# To Peel Bond or Not to Peel Bond, that is the question



## Tonyg

I typically carry a number of primers in the truck/trailer to every job. Just looked at what I have on the shelf - everything from an acrylic BM Fresh Start, SW Preprite acrylic Bonding Primer, Cover Stain, BIN, 123, SW latex and alkyd exterior primers (old A-100), BM Fresh Start exterior alkyd, Peel Bond, and a number of spray primers for incidentals. 

I usually sell the prep work as much as the actually painting so I prime much more than most do. I prime all 'vulnerable' areas where sun or water tend to wear harder. Even though the Aura (my preferred ext paint) is self priming I will also prime substrates that are severely oxidized (after cleaning of course.

I really like using the Peel Bond and I am considering just using this as my single exterior primer. If it is a matter of tannin bleed I can use a stain blocker but for most primer uses, including new wood, I am thinking of using only the Peel Bond. It goes on easy and dries clear making quicker application and essentially creates a new substrate. Using as a simple primer it doesn't need the high build application but would still offer at least 2 - 2.5 mils when brushed on moderately.

The question is to Peel Bond or Not to Peel Bond? Would taking most of the baggage off the truck and just use the Peel Bond as a preferred exterior primer or do you have other preferences. I am also considering the Mad Dog primers as well but have not tried them _(www.maddogprimer.com)._


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## 6126

I've used a lot of Peel Bond, and it does do great for certain areas. Especially T-111 siding. But, on new wood its not my preference. I prefer a slow drying oil primer that will penetrate deep into the wood.


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## plainpainter

I wouldn't trust my business to XIM - their products have gone to hell in a handbasket the last few years. I've had massive failures with XIM. Initially on certain projects these primers made me think that oil was gone, gone, gone. Now I am at the point where if a house is prone to re-peeling in as little as a year - then maybe folks should think about getting their home re-sided. Providing solutions to 'problem' areas and/or surfaces seems to be as effect as shoveling chit against the tide. I've gone back to 'spot' priming with an oil - and it doesn't have to be a great 'long' oil primer as well. Everything fails it seems. Maybe we should all just think about providing a 'good' job at a reasonable price and do severe time management on projects. You can prep some of these homes forever, and they'll still peel the very next year no matter what you do.


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## DeanV

What failures did you see? How did you use it? Based on your posts here, I cannot see you using it over loose paint without proper scraping first. If you could be more specific about the condition is failed under, I would appreciate it since I have been relying on PeelBond more the last year and this year.


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## [email protected]

I carry a 5'er of Peel bond. Love the stuff!


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## ewingpainting.net

Never used the stuff.


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## S.Indiana

Yea I've never used it either but It seems like a lot of you love it and use it. Sherwin williams is the only place I've seen it carried and I think they wanted $40/. Gal. Hate to spend that on a clear primer unless it's phenomenal


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## [email protected]

It does more than prime....


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## ewingpainting.net

It's a sealer, right?


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## S.Indiana

Most primers do more then just prime, no?


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## ewingpainting.net

> XIM Peel BondTM is a unique Water Based, Clear, Very High Building Bonder / Sealer
> that can fill and bridge rough surfaces. It is formulated to bond-to and seal a wide range
> of construction surfaces. It Bonds paint and will stay flexible over the life of the paint
> and, therefore, can help reduce cracking and peeling.


So it's basiclly a sealer that has great adhesion with elongation characteristics.


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## ewingpainting.net

DAM specs says apply at 30 mills, coverage 50-200 sqft


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## Tonyg

ewingpainting.net said:


> DAM specs says apply at 30 mills, coverage 50-200 sqft


 
It can go on thick but I figure for simple priming/spot priming I am brushing closer to the minimum so I figure I'll get about 200sf or so. Cost is a factor but for exterior trim I figure $20-$30 a job will produce better/longer lasting results. Besides, the model I sell is a 'Great job' at a little higher price rather than a " 'good' job at a reasonable price "

I also like the fact it dries fast and can be painted within the hour  

I am a little nervous about not using an oil for new wood but - it is spec'd for it. Just not sure yet thus the original post.


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## DeanV

Actually from the data page in the text portion,

"Now Peel Bond can be applied 33% Thicker.
Apply up to 40 mils wet without running or
sagging. For even better sealing and filling !"


