# F&B Fail



## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

I am going to be doing a floor soon using Farrow and Ball floor paint.

My concern is that the Designer recently had a problem with this product in her _own_ home applied by a painter she has used for years. They haven't figured out what happened. He used the F&B primer as recommended and then the paint. It peeled off in sheets.

Have any of you had any issues with this product of late? 


The project I am committed to do is for her client, I don't want to screw it up. I've never used their floor paints or primer.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

I had no idea they even made floor paint. Thankfully they don't have one of their boutiques anywhere near this area and almost nobody has ever heard the name Farrow & Ball.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Never even heard of Farrow & Ball til I joined PT. Usually when paint is peeling in sheets as you described it's an indication of improper prep or primer.

Doesn't matter the brand so much, it's usually "operator error".


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

slinger58 said:


> Never even heard of Farrow & Ball til I joined PT.


If you ever see one of their paint stores, you should put on your worst painting whites and wander in. You will never feel more out of place as a painter in a paint store.

Never again.


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

slinger58 said:


> Never even heard of Farrow & Ball til I joined PT. Usually when paint is peeling in sheets as you described it's an indication of improper prep or primer.
> 
> Doesn't matter the brand so much, it's usually "operator error".


That's what I thought, operator error. But I know this dude, he's a good painter. I guess I'll just follow the instructions to the letter.



Wildbill7145 said:


> If you ever see one of their paint stores, you should put on your worst painting whites and wander in. You will never feel more out of place as a painter in a paint store.
> 
> Never again.


Oh Wildbill, I wouldn't be phased a bit. Maybe it's because I'm a woman, but, my paint clothes are the source of many random interactions with all walks of people. They generally are very impressed, and for the record, I don't wear whites.There is a F&B store on Connecticut Ave. in DC that I will be stopping in this week,I'll let you know how it goes.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

fauxlynn said:


> my paint clothes are the source of many random interactions with all walks of people.


I swear sometimes I autohate random people who think they're being funny when they say to me "did you get any on the wall" when they see my whites.

'No, that's only the 433834589 time I've heard that one'.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

What kind of floor?


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

Wildbill7145 said:


> I swear sometimes I autohate random people who think they're being funny when they say to me "did you get any on the wall" when they see my whites.
> 
> 'No, that's only the 433834589 time I've heard that one'.


Right up there with, "You missed a spot!".


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

TJ Paint said:


> What kind of floor?


The floor that had the failure is a 80 year old tongue and groove solid wood,not sure what type.

The floor I am going to be doing is one of those engineered floors with a sort of thin laminate.I really don't know how thin that layer is. I'm not prepping the floor,as in sanding. The designer is bringing in a floor guy to sand it and get it ready for me. I questioned her on that,my understanding is that is a no no,but her floor guy says he knows what he's doing.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

I'm thinking having a floor guy doing the prep is probably a good idea.
Some of those laminates can't be sanded, but they can be "screened". 

In any event, it takes some of the responsibility off you.


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

Well,you know me, the less responsibility I'm responsible for,the better I am,responsibility-wise,that is.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Lol. I'm with ya there. :yes:


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## Danahy (Dec 11, 2008)

I'd be tempted to swap out their primer for something like Stix. I've used F&B's clay based a few times over the years, but never knew they had a primer.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Get a fb rep to spec products, prep, and acceptible application procedure. Have the rep write it up and sign. 

Then, between the rep and floor guy, you are pretty much untouchable if failure occurs. Although this doesn't mean it will be headache free.


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## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

Laminate floors expand quite a bit. I would be concerned about the floor expanding in the summer months. I would be hesitant to warranty a coating on laminate because of the expansion. What type of design are you painting.


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

Danahy said:


> I'd be tempted to swap out their primer for something like Stix. I've used F&B's clay based a few times over the years, but never knew they had a primer.


Yeah,that option is in the back of my head. I trust Stix.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Lambrecht said:


> Laminate floors expand quite a bit. I would be concerned about the floor expanding in the summer months. I would be hesitant to warranty a coating on laminate because of the expansion. What type of design are you painting.


