# Best primer over oil?



## sir paintalot

I am painting a kitchen next week. The existing paint is a semi gloss oil. The HO wants me to use latex for the finish coat. I want to get some opinions on what primer to use.

I have used Zinsser Odorless before, works ok but REALLY splatters.
Bullseye 1-2-3 mmmmm just can't bring myself to put this over oil I know I know it's gotta cure etc., but when it scrapes off the next day with my fingernail I just can't handle that....same with ICI Gripper.
Zinsser Cover Stain, never used it but apparently it STINKS!
Zinsser B-I-N, I can't handle the STINK and it's SO watery!
KILZ again MAJOR FUMES

Guess I'm looking for the "MIRACLE Primer"

Ideas??


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## Workaholic

I would scuff sand and prep accordingly and prime with an oil primer like you have already mentioned. 

Are we talking walls or trim? Not that it matters I am just curious.


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## Rcon

You talking walls or the cabinets?


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## Roadog

I really like SW Adhesive primer (water base). It brushes and rolls well. Claims to adhere to oil finishes without sanding. I still scuff sanded, but it locked on great.


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## sir paintalot

I'm painting the walls and trim but NOT the cabinets.


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## PaintMe201

you could try insl-x primelock.. excellent oil primer


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## CApainter

Like Workaholic says, use a quick drying oil base primer, it'll reek alot less. 

Because a kitchen is so suseptable to surface contamination from grease and oil, a water base primer may be pushing its limits on this type of surface. And do you ever get the walls and ceilings that clean with TSP? Unless, there is an environmental concern like a homeowners sensitivity to solvents, or small chidren present, an oil base primer would give you the best insurance for adhesion.


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## CApainter

"suceptable" is that how it's spelled?:blink: I think some vapors breached my respirator today


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## sir paintalot

thanks for the replies I think I'm gonna go Zinsser Odorless despite the heavy splatter problem, HO has gone ahead and put in new flooring BEFFORE painting...man I HATE when they do that! Oh well working per hour on this one(45) so I don't mind masking off the floor.


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## Last Craftsman

sir paintalot said:


> thanks for the replies I think I'm gonna go Zinsser Odorless despite the heavy splatter problem,


Still plan on wearing your respirator and setting up a box fan sucking fumes out the window.

Oderless doesn't necessarily mean it won't still fry your nervous system, it just means you won't smell it while it is happening.


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## CApainter

Last Craftsman said:


> Still plan on wearing your respirator and setting up a box fan sucking fumes out the window.
> 
> Oderless doesn't necessarily mean it won't still fry your nervous system, it just means you won't smell it while it is happening.


Good advice.


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## SterlingPainting

I just finished a job that was all oil walls, and we had to prime' I used cloverdale "foundation coat" worked great, and it's waterborne.


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## woodtradesman

sir paintalot said:


> ...it scrapes off the next day with my fingernail I just can't handle that....same with ICI Gripper.



Did you scuff the walls when you used the gripper? it should have worked.


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## plainpainter

sir paintalot said:


> I am painting a kitchen next week. The existing paint is a semi gloss oil. The HO wants me to use latex for the finish coat. I want to get some opinions on what primer to use.
> 
> 
> Bullseye 1-2-3 mmmmm just can't bring myself to put this over oil I know I know it's gotta cure etc., but when it scrapes off the next day with my fingernail I just can't handle that....same with ICI Gripper.
> 
> 
> Ideas??


You are telling me if you pole sand those semigloss oil walls, clean up the dust, that the Gripper will come off with your fingernails? BULL SHEET!

You have no experience with that primer if you think that's the case - that stuff locks onto window glass for crying out loud.

Are there any real painters left in the painting world anymore?


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## Tonyg

@Dan - not every wall is a smooth wall that is sandable. Textured walls or semi-rough plaster walls are fairly common, and almost the rule in many areas outside of the NE. I've seen that dogmatic answer before and it is just not true in every circumstance.

@Sir Paint - I personally don't like the Zinnser Odor Less as I didnt think it sanded well or bonded well. I typically will use the Bullseye Odorless or just the BM Fast Drying Alkyd.


