# I hate the union



## nextlevelpaintco. (Jun 21, 2007)

I'll probably offend any union painters on here but...whatever. As you can see in my post looking for a contractor in Marlboro NJ, I need a union contractor to do a job. I've done union jobs with my non union company using non union employees before. We've worked through the night to avoid any confontation with other union trades, we've also posed as union workers (with hard hat stickers and all); although our NC accents were a dead giveaway up north.

Union guys will not give you a break, they will bust you windows out, beat your vehicles to a pulp, sabotage your equipment, steal your material, and even send thugs out to try to intimidate you off the job. We've actually been on a union job working at 3 in the mourning, when two sharp dressed men in a cadillac pull up and start saying "things could happen if you don't get off this job"

Union workers are some of the most slack and non productive workers I've ever seen, even if they're behind they will not stay a second over 8 hours a day or 40 a week to get caught up, they have no consideration for other trades and could care less if someone is waiting on them. 

They will not lift a finger to move something like a board or drop cord to help you out, and they don't want your help either. I know from past experince with union contractors, the union is pretty much the mafia. Contractors are threatened and strong armed when not earning enough, they are forced to use the slackest employees ever, and pay them well.

Okay, I know all union guys aren't like this but, a large portion of them are. Has anyone else had bad experiences with the union?


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

If those goons in the Cadillac said that chit to me, they be getting back in the freaking car with a few black eyes. That would piss me off

Pat


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## timhag (Sep 30, 2007)

Unions suck, I did an 8 year stint with the Teamsters union. There is so much corruption not only against management but amongst fellow "brothers." The reason they will not work over time is due to "the less we do today, the more we have for tomorrow" mentality plus, management doesn't want to pay the overtime. We were paid overtime after 8 hours per day not 40 hours per week. So, if we worked 12 hrs on Monday and took Thursday and Friday off, we still got our 4 hrs overtime. 

You had your drivers and dock workers, a driver was not allowed to help a dock worker and visa versa. If you worked too fast, your "brothers" would let you know. If you worked too slow, management would be up your ass. There was no happy middle. If one stepped over those lines, you were sure to have 5th wheel grease smeared all over your car when you got off work. The mentality was that you were taking work from another man. 

I was way in over my head with the mentality of a so called "brother" they could keep that sh*t.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

nextlevelpaintco. said:


> I'll probably offend any union painters on here but...whatever. As you can see in my post looking for a contractor in Marlboro NJ, I need a union contractor to do a job. I've done union jobs with my non union company using non union employees before. We've worked through the night to avoid any confontation with other union trades, we've also posed as union workers (with hard hat stickers and all); although our NC accents were a dead giveaway up north.
> 
> Union guys will not give you a break, they will bust you windows out, beat your vehicles to a pulp, sabotage your equipment, steal your material, and even send thugs out to try to intimidate you off the job. We've actually been on a union job working at 3 in the mourning, when two sharp dressed men in a cadillac pull up and start saying "things could happen if you don't get off this job"
> 
> ...


Long time Union Painter here. I have also done my share of non-union work too. I do understasnd your frustration. I agree with some of what you have to say, and disagree with some. Before you go putting down Union painters too much take a look at many workers in general today. I have never met you, or seen any of your guys skills, but will bet cash money I can smoke any guy you've got. I also would bet money I work harder too. Think Im full of BS? Buy me a plane ticket  I have seen dead beat-slacker painters that are union and ones that are non-union. Has nothing to do with union or not. The Union has an apprenticeship program. Not too many non-union shops do. The union requires continuing education for painters. Very few non-union shops do. Being a long time union painter, I have a pension coming to me some day. As for the intimidation tactics? I totally agree with you. I have worked in NJ and experienced the threats. I feel everyone has a right to work and nobody should be required to join a union. If the union has a problem with a contractor on a job, picket the job. No need to make threats and sabatoge equipment. Thats BS. Weather you choose to run a union shop or not should be your choice and nobody elses. Anyway, I saw your post the other day and hope everything works out for you.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

I bet this thread doesnt make it through the day.  I do agree that there is a lot of corruption going on today and pretty much always has been, but I also know that some of the best painters I have ever worked with were Union painters.


