# Regal Flat scaring the [email protected] out of me.



## Lakesidex (Oct 9, 2011)

I know Regal Flat is supposed to have a little more sheen to it than a dead flat but the stuff I'm using has more sheen than the Regal Matte I've been using.

The color is Carolina Gull - base 3 - looks like a green/gray.

This is in a hallway with 18' ceilings and critical light. That's why I chose the flat over the matte. The wall in the pics was cut yesterday, rolled today and then 2nd cut about 4 hour later. Pics were taken 3 hours after the cut.

Temp was around 69 degrees with about %50 humidity... almost perfect painting conditions. I don't believe when I roll a 2nd coat tomorrow everything will look great.

Will this Regal dry down or am I screwed... when I picked up the paint, the assistant said that the paint had been sitting around for a while but that it mixed fine.

I've been using other base 3 reds and oranges in Matte on the same job with no problems.

Is the paint bad... Should I cut my losses and grab some Ultraspec or something else... 
My supplier has no more base 3 in stock...


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## Delta Painting (Apr 27, 2010)

Godda lay out the cut nice and thin with a lot of the new prouct's on the market these days..They snap so quick ( Dry ) the good old day's of layin on the cut heavy are gone...Rolling in an area like that I would have added a wee bit of H2O..


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## Lakesidex (Oct 9, 2011)

Delta Painting said:


> Godda lay out the cut nice and thin with a lot of the new prouct's on the market these days..They snap so quick ( Dry ) the good old day's of layin on the cut heavy are gone...Rolling in an area like that I would have added a wee bit of H2O..


yea I added a little bit of water as I went and it helpt.... unfortunately not on the big wall:surprise:

But man... this is supposed to be flat. Hope the paint isn't hosed.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*More Ovaltine, please.*



Lakesidex said:


> yea I added a little bit of water as I went and it helpt.... unfortunately not on the big wall:surprise:
> 
> But man... this is supposed to be flat. Hope the paint isn't hosed.


What was on the walls (and how long was it there) before you did anything, then what exactly did you do? In other words, did you just go paint the walls or did you do any type of prep first? More info is better, at least for me.

futtyos


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## Mr Smith (Mar 11, 2016)

Lakesidex said:


> yea I added a little bit of water as I went and it helpt.... unfortunately not on the big wall:surprise:
> 
> But man... this is supposed to be flat. Hope the paint isn't hosed.


Add 1/3 quart of BM Extender per gallon. That'll give you a longer open time. What kind of roller are you using? I prefer the Wooster Pro/Doo-Z 1/2" with Regal. I'm not a big fan of the microfibres.


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## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

Cut one day let sit and rolled the next day.... seriously?


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## Delta Painting (Apr 27, 2010)

Lakesidex said:


> yea I added a little bit of water as I went and it helpt.... unfortunately not on the big wall:surprise:
> 
> But man... this is supposed to be flat. Hope the paint isn't hosed.


I would roll it out again a bit heavy back roll it I'll bet she flash no more ..:vs_cool: These low VOC Green paint's suck, Thank's Al!


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*BM paint*



Lakesidex said:


> yea I added a little bit of water as I went and it helpt.... unfortunately not on the big wall:surprise:
> 
> But man... this is supposed to be flat. Hope the paint isn't hosed.


I don't use BM paint as a rule, but a couple of years ago I had to do touch-up mold repair and such. I took an old can of Super Hide to get touch-up paint from the original BM dealer the old paint was from. He mixed a gallon without painting a blotch on top of the can. I fugured he knew what he was doing. I painted the wall to match the 2 other adjacent flat painted walls. The wall I painted was 2 shades darker and glossier than an eggshell, not a dead flat that i was looking for. And I had giant paint chips that he could have scanned.

When I saw how shiny the flat paint was, I painted a big circle on the lid and brought it back and asked what was going on. He said that it must be flat because it said so on the can. He would not refund my money without the receipt that was lost somewhere in the black hole of my car. I finally found the receipt and got my money back. Then I went to Home Depot near where I live and asked Gary (who I trust) to mix me a quart of flat paint to match the best chips of paint I have ever brought to a paint store ever....and he did the trick and it went on like it was at home.

