# i bought paint at home depot today does that make me a hack?



## tntpainting (Apr 3, 2008)

Just for the,hell ofit i tried the new glidden duo line ,not bad stuff and ill use it again at 22 bucks a gal beats what was eatin up my profits lately lol


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## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

Great another one bites the dust. How many painters are going to get in bed with HD..


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## scottjr (Jan 14, 2012)

Not me....


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

op= yes..


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## tntpainting (Apr 3, 2008)

Dont worry guys im still a swp guy lmao


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

tntpainting said:


> Just for the,hell ofit i tried the new glidden duo line ,not bad stuff and ill use it again at 22 bucks a gal beats what was eatin up my profits lately lol


If you have the customers buy the paint too that will save more eating of profits. :jester:


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## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

tntpainting said:


> Dont worry guys im still a swp guy lmao


With all the SW haters out there..idk if that makes you any better :laughing:


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## ltd (Nov 18, 2010)

hey go for it .i do all the time . literally across the street from my s/w is a blows .lately for all my rentals ,in and out type jobs,closet paint, i have been getting valspar 2000 about 20 bucks a gal.


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## tntpainting (Apr 3, 2008)

But then u end up using garbage most of the time so imho its a no win situation i used to just bid out the labor maybe ill try that again


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## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

tntpainting said:


> But then u end up using garbage most of the time so imho its a no win situation i used to just bid out the labor maybe ill try that again


Why not bid your paint and labor together..that way no one is getting screwed. 

Dont take this personally, maybe im just burned out from hearing about pricing increases.

But you dont have to take a hit from the paint stores raising their pricing. You charge your customers what the paint costs.

Its kind of like the guy that sits at home and complains about his unemployment running out after 6 months..because theres no jobs out there. He doesnt get off his @ss and do anything about it..so he wants sympathy. Really theres jobs out there, just like people will still pay for paint.


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## the paintman (Feb 3, 2012)

StripandCaulk said:


> Great another one bites the dust. How many painters are going to get in bed with HD..


Count me in. And we have been having a heck of a time. I am the first to admit and tell people that I would never buy paint from HD. Not becuase they have bad paint. But because i can't deal with the counter sales. Or lack of quanity for commercial work.

But...But never say never.

Heres my story. I am painting a national chain hotel with a primary red interior band about 6 feet wide and 900 feet long. And the same color on the tile mansard roof outside. And comes time to order the primary red color from SW. I had already switched to another brand for the main color after the last increase cuz now i am saving over 5 bucks a gallon. For basic interior satin paint.

I know from experience you can't match reds so I don't even want to go through the BS to only find out its to hard. So I call SW to find out they have about 6 gals of the deep base i need in my whole metro area. I need about 200 gals. No idea when they will have it they tell me either. I was sitting at the hotel bar (it was not open yet luckily) lamenting over my dire situation when who walks in but a HD salesman. Not just any HD salesman, but the foremer sales rep from SW that just quit for his own reasons to do with the price increases. He had also been milking this hotel repaint for 2 or 3 years. Selling (probably giving away) minor paint to the maintenance guy. 

He ask if he could do anything for me. Figuring this is not gonna go far, I flippantly said yeah you can match this interior red paint in an exterior product for me. OHHH and i need 200 gals probably. He said i got a warehouse with a million gals in it . Not a problem. I'll have a gal matched and drop it by this after noon. 

And he did. And they matched it perfectly. So closly i actually touched up sw's paint with it. In Behr Premium ultra and he delivered the first 50 of 200 the next day. WOW! Was all i could say. Direct from the warehouse too. Utilizing my HD commercial acct i have had for years. Too easy.

He is my new hero. And probably I saved about 2000 bucks just on that particular product for 1 job. And it covered in two coats rolled over grey primer. Two coats sprayed without priming (because the old color was a dark green) on the mansard. I am extremely pleased to say the least. 

Funny thing is my SW rep is taking me to an ABC golf tournament Monday. He still gets my business. But it dropped tremendously in the last few months. 

I will never learn to never say never I guess.


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## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

I just dont like Home Depot. I think they suck. So does blowes


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

I guess people forget the customer is buying the paint. If you are charging the same but buying cheaper qquality paint, youre just screwing over your customer. Congratulations?


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## the paintman (Feb 3, 2012)

I'll tell u what blows. Thats any ultra deep base or Color Accents base from sw that I have ever used.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

doesnt make you a HACK but does make you look POOR .......i used some Valspar high gloss last month an that stuff was alright gave FH (finneran haley)a run for its money .............


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## TERRY365PAINTER (Jul 26, 2009)

People don't care about high dollar paint ! 
Just bid a 1/2 million condo .spec it with Aura and advance . The winning bid was 4000 grad with paint . Over 8000 sq ft . Repairs 20 some doors lots of dark colors to paint back to white . 
1 color system for everything . White ! 
I can't sell it , everybody's cheap . My bid ran 
Way over 😁


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

the paintman said:


> Count me in.


Thats great to hear. I've been very happy with our local HD PROPAINT rep and the team of BEHRPRO reps positioned in our area. Their team of people to turn to for answers is ridiculous and fast. 

I've been pimpin out this photo to some local paint contractors who I know have recoatnitous disease so i've been prescribing small doses of ULTRA for a quick fix. The stuff just works.


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## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

JP i have nothing but respect for you..but do you ever take photos of dried paint?


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

StripandCaulk said:


> JP i have nothing but respect for you..but do you ever take photos of dried paint?


No. I make the majority of my observations based on the wet film.


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## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

jack pauhl said:


> No. I make the majority of my observations based on the wet film.


Why? your dry film is the one that counts, the one eveyone is going to see. It also looks alot different. 

I could make almost any paint you give me look good in wet film, but that doesnt mean it will look good/ stay good after it is cured.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

TJ Paint said:


> I guess people forget the customer is buying the paint. If you are charging the same but buying cheaper qquality paint, youre just screwing over your customer. Congratulations?


My comment was not about them paying for the paint but picking it up from HD for the painter to use. 

Also if a deposit is not taken then the PC is buying the paint, if the job goes south then those without a deposit is out the material.


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## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

scottjr said:


> Not me....


OR me !:no:


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## wills fresh coat (Nov 17, 2011)

TJ Paint said:


> I guess people forget the customer is buying the paint. If you are charging the same but buying cheaper qquality paint, youre just screwing over your customer. Congratulations?


I don't know how you run your business but when I give my customer a price it includes all paint materials and labor so I am buying the paint. Last year sw 6 price increases cost me tons of money. I would bid jobs at the cost of the price of paint that day then when I go to do the job the material that I agreed to do the job with went up in price, you can't go to sw and tell them to lower your price and you can't go to customer to get more money, that means you eat it

And as far as screwing your customer, I think the painters that pay 40-70 a dollars for a gallon of interior paint are screwing them a lot worse. If its prepped properly you can use 10 a gal paint and it will last just as long....so who is really screwing the customer?


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## tntpainting (Apr 3, 2008)

Not if the paint is just as good youre not


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

StripandCaulk said:


> Why? your dry film is the one that counts, the one eveyone is going to see. It also looks alot different.
> 
> I could make almost any paint you give me look good in wet film, but that doesnt mean it will look good/ stay good after it is cured.


True, the dry film ultimately provides the result of coverage, leveling, and sheen but I find it to be the opposite about your last comment.

Here is a dry photo of that door and another angle of the wet film.


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## wills fresh coat (Nov 17, 2011)

tntpainting said:


> Not if the paint is just as good youre not


????????


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

tntpainting said:


> Just for the,hell ofit i tried the new glidden duo line ,not bad stuff and ill use it again at 22 bucks a gal beats what was eatin up my profits lately lol


" *Gladden with Glidden"*


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Workaholic said:


> Also if a deposit is not taken then the PC is buying the paint, if the job goes south then those without a deposit is out the material.


