# Why I hate Ben-Moore



## Slopmeyer (Aug 2, 2009)

I hate BM because they will let any idiot hardware store sell the stuff without basically any training or knowledge as I have fallen prey to the latest idiots mistake.

Had to pickle three rooms of new pine in this cabin, builder ordered the paint from a local hardware store(1st mistake)he only ordered one gallon so whatever.

I spent three days making this pine absolutely beautiful.(Not a color I would have used,but whatever)

Third day I went to get more paint at the hardware store and BAM. Apparently the idiot made that made the first gallon made the wrong color bigtime. 

The people show up and absolutely hate the existing color and now I have to re-do everything!!! Walls, windows,doorjambs, EVERYTHING. 

Sure I'll have to go after the hardware store for compensation, but did I mention the people are coming up fulltime for the summer this coming weekend and I already had my hands full completing the rest of the project!! I hate Ben- Moore!!!!


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Rule #1 check the match (once bitten, twice shy)


----------



## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

And if possible, get the customer to sign off on all colors.


----------



## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

As stated, always check the color, even if it's a factory ready mix. I wasn't in the painting business for five years before I learned (the hard way) to box all product for a job before application. 

Sure this is tough when making tests and the decision for one is finally made, but still, one should NEVER start a job without having all material mixed and ready. 

Now, as to BM distributing to stores who sell paints as a minor side line, I agree. I once thought about opening a paint and hardware store. Wanted BM and Calif as our main lines. Could not bring in BM because a little half assed shop sold BM within too short a distance. IMO, BM does not do their business any favors by not qualifying the dealers. There is such a vast difference in buying BM from a REAL paint store than from a side-liner.


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Doesn't sound like Benjamin Moore's fault one iota. Sorry to hear the problem.


----------



## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

TJ Paint said:


> Doesn't sound like Benjamin Moore's fault one iota. Sorry to hear the problem.


Word. The paint manufacturer had nothing to do with this fiasco. You should be mad at yourself for letting it go south the way it did.


----------



## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

daArch said:


> IMO, BM does not do their business any favors by not qualifying the dealers. There is such a vast difference in buying BM from a REAL paint store than from a side-liner.


We can thank Warren Buffett for this. 

Pat


----------



## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

I disagree. I'd be flippin furious at BM 



> Apparently the idiot made that made the first gallon made the wrong color bigtime.


I don't think its unreasonable to expect a paint supplier to make the right color.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Bender said:


> I disagree. I'd be flippin furious at BM
> 
> I don't think its unreasonable to expect a paint supplier to make the right color.


It's not unreasonable but it's not reality.


----------



## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

941owassard said:


> I hate BM because they will let any idiot hardware store sell the stuff without basically any training or knowledge as I have fallen prey to the latest idiots mistake.


I think this is the main reason we value our relationships with our suppliers.

I am sorry that happened, going to make a lot of extra work, but you can't hate BM because of it. If you want me to change the thread title, let me know.


----------



## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Bender said:


> I disagree. I'd be flippin furious at BM
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think its unreasonable to expect a paint supplier to make the right color.



Have you ever read the sticker on tinted cans? Says something like, check the color, nonrefundable, something to that effect. Buying from a DIYer store, one should have supervised more, knowing the DIYer store lacks in experience.


----------



## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

Yep right on the sticker it says - "custom color not returnable verify before applying"

Pat


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Just look at this situation as an opportunity. Instead of it wasting your time, consider it a capital investment for the future, or i.e, "paying your dues"

I here now decree that this glass of water is half full now rather than half empty.


----------



## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

TJ Paint said:


> I hear now decree that this glass of water is half full now rather than half empty.


I'm a realist. This glass has 8 oz in it.


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

jack pauhl said:


> I'm a realist. This glass has 8 oz in it.


me too but shhh., lets keep it on the down-low.


----------



## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Have you ever read the sticker on tinted cans? Says something like, check the color, nonrefundable, something to that effect. Buying from a DIYer store, one should have supervised more, knowing the DIYer store lacks in experience.


They have stickers:blink:


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Bender said:


> They have stickers:blink:


They should, think it also says on the label on the back of the can, right after "stir thoroughly ".

