# To use a tray or not



## ewingpainting.net

PatsPainting said:


> 1,) no washing - One they cost money, fives don't - takes just a few minutes to wash out a bucket, or leave it in the sun for a day and peel it out.
> 
> 2,) easy color change - I just grab anther bucket
> 
> 3,no messy cleanup, well you have to dispose of them somewhere, never had any issues on cleaning out a five.
> 
> 4,) far less chunks in the paint compared to a 5'er. I don't seem to have this issue. Seems to me it would be pretty difficult to use a 5 gallon straining bag on a tray.
> 
> Pat



I've never understood the use of the tray either. I think of trying to move it while it has paint in it. Awkward! I'm starting to wonder if its a geographic thing and how ones been trained. Paint contractors I have been taught by/worked for have never taught me to use a tray nor have I ever seen them use one. It's like a joke here in California. I remember a guy telling me he had his own tools. When he walked up to the job with a roller and tray. The crew of 6 made him the laughing joke. I made him as a inexperienced painter even as my employees did too.


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## PatsPainting

ewingpainting.net said:


> I've never understood the use of the tray either. I think of trying to move it while it has paint in it. Awkward! I'm starting to wonder if its a geographic thing and how ones been trained. Paint contractors I have been taught by/worked for have never taught me to use a tray nor have I ever seen them use one. It's like a joke here in California. I remember a guy telling me he had his own tools. When he walked up to the job with a roller and tray. The crew of 6 made him the laughing joke. I made him as a inexperienced painter even as my employees did too.


I'm thinking on the same line as you Gabe, must be a geographic thing. This goes way back, I can remember painting with a buddy 10-12 years ago and some guy dropped off a flyer for paint work. It had a picture of a paint tray on it. Me and buddy would prank call the guy, asking about his paint tray. Its just been a painters type joke here as long as I can remember.

Pat


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## ewingpainting.net

LMAO :lol:


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## VanDamme

For commercial work, I ALWAYS used a 5 and grid.

For residential, I use pans w/liners and love 'em!


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## Wolfgang

You know things are slow here when you have a poll on using trays. I used trays quite a bit doing ins. resto work - a wall here, a wall there, all in different colors. Spot priming and rolling with oil, BIN, Kilz. Numerous small jobs in one day. Etc.. I'd also have numerous brushes and rollers going in the course of a day that would be cleaned when I got back to the shop or home. Everybody has their own preferences, the right tool/equip for the job. Does that make them any less of a pro?


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## Dave Mac

I want Scott an neps opionion on this one. What we really need to know is when you using a tray do you whear jeans or whites. lol


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## DeanV

For most of my interior jobs, I am using 2-3 gallons of one color, 1-2 of another, 4 gallons of this color, 1 gallon of that color. I never buy wall paint in 5's. To use a 5'er would be a TON of washing out time and the dried/partially dried paint on the sides of the 5'er is a mess to deal with in a residential setting. Using trays, we almost never have any bits of dried latex to pull off the walls.

Need another color? Spend 10 seconds putting the extra paint back into a can and thrown down a new tray liner. Want to reuse the tray liners? set them aside to dry. Want to toss them? stack them together and no mess to throw away.

For residential work, holding 3/4 of a gallon in a tray is fine. This is not commercial work where we are throwing paint at the wall with a big nappy ghetto roller. If I want producton, I am more likely to use a wooster bucket and an 18" roller but 18's are too big for many residential rooms and you cannot roll as tight or work the roller well around built-ins, windows, and other trim.

Some 5'ers just do not wash out well from the dried paint (white buckets in my area do not wash or peel as well as the black, but few manufacturers used the black buckets). 

I find when I used a 5'er and grid on exterior, there are a lot of dried film issues from the paint on the inside of the bucket that can be okay on exterior rough cedar, but would not fly on an interior. When you use a tray, the ramp is staying wet from constant use. With a 5, the inside of the bucket builds up with dried paint since the grid is what is getting rolled on. 

If a painter showed up on my jobs with a 5'er and grid, I would assume he does apartment painting or commercial work and has no experience in higher end residential work.


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## StefanC

DeanV said:


> For residential work, holding 3/4 of a gallon in a tray is fine. This is not commercial work where we are throwing paint at the wall with a big nappy ghetto roller. If I want producton, I am more likely to use a wooster bucket and an 18" roller but 18's are too big for many residential rooms and you cannot roll as tight or work the roller well around built-ins, windows, and other trim.


We do mostly high-end NC and res. The speed we get out of an 18" can't be touched by a 9"er. As for the edges and corners, most of the cut is dry rolled with a whizz to help blend the cut n roll, it actually blends better then a 9". Doesn't take much extra time either.


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## Roadog

"If a painter showed up on my jobs with a 5'er and grid, I would assume he does apartment painting or commercial work and has no experience in higher end residential work."


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## bikerboy

There are occasions where using a tray makes sense. I just rarely encounter them. Would think most pro's here probably have a large assortment of all application tools and use them as the situation requires. There is no, "most of the time choice" so I pick the tray because once or twice a year......


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## Roadog

And I think what Bikerboy says just about wraps it up. I got all the stuff.....just depends on the job/situation. I am however evolving and find myself going to 12 or 18 inch sleeves for certain increased production which dont work with the 5s.


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## CK_68847

If you want an easier faster roll get rid of the grid and the 9 inch roller. Go to the 14 inch roller. It will save you a lot of time, and it rolls out better. It does require a tray, but in the end you will wonder why you ever used a 9 inch roller on walls. I know there are somettimes a 9 inch roller is more convinent if you are doing a small job, but just give the 14 inch roller a try.


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## bikerboy

CK_68847 said:


> If you want an easier faster roll get rid of the grid and the 9 inch roller. Go to the 14 inch roller. It will save you a lot of time, and it rolls out better. It does require a tray, but in the end you will wonder why you ever used a 9 inch roller on walls. I know there are somettimes a 9 inch roller is more convinent if you are doing a small job, but just give the 14 inch roller a try.


Wooster gave us 3, 14" frames and pads to try out. We use them in the same bucket as the 18". I really like these. You still get increased production, the open end of the frame lets you get close to the corners and the increased length helps to reduce fat edges ( or trails, or wheel marks whatever you call them.)


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## johnpaint

I do a lot of accent walls where you have one two or three gallons of paint to use. We all know if you try to pour 1 gallon into a fiver you really can't roll out of it very well, and if you want to get to the last drop of paint you can't, so you guy's must not be painting any accent walls that I can see if your using fivers.If you are then whats your secrete.


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## PatsPainting

johnpaint said:


> I do a lot of accent walls where you have one two or three gallons of paint to use. We all know if you try to pour 1 gallon into a fiver you really can't roll out of it very well, and if you want to get to the last drop of paint you can't, so you guy's must not be painting any accent walls that I can see if your using fivers.If you are then whats your secrete.