I guess we could also start talking about doing projects for people in terms of "buying the job" for the customer if the job goes south as well. Where do we stop thinking in these terms? I guess the answer for me is when we assume the job will go normal, as in, we do the job and get paid.
 


wills fresh coat said:


> I don't know how you run your business but when I give my customer a price it includes all paint materials and labor so I am buying the paint. Last year sw 6 price increases cost me tons of money. I would bid jobs at the cost of the price of paint that day then when I go to do the job the material that I agreed to do the job with went up in price, you can't go to sw and tell them to lower your price and you can't go to customer to get more money, that means you eat it
> 
> It depends on the job. Most residential I will quote an estimate for materials and paint cost. I tell them the price could be a bit more or less, depending. They buy the paint, when they pay me for the job, when it's complete. I usually get a deposit as well if it's over 1k or if they are not solid repeat customers. My suggestion for you would be to have good communication with your SW rep before you quote a large job where a 4% price increase will cause you to lose gas money.
> 
> And as far as screwing your customer, I think the painters that pay 40-70 a dollars for a gallon of interior paint are screwing them a lot worse. If its prepped properly you can use 10 a gal paint and it will last just as long....so who is really screwing the customer?


Again it depends on the job, for me. Any deep base projects for interiors, I'll be thinking about using Aura. It just saves me money in labor by eliminating 1-2 coats. I don't know about you but I'd rather pay $80 more for paint then spend another 5 hours painting. Further, in spaces where you want a great washable finish, it's very hard to beat Aura. Sure, I agree that many walls can do just fine with a promar 200. 



tntpainting said:


> Not if the paint is just as good youre not


Have a great day


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## the paintman (Feb 3, 2012)

wills fresh coat said:


> I don't know how you run your business but when I give my customer a price it includes all paint materials and labor so I am buying the paint. Last year sw 6 price increases cost me tons of money. I would bid jobs at the cost of the price of paint that day then when I go to do the job the material that I agreed to do the job with went up in price, you can't go to sw and tell them to lower your price and you can't go to customer to get more money, that means you eat it
> 
> And as far as screwing your customer, I think the painters that pay 40-70 a dollars for a gallon of interior paint are screwing them a lot worse. If its prepped properly you can use 10 a gal paint and it will last just as long....so who is really screwing the customer?


:thumbup: I agree totally with these statements. Thanks, Will for putting my thoughts down so succintly. 

Gentlemen give everyone the respect you expect and lets assume that if anyone substitutes that he is also knowledgeable enough to know the comparable product line in another brand and in no way would sacrifice quality or deliver anything less to the customer as a result. 

And also just like painting is not rocket science to us. Making a quality paint is not either. Thier are about 7 ingredients in a bucket of paint. Thier really is nothing proprietary about it. Joe the Plummer can get a mixing vat and make better paint than uncle shermin, joe bloews, Ace of all trades or you local hardware store if he really wants to. He only has to use more of the better ingredients than fillers. 

So I for one, and I am sure others would appreciate if you refrain from bashing those that substitute or try other brands when it is necessary and are only trying to run a business the best way possible. My market for one has tons of competition and choices. I get the impression that some of you only have one or two games in your area. That is not the case in most metro areas I assure you. I have every name brand of paint I want to chose from plus a few you never heard of. That does not mean that can't make quality paint. One brand new brand that opened a month ago sold thier old company to Comex for somwhere in the neighborhood of 150 million. No one knows thier new company. But their old paint was good enough that SW tried to buy them for years. And Comex finally met thier demands I guess. Plus they seen the end and sold 6 months before the market crashed and baby they cashed in. Now that the no compete has expired the sons are back in the game. 

And I assure you if I inadvertantly find out i have used a piece of sheit product or paint product company, I guarantee you I will make it right and won't use it ever again, and also shout it from the roof top to you guys as well.


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

TJ Paint said:


> I don't know about you but I'd rather pay $80 more for paint then spend another 5 hours painting.


Amen to that.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

the paintman said:


> :thumbup: I agree totally with these statements. Thanks, Will for putting my thoughts down so succintly.
> 
> Gentlemen give everyone the respect you expect and lets assume that if anyone substitutes that he is also knowledgeable enough to know the comparable product line in another brand and in no way would sacrifice quality or deliver anything less to the customer as a result.
> 
> ...


Ok, so, how long would it take to mix up a homemade batch of Aura?


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## the paintman (Feb 3, 2012)

TJ Paint said:


> I guess people forget the customer is buying the paint. If you are charging the same but buying cheaper qquality paint, youre just screwing over your customer. Congratulations?


Your a business man. Ask yourself. What is included in your hourly rate? 

$50 bucks for example
Labor $20 
Insurance cost $7
marketing/ sales/Overhead $3
Profit $20

Paint company #1

Gallon of paint $50

Labor $7

Material $3

National ad compaign $5

Marketing/sales/ovrehead/ $7

To many product lines/ to many employees/ employee turnover/ to many storefronts/ bad employee moral/ to many mistints and waste. $8

We are simply just better than the rest and we got you and millions others that believe that too profit $5

Addtional profit $15


Paint company #2 Gallon of paint $27

labor $5
Material $6
No national and insignificant local ad campaign less than a buck
Marketing/sales/ overhead $2
Streamline sytem from raw material to counter. $4
profit $10

Don't assume that the price of the gal of paint automatically equates to better paint. Notice paint company #2 actually spends more on the raw materials. Because they spend millions less on national ads annually they easily can afford too. This is simply business 101


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

After reading this thread, I think the biggest problem with the painting industry are the painters themselves. I use to think it was the homeowner or whatever your customer is. But now I am convinced, painters screwed this industry up.

Whenever a painter complains about high priced paint eating into their profits - I know right off the bat that they aren't charging good money. Some of the very best profits I made were using Aura paint. A true business makes more profits when the materials costs are higher.


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## the paintman (Feb 3, 2012)

TJ Paint said:


> Ok, so, how long would it take to mix up a homemade batch of Aura?


Probably less than you really think. Or about the same time it takes to mix a batch of preium ultra. Its not that difficult really.


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## wills fresh coat (Nov 17, 2011)

Again it depends on the job, for me. Any deep base projects for interiors, I'll be thinking about using Aura. It just saves me money in labor by eliminating 1-2 coats. I don't know about you but I'd rather pay $80 more for paint then spend another 5 hours painting. Further, in spaces where you want a great washable finish, it's very hard to beat Aura. Sure, I agree that many walls can do just fine with a promar 200. 

Tj what is your everyday goto paint? (whites and midtones)


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

jack pauhl said:


> Thats great to hear. I've been very happy with our local HD PROPAINT rep and the team of BEHRPRO reps positioned in our area. Their team of people to turn to for answers is ridiculous and fast.
> 
> I've been pimpin out this photo to some local paint contractors who I know have recoatnitous disease so i've been prescribing small doses of ULTRA for a quick fix. The stuff just works.


O.k. This is over the top. L.O.L.


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## wills fresh coat (Nov 17, 2011)

Quote
Whenever a painter complains about high priced paint eating into their profits - I know right off the bat that they aren't charging good money. Some of the very best profits I made were using Aura paint. A true business makes more profits when the materials costs are higher.

I make a fixed percent on all material used on a job, so your right in that aspect but the painters who use high dollar paint on interior jobs are still screwing your customers


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

wills fresh coat said:


> I don't know how you run your business but when I give my customer a price it includes all paint materials and labor so I am buying the paint. Last year sw 6 price increases cost me tons of money. I would bid jobs at the cost of the price of paint that day then when I go to do the job the material that I agreed to do the job with went up in price, you can't go to sw and tell them to lower your price and you can't go to customer to get more money, that means you eat it
> 
> Wills-I have had this happen a few times. I asked SW to make an "exception" for the job. They do every time. I'm not sure if this will work for you...it probably depends on the relationship you have with the store or your rep.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Any painter worth their salt would know that SW has never been able to make a paint to perform in a deep base. Better project management and planning and this thread never happens.


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## wills fresh coat (Nov 17, 2011)

epretot said:


> wills fresh coat said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know how you run your business but when I give my customer a price it includes all paint materials and labor so I am buying the paint. Last year sw 6 price increases cost me tons of money. I would bid jobs at the cost of the price of paint that day then when I go to do the job the material that I agreed to do the job with went up in price, you can't go to sw and tell them to lower your price and you can't go to customer to get more money, that means you eat it
> ...


