# Anyone else ever consider crossing over to the dark side?



## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

I keep seeing the $19.96 per gallon (Behr) ads here at PT and the wheels start turning. Im still pretty small and might got through 1500 gallons this year. Ok, If I can save $10-$15 per gallon ( even more with if Im comparing to using Aura) were talking an average of an extra $20,000 per year in my pocket. It gets me to thinking. Its not bad paint. The warranty is good, and it ranks high on consumer reports. Still, I dont know if I could do it. Been using SW for 30 yrs. I just cant see the big box stores giving me the same service I get at SW. Anyway, just curious if anyone else has considered it or is already using this stuff?


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## nextlevelpaintco. (Jun 21, 2007)

Is this considered the dark side? Behr paint and primer covers real good. I covered yellow walls with light tan in one coat.


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)




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## Laz (Nov 14, 2010)

It's not as much the quality of the paint verses that color matching and customer service is not there. If the project doesn't require matching but your using there colors and there shouldn't be any problems with asking them about there products then the idea "paint is paint" can apply.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Just one question and I am going to join brush in the peanut( or popcorn) gallery.

Are YOU paying for the paint?:blink:


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

Woodland said:


> I keep seeing the $19.96 per gallon (Behr) ads here at PT and the wheels start turning. Im still pretty small and might got through 1500 gallons this year. Ok, If I can save $10-$15 per gallon ( even more with if Im comparing to using Aura) were talking an average of an extra $20,000 per year in my pocket. It gets me to thinking. Its not bad paint. The warranty is good, and it ranks high on consumer reports. Still, I dont know if I could do it. Been using SW for 30 yrs. I just cant see the big box stores giving me the same service I get at SW. Anyway, just curious if anyone else has considered it or is already using this stuff?


 It's probably as or almost as good as a lot of the stuff we are using from SW & Moores(I'm a 95% Moores guy), but the thought of being in and out of Home Depot on a daily basis gives me a headache!!!! In this market I've lost $5000 jobs for less than 10% one way or the other. It may help your bottom line if you're willing to deal with the big box. If I was going to do it ,I probably would do it for interior wall finishes. I would be a little more apprehensive about the exterior stuff where warranties come more into play. If it ends up not working as well and costing you time than I don't think there is any advantage.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Why don't you just ask your rep if they can match or beat the price. 

Me personally I prefer the paint manufactures, it's a loyalty thing for me. I'm finding I value the relationship more than a buck saved.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

For a $20 a gallon paint I wouldn't even consider the hassle of going to Home Depot. Ultra Premium Plus is around $30 iirc, and its a decent paint for that price. Still for $4 more a gallon you can get Regal Select. 

Updated this morning for a commercial job I have coming up. Sorry for the bad pic, got overspray on my phone one day and scratched the camera lens cleaning it.


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## ltd (Nov 18, 2010)

dark side? i have been on the dark side for the past year . i still use s/w as my every day paint . but i have some townhouses ,and apt. i bang out ever now and then .s/w thinks promar 200 is a premium paint:001_huh:.best they do is 27 a gal. when literally across the street is a lowes i get valspar 2000 for about 20 a gal .townhouse takes 6 gal.one coat that's 42 bucks in my pocket .ok you big dogs don't want to piss around going to the big box. plus you get better prices anyways ,no problem, i get that .but for me sundries,primers,and paint for blow and go jobs. ill cross over to the dark side .


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

I like some of the paint, just can't get the service. I did try them, was set up at 20% off.

Had to go to the service desk to get the discount.

Would call a hour ahead and the paint would not be ready.

Emailed orders and 3 hours later, go to the service desk and they looked at me like I was crazy. Was told "We only check emails first thing in the morning, you need to fax them in." Like I carry a fax in the field. Faxes are so 80's to begin with. 

I gave up on them. Home Depot is easy to use because there are so many of them in my service area, customers just flock there. But the service sucks. Not Berh's fault, but they choose to be exclusive with HD.

Don't need my ego stroked, just better service and if you are doing more business than the average homeowner, better than what they get. They either want your business or they don't, right now, Home Depot doesn't seem to want the painters business. They are happy with the remodelers and carpenters who moonlight as painters. Buy some lumber and a couple gallons of paint.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

ltd said:


> t .but for me sundries........ill cross over to the dark side .


I get better prices or similar on most products from the local paint stores.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

I've learned over the years paints are not "similar".


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

bikerboy said:


> I get better prices or similar on most products from the local paint stores.


So do I, I only go the depot if its covenant.


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## MDServices (Oct 29, 2011)

Nothing but bad experience with the behr for me. Also It's 34$ for the premium in my area I'll stick with Ben and sherwin paints at that price point. I am curious about the new kilz pro300 line paint, have not yet tried it. At $18-25.00 a gal it's worth a shot.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

ltd said:


> dark side? i have been on the dark side for the past year . i still use s/w as my every day paint . but i have some townhouses ,and apt. i bang out ever now and then .s/w thinks promar 200 is a premium paint:001_huh:.best they do is 27 a gal. when literally across the street is a lowes i get valspar 2000 for about 20 a gal .townhouse takes 6 gal.one coat that's 42 bucks in my pocket .ok you big dogs don't want to piss around going to the big box. plus you get better prices anyways ,no problem, i get that .but for me sundries,primers,and paint for blow and go jobs. ill cross over to the dark side .


Again are YOU buying the paint???:blink::blink::blink:


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

chrisn said:


> Again are YOU buying the paint???:blink::blink::blink:


I agree, its not directly coming out of my pocket. And my materials are way less than 10% of my total costs, so its a non-issue with me. I do high-end work, I use high-end materials.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

bikerboy said:


> I like some of the paint, just can't get the service. I did try them, was set up at 20% off.
> 
> Had to go to the service desk to get the discount.
> 
> ...


I agree, but would probably feel different if paint were handled at the pro desk. There are several competent people at the one HD we have here, and I can call them and know they will get what I need if its not in stock. For paint though I couldn't imagine having to deal with that.

I don't even buy it when I am in there, and can call the paint store and pick it up in several locations. For big orders they will deliver in town free of charge.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

straight_lines said:


> For a $20 a gallon paint I wouldn't even consider the hassle of going to Home Depot. Ultra Premium Plus is around $30 iirc, and its a decent paint for that price. Still for $4 more a gallon you can get Regal Select.
> 
> Updated this morning for a commercial job I have coming up. Sorry for the bad pic, got overspray on my phone one day and scratched the camera lens cleaning it.


from what I see on that invoice is super hide and super spec. Big difference between those and Regal Select which is over $40 a gal.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

Woodland said:


> I keep seeing the $19.96 per gallon (Behr) ads here at PT and the wheels start turning. Im still pretty small and might got through 1500 gallons this year. Ok, If I can save $10-$15 per gallon ( even more with if Im comparing to using Aura) were talking an average of an extra $20,000 per year in my pocket. It gets me to thinking. Its not bad paint. The warranty is good, and it ranks high on consumer reports. Still, I dont know if I could do it. Been using SW for 30 yrs. I just cant see the big box stores giving me the same service I get at SW. Anyway, just curious if anyone else has considered it or is already using this stuff?


remember that the Behr for $20 is not the one they advertise as paint and primer. You are getting what you pay for plus no service... 

HD's have cut back on employees to save money good luck getting the guy from electrical to come over and mix your paint...


