# staining/finish tricks



## degarb (Apr 30, 2011)

Got a stain varnish job (offices that are occupied in day) coming up this weekend. The first guy petered out, and I am taking over. He messed up staining some cabinet doors, with uneven penetration. He apparently was using 2 or 3 tops coats of water borne urethane minwax.

I do staining on new wood every 3 or 4 years, and have got pretty lucky. But, I never feel comfortable doing work that I don't do constantly year round, even if I have done 100k worth of such work 5 years ago (too many pitfalls and too much to forget). I know: Mostly, I just sand wood first for even penetration. Occasionally, have mucked with wood conditioners and sanding sealers. I do best with sample wood to play around with first. I know popular is hard to stain, but is usually choice of carpenters (probably price and softness). I know solvent lacquers are easiest to spray and have best finish. (but this job will be brushed, likely, for odor, dust concerns--unless forced) I did have one off brand poly I put on door that insisted on running; I had to restrip, start over, and had no problem with Minwax satin. 

Any experts with tips, beyond what I know? How do I find sample wood to experiment? Identify wood type? I assume door and trim are different wood. I assume wainscot is different. I want things to be less an art and more science. The very idea of working and periodically wiping (guessing at soak time) always creeps me out, since it is guess work.

I am guessing materials will all be Sherwin, maybe they have new catalyzed water borne clears too. Should I put one coat of oil sanding sealer before water borne top?


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## Contractor Jeff (Apr 8, 2011)

These type jobs are ones where I consider the damage done and what I want to tell the customer....it's going to cost to rectify it. No two ways about it.

Sometimes there's a faithful customer where they put a project like this upon me and expect me to fulfill. 

Correcting others bad staining jobs makes me want to walk away.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Any plywood veneers I stain always get a pre treat if I am using a penetrating stain. A pigmented clear you don't have to worry about as much. 

On soft cabinets like popular I do a light coat of pigmented clear then stain, it really is worry free as far as absorption. 

If its not a dark stain I would go the pigmented clear route.


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## degarb (Apr 30, 2011)

dark cherry on this job


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

And the wood?


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## degarb (Apr 30, 2011)

I don't know, I was hoping others could have general tips for determining wood type. Perhaps by some absorbency test. My guess, is poplar, since this seems popular by carpenters in this area.

I once had a stair case that was poplar to stain and lacquer in 2005 winter. Had horrible time keeping stain consistent and lacquer kept clouding up. (55 deg in house)


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Is it veneer or solid wood? Got any pics?


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## degarb (Apr 30, 2011)

I don't know about wainscot but doors and trim is probable solid.


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## propainterJ (Jan 31, 2011)

Poplar is usually green,and very soft,not a great staining wood,stains like chit,you might wanna use a stain controller first,usually we mix sanding sealer with lacquer thinner at a rate of 5 thinner to 1 sealer,then stain,then seal then finish


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

Easiest way to determine wood type is to take a sample to a lumber yard - they'll know. They'll also be able to supply you with as much sampling material as you might need. 

I think someone else mentioned it here, but poplar has a bit of a green tint to it. Maple is easy to tell because it's very grainy. Fir - pretty much the same only thinner, longer grain patterns and usually slightly lighter than maple.

The best system for staining IMO is to use a preconditioner, then stain, then a lightly tinted clear, then a clear. I wouldn't use tinted clear only as you'd have big problems if it chips - you would never be able to fix it. 

I'm not familiar with SW stains, but I like to stick with companies whos' primary business is wood finishing - they know best and are able to steer you in the right direction with regards to product and application. My go-to for stains and finishes is MLC.


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## StevenH (Sep 7, 2009)

Posting picture would help.

Is there a piece that the client want to match?

Cherry is most difficult wood to finish 
They tend to blotch. That's why they use dyes first often, seal with wash coat, then pigmented stain.

Even you washcoat, or bleach green poplar. It wont make a hugh difference.
Best to use dyes.


They call it condition, pre-condition, or also known as washcoat.
You can make it your self cheaper.
Any finish would work.

Thin any these finish with 1 part finish and 2 part thinners.

Lacquer
oil base polyurethane
water base polyurethane.
shellac

M favorite and easy to use sealer is PVA glue.


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## Roadog (Apr 18, 2007)

I always mostly...condition the wood first. Especially now you know it blotches. I use Zinsser Seal coat, (a 2 lb cut dewaxed shellac) and I cut it in half with denatured Alcohol. It has never failed me and price is right.


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

i dont use conditioner on poplar, 

imo it takes minwax penetrating stain nicely. ive done miles in cherry.

do manageable sections, pay attention to detail.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

When ever i try a wash coat or sealer and a wiping stain, the wood never takes it dark enough.


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## StevenH (Sep 7, 2009)

DeanV said:


> When ever i try a wash coat or sealer and a wiping stain, the wood never takes it dark enough.


That is 1 one of the downturn of using washcoats. Its best to use dyes first. 

The right side is sealed with PVA glue. Notice its show no blotching. But its more lighter.


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## StevenH (Sep 7, 2009)

Ask your client if there's any left from cabinet job or go to lumber yards and ask for scraps.

We cant tell you what type of wood it is until you post some photos.:yes:


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