This is something that really ticks me off. You can't expect to be compensated because you applied the wrong color. You are supposed to double check. If you were at a restaurant and they brought you chicken instead of the steak you ordered, would you look at it first or just start eating?


----------



## 4ThGeneration (Apr 17, 2007)

Your first problem was going to a hardware store in the first place no matter if they carry quality products. Even in the best Paint stores they have people behind the counter who have no idea of how to paint. They only know how to use the procedures they are given and at hardware stores they do not have them. Computer matches are not perfect, but if they were that way off why did you not see that before? when I have colors matched I always make sure I that I have the sample and see a dot of the matched paint on it. Also,make sure you look at the match in the correct lighting. 

Sorry for the bad news, but always check color and sheen as well as product line to be what you ordered.


----------



## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Hey, I'm not drawing a hard line here. Of course the painter should check, but if I ordered steak and you brought me chicken I feel like thats your fault, not mine.


----------



## 4ThGeneration (Apr 17, 2007)

Bender said:


> Hey, I'm not drawing a hard line here. Of course the painter should check, but if I ordered steak and you brought me chicken I feel like thats your fault, not mine.


If you ordered steak and was brought chicken and consumed it without noticing you have some issues you really need to consider other than whats for dinner. 

:whistling2:


----------



## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

4ThGeneration said:


> If you ordered steak and was brought chicken and consumed it without noticing you have some issues you really need to consider other than whats for dinner.
> 
> :whistling2:


I was drunk


----------



## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Bender said:


> I was drunk



and you only got served CHICKEN ??

If you were my table, drunk w/ an attitude, what I serve you would be still be steaming all right. :whistling2: :laughing:


----------



## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

941owassard said:


> I hate BM because they will let any idiot hardware store sell the stuff without basically any training or knowledge as I have fallen prey to the latest idiots mistake.
> 
> Had to pickle three rooms of new pine in this cabin, builder ordered the paint from a local hardware store(1st mistake)he only ordered one gallon so whatever.
> 
> ...


And... Since it isn't your fault you will get paid twice. Don't worry be happy, oh and buy your own paint next time. 

You should have learned that lesson years ago.


----------



## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

daArch said:


> and you only got served CHICKEN ??
> 
> If you were my table, drunk w/ an attitude, what I serve you would be still be steaming all right. :whistling2: :laughing:


Always about the poop with you Bill!

Did you see this?


----------



## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

RCP said:


> Always about the poop with you Bill!
> 
> Did you see this?


I am always amazed at every ones creative searches.


----------



## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

RCP said:


> Always about the poop with you Bill!
> 
> Did you see this?


Well THAT will shut me right the hell up :thumbsup:

DO NOT let McDonalds see that.


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Bender said:


> Hey, I'm not drawing a hard line here. Of course the painter should check, but if I ordered steak and you brought me chicken I feel like thats your fault, not mine.


Its my fault for bringing it, but its your fault for eating it. I shouldn't have to replace it AND pay you for the time you spent eating it lol.


----------



## BC_Painter (Feb 14, 2010)

NCPaint1 said:


> Its my fault for bringing it, but its your fault for eating it. I shouldn't have to replace it AND pay you for the time you spent eating it lol.


Should have said something before eating the damn thing....


I agree, this is not a Ben Moore problem, this is a customer service problem, as well as a failure to check for both color accuracy / customer approval.

I've had incorrect colors but have caught them before application. One particular job comes to mind. I had used 4 gallons of product and had BAD surfactant leaching that blemished the finish so this season I recoated it after a good wash/scrub. 

Unfortunately the 2 new gallons did not match the old color OR each other. The paint store spent about 2 hours rematching both by hand to the original sample. No idea what happened, but we'd be screwed if we ever needed more. There is close to a full gallon left, and I recoated 2/3 of the house with just over a gallon. ( small amount of aluminum siding, thin product )

Paint store made it perfect, and took the time to do it. The service was great, even with the original botch which can be from a variety of sources from someone not paying attention while tinting, incorrect match formula written down, slight level differences between cans etc. This is why you always check, box etc.

I am thrilled with the service I get, and know that mistakes happen. Between confirmation beforehand, and their work to either correct what we had, or give us new product, we never have issues like this.

