# Not the Time of Year to Haggle



## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Rarely does it happen but yesterday I went to do a bid and the guy wanted to haggle my price. All I could do was think to myself, "seriously?" 

Like most of you, we are so busy right now it's hard to catch our breath. In fact this guy was fortunate to even have me out there bidding right now - many guys have temporarily stopped doing them - but not me. I'm always after work I can schedule out there a month or more out. But still, trying to talk me down on my bid price _*this*_ time of year? Forget aboudit!


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

RH said:


> Rarely does it happen but yesterday I went to do a bid and the guy wanted to haggle my price. All I could do was think to myself, "seriously?"
> 
> Like most of you, we are so busy right now it's hard to catch our breath. In fact this guy was fortunate to even have me out there bidding right now - many guys have temporarily stopped doing them - but not me. I'm always after work I can schedule out there a month or more out. But still, trying to talk me down on my bid price _*this*_ time of year? Forget aboudit!


Is he a car dealer?


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

slinger58 said:


> Is he a car dealer?


No, it's worse - he's retired.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Lol. Yep, that's worse.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

RH said:


> No, it's worse - he's retired.


We offer a special 10% Reverse Retiree Discount. Basically, it's our top price plus 10%.


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## johnnyb (Jul 16, 2015)

^^^ :thumbup: :yes:


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## LA Painter (Jul 28, 2009)

RH said:


> Rarely does it happen but yesterday I went to do a bid and the guy wanted to haggle my price. All I could do was think to myself, "seriously?"


What a rookie. 

I always get my home improvement bids the week between X-mas and New Years. That’s when you can haggle like a pro. :thumbsup:


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

I got a call a week or so ago from a potential client. It was clear that she didn't want to wait until Fall of 2016, and she asked me if I could recommend a firm that could do the work right away. I replied no, because there are almost always good reasons why those firms can do the work right away.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

I got an email this past week.
*Customer writes:* _"Not going to waste you're time .. You're WAY out of the ballpark .. you're more than double our highest price …. Thanks anyway."

_I came in at 6k to remove difficult wallpaper in 4 average rooms (12x12 to 18x14), skim coat, prime walls, paint ceilings, walls and woodtrim - no doors or closets.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PaintersUnite said:


> I got an email this past week.
> *Customer writes:* _"Not going to waste you're time .. You're WAY out of the ballpark .. you're more than double our highest price …. Thanks anyway."
> 
> _I came in at 6k to remove difficult wallpaper in 4 average rooms (12x12 to 18x14), skim coat, prime walls, paint ceilings, walls and woodtrim - no doors or closets.



After being in business as long as you have, you must know there are going to be homeowners that just don't have an accurate perception of the labor and logistics that go into these jobs. Especially, when you are competing with contractors who have workers who are faster than you, and can provide a pretty similar product at the end of the day. 

This really doesn't surprise me, and I'm not even a painting contractor.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Gough said:


> I got a call a week or so ago from a potential client. It was clear that she didn't want to wait until Fall of 2016, and she asked me if I could recommend a firm that could do the work right away. I replied no, because there are almost always good reasons why those firms can do the work right away.


I tell potential customers the same thing. If someone says they can get to it at once then be sure to ask for references and then check them out. Of course, even the busiest of outfits can have a surprise opening once in awhile but, like most everyone else, we try to just move up another job that's in the queue.

Usually it's much to our advantage to go into a home and complete the entire project before moving on. With this guy however, I told him right off that we would likely have to break his job up into two phases which would give them time to catch their breath, reorganize, and move things out of the areas next up. Plus it would allow us to move to another job that will be waiting. His pitch to me was, "How about if I let you do the entire thing at the same time, would you knock of 20%?". Uh, no thanks.

I think his wife was sort of embarrassed that he even asked and got kinda' pissed off at him for it. 

Anyway, we will do it at our quoted price when we can fit it in - just like all the rest of them.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

CApainter said:


> After being in business as long as you have, you must know there are going to be homeowners that just don't have an accurate perception of the labor and logistics that go into these jobs. Especially, when you are competing with contractors who have workers who are faster than you, and can provide a pretty similar product at the end of the day.
> 
> This really doesn't surprise me, and I'm not even a painting contractor.


I am pretty darn fast. I just refuse to work at maniac speeds. 

I look at it like this, there are new guys out there every year, that don't know how to *estimate* *time and* *costs, *who work illegally across the board, and a year from now, they will be out of business.

I am a pretty good salesmen, this was a guy who started the work himself and was selling his home. fyi - "c" customer.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PaintersUnite said:


> I am pretty darn fast. I just refuse to work at maniac speeds.
> 
> I look at it like this, there are new guys out there every year, that don't know how to *estimate* *time and* *costs, *who work illegally across the board, and a year from now, they will be out of business.
> 
> I am a pretty good salesmen, this was a guy who started the work himself and was selling his home. fyi - "c" customer.


I think you mentioned once you were in your late forties or early fifties. There is no way you are going to keep up with a thirty year old seasoned undocumented worker day after income earning day. No way. And it's not like the learning curve to provide a decent paint job is that difficult to traverse.

I have come to the conclusion that salesmanship is irrelevant without charm, trust, or a cheap price. There's really nothing more to it then that, in my opinion. And before anyone jumps all over me for not being an experienced contractor, I've spent countless weekends being self employed.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

CApainter said:


> I think you mentioned once you were in your late forties or early fifties. *There is no way you are going to keep up with a thirty year old seasoned undocumented worker day after income earning day. No way.* And it's not like the learning curve to provide a decent paint job is that difficult to traverse.
> 
> I have come to the conclusion that salesmanship is irrelevant without charm, trust, or a cheap price. There's really nothing more to it then that, in my opinion. And before anyone jumps all over me for not being an experienced contractor, I've spent countless weekends being self employed.