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## jennifertemple (Oct 30, 2011)

Woodland said:


> I keep seeing the $19.96 per gallon (Behr) ads here at PT and the wheels start turning. Im still pretty small and might got through 1500 gallons this year. Ok, If I can save $10-$15 per gallon ( even more with if Im comparing to using Aura) were talking an average of an extra $20,000 per year in my pocket. It gets me to thinking. Its not bad paint. The warranty is good, and it ranks high on consumer reports. Still, I dont know if I could do it. Been using SW for 30 yrs. I just cant see the big box stores giving me the same service I get at SW. Anyway, just curious if anyone else has considered it or is already using this stuff?


I always charge the job for materials and labor separately. If they are paying for the materials my advice is not biased and we owe it to the client to give them the very best knowledge we have. I must confess I always recommend the best. In the case of a product failure you need a company that stands behind the product. Benjamin Moore gets my vote because after recommending a glaze that absolutely destroyed a MAJOR Faux finishing jib, they paid ALL materials + Labor after sending someone to inspect the job and its complications. Cheap would be very expensive in that case!


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

I will use Behr from time to time because I run into customers that are adamant about the stuff. I recently sold a job that I wanted to use Aura on and tried to really push it for the same price as Behr since it was only 4 gallons, the guy was stuck on the stuff from his own past use and so I told him Behr it is, bought 4 gallons of it yesterday. 

Now don't burn me at the cross this is a few times a year I tun into this.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Workaholic said:


> I will use Behr from time to time because I run into customers that are adamant about the stuff. I recently sold a job that I wanted to use Aura on and tried to really push it for the same price as Behr since it was only 4 gallons, the guy was stuck on the stuff from his own past use and so I told him Behr it is, bought 4 gallons of it yesterday.
> 
> Now don't burn me at the cross this is a few times a year I tun into this.


Better to gain the job than losing it over your/my preferred product. I've used Behr a few time for the same reason and I have achieved a reasonable finish with it. I have also lost jobs because I speced other paints over Behr. Bottom line sell the customer what they want to pay for. 

I have to be honest, though Bher isn't my preferred product, I have gotten good results with their interior paints. I haven't tried their exterior products and I would be hesitant too, due to the elements the coating has to face, but I would be hesitant with any exterior paint I'm not familiar with.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

MAK-Deco said:


> from what I see on that invoice is super hide and super spec. Big difference between those and Regal Select which is over $40 a gal.


No difference between that and a $20 HD paint which is what Mike was posting about. My regal select flat pastel price is $34.99, roughly $5 more per gallon than Behr's best paint. 

That wasn't an invoice but just updated pricing as of 10/31 pricing on materials for a commercial job.


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## AztecPainting (Jan 28, 2010)

I've seen the ads for Behr $19.96, I thought about it but if I really wanna go cheap on materials might as well just use Qualikote for $19.43, Sherwin Williams has been so good to me this year so far and even gave me a credit on bigger commercial jobs and it's own price, I have my SW rep recommending his products and he will stand behind it if anything happen.

I think Home Depot can't beat the customer service that my paint store gives me.

I really think it's all about customer service.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> No difference between that and a $20 HD paint which is what Mike was posting about. My regal select flat pastel price is $34.99, roughly $5 more per gallon than Behr's best paint.
> 
> That wasn't an invoice but just updated pricing as of 10/31 pricing on materials for a commercial job.


Anything to gain using Regal Flat over ULTRA Flat?


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

straight_lines said:


> No difference between that and a $20 HD paint which is what Mike was posting about. My regal select flat pastel price is $34.99, roughly $5 more per gallon than Behr's best paint.
> 
> That wasn't an invoice but just updated pricing as of 10/31 pricing on materials for a commercial job.


That's a great price on Regal Select, being a gennex product and the middle line with Ben being the cheapest not sure I can believe that pricing to each his own though. Dealers don't have much volume pricing on gennex platform like they do/did on Super Spec and Super hide


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

AztecPainting said:


> I've seen the ads for Behr $19.96, I thought about it but if I really wanna go cheap on materials might as well just use Qualikote for $19.43, Sherwin Williams has been so good to me this year so far and even gave me a credit on bigger commercial jobs and it's own price, I have my SW rep recommending his products and he will stand behind it if anything happen.
> 
> I think Home Depot can't beat the customer service that my paint store gives me.
> 
> I really think it's all about customer service.


I've really spent a great deal of time minimizing my paint buying experiences to ordering paint like ordering chinese and I prefer to have little conversation during the process. In my situation, my ordering paints evolved into a more simplified expectational approach to the point I would prefer to punch it up on an iPad and have it waiting when I get there.


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## Lee Decorating Corp. (Oct 6, 2011)

HD owns Behrs. I can always tell a job that has Behrs products. People are amazed when I say, "What did you do, use HD paint"? It never looks "right". It does not level like a quality paint should and it gums up my brushes. Too me, it has too much filler, that is why it covers so well.
I would rather let a job pass by than use that stuff. My customers generally expect better anyway. My designers would laugh if I suggested Behrs.
I like when HD says it is rated #1 for coverage. That is due to the fillers. I could put driveway sealant on walls and it would cover in 1 coat. Does not mean it is a good paint.
Valspar is a different animal. Around here it is made by SW and it just has a different label. I used to love their oil primer. I always wondered how it passed VOC until it was gone overnight. Plus, it was very affordable.
The Glidden at HD is not the same level of Glidden you get at a retail seller, but Glidden dealers are few and far between around here.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

Lee Decorating Corp. said:


> HD owns Behrs. I can always tell a job that has Behrs products. People are amazed when I say, "What did you do, use HD paint"? It never looks "right". It does not level like a quality paint should and it gums up my brushes. Too me, it has too much filler, that is why it covers so well.
> I would rather let a job pass by than use that stuff. My customers generally expect better anyway. My designers would laugh if I suggested Behrs.
> I like when HD says it is rated #1 for coverage. That is due to the fillers. I could put driveway sealant on walls and it would cover in 1 coat. Does not mean it is a good paint.
> Valspar is a different animal. Around here it is made by SW and it just has a different label. I used to love their oil primer. I always wondered how it passed VOC until it was gone overnight. Plus, it was very affordable.
> The Glidden at HD is not the same level of Glidden you get at a retail seller, but Glidden dealers are few and far between around here.


Behr is a Masco company the same company that owns Kilz and many other products, it is sold exclusively at HD but HD is no tin the business of owning coatings or any other products other than selling them...


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Lee Decorating Corp. said:


> I can always tell a job that has Behrs products. People are amazed when I say, "What did you do, use HD paint"? It never looks "right".


Dont flatter yourself.  You simply have a unique ability to identify DIY workmanship. That has nothing to do with the paint. I could show you that all day long.


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## ddemair (Nov 3, 2008)

I use Benjamin Moore paints, but I use Behr primer. I actually like it better than Fresh Start.


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## JoseyWales (Jan 8, 2011)

Behr Ultra is good paint and it's not exactly cheap...I just wouldn't want to go to HD on a regular basis...I can't stand that huge store....It's 4 football fields from your van to the paint dept.:blink:


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

JoseyWales said:


> Behr Ultra is good paint and it's not exactly cheap...I just wouldn't want to go to HD on a regular basis...I can't stand that huge store...*.It's 4 football fields from your van to the paint dept*.:blink:


consider it exercise


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Better to gain the job than losing it over your/my preferred product. I've used Behr a few time for the same reason and I have achieved a reasonable finish with it. I have also lost jobs because I speced other paints over Behr. Bottom line sell the customer what they want to pay for.
> 
> I have to be honest, though Bher isn't my preferred product, I have gotten good results with their interior paints. I haven't tried their exterior products and I would be hesitant too, due to the elements the coating has to face, but I would be hesitant with any exterior paint I'm not familiar with.


