# Paint for high traffic areas....Daycare



## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

I've got a daycare repaint coming up. This is a little out of my 'usual' as I'm mostly a residential repaint guy. 

A significant consideration is since their lots of children and infants, low VOC and minimal off gassing is important.

The designers have put forth their recommendations, I'm double checking here if you guys have any other products I may consider. I'm not asking for comments on the colours, (I put them here because that makes a difference) I'm asking about the types of paint.

Here are the three different high traffic areas to be painted. 

The recommendations from the design team is:
Kitchen - SW - 7727 (Koi Pond) - semi
(still not sure if this will be painted or I'll do a facelift on the doors...they are still hacking out a budget)










Doors and Trim - BM - Aura - cc-780 (Kensington Blue)










Lockers - BM Aura - cc210 (Dijon)
(how would you estimate this?? - not a real question, my quote is in and done, but it was tricky)










Thanks....


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## PaintinNC (Dec 20, 2009)

If I may make a suggestion try SWP 0 VOC acrylic, it comes in all sheen, great for light industrial/commercial. It will stick to ANYTHING. Price tag would be less than BM and you could use on every surface on this job.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

Harmony


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

You're in Winnipeg so you should have a General Paint store there. GP has recently introduced HP2000 in a low VOC, though it is only available in 5 gallon pails at this time. I would go with that. It will be a lot cheaper than Aura, and if you've used HP before you should know it's tough as nails.

EDIT - with HP you won't need to use a semi on the walls, eggshell is shiny enough and as tough as most semi-gloss paints.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

BM Natura for the lowest odor. Aura is Low VOC, and probably the most durable.


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

NCPaint1 said:


> BM Natura for the lowest odor. Aura is Low VOC, and probably the most durable.


I haven't used your Natura yet - what other line that BM carries would be most like Natura (for comparisons sake)? 

Sorry to derail the thread


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

Thanks for the suggestions. 

I will check out that HP2000, the pictures are only part of the job. The colour of the lockers goes down two hallways and is used in another room. A pail of that would be fine.

Personally, I'd use Aura over Natura. (customer pays anyway)

PaintingNC - sorry what is the acronym SWP? (Sherwin Williams...P?) I was in the SW store the other day for the first time as I want to try Duration on some exteriors. The rep there was excellent, really seemed to know his stuff. Unfortunately they only have two outlets in my city and they aren't convenient.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Rcon said:


> I haven't used your Natura yet - what other line that BM carries would be most like Natura (for comparisons sake)?
> 
> Sorry to derail the thread


Nothing that is similar to Natura. Maybe the ECO Spec under the Gennex platform. That is 0 VOC as well but not virtually odorless like the Natura.


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## PaintinNC (Dec 20, 2009)

Paint and Hammer said:


> Thanks for the suggestions.
> 
> I will check out that HP2000, the pictures are only part of the job. The colour of the lockers goes down two hallways and is used in another room. A pail of that would be fine.
> 
> ...


Just try them, Most SW's will deliver at the drop of a hat. All you have to do is talk to that rep (or store manager) and they will put the material on your jobsite pronto! If you are a new customer and a professional they will probably give you the first few gallons on a job just to get you to try them..... BTW I run a SW (so of course I am trying to get you to use SW, the Ben Moore guys will do the same thing) and I regularly deliver 50-60 miles from my store for customer deliveries. I have customers that have never set foot in my store. And Duration Exterior ROCKS!, easily the best exterior I have ever seen.


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## Tonyg (Dec 9, 2007)

aaron61 said:


> Harmony


:no: I wouldn't use Harmony again if it was half price - free maybe but even then would have to think about it. 

NCPaint,

Is the Natura as durable as say the Aura? I use Aura on cabinets for example - could Natura be substituted? I have to do some repaint in a restaurant and was considering the Natura for the quick dry and low odor as I will be out of there in time for them to open that afternoon. I would think anything going on a daycare walls would be great for a restaurant as well.


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## Woody (Jan 7, 2010)

Porter...Glyptex


puff...pufff



Stay Frosty


Harmony....lol


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

NCPaint1 said:


> Nothing that is similar to Natura. Maybe the ECO Spec under the Gennex platform. That is 0 VOC as well but not virtually odorless like the Natura.


I didn't mean comparable as in VOC or smell, more like what other BM line is comparible in terms of dry time, durability, hide, touch up etc. 

Just wondering if (as Tonyg asks above) Aura is the closest comparison or if it's closer to something like BEN

Thanks


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

Duration home, I used Natura with lackluster results last week (cost me time), I would stick with ProGreen 200 it covers really well.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I used Natura once so far (flat). It covered well, went on nice. No problems. For the money though, I would just use Aura.


