# colour configuration



## ptbopainter (Sep 10, 2013)

I'm painting this porch... and I think the way the colour is on now is out of order. I realize that you can do whatever you want but I figure the last order was the painter's idea not the HO's.
So I'm looking for opinions:
You can see in the one picture that the dentil is painted with the main beige colour and then the lower facia there is painted with the green. That leaves this weird green stripe under the long beige trim piece at the bottom. Also you can kind of see that the shutters are painted beige. I was going to put it to the HO's when they come back that the facia should be the main beige colour and that the trim piece should be green (getting rid of the weird green stripe), paint the shutters green and even goof around with the dentil a bit, paint it green on the beige background. 
I'm curious what others would do!
Thanks for any opinions


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## Boco (May 18, 2013)

I just applicate. For design i charge big bucks.:thumbup:


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I don't have one designer bone in my body.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Six of one, half a dozen of the other. Regardless, ask and listen to the HO concerning their preference. Unless you have it in writing that they want you to decide you could be on the hook for a redo if they aren't happy.


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## Delta Painting (Apr 27, 2010)

Just do what the customer likes that way you are not on the hook if they don't like what YOU think is the best color configuration for the home..


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

The only opinion you should be looking for is the person who hired you, unless they're asking for suggestions, input or help. Sure, you could try and steer em one way or another, but the ultimate decision is theirs, NOT yours, and sure as hell not mine. 

Sometimes we all end up painting colors that make us throw-up in our mouths a little, but paint colors are subjective and relative to each individual. 

I once painted a house pink on the upper half and lobster-red on the lower half for this little old lady and she was pleased as punch.

After they've chosen colors, color-scheme and signed off on the color samples we put up, I focus my attention to the job at hand. I think it's important to specify in the contract which portions of the home are to be painted body, trim, accent, etc., (as well as sheen, exact paint brand, line,etc.). Don't leave any room for misinterpretation. I take the time to specify every last detail and have the custy sign off on it so I know I'm gettin paid as soon as I finish, unless they wanna pay me to change it. 




Stelzer Painting Inc.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Delta Painting said:


> Just do what the customer likes that way you are not on the hook if they don't like what YOU think is the best color configuration for the home..


As a painter without any design abilities, let alone any measurable qualifications that would validate my competency of design, I practice the same thing as Delta Painting. I leave color choices and schemes to the customer, or better yet, to a design expert.


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## Painter-Aaron (Jan 17, 2013)

Is it kind of ironic that you think the last painter made his own choice in colour scheme and did it wrong and now the OP wants to do their own choice?


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

While I generally hold to the the old painters' maxim, "It's all white to me," picking out the recesses in the dentils seems pretty obnoxious, not to mention a PITA to do.


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## ptbopainter (Sep 10, 2013)

Gough said:


> While I generally hold to the the old painters' maxim, "It's all white to me," picking out the recesses in the dentils seems pretty obnoxious, not to mention a PITA to do.


You're right I just thought it would be fun! I won't even bring it up


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## ptbopainter (Sep 10, 2013)

To clarify:

I will not do anything without the HO's consent.
The original paint job happened twelve years ago and they just asked me to repaint it, same colours. 
No big deal.
Just looking for opinions from you folks.
I think it would look better without that pointless green stripe and the fact that it's out of order bugs me. Again no big deal

For all I know they planned the layout over 6 years using computer mock-ups
Or... something else happened
Thanks for your feedback!


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## Toolnut (Nov 23, 2012)

One of the first statements to new or potential customers is " I don't do colors."


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Toolnut said:


> One of the first statements to new or potential customers is " I don't do colors."


If they desire it I'm happy to make what I call, "gentle suggestions" (a term a customer once used to describe what I'd told them about colors for their place). But I make it clear the final decision is theirs to make and sign off on.


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## ptbopainter (Sep 10, 2013)

I have gotten asked for my opinion on colours quite a few times and been asked to pick colours. I never have the final say of course (and I don't want it) but it's fun to bang ideas back and forth, it helps to get to know the HO too which is a bonus. 

It's funny how when a designer gets paid to pick the colours the HO just trusts them even if they don't agree and then the colours go on and you watch the HO really mulling it over: do they hate it, do they love it, will I have to repaint it....?

The colours of this porch make me want to vom but since they've been staring at them for so long and they still want the same colours again I know enough to shut up with regard to colour choice!


