# Guardz



## sagebrush123 (Mar 11, 2011)

Well, after reading about this stuff and now remembering that I had used it on a job/bedroom several years ago to seal a REALLY chalky surface of an old craftsman house....after peeling off layers of paint.

I was told by an employee of Dunn Edwards (who seemed to always have great suggestions) where I was getting my paints from at the time

I do remember liking the way this stuff would absorb into the wall and not cover or lay ontop like regular primers.

This particular room I brush and rolled it...

but I am asking anyone here who has used it more than myself, and uses it as a new construction sealer.....
is it best to roll it ON for optimum penetration or will it penetrate the same with spraying? or combo?

I suppose I can make a test run over the weekend before I start this project NC....but it would sure be a time saver to just know the best results via some other experiences.


I am very happy to have found this forum.


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## jsheridan (Mar 12, 2011)

Though I've worked around it enough, I don't spray myself these days. I wouldn't trust any material with just a spray on to penetrate, just based on principles of application. Without that massage from the brush or roller, I wouldn't trust the material wouldn't just lay on the surface, especially new drywall, especially if it dries quickly. All of your subsequent coats are based on the success of the first, is it worth the chance? I'm interested in the use of Gardz for sealing glue residue from paper removal, any thoughts on that? I'd like to get away from Cover Stain for that purpose.


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## briancreary (Oct 12, 2010)

Where are you guys even buying Guardz? I've checked local Sherwin and HD and neither carries it, and my interest is certainly going up the more you guys talk about it. just curious where it is usually sold as an "off the shelf item."


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## jsheridan (Mar 12, 2011)

All the talk is getting my interest up as well. I'm not even sure where to buy, thanks for making me think about that. You might try the Ace's, true values, or any place that carries wallpaper, it might be a stock item for wallpaperers. Or, go to Zinsser's site and they should be able to tell you who stocks it in your area, better yet.


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## crazyson2001 (Jan 3, 2010)

Most of the independent paint stores seem to carry Gardz. The ACE Hardware just around the corner from my house sells it as well, and their pricing is actually pretty decent ($18 something a Gal).


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Our local Lowes and Home Depot carried it up until recently. They drop anything that doesnt move off the shelves. Its such a niche product but works incredibly good. It took me a bit to get comfortable with applying a watery product but after you see how it can save you so many headaches - you'll deal with it too.

Our Glidden Professional store stocks GARDZ. Jeff & Scott are awesome for getting in things that work! :thumbsup: Wooster, Zinsser and great paints... what else do you need, really. :whistling2:


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

I have also become a great convert to Gardz- I' keep finding more ways to use it for different problems.
A local chain here started stocking a relabled version of all the Zinsser products and calls it "All Prime". Gardz is called All Prime- Problem Surface Solver. 
I think they did that because the paint stores couldn't compete with the boxes for price, so it makes it look like a different product, even though it's not. 
Just adds confusion if you ask me. 
I don't know how widespread this is , but maybe keep you eyes open for it


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## sagebrush123 (Mar 11, 2011)

well-

I guess the call is that it is best to spray it and roll it in...I will take a start in a room upstairs and check out what ration/amount that will create a great sealed start.

I was fully impressed by what I saw in that room with those chalky walls. I didn't know if the chalk was from an ageing process since the house was really old...or part of a plaster material....or if it was lead or not....but I didn't want to disturb it from lack of knowing and intuitively I knew with this chalk-like powder look, the typical oil primer was not going to stick...so I got to talking to a guy at this Dunn Edwards paint store in San Diego...where I usually shopped for every job....and he whips up the can of this Zinsser stuff and says how nicely it will work...and IT did!

and reading here and finding this site, I AM going to try our ACE and get a room dialed in...to see where I stand on this HUGE project.

I know that SW is where I shop now that I live here in WV and I have had problems with adhesion of my top coats after using 200 product line...including using the 200 primer. NOT major issues.....just some issues, that I don't want to deal with and be worried about.

The next route if Gardz is not available at Ace or elsewhere nearby, I go back to SW for pro-block, or something a step up from the 200 primer.

I am a fan of the look of the proclassic for the trim/or I am debating using a modified acrylic alkyd....because I am NO on any oil.

There are not many other choices, although our ace here carries BM(some of the products--not all. Like no Impervo.

Anyway...in CA my typical system was Dunn Edwards which I liked well, worked well with and the products performed excellent...and off-shoots to BM for other specialty items.

