# Sherwin Williams High Build Primer application



## grayscale (May 9, 2018)

Does anyone have experience with Sherwin Williams high build interior latex primer (B28W08601)? The Sherwin Williams salespeople did not seem to have much knowledge about it, and I was looking for other's experience, especially over other primers. 

I am considering using it over Gardz to give a flat white base on a level 5 finish, with the added benefit of hopefully being able to even out some imperfections and sand where needed. I'm a little leery because it's so cheap. Like $10/gallon with the contractor discount. Alternatively, I was going to use Problock, but could do non Sherwin Williams as well. Hoping to have a lot of confidence in whatever is used, but the application is a less familiar (over Gardz).


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## IKnowNothing (Oct 15, 2020)

grayscale said:


> Does anyone have experience with Sherwin Williams high build interior latex primer (B28W08601)? The Sherwin Williams salespeople did not seem to have much knowledge about it, and I was looking for other's experience, especially over other primers.
> 
> I am considering using it over Gardz to give a flat white base on a level 5 finish, with the added benefit of hopefully being able to even out some imperfections and sand where needed. I'm a little leery because it's so cheap. Like $10/gallon with the contractor discount. Alternatively, I was going to use Problock, but could do non Sherwin Williams as well. Hoping to have a lot of confidence in whatever is used, but the application is a less familiar (over Gardz).


5 years ago I used it twice (rolling, not spraying), and it gave me no build up benefit. Also was quite hard to sand.
I was very disappointed with the lack of build up of it. 

And just few moths ago I read here on PT that only spraying gives the build up results.
For some reason rolling does not. Not sure why. 
I hope others will chime in on it to comment.


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## grayscale (May 9, 2018)

IKnowNothing said:


> 5 years ago I used it twice (rolling, not spraying), and it gave me no build up benefit. Also was quite hard to sand.
> I was very disappointed with the lack of build up of it.
> 
> And just few moths ago I read here on PT that only spraying gives the build up results.
> ...


That's very helpful to know because I planned on rolling, or spraying and backrolling, because I won't be confident in my sprayer (or my own skills) to not get a bunch of overspray and inconsistency. 

I might scratch the build up benefit need and just go for something that I know will adhere well to Gardz and give a good dead white flat base before 3M spackle before top coating. Suggestions welcomed.


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## IKnowNothing (Oct 15, 2020)

grayscale said:


> That's very helpful to know because I planned on rolling, or spraying and backrolling, because I won't be confident in my sprayer (or my own skills) to not get a bunch of overspray and inconsistency.
> 
> I might scratch the build up benefit need and just go for something that I know will adhere well to Gardz and give a good dead white flat base before 3M spackle before top coating. Suggestions welcomed.


Maybe wait to see if others will comment on the rolling aspect. Maybe there is some trick to it.
I used two types of roller sleeves , standard nap for rolling walls and seeing no build up I switched to a larger nap, no difference, at least very very little, but not what I was hoping for.

Here is an interesting video.
Tho is addressing different problem with it, bubbling, that I didn't experienced. 

Sherwin Williams High Build Primer Fail.
Do not use Sherwin Williams High Build primer for roll on applications. 
Apparently this specific primer is for spray on application only. 
This little nugget of knowledge would’ve been handy to know when i went in to “Ask Sherwin Williams” what i need.






Are you planing to spot prime 3M before top coating?
I tried their Spackle & Primer in one product, and still was somewhat flashing under two coats of BM Regal eggshell in White dove color. 
Wasn't flashing strong as regular drywall mud or other compounds, but it was not acceptable. 
Was very visible when the sun hit the walls.
I had to give that wall quick sanding and spot primed the spots and applied third coat.
B*S* product in my opinion. Maybe others had better experience with it. I was disappointed.

*
*EDIT**
Lol, I'm 99% sure that the guy in that video is not a professional painter.
Looking at that table and chairs I was cringing... nothing was covered with plastic for protection.


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## grayscale (May 9, 2018)

IKnowNothing said:


> Maybe wait to see if others will comment on the rolling aspect. Maybe there is some trick to it.
> I used two types of roller sleeves , standard nap for rolling walls and seeing no build up I switched to a larger nap, no difference, at least very very little, but not what I was hoping for.
> 
> Here is an interesting video.
> ...


Well this doesn't bring any comfort. The blistering is really strange. I wonder if he waiting long enough before top coating?

For the 3M, I've never actually used the product. I was going to try on this situation specifically because I did not want to have to spot prime over any touchups, and I had heard it was the product to buy for that. Have you found something that works better?


