# Rough stucco peeling - suggestions on surface prep?



## y.painting (Jul 19, 2009)

We don't see many stucco homes around here, so I thought perhaps some of you with more experience can comment.

I went to look at a stucco home today with quite a bit of peeling (see pics). About 50% of the home is in this shape. I am not even sure I will bid on this project at all as it looks like a total major PITA and the prep would have to be on a T&M basis (which I hate to begin with), but if anyone has any helpful hints or suggestions for how to *properly* prep this, I'm all ears. 

Blasting of some sort? Or just P/W + mechanical? Would an elastomeric help to bridge some of those cracks/peeling in the paint after the worst stuff is removed?


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

This interest me also. Like you, I don't do a lot of stucco. The few I have done I've treated them like any deteriorating masonry. My favorite prep item after removing the loose stuff, is Seal Krete Original. It really hardens and locks down the 'crumbling/chalking mortar. One similar to this I did has been holding well for 8 yrs.

To the stucco guys; is this the same issue as other masonry where the top can get loose and flaky causing failure? And anyone know of any prep sealers/hardeners other than seal krete? It's getting hard to get.


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

I can tell you that is the ugliest stucco I have ever seen and 95% of homes in CA have stucco.

For one, I would say that the pic of the side, not the close-ups looks like a horrible patch job or re-stucco job some time before it was painted. When painted they must have loaded on the paint. Way to much mils or some elastomeric.

To fix, I would say a ton of elbow grease with a big wire brush w/scraper attached would do the trick to get all the loose stuff off. Spray Peel Bond w/ a gallon of acrylic primer tinted to the finish color mixed in. Then coat with your favorite acrylic.

EDIT: Actually re-looking at the pics, this is probably a TexCoat type job. That crap elastomeric stuff sold for big $$$'s and a lifetime warranty. The stuff never lasts.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

I would use the regular Zinsser Peel Stop. You can order it online from Homedepot $20.97 per gallon free shipping on orders over $45


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## kmp (Jan 30, 2011)

Looks like an old type of stucco that is pebble aggregate, sand lots of lime and not much cement. If you pressure wash it be careful not to dig a hole in it as it can be pretty soft under the paint. Wire brushing will remove more than you want. Wash it easily ,patch as necessary, peel bond, finish with elastomeric. If it's got a chalky residue you might use a primer coat with emulsa-bond in it then peel bond then finish coat. You really have to glue that crap down.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Does Peel Bond/ Peel Stop have qualities to deal with the chalky/crumbly aspects of masonry like they say Loxon does? Or is that not the same issue with this


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

That could be water intrusion. If that's the case elasto would be a nogo. 

Have you determined what the existing coating is?

...


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## Delta Painting (Apr 27, 2010)

^^^^^That's what I say as well looks like water damage to me.


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## mustangmike3789 (Jun 11, 2011)

joshmays1976 said:


> This interest me also. Like you, I don't do a lot of stucco. The few I have done I've treated them like any deteriorating masonry. My favorite prep item after removing the loose stuff, is Seal Krete Original. It really hardens and locks down the 'crumbling/chalking mortar. One similar to this I did has been holding well for 8 yrs.
> 
> To the stucco guys; is this the same issue as other masonry where the top can get loose and flaky causing failure? And anyone know of any prep sealers/hardeners other than seal krete? It's getting hard to get.


i was on a job about a year ago when a contrator showed up with five buckets of seal-krete to lock down chalking paint on a repaint. before this, i wasn't familuar with the product so i decided to do a little research on it because the physical characteristics and smell of the product reminded me of products that i have used in the past. 
i had a decorative concrete company for several years and we used all types of pure resins and blends such as acrylics or pva's to modify concrete coatings such as stamped concrete overlays, micro-toppings for chemical staining, acrylic concrete textures and stencils. these were also the same types of additives that i would use when i did ceramic tile before the concrete business, such as acrylic mortar admix. the better/more durable coating systems always used acrylic resins.
i had some friends that were in the same type of work that also supplied other decking companys with bag mixes and resins. they would buy 55 gallons drums of resin and repack it in five gal buckets under thier own label with about 40% resin and the rest water. they would sell these for about $50-$60 per five. i thought about this when i saw the guy with the buckets of seal-krete. i could have went to porter paints and bought some buckets of their resin and made some watered down seal-krete for profit.

http://www.sealkrete.com/media/3125/Original_100812.pdf 
http://buyat.ppg.com/rep_pafpainttools_files/porter/tdb/pp3110.pdf


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## y.painting (Jul 19, 2009)

Thanks everyone for the ideas so far!



ewingpainting.net said:


> That could be water intrusion. If that's the case elasto would be a nogo.
> 
> Have you determined what the existing coating is?
> 
> ...


