# Latex over oil remove project



## tequilua (Sep 16, 2012)

Need your guys professional help or advice. Client want to repaint trim, but trick is that it was painted with latex over oil paint and its peeling now. The obvious step its to strip the paint and cover properly, but... its 7,000 sq ft. house and all the trim inside peeling, plus half of the walls are covered by cabinets which are also peeling, almost hundred railing spindles, all doors and windows. Is there any possibility to avoid striping? By the way client live there with the childrens, so i dont even want to propose chemical strippers. May be some pentatrating sealer can bond latex to oil, or any other options? And if to go with stripping what time needed to strip one railing spindle or door for even an approximate estimate for this job. 
Damn, i think some trim can have good adhersion so it makes project even more complicated :icon_rolleyes:








Sorry for my English, hope I did not broke your eyes :bangin:


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

tequilua said:


> Need your guys professional help or advice. Client want to repaint trim, but trick is that it was painted with latex over oil paint and its peeling now. The obvious step its to strip the paint and cover properly, but... its 7,000 sq ft. house and all the trim inside peeling, plus half of the walls are covered by cabinets which are also peeling, almost hundred railing spindles, all doors and windows. Is there any possibility to avoid striping? By the way client live there with the childrens, so i dont even want to propose chemical strippers. May be some pentatrating sealer can bond latex to oil, or any other options? And if to go with stripping what time needed to strip one railing spindle or door for even an approximate estimate for this job.
> Damn, i think some trim can have good adhersion so it makes project even more complicated :icon_rolleyes:
> 
> 
> ...


 yes
no
and no


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

It's hard to say how long a stripper would take. each one could take different amount of time.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Looks like a job for some tequila Tequilua!


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

I think I would try to do this one 'time & material. There are so many variables, any contract price would need to be crazy high to cover your a$$.


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## squid (Dec 25, 2012)

That trim underscores the importance of product knowledge.

I would get your hands on a couple of strippers and give them a shot. Track the time it takes, project out rest of trim and double it to allow for cleanup. Then tell the HO the college fund will be needed to get the job done.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

On a serious note I have ran across unsound paint on woodwork and the such and applied peelbond after lightly sanding and cleaning to lock it in and down to the unsound.I was leery of this at 1st but tried a sample of it on door trim and allowed to cure and it resisted fingernail test.


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## squid (Dec 25, 2012)

Wow your hand must be tired from all that typing lol. Certainly a more practical approach to mine or running like h e double hockey sticks.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

squid said:


> Wow your hand must be tired from all that typing lol. Certainly a more practical approach to mine or running like h e double hockey sticks.


 I do prefer shorthand.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

squid said:


> Wow your hand must be tired from all that typing lol. Certainly a more practical approach to mine or running like h e double hockey sticks.


 Yes I feel like an octopus this morning squid.:whistling2:


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

what a bummer, I wouldn't use stripper. Just good ol fashion sanding and scraping.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

There is a product called straight nine. Its a degreaser cleaner. It will loosen it up . Use brillo pads and a million pad sanders. Good luck.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

There is a product called straight nine. Its a degreaser cleaner. It will loosen it up . Use brillo pads and a million pad sanders. Good luck.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Yea I think I would go at it with a mild solvent and some 3m green pads first. Then sand the rest down to the oil base coat. 

Hard to imagine coming up with any prices until you get in there and see how long a certain amount will take. This will be a bear of job.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

I too would only bid this T&M. If the HO doesn't like that then I would walk away. You stand to lose more than you can gain - and you could lose a lot.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

I would only do this at a T and M at a premium price. 

The pita factor alone justifies this. Also the fact that whoever did this job got a lowballer to do it, justifies this. 

It might not be the current HO's fault but once they pay, I bet the realtor would hear about it and maybe this could bring the awareness level up a bit in the long term. 

"Yeah Jimmie McDonald's new home was really messed up by Susan Markovich's painter before she sold. I guess he's pissed off and said he's going to tell everybody he knows not to go with our Realty company because of the thousands it's going to cost to fix the problem. Maybe we should pay for it, and be more vigilant in the future and make sure to get quality paint companies for sales.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Paradigmzz said:


> There is a product called straight nine. Its a degreaser cleaner. It will loosen it up . Use brillo pads and a million pad sanders. Good luck.


