# You might be a G.C. If,



## Steve Burnett (May 28, 2012)

If you think the painter should return multiple times to "touch up", and you think recoating all of the walls... AGAIN is touch up...

You might be a G.C. 

#dirtbagbuilders


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## Steve Burnett (May 28, 2012)

If your running 3 weeks behind schedule, before painting even begins, but expect the painter to work through the weekend, uh even though it is a holiday... 

Now, don't call the GC while busting your but through the weekend, well because it's a holiday and he shouldn't be bothered....

You might be a G.C. 

#dirtbagbuilders 


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## Steve Burnett (May 28, 2012)

If you ask for extras and say "don't worry, I'll take care of you."


You might be a G.C. 

#dirtbagbuilders


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## Steve Burnett (May 28, 2012)

If you don't handle your finances responsibly, leaving you strapped for cash flow, ( the new duly truck payments are tough to make, I understand! ) and can't pay the painter upon completion...

You might be a G.C. 

#dirtbagbuilders


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## Steve Burnett (May 28, 2012)

If you think that every hard working, sweating, hustling, trade that helps build your customers home is just another one of your underlings....

You might be a G.C. 

#dirtbagbuilders


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

You use unfinished 1x pine stock and when the painter mentions it you tell him that's how you know its real wood. Just paint it. 

Of course the new homeowners aren't thrilled and it takes three call backs to make them happy. Millwork still looks like crap imo. 

Stiff the painter on that last invoice because you can.


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## Steve Burnett (May 28, 2012)

^ Yeah, you defiantly might be a G.C.

#dirtbagbuilders 


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Steve. If I EVER decide to work for a GC again, I want you to kick me in the nuts, take my wallet, and I think I'll _still_ be better off. :yes:


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

Just curious, and I'm sure this will open a can of worms, but.......are the GC's (residential) really that bad on the east coast? 

I've never seen anyone talk highly about them here on paint talk, which makes me think....are they all that bad? 7 out 10? 9 out of 10 are? 

Just curious.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

woodcoyote said:


> Just curious, and I'm sure this will open a can of worms, but.......are the GC's (residential) really that bad on the east coast?
> 
> I've never seen anyone talk highly about them here on paint talk, which makes me think....are they all that bad? 7 out 10? 9 out of 10 are?
> 
> Just curious.



My experience is about the opposite. Probably 7 out 10 have been decent guys. About the same as people in general.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

I have one GC who I can honestly say if I had to work for someone every day all day long, he's the one I'd work for. Sometimes he does things out of order a bit, but he's incredibly coooperative and demands this of all the trades. Never questions my concerns or suggestions. Always pays on time. Always brings coffee!

I don't think this is the norm though.

Edit: I should also add that he's quite involved in the entire process doing a good chunk of the fine trimwork, tile work, etc. himself. Absolutely not afraid to get his hands dirty.


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## The 3rd Coat (Aug 17, 2013)

^ Definiely not. Most GC's are absolute low-lives and I wouldn't expect anything else from a glorified salesman.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

In 30+ years we worked for three good builders/GC's. Paid on time, kept everyone else out of our way, and generally had our back. Sadly, they've all retired or changed professions. The new ones and the remaining crop are just has everyone had described above. 

After about a decade away, we're doing a project with a GC right now. It's prettying much exactly as Schmidt described. The only positive is that we've been hired by the HO directly, so we will get paid. But the GC has already put the whole summer's schedule in the dumper.


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## capepainter (Mar 9, 2012)

I do work for a great GC pays on time schedule is good , but I've worked for some real clowns had to chase $$ and all around pieces of garbage.


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## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

You might be a G.C. if you hang trim UNFINISHED on the walls and expect the painter to stain and polyurethane it all in 2 days!

You might be a G.C. if you check on one of your nearly completed homes after leaving one that's under way tracking "mud" onto the new carpet, only to find out that the "mud" was one of your worker's BM that was dispatched onto the concrete basement floor of the house you just started framing down the street.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

We turn down project offers from GC's everyday. Most are put out but I'm sorry the reputation of your part of the trades is overwhelming negative from both your customers and your subs. We don't need it. They're are only 2 we work with. Every time I step into that mine field again I get burnt


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## Steve Burnett (May 28, 2012)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Steve. If I EVER decide to work for a GC again, I want you to kick me in the nuts, take my wallet, and I think I'll _still_ be better off. :yes:



If my buddy Paul would rather I take his wallet and kick him in the nuts the next time I see him then work for you,

you might be a G.C. 

#dirtbagbuilders

LOLOL! Paul, you are too much man! I hope to see you at the next PDCA EXPO my friend! 

If I do, I'll be sure to ask you... ^





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## Steve Burnett (May 28, 2012)

aaron61 said:


> We turn down project offers from GC's everyday. Most are put out but I'm sorry the reputation of your part of the trades is overwhelming negative from both your customers and your subs. We don't need it. They're are only 2 we work with. Every time I step into that mine field again I get burnt




Same here Aaron. It's been 11 glorious years sense getting jerked around by a G.C. 

We smile and politely pass when they call. 😎






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## Steve Burnett (May 28, 2012)

If you have ever called our office saying how your "thinking you might give us a shot at bidding on one of your projects." 

You might be a G.C. 

#dirtbagbuilders




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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Steve Burnett said:


> Same here Aaron. It's been 11 glorious years sense getting jerked around by a G.C.
> 
> We smile and politely pass when they call. 😎
> 
> ...


Steve, the post would have been a lot more helpful...if you'd made it TWO MONTHS AGO!

