# Single fireplace mantle.



## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Thoughts. I have a job starting on Tuesday. I'm going to spray out a detailed fireplace mantle,
plus 1 little window frame thing, but will probably just brush that one.
Would like this to be a 1 or 1.5 day process. Not 3..
Was considering using Aura Semigloss, as it has a 1 hr. Recoat time and great covering power. (Extreme colour change. )Will prime with something like Stix or fresh start first.
I haven't used Aura much on trim, but should be fine eh?? Or other options 🤔?


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## monarchski (Jun 21, 2019)

I haven't used the S/G but the other sheens dry too fast IMO to do any brushing on trim.


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## Masterwork (Sep 13, 2020)

Oil primer! Don't want any wood bleeding through. Aura would be fine on top.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Masterwork said:


> Oil primer! Don't want any wood bleeding through. Aura would be fine on top.


Do you think you'll get bleed through on varnished wood?


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## Masterwork (Sep 13, 2020)

If you sand through it by accident.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

freshstart 217 undercoater + cabinetcoat


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> freshstart 217 undercoater + cabinetcoat


Would rather not use an oil. There's a solid coat of Varnish on there that I don't plan on burning through. Plus its in a little old lady's house and ill be spraying.. Although this may be a good time tobtry the cabinet coat. 6hr. Recoat though is only problem.. and your 217 is 24hrs..


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Would rather not use an oil. There's a solid coat of Varnish on there that I don't plan on burning through. Plus its in a little old lady's house and ill be spraying.. Although this may be a good time tobtry the cabinet coat. 6hr. Recoat though is only problem.. and your 217 is 24hrs..


If you're not terribly worried about bleed through stix or fresh start 046 is fine. Keep a rattle can of coverstain handy though


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> If you're not terribly worried about bleed through stix or fresh start 046 is fine. Keep a rattle can of coverstain handy though


 How is the coverage with CC compared to Advance. Reason I was thinking Aura is for coverage and recoat times. Do you think Aura is not a good option?


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

finishesbykevyn said:


> How is the coverage with CC compared to Advance. Reason I was thinking Aura is for coverage and recoat times. Do you think Aura is not a good option?


CC great coverage, superior to advance. Cabinetcoat cures much harder and faster than Aura would be the main reason.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> CC great coverage, superior to advance. Cabinetcoat cures much harder and faster than Aura would be the main reason.


 Those are good reasons. The 6 hr recoat kills me. Theoretically I suppose I could skip the primer with CC, but would I get 2 coat coverage is the question. White over a dark stain..


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Those are good reasons. The 6 hr recoat kills me. Theoretically I suppose I could skip the primer with CC, but would I get 2 coat coverage is the question. White over a dark stain..


surprised you're not shooting BIN... Isn't that your modus operandi?
You could even roll it and sand it if fumes are an issue.

(pics or it didn't happen)


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## Masterwork (Sep 13, 2020)

Rolling BIN doesn't stop the fumes. I'd want to turn off the pilot light in that fireplace, for sure.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Those are good reasons. The 6 hr recoat kills me. Theoretically I suppose I could skip the primer with CC, but would I get 2 coat coverage is the question. White over a dark stain..


If you can get general finishes... maybe use their waterborne stain blocking primer and white poly.


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## Masterwork (Sep 13, 2020)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Would rather not use an oil. There's a solid coat of Varnish on there that I don't plan on burning through. Plus its in a little old lady's house and ill be spraying.. Although this may be a good time tobtry the cabinet coat. 6hr. Recoat though is only problem.. and your 217 is 24hrs..







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Multi-Purpose Interior Oil-Based Primer - Sherwin-Williams


An exceptional whole-house primer that really does live up to its functional name.




www.sherwin-williams.com





1 hour recoat time. And it's sandable to a powder.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Masterwork said:


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1 hr. Recoat is darn good. How is the adhesion? I'm very weary of primers that aren't adhesion specific.


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## Masterwork (Sep 13, 2020)

It's quite good. And doesn't smell as bad as you'd expect.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

This GF primer is really excellent and good adhesion. Its an epoxy resin base. Sands good too.








Stain Blocking Primer: Water Based | General Finishes


Water-based stain-blocking primer for interior projects. Use to protect pigmented finishes from stain, dye and wood tannin bleed-through. Brush or spray on.




generalfinishes.com


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

FRESH START ALL-PURPOSE OIL BASED PRIMER C085..it’s an MPI approved bonding primer and can be recoated in 3 hrs. It’s also a stain & tannin blocking primer.


https://media.benjaminmoore.com/Web...asheets/TDS_C085/20190501 C085 TDS US OKF.pdf


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Redux said:


> FRESH START ALL-PURPOSE OIL BASED PRIMER C085..it’s an MPI approved bonding primer and can be recoated in 3 hrs. It’s also a stain & tannin blocking primer.
> 
> 
> https://media.benjaminmoore.com/WebServices/prod/assets/production/datasheets/TDS_C085/20190501 C085 TDS US OKF.pdf


I don't believe that product is available everywhere yet. I think I would reach for primelock plus for an fast dry oil


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> I don't believe that product is available everywhere yet. I think I would reach for primelock plus for an fast dry oil


I haven’t tried it but it looks better on paper than the C085 and is also an MPI approved bonding primer.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Redux said:


> I haven’t tried it but it looks better on paper than the C085 and is also an MPI approved bonding primer.