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## Boco (May 18, 2013)

Anytime HO asked me if I like the color. Looks great. Doesnt matter if its Caution yellow in a a bedroom room or Paris Hilton Pink in a dining room. Looks great and last forever.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

We do not ever just pick colors. We ask the HO their color range and help them choose a few colors. The HO has the final say.

That strip house we did we spent 3-4 hours with the HO just going over color choices. The wife had final say, the husband only wanted the wife happy. We just wanted to paint it.


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

cdpainting said:


> We do not ever just pick colors. We ask the HO their color range and help them choose a few colors. The HO has the final say.
> 
> That strip house we did we spent 3-4 hours with the HO just going over color choices. *The wife had final say, the husband only wanted the wife happy.* We just wanted to paint it.


Isn't that a universal truth, akin to the sun rising in the East and setting in the West?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

It would be interesting to have Birch Tree Painting weigh in. He includes design as well as painting in his introduction.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

I can't imagine _not_ helping them pick colors. They're willing to pay me thousands of dollars to paint their home. The least I can do is steer them in the right direction.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Bender said:


> I can't imagine not helping them pick colors. They're willing to pay me thousands of dollars to paint their home. The least I can do is steer them in the right direction.



The thing is, some of us don't know what the right direction is


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## Boco (May 18, 2013)

Its just a can of worms I would rather not open. Its a good way to hurt HOs feelings. If do give advice it would be to have them pick up a list of 2014 top 100 colors from SW and choose from there.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

If asked, I'll give opinions/advice about color choice(s) and placement, but only after getting some sense of the client's general preference. I've also learned to not take it personally if they ignore that advice.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I just sense that unless you are a competent color consultant that offers that kind of service in some form of official capacity, there is a level of liability you un-necessarily assume if it doesn't turn out to the customers liking.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

CApainter said:


> I just sense that unless you are a competent color consultant that offers that kind of service in some form of official capacity, there is a level of liability you un-necessarily assume if it doesn't turn out to the customers liking.


To clarify: I'll offer suggestions, they make the final decision, typically after seeing samples _in situ._. At least around here, there's not an officially recognized credential for Color Consultant.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I suppose most homeowners believe house painters are automatically qualified to offer color suggestions based on their experience painting other homes. And exposure does qualify as learning. I just never caught on to design with enough confidence to offer my preferences to a paying customer.


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## ptbopainter (Sep 10, 2013)

One thing I really find interesting that we the painters can appreciate is how the colours separate into their different components in the pail. You know when you leave a roller in the water for a while, then when you start pouring out the bucket you see what makes that colour what it is. Like the green or the pink really come out even though it's caramel brown. And then you can see it all in the paint and imagine the parts. 
Plus we've seen what the colours look like on 4 different walls in four different lights. 
The people that ask me (and lots of you too) about colour are worried they are going to make a mistake and are looking for reassurance and that's a pretty cool part of the job to be part of that whole abstract process. I went to school for art and nobody knows that so they just reach out as a reflex. 
Maybe it's only 1 in 10 customers that you get to have the conversation with but it's fun when you do.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

ptbopainter said:


> One thing I really find interesting that we the painters can appreciate is how the colours separate into their different components in the pail. You know when you leave a roller in the water for a while, then when you start pouring out the bucket you see what makes that colour what it is. Like the green or the pink really come out even though it's caramel brown. And then you can see it all in the paint and imagine the parts.
> Plus we've seen what the colours look like on 4 different walls in four different lights.
> The people that ask me (and lots of you too) about colour are worried they are going to make a mistake and are looking for reassurance and that's a pretty cool part of the job to be part of that whole abstract process. I went to school for art and nobody knows that so they just reach out as a reflex.
> Maybe it's only 1 in 10 customers that you get to have the conversation with but it's fun when you do.


I would consider your time at art school, measurably qualifies you as formally trained in color theory. And therefore, a competent color consultant with a special painting tool. 

Even though I consider myself extremely competent when it comes to tinting colors in the field and matching just about any paint or textile, I can't seem to coordinate them in a scheme.


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## Boco (May 18, 2013)

i always try and get all the paint colors before any painting begins. Of course I will give same samples if they want but I dont order or pick up any paint till I get the nod. HO goes to store, HO picks up samples, HO picks up any color changes, HO becomes more involved with project. I then get to do what I am being paid for.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

For nearly every job, we put up samples, at least a pint, more often a quart, for approval. We give the client a few days to see them under various lighting conditions.

