# got a cedar shingle job coming up and need some advice from vets



## cappaint (May 24, 2011)

I thought I knew a lot until I came on here. I just know you guys have painted your share of cedar shinlgles and can give me some good advice.

My basic plan was to wash it down with a stiff bristled brush and a bleech/water mix.....hose off and let dry for prolly 2 weeks.


It has already been painted a while back...so I wasnt planning on priming it but possibly spot priming areas that are exposed. Is this a bad idea?


I know Im going to get torched for this but I was thinking about using Behr paint and primer in one because the lady is on a budget...not sure yet.


If I used duration instead would a primer be necessary?



As for the actual application I was going to spray it on and back brush it when necessary. Is there a recommended sheen when painting cedar shingles?



Anyway, if you have any suggestions or just some general advice please feel free to preech on.


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

cappaint said:


> My basic plan was to wash it down with a stiff bristled brush and a bleech/water mix.....hose off and let dry for prolly 2 weeks.
> 
> Good plan, but instead of waiting 2 weeks and guessing if its dry enough. Invest $50 in a moisture meter and check it in a few days after washing. If the moisture content is 18% or less you're good to go. Its a good tool to have and can save you issues on exterior jobs by checking the moisture content before painting
> 
> ...


Okie dokie :thumbsup:


----------



## cappaint (May 24, 2011)

Thanks man...some good stuff in there.


I mite go ahead and get the moisture meter.

Is there an oil based primer you recommend? I know a lot of places stopped carrying anything oil based.


So you despise the paint and primer too? I know the general consensus is that it sucks but I've used it for a lot of interior jobs and it does what it says....I roll str8 over large areas of spackle, wood filler, and bare wood and you cant even tell it wasnt primed...the 2nd coat looks money. Now if you try that even with a top of the line interior sw it will look terrible and probably not bond well.<-----The point of all this jibberish is I believe it does prime well and I think that the older shingles could benefit from that. The problem is I respect the opinions of the vets on here so Im torn on who to believe....you guys or my own eyes....im leaning towards you guys lol.
Thing is I've never used it on an entire exterior job so I dont know how my results would be.
Have you guys actually tried the paint and primer and hate it from experience or do you just not trust the brand?


Is there an oil based primer you recommend? I know a lot of places stopped carrying anything oil based.



As for the sheen, i havent discussed it with the homeowner yet but Im thinking a satin would offer more protection, no?


----------



## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

cappaint said:


> I mite go ahead and get the moisture meter.


 I would recommend it. They are not that expensive. I carry one in the truck. Every painter should.


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Paint and primer is sort of misleading. All of the uses you mentioned are fine, most products can do that already. Behr didnt reinvent something new.

The problem is, people think paint and primer means they never need primer again. Or somehow, its better. When I ask people why they need the paint and primer to repaint their already painted walls....I get the :blink: look


----------



## cappaint (May 24, 2011)

NCPaint1 said:


> Paint and primer is sort of misleading. All of the uses you mentioned are fine, most products can do that already. Behr didnt reinvent something new.
> 
> The problem is, people think paint and primer means they never need primer again. Or somehow, its better. When I ask people why they need the paint and primer to repaint their already painted walls....I get the :blink: look


 

If I were to paint a newer home or walls that were just primed then Id def. rather use SW or BM but if the walls are in rough shape the paint and primer works well. I cant use BM or SW over spackling. Basically instead of prime plus 2 you can just do 2. 


Anyway Im not here to promote the product...just wondering if its acceptable for an exterior application. I mean if I was going to do a prime plus 2 coats I would use SW but if Im only doing 2 coats wouldnt the paint and primer be beneficial.


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

cappaint said:


> I cant use BM or SW over spackling. Basically instead of prime plus 2 you can just do 2.


Says who? Of course you can. You can with Aura, Regal, and Ben.


----------



## cappaint (May 24, 2011)

NCPaint1 said:


> Says who? Of course you can. You can with Aura, Regal, and Ben.


 
I mean you can do anything you want but its not recommended is it?

I would never go over a heavily spackled room with bm or sw....I went over a 1ftX6 inch spot that i repaired the other day with BM but it was hidden under a sink.