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

wills fresh coat said:


> I make a fixed percent on all material used on a job, so your right in that aspect* but the painters who use high dollar paint on interior jobs are still screwing your customers*


How do you figure? I can get my job done faster with high dollar paint due to better hide, better touch up, easier spreading, better flow, quicker recoat. A gallon of high dollar paint goes further than a gallon of low dollar HD paint.

Therefore I can charge less labor hours, less total paint cost, and thus less total cost to the homeowner with high dollar paint. 

That's how I see it.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Oden said:


> O.k. This is over the top. L.O.L.


That photo was an after thought to show coverage. I took a photo with my iPhone when I was half way down the side but the iPhone freaks out when there is too much white near the object i'm focusing on. So, I finished running the side down but didn't lay it off to go grab my Sony camera from the jack mobile then took a few more photos with both cameras before I finished the door.

I like how you can see the tips of the trees in the reflection. That was a smooth surface fiberglas door. Some of the fiberglas doors come with faint brushstrokes in the factory white finish.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

TJ Paint said:


> I guess we could also start talking about doing projects for people in terms of "buying the job" for the customer if the job goes south as well. Where do we stop thinking in these terms? I guess the answer for me is when we assume the job will go normal, as in, we do the job and get paid.


Don't get me wrong I agree with you but am simply pointing out how the interpretation of who is buying the paint seems to be. For me I pick up the products and choose what products to use and the customer is buying the products but like I was saying without getting a deposit the PC imo is buying the products.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

NEPS.US said:


> Any painter worth their salt would know that SW has never been able to make a paint to perform in a deep base. Better project management and planning and this thread never happens.


What I find most interesting about Sherwin Williams and the volume of paint they sell--is the vast environment of issues painters who use their products are faced with. For example as you mentioned deep base. SW has always been behind in that area... Color Accents? what is that transparent paint? So these regular SW painters became used to recoating stuff 5-6 times, even 7-8 coats while the other guys across the street are one coating stuff, maybe two. 

There are many examples of stuff like that and also interesting is what they've become used to or find acceptable. If you have to paint stuff 5,6,7,8 times, you might want to be aware your competitions quote is going to be less than yours. Less labor, less cost of materials by far in many cases.


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## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

jack pauhl said:


> True, the dry film ultimately provides the result of coverage, leveling, and sheen but I find it to be the opposite about your last comment.
> 
> Here is a dry photo of that door and another angle of the wet film.


Looks good. Next time you decide to take photos's JP, get a close up of wet film, and a close up of dry film. Compare it to some other products outside of behr. True test would be time, and seeing how they last.

I did my brothers house using behr, he gets a military discount being a vet at the HD. saved some money. Its not my favorite paint, but it doesn look bad when its all said and done.

HD, i am not a fan of. Maybe its the luke warm expierences at best ive had going there, or my dislike for Big corporate. I prefer to support small business which has given me a closed minded bias against using their paint.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

StripandCaulk said:


> Looks good. Next time you decide to take photos's JP, get a close up of wet film, and a close up of dry film. Compare it to some other products outside of behr. True test would be time, and seeing how they last.
> 
> I did my brothers house using behr, he gets a military discount being a vet at the HD. saved some money. Its not my favorite paint, but it doesn look bad when its all said and done.
> 
> HD, i am not a fan of. Maybe its the luke warm expierences at best ive had going there, or my dislike for Big corporate. I prefer to support small business which has given me a closed minded bias against using their paint.


Appreciate your feedback on what other painters would like to see, that helps me out with the mindset to have when taking future photos.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

What about a happy medium of quality regional brand paints? I'm not a fan of HD mainly because of the poor service I've gotten from my local store (plus I'm not a Behr fan). I tend to shy away from BM because of the outrageous prices and (again) the level of service I get. The one man show in the building supply store that carries BM is a good guy but his hours are from 9:30 - 6:00 (who gets started at 9:30?) and I don't trust the crew behind the checkout counter to come back and mix my paint when the main paint guy's not there. SW is pretty good here but again - prices are pretty high.

Out here in Oregon and Washington we have a regional company, Miller Paints, which was established in 1890, is employee owned, has about 38 stores and growing, that has a good line of products (I'm sure some guys are MP haters but... oh well). Like any brand, you learn which products perform well and which to avoid but overall their line of interior paints and primers is good and well priced (their workhorse product, which I use about 80% of the time, is in the low thirties price range - depending on sheen and base). They also carry the PPG line plus I purchase most of my sundries from them.

The main thing I like is the level of service I receive from my local MP store. I couldn't ask for a better support staff for my business and several of them have become close friends.

Curious if others have similar companies in their areas that are founded on their region's specific climate and weather conditions and which offer a viable alternative to the national brands?


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

jack pauhl said:


> That photo was an after thought to show coverage. I took a photo with my iPhone when I was half way down the side but the iPhone freaks out when there is too much white near the object i'm focusing on. So, I finished running the side down but didn't lay it off to go grab my Sony camera from the jack mobile then took a few more photos with both cameras before I finished the door.
> 
> I like how you can see the tips of the trees in the reflection. That was a smooth surface fiberglas door. Some of the fiberglas doors come with faint brushstrokes in the factory white finish.


Holy lol - is there also a "Jack Cave"? :blink:


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## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

researchhound said:


> Holy lol - is there also a "Jack Cave"? :blink:


'

Yeah HD is officially installing them in their stores. No ones put it out there yet but JP is under HD contract to convert non-believers to sleep with the BEHR.

His videos and photos will be used as propoganda in this brainwashing scheme.:whistling2::whistling2:


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

My only issue with the BEHR buying experience is hauling paint out of the store. It takes too long to check out, load up and be gone. A pick up area similar to lumber would be great. I just think the check out process could be streamlined a bit.


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## hotwing7 (Mar 31, 2012)

I don't make anything on paint when doing a job.

I tell customers what is available, and what they can expect from it. If they choose the cheaper lines (in Canada I class the cheaper line as a Homehardware brand which I actually really like) or they can go Cloverdale, Benny Moore etc etc.

As has been said they pay for the materials, I add on 5% for usage of tools and my money is in my labour. That way when they get a bill - they know exactly what they are paying for and they haven't been done.

It's all about trust.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

I think Researchhound summed it very well when he said that as is the case with any brand you learn which products perform well and which to avoid. While I did use a majority of SW, there were products of theirs that just basically sucked. Never bothered me to walk into a box store to get a product I needed.


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## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

Wolfgang said:


> I think Researchhound summed it very well when he said that as is the case with any brand you learn which products perform well and which to avoid. While I did use a majority of SW, there were products of theirs that just basically sucked. Never bothered me to walk into a box store to get a product I needed.


With all the past tense in this post..are you retired wolf?


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

researchhound said:


> What about a happy medium of quality regional brand paints? I'm not a fan of HD mainly because of the poor service I've gotten from my local store (plus I'm not a Behr fan). I tend to shy away from BM because of the outrageous prices and (again) the level of service I get. The one man show in the building supply store that carries BM is a good guy but his hours are from 9:30 - 6:00 (who gets started at 9:30?) and I don't trust the crew behind the checkout counter to come back and mix my paint when the main paint guy's not there. SW is pretty good here but again - prices are pretty high.
> 
> Out here in Oregon and Washington we have a regional company, Miller Paints, which was established in 1890, is employee owned, has about 38 stores and growing, that has a good line of products (I'm sure some guys are MP haters but... oh well). Like any brand, you learn which products perform well and which to avoid but overall their line of interior paints and primers is good and well priced (their workhorse product, which I use about 80% of the time, is in the low thirties price range - depending on sheen and base). They also carry the PPG line plus I purchase most of my sundries from them.
> 
> ...


well said, Dan.

As I was reading this thread, I was thinking that people sure are committed to their favorite brand of paint, and they are all national brands. When I was painting, like you I went with regionally formulated brands. I was convinced that products made in New England were better suited to the New England environment. I know that BM advertised that they formulated their paints regionally, but I never believed it.

I also used different brands for different situations because I never found a manufacturer that made the best paint for ALL applications. Sure, brand loyalty is a good thing. It induces preferred treatment and perhaps better pricing. But if the product is not the best there is, loyalty can be a bad business decision.