Judging from the old gallons the HO had in the basement (from previous owner), it's Superpaint. Looks like a single layer sprayed on pretty thick. Can't tell in these pics, but when looking at the home, there are areas with a bit of sagging and runs. Hard to tell if any priming was done. 

Can you explain the water intrusion? Assuming it is, what steps are recommended for this substrate?


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

I think it was painted before without any prep. and/or cleaning. Another thing is that Superpaint it has nothing super about it.


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## y.painting (Jul 19, 2009)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> I think it was painted before without any prep. and/or cleaning. Another thing is that Superpaint it has nothing super about it.


I agree, for the most part. Now, how to properly fix the issue...


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

y.painting said:


> Thanks everyone for the ideas so far!
> 
> Judging from the old gallons the HO had in the basement (from previous owner), it's Superpaint. Looks like a single layer sprayed on pretty thick. Can't tell in these pics, but when looking at the home, there are areas with a bit of sagging and runs. Hard to tell if any priming was done.
> 
> Can you explain the water intrusion? Assuming it is, what steps are recommended for this substrate?


3 ways water can get behind the coating. Coating failure, coating was not applied properly, or structural. 

If it were a coating failure it wouldn't be sporadic, the entire wall would be failing. Just like when a gallon of milk goes bad its nor just a glass of milk but the entire gallon so I would rule out coating failure. 

I can not see the structure so I could not determine if that's the case. 

From the pictures I can see there was no primer applied. This may not be the reason for the coating to lift as it may be a factor. A primer coat will promote adhesion and color retention. It also helps to combat alkalinity in stucco. If the stucco/patching was not fully cured when the coating was applied the high ph can push the coating off. This will also make the surface chalcky and/or create milky stains. 

Here is a senereo that I think it may be. The coating was applied at a high mill, probably one coat as you said. This can cause the coating to skin as the underlayer is still cureing. This will result in the outer layer to crack as the underlayer is shrinking. This will create points of entry for water intrusion. Ultimately causeing the coating to peel and blister. With no primer coat this can amplify the issue. The coating if it be superpaint is permable but the poor application forces the coating to work harder than it should ageing it faster. So what your seeing is a coating that can be as young as 3 years becoming a 80 year old sagging granny. 

The cure
Power wash, scrape, all lose peeling and blistering, apply stucco patch, prime with a adhesion primer with properties that can combat alkalinity like Fresh Start. top coat with at least 100% acrylic. I would not suggest a elastomeric only cause I can not determine if the structure is a good fit. Besides your issue is not hairline cracks as that is what elastomerics are designed for

...


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> I would use the regular Zinsser Peel Stop. You can order it online from Homedepot $20.97 per gallon free shipping on orders over $45


 :yes::thumbsup:


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

How does applying peel stop, stop the peeling?

...


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

ewingpainting.net said:


> How does applying peel stop, stop the peeling?
> 
> ...


It doesn't, you need to do some prep. my comment was more to address this question from Yaros. Peel stop can help with but you still need to pressure wash and scrape some paint.



y.painting said:


> Blasting of some sort? Or just P/W + mechanical? Would an elastomeric help to bridge some of those cracks/peeling in the paint after the worst stuff is removed?


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> It doesn't, you need to do some prep. my comment was more to address this question from Yaros. Peel stop can help with but you still need to pressure wash and scrape some paint.


In that case if you properly preped the surface, then why do you need to use peel stop?

...


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

ewingpainting.net said:


> In that case if you properly preped the surface, then why do you need to use peel stop?
> 
> ...