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## Quaid? (Mar 13, 2009)

i would try to get time/materials for those damn cupboards


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

PaintinNC said:


> Just try them, Most SW's will deliver at the drop of a hat. All you have to do is talk to that rep (or store manager) and they will put the material on your jobsite pronto! If you are a new customer and a professional they will probably give you the first few gallons on a job just to get you to try them..... BTW I run a SW (so of course I am trying to get you to use SW, the Ben Moore guys will do the same thing) and I regularly deliver 50-60 miles from my store for customer deliveries. I have customers that have never set foot in my store. And Duration Exterior ROCKS!, easily the best exterior I have ever seen.


Nothing like SW going over the top and off topic, spewing pure irrelevance 

JOKE!!!


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Tonyg said:


> :no: I wouldn't use Harmony again if it was half price - free maybe but even then would have to think about it.
> 
> NCPaint,
> 
> Is the Natura as durable as say the Aura? I use Aura on cabinets for example - could Natura be substituted? I have to do some repaint in a restaurant and was considering the Natura for the quick dry and low odor as I will be out of there in time for them to open that afternoon. I would think anything going on a daycare walls would be great for a restaurant as well.


Nope, close but not as durable. The tints used are the same, but Aura has the "colorlock" technology that the other products dont. If they want durability, go Aura...if smell is a concern, use Natura. 

Could you do the job overnight? Smell would be almost gone by morning.


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

Quaid? said:


> i would try to get time/materials for those damn cupboards


Cupboards? Did you see the lockers?!

I stood there thinking, "how the heck do I estimate this?" I stood in front of one and worked through painting it. Estimated my time on one, times it by the amount of lockers, times by 50% for second coat and 30% on that for the fringe stuff (set up, break down, etc...).....looked at it.....hummed and hawed a few times...then rounded up....is that how it works???:whistling2:

Will be done over evenings and weekends.

As stated originally I'd always use Aura over Natura, unless the customer is hyper sensitive to smells or is the 110% eco granola type. 

To me Aura doesn't smell 'paint bad', it has a sort of mouldy smell....never been able to nail it down, sort of like someone just cooked something odd in the house, or sweaty socks on a heat rad.

Woody - to be honest I don't even know what "Porter...Glyptex" is. Then again, I've read numerous posts by you and I don't know what the heck your saying. :notworthy: :jester:


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## PaintinNC (Dec 20, 2009)

NCPaint1 said:


> Nothing like SW going over the top and off topic, spewing pure irrelevance
> 
> JOKE!!!


I guess service is irrelevant to a BM dealer.......JOKE! (not really)


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## SWGuy (Jun 26, 2009)

NCPaint1 said:


> Nothing like SW going over the top and off topic, spewing pure irrelevance
> 
> JOKE!!!


Are we a little sensitive from getting taken advantage of by BM corp all these years. How are those price increases going for you? It has to get old getting your rear kicked by SW year after year. 

Hmmm...I think we may be onto something here...


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## PaintinNC (Dec 20, 2009)

This site is way to BM anyways......... All you hear is BM this and BM that...... SW has them beat on a lot of fronts in a LOT of ways


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

NCpaint1, PaintingNC, SWguy;
I understand why you guys have a rivalry going and we appreciate having vendors here to answer our questions when it comes to products but there is no need to argue about who has the better products. Both sides are biased since you sell the products and you believe that you are correct, you will not sway the other side to see it your way. 

We have a lot of painters here that are BM guys and a lot of SW guys and that is good enough, no reason to bicker about it, chances are there will not be many converts to obtain as we painters stick with what works and what is comfortable to us.


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## PaintinNC (Dec 20, 2009)

Sorry about that, Just believe in what I sell....... Anybody got any SW questions just ask, that is our corporate motto......


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## Woody (Jan 7, 2010)

Porter Paints....has you ALL beat...
Price to quality ratio is "GREAT....... I'm getting a product that will stick to those cabnits, while your putting some $40 a gallon over priced, pay for my commercials, i have a store on everycorner BS.
NO THANKS..."I'll keep my money" O'le, Benny & SW, can "Suck eggs" 90% of the time.

I pay less for my Industrial paint...Than you "cherry's",.. pay for your bathroom paint.
(How am I doing...for starting some BS...lol)



Stay Frosty


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## PaintinNC (Dec 20, 2009)

Woody said:


> Porter Paints....has you ALL beat...
> Price to quality ratio is "GREAT....... I'm getting a product that will stick to those cabnits, while your putting some $40 a gallon over priced, pay for my commercials, i have a store on everycorner BS.
> NO THANKS..."I'll keep my money" O'le, Benny & SW, can "Suck eggs" 90% of the time.
> 
> ...


you have obviously never stepped foot into my SW.......If Porter is SOOOOO good , tell me how many times they have been bought and sold in the past 20 yrs? SW has always met or beat "apples to apples" quotes. Who owns Porter now? Pittsburgh? I can get Porter sold to met by a high school kid at my Ace hardware......