CA, I have been doing the interior of this house since March 27, 2015, and as of July 26, I am still there. As you can see in the pic, I started this job when there was snow on the ground. 

I have known the owner for 20 years. It's NC and the guy is paying T&M. A month ago, he came in and says to me, "do you know how much this work is costing me"? I said yes! He states; I could have had a crew of illegals in here (not his actual words), and this place would have been done. I told him, I am doing a great job. He stated, "do you think you are the only one that can do a great job"? then he said, "you are competing with them"! "I stated, I am not competing with anyone", if you want to get them to finish the house, I am ok with that"! Then he said nothing and got in his car and left. 

When he left the job site, I was a little pissed so I packed my stuff up and went to a different job. 10 days later, he sent me a text, he stated, "I was just at the house, why are you not there?" LOL, True story.

The guy is a wealthy, extreme perfectionist. That is why I am still there and he didn't fire me. haha, I am that good. BTW - Speed was never something I took pride in.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

RH said:


> No, it's worse - he's retired.


*HEY*

You promised you would say anything


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Ha! Everyone of us thinks we're that good. In your case, some significant history has already been established. It's difficult for most people to change something that's working. I'm not surprised the guy wanted to keep you on.


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

I don't take it personally. I just politely let them know that is the price. 

I "haggle" with every contractor that walks in my door. Its just good business. Why pay $3,500 if the guy will take $3000? They also have the option of saying no and I would go with them anyway. It doesn't hurt to ask.


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## GR8painter (Dec 18, 2014)

PaintersUnite said:


> CA, I have been doing the interior of this house since March 27, 2015, and as of July 26, I am still there. As you can see in the pic, I started this job when there was snow on the ground.
> 
> I have known the owner for 20 years. It's NC and the guy is paying T&M. A month ago, he came in and says to me, "do you know how much this work is costing me"? I said yes! He states; I could have had a crew of illegals in here (not his actual words), and this place would have been done. I told him, I am doing a great job. He stated, "do you think you are the only one that can do a great job"? then he said, "you are competing with them"! "I stated, I am not competing with anyone", if you want to get them to finish the house, I am ok with that"! Then he said nothing and got in his car and left.
> 
> ...


If theres one thing that will get me to bail on a job, its someone that flips the script without warning and for no obvious reason. Either he was in a bad mood that day or he has a personality disorder. I just bounce to my next project early when confronted with stupidity.
tell him his lawn looks like ass!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> After being in business as long as you have, you must know there are going to be homeowners that just don't have an accurate perception of the labor and logistics that go into these jobs. Especially, when you are competing with contractors who have workers who are faster than you, and can provide a pretty similar product at the end of the day.
> 
> This really doesn't surprise me, and I'm not even a painting contractor.


Hey there are always the top notch contractors outside of Home Depot holding a sign that says "pinturas" that can get right on any paint job. Just drop them back off at the end of the day.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

PaintersUnite said:


> CA, I have been doing the interior of this house since March 27, 2015, and as of July 26, I am still there. As you can see in the pic, I started this job when there was snow on the ground.
> 
> I have known the owner for 20 years. It's NC and the guy is paying T&M. A month ago, he came in and says to me, "do you know how much this work is costing me"? I said yes! He states; I could have had a crew of illegals in here (not his actual words), and this place would have been done. I told him, I am doing a great job. He stated, "do you think you are the only one that can do a great job"? then he said, "you are competing with them"! "I stated, I am not competing with anyone", if you want to get them to finish the house, I am ok with that"! Then he said nothing and got in his car and left.
> 
> ...


Obviously you are doing a better job then his landscaper.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

PACman said:


> Obviously you are doing a better job then his landscaper.


ANYBODY was doing better than him(or her)


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## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

A common occurrence when I look at a job is the HO will say. Nick thanks for your proposal I was wondering does that include the garage and the shed plus the doors if so I'm ready when you are :no: the original quote was Front of house no shed no gaarage no doors etc. 

I don't mind and find it good business to paint a door, or bulkhead or fix something minior takes a hour or two. But I'm not giving away a day or more of labor plus materials :no:


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

PACman said:


> Obviously you are doing a better job then his landscaper.


That was funny. ha 
The home is unoccupied and still under construction. :whistling2:


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

CApainter said:


> Ha! Everyone of us thinks we're that good. In your case, some significant history has already been established. It's difficult for most people to change something that's working. I'm not surprised the guy wanted to keep you on.


Well, there is more to it than that. I am the 3rd painting contractor to do painting in this house. Remember, this is new construction. When I started this project, all the ceiling in the house were already painted, all the woodwork and doors were primed and 1st coated, the walls throughout were primed, 4 bedrooms were completely finished. 

Well, I repainted the entire place over again and corrected the tapers work, along with correcting the previous 2 pro painting contractors work.. 

The paint bill alone (my cost) on the project is 4k. And that doesn't include the previous painters costs.


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## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

Wow, that's all I can say. Absolutely beautiful work!!!


