date. Additional costs may be charged for color changes made after commencement of work.
Please have fragile or breakable items and electronics moved out of work areas prior to start of project or additional charges may be incurred
Please have all alarms turned off while work is in progress.

*ACCESS TO THE JOB SITE:*

Customer agrees and understands that they must provided access to the jobsite, between the hours of; 8 a.m. and 5 p.m., Monday through Friday, for the duration of this job.
Customer agrees not to postpone, or interrupt the 5 day work schedule, for any reason, causing delay to the timely completion of this job or additional charges may be incurred.

*My favorite line:* THIS IS A LEGALLY BINDING AGREEMENT


----------



## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

These types of customers I call "Under the Thumb" people. They are "controllers." They want you "under their thumb" til the project is over. They can control you which gives them some sort of power that they normally wouldn't have. They treat you like employees. It sucks, it really does. And these are the type of people you DON'T want giving your name and number out to friends.


----------



## HC-Raad (Jan 26, 2017)

Gymschu said:


> These types of customers I call "Under the Thumb" people. They are "controllers." They want you "under their thumb" til the project is over. They can control you which gives them some sort of power that they normally wouldn't have. They treat you like employees. It sucks, it really does. And these are the type of people you DON'T want giving your name and number out to friends.


NO, no no! Not with this in your contract:

*Independent Contractor Rules*

We have the right to work without direction according to our own processes, methods and plans; we the contractor are not subject to another's control except for what is specified in a mutually binding agreement for a specific job.


----------



## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

Many of my customers are elderly, or female. I can only imagine them attempting to remove valances, blinds and brackets, wall mounted televisions, desks with shelves screwed to the wall, etc. What I can't imagine is them hiring somebody else to do all this prior to my painting. I guess it could happen, but I am not going to count on it.

I just figure the cost for the time for me to deal with these painting obstacles, and include it in my bid. Do I like having to remove and remount these items? Heck no, but it is part of the job, and as others have said, demanding that these things are out of my way prior to painting would probably eliminate me from consideration as a painter for them. I think my ability and willingness to deal with this aspect is a selling point. And I have worked in homes where the homeowners attempted to remove things, and they caused more problems for me than time saved.


----------



## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

slinger58 said:


> Telling the painters to leave for 3 hours while the baby slept is what landed them on what Gough refers to as the "fecal roster".
> 
> The longer you're in the business, the better your screening process gets. Rather than a lengthy detailed written contract, I'd rather just sift out the a-holes.
> 
> ...




I agree with you. With this caveat; 

If a contractor I hired was taking longer than expected to complete a job, and inconvenienced me for an extra day with no change of the scope of work or explanation, I might just ask them to leave for a baby nap. 

Not saying that's the case with the OP, just spit balling. 

To the OP I would ask; 

Did the customer clearly understand their responsibilities under the scope of work? 

Was there a time frame stipulated in the scope of work? 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jprefect (Mar 4, 2015)

Jmayspaint said:


> I always find it interesting to see other companies policies on moving furniture, wall hangings, etc.. I know several posters here have detailed contract stipulations about the customer's responsibility as far as preparing the space for painting.
> 
> I've always offered full service interior painting. We move and cover all furniture, remove all wall hangings, and put everything back when we're done as a matter of course. It's just part of the deal.
> 
> ...


A good site visit, and some consideration in your contract is absolutely half of this equation! For my part, I specify in the contract whether a space is unoccupied or occupied. If it is unoccupied, I ask for keyed access, and price accordingly. If it is occupied I ask for "reasonable access" 8AM-5PM Mon-Fri, with access to utilities (water, electric, and heat) -- and YES I have that in there for a reason - cheap customers who don't run heat and wonder why caulk cracks out!

If it is occupied, additionally, a site visit lets me get a handle on how many pieces of furniture are in a room. It's about an hour per room, with special consideration for big pieces like a piano or a TV mount or something that has to get dissasembled. And, no matter what, I always ask the customer, via contract (Client will move all pictures, personal, fragile, or electronic items.) 

I put moving furniture in with Dust Control, and Post Construction cleanup. Definitely charge for it, account for it, but it's part of full service. (Division 1 "site conditions" for those who follow CSI) 

But as for sending you away that is ****ty - even if you don't have an airtight contract - it's pretty inconsiderate. I hate that attitude, and I've occasionally run into people that want to abuse you. I definitely pick up on it, and would turn down work at this point. I had one guy hire me at T&M to skim coat a ceiling, which I had figured on two guys for a week. He kept bullying me to say whether I'd be done thursday or not, and eventually, feeling good about our progress, I told him we would. Well, when it came back to coming in on Friday, he beat me up on the price (pretended like he didn't understand that I was charging per man-hour, not per crew-hour for both of us. . . . even though it was clear in the agreement) and ultimately left the discussion unresolved for me to deal with his admitedly very sweet wife, but not before giving me a lecture on "why business should be my first priority" or some republican nonsense and being a real chode about it. I ended up giving him friday because I just didn't want to deal with going back to collect the rest. 