What can I say? I'm old, I forget things. When we were approached by this GC about the current project, I thought, "Was working for them really as bad as I remember?" On day one I was reminded that it wasn't, it's far worse. 

We used to say that we'd work for a GC if they ONLY doubled the amount of work we had to do.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Wow, you guys paint a seriously scary picture of GC's. Most of my work has been with HO. Other than the guy I mentioned above, I did some work for a GC that does jobs for insurance companies. That was one of the worst experiences I've ever had.

I don't return his calls or text messages anymore. He seems to have gotten the hint.


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## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

Jmayspaint said:


> My experience is about the opposite. Probably 7 out 10 have been decent guys. About the same as people in general.


Have you been in a position with each of them that tests their character and resolve? You don't know a person until you've walked through hard times with them.
I'm just a paperhanger and don't stay on jobs as long as painters so I'm not as challenged as you guys. (HA I just saw how that was worded... "as challenged as you guys")
I've had to do electric work simply because I was the last person to touch sconces that were put in poorly. The GC wasn't going to do it and the electrician would have charged them.

And yes, I've lost work because they weren't ready for me and I've been lied to about finish dates.

:cowboy:


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Underdog said:


> Have you been in a position with each of them that tests their character and resolve? You don't know a person until you've walked through hard times with them.
> I'm just a paperhanger and don't stay on jobs as long as painters so I'm not as challenged as you guys. (HA I just saw how that was worded... "as challenged as you guys")
> I've had to do electric work simply because I was the last person to touch sconces that were put in poorly. The GC wasn't going to do it and the electrician would have charged them.
> 
> ...


There's an old trick so you can tell when a GC is lying to you....


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## Steve Burnett (May 28, 2012)

If contractors look to see if your mouth is moving, to be able to tell whether not you're lying to them,

you might be a G.C.

#dirtbagbuilders




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## Steve Burnett (May 28, 2012)

Gough said:


> Steve, the post would have been a lot more helpful...if you'd made it TWO MONTHS AGO!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



We can all sign the Schmidt agreement: 

"I so solemnly swear to never work for another low life, lying, cheating, god-complex, dirt bag builder, G.C. again. If I do you can take my wallet and kick me in the nuts. "




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## Steve Burnett (May 28, 2012)

See what you started, Paul. 😉


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Top ten lies we've been told by GC's, along with the translation:

10. "It'll be all one color". But 5 different products...and the accent walls...and the lids.

9. "Price is no object." As long as it's the lowest one.

8. "If you can give me a good price on this, I'll be sending a ton more work your way." As long at you keep that same price.

7. "Let us see your pricing 'book', we want you to do all of our painting from now on." We're starting our own painting branch, but we don't have a clue about prices. (Fifteen years later and that one is still embarrassing).

6. "We can get you in sooner if we can borrow some of your space heaters." Which we will rent to the client.

5. "The house is 95% done, you can go ahead and get started." Every room is 95% done, there's at least one piece of trim missing in every one of them.

4. "This will be all cleaned up by Monday." As long as you're the one doing the clean up.

3. "Just go ahead and do it, I'll square it up with the client later." You're on your own, bucko.

2. "We'll keep everybody else out of your way." Except for the plumbers, the electricians, the tile setters, the carpet guy, and the blind installers. It's going to all a$$holes and elbows in here when you're trying to finish the trim.

1. "I'll be able to pay you Tuesday." Just not on any specific Tuesday...and probably not one this month.


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## JPiacentino (Jun 14, 2014)

woodcoyote said:


> Just curious, and I'm sure this will open a can of worms, but.......are the GC's (residential) really that bad on the east coast?
> 
> I've never seen anyone talk highly about them here on paint talk, which makes me think....are they all that bad? 7 out 10? 9 out of 10 are?
> 
> Just curious.


You should meet some from jersey. I once worked for a guy in Atlantic City who pulled random people off the street to hang and tape dw because he was behind schedule.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Steve Burnett said:


> If you have ever called our office saying how your "thinking you might give us a shot at bidding on one of your projects."
> 
> You might be a G.C.
> 
> ...


 Sad part is there are plenty who jump at the opportunity to get mugged. They think they are going places because of the volume.


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## Steve Burnett (May 28, 2012)

straight_lines said:


> Sad part is there are plenty who jump at the opportunity to get mugged. They think they are going places because of the volume.



Your absolutely right, Tommy. In fact when I started at 19 years old I was one of them. 

The first dirt bag builder stiffed me out of $4,646.00. Not that I have forgot that valuable lesson or anything. 😉

School of hard knocks. That was part off tuition and I'll never forget Greg the dirt bag builder who takes advantage of 19 year old rookie painting contractors. 



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## Delta Painting (Apr 27, 2010)

You mite be a GC if you put all your tools, scaffold and other assorted construction equipment against all the walls on the job...


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Steve Burnett said:


> See what you started, Paul. dde09 Sent from my iPhone using PaintTalk.com


Hey man , I just call it as I see it. ;-)


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## Boco (May 18, 2013)

You might be a GC if you keep turning the heat off to try and save money.


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## Steve Burnett (May 28, 2012)

If you see us rolling a wall and reach out and touch it to see if the wet wall is wet,

You might be a GC


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

My favorite two lines of all time:

"Uh huh, those built ins were in the blueprints..."

"We're gonna give you guys (painters) a month at the end with the house all to yourselves so you can do your thing and get it just right..."


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

Love this thread!! I admit it, I enjoy telling them company policy we don't work for GC, they all seen to get pissed at that,


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## capepainter (Mar 9, 2012)

This thread is great all true and have we all worked for the same dirtbags


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## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

We only do high end work our last painter sucked. 