This thread has also been about pricing - seemingly that has a lot to do with purchasing decisions. I still profess that performance should be the primary reason to choose and use a product. If two products are EXACTLY the same, then sure, pick the product based on price. 

As the sign at Johnson Paint says:


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

For me, the older I get and the longer I've been in business, it's become more about the service and support I get from a supplier. Don't get me wrong, I understand those who say their only loyalty is strictly to their bottom line - I ran my business on that philosophy for many years as well. But over time I've learned that farting around and going from store to store to shave a bit off my costs often ends up costing me more in the long run. 

They obviously have to have a quality product at a reasonable price, but my main supplier has really earned my loyalty by saving my butt many times. From emergency deliveries to the job site, quick and effective color matches, professional product advice and suggestions, more referrals than I can count (literally), and just making my day better whenever I go into their store, they have earned my loyalty. Sure, I may pay a bit more for some things there but I also pay less for others - so things pretty much even out over time. It's a function of "value".

Isn't this pretty much the same thing most of us preach about providing to our customers?


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

StripandCaulk said:


> With all the past tense in this post..are you retired wolf?


That would be a yes. Going on 2 years since I sold the company due to health. Still help out a few others I know...and still average about 3-4 calls a week. Lately though it's been more of the 5-6 calls.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

researchhound said:


> For me, the older I get and the longer I've been in business, it's become more about the service and support I get from a supplier. Don't get me wrong, I understand those who say their only loyalty is strictly to their bottom line - I ran my business on that philosophy for many years as well. But over time I've learned that farting around and going from store to store to shave a bit off my costs often ends up costing me more in the long run.
> 
> They obviously have to have a quality product at a reasonable price, but my main supplier has really earned my loyalty by saving my butt many times. From emergency deliveries to the job site, quick and effective color matches, professional product advice and suggestions, more referrals than I can count (literally), and just making my day better whenever I go into their store, they have earned my loyalty. Sure, I may pay a bit more for some things there but I also pay less for others - so things pretty much even out over time. It's a function of "value".
> 
> Isn't this pretty much the same thing most of us preach about providing to our customers?


Since I did quite a bit of insurance resto jobs, I was always in a box store for some reason or another. And, as I've said many times, some of the insurance companies have special accounts with the box stores so you basically had to follow their guidelines.

I don't expect great service from a box store. Been doing it long enough that I just wanted to go in, get what I needed, and get out....about the same I did with SW. Not to say I didn't enjoy their service, but it wasn't what made or broke the deal for me.


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## wills fresh coat (Nov 17, 2011)

Rcon said:


> How do you figure? I can get my job done faster with high dollar paint due to better hide, better touch up, easier spreading, better flow, quicker recoat. A gallon of high dollar paint goes further than a gallon of low dollar HD paint.
> 
> Therefore I can charge less labor hours, less total paint cost, and thus less total cost to the homeowner with high dollar paint.
> 
> That's how I see it.


Your wrong, but that's your opinion......I just see it another way


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

wills fresh coat said:


> Your wrong, but that's your opinion......I just see it another way



How can an opinion be wrong ?


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## wills fresh coat (Nov 17, 2011)

daArch said:


> How can an opinion be wrong ?


Inaccurate?


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Rcon is right on and probably more profitable.


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## wills fresh coat (Nov 17, 2011)

NEPS.US said:


> Rcon is right on and probably more profitable.


Hey neps, wanna bet?


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

researchhound said:


> What about a happy medium of quality regional brand paints? I'm not a fan of HD mainly because of the poor service I've gotten from my local store (plus I'm not a Behr fan). I tend to shy away from BM because of the outrageous prices and (again) the level of service I get. The one man show in the building supply store that carries BM is a good guy but his hours are from 9:30 - 6:00 (who gets started at 9:30?) and I don't trust the crew behind the checkout counter to come back and mix my paint when the main paint guy's not there. SW is pretty good here but again - prices are pretty high.
> 
> Out here in Oregon and Washington we have a regional company, Miller Paints, which was established in 1890, is employee owned, has about 38 stores and growing, that has a good line of products (I'm sure some guys are MP haters but... oh well). Like any brand, you learn which products perform well and which to avoid but overall their line of interior paints and primers is good and well priced (their workhorse product, which I use about 80% of the time, is in the low thirties price range - depending on sheen and base). They also carry the PPG line plus I purchase most of my sundries from them.
> 
> ...


in the Philly area we have M.A.B.-Great paint man. People in this area trust that brand especially their exterior "sea shore" line. They were bought out by S.W. a couple of years ago. The stores and their products still are labeled as M.A.B. but I'm not so sure their formulas remain unchanged. As far as pricing, their products weren't the cheapest before and being owned by S.W. sure ain't bringing their prices down any.


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## wills fresh coat (Nov 17, 2011)

Oden said:


> in the Philly area we have M.A.B.-Great paint man. People in this area trust that brand especially their exterior "sea shore" line. They were bought out by S.W. a couple of years ago. The stores and their products still are labeled as M.A.B. but I'm not so sure their formulas remain unchanged. As far as pricing, their products weren't the cheapest before and being owned by S.W. sure ain't bringing their prices down any.


Mab was the **** before sw bought them and duron was good also.......they had awesome exterior paint.....how many stores are still mab in your area. We had about 30 durons, now we have around 10.....


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## ttd (Sep 30, 2010)

StripandCaulk said:


> Great another one bites the dust. How many painters are going to get in bed with HD..


Probably as many as want to!


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## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

ttd said:


> Probably as many as want to!


That right there is a billy madison response


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

wills fresh coat said:


> Mab was the **** before sw bought them and duron was good also.......they had awesome exterior paint.....how many stores are still mab in your area. We had about 30 durons, now we have around 10.....


I don't know of any durons left but the one down the street from me now has a S.W. sign but still carries the duron products in the back. The M.A.B. stores and the S.W. stores all carry both M.A.B. and S.W. lines. It's kind of convenient yet weird at the same time.

What do you think of Sea Shore now? Do you think they changed the formula?
Some say they did but why in the world would you mess with Sea Shore?


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

the paintman said:


> Probably less than you really think. Or about the same time it takes to mix a batch of preium ultra. Its not that difficult really.


Ok, if it's that easy, post a video of you mixing up a batch. Post it on here. It would also be a great blog piece for your business.
 


wills fresh coat said:


> Tj what is your everyday goto paint? (whites and midtones)


It depends on the job. I choose products based on the needs and expectations of the customer, and what I decide will deliver in the most profitable manner for myself. 
But generally it's been Ben for common walls of residential repaints and aura for bath and kitchens. Sometimes where quality isn't as important to the customer, promar 200 or P&H gold.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

TJ Paint said:


> Ok, if it's that easy, post a video of you mixing up a batch. Post it on here. It would also be a great blog piece for your business.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's also good for your complexion and on linguini... :yes:


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Ole34 said:


> doesnt make you a HACK but does make you look POOR .......i used some Valspar high gloss last month an that stuff was alright gave FH (finneran haley)a run for its money .............


 Looking poor and being poor is not the same.:whistling2:


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## the paintman (Feb 3, 2012)

researchhound said:


> It's also good for your complexion and on linguini... :yes:


 Ok How did you get that picture of me mixing my special sauce? You Hack you


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Rcon said:


> How do you figure? I can get my job done faster with high dollar paint due to better hide, better touch up, easier spreading, better flow, quicker recoat. A gallon of high dollar paint goes further than a gallon of low dollar HD paint.
> 
> Therefore I can charge less labor hours, less total paint cost, and thus less total cost to the homeowner with high dollar paint.
> 
> That's how I see it.


Im guessing your not using sw,The high dollar part was right on though.


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## Lazerline (Mar 26, 2012)

I always give recommendations for higher end paint lines but ultimately I will use what ever they want since they are buying.


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## wills fresh coat (Nov 17, 2011)

Lazerline said:


> I always give recommendations for higher end paint lines but ultimately I will use what ever they want since they are buying.