But one of those is enough. :vs_no_no_no:


----------



## HC-Raad (Jan 26, 2017)

SemiproJohn said:


> Many of my customers are elderly, or female. I can only imagine them attempting to remove valances, blinds and brackets, *wall mounted televisions*, desks with shelves screwed to the wall, etc. What I can't imagine is them hiring somebody else to do all this prior to my painting. I guess it could happen, but I am not going to count on it.
> 
> I just figure the cost for the time for me to deal with these painting obstacles, and include it in my bid. Do I like having to remove and remount these items? Heck no, but it is part of the job, and as others have said, demanding that these things are out of my way prior to painting would probably eliminate me from consideration as a painter for them. I think my ability and willingness to deal with this aspect is a selling point. And I have worked in homes where the homeowners attempted to remove things, and they caused more problems for me than time saved.


As soon as the TV doesn't work when you reinstall it, those old ladys will be wanting money knocked off the painting price. BTW - your insurance doesn't cover your TV blunder.

These women and old ladys have children. As I stated, I deal with furniture and window treatments. And guess what................... I do it free. :glasses:


----------



## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

jprefect said:


> A good site visit, and some consideration in your contract is absolutely half of this equation! For my part, I specify in the contract whether a space is unoccupied or occupied. If it is unoccupied, I ask for keyed access, and price accordingly. If it is occupied I ask for "reasonable access" 8AM-5PM Mon-Fri, with access to utilities (water, electric, and heat) -- and YES I have that in there for a reason - cheap customers who don't run heat and wonder why caulk cracks out!
> 
> If it is occupied, additionally, a site visit lets me get a handle on how many pieces of furniture are in a room. It's about an hour per room, with special consideration for big pieces like a piano or a TV mount or something that has to get dissasembled. And, no matter what, I always ask the customer, via contract (Client will move all pictures, personal, fragile, or electronic items.)
> 
> ...


Just curious what is ( Republican Nonsense). ??


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

thinkpainting/nick said:


> Just curious what is ( Republican Nonsense). ??


The same thing as democrat nonsense.


----------



## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

I would move furniture generally. If it was an antique piece or a curio cabinet full, the cabinet would have to be emptied. Antique pieces, the owner would sign a waiver. Electronics, the same however, it was the owners responsibility to disconnect and connect all cables.

The part that always got me was moving a piece of furniture or an appliance and finding filth. Moved a fridge once that looked like it had a science project gone bad under it. The owner brings over a broom, dustpan, and mop and bucket. I looked at her and said: "Have at it" and went on to do another part of the job.


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

much of this has to do with the type of clientele your business model is targeting. If your model is chasing Promar 200 and A-100 (and to be fair behr) jobs then this is the kind of thing those clients do. cheap is cheap, and that includes cheap behavior. Sorry to say it but it's true. In my years selling paint i have found that 90% of all pita customers are in the lowest 10% of the price range.

People that are willing to pay for a premium paint and a premium painter expect more of those painters, and are willing to pay for it. People who want the job done cheap expect sometimes even more extras but in no way are willing to pay for it. That's what cheap is. Same as the whole paint and primer and sealer in one concept. They expect that out of what they are buying but aren't willing to pay a premium for it.


----------



## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

Wolfgang said:


> Time to review / re-word your contracts. Spell it all out no matter how common sense it seems.


i concur


----------



## ElegantPainting (Aug 25, 2014)

Our clients have one job; pay as scheduled. We take care of everything else. In my experience, busy families are more than willing to pay more for a 100% hassle free experience. 

Now if your client is actually an unreasonable character, that should have been detected before taking a deposit. 

Also sometimes the client is reacting to an egotistic contractor.


----------



## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

In my experience, most homeowners treat painters like intellectually challenged, special works program participants.


----------



## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

CApainter said:


> In my experience, most homeowners treat painters like intellectually challenged, special works program participants.




That's harsh, man. Really harsh. 

Lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

slinger58 said:


> That's harsh, man. Really harsh.
> 
> Lol
> 
> ...


Hash and totally untrue in my perspective only.