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## ewingpainting.net

DeanV said:


> Actually from the data page in the text portion,
> 
> "Now Peel Bond can be applied 33% Thicker.
> Apply up to 40 mils wet without running or
> sagging. For even better sealing and filling !"


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## ewingpainting.net

I guess i see why allot of painters use it :whistling2:


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## DeanV

I have never applied it that thick, but we always brush or roll it on. I can only imagine what a sprayer could with it.


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## NEPS.US

I don't use it as a everyday primer. Mostly for serious problem areas, filling or bonding issues. I prefer a nice slow dry oil for wood priming.


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## NEPS.US

plainpainter said:


> I wouldn't trust my business to XIM - their products have gone to hell in a handbasket the last few years. I've had massive failures with XIM. Initially on certain projects these primers made me think that oil was gone, gone, gone. Now I am at the point where if a house is prone to re-peeling in as little as a year - then maybe folks should think about getting their home re-sided. Providing solutions to 'problem' areas and/or surfaces seems to be as effect as shoveling chit against the tide. I've gone back to 'spot' priming with an oil - and it doesn't have to be a great 'long' oil primer as well. Everything fails it seems. Maybe we should all just think about providing a 'good' job at a reasonable price and do severe time management on projects. You can prep some of these homes forever, and they'll still peel the very next year no matter what you do.


 


Why bother anymore? Seriously.


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## ewingpainting.net

NEPS.US said:


> I don't use it as a everyday primer. Mostly for serious problem areas, filling or bonding issues. I prefer a nice slow dry oil for wood priming.


Looks to me that's what it's designed for. Another product that should not be applied if you don't know what the purpose of it is. To use it as a everyday primer :no:


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## RCP

I was looking into it for a recent job and found this, the video shows spraying, and talks about using as a sealer. I'm sure some of you have seen it.
http://www.peelbond.com/video.asp?vid=4


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## Tonyg

ewingpainting.net said:


> Another product that should not be applied if you don't know what the purpose of it is. To use it as a everyday primer :no:


Well I was hoping to get some opinions of folks that are familiar with the product and have used it. 

*"penetrating, bonding primer/sealer. It is formulated to bond-to and seal a wide range of construction materials"​ 
"Peel Bond is an ideal prime coat for wood, plywood, hardboard and T1-11
siding, as well as other architectural construction materials including: stucco, brick, aluminum, galvanized metal, fiberglass, PVC plastic and PVC siding, and previously painted surfaces"​* 
*http://ximproducts.com/upload/pdfs/Peel%20Bond%20Data%20Sheet%201146%202%2015%202010.pdf*


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## Tonyg

NEPS.US said:


> I don't use it as a everyday primer. Mostly for serious problem areas, filling or bonding issues. I prefer a nice slow dry oil for wood priming.


I've used it for the bonding , filling, and encapsulating properties as well but after using it more frequently for some spot priming recently I have begun to think it may be best used as my primary primer.

I've always preferred using oil for new wood, latex primer most often for spot priming , and products such as the Peel Bond for special purpose. But, if it is that good and penetrating, do you think it would work better than oil for new or bare wood?


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## DeanV

Last year I did some deck railings (top face of railing only). Did some with PeelBond, some with oil primer. Some half and half. My plan is to go back and see if one did better than the other. On applications like that, traditional exterior oil primers do not seem to last great. We have used it on paneled garage doors that have traditionally had peeling problems. On T-111 if there are areas that are flaking.

Now, we only started using it much last year. So, I will have to see how it does in the future.

Now, for new, never coated wood, I still use oil for the first coat.


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## NEPS.US

I think many "hope" it will become a MIRACLE product to save a step of prep work. The substrate still needs to be prepped the same. 

I havent even thought of using it for new wood. Any priming I do on new wood is usually a full coat of oil or just priming but ends of boards.


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## Metro M & L

I've been using more and more peel bond. Did a couple fresh railings in it yesterday. We'll see what they look like next year. Works wonders on cedar shake. Works wonders on dried out cracking wood- spray and back brush and it fills better than caulk.


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## ewingpainting.net

Just curious, but why would you use it on railing. Are you using as a filler? I'm not getting why you would need it for such a thing. What are you guys like's about peel bond?


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## TJ Paint

i think what people are attracted to is the versatility. It bonds well, and it has good build if you wanna fill in where there's different thickness on the substrate, say where paint has peeled off. I believe they say it works on chalky surfaces as well. And supposedly they have a tannin bleed additive that will inhibit that issue for a waterborne primer. 