I hope your experience was not that. It does appear that the surface you are showing photos of does not hide anything from the light, at least at the time of day that you took your photos. My guess is that if the paint is not the problem, the surface that you are working with needs to be equalized--------2 coats of Gardz = back to a clean slate/palette, then paint. This should not be too big of a thing as Gardz is clear and you already have the color up the, so the Gardz will give you a clean slate over which to paint the very same color. Now the only thing you need to make sure of is that whatever flat paint you put up there is ..... flat.

Having painted at Marina Towers in Chicago where the windows are basically from 6" above the floor up to the ceiling, light is going to be treachurous on ceilings and certain walls.

futtyos


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## Lakesidex (Oct 9, 2011)

futtyos said:


> What was on the walls (and how long was it there) before you did anything, then what exactly did you do? In other words, did you just go paint the walls or did you do any type of prep first? More info is better, at least for me.
> 
> futtyos


I would guess the original paint was the old Regal Wall Satin in a linen painted about 10 years ago. I did a bunch of repairs and spot primed with a true flat trying to stay consistent with the surface. I haven't rolled a lot of the Regal Select flat but i treated it like the old Regal which was probably my mistake.
The repairs look fine it's the roller marks and cut lines that look bad.


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## rosespainting (Mar 16, 2014)

looks like it needs a second coat. I have noticed the BM regal select does not look good after 1 coat on dry walls. Another coat should fix what your seeing. 

I also not add water to BM regal select. Instead get the BM extender if you need more open time.


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## Lakesidex (Oct 9, 2011)

Mr Smith said:


> Add 1/3 quart of BM Extender per gallon. That'll give you a longer open time. What kind of roller are you using? I prefer the Wooster Pro/Doo-Z 1/2" with Regal. I'm not a big fan of the microfibres.


Using a wooster Pro Doo Z FTP 14" 1/2" nap. 

I was having some issues with the 508 Ultra Flat. Used about 4 oz BM extender and all my problems went away. I will never use the 508 without extender again.


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## Lakesidex (Oct 9, 2011)

thinkpainting/nick said:


> Cut one day let sit and rolled the next day.... seriously?


Absolutely!


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## Lakesidex (Oct 9, 2011)

futtyos said:


> It does appear that the surface you are showing photos of does not hide anything from the light, at least at the time of day that you took your photos. My guess is that if the paint is not the problem, the surface that you are working with needs to be equalized--------2 coats of Gardz = back to a clean slate/palette, then paint. This should not be too big of a thing as Gardz is clear and you already have the color up the, so the Gardz will give you a clean slate over which to paint the very same color. Now the only thing you need to make sure of is that whatever flat paint you put up there is ..... flat.
> 
> Having painted at Marina Towers in Chicago where the windows are basically from 6" above the floor up to the ceiling, light is going to be treachurous on ceilings and certain walls.
> 
> futtyos


I understand that Gardz makes things a lot better but this was suppose to be a 2 coat job. It would be really tough for me to put 4 more coats up there. Customer has guests coming so I basically need to get out of there tomorrow.:smile:

If I could have gotten Ultraspec in that color I think 2 coats would have probably worked. 3 definitely. 

So do you think 2 more coats with the Regal with extender will do the trick? The lighting is brutal.


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## Mr Smith (Mar 11, 2016)

Lakesidex said:


> Using a wooster Pro Doo Z FTP 14" 1/2" nap.
> 
> I was having some issues with the 508 Ultra Flat. Used about 4 oz BM extender and all my problems went away. I will never use the 508 without extender again.


I've never had an issue with the 508. It's the best ceiling paint I've ever used.
If there was a hall of fame for paints it would make my list.

I've only used white in the 508. Were you using a tinted color?


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## Lakesidex (Oct 9, 2011)

Mr Smith said:


> I've never had an issue with the 508. It's the best ceiling paint I've ever used.
> If there was a hall of fame for paints it would make my list.
> 
> I've only used white in the 508. Were you using a tinted color?


No just white, but I've been using it on a lot of open floor plans in big kitchens with a lot of recessed lighting and nooks and crannies. Also in rooms with a ton of stuff to work around that slows you down.

