# How to make yellow cover in two coats.



## High Glosser (Dec 7, 2011)

Any suggestions on how to make a yellowish tan color cover over an existing beige color in two coats verses three. I bid a re-paint for two coats of finish and it is looking like it is going to take three which will kill my profits. I have too much pride to go back to homeowner to ask for more money and I think it is bad business to do so. This is starting to happen to me more often as I am seeing more people move from beige colors to yellowish, green and orange colors. 
We tried going with a a half tint stain blocking primer but it doesn't seem to help. I know grey color primers can help with reds but I am at a loss with yellows?


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Use a yellow based product. Same with red. Use a real red base. Skip the grey primer.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Oh, to beat the rest of the regulars, 

Just use aura.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Aura


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

From the colors you describe, I don't even see why this is an issue? Seems like an easy standard 2 coat finish.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Yellows are difficult, try Aura.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

He said a yellowish tan, not even a yellow - the tan part makes me think it would be a no-brainer. My experience with yellows is that it's hard to cover over a yellow, but not hard to get coverage like a red.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

High Glosser said:


> Any suggestions on how to make a yellowish tan color cover over an existing beige color in two coats verses three. I bid a re-paint for two coats of finish and it is looking like it is going to take three which will kill my profits. I have too much pride to go back to homeowner to ask for more money and I think it is bad business to do so. This is starting to happen to me more often as I am seeing more people move from beige colors to yellowish, green and orange colors.
> We tried going with a a half tint stain blocking primer but it doesn't seem to help. I know grey color primers can help with reds but I am at a loss with yellows?


We always let potential customers know up front that any yellows,reds,burgandys may require a higher quality paint or more coats than our standard 2.All colors must be established before work begins.

But to answer your question.What are you talking about? A couple of walls? If so,bite the bullet and chalk this up to paying for an education in customer expectations


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Even in Aura, light yellows have been a challenge at times. Often 2 coats is that 95% good, need to look close type thing.


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

plainpainter said:


> From the colors you describe, I don't even see why this is an issue? Seems like an easy standard 2 coat finish.


 Agreed if it's a tan/yellow. Bright, sharp, clean yellows can be challenging as Dean says even with the Aura.

I've agreed with Dan in 2 different threads tonight  lol


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## Wood511 (Dec 13, 2010)

If you don't want to spend the money on Aura, use ben. It has Gennex as well and I've never had it fail to cover in two coats. I've done tan over red in one coat if you lay it on a bit thick and slow roll it. ben is great stuff.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

I use aura whenever coverage may be in question.

I had to 4 coat with ben one time. I thought as wood did but it didn't work.

There are no miracles. Either pay more for the best covering paint available (aura) or spend the extra time messing with priming and 2-3 coating.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

plainpainter said:


> From the colors you describe, I don't even see why this is an issue? Seems like an easy standard 2 coat finish.


Plain, you don't even paint. :jester: Yellow is difficult especially if using an extra white base, using a higher quality paint with the appropriate base is the right route to go. The right nap helps a ton as well.


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## prototype66 (Mar 13, 2008)

So the consensus on Aura is that is is the top notch product of choice . With the guys that have used it....any tips? I hear it is a bit different to apply and I am getting ready to bid an Aura job. I have never used it.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Cut it in and let it dry. Only when dry come back and roll.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

Paradigmzz said:


> Plain, you don't even paint. :jester: Yellow is difficult especially if using an extra white base, using a higher quality paint with the appropriate base is the right route to go. The right nap helps a ton as well.


Benjamin Moore Traditional yellow over some Baby Blue color in one coat perfect coverage, better than aura. I had the benny moore color matched to a different brand where I didn't spend more than $21/gallon. 

Celadon Green {which is a light yellowy green color} took two passes over grey walls, and that paint was again color matched at $26/gallon. 