Not sure why your saying "We" I have no problems at all if there is a quart or 3 gallons in my five. Rolls the same. and getting the last drop is as simple as spinning the roller around the bottom a few times.

Pat


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## PatsPainting

also congrats on reaching 3500 posts


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## PatsPainting

DeanV said:


> If a painter showed up on my jobs with a 5'er and grid, I would assume he does apartment painting or commercial work and has no experience in higher end residential work.


See this has to be geographic type of thing, I would think the same thing if a guy showed up with trays. Which makes this thread a little more interesting then talking about whats better, pan or bucket. Maybe its not a geographic deal and it has to do who your painting hero's were when you were learning. I'm pretty sure we all have one if not a few of these guys who we really looked up and tried to pick their brains when we first started. For me it was a few old timers.

I will say this, if some guy drops off a flyer with a paint tray on it on a job I'm working at, I might think twice now before crank calling him. I know you guys that are using paint trays in this thread are good at what you do. But I doubt I will ever use one. I still just don't see any benefits on using em. I know you have stated a few, but for some reason I don't have those issues.

Pat


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## ewingpainting.net

I don't think if you use a tray or not determines if you are a "high end" painter or not. It baffled me when I 1st came to PT finding out how many painters do use them. I do High end work, done homes a mill up. Like I said I think its a geographic thing. Most painters in southern California, that I know of. Just don't use them, none to be exact. Its not a bad thing if you do or don't. I was more curious in the poll than your feed back. Just cause I know these topics turn into a pissing match. "I'm better cause I use a tray" or "I'm better cause I use a 5er"  who gives a sh!t? As long as your producing quality work while making a profit, the method is irrelevant if you are. 14" 18" rollers I've never dreamed of using either. But again who cares if you or I are achieving the same results. I never owned a tray nor will this thread make me start using them. Its what you've been accustom too. And that's fine :thumbsup:
.
I would like to add a thought about the "only 3 gal" jobs. Those using trays, do you mix all the paint together? I always mix all my singles of the same color since the color can very from gal to gal. Or are you just reloading your tray without mixing it all together?


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## Roadog

Define "high end". I dont think that because a home cost a mil. or more makes that high end painting. I've walked into many Mc Mansions that were obviously done by the lowest bidder. I have always considered high end as "detailed".....smooth and flawless. prepped to the hilt! No matter the cost of the building. Just my opinion.


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## ewingpainting.net

Roadog said:


> Define "high end". I dont think that because a home cost a mil. or more makes that high end painting. I've walked into many Mc Mansions that were obviously done by the lowest bidder. I have always considered high end as "detailed".....smooth and flawless. prepped to the hilt! No matter the cost of the building. Just my opinion.


So because you use a pan, that makes you more detailed? My point was I have done and am doing "high end" work acording to your standards. Just because one does or doesn't use a pan. Doesn't make them any more qualified than the other.


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## CApainter

What's the best way to hang those trays on a ladder?

I've used trays, but I'm more comfortable with a five gallon bucket. As clumbsy as I am, I'd step in one of those trays, or spill paint all over trying to move it.

You tray guys just have more finesse I guess.


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## BC_Painter

CApainter said:


> What's the best way to hang those trays on a ladder?
> 
> I've used trays, but I'm more comfortable with a five gallon bucket. As clumbsy as I am, I'd step in one of those trays, or spill paint all over trying to move it.
> 
> You tray guys just have more finesse I guess.



I've never taken a 5er up a ladder, even when using them.

Usually the amount do do from high on a ladder is small enough that taking the bucket up and down is too much of a hastle anyways, and I'll do most of my rolling from the ground.

The first time I put a grid in a 5 for an enterior I was just about laughed off, now I can't imagine doing it any other way unless it's NC or Commercial work, just because of the amount of paint used.

I think this is the main factor for me, if I was CONSTANTLY dumping new paint in a tray it would take more time and be inefficient, however since I only have a couple gallons of a particular colour max on a typical job, usually less, trays and tray liners make the work quicker and cleanup quicker as well. 

Long poles are easier with trays too. I usually use wooster buckets on NC and Commercial these days because of the ease of rolling with longer poles.

I don't discriminate based on how you hold your paint, just how efficiently and cleanly it's applied, and the prep done beforehand :thumbup:


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## Roadog

Ladders...? You use ladders? You mean you cut out of a 5? LOL...on a ladder. On the east coast we use extension poles. Real high, I bring out the bakers and stack as needed.


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## CApainter

BC_Painter said:


> I've never taken a 5er up a ladder, even when using them.
> 
> Usually the amount do do from high on a ladder is small enough that taking the bucket up and down is too much of a hastle anyways, and I'll do most of my rolling from the ground.
> 
> The first time I put a grid in a 5 for an enterior I was just about laughed off, now I can't imagine doing it any other way unless it's NC or Commercial work, just because of the amount of paint used.
> 
> I think this is the main factor for me, if I was CONSTANTLY dumping new paint in a tray it would take more time and be inefficient, however since I only have a couple gallons of a particular colour max on a typical job, usually less, trays and tray liners make the work quicker and cleanup quicker as well.
> 
> Long poles are easier with trays too. I usually use wooster buckets on NC and Commercial these days because of the ease of rolling with longer poles.
> 
> I don't discriminate based on how you hold your paint, just how efficiently and cleanly it's applied, and the prep done beforehand :thumbup:


Good point about a long roller pole being easier to maneuver in a tray.


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## CApainter

Roadog said:


> Ladders...? You use ladders? You mean you cut out of a 5? LOL...on a ladder. On the east coast we use extension poles. Real high, I bring out the bakers and stack as needed.


I'm too bored to go into details. Bye!


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## johnpaint

It's just what you get use to, I can go ether way I guess.


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## johnpaint

Remember guy's to try not to limit yourselves to one way or the other in any method of whatever your trying to do. I have been proven wrong many times and I have adapted and it's been better for me. I remember I use to use angle sash brushes all the time, now I might have one in my truck.I worked with a guy a few years ago that never used them and I picked up on it, now I don't look back, but hey that's me.


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## VanDamme

Here's what I use









And if that breaks down, I have a backup


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## Dbo

I use a tray more than a 5. I have trays that hold 3/4 gal to trays that hold almost 2 gals. Bigger ones are nice for larger ceilings and walls. 5ers just seem to be to messy in a residential setting for me. I also use tray liners because of all the color changing. Toss them away when done. How do you use a 5er when rolling two story walls with a extension pole? Seems to me like it would be a pain in the ass.


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## PatsPainting

Dbo said:


> How do you use a 5er when rolling two story walls with a extension pole? Seems to me like it would be a pain in the ass.


It's extremely easy.

Pat


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## mistcoat

CApainter said:


> *What's the best way to hang those trays on a ladder?*
> 
> I've used trays, but I'm more comfortable with a five gallon bucket. As clumbsy as I am, I'd step in one of those trays, or spill paint all over trying to move it.
> 
> You tray guys just have more finesse I guess.


