# What the.... What?



## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

This morning I get the trailer loaded up for an interior. Prime and paint new rooms. Get to the job site only to find out the drywall guy primed. OK, sucks but ok. The real kicker is the contractor we got the job through just told me painting wasn't in his bid and he doesn't even know if we actually have the job or not. Really? Dude we have done 20 jobs for you and you couldn't let me know any of the 6 times we talked since last Thursday. I'm so mad right now. This is a first for us.


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

That's BS. What the hell?


----------



## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Signature*



cdpainting said:


> This morning I get the trailer loaded up for an interior. Prime and paint new rooms. Get to the job site only to find out the drywall guy primed. OK, sucks but ok. The real kicker is the contractor we got the job through just told me painting wasn't in his bid and he doesn't even know if we actually have the job or not. Really? Dude we have done 20 jobs for you and you couldn't let me know any of the 6 times we talked since last Thursday. I'm so mad right now. This is a first for us.


I hate to state the obvious, but perhaps its time that you started making a habit of getting a signature on a proposal from clients and contractors you do work for before putting forth the effort to load up your gear and head off to the job. 

If your contractor (or customer/client) has to go through the effort to actually read and sign your proposal and then make the effort to return it to you, then the ball would actually be back in your court. He won't be able to tell you what he just did on this job without looking foolish when he sees his signature that authorized you to do the work you showed up to do. My guess is that if he has to sign and authorize your work on a job and be responsible for paying you, then he will hopefully get authorization from the paying customer first.

Been where you are at and done that before. I try not to do it again if I can help it.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/signature

futtyos


----------



## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

futtyos said:


> I hate to state the obvious, but perhaps its time that you started making a habit of getting a signature on a proposal from clients and contractors you do work for before putting forth the effort to load up your gear and head off to the job.
> 
> If your contractor (or customer/client) has to go through the effort to actually read and sign your proposal and then make the effort to return it to you, then the ball would actually be back in your court. He won't be able to tell you what he just did on this job without looking foolish when he sees his signature that authorized you to do the work you showed up to do. My guess is that if he has to sign and authorize your work on a job and be responsible for paying you, then he will hopefully get authorization from the paying customer first.
> 
> ...


After a long talk with the contractor he said since we last did work for him he changed the way he operates. He now has foreman running jobs which again was never mentioned to me and that the painting is now left to the home owner to pick the painter and color.

I chatted with the owner this morning and we both thought it was through the contractor. I found out after she left for work about the owner has to hire a painter herself. She asked my to color match a wall and trim. After I found out it's still possibly not our job I locked her home up and left. Now trying to get their contact info is like pulling teeth. Both Carly and I decided we will not do this job or any more jobs for this contractor.


----------



## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Thought in another thread that you had 4 great contractors you worked for and won't work for others because you can pick and choose your jobs?

Well, crap occurs doesn't it? Obviously to some more than others....


----------



## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Wolfgang said:


> Thought in another thread that you had 4 great contractors you worked for and won't work for others because you can pick and choose your jobs?
> 
> Well, crap occurs doesn't it? Obviously to some more than others....


This was one of the 4. And yes we will not work for any others. When they change they way they operate their business all other trades are left in the dark. So now we have 3 great contractors we will work with.

I know stuff changes but like I said never anything like this.

We have turned more work away so far this year than most on here will get all season. So yeah we pick and choose.


----------



## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Wolfgang said:


> Thought in another thread that you had 4 great contractors you worked for and won't work for others because you can pick and choose your jobs?
> 
> Well, crap occurs doesn't it? Obviously to some more than others....




Love it. Wolf I wish we lived closer. Love how you can weave the story throughout all the threads better than most....


----------



## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

It's unfortunate when things like this happen. But it doesn't surprise me. Especially, when priorities during construction typically leave the painting portion at the bottom of the list. But in this case, it seems like the GC had neither respect for, or interest in the painting phase of this project. Which makes me wonder what business development in the relationship, prompted a lack in communication between CD and what was recently presented as a great GC to work for?

I don't think adjusting project management responsibilities should have anything to do with scope of work or a contract agreement.


----------



## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

CApainter said:


> It's unfortunate when things like this happen. But it doesn't surprise me. Especially, when priorities during construction typically leave the painting portion at the bottom of the list. But in this case, it seems like the GC had neither respect for, or interest in the painting phase of this project. Which makes me wonder what business development in the relationship, prompted a lack in communication between CD and what was recently presented as a great GC to work for?
> 
> I don't think adjusting project management responsibilities should have anything to do with scope of work or a contract agreement.


