# 3k sqft 25 tubes caulking



## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

This commercial job is turning very comical and annoying. 3k sqft open space, Trim is only 1x6 no top cap or door casings. We went through 25 tubes of caulking, 10 rolls of backing and some rope caulking. :eek. This is an interior.

I have used less caulking on much larger jobs.

2 jobs for these guys and it has cost us more time and money in prep than I ever imagined.

Yes I am hitting them with the extra time and caulking that was needed.

All day yesterday all I heard was the nail gun and thinking of all the extras just being added.

Now because of their shoddy work it's put us way behind. We are going to finish our contract end and walk from the extras.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Are these the same guys (GCs) as in the other thread?


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Yes. No more doing their work once we finish this. We are only finishing this project because of Idea Paint. We are trying to get in with them and they will be looking at this job and decide from there if they will get us more of their work.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Ugh. That's gotta be tough working for guys that called you all those names, questioning your work, then threatening to punch you out. I couldn't do it, but I understand your situation.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

I wanted to and did walk out Monday. Carly talked with me and the contractors. I still do not want to finish it but being who we are we will get the contract end completed. The extras that are there we won't touch.

It's tough to be the bigger man in this case but I will.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Now you see why Gough gas a ten page contract after all these years.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Time to see how much the GC complains we are hitting him for 4 hours for caulking plus the extra 20 tubes we used. I'm still waiting to get paid for that other horror show of theirs. They said they would pay us $350 and not a penny more. Well to bad you agreed upon the price now time to pay up.

Our final check was supposed to be for a couple grand but that has tripled.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

I'm pretty much eagerly waiting to hear how this turns out. 25 tubes of caulking sounds like a lot of hiding going on and I don't mean hiding stuff you did.

I've actually had to explain to some carpenters that while caulking is a building material... It's not meant to be structural.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

I always, it's expected, juice up the extra work orders pretty darn good. They don't watch you as close as you think. Too much going on. Caulk? 25 tubes? Eeeh 5 cases..and double the time. Let em chew you down from a grossly inflated price. It's expected. Be honest and you won't get back to go. 

Paranoi will destroy ya. They aren't watxhing as close as you think. And have no idea how much caulk u used. Too much going on. Lol


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Wildbill7145 said:


> I'm pretty much eagerly waiting to hear how this turns out. 25 tubes of caulking sounds like a lot of hiding going on and I don't mean hiding stuff you did.
> 
> I've actually had to explain to some carpenters that while caulking is a building material... It's not meant to be structural.


We let him know we finished today on our way home from there. He said good what did you finish painting. Carly said the stuff on the contract and the extras. He says what extras? Carly says the wood panels you put around the huge holes going through the walls (20" pipe 35" holes), you know the ones you put up Friday. Carly said wait until Dave sends the invoice. 

We have been there 7 days longer than we should have. I did walk off this job once and very reluctantly went back. I should be hitting them with a bs charge.

I know this guy will pay but I also know it's going to be a battle. They still wont pay us the full agreed upon price for the other job we completed last week.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Don't sign the lien release until they pay you in full.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

cdpainting said:


> We let him know we finished today on our way home from there. He said good what did you finish painting. Carly said the stuff on the contract and the extras. He says what extras? Carly says the wood panels you put around the huge holes going through the walls (20" pipe 35" holes), you know the ones you put up Friday. Carly said wait until Dave sends the invoice.
> 
> We have been there 7 days longer than we should have. I did walk off this job once and very reluctantly went back. I should be hitting them with a bs charge.
> 
> I know this guy will pay but I also know it's going to be a battle. They still wont pay us the full agreed upon price for the other job we completed last week.


"We" and "7 days" sounds expensive. I hope this guy pays. That's scary, but obv on a larger scale than I deal with regularly.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Wildbill7145 said:


> "We" and "7 days" sounds expensive. I hope this guy pays. That's scary, but obv on a larger scale than I deal with regularly.


I hope to hear from them today. I have our lawyer ready to pounce with a lean.

I have a feeling he will like Oden said will try to beat us up on the extras. I wont let him. With this gc I am sticking to our price no matter what. If he pays less the lean will be written up for the remainder.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Typical gc. He is trying to say some of the extras shouldn't be charged. These guys as stated above cut huge holes for the duct work and had to add plywood panels to cover up their mess. The gc says why is that extra you have the paint already, well no we don't, we had a little of each color left over and had to 1) buy more. 2)and do these on already finished walls.

The worst part is both of the gc's are ex painters, so they know this stuff costs money and time.

I have a feeling the money fight will be on.


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

What a PITA. Marking it up to have negotiating room, as Oden said, is what to do. I'd like to know how this turns out.
Did he sign your change orders?