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## nextlevelpaintco. (Jun 21, 2007)

Hey woodland, I done job last year in Vancouver WA. Have you seen the new costco that just opened?


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## eddie (Jul 10, 2008)

I'm a union contractor across the pond i'm only involved with this union because I have to. I absolutely have no time for them, they are bullies they are of no benefit to me they are only in it for themselves they are a joke


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

nextlevelpaintco. said:


> Hey woodland, I done job last year in Vancouver WA. Have you seen the new costco that just opened?


The one off Andresen? Seen it but havent been inside yet. Look me up if you ver do anymore work in Oregon or Washington.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

nextlevelpaintco. said:


> Hey woodland, I done job last year in Vancouver WA. Have you seen the new costco that just opened?


 I was on a job with Charlotte Paint years back. The were doing the core on a new mall in Columbia SC and we were dong a few tenant improvent jobs. One of them was a Bonwit Teller. I always did like North Carolina. I did the Colliseum Center in Charlotte about 20 years agio and I also painted a Target in Ashville back in the late 80s. Oh yeah, being born and raised in the south, my accent stood out too when I was working New Jersey and PA :thumbsup: Quite a change up there. People aint too friendly. Not all, but many. (I did meet some good people up there) But, its like you go into a different country soon as you cross the Mason-Dixon line into Maryland. Things instantly change


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## JNLP (Dec 13, 2007)

timhag said:


> Unions suck, I did an 8 year stint with the Teamsters union. There is so much corruption not only against management but amongst fellow "brothers." The reason they will not work over time is due to "the less we do today, the more we have for tomorrow" mentality plus, management doesn't want to pay the overtime. We were paid overtime after 8 hours per day not 40 hours per week. So, if we worked 12 hrs on Monday and took Thursday and Friday off, we still got our 4 hrs overtime.
> 
> You had your drivers and dock workers, a driver was not allowed to help a dock worker and visa versa. If you worked too fast, your "brothers" would let you know. If you worked too slow, management would be up your ass. There was no happy middle. If one stepped over those lines, you were sure to have 5th wheel grease smeared all over your car when you got off work. The mentality was that you were taking work from another man.
> 
> I was way in over my head with the mentality of a so called "brother" they could keep that sh*t.


 I think those Union painters wanted to beat us up down at that condo Tim. That was one of the funnest jobs I ever had.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Putting on my mod hat and picking up my Ban Hammer:










Let me encourage you all to be non-personal, non-combative, and non-adversarial when joining this discussion.

I too have run into issues with unions, I have no love in general for them. BUT, please take to heart what Woodland has said, do not paint all Union workers with the same broad brush.

I do have a few good friends who are Union hangers and they are good men. 

Even I will admit there are also positive things about unions, so let's be fair.

Thanks


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

I don't understand the hate for unions. Don't you guys use intimidation and extortion to keep your workers busy too?


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

daArch said:


> Putting on my mod hat and picking up my Ban Hammer:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you Bill. Well said. I hope this topic does stay civil. I totally understand the original post and his frustration. I was on a job in Newark working for a non union shop from Atlanta. One day two obviously connected organizers showed up and informed me they would kick my f***ing teeth out the back of my head.  I have a right to work and whether its union or not is my choice and nobody elses. My boss did fly in from Atalanta the next morning to meet with them. They're demands were beyond unreasonable and they never came to an agreement. They threatened to picket the job, but it never happened. I really have no desire to ever work in NJ again. :no: After all my years as a union painter will I ever become a signatory contractor? Highly unlikely. I will however hopefully draw my union pension someday :thumbsup:


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

Woodland said:


> After all my years as a union painter will I ever become a signatory contractor? Highly unlikely. I will however hopefully draw my union pension someday :thumbsup:


I think you nailed it right there. 