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

cappaint said:


> I mean you can do anything you want but its not recommended is it?


Aura ----> Self Priming

Regal ----> Primer & Paint

Ben ----> Primer & Paint ( the label will read that soon )


----------



## mpminter (Mar 21, 2011)

NCPaint1 said:


> Aura ----> Self Priming
> 
> Regal ----> Primer & Paint
> 
> Ben ----> Primer & Paint ( the label will read that soon )


Actually, that brings up an interesting question in my mind. Is there a difference between paint and primer in one, and self priming paint?


----------



## cappaint (May 24, 2011)

NCPaint1 said:


> Aura ----> Self Priming
> 
> Regal ----> Primer & Paint
> 
> Ben ----> Primer & Paint ( the label will read that soon )


 

Aura has an exterior brand right? If that claims to be self priming I could use that instead.


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

cappaint said:


> Aura has an exterior brand right? If that claims to be self priming I could use that instead.


Yes. Although I'd still spot prime with oil over cedar.


----------



## BreatheEasyHP (Apr 24, 2011)

The primer question:

"Primer" is a generic term. Some primers are better at stain blocking (smart prime), others at biting into the wood (oil), others at stopping peeling (peel bond). The pertinent question is: In what way does the paint/primer act as a primer? 

Biting deep into wood is possibly not the answer.

If you're going for longevity, I'd:

Brush a paintable sealer on the bare wood - daly's, wolman's woodlife classic 
Roll or spray peeling areas with peel bond
2 coats

If you can't afford all of that, IMO Peel Bond is superior to oil primers because it's flexible and breathable. Wood will expand and contract; oil primer will not. However, Peel Bond is not stain blocking at all, so if tannin bleed is an issue, XIM has an additive for stain blocking. 

Behr - Paint peeling is generally not an issue in interiors, washability is. Behr premium plus ultra is washable, covers well, has a consistent sheen when applied, and applies easily. Is there anything else to consider when thinking about interior paint?

As for exterior, who actually knows for sure, and if someone does, how would we know they know? Frankly, there's enough voices saying not to use behr exterior that I won't do it. They might be wrong, _but it's not worth the risk!_


----------



## cappaint (May 24, 2011)

BreatheEasyHP said:


> The primer question:
> 
> "Primer" is a generic term. Some primers are better at stain blocking (smart prime), others at biting into the wood (oil), others at stopping peeling (peel bond). The pertinent question is: In what way does the paint/primer act as a primer?
> 
> ...


 

After scrubbing off some of the lose paint today I can see that it has been primed...it has a grayish-white substrate so im guessing its an oil based primer. ? 


Most of the topcoat is solid but the parts that are peeling are peeling bad. There wont be much barewood when im done scraping so I guess I need a peel bond.


Im leaning towards not using behr. I estimated the job at 33 per gallon so anything above that is coming out of my pocket but Im thinking either aura, duration, or maybe superpaint. The thing is Im not priming the entire house....just the peeling spots or barewood so I wanna use the one that self primes best without breaking my budget. 


Thanks for the informative post btw, appreciate it.


----------



## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

NCPaint1 said:


> Aura ----> Self Priming
> 
> Regal ----> Primer & Paint
> 
> Ben ----> Primer & Paint ( the label will read that soon )


Saw something like that today - was a big mouse pad type deal that my store put by the register. First thing that went through my head is they are following the Home Depot "Behr" gimmick. That gimmick that Behr is using works. Many times customers ask me about that chit. I just tell them just about all the top of the line products that BM sales are self priming. All the aura except the interior SG say's its self priming.

Anyway looks like BM is jumping on that bandwagon and going to ride it out.

Pat


----------



## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

cappaint said:


> After scrubbing off some of the lose paint today I can see that it has been primed...it has a grayish-white substrate so im guessing its an oil based primer. ?
> 
> 
> Most of the topcoat is solid but the parts that are peeling are peeling bad. There wont be much barewood when im done scraping so I guess I need a peel bond.
> ...


I really think you need to spot prime all the bare wood with the slowest drying oil primer you can find. If not you will have inconsistencies in the finished product. 