My only complaint is that it sticks to the bottom of the can if it has been sitting on the shelf longer than 6 months. If you scrape the bottom then it mixes fine.


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## monarchski (Jun 21, 2019)

Masterwork said:


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Sounds like Zinnser Coverstain primer, only more expensive.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> This GF primer is really excellent and good adhesion. Its an epoxy resin base. Sands good too.
> 
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Unfortunately getting General Finishes to NL is not easy. Looking into it actually..


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Holland said:


> surprised you're not shooting BIN... Isn't that your modus operandi?
> You could even roll it and sand it if fumes are an issue.
> 
> (pics or it didn't happen)


I was hoping to spray everything with an airless. I wont run BIN through my airless. Don't have a portable hvlp and wouldn't want to spray it in a clients house.
All the same, everyone in town is out of BIN! There's a shortage or something. Anyone else notice that.? BIN calling around town trying to stock up. What about INSLX Seal lock? How would that compare?


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

finishesbykevyn said:


> I was hoping to spray everything with an airless. I wont run BIN through my airless. Don't have a portable hvlp and wouldn't want to spray it in a clients house.
> All the same, everyone in town is out of BIN! There's a shortage or something. Anyone else notice that.? BIN calling around town trying to stock up. What about INSLX Seal lock? How would that compare?


seems like every few years there's a shortage of shellac - it does come from bugs after all!


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

finishesbykevyn said:


> I was hoping to spray everything with an airless. I wont run BIN through my airless. Don't have a portable hvlp and wouldn't want to spray it in a clients house.
> All the same, everyone in town is out of BIN! There's a shortage or something. Anyone else notice that.? BIN calling around town trying to stock up. What about INSLX Seal lock? How would that compare?


Since March it's been spotty getting Bin here. Sometimes I really have to hunt and sometimes the shelves are loaded, there's no rhyme or reason. A few weeks back I wanted Lowes to pint it to P1 and they looked at me like I had 3 heads and didn't know how. Since then I've switched to SW Pigmented Shellac which solved both my sourcing issues and they know how to tint it.


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

finishesbykevyn said:


> I was hoping to spray everything with an airless. I wont run BIN through my airless. Don't have a portable hvlp and wouldn't want to spray it in a clients house.
> All the same, everyone in town is out of BIN! There's a shortage or something. Anyone else notice that.? BIN calling around town trying to stock up. What about INSLX Seal lock? How would that compare?


Seal Lock shouldn’t be used under finishes containing oxygenated solvents such as glycol ethers (i.e. Breakthrough) due to the potential for crazing and support induced discoloration/bleed through, yet shellac really shouldn’t be used either, hence the crazing and bleed-thru issues that some members here experience. It also shouldn’t be used under finishes containing aromatic hydrocarbons. The only benefit I see over shellac is that it is alkaline tolerant under high pH acrylics not containing oxygenated solvents, or when used over high pH substrates. It also can’t be cleaned up with ammonia. I don’t know if the film is as brittle as BIN.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

finishesbykevyn said:


> I was hoping to spray everything with an airless. I wont run BIN through my airless. Don't have a portable hvlp and wouldn't want to spray it in a clients house.
> All the same, everyone in town is out of BIN! There's a shortage or something. Anyone else notice that.? BIN calling around town trying to stock up. What about INSLX Seal lock? How would that compare?





Redux said:


> Seal Lock shouldn’t be used under finishes containing oxygenated solvents such as glycol ethers (i.e. Breakthrough) due to the potential for crazing and support induced discoloration/bleed through, yet shellac really shouldn’t be used either, hence the crazing and bleed-thru issues that some members here experience. It also shouldn’t be used under finishes containing aromatic hydrocarbons. The only benefit I see over shellac is that it is alkaline tolerant under high pH acrylics not containing oxygenated solvents, or when used over high pH substrates. It also can’t be cleaned up with ammonia. I don’t know if the film is as brittle as BIN.


The film is more flexible than BIN, also doesn't sand as nice and also doesn't flow off a brush like BIN. Not as bright white as BIN, more of a neutral off white. It is effective for stain blocking and sealing odors though.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> The film is more flexible than BIN, also doesn't sand as nice and also doesn't flow off a brush like BIN. Not as bright white as BIN, more of a neutral off white. It is effective for stain blocking and sealing odors though.


What about the adhesion.?


