# SW Wood Classics Sealer and Varnishes



## paratrooper (Mar 6, 2009)

What is your opinion of:

Wood Classics FastDry Sanding Sealer 
http://www.sherwin-williams.com/pro..._coatings/wood_stains_sealers_clear_topcoats/

Wood Classics FastDry Oil Varnish
http://www.sherwin-williams.com/pro..._coatings/wood_stains_sealers_clear_topcoats/

Wood Classics Polyurethane Varnish
http://www.sherwin-williams.com/pro..._coatings/wood_stains_sealers_clear_topcoats/


How do you apply them?
Do you modify them?
How do they perform in production (new construction) wood finishing?
What are your experiences with these?


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

fast dry varnish was kind of a turd, but S.W. isn't my first choice for clear coats so I wasn't expecting too much.
Wood classics is a good heavy body stain line up for doing faux work, but not much else imho.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

I have about the same views Wise. Their Poly varnish isn't bad, but I'd rather use it for the last coat and use another product for the base coats. The other thing about the Woodscapes stain is that it really isn't compatible with any of the tint systems available for on-site use. I mostly use SW's alcohol based stains.


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## sage (Apr 29, 2007)

The poly varnish is durable, the label even states it can be used on floors. I usually dilute first coat with thinner and apply straight second coat on new construction. I use it on trim, cabinets and small floor jobs.
Wolfgang is right about the Woodscapes.


Wolfgang what is the name of alcohol base stains from SW?
Sage


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## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

I think he is referring to their BAC stains.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Lambrecht said:


> I think he is referring to their BAC stains.


Yep. About the only thing I ever use. Easy to tint.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Wood Classics FastDry Sanding Sealer 
Expensive
Not bad on NC. 
For Pine leave stock
For Poplar reduce for the first coat assuming you'll do 3 (2 sealer 1 finish)
You can leave it stock on poplar just means tons more course sanding in one step which often leads to burnout.
Many guys do stain, seal, sand and seal (done) Some stain, seal, sand and varnish

Wood Classics FastDry Oil Varnish
Ok to spray with HVLP slightly reduced, do not like it to brush. Brushing needs to be specific. Try not to get ahead of yourself. It layers and does not blend well into itself. Heavy. Best to reduce. Can mix 50/50 with other sheens. We did 1:1 satin/gloss

Wood Classics Polyurethane Varnish
Used it, do not remember anything about it beside it was glossy. 

Do it Best brands is SW sanding sealer too, very similar and I find it was nice to work with.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

I've posted this before concerning clear WB finishes, but if you want to get an even sheen finish - say a satin - do the first couple coats in a higher gloss, and your satin as a final coat. Saw this on Old Yankee Workshop, (Norm Abrams), years ago, and darned if he wasn't right. I always use a new container of finish for my final coats, using already opened containers for the first few.


BTW: Norm is always right! LOL


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I thought building with gloss was to avoid cloudiness. When build with gloss, how many coats of gloss and the final sheen do you do?


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Dean, this is going to sound odd but I do my first two coats with Varathane Diamond WB floor poly, usually in a gloss. The reason is that it gives a great hi-build and sealing properties. After that it's usually one coat of the desired sheen finish, and I don't, nor have ever had a problem using one mfgs WB over another.

There are times when I'll use the flooring grade throughout the whole process, particularly where it may be exposed to high amounts of moisture or regular cleaning with sanitizers, ie; Drs or dentists offices. I've never had any product failure or loss of sheen integrity with this product.

I like the SW product and the Ceramithane because the both have a thicker consistency and work well with either a brush or spray.

In another thread, they were talking about nibs in the finish and the only time I have ever encountered that was when the prior coats didn't cure properly and were sanded. The pores where it wasn't dried and cured will automatically cause the final coat to raise up with the nibs. We all try to push the envelope on getting the job done, but some things just take time....and should be charged for accordingly.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I can see a floor finish working well for that stuff. Varathane is pretty readily available as well. I am surprised you consider Ceramathane thick, to me that is a thin, low-building material. StayClear is thick.

I tried a product my MidAmerica Coatings that goes on at 6 mils wet. It seems decent, but 3 coats on a flat surface starts looking a bit milky in satin. Probably have to do gloss for the first coat with that product for certain. They have another one I tried on Alder (WB) that was glossier in the sample (almost a full gloss), but that one popped the grain better than other WB finishes. It is a thinner product and the first 2 coats soaked into to alder pretty good. 

I really want to get a WB system that adds that life to wood that the solvent stuff does as much as possible.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

I am always amazed at the wise input I get from you Wolfgang. I am a stain grade man at heart and it is always cool to hear someone you have come to respect giving out personal nuggets of gold like you continually do. I'm writing this to reinforce the fact that you have SOLID advice for anyone out there reading this and questioning this methodology.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Wolf, have you tried Diamond on poplar as a first coat? Also, how does it sand? We keep seeing less and less real wood. Our rail systems are now metal spindles with wood rail and newels.


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## SWGuy (Jun 26, 2009)

Wood Classics Sealer = good
Wood Classics Varnish = not so good


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

I'm in no way stating I'm the sharpest tool in the shed when it comes to this stuff, I just know what has worked very well for me....and once I find something that works, I stick with it. Out of all the aspects of the trade, I'd like to think I found my niche on the wood finishing side. I think Scott, (VP) has also done well with his pre-finishing set-up, so I wouldn't hesitate to use his advice either.