Pat


----------



## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

so i should always prime?


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

PatsPainting said:


> Saw something like that today - was a big mouse pad type deal that my store put by the register. First thing that went through my head is they are following the Home Depot "Behr" gimmick. That gimmick that Behr is using works. Many times customers ask me about that chit. I just tell them just about all the top of the line products that BM sales are self priming. All the aura except the interior SG say's its self priming.
> 
> Anyway looks like BM is jumping on that bandwagon and going to ride it out.
> 
> Pat


Most products always have been, same with SW and the other major manufacturers. None ever marketed their products in that way. Ben Moore isnt promoting their products that way, just showing that its available on the label. Its not meant as a selling point for the product. If it were, they probably would have used a bigger size text. Check out a Regal Select can and try to find it on the front :laughing:


----------



## b2dap1 (Mar 18, 2009)

I hate all these "self priming paints! There is no substitute for a good primer first whenever there is trouble, inside or outside. Trouble can be anything from tannin bleed, pelling, gloss etc. You just have to chose the right primer. 

I would spot prime the bare spots with an oil as well. I always use solid stain on cedar shakes. I think Arborcoat is a great choice.


----------



## HeadHoncho (Apr 17, 2007)

cappaint said:


> After scrubbing off some of the lose paint today I can see that it has been primed...it has a grayish-white substrate so im guessing its an oil based primer. ?
> 
> Most of the topcoat is solid but the parts that are peeling are peeling bad. There wont be much barewood when im done scraping so I guess I need a peel bond.
> 
> ...


Nothing is wrong with behr ultra, just use it! You won't be disappointed. Sign up as a HD Pro and you can get the behr even cheaper. It's crazy to spend $20 a gallon more...for this job. Don't lose money on this job, use behr ultra only and forget spot priming. Next time you can bid your materials higher and use duration or whatever.

I've used most of the paint and primer in one paints, and they all are holding up as expected! It's all about prep and having a dry and clean surface. 

Also- I've never had a paint or primer "alone" stick on my hands, brushes, shields, or spray gun...like the paint and primer in one...stuff really bonds well. It's not a gimmick, it works, great product!! Water alone won't clean your tools, so pick up some krud cutter or simple green to help.


----------



## cappaint (May 24, 2011)

gcajnr21 said:


> Nothing is wrong with behr ultra, just use it! You won't be disappointed. Sign up as a HD Pro and you can get the behr even cheaper. It's crazy to spend $20 a gallon more...for this job. Don't lose money on this job, use behr ultra only and forget spot priming. Next time you can bid your materials higher and use duration or whatever.
> 
> I've used most of the paint and primer in one paints, and they all are holding up as expected! It's all about prep and having a dry and clean surface.
> 
> Also- I've never had a paint or primer "alone" stick on my hands, brushes, shields, or spray gun...like the paint and primer in one...stuff really bonds well. It's not a gimmick, it works, great product!! Water alone won't clean your tools, so pick up some krud cutter or simple green to help.


 

I cant tell if this is all sarcasm G....if it's not you are the first person on here who likes the paint and primer in one besides myself. Like I said i think its awesome on interiors and Ive used it on exterior trim but never an entire house.


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Behr Ultra Premium Plus is a decent paint for $35 a gal.

I would still use a BM product over it any day, and you can get Ben for less, I think about $30 gal. I think Regal Select would be about $42 gal.

Support local small businesses like you BM retailer. Stay out of the big box store as much as possible.


----------



## cappaint (May 24, 2011)

straight_lines said:


> Behr Ultra Premium Plus is a decent paint for $35 a gal.
> 
> I would still use a BM product over it any day, and you can get Ben for less, I think about $30 gal. I think Regal Select would be about $42 gal.
> 
> Support local small businesses like you BM retailer. Stay out of the big box store as much as possible.


 

I give half my bus. to this little local paint shape...the paint isnt that expensive but the tools are 40% higher than say depot.

BM is prolly the better paint but i was thinkin bout using the ultra because you really dont have to prime first....If the BM are claiming they are self priming its prolly just in response to the popularity of behr...i doubt they actually changed their formulas.


