# Old painter searching for a good cabinet paint



## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

It's tough getting old in this business. Used to be BM Satin Impervo was my go to paint for trim and cabinets. Nowadays solvent borne products have been pretty much ushered out the door. So for the past 4 or 5 years (7 or 8?) I've been trying the new water-borne products. Started with the SW PC acrylic/alkyd. Sprays fine, hard to brush. And slow to cure.

Went to the BM Advance. Sprays great, brushes good. Longer recoat time, but that was okay, really no different from alkyd. Then I used it in a medium gray color on cabs and after 7 days of drying on the racks, the doors still stuck to the face-frames of the cabinets. Actually pulled the paint off in a few places. I told my BM dealer about it and he said it must have been the humidity. I told him it was all done inside with the AC running; he said "it must have been the humidity". Well, sh!t. :no:

Next stop was PPG Breakthrough. RF swears by it and PPG finally came to town here, converting the old ICI/Glidden store to a PPG store. I gave it a shot on a couple of jobs and loved it for the adhesion and fast cure. Brushing, not so much, but I learned to deal with it. Went there today and was informed they weren't going to stock it anymore, but they could order it. 
Deep sigh, here.

So I go to SW and end up with some PC semi-gloss acrylic. Sprayed some today. Looks good. Sprayed airless with 210 FF. Still doesn't level like oil and don't know how the cure time will be, but we'll see. I'm thinking some extender would help for the leveling. Any opinions from those with more experience with PC acrylic would be much appreciated. :yes:


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## radio11 (Aug 14, 2015)

I'm about to try Muralo Ultra for the trim on a residential repaint. This will be the satin. I've read nothing but good things about it. Apparently brushes out well--very similar to Advance. Lays out like oil, grips good and durable. Brush, roll or spray. It ain't cheap though--I was quoted $58-$68 depending on sheen. 

Others on here know a lot more about it, but (other than my price) sounds like the cat's meow in most all applications. Oh yeah, recoat time is half or less than Advance. 


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Give SW's Pro-Industrial Multi Surface a try. Did a murphy bed a few weeks ago for some people and it turned out great.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

I've had good success with both the hybrid and latex versions of pc...haven't used a ton of the hybrid but it brushed out pretty well on some sills and base not long ago...recoat was under 3 hours.
My go to has been pc acrylic satin for years...love it. Pretty forgiving once ya get the hang of it. Thin coats ,quick recoat time, nice finish. Though flotrol does kill the sheen a bit more than I like. I usually dont alter it though unless temps are an issue then i'd consider semi knowing that the flotrol will kill it a bit.Semi is ok if that's what ya like...I'm just not a fan of shiny, glaring things. I prefer a softer look.
It levels well, just keep an eye on it it hangs kinda late so you gotta give it some time (5-10 minutes) and catch it if it runs...if ya just shoot a couple of thin coats ya shouldn't have any problems though...


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## radio11 (Aug 14, 2015)

RH said:


> Give SW's Pro-Industrial Multi Surface a try. Did a murphy bed a few weeks ago for some people and it turned out great.



Using that for the first time in the next few days myself. I'll be spraying one job, but brush/rolling doors on another. How does it brush?


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Used their oil based exterior primer since it was raw wood - powdered out nicely. Thinned the PIMS with a bit of extender then sprayed with a 310 ff, three coats with light sanding between.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

radio11 said:


> Using that for the first time in the next few days myself. I'll be spraying one job, but brush/rolling doors on another. How does it brush?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Haven't done much brushing with it. Would guess you'd need to work it somewhat fast since it dries fairly quickly.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

If they aren't stocking breakthrough try Pitt Tech. It stinks, but it dries quickly, stays a little soft for a while though.


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## PNW Painter (Sep 5, 2013)

Have you looked into the SW Pro Industrial Pre-Catalyzed Water Based Epoxy? 

Another potential option is SW's new Pro Industrial Water Based Alkyd Urethane. I just sprayed the first coat on a trim pack today so we'll see how it looks tomorrow. The one major downside of this product is the 12 hr recoat. 


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

radio11 said:


> Using that for the first time in the next few days myself. I'll be spraying one job, but brush/rolling doors on another. How does it brush?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm painting the trim in a city hall with it now. It's not so hard to use on jams and such but doors can be tricky.when doing the panels try not to get too much on the face because it could setup on you and cause a problem. 

Also, just because it dries fast doesn't mean it won't run. It's not nearly as bad as ProClassic but keep an eye on it.id do two jams then go back to the first and look for runs until you get the hang of it. The product is very much like breakthrough but I think it's aeasier to brush and roll. I'm using it in black which I think adds a little difficulty as well.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

I'd give the multi surface a try Slinger, SW will comp you a gallon to try out. Like I said it's very much like a good gallon of breakthrough. The problem with Breakthrough is everytime I get it it's different. Some gallons are thick some super thin, there's no product consistency. Add to the fact that they have a billion different versions that you can only tell by the tiny numbers at the bottom of the can and it's a recipe for trouble. 

