# Paint Brands?



## TopCut (Apr 28, 2015)

Are there any threads regarding paint _brands_? I still have little experience picking out paint (most of my past has involved paint being supplied) and need to choose a quality paint for an upcoming ceiling job. 

Thanks!


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

TopCut said:


> Are there any threads regarding paint _brands_? I still have little experience picking out paint (most of my past has involved paint being supplied) and need to choose a quality paint for an upcoming ceiling job.
> 
> Thanks!


There's probably hundreds of threads dedicated to preferred paint brands on here, but the search option is not terribly intuitive enough to be helpful.

Lots of people on here would recommend Ben Moore 508 ceiling paint if that's available in your area.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Browsing through the first 5 pages of General can give you a few of those threads. I can save you the time though:

1) Cali and BM most people love but are expensive
2) SW everyone hates but uses anyways because the price
3) Most people hate Behr, and if you buy paint from a box store people won't approve
4) Store brands are terrible, VAlspar should be avoided like the plague
5) Every other paint brand has various supporters and detractors

It's something you just have to learn from experience. But more important than brand name is finding a store that will take care of you through the good and the bad, and that you know the product and its limitations. You can paint with some pretty bad paint, and as long as your technique is good and you're honest with your customers about what exactly they're getting and how long their job will last, you'll be okay.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

I would add that all paint companies sell different grades of paint. Some great, some terrible. Stay away from the bottom of the barrel ones.


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## Admin (Jan 4, 2010)

Moving this discussion to general.


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## TopCut (Apr 28, 2015)

It's weird to hear someone hate on Sherwin-Williams, as that's ALL that's been recommended to me locally by professional painters. Maybe the shops here take good care of their customers, I dunno, but I've been told by two different outfits to get an account ASAP. I also thought it was relatively expensive paint...?

I guess I'll just start with SW and learn as I go. I figured that most name-brands had good and bad product lines, and it's good to hear my suspicion confirmed that store-brands (just like electronics and such) are usually lacking in quality. Strangely enough, I have read a few good things about ACE paint though...

So since this will be my first job providing the paint, is it common to list the exact cost of the paint on the estimate, or just figure it in with supplies? This also might be a dumb question, but I was told that as a business, I could get a discount at SW: if this is true, do you guys usually pass that right through to the customer, or list/charge the paint at a price of 10-15% more (depending on the discount)? 

Thanks again!


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Don't get stuck on using brand X. Find stores with the best service, they all have decent enough paint. Being able to get product when I need it without hassle, and having great service is why we mostly use SWP now.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

TopCut said:


> It's weird to hear someone hate on Sherwin-Williams, as that's ALL that's been recommended to me locally by professional painters. Maybe the shops here take good care of their customers, I dunno, but I've been told by two different outfits to get an account ASAP. I also thought it was relatively expensive paint...?
> 
> I guess I'll just start with SW and learn as I go. I figured that most name-brands had good and bad product lines, and it's good to hear my suspicion confirmed that store-brands (just like electronics and such) are usually lacking in quality. Strangely enough, I have read a few good things about ACE paint though...
> 
> ...


Most people who dislike SW, dislike them for their scummy pricing schemes (yes, you can get a discount, but you'll have to fight them for it, and you'll always know that some other guy is getting a better deal because he fought harder and longer on price) and because they often employ unqualified, inexperienced workers who will flat out give you bad advice. Of course, it varies store by store completely; some stores have awesome people who've been in the industry for decades. Like I said before, it's not about the brand name, it's about which store will take care of you. If you inquire at almost any paint store they should have a contractor program with special pricing and often a year end rebate. That's not a SW thing, it's a paint store in general thing.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

straight_lines said:


> Don't get stuck on using brand X. Find stores with the best service, they all have decent enough paint. Being able to get product when I need it without hassle, and having great service is why we mostly use SWP now.


And not having it around here is why we don't. As Woodford pointed out, YMMV.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Woodford said:


> Most people who dislike SW, dislike them for their scummy pricing schemes (yes, you can get a discount, but you'll have to fight them for it, and you'll always know that some other guy is getting a better deal because he fought harder and longer on price) and because they often employ unqualified, inexperienced workers who will flat out give you bad advice. Of course, it varies store by store completely; some stores have awesome people who've been in the industry for decades. Like I said before, it's not about the brand name, it's about which store will take care of you. If you inquire at almost any paint store they should have a contractor program with special pricing and often a year end rebate. That's not a SW thing, it's a paint store in general thing.


And don't forget, even if SW does quote you a price you will probably never get that price two times in a row. They have a hard time getting pricing consistent, and it's been that way since I started working for them in 1987. It is a constant upkeep thing for the management, so it is often not a big priority for the store people.


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## Roamer (Jul 5, 2010)

We get excellent service from SW. We used to get the same from our BM rep but he was 'consolidated' and now we deal with a guy 90 miles away in Richmond, VA. 

SW will give you pricing commensurate with the quantity that you buy. We buy a lot. 

SW has lines of paint that are suitable for a variety of applications and price points. BM has an ultra premium, a premium and a high grade commercial line so price point can be an issue. 

BM can't compete with SW when it comes to builder grades or commercial grades of paint, it is just not their model or market. If you are doing high end residential then BM has great products, SW is no slouch either in the premium and ultra premium lines.

It is all a matter of what kind of clients that you have and what type of painting you do.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Dunno Roamer, have you tried Ultra Spec recently? For a product that blows everything comparable out of the water, it's priced pretty reasonably imo. But all good points anyways; BM doesn't really have a large portion of the market share for commercial at the moment.

SW pricing is based on more than quantity fwiw, I think we all know that.


