# Best CIC (Centurion) product for Cabinets?



## PPD (Mar 19, 2018)

Looking to buy some CIC WB coatings to test out as possible use for custom closet cabinets I’ll be finishing in white. 

Needs to stand up to shoes, basket dragging, etc so mar resistance is most important (less concern of UV discoloration or cleaning chem resistance). Am confused about all the different options.....

Anyone have advice or thoughts on their most durable coating in either a pigmented lacquer or top coat? 

I have target 6500 pigmented lacquer already tinted for this project & was originally looking at CIC for the top coat but would be willing to switch if there’s a CIC option that avoids extra step?

Have access to Renner as an option as well if anyone recommends one of their products but CIC retailer is closer and more easily accessible.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

PPD said:


> Looking to buy some CIC WB coatings to test out as possible use for custom closet cabinets I’ll be finishing in white.
> 
> Needs to stand up to shoes, basket dragging, etc so mar resistance is most important (less concern of UV discoloration or cleaning chem resistance). Am confused about all the different options.....
> 
> ...


Will you be spraying or brush/rolling? Your in Cali, what about Ultraplate?


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## PPD (Mar 19, 2018)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Will you be spraying or brush/rolling? Your in Cali, what about Ultraplate?




Spraying for 99%. A door is getting specialty finish on interior panel with trim & frame done in same white as cabinets so I’ll be doin some brush work on the door. 

Never heard of Ultraplate...do tell!


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

PPD said:


> Spraying for 99%. A door is getting specialty finish on interior panel with trim & frame done in same white as cabinets so I’ll be doin some brush work on the door.
> 
> Never heard of Ultraplate...do tell!


California Ultraplate. Pacman used to rave about it as the next best thing to sliced bread. (As well as others) Single component Waterbased Urethane with super quick recoat times and block resistance.
I'm sure others can tell you more. Never used it..


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## PPD (Mar 19, 2018)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Will you be spraying or brush/rolling? Your in Cali, what about Ultraplate?




Ok looked up the California paints ultraplate- looks to be a urethane acrylic with 32% solids ratio which is pretty impressive! 

Was thinkin a 2k would be best since they seem to provide the most fail proof durability but curious hows ur experience with ultraplate differs from Dunn Edwards Everest (40% solids) or BM? Love learnin about new products!


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## PPD (Mar 19, 2018)

finishesbykevyn said:


> California Ultraplate. Pacman used to rave about it as the next best thing to sliced bread. (As well as others) Single component Waterbased Urethane with super quick recoat times and block resistance.
> 
> I'm sure others can tell you more. Never used it..




Ahh that makes my last question pointless haha...hopefully someone that’s used it will see & chime in! @PACman has been MIA a lot lately...hope everythings ok


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

I'm not too familiar with any of the Target, Renner or CIC products. I have heard great things though. I've been using alot of BM lately. The Advance is fantastic. I use it on my cabinets. Waterborne Oil paint. I'm also experimenting with the ScuffX. Latex, quick block time, scuff resistant. Both spray and brush well.
The industrial products are probably way tougher but just a different learning curve..


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## Mr Smith (Mar 11, 2016)

Eric likes the Renner 855 and the CIC one component poly "Victoria secret" line.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

.


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## Mr Smith (Mar 11, 2016)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> as far as mar and scuff resistance scuffx is hard product to beat and in a single component isocyanate free package.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Scuff-X doesn't have the chemical resistance of the CIC and Renner poly's. They are cabinet grade coatings that look like lacquer.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Mr Smith said:


> Scuff-X doesn't have the chemical resistance of the CIC and Renner poly's. They are cabinet grade coatings that look like lacquer.



yeah but were talking about closets also @*PPD* says:


_"Needs to stand up to shoes, basket dragging, etc so mar resistance is most important"_

Also you shouldn't go around using isocyanate catalyst or even aziridine in occupied homes either.


scuffx would be a decent paint grade option imo.


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## Mr Smith (Mar 11, 2016)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> yeah but were talking about closets also @*PPD* says:
> 
> 
> _"Needs to stand up to shoes, basket dragging, etc so mar resistance is most important"_
> ...


They are durable and chemical resistant without the catalyst 2K component.

I don't use 2K's for that reason.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Mr Smith said:


> They are durable and chemical resistant without the catalyst 2K component.
> 
> I don't use 2K's for that reason.



for some reason I must have skipped to the part of the video you posted where he only talks about the 2k finishes.


lenmar WB megavar is also pretty dang good if you ever get to try it, interior and exterior even though its not listed as such. isocyanate free but like most of the other WB 'lacquers' best applied sprayed because of the fast dry time.


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## PPD (Mar 19, 2018)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> as far as mar and scuff resistance scuffx is hard product to beat and in a single component isocyanate free package.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Ohhh exciting- know what the BM will be called? Sounds like its their version of the Ultraplate- will be excited to see the TDS! 

