# qd acrylics - metal



## djensen9367 (May 18, 2011)

Not sure if I am in the right spot here but here is the question.
I paint garbage compactors (on-site) at malls Nationwide. Been doing this for almost 20 yrs. Been using Sherwin Williams QD alkyd with no problems. It gets a little touchier every year to spray high VOC paints in all the states.

Question: Has anyone used a quick dry waterborne High Gloss finish on containers or metal before. It need to be dry to touch in 10-30 minutes and stick to previous oil coatings. I have read good and bad about devflex qd but nothing that relates directly to my application.

Appreciate any help you can give or is there another forum that might have more info on these products.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

Welcome to the forum. You are in the right place, we have a few members here that can answer that, might take a day or two though.


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

Have you tried a DTM type paint? Not sure if it would adhere well to an oil though.


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## djensen9367 (May 18, 2011)

i am familiar with different products but have not tried any for my application, I am really looking for info from painters who have actually used a quick dry waterborne over previously painted metal.
Thanks for the suggeston


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Acrylic DTM like any other waterborne takes up to 14 days to cure into full hardness. This is a good question, and I would love to know of a great low voc paint that could return to service quickly for this type of application as well.


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## generalpaint (Dec 15, 2010)

*qd waterborne*

Try to look into kem aqua line of products- keep in mind they are kind of thin but since you are used to qd oil that doesnt appear to be an issue. Painting them in place could be in DTM type products but you do have that curing issue, however, I wouldnt quite understand why that would matter with painting them in place.

Kem Aqua waterborne looks like a good product, however, you would be limited as most stores will not stock this.


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## djensen9367 (May 18, 2011)

i have looked at the kem aqua 280 and the kem aqua gloss enamel, the specs look good but i have not sprayed any yet. do you have experience with this on metal surfaces? especially previously painted with oil


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## generalpaint (Dec 15, 2010)

*kem aqua*

We used to sell this product to BFI waste before someone starting selling them a cheaper product- it worked surprisingly good as they paint them in there shop but didnt do hardly any prep work to them and it sprayed fine- keep in mind this was a package blue color but it sprayed great- we had even sold them before for doors on hotels that needed something to dry hard and quick

As far as it going over oil paint- I think if you found a way to dull the sheen you would be fine - if you are talking about f77 series of quick dry that you are using now I would imagine it loses its sheen fairly quick depending on the color you have used. I wouldnt think it would be that big of a deal going over it-


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## djensen9367 (May 18, 2011)

we have been using f77 and a similiar product prior to that. these usually get painted every 4-5 yrs so they are pretty weathered plus we run a wire wheel over the units to remove loose paint etc. 

the kem aqua gloss enamel looks like the best specs for what we do. quick dry is important as it helps reduce overspray problems a lot and puts the unit back in service right away (we resticker them upon completion)

how will this hold up compared to the f77??

i have been shooting oil in all 48 states for years (including calif) but i can see the end coming and i might have a new account coming on board that might require it for liability reasons (calif based company)


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

try SW Hydrogloss is a single component urethane dries in about 15 minutes


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## djensen9367 (May 18, 2011)

looking at the spec sheet it appears to dry a little slower than the kem aqua gloss enamel,, but will check into it more
thanks for the info


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

No problem I'm here to help


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## optimal (Feb 5, 2010)

We use kem aqua 280p all the time. The product is only available in a few stores that are able to tint the product. The voc are just as harsh as an oil based enamel. It is a great product and will have no problem with recoats as long as the surface has been cleaned. The product dries fast but no where as quick as a quick dry enamel or chemical coatings which we use all the time as well.

The devflex quick dry is another good product but I had issues with coverage. The products voc seem to be low when we spray and dries a tad quicker then kem280p.


