# Cutting Help Needed



## JeffG (Jul 29, 2008)

Hello friends,

I hope this is the right place for this post, if not, sorry, it's my first time here.

I have painted interior homes in the past and have had no issues cutting in before rolling. But as of late, I got back into painting as a part-time thing to help a family member who aquired some apartment buildings. 

Here is the problem; I cut one room at a time using a $8.00 2" brush. After cutting and then proceeding to the rolling, once the room dries, you can clearly see a difference in the cut area and the rolled area. Meaning, the cut area is much lighter and then if I try and touch it up, it gets worse in the color difference. 

We use a good quality Dutch Boy or Behr, and I get the same results. Ok, I know maybe we need to try a different brush, done that, 3 as a matter of fact, and the same with rollers, 3 different rollers, same results. 

If you can offer some helpful techniques on cutting, i would be very grateful as we have 24 more units to prepare.

Thank you,

Jeff G


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## slickshift (Apr 8, 2007)

JeffG said:


> ...I cut one room at a time using a $8.00 2" brush.
> ...
> We use a good quality Dutch Boy or Behr, and I get the same results.


#1
You cut and roll 1 _wall_ at a time
This keeps a wet edge and allows the cut lines to blend into the roll

#2
An $8 brush is not a quality brush
A premium line Wooster, Purdy, or Corona, will help
They will list closer to $20

#3
I suspect your roller sleeves are also not up to snuff from the other information you have given us
Try some nice Purdy White Doves (which I know you can get) or some premium Wooster sleeves
These will list between $4 and $5

#4
DB and B are not quality paints
You can minimize the effects buy switching your technique and using quality tools, but you are still just putting lipstick on some pigs
They are still pigs
Using a higher quality paint will raise you material costs slightly, but will speed up production and increase quality dramatically


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## AuntieJan (Feb 6, 2008)

I can't add much to Slick's post because I agree with everything he said. The only thing I would suggest is to cut with a bigger brush... I use a 2" only for trim. My hand is smaller so I use a 3" Purdy to cut walls and ceilings with but I've noticed a lot of guys cut with a 4".

And yes, please get a Purdy or a Wooster, you will be amazed at the difference. If you take proper care of them they last a very long time.:yes:


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## JeffG (Jul 29, 2008)

Thank you all very much. I appreciate it. I will try your techniques and see what I can do. 

Yes I do have a lot of work left to do, and to do it fast and good is better than doing it fast and over and over and did I say over? 

Also, is it better to have an angled brush if I am painting the wall a different color than the ceiling? That is normally what I used and an edger.

Jeff G


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## tsunamicontract (May 3, 2008)

Jeff, try BM's aura paint. I think I can safely say it never pictureframes like you described.


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## AuntieJan (Feb 6, 2008)

JeffG said:


> Also, is it better to have an angled brush if I am painting the wall a different color than the ceiling? That is normally what I used and an edger.
> 
> Jeff G


I think that's a matter of personal preference, I use a flat brush for most work. I keep a damp rag and my 5 way handy to wisk away any ceiling mistakes. Not that ARE any...:whistling2:


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## JeffG (Jul 29, 2008)

Thanks everyone!!

I came to the right place for sure. You all have been very helpful. 

Jeff G


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## greensboro84 (Feb 15, 2008)

I actually find it easier to cut a straight line with a flatbrush. It's just whatever feels best to you.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

tsunamicontract said:


> Jeff, try BM's aura paint. I think I can safely say it never pictureframes like you described.


I do not think its cost effective to use Aura on apartments :whistling2:


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## Pete's Painting (Mar 5, 2008)

Jeff, 
Aura is a great paint, but you may find it a bit pricey. Afterall these are apartment buildings. Ben Moore's Regal line is a good quality paint, less expensive, and it washes well.


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

MAK-Deco said:


> I do not think its cost effective to use Aura on apartments :whistling2:


Agreed and I do see Tsun's point. A better quality paint would put you in a better position. Apartments... hmmmm Try ProMar 400 or any of the Contractor series at Sherwin Williams. Basically, most Paint only suppliers will give you better quality than Home Depot or Lowes can offer. Look for something in the $15-$20 per gal range. If you hit the right store and purchase enough paint over time, they will bring your price down. 

I prefer the sash (angle) brush for cutting and a 2 1/2" is comfortable enough for my flavor. Been using Purdy for some time and it works well for me. But I am sure if you look around this site long enough you can find related topics as to what strokes different folks concerning brushes and rollers etc.....


