# Turn em or ignore?



## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

What would you do if you were part of a job, or even saw a job that was obviously not in compliance of RRP. I realize there could be several scenarios, but in general, what would you do?


----------



## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Mind my own business and make sure I was compliant.


----------



## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Mind my own business and make sure I was compliant.


I feel the same way. However.... if they were illegal aliens? ..... I have an issue with them anyways and would not feel bad at all ratting them out.  **** em


----------



## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

As painters, aren't we the last ones out of a project? Wouldn't that assume we are responible for any lead containg dust upon final gloved inspection? 

I think whom ever is assuming responsibility upon completion would determine my involvement in a non compliant project.


----------



## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

CApainter said:


> As painters, aren't we the last ones out of a project? Wouldn't that assume we are responible for any lead containg dust upon final gloved inspection?
> 
> I think whom ever is assuming responsibility upon completion would determine my involvement in a non compliant project.


Yes, very good point.:yes:


----------



## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

CApainter said:


> As painters, aren't we the last ones out of a project? Wouldn't that assume we are responible for any lead containg dust upon final gloved inspection?
> 
> I think whom ever is assuming responsibility upon completion would determine my involvement in a non compliant project.


If ANY job would make me non-compliant with ANY state or federal laws. I'd be showing them the back of my cool green shirts. :thumbup:


----------



## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Mind my own business and make sure I was compliant.


This is kind of how I see it as well.


----------



## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Mind my own business and make sure I was compliant.


:yes:


----------



## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

So in order to be compliant, anyone figure out how to catch power washing water yet?


----------



## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

DeanV said:


> So in order to be compliant, anyone figure out how to catch power washing water yet?


There are a number of water recovery systems out on the market but they are pricey.


----------



## VanDamme (Feb 13, 2010)

I voted only if I had a stake in it. I take that to mean if I already had the job and saw a contractor not following RRP guidelines. At that point, I'd talk to the GC about it and see if we couldn't all get compliant. If not, I'd walk.

Of course, this is hypothetical because I'm not stepping foot on an RRP job! :no:


----------



## In Demand (Mar 24, 2008)

I spent alot of time this past week at a couple of paint stores, bought the guys some lunch, helped them paint a restroom, handed out some competitors color decks. Talked to alot of the painters that I know. Every guy I talked to said they werent going to do any of the houses built prior to 78. Now I know that all sounds good in theory, but once you have 100 painters battling it out for the door jambs and garage door trim on alot of these newer homes they will start to realize that they aint making much in the summer. I figure after awhile guys will get hungry and try to fly in under the radar and work on the older homes, and when they do this I will take pictures of them whenever I run across them and make sure I get good shots of everything including their vehicles and license plates.
I am trying to play by the rules, and I wont stand by and allow someone to cheat and try to take jobs that he is not qualified to do. The law is the law, and it is no different then hiring illegals if you break this one. 
I dont like the law and I wish it never happened, but I will be professional and comply with it, and I will be the first guy on the phone when I run across someone breaking it. 
The law sucks, but I am looking at it as a way to distance my company from the hacks and fly by nights. When life hands you lemons ....... throw them at the guy who is screwing you over, even if it is indirectly.


----------



## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

ModernStyle said:


> and when they do this I will take pictures of them whenever I run across them and make sure I get good shots of everything including their vehicles and license plates.
> I am trying to play by the rules, and I wont stand by and allow someone to cheat and try to take jobs that he is not qualified to do. The law is the law, and it is no different then hiring illegals if you break this one.
> I dont like the law and I wish it never happened, but I will be professional and comply with it, and I will be the first guy on the phone when I run across someone breaking it.
> The law sucks, but I am looking at it as a way to distance my company from the hacks and fly by nights. When life hands you lemons ....... throw them at the guy who is screwing you over, even if it is indirectly.


I hear what you are saying and can not fault you for it but it just is not my style to play informant for the EPA. What if they are RRP certified and you are turning them in for nothing.


