# Air Assisted Airless - Durr EcoGun 2100



## PaintHQ (9 mo ago)

Hello all, I’m a professional painter (contractor) in the UK.. I’ve just dipped my toe in spraying AAA in occupied domestic property’s.. I already spray straight airless with a 395, or GX21, plus the Ultra Handheld.. then I also spray HVLP (Air Spray) with an Anest Iwata HTE gun / pressure cup and Gentilin compressor.. ultimately my reason for a HVLP / compressor setup was to use the compressor to go AAA ..I know the 395 Finish Pro is available with onboard compressor is available, but I hear theories about sufficient delivery of air (CFM).. anyone use the 395 Finish Pro? ..my AAA setup is using the Durr EcoGun 2100, and Durr flat tips / nozzles.. an awesome gun, with plenty of control over the air cap to squash the fan and improve the transfer efficiency.. I’ve got lots to learn.. hoping to learn from you good people and share what knowledge I have from spraying in the UK.. all the very best.. Pete ..here’s my YouTube video, hope you enjoy..


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

Great video. There's another member on here who does a similar setup with an airless and compressor combo. I've been contemplating trying to put something together in that style myself. Looks like a pretty sweet gun there too, nice set up all around! Thanks for the informative video. Cheers, from another Pete.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Excellent video. My favorite part was the slow-mo "action shot".
Would love to see a few "how to" videos on using that pressure pot, and some of your other set-ups.


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## PaintHQ (9 mo ago)

fromthenorthwest said:


> Great video. There's another member on here who does a similar setup with an airless and compressor combo. I've been contemplating trying to put something together in that style myself. Looks like a pretty sweet gun there too, nice set up all around! Thanks for the informative video. Cheers, from another Pete.


Thank you my friend, very kind feedback.. yeah it’s a very versatile setup, the compressor can even be left on the van with a long airline connecting to the airless pump end with a relatively cheap regulator.. it would pair nicely with a Titan ED655, if you prefer a diaphragm pump or even a Graco GX19 (piston).. the addition of a bottle manifold filter to a GX19 can help iron out any pulsing, acts as a dampener..

The Durr Gun and AAA flat tips are excellent.. double atomising, I find them a lot like the TriTech Ultras.. Other popular AAA guns in the UK are the Wagner Aircoat and I’m hearing good things about the new Graco G40 successors.. regards Pete


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## PaintHQ (9 mo ago)

Holland said:


> Excellent video. My favorite part was the slow-mo "action shot".
> Would love to see a few "how to" videos on using that pressure pot, and some of your other set-ups.


Thank you very much buddy, I do enjoy putting the videos together.. here’s a Hall Stairs and Landing in the UK, contractors here tend to get a lot of HSL decoration jobs.. I take inspiration from the US.. dark stained lacquered handrail and white spindles / staircase.. a classic timeless look.. 

This video has HVLP footage (trim / spindles / staircase).. and airless sprayed walls.. I do rate the Titan HEA 515 tip (Wagner over here).. the pressure is so much lower, 1400 psi for the walls ..do you guys airless spray interior walls my friend?.. just curious of the setup 😊

HVLP Spraying a Staircase and Airless Spraying Interior Walls


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Fantastic video's! Which top coats are you using on your trim/handrails? Although, personally I would have just cut and rolled all the walls. I can't get over all the plastic and garbage created from choosing to spray walls not to mention all the extra overspray/dust. Sometimes when doing handrails/spindles I will remove the handrails as to have access to the spindles. Finish the handrails offsite and then re-install.. but not always feasible..Thanks for sharing.


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## thepm4 (May 18, 2020)

Nice videos! Informative and well edited. The the music scoring is so epic...love it.

Welcome to PT


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

PaintHQ said:


> Thank you very much buddy, I do enjoy putting the videos together.. here’s a Hall Stairs and Landing in the UK, contractors here tend to get a lot of HSL decoration jobs.. I take inspiration from the US.. dark stained lacquered handrail and white spindles / staircase.. a classic timeless look..
> 
> This video has HVLP footage (trim / spindles / staircase).. and airless sprayed walls.. I do rate the Titan HEA 515 tip (Wagner over here).. the pressure is so much lower, 1400 psi for the walls ..do you guys airless spray interior walls my friend?.. just curious of the setup 😊
> 
> HVLP Spraying a Staircase and Airless Spraying Interior Walls


I hope you stick around. It's great how well you are documenting and sharing your work and methods.

New construction is almost always sprayed in North America. Usually with an airless. Occupied homes are not sprayed as often- some guys always spray, some guys never spray occupied homes.

A lot of contractors on PT spray trim work with an Airless w/ a Fine Finish tip. Many use AAA for fine finish work. There are some advanced contributors that are seasoned veterans at spraying (I am not one of them, I am still looking to improve my methods).

HVLP is not as common, I think maybe because it is slower, for smaller paint quantities, and more finicky when it comes to spraying heavy-bodied paints. I think it is ideal for occupied homes. The amount of control you are demonstrating in your vids is impressive, and it looks like there is minimal overspray. Looks ideal for those spindles and HSL jobs!.

Do you ever spray waterborne trim paints through your pressure cup and HVLP? Thanks for sharing. You bring a lot to the table.


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## PaintHQ (9 mo ago)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Fantastic video's! Which top coats are you using on your trim/handrails? Although, personally I would have just cut and rolled all the walls. I can't get over all the plastic and garbage created from choosing to spray walls not to mention all the extra overspray/dust. Sometimes when doing handrails/spindles I will remove the handrails as to have access to the spindles. Finish the handrails offsite and then re-install.. but not always feasible..Thanks for sharing.


