# How do you guys get such good deals at Sherwin and BM



## cappaint (May 24, 2011)

I always hear you guys talk about your relationship with your SW and BM reps and when I hear your prices they are very low. Seems like they value contractors business a lot more than places where I live.

I went my local SW yesterday and picked up a gallon of peel bond for 50.00 and asked the guy about contractor rates. He asked me if I was in the computer and I said I was so he ran my name and I saved about 2 dollars, lol. 

I asked him if he had a serious discount so I could start using his products and he said something about 5-10,000 gallons a year, and different tiers and so and so. He then gave me a credit card application and said if I get a card I would get 5 free gallons and then we could talk about discounts.


I'll prolly give it a try but I doubt I'll get a substantial discount that will make me want to shop their on the reg. I dont get it...I go by this store all the time and there is 1 car in the parking lot. Another SW just went out of business 20 minutes down the road.

They are a sherwin williams store selling strictly Sw products...you cant tell me that the markup isnt rediculous. I bet they didnt pay more than 25 for that peel bond ****. Wouldnt it be smart for them to make 10 dollars a day off me for a year than to make 25 off me 1 day of the year? I want to use their products but their prices arent realistic.


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## One Coat Coverage (Oct 4, 2009)

You have to prove that you are a player before they will play with you. Go there consistently for a year and then see what happens.


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## cappaint (May 24, 2011)

One Coat Coverage said:


> You have to prove that you are a player before they will play with you. Go there consistently for a year and then see what happens.


 
Doesnt make much sense. 

R they afraid Im just a HO that wants a one time deal? 

Im not gonna shell out there prices for a year in the hopes they grant me a discount. Give me a real discount and you'll see my face everyday...it makes sense for them and me. I mean this store is always DEAD. Could make 5 grand off me in a year with all the **** I buy.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

My SW wasn't interested in working on pricing until I stopped shopping there for half a year and he noticed. I got better pricing after that. But they knew who I was. They gotta notice you before they will deal with ya. Catch 22


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## Wood511 (Dec 13, 2010)

Most contractors in my area only get about 10% off SW stuff unless you are buying truckloads of stuff. BM discounts are more like 25% even for a little guy like me. 

It's business. Don't go there any more than you have to and shop around. They need you more than you need them. Obviously if their prices are too high, the basic laws of economics will soon come knocking on their door.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

cappaint said:


> Doesnt make much sense.
> 
> R they afraid Im just a HO that wants a one time deal?
> 
> Im not gonna shell out there prices for a year in the hopes they grant me a discount. Give me a real discount and you'll see my face everyday...it makes sense for them and me. I mean this store is always DEAD. Could make 5 grand off me in a year with all the **** I buy.



They make 5 grand off of me in a month. :whistling2:

Seriously though, peel bond is not an in house product, the price is not going to change super dramatically with this product line.

As for discounting, ask for the sales rep and go from there. It is a symbiotic relationship, the more you use certain products, the more you can push for a discount on products.

You got to understand, SW and all the big chains are not just interested in total money generated from sales. They look at volumes as well as the money produced on sales per store. The more they see your face, the more apt they are to working on reducing your pricing. Its a wierd world, but by buying from a certain store frequently they see it as volume buying and will work with you more.


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## paintr56 (Jan 21, 2010)

Cappaint. Menards sells peel bond for $20 and change in my area. Shop around. My Glidden price for peel bond is $26 Kind of makes me wonder how much they value my business at Glidden. I know I am small, about a $1000 a month but I don't think that is so small they shouldn't care about my business. I usually buy my sprayers and such at S W just recently they dropped $250 off the price they quoted me on a capspray to meet a price I was given else where.

If you really want to do business with them ask to meet with a rep and bring him proof of what you spent on paint last year.

Jim


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Are you sure xim peelbond is at Menards? I am sure zinsser peel stop is, but I did not think xim products were at any box stores.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

1. Build a relationship first. Formally being in sales, I hated the guys who spent s$%t and wanted big discounts. Become friendly, get to know their names and let them know you. Bring in some doughnuts next time you are waiting for paint to be made. Go to the customer events.

2. Don't try to win the war, pick your battles. Try to get good pricing on one or two items you actually use. When they ask "How come you don't buy ____ from me?" Move to number three.

3. Be prepared. When they want more of your business, or ask what it takes to get it, have proof of what you pay elsewhere. I can tell you for a fact that I get some of the areas best pricing on a particular SW product and I am a small player. But my rep's boss wanted to know why ________ got so much of my business. I had invoices in the truck. After a few deep breaths, he made the deals. Not on everything, but on the stuff I use. ( and the stuff he took away from the other guy)

4. Be patient and willing to EARN the pricing. Very few if any are "given" pricing. We either do it through sheer volume, or because they want to increase their sales with you. Like somebody else said, they gotta know you're a player.

Hang in there. Be patient. Make friends. In a year you'll be surprised.


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## WarlinePainting (May 22, 2011)

cappaint said:


> Doesnt make much sense.
> 
> R they afraid Im just a HO that wants a one time deal?
> 
> Im not gonna shell out there prices for a year in the hopes they grant me a discount. Give me a real discount and you'll see my face everyday...it makes sense for them and me. I mean this store is always DEAD. Could make 5 grand off me in a year with all the **** I buy.


It does make sense. 

Think of the HO that promises you more work if you give them a cheap price for your work. Then you never hear from them again. Imagine how many contractors walk in their store looking for discount pricing but show no loyalty to the store or their products. And then also think of the guys that open accounts and pay bills late or never. It happens a lot. 

Build your relationship with your suppliers with the same effort you build your relationship with your customers. Show loyalty, pay on time and give them a reason to want to build a mutually beneficial relationship with you.

