# Latex paint over oil



## coop (Sep 16, 2015)

Hi everyone,

I got a new project to paint someone's house. The doors and trim were previously painted in an oil based paint. Usually I would sand, clean with TSP and then paint with my latex paint. However, in this job there's a ton a trim and doors and I would be spending a couple days just doing the prep.

Does anyone know of a primer (non oil based) that might save some time? A painter friend of mine recommended problem solving primer but I've never tried it before.

Any thought?
Many thanks in advance
-Coop


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

After you properly prep everything. You can use Kilz Max and then use any paint you want. 

I have used it a lot as an undercoater before painting with BM Advance.


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## coop (Sep 16, 2015)

Thanks so much for the quick reply and tip on Kilz Max *ReNt A PaInTeR*. 
Would you still sand and clean the trim/doors first? Or would a coat of the primer be enough before I painted?
Thanks again!


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

coop said:


> Thanks so much for the quick reply and tip on Kilz Max *ReNt A PaInTeR*.
> Would you still sand and clean the trim/doors first? Or would a coat of the primer be enough before I painted?
> Thanks again!


Nothing replaces the importance of sanding if you're transitioning from oil to latex. You could go a little lighter on the sanding as long as you've knocked the gloss off, and clean with Krud Cutter or liquid sanding de-glosser. Anything else is a gamble in regards to longevity IMO.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

I would(personally) use a better primer, but that's just me.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

There are so many paints now that are water soluble that u can go right onto the oil with dedicating a primer coat is a waste.
Pro industrial. Go right on it. Light sand it if u want to. But. It's gonna grab and it's not coming off. I promise.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

coop said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I got a new project to paint someone's house. The doors and trim were previously painted in an oil based paint. Usually I would sand, clean with TSP and then paint with my latex paint. However, in this job there's a ton a trim and doors and I would be spending a couple days just doing the prep.
> 
> ...


Not trying to be a smarta$$ here, but the cost of prepping and cleaning should be figured into the job. Trying to shortcut around proper prep leads to some sad results, whether you're using a primer or not.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Oden said:


> There are so many paints now that are water soluble that u can go right onto the oil with dedicating a primer coat is a waste.
> Pro industrial. Go right on it. Light sand it if u want to. But. It's gonna grab and it's not coming off. I promise.


I can tell you first hand that's not true. Did a job in January liquid de-glossed and used Pro-Industrial. Guess who's going back to scrape and sand it all off. This guy, never again shoulda known better. :vs_cry:


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Rbriggs82 said:


> I can tell you first hand that's not true. Did a job in January liquid de-glossed and used Pro-Industrial. Guess who's going back to scrape and sand it all off. This guy, never again shoulda known better. :vs_cry:


And that's how cynical old painters are made. :yes:


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

slinger58 said:


> And that's how cynical old painters are made. :yes:


Yup, the only good thing is the trim is just plain block without any profile. It's still going to suck tho.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

Rbriggs82 said:


> I can tell you first hand that's not true. Did a job in January liquid de-glossed and used Pro-Industrial. Guess who's going back to scrape and sand it all off. This guy, never again shoulda known better. :vs_cry:


I find it hard to beleive, we use it all of the time now, right now actually.
It's kinda a issue for us over the years. The oil change thing. Virtually all of the trim we deal with. Repaint wize, was done in oil, not some of it. All of it, commercial it was all anybody used. The switchover was a mess,
The pro industrial I just know it grabs. 
Now. We don't I have never actually used a deglosser. I dunno. Maybe there is the jamb up? Truthfully. Prep is most often a light sand with a duster. 
And hey. I don't 'really care' I just hate to see the fellas killing themselves over nothing. Wasting a whole coat? Pretty big
The oil to water based thing hasn't been a issue for years now
I'd look at the deglosser I really would. You don't need it, therefore? It can only hurt you. 
Light sand. Dust and paint,


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

I wisht come clean up time. It didn't stick so good. Haha
My hands I gotta scrub em raw to get most of it off
Serious


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## Seth The Painter (Jun 24, 2015)

Imo this is the best latex conversion primer out there


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Oden said:


> I find it hard to beleive, we use it all of the time now, right now actually.
> It's kinda a issue for us over the years. The oil change thing. Virtually all of the trim we deal with. Repaint wize, was done in oil, not some of it. All of it, commercial it was all anybody used. The switchover was a mess,
> The pro industrial I just know it grabs.
> Now. We don't I have never actually used a deglosser. I dunno. Maybe there is the jamb up? Truthfully. Prep is most often a light sand with a duster.
> ...