CA, you need to see the YT clip. You'll pi55 yer pants... I promise














I cringe everytime I see the clip. I am gonna do a tool swap with Sean on this one :whistling2:


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## ewingpainting.net

mistcoat said:


> CA, you need to see the YT clip. You'll pi55 yer pants... I promise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cringe everytime I see the clip. I am gonna do a tool swap with Sean on this one :whistling2:


Tim do you think that will work with my Kilt? I'm thinking the straps might not work with the belt


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## chrisn

Wow, is you're paint all that thick?Looked like thick molasses coming out of the can


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## mistcoat

chrisn said:


> Wow, is you're paint all that thick?Looked like thick molasses coming out of the can


The Johnstone's (PPG) at .56 seconds is that thick. The Crown Paints is not as thick (the paint in the tray before you saw Johnstone's PPG). It is made for the Trade and to be thinnable. If you bought Crown from a DIY store, it would be like cats pi55 to apply.

The trade stuff is easy to apply, as it goes. Tho' for cutting in, a slight thin down is always best :thumbsup:
As you know yerself


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## mistcoat

ewingpainting.net said:


> Tim do you think that will work with my Kilt? I'm thinking the straps might not work with the belt


I reckon it will work good. At least you won't have to bend over to load your roller up and end up showing your Sporran to the lasses.


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## CApainter

After seeing that clip, I'm pretty sure I'll be using my five gallon bucket from here on out.

And I would of pizzed my pants, but the Trichloroethylene has made me too self conscious about my bladder to be spontaneous.


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## TheRogueBristle

I didn't vote, because I use both depending on the application. Is that so strange? I think we all do this. 

If using a gallon or so of paint it makes no sense to pour whatever you aren't using to cut in into a five. There's more waste when it dries on the sides of the bucket, it's harder to clean the leftover out of the bucket, etc. Also, I hate when you get down to a half gallon of less in the bottom of the five and its hard to load the roller quickly, cause there's such a shallow layer of paint at the bottom. 

By all means if I need a couple or more gallons on the same color I'll use a fiver and a grid. It's easier and I actually prefer it. 

But,I really just don't get the stigma of using a deep roller tray. Are the guys that refuse to use trays the same that have 10 cyliner diesel trucks as paint vehicles as well?


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## ewingpainting.net

Then it would be Yes


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## ewingpainting.net

And no, my trucks runs on unleaded gas with 8 cylinders.


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## TheRogueBristle

I would've figured 3 cylinders and Biodiesel. :jester:

And I threw in a yes for ya. :thumbsup:


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## dvp

i find this paint forum fascinating and strangely compelling. i have never used a tray or even seen one on a job site before, but aparently they are quite popular. is this an east coast-west coast thing?


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## hammerheart14

Pans suck. I don't like the fact of moving them ,very akward. In my area, the pros make fun of the trays, calling it a "homeowner" thing. And there is not much commercial work where i live, so I sell one 18"" roller frame every four years. Whatever floats you boat though.


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## Scottclarkpainting

Wow, We only use trays here in Australia. We use a hooded plastic tray which holds 4 l of paint thats about a gallon.

http://www.paintaccess.com.au/products/oldfields-polypropylene-hooded-heavy-duty-tray-1


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## clammer

One time i was painting a bedroom with a tray left it on the floor and went to lunch.While i was gone the owners cat had walked in the tray paint and footprints were all over the place not something you have to worry about with a 5er.I use both so i picked yes.


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## Last Craftsman

DeanV said:


> For most of my interior jobs, I am using 2-3 gallons of one color, 1-2 of another, 4 gallons of this color, 1 gallon of that color. I never buy wall paint in 5's. To use a 5'er would be a TON of washing out time and the dried/partially dried paint on the sides of the 5'er is a mess to deal with in a residential setting. Using trays, we almost never have any bits of dried latex to pull off the walls.
> 
> Need another color? Spend 10 seconds putting the extra paint back into a can and thrown down a new tray liner. Want to reuse the tray liners? set them aside to dry. Want to toss them? stack them together and no mess to throw away.
> 
> For residential work, holding 3/4 of a gallon in a tray is fine. This is not commercial work where we are throwing paint at the wall with a big nappy ghetto roller. If I want producton, I am more likely to use a wooster bucket and an 18" roller but 18's are too big for many residential rooms and you cannot roll as tight or work the roller well around built-ins, windows, and other trim.
> 
> Some 5'ers just do not wash out well from the dried paint (white buckets in my area do not wash or peel as well as the black, but few manufacturers used the black buckets).
> 
> I find when I used a 5'er and grid on exterior, there are a lot of dried film issues from the paint on the inside of the bucket that can be okay on exterior rough cedar, but would not fly on an interior. When you use a tray, the ramp is staying wet from constant use. With a 5, the inside of the bucket builds up with dried paint since the grid is what is getting rolled on.
> 
> If a painter showed up on my jobs with a 5'er and grid, I would assume he does apartment painting or commercial work and has no experience in higher end residential work.



^^^^^^

YUP.

I just posted most of these same sentiments in a different thread, didn't realize this topic was going on over here.

It always cracks me up when somehow people think that trays are actually not pro, but that grids are pro.

I personally don't judge anyone for using a tray or a grid/bucket, to me it depends on the application.

But definitely for precision smooth wall, tray is key to keep the roller from being all lumpy and F'd up.

But even on huge square footage textured walls, I wont even use a 5 gallon bucket any more. I will use the wooster 18 inch roller bucket.

I refuse to completely invert the roller poll every single time I load the roller.


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## ewingpainting.net

Who said their not pro? I never posted such a thing. There was a time I thought that. But that wa BPT.


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## Last Craftsman

ewingpainting.net said:


> Who said their not pro?


Not you specifically, just in general.


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## AztecPainting

Ever since I started painting I have used only trays with tray liners. I have seen other companies using buckets, I wouldn't say a bucket isn't as professional as a tray, I just think that for the 59 cents I pay for each tray liner is more cost effective than having one of my guys or myself cleaning buckets... What about if it is not water around? Or a place to clean them at the job site? Also tray liners can be use many times and keep on rolling your 59 cents....


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## johnpaint

AztecPainting said:


> Ever since I started painting I have used only trays with tray liners. I have seen other companies using buckets, I wouldn't say a bucket isn't as professional as a tray, I just think that for the 59 cents I pay for each tray liner is more cost effective than having one of my guys or myself cleaning buckets... What about if it is not water around? Or a place to clean them at the job site? Also tray liners can be use many times and keep on rolling your 59 cents....


Yeah, but Azt you have not worked long enough to understand the art of using a fiver. Maybe in a few years you will. we will pray for you until then. you know I'm kidding don't you, I'm on your side.


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## Harry

johnpaint said:


> Yeah, but Azt you have not worked long enough to understand the art of using a fiver. Maybe in a few years you will. we will pray for you until then. you know I'm kidding don't you, I'm on your side.