I don't think it's laminate though. Fauxlynn mentioned it's an engineered floor with some type of laminate on top which makes me think it's an engineered hardwood with some form of protective coating on top. I know some have some form of ceramic coating or something on top for protection.

A guy I know had this installed in his house. He took a piece of scrap and went at the surface pretty aggressively with his house key. Didn't even leave a hint of a mark on it.

Not a chance would I be going anywhere near putting any coating on top of regular laminate.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

I would be very concerned with painting over the engineered hardwood floors, for the same reasons mentioned like expansion and contraction, plus they usually are put down on that thin foam padding.

They have a lot of movement.


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

TJ Paint said:


> Get a fb rep to spec products, prep, and acceptible application procedure. Have the rep write it up and sign.
> 
> Then, between the rep and floor guy, you are pretty much untouchable if failure occurs. Although this doesn't mean it will be headache free.


You the man! Yes. See why I can't quit you guys? (Completely)



Lambrecht said:


> What type of design are you painting.


Solid base coat with a diamond grid translucent stripe.


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

Hey if the floor guy can do his thing,it's a go for me.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

:thumbup: Do a scratch test or tape test after primer is dry, then carry on.


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

slinger58 said:


> :thumbup: Do a scratch test or tape test after primer is dry, then carry on.


Okay.Is that sorta like a scratch and sniff test?


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

TJ Paint said:


> Get a fb rep to spec products, prep, and acceptible application procedure. Have the rep write it up and sign.
> 
> Then, between the rep and floor guy, you are pretty much untouchable if failure occurs. Although this doesn't mean it will be headache free.


especially for a floor


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

chrisn said:


> especially for a floor


I'm scared for the project and I'm not even in the same time zone!


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

chrisn said:


> especially for a floor





TJ Paint said:


> I'm scared for the project and I'm not even in the same time zone!


I'm not scared, I've done dozens of painted floors,just never with Farrow and Ball. I think your advice makes the most sense. Thanks,TJ. Sincerely.

And.....in keeping with the testiness in the atmosphere around here today....Hey, chrisn,why don't you take your own advice and stay away from the faux,a*hole? :thumbsup: You can keep your inane comments to yourself, mkay?Of course I mean that in the nicest way possible.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

fauxlynn said:


> Okay.Is that sorta like a scratch and sniff test?


If that's the way you wanna do it. :jester:


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

slinger58 said:


> If that's the way you wanna do it. :jester:


See, I'm not hard to get along with, unless of course, you piss me off.:jester:


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

fauxlynn said:


> See, I'm not hard to get along with, unless of course, you piss me off.:jester:


And you know I would _never_ do that. Again. :thumbsup:


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

slinger58 said:


> And you know I would _never_ do that. Again. :thumbsup:


Somehow,D, I think you're not really as nice as you portray yourself on here.:jester: and that's okay with me, no judgement here.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

fauxlynn said:


> Somehow,D, I think you're not really as nice as you portray yourself on here.:jester: and that's okay with me, no judgement here.


Now that's just downright hurtful.


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

slinger58 said:


> Now that's just downright hurtful.


I'm sorry, you can hurt me back if you want.:jester:


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

fauxlynn said:


> I think your advice makes the most sense. Thanks,TJ. Sincerely.


Cool! My goal is to have one semi-useful post per year. You helped me get there, so, thank you!


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

TJ Paint said:


> Cool! My goal is to have one semi-useful post per year. You helped me get there, so, thank you!


Like,OMG! Maybe,just maybe you'll get nominated for pro of the month or whatever the **** it is. Yay!


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

fauxlynn said:


> Like,OMG! Maybe,just maybe you'll get nominated for pro of the month or whatever the **** it is. Yay!


Hey if I do I'll split the gift card with ya, since you made it possible!