Really appreciate the feedback.. I spray a lot of low viscosity ‘manufacturer’ coatings by AkzoNobel.. All waterborne technology.. In the video I spray a clear lacquer on the rail.. everything else, a high build primer that’s also an mdf edge sealer, then an enamel topcoat.. all HVLP on this occasion (no thinning, the material flows like water).. goes through airless a dream too, FFLP .008 tips at pressure around 800 psi.. 

Some other trim products, that I wonder if they have a market in North America.. is Renner (I follow the wonderful work by Eric Reason, so I know it’s being used).. then Teknos (it’s a Nordic company, Finland).. also Tikkurila, another company from Finland ..These products have raised the paint contractor market in the UK, along with Benjamin Moore ..id like try Sherwin Williams, but it’s not quite got the same availability as BM over here 😊

I know what you’re saying about the masking up to spray walls.. I do look to recycle the brown papers and plastic.. it’s not as much as it looks, a roll of each and you soon whip round with a 3M Hand Masker.. a high stairwell is a situation where spraying walls, then ceiling is efficient Vs manual cutting in and positioning the ladder in multiple positions.. once masked it all gets sprayed off the ground (with gun extensions).. then all going well the masking pulls down in one piece from the ground too.. so much less laborious on the body..

I admire your craftsmanship my friend.. if feasible, removing the handrail and refinishing off site.. very nice 👏👏👏👌

Thanks for having me onboard, I’m looking forward to learning lots.. like I say I have huge admiration for what North America has achieved in spraying / refinishing / and even cross over into the paint contractor market 🙏 ..Regards Pete


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## PaintHQ (9 mo ago)

thepm4 said:


> Nice videos! Informative and well edited. The the music scoring is so epic...love it.
> 
> Welcome to PT


Really appreciate that and your warm welcome, thank you 😊


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## PaintHQ (9 mo ago)

Holland said:


> I hope you stick around. It's great how well you are documenting and sharing your work and methods.
> 
> New construction is almost always sprayed in North America. Usually with an airless. Occupied homes are not sprayed as often- some guys always spray, some guys never spray occupied homes.
> 
> ...


I’d love to stick around, thank you for having me.. It’s so interesting to hear about paint methods, technologies and materials being using in North America.. I’m a huge fan and it’s influenced me in the UK

Yeah I know what your saying about waterborne trim paints going through HVLP ..I call them ‘decorative’ coatings, products that have be developed for brush / roller (and maybe spray.. airless)... in the video I’m spraying a waterborne product by AkzoNobel, but it’s a ‘manufacturer’ coating, low viscosity (thin, free flowing).. and spray only... beautifully through HVLP and airless with ease .008 tips... Graco FFLP at around 800 psi.. I’ve tried TriTech Ultras, but pressure was much much higher.. it’s probably obvious to say, but the trick to spraying in occupied homes is the ability to spray at as low pressure as you can, whilst still maintaining a nice fan pattern 😆

..I see paint company’s producing materials these days with the contractor sprayer in mind.. we have companies such as Teknos that do cater for brush / roller but have spray only products in their catalogue..

Thanks again for the warm welcome.. hope I can help you too as much as I know I can learn from you guys 👍🙏


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## Boston Paint (Apr 16, 2021)

PaintHQ said:


> Hello all, I’m a professional painter (contractor) in the UK.. I’ve just dipped my toe in spraying AAA in occupied domestic property’s.. I already spray straight airless with a 395, or GX21, plus the Ultra Handheld.. then I also spray HVLP (Air Spray) with an Anest Iwata HTE gun / pressure cup and Gentilin compressor.. ultimately my reason for a HVLP / compressor setup was to use the compressor to go AAA ..I know the 395 Finish Pro is available with onboard compressor is available, but I hear theories about sufficient delivery of air (CFM).. anyone use the 395 Finish Pro? ..my AAA setup is using the Durr EcoGun 2100, and Durr flat tips / nozzles.. an awesome gun, with plenty of control over the air cap to squash the fan and improve the transfer efficiency.. I’ve got lots to learn.. hoping to learn from you good people and share what knowledge I have from spraying in the UK.. all the very best.. Pete ..here’s my YouTube video, hope you enjoy..


Hello Pete,

I am North American based, though originally from England. While I never woke up one morning and said, 'gee, I want to be a house painter', it did sort of, choose me. That was about 35 years ago. Over the years I have done quite a bit of spraying in all kinds of situations, starting out using airless, and adding turbine HVLP when it first arrived on the scene. 

The only time I stumbled across AAA in the earlier days, was an ad for a machine, then made by Wagner US (now Titan) called the aircoat system. I was already in possession of half that machine - a Wagner diaphragm pump, which I used for a few years. At the time I was intrigued about what the combo could do, but then drifted off into other areas of the painting trades for a while.

Eventually, the AAA thing came full circle. I have been doing a lot of tinkering over the past five years with AAA, after I bought a 395 Finish Pro, and was a bit underwhelmed with what it could do. Even my local Graco rep told me that with advances in Fine Finish tips, AAA might not really end up being much of an advantage. Having recently started using the Tri Tech fine finish tips, which I think are excellent.

One guy whose approach you might want to look at is in Darbyshire, and goes by the name Decor 1st.com Painter and Decorator. He is a big fan of the Wagner diaphragm pumps, which he pairs with a variety of guns, including the Durr. He was very complimentary about the latter.

The only significant difference to this individual's approach, is that he uses a Wagner heated hose in addition to all the other kit. Heating the paint causes the same effect as thinning, without reducing the material, so you can spray at even lower fluid pressures.

These hoses are not available in the US, although, for around $2K, one can buy an inline heater, which is said to do the same thing.

