# Hvlp



## One Coat Coverage (Oct 4, 2009)

It's about time I pick one of these up. For you guys that are experienced with them-what would be a good starter unit?


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

The fuji units are nice, as is the graco. Depends on how much coin you want to spend, and how much production you are anticipating.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Dean V and I are pretty sweet on the 9.5 Turboforce from Graco.


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## One Coat Coverage (Oct 4, 2009)

straight_lines said:


> The fuji units are nice, as is the graco. Depends on how much coin you want to spend, and how much production you are anticipating.


At the start, I have one job in mind to use it to spray some Impervo on trim. But, once I have it in my arsenal, I'm sure I'll use it more and more.

I have not looked into cost too much, but I would not want to spend top dollar. I'm looking at something comparable to the Titan 440, not too big, not too small.


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## One Coat Coverage (Oct 4, 2009)

vermontpainter said:


> Dean V and I are pretty sweet on the 9.5 Turboforce from Graco.


Thanks, I'll look into that unit.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

One Coat Coverage said:


> Thanks, I'll look into that unit.


It is very user friendly and trouble free. Not the cheapest rig, but really a good one.


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

One Coat Coverage said:


> At the start, I have one job in mind to use it to spray some Impervo on trim. But, once I have it in my arsenal, I'm sure I'll use it more and more.
> 
> I have not looked into cost too much, but I would not want to spend top dollar. I'm looking at something comparable to the Titan 440, not too big, not too small.


You might not be happy with one if you plan on using it for latex and oil paints. I haven't used the 9.5 but with the Graco 3800 the material needed to be thinned quite a bit for good atomization.

Keep in mind that the turbine blows warm air - so if your'e using quick drying material it might need to be retarded to prevent dry spray. 

Also, HVLP is not great for production. If you had planned on using one to spray a house full of doors and trim you'd be better served with an air-assist unit. 

They do however (or rather, can) produce very nice finishes.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Call me old fashioned but nothing in the world beats this for fine finishes. And if you have a decent portable compressor with filter its really no bigger a deal than dealing with an airless. The new cup systems are a blessing from above as well. They will keep paint for a long time, so you only have to clean the gun.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Alec

Thats a 3 stage isnt it?


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

vermontpainter said:


> Alec
> 
> Thats a 3 stage isnt it?


Yes I believe it was. Don't own it anymore got rid of it a couple of years back when I picked up the AAA.


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

straight_lines said:


> Call me old fashioned but nothing in the world beats this for fine finishes. And if you have a decent portable compressor with filter its really no bigger a deal than dealing with an airless. The new cup systems are a blessing from above as well. They will keep paint for a long time, so you only have to clean the gun.


That's a beauty!! What kind of compressor you running for that thing? How many CFM does it need?


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## One Coat Coverage (Oct 4, 2009)

vermontpainter said:


> It is very user friendly and trouble free. Not the cheapest rig, but really a good one.


 Sounds good.


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## One Coat Coverage (Oct 4, 2009)

Rcon said:


> You might not be happy with one if you plan on using it for latex and oil paints. I haven't used the 9.5 but with the Graco 3800 the material needed to be thinned quite a bit for good atomization.
> 
> Keep in mind that the turbine blows warm air - so if your'e using quick drying material it might need to be retarded to prevent dry spray.
> 
> ...


 I was only going to use it for oil based products.

What is the difference between an AA unit and an HVLP?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

One Coat Coverage said:


> I was only going to use it for oil based products.
> 
> What is the difference between an AA unit and an HVLP?


Its alot to type  but this discusses some of the basic differences


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Rcon said:


> That's a beauty!! What kind of compressor you running for that thing? How many CFM does it need?


10 3 @ 50 psi max, but it depends on material and tip/needle size. Usually much less, and below 35ish psi is the sweet spot. 

Makita MAC5200 Big Bore is what I have, and we use it for everything, its quiet and efficient. Will run several nail guns, but I have only really pushed it once or twice on big remodels.


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## JoseyWales (Jan 8, 2011)

I hate my 4 stage HVLP...It sits in my garage only to remind me of what a waste of money it was to purchase...I actually bought TWO guns,one for acrylics and one for oils so i didn't have to switch out the needles..The sales guys told me that it will spray anything with ease...Four years later I still can't get it set up to spray acrylics properly...