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## Surreal Painting (May 10, 2015)

TopCut said:


> It's weird to hear someone hate on Sherwin-Williams, as that's ALL that's been recommended to me locally by professional painters. Maybe the shops here take good care of their customers, I dunno, but I've been told by two different outfits to get an account ASAP. I also thought it was relatively expensive paint...?
> 
> I guess I'll just start with SW and learn as I go. I figured that most name-brands had good and bad product lines, and it's good to hear my suspicion confirmed that store-brands (just like electronics and such) are usually lacking in quality. Strangely enough, I have read a few good things about ACE paint though...
> 
> ...


I started with sherwin. Was ez to setup an account. Prefer cashmere myself. 

Now I'm more open to other products. I feel like Sherwin,ppg,BM,Behr etc etc all have there crap lines and then 1 or 2 good ones. Good is a loose term since thats gonna depend on what your painting and sometimes who your painting for. Some want cheap, some don't. 

Then you find a paint you like... you find out roller covers can affect how that performs and now your using certain covers with certain paints....crazy science. 

Good luck.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Much of your choice is dependent if you are striving for pricing or quality. 

Sometimes local brands, like craft beers, are higher quality but are also higher priced because of the low volume they do.

In my experience, local paints have better service than the mega companies - and service really does count for a lot.

But be aware, not all local brands are necessarily better quality. 

Brand choice really does become a personal choice.


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## Boco (May 18, 2013)

During the slow season I try and get locked in on specific products to get great pricing. Right now I can get Cashmere for about the same price as Promar 200. Same way with Manorhall exterior is about the same as Fortis 450. I play the game between PPG,SW and BM. Shop around and use the products that you like from each brand. The big problem with local stores is they just don't carry enough product in stock.


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

All paint is the same


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## Boco (May 18, 2013)

epretot said:


> All paint is the same


 Go to Walmart and pick up the high test.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Boco said:


> Go to Walmart and pick up the high test.


Thank you, I've never seen those three words ever in the same sentence. 

You've add a whole new echelon to the concept of oxymoronic


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

epretot said:


> All paint is the same


I just did a job, the customer already had the paint.
This is it. Covers like a glove. Pick it up at Lowes... 
Even daArch would like this stuff.
More profit baby! :jester:


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## The Cutting Edge (May 25, 2014)

Well I'm sure the box store haters are gonna pounce on this. Ive been using Valspar Duramax on my exteriors and reserve on my interiors all this year. I used duration and super paint for years but after they sent the manager and assistant manager to another store for the third time in 5 yrs I was out. The new manager came in and changed my pricing on duration and had hardly any knowledge on paints and applications. I have a great relationship with the Valspar rep and call him any time. I call it in and its waiting by the check out. The duramax goes on thick and bridges cracks like no other Ive used and the reserve goes on like butter and covers awesome. Haters unite.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

PaintersUnite said:


> I just did a job, the customer already had the paint.
> This is it. Covers like a glove. Pick it up at Lowes...
> Even daArch would like this stuff.
> More profit baby! :jester:


$20 a gallon

gotta be HIGH quality stuff right there for sure:laughing:

you are one funny guy


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Roamer said:


> We get excellent service from SW. We used to get the same from our BM rep but he was 'consolidated' and now we deal with a guy 90 miles away in Richmond, VA.
> 
> SW will give you pricing commensurate with the quantity that you buy. We buy a lot.
> 
> ...


name one that would compare to say , Aura?


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

The Cutting Edge said:


> *Well I'm sure the box store haters are gonna pounce on this.* Ive been using Valspar Duramax on my exteriors and reserve on my interiors all this year. I used duration and super paint for years but after they sent the manager and assistant manager to another store for the third time in 5 yrs I was out. The new manager came in and changed my pricing on duration and had hardly any knowledge on paints and applications. I have a great relationship with the Valspar rep and call him any time. I call it in and its waiting by the check out. *The duramax goes on thick and bridges cracks like no other Ive used* and the reserve goes on like butter and covers awesome. Haters unite.


How many days do these cracks reappear?

I don't hate you for shopping at box stores.


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

PaintersUnite said:


> *I just did a job, the customer already had the paint.*
> This is it. Covers like a glove. Pick it up at Lowes...
> Even daArch would like this stuff.
> *More profit baby!* :jester:


The jester icon means you are being completely ironic here, yes?

Because we all know when the customer provides paint, contractor can't markup, so that literally means less profit on a job, yes?


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## Roamer (Jul 5, 2010)

chrisn said:


> name one that would compare to say , Aura?


SW's Emerald.



Woodford said:


> Dunno Roamer, have you tried Ultra Spec recently?


Our price point for Harmony beats our price for Ultra Spec. We are also happy with Promar 200 Zero.

We use a fair amount of BM. Typically, our clients' choose the brand. We offer that our favorite brands are SW and BM and then let the client decide.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

PaintersUnite said:


> I just did a job, the customer already had the paint.
> This is it. Covers like a glove. Pick it up at Lowes...
> Even daArch would like this stuff.
> More profit baby! :jester:


If you are trying to make profit by marking the paint up maybe you are in the wrong side of the business.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

The Cutting Edge said:


> Well I'm sure the box store haters are gonna pounce on this. Ive been using Valspar Duramax on my exteriors and reserve on my interiors all this year. I used duration and super paint for years but after they sent the manager and assistant manager to another store for the third time in 5 yrs I was out. The new manager came in and changed my pricing on duration and had hardly any knowledge on paints and applications. I have a great relationship with the Valspar rep and call him any time. I call it in and its waiting by the check out. The duramax goes on thick and bridges cracks like no other Ive used and the reserve goes on like butter and covers awesome. Haters unite.


Wow. The Duramax I put on my sanded, wood garage door last spring is peeling already. Two coats per label directions. maybe they have a souped up version at the lowe's you shop at or something.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

chrisn said:


> $20 a gallon
> 
> gotta be HIGH quality stuff right there for sure:laughing:
> 
> you are one funny guy


Is this what people are comparing Behr too? I wonder.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

This has been a very enlightening thread.


