# Eggshell finish black paint on smooth walls



## tronman

Painting a retail store with black dryfall ceiling and black walls. The walls have no texture and they want a absolutely smooth finish. No lap marks, no roller stop lines, no overlap, and of course no drips. Using Aura Ben Moore paint, and keeping a wet edge with one guy rolling high and another low overlapping 2-3 roller widths. Second coat still shows heavy light paint and roller stops. We switched from a 3/8 nap to 1/4 because the 3/8 left the texture you see in the picture. The last coat came out much better but still had issues. Impossible?


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## slickshift

I have heard that the microfiber sleeves leave a smoother finish
I have not tried them myself to say from experience
I believe they are 5/16 nap, but supposedly they hold more paint then you think


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## RCP

Is there a reason you cannot spray?


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## tronman

We sprayed in the beginning but it put on too much of a texture. We tried to spray and touch up with rollers - no good. Keep in mind we primed the surface with a gray tinted primer, then top coated with the Aura black eggshell. I think we tried everything except thinning the paint. This stuff is not supposed to require a primer and it is supposed to cover flawlessly in one coat - NOT.


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## slickshift

The "one coat most apps" is a bit of marketing rather than reality
Though if the color is close it's certainly possible

It also has it's own idiosyncrasies (different from other coatings), and has a learning curve
I wouldn't say you could apply it with a trowel and have it look good, but this one (the project in your pics) doesn't look as good as it should

I can't say if you are trying too hard, but as a general rule, even with dark colors, with Aura, maintaining a wet edge is usually not required
I can say Aura does not care for over-rolling or over-brushing, it will lift and drag if not just (properly) applied and left alone
And it will sag if put on too thick-you can't load it up like Regal

And as there is not factory black (it's got to be tinted), I'd make sure all the paint is from the same tint machine...and even the same time

For the same reason (tinted at the dealer) I think the "black" is actually a deep, deep, dark, charcoal
But maybe that just me


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## johnpaint

If you had a clear walk from one side of the wall to the other, how about using a 6' extenion spray pole plus a 619 tip. Spray by walking left to right with out letting up on the gun. Start at the top and work your way across and down. I do this with large open spaces. you must keep a wet edge.Sometimes dark colors with the pigment being large and the heavy grain of the flat paint causes the pigment to lay in different directions .If you are going to roll let the last roll be in a down direction only on all areas. Any time that there is so much pigment loaded in a gallon of paint you can get this.


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## dincao

To me it looks like you used atleast a 1/2 nap if not 3/4 either on the primer or the first coat to have that texture... a 3/8 nap would never have as much texture as the wall you are showing...As for the need to leave a wet edge , in my experience with matte or eggshell it is not necessary it will dry the same..


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## timhag

Doesn't matter what size nap you use as long as you apply evenly. Pole sand what you got there and apply another coat evenly. Thank you.


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## dincao

Hey tim i'm talking about texture,not even application...He wamts smooth not orange peel you smacka**!!!!


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## scpainting

just my opinion; pole sand it and spray with a 317 tip. a good narrow pattern, flip your tip so your spraying up and down, watch your overspray, have a short walkboard so you can finish the whole wall from right to left. who approved dryfall for interior walls?


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## crash

I have used this product many times. It's hard to use and overpriced ($55.00 Gal here in Sacramento).

It is a powder tint base, and don't fall for the ''you don't use pva before painting''.

when ever you have a deep tint paint and lots of open area you have potential problems. I use a 417 to spray it and it comes out fine. I think you are using it correctly (roller on top and bottom at the same time). I do the same thing. However, I would use a 3/4' nap. Put it on heavy and back roll it out good. that should take care of your problem. I have never had sag problems with a back-roll.

Next, tell your customer this is what you get unless you want me to change products. There are other green products that work better and cost less.