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

:icon_wink:


Woody said:


> Porter Paints....has you ALL beat...
> Price to quality ratio is "GREAT....... I'm getting a product that will stick to those cabnits, while your putting some $40 a gallon over priced, pay for my commercials, i have a store on everycorner BS.
> NO THANKS..."I'll keep my money" O'le, Benny & SW, can "Suck eggs" 90% of the time.
> 
> ...


Well, since we're all doing some paint bashing then I might as well jump in here and say that i'd put my HP2000 against your Porter any day of the week at that price point. (HP is around $30CAD/gal). 

General Paint kicks ass. All kinds of ass. 

Modestly, I must say. 

hA....Ha
Stay Frothy.


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

Alright its decided then....I'm using crayons....


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

:w00t:


Paint and Hammer said:


> Alright its decided then....I'm using crayons....


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## Woody (Jan 7, 2010)

Rcon said:


> :icon_wink:
> Well, since we're all doing some paint bashing then I might as well jump in here and say that i'd put my HP2000 against your Porter any day of the week at that price point. (HP is around $30CAD/gal).
> 
> General Paint kicks ass. All kinds of ass.
> ...


I saw that HP2000 on a Star Trek show...... You did know.."It"s Pretend..??"

My Glyptex was $47 retail....and MY price was $23.... It was the ONLY "non-Commercial/specialty grade latex paint...I paid over $15 for..

Who is General Paint...."Do you solute when you enter the store ?".... I meen ,one of there three stores.

Ra....rA..

Stay Frosty


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

General Paint makes good paint in Canada.
They are owned by the Comex Group now, so are many others so formulations may change.

Daycare Centres? 
Benjamin Moore Aura and Natura combination is the best choice 
taking Environmental concerns (customer's) and durability.
Natura in a higher sheen, for walls, and is the safest choice, so use lots of it
but not for trim, Aura is harder.
As for Harmony, sorry, not in the same league at all.
Daycare centres use colour, lots of colour. SW has nothing that is low VOC in strong colour, do they? Any other major manufacturer?


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## Woody (Jan 7, 2010)

George Z said:


> General Paint makes good paint in Canada.
> They are owned by the Comex Group now, so are many others so formulations may change.
> 
> Daycare Centres?
> ...



I would "Strongly" consider using this product... Nice pictures, Thanks !


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## PaintinNC (Dec 20, 2009)

Duration Home is less than 50 gpl of VOC and you can make accent colors with it. For 10 - 15$ less than Aura or Natura.......... And like I said at the begining of the post O VOC ACRYLIC industrial, it is DTM without voc's, comes in an ultradeep base would peform far better in this commercial setting than a residential product.......


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## Woody (Jan 7, 2010)

PaintinNC said:


> Duration Home is less than 50 gpl of VOC and you can make accent colors with it. For 10 - 15$ less than Aura or Natura.......... And like I said at the begining of the post O VOC ACRYLIC industrial, it is DTM without voc's, comes in an ultradeep base would peform far better in this commercial setting than a residential product.......


Yea...but, they don't have "good coffee"... and there's ALWAYS some College guy..asking; "can I help you" Knowing Darm well.. "he can't,really help anyone" but Grandma with his color computor.....just saying

Stay Frosty


This is fun....I like being a jerk


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

PaintinNC said:


> Duration Home is less than 50 gpl of VOC and you can make accent colors with it. For 10 - 15$ less than Aura or Natura.......... And like I said at the begining of the post O VOC ACRYLIC industrial, it is DTM without voc's, comes in an ultradeep base would peform far better in this commercial setting than a residential product.......


 
The question was:


> SW has nothing that is low VOC in strong colour, do they?


Let me clarify my question: *after* the colourants for deep bright colours are added, not before.
Yes, we know there is a deep base, but can't be used by itself, it needs colourants right?
What I am geting to is the following:

As a dealer, you don't have what B. Moore (or Mythic and some others) have.
So tell SW they are behind, and ask them to come up with something similar.



> For 10 - 15$ less than Aura or Natura..........


Who asked about the price comparison?


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## SWGuy (Jun 26, 2009)

George Z said:


> The question was:
> 
> 
> Let me clarify my question: *after* the colourants for deep bright colours are added, not before.
> ...