It all boils down to the GC needs to make sure he tells his guys running the jobs to check in with progress reports. Also they both need to discuss the daily jobs, know who is doing what and when.

I was talking to the company owner right through Saturday. He failed.to mention and new system he had in place. He also didn't know the drywall guy primed as he was planning on us going it.

Its a new direction for him, so far its not working out and we stopped contractor work because of miss communication and horror shows at the job sites.

If they told me Saturday about this I wouldn't care as much.


----------



## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

cdpainting said:


> It all boils down to the GC needs to make sure he tells his guys running the jobs to check in with progress reports. Also they both need to discuss the daily jobs, know who is doing what and when.
> 
> I was talking to the company owner right through Saturday. He failed.to mention and new system he had in place. He also didn't know the drywall guy primed as he was planning on us going it.
> 
> ...


I'm still not sure if the GC's company reorganization, in terms of project oversight, has anything to do with how they reward contracts to subs. 

As futtyos alluded to, this seems like a situation where contractor best practices were avoided in favor of word of mouth and less paper work. But I can see how that can happen when the jobs are rolling in faster than anyone can come to any agreement.

It's kind of reminiscent of the early 2000's hay days, where everything was rubberstamped. That is until the ink ran dry.


----------



## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Good communication and good contracts solve a lot of problems.

A good contract with the GC and you"re more than halfway there. As painters working residential, we also have to have a good, open line of communication with the homeowners.

When you start to put all your eggs in one basket with a group of contractors, one can always tip the basket. You have to understand the mentality of General Contractors. They will always look for ways to cut costs and try and eke out a little more profit for their end of the project. They know that the electrical, plumbing, and hvac are basically fixed costs to them. Usually they have their own carpenters, so that also is a fixed cost. That leaves the drywall guys and the painters where they look to cut costs. If the drywall guy is talked down on his pricing, there's a good chance he's going to offer to prime to make an extra buck or two. After all, "it's only painting, and only primer at that".

Now, you know that your material and labor costs are actually fixed costs to you. That leaves your markup/profit margin as about the only area that takes the hit. Somewhere, there's always a painter or company that isn't looking for the $100-200 per hour labor rate. And, there's a darn good possibility that they have some competent and skilled painters who can do the job as professionally as you can.

So, what you're left with is selling your company, your professionalism in all aspects of the business, and the services you provide. Contracts and communication enhances that.

I made a lot of money in the business. Wish I could say it was all from the painting/finishing end but, it was the other services I provided that gave me the icing on the cake so that I could invest in other venues.

As the old adage goes: "Every once in a while the sun shines on the a55 of a dog."


----------



## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

As a rule we do not work with contractors. We work directly with homeowners. 
It's a better win-win for you and homeowners. 
If we do work for a contractor, which is rare, we charge a premium.
Get enough homeowners business and ditch the GC bullchit


----------



## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Wolfgang said:


> Good communication and good contracts solve a lot of problems.
> 
> A good contract with the GC and you"re more than halfway there. As painters working residential, we also have to have a good, open line of communication with the homeowners.
> 
> ...


Communication on my end was just as any single one of you would have done. It's not my fault contract or not that i wasn't informed especially after just going over the details with the GC. As for all our eggs in one basket we are and were sick and tired of the way GC around here work. A few do good and jobs are smooth but not worth our time as the money is not there. We did just fine for 5 years without contractor work. 90% of our work is repaints so sorry we are not putting all of our eggs in one basket. If the GC's didnt pay good money we wouldn't be doing their work.


----------



## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Dave, you sound pissy with Wolf. He gave you some pretty fair insite from his life and I would take it as that- meant to help not tear you down. At the end of the day you can do whatever you want and your responsible for you. It would seem you spend a fair amount of time complaining about bad GCs or unscrupulous competition. My .02 cents (which doesn't matter much) is you roll with the punches. Life's not fair. Do what you can to not have tons of issues and move on. Sorry your morning was [email protected] Wolf did quite fine with himself and instead of hearing the negative in his comments- glean the wisdom from them. Heck don't listen at all. It's your prerogative. 

There are honestly very very few I highly esteem on this board and Wolf is at the the top of the pack in my eyes. That's someone who ripped and rolled the American dream right there. I'd take all you can from the pearls he tosses out from time to time.


