# How to prime chalky, peeling, alligatoring, lead, oil, and latex jumble?



## sensitive skin (Jul 24, 2013)

Hi all. I'm new to the forum, and relatively new to the trade.

I'm working on a house with some lead paint, at least a couple layers of oil (possibly more lead), and a 5 year old layer of latex that is peeling like a mofo on the sunny sides of the house.

I've got my lead license and my safety and containment gear so don't worry about that...

I powerwashed (collecting all water) and scraped a lot of the house already. I don't want to sand. I figure if I was going to sand I should have sandblasted or paint shaver pro'd or heated and stripped... (If any method of stripping a house "isn't really that bad" in anyone's experience please chime in because I have yet to go that route and could use some pointers for when I am one day ready to go all out and strip.)

So what we have on the sides that were bad, after scraping, is 30% bare wood, old cedar presumably, 20% chalky oil, which mostly has lead in it, and 50% recent latex. I'm assuming that the fella who did the most recent coat used a "self-priming" paint because there doesn't seem to be a primer between the new latex and the old oil.

In a lot of places, the new latex just tears away all the old paint down to the wood. In some places, where I am a little worried, where the old oil was still solid, we have the new latex peeling off of that. I am worried about these places because I don't want to peel off all of the latex. (Err... the 5 year old latex peeled easily off of the old oil in some places but not in all.) 


My big questions for today are what are economical primers and paints that I should use on the areas that are a real mess? Something to seal up the leftover chalk which I don't want to sand, to bond to the new latex which is presumably cheap and wants to peel right off of the undercoat, and to bond to the old oil coat which is still hard and slick on areas of the house that were shaded. 

"Zinsser Clear Peel Stop Primer" is cheap, any experience with this? Killz Complete Oil Primer is also quite reasonably priced. SW Exterior Oil Primer is $65/gal, that's pretty darn steep... Suggestions?

Also looking for suggestions for a topcoat. SW paint at 65 or 75/gallon is really going to kill my budget here, since I've already wasted a lot of time. If I am basically doomed because the recent latex is just going to continue peeling right off of the old oil and anything I put over it will come off with it, well then please be nice and try to offer some "reasonable" alternative to stripping the whole house. Like I mentioned - I think the latex has adhered to the oil in some places...

SO what do I want to use for a primer? And what's the economical topcoat? (I say economical here because I am aware that due to the recent crappy paintjob I still potentially screwed even if I use a top quality paint over it...)


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

I don't have time to read your post right now. I'm too busy painting.

Hang in there.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

New to the trade yet you collected your PW water?! :whistling2: Obviously you've lurked here enough to try and approach this the right way but BSing aint it. Plus I've never met an exterior that didn't require at least some sanding. If you don't remove ALL of the previous coating then you have to kill the edge somehow.


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## paintpimp (Jun 29, 2007)

Based in prices your staying from sw. Get a sw rep involved and he can get you started out in this job.


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## sensitive skin (Jul 24, 2013)

Gibberish45 said:


> New to the trade yet you collected your PW water?!


Yeah collected it with plastic... then nearly defeating the purpose I "filtered" more like just "strained" it through a dropcloth.  Better than nothing I figure.

paintpimp I don't understand your post. Why should I pay $65/gal for SW oil primer when Killz Oil Primer or Zinsser Peel Stop are $20/gal? I mean the SW product really can't be that much better. And 4 out of 5 SW reps aren't going to have paint experience or research knowledge. They're going to tell me things like "its guaranteed FOR LIFE" (e.g. SW Emerald) meaning what? That the paint is supposed to last 50 years and after that, when it starts peeling (probably at about 5 or 10 years if I do my absolute best with this crappy latex oil lead situation...) they're going to give me more paint for free or redo the houses for me?

Guaranteeing a paint for life is, I guess, equally ludicrous and audacious as charging $65/gal for exterior primer...


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Diy.


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

:w00t:


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

Only HOs pay $65 for SW alkyd primer. I pay way less, as does anyone with an account at SW (such as...real contractors), if I want it, which I don't (I like California Paint's oils). Kilz oil and Cover stain are more quick dry oils, more suited to interior work, IMO, and are not as good as long oil products, which cost more.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Sensitive skin, I hope your name is not descriptive! Your new coatings will only be as sound as the coating underneath it. If the previous painter's topcoat is not adhering to the oil then all of it needs to come off one way or another and I can't imagine how you could do such a thing without doing any sanding at all.

If this is your own home you are really doing a good job I think. If someone is paying you to do this in their home then you've stepped in it dude..... Maybe consider XIM peelbond to seal down what you don't want to remove I've heard good things about that product.


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## mcradice (Mar 19, 2011)

Gibberish45 said:


> Sensitive skin, I hope your name is not descriptive! Your new coatings will only be as sound as the coating underneath it. If the previous painter's topcoat is not adhering to the oil then all of it needs to come off one way or another and I can't imagine how you could do such a thing without doing any sanding at all.
> 
> If this is your own home you are really doing a good job I think. If someone is paying you to do this in their home then you've stepped in it dude..... *Maybe consider XIM peelbond to seal down what you don't want to remove I've heard good things about that product.*




It's great product for old homes, to do exactly what you stated. It, however, is NOT magic, and will fail where proper prep is not executed. And, NO, I DON'T work for XIM. This product is available at almost all paint stores. Some, though, keep it in the back. So, you'll need to axe for it. Yes, I said axe.


