# what's your process



## skinne9 (Nov 21, 2009)

So I have an exterior cedar siding restain bid on Saturday. I don't do a lot of exteriors but it's a referral so my ? Is what your typical prep for this? I'll have pics on Saturday.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Depends on the prep needed. Wash, prep, mask, spray and back brush, unmask, do any touch ups and brush work, clean up, collect check


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## skinne9 (Nov 21, 2009)

In the past I would wash with tsp, pressure wash, caulk if necessary, mask and drop of any areas needed, spray , clean up. Double check and touch up. I have reading a lot of threads lately and it seems I should of been sanding everthing after pressure washing and rinsing after that.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Just dust broom it and go.


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## Lazerline (Mar 26, 2012)

TJ Paint said:


> Just dust broom it and go.


I agree. If you get an area fuzzed up real good you can run a wire brush over it but other than that I'd go with what TJ says


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## skinne9 (Nov 21, 2009)

TJ Paint said:


> Just dust broom it and go.


Your not even pressure washing


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

skinne9 said:


> Your not even pressure washing


Save time


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## skinne9 (Nov 21, 2009)

Ok what if you are not worried about time?


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

It depends on the present condition of the siding and the nature of the current finish. If it's ST stain and there are substantial areas with weathered/darkened siding, we clean and bleach it all, then let it dry thoroughly before applying the new stain. If it's solid-color stain in good condition, we wash it down, let it dry, and re-coat.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

All paints have a basic manufacturer surface preparation recommendation that usually includes a clean and dry surface. Clean can be interpretive, but dry can be measured more accurately with the aide of a moisture meter. The affects of a substrate's porosity, or lack there of, will usually be addressed in the coating manufacturers technical data sheet as well.

Basic finish expectations are also described in most major coating manufacturers TDS. Obtaining a particular finish may include preparation beyond what the manufacturer suggested, like power washing or extra sanding. Particularly, if the substrate is in an advanced stage of wear or neglect. This could be considered the "variables". 

Note: It is the variables that prevent a painting service from successfully operating like a McDonalds.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

If its smooth cut cedar in bad shape, I would sand it. 
Cedar is so soft, it sands super easy. Especially if its weathered at all. 

I have sanded a few rough cut cedar houses that were in real bad shape.. Didn't sand all the way to smooth, but just knocked the top layer of deteriorated stuff off. 

I went by a rough cedar house that I did with my Dad several years ago. I think it was 04, right before he retired. 
I was just getting into sanding siding with an orbital, and this was actually the first whole house that I sanded. 

It was in real bad shape, and the customer wanted semi-solid.. After sanding a test area and seeing the difference, I talked the customer into doing a full sand as an extra. The other guys on the crew thought it was nuts,,, sanding rough lumber. But it made a huge difference in the finished look, and the lifespan of the stain. 

It should have been re stained way before now. The top layers are deteriorated again. But I am impressed by how well the semi-solid did over that long a time. 

If I re-do it, I would probably sand it again.


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## skinne9 (Nov 21, 2009)

I appreciate the information. I will have pics and more info Saturday.


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## SeattleHomeServices (Sep 20, 2012)

Jmayspaint said:


> If its smooth cut cedar in bad shape, I would sand it.
> Cedar is so soft, it sands super easy. Especially if its weathered at all.
> 
> I have sanded a few rough cut cedar houses that were in real bad shape.. Didn't sand all the way to smooth, but just knocked the top layer of deteriorated stuff off.
> ...


What kind of sander are you using? I use a festool rotex for 99% of what I do and a porter cable random DA for the rest. The festool is great because it hooks to a vac (clean) and with varying grits could turn rough sawn siding into a bar top.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Pressure wash using different chems depending on how opaque stain will be. Semi trans needs more cleaning / brightening. Solid is more forgiving. Use a siding wash or bleach and detergent. Need to remove mildew, deteriorated wood fibers, stains etc.


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## Lazerline (Mar 26, 2012)

skinne9 said:


> Your not even pressure washing


Sorry, I meant to suggest this after a pressure wash. I always wash before stain


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

SeattleHomeServices said:


> What kind of sander are you using? I use a festool rotex for 99% of what I do and a porter cable random DA for the rest. The festool is great because it hooks to a vac (clean) and with varying grits could turn rough sawn siding into a bar top.