Found my roller covers and brushes clean up way better if using the extender. 

First time ever using the 508 I rolled a 40' x 40' barn ceiling when it was 90+ degrees and that beat me up good.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

Lakesidex said:


> I understand that Gardz makes things a lot better but this was suppose to be a 2 coat job. It would be really tough for me to put 4 more coats up there. Customer has guests coming so I basically need to get out of there tomorrow.:smile:
> 
> If I could have gotten Ultraspec in that color I think 2 coats would have probably worked. 3 definitely.
> 
> So do you think 2 more coats with the Regal with extender will do the trick? The lighting is brutal.


I learned a valuable lesson. NEVER use gardz underneath a matte finish. I know thats not the case here, but dont listen to people who swear by it. Its great, for certain things, but not nesessary and/or bad for other things.

IDK why you're having these problems, but for any two coat job, you should try rolling first step, cutting in second, and third, then rolling again 4th.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Supposed to be?*



Lakesidex said:


> I understand that Gardz makes things a lot better but this was suppose to be a 2 coat job. It would be really tough for me to put 4 more coats up there. Customer has guests coming so I basically need to get out of there tomorrow.:smile:
> 
> If I could have gotten Ultraspec in that color I think 2 coats would have probably worked. 3 definitely.
> 
> So do you think 2 more coats with the Regal with extender will do the trick? The lighting is brutal.


Lakesidex, I like your sense of humor when you say "this was suppose to be a 2 coat job." Here is what can happen if you suppose things that cannot be:






That being said, the wall you are having problems with is probably not much different from any of the other walls - except that it gets brutal lighting, whereas the others don't, so they don't show up all the imperfections.

IMHO you need to get the surface back to a new canvas, meaning that you need to seal the surface so that whatever you put on top is not influenced by what is underneath. This means sealing the surface properly. Gardz seals surfaces if applied according to directions, meaning that if you apply one coat and see flashing after it dries, you need to apply more Gardz until you see a uniform sheen.

I had a wall at Marina Towers that went from a bathroom straight out into a bedroom with floor to ceiling windows at the end facing south. The bedroom wall in particular had nowhere to hide from the light whatsoever! The GC kept trying to fix/skim little problems after I would prime and paint until he got really frustrated with how it kept flashing. I told him to go home and let me work on it. I rolled 2 coats of Gardz over the whole bedroom wall, then double coated it with the matte finish paint we were using. Other than some skim coat problems that were the GC's fault, the sheen was uniform and flawless, and he admitted as such - even though he hated the idea of Gardz.

I didn't do this to any other wall in the condo as none of the other walls got the same mercilous lighting, but when a wall comes along like this, that is what I do so I am guaranteed as uniform a finish as I can get. There are other sealers on the market. I have heard that Draw-Tite by Scotch Paints is much better than Gardz. I would like to try it sometime.

Some here will say that Gardz makes almost any finish look shinier. That may be the case. What actually might be happening is that sealing the surface uniformly shows off the true sheen of the paint as none of it gets sucked up into the ceiling or walls. When painting over a properly sealed surface, the water in the paint stays in the paint until it evaporates out into the room, instead of getting sucked up into whatever surface it is going on.

Another problem that might be happening here is that the dark green is showing stuff that didn't show up as much with the old color. Even if you seal the wall and paint it again, you will still see physical variations in the surface just because it is not perfectly flat. You can skim coat to try and soften up these variations, but that should have been done properly in the first place, not waiting for a painter to come by and make corrections.

I would put 2 coats of Gardz or other equally good clear sealer, then give it one top coat and see what happens. Then, in the future, start looking for potentially problematic ceilings and walls when you work on bids. If your problem is coming from the paint itself, that needs to be found out.

I use Gardz because I don't like conducting experiments any more, you know, the kind of experiment where I think I can give something the normal treatment and hope that it comes out well when my experience tells me that that is likely not going to be the case.

One doesn't need to use Gardz everywhere, just where it will make a difference.

