# 9" vs 18"



## jason123 (Jul 2, 2009)

So whats the verdict 9" roller or go with the big boy 18"


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Depends on the job. Sometimes I might break out the 14.


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

I stick with a 9 because I primarily do residential, and an 18 is too big for that type of work. If I was doing commercial work (like long hallways) an 18 would be more efficient - so like wolfgang says it depends on the job.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

We use an 18 as much as possible for the production benefits. Since we mainly do re-paints, its about 50/50.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

This is the way I look at it. Time spent 'cutting' vs. rolling in average room with an average amount of windows and doorways always seems to be about 2:1. That's to say for every minute spent rolling - you will spend 2 minutes cutting in, and that's using a 9" roller frame. 

So let's say for argument purposes your production in the rolling department increases by 100% - so you halve your time spent rolling. In an average room this is half of 1/3 the total time spent applying paint or a 1/6 total time savings - percentage wise that's a 16.67% savings on time. Not bad but not exactly what you would expect intuitively, and not enough of a time saver to make me rush out and purchase 18" frames for everyone. The roller sleeve costs more money than an 9" sleeve and the extra amount of paint it takes to fully 'prime' an 18" roller especially with todays top end paints such as Aura, the amount in materials cost wastes comes pretty close to if not fully eradicating any labor savings from shaving off 1/6th the labor from a wall repaint.

You reduce 'cutting' by 50% and now I'd say you have a damn fine invention!


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## [email protected] (Mar 1, 2008)

I didn't vote because I to am one that uses witch ever is best for the job.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

I only use 9" never used anthing bigger.


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## y.painting (Jul 19, 2009)

plainpainter said:


> This is the way I look at it. Time spent 'cutting' vs. rolling in average room with an average amount of windows and doorways always seems to be about 2:1. That's to say for every minute spent rolling - you will spend 2 minutes cutting in, and that's using a 9" roller frame.
> 
> So let's say for argument purposes your production in the rolling department increases by 100% - so you halve your time spent rolling. In an average room this is half of 1/3 the total time spent applying paint or a 1/6 total time savings - percentage wise that's a 16.67% savings on time. Not bad but not exactly what you would expect intuitively, and not enough of a time saver to make me rush out and purchase 18" frames for everyone. The roller sleeve costs more money than an 9" sleeve and the extra amount of paint it takes to fully 'prime' an 18" roller especially with todays top end paints such as Aura, the amount in materials cost wastes comes pretty close to if not fully eradicating any labor savings from shaving off 1/6th the labor from a wall repaint.
> 
> You reduce 'cutting' by 50% and now I'd say you have a damn fine invention!


You also forgot the extra cleaning time 

18s make no sense for single rooms, especially when you are working with different colors in each room. They work nice for long hallways and multi-residence stairwells.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

Only use 18's on floors. Just much more convenient to use 9's. Easier to carry 5's to roll out of. Easier to manuever in occupied residential.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

I get a good enough (burn on) with 9 " why go bigger.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

So how many of you that don't use them have used them?

Are your personal observations born from experience or conjecture?


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

bikerboy said:


> So how many of you that don't use them have used them?
> 
> Are your personal observations born from experience or conjecture?


I bought one a few years ago and used it on one job. I decided the sore arms was not a good trade off.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

bikerboy said:


> So how many of you that don't use them have used them?
> 
> Are your personal observations born from experience or conjecture?


I use the 9" roller for the bulk of the jobs. I use an 18" when back rolling and I will bust it out for big great that have high walls and a lot of wall space, anywhere where the job will justify it. 
When doing rooms that have doors next to each other or windows that would normally fit a 9" but are to small for a 18" makes me use the 9" for the hassle free factor. Also 18" frames do not let you roll as tight and as arron said it is easier to move around my bucket and standard size roller. 

Plus cleaning an 18" roller without a roller cleaning thing like a rejuve roller is a total pain and it will go into the trash.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

_Sore arms?!? _Sheesh....last time I heard "sore arms" was from a newbie who had to roll a couple hours straight. LOL Thanks for the good laugh today John. I'll use an 18 wherever I can except for ceilings and then it's usually a 14. As far as cleaning one out, it takes maybe 3-5 minutes more. Mostly I use the Purdy Colussus 3/4" 18's, rolling out of a 5gal tray bucket. (By the way, this is coming from a guy who only has 1/3 the raise motion in his right arm and 1/2 in his left. It's the repetitive motion that takes it's toll on me from using 9's) Now if I only have a gallon to paint then it's 9's all the way.