Returning for a moment to the 395 Finish Pro, I did come to some conclusions. Firstly, if you are using the G40 gun with the RAC-X reversible tip set-up, I think the air cap design doesn't really allow good airflow. If you compare the cap, to the one that comes with the flat tip conversion set, the openings for the air are of very different sizes.

Whether or not the compressor has enough air to keep up with either cap I do not know. 

Once I started wrestling with this, I did a cabinet job using my GX-19 (similar to your small unit) coupled with a larger compressor and the G40 gun with the reversible tip set-up. I was spraying an Italian single component finish which does spray like a wet dream. 

While I did get good results on the finish, I did seem to have to crank up the fluid pressure on the pump to get a 'full' pattern. My paint spray go-to vendor said he thought it was due to the small piston in the pump and pulsation in the line. For that experiment, I was using an 1/8 inch ID hose, which could also have been part of the problem.

Shortly after, I bought a Titan ED 655 pump and tried that with the aforementioned G40 set-up, and this worked somewhat better.

I think the real test would be to switch over to the flat tip set-up on the G40 and put that through its paces, using the small titan pump.

It is possible, that the Durr (and Wagner) guns are just better configured, or have better nozzle tip combos.

The fact that Graco is now offering the PeformAA gun as an upgrade, and with a fairly large choice of air caps for specific situations, does suggest that they felt the need for improvement.

Whether anything else about the gun (air passages for instance) is different, I cannot tell at a glance, although the new air caps can be used on the older guns, and I am tempted to give those a try.

Finally, a lot of the AAA purists in this country say that for the ultimate in low pressure spraying, you need to go with an air motor system, like Kremlin for instance, and argue that the tips on the gold gun give additional advantages.

In the end, there are too many variables (and too much money) to be spent tracking it all down, but thanks for your story.

I only wish the Durr gun were readily available in the US.


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## PaintHQ (9 mo ago)

Boston Paint said:


> Hello Pete,
> 
> I am North American based, though originally from England. While I never woke up one morning and said, 'gee, I want to be a house painter', it did sort of, choose me. That was about 35 years ago. Over the years I have done quite a bit of spraying in all kinds of situations, starting out using airless, and adding turbine HVLP when it first arrived on the scene.
> 
> ...


Wow, such an insightful, well worded, and all round excellent reply my friend.. really appreciate you taking the time.. I too (somehow) fell into being a self employed Painter & Decorator.. My background is IT Support, spending much of my time working for UPS in the UK before being made redundant.. I guess that’s how my analytical mind has naturally swayed me to embrace spraying, and enjoying bringing a technical element to painting.. Then more recently, the development of my PaintHQ YouTube channel.. hoping to be able to help others and answer questions, reminds me of my IT Support role ..

Totally agree with all your points.. you’re so right about the development of Fine Finish airless tips, especially the Low Pressure ones.. they really have closed the gap on AAA .. Coupled with how various materials behave, low viscosity paints / higher viscosity ‘decorative’ paints.. it’s not a ‘one size fits all’.. whether it be Graco / Wagner/Titan / and TriTech tips.. they all behave differently.. then Airless / Air Spray/HVLP / and AAA ..all valid systems, each with beneficial elements..

I’m hearing the same as you, regarding the G40 gun, not quite cutting it Vs Wagner AC guns and the Durr.. but so far I’m hearing positive things about Graco’s latest offering.. then with all guns, the flat tip seems the better choice.. I’ve got a ‘regular’ 395 (straight airless).. seems the better option with its SmartControl pressure regulating feature, but I just fancied giving the simple piston pump, in the GX21 a go.. kinda hoping to show others, it can be done ..diaphragm does seem to be popular amongst AAA enthusiasts.. I’m familiar with the work of Decor1st, it’s a guy called Tim Belfield ..I’m an admirer of his work, hugely knowledgeable.. he won’t know me though 😆 ..but he’s certainly been an inspiration to me 👏👏👏

..The Titan ED 655 looks to be a stunning diaphragm pump.. wish it was available in the UK, it doesn’t seem Wagner does their version here.. plenty of Wagner diaphragm pumps but nothing as small, compact and competitively priced..

Hopefully without spending more and more money, I will keep dipping my toe into AAA.. bringing that technology into domestic houses ..another inspiration to me, is the work of refinishers, I like Eric Reason’s YouTube channel, and his friendly / helpful approach..

Just thought.. was it Renner you was spraying.. you mentioned an Italian coating.. I know Eric showcases Renner.. this video interview is awesome, very insightful..





Apologies, I waffle on 🙈 ..absolute pleasure reading your reply my friend.. keep in touch.. regards Pete


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## Boston Paint (Apr 16, 2021)

PaintHQ said:


> Wow, such an insightful, well worded, and all round excellent reply my friend.. really appreciate you taking the time.. I too (somehow) fell into being a self employed Painter & Decorator.. My background is IT Support, spending much of my time working for UPS in the UK before being made redundant.. I guess that’s how my analytical mind has naturally swayed me to embrace spraying, and enjoying bringing a technical element to painting.. Then more recently, the development of my PaintHQ YouTube channel.. hoping to be able to help others and answer questions, reminds me of my IT Support role ..
> 
> Totally agree with all your points.. you’re so right about the development of Fine Finish airless tips, especially the Low Pressure ones.. they really have closed the gap on AAA .. Coupled with how various materials behave, low viscosity paints / higher viscosity ‘decorative’ paints.. it’s not a ‘one size fits all’.. whether it be Graco / Wagner/Titan / and TriTech tips.. they all behave differently.. then Airless / Air Spray/HVLP / and AAA ..all valid systems, each with beneficial elements..
> 
> ...