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## Paint Chip (Dec 25, 2013)

PaintersUnite said:


> That was funny. ha
> The home is unoccupied and still under construction. :whistling2:



Beautiful work. Love the coffered ceiling


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

PaintersUnite said:


> That was funny. ha
> The home is unoccupied and still under construction. :whistling2:


Awesome job, that ceiling's the cats meow. :yes:


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## Seth The Painter (Jun 24, 2015)

Sweeeeeet


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## PNW Painter (Sep 5, 2013)

I'm just curious why they ditched the other two contractors and hired you? 

Your craftsmanship is obviously top notch based on the photos. What products are you using?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Not to rain on anyone's parade here, and considering we are looking at pictures, but what exactly are we referring to as "top notch"? The craftsmanship of the builder? The architecture? The color coordination? Or, the careful painting between the lines?

And BTW, it is a very beautiful house and setting for a painter. I'm jealous!


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

CApainter said:


> Not to rain on anyone's parade here, and considering we are looking at pictures, but what exactly are we referring to as "top notch"? The craftsmanship of the builder? The architecture? The color coordination? Or, the careful painting between the lines?
> 
> And BTW, it is a very beautiful house and setting for a painter. I'm jealous![/QU
> ....


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

I don't know WHO specs the tops of chair rails to be painted wall color, but it's just wrong, especially if, in the future, it is decided wallpaper should be installed.











just don't see that in this part of the country - walls are walls, trim is trim. It's a New England thing, I guess


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

daArch said:


> I don't know WHO specs the tops of chair rails to be painted wall color, but it's just wrong, especially if, in the future, it is decided wallpaper should be installed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Don't see that here.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Seriously, you guys are looking at a reflection.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

PaintersUnite said:


> That was funny. ha
> The home is unoccupied and still under construction. :whistling2:


Nice shack! Who needs landscaping when the inside is that nice. Landscaping if for the neighbors.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

PaintersUnite said:


> Well, there is more to it than that. I am the 3rd painting contractor to do painting in this house. Remember, this is new construction. When I started this project, all the ceiling in the house were already painted, all the woodwork and doors were primed and 1st coated, the walls throughout were primed, 4 bedrooms were completely finished.
> 
> Well, I repainted the entire place over again and corrected the tapers work, along with correcting the previous 2 pro painting contractors work..
> 
> The paint bill alone (my cost) on the project is 4k. And that doesn't include the previous painters costs.


Did you take over for a painter from Idaho by chance?


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> Not to rain on anyone's parade here, and considering we are looking at pictures, but what exactly are we referring to as "top notch"? The craftsmanship of the builder? The architecture? The color coordination? Or, the careful painting between the lines?
> 
> And BTW, it is a very beautiful house and setting for a painter. I'm jealous!


The ability to make behr look awesome? A JOKE!


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> The ability to make behr look awesome? A JOKE!


Well, unless the ceiling looks like a reflective pool, which a PT member's pic had sometime back, I'm limited to my ordinary eyeball to determine top notch painting from a computer screen. And if BEHR was in fact used, it doesn't look any different than Regal Select from my vantage point. But I'm still jealous of the glamorous life the residential painter leads. 

Instead, I'm painting some funky AC registers for a funky job trailer. (Control your excitement. Pics will follow after I'm done)


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

CApainter said:


> Well, unless the ceiling looks like a reflective pool, which a PT member's pic had sometime back, I'm limited to my ordinary eyeball to determine top notch painting from a computer screen. And if BEHR was in fact used, it doesn't look any different than Regal Select from my vantage point. But I'm still jealous of the glamorous life the residential painter leads.
> 
> Instead, I'm painting some funky AC registers for a funky job trailer. (Control your excitement. Pics will follow after I'm done)


I'd have to 100% agree with CA here. I once asked the first guy who trained me why he didn't take pics of his work to create a portfolio. He basically said, any picture can make a paint job look like it was done perfectly unless it was done really badly.

I was actually really surprised when I joined PT to see so many people posting pics of their work. It's always nice to see nice houses people are working in, etc., but I honestly have no idea whether a good paint job was done or not.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> Well, unless the ceiling looks like a reflective pool, which a PT member's pic had sometime back, I'm limited to my ordinary eyeball to determine top notch painting from a computer screen. And if BEHR was in fact used, it doesn't look any different than Regal Select from my vantage point. But I'm still jealous of the glamorous life the residential painter leads.
> 
> Instead, I'm painting some funky AC registers for a funky job trailer. (Control your excitement. Pics will follow after I'm done)


Hey we can all assume that when a job is done by a top notch painter then it is a top notch job. Pics or no pics. But we all know that a picture taken with a cell phone viewed on a computer screen isn't the best way to judge a coat of paint. It takes an experienced eye to appreciate quality. But, until paintersunite pays for me to fly to wherever this home is, the job in the pictures look quite nice.

And I am sure you are doing a top notch job on those job trailers too.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Wildbill7145 said:


> I'd have to 100% agree with CA here. I once asked the first guy who trained me why he didn't take pics of his work to create a portfolio. He basically said, any picture can make a paint job look like it was done perfectly unless it was done really badly.
> 
> I was actually really surprised when I joined PT to see so many people posting pics of their work. It's always nice to see nice houses people are working in, etc., but I honestly have no idea whether a good paint job was done or not.


This is absolutely so true. 

And even a really badly done job can look fabulous with just a wee bit of photo editing. I was not above "tweaking" my pix on my website to improve the looks of the job. Some were a little more "enhanced" than others and some just small edits to hide something the camera caught that the eye wouldn't. 75% of my pix were tweaked to "bring out the best" of the job.