----------



## Delta Painting (Apr 27, 2010)

Wolf is the shizzle in my book, Offers up some solid advice...

We all have those days it's in the past move on..


----------



## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Thanks. But first it needs to be noted that I learned from a really good guy and the rest from making my share of mistakes. I've worked with a total of three general contractors in my entire time owning the business. We all had a good understanding of the business, a great deal of mutual respect for one another, and some good moral business values. We all learned from each other so to speak.

I don't have all the answers by far. Even being out of the business, I still learn from this site. Over the years, I've watched a few of the members hear really succeed. Para would definitely be one of them. He's still in it every day and is more up to date on things than I am any more.

When we think we have all the answers and don't learn from others, we may still succeed, but I truly believe our progress stagnates.

A lot of my business acumen was from just exercising common sense and treating everyone else how I wanted to be treated. It seems we don't mind spending money on new equipment, but are hesitant to spend the money for good legal advice on drafting a contract. Why? The contract will cover your butt more than that new festool will.

I've had 4 former employees go out on their own. They all started as apprentices. Some would be mad about it. I took it as a compliment. Helped them with advice when asked, sent them jobs when they got slow starting out. They're still going strong. That has been my definition of success. The money was just a bonus.


----------



## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

I painted some stuff today and got paid. It was great.

The only negative is...the old lady talked the entire time. And some of that was pretty nice.


----------



## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Paradigmzz said:


> Dave, you sound pissy with Wolf. He gave you some pretty fair insite from his life and I would take it as that- meant to help not tear you down. At the end of the day you can do whatever you want and your responsible for you. It would seem you spend a fair amount of time complaining about bad GCs or unscrupulous competition. My .02 cents (which doesn't matter much) is you roll with the punches. Life's not fair. Do what you can to not have tons of issues and move on. Sorry your morning was [email protected] Wolf did quite fine with himself and instead of hearing the negative in his comments- glean the wisdom from them. Heck don't listen at all. It's your prerogative.
> 
> There are honestly very very few I highly esteem on this board and Wolf is at the the top of the pack in my eyes. That's someone who ripped and rolled the American dream right there. I'd take all you can from the pearls he tosses out from time to time.


Honestly I have never liked him so if I sound pissy that's why. We all won't see eye to eye or get along that is why I ignore most of his comments and a few other members.


----------



## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Well thank you Dave....lol.

Is it because I see through your posting bull5hit? How there's no continuity from one thread to another in your stories?

You post all of your complaints and woes over and over like it's a FB page. Yet, you never post how you're going to rectify the situations. You're business is like a living example of the definition of insanity. You thrive on the Crisis and Drama because that's how you seek attention. Just a constant, on-going need for it. And you think others here don't see it also? Lol

But you're still here because we see it as a form of entertainment. If you started most of your posts with "Once upon a time....", it would probably more of a learning experience for the newbies.

Sorta like the thread you started saying you were done with PT. Heck, we didn't even have enough time to get a pool going on how soon you'd be back.

So just continue doing what you seem to do best. I can always use a good chuckle or laugh.

Wolf


----------



## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Wolfgang said:


> Well thank you Dave....lol.
> 
> Is it because I see through your posting bull5hit? How there's no continuity from one thread to another in your stories?
> 
> ...


No I just can't stand you at all. Since day 1 I was here never liked your posts.

I could care less what half of you here think.

As for facebook groups. I could care less even more. If I did I would join the 7 that are sending me requests to join.

Maybe it is time for me to just leave here. Go ahead make your bet Wolf hope you win and stuff it up your ass.


----------



## getrex (Feb 13, 2017)

Just curious... but were you one of those kids that had to do a lot of extra laps in school?


----------



## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Sigh.....pool anyone?


----------



## getrex (Feb 13, 2017)

18 hours.


----------



## Delta Painting (Apr 27, 2010)

Man I give it 2 weeks... SH!t he's probably popped back in already..


----------



## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

cdpainting said:


> No I just can't stand you at all. Since day 1 I was here never liked your posts.
> 
> I could care less what half of you here think.
> 
> ...


For Wolfgang's sake, I hope it's not an iPad.


----------



## HC-Raad (Jan 26, 2017)

cdpainting said:


> No I just can't stand you at all. Since day 1 I was here never liked your posts.
> 
> I could care less what half of you here think.
> 
> ...


Aren't you the guy that makes $85/hr?