P.S. BM used to be my "go to" store until I changed cities and the local owner was a bit of a tool. It was bought by someone who I actually dealt with in the past in my old city and the service is already getting better. The people make the difference, not the label on the can. I probably still wouldn't buy from a little DIY store though, cause then you get a people problem, but not a BM problem. :whistling2:


----------



## Different Strokes (Dec 8, 2010)

Bender said:


> Hey, I'm not drawing a hard line here. Of course the painter should check, but if I ordered steak and you brought me chicken I feel like thats your fault, not mine.


If I ordered chicken and they brought me surf and turf, but only charged me for the chicken, I would eat there every weekend. 

If I ordered green paint, and they brought me black eyed peas I would be pissed. 

If I ordered a lap dance and got a pigeon toed midget dressed like blackbeard the pirate I would probably stay to check it out. I mean you pass up a chance like that and you may never get another.


----------



## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Had a similar situation last winter. Customers had out samples on the wall (those little jars BM offers) and decided on their choice. They take off on a trip while I'm doing the work. I do part of one wall and think, "This isn't the same color as the sample.". Sure enough, the BM guy had transposed some numbers in the formula. The color was very close but had a definite lavender cast to it that the sample didn't have. Glad there was something on the wall to check it by because the number and name were correct, and color dab on top of the can looked to be accurate - only after enough was on did it become apparent something was wrong. The BM guy did correct the problem and credited me for my time so everything was good. 
I can honestly say I've NEVER had this problem occur with my regular paint store of choice (Miller Paints). They've made up my order in the wrong sheen a few times but I can easily catch that by checking the labels before leaving the store.


----------



## rjensen ptg (Jun 9, 2011)

Wait a minute... the BM rep credited you with your time?


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

941owassard said:


> I hate BM because they will let any idiot hardware store sell the stuff without basically any training or knowledge as I have fallen prey to the latest idiots mistake.
> 
> Had to pickle three rooms of new pine in this cabin, builder ordered the paint from a local hardware store(1st mistake)he only ordered one gallon so whatever.
> 
> ...


Oddly, I am not seeing any product information. My understanding is that the hardware stores are carrying mostly Gennex formulations which are computer mixed, very little room for human error unless its a communication or data entry error, both of which, as mentioned, should be confirmed before application of paint. 

What are you pickling with?


----------



## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

941owassard said:


> builder ordered the paint from a local hardware store(1st mistake)he only ordered one gallon so whatever.


Sounds like this is the builders problemn, not BM. So why are you fixing this for free?


----------



## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

rjensen ptg said:


> Wait a minute... the BM rep credited you with your time?


Yep. Asked me to estimate time wasted because of his error and credited me on my materials bill. First time I ever had that happen anywhere. He's a good guy and was more upset over his mistake than I was.


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

researchhound said:


> Yep. Asked me to estimate time wasted because of his error and credited me on my materials bill. First time I ever had that happen anywhere. He's a good guy and was more upset over his mistake than I was.


Always nice to hear about a good rep, from any of the manufacturers. Nothing like a good rep.


----------



## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Most pickling that I have done is with oil, so not gennex. Also, most small hardware stores have not made the genes investment.

Btw, I have seen some issues with tinting on the gennex machine not matching (same batch, tinted same day, same machine).


----------



## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

vermontpainter said:


> Always nice to hear about a good rep, from any of the manufacturers. Nothing like a good rep.


I agree. I'm fortunate to have good reps in all three of the stores I work with: Miller Paint (regional outfit), SW, and BM.


----------



## One Coat Coverage (Oct 4, 2009)

I have had the exact same thing happen to me. Most BM dealers are hardware stores that have ancient manual tinters. You can't trust them for anything. You have to check the color.


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

DeanV said:


> Most pickling that I have done is with oil, so not gennex. Also, most small hardware stores have not made the genes investment.
> 
> Btw, I have seen some issues with tinting on the gennex machine not matching (same batch, tinted same day, same machine).


I am going to have to start calling you Bad Luck Schleprock. You are going through a phase like Jason API had a couple of years ago. :jester:


----------



## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Is there a blog about this somewhere?


----------



## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> I am going to have to start calling you Bad Luck Schleprock. You are going through a phase like Jason API had a couple of years ago. :jester:


Trying to get a wb finish system without issues, plus shop purchase, move, etc issues, plus bad weather this spring, has cursed late 2010 through 2011 to date. Add in bad pine, glue spots, stain that will not take, and first coat fisheyes on the recent set of windows and I might be ready to close up shop if, for the first time in my life, I was not an optimist.