Most clients seem to have trouble extrapolating from a paint chip on a fan deck to a whole room.

Does that cost a little extra? Yes. Is it cheaper than repainting the whole project after they realize their mistake? A little bit.


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## Boco (May 18, 2013)

Is it wrong of me to hope for a few color changes and make some extra profit?


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

I think how much you are willing to discuss colors depends on your comfort level. I feel I have a pretty good feel for color so I don't mind sharing my take on them _if asked_. You just need to be low key about it and not push your opinions on them (unlike many decorators I've come up against).


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Boco said:


> Is it wrong of me to hope for a few color changes and make some extra profit?


I thought about that just as I was finishing up the previous post. There *used* to be some outfits around here that took that approach.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

RH said:


> I think how much you are willing to discuss colors depends on your comfort level. I feel I have a pretty good feel for color so I don't mind sharing my take on them _if asked_. You just need to be low key about it and not push your opinions on them (*unlike many decorators I've come up against*).


Yea, but they're trained professionals. :whistling2:


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

RH said:


> I think how much you are willing to discuss colors depends on your comfort level. I feel I have a pretty good feel for color so I don't mind sharing my take on them _if asked_. You just need to be low key about it and not push your opinions on them (unlike many decorators I've come up against).


I've seen too many decorators push their tastes on clients, we've given up on them. There is only one designer that we work with now and we'll hire her if the client is really struggling with color choice/placement. Her first step is work with the client to see what the client likes.


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## Toolnut (Nov 23, 2012)

I have done jobs I thought were going to come out horrible using HO's colors. Then when done looked fantastic, had it been up to me I would have tried to talk them out of it. Also did some of my color combos I thought be great, when done looked like the north end of a south bound skunk. Lesson learned I don't do colors.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

CApainter said:


> Yea, but they're trained professionals. :whistling2:


Trained, yes - but not neccesarily in the real world. Two jobs I had dealing with decorators come to mind. 

One was the painting of an office which was located in a 30's era house. Neat room - lots of character. It also has an abundance of odd little walls spaces that the decorator decided would look good all being painted in different colors. I think there were fourteen of them in all. The results looked "interesting". It was also funny that the office was that of a psychiatrist - not the most calming effect one might wish to have for that kind of use.

The second was the painting of a kitchen belonging to an elderly couple. The decorator had convinced them that doing the walls in a BM metallic copper would look wonderful. The couple had one of the sample sheets and were convinced (by guess who?) that the end result would be their walls looking just like that. I had to explain that because of the type of application available, and the heavy knockdown texture of their walls, that although the end result might be end up being "interesting", it wouldn't likely be anything like their sample.


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## ptbopainter (Sep 10, 2013)

The last designer I crossed paths with charges $95/hr so the HO was anxious to get the intro chatting out of the way fast so she could pick the colours and trim for the house. Because the windows in the living and dining rooms were so tall she suggested that the regular sized crown molding wouldn't fit and they'd have to go with a smaller size. Then she suggested the ceiling be light grey ( a really nice colour) the crown molding a bit darker grey and the walls an even darker grey. It might have looked ok except the crown molding was so thin it looked pretty crummy. The carpenter who came in later to put up the wainscoting made sure I knew he had nothing to do with the cr (it was put up by the brother-in-laws work buddies)! He said had it been him he would have made the right size work, and that it's embarrassing how small it is. But the HO was so convinced of this person's opinion that she never entertained other options. In the end I painted the cr the same colour as the ceiling which helped but what a waste it still looks wrong (it's a beautiful house from 1860 and the cr looks like a cheap weekend project). I asked her if the designer would come back and make sure what she suggested turned out well and she said: no, the woman has a master's degree she already knows it will work. If I ever by some miracle get rich I don't think I'll go the designer route.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

I try and stay completely out of the way in terms of any form of colour choices. "I'll paint your walls Kermit the frog green if you ask me to." is a standard response I use.

A woman I painted for once picked a colour from a lower end brand of paint, but wanted the work done in BM. She went to the store and was involved in the colour matching process, I stayed out of it. Initially she was very happy with the way things were going until the last day of the job which entailed the entire main floor of her house. She finally approached me and said there was a slight hint of blue in the colour that she couldn't live with. Wanted me to redo the whole thing at her expense.