This particular job is an exterior but I have used it before like I said I really pushed to use the Aura from the same price point and used Aura next door but when it comes to passing on a job over someone being stuck on Behr you have to of had really bad results in the past.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

I use Behr oil primer all the time - its good stuff. It's slow drying "4-6 hours to touch" Its cheap - $25.00 bucks a gallon or $107 for a fiver. fresh start might be a little longer at "6-8 hours to touch" but its $14.00 or so a quart and only comes in quarts. I have no idea why they can still sell the Berh primer here as it has the same voc's as the freshstart quarts. I see the behr rep all the time. He's pretty smart and a real nice guy. He thinks it might be gone at the end of this year but does not know for sure.

he told me that lowes and osh sold out under some sort of pressure from the green freaks and that's why you will not find any oil products there.

Pat


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

Woodland said:


> I keep seeing the $19.96 per gallon (Behr) ads here at PT and the wheels start turning. Im still pretty small and might got through 1500 gallons this year. Ok, If I can save $10-$15 per gallon ( even more with if Im comparing to using Aura) were talking an average of an extra $20,000 per year in my pocket. It gets me to thinking. Its not bad paint. The warranty is good, and it ranks high on consumer reports. Still, I dont know if I could do it. Been using SW for 30 yrs. I just cant see the big box stores giving me the same service I get at SW. Anyway, just curious if anyone else has considered it or is already using this stuff?


For real man?

The customer pays for the paint. 

So you get the best paint. 

Behr is not the best paint. 

That is all.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> Anything to gain using Regal Flat over ULTRA Flat?


As far as the product I really don't know. The other things I listed are a pretty big factor for me.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

straight_lines said:


> For a $20 a gallon paint I wouldn't even consider the hassle of going to Home Depot. Ultra Premium Plus is around $30 iirc, and its a decent paint for that price. Still for $4 more a gallon you can get Regal Select.


My bad. I been looking at that $19.96 ad the last few days and didnt realize that was for the lower grade. I thought it was for their top of the line product. Im not very familiar with their product line and didnt know there was an Ultra. I saw the Premium Plus and thought that was the good stuff. I still get Super Paint for under $30 and Duration Home for around $34. Anyway, like I said....I probably couldnt ever leave SW anyways. They screwed up on a gallon of trim paint last Friday and delivered another gallon to me within an hour or so after I called them. Would HD do that?  Tons of replies here today though :thumbup: Just about forgot I posted this. And the $19.96 ad is still popping out at me though.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> Anything to gain using Regal Flat over ULTRA Flat?


 
Respect.:laughing:


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Yeah...yeah...yeah.

All you guys who say the customer pays for the paint is correct. But don't delude yourself into believing you don't get a majority of your work by being the cheapest/best priced. 

If you are tightening your numbers to assure you get more job or opportunities, its just good business sense to maximize your profits by getting materials at the best price.

Don't let your ego reduce profit margins. Very few customers (and dare say paint pro's) can tell what is on the wall after it is applied and dry.

Even less will ever realize the long term performance of your favorite brand versus a Berh.

Last, to be perfectly honest. is it the product or the painter that makes to job look good.

If it is the price of a gallon paint that makes look good, why does a homeowner need us? Don't underestimate your ability to produce good work. 

More often than not, the magic is in your brush, not the can.


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## Wood511 (Dec 13, 2010)

Workaholic said:


> I will use Behr from time to time because I run into customers that are adamant about the stuff. I recently sold a job that I wanted to use Aura on and tried to really push it for the same price as Behr since it was only 4 gallons, the guy was stuck on the stuff from his own past use and so I told him Behr it is, bought 4 gallons of it yesterday.
> 
> Now don't burn me at the cross this is a few times a year I tun into this.


I've had the same situation, but it hasn't always gone well. I now have a clause in my contract that gives them two coats if they select the paint. After that, there's an additional charge. I had some Behr Ultra Premium take FOUR coats on a job last year. BM would have done it in two...maybe one and a half.

In my experience, the $20 Behr has performed better than the high end Behr stuff. The problem is that the extra coats (third) wind up costing me more than the spread between HO selected paint and the paint I would have picked. I would use Krayola paint if it did the job and looked great without significantly increasing my labor.


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## madochio (Oct 26, 2011)

when was the last time a "big box" gave your name out for a job? you need to look past the price ( yes it is cheaper at "big box" and always will be). Service sucks, matching sucks unless it is an easy color, you will not be able to get in and out fast unless you are there first thing in the AM. 
I am not saying that behr is bad i am, however; saying that we need to look at why the paint is cheap. poor service, bad matching and unless you are a "big box" member you will not get jobs from them vs a home store paint store. You may save $$$$$ but in the long run without leads you are out of business no matter how much money you save


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

bikerboy said:


> Yeah...yeah...yeah.
> 
> All you guys who say the customer pays for the paint is correct. But don't delude yourself into believing you don't get a majority of your work by being the cheapest/best priced.
> 
> ...


Well put. And it is about profit margins for me. Prices are low around here compared to a few years ago. Maybe things are better in other regions? Here, its very competive. Many of my competitors are using either one of two local paint brands who are both a good bit cheaper than the SW I use. As for the quality? I go by my own experience. I have seen myself that neither of the two last as long as Super Paint, so I have stuck with Super Paint. I have always used quality materials and always will. I have been with Sherwin-Williams a long time. All the way back when A-100 was the top of the line paint with an 8 yr warranty. (yes, that was a while back) I tried using Duration when it first hit the market, but had a hard time selling the extra cost so I went back to SP which is still a great product. I also do a few BM jobs and occasionly get to use Aura, but that one is also hard to sell on a regular basis. I love using Aura. Its probably the best paint I have ever used. Unfortuneatly very few around here want to spend the extra $$$$$. And yes, I can target specic customers and I do my best to do that. But, for those who dont know my story....I am in a new state. I knew very little about this area when I moved here. If anyone thinks its easy to move to a new state and get the phone ringing, feel free to give it a shot. I also have no plans to jeapordize the quality of my work. I am out to offer quality and value at the same time. I offer a 5 yr warranty on exteriors and only know of two others in my area who do this, so, I wont be going to low grade paint but I am reaching a point more and more where every single dollar matters. It has to matter to remain competive around here. Despite all the work I got this year, there is a very large percentage of jobs I didnt get, and most were lost to lower bids. If I spend all my time bidding work I wont get, its hard to see how my business will ever grow. Much less survive. I read here about people mentioning driving more economical vehicles, or maybe even buying sundries online to save money. So, whats wrong with going for the best value on paint? SW and BM have both had 3 price increases this year. Now, Im seeing these ads here at PT and they are getting my attention. I do not have too much experience with Behr and cant say if the Premium Plus stands up to Super Paint. If I can save $10 per gallon on a product that is equal to SP, its starting to look more and more apealing. Even if I do have to walk across 4 football fields to get it.  Im enjoying the feedback here and look forward to hearing more from the guys that have used Behr.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Wood, do what ya gotta do to put food on the table and take care of the kids. 