In Ca. it was not any effort to get customers to ok prices of quality paint. Here in WV- it seems everything is down to the buck....but you get what you pay for AND why not do it correctly the first time. If you did not have money to start with to buy something decent, where does the money come from to buy more to do it again or do it over again soon?

(I like to vent-thank you very much)


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

http://www.thepaintstore.com/Zinsser_Gardz_Drywall_Sealer_p/02304.htm


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

Chris- the shipping on a gal adds $17.50 to me. Paint products are heavy.


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## [email protected] (Mar 1, 2008)

Gardz is on SW and Glidden buy list just have them order it in for you. Talk to the store manger not the kid behind the counter. 
David


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## paintr56 (Jan 21, 2010)

jsheridan said:


> Though I've worked around it enough, I don't spray myself these days. I wouldn't trust any material with just a spray on to penetrate, just based on principles of application. Without that massage from the brush or roller, I wouldn't trust the material wouldn't just lay on the surface, especially new drywall, especially if it dries quickly. All of your subsequent coats are based on the success of the first, is it worth the chance? I'm interested in the use of Gardz for sealing glue residue from paper removal, any thoughts on that? I'd like to get away from Cover Stain for that purpose.



I don't know that I would seal over the glue residue, but it works great once you have cleaned the majority of the residue off. It will lock down any slight glue residue that was missed, and seals any spots where the face of the drywall may have gotten torn. I use it anytime the cleanliness or soundness of the wall is in doubt after removing paper and washing the walls. 

Ace carries it in my town or Glidden Professionals 20 miles away where I buy the majority of my paint.

Jim


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

BrushJockey said:


> Chris- the shipping on a gal adds $17.50 to me. Paint products are heavy.


Well ,I only posted that to show that it IS availiable; and has been posted ,just go to any SW and ask


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

sage,

Possibly that chalky stuff was calcimine??? I know people who use it for that - I am not convinced, yet.

jsheridan,

Please wash the *paste* residue as paintr56 describes. I don't care WHAT the can says, if there are any problems, the big Z will NOT honor any kind of warranty. BTDT. 

I knew a painter/paperhanger who said he washed the *paste* off, primed with Gardz, and then hung a commercial grade vinyl. Many seams popped. I could NOT repair them. The big Z offered a pittance plus demanded a release signed. This indicated to me they knew they owed responsibility but wanted an out.

(BTW *glue* is an adhesive normally comprised from animal products or synthetic polymers. Wallpaper is normally hung with _*paste*_ - a water soluble starch adhesive. And yes, I and others are terminology Nazis. Why? Because we care)


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

Actually Bill, that's the first I've heard of Gardz failing at being a paper primer. Anyone else? 
Just when I (according to PWG) thought i had the perfect paper primer. 
I'm looking at a fairly smallish 54" job tomorrow, and that was my plan.


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## sagebrush123 (Mar 11, 2011)

This may be way to much info that is NOT pertinent. I will find a great balance eventually.

For ME, I will drive 1 hour to Portsmouth, Oh. to buy 2/5's of Gardz. And then from there I can have more ordered thru SW or thru a company called PPG(pittsburg paints)

I am willing to try it over new drywall, because I do remember an instant love with it working on the old craftsman house.(think it was build in the 30's) I am not sure if it was calcimine, as stated above. But, it worked exceptionally well over it. I know this person personally and professionally and had worked numerous jobs thru he being she is a cost estimator....she would have let me know otherwise. The original issue was stress cracks in the walls all over the room and when I opened the cracks it was easy to rip off layers of paint...finally getting to the chalky layer.....and BTW I used a killer elastomeric patching compound from BM that comes in smooth or textured finish.


I, too spent years in cover stain. If I never see it again I will be ok. I think it works well, however..it stinks. I spent alot of time priming acoustic ceilings/popcorn with that stuff, which was OVERKILL, but it was not my call.

Anytime I strip wallpaper, I do my best to rid the wall of paste, or whatever is able to be activated with my solution for removal. And if it turns into a real bear, and is like super glue-I skim over it 2X. 

I find that all jobs are very different and I have no set pattern. I stay open as best as possible ans switch gears as needed. I think it best to try products whether they are cheap or expensive. I am still learning everyday-look at the endless market of materials/technology.


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## DHlll (Dec 22, 2010)

BrushJockey said:


> Actually Bill, that's the first I've heard of Gardz failing at being a paper primer. Anyone else?
> Just when I (according to PWG) thought i had the perfect paper primer.
> I'm looking at a fairly smallish 54" job tomorrow, and that was my plan.


123 is the best paper primer from what i hear from 2 incredible paper hangers that i work with.


