# Peerfect line between colors



## OC ZOOM (Aug 23, 2007)

How do I get that perfect line between two colors? The wall is flat plaster as well as the ceiling.I am using an interior flat paint. How do you get that perfect line between colors. The wall is dark and the ceiling is white. The ceiling and wall meet at 90 degrees.I don't want to use masking tape. Is there a trick you can share?


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

When cutting a wall to the ceiling, I wrap the paint up onto the ceiling just a hair. 

Make sure to keep the overlap very thin and consistent. If you stand up against the wall and look up, you will see a tiny overlap. But if you step back a foot or two, it will look sharp and straight.

Try it, you'll like it.


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## Nathan (Mar 28, 2007)

I used to be razor sharp before moving to Florida and Texas where everything has textured walls. It's almost impossible here to get prefect lines.

PWG, I'm trying to wrap my brain around what your suggesting and why. Got a photo?


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## OC ZOOM (Aug 23, 2007)

ProWallGuy said:


> When cutting a wall to the ceiling, I wrap the paint up onto the ceiling just a hair.
> 
> Make sure to keep the overlap very thin and consistent. If you stand up against the wall and look up, you will see a tiny overlap. But if you step back a foot or two, it will look sharp and straight.
> 
> .


PWG, I don't completely understand what you mean. Could you explain the procedure, and what brush you use.? A picture would be helpful if not too much trouble.


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## Bushdude (Apr 17, 2007)

Many people won't accept cutting onto the ceiling, even if it is uniform. Try standing as close to the top of the wall on your ladder as possible, so you are not looking up at your cut line. Another trick is to run a light pencil line on the crack between wall and ceiling, this gives you something to cut to.


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## Paintwerks (Apr 22, 2007)

For tricky corners, I to prefer to cut alittle onto the ceiling.
I like to stand in the middle of the room looking at all 4 walls and see no ceiling white coming onto the walls.
Hope that makes sense.

Thanks Dan


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## painterman (Jun 2, 2007)

Cutting onto the ceiling works good if it is a big room. When doing a narrow hall you have to be real careful with that method. I usually just "cut"(score) the ceiling /wall juction with a utility knife...just enough to make a line that you can follow. Oh ya make two passes at the ceiling/wall. Brush up to the ceiling to about an 1/8 away from the ceiling and then cut to the ceiling again while the wall is still wet. Brush moves alot easier. Love my Coronas for cutting in.


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

I have been doing this style for almost 20 years now. Never once have had a customer complain, or question the line. I have, in fact, taught several customers how to do it, as they commented that the lines look great. It looks good in big or small rooms, hallways, wherever. 

I use a Wooster 3" sash brush. I just cut in the wall, and gradually move the brush closer and closer until it hits the ceiling ever so slightly, and keep moving down the wall. Its important that the overlap is tiny and consistent.

I couldn't really find any jobsite pics where I took a pic of the line close up, so I just went into my son's room that I painted myself 2 years ago. It might be kinda hard to see, as he was asleep in there, and I had a night light to deal with, so I used the flash.

This is an extreme close-up of the line:











Here is what it looks like when you take one step back. This is probably the closest a customer will ever get, unless they are bumping their nose on the wall:










Another view from the same distance:











Step back a couple feet, and look at it from a normal viewing angle, and it looks tight and sharp:












I'll try to take some pics in there tomorrow in the normal light.


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## Runamuk (Aug 23, 2007)

ProWallGuy said:


> I have been doing this style for almost 20 years now. Never once have had a customer complain, or question the line. I have, in fact, taught several customers how to do it, as they commented that the lines look great. It looks good in big or small rooms, hallways, wherever.
> 
> I use a Wooster 3" sash brush. I just cut in the wall, and gradually move the brush closer and closer until it hits the ceiling ever so slightly, and keep moving down the wall. Its important that the overlap is tiny and consistent.
> 
> ...