I drove over several days of work using BM regal with the lower end brand of paint and she was ecstatic with the results. I personally didn't notice any colour difference.

She was a little bit insane.


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## Boco (May 18, 2013)

She was a little bit insane.. Arent they all. She reminds me of a customer who called cops on me because i didnt show up to work on a Saturday. Anyway same lady had over 50 color samples for a 1400sqft addition. Ended up having crown moulding with 4 colors and gold leaf pinstripe. Walls were mostly Suede paint from sw in various colors for each room. Ceilings were all tinted to match suede. Doors and trim tinted 50% to ceiling. Honestly she must of spent 2k on full gal samples. She had it in her head that her house would be featured in Home and gardens but TBH she was Bat**** Crazy.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

After some discussion with my wife on a complete interior repaint of our own home (currently brown tones), I've come to the conclusion that design is dependent on a committed or non committal personality that takes into consideration continuity, regardless of ones preference of design and or decoration. 

*Committed*

Purchasing very expensive furniture and accessories, that may be of a particular period or contemporary style, can be considered a commitment. Since typically it is more appealing to view things that share something in common or have continuity, it would be important to make certain that the color of walls and ceilings not only balance with fixed features like floors and cabinets, but also compliment those expensive furnishings and accessories. A wall canvas of different complimentary colors can work for the committed personality. 

However, a commitment requires a formula that works. In this case, a color formula that works with everything else that won't be changed in the near future.

*Non Committal*

If a homeowner is anything like my wife, in that they would rather replace furnishings and accessories more frequently throughout the years (Pier 1 Imports and IKEA) then a neutral canvass, like white, would be the best approach.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Jmayspaint said:


> The thing is, some of us don't know what the right direction is


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1oaXqBJRRQ


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

CApainter said:


> After some discussion with my wife on a complete interior repaint of our own home (currently brown tones), I've come to the conclusion that design is dependent on a committed or non committal personality that takes into consideration continuity, regardless of ones preference of design and or decoration.
> 
> *Committed*
> 
> ...


Is a "neutral canvass" when the results of the poll or survey are tied?? Just wondering.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Gough said:


> Is a "neutral canvass" when the results of the poll or survey are tied?? Just wondering.


It was supposed to be an all white interior until now deciding to go with a white ceiling and trim throughout, and an alternate white color, like Dove White, on the walls. I can tell already I'd be a problem paint customer.

What combo of whites would you members, with a design aptitude, choose?


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

CApainter said:


> It was supposed to be an all white interior until we now decided to go with a white ceiling and trim throughout, and an alternate white color, like Dove White, on the walls. I can tell already I'd be a problem paint customer.
> 
> What combo of whites would you members, with a design aptitude, choose?


Sorry, I was making light of "canvass" versus "canvas".

What we call "gallery white": W-6Y, if the base will allow it.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Gough said:


> Sorry, I was making light of "canvass" versus "canvas".
> 
> What we call "gallery white": W-6Y, if the base will allow it.


No problem. Some days I'm better at managing my illiteracy then others.

I'm grabbing a BM color deck tomorrow. Right now I have Keystone White (Valspar) on the ceiling. I know, guilty as charged. But Loews is right down the block from me, and I have a twenty thousand dollar credit limit on their card.

My daughter suggested going with a contrasting white on all the walls. I tend to agree with her, and believe she has a lot better grasp of design than me. Or her mom. (Should I have used "then" rather than "than"?:blink 

Thanks in advance for the grammatical help!


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I chose this thread as a human shield to protect my post, and others, from becoming collateral damage due to a DIY lockdown.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

OC-17 White Dove


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

CApainter said:


> No problem. Some days I'm better at managing my illiteracy then others.
> 
> I'm grabbing a BM color deck tomorrow. Right now I have Keystone White (Valspar) on the ceiling. I know, guilty as charged. But Loews is right down the block from me, and I have a twenty thousand dollar credit limit on their card.
> 
> ...


Sorry for the thread drift.