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

Very generous sir, indeed.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

fauxlynn said:


> I'm not scared, I've done dozens of painted floors,just never with Farrow and Ball. I think your advice makes the most sense. Thanks,TJ. Sincerely.
> 
> And.....in keeping with the testiness in the atmosphere around here today....Hey, chrisn,why don't you take your own advice and stay away from the faux,a*hole? :thumbsup: You can keep your inane comments to yourself, mkay?Of course I mean that in the nicest way possible.


 
and when did I ever say that?

really? I thought it was helpful, so, just to please you, you will hear no more


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## Roamer (Jul 5, 2010)

Fauxlyn, I didn't know you were in the DC area. Every thought about joining the DC Metro PDCA chapter?

Btw, there is another FB store in McLean called the Color Wheel. They were the sole distributor in the area for years before the DC store opened.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

TJ Paint said:


> Cool! My goal is to have one semi-useful post per year. You helped me get there, so, thank you!


And it's only mid-November. Hardly even close.


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

Roamer said:


> Fauxlyn, I didn't know you were in the DC area. Every thought about joining the DC Metro PDCA chapter?
> 
> Btw, there is another FB store in McLean called the Color Wheel. They were the sole distributor in the area for years before the DC store opened.


I am very familiar with Color Wheel. I could drive to McLean with my eyes closed, and probably have a few times.

Not sure I'd be much of an asset to any painting organization since I'm not really a painter. I'll think about it.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

One of our best most helpful and most fun members in the Seattle area is a decorative painter. You would be welcome!


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

fauxlynn said:


> I am very familiar with Color Wheel. I could drive to McLean with my eyes closed, and probably have a few times.
> 
> Not sure I'd be much of an asset to any painting organization since I'm not really a painter. I'll think about it.


What makes you say your not a painter? Your specialty is faux finishing right? That is part of the painting trade, and In my opinion one of the hardest parts too


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

journeymanPainter said:


> What makes you say your not a painter? Your specialty is faux finishing right? That is part of the painting trade, and In my opinion one of the hardest parts too


I'd have to agree with JP. Unless you didn't want to be associated with us poor slobs who roll out or spray walls all day long I'd say you're still a painter. Just one with a specific area of specialization.

A pilot who flies a Cessna instead of a fighter jet or a 747 is still a pilot.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Fauxlynn,

I think this diamond pattern is an interesting project. 

Would it be possible to get a similar sample of the existing product to do a test on? I know there are two different references to laminate floors.

1. A real wood finish veneer (up to an 1/8" usually impregnated. Whatever that is) over a ply or particle board base. Usually set in place with an adhesive.

2. A photographed thin plastic laminate with a protective film over it, that is supported by some sort of manufactured particle board. Like the "floating floor system" Pergo.

I'd be more inclined to at least use a two component waterborne system like PPG Aqua Pon, rather then a single component. Especially over the non porous and very hard Pergo type of laminate.


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## Toolnut (Nov 23, 2012)

About the movement in engineered flooring I thought it was made like plywood with different plys going different directions and this was to do away with almost all movement. Is this not correct ?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Toolnut said:


> About the movement in engineered flooring I thought it was made like plywood with different plys going different directions and this was to do away with almost all movement. Is this not correct ?


Pergo laminate flooring (for example) has a dense particle board type base. I've installed quite a bit of this stuff, and they all require ample space next to the perimeter walls.


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

Damon T said:


> One of our best most helpful and most fun members in the Seattle area is a decorative painter. You would be welcome!


Well, I am fun....



journeymanPainter said:


> What makes you say your not a painter? ......


Sort of a joke, get it, faux painter, fake painter? My kids tell me I'm not funny.




Wildbill7145 said:


> ?.....Unless *you didn't want to be associated with **those who roll out or spray walls* all day long I'd say you're still a painter.....


Yes, that must be it.:jester: 

Seriously, 99.9% of what is on this site doesn't pertain to me. I am just an art student with architectural and preservation leanings turned homeowner that just happens to know something about straight painting. That may sound snobby, not meant to. All the painters I know bust their humps to make stuff look good, and have knowledge of stuff that most take for granted. If you look at what I really contribute, it's not much.
Plus there's just somethin' about those whites that turn a girl on....




