# Spraying Siding w/o backbrush/backrolling



## JakeTheAnchor (Feb 23, 2016)

Hey guys. I hate spraying siding due to fears of causing flashing. My crew leader had me spray siding with a 410..i asked to used something bigger...only other tip we had was a 517 so he said to just stay back and basically fog it. Sometime next week, after the rain has passed, i gotta see if it ended up flashing at all or looking funny. My last company never backbrushed siding unless it actually needed it. We typically used 413s on everything. This company is mor 410 or 517. 

For the future though..any advice?


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## PremierPaintingMa (Nov 30, 2014)

I normally use 413 or 415 and back brush then I mist spray after with no flashing.
Now some paint my flash if it has a sheen like BM Arborcoat not the flat one or if you working in the direct sun. If the siding is shingle you will have no problem with flashing. 
517 should be ok, 410 may be to small of an fan for exterior paint.
good luck Dan.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

We always back brush after spraying.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I rarely back roll when spraying. Especially when spraying exterior siding. I would probably use the 415 also. I recently did a job spraying metal siding and found that a FF 410 tip applied the PPG Pitt Tech at 5 mils WFT with excellent control.

Rough Stucco is a different story. If you want a solid look, a larger tip and back rolling is essential. But if a more porous look is accetible, I usually just spray.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

backrolling/brushing is what is recommended by most reputable paint manufacturers for their warranties. Even if you get the correct mil thickness with just spraying, they still want it to be back rolled to make sure any voids are filled. Probably the only exceptions would be if you were painting vinyl or aluminum siding that was fairly smooth with no surface defects. Even then if there is a warranty claim they would probably like to see it backrolled.

But then again, if you believe every paint warranty, I have some land to sell you at the head of the Black Fork creek.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> backrolling/brushing is what is recommended by most reputable paint manufacturers for their warranties. Even if you get the correct mil thickness with just spraying, they still want it to be back rolled to make sure any voids are filled. Probably the only exceptions would be if you were painting vinyl or aluminum siding that was fairly smooth with no surface defects. Even then if there is a warranty claim they would probably like to see it backrolled.
> 
> But then again, if you believe every paint warranty, I have some land to sell you at the head of the Black Fork creek.


I doubt many paint manufacturers recommend back rolling after spraying in most situations. There is no way you can build a decent film with a roller in comparison with a spray gun.


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## goga (Aug 6, 2015)

CApainter said:


> I doubt many paint manufacturers recommend back rolling after spraying in most situations. There is no way you can build a decent film with a roller in comparison with a spray gun.


Doubling that. "Filling" the voids has to be done before any final paint goes onto the surface.


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## Crackshot (Dec 29, 2015)

yep 414 , just dont fog /mist it. it will fail so quick... just get it on there.. =D I dont backroll anymore.. even when they say to.


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## DynaPLLC (Oct 25, 2013)

i never back roll metal, vinyl or anything smooth but cedar shingles is a different story. I always back roll that ...I find a 517 to produce too much overspray for my taste. 413-415 is more appropriate for nowadays exterior paints or solid stains.


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## DynaPLLC (Oct 25, 2013)

Crackshot said:


> yep 414 , just dont fog /mist it. it will fail so quick... just get it on there.. =D I dont backroll anymore.. even when they say to.


414 has to be a FF? Not necessary for ext work


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## Phinnster (Feb 20, 2013)

Jake you don't like spraying because of fear of flashing ?
You seem to know what your doing and I am shocked by this comment.

Also ca painter your are scaring me as well 
All siding should be back brushed after spraying 

Jake all your doing with a sprayer Is putting the product on the house then working it in with your brush ( still work in small sections )
There should be no reason it would flash any more then pot and brush , in fact it should help 
You can move quicker 

I think low pressure and a smaller tip gives you more control with less over spray


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Phinnster said:


> Jake you don't like spraying because of fear of flashing ?
> You seem to know what your doing and I am shocked by this comment.
> 
> Also ca painter your are scaring me as well
> ...


I would agree that a bare substrate would benefit from backrolling. But a previously painted surface doesn't require it, in my opinion. And the fact that an undisturbed sprayed surface will provide the recommended mil build up of a paint film better than a rolled surface, can not be disputed.


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## Phinnster (Feb 20, 2013)

Again 
We don't see a lot of stucco in north east 
Wood claps and shingles yes


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

515 all day long. Backroll/brush as needed. Not everything needs it. Smaller areas, maybe a 413-415....