I've done many many many yellows. The only time I ever had a potential issue was after stripping wallpaper on a 100 year old home and skim coating the old bare plaster walls - I used some Insl-X interior oil primer that was tinted yellow and two coats of California Freshcoat. Had I not tinted the primer - the two coats wouldn't have been 100%. 

The problem with yellows are not the ability to cover, the problem with yellows is trying to cover them with another color - that's where you have real problems. Helping a friend on her project, used Aura tinted to their 'Rhubarb' color going over existing yellow walls. Two coats didn't come close to covering. Then we heard the whole gamut from....Rhubarb, although a benny moore color - isn't an Aura specific color....to, you need to use the correct color foundation - huh? I though 2 coat coverage all the time? And the excuses went on and on.


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## ROOMINADAY (Mar 20, 2009)

We just use Aura 85% of the time, the other 15% now is Regal - Painted a Deep Red in Regal yesterday - 2 coats, I though for sure at least 3 and would not charge for the 3rd coat anyway. Ben is dead to me - poor coverage imo, blocks bad, Ecospec WB hides better, more solids too.

I agree with Aaron - add a statement in your quotes that states Red's, Orange and Yellows may be subject to additional charges do to product coverage. I think I too...will along with a pet clause!

Use BM colour foundation for yellow if needed


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I do not recall having problems painting over yellow before.


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## kingsebi (Jan 27, 2009)

*Learning process*

The more you do this, the more you will figure out what covers and what doesn't. When you are dealing with crazy colors - red, orange, dark blue, dark green, gold, etc. use good paint! I'm partial to Eco Spec. Hope for 2 coats, but know that it sometimes will take three.

When in doubt, be up front with you customers. Let them know, " I think this will cover in 2, but it may take three. Depends on the color. Price it for two coats. If it doesn't quite make it, let them decide if they want another coat. Then give them a deal. But they still have to pay for the additional paint and labor. That stuff isn't free.

Most customers understand. Very seldom does it become an issue. You'll be fine.


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## ROOMINADAY (Mar 20, 2009)

prototype66 said:


> So the consensus on Aura is that is is the top notch product of choice . With the guys that have used it....any tips? I hear it is a bit different to apply and I am getting ready to bid an Aura job. I have never used it.



Make sure your calculations are correct for paint required - a few gallons off can be costly! Cutting it with BM extender helps with smoothing your cut's in (better than water), otherwise cut in, let dry (set up), roll. simple.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

High Glosser said:


> Any suggestions on how to make a yellowish tan color cover over an existing beige color in two coats verses three. I bid a re-paint for two coats of finish and it is looking like it is going to take three which will kill my profits. I have too much pride to go back to homeowner to ask for more money and I think it is bad business to do so. This is starting to happen to me more often as I am seeing more people move from beige colors to yellowish, green and orange colors.
> We tried going with a a half tint stain blocking primer but it doesn't seem to help. I know grey color primers can help with reds but I am at a loss with yellows?


It's always helpful to say what brand you are using when dealing with coverage issues. So... what brand *are* you using? 

Seems that a yellowish tan over beige should be an easy two coater. 



CliffK said:


> Agreed if it's a tan/yellow. Bright, sharp, clean yellows can be challenging as Dean says even with the Aura.
> 
> I've agreed with Dan in 2 different threads tonight  lol


Me too. :shutup:


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

DeanV said:


> I do not recall having problems painting over yellow before.


The problems arise when going over them with a dark, bolder color.


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## Wood511 (Dec 13, 2010)

TJ Paint said:


> I use aura whenever coverage may be in question.
> 
> I had to 4 coat with ben one time. I thought as wood did but it didn't work.
> 
> There are no miracles. Either pay more for the best covering paint available (aura) or spend the extra time messing with priming and 2-3 coating.


What? What were you covering and what color were you applying? Maybe I've just been lucky so far.