Real meaning we stiffed our last painter and now need to stiff you. :no:

I know I owe you for the last project so just start another one for us and we will send you a check. :no:

I know we owe you $2590 in extras so we will give you 50 cents on the dollar:thumbsup:

Our last painter didn't charge for touch ups or for different colors in every room:whistling2:

We will keep you busy all winter but you gotta lower your price:thumbsup:


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

I know its friday afternoon at 5 pm but they just installed the wood trim in that closet I need it finished painted today.


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## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

I've had good luck with the couple of GC's we work with. Sorry to hear you guys have so much trouble.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

jacob33 said:


> I've had good luck with the couple of GC's we work with. Sorry to hear you guys have so much trouble.


Give them time. :yes:


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Dave Mac said:


> I know its friday afternoon at 5 pm but they just installed the wood trim in that closet I need it finished painted today.


The current GC, "We need those painted doors right away". He wouldn't say why, but he was adamant, so we got them ready on time. From the looks of them now, they wanted to get started scarring them up so they didn't have to want until the last minute. 

Knowing that was likely to happen, we left the masking on the glass ("rainfall" glass, heavy texture making it a delight to mask). The GC called to let us know that we'd forgotten to pull the mask, so he'd done that "for us". I'm not sure I can afford to have this bozo do us any more favors.


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## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

This must be a regional thing or maybe your talking huge GC but around here GC are not bad to work for. I do not know about huge commercial things since I really do not do that but as far as residential remodel and addition goes we got many good ones.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

It is entirely possible that JP will own that market nationally. If only we could clone him.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

jacob33 said:


> This must be a regional thing or maybe your talking huge GC but around here GC are not bad to work for. I do not know about huge commercial things since I really do not do that but as far as residential remodel and addition goes we got many good ones.


Remodel/addition GC's tend to be better than the NC GC's, IMO.

Most new home builders are very similar to politicians in that the main attributes are lying, cheating and stealing.

I would imagine some of the difference in opinion on this subject is due to age/experience differences of the posters. Like me......I'm old and cynical, but I've earned that cynicism through experience.

If you've got a good thing going with a GC, that's a good thing. But be watchful..........just friendly advice. :thumbsup:


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

jacob33 said:


> This must be a regional thing or maybe your talking huge GC but around here GC are not bad to work for. I do not know about huge commercial things since I really do not do that but as far as residential remodel and addition goes we got many good ones.


My B-I-L is a masonry contractor out of OKC. Based on his stories, I'm guessing you're working in another part of the state.


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## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

I'm out of Bartlesville much smaller town than OKC and I don't really do New Construction so that is probably the difference too.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

There were some years where that could be a good business to be in.

Those days are gone.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Im a good GC to work for.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Paradigmzz said:


> Im a good GC to work for.


Then you were probably a painter before you were a GC. :thumbup:


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

slinger58 said:


> Then you were probably a painter before you were a GC. :thumbup:


Im both!


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Paradigmzz said:


> Im both!


So I have gathered. That has to be a great position to be in.:yes:


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

vermontpainter said:


> There were some years where that could be a good business to be in.
> 
> Those days are gone.





slinger58 said:


> Then you were probably a painter before you were a GC. :thumbup:


The three great GCs/builders that we've worked for were all "mustangs"', guys who started in the trades pounding nails, pouring slabs, etc. The worst group have all been "paper contractors", men and women without the field experience.

I think that has a major impact in their approach to the job.


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## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

Here are mine:

If someone calls you a conniving snake and you take it as a compliment... you might be a GC.

If you see a beautiful building and think to yourself, "I'd like to go to another state and build something like that."... you might be a GC.

If you see somebody tip their waiter at a restaurant and think, "What a sucker."... you might be a GC.

If your wife refuses to answer the phone if she doesn't recognize the number... you might be a GC.



:cowboy:


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Gough said:


> The three great GCs/builders that we've worked for were all "mustangs"', guys who started in the trades pounding nails, pouring slabs, etc. The worst group have all been "paper contractors", men and women without the field experience.
> 
> I think that has a major impact in their approach to the job.


I used to call them "cell phone contractors". They were always the first ones' to have a mobile phone. 

Absolutely, the best GC's are those who have pounded nails, slung mud or paint or some other facet of this business. 

But, given time, even those can forget.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

slinger58 said:


> I used to call them "cell phone contractors". They were always the first ones' to have a mobile phone.
> 
> Absolutely, the best GC's are those who have pounded nails, slung mud or paint or some other facet of this business.
> 
> But, given time, even those can forget.


"Cell phone contractor", I like that. There was one around here that I can't even picture without a cell phone to his ear. I don't imagine he spends as much time on one since he went to prison for defrauding clients.

Just the thought of that makes me smile.


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## phillyholiday (Jun 5, 2014)

General Con-tractors...You might be a GC if you drive a white company truck with lumber rack but there has never been anything in the bed or on the rack. That being said, we have a solid GC that we work with doing their high-end remodels. They like to beat us down a little on the price but they pay on time, schedule well, give their subs time to finish, and run a clean job site. However, we just ended a relationship with a GC after he had my boss and I over to give him an estimate on some work at his home. Boss comes up with gift of a price (literally about $250 above his cost) because we were booked to do a $34,000 NC job for him the same month. Long story short he made it clear he was not going to pay my boss to do the work on his house and wanted us to figure out how we could bill the homeowner of the job he was running for the work at his private house.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

phillyholiday said:


> General Con-tractors...You might be a GC if you drive a white company truck with lumber rack but there has never been anything in the bed or on the rack. That being said, we have a solid GC that we work with doing their high-end remodels. They like to beat us down a little on the price but they pay on time, schedule well, give their subs time to finish, and run a clean job site. However, we just ended a relationship with a GC after he had my boss and I over to give him an estimate on some work at his home. Boss comes up with gift of a price (literally about $250 above his cost) because we were booked to do a $34,000 NC job for him the same month. Long story short he made it clear he was not going to pay my boss to do the work on his house and wanted us to figure out how we could bill the homeowner of the job he was running for the work at his private house.