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## kmp (Jan 30, 2011)

I use a tip just big enough to cover the width of a single piece of siding and don't do more than three or four pieces at a time. I never stop in the middle or work my way down the ladder, always across from side to side. Hard board will get backrolled if it has started to delaminate but if it is cement board I don't.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

goga said:


> Doubling that. "Filling" the voids has to be done before any final paint goes onto the surface.


What?no liquid caulk in the gaps or flooding the potholes? jk


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

Phinnster said:


> Jake you don't like spraying because of fear of flashing ?
> You seem to know what your doing and I am shocked by this comment.
> 
> Also ca painter your are scaring me as well
> ...


Not to poo poo your comment but do you prime previously painted walls? Probably not, so why would you backroll/brush a previously sound substrate. I agree new shake, bare areas, etc should all be backrolled.


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## JakeTheAnchor (Feb 23, 2016)

Phinnster said:


> Jake you don't like spraying because of fear of flashing ?
> You seem to know what your doing and I am shocked by this comment.
> 
> Also ca painter your are scaring me as well
> ...



Maybe it's just me..but that came off kind of rude. 
I'm talking specifically about siding. Not stucco..not doors..not trim...not gutters...just siding. I'm here asking advice. It's actually been about a year and a half since I've had to spray siding myself. Most of our work is stucco. If i took your introduction the wrong way..let me know..not trying to be a jerk. 

The siding is in perfect shape and wasn't in the sun. And as i said..it may not have flashed...i'll find out next week after the rainfall stops. It's just been in the back of my head after hearing a story from another painter at the store.


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## goga (Aug 6, 2015)

Just for the basic info on painting.. It makes no diff if it is rolled, brushed or sprayed, or even palm spread, if there is a double overlap, especially after couple of minutes, there will be shinier spot, or.. flashing, which will go away within some time, well.. most of it. 

If the siding was sprayed with overlap yet without blending it from both sides, it will show.


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## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

CApainter said:


> I doubt many paint manufacturers recommend back rolling after spraying in most situations. There is no way you can build a decent film with a roller in comparison with a spray gun.


Spraying lays the paint on top of substrate if it's a rough side out clap like we have mostly here in my area, back brushing is needed and provides a more uniform finish.

If the substrate has failed coatings and its scraped , sanded or feathered in by power it looks more uniform when back brushed be it shingles or claps.

The big difference we see here is what we call a blow & go paint job where the painters just spray . The finish looks Un uniform and does not last although the price is much cheaper as less labor. Back rolling or brushing proves a much longer lasting job at least where we live and work and looks 100 percent more professional. If it's a smooth side out clap we still BB the first coat and then spray the second.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

There were many times I painted homes in San Francisco, where we rolled and laid off with a brush. That's a practice still done today where siding is in bad shape.

But there are plenty of occasions, like large overhangs for example, that are a waste of time to back roll and don't provide any extra value in looks or performance.

A paint film is designed to shrink as it is coalescing. The shrinking dynamics pulls it into the surface whether you've brushed, sprayed, or rolled. That's why it's important to apply the correct mis.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> I doubt many paint manufacturers recommend back rolling after spraying in most situations. There is no way you can build a decent film with a roller in comparison with a spray gun.


32 years of arguing this point with painters. And it is almost always recommended by the paint chemist/engineer/spec guys. Why? Why,why,why?

I guess I should add "reputable" paint manufacturers.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> I would agree that a bare substrate would benefit from backrolling. But a previously painted surface doesn't require it, in my opinion. And the fact that an undisturbed sprayed surface will provide the recommended mil build up of a paint film better than a rolled surface, can not be disputed.


Don't backroll with a dry roller and you won't have that problem.(Ba-zinga!) The idea isn't to push the paint into any surface voids, only to make sure there are no voids left between the old paint and the new paint where moisture can get trapped. Like I said, on a smooth surface it isn't needed unless you are planning on falling back on a worthless warranty.