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## S.Indiana

I think the only waterbourne I've felt close to being comfortable putting over oil is Insl-X STIX Bonding Primer. Still has a stink to it and a little thin but bonds great.


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## plainpainter

Tonyg said:


> @Dan - not every wall is a smooth wall that is sandable. Textured walls or semi-rough plaster walls are fairly common, and almost the rule in many areas outside of the NE. I've seen that dogmatic answer before and it is just not true in every circumstance.


Well that's a good point - then I'd think about a TSP wash - then gripper.


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## Roadog

Try the SW Adhesive Primer......I've tried all the ones listed above, this is my new favorite!


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## Picky Painter

I like to use Poly-Prep1 wb primer for oil-latex conversions, it rolls well and passes scratch and adhesion tests with flying colours. *HOWEVER!* Last summer I did a 50 year old plaster kitchen which I TSP'd liberally and when I went to roll my wall paint over this primer it fish-eyed horribly, the grease in the wall near the stove came right through the primer. Since this is a kitchen you're working on I would take the recommendation to use oil.


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## WAGGZ

I use a lot of Zinser Cover Stain. Had good luck with it, will switch when it runs out.


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## sir paintalot

plainpainter said:


> You are telling me if you pole sand those semigloss oil walls, clean up the dust, that the Gripper will come off with your fingernails? BULL SHEET!
> 
> You have no experience with that primer if you think that's the case - that stuff locks onto window glass for crying out loud.
> 
> Are there any real painters left in the painting world anymore?


Appreciate your opinion....as pompous, arrogant, and condescending as it is.


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## Last Craftsman

If you are going to wear your respirator/use a fan any way, just use what works best.

I have never rolled walls with oil coverstain, but I imagine if you mixed a little paint thinner with it, it would glide right along with a small nap roller.

Better yet, just spray the kitchen. That's what I would do, unless there are people living in the house.

Coverstain eats grease. I would still wash it, but you have way more room for error. Any WB will have a problem with even small amounts of surface grease.

That way all your prep time can all be done without a respirator, and you can just put your respirator on for 15 minutes to spray the kitchen out, and be out of there before it even starts kicking.

Turn on the fan and leave it sucking fumes out all night. Unless it's really cold, then I would crank the heat and let it kick all night, then suck out the fumes for a day afterwards. Depends on if there is furniture etc. in the house.

Also if you are spraying, you could think about using the bin. You could suck most of those fumes out in two hours.

Do what ever it takes to not blow the place up, it might be a good idea to suck the fumes out for a couple hours, even if you plan on shutting the house up for the night to let the primer kick.

Make sure you have a window open somewhere with as uninhibited flow to the window with the fan as possible. The opening going out should match the opening going in or the air flow will cavitate, and will not set up an efficient draft. Sometimes I make the inlet a little smaller, but not much, that seems to increase the vacuum/the power of the draft.

Also plug up the space around the box fan with cardboard so the fan won't cavitate in the window it is sitting in.

I reduce coverstain oil with paint thinner a little when spraying, lays down like a dream, and cures quicker. 

But I haven't used it in about a year, so it may be ready to spray now, the formulations change all the time.

For adhesion spray it a little on the light side, don't worry if you can see through it, don't worry about coverage. The surface film of the primer is way stronger this way, and the solvents evaporate out of the paint quicker.

Might as well have it tinted as close as you can to the final color. I have never had to go very dark, I don't know to what degree if any that effects cure time.

----------------

If you wind up using a waterbase primer read the *whole* can. Some WB primers say _don't_ use tsp, use ammonia to clean. Other WB primers say the opposite.

They know what they are talking about on that point. You get better adhesion when you clean with their recommended cleaner.


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## BC_Painter

I use coverstain a lot as well.

I got use to priming all of my walls with it when removing wallpaper. It seems no matter what I did I'd have pockets that bubbled up otherwise.

No problems spreading, though I usually tint it for better coverage trying to minimize topcoats, and the base white it comes in covers horribly. Great product to use on walls, but it'll knock you on your feet, respirator and fan NEEDED and plan on getting a coat over it same day if possible, I've had a complaint or two from customers in the past from the smell


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## momule

XIM UMA (urethane modified acrylic) will work well in this application, drys quick sands well and has very high adhesion. It can be top coated with almost any product. Its one of the best primers on the market IMO. 