I've been using the multi surface for some time now both spraying and brushing, and every gallon is identical to the previous. :yes: 

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## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

They all suck , let's be honest . If it's not a blocking issue its a drying issue or a brushing issue or a inventory issue etc etc . The price we pay they should perform miracles right out of the can!!!!


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

If I had to try a new one it would probably be the Multi Surface. It's so often suggested, and seems to have desirable properties. 

On the issue of doors sticking to frames, do you use door bumpers? The way I install, the doors and drawer fronts never actually make contact with the frames. 


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## Phinnster (Feb 20, 2013)

Hey sling 
Maybe your best with just staying with sat imoervo oil ?
Or try the water based version 
I think murals satin is to dull. As I have said All these hybrids need to be boxed ( satin / semi)


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

Been using PC hybrid for years and really like it but had some ultra deep colors to spray and it does come in ultra deep. So i moved to pro industrial high performance acrylic and it tuns out really nice easy to spray olnto brush dries in about an hour at 70.


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

Pro industrial high performance acrylic in eggshell. Color iron ore


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Phinnster said:


> Hey sling Maybe your best with just staying with sat imoervo oil ? Or try the water based version I think murals satin is to dull. As I have said All these hybrids need to be boxed ( satin / semi)


Last oil Satin Impervo I bought was around $70.00/gallon. 

Plus I I don't think I'm up to spraying that sticky sh!t anymore. Just the thought of it makes me cringe.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Ultraplate! Crap you probably can't get it where you are either. Sorry!


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

thinkpainting/nick said:


> They all suck , let's be honest . If it's not a blocking issue its a drying issue or a brushing issue or a inventory issue etc etc . The price we pay they should perform miracles right out of the can!!!!


I'm getting the multi surface for $33/gal, it's a bargain if you ask me.

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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

I suppose a 6 hour recoat time is an eternity these days, but otherwise Cabinet Coat is worth a look:

http://www.insl-x.com/product-detail/inslx-products/cabinet-coat-enamel


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Rbriggs82 said:


> I'm getting the multi surface for $33/gal, it's a bargain if you ask me.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


About what I pay as well. 

A buddy painter of mine does a ton of spray work and he's had some issues with the gloss version (only comes in egg-shell and gloss but the ES is more like a satin). Sorry, can't recall specifics. Will try to find out and report back.

Also, the base is a bit on the gray side which might prevent brighter whites from being obtained.


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## radio11 (Aug 14, 2015)

Rbriggs82 said:


> I'm getting the multi surface for $33/gal, it's a bargain if you ask me.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk



Holy Cow! I finally found a product that I get at a good price. I'm small beans, but only paying $29 plus tax for MSA (at least for now). 


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

slinger58 said:


> Last oil Satin Impervo I bought was around $70.00/gallon.
> 
> Plus I I don't think I'm up to spraying that sticky sh!t anymore. Just the thought of it makes me cringe.


I have been spraying oil for 3 days. I want to hang myself.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

I paint paint said:


> I suppose a 6 hour recoat time is an eternity these days, but otherwise Cabinet Coat is worth a look:
> 
> I checked into Cabinet Coat, but it only comes in a white base and I needed BM's HC-169 Coventry Gray.
> 
> http://www.insl-x.com/product-detail/inslx-products/cabinet-coat-enamel





epretot said:


> I have been spraying oil for 3 days. I want to hang myself.


Lol. Yep, it's enough to make ya suicidal. The Tyveck suits, vaseline around the eyes, sticky shoes, the blowback from inside cab boxes. 

Oil even makes a different sound coming out of the gun, it's like an evil hiss.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

RH said:


> About what I pay as well.
> 
> A buddy painter of mine does a ton of spray work and he's had some issues with the gloss version (only comes in egg-shell and gloss but the ES is more like a satin). Sorry, can't recall specifics. Will try to find out and report back.
> 
> Also, the base is a bit on the gray side which might prevent brighter whites from being obtained.


Interesting, so far I've only used the eggshell but I'll keep that in mind if I ever need the gloss. 

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## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

Rbriggs82 said:


> I'm getting the multi surface for $33/gal, it's a bargain if you ask me.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


I mentioned that produdt to my SW rep they don't even have it at my local store. He was pumping up some new Pro Insdustrial Hybrid they have supposed to compete with BM Advance...


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

thinkpainting/nick said:


> I mentioned that produdt to my SW rep they don't even have it at my local store. He was pumping up some new Pro Insdustrial Hybrid they have supposed to compete with BM Advance...


