# picture framing



## dim715 (Feb 22, 2010)

i had a problem with picture framing occuring last week.only once has this happened to me.i rolled and cut twice 3 rooms and my cut ins from wall to ceiling are showing up.i did my roll and cut in same day and am looking for an opinion on best option to fix this since ive got paid already.


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## tsunamicontract (May 3, 2008)

I have never had Aura picture frame on me. Cut around the edge starting in one corner, by the time i get back there the cut has dried and I can roll. Behr flat will picture frame no matter what you do it seems. What paint were you using? Any unusual circumstances?


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## dim715 (Feb 22, 2010)

i used sw pro mar 200.homeowner didnt want to pay for prime coat.it was new drywall.ive done many houses where ho didnt want to pay for prime just 2 coats but never had a problem.2 coats roll and brush usually in my case never picture framed but this for some reason is


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## tsunamicontract (May 3, 2008)

dim715 said:


> i used sw pro mar 200.homeowner didnt want to pay for prime coat.it was new drywall.ive done many houses where ho didnt want to pay for prime just 2 coats but never had a problem.2 coats roll and brush usually in my case never picture framed but this for some reason is


At least you answered the mystery there. First off, you are the professional. I would never agree to do this. The least I have done is one coat primer one coat paint. I wouldn't do this with 200 either as I am not wild about that stuff.


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## dim715 (Feb 22, 2010)

warned her but must fix regardless for she is the mother in law of gc i do work for.


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## Thomas P (Jun 17, 2009)

when cutting and rolling I always cut one wall and roll it before going to the next especially on finish coat. As far as using pm 200 I would never use it on unprimed drywall. It is a decent product but if your not priming I would insist on duration. It is self priming and I have never had a problem with it picture framing.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

dim715 said:


> i used sw pro mar 200.homeowner didnt want to pay for prime coat.it was new drywall.ive done many houses where ho didnt want to pay for prime just 2 coats but never had a problem.2 coats roll and brush usually in my case never picture framed but this for some reason is


Some advice from a lowballer. i just did a house last week with promar 200 .

No primer, sprayed the walls, used a shield on the cieling (it was stomp), shielded the ceiling a second time. It was done, no picture framing. It was just done. Brushed the trim, since it was this type of a lowball job, it didn't call for sprayed trim.

If your gonna do it cheap, ya got to change the way ya do things,, okay???:thumbsup:


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## dim715 (Feb 22, 2010)

yeah spraying would be nice if there wasnt furniture,hardwood floors,and people living inside.also if i were to spray with ho living in house it would be a no voc paint.as i said done ive done plenty of jobs like this but only second time its happened.this month ive done 11000 sq ft of work and no problems.sometimes crazy things happen and i am trying to find an easy solution to get this quickly fixed.pretty much a favor so i didnt charge much b/c she didnt want to fork out money.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

dim715 said:


> i had a problem with picture framing occuring last week.only once has this happened to me.i rolled and cut twice 3 rooms and my cut ins from wall to ceiling are showing up.i did my roll and cut in same day and am looking for an opinion on best option to fix this since ive got paid already.


Yes I understand this is not the right way to do things....but...and a big BUT...it does work most of the time in lower sheened paints. My best guess as to why its picture framing is the color.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

dim715 said:


> yeah spraying would be nice if there wasnt furniture,hardwood floors,and people living inside.also if i were to spray with ho living in house it would be a no voc paint.as i said done ive done plenty of jobs like this but only second time its happened.this month ive done 11000 sq ft of work and no problems.sometimes crazy things happen and i am trying to find an easy solution to get this quickly fixed.pretty much a favor so i didnt charge much b/c she didnt want to fork out money.


Oh man,,, I know how this is gonna go, but when i have to do a job like that, I use valspar, cause the CHEAP piant blends WAY WAY better than the GOOD paint.

I asked a paint rep about that once, and he told me its cause the cheap paint has more clay in it. Don't know if thats why, but i know that it does.