Ever since being blessed with digital toys, I've often said I can prove photographically that I shot Lincoln. 

I laugh when I see perfect job photos, especially when I know the "craftsperson" knows his way around a computer and editing software. 

It's all smoke and mirrors. Pay no attention to the man behind the screen.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

CApainter said:


> Seriously, you guys are looking at a reflection.


Reflection of what reflecting on what?

Are you saying the horizontal top surface of the chair rail is white and the tan walls are reflecting onto the white? I perceive the color of that element to too consistent to be a reflection and the change from tan to white is too straight along the length of the piece and around the corner. I bet it was taped and sprayed that way. .


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

daArch said:


> This is absolutely so true.
> 
> And even a really badly done job can look fabulous with just a wee bit of photo editing. I was not above "tweaking" my pix on my website to improve the looks of the job. Some were a little more "enhanced" than others and some just small edits to hide something the camera caught that the eye wouldn't. 75% of my pix were tweaked to "bring out the best" of the job.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't even entertain the thought of a paint pic being photo edited, because, if you can simply paint between the lines, any paint pic will look good.

I don't believe what impresses us about PainterUnite's pics is so much about the quality of the paint job, but rather, the uniqueness of the architecture and the color coordination. Had he posted a pic of a damged wall that he skillfully repaired with efforts far surpassing what he has currently displayed, we would still be more impressed with the mansion. 

Now if PaintersUnite admitted to the color design in this house, I would really be impressed!


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

daArch said:


> Reflection of what reflecting on what?
> 
> Are you saying the horizontal top surface of the chair rail is white and the tan walls are reflecting onto the white? I perceive the color of that element to too consistent to be a reflection and the change from tan to white is too straight along the length of the piece and around the corner. I bet it was taped and sprayed that way. .


Don't let CD see you totally convinced that that's not a reflection...He. Hee..Hee He.*cough* hee.:blink:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

CApainter said:


> I wouldn't even entertain the thought of a paint pic being photo edited, because, if you can simply paint between the lines, any paint pic will look good.
> 
> I don't believe what impresses us about PainterUnite's pics is so much about the quality of the paint job, but rather, the uniqueness of the architecture and the color coordination. Had he posted a pic of a damged wall that he skillfully repaired with efforts far surpassing what he has currently displayed, we would still be more impressed with the mansion.
> 
> Now if PaintersUnite admitted to the color design in this house, I would really be impressed!


OK, I get ya.

And yah, "unique" and "coordination" are applicable terms. 

That's one great aspect of this work, being in homes that are (cough) "unique" with colors that someone has felt coordinated. I was forever amazed by the tastes I encountered.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Here's a beauty we just finished up. Notice the clean lines and full coverage. No photoshop here:














J/k.....


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> Here's a beauty we just finished up. Notice the clean lines and full coverage. No photoshop here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They're painting the walls before the ceiling? Boy, that's dumb.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

slinger58 said:


> They're painting the walls before the ceiling? Boy, that's dumb.


 Floors and fridge first!


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> Floors and fridge first!


And don't forget those ceiling fan blades.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

daArch said:


> I don't know WHO specs the tops of chair rails to be painted wall color, but it's just wrong, especially if, in the future, it is decided wallpaper should be installed.


:no:


daArch said:


> *And even a really badly done job can look fabulous with just a wee bit of photo editing. *
> 
> It's all smoke and mirrors. Pay no attention to the man behind the screen.


Awww arch, you tweak your pics? :blink: 
Here is a little photo tweaking, it's called, zoom it.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Maybe I do have a keen eye after all!


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

What you guys call reflection I call shadow.

I think the chair rail in this thread has been white all along.

Lighting. Angle. Perspective. Those things change.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

CApainter said:


> Maybe I do have a keen eye after all!












Please John, help me

My eyes are old. I am famboozled how this appears to you to show that the top of the chair rail is the same white as the wainscott?

You obviously see it's white, and I don't. Are different monitors so differently adjusted? Am I the only one with a bad monitor? Or should I see an eye doc QUICK?


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

daArch said:


> Please John, help me
> 
> My eyes are old. I am famboozled how this appears to you to show that the top of the chair rail is the same white as the wainscott?
> 
> You obviously see it's white, and I don't. Are different monitors so differently adjusted? Am I the only one with a bad monitor? Or should I see an eye doc QUICK?


Do I have this correct, since you ended with a wink thingy, it means you aren't being serious?

(Take pity on me, I've been painting with alkyds indoors all week.)


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

daArch said:


> Please John, help me
> 
> My eyes are old. I am famboozled how this appears to you to show that the top of the chair rail is the same white as the wainscott?
> 
> You obviously see it's white, and I don't. Are different monitors so differently adjusted? Am I the only one with a bad monitor? Or should I see an eye doc QUICK?


Get a monitor made in this century, you old miser! :jester:


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## GR8painter (Dec 18, 2014)

Why I'm a firm believer of "not" posting pics of my work on my site. So 90s. I think most people these days know you can't judge squat from someones actual work. Too many variables starting with a cell phone camera, lack of experience in photography, back lighting on monitor. 
Like any other professional marketing campaign would know, the pics create a feeling, regardless if you did it or not, so let the pro photographers do their job. Seriously, most pics anyone here would take do not compare, and don't convey the feeling as strongly, trust me.

Whats more important is "what" you say on your site, and how you say it. If you just say what everyone else says, and you just say it the same way, then you're perceived as just another painting outfit. This is where the art is, and where I put in all my creativity. If you don't have that skill, hire someone to write it, its cheap and well worth it.