They are in the business to make money selling paint and it doesn't happen by giving big discounts to every guy that walks in the door and asks for one. Don't forget also that those discounts give the painter the ability to offer more competitive pricing so they are also helping their existing accounts by not giving every guy the same price.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

Excellent advice!:notworthy:


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## cappaint (May 24, 2011)

I assumed the guy I was speaking with was a rep. He was the only person in the store, customers and staff included and acted like he owns the joint. He said sign up for a credit account and "I" will give you 5 free gallons and then we can prolly talk pricing. I mite just sign up for the free 5 gallons and pocket the material cost on my next job.


And thanks for the responses. I guess Im mostly looking at it from the stores point of view as opposed to mine. Im guessing that these stores are franchised out and they have total control of what they charge and who they deal with. If it were me, I would want EVERY contractor coming to me regardless of how big they are. 

I just dont get SW's pricing strategy. I know they want to be known as the best and thats why they are so expensive but they have priced so many people out of their product. You cant tell me their stuff is so expensive because it costs more to make then Behr or valspar....Paint is cheap to make, you are pretty much buying a reputation. The thing is not many people know or care if SW is a little better....they walk in the store and feel they are getting gouged. Its no coincidence the place is always dead.

If they lowered their prices by say 25% they would more than makeup for the profit margin with increased volume. 

Im just not sure who their target market is. They dont differentiate themselves to the average HO enuff to make up for the prices. And they dont really seem interested in dealing with contractors who could use their product everyday. This big beautiful SW store on the busiest street in an upscale area just went out of business and I walk into Home Depot and there are 10 people in line. Listen, they can do whatever they want, I just dont get it. THey could be so much better and have such a larger market share if they would do some tweaking.


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## WarlinePainting (May 22, 2011)

BikerBoy - Just saw your new quote compliments of BigBoyPainting. LMAO.


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## cappaint (May 24, 2011)

WarlinePainting said:


> It does make sense.
> 
> Think of the HO that promises you more work if you give them a cheap price for your work. Then you never hear from them again. Imagine how many contractors walk in their store looking for discount pricing but show no loyalty to the store or their products. And then also think of the guys that open accounts and pay bills late or never. It happens a lot.
> 
> ...


 

Apples and Oranges. 


People dont hire you to paint every day. If I'm going to paint someones entire house it would be stupid to give them a discount based on later work because there will be no later work. THey are set for 10 years.

Plus, why would I work for a huge discount for a week when I could make my normal rate at another job?


It's totally different at a retail store. They dont have to suffer for a week making less....they just make less profit on a particular sale. 

If I go into an SW, say Im a contractor, give them a card and say I would like to start using their products if they made it affordable they dont have much to lose. I am looking to buy 15 gallons for a current project. They arent losing money or time. They are still making a profit just less and if they dont give me the discount I walk out and they make no profit. 

Even if I made that purchase and walked out the door and never came back they still made a profit on a sale they would otherwise not have....and chances are the contractor is coming back cause their product is good.


It's more comparable to a car dealer. They know what they paid for car and what they are willing to take. They would LOVE To make a huge profit off each car but if they tried to the lot would just stay full and they would go outa business. Instead, they make a smaller profit and make up for it in volume. There is not a shortage of cars that they can sell and their is not a shortage of paint that SW can buy and sell. There is however a shortage of customers and when you let one walk out of your store that is lost profit. 

Remember it's better to sell 4 cars at a 1000 dollar profit then it is to hold out and sell 1 car for a 3000 dollar profit in the same amount of time. 


You cant compare labor to retail, it doesnt fly.


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## cappaint (May 24, 2011)

paintr56 said:


> Cappaint. Menards sells peel bond for $20 and change in my area. Shop around. My Glidden price for peel bond is $26 Kind of makes me wonder how much they value my business at Glidden. I know I am small, about a $1000 a month but I don't think that is so small they shouldn't care about my business. I usually buy my sprayers and such at S W just recently they dropped $250 off the price they quoted me on a capspray to meet a price I was given else where.
> 
> If you really want to do business with them ask to meet with a rep and bring him proof of what you spent on paint last year.
> 
> Jim


 
Damn. I knew I could find a better deal but didnt really have time. I dont have a menards around here and I didnt know glidden had a peel bond...Do you have a local glidden store or is it at a hardware store?

50 bucks for that crap is outrageous.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Here's another tip:

Build a blog. One of my reps saw a product review for Wooster's Chinex FTP brush.
He just emailed me wanting to know what the logic was behind the paint choice, and can we talk about it next week. (Can you guess how that will go?)


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## Roamer (Jul 5, 2010)

We buy a ton of paint from S/W and we get commensurate pricing as a result. We also get tickets to select games in the S/W skybox at Fed Ex Field for ******* games. I saw the Eagles blow out the Skins on MNF last season from the skybox courtesy of our rep from S/W. 

We typically get both the Eagles and Giants tickets vs the Skins as I am an Eagles fan and the company president is a Giants fan.

Our rep showed up yesterday with four complimentary passes for Congressional Country Club's golf course.

Buy lots of their product and they'll treat you like a king, too.


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## paintr56 (Jan 21, 2010)

DeanV said:


> Are you sure xim peelbond is at Menards? I am sure zinsser peel stop is, but I did not think xim products were at any box stores.



No I am not. My mistake I was thinking peel stop from Zinsser.


Sorry for the misinformation. I have had good success with the Zinsser product.

Jim Bunton


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Buy alot. Pay ontime.


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## Wood511 (Dec 13, 2010)

Roamer said:


> We buy a ton of paint from S/W and we get commensurate pricing as a result. We also get tickets to select games in the S/W skybox at Fed Ex Field for ******* games. I saw the Eagles blow out the Skins on MNF last season from the skybox courtesy of our rep from S/W.
> 
> We typically get both the Eagles and Giants tickets vs the Skins as I am an Eagles fan and the company president is a Giants fan.
> 
> ...