Hello Pete,

I was trained as a molecular biologist, thought never really practiced the 'art'. Pity really, because Boston turns out to be the world center for that kind of science.

Eric Reason is someone I give a look to on a frequent basis, but the coating I was using, and like to use, is called Sayerlac Hydroplus. The company itself is owned by Sherwin Williams, and they make their own 'domestic' copy, which isn't supposed to be as good. The product can be cross-linked, although I haven't gone down that road - still trying to wrap my head around the fact that some systems can be cross-linked, OR catalyzed.

As good as Eric can be, I wish there was one really clear document explaining all the waterborne chemistry and listing all the available manufacturers with details about strengths and weaknesses of their products for various issues. I find that some of the U Tube stuff has too much bias, however subtle.

Titan recently released a larger diaphragm pump called the Elite 3000 here in the US. It costs about 2 - 3 times the ED 655 and is, I believe, the Chinese made copy of the European Wagner unit. I am very curious to try and find out whether the bigger pump allows better low-pressure atomization, as Tim is able to do with his, or is the volume per minute on the smaller sprayer more than adequate? I am able to get one of these machines for a very good price locally, but like the Graco unit I own, it is really heavy and hard to get in and out of buildings, vehicles etc.

That was one of the reasons why I tried to smaller pumps with a free-standing compressor. 

Curious to know exactly what the filter unit you mentioned in your video is all about, with regard to smoothing out pulsation? Whatever it was, went off the screen before I could really get a good look.

In the end I am sure that the combo of pump, hose, gun, atomizing air, cap and tip all play various roles, and the combinations are almost endless. And that's before you start looking at thinning and or heating the paint.

Keep in touch!


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## PaintHQ (9 mo ago)

Boston Paint said:


> Hello Pete,
> 
> I was trained as a molecular biologist, thought never really practiced the 'art'. Pity really, because Boston turns out to be the world center for that kind of science.
> 
> ...


Ah yes Sayerlack in my opinion is on par with Renner, and unless I’m mistaken there seems a link between the two..

Renner Sayerlack S.A.
Renner Herrmann S.A.

..Renner Italia being a subsidiary.. the link also to Sherwin Williams makes sense now.. I can’t get SW decorative products here in the UK such as Emerald Urethane but I can get SW ‘manufacturer’ coatings as well as Renner from a company called Symphony Coatings.. Eric actually put me in touch with their rep..

Just looked at the Titan Elite 3000, very much like the Wagner SF pumps used by Tim (I think he owns a few 😊).. I’m with you on a small / lighter pumps if workable.. for me I also prefer smaller flexible airless hoses.. if I need more reach, I couple hoses together in whichever configuration I need.. otherwise it drives me mad, unraveling and untwisting lengths of hose..

The filter that I’ve added to the Graco GX pump is simply a bottle manifold filter, they don’t come as standard with the GX pumps to keep the resale cost down.. I have a very knowledgeable friend who is a part owner of a company in the UK that sell all things spraying (commercial application and domestic contractor).. he’s ex-Graco and pretty clued up.. he explained the use of a bottle filter ‘helps’ reduce pulsation by way of a dampening effect.. I guess a minimal effect, but I have to say I’ve not experienced any detriment to paint transfer due to pulsing.. I don’t have a diaphragm pump to compare, but in comparison to my 395, which runs pretty smooth.. The GX pump I can feel a pulsing in the line, but it’s not compromising the sprayed output.. I’ve sprayed as low as 800 psi and the laying down of material was the same as the 395..

Always a pleasure my friend.. wishing you all the best and plenty of future spraying success 🙏 regards.. Pete


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

PaintHQ said:


> I’d love to stick around, thank you for having me.. It’s so interesting to hear about paint methods, technologies and materials being using in North America.. I’m a huge fan and it’s influenced me in the UK
> 
> Yeah I know what your saying about waterborne trim paints going through HVLP ..*I call them ‘decorative’ coatings, products *that have be developed for brush / roller (and maybe spray.. airless)... in the video I’m spraying a waterborne product by AkzoNobel, but it’s a ‘manufacturer’ coating, low viscosity (thin, free flowing).. and spray only... beautifully through HVLP and airless with ease .008 tips... Graco FFLP at around 800 psi.. I’ve tried TriTech Ultras, but pressure was much much higher.. it’s probably obvious to say, but the trick to spraying in occupied homes is the ability to spray at as low pressure as you can, whilst still maintaining a nice fan pattern 😆
> 
> ...


I believe there are three main classifications in North America:

1. Industrial Coatings
2. Architectural Coatings
3. Hi-PAC Coatings (High Performance Architectural Coatings) - which are industrial coatings that are suitable for architectural applications, such as epoxies, polyurethanes, and high performance latex.


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## Boston Paint (Apr 16, 2021)

PaintHQ said:


> Ah yes Sayerlack in my opinion is on par with Renner, and unless I’m mistaken there seems a link between the two..
> 
> Renner Sayerlack S.A.
> Renner Herrmann S.A.
> ...



Thanks for your further input, Pete.

Do you have a part number for the bottle manifold filter? The ones I have found online here seem to also have the dump/prime valve built into the unit. I couldn't tell if yours does too or not. I think it would be worth a try, and certainly easier to change or clean, than the pump filter that comes with the sprayer, which is very hard to get to.

I don't know if you are missing much with the SW Emerald to be honest. For things like cabinet recoating the Italian products are just so much better and harder wearing. If you were doing interior woodwork, perhaps the Emerald would be OK, but in my opinion, there are better options.

How are things with UK manufacturers like Dulux for the residential interior coatings?

Best for now, Chris.


