# Primer Options for Pine



## ROOMINADAY (Mar 20, 2009)

Preamble:

I have a large house we have just started taping and then will prime and paint. The builder is custom making all the base, casing and Boston headers from clear pine. Client wants it painted CC40. We will prime in the shop, and spray one coat on the base and apply finish coats on site once fitted and filled.

I have ordered a few sets of Erecta-rack for this project (could have used it 100 times already.

Anyway, it seems no matter what primer I use, or house we are in, eventually we will see some staining down the road on clear pine. Some times it's from tannins knots other times just a general yellowing around wood grain patterns.

This builder is trying to not use MDF so I want to make sure that I am using the best products available to me. On the shelf in my small town I have these for oil:

BIN ( I spot prime knots with this)
Odorless Oil (just started using it more often)
Cover Stain (I use this all the time)
Para Oil Primer
BM FreshStart Oil
INSUL-X ???- It's oil and I used this on those cabinets (My BM dealer just started to stock this)

Sherwin Williams is 2 hours away but they can ship to me. 


So...What primer would you use that you have had positive, long term field experience on Pine. 

Is there a WB that actually works yet on this wood?


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

I'd be using Cover Stain with a little linseed oil. California Paints make a water born that is supposed to block tannin bleed, but never used it. 

Have you ever had problems with Cover Stain? That's pretty much my go to stuff.

Used California Paints Troubleshooter alkyd primer on a problem cedar repaint. Its still good a couple years later.


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## ROOMINADAY (Mar 20, 2009)

I have had some pine fimger joint crown tannin bleed after cs and some jambs here and there. My kitchen window stool is starting to yellow. I cs them as well about 1.2 yrs ago.

It is humid in the summer here so I wonder if that has any bearing?


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

If the humidity goes up and down a lot so the wood shrinks and grow, that may hurt the joints. Kinda sqeezing out sap/tannins. 

Other than BIN, not sure what else to use.


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

Well if you don't mind the fumes and having the product shipped to you, then this is probably the best thing for this type of project. You could also try this which is waterborne but I haven't tried it yet myself (though i've been pretty pleased with everything else of theirs i've tried so far).


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## robladd (Nov 22, 2010)

You can also consider SW Sherwood Chem-Aqua Pigmented Lacquer Primer.

Zinsser B-I-N is the way to go with this type of material.


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## Roadog (Apr 18, 2007)

BIN......Shellac has a Proven record for at least 500 years! No since re-inventing. Works for me. I usually coat, light sand, and coat again. But usually one coat flys.

The Odorless oil quick dry sucks. Used it yesterday and had tannin bleed today, on oak.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

Clear pine is clear pine because it doesn't have much in the way of tannins. I've used all sorts of primers from waterborne to oil - and honestly the cheapest stuff on the shelves does just fine. Bin/Shellac is a problem solving primer - something I wouldn't use on a consistent basis if I could help it. Unless of course you like those fumes, the loads of spatter, and constantly throwing out brushes. Who puts linseed oil in cover stain???? 
What is that cheap man's exterior oil primer when you do that? Honestly, the less I care about this stuff the better the work becomes.


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## Roadog (Apr 18, 2007)

plainpainter said:


> Clear pine is clear pine because it doesn't have much in the way of tannins. I've used all sorts of primers from waterborne to oil - and honestly the cheapest stuff on the shelves does just fine. Bin/Shellac is a problem solving primer - something I wouldn't use on a consistent basis if I could help it. Unless of course you like those fumes, the loads of spatter, and constantly throwing out brushes. Who puts linseed oil in cover stain????
> What is that cheap man's exterior oil primer when you do that? Honestly, the less I care about this stuff the better the work becomes.


 LOL....I'm a professional. I use drop cloths. I clean my brushes. Fumes...its denatured alcohol. What you cant smell in cheap and odorless stuff is worse.