I'm the pro, they use the paint I want to use and not some paint they think is the end all they seen on some DIY show......or we can just part ways


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

the paintman said:


> Ok How did you get that picture of me mixing my special sauce? You Hack you


"Google Earth" is getting pretty damned good! :yes:


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Having seen some very impressive results from using BEHR paints at near half BM pricing, I could run more profitable with BEHR, no brainer. 2:1 If you haven't seen the BEHR finish photos, take a look at the album. No one on this board has posted anything like it nor have I been able to replicate those finishes with any other product. Came very close with ADVANCE but again, much more expensive paint and required more screwing around to pull it off. There is video of it too.

Spec on Aura is 400 sq ft with a wet film of 4.3, dry 2.0 so if you run Aura thinner than that--then you are reducing spec and posting 800 sq ft per gal tells me that the paint is being applied at half of spec and ULTRA could be reduced to do the same at 2:1 pricing of Aura. 

ULTRA and Premium Plus give Aura a run for its money on being highly profitable paints to apply. 

Bottom line is this... I'm finishing stuff with the same capabilities of Aura for half the price.


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## wills fresh coat (Nov 17, 2011)

jack pauhl said:


> Having seen some very impressive results from using BEHR paints at near half BM pricing, I could run more profitable with BEHR, no brainer. 2:1 If you haven't seen the BEHR finish photos, take a look at the album. No one on this board has posted anything like it nor have I been able to replicate those finishes with any other product. Came very close with ADVANCE but again, much more expensive paint.
> 
> Spec on Aura is 400 sq ft with a wet film of 4.3, dry 2.0 so if you run Aura thinner than that--then you are reducing spec and posting 800 sq ft per gal tells me that the paint is being applied at half of spec and ULTRA could be reduced to do the same at 2:1 pricing of Aura.
> 
> ...


That's funny jack but all these guys that drink the aura flavored cool aid will never believe you, they will just keep wasting thousands of dollars of the customers money?...but that's fine cause they don't pay for the paint, Lol


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

wills fresh coat said:


> That's funny jack but all these guys that drink the aura flavored cool aid will never believe you, they will just keep wasting thousands of dollars of the customers money?...but that's fine cause they don't pay for the paint, Lol


This morning I met with a HO to get colors for a dream home repaint. They have money to buy the best of anything. He is one of those guys who gets what he wants and I could put any paint i want on this job at any price and he would pay the price. He also wants a minimum 1 gal of each 7 colors left behind.

We will be applying a combination of Premium Plus and ULTRA.


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## wills fresh coat (Nov 17, 2011)

jack pauhl said:


> This morning I met with a HO to get colors for a dream home repaint. They have money to buy the best of anything. He is one of those guys who gets what he wants and I could put any paint i want on this job at any price and he would pay the price. He also wants a minimum 1 gal of each 7 colors left behind.
> 
> We will be applying a combination of Premium Plus and ULTRA.


Damn jack what do you know....:thumbsup:


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

jack pauhl said:


> ULTRA and Premium Plus give Aura a run for its money on being highly profitable paints *to apply.
> *
> Bottom line is this... I'm finishing stuff with the *same capabilities *of Aura for half the price.


You might be able to apply behr at the same production rates as aura. That doesn't mean they are of equal value.

They have the same capabilities? That's funny. I repainted a condo where behr was used. There were major burnishes all over the walls in the kitchen where they were washed. Aura won't have that. 

They are not the same.

Fresh coat, I haven't drank the kool aid. I actually stayed away from aura for a few years. I decided to try a comped gallon for a kitchen deep red. Two coats over builders white. I was sold on it's capabilities after that.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

wills fresh coat said:


> Damn jack what do you know....:thumbsup:


We painted this HO's house back in 2003, NC. The house looks identical to the day we painted it. Clean as a model home and very well kept, some might use the word perfect shape. As if time stood still. We applied Benjamin Moore Regal Matte China White to the whole house as an upgrade new product. 

If you were to see this house you would probably ask if anyone even lives in it. In theory, when a paint job will get no use, you could apply $10 paint because the walls are not touched, not washed, nothing hung on them and barely looked at.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


> This morning I met with a HO to get colors for a dream home repaint. They have money to buy the best of anything. He is one of those guys who gets what he wants and I could put any paint i want on this job at any price and he would pay the price. He also wants a minimum 1 gal of each 7 colors left behind.
> 
> We will be applying a combination of Premium Plus and ULTRA.


Jack,

as much as I appreciate examples to support a point - especially when it supports my opinion - the problem is, John Q Public knows squat. And having enough money to get what one wants doesn't mean he WANTS what is best. People are easily swayed by hype, "recomendation" and advertising. 

As professionals, we should use and recommend product we have learned by experience to be the best for the situation - all factors considered.


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## the paintman (Feb 3, 2012)

Deep red is not as difficult as pure red and I covered in 2 coats of behr premium (28) for probably less than half the cost of Aura


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

TJ Paint said:


> You might be able to apply behr at the same production rates as aura. That doesn't mean they are of equal value.
> 
> They have the same capabilities? That's funny. I repainted a condo where behr was used. There were major burnishes all over the walls in the kitchen where they were washed. Aura won't have that.
> 
> ...


You're right, they are not the same, ULTRA tends to be more capable, easier to use, less screwing around and more failsafe. I have yet to see a paint that won't burnish.


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## the paintman (Feb 3, 2012)

Listen I'm not a HD proponent. Or an Aura opponent. Its good paint too. I'm Just saying. Thier are many quality options out there. For better applications and prices. I mainly only use two brands for eveything. I like to keep it simple. 
Do any of you even know the real reason for the SW increases to begin with? Just so you know it has more to do with corporate greed and pleasing wall street than anything else. Thats it. Think about it. If it were titanium alone why would they increase 8% or better across the board. Its not even in every product. The guys you deal with feel just as bad for us as we do. They all know the reasons. Thats why many are quitting on principle alone.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

daArch said:


> Jack,
> 
> as much as I appreciate examples to support a point - especially when it supports my opinion - the problem is, John Q Public knows squat. And having enough money to get what one wants doesn't mean he WANTS what is best. People are easily swayed by hype, "recomendation" and advertising.
> 
> As professionals, we should use and recommend product we have learned by experience to be the best for the situation - all factors considered.


My thing with BM's line and using BEHR's line is that I fail to see the benefit in using BM at almost double the cost. BM has the right strategy with product capabilities but BEHR delvers it at a lower price. I shouldn't use the words "same capabilities" because technically I don't know at the ingredient level. Aura could be better paint and it should be at that price but as a paint contractor we have no way of knowing.

BEHR is doing what I wanted to see in paints back in 2000. It took almost 6 years after that before paint hit our market to meet those expectations. BM actually came to the table first with Aura but had a high price tag. At the time is was beneficial to use as it does save labor coats but BEHR then shortly after hit the market with ULTRA and a much lower price.

I learned this year that SW makes paints to make people feel warm and fuzzy so i guess its what you want to feel like out of your paints. I don't want to feel robbed... I know that.


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## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

Everyone has their brand of paint..how much of one paint being better than the other can you always place between products. Interior paint..you have behr covering in 2 coats for people and you have aura covering in two coats. Anyone actually paint a room with aura and Ultra side by side wall by wall. Wash both of them and see which one covers better or doesnt burnish? Clearly one is represented by a big box store, and another by a brand that distributes primarily through small business's. The price of one is alot cheaper than the other. From looking at the business models and marketing of the products is it safe to say one is a better product?

If you bring burnishing into factor and you walk into someones home and you observe it. They tell you what was used, you dont know how many times its been washed. washed with, or what they were washing off. Also dont know if it was washed before being fully cured. I could tell someone after finishing out a room..hey the paint needs 2 weeks to fully cure up. Kid walks in with Orange juice spills on the walls, mom wipes it off..couple days after i leave.


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## the paintman (Feb 3, 2012)

I don't even get why burnishing is even an issue. Is anyone even using flat paint on interior walls anymore?  Not where i live anyway. Satin or eggshell finish solves that problem out of the can.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

wills fresh coat said:


> I'm the pro, they use the paint I want to use and not some paint they think is the end all they seen on some DIY show......or we can just part ways


 HGTV Paints!