Say/think what you will about JP, (Jack Pauhl), but that guy can scream with an 18, and he probably has a video to prove it. I remember when I first joined this forum he kinda grated my butt, _but_ he backs his stuff up with videos. He's still too much of a production machine for my tastes, though I do admire him for what he does, how he backs it up, and the never ending crap he puts up with.

Using any piece of equipment you're not used to takes some adjustments. I'm just as guilty as anybody else of being set in my ways, but due to disabilities I _had_ to make changes...otherwise I'd have sore arms too.

Next thing I'll hear is how someone says a 3-4" brush makes their hands too sore. LOL


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

I used an 18" in a big McMansion repaint - where downstairs kitchen, dining room, entrance and great room - and upstairs hallway were all one color - that made a ton of sense. Even then my helper had a 9". Whenever the ratio of cutting to rolling is heavier on the rolling side - then break out the 18", if indeed it's the bottleneck. But the way I see it - with average residential repaints, you can have two guys cutting to one guy rolling with a 9" - hand him an 18" and he'll starting getting way ahead of even two guys cutting.


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

love me a 18 for almost everything, I only do residential


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## jason123 (Jul 2, 2009)

Maybe not one of the greatest polls. mewhp

There are alot of pros and cons. save time here lost money there lost time there made money here?? I like to break out an 18" beginning with lets say a condo with all one color and it goes up from there. If im going to do a bedroom ill prob stick with a 9"

A 14" man now i gotsta go and see me one of these. 

*Here a cunundrum. Large office space big walls. 18" or titan 9" ineer feed roller.* *????*


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

jason123 said:


> Maybe not one of the greatest polls. mewhp
> 
> There are alot of pros and cons. save time here lost money there lost time there made money here?? I like to break out an 18" beginning with lets say a condo with all one color and it goes up from there. If im going to do a bedroom ill prob stick with a 9"
> 
> ...


You're just bound and determined to use that Titan roller somewhere arent you? (If you bought it already, give it a try and let us know.)


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

jason123 said:


> =
> 
> *Here a cunundrum. Large office space big walls. 18" or titan 9" ineer feed roller.* *????*


Bring both, try the new toy and then give us your unbiased review of it and if you it does not work out well you bought yourself some extra cleanup and then knock it out the usual way


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Workaholic said:


> Plus cleaning an 18" roller without a roller cleaning thing like a rejuve roller is a total pain and it will go into the trash.


 
I have the roller cleaning contraption.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

bikerboy said:


> I have the roller cleaning contraption.


For the 18" It saves a 8-13 dollars a use.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

What will come next a 4' wide motor driven roller, with multiple heads?


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## y.painting (Jul 19, 2009)

Does the rejuve roller thing work well? We've never tried one.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

y.painting said:


> Does the rejuve roller thing work well? We've never tried one.


It works alright it is really more of a diy tool but for the 18" that are awkward to clean it will save some money. Otherwise 18" covers just go into the trash but it is equilivent as throwing 10-12 dollars away when it gets used once and gets tossed. 
The bulk of my 18" use is for back rolling.

For the 9" covers i prefer to clean the normal way. I use a lot of lambs wool or purdy colossus.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Repaints for me are usually multiple colors, so 18's are not a cost efficient option, just given roller cover cost, clean up time (including the hassle of tray and multiple colors). I will occasionally break out an 18 for a very large wall or large ceilings and always use one to back roll primer in new construction. To be honest, the lack of a cheap, disposable tray liner is enough of a reason to skip using 18's for walls.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

I don't have the rejuva thing, but something like it. It works well enough. Run water through it while I am cleaning brushes. Pull it out, spin the pad, flip it over and repeat. That usually does it.

It cost me $18.00. Clean your pad a couple of times and it paid for itself. 

Works better on shorter naps but will clean both.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

Sometimes I think we're all fooling ourselves into thinking we're saving money by re-using sundry items. I mean - I have purdy brushes that are pushing 5 years old that I still use - yet if I had to pay 'help' to clean them out - it would probably be more cost effective to buy a new brush for every job.


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

Wooster just put out a L frame for a 14"roller. One thing I havent liked about the 18" set up was I couldn't roll tight to things. I got the 14" frame, cut an 18" roller to fit. Then got a Roughneck bin and wired a couple of screens together. Smaller than the " big Boy " bucket, plus I can have a couple of them if I need a couple colors.
Get a 24" sheet metal tube (6") to spin out a cover in and you can do it anywhere. 
New set up- just used it on one job so far. But I like it.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

plainpainter said:


> Sometimes I think we're all fooling ourselves into thinking we're saving money by re-using sundry items. I mean - I have purdy brushes that are pushing 5 years old that I still use - yet if I had to pay 'help' to clean them out - it would probably be more cost effective to buy a new brush for every job.


