# Apt Bldg Exterior



## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

Hey Guys,
Gonna be starting this one Monday. Be working by myself for most of it, hopefully be able to steal a guy from the other crews when I can. Ill be working off a 60' Genie, three sides of the building are mostly dirt and one side the parking lot. No landscaping in yet. Gotta mask windows, doors, soffits, and a/c units. The siding is pre primed LP Smartside I think. 6 diff colors on this one. 2 coats A-100 Latex. Its about 200 feet long by 60 wide, and 20 feet up to the soffit.

First, how many hours would you give your guys to get it done, just the painting part, not counting washing/prep.

Second, how many hours should I shoot for? Winner gets a virtual pat on the back! Now keep in mind I haven't worked all winter so its gonna take me a few days to get in shape.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

That's a big one to be tackling by yourself. 

Us we would have 3 of us on there with both sprayers going, Big sprayer and 2 people on what ever color is used the most, smaller sprayer set up on a different color. 3rd sprayer again different color.

Hours wise at this moment I'm wiped out from estimating so just a guess I would say 200-250 man hrs with 3 of us.

A crap load more for 1 person.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

There's a lot of stuff going on there and a lot of stuff you can't see. Too much. I want to take some highlighter pens and color it in. Each color gets a pen. So I know what I'm looking at, without the confusion. No more thinking. Then start putting the puzzle together. Biggest color first, 2nd biggest so on. Get all the sq ft in and button up the peices connecting them. 

How many days?
I dunno. How much did you get for it? Lol 
I think you count up ur square footage, linear footage, units and so on, make ur budget from that number. But what do I know?
Maybe a week working on it. I'd have a idea of time. But just from the elevation and not marked up. I wouldn't venture a guess.

Nice gig, nice to see you back at it. Enjoy.


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## Gracobucks (May 29, 2011)

My guess would be 10 days for 2 guys. Doing it by yourself may take a little longer so I'll say 180 hours its going to take you.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

cdpainting said:


> That's a big one to be tackling by yourself. Us we would have 3 of us on there with both sprayers going, Big sprayer and 2 people on what ever color is used the most, smaller sprayer set up on a different color. 3rd sprayer again different color. Hours wise at this moment I'm wiped out from estimating so just a guess I would say 200-250 man hrs with 3 of us. A crap load more for 1 person.


Naah. One person is a much more efficient. In the short run and the long run. All kinds of reasons. Not the least of which. You load the job up, get down too fast, you'll keep getting called back for crap. And not the least of which. Three guys can man three jobs at the same time. By themself. It rains or somebody gets caught up. Move em around. Big shops. That's the way they hold down the work. One guy per job. Move em around. It flows. Overload jobs constantly. Catch up too fast. And you gotta stress for no reason. Messes up the flow.


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

Oden said:


> Naah. One person is a much more efficient. In the short run and the long run. All kinds of reasons. Not the least of which. You load the job up, get down too fast, you'll keep getting called back for crap. And not the least of which. Three guys can man three jobs at the same time. By themself. It rains or somebody gets caught up. Move em around. Big shops. That's the way they hold down the work. One guy per job. Move em around. It flows. Overload jobs constantly. Catch up too fast. And you gotta stress for no reason. Messes up the flow.


This is the model that has work for my dad for almost 50 years of commercial. It's more like 1-2 guys at several small jobs and 1 or 2 big jobs always going. Shuffle them around as needed. Builders always happy. Guys are always getting their 40+ a week.


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

My only question is what do you need the lift for? I guess maybe it would speed up the masking, but I'm spraying that off of a 6 or 8 foot ladder and using the Hyde RVT setup.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

10ish days 13 if you add masking


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## Gracobucks (May 29, 2011)

journeymanPainter said:


> 10ish days 13 if you add masking


13 days with one guy?


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

Gracobucks said:


> 13 days with one guy?


Your right, I guess longer because I'd have to make an extra trip for the trim. I'm used to using 3+ colours out of a basket


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

Yeah, now that I look a lot closer I'm in the mid to high 20's


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## Gracobucks (May 29, 2011)

Guess we'll just have to wait and see how long it real takes him. Could be one of those jobs that looks like lots of work and turns out not to be or vise versa.