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## PaintinNC (Dec 20, 2009)

And by the way, before all you "ECO" friendly guys drink all the zero VOC Kool aide think about this.........How did that paint get to your BM Dealer? Probably on a huge diesel tractor trailer......even if AL GORE himself is driving the truck guess what, YOUR PAINT HAS CREATED VOCS! Truth is NOTHING is VOC free, truly....... If there is no MYTHIC dealer in your area, they ship it to you, VOCS again..........and all this is true of SWP as well, I am just saying think for yourselves a little.


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

> all you "ECO" friendly guys drink all the zero VOC Kool aide



You are condescending I think, and no, we are a bit smarter than you think. 
So, if you have a problem with the


> "zero VOC Kool aide"


this is all you have been selling here and even when we painters are not too stupid to buy it, you bring up the cheaper than Aura argument.
If you followed the discussions here for a while, the transportation issue has been discussed at length, the zero VOC panacea has been exposed as well and we get the "ECO" vs ECO thing.

Now, the sarcasm, the right wing BS and Al Gore comments,
they don't belong here, even if you are speaking for Sherwin Williams.




> SW has had 0 voc colorants for over 8 years. Long before BM came out with them. They are called Envirotoners. They can be used with any waterbased product.


Never heard of them.
Are they widely used and promoted?
Any information would be welcome.


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## SWGuy (Jun 26, 2009)

Envirotoners origionally came out for industrial and high performance coatings. Most stores have them, but no, it is not advertised. They are far superior to the regular glycol colorant that has been used for years by the paint industry. 
Stop in to any SW and ask for them, they are usaully kept in the back. I have certain customers who get all thier coatings tinted with them. Give them a shot and see what you think.


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## paintpimp (Jun 29, 2007)

For the ones who didnt like Harmony before, try it out now. I was really surprised at the performance of the new formulation. It covers very well, still a little "draggy" though. Look for new colorants with 0 Voc to be in stores later in the year.


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

PaintinNC said:


> And by the way, before all you "ECO" friendly guys drink all the zero VOC Kool aide think about this.........How did that paint get to your BM Dealer? Probably on a huge diesel tractor trailer......even if AL GORE himself is driving the truck guess what, YOUR PAINT HAS CREATED VOCS! Truth is NOTHING is VOC free, truly....... If there is no MYTHIC dealer in your area, they ship it to you, VOCS again..........and all this is true of SWP as well, I am just saying think for yourselves a little.


Ummm, the point is I was looking for information about a daycare with specific reasons for low smell and VOC's.

Thanks for spewing your eco rant though. 

Never could figure out the logic to the 'anti-eco' argument that if your aren't able to be 100% carbon footprint free (of course vehicles using fossil fuels bring the products) then don't bother at all? That argument makes no sense?

It's all the little bits and pieces that make the difference.....or hadn't you thought of that?


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## PaintinNC (Dec 20, 2009)

George Z said:


> You are condescending I think, and no, we are a bit smarter than you think.
> So, if you have a problem with the
> this is all you have been selling here and even when we painters are not too stupid to buy it, you bring up the cheaper than Aura argument.
> If you followed the discussions here for a while, the transportation issue has been discussed at length, the zero VOC panacea has been exposed as well and we get the "ECO" vs ECO thing.
> ...


Me, sarcastic? Just thought I would liven the place up a bit......:jester: In case you couldn't see I have belonged to this site for a few weeks, hardly long enough to pour through hundreds of old posts....but I am glad that the transportation thing has come up.........My political views are a little transparent I guess but we did just have the coldest Feb. here in the South that we have had in decades........just no proof to me, and I am not speaking for SW I am speaking for myself

BUT lets talk paint, Try o VOC Acrylic with envirotoners, :yes: Eco friendly if that is what you are aiming for.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

PaintinNC said:


> Me, sarcastic? Just thought I would liven the place up a bit......:jester: In case you couldn't see I have belonged to this site for a few weeks, hardly long enough to pour through hundreds of old posts....but I am glad that the transportation thing has come up.........My political views are a little transparent I guess but we did just have the coldest Feb. here in the South that we have had in decades........just no proof to me, and I am not speaking for SW I am speaking for myself
> 
> BUT lets talk paint, Try o VOC Acrylic with envirotoners, :yes: Eco friendly if that is what you are aiming for.


Way to hijack this guys thread.....what did he want to know again?


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Paint and Hammer said:


> Alright its decided then....I'm using crayons....


See you guys are going on and on and on for nothing he decided on a product, even offered the business a discount if the kids did their own lockers.

