# Solid Stain over Cedar Shakes



## The Lone Painter (Oct 3, 2010)

We're bidding a house that has cedar shake siding.

A lot of the current finish is in excellent shape, no major prep needed. We're planning to pressure wash and sand.

We're going to pressure wash, scrape and sand the rest, taking it down to the bare cedar shakes where it's needed.

Our paint supplier is saying that NO PRIMER IS NECESSARY, and to just use 2 coats of either ZAR or Sikkens solid stain (an acrylic/oil blend). They're a very reputable paint store and I'd like to go with their recommendation. We've also had very good results with both Sikkens and ZAR products.

My questions:

1) Will the solid stains perform well as a primer as far as adhesion goes?

2) Will they perform well as far as stopping any bleed-through from the cedar? I've seen absolutely no bleed-through up to this point.

It's a beautiful house and we want to do the job right, but obviously don't want to do anything unnecessary.

Sorry if this is a fairly basic question; I'm the guy on the crew who has been designated as "the paint guy." I try to do careful, quality work, but don't always know where to turn for technical advice.


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## Dunbar Painting (Mar 19, 2010)

Depends on the colour of the solid stain.

I had a house with shingles and they chose a light grey solid stain. I primed it first with the primer called "cover stain" and then stained it with the platinum solid stain.

I think if the colour is very very deep or dark, then it will not show bleed through.
That being said, priming it one coat can't hurt and gives added protection so why not upsell and do that?


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Your spec's are "good", priming would be "best". If it won't break the bank with the HO, I like to prime. Rather be safe than sorry....

And welcome to the site! Most here like it when you post an introduction here....... :thumbup:


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

some solid stains are "self priming", others are not.

I don't see the point of using a stain after priming. Might as well apply paint. It defeats the purpose of using stain if you prime it first.
The point of stain is to show the grain of the wood. If you prime, its going to seal the wood to the point where it makes applying stain after pointless.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

When in doubt, prime it.


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## The Lone Painter (Oct 3, 2010)

Thanks for all the advice so far, I really appreciate it.

The store also sells Cabots, which unlike ZAR and Sikkens recommends a prime coat before applying the finish coats. I could go that route... but it seems like there are some folks on this forum that are questioning the qualiity of Cabots...

Any further thoughts..?


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Being self-priming is not the same as being able to block tannin bleed.

Go to the manufactures website and pull up the TDS. If it says it is both self-priming AND blocks tannin bleed, then skip priming. If it does not say it is both, prime.

Or you can just roll the dice.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Sikkens does not recommend the use of primer under their coatings. Its actually doing the product a disservice by priming. The film is designed to breathe, priming would not allow the product the product to work the way it was intended.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

The Lone Painter said:


> We're bidding a house that has cedar shake siding.
> 
> A lot of the current finish is in excellent shape, no major prep needed. We're planning to pressure wash and sand.
> 
> ...


You mention that the shakes are currently in good shape, so what do they need as sanding? If there is gloss paint on them that needs deglossing, then there is no reason to stain. If the stain is in good condition, no need to sand.

I have not tried the stains you mention yet, but I have yet to find a waterborne stain of any kind the will hold back tannin bleed. The problem is also that tannin is water soluble, so if water is in the stain, it will cause the tannin to bleed immediately, even before the resin in the hybrid acrylic/oil stains may have a chance to block it.

I know some other painter that feel if you prim, there is no reason to stain, but I do not feel all primers fully fill and obscure the grain ruining the effect of the solid acrylic stains on rough cedar. Now, smooth wood, sure then I agree. But, oil primers do soak into rough cedar quite far. I like either the BM 094 or 366 primer on raw cedar.

If the shakes that are in great shape are not showing any bleeding now, no need to reprime them. Just topcoat if it is already stain on the shakes.


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## IHATE_HOMEDEPOT (May 27, 2008)

*Proceed with caution*

I just finished a cedar shake job that was spec'd out to be coated with BM's wb Arborcoat. We put on first coat with sprayer and back brushed, second mostly just sprayed and it is staining pretty bad really and it has not even seen rain yet. When I say staining I mean I can see the tannins coming through on whole shakes at a time. I am glad I did not contract this job (my buddy did) because there will most likely be heavy stains coming through after the winter and you know what that means.
If you search the threads here you will prob. find a story of a guy that over primed and had it pop off in huge sheets. From reading OP I gathered that the shakes are older so this might not be an issue because cedar definitely stops leaching stains after a couple of 3 or 5 years.
Also I noticed that Sikkens advises to rinse entire house with TSP and I did not but I could see how this might benefit especially new shakes. Bottom line trees do not want to be painted.


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