# Cut in techniques; everyone seems to do it a little differently.



## AaronKM (Dec 11, 2017)

I'm going stir crazy waiting for painting season to start, so this is how I'm getting my paint fix.

Through my small amount of experience, I've found that everyone cuts in a little differently.

The Idaho Painter (YouTube) back rolls his cut ins with a 4" nap. A little time consuming it would seem, but man does it leave a sweet finish.

As a newbie ill be cutting in however my lead suggests.

Do any of you have any unique tricks to your cut ins?


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

I tried backrolling my cuts when I first started thinking it would save me time. I think he does it to try and get away with one coat cut. That never works. I now cut everything twice, then roll twice. I do mostly occupied residential and you can't leave all your masking stuff down at the end of the day, so we work one entire area that we can get completed start to finish in a day. So by lunch time, we have everything dropped, masked, prepped, cut twice, then rolled. After lunch, second roll, clean up, put everything back like it was.
From trial and error, I have found the right brush and roller set ups that work for us and the paints we use. We don't do a lot of masking, too time consuming and costly, everything is cut very little to no tape.


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## kerryman71 (Oct 9, 2017)

I do the same thing when cutting in, using a 4" roller. I don't do it to try for one coat coverage though, as I always do two coats, both cut in and rolling the walls. 

The majority of my work is also occupied residential interiors, where I primarily use a 14 or 18 inch roller cover with the Sherlock Wideboy adjustable frame, which can't get tight into corners due to the frame itself, so rolling with the 4" roller helps. 

That combination works well for me, and I find I can move pretty quickly doing it. 

John


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## AaronKM (Dec 11, 2017)

I've actually been meaning to ask you guys, I painted an accent wall for my mom and she only had enough paint for one coat. My cut in left a horrible brush stroke, which I was afraid would happen. How can I fix it?


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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

back rolling cuts is unnecessary. biggest mistake i see is people having too much paint in their can so it crawls up the brush and drips everywhere, sign of a bad painter. also dont wipe paint off your brush on the lip of your cut can, tap the paint off both sides of the brush well inside the can to load, wet paint on the lip gets on your brush then gets everywhere. 

no unique tips other than first coat i unload a few millimeters off my cut line, this is mainly for speed. first coat is to get colour behind it, second is to line it up proper. trying to make a perfect cut twice is a waste of time i find.

to get brush strokes out i would palm sand but there probably is a better way


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## goga (Aug 6, 2015)

MikeCalifornia said:


> I tried backrolling my cuts when I first started thinking it would save me time. I think he does it to try and get away with one coat cut.  That never works. I now cut everything twice, then roll twice. I do mostly occupied residential and you can't leave all your masking stuff down at the end of the day, so we work one entire area that we can get completed start to finish in a day. So by lunch time, we have everything dropped, masked, prepped, cut twice, then rolled. After lunch, second roll, clean up, put everything back like it was.
> From trial and error, I have found the right brush and roller set ups that work for us and the paints we use. We don't do a lot of masking, too time consuming and costly, everything is cut very little to no tape.


Wrong. Works every time.. well, for me maybe and Idaho Painter))

PS: just gotta know how to do it.


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## goga (Aug 6, 2015)

The thing is, that you have to care about the guy behind you, 4" roller drops the cut line down to 6, which makes a rolling a much more playful, especially with 18".


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## goga (Aug 6, 2015)

Vylum said:


> back rolling cuts is unnecessary. biggest mistake i see is people having too much paint in their can so it crawls up the brush and drips everywhere, sign of a bad painter. also dont wipe paint off your brush on the lip of your cut can, tap the paint off both sides of the brush well inside the can to load, wet paint on the lip gets on your brush then gets everywhere.
> 
> no unique tips other than first coat i unload a few millimeters off my cut line, this is mainly for speed. first coat is to get colour behind it, second is to line it up proper. trying to make a perfect cut twice is a waste of time i find.
> 
> to get brush strokes out i would palm sand but there probably is a better way


First pass is a clean cut, second just plow through in a half time. Brush strokes are eliminated by 4" nap coming as close to the cut line as possible and heading down to 6-8". Speed is the in the tool you use and the right ladder position to have a full hand stretch-stroke of about 8-10' at a time.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

I still dont understand why anyone would do their cut ins before the first coat is rolled. You end up wasting a TON of time, AND you end up with a lapped area that essentially has four coats of paint. Usually not a problem, but I've seen it turn into one. Thats one of the first things I make clear to my guys: Roll, cut, cut, then roll again. It also gets the paint drying quicker.

Anyway, my cut in technique is to swipe the majority of the paint about a half inch under the corner, then almost dry-cut a line in the corner as perfect as possible, then gather some of the paint from under the corner to fill it in. Second coat goes much faster.

Sometimes, If its really high up, and the color change isnt to drastic, I will very quickly dry brush everything I can reach getting about 1/4" from the corner. Then I start my cut in process. If you're lucky, the dry brushed part tacks up almost immediately, and when you do your good coat, it will cover as if its a second coat. I do this with facia's too sometimes.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

The only time you should actually need to back roll the cuts is when you are using a 5hitty paint! Thus, Idaho painters' technique! Any quality paint should leave a pretty invisible difference between a brushed cut and a rolled wall. This is actually used as a benchmark test by paint manufacturers and is a normal industry indication of a paints application quality. Behr sucks at it as do quite a few SW products. Most paint companies have low end paints that don't "finish transition" worth a crap. The backrolling technique is just the way painters have to correct the problem that wouldn't be a problem if they didn't use that particular paint. There really is no labor ($$$$$) or time ($$$$$) savings in using that technique at all. Paint company reps will recommend it all the time as a way to cover up for their 5hitty product and in some parts of the country it is quite prevalent. Mainly because they use or have to use such bad paint.

This is a topic that drives me up a wall, and that "finish transition" issue is how i can pick-out a Promar 200 painted wall every time! (damn i let my secret out!)


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

AaronKM said:


> I'm going stir crazy waiting for painting season to start, so this is how I'm getting my paint fix.
> 
> Through my small amount of experience, I've found that everyone cuts in a little differently.
> 
> ...


If it were me during the down time, I would have been inclined to enroll in a community college taking a course in construction management, welding, electronics, or something other than watching painters on youtube videos. Especially, if I were at the beginning of my working career. Currently, it doesn't really matter for me.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

I always do my cut and begin to roll as I work along a wall. I roll down a foot or two and then backtrack and finish rolling out the wall from off the ladder. I know, that maybe seems odd but you can skip telling me why it doesn’t work because I’ve *never* had an issue doing it that way. In fact, hat banding has also never been a problem.


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## AaronKM (Dec 11, 2017)

CApainter said:


> AaronKM said:
> 
> 
> > I'm going stir crazy waiting for painting season to start, so this is how I'm getting my paint fix.
> ...


Oh believe me, I'm being productive. I'm always productive. Idle time is poison to me.

I'm using the time to earn credits toward my business degree. Enrolled in Pre-Calculus and Accounting. Doing well in both.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

AaronKM said:


> Oh believe me, I'm being productive. I'm always productive. Idle time is poison to me.
> 
> I'm using the time to earn credits toward my business degree. Enrolled in Pre-Calculus and Accounting. Doing well in both.


That's awesome. I wish I would have been more focused when I was younger.


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## kerryman71 (Oct 9, 2017)

Cutting in with the 4 inch works for me. It's not because I use crap paint, because I don't, I use Benjamin Moore. I'm not concerned so much with banding, it just allows me to roll faster. The time spent doing the cut in, which really isn't that much, is probably saved when I'm rolling and not having to get too tight to the ceiling or base. I agree that someone using inferior paint has no choice but to do it.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

AaronKM said:


> Oh believe me, I'm being productive. I'm always productive. Idle time is poison to me.
> 
> I'm using the time to earn credits toward my business degree. Enrolled in Pre-Calculus and Accounting. Doing well in both.


If you do well in math I would sure look at other options than painting for a lifetime career. Not knocking the profession in any way, just saying it seems that you would have a ton of paths open to you.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

kerryman71 said:


> Cutting in with the 4 inch works for me. It's not because I use crap paint, because I don't, I use Benjamin Moore. I'm not concerned so much with banding, it just allows me to roll faster. The time spent doing the cut in, which really isn't that much, is probably saved when I'm rolling and not having to get too tight to the ceiling or base. I agree that someone using inferior paint has no choice but to do it.


I'm not saying it doesn't work, just that MOST of the time painters do it to compensate for a less than ideal paint. It works fine.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

RH said:


> If you do well in math I would sure look at other options than painting for a lifetime career. Not knocking the profession in any way, just saying it seems that you would have a ton of paths open to you.


You would think so, wouldn't you? But do you know what math "experts" do? teach math!


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## TrueColors (Jul 30, 2010)

You guys are crazy and over analyse everything. Cut, roll, cut , roll, done.

Skip the fancy Wizz rollers, back roll crap and just paint. One nice cut making all your lines crisp and 2nd cut just to fill in colour... Rolling, no back roll at all, back rolling only gives you issues with zebra stripes or wall shadowing. Especially with Ben Moore as it dries so fast, put the paint on the wall and don't touch it, let it do its thing.