Good for you. I'll never be that big, but I'm glad you are getting stuff like that from S/W. I didn't even think that was possible with those guys...glad to hear it!!!


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## WarlinePainting (May 22, 2011)

I don't think it matters at all if it is apples vs. oranges or product vs. labour. The same principles apply. My analogy about the homeowner was to make the point about having an unproven customer expect a discount based on a loose promise of future business. You wouldn't do it, why should a paint store?

All the advice you are getting here, not just from me, is pretty consistent. If you think you should be entitled to a discount just because you asked for one, don't expect a very big one. 

It comes down to building a relationship and it goes both ways.


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## Goode Painters (Jan 1, 2011)

Wood511 said:


> Good for you. *I'll never be that big*, but I'm glad you are getting stuff like that from S/W. I didn't even think that was possible with those guys...glad to hear it!!!


 
"i'll never be that big"........Stop thinking like that! perhaps it is carrying over in how you present yourself... You should be confident act as if they would get more of your business if the prices were better.. find the compition and wear their shirt/hat in there and play both ends against the middle maybe you will get bettter pricing somewhere else then make them beat it......you gottta play the game! There was some great advice in this thread implement it!!


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## cappaint (May 24, 2011)

WarlinePainting said:


> I don't think it matters at all if it is apples vs. oranges or product vs. labour. The same principles apply. My analogy about the homeowner was to make the point about having an unproven customer expect a discount based on a loose promise of future business. You wouldn't do it, why should a paint store?
> 
> All the advice you are getting here, not just from me, is pretty consistent. If you think you should be entitled to a discount just because you asked for one, don't expect a very big one.
> 
> It comes down to building a relationship and it goes both ways.


 

It does matter tho and I explained why. Like I said they can do whatever they want tho....I will just buy elsewhere and they can stick to their guns.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

If you're a small Guy, build a relationship with a small independent shop. With the corporate oufits, all their discounts have to be justified. If they cut a bad deal...they here about it from those above them. At a smaller shop you can go up the ladder much quicker, with less hoops to jump through. 

We get shopped quite a bit on deck sealer. I hear the "I'm gonna buy a ton so give me a good price.....blah blah blah blah" then the Guy buys 10 gallons all season and you didn't make squat....plus he's run his mouth to his buddies who are now pissed because he got the same price as they did, yet they bought 6 pallets.

My contractor price is the same for everyone...deck sealer I have a tiered system and its an open book. You want the cheapest price...ok its "X"...but to get it you have to purchase "Y" number of gallons now. We do special paint prices on larger than normal jobs.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

By the way, peelbond is 39 retail, 32.50 contractor approximately.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

My question is why would any PC pay shelf price for product? :huh:


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## cappaint (May 24, 2011)

DeanV said:


> By the way, peelbond is 39 retail, 32.50 contractor approximately.


 
That sounds about right to me.....BUT its 50 at my local SW.


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## cappaint (May 24, 2011)

ewingpainting.net said:


> My question is why would any PC pay shelf price for product? :huh:


 
I got what they call their contractor discount...brought it from like 52ish to 49. Thats my point...Im not gonna pay retail at this joint so if they dont want to bargain they lose my bus. OK, Im just one small time outfit....but there are hundreds of small outfits and with those prices and policies you will lose them all. Im not ****ting you....I never see more than 1 car there.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

cappaint said:


> I got what they call their contractor discount...brought it from like 52ish to 49. Thats my point...Im not gonna pay retail at this joint so if they dont want to bargain they lose my bus. OK, Im just one small time outfit....but there are hundreds of small outfits and with those prices and policies you will lose them all. Im not ****ting you....I never see more than 1 car there.


I think you are missing the point, you gotta bite the bullet for awhile just like we all did. Just be cool, don't complain about everything. Make friends, Bring pizza. Maybe if you think they burn, bring them some buds. The biggest mistake you can do is to act like they owe you something just because you are a Painting Contractor. 

Pat


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

Also having a online presence can help. I have been spammed by SW, big time by Frazee and once by Dun Edwards. I just tell them thanks but I'm real loyal and sticking with my local BM paint store. 

Pat


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

PatsPainting said:


> I think you are missing the point, you gotta bite the bullet for awhile just like we all did. Just be cool, don't complain about everything. Make friends, Bring pizza. Maybe if you think they burn, bring them some buds. The biggest mistake you can do is to act like they owe you something just because you are a Painting Contractor.
> 
> Pat


We live in a world where instant gratification is expected. The reality is like you said we all played the game and and worked our way into being recognized contractors. Just what you got to do cap. Either that or simply decide that they are not a good fit for you.


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## cappaint (May 24, 2011)

PatsPainting said:


> I think you are missing the point, you gotta bite the bullet for awhile just like we all did. Just be cool, don't complain about everything. Make friends, Bring pizza. Maybe if you think they burn, bring them some buds. The biggest mistake you can do is to act like they owe you something just because you are a Painting Contractor.
> 
> Pat


 
I appreciate the advice but I think they should want me more than I want them. They should make an attempt to be competitive...they just seem lazy and like they dont care. Go ahead and make 25 bucks a gallon off joe shmoe the homeowner...you wont see them for a few years so u mite as well hammer them. If Im coming in everyday you better be giving me a deal.

I mean, and would a pizza really do it? I would hope they would want thousands of dollars in profits in their pockets over a pizza. I could only guess at the numbers but they sure as hell would make several grand from me over the summer. 

Dont get me wrong, if a customer requests SW I will use it but It wont be my paint of choice.


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## cappaint (May 24, 2011)

Workaholic said:


> We live in a world where instant gratification is expected. The reality is like you said we all played the game and and worked our way into being recognized contractors. Just what you got to do cap. Either that or simply decide that they are not a good fit for you.