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## AlphaWolf (Nov 23, 2014)

No mention of Dulux at all. As of late there my go to Supplier.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

chrisn said:


> name one that would compare to say , Aura?


Dulux Diamond goes on nicer than aura. I'm about to find out how it stands up in day to day life against it too


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

AlphaWolf said:


> No mention of Dulux at all. As of late there my go to Supplier.


Dulux isn't in the states. Some areas have ICI, but I don't believe they're everywhere


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

journeymanPainter said:


> Dulux isn't in the states. Some areas have ICI, but I don't believe they're everywhere


I really really wish I had an ICI closer to me. When I lived in Vancouver I got all my gear there. Never used their paint, but apparently I'm using Dulux exterior later today on a door for the first time. Crazy lady customer with shaved eyebrows insisted on getting her own paint.

Where am I finding these people?


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

AlphaWolf said:


> No mention of Dulux at all. As of late there my go to Supplier.


No more Dulux in 'Merica. Just Canada and everywhere else on earth.
PPG turned all the 'merican ICI/Dulux stores back into Glidden stores selling Glidden paint. Imagine that.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Wildbill7145 said:


> I really really wish I had an ICI closer to me. When I lived in Vancouver I got all my gear there. Never used their paint, but apparently I'm using Dulux exterior later today on a door for the first time. Crazy lady customer with shaved eyebrows insisted on getting her own paint.
> 
> Where am I finding these people?


I can't behr to think what she would have bought if she were in the states!


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Proalliance coatings said:


> I can't behr to think what she would have bought if she were in the states!


Not sure how this is going to work out. Her husband owns the local hunting supply and gun store. I told her I wanted to get my own paint, she insisted she already bought the paint. I just found out it's a deep red.

If I stop posting on here after today, I'm probably being buried in the woods.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Not sure how this is going to work out. Her husband owns the local hunting supply and gun store. I told her I wanted to get my own paint, she insisted she already bought the paint. I just found out it's a deep red.
> 
> If I stop posting on here after today, I'm probably being buried in the woods.


Like this woman ?

_*Bear mauls woman, covers her up to eat her later *_


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## PPM (May 5, 2015)

Proalliance coatings said:


> No more Dulux in 'Merica. Just Canada and everywhere else on earth.
> PPG turned all the 'merican ICI/Dulux stores back into Glidden stores selling Glidden paint. Imagine that.


Not exactly.

Akzo did that when they owned Dulux/Glidden before the PPG buyout, actually quite a few years before, which I believe was a mistake. Glidden may resonate with homeowners, but the crowd Akzo was trying to cater to, contractors, DESPISE that name (as we can see in this thread). The products themselves under the old Glidden Pro label were actually pretty good. 

The Dulux Diamond is Glidden Diamond/Fortis 450 here in the US. Dulux Ultra is Glidden Diamond/Fortis 350 in 'Murica speak. Both good paints. 

All of the Glidden stores are now PPG Paints stores, there are (or will be), no more Glidden stores. The products will be labeled as PPG Diamond, or PPG Ultrahide etc, the one's PPG doesn't kill that is.


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## Shakey0818 (Feb 1, 2012)

epretot said:


> All paint is the same


I agree.I have used many of the top name brand paints from BM to Valspar and everything in between.IMO it's all in the prep.Painters disagree but look at consumer reports as well as other ratings.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Shakey0818 said:


> look at consumer reports.


That doesn't make your somewhat untenable position any more believable. There's quantifiable differences in paint that can be gleaned just from the basic information in the TDS. Unfortunately, you not being able to tell the difference doesn't mean there isn't one.

Edit: And, as Bill mentioned, I think Epretot was kidding.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

There is absolutely no way all paints are the same. I'm pretty sure Eprotot was kidding when he said that. That being said, it's already been mentioned in this thread that all paint companies make crap lines of paint and their top of the line products.

I've used Superspec by BM and I could have put more colour on the walls if I peed on them. It was like water.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

I'm not unhappy to see Super Spec be replaced


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Woodford said:


> I'm not unhappy to see Super Spec be replaced


What did they replace it with? I tend not to look that far down the list.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Ultra Spec. It's waterborne and Gennex tinted. I'd actually recommend giving it a shot; for doing jobs like apartments, condos, or new construction it's really a great option. It's also VOC free, which is nice if you ever bid on schools or hospitals and such that are budget conscious and need VOC free paints.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Nope. all the same. Just like beer. Just buy the cheapest you can find that will get you drunk. What the hell.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Proalliance coatings said:


> Just like beer. Just buy the cheapest you can find that will get you drunk. What the hell.


I was going to mention this exact point earlier. But didn't bother.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Wildbill7145 said:


> I really really wish I had an ICI closer to me. When I lived in Vancouver I got all my gear there. Never used their paint, but apparently I'm using Dulux exterior later today on a door for the first time. Crazy lady customer with shaved eyebrows insisted on getting her own paint.
> 
> Where am I finding these people?


Lol. You been passing out business cards at the carnival?


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

I paint paint said:


> The jester icon means you are being completely ironic here, yes?
> 
> Because we all know when the customer provides paint, contractor can't markup, so that literally means less profit on a job, yes?


You're good!


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

chrisn said:


> $20 a gallon
> 
> gotta be HIGH quality stuff right there for sure:laughing:
> 
> *you are one funny guy*


$20 a gallon. 

Think about all those Peanut Butter & Jelly sandwich's you can make with your profits?


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

$20 per gallon.

If you're feeling cheap, it covers in 3 coats - orange. :blink:
Green, 2 coats. 