Of course this doesn't mean your pics would be a negative on your site, just means it wouldn't be as big of a positive as it could be.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

I paint paint said:


> Do I have this correct, since you ended with a wink thingy, it means you aren't being serious?
> 
> (Take pity on me, I've been painting with alkyds indoors all week.)





slinger58 said:


> Get a monitor made in this century, you old miser! :jester:


We must be perceiving different surfaces as being the top horizontal surface of the char rail. So allow me to clarify what I see as that surface being tan.

What color do you see the surface bordered by orange ? (and do'nt you be telling me that border ain't no orange :no









I GOTTA figure this one out


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Of course, nice job pics on a web site aren't there to impress other painters - just prospective customers..


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## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

On my computer the surface you bordered in orange looks like the white on the wainscoating. I guess the person to answer the question is the painter but It sure looks white to me and not wall color. 


Look at the photo with the zoom in and the unzoomed look at the chair rail by the door its fairly obvious on my computer it is white.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

CApainter said:


> Well, unless the ceiling looks like a reflective pool, which a PT member's pic had sometime back, I'm limited to my ordinary eyeball to determine top notch painting from a computer screen. And if BEHR was in fact used, it doesn't look any different than Regal Select from my vantage point. But I'm still jealous of the glamorous life the residential painter leads.
> 
> Instead, I'm painting some funky AC registers for a funky job trailer. (Control your excitement. Pics will follow after I'm done)


Drugs, women, booze, the adulation of our fans, staying up late, sleeping until noon… yup, we _*are*_ the rock stars of the painting world. :whistling2:


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

RH said:


> Of course, nice job pics on a web site aren't there to impress other painters - just prospective customers..


or one's self


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

daArch said:


> Please John, help me
> 
> My eyes are old. I am famboozled how this appears to you to show that the top of the chair rail is the same white as the wainscott?
> 
> You obviously see it's white, and I don't. Are different monitors so differently adjusted? Am I the only one with a bad monitor? Or should I see an eye doc QUICK?


I see what you are seeing, maybe you have to be REAL old:blink:


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## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

Besides the haggle customers we also get the customers who tell us how to do the job. Yesterday I walked away from. $7500 dollar exterior because I knew there was going to be no pleasing this lady and her husband. I've been around the block and then some in this business. It's why I don't take deposits and another reason why they call lots people who live here Mass holes.

Every time I tried to awnser this lady's question she cut me off and told me how the job should be done. She also complained about the prior painter then praised him:blink: I don't need the stress or aggravation of dealing with customers like this even if I'm slow I won't do it. I'll say it again some of my best jobs are the ones I didnot take. :yes:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

jacob33 said:


> On my computer the surface you bordered in orange looks like the white on the wainscoating. I guess the person to answer the question is the painter but It sure looks white to me and not wall color.
> 
> 
> Look at the photo with the zoom in and the unzoomed look at the chair rail by the door its fairly obvious on my computer it is white.


At this point, I am not concerned about what the reality is, but what my monitors show. ALL monitors (4 LCD's) in the house, my iTouch, and the WW's iPad all show that area as tan, albeit a slightly lighter tan than the wall (more light showing on it than the wall). Not to belabor the point, but I am quite finicky about calibrating the monitors and this bothers me that apparently a number of different monitors used on PT see different colors. 

This is another reason why displaying pix over the internet is fraught with uncertainties. And why I would tell customers NOT to buy color as seen on their screens.

Don't be surprised if I can find some testing/calibrating pix and start another thread to see what different people see.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

chrisn said:


> I see what you are seeing, maybe you have to be REAL old:blink:


or maybe mescalin is forever :thumbsup:


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

daArch said:


> This is absolutely so true.
> 
> And even a really badly done job can look fabulous with just a wee bit of photo editing. I was not above "tweaking" my pix on my website to improve the looks of the job. Some were a little more "enhanced" than others and some just small edits to hide something the camera caught that the eye wouldn't. 75% of my pix were tweaked to "bring out the best" of the job.
> 
> ...


So that's how they make those Behr brochures! I am shocked!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> Here's a beauty we just finished up. Notice the clean lines and full coverage. No photoshop here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You need to stop using those cheap ass rollers. And some primer would help the hold out quite a bit. Not trying to be super critical, just some recommendations.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Pictures cannot show the tiny little pieces of grit that are in most dried Behr and Valspar finishes either. Only a real close look or a touch of a hand will reveal them. But, most people don't care how smooth paint is as long as it's cheap and covers well.
I still can't figure out what kind of magic you behr and Valspar(are there ANY Valspar guys?) guys are doing that you can get this grit to not be in the film of your jobs.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Calm down people, and let's use a little logic. No designer in their right mind would ever OK the top shelf of that chair rail to be painted the wall color. Never! Besides, nothing else is coordinated with that sort of scheme.

BTW, PaintersUnite already insinuated that it's not painted the wall color. Can we move on to the haggle please?


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

PACman said:


> Pictures cannot show the tiny little pieces of grit that are in most dried Behr and Valspar finishes either. Only a real close look or a touch of a hand will reveal them. But, most people don't care how smooth paint is as long as it's cheap and covers well.
> I still can't figure out what kind of magic you behr and Valspar(are there ANY Valspar guys?) guys are doing that you can get this grit to not be in the film of your jobs.


:thumbup:

For years, we worked with a top-notch builder doing NC. He would never walk through a job without running his hand over the walls and trim. Woe be unto the painter who left nibs in the finished product.

