# BIN shellac primer smell does not vanish with time



## junkkirkland (Oct 19, 2016)

I used bin shellac primer to seal the cigarette smell in the dry wall. I applied two layers of the primer at around 55 f to 60 f. The next day, I applied top paint which is Benjamin Moore regal select. However I found the smell from the BIN primer does not reduce over time. Now I have complaining customers. What should I do now? Will the smell go away eventually after they turn on heat in the house?


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

It does take a while sometimes. The more area and more coats make it stronger, of course.
Hopefully it had enough time and cross ventilation so the bin could dry well and gas out. I don't think you can do much now other than ask them to get fresh air through the house for a while.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

junkkirkland said:


> I used bin shellac primer to seal the cigarette smell in the dry wall. I applied two layers of the primer at around 55 f to 60 f. The next day, I applied top paint which is Benjamin Moore regal select. However I found the smell from the BIN primer does not reduce over time. Now I have complaining customers. What should I do now? Will the smell go away eventually after they turn on heat in the house?


WHY???:blink:


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## junkkirkland (Oct 19, 2016)

chrisn said:


> WHY???:blink:


Just on the safe side that the nicotine Oder gets sealed in.


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## junkkirkland (Oct 19, 2016)

Yeah.. the problem is that BIN has a milky smell. It smells different from low voc paint. The customer does not like it. I used Kilz max for other rooms. They smell too, but it is the regular water based paint smell that most people are used too.


ridesarize said:


> It does take a while sometimes. The more area and more coats make it stronger, of course.
> Hopefully it had enough time and cross ventilation so the bin could dry well and gas out. I don't think you can do much now other than ask them to get fresh air through the house for a while.


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## junkkirkland (Oct 19, 2016)

Never thought that the low temperature in Oct makes things different



chrisn said:


> WHY???:blink:


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## junkkirkland (Oct 19, 2016)

Anyone has some experience on this?



junkkirkland said:


> I used bin shellac primer to seal the cigarette smell in the dry wall. I applied two layers of the primer at around 55 f to 60 f. The next day, I applied top paint which is Benjamin Moore regal select. However I found the smell from the BIN primer does not reduce over time. Now I have complaining customers. What should I do now? Will the smell go away eventually after they turn on heat in the house?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

junkkirkland said:


> Anyone has some experience on this?


Pigmented shellac is not designed for thick film build. You likely put it on too thick, not allowing for proper evaporation of solvents. Particular important when applying two coats of it.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Like Ridearise said, ventilate. I've never had this problem as I find the smell dissipates relatively quickly being that BIN is DA based. Now Coverstain seriously lingers. For days.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Like Ridearise said, ventilate. I've never had this problem as I find the smell dissipates relatively quickly being that BIN is DA based. Now Coverstain seriously lingers. For days.


I've never had odor problems with BIN PS once it dries. Some painters think that more BIN is better than less. Not true. Shellac is not very flexible, so the thicker it is, the more brittle it becomes. BIN is merely a thin build Bonding coat. The OP should take a peek at the BIN TDS.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Bin smells a lot like corn mash. I like it. Reminds me of my kinfolk down in Eastern Tennessee. Ah, holiday memories.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

does it smell better than the nicotine? And yes have them turn the heat on. It will likely help things to cure a bit quicker which should help some...


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

When I started painting I used to like the smell of both Coverstain and BIN. 14yrs later... I'm kind of over the liking it part. Even the weird fishy smell of the odourless Zinsser is a turnoff at this point.


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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

the stuff almost melted my nose off last time i used it


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## NACE (May 16, 2008)

I'll get a little technical here. Shellac is a thermo plastic coating. Essentially it forms a film by solvent evaporation which is alcohol, and forms a monolithic film. It does not form pinholes in the film like oils and acrylics. That's why it is an effective barrier to control odor especially nicotine. Thermoplastic coatings are dissolvable in their own solvent. Shellac can be re-wet by wiping alcohol on the surface. Thermosetting coatings cannot be re-dissolved in their own Solvent. Unless the system is exposed to a high pH and is not PH tolerable The spelling is incorrect because I'm using Siri. However what happens sometimes is when a primer is applied to a drywall surface the solvents can release odors that are embedded in the drywall. In the case of shellac once the solvent has evaporated the film is inert monolithic and completely sealed. What may have happened is the alcohol in the shellac has softened the nicotine and is creating a lingering odor. Or the system was supplied too thick and the solvent is unable to escape completely. You may be able to allow the residual solvents to escape by wiping with denatured alcohol. As a general rule of thumb if there is a nicotine contamination that is severe it is best to hand wash with trisodium phosphate and rinse with clean water and then apply the shellac. Paint odors are a challenging complaint for homeowners because everyone has a different sensitivity to odor. They may be used to the odors in the house and now you have changed the environment and acclamation. Any residual odor is not harmful and sometimes boxes of baking soda will absorb air born odors. Trisodium phosphate is an excellent cleaner however it leaves a slimy residue if not rinsed thoroughly and can compromise adhesion.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Wildbill7145 said:


> When I started painting I used to like the smell of both Coverstain and BIN. 14yrs later... I'm kind of over the liking it part. Even the weird fishy smell of the odourless Zinsser is a turnoff at this point.