Customer was happy, happy, happy! :thumbsup:


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

Wildbill7145 said:


> There is absolutely no way all paints are the same. I'm pretty sure Eprotot was kidding when he said that. That being said, it's already been mentioned in this thread that all paint companies make crap lines of paint and their top of the line products.
> 
> I've used Superspec by BM and I could have put more colour on the walls if I peed on them. It was like water.


Let me clarify. All paint is made of the same ingredients.

You girls need to stop pissing and moaning and just use what you want. 

I couldn't care less what chrisn thinks of sw. I like proclassic oil. He likes aura. 

I will use proclassic oil to pay my bills.

Im sure there is something better. I still don't care. 

Clarified.


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

Wildbill,

I wasnt attacking you. You're in my fav 5


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

epretot said:


> Let me clarify. All paint is made of the same ingredients.
> 
> You *girls* need to stop *pissing and moaning* and just use what you want.
> 
> ...


We need a new brand of paint for the girls, *"Cry Baby Premium Paints"*! Zero VOC, covers in (1) coat, applies itself while you are on break, lifetime warranty. 

Somebody Patent that idea quick! :brows:


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Not sure how this is going to work out. Her husband owns the local hunting supply and gun store. I told her I wanted to get my own paint, she insisted she already bought the paint. I just found out it's a deep red.
> 
> If I stop posting on here after today, I'm probably being buried in the woods.


Make sure it's there accent base. 

We did a house in a deep red last summer in Weathergaurd flat and it covered like a dream, but accent comes in a red and yellow base.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

epretot said:


> Wildbill,
> 
> I wasnt attacking you. You're in my fav 5


where I came from, being attacked MEANT you were a top fave :whistling2:


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

Anyone who can guess my fav 5 gets a 20.00 amazon gift card


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## Boco (May 18, 2013)

PPGs paint has electrolytes. That's what walls crave.


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## GoTime (Jul 2, 2013)

I like money


Boco said:


> PPGs paint has electrolytes. That's what walls crave.


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

I like cherry cordial ice cream. A lot.

What's your favorite ice cream.


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

I like my cordials ice cold. A lot.

What's your favorite proof?


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

epretot said:


> Anyone who can guess my fav 5 gets a 20.00 amazon gift card


I am guessing I am not there


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

epretot said:


> I like cherry cordial ice cream. A lot.
> 
> What's your favorite ice cream.


rocky road:thumbsup:


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

PaintersUnite said:


> We need a new brand of paint for the girls, *"Cry Baby Premium Paints"*! Zero VOC, covers in (1) coat, applies itself while you are on break, lifetime warranty.
> 
> Somebody Patent that idea quick! :brows:


I think the bear has that locked up with Olympic and Valspar a close second


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Wildbill7145 said:


> I was going to mention this exact point earlier. But didn't bother.


You should know me by now.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

PaintersUnite said:


> We need a new brand of paint for the girls, *"Cry Baby Premium Paints"*! Zero VOC, covers in (1) coat, applies itself while you are on break, lifetime warranty.
> 
> Somebody Patent that idea quick! :brows:


Sounds like Marquee to me! Maybe they should slap a contractor label on it since it does everything by itself. Heck you can ballet dance while you paint that stuff.


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## Roamer (Jul 5, 2010)

Proalliance coatings said:


> Nope. all the same. Just like beer. Just buy the cheapest you can find that will get you drunk. What the hell.


Funny you use beer as a comparison. Consumer Reports rated Milwakee's Best as the best domestic beer in America.

I think their ratings are all about bang for your buck. Cheap beer does the same thing for you as an expensive craft brew.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

I think the point was that most folks don't buy beer JUST for the buzz, and thus paint should not be bought with a similar purpose, to just have a cheap, short lived appearance. 

Cheap beer does NOT do the same for me as good craft beer, but I don't drink for the drunk, nor paint for the short lived appearance.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

I think the point was that most folks don't buy beer JUST for the buzz, and thus paint should not be bought with a similar purpose, to just have a cheap, short lived appearance. 

Cheap beer does NOT do the same for me as good craft beer, but I don't drink for the drunk, nor paint for the short lived appearance or check in the account.


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## Roamer (Jul 5, 2010)

Exactly. Thus, Consumer Reports needs to be taken with a grain of salt or at least a ton of common sense.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Roamer said:


> Funny you use beer as a comparison. Consumer Reports rated Milwakee's Best as the best domestic beer in America.
> 
> I think their ratings are all about bang for your buck. Cheap beer does the same thing for you as an expensive craft brew.


It gets you drunk just the same. So why pay more? You just have to drink a little more of it and you are more likely to have a horrible hangover the next day. Just like cheap paint. Just have to put more coats on. Just more labor expense that's all. And who cares if it needs redone in a few years? Just more work.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

daArch said:


> I think the point was that most folks don't buy beer JUST for the buzz, and thus paint should not be bought with a similar purpose, to just have a cheap, short lived appearance.
> 
> Cheap beer does NOT do the same for me as good craft beer, but I don't drink for the drunk, nor paint for the short lived appearance or check in the account.


For a second there I thought I was having Deja-vu all over again.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Roamer said:


> Exactly. Thus, Consumer Reports needs to be taken with a grain of salt or at least a ton of common sense.


WHAT! You mean......
Behr ISN"T the best paint on earth? WTH!


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

...and here I was thinking Consumer Reports were THE final word on paint quality.


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## FreshLookPainting (May 25, 2015)

The Cutting Edge said:


> Well I'm sure the box store haters are gonna pounce on this. Ive been using Valspar Duramax on my exteriors and reserve on my interiors all this year. I used duration and super paint for years but after they sent the manager and assistant manager to another store for the third time in 5 yrs I was out. The new manager came in and changed my pricing on duration and had hardly any knowledge on paints and applications. I have a great relationship with the Valspar rep and call him any time. I call it in and its waiting by the check out. The duramax goes on thick and bridges cracks like no other Ive used and the reserve goes on like butter and covers awesome. Haters unite.