But then again, this may be a much bigger issue here in the midwest where we get some pretty extreme temperature and humidity changes, unlike the bay area. LOL! No humidity changes there!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

thinkpainting/nick said:


> Spraying lays the paint on top of substrate if it's a rough side out clap like we have mostly here in my area, back brushing is needed and provides a more uniform finish.
> 
> If the substrate has failed coatings and its scraped , sanded or feathered in by power it looks more uniform when back brushed be it shingles or claps.
> 
> The big difference we see here is what we call a blow & go paint job where the painters just spray . The finish looks Un uniform and does not last although the price is much cheaper as less labor. Back rolling or brushing proves a much longer lasting job at least where we live and work and looks 100 percent more professional. If it's a smooth side out clap we still BB the first coat and then spray the second.


Now who would do such a thing? I Don't know!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> There were many times I painted homes in San Francisco, where we rolled and laid off with a brush. That's a practice still done today where siding is in bad shape.
> 
> But there are plenty of occasions, like large overhangs for example, that are a waste of time to back roll and don't provide any extra value in looks or performance.
> 
> A paint film is designed to shrink as it is coalescing. The shrinking dynamics pulls it into the surface whether you've brushed, sprayed, or rolled. That's why it's important to apply the correct mis.


But if it coalesces across a bubble, it will crack as it shrinks. It only pulls it onto the surface if it is in CONTACT with the surface, and that is what the paint people want to make sure happens when they say to backroll.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Now everybody run on down to your local SW and ask the counter help about this just to make sure I am correct. I mean, they ARE highly trained paint experts aren't they?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> But if it coalesces across a bubble, it will crack as it shrinks. It only pulls it onto the surface if it is in CONTACT with the surface, and that is what the paint people want to make sure happens when they say to backroll.


What do you think happens when paint is sprayed on a surface, it levitates? lOL


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> What do you think happens when paint is sprayed on a surface, it levitates? lOL


No. But hey you guys are the professionals. You should know if something needs backrolled or not. I'm just reiterating what the reputable paint companies recommend as a best practice. That's my job.

Ever seen a peeling McDonald's? They are usually spec'd in a DTM acrylic (or at least they used to be). But they typically only gave the painters one day or often one night to prep and paint the entire exterior. I had a painter that would try to powerwash the day ahead if he was lucky, and then spray the two toned walls and the red trim in one 10 hour period. Nothing got back rolled. A couple of years later they would peel right on schedule. It was so bad the guy had to change the name of his company every year.

That's also why you almost never see faded red trim on a McDonald's. It doesn't usually stick long enough to fade.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

PACman said:


> That's also why you almost never see faded red trim on a McDonald's. It doesn't usually stick long enough to fade.


They should try the same technology they use in their food whereby it can sit on a table for six years and look exactly the same as the day it was made.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I think there is a tendency for many painters to advocate backrolling because they don't know how to spray. The last thing I will ever do is eff up a beautiful sprayed finish by backrolling. 

Can you imagine what car finishes would look like if your theory was correct PAC? LO..DOUBLE-L!


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## JakeTheAnchor (Feb 23, 2016)

PACman said:


> Now everybody run on down to your local SW and ask the counter help about this just to make sure I am correct. I mean, they ARE highly trained paint experts aren't they?


Kellymoore in Napa, CA really know what they're talking about. Our paint rep did a lot of painting on the high end homes back in the day. seems like almost weekly he's taking one of the shop guys to a training course


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Whenever we sprayed the interior of a SP-5 blasted storage tank with epoxy, the only application method we did that didn't involve a spray gun, was when we were striping welds, bolts, and any other configuration that wouldn't allow a complete coating with a spray gun. Now, we're talking about a two mil profile on the steel surface. Pretty damn rough substrate. 

After two to three coats, without the use of a roller, we would check for pin holes with a spark meter. I swear, you could count on your left hand (_where you only had three fingers left because of that home improvement project your wife nagged you into doing on that beautiful Saturday you could have been fishing_) the numder of pin holes.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> I think there is a tendency for many painters to advocate backrolling because they don't know how to spray. The last thing I will ever do is eff up a beautiful sprayed finish by backrolling.
> 
> Can you imagine what car finishes would look like if your theory was correct PAC? LO..DOUBLE-L!