Jest my 2 cents.

futtyos


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

It does take a few days for any sheen/gloss to reach it's true level. As the paint dries and cures the flattener pigments "migrate" to the surface. (quotations because it isn't really what is happening but that is the most common word used to describe it). Sometimes certain colors show this much worse than others. I know it is a pita but I'd let it go a few days and check it. I know,i know! Ain't nobody got time for that 5hit! But unless you do it i'd just recoat it.

And i have my doubts as to why they used a base 3 on that color. I know it is BM's formula but i really think that color should be done in base 2. Whether this is causing the issue or not i really don't know. Just a thought.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

And Fyi, Ben Moore does actually recommend allowing the cut to dry completely before rolling on to it. I don't think letting it go overnight is the cause of the problem.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

Futtyos, you use gardz as a crutch. You should just try putting two coats of a decent paint on a wall (I believe you mentioned somewhere that you use Behr) and look at it. You will notice it looks just fine. Then add up all the time and materials you will save by not needlessly priming every wall before you paint it. 



Anyway, to the OP, I would just ditch the regal, and use a step down, to Ben. High end flat paints are very touchy. You shouldnt have to add extenders to cut and roll walls. If Ben is anything like Pure Performance, which it supposedy is, it will still have a durable, and washable surface, and be much less finicky to apply, not to mention easier on your wallet.

However, I didnt know that it it can take a few days to mellow out, like Pacman says, and I've never waited that long. Try telling that to the homeowners though....


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## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

You could always install some blinds or shades on that window and sell it as an upcharge.


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## stl911 (Jul 16, 2014)

I think it is a typical issue for Benjamin Moore flat, I always have this kind issue with their flat. this is why I go with Sherwin Williams if i have to use flat finish. however, if the customer insists with Benjamin Moore flat, my solution to reduce this kind issue is cut in first then roll over my cut right away with 4 inch roller to make the flashing minimum and close to the object


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

*Regal*

I don't think cutting in one day and rolling the next presents any problems with the product you're using. In fact, I've had far less problems with Regal and Aura by letting the cut dry completely before rolling. 

I doubt I'm telling you anything you don't already know, but...

A few things, (though some have already been mentioned)

-Consider using a 2 gallon cut pot with a mini roller. Make sure the mini roller is the exact same blend & nap as the roller you'll be using for your bigger roller. Do the normal cut as you typically would, then take your mini roller and feather it out. You shouldn't be loading up the mini roller with paint. Its' main job is to give you the stipple you want to match the bulk of the rolled walls. Roll tight to the cut, then feather out to the wall.

-Might consider the longest roller cover you can feel comfortable with on those high walls, whether it's 14" or 18". If you decide to stay with a 9" roller, you may want to add extender.

-Like Josh, (JMays) has said many times, on larger walls with critical light, pay attention to your finishing stroke on each wall so they they are all the same direction. Initially get the paint on the wall and spread the entire height of a section, roll back slightly into paint you just applied, then do your finishing stroke either all up or all down...doesn't matter, as long as they are all the same direction. * I know you already know how to roll well*, but this tip really is a great little nugget I picked up from Josh a few years ago, and have remembered to implement it when the situation calls for it. Usually only with higher sheens and/or darker colors, but still very useful for rolling walls on areas with a lot of reflective & critical light.

-If & when this kind of situation presents itself in the future, I don't see anything wrong with including 1 coat of Gardz in your time & price allotment. I think 2 coats of Gardz on a situation like this would be way overkill, and I just don't see the advantage of applying a 2nd coat of Gardz...at least not here anyway.

I'm sure it'll all turn out great after your second coat. Don't sweat it. You got this.


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## Lakesidex (Oct 9, 2011)

stl911 said:


> I think it is a typical issue for Benjamin Moore flat, I always have this kind issue with their flat. this is why I go with Sherwin Williams if i have to use flat finish. however, if the customer insists with Benjamin Moore flat, my solution to reduce this kind issue is cut in first then roll over my cut right away with 4 inch roller to make the flashing minimum and close to the object


looked at the TDS for Regal flat, Ultra Spec flat and Ben flat :

Regal - Sheen Flat (1 – 3.5 @ 85°)

Ultra Spec 500 - Sheen Flat (1.5 - 3.5 @ 85°)

Ben - Sheen Flat (2-10 @ 85°)

According to the TDS, at times, the Regal is the most flat? And flatter than Ultra Spec.... I find that hard to believe.