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## Wood511 (Dec 13, 2010)

ROOMINADAY said:


> We just use Aura 85% of the time, the other 15% now is Regal - Painted a Deep Red in Regal yesterday - 2 coats, I though for sure at least 3 and would not charge for the 3rd coat anyway. Ben is dead to me - poor coverage imo, blocks bad, Ecospec WB hides better, more solids too.


Has Ben changed for you or has it always been bad? I also use Aura most of the time, but will do Ben if I get a tighter budget and it's always delivered for me. I'm wondering why it seems to work for me but it's dead to you. I do strictly interiors and mostly flat sheen with ben. If I'm running eggshell, I'll use Aura.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Wood511 said:


> What? What were you covering and what color were you applying? Maybe I've just been lucky so far.


To be fair it was a color that was not for exterior. Evidently they have colors that they recommend not be used on exterior.

It was a magenta over dark blue on an exterior door.

Did one coat Ben, saw it wasn't doing anything. Used a valspar deep base primer tinted towards the magenta (mistake).

Then got some grey zinnser 123, then two finish coats of the Ben.

Guess thats 5 coats:blink:

Lesson: Magenta sucks for coverage in Ben. 

Ben with Ultradeep, best bet to prime first.

Might not have covered in 2 with aura either, but I bet it would have in 3.


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## Amish Elecvtrician (Jul 3, 2011)

Yellow is the devils' spawn of paint colors ....

Yet, I had no problem getting good, one-coat coverage of my beige/tan house siding (ACB shingles) with a moderate yellow paint.

Paint was S-W "A100," not their best. Application was by sprayer. I expect that the sprayer let any differences 'even out,' without the obvious differences in coverage that can happen with 'hand painting' methods.


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## Wood511 (Dec 13, 2010)

TJ,

Interesting. Both ben and Aura use Gennex so I'm guessing the hide should be comparable at least. Dark blue can be tough. I'd love to run the two side by side on a job like you had and see what happens.


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## ROOMINADAY (Mar 20, 2009)

Wood511 said:


> Has Ben changed for you or has it always been bad? I also use Aura most of the time, but will do Ben if I get a tighter budget and it's always delivered for me. I'm wondering why it seems to work for me but it's dead to you. I do strictly interiors and mostly flat sheen with ben. If I'm running eggshell, I'll use Aura.



It is just not worth the $$ IMO. It is 48 retail here, less my discount and Regal is 59, less my discount and Aura is 69 less my discount. Coverage, block resistance and dry times for the max additional 21 (retail) it is well worth it IMO to turn a round a room and put back into service. If they are on a budget I run with EcoSpec WB which contain more solids and covers better in our experience.


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## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

I can't believe you guys. Aura-Auta-Aura..... Trying all you can to pump it up as the greatest dang paint ever invented all along taking his attention from what the real pro's use. Shame on you people. We all know the BEHR is specially formulated with the latest in space age ultraviolet ultra-hiding bonding polymers that is guaranteed and will last a lifetime. So to answer the OP, Behr is the only paint you should ever need for any project. Your welcome


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

With yellow, if you cant see it from outer space, its not solid yet.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

Ok that's it  I think the guys at homedepot hijacked Lambrecht account?


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## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> Ok that's it  I think the guys at homedepot hijacked Lambrecht account?


 They offered a free 5'er in the color of my choice for the positive plug on PT I will give 10 bucks to anyone that will take it.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Lambrecht said:


> They offered a free 5'er in the color of my choice for the positive plug on PT I will give 10 bucks to anyone that will take it.


