# Messed up doors



## briancreary (Oct 12, 2010)

I was asked to go save these doors by a contractor I do a lot of work for. Apparently this woman hired a painter that used one of those red epoxy 9" rollers and rolled the doors tacky (BM Aura satin) and stippled them terribly. When she approached him, he took it personal and told her that her standards were too high and he would not fix them:no:...Wow I can't believe some people. Oh well, stuff like this helps pay the bills in the winter. I just couldn't do that to someone. 

These pictures are: on the left what the doors initially looked like all stipply, on the right is after one pass with a 1/4 sander with 80, and one pass with 120.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

I bet when you finish that door you just sanded, it won't look much different then before. Might even look worse due to brush lines and the old stipple. 

Not easy to get rid of a old nasty stipple. 

Pat


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## briancreary (Oct 12, 2010)

Thanks for the vote of confidence lol. Seriously though this was only day one, I'm going to take them down to the factory primer with a 400 finish. Will probably take a couple days since there a are 6 of these all with the same look.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

shouldn't be too tough. Sand like you are, and apply paint correctly. Glad you got a job! Thanks for sharing.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

PatsPainting said:


> I bet when you finish that door you just sanded, it won't look much different then before. Might even look worse due to brush lines and the old stipple.
> 
> Not easy to get rid of a old nasty stipple.
> 
> Pat


Pat is right, unless you like sanding water base paint that sands up into little balls. Fun stuff, but yes it can look good, if you do a lot of sanding.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

briancreary said:


> Thanks for the vote of confidence lol. Seriously though this was only day one, I'm going to take them down to the factory primer with a 400 finish. Will probably take a couple days since there a are 6 of these all with the same look.


Well if you have the time, then I'm sure you can pull it off. I'm just going off of past experience. Sometime I think its just easier to give them a quick sand with a random orbital and use some sort of filler as a skim coat to get rid of that ugly stipple. If you can, post some after shots.

Pat


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## briancreary (Oct 12, 2010)

Will do thanks, I was considering using a sanding lacquer undercoat the sanding that, but things are going well enough so far. My issue was more with how the woman was treated. This is also a prime reason I use alkyds on trim and doors, a bit more sandable. I don't personally like random orbitals on fine finish work for fear of leaving circles.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

" I don't personally like random orbitals on fine finish work for fear of leaving circles."

Two coats of paint usually takes care of that, unless your using too heavy of a grit.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Are you sanding them on horses or upright?


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Bender said:


> Are you sanding them on horses or upright?


Are you asking if he rides horses while sanding, or sands while riding horses?


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Brian

Were these doors previously painted? If they were, I'd give wet-sanding a try: TSP/water and some coarse wet-dry paper. Often we've found that it'll take the new paint right off. We've actually taken some doors like this to the car wash and stripped off the new paint with hot, soapy water.

One of the glass shops that we do work with has a sign posted with various shop labor rates. The highest rate is the one they charge if you tried to do it before and messed it up before bringing it to them. I hope you're using a similar approach with this job.


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## AztecPainting (Jan 28, 2010)

Hmm... I always wonder about this people that mess up paint jobs (Not everyone can be a painter that's for sure) Seriously, which part of painting a door is that difficult? People like that should not be call themselves a Painter (That's for the painter that did the job before you.)

Ok That's it, BTW I'm back from holidays!

Cheers everyone!


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## Metro M & L (Jul 21, 2009)

I second the vote for skim coat. Knife on a thin coat, sand and repeat. Prime sand paint. It'll be really smooth.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

No experience sanding Aura in your situation but some paper works on water-base much better than others. The purple 3M pole sander paper and Full Circle International dark red paper worked great for me sanding water-base acrylics before.

You can get those 'circles' from a square palm sander or an orbital. That simply indicates you are using the wrong paper for the job. Most acrylics sand nicer with water. You'll see immediate differences using water. 

There are two reasons guys roll and leave doors that way. 1) They dont know how to produce brushless-like finishes and they know that door will be full of brushmarks so instead they make it full of stipple as if somehow its better. 2) Their paint doesnt allow them to produce a nice finish. 