Yeah it'll work for oil,but who buys alkyds anymore?..I've been waiting all this time for a job that requires an oil,but has never come..You'll really hate the production on doors...

I tried using it with a water based lacquer product and it produced a lousy finish...I ended up re-doing all the doors with my airless using an acrylic paint.


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## One Coat Coverage (Oct 4, 2009)

vermontpainter said:


> Its alot to type  but this discusses some of the basic differences


Thanks, I read your review. So what do you like more, the Turboforce, or the 395? 

Which one would be better to take on site and spray Impervo with?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

One Coat Coverage said:


> Thanks, I read your review. So what do you like more, the Turboforce, or the 395?
> 
> Which one would be better to take on site and spray Impervo with?


If anything more than a quart or two, I'd take the 395. 

The other critical difference between the two technologies is price. Big difference. (aaa is more)


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## One Coat Coverage (Oct 4, 2009)

vermontpainter said:


> If anything more than a quart or two, I'd take the 395.
> 
> The other critical difference between the two technologies is price. Big difference. (aaa is more)


I just looked them both up, the 395 is going for about $2400.

What do you think of spraying Impervo with an airless?


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## robladd (Nov 22, 2010)

straight_lines said:


> Call me old fashioned but nothing in the world beats this for fine finishes. And if you have a decent portable compressor with filter its really no bigger a deal than dealing with an airless. The new cup systems are a blessing from above as well. They will keep paint for a long time, so you only have to clean the gun.
> 
> http://imgur.com/6fCVx


My brother in law has a sata-jet in his body shop it works great in automotive.

Never considered it for residential I am sure it works great.

I have used both turbine and shop air HVLP's. Having a aaa system of my own I think if I was going to get a HVLP I would get a shop air then maybe a turbine.

Paint zoom for a hundred Alex


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

One Coat Coverage said:


> I just looked them both up, the 395 is going for about $2400.
> 
> What do you think of spraying Impervo with an airless?


I think it would work. I'd flush the bejesus out of the machine first. Then run spirits through it. I'd turn the pressure down as much as possible. Its so easy when fine spraying with airless to overload and get the sagging sharts. I am sure guys do it all the time. I would practice a good bit before taking out on the job. 

Neps, I think, gave some solid advice on it. He would be the man to ask on that. He sprays alot of trim packs and has that program better dialed than anyone I have ever spoken to.


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## robladd (Nov 22, 2010)

Something that I want to mention here is AAA is HVLP air assisted airless spraying.

Turbine and Shop Air are HVLP conventional/air spray spraying.

I believe some here maybe a little confused between the different HVLP systems. 

Just remember there is 3 different guns. AAA, Turbine and Shop Air. Sincerely Rob


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## JoseyWales (Jan 8, 2011)

robladd said:


> Something that I want to mention here is AAA is HVLP air assisted airless spraying.
> 
> Turbine and Shop Air are HVLP conventional/air spray spraying.
> 
> ...


You try the Kremlin EOS yet?


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Bought a Fuji Super Gold 4 stage unit (turbine) with gravity fed cup about six months ago ($825). Nice unit and it sprays alkyd great. I've used it on about 2 dozen projects (doors, trim, etc.) and have been very pleased with it's performance. However, it isn't a good choice for large scale production work and I'm still not happy with how it handles latex products. The manufacturer says it can do it and that it's all about thinning properly and user technique but I'm not so sure. Hoping the waterborne alkyds may work better.


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## robladd (Nov 22, 2010)

JoseyWales said:


> You try the Kremlin EOS yet?


I have not but I have seen 1 in action at Wynn in Las Vegas and was very impressed with the system. 

A shop named Artisan Cab had it. It was on a low boy push cart with a 10 cfm electric compressor. They were doing Stain Grade cabinets and panel walls with it. The results were outstanding to say the least.


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## One Coat Coverage (Oct 4, 2009)

vermontpainter said:


> I think it would work. I'd flush the bejesus out of the machine first. Then run spirits through it. I'd turn the pressure down as much as possible. Its so easy when fine spraying with airless to overload and get the sagging sharts. I am sure guys do it all the time. I would practice a good bit before taking out on the job.
> 
> Neps, I think, gave some solid advice on it. He would be the man to ask on that. He sprays alot of trim packs and has that program better dialed than anyone I have ever spoken to.


Yeah, that is probably the route I will go, what Neps said in the other thread. Someone else I talked too said that adding linseed oil will help the Impervo dry faster.