I also give an unusually long warranty. To be honest, its the prep work we do up front that makes it last, not the cost per gallon of paint. If properly prepped, any exterior paint should last five years. (Excluding stuff like act of God or water intrusion from something other than the work one does)


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

madochio said:


> when was the last time a "big box" gave your name out for a job? you need to look past the price ( yes it is cheaper at "big box" and always will be). Service sucks, matching sucks unless it is an easy color, you will not be able to get in and out fast unless you are there first thing in the AM.
> I am not saying that behr is bad i am, however; saying that we need to look at why the paint is cheap. poor service, bad matching and unless you are a "big box" member you will not get jobs from them vs a home store paint store. You may save $$$$$ but in the long run without leads you are out of business no matter how much money you save


I don't depend on any paint store to reccomend us. If they do, I will get paint from them. In a population dense and paint contractor rich environment
I depend on other sources for leads.


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## Perfect Edge (Oct 28, 2011)

Wow. I am surprised how many painters are using Behr. I wouldn't use that stuff to paint a dog house if was given to me. I don't get how anyone who paints for a living says it performs like a SW or BM product. I'd rather use Super Spec or even Kwal (Comex) than Behr Ultra. 

I'm new here and don't want to stir the pot too much or get a reputation of being confrontational- but this is something I am adamant about. So much that if I see a DIYer in the HD picking out colors, I tell them they don't want to use that stuff, give them my card and offer to give them my BM price on a professional product. Then they call me for color consultation, to paint the stairwell they can't reach, or to paint the rest of the house when their ambition wears out. They love it that they are getting hooked up with a contractor's price.

My clients know before I leave their home on the first visit that I will not be the cheapest bid. That sets them up to decide and for me to know what their expectations are before I even send a bid. If they want a College-Pro job, I will happily give them referrals to a blow-n-go biz... and see ya in 2 or 3 years when your exterior starts peeling again. Like mentioned above, I don't pay for the paint. Sell residential clients on the best product. _Most_ homeowners just want the best value, not the cheapest job.

It comes down to what you do. If you spray rental units all day or run your business based on valpack coupons for "10% off your next paint job!" than clearly Aura is not for you. That's not to say that type of business is inferior- just apples to apples.

-josh


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

It's all opinions. I think Super Spec is slop and berh (for me) is easier to apply and covers as good or better for less. But that's just an opinion.

Don't worry about stirring the pot, the subject of Berh always does this. 

(that and politics, plus how much to charge, whose brush is better and if Da Arch is a mad censoring liberal) :jester:


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

bikerboy said:


> It's all opinions.
> and if Da Arch is a mad censoring liberal) :jester:


Like that's even a debatable subject...


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

bikerboy said:


> Yeah...yeah...yeah.
> 
> All you guys who say the customer pays for the paint is correct. But don't delude yourself into believing you don't get a majority of your work by being the cheapest/best priced.
> 
> ...


All though I agree with you most small repaints how much paint our you using? 5 gallons? saving $10 a gallon that's $50 bucks if I can't sell my company over another at $50 more than the client probably not my type of client to begin with...


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

bikerboy said:


> It's all opinions. I think Super Spec is slop and berh (for me) is easier to apply and covers as good or better for less. But that's just an opinion.
> 
> Don't worry about stirring the pot, the subject of Berh always does this.
> 
> (that and politics, plus how much to charge, whose brush is better and if Da Arch is a mad censoring liberal) :jester:


I agree on SS its not that good but I have had good results with Ben Eggshell and would use that over Behr and support my local independent store...


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

I just started using Ben last month, its a great product. 

In all honesty I rarely use Berh, but it is a useful tool if that is what the customer wants. I use more Manor Hall or Super Paint, both interior or exterior than anything else. 

But at the end of the day who cares what I or anyone else uses? You do what works best for your business and the customer and make the sale. 

I just don't understand all the fuss about what others choose to use.

Home Depot is a local store that hires local people. I buy lots of lumber, nails, tools and stuff from them. Even know people that work there. (but again, who cares and why am I wasting your time?)


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

bikerboy said:


> But at the end of the day who cares what I or anyone else uses? You do what works best for your business and the customer and make the sale.
> 
> I just don't understand all the fuss about what others choose to use.


Agreed :thumbsup:


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## AztecPainting (Jan 28, 2010)

bikerboy said:


> The magic is in your brush, not the can.


 I know and it bugs me a lot when a HO ask me to use Aura when I can use something else (and cheaper) that look just like it. hehe :jester:


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

I think most who have issues with Behr has nothing to do with the quality of the product, its more of them having some sort of inferiority complex issue from the environment where they have to purchase this paint. For someone who says they would not paint their dog house with the stuff is just ignorant and a stupid statement.

If Behr sold their products in local paint stores, this would never be a topic among the professionals.

Pat


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

bikerboy said:


> I just started using Ben last month, its a great product.
> 
> In all honesty I rarely use Berh, but it is a useful tool if that is what the customer wants. I use more Manor Hall or Super Paint, both interior or exterior than anything else.
> 
> ...



Big Box store are anything but Local, the are what's wrong with corporate America... They are a unnecessary necessity , like Walmart, fast food etc... We have become chain store nation...


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

Multi tier sell. Come in at your cheap price factoring Behr then upsell the good stuff. There is your $20 savings covered.

In contrast to the above, one thing I learned awhile back. Stick to one product and get good with it. Many educated homeowners will not want Behr. That means you can have guys trained on Behr and they will slow production using something different. You can bid with the Behr and upgrade just about everyone. I do it for house washes. I rarely, if ever, sell a silver plan.


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## John's Painting (Aug 24, 2011)

ProWallGuy said:


> I agree, its not directly coming out of my pocket. And my materials are way less than 10% of my total costs, so its a non-issue with me. I do high-end work, I use high-end materials.


Very true!

I ensure that when I go to do a quote/estimate on the job I consult the owners of the property and give them idea of just what kind of different results can be achieved with different quality paints.

Some are just looking for just a quick tidy up and are satisfied with the cheaper stuff but more often than not the client is happy to accept an estimate that is slightly higher due to higher quality products being used once they're aware of the differences that initial choice can make.

High quality results do require high quality product.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

PressurePros said:


> Multi tier sell. Come in at your cheap price factoring Behr then upsell the good stuff. There is your $20 savings covered.
> 
> In contrast to the above, one thing I learned awhile back. Stick to one product and get good with it. Many educated homeowners will not want Behr. That means you can have guys trained on Behr and they will slow production using something different. You can bid with the Behr and upgrade just about everyone. I do it for house washes. I rarely, if ever, sell a silver plan.


 True. I always like your feedback. Short and sweet and to the point. :thumbsup: I guess if it aint broken, dont fix it. I have been using Super Paint a long time. Since it hit the market. It sells well and I know for a fact it lasts. And then theres the service. After all, time is money. I called in an order for 19 colors at SW the other day. Took them about an hour and it was ready. :thumbup: I wonder how that would have worked out at Home Depot?  I cant say because I have never called in a paint order at HD, so I can only imagine :whistling2:I do have to admit, for some reason that darn ad still just pops out at me. I guess thats what its supposed to do.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Woodland said:


> True. I always like your feedback. Short and sweet and to the point. :thumbsup: I guess if it aint broken, dont fix it. I have been using Super Paint a long time. Since it hit the market. It sells well and I know for a fact it lasts. And then theres the service. After all, time is money. I called in an order for 19 colors at SW the other day. Took them about an hour and it was ready. :thumbup: I wonder how that would have worked out at Home Depot?  I cant say because I have never called in a paint order at HD, so I can only imagine :whistling2:I do have to admit, for some reason that darn ad still just pops out at me. I guess thats what its supposed to do.