----------



## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

chrisn said:


> Hash and totally untrue in my perspective only.




Yep. However, you may want to fix that typo while you can. Some old dude from the 60's or 70's might get the wrong idea. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

:devil3:Lebanese Blonde and totally untrue in my perspective only.

There, I fixed it for him.


----------



## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Sophisticates don't last long in this trade. Homeowners despise know it all painters. Especially loud ones with lengthy stories about themselves.


----------



## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

CApainter said:


> Sophisticates don't last long in this trade. Homeowners despise know it all painters. Especially loud ones with lengthy stories about themselves.




Well butter my ass and call me a biscuit. Now you're telling me I'm not sophisticated?! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

What's worse is getting into a color coordinating pissing match with a self appointed interior decorating homeowner. They're absolutely the worst. No win situation. Give up and apply what they want while cramming your tail between your legs. Yes mam! Yes mam!


----------



## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

CApainter said:


> Sophisticates don't last long in this trade. Homeowners despise know it all painters. Especially loud ones with lengthy stories about themselves.


I don't think all homeowners despise us. 

I do think having life experience that comes with years, an education, and a knack for interpersonal relationships (the ability to communicate, to listen well before responding) goes a long way when dealing with people inside of their homes.

I don't assume I will be treated poorly or greatly, and I adjust to each individual customer. Impression management. 

I think that, perhaps, interior residential painting is honestly a hassle to both the painter and a new customer. Both parties are sort of forced into a temporary relationship, where normally the two would never meet.

Neil Peart stated it so eloquently: "I can't pretend a stranger is a long-awaited friend." In a better light, I have found that repeat customers look forward to our re-acquaintance.


----------



## loaded brush (Dec 27, 2007)

I'll move furniture, remove window treatments. Wall mounted tvs uh-uh. Way too many connections I don't want to be liable for so those who don't remove it, I'll just paint behind it where I can get within an inch or two of the bracket. I love the ones and that when you are done with the job they tell you will mail you the check. Of course have to remind them the contract they signed states full balance due day of upon completion. Finished a job once and called out for the H O, she said " I'm in here" so I walked into the living room and she was breastfeeding .......and was not discreet about it. In my state of shock I said "Got Milk". No I didn't. But I wanted to. She proceeded to tell me that they'll mail the check because her husband was sleeping and didn't want to wake him. First is all, I was not aware he was home. So I'm thinking, great, not the scenario I wanna be in if he walks in. Secondly I politely reminded her that payment was due upon day of completions and would really appreciate if she could wake her husband to write the check. Don't ask me why she couldn't write it, I have no clue. As she handed me the check I thought to myself I'll never work for those boobs again, and I meant all four of them. 

IND-031-03


----------



## Painting Practice (Jul 21, 2013)

I usually avoid heavy lifting because I work alone. If they make an unusual request to move something heavy I look at them like they are crazy and if its delicate I just say my liability doesn't cover it. The other day however I was with a very good customer and I told him I'd remove the toilet. When I did I wrenched my back...


----------



## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

wudshapr said:


> I usually avoid heavy lifting because I work alone. If they make an unusual request to move something heavy I look at them like they are crazy and if its delicate I just say my liability doesn't cover it. The other day however I was with a very good customer and I told him I'd remove the toilet. When I did I wrenched my back...


 
Illegal here in MD without a plumbers license


----------



## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

slinger58 said:


> Yep. However, you may want to fix that typo while you can. Some old dude from the 60's or 70's might get the wrong idea.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Too late:vs_laugh:


----------



## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

SemiproJohn said:


> I don't think all homeowners despise us.
> 
> I do think having life experience that comes with years, an education, and a knack for interpersonal relationships (the ability to communicate, to listen well before responding) goes a long way when dealing with people inside of their homes.
> 
> ...


Good point!

With roughly forty years of painting under my belt, and half of that working on residentials before getting into commercial and industrial painting, I found being humble, knowing my place, and being committed to doing a good job, carried me through some of the worst homeowners you could encounter. In a way, this applied to my employers also.

But in all of those years, I've seen little improvement in the way homeowners, professionals, tradesmen, and even my own peers, view the painting industry in general. In my opinion, it is still one of the few, if not the only trade in the building/construction industry, modeled for the DIY, or the low skilled worker entering the work force, looking for a self employment opportunity. The latter option being the most optimal next to government employment or union membership.

And if I seem to be disparaging the trade, I'm really not. Painting HAS been good to me. And, I will continue, God willing, for many more years to come. I'm just making the point that it's helped me to adjust my attitude to the non painting population rather than trying to change their attitude to suit my butt hurt ego.