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## IKnowNothing (Oct 15, 2020)

grayscale said:


> Well this doesn't bring any comfort. The blistering is really strange. I wonder if he waiting long enough before top coating?
> 
> For the 3M, I've never actually used the product. I was going to try on this situation specifically because I did not want to have to spot prime over any touchups, and I had heard it was the product to buy for that. Have you found something that works better?


No I didn't.
But I also stopped looking for it. I don't think that miracle product exists. Maybe it does..??
I just spot prime patches, (if I'm doing eggshell).
With matte sheen, it works OK. I don't spot prime. 

If you have time and are willing to experiment to make sure, do a sample on a piece of drywall, do all the steps like on that project, Gardz it, put white primer of your choice (or flat white paint instead of white primer) on it, apply few patches of M3 and top coated (two coats of course) with the paint you will be using.

Then you can take that piece of drywall and move it around into different locations to see how it looks under different light, electric and natural,
to make sure that the 3M (or other product) will not flash unprimed under two coats of top coat. 

I know it's a bit of a 'project', but that's the only way to know for sure before you commit to a larger project.


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## IKnowNothing (Oct 15, 2020)

grayscale said:


> Does anyone have experience with Sherwin Williams high build interior latex primer (B28W08601)? The Sherwin Williams salespeople did not seem to have much knowledge about it, and I was looking for other's experience, especially over other primers.
> 
> I am considering using it over Gardz to give a flat white base on a level 5 finish, with the added benefit of hopefully being able to even out some imperfections and sand where needed. I'm a little leery because it's so cheap. Like $10/gallon with the contractor discount. Alternatively, I was going to use Problock, but could do non Sherwin Williams as well. Hoping to have a lot of confidence in whatever is used, but the application is a less familiar (over Gardz).


From your other thread I know that the Gardz is already applied, but in the future if you like to achieve even sheen for your top coat paint 
I would apply Gardz after the white primer/sealer and spot patch drywall repairs are done.
That way white primer/sealer will give you the contrast to spot the problem areas, and after all is fixed and ready, apply coat of Gardz to get even sheen and to extend the open time for paint application, especially for cutting.

I did that way several times and it worked perfect.
Painting over Gardz (or over Corotech® Clear Acrylic Sealer V027) it's a dream. Smooth like silk and butter.

But having other primer over Gardz and putting two top coats is also very nice to work with, because Gardz prevents excessive moisture absorption into the drywall.
Nothing wrong with doing it that way, except, yes, lack of contrast to spot the drywall imperfections. 

I ditched Gardz (because it has strong smell), and I switched to BM product Corotech® Clear Acrylic Sealer V027, 
as you read it in another thread that you started.

Would be very interesting if you can post after the project is finished, and what you ended up using, and how it looked.
Wish you luck with it.


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## grayscale (May 9, 2018)

IKnowNothing said:


> From your other thread I know that the Gardz is already applied, but in the future if you like to achieve even sheen for your top coat paint
> *I would apply Gardz after the white primer/sealer and spot patch drywall repairs are done.
> That way white primer/sealer will give you the contrast to spot the problem areas, and after all is fixed and ready, apply coat of Gardz to get even sheen and to extend the open time for paint application, especially for cutting.*
> 
> ...


That's very helpful. I applied Gardz to the bare skim coat because it was my understanding that it's great benefit was penetration on the taping compound and hardening/sealing it. Your method definitely makes sense for using it as a base for a top coat. I screwed up and did a bunch of spot priming with Gardz over the Gardz, and now I'm told that's a big no-no.


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## IKnowNothing (Oct 15, 2020)

grayscale said:


> That's very helpful. I applied Gardz to the bare skim coat because it was my understanding that it's great benefit was penetration on the taping compound and hardening/sealing it. Your method definitely makes sense for using it as a base for a top coat. *I screwed up and did a bunch of spot priming with Gardz over the Gardz, and now I'm told that's a big no-no.*


I personally never noticed spot priming with Gardz over Gardz creating extra sheen problems if you are applying two top coats over it.
But perhaps it could, I guess. 
It will definitely have extra sheen in that spot, but I think two coats of paint (especially drying over night between coats), will cover it (seal it if you will), and make it invisible. 
I would like to read more about it from painters who had that issue happen to them. 

In your case if you are going to apply white primer (or just white flat paint) over Gardz in order to do the drywall repairs I'm sure there will be no issues with extra flashing of double Gardzs areas. 
I wouldn't worry about it.


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## Masterwork (Sep 13, 2020)

Here's my question... Who the hell is paying for 3 coats of primer, and where can I find work like that?