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## kerryman71 (Oct 9, 2017)

I agree with you about most guys doing it to compensate for lower quality paint.


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## loaded brush (Dec 27, 2007)

TrueColors said:


> You guys are crazy and over analyse everything. Cut, roll, cut , roll, done.
> 
> Skip the fancy Wizz rollers, back roll crap and just paint. One nice cut making all your lines crisp and 2nd cut just to fill in colour... Rolling, no back roll at all, back rolling only gives you issues with zebra stripes or wall shadowing. Especially with Ben Moore as it dries so fast, put the paint on the wall and don't touch it, let it do its thing.


Couldn’t have said it better myself.


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## Tprice2193 (Oct 3, 2017)

Us life long learners are anal. We prefer to over analyse. God forbid an under analysis! We like to think we are moving the profession forward. You OODA loopers more than compensate for us. Together we are just a big happy family. Look it up "The OODA loop."


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## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

I think the whole key is to find that ONE brush that holds plenty of paint and is firm enough (yet not too firm) to give you that nice, long cut-line that is adequately filled in with the right amount of paint. True, you don't have to bankroll the cuts right away anymore because the paint sets up way too fast so cutting in the whole room before picking up the roller works well. (Although I understand why Woodco does it the way he does). Also, turning the brush backward with the short end of a tapered brush pointed back towards you, releases paint in a way to get into tight spots and also releases paint from that part of the brush so you don't have to dip as often.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

PACman said:


> You would think so, wouldn't you? But do you know what math "experts" do? teach math!


Well, some do - but nothing wrong with that. Engineering and being an electrician are two others that quickly come to mind.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

TrueColors said:


> You guys are crazy and over analyse everything. Cut, roll, cut , roll, done.
> 
> Skip the fancy Wizz rollers, back roll crap and just paint. One nice cut making all your lines crisp and 2nd cut just to fill in colour... Rolling, no back roll at all, back rolling only gives you issues with zebra stripes or wall shadowing. Especially with Ben Moore as it dries so fast, put the paint on the wall and don't touch it, let it do its thing.


What do you mean over anylyse? A thread about brush keepers with 66 posts (and counting) seems perfectly normal to me.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

RH said:


> Well, some do - but nothing wrong with that. Engineering and being an electrician are two others that quickly come to mind.


Engineers actually do math about as often as i paint! Their damn i-pads do all of that for them now.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

RH said:


> What do you mean over anylyse? A thread about brush keepers with 66 posts (and counting) seems perfectly normal to me.


Do i need to bump the "does the universe end?" thread because i will!


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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

TrueColors said:


> You guys are crazy and over analyse everything. Cut, roll, cut , roll, done.
> 
> Skip the fancy Wizz rollers, back roll crap and just paint. One nice cut making all your lines crisp and 2nd cut just to fill in colour.


this is a painting forum, one of the few places on the planet where we can be geeks about trade and not get weird looks. i also dont see advantage to attacking your line right away rather than priming close to your line then straightening on the second pass. the way you describe how you paint makes me skeptical of your finish


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## AaronKM (Dec 11, 2017)

RH said:


> AaronKM said:
> 
> 
> > Oh believe me, I'm being productive. I'm always productive. Idle time is poison to me.
> ...


I'm decent at math. Not the best, not the worst. Thing is, I like painting, and it opens up the door for me to start and build a business.

I have considered accounting/finance or engineering etc. My dad is an engineer and I've job shadowed him. It just doesn't excite me the way the trades do. With the plan I have now, I jump out of bed every morning ready to work toward the end goal.


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## rosespainting (Mar 16, 2014)

AaronKM said:


> I'm decent at math. Not the best, not the worst. Thing is, I like painting, and it opens up the door for me to start and build a business.
> 
> I have considered accounting/finance or engineering etc. My dad is an engineer and I've job shadowed him. It just doesn't excite me the way the trades do. With the plan I have now, I jump out of bed every morning ready to work toward the end goal.


 
That excitement (one of my business professors called it the "leap factor") is great. Too many people don't have that. 

I don't see anything wrong with people having their own process that works for them. whether they cut first then roll, roll first. sharp lines on the first cut or the second. I think differentiation is a good thing. 

I don't understand having to do extra steps to compensate for a bad product. It can't possibly be worth the savings on the paint with the extra time wasted.


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

AaronKM said:


> I've found that everyone cuts in a little differently.


So far in this thread you have hit that nail squarely on the head.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Vylum said:


> this is a painting forum, one of the few places on the planet where we can be geeks about trade and not get weird looks. i also dont see advantage to attacking your line right away rather than priming close to your line then straightening on the second pass. the way you describe how you paint makes me skeptical of your finish




The advantage to striking a finish line on the first pass seems obvious to me. You get to see what it’s going to look like from afar. If you hit it perfect the first time, great. More likely an improvement can be made here and there and where it can’t you can stay back a tad an gain speed there. 

If you cut your finish line last you only get to see what it looks like after your done. Seems backwards to me. 



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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

Jmayspaint said:


> The advantage to striking a finish line on the first pass seems obvious to me. You get to see what it’s going to look like from afar. If you hit it perfect the first time, great. More likely an improvement can be made here and there and where it can’t you can stay back a tad an gain speed there.
> 
> If you cut your finish line last you only get to see what it looks like after your done. Seems backwards to me.
> 
> ...


i guess if you produce an inconsistent cut line i could see the advantage


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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

Woodco said:


> I still dont understand why anyone would do their cut ins before the first coat is rolled. You end up wasting a TON of time, AND you end up with a lapped area that essentially has four coats of paint. Usually not a problem, but I've seen it turn into one. Thats one of the first things I make clear to my guys: Roll, cut, cut, then roll again. It also gets the paint drying quicker.
> 
> 
> 
> Sometimes, If its really high up, and the color change isnt to drastic, I will very quickly dry brush everything I can reach getting about 1/4" from the corner. Then I start my cut in process. If you're lucky, the dry brushed part tacks up almost immediately, and when you do your good coat, it will cover as if its a second coat. I do this with facia's too sometimes.


im not oppose to rolling first but if youre doing one room i cut first so i can roll right after im done cutting, if you roll first youll have to wait till it drys to cut it (you can still cut it but it drags and is a pain). if you got time and space why not but you might be exaggerating how much time it saves (excluding closets, bathrooms, tight spaces in which rolling first does save a ton of time i agree). i like your last dry brush tip, ill have to try it


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Vylum said:


> i guess if you produce an inconsistent cut line i could see the advantage




What’s the advantage to doing last? 
You’ve got two trips to make around the room. One will go fast because you’re not trying to strike a perfect line, the other will go slower because you are. 

How is doing it last any better than doing it first? 


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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

Jmayspaint said:


> What’s the advantage to doing last?
> You’ve got two trips to make around the room. One will go fast because you’re not trying to strike a perfect line, the other will go slower because you are.
> 
> How is doing it last any better than doing it first?
> ...


Speed wise: Fast prime coat + line up once on finish coat > line up on first coat + line up on second coat

Quality wise: i believe for professional grade cuts one must "adjust" his line as little as possible. one smooth consistent drag for best results, no going back over fresh cut to fix waves.

i believe hitting your line right away psychologically pulls you into lining up your cut twice which takes time and leads to more "adjustments". am a being pedantic and are there tons of pros who "line it up twice" and it looks near perfect in little time? forsure. im just saying what works for me and from what ive witnessed.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

Vylum said:


> im not oppose to rolling first but if youre doing one room i cut first so i can roll right after im done cutting, if you roll first youll have to wait till it drys to cut it (you can still cut it but it drags and is a pain). if you got time and space why not but you might be exaggerating how much time it saves (excluding closets, bathrooms, tight spaces in which rolling first does save a ton of time i agree). i like your last dry brush tip, ill have to try it


I cut in immediately after Im done rolling the room. It doesnt bother me if the walls are wet. If it drags a little bit, oh well. The amount of time saved makes it worth it to me. As far as that... Yeah, it saves a ton of time, as you only cut in where you need to. I see people cut in first, and they waste time and paint by cutting in corners three inches out, twice. That takes time. Do it after you roll, and you barely need to run a brush down the corner. Every thing else gets cut way further out than is needed. Three inches out on jambs, when a roller gets within an inch. 

I've bet several people money that my way is faster, and I've won every time, by a long shot.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Woodco said:


> I cut in immediately after Im done rolling the room. It doesnt bother me if the walls are wet. If it drags a little bit, oh well. The amount of time saved makes it worth it to me. As far as that... Yeah, it saves a ton of time, as you only cut in where you need to. I see people cut in first, and they waste time and paint by cutting in corners three inches out, twice. That takes time. Do it after you roll, and you barely need to run a brush down the corner. Every thing else gets cut way further out than is needed. Three inches out on jambs, when a roller gets within an inch.
> 
> I've bet several people money that my way is faster, and I've won every time, by a long shot.