Remember you heard it here first: "Give 'em time".


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Paradigmzz said:


> Im a good GC to work for.


That's what they all say.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Best solution for all is just don't work for any of them. I don't.


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## The 3rd Coat (Aug 17, 2013)

Yeah, for a painter, it's very easy to find work without middlemen. Even those NC houses will need repainting eventually.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

The 3rd Coat said:


> Yeah, for a painter, it's very easy to find work without middlemen. Even those NC houses will need repainting eventually.


In our experience, a lot of the new houses need to get painted sooner, rather than later. Often as soon as the HO realizes that the "builders' flat" washes right off. That's just one of the perils of going with the guy at $1.10/ ft^2 of floor space. That, and the fact that he used the same paint on the trim.


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## Monstertruck (Oct 26, 2013)

If you think 1 coat of primer and 1 coat of paint is what most customers expect from a 2 coat price for painting, you might be a dirt bag GC.

If your painters get paint and caulk all over the new floor while cutting in base but then you whine about the cost to clean up the mess and do it right, you might be a GC.

If you have your lead carpenter prime the drywall in the basement on a rain day using only a flashlight and then whine because all the walls need to be sanded and skimmed, you might be a dirt bag GC.

'We left a 2' perimeter around each room for you guys to paint the walls, that's plenty, right?'

'You can just patch, prime and paint the marriage seam on the ceiling and it'll blend in just fine in the open kitchen, dining, living space.'

'Just go ahead and bill me, it won't be much, right?'

'We've got plenty more work for you, but you'll have to lower your price quite a bit. Are you happy with our work? Yeah, it looks fantastic. All the other trades commented on how clean you keep the spaces. Our painters are a joke compared to your team. I wish we'd have had you do the whole thing from the start. It sure would have saved us a ton of money. Then why on earth would you ask me to lower my price?' GC dirt bag walks away.

Good riddance.


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## Steve Burnett (May 28, 2012)

If you have ever said, "don't worry, you can make it up on the next one"

You might be a GC

#dirtbagbuilder


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## Steve Burnett (May 28, 2012)

jacob33 said:


> I've had good luck with the couple of GC's we work with. Sorry to hear you guys have so much trouble.



You should play the lotto, tonight!


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## The 3rd Coat (Aug 17, 2013)

Monstertruck said:


> If you think 1 coat of primer and 1 coat of paint is what most customers expect from a 2 coat price for painting, you might be a dirt bag GC.


That's actually the better option.
Around here the word is that it's normal practice to use 2 coats of ceiling flat without any primer/undercoat on new drywall ceilings. Because it hides well enough When it comes to painting, builders only care about looks, never about durability. They're selling an illusion.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

So far I have had some good GC's. Ive only had one i had a issue with....... knock on wood.


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## Monstertruck (Oct 26, 2013)

The 3rd Coat said:


> That's actually the better option.
> Around here the word is that it's normal practice to use 2 coats of ceiling flat without any primer/undercoat on new drywall ceilings. Because it hides well enough When it comes to painting,* builders only care about looks, never about durability. They're selling an illusion*.


 I guess that's why I don't get along well with 'builders'.:thumbsup:


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## Steve Burnett (May 28, 2012)

Monstertruck said:


> I guess that's why I don't get along well with 'builders'.:thumbsup:



If you don't get along with your subs, or they all just flat out hate you,

...you might be a dirt bag builder.


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## Spock (Jun 29, 2014)

Steve Burnett said:


> If you think the painter should return multiple times to "touch up", and you think recoating all of the walls... AGAIN is touch up...
> 
> You might be a G.C.
> 
> #dirtbagbuilders


I tell my customers that there is no such thing as a touch-up on a wall. The higher end paints we use does not touch up well on drywall. If I was doing NC I'd
wait until all of the trades are out to do the last coat on the walls. That way no touchups.


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

If you yell at the painter the second he walks thru the door and threaten to call 911 cuse there not wearing hard hats....

needless to say I called him an ass#$le and told him to call his boss and tell him how he's acting or I will.....


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

richmondpainting said:


> If you yell at the painter the second he walks thru the door and threaten to call 911 cuse there not wearing hard hats....
> 
> needless to say I called him an ass#$le and told him to call his boss and tell him how he's acting or I will.....


Yes, some people are just dicks in the way they communicate. But buy hard hats for the crew. Some construction jobs require it and it's not really all that big of a deal.


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Yes, some people are just dicks in the way they communicate. But buy hard hats for the crew. Some construction jobs require it and it's not really all that big of a deal.


That guy gives up problems every time..I'm not sure how most of you work but for us hard hats are rare on commercial jobs....but we tend to work off hours when no one is there....and weekends are always like an exception. ..like a freebie day of no hard hats...walmarts ect. Are a little more strict


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

Carrying a hard hat is not a big deal.
Working off hours is. Lol


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

richmondpainting said:


> That guy gives up problems every time..I'm not sure how most of you work but for us hard hats are rare on commercial jobs....but we tend to work off hours when no one is there....and weekends are always like an exception. ..like a freebie day of no hard hats...walmarts ect. Are a little more strict


I also know a painting contractor that has a divergence of opinion concerning hard hats, and I don't get it. I work in an environment where hard hats are not only recommended in many cases, but also required. If you've ever worked on scaffolding, you'd understand the safety benefits of over head protection. Safety vests are also highly recommended in traffic areas.