We were sorry when he retired. He ran great jobs, paid on time, and *always* had our back.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

CApainter said:


> Calm down people, and let's use a little logic. No designer in their right mind would ever OK the top shelf of that chair rail to be painted the wall color. Never! Besides, nothing else is coordinated with that sort of scheme.
> 
> BTW, PaintersUnite already insinuated that it's not painted the wall color. Can we move on to the haggle please?


John, who's not being calm? 

I think I posted a comment that went something like this:



me said:


> At this point, I am not concerned about what the reality is, but what my monitors show. ALL monitors (4 LCD's) in the house, my iTouch, and the WW's iPad all show that area as tan, albeit a slightly lighter tan than the wall (more light showing on it than the wall). Not to belabor the point, but I am quite finicky about calibrating the monitors and this bothers me that apparently a number of different monitors used on PT see different colors.


And also as said, I hope to explore the discrepancy in another thread. CALMLY

Having monitors that are calibrated, IMO, is very important. 

I've moved on from what color that surface is, it only served to show that different people are seeing different colors.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

PACman said:


> Pictures cannot show the tiny little pieces of grit that are in most dried Behr and Valspar finishes either. Only a real close look or a touch of a hand will reveal them. But, most people don't care how smooth paint is as long as it's cheap and covers well.
> I still can't figure out what kind of magic you behr and Valspar(are there ANY Valspar guys?) guys are doing that you can get this grit to not be in the film of your jobs.


When installing wallpaper, one soon realizes how many nibs, specks, divots, and other imperfections exist on flat (as in sheen) walls. They are not obvious to the eye, until wallpaper is hung and they stick out like a sore thumb. 

Part of my prep work was to blade all walls smooth and even while hanging if I missed one, it would be removed.

I can't say that any one paint brand was inherently worse than another because I never knew positively what paint was used, but I doubt that Behr was used on all of them. And I ain't even gonna blame the paint. Too many folks just do not take the extra steps to strain paint and wipe walls. And why should they, with flat paint, those things are not seen. 

And yes, I know many here DO take the steps just out of pride of their work. :thumbsup:


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

daArch said:


> When installing wallpaper, one soon realizes how many nibs, specks, divots, and other imperfections exist on flat (as in sheen) walls. They are not obvious to the eye, until wallpaper is hung and they stick out like a sore thumb.
> 
> Part of my prep work was to blade all walls smooth and even while hanging if I missed one, it would be removed.
> 
> ...


 It's true that you can't blame the paint when the prep quite often sucks. But drawdowns and grind gauges are a different matter altogether.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

daArch said:


> John, who's not being calm?
> 
> I think I posted a comment that went something like this:
> 
> ...


My monitor has the chair rail looking exactly like the wall color. But my instincts, experience, and just plain ole folksy common sense, ensures me that it's not. Oh...and my humility provokes me to share my knowledge with the world.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

CApainter said:


> My monitor has the chair rail looking exactly like the wall color. But my instincts, experience, and just plain ole folksy common sense, ensures me that it's not. Oh...and my humility provokes me to share my knowledge with the world.


thank you for the confirmation my monitor nor my eyes have failed.

Now we can argue opinions of what is really real until the cows come home :whistling2: Or maybe it's time to take it to the PZ and snipe back and forth about how, what, and why our political leanings influence what we see as reality :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

daArch said:


> thank you for the confirmation my monitor nor my eyes have failed.
> 
> Now we can argue opinions of what is really real until the cows come home :whistling2: Or maybe it's time to take it to the PZ and snipe back and forth about how, what, and why our political leanings influence what we see as reality :thumbup: :thumbup:


I really can't see anything anymore, so obviously I've degenerated into some wacko independent.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

I'm confused, have we reached the consensus that perception is reality, or not?

I think I'll be a nihilist at the end of the day either way.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

DrakeB said:


> I'm confused, have we reached the consensus that perception is reality, or not?
> 
> I think I'll be a nihilist at the end of the day either way.


Perception is reality, provided by the internet. Whoa I just got deep.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> Perception is reality, provided by the internet. Whoa I just got deep.


You better check your shorts.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

reality is really just what we perceive to be a virtual perception of the perceived reality.... REALLY

or what you sci-fi movie buffs would call, The Matrix


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

You guys hijacked my thread and took it off into previously unknown levels of weird. "They" were right - karma is a bitch.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

RH said:


> You guys hijacked my thread and took it off into previously unknown kevels of weird. "They" were right - karma is a bitch.


Rule is, "after 20 posts, any thread is fair game". And we didn't even have to lure it off the reservation with raw meat. :thumbup: :thumbsup:


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

daArch said:


> Rule is, "after 20 posts, any thread is fair game". And we didn't even have to lure it off the reservation with raw meat. :thumbup: :thumbsup:


Poor Cecil.  :2guns:


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

PNW Painter said:


> I'm just curious why they ditched the other two contractors and hired you?
> 
> Your craftsmanship is obviously top notch based on the photos. What products are you using?


I am doing work directly for the Homeowner. The builders painters got kicked off, I didn't ask why. The HO hired a painting contractor who goes to his church and he fired the guy because he didn't do amazing work. The HO is unbelievable picky. He has had me paint rooms 4 times with 4 different colors, until he found a color he likes. He has done the same thing with other trades. I was told that the carpenter was paid 100k to do the interior trim work, and the electricians told me that they were paid enough money to do 2 house this size. Masonry guys, ripped down exterior siding because the HO didn't like it, and then stoned the side instead. 