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## dim715 (Feb 22, 2010)

although i am going to hate this but im going to roll and cut in again hopefully this works or get primer tinted to colr and top coat over it.bleh ill just suck it up unless there is a special magician here that will save me time.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

dim715 said:


> although i am going to hate this but im going to roll and cut in again hopefully this works or get primer tinted to colr and top coat over it.bleh ill just suck it up unless there is a special magician here that will save me time.


Just a thought,,, this time, cut in one wall at a time, as soon as you get done rolling, cut in while its still wet,,,, this even works for the GOOD paints.

I know this sounds like a smartass, but DON"T let it set,, cut it in RIGHT NOW


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## vandy (Apr 22, 2010)

what sheen?

what color?

i bet i know. just curious.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

tsunamicontract said:


> At least you answered the mystery there. First off, you are the professional. I would never agree to do this. The least I have done is one coat primer one coat paint. I wouldn't do this with 200 either as I am not wild about that stuff.


 
That would be debatable:whistling2:


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## i painter (Mar 14, 2010)

Before you go re-rolling the whole thing, pick up a mini roller. Roll as tight as you can and feather it out. It's saved me one or two complete re-rolls before. 

If you did it properly the first time, due to product failure, you might have gotten SW to cover the cost of the re-roll or at the very least the paint. Since you didn't, you're SOL on that route. 

One thing I've found, the cheaper it is for the customer, the more expensive it is for me. 

Would it really be cheaper to two coat in finish as opposed to one coat tinted primer and one coat finish? Last I checked, primer is less expensive that finish. Even a cheap primer is better than no primer.

I hope you can save it w/o a re-roll.


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## [email protected] (Mar 1, 2008)

A lot of times I use a 4" wooster mini roller (has Its own cage) and roll with the cut line so that there is just a 1/2" plus of brush work that was brush then roll the wall.


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## TheRogueBristle (Mar 19, 2010)

Using the mini-roller as close to the cut in line was my first thought as well


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## dim715 (Feb 22, 2010)

thank you gentlemen for the help.yes miniroller was definetely on list.its just that the living room has so many windows with light just beaming in that shows the framing so bad.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

tsunamicontract said:


> At least you answered the mystery there. First off, you are the professional. I would never agree to do this. The least I have done is one coat primer one coat paint. I wouldn't do this with 200 either as I am not wild about that stuff.


Only thing we prime is something raw like drywall,wood,stucco or a dark color.Why would you need to prime walls that are already painted?? 2 coats of anything ought to cover. I'm just curious as to the reason for priming??


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## i painter (Mar 14, 2010)

aaron61 said:


> Only thing we prime is something raw like drywall,wood,stucco or a dark color.Why would you need to prime walls that are already painted?? 2 coats of anything ought to cover. I'm just curious as to the reason for priming??





dim715 said:


> i used sw pro mar 200.homeowner didnt want to pay for prime coat.*it was new drywall*.ive done many houses where ho didnt want to pay for prime just 2 coats but never had a problem.2 coats roll and brush usually in my case never picture framed but this for some reason is


Should have primed.


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## Thomas P (Jun 17, 2009)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Just a thought,,, this time, cut in one wall at a time, as soon as you get done rolling, cut in while its still wet,,,, this even works for the GOOD paints.
> 
> I know this sounds like a smartass, but DON"T let it set,, cut it in RIGHT NOW


just another though, the "professional"way would be to cut the wall first and then roll it out then move to the next wall. That way your roller stipple covers as much of the brush lines as possible.


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## VanDamme (Feb 13, 2010)

*"No primer, sprayed the walls, used a shield on the cieling (it was stomp), shielded the ceiling a second time. It was done, no picture framing."*

So.....you just sprayed two coats finish paint w/no backrolling? Was it smooth wall or textured? I assume the stomp texture is on the ceiling?

Do you use a sanding pole between coats? How did it look?