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

All those paints I listed are brand new tech. They haven't been on the market for more than 12 months. 

BM doesn't need to respond to Behr. They are the industry leader, and have been for a long time.

Also what tools are you talking about?


----------



## cappaint (May 24, 2011)

Regal is new?


Brushes, rollers, multi-tools, shields are all expensive at local joint.


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Regal Select is new, and the exterior is awesome.


----------



## HeadHoncho (Apr 17, 2007)

cappaint said:


> I cant tell if this is all sarcasm G....if it's not you are the first person on here who likes the paint and primer in one besides myself. Like I said i think its awesome on interiors and Ive used it on exterior trim but never an entire house.


I'm being honest! I don't make my decisions based on what others say on this forum. I research and experiment to find what works best.


----------



## HeadHoncho (Apr 17, 2007)

cappaint said:


> I give half my bus. to this little local paint shape...the paint isnt that expensive but the tools are 40% higher than say depot.
> 
> BM is prolly the better paint but i was thinkin bout using the ultra because you really dont have to prime first....If the BM are claiming they are self priming its prolly just in response to the popularity of behr...i doubt they actually changed their formulas.


Remember what your working for? I like local paint stores and support them on certain products, but if I'm giving them money that I could be saving by shopping somewhere else...then I don't feel bad for shopping at the big box store!


----------



## BreatheEasyHP (Apr 24, 2011)

gcajnr21 said:


> Remember what your working for? I like local paint stores and support them on certain products, but if I'm giving them money that I could be saving by shopping somewhere else...then I don't feel bad for shopping at the big box store!


I don't think anyone should feel "bad" about complex decisions regarding perceived responsibility and self-interest. 

In places with strong buy-local movements, I think enlightened self-interest would have it that purchasing from local stores is the logical decision. There are a number of benefits of a strong local and regional economy. I believe that the sum of choices made in self-interest can have a negative effect, thus buying local is a commons problem; the greater benefits aren't felt unless everyone voluntary chooses to forego short-term self-interest.

Sorry, I just seriously went off-topic. But I just wrote all that out, so my apologies.


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

gcajnr21 said:


> Remember what your working for? I like local paint stores and support them on certain products, but if I'm giving them money that I could be saving by shopping somewhere else...then I don't feel bad for shopping at the big box store!


I buy some tools from there as well, but paint sundries are more expensive that say SW. Not a local store but at least they know my name.


----------



## cappaint (May 24, 2011)

I wouldnt buy any tools at a SW or a small local shop or BM dealer. 

I get my plastic drop cloths and paper towels at the dollar store. I get my cloth drop cloths from my friend who works at a moving company for free.

I get my tape, wood filler, and tray liners at walmart. Sometimes tools also....or maybe depot.

Ya mite catch me buying a roller cover at sw if its for a super fine finish.


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

cappaint said:


> I wouldnt buy any tools at a SW or a small local shop or BM dealer.
> 
> I get my plastic drop cloths and paper towels at the dollar store. I get my cloth drop cloths from my friend who works at a moving company for free.
> 
> ...


So now we know how the lowballer stays competitive :thumbsup:

And by super fine finish...you mean Promar 400? 


What decent brush does Walmart carry? Im not saying GOOD...I mean decent. I have yet to see one there.

Walmart and the box stores are higher priced than my stores on many, many sundry items. The last I checked, I was $3 cheaper on thinner than my local competitors. Some of the other products im higher on cant be compared. You cant compare my Stainless Steel tape knives to the box stores non stainless ones that rust after the first use.


----------



## cappaint (May 24, 2011)

NCPaint1 said:


> So now we know how the lowballer stays competitive :thumbsup:
> 
> And by super fine finish...you mean Promar 400?
> 
> ...


 
Keeping my costs down mean I make more profit it doesnt mean that I charge less. I get 12x9 plastic sheets for a buck when they are 2-3 elsewhere....they work exactly the same. I got about 20 free thick 10x10 pads from a friend....Im gonna turn them down?

Dont get my brushes at walmart...never said I did. I buy quality and maintain them...had 3 for over a year.


