# Take a look at these pics of patchwork - should I prime?



## 2002mrhill (Aug 17, 2015)

Hey all! I did a lot of patchwork on this home and have read war stories about trying to cover joint compound without seeing flashing. I will be using SW Promar 200 Flat (rolling 2 coats) in a medium dark brown. 

SW tells me not to prime which does not sound right. They said it will flash no matter what but to use the actual paint as a primer, then topcoat twice and it will be best. This doesn't sound right. I am thinking to using Zinsser 1-2-3 latex primer on the joint compound and sections of fresh drywall, then topcoating with 2 hits of Promar 200. 

What is your advice? Can I prevent flashing in this case and if so, what is my best method?:no:


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## Carl (Jun 18, 2011)

I agree with SW. Use the paint to prime. The problem with spot priming with an actual primer when you are using flat paint is that the spot primed areas are actually sealed while the rest of the wall may not be. So, the paint will not soak in where you did the spot priming, but it may soak in where you did not prime, so you will get a flash. If you are going to prime, you need to prime the whole wall, but if your paint is flat, priming is not necessary.


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## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

most likely they will send you to the diy site since this is for proffessionals but If you do not want flashing prime the entire wall and paint.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Welcome to Paint Talk!


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## 2002mrhill (Aug 17, 2015)

So far I have two choices then: 

1. spot prime with the actual paint, then topcoat

OR

2. prime all walls, then topcoat

Obviously option 1 is much quicker and cheaper. Are the results going to be the same as if I prime the whole wall? What is the SAFEST way to go?


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## radio11 (Aug 14, 2015)

Spot prime with the top coat (not a heavy coat) OR prime the entire wall with primer. Wait, did somebody already say that? I agree with the first intelligent poster. 


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

2002mrhill said:


> So far I have two choices then:
> 
> 1. spot prime with the actual paint, then topcoat
> 
> ...


Really?


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## Jazz_Painter (Feb 22, 2015)

Try spot priming an area if you have a small wall with some patches. I've got good results from spot priming with paint then top coat 2 coats. Sometime it takes another full coat of paint, depending on the product you have, what's under etc... Try a small wall where you can test and see for yourself which strategy is best. It's not like, unless you're using **** paint, you're gonna ruin it by not doing it properly, it might just require another coat of paint. Just don't use bad primer (aka SW PVA primer, for example).


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Jazz_Painter said:


> Try spot priming an area if you have a small wall with some patches. I've got good results from spot priming with paint then top coat 2 coats. Sometime it takes another full coat of paint, depending on the product you have, what's under etc... Try a small wall where you can test and see for yourself which strategy is best. It's not like, unless you're using **** paint, you're gonna ruin it by not doing it properly, it might just require another coat of paint. Just don't use bad primer (aka SW PVA primer, for example).


like pro mar 200?


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## Seth The Painter (Jun 24, 2015)

Really?? Listen man always always always prime. Anyone telling you otherwise is a fool in my opinion. Especially because your using promar as finish. Professional painters always keep primer stocked. I use aqualock. Welcome.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

I actually like to use a cheap pva primer for spot priming. It's just good enough to prevent flashing yet crappy enough to not completely seal the surface so it will all dry evenly. :yes:

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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

That kind of flashing is often as much about texture as it is sheen hold out. If the smooth patch is surrounded by a rough, nappy wall then it will show some variation even if you do everything "right" in terms of coating. I like to sand the entire wall before patching in these situations to reduce textural differences before they happen. 

With many of today's high hiding top coats like Emerald, Aura or Regal, spot priming with a separate product in these situations has become superfluous. Idk for sure about the pro mar. Normally I recommend that people listen to the manufacturers/reps in these situations. Then again we are talking about a Sherwin clerk. 

Maybe check the Promar specs for a clue. I don't think it's self priming on drywall, so there's one clue.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

I've found that with most flats your just fine without spot priming, Superpaint flat, promar 200, ect. Not the case with Cashmere flat enamel tho, that you have to spot prime. In this particular case I'd spot prime because the color is going to be a "medium dark brown" as we know the more tint usually the more shine and shine is your enemy with flat when not spot priming.


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## Carl (Jun 18, 2011)

If you really get the primer out to spot prime when the finish is dead flat, then you don't know what primer is for.


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## goga (Aug 6, 2015)

Jmayspaint said:


> That kind of flashing is often as much about texture as it is sheen hold out. If the smooth patch is surrounded by a rough, nappy wall then it will show some variation even if you do everything "right" in terms of coating. I like to sand the entire wall before patching in these situations to reduce textural differences before they happen.


I'd double that, yet instead of sanding, have no idea why would anyone sand so much, try to match the pattern of the previous texture surrounding the patches. Prime has to go before the texture though, as the book says and in case of a screw-up with texture application it can be wiped and redone. 

After "new texture" is applied, couple of thicker coats of paint has to be applied to the patched area to make a "build up" in order to make it look like the old painted surrounding wall, which already has few coats and texture is not as pronounced as on the patched area. That will eliminate "flashing" AMAP.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Rbriggs82 said:


> I actually like to use a cheap pva primer for spot priming. It's just good enough to prevent flashing yet crappy enough to not completely seal the surface so it will all dry evenly. :yes:
> 
> Sent from my LG-H810 using Tapatalk


That actually makes sense! I never thought of that.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

One coat of Emerald Semigloss and you are good to go! The darker the color the better! Use a 3/16 nap roller so it goes on extra smooth!


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

PACman said:


> That actually makes sense! I never thought of that.