Yeah who knows it could have been something in the deglosser that didn't play nice idk. 

Sent from my LG-H810 using Tapatalk


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Yeah who knows it could have been something in the deglosser that didn't play nice idk.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H810 using Tapatalk


I don't think so. Think about it. Why is there still a market for UMA, Stix, Zinsser 123 ,etc. if these acrylic finish paints bond so well to a existing alkyd finish?


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

slinger58 said:


> I don't think so. Think about it. Why is there still a market for UMA, Stix, Zinsser 123 ,etc. if these acrylic finish paints bond so well to a existing alkyd finish?


Believe me I'm not gonna make the same mistake twice. :no:


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

Anyone ever try Multipurpose from sherwin? Just curious. We used it to go over some existing oil finish and it worked well, but small amounts here and there, don't know if that tells a true story.

Stuff is good for even pvc...so maybe? 

I agree XIM makes good stuff, period.


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## Seth The Painter (Jun 24, 2015)

I had a buddy of mine that had to repaint an entire house using that stuff wood.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

chrisn said:


> I would(personally) use a better primer, but that's just me.


Uh oh someone got sand in his vagina because is sold at HD. :whistling2:


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

coop said:


> Thanks so much for the quick reply and tip on Kilz Max *ReNt A PaInTeR*.
> Would you still sand and clean the trim/doors first? Or would a coat of the primer be enough before I painted?
> Thanks again!


You never skip the prep. That's the key to a long lasting job.


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## Seth The Painter (Jun 24, 2015)

I sand everything I paint.


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## racx (May 2, 2015)

Krud Cutter gloss off works great you will notice it leaves the surface tacky. Did a bunch of doors were oil deglossed and put on precat epoxy. The turned out great and held up.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

California Ultraplate if you can get it. Thirty one years selling paint and it is the only paint i have every seen that can stick right on glossy alkyd paint without a primer.
My sales floor displays were painted with gloss Rustoleum 10-15 years ago at a previous paint store. When i bought them i cleaned them, lightly sanded them, and put a coat of Ultraplate on them. I defy anyone to get it to peel off. I have had twenty to thirty painting contractors try and fail. It is a urethane modified acrylic and any of you that have used the XIM UMA already know how well that resin package works. The Ultraplate and cali's Grip Coat primer use the same UMA resins.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

Both those Cali products are a awesome


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

Anybody have recent experience with Gripper--over oil? I remember using it many, many moons ago when it first hit the shelves....ho wanted it on her tile. I was skeptical to say the least but was very impressed at the bond (it was bonded when I got paid anyway...no idea how it held up over the years..lol) I've been thinking about using it again as sw no longer carries xim...and it is less expensive. No real comparison, I suppose but, hey-thought I'd throw it out to you guys. Now I'm bracing for the backlash (duck and cover!!)


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

lilpaintchic said:


> Anybody have recent experience with Gripper--over oil? I remember using it many, many moons ago when it first hit the shelves....ho wanted it on her tile. I was skeptical to say the least but was very impressed at the bond (it was bonded when I got paid anyway...no idea how it held up over the years..lol) I've been thinking about using it again as sw no longer carries xim...and it is less expensive. No real comparison, I suppose but, hey-thought I'd throw it out to you guys. Now I'm bracing for the backlash (duck and cover!!)


Gripper is good. But I prefer coverstain over oil, then my acrylic. I've never had gripper fail on me, but I personally prefer coverstain


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

gripper is Ok , but this is just as good(if not better)


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> Uh oh someone got sand in his vagina because is sold at HD. :whistling2:



1.Someone here reads reddit.com

2. ouch


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> Uh oh someone got sand in his vagina because is sold at HD. :whistling2:


Isn't that like saying someone got kicked in "her balls"?