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

In Brazilian Portuguese, Axe is pronounced Ah shea.
And is a rocking form of music.

Other than that, you could also try the new thick Zin Peel Stop- which is made to compete with Peel Bond, and you might not have to axe for it-...lol


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

You said it was cedar. Is it rough sawn?


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## sensitive skin (Jul 24, 2013)

epretot said:


> You said it was cedar. Is it rough sawn?


Yes rough sawn. You mean are there semicircular sawmarks all over the clapboard? yeah. It's a "Cape Cod" built in the 1950s. Its a very plain house.


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## paintpimp (Jun 29, 2007)

sensitive skin said:


> Yeah collected it with plastic... then nearly defeating the purpose I "filtered" more like just "strained" it through a dropcloth.  Better than nothing I figure.
> 
> paintpimp I don't understand your post. Why should I pay $65/gal for SW oil primer when Killz Oil Primer or Zinsser Peel Stop are $20/gal? I mean the SW product really can't be that much better. And 4 out of 5 SW reps aren't going to have paint experience or research knowledge. They're going to tell me things like "its guaranteed FOR LIFE" (e.g. SW Emerald) meaning what? That the paint is supposed to last 50 years and after that, when it starts peeling (probably at about 5 or 10 years if I do my absolute best with this crappy latex oil lead situation...) they're going to give me more paint for free or redo the houses for me?
> 
> Guaranteeing a paint for life is, I guess, equally ludicrous and audacious as charging $65/gal for exterior primer...


 
Sorry, guess you knew it all already.


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## sensitive skin (Jul 24, 2013)

anyway... the verdict is glidden gripper seems like a great product. and kills premium seems good. i tried two oil primers and that would obviously have been a wrong route. shouldn't put oil over latex i don't think... i am a little suspicious of the gripper though, i don't know if it will have great penetration and while it covers super well and seems really great, i am going to have to do a few years' test between gripper and killz premium. using them both for now. saving the oil primer for bare wood. or when they legalize oil topcoats again? ciao


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

sensitive skin said:


> or when they legalize oil topcoats again? ciao



Oil top coats are not illigal, most stores do not carry them any more as latex is lamost as good. I oil prime every thing on exteriors after the prep is done, 19+ yrs doing it this way I have never had issues


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Ppg Permanizer plus or XIM peel bond / zinsser triple thick would be my suggestion. Scrape the loose paint, and just go over with this stuff. Sounds like you didn't clarify the scope of work prior to starting, and now are getting in over your head. Prep is where you get killed on old houses. Sounds like there are several issues going on. If we aren't stripping down to bare wood, and there are already signs of bubbling or peeling, I tell the HO BEFORE we start, I.e. in the proposal form / warranty that the house WILL peel or bubble again. Good luck


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## sensitive skin (Jul 24, 2013)

Damon T said:


> Ppg Permanizer plus or XIM peel bond / zinsser triple thick would be my suggestion. Scrape the loose paint, and just go over with this stuff. Sounds like you didn't clarify the scope of work prior to starting, and now are getting in over your head. Prep is where you get killed on old houses. Sounds like there are several issues going on. If we aren't stripping down to bare wood, and there are already signs of bubbling or peeling, I tell the HO BEFORE we start, I.e. in the proposal form / warranty that the house WILL peel or bubble again. Good luck


i tried zinsser triple thick and was very skeptical of how thinly it went on (it looked almost clear?? very little coverage)... i thought perhaps it is supposed to be like a glue and it is not concerned with hide?

xim peel bond (and triple thick) i am just be scared away because of the price. and i don't think i can get ppg products around here. (rhode island) do you dislike killz premium and complete and glidden gripper just because they are cheap and sold at home depot or do you have bad experiences with these products? (err i also tried zinsser cover stain and at a glance i think i preferred kills complete...)

the peeling and bubbling, i was thinking that it was mainly because a crappy "self priming" paint was used last with inadequate prep... i've been praying all along that i can get away without stripping the whole house, because i certainly didn't bid for that. but i scraped and scraped and scraped and now i'm sanding and sanding and sanding... plasticked off the whole neighborhood...

im in a little over my head as usual, but its working out.

back to the main point: i know oil paint should be much better, but i read somewhere about expanding and contracting and whatnot, how once you have a layer of acrylic on there, you should stick with acrylic... i was afraid that an oil primer between old and new acrylic would be less stable than just three layers of acrylic over the ancient oil... i think what you are saying is that oil primer works fine between patchy latex and new latex??

next order of business... for sooner or later, is WHAT IS THE  EFFICIENT WAY TO STRIP A LEAD (or even non-lead) HOUSE? because i've been looking into glassblasting and it seems like the only way to go...

ok sorry i talk so much thank you


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

sensitive skin said:


> i tried zinsser triple thick and was very skeptical of how thinly it went on (it looked almost clear?? very little coverage)... i thought perhaps it is supposed to be like a glue and it is not concerned with hide?
> 
> xim peel bond (and triple thick) i am just be scared away because of the price. and i don't think i can get ppg products around here. (rhode island) do you dislike killz premium and complete and glidden gripper just because they are cheap and sold at home depot or do you have bad experiences with these products? (err i also tried zinsser cover stain and at a glance i think i preferred kills complete...)
> 
> ...


If you need to ask, you most likely are not qualified.


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