I guess it depends on the base or something. 

I wonder what Regal colors would fall under the "1" for sheen.


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## Lakesidex (Oct 9, 2011)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> A few things, (though some have already been mentioned)
> 
> -Consider using a 2 gallon cut pot with a mini roller. Make sure the mini roller is the exact same blend & nap as the roller you'll be using for your bigger roller. Do the normal cut as you typically would, then take your mini roller and feather it out. You shouldn't be loading up the mini roller with paint. Its' main job is to give you the stipple you want to match the bulk of the rolled walls. Roll tight to the cut, then feather out to the wall.
> 
> ...


*Used a good amount of extender today, took my time and laid on a real heavy second coat. Everything looks great except that tough wall, which looks ok/good - didn't see it completely dry yet. Tomorrow, If necessary, I will 3rd coat just that 1 wall. *


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

futtyos said:


> ......
> 
> Some here will say that Gardz makes almost any finish look shinier. That may be the case. What actually might be happening is that sealing the surface uniformly shows off the true sheen of the paint as none of it gets sucked up into the ceiling or walls. When painting over a properly sealed surface, the water in the paint stays in the paint until it evaporates out into the room, instead of getting sucked up into whatever surface it is going on.
> 
> ...




That’s exactly what’s happening. A well sealed surface is going to have better sheen hold out than a porous one. Shellac primer has the same effect of maximizing sheen hold out and drying time. We all know how much different it is to paint over a satin finish wall as opposed to one that only has builders flat on it, or how much more sheen the second coat of semi gloss has than the first coat over factory primer. It’s the same principal. 

Personally, I prefer to paint over a well sealed surface. I know many painters do not. I do think it’s a matter of preference and approach rather than right/wrong. 

Glad it all worked out Lakeside, those critical light walls can be brutal even with flat paint. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Status report?*



Lakesidex said:


> *Used a good amount of extender today, took my time and laid on a real heavy second coat. Everything looks great except that tough wall, which looks ok/good - didn't see it completely dry yet. Tomorrow, If necessary, I will 3rd coat just that 1 wall. *


Lakesidex, how did that one wall turn out? Also, what kind of fish are you holding in your avatar?

futtyos


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## Lakesidex (Oct 9, 2011)

A few pics from the finished hallway. Everything should have gotten 3 coats. But only the 2 problem walls did. Seemed like there was a much better film formed after the 3rd coat and color was deeper/richer. Also less banding.

Still not happy with the high walls after the 3rd coat. Laid on a section then finished rolling 1 direction from top to bottom without lifting the roller. Can still see some flashing roller marks. I put a lot of paint on and used extender. Maybe not enough "equal" pressure the whole roll down. Maybe it will dry down and flatten out in a while.

Thanks all for the help and insights.

p.s not my trim work. Didn't touch it.


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## Lakesidex (Oct 9, 2011)

pic


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Looks good*



Lakesidex said:


> A few pics from the finished hallway. Everything should have gotten 3 coats. But only the 2 problem walls did. Seemed like there was a much better film formed after the 3rd coat and color was deeper/richer. Also less banding.
> 
> Still not happy with the high walls after the 3rd coat. Laid on a section then finished rolling 1 direction from top to bottom without lifting the roller. Can still see some flashing roller marks. I put a lot of paint on and used extender. Maybe not enough "equal" pressure the whole roll down. Maybe it will dry down and flatten out in a while.
> 
> ...


Looks good from the photos. Largemouth in avatar?

futtyos


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## Lakesidex (Oct 9, 2011)

futtyos said:


> Looks good from the photos. Largemouth in avatar?
> 
> futtyos


yea good looking little guy.


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

Did you try contacting the paint rep? See if he/she would be able to come out to your jobsite and see what might be issue or have the rep comp you some new paint to see if it helps? 

Oh wait. Benjie doesn't probably have a paint rep that works out of an ace store. Maybe Sherwin isn't that bad after all? 

Good luck on your issue, BM usually has good stuff, but not full proof all the time. Just making a point that some forget about. I'll wait for Pac to jump in on the comments.


