# ProMar 200 XP



## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

My S.W. guy just presented the P.M. 200 XP today as an option for interior commercial contracts.
Apparently it is 3 in 1 business: sealer/filler/paint (egshel)

Great in theory, but the reality is a jaw dropping collection of application rules which sits before me in the MSDS paperwork:

Superior scrubability @ 1,200 scrubs
Excellent burnish resistence 0.1 change in gloss

impressive!

but.


In order to achieve "impressive" this wonder fluid requires a few things:

Spray and backroll ONLY! NO BRUSHING!!!
Apply 10 mil. wet!!!
.519 tip size 2000 psi.!!!!

this is gonna require a fairly skilled crew because otherwise...

The numbers:

120 sq. ft. per gal.
$36.00 after tax.

It has a deeptone base...bonus.


I'm sure someone here has/is using it, please share.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

So.....what does it do?


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

It sucks!


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> So.....what does it do?


spoken like a true B.M. guy.


shoots rainbows out of its %#&#...


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Why would you need high build on interior commercial?....ok and if you do need it ( generally for masonry/block ) who scrubs block? Maybe im missing something on this one.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

.....


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Did an insurance resto job last year and had to use the box stores for paint. Ran into the Valspar rep at Lowes and he comped me 7 gal of Valspar Contractor 2000 to try out. Truth be known, I liked the stuff better than the ProMar 200....and it came in a deep base. Brushed, rolled, and covered great with a nice even sheen. Just because some items are sold in box stores doesn't make them bad.


.....okay, you guys can start flaming me now.:whistling2:


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> Why would you need high build on interior commercial?....ok and if you do need it ( generally for masonry/block ) who scrubs block? Maybe im missing something on this one.


Mainly it seems to be a prime/paint in one...the rest is fodder for info. nerds I guess. It would save time by applying one coat over new drywall, but at 10 mils. it just seems insane.
Kripes man I don't make the stuff, just curious!!!!


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

Wolfgang said:


> Did an insurance resto job last year and had to use the box stores for paint. Ran into the Valspar rep at Lowes and he comped me 7 gal of Valspar Contractor 2000 to try out. Truth be known, I liked the stuff better than the ProMar 200....and it came in a deep base. Brushed, rolled, and covered great with a nice even sheen. Just because some items are sold in box stores doesn't make them bad.
> 
> 
> .....okay, you guys can start flaming me now.:whistling2:




proof that a pro can make any material work.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

No some of those paints are actually not bad at all.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

WisePainter said:


> Mainly it seems to be a prime/paint in one...the rest is fodder for info. nerds I guess. It would save time by applying one coat over new drywall, but at 10 mils. it just seems insane.
> Kripes man I don't make the stuff, just curious!!!!


Didnt that have prime/finish already. C.H.B? So, basically its that, now available in deep bases, at 4 times the cost. :thumbsup: Gooooooooooo Sherwinnnnnnnnnn....yayyyyyyyyyyyyy :notworthy:


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Let's not pretend that just because a cheap flat (CHB, supercraft, etc) is often applied directly to drywall that it primes and finishes in one coat. Remember too that almost all interior BM paints did not call for primer on drywall long before Aura came along.


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> Didnt that have prime/finish already. C.H.B? So, basically its that, now available in deep bases, at 4 times the cost. :thumbsup: Gooooooooooo Sherwinnnnnnnnnn....yayyyyyyyyyyyyy :notworthy:


do you possibly work for, or own a B.M. franchise by ANY chance?


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## SWGuy (Jun 26, 2009)

ProMar 200 xp is a labor saving product that will give the performance and look of 1 prime coat and 2 topcoats in a system of using just 2 coats of xp.

Where it saves labor is when you are doing a specified job that is spec'd 1 prime 2 top, most architects will approve 2 coats of this material. I have had people win jobs with these labor savings.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

WisePainter said:


> do you possibly work for, or own a B.M. franchise by ANY chance?


Maybe.....and they aren't franchises. We start them from scratch, and build our own business, just like you.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

SWGuy said:


> ProMar 200 xp is a labor saving product that will give the performance and look of 1 prime coat and 2 topcoats in a system of using just 2 coats of xp.
> 
> Where it saves labor is when you are doing a specified job that is spec'd 1 prime 2 top, most architects will approve 2 coats of this material. I have had people win jobs with these labor savings.


With the DFT this makes sense to me now. What's the spread rate? I mean cool, you're saving on labor, but if the spread rate is half...the savings starts to shrink fast.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

@ 120 sq ft/ gal. That breaks down to .31/ft. material cost per foot. Aura has a cost of .12/ft. People say how they will never buy Aura because of cost....XP200 is almost three times as expensive as Aura. That kind of cost per foot can really ding your profit margin on a job.