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Now that you mention it i have had some idiot clients through the years. A couple in particular come to mind. Like the guy who used PM400 semigloss on exterior trim on a new build apartment complex because it was cheaper then what we were trying to sell him.(PPG Sunproof) The pm 400 was half the price. So he used it on the exterior trim on a 300 unit new build apartment complex. With bullseye 123 as a primer. Didn't make it to the first apartment rental before it was peeling. Then he actually tried to claim it was a PPG product because SW told him to f-off. I told him we would need to see his receipts. LOL!


----------



## The Good Life 402 (Apr 5, 2017)

They didn't offer you coffee ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


----------



## The Good Life 402 (Apr 5, 2017)

ElegantPainting said:


> Our clients have one job; pay as scheduled. We take care of everything else. In my experience, busy families are more than willing to pay more for a 100% hassle free experience.
> 
> Now if your client is actually an unreasonable character, that should have been detected before taking a deposit.
> 
> Also sometimes the client is reacting to an egotistic contractor.


I LOVE THIS ! especially the first line. There should be enough money in the bid to cover for things like this. When that is the case you are being paid pretty well to move furniture or pictures, kids, cats, dogs etc. It shouldn't be like you are losing money on anything like that. If it were costing me money it would be STRESSFUL but i always add to the bid for the unforeseen. If i bid a 250.00 job for 250.00 i would be stressed about small "time consuming" things. Even at a minimalist level. As a practice i always offer myself or my guys if someone is carrying in groceries or need something moved etc. its stuff like that, that gets you referred. Get to where that is not "costing you money" if that wording even makes sense. Bid for the unforeseen 9 times out of 10 it will surface and your already covered  The other 1 time it doesn't consider it a tip


----------



## The Good Life 402 (Apr 5, 2017)

PACman said:


> In my years selling paint i have found that 90% of all pita customers are in the lowest 10% of the price range.


Would you define "pita" customer please ?


----------



## The Good Life 402 (Apr 5, 2017)

slinger58 said:


> that's harsh, man. Really harsh.
> 
> Lol
> 
> ...


gee....i wonder why ?


----------



## The Good Life 402 (Apr 5, 2017)

SemiproJohn said:


> I don't think all homeowners despise us.
> 
> I do think having life experience that comes with years, an education, and a knack for interpersonal relationships (the ability to communicate, to listen well before responding) goes a long way when dealing with people inside of their homes.
> 
> ...


Very well said


----------



## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

The Good Life 402 said:


> Would you define "pita" customer please ?




"Pita" = pain in the ass.👨*


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## The Good Life 402 (Apr 5, 2017)

jmayspaint said:


> i always find it interesting to see other companies policies on moving furniture, wall hangings, etc.. I know several posters here have detailed contract stipulations about the customer's responsibility as far as preparing the space for painting.
> 
> I've always offered full service interior painting. We move and cover all furniture, remove all wall hangings, and put everything back when we're done as a matter of course. It's just part of the deal.
> 
> ...


samesies


----------



## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

The Good Life 402 said:


> gee....i wonder why ?




Damn if I know. I logged into this forum looking for answers. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Back in the 80's, it was the yuppy thirtysomething home owners who were making fortunes in the savings and loans industry, or selling cocaine on the side, that were the biggest PITA's. Now, it's the thirty something techno moguls who use public transportation to access their multi billion dollar social media companies.


----------



## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

slinger58 said:


> Well butter my ass and call me a biscuit. Now you're telling me I'm not sophisticated?!


Quote of the week.:biggrin:^^^^^^^^

Post of the week:

"I don't think all homeowners despise us. 

I do think having life experience that comes with years, an education, and a knack for interpersonal relationships (the ability to communicate, to listen well before responding) goes a long way when dealing with people inside of their homes.

I don't assume I will be treated poorly or greatly, and I adjust to each individual customer. Impression management. 

I think that, perhaps, interior residential painting is honestly a hassle to both the painter and a new customer. Both parties are sort of forced into a temporary relationship, where normally the two would never meet.

Neil Peart stated it so eloquently: "I can't pretend a stranger is a long-awaited friend." In a better light, I have found that repeat customers look forward to our re-acquaintance." --SemiproJohn

Post of the Week.......Impression management.......gets the nod.


----------



## HC-Raad (Jan 26, 2017)

slinger58 said:


> Well butter my ass and call me a biscuit. Now you're telling me I'm not sophisticated?!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If you think you can butter that hair thing up, and call it something delightful to eat, you are not sophisticated by my standards. :vs_no_no_no: :wink:


----------



## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

HC-Raad said:


> If you think you can butter that hair thing up, and call it something delightful to eat, you are not sophisticated by my standards. :vs_no_no_no: :wink:




Just PTing on a glorious Friday afternoon, HC. 