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


> My thing with BM's line and using BEHR's line is that I fail to see the benefit in using BM at almost double the cost. BM has the right strategy with product capabilities but BEHR delvers it at a lower price. I shouldn't use the words "same capabilities" because technically I don't know at the ingredient level. Aura could be better paint and it should be at that price but as a paint contractor we have no way of knowing.
> 
> BEHR is doing what I wanted to see in paints back in 2000. It took almost 6 years after that before paint hit our market to meet those expectations. BM actually came to the table first with Aura but had a high price tag. At the time is was beneficial to use as it does save labor coats but BEHR then shortly after hit the market with ULTRA and a much lower price.
> 
> I learned this year that SW makes paints to make people feel warm and fuzzy so i guess its what you want to feel like out of your paints. I don't want to feel robbed... I know that.


Jack,

I'm not saying your opinion of Behr is flawed even if I have a different opinion. I was addressing your example of using a person with money as an authority. I personally despise people who think JUST because they got money they know everything. Sure, if they want me to apply crap (literally) on their walls, I will do it. But that don't make crap the best choice for everyone.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

jack pauhl said:


> You're right, they are not the same, ULTRA tends to be more capable, easier to use, less screwing around and more failsafe. I have yet to see a paint that won't burnish.


Perhaps I just feel like having a good debate and this happens to be my baby now...

Your adjectives to describe your golden paint are vague and say nothing really. 

*"Capable"*: to do what?

*"Easier to use"*: for you? I've found aura to be very easy to use, that's one of the reasons I like it. I have to work it much less than other paints I've used.

*"More failsafe"*: in what terms? Again, very vague and doesn't tell me anything. 

Just because all paints may be able to burnish doesn't mean that some paints are much more resistant. 

Aura is very *"capable"* in resisting burnishing in high wash areas such as kitchens and bathrooms (see this would be an example of using a term and defining it's meaning in a particular context, and allows the reader to understand what you're talking about).


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

the paintman said:


> I don't even get why burnishing is even an issue. Is anyone even using flat paint on interior walls anymore?  Not where i live anyway. Satin or eggshell finish solves that problem out of the can.


No it don't. There's plenty of eggshell and satins that will burnish from light washing.


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## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

TJ Paint said:


> No it don't. There's plenty of eggshell and satins that will burnish from light washing.


TJ behr was rated by consumer reports..it has to be the bomb. and its cheaper so why would i waste my money buying expensive paint or hiring a contractor. I mean have you seen the home depot commercials..if the husband and wife in those can do it so can i. and it looks really good! 

im sorry i just read a site that put behr paint as a high performance quality paint. i now know everything about it :blink:


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

A good matte finish is essential for me. We do some eggshell, but IMHO satin and higher sheens on walls looks tacky. I just do not care for the appearance at all.


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## the paintman (Feb 3, 2012)

TJ Paint said:


> No it don't. There's plenty of eggshell and satins that will burnish from light washing.


Wow I hope your not paying a lot for that sheit.

Dean

I'm not disagreeing with you. I think a good flat is a rich look too. I'm just saying thier are no customers that want flat in my area. Certainly not in commercial. And I can't remember the last residential repaint that I did where they didn't have children or grandchildren and wanted flat.

The last place i can remember using flat on walls is in new home construction and I ain't done one in years. They are always cheap flat builders grade, even on cusotm homes. But I hope I never have to do another one in my life anyway.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Our main interior wall paints are regal matte and aura matte, fwiw. Each to there own preferences and regional styles.

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Paint Talk


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## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

DeanV said:


> Our main interior wall paints are regal matte and aura matte, fwiw. Each to there own preferences and regional styles.
> 
> Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Paint Talk


I like the regal select for wall paint..matte and occasionally eggshell. 

for full baths, i like to use matte for the ceiling, eggshell on walls


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

daArch said:


> Jack,
> 
> I'm not saying your opinion of Behr is flawed even if I have a different opinion. I was addressing your example of using a person with money as an authority. I personally despise people who think JUST because they got money they know everything. Sure, if they want me to apply crap (literally) on their walls, I will do it. But that don't make crap the best choice for everyone.


n/p bill... I was simply saying money is no object and he wants a good paint job which means a paint job as good as it gets. I just shared a video on my + which I think you'll appreciate on experts.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

the paintman said:


> Wow I hope your not paying a lot for that sheit.


I pay more for stuff that doesn't do that sheit.
I pay 18 gal for stuff that does.


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## promax (Jan 30, 2011)

Honestly I'm done arguing paint brands. The companies don't care. WHY because they are all making money off of our asses. lol I've used every type of paint I can think of. Most are very similar and some require different techniques to achieve a great finish. I worked for MAB and Sherwin for quite a while and know there lines very well. I was using MAB lusterlite as my matte finish for years, until a behr rep gave me a gallon up ultra to try. The new ultra goes on like butter with a brush and roller, and it actually effectively primes and seals stains lol. Go figure. This is just what i've witnessed. There are crap paints out there i'm sure but when a gallon of duration or aura cost me double or more than ultra with a can design that appeals to my customers, a primer that saves me time, i going with that until sw bm offers me something better. I can for go bitching that they only have one counter person and my local HD and i generally have to wait quite a while for big orders to be filled. I just show up early or order my paint in advance (like most people should do) and i dont have issues. bottom line guys we shouldn't support the fight between the big companies and there greedy ways, we should come together with updates on the different lines and price points and stick it to them and maybe we will shock the system into making us happy and able to make a profit without the head aches and hairloss lol. Well i think thats enough of a rant for today.


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## HJ61 (Nov 14, 2011)

I was in the yesterday for some coverstain, couldn't help but notice that Kilz ProX sealer was $10/gallon and the ProX paints arr about $20/gallon. Canadian pricing. Has anyone used these? That being said, the dude behind the counter was super annoying assuming I knew nothing about paint. And free delivery from my regular store is nice...


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

I love the know-it-all guys that work behind the counter. 

I just shut them up by saying, "I think I'll stick with coverstain, the reason I came in here. Since it's worked for me for the last thousand gallons..."


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## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

TJ Paint said:


> I love the know-it-all guys that work behind the counter.
> 
> I just shut them up by saying, "I think I'll stick with coverstain, the reason I came in here. Since it's worked for me for the last thousand gallons..."


LOL, yeah..i usually get re-educated on paint when i go in. I learned the benefits of using primer and paint in one and what a high tech product it was. Then when i found the brushes he tried to tell me which one was best for doing trim(2"). I picked a 3" angled xl and he told me it might be too difficult to use. 

I asked him where i could find blue tape, then he started walking one way and i walked the other


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

I get re educated here. PT is not immune to raising eyebrows either, look around. Not sure what the point here is. You guys bored?


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## bassfearmee (May 11, 2012)

I've always used Behr paint, pricing is great, I get 10% off on all paint products, the product performs and looks great and my customers love it. I stick with the Premium Plus on most jobs, and go with the Ultra when red is involved. I use an airless with their ceiling paint, a roller hooked up to my airless for walls, and an HVLP for trim and doors. I've not had one complaint about their products, however there are some people at the paint counters who should be working in lawn and garden. 

I've run into some problems with their solid color deck and siding stains lately, they changed their formula and it doesn't perform like it used to. HD still carries the FLOOD brand stains, but FLOOD changed their formula a few years ago and now they suck as well. 

I've been thinking about trying some new brands of paint and I've opened an account at my SW store, but it's so hard to say no to Behr. Behr has been good to me. My HD store even gave me three complete color wheels for each of their Behr, Kilz Pro and Glidden brands so I can leave a wheels with several customers at a time and still have one as a backup.

The only thing I buy from SW is Peel Bond and pressure washer O rings. Their paint prices are too high, even with a contractor discount.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

bassfearmee said:


> I've always used Behr paint, pricing is great, I get 10% off on all paint products, the product performs and looks great and my customers love it. I stick with the Premium Plus on most jobs, and go with the Ultra when red is involved. I use an airless with their ceiling paint, a roller hooked up to my airless for walls, and an HVLP for trim and doors. I've not had one complaint about their products, however there are some people at the paint counters who should be working in lawn and garden.
> 
> I've run into some problems with their solid color deck and siding stains lately, they changed their formula and it doesn't perform like it used to. HD still carries the FLOOD brand stains, but FLOOD changed their formula a few years ago and now they suck as well.
> 
> ...