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

Many times you can "get away" with almost anything like Plainpainter says. However, there are also many times, based on lots of different variables when you can not. If I am finishing with an oil-maybe satin impervo, I am not quite as concerned and might be tempted to use a waterborne primer depending on circumstances. When you are looking for the most fool proof system, especially if you will be finishing with a waterborne product then the Bin is my go to product. The other advantage of Bin is that it sands out very well and you can get a top quality finish with it if you use it properly. I know there are those who say it is too brittle and not flexible enough to use as an undercoater, but I have never had a problem of that sort. Many years ago I was reluctant to use it on any large scale because of the obvious issues that Dan points out, but once you stop fighting it and get it figured out, it really works well. I'm a big fan of the bug sh!t. Lots of fans to get some air movement and the fumes dissipate as soon as it is dry which as you know is pretty damn fast.

PS. be prepared-$45/gal the other day


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

Nothing has me running out of a room like denatured alcohol - PPG use to make a really cheaply priced interior/exterior oil primer similar to coverstain. It was called 'Max-Kill'
and I always thought it was called that because it was after the maximum amount of people it could kill with sniffing the fumes. I had to use a respirator using that stuff.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

plainpainter said:


> . Who puts linseed oil in cover stain????
> What is that cheap man's exterior oil primer when you do that? Honestly, the less I care about this stuff the better the work becomes.


 
Let answer in order:

Linseed oil is in many primers and oil paints already. It helps flow and brusing while slowing the dry time a bit and a slower dry time can increase the amount of product absorbed by wood before drying. No different than adding Penetrol in that respect.

I like Cover Stain and I like the way it works with linseed oil in it.

Something the old timers I grew up around did, and I just kept at it.(also soak my new oil brushes in linseed oil, then clean them with turps before using)

A. "Linseed oil is a "drying oil", as it can polymerize into a solid form. Due to its polymer-forming properties, linseed oil is used on its own or blended with other oils, resins, and solvents as an impregnator and varnish in wood finishing, as a pigment binder in oil paints, as a plasticizer and hardener in putty and in the manufacture of linoleum. The use of linseed oil has declined over the past several decades with the increased use of synthetic alkyd resins, which are functionally similar but resist yellowing"

B."_Linseed Oil:_

_Uses: Linseed oil was reviewed as a wood preservative, sealer, polish, wax, and finish. It is used as an alternative to solvent-based products designed for the same uses._

_Summary: Linseed oil's efficacy as a wood preservative and sealer is fairly well documented in the scientific literature, although it does take several days to dry. Linseed is available in two forms: raw and boiled. Boiled linseed, commonly used because it dries faster, is not a good pollution prevention alternative due to the potential toxicity of the solvents, metals and fungicides that are usually added to it. As a result, consumers should be advised to use raw linseed oil and to avoid boiled or thermalyzed forms. Gloves should be worn to avoid skin irritation. Linseed soaked rags present a flammability hazard and may spontaneously combust; therefore they should be placed outside to dry, cleaned after use, or placed in an airtight container._

_Efficacy: Linseed oil is a common ingredient in paints and varnishes and can be used alone as a wood finish and preservative. When compared to thicker coatings, linseed oil shows improved penetration into wood. Raw linseed oil can take up to three weeks to dry. Additives in boiled linseed oil decrease its drying time to 16 hours._

_Environmental: No existing information was found on the environmental effects._

_Health: Raw linseed oil is practically non-toxic. *It has historically been used as a laxative.* It is well absorbed through biological membranes such as the stomach and skin. Linseed oil is moderately irritating to the skin and is known to contain potent allergens. Cautions against the use of boiled linseed oil are common in health literature due to toxicological concerns about its additives. Thermopolymerized linseed oil may be toxic to the liver._ 

I know you are so much smarter than anyone else here, so I am sorry to bore you. After all, how can my intellect copmpare to a failed painter and Physics dropout.

Pay attention to the laxative part, think you need to take a dump


_Honestly, the less I care about this stuff the better the work becomes:_

If you don't care, get lost. People are tired of your has been know it all butt anyway. You ain't a painter, they ought to ban you. The only logical reason for you to be here is to be an irritant, which just shows how immature and petty you are.

