# Sick to my stomach!



## BAMMER24 (Jan 7, 2018)

OK I understand I am new here, if you do not want to help, I understand, but I'm at a loss for what may be happening. Kind of a longer story so sorry in advance and any help is much appreciated. Sooooo here is goes:
We're beginning to remodel our kitchen and since it has stained honey trim, we cannot find options that complement what we want to do. So me being me, having been in general construction/remodel projects for years, decided to paint the stained trim. Yep, no prob! So I did some trial and error in my stairway to the basement to make sure my prep and procedures were good to go throughout my kitchen and dining room. In the stairway I sanded with 120 grit and went an additional step of applying some liquid de-glosser. Then thoroughly cleaned with tsp on a scotchbrite pad. Applied Zinnser Multipurpose primer and then applied to coats of SW ProClassic. Came out beautiful and perfect. After talking with others that have done such work, I was recommended to use Bullseye 123 for a better prime and add some Floetrol to lessen the brushmarks (there was some). So as I moved into my kitchen I prepped the same way, primed with 123 and put on the first topcoat that had 2 ounces of Floe added to 1 gallon. Next day, alligator cracking everywhere. WTF?!? Did some more research and found some people have issues with TSP and 123. So, I strip all crown and base down to barewood, smoothed and clean with krudkutter and rinse thoroughly with clean warm water. Apply 123 again and TESTED with SW PC on about a 4 ft piece. Alligator cracking. WTF?! Larger easier to see cracking where it looks like the paint sat a little thicker and smaller cracking in the other, flatter areas. I'm at a loss of words and direction because I cannot imagine going through stripping all the trim again if this fracking 123 is my issue. Been painting for awhile, have NEVER had issues like this. I replaced the window trim with some preprimer trim (instead of stripping) that I primered with 123 at the same time so after seeing the cracking again I did a test there, but still waiting on results. Once again, sorry for the longest post of the year (so far) but felt it would be important to give you the necessary steps.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

I'm not gonna lock this one up, because for a short while some of the folks on here might have some help for you but eventually this is gonna get locked up. Just a suggestion, but you might find some help over here.

Thanks for posting on _PaintTalk.com._ The Moderators of this forum would prefer that you post Do It Yourself related topics on our sister site www.DIYChatroom.com .

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## BAMMER24 (Jan 7, 2018)

My apologies and thank you for the recommendation.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

You shouldn't have veered from your original system.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Not cleaning off the tsp is most likely most of the problem


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

123.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Certainly there are better primer to use than 123 but i can't imagine that causing the issue. Is floetrol 'compatible' with ProClassic (which one?)?


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

Floetrol is compatible but not ideal for Proclassic. Floetrol is old school latex/acrylic thinner. ProClassic is a styrenated acrylic, so it needs the newer style thinners like XIM. In my experience floetrol actually made the Proclassic a thicker consistancy. If this was the case, the film build on Proclassic may have been over applied and mud cracking (or whatever they call it on enamel) would have occured. If the primer cracked before the enamel, TSP is your culprit.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

WHICH PROCLASSIC? There's three of them!


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## dirtyjeep01 (Dec 19, 2015)

chrisn said:


> Not cleaning off the tsp is most likely most of the problem




Water based 123? Sucks. It will alligator if too much put on. Less is more.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

PACman said:


> WHICH PROCLASSIC? There's three of them!


He is using the acrylic. I asked him that on the diy forum.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Fyi, all zinsser primers' data sheets say to NOT use TSP as a cleaner before using them. Us Dirtex. In fact both California and Pratt & Lambert warn against using TSP. It is an old school product that should only be used under alkyd paints. It leaves behind a residue that will effect most water based paints. I have known this since 1984! Why it continues to be used is one of my greatest mysteries! Probably because every damn "sales person" in every damn box store and SW store in the country just wants to sell the customer what the customer says they want and they don't care or know what the customer SHOULD be using to make a proper recommendation. I would bet money that every years SW deals with hundreds of product complaints that are caused by TSP residue. AND i would bet that every year another batch of SW assistant store mangers is told not to recommend using TSP. BUT when it comes to recommending a product to a customer, they still just sell them the TSP. It's the path of least resistance and what everyone does to make a sale.

HINT: ANY legit paint store will recommend NOT using TSP 
HINT#2: They will have Dirtex on the shelf to sell in it's place AND
HINT#3: They will warn you of the potential problems associated with using TSP

If your paint store or supplier doesn't do these things in my opinion you need to find another paint store. This TSP **** has been going on WAY to long and it has to stop!

SAY NO TO TSP!


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

Does the same thing apply to TSP substitute?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Woodco said:


> Does the same thing apply to TSP substitute?


Good point! 

I only use the Jasco TSP substitute (not the old school trisodium phosphate crystals) and have never had a problem.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

I have one lady that buys the real stuff to add into her laundry and dishwasher.

The pink bottle says it doesn't need any rinsing when diluted? How could that be?


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Ok, so the OP hasn't been back on here since an hour after the first post three days ago. They've either gotten our advice or that from the DIY site. Time to lock this puppy up? If you guys want to discuss the merits or lack thereof of TSP, which obviously wouldn't be a bad idea from the looks of things let's start a new thread and let this one cascade into the abyss.


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