Nice job. Now lets see some rounded corners that you have done free hand. LOL! I've had customers with their jaw wide open watching me do it. LOL!

Rick


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## welovepainting (May 13, 2007)

Bushdude said:


> Many people won't accept cutting onto the ceiling, even if it is uniform. Try standing as close to the top of the wall on your ladder as possible, so you are not looking up at your cut line. Another trick is to run a light pencil line on the crack between wall and ceiling, this gives you something to cut to.


 
The corner of a 5 in 1 works just as good or if not better than a pencil IMO. For dark colors we scribe a line with the 5 in 1 it makes somewhat of an indentation and it makes a little gray line. Your paint should stop at the indentation. As far as a certain brush thats up to you. Every painter is different me personally I like a 3" block brush.


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## Painter James (Aug 27, 2007)

If the customer is nit-picky, I'd tape and then dry-brush up to it.

Since you don't wanna tape...

I get as close to the cut-in area as I can, and then with a semi-dry brush I'll quickly move the brush along the corner, starting away from the corner at first until I have found the right spot, and as soon as that happens I'm running with it. I get up close to it and then move as quickly as I can once I've found the right angle. Go too slowly and the line wiggles--I use long strokes for cutting in.

I'll have to try this scoring business everyone's mentioned! Sounds like a plan.

As to the textured walls--

Being from Cali, yeah, that's all we had out there too! Texture texture texture. Hard to get a cut line.

So: 

You'd make one! With caulking. Get a nice bead to cut into. If you're going to do that, make sure you have the lid/trim paint for touch up, paint that first, and then move to the body.


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## Dutchman Painting (Oct 7, 2007)

Same for me...i use a sharp pencil and then run it along the cut-in line and follow this with the brush...also have used a steel putty knife that creases the cut-in line and leaves a grey line...after my cut-ins i still find i need to adjust a few places to get the correct line. this doesn't take long and really perfects the job


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## NuView Painting (Sep 25, 2007)

I use the very end tip of my brush and set it in the corner of the ceiling and wall and let the brush do the work no paint on the ceiling it goes right up to the end of the wall...unless you run across some bad texture job...opps it aint fault!!


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## Kelly Painting (Apr 17, 2007)

I just cut a straight line..... Haven't found too many guys who can just cut a straight line..... even guys who have been painting for a while. I guess when the customer doesn't complain... people just leave it as.. they did a good job.
I strive to be better than most guys..... and cut my lines perfect. 

Now If I'm hung over.. than thats a different story.


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## Tmrrptr (May 4, 2007)

We are sometimes amazed at how critical people wish to be...

Standing up on a chair within inches of a wall is discouraged!
r


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## NuView Painting (Sep 25, 2007)

Tmrrptr said:


> We are sometimes amazed at how critical people wish to be...
> 
> Standing up on a chair within inches of a wall is discouraged!
> r


...LOL YE FAREAL


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## painttofish (Aug 28, 2007)

Long strokes, steady hand, not hung over, not to much coffee, practice:thumbsup:


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## DelW (Apr 18, 2007)

painttofish said:


> Long strokes, steady hand, not hung over, not to much coffee, practice:thumbsup:


NOT TO MUCH COFFEE, hell, I can't paint without coffee.:laughing:


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Practice will get you the steady lines that you are looking for. I myself have no problems cutting a straight line. 
Yet perfect is a word you should stay away from to many varibles to haunt you.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

I cut the ceiling line same as pwg. Here in Tampa Everything is Textured !!!
Popcorn ceilings Orange peel or Splatter on walls. We've been doing alot of multi colored interiors with accent walls like back in the 80's. Just Finished red accent walls against white in kitchen and dinning room. Inside corners I do like driving a car, you have to look ahead of where you are to keep straight, too close and it gets shakey also a second cut really helps straighten out any bad areas. Outside corners I,ll tape and dry brush pull tape then tighten it up. Just got a nice bonus for this one


