# Matching "ambered" clear finish with new work



## VaJohn27 (4 mo ago)

Hey, all. I'm new to the forum, and appreciate having your input. I'm an old contractor who recalls an old contractor once telling me how he "ambers shellac", or something like that. I'm installing maple on a job that has maple in place that was finished and installed in 2008. I'd like to get the finish close, but it doesn't have to be perfect because the new and old work won't be very close to one another. Any suggestions? A photo is attached, showing the (darker) existing against a new sample with "Campbell Finish, Clear Satin" on maple.






Thanks very much.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

You could do a wash coat of orange shellac then dye your topcoat, you could just add dyes to your sanding sealer & then topcoat, and/or you could tone them after sealing them. I had a maple set that I did a few years ago where I ended up adding dyes to both my sealer & topcoat, then sprayed a very light mist as a toner, then sprayed my final coats. Since I was using waterborne products, (Emtech conversion varnish), it was the only way to achieve a satisfactory match. The toner must be sprayed with a rig that can produce a very fine mist with an even spray pattern though in order to keep the stain looking uniform without giving an opaque look if you go that route. 

Many ways to get to the finish line. If you can tell us what products you'll be using as well as what equipment you have at your disposal, you'll likely get much more tailor-made suggestions.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

I won’t add to Troy’s comprehensive reply but will say that I hope you bid it high, or at T&M. I’ve been down that rabbit hole a few times and it can be a long and frustrating one - especially if a dead-on match is required (something you don’t need to achieve - fortunately).


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

I've never had luck using shellac or dyes to match; I think a 5% solution nitric acid might get you mostly there. You can experiment with less even 1% solution will produce some result


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

NA as @cocomonkeynuts mentioned, or baking soda dissolved in hot water, or even tannic acid aka tea stain dissolved in hot water….


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

I want to say I have seen General finishes has an amber clear for matching aged woods.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

MikeCalifornia said:


> I want to say I have seen General finishes has an amber clear for matching aged woods.


it provides the same look as oil polyurethane as far as the 'ambering' opposed to clear water based polyurethanes, ie it just makes the wood look wet. 1-5% nitric acid will provide the oxidized look that is difficult to achieve via dyes or pigments


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Redux said:


> NA as @cocomonkeynuts mentioned, or baking soda dissolved in hot water, or even tannic acid aka tea stain dissolved in hot water….


I should dust off some of my wood staining skills here soon once exterior season is done


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

I would think any oil based poly is going to be pretty dang close. Or an Amber Shellac. Especially if doesn't have to be an exact match. Or maybe something like helmsman exterior oil, as it has more amber tones.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> You could do a wash coat of orange shellac then dye your topcoat, you could just add dyes to your sanding sealer & then topcoat, and/or you could tone them after sealing them. I had a maple set that I did a few years ago where I ended up adding dyes to both my sealer & topcoat, then sprayed a very light mist as a toner, then sprayed my final coats. Since I was using waterborne products, (Emtech conversion varnish), it was the only way to achieve a satisfactory match. The toner must be sprayed with a rig that can produce a very fine mist with an even spray pattern though in order to keep the stain looking uniform without giving an opaque look if you go that route.
> 
> Many ways to get to the finish line. If you can tell us what products you'll be using as well as what equipment you have at your disposal, you'll likely get much more tailor-made suggestions.


Where is the best place to get these dyes? And can they be used with oil AND waterbased products?


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> I should dust off some of my wood staining skills here soon once exterior season is done


Here’s another chemical darkening process I use often…in the following instance I was sampling out lye on SYP flooring to darken/artificially age it:









Edit:
Cherry bathroom I did which was artificially aged with lye:


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## cbinc (Mar 16, 2015)

I usually send customers to a stain specialty store, we stock their stains, but for matches go there. take the old colour and the new wood. it's always time and money to match something like this, how much is the HO willing to spend?


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

cbinc said:


> I usually send customers to a stain specialty store, we stock their stains, but for matches go there. take the old colour and the new wood. it's always time and money to match something like this, how much is the HO willing to spend?


No store will match stains like this. Seriously look at @Redux last photos. Amazing.

