# Benjamin Moore Advance question



## Always Learning (Mar 24, 2012)

Has anyone ever clear coated a waterborne on top of Advance? If yes, how long did you wait?

I have a fine finish application on 3 mirror frames in an off white color. Bare maple received 2 coats of primer, then 3 coats of Advance....waited a full 16 hours between coats to allow a light sand and then recoat per MFR literature.

After the last top coat, I waited 9 days (70 degrees with 45% humidity environment), and then gentle as can be laid the frames face down to allow installing the mirror, then caulked per mirror suppliers recommendation, which then was left to cure for 24 hours.

UGH.....upon turning the frames over....it was clear the finish was still too soft ....MFR has a 28-30 day approx full cure time. Burnish marks were in the finish at spots....result would be fine for an average application, but not for bathroom mirror frames that require a very fine finish and are right in front of eye view with bright lights on them. 

I tried a light buff....but could not get a satisfactory result like existed after my last coat. No way am I waiting for Advance anymore. In hindsight the wrong product for this circumstance.

For the record....the paint leveled out awesome...it levels out so well that even a light sand with 320 grit between top coats is visible in the final finish. Before the last coat I had to fine sand with 600 to get the result preferred. So, the cure time is my problem and resultant handling issues.....technically I rushed the MFR stated cure time....and made a wrong assumption that in 9 days extremely gentle handling would be fine.

Whats done is done....I need to move forward....with a faster curing product. Now that the mirrors are installed, all I need is to achieve a flawless sheen....spraying another type of paint up to a mirror is not an option I will consider....due to the mirror reflection issue where wood abuts the mirror.

I have used General Finishes waterborne clear coats often, and none have yellowed, so would like to use these as a top clear coat. GF clears, (High Performance in particular) is a waterborne product, and I know for a fact I can achieve a durable enough surface for handling required in 2 days, if I use it....but with the Advance technically not yet being a full 30 day cure....do I treat it as an oil? Advance says recoat in 16 hours....but that assumes recoat with Advance? or does it not matter after 16 hours (in my case 9 days), if another coat is waterborne or oil. 

I realize Advance has water in it, and is thinned with water....I just cannot afford to assume. When I wash the present surface with water, it does not bead....making me think the waterborne clear should be fine???

Ben Moore closed today at 5PM eastern time, so I cannot get a reply from them. I am hoping to get a clear answer before Monday morning, rather than just assume, apply a waterborne clear...and make things worse.

Thanks for the consideration.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

You're approaching this dilemma from a painter's perspective, and may have become too paranoid with the results. I'd recommend turning the product over to the owner and wait for them to point out the flaws. 

You'd be surprised how little attention they'll pay to those things. Especially, when they're too busy admiring their cologin and Botox enhanced faces in the mirror.


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## Always Learning (Mar 24, 2012)

CApainter said:


> You're approaching this dilemma from a painter's perspective, and may have become too paranoid with the results. I'd recommend turning the product over to the owner and wait for them to point out the flaws.
> 
> You'd be surprised how little attention they'll pay to those things. Especially, when they're too busy admiring their cologin and Botox enhanced faces in the mirror.


Yes, very true....I am by far my worst critic. I asked my wife what she thought and all looked great to her eye, but I still have to answer to myself at the end of the day.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

I've clear coated it with Stays Clear acrylic Polly with no problems. I talked to my BM guys about it before hand, and they said it should be fine. 

There is a risk of yellowing from using Stays Clean over uncured alkyd paints, which Advance technically is, but it didn't happen to me over an off white finish. 

I got the idea to do it from another member on here. Here's the thread I started about it, 

http://www.painttalk.com/f2/stays-clear-over-advance-40889/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Always Learning (Mar 24, 2012)

Jmayspaint,

That was an awesome link...exactly the feedback I needed. Thank you. Your circumstance and experience seems to parallel mine exactly.

This was a full bath remodel I am contracting, and I knew beforehand, and has proved true since, that the customer is very particular, and that coupled with my own standards had me more than a little concerned. The mirrors I am finishing are to match factory finished cabinets, which further complicates the "blend" concerns, as 2 of the 3 mirrors abut the cabs. The customer is painting the walls and room trims for "sweat equity" and although it looks better than the contractor who finished their home....their result is clearly that expected from a homeowner. As a professional, we have a higher quality expected of us.

My experience is it is best to address something before a customer points it out, because then their full attention is drawn to the "issue". Much appreciate your timely reply. Project completion is in a couple of days, and I needed to get started now to allow some ability to troubleshoot and cure. 

Upon your feedback, I moved forward tonight and wet sanded with 1000 grit and applied a light coat of clear... so far looking great. I will follow up with final result. Usually I go back after a couple of weeks to take pics of the finished project.

Thanks again Jmayspaint...and to the others who also provided their experience to mine and your prior inquiry.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

In my experience, Advance is good for certain jobs only. Great finish, terrible blocking and cure times. A few years ago, I did a charcoal handrail in Advance gloss, and waited 21 days (Based on prior hassles) to top coat with Stays Clear. Meanwhile, 3 weeks of 4 family members hand's on railing, and little marks from items brought up stairs necessitated wet sanding (like in your case) to "fix" the finish.

Next time I'm using Breakthrough or SW ProIndustrial Multi Surface Acrylic. Also interested to hear more about SW's alkyd urethane acrylic. 3-4 week cure? Who's got time for that?


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## olepainter (Dec 31, 2013)

It will yellow! Customer of mine put clear over white & it yellowed. It's off white now.


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