I am using all Sherwin Williams products here. 



PACman said:


> Obviously you are doing a better job then his landscaper.


Damn, is that you pro alliance coatings? what be shaken bud?
Here's some landscaping for ya. 85 acres. BTW :jester:all the crops have been tweaked. It's really dirt. I thought it would be cool to make it look (cough, cough), like it was on a farm. pssssst, lets just let our bud keep thinking this is all smoke and mirrors.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

PaintersUnite said:


> Damn, is that you pro alliance coatings? what be shaken bud?
> Here's some landscaping for ya. 85 acres. BTW :jester:all the crops have been tweaked. It's really dirt. I thought it would be cool to make it look (cough, cough), like it was on a farm. pssssst, lets just let our bud keep thinking this is all smoke and mirrors.


Which part of the state is that. I didn't know that much flat farm land existed.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

I paint paint said:


> Poor Cecil.  :2guns:


Shall we REALLY show RH what a thread derailment is?

Let's discuss Palmer's "hunting", fishing, and sexual conduct ethics. :thumbsup:


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

daArch said:


> Shall we REALLY show RH what a thread derailment is?
> 
> Let's discuss Palmer's "hunting", *fishing, and sexual conduct ethics.* :thumbsup:


The story must have really advanced in short time. The clip I heard yesterday only reported the hunting. Intrigued.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

I paint paint said:


> The story must have really advanced in short time. The clip I heard yesterday only reported the hunting. Intrigued.


C'mon man, have not a life and be absorbed by the daily dirt of the interweb.

I had heard about the bear felony, but not the sexual harassment. This story is pure gold for the masses. The Kardashians are feeling like so last year. 

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/c...-james-palmer-has-bear-related-felony-n400226


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

daArch said:


> C'mon man, have not a life and be absorbed by the daily dirt of the interweb.
> 
> I had heard about the bear felony, but not the sexual harassment. This story is pure gold for the masses. The Kardashians are feeling like so last year.
> 
> http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/c...-james-palmer-has-bear-related-felony-n400226


You forgot the fishing without a license part. Taken together it calls into question his apology letter to his patients about "pursuit of an activity I love and practice responsibly and legally resulted in the taking of this lion".


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Gough said:


> You forgot the fishing without a license part. Taken together it calls into question his apology letter to his patients about "pursuit of an activity I love and practice responsibly and legally resulted in the taking of this lion".



Ah yes, I forgot to mention that. :thumbup:


But I do LOVE his whiter than white teeth. Usually the "cobbler's children go barefoot"


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

PaintersUnite said:


> I am doing work directly for the Homeowner. The builders painters got kicked off, I didn't ask why. The HO hired a painting contractor who goes to his church and he fired the guy because he didn't do amazing work. The HO is unbelievable picky. He has had me paint rooms 4 times with 4 different colors, until he found a color he likes. He has done the same thing with other trades. I was told that the carpenter was paid 100k to do the interior trim work, and the electricians told me that they were paid enough money to do 2 house this size. Masonry guys, ripped down exterior siding because the HO didn't like it, and then stoned the side instead.
> 
> I am using all Sherwin Williams products here.
> 
> ...


Nice piece of property. Maybe the farmer will take care of his landscaping for him like they do around here. There are million dollar houses with corn fields all around them to hide them from prying eyes in my area. People gotta learn that if you don't buy the frontage land, the Amish are still going to plant it! People don't want to pay the premium for frontage so they buy a strip to put in a driveway. Then the Amish go ahead and plant between the house and the road. Pretty funny actually.

And I know not of the proalliance coatings you have referenced.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

RH said:


> You guys hijacked my thread and took it off into previously unknown levels of weird. "They" were right - karma is a bitch.


Sorry bout that. I feel for ya. 
BTW - haggling any time of the year sux. Even when I buy a vehicle, I never haggle with the salesmen.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

PACman said:


> Nice piece of property. Maybe the farmer will take care of his landscaping for him like they do around here. There are million dollar houses with corn fields all around them to hide them from prying eyes in my area. People gotta learn that if you don't buy the frontage land, the Amish are still going to plant it! People don't want to pay the premium for frontage so they buy a strip to put in a driveway. Then the Amish go ahead and plant between the house and the road. Pretty funny actually.
> 
> And I know not of the proalliance coatings you have referenced.


In New Construction, the lawn and garden are the last phase of the work (come on, you know that ). I am sure when he moves in, he will hire a landscaper.

Regarding the farm, he is leasing that portion of the property to the farmers. Property tax is lower for farm land. The HO is a real estate investor, he owns 25 houses - smart guy. Believe it or not, he started his livelihood as a Union roofer many moons ago.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

PaintersUnite said:


> In New Construction, the lawn and garden are the last phase of the work (come on, you know that ). I am sure when he moves in, he will hire a landscaper.
> 
> Regarding the farm, he is leasing that portion of the property to the farmers. Property tax is lower for farm land. The HO is a real estate investor, he owns 25 houses - smart guy. Believe it or not, he started his livelihood as a Union roofer many moons ago.


Yes I know the landscaping comes last! Here, the frontage property has a tax premium on top of residential use tax. Makes for some interesting landscaping though. What really fun is when the Amish "fertilize" it, and all the city slickers that wanted a house in the country bitch about the smell. And then they all want organic vegetables.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

It MUST be the time of year to haggle.