Go sell some leads or build your goofy "lead tracking site". Accomplish something in this life other than whinning about how unfair its been and how smart you are.


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## Andyman (Feb 21, 2009)

I enjoyed the insight there Biker. I learned somthin new today.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Been using insulx on the last few jobs. So far I like what I see both in wb and alcohol. Haven't tried the oil yet. I would do wb, and then hit the knots with a rattle can of oil primer.


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## ROOMINADAY (Mar 20, 2009)

PS. be prepared-$45/gal the other day[/QUOTE]


59.00 A Gallon Here - retail!


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## ROOMINADAY (Mar 20, 2009)

straight_lines said:


> Been using insulx on the last few jobs. So far I like what I see both in wb and alcohol. Haven't tried the oil yet. I would do wb, and then hit the knots with a rattle can of oil primer.


I looked at the TDS on Insulx Prime Lock and it is recommend for tannins and specifically say's to Shellac pine knots. The prime lock dies bullet proof hard and is hard to scratch off when cured.

I am spraying this so a 59/gallon primer does not make sense and I have always viewed BIN as a problem solver.

I think I will hit the knots with BIN and flip a coin on a primer Oil/ Alcohol/ H20. All the TDS's read exactly the same, field experience dictates otherwise... Aqua Lock looks promising for a WB.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

bikerboy said:


> Let answer in order:
> 
> Linseed oil is in many primers and oil paints already. It helps flow and brusing while slowing the dry time a bit and a slower dry time can increase the amount of product absorbed by wood before drying. No different than adding Penetrol in that respect.
> 
> ...


Biker - you are such a joke. First of all, no dropout here - I graduated cum laude, if you even know what that means. Secondly, I know all about linseed oil - do you grind your own pigments too? Linseed oil has properties important for an exterior oil primer - but has no use in an interior application. You still use turps? Maybe it's time you left the 70s. We have all sorts of nifty products now, like latex enamels, washable flat paints, and urethanized latex primers - low temp paint, heck most high end paints are even self priming!


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

ROOMINADAY said:


> I looked at the TDS on Insulx Prime Lock and it is recommend for tannins and specifically say's to Shellac pine knots. The prime lock dies bullet proof hard and is hard to scratch off when cured.
> 
> I am spraying this so a 59/gallon primer does not make sense and I have always viewed BIN as a problem solver.
> 
> I think I will hit the knots with BIN and flip a coin on a primer Oil/ Alcohol/ H20. All the TDS's read exactly the same, field experience dictates otherwise... Aqua Lock looks promising for a WB.


$59 a gallon. :blink:

I will post up some pics from pine, and spruce stock I primed this week. Carpenters were using it today, some cased openings and sills. Didn't get a chance to put a finish coat on before they installed. It looked ok all but the knots though from what I saw.

Usually works out pretty efficient to just use the rattle can on them. :thumbsup:


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

ROOMINADAY said:


> I am spraying this so a 59/gallon primer does not make sense and I have always viewed BIN as a problem solver.
> 
> .


Exactly - it's a problem solver product. It is absolutely needed to block tannins from knots - but other than that - it's just superfluous primer. There are stain blocking interior primers, that contain stain blocking pigments - after you spot the knots with BIN, anything over that is fine.


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

ROOMINADAY said:


> PS. be prepared-$45/gal the other day



59.00 A Gallon Here - retail![/QUOTE]

ouch!


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## RaleighPainter (Jun 13, 2011)

I think SW Shellac primer is cheaper wouldn't that be comparable?


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Insulx and SW shellac are exactly the same price for me. Actually Insulx is cheaper and a better primer, the same price if I get SW shellac in fives.


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## ROOMINADAY (Mar 20, 2009)

BIN was around $35 less than 5 months ago and then it went through the roof. I get a discount off of the 59.00.


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

plainpainter said:


> Exactly - it's a problem solver product. It is absolutely needed to block tannins from knots - but other than that - it's just superfluous primer. There are stain blocking interior primers, that contain stain blocking pigments - after you spot the knots with BIN, anything over that is fine.