 
IDK, I gotta think about I guess. Im pretty sure I would lose a certain amount of bids just on the sheer fact that Im quoting at 45=50 bucks a gallon. MOST people dont care if you use SW...they dont want u using contractor grade watered down garbage but they dont give a **** about SW. Like I said they havent differentiated themselves enuff...If you took a survey of the general public they would prolly say Valspar is the best paint. Im not gonna work my ass off convincing them otherwise for a company that gouges me day in and day out.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

cappaint said:


> I appreciate the advice but I think they should want me more than I want them.


For me I need my local paint store more then they need me. One day you will see what a really good relationship can do. It's not always about pricing. Service, great color matches, there are so many things my store does that makes my job easy. I feel I owe them allot more then just buying their paints.

Pat


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## One Coat Coverage (Oct 4, 2009)

PatsPainting said:


> I think you are missing the point, you gotta bite the bullet for awhile just like we all did. Just be cool, don't complain about everything. Make friends, Bring pizza. Maybe if you think they burn, bring them some buds. The biggest mistake you can do is to act like they owe you something just because you are a Painting Contractor.
> 
> Pat


Bring drugs to the paint store to get a discount on paint? Sounds like a great idea, dude......


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## cappaint (May 24, 2011)

One Coat Coverage said:


> Bring drugs to the paint store to get a discount on paint? Sounds like a great idea, dude......


 
Hey, he's from long beach, cali...give the dude a break.


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## cappaint (May 24, 2011)

PatsPainting said:


> For me I need my local paint store more then they need me. One day you will see what a really good relationship can do. It's not always about pricing. Service, great color matches, there are so many things my store does that makes my job easy. I feel I owe them allot more then just buying their paints.
> 
> Pat


 
That word service gets thrown around alot. Its not like Im getting a back massage and a nice spread of food while im waiting for my paint to mix. I can get color matches anywhere. 

Service translated means overpriced....Im sorry. 

I do go to a small paint shot sometimes and I like seeing the same informed faces to shoot the **** with but at the end of the day price is huge.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Though I think the relationships help tremendously to help lower prices. Those relationships do need encouraging. I don't care how good you think your relationship is with your supplier, as soon as you get cozy, that's when it gets funky. I keep at least 2 suppliers in my pocket, always got to keep them honest.


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## WarlinePainting (May 22, 2011)

Totally agree with Pat on this one. What I get from my paint supplier is more than just pricing. I get a ton of referrals from their stores, I NEVER wait when I walk in, they give us some fun perks throughout the year, they fix mistakes without issue or cost to me and they work with me to help build my business.

Do not under estimate the value of your relationship with your supplier. At some point it will become about more than money and you might find yourself needing them to help fix a problem.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

One Coat Coverage said:


> Bring drugs to the paint store to get a discount on paint? Sounds like a great idea, dude......


You mean you don't blaze with your paint supplier. :huh:


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## Goode Painters (Jan 1, 2011)

if you pm "localpaintpros" they can help you get between teir 4-5 with pricing but you would have to subscribe to their services, however it may be worth it for you it would certainly be a way for you to circumvent the traditional methods and expedit better pricing i will try to find a link to their priceguide.........but they are WAY cheaper then what your getting now!...let me know how it works for you.


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## Goode Painters (Jan 1, 2011)

http://www.localpaintpros.com/images/stories/Web_Site/sw prices and savings.pdf 

here is what they offer


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

WarlinePainting said:


> Totally agree with Pat on this one. What I get from my paint supplier is more than just pricing. I get a ton of referrals from their stores, I NEVER wait when I walk in, they give us some fun perks throughout the year, they fix mistakes without issue or cost to me and they work with me to help build my business.
> 
> Do not under estimate the value of your relationship with your supplier. At some point it will become about more than money and you might find yourself needing them to help fix a problem.


Exactly right. Which Guy will I go out of my way for to help when things go wrong? The Guy that's in my place day in and out, that's honest, gives me good feedback with no BS.....or the Guy that's beaten me up on price, and only my customer until someone throws him a bone on one product and he leaves?

I could make an entire thread about this.


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## One Coat Coverage (Oct 4, 2009)

ewingpainting.net said:


> You mean you don't blaze with your paint supplier. :huh:


I don't "blaze" period. Smoking pot is stooopid.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

WarlinePainting said:


> Totally agree with Pat on this one. What I get from my paint supplier is more than just pricing. I get a ton of referrals from their stores, I NEVER wait when I walk in, they give us some fun perks throughout the year, they fix mistakes without issue or cost to me and they work with me to help build my business.
> 
> Do not under estimate the value of your relationship with your supplier. At some point it will become about more than money and you might find yourself needing them to help fix a problem.


Agree! Recently I had to use a product from a vendor we had never used and we had some issues. My regular rep was way more help than the new rep, and he did not even have a pony in the race.


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## CK_68847 (Apr 17, 2010)

Roamer said:


> We buy a ton of paint from S/W and we get commensurate pricing as a result. We also get tickets to select games in the S/W skybox at Fed Ex Field for ******* games. I saw the Eagles blow out the Skins on MNF last season from the skybox courtesy of our rep from S/W.
> 
> We typically get both the Eagles and Giants tickets vs the Skins as I am an Eagles fan and the company president is a Giants fan.
> 
> ...


How much paint and products do you buy a year there? Money wise?


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Good thread
I agree with cap though. SW is simply overpriced. I'm not asking for mega-super discounts, just be competitive. 


Peelbond comes from xim. Xim sells it to SW (probably cheaper because of volume) just like everybody else. Why is it so much more expensive?


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## CK_68847 (Apr 17, 2010)

Bender said:


> Good thread
> I agree with cap though. SW is simply overpriced. I'm not asking for mega-super discounts, just be competitive.
> 
> 
> Peelbond comes from xim. Xim sells it to SW (probably cheaper because of volume) just like everybody else. Why is it so much more expensive?


