# Kem Aqua Plus Vs PreCat Epoxy For Oak Cabinets (pics)



## Trox (Nov 3, 2016)

*2 Oak doors side by side* 
I used a Graco 9.5 HVLP with a pressurized cup. Testing out a few products and had these old crappy oak cabinet doors laying around. Thought you guys might want to see these two side by side.

*Prep* - TSP scrub, light sanding with 220 to scuff the varnish (was worried about opening up the grain to release tannins into my primer which I am not confident has a blocker, more on that later) 

*Primer* - 2 coats Kem Aqua Plus Surfacer http://www.paintdocs.com/docs/webPDF.jsp?SITEID=STORECAT&lang=E&doctype=PDS&prodno=E64W520 Sanding in between coats. As stated I did not want to remove the varnish completely as this is not a blocker/sealer and as stated by the tech support at Sherman Williams this is not intended for repaints. Any advice for other primers with a blocker/sealer would be greatly appreciated. XIM UMA? 

*Door on left* - 3 topcoats Kem Aqua Precat Waterborne Pigmented Lacquer - 4mils each coat. I did check. 1hr dry time each. Light sanding after 1st coat not after 2nd 

*Door on right* - 2 top coats Sherman Williams ProIndustrial Precat Waterborne Epoxy. 10-15% water thinned. No sanding in between top coats. Waited 4 hours in between coats even though paint doc calls for 8hr. 

I am pleased with each. The epoxy seemed to fill the grain a little better and I am thinking about trying the Sherwood Natural Filler on another door. 

Also I am planning to caulk the next doors with a SherMax urethanized elastomeric sealant after the first primer fog coat and see how that works. https://www.sherwin-williams.com/document/PDS/en/035777265185/
I have read a couple threads about cracking here and would you guys think the epoxy or the lacquer would crack first? I do realize those stiles are meant to move but I have read about many people having long term success with the Shermax or a Tower Tech 2 sesalant in the edges and it just looks so much better. 

Any advice to a complete novice here guys? I'm curious what other bonding/blocking combination primers you would recomend (that I could topcoat with a waterborne lacquer or epoxy) on a clear coat oak faced door to prevent bleeds of tannin yet maintain maximum adhesion. 

I just purchased some XIM UMA waterborne primer off Amazon and look forward to testing that on the next door it seems very universal. Have not tried any scratch tests yet will update this when I do.


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

Keep us updated. Good to have some real world tests being done. Curious to see the outcome.

Another product you might give a shot is Sherwin's pro industrial waterborne alkyd urethane enamel.


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

Good to see some real world tests being done. Keep us updated. 

Another one you might give a shot is: Sherwin's pro industrial waterborne alkyd enamel. 

Not sure how it would hold up with cab doors but it dries pretty hard and it's flexible enough to be used outside (interior/exterior product), might hold up to wood movement.


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## Trox (Nov 3, 2016)

I appreciate the response and will certainly keep you updated on this. I am motivated to find my own version of a definitive answer to this. As far as the Urethane Alkyd Enamel I may have to give that a shot. 

After reading the data sheet the unattractive property to that application for me would be the 4hr tack free and 18hr recoat time that it is rated at 77 degrees... which I probably won't be working in at all times. The lacquers are attractive to me for the fast dry time and recoat. May still give it a shot. :thumbsup:


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Trox said:


> I appreciate the response and will certainly keep you updated on this. I am motivated to find my own version of a definitive answer to this. As far as the Urethane Alkyd Enamel I may have to give that a shot.
> 
> After reading the data sheet the unattractive property to that application for me would be the 4hr tack free and 18hr recoat time that it is rated at 77 degrees... which I probably won't be working in at all times. The lacquers are attractive to me for the fast dry time and recoat. May still give it a shot. :thumbsup:


I don't like the Urethane Alkyd for the same reason, if you're looking to try something else out try the Pro Industrial Multi Surface Acrylic.