Jack, to answer your questions, it works great for all woods, I have even used it as a water-resistant coating over painted beadboard around a tub. It sands nicely, but just like any WB poly, you have to make sure it is fully dry.....otherwise, well you know what happens. Once it is fully cured the stuff is like iron. I have the high-gloss WB floor Varathane on my oak floors through out the house, and besides people traffic, we've had two big dogs. Held up great so far. (If it makes it through the new Wiemaraner pup, I'll be really impressed. LOL)


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

One more tip, if I may, concerning application of the product. Don't laugh now, but those little ceiling edgers that have the wheels that HO's love for cutting in? - they make great little applicators for the first coats on flat trim, small floor areas, and flat surfaces. Seriously. Look at the composition of the pad that comes with them and then look at the WB flooring applicator pads....same thing.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Wolfgang said:


> I'm in no way stating I'm the sharpest tool in the shed when it comes to this stuff, I just know what has worked very well for me....and once I find something that works, I stick with it. Out of all the aspects of the trade, I'd like to think I found my niche on the wood finishing side. I think Scott, (VP) has also done well with his pre-finishing set-up, so I wouldn't hesitate to use his advice either.
> 
> Jack, to answer your questions, it works great for all woods, I have even used it as a water-resistant coating over painted beadboard around a tub. It sands nicely, but just like any WB poly, you have to make sure it is fully dry.....otherwise, well you know what happens. Once it is fully cured the stuff is like iron. I have the high-gloss WB floor Varathane on my oak floors through out the house, and besides people traffic, we've had two big dogs. Held up great so far. (If it makes it through the new Wiemaraner pup, I'll be really impressed. LOL)



Wolf

I have done a similar sequence for a number of years, on everything from floors, cabinets, countertops to woodwork. Laying down 2, 3, 4 coats of a high gloss, then topping off with a couple of satin. (You have to SAND between coats when working with WOOD, Paul) It works great on wood countertops too. I do it with oil on oil, wb on wb and have even been improvising different combos of finish systems for different species of wood. For instance, in the building and finishing of our new shop, I came up with a system for clear pine interior trim that I'd never put together before and darned if it isnt about the best I've improvised. 

I've not used the sw products.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

DeanV said:


> I can see a floor finish working well for that stuff. Varathane is pretty readily available as well. I am surprised you consider Ceramathane thick, to me that is a thin, low-building material. StayClear is thick.
> 
> I tried a product my MidAmerica Coatings that goes on at 6 mils wet. It seems decent, but 3 coats on a flat surface starts looking a bit milky in satin. Probably have to do gloss for the first coat with that product for certain. They have another one I tried on Alder (WB) that was glossier in the sample (almost a full gloss), but that one popped the grain better than other WB finishes. It is a thinner product and the first 2 coats soaked into to alder pretty good.
> 
> I really want to get a WB system that adds that life to wood that the solvent stuff does as much as possible.


Too much too fast. You're not letting it dry enough between coats Dean. Put your first coat on the thin side, it should dry pretty quick. The second coat can go on thicker. Let fully dry, sand, wipe down with a dry damp cloth, lightly tack cloth, put on the final coat.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> Wolf
> 
> I have done a similar sequence for a number of years, on everything from floors, cabinets, countertops to woodwork. Laying down 2, 3, 4 coats of a high gloss, then topping off with a couple of satin. (You have to SAND between coats when working with WOOD, Paul) It works great on wood countertops too. I do it with oil on oil, wb on wb and have even been improvising different combos of finish systems for different species of wood. For instance, in the building and finishing of our new shop, I came up with a system for clear pine interior trim that I'd never put together before and darned if it isnt about the best I've improvised.
> 
> I've not used the sw products.


Scott, I haven't used SW exclusively either for WB finish coats. I know that you've used quite a few different makes and combos in your business, and have no problem in using some of the newer and pricier products....which is why I referenced your name in this thread.:thumbsup: I would have to honestly say that if I needed advice on something relating to wood finishing, I wouldn't hesitate to ask you.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Wolfgang said:


> One more tip, if I may, concerning application of the product. Don't laugh now, but those little ceiling edgers that have the wheels that HO's love for cutting in? - they make great little applicators for the first coats on flat trim, small floor areas, and flat surfaces. Seriously. Look at the composition of the pad that comes with them and then look at the WB flooring applicator pads....same thing.



I have often used the bigger pads like that that attach to those red handles. The green foam with very short white bristle things. For laying down WB clear on flat surfaces, they are awesome. Lay it on, tip it off once and DO NOT GO BACK. Best way to finish flat stuff short of spraying.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Exactly. Those you described are a little bigger, but the same thing. Say what you want about the box stores, but sometimes walking through the aisles can trigger a few out of the box thoughts on adapting stuff.


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## paratrooper (Mar 6, 2009)

Has anyone experimented with dewaxed shellac as a sealer with varnish topcoat? Many of the 'old timers' used a process similar to what I've heard described in the previous posts: a few coats of gloss followed by a few coats of satin oil varnish; or shellac followed by a few coats of satin oil varnish. The varnish I used for a base was discontinued this past year. I have a precious stockpile in my basement, but I should work on a new system. I like to follow any staining with at least three coats of finish. I like to apply oil varnish by hand. I appreciate the reccomendations and will be experimenting within the next few months.


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