 
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GZAG_enUS428US428&q=ad+block :yes:


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## DanielMDollaPainting (Feb 24, 2011)

I like my SW store and I'm friends with the manager. We can always talk about hunting together. I'm paying 41.50 for super paint satin and I could get Behr premium for 18$ with my 10%discount. SW doesn't want to hear about competitors prices and SW prices being high. I brought it up to one of the district managers who came to a job with my field rep. He gave me the bs about the dye going to China and costing more. He said that I'll just have to adjust my pricing. Ben Moore is giving me 20% off list at Ace hardware and this is a heck of a lot better than my SW prices. I'm stuck because SW is the only "paint store" close enough for me to use daily but HD and Lowes are right next to them. I'm tired of paying 10 to 20$ more per gal at SW for comparable products I can get elsewhere cheaper. SW managers and suits are making 60-100K a year. I should be working there. After all they are one of the top 100 fortune 500 companies to work for. The home store service isn't too bad if you go at the right time. At least they have honest up front pricing. I have been cherged different prices by different salsemen at SW for the same product. Sometimes it's like they make it up as they go along. They only lower it if you talk about buying it somewhere else. They never want to sell coverstain and other products. The keep it in the back. You have to ask for it. They want to sell thier own brand.


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## y.painting (Jul 19, 2009)

MAK-Deco said:


> All though I agree with you most small repaints how much paint our you using? 5 gallons? saving $10 a gallon that's $50 bucks if I can't sell my company over another at $50 more than the client probably not my type of client to begin with...


Instead, negotiate a $10 difference on paint and sell the job for the same price as you always do.

Lets say you put up 1000 gallons on walls over a year. That's 10K simply by talking to your rep for 20 minutes at the beginning of the year. Easy win.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Its really sad these days that guys are sacrificing using quality products on re-paints. Ok, I understand the rentals, apts. etc etc, but a residential re-paint? Come on. Guys here are using Sher-Scrub on repaints these days! I cant say that I blame them totally, they're trying to land jobs, but this practice will absolutely kill your referrals the first time the customer touches the walls.

IMO, Behr is a DIY product. Its a lesser quality product with a "premium" label on it sold at a mediocre price point. Ok, its $20/gal....fine. You can get better products for $18/gal, and not look like a "weekend warrior" painter.


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## RaleighPainter (Jun 13, 2011)

DanielMDollaPainting said:


> I like my SW store and I'm friends with the manager. We can always talk about hunting together. I'm paying 41.50 for super paint satin


If you are paying 41.50 USD for super paint, you probably don't want to talk hunting with him any more, he isn't your friend.

________________________________


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Just for anyone who didnt read or misinterpretid my first post.........


Woodland said:


> Still, I dont know if I could do it. Been using SW for 30 yrs. I just cant see the big box stores giving me the same service I get at SW. Anyway, just curious if anyone else has considered it or is already using this stuff?


For the record, I would NEVER jeapordize the quality of my work to save a few bucks.When I started this thread, I didnt realize the ad was for the middle grade product and the Ultra is actually closer to $30. Im still under $30 for Super Paint Satin, so what would be the point? But, I thought it would be an intersting topic anyway. Although not a lot, I have used a little of the Behr over the years and it has held up fine as far as color retention, etc.....so I wouldnt consider it garbage paint. Probably the biggest thing I noticed was it will run fairly easy. My SW rep has gone all out to keep my prices down considering there are some around here buying a good bit more paint than my measley 1000 or so gallons per year, buyt still paying more than me. Going to HD would be like putting a knife in his back.  I been putting SP on exteriors a long time and will continue to do so. But, I still do like hearing from the guys who do buy or have bought at HD or Lowes and their experiences since mine are very limited. Thanks


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## Perfect Edge (Oct 28, 2011)

PatsPainting said:


> I think most who have issues with Behr has nothing to do with the quality of the product, its more of them having some sort of inferiority complex issue from the environment where they have to purchase this paint. For someone who says they would not paint their dog house with the stuff is just ignorant and a stupid statement.
> 
> If Behr sold their products in local paint stores, this would never be a topic among the professionals.
> 
> Pat


I'm in HD like every other day, no inferiority complex from going there. That paint is just not what my clients would expect.

As for local paint stores, we have Kwal around here and I don't use their stuff either. 

... and I don't even have a doghouse- if I did, I just happen to have some extra gallons of other stuff that I would use anyway... OK so my original statement was a little dramatic 

PressurePros has a good point on knowing the product you use. I have had Behr flash quite a bit, moreso on darker tones than other paints that I'm used to and I've lost time with extra coats in white- especially with exterior; it just doesn't hide as well. Also noticed slower drying time, oversheening (a Behr Premium satin is like a BM SuperSpec eggshell) and excesssive splattering, again more so than what I'd used. Maybe it was my inexperience with that product and a regular Behr user knows how to tweak it with better results. In any case I'll stick with what has worked for me. That is just one painter's biased opinion. 

josh


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## robladd (Nov 22, 2010)

As paint ranks across the board
1. Akzo Nobel
2. PPG
4. Sherwin Williams
6. Valspar
15. Masco
24. Benjamin Moore

These rankings vary over the years but this is where they stand on the world market.

1. Glidden 
2. Olympic
3. Sherwin Williams
4. Valspar
5. Behr
6. Benjamin Moore

It all depends on geographic location supply and demand and what prices these paints are in your location. 

After belonging to PT for almost a year, I would say that the brands of paints listed above is what the majority of members use.

I could be way off with some members but this is what I see.

I have used all the brand paints above and can say they are all reputable products.

I have used other paints not mentioned and have gotten just as good a finished product... Pittsburg, Dunn Edwards, Frazee, Devoe to name some.

It's all about what works for you and your budget. The bottom line is the bottom line.

I am all about getting as much money that is on the table and satisfying my customers and my self.

It's easy to get stuck on 1 brand and claiming I wouldn't paint my dog house with that crap.

This is my opinion of the this thread so far. Ps it has been very inlightening. Thanks Rob


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Julian&co said:


> If you are paying 41.50 USD for super paint, you probably don't want to talk hunting with him any more, he isn't your friend.
> 
> __________________
> 
> ...


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Julian&co said:


> If you are paying 41.50 USD for super paint, you probably don't want to talk hunting with him any more, he isn't your friend.


I sort of disagree with this. It seems that SW has special product pricing these days, not just a tiered discount of years past. You may receive a great price on a handful of products, but a marginal discount on others. I know guys paying in the teens for Pro mar, and over $40 for Super Paint, then others are paying $27( cheapest ive actually seen on a receipt ) for Super Paint and in the high $20's for Pro Mar.

So maybe this guy has a sweet price on something else, and doesnt use a bunch of Super Paint, so thats why its $40.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

NCPaint1 said:


> I sort of disagree with this. It seems that SW has special product pricing these days, not just a tiered discount of years past. You may receive a great price on a handful of products, but a marginal discount on others. I know guys paying in the teens for Pro mar, and over $40 for Super Paint, then others are paying $27( cheapest ive actually seen on a receipt ) for Super Paint and in the high $20's for Pro Mar.
> 
> So maybe this guy has a sweet price on something else, and doesnt use a bunch of Super Paint, so thats why its $40.