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## Trox (Nov 3, 2016)

Will do thank you. Rbriggs do you have any recommendations for the blocking/bonding primers for any of these topcoats on a lightly sanded oak? I'm thinking that XIM UMA is what I am going to try next it just seems so bullet proof and has incredible reviews. 

I wanted to try the STIX bonding primer but I've heard that it cannot stain block well. After reading the XIM UMA data sheet it does say in a quick sentence that tannic acid may require their solvent based stain killer. 

http://sevenspaint.com/docs/tds/XIM UMA primer.pdf

Seeing that I am probably going to be working with a lot of oak I hope to find my product/process here within the next couple weeks. We'll see! 

http://www.woodworkingarchive.biz/sanding-tricks/woods-that-contain-high-amounts-of-tannic-acid.html


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## Trox (Nov 3, 2016)

Here is another product that may be of interest but as stated in the PDS it does not act as a sealer. I may need to just add in a step to my process if I run into cabinets that need sanded down past the varnish. Perhaps a BIN oil based sealer? 

https://www.sherwin-williams.com/document/PDS/en/035777307922/


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Trox said:


> Will do thank you. Rbriggs do you have any recommendations for the blocking/bonding primers for any of these topcoats on a lightly sanded oak? I'm thinking that XIM UMA is what I am going to try next it just seems so bullet proof and has incredible reviews.
> 
> I wanted to try the STIX bonding primer but I've heard that it cannot stain block well. After reading the XIM UMA data sheet it does say in a quick sentence that tannic acid may require their solvent based stain killer.
> 
> ...


On most of the cabinets I do I don't need a primer for the multi surface, it sticks to just about everything. If I'm concerned about tannin bleed or about adhesion after a test spot I always prime with BIN. It blocks everything, sticks to anything, dries super fast, and sands nice. To me there's no point monkeying around with other primers when I know BIN can handle everything with out a problem.


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## Trox (Nov 3, 2016)

Really appreciate the input thank you. I read the data sheet for the BIN and think I will have to purchase some and try it out. 

Is BIN compatible with any topcoat? I could not find information on that. Would I be able to spray pigmented lacquer over the top of a sanded BIN coat or even the Precat Epoxy?

Thank you :thumbsup:


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## Trox (Nov 3, 2016)

Here is a bonding primer product shootout of sorts I found interesting guys. 






Also any thoughts on the BIN Waternborn Synthetic Shellac Primer? The guy in the video seemed to like it. 

https://www.rustoleum.com/~/media/D...01_Advanced_Synthetic_Shellac_Primer_TDS.ashx


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

I've never tried the Synthetic, only the real stuff. I'm sure the synthetic is fie for adhesion but if the goal is to block tannin bleed I'd go with the real stuff. I'd be willing to bet if he tried the Multi Surface along with those primers he wouldn't have been able to scratch it off.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Trox said:


> Really appreciate the input thank you. I read the data sheet for the BIN and think I will have to purchase some and try it out.
> 
> Is BIN compatible with any topcoat? I could not find information on that. Would I be able to spray pigmented lacquer over the top of a sanded BIN coat or even the Precat Epoxy?
> 
> Thank you :thumbsup:


I have zero experience with lacquer so I'm not sure but it would be perfectly fine under the precat.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

Nice thread to start out with. I'm sure there are many people with great experience who prefer using these products, and many others interested in getting to use them, like me.

I like your approach, documenting your processes and results, looking for a successful system and asking for feedback. 

I have used the synthetic bin once. Shot it through the airless with a 410. It happened to be the 3rd WB stain blocking primer I hit the cabinets with. Had old, toned and clear coated mahogany cabinets. I sanded through the clear coat in many spots. I sprayed them with 2 coats of All-prime stain blocking but it didn't do much. They had bad tannin bleeding. 
Then sprayed them with 2 coats Kelly moore 255 tannin blocking primer. There was improvement but still tannins. I brushed finish coat on a test area and saw stains come through. I then sprayed the 2 coats of WB Bin. Still small areas left which I hit with aerosol bin to lock it out.
The bin had good build with 2 coats but didn't sand well. Maybe one coat would sand more effectively.