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## Lakesidex (Oct 9, 2011)

futtyos said:


> Looks good from the photos. Largemouth in avatar?
> 
> futtyos


I do think I would have had better luck if the walls were better sealed. 

Funny how you get a job for time and materials and you think you will have the opportunity to do some really good work. yet the customer chooses a more production oriented approach to the job.


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## Lakesidex (Oct 9, 2011)

woodcoyote said:


> Did you try contacting the paint rep? See if he/she would be able to come out to your jobsite and see what might be issue or have the rep comp you some new paint to see if it helps?
> 
> Oh wait. Benjie doesn't probably have a paint rep that works out of an ace store. Maybe Sherwin isn't that bad after all?
> 
> Good luck on your issue, BM usually has good stuff, but not full proof all the time. Just making a point that some forget about. I'll wait for Pac to jump in on the comments.


I didn't put up the bad pic from the merciless angle. Couldn't bear the comments..

Maybe tomorrow, unless it really dries down....


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

Lakesidex said:


> I didn't put up the bad pic from the merciless angle. Couldn't bear the comments..
> 
> Maybe tomorrow, unless it really dries down....


Sorry, can't help you much with BM stuff. I don't hardly use anything other than SW. A few things but not much.

I've used BM many years ago and thought it was good stuff. Wasn't blown away by it, but it wasn't bad either. Same with a bunch of other stuff including SW paints. Good, but not wow. Only been around a few products that really are wowzers. My list is short for them, but they never cease to fail me or make a huge impression on the customer.

Anyway, the only shot in the dark is this:
1.) Maybe not stirred enough. Flattening agents are added to the paint to lower the gloss. Sometimes shaking doesn't get them all from the bottom, an actual scrape might work. They need to be suspended in the paint in order to work properly. 

2.) Assuming all shaking/stirring etc was done correctly, that eliminates pigment issues. I've seen streaks of pigment put on (not stirred properly) or over saturation and that can tweak the sheen. 

So with that being said, the other possibility is that your experiencing build-out. Where the coating's chemicals and thickness are playing a role in additional coats getting shinier. Cashmere is notorious for this and I've seen it first hand on a few homes I've done myself. It's become a situational product for us, with flat walls being a no-go with it. 


Hopefully you find a solution to your issue. Just remember to come back and let us all know the result/lesson learned, might help others.


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## goga (Aug 6, 2015)

Any paint will do that on old surface. Two coats is a necessity, cuz old paint is spongy.


PS: unless it is sprayed, which is not the case in occupied dwelling in most cases.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*?*



goga said:


> Any paint will do that on old surface. Two coats is a necessity, cuz old paint is spongy.
> 
> 
> PS: unless it is sprayed, which is not the case in occupied dwelling in most cases.


goga, I am nonplused by your comment.

futtyos


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Shake, shake, shake*



woodcoyote said:


> Sorry, can't help you much with BM stuff. I don't hardly use anything other than SW. A few things but not much.
> 
> I've used BM many years ago and thought it was good stuff. Wasn't blown away by it, but it wasn't bad either. Same with a bunch of other stuff including SW paints. Good, but not wow. Only been around a few products that really are wowzers. My list is short for them, but they never cease to fail me or make a huge impression on the customer.
> 
> ...


Woodcoyote, I have read (possibly here) that it is a good idea for mixed paint to be shaken twice. I have taken to asking for that to be done. Any thoughts on that?

futtyos


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## Lakesidex (Oct 9, 2011)

futtyos said:


> Woodcoyote, I have read (possibly here) that it is a good idea for mixed paint to be shaken twice. I have taken to asking for that to be done. Any thoughts on that?
> 
> futtyos


BTW I did have them shake the paint twice cause it was a pretty deep base.

I was also told the paint was pretty old. Stock they got from a sister store that closed. But was also told it mixed well and would be fine.


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## goga (Aug 6, 2015)

futtyos said:


> goga, I am nonplused by your comment.
> 
> futtyos


 What is so hard to understand? Old paint dries out and becomes porous, meaning, brush makes smoother coat than the roller cuz it "flows over the top", around "cut ins" will be smoother than the main area, have to go with the roller around those cut ins to make texture like surface. 