Thats pretty much how it works for me. I use a lot of Super Paint, Duration Home, and Pro Classic, All Surface Enamel, and Peel Bond and get special pricing. I was at $27 and change for SP until last months price increase. (I think Im around $29 now) I had to buy a gallon Weather Clad recently which I never use, and they charged me like $26!!!!!  But.... my rep is pretty good about adjusting prices on anything I ask. Even on the Weather Clad, which I doubt I will use much my rep got me a refund for $10 or so.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

I pay 42.00 for Duration.

DanielM I think your rep could do you better on Super Paint than what you are getting.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Workaholic said:


> I pay 42.00 for Duration.
> 
> .


Exterior? Thats a good price :thumbsup:


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Woodland said:


> Exterior? Thats a good price :thumbsup:


Yes exterior. + tax.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

y.painting said:


> Instead, negotiate a $10 difference on paint and sell the job for the same price as you always do.
> 
> Lets say you put up 1000 gallons on walls over a year. That's 10K simply by talking to your rep for 20 minutes at the beginning of the year. Easy win.


Unfortunately BM hasn't been flexible on there pricing these days. Noe that most stores are corporate own in our area now. The smaller stores are getting raked on there end from Bm and these isn't much room of them to play but in the end I would rather give my business to the small guy, I won't leave them for the sake of a few bucks a gallon when I have other benefits for using them.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

I think SP @ $29 as of now is about the best you'll find. Around here thats the cheapest ive heard. My customer was paying $27 and change before the price increase, so i'd imagine he's around $29 now.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

MAK-Deco said:


> Unfortunately BM hasn't been flexible on there pricing these days. Noe that most stores are corporate own in our area now. The smaller stores are getting raked on there end from Bm and these isn't much room of them to play but in the end I would rather give my business to the small guy, I won't leave them for the sake of a few bucks a gallon when I have other benefits for using them.


On the premium products there just isnt much "wiggle room" at all. Then again, SW's waterborne system products are just as expensive from what i've seen.


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## DanielMDollaPainting (Feb 24, 2011)

Workaholic said:


> I pay 42.00 for Duration.
> 
> DanielM I think your rep could do you better on Super Paint than what you are getting.


 I here ya guys. Look I have only been buying SW for almost two years. Last year I think I spent 1600$. This year I am at 2550$ now and still have a whole house interior to do. I am not a big fish. I started paying 17$ for promar400. Now it's 21.99. I have to pay over 29.00 for pm200. 57 for ext duration. They are giving me 10% off basically on the homowner lines. They say I'm getting 50% off promar lines but they just mark it up then act like they are giving me soimething. This is why I think thier paint is so over priced. I talked to my rep and his big shot boss. I guess I habve to tell them I am going elswhere to get them to realize. Whty does it have to be this way. I understand it is a volume thing but I feel even the smaller contractors should be treated fairly. Imo they lose business because they won't compete with other vendors. I know other general contractors who buy paint at SW but not volume and this is what they pay.


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## DanielMDollaPainting (Feb 24, 2011)

What really pisses me off is when I have to bvuy multiple gallons at the 40% off retail sale and this price is 12$ cheaper than my normal price. I f thety afford to sell it at that to home owners and then they screw me everyday.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

DanielMDollaPainting said:


> Imo they lose business because they won't compete with other vendors. I know other general contractors who buy paint at SW but not volume and this is what they pay.


Thats funny because people say the same thing about BM 

If you're a "small fish", then change your business model. If you cant compete with the big guys.....dont try. Bid jobs with premium products and focus on selling your company and not your price. Level the playing field. :yes:


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## RaleighPainter (Jun 13, 2011)

NCPaint1 said:


> I sort of disagree with this. It seems that SW has special product pricing these days, not just a tiered discount of years past. You may receive a great price on a handful of products, but a marginal discount on others. I know guys paying in the teens for Pro mar, and over $40 for Super Paint, then others are paying $27( cheapest ive actually seen on a receipt ) for Super Paint and in the high $20's for Pro Mar.
> 
> So maybe this guy has a sweet price on something else, and doesnt use a bunch of Super Paint, so thats why its $40.


I understand, however, I need to have some idea what I'm paying across the board... not whatever price they feel like giving me for whatever reason...I want to be able to price with a premium paint or a mid grade paint there is zero value if I'm getting a fantastic price on one product but your going to stick it to me on another... that's a mind game and it works out to be the same.


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## RaleighPainter (Jun 13, 2011)

DanielMDollaPainting said:


> What really pisses me off is when I have to bvuy multiple gallons at the 40% off retail sale and this price is 12$ cheaper than my normal price. I f thety afford to sell it at that to home owners and then they screw me everyday.


Don't put up with it man, if they see you almost everyday tell them you are going to get paint elsewhere until they can figure out your pricing.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Julian&co said:


> Don't put up with it man, if they see you almost everyday tell them you are going to get paint elsewhere until they can figure out your pricing.


He said he spent 2500 this last year. Thats not a whole lot of paint...


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

DanielMDollaPainting said:


> I here ya guys. Look I have only been buying SW for almost two years. Last year I think I spent 1600$. This year I am at 2550$ now and still have a whole house interior to do. I am not a big fish. I started paying 17$ for promar400. Now it's 21.99. I have to pay over 29.00 for pm200. 57 for ext duration. They are giving me 10% off basically on the homowner lines. They say I'm getting 50% off promar lines but they just mark it up then act like they are giving me soimething. This is why I think thier paint is so over priced. I talked to my rep and his big shot boss. I guess I habve to tell them I am going elswhere to get them to realize. Whty does it have to be this way. I understand it is a volume thing but I feel even the smaller contractors should be treated fairly. Imo they lose business because they won't compete with other vendors. I know other general contractors who buy paint at SW but not volume and this is what they pay.


I would talk to your rep anyways and remind them that you have a two year relationship and see if there is anything better they can do for you for your regular lines that you purchase.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Workaholic said:


> I would talk to your rep anyways and remind them that you have a two year relationship and see if there is anything better they can do for you for your regular lines that you purchase.


Right, I get asked all the time by guys for better pricing. Then their history shows like 2k a year or less in purchases. If I ask my suppliers for a better price, you know what they tell me?......... " Buy more ". :yes: The length of the relationship plays little into the pricing end. Sure its good for different perks, letting accounts ride, referrals, etc etc. But it's hard to justify lowering a price for someone thats just not spending enough to cover the discount.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

NCPaint1 said:


> Right, I get asked all the time by guys for better pricing. Then their history shows like 2k a year or less in purchases. If I ask my suppliers for a better price, you know what they tell me?......... " Buy more ". :yes: The length of the relationship plays little into the pricing end. Sure its good for different perks, letting accounts ride, referrals, etc etc. But it's hard to justify lowering a price for someone thats just not spending enough to cover the discount.


I understand that. 

I am guessing here but maybe DanielM is actually spending more than 2500.00 on product and supplies throughout the year but just not all at SW. Maybe make SW a one stop store so you can move up a bit. Of course if he is saving more else where than what he is spending on SP then keep doing what you are doing. 

Either way it is what it is. We all operate differently and we all have different priorities and different procedures.