I do it that way too when possible. Sometimes we’ll have repairs going on the walls and have to start with cutting in first, but if I can I’ll always roll first. 
Not only does it save time not doing all that unnecessary brushing, it saves material. May not seem like it would waste that much having that 2-3 inch four coat strip all around the room, but it adds up. Especially if your cutting it close to begin with. 
For example, say you’ve got a powder room with 200 sqft of wall space to do twice. The wasted footage from the unnecessary overlap could very well be the difference in finishing it with one gallon or having to buy, and waste most of, another. 


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

I was doing the roll, cut, cut, roll thing for while a few years back. Then I was working for a GC I get a lot of work from and he kept on going on about how he'd never seen that done before and didn't really like the idea much. Thus, I stopped. I did like the idea of getting the field drying in the interests of keeping things moving along.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Do any of you run a base line when cutting in? 
I mean running a quick line of paint right next to the surface your about to cut to. Like 1/4 inch away or less. Then dip again and cut the line. 
The idea is that the wet base line being there keeps your brush from drying out so fast while you strike the finished line. Therefore allowing you to strike longer lines with each stroke. Generally longer = straighter. Less stops and starts. 

I don’t do it all the time, but pretty often. Picked that trick up here in another cutting in thread years ago. Just curious if any other current members have tried it.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Jmayspaint said:


> Do any of you run a base line when cutting in?
> I mean running a quick line of paint right next to the surface your about to cut to. Like 1/4 inch away or less. Then dip again and cut the line.
> The idea is that the wet base line being there keeps your brush from drying out so fast while you strike the finished line. Therefore allowing you to strike longer lines with each stroke. Generally longer = straighter. Less stops and starts.
> 
> I don’t do it all the time, but pretty often. Picked that trick up here in another cutting in thread years ago. Just curious if any other current members have tried it.


I've never thought to do that but will certainly give it a try. 

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

Jmayspaint said:


> Do any of you run a base line when cutting in?
> I mean running a quick line of paint right next to the surface your about to cut to. Like 1/4 inch away or less. Then dip again and cut the line.
> The idea is that the wet base line being there keeps your brush from drying out so fast while you strike the finished line. Therefore allowing you to strike longer lines with each stroke. Generally longer = straighter. Less stops and starts.
> 
> I don’t do it all the time, but pretty often. Picked that trick up here in another cutting in thread years ago. Just curious if any other current members have tried it.


Yeah, thats kind of how i do it, and how I was trying to explain.


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

PACman said:


> Do i need to bump the "does the universe end?" thread because i will!


Please do as it's more interesting than this thread!


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Woodco said:


> I still dont understand why anyone would do their cut ins before the first coat is rolled. You end up wasting a TON of time, AND you end up with a lapped area that essentially has four coats of paint. Usually not a problem, but I've seen it turn into one. Thats one of the first things I make clear to my guys: Roll, cut, cut, then roll again. It also gets the paint drying quicker.
> 
> Anyway, my cut in technique is to swipe the majority of the paint about a half inch under the corner, then almost dry-cut a line in the corner as perfect as possible, then gather some of the paint from under the corner to fill it in. Second coat goes much faster.
> 
> Sometimes, If its really high up, and the color change isnt to drastic, I will very quickly dry brush everything I can reach getting about 1/4" from the corner. Then I start my cut in process. If you're lucky, the dry brushed part tacks up almost immediately, and when you do your good coat, it will cover as if its a second coat. I do this with facia's too sometimes.


I do it that way on new construction, as seeing colour usually adds excitement for everyone. but on repaints there is usually more wall repairs. I do all my repairs and then cut in my first coat while I'm waiting for the repairs to dry..


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

finishesbykevyn said:


> I do it that way on new construction, but on repaints there is usually more wall repairs. I do all my repairs and then cut in my first coat while I'm waiting for the repairs to dry..


That makes perfect sense. Its all about getting stuff drying as soon as possible.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Jmayspaint said:


> Do any of you run a base line when cutting in?
> I mean running a quick line of paint right next to the surface your about to cut to. Like 1/4 inch away or less. Then dip again and cut the line.
> The idea is that the wet base line being there keeps your brush from drying out so fast while you strike the finished line. Therefore allowing you to strike longer lines with each stroke. Generally longer = straighter. Less stops and starts.
> 
> I don’t do it all the time, but pretty often. Picked that trick up here in another cutting in thread years ago. Just curious if any other current members have tried it.


 
All the time. I thought that was just the way everybody did it.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Cut your line, fill and fade. Cut, fill, fade was the mantra I was forced to repeat all day long when I was getting trained by my buddy who got me into this. Every now and again I still find myself saying this if it's quiet or I'm getting bored.


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

AaronKM said:


> I'm going stir crazy waiting for painting season to start, so this is how I'm getting my paint fix.
> 
> Through my small amount of experience, I've found that everyone cuts in a little differently.
> 
> ...


AaronKM, you cut in, I'll cut out.......


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

Brushman4 said:


> AaronKM, you cut in, I'll cut out.......


I worked with a crew from Georgia once that didn't cut in they "cut it out".
And if any of those guys are reading this, tell your boss I haven't forgot about the money he owes me.......


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

chrisn said:


> All the time. I thought that was just the way everybody did it.


Me too. Except I find with the new Low VOC paints it's not as flowy as it used to be. Depends on the colour sometimes. I also like to use an ovular 3" sash for big areas. It holds so much paint, I can cut as far as the eye can see with 1 dip.


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## loaded brush (Dec 27, 2007)

That why I love the Picasso brushes. Cut goes on forever. Unfortunately they don’t last long. When new they are steller. But they become stiff after only a few jobs. Don’t know if it’s the new breed of paint reacting with the bristle material or what. But as cheap as they are price wise you can buy a new one for every few jobs.


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## Painting Practice (Jul 21, 2013)

I used to go back and forth; do i take my time with the first cut and then blow through the second? Or vice versa? These days I choose a decent clip and do both cuts "moderately well". This way I eliminate the arduousness of a detail pass and can stay focused. Except for in cases where it has been bucking the trend of the crew around me I like to use my Pelican, with a four inch weenie and a 2.5 corona short handle. That's my go to set up. The weenie has to has nap around the end and not a plastic button so I can run corners in two strokes; up and down, done, without a hint of a brush stroke. A lot of times in kitchens for example the weenie is the choice for the smaller fields as well and things can really speed up.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Rembrandt ovals from Arroworthy*



loaded brush said:


> That why I love the Picasso brushes. Cut goes on forever. Unfortunately they don’t last long. When new they are steller. But they become stiff after only a few jobs. Don’t know if it’s the new breed of paint reacting with the bristle material or what. But as cheap as they are price wise you can buy a new one for every few jobs.


lb, you might want to give Rembrandt oval sash brushes a try and see if they compare favorably with Picasso:

http://www.uspaintsupply.com/paint/brushes/rembrandt-oval-angular-sash-brush-3/

futtyos


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Idea or final product?*



Wildbill7145 said:


> I was doing the roll, cut, cut, roll thing for while a few years back. Then I was working for a GC I get a lot of work from and he kept on going on about how he'd never seen that done before and didn't really like the idea much. Thus, I stopped. I did like the idea of getting the field drying in the interests of keeping things moving along.


Wb, your tale is a bit cryptic. Why didn't the GC like your way of cutting and rolling? Did the GC make any negative comments about how the finished product looked?

futtyos


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*NC vs repaints*

I suppose the title I have might merit its own thread, but I will ask it here anyway.

Do any here have a different technique for cutting and rolling new construction vs doing a repaint? When I am cutting in remodeled condos in Chicago, I have to be extremely careful with my line as any little imperfection stands out far more than it would on a repaint. Luckily, I paint by the hour on these condo remodels.

futtyos


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## loaded brush (Dec 27, 2007)

futtyos said:


> lb, you might want to give Rembrandt oval sash brushes a try and see if they compare favorably with Picasso:
> 
> http://www.uspaintsupply.com/paint/brushes/rembrandt-oval-angular-sash-brush-3/
> 
> futtyos


My paint store carries both brands, but I find the Rembrandts to be a little too stiff right from the get go.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

futtyos said:


> I suppose the title I have might merit its own thread, but I will ask it here anyway.
> 
> Do any here have a different technique for cutting and rolling new construction vs doing a repaint? When I am cutting in remodeled condos in Chicago, I have to be extremely careful with my line as any little imperfection stands out far more than it would on a repaint. Luckily, I paint by the hour on these condo remodels.
> 
> futtyos


That doesnt make any sense. A cut in is a cut in. The only thing that makes imperfections stand out is extreme color contrast.

Obviously, if the surface already has a bunch of coats of paint on it, it will be a little easier to do, but the process is the same. Maybe thin it down a little with newer texture so it flows in the holes a better, but thats about it.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

futtyos said:


> Wb, your tale is a bit cryptic. Why didn't the GC like your way of cutting and rolling? Did the GC make any negative comments about how the finished product looked?
> 
> futtyos


Nah, he'd just never seen it done that way before and he's a little set in his ways. He was worried there'd be more brush marks, which I didn't think there was as the last coat was rolled. He just likes questioning me because we've known each other for a while and give each other the gears quite a bit.