You can say that again...oh, wait, you already did:jester:

Seriously, I would look at something less than paint strippers. We've had good success with detergent solutions and 3M pads. We've used hot-water power washers on doors (cabinet and entry) or even taken them to the local coin-op carwash. The overall idea is to get the latex good and wet, which loosens it enough for it to come off with a 3M pad or a scraper. It may come off in long ribbons; we've been able to take poorly-adhered latex off of entire walls or ceilings in one piece. That's always fun to show the client: hold up the sheet of paint from the entire bathroom lid and ask them if they want to keep the old paint.

In any case, I would approach this as a T&M. If they are hesitant, offer to do some test samples in each area and use those numbers to develop a firm price. If they balk at that, I'd walk away.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> Yea I think I would go at it with a mild solvent and some 3m green pads first. Then sand the rest down to the oil base coat.
> 
> Hard to imagine coming up with any prices until you get in there and see how long a certain amount will take. This will be a bear of job.


I'd probably just use warm soapy water, work it like removing wall paper.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

A cheap route would be just to sand the areas where it's peeling. Then top coat the whole thing with cover stain or some other oil bonding primer, then top coat with oil. It will create a hard shell over that stuff. The bad part is you will still have a weak link. Done this many times and it holds up pretty well. Obviously removing all the water base first is the correct way but this cheap route could work.

Pat


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Gough said:


> You can say that again...oh, wait, you already did:jester:
> 
> Seriously, I would look at something less than paint strippers. We've had good success with detergent solutions and 3M pads. We've used hot-water power washers on doors (cabinet and entry) or even taken them to the local coin-op carwash. The overall idea is to get the latex good and wet, which loosens it enough for it to come off with a 3M pad or a scraper. It may come off in long ribbons; we've been able to take poorly-adhered latex off of entire walls or ceilings in one piece. That's always fun to show the client: hold up the sheet of paint from the entire bathroom lid and ask them if they want to keep the old paint.
> 
> In any case, I would approach this as a T&M. If they are hesitant, offer to do some test samples in each area and use those numbers to develop a firm price. If they balk at that, I'd walk away.


I didn't see your post before my previous post.good points. Probably could even use a steamer.


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## Sir Mixalot (Sep 8, 2009)

Like others have said, Time & Materials is the only way to do this project. It's fair to you and the customer. Otherwise, you'll have to pad the bid for worse case scenario or you will lose money on this one. :yes:
Give them your hourly rate and start tomorrow. Win. Win. :thumbup:


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

ewingpainting.net said:


> I'd probably just use warm soapy water, work it like removing wall paper.


It may work. Krud Kutter will also soften latex paint along with other mild cleaning agents. Just thinking of the hours of scrubbing makes my hands and elbows hurt.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

ewingpainting.net said:


> I didn't see your post before my previous post.good points. Probably could even use a steamer.


We've used a steamer when we've had entire walls that needed this treatment.

My main concern about using the band-aid approach that PatsPainting suggested is, as he mentioned, that it leaves a weak link. I'm very hesitant to take that route, as it can come back to bite you later. It's only a little different than what the previous painter did, and we can see how that worked out.


"If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?"

-B. Rutten


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

Paradigmzz said:


> There is a product called straight nine. Its a degreaser cleaner. It will loosen it up . Use brillo pads and a million pad sanders. Good luck.


No wonder you have 3356 posts. I'm gonna start double posting from now on.


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## Wood511 (Dec 13, 2010)

Definitely go with pressure washing on this one. Fixing the water damage will be cheaper than the T & M necessary to square this up.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Gough said:


> My main concern about using the band-aid approach that PatsPainting suggested is, as he mentioned, that it leaves a weak link. I'm very hesitant to take that route, as it can come back to bite you later. It's only a little different than what the previous painter did, and we can see how that worked out.