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

PaintHQ said:


> Hello all, I’m a professional painter (contractor) in the UK.. I’ve just dipped my toe in spraying AAA in occupied domestic property’s.. I already spray straight airless with a 395, or GX21, plus the Ultra Handheld.. then I also spray HVLP (Air Spray) with an Anest Iwata HTE gun / pressure cup and Gentilin compressor.. ultimately my reason for a HVLP / compressor setup was to use the compressor to go AAA ..I know the 395 Finish Pro is available with onboard compressor is available, but I hear theories about sufficient delivery of air (CFM).. anyone use the 395 Finish Pro? ..my AAA setup is using the Durr EcoGun 2100, and Durr flat tips / nozzles.. an awesome gun, with plenty of control over the air cap to squash the fan and improve the transfer efficiency.. I’ve got lots to learn.. hoping to learn from you good people and share what knowledge I have from spraying in the UK.. all the very best.. Pete ..here’s my YouTube video, hope you enjoy..


I’m finally dipping my toes as well with my first introduction to air-assisted-airless spraying this upcoming week for applying Renner and Ilva 2K finishes. I’m anxious to see how the AAA setups compare to the more conventional air driven guns, though it’s sometimes difficult to teach an old dog new tricks after using air driven guns for the past 40+ years.


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## PaintHQ (9 mo ago)

Boston Paint said:


> Thanks for your further input, Pete.
> 
> Do you have a part number for the bottle manifold filter? The ones I have found online here seem to also have the dump/prime valve built into the unit. I couldn't tell if yours does too or not. I think it would be worth a try, and certainly easier to change or clean, than the pump filter that comes with the sprayer, which is very hard to get to.
> 
> ...


Hi Chris,
I’ll give my guy a call today, see what I can find out.. I could be wrong but I don’t believe it’s a genuine Graco part (the filters are).. it doesn’t have any valve, it’s purely a filter housing similar to the Graco’s.. my only negative is the whole housing unscrews, not just the cap (like Graco’s), so a bit of water dumps itself.. nothing that a cloth sitting underneath can’t sort out.. you’re right, the unit alone is far better than accessing the ‘useless’ small onboard filter..

Just thought, I made these videos for SpraymanUK that show the filter setup, plus you get some cool slow motion footage of spraying.. the pressure at 800-900 psi ..you can’t detect any pulsing in the spray being output..

Thanks for the heads up on Emerald.. regarding Dulux, in the Professional P&D / Contractor world, Dulux has massively lost its credibility and reputation of pre-2010 ..That’s when European rulings changed on VOC levels.. IMO and that of others Dulux never recovered, they seem to concentrate on serving the DIYer, where they’re still a big name.. it took a number of years for some excellent waterborne technology to filter into the UK from Finland, Italy and the US (Benjamin Moore is making strides in the UK)..

Did VOC rulings impact the North American market at all ?

Always a pleasure, I’ll get back to you on the manifold filter.. it possibly could be a Chinese import, so could be quite a cost effective solution 😊 ..regards Pete

Here’s a couple of my Videos...

Graco GX21 Filter. Installing The Sprayman UK Manifold Filter





Follows on with this, adding the Graco Finishing Kit (Hopper).. some cool spray footage too 😊

GX21FF Conversion. Installing a Graco Airless Finishing Kit (Hopper Kit)


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## Boston Paint (Apr 16, 2021)

PaintHQ said:


> Hi Chris,
> I’ll give my guy a call today, see what I can find out.. I could be wrong but I don’t believe it’s a genuine Graco part (the filters are).. it doesn’t have any valve, it’s purely a filter housing similar to the Graco’s.. my only negative is the whole housing unscrews, not just the cap (like Graco’s), so a bit of water dumps itself.. nothing that a cloth sitting underneath can’t sort out.. you’re right, the unit alone is far better than accessing the ‘useless’ small onboard filter..
> 
> Just thought, I made these videos for SpraymanUK that show the filter setup, plus you get some cool slow motion footage of spraying.. the pressure at 800-900 psi ..you can’t detect any pulsing in the spray being output..
> ...


Thank you for all of this, Pete.

You are a very thorough detail guy - I can tell! 

It makes total sense to me that adding that larger volume reservoir immediately outside the pump output area would cause dampening. Apparently, airless hoses come in several different construction types, some more readily able to flex and absorb pulsation than others. Last time I purchased a 25 ft 3/16 (my standard go to on the smaller machines) my supplier asked me what I would be hooking it up to. He sold me one that would be appropriate for the GX first and foremost, saying that it would then be good for the ED 655.

There have been massive VOC changes in the U.S. over the past two decades that really changed the paint.

When I started, about 35 years ago, Ben Moore was a standard. We used a lot of their oil enamel in satin and high gloss and it was a dream. Once the VOC laws changed, the paint never behaved the same, no matter how much solvent, oil etc. one put in.

We still do a lot of interior oil on trim, some Ben Moore, but we also use some Dutch product. The Dutch make very good paint, and I am amazed that they haven't shown up in the 2K poly world yet. I was not aware that the Finns were in the game also.

Part of my fascination with the Italian products is the idea that they could be used for interior trim paint, with a combination of spray and brush application. I've been researching various glycol retarders which would allow them to be brush applied to interior trim and paneling.

The Ben Moore products available here (still regarded as both pro and DIY) in water base, all tend to be soft, and streaky to brush apply. I don't know what the company makes available to you in the UK, but we have Advance, Aura and Cabinet Coat, amongst others. The Advance is a water-soluble alkyd (hybrid) and probably brushes the best, but will still yellow in low light due to the oil content.

The other two are good when spray applied but are hard to brush on even small areas without getting a lot of stringy brush finish and irregular sheen. We prefer to finish with a brush coat, because sprayed finishes are very hard to touch up or do spot repairs, in an easy way that blends with adjacent work.