Gabriel he was saying after the worst stuff is removed. I don't know the HO's budget or/and Yaro's plan for this project. :thumbsup:


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> Gabriel he was saying after the worst stuff is removed. I don't know the HO's budget or/and Yaro's plan for this project. :thumbsup:


I was just inquiring. I an not a peel stop/bond fan. All it does is seal the edges. then the areas where the exsisting coating is not adhering becomes dependent on the elasticity "flexible" of the peel stop to. Another words its just 'hanging' on from the areas it actually bonds to the surface. If these areas break the real peeling begins. These products are mearly a 'elastomeric' primer. 

I haven't seen the perm ratings of peel stop but I know peel bond is very low. Add elastomeric to that and you have a potential disaster of trapping water behind the coatings. 

These products are deceiving, like scrubable flat is not washable.

...


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## mustangmike3789 (Jun 11, 2011)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> Gabriel he was saying after the worst stuff is removed. I don't know the HO's budget or/and Yaro's plan for this project. :thumbsup:


No need for peel stop if you have stopped the peeling by proper surface prep. It may lock down some loose edges but it will not stop paint from peeling by any means.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

mustangmike3789 said:


> No need for peel stop if you have stopped the peeling by proper surface prep. It may lock down some loose edges but it will not stop paint from peeling by any means.


I never said that. Again I don't really know what Yaros is going to do. The place looks like a rental I would pressure wash, peel stop if it needs it or a good mansonry primer and then apply 2 coats of Elastomeric.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> I never said that. Again I don't really know what Yaros is going to do. The place looks like a rental I would pressure wash, peel stop if it needs it or a good mansonry primer and then apply 2 coats of Elastomeric.


Please don't feel like I am attacking you, I'm not. I just know to much about these products. Mainly from failed experiences, not from peel stop or bond. Just in elastomerics. Experienceing one of those failures tends to make one real scarce, its not a cheap fix. 

Today I was in a paint store discussing colors for a elasto job I have coming up. The color is too dark for elasto, so the guy recommends top coating the elasto with 100% acrylic to achieve the color..:eeks: no thank you I'd rather not. Thank you and good bye

...


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Please don't feel like I am attacking you, I'm not. I just know to much about these products. Mainly from failed experiences, not from peel stop or bond. Just in elastomerics. Experienceing one of those failures tends to make one real scarce, its not a cheap fix.
> 
> Today I was in a paint store discussing colors for a elasto job I have coming up. The color is too dark for elasto, so the guy recommends top coating the elasto with 100% acrylic to achieve the color..:eeks: no thank you I'd rather not. Thank you and good bye
> 
> ...


I appreciate your comments, I have used Peeelbond on wood siding with great results but never on stucco, If it doesn't work a least Yaros and I know that by now. 

I hope he comes back and updates this thread or it might turn into one of those threads where we are killing each other and the OP never comes back and if he does is just to say he never got the job.


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## y.painting (Jul 19, 2009)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> I never said that. Again I don't really know what Yaros is going to do. The place looks like a rental I would pressure wash, peel stop if it needs it or a good mansonry primer and then apply 2 coats of Elastomeric.


It's not a rental - I do not paint rental properties. It's actually a cozy-looking little house. The current HO bought it a year ago from an older guy who went into a nursing home. It was painted about 10 years ago (only time it's been painted). The peeling was already present on the home when the current HO bought it, so I am not sure when it started peeling. She is not looking for a quick fix - she wants to do it properly.

I'm still am debating whether I want to bid on this...trying to get all of that lose stuff off will not be fun :/


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> I appreciate your comments, I have used Peeelbond on wood siding with great results but never on stucco, If it doesn't work a least Yaros and I know that by now.
> 
> I hope he comes back and updates this thread or it might turn into one of those threads where we are killing each other and the OP never comes back and if he does is just to say he never got the job.


I'm sure you have had success with it, but it only takes one....

...


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## y.painting (Jul 19, 2009)

I have never used peel bond/stop on stucco...this thread actually made me go read the product label to double check lol...like I said in the OP - we do not see much stucco around here. Mostly wood, aluminum, and vinyl. 



ewingpainting.net said:


> I'm sure you have had success with it, but it only takes one....
> 
> ...