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

I used to use 123 before Gardz. I think over time it gets pretty hard and the glue oops i mean PASTE ( hehe) has a hard time keeping hold. The gardz is sort of a sticky surface even when dry, but sealed enough that it has good slip. 
I also have used a mix of both, so it had some coverage.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

I'm just saying not to rely on ANYTHING to penetrate and seal a lot of paste residue.

I have once in awhile coated over some minor paste residue.

Also, when painting, the paint does not exert forces on the surface (except for gravity), but when paper dries it shrinks and exerts quite a bit of lateral force on the surface.


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## Roadog (Apr 18, 2007)

Got a couple wallpaper contractor friends that are not fans of gardz when puttin the vinyl on. I have used it on calcimine with success (been down this road) it used to say it was for that on the can. If you can get Draw Tite you wont go back to gardz.


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## JNLP (Dec 13, 2007)

briancreary said:


> Where are you guys even buying Guardz? I've checked local Sherwin and HD and neither carries it, and my interest is certainly going up the more you guys talk about it. just curious where it is usually sold as an "off the shelf item."


 Last time I bought it at one of the big box stores (don't remember which) it was hidden on the bottom shelve in the wall coverings section, nowhere near the paints/primers. Check there.


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

Home despot doesn't carry it anymore- reg paint stores are a better bet.


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## crays13 (Sep 29, 2008)

Menards carries it if your town has one


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## sagebrush123 (Mar 11, 2011)

somebody in here must be from Indiana....:whistling2:

Menards Rules all stores!


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## sagebrush123 (Mar 11, 2011)

fishing here-

did someone mention mixing gardz and 123..since both are Zinsser products. I will be testing this tomorrow.

I am not familiar with spraying of Gardz...but with backup roller set-up, recovery is possible...I would imagine that it would soak in nicely, while spraying....even with its watery consistency.

and gee I hope it can be applied with .415 or .515 tip....

comments or suggestions are very welcomed....wiseguys


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## jsheridan (Mar 12, 2011)

daArch said:


> sage,
> 
> Possibly that chalky stuff was calcimine??? I know people who use it for that - I am not convinced, yet.
> 
> ...


bill, thanks for the feedback. I don't hang any paper, just rip it down. I always wash and rinse, sometimes two, three times. I use Cover Stain as my barrier coat always. I've been hearing more about Gardz and was hoping that I could get away from CS. However, as you implied, when does Z leave you hanging. If one equals zero "paste" (you word nazi you) and ten equals full paste, at which number on that continuum does Zinsser say they're product is not effective at locking down paste? What does it say on page 12 of their disclaimer ? I'm afraid to take a chance on a latex product locking down paper paste, regardless of what the manufacturer says. I've fallen enough, in my younger, greener days, for latex primers that block water stains, so the can says.


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## Bill from Indy (Jan 29, 2011)

Hey guys,

I do a ton of l5 drywall that is going from vinyl to paint..I use guardz a lot but SW has a product called drywall conditioner that is about the same..I don't know if it will work exactly the same for your situation, but works the same for me for sealing up loose paper...it runs about the same price, although, I have never got it from there in 5g only gal...may give it a shot or at least look in to it...I use it if I can't get guardz when needed


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

jsheridan said:


> bill, thanks for the feedback. I don't hang any paper, just rip it down. I always wash and rinse, sometimes two, three times. I use Cover Stain as my barrier coat always. I've been hearing more about Gardz and was hoping that I could get away from CS. However, as you implied, when does Z leave you hanging. If one equals zero "paste" (you word nazi you) and ten equals full paste, at which number on that continuum does Zinsser say they're product is not effective at locking down paste? What does it say on page 12 of their disclaimer ? I'm afraid to take a chance on a latex product locking down paper paste, regardless of what the manufacturer says. I've fallen enough, in my younger, greener days, for latex primers that block water stains, so the can says.



Joe,

Numbers from one to ten ??? You know Z would NEVER be caught with their pants around their ankles by giving an absolute LEVEL. 

If I remember correctly, they say something like, "Seals in residual wallpaper paste" (OK OK, that's EXACTLY what they say in their Data Technical Sheet). A "gentleman" named Jack "ass" Ford was Z's point man to the industry (before Rust-o-leum became the conglomerate in charge and yellow slipped him) and he always had a hissy fit when people mentioned mixing products. Well, as I once proposed, isn't applying Gardz over ANY residue paste kind of like throwing a handful of paste into a can ? (He couldn't answer). 

Joe, continue as you are, wash and rinse the residue until you are certain no paste residue remains and then cover with your primer of choice.