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

If your worried about tanins, I think the bin would work. Other work around would be old school de-waxed shellac. Stuff dries amazingly fast. Personally I love shellac, think the stuff rocks plus it water proofs like crazy, but I'm sure won't pass a VOC test worth a darn.

Another thing that came to mind that I forgot to mention would be:

Tinted Poly. 

Specifically the waterborne poly. I know different companies have it, I know for sure General Finishes has some and I think even Target Coatings might. 

ML Campbell might be another bet. They have a 2 part poly that looks awfully stout. I might order me some just to play with, even as just a top-coat.


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## canopainting (Feb 12, 2013)

To block tannin bleed on oak we use white pigmented shellac.


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## ngeorgieff (Mar 6, 2017)

Trox said:


> *2 Oak doors side by side*
> 
> *Primer* - 2 coats Kem Aqua Plus Surfacer http://www.paintdocs.com/docs/webPDF.jsp?SITEID=STORECAT&lang=E&doctype=PDS&prodno=E64W520 Sanding in between coats. As stated I did not want to remove the varnish completely as this is not a blocker/sealer and as stated by the tech support at Sherman Williams this is not intended for repaints. Any advice for other primers with a blocker/sealer would be greatly appreciated. XIM UMA?
> 
> *Door on left* - 3 topcoats Kem Aqua Precat Waterborne Pigmented Lacquer - 4mils each coat. I did check. 1hr dry time each. Light sanding after 1st coat not after 2nd


I spoke to sales rep guy at Sherwin Wiliams and he said that the Kem Aqua and Kem aqua Plus WB lacquers are not recommended over any previous coating. 

He told me that it is only meant for new wood shop applications.

Any concerns?


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

So the WB Kem Lacquer is not recommended over a previous coating like a stain? lol.

Sounds like the sales rep either talked with the product hotline guys or didn't have a clue himself. 

I've used Kem Aqua and the Lacquer plenty of times. Even made toners out of them, which probably isn't recommended either.

Ditch the lacquer, got with Kem Aqua Plus. The Kem Aqua Plus and the Kem Aqua Lacquer are two completely different things, just so your aware, if you weren't already before. 

Kem Aqua Plus is pretty tough stuff, has excellent blocking capabilities, water based, cleans up easy, sprays nicely with minimal reduction for HVLP.

Edit:
Why not just two coat with epoxy paint? Or do you plan on putting the epoxy paint and then top-coating? I would think that if it's a good quality epoxy (look at the blocking abilities, pencil test, etc.) that it probably wouldn't need a top coat. Therefore you can skip the top-coat step. Just a thought.


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## ngeorgieff (Mar 6, 2017)

I'll try the Kem Aqua Plus. Has anyone sprayed Keg Aqua Plus White with an airless sprayer with the new RAC X FF LP tips?


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## Paintlife2020 (Nov 2, 2019)

Kem Aqua Pigmented Lacquer, with a Graco Nova 390 I’ve used both 210 red guard tip and the FF 210 and I’ve got to say with this specific product you’re much more prone to runs with the FF210 versus the standard. Was having issues with a kitchenette. Thought it was environmental factors, switched tips for the hell of it and had no more runs. 

Was a particular tricky spot. Hopefully not much of a user error ha


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## Mr Smith (Mar 11, 2016)

Paintlife2020 said:


> Kem Aqua Pigmented Lacquer, with a Graco Nova 390 Iâ€™ve used both 210 red guard tip and the FF 210 and Iâ€™ve got to say with this specific product youâ€™re much more prone to runs with the FF210 versus the standard. Was having issues with a kitchenette. Thought it was environmental factors, switched tips for the hell of it and had no more runs.
> 
> Was a particular tricky spot. Hopefully not much of a user error ha


Yeah KA is a very thin product and best sprayed horizontally. Use a 208. The boxes can be a challenge. Maybe do a scratch coat and follow with a light coat. The modern Italian 1K poly is much thicker and you can use an airless without it running on vertical surfaces.


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