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

PRC said:


> What a PITA. Marking it up to have negotiating room, as Oden said, is what to do. I'd like to know how this turns out.
> Did he sign your change orders?


Yes he signed the change orders and our contract. He said he never read the contract and has questioned some of what I said was in there. Well read before signing that's a basic thing we all should know.

We have had 5 different chang order forms signed by him already and he paid right away, but that was before we had it out, since then they are questioning every extra.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

cdpainting said:


> Yes he signed the change orders and our contract. He said he never read the contract and has questioned some of what I said was in there. Well read before signing that's a basic thing we all should know.
> 
> We have had 5 different chang order forms signed by him already and he paid right away, but that was before we had it out, since then they are questioning every extra.


I think this job may have turned into what guys in the old days used to call "a bad hole".


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I am picturing a monkey violating a football. I am so happy doing remodels and repaints, once in a while I have a pita client but my mood is much better now.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

straight_lines said:


> I am picturing a monkey violating a football. I am so happy doing remodels and repaints, once in a while I have a pita client but my mood is much better now.


My mood took a turn for the worst with this job. We just started doing another contractors work and it is so nice. Tight trim, no gaps in the floor to baseboard.

I still have to find time to get my phone fixed so I can upload pics.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

cdpainting said:


> Yes he signed the change orders and our contract. He said he never read the contract and has questioned some of what I said was in there. Well read before signing that's a basic thing we all should know.
> 
> We have had 5 different chang order forms signed by him already and he paid right away, but that was before we had it out, since then they are questioning every extra.


now, don't get all PaintersUnite on us, please?


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Unlike him I knew this would be a battle to get paid.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

While I hope for the best, I'm concerned that this thread may go on longer than RH's, "Our New Addition", thread. Hope not, but these GC's sound like real POS's.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

I wonder what kind of clout a GC has against a lien if he feels the work was performed unsatisfactorily?
Not saying thats the situation, just curious.


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## PremierPaintingMa (Nov 30, 2014)

cdpainting said:


> I hope to hear from them today. I have our lawyer ready to pounce with a lean.
> 
> I have a feeling he will like Oden said will try to beat us up on the extras. I wont let him. With this gc I am sticking to our price no matter what. If he pays less the lean will be written up for the remainder.


Lien on what? the property you painted cdpainting.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

C'mon people, it's "lien".


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Bender said:


> I wonder what kind of clout a GC has against a lien if he feels the work was performed unsatisfactorily?
> Not saying thats the situation, just curious.


If there are legit touch ups we will take care of them, if it's extras which these guys seem to add daily they can find some one else.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

I have a feeling this is how I will be when they finally pay us. :wheelchair:


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

cdpainting said:


> I have a feeling this is how I will be when they finally pay us. :wheelchair:


You're gonna turn into DaArch V2.0? That's pretty neat!


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

No the excuses. For the last 3 days he has been telling Carly we will pay you tonight only to get a call or text saying not tonight tomorrow. Tomorrow is never going to come with these guys.

I already know they will try to short us on the Cambridge job and with just about $1,000 in extras (for this round) I'm positive they will not pay in full.

I have already contacted our lawyer and let him know we may need to place a lien (Gough I spelled it right this time :thumbup::jester.

Carly asked him today just to mail the check. We are both getting tired of this back and forth only to not get paid. It's what going onto week 3 with no final payment.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

After last night I already know we will have to file a lien or take these guys to court. Never a good way to get the final payment.

They added doors which were excluded from the estimate, they were getting finished at the factory, now the GC says they aren't and we HAVE to paint them or knock off $900 for 9 doors to be painted. Only one side needs painting.

I really hope none of you guys have to go through this, especially if your new or struggling during the winter.

This new GC hands out checks before you have to call about getting one.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

cdpainting said:


> After last night I already know we will have to file a lien or take these guys to court. Never a good way to get the final payment.
> 
> They added doors which were excluded from the estimate, they were getting finished at the factory, now the GC says they aren't and we HAVE to paint them or knock off $900 for 9 doors to be painted. Only one side needs painting.
> 
> ...


I've had to call people several times and chase them down to a minimal extent, but nothing like you're dealing with or for that amount of money.

My favourite GC I work for hand delivers my cheques to me at my house. At Christmas he showed up with a cutting board he'd made out of 8 different exotic woods. Thing is so beautiful I can't bring myself to use it.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

The check finally arrived. Somerville paid in full but got screwed out of the Cambridge money $450, I am still going to file a lien tomorrow.