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## capitalcity painting (Apr 28, 2008)

VanDamme said:


> *"No primer, sprayed the walls, used a shield on the cieling (it was stomp), shielded the ceiling a second time. It was done, no picture framing."*
> 
> So.....you just sprayed two coats finish paint w/no backrolling? Was it smooth wall or textured? I assume the stomp texture is on the ceiling?
> 
> Do you use a sanding pole between coats? How did it look?



It looked like he was trying to make money at $1.00 sq ft.


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## capitalcity painting (Apr 28, 2008)

Should of primed. Aaron I think he said it was bare drywall thats why they said to prime. Definitely should of primed with all those windows. Also Duration Home is not self priming that is the exterior stuff only. There is however a 200 line that is self priming but I have not used it and considering that many contractors dont even know it exist and its been out for a while its probably not very good.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> since it was this type of a lowball job, it didn't call for sprayed trim.


This is an interesting statement. I charge more to brush doors and jambs then I do to spray them, unles the conditions to spray are not an option without a lot of extra masking and then I would just charge my brush price and brush them.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

Workaholic said:


> This is an interesting statement. I charge more to brush doors and jambs then I do to spray them, unles the conditions to spray are not an option without a lot of extra masking and then I would just charge my brush price and brush them.


Work, I sell a service. Alot of folks take exception to that. The GC wanted a NC done for 1.35. Therefore, no primer. I sprayed the walls, shielded the ceiling and trim. The trim was pre-primed(with that crappy stuff they do it with). Yes thats correct, ome coat, no primer. I brushed the trim because I was only spraying the walls once. They feel fine, no grit. After I sprayed the walls, I caulked all the trim, heavy, setting my "cut" line with caulk. So I could brush the trim fast, no skill needed there. I understand that this is not the best way to paint a house, but i did a 1680 sq/ft in 5 days. Good enough for me and the GC loves it. After doing like 150 of these in the same devision, I think he's fairly well satisfied. I prefer to DO IT RIGHT, but I give em what they want. However I don't give em a 3.00 job for 1.35


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Work, I sell a service. Alot of folks take exception to that. The GC wanted a NC done for 1.35. Therefore, no primer. I sprayed the walls, shielded the ceiling and trim. The trim was pre-primed(with that crappy stuff they do it with). Yes thats correct, ome coat, no primer. I brushed the trim because I was only spraying the walls once. They feel fine, no grit. After I sprayed the walls, I caulked all the trim, heavy, setting my "cut" line with caulk. So I could brush the trim fast, no skill needed there. I understand that this is not the best way to paint a house, but i did a 1680 sq/ft in 5 days. Good enough for me and the GC loves it. After doing like 150 of these in the same devision, I think he's fairly well satisfied. I prefer to DO IT RIGHT, but I give em what they want. However I don't give em a 3.00 job for 1.35


I understand that Capt, I was just commenting on the spray trim is more $ than brushed trim. I do a good bit of NC and have for years and the trim gets sprayed except for the windows and top layer of crown. If I was asked to brush the trim for the same dollar figure I would explain that it takes me longer to brush doors and jambs then it does to spray them so the cost would be higher. I can understand a job where the scheduling was done poorly but would still expect and explain why a higher dollar figure is given to brush trim than spray the trim. That is why my comment about price being higher for sprayed trim. 

I was not taking a jab at your way of doing things, I was just surprised you saw it that way. I understand that a 1.35 jobs have to have some corners cut to turn a profit. I myself would not want to trust the factory primer with a topcoat but that is just me.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Yeah, we don't know what the color is, that is usually the problem. The biggest problem I ever had with PF is when we tried to match a very dark green color that was almost black. We tried to match the color in several different paint brands and never got it to work good.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

dim715 said:


> i used sw pro mar 200.homeowner didnt want to pay for prime coat.it was new drywall.ive done many houses where ho didnt want to pay for prime just 2 coats but never had a problem.2 coats roll and brush usually in my case never picture framed but this for some reason is


 Don't understand what you guys love about pro mar really. Super spec is a much better paint, and pretty much the same price. I am gonna have to second coat a ceiling tomorrow on a repaint, white over white because of this very thing. 