Bottom line for me, hard hats and other common safety gear not only has a practical purpose, but really identifies someone as a professional in the construction trade. IMO. There are times when I'll don the gear even when I don't have to, just to put me in a frame of mind I may not be in otherwise.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

richmondpainting said:


> That guy gives up problems every time..I'm not sure how most of you work but for us hard hats are rare on commercial jobs....but we tend to work off hours when no one is there....and weekends are always like an exception. ..like a freebie day of no hard hats...walmarts ect. Are a little more strict


All my commercial work requires safety boots, hard hats, and safety vests 24/7


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

CApainter said:


> I also know a painting contractor that has a divergence of opinion concerning hard hats, and I don't get it. I work in an environment where hard hats are not only recommended in many cases, but also required. If you've ever worked on scaffolding, you'd understand the safety benefits of over head protection. Safety vests are also highly recommended in traffic areas.
> 
> Bottom line for me, hard hats and other common safety gear not only has a practical purpose, but really identifies someone as a professional in the construction trade. IMO. There are times when I'll don the gear even when I don't have to, just to put me in a frame of mind I may not be in otherwise.


Things are a bit different for us.....Not to mention I hit my head bout 10 times more when I do where a hard hat...lol...


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## Boco (May 18, 2013)

CApainter said:


> I also know a painting contractor that has a divergence of opinion concerning hard hats, and I don't get it. I work in an environment where hard hats are not only recommended in many cases, but also required. If you've ever worked on scaffolding, you'd understand the safety benefits of over head protection. Safety vests are also highly recommended in traffic areas.
> 
> Bottom line for me, hard hats and other common safety gear not only has a practical purpose, but really identifies someone as a professional in the construction trade. IMO. There are times when I'll don the gear even when I don't have to, just to put me in a frame of mind I may not be in otherwise.


 You must be the guy who wears his hard hat at lunch and in the truck. Screw hard hats unless there are hazards above your head. Common sense applies here.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Boco said:


> You must be the guy who wears his hard hat at lunch and in the truck. Screw hard hats unless there are hazards above your head. Common sense applies here.


Either that or he likes going home alive and healthy every day.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Boco said:


> You must be the guy who wears his hard hat at lunch and in the truck. Screw hard hats unless there are hazards above your head. Common sense applies here.


I have driven around with my hard on because I forgot to take it off. But job site decorum reminded me to take it off before I came off as a real tool.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

CApainter said:


> I have driven around with my hard on because I forgot to take it off. But job site decorum reminded me to take it off before I came off as a real tool.


Don't know if that's what you meant to post, but it's a keeper!


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

slinger58 said:


> Don't know if that's what you meant to post, but it's a keeper!


I don't mean to post any of this stuff. But thanks!


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

CApainter said:


> I have driven around with my hard on because I forgot to take it off. But job site decorum reminded me to take it off before I came off as a real tool.


Did you reread it closely?:blink:


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

slinger58 said:


> Did you reread it closely?:blink:


LOL! Too F'in funny!:notworthy: For the record, that was not intentional. Thanks for QUOTING it for PT posterity. LOL!


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

CApainter said:


> LOL! Too F'in funny!:notworthy: For the record, that was not intentional. Thanks for QUOTING it for PT posterity. LOL!


Hey, we're in the preservation business! :thumbup:


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## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

richmondpainting said:


> Things are a bit different for us.....Not to mention I hit my head bout 10 times more when I do where a hard hat...lol...


 Thanks for that... AND I'm a hazard when wearing steel toed boots. I never fall from a ladder wearing my sneakers but I'm scared to death wearing those boots. I feel like Herman Munster.




:cowboy:


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## Toolnut (Nov 23, 2012)

It's been years but I actually had 2 guys get hurt because of the hard hats. Not being used to wearing them 1 bent over a little and the hat started to fall off when he went to grab it he hit his head on the edge of a machine and split it open. If I remember right the other guy was on a plank and again not being used to them when it started to fall he grabbed and stepped off the plank, hurt his knee.

I used to work in a steel mill where you had to wear 1 every day after about a week you were so used to it you didn't think about it. But put 1 on someone who has never worn one and watch how many times they grab for it. So sometimes safety can be hazardous.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

This thread has digressed to hard on's and tools. 

Welcome to Paint Talk!


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## BuckeyePainter (Feb 14, 2014)

If you decide to put in new floors and carpet BEFORE sanding drywall and painting

You might be a G.C.
(At least in my experience) :banghead:


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## Painter-Aaron (Jan 17, 2013)

If you rip apart the kitchen and then go to Europe for three weeks on a Reno. 

If you do the drywall yourself, do a horrible job taping it, and get the cabinets that touch the ceiling installed before any sanding or sealing is done. 

If when you have to go fix the horrible drywall job you smear the mud with what looked like your hands 

If when confronted about how poorly managed the job was, you tell them that it wasn't up to you the order things got done 


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

BuckeyePainter said:


> If you decide to put in new floors and carpet BEFORE sanding drywall and painting
> 
> You might be a G.C.
> (At least in my experience) :banghead:


Drywall, yes; carpet, not so much, IMHO.

Had too many floor guys trash our work. We just started waiting until they were done.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I agree. I would much rather be responsible for protecting the floors than spend two days fixing what the floor guys will damage.