----------



## WarlinePainting (May 22, 2011)

rjensen ptg said:


> Wait a minute... the BM rep credited you with your time?


Had a similar experience. Doing a kitchen cabinet repaint in Advance and the colour match looked good on the sample board. Did an entire first coat and it didn't dry to the same colour. Subtle difference but the customer was super picky. BM Manager came out with a BM rep and took a look and agreed, (they found out that the formula for the Advance was slightly different) replaced all the paint and creditted us for a full days work. Delivered paint to us, made the customer feel better and totally turned the job around for us.

He now gets all of our BM business.

There is another thread about your relationship with your supplier and this is a perfect example of why it is so important.


----------



## BigDogPainting (Apr 13, 2011)

Just did an 8 color interior. Very deep colors. Half of the walls had major picture framing. ****ty.


----------



## BreatheEasyHP (Apr 24, 2011)

jack pauhl said:


> I'm a realist. This glass has 8 oz in it.


I'm a scientist. I measure to the miniscus, so it depends on whether the liquid forms a convex or concave miniscus. I guess that also makes me a post-modernist, but I don't like it.


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

BreatheEasyHP said:


> I'm a scientist. I measure to the miniscus, so it depends on whether the liquid forms a convex or concave miniscus. I guess that also makes me a post-modernist, but I don't like it.


Also, through extensive grant funded research, it has been discovered that the nature of the water itself will change, depending on who is observing the said water.


----------



## Slopmeyer (Aug 2, 2009)

Apparently I wasn't clear that me clarify.

I didnt order the paint the builder did(???) I never saw a sample of the color nor did I choose to use BM. I dont even have a color chart for BM as I never use them.

And BM is partially reponsible because they let these morons sell there product with pretty much no training. But it is the hardware stores responsiblity to compensate me as they were supposed to put 5. of OY in and the guy put 5 full pumps in.(They tracked him down and he remembered it because he had to refill the tint before making the wrong color.)

As far as the rules on the can yeah they tell you alot on how they cover there butt.
Any way you look at it, its just a hassle


----------



## bigjeffie61520 (Oct 3, 2009)

TJ Paint said:


> Also, through extensive grant funded research, it has been discovered that the nature of the water itself will change, depending on who is observing the said water.


you guys need to tune in and watch 'through the wormhole' w/ morgan freeman on the science channel........


----------



## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

When you bigger shops have multiple jobs going do expect your foreman to verify colors on site or do you assume the paint store sent the right stuff?


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

941owassard said:


> Apparently I wasn't clear that me clarify.
> 
> I didnt order the paint the builder did(???) I never saw a sample of the color nor did I choose to use BM. I dont even have a color chart for BM as I never use them.
> 
> ...



Then its the builders problem, not yours.


----------



## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

941owassard said:


> Apparently I wasn't clear that me clarify.
> 
> I didnt order the paint the builder did(???) I never saw a sample of the color nor did I choose to use BM. I dont even have a color chart for BM as I never use them.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you have two layers of incompetence occurring (the builder ordering the paint and the BM guy making it) between you and the correct color for the job.
From what you say, the builder should be the one to pay for your repaint since he ordered the product and didn't confirm it was correct. 
I do some sub work although I dislike being subordinate to the lead carpenter since I'm used to dealing with the HOs directly. With that said, I understand the remodeling firm's need for that level of control and having a buffer between the workers and owners. If they didn't, every sub on the job would be peppering the HO with questions and the supervisor wouldn't know what the hell was going on. In these situations it's rare that I get to discuss colors directly with the HO so I always have the lead carpenter, or whoever is supervising, sign off on the colors and sheens twice: 
The first time when the LC tells me what to get. 
The second is on the drawn down I have the paint store do on the tinted paint.
I also insist on ordering my own paint. With these procedure's in place, my butt's covered if something goes wrong. If the outfit's professional, they won't complain about it since they'll realize you're only doing your job and trying to confirm everything is correct before you begin. The remodeling companies I work with actually appreciate it.
I recently did a job for a remodeling firm and followed that procedure. Later, after I had completed the painting, the shower stall walls were installed and it turned out the colors of those didn't match the samples the HOs had been shown. So now the two bathrooms' original colors didn't go well with shower stalls. This was a situation where the paint colors were correct but since the shower stalls were wrong, the HO was still unhappy with the end result. Not my fault but I still felt better about having that level of accountability (the sign offs) between me and a p----d HO. In this situation the builder and the tile company doing the shower stalls ended up splitting the cost for the repaint. IMO they got off lightly since they could have been asked to completely redo the two shower stalls which would have been much more expensive.
They say the biggest complaint from HOs about the construction trade is lack of communication. Failure to confirm and not getting sign offs is a big part of that.