CApainter said:


> Fauxlynn,
> 
> .....
> 
> ...


Yes, PP, I think it is this. I am meeting the floor guy next week to check it out. I hope to get a piece of some boards since he has to replace a few. Hope he's cute.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

fauxlynn said:


> ..Yes, PP, I think it is this. I am meeting the floor guy next week to check it out. I hope to get a piece of some boards since he has to replace a few. Hope he's cute.


Good Lord, you're such a COBRA...or PUMA...or what ever the hell they call you flirtatious women. :jester: (I had to put the emoji dufuss with the hat to show I was just "jestering"). Cheers!


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

CApainter said:


> Good Lord, you're such a COBRA...or PUMA...or what ever the hell they call you flirtatious women. :jester: (I had to put the emoji dufuss with the hat to show I was just "jestering"). Cheers!


Meow


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

I don't know how the guy did it,but he got that clear coat off without damaging the floor.









I could see a tiny bit of shinyness where the boards beveled slightly where they met,did a scratch test after one coat. It was fine.


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

I put two coats of primer.I know that's overkill but it's okay.This paint is da' bomb. Like butter. I followed with two coats of floor paint. Coverage was fabulous,480' per gallon.


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

Now to figure out these diamonds......


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

CApainter said:


> Good Lord, you're such a COBRA...or PUMA...or what ever the hell they call you flirtatious women. :jester: (I had to put the emoji dufuss with the hat to show I was just "jestering"). Cheers!



I believe the word you're looking for is Cougar. Cobra, that's a new one. I think I'd steer clear of them!


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

After much struggle with my math and countless rolls of purple tape,it's done. I don't think there will be any issues with failing paint.

I'm not really a cougar, I'm an equal opportunity prowler.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

fauxlynn said:


> After much struggle with my math and countless rolls of purple tape,it's done. I don't think there will be any issues with failing paint.
> 
> I'm not really a cougar, I'm an equal opportunity prowler.
> 
> ...


Nicely done


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

A real work of art!


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## PremierPaintingMa (Nov 30, 2014)

Nice Work!


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

CApainter said:


> A real work of art!


OK, frankly, why would anyone in their right mind cover that beautiful hardwood floor in a table cloth pattern?... Hum?


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

CApainter said:


> OK, frankly, why would anyone in their right mind cover that beautiful hardwood floor in a table cloth pattern?... Hum?


Ha ha, it does remind me of the curtains my mom had in our kitchen back in the seventies.

It will all make sense when the wallpaper goes up and the mural on the ceiling gets done. 

Troublemaker.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Nice work. Reminds me of a floor I did about 20 years ago.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

F&B is expensive. Only 1 place close to us sells it and only by the quarts.


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

slinger58 said:


> Nice work. Reminds me of a floor I did about 20 years ago.


I knew you had some artist in you! Looks great,D.



cdpainting said:


> F&B is expensive. Only 1 place close to us sells it and only by the quarts.


Wow, just quarts. That is weird. I paid $126/gallon. But, I got two gallons and a quart. It only took 1 gallon and part of a qt. to do two coats. They told me they would take it back as long as the can was in 'pristine' condition. It all comes in pre- mixed, and the receipt says it has to be within 28 days. 
They took it back, no questions asked.

The only thing that went wrong is I hard a reaction to the paint. Maybe because I was so close to the floor, on my hands and knees for five hours. I drank five bottles of water in that time and my eyes were burning. My face was blood red and itchy,itchy. My skin peeled like a sunburn three days later.

My girls made me take a Benadryl. 

Maybe I didn't react to the base coat that way because I rolled it on with a pole?, IDK?


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

fauxlynn said:


> .....It will all make sense when the wallpaper goes up and the mural on the ceiling gets done. ...................


I sort of forgot about posting the final pics from the ceiling mural. We replicated the wallpaper pattern on the ceiling to give an illusion of a somewhat vaulted ceiling opening to a sky. I wanted to graduate the sky from a dark to light blue, but the designer nixed that.


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

close up of the leaves


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