# Shellac or B-I-N?



## Humble Abode (Apr 11, 2007)

I don't think it matters either way, but which do you prefer for sealing knots in exterior wood and why?

What situation would you use one or the other and why? 

I am asking in relation to siding that is going to be coated with an acrylic stain. The previous painters (CollagePro, go figure :whistling2: ) didn't honor the knots and there is some discoloration that I will need to take care of, obviously, before I apply the topcoat.

Normally I would just use B-I-N. All I want is to use the best available product.


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

AFAIK, BIN is a shellac.


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## Humble Abode (Apr 11, 2007)

I know. That's what I was getting at, WTH is the difference? Is it simply the tint ability?


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## Humble Abode (Apr 11, 2007)

ProWallGuy said:


> AFAIK, BIN is a shellac.


 
And more importantly WTH does AFAIK mean? :lol:


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## slickshift (Apr 8, 2007)

B-I-N is a white pigmented shellac

It's the only one I use for sealing knots
I've not tried the SWP product

I've not used non-pigmented shellac for that purpose


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

Humble Abode said:


> And more importantly WTH does AFAIK mean? :lol:


As far as I know.........


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## wmass (Apr 17, 2007)

I would use white pigmented if it were a lighter color and clear if it was a darker color now and you were going to recoat witha dark color.


Steve


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## Brushslingers (Apr 11, 2007)

Stain.. soild body? I'd use clear in that case. I normally only use clear for sealing plaster before a repair.


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## Humble Abode (Apr 11, 2007)

wmass said:


> I would use white pigmented if it were a lighter color and clear if it was a darker color now and you were going to recoat witha dark color.
> Steve


Why?



Brushslingers said:


> Stain.. soild body? I'd use clear in that case. I normally only use clear for sealing plaster before a repair.


And, Why?

Thank you!


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

I use clear shellac as I found it did not flash where BIN pigmented seem to flash with solid body stain. I use Cabot provt and have no flashing with clear shellac.


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## Humble Abode (Apr 11, 2007)

It is a solid body stain BTW I didn't realize I didn't post that info.

That's good to know about the flashing with solid stains.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

if your doing two coats flashing usually is not a problem. A lot of my exteriors the last few yrs are re paints that I did 6-8 yrs ago. So color change there is not so one coat of provt and its good to go. (after cleaning of coarse)


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## Paintwerks (Apr 22, 2007)

I agree with MAK about the white pigmented shellac flashing. Havent tried the clear yet thanks for the tip. When you say clear shellac are you talking about the Bullseye Shellac for interior wood or something different.

Thanks Dan


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## Humble Abode (Apr 11, 2007)

I was talking about the Zinsser clear Shellac, the spec sheet says it works for sealing knots. 

http://www.zinsser.com/PDF/TDB/BE_SHLLAC.pdf


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

Thats what I use, I am not sure if its for interior only but I have had good success with it outside. I was told that tip from a old paint contractor that used the mom and pop store I used to use where my old house was before I moved two years ago.


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## Brushslingers (Apr 11, 2007)

Yes, the clear tends to seal and not flash on exterior stains better than pigmented, but on the other hand doesn't seem to seal stains under paints on interiors as good as pigmented... go figure.


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## Roadog (Apr 18, 2007)

Shellac has been used for hundreds of years for sealing knots. But in the old books it says to mix it. Most zinnser is 3 lb cut. If you want your clear to really seal, when the can has set for a while, take out a cup or two of fluid off the top, (alcohol) this gives you more concentrated shellac, less solvent. Not sure about BIN as I think there is less alcohol but more pigment than shellac.


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## Bushdude (Apr 17, 2007)

Humble Abode said:


> I don't think it matters either way, but which do you prefer for sealing knots in exterior wood and why?
> 
> What situation would you use one or the other and why?
> 
> ...


I would not recommend any type of shellac for exterior priming, as it does not hold up to moisture. I have been there and done that, trust me it is not good for exterior work.


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## Pete_E (Apr 27, 2007)

HA, ( funny,looking at that the HA wasn't suposed to be a laugh... It was just short for your name)

You are a Humble guy because I know (from what I've read of yours) that you know that there one-in-the-same. The thing that many painters don't think of, is that shellac doesn't hold up for long in the elements at all. The reason I know they don'r realize this is because of all the houses I've seen that are spotted. That means that they are dealing with the knots as a separate step, rather then along with the finishing step. Shellac whether clear or pigmented will start to break down when exposed to the sun within hours. The reason you see the knots peeling within a year or so, isn't because the knot is a harder wood or it's leaching tannins, it's because the shellac has lost it's bond.
Get your self one of those plastic coffee containers with a lid. Punch two holes in the can at the top of each side. Run a piece of string through to form a loop. Cut a slit in the lid, and slip in a 2" throw-a-way bruch through the slit, this keeps the shellac from drying out. Bring it up the latter with you and hang it with a hook. Kill the knots first and start painting. The shellac sets up in minuets, so that by time you get to them their'll be dry to paint/stain over. I've never had a problem.

Pete




Humble Abode said:


> I don't think it matters either way, but which do you prefer for sealing knots in exterior wood and why?
> 
> What situation would you use one or the other and why?
> 
> ...


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## Pete_E (Apr 27, 2007)

Don't mind the spelling. It's late and I typed it fast. Kidn-a hard to believe that I've been painting for 30 years and I spelled ladder with two t's. What can I say !!

re-Pete



Pete_E said:


> HA, ( funny,looking at that the HA wasn't suposed to be a laugh... It was just short for your name)
> 
> You are a Humble guy because I know (from what I've read of yours) that you know that there one-in-the-same. The thing that many painters don't think of, is that shellac doesn't hold up for long in the elements at all. The reason I know they don'r realize this is because of all the houses I've seen that are spotted. That means that they are dealing with the knots as a separate step, rather then along with the finishing step. Shellac whether clear or pigmented will start to break down when exposed to the sun within hours. The reason you see the knots peeling within a year or so, isn't because the knot is a harder wood or it's leaching tannins, it's because the shellac has lost it's bond.
> Get your self one of those plastic coffee containers with a lid. Punch two holes in the can at the top of each side. Run a piece of string through to form a loop. Cut a slit in the lid, and slip in a 2" throw-a-way bruch through the slit, this keeps the shellac from drying out. Bring it up the latter with you and hang it with a hook. Kill the knots first and start painting. The shellac sets up in minuets, so that by time you get to them their'll be dry to paint/stain over. I've never had a problem.
> ...


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## welovepainting (May 13, 2007)

Bushdude said:


> I would not recommend any type of shellac for exterior priming, as it does not hold up to moisture. I have been there and done that, trust me it is not good for exterior work.



I agree I would use a slow drying oil base primer as we do on all exteriors


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