 I'm still rockin a red neck dustless system with Dewalts and shop vacs. Not in the same league as a festool set up, but it works well. 

I use a regular adjustable speed orbital, and a Dewalt disc sander with shroud when I need to get aggressive. 

The dust collection with the orbital is near perfect. Not so much with the disc sander, unless I turn the speed way down and go slow.


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## skinne9 (Nov 21, 2009)

SeattleHomeServices said:


> What kind of sander are you using? I use a festool rotex for 99% of what I do and a porter cable random DA for the rest. The festool is great because it hooks to a vac (clean) and with varying grits could turn rough sawn siding into a bar top.


Those things are pricey. But I'm guessing I need somthing better than my $70 orbital. And do you want something to vacuum the dust so it doesn't make a mess when it falls, or so you don't have to rinse it again.


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## skinne9 (Nov 21, 2009)

I mean palm disc sander


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## skinne9 (Nov 21, 2009)

Ok here are some pics. HO said it's been 4 or five years since last painted. Hired the college painting outfit. Said they used emerald so I'm guessing it's not a stain (don't use SW much anymore.)


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## skinne9 (Nov 21, 2009)




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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

skinne9 said:


> Ok here are some pics. HO said it's been 4 or five years since last painted. Hired the college painting outfit. Said they used emerald so I'm guessing it's not a stain (don't use SW much anymore.)


Emerald is a SW exterior paint that came out in 2012, so I would doubt it.


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## skinne9 (Nov 21, 2009)

RCP said:


> Emerald is a SW exterior paint that came out in 2012, so I would doubt it.


 But I'm not crazy it is paint not stain ?


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

skinne9 said:


> But I'm not crazy it is paint not stain ?


Yes, it is paint


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

skinne9 said:


> But I'm not crazy it is paint not stain ?


While I've seen some nasty-looking peeling with solid-color stains, I haven't seen peeling that bad with anything but paint. A paint job that looks like that after 4-5 years? Another ringing endorsement for University Amateur and their "anyone can paint" model.


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## Painter-Aaron (Jan 17, 2013)

Gough said:


> While I've seen some nasty-looking peeling with solid-color stains, I haven't seen peeling that bad with anything but paint. A paint job that looks like that after 4-5 years? Another ringing endorsement for University Amateur and their "anyone can paint" model.


I just moved into a house and the deck is peeling super bad. I looked into the garage where there was the previous can of "super deck solid stain from general paint. The date said 2011.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Painter-Aaron said:


> I just moved into a house and the deck is peeling super bad. I looked into the garage where there was the previous can of "super deck solid stain from general paint. The date said 2011.


OK, I will make an exception for decks.

PS That's what we call "job security"....


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## skinne9 (Nov 21, 2009)

Gough said:


> While I've seen some nasty-looking peeling with solid-color stains, I haven't seen peeling that bad with anything but paint. A paint job that looks like that after 4-5 years? Another ringing endorsement for University Amateur and their "anyone can paint" model.


the house is only peeling bad where threre is no shade. So to my original ? what would your steps in order be. This is what I'm thinking ; wash with tsp,2 pressure wash,3 scrape any other loose paint off,4 sand entire sections or sides of the house that where peeling bad: top to bottom, sections or sides that are not peeling i won't sand. 5,rinse with water,7 caulk,8,Prime entire sides that where sanded and spot prime where it wasn't. Mask and cover for spray, spray, touch up , done.


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## skinne9 (Nov 21, 2009)

skinne9 said:


> the house is only peeling bad where threre is no shade. So to my original ? what would your steps in order be. This is what I'm thinking ; wash with tsp,2 pressure wash,3 scrape any other loose paint off,4 sand entire sections or sides of the house that where peeling bad: top to bottom, sections or sides that are not peeling i won't sand. 5,rinse with water,7 caulk,8,Prime entire sides that where sanded and spot prime where it wasn't. Mask and cover for spray, spray, touch up , done.