To be honest like the one poster said you have to buy a ton from SW to get a deal and even then you still have to keep them honest. We buy a lot of paint from them, and they will will still try to gradually raise their prices little by little until you give another paint store a couple big projects. In our case, if SW is pissing us off like they do every so often, we whack them and use PPG on a couple big projects, and somehow their prices are able to go back down.


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## cappaint (May 24, 2011)

Bender said:


> Good thread
> I agree with cap though. SW is simply overpriced. I'm not asking for mega-super discounts, just be competitive.
> 
> 
> Peelbond comes from xim. Xim sells it to SW (probably cheaper because of volume) just like everybody else. Why is it so much more expensive?


 
Im glad someone agrees with me:thumbup:


When I walk in there I feel like Im at the movies or an amusement park with the markups they charge.


Thing is SW doesnt have the mass marketing ability of the big box stores and they dont differentiate. As PC's we are basically paint salesmen....Every person that I work with asks me what paint I think we should use. It takes convincing and a good sales pitch to tell someone that doesnt know **** about paint that they should spend double...for that I should be getting a commission. Or how about just a good discount?


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

I disagree. Your job should be easier than ever these days. With so much information readily available, my customers both HO & contractor are more informed than ever. The problem lies when people DONT do their homework and rely solely on advertising and propaganda. My job has become less salesman and more order taker/information desk.


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## Roamer (Jul 5, 2010)

CK_68847 said:


> How much paint and products do you buy a year there? Money wise?


We do over 200k with S/W, annually.


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## CK_68847 (Apr 17, 2010)

Roamer said:


> We do over 200k with S/W, annually.


We actually buy quite a bit more than that from SW and its like pulling teeth to get anything out of them. We buy less from PPG and get more perks from them. I think we have a pretty poor district manager in this area which doesnt help.


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## cappaint (May 24, 2011)

CK_68847 said:


> We actually buy quite a bit more than that from SW and its like pulling teeth to get anything out of them. We buy less from PPG and get more perks from them. I think we have a pretty poor district manager in this area which doesnt help.


 

How many people do you employ to use all that product?


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## paintpimp (Jun 29, 2007)

What a great thread! Very inciteful material.
I have a few things to add. 
SW has 3800 plus stores. You will have stores that have sub par managers and reps. 
SW is a publicly traded company. If they dropped their prices by 25% the stockholders would drop the stock fast. Cash flow slows, internal investments cease, stores close. Not a very smart business idea. You say they would make up in volume. They are the largest paint maker in the US and second in the world. If you lowered your labor rates, I bet you would get more work too, but you would be working for nothing. 

Relationship is the key to this whole thread. If you are not involved with a rep, do it. Reps should know their market and about you. They have everything to gain by earning your business. Looking for better pricing? Look for better value. Want someone to come to your jobsite and give you recommendations, talk to your customer about concerns, someone you can call at a moments notice, free delivery, out of stock and need it next day from another store job referalls, notification of special events, free lunches, golfing, fishing and other events, RELATIONSHIP is the key to this. There are so many advantages of using a paint store over a big box location (as long as the paint store is a business partner with you and you have built that relationship). 
NCPaint is a great example of what kind of quality you can receive from a paint store. You will not find that knowledge and commitment in a big box. 
If your local SW has a bad manager and rep, sorry but it could be difficult, but if they are lousy it will be noticed.


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## generalpaint (Dec 15, 2010)

the paint business has just turned into who is the cheapest- no way to change it I guess- very few if any are loyal now, dont beat the SW guy up to much, there is a lengthy process now when dealing with price issues

I like NCpaints idea- are you guys hiring


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

generalpaint said:


> I like NCpaints idea- are you guys hiring


Yes sir. 

Its all a game...you can either play it, or start your own game.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

I sent a text to my SW rep today. I need a price on 0 voc promar 200 for a bid I need to write up tonight. No reply. Guess I'll be going with Benny Moore.

The irony is they wont give me a decent price until I buy more paint


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

generalpaint said:


> the paint business has just turned into who is the cheapest- no way to change it I guess- very few if any are loyal now, dont beat the SW guy up to much, there is a lengthy process now when dealing with price issues
> 
> I like NCpaints idea- are you guys hiring



DUDE!!! You hit the nail on the head! I give great service, the absolute best where I live. I may talk the talk, but that's because I walk the walk (are you hearing me, Ewing?) I love what I do, and I love helping both HO's and Pro's out. But there is hardly any loyalty left anymore. If our competitor down the street has one product for a better price than us, guess where my customers are gonna go? Down the street! That's why every month I have my friends calling, doing price checks for me. To make sure we are under them in pricing. It gets frustrating at times, trust me.

I had always thought it was customer service that counted, but that's just not the case anymore. Like I said, if the guy down the street has a better deal, people don't care if they guy has no painting experience, or the fact he has never read a data sheet OR the back of a paint can!!!! Or that they can't match if their lives depended on it. NOPE! it's all pricing nowadays.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

hammerheart14 said:


> it's all pricing nowadays.


Wrong - I could careless what the price is down the street. As long as my paint store is in business I will buy from them.

Pat


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

hammerheart14 said:


> people don't care if they guy has no painting experience, .


I don't believe this part of your statement is true at all. The bargain hunters either want the best for the least or they are satisfied with less than perfect for the savings but either way they want some experience.


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

Well, damn, I wish we had more painters like you guys in Big Bear!


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

cappaint said:


> Damn. I knew I could find a better deal but didnt really have time. I dont have a menards around here and I didnt know glidden had a peel bond...Do you have a local glidden store or is it at a hardware store?
> 
> 50 bucks for that crap is outrageous.


Get receipts for those products, and ask to speak to the SW store manager. Go to a big one that does a lot of volume. The smaller ones are staffed by mouth breathing idiots in my experience. 

Tell the manager you are new, and would like to get a rep. Once you do that meet with your rep, and show him the competitors prices. He will be forced to match them if he wants to earn your business. 

