# clear over painted cabinets.



## dvp

i am repainting house and the homeowner wants a coat of clear over the finish coat of paint on the cabinets, to add depth. has anyone ever done this before? if so what is the best material to use? my sales rep suggesting acrylic poly.


----------



## TJ Paint

I've poly'd over an aquarium cabinet I painted for a CEO's office. The fish tank was too big to remove, so I had to do the work on site. I sprayed an oil poly. Define "best". I suppose an automotive clear would probably be the most durable. Just keep it simple, and do what your rep says, since you don't have any other ideas. This way you have documentation for an established product and spec procedure if anything the coating fails to cya.


----------



## jack pauhl

dvp said:


> i am repainting house and the homeowner wants a coat of clear over the finish coat of paint on the cabinets, to add depth. has anyone ever done this before? if so what is the best material to use? my sales rep suggesting acrylic poly.


Who's acrylic poly adds depth? Do you know what is on the cabinets now?


----------



## dvp

right now the cabinets are stain and lacquer-oak. as luck would have it i finished these cabinets originally 20 years ago for the builder. i have heard of this before, just never seen it done, as this is a small town in the middle of no where. my rep is good, but hes not a painter, hes a salesman. any input would be appreciated.


----------



## TJ Paint

its an extra step to poly them, I mean first you gotta prime and paint (2 coats) and the depth they want, that would require two coats of poly in my opinion. Do a gloss first and then a satin poly coat after.


----------



## Rcon

I'm not an expert on the WB clear finishes but if you've put an acrylic paint on the cabinets already then it would be easiest to stick with an acrylic topcoat. You could try CAB acrylic lacquer, or even a couple of coats of Varathane satin. Just make sure you scuff lightly with 400 or even scotchbrite between coats as acrylic clears are film forming and don't have the 'burn in' effect.


----------



## dvp

thanks for replies. i guess im trying acrylic pre-cat laquer, 2 coats over acrylic. never used it before. probably try it on 1 door first to see how it works. took reps recommendation to cma. got extra money, anyways.


----------



## Ranger72

The BM stays clear is a great product. It sprays nicely HVLP too with a 2.2 or 2.0 tip.


----------



## Retired

dvp said:


> thanks for replies. i guess im trying acrylic pre-cat laquer, 2 coats over acrylic. never used it before. probably try it on 1 door first to see how it works. took reps recommendation to cma. got extra money, anyways.


Prep those cabinets well. If you did them 20 years ago they are greasy inside and out. Acrylics dry fast and cure slowly. Even the acrylic pre-cat "lacquers". 

Not my job but you might try to sell this salesguy on prep and two coats of highgloss alkyd. The paint doesn't particularly have to be "house" paint either. 

A clear coat as a topcoat does add depth. To see what it will look like just hold a drinking glass or tumbler up against even a matte surface. If two coats are in the mix, coat #1 can be clear and coat #2 can be satin or whatever the paintmaker is calling a less than glossy material.


----------



## Last Craftsman

dvp said:


> i am repainting house and the homeowner wants a coat of clear over the finish coat of paint on the cabinets, to add depth. has anyone ever done this before? if so what is the best material to use? my sales rep suggesting acrylic poly.



Sounds like one of those situations where determining what constitutes a satisfactory outcome is subjective and nebulous.

Is the HO familiar with this look from having done it in the past?

Sometimes the homeowners want something and they don't even know exactly what it is they are searching for. And maybe they think this will give them the look they think they want, but they actually don't even know if it will.

Combine that with you never having done the procedure before, and that is a lot of room for a subjective outcome.

Often in this situation I try to impress upon the client the notion that even if the procedure is done perfectly, we wont know if we like the results until after the process is complete.

It would be ideal of the customer at least has an example that they are working with that gives them a reason to think that this procedure is what they want.

For example if they have friends who's cabinets they have seen and liked, and those friends told them that the cabinets had been painted "covered with a clear to add depth", then you are in the ballpark of being able to have some assurance ahead of time that the work you do is actually going to produce the results the customers have in their minds, etc.

Then you can do a little research on what the exact procedure was that was used on the cabinets that your customer has seen and liked, and you can start to have a very good chance of knowing before you even start the project that you can deliver what the customer wants.

And at the very least if you are operating from a specific example, and you do the work, and your work turns out like the target example everyone was using for a litmus, then you have done your job, even if the customer winds up not liking it. This would relieve a lot of stress from you and the customer to have a specific goal and target in mind.