We're talking exterior architectural finishes here, not furniture or automotive finishes. If you are getting automotive quality finishes on house exteriors you are grossly underpaid.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> Whenever we sprayed the interior of a SP-5 blasted storage tank with epoxy, the only application method we did that didn't involve a spray gun, was when we were striping welds, bolts, and any other configuration that wouldn't allow a complete coating with a spray gun. Now, we're talking about a two mil profile on the steel surface. Pretty damn rough substrate.
> 
> After two to three coats, without the use of a roller, we would check for pin holes with a spark meter. I swear, you could count on your left hand (_where you only had three fingers left because of that home improvement project your wife nagged you into doing on that beautiful Saturday you could have been fishing_) the numder of pin holes.


again, different thing. plus two or three coats.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

JakeTheAnchor said:


> Kellymoore in Napa, CA really know what they're talking about. Our paint rep did a lot of painting on the high end homes back in the day. seems like almost weekly he's taking one of the shop guys to a training course


Kelly Moore is a mainstay in the Bay Area. I remember my boss picking up paint and supplies, along with a couple of illegal aliens, from the store on Army st. (now Cesar Chavez) and Mission st. in San Francisco. I believe the store has since been closed.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> again, different thing. plus two or three coats.


I guarantee you, if you're applying paint with a roller, you better be prepared to apply two to three coats to meet the manufacturers recommended DFT, and still have a nice finish.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> again, different thing. plus two or three coats.


Applying paint is applying paint. And unless you're applying a block filler for the purpose of filling bug holes in concrete, or filling porous stucco, there's no requirement to roll a surface. Although, I would have to use a roller where I couldn't spray.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> Applying paint is applying paint. And unless you're applying a block filler for the purpose of filling bug holes in concrete, or filling porous stucco, there's no requirement to roll a surface. Although, I would have to use a roller where I couldn't spray.


Isn't it about time for you to go paint something?


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

lilpaintchic said:


> 515 all day long. Backroll/brush as needed. Not everything needs it. Smaller areas, maybe a 413-415....


515 seems to be our default exterior tip as well. We don't backroll Hardi-board or smooth stuff. If it's rough and porous I like to backroll. Bare wood back roll primer. I actually like spraying out a house. I think I'll do more painting this year, I have a smaller crew than last year and am not super excited about hiring more people. Trying to cherry pick the easy profitable jobs and let the challenging ones go to someone else.


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## DynaPLLC (Oct 25, 2013)

PACman said:


> We're talking exterior architectural finishes here, not furniture or automotive finishes. If you are getting automotive quality finishes on house exteriors you are grossly underpaid.


That's why you charge extra and spray only. BAM, automotive finish

Ever sprayed 4 wet mil of lacquer? Where did 3mil go in the process of drying?
You better ask your supplier for your money back cuz you paid for 4 mil not just 1...:thumbsup:


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

capainter said:


> i think there is a tendency for many painters to advocate backrolling because they don't know how to spray. The last thing i will ever do is eff up a beautiful sprayed finish by backrolling.
> 
> Can you imagine what car finishes would look like if your theory was correct pac? Lo..double-l!


exactly spot on!!


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## Phinnster (Feb 20, 2013)

Lil paint chick 
And ca 
I don't agree ( not that it matters )
Then again I am not sure if we are all on the same page as to what substrate we are referring to 
If you ask me spraying stucco and back rolling would give a better and tighter finish ?
Also for claps and shingles I Benvie it works the product in more and tighter as well 

Now for a door or something well of course not 
Again we can all have our own opinions on this one

My last post on this topic
Good luck !


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

Of course ya gotta br or bb those porous substrates. 
It's all the other stuff that you can use experience and discression on. Ya don't bb the door, but the trim ya do? Or the flat, lap siding? Why?


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

If it's a porous surface that requires back brushing/rolling to fill voids or promote absorption then by all means I think it's best. At least on initial coats. 

Otherwise all your doing by disturbing the paint after it's been applied is stressing the developing bond between material and substrate, and as CA pointed out compromising film build. 

Also, I don't think a rough surface is necessarily a porous one. Previously painted cedar or stucco in good condition for example may be rough, but not porous. 

In some cases I think the process of coalescence is enough to ensure potential voids in a film applied to a semi rough but nonporous surface are filled, provided enough material is present for that to happen optimally. 

I used to be a back brush everything kind of guy, but have changed my mind on its necessity or usefulness in some situations over the years. 