Is this stuff you've suggested, or are you eating the cost because you just want to do the best job possible?


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## jr.sr. painting (Dec 6, 2013)

On popcorn removal(yes we do that) it is very common to Gardz the ceilings after removal, re tape and 2 skim coats followed by another coat of drywall primer and then 2 finish coats. So yes 2/3 coats of primer is sometimes necessary. The finished results are perfect. Popcorn removal is one of the messiest jobs but it does pay well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## IKnowNothing (Oct 15, 2020)

Masterwork said:


> Here's my question... Who the hell is paying for 3 coats of primer, and where can I find work like that?
> 
> Is this stuff you've suggested, or are you eating the cost because you just want to do the best job possible?


Only 2 coats of primer/sealer. Not 3.

If you are doing 5 level (even 4 level) job and evenness of top coat sheen is crucial, especially in eggshell sheen on walls 
with lot's of light hitting the wall, sealing with product like Gardz ,or Draw Tide ,or BM Corotech® Clear Acrylic Sealer V027,
is the only way to assure success. 
Any you are only adding one extra coat of primer/sealer to the labour.


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## IKnowNothing (Oct 15, 2020)

jr.sr. painting said:


> On popcorn removal(yes we do that) it is very common to Gardz the ceilings after removal, re tape and 2 skim coats followed by another coat of drywall primer and then 2 finish coats. So yes 2/3 coats of primer is sometimes necessary. The finished results are perfect. Popcorn removal is one of the messiest jobs but it does pay well.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Absolutely agree.
I did few popcorn ceiling removals, and considering that 99% of them had unprimed/unsealed drywall before popcorn was sprayed on them, priming/sealing with water based clear sealer is much better choice than sealing it with oil based. 

Skim coating over such prepared surface is much easier and gives better results, makes skimming job go faster.
So yes, one extra coat of primer on the ceiling. Not a big material cost or time involvement, considering the benefits.

As a primer over skimmed ceilings (or walls) I use clear sealer also. I just skip the white primer. Two coats of paint cover perfectly over it.


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## IKnowNothing (Oct 15, 2020)

Here is a very interesting product to help with Level-5 finishes.
Or Level-4 for that matter. 
It's not clear like Gardz or Corotech® Clear Acrylic Sealer V027, it's white.
So it's very easy to spot imperfections in drywall. 
I wonder if any members here used it and how it performed for them.

Maybe there was a thread or posts about it and I missed it. 
Maybe this primer is better than the primers/sealers from paint stores.
I'm going to try it for sure. 

The only reason I would apply clear sealer (like V0-27) on top of FIRST COAT PRIMER, is to gain the extended open time (especially when painting on hot dry day), clear sealer will also add to the sheen uniformity as well.
From description of this product, it sounds like it could be better primer than most of the paint store primers, (perhaps even including BM Fresh Start). 


SHEETROCK® BRAND FIRST COAT™ PRIMER.
Easy-to-apply drywall finishing primer that is designed for preparing new interior walls & ceilings.
https://www.usg.com/content/dam/USG...eetrock-first-coat-primer-submittal-J1095.pdf

_Here is some info on it:_

Addresses drywall decorating problems by minimizing surface texture variations
• Minimizes joint banding and photographing
• Dries to a white finish in under 30 minutes
• Designed for fast, economical application
• Applies with brush, roller, airless or conventional spray

Decorating problems (commonly referred to by such names as “joint banding” or “photographing”) are usually caused by differences between the porosities and surface textures of gypsum panel face paper or concrete and the finished joint compound, and are magnified by the use of gloss paints.

When viewed in direct, natural lighting under these conditions, the joints and fasteners in decorated walls and ceilings may be visible.

Unlike traditional primer/sealer products, USG Sheetrock® Brand First Coat™ Primer has been formulated specifically to equalize both porosity and surface texture differences and provide greater uniformity of the finish coat. 

In contrast to a sealer, USG Sheetrock® Brand First Coat™ Primer does not provide a film that seals the substrate surface. 
Instead, it minimizes porosity differences by providing a base that equalizes the absorption rate variations between the drywall face paper and the
finished joint compound when painted. 

USG Sheetrock® Brand First Coat™ Primer also provides the
proper type and amount of pigments and fillers (lacking in many conventional primers and sealers) to equalize surface texture differences. 
This product is not intended as a final coating—it should be overpainted when dry. 

This versatile primer can be intermixed with wall and ceiling spray textures to
enhance hardness, bond and whiteness. Surface priming recommendations on texture bag still apply.

*1.* Allow USG Sheetrock® Brand First Coat™ Primer to dry and then apply a quality wall size before applying wallpaper or vinyl wallcovering.


