# Outdoor Kitchen and Living Area, decked out in stone



## AlexWhite532 (Sep 23, 2021)

So, I've been invited to estimate this house, but I want to make sure I have the grasp that I think I have on the process for painting this stone. My first thought was "Paint will stick to anything with the right primer," but I started to think more about it because the homeowner said that some of the stone is real and some of it is fake. Now, I'm second-guessing myself, and I don't know why. So, the method that I know is this:
1. Pressure wash
2. Bonding primer (one coat)
3. Masonry & Stucco paint (maybe 3 coats)

Is there another method that I'm not thinking about...?


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

I'd be more inclined to use a masonry conditioner first. Unless your clients are wanting that stone black or a very dark color, you might want to caution them that painting it will reveal and accentuate every crack in the joints, all the pinholes from the porousness of the stone, etc.


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## AlexWhite532 (Sep 23, 2021)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> I'd be more inclined to use a masonry conditioner first. Unless your clients are wanting that stone black or a very dark color, you might want to caution them that painting it will reveal and accentuate every crack in the joints, all the pinholes from the porousness of the stone, etc.


So, use the conditioner instead of the bonding primer...?


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

Mineral masonry paint


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## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

As far as what to use I can't help, so apologies if I'm just adding a superfluous comment.

But all I can think to say is to do everything that you can to talk them out of it. I don't care what you use or do to it, it's not likely to look good - although it does right now! And they're asking you to turn a virtually maintenance free (and complicated) bunch of stuff into an ongoing maintenance problem. So they're asking you to take a bunch of great looking, low maintenance stuff and turn it into an ugly maintenance nightmare.

Just my gut $.02


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## AlexWhite532 (Sep 23, 2021)

Joe67 said:


> As far as what to use I can't help, so apologies if I'm just adding a superfluous comment.
> 
> But all I can think to say is to do everything that you can to talk them out of it. I don't care what you use or do to it, it's not likely to look good - although it does right now! And they're asking you to turn a virtually maintenance free (and complicated) bunch of stuff into an ongoing maintenance problem. So they're asking you to take a bunch of great looking, low maintenance stuff and turn it into an ugly maintenance nightmare.
> 
> Just my gut $.02


She said she's tired of the brown look, and she wants a completely different feeling. "Coastal" is the word she used. This stone is not just here. She also has an outdoor fireplace that's stone, and her pool is lined with it, as well as the outer wall of the entire area - same stone.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

What colour is she thinking? 1 good coat of masonry primer and a couple coats of exterior latex is going to be fine on that imo. It doesn't have to be a "bonding primer" as masonry is very porous. It would however all have to be sprayed.


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## jennifertemple (Oct 30, 2011)

Dang!! I am, absolutely, sure she is going to regret painting that stone, sooner rather than later.


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## monarchski (Jun 21, 2019)

AlexWhite532 said:


> So, I've been invited to estimate this house, but I want to make sure I have the grasp that I think I have on the process for painting this stone. My first thought was "Paint will stick to anything with the right primer," but I started to think more about it because the homeowner said that some of the stone is real and some of it is fake. Now, I'm second-guessing myself, and I don't know why. So, the method that I know is this:
> 1. Pressure wash
> 2. Bonding primer (one coat)
> 3. Masonry & Stucco paint (maybe 3 coats)
> ...


Take a look at Romabio products especially their BioGrip primer. That stuff is NOT coming off.


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

Potassium silicate mineral coatings work well with stone, masonry, and renders due to chemically fusing with minerals in the substrate and become an integral part of the substrate. They have a high perm ratings (~85) and allow the substrate to breathe and won’t peel, blister, or pop off like acrylic resin coatings do. They also are less prone to mildew and don’t UV degrade. I’m going to be using potassium silicate coatings on a dry laid stone foundation which I recently repointed in the upcoming weeks in lieu of parging. The mineral paint was recommended by a limeworks facility which specializes in masonry historic preservation. 

Residential - KEIM Residential Mineral Paints


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## AlexWhite532 (Sep 23, 2021)

jennifertemple said:


> Dang!! I am, absolutely, sure she is going to regret painting that stone, sooner rather than later.