It also stinks to hell, HO complained first thing because it was so strong. Her exact words were why didn't you use the same paint from when you did our addition.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

*You have to read the lables or look it up online. Here is some specs cut and pasted from S/W's site. this is for Pro Mar 200


SPECIFICATIONS​**Drywall​*1 ct. ProMar 200 Latex Primer​2 cts. ProMar 200 Interior Latex Flat


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Next time use this:

Pro Mar 200 XP


Product Literature (PDF 358KB)

Delivers high-build, uniform finish direct-to-drywall in one less coat. Available in eg-shel or a new flat finish.
*Features:*


Provides tremendous hide — no primer needed
Minimizes drywall fuzz
Conceals minor surface imperfections
Hides differences in mud porosity
Save a coat to save time and money


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## Bighead (Nov 28, 2008)

Just re-cut one of the walls again and see what happens. We always cut twice then roll twice, never had a problem in 15 years.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

Workaholic said:


> I understand that Capt, I was just commenting on the spray trim is more $ than brushed trim. I do a good bit of NC and have for years and the trim gets sprayed except for the windows and top layer of crown. If I was asked to brush the trim for the same dollar figure I would explain that it takes me longer to brush doors and jambs then it does to spray them so the cost would be higher. I can understand a job where the scheduling was done poorly but would still expect and explain why a higher dollar figure is given to brush trim than spray the trim. That is why my comment about price being higher for sprayed trim.
> 
> I was not taking a jab at your way of doing things, I was just surprised you saw it that way. I understand that a 1.35 jobs have to have some corners cut to turn a profit. I myself would not want to trust the factory primer with a topcoat but that is just me.


I understand that Work, but in this cheap senario, One brush on the trim, and one coat on the wall. It works quicker and better. It ain't like they were looking for the RIGHT way to do it. 

I prefer to spray the walls with primer (tinted ifin thats an option), then spray the trim, sand the walls, power roll the second coat and cut in, leaveing a REAL cut line. But this was a Blow and Go job.

I have said before, I can give it to you right, or I can give it to you right now, you can't have both.:thumbsup:


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

Workaholic said:


> This is an interesting statement. I charge more to brush doors and jambs then I do to spray them, unles the conditions to spray are not an option without a lot of extra masking and then I would just charge my brush price and brush them.


I agree, if we are compareing apples to apples,,, But this was a blow and go NC job, so I caulked the trim heavy, meaning the caulk run on the wall, setting a straight line, even if it was on the wall. Then a fly by brush on the trim with a 3" brush finishes it up. Its way quicker than real brushing, but does the job for the GC's.

disclaimer: I in no way purpose this for a REAL paint job, but it works for Blow and GO :notworthy:


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

Thomas P said:


> just another though, the "professional"way would be to cut the wall first and then roll it out then move to the next wall. That way your roller stipple covers as much of the brush lines as possible.


Agreed, but we are not talking about real painting here, we are talking about NC


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

VanDamme said:


> *"No primer, sprayed the walls, used a shield on the cieling (it was stomp), shielded the ceiling a second time. It was done, no picture framing."*
> 
> So.....you just sprayed two coats finish paint w/no backrolling? Was it smooth wall or textured? I assume the stomp texture is on the ceiling?
> 
> Do you use a sanding pole between coats? How did it look?


No, I back rolled. You got to back roll, no matter HOW many coats you put on.

I only sprayed ONE coat of paint, backrolled it, then shielded again the second time(ceiling line and baseboard).


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## VanDamme (Feb 13, 2010)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> No, I back rolled. You got to back roll, no matter HOW many coats you put on.
> 
> I only sprayed ONE coat of paint, backrolled it, then shielded again the second time(ceiling line and baseboard).