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

Just went for a look-see today. No wonder the caulkers arent done... theyve been waiting for us to bring our lift so they dont have to climb a ladder. Ba$tard$!!!

Lifts r faster an safer than ladders imho... How would u mask soffit off ext ladder by doing it in 3ft sections and then move ladder? Seems like that would suck!!

We dont play that game where u do everything off ladder jacks an extend-o-planks; everything is up to snuff osha wise. Tie off always, boss included.

Its like 30' on the gables.... how would u secure ur ladder?


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

bryceraisanen said:


> Just went for a look-see today. No wonder the caulkers arent done... theyve been waiting for us to bring our lift so they dont have to climb a ladder. Ba$tard$!!! Lifts r faster an safer than ladders imho... How would u mask soffit off ext ladder by doing it in 3ft sections and then move ladder? Seems like that would suck!! We dont play that game where u do everything off ladder jacks an extend-o-planks; everything is up to snuff osha wise. Tie off always, boss included. Its like 30' on the gables.... how would u secure ur ladder?


Funny the caulkers I see here mostly. They work off of light ladders. Almost always. That they would. And they are quick too I have to say. They work as a team. One guy runs the gun and the other follows and slicks. It's all they do so yeh they are quick, and a nice job they do also.

A no brainer for the painter to have a boom. There. Which is also why it's a no brainer to have a one guy there, unless you can commendere another boom from another trade. 

Painter contractors here. And my outfit for sure. We are notorious for getting by without our own booms/lifts. Muddies the water though. You got to make deals, use lifts that have been called off till they get picked up, switch lifts as one sits and so so wants his back. It's a hassle. So having ur own is primo.









My tip for newbies. You get a lift. Keep the key. Be around as long as me. And there is not a lift on any job you cannot commendere.....lol


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

Oden said:


> Funny the caulkers I see here mostly. They work off of light ladders. Almost always. That they would. And they are quick too I have to say. They work as a team. One guy runs the gun and the other follows and slicks. It's all they do so yeh they are quick, and a nice job they do also.
> 
> A no brainer for the painter to have a boom. There. Which is also why it's a no brainer to have a one guy there, unless you can commendere another boom from another trade.
> 
> ...


I have key ring that looks just like that. Starts any lift I come across.


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

PRC said:


> I have key ring that looks just like that. Starts any lift I come across.


Hehe me too!


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## lmcgrew79 (Jan 6, 2010)

Painting all the white trim around the windows as well? If so 480 man hrs.


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

Day 1. 3 guys 24 man hours. Got east end all sprayed and trim about 30% dun. Hurricane winds all day, 25mph steady gusting to 45mph. Now looks like rain rest of week...


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Hurricane winds.. Pfft thats a normal day for us on the beach.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

bryceraisanen said:


> Day 1. 3 guys 24 man hours. Got east end all sprayed and trim about 30% dun. Hurricane winds all day, 25mph steady gusting to 45mph. Now looks like rain rest of week...


Then anout 30 man days?
Or so
CD was just about right


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

Oden said:


> Then anout 30 man days?
> Or so
> CD was just about right


Yeah roughly. Office gave me 200 hours. Ill accomplish that by sticking to 1-2 guys and limbering up a bit; was a long winter. The 3rd guy didnt have much to do so will try to avoid that.


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

Oden said:


> Then anout 30 man days?
> Or so
> CD was just about right


Yeah roughly. Office gave me 200 hours. Ill accomplish that by sticking to 1-2 guys and limbering up a bit; was a long winter. The 3rd guy didnt have much to do so will try to avoid that.