There is no comparison between a tray and a fiver. If you have crap in your paint, that's your fault...folow the rules and you'll be fine. I proved this to a few guys and they're production went right up...

Yes, I do believe there are times when we should use trays...


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## johnpaint

Harry said:


> There is no comparison between a tray and a fiver. If you have crap in your paint, that's your fault...folow the rules and you'll be fine. I proved this to a few guys and they're production went right up...
> 
> Yes, I do believe there are times when we should use trays...


What a thousand times are you talking about? Do you know what paint even smells like?


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## AztecPainting

Harry said:


> There is no comparison between a tray and a fiver. If you have crap in your paint, that's your fault...folow the rules and you'll be fine. I proved this to a few guys and they're production went right up...
> 
> Yes, I do believe there are times when we should use trays...


If I have crap in my paint I use a strainer, I always have some in my tools...


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## ewingpainting.net

Do you strain your paint into a tray?


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## johnpaint

ewingpainting.net said:


> Do you strain your paint into a tray?


Ewing, I really want you to try a tray, it will make you feel clean all over. lol


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## ewingpainting.net

ewingpainting.net said:


> Do you strain your paint into a tray?


I was serious about this question. How do you strain your paint? Do you have to clean a deuce or a 5er or do you strain it right into the tray?


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## johnpaint

Thats so funny.Ewing you have to try a try now, it will change your life.


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## AztecPainting

ewingpainting.net said:


> I was serious about this question. How do you strain your paint? Do you have to clean a deuce or a 5er or do you strain it right into the tray?


I always have clean empty one gallon cans in my truck or trailer on every job site for that purpose, those cans are free at the store. So we strain it into a one gallon can as we go, that way we make sure there are no boogers in da paint... It works for us.


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## ewingpainting.net

AztecPainting said:


> I always have clean empty one gallon cans in my truck or trailer on every job site for that purpose, those cans are free at the store. So we strain it into a one gallon can as we go, that way we make sure there are no boogers in da paint... It works for us.


Weird, we that use 5ers keep clean 5's too.


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## Last Craftsman

ewingpainting.net said:


> I was serious about this question. How do you strain your paint? Do you have to clean a deuce or a 5er or do you strain it right into the tray?


I don't know who this question was to, but I will answer.

I almost never have to strain my paint.

Occasionally 5's have crud in them that gallons don't seem to have. Other than that, I only strain paint the HO gives me to touch up something for them in a paint can last used my someone other than myself.


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## AztecPainting

ewingpainting.net said:


> Weird, we that use 5ers keep clean 5's too.


No weird. I think everyone has preferences that work. It's called Diversity isn't it...


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## PatsPainting

AztecPainting said:


> No weird. I think everyone has preferences that work. It's called Diversity isn't it...


Yep, something I'm finding out the more I read here at PT.

Pat


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## VanDamme

This is a deck job I do every few years. I originally sprayed it with Cabots solid acrylic stain 5 or 6 years ago. 2 years ago I rolled another coat on the horizontal surfaces. Just doing the horizontals again this time, and thought the Cabots was wearing faster than I thought it should. This time around I'm using Sikkens Rubbol solid acrylic.










BUT! The cool thing is I used a 5'er and a grid today! I feel so professional Haha!










No if I can just stop myself from wearing my homemade cutoffs and my "Metallica Rocks" shirt I'd really look professional!


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## bikerboy

VanDamme said:


> No if I can just stop myself from wearing my homemade cutoffs and my "Metallica Rocks" shirt I'd really look professional!


Then you'd look "too expensive" and scare away the price shoppers! :jester:


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## ewingpainting.net

AztecPainting said:


> No weird. I think everyone has preferences that work. It's called Diversity isn't it...


I was just trying to make a point that if you use a tray, you have to clean out buckets too. I know to each their own and I respect that. :notworthy:


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## johnpaint

ewingpainting.net said:


> I was just trying to make a point that if you use a tray, you have to clean out buckets too. I know to each their own and I respect that. :notworthy:


They should make liners for buckets to.


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## ewingpainting.net

I don't know what you tray users are painting. For the most part, I don't need to switch colors through out a day. Once were in a color, we're usually in that color all day. If we do need to switch colors we just grab another clean empty 5er or deuce. I have stacks of both in my shop. So I never run out.


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## Last Craftsman

ewingpainting.net said:


> I don't know what you tray users are painting. For the most part, I don't need to switch colors through out a day. Once were in a color, we're usually in that color all day. If we do need to switch colors we just grab another clean empty 5er or deuce. I have stacks of both in my shop. So I never run out.



This is a good example of how different people's projects affect an answer to what is the best srategy.

If you are doing repaints in old homes with several different colors, and multiple stages going on with different amounts of prep in different colored areas etc, it winds up being advantageous to have multiple colors going at once.

Like Wolfgang said, sometimes having several brushes in different colors at the SAME time.

If you get done painting a coat of one color, and you are waiting for that color to dry, and you want to paint a second or even 3rd color, what do you do?

You could leave the liner, the roller, and the brush IN THE color instead of cleaning all of that out, then later that day, come back when you want to put a second coat on and instantly be painting without any having to have cleaned all that stuff out and setting it up again.

And often it happens that certain areas of the house using the same color will be getting painted at different times, that happens for a multitude of reasons.

So a roller and tray liner stay IN THE PAINT until the job is done.

3 colors? 3 rollers, 3 tray liners.

But whenever I have been doing new construction or large remodels it has always been more like what you are referring to. Either one color for massive amounts of wall space, and you are in the same color for days on end.

Or maybe a couple colors spread out ver the job. But still always in new construction and large building remodels there is always less juggling of stages of prep and paint, and the space is wide open and you can do things more sequentially.

When working in an occupied residence, with lots of colors it often doesn't work out that you get to just have the entire space to yourself to sequence the most effective way for the paintjob, but often you are sequencing around things that the customer needs. Often you are finishing some spaces so that the customer can then move from one part of the house to the finished part, then you can work on the space they were in before.

Trays and tray liners work good when you don't want to be cleaning equipment a whole bunch of unecessary times. Why spend time cleaning something when you don't have to?


----------



## Last Craftsman

ewingpainting.net said:


> I was just trying to make a point that if you use a tray, you have to clean out buckets too. I know to each their own and I respect that. :notworthy:


Not me, I almost never clean buckets.

I pour straight from the 5 or gallon into the tray.

Done.

There is no bucket cleaning in that equation.

I don't even clean my cut buckets. I peel them.

No cleaning. Except brushes. Cleaning is the enemy. Well one of them.


----------



## VanDamme

johnpaint said:


> They should make liners for buckets to.


They do.


----------



## johnpaint

VanDamme said:


> They do.


Thats cool never seen them, do you have to order them? 
Are they hard ones or like a garbage bag?


----------



## VanDamme

johnpaint said:


> Thats cool never seen them, do you have to order them?
> Are they hard ones or like a garbage bag?


Have no idea, never used them.