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Maybe I missed it and it's already said, but you don't normally build as heavy a paint film with a brush as a roller. So cut in twice. We don't do a "wall at a time" either. (personal preference) Cut in the whole room twice, (especially on a color change) then roll it. You should be selling and charging for a two-coat paint job anyhow. That way you deliver the most consistant results.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

We use a good quality Dutch Boy or Behr, 

Neither one is "good quality", get some better paint.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

You shouldn't have to cut and roll one wall at a time when using flat finish.

Don't stretch your cut in too far. Second coat it if need be.


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## JeffG (Jul 29, 2008)

Thanks again everyone. And thank you Bikerboy, I am actually selling a two-coat job because well, most of these apartments have a heavy smoke build-up in them from years of smokers and according to the old property manager, they have not been repainted in 8 years or more. 

I do have my work "cut" out for me, no pun intended, Lol.

I am going to try and get a better grade of paint and brush and rollers. Will let you all know how it goes. I am hoping to find myself with a much better paint job than the last one. A good coat of prime and a good coat of paint should do it.

Thank you all

Jeff G


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## xr4ticrew (Nov 24, 2007)

Another thing that should be mentioned is, make sure you are shaking or stirring your paint consistently, and if using multiple gallons, box them together before starting...

Could be that some tint is separating, and your cut paint is a slightly different color from your rolling paint.

Just to add to all the above suggestions, which are excellent.


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## stansoph (Dec 16, 2007)

You should also tint your primer to about half of the paint; easier to coverthe paint coat.


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## Pete's Painting (Mar 5, 2008)

JeffG said:


> Thanks again everyone. And thank you Bikerboy, I am actually selling a two-coat job because well, most of these apartments have a heavy smoke build-up in them from years of smokers and according to the old property manager, they have not been repainted in 8 years or more.
> 
> I do have my work "cut" out for me, no pun intended, Lol.
> 
> ...


Hey Jeff,

One more thing before you get too overwhelmed with information. You mentioned heavy smokers. Sometimes when the tobaccy stains get real thick, they will bleed through like a water stain. If you haven't been using an oil primer, keep an eye and switch. Kilz is not a good primer. I use Zinsser for stains and I think most people here prefer it also.


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## greensboro84 (Feb 15, 2008)

I've seen many walls cut in, then rolled later on, well after the cut was dry and look fine, for apartments that is. Mostly in white, though, I can see how it would make a big difference if you were using a color though. And I second that, about the paint separating. Make sure you stir every once in a while, especially if it's hot or cold, anything other than room temperature. It won't look right if your only painting with some of the chemicals in the bucket and the rest is settling to the bottom. And use a good paint. We usually use Duron Pro Kote for walls and trim in apartments. Good paint, good price. Ultra Deluxe and Signature are even better, but a bit more expensive, but not Sherwin or Ben Moore expensive. We use Duron Weathershield for any exterior. They have some good oil based stuff to, all moderately priced in my opinion(but not according to my boss!). Just telling you all this because were pretty much in the same line of work, you want to do the best job you can. But you know it wont last and you know you'll be in there a year later repainting, so...apartments are great for learning, training and testing new systems, I think. Also, stay competitive, it's easy to cut your own throat when bidding on work from property managers.


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## paint_booger (Jul 1, 2007)

SLICK, AWESOME POST! 

Also try CHB from Sherwin ... it's a dead flat.

pb


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## patriotpainter (Jul 31, 2008)

JeffG said:


> Hello friends,
> 
> I hope this is the right place for this post, if not, sorry, it's my first time here.
> 
> ...


 
You just need 2 coats and all will be good, Box all your paint together.
Behr and Dutchboy are OK paints, Behr is rated #1 year after year, when some one says its not premium, their ignorant. The problem is you get Behr at Home Depot and Dutch Boy at Walmart or Menards. This means the paint was mixed by a *retard* that barely has enough brain power to remember how to breath and 2 months ago they were flipping hamburgers for a living. Mix all your paint together to insure you getting consistant color. 

when you cut in and let that cut in dry, then you roll the walls, when the roller overlaps the cut in you now have 2 coats just at the overlap and the rest of the wall has 1 coat. this will look different on the walls. 2 coats will fill in the weak areas. When the walls are rolled once and then you touch up a wall, the area you touched up now has 2 coats and it will look different. you will have less problems with Flat paint, hopefully youre not putting satin in a apartment. Cheap brushes and rollers make you work harder, i think you figured this out the hard way.


