# dark color sheen/color issues



## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

I painted a wall with manor hall timeless it was netural or ultra deep base It is a very dark color lots of tint. Well if you look at it from an angle you can see sheen variation and even a little color variation possibly. 

It was eggshell sheen we used. It is a tough wall its 12+ foot ceilings so the walls are fairly tall and there are big windows letting light shine across it. I primed the wall with gardz and finished every stroke down using a microfiber roller cover 1/2 inch. The customer wants the walls to be washable so I dont know that flat is an option but maybe if one is truly washable they dont care about the sheen level just that it is washable.

No one has complained but I dont like how it looks. Would aura or regal select be a more viable option in deep base I have never aura and only regal select in white or pastel base so I have no experience with this dark of color in those products is matte or flat washable in these products? The cool video BM put out on the Gennex tints seems to claim it would be but I wonder if any of you have experience with it.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

I haven't used Regal in a dark color, but I am a huge fan of the product for its sheen consistency with cut-in/roller and touch-up.


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

Aura is better choice for dark colors. It is not available in flat, matte and up. The pigments lock into the resins, so it doesn't burnish easily. I like the matte and find it cleans like an eggshell. Of course flat is ideal when lighting is tough. Have to go regal for that.


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## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

Do the pigments lock into the resins on regal select as well?


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

jacob33 said:


> Do the pigments lock into the resins on regal select as well?


Aura is the only one with what they call Colorlock.


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

And the hiding cn be very good. This was solid in one coat, was expecting 2 but didn't need it.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

I by no means am a Benny Moore guy but regal is a nice product. I usually use Diamond Matt. But you probably don't have access to it.


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## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

Does anyone know if sherwin williams emerald flat is washable and how it does in deep colors?


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

jacob33 said:


> Does anyone know if sherwin williams emerald flat is washable and how it does in deep colors?


Ok everyone! Here is your chance to keep me quiet!


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Applying Gardz*



jacob33 said:


> I painted a wall with manor hall timeless it was netural or ultra deep base It is a very dark color lots of tint. Well if you look at it from an angle you can see sheen variation and even a little color variation possibly.
> 
> It was eggshell sheen we used. It is a tough wall its 12+ foot ceilings so the walls are fairly tall and there are big windows letting light shine across it. I primed the wall with gardz and finished every stroke down using a microfiber roller cover 1/2 inch. The customer wants the walls to be washable so I dont know that flat is an option but maybe if one is truly washable they dont care about the sheen level just that it is washable.
> 
> No one has complained but I dont like how it looks. Would aura or regal select be a more viable option in deep base I have never aura and only regal select in white or pastel base so I have no experience with this dark of color in those products is matte or flat washable in these products? The cool video BM put out on the Gennex tints seems to claim it would be but I wonder if any of you have experience with it.


You didn't mention if this was NC or a repaint. What I am going to say is probably what you already did anyway, but for sake of clarity I will continue.

If it is NC I would definitely apply 2 coats of Gardz. Under "Application Methods" the Gardz Technical Data Bulletin sheet says "Re-apply to areas overlooked. Back roll to even out areas that develop sags from over-application."

http://apscontractors.homestead.com/files/gardz.pdf

Under "Product Application" the Gardz TDS says " Properly sealed surfaces should have a uniform sheen. Reapply to areas that have been missed or lack sufficient coating."

https://www.rustoleum.com/~/media/D...GDZ-01_GARDZ_High_Performance_Sealer_TDS.ashx

Before I ever started using Gardz, I used to prime spackled areas 2 and sometimes 3 times to avoid flashing when painting with eggshell sheen thru semi-gloss.

When I have a big wall that cannot hide from glaring exterior light I always put 2 thorough coats of Gardz on. The second coat goes very quickly and is done for insurance so I don't have to do the whole wall over (like I have done many times in the past!). If I am doing a repaint and have patched a number of places, I will Gardz the patches and then Gardz the whole wall to ensure an even sheen on the final coat of paint.

Again, I apologize in advance if you are already doing these things. If you are, then my guess is that the problem lies with the paint. I have never used Manor Hall, so I have nothing to offer in that department. I am wondering if Muralo Ultra might be a good FLAT paint that is also scrubbable. My 2 cents, for what they're worth.

futtyos


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## Honestpainting (Feb 6, 2016)

Emerald flat is very washable. 

I used the matte once and the tile guy got charcoal grout all over my light gray walls i painted two days before and tried to wipe them down. They dried with a charcoal haze on them. 
So the next day I figured, what the heck, I'll try and wipe them down again with a wet microfiber. I had to wash them pretty good and they were well lit with natural light and they didn't burnish at all and no color washed off either. After the water dried I literally couldn't tell where I'd wiped them down. 

I was impressed to say the least.

The hide of Emerald is not quite as good as BM Regal but it's equal or better than most paints out there that I've tried.


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## PaintMaker (Apr 1, 2016)

Sometimes (Most often) old walls are not straight/flat and tend to have high and low areas running vertically, this can cause defects similar to what you describe for two reasons.

1. The way the light hits the wall will be different at the high and low areas

2. The roller doesn't apply evenly and thus your finished paint film is of different thicknesses across the entire wall.

If you get a long straight edge and hold it across the wall horizontally and you see large and significant gaps I would attempt to roll the wall horizontally given the lighting conditions.

It's a >12ft high wall so you may not like the suggestion but it has worked well for me when walls are uneven and the owner does not want them corrected, just coated. However it will not change the lighting.....