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## MSJ Painting (Jan 27, 2013)

Gough said:


> Drywall, yes; carpet, not so much, IMHO.
> 
> Had too many floor guys trash our work. We just started waiting until they were done.


I agree...I would like to be able to prime new drywall and paint ceilings...maybe even spray trim and doors before flooring comes in, but I would seriously like to be the LAST trade in before final completion. I can protect floors, and would rather not come back for unnecessary touch ups due to filthy hands, etc.

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## Steve Burnett (May 28, 2012)

straight_lines said:


> This thread has digressed to hard on's and tools.
> 
> Welcome to Paint Talk!



Whoa fellas, only GC digress! Let's the keep this focus healthy by calling out GC's for why they are, Dirt Bag Builders! 

Who knows, If we get enough "You might be a GC" we could take this on the road. Maybe open for Foxworthy? 


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

If you can't pay the painter his final draw on the house he just finished until he primes the next house (supposedly so you can get a draw from the bank on that one), you might be a GC........that I'm glad I don't work for anymore.


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## Paint Pro CA (Jun 17, 2014)

….if you keep forgetting to bring the painters check. 
….if you expect the painters to do the sanding of the tapers final coat without extra pay. 
….if you hold the painters up because the trim that was supposed to be there last week hasn't been picked up yet.
….if you fail to pay the painters their final check on time and then go on vacation for a month. 

That being said I have worked for a few scumbag late payers and guys who push it with an endlessly growing list of BS little add on's but also have worked for and continue to do work for a few really solid GC's. Luck of the draw I guess.


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

If you call up the painter, tell them the info for a full exterior paint job at a house where you just did a small repair, then right before hanging up say "Make sure you add 10-15% for my cut" because you think we should have to give you our profit or risk losing the job for being to high....

You might be a G.C.



On a side note, I wonder what ContractorTalk is going to think when this thread gets put in next months newsletter.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Hines Painting said:


> If you call up the painter, tell them the info for a full exterior paint job at a house where you just did a small repair, then right before hanging up say "Make sure you add 10-15% for my cut" because you think we should have to give you our profit or risk losing the job for being to high....
> 
> You might be a G.C.
> 
> ...


Only 10-15%??? You got one of the good ones. The last GC who tried to pull that wanted 30% just for giving me the prospect's phone number.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I don't get the chance to work with too many GC's


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## Delta Painting (Apr 27, 2010)

You mite be a GC if this is the scope of work you send have no idea whats behind the paneling...


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## Steve Burnett (May 28, 2012)

CApainter said:


> I don't get the chance to work with too many GC's



Don't start now. 


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## Steve Burnett (May 28, 2012)

Hines Painting said:


> On a side note, I wonder what ContractorTalk is going to think when this thread gets put in next months newsletter.



Maybe rename "ContractorTalk" to ...



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## Paint Pro CA (Jun 17, 2014)

You might be a GC if you insist on having your helper do the drywall priming to save money and then when the painters show up there are drips, lines, sags and holidays all over the place. 

You might be a GC if a painter quotes you on spraying a bunch of built ins and shelves and then when the painters are done spraying and have taken the sprayer to another job site you suddenly show up with 20 more shelves, last minute cabinet doors and extra trim and expect the painter to do them as part of the original price. 

You might be a GC if your trim guys bang up 5 freshly painted walls installing the shoe mold on the baseboard. Then you expect the painter to patch and prime and then re-roll the walls including a 30 foot wall as part of the painting jobs "touch ups" at no extra cost. 

Happened this week. First and last job for this GC.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

^ I thought that was SOP for all builders. Its like they intentionally see how many times they can make the painter repaint something. 3...4...5..6? They don't care about it until they add up the change orders and add them to the cost to paint the house. 

Suddenly the painter is charging us way to much and his prices are in left field.


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## Paint Pro CA (Jun 17, 2014)

straight_lines said:


> ^ I thought that was SOP for all builders. Its like they intentionally see how many times they can make the painter repaint something. 3...4...5..6? They don't care about it until they add up the change orders and add them to the cost to paint the house.
> 
> Suddenly the painter is charging us way to much and his prices are in left field.


Its definitely a crap shoot with GC's. Some good ones, many dodgy ones. The dodgy ones are usually the ones promising you tons of work before you have even opened a paint bucket on the first job.


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## Delta Painting (Apr 27, 2010)

You mite be a GC if you send out emails like this:...

Subject :Exterior painting
Your message :I am getting prices to possible hire someone to paint some exterior buildings in the Lansing area. I do not have the time and this would be a sub contract situation.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

You might be a GC if you walk up to another painter while your current Painting crew is on site asking 'new' painter for his card.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

You might make a good GC if you are good at networking, have great trade relationships and pay your subs what they are worth and price the job out of the customers pocketbook, not by taking advantage of the trades that have made you who you are. 

You may be a good subcontractor if you recognize the role of a good GC and thank your lucky stars you dont have to chase all your jobs to keep all your crews busy.

You may be a good contractor if you recognize the necessity to not throw all your eggs in one basket.


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## Steve Burnett (May 28, 2012)

You might be a GC,

If you call my office to say your "thinking about giving us a shot," and we refer you to your local wall-mart to purchase a kite...


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## Monstertruck (Oct 26, 2013)

Steve Burnett said:


> You might be a GC,
> 
> If you call my office to say your "thinking about giving us a shot," and we refer you to your local wall-mart to purchase a kite...
> 
> ...


.... or just tell 'em that you're trembling at the honor of even being considered and seriously doubt you could do work worthy of their great craftsmanship but you'll give it a shot just as soon as you get time.