Is it good to be a union employee? :yes:

Is it good to be a union employer? :no:


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## timhag (Sep 30, 2007)

JNLP said:


> I think those Union painters wanted to beat us up down at that condo Tim. That was one of the funnest jobs I ever had.


Loved picking out all their mistakes, funny stuff messing with them. :thumbup:


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

ProWallGuy said:


> I think you nailed it right there.
> 
> Is it good to be a union employee? :yes:
> 
> Is it good to be a union employer? :no:


It wouldnt be for me. I do firmly believe that anyone working hard at a job should be able to support their family, buy a home and have health care and a retirement down the road. And I hope I can get to a point someday where I can offer a health plan to my empoyees and a pension plan. Whether or not that will ever be possible for me I do not know. But if I do get there it wont be with the Union  I have absolutely no regrets with my years as a union painter. I get a statement once a year showing my pension.


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

Woodland said:


> I get a statement once a year showing my pension.


So I assume you are still paying dues?


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

ProWallGuy said:


> So I assume you are still paying dues?


No, I no longer pay dues. I did take a withdraw card years back, but even let that go. Im vested and my pension is locked it. I have a few issues the way the local is run around here that I wont get into. However, not to be a hypoctite, but if I was to have to go back to working for wages I would probably go back down to the hall and sign back up again simply because although I do residential repaints today, my primary painting experience is commercial and any of the commercial contractors around here worth working for are signatory.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Woodland said:


> Long time Union Painter here. I have also done my share of non-union work too. I do understasnd your frustration. I agree with some of what you have to say, and disagree with some. Before you go putting down Union painters too much take a look at many workers in general today. I have never met you, or seen any of your guys skills, but will bet cash money I can smoke any guy you've got. I also would bet money I work harder too. Think Im full of BS? Buy me a plane ticket  I have seen dead beat-slacker painters that are union and ones that are non-union. Has nothing to do with union or not. The Union has an apprenticeship program. Not too many non-union shops do. The union requires continuing education for painters. Very few non-union shops do. Being a long time union painter, I have a pension coming to me some day. As for the intimidation tactics? I totally agree with you. I have worked in NJ and experienced the threats. I feel everyone has a right to work and nobody should be required to join a union. If the union has a problem with a contractor on a job, picket the job. No need to make threats and sabatoge equipment. Thats BS. Weather you choose to run a union shop or not should be your choice and nobody elses. Anyway, I saw your post the other day and hope everything works out for you.


Well put. 
Its amusing to me how some members pound their chests because they deduct taxes (like its some grand, noble thing they're doing when really its business 101), but mention education, health care, or pensions and the room gets strangely quite.


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

Bender said:


> Well put.
> Its amusing to me how some members pound their chests because they deduct taxes (like its some grand, noble thing they're doing when really its business 101), but mention education, health care, or pensions and the room gets strangely quite.


Good point. 
Most here can't offer their painters what unions can.
Us included. It is our intent to do that, but we are not even close.
A more balanced view would be nice.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

Bender said:


> Well put.
> Its amusing to me how some members pound their chests because they deduct taxes (like its some grand, noble thing they're doing when really its business 101), but mention education, health care, or pensions and the room gets strangely quite.


I have no problem what so ever with these guys, however if they came and tried to intimidate me, then I would. Everyone has a right to earn a living here. 

My issue with unions are the public sector ones, where I'm the fook that's paying for the pensions and health benefits. All the respect in the world for the private sector unions as they pay for their own stuff.

The governor in Wisconsin is my hero :thumbsup:

Pat


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

OK, this may be over the political line, but if Pat's stay, then I request equal time:


_A CEO, a tea party member, and a unionized public employee are sitting at a table. There are 12 cookies in a dish on the table.

The CEO grabs 11 of the cookies and says to the tea party member: “You better watch out–that union guy wants your cookie!”_


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