# I can't...can you?



## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

I'm removing the failing caulk from this crown molding. The removal causes damage to the ceiling. I'm not able to remove the caulk without having to skim the ceiling around the perimeter. 

Could you?

The home owner wants it perfect. This is the only method (IMO) that will achieve that.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Seems like a lot of work for something that could likely be dealt with by careful removal of the existing caulk and a good job of putting in some new. Most customers would be more than fine with that. But, if they don't feel inclined to go that route I'm not sure of any other way than what you describe. It appears that there is no texture on the ceiling - correct?


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Try a heat gun to soften up the caulking. It's not the fastest way but has worked for me in the past.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

What does perfect mean..?


I would probably try to cut it out with a razor knife and re caulk it. The new bead would have to be big enough to cover any ceiling damage.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Jmayspaint said:


> What does perfect mean..?
> 
> 
> I would probably try to cut it out with a razor knife and re caulk it. The new bead would have to be big enough to cover any ceiling damage.


That would be the main issue in achieving a "perfect" look. Having to bring the new caulk out as far as the existing - which may come out much further than it ever should have - is what would likely turn this from a nice looking job to one that is sub-par.


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

RH said:


> Seems like a lot of work for something that could likely be dealt with by careful removal of the existing caulk and a good job of putting in some new. Most customers would be more than fine with that. But, if they don't feel inclined to go that route I'm not sure of any other way than what you describe. It appears that there is no texture on the ceiling - correct?


Smooth ceilings.

There is a faint ridge that is bugging me. You can see it after the caulk dries. The areas we skimmed look good.

Given the replies, I will continue to experiment tomorrow with these suggestions.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

I have to wonder what's to keep that from happening again.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Float the room.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

RH said:


> That would be the main issue in achieving a "perfect" look. Having to bring the new caulk out as far as the existing - which may come out much further than it ever should have - is what would likely turn this from a nice looking job to one that is sub-par.




Yeah, to get a 90* angle where crown meets wall, and have flawless sheetrock,you would most likely have to skim it. 

I believe I would try to curt it out as flush with the ceiling as possible. Probably never cut it flush enough to not show without damaging the ceiling. 

The other option is just removing an old narley bead of caulk and replacing with a fresh new one.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

I must be missing something cause what I'm looking at you caulk that crack smooth with the exhisting caulk in place and it ought look just fine. The caulk doesn't look like it is falling out to me. Looks like they tried to run to wide of a bead and it cracked down the middle is all when it was last dome. Pics on the screen sometimes are tricky though.


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

Oden said:


> I must be missing something cause what I'm looking at you caulk that crack smooth with the exhisting caulk in place and it ought look just fine. The caulk doesn't look like it is falling out to me. Looks like they tried to run to wide of a bead and it cracked down the middle is all when it was last dome. Pics on the screen sometimes are tricky though.


The pic doesn't represent how bad it looks. Most places are failing at the ceiling or at the trim.


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## Sir Mixalot (Sep 8, 2009)

Be sure to prime those areas before re-caulking. :thumbsup:


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

I try and stay away from the word perfect myself. It looks like you should up sell the ceiling repaint.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Workaholic said:


> I try and stay away from the word perfect myself. It looks like you should up sell the ceiling repaint.


Simple answers are not always appreciated. 

How ya been, Work?


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## bodean614 (May 31, 2011)

Is the ceiling trusses or is there a second story? 
Ceiling joist will lift in the winter time. And cause this to happen. Come summer you won't notice. Is this the house in Hyde park? Those are old and plaster?? All materials will expand and contract at different rates so a perm. Fix may be impossible.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

slinger58 said:


> Simple answers are not always appreciated.
> 
> How ya been, Work?


Simple answers are what they are . 

Yeah I am good thanks for asking. :thumbsup:
You doing well?


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Life is good here. 

Older and wiser each day.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

slinger58 said:


> Life is good here.
> 
> Older and wiser each day.


lol the wiser days are good ones. I hope I get there someday.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Workaholic said:


> lol the wiser days are good ones. I hope I get there someday.


You'll make it.

The wrinkles and hair loss are the trade-out, but at that point you won't give a sh!t.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

slinger58 said:


> You'll make it.
> 
> The wrinkles and hair loss are the trade-out, but at that point you won't give a sh!t.


I got some wrinkles and some white hairs both in my scruff and my dome cover but just thinning atm. Of course a lot of painters are bald that is why I hate touching the stuff. :jester:


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Workaholic said:


> I got some wrinkles and some white hairs both in my scruff and my dome cover but just thinning atm. Of course a lot of painters are bald that is why I hate touching the stuff. :jester:


Those wrinkles and white hairs are probably from moderating in this nuthouse (RH, Schmidt, etc). Given time, you'll probably recover.:jester:


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

slinger58 said:


> Those wrinkles and white hairs are probably from moderating in this nuthouse (RH, Schmidt, etc). Given time, you'll probably recover.:jester:


That is what I thought too. I dropped the mod crap so I did not end up like Paul. Tough pill to swallow to go from Aaron to Paul. :whistling2:


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

bodean614 said:


> Is the ceiling trusses or is there a second story? Ceiling joist will lift in the winter time. And cause this to happen. Come summer you won't notice. Is this the house in Hyde park? Those are old and plaster?? All materials will expand and contract at different rates so a perm. Fix may be impossible.