The Sayerlack products I have used are just on a different planet. They cure so much harder and reach this hardness very quickly. Within maybe four hours of application, the surface won't even take a fingernail imprint. I have been able, on occasion, to paint both side of cabinet doors, two coats, in one day. And they are ready to install the next without any fear of marking.

Nothing that Ben Moore offers, has these attributes.

Over and out for now, Chris.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Boston Paint said:


> *There have been massive VOC changes in the U.S. over the past two decades that really changed the paint.*
> 
> When I started, about 35 years ago, Ben Moore was a standard. We used a lot of their oil enamel in satin and high gloss and it was a dream. Once the VOC laws changed, the paint never behaved the same, no matter how much solvent, oil etc. one put in.
> 
> ...


Air dry paint (aka Architectural) manufacturers moving towards ‘low VOC’ means a move into high-solids chemistry. This has been known to create rheological problems.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

You can get manifold filters here: Bedford 14-1566 Replacement 214570 or 214-570 Fluid Outlet Manifold Filter Assembly

I often add them to AAA setups like graco merker, CAT etc.

I don't see a reason to add it to GX21 and other small pumps just filter your material before hand and use a fine mesh in the gun.


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## Boston Paint (Apr 16, 2021)

PaintHQ said:


> Hi Chris,
> I’ll give my guy a call today, see what I can find out.. I could be wrong but I don’t believe it’s a genuine Graco part (the filters are).. it doesn’t have any valve, it’s purely a filter housing similar to the Graco’s.. my only negative is the whole housing unscrews, not just the cap (like Graco’s), so a bit of water dumps itself.. nothing that a cloth sitting underneath can’t sort out.. you’re right, the unit alone is far better than accessing the ‘useless’ small onboard filter..
> 
> Just thought, I made these videos for SpraymanUK that show the filter setup, plus you get some cool slow motion footage of spraying.. the pressure at 800-900 psi ..you can’t detect any pulsing in the spray being output..
> ...


Great videos Pete. Thank you for sharing - you were able to get that rig to spray the acrylic finish at 800 psi with straight airless? Is the material sold at a sprayable viscosity, or did you thin it to get it to go at such a low pressure?


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## Boston Paint (Apr 16, 2021)

Holland said:


> Air dry paint (aka Architectural) manufacturers moving towards ‘low VOC’ means a move into high-solids chemistry. This has been known to create rheological problems.


And don't those issues show up in the quality of the finished surface! Currently trying to figure out the best waterborne extenders - I followed the thread that recommended Emtech SA5 and will be giving that a try.


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## PaintHQ (9 mo ago)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> You can get manifold filters here: Bedford 14-1566 Replacement 214570 or 214-570 Fluid Outlet Manifold Filter Assembly
> 
> I often add them to AAA setups like graco merker, CAT etc.
> 
> I don't see a reason to add it to GX21 and other small pumps just filter your material before hand and use a fine mesh in the gun.


Thanks for sharing.. Yeah that’s the type of manifold filter addition that’s being added to Graco GX21, GX19 (GXFF in the UK), and Wagner (Titan) diaphragm pumps.. especially if being used with AAA flat tips.. there’s an added theory that the ‘bottle’ design has a dampening effect to help iron out pulsation... plus the small onboard filters installed in Graco GX pumps are useless, I guess Graco use them as a last line of defence to protect the pump.. and keep the resale cost appealing..

About same price as we’re paying in the UK, looks nice that your ones are US made 🇺🇸👏👏👏🙏

if anyone is looking at adding one of these filters.. just double check pump configuration.. ie the GX21 Vs the GX19.. the orientation is different 👍

Kind regards.. Pete


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## PaintHQ (9 mo ago)

Boston Paint said:


> Great videos Pete. Thank you for sharing - you were able to get that rig to spray the acrylic finish at 800 psi with straight airless? Is the material sold at a sprayable viscosity, or did you thin it to get it to go at such a low pressure?


Thank you my friend 🙏 ..yeah the AkzoNobel Aqualit products are low viscosity / spray only products that go through airless FFLP .008 tips at very low pressure.. so much control.. same through HVLP, sprays a dream with no thinning..

Just remembered these AkzoNobel videos were what put the products on my radar ..I’d use without hesitation on internal joinery trim / internal doors etc ..quite a cost effective solution here in the UK for a cabinet like finish ..for kitchen cabinetry, I’d probably sway towards Renner / Sayerlack ..although I’ve not done a side by side test (with the crosslinkers etc).. I think the results would be interesting.. regards Pete

here’s the AkzoNobel produced videos, interview style discussions


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## PaintHQ (9 mo ago)

Redux said:


> I’m finally dipping my toes as well with my first introduction to air-assisted-airless spraying this upcoming week for applying Renner and Ilva 2K finishes. I’m anxious to see how the AAA setups compare to the more conventional air driven guns, though it’s sometimes difficult to teach an old dog new tricks after using air driven guns for the past 40+ years.


..Would love to hear about your journey / experience with AAA ..keep in touch.. regards Pete


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## Boston Paint (Apr 16, 2021)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> You can get manifold filters here: Bedford 14-1566 Replacement 214570 or 214-570 Fluid Outlet Manifold Filter Assembly
> 
> I often add them to AAA setups like graco merker, CAT etc.
> 
> I don't see a reason to add it to GX21 and other small pumps just filter your material before hand and use a fine mesh in the gun.


Thank you, Coco - for the flat tip set-up, I would like one more layer of protection that is more accessible than the on-board filter in the pump. And if the pulsation was damped out in the process, that wouldn't hurt either.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Boston Paint said:


> Thank you, Coco - for the flat tip set-up, I would like one more layer of protection that is more accessible than the on-board filter in the pump. And if the pulsation was damped out in the process, that wouldn't hurt either.