I recall us having a convo awhile back (with alchemy) bout adding cross linker to some options like bona & stays clear but that totally slipped my mind as a top coat option. 

Is there a negative effect to using the CIC 2k isocyanate catalyzed finish? 

Its not occupied & will have plenty of cure time since I get to shoot base before the cabinets are put together & final before install. Will have to do trim and touchups in the small space after install though. I always assumed the WB versions were safe enough to use regardless...spose I should look into it a bit more :-/.

Got some EMTECH CL100 crosslinker with my 6500 but its an organsilane, wonder if it performs the same as the aziridine options? Don’t know enough about the makeup to know if there’s a major difference....


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

PPD said:


> Ohhh exciting- know what the BM will be called? Sounds like its their version of the Ultraplate- will be excited to see the TDS!
> 
> I recall us having a convo awhile back (with alchemy) bout adding cross linker to some options like bona & stays clear but that totally slipped my mind as a top coat option.
> 
> ...


That Emtech 6500 looks pretty impressive actually. I'd be willing to try that sometime. Not sure if I can get it here in Canada..? Low VOC and single component. Plus it's brushable for touch-ups..


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Mr Smith said:


> Eric likes the Renner 855 and the CIC one component poly "Victoria secret" line.
> 
> CIC Chemist Miles Wooley Talks CIC Waterbase Coatings & Crosslinker vs Hardner - YouTube


My only issue with this Eric Reason guy is that he's doing chemical tests on these products with laquer thinner and acetone. Why not use something more realistic, like wine, mustard or vinegar. What normal person is going to accidently spill laquer thinner on thier cabinets? That stuff will eat through anything..


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

PPD said:


> Ohhh exciting- know what the BM will be called? Sounds like its their version of the Ultraplate- will be excited to see the TDS!
> 
> I recall us having a convo awhile back (with alchemy) bout adding cross linker to some options like bona & stays clear but that totally slipped my mind as a top coat option.
> 
> ...



The last paper I saw on the subject 2k isocyanate catalyzed urethanes produce the best all around finish at room temperature cure but isocyanate is highly toxic. aziridine can cause skin and respiratory irritation in some people too.


The BM product will be under the corotech label but available to all BM dealers and will tint on gennex.


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## Mr Smith (Mar 11, 2016)

finishesbykevyn said:


> My only issue with this Eric Reason guy is that he's doing chemical tests on these products with laquer thinner and acetone. Why not use something more realistic, like wine, mustard or vinegar. What normal person is going to accidently spill laquer thinner on thier cabinets? That stuff will eat through anything..


He uses it on all coatings, so it's fair across the board for testing. Its a quick test. The others like wine, coffee and mustard take a lot longer. You'd be surprised at what people use to clean cupboards including bleach,ammonia, Windex, and other home concoctions. 

His point is, if it can stand the test of lacquer thinner or acetone it can withstand the less aggressive cleaning agents. Not sure how you would test hand oils which can take years to break down paint. I have seen him leave spilled coffee with the coffee mug on a door for a week or so along with mustard.

BTW, I just got a couple of comp gallons of ICA Poly and Sivaam poly to test out. Both are 20 degrees and white. The ICA is considered one of the best Italian WB coatings but is double the cost of the Sivaam which is also an WB Italian Poly.


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## PPD (Mar 19, 2018)

finishesbykevyn said:


> My only issue with this Eric Reason guy is that he's doing chemical tests on these products with laquer thinner and acetone. Why not use something more realistic, like wine, mustard or vinegar. What normal person is going to accidently spill laquer thinner on thier cabinets? That stuff will eat through anything..




When I first started watching I kinda had the same thought but over time I realized I appreciate the more aggressive chemical tests...

If it does a good (or even decent) job standing up against lacquer thinner what are the chances you’ll ever get a failure call from a HO because they didn’t know their homemade cleaning products would damage the finish . 

At this point he’s done SO many product tests that I can’t imagine changing the method would be beneficial since he’d have to go back and do years worth of videos to be consistent, ya know?


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## PPD (Mar 19, 2018)

Mr Smith said:


> He uses it on all coatings, so it's fair across the board for testing. Its a quick test. The others like wine, coffee and mustard take a lot longer. You'd be surprised at what people use to clean cupboards including bleach,ammonia, Windex, and other home concoctions.
> 
> His point is, if it can stand the test of lacquer thinner or acetone it can withstand the less aggressive cleaning agents. Not sure how you would test hand oils which can take years to break down paint. I have seen him leave spilled coffee with the coffee mug on a door for a week or so along with mustard.
> 
> BTW, I just got a couple of comp gallons of ICA Poly and Sivaam poly to test out. Both are 20 degrees and white. The ICA is considered one of the best Italian WB coatings but is double the cost of the Sivaam which is also an WB Italian Poly.