Or the walls may be perfect, only a straight edge will tell.


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## Honestpainting (Feb 6, 2016)

jacob33 said:


> I painted a wall with manor hall timeless it was netural or ultra deep base It is a very dark color lots of tint. Well if you look at it from an angle you can see sheen variation and even a little color variation possibly.
> 
> It was eggshell sheen we used. It is a tough wall its 12+ foot ceilings so the walls are fairly tall and there are big windows letting light shine across it. I primed the wall with gardz and finished every stroke down using a microfiber roller cover 1/2 inch. The customer wants the walls to be washable so I dont know that flat is an option but maybe if one is truly washable they dont care about the sheen level just that it is washable.
> 
> No one has complained but I dont like how it looks. Would aura or regal select be a more viable option in deep base I have never aura and only regal select in white or pastel base so I have no experience with this dark of color in those products is matte or flat washable in these products? The cool video BM put out on the Gennex tints seems to claim it would be but I wonder if any of you have experience with it.


Matte finish, in my experience, has more angular sheen issues than egg-shell or satin. The reason I think is that each coat absorbs into the last coat and dries faster the less sheen there is. The higher sheen seals better. The only way to counteract this is apply the final coat wetter and faster. Your leading edge should be rolled into while it's still very wet and be generous with the amount of paint while still controlling the stipple. And don't over backroll into the previous wet area too far. A large 18" or 14" roller with a 3/8" nap will help.

Rolling out large, highly lit walls is difficult but can be done.


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## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

Man it's so painter the way we have our opinions . Matte is a glorified flat and does not clean well at all. We stopped telling customers it does because of the burnishing once they tried cleaning it. We had many complaints from customers as well the paint store did to about matte. Now SW has a so called washable flat in there Emrald line( remember EverClean God awful ! ). Aura does do a better job in deep colors but all there lines with the gen -X colorant do as well. Still allot depends on lighting and application on a high wall like that.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

thinkpainting/nick said:


> Man it's so painter the way we have our opinions . Matte is a glorified flat and does not clean well at all. We stopped telling customers it does because of the burnishing once they tried cleaning it. We had many complaints from customers as well the paint store did to about matte. Now SW has a so called washable flat in there Emrald line( remember EverClean God awful ! ). Aura does do a better job in deep colors but all there lines with the gen -X colorant do as well. Still allot depends on lighting and application on a high wall like that.


Cheap mattes just like any cheap paint will disappoint when it comes to durability in direct relation to the quality of the paint. Unless it is an SW product and it is grossly overpriced to begin with. I have a couple of matte paints that I am getting rave reviews about in regards to scubbabilty and durability. And I get good comments on how easy it is to apply with no lap marks. In black and dark brown even. So it is possible.


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## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

PACman said:


> Cheap mattes just like any cheap paint will disappoint when it comes to durability in direct relation to the quality of the paint. Unless it is an SW product and it is grossly overpriced to begin with. I have a couple of matte paints that I am getting rave reviews about in regards to scubbabilty and durability. And I get good comments on how easy it is to apply with no lap marks. In black and dark brown even. So it is possible.


I'm talking about BM matte with gen-X . And every other matte I've used. There will always be some who agree or disagree. I like the way it goes on very easy to work with but it does not wash but what paints do without burnishing. Semi and gloss will still wash better than any other and oil was still king. I have P&L cell-u-tone on my house trim for 30 plus years in high traffic areas still washes and held up. Again I'm not doubting what your saying but I havnt personally seen a matte or glorified flat hold up to any type of washing. At least my customer base and myself and my paint store hasn't. 

My go to in res interior repainted is usually California ceiling, BM egg and Advance on trim because it's readily avavible. I was very impressed recently with SW Emerald egg in a dark red that covered like a glove.

Used C2 egg today which we like allot only because we worked in RI in Providence and the HO requested it. there ceiling paint on the other hand .....


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## NACE (May 16, 2008)

Consider Aura Bath and Spa. Very low sheen. Extremely durable and washable. Outstanding hide and good application and handling. Any undulations in drywall will always cause angular sheen issues but attention to how you apply with 3/8 microber will eliminate variations. Its spread rate is very favorable too. Regal will burnish in dark colors regardless of marketing. Color lock dyes a pigment rather then surrounds it so my experience is that 532 Bath and spa is a better option. 4 women in my house can't kill it especially in the bathroom. It's on every wall we have in the house with 1912 plaster walls. Good luck!


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## AngieM (Apr 13, 2016)

PACman said:


> Cheap mattes just like any cheap paint will disappoint when it comes to durability in direct relation to the quality of the paint. Unless it is an SW product and it is grossly overpriced to begin with. I have a couple of matte paints that I am getting rave reviews about in regards to scubbabilty and durability. And I get good comments on how easy it is to apply with no lap marks. In black and dark brown even. So it is possible.



What is this scrubbable flat paint you're speaking of? I'd love to try it!


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## PaintMaker (Apr 1, 2016)

Another point worth mentioning is how paint manufacturers achieve a flat/matte finish. Generally a fumed silica would be dispersed into the resin.

When the paint is applied these tiny particles will protrude through the surface of the dried film deflecting and scattering the light, this rough and porous surface is susceptible to marking and stains.

Now I have seen specialised PTFE additives used to achieve a matte finish in washable anti graffiti coatings before but these products are very expensive.


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