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## DanielMDollaPainting (Feb 24, 2011)

Even if I only spent 2500 this year there, I am a contractor. Point is they run 40% off sales for homeowners who buy 2 or three gallons each and then they don't come in again for years. The contractors complained about the sale and now they give it to us too. Any smart homeowner can buiy all the paint they need each year if they wait and buy during one of these sales a few tinmes a year. We have to buy any given day. They shouldn't ever get the paint cheaper than the contractor. If they can sell it for a month at that price they can sell it everyday at that price. I understand overhead in business, like field reps getting paid to drive around and waste gas to come to my jobs, bother me and slow my production. Imo, the paint costs 10$ a gallon to produce and 30$ a gallon to sell.
Let me tell you a story. One time my brother went into an F&H store to get paint as a GC and paid 8$ for a gal. for paint and small quantity( quite a few yrs ago)My Dad was paying 12$ for the same paint and my bnrother said"you're getting ripped off". My brother and dad went into the store where my father went for years and said something. The manager who ww knew for years says'I don't know why you're dad is at that level" and makes an adjustment. Why does it have to come to negotiating. The great thing about the big box is the workers get paid by the hour not commission or some super high salary that they worry about moving product to justify it. Everyone pays the same upfront price. I am a nice guy like my dad was and I don't feel like I should have to negotiate or threaten to buy elsewhere to get them to lower my price. For them to do it after that is just an insult because they were ripping me off anyway. 
I think the whole tiered pricing based on how much you buy is a joke. There is a bottom line sale price on each product and anything over that is profit. The amount they want to charge any given person who walks in the door is up to thier talented trained salesmen to decide. All paint stores are the sameway. Buying paint shouldn't be like haggling a used car salesmen.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

It's America. The right to make a dollar is the same for a paint store as it is for you.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

DanielMDollaPainting said:


> Even if I only spent 2500 this year there, I am a contractor. Point is they run 40% off sales for homeowners who buy 2 or three gallons each and then they don't come in again for years. The contractors complained about the sale and now they give it to us too. Any smart homeowner can buiy all the paint they need each year if they wait and buy during one of these sales a few tinmes a year. We have to buy any given day. They shouldn't ever get the paint cheaper than the contractor. If they can sell it for a month at that price they can sell it everyday at that price. I understand overhead in business, like field reps getting paid to drive around and waste gas to come to my jobs, bother me and slow my production. Imo, the paint costs 10$ a gallon to produce and 30$ a gallon to sell.
> Let me tell you a story. One time my brother went into an F&H store to get paint as a GC and paid 8$ for a gal. for paint and small quantity( quite a few yrs ago)My Dad was paying 12$ for the same paint and my bnrother said"you're getting ripped off". My brother and dad went into the store where my father went for years and said something. The manager who ww knew for years says'I don't know why you're dad is at that level" and makes an adjustment. Why does it have to come to negotiating. The great thing about the big box is the workers get paid by the hour not commission or some super high salary that they worry about moving product to justify it. Everyone pays the same upfront price. I am a nice guy like my dad was and I don't feel like I should have to negotiate or threaten to buy elsewhere to get them to lower my price. For them to do it after that is just an insult because they were ripping me off anyway.
> I think the whole tiered pricing based on how much you buy is a joke. There is a bottom line sale price on each product and anything over that is profit. The amount they want to charge any given person who walks in the door is up to thier talented trained salesmen to decide. All paint stores are the sameway. Buying paint shouldn't be like haggling a used car salesmen.


Just so you know I was not knocking you.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Neither was I. I just like to give a view from the other side of the counter. 

And if I paid $10 for a gallon and sold it for $30....there'd be an Aston Martin parked behind my shop and not a Dodge. If I paid $10/gal it would sell for $15'ish minus tint cost.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

NCPaint1 said:


> Neither was I. I just like to give a view from the other side of the counter.
> 
> And if I paid $10 for a gallon and sold it for $30....there'd be an Aston Martin parked behind my shop and not a Dodge. .


You forgot to mention your Dodge is a Viper :whistling2:


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Woodland said:


> You forgot to mention your Dodge is a Viper :whistling2:


I wish, its just a Charger with a straight frame. :whistling2:


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## DanielMDollaPainting (Feb 24, 2011)

NCPaint1 said:


> Right, I get asked all the time by guys for better pricing. Then their history shows like 2k a year or less in purchases. If I ask my suppliers for a better price, you know what they tell me?......... " Buy more ". :yes: The length of the relationship plays little into the pricing end. Sure its good for different perks, letting accounts ride, referrals, etc etc. But it's hard to justify lowering a price for someone thats just not spending enough to cover the discount.


 As far as I know Sw gives the same 10% discount to homeowners. All they have to do is fill out a card. 
I am wondering why I have to pay 17.50 for a quart of all surface oil enamel in black and Rustoleum is 8.98 at Lowes. How much do I have to spend at SW to get to a pricing tier where I pay what the product is actually worth? When I tried to talk pricing they like to turn the conversation into something other than the numbers. It is always about "quality and service".


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

DanielMDollaPainting said:


> As far as I know Sw gives the same 10% discount to homeowners. All they have to do is fill out a card.
> I am wondering why I have to pay 17.50 for a quart of all surface oil enamel in black and Rustoleum is 8.98 at Lowes. How much do I have to spend at SW to get to a pricing tier where I pay what the product is actually worth? When I tried to talk pricing they like to turn the conversation into something other than the numbers. It is always about "quality and service".


Ask these SW guys in this thread
http://www.painttalk.com/f3/hello-16290/


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

DanielMDollaPainting said:


> As far as I know Sw gives the same 10% discount to homeowners. All they have to do is fill out a card.
> I am wondering why I have to pay 17.50 for a quart of all surface oil enamel in black and Rustoleum is 8.98 at Lowes. How much do I have to spend at SW to get to a pricing tier where I pay what the product is actually worth? When I tried to talk pricing they like to turn the conversation into something other than the numbers. It is always about "quality and service".


Pricing for quarts is not good whomever you are. Buying a gallon is typically a buck or two more for me as well. Its a game deal with it or be resentful. Your choice.


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## Nephew Sherwin (Oct 7, 2011)

Paradigmzz said:


> It's America. The right to make a dollar is the same for a paint store as it is for you.


All I have to say is Amen.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

DanielMDollaPainting said:


> As far as I know Sw gives the same 10% discount to homeowners. All they have to do is fill out a card.
> I am wondering why I have to pay 17.50 for a quart of all surface oil enamel in black and Rustoleum is 8.98 at Lowes. How much do I have to spend at SW to get to a pricing tier where I pay what the product is actually worth? When I tried to talk pricing they like to turn the conversation into something other than the numbers. It is always about "quality and service".


Quarts are always higher no matter where you go. As for SW pricing tier? I couldnt say for sure. I guess it depends on the rep and a contractors ability to negotiate. I get very good prices on SP. Lower than many who buy a good bit more than I do. Some of my prices on other products I rarely use are not so great. Pick out a couple main products you use the most and see what they can do for you.


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## Nephew Sherwin (Oct 7, 2011)

Woodland said:


> Quarts are always higher no matter where you go. As for SW pricing tier? I couldnt say for sure. I guess it depends on the rep and a contractors ability to negotiate. I get very good prices on SP. Lower than many who buy a good bit more than I do. Some of my prices on other products I rarely use are not so great. Pick out a couple main products you use the most and see what they can do for you.


There are up to five with two tiers having to be approved by the area manager. Tiers are based on potential paint sales for the year, first tier is seldom used now because everybody complains about pricing nowadays, second tier I put GC's, small property owners, remodelers, etc. third tier pro painters, bigger property owners etc. There are always exceptions and urge you to use them, if there is a big job coming up and you have a select number of products you want to use ,give your rep or manager a call and explain that you are in the bidding process, you can always workout a better price like that and it'll be job specific. You also have woodlands exception were you can stick to a particular product like superpaint and get "exception" pricing on that item which can be worked out by expectations. We have to justify these types of pricing to our bosses so we need info from you guys on the field about what the " market price" should be for that specific client based on expectations, volume, and margin ( business is business). Hope this helps.