I put a $20 item on craigslist (back of vehicle bike rack) A local guy came by, asked me to show how it works, liked it, put in car and asked, "how about $15"

"Why, is there something wrong with it"

"Nope"

"so you're just haggling for the sake of haggling"

"yup"

"for $5.00?"

"take it or leave it"

Pissing off a fellow townsman for $5 just to win "the art of the game"

stupid douche


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Shame you're not around here, I woulda given ya $ 25 for it.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

DrakeB said:


> Shame you're not around here, I woulda given ya $ 25 for it.


tree fiddy.


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

daArch said:


> Shall we REALLY show RH what a thread derailment is?
> 
> Let's discuss Palmer's "hunting", fishing, and sexual conduct ethics. :thumbsup:


He's taking this sadism thing pretty far--even for a dentist.

It's not enough he gets to torture patients day in day out, so in his leisure time he stalks lions, bears, and dental assistants?


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

daArch said:


> Which part of the state is that. I didn't know that much flat farm land existed.


More like which state is that:blink:


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

daArch said:


> Which part of the state is that. I didn't know that much flat farm land existed.


maybe it's in the "Western Reserve" portion of Connecticut. That's where I am. Plenty of nice flat farmland over here!


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

PACman said:


> maybe it's in the "Western Reserve" portion of Connecticut. That's where I am. Plenty of nice flat farmland over here!


We're so far off topic, what the heck: it's amazing to think about Connecticut's original claim of "sea to sea". Imagine it running all the way to the Pacific.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

PACman said:


> maybe it's in the "Western Reserve" portion of Connecticut. That's where I am. *Plenty of nice flat farmland* over here!


Flat land?:blink:


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

PaintersUnite said:


> Flat land?:blink:


That's fairly flat. Not Texas panhandle flat. Some hills in the background there. After living in California for ten years I learned the difference between hills and mountains. Anything east of Denver- thems hills.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

PACman said:


> That's fairly flat. Not Texas panhandle flat. Some hills in the background there. After living in California for ten years I learned the difference between hills and mountains. Anything east of Denver- thems hills.


These are the rolling hills around here:









Not many flat building lots.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

PaintersUnite said:


> Flat land?:blink:


I don't know how you work with the world being that crooked there.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

PaintersUnite said:


> Flat land?:blink:


I know CT fairly well, which town is it?


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Gough said:


> These are the rolling hills around here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That sure is purdy tho


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Damon T said:


> That sure is purdy tho


Mostly beige by this time of the year, especially this year.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Damon T said:


> That sure is purdy tho


 I can't wait to get over there this fall. Love the Palouse, Go Cougs!


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> I can't wait to get over there this fall. Love the Palouse, Go Cougs!


Aren't you operating in enemy territory??


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Gough said:


> Aren't you operating in enemy territory??


 Go Dawgs!


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

daArch said:


> I know CT fairly well, which town is it?


It's the land of Oz! :thumbup:


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I had a feeling this thread would end up with flying monkeys. Very disturbing


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

It's my thread so I can kill it whenever I want to - and I'm just about there.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

RH said:


> It's my thread so I can kill it whenever I want to - and I'm just about there.


Amen! :thumbsup:


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

CApainter said:


> I had a feeling this thread would end up with flying monkeys. Very disturbing


here ya go


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

PaintersUnite said:


> It's the land of Oz! :thumbup:


I wonder. Do they only use Emerald when they paint in the emerald city?


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

PACman said:


> I wonder. Do they only use Emerald when they paint in the emerald city?


Yes, but it's all a bunch of smoke and mirrors


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

PRC said:


> Yes, but it's all a bunch of smoke and mirrors


Smoke and mirrors - hmmmm, reminds me of the 70's :whistling2:


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

daArch said:


> Smoke and mirrors - hmmmm, reminds me of the 70's :whistling2:


Wow. You remember the 70's? Lightweight.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

PACman said:


> Wow. You remember the 70's? Lightweight.


I like to think of myself as RESILIENT. Yah know, damaged, but not demented. 

I figured if I didn't join the 27 Club, I was good to go.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

daArch said:


> I like to think of myself as RESILIENT. Yah know, damaged, but not demented.
> 
> I figured if I didn't join the 27 Club, I was good to go.


Ha! I remember the morning I woke up on my 28th birthday! I swear I had a smile on my face the whole day.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

daArch said:


> I like to think of myself as RESILIENT. Yah know, damaged, but not demented.
> 
> I figured if I didn't join the 27 Club, I was good to go.


Of course now it will be the 72 club.

On a somewhat serious note, but along the lines this current hijack is going, my mom passed away at age 56 from ALS (Lou Gerihg's disease). When I turned 57 I had a very private (as in one) remembrance party. So far, at age 62, no symptoms.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

RH said:


> Of course now it will be the 72 club.
> 
> On a somewhat serious note, but along the lines this current hijack is going, my mom passed away at age 56 from ALS (Lou Gehrig's disease). When I turned 57 I had a very private (as in one) remembrance party/celebration. So far, at age 62, no symptoms.


I don't know, that mouse comment was pretty demented


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

Arch, I Hate When............... #2 



slinger58 said:


> Get a monitor made in this century, you old miser! :jester:


And a pair of glasses, a little monitor cleaner as well, or a hammer and trash can! :whistling2:


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

I paint paint said:


> What you guys call reflection I call shadow.
> 
> *I think the chair rail in this thread has been white all along.
> 
> Lighting. Angle. Perspective. Those things change.*


An experienced professional painter speaks! :thumbsup: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfeL6OkiiJs


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