 For a first post


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

You also stole prowalls sig with you're screen name, not cool:no:


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## bassfearmee (May 11, 2012)

Whatever. You "professionals" go ahead and keep pricing in your overpriced SW paint and I'll keep under bidding you. Just picked up a new job yesterday that a local contractor bid way too high on. She asked what brand paint I use, and I told her Behr and only Behr, she asked about SW paint, told her it's a ripoff paint. Funny thing, the other guy used the SW talking points about his paint, she went with me. Besides, I have a book of before/after pictures of all my work, and judging by the hallway he painted for her two months ago I don't blame her (brush strokes near the ceiling, no straight lines, pulled tape marks here and there, no caulked seams).


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

bassfearmee said:


> Whatever. You "professionals" go ahead and keep pricing in your overpriced SW paint and I'll keep under bidding you.


The "professionals" around here irritate me sometimes too.

You go girl :thumbsup:


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Pretty soon Behr will be a banned word on PT due to the issues it causes. We'll be spelling it Bare, Bear, Behhr, Bearh, Beehr, etc, ettc, etcc...


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

I bid a house last week..the HOs were obviously "home depot people".(they kept talking about going there to look at colors).

In the contract I stated Ben Moore.

I'm probably not gonna get it.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

Steve Richards said:


> I bid a house last week..the HOs were obviously "home depot people".(they kept talking about going there to look at colors).
> 
> In the contract I stated Ben Moore.
> 
> I'm probably not gonna get it.


I've been there before :thumbup:


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

We all have, Rent.

Luckily this year..I don't have to care if I get this gig or not. 

in fact, if they get someone else JUST because I'm not gonna be willing to use HD...that's cool.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

Steve Richards said:


> We all have, Rent.
> 
> Luckily this year..I don't have to care if I get this gig or not.
> 
> in fact, if they get someone else JUST because I'm not gonna be willing to use HD...that's cool.


What's exactly what you guys don't like about HD ? I personally always like to use top of the line. Monday I did a job where I had to use Superpaint, it was only painting one bedroom and a bathroom. A one day job right? really easy. I couldn't apply the second coat because the paint wasn't drying and it didn't dry that day I had to go back Tuesday to apply the second coat. So profits went poof. The rest of this week I've been using Kilz Pro-X 310 and Behr Paint and Primer in one in a flat enamel and all I can say is WOW!! both paints really easy to apply and the hiding is great. From a painter that uses mostly Benjamin Moore, All I can say is that I will be using these products again when I can. :thumbsup:


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

It's mostly an "old and set in my ways" thing, Rent.

I don't care what anyone else uses.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Steve Richards said:


> The "professionals" around here irritate me sometimes too.
> 
> You go girl :thumbsup:


It's a girl?


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

researchhound said:


> Pretty soon Behr will be a banned word on PT due to the issues it causes. We'll be spelling it Bare, Bear, Behhr, Bearh, Beehr, etc, ettc, etcc...


Now _thats_ an idea. :yes:


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## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

Steve Richards said:


> I bid a house last week..the HOs were obviously "home depot people".(they kept talking about going there to look at colors).
> 
> _In the contract I stated Ben Moore.
> 
> I'm probably not gonna get it._


 
NO shyt Sherlock ??? _Really ?_:whistling2::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::thumbsup:


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## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

chrisn said:


> _It's a girl?_




:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::tt2: whod a thunk it ?


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

TJ Paint said:


> I love the know-it-all guys that work behind the counter.
> 
> I just shut them up by saying, "I think I'll stick with coverstain, the reason I came in here. Since it's worked for me for the last thousand gallons..."


 You would love to know or you love the know?:blink:


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

researchhound said:


> Pretty soon Behr will be a banned word on PT due to the issues it causes. We'll be spelling it Bare, Bear, Behhr, Bearh, Beehr, etc, ettc, etcc...


 Weve behrly scratch the surface!


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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

jack pauhl said:


> Having seen some very impressive results from using BEHR paints at near half BM pricing, I could run more profitable with BEHR, no brainer. 2:1 If you haven't seen the BEHR finish photos, take a look at the album. No one on this board has posted anything like it nor have I been able to replicate those finishes with any other product. Came very close with ADVANCE but again, much more expensive paint and required more screwing around to pull it off. There is video of it too.
> 
> Spec on Aura is 400 sq ft with a wet film of 4.3, dry 2.0 so if you run Aura thinner than that--then you are reducing spec and posting 800 sq ft per gal tells me that the paint is being applied at half of spec and ULTRA could be reduced to do the same at 2:1 pricing of Aura.
> 
> ...


I was in HD the other day and wasn't all that impressed with their prices on Behr. I don't find they give contractors much of a discount but I could be wrong. I can get a much better deal with Dulux paint.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Westview said:


> I was in HD the other day and wasn't all that impressed with their prices on Behr. I don't find they give contractors much of a discount but I could be wrong. I can get a much better deal with Dulux paint.


I'm on their Gold Level tier pricing but also have volume pricing. ULTRA Exterior is $26.56 per gal then about a buck more per sheen up. Home Depot doesn't stick 62.99 on their paints and put contractors in a position to haggle 60% off like a certain other PS does. 

We've been using the Premium Plus Flat and Satin quite a bit lately. 

My price is $17.12 on Flat to $25.58 for ULTRA Flat Enamel. Almost everything we paint with Premium Plus looks 99% covered if not fully covered in one coat. ULTRA is obviously better.

We've been quoted lower on Glidden too but you are not getting the same capabilities in product. Over and over their Diamond 350 Flat is taking 4 coats on deep colors. That by no means is acceptable. 350 is their top of the line wall paint. For $26 I'll gladly take BEHR for the peace of mind in knowing I won't be 3 coating anything like some Aura users are. Some of those guys are sticking tinted base coats under Aura and still doing 2 coats Yeah. No... not me, thats unacceptable for a paint priced like that. 

My paint line up today is BEHR only and no substitutes.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Westview said:


> I was in HD the other day and wasn't all that impressed with their prices on Behr. I don't find they give contractors much of a discount but I could be wrong. I can get a much better deal with Dulux paint.


 West-point of view.:whistling2:


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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

mudbone said:


> West-point of view.:whistling2:


I'm from Canada. Go to www.homedepot.ca and check out the prices. Keep in mind, some of the prices are for quarts not gallons. Please tell me if I'm missing something here. Home depot offered me a 10% discount which is not much.

Behr Premium Plus interior eggshell goes for $37 per gallon. I don't want to spend that much on paint. I can get Dulux lifemaster for $25 and it's great paint. Maybe the premium plus is better paint? I have no idea.


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## PaintingContractorNJ (May 10, 2012)

Honestly, Sherwin Williams and Benjamin Moore are like 2 over priced hookers! 
I will take Behr Premium @ $25 per gallon vs. the Hookers @ $50 a gallon any day of the week. 

I can give my customer a better price and actually get the job! :thumbup:


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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

jack pauhl said:


> I'm on their Gold Level tier pricing but also have volume pricing. ULTRA Exterior is $26.56 per gal then about a buck more per sheen up. Home Depot doesn't stick 62.99 on their paints and put contractors in a position to haggle 60% off like a certain other PS does.
> 
> We've been using the Premium Plus Flat and Satin quite a bit lately.
> 
> ...


If I could get the prices you get, I would switch to behr too. I spoke with one of their service reps and they wanted me to sign up for a HD credit card. I am not a fan of this. I don't understand why they wont give me good rates without signing up for a card. I have enough credit cards and I don't want anymore.