I would be hesitant about pats suggestion too. A coat of paint can get heavy for lose paint, let alone primer and top coats. I can see it for budget reasons. If done like pat suggested I would let the home owner know effected areas may/appear and work is not guaranteed

...


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Wood511 said:


> Definitely go with pressure washing on this one. Fixing the water damage will be cheaper than the T & M necessary to square this up.


Uh...we do that with the parts that we can take off site, but I think you knew that.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

ewingpainting.net said:


> I would be hesitant about pats suggestion too. A coat of paint can get heavy for lose paint, let alone primer and top coats. I can see it for budget reasons. If done like pat suggested I would let the home owner know effected areas may/appear and work is not guaranteed
> 
> ...



This is becoming a pretty common problem since they took most of the oil enamels off the market. Home owners running to HD and buying crap Behr and applying right over old oil trim. Then after a month or so it starts to come off in sheets. However not all of it easily comes off. Some make the mistake of trying to scrape if off thus making a bigger mess. I have found that lightly sanded the areas where it's peeling and then priming the entire item with an oil primer. Then top coating it with an Oil Enamel works. Again it's not perfect but it does solve the problem of it peeling off in sheets if it gets dinged later on.

I also let the customer know that there could be issues down the road but they should be minimal. It's either that or a complete strip which I'm not going to do. That's not my thing. To time consuming and not all that profitable.

And they say all paint jobs are the same. Well the OP customer paid to have somebody destroy their house. 

Pat


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## matt19422 (Oct 2, 2009)

I would media blast off the latex with soda or dry ice.


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## tequilua (Sep 16, 2012)

Thx everyone for help, i will stop in T&M and will propose to scrape it. If he payed to the painter once and got this problem, i dont want to be the second one when paint start to go down again in half year. I wonder if i put 3M High perfomance green Masking tape over the trim and try to take it down in a while, it can catch part of loosing paint. Any expirience?


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

tequilua said:


> Thx everyone for help, i will stop in T&M and will propose to scrape it. If he payed to the painter once and got this problem, i dont want to be the second one when paint start to go down again in half year. I wonder if i put 3M High perfomance green Masking tape over the trim and try to take it down in a while, it can catch part of loosing paint. Any expirience?


No sure if I know what you mean, but we've used 3M duct tape (the no-residue version) to remove failed coatings. It's worth a try, especially on running trim. Put it on, smooth it down, take it off with the failed coating stuck to it.


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## tequilua (Sep 16, 2012)

Gough said:


> No sure if I know what you mean, but we've used 3M duct tape (the no-residue version) to remove failed coatings. It's worth a try, especially on running trim. Put it on, smooth it down, take it off with the failed coating stuck to it.


This is exactly what i meant


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

I would have two different approaches to tackling this job. 

1. would be as Gabe mentioned below and 2. would be to pass and move on to another project. 


ewingpainting.net said:


> what a bummer, I wouldn't use stripper. Just good ol fashion sanding and scraping.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

Gough said:


> No sure if I know what you mean, but we've used 3M duct tape (the no-residue version) to remove failed coatings. It's worth a try, especially on running trim. Put it on, smooth it down, take it off with the failed coating stuck to it.


So what happens to all the other stuff that does not come off? bust out the sanders?, patch it?. Gotta be honest that sounds freaking crazy to go around and put tape on chit, then rip it off like your waxin your wife's biscuit area.

I would bet the odds are here that the OP will get in there and dig him self a huge hole that he or nobody else will want to go near.

Pat


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

dig him self a huge hole that he or nobody else will want to go near.

Pat[/QUOTE
Stay away from dark scary holes unless its the bat cave or sombodies freaky biscuit...


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

I think I might just refer them to a good carpenter.......


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

PatsPainting said:


> So what happens to all the other stuff that does not come off? bust out the sanders?, patch it?. Gotta be honest that sounds freaking crazy to go around and put tape on chit, then rip it off like your waxin your wife's biscuit area.
> 
> I would bet the odds are here that the OP will get in there and dig him self a huge hole that he or nobody else will want to go near.
> 
> Pat


The tape takes care of the really loose stuff. We've had it take off 100% of the newest paint/finish- five minutes to strip 12-16 feet of trim. Other times, it leaves behind areas that need some soaking and scraping/sanding with a 3M pad. You're right, in some instances, there are times when it just isn't worth it. It's just another tool in the arsenal.