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## spinapainting (Oct 28, 2007)

i started business w/my girlfreind who has painted for years ,i have been painting for over 25 yrs,she calims all painters she worked with caulk first then paint to get strait line? i dont think its a good idea nor wiil you achieve quality lines,so far she has been using my way and kept quit,any one doing her method/thanks


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## Dete the Painter (Oct 15, 2007)

Try this...position yourself so you are at a 45 view into the cut line. This will allow you to see into the angle where the ceiling and wall meet and will show a crisp line from any view in the room. I also use a Sherwin-Williams "thin-angled sash" that lets me cut lines as thin as a pencil. This combined with scoring trick with the 5 in 1 (and a little practice) should give you what you are looking for.
Good luck!


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## dincao (Oct 25, 2007)

cmon guys !!!! paint on ceilings if u look from a side angle or underneath it will look like crap!!!bottom line is if the tape job is poor ur cut line is going to be same and u usually have to make and adjust ur line to follow....as for cutting ceiling line doesnt that cut ur tape job which will eventually crack all the way????


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I don't use tape, or paint the ceiling. First I would suggest a good brush. I use the purdy 3" pro sprig (thin stock) which is very stiff and has blue bristles. I can't use an angled sash because I learned with a straight brush and always end up dotting the ceiling with the long tip. 

I thin the paint to the point where it will still cover but be very loose. Some painters would rather do the final cut in from the ceiling to get it straight, I prefer the wall.

The rest comes with practice. Oh and you have to stick your tongue out a little


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## Ken S. (Apr 18, 2007)

OC Zoom,
Plaster wall & ceiling lines are never straight, ever! I'd cut abit of wall color up on ceiling(1/16th or so) and also use a sharp pointed "5 in 1" tool to "set" the cut line first, as sand aggregate can be "lumpy & wavy", even on floated finish plaster walls. Another "trick"(but laborsome)is to run a fine bead of caulk at wall/ceiling edge to smooth out uneveness, let set up then cut in to make appear as a "straight line".


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Look at the line from the floor. Climb your ladder and look at it closer. Stare at it. Three lines will appear. Draw the line in the middle. No tape. The only thing standing between the brush and the perfect line is you. Oh, and give yourself a few years to master this.


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## PowerPaintingUK (Dec 2, 2007)

If I'm doing a feature wall in a room that has all walls the same colour it can sometimes be difficult to see where one wall ends and the other begins. In this instance I usually lie a pencil flat against the wall I'm NOT painting and draw a very thin line all the way down/along the wall I AM painting. due to the thickness of the pencil (the body of which is lying against the wall you're not painting) the line you draw will be about 2 or 3 mm (1/8 inch .ish..) away from the corner/join. Then all you need do is paint 'just over' that pencil line and you're there. Really though, the BEST advice I think I can give you is when you cut in always use some paint in a small kettle/container and add just a little water to thin it very very slightly; just enough to "loosen" the paint. Believe me, when you just slightly loosen the paint it will flow much better and give you much easier smoother line.
Hope thats of some help.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

I've alway's looked at it like they teach you in drivers ed. Look down the road not directly where your at. Looking to close causes your line to waver to much. I tend to look about 8 to 12" ahead of where I'm cuttin'. Never had any complaints(yet)


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## NuView Painting (Sep 25, 2007)

WOW!! tape! chalk! for straight ceiling lines.. I mean maybe the sheet rock finishers are different there but here if your working behind someone that know what they are doing you should be able to cut in walls to ceilings just by touch with your brush..but not sure how things are done in alls area..duno, but just dipping the brush in paint works for me...


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## PowerPaintingUK (Dec 2, 2007)

Just brushing is way too slow for me...