Gotcha! Didn't (at first) realize you were doing NC. I did the same in a tract of 37 new houses......Spray and backroll one coat on walls and ceilings. Same color. Looked like sh** to me, but everyone else was happy. :thumbsup:


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## Thomas P (Jun 17, 2009)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Agreed, but we are not talking about real painting here, we are talking about NC


I understand that, but we are also talking about a problem with picture framing and when you run into problems no matter what type of work you are doing you have to do what you know is correct to at least try and solve the problem.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

Thomas P said:


> I understand that, but we are also talking about a problem with picture framing and when you run into problems no matter what type of work you are doing you have to do what you know is correct to at least try and solve the problem.


I understand that,,, for sure,,, but I have found that the more exspensive the paint,,, the more problems you have with cutting in with a brush behind or in front of the roller. I just can't understand for the life of me, why the better the paint, the worse it is !!!!!!

Way too much for a ******* to understand !!!!

Ya know,,, the pros HATE valspar and Behr, but they cut in, behind or in front, with no prob. Beats me,,,,,,,, Back to my beer now


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## boman47k (May 10, 2008)

I seem to have gotten the habit of cutting part of a wall in then rolling that part. My reasoning is to keep the paint wet.

Also, I may have primed the walls. The sheen, color change, and general conditon of the wall would have decided this for me.

I guess you could try the mini roller in one room or on one wall with the same sie nap as you used to roll the walls and kind of feather it out.

Did you tip the cutin of for were you heavy on the brush from first to last stroke? I tend to just tip it off on the last stroke of the brush. My last stroke also ends in the wet paint. It seems being heavy on the brush when cutting in leaves shiney area.s or too heavy paint. I also feather my cutin sometimes leaving no distinct line of heavy paint. Maybe it fools the eye if I get it a little heavy/thicker. Depends on how the paint and or brush is performing.

I haven't used the new BM paint where you let it dry then come back and cut in.

The switching back and forth between the brush and the roller may be a little hectic, but some these paints start setting up pretty quick and I try to keep the cutin and field wet when blending them into one and another.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

Not sure why all the fuss about this, If you told here about the primer and she did not want to pay then its pretty simple. This is what you get lady.. If you want it fixed then it will cost you a extra coat. Who freaking cares about what relationship she has with a GC you work for. A simple explanation of what happened and I'm sure the GC will understand. If he likes your work and prices I doubt he will stop using u. if so then fook him.

Now if you did not say anything about the primer, were trying to give her the nice "thanks" type of price then its on you. Just go roll another coat, bring here some donuts and all will be good.

Pat


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## capitalcity painting (Apr 28, 2008)

Capt, I think the reason the better paints picture frame so bad is what they put in them to make them washable. Duration Home Matte can be a pain in the ass, especially if your going in behind someone that sprayed 1 coat of paint and no primer :whistling2:. Seriously though thats what it seems to me.


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## Goodasitgets (Jan 7, 2022)

dim715 said:


> i had a problem with picture framing occuring last week.only once has this happened to me.i rolled and cut twice 3 rooms and my cut ins from wall to ceiling are showing up.i did my roll and cut in same day and am looking for an opinion on best option to fix this since ive got paid already.was it satin,semi,eggshell.never prime raw drywall with any of these!


Was it semi,satin,eggshell.never put these on raw drywall.


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## Knobbe (Mar 14, 2021)

dim715 said:


> warned her but must fix regardless for she is the mother in law of gc i do work for.


I would of asked your GC to intervene and explain to Ms. know-it-all this will not go well. New drywall, no primer, cheap paint = perfect storm.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Goodasitgets said:


> Was it semi,satin,eggshell.never put these on raw drywall.


Little late to the party guys. Thread is 12 years old. Pay attention to dates. Just sayin!


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

Not to mention this is a PROFESSIONAL forum.. I think us professionals know when use primer.....

Most of us also know that ProMar 200 picture frames more times than not, no matter how good the wall was primed.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

dim715 said:


> warned her but must fix regardless for she is the mother in law of gc i do work for.


Guess you gotta do what you gotta do, but it fries my butt to hear of a professional having to eat any part of a job because a HO refused to pay for what is considered SOP.

Guess you’ll have to write this one off as the cost of a learnable lesson.


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