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## pucks101 (Mar 29, 2012)

I have to go in to HD to get supplies. Everything they sell at the BM store is double the price. I use Purdy brushes, they sell Wooster. So I have to go in there for other stuff. So, A few years ago, I had a project on my house. Couple rooms and some exterior trim. I used Premium Plus Interior (didn't have the Ultra for interior yet). It worked fine- not great but ok. I used flat white wall paint on ceilings, loved it. Eggshell bedroom and family room - took 3 coats, and one wall had to reprime and repaint 2 more cots (but I had enough paint) and satin in bathroom. I even did one wal in bathroom with True Value's Easy Care Satin- that paint was easy to apply. For exterior I used the Ultra, and it went on thick, couple drips, not too many, other than that I felt it covered nicely. I am now 5-7 years later and all of the rooms are showing more wear than I think they would if I stayed with Ben Moore Regal Classic, which is only a couple bucks more per can. Some paint is faded, couple little bubbles, had some windows paint shut that were left open to dry for 2 days, so I now have to patch some wooden sills. Colors are pretty good but they are fading slightly. The exterior, a little fade after a few years, so no big problem. Is the more expensive exterior better? Probably, but if I repaint my trim every 5 years, which I do, maybe it doesn't matter if we're only talking about fading. I have no problems with peeling or anything like that.
My opinion- if a DIYer wants to use Behr, go for it, its good paint for the cost and you may not care about the extra time you put into it. I hear some pros are using it now, so I think it must be at least "pretty good" for them. If you're a pro, and you've found the touch, and it's working for you, I say, great- go for it. 

I don't think its good enough to be my first choice but I don't despise the stuff - could be I"m just not good enough with it, to stand behind it and warranty it, so I still prefer Ben Moore Regal. But I don't get the outright hatred some people have for it. To me, it's just another brand. And I think better than many other brands, like Valspar (Lowes), Dutchboy (actually, a SW product), Easy Living (Sears). And I mentioned before, I thought the inexpensive Easy Care from True Value was pretty good too, but I don't yet know how long it lasts yet because it's only been up for 3 years. 
By the way, I used MAB exclusively for about 10 years (started about 20 years ago) and I loved it. Until they got too expensive and didn't want to offer discount pricing, which is when I switched to Ben Moore. This sounds like what many people complain about SW, which isn't surprising as SW took over MAB....
I personally hope people keep using the other brands because if everyone used SW & BM only, they'd end up with a pretty big monopoly, and kill us all on pricing. Competition breeds better products, too.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

PaintingContractorNJ said:


> Honestly, Sherwin Williams and Benjamin Moore are like 2 over priced hookers!
> I will take Behr Premium @ $25 per gallon vs. the Hookers @ $50 a gallon any day of the week.
> 
> I can give my customer a better price and actually get the job! :thumbup:


So how would you get the job if everybody used the same paint at the same cost and you were the same price as everybody else?

If we are talking about wall paint, I could potentially entertain the idea, except I see this stuff sold at around $30+. 

I have stuff already around this price point anyway. 

There are many times where I need other products or the customer demands what behr cannot offer (zero voc).


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## pucks101 (Mar 29, 2012)

TJ Paint said:


> So how would you get the job if everybody used the same paint at the same cost and you were the same price as everybody else?
> 
> If we are talking about wall paint, I could potentially entertain the idea, except I see this stuff sold at around $30+.
> 
> ...


I think they now also offering no VOC paints- I just saw a premium plus interior satin gallon labeled "no VOC"; it was an "oops" can sitting on the counter, so I
don't know how much of a selection there is...


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

PaintingContractorNJ said:


> Honestly, Sherwin Williams and Benjamin Moore are like 2 over priced hookers!
> I will take Behr Premium @ $25 per gallon vs. the Hookers @ $50 a gallon any day of the week.
> 
> I can give my customer a better price and actually get the job! :thumbup:


here is what I think about this whole subject


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## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

I think we need a bear ban, close the season so to speak


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Behr does the job well. Have also used a fair amount of P&L gold and Diamond Vogel permacryl. Tired of paying higher prices at sw and ben. Though we still use ben's oils. Cant beat it.


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## TERRY365PAINTER (Jul 26, 2009)

I like Behr for interiors but exterior stuff , I am not convinced yet ! I would need my own proof like 
Putting a deep red Behr over builders flat for the first time .


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## PaintingContractorNJ (May 10, 2012)

chrisn said:


> here is what I think about this whole subject


:tongue_smilie:


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## PaintingContractorNJ (May 10, 2012)

TJ Paint said:


> So how would you get the job if everybody used the same paint at the same cost and you were the same price as everybody else?
> 
> If we are talking about wall paint, I could potentially entertain the idea, except I see this stuff sold at around $30+.
> 
> ...


Behr ZERO VOC Specs:


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## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

PaintingContractorNJ said:


> Behr ZERO VOC Specs:


Oooooh giving me goose bumbs !.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

My typical HD experience: walk up to the paint desk, no one is there. Or there is one employee and 12 customers waiting in line. Ask for advice, get something like "Kilz work great on everything!". Look for sundries, find incomplete product lines and inferior products.

I will stick to Moore's, charge a premium over the price difference and make more money on every job, using a paint I love to work with, from a store I love to shop at.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> My typical HD experience: walk up to the paint desk, no one is there. Or there is one employee and 12 customers waiting in line. Ask for advice, get something like "Kilz work great on everything!". Look for sundries, find incomplete product lines and inferior products.
> 
> I will stick to Moore's, charge a premium over the price difference and make more money on every job, using a paint I love to work with, from a store I love to shop at.


This.

You said it all Excel.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Scotiadawg said:


> Oooooh giving me goose bumbs !.


 Behr bumps!:thumbsup:


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## PaintingContractorNJ (May 10, 2012)

tntpainting said:


> Just for the,hell ofit i tried the new glidden duo line ,not bad stuff and ill use it again at 22 bucks a gal beats what was eatin up my profits lately lol


You should try the Glidden ceiling paint, that goes on Pink and drys white.
Great visibility while rolling!


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

Just don't spray it


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## PaintingContractorNJ (May 10, 2012)

Workaholic said:


> If you have the customers buy the paint too that will save more eating of profits. :jester:


Sometimes letting the customer buy the paint can be a problem. They either buy total crap paint or not enough paint. And I know you can tell them how much paint to buy, but if you tell them a gallon over, they may be pissed at you for getting stuck with an unused gallon of paint...


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Groan... without a doubt the subject of Behr and Home Depot has been the most vehemently and persistently discussed topic I've seen on PT since I became an active participant last year. It's bloody and apparently lifeless corpse is regular disinterred, put on public display to be reviled or worshiped, and then gets quietly dragged away to be temporarily reburied for a time. Eventually, however, someone once again gets a hold of a shovel.

Let's face it, in spite of all the talk, peoples' minds aren't going to be changed. If you like Behr now and think it's a good deal and the salvation of your company, no hater is going to change your mind. For the haters, all the positive observations in the world aren't going to get you to start using it on a regular basis.

I suspect that deep down inside the guys using it feel a bit uncomfortable because they think it does negatively affect their professional image. Likewise, the haters don't really hate it all that much but still won't consider using it out of principle and stubbornness. So, emotions continue to flare and endless opinions are put forth every time it's brought up again.

I know I've really gotten to where I don't care anymore (not that I ever did) and I'll exercise my free will and avoid these threads from now on. Others can carry on the crusade as they wish, but for me I say bring on something new and original - like, "What's the best brush for cutting in?"


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Plain and simple, my penis felt half size whenever I've gone into HD and bought paint. Plus it usually takes longer to procure the materials than my goto stores.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

You might want to schedule a stop off afterwards at a _Hooters_ for a burger and a beverage to feel like a man again. :yes:


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## PaintingContractorNJ (May 10, 2012)

IMO, Benjamin Moore & Sherwin Williams are extremely over priced paints. "You are paying for the 'name' their over head costs and the hype". 

*I wouldn't be surprised if Behr paints are made by Sherwin Williams, with a Behr label slapped on it!* Wouldn't that be a pisser?


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## StripandCaulk (Dec 30, 2011)

PaintingContractorNJ said:


> IMO, Benjamin Moore & Sherwin Williams are extremely over priced paints. "You are paying for the 'name' their over head costs and the hype".
> 
> *I wouldn't be surprised if Behr paints are made by Sherwin Williams, with a Behr label slapped on it!* Wouldn't that be a pisser?


 
I totally agree with you, name, over head costs, hype and avoiding all the clowns at the HD. Not having to be hassled by a dozen guys outside that dont speak english and are looking for word and point at you paint like a bunch of morons. 

Behr and Home Depot have revolutionized the painting industry. Its a one stop shop for paint and cheap labor. You can walk in, load up your truck with some 5/hr guys and blow out a house in one day. :thumbsup:


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