Some people go that route myself I think it saves the money to spend 5 minutes of my time to clean a roller I mean lambswool is not meant to be disposable. Brushes yeah you could easily buy a new one for every job but I like a little experience from my brush. 
I do purchase throwaways for some materials but if I were were getting into 3 different wall colors and some trim paint for the day I will pull out 4 brushes and use them and then clean them rather than throw away 80+ dollars worth of equipment that I will want to use again tomorrow.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

BrushJockey said:


> Wooster just put out a L frame for a 14"roller. One thing I havent liked about the 18" set up was I couldn't roll tight to things. I got the 14" frame, cut an 18" roller to fit. Then got a Roughneck bin and wired a couple of screens together. Smaller than the " big Boy " bucket, plus I can have a couple of them if I need a couple colors.
> Get a 24" sheet metal tube (6") to spin out a cover in and you can do it anywhere.
> New set up- just used it on one job so far. But I like it.


pics?


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

Workaholic said:


> Some people go that route myself I think it saves the money to spend 5 minutes of my time to clean a roller I mean lambswool is not meant to be disposable. Brushes yeah you could easily buy a new one for every job but I like a little experience from my brush.
> I do purchase throwaways for some materials but if I were were getting into 3 different wall colors and some trim paint for the day I will pull out 4 brushes and use them and then clean them rather than throw away 80+ dollars worth of equipment that I will want to use again tomorrow.


Well, maybe you are like me, owner/operator does most interior work by myself - then it makes sense to do this stuff. I mean we have to pay all the indirect expenses for our company off our own labor-hour. So $80 is huge for us. But I mean once you start getting into the 10k+ interior jobs where you keep crews - do you really want to pay guys to clean a $12.99 Wooster brush?


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

plainpainter said:


> Well, maybe you are like me, owner/operator does most interior work by myself - then it makes sense to do this stuff. I mean we have to pay all the indirect expenses for our company off our own labor-hour. So $80 is huge for us. But I mean once you start getting into the 10k+ interior jobs where you keep crews - do you really want to pay guys to clean a $12.99 Wooster brush?


That's true. I would have to expirement around with the costs vs costs though because how long does it take to clean a brush 3-8 minutes depending on what material is in it. So if you were paying someone 25.00hr which is rather generous in my area that is about 42 cents a minute (lets say 50) so 50 cents a minute it should cost you 4.00 for them to clean a brush. vs 12-18 to toss it.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Yes, I do want them to clenched brushes. First it would be wasteful,to toss them. Second, to toss an average of 3 brushes per person is more than clean up costs.


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## Mantis (Aug 4, 2008)

We'll use 18" for priming or back rolling sprayed finishes. Generally use 9" for all final coating of wall finishes. If we get a house that is primarily all one color we'll break out the 14"er.


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## poiman (Dec 23, 2009)

*roller cleaning contraption*

Bikerboy,

Where do you find one of these? Have been looking but can't find.
Thanks


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## painting247 (Mar 18, 2009)

an 18 as much as I possibly can....use it enough and wa-la NO SORE ARMS!


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

painting247 said:


> an 18 as much as I possibly can....use it enough and wa-la NO SORE ARMS!


 
...my kinda woman there!


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## Jeff.Chicago (May 19, 2008)

I use 18's on everything and have done the money -vs- time scenario and over all have saved a lot of time! If you have never used one, I suggest trying it out!


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

poiman said:


> Bikerboy,
> 
> Where do you find one of these? Have been looking but can't find.
> Thanks


Here is the link Slickshift hooked me up with awhile back when I asked. 
http://www.snowshomeandgarden.com/pr...Roller_Cleaner


The long hose is 5 extra bucks so it is really 30.00 but if you use it a few times you will be saving money everytime after that. Of course the bulk of my 18" roller use is back rolling ceilings and closets.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

9" lambs wools every day. As far as brushes go some guys kill me trying to work an old worn out nub of a brush because they're to cheap to buy a new one. There comes a point where your "favorite brush" is a joke and is costing you money cause your trying to do trim with a wire brush so you either leave ropes or cut your paint then it doesn't cover, so then you blame the paint! I don't think a brush can really be functional more than 6 months maybe a year. I love when guys say "I've had this same brush for 4 years" and the bristles are about 2" long. Not On my Job!!But just to avoid this I supply ALL tools. Painters tend to be penny wise and dollar foolish. Then again.....I could be wrong!