----------



## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

you never had the job

NO CONTRACT = NO JOB

bottom line it is a business ... 
painting business is based on written contracts per job

DO NOT STEP ON A JOB WITH OUT A CONTRACT


----------



## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

I won the first pool. I'm sure you all remember the "I think I'm done here" thread.

To win it twice wouldn't be fair. I will bow out of this one.


----------



## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

the joys of new construction


----------



## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

OMG guys! Stop it!:sad:


----------



## getrex (Feb 13, 2017)

Kitty power!


----------



## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

getrex said:


> Kitty power!


Weirdo:wink:


----------



## getrex (Feb 13, 2017)

Thank you.


----------



## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

getrex said:


> Thank you.


Wisey, is that you? :smile:


----------



## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

fauxlynn said:


> Wisey, is that you? :smile:


One could only hope. He would have flipped out by now if it was. Lol.


----------



## getrex (Feb 13, 2017)

fauxlynn said:


> Wisey, is that you? :smile:




Nope, sorry. Just a plain old weirdo. But I can do tricks! Watch this:


----------



## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

That was an awesome trick! Do it again!


----------



## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

I know you're not Wisey,lol...

I missed the trick, do it again s l o w e r


----------



## getrex (Feb 13, 2017)

Okay, now watch closely.. and go:


----------



## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

Sigh....i shoulda read all the pages first.:/

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

getrex said:


> Okay, now watch closely.. and go:



Okay, enough of you. I'm not allowed to flirt with anyone here anymore,it's in the PT rule book.


----------



## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Who did you have that internet trist with on here again? That was great.... i cant remember who it was with.... that was an epic thread or few....


How much wine was involved again? :vs_whistle:


----------



## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Paradigmzz said:


> Who did you have that internet trist with on here again? That was great.... i cant remember who it was with.... that was an epic thread or few....
> 
> 
> How much wine was involved again? :vs_whistle:


Don't go there. I am betting it's still painful to her.


----------



## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Wrll crap. I Just barely remember. Wasnt trying to be mean. Love ya Lynn!


----------



## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

Don't worry about it.

I'm blaming it all on the Russians and fake news...well,and the wine.


----------



## HC-Raad (Jan 26, 2017)

fauxlynn said:


> Okay, enough of you. I'm not allowed to flirt with anyone here anymore,it's in the PT rule book.


Thanks to the mods for their golden rules. :wink:
For you (if you are not already there): www.pof.com :devil3:


----------



## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

HC-Raad said:


> Thanks to the mods for their golden rules. :wink:
> For you (if you are not already there): www.pof.com :devil3:


Dude you need to keep up a little better. Lol.


----------



## getrex (Feb 13, 2017)

fauxlynn said:


> Okay, enough of you. I'm not allowed to flirt with anyone here anymore,it's in the PT rule book.




Is that what we were doing? 🙈🙉🙊


----------



## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

getrex said:


> Is that what we were doing? 🙈🙉🙊


No, but when I'm bored I can go 0 to 60 lickety split. 
If you look closely at the PT rules in the fine print it says,'Don't encourage fauxlynn in to bad behavior '

As for original OP, Dave is not the first to walk into a job without a contract. I bet most of us have done it.


----------



## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

fauxlynn said:


> No, but when I'm bored I can go 0 to 60 lickety split.
> If you look closely at the PT rules in the fine print it says,'Don't encourage fauxlynn in to bad behavior '
> 
> As for original OP, Dave is not the first to walk into a job without a contract. I bet most of us have done it.


But he is the first to tell a PT mod to stuff an award up their butt. hee hee!


----------



## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

CApainter said:


> But he is the first to tell a PT mod to stuff an award up their butt. hee hee!


I don't know about that. .... maybe publicly.


----------



## getrex (Feb 13, 2017)

fauxlynn said:


> No, but when I'm bored I can go 0 to 60 lickety split.
> 
> 
> If you look closely at the PT rules in the fine print it says,'Don't encourage fauxlynn in to bad behavior '.




Maybe I should read the rules then.....


----------



## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

CApainter said:


> But he is the first to tell a PT mod to stuff an award up their butt. hee hee!




And then Wolf thanked the post. Was that not classic?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

slinger58 said:


> And then Wolf thanked the post. Was that not classic?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No excuse for not having manners. Add to that a little passive-aggressive facetiousness......


----------



## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

getrex said:


> Maybe I should read the rules then.....


Let me know when you find it...


----------



## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

We actually considered having a romance section on the forum. We were going to call it "Lynn's Boodwah", or some fancy French name. Don't remember why it didn't evolve.


