# Gloss off



## Philly Painter (Dec 24, 2007)

When repainting trim do you use chemicals like "gloss off" or liquid sandpaper ? Or do you just sand the trim a bit with 120 grit ? Or both ?


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## Joewho (Apr 17, 2007)

My answer is just sand it with a sponge. I've used deglosser but don't really trust it. There's cost involved and the fumes....(here we go with the eco thng again).
Plus, my angle is that I don't want a buttload of stuff to sift through all the time. Don't want a list as long as my arm, of supplies to get. To me, it's just another one of the things that isn't really necessary. Not to say it doesn't have it's purposes, but just in general, no.


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## Rich (Apr 26, 2007)

I have done both methods. I tend to sand, but when you want absolutely no dust, deglosser is fine. They do have a few that don't smell too bad and are safe, but then a few really stink to high hell. It probably comes down to the job, but I'd say most guys are still sanding.

One thing I wouldn't do is use both methods...1 is fine and keeps production up


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

for greasy woodwork - after sanding - I will hit some areas with wilbond - I still tend to favor sanding. Or washing with TSP after sanding.


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## Z paint (Jan 16, 2008)

ive only used de-glosser once and it worked okay...i was using it on cabinets were were repainting and i think it was a good step before i sanded...which i felt still needed it...not something i would keep stocked


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## the paintman (Feb 3, 2012)

Rich said:


> I have done both methods. I tend to sand, but when you want absolutely no dust, deglosser is fine. They do have a few that don't smell too bad and are safe, but then a few really stink to high hell. It probably comes down to the job, but I'd say most guys are still sanding.
> 
> One thing I wouldn't do is use both methods...1 is fine and keeps production up


 
I had the question about what to use in place of The old Liqid Sandpaper that I use to use that seems to be so scarce nowadays. I have resorted to the junk the lyons and big bears sell and don't like it at all. So I did a search and found this old thread and another and I think the answer is to just use denatured alcohol it seems. I thought about adding some acetone to it if I think its not strong enough. Any DANGERS in that combo to anyones knowledge?
And with all due respect to the above poster I think its best to use both sanding and wiping with deglosser. For many reasons. The main ones are that for one it is so critical a step for us and the work we do that a lot of times we are using latex over oil in a health facilities we paint. And if you are useing employees its another chance to cover your arse when you degloss should the first person to touch that door did not sand it that thourougly. And since we dust and wipe trim anyway prior to painting. Why not wipe with a rag of deglosser. I don't care if it takes more time to be quite honest. What takes more time is going back on 300 doors to fix that are peeling in sheets. If you didn't lose the customer for life to begin with. Which is worse.
in closing i have a question in 2 parts. Is denatured alcohol by itself my new deglosser/liquid sandpaper? And can I add a little acetone or some other chemical without blowing up the building im in? I agree with another poster on the other thread i read. The the whole idea is to soften the old finish up a little to get a good bond. MY concern has to do totally with adhesion.

TIA, The paintman


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## cdaniels (Oct 20, 2012)

Philly Painter said:


> When repainting trim do you use chemicals like "gloss off" or liquid sandpaper ? Or do you just sand the trim a bit with 120 grit ? Or both ?


I sand


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Alcohol cleans stuff good.. But I don't really see it being a de glosser. 
One of the uses for denatured is to remove latex from oil without damaging/softening it, it just doesn't have much effect on the surface at all except to clean. 

If I'm trying to soften something like that, I use lacquer thinner or acetone. It seems to work as good as de glossers I've bought. I wipe, then apply about as soon as the solvent evaporates.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

how many sand with a wet paint brush ?


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I clean and then sand. Not with 120 grit paper though, unless its a deck or siding or boxing, or something you need binoculars to see.


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

I use a sanding sponge, the block type not the pads. They don't create much dust. Then I give them a quick wash with Krud Kutter 1:4 with water, keep about three rags in the bucket and get a new one for each door.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

I've used a lot of Krud Kutter de-glosser, which is different than krud kutter cleaner. Now I am more of the opinion of cleaning well first, and then sand well for adhesion. I still think sanding is key for adhesion.