I am curious about tuus... you get a Valpar rep in your area to service your needs? This doesn't compute in my area..and I was good friends with the area rep. He would only service the Lowe's stores..when I was running the biggest paint depth in the district for Lowe's I tried to implement more involvement with them and the contractor..was stonewalled. Never understood that


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

Woodford said:


> *Ultra Spec*. It's waterborne and Gennex tinted. I'd actually recommend giving it a shot; for doing jobs like apartments, condos, or new construction *it's really a great option*. It's also VOC free, which is nice if you ever bid on schools or hospitals and such that are budget conscious and need VOC free paints.


And BEHR sucks? Please! :whistling2:


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

Proalliance coatings said:


> WHAT! You mean......
> Behr ISN"T the best paint on earth? WTH!


The only BEHR sucks argument, according to some PT members, is because it is sold at Home Depot. 

Can you give me 5 valid tech reasons / and provide proof, why """ALL BEHR""" products are not worthy? 

And please leave out, "because it's sold at home depot".


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

FreshLookPainting said:


> I am curious about tuus... you get a Valpar rep in your area to service your needs? This doesn't compute in my area..and I was good friends with the area rep. He would only service the Lowe's stores..when I was running the biggest paint depth in the district for Lowe's I tried to implement more involvement with them and the contractor..was stonewalled. Never understood that


You don't get it? Let me spell it out for you

P-r-o-f-i-t m-a-r-g-i-n



Ain't it amazing that these supposed marketing geniuses could not grasp the long term profitability if they at least gave the appearance of giving a crap. But no, the bean counters in their little isolated-from-the-real-world bunkers say it's too much out flow vs inflow.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

PaintersUnite said:


> And BEHR sucks? Please! :whistling2:


Did you make this yourself or did you find it on the web?


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

PaintersUnite said:


> The only BEHR sucks argument, according to some PT members, is because it is sold at Home Depot.
> 
> Can you give me 5 valid tech reasons / and provide proof, why """ALL BEHR""" products are not worthy?
> 
> And please leave out, "because it's sold at home depot".


I didn't say it sucked. I said that it isn't the best paint on earth, as consumer reports would like to have everyone believe.

And Home depot is a great place to check prices on paint supplies. I can spend a couple of hours walking around checking prices without having an employee bother me. It's great!


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

I also like cookies and cream. 

However, i prefer to put the oreos in myself. I find the premade cookies and cream renders the cookies soft. While i appreciate tha some prefer the cookies soft, i prefer them to be crunchy. Plus, i get ro comtrol the ratio of ice cream to cookies. 

Another reason for preferring to make my own is, i dont trust that the manufacturer is using genuine oreo cookies. They often taste like generic chocolate sandwich cookies. Those are gross.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

PaintersUnite said:


> The only BEHR sucks argument, according to some PT members, is because it is sold at Home Depot.
> 
> Can you give me 5 valid tech reasons / and provide proof, why """ALL BEHR""" products are not worthy?
> 
> And please leave out, "because it's sold at home depot".


 :blink:


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

*Oh yeah?*


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

And another thing!


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

PaintersUnite said:


> The only BEHR sucks argument, according to some PT members, is *because it is sold at Home Depot.*
> 
> Can you give me 5 valid tech reasons / and provide proof, why """ALL BEHR""" products are not worthy?
> 
> And please leave out, *"because it's sold at home depot"*.


So you understand the principled opposition to Home Depot many PT members, and many non-PT members have.

But you disagree with it. Why?

Because they happen to sell a paint you like?

That seems very short sighted.


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## Boco (May 18, 2013)

Behr exterior sprays like ass and is hard to avoid lap marks. Also was in the mid $30s per gal. If you are into economy paints try PPGs speedhide exterior. Its less then $12 per gal and spreads like butter. On top of that the sqft coverage is the highest I have seen. Plus PPg delivers to jobsite. No lines no waiting.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

PaintersUnite said:


> The only BEHR sucks argument, according to some PT members, is because it is sold at Home Depot.
> 
> Can you give me 5 valid tech reasons / and provide proof, why """ALL BEHR""" products are not worthy?
> 
> And please leave out, "because it's sold at home depot".


It doesn't do what they advertise. 
It touches up like a$$
It's not paint and primer, it's self priming (big difference) 
I can't trust the person behind the counter (same reason I avoid certain Dulux stores )
It's not washable, its not scrubable. 

Once again, will I use it? Yes
Will I buy it? No
Will I recommend it? Not on your life


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## The Cutting Edge (May 25, 2014)

FreshLookPainting said:


> I am curious about tuus... you get a Valpar rep in your area to service your needs? This doesn't compute in my area..and I was good friends with the area rep. He would only service the Lowe's stores..when I was running the biggest paint depth in the district for Lowe's I tried to implement more involvement with them and the contractor..was stonewalled. Never understood that


My guys been great. I did an exterior a while back in 2 colors. The paint for the trim was thin and wasn't right. I text him to let him know and he called me in minutes gave me new paint and pulled that batch off the shelves that day. He's brought me 25 gal in the trunk of his car when the trucks couldn't get it there fast enough. Don't get me wrong its not all candy canes and rainbows. If I don't get it called in by 5 and have to go pick it up for the next day god knows what moron your gonna get behind the counter. That part of its almost too much. The price for the quality is worth it to me. I think all the different brands have the crap and the good stuff and my experience is that valspars good stuff is good stuff. When I first started painting I used Baer because that's what the contractor supplied. I thought then it was pretty good stuff and it may be. Last week I had to paint a textured bedroom with it and omfg I had to work way too hard. If ever have to touch it again gonna go 50% Baer and 50% floetrol. If you have a painter in training make them use Baer. When they get good with that everything else will be a walk in the park.