It requires a multiple step dye, stain, glaze and/or knowledge and use of chemical reactive dyes. I was doing it in my store but if I were to go back and actually bill out for the labor it would add hundreds to thousands to some bills while I was only doing it for my own amusement and knowledge. I'm at a point now where I will do it onsite but it's $120/hour


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> No store will match stains like this. Seriously look at @Redux last photos. Amazing.
> 
> It requires a multiple step dye, stain, glaze and/or knowledge and use of chemical reactive dyes. I was doing it in my store but if I were to go back and actually bill out for the labor it would add hundreds to thousands to some bills while I was only doing it for my own amusement and knowledge. I'm at a point now where I will do it onsite but it's $120/hour


Thanks Coco

I actually got called in to finish the cherry bathroom pictured due to the cabinet maker’s finishers having thrown in the towel after spending two weeks of multiple failed attempts at trying to match the naturally aged cherry in the adjoining dressing room which was done years prior. I was able to whip up a spot-on match in under 4 hrs utilizing lye…one of several tricks of the trade..


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Redux said:


> Thanks Coco
> 
> I actually got called in to finish the cherry bathroom pictured due to the cabinet maker’s finishers having thrown in the towel after spending two weeks of multiple failed attempts at trying to match the naturally aged cherry in the adjoining dressing room which was done years prior. I was able to whip up a spot-on match in under 4 hrs utilizing lye…one of several tricks of the trade..


Around here, and I'm sure it's the same everywhere else, most shops just want SW to spit out a lacquer stain which they scan from a spectrometer. I had another shop, whom I was repairing their CAtech and Kremlin sprayers, he was trying to tell me his buddy has one and it gives perfect matches every time. I just had a laugh seeing those cherry panels you did and picturing how much time they would waste trying to replicate it with a waterborne stain.

The money for that kind of work is here but I'm not sure the people would even know what they're looking at. It's not like on the east coast. It's all new money and people just want flat and cheap as possible it seems.

Zuckerberg doesn't see any difference between porcelain and real Calacatta marble just for example.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Redux said:


> Thanks Coco
> 
> I actually got called in to finish the cherry bathroom pictured due to the cabinet maker’s finishers having thrown in the towel after spending two weeks of multiple failed attempts at trying to match the naturally aged cherry in the adjoining dressing room which was done years prior. I was able to whip up a spot-on match in under 4 hrs utilizing lye…one of several tricks of the trade..


When using Lye how does altering the pH affect any finish you put on top?


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> When using Lye how does altering the pH affect any finish you put on top?


Best to neutralize with distilled white vinegar then rinse with deionized water. I generally test pH after neutralizing by placing a drop of deionized water on the wood followed by setting a piece of litmus paper in the drop. Residual lye salts can wreak havoc w/shellac and urethane alkyds plus they can also negatively impact water permeability of waterborne clears, plus the lye can reactivate in humid or damp conditions. I generally water pop and sand before using lye on wood due to causing significant grain raise.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Redux said:


> Best to neutralize with distilled white vinegar then rinse with deionized water. I generally test pH after neutralizing by placing a drop of deionized water on the wood followed by setting a piece of litmus paper in the drop. Residual lye salts can wreak havoc w/shellac and urethane alkyds plus they can also negatively impact water permeability of waterborne clears, plus the lye can reactivate in humid or damp conditions. I generally water pop and sand before using lye on wood due to causing significant grain raise.


Is there any reason to use acetic acid over say cirtic acid which is significantly less irritating to the olfactory sensors? I'm familiar with the byproducts of neutralization but I mean as far as the overall darkening effect and top coating


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Is there any reason to use acetic acid over say cirtic acid which is significantly less irritating to the olfactory sensors? I'm familiar with the byproducts of neutralization but I mean as far as the overall darkening effect and top coating


I generally neutralize with an acetic acid solution w/a pH of value of between 2.5 -2.6, yet I don’t think it’s possible to concoct a citric acid solution strong enough with that low of a pH value which is probably why acetic acid is commonly used. Same applies for neutralizing 2-part sodium hydroxide/hydrogen peroxide wood bleach.

edit: correction, citric acid can be purchased in similar strengths…my wrong…


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Redux said:


> I generally neutralize with an acetic acid solution w/a pH of value of between 2.5 -2.6, yet I don’t think it’s possible to concoct a citric acid solution strong enough with that low of a pH value which is probably why acetic acid is commonly used. Same applies for neutralizing 2-part sodium hydroxide/hydrogen peroxide wood bleach.
> 
> edit: correction, citric acid can be purchased in similar strengths…my wrong…


makes sense, would have to add some HCL to get to the same pH at similar concentration