Is there another way to reducing pulsing in an airless, other than adding a longer hose?


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## Boston Paint (Apr 16, 2021)

Holland said:


> Is there another way to reducing pulsing in an airless, other than adding a longer hose?
> 
> Our friend Pete, in the UK, says his 'source' on the vendor side had suggested that the larger filter manifold might help in this regard. To be honest, I don't really care too much about pulsation for my small unit as long as the spray pattern isn't peppered with light spots at lower pressure. This has been an issue with some of the opaque coatings I have been using. Thinning waterborne coatings like this, too far tends to lead to fish-eye problems and vertical sag hazard and doesn't make them level any better.
> 
> ...


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

PaintHQ said:


> Thank you my friend, very kind feedback.. yeah it’s a very versatile setup, the compressor can even be left on the van with a long airline connecting to the airless pump end with a relatively cheap regulator.. it would pair nicely with a Titan ED655, if you prefer a diaphragm pump or even a Graco GX19 (piston).. the addition of a bottle manifold filter to a GX19 can help iron out any pulsing, acts as a dampener..
> 
> The Durr Gun and AAA flat tips are excellent.. double atomising, I find them a lot like the TriTech Ultras.. Other popular AAA guns in the UK are the Wagner Aircoat and I’m hearing good things about the new Graco G40 successors.. regards Pete





PaintHQ said:


> Thank you my friend, very kind feedback.. yeah it’s a very versatile setup, the compressor can even be left on the van with a long airline connecting to the airless pump end with a relatively cheap regulator.. it would pair nicely with a Titan ED655, if you prefer a diaphragm pump or even a Graco GX19 (piston).. the addition of a bottle manifold filter to a GX19 can help iron out any pulsing, acts as a dampener..
> 
> The Durr Gun and AAA flat tips are excellent.. double atomising, I find them a lot like the TriTech Ultras.. Other popular AAA guns in the UK are the Wagner Aircoat and I’m hearing good things about the new Graco G40 successors.. regards Pete


Hey Pete- Had another question on your setup, what's the CFM on the compressor you've got there? Been really thinking about trying a similar setup. Cheers


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## PaintHQ (9 mo ago)

fromthenorthwest said:


> Hey Pete- Had another question on your setup, what's the CFM on the compressor you've got there? Been really thinking about trying a similar setup. Cheers


Apologies my friend for not replying sooner, my work commitments have kept me busy.. The Gentilin compressor in my video is 24 litre with a air delivery of 5 bar, 150 L / min (5.3 CFM).. speaking to my vendor when making the purchase, I opted for the quieter model which results in less CFM (5.3), but still sufficient to drive AAA air caps.. whereas there was a standard model (bit noisier) but would of had more CFM.. It does mean I’m limited on some of the standard air spray / HVLP guns, it won’t drive the really wide air caps.. There is almost a ‘science’ behind understanding compressor and CFM, have to admit I don’t fully understand.. would love to hear about your journey into AAA, keep in touch buddy.. apologies once again for late reply, I will always get back to to anyone on here 👍 .regards Pete


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

PaintHQ said:


> Apologies my friend for not replying sooner, my work commitments have kept me busy.. The Gentilin compressor in my video is 24 litre with a air delivery of 5 bar, 150 L / min (5.3 CFM).. speaking to my vendor when making the purchase, I opted for the quieter model which results in less CFM (5.3), but still sufficient to drive AAA air caps.. whereas there was a standard model (bit noisier) but would of had more CFM.. It does mean I’m limited on some of the standard air spray / HVLP guns, it won’t drive the really wide air caps.. There is almost a ‘science’ behind understanding compressor and CFM, have to admit I don’t fully understand.. would love to hear about your journey into AAA, keep in touch buddy.. apologies once again for late reply, I will always get back to to anyone on here 👍 .regards Pete


No worries Pete, I appreciate the information. Air compressor specs were pretty much Greek to me, but that gives me a little bit more info to dive in with for pricing out a similar setup. Appreciate it!


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

fromthenorthwest said:


> No worries Pete, I appreciate the information. Air compressor specs were pretty much Greek to me, but that gives me a little bit more info to dive in with for pricing out a similar setup. Appreciate it!


 Generally the bigger the tank the better, especially for HVLP. However those AAA setups don't need half as much air to get going. Pretty sure a pancake compressor would work, but something happy medium that is easy to transport is a consideration. I would like to get a AAA rig going also, especially for spraying boxes/furniture etc.


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Generally the bigger the tank the better, especially for HVLP. However those AAA setups don't need half as much air to get going. Pretty sure a pancake compressor would work, but something happy medium that is easy to transport is a consideration. I would like to get a AAA rig going also, especially for spraying boxes/furniture etc.


Yeah that makes sense, if I remember you run a large tank in your shop for the cup gun right?

I recall @MikeCalifornia has his set up with a pancake, so I was considering something like that. But I think he sprays mostly lacquers, so I think like you're saying I would probably err on a bit larger just to be safe. Maybe one of those little double barrel units. Been doing a lot of spraying in occupier homes lately and would love less overspray and more precision.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

fromthenorthwest said:


> Yeah that makes sense, if I remember you run a large tank in your shop for the cup gun right?
> 
> I recall @MikeCalifornia has his set up with a pancake, so I was considering something like that. But I think he sprays mostly lacquers, so I think like you're saying I would probably err on a bit larger just to be safe. Maybe one of those little double barrel units. Been doing a lot of spraying in occupier homes lately and would love less overspray and more precision.