Taping knives I can get at depot for much less than the local paint shop and they are stainless.


Thanks.


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

cappaint said:


> Keeping my costs down mean I make more profit it doesnt mean that I charge less. I get 12x9 plastic sheets for a buck when they are 2-3 elsewhere....they work exactly the same. I got about 20 free thick 10x10 pads from a friend....Im gonna turn them down?
> 
> Dont get my brushes at walmart...never said I did. I buy quality and maintain them...had 3 for over a year.
> 
> ...


Seems like an awful lot of trips to different places to save a few bucks. Unless you're buying a couple hundred at at time, it wouldn't seem to be worth the hassle.

But hey, I had a Guy leave my shop on Saturday because I wouldn't match his P&L exterior flat price. I was $2/gal higher, and he needed 3 gallons. A whopping $6 savings. He drove a 30 mile round trip to save $6.  @ $4.19 a gallon in his V8 P.O.S Van probably getting 14mpg.


----------



## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

I have to agree with a lot of the painters here. The best way to do it is use an OIL BASED PRIMER to seal back any tanin acids in the wood. As of RIGHT NOW, there is NO water based primer that can seal back tannin acids well. So, one coat of an oil based primer (Zinnser's Coverstain is a great product, you can get it in certain places, like San Diego county in So Cal) let it dry 24 hours or more, then use two coats of an exceptional quality paint, Sherwin William's Super Paint, Pratt and Lambert Accolade, or Ben Moore Aura. After that you are good to go!! Make sure you do a good prep job, DON'T POWERWASH ON CEDAR SHINGLES!!!!


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Yup lol. I stopped counting pennies or dollars when a C-note wouldn't fill up the van. 

If its less than a few miles and or an hour then maybe. An hour of my time is worth more than a few dollars saved as well. Plus I want to give business to people who know me by name, and actually give a damn about their customers.


----------



## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

NCPaint1 said:


> Seems like an awful lot of trips to different places to save a few bucks. Unless you're buying a couple hundred at at time, it wouldn't seem to be worth the hassle.
> 
> But hey, I had a Guy leave my shop on Saturday because I wouldn't match his P&L exterior flat price. I was $2/gal higher, and he needed 3 gallons. A whopping $6 savings. He drove a 30 mile round trip to save $6.  @ $4.19 a gallon in his V8 P.O.S Van probably getting 14mpg.


Ha!!! Yeah, I always say that P&L is the more affordable Ben Moore, just with less paint lines. Was it the gold line or the redseal line that he had?


----------



## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

Ok did some research. Just some cool info i found: The P&L Pro Hide Gold is Equal to Ben Moore's Super Spec, The Regal Line is equal to the P&L Redseal Line, and ofcourse, The BM Aura is equal to P&L's Accolade line.


----------



## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

And I would SAY that even though I sell P&L, Ben Moore's equivilants are a LITTLE better than P&L. Ben Moore may be the best, but P&L is close behind them at a more affordable price. And in one year, they will have their own version of BM's Gennex colorants. If I worked/ran a BIGGER paint store, yes, I would ideally carry Ben Moore.


----------



## cappaint (May 24, 2011)

Where I live there is a dollar store, a walmart, a home depot, in the same plaza.....and a BM and SW within a mile from there. No big deal.


----------



## cappaint (May 24, 2011)

hammerheart14 said:


> I have to agree with a lot of the painters here. The best way to do it is use an OIL BASED PRIMER to seal back any tanin acids in the wood. As of RIGHT NOW, there is NO water based primer that can seal back tannin acids well. So, one coat of an oil based primer (Zinnser's Coverstain is a great product, you can get it in certain places, like San Diego county in So Cal) let it dry 24 hours or more, then use two coats of an exceptional quality paint, Sherwin William's Super Paint, Pratt and Lambert Accolade, or Ben Moore Aura. After that you are good to go!! Make sure you do a good prep job, DON'T POWERWASH ON CEDAR SHINGLES!!!!


 
What brand oil do u recommend?


----------



## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

cappaint said:


> What brand oil do u recommend?


OIL PRIMER? I'll say it again, Zinsser's Coverstain is great. Or are you talking about another type of product?