I'm getting too old for this world.


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## Delta Painting (Apr 27, 2010)

slinger58 said:


> Isn't that like saying someone got kicked in "her balls"?
> 
> I'm getting too old for this world.


Hey it is a conversion thread.. :jester:


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Delta Painting said:


> Hey it is a conversion thread.. :jester:


There's going to be no reward points for that sort of conduct. As a matter of fact, I'm not certain if the Geneva Convention allows for the use of female anatomy verbiage in social media conversation, other than to describe boobs.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

CApainter said:


> There's going to be no reward points for that sort of conduct. As a matter of fact, I'm not certain if the Geneva Convention allows for the use of female anatomy verbiage in social media conversation, other than to describe boobs.


Glad to see you're in good form tonight, CA. :thumbup:


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

slinger58 said:


> Glad to see you're in good form tonight, CA. :thumbup:


Thanks. I'm working on my management skills in the event a mod job goes out for application.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

CApainter said:


> Thanks. I'm working on my management skills in the event a mod job goes out for application.


Ya got my vote! 

Wait, is this a union thing?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

slinger58 said:


> Ya got my vote!
> 
> Wait, is this a union thing?


I hope not, because I'll be restricted to the job classification. That won't allow any latitude to express myself.


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

I recently did a test using multiple primers on a metal door that had been painted with Industrial Enamel and still had a high gloss finish. Gripper, 123, Seal Grip all performed about the same on the next day scratch test. UMA took a little more effort to scratch off. SW Procryl would not scratch off even with a 5 in 1.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

CApainter said:


> I hope not, because I'll be restricted to the job classification. That won't allow any latitude to express myself.


Take heart, CA. You can still be the President. :yes:


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Gwarel said:


> I recently did a test using multiple primers on a metal door that had been painted with Industrial Enamel and still had a high gloss finish. Gripper, 123, Seal Grip all performed about the same on the next day scratch test. UMA took a little more effort to scratch off. SW Procryl would not scratch off even with a 5 in 1.


You just called in the dogs my friend! Run for your life!!!!!!!...!!!


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Gwarel said:


> I recently did a test using multiple primers on a metal door that had been painted with Industrial Enamel and still had a high gloss finish. Gripper, 123, Seal Grip all performed about the same on the next day scratch test. UMA took a little more effort to scratch off. SW Procryl would not scratch off even with a 5 in 1.


In my experience, all the acrylic bonding primers need a week or more to achieve full adhesion. 

On the other hand, I've had an account with Sherwin-Williams for nearly 30 years and I still can't get a product price that will stick for more than a week or so.


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

slinger58 said:


> In my experience, all the acrylic bonding primers need a week or more to achieve full adhesion.
> 
> On the other hand, I've had an account with Sherwin-Williams for nearly 30 years and I still can't get a product price that will stick for more than a week or so.


I agree. Unfortunately we need the ability to paint over the primer asap. I've always had the best results with UMA for this. I've used Gripper a lot over the years and for the most part it has done the job. I've used a lot of Coverstain too and it has always worked well. I did the test over the door without sanding, but in the real world I always scuff sand and wipe clean, as I'm sure everyone else does.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Gwarel said:


> I agree. Unfortunately we need the ability to paint over the primer asap. I've always had the best results with UMA for this. I've used Gripper a lot over the years and for the most part it has done the job. I've used a lot of Coverstain too and it has always worked well. I did the test over the door without sanding, but in the real world I always scuff sand and wipe clean, as I'm sure everyone else does.


The recoat times are printed on the labels. No need to wait a week or more for topcoat. Won't affect the adhesion of the primer. 

But I suspect you already know this. :yes:


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

Oden said:


> There are so many paints now that are water soluble that u can go right onto the oil with dedicating a primer coat is a waste.
> Pro industrial. Go right on it. Light sand it if u want to. But. It's gonna grab and it's not coming off. I promise.