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## cody o'mick (Jul 2, 2015)

My top 3 paints are:

BM Ben™ (flat walls, semi gloss)

SW Cashmere (satin, try to talk customers out of eggshell and use this instead) 

*ceilings only* (Laugh all you want it's fine) Colorchoice, white (available at walmart) *ceilings only*


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

PaintersUnite said:


> And another thing!


ok joe, aka A.F.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

I have a way to make PT better.

Add *B*h** to the list of censored words :thumbsup:

Or better yet, a script that will auto delete a post that contains the word _*B*h**_

OR, the BEST approach, any person that mentions it, goes on a LOOOOONG vacation

:thumbup: :yes: :notworthy: :thumbup1:


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

Here's one for Woodford :whistling2:


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

journeymanPainter said:


> It doesn't do what they advertise.
> It touches up like a$$
> It's not paint and primer, it's self priming (big difference)
> I can't trust the person behind the counter (same reason I avoid certain Dulux stores )
> ...


I don't agree with you at all.

Oddly, you speak of BEHR, like it is only a "one" product brand. 
Ever try this specific product? I'm willing to bet, the answer is no. And that goes for daArch as well.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

daArch said:


> I have a way to make PT better.
> 
> Add *B*h** to the list of censored words :thumbsup:
> 
> ...


You need to learn how to ignore the stuff you have no interest in. 
You and I are from the USA, not Russia.

Stick with that silly, I hate When.......... thread. You are leading the pack over there. :jester:

Happy 4th.


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## The Cutting Edge (May 25, 2014)

Do they stock that at the store or is it special order? Never seen it stocked at the store myself. What's it run a gallon?


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

PaintersUnite said:


> I don't agree with you at all.
> 
> Oddly, you speak of BEHR, like it is only a "one" product brand.
> Ever try this specific product? I'm willing to bet, the answer is no. And that goes for daArch as well.


PU that's fine you don't agree with me, but a primer isn't a paint, and a paint isn't a primer. If you don't agree with me read the TDS of both, if you don't understand the difference in what they do/performance/etc then I'd suggest going to trade school to find out the difference. 

I've used about 6 different behr products, and I stick to my original assessment. Marque did not cover in one coat (over a similar colour no less). I also like how you didn't disagree with the paint touching up like a$$.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

journeymanPainter said:


> I can't trust the person behind the counter
> Will I recommend it? Not on your life




I never had a problem getting paints from home depot. Walk in; "I would like [sage green] 5 mins later, I walk out the door with [sage green]. I am experience enough as a painter, that I don't need advice from any paint sales clerk.
I would recommend it in a heartbeat. I never had a dissatisfied customer using BEHR - ever.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

PaintersUnite said:


> I never had a problem getting paints from home depot. Walk in; "I would like [sage green] 5 mins later, I walk out the door with [sage green]. I am experience enough as a painter, that I don't need advice from any paint sales clerk.
> I would recommend it in a heartbeat. I never had a dissatisfied customer using BEHR - ever.


Maybe we cater to two completely different clientele then. 

Most of my customers pull in the mid 6 figures +, Homes in the millions, etc.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

journeymanPainter said:


> PU that's fine you don't agree with me, but a primer isn't a paint, and a paint isn't a primer. If you don't agree with me read the TDS of both, *if you don't understand the difference in what they do/performance/etc then I'd suggest going to trade school to find out the difference. *
> 
> I've used about 6 different behr products, and I stick to my original assessment. Marque did not cover in one coat (over a similar colour no less). I also like how you didn't disagree with the paint touching up like a$$.


Journeyman, I was a Journeyman back in 1986 for the painters union. Long before you ever picked up a paint brush. Since then, I have become a master of this trade with 35 years exp., under my belt. You need to go back to school and take a chemistry class. 

BTW, here is the TDS that you didn't read. http://www.behr.com/cma/BehrPro/Marketing/Products/TDS/4450_R1014.pdf


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

journeymanPainter said:


> Maybe we cater to two completely different clientele then.
> 
> *Most of my customers pull in the mid 6 figures +, Homes in the millions, etc.*


Yea, I do them too. 

This foyer is wainscot. So you are looking at drywall. 
The finish is like furniture. Extreme level 5 finish, sprayed), sanded with 320 grit sand paper, and in between coats of paint, sanded with 400 and 600 grit sand paper. This was SW cashmere.


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## cody o'mick (Jul 2, 2015)

PaintersUnite said:


> Yea, I do them too.
> 
> This foyer is wainscot. So you are looking at drywall.
> The finish is like furniture. Extreme level 5 finish, sprayed), sanded with 320 grit sand paper, and in between coats of paint, sanded with 400 and 600 grit sand paper. This was SW cashmere.


nice looking work.

that being said 

porter paint is the worst paint, since lowes quit making enterprise 12 year.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

PaintersUnite said:


> Journeyman, I was a Journeyman back in 1986 for the painters union. Long before you ever picked up a paint brush. Since then, I have become a master of this trade with 35 years exp., under my belt. You need to go back to school and take a chemistry class.
> 
> BTW, here is the TDS that you didn't read. http://www.behr.com/cma/BehrPro/Marketing/Products/TDS/4450_R1014.pdf


:laughing:


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

journeymanPainter said:


> I've used about 6 different behr products, and I stick to my original assessment. Marque did not cover in one coat (over a similar colour no less). I also like how you didn't disagree with the paint touching up like a$$.


Who cares? or, maybe you are one of those *scrub it on painters* Oden spoke of? 

I do 99.99% repaints, so there is never a need for me to do touch-ups. 
And no matter what the product is, I try to avoid doing touch ups, as I believe that no matter what brand of paint you use, you will see touch ups, with ANY product that is not a *dead flat*.