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## NE_GA Painting

the only way i have ever been able to get black eggshell, or any sheen of black to look ok was to spray it and have another guy back roll with a 18'' roller and always roll in same direction, keeping the nap texture in one direction. picking the roller up off the wall every time. you got to do it quick though, spray about 12' over top to bottom, roll it out quick, then drop back where you started roll down from top to bottom, move over, then down from top to bottom, don't kris kross or roll up, you know what i mean? if the wall is to big to get from top to bottom in one go or a ceiling, i have never been able to get one perfect, without laps. here's a ceiling i did with black eggshell, talk about a B*tch,, you cant realy tell from the pic but it's NOT perfect. we painted it about 4 time's so i feel your pain man..


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## timhag

dincao said:


> Hey tim i'm talking about texture,not even application...He wamts smooth not orange peel you smacka**!!!!


 Sorry D. Please forgive me.


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## tronman

We originally rolled primer with 3/8 but had to sand the texture down. Then we rolled with 1/4, but the first coat seemed too thin. The final coat was a 3/16 roller. We did not consider back rolling after spraying because when we tried it the roller just created track marks where there was none.


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## chrisn

I cannot imagine ever getting a large black eggshell wall to look perfect, but I think that the friend of bill from ne georgia has the right idea.


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## GMack

tronman said:


> Painting a retail store with black dryfall ceiling and black walls. The walls have no texture and they want a absolutely smooth finish. No lap marks, no roller stop lines, no overlap, and of course no drips. Using Aura Ben Moore paint, and keeping a wet edge with one guy rolling high and another low overlapping 2-3 roller widths. Second coat still shows heavy light paint and roller stops. We switched from a 3/8 nap to 1/4 because the 3/8 left the texture you see in the picture. The last coat came out much better but still had issues. Impossible?


It does look like you have some pretty fat-edged start and stop marks (near the bottom of your pic), which are attributable to to the applicator. I'd like to see you try putting less pressure on the roller, especially at the beginning or end of a stroke . . . Don't know how high the wall is but try to find a way to roll from top to bottom in one long run, switch to two18-inch rollers. Switch to Matte?

Also, it looks like you may be re-rolling areas that have begun to dry. Don't do that. No matter what the product, you can fix something you don't like when it's soaking wet (i.e. you painted it three seconds ago) or when it's bone dry, but never when it's had even the slightest window to begin setting up or isn't quite dry yet.


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## Jeff.Chicago

chrisn said:


> I cannot imagine ever getting a large black eggshell wall to look perfect, but I think that the friend of bill from ne georgia has the right idea.


18 inch sleeve and roll from top to bottom. I did a black wall a few months ago, and it looks perfect! I honestly thought that it was going to turn out bad, but surprisingly enough it was mint. As far as the black that I used it was BM Regal Satin black off the shelf.


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## Jeff.Chicago

tronman said:


> Painting a retail store with black dryfall ceiling and black walls. The walls have no texture and they want a absolutely smooth finish. No lap marks, no roller stop lines, no overlap, and of course no drips. Using Aura Ben Moore paint, and keeping a wet edge with one guy rolling high and another low overlapping 2-3 roller widths. Second coat still shows heavy light paint and roller stops. We switched from a 3/8 nap to 1/4 because the 3/8 left the texture you see in the picture. The last coat came out much better but still had issues. Impossible?



U have A LOT of stops and starts in the middle of the wall and its obvious. Apply the paint with A 18 inch sleeve and make sure you go from top to bottom on your back roll! That is the key to making it perfect!


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## Bender

A lesson from years ago;
"Why do we thin paint?"
"To improve leveling, increase penetration, and reduce viscosity"


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## jack pauhl

Number one that whole wall needs seriously pole sanded smooth. There is no rolling over that the way it is and expect nicer results. Seriously that wall is a mess.

Here-I ripped this from my site. Photo taken wet and 2 hours AFTER i painted it. 










Working with paints with a sheen like eggshell require extra measures vs. rolling flats. Let’s take a look at what you need to know about rolling eggshell paint. 

With a flat wall paint, you can roll the wall any way you want and it typically dries flat and all the same. Rolling eggshell requires all of your rolling to go in one direction. I typically roll an area then move back to the starting point and – starting at the ceiling – make one single stroke or pass down to the baseboard, moving down the wall. You need to keep light pressure on the down stroke and repeat this level of pressure as best you can. Step back and look down the wall as you roll that last pass down. It should look consistent and wet.