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## IKnowNothing (Oct 15, 2020)

grayscale said:


> Well this doesn't bring any comfort. The blistering is really strange. I wonder if he waiting long enough before top coating?
> 
> For the 3M, I've never actually used the product. I was going to try on this situation specifically because I did not want to have to spot prime over any touchups, and I had heard it was the product to buy for that. Have you found something that works better?


I guess if it was sanded we might assume that it was dry. 
Tho sometimes is dry on the surface (good enough to sand) but not completely deeper below.
Also would be good to know what brand of drywall mud was used.
Maybe drywall mud had some weird additive, or sometimes drywallers add liquid dish soap to the mud to make it slide better when mudding.
But it's possible that was entirely fault of the primer, some bad batch perhaps.


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## grayscale (May 9, 2018)

IKnowNothing said:


> Here is a very interesting product to help with Level-5 finishes.
> Or Level-4 for that matter.
> It's not clear like Gardz or Corotech® Clear Acrylic Sealer V027, it's white.
> So it's very easy to spot imperfections in drywall.
> ...


This looks similar to the other spray-on high-build level 5 drywall primers, no? 

Certainteed has one appropriately named, "*Level V*"
McCormick Paints has "*1st Step*"
Dunn Edwards has "*Prep-Wall*"
Sherwin Williams - hard to tell because Google brings up several products not found on their garbage of a website: e.g., *Builder Solution*, *High Build Primer*, *Comex ULTRA TECH*
Benjamin Moore has "*Ultra Spec Prep Coat Hi-Build Latex Interior Primer (580)*"
...and I'm sure there are many more. It's my understanding that these work best when sprayed to build up, and that rolling might not achieve the build/hide that is the benefit these primers offer. I have no experience with them, and it would be interesting to hear from those that have used more than one of these and have used both methods for application.


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## IKnowNothing (Oct 15, 2020)

grayscale said:


> This looks similar to the other spray-on high-build level 5 drywall primers, no?
> 
> Certainteed has one appropriately named, "*Level V*"
> McCormick Paints has "*1st Step*"
> ...


No it does not.!!!
If you carefully read *all* the descriptions of it that I posted below the:

*SHEETROCK® BRAND FIRST COAT™ PRIMER.*
Easy-to-apply drywall finishing primer that is designed for preparing new interior walls & ceilings.
https://www.usg.com/content/dam/USG_...ttal-J1095.pdf

_Here is some info on it:_


...you will notice that this primer/sealer has different purpose than giving a high build up.
Also in the spec document pdf they are talking that it can be easily applied with brush and roller, not only by spraying. 

*Quote-1:*
"Stir gently. Do not thin for brush or roller application. 
For spray application, if necessary, add water in half-pint increments up to a maximum 1 qt. of water per gallon.
Note: Overthinning may cause poor adhesion, lack of hide and unequal suction when dry. May be tinted."

*Quote-2:*
WALL & CEILING APPLICATIONS:
Apply a full coverage coat. Material dries to touch in under 30 min. under 75°F/50% R.H.conditions. 
Maintain minimum air, product mix and surface temperature of 55°F (13°C) during application and until surface is dry. 

Brush, roller or airless spray gun may be used. 
If surface is not ideal, backrolling of airless spray applications may be beneficial.
Brush—Use a high quality, professional paint brush.

Roller—For best results, use a high-quality roller with 1/8" to 1/4" nap on smooth and semismooth surfaces. 
For any surface, maximum nap length should not exceed 1/2". 

https://www.usg.com/content/dam/USG...eetrock-first-coat-primer-submittal-J1095.pdf

.


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## Michdawn (Oct 26, 2020)

Honestly, I have not been happy with Sherwin products. You can get good primer from Benjamin Moore and Cloverdale (not sure if you have that one) that are affordable and good coverage. If you are using Sherwin I would go with the PVA primer from there and tint to half of what your colour is. And if you’re trying high build try the supreme. Their products are quite inferior to other products


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## Masterwork (Sep 13, 2020)

SW is hit or miss. I absolutely love their pre-cat epoxy. It's tougher than it should be.

Their "Multi-purpose Primer" is actually really good at bonding. I use it a lot on hollow metal doors/frames.


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## Dues911 (Nov 16, 2021)

IKnowNothing said:


> Maybe wait to see if others will comment on the rolling aspect. Maybe there is some trick to it.
> I used two types of roller sleeves , standard nap for rolling walls and seeing no build up I switched to a larger nap, no difference, at least very very little, but not what I was hoping for.
> 
> Here is an interesting video.
> ...