BEHR ULTRA, is an enamel. So if you expect to do a 2 sq ft touch up, in the middle of a wall, well, you will see it. However, that doesn't make the paint good or bad paint. Therefore, your argument is moot. That's why I didn't answer your question.

FYI - if you need to do touch ups, if the wall was rolled, always touch up with a roller, never a brush. If the spot is a 1" mark, don't roll out a sq ft. I recommend dabbing just the 1" area with the corner of the roller.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

I've found the BM gennex colorant paints, which now is most of them, touch up extremely well. Even in dark colors in eggshell. I can touchup in the middle of a wall and not be able to see where it was. and I've been blessed / cursed to be able to see every little imperfection.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

PaintersUnite said:


> Who cares? or, maybe you are one of those *scrub it on painters* Oden spoke of?
> 
> I do 99.99% repaints, so there is never a need for me to do touch-ups.
> And no matter what the product is, I try to avoid doing touch ups, as I believe that no matter what brand of paint you use, you will see touch ups, with ANY product that is not a *dead flat*.
> ...


 explain that rickie


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

cody o'mick said:


> nice looking work.
> 
> that being said
> 
> porter paint is the worst paint, since lowes quit making enterprise 12 year.


Lowe's didn't make enterprise, Valspar did. And they just re-labelled it like they did American Traditions and the middle line.

And if you have used nothing but Porter's cheap paint lines, like any other companies' paint it is cheap also. I don't know why anyone thinks any paint brands cheap crap is any better than any other cheap crap. Mud is mud bro!

And if you think Enterprise was bad and Porter is bad you need to take a trip east on 5th avenue past the PPG store and stop in at Yenkin-Majestic for some paint. My gypsy barn painters won't touch the stuff at any price.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

Damon T said:


> I've found the BM gennex colorant paints, which now is most of them, touch up extremely well. Even in dark colors in eggshell. I can touchup in the middle of a wall and not be able to see where it was. and I've been blessed / cursed to be able to see every little imperfection.


I find that touch ups are most visible, on the side walls of windows, looking on an angle, into the light. I have eyes like a hulk. I'd like to inspect.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Pure gold, this thread. Pure. Gold.

People thinking paint is primer because the TDS _descriptive text_ says so. Completely ignoring the fact that the ingredients in paint and primer are completely different. Too bad you only read the unimportant part of the TDS rather than the parts that actually mean something. Too bad you're so convinced that you don't need a rep; if you actually asked one, they'd tell you that "paint and primer in one" is a myth. They're two different things. Yes, paint can be self-priming but that doesn't make it a primer. It's a shame you're so convinced you don't need to learn any more; there's a lot of interesting information out there! If you put the ingredients of primer into paint it would fail. Same thing the other way around. They aren't made from the same materials and aren't compatible.

It must be such a bland world for you, PU. I find _not_ knowing everything drives me to be a better person, to strive for more. To be so self-satisfied that I knew everything would take all the meaning out of life.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

PaintersUnite said:


> I find that touch ups are most visible, on the side walls of windows, looking on an angle, into the light. I have eyes like a hulk. I'd like to inspect.


I agree with you on the touchup thing. It all depends on how well the client can see or how picky they are. I have rarely seen any paint that can actually "touch-up" to the satisfaction of everyone. Dead flats are the ones that most often work, that's a big reason why they are used in new construction most of the time.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Woodford said:


> Pure gold, this thread. Pure. Gold.
> 
> People thinking paint is primer because the TDS _descriptive text_ says so. Completely ignoring the fact that the ingredients in paint and primer are completely different. Too bad you only read the unimportant part of the TDS rather than the parts that actually mean something. Too bad you're so convinced that you don't need a rep; if you actually asked one, they'd tell you that "paint and primer in one" is a myth. They're two different things. Yes, paint can be self-priming but that doesn't make it a primer. It's a shame you're so convinced you don't need to learn any more; there's a lot of interesting information out there! If you put the ingredients of primer into paint it would fail. Same thing the other way around. They aren't made from the same materials and aren't compatible.
> 
> It must be such a bland world for you, PU. I find _not_ knowing everything drives me to be a better person, to strive for more. To be so self-satisfied that I knew everything would take all the meaning out of life.


hey why do you suppose Zinssers' sales volume is up this year if paint and primer really works? And why do the Behr retailers (HD!) have a 20 foot section dedicated to primers? And why do so many people I deal with buy primer or ask me if they need a primer?

And why am I about to spend several thousand dollars I really can't afford to spend to get the Insulex primer in my store? Wouldn't I be better off becoming a Dutch Boy dealer so I can stock all of their miracle paint and primers? Huh. Now I'm confused. (NOT!)


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Congrats, the INSL-X stuff are great products. I'd have them if I had room.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Juice is on sale !


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Woodford said:


> Congrats, the INSL-X stuff are great products. I'd have them if I had room.


It's my next little step in my world paint selling domination scheme. OOPS! That was supposed to be a secret.

My intention is to sell all of the good paints available on the market. I have the P&L and Cali. Next up is BM, Coronado, Lenmar, and Corotech. Then, I bring in Muralo and Graham. When the big three crap paint/over hyped bubble bursts, I'll be rich!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

TJ Paint said:


> Juice is on sale !


So is it .69 cents or 2 for $5.00? Even they can't get their crap together! 

Also-empty shelves? This is or used to be the first rule of retail. Keep the dang shelves as full as possible! If you are buying from a paint store that isn't stocking or front facing their shelves everyday, they are very poorly trained and/or not properly motivated!

Goes for juice too!


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Proalliance coatings said:


> So is it .69 cents or 2 for $5.00? Even they can't get their crap together!
> 
> Also-empty shelves? This is or used to be the first rule of retail. Keep the dang shelves as full as possible! If you are buying from a paint store that isn't stocking or front facing their shelves everyday, they are very poorly trained and/or not properly motivated!
> 
> Goes for juice too!