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## RaleighPainter (Jun 13, 2011)

That's kind of backwards... if a paint contractor mainly does interior work and a lot of it, why can't they get good prices on the 2 or 3 exteriors they do without a battle? Just doesn't make sense.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Im just happy my thread is coming up on 100 replies! :thumbup: Keep em coming guys. :yes: Also, and I dont know how much longer this will go on, but SW has been having a lot of 40% off sales lately. With a little planning in advance its a good opportunity to save $$$$$$ :whistling2: At least it has been for me


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Julian&co said:


> That's kind of backwards... if a paint contractor mainly does interior work and a lot of it, why can't they get good prices on the 2 or 3 exteriors they do without a battle? Just doesn't make sense.


 I see your point, but its also business as it is anywhere else. Go buy a brand new truck from the same dealership every couple of years. See what happens if you dont go in there and do a little negotiating each time despite being a loyal customer


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## Nephew Sherwin (Oct 7, 2011)

Woodland said:


> Im just happy my thread is coming up on 100 replies! :thumbup: Keep em coming guys. :yes: Also, and I dont know how much longer this will go on, but SW has been having a lot of 40% off sales lately. With a little planning in advance its a good opportunity to save $$$$$$ :whistling2: At least it has been for me


True ,me and a few other managers were talking about how our regular DIY business has actually been hurting our regular sales because of our "super sales".I mean I don't blame them as a consumer, I always wait for sales. I've told a few contractors that complain about our premium product prices to stock up on the sheen you want in extra white base and come back for the color,free of charge.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I have pretty good prices on paint, but I agree that the way its done now is not how I want to do business. Sundries is one area that I have to be careful, and look at the price before I buy something.


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## DanielMDollaPainting (Feb 24, 2011)

Nephew Sherwin said:


> True ,me and a few other managers were talking about how our regular DIY business has actually been hurting our regular sales because of our "super sales".I mean I don't blame them as a consumer, I always wait for sales. I've told a few contractors that complain about our premium product prices to stock up on the sheen you want in extra white base and come back for the color,free of charge.


 I did this before. My point is they will sell me or anybody superpaint this weekend for 29.99. Then next week when I have to buy paint for a whole two story interior, I have to pay 41.50 or "negotiate". I guess my point and opinion, and the SW guys don't want to hear it is, Duration is no better than Behr Ultra and super paint is no better than Behr premium which is now selling for 19.99. I have used Valspar duramax and it performs just like duration. When my Sw rep and manager take me to breakfast to meet and smooze me I am paying for it with these prices. They can't even sell purdy for what HD does and they own the company. 

Sorry for my venting guys. I guess it is up to me to put my foot down with SW or deal with hit or miss service of HD. I want a new and improved paint store. The best of both worlds. Were there is always someone to mix paint. Always plenty of paint in stock. Big box prices. I don't need salsemen taking me to breakfast or running a gallon of paint to my job. My rep said he could "demo" me a gallon of something here or there. I haven't seen a free gallon yet. When I try something new I pay for it and nobody ever says" We don't want your money today, it's on the house".


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## Nephew Sherwin (Oct 7, 2011)

DanielMDollaPainting said:


> I did this before. My point is they will sell me or anybody superpaint this weekend for 29.99. Then next week when I have to buy paint for a whole two story interior, I have to pay 41.50 or "negotiate". I guess my point and opinion, and the SW guys don't want to hear it is, Duration is no better than Behr Ultra and super paint is no better than Behr premium which is now selling for 19.99. I have used Valspar duramax and it performs just like duration. When my Sw rep and manager take me to breakfast to meet and smooze me I am paying for it with these prices. They can't even sell purdy for what HD does and they own the company.
> 
> Sorry for my venting guys. I guess it is up to me to put my foot down with SW or deal with hit or miss service of HD. I want a new and improved paint store. The best of both worlds. Were there is always someone to mix paint. Always plenty of paint in stock. Big box prices. I don't need salsemen taking me to breakfast or running a gallon of paint to my job. My rep said he could "demo" me a gallon of something here or there. I haven't seen a free gallon yet. When I try something new I pay for it and nobody ever says" We don't want your money today, it's on the house".


The key to that dream world is in the breakfast believe it or not, write down your demands/expectations and sell how beneficial it would be for sw to gain your business. One of the problems is that your not willing to negotiate, why not just play the game and take one hour out your day for that breakfast so that it can potentially save you hundreds even thousands of dollars in materials cost a year. I'm just saying that's the nature of business, businesses are always trying to get the most money out of a product and consumers are always trying to get it for the least,econ 101. Im sure you guys deal with it on a daily basis with your customers. As far as sundries make your rep work for you and have them match the big box stores prices.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Yah, I thought about it one time and did it. On a new construction. We had to put an epoxy coating down on concrete floors in the mechanical room and a couple of mechanical closets on one of our projects. We did the prep on a friday, and went in on saturday to coat them. We ran out of the epoxy in the mechanical room and first closet. It was a holiday weekend, dont remember which, but SW and BM were closed, but HD wasnt. So I grabbed Behr's 2 part for concrete and we put it on. 

IT FLAKED RIGHT OFF ON MONDAY MORNING!!!!!

Only one in the group that failed, and for no apparent reason. Good thing it was only a small closet floor, but I cant risk that. No messing around on product for me.


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## robladd (Nov 22, 2010)

vermontpainter said:


> Yah, I thought about it one time and did it. On a new construction. We had to put an epoxy coating down on concrete floors in the mechanical room and a couple of mechanical closets on one of our projects. We did the prep on a friday, and went in on saturday to coat them. We ran out of the epoxy in the mechanical room and first closet. It was a holiday weekend, dont remember which, but SW and BM were closed, but HD wasnt. So I grabbed Behr's 2 part for concrete and we put it on.
> 
> IT FLAKED RIGHT OFF ON MONDAY MORNING!!!!!
> 
> Only one in the group that failed, and for no apparent reason. Good thing it was only a small closet floor, but I cant risk that. No messing around on product for me.


Why didn't you use Rustoleum? Hd carries this product and I have had good results with it.

Love or Hate the Box. Your choice


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## robladd (Nov 22, 2010)

jack pauhl said:


> I've really spent a great deal of time minimizing my paint buying experiences to ordering paint like ordering chinese and I prefer to have little conversation during the process. In my situation, my ordering paints evolved into a more simplified expectational approach to the point I would prefer to punch it up on an iPad and have it waiting when I get there.


I can't put it any better. I don't need anybody buying me breakfast, lunch or dinner and promising me free paint.

I just want what I need when I need it at a fair price.

I can make orders in the evening and pick them up at the pro desk in the morning.

Enough said


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## pucks101 (Mar 29, 2012)

DanielMDollaPainting said:


> What really pisses me off is when I have to bvuy multiple gallons at the 40% off retail sale and this price is 12$ cheaper than my normal price. I f thety afford to sell it at that to home owners and then they screw me everyday.


My local SW store tells me you can buy as much base as you want when they have the 40% off sale, and bring it back to be tinted for free any time. Just something to think about if you want to stock up on something you use frequently...


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