But now several years ago I did go see the Jackson Symphony Orchestra. 

Of course Ricky Skaggs and Kentucky Thunder was performing there also, so there's that. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HC-Raad (Jan 26, 2017)

Gymschu said:


> Quote of the week.:biggrin:^^^^^^^^
> 
> I think that, perhaps, interior residential painting is honestly a hassle to both the painter and a new customer. Both parties are sort of forced into a temporary relationship, where normally the two would never meet.


What we have to realize in a contractor to homeowner business relationship is:
The contractor has much more experience working in peoples home vs., the homeowner having much, much less experience having contractors in their home.

So the customer is inexperienced. They don't know what to expect, what is fair or how to conduct their selves in many ways. 

Even giving estimates - the customer doesn't know what we need to calculate costs or how to go about conducting themselves while we are giving the in home estimate. Very often while I am taking measurements and writing info down, they are talking and causing me to lose concentration.

Often they ask how long will this paint job take, long before I have even seen the complete scope of work. 

Then their are the customers that think, at a blink of an eye, you can be there starting their project. 

I often tell customers that I am a painter with 1 helper. They usually say, "is that it"? Even if I had 10 painters working for me, I would have 2 painters on one job, 3 on another job, 1 on another job, according to the size and work flow, etc. It's almost like they believe 8 painters are needed to paint 3 rooms in their house. People have no clue.


----------



## getrex (Feb 13, 2017)

We had a client with a fairly large home change her mind on the paint twice, after we had already painted everything. The first time she changed it was after we second coated. And after 5-6 coats of paint and an extra week of labor she and her husband balked at the bill because they expected that the extra coats would be free as a part of the job. Fortunately we were the subcontractor and we didn't have to fight them for the money.


----------



## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

"Butter my ass" caught my attention.......mainly because I'm working a rare NC job and a buddy of mine is doing the exterior brick work. I'm painting one of the bedrooms when I hear a persistent tapping on the window. I ignore it. It continues. I look up and see a "hairy ass moon" butt shot from my buddy who thought it was funny dropping his pants and sticking his butt against the window. Happy that I'm not cleaning the windows on this house...........


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Gymschu said:


> "Butter my ass" caught my attention.......mainly because I'm working a rare NC job and a buddy of mine is doing the exterior brick work. I'm painting one of the bedrooms when I hear a persistent tapping on the window. I ignore it. It continues. I look up and see a "hairy ass moon" butt shot from my buddy who thought it was funny dropping his pants and sticking his butt against the window. Happy that I'm not cleaning the windows on this house...........


You think that's bad! About 30 years ago myself and a bunch of buddies were at an outdoor concert and one of their girlfriends thought it would be funny to take a picture of us all mooning. Everything was fine until 5 of the 7 of us decided to spontaneously.......defecate. Classy photo.


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

another thread gone to crap.


----------



## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

You're killing me with the "visuals" today, PAC!


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Gymschu said:


> You're killing me with the "visuals" today, PAC!


I have that photo on my fridge.


----------



## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

PACman said:


> You think that's bad! About 30 years ago myself and a bunch of buddies were at an outdoor concert and one of their girlfriends thought it would be funny to take a picture of us all mooning. Everything was fine until 5 of the 7 of us decided to spontaneously.......defecate. Classy photo.


You obviously ran with a classy crowd.


----------



## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

HC-Raad said:


> What we have to realize in a contractor to homeowner business relationship is:
> The contractor has much more experience working in peoples home vs., the homeowner having much, much less experience having contractors in their home.
> 
> So the customer is inexperienced. They don't know what to expect, what is fair or how to conduct their selves in many ways.
> ...


Yesterday I just got done shaking hands with HO both husband and wife. Walk through just began, they want whole first floor painted , walls , trims, ceilings, wallpaper removed , furniture moved etc. I'm there 5 minutes and they say :vs_whistle: can you give us a ballpark on price and can you start this week:vs_coffee:


----------



## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

thinkpainting/nick said:


> Yesterday I just got done shaking hands with HO both husband and wife. Walk through just began, they want whole first floor painted , walls , trims, ceilings, wallpaper removed , furniture moved etc. I'm there 5 minutes and they say :vs_whistle: can you give us a ballpark on price and can you start this week:vs_coffee:


After all my years painting I can never get used to these calls. We had a few yesterday same thing. We did ask in the first phone call the time frame only to be asked to start next week. Sorry no we can't.