A buddy of mine who works for a different painting co. uses them and used them on a job he helped me on for a couple of days.


----------



## Last Craftsman

johnpaint said:


> Thats cool never seen them, do you have to order them?
> Are they hard ones or like a garbage bag?



They are hard ones. And they cost $3.50. Almost as much as a 5 if you were to actually buy one that has never had paint in it.


----------



## ewingpainting.net

Last Craftsman said:


> They are hard ones. And they cost $3.50. Almost as much as a 5 if you were to actually buy one that has never had paint in it.


I would never buy one, just as I would never buy a empty 5 or a tray.


----------



## Last Craftsman

ewingpainting.net said:


> I would never buy one, just as I would never buy a empty 5 or a tray.


I would never buy a liner for a 5 either. Or a 5, seeing as how they come free when you buy 5 gallons of paint.



That was my point.


----------



## johnpaint

Last Craftsman said:


> I would never buy a liner for a 5 either. Or a 5, seeing as how they come free when you buy 5 gallons of paint.
> 
> 
> 
> That was my point.


Like I have to go to the dump today and drop off many empty ones filling up my garage.


----------



## johnpaint

If I lived in Calif desert maybe we could build some kind of structure with them to save energy or something.


----------



## CApainter

I think the tray has some advantages. No grid needed, better access for longer extension poles, even application of paint load on roller, etc.

However, I don't see how a painter can transport that tray around a job site as quickly as a five. I noticed this yesterday as I was rolling out some walls. I happened to have the five just outside the runner, on concrete. All I had to do was kick the five as I was moving along. I 'll do this if I'm on a slick surface. There's no way I could do that with a tray without spilling paint every where.

Also, when I dunk that roller in the five, I have plenty of paint to cover large areas at a time.

Bucket painters may not have the finesse of you tray guys, but I think our method has you beat on speed.

Do you guys use trays on exteriors too?


----------



## johnpaint

I think what you use is really what kind of painting you started doing when you first learned to paint, most apt / new const started with a bucket so they feel more cozy with that way. I feel buckets are too clumsey for most of my accent walls repaint, and I never dunk my roller all the way in the paint. I don't like paint on the ends of the roller at all.


----------



## CApainter

I think I'll pick up one of those deep dish trays and see if I become a convert.


----------



## johnpaint

CApainter said:


> I think I'll pick up one of those deep dish trays and see if I become a convert.


You know I could ride to work in a ford pinto , I would still get there, so it really little matters as long as the job is good when your done. Just use what you like, but those little ho trays are way out forsure.


----------



## ewingpainting.net

If I rolled up with a tray, my guys would be checking what was in my cigars. They be all like WTF the boss has lost it. Like John said I think it what your use too.


----------



## johnpaint

ewingpainting.net said:


> If I rolled up with a tray, my guys would be checking what was in my cigars. They be all like WTF the boss has lost it. Like John said I think it what your use too.


Yeah Ewing I understand, but think about it, the boss sets the tone for how the workers see things. If your guy's worked for me they would have a different understanding. If they did work for me and gave me a hard time then I would have to shut that down real fast.Not in a disrespectful way but a way that they know it is my way or the highway kind of thing, but again in some situations we would bring out the bucket.


----------



## TheRogueBristle

CApainter said:


> Do you guys use trays on exteriors too?


Trays on exteriors? Sorry, no. Gotta draw the line somewhere. :laughing:


I think a lot of it has to do with size of the job. A gallon or more of the same color, I'm going bucket. Thing is, most interior rooms require less than this.


----------



## StefanC

TheRogueBristle said:


> Trays on exteriors? Sorry, no. Gotta draw the line somewhere. :laughing:
> 
> 
> I think a lot of it has to do with size of the job. A gallon or more of the same color, I'm going bucket. Thing is, most interior rooms require _more_ than this.


Fixed


----------



## Last Craftsman

CApainter said:


> I think the tray has some advantages. No grid needed, better access for longer extension poles, even application of paint load on roller, etc.
> 
> However, I don't see how a painter can transport that tray around a job site as quickly as a five. I noticed this yesterday as I was rolling out some walls. I happened to have the five just outside the runner, on concrete. All I had to do was kick the five as I was moving along. I 'll do this if I'm on a slick surface. There's no way I could do that with a tray without spilling paint every where.
> 
> Also, when I dunk that roller in the five, I have plenty of paint to cover large areas at a time.
> 
> Bucket painters may not have the finesse of you tray guys, but I think our method has you beat on speed.
> 
> Do you guys use trays on exteriors too?


I use a sprayer on exteriors.

The thing is you only have to move the tray a few times in one room. 

I Roll from right to left. I set the tray to my right angling it so that as I move down the wall it will be positioned at the proper angle for me to put the roller right in the pan.

I move it maybe one or twice per wall depending on medium or large room.

I load the roller with as much paint as it can handle before dripping off, then I spin the roller a little when I am getting it up to the wall to prevent it from dripping.

Kind of like how a glass blower keeps their molten glass from falling off the punty.

Sometimes on large walls, I will just slide the drop with the tray on it.

But you do have to pick it up off the ground when you need to move from room to room etc, and that is more potential for accidents than having a nice handle to grab.

Don't forget about the wooster 18 inch buckets.

It's like using a 5, but is easier to get your roller into, and there is no grid to deform the nap of the roller.

Again this may not matter depending on the application, texture/sheen/market etc. And it lots of casings it probably is faster and better to use a 5 and a grid than a tray.

Totally depends on the type of job.


----------



## Roamer

You can't use a tray on a ladder. Buckets all the way.

Pans can be stepped in, tough to step inside of a bucket you have to lift your foot pretty high. The only time we've used trays was when we were rolling metal doors at the ATF(Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms) HQ. Had to have a fast drying paint, since we couldn't move past a five door area unless the doors we had just worked on were closed. Used a roller with a very short nap pans made sense then.


----------



## Last Craftsman

Roamer said:


> Pans can be stepped in,


The dilemma:

Pans can be stepped in.

The solution:

Don't step in the pan.

:whistling2:


----------



## ewingpainting.net

5ers can be kick over. 
I'm reckoning the solution is don't kick them over.


----------



## mistcoat

I can't believe this thread is still being posted on.

Solution: Stop posting


----------



## Last Craftsman

mistcoat said:


> I can't believe this thread is still being posted on.
> 
> Solution: Stop posting



Solution:

Stop reading.

:whistling2:


----------



## ewingpainting.net

mistcoat said:


> I can't believe this thread is still being posted on.
> 
> Solution: Stop posting


What problem is the solution for?


----------



## mistcoat

Last Craftsman said:


> Solution:
> 
> Stop reading.
> 
> :whistling2:


I can't,,, just in case I learn something new


----------



## TheRogueBristle

mistcoat said:


>


No way! 

Best. Smiley. Ever.


----------



## mistcoat

TheRogueBristle said:


> No way!
> 
> Best. Smiley. Ever.