Hope you got a bright red...
:no::shutup::no:


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Lambrecht said:


> They offered a free 5'er in the color of my choice for the positive plug on PT I will give 10 bucks to anyone that will take it.


 
no thanks


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Lambrecht said:


> I can't believe you guys. Aura-Auta-Aura..... Trying all you can to pump it up as the greatest dang paint ever invented all along taking his attention from what the real pro's use. Shame on you people. We all know the BEHR is specially formulated with the latest in space age ultraviolet ultra-hiding bonding polymers that is guaranteed and will last a lifetime. So to answer the OP, Behr is the only paint you should ever need for any project. Your welcome


Just a few adjetives used in their shameless promotion( beside what you already posted)

Premium
Plus
Ultra
Extra -High Performance
Made withh Advanced NANOGUARD Technology

that nanoguard stuff just make me want to :blink:


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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

You're contract said two coats so you have the right to charge extra for the third coat. You do not work for free. Some yellows wont cover after 5 coats. I warn clients now when they want to use a yellow paint. Even if you use a tinted primer, you will never get full coverage with some yellows. The boxing affect wont go away.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Amish Elecvtrician said:


> Yellow is the devils' spawn of paint colors ....
> 
> Yet, I had no problem getting good, one-coat coverage of my beige/tan house siding (ACB shingles) with a moderate yellow paint.
> 
> Paint was S-W "A100," not their best. Application was by sprayer. I expect that the sprayer let any differences 'even out,' without the obvious differences in coverage that can happen with 'hand painting' methods.


I don't know... the devil is always depicted as being red. Coincidence? I don't think so. :no:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

researchhound said:


> It's always helpful to say what brand you are using when dealing with coverage issues. So... what brand *are* you using?



also an issue is it a factory standard color or a custom mix?

I'll assume a custom mix in an ultra deep base. Basically the issue is (or at least WAS when I was doing retail) that there is not as much pigment in a custom yellow in an ultra deep base as there is for other colors or ones that can start with a base with some pigment already in it. 

I was known to take a factory mix yellow (or red) and adjust to the custom color, much better coverage.


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## Wood511 (Dec 13, 2010)

I've done that as well. There is more than one way to "arrive" at even the lightest colors. I was playing with the hiding ability of Aura white earlier this year with the BM guys. You'd be surprised how much black/grey you can put in a quart of white and still get a very white result.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

Westview said:


> You're contract said two coats so you have the right to charge extra for the third coat. You do not work for free. Some yellows wont cover after 5 coats. I warn clients now when they want to use a yellow paint. Even if you use a tinted primer, you will never get full coverage with some yellows. The boxing affect wont go away.


My opinion working for the general public is that they're not very professional when it comes to sticking with a contract. My view is that a contract is a last ditch effort to avoid a he-said/she-said scenerio. 

My opinion with contracts is that you will promise good coverage for modest color changes and price everything for 2 coats - and that any 'bold' color change cannot be guaranteed and will be written up as a change-order at the time of request. I do this because most homeowners can't tell me color worth bananna peels before the job starts. But I don't get technical about one coat or two coat - my experience is that every homeowner that's insisted on one coat, would never take responsibility if it wasn't perfect. They'd all end up with 2 coat work for 1 coat price. All strategies presented 3-4 years ago about usin paints such as Aura and pricing for one coat as a way to swallow up work in my opinion has backfired. No paint is perfect in one coat coverage all the time, and now when you are screwed into doing a second coat - it's with an atrociously expensive paint. Bye bye profits.


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

plainpainter said:


> All strategies presented 3-4 years ago about usin paints such as Aura and pricing for one coat as a way to swallow up work in my opinion has backfired. No paint is perfect in one coat coverage *all the time* and now when you are screwed into doing a second coat - it's with an atrociously expensive paint. Bye bye profits.


 I agree again Dan, wow you and I are really in "simpatico" off late! Should I be concerned!!!

Aura does cover very well and better than many others, however many times a second coat is needed to get it 100%. You can use the Regal line and get 75% on the first and pick up the other 25% on the second or you can use the Aura and get 85% on the first and the last 15% on the second in many cases. You're still doing it twice. It helps a little for on the very dark colors.
We figure any color change for 2 coats regardless of product. Only projects where it is to be the same color get figured for one.