----------



## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

I think the reason was because even though all the Mods are male, we have Cricket and Helen as our bosses. Add to that, we're all married, so we just decided that having three women controlling us was enough.


----------



## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

Wolfgang said:


> We actually considered having a romance section on the forum. We were going to call it "Lynn's Boodwah", or some fancy French name. Don't remember why it didn't evolve.


I thought it was called Random Thoughts....


----------



## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

I think you're fibbing.


Although, it would benefit me greatly if we had a section called ' Ask A Guy'. I need it.


----------



## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

fauxlynn said:


> I think you're fibbing.
> 
> 
> Although, it would benefit me greatly if we had a section called ' Ask A Guy'. I need it.


I was.:biggrin:

"Ask a Guy"? That's what PM's are for.:wink:


----------



## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

But, I will say this Lynn; the appearance and quality of your projects are some of the best I've seen. Wish I had that kind of talent.


----------



## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

An "Ask a Guy " thread?!
Lol. I can only imagine how deep the BS would get. 
And how fast.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

Wolfgang said:


> I was.:biggrin:
> 
> "Ask a Guy"? That's what PM's are for.:wink:


Yeah, so whenever I PM a married guy on here, they get very nervous. Lol



Wolfgang said:


> But, I will say this Lynn; the appearance and quality of your projects are some of the best I've seen. Wish I had that kind of talent.


Thank you. Now I'm going to cry.




slinger58 said:


> An "Ask a Guy " thread?!
> Lol. I can only imagine how deep the BS would get.
> And how fast.
> 
> ...


Aw, really? You guys would tell me straight, wouldn't you? My girlfriends are idiots that have stupid opinions and advice. :vs_laugh:


----------



## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

fauxlynn said:


> Yeah, so whenever I PM a married guy on here, they get very nervous. Lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have that effect on women for some reason.....
You should be proud of your professional skills.


----------



## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

I was thinking of the "Ask a Guy" as I was taking my grandson home. For some reason, the words from John Prine's song "Dear Abby" came to mind.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

CApainter said:


> But he is the first to tell a PT mod to stuff an award up their butt. hee hee!


Most definitely not the first long time member that has gone down in flames versus a mod...


----------



## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Wolfgang said:


> I have that effect on women for some reason.....
> You should be proud of your professional skills.


You are talking about her painting, right? :wink:


----------



## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Paradigmzz said:


> Most definitely not the first long time member that has gone down in flames versus a mod...


For some reason, Mods always win.


----------



## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Wolfgang said:


> For some reason, Mods always win.


It's due to our high bacon diets.


----------



## getrex (Feb 13, 2017)

You can ask me anything Lynn. But my answers might scare you.


----------



## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

getrex said:


> You can ask me anything Lynn. But my answers might scare you.


You haven't earned my trust yet.

But I will ask you a question. Did the Dirty Dozen send you?


----------



## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

slinger58 said:


> I was thinking of the "Ask a Guy" as I was taking my grandson home. For some reason, the words from John Prine's song "Dear Abby" came to mind.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Good song. Great song writer.


----------



## getrex (Feb 13, 2017)

Only if you are talking about the other dirty dozen.


----------



## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

getrex said:


> Only if you are talking about the other dirty dozen.











I am!


If that's the case, we can't be friends.


----------



## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

I'm kidding.Meow.


----------



## getrex (Feb 13, 2017)

Woof.


----------



## HC-Raad (Jan 26, 2017)

getrex said:


> Woof.


The Anonymous Tard getting some faux action. GET A ROOM love birds! :vs_box:


----------



## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

HC-Raad said:


> The Anonymous Tard getting some faux action. GET A ROOM love birds! :vs_box:


Aw man, you got it all wrong. I was just being friendly.


I thought it was pretty clear to everyone that I'm in love with PacMan.


----------



## getrex (Feb 13, 2017)

So you have a nipple fetish then?


----------



## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

1. Are you trying to get me banned?
2. That's between me and him.
3. I just threw up in my mouth a little.


----------



## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

I'm thinking that this thread has run it's course. Time to shut er' down before...


----------



## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Wait!!! You closed the thread??? Damn......................


----------



## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Wolfgang said:


> Wait!!! You closed the thread??? Damn......................


Sorry Wolf. Unlike you, I'm not Mr. Nice Guy Anything Goes. I have a reputation to uphold. :devil3:


----------



## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

That's some funny stuff there.


----------