Way :yes:
And he is using (UK term) a roller tray :thumbsup:
RCP is also a smiley too... look > > >


----------



## RCP

mistcoat said:


> Way :yes:
> And he is using (UK term) a roller tray :thumbsup:
> RCP is also a smiley too... look > > >


LOL! Too cute!:thumbup:


----------



## TheRogueBristle

I guess I spoke too soon. :thumbup:


----------



## throbak

For me, the solution to the problem of a grid in a 5 squeezing off too much paint, was the Bestt Liebco "Big Time Paint Tray." Holds 3 gallons, has a handle to pick it up one handed, and a ribbed roll off that loads and keeps more of the paint in the roller. And unlike the Wooster pail, the ramp design keeps the roller out of the paint when resting in the tray.


----------



## jack pauhl

I'm working with an old school painter who I believe does some of the highest quality work in our area and would recommend him to anyone for any job. He rolls out of a bucket with a broken purdy pole... you know the ones... where the screw that holds the treading comes loose and you try fixing it over and over but the frame handle still rocks back n forth or side to side. 

There's no question this guy does top quality work but the way in which he achieves it couldn't possibly take longer to do. I watched him roll for 3 days and what takes him 30-40 mins with his busted up bucket rolling system is what I do in a fraction of that time with a pan. His color changes take longer too, much longer than swapping tray liners. 

I'm simply stating those details because what he does is exactly the same I see any painter doing when rolling out of a bucket. He was picking dried paint off the wall from the metal grid, battling over roller marks cause by paint spin off from end caps despite wiping almost every load with his finger to reduce that mess. Occasional drips spun off the end caps on the wall and going back to re roll the area. 

For me that's what I always see guys doing when rolling out of buckets. I'm sure none of you have that problem and some do it better than others.

Like a brush company once said, "a brush is a personal preference"... Personally I prefer to be more effective and productive with a pan.


----------



## ReNt A PaInTeR

jack pauhl said:


> I'm working with an old school painter who I believe does some of the highest quality work in our area and would recommend him to anyone for any job. He rolls out of a bucket with a broken purdy pole... you know the ones... where the screw that holds the treading comes loose and you try fixing it over and over but the frame handle still rocks back n forth or side to side.
> 
> There's no question this guy does top quality work but the way in which he achieves it couldn't possibly take longer to do. I watched him roll for 3 days and what takes him 30-40 mins with his busted up bucket rolling system is what I do in a fraction of that time with a pan. His color changes take longer too, much longer than swapping tray liners.
> 
> I'm simply stating those details because what he does is exactly the same I see any painter doing when rolling out of a bucket. He was picking dried paint off the wall from the metal grid, battling over roller marks cause by paint spin off from end caps despite wiping almost every load with his finger to reduce that mess. Occasional drips spun off the end caps on the wall and going back to re roll the area.
> 
> For me that's what I always see guys doing when rolling out of buckets. I'm sure none of you have that problem and some do it better than others.
> 
> Like a brush company once said, "a brush is a personal preference"... Personally I prefer to be more effective and productive with a pan.


JP have you ever use this one ? give a try and let me know what you think, SW sells the liners 12 for $ 15 i believe


----------



## ewingpainting.net

I'm on pins and needles waiting for your review as well JP.


----------



## Last Craftsman

ewingpainting.net said:


> I'm on pins and needles



Sounds kinky.

:whistling2:


----------



## jack pauhl

ewingpainting.net said:


> So because you use a pan, that makes you more detailed? My point was I have done and am doing "high end" work acording to your standards. Just because one does or doesn't use a pan. Doesn't make them any more qualified than the other.


No doubt it's a personal preference from what I can tell but at the same time it appears to be a lack of understanding of the many merits of pan rolling because guys who were trained in the bucket, remain in the bucket. The only thing a bucket has over pan rolling is capacity but I am seeing more and more larger pan styles to accommodate more capacity. We are testing one right now with a 1.5 gal capacity which is twice that of traditional deep-well metal pans. This pan also accommodates 14" rollers. 

We get a lot of comments on the speed of painting a room even with a nine and it has everything to do with rolling out of a pan because they are very efficient to work out of. Besides, that last gallon in the bucket that sits below the metal grid isn't exactly the most efficient way of getting paint on a roller. Buckets have a prime level of being as efficient as a bucket can be.


----------



## jack pauhl

ewingpainting.net said:


> I'm on pins and needles waiting for your review as well JP.


Sorry to keep you waiting. I think its a tool holder last I checked.


----------



## teddy38668

new to the website and do like it. I started with trays and then worked with a professionial and he got me on buckets. Recently switched to trays. I have been using the handy dandy trays and love them. They hold a good bit of paint and clean up is so easy.


----------



## sir paintalot

One of the best new painting accessories around. Love this tool, changed my life (and eased my back).


----------



## jenni

heck i even wash my disposable tray liners :yes:


----------



## Scraper

Amazon.com: WOOSTER BRUSH COMPANY 8616 PLASTIC PAINT PAIL 14 x 15-1/2 x 9": Sports & Outdoors

Am I the only one who uses the wooster 9" bucket?


----------



## jack pauhl

Scraper said:


> Amazon.com: WOOSTER BRUSH COMPANY 8616 PLASTIC PAINT PAIL 14 x 15-1/2 x 9": Sports & Outdoors
> 
> Am I the only one who uses the wooster 9" bucket?


Yes.  I spend no time moving the pans unless I am transitioning floors. Bucket rolling requires you to pick up the five constantly depending on how much you start with. But in reality you want to start with 4 gallons max in a 5 gal bucket and you have 2 gal to work with before it reaches below the metal grid. Not only that but the 4 gal mark is slow to start rolling because you are so high on the grid. So guys are typically rolling 2 gallons off the grid and 2 gallons licking paint like a dog for a load off the grid to get the remaining paint.

So rolling out of those Wooster buckets for me are like rolling out of a bucket that has a fixed steep grid and heavy to move around. Plus, its an ergonomic thing too. You are dunking downward in both scenarios and more difficult the longer the pole is. Pan rolling is just loaded with benefits over bucket types. So many more than meets the eye.


----------



## Scraper

To each his own. I started using the wooster bucket prob 10 years ago because I do not like using the 5 gal bucket or the tray. I use deep trays and liners when using oil based because of easy disposal. Can honestly say (for me)extension poles have never been easier with tray vs wooster bucket.


----------



## jack pauhl

Scraper said:


> To each his own. I started using the wooster bucket prob 10 years ago because I do not like using the 5 gal bucket or the tray. I use deep trays and liners when using oil based because of easy disposal. Can honestly say (for me)extension poles have never been easier with tray vs wooster bucket.


I know... its all our own preference. Are you saying extension poles are better with Wooster bucket vs pans? To clarify? What I was referring to was loading a 12' or 16' pole in a bucket or Wooster bucket vs placing the pan across the room and sliding in at floor level to then raise the pole straight back upward in an almost non-stop motion.