Most paint of the shelf is marked up more than furniture, so they have plenty of room to work with.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

straight_lines said:


> Most paint of the shelf is marked up more than furniture, so they have plenty of room to work with.


I hate that  I dont have time to play games, or screw around negotiating. Heres the price, if you find a better one speak up. If not, buy a bunch and heres your T-Shirt


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> I hate that  I dont have time to play games, or screw around negotiating. Heres the price, if you find a better one speak up. If not, buy a bunch and heres your T-Shirt


I'm digging the attitude :thumbup:


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

hammerheart14 said:


> DUDE!!! You hit the nail on the head! I give great service, the absolute best where I live. I may talk the talk, but that's because I walk the walk (are you hearing me, Ewing?) I love what I do, and I love helping both HO's and Pro's out. But there is hardly any loyalty left anymore. If our competitor down the street has one product for a better price than us, guess where my customers are gonna go? Down the street! That's why every month I have my friends calling, doing price checks for me. To make sure we are under them in pricing. It gets frustrating at times, trust me.
> 
> I had always thought it was customer service that counted, but that's just not the case anymore. Like I said, if the guy down the street has a better deal, people don't care if they guy has no painting experience, or the fact he has never read a data sheet OR the back of a paint can!!!! Or that they can't match if their lives depended on it. NOPE! it's all pricing nowadays.


I am very loyal to Vista Paints. I am very happy with their service and their quality products. I don't beat them down on prices, as I don't want the service to suffer. I do however expect better pricing than shelf pricing, but not the cheapest price. The only time I request for special prices, is on job accounts, and they deliver every time. I also love the fact they carry Benjamin Moore now. I think I'm gonna wear my Vista Paints shirt tomorrow.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

ewingpainting.net said:


> I'm digging the attitude :thumbup:


Im just so done with games. They way I look at it, is that we're all in it together. Theres too much me VS you going on. 

I like loyalty, dont get me wrong, but its impossible to use the same supplier on every single job. It just cant happen, or it will cost you work. We're all on the road together, and sometimes our paths cross....its that simple.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

I agree, the low bidding totem poll is falling over, though there will always be someone raising it back up. I'm seeing the same attitude among contractors, both subs a prime as the suppliers are getting tough too. I'm getting more and more pre-qualifications before they even release plans. I think their finding going the lowest bidder isn't working. I love it!


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## CK_68847 (Apr 17, 2010)

cappaint said:


> How many people do you employ to use all that product?


We are at 47 right now. In the winter we drop from 35 to 40.


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## cappaint (May 24, 2011)

I really dont get the whole service thing. Is that just code for "they give me referalls"? If it is I thinks it's great. I would pay extra for paint if the joint gave me a steady stream of good leads.

But other than leads whats the big deal about service? Every place I walk into can match a color. Every place I walk into mixes and shakes my paint and Im on my way.

Some are more knowledgeable but its my job to know what im buying and waht it does. I've had people at the big box stores AND the premium joints BS me to try and sell a product. Read the can, use google, etc. 


There is a small pitt paint dealer near me where i like the people but I still have to act in my own self interest. I will use them wen it makes sense...wen it doesnt I wont.


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## cappaint (May 24, 2011)

CK_68847 said:


> We are at 47 right now. In the winter we drop from 35 to 40.


 
That is impressive. How do you manage it all? Do you have foremen and small crews or do you throw a lot of people at a job at once?


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

cappaint said:


> I really dont get the whole service thing.


I think you don't get it because you have never experienced it. I dunno how to explain it, Its not just walking in there and getting your paint, or them referring you to a HO, or them matching a color for you. I'm guessing you have not been at this that long or if you have you just had some bad luck.

One day hopefully you will figure it out.

I tend to listen to the guys behind the desk, most of them have been behind the counter for years and years. Even though they don't apply the stuff on a regular basis, they get feed back from people who do.

Take today for an example - I asked them about a water base primer I could put over oil. They were out of this zinser product I have used in the past. They pointed me towards the new fresh start advance primer. I said cool, I try it out and give some feed back. That chit was amazing, covered great, stuck like a mofo, after 4 hours or so I could not scratch it off. They then told me not get all excited about it covering stains and wood tannings like it says on the can. The feedback they have was not good in that department. 

Anyway, don't always judge a book by its cover. Them fookers behind the counter can help you out.

Pat


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

PatsPainting said:


> I think you don't get it because you have never experienced it. I dunno how to explain it, Its not just walking in there and getting your paint, or them referring you to a HO, or them matching a color for you. I'm guessing you have not been at this that long or if you have you just had some bad luck.
> 
> One day hopefully you will figure it out.
> 
> ...


Did you give them some buds?


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## cappaint (May 24, 2011)

ewingpainting.net said:


> did you give them some buds?


 
lol..


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## cappaint (May 24, 2011)

PatsPainting said:


> I think you don't get it because you have never experienced it. I dunno how to explain it, Its not just walking in there and getting your paint, or them referring you to a HO, or them matching a color for you. I'm guessing you have not been at this that long or if you have you just had some bad luck.
> 
> One day hopefully you will figure it out.
> 
> ...


 


I know one just like that. Dude from the ukrane who's about 60 and funny as ****. I've gotten some great tips from him but generally I try to do my research before I walk in to buy.

My point is research is free if you plan ahead. Now, if you get great advice and a good price then you win twice. But Im not payin double for tools at some little joint because a guy gave me a good tip once.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

cappaint said:


> I know one just like that. Dude from the ukrane who's about 60 and funny as ****. I've gotten some great tips from him but generally I try to do my research before I walk in to buy.
> 
> My point is research is free if you plan ahead. Now, if you get great advice and a good price then you win twice. But Im not payin double for tools at some little joint because a guy gave me a good tip once.