----------



## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

hammerheart14 said:


> OIL PRIMER? I'll say it again, Zinsser's Coverstain is great. Or are you talking about another type of product?


I would recommend Benjamin Moore Fresh Start oil primer - its much slower drying then coverstain. Coverstain to me is something I would use to cover up water stains or some kids snot smear on the wall. I only use it on interior's. I like them slow drying primers for outside stuff.

Pat


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

hammerheart14 said:


> Ok did some research. Just some cool info i found: The P&L Pro Hide Gold is Equal to Ben Moore's Super Spec, The Regal Line is equal to the P&L Redseal Line, and ofcourse, The BM Aura is equal to P&L's Accolade line.


No, No and No. Not equal, not by a long shot. :no:

If you manage a store, you really need to learn to read a TDS.( not trying to be rude, its important to have correct information to provide your customers.) You cant rely on what the rep says. "Its just as good as ( insert brand )"....... Thats something I learned years ago.

Its an utter sin to say that Accolade is equivalent to Aura. Porcelain is similar to Duration, and both products are below Aura exterior. Accolade is closer to Superpaint.


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

PatsPainting said:


> I would recommend Benjamin Moore Fresh Start oil primer - its much slower drying then coverstain. Coverstain to me is something I would use to cover up water stains or some kids snot smear on the wall. I only use it on interior's. I like them slow drying primers for outside stuff.
> 
> Pat


Yep, not a whole lot of "guts" with Coverstain. Its great for what Pat mentioned, but this job Fresh Start 024 would be a better choice for sure. :thumbsup:


----------



## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

PatsPainting said:


> I would recommend Benjamin Moore Fresh Start oil primer - its much slower drying then coverstain. Coverstain to me is something I would use to cover up water stains or some kids snot smear on the wall. I only use it on interior's. I like them slow drying primers for outside stuff.
> 
> Pat


I can agree with that, it's just that the only oil primer I can get my hands on in so cal is coverstain (and a little iffy as far as laws go), so it's better than nothing for an exterior oil primer. I wish i could get the fresh start.


----------



## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

NCPaint1 said:


> No, No and No. Not equal, not by a long shot. :no:
> 
> If you manage a store, you really need to learn to read a TDS.( not trying to be rude, its important to have correct information to provide your customers.) You cant rely on what the rep says. "Its just as good as ( insert brand )"....... Thats something I learned years ago.
> 
> Its an utter sin to say that Accolade is equivalent to Aura. Porcelain is similar to Duration, and both products are below Aura exterior. Accolade is closer to Superpaint.


I WAS reading the .tds off of Ben Moore's site. And yes, Ben Moore's paint was a LITTLE better as far as technical data is concerned. I agree, all around Ben Moore is a little better than P&L, but P&L fits a smaller paint store like us, AND are more competitive pricing wise. And I still think that Accolade can hang fairly close to Aura, not quite as good, but CLOSE! Their new colorant line will be close to Gennex.

And, BTW, Porcelain is an interior product only.

I am still sure that I made the right choice with P&L: They are a higher quality paint that I can sell at a competitive price and can go up against Dunn Edwards & Devoe in a cut throat market where I live. They are a smaller line which is fine for a smaller paint store. And I like they fact they have our backs with things like buying an Accutiner 7000 for us.

And trust me, I learned last year to NEVER listen to what a salesman says in terms of quality.


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

hammerheart14 said:


> I WAS reading the .tds off of Ben Moore's site. And yes, Ben Moore's paint was a LITTLE better as far as technical data is concerned. I agree, all around Ben Moore is a little better than P&L, but P&L fits a smaller paint store like us, AND are more competitive pricing wise. And I still think that Accolade can hang fairly close to Aura, not quite as good, but CLOSE! Their new colorant line will be close to Gennex.
> 
> And, BTW, Porcelain is an interior product only.
> 
> ...




My bad, I thought they had Porcelain exterior  

If coverstain is the only option, then its the best one then :jester:

Being in SoCal would be an even bigger reason to go Ben Moore. Every new product they have is far below required VOC regs, putting them far ahead of the competition. Advance is still an alkyd product that is soap and water clean up. So you can still sell oil for trim that is compliant, and an excellent product too.