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## NuView Painting (Sep 25, 2007)

PowerPaintingUK said:


> Just brushing is way too slow for me...


well you cant spray everything...unless you spend alot of time and money to tape up everything you previously sprayed which to me dont make sense. I spray everything ceilings, trim, doors, any mantels, cabinets .. everything but the walls.. then i go back and cut in and roll the walls...which dosnt take much time at all...that might be where you wanna hire some help for 2 - 3 days.. one man on top one man on bottom the other rolling the walls... see how fast that goes...:thumbsup:


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## PowerPaintingUK (Dec 2, 2007)

NuView Painting said:


> well you cant spray everything...


Can and do:thumbsup:


NuView Painting said:


> ...that might be where you wanna hire some help for 2 - 3 days.. one man on top one man on bottom the other rolling the walls... see how fast that goes...


I just do it all myself and I work about four times quicker than I used to without airless so it pays very well for me to work this way:yes:


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## paulingrad (Dec 23, 2007)

you spray the woodwork? do you take the doors off? what about brass hinges... do you tape them?


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## PowerPaintingUK (Dec 2, 2007)

paulingrad said:


> you spray the woodwork? do you take the doors off? what about brass hinges... do you tape them?


I take doors off if they're not being painted. Otherwise I usually mask the hinges as it's quicker than removing the doors. Most doors on construction jobs here are fire-doors by law which makes them extremely heavy and not removable by one person alone. The large house I'm painting at the moment has pre-finished doors that don't get painted so I've asked the contractor to have one of their carpenters remove all the doors 1 floor at a time before I paint.
btw if there were brass hinges the HO/GC would probably ask me to paint them as that is such an old look here; everyone goes for stainless steel or chrome hinges here.


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## paulingrad (Dec 23, 2007)

Hi. I'm from the U.K. as well. I ask coz I tried spraying newbuilds about 5 years ago. Next thing, the site agent appears with my boss, "What's he doing?" No one had ever seen it before. the hinges were wrought iron so I had no problem with masking. Spraying a town house staircase was a dream - took me about an hour to go from top to bottom. Trouble was my sprayer was too cheap and kept blocking. but I could see the potential. 

How about spraying gloss paint? any problems - did you have to lay it off?

How about thinning? you would probably have to thin it to get it through the gun. Wouldn't this cause premature yellowing of the paint?

I now do residential work so no use for spraying there but what sort of rig do you recommend?


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## NuView Painting (Sep 25, 2007)

PowerPaintingUK said:


> I take doors off if they're not being painted. Otherwise I usually mask the hinges as it's quicker than removing the doors. Most doors on construction jobs here are fire-doors by law which makes them extremely heavy and not removable by one person alone. The large house I'm painting at the moment has pre-finished doors that don't get painted so I've asked the contractor to have one of their carpenters remove all the doors 1 floor at a time before I paint.
> btw if there were brass hinges the HO/GC would probably ask me to paint them as that is such an old look here; everyone goes for stainless steel or chrome hinges here.


what bout prep work do you caulk spackle sand behind the door near the hinge isnt that kinda hard with the door still on the frame?? and what do you do? mask the doors and frames after you do all the trim? whats the process how do you achive the wall color?? 2 coats on the wall or just 1 back rolling?? what about ceilings without crown? what do you do mask the ceilings off to spray the walls?


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## PowerPaintingUK (Dec 2, 2007)

NuView Painting said:


> what bout prep work do you caulk spackle sand behind the door near the hinge isnt that kinda hard with the door still on the frame??


Not sure what you mean here. I have no problem with prep whilst the doors are in place. Maybe it's something to do with how we work differently here or how the carpenters do..



NuView Painting said:


> and what do you do? mask the doors and frames after you do all the trim? whats the process how do you achive the wall color?? 2 coats on the wall or just 1 back rolling?? what about ceilings without crown? what do you do mask the ceilings off to spray the walls?