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## Respec (Sep 13, 2015)

The tint guys at my Campbell supplier are really good. I have a Woodsong II stain that matches aged wood like that really well. I had a customer whose cabinets where in bad shape but wanted the color the same. I took a door to them and had them match the color. We stripped them and stained them the aged color. It wasn't a very satisfying job because the cabinets looked exactly the same except shiny with a nice finish, but the customer loved it. That was a year or two ago. We are in the middle of a similar job. These cabinets were in much better shape, so we were just clear coating them, but a couple doors ended up needing color match touch ups. I pulled that stain out and they blended in great. I love that Woodsong II stain. It is a spray and wipe stain that is super easy to work with. Dries fast, but not so fast that you can't work with it. I believe a solvent clear can go over it in under an hour, but we use water base topcoats, so we have to wait 2 hours before top coating, which is still pretty dang fast.


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## mike mineral spirits (Dec 5, 2020)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> it provides the same look as oil polyurethane as far as the 'ambering' opposed to clear water based polyurethanes, ie it just makes the wood look wet. 1-5% nitric acid will provide the oxidized look that is difficult to achieve via dyes or pigments


Absolutely correct, an alkyd always has ambling qualities vs a non yellowing acrylic. take a styrofoam cup to you paint supplier, ask if they would add half ounce of yellow oxide or GX a clean yellow. take a small amount of your varnish or shellac and use a very small amount and add it to the varnish/shellac, it would definitely yellow the finish. Also works with rex oxide if you want to strengthen the cherry appearance or a little yellow with the red will give it a maple like appearance. At SW, you must use the BAC colorants, not the CCE. Genex I believe is still universal for latex or alkyds. Definitely works with varnish, I never worked with a shellac as in the old days there was white or amber shellac manufactured by Hausers. Have a good day. Another old painters trick was to use a fast dry varnish and add a pint to the alkyd paint. Accelerates the drying and creates a beautiful depth of finish to the alkyd. Use on hand railings as a door would show a blotchy appearance over the larger area.


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## mike mineral spirits (Dec 5, 2020)

mike mineral spirits said:


> Absolutely correct, an alkyd always has ambling qualities vs a non yellowing acrylic. take a styrofoam cup to you paint supplier, ask if they would add half ounce of yellow oxide or GX a clean yellow. take a small amount of your varnish or shellac and use a very small amount and add it to the varnish/shellac, it would definitely yellow the finish. Also works with rex oxide if you want to strengthen the cherry appearance or a little yellow with the red will give it a maple like appearance. At SW, you must use the BAC colorants, not the CCE. Genex I believe is still universal for latex or alkyds. Definitely works with varnish, I never worked with a shellac as in the old days there was white or amber shellac manufactured by Hausers. Have a good day. Another old painters trick was to use a fast dry varnish and add a pint to the alkyd paint. Accelerates the drying and creates a beautiful depth of finish to the alkyd. Use on hand railings as a door would show a blotchy appearance over the larger area.


I've never learned to proof read. Red Oxide not rex


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

mike mineral spirits said:


> Absolutely correct, an alkyd always has ambling qualities vs a non yellowing acrylic. take a styrofoam cup to you paint supplier, ask if they would add half ounce of yellow oxide or GX a clean yellow. take a small amount of your varnish or shellac and use a very small amount and add it to the varnish/shellac, it would definitely yellow the finish. Also works with rex oxide if you want to strengthen the cherry appearance or a little yellow with the red will give it a maple like appearance. At SW, you must use the BAC colorants, not the CCE. Genex I believe is still universal for latex or alkyds. Definitely works with varnish, I never worked with a shellac as in the old days there was white or amber shellac manufactured by Hausers. Have a good day. Another old painters trick was to use a fast dry varnish and add a pint to the alkyd paint. Accelerates the drying and creates a beautiful depth of finish to the alkyd. Use on hand railings as a door would show a blotchy appearance over the larger area.


Respectably I have to disagree; tinted varnish/urethane with universal colorants just results in cloudy appearance. If your tinting top coats you should at a minimum use dyes, something like transtint which are soluble in alcohol or alkyds. Even then I would use this technique as a last resort.

Also gennex is not soluble in alkyds, water base only.