----------



## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

It is an interesting phenomenon how you'll get calls every week from people needing things done immediately. Yet, if you have a job get unexpectedly delay those calls stop. 

Last week I had a job get delayed because of a major roof leak for the last three days of this week. Every call since then has time tables past them and everyone else can't be pulled forward because of some reason or another. I give up, if you need to find me I'll be on the golf course Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday. 

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk


----------



## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Been working for two days for one of the worst customers in a long long time. I knew from the day I met them I should have run away and I didn't.

Big flat screen tv on a stand 4" away from the wall and the wife says....

"Does the TV have to get moved?"

Tomorrow I'm starting in the kitchen and I'm 100% sure they aren't going to have emptied the big china cabinet filled with 4 billion little glass pieces even though I've told them I'm not doing it.


----------



## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Been working for two days for one of the worst customers in a long long time. I knew from the day I met them I should have run away and I didn't.
> 
> Big flat screen tv on a stand 4" away from the wall and the wife says....
> 
> ...


And, Wildbill, you know very well if you agreed NOT to move the TV, that the first thing the HO's would say to someone would be, "He just painted around the TV, didn't bother to move it, how unprofessional!"


----------



## getrex (Feb 13, 2017)

People suck in general. Right? ...


----------



## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

At the end of the day, people are variables. Some are gonna be great, some are gonna be horrible to deal with. Some are gonna go from great to horrible, and the other way around.

Sometimes I just love the jobs where the real estate guy sends you a text with an address, you go paint and there's a cheque waiting for you at his office when you're done. Only person you need to deal with is the teller at the bank and the girls at the paint shop.

It is nice to have a place like PT though to come and whine about it to people who've gone through the same type of situations.

My wife's a florist and if you think we've got horror stories...


----------



## getrex (Feb 13, 2017)

I have a rose bush in the middle of my front yard and it's been a thorn in my side ever since I got here.


----------



## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

getrex said:


> People suck in general. Right? ...


Maybe not all people suck as much as just those who get sucked into the competitive nature that drives our pursuit of so called success and happiness in a modern society. Where everything is a competition. From the education people receive, the vocations they practice, the positions they hold, the money they make, the cars they drive, the bullsh!t bling they possess, to the most they can pry from a service while paying the least, just so they can brag to their BFF at Palates.

And for all that effort, generally speaking, the reward is little more than a false sense of power. And there inlies the dilusion of today's working class.

It's all the fault of the Kardashians IMO.


----------



## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

CApainter said:


> Maybe not all people suck as much as just those who get sucked into the competitive nature that drives our pursuit of so called success and happiness in a modern society. Where everything is a competition. From the education people receive, the vocations they practice, the positions they hold, the money they make, the cars they drive, the bullsh!t bling they possess, to the most they can pry from a service while paying the least, just so they can brag to their BFF at Palates.
> 
> And for all that effort, generally speaking, the reward is little more than a false sense of power. And there inlies the dilusion of today's working class.
> 
> It's all the fault of the Kardashians IMO.


It's all the people that watch the Kardashians, if they had been completely ignored to begin with the world would be a better place.


----------



## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

I know we can get to complaining about customers on here ad nauseam, but truthfully, most people are pretty cool. I mean, I couldn't have stayed in business for almost 40 years if everyone was a PITA. I like most people and even the "grumps" present an interesting challenge as you try to please them as best you can. It's those "relentless bad apples" that give human kind a bad name.


----------



## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

CApainter said:


> Maybe not all people suck as much as just those who get sucked into the competitive nature that drives our pursuit of so called success and happiness in a modern society. Where everything is a competition. From the education people receive, the vocations they practice, the positions they hold, the money they make, the cars they drive, the bullsh!t bling they possess, to the most they can pry from a service while paying the least, just so they can brag to their BFF at Palates.
> 
> And for all that effort, generally speaking, the reward is little more than a false sense of power. And there inlies the dilusion of today's working class.
> 
> It's all the fault of the Kardashians IMO.


Or, maybe most people are basically decent while a few are assholes - plain and simple.


----------



## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

The phenomena of dual incomes have also contributed to the pretentious disposition of homeowners who think that six figures on their family ledgers, entitles them to belittle and cheapen the value of the general service provider. Yet, they'll readily pay top dollar for a questionable sports figure's jersey, or the latest techno gadget that accompanies a social media app allowing them to upload a selfie wearing said jersey at a trendy sports bar while drinking one of a hundred thousand overrated "small batch" micro brews.