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

Wood511 said:


> I've done that as well. There is more than one way to "arrive" at even the lightest colors. I was playing with the hiding ability of Aura white earlier this year with the BM guys. You'd be surprised how much black/grey you can put in a quart of white and still get a very white result.


:yes: We've been adding 1 bk to many of our whites for as long as I can remember. I won't do it if the white is up against a clean pastel color.


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## IHATE_HOMEDEPOT (May 27, 2008)

Use an exterior paint.:chinese:


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## Faron79 (Dec 11, 2007)

I work at a very reputable NON-Box store. Have tinted a lot of paint over the last 8 years. Our top line is C2...mid-to-upper-$40's/gal.
(ACE-Royal & Ralph-Lauren as well, Sikkens stains, etc.)

YES-
Yellows (AND Reds, Magenta's, Blues) are challenging in deeper bases. I don't let a customer out the door without tinted primers...OR, making sure their painter is already using one. Medium-to-darkish GRAYS for the dark topcoats. For bright, citrus-ey kinda colors, the primer needs to be almost the topcoat color. Mountain-Dew greens, Basketball oranges, etc.

HOWEVER-
PASTEL-type yellows won't hide any worse in lighter tint-bases, such as the "White-base", or the 2nd-base down from White. There's waaayyy too much TI02 in the lighter bases to have poor coverage with even a moderate amount of Yellow colorant added. 

>>> The fallacy of adding a shot or 3 of Black to "Whites" is a bunch of "Hooey", in respect to making it "Hide" better!!! 
* It only makes it GRAYER...NOT better at "hiding".
* It's only a trick-of-the-eye kinda result. 
* If White-base colors aren't hiding for you, there's other problems goin' on NOT related to the paint itself. Assuming we're talking GOOD paints anyway...
* The ONLY "Red" I've seen hide in ONE coat is FPE. It was a deep Red/Burgundy color "Wine Red". ....and I pulled that coat THIN. $45/QT. though....

Faron


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## Wood511 (Dec 13, 2010)

A "trick of the eye kinda result"? I would agree. Definitely tricked my eye into believing that it hid better - worked on the customer too. We all got fooled.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

The amount of TiO2 is dependent on paint line, some lines use other fillers like, gasp, chalk to act as the filler. Not all paints are heavily laden in TiO2, the more expensive the more TiO2, until a saturation point is reached. As far as bases are concerned, i disagree again, you can make a dark color out of a white base, but the hide suffers greatly. Also, factory tint and factory bases (red and yellow) are much better than store added. Instead of being an additive they are factored into the manufacturing formula.


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## Faron79 (Dec 11, 2007)

Along Paradigmzz points:

1) TI02 levels-
* Only fairly cheap lines use chalk-proportions for their "hide"-ability anymore.
* Any decent paint above $20/gal. uses mainly or entirely, all TI02.
* Their ARE however...all kinds of mill-grind-levels, and a few "White variances" between GRADES of TI02 out there.
* Will there be SLIGHT variances in HIDE among brands/whiter-bases? Yes, of course.
* My main point: any brands "White-base" has the best hide...in that quality level of paint. Adding a little black or yellow makes NO difference. This can't possibly change how a whiter-base hides.

2) Dark color from a "White-base"???
* Not possible, unless I'm misunderstanding your argument there...?!
* To make a dark color from a white-base, I'd have to pour some of the paint out to make room for all the colorant. Even if one did this, the ratio of TI02/"White" in the can can't be overcome enough with colorant. 
* What's left in the can still has too much WHITE.

3) Red & Yellow bases-
* Yes, when available, these are a better way to hit vivid/deep colors...IF a certain color is formulated for that base in the first place.
* ACE has had Red & Yellow bases for many years now. RL & C2 don't however. The latter rely on a deeply tinted primer if a topcoat is a challenging color.
* With these special bases, the pigment is added at the factory IN THE FORM OF POWDER....NOT liquid colorant @ the store-level.
* These aren't a miracle cure obviously. Even these bases sometimes need the help of a background colored or gray primer, with real vivid colors.