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

mike mineral spirits said:


> Absolutely correct, an alkyd always has ambling qualities vs a non yellowing acrylic. take a styrofoam cup to you paint supplier, ask if they would add half ounce of yellow oxide or GX a clean yellow. take a small amount of your varnish or shellac and use a very small amount and add it to the varnish/shellac, it would definitely yellow the finish. Also works with rex oxide if you want to strengthen the cherry appearance or a little yellow with the red will give it a maple like appearance. At SW, you must use the BAC colorants, not the CCE. Genex I believe is still universal for latex or alkyds. Definitely works with varnish, I never worked with a shellac as in the old days there was white or amber shellac manufactured by Hausers. Have a good day. Another old painters trick was to use a fast dry varnish and add a pint to the alkyd paint. Accelerates the drying and creates a beautiful depth of finish to the alkyd. Use on hand railings as a door would show a blotchy appearance over the larger area.


One reason I try not to use pigmented stains and/or pigmented toners when matching new to “naturally aged” wood is that after a few years, chances are it will look completely different than the existing. That’s where reactive chemical stains are advantageous. I’ll sometimes tweak the wood after chemically staining with natural dye-stuffs and/or dye toners in order to dial the color in better if needed. I’ll only resort to using pigments after exhausting all other options.

(Going way back, I’ve also used a ton of shellac by Mantrose-Haeuser before they were bought out by Zinsser)


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## Packard (May 2, 2018)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> You could do a wash coat of orange shellac then dye your topcoat, you could just add dyes to your sanding sealer & then topcoat, and/or you could tone them after sealing them. I had a maple set that I did a few years ago where I ended up adding dyes to both my sealer & topcoat, then sprayed a very light mist as a toner, then sprayed my final coats. Since I was using waterborne products, (Emtech conversion varnish), it was the only way to achieve a satisfactory match. The toner must be sprayed with a rig that can produce a very fine mist with an even spray pattern though in order to keep the stain looking uniform without giving an opaque look if you go that route.
> 
> Many ways to get to the finish line. If you can tell us what products you'll be using as well as what equipment you have at your disposal, you'll likely get much more tailor-made suggestions.


Amber shellac would be my first choice too. Zinsser sells pre-mixed amber shellac. It is a pretty dark amber. If it is too dark he can cut it with SealCoat (also Zinsser) which is clear. Or if it needs to be darker, adding coats will give a darker effect.

Shellac has a bunch of admirable qualities. It offers excellent adhesion. It is non-toxic once dry, indeed every M & M you’ve ever eaten was coated with shellac (called “food glaze” when FDA approved). It is also hypoallergenic, skin contact with the dry film will not cause allergic reactions.

It dries in 20 minutes, regardless of the humidity. While it has a fairly strong odor while applying, it has no lingering odor. 

The big hit on shellac is that if you spill your martini on the surface it will damage the finish. But there are lots of places where alcohol never goes near. I used it for years to coat drawer boxes, mainly for the quick dry and the no lingering odors. A closed drawer will retain odors for a long time.

You can find it at Lowes (but not at Home Depot). Home Depot lists it on line but the three stores near me do not carry any. Just the Sealcoat and B-I-N.


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## The Montana Painter (Dec 2, 2018)

This would be a simple match for me. Sounds like there are a lot of complicated processes that are labor intensive on the actual job to achieve a dead on match. For a close( most folks wouldn't notice) get a close stain match and clear with de-waxed shellac sealer for the oil look. Next I would topcoat with an ambered (water based analin dye of 1/2 tsp yellow, 1/8 tsp brown and 1/8 tsp orange per gallon) acrylic topcoat...wonderful desired color is achieved final topcoat with clear version of tented topcoat.....test samples and get client approval first has always worked for me


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

Target Coatings EM8000 CV provides a nice warm amber glow on maple being it’s a waterborne alkyd emulsion.

Before & after pics of a maple table base finished w/the EM8000…left is after stripping…right is after 4 coats of the EM8000


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Redux said:


> Target Coatings EM8000 CV provides a nice warm amber glow on maple being it’s a waterborne alkyd emulsion.
> 
> Before & after pics of a maple table base finished w/the EM8000…left is after stripping…right is after 4 coats of the EM8000
> 
> View attachment 114523


looks great, especially for a water-reducible, low VOC clear!


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

Holland said:


> looks great, especially for a water-reducible, low VOC clear!


Thanks!
It’s a really nice & easy product to work with and provides a slightly aged look due to the amber tone. It’s also very durable and I highly recommend it!