The problem from researching or at least here in SoCal is things are changing on a daily basis. You could do a search, spend some time, find the right product then go look for it and its not available due to exceeding the voc limits. To me, I would just rather ask the guys at the paint store whats the best as of right now. 

Pat


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## LocalPaintPros (Mar 14, 2011)

Goode Painters said:


> if you pm "localpaintpros" they can help you get between teir 4-5 with pricing but you would have to subscribe to their services, however it may be worth it for you it would certainly be a way for you to circumvent the traditional methods and expedit better pricing i will try to find a link to their priceguide.........but they are WAY cheaper then what your getting now!...let me know how it works for you.


There is a banner ad running on PaintTalk now so you can just click there.


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## Goode Painters (Jan 1, 2011)

Hey Cap heres an example of good service; My sprayer breaks down ( something on the circuit board blew) i call my local sw and ask if they have their rental in and of course they didnt; However, they get the rental from the next store over bring it out to my job and im back in business. I get to keep the rental -no charge until my sprayer is fixed......thats service.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Goode Painters said:


> Hey Cap heres an example of good service; My sprayer breaks down ( something on the circuit board blew) i call my local sw and ask if they have their rental in and of course they didnt; However, they get the rental from the next store over bring it out to my job and im back in business. I get to keep the rental -no charge until my sprayer is fixed......thats service.


My local sw is the best in service that way as well. They will do anything they possibly can to help, and usually that means making sure that we dont have any hiccups in the field related to their stuff. Not all manufacturers have the presence and the resources in the field to do that.


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## Roamer (Jul 5, 2010)

There are too many examples to mention but here is a small one: 4 weeks prior to the job starting I ordered 600 gallons of custom colored blockfiller.

Two days prior to the job I go to pick up some of the paint. The store tells me they have no record of the order and that it will take at least a week to fill the order. I need the paint now for a job that starts in two days. We were scheduled to paint a parking garage and the garage has closed the bulk of the areas that we were going to paint.

I called our SW rep to see if he could pull off a miracle and get me this paint in time. He asked me if I could meet the delivery truck at the jobsite later that day. I said sure and they delivered 600 gallons with only a few hours notice and save my bacon. 

If I ever need a spec written or a draw down done I call my rep and he gets right on it. Need MSDS sheets or Product Data Sheets and he hits me up in spades. Need an onsite visit to determine the best course of action. Need tickets to see the Eagles kick the Redskins ass and he is right there with the tickets and parking pass.


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## paintpimp (Jun 29, 2007)

cappaint said:


> I really dont get the whole service thing. Is that just code for "they give me referalls"? If it is I thinks it's great. I would pay extra for paint if the joint gave me a steady stream of good leads.
> 
> But other than leads whats the big deal about service? Every place I walk into can match a color. Every place I walk into mixes and shakes my paint and Im on my way.
> _In a Paint store, a paint guy if not expert is mixing, matching, shaking and making sure you have the right products. Not the guy from electrical dept that had to fill in for the day. How long does it take before you are on your way? You can call ahead to a paint store and be in and out within 2 minutes. Would you like to have the confidence that you are being helped by a Paint Professional?_
> ...


You need to change your attitude about service and paint reps. Yes, there are bad ones, but mostly there are good ones. They want to make you successful. The more successful you are, the more you buy. This is two way relationship. You need to put in and have a partner beside you out there. The previous posts just some of the advantages of having a rep and a good service store. 
Service in a store or rep can get you:
Job Leads, Inform you of new products that can make your job easier. Special order products that aren't stocked normally. Come to your jobsite and give you a recommendation. Inform you of new laws that affect you (RRP lead, OSHA fall law) Take you to lunch or sporting event, Talk to your customers about concerns of a painting system, Cover your butt when you screw up a paint job, inform you of special deals and sales, fix your sprayer, investigate products or methods for you, special credit terms, helping you collect money, free shirts and hats for your employees, spec writing, submittals, draw downs, free paint, free brushes and rollers, Free and Fast delivery (get that from your big box), I would rather have a paint store employee behind me rather than an orange schmock. Do yourself a favor and change your attitude and become a partner with a paint store that wants to be a partner with you.


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## Mike's QP (Jun 12, 2008)

:thumbup:


paintpimp said:


> You need to change your attitude about service and paint reps. Yes, there are bad ones, but mostly there are good ones. They want to make you successful. The more successful you are, the more you buy. This is two way relationship. You need to put in and have a partner beside you out there. The previous posts just some of the advantages of having a rep and a good service store.
> Service in a store or rep can get you:
> Job Leads, Inform you of new products that can make your job easier. Special order products that aren't stocked normally. Come to your jobsite and give you a recommendation. Inform you of new laws that affect you (RRP lead, OSHA fall law) Take you to lunch or sporting event, Talk to your customers about concerns of a painting system, Cover your butt when you screw up a paint job, inform you of special deals and sales, fix your sprayer, investigate products or methods for you, special credit terms, helping you collect money, free shirts and hats for your employees, spec writing, submittals, draw downs, free paint, free brushes and rollers, Free and Fast delivery (get that from your big box), I would rather have a paint store employee behind me rather than an orange schmock. Do yourself a favor and change your attitude and become a partner with a paint store that wants to be a partner with you.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

Another vote for the service from Sherwin Williams!


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## cappaint (May 24, 2011)

My attitude will change when the reality around me does. 

Currently there are 2 SW stores within a convenient drive. They both have a 25-30 year old working the desk that seem to know very little and have shown almost no interest in my business. 

Me-"hey would u guys be interested in working with me on prices, i am a contractor and 54.00 for a gallon of trim paint isnt very competitive"


Them-"yehhhh....ummmm....well we can give you the preferred discount and bring it down to, um, well....51.00....yehhh...this stuff is just really expensive."