Exactly. Although, I can't confirm how it will spray with products like ScuffX, Advance etc. May be better with a RAC tip, rather then a flat tip. I've heard guys saying that they clog. I would start spraying products like CIC and Renner if I could get my hands on it..


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Exactly. Although, I can't confirm how it will spray with products like ScuffX, Advance etc. May be better with a RAC tip, rather then a flat tip. I've heard guys saying that they clog. I would start spraying products like CIC and Renner if I could get my hands on it..


Yeah I have started moving in that direction, I ordered some primers from Renner and Envirolak. Hopefully have a chance to try them out this week on a job. I was thinking I'd start 1K and maybe move into 2K later.

I got the Renner from Timberlane sales online. 
You're on Newfoundland right? I wonder if one of the online outlets wouldn't ship to you? But I'm guessing you may have already tried that.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

fromthenorthwest said:


> Yeah I have started moving in that direction, I ordered some primers from Renner and Envirolak. Hopefully have a chance to try them out this week on a job. I was thinking I'd start 1K and maybe move into 2K later.
> 
> I got the Renner from Timberlane sales online.
> You're on Newfoundland right? I wonder if one of the online outlets wouldn't ship to you? But I'm guessing you may have already tried that.


Newfoundland yep. I tried getting some Envirolak shipped over and it was like pulling teeth. There is even a Richeleau dealer here who is a distributer for Envirolak and they just didn't seem interested as I am the only one requesting it. I can get ML Cambell, but have heard mixed answers on whether their primer/products can be used on repaints without stripping back to bare..So frustrating living on an island sometimes. 😅


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## thepm4 (May 18, 2020)

fromthenorthwest said:


> Yeah I have started moving in that direction, I ordered some primers from Renner and Envirolak. Hopefully have a chance to try them out this week on a job. I was thinking I'd start 1K and maybe move into 2K later.
> 
> I got the Renner from Timberlane sales online.
> You're on Newfoundland right? I wonder if one of the online outlets wouldn't ship to you? But I'm guessing you may have already tried that.


Envirolak's E9000 bonding primer and tannin blocker is amazing stuff. It BONDS!
It covers and lays out beautifully with a Scuff-X matte type sheen. Sands well too.


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## thepm4 (May 18, 2020)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Newfoundland yep. I tried getting some Envirolak shipped over and it was like pulling teeth. There is even a Richeleau dealer here who is a distributer for Envirolak and they just didn't seem interested as I am the only one requesting it. I can get ML Cambell, but have heard mixed answers on whether their primer/products can be used on repaints without stripping back to bare..So frustrating living on an island sometimes. 😅


Just wondering...Envirolak seems pretty flexible/helpful...they aren't open to taking an order from you and shipping directly? Or was that part of the pulling teeth you mentioned?


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

thepm4 said:


> Just wondering...Envirolak seems pretty flexible/helpful...they aren't open to taking an order from you and shipping directly? Or was that part of the pulling teeth you mentioned?


 Not sure where you are, but Omg. They stopped returning my calls and emails, so I gave up. Shipping directly to my house would be way too costly in shipping. It was a total run around..


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Newfoundland yep. I tried getting some Envirolak shipped over and it was like pulling teeth. There is even a Richeleau dealer here who is a distributer for Envirolak and they just didn't seem interested as I am the only one requesting it. I can get ML Cambell, but have heard mixed answers on whether their primer/products can be used on repaints without stripping back to bare..So frustrating living on an island sometimes. 😅


Yeah thats a bummer. Too bad they won't give you the time of day with that envirolak as I hear it's supp5osed to be pretty sweet, especially with regards to 1k. But hey I'm sure living on an island has its perks .


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

thepm4 said:


> Envirolak's E9000 bonding primer and tannin blocker is amazing stuff. It BONDS!
> It covers and lays out beautifully with a Scuff-X matte type sheen. Sands well too.


Good to know! Is that different than the t9000? I got a gallon of t9000 to test out on some oak cabinets.


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## thepm4 (May 18, 2020)

fromthenorthwest said:


> Good to know! Is that different than the t9000? I got a gallon of t9000 to test out on some oak cabinets.


No..same stuff...I used the first letter of product number and you used the last.😉


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## thepm4 (May 18, 2020)

From my limited experience with the E9000, (second project kitchen cab project this year) As of right now,I like using a 220 grit when I sand it (by hand) more than 320. This time I did notice that the primer kinda "pilled-up" a little more than just "powdered up". Nothing serious/didn't slow me way down, just sharing my experience. 

Just be aware, if you're gonna shoot the 1K over it, they strongly recommend waiting 24 hrs. 

Oh and btw...have you smelled it yet? It like some cross between Elmer's glue with a slight vinegar odor....not a noxious level, just like "wow..that's different". If you get time, share your experience with it.


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

thepm4 said:


> No..same stuff...I used the first letter of product number and you used the last.😉
> View attachment 113910


Ha! Ok good to know. Looking forward to trying it out.


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## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

thepm4 said:


> From my limited experience with the E9000, (second project kitchen cab project this year) As of right now,I like using a 220 grit when I sand it (by hand) more than 320. This time I did notice that the primer kinda "pilled-up" a little more than just "powdered up". Nothing serious/didn't slow me way down, just sharing my experience.
> 
> Just be aware, if you're gonna shoot the 1K over it, they strongly recommend waiting 24 hrs.
> 
> Oh and btw...have you smelled it yet? It like some cross between Elmer's glue with a slight vinegar odor....not a noxious level, just like "wow..that's different". If you get time, share your experience with it.


That's a bit of a bummer, I was hoping I could sand it pretty hard and possibly grain fill with a couple coats. Appreciate the warning! Haven't smelled it yet but now I'm curious☺


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