----------



## VanDamme (Feb 13, 2010)

ModernStyle said:


> I spent alot of time this past week at a couple of paint stores, bought the guys some lunch, helped them paint a restroom, handed out some competitors color decks. Talked to alot of the painters that I know. Every guy I talked to said they werent going to do any of the houses built prior to 78. Now I know that all sounds good in theory, but once you have 100 painters battling it out for the door jambs and garage door trim on alot of these newer homes they will start to realize that they aint making much in the summer. I figure after awhile guys will get hungry and try to fly in under the radar and work on the older homes, and when they do this I will take pictures of them whenever I run across them and make sure I get good shots of everything including their vehicles and license plates.
> I am trying to play by the rules, and I wont stand by and allow someone to cheat and try to take jobs that he is not qualified to do. The law is the law, and it is no different then hiring illegals if you break this one.
> I dont like the law and I wish it never happened, but I will be professional and comply with it, and I will be the first guy on the phone when I run across someone breaking it.
> The law sucks, but I am looking at it as a way to distance my company from the hacks and fly by nights. When life hands you lemons ....... throw them at the guy who is screwing you over, even if it is indirectly.


Did you get the iSnitch app. for your iPhone? Makes it much easier to snitch someone out! Haha!

This may come as a shocker, but there are plenty of other markets for painting in addition to RRP and trim on new construction. I've done one lead-based job in the past 8 years and that was only because he was a friend. Turned down two others.

RRP (thanks to bureaucracy) has created yet another market for painting. One I do not intend to pursue, just like I do not pursue electrostatic painting, or 20 story commercial exteriors, or industrial painting, etc.

Here's some lead (food) for thought; what happens 6 months from now when the EPA decides that the fines are not supporting the program? Think there might be more enforcement and fines? Oh! You think no problem, I'm compliant? Ever get audited by the IRS? Did you get off with out any penalties or fines? They will find something wrong with your jobsite and you WILL be required to pay a fine.

But that's just a thought


----------



## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

Workaholic said:


> I hear what you are saying and can not fault you for it but it just is not my style to play informant for the EPA. What if they are RRP certified and you are turning them in for nothing.


 
this has been a reoccuring theme (what if they are rrp certified, and you are turning them in for nothing?

the question was what would you do if you saw a job that wasnt rrp compliant.

being certified WONT save you if your not following rrp procedures.

it might make it worse.


----------



## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

There's more important thing to do. Like post on painttalk. :thumbup:


----------



## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

Here are some interesting thoughts.


----------



## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

high fibre said:


> this has been a reoccuring theme (what if they are rrp certified, and you are turning them in for nothing?
> 
> the question was what would you do if you saw a job that wasnt rrp compliant.
> 
> ...


Well my response was to Modernstyles comment and his sounded to me like it was more than just being compliant. 
Either way the EPA is not paying me for my time so chances are I would not be their local watch dog. To each his own though, for those that want to take pictures and turn in other contractors it makes no difference to me, just not my way is all.


----------



## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

Remember, Wisepainter seemed to think that anyone who turned somebody in should be expecting a punch in the mouth. ( hopefully there is a garage door nearby ) 

What about printing up some flyers with the compliance laws, and the lead dangers, and in BIG red letters the fine for any company breaking the law.

Then making sure the homeowner and the contractor both get a copy. You could even do that anonymously, and say that if they do not either get in compliance or cease work on the project they will get turned in. This would give them two options of ways to NOT get turned in on that job, and NOT get in trouble.

That might have the effect of scaring the HO or contractor enough to either get in compliance, or cease work on the project.

You could even do this as a complete *bluff* that either they get in compliance or they will be turned in, and maybe suggest if they don't want to be turned in to cease all work on the project.

That might have the effect of having companies with undocumented workers, and or who are clearly violating RRP laws of simply packing up shop and leaving.

Even as a bluff this might have the an effect on as high as 30-50% of the people who receive the documents to either cease work, or get in compliance. 

That would leave more jobs on the market for those who are in compliance.

Also, even if the contractors had to see that particular job through, they would be scared ****less the entire time, and an even higher percentage than 30%-50% might have that be their last job where they took that risk, which would ALSO leave more jobs on the market for companies who had bid and prepared to be RRP compliant.

You might be able to have a great affect without actually turning anyone in, but simply giving them every reason to fear that they will get turned in.


----------



## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

i would just blackmail them,,,,at least that way it would be profitable.


----------



## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

One thing I forgot to mention.

If one does plan on turning someone in, I think it would be snaky to not be direct and upfront about it, and take responsibility for the ethics that you are applying to others.

I wouldn't be anonymous unless you are bluffing. If you actually have no intention of turning someone in, I don't feel you are obligated to look them in the eye so they know who printed the fliers.

Also, I actually still cant get my mind around turning anyone in at all. 