Yes the expansion and contraction. Our caulking is aesthetic not structural.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

slinger58 said:


> Those wrinkles and white hairs are probably from moderating in this nuthouse (RH, Schmidt, etc). Given time, you'll probably recover.:jester:


I've been blaming my head of white hair on my daughter since before PT even existed.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

talk about a high jacked thread


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

chrisn said:


> talk about a high jacked thread


No doubt. I'm going to try this in another thread.


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## harmonicarocks (Nov 29, 2013)

I would cut it out with olfa knife, and re-caulk with Big Stretch.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

epretot said:


> No doubt. I'm going to try this in another thread.


Sorry for aiding and abetting the hijacking, but I'm still curious about the long-term prospect of any fix.

As bodean pointed out, this may be a seasonal problem, and one that's unlikely to yield to a more rigid solution, such as skim coating the lid. Is there any pattern to where the cracks are located, or when in the year they are most obvious?

Is this a newer house with GWB? If so, the cracking could be caused by either truss lift and improperly-installed 'rock (i.e., nailing the lid around the periphery), or continued drying of the framing or the crown. Typically, truss-uplift cracks appear mainly along the wall/ceiling intersections in the central part of a house, rather than along exterior walls. The cracks from drying usually happpen throughout a room, unless they're associated with an actual leak.

We've seen new cracks appear in older homes that haven't had the problem when there has been remodeling. Sometimes it's a matter of the central heating being changed out, or other changes to the HVAC regimen.

The point of all this is that, without some sense of what's caused the problem, there's a good chance that your fix would be only a temporary band-aid.


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## bodean614 (May 31, 2011)

I only no of 1 cure for truss lift. I once install 5 pc oak crown and the trusses lifted an inch in the winter. Homeowners called I went and looked and could not believe it. Come summer went right back down. That's when I learned the fix.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

bodean614 said:


> I only no of 1 cure for truss lift. I once install 5 pc oak crown and the trusses lifted an inch in the winter. Homeowners called I went and looked and could not believe it. Come summer went right back down. That's when I learned the fix.


Well??? Are you going to share it with the class? Does it involve 5 gallons of diesel and a highway flare?


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## bodean614 (May 31, 2011)

2x12 deadwood screw to top plate between trusses. Screw gyp to 2x12 around edges and not screw to the truss for the fist 18 inches or so. Allows truss to move with out gyp. Now try to get the builder to pay for that. Hahaha.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

bodean614 said:


> 2x12 deadwood screw to top plate between trusses. Screw gyp to 2x12 around edges and not screw to the truss for the fist 18 inches or so. Allows truss to move with out gyp. Now try to get the builder to pay for that. Hahaha.


Here's a discussion and another, similar, solution.

http://www.buildersengineer.com/assets/images/blog/truss uplift 2-14-06.pdf


What I'm really curious is a fix after the fact. What can you do once the house is done, lived in, and the GWB hangers responsible have either fled or are back in jail??


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

bodean614 said:


> 2x12 deadwood screw to top plate between trusses. Screw gyp to 2x12 around edges and not screw to the truss for the fist 18 inches or so. Allows truss to move with out gyp. Now try to get the builder to pay for that. Hahaha.


Not only a builder but most HOs as well.

I would suspect that some of the existing cracking is not only due to old caulk but possibly oil based paint that was applied to the crown at some time.

Short of somewhat major reconstruction work, it seems that leaving a small expansion gap between the new skim coat and the crown and then applying a neat bead of a high quality elastomeric caulk would solve both the visual and technical problems.


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

RH said:


> Not only a builder but most HOs as well.
> 
> I would suspect that some of the existing cracking is not only due to old caulk but possibly oil based paint that was applied to the crown at some time.
> 
> Short of somewhat major reconstruction work, it seems that leaving a small expansion gap between the new skim coat and the crown and then applying a neat bead of a high quality elastomeric caulk would both solve the visual and technical problems.


The above procedure is what I settled on. I only ended up skimming about 1/2 of the perimeter. The other 1/2 came out clean. 

The unfortunate thing is the ceilings don't really need painted otherwise. 

The home was remodeled in 2002. Home owner said she has never noticed "major" gapping until now. I showed a picture in another thread (caulk or not) showing the doors. The doors are an absolute disaster. After further investigating, the panels had already been caulked. 

While the crown can be blamed on truss lifting, the doors can not. We had a very cold winter here. But no worse than anyone else.
. 
I spent 1 hour per door stripping the caulk with a Bahco wood scraper and sanding. Then I re-caulked them. 


I have no concerns about the time and effort it will take to fix the failing caulk. Just want to have the best procedure going forward given its a T&M project.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Sounds like a crack job for sure!


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## Slopmeyer (Aug 2, 2009)

Two pages of comments here and nobody addressed the simple cause of the problem. Poorly installed crown. Seen it a million times. The nail happy carpenters shooting a thousand nails but not hitting the joists. How many times have we caulked new crown and notice some movement. The carpenters get lazy and don't put in something to nail to for the top of the crown.

I just did a job similar to the OP's. Miles of crown,miles of failing caulk. In hind sight I'm thinking I could have used Lexel to secure the crown. I ended up cutting out a boat load of failing caulk and then spackling the area and recaulking. Other areas I caulked over heavily(Hate doing that). Hour and hours on a ladder for nine foot lids.

If you haven't given a number yet make sure you add on for wear and tear on the old bones.


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## Toolnut (Nov 23, 2012)

Since the ceiling is smooth (no texture) why not when you cut out the old caulk, cut slightly deeper along ridge that is left. It should fill with the new caulk prime, paint.


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