# To caulk or not to caulk?....that is the question



## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

I wanted to get some feedback here. The carpenters did some work on some columns and added Dryvit on the base. They were going to caulk the bottom of the columns to the Dryvit, but since I was there to pressure wash I asked that they dont do any caulking (not to mention I had already seen some windows they caulked ) The more I thought about it, the more I felt caulking the bottom of the column to the Dryvit base was a bad idea. I feel any possible moisture needs a place to come out. Any thoughts? Thanks


----------



## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

For what its worth, I'd caulk it. It will look better and also prevent water thats sitting on the Dryvit from wicking up into the wood.


----------



## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

I'd probably caulk it too.

I'm guessing those posts are holding up some kinda ceiling...so probably not too much moisture to worry about.


----------



## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Is that MDO?


----------



## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

NEPS.US said:


> Is that MDO?


I believe its just HardiPlank with cedar trim on bottom. Im not sure about the corner moldings


----------



## Mike's QP (Jun 12, 2008)

I wouldn't caulk it, they will expand and contract at different rates and it will crack out.


----------



## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Well, were tied 2 to 2 so far


----------



## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

just caulk the miters an leave the bottom open........cleaner look without makin a mess all over the base esp with that .5'' gap you have there........


----------



## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

that middle pic with the .5'' gap is killin me. id rip off that trim an cut into the dryfit an flash then caulk then scribe new stuff to fit tight .......done right !


----------



## BreatheEasyHP (Apr 24, 2011)

That's an interesting use of dryvit. Poor color choice, though. It makes the color of the columns look funny instead of going with the stone. I'd grab some solid stain and get those dryvit column tops actually complimenting the rest of the paint job.

Is that wood right above the dryvit? If it is, I'd make my decision based on whether or not it was oil primed or thoroughly coated on that bottom-facing side. If it's just a porous surface I'd think caulking it would prevent almost assured rot. 

Have other people seen similar set-ups where the bottom edge rots? I've seen at least a few. I'm in an incredibly wet area; I wonder if it's a problem everywhere.


----------



## Ultimate (Mar 20, 2011)

Initially no. If the customer requested it I would say ok, but just so you know, if it were mine...... 

Done right like Ole said. In addition to. The miters would do better with a couple finishing nails to bring them together with a dab of glue applied prior to that. Then a little caulk on the miters. But customer likely isn't paying for all that I know.


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Just the corners.

In a few years when they call you back, probably assess if it's a problem area on the bottom.

P.s. I only replied because you're always good for a easy "Thanks".:jester:


----------



## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Thanks guys. The house is approx 5-10 yrs old. I washed it today. I havent painted anything yet. The Dryvit is going to paint too. It was put in to remedy the original bases that had dry rotted. My thoughts were to not caulk and have the carpenters come back, pull off the bottom trim on all 6 columns and start over.and tighten everything up where it meets the Dryvit. I actually photographed one of the better ones. Some are off even more and they had backing rod in and were about to caulk until I stopped them.


----------



## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

TJ Paint said:


> P.s. I only replied because you're always good for a easy "Thanks".:jester:


Lol, yeah I get that all the time.  I have "thanked" more times than I've posted. :thumbup:


----------



## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

If you leave it , how good do you think the chances are you'll get called back, just to caulk it later?

..and either stand around waiting to paint over it, or make (yet) another trip.

30 minutes now vs 1/2 day later

I'd caulk 'em.


----------



## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

"Steve, there's no way it would take me 30 minutes to caulk a few columns"

There, did it myself...


----------



## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

I have no problem caulking them. I was only concerned that sealing the bottom could trap moisture and cause a problem down the road, but it looks like most you guys feel that wouldnt be an issue so I probably will caulk them. Meanwhile, keep posting and I will keep "Thanking"


----------



## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

sweet!

Can I get a thanks just for thanking you for thanking me?


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Steve Richards said:


> sweet!
> 
> Can I get a thanks just for thanking you for thanking me?


Now it's getting a bit overboard...


----------



## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

TJ Paint said:


> Now it's getting a bit overboard...


 I dont know? I ended up with 4 "Thanks" so far :thumbsup: Tomorrow I'm starting a new thread......"Rolling....right to left or left to right? :jester:


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Woodland said:


> I dont know? I ended up with 4 "Thanks" so far :thumbsup: Tomorrow I'm starting a new thread......"Rolling....right to left or left to right? :jester:


I always say: let her decide...


----------



## Delta Painting (Apr 27, 2010)

If you don't caulk I hope the wood is back primed...


----------



## One Coat Coverage (Oct 4, 2009)

Caulk 'em, if they get rotted out, it will be your fault. I've seen it before.


----------



## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

HO: How come you didn't caulk the bottoms of these columns?

Woodland: Because it'll cause the wood to rot

HO: Maybe so, but it looks like hell.

Woodland: Would you rather have it look nice, or let your wood rot?

HO: *blank stare*

*Woodland jogs out to his truck for his caulking gun*


----------



## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

caulk it, the HO will forget your explanation about wood expansion but see that ugly crack every day


----------



## sagebrush123 (Mar 11, 2011)

use Big Stretch brand caulk...and NOT at the bottom where it meets dryvit.


----------



## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

Good call on the Bigstretch, Sagebrush.

I've only been using it for a few years, so I can't testify as to how it holds up long-term...

but so far I'm liking it just fine.