----------



## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

RH said:


> Or, maybe most people are basically decent while a few are assholes - plain and simple.


If commuter driving habits are a reliable indicator of any decency in the heart of men, I would have to disagree with your theory.


----------



## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

chrisn said:


> It's all the people that watch the Kardashians, if they had been completely ignored to begin with the world would be a better place.




Can I get an Amen?! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

CApainter said:


> The phenomena of dual incomes have also contributed to the pretentious disposition of homeowners who think that six figures on their family ledgers, entitles them to belittle and cheapen the value of the general service provider. Yet, they'll readily pay top dollar for a questionable sports figure's jersey, or the latest techno gadget that accompanies a social media app allowing them to upload a selfie wearing said jersey at a trendy sports bar while drinking one of a hundred thousand overrated "small batch" micro brews.


I feel compelled, once again, to pay homage to your writing style. Well said! 


:notworthy::thumbup:


----------



## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

slinger58 said:


> Can I get an Amen?!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Amen!


----------



## HC-Raad (Jan 26, 2017)

CApainter said:


> The phenomena of dual incomes have also contributed to the pretentious disposition of homeowners who think that six figures on their family ledgers, entitles them to belittle and cheapen the value of the general service provider. Yet, they'll readily pay top dollar for a questionable sports figure's jersey, or the latest techno gadget that accompanies a social media app allowing them to upload a selfie wearing said jersey at a trendy sports bar while drinking one of a hundred thousand overrated "small batch" micro brews.


I can, with a maladjusted mindset, fully understand the demoralizing endeavors of the stereo typical bureaucracy, of most grossly wealthy clients. The costs of and/or perpetuating redundancies of the free estimate, are a catastrophic endeavor on our behalf at a disproportionate fraction of their intentions based on their liquidated, financial resources. It sucks for most painters.


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> The phenomena of dual incomes have also contributed to the pretentious disposition of homeowners who think that six figures on their family ledgers, entitles them to belittle and cheapen the value of the general service provider. Yet, they'll readily pay top dollar for a questionable sports figure's jersey, or the latest techno gadget that accompanies a social media app allowing them to upload a selfie wearing said jersey at a trendy sports bar while drinking one of a hundred thousand overrated "small batch" micro brews.


"small batch" microbrews that are brewed somewhere other than a microbrewery you mean? Like the ones brewed by AB with that microbrewerys custom label stuck on? 

Most microbrews suck nowadays.


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

wow, you people talk purdy!


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

"I bought these 20-1 gallon cans offline. Will you tint it for me? It isn't the right color."
"no. I don't tint anything i didn't sell."
"but i paid almost $100 a gallon and i don't want to lose my money!"
"then you need to get ahold of the people who tinted it for you and see what they will do."
"they said I would have to ship it back at my expense!"
"yup."

Customer storms out in a huff pissed off at me!
Because i refuse to enable the online paint stores!
THEY screwed it up. THEY should fix it! If THEY don't then THEY screwed YOU!


----------



## Eagle Cap Painter (Nov 14, 2016)

Dumb enough to pay 100/gal online means they would've paid at least a few hundred bucks for you to fix the tint. Sounds like you missed a good opportunity to let the screwup online retailer make you some easy money.


----------



## getrex (Feb 13, 2017)

But then they might try to make him liable for something they do with the paint.


----------



## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

HC-Raad said:


> I can, with a maladjusted mindset, fully understand the demoralizing endeavors of the stereo typical bureaucracy, of most grossly wealthy clients. The costs of and/or perpetuating redundancies of the free estimate, are a catastrophic endeavor on our behalf at a disproportionate fraction of their intentions based on their liquidated, financial resources. It sucks for most painters.


Is a family really considered "grossly wealthy" just because a working class couple decides to draw dual incomes in order to sustain the resources that are necessary to maintain a level of consumption typically reserved for the affluent? I mean, before the lease options became so easily available for moderate income earners to own luxury vehicles, had you ever seen so many BMW's, Mercedes, or Cadillac SUV's cutting each other off in the numbers there are today? 

Meanwhile, the latch key kids of these financial planning geniuses are happily enjoying the risks and mischief associated with being left home alone while their supposed guardians, (in their wagon wheeled SUV's no less), are tailgating that humble single income earner in his mini van during the treacherous evening commute.


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Eagle Cap Painter said:


> Dumb enough to pay 100/gal online means they would've paid at least a few hundred bucks for you to fix the tint. Sounds like you missed a good opportunity to let the screwup online retailer make you some easy money.