We also got a nice some what nasty note with the check. Part of it said we suck as painters and need all the help we can get to last. This coming from a company that just started out, we have been together for 5 yrs+ now and getting busier and busier every year. This also comes from a carpenter that leaves 1/2"-3/4" gaps between the wall and trim.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Here are a few pics. The orange painted walls they asked us to try and hide the water lines since they didn't pull a permit to install. And they called us hacks lol. Even the CEO, president and all the employees said we made the carpenters look good.





































I love this one. The CEO asked the carpenters to replace some trim that was warped bad (should never have been installed it was that bad) so these clowns instead of removing carefully they ripped it off the wall. Yes this was a completed wall and trim.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

To most laypeople this looks like minor stuff, but something as simple as not cutting the caulk before removing that trim costs money to fix!


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Ouch, those are painful to see.


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## PremierPaintingMa (Nov 30, 2014)

I feel for you guys.
That make me love my GC even more.


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## MKap (Sep 11, 2010)

I would get extra storage on your phone, or a digital camera to take pictures and document before during and after photos of work on commercial jobs. 
Also, with people like this you can't charge enough. Having to constantly chase your money and not being compensated for extras takes years off your life.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

MKap said:


> I would get extra storage on your phone, or a digital camera to take pictures and document before during and after photos of work on commercial jobs.
> Also, with people like this you can't charge enough. Having to constantly chase your money and not being compensated for extras takes years off your life.


I have well over 200 pictures of all different fazes of this project. My phone wont let me take them, I have been to the store I bought the phone from and they say they can't find any thing wrong. This has been an issue since I did an update a couple months ago.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

MKap said:


> I would get extra storage on your phone, or a digital camera to take pictures and document before during and after photos of work on commercial jobs.
> Also, with people like this you can't charge enough. Having to constantly chase your money and not being compensated for extras takes years off your life.


We are painting a commercial space right now and so far we have used 2 tubes of caulking, 13 door casings and crown. It's almost the same size. We still have base to prep once that's installed and I'm willing to bet we will use no more than 3-4 tubes tops.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

cdpainting said:


> We are painting a commercial space right now and so far we have used 2 tubes of caulking, 13 door casings and crown. It's almost the same size. We still have base to prep once that's installed and I'm willing to bet we will use no more than 3-4 tubes tops.


That's the sort of thing that makes it tough to price. 

"How much does it cost to paint X?" 

"it depends""

What some people consider minor details can turn into budget busters. We followed some woodbutchers who nailed all of the trim in the worst conceivable spots. Instead of on the flats, they'd nail in it the high point of a bead, or right on the corner of a cove.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Gough said:


> What some people consider minor details can turn into budget busters. We followed some woodbutchers who nailed all of the trim in the worst conceivable spots. Instead of on the flats, they'd nail in it the high point of a bead, or right on the corner of a cove.



I have followed more than one carpenter that actually thought they were doing you a favor with that crap. Yeah, I'll hide the nail hole down in this valley and they'll never see it!


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Gough said:


> That's the sort of thing that makes it tough to price.
> 
> "How much does it cost to paint X?"
> 
> ...





Jmayspaint said:


> I have followed more than one carpenter that actually thought they were doing you a favor with that crap. Yeah, I'll hide the nail hole down in this valley and they'll never see it!


I have seen both of these and yes it drives us crazy. Please don't do us any of those favors.


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## Different Strokes (Dec 8, 2010)

straight_lines said:


> I am picturing a monkey violating a football. I am so happy doing remodels and repaints, once in a while I have a pita client but my mood is much better now.


My mood got much better after reading this post ^


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## MKap (Sep 11, 2010)

cdpainting said:


> I have well over 200 pictures of all different fazes of this project. My phone wont let me take them, I have been to the store I bought the phone from and they say they can't find any thing wrong. This has been an issue since I did an update a couple months ago.


How did you price the job? Walk through or prints?


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

MKap said:


> How did you price the job? Walk through or prints?


Both but the walk through it was rough framing only and the plans never called for gaps that big in the trim. I don't like pricing just front prints, I need to see and take my own measurements. Plus plans can change and with a walk through you can kind of visualize the changes.


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## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

Good luck with getting paid with or without legal help its tough. Been there done that from minor to large never really won. Finding a good GC who pays is like hitting last nights powerball.


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## dan-o (Sep 28, 2008)

$450 isn't worth chasing.
Drop a deuce on the hood of his truck and call it a day.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

thinkpainting/nick said:


> Good luck with getting paid with or without legal help its tough. Been there done that from minor to large never really won. Finding a good GC who pays is like hitting last nights powerball.


We did find one. Pays when we ask or submit an invoice. Plus he is a quality builder. He uses a ton of real exotic woods.

As for getting paid without court may take a long time, court will be the last resort.


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