 If you are looking for a nice finish on raw trim the BIN will sand out as well and better than most primers. Prime a wood 6 panel with an acrylic primer or even a quick dry oil and 1 with BIN and sand them both out. Tell me it is not easier and quicker with the BIN. It is also very time efficient. I can prime, sand, and 2 coat trim by lunch time and have an excellent quality product. It's not for everybody and every situation, but it's a pretty much fool proof system for blocking any tannins and bleed through(if you believe that is a concern) and it has other attributes as well. It's not something I would recommend to a homeowner or an inexperienced painter, but it's a viable option for a pro.


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## RaleighPainter (Jun 13, 2011)

straight_lines said:


> Insulx and SW shellac are exactly the same price for me. Actually Insulx is cheaper and a better primer, the same price if I get SW shellac in fives.


Should have specified I was comparing SW shellac to BIN..


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

bikerboy said:


> .......


At least you have a sense of humor - even if it is 'potty' humor.


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## Ultimate (Mar 20, 2011)

Can only think of one time CS has failed me. Water damage, years of nicotine accumulation and whatever else there was. I was just following orders at the time and the man with the money said spray a coat on it. I suited up, sprayed it out then went to lunch sure it would be fixed. Nope. Suited up again, sprayed some more, following orders, backrolled and waited til the next day. Failed again. 

I like priming raw trim interior with it due to the sandability as well as some other factors. Have never used BIN. CS is my go to. I used to prime trim with lacquer just for the sanding benefit alone. Point is, to the OP that said sometimes the cs will fail on an occasional piece of crown or something, sometimes, for me, when priming a house, the first coat can have some light spots, so I will typically, on a job I want done right, prime two coats. I am just wondering is there a possibility that the cs was a little light on the places that had the bleed through? If I remember correctly, you said it is not a regular thing. 

I am curious because if Zinnser is changing the recipe without me knowing it I am curious to see it coming before it bites me in the arse. The price and dependability, sandability, grip, etc make it a go to for me. Especially in cases such as you are describing.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

FatherandSonPainting said:


> Can only think of one time CS has failed me. Water damage, years of nicotine accumulation and whatever else there was. I was just following orders at the time and the man with the money said spray a coat on it. I suited up, sprayed it out then went to lunch sure it would be fixed. Nope. Suited up again, sprayed some more, following orders, backrolled and waited til the next day. Failed again.
> 
> I like priming raw trim interior with it due to the sandability as well as some other factors. Have never used BIN. CS is my go to. I used to prime trim with lacquer just for the sanding benefit alone. Point is, to the OP that said sometimes the cs will fail on an occasional piece of crown or something, sometimes, for me, when priming a house, the first coat can have some light spots, so I will typically, on a job I want done right, prime two coats. I am just wondering is there a possibility that the cs was a little light on the places that had the bleed through? If I remember correctly, you said it is not a regular thing.
> 
> I am curious because if Zinnser is changing the recipe without me knowing it I am curious to see it coming before it bites me in the arse. The price and dependability, sandability, grip, etc make it a go to for me. Especially in cases such as you are describing.


The O/P is out of his mind - I've never seen tannin bleed through any oil primer on interior prime trim other than knots. The tannin bleeds I've seen that followed the grain patterns of the wood happened on baseboards that someone painted with semigloss latex paint with no primer. And even then they don't show up for a couple of years after the job is complete. This is an example of total overthinking it. Spruce by it's very light color is indicative of a low tannin wood. It's not considered to be a tannin bleeding prone wood such as red cedar or redwood. Spruce or pine is the easiest freaking wood to prime - I've primed the stuff routinely with latex primers and never had an issue.


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## ROOMINADAY (Mar 20, 2009)

I guess I never used coverstain on all my own pine jambs and sills and didn't just reprime. I also guess we don't have to reprime some pine facia on some custom book cases we did last winter for a client.

At the end of the day, this is will be a nice custom home for the only builder we will work for and I want this to be perfect. We don't do a ton of NC, especially with a raw trim package. We do however reprime a ton of pine left for us by the pool of hacks out there.