This grocery store is horrible, but they don't seem to care. There's no competition either...


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

TJ Paint said:


> This grocery store is horrible, but they don't seem to care. There's no competition either...


That's pretty much the norm now. The Walmart in my town hasn't had the big box of sugar free fudgesicles I buy in the freezer over a weekend for going on 6 months now. It's empty every week by Friday and it never gets restocked on the weekend. And Walmart wonders why they are losing market share!


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

DrakeB said:


> It must be such a bland world for you, PU. I find _not_ knowing everything drives me to be a better person, to strive for more. To be so self-satisfied that I knew everything would take all the meaning out of life.


I don't know Drake, I am busy rewiring a guitar from scratch and working in my recording studio, and reading them 400 page software manuals. Yawn! :whistling2: Keep reading them Paint TDS and pass on all that knowledge.


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

The first interesting turn of events in this thread. Subject so deplorable Woodford decided to take his name of off it?

Maybe I should have better ventilated the ammoniated smelling 123 today? Am I seeing DrakeB things?


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

TJ Paint said:


> Juice is on sale !





Proalliance coatings said:


> So is it .69 cents or 2 for $5.00? Even they can't get their crap together!
> 
> Also-empty shelves? This is or used to be the first rule of retail. Keep the dang shelves as full as possible! If you are buying from a paint store that isn't stocking or front facing their shelves everyday, they are very poorly trained and/or not properly motivated!
> 
> Goes for juice too!


I apologize, I in part created the confusion. The 69 cent price is for the smaller box juice, which my son calls "dog juice". The 2 for 5 is the larger juice, which I'm holding in my hand and elevated that package in line with the dog juice. But, they were both good deals and I bought both!


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

TJ Paint said:


> I apologize, I in part created the confusion. The 69 cent price is for *the smaller box juice, which my son calls "dog juice".* The 2 for 5 is the larger juice, which I'm holding in my hand and elevated that package in line with the dog juice. But, they were both good deals and I bought both!


My son is adorable too. He asks for "Jeeeews."

If he ever adopted your son's formulation, I might have an ugly Borat situation to contend with.

But so far it is just appil jeeeews, Oorange jeeeews, and my favorite: wat-ter jeeeews.


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## Aafordable coating (Jul 7, 2015)

Hey how you all doing. I am trying to start my own painting contracting company. Any good affordable sprayer could guide me to


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

paint zoom, only $99.99:whistling2:


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## Jazz_Painter (Feb 22, 2015)

I have used behr ultra premium (their top product before the marquee) because a HO bought it for their house and I found that it worked fine. I haven't used marquee, but I've heard bad things about it. Let's forget the one coat thing, is it good paint when applying 2 coats? Consumer magazines vouch often for behr paint and their tests seem to prove their products are more washable than other brands. I don't know what's so bad about Behr, but I don't buy it myself.

I have used most BM products interior, Super Spec, Ultra Spec, Eco Spec, Ben, Regal and Aura. My only issues with the SS and US are that the paint splatters a lot more, so you really need to protect the areas well. I really like the Eco Spec Eggshell for walls, but didn't like their ceiling flat. Good thing with the Eco Spec is that you can get good contractor discounts for it as it's considerd contractor line (such as the other Specs) I like Ben (I get a good price on it too), Regal and Aura too. Thing is Regal and Aura you won't get a decent discount on them even if you buy huge amount of BM paint each year. Even with Regal using extender, I get flashing in more sensitive situations (i.e. a staircase wall alongside the light coming from the entrance door), the paints all dry so fast now that flashing seems to be unavoidable, even when proper rolling technique is applied. Aura looks fine when proper applied properly (applies differently than other paints), but is still sensitive to flashing. Great finish though and quite washable I found.

I do agree with the touch up issue, I've never witnessed a touch up in the middle of a wall with a sheen (eggshell) not be apparent. If it's close to an edge, trim, or door, then it might be ok, but there's always flashing happening.

I like the Insl-x primers, so do I like Zinsser.

I've heard great things about the Dulux exterior paint, as journey vouches often for those products.

I like PPG pure performance for a mid level product. It can be a good alternative to Eco Spec.

For ceilings the best out there is K508, but even with this expensive product it's not perfect : I did a big and low ceiling of an open area (kitchen, living room, dining room, entrance) with lots of light coming in from the glass doors and windows and I could see some roller lines when looking from one side of the area.

If no need for color (other than white) or extra sensitive situations, I like using the PPG premium ceiling paint as it's priced quite low and delivers well. 

Here in province of Quebec a popular brand is Betonel. It's only sold in stores of the same name. Those stores are where you can buy Glidden and Dulux products as well. Of course it's all owned by PPG now. Betonel isn't bad paint, but I have a hard time with their price policy. They sell their top line at around 65$ a gallon (CAD), but high volume contractors can get 50% off. At 30-35$ a gallon it's good paint, but at 65$ you're just getting ripped off. Which mean that if you resell it to your customer at that price, you're basically ripping them off. In no means it's comparable to Regal at that price point. Thing with Betonel too is that almost everybody gets a discount of some sort (if your part of some associations, etc...). You can also buy the paint under the number of a contractor that gets the good discount and pay the contractor's price.

I personnally get my paint at a hardware store that specialises in paint products. I have access to PPG, BM, Sico, California Stain, Livos, Sansin, WoodPlus, and more.

I have used Sherwin on contracts where the customer bought the paint. I like one of their ceiling flat that was reasonably priced (don't remember which one it was Promar 400 I think). I must say that their cheap primer (PVA drywall primer) had such terrible adhesion on previous paint or plaster repairs that I'd say it's a crime to sell that product to anybody.


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