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## patriotpainter (Jul 31, 2008)

Pro Mar 400 is Premium???, on what planet!!!!!


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

patriotpainter said:


> You just need 2 coats and all will be good, Box all your paint together.
> Behr and Dutchboy are OK paints, Behr is rated #1 year after year, when some one says its not premium, their ignorant.



Do you really believe that "consumer" reports is credible?? do a search on here about that and Behr... Behr is not a premium paint. Dutch Boy?? c'mon that is a DIY'er paint, sold only at places where DIY'ers are buying paint...


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## Pete's Painting (Mar 5, 2008)

Did an estimate 2 days ago. Was wondering why the painting wasn't finished. Turns out the painter walked cuz the HO insisted he use Behr and Olympic paint after reading their review in consumer reports. The HO blamed the painter for the streaks etc. 
What's the point of doing the less than fun prep work, if you're gonna smear crap all over it?


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## mikepaintbrush (Jul 30, 2008)

MAK-Deco said:


> Do you really believe that "consumer" reports is credible?? do a search on here about that and Behr... Behr is not a premium paint. Dutch Boy?? c'mon that is a DIY'er paint, sold only at places where DIY'ers are buying paint...


I'm new to this site but Dutch Boy is owned and made by S.W. and from what iv'e seen on this site most of the people on here think S.W. is great!
and Consumer Reports is not credible when you rank low but if you rank high they amazingly become credible again, its amazing.

I personally don't like Behr paint because it is "stringy" hard to work with, shows brush marks to easily but they would have to be considered a premium paint, it costs 25$ a gallon.

Hey PatriotPainter, I love the description of Home Depot employee, you are right on!!!:thumbsup:


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Somebody recently posted a link to an article about "Paint Tests". In the tests, they automatically remove any paint reformulated in the last 6 months. Since the big giuys are constantly improving (their words) their products, some paint that people here think are great are left out.
You also have to remember that consumer reports is not staffed by professional painters. That price also has an affect on the ratings (low price helps). What they choose as a best product is a combination of things that most pro's may not care about, and to be honest, thing that may not make it the best performing paint. Aura would be a good example. They did not test it. (new) It is hard for some to use and it is expensive. Yet almost every pro that uses it admits it is a great product.
So join me in flipping the bird to "Consumer Report's" paint testing. It has little bearing on what is best.


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## patriotpainter (Jul 31, 2008)

bikerboy said:


> Somebody recently posted a link to an article about "Paint Tests". In the tests, they automatically remove any paint reformulated in the last 6 months. Since the big giuys are constantly improving (their words) their products, some paint that people here think are great are left out.
> You also have to remember that consumer reports is not staffed by professional painters. That price also has an affect on the ratings (low price helps). What they choose as a best product is a combination of things that most pro's may not care about, and to be honest, thing that may not make it the best performing paint. Aura would be a good example. They did not test it. (new) It is hard for some to use and it is expensive. Yet almost every pro that uses it admits it is a great product.
> So join me in flipping the bird to "Consumer Report's" paint testing. It has little bearing on what is best.


They are not perfect but i respect them trying to be fair when they test. Your right Aura will probably never rank number 1 because of the price. They say why buy a great product for 40$ when you can get a great product for 30$ somewhere else, if the testing is tied, they give it to the cheaper product. 
Again I bet if your favorite product rated number one, you would tell your customers everytime you bid a job, copies of Consumer reports pages would magically appear in your bids!
Don't totally blow off consumer reports, they are the only ones testing paint and they help us make desicions, like when S.W. DURATION ranks dead last for the last 2 years, A SMART painter would find another 35$ paint to use.


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## tsunamicontract (May 3, 2008)

mikepaintbrushheaven said:


> I'm new to this site but Dutch Boy is owned and made by S.W. and from what iv'e seen on this site most of the people on here think S.W. is great!
> 
> No, most here do not thing SW is great. We think it is good enough and they provide more services and have more types of coatings than most paint stores.
> 
> ...


CR is fine for cars and garbage bags and cell phone plans but paint, not really.


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## IHATE_HOMEDEPOT (May 27, 2008)

*Touch and go!!*



patriotpainter said:


> When the walls are rolled once and then you touch up a wall, the area you touched up now has 2 coats and it will look different.