Nick


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## jchurchill

*Painting over oil base semi gloss finishes*

There are a couple of options for you to use. If you are painting in the kitchen the first thing I would do is wash the walls with TSP. This is a powder solution you mix with water... very strong but it will remove any oil that is on the surface and also dull the gloss.
There are some latex primers that will stick. Gripper made by Glidden, or Stix primer, manufactured by Insulx. 
Your best option of course is to use a (slow oil) primer. What I mean by slow oil is that it will take 24 hours for the primer to dry. This will stick the best. Then you can use an acrylic latex for the finish. Yes, you can use latex over oil primer because the primer is a flat finish. Don't let someone tell you different, we do this all the time and have been using this process for years.
HAPPY PAINTING...!!!!
JIM C.


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## RH

Hopefully he's dealt with this situation by now. :whistling2:


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## daArch

researchhound said:


> Hopefully he's dealt with this situation by now. :whistling2:



you think? Two years after the OP? 

Hmmmm, now what's that called ..... a nec....something


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## Xmark

sir paintalot said:


> I am painting a kitchen next week. The existing paint is a semi gloss oil. The HO wants me to use latex for the finish coat. I want to get some opinions on what primer to use.
> 
> I have used Zinsser Odorless before, works ok but REALLY splatters.
> Bullseye 1-2-3 mmmmm just can't bring myself to put this over oil I know I know it's gotta cure etc., but when it scrapes off the next day with my fingernail I just can't handle that....same with ICI Gripper.
> Zinsser Cover Stain, never used it but apparently it STINKS!
> Zinsser B-I-N, I can't handle the STINK and it's SO watery!
> KILZ again MAJOR FUMES
> 
> Guess I'm looking for the "MIRACLE Primer"
> 
> Ideas??


insl-x 'stix' primer is one of the best.


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## mudbone

plainpainter said:


> You are telling me if you pole sand those semigloss oil walls, clean up the dust, that the Gripper will come off with your fingernails? BULL SHEET!
> 
> You have no experience with that primer if you think that's the case - that stuff locks onto window glass for crying out loud.
> 
> Are there any real painters left in the painting world anymore?


 Me! Totally agree about the Gripper!


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## kdpaint

Yup. Gripper will stick to semi gloss walls like a bastid.


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## TJ Paint

If you have textured walls, you can always hand scuff with a big square of scotch pad.


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## mwalloch

I just did some kitchen cabinets with satin latex Glidden. Used a light sanding, cleaned with windex, sprayed Zinsser 123 primer and sprayed paint 1 hour later.






. http://www.rustoleum.com/product-ca...mer-sealers/bulls-eye-1-2-3-water-base-primer


Sent from my iPhone using PaintTalk.com


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## Amirdorna

Roadog said:


> Try the SW Adhesive Primer......I've tried all the ones listed above, this is my new favorite!


Yes, you are right, I used it and its really great one.


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## journeymanPainter

If you want a latex primer I use X-pert, or if want to go the alkyd primer route use cover stain

Sent from my SGH-T989D using Tapatalk


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## Bender

Man, what happened to Last Craftsman?


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## amcraft

It all depends... Is the semi-gloss paint chipping or coming off? Try an enamel undercoat primer... interior alkyd. 
As for the latter part of this thread... I believe that is why this thread exists, to assist those less experienced and link them with more experienced mentors in the business. I applaud you attempting to do it correctly this time around and enlisting help of fellows in the business


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## rbpaintVA

*Mythic primer over oil base paint*

Hello everyone, Just want to give you our experience using the all purpose primer from the Mythic brand over oil base paint. We used the liquid deglosser to dull the finish and applied a coat of the primer. After couple hours I did the fingernail test and to my surprise, it bonded so well I even tried harder to scratch the surface and no scratch. We used the stix primer in the past but from now on this product will be our first choice. Want to share with the forum in case somebody wants to give it a try.


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