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

plainpainter said:


> The O/P is out of his mind - I've never seen tannin bleed through any oil primer on interior prime trim other than knots. The tannin bleeds I've seen that followed the grain patterns of the wood happened on baseboards that someone painted with semigloss latex paint with no primer. And even then they don't show up for a couple of years after the job is complete. This is an example of total overthinking it. Spruce by it's very light color is indicative of a low tannin wood. It's not considered to be a tannin bleeding prone wood such as red cedar or redwood. Spruce or pine is the easiest freaking wood to prime - I've primed the stuff routinely with latex primers and never had an issue.


 Dan, years ago the pine was much more old growth stuff, kiln dried and much more stable. These days it is a much younger product, many times "wetter" and much less stable. I've seen raw pine crown molding shrink so much after a season that you can almost slip your pinky finger between it and the ceiling. Point being, I *have* seen newer pine primed trim bleed. I have also "gotten away" with putting a coat of acrylic primer on and finishing with a waterborne product on top with no problem. Came out perfect. My point is that the alcohol base primer is the only thing I could recommend, these days, if you want it to be fool proof.

Just as a side note. Many of us "old timers" use/used to use clear shellac as a primer for raw wood , especially when it was to be painted a color. You can make a deep base color easily with clear shellac and some universal tint. The original deep base primer. If you have a 6 panel that needs to be red or kelly green, just tint up some shellac, have a cup of coffee, sand it out and coat with satin impervo. Looks like furniture.


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## painterman (Jun 2, 2007)

This has gotten way to complicated. just prime with Smart Prime, cover knots with exterior wood glue...tite bond works well ...top coat with what ever...no smell ...no bleed through


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## ROOMINADAY (Mar 20, 2009)

painterman said:


> This has gotten way to complicated. just prime with Smart Prime, cover knots with exterior wood glue...tite bond works well ...top coat with what ever...no smell ...no bleed through



They tell me I can't get Smart Prime here yet.


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## benthepainter (Jun 17, 2011)

CliffK said:


> Many times you can "get away" with almost anything like Plainpainter says. However, there are also many times, based on lots of different variables when you can not. If I am finishing with an oil-maybe satin impervo, I am not quite as concerned and might be tempted to use a waterborne primer depending on circumstances. When you are looking for the most fool proof system, especially if you will be finishing with a waterborne product then the Bin is my go to product. The other advantage of Bin is that it sands out very well and you can get a top quality finish with it if you use it properly. I know there are those who say it is too brittle and not flexible enough to use as an undercoater, but I have never had a problem of that sort. Many years ago I was reluctant to use it on any large scale because of the obvious issues that Dan points out, but once you stop fighting it and get it figured out, it really works well. I'm a big fan of the bug sh!t. Lots of fans to get some air movement and the fumes dissipate as soon as it is dry which as you know is pretty damn fast.
> 
> PS. be prepared-$45/gal the other day



G'day Cliff
$45 4L I had to get some yesterday same product
4L $95 paint is exspensive in Australia


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## painterman (Jun 2, 2007)

Smart prime in Canada has been re labled "ZERO" not exactly the same product but does seem to work the same. Martin was the original importer for Smart prime ,have your supplier try them they might have some of the original in stock.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I am really liking aqua lock plus. This stock was full of knots, and I haven't had any bleed through. This is just one coat. It sands really easy as well. 

https://picasaweb.google.com/johnsonhomeco/AquaLockWbPrimer?authuser=0&feat=directlink


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

CliffK said:


> Dan, years ago the pine was much more old growth stuff, kiln dried and much more stable. These days it is a much younger product, many times "wetter" and much less stable. I've seen raw pine crown molding shrink so much after a season that you can almost slip your pinky finger between it and the ceiling. Point being, I have seen newer pine primed trim bleed. I have also "gotten away" with putting a coat of acrylic primer on and finishing with a waterborne product on top with no problem. Came out perfect. My point is that the alcohol base primer is the only thing I could recommend, these days, if you want it to be fool proof.
> 
> Just as a side note. Many of us "old timers" use/used to use clear shellac as a primer for raw wood , especially when it was to be painted a color. You can make a deep base color easily with clear shellac and some universal tint. The original deep base primer. If you have a 6 panel that needs to be red or kelly green, just tint up some shellac, have a cup of coffee, sand it out and coat with satin impervo. Looks like furniture.