Given how different two adjacent surfaces look due to lighting alone, I'm not a fan of the "contrasting white" approach. We just finished one project like that, for instance, and I'm not sure anyone can tell that the ceiling and walls are two different whites. White Dove is one of them, but I can't remember the other one. I do know that the wall color, when wet, is indistinguishable from the ceiling color when it's dry


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## ptbopainter (Sep 10, 2013)

Have you ever used the CC-50 white down? It's really nice and gentle.
Also are you looking for wall and trim whites or just wall?
I always like to check the farrow and ball colour deck because it's so small and straightforward and it's such a hit with the designers that there are tons of images of each colour on google


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## ptbopainter (Sep 10, 2013)

Gough said:


> Sorry for the thread drift.
> 
> Given how different two adjacent surfaces look due to lighting alone, I'm not a fan of the "contrasting white" approach. We just finished one project like that, for instance, and I'm not sure anyone can tell that the ceiling and walls are two different whites. White Dove is one of them, but I can't remember the other one. *I do know that the wall color, when wet, is indistinguishable from the ceiling color when it's dry*


That is so frustrating!


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

ptbopainter said:


> Have you ever used the CC-50 white down? It's really nice and gentle.
> Also are you looking for wall and trim whites or just wall?
> I always like to check the farrow and ball colour deck because it's so small and straightforward and it's such a hit with the designers that there are tons of images of each colour on google


I'm keeping the ceiling and trim the same. They are currently Keystone white, but the walls are a brown hue. The master bedroom is all KM antique white from top to bottom. It's a nice color, But the wife likes the white I painted in the kitchen skylight I built.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Heres after drywall and taping. Don't laugh at my DIY taping pan!


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## ptbopainter (Sep 10, 2013)

I almost feel that talking about this is encouraging you to lose too many weekends to work at home.
After just having a too busy weekend and looking down the pipe at work tomorrow I feel I should encourage you to put off the colour decision for as long as possible...


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

ptbopainter said:


> I almost feel that talking about this is encouraging you to lose too many weekends to work at home.
> After just having a too busy weekend and looking down the pipe at work tomorrow I feel I should encourage you to put off the colour decision for as long as possible...


Thanks for the good advice, but I've already made the commitment! I'm also going to open up the living room ceiling like I did the kitchen (It'll be four and a half times bigger!). After breaking ground today, I'm looking at December 31 for a completion of everything. 

It's going to be a long rest of the year. I've already prescribed myself some high end Bourbon. j/k

Actually, my wife is really stoked and the value in that is priceless.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Very Cool John!


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## ptbopainter (Sep 10, 2013)

CApainter said:


> Thanks for the good advice, but I've already made the commitment! I'm also going to open up the living room ceiling like I did the kitchen (It'll be four and a half times bigger!). After breaking ground today, I'm looking at December 31 for a completion of everything.
> 
> It's going to be a long rest of the year. I've already prescribed myself some high end Bourbon. j/k
> 
> Actually, my wife is really stoked and the value in that is priceless.


Sounds and looks like it's going to be incredible!
Good luck with all the work. That's a huge task but the payoff will be a million times bigger
Cheers


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

If one has a good color eye, even slightly different hues, shades, and values on adjacent surfaces can make a long and lasting difference. 

As you all know, ceilings are often "thrown" toward the walls so that they "appear" white. To some this can make a vast difference to their color sense of balance. While others couldn't tell the difference between Navajo and White Dove if right next to each other.

I always loved working with people whose color eye equaled and even exceeded mine.


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## ptbopainter (Sep 10, 2013)

*update*

Just thought I'd update everyone about this porch.
I spoke to the HO's about the colour placement when they got back from vacation (in a very respectful way, actually we laughed a lot they're really funny).
I suggested fiddling with the green, making the shutters green instead of beige and switching green for beige in the middle section. I also suggested pulling the red from the door and windows into the porch by making a red band on the pillars. The Mom HO loved that idea and said make the balls on top red too 
So I did.
They said the colour configuration is how it was when they bought the house and the last painter just painted it the same way. So now...
They LOVE their porch, they are really happy. And because the balls are red and the neighbourhood is very open and friendly lots of people walk or drive by and stop and tell them how much they love their red balls. Or the Dad HO just goes right ahead and asks people: "Hey do you like my red balls?"
Over all it's been a really great experience! And I think they were really excited to be a part of an unforeseen creative decision. They liked the colours and wanted them the same but hadn't thought about the configuration at all. 
ps the front steps aren't done but will be shortly. Anyone else totally behind because of all the rain?


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