----------



## MNpainter

dvp said:


> i am repainting house and the homeowner wants a coat of clear over the finish coat of paint on the cabinets, to add depth. has anyone ever done this before? if so what is the best material to use? my sales rep suggesting acrylic poly.


Did this once. We used a primer followed by 
bm flat oil. 2 coats. then top coated with an acrylic poly iirc 2 coats of the poly. looked good and held up well. good luck. steve


----------



## TDTD

Ranger72 said:


> The BM stays clear is a great product. It sprays nicely HVLP too with a 2.2 or 2.0 tip.


I used Stays Clear Satin over SW All Surface Enamel when I restored our kitchen table. Turned out great.:thumbup:


----------



## dvp

thanks again for all the replies. i am trying to duplicate cabinets her mom had done in san diego. i contacted the company that did her cabinets and they were kind enough to tell me what materials they used. that combined with the info i gained here and i feel confident in this. We dont have benjamin moore available here, but it must be really good product, because alot of recommendations on here. i enjoy painting and this will be an opportunity to try something new. i have heard of doing this before and it looks sharp from what i hear. good advice on prepping cabinets well, otherwise paint wont stick. our oil base here is junk and it yellows quickly, because the ca voc laws, i think. thanks again.
if it doesnt work well ill probably post for advice on how to strip cabinets quickly and in-expensively


----------



## Retired

Last Craftsman said:


> Sounds like one of those situations where determining what constitutes a satisfactory outcome is subjective and nebulous.
> 
> Is the HO familiar with this look from having done it in the past?
> 
> Sometimes the homeowners want something and they don't even know exactly what it is they are searching for. And maybe they think this will give them the look they think they want, but they actually don't even know if it will.
> 
> Combine that with you never having done the procedure before, and that is a lot of room for a subjective outcome.
> 
> Often in this situation I try to impress upon the client the notion that even if the procedure is done perfectly, we wont know if we like the results until after the process is complete.
> 
> It would be ideal of the customer at least has an example that they are working with that gives them a reason to think that this procedure is what they want.
> 
> For example if they have friends who's cabinets they have seen and liked, and those friends told them that the cabinets had been painted "covered with a clear to add depth", then you are in the ballpark of being able to have some assurance ahead of time that the work you do is actually going to produce the results the customers have in their minds, etc.
> 
> Then you can do a little research on what the exact procedure was that was used on the cabinets that your customer has seen and liked, and you can start to have a very good chance of knowing before you even start the project that you can deliver what the customer wants.
> 
> And at the very least if you are operating from a specific example, and you do the work, and your work turns out like the target example everyone was using for a litmus, then you have done your job, even if the customer winds up not liking it. This would relieve a lot of stress from you and the customer to have a specific goal and target in mind.


Sounds like all that hassle could lose the guy the job by introducing doubt and suggesting lack of skill and experience with an outcome that could be less than satisfactory. Seems like majority have applied a clearcoat over a less than wanted gloss level with good results. The car painters have been doing this for years and years with various clearcoats. 

Did some pieces for a streetfighter using a clearcoat over grey primer. The clearcoat had some flattner added to hold down the gloss. Basic deal? Know the material and their compatibilies and expand the range. Good for the old bank account.


----------



## Ranger72

Use Stix as a primer after de-greasing the cabinets. Then go ahead with your paint and poly. 

This is Stix:


----------



## Last Craftsman

Retired said:


> Sounds like all that hassle could lose the guy the job by introducing doubt and suggesting lack of skill and experience with an outcome that could be less than satisfactory.


Not necessarily. Depends on your delivery. Besides, the only doubt that would be introduced, is are they certain that what they are asking for, is going to give them the look they want?

If it turns out that my prompting was to result in my customer realizing that the procedure they were asking for was not going to result in what they had in their minds eye, wouldn't that be a good thing? I wouldn't _want_ them to pay me to do work that they realize was not what they wanted, only after seeing the finished result. 

-----------

Besides, I was mainly referring to the possibility that the customers did not know what their actual target was, but had maybe heard it somewhere, or had someone at a store suggest it or something.

As it turns out, it does not sound like that is the case. The situation fell under one of the possible categories I had envisioned which was that the customers actually knew from first hand experience that said procedure was what they wanted.

In that event my advice to the OP was that then the project sounds very doable with a little research on his part, and that it should be easy to ensure that the customers will be satisfied with the result.

-----------

I disagree about the notion such a dialogue makes it likely to lose the job, and or the importance of trying to retain the job in the event that the customers actually don't have a solid idea about what their target is.

To me the big picture is important. Doing what is in their best interest, even if it means "losing" as job, has more value in the big picture than the income from that one job.