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## allcitypaintingwi (Aug 16, 2016)

AaronKM said:


> I'm going stir crazy waiting for painting season to start, so this is how I'm getting my paint fix.
> 
> Through my small amount of experience, I've found that everyone cuts in a little differently.
> 
> ...


Flat n lo sheen you can cut the whole room without flash. satin cut a wall then roll..If you work solo and are slow as molasses add a little water to cut pot..


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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

futtyos said:


> I suppose the title I have might merit its own thread, but I will ask it here anyway.
> 
> Do any here have a different technique for cutting and rolling new construction vs doing a repaint? When I am cutting in remodeled condos in Chicago, I have to be extremely careful with my line as any little imperfection stands out far more than it would on a repaint. Luckily, I paint by the hour on these condo remodels.
> 
> futtyos


for repaints if the cut line is badly pitted and im not getting paid to re cock the sides ill true cut the line on both cuts or tape it, new construction i dont line up twice one quick cut for colour and one pass finish swipe


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## AngieM (Apr 13, 2016)

Vylum said:


> for repaints if the cut line is badly pitted and im not getting paid to re cock the sides ill true cut the line on both cuts or tape it, new construction i dont line up twice one quick cut for colour and one pass finish swipe


 How do you re cock something? I think you mean caulk, but not sure.


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## jennifertemple (Oct 30, 2011)

AaronKM said:


> I've actually been meaning to ask you guys, I painted an accent wall for my mom and she only had enough paint for one coat. My cut in left a horrible brush stroke, which I was afraid would happen. How can I fix it?


That is a silly question, You are kidding, right? The ONLY fix is a second coat! I have never met the one coat job.


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## jennifertemple (Oct 30, 2011)

I have never back rolled a cut. If I'm being really fussy I'll brush pounce the cut work but for the most part I just roll the walls as close to the inside edge of my cut as possible. I cut in all coats. I ALWAYS brush pounce around outlets and light switches, etc.


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

AngieM said:


> How do you re cock something? I think you mean caulk, but not sure.


If you've watched This Old House, Norm Abram always says we gotta cock that window, I think it's a Boston thing.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Brushman4 said:


> If you've watched This Old House, Norm Abram always says we gotta cock that window, I think it's a Boston thing.


Let’s hope that’s what he meant. On the other hand, IMO ol’ Norm has always seemed a bit hinky. :vs_whistle:


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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

brush pounce?


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

Vylum said:


> brush pounce?


Like a dab or push, jamming some paint in a crevice with a brush. Its a faux finisher word.


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## TrueColors (Jul 30, 2010)

Vylum said:


> this is a painting forum, one of the few places on the planet where we can be geeks about trade and not get weird looks. i also dont see advantage to attacking your line right away rather than priming close to your line then straightening on the second pass. the way you describe how you paint makes me skeptical of your finish


Again over analyzing. How would cutting straight on first coat affect my finish? Cutting straight first coat and filling in after or versa makes no difference.


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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

TrueColors said:


> Again over analyzing. How would cutting straight on first coat affect my finish? Cutting straight first coat and filling in after or versa makes no difference.


i already answered that and you are already convinced that technical analyses is a waste of time. i guess everyone can just paint how they want, theres no right or wrong


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Vylum said:


> i already answered that and you are already convinced that technical analyses is a waste of time. i guess everyone can just paint how they want, theres no right or wrong


Over the years that I’ve been involved with PT, I’ve come to the conclusion that when a “How do you...?” question is posed, there tend to be as many different answers as there are members. IMO, the right way is the one that works best for you.


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## AngieM (Apr 13, 2016)

Vylum said:


> i already answered that and you are already convinced that technical analyses is a waste of time. i guess everyone can just paint how they want, theres no right or wrong


Well... I can definitively say cutting around a outlet cover is wrong. Except those cable and phone outlets. Everyone cuts around those, right?


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

AngieM said:


> Well... I can definitively say cutting around a outlet cover is wrong. Except those cable and phone outlets. Everyone cuts around those, right?


Every time, but I'm always looking over my shoulder to check if anyone sees me doing it. Why do those guys use screws that are a foot long?


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

AngieM said:


> Well... I can definitively say cutting around a outlet cover is wrong. Except those cable and phone outlets. Everyone cuts around those, right?


Don’t cut around them but don’t remove them either. Just loosen enough to get them away from the wall so I can paint under them.


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## loaded brush (Dec 27, 2007)

RH said:


> Don’t cut around them but don’t remove them either. Just loosen enough to get them away from the wall so I can paint under them.


Show off.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

loaded brush said:


> Show off.


LOL... had a job a few weeks back where there were some covers under a built in desk in the kitchen. Those damn things would not come loose no matter what I did so I finally said, "Screw it!!!" and cut in around them. It was a simple one coat redo in the same color so it was not at all likely to show but still, just doing that cut in instead of removing them made me feel cheap and dirty - well, at least more so than usual.:sad:


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## jennifertemple (Oct 30, 2011)

I ALWAYS remove outlet, switch and cable covers and it does not matter how long the screws are. Light fixtures are a different story, those get loosened from the ceiling and a bag enclosure.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Something I’ve never really understood is when some painters will take all the switch plates off, then brush a two or three inch strip around every outlet anyway. As if it’s too much trouble to roll tight to an outlet or something. Same thing with can lights and bathroom fixtures. 

In my way of thinking if I’m going to put brush strokes around all of that stuff, why take it off in the first place? If I’m going to brush around it, might as well take a few extra seconds and just cut around it. Save the removal/install time. 

I do agree that it’s best practice to take that kind of stuff down and paint behind it, just don’t see the need for all the brush work. 

I’ve wondered if the tendency in our trade to worship the brush isn’t a kind of cultural left over from the days when we painted everything with brushes. My dad was a union painter when the roller first came on the scene. He told stories about how a lot of the old timers then scoffed at them. “Real painters use brushes!” ...stuff like that. 
I wonder if we don’t hold on to some of that thinking even today through the culture of the trade. Kinda explains the aversion some pros have to tape as well. 

The ability to cut in well is a primary skill in our trade, as it should be. The straitness of a line is very often the first thing people notice about a paint job. At the same time, the brush is the least efficient tool in the bag as far as transferring material to a substrate. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

One of several reasons I roll a coat before cutting. Instead of wasting time and paint cutting around outlets, you just roll, and if you dont think you rolled close enough, you just dab it with a brush. It aint rocket surgery.


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## jennifertemple (Oct 30, 2011)

Woodco said:


> One of several reasons I roll a coat before cutting. Instead of wasting time and paint cutting around outlets, you just roll, and if you dont think you rolled close enough, you just dab it with a brush. It aint rocket surgery.


That's what I do. Brush strokes around plates look pretty crummy. I still brush pounce all brush lines so all is well blended.


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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

same colour one coat rental freshin ups i dont take off switch covers


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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

Jmayspaint said:


> Something I’ve never really understood is when some painters will take all the switch plates off, then brush a two or three inch strip around every outlet anyway. As if it’s too much trouble to roll tight to an outlet or something. Same thing with can lights and bathroom fixtures.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 3 inches around a switch is over board but i like to brush a one inch swipe all around just so you can keep momentum while rolling without having to crossroll the bottom or line up the sides. also sometimes the roller will catch more dust and grime out of the hole than the brush


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

Vylum said:


> 3 inches around a switch is over board but i like to brush a one inch swipe all around just so you can keep momentum while rolling without having to crossroll the bottom or line up the sides. also sometimes the roller will catch more dust and grime out of the hole than the brush


Sometimes your best brush is the duster


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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

Gwarel said:


> Sometimes your best brush is the duster


such a pain to grab though...


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

Vylum said:


> such a pain to grab though...


I cut half the handle off so it stays in my back pocket


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Vylum said:


> 3 inches around a switch is over board but i like to brush a one inch swipe all around just so you can keep momentum while rolling without having to crossroll the bottom or line up the sides. also sometimes the roller will catch more dust and grime out of the hole than the brush




Your essentially saying you use the brush in order to avoid having to be precise with the roller correct? Not having to be so precise lets you go faster. 

Think I understand what you mean. That’s pretty much the argument I have heard from others as to the point of that practice. 

I’ve done better learning to be more precise with the roller and relegating the brush to necessity only. 

Brush skills are essential, but seems to me a lot of painters spend a lot of time playing with them when a more efficient tool is available. 

Just my opinion of course, happy brushing. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

Vylum said:


> same colour one coat rental freshin ups i dont take off switch covers


Yeah. Thats different though.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

Gwarel said:


> I cut half the handle off so it stays in my back pocket


I thought I was the only one that did that. Great minds think alike.


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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

Jmayspaint said:


> Your essentially saying you use the brush in order to avoid having to be precise with the roller correct? Not having to be so precise lets you go faster.
> 
> Think I understand what you mean. That’s pretty much the argument I have heard from others as to the point of that practice.
> 
> ...


its not about showing off how precise one is, its about practicality. just because someone chooses the brush in a certain scenario doesnt make them a brush queen. im cutting low against the base anyway and takes a quarter brush full or less. lowers the chance of hitting something and i find roller drags out more dust out the hole. im not sitting here brushing out bulkheads


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## AngieM (Apr 13, 2016)

Vylum said:


> same colour one coat rental freshin ups i dont take off switch covers


Blasphemy!  Paint will still build up around the covers. I do like RH and loosen the long screw covers to paint behind so there won't be a ridge of paint around it. It feels so icky to paint around it.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

allcitypaintingwi said:


> Flat n lo sheen you can cut the whole room without flash. satin cut a wall then roll..If you work solo and are slow as molasses add a little water to cut pot..