I can not bring myself to count on any product that implies it can save a step.


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## crazyson2001 (Jan 3, 2010)

You guys got any secret weapon to speed the clean up process? Can says soap and water, but that final residue is a bear to remove. The beloved Krud Kutter helps, but still requires some extra time for cleanup.

I also wish it would dry faster with less smell. I've had a couple customers complain about it and I kinda agree with them. Its got a weird odor.

I've always been very leery of mixing products, but after hearing some success stories I'm going to run a test sample myself. The Gardz seems to darken the surface it is applied to, especially some joint compounds. So you take a white ceiling, Gardz it which makes it dark, and then paint it white again. Seems counterproductive. So by mixing in some white paint or primer it should stay white while also retaining the sealing affects of the Gardz product. Would also hopefully increase the viscosity of the product slightly. I've gotten much faster at applying Gardz, but the thin consistency took a little getting used to at first. I like the idea of mixing it with Zinnser 1-2-3 since both are from the same manufacturer (which in my mind while certainly no guarantee of a negative reaction from the mixture, reduces the risk of a reaction).


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

crazyson2001 said:


> You guys got any secret weapon to speed the clean up process? Can says soap and water, but that final residue is a bear to remove. The beloved Krud Kutter helps, but still requires some extra time for cleanup.
> 
> I also wish it would dry faster with less smell. I've had a couple customers complain about it and I kinda agree with them. Its got a weird odor.
> 
> I've always been very leery of mixing products, but after hearing some success stories I'm going to run a test sample myself. The Gardz seems to darken the surface it is applied to, especially some joint compounds. So you take a white ceiling, Gardz it which makes it dark, and then paint it white again. Seems counterproductive. So by mixing in some white paint or primer it should stay white while also retaining the sealing affects of the Gardz product. Would also hopefully increase the viscosity of the product slightly. I've gotten much faster at applying Gardz, but the thin consistency took a little getting used to at first. I like the idea of mixing it with Zinnser 1-2-3 since both are from the same manufacturer (which in my mind while certainly no guarantee of a negative reaction from the mixture, reduces the risk of a reaction).


Yeah it has an odor. Just mix some small samples up. Grab 2-3 plastic quart measuring cups and try a 2:1 mix of something flat. Mix up a quart and try it on something. Do a tape test too. 

Not all paints will cover gardz equally. Remember that. Just because your product leaves a faint lack of coverage over gardz doesnt mean another will. 

I understand the whole counterproductive thinking but I know this... I've seen too many paints needing 3-4 coats to cover a patch. Anything in Duration Ultra Deep, yah ... good luck on your profits by recoating patches 4 times.

The 2:1 I did with SherScrub flat barely sprinkled. I didnt drop a drop of that paint off my roller but I roll out of a pan so that helps.

Whatever you mix, post about it and lets us know how it works out. I finished some bare poplar with Gardz last week. You would swear I painted over PVC. The solid sheen I had was insane and I used Benjamin Moore Satin Impervo Waterborne.


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## sagebrush123 (Mar 11, 2011)

Gardz is amazing.

I started this project in the upstairs and used Gardz/1-2-3 combo in this bedroom, bathroom and very large playroom.....

I started with just the gardz but the spraying seemed difficult without super good lighting as it runs very much.....then thought to add 1-2-3 probably because someone here mentioned it...

it worked well...the only thing I could see as a possible issue could be that when I took the Radius sander...some of the coating from the 1-2-3 gets kinda rollly looking smaller than rice debris.....so be sure to brush it down......

I had to then transition to Lowes drywall primer for the rest of the house due to a previous bid set for this job before "i" showed up......

what a laugh.

the comparison of the two is remarkable:

the lowes drywall primer- is still 100% porous and absorbs like crazy..where as the Gardz/1-2-3 combo---it beads off like a ducks back.....and then a taping test verifys that the adhesion is NIL with the lowes drywall primer...and tears back to the drywall....so possible issues when I tape against the base to roll the walls...must be careful!

and even one coat of paint the wall with Gardz/1-2-3 is solid with even rate of little to no absorption....but will be doing two nonetheless.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

sage.. not sure if I posted this pic before but here is the sheen of 2 parts flat to one part Gardz. It was very nice rolling over with Promar 400 flat.



Photo Description: Notice how Gardz exposes the original mudded areas beneath 3 coats of primer and 3 coats of flat paint. (Seriously that is insane!) 
Gardz is simply amazing at taking all that porous surface and equalizing it.

It says on the can Gardz penetrates builder flats. I'll testify to that, even 2:1


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