Not to mention the likelihood that even if they decided an acrylic coat to "add depth" wasn't they wanted, that they would be paying me to finish the cabinets in a different manor. 6 of one, or a half a dozen of the other. Take your pick.

---------

But I have actually talked people out of doing certain jobs, because I could see in the big picture it was not going to make them happy, and that they really had no idea what they were getting into.

I have also had people practically beg me to do projects such as faux work because they were so thoroughly impressed with the work that I am experienced in, and I declined and passed them onto people who specialize in the field, because I believed it to be in their best interest.

I don't believe in just trying to secure any job, regardless of the situation.

My goal is to do what is in the customers best interest.

And a lot of times, the customers don't actually know what is in their best interest. And in my opinion the job of a professional is to know for them. That is really what they are paying for, is my knowledge and experience.

It is not uncommon for me to encounter situations where the customer has it their mind that they want a certain amount of work done, or specific projects.

And I look at what is proposed, and if something in my opinion really doesn't need to be painted, I will give them encouragement that I think it looks great, and perhaps they should take an extra vacation that year. Most times they still want to paint it, and I say I will gladly paint it, but I do think it looks good.

People really appreciate that. In the big picture, their appreciation and their certainty about our primary goal being to make them happy, and use our professional knowledge when consulting to help them prioritize, and allocate their budget in the most effective way, when referring us to other potential clients, is *far* more valuable from a P.R. standpoint, than the occasional job "lost".

I don't even look at it as a loss, I look at it as an investment. But on a deeper level than that, it is just fundamentally instinctive for me to be as helpful as I can to the customer to ensure that they will be as happy as possible.

I give customers the exact same advice I would give to my own family. That's the truth.

And sometimes it goes the opposite way, where my advice to the customer is that it is really in their best interest to do some things they weren't originally planning on doing that are going to make the project MORE expensive than they originally planned, but that in the long run it will be a worthwhile investment to do so.

In my opinion what is most important is doing what I feel is best for the customer, which for me supersedes whether we secure the income from the proposed project. 

Not that this post is to find fault with anyone who doesn't prioritize the same things, but rather to clarify why I think possibility of "losing a job" is not a very important thing to worry about when considered in the context of the bigger picture.

------------

But I do think this situation the OP has now described is a perfect opportunity and green light to not only secure the contract, but take advantage of an opportunity, in an ideal setting, to expand his experience, and repertoires.

All of the criteria are in place for the OP to engage in this learning experience with a maximum possibility of gain, and a minimum possibility of pain.

It is always a good strategy to maximize those ratios whenever possible.


----------



## Viet0002

I am appreciate all of you for the listed information.


----------



## oldskool

dvp said:


> thanks for replies. i guess im trying acrylic pre-cat laquer, 2 coats over acrylic. never used it before. probably try it on 1 door first to see how it works. took reps recommendation to cma. got extra money, anyways.


 We have done this with success. Gemini Titanium over Glidden Diamond.


----------



## dvp

i have already completed this job and the results were amazing. ill probably do all my painted cabs like this from now on. not only did it look awesome, but the clear cote made a hard shell over the finish. right im working out of state, so ill post some before and after pics when i get a chance.


----------



## JoseyWales

dvp said:


> i have already completed this job and the results were amazing. ill probably do all my painted cabs like this from now on. not only did it look awesome, but the clear cote made a hard shell over the finish. right im working out of state, so ill post some before and after pics when i get a chance.


Hey it's been over a month.I'd like to hear the details on what you used and how you sprayed it?.Tip size,everything involved.Pictures?


----------



## dvp

here are before /after pics. 
clean, krud cutter, sand 100
primer: coverstain 412 ff tip sand 220
paint: Dunn Edwards Permasheen+floetrol 412 ff tip sand 400
Clear: Valspar pre cat acrylic laquer 410 ff tip


----------



## JoseyWales

dvp said:


> here are before /after pics.
> clean, krud cutter, sand 100
> primer: coverstain 412 ff tip sand 220
> paint: Dunn Edwards Permasheen+floetrol 412 ff tip sand 400
> Clear: Valspar pre cat acrylic laquer 410 ff tip


 
Very nice work!.I've never used Dunn Edwards before.I've also never sprayed an acrylic lacquer through an airless before.I use an HVLP. I'll have to try that next.I'm just concerned about cleaning the rig and maybe you need another hose for lacquer. BTW, Valspar is a good brand.

Did you spray the doors flat and dry them on a rack? Also looks like a high gloss finish.


----------