To better understand what you are looking for start by doing a 6’ wide area of the wall from ceiling to floor and make all passes down. Then move to the middle of that 6’ area and roll one pass upward. Step to the side and look down the wall – you should be able to see the single pass going the opposite direction. This is what you want to avoid for the optimum finish results.

*What to use*: Use a Wooster Prodooz 3/8” white woven roller cover or similar product - but, if you ask me... except no substitutes, get a prodooz cover. Props to Wooster Brush Company!


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## vermontpainter

jack pauhl said:


> Number one that whole wall needs seriously pole sanded smooth. There is no rolling over that the way it is and expect nicer results. Seriously that wall is a mess.
> 
> Here-I ripped this from my site. Photo taken wet and 2 hours AFTER i painted it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Working with paints with a sheen like eggshell require extra measures vs. rolling flats. Let’s take a look at what you need to know about rolling eggshell paint.
> 
> With a flat wall paint, you can roll the wall any way you want and it typically dries flat and all the same. Rolling eggshell requires all of your rolling to go in one direction. I typically roll an area then move back to the starting point and – starting at the ceiling – make one single stroke or pass down to the baseboard, moving down the wall. You need to keep light pressure on the down stroke and repeat this level of pressure as best you can. Step back and look down the wall as you roll that last pass down. It should look consistent and wet.
> 
> To better understand what you are looking for start by doing a 6’ wide area of the wall from ceiling to floor and make all passes down. Then move to the middle of that 6’ area and roll one pass upward. Step to the side and look down the wall – you should be able to see the single pass going the opposite direction. This is what you want to avoid for the optimum finish results.
> 
> *What to use*: Use a Wooster Prodooz 3/8” white woven roller cover or similar product - but, if you ask me... except no substitutes, get a prodooz cover. Props to Wooster Brush Company!


JP

Are you trying to get manufacturer sponsorship or something? 
Nice to have you aboard. You seem to be sharing alot of helpful technical information.


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## ewingpainting.net

vermontpainter said:


> JP
> Are you trying to get manufacturer sponsorship or something?


:w00t::laughing::lol::lol:


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## jack pauhl

vermontpainter said:


> JP
> 
> Are you trying to get manufacturer sponsorship or something?
> Nice to have you aboard. You seem to be sharing alot of helpful technical information.


No I'm not. If I dont like something from Wooster I have no problem calling them, posting about it or whatever but I also do the same when I do have something good to say about any product I find can benefit a painter doing similar line-of-work I do.


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## daren

jack pauhl said:


> Number one that whole wall needs seriously pole sanded smooth. There is no rolling over that the way it is and expect nicer results. Seriously that wall is a mess.
> 
> Here-I ripped this from my site. Photo taken wet and 2 hours AFTER i painted it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Working with paints with a sheen like eggshell require extra measures vs. rolling flats. Let’s take a look at what you need to know about rolling eggshell paint.
> 
> With a flat wall paint, you can roll the wall any way you want and it typically dries flat and all the same. Rolling eggshell requires all of your rolling to go in one direction. I typically roll an area then move back to the starting point and – starting at the ceiling – make one single stroke or pass down to the baseboard, moving down the wall. You need to keep light pressure on the down stroke and repeat this level of pressure as best you can. Step back and look down the wall as you roll that last pass down. It should look consistent and wet.
> 
> To better understand what you are looking for start by doing a 6’ wide area of the wall from ceiling to floor and make all passes down. Then move to the middle of that 6’ area and roll one pass upward. Step to the side and look down the wall – you should be able to see the single pass going the opposite direction. This is what you want to avoid for the optimum finish results.
> 
> *What to use*: Use a Wooster Prodooz 3/8” white woven roller cover or similar product - but, if you ask me... except no substitutes, get a prodooz cover. Props to Wooster Brush Company!


Now that is a nice looking wall. :notworthy:


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