I never make round shapes around those things, I take them off and roll to stipple, make texture, square shaped, no round. It is in my mind stupid to do round shapes around round things.


Meanwhile, it is a necessity to do two coats on old, especially flat, paints.


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## 804 Paint (Jan 31, 2014)

Looks good but wish you would have taken the pictures from the same angle. 

Is that a drip of green on the 6th spindle from the bottom?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Just an fyi- all of the newer "lo voc" paints should be shaken for at least 6 minutes. That is 2-3 times longer than a standard "cycle" in a paint shaker, unless it is a newer or modified shaker. Always have the store shake your paint at least 2 cycles, 3-4 would be optimum. If they don't want to do it? Find someone who will service your product properly.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*My bad.*



goga said:


> What is so hard to understand? Old paint dries out and becomes porous, meaning, brush makes smoother coat than the roller cuz it "flows over the top", around "cut ins" will be smoother than the main area, have to go with the roller around those cut ins to make texture like surface.
> 
> I never make round shapes around those things, I take them off and roll to stipple, make texture, square shaped, no round. It is in my mind stupid to do round shapes around round things.
> 
> ...


Got it. Makes sense now. Sorry for brain hiccup.

futtyos


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## Lakesidex (Oct 9, 2011)

804 Paint said:


> Looks good but wish you would have taken the pictures from the same angle.
> 
> Is that a drip of green on the 6th spindle from the bottom?
> 
> ...


Yea that's a bomber of a drip. It's still there.

There's like a million people in that house at the moment. Relatives and stuff. I'm working in the basement and not leaving the basement to go upstairs and get that drip until the're all gone.


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## Lakesidex (Oct 9, 2011)

804 Paint said:


> Looks good but wish you would have taken the pictures from the same angle.
> 
> Is that a drip of green on the 6th spindle from the bottom?
> 
> ...


finished product after 3 coats.

I'm just happy the customer is happy and I got paid. I would have used a tinted primer for first coat in my house.

Thought I'd like working for time and materials but it can be a real pain in the but if the customer tries to squeeze you. Rather just give em a price and do good work. Live and learn.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

is that a skylight to the left in these pictures or just a light fixture?


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## 804 Paint (Jan 31, 2014)

Looks like it's just the window.

Did you try using a mini roller around that fire alarm?

Time and materials is the best. How did the customer try to squeeze you? If you log your time every day and report it to the owner, there is no problem. At least it's been that way for me!

Usually when I do straight bids, I always find a way to hose myself…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Good job!*



Lakesidex said:


> finished product after 3 coats.
> 
> I'm just happy the customer is happy and I got paid. I would have used a tinted primer for first coat in my house.
> 
> Thought I'd like working for time and materials but it can be a real pain in the but if the customer tries to squeeze you. Rather just give em a price and do good work. Live and learn.


Lakesidex, this definately looks better!

futtyos


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## Lakesidex (Oct 9, 2011)

804 Paint said:


> Looks like it's just the window.
> 
> Did you try using a mini roller around that fire alarm?
> 
> ...


When the customer dictates when a job "needs" to be done like "family is coming so this needs to be done by Wednesday", then decides he wants a hairline crack that is dead center in the middle of the ceiling fixed, which means setting up 2 extension ladders and a 13" plank between them to tape and sand. I'm a 1 man show so that that instantly puts me in a time crunch.

It's like the customers priorities are more about convenience than taking more time and doing the job right. Don't know if that's his way of trying to keep the price down but since it's time and materials, as long as his requests are somewhat reasonable I try do make it happen. 

So he ends up getting a couple of walls that are good enough but not great.


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## Lakesidex (Oct 9, 2011)

PACman said:


> is that a skylight to the left in these pictures or just a light fixture?


That's a big window in the upper wall that makes it look like it was put there to show every imperfection in the 2 walls.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Lakesidex said:


> That's a big window in the upper wall that makes it look like it was put there to show every imperfection in the 2 walls.


Architects are good at that! Perfect design! 

But i myself think that flashing will tone down in a week or three. Or four.


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