Another example of the EM8000 CV on another table strip/refinish project:


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Redux said:


> Thanks!
> It’s a really nice & easy product to work with and provides a slightly aged look due to the amber tone. It’s also very durable and I highly recommend it!
> 
> Another example of the EM8000 CV on another table strip/refinish project:
> ...


do you brush that, or spray, or both? 

I'm assuming you can mix only what you need, and the rest will keep for subsequent coats?


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

Holland said:


> do you brush that, or spray, or both?
> 
> I'm assuming you can mix only what you need, and the rest will keep for subsequent coats?


I’ve only sprayed it but am pretty certain it could be brushed and/or rolled and tipped off with a brush. It’s pre-catalyzed with an organosilane crosslinker which also inhibits alkyd yellowing…what you see is what you get without any further yellowing/ambering as would an oil alkyd poly. It can also be post catalyzed, and don’t quote me on this..I “think” it has a pot life of up to 100 hrs after post catalyzing, although it’s really not a catalyzed 2-pack system per say.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Where is the best place to get these dyes? And can they be used with oil AND waterbased products?


Sorry for the delayed reply. Not sure how I missed this. I get mine from a local Woodcraft store, but it can be purchased online from most woodwork/finishing stores, (Rockler, Homestead Finishes, even Amazon or Ebay). The TransTint dyes I use aren't designed for oil varnishes/poly, but there are some finishers who still do it from time to time by adding it at approx. a 1:4 ratio, (1 part dye to 4 parts acetone), to Tung Oil and the like. It would depend upon which particular varnish/poly though, as well as how much mineral spirits that varnish is cut with, (as well as probably a lot of other things I don't even know, lol).


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## mike mineral spirits (Dec 5, 2020)

Redux said:


> One reason I try not to use pigmented stains and/or pigmented toners when matching new to “naturally aged” wood is that after a few years, chances are it will look completely different than the existing. That’s where reactive chemical stains are advantageous. I’ll sometimes tweak the wood after chemically staining with natural dye-stuffs and/or dye toners in order to dial the color in better if needed. I’ll only resort to using pigments after exhausting all other options.
> 
> (Going way back, I’ve also used a ton of shellac by Mantrose-Haeuser before they were bought out by Zinsser)


15 Years ago I worked at a SW store that sold the dyes with their commercial stains. Their dyes came in a pint bottle and worked very well when added to their suggested tint base. . The stain was very strong with a high solids ratio, therefore coverage or color change was excellent. This product was slightly pricier than conventional wood stains, therefore sold almost exclusively to Millworks and professional cabinet finishers. Compare Min-wax whose properties are very thin and multiple coats are necessary. Valspar has or had a versatile tint base with reasonable coverage, the first coat was their sanding sealer to produce a consistent color with a light sanding then their stain is applied. The sanding sealer was used to ensure color consistency on a variety of woods. 

The colorant amount I suggested was a 1/32 or 1/48th of an ounce. Essentially it tweaked the color and added depth. The clarity of the stain was essentially provided by the type of wood and preparation. This is a trick I used when I encounter a difficult match or customer and especially useful when matching a mahogany on an inferior piece of wood. I always used either a cheesecloth or a fine steel wool to apply and control the color when staining.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Some fantastic info here. I know the techy guys will heckle me here, but a less technical option could be just to use something like polyshades. AKA a tinted poly. Although trying to get the right tone is the tricky part. Would save mucking around with a bunch of chemicals unless it's in the budget of course..


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## mike mineral spirits (Dec 5, 2020)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Some fantastic info here. I know the techy guys will heckle me here, but a less technical option could be just to use something like polyshades. AKA a tinted poly. Although trying to get the right tone is the tricky part. Would save mucking around with a bunch of chemicals unless it's in the budget of course..


Funny you mentioned Polysgades or poly stain. I worked for a company called Wattyl also known as Porter Paints in the early 90's. I told their sales manager that Polystain looked like somebody threw "poop through a screen door" when it came to a quality finisher product. I went to work for MAB Paints out of Philly shortly thereafter. My dad taught me to stain, apply a coat of clear or amber shellac, sand lightly and topcoat with a nice varnish like Zar. Modern paint store employees have a limited knowledge of paint {one could fit it into a thimble} and a mastery of selling product, even if the consequences hurt the credibility of the paint contractor. Rather than a paint brand. Find a store with professional sales people who stand behind their brand by looking after your best interests.. If you find paint issues are hurting your success, make it your priority to find a independent Paint Dealer. They understand the wonderful world of paint. Remember, I started by cleaning paint brushes way back in 1960. Have a great evening everyone.