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## robladd (Nov 22, 2010)

I have been looking at a block wall that is 3/4 mile long counting both sides it's a mile and half.

It has wrought iron security railing on top and still haven't decided how I will finish it.

Any suggestions?


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

straight_lines said:


> 10 3 @ 50 psi max, but it depends on material and tip/needle size. Usually much less, and below 35ish psi is the sweet spot.
> 
> Makita MAC5200 Big Bore is what I have, and we use it for everything, its quiet and efficient. Will run several nail guns, but I have only really pushed it once or twice on big remodels.


Thanks Tommy

I've been looking into a sata gravity gun - RP model since they require less CFM. And those 3M PPS cups are supposed to be sweet. 

What do you use the sata for? Stains and washcoats I assume? The only thing that was holding me back from getting the sata was that my compressor is only 11.9 CFM max (8.9 actual) @90, and wasn't sure it was enough for the gun. But if it works for you with the mak then i'm off to get me a sata!!


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## JoseyWales (Jan 8, 2011)

robladd said:


> I have been looking at a block wall that is 3/4 mile long counting both sides it's a mile and half.
> 
> It has wrought iron security railing on top and still haven't decided how I will finish it.
> 
> Any suggestions?


electrostatic?


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Alec most times I use my gravity gun in the shop, so plenty of air no worries there. With the right tip, pressure, flow and correct reduction it will spray anything from solvents, and dye stains to heavy acrylics.

This is Ben Moore soft gloss (old formula thick as hell) reduced about 8 % with a 2.5 needle.


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## robladd (Nov 22, 2010)

JoseyWales said:


> electrostatic?


Talked to my tech any wind over mile and a half and it will not work effectively.

Josey that was my first thought. Really considering a 109 in the g-40. It's a 2 coater any way you look at it.


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## pacificpainters.com (May 5, 2011)

I used to have a Graco HVLP but I was not that rapped in it. We use an Apollo 725 HVLP Turbine here at the college in Fiji. I love this unit, fantastic!

I am really impressed with the consistent flow rate and the hassle free use. I seldom get a clogged tip, and I don't need to thin the paint too much either.

I think if you buy one of these you won't be disappointed. You will always still need an airless unit for high volume work but the HVLP is great for all the fiddly work and it cleans out pretty fast too.


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

vermontpainter said:


> Its alot to type  but this discusses some of the basic differences


Thanks for the great review Scott!

Do you use the machine for both clears and pigmented finishes? Lacquers and WB's?

I'm always worried about putting any type of WB finish through my machine then ending up with flakes/specs in my finish the next time I put a solvent clear though it. Solvent pigment/clear is no problem with a good cleaning between uses i've discovered. Some I hear are using separate hoses for this issue? How are you dealing with it?


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## robladd (Nov 22, 2010)

pacificpainters.com said:


> I used to have a Graco HVLP but I was not that rapped in it. We use an Apollo 725 HVLP Turbine here at the college in Fiji. I love this unit, fantastic!
> 
> I am really impressed with the consistent flow rate and the hassle free use. I seldom get a clogged tip, and I don't need to thin the paint too much either.
> 
> I think if you buy one of these you won't be disappointed. You will always still need an airless unit for high volume work but the HVLP is great for all the fiddly work and it cleans out pretty fast too.


I know from your threads and post that your a trainer. I like how you say that this unit is great for fiddy work is that like tight
multiple sided work louvre doors and things? I can only imagine how different your training schedule is from our union halls. Could you give us some idea what your training curriculum is?

Ours is as follows
1. Intro to paints & drywall finishes/substrates 
2. Basic hand tools
3. Basic painting and drywall tools
4. Basic auto tools
5. Basic auto tools, painting and drywall 
6. Intro to spray painting and drywall finishes.
7. Ladders, scaffolds and lifts.
8. Paperhanging
9. Sandblasting
10. Blue print reading and estimating/project managing 
11. Journeyman status

Pacificpainters.com can you give us a run down of your formal training?


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

pacificpainters.com said:


> I used to have a Graco HVLP but I was not that rapped in it. We use an Apollo 725 HVLP Turbine here at the college in Fiji. I love this unit, fantastic!
> 
> I am really impressed with the consistent flow rate and the hassle free use. I seldom get a clogged tip, and I don't need to thin the paint too much either.
> 
> I think if you buy one of these you won't be disappointed. You will always still need an airless unit for high volume work but the HVLP is great for all the fiddly work and it cleans out pretty fast too.