Rbriggs82 said:


> I can tell you first hand that's not true. Did a job in January liquid de-glossed and used Pro-Industrial. Guess who's going back to scrape and sand it all off. This guy, never again shoulda known better. :vs_cry:


There are something like 8 different interior Pro-Industrial products listed on the SW website. Could be you two aren't talking about the same paint?

http://www.sherwin-williams.com/pai...coatings/commercial-highperformance-coatings/


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

I paint paint said:


> There are something like 8 different interior Pro-Industrial products listed on the SW website. Could be you two aren't talking about the same paint?
> 
> http://www.sherwin-williams.com/pai...coatings/commercial-highperformance-coatings/


I used the pre-catalyzed


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

Heres a tidbit for anyone interested. Sw has come up with their own version of xim. Saw it on the shelf today. I know it's comparable and is just as good as xim in the bonding dept. A few months ago I was asked to demo the prototype on the tiles in front of the store. (Been nagging them for a while to get rid of the gawd awful green tiles that sooo didnt match anything else, haha)Did half with xim. Half with the science lab stuff (new sw product) sw brand was a little heavier bodied and wasn't AS smooth as xim but a good product imo. 1 hr later, tried scratching both off with a key. Then a 5n1...wouldn't budge. They may have tweeked a few things before it hit the shelves, not sure...interested in trying it again though. I've stuck to xim (it's expensive tho) on some things, but just wondering about how you guys deal with conversion. Sounds like we're all still in the same boat. I haven't seen seal grip in a while. I forgot that I really liked that product...there's gotta be a less expensive way that's comparable to coverstain in the $ dept.. .HO's aren't excited about oil usually..especially with Littles around. Thanks for the input!


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

Rbriggs82 said:


> I can tell you first hand that's not true. Did a job in January liquid de-glossed and used Pro-Industrial. Guess who's going back to scrape and sand it all off. This guy, never again shoulda known better. :vs_cry:


It seems like you have a new system involving Oil Bond additive you are happy with now. Is it true?

No sanding, no priming. Just use Oil Bond over slick oil and any latex finish coat will bond tenaciously?

This analysis would rival your sleeve testing, which we are all eagerly following.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

I paint paint said:


> It seems like you have a new system involving Oil Bond additive you are happy with now. Is it true?
> 
> No sanding, no priming. Just use Oil Bond over slick oil and any latex finish coat will bond tenaciously?
> 
> This analysis would rival your sleeve testing, which we are all eagerly following.


So far so good with the Oil Bond. I tested it out at home before the field and it worked as advertised. That said it wasn't over crazy hard old oil, it worked over Sherwin Williams ProClassic oil that was done about a year ago. I used it on a job in May what had some older oil trim. Just so happens I'm going back there next week to do some other areas so I'm gonna see if it's held up and try scratching at it more aggressively since it has had plenty of time to cure.


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## Jazz_Painter (Feb 22, 2015)

What about Aqualock? It's made to be put on oil, did the conversion just fine for me. I did degrease with a non rince product, then pole sanded the walls, but not the trim. Haven't had a peeling problem. If I really wanted to make even more sure, then stix would be more adhering. What do you guys think of that?


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## QPP (Dec 24, 2015)

I just recently tried Frazee Aro-thane from Sherwin Williams to try to skip the priming process for converting oil to water base and it worked great. I did a exterior siding job and I sprayed a interior kitchen inside and outside of the cabinets as well after sanding off the gloss of course and it worked great. They picked a pure white for the trim so that was 3 coats mandatory to look right .


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

In a no prep conversion I use coverstain. No sanding or cleaning necessary.


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## AlphaWolf (Nov 23, 2014)

Try PPG Break-Through. Literally sticks to everything.

http://www.dulux.ca/PPG/Dulux/Media...Introduction-SellSheet-FINAL-ENG.pdf?ext=.pdf


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## ElTacoPaco (Dec 11, 2015)

coop said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I got a new project to paint someone's house. The doors and trim were previously painted in an oil based paint. Usually I would sand, clean with TSP and then paint with my latex paint. However, in this job there's a ton a trim and doors and I would be spending a couple days just doing the prep.
> 
> ...


Advamce has a primer that is a hybrid oil base


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Stix is my new go to..surreal adhesion..


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