I was trying to think of a thread title to move the debate into it's own corner but am feeling a little uninspired.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Workaholic said:


> See you guys are going on and on and on for nothing he decided on a product, even offered the business a discount if the kids did their own lockers.
> 
> I was trying to think of a thread title to move the debate into it's own corner but am feeling a little uninspired.



He may be on to something with the crayons.......maybe offer up some chalkboard paint? :thumbup:


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> He may be on to something with the crayons.......maybe offer up some chalkboard paint? :thumbup:


I'm working on a new strategy to hire the 6 year olds and under.


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## blackstone (Nov 30, 2008)

Did a similar daycare myself... Used SW Harmony. Zero VOC, great performance. Give it a try. Great paint! SWGuy - you said it! BM is simply no longer competitive, and no longer a good choice for contractors.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

:stupid:


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## Woody (Jan 7, 2010)

It's all about prep work, and avoiding SW..."At ALL costs"

Make to many mistakes with colors, have NO idea what there doing, 1 in 3 orders "Is a mess"....one guy tryed to charge me $10 for a empty 5gal bucket becouse, he didn't have 5's of my material.."I ordered ,and PAYED for a week before"

The price is to high, and the staff sucks..along with the coffee.

"You just don't put latex on kids, play type areas..or high traffic areas... Porter; "Advantage 900" is the ONLY way to go in latex..UNLESS You visit your local BM dealer... sometimes Devoe/Glidden Commercial store "has the good stuff"

I would "at the very least"..Put Oil Primer on lockers...before applying Finish..
BUT, if NOT that, "scuff sand, with a palm sander, and apply Advantage 900, from Porter Paints


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## PaintinNC (Dec 20, 2009)

Woody said:


> It's all about prep work, and avoiding SW..."At ALL costs"
> 
> Make to many mistakes with colors, have NO idea what there doing, 1 in 3 orders "Is a mess"....one guy tryed to charge me $10 for a empty 5gal bucket becouse, he didn't have 5's of my material.."I ordered ,and PAYED for a week before"
> 
> ...



No kids working at my store, my part timer has 18 years with us. and I bet if you ever talked seriously with a SW rep you wouldn't think we were TOO HIGH......... If you buy enough we will make you what ever kind of coffee you want, the rep would probably take you out to Starbucks every morning if you want!


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

PaintinNC said:


> No kids working at my store, my part timer has 18 years with us. and I bet if you ever talked seriously with a SW rep you wouldn't think we were TOO HIGH......... If you buy enough we will make you what ever kind of coffee you want, the rep would probably take you out to Starbucks every morning if you want!


another reason I use SW regularly, they blow sunshine up my skirt at the drop of a hat.

_warm_ sunshine at that!

SW: Paid Lunch at the local brewpub, locations everywhere.

BM: Smelling delicious food at the *Our Town *event because it was "put away", and no local dealers that sell the paint I have vouchers for.

Oh I've had my fair share of issues with SW over the years, but they were all minor mistakes, and they _always_ took care of it that day.
BM is a gamble with every different dealer location.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

WisePainter said:


> SW: Paid Lunch at the local brewpub, locations everywhere.


If thats what floats your boat



WisePainter said:


> BM: Smelling delicious food at the Benjamin Moore Our Town event because it was "put away".


If I recall, you were an hour and a half late. Should they leave the food out so that you get food poisoning and have yet another complaint? Or should they have waited to start until you graced them with your presence?




WisePainter said:


> BM is a gamble with every different dealer location.


I can agree there. There are good dealers out there though.


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> If thats what floats your boat


Free food will always float my boat...





NCPaint1 said:


> If I recall, you were an hour and a half late. Should they leave the food out so that you get food poisoning and have yet another complaint? Or should they have waited to start until you graced them with your presence?


The schedule read 5~8 p.m. there was *no* set schedule for eating/chatting/stroking/etc. clearly displayed on the mailer. It was such a bust, they shut it down @ 7:30.
There were easily 200 hundred unclaimed name tags sitting on the table as the lights were being turned off.

*BM: Poor planning.

SW: Would have gone back into the kitchen, fired up the Viking range and tossed a few righteous steaks on. Fact.*


So I take my "Our Town" voucher for some Natura paint to the local dealer (15 minute drive) only to find out he is not going to stock it, seeing as though he is one foot in the grave right now (2nd largest BM dealer in town, and well known by all of the local painters).

His store looks like it was looted as a matter of fact.

...Yay...

SooOOoOoOOooooo I drove _another_ 15 minutes to get to the _other_ dealer in the area, and thankfully my "windshield time" was not a complete waste. They had it.


*Sherwin Williams* *> Benjamin Moore*


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