And it's also true that back rolling can compensate for an uneven spray application. I do this a lot of times when shielding (rather than masking), as it's hard for me to get an even film that way. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

PACman said:


> backrolling/brushing is what is recommended by most reputable paint manufacturers for their warranties. Even if you get the correct mil thickness with just spraying, they still want it to be back rolled to make sure any voids are filled. Probably the only exceptions would be if you were painting vinyl or aluminum siding that was fairly smooth with no surface defects. Even then if there is a warranty claim they would probably like to see it backrolled.
> 
> But then again, if you believe every paint warranty, I have some land to sell you at the head of the Black Fork creek.



Can you give an example of a manufacturer wanting back rolling on smooth, or semi-rough nonporous surface to meet warranty requirements? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Jmayspaint said:


> Can you give an example of a manufacturer wanting back rolling on smooth, or semi-rough nonporous surface to meet warranty requirements?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It rarely is on the individual product spec's. It's usually hidden in a finish spec book somewhere. If they think the product failed because it could have or should have been backrolled trust me they will pull it out of their arse. I wish I could get a good picture of the steel building my store is in. When they sprayed it two years ago they didn't backroll at all. Now it has pinholes showing up all over the place with little rust stains coming through. Of course they sprayed it as thin as they could, so pinholes can be expected. But now the owner is going to have to have it redone way too soon. But that's why you don't have your "maintenance" guy paint your strip mall. I think real painters should know when the paint is applied properly one way or another. I did after all say that smooth surfaces shouldn't need to be back rolled if the millage is thick enough. But I am speaking from experience when I am talking about back rolling and warranties. If push comes to shove that is usually a go to way to get out of paying. What about elastomerics? Should they be back rolled on a smooth surface?


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

Are we priming it?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> ... What about elastomerics? Should they be back rolled on a smooth surface?


No back rolling recommendations after "Airless Spraying" for VIP 8100 elastomeric.

*Method of Application*
Coating is ready for use. Do not thin. Material may be applied by airless spray, power roller or conventional roller. Surfaces that have been properly prepared are to receive a pinhole free application of VIP8100 to achieve the recommended dry film thickness.​ 
*Power Roller:* Apply a liberal coat and check application with a wet film gauge to ensure that minimum wet film thickness is obtained. Backroll in a downward motion to ensure a uniform finish with the stipple all in one direction. Coverage rate will vary and is dependent upon the texture and profile of the surface. Dry film thickness of completed project is based 10-12 mils dry.​ 
*Airless Spray:* Apply a liberal coat in a cross-hatch pattern, check film thickness with a wet film thickness gauge to ensure that minimum wet film thickness is obtained. Coverage will vary and is dependent upon the texture and profile of the surface. Dry film thickness of completed project is based 10-12 mils dry. Wear respiratory protection if exposure to vapor or mist from processing is possible.

*Conventional Roller:* Apply in two coats, check application with a wet film gauge to ensure that the minimum wet film thickness of each coat is obtained. Keep roller cover saturated with material at all times. Finish off with a dry roller in downward direction to ensure a uniform finish with the stipple all in one direction. Second coat should be applied when material is no longer tacky (4-6 hours). Coverage will vary and is dependent upon the texture and profile of the surface. Dry film thickness of completed project is based on 10-12 mils​

*Link to VIP 8100 TDS:* 
http://kbam.geampod.com/kbam/reflection/assets/10459.pdf


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> No back rolling recommendations after "Airless Spraying" for VIP 8100 elastomeric.
> 
> *Method of Application*
> Coating is ready for use. Do not thin. Material may be applied by airless spray, power roller or conventional roller. Surfaces that have been properly prepared are to receive a pinhole free application of VIP8100 to achieve the recommended dry film thickness.​
> ...


There's that dry film thickness thing again! Do you suppose that is important?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> There's that dry film thickness thing again! Do you suppose that is important?


Of course.:blink: And if you're implying that you can only achieve that by backrolling, sadly, you would be wrong.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

what's the point of building millage then pulling it back off with a bb or br? yes, ya gotta have it in the peaks and valleys (if there are any, and that would likely be achieved with primer or loxon or?? and br'd in) but beyond that imo, you're just shooting yourself in the foot and working against yourself...


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

TRUMP FOR PRESIDENT! There now get off my butt for mentioning this side of the issue. Just talk to a paint chemist then.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

So sensitive, jeeze...lol; )


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Maybe I went a little too far with the Trump thing.
Just seems to be a good way to deflect.....


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

I'm voting for Felix the cat. Or mighty mouse...can't decide..