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

Jeesh. Been raining here more often than not. So far I have only gotten five days total onsite for a total of 64 man hours so far. Definitely working by myself is the most efficient, but I brought a helper Thursday and Friday so I could keep em busy. It worked out pretty dang good and we now have a large portion knocked out. Actually we have the east, north, and west sides completely done. All we have left is the south (entrance) side. So by the look of things, we should be done next week even though its a short week. Here somepics of what its shaping up like. All of the white trim, we rolled 2 full coats on Friday, and ended up getting off at only 2:30. We been cookin with gas lol.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

Nice to see something come out of the ground and get the whole body painted. Not much of that going around anymore. 
Somebody else got the inside? I guess. 
Paradigmz and Byce I think have the PT shops I relate best to. Seem like nice outfits to work for. Their guys make some money. They got big work. With a flow. The 'finding good employees' threads. I think it starts from there. It's not the labor pool so much as it gets slanted to be on here at times. It's management. The money is there on this kind of work. It has to be managed correctly, and all involved can still make a living doing it. 
Underman the jobs. Ur keepers will get them done. 
Pay em right and then they'll be stuck doing it for the rest of their working life. Haha lol


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

Lol good points! But NO Oden, we painted the inside last fall, but they didn't get the siding on until it started snowing so thats why we are doing the outside now.


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## wje (Apr 11, 2009)

bryceraisanen said:


> Lol good points! But NO Oden, we painted the inside last fall, but they didn't get the siding on until it started snowing so thats why we are doing the outside now.


Tell me you weren't able to bang the interior out in under 100 hrs.... Lol


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

wje said:


> Tell me you weren't able to bang the interior out in under 100 hrs.... Lol


We did Not do the inside in under 100. I dunno what it was but I would guess more around 600 with touch-up an everything. Gonna b interesting if I can do the outside in that. I'm guessing around 115 the front has a lot more detail work.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

bryceraisanen said:


> Lol good points! But NO Oden, we painted the inside last fall, but they didn't get the siding on until it started snowing so thats why we are doing the outside now.


And it's still not occupied? That place. They must be way way ahead of schedule or something, usually we finish like the day moving vans pull up.

I seen it so many times but it still amazes me. The landscaping work, one day it looks like in the pics, next day it's a finished product, looks like it's always been. Eeeh close to a one day anyhow. The landscaping is to the exterior what is the carpet to the interior. Finished product. I like.


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

This is out in farm country, not Minneapolis. They got 6 tenants so far which is decent considering the whole town is like 800 people. The ones in the metro, yeah I'm tripping over the movers an granny n gramps while I'm trying to get out the door.

Had a good day today. Masked and sprayed the entire front except for the 4 columns by entryway. 2 guys.

First pic 11 am. Just starting spraying.

Second pic 430 pm just finished spraying.


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## pvtgloss (May 25, 2015)

Good job!! But why the 60? Not really much keeping you away from the building? Now that I look at the last pics, the terrain does look kinda rough. Is it a articulating boom? Do you own the 60?


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

You can't see it, but I'm operating from the parking lot on this side of the building. No way to cross that sidewalk etc and the ground is rougher than it looks. Also, to a certain extent, having more reach is more efficient as you spend less time driving around and more time putting the paint on the wall. It wouldn't pay to go any MORE than 60 though, for this job. Then they start getting too awkward and not as precise, both maneuvering the basket as well as just driving it though the parking lot b/t hazard cones an such. I realize I don't have any pictures of the west side of the building, but I had to get a little "creative" to reach the gable from the parking lot.


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## pvtgloss (May 25, 2015)

bryceraisanen said:


> You can't see it, but I'm operating from the parking lot on this side of the building. No way to cross that sidewalk etc and the ground is rougher than it looks. Also, to a certain extent, having more reach is more efficient as you spend less time driving around and more time putting the paint on the wall. It wouldn't pay to go any MORE than 60 though, for this job. Then they start getting too awkward and not as precise, both maneuvering the basket as well as just driving it though the parking lot b/t hazard cones an such. I realize I don't have any pictures of the west side of the building, but I had to get a little "creative" to reach the gable from the parking lot.


I thought maybe you were up operating from the parking lot. It kinda looked like it from the parking lot in that last picture.good job man. Too bad the weather wasn't on your side. Very nice


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

Dun! Will get the hours report next Monday... Should b around 110-120


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

Job. Well. Done.