I was just exploring possible variants for the sake of discussion that are options that either *A:* give them a chance to not get turned in, or *B: *have a significant affect on them even though you have zero intention of turning them in.


----------



## In Demand (Mar 24, 2008)

VanDamme said:


> Did you get the iSnitch app. for your iPhone? Makes it much easier to snitch someone out! Haha!
> 
> This may come as a shocker, but there are plenty of other markets for painting in addition to RRP and trim on new construction. I've done one lead-based job in the past 8 years and that was only because he was a friend. Turned down two others.
> 
> ...


Thats great that you found a niche outside the lead paint game, the thing is all the other guys who wont do pre-78 homes may now start looking at your niche. Doesnt matter if you like it or not, it will effect you.
To me it is no different then the uninsured guys or the illegals, they dont wanna play by the rules so to hell with them.
If I drive by an exterior it will be pretty easy to see if the jobsite is compliant or not, interiors will be a little harder to spot, but it is possible.
If they come inspect my jobsite then I will be compliant, and if I screw up it is nobody's fault but my own, just like the guys who will do the jobs illegally. 
I figure I will do my part to make people aware of the rule and make the rule breakers pay if I can. I dont worry too much about anyone hitting me in the mouth for snitching, I aint no tough guy but I usually do pretty well in a fight.
If they repeal the law then they repeal it and things go back to like they were before, but for now the law is the law and I am forced to comply with it.


----------



## VanDamme (Feb 13, 2010)

ModernStyle said:


> Thats great that you found a niche outside the lead paint game, the thing is all the other guys who wont do pre-78 homes may now start looking at your niche. Doesnt matter if you like it or not, it will effect you.
> To me it is no different then the uninsured guys or the illegals, they dont wanna play by the rules so to hell with them.
> If I drive by an exterior it will be pretty easy to see if the jobsite is compliant or not, interiors will be a little harder to spot, but it is possible.
> If they come inspect my jobsite then I will be compliant, and if I screw up it is nobody's fault but my own, just like the guys who will do the jobs illegally.
> ...


Well then.......I guess your self-appointed duty is to drive around and snitch other contractors out. Good luck with that!

I do just fine in my little "niche" as you call it. It's called painting. :thumbup:


----------



## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

my buddy owns a thriving used car dealership. (2 used car dealerships, 3 new car dealerships at different locations)

a fella across the road started to "curb" cars.

you can only curb a certain number of cars before you need a license.

he called the authorities.

this fella was trying to ride on the coat tails of the hard work of the dealership.

problem solved.

i can understand not liking snitches, i can relate. dealing dope and painting houses are two different things imo.


----------



## In Demand (Mar 24, 2008)

VanDamme said:


> Well then.......I guess your self-appointed duty is to drive around and snitch other contractors out. Good luck with that!
> 
> I do just fine in my little "niche" as you call it. It's called painting. :thumbup:


I wasnt trying to belittle anything about you or what you do, I was just pointing out that the jobs that are not RRP related may become very scarce with the added competition of eveyone avoiding the 1978 and earlier homes. Which could lead to guys trying to slash prices to get the jobs.
I am sure that your quality will shine through and you will land more jobs then ever, so you have nothing to worry about. But some of the other less skilled slobs of the painting industry might be in a pinch.
Good luck in all of your endeavors also.


----------



## Roamer (Jul 5, 2010)

If a HO is willing to go with the less expensive option of the non-compliant painter then it is arguable that even if you snitch on the non-compliant guy that you would not increase your work load at all. The HO will just find another non-compliant option, especially if price is the prime motivator.

There will always be customers that are willing to use uninsured painters because getting the lowest price is the primary objective for them. You will never get their business, nor should you waste time seeking it. Likewise, why bother snitching on a fellow contractor for work you wouldn't win in any case?

Are you a member of the PDCA? Would you snitch on a fellow member?

Taking this approach can only serve to come back and bite you somehow. You better make sure that all of your t's are crossed and your i's dotted. from no on because you just made an enemy out of a fellow painter.


----------



## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Good point Roamer. I have mixed emotions on this one. I still think a rat is a rat. It was what we learned from childhood on in my old neighborhood ever since I was a kid growing up in the big city. I have never turned in an unlisensed contractor all though I have been tempted at times. However, these days... if there where to be a dope house in my neighborhood I wouldnt hesitate to turn them in. And thats only because I dont happen to own a bull dozer.


----------