----------



## Scraper

jack pauhl said:


> I know... its all our own preference. Are you saying extension poles are better with Wooster bucket vs pans? To clarify? What I was referring to was loading a 12' or 16' pole in a bucket or Wooster bucket vs placing the pan across the room and sliding in at floor level to then raise the pole straight back upward in an almost non-stop motion.


That totally makes sense for 12 or 16'. I don't use a pole over 8' and when I neet to be taller I set the bucket to the right bottom of a ladder. In that situation wooster bucket is easier. But for standing on the ground I can see where tray would be more efficient. The wooster 9" bucket has slots to put wheels and I think that would be convenient also,but never tried because the bucket w/ lid on is very strong and sturdy-- I can stand on it, perfect height to sit on to do baseboards when my knees are giving me a fit.


----------



## TERRY365PAINTER

Jack I switch to the pan like a year ago after reading one of your reviews on the handy dandy paint tray . I have never turn back . I have yet to step in the dam thing . 
One of my guys that works for me hates the tray . He like using just a roller and a fiver with no grid . Which to me, makes no sense .


----------



## mike75

We in Australia mainly use low line buckets(8 inch depth)with two handles with a grid insert. They seem to work fine even with as little as one litre in it, and we all mainly use 14 inch rollers or my favourite the 12 inch roller the best all rounder.http://www.expressrollers.com/superiorCover.html These are the buckets we use http://www.oldfields.com.au/pdf/Painteroo.pdf


----------



## mike75

sir paintalot said:


> One of the best new painting accessories around. Love this tool, changed my life (and eased my back).


Are you being serious ????


----------



## mike75

This is the only tray we use,it can be used with rollers up to 12 inches and can hold almost a gallon of paint .


----------



## sir paintalot

mike75 said:


> Are you being serious ????


Yep, the less bending over the better. Moving the tray when rolling is such a pain in the a** that sometimes I just leave it in the corner and walk back and forth. With this arm it's SO easy to move the tray it makes me way more efficient. And it's great having somewhere to lean the extension pole. Figure out how many "bendovers" you can save in a day, it's awesome man! I also use these. Got sick of cutting plastic. It's a great system for me.


----------



## mike75

amazing i wouldnt have given it a second thought. If it works for you thats what matters.:thumbsup:


----------



## JoseyWales

mike75 said:


> Are you being serious ????



Love that tool as well but I'm starting to use more 14" roller sleeves and those larger trays don't work with it..I wish the same manufacturer made larger trays.


----------



## jack pauhl

This is worth mentioning from a productive standpoint. For 9 rolling I use a HANDy (red plastic pan) it holds 1 gal. It allows quick loading by design but if you fill to 1 gal then its slow to start rolling out of. So I will only fill my first pan half full until the cover is fully loaded then top off.

For my custom cut 11 inch, 14, 18 inch I use the Wooster Big Ben pan. It too is quick to load out of by design. 

Now this one below which is something new we're trying is somewhat of a PITA to load because the outer wall closet to your feet when you load is 2 3/4" H on a short ramp with a back wall of 4 1/2". The back wall is nice at 4 1/2" because it catches cast-off. The 2 3/4" wall forces you to position the angle of the pole more downward than feels natural to do. It puts you in a position of almost dunking for paint rather than transitioning for it at a natural floor level. 

What I am going to do once I am certain I hate rolling out of it will be to cut the 2 3/4" wall down to 1 1/2" tall to take advantage of landing on more ramp space in a split second.


----------



## 6126

Its all what your used to. I rolled out of 5s for years and laughed at guys who used trays. That has changed. I am mostly residential these days. Been using trays and tubs more and more. I rarely use 9 rollers unless its a bathroom or accent wall. 14" is my preference today and probably cuts labor time down by 25% or so. I like 18s for larger areas like entry ways with high walls or spraying and back rolling. I also like an 18 for rolling ceilings.


----------



## jack pauhl

Woodland said:


> Its all what your used to. I rolled out of 5s for years and laughed at guys who used trays. That has changed. I am mostly residential these days. Been using trays and tubs more and more. I rarely use 9 rollers unless its a bathroom or accent wall. 14" is my preference today and probably cuts labor time down by 25% or so. I like 18s for larger areas like entry ways with high walls or spraying and back rolling. I also like an 18 for rolling ceilings.


haha.. I have to laugh. When I look at a 9 today it just seems like a toy. I roll linen closets with an 18 if I can get it in there and run it tight with a jumbo koter. The 9 to me is 100% a production killer unless its used side-by-side with a 18 inch. When rolling with either a 14 or 18 on a wide boy, you won't see me turn the roller sideways to get in smaller areas. Tops of doors, below windows depending on tightness are always rolled with a 9. Basically use a 9 to cut-in for the 18 to maintain maximum efficiency.


----------



## sir paintalot

jack pauhl said:


> haha.. I have to laugh. When I look at a 9 today it just seems like a toy. I roll linen closets with an 18 if I can get it in there and run it tight with a jumbo koter. The 9 to me is 100% a production killer unless its used side-by-side with a 18 inch. When rolling with either a 14 or 18 on a wide boy, you won't see me turn the roller sideways to get in smaller areas. Tops of doors, below windows depending on tightness are always rolled with a 9. Basically use a 9 to cut-in for the 18 to maintain maximum efficiency.


I used to use an 18. Several things I don't like, you can't roll tight to corners, sleeves are expensive, te Big Ben bucket is a real PITA to clean and there don't seem to be liners for them and they are bloody heavy man! I'm 53. When I was 33 it wasn't so bad but nowdays an 18 just kills me. Besides it's all about energy. You are going to expend exactly the same amount of energy rolling with an 18 as you are with a 9. At this stage I prefer more reps with a lighter weight. Although I might make a compromise and check out that wooster 14, I like the fact you can roll right into corners like a regular roller.
As far as production goes, doing a good job is not all about how fast you go. Over the years I have come to learn that. It's like playing guitar man, the guys who play the fastest aren't always the best, it's the quality notes that I like to hear. If you are trying to go too fast maybe you didn't bid the job high enough? or maybe you are just greedy? I like to think I have reached a happy place as far as speed/quality goes. It's just not worth breaking your balls trying to go faster to make a few extra bucks. Better off to get a good price and do a steady, quality job. Even as I write this most of my customers tell me I am the most efficient painter they have seen and I have spent a great deal of time trying different methods to become as efficient as possible but when you are running around like a chicken with it's head cut off to try and go FASTER and FASTER that's just not the way I want to live my life.