I would agree on what PP said here. My Fuji (do they sell these in Fiji?) does do the job for smaller scale "fiddly" work. Recently did a set of bi-fold louvered closet doors which are a total pain to paint. They were a midnight blue, pretty beat up, and generally nasty looking. Used pro-Classic alkyd creamy white thinned about 10%. With some good prep and three top coats they looked like new. 
I too like the ease of clean-up on these units. I also like the gravity feed gun.


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## pacificpainters.com (May 5, 2011)

robladd said:


> I know from your threads and post that your a trainer. I can only imagine how different your training schedule is from our union halls. Could you give us some idea what your training curriculum is?
> 
> Pacificpainters.com can you give us a run down of your formal training?


Are you are a trainer too, really glad to hear from you. You can contact me through my website if you like.

WARNING: The following will be incredibly boring to most.

I work for APTC an Australian Government initiative and I am based here in Fiji teaching for the 14 Pacific Nations Forum. I facilitate the delivery of an Australian Qualification that is nationally and to some degree internationally recognised. 

Here is a list of the units of core competencies required. As well as these 23 mandatory subjects a student will be required to undertake four elective competencies as well making a total of 27 competencies or subjects.

This is an academic qualification on its own. To gain a full trade qualification will vary from state to state but generally it will require an apprenticeship of 3 to 4 years OR a skills assessment and gap training after a minimum of 6 years experience.

Here in the Pacific I am delivering an academic qualification. For one of my students to migrate to Australia on a skills migration Visa or gain a full trade qualification they will need to demonstrate that they have had a minimum of 4 years industry experience on top of the certificate III that I facilitate. 

A new industry entrant here will require 24 weeks of formal college training and 8 weeks minimum of full time work in the industry. An existing worker with 2 or more years experience will require 18 weeks of formal college training only.

:sleep1:


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## robladd (Nov 22, 2010)

No sir I am not a trainer, but I have been a mentor for many apprentice over the years.

I have been doing some estimating recently and find this is the avenue that I will be taking as I continue to grow in the Industry.


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## pacificpainters.com (May 5, 2011)

robladd said:


> No sir I am not a trainer, but I have been a mentor for many apprentice over the years.


I have always held employers that view them selves as mentors (indeed trainers) in high esteem. I have the easy job, I get paid to train people, the employers that are running a business and take the time to train are legends and the backbone of the industry.


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

I'm considering getting some thing to do kitchen cabniets...trim...hollow metal frames and doors in general...wrought iron railings ect....

Hvlp or air assist....i saw a demo on a 5 or 6 stage titan hvlp...i was pretty impressed for $1500

My rep then showed me a Graco air assist for $2200.00

What do you guys think is better? 

Also what do I do to keep clears clean....while also using it for paint? 

I heard guys having issues with paint....thinning....i don't want to mess around...I'll spend the money if it makes things easier.....

How much do the pressure pots cost extra and is it worth it ? 

I'm really thinking about masking off door jams and using this as a new system to paint doors and jams.....

Ideas ?


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

There should be a ton of threads on this if you search. 
Really depends on what you're shooting and how much. 
You might look into this Titan ED655 plus. Around $600 easy to shoot small quantities or bigger. 











Sent from my blah blah blah


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

Damon T said:


> There should be a ton of threads on this if you search.
> Really depends on what you're shooting and how much.
> You might look into this Titan ED655 plus. Around $600 easy to shoot small quantities or bigger.
> 
> Sent from my blah blah blah


Mostly trying to spray dtm on hollow metal door frames...that could handle it ? I've been watching a lot of you tube videos....they just look intrest in and like once I got it I would find a lot of uses for it


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## whoandydo (Nov 5, 2018)

Hey straight_lines, sorry to revive an old thread, but just wanted to know what your exact set up is? I have a MAC5200 as well, and want to start doing some auto body work, but I'm afraid of getting a set up that needs more CFM than the MAC5200 can produce. Thanks!





straight_lines said:


> 10 3 @ 50 psi max, but it depends on material and tip/needle size. Usually much less, and below 35ish psi is the sweet spot.
> 
> Makita MAC5200 Big Bore is what I have, and we use it for everything, its quiet and efficient. Will run several nail guns, but I have only really pushed it once or twice on big remodels.


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