Thats the difference between hiring a real painter to do the job. Not much skill in rolling objects is there?


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## briancreary (Oct 12, 2010)

Thanks guys-

1) I am sanding them on horses. 

2) not literal horses.

3) have not tried wet sanding but thats a good idea.

4) her issue isn't so much with the stipple (believe it or not) but with the "flashing," that occured because they did it incorrectly, and then gave her grief when she had concerns. 

5) I think anyone here could have and has rolled a door before and it was obvious these guys were not using the right tools or had the right skills. 

*As a side not, my question is mostly why people treat their customers this way. Everyone makes a mistake no matter how good you are, but to make it the customer's fault is just poor business. 99% of people when they complain are genuinely concerned, but there is that 1% that wants to get mad and pay you less or make life impossible. But I have met the impossible people very rarely.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

briancreary said:


> *As a side not, my question is mostly why people treat their customers this way. Everyone makes a mistake no matter how good you are, but to make it the customer's fault is just poor business. 99% of people when they complain are genuinely concerned, but there is that 1% that wants to get mad and pay you less or make life impossible. But I have met the impossible people very rarely.


Fixing mistakes is my favorite thing, the more pissed the customer is, the better. It can be a golden opportunity to build a long term customer relationship. I cant begin to tell you how many gallons of competitors paint I have re-tinted/corrected. The customers are thrilled, both retail and contractor.


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

NCPaint1 said:


> Fixing mistakes is my favorite thing, the more pissed the customer is, the better. It can be a golden opportunity to build a long term customer relationship. I cant begin to tell you how many gallons of competitors paint I have re-tinted/corrected. The customers are thrilled, both retail and contractor.


 Agreed. A perfect opportunity to be the hero. :thumbsup:


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Wet sand them with denatured alcohol.


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

I stopped lurking and logged-in, just to see your pictures, Brian.

I'm a little disappointed.

But I figure as long as I'm here, I might as well say something.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Brian. This is why you are there and the HO won't be passing the previous painters name around. Word of mouth instant fail!


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Bender said:


> Wet sand them with denatured alcohol.



Are you serious? That would make a gummy mess I would think.

Aura sands pretty good for an acrylic since it gets so hard. It powders decent.


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

I'm pretty sure Bender was joking.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Steve Richards said:


> I'm pretty sure Bender was joking.


I hope so. Was going to say something.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

You guys ever try it?


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

DeanV said:


> Are you serious? That would make a gummy mess I would think.
> 
> Aura sands pretty good for an acrylic since it gets so hard. It powders decent.



My experience with Aura this year has been disappointingly opposite. It's all I used for the most, but lately I've been trying other paints by other companies as I'm falling out of love with Aura. 

There's been a few situations this year where I felt it never seems to fully cure and harden, almost spongy feeling to this day. There's lots of other factors to consider like surface prep and type of surface, previous layers of paint, how thick did I apply it ect....I'm watching and logging that information.


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

Bender said:


> You guys ever try it?


My memory being what it is, I'd have to say "probably"
..and it probably made my sandpaper gummy.


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## briancreary (Oct 12, 2010)

Gee would hate to ever disappoint you lol , I'll get more pictures up the longer I'm here. As far as sanding goes, it's going well, aura sets up pretty hard and this guy did the doors about a month and a half ago


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

briancreary said:


> Gee would hate to ever disappoint you lol , I'll get more pictures up the longer I'm here. As far as sanding goes, it's going well, aura sets up pretty hard and this guy did the doors about a month and a half ago


Yeah, hang in there, keep postings. This not a bad place to be, a lot of good ideas.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

I guess if the goal is to save your precious sandpaper then this technique is not for you.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Bender said:


> You guys ever try it?