All walls & ceilings here are fully plastered all over(even on the rare occaisions when we "dry line" a wall it is still fully skim plastered all over) so basically, they have a pretty much perfect finish(except for minor blemishes that the painter would fill and correct) and so when sprayed they look stunning and feel like paper to touch. Because they have this "perfect" plaster finish, if I spray them I dont backroll because that would spoil the paint finish and people here are really impressed by spray finishes(dont forget we dont have much airless painting here in the UK). Some more expensive houses, especially in London, use the spray finish as a selling point and the houses are sold as "spray only" because it looks and feels so damned good on gypsum plastered surfaces. My painting process is:
prep everything, prime/undercoat all trim, topcoat all trim, mask trim, spray all the walls with a 50% overlap thus giving 2 coats at once, mask all walls around ceiling line with low tack tape & 3M pre-folded film, spray all ceilings with 50% overlap, remove all masking, get paid, complain that carpenters aren't quick enough, take 2 days off

You gotta remember, house construction here is very different to the US, over here all houses are very much more substantial and built out of brick and concrete block/render. They last for hundreds of years. Timber framed houses are pretty much non-existent because they are considered very cheap/weak and fire hazards. There are a very small amount of newer "sustainable" houses that are timber framed but you would generally find they are framed with huge oak beams that also last hundreds of years. Even the cheapest mass produced houses here are brick/concrete block built on the outside and stud walled inside; even then the interior walls are only stud if they are not load bearing. All load bearing walls here are brick or block built. Also, when we build brick or block exterior/adjoining walls they are 2 courses thick (like having 2 skins)and have an insulating air cavity of about 3 or 4 inches in between each "skin" so for example: if you put a 20lb hammer through a brick house wall you might break through one course but you would still have to break through a second 'wall' to get inside.
I personally don't think there is anything wrong with drywall etc but here it's considered as being "thrown up in 5 minutes". I suppose our house prices probably reflect the differences. Mine is a small terraced house(connected on both sides to other houses) with 2 bedrooms & a bathroom upstairs and kitchen, living room and garage downstairs. front garden/parking area for 2 cars and rear garden of approx' 65 feet by 18 feet and that would cost £180,000 at the moment($358,558.61 US) Is that a lot more than the same size house in the US?
You guys definately have better painting stuff; more paint ranges, better equipment, cheaper prices etc etc..


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## PowerPaintingUK (Dec 2, 2007)

paulingrad said:


> How about spraying gloss paint? any problems - did you have to lay it off?
> How about thinning? you would probably have to thin it to get it through the gun. Wouldn't this cause premature yellowing of the paint?


spraying with airless gives an amazing finish so no you dont lay it off; I use a fine finish tip for gloss work and it looks amazing when finished. You dont need to do any thinning with an airless rig, it will suck up even the thickest paints although sometimes I might put a small amount of thinner(water or white spirit depending on the type of paint being sprayed) just to 'loosen' the paint a little but thats just to improve the finish. It sounds like you were using a cheap small sprayer? Was it an hvlp?



paulingrad said:


> Spraying a town house staircase was a dream - took me about an hour to go from top to bottom.
> I now do residential work so no use for spraying there but what sort of rig do you recommend?


Spraying a staircase was what got me into spraying in the first instance. If you want to take it seriously you need to get something like a graco 495 but you'll need plenty of practice to get used to it and avoid problems on the job. With my 495 I do 4 large bedrooms, 2 with large en-suites and a bathroom from start of prep to finish in around 10 6-hour days. The actual spraying part of that only takes 3 half days though.:yes: Thats to a really high standard too.(£1.2 million house)


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## Joewho (Apr 17, 2007)

I was taught that when you look up, there should be no paint on the ceiling and if you can't get the line straight, then it should be a little lower on the wall, rather than on the ceiling.

A 5n1 lightly dragged will help get you a good line. Otherwise, I've always just gone back and forth with the ceiling paint, until it's straight. 

Making the customer happy is one thing, making myself happy is another.

PWG, did you get my pm?


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## NuView Painting (Sep 25, 2007)

Thats about the going rate for a nice house in my area ..and you are right its a big difference the way they are built here to there in the UK, I would love to come a paint a house there..cause Im a spray freak my self I spray every thing I can ..


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