4) Pre-tinted colors-
* Yes....these are the best.
* Usually it's only Reds, Yellows, Greens, some Blues, and of course Blacks.
* Pre-tint versions of especially Black, are VERY BLACK. If makes liquid-tinted blacks look GRAY!
* However...the bright colors still can have some hide issues, even in pretints. They're a lot better, but not completely opaque.

Faron


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

Faron has some good information - contained in it are some of the secrets I have used over the years.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

plainpainter said:


> Faron has some good information - contained in it are some of the secrets I have used over the years.


How will we ever figure out which ones? :jester:


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## Faron79 (Dec 11, 2007)

I'd say pretty much all of it....:jester::whistling2:

Faron


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

Paradigmzz said:


> As far as bases are concerned, i disagree again, you can make a dark color out of a white base


:no: I'm sorry but that's bullsh!t.  better go see if Steve is still contained in the off topic zone


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

plainpainter said:


> Faron has some good information - contained in it are some of the secrets I have used over the years.


Dan,

I wish I knew all your secrets.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> :no: I'm sorry but that's bullsh!t.  better go see if Steve is still contained in the off topic zone


I have had a clerk make a color that should have been in an ultradeep base out of an extra white base. He poured out paint to make room for the tint. They didn't have the correct base in stock and the brainiack thought this would work. Same color as requested, hide nonexistent. I call bull**** to your bull****. It can be done, but it's a stupid idea.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

For the record, because of new employees and the computer tinting machine giving potential formulas based on different bases,(typically when color matching) i have had more than my fair share of experiences with a color created out of the inappropriate base. Been there done that. This is all to say the appropriate base, be it a deep, ultradeep, red, yellow, etc, is huge when trying to get the best hide. 

I appreciate you trying to call me out, but this is nowhere near my first rodeo.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

High Glosser said:


> Any suggestions on how to make a yellowish tan color cover over an existing beige color in two coats verses three. I bid a re-paint for two coats of finish and it is looking like it is going to take three which will kill my profits. I have too much pride to go back to homeowner to ask for more money and I think it is bad business to do so. This is starting to happen to me more often as I am seeing more people move from beige colors to yellowish, green and orange colors.
> We tried going with a a half tint stain blocking primer but it doesn't seem to help. I know grey color primers can help with reds but I am at a loss with yellows?


Just had this happen to us on a job. Used BM regal select matte in hc-31 over decorator white flat. Thought for sure two coats would do it, but after seeing one wall second coated and the cut lines not covering perfectly, changed up tactics. The cut lines on the first coat covered very poorly. We used 1/2"x4" whizz rollers for all the 2nd coat cut ins, and it covered fine. Typically it's going to be the brush lines that don't cover, so the more you can minimize the brush lines the better. We actually taped off the ceiling with 1-1/2" frog tape and jammed the whizz roller all the way up to eliminate brush marks.


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## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

Lambrecht said:


> I can't believe you guys. Aura-Auta-Aura..... Trying all you can to pump it up as the greatest dang paint ever invented all along taking his attention from what the real pro's use. Shame on you people. We all know the BEHR is specially formulated with the latest in space age ultraviolet ultra-hiding bonding polymers that is guaranteed and will last a lifetime. So to answer the OP, Behr is the only paint you should ever need for any project. Your welcome


Behr must be different here then ! I used it a couple years ago and thought it was the best thing since the wheel. Tried it again this spring on a new ceiling and it was pure crap. Aura is good but expensive if the budget is tight, SuperSpec does a good job and reasonable price. A couple years ago I used Aura for the first time at a daycare centre with the wild bright Disny colors. The local rep _*guaranteed*_ one coat coverage even with ultra deep base - that was another crock, also claimed no-show touch-ups with aura flat, more bull crap. When he was reminded opf the "guarantee" he claimed he hadn't said it. Now I'm getting off post and just bitchin so I'll shut up, sorry!