It seems like Xim markets it, in part, as a product that will cut down prep time on many kinds of ext repaints. The reasoning is, you won't need to sand smooth areas where there's been peeling because you can just fill in this area instead. 

The only thing is, from what I understand, is that if you want to do a heavy fill it must be on a second application after you have done the initial application for sealing, which to me, doesn't feel like saving a whole bunch of time. But, on many areas, it could still be a tool for a slight increase in profit, by decreasing some substantial labor time.


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## DeanV

For me, I tried it on railings hoping the hi-build would help.them last longer and not peel. Having snow sit on railings for 3 months is not helpful for long term durability.


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## plainpainter

DeanV said:


> What failures did you see? How did you use it? Based on your posts here, I cannot see you using it over loose paint without proper scraping first. If you could be more specific about the condition is failed under, I would appreciate it since I have been relying on PeelBond more the last year and this year.


I've used it on trim - like that new finger jointed wood that was previously painted. Pressure washed, scraped of any loose paint - but figured a 100% coating of this over the whole trim boards would make for better longevity on this new dimensionally unstable finger jointed boards. Then I put my topcoat over it. It's cracking and flaking up a storm on these fascia trim boards 4 years later. Where as the original coat of paint, Pratt&lambert Redseal, was on the wood for 7 years and looked perfect before I prepped them for a repaint in '06. 

I've also pressure washed a buddy of mine shop - where he had new doors/frames, windows installed and never painted them for the 5 years - just let them sit with their factory primer. I pressure washed them - removed all the loose primer and recoated with Maddog. It's bubbling off in sheets now! If anything these products may be ok for older wood - but they also enhance the ability of a thick 'plaque' of paint to let go from the substrate. These primers may be ok for 'filling' purposes, but I don't believe they offer any better longevity than normal primers. In severe cases where the surface is really irregular {like aged T-111} - these primers have a better ability to flex with the original surface - where as traditional oil primers need the surface to be flat.


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## Tonyg

I like the idea of essentially working with a new substrate by priming. The Peel Bond IMO is designed to bond to the substrate which should stabilize the existing coating. I tend to see many homes not painted for 7-8 yrs and then with cheap paint that has oxidized heavily. After cleaning and sanding (and I also include a second wash after prep) the Peel Bond on the heavier oxidized areas, in combination with the self priming properties of the Aura, should offer a superior finished product.

After reading the comments, and my own concerns on using it for new wood, I don't feel comfortable using a waterborne product over an alkyd. I think I will still with the oil for new wood but will begin to use the Peel Bond much more broadly.


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## RCP

Looks like there are some new products?

Peelbond


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## Woody

I like getting High on oil base paint.... Primer phase is exellent... "It sure beats getting out of the car, at a gas station.."


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## ewingpainting.net

RCP said:


> Looks like there are some new products?
> 
> Peelbond


I hope the handyman industry doesn't get their hands on this stuff. 
Why would you need that much build up? Then if you were to put elasto on top, you'd be looking about 60 mills.


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## johnpaint

ewingpainting.net said:


> I hope the handyman industry doesn't get their hands on this stuff.
> Why would you need that much build up? Then if you were to put elasto on top, you'd be looking about 60 mills.


I think you are right on that if used wrong it could be not so good, like Chris said you need to still smooth out the area you are working on, if not I could see how things could turn out worse in the long run. Kind of like self leveling concrete, lol


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## TJ Paint

johnpaint said:


> I think you are right on that if used wrong it could be not so good, like Chris said you need to still smooth out the area you are working on, if not I could see how things could turn out worse in the long run. Kind of like self leveling concrete, lol


but this is how they market peel bond! They say buy this and use it instead where you have a bunch of sanding to do and save time and eliminate the sanding smooth step.


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## ewingpainting.net

TJ Paint said:


> but this is how they market peel bond! They say buy this and use it instead where you have a bunch of sanding to do and save time and eliminate the sanding smooth step.


Ha Ha,
handymen with great stuff 








I'd hate to see what they can do with peelbond


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## johnpaint

spray foam and the homeowners don't mix, but they like it because it's fun to use, kind of like those black snakes your kids get on the 4th of July, you light one end and they keep growing.


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## LOSTinDETAILS

IMO the price of the stuff will limit its use as a everyday primer. Why pay 40 when you can pay 20 and achieve the same results. For certain applications it is worth the price just not on a daily basis.


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