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## monarchski (Jun 21, 2019)

mike mineral spirits said:


> Funny you mentioned Polysgades or poly stain. I worked for a company called Wattyl also known as Porter Paints in the early 90's. I told their sales manager that Polystain looked like somebody threw "poop through a screen door" when it came to a quality finisher product. I went to work for MAB Paints out of Philly shortly thereafter. My dad taught me to stain, apply a coat of clear or amber shellac, sand lightly and topcoat with a nice varnish like Zar. Modern paint store employees have a limited knowledge of paint {one could fit it into a thimble} and a mastery of selling product, even if the consequences hurt the credibility of the paint contractor. Rather than a paint brand. Find a store with professional sales people who stand behind their brand by looking after your best interests.. If you find paint issues are hurting your success, make it your priority to find a independent Paint Dealer. They understand the wonderful world of paint. Remember, I started by cleaning paint brushes way back in 1960. Have a great evening everyone.


Porter made some fantastic products. Of course, PPG messed that up...


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

mike mineral spirits said:


> Funny you mentioned Polysgades or poly stain. I worked for a company called Wattyl also known as Porter Paints in the early 90's. I told their sales manager that Polystain looked like somebody threw "poop through a screen door" when it came to a quality finisher product. I went to work for MAB Paints out of Philly shortly thereafter. My dad taught me to stain, apply a coat of clear or amber shellac, sand lightly and topcoat with a nice varnish like Zar. Modern paint store employees have a limited knowledge of paint {one could fit it into a thimble} and a mastery of selling product, even if the consequences hurt the credibility of the paint contractor. Rather than a paint brand. Find a store with professional sales people who stand behind their brand by looking after your best interests.. If you find paint issues are hurting your success, make it your priority to find a independent Paint Dealer. They understand the wonderful world of paint. Remember, I started by cleaning paint brushes way back in 1960. Have a great evening everyone.


I've only used polyshades once to touchup a handrail that was previously painted with it. And ya, it did not look good.
I really only threw that out there as a quick cheap option. A pre-stain then oil poly would be my vote.


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## jimmyd (Mar 14, 2013)

RH said:


> I won’t add to Troy’s comprehensive reply but will say that I hope you bid it high, or at T&M. I’ve been down that rabbit hole a few times and it can be a long and frustrating one - especially if a dead-on match is required (something you don’t need to achieve - fortunately).


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

sometimes a perfect match in unachievable. I mentioned in a previous thread I turned down earlier this year a 100K+ sikkens restoration. How can you match 30 year old oxidized varnish that has 10+ layers of pigmented top coat applied? Not possible economically. At this point I would recommend replacing the siding


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## mike mineral spirits (Dec 5, 2020)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> sometimes a perfect match in unachievable. I mentioned in a previous thread I turned down earlier this year a 100K+ sikkens restoration. How can you match 30 year old oxidized varnish that has 10+ layers of pigmented top coat applied? Not possible economically. At this point I would recommend replacing the siding





VaJohn27 said:


> Hey, all. I'm new to the forum, and appreciate having your input. I'm an old contractor who recalls an old contractor once telling me how he "ambers shellac", or something like that. I'm installing maple on a job that has maple in place that was finished and installed in 2008. I'd like to get the finish close, but it doesn't have to be perfect because the new and old work won't be very close to one another. Any suggestions? A photo is attached, showing the (darker) existing against a new sample with "Campbell Finish, Clear Satin" on maple.
> View attachment 114511
> Thanks very much.


I take it you are trying to match the Oak? The radish flooring makes it near impossible to to convert as the red will turn brownish when yellow or amber is introduced. Days of old we would use a shined base coat of well thinned alkyd enamel undercoat tinted slightly with some raw Sienna. apply an oak stain, then apply a skim coat of a reddish stain using a graining tool. Apply a coat of shellac, sand lightly, then apply your finish varnish. For the past 5 years, variegated or composite wood is what contractors bring into match. No one wants to hear the variety of wood used to obtain the manufacturers effect. Make your customer or end user understand we cannot duplicate what machine has created.


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