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## salmangeri (Sep 13, 2008)

*change*

I like the 18's and the 9's coupled with a wooster roller bucket and disposable liner from valleyproproducts. The buckets are great as they double as a tool and material carrier. When rolling along the wall a roller tray loaded with paint is difficult to carry with one hand. But the buckets have a handle on them which means I don't have to put the rolling pole down to move the paint in position. Throw in a disposable liner (cuts clean up to one minute without water) and your good to go. The buckets also come with lids so the paint will not dry out on the liner overnight.......happy rolling!


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## brihtar1170 (Dec 15, 2009)

We use only the 9" rollers. Walls and ceilings are mostly smaller dimensions and we are easier to work with a smaller roller.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Sretan Bozic our Croatian friend.


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## brihtar1170 (Dec 15, 2009)

Frohe Weihnachten. Vielen dank herr Wolfgang.


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## salmangeri (Sep 13, 2008)

brihtar1170

Have you ever tried the 18" roller system??


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## brihtar1170 (Dec 15, 2009)

Unfortunately I never used it and I have not seen any painter with us to use it. It simply is not in the market.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

brihtar1170 said:


> Unfortunately I never used it and I have not seen any painter with us to use it. It simply is not in the market.


Give me an address to ship a frame and a couple of covers to. You may have to take care of any import fees yourself. Used to be if you wrapped something as a Christmas present they would take it easy on any import fees...least wise in Germany anyway. You'll have to make up your own tray or bucket as they are large. A sheet metal person should be able to make one up for you.


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## salmangeri (Sep 13, 2008)

Wolfgang that is a very nice gesture to sent those things overseas..........let me know if you use the wooster wideboy roller bucket I will send you some disposable liners.

Sal


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Wolfgang said:


> Give me an address to ship a frame and a couple of covers to. You may have to take care of any import fees yourself. Used to be if you wrapped something as a Christmas present they would take it easy on any import fees...least wise in Germany anyway. You'll have to make up your own tray or bucket as they are large. A sheet metal person should be able to make one up for you.


Very nice gesture Wolf. :thumbsup:


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Back in the 80's I used to send used Levi 501's to my cousins in Germany. We made some hellacious money on that venture. I even flew over there with a couple of very large suitcases packed full of them. The customs lady just looked at me, smiled, and passed me through. The joys of dual-citizenship and a well known family name.


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## salmangeri (Sep 13, 2008)

*9" flash*

How can a two story open foyer with walls measuring 17' high be rolled with a 9" roller ( using top quality eggshell paint ) without flashing? Once that sun shines across those walls your in big trouble especially if you have a HO who knows what to look for in a finished wall. My point here is even if you prime the walls it is virtually impossible to achieve an even sheen with a 9" roller. When we do an open foyer we have two guys with 18's one rolling the upper half and one directly below rolling the lower half and even then you have to hustle to keep a wet edge................


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## salmangeri (Sep 13, 2008)

Wolfgang sounds like your going to break into an untapped market for 18" roller set ups............:yes:


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## brihtar1170 (Dec 15, 2009)

Wolfgang Thank you for your generous offer. I recently bought on ebay Purdy brushes and proved to be great. Not to buy these from us. 
I just ordered Purdy adjustable roller arm 12"-18" and some covers so I'll try. 
Once again a big thank you and everyone on this forum. You guys really true.:notworthy:
I learned a lot reading your posts. For a lot of things about which you write with us yet do not know.


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

salmangeri said:


> How can a two story open foyer with walls measuring 17' high be rolled with a 9" roller ( using top quality eggshell paint ) without flashing? Once that sun shines across those walls your in big trouble especially if you have a HO who knows what to look for in a finished wall. My point here is even if you prime the walls it is virtually impossible to achieve an even sheen with a 9" roller. When we do an open foyer we have two guys with 18's one rolling the upper half and one directly below rolling the lower half and even then you have to hustle to keep a wet edge................



Aura...


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

bikerboy said:


> So how many of you that don't use them have used them?
> 
> Are your personal observations born from experience or conjecture?


Never used one, the bulkiness of the buckets/pans roller frames is why I never gave them a second thought. But if one likes them, them more power to ya. :thumbsup:


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## Msargent (Jan 16, 2009)

14 or 18 any day over a 9 Time is money!!


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## jason123 (Jul 2, 2009)

Wolfgang said:


> You're just bound and determined to use that Titan roller somewhere arent you? (If you bought it already, give it a try and let us know.)


I didn't get the office bid I prob could have cut a 1000 or two.. Oh well

I used the inner feed roller when I got it. I bought it with the a package what I really needed was the long extension arm. So ofcourse I just bought every other tool for about 300..

I ended up trying on a huge ceiling bad choice, less than halfway through I ended up switching to a 18". I think its best app would be on wall and a whole lot of them. All i need is a big office to test out this theory..


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