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

I'm voting for Gary Busey. If I gotta vote for someone who is bat**** crazy I might as well be entertained.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> TRUMP FOR PRESIDENT! There now get off my butt for mentioning this side of the issue. Just talk to a paint chemist then.


Any Lab Geek would tell you that most paints have wetting properties that allow a coating to migrate into the nooks and crannys, provided the painters keeps a wet edge, and applies the proper WFT.

And even though there are times when back rolling is required (block filler for example) or when spraying is restricted, back rolling creates a coarser surface then what would be ideal, in my opinion.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

CApainter said:


> Any Lab Geek would tell you that most paints have wetting properties that allow a coating to migrate into the nooks and crannys, provided the painters keeps a wet edge, and applies the proper WFT.
> 
> And even though there are times when back rolling is required (block filler for example) or when spraying is restricted, back rolling creates a coarser surface then what would be ideal, in my opinion.


Hmmm. What about bubbles from the paint displacing air from the nooks and crannies? Don't those become pin holes? 

Are we possibly saying that paint quality may be another factor in the need to back roll or not? Could be.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PACman said:


> Hmmm. What about bubbles from the paint displacing air from the nooks and crannies? Don't those become pin holes?
> 
> Are we possibly saying that paint quality may be another factor in the need to back roll or not? Could be.


I think without excellent wetting properties, back rolling may be necessary. So therefore.....Hey!.. wait a minute! You duped me PAC! I had no idea I would fall into the SW trap.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Like I said, this has been a "thing" between painters in general and the paint manufactures as long as I have been selling paint. I kind of put it in the same category as boxing all the same color cans together. Years ago it was on every companies labels, but at some point it started to seem to imply poor quality control. (as in the home depot Diy customer that can't understand why all 40 of her gallons she bought in the last 5 years weren't touch-up quality matches to one another.) It's kind of fallen into that kind of thought process. Brand b doesn't say to back roll and they say they are the best paint so why should I have to back roll brand v? That Kind of thing. And of course I am not talking about products that have very specific application needs, just regular old house paint.

And as far as a roller removing some of the paint? That is part of the paint quality/type issue as well. Some paints do this a lot worse then others. (think about spraying and back rolling Aura for example. Not a particularly easy thing to do I would imagine.) (and yes I know some of you can do it with no problems!) Typically backrolling will give a more uniform film for someone that doesn't have mad spray gun skills. Like production painters. Otherwise, why would I be selling rollers at all?


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## DynaPLLC (Oct 25, 2013)

http://www.paintinfo.com/cn/cnp-020.shtml

Not to stir anyone's feelings but these guys look like they know what they're talking about.
Read up and take what you want from it.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

already read it (only remember about half of it though..lol). there is definitely value in the information. question of the day though..WERE THE SURFACES PROPERLY PREPPED? uh---nope. You can back roll it all day long but if the surface is contaminated from the start, back rolling will "help" but not be a panacea for properly cleaning and applying an acceptable primer or loxon or some such thing... and i don't care if you back roll 100 mils on it, it'll peel like a bad sunburn simply because of poor surface prep ime anyway... i don't use a lot of elastos though...


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

DynaPLLC said:


> http://www.paintinfo.com/cn/cnp-020.shtml
> 
> Not to stir anyone's feelings but these guys look like they know what they're talking about.
> Read up and take what you want from it.


The point they make about the spec sheets and printed info is pretty much what I have already said. Only they left out the "reputable" manufacturer part I mentioned. Myself being not particularly attached to any one manufacturer can be a little more honest about this. No paint company is going to admit to being not so reputable! But I myself would be quite concerned with a spec to just slap a high performance (and HIGH liability!) product on a twenty story building in La Jolla. Been there, bought the T-shirt, sat in court as a witness.


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## GreenReaper (Jul 18, 2016)

Really depends on the substrate and it's condition. Primer, if used and first cover coat are backed up as as needed. I keep a brush & roller combo handy. I shoot it a medium heavy coat and inspect. If I detect voids it gets backed up. Play it by ear from there. 
May sound over simplified but spray an area and check it. I prefer brushing but sometimes a roller is more effective. Sometimes I roll to fill minor porosity and brush for effect. When you _can_ spray and get even coverage in a timely manner... that's your final coat! Do it proud! 
Hard to estimate some jobs but the end result is hard to dispute. That's just me, not criticizing- do what works for you. 
I'll get off of my soap box now. <><


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