# 046 Fresh Start for Cabinets?



## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Is this a great primer for lacquered cabinets? They'll be finished with Advance oc-17.
My goto product is not available anymore.


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## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

Its a good primer but doesn't always block tannins. Also if the surface is really slick it wont bond so make sure to sand well but that opens up chance of tannins


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## Danahy (Dec 11, 2008)

Stix and keep a rattle can of BIN incase you get a couple of bleed spots.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Stix and Advance work really well together. Or just shoot the all in white shellac.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

I wouldn't trust Fresh Start as a bonding primer. My first choice if your spraying would be Bin. It sticks great, will seal all but the toughest of tannin bleed through and drys fast. Heck, it drys so fast most of the time I'll prime it twice and get a solid white base for the topcoat.


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## Gotdibz (Sep 30, 2010)

I would go with BM Fresh start Enamel Underbody Primer (217)

Oil base primer, sands to fine dust after it properly dries.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

I'm using Fresh start acrylic as a primer for Advance over old semi gloss oil on a job now. It seems to bonding well, passes the scratch test after overnight dry. 

That's what BM recommended to go under the Advance for this. Either that or completely degloss and skip the primer. I was a little surprised they didn't recommend the Advance primer or the oil, but 046 it was. Working for me.


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## Gotdibz (Sep 30, 2010)

Jmayspaint said:


> I'm using Fresh start acrylic as a primer for Advance over old semi gloss oil on a job now. It seems to bonding well, passes the scratch test after overnight dry.
> 
> That's what BM recommended to go under the Advance for this. Either that or completely degloss and skip the primer. I was a little surprised they didn't recommend the Advance primer or the oil, but 046 it was. Working for me.



The fresh start 046 grabs really good. I use it when I have to switch from Oil to latex on Trim and doors. I scuff sand then apply 046 on top of oil and works great!.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Danahy said:


> Stix and keep a rattle can of BIN incase you get a couple of bleed spots.



Just depends on how much of the finish you sand through. I did a thorough sanding , primed with Stix and there was so much bleed I had to prime all again with Bin. 
I would trust 046 to block stsins better than Stix, especially with two coats 046, with dry time between coats. 
That's the nice thing about bin, minimal down time between coats and perfect stain blocking. I have had issues of Bin and Oil satin impervo chipping somewhat easily off previously stained cabinets. 



Sent from my blah blah blah


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## Danahy (Dec 11, 2008)

Damon T said:


> Just depends on how much of the finish you sand through. I did a thorough sanding , primed with Stix and there was so much bleed I had to prime all again with Bin. I would trust 046 to block stsins better than Stix, especially with two coats 046, with dry time between coats. That's the nice thing about bin, minimal down time between coats and perfect stain blocking. I have had issues of Bin and Oil satin impervo chipping somewhat easily off previously stained cabinets. Sent from my blah blah blah


Very true. 
Knowing how far to sand is definitely a lesson learnt best the hard way. When the situation calls for it with excessive bleeding. I'll do a complete coat of bin as my second prime. I just find Stix as my first coat (sprayed onsite) gives me piece of mind for adhesion. Until the powers that be grant us with a awesome WB BIN substitute I'm trying to limit my exposure to an as needed basis. Last year I used BIN exclusively to prime cabinets nearly once a week and my body/lungs felt like they aged 5 years.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Yeah I wasn't happy with the sanding on the WB bin. 


Sent from my blah blah blah


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## paintball head (Mar 3, 2012)

Danahy said:


> Very true.
> Knowing how far to sand is definitely a lesson learnt best the hard way. When the situation calls for it with excessive bleeding. I'll do a complete coat of bin as my second prime. I just find Stix as my first coat (sprayed onsite) gives me piece of mind for adhesion. Until the powers that be grant us with a awesome WB BIN substitute I'm trying to limit my exposure to an as needed basis. Last year I used BIN exclusively to prime cabinets nearly once a week and* my body/lungs felt like they aged 5 years.*


Even when using a respirator ?


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## Danahy (Dec 11, 2008)

paintball head said:


> Even when using a respirator ?


Yes a 3m half mask. Change filters often and cartridges about once a month. 

I can still use it, and the smell doesn't bug me. I was just feeling physically drained out from the daily exposure for so long. 

The good news is... Since limiting my exposure to just using as needed I feel 100% better.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

Damon T said:


> Yeah I wasn't happy with the sanding on the WB bin.
> 
> 
> Sent from my blah blah blah


It didn't work for me either, blocked up and rolled around surface with every pass sanding. It was well cured too. I may have wet sanded some. Ended up putting so many coats of primer on initial slight orange peel got smoothed out.
. I think the vapors were quite potent even being wb. It ate through my respirator cartridges fast and I had strong ventilation but small work space.

Danahy, that's crazy to go a month with same cartidges especially with shellac, even with good ventilation. But that's up to you.


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## dillingerpaint (Sep 19, 2013)

I know this wasn't a question, but i thought i'd put my 2 cents in as well. I agree that BIN is the best primer for cabinets that i've used. I also like to use PPG BREAKTHROUGH on my cabinets. It has a very hard tack resistant finish. Sprays great but tough to brush since it dries so fast. But, if you just go and sand out imperfections and drags between coats it leaves a great finish. I've not used the advance by BM yet.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

dillingerpaint said:


> I know this wasn't a question, but i thought i'd put my 2 cents in as well. I agree that BIN is the best primer for cabinets that i've used. I also like to use PPG BREAKTHROUGH on my cabinets. It has a very hard tack resistant finish. Sprays great but tough to brush since it dries so fast. But, if you just go and sand out imperfections and drags between coats it leaves a great finish. I've not used the advance by BM yet.


Advance is awesome.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Thanks for the input y'all.
After reading the TDS on 046 theres no way I would use it as a primer for cabinets. I would like to try the stix, it looks like a good choice. 
My favorite is Kel-Bond, Adhesion Plus from Kelly Moore. I understand its made by XIM and re-badged for Kelly Moore. I'm gonna stick with it for now.
http://www.kellymoore.com/docs/defa...heets/287-TDS-1113.pdf?Status=Master&sfvrsn=0

I'll try and post pics:thumbsup:


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Bender what was it about the 046 tds that made you think it's not for cabinets? Just curious. 



Sent from my iPad using PaintTalk.com


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

It looks like its a 100% acrylic. Sounds like a good 'universal' primer. The others are urethane/acrylic (uma?) As I understand it the UMA's are more tenacious.

file:///home/chronos/u-472eb6bf358567989e1c10d39377ae109ec43d89/Downloads/20130125_046_TDS_US_OKF.pdf


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Jmayspaint said:


> I'm using Fresh start acrylic as a primer for Advance over old semi gloss oil on a job now. It seems to bonding well, passes the scratch test after overnight dry.
> 
> That's what BM recommended to go under the Advance for this. Either that or completely degloss and skip the primer. I was a little surprised they didn't recommend the Advance primer or the oil, but 046 it was. Working for me.



Not that it matters to the OP but just for the sake of accuracy, I misspoke earlier. The primer that was recommended to me for going over semi gloss oil is the Fresh Start N023 not 046. It is working well.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

046 will be fine. I've used it between lacquer, alkyd, bare wood and advanced several times on cabinets without any problem. It adheres great, builds and levels nicely, and blocks most stains in its dry film. It will also sand, give enough time to dry. Doesn't sand like an oil though. The key is doing most of the sanding/filling/prep before priming with 046.


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