Actually you would want to use a dewaxed shellac if you were going to go the clear route. I wouldn't recommend it though. You can tint BIN with up to 2 ounces of colorant I believe. I concur that if you want a fool proof system that would be the way to go. It does spray beautifully and can make you look like an expert sprayer. Its a great product for repainting kitchen cabinets as well. 
Smart Prime is a WB product. Very good, but not going to have the same blocking properties over pine as shellac.


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

Damon T said:


> Actually you would want to use a dewaxed shellac if you were going to go the clear route.


 True Damon. The "Seal Coat" is the product of choice these days. I will say though, in over 35 years of using regular shellac("waxed") I have *never* had a problem result from the "wax"(maybe I'm just lucky). This is something my old man did long before I was even around. The seal coat type product(unwaxed shellac) has not been around and readily available for that long. I thought for quite a while that it was a war between the shellac makers and the urethane makers. There was a time the guys that made shellac didn't make urethanes and visa versa. Way back we used to mix up our own shellac from the flakes.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Hi Cliff
I think I made a mistake. I believe the de-waxed shellac is only important if you are putting polyurethane on top of it. Otherwise shellac does have excellent properties as a tie-coat, bridging two coatings that otherwise might be incompatible.as you attested to, it's been working for you for a long time! Shellac is a really cool product! It takes 1.5 million lac bugs to make a pound of shellac flake! That's crazy! 

Happy painting!


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

I always carried a spray can of shellac and hit all the knots with a couple shots of it before priming, sometimes went over it with a shot of coverstain from a spray can. Scuffed lightly and primed with either a Solvent or WB primer. Never a problem.


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## mastr (Apr 15, 2011)

plainpainter said:


> Biker - you are such a joke. First of all, no dropout here - *I graduated cum laude*, if you even know what that means. Secondly, I know all about linseed oil - do you grind your own pigments too? Linseed oil has properties important for an exterior oil primer - but has no use in an interior application. You still use turps? Maybe it's time you left the 70s. We have all sorts of nifty products now, like latex enamels, washable flat paints, and urethanized latex primers - low temp paint, heck most high end paints are even self priming!


Your excessive use of the hyphen and run-on sentences makes me not believe you. :thumbsup:


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## NACE (May 16, 2008)

I always thought that pine pitch was solvent soluable and alkyd based sealers would potentially react with and soften pine resin and draw out pitch. Water based sealers never had the blocking capabilities to withhold pitch bleed especially if the pitch hasn't been "set" by the kiln as most water based sealers have pin holes and pathways due to the curing nature of water based coatings. Newer fast growth pine is more prone to pitch bleed because of the larger grain orientation. Tannin is a water soluable extractive, like tea, that is essentially tree waste from the metabolic process of a tree, such as cedar or redwood. I always used 5-7 lb amber shellac as it was inert to solvent and water soluable extractives, and had better flexibility due to its higher solids content. Not sure if you can still get 7 lb amber shellac. I think the BIN Amber is 3-5 lb now. We used to buy shellac flakes and disolve in alcohol to make our own shellac. Just my 2 cents.


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## playedout6 (Apr 27, 2009)

ROOMINADAY said:


> PS. be prepared-$45/gal the other day



59.00 A Gallon Here - retail![/QUOTE]


Do they have any Kent or Home Hardware stores in your area ? Over here on PEI you can get it under 50 after your discount . A year ago it was around 35 a can ....quite a jump but well worth it when you need the stuff .

Opps...just read your next reply on the 59 buck can of BIN...man they have a good mark up on it at that store !!!


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## ROOMINADAY (Mar 20, 2009)

playedout6 said:


> 59.00 A Gallon Here - retail!