You failed my drug test. anyone that likes the smell of lacquer/coverstain/etc and especially if they come t about getting a buzz from it in a positive way fail the test:jester:


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## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

I sprayed some t&g boards last week with bin for an install. The cut offs i threw in my garage still have that sweet alcohol/long night of drinking essence about them today. 

I don't mind the smell but could see it being any issue if that sloppy wine night scent brings back memories for some people. :whistling2:

Why did you use two different products on the same job for the same issue?


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Window fan*



junkkirkland said:


> I used bin shellac primer to seal the cigarette smell in the dry wall. I applied two layers of the primer at around 55 f to 60 f. The next day, I applied top paint which is Benjamin Moore regal select. However I found the smell from the BIN primer does not reduce over time. Now I have complaining customers. What should I do now? Will the smell go away eventually after they turn on heat in the house?


I did a nicotine seal job last June. I washed everything first with chemicals designed to remove odors. Lilpaintchic told me that the nicotine smell will eventually come back. That may be the case, but I will probably not find out from that job. After cleaning we applied 2 coats of Kilz Max. I put a powerful fan in a window to either blow air out or suck it in depending on where I wanted the fumes from the KM to go as well as to help dry the primer faster.

Hands down, if I were applying BIN I would use a window fan if at all possible and make sure that the BIN got thoroughly dried before I either recoated it or painted over it. Oh, and did I forget to mention that a window fan can move the drying denatured alcohol in a direction away from your nose? I am a big fan of fans!

futtyos


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

I've never had the issue the OP is describing. But then I never, even in the worst of smoke saturated houses, felt the need, or urge, to apply more than one coat of BIN.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

RH said:


> I've never had the issue the OP is describing. But then I never, even in the worst of smoke saturated houses, felt the need, or urge, to apply more than one coat of BIN.


Its so easy to over build BIN with an airless, because it can look sort of transparent even though it may be already at 3-4 mils WFT.


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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

RH said:


> I've never had the issue the OP is describing. But then I never, even in the worst of smoke saturated houses, felt the need, or urge, to apply more than one coat of BIN.


is that right? ive shellaced everything i could see and still tell there was cig smoke smell.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Vylum said:


> is that right? ive shellaced everything i could see and still tell there was cig smoke smell.


It was probably coming from the carpets and the lazy boy.


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## bobross (Jun 27, 2016)

People always forget to have the ducts cleaned thats where the majority of the smell comes from.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Don't forget the wood cabinets, doors, trim, and windows that haven't been cleaned but show actual runs of nicotine stains going down them.


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## ParamountPaint (Aug 25, 2016)

1 coat BIN will solve all nicotine problems...on the surface you apply it to.


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## junkkirkland (Oct 19, 2016)

Because only one room has been affected by nicotine. Others are not. Just to save a few bucks.



sayn3ver said:


> I sprayed some t&g boards last week with bin for an install. The cut offs i threw in my garage still have that sweet alcohol/long night of drinking essence about them today.
> 
> I don't mind the smell but could see it being any issue if that sloppy wine night scent brings back memories for some people. :whistling2:
> 
> Why did you use two different products on the same job for the same issue?


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

junkkirkland said:


> Because only one room has been affected by nicotine. Others are not. Just to save a few bucks.


When doing a house or apartment where any smoking was done it's been my experience that the smell will permeate every space. The visible staining may be more confined to a given room or area but the odor will be everywhere so you pretty much need to treat the entire place. Not having done so is likely why you still detect an odor.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

RH said:


> When doing a house or apartment where any smoking was done it's been my experience that the smell will permeate every space. The visible staining may be more confined to a given room or area but the odor will be everywhere so you pretty much need to treat the entire place. Not having done so is likely why you still detect an odor.


I think it's the odour from the BIN that's remaining.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Wildbill7145 said:


> I think it's the odour from the BIN that's remaining.


Ahhh... you're right. Forgot this was about the BIN odor and not lingering smoke smells. usually it is the other way around.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

RH said:


> Ahhh... you're right. Forgot this was about the BIN odor and not lingering smoke smells. usually it is the other way around.



Yep. Anyone ever gone through a ride check (DUI check, not sure what you guys call them down there.) when your van smells like BIN? Cops smell the DA, look in the back and see you're a painter, draw assumptions... "Sir, can you step out of your vehicle. We're gonna need a breath sample."


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## AngieM (Apr 13, 2016)

Back when I was managing employees, I had to give our guy a ride home because he couldn't get his car started with the attached breathalyzer machine. He was wearing a mask all day, but the bin burns through the cartridges fast.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

AngieM said:


> Back when I was managing employees, I had to give our guy a ride home because he couldn't get his car started with the attached breathalyzer machine. He was wearing a mask all day, but the bin burns through the cartridges fast.


I think I know WHAT it is but WHY is it attached to the car? Too many DUI's?


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## AngieM (Apr 13, 2016)

Exactly. It's a breathalyzer machine connected to your ignition that you have to blow in before the car will start. Then you have to blow in it every so often while you're driving so your buddy can't get your car started for you if you're drinking. . It's a way to get driving privileges while your license is revoked.

We had a guy on parole for 4 OWIs! He used to start his car by blowing through a long hose hooked to the machine when he was drinking. Cream of the crop people we had.


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