 Water does not extend dry time. Try Flotrol, it's designed to extend open working time.
Cutting and rolling 1 wall at a time is old school. They did that when all the paints were oil, because you had too.
In my 25 years of painting, never have I needed to cut and roll 1 wall at a time for premium results..Just saying


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## kmp (Jan 30, 2011)

I cut and roll one wall at a time a lot. When I work by myself in a small room the dry time rotation works out better, or if I don't have another room to go to. It's about timing sometimes.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

kmp said:


> I cut and roll one wall at a time a lot. When I work by myself in a small room the dry time rotation works out better, or if I don't have another room to go to. It's about timing sometimes.


Ya, I guess the exception would be a small room and you had nothing else to do in between.
The new paints just dry so quick it's an uphill battle most of the time. Plus I feather off all my cuts so cutlines are pretty much nonexistent. .


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## PaPainter724 (Apr 22, 2016)

I keep it simple. If I'm doing the ceilings, I'll pull down the light fixture or ceiling fan, use the whizz/mini roller to do the outside edges, roll the ceiling, move on the next room and repeat (I don't think I've ever done just a single room in a house) for 3-4 rooms. Get the second coat on. The for the walls, it's cut, roll, cut, roll, but I use the whizz for the corners and I backroll my very first cut to make sure the cut in has good color depth. I've run into (not often) that the cut in will look a little thin if you're painting over crappy paint or primer (I use good paint, but you can't help what they used on the previous job), so that just helps avoid it. Then finish the trim/casing. We can usually get 3-4 rooms done in a day with two guys working.


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## Painting-Stl (Mar 17, 2018)

I cut in with my brush about 2 feet at a time and go over it right away with a mini roller. Not one brush mark anywhere.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Dust and grime*



Vylum said:


> 3 inches around a switch is over board but i like to brush a one inch swipe all around just so you can keep momentum while rolling without having to crossroll the bottom or line up the sides. also sometimes the roller will catch more dust and grime out of the hole than the brush


Since I have been painting condos for a condo in downtown Chicago (at an hourly wage mind you), I have taken to vacuuming all the outlet holes because of all the powder generated by skim coat sanding. I even have used a razor tool to cut away the jagged edges of drywall in doorways to avoid picking up little schumtzes.

I think that if any here do jobs that are similar enough to other recent jobs, they will adopt methods that will prevent oopses encountered before.

futtyos


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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

Painting-Stl said:


> I cut in with my brush about 2 feet at a time and go over it right away with a mini roller. Not one brush mark anywhere.


ill start doing this when customers start complaining about brush strokes at the top of walls so far none so the whizz roller stays in the truck


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

futtyos said:


> Since I have been painting condos for a condo in downtown Chicago (at an hourly wage mind you), I have taken to vacuuming all the outlet holes because of all the powder generated by skim coat sanding. I even have used a razor tool to cut away the jagged edges of drywall in doorways to avoid picking up little schumtzes.
> 
> I think that if any here do jobs that are similar enough to other recent jobs, they will adopt methods that will prevent oopses encountered before.
> 
> futtyos


Wow, futty, you've coined two new phrases to add to the prep and paint vernacular, schumtzes and oopses! A guy named Don that I worked with years ago would describe things like that as smeegma.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

futtyos said:


> Since I have been painting condos for a condo in downtown Chicago (at an hourly wage mind you), I have taken to vacuuming all the outlet holes because of all the powder generated by skim coat sanding. I even have used a razor tool to cut away the jagged edges of drywall in doorways to avoid picking up little schumtzes.
> 
> I think that if any here do jobs that are similar enough to other recent jobs, they will adopt methods that will prevent oopses encountered before.
> 
> futtyos


 
:biggrin:


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

Brushman4 said:


> Wow, futty, you've coined two new phrases to add to the prep and paint vernacular, schumtzes and oopses! A guy named Don that I worked with years ago would describe things like that as smeegma.


You know he was referring to his VD


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*What country?*



Brushman4 said:


> Wow, futty, you've coined two new phrases to add to the prep and paint vernacular, schumtzes and oopses! A guy named Don that I worked with years ago would describe things like that as smeegma.


Brushman4, was Don Estonian? It would appear that "smeegma", at least as far as Google Translate goes, is the Estonian or Afrikaans form of what is known in the USA as "smegma." A quick Google search for "smegma" should satisfy anyone here as to what this term means.

futtyos

P.S. I peed in my pants when I read this, so thank you Brushman4 for a great end to a hard day of work!


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

MikeCalifornia said:


> You know he was referring to his VD[/QUOTE
> 
> Not VD, but dead skin cells and crud on the genital organs. https://www.healthline.com/health/smegma
> 
> If you want a more visual and graphic description do a wiki on the term. I was going to post that link but thought it might offend some of the more squeamish members!


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Brushman4 said:


> I was going to post that link but thought it might offend some of the more squeamish members!


Thank you for that. Let's keep things family friendly folks.


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Brushman4 said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you for that. Let's keep things family friendly folks.
> ...


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

MikeCalifornia said:


> Wildbill7145 said:
> 
> 
> > Hey that's not from Me?
> ...


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

MikeCalifornia said:


> Hey that's not from Me?


True enough. Quote fail on my part, but interesting how it did that.

Honestly, I think there's something wrong with the quote thing, as it did it in the post right above this one as well as yours.


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## paintguy80 (Feb 28, 2018)

AaronKM said:


> I've actually been meaning to ask you guys, I painted an accent wall for my mom and she only had enough paint for one coat. My cut in left a horrible brush stroke, which I was afraid would happen. How can I fix it?


What kind of brush did you use? And what kind of paint was it? The quality of your brush and your brush technique come into play here, unless you were just using garbage paint lol


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## paintguy80 (Feb 28, 2018)

Jmayspaint said:


> Do any of you run a base line when cutting in?
> I mean running a quick line of paint right next to the surface your about to cut to. Like 1/4 inch away or less. Then dip again and cut the line.
> The idea is that the wet base line being there keeps your brush from drying out so fast while you strike the finished line. Therefore allowing you to strike longer lines with each stroke. Generally longer = straighter. Less stops and starts.
> 
> I don’t do it all the time, but pretty often. Picked that trick up here in another cutting in thread years ago. Just curious if any other current members have tried it.


I've done that before, and it does work, but I don't consistently do it.


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## Painting-Stl (Mar 17, 2018)

When all of you say your “cutting in”, you using the accubrush right? I mean, thats what all the pros are using now arent we?


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## mackhomie (Jul 25, 2007)

Painting-Stl said:


> When all of you say your “cutting in”, you using the accubrush right? I mean, thats what all the pros are using now arent we?


It combines the speed of a roller with the accuracy of a paint brush-- dumbass.


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## mackhomie (Jul 25, 2007)

Jmayspaint said:


> Do any of you run a base line when cutting in?
> I mean running a quick line of paint right next to the surface your about to cut to. Like 1/4 inch away or less. Then dip again and cut the line.
> The idea is that the wet base line being there keeps your brush from drying out so fast while you strike the finished line. Therefore allowing you to strike longer lines with each stroke. Generally longer = straighter. Less stops and starts.
> 
> I don’t do it all the time, but pretty often. Picked that trick up here in another cutting in thread years ago. Just curious if any other current members have tried it.


****, is there another way to cut more than six inches at a time without your line peacing out along the way?
Dip brush. Gently wipe both flat sides off on rim of bucket. Using narrow side, make a pass through what will be the center of your final cut--away and back toward you. 
*DON'T* dip brush again unless absolutely necessary because of a particularly porous surface. A second dip is a terrible idea and partially negates the two brush strokes you just made which served a secondary purpose of removing the excess paint from your brush (and preventing a ridge of paint forming on your cut line).
Make cut. With the right brush and a pretty small amount of practice, you can literally do this with your eyes closed since you're not floating a line in the ether, you're allowing a thin band to be drawn on the adjacent surface. If it's consistent and small, it's cool. Wide or less than straight? Not cool. How you go about achieving this, though, depends entirely on which brush you are using. The angle, the amount of pressure, even the amount of paint you've loaded all play a part in determining exactly how you make this cut and end up with a thin straight line on the surface next door. Even the technique from one oval brush to another can vary greatly. If I cut a line with an oval alpha the same way I would with a picasso, the result is a centimeter wide band of gnarliness. 
If I were you, I would take whatever my favorite brush is, and just hold it at two 90-degree surfaces and see how you can get the bristles to splay out in such a way that they connect with the other surface the way you want. Avoiding that other surface altogether is certainly possible, but requires you to have superhuman steadiness of hand and an eye sharper than I possess. It's just phenomenally hard to get a line razor straight in mid-air. You can get close, but if you do it the other way, you literally cannot tell whether or not it was masked.
Note: apologies if you weren't asking for all that-- another dude was so I went ahead and posted. Also, this is literally the only thing I do well in terms of painting : )


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

mackhomie said:


> ****, is there another way to cut more than six inches at a time without your line peacing out along the way?
> Dip brush. Gently wipe both flat sides off on rim of bucket. Using narrow side, make a pass through what will be the center of your final cut--away and back toward you.