Do they have any Kent or Home Hardware stores in your area ? Over here on PEI you can get it under 50 after your discount . A year ago it was around 35 a can ....quite a jump but well worth it when you need the stuff .

Opps...just read your next reply on the 59 buck can of BIN...man they have a good mark up on it at that store !!![/QUOTE]

I pay under 50 with my discount. Kent is in Truro an hour away. I get from my BM dealer or Home Hardware. HD is in Halifax.


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## playedout6 (Apr 27, 2009)

NACE said:


> I always thought that pine pitch was solvent soluable and alkyd based sealers would potentially react with and soften pine resin and draw out pitch. Water based sealers never had the blocking capabilities to withhold pitch bleed especially if the pitch hasn't been "set" by the kiln as most water based sealers have pin holes and pathways due to the curing nature of water based coatings. Newer fast growth pine is more prone to pitch bleed because of the larger grain orientation. Tannin is a water soluable extractive, like tea, that is essentially tree waste from the metabolic process of a tree, such as cedar or redwood. I always used 5-7 lb amber shellac as it was inert to solvent and water soluable extractives, and had better flexibility due to its higher solids content. Not sure if you can still get 7 lb amber shellac. I think the BIN Amber is 3-5 lb now. We used to buy shellac flakes and disolve in alcohol to make our own shellac. Just my 2 cents.



That's very interesting info on the new fast grow Pine . Thanks !


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

straight_lines said:


> I am really liking aqua lock plus. This stock was full of knots, and I haven't had any bleed through. This is just one coat. It sands really easy as well.
> 
> https://picasaweb.google.com/johnsonhomeco/AquaLockWbPrimer?authuser=0&feat=directlink


Thanks for posting a review on BP Tommy!


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## ROOMINADAY (Mar 20, 2009)

RCP said:


> Thanks for posting a review on BP Tommy!



I ordered 4 gallons today for my trim based on Tommy. I will Bin the knots. The GC told me there are very few knots and they are all in the BB and they plan on cutting them out.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I have to say the job from where those pics were taken it impressed me with how well this 100% acrylic primer performs. Fast growth pine as well. Builder asked me today about bleed through on the knots. 

I told him if the areas with two topcoats of ben do show to let me know, but from my inspection it won't be an issue. This was some pretty bad stock to work with, but if there is any sap still in the knots I am sure it will come to the surface once the home is heated. We will see. 

I have seen pine do crazy things, and have had good looking finishes look bad years down the road with sap running. I don't think any primer would remedy that.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Oh and forgot to add, carpenters were installing some funky rubber flexible trim. First time I have seen it. Should be fun, and educating finishing it.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

straight_lines said:


> Oh and forgot to add, carpenters were installing some funky rubber flexible trim. First time I have seen it. Should be fun, and educating finishing it.


We had some of that on a recent home, was interesting to match on a stained Alder!


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## ROOMINADAY (Mar 20, 2009)

Whay was your application method?

Did you spray and/or roll and back brush?


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

All three Jeff.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

mastr said:


> Your excessive use of the hyphen and run-on sentences makes me not believe you. :thumbsup:


 I didn't major in English. And I don't feel compelled to follow all the grammatical rules online. Who didn't write reports and spend considerable time editing, correcting and re-editing what they wrote? All this verbiage online is just written off the cuff.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

Use a product like this, and it negates having these useless threads.

http://www.californiapaints.com/Pdf/Spec/InPri/L/20700%20PCLow%20Odor%20Primer%20Sealer%20Stain%20Killer.pdf


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

Man I love that California prime choice. The alkyd is great, I also love the acrylic version. Great primer.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

kdpaint said:


> Man I love that California prime choice. The alkyd is great, I also love the acrylic version. Great primer.


 I never specifically used this product, but I assume it's a relabel of the synthetic low odor 'wipe-out' I use to use. Pratt and lambert odorless stain killer is another fine product for these situations as well.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

straight_lines said:


> Oh and forgot to add, carpenters were installing some funky rubber flexible trim. First time I have seen it. Should be fun, and educating finishing it.


For radiused walls? I see that a lot for crown on radiused rooms.


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