I understand that you need to be competitive. We all need to be. BUT ( big but :whistling2: ) competing on price is a lose lose. Your customers ( the price shoppers, not all ) are only loyal until someone beats your price, and it will happen eventually. Or you're constantly battling over scraps, with absolutely no margin....if one of the corporate outfits wants to beat your price bad enough, they will.

So....deciding on which company to carry relied heavily on them buying you a tint machine? I bought my own BM Gennex machine, and paid for it countless times over so far from selling their stuff. :thumbsup:

My 2 main lines are BM and PPG....although now that BM has purchased Coronado, that may find its way in here :whistling2: They have a great commercial line that is more on par with SW and PPG as far as quality and price. Super Spec is just better than 200 and Speedhide, so its impossible to compete on price. Super Hide is a step down from Spec, but its a big step.....

If I were in your place, Keep P&L, drop a smaller line that you have ( or drop the slow movers ), and bring in BM. Get on board with the Signature program, and only bring in Gennex products ( in SoCal that might be all thats available )


Sorry for going off topic :notworthy:


----------



## cappaint (May 24, 2011)

Im about 3/4 way thru the job and figured I give an update.

Cleaned it with the stiff bristle brush and the bleach solution.

Replaced all the busted up shingles.

Scraped a lot of the old paint off...the latex topcoat that is. There was an oil based primer underneath with minor chaulking. Some sections there was no scraping to be done and some sections I was pulling huge pieces of latex off with ease. 


I went over the exposed areas with a peelbond.


Sprayed and backrolled the first coat.


It looked great. BUT, I was inspecting it today and in the back of the house where the sun was I went back to the drawing board. Apparently I never went far enuff with the scraping and although it looked like it had good adhesion it came off in sheets when scraped. So I spent the entire day today scraping off the paint I applied and the old paint then went over the bare spots with an oil based primer. I think I should have just primed it all with oil base to begin with. 


I've got to do 2 coats on the primed side and I have 1 coat to do on another side and then Im on to the trim. Hopefully there is no more failure.


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

NCPaint1 said:


> Yep, not a whole lot of "guts" with Coverstain. Its great for what Pat mentioned, but this job Fresh Start 024 would be a better choice for sure. :thumbsup:


Its true that it is better for exterior. There is a bitch tax to using it though. One time it took a week for it to dry on trim. It rained two days after applying and stayed humid. Checked back everyday, and was still soft. I think its best to only use it on bare wood where it can soak in. If you use it on non porous substrates that still need primer to seal over unsound areas, it doesn't want to dry. I would go with a faster drying primer instead, like coverstain, or a waterborne like 123.


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

TJ Paint said:


> Its true that it is better for exterior. There is a bitch tax to using it though. One time it took a week for it to dry on trim. It rained two days after applying and stayed humid. Checked back everyday, and was still soft. I think its best to only use it on bare wood where it can soak in. If you use it on non porous substrates that still need primer to seal over unsound areas, it doesn't want to dry. I would go with a faster drying primer instead, like coverstain, or a waterborne like 123.


Of course, but for the OP's job, 024 Fresh Start would be my pick. :thumbsup:


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

cappaint said:


> Im about 3/4 way thru the job and figured I give an update.
> 
> Cleaned it with the stiff bristle brush and the bleach solution.
> 
> ...


What paint did you end up using?

Don't see how the new paint came up in sheets. But good to see your dedication and commitment to the project.


----------



## cappaint (May 24, 2011)

TJ Paint said:


> What paint did you end up using?
> 
> Don't see how the new paint came up in sheets. But good to see your dedication and commitment to the project.


 
Maybe sheets was a bad word...it was more like strips. I went with the behr afterall(flame away)...The paint I put down adhered to the previous coat, it was the coat before that which was peeling from the oil substrate.


If I were to do the job again I would show up with scraper in hand and go at it for 2-3 days with a helper.

Then I would prolly wash it.


Then I would spray an oil based primer on entire house.


Then 2 coats of a premium.


----------