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

finishesbykevyn said:


> What about the adhesion.?


seal lock has pretty dang good adhesion


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

Kevyn your job is probably already underway, but have you tried that water-based ( modified urethane?) Smart Prime by Zinsser? It has yet to fail me on tannin bleed, and passes the scratch test within a couple hours. Much more pleasant to spray, especially in a customer's home. I've been using it for cabinets, but have also used it to seal cedar shake and interior trim etc. I've been using Scuff X over top of it but have used Breakthrough and Cabinet coat too.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

fromthenorthwest said:


> Kevyn your job is probably already underway, but have you tried that water-based ( modified urethane?) Smart Prime by Zinsser? It has yet to fail me on tannin bleed, and passes the scratch test within a couple hours. Much more pleasant to spray, especially in a customer's home. I've been using it for cabinets, but have also used it to seal cedar shake and interior trim etc. I've been using Scuff X over top of it but have used Breakthrough and Cabinet coat too.


 Update. I pushed the job off until the New year. Thank gawd. Was to busy anyhow. I have yet to try the smartprime. Not sure if I've even seen it on the shelves around here. Will look into this for sure! I remember you talking about this product. Thanks for the reminder. 2 hr. Recoat is still better than alot of primers..


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Update. I pushed the job off until the New year. Thank gawd. Was to busy anyhow. I have yet to try the smartprime. Not sure if I've even seen it on the shelves around here. Will look into this for sure! I remember you talking about this product. Thanks for the reminder. 2 hr. Recoat is still better than alot of primers..


Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I'm 99% sure SmartPrime and 123plus are the same. 123plus is sold at box stores and SmartPrime is sold at smaller paint stores, my local ppg store has it in stock every now and then.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I'm 99% sure SmartPrime and 123plus are the same. 123plus is sold at box stores and SmartPrime is sold at smaller paint stores, my local ppg store has it in stock every now and then.


Can someone also plz confirm if 123Plus will block Tannins? 

Coverstain will block Tannin bleed, but Bullseye123 will not. Don't know anything about 123Plus.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

fromthenorthwest said:


> Kevyn your job is probably already underway, but have you tried that water-based ( modified urethane?) Smart Prime by Zinsser? It has yet to fail me on tannin bleed, and passes the scratch test within a couple hours. Much more pleasant to spray, especially in a customer's home. I've been using it for cabinets, but have also used it to seal cedar shake and interior trim etc. I've been using Scuff X over top of it but have used Breakthrough and Cabinet coat too.


How does it clean with regards to your sprayer? What are you using, soapy water? Those Hybrids can be tough to remove completely.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Holland said:


> How does it clean with regards to your sprayer? What are you using, soapy water? Those Hybrids can be tough to remove completely.


 I have 2 airless rigs and a conventional hvlp. I mainly spray Advance through the airless. Clean with water only. I try to spray all my primers through the hvlp as to not cross contaminate.
If I do switch products, I'll do a flush with a little dawn and Eco tsp for safety measures..


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## Masterwork (Sep 13, 2020)

Holland said:


> How does it clean with regards to your sprayer? What are you using, soapy water? Those Hybrids can be tough to remove completely.


SW Emerald was a huge pain to clean out of my airless and my hvlp. It took 8 pails of water to clean the airless lol.


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

I'm not sure if smart Prime is the same as 1 2 3 plus. I wouldn't be surprised though. Smart Prime is just what a couple of my Benjamin Moore stores out here sell, so it's what I've been going with. It sure has made my life easier, especially in regards to spraying in a customer's home . But just not having to use oil primer in general is pretty nice even for exterior applications. I know it blocks tannins, not sure about the 1-2-3 though.

On a side note what do you Android users use for Paint Talk these days? It'd be great if I could get the phone to set up notifications so I can stay in the conversation. I seem to forget about paint talk until every Tuesday when the email comes.


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## Masterwork (Sep 13, 2020)

I just use google chrome. I hate notifications. Lol. Hit the "new" button at the top and it shows you what changes since last time.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

fromthenorthwest said:


> I'm not sure if smart Prime is the same as 1 2 3 plus. I wouldn't be surprised though. Smart Prime is just what a couple of my Benjamin Moore stores out here sell, so it's what I've been going with. It sure has made my life easier, especially in regards to spraying in a customer's home . But just not having to use oil primer in general is pretty nice even for exterior applications. I know it blocks tannins, not sure about the 1-2-3 though.
> 
> On a side note what do you Android users use for Paint Talk these days? It'd be great if I could get the phone to set up notifications so I can stay in the conversation. I seem to forget about paint talk until every Tuesday when the email comes.


Theres an option in your profile page on which notification you want to receive. I turned them all off because my phone was dinging all day. You can also press on your Avatar, and press the "following" button. This will show all the threads you are following.


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

Good deal thanks Kevyn


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## mug (Dec 22, 2010)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I'm 99% sure SmartPrime and 123plus are the same. 123plus is sold at box stores and SmartPrime is sold at smaller paint stores, my local ppg store has it in stock every now and then.


Yes. Same product


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