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> Maybe.....and they aren't franchises. We start them from scratch, and build our own business, just like you.



ffs, you have a friggin' death grip about it then doncha'?

:jester:


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> With the DFT this makes sense to me now. What's the spread rate? I mean cool, you're saving on labor, but if the spread rate is half...the savings starts to shrink fast.





NCPaint1 said:


> @ 120 sq ft/ gal. That breaks down to .31/ft. material cost per foot. Aura has a cost of .12/ft. People say how they will never buy the product because of cost....XP200 is almost three times as expensive.




Both excellent questions that I too asked. The answer lies with the individual painter I guess.
But yeah, I see it the way you do.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

SWGuy said:


> ProMar 200 xp is a labor saving product
> 
> 
> 
> I have had people win jobs with these labor savings.


more power to them if they walk such a thin line. To me, thats not a fun project.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

SWGuy said:


> ProMar 200 xp is a labor saving product that will give the performance and look of 1 prime coat and 2 topcoats in a system of using just 2 coats of xp.
> 
> Where it saves labor is when you are doing a specified job that is spec'd 1 prime 2 top, most architects will approve 2 coats of this material. I have had people win jobs with these labor savings.


Hey that's BM line. WTF!
Why I think it sucks cause the touch up is worthless. I've had it right out of the same bucket of the original. And it looked like horse sh!t. Sorry, but the labor you save due too 2 coats gets burned up in touch up. Only speaking with my experience, and it's determined that it sucks.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

what happens when you apply any product twice at 10 mil wet?

1200 scrubs is nothing to get excited about with paints doing more than twice that at 4mil wet


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

TJ Paint said:


> more power to them if they walk such a thin line. To me, thats not a fun project.



^this.


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## Retired (Jul 27, 2010)

jack pauhl said:


> what happens when you apply any product twice at 10 mil wet?
> 
> 1200 scrubs is nothing to get excited about with paints doing more than twice that at 4mil wet


I always thought scrub tests were done on dry mils. Being an advocate of keeping callbacks to a minimum, scrubbing a wall before a repaint is IMO a good idea. 1200 scrubs is a great way to test but kind of overkill in the real world.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Retired said:


> I always thought scrub tests were done on dry mils. Being an advocate of keeping callbacks to a minimum, scrubbing a wall before a repaint is IMO a good idea. 1200 scrubs is a great way to test but kind of overkill in the real world.



Scrubs are on dry film? My point was at 4 mils wet and less than 2 dry vs apply 10 mil to get 4.6 dry and 1200 scrubs


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## Retired (Jul 27, 2010)

jack pauhl said:


> Scrubs are on dry film? My point was at 4 mils wet and less than 2 dry vs apply 10 mil to get 4.6 dry and 1200 scrubs


Yes, the paint is dry and cured. There are several ASTM codes that cover this. 1200 scrub cycles is overkill. 300-500 is fairly standard. The greater the millage wet or dry, the number of scrub cycles is going to increase. The equipment used is pricy and like any piece of mechanical equipment there is a certain level of innacuracy, due to the wear on the brushes and the type abrasive used. Operator error plays a part too.

Another one that is subject to much discussion and controversy is gloss level. The meters are very accurate. The operators aren't. 

Many coatings are applied at even greater thicknesses than 10 wet mils.

In polymers the shrink rate is significant what might be considered a "thick" application will dry and cure to many times far less than the wet millage.

There is some fudging that goes on too, as in many coats of a material that normally is a 1 or two coat application and the scrub test is performed on the "many" coat application. Something they never tell you, even in the fine print.

Fortunately most paintmakers do not pull this and the chief offenders are the makers of that flat that is a high Kaolin fraction that looks great until somebody breathes hard on the stuff..


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

Retired said:


> Yes, the paint is dry and cured. There are several ASTM codes that cover this. 1200 scrub cycles is overkill. 300-500 is fairly standard. The greater the millage wet or dry, the number of scrub cycles is going to increase. The equipment used is pricy and like any piece of mechanical equipment there is a certain level of innacuracy, due to the wear on the brushes and the type abrasive used. Operator error plays a part too.
> 
> Another one that is subject to much discussion and controversy is gloss level. The meters are very accurate. The operators aren't.
> 
> ...


I don't care what the others say (obviously), I think you are awesome!


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Sorry Retired.. I wasn't asking if it was performed on dry kinda of a no brainer. 

I should have underlined it. Scrubs are on dry film? whatyoutalkingaboutwillis I thought you lost it there when you said "I always thought scrub tests were done on dry mils."


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