I want to make sure this will last them 10-15 years so I appreciate any advice to ensure that should happen. I'm thinking acri-sheild or permanizer from ppg.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Personally, I have never thought rinsing with water was the ideal way to remove sanding dust. I use a blower and a broom, or a vacume. It just seems easier to me to remove the dust dry, as opposed to wet. An added bonus is that you don't have to get the wood wet a second time. After scrape and sand, another wet/dry cycle, and sitting for days to dry, can loosen paint that wasn't loose before.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

skinne9 said:


> the house is only peeling bad where threre is no shade. So to my original ? what would your steps in order be. This is what I'm thinking ; wash with tsp,2 pressure wash,3 scrape any other loose paint off,4 sand entire sections or sides of the house that where peeling bad: top to bottom, sections or sides that are not peeling i won't sand. 5,rinse with water,7 caulk,8,Prime entire sides that where sanded and spot prime where it wasn't. Mask and cover for spray, spray, touch up , done.


I'd suggest switching nos. 7 & 8. I was taught to caulk after painting, but that could just have been the personal preference of the guy who taught me.

If your sanding leaves shiny nail heads, I'd spot prime those with an oil-based primer, although, if the siding is cedar, you may want to use a long-oil primer anyway. Nearly all of the wood siding around here is cedar and we have yet to find a water-based primer that stops tannin bleed 100%


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

So how do you paint a house?


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

TJ Paint said:


> So how do you paint a house?


I have a team of elephants I lease from the zoo. Those elephants sure love to paint, they have an incredible reach to boot.


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## skinne9 (Nov 21, 2009)

Rbriggs82 said:


> I have a team of elephants I lease from the zoo. Those elephants sure love to paint, they have an incredible reach to boot.


Your profits must be awesome paying your employees peanuts


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## simplycovered (Jul 12, 2013)

they must have used a water based stain without pre-priming , I would'nt think that approach would be one to repeat, That a huge house to redo every five years, ought to last ten , I'd aim for a seal and coat with a eggshell enamel,, but that sun will catch up to you anyhow, I'm curious to see how long factory prepainted will last. Sand the whole house? an eternity


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## skinne9 (Nov 21, 2009)

simplycovered said:


> they must have used a water based stain without pre-priming , I would'nt think that approach would be one to repeat, That a huge house to redo every five years, ought to last ten , I'd aim for a seal and coat with a eggshell enamel,, but that sun will catch up to you anyhow, I'm curious to see how long factory prepainted will last. Sand the whole house? an eternity


I don't think that it's stain , maybe it was when the house was built in the 80's. I have never seen stain that color before. They want it the same color so I plan on going with ppg permanizer


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## skinne9 (Nov 21, 2009)

Priming the entire sides sanded and spot prime the rest.


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## Moonstruck (Jul 31, 2013)

Two coats of Permanizer should work well, and it will block any tannin bleed. It really doesn't matter whether the house currently has a solid-color stain or a paint on it, the prep work basically is going to be the same. Just make sure that the old coating is not chalky. If it is, then you'll have to remove the chalkiness.

Other random thoughts...

Since mold and mildew are such a problem in this area, I try to avoid using TSP to wash exteriors unless the old coating is really chalky. I think a lot of people don't realize how difficult it is to rinse TSP off. And when you don't rinse it off thoroughly, it's like putting mold and mildew on steroids. If an exterior needs cleaning with anything more than a lightweight house wash, I usually hit it with Mildew Check or something similar.

Always prime before you caulk. Then, when the caulk sets up, spot prime it.


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## SeattleHomeServices (Sep 20, 2012)

skinne9 said:


> Those things are pricey. But I'm guessing I need somthing better than my $70 orbital. And do you want something to vacuum the dust so it doesn't make a mess when it falls, or so you don't have to rinse it again.


The vacs are good but not that good. You'll still need to vac the entire house to remov dust from the substrate before painting...or wash it. The biggest thing is that there won't be any airborne dust particles floating around. 

While the setup is $1100 new you can cry once and then enjoy using a quality tool thereafter. I think their biggest benefit besides ergonomics and engineering is the suction force of the vac an the fact that its heppa rated. 

Maybe you could get the same results with a dewalt sander and a big-ass shop vac maybe not i haven't tried. I do know that when I'm sanding finishes with copper, zinc and lead in them Festool or Fein vacs are all any yard will allow.


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