Look's great!


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

Finally. 112 hours of fun on this one.

Actually it might even be less than 100 because I spent a solid day an a half doing interior doors an frames that were leftover from last fall.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

bryceraisanen said:


> Yeah roughly. Office gave me 200 hours. Ill accomplish that by sticking to 1-2 guys and limbering up a bit; was a long winter. The 3rd guy didnt have much to do so will try to avoid that.





bryceraisanen said:


> Finally. 112 hours of fun on this one. Actually it might even be less than 100 because I spent a solid day an a half doing interior doors an frames that were leftover from last fall.


So 100 hours on the button?
Kinda suspicious Bryce?
I wished I got a hours budget. All I ever get is 'we r in the hole here' lol 
Knowing what I know now. I'd bring em right in on the minute too. The winners all they do is move the numbers to cover the losers anyhow. And thus, I'll never get a budget. Lol the boss needs the extra days to cover his but someplace else.

Keep the job pics and updates coming? Kool to watch a shop operate from afar. Nice shop IMO u got.


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

Oden said:


> So 100 hours on the button?
> Kinda suspicious Bryce?
> I wished I got a hours budget. All I ever get is 'we r in the hole here' lol
> Knowing what I know now. I'd bring em right in on the minute too. The winners all they do is move the numbers to cover the losers anyhow. And thus, I'll never get a budget. Lol the boss needs the extra days to cover his but someplace else.
> ...


Lol! I got a lot of skin in the game so hours budget or not I'm going balls to the walls!

The official number was 147 hours. However, that includes ALL of MY drive time (1.5 hrs each way) and 45 minutes paid drive time per day for apprentice (a dang good one). So that's 3.75 hours per day paid on the road. I think it was ten or eleven days (partials and rain) So at ten days, we can subtract 37.5 commuting hours from total. That puts us at 110. Take another day an a half (conservatively) for the inside work I did and we're at 100 that's as close as I can figure it. And NO we will NOT bid the next one at 100 so don't get ur shorts tight lol.

With the right/wrong combination of staff this job could easily go 300 hours lol.

Example: street facing side of building 

Day 1) worked by myself. Took a box of film paper an tape an maskers in lift. Masked soffit all the way across front and what was left of West side. Got a few windows masked. 8 hrs production

Day 2) brought apprentice. I masked top windows and he did bottom ones. Also put one wrap of 3" masking tape around a/c units cause they only poke outta building about 2" roughly. Had that done by morning break. I started spraying about 945 am. Now the apprentice is having to hustle, to get the last misc doors sprinklers entryway soffit etc masked off. Also he puts tarps etc on front concrete and tossed a couple runners on the entryway roof for me. By 1 pm had a coat on everything. 80 an sunny and breezy. Take lunch. After lunch spray (new 523) on another coat on everything while helper is working on entryway columns and rolling trim (with the EXACT right roller for the job) and front doorway etc. O yeah, the main body color was really light, almost off white. So the trim got its first coat with the sprayer while I's going by. 16 production hours

Day 3) both of us. Roll out rest of white trim. Two full coats where it was over sprayed with dark body paint. Now at this point in the game I'm kind of starting to bounce back and forth from working inside and working outside. A lot of it is just having the right tool for the job for example there's a one by 10 skirt board that runs around the entire building, to put a full coat on the front and the Westside took me probably about 15 minutes. That's about 300 feet and a entire gallon of A-100. Roll it right onto the drip edge which is white anyway. 10 production hours roughly?

Day 4) have apprentice do some minor touchup and unmask. 4 production hours.

So this south and west side was about 45‰ of the building or so, plus a lot more eye candy around the entryway. Took 38 hours by my best guess. The areas we did before this took a little longer cause we were "getting our system dynotuned". No bs, every square inch of the place got at least 2 full coats of paint. A lot of the trim got 3.

Now I've left out a few 'Nam tricks for obvious reasons, but that is the jist of how things went. And good thing it did, because the blasting I'm doing right now is already over budget. Last day on the nozzle today. Running late cause I had da go 80 miles the opposite way for more media.


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