Who distributes for ICA & Sivaam in the US? Haven’t heard of either yet but I love gettin me some new products to test...

made myself a promise that this year I’d stop being so da** bitter bout the VOC restrictions n test my lil heart out till I find products to replace the ones I’ve lost.


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## PPD (Mar 19, 2018)

finishesbykevyn said:


> That Emtech 6500 looks pretty impressive actually. I'd be willing to try that sometime. Not sure if I can get it here in Canada..? Low VOC and single component. Plus it's brushable for touch-ups..




I believe I read someone got it delivered in CA, can’t remember when or where though. 

You could always hit up Jeff & ask! He’s more than willing to talk chemical makeup, product advice, and distribution options.


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## Mr Smith (Mar 11, 2016)

PPD said:


> Who distributes for ICA & Sivaam in the US? Haven’t heard of either yet but I love gettin me some new products to test...
> 
> made myself a promise that this year I’d stop being so da** bitter bout the VOC restrictions n test my lil heart out till I find products to replace the ones I’ve lost.


Sorry I live in Canada. ICA should be available in most US cities.

I hear this coating sprays best with a Titan ED655 diaphragm pump. You get a more even cycle than that of a piston pump. And they are only about $800. It has a hopper on top and zero waste of paint. Some of these 1K or 2K poly coatings don't play well with HVLP, air, or AAA rigs. You can get micro bubbles with air injected.


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## Vinyl 54X (Mar 12, 2019)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> yeah but were talking about closets also @*PPD* says:
> 
> 
> _"Needs to stand up to shoes, basket dragging, etc so mar resistance is most important"_
> ...


scuffx is some neat stuff. We have used the semi gloss because they couldn't get satin in southern ca. Are all sheens available?


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Vinyl 54X said:


> scuffx is some neat stuff. We have used the semi gloss because they couldn't get satin in southern ca. Are all sheens available?



Matte, Eggshell, Satin, Semigloss


All bases are currently available in all sheen except semigloss 3x and 4x bases will be added in a month or so.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Mr Smith said:


> He uses it on all coatings, so it's fair across the board for testing. Its a quick test. The others like wine, coffee and mustard take a lot longer. You'd be surprised at what people use to clean cupboards including bleach,ammonia, Windex, and other home concoctions.
> 
> His point is, if it can stand the test of lacquer thinner or acetone it can withstand the less aggressive cleaning agents. Not sure how you would test hand oils which can take years to break down paint. I have seen him leave spilled coffee with the coffee mug on a door for a week or so along with mustard.
> 
> ...


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

PPD said:


> I believe I read someone got it delivered in CA, can’t remember when or where though.
> 
> You could always hit up Jeff & ask! He’s more than willing to talk chemical makeup, product advice, and distribution options.


Which one is Jeff? lol


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## PPD (Mar 19, 2018)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Which one is Jeff? lol




Jeff is the chemist at Target coatings & the main guy you talk to if calling or emailing...his product knowledge is impressive!


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## PPD (Mar 19, 2018)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Good point.
> 
> As I've been Using Advance for my cabinet repaints, I tell my customers to only use water and a clean cloth.
> 
> ...



Just a tid bit for ya (cuz I need the same thing as I often brush/roll since I work on smaller areas)...

The em6500 pigmented lacquer is brush-able- they also have a retarder additive available to increase the leveling time for brush work. Didn’t get any but did pick up the cross-linker with my order. 

Was SUPER impressed by the leveling straight from can when doing my scrap test boards! Did get some drag when trying to tip off so its definitely got a learning curve. 

Didn’t add cross-linker since I was doin small test scrap for adhesion n mar resistance before changing the chemicals. Dried to touch within 15 min & was rock hard after 6 hours. Did second coat n tested the next day....was PERFECTLY smooth after cure without a single brush stroke n adhesion was brilliant but mar resistance left something to be desired. 

Need to play around a bit more still.... Will prolly add some flotrol on 1 & thin e/ a bit of water on another to see how it goes. Also need to try one with the cross linker n see if that changes the mar resistance significantly..although doubtful it will do enough to make me comfortable using it w/out top coat on horizontal shelving. 

Actually, its raining so I may just head down to the shop n give it some more time today!


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## DeeJay Dennis (Mar 6, 2021)

PPD said:


> Looking to buy some CIC WB coatings to test out as possible use for custom closet cabinets I’ll be finishing in white.
> 
> Needs to stand up to shoes, basket dragging, etc so mar resistance is most important (less concern of UV discoloration or cleaning chem resistance). Am confused about all the different options.....
> 
> ...


 I’ve used not CIC and Renner both are awesome. I’ve actually had really good luck with Renner 643 primer catalyzed and then CIC vinyl sealer either the 1106 or 1107 then top coat of choice.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Just did my first order with CIC coatings, some "natural look' 2K polyurethane. Looking forward to carrying some of their products


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