# decipher this paint formula



## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

i saw this on another forum (guns)...... guy posted it up looking for advice but i doubt he will get any considering the ''anybody can paint'' mentality is alive an well over there ...so what do you think ?


*I took this paint recipe to the local hardware store and the paint guy looked at me like I had three heads. Does this recipe make any sense to anyone?



Valspar 1 gal satin base 21983

AXN 29 shots ½ shot

B 7 ounces 23 shots

I 1 ounce 35 shots ½ shot

KX 9 shots ½ shot



Thanks!!

krf​*


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

I think the OP was trying to get a match in some other paint so he wouldn't be paying the big bucks for Valspar....


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

Something dark....about 9 ounces of tint. That's a lot for a gallon. 

I'd assume the B is black...so some sort of off-black color.


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

quick google search for valspar paint tint revealed the following:

COLORANTS
AXN - Exterior Yellow
B - Lamp Black
C - Yellow Oxide
D - Thalo Green
E - Thalo Blue
F- Red Iron Oxide
I – Brown Iron Oxide
KX - Titanium Dioxide
L - Raw Umber
S – Exterior Red


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Hines Painting said:


> Something dark....about 9 ounces of tint. That's a lot for a gallon.
> 
> I'd assume the B is black...so some sort of off-black color.


We actually got a match from SW that had a whole list of tints, with the list running down the side of the can. In the middle of the list, there was a note that said, "dip out one cup".


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

That could be an ugly color

Quite a bit of yellow, huge amount of black, a goodly bit of brown, and some white.

What's that, some wretched cousin of pumpkin ?


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

daArch said:


> That could be an ugly color
> 
> Quite a bit of yellow, huge amount of black, a goodly bit of brown, and some white.
> 
> What's that, some wretched cousin of pumpkin ?


I believe the ANSI name is "Brindle".


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

daArch said:


> That could be an ugly color
> 
> Quite a bit of yellow, huge amount of black, a goodly bit of brown, and some white.
> 
> What's that, some wretched cousin of pumpkin ?


I was assuming the brown would be more of a reddish brown. I'm guessing its off-black with greenish undertones.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Hines Painting said:


> I was assuming the brown would be more of a reddish brown. I'm guessing its off-black with greenish undertones.


Yes the brown would be reddish brown - rust (oxidized iron). There is so much lamp black in there, it's blue MIGHT have shifted the "undertones" to greenish, but I don't know. Tough to visualize with those quantities.

Maybe it's just plain old dog schit brown ?


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## Happee_grrl (Feb 9, 2014)

It's not a good color. A funny dark brown, with greenish/red undertones. D'arch is right, the black shifts it's blue with that much pigmentation.

I used to sell Valspar paint...Then I got smart. 

Valspar has the worst dark colors. AXN is fondly referred to calf scour yellow around here.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

yup. makes perfect sense to someone that actually knows how to tint paint.

But then again, most "painters" think anyone can tint paint too!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Gough said:


> I think the OP was trying to get a match in some other paint so he wouldn't be paying the big bucks for Valspar....


Probably wanted to switch to Behr's paint because it's more better then Valspar.:stupid:


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

daArch said:


> Yes the brown would be reddish brown - rust (oxidized iron). There is so much lamp black in there, it's blue MIGHT have shifted the "undertones" to greenish, but I don't know. Tough to visualize with those quantities.
> 
> Maybe it's just plain old dog schit brown ?


 think the Ben Moore name is "dark baby **** brown".


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Gough said:


> We actually got a match from SW that had a whole list of tints, with the list running down the side of the can. In the middle of the list, there was a note that said, "dip out one cup".


Again, anyone can tint paint right? Especially the highly trained staff at Sheman Williams!:boxing::boxing:

But then again, aren't they all working at Lowe's now?


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## Happee_grrl (Feb 9, 2014)

Lol I had a coworker who was color blind...he tried, but he certainly couldn't tint paint. After several returned gallons, (Because the manager thought the guy was awesome and could do everything!) The owner finally said Joe couldn't touch the paint. Lol


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Proalliance coatings said:


> think the Ben Moore name is "dark baby **** brown".


Our browns aren't quite as ugly as Valspar's (worked with their tints for quite a while). Really, it's just R3 (Oxide Brown, which is a pretty nice looking color) and Y3 (Oxide Yellow) which is a slightly putrescent dingy yellow.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Woodford said:


> Our browns aren't quite as ugly as Valspar's (worked with their tints for quite a while). Really, it's just R3 (Oxide Brown, which is a pretty nice looking color) and Y3 (Oxide Yellow) which is a slightly putrescent dingy yellow.



When I was tinting my own paints, I think I went through more yellow oxide than any other colorant. Used judiciously, it's a nice warm sand, beige, linen, etc color. 

Isn't BM's over used Linen White formulated with yellow oxide, burnt umber (or is it raw umber?), and ....... damn, can't remember now?


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

daArch said:


> When I was tinting my own paints, I think I went through more yellow oxide than any other colorant. Used judiciously, it's a nice warm sand, beige, linen, etc color.
> 
> Isn't BM's over used Linen White formulated with yellow oxide, burnt umber (or is it raw umber?), and ....... damn, can't remember now?


Around here, the standard off-white has been L-6 for years, 6 shots of raw umber per gallon.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Gennex doesn't have an Umber color 

But yes, Y3 is used in an insane amount of colors, really.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Woodford said:


> Gennex doesn't have an Umber color
> 
> But yes, Y3 is used in an insane amount of colors, really.