Looking at the pictures of the trim from the OP, sanders would be the last choice. Way too much detail to deal with.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

When considering if stripping is necessary, just remember a coating is only as strong as its weakest link.

we had a large room like that back in '78ish.

We used denatured alcohol and scrub pads to loosen and remove the latex paint. It was messy and time consuming. HO was NOT happy, but they wanted a job that wouldn't peel.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

daArch said:


> When considering if stripping is necessary, just remember a coating is only as strong as its weakest link.
> 
> we had a large room like that back in '78ish.
> 
> We used denatured alcohol and scrub pads to loosen and remove the latex paint. It was messy and time consuming. HO was NOT happy, but they wanted a job that wouldn't peel.


Is this the reason that you stick to wallcoverings now??


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

daArch said:


> When considering if stripping is necessary, just remember a coating is only as strong as its weakest link.
> 
> we had a large room like that back in '78ish.
> 
> We used denatured alcohol and scrub pads to loosen and remove the latex paint. It was messy and time consuming. HO was NOT happy, but they wanted a job that wouldn't peel.


Denatured will rewet latex. I'd be afraid you would get the floors trashed.


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## alanbarrington (Apr 30, 2013)

PatsPainting said:


> A cheap route would be just to sand the areas where it's peeling. Then top coat the whole thing with cover stain or some other oil bonding primer, then top coat with oil. It will create a hard shell over that stuff. The bad part is you will still have a weak link. Done this many times and it holds up pretty well. Obviously removing all the water base first is the correct way but this cheap route could work.
> 
> Pat


I would have to agree with pat going the cheaper way because you know once you lock it down with the oil it's down, but I would tell the HOs both sides give them the option. Never no they may go cheap way. I have done both ways I do have to say after I lock it down with the she's done.

Sent from my iPhone using PaintTalk


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

A project such as this is not a ideal project. Why should you assume responsiblity over someone eleses poor craftsmanship? When you cover it up, you hold responsibility. No thank you! I would charge acordingly, if its out of the budget um moving on. It's a pita job, deserves a pita price.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

ewingpainting.net said:


> A project such as this is not a ideal project. Why should you assume responsiblity over someone eleses poor craftsmanship? When you cover it up, you hold responsibility. No thank you! I would charge accordingly, if its out of the budget um moving on. It's a pita job, deserves a pita price.


That's the critical part. Otherwise, you're just going to end up cutting all of the corners you can. For us, in a small market and working 100% on referrals, doing a half-arse job is a non-starter. 

The long-term downside of doing this type of job correctly? You'll develop a reputation for doing so and more of them will come your way. That makes it even more critical to price the work accordingly. Otherwise, you won't just take a beating once, it'll happen on a regular basis.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

Yea I like to treat my paint jobs like roof jobs where there will be no more then 3 layers. If there is more then 3 or I would be the 4th then it gets completely stripped to bare wood. You never know there could be a layer in there that might fail due to being the wrong product, even though it looks ok from the surface. There is just no way I will take the responsibility of some other clown works. 

I mean you could tell the owner the situation. But there are no HO's that have any sense, most of them would look at you like your talking another language. 

Pat


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

I'm confused. How does putting more layers of any product make it better? If you are only as strong as your weakest adhesion link, wouldnt building layers make it easier to pull off in sheets once you got underneath it?


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

One of the problems with the band-aid approach seems to me that it just foists the real problem off on the next guy...and it doesn't get any easier to fix down the line. I think it's this sort of approach that has given tradespeople, and painters in particular, their generally poor reputation with the general public.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

TJ Paint said:


> I would only do this at a T and M at a premium price.
> 
> The pita factor alone justifies this...





ewingpainting.net said:


> It's a pita job, deserves a pita price.


Welcome aboard bro!


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Double post..


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