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## ligboozer (Oct 13, 2009)

....if you preface every sentence with "It's only a little" or "Since you'll already be there".


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

ligboozer said:


> ....if you preface every sentence with "It's only a little" or "Since you'll already be there".


Or...."it's in the plans and specs" I wanna slap the superintendents every time I hear that phrase....


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

richmondpainting said:


> Or...."it's in the plans and specs" I wanna slap the superintendents every time I hear that phrase....


If it isn't, fair enough.

If it is...well...what did you bid on?


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## oldccm (Jan 23, 2013)

richmondpainting said:


> Or...."it's in the plans and specs" I wanna slap the superintendents every time I hear that phrase....



GC 'How did you possibly miss that change order? It was in Mondays revised plan?'

Me 'Im not sure, let me check those emails. You're right, I did miss it. That new wall color was clearly written on the blueprint labelled change order for lighting and electrical'.


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

Gough said:


> If it isn't, fair enough.
> 
> If it is...well...what did you bid on?


My issue is they use them when it works in there favor....and don't care when it works better for us.....

Products are my big issue....

One gc doesn't care if you use cheapest of the cheap....get it done...make it look good...

I get use to it....the the next guy reads the specs like a pastor reading the Bible and critiques your every move...

Yes every project is different but we're professionals. ..just let us do our job...

I see I have two jobs....

1. Make it look good and get it to pass..

2. Make sure it doesn't fail..

You can talk about specs all day....those two are all I care about.....I'm sure some will agree and disagree but I don't care....


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## oldccm (Jan 23, 2013)

richmondpainting said:


> My issue is they use them when it works in there favor....and don't care when it works better for us.....
> 
> Products are my big issue....
> 
> ...





I vividly remember bidding on a 45,000 sq/ft government building. Spec said Aura, I didn't get the job. Couple years later I did a small project in that building. I wanted to use the same paint so I checked the storage room. Wouldn't you know Glidden Ultra is an acceptable substitute for Aura


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

oldccm said:


> I vividly remember bidding on a 45,000 sq/ft government building. Spec said Aura, I didn't get the job. Couple years later I did a small project in that building. I wanted to use the same paint so I checked the storage room. Wouldn't you know Glidden Ultra is an acceptable substitute for Aura


As is pro mar 200 for duration....i believe...but ghee will still say it needs to be approved by the owner...which is crap


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

richmondpainting said:


> Or...."it's in the plans and specs" I wanna slap the superintendents every time I hear that phrase....


" I can't find it. Show me where it is"
I say it often. To job superintendents. If it is on that print I owe it. If it is not. I don't.
Simple.


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

richmondpainting said:


> Or...."it's in the plans and specs" I wanna slap the superintendents every time I hear that phrase....


This one I love! I pride myself on memorizing the plans n specs front to back and when the supt claims its "in the book" I tell em to get bent.

This job im just finishing... 185 decks and 3 hardie board surround walls around each deck. Siding guys didnt caulk anything, they told the supt its the painters job. So supt tells me to bring my caulk gun. I tell em get bent and read the spec book. Sure nuff, siders had to go back like 90 decks or so an start caulkin n painting


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

bryceraisanen said:


> This one I love! I pride myself on memorizing the plans n specs front to back and when the supt claims its "in the book" I tell em to get bent. This job im just finishing... 185 decks and 3 hardie board surround walls around each deck. Siding guys didnt caulk anything, they told the supt its the painters job. So supt tells me to bring my caulk gun. I tell em get bent and read the spec book. Sure nuff, siders had to go back like 90 decks or so an start caulkin n painting


Everybody tries to not do something that they owe. Seems like they just aren't happy unless they steal something. Caulking I find a lot of times is overlooked altogether. On specs. They always try and put it on the painter. They get away with it enuff that it is worth trying I gotta think.

A couple times on this site I have seen guys asking advice on how or what to use to caulk this and that. Or patch this and that. And it was stuff they didn't even paint! I still don't think they owe it. But they seem to be doing it so WTF the other trades and the GC's will let them.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

bryceraisanen said:


> This one I love! I pride myself on memorizing the plans n specs front to back and when the supt claims its "in the book" I tell em to get bent.


Exactly.

OTOH, I've got no sympathy for the sub who whines about stuff that *is* in the book. They'll figure they can cut some corners and land the job...then p!$$ and moan when they get caught out.


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

bryceraisanen said:


> This one I love! I pride myself on memorizing the plans n specs front to back and when the supt claims its "in the book" I tell em to get bent.
> 
> This job im just finishing... 185 decks and 3 hardie board surround walls around each deck. Siding guys didnt caulk anything, they told the supt its the painters job. So supt tells me to bring my caulk gun. I tell em get bent and read the spec book. Sure nuff, siders had to go back like 90 decks or so an start caulkin n painting


I do everything the same.....if it seems out of the ordinary. ..I'll call my estimator and he will find out.

I wish I had time to read the prints like that....but with managing 17 guys....doing residential bids...actually working on some road jobs and locally...meeting..walk throughs...it's hard to read things to the point I'd like....

I don't even print the prints....i wait till I'm onsite.....come with primer and pumps and look while my guys start.....

Unless it larger quantities


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## Monstertruck (Oct 26, 2013)

bryceraisanen said:


> This one I love! I pride myself on memorizing the plans n specs front to back and when the supt claims its "in the book" I tell em to get bent.
> 
> This job im just finishing... 185 decks and 3 hardie board surround walls around each deck. Siding guys didnt caulk anything, they told the supt its the painters job. So supt tells me to bring my caulk gun. I* tell em get bent and read the spec book. Sure nuff, siders had to go back* like 90 decks or so an start caulkin n painting


BOOM! Suck it!