Lip licking is counter productive to production. You never put paint from your brush back in your bucket. Paint only makes you money when it goes on the walls. Learn to get the right amount of paint on your brush with a dip and two side taps, strike a "base line", then catch the wall ceiling interface grove and run your cut line.


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## mackhomie (Jul 25, 2007)

Lightningboy65 said:


> mackhomie said:
> 
> 
> > ****, is there another way to cut more than six inches at a time without your line peacing out along the way?
> ...


Next time you cut your line, observe that the paint on either side of your brush--the flat sides-- has remained right where it was even after you executed the cut. The only paint that gets used is the paint on the skinny sides and within the brush, making the other paint excessive and problematic. The technique you've described is good for painting siding, though, or large flat surfaces.
With a crappy brush this is not the case, but with a decent 2.5 a guy ought to be able to run a line as far as his hand can reach without the film thickness being reduced. A silver tip is more than capable, and any oval brush ought to be as well.


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

Wow, painted almost 40 years , and here I've been doing it wrong my whole career!:wink:

Remember the mark of a true professional painter is production and precision.


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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

only hacks and noobs rake the brush on the lip of the can. tap the sides like a pro


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## mackhomie (Jul 25, 2007)

Lightningboy65 said:


> Wow, painted almost 40 years , and here I've been doing it wrong my whole career!


I mean, I've got a wet brush next to me and a phone that records video. Never too late : )


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## mackhomie (Jul 25, 2007)

Vylum said:


> only hacks and noobs rake the brush on the lip of the can. tap the sides like a pro


 yeah man, that's great for most applications. It will only slow you down when cutting a line, though, because that paint never makes it to the wall it instead drips off your brush or requires you to flip your brush around wiping it constantly to prevent those trips. The guy doing the rolling doesn't need that there, because you can make a thick enough cut without it. It serves no purpose other than to slow you down. If you were standing outside on a ladder painting the side of a house, then I would agree with you wholeheartedly.
The only way you're using that paint is by using the flat side of the brush at which point you are applying paint (not cutting or feathering) and an extraneous, additional pass is necessary in order to smooth out the line you just made with your most recent application. so now you've pre cut the line, you cut the line, and at some point you've applied paint with the flat side and now you've had to smooth that out as well--almost all of which was totally unnecessary because your cut line cut should have been wide enough and thick enough to begin with, no?
IF, however, your brush is crap--specifically its capacity-- I could see some utility in loading up another side to save you from an extra dip. It's done at the expense of an added pass, though. I do about 1foot/4sec with ladder movement accounted for. It's more like 1/1.5 if ground level but with paint on the side of think 1/3 would be overly optimistic


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## mackhomie (Jul 25, 2007)

Lightningboy65 said:


> Wow, painted almost 40 years , and here I've been doing it wrong my whole career!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree


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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

mackhomie said:


> yeah man, that's great for most applications. It will only slow you down when cutting a line, though, because that paint never makes it to the wall it instead drips off your brush or requires you to flip your brush around wiping it constantly to prevent those trips. The guy doing the rolling doesn't need that there, because you can make a thick enough cut without it. It serves no purpose other than to slow you down. If you were standing outside on a ladder painting the side of a house, then I would agree with you wholeheartedly.
> The only way you're using that paint is by using the flat side of the brush at which point you are applying paint and an extraneous, additional pass is necessary in order to smooth out the line you just made with your most recent application. so now you've pre cut the line, you cut the line, and at some point you've applied paint with the flat side and now you've had to smooth that out as well--almost all of which was totally unnecessary because your cut line cut should have been wide enough and thick enough to begin with, no?


i use all of it. sounds like youre keeping too much paint in your can jr. i use a wooster 2.5 ultra firm and paint comes up a little past half way up the bristles, never more. can drag it a couple feet on sealed drywall if need be, no need for a bigger brush, cutting is all accuracy. 

i do a bit of a twist to unload the side of brush at the end of my stroke like your talking about but i need more paint to keep the line going anyway and im putting it right where i need it like i would on a regular unload but my brush is simply turned around.


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## mackhomie (Jul 25, 2007)

Vylum said:


> youre keeping too much paint in your can jr. i use a wooster 2.5 ultra firm and paint comes up a little past half way up the bristles, never more. can drag it a couple feet on sealed drywall if need be, no need for a bigger brush, cutting is all accuracy.
> 
> i do a bit of a twist to unload the side of brush at the end of my stroke like your talking about but i need more paint to keep the line going anyway and im putting it right where i need it like i would on a regular unload but my brush is simply turned around.


You may use all of it, but if you aren't making progress as quickly with that additional "stage 2" portion of the cut where you completely change your technique and swipe with the flat side for the extra cut length it provides, and then the extra pass to feather that (to say nothing of the actual cut) as you were for your large initial cut then you are slowing yourself down and it can't be the best way. Also are you really saying that you can cut in a room as fast with a 1 and 1/2 inch brush as you can with your 2 and 1/2? why not use the 1.5? I would think it would be lighter and cheaper.


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## mackhomie (Jul 25, 2007)

Vylum said:


> i use all of it. sounds like youre keeping too much paint in your can jr.


Also, I'm 31.


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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

mackhomie said:


> You may use all of it, but if you aren't making progress as quickly with that additional "stage 2" portion of the cut where you completely change your technique and swipe with the flat side for the extra cut length it provides, and then the extra pass to feather that (to say nothing of the actual cut) as you were for your large initial cut then you are slowing yourself down and it can't be the best way. Also are you really saying that you can cut in a room as fast with a 1 and 1/2 inch brush as you can with your 2 and 1/2? why not use the 1.5? I would think it would be lighter and cheaper.


im at the end of my latter anyway, i stretch as far as i can reach for max efficiency, that paint on the side gets me an extra 6 to 8 inches which is the perfect while extend to reduce latter placements. im not re dipping my brush for that, thats just silly.

i love 3 inch brushes but i paint everyday, im not lugging around and cleaning that mop everyday. i should also say im currently doing homes, if i was doing commercial id feel more inclined to lug it about. yeah, if i was racing someone id probably pick up a three but speed and accuracy wins most times


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## mackhomie (Jul 25, 2007)

Vylum said:


> mackhomie said:
> 
> 
> > You may use all of it, but if you aren't making progress as quickly with that additional "stage 2" portion of the cut where you completely change your technique and swipe with the flat side for the extra cut length it provides, and then the extra pass to feather that (to say nothing of the actual cut) as you were for your large initial cut then you are slowing yourself down and it can't be the best way. Also are you really saying that you can cut in a room as fast with a 1 and 1/2 inch brush as you can with your 2 and 1/2? why not use the 1.5? I would think it would be lighter and cheaper.
> ...


I'm not suggesting an extra dip, though. What I'm saying is why not include that 6 to 8 in with your initial swipe that covered the rest of the wall? You've made that a separate task entirely using a different portion of your brush and everything and it seems to me as if you are covering far less ground than you were with the first several feet.
And if it's because of your brush, maybe there's a case to be made for a brush with a larger capacity--at least in terms of efficiency. If it's too heavy, that's another thing.
Edit: after reading your last comment again, I can see that you aren't necessarily trying to be as efficient as possible. And that's really all I was arguing for.


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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

mackhomie said:


> I'm not suggesting an extra dip, though. What I'm saying is why not include that 6 to 8 in with your initial swipe that covered the rest of the wall? You've made that a separate task entirely using a different portion of your brush and everything and it seems to me as if you are covering far less ground than you were with the first several feet.
> And if it's because of your brush, maybe there's a case to be made for a brush with a larger capacity--at least in terms of efficiency. If it's too heavy, that's another thing.
> Edit: after reading your last comment again, I can see that you aren't necessarily trying to be as efficient as possible. And that's really all I was arguing for.


because i cant cut 8 feet at a time, need at least a dip when on a latter. cant include my whole pass off one brush stroke unless i want to use a full loaded 3 which is messy and counter productive. 

your logic is bigger the brush the better and wiping paint off the brush with the can lip is good.


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## mackhomie (Jul 25, 2007)

Vylum said:


> mackhomie said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not suggesting an extra dip, though. What I'm saying is why not include that 6 to 8 in with your initial swipe that covered the rest of the wall? You've made that a separate task entirely using a different portion of your brush and everything and it seems to me as if you are covering far less ground than you were with the first several feet.
> ...