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## djensen9367 (May 18, 2011)

thanks for the reply - i have been looking at the sherwin williams qd
http://www.paintdocs.com/webmsds/webPDF.jsp?SITEID=STORECAT&lang=E&doctype=PDS&prodno=501003354

it has a quicker dry time but i have not tried it yet. what type of real world dry times are you seeing with the kem aqua??

dry time is critical as i spray at the malls and the compactors need to get back into service right away - i am also looking at having to spray balers in a warehouse environment (definitely no oil)


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## djensen9367 (May 18, 2011)

sorry, the link i attached is what i am using, here is what i am looking at:

http://www.paintdocs.com/webmsds/webPDF.jsp?SITEID=STORECAT&lang=E&doctype=PDS&prodno=F77B551
we spray with a kremlin air spray so can shoot without thinning and very little overspray ( like a super hvlp)


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## optimal (Feb 5, 2010)

Those dry times on the spec sheets for the quick dry enamel are right on. When we shoot this product out of a hvlp the air flow needs to be tuned down so the overspray does not turn to dust before it hits the units.

A nice coat of kem 280p will take 30min until you can put your sticker on, same with devflex.


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## djensen9367 (May 18, 2011)

that sounds like it would work perfect, the specs on the high gloss are a little better but it is hard to tell until i spray it (i will talk to my sw rep). 

my biggest problem would be getting the customer to ok waterborne, they really like the qd enamel. they might not have a choice in the future but for now it is like pulling teeth :no:

http://www.onsite-compactorpainting.com


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Here's another option for you http://www.ppg.com/coatings/pmc/hpc/keyproducts/Documents/PittTech%20Plus%209-07.pdf


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## djensen9367 (May 18, 2011)

I checked the specs and it looks pretty good, my biggest concern is they strongly recommend two coats for maximum protection which doesn't work for my application, will do more research on this.

have you applied this yourself? are the dry times accurate and have you found it is ok with one coat?

http://www.onsite-compactorpainting.com


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

djensen9367 said:


> I checked the specs and it looks pretty good, my biggest concern is they strongly recommend two coats for maximum protection which doesn't work for my application, will do more research on this.
> 
> have you applied this yourself? are the dry times accurate and have you found it is ok with one coat?
> 
> http://www.onsite-compactorpainting.com


The recommended WFT is 5 to 7.5 mils for one coat in order to get a DFT of 2 to 3 mils. I didn't see where the spec sheet recommended a two coat application. Are you reading another spec sheet?

I have used this material and have found that it retains it's color and gloss while providing a pretty durable finish. It is not an epoxy by any means, but for a maintenance coating, it's pretty user friendly.


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## djensen9367 (May 18, 2011)

http://www.coatingswest.com/docs/90-1310.pdf
Under limitations of use, it says two coats if used as a finish coat (sounds strange to me also).

Looks good other than the above. What is an approximate cost (all i saw on the internet was about 68.00 gal - little spendy) and how do you feel it holds color and gloss compared to sw f77 quick dry? We are only talking garbage compactors so a good maintenance coating is fine. I really appreciate you guys who have used a product responding as you are, it is sometimes hard to rely on a sales rep for answers.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

djensen9367 said:


> http://www.coatingswest.com/docs/90-1310.pdf
> Under limitations of use, it says two coats if used as a finish coat (sounds strange to me also).
> 
> Looks good other than the above. What is an approximate cost (all i saw on the internet was about 68.00 gal - little spendy) and how do you feel it holds color and gloss compared to sw f77 quick dry? We are only talking garbage compactors so a good maintenance coating is fine. I really appreciate you guys who have used a product responding as you are, it is sometimes hard to rely on a sales rep for answers.


Good point on the two coat requirement in the Limitation section. It is around that sixty dollar range in my area also. Finish appears to be good and adhesion is also good, in my experience,

I'll throw another one at you http://www.paintdocs.com/webmsds/webPDF.jsp?SITEID=STORECAT&doctype=PDS&lang=E&prodno=B71W211

I haven't used this product, but I have used the comparable Sher Cryl HP Acrylic. I'm still questioning whether I should have gone with the Bond Plex. Maybe next time.


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## djensen9367 (May 18, 2011)

the bond plex dries to slow for my application, probably would be great over previous oil finish if dry time wasn't a critical factor. But its good to look at everything.


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