----------



## Slopmeyer (Aug 2, 2009)

Well I wrote a whole long reply to you all, but I guess I didn't post it properly. Thats try again.

I don't use BM nor do I have a color chart for them therefore I never saw a sample to check it(I never had to check anything from Sherwin Williams)
It all comes down to BM whoring itself out to ANY idiot store willing to pay, With a bunch of moron employees with no clue about painting or mixing of paint.


----------



## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

941owassard said:


> Well I wrote a whole long reply to you all, but I guess I didn't post it properly. Thats try again.
> 
> I don't use BM nor do I have a color chart for them therefore I never saw a sample to check it(I never had to check anything from Sherwin Williams)
> It all comes down to BM whoring itself out to ANY idiot store willing to pay, With a bunch of moron employees with no clue about painting or mixing of paint.


You don't have a chart? Well if I were you I would drive to a store and get one....

"Sorry officer that I was speeding but I didn't see a speed limit sign, nor could i be bothered looking for one, so its your problem not mine"

You blame everyone and everything except yourself.


----------



## 4ThGeneration (Apr 17, 2007)

Funny I just had a issue with Sherwin Williams today. I went to pick up a gallon of Cashmere and when the guy finished the product mixing he came over to me and the contractor next to me, handed us our products and said have a nice day. I said I would if you would have given me the correct product. I told him I am a custom painter and do not use that crap Master Hide. 

The look on the other contractors face: 

The look on the counter guy: 

The look on my face: :thumbsup:


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

NCPaint1 said:


> You don't have a chart? Well if I were you I would drive to a store and get one....
> 
> "Sorry officer that I was speeding but I didn't see a speed limit sign, nor could i be bothered looking for one, so its your problem not mine"
> 
> You blame everyone and everything except yourself.


This is America, its always some others fault.


----------



## bwpainting (Jun 1, 2011)

4ThGeneration said:


> Funny I just had a issue with Sherwin Williams today. I went to pick up a gallon of Cashmere and when the guy finished the product mixing he came over to me and the contractor next to me, handed us our products and said have a nice day. I said I would if you would have given me the correct product. I told him I am a custom painter and do not use that crap Master Hide.
> 
> The look on the other contractors face:
> 
> ...


Funny ****e!


----------



## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

4ThGeneration said:


> Funny I just had a issue with Sherwin Williams today. I went to pick up a gallon of Cashmere and when the guy finished the product mixing he came over to me and the contractor next to me, handed us our products and said have a nice day. I said I would if you would have given me the correct product. I told him I am a custom painter and do not use that crap Master Hide.
> 
> The look on the other contractors face:
> 
> ...


 Paint Nazi!


----------



## 4ThGeneration (Apr 17, 2007)

aaron61 said:


> Paint Nazi!



I have always been taught to hit em hard and make sure they are down for the count lol.


----------



## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

Just about done with this project, All Aura :thumbsup: low luster on siding and the semi gloss on the trim.

Pat


----------



## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Looking sweet Pat! :thumbup1:


----------



## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

941owassard said:


> Apparently I wasn't clear that me clarify.
> 
> And BM is partially reponsible because they let these morons sell there product with pretty much no training. But it is the hardware stores responsiblity to compensate me as they were supposed to put 5. of OY in and the guy put 5 full pumps in....



"OY" is the food industries code for mayonnaise. That is where it all went wrong. Do they sell hot dogs at this hardware store? Did someone steal NC's hot dog idea?


----------



## Juker555 (Jun 20, 2011)

I ALWAYS BOX ALL MY PAINT FOR ANY PROJECT, never had any problems after I started


----------