It took me long enough to get the UTCs down, I'm not going to even bother trying with Gennex.

Is my short-timer attitude showing?


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## Ric (Oct 26, 2011)

Ole34 said:


> i saw this on another forum (guns)...... guy posted it up looking for advice but i doubt he will get any considering the ''anybody can paint'' mentality is alive an well over there ...so what do you think ?
> 
> 
> *I took this paint recipe to the local hardware store and the paint guy looked at me like I had three heads. Does this recipe make any sense to anyone?
> ...



Hey Krf…

the "shots" are whatever increments the original tinting machine was calibrated to (48ths, 64ths, whatever…), so, let's say they were 48ths - the formula would be 


AXN - 29/48ths + 1/96th…(probably exterior yellow)
B - 7 ounces + 23/48ths…(black)
I - 1 ounce + 35/48ths + 1/96th…(probably Iron Oxide)
KX - 9/48ths + 1/96th…(probably titanium white)

Note: Now this is interesting…when I answered this question a couple of minutes ago, there were no other responses…methinks me puter is playing games with me...


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

This is like third grade math to a real paint store!

I is actually brown iron oxide

AXN would be exterior yellow. N might mean new, as the bright exterior yellows have all changed to a completely new formulation. When switching from the old colorants to the new lo-voc colorants most of them were just pour overs, but to change the exterior yellow meant you had to completely clean the canister. Some companies switched the ext yellow to a purple colorant at that time.

I just think it's funny how we all know what these numbers mean but this guy couldn't find anyone that could decipher them, because everyone at Home Depot, Lowe's, Menard's, Ace, True Value, etc. are such paint experts!


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Ric said:


> Hey Krf…
> 
> the "shots" are whatever increments the original tinting machine was calibrated to (48ths, 64ths, whatever…), so, let's say they were 48ths - the formula would be
> 
> ...


This is the part that is, or was, always the rub. It may be better these days, but over the years, we've encountered 32nds, 48ths, 64ths, and 72nds.


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## riskend (Jan 25, 2015)

*Brilliant*

You guys are such fun:thumbup:
Remind me to tell you about the crusty old specimen at the best automotive mixing shop in the country who could gauge the squirt for the formula, in this case PPG rather than Valspar. When I work out how I'll post a photo of his mixing room so we can all enjoy rare treat. 
At least we have a formula, thank goodness for that.
Goodbye generic stores. hello professional coaters.


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## Happee_grrl (Feb 9, 2014)

When I do my arsty-painting, yellow oxide is a base for a lot of my colors. Bob Ross, anyone?


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Gough said:


> This is the part that is, or was, always the rub. It may be better these days, but over the years, we've encountered 32nds, 48ths, 64ths, and 72nds.


48th's is probably the most common in the architectural paints(SW,PL) probably followed by 32nd's (BM)

The I being 1 oz 35 shots 1/2 would eliminate the 32nd's. Again assuming that the person that wrote down that formula had any 4th grade math skills.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Gough said:


> This is the part that is, or was, always the rub. It may be better these days, but over the years, we've encountered 32nds, 48ths, 64ths, and 72nds.


Yah, it'd be nice if there was some better standardization, as there's not really a lot (read: any) reason for it to be different. Valspar uses 48ths as I recall, as said the BM is 32nds, it's really just a complete toss-up.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Woodford said:


> Yah, it'd be nice if there was some better standardization, as there's not really a lot (read: any) reason for it to be different. Valspar uses 48ths as I recall, as said the BM is 32nds, it's really just a complete toss-up.


Maybe we should break away from the pack (the US, Liberia, and Myanmar) and go Metric:whistling2::whistling2:


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Gough said:


> Maybe we should break away from the pack (the US, Liberia, and Myanmar) and go Metric:whistling2::whistling2:


Tens are really such a lovely metric to go by.

Of course, we could always swap to different numeric base than 10, which could allow the Standard system to land on 10's (sometimes) instead of 12's and such.


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

I'm in over my head on this thread.

Reminds me of that vague, uncertain feeling I had trying to get through calculus class in 12th grade. You guys have at it!

And, I do expect perfect color matching/tinting from the poor slobs at SW. :jester:


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Woodford said:


> Tens are really such a lovely metric to go by.
> 
> Of course, we could always swap to different numeric base than 10, which could allow the Standard system to land on 10's (sometimes) instead of 12's and such.


Ever encounter an Engineer's tape measure? Feet and tenth of feet. It makes the math easier, but it's hard to shake 40 years of habit.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Gough said:


> Ever encounter an Engineer's tape measure? Feet and tenth of feet. It makes the math easier, but it's hard to shake 40 years of habit.




In other words, yes, I have, and I didn't realize right off the bat. Replacing lumber is ing expensive.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Woodford said:


> In other words, yes, I have, and I didn't realize right off the bat. Replacing lumber is ing expensive.


My most recent encounter with one was in the midst of a timber framing project. Nothing like a 6x6 knee brace that is 2 inches too short.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

SemiproJohn said:


> I'm in over my head on this thread.
> 
> Reminds me of that vague, uncertain feeling I had trying to get through calculus class in 12th grade. You guys have at it!
> 
> And, I do expect perfect color matching/tinting from the poor slobs at SW. :jester:


Vague uncertain feeling? Calculus is to math what is LSD is to aspirin

and I like BOTH math and aspirin.


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