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

richmondpainting said:


> I do everything the same.....if it seems out of the ordinary. ..I'll call my estimator and he will find out. I wish I had time to read the prints like that....but with managing 17 guys....doing residential bids...actually working on some road jobs and locally...meeting..walk throughs...it's hard to read things to the point I'd like.... I don't even print the prints....i wait till I'm onsite.....come with primer and pumps and look while my guys start..... Unless it larger quantities


You need to have guys that can and let em run the job for you. These owners/mgrs that insist on running jobs from their truck are oblivious to how much time they cause to be wasted. I see it. They don't.


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## Monstertruck (Oct 26, 2013)

Oden said:


> You need to have guys that can and let em run the job for you. These owners/mgrs that insist on running jobs from their truck are oblivious to how much time they cause to be wasted. I see it. They don't.


You're pretty GD smart, arentchya?


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

Oden said:


> You need to have guys that can and let em run the job for you. These owners/mgrs that insist on running jobs from their truck are oblivious to how much time they cause to be wasted. I see it. They don't.


Problem is some need hands held....

Example last weekend..we sprayed 35k sq ft of dry fall....got it done in two days.....15 hour days.....if i wasn't on site pushing...it would have been three days....hints more hotels....more perdium....more set up..more clean up...alot of inefficiency

They would come in late....leave early...they judge the days by hours....i set goals and if we get it done....i push Hardee to get the next task done....they wont....Not bad employees. ...they just need me on site...


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

richmondpainting said:


> Problem is some need hands held....
> 
> Example last weekend..we sprayed 35k sq ft of dry fall....got it done in two days.....15 hour days.....if i wasn't on site pushing...it would have been three days....hints more hotels....more perdium....more set up..more clean up...alot of inefficiency
> 
> They would come in late....leave early...they judge the days by hours....i set goals and if we get it done....i push Hardee to get the next task done....they wont....Not bad employees. ...they just need me on site...


lol 
No wonder they screw you every chance they get


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

richmondpainting said:


> Problem is some need hands held.... Example last weekend..we sprayed 35k sq ft of dry fall....got it done in two days.....15 hour days.....if i wasn't on site pushing...it would have been three days....hints more hotels....more perdium....more set up..more clean up...alot of inefficiency They would come in late....leave early...they judge the days by hours....i set goals and if we get it done....i push Hardee to get the next task done....they wont....Not bad employees. ...they just need me on site...


How many guys?
How many pumps?
What kind of a deck? 
What kind of prep? Covering?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

I have often said that managing painters is a weakness for many contractors. Glad to see some success happening here in the dept.


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

Oden said:


> How many guys?
> How many pumps?
> What kind of a deck?
> What kind of prep? Covering?


3 guys....
2 pumps
Normal exposed deck
Lots of moving...sweeping...

we had to uncover the sprinkler heads but they were covered when we got there

We didn't cover much..

1 ground guy


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> I have often said that managing painters is a weakness for many contractors. Glad to see some success happening here in the dept.


One of the many things I could do much better than I do.


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## Monstertruck (Oct 26, 2013)

vermontpainter said:


> I have often said that *managing painters* is a weakness for many contractors. Glad to see some success happening here in the dept.


It's certainly a hat I struggle to wear at times.


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## Toolnut (Nov 23, 2012)

richmondpainting said:


> Problem is some need hands held....
> 
> Example last weekend..we sprayed 35k sq ft of dry fall....got it done in two days.....15 hour days.....if i wasn't on site pushing...it would have been three days....hints more hotels....more perdium....more set up..more clean up...alot of inefficiency
> 
> They would come in late....leave early...they judge the days by hours....i set goals and if we get it done....i push Hardee to get the next task done....they wont....Not bad employees. ...they just need me on site...


No, problem is you need to play boss. You sit your the people down that you want to be in charge, tell what you expect, and if they can't produce you find new people. Then you find qualified people, emphasis on qualified, then you do it again. You also need to compensate these lead painters so they have an incentive to do a good job.


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## ligboozer (Oct 13, 2009)

oldccm said:


> GC 'How did you possibly miss that change order? It was in Mondays revised plan?'
> 
> Me 'Im not sure, let me check those emails. You're right, I did miss it. That new wall color was clearly written on the blueprint labelled change order for lighting and electrical'.


In my bids I have wording stating that all prices are based on plans dated "xyz" and any changes, alterations or deviations are at additional cost.

Saved my bacon a few times.


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## two fingers (Sep 28, 2014)

Go is god, they ignore your call, but God forbid you miss there call

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## two fingers (Sep 28, 2014)

*GC

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## capn26 (Aug 17, 2014)

Wildbill7145 said:


> I have one GC who I can honestly say if I had to work for someone every day all day long, he's the one I'd work for. Sometimes he does things out of order a bit, but he's incredibly coooperative and demands this of all the trades. Never questions my concerns or suggestions. Always pays on time. Always brings coffee!
> 
> I don't think this is the norm though.
> 
> Edit: I should also add that he's quite involved in the entire process doing a good chunk of the fine trimwork, tile work, etc. himself. Absolutely not afraid to get his hands dirty.






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## capn26 (Aug 17, 2014)

Have no idea how I quoted that.... Not technologically inclined. But anyway, my dads a GC. A very good one. His subs get VERY upset if someone else even bids. Pays on time, gives each trade their space.... And he told me that I'd lose my a$$ doing NC. That told me all I needed to know. 


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