----------



## jack pauhl

sir paintalot said:


> I used to use an 18. Several things I don't like, you can't roll tight to corners, sleeves are expensive, te Big Ben bucket is a real PITA to clean and there don't seem to be liners for them and they are bloody heavy man! I'm 53. When I was 33 it wasn't so bad but nowdays an 18 just kills me. Besides it's all about energy. You are going to expend exactly the same amount of energy rolling with an 18 as you are with a 9. At this stage I prefer more reps with a lighter weight. Although I might make a compromise and check out that wooster 14, I like the fact you can roll right into corners like a regular roller.
> As far as production goes, doing a good job is not all about how fast you go. Over the years I have come to learn that. It's like playing guitar man, the guys who play the fastest aren't always the best, it's the quality notes that I like to hear. If you are trying to go too fast maybe you didn't bid the job high enough? or maybe you are just greedy? I like to think I have reached a happy place as far as speed/quality goes. It's just not worth breaking your balls trying to go faster to make a few extra bucks. Better off to get a good price and do a steady, quality job. Even as I write this most of my customers tell me I am the most efficient painter they have seen and I have spent a great deal of time trying different methods to become as efficient as possible but when you are running around like a chicken with it's head cut off to try and go FASTER and FASTER that's just not the way I want to live my life.


18 inch covers are twice the price of 9 inch covers. If they are not in your store, go seek them out. So because you only pay $10-11 for an 18 inch and it saves you half the time vs a 9 (it should easily). Figure out what you pay yourself times the amount of time it saved you. So $5 is not expensive to get twice the bang especially when you reuse them over and over.


----------



## CApainter

jack pauhl said:


> haha.. I have to laugh. When I look at a 9 today it just seems like a toy. I roll linen closets with an 18 if I can get it in there and run it tight with a jumbo koter. The 9 to me is 100% a production killer unless its used side-by-side with a 18 inch. When rolling with either a 14 or 18 on a wide boy, you won't see me turn the roller sideways to get in smaller areas. Tops of doors, below windows depending on tightness are always rolled with a 9. Basically use a 9 to cut-in for the 18 to maintain maximum efficiency.


I have never used anything larger then a nine inch roller. But, because of jack puahl's thorough investigation, and experiments into the use of different application methods, I will be trying a fourteen inch soon!.

Side note to jack: I read your review on the Graco 395 AAA. You were exactly right on having to keep the tip constantly cleaned. Couple of notes on the AAA:
-Doesn't seem to provide enough air, but is atomizing the paint better then using straight airless
-Air ports on spray cap are to small!
-doesn't allow adaptation to standard wand. ( found this out last Wed. Bummer)
-Hose doesn't bother me. Used to using conventional
-Heavy MoFo!

I like this machine, but is it really worth the $2,000+ cost?

Appreciate the feed back jack. And BTW... I'm a 5 gal bucket guy, but the pans work really well in certain situations. Thanks!


----------



## jack pauhl

CApainter said:


> I have never used anything larger then a nine inch roller. But, because of jack puahl's thorough investigation, and experiments into the use of different application methods, I will be trying a fourteen inch soon!.
> 
> Side note to jack: I read your review on the Graco 395 AAA. You were exactly right on having to keep the tip constantly cleaned. Couple of notes on the AAA:
> -Doesn't seem to provide enough air, but is atomizing the paint better then using straight airless
> -Air ports on spray cap are to small!
> -doesn't allow adaptation to standard wand. ( found this out last Wed. Bummer)
> -Hose doesn't bother me. Used to using conventional
> -Heavy MoFo!
> 
> I like this machine, but is it really worth the $2,000+ cost?
> 
> Appreciate the feed back jack. And BTW... I'm a 5 gal bucket guy, but the pans work really well in certain situations. Thanks!


Just to be clear on where I stand with rolling 14 or 18... I do it with a Wooster Wideboy (not hulk) because I can't stand frame flex when I roll. It throws off my chi. 

We should move your AAA questions to the AAA thread. I will look for it, paste your post and reply.


----------



## CApainter

jack pauhl said:


> Just to be clear on where I stand with rolling 14 or 18... I do it with a Wooster Wideboy (not hulk) because I can't stand frame flex when I roll. It throws off my chi.
> 
> We should move your AAA questions to the AAA thread. I will look for it, paste your post and reply.


Will do


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## vermontpainter

CApainter said:


> I like this machine, but is it really worth the $2,000+ cost?


I bought this machine last year as a cabinet finishing rig. We have also used it in the shop prefinishing exterior packages. Its good in production, and will pay its way, but until you do a cabinet job with it, you arent really seeing its full potential. We have done sick dye stain and omu cabinetry with it, as well as paint grade cabinetry. That is where it shines. Anyone who buys it expecting that aaa will be a production boost is destined for disappointment. Its an hvlp gun on steroids. Thats the first clue. You really have to spend alot of months running this rig in a bunch of different scenarios to fully appreciate it. Otherwise, it just seems like a 395 with a compressor and a fine gun. No big deal. Run it cabinet style. Not just like one mantel or builtin. Do some volume of fine finish with it. Its good. I did a massive time sensitive stain grade cherry job with it last fall. Could not have hit the schedule and quality expectation without it.


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## oldpaintdoc

sir paintalot said:


> I have spent a great deal of time trying different methods to become as efficient as possible but when you are running around like a chicken with it's head cut off to try and go FASTER and FASTER that's just not the way I want to live my life.


Care to share those messages?
Maybe start a new thread?
Or Just PM me?
I am a 1 man crew and at 55 I am much like you in that it is not all about working harder but smarter.
Thanks in advance.


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## jack pauhl

I use this 3 gal tank sprayer to spin out 14 and 18 inch covers.


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## jack pauhl

ragebhardt said:


> Care to share those messages?
> Maybe start a new thread?
> Or Just PM me?
> I am a 1 man crew and at 55 I am much like you in that it is not all about working harder but smarter.
> Thanks in advance.


The wrong message gets related to being efficient. What it means to me when I design systems, they have to reduce the amount of time in an effortless way. Im getting older and I want everything I do today to be as easy as it can.

Being efficient and fast are 2 separate things in other words.


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## Softy

CApainter said:


> I like this machine, but is it really worth the $2,000+ cost?
> 
> Appreciate the feed back jack. And BTW... I'm a 5 gal bucket guy, but the pans work really well in certain situations. Thanks!



Try this baby out and you'll think you get screw. This thing kick AAA butts. It's equivalent to about 105-315 on air. The range is so wide is because it's adjustable. You can un-thin or thin the paint to make it ultra smooth. There's few issue such as the control air needle is so hard to clean but I'm trying to modify it. Also it's not as super precise as standard air gun or HVLP but it's far more precise than AAA. It seem to work only on latex because it has rubber washer at the air cap.

http://www.harborfreight.com/household-low-volume-low-pressure-spray-gun-92841.html

You do need to drive it with compressor. I use Rigid 4.5gal

If you do oil, use this one it's good. I made lots of money on this one and will be using it to urethane kitchen cabinet next week. That'll put thousand buck in my wallet. http://www.harborfreight.com/detail-spray-gun-91011.html 
These 2 guns are better than HVLP because it doesn't consume too much air. I also have Devilbiss gun w/ pot but it use too much air so it get to sit in box.


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