They didn't have it at my store either... I asked for it and now they do. 

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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Well, I ended up going with SW's PC Acrylic S/G. Sprayed the cab doors with a 210 FF and it performed really well, very satisfied with the finish. 

I've read here that brushing can be a challenge keeping a wet edge, but my experience with brushing has been satisfactory so far. Not nearly the challenge I had with Breakthrough. 

Question for those who have been using the PC regularly, are you using any extender when brushing? I added some XIM extender today and it brushed easier (of course), but then the concern becomes sufficient WFT.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

slinger58 said:


> Well, I ended up going with SW's PC Acrylic S/G. Sprayed the cab doors with a 210 FF and it performed really well, very satisfied with the finish.
> 
> I've read here that brushing can be a challenge keeping a wet edge, but my experience with brushing has been satisfactory so far. Not nearly the challenge I had with Breakthrough.
> 
> Question for those who have been using the PC regularly, are you using any extender when brushing? I added some XIM extender today and it brushed easier (of course), but then the concern becomes sufficient WFT.


I add just a drop in my cut bucket, otherwise it's a real drag. 



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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

I have a gallon of the new Pro Industrial water based alkyd urethane enamel waiting for me to pick and try. :yes: I have high hopes for that one. 

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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Rbriggs82 said:


> I have a gallon of the new Pro Industrial water based alkyd urethane enamel waiting for me to pick and try. :yes: I have high hopes for that one.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H810 using Tapatalk


Damn. That's a mouthful just to say. Let us know how it works. :thumbup:


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

slinger58 said:


> Damn. That's a mouthful just to say. Let us know how it works. :thumbup:


Yeah tell me about it. I've got some virgin cabinet doors to try it out on. I'm thinking I'll use it untinted to get a better idea of how it hides. 

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## Phinnster (Feb 20, 2013)

Any one use cashmere for trim 
Had some one tell me they love it ?


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

Cashmere is a nice wall paint. I bet it brushes really nicely over trim, but I like my trim paint to be harder than most wall paints usually are. I rarely use a wall paint on trim.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Phinnster said:


> Any one use cashmere for trim
> Had some one tell me they love it ?


I use the medium luster on track homes. They were originally painted in junky Painters Edge so the Cashmere is a big upgrade plus it's really nice to work with and covers great. 

Higher end more custom homes with nicer trim get proclassic. 

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## Phinnster (Feb 20, 2013)

I agree k d
He says it brushes unreal that's why he uses it ?
What's your go to ?


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

slinger58 said:


> Well, I ended up going with SW's PC Acrylic S/G. Sprayed the cab doors with a 210 FF and it performed really well, very satisfied with the finish.
> 
> I've read here that brushing can be a challenge keeping a wet edge, but my experience with brushing has been satisfactory so far. Not nearly the challenge I had with Breakthrough.
> 
> Question for those who have been using the PC regularly, are you using any extender when brushing? I added some XIM extender today and it brushed easier (of course), but then the concern becomes sufficient WFT.


I seldom do...only if the room temp or whatever is too warm causing the paint to tack too quickly...this time of year though I go straight outta the can. No prob. Thin coats, check at 5 and 10 mins to pick up any corners that may need it...I really don't understand why some folks have such a hard time with it....maybe it's just because I've used it for so long that I don't have much to compare it to? I dunno...

What I do know is that flotrol will knock the sheen down so plan accordingly. ..


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

lilpaintchic said:


> I seldom do...only if the room temp or whatever is too warm causing the paint to tack too quickly...this time of year though I go straight outta the can. No prob.* Thin coats, check at 5 and 10 mins to pick up any corners that may need it.*..I really don't understand why some folks have such a hard time with it....maybe it's just because I've used it for so long that I don't have much to compare it to? I dunno...
> 
> What I do know is that flotrol will knock the sheen down so plan accordingly. ..


Yes, yes, yes.


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## HollisPainting (Oct 15, 2013)

Rbriggs82 said:


> I have a gallon of the new Pro Industrial water based alkyd urethane enamel waiting for me to pick and try. :yes: I have high hopes for that one.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H810 using Tapatalk


Spraying tomorrow in low gloss
Let's compare notes back here after


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

HollisPainting said:


> Spraying tomorrow in low gloss
> Let's compare notes back here after


Sounds like a plan.

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## OilBased (Feb 10, 2016)

PNW Painter said:


> Have you looked into the SW Pro Industrial Pre-Catalyzed Water Based Epoxy?
> 
> Another potential option is SW's new Pro Industrial Water Based Alkyd Urethane. I just sprayed the first coat on a trim pack today so we'll see how it looks tomorrow. The one major downside of this product is the 12 hr recoat.
> 
> ...




How did the sheen turn out? Did you use the low sheen or semi?

Thanks!


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