Yup, it's one of those things I wish I'd learned a lot sooner. Saves a lot of headaches with flashing problems. :yes:

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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Yup, it's one of those things I wish I'd learned a lot sooner. Saves a lot of headaches with flashing problems. :yes:
> 
> Sent from my LG-H810 using Tapatalk


Once again I learned something and I didn't use algebra to do it.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

When painters come up with their preferred systems for new drywall, do they ever take into account what the actual drywall, tape, and mud manufacturers recommend for a painting spec? For Level 3 and above they generally say to prime everything. Just curious, as most of the NC home painters and GC's I have supplied in the past just did two coats of flat. Then the homeowner is left to deal with or live with any future flashing issues. Just curious what you guys would do on your own houses if cost was no object.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

goga said:


> I'd double that, yet instead of sanding, have no idea why would anyone sand so much, try to match the pattern of the previous texture surrounding the patches. Prime has to go before the texture though, as the book says and in case of a screw-up with texture application it can be wiped and redone.
> 
> After "new texture" is applied, couple of thicker coats of paint has to be applied to the patched area to make a "build up" in order to make it look like the old painted surrounding wall, which already has few coats and texture is not as pronounced as on the patched area. That will eliminate "flashing" AMAP.



It's just a matter of approach. I've done it the way you describe with good success as well. 

These days the first thing I like to do on a repaint after removing all the picture hangers, nails, etc., is give all the walls a thorough sanding with the big Porter Cable. Smaller areas like bathrooms get hit with an orbital. It really doesn't take that long if you have the right tools and has a number of benefits. 

For one thing, you can remove any runs or buggers from the last paint job. Also, sanding will reveal popped nails and other imperfections needing attention. A random popped nail that may only be visible from a certain angle otherwise, becomes readily apparent after sanding. An of course you can knock down the nap of the previous job to better match your patches like we're talking about here. 

If I was only going to pole sand or hand sand the walls for some reason, I would more inclined to use the other approach.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

If cost was no object I'd have that bare drywall sprayed with gardz prior to painting. :yes:

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## Carl (Jun 18, 2011)

Most painters don't bother to educate themselves about the proper coatings to use when and where. Combine this with the fact that most builders (who are also not educated) are looking for two things...cheap and something that will hide all the bad drywall. Two coats of flat works perfect for that. I have painted many houses with the two coats of flat system and then gone back years later to repaint and it really wasn't that much of an issue. The only guilt I have with using that system is that I know the adhesion isn't the best. If a homeowner decides to tape off the ceiling or do some striping, I know that some paint may be coming off here and there when they pull that tape because crappy flat was used as the prime. If it was my own house, I would do 123 as the primer and Cashmere as the topcoat. I still get too many lap lines with BM and I couldn't handle looking at those every day in my own home.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

2002mrhill said:


> Hey all! I did a lot of patchwork on this home and have read war stories about trying to cover joint compound without seeing flashing. I will be using SW Promar 200 Flat (rolling 2 coats) in a medium dark brown. SW tells me not to prime which does not sound right. They said it will flash no matter what but to use the actual paint as a primer, then topcoat twice and it will be best. This doesn't sound right. I am thinking to using Zinsser 1-2-3 latex primer on the joint compound and sections of fresh drywall, then topcoating with 2 hits of Promar 200. What is your advice? Can I prevent flashing in this case and if so, what is my best method?:no:


It's pretty typical of what I will run into all of the time. Promar 200 flat, that's what we use. There is gonna be no conversation, no thought no nothing, spot it with the finish.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

If you want a "safe" option or care about the long term durability of your coating, I'd prime it. It gives better adhesion and typically (if you use a decent primer) gives you a more consistent finish in the end. But if you do what you're doing with the paint itself- getting one of the lowest quality coatings available- and you end up with a PVA primer or something equally terrible, you're not going to make it any better. And honestly, you'd probably be much better off using a better quality product than ProMar 200 than you would spending money on a primer. Just my 2c.


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## goga (Aug 6, 2015)

Jmayspaint said:


> It's just a matter of approach. I've done it the way you describe with good success as well.
> 
> These days the first thing I like to do on a repaint after removing all the picture hangers, nails, etc., is give all the walls a thorough sanding with the big Porter Cable. Smaller areas like bathrooms get hit with an orbital. It really doesn't take that long if you have the right tools and has a number of benefits.
> 
> ...


Many thanks for the info, never have done such a labor intense task with walls, just completely redone doors a few times. I look at it this way, if people were ok living with runs and buggers on the walls to begin with, they have no clue what is a good looking paint job is and more to this, have no money to pay for it. Why would someone bother making a palace out of a barn (just to compare)? I just can't imagine the amount of work involved into sanding the texture down to the paper, prime, retexture, paint to the sparkles over the paint..? That would cost a quite a bit from what I understand. But if I'm asked and paid, I'd do it just to see how good I am))


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## Mike2coat (Nov 12, 2013)

If it s a rental do what Sherwin Williams said. If it's a homeowners home make sure the texture matches the wall prime and paint it.


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## Seth The Painter (Jun 24, 2015)

DrakeB said:


> If you want a "safe" option or care about the long term durability of your coating, I'd prime it. It gives better adhesion and typically (if you use a decent primer) gives you a more consistent finish in the end. But if you do what you're doing with the paint itself- getting one of the lowest quality coatings available- and you end up with a PVA primer or something equally terrible, you're not going to make it any better. And honestly, you'd probably be much better off using a better quality product than ProMar 200 than you would spending money on a primer. Just my 2c.


Yes drake! Tell em again they didn't hear you!


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