That's my logic? My logic is that your paint brush should have paint on the areas where it is usable and since that does not include the flat side of the brush it would stand to reason that wiping that side would serve an obvious purpose. It also serves a less obvious purpose, which is forcing the paint through the brush, filling it up more than was accomplished from the dip alone. my logic would also be that ideally, you would make your entire cut with the same dip if your brush is capable of doing so. I do, at least. 
Also, by the time you get to the last 6 in of this large cut and wipe the flat side at the end of your cut line, aren't the tips dry? Do you have to use that 6 inch strip of paint to read wet your tips before going back up to finish the end of the line? My logic tells me that your logic sucks when it comes to cutting a line


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*No comment*

After reading the forgoing colloquy between Vylum and mack : ), I don't think that I am going to describe how I cut in walls at the ceiling in my last condo paint job where I averaged about 1 foot per minute. 

futtyos


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## mackhomie (Jul 25, 2007)

futtyos said:


> After reading the forgoing colloquy between Vylum and mack : ), I don't think that I am going to describe how I cut in walls at the ceiling in my last condo paint job where I averaged about 1 foot per minute.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Booooo! Get the **** outta here, sloth-balls!
*Throws tomato

Edit: LOL I just noticed the inclusion of the smiley. Well done


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## mackhomie (Jul 25, 2007)

Lightningboy65 said:


> Wow, painted almost 40 years , and here I've been doing it wrong my whole career!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree. That and discarded bottles of booze.


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

mackhomie said:


> I agree. That and discarded bottles of booze.


I'm giving you a like because I've never seen so much written about the wrong way to cut in a ceiling. :biggrin:

Lip licking is just plain wrong and could lead to the end of the painting profession if left unchecked.


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## mackhomie (Jul 25, 2007)

Lightningboy65 said:


> mackhomie said:
> 
> 
> > I agree. That and discarded bottles of booze.
> ...


Oh good, we are reviving this. I honestly don't know how you can advocate leaving paint on the sides of your brush when it is only going to require you to turn the brush in such a way that it is no longer possible to actually make the cut. All you can do at that point is unload paint from your brush onto the wall, and that is far less efficient than letting the roller do it. Your goal is to make the cut and make it sufficiently wide and suitably thick. A good brush should have the capacity to accomplish this, so paint on the flat sides is unnecessary and counterproductive because its presence now requires your time and effort to deal with it. You could be moving the ladder to your next position, but instead you are wiping the brush back and forth below the cut line just to do the job the roller is about to do -- and better than you.

Edit: I'm repeating myself ad nauseum at this point, but interestingly, nobody has addressed this convincingly. The last guy eventually said that he does it his way because carrying a bigger brush would be too heavy and that it's not a race-- after defending the tap-in-bucket technique at some length. Does someone have an actual reason that what I've said isn't correct?


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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

rotating the wrist 30 degrees doesnt take all that much time, takes less time than wiping both sides of your brush thats forsure


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

mackhomie said:


> Oh good, we are reviving this. I honestly don't know how you can advocate leaving paint on the sides of your brush when it is only going to require you to turn the brush in such a way that it is no longer possible to actually make the cut. All you can do at that point is unload paint from your brush onto the wall, and that is far less efficient than letting the roller do it. Your goal is to make the cut and make it sufficiently wide and suitably thick. A good brush should have the capacity to accomplish this, so paint on the flat sides is unnecessary and counterproductive because its presence now requires your time and effort to deal with it. You could be moving the ladder to your next position, but instead you are wiping the brush back and forth below the cut line just to do the job the roller is about to do -- and better than you.
> 
> Edit: I'm repeating myself ad nauseum at this point, but interestingly, nobody has addressed this convincingly. The last guy eventually said that he does it his way because carrying a bigger brush would be too heavy and that it's not a race-- after defending the tap-in-bucket technique at some length. Does someone have an actual reason that what I've said isn't correct?


I don't do the slap thing either. I've tried but it slows me down and like you said I feel like I just have a lot of paint on the brush where I don't need it.

Scraping the brush allows you to control just how much you have. Sometimes I'm not looking for a giant load so I'll scrape harder. If I'm going for long runs or painting a door jam I'll just scrape enough so it's not dripping wet.

I'm not saying one way is better than the other I think it comes down to how you were taught and what you're more comfortable with. There's more than one way to skin a cat in this line of work. 

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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

My reading comprehension must be slipping. I skimmed through the mackhomie/vylum debate and didn’t immediately understand that is was about tapping vs wiping. 

Ryan is right, more than one way. I was taught to tap, my dad told me not to wipe all the paint off my brush. 

As far the logic behind one way or the other, I’m sure there’s more than one way a person might reason it out. 
To me wiping the paint off the outside is similar to how some people will only dip a brush 1/3 to 1/2 way into the paint and insist on keeping paint out of the bottom half of the bristles. 

This seems analogous to holding a hammer right under the head instead of at the end of the handle. You’re not making full use of the tool. A brush is an inefficient tool for transferring material to a surface as it is. If you wipe all the paint off the outside, and/or only use half the bristles, it’s even less efficient. 

Just my take. 


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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

anecdotally the painters i see wiping their can with their brush thats fully submerged drip everywhere and slop about. they might be okay repainting crack shacks or commercial where no one really cares but these guys with wet paint over their hands get exposed repainting million dollar places. ive never witnessed a bad painter that taps efficiently while keeping their brush looking brand new after a weeks use everyday.

oh yeah i dont cut over drops most times, if they insist i pack up my tools


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## PaPainter724 (Apr 22, 2016)

I usually tap the sides but I'll also take some off if I'm doing a door frame, etc. 

However, there is a purpose to the tap method. But it's gotten a bit lost in translation these days as brushes and paints have become more varied? Have you ever cut a room in and noticed that the cut line looks significantly lighter or has more show through than your rolled area? That's because paint, especially cheaper paints now, are only meant to be cut so long, as in so many miles of thickness and we tend to drag it too far. A lot of times this happens because we're using a cheaper paint which doesn't have much hang time and wants to run or sag so we have to spread it much more thinly or because we're using a brush that doesn't hold enough but we're trying to cut a long line in one go so we spread it too thin. This is also part of the reason we get brush marks. In a perfect world you're cut in is actually going to be fairly heavy, so you need a good paint that has a lot of hang time so you can put it heavy. The other thing is most pros used to use flat sash brush for walls, so you'd lay down a line right below your cut to get some excess off, cut in then back brush both ways using both sides, hence why you tap and load both sides. I'm a little guilt of this since I prefer an angle sash but I've gotten used to back brushing with them anyways and so I'm able to keep a kind of heavier cut in.

The only reason I know this is I happened to be privy to an argument between a new home builder and a chemist who worked for PPG and BM at some point. The new home builder said PPG sucked because he had to cut it in three times to get coverage and the chemist told him that he was stretching the paint too thin and it needed to be put on heavier and that it wouldn't run. Then they got into the history of it after the chemist convinced him to try it. And I tried it and it seemed to work out just fine. 

Coincidentally, it's also how some guys, I know a certain taboo name here, get away with one coating things. They find a very heavy paint that still has good hang time and cut in super heavy and then spray.


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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

why does your cut in have to be fairly heavy if your getting good coverage? no reason to lay cut on thick unless priming new. buy better paint


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

PaPainter724 said:


> I usually tap the sides but I'll also take some off if I'm doing a door frame, etc.
> 
> However, there is a purpose to the tap method. But it's gotten a bit lost in translation these days as brushes and paints have become more varied? Have you ever cut a room in and noticed that the cut line looks significantly lighter or has more show through than your rolled area? That's because paint, especially cheaper paints now, are only meant to be cut so long, as in so many miles of thickness and we tend to drag it too far. A lot of times this happens because we're using a cheaper paint which doesn't have much hang time and wants to run or sag so we have to spread it much more thinly or because we're using a brush that doesn't hold enough but we're trying to cut a long line in one go so we spread it too thin. This is also part of the reason we get brush marks. In a perfect world you're cut in is actually going to be fairly heavy, so you need a good paint that has a lot of hang time so you can put it heavy. The other thing is most pros used to use flat sash brush for walls, so you'd lay down a line right below your cut to get some excess off, cut in then back brush both ways using both sides, hence why you tap and load both sides. I'm a little guilt of this since I prefer an angle sash but I've gotten used to back brushing with them anyways and so I'm able to keep a kind of heavier cut in.
> 
> ...




Yes, very good point. Something I have harped about since my first day on this site. 
It’s not so very impressive to cut a 6 ft line in one dip if you’ve spread the material at 2mil or less. 




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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Vylum said:


> why does your cut in have to be fairly heavy if your getting good coverage? no reason to lay cut on thick unless priming new. buy better paint




Better paint hides better at lower thicknesses. There’s also more to the performance of a product than hide. 

Aura matte might achieve complete hide at 1.5 DTF (or whatever), but you’re not going to get the maximum abrasion resistance or toughness that the product has to offer at such a puny film thickness. 


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Vylum said:


> anecdotally the painters i see wiping their can with their brush thats fully submerged drip everywhere and slop about. they might be okay repainting crack shacks or commercial where no one really cares but these guys with wet paint over their hands get exposed repainting million dollar places. ive never witnessed a bad painter that taps efficiently while keeping their brush looking brand new after a weeks use everyday.
> 
> oh yeah i dont cut over drops most times, if they insist i pack up my tools




So you’re a tapper and also a half dipper? Cool.