But, if i screw it up what happens? I pay to fix a product i didn't sell in the first place! Imagine you have a hotdog stand. Someone buys a hotdog from the guy across the street because it is a nickel less then what you are charging and brings it over to you because the other guy is out of ketchup. Then they find out the hotdog isn't cooked and expect YOU to replace it because it is YOUR ketchup on it! It's kind of like that.


----------



## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

PACman said:


> But, if i screw it up what happens? I pay to fix a product i didn't sell in the first place! Imagine you have a hotdog stand. Someone buys a hotdog from the guy across the street because it is a nickel less then what you are charging and brings it over to you because the other guy is out of ketchup. Then they find out the hotdog isn't cooked and expect YOU to replace it because it is YOUR ketchup on it! It's kind of like that.




I'm curious what kind of tints you use? The old glycol based stuff like Sherwin and most others still use? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Jmayspaint said:


> I'm curious what kind of tints you use? The old glycol based stuff like Sherwin and most others still use?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I use California Trillion which is 0 voc, 0 glycol similar to Gennex but much stronger and P&L colorants that are low voc and low glycol. Since i opened in 2014 i didn't get started with the old glycol based colorants and started out with the two that i have.


----------



## AngieM (Apr 13, 2016)

The thing I love about being self employed is I get to choose my customers. When I do an estimate, I'm interviewing THEM fishing around for any hint of PITA tendency they may exhibit. I take all factors into consideration when coming up with my price for the job 🤣

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk


----------



## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

AngieM said:


> The thing I love about being self employed is I get to choose my customers. When I do an estimate, I'm interviewing THEM fishing around for any hint of PITA tendency they may exhibit. I take all factors into consideration when coming up with my price for the job 🤣
> 
> Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk


You've got a good handle on things Angie. I did the same. As I got older it occurred to me that even charging more for the PITA factor wasn't worth it. Even those jobs with great customers could have a few hiccups.


----------



## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

PACman said:


> I use California Trillion which is 0 voc, 0 glycol similar to Gennex but much stronger and P&L colorants that are low voc and low glycol. Since i opened in 2014 i didn't get started with the old glycol based colorants and started out with the two that i have.




Now that you mention it, I remember you talking about that before.

So, are the Trillion colorants only compatible with California paints? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Jmayspaint said:


> Now that you mention it, I remember you talking about that before.
> 
> So, are the Trillion colorants only compatible with California paints?
> 
> ...


supposedly. But my personal belief after 30+ years is that you only get the maximum performance from them when they are used in the California product line. The reason being that due to the extra "strength" of the Trillion colorants California uses more TiO2 than most manufacturers do. The stronger pigments can overcome the white of the TiO2 better then the lesser strength colorants. This actually doubles down on the hide capability of their paints. Conversely, when you use the Trillion colorants you can get much cleaner, less gray light pastel colors then you can with traditional colorants. For example there are many pastel colors that SW simply cannot match with any accuracy. The problem isn't just the colorants but the fact that they use lessor grade and a lower percentage of TiO2 in their paints, which tends to make the pastel colors grayer or "muddier".


----------



## getrex (Feb 13, 2017)

Good to know, thanks!


----------



## kmp (Jan 30, 2011)

PACman said:


> supposedly. But my personal belief after 30+ years is that you only get the maximum performance from them when they are used in the California product line. The reason being that due to the extra "strength" of the Trillion colorants California uses more TiO2 than most manufacturers do. The stronger pigments can overcome the white of the TiO2 better then the lesser strength colorants. This actually doubles down on the hide capability of their paints. Conversely, when you use the Trillion colorants you can get much cleaner, less gray light pastel colors then you can with traditional colorants. For example there are many pastel colors that SW simply cannot match with any accuracy. The problem isn't just the colorants but the fact that they use lessor grade and a lower percentage of TiO2 in their paints, which tends to make the pastel colors grayer or "muddier".


Isn't it true that Ti02 when processed is pretty gray and they bleach it,not really bleach it but whiten it in some way?


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

kmp said:


> Isn't it true that Ti02 when processed is pretty gray and they bleach it,not really bleach it but whiten it in some way?


Lower grade TiO2 gets processed to make it whiter, but they have a tendency to yellow or discolor over time. There is a particular material i posted about a few months (?) ago called lithopone i think that is commonly used as a "whitener" for TiO2. TiO2 is actually graded according to it's whiteness and consistency among other things. Real unprocessed high grade pure white TiO2 can cost as much as 4 times per pound as lower grade TiO2 and that is why most paint companies try to avoid it. It does add greatly to the overall paint quality though.


----------

