# Another bubbling paint thread (pics included)



## STAR (Nov 26, 2010)

Hey guys, I'm having a problem with a job I'm currently working on and need some advice. This is a new construction home with poplar trim for the baseboards, casings and jams. The doors I beleive are MDF and are already pre primed.
I primed all the woodwork including the doors with a latex acrylic primer. Sanded everything, caulked, dusted off and sprayed with SW All Surface Enamel semigloss. Almost immediately when spraying the finish tiny bubbles appeared on certain parts of the doors, casing and windows. What is bizzare none of the baseboards had any bubbles, anywhere.

The house has the AC on and the temperature is set to 70° with 50% relative humidity. I'm spraying with an Airlessco LP540 using a 210FF tip and no thinning of the paint. After spraying the first coat I sanded out all the bubbles and sprayed again. On the second coat I didn't get as many bubbles, just in a few areas.

Here are some pictures minutes after spraying:

This is the casing









This is the top corner of the door









This is the temporary hinges









This is the bottom of the frame showing the floor covered with paper and tape









This is the product used









I've never used this product before, but it has a nice finish almost like an oil. The primer was not from SW, but I don't think it would be an issue. I've used the same primer on other jobs with other top coats and no issues.
I still have plenty of work left in this home and cannot continue like this. Looking for suggestions on what you may think caused this problem.

Thanks


----------



## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

HINGE PAINTER !!!.........................



:hang:


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

No idea mate. 

Call your SW rep and have him look at it. If nothing else you should get comped some paint for the pita.




Ole34 said:


> HINGE PAINTER !!!.........................
> 
> 
> 
> :hang:


He said it was a temp hinge.


----------



## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

straight_lines said:


> He said it was a temp hinge.


 
oppps didnt see that in between the pics ............but still 



TEMP HINGE PAINTER !!! 


:hang:


----------



## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

We had a similar issue with SW primer a few years ago, here is another thread. Had the rep out and they explained that it was chemicals in the primer outgassing. What primer was it?


----------



## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Same thing happened to Dean. What was he using?


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Bender is spot on, this condition is called "the veltman effect".


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

how long between the primer and finish paint?

what brand primer and what kind of primer (i know you said latex but want detailed info on primer)


----------



## STAR (Nov 26, 2010)

Ole34 said:


> oppps didnt see that in between the pics ............but still
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There really is no better way to do it! The doors are solid core some of them 7' high, you will cause more damage moving them around. This way once everything is painted remove temporary hinges and replace with new. After several jobs just place hinges in a bucket with stripper and paint will dissappear. 



RCP said:


> We had a similar issue with SW primer a few years ago, here is another thread. Had the rep out and they explained that it was chemicals in the primer outgassing. What primer was it?


Primer is a Canadian brand made by Denault. It is private labelled for a local company. Just finished another house with this primer before working on current project and had no problems.
Spoke with the manager at the SW store and he suggested trying their all surface primer/sealer. The only reason I chose SW is because the builder insisted on that brand and it had to be low voc. This product meets that criteria and provides a smooth tough durable finish.

I've spoken to a few people and some have suggested the following possible causes:

- moisture in substrate
- no foaming agent in finish paint
- off gasing from primer
- primer not sealing substrate

Its very frustrating when you put alot of time and effort into doing a good job only to have it ruined in minutes! Not to mention the pressure of finishing in a short deadline...no room for error


----------



## STAR (Nov 26, 2010)

Bender said:


> Same thing happened to Dean. What was he using?


Dean, we need you here!



TJ Paint said:


> how long between the primer and finish paint?
> 
> what brand primer and what kind of primer (i know you said latex but want detailed info on primer)


3 days between primer and finish.


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

STAR said:


> Dean, we need you here!
> 
> 
> 
> 3 days between primer and finish.


you shoulda used Coverstain, or if you needed low voc, something like the new bullseye 123 low voc, or actually theres a low odor oil zinnser for interior now available. 

If the wood was not dry before priming, that could be an issue. 

Looks like it could be a bad batch of paint.

Looks like theres bubbles on the paper on the floor too where you have overspray, which may indicate it has nothing to do with the primer or substrate. Could just be the paint or something with your sprayer.
Do you use that sprayer to spray oil based finishes? Or do you keep that sprayer for wb only?


----------



## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

It's a surfactant 'package' issue - they're using sub-grade surfactants that don't go back down again. Think of soaps that foam vs. those that don't foam - you got one that foams. I've heard if you throw in a shot of mineral spirits into your paint pot, it will cure the problem. If you ever wondered what goes into a more costly can of paint vs. a cheaper one, and if there is really a difference - now you have your answer.

As to a latex primer under a topcoat - I have run into many incompatible products over the years. Unless you previously test something out on your own - you can never know what the results will be. You can rest assured that an oil based primer that any latex from any manufacturer can go over it no issues.


----------



## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

On another note, has anyone noticed there is more and more french on labels of paint? Same thing with a can of California I was using last week, one side of the can was french the other side was english.


----------



## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

plainpainter said:


> On another note, has anyone noticed there is more and more french on labels of paint? Same thing with a can of California I was using last week, one side of the can was french the other side was english.



Probably thank the Canadians for that. Our laws stipulate that labels have to be bilingual. Maybe the economy the way it is they don't bother changing the label for both markets?


----------



## propainterJ (Jan 31, 2011)

In Ca they're in Spanish.


I now know what ALTO means(stop)


----------



## STAR (Nov 26, 2010)

TJ Paint said:


> you shoulda used Coverstain, or if you needed low voc, something like the new bullseye 123 low voc, or actually theres a low odor oil zinnser for interior now available.
> 
> If the wood was not dry before priming, that could be an issue.
> 
> ...


The wood was delivered long before I started to prime it. It has climatized to the house and as mentioned humidy was a constant 50%. I have not used an oil base finish with my gun for a few years now. I did however use some Liquid Mask recently, but its not solvent based.
The kicker here is seeing bubbles on the paper and tape that has been laid around the door frame. I think its the SW paint


----------



## pinchegordo (Jul 3, 2011)

STAR said:


> The kicker here is seeing bubbles on the paper and tape that has been laid around the door frame. I think its the SW paint


Yep it's the paint .... I get these type of anomalies from time to time. B$&ch at your SW rep they're usually good about throwing you some paint to fix it or at least a good discount


----------



## mustangmike3789 (Jun 11, 2011)

STAR said:


> There really is no better way to do it! The doors are solid core some of them 7' high, you will cause more damage moving them around. This way once everything is painted remove temporary hinges and replace with new. After several jobs just place hinges in a bucket with stripper and paint will dissappear.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i feel that this is a gassing issue or incompatible primer and possibly moisture. other symptoms that look like this are not likely: oil, chemical salts, cathodic disbonding.


----------



## Precision-TBay (Jun 1, 2011)

Looking at the pics, I cant help but think this paint is on extremely thick and heavy. I wouldnt doubt this has something to do with it. This would take way to long to dry and no doubt create moisture issues of its own.


----------



## propainterJ (Jan 31, 2011)

What a pita,what'd you do?Wet sand?I had that once,ran a short napped weenie roller through it while it was wet,took care of it.


----------



## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

Paint does look like it went on too thick. Air pressure may be too high as well, trapping air under your coating.


----------