She's getting a designer to help her make decisions. Personally, I don't like to impose my personal thoughts on customers. Unless they ask for my opinion, I just give them what they want at the highest quality possible - within reason, of course.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Redux said:


> Potassium silicate mineral coatings work well with stone, masonry, and renders due to chemically fusing with minerals in the substrate and become an integral part of the substrate. They have a high perm ratings (~85) and allow the substrate to breathe and won’t peel, blister, or pop off like acrylic resin coatings do. They also are less prone to mildew and don’t UV degrade. I’m going to be using potassium silicate coatings on a dry laid stone foundation which I recently repointed in the upcoming weeks in lieu of parging. The mineral paint was recommended by a limeworks facility which specializes in masonry historic preservation.
> 
> Residential - KEIM Residential Mineral Paints


In what ways do these differ from lime based coatings?


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> In what ways do these differ from lime based coatings?


Although above my pay grade, just my hypothesis and not certain if it’s correct…my understanding is that potassium silicate forms silica bonds between the silica in the substrate and the silica in the finish vs lime wash which bonds to calcium. For example, igneous stone doesn’t contain calcium for the lime to form chemical bonds with but contains silica which makes potassium silicate a better choice. Lime wash works well with sedimentary stones being they are calcium rich, but so does potassium silicate being sedimentary stones contain silica. Potassium silicate coatings have a broader use being that most renders, mortars, and stones contain silica, but don’t necessarily contain calcium, at least all stones don’t, but renders and mortars do..


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Redux said:


> Although above my pay grade, just my hypothesis and not certain if it’s correct…my understanding is that potassium silicate forms silica bonds between the silica in the substrate and the silica in the finish vs lime wash which bonds to calcium. For example, igneous stone doesn’t contain calcium for the lime to form chemical bonds with but contains silica which makes potassium silicate a better choice. Lime wash works well with sedimentary stones being they are calcium rich, but so does potassium silicate being sedimentary stones contain silica. Potassium silicate coatings have a broader use being that most renders, mortars, and stones contain silica, but don’t necessarily contain calcium, at least all stones don’t, but renders and mortars do..











Waterborne Silicate Coatings: The Ultimate Eco-friendly Coating


Silicate coatings are alkali metal silicates that are made from naturally occurring materials such as sand and alkali. Alkali metal silicates are derived from a



knowledge.ulprospector.com


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## jennifertemple (Oct 30, 2011)

AlexWhite532 said:


> She's getting a designer to help her make decisions. Personally, I don't like to impose my personal thoughts on customers. Unless they ask for my opinion, I just give them what they want at the highest quality possible - within reason, of course.


And you are quite right to do so! (Did I mention I loath "designers"  I've had more than a few issues with them over the years) Strictly speaking, we are all, basically applicators! If one acts as a faux designer, then one is libel for the HOs displeasure when it does not work out as they anticipated!


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## AlexWhite532 (Sep 23, 2021)

jennifertemple said:


> And you are quite right to do so! (Did i mention I loath "designers"  I've had more than a few issues with them over the years) Strictly speaking, we are all, basically applicators! If one acts as a faux designer, then one is libel for the HOs displeasure when it does not work out as they anticipated!


I've dealt with one interior designer that had a long relationship with Sherwin-Williams. Her discount was better than ours! She asked me how much was the cost of paint (ProMar 200) for the project she wanted me to estimate. When I told her the shelf price (about $95 at the time), she disputed me...called her rep at Sherwin-Williams, and put him on speaker phone. He told her the price was like $40-50... But here's the kicker, she asked him if that was the price for anybody, and not just someone with an account, the rep said, "Yes. That's the price any Joe Blow coming of the street would get." Naturally, I'm sitting there dumbfounded because I know what I know, but yet these two seemed to have conspired against me.


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## jennifertemple (Oct 30, 2011)

@AlexWhite532 I have not run into a lowlife like that! I would have spoken up, on that speaker phone, on the spot! I'd have insisted that the rep sell to me at the same price and record it on my phone. What A**H***S! No, my issue, with some, was leaving instructions to do something that was impossible and when you ask the HO for contact info, the designer is conveniently out of town until the job is done, leaving you to figure out how to make the impossible, possible. I had to do a huge Faux finish job from start to finish twice because the designers recommendations DID NOT WORK. I ended up finishing the job with water color artist's varnish at $200/gal over 25 years ago. I had to come up with that resolution on my own because the designer didn't have a clue about materials. I spent 16 hours with another designer as she fussed over, just, exactly, the right shade and tone for a DISTRESSED look fireplace surround and mantle! In the end it was all done in accordance with sample # 1!
Egad, anyone can fancy themselves a designer, hang out their shingle and leave the trades to do, what, really, is their job.


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