That’s a great trick to be able to use a brush so neatly. Totally unrelated to the effective application of architectural coatings though. 

Seems to me that drop cloths are there to facilitate effective application procedures. Not having to spend effort in policing every droplet that’s on your brush leaves more time to apply the coating correctly. 

I’d wager that for every customer that would be impressed with your ability to paint without drops, there’s one who would think your being flippant towards their property by even suggesting it. 


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Vylum said:


> oh yeah i dont cut over drops most times, if they insist i pack up my tools




That’s a little hard to believe. 

What is our job description anyway? 

Are we serving our customers by courteously applying decorative and protective coatings to the surfaces in or on their homes? 

Or are we there to do some sort of ‘don’t drop a drop’ ballet dance with semi antiquated application tools? 

The more we hang on to the idea of the sacred brush, the faster we’ll be replaced by robots. 



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## mackhomie (Jul 25, 2007)

Papainter said: Coincidentally, it's also how some guys, I know a certain taboo name here, get away with one coating things. They find a very heavy paint that still has good hang time and cut in super heavy and then spray.[/quote]

Jmays said: Yes, very good point. Something I have harped about since my first day on this site. 
It’s not so very impressive to cut a 6 ft line in one dip if you’ve spread the material at 2mil or less
[/QUOTE]

There is no need for a long cut to have a thin film unless the very limits of the brush have been exceeded. 6 ft is approaching that range for most brushes. Of course, if this was an issue, I would like to think the painter in question would either upgrade his brush or shorten his cut; but then again, they most likely have.
As far as Brian Havanas is concerned (that is who you were talking about, right? 'jack pauhl'?), he may use thick paint, but he also thins it with water so I'm not sure if it can be said that by just using the thickest paint available, he accomplishes something eyebrow-raising.
On a different note, I feel like I ought to mention that when I use the term 'wiping' re: the flat sides of the brush, I am generally talking about a wipe that is done with the brushes own weight and gravity as opposed to applied pressure. Very short cuts would, of course, be an exception to this.
Also, I could not agree more about the drop cloth issue. It's there so that you don't have to regulate yourself significantly just to ensure that not one drop goes astray. Irregular surfaces, water in the brush, or the ever-popular "spastic retard jerk" are all good ways to fling a drop somewhere unintended, but preventing them in any kind of foolproof way would kill anyone's efficiency.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

I think part of tap theory is that it helps load material inside the bristles. The force of tapping a fully loaded brush on the inside of the can, pushes paint between the bristles helping load the interior of the brush more thoroughly. 

I’m sure that could be accomplished in other ways. Maybe swirling the brush in material, or squishing it on the bottom of the can. 

I’ll usually do two or three dip and taps before starting out to load the bristles. And I do wipe occasionally of course. 


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## Fman (Aug 20, 2011)

DUSTERS! I don't respect a painter who won't carry one. I've even had good friends who didn't. They'd ask to borrow mine. I'd ask why they didn't have one of their own. "Because I don't need one..." Then you don't need mine! Worse, some guys would say they didn't have one because *I* had one. Same with 5 in ones for the same guys. You always hope they'll quit because they never seem to get fired. :vs_mad:


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## Eagle Cap Painter (Nov 14, 2016)

Sometimes you just don't want a fully loaded brush, but I'd definitely laugh at someone who's scraping the rim after every dip.


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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

Jmayspaint said:


> That’s a little hard to believe.
> 
> What is our job description anyway?
> 
> ...


brush work is and will always be painting. if you have a talented cutter on your crew good thing happen and you roll in money


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## mackhomie (Jul 25, 2007)

Eagle Cap Painter said:


> Sometimes you just don't want a fully loaded brush, but I'd definitely laugh at someone who's scraping the rim after every dip.


They probably won't mind, being that they've likely moved on to the next room. Honestly, do some of you guys think that people who use the rim do it because the don't know any better? Like they haven't heard a million times from every painter (who means well but doesn't know any better) and wannabe guru that you should tap the brush like a pro? Free tip: this is the time (one of several) that calls for using the rim.

Obviously nobody is wiping any paint off the sides of the brush when they're painting siding or a large surface.
Cutting in the four corners of a room? Obviously tap. The more paint the better. put any thought into this and fact that it (tapping) is a hindrance for this specific task is crystal clear. If you had, to would have come to the exact same conclusions as the people who already corrected their technique to suit the goal. 
Not only that, but if a guy has to cling to an old, outdated technique under the guise of film thickness, they should at least acknowledge that using a roller would be faster for accomplishing that. Because at this point, what we are talking about is putting large amounts of paint at the top of a wall and BEYOND the 6 or so inches achieved during the cut. Who requires a whole foot cut-in in order to roll? Where are these people?


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## mackhomie (Jul 25, 2007)

Jmayspaint said:


> I think part of tap theory is that it helps load material inside the bristles. The force of tapping a fully loaded brush on the inside of the can, pushes paint between the bristles helping load the interior of the brush more thoroughly.
> 
> I’m sure that could be accomplished in other ways. Maybe swirling the brush in material, or squishing it on the bottom of the can.
> 
> ...


 it's essentially the same action on the brush as wiping on the rim. It's sideways pressure on the flat side, more uniformly coating everything that gets squished into contact with wet paint. The effect on the inside* of the brush is similar, I would imagine


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## mackhomie (Jul 25, 2007)

Haha, have you ever loaded a brush by squishing it down on the bottom hard and looking for that big hole to open up in the bristles and submerge it before de-squishing? Makes that awful swampy slurping sound and absolutely blows up like a balloon. Makes a big old mess of the brush, but might be worth utilizing anyway to load it. Kinda rough on it too, though


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## allcitypaintingwi (Aug 16, 2016)

Woodco said:


> I still dont understand why anyone would do their cut ins before the first coat is rolled. You end up wasting a TON of time, AND you end up with a lapped area that essentially has four coats of paint. Usually not a problem, but I've seen it turn into one. Thats one of the first things I make clear to my guys: Roll, cut, cut, then roll again. It also gets the paint drying quicker.
> 
> Anyway, my cut in technique is to swipe the majority of the paint about a half inch under the corner, then almost dry-cut a line in the corner as perfect as possible, then gather some of the paint from under the corner to fill it in. Second coat goes much faster.
> 
> Sometimes, If its really high up, and the color change isnt to drastic, I will very quickly dry brush everything I can reach getting about 1/4" from the corner. Then I start my cut in process. If you're lucky, the dry brushed part tacks up almost immediately, and when you do your good coat, it will cover as if its a second coat. I do this with facia's too sometimes.


Cut a wall roll a wall. I'll cut with a 3 1/2 sash or a 4 inch slapper left or right hand doesn't matter... One coat pro ..lol


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

allcitypaintingwi said:


> Cut a wall roll a wall. I'll cut with a 3 1/2 sash or a 4 inch slapper left or right hand doesn't matter... One coat pro ..lol


Waste some time and paint. Waste more time and paint. One coat pro??? Hack.


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## mackhomie (Jul 25, 2007)

Woodco said:


> allcitypaintingwi said:
> 
> 
> > Cut a wall roll a wall. I'll cut with a 3 1/2 sash or a 4 inch slapper left or right hand doesn't matter... One coat pro ..lol
> ...


We are 15 pages into the debate on the nuances of cutting a line and that was seriously his contribution.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

You do know you’ve been doing this work awhile when you can cut as well left handed as right (or vice versa).


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## Fman (Aug 20, 2011)

RH said:


> You do know you’ve been doing this work awhile when you can cut as well left handed as right (or vice versa).


Though right-handed, many people have seen me using my left and remarked that they admired my skill and thought I was a southpaw. I guess that's one of those "left-handed compliments"?


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## PaPainter724 (Apr 22, 2016)

RH said:


> You do know you’ve been doing this work awhile when you can cut as well left handed as right (or vice versa).


I think for most people if they can cut at all with either hand it's usually a sign they've been at it awhile, lol. I can't speak for other areas but even in Pittsburgh and Philly I see several million dollar homes with terrible cut ins. Brand New restaurants, hotels, etc.


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

Jmayspaint said:


> I think part of tap theory is that it helps load material inside the bristles.


Tap theory.......I believe that is what Einstein was working on when he died.:glasses:


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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

someone call the idaho painter so we can settle this


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Tap*



Lightningboy65 said:


> Tap theory.......I believe that is what Einstein was working on when he died.:glasses:


Theory about painting?

futtyos


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

futtyos said:


> Theory about painting?
> 
> futtyos


Yes, it is a little known fact that much of Einstein's work in his twilight years was devoted to proving the tenets of Tap Theory.


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## AngieM (Apr 13, 2016)

Vylum said:


> someone call the idaho painter so we can settle this


I have some Idaho painter merch on order. Can't wait to sport my paint life Ť shirt on Instagram.


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## mackhomie (Jul 25, 2007)

AngieM said:


> Vylum said:
> 
> 
> > someone call the idaho painter so we can settle this
> ...


 you don't happen to know if he sells a gold grill with that, do you?


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## Holdenholden (Feb 6, 2018)

Can cut with either hand but best with my right. What’s that called?? Ambidextrous?!


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