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## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

Dues911 said:


> How did you fix this problem?


I always find a shot of whiskey is the key to solving any problem. Of course, you add that to the painter, not the paint.


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## dbelangerdrywall (2 mo ago)

grayscale said:


> That's very helpful. I applied Gardz to the bare skim coat because it was my understanding that it's great benefit was penetration on the taping compound and hardening/sealing it. Your method definitely makes sense for using it as a base for a top coat. I screwed up and did a bunch of spot priming with Gardz over the Gardz, and now I'm told that's a big no-no.


 spot priming takes a couple of minutes and can be painted over after 10 to 15 minutes. you can even spot prime already sealed walls with the paint you are about to use most of the time unless there is accent lighting or something. Half of the problems I'm seeing you guys talk about are probably a result of the guards itself. guards is for sealing down peeling wallpaper and damaged drywall.no need to do it to brand new skimmed walls try not to overthink painting so much. prime the walls with a new drywall primer/sealer, fix the imperfections and nail holes that can be seen, spot prime those patches quick and paint pretty simple.


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## dbelangerdrywall (2 mo ago)

IKnowNothing said:


> Maybe wait to see if others will comment on the rolling aspect. Maybe there is some trick to it.
> I used two types of roller sleeves , standard nap for rolling walls and seeing no build up I switched to a larger nap, no difference, at least very very little, but not what I was hoping for.
> 
> Here is an interesting video.
> ...


did you sand the patches in the first place? think about what flashing under paint actually is. without priming the first coat of paint is gonna get sucked in leaving no nap when dry leaving a noticable smooth spot for light to rfeflect off of. of course it's gonna look different if you have a super smooth spot in the middle of a wall it doesn't match it's gonna reflect light differently no matter what you do. you have to blend the patches in with the sanding sponge before you spot prime and then paint to make it blend in there's no magic tricks in painting. even the best walls will blow your mind if you use an inspection light shining flat up the wall to creat shadows. all about perspective which is why level 5 finishes ae needed wherw accent lighting and natural sunlight will be shining straight down a wall or cieling. Recessed can lights are literally designed to get rid of shadows and make your drywall look better. And I am truly amazed at the lengths some people will go to to avoid spot priming which literally takes the tiniest amount of primer and very little time but someone will go spend a ton of money and time on products that they have no idea how to use for no reason.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

First off, this thread is a year old and likely not active anymore. 2nd of of all, there are alot of people that will argue that Gardz is in fact a fantastic sealer for bare plaster, especially where a level 5 is expected. Take a minute and maybe introduce yourself here: Thanks.



dbelangerdrywall said:


> did you sand the patches in the first place? think about what flashing under paint actually is. without priming the first coat of paint is gonna get sucked in leaving no nap when dry leaving a noticable smooth spot for light to rfeflect off of. of course it's gonna look different if you have a super smooth spot in the middle of a wall it doesn't match it's gonna reflect light differently no matter what you do. you have to blend the patches in with the sanding sponge before you spot prime and then paint to make it blend in there's no magic tricks in painting. even the best walls will blow your mind if you use an inspection light shining flat up the wall to creat shadows. all about perspective which is why level 5 finishes ae needed wherw accent lighting and natural sunlight will be shining straight down a wall or cieling. Recessed can lights are literally designed to get rid of shadows and make your drywall look better. And I am truly amazed at the lengths some people will go to to avoid spot priming which literally takes the tiniest amount of primer and very little time but someone will go spend a ton of money and time on products that they have no idea how to use for no reason.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

dbelangerdrywall said:


> spot priming takes a couple of minutes and can be painted over after 10 to 15 minutes. you can even spot prime already sealed walls with the paint you are about to use most of the time unless there is accent lighting or something.* Half of the problems I'm seeing you guys talk about are probably a result of the guards itself. guards is for sealing down peeling wallpaper and damaged drywall.no need to do it to brand new skimmed walls* try not to overthink painting so much. prime the walls with a new drywall primer/sealer, fix the imperfections and nail holes that can be seen, spot prime those patches quick and paint pretty simple.


Seems to be a pretty bold statement to join a group of painting professionals and make your first posts about how we are all probably doing it wrong, especially from someone with a title as a drywaller, (and without even a proper introduction).

I think you'll find there are plenty of ways to get to the finish line, and I'd ask you to keep an open mind in the future and do some reading on these boards and you'll see for yourself why some painters have chosen to use certain products for particular applications. Gardz is much more than for sealing peeling wallpaper or damaged drywall. Welcome to PaintTalk. Looking forward to reading your intro.


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