This is off topic but...Q. How do you know when you have appropriate coverage? Ans: When you can effectively touch up. That is the color does not change (go darker,lighter).


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## patriotpainter (Jul 31, 2008)

IHATE_HOMEDEPOT said:


> This is off topic but...Q. How do you know when you have appropriate coverage? Ans: When you can effectively touch up. That is the color does not change (go darker,lighter).


Amen, and Lowes Sucks also


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## patriotpainter (Jul 31, 2008)

tsunamicontract said:


> CR is fine for cars and garbage bags and cell phone plans but paint, not really.


So they get together in a room and say let'e do awesome tests on everything but lets blow of paint?? ya I also heard consumer reports has a secret room where they kidnap painters and kill them to make ink for the paint test reports.

about 5 years ago a customer asked me to use MAB Seashore exterior because it was rated #1 in consumer reports. So I bought it and loved it and the house still looks great today. I used Seashore many times after that and had great success, if itwasn't for C.R. I would never have used it.


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## patriotpainter (Jul 31, 2008)

Pete's Painting said:


> Did an estimate 2 days ago. Was wondering why the painting wasn't finished. Turns out the painter walked cuz the HO insisted he use Behr and Olympic paint after reading their review in consumer reports. The HO blamed the painter for the streaks etc.
> What's the point of doing the less than fun prep work, if you're gonna smear crap all over it?


Olympic Ext stains are great, i have never had a issue, but that Zero VOC crap Olympic sales at Lowes is a waste, never use it. I could crap better paint.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

patriotpainter said:


> So they get together in a room and say let'e do awesome tests on everything but lets blow of paint?? ya I also heard consumer reports has a secret room where they kidnap painters and kill them to make ink for the paint test reports.
> 
> about 5 years ago a customer asked me to use MAB Seashore exterior because it was rated #1 in consumer reports. So I bought it and loved it and the house still looks great today. I used Seashore many times after that and had great success, if itwasn't for C.R. I would never have used it.


I don't think anybody here beleives that CR's reports are worthless, at least I don't, but they are a guideline for one whom may not have the vast amount of experiance of members here. Or as you have first hand knowledge of, opening our minds to new products.

Who do you think has more "real world" experiance in paints. You and me or a guy in a white lab coat trying to simulate the conditions we encounter every day. When "ease of use" is used as a criteria, is that really valid for a "Pro" painter? 

Finally, since most mfg's constanly copy the positive attributes of each other's top of the line paints (budget Aura in 2 years), improve their own line, hire chemists away from each other, try to satisfy the "Pro", while building and maintaining a reputation of "trust and quality", leads one to beleive that all if not most, top of the line paints are decent products. They may not look, apply, smell the same, but the longevity is likely close or similar (Help...Wolvie?). 

The house you painted with MAB still looks good. But was it solely the paint you applied, or a combination of the paint and proper preparation? Could you repeat that with another quality product? I'd bet you could.


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## tsunamicontract (May 3, 2008)

bikerboy said:


> I don't think anybody here beleives that CR's reports are worthless, at least I don't, but they are a guideline for one whom may not have the vast amount of experiance of members here. Or as you have first hand knowledge of, opening our minds to new products.
> 
> Who do you think has more "real world" experiance in paints. You and me or a guy in a white lab coat trying to simulate the conditions we encounter every day. When "ease of use" is used as a criteria, is that really valid for a "Pro" painter?
> 
> ...


Exactly.


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## patriotpainter (Jul 31, 2008)

bikerboy said:


> I don't think anybody here beleives that CR's reports are worthless, at least I don't, but they are a guideline for one whom may not have the vast amount of experiance of members here. Or as you have first hand knowledge of, opening our minds to new products.
> 
> Who do you think has more "real world" experiance in paints. You and me or a guy in a white lab coat trying to simulate the conditions we encounter every day. When "ease of use" is used as a criteria, is that really valid for a "Pro" painter?
> 
> ...


You are right, as long as you get any companies best paint the job should last. Everyones top of the line is about the same with minor differences. This is why I was shocked when S.W. Duartion, their best paint rankes last 2 years in a row, How can this be?? Other brands that S.W. owns even ranked higher than Duration?????? Thanks for the insight BikerBoy, you are one of the many reasons why this site is great for Pros like us to pick each others brains for more information.


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