Gabe, you don't trust it for leveling on properly prepped wood either?


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## mustangmike3789 (Jun 11, 2011)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Please don't feel like I am attacking you, I'm not. I just know to much about these products. Mainly from failed experiences, not from peel stop or bond. Just in elastomerics. Experienceing one of those failures tends to make one real scarce, its not a cheap fix.
> 
> Today I was in a paint store discussing colors for a elasto job I have coming up. The color is too dark for elasto, so the guy recommends top coating the elasto with 100% acrylic to achieve the color..:eeks: no thank you I'd rather not. Thank you and good bye
> 
> ...


Same here. Not trying to gang up. I feel the same way about some of these products. If there is poorly adhered paint, there is no top coat that can improve adhesion strength. I feel the same way about chalking paint and rust convertors. Chalking is caused by the deterioration of the binder/resin, once the adhesive bond and the cohesive strength has been compromised, I think that its best to remove any or all loose paint if needed. Top coating over loose paint or rust is a sure way to get a premature failure and a voided warranty if a warranty is worth anything anyway. Most paint failures are caused by poor surface preparation and these methods could be classified as that very easily by the manufacturer. Not only that, a manufacture will not stand behind anothers product even if it does what it says its supposed to do like in the case of chalk sealers and rust convertors that are nomally water based and can't handle being top coated by any paints that contain hot solvents.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

y.painting said:


> We don't see many stucco homes around here, so I thought perhaps some of you with more experience can comment.
> 
> I went to look at a stucco home today with quite a bit of peeling (see pics). About 50% of the home is in this shape. I am not even sure I will bid on this project at all as it looks like a total major PITA and the prep would have to be on a T&M basis (which I hate to begin with), but if anyone has any helpful hints or suggestions for how to *properly* prep this, I'm all ears.
> 
> Blasting of some sort? Or just P/W + mechanical? Would an elastomeric help to bridge some of those cracks/peeling in the paint after the worst stuff is removed?


My suggestion "peel out!"


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

y.painting said:


> I have never used peel bond/stop on stucco...this thread actually made me go read the product label to double check lol...like I said in the OP - we do not see much stucco around here. Mostly wood, aluminum, and vinyl.
> 
> Gabe, you don't trust it for leveling on properly prepped wood either?


If for leveling sure, not to stop peeling or top coating it with elastomeric

I am a believer of using primers recommended by the manufacture, product specific. So I would never even consider peel stop or bond. And for the matter I don't belive a manufacture would support you if using peel stop as a primer for their coatings. If you have a rep that recommend peel stop as a primer, say sw or bm. Ask for a written document to support their recommendation. I can guarantee they will not produce such a document.

Say if there is a failure, a manufacture will 1st ask you what products were used. As soon as you say a product outside of their recommendation. It's on you case closed!

...


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

mustangmike3789 said:


> Same here. Not trying to gang up. I feel the same way about some of these products. If there is poorly adhered paint, there is no top coat that can improve adhesion strength. I feel the same way about chalking paint and rust convertors. Chalking is caused by the deterioration of the binder/resin, once the adhesive bond and the cohesive strength has been compromised, I think that its best to remove any or all loose paint if needed. Top coating over loose paint or rust is a sure way to get a premature failure and a voided warranty if a warranty is worth anything anyway. Most paint failures are caused by poor surface preparation and these methods could be classified as that very easily by the manufacturer. Not only that, a manufacture will not stand behind anothers product even if it does what it says its supposed to do like in the case of chalk sealers and rust convertors that are nomally water based and can ant handle being top coated by any paints that contain hot solvents.


Good call, rust convertors, peel stop, paint and primer in one. All products to get away from properly preping a surface and form bad prepping habits.

...


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## mustangmike3789 (Jun 11, 2011)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Good call, rust convertors, peel stop, paint and primer in one. All products to get away from properly preping a surface and form bad prepping habits.
> 
> ...


Dead on. No miracle cure here.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

How can you call it stucco when it peels?:blink:


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## y.painting (Jul 19, 2009)

The paint is peeling.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

y.painting said:


> The paint is peeling.


Hooked another one, didn't ya Mudbone! :yes:


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