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## Amish Elecvtrician (Jul 3, 2011)

Come to think of it .... it was WAY back, back when the President was from Georgia, that I first tried painting over brown. Off-white over hershey-bar brown, to be exact. I must have put four coats on those walls, before I figured I must be doing something wrong.

Well, I made two basic mistakes. OK, with hindsight, it seems so obvious- but I was fresh out on my own, not even old enough to legally drink. Have to start somewhere....

Most of the work i was doing then was painting new construction, tract-home type. So my first mistake was to use the same thin, watery, 5-gallons-for-$20 paint that was acceptable on virgin drywall. You can get away with much, when your paint looks a lot like what it's covering - and the final customer immediately puts another color over it! It just won't do, though, when you actually need to COVER something.

The second was ... well, the experience made me a believer in primer. The brown was simply 'bleeding' through the cheap paint. 

When I finally bit the bullet, and started over - full masking, priming, using a REAL paint, NEW coverplates for the switches, etc. - all was good.

I think that job cost me triple what I collected - and the cost in time was appalling. Maybe a week lost to a job that should have taken a gew hours. Well, you have to think of such setbacks as 'tuition' in the school of life.

So, for the OP, I have to ask what parts he skipped. Is the paint bleeding through? Did he prime? Does he know you can tint primer (sorta)?

Personally, I hate call-backs. So, if my first 'quick call' doesn't look like it's working .. I stop right there, re-evaluate, and get systematic. 

Painting that brown room was probably the best mistake I ever made.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Amish Elecvtrician said:


> Come to think of it .... it was WAY back, back when the President was from Georgia, that I first tried painting over brown. Off-white over hershey-bar brown, to be exact. I must have put four coats on those walls, before I figured I must be doing something wrong.
> 
> Well, I made two basic mistakes. OK, with hindsight, it seems so obvious- but I was fresh out on my own, not even old enough to legally drink. Have to start somewhere....
> 
> ...


Maybe it's just a matter of semantics (a to-may-to' / to-mah-to thingy), but around here the term "bleed through" is used to describe situations where substances such as tannins, smoke and water stains, and other like substances, actually emulsify and "bleed" into (mix with) the topcoat. The term "bleed through" isn't used to describe just the inability of one color to cover another - that's just considered a coverage issue and is usually described as "showing through". Is "bleed through" commonly used in some areas to describe this as well?

Just curious.


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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

Paradigmzz said:


> I have had a clerk make a color that should have been in an ultradeep base out of an extra white base. He poured out paint to make room for the tint. They didn't have the correct base in stock and the brainiack thought this would work. Same color as requested, hide nonexistent. I call bull**** to your bull****. It can be done, but it's a stupid idea.


I've had the same thing happen to me before with the same results. The hide suffers but you get the same colour.


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## Faron79 (Dec 11, 2007)

Techinically, the above result is impossible!

Sure...you can pour out paint (from a whiter-base) to equal the FILL-LEVEL of an Ultra-deep/Neutral base...

BUT-What nobody seems to realize...IS...

The RATIO of WHITE still left in the can is WAAAAYYY higher/whiter than the Neutral base has!!! 
If someone got the same color from this, there's "Waaaayyyy the H#ll" too much colorant added to that "poured-off white base". You wouldn't really be spreading "PAINT" anymore!
>>> You'd be spreading a can of COLORANT with some white paint added!

Faron


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

When I was still wet behind the ears, I had a medium dark green to match (sorta the color of Fenway's Green Monster). So a started with White. I wondered why it was taking so much tints to even approach the right color. I wondered even more why it didn't want to dry and why it flashed so bad in spots.

years later when I learned a little more about how important it was to have the proper range ratio of vehicle, driers, and pigment, I understood


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