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## Brian C (Oct 8, 2011)

yea, I agree with the above post. Sandpaper, dust down surface, Krud Kutter de-gloss solution then she's ready to paint.


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## loaded brush (Dec 27, 2007)

With all the outstanding bonding primers, why even bother with sanding or deglossing. Seems like a time waster. One coat primer, one coat paint, done.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

loaded brush said:


> With all the outstanding bonding primers, why even bother with sanding or deglossing. Seems like a time waster. One coat primer, one coat paint, done.


Cuz then you're not gambling.

I save that for hangin with SR at the casino.


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## the paintman (Feb 3, 2012)

loaded brush said:


> With all the outstanding bonding primers, why even bother with sanding or deglossing. Seems like a time waster. One coat primer, one coat paint, done.


 
As I have said so many times before. Even so called "experenced" painters make thecrucial mistake of thinking you don't have to sand or deGloss enamel before painting. Trust me and the above postor on this one, and you won't lose your shirt someday.


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

loaded brush said:


> With all the outstanding bonding primers, why even bother with sanding or deglossing. Seems like a time waster. One coat primer, one coat paint, done.


I look at it this way, I'm not sanding for adhesion mostly, more for the nice feel of the finish coat. Even a nice looking door will have some nics, dings, runs, hair, dust, whatever that makes it feel less than desirable. Sanding knocks down all the imperfections. If you just prime without any sanding, the door will feel no different. Heck, most nice enamels will stick without priming, so forget the primer then?

And since I don't use Behr finish, I have to strain my enamel to I don't put the above mentioned back on the door.


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

MikeCalifornia said:


> I look at it this way, I'm not sanding for adhesion mostly, more for the nice feel of the finish coat. Even a nice looking door will have some nics, dings, runs, hair, dust, whatever that makes it feel less than desirable. Sanding knocks down all the imperfections. If you just prime without any sanding, the door will feel no different. Heck, most nice enamels will stick without priming, so forget the primer then?
> 
> And since I don't use Behr finish, I have to strain my enamel to I don't put the above mentioned back on the door.


Thanks God! I'm reading this post thinking there is more than one reason for sanding. I sanded for the purposes of removing nicks, nibs, hair, etc. Clean it to remove dust, spot prime raw wood and paint. I have used gloss off on occasion, but not enough to make it part of a system.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Stuff don't sand well when its dirty-greasy.


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

TJ Paint said:


> Stuff don't sand well when its dirty-greasy.


Yes. A general cleaning first eliminates sanding the dirt and grime into the substrate.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

epretot said:


> Yes. A general cleaning first eliminates sanding the dirt and grime into the substrate.


 General cleaning.... Does a duster count? :jester:


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

Jmayspaint said:


> General cleaning.... Does a duster count? :jester:


If it remove grime...yes.


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## loaded brush (Dec 27, 2007)

the paintman said:


> As I have said so many times before. Even so called "experenced" painters make thecrucial mistake of thinking you don't have to sand or deGloss enamel before painting. Trust me and the above postor on this one, and you won't lose your shirt someday.


Where adhesion is concerned, the above statement might apply 10 years ago. But if one is up to date on current products, today's primers are outstanding for adhesion to enamels without deglossing or sanding. Many primers (oil, shellac, and water based) are made to adhere to ceramic, glass, and metal without etching of any type. I painted many surfaces of this type, including enameled trim over the past few years without deglossing or sanding prior to the first coat of primer, and found the results were outstanding from doing yearly follow ups with my clients. Sanding definitely needed in between coats for a smooth finish, but not necessary for initial bond when using proper primer. Also priming ensures covering 100 percent of the surface , whereas deglossing with a rag cannot get into all crevices or corners and is a set up for failure


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Most of the bonding primers still recommend sanding with 220 prior to priming. It can only help.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

I think the most critical part is having a very clean and contaminent free surface. But I feel better deglossing as well.

Hey do what you want. Lol it don't matter to me.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

I just sub it out to TJ :thumbsup:


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