To me, SW seems like a mcdonalds franchise...or more accurately a verizon franchise. Young dude just hanging out in the store with a polo on chillin.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

cappaint said:


> My attitude will change when the reality around me does.
> 
> Currently there are 2 SW stores within a convenient drive. They both have a 25-30 year old working the desk that seem to know very little and have shown almost no interest in my business.
> 
> ...


Hey, I'm 30...31 in a couple days...ugh. 

I don't think its the age, its the quality of the employee. The 2 Sw's near me are hit or miss. One has a great manager, but dopey employees. The manager and I get along well, and send business back and forth. He second store just irritate their customers, or so I keep hearing. 

It just seems that they put little value on their employees, at least the majority. Most are part time making a sliver over minimum wage. So why be surprised that your employees put little value on the company they work for. This is their model, and the model of most large corporations these days.


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## LocalPaintPros (Mar 14, 2011)

cappaint said:


> My attitude will change when the reality around me does.
> 
> Currently there are 2 SW stores within a convenient drive. They both have a 25-30 year old working the desk that seem to know very little and have shown almost no interest in my business.
> 
> ...


You need to talk to the Manager, or better yet, get connected with a Sales Rep. I would be surprised if the hourly rate guys at the counter can make more than token pricing decisions on their own. In general, SW has 5 "standard" discount tiers, and the best even a Store Manager can do for you is the middle tier (3rd of 5). But if you're big enough to warrant going beyond that, you'll have a rep assigned to you anyway. 

The Managers, Asst Managers, your Rep, and their bosses are the guys you want to cultivate relationships with. But dont forget the counter hel, either, as those are the guys who will bust it out to get your order filled fast, or a match pushed through when you need it. Like anything else, just walking in and acting like you're entitled doesn't mean you are. It's a 2-way street.


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

LocalPaintPros said:


> You need to talk to the Manager, or better yet, get connected with a Sales Rep. I would be surprised if the hourly rate guys at the counter can make more than token pricing decisions on their own. In general, SW has 5 "standard" discount tiers, and the best even a Store Manager can do for you is the middle tier (3rd of 5). But if you're big enough to warrant going beyond that, you'll have a rep assigned to you anyway.
> 
> The Managers, Asst Managers, your Rep, and their bosses are the guys you want to cultivate relationships with. But dont forget the counter hel, either, as those are the guys who will bust it out to get your order filled fast, or a match pushed through when you need it. Like anything else, just walking in and acting like you're entitled doesn't mean you are. It's a 2-way street.


And remember, as a store manager, I AM WILLING to cut down prices, give better discounts, but I have to see some effort first. If you come in my store, first time I EVER SEE YA, and demand the best price available, it's not going to work. But if I see that you are buying material consistently, i can work you up to the best price available, and even beat other prices. So if you make an effort, i do too. I just hate it when a painter come sin and says he is a big time guy down the hill and wants to get this product at this price. then if I did give it to him, never see the guy again anyways. you gotta work at it!


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## cappaint (May 24, 2011)

hammerheart14 said:


> And remember, as a store manager, I AM WILLING to cut down prices, give better discounts, but I have to see some effort first. If you come in my store, first time I EVER SEE YA, and demand the best price available, it's not going to work. But if I see that you are buying material consistently, i can work you up to the best price available, and even beat other prices. So if you make an effort, i do too. I just hate it when a painter come sin and says he is a big time guy down the hill and wants to get this product at this price. then if I did give it to him, never see the guy again anyways. you gotta work at it!


 
Im not claiming to be a big time buyer. I'll buy 15 gallons here, 10 there, etc. But over the year it adds up.

I get where you're coming from but Im not going to pay there outrageous prices for a year in the hopes I earn some trust. It's not goin to happen. 

The trim paint i bought there the other day wasnt even that impressive for 51 bucks so f-it. I'll be fine without their products.


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## CK_68847 (Apr 17, 2010)

cappaint said:


> That is impressive. How do you manage it all? Do you have foremen and small crews or do you throw a lot of people at a job at once?


We run a lot of crews. We have had guys with us for many years, plus its a family business. The big key is putting a guy in place who knows how to run a job. For instance we have some older guys who can't do much physically anymore, but you will put a few younger guys with them. With their experience running jobs, they put the guys in the right place to be most efficient. On the other side you might have one guy who is more blow and go, and another guy who is a better finish painter. You just have to put everyone in the right place.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Damn CK! That almost sounds like... Management!


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## Gmann (Sep 8, 2011)

In my humble opinion, these are the best ways to start getting better prices at SW, BM or any other paint dealer.

1) If you don't already, start a charge account with the store/company. First, if you don't feel comfortable charging your purchases just pay for them at the time of purchase. But setting up a charge account should definatly put you on the radar as a player. 

2) Get to know the assisstant manager and manager of the store you want to deal with. If you always are talking to the afternoon part time help, you will never get the opportunity to get the "deep discounts".

3)Understand how the orginization you are dealing with is set up. As for SW, the best store managers are promoted to sales reps. If you don't have one, or don't know who your rep is FIND OUT. When your dealing with a rep, you are usually dealing with someone who has sold alot of paint at the store level and has been promoted to sales rep. They usually were not succesful at the store level by not dealing with customers. 

4)Finally, ease into your pricing objections. When you are first starting out or switching to a new company. Sit down with the rep and let them know what your core business is and what product spread you intend to use. And absolutley bring in invoices from other companies. I would expect you to get very good pricing on at least five-ten core products you intend to use regularly, and by setting up a charge account you will get the standard discount on the rest of your items. After awhile, when you have built a relationship with the store manager and sales rep, it's time to bring up other products and pricing. 

Remember, the people behind the counter don't come up with the standard pricing for the products in the store, but they can make the decision to lower your price. I can guarantee they get beat up on price everyday, by many customers, and if the first thing you bring up everytime is pricing you may lose your chance to build that symbiotic relationship with your store.

Just my two cents.


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