Not with Aura.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I would not have thought it would work with how alcohol dissolves latex. Not worrying about the paper, just gummy stuff usually does not sand as well had hard stuff. It the need arises, I will have this filed away to try.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

yeah, you should submit after photos when you are finished.

perhaps take some action shots too, like sanding.

lets go full circle with this. Happy endings is what our country, our spirits, and painttalk needs.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Paint and Hammer said:


> My experience with Aura this year has been disappointingly opposite. It's all I used for the most, but lately I've been trying other paints by other companies as I'm falling out of love with Aura.
> 
> There's been a few situations this year where I felt it never seems to fully cure and harden, almost spongy feeling to this day. There's lots of other factors to consider like surface prep and type of surface, previous layers of paint, how thick did I apply it ect....I'm watching and logging that information.


Ahh, seems like the Aura adoration and mystique is coming to an end for some.:yes:


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Wolfgang said:


> Ahh, seems like the Aura adoration and mystique is coming to an end for some.:yes:


Still a fan. At least as long as the walls are not 16' tall. Even then, I may still be a fan, just have not used Aura on 2 story great room walls yet and I have heard it gives some painters trouble.


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

Bender said:


> I guess if the goal is to save your precious sandpaper then this technique is not for you.


In my short time here Bender, you've already become more precious to me than sandpaper could ever hope to be.
(I'm talking about sandpaper sheets though...not the blocks. Especially not a new sanding block, with the paper still on it).

I apologize for thinking you were joking...

If you're not too angry, how about making this a learning experience for me?

So..
How do you get the alcohol on the door? (rag, spray bottle, pour it?)
How many sheets would a door like Brian's typically use?
What grit?
You lay the door down?
Sander or hand-job?
Wouldn't it be just as easy and less-messy to use a stripper on the door?


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## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

Hmmmmm...... You used the words alcohol, hand-job, and stripper in one post......... What was the question again?


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Lambrecht said:


> Hmmmmm...... You used the words alcohol, hand-job, and stripper in one post......... What was the question again?


I see great minds think alike.:whistling2:


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Steve Richards said:


> In my short time here Bender, you've already become more precious to me than sandpaper could ever hope to be.
> (I'm talking about sandpaper sheets though...not the blocks. Especially not a new sanding block, with the paper still on it).
> 
> I apologize for thinking you were joking...
> ...


Not a block??! You cut me deep

Thats why I asked if he was setting them up on saw horses. Of course it easier if the door is horizontal. 
120 works great, and 220 to touch up.
I'm not talking about a bucket and mop of denatured, just enough to soften up the stipple. As it softens the stipple and you sand it, it will melt down like you sanded it with 600 grit.


Steve said:


> How many sheets


That depends. Are you a folder or crumpler?


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

Bender said:


> That depends. Are you a folder or crumpler?


I guess I'm more of a wrapper...as in, around my sponge.

Then long, even strokes...varying slightly in speed and intensity... sometimes nearing a quiet, controlled frenzy.. and before I know it...all done!

I also like to switch hands sometimes, and pretend someone else is sanding for me.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Steve Richards said:


> I guess I'm more of a wrapper...as in, around my sponge.
> 
> Then long, even strokes...varying slightly in speed and intensity... sometimes nearing a quiet, controlled frenzy.. and before I know it...all done!
> 
> I also like to switch hands sometimes, and pretend someone else is sanding for me.


Steve, you are such a jack of...all trades.


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

I blame RCP.
First thing this morning, I read about her cleaning paint off her butt.
My mind hasn't been right ever since.
Hopefully I'll be back to normal by morning.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Steve Richards said:


> I also like to switch hands sometimes, and pretend someone else is sanding for me.


Yep, next best thing to having somebody else sand for you...


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## Faron79 (Dec 11, 2007)

Damn funny there TJ!

Funny....and a little disturbing....:blink:

Faron


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Faron79 said:


> Damn funny there TJ!
> 
> Funny....and a little disturbing....:blink:
> 
> Faron


hey what store are you at scheels?


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## briancreary (Oct 12, 2010)

*Almost as good as Jack's but not quite yet...*

Here's images of three of the completed doors. Pretty good in all. BTW, the denatured alcohol thing works if you are very careful...I can't beleive it, but I tried on a whim in a not-so-apparent place and it worked. 

Thanks guys: the discussion about dialing in was paticuarly helpful


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