----------



## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

I've used Big Stretch and its a great product, but I feel SW "Shermax" is just as good. Dries very slow, but holds up very well too. Havent had a call back yet since I began using it.


----------



## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

The columns are under the porch, so they shouldnt see too much water. By the way, those are NOT my color samples on the side


----------



## sagebrush123 (Mar 11, 2011)

everything needs maintainance.....caulk, paint, stain, women(huh) etc.

nice photo of the house. the colors are pretty now and I like the landscaping, and damn you are lucky to be able to access the dormers easy on foot.

sher-max may be good too, I like a sw caulk I think it is powerhouse with silicone and elastomeric...so far so good on that too..inside and out.

have fun-


----------



## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

Rebuild them....add $6500.


----------



## DanielMDollaPainting (Feb 24, 2011)

Everybody likes everything caulked up tight today. Whether you calk or not, Chances are the wood will not last more than ten years anyway. Is it poplar? The poplar they make brick molding out of for door jams,trim is junk. I see it rot out at the bottom of the doors all the time in 5 to 7 years from installation.


----------



## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

I'd request a re-do on the outside miters. Yikers.


----------



## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> I'd request a re-do on the outside miters. Yikers.


 He already outbid me on this job by 1/3, he can't afford it now. lol


----------



## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

johnpaint said:


> He already outbid me on this job by 1/3, he can't afford it now. lol


 Lol Yeah....... I was waitin for that one when I started this thread. :whistling2:


----------



## Ultimate (Mar 20, 2011)

The wood is supposed to be some distance from the dryvit. Mind you the carpenters are poor in their ability to install level, but evenso there is some code somewhere that states installing certain siding boards a specific distance from shingles, a certain distance from band boards that are flashed properly, a certain distance from decking or cement patios, etc... Same goes for the end grain of trim, ie cornerboards, and I am sure the prolongated end of the boards belong a specific distance as well. The angle of the dryvit will allow for a closer installation of the trim because of the runoff, but caulking will trap any water that seeps in through failed caulk from above the 1" x 4" trim board to nestle in from behind the and cause rot. (Seriously it will eventually crack and it won't take long to get some water in there. I don't know how much it rains where you are)

If the trim is installed say 1/2" or maybe 1/4" because of the angle of the dryvit, there will be plenty of room for the area to breathe and any moisture to evaporate. If you caulk the bottom of it the water will not escape. 

There will be expansion and contraction. Nailing the corners of the miters together with a dab of glue will decrease the movement considerably. Without that first, the chance of the caulk on top of the 1" x 4" or the outside mitre failing increases. That means increased chance of water seeping in. If the bottom is caulked where is it going to go aside from inside the back of the trim piece to create mold? 

So along the timeline scale. Explaint to the HO the code. ( they are capable of understanding this theory even though many carpenters and painters never figure it out) Spend thirty minutes reinstalling them level and at a proper distance from the dryvit. (charge them) Caulk the tops and the miters. Listen to them tell their neighbors they wish they would have found you five years ago. 

Or make a water trap and explain your way out of the water trap you made for them the next time your competition explains the choice of the painter that did that to them last time and forced them to pay for wood replacement.


----------



## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

FatherandSonPainting said:


> The wood is supposed to be some distance from the dryvit. Mind you the carpenters are poor in their ability to install level, but evenso there is some code somewhere that states installing certain siding boards a specific distance from shingles, a certain distance from band boards that are flashed properly, a certain distance from decking or cement patios, etc... Same goes for the end grain of trim, ie cornerboards, and I am sure the prolongated end of the boards belong a specific distance as well. The angle of the dryvit will allow for a closer installation of the trim because of the runoff, but caulking will trap any water that seeps in through failed caulk from above the 1" x 4" trim board to nestle in from behind the and cause rot. (Seriously it will eventually crack and it won't take long to get some water in there. I don't know how much it rains where you are)
> 
> If the trim is installed say 1/2" or maybe 1/4" because of the angle of the dryvit, there will be plenty of room for the area to breathe and any moisture to evaporate. If you caulk the bottom of it the water will not escape.
> 
> ...


Thank you for taking the time to reply. Very good info. And the HO is in here reading this and will also appreciate your thoughts. He was at this site when he was looking for bids. Just in case anyone wonders if our customers ever come here? You pretty much cant miss PT in any search that has to do with painting :thumbsup:


----------



## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

Woodland said:


> And the HO is in here reading this and will also appreciate your thoughts. He was at this site when he was looking for bids.:


If that's the case I'd like to say that the HO made a good choice having you do the job. :thumbsup:


----------



## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

to go into detail over some points from my prior post. tough to see the materials used from the pics but I would deff remove the boards then cut into the dryvit an install some flashing making sure to wrap the edges then caulk where the flashing meets the dryvit this way if any water manages to splash up in there It will have nowhere to go an then re-install the boards after they're re-cut an scribed to fit with maybe 1/8'' gap ........no visible caulk bead is necessary now on the outside an you'll be left with a nice clean line.... if things were done correctly the first time we wouldnt have to caulk as much as we do an they say ''caulk is a carpenters best friend?'' where i come from we just make them re-do it


----------



## Ultimate (Mar 20, 2011)

Ole'

I think you are right that it should be flashed as well. It is hard to tell from the picture the materials used for those posts. 

Let's pretend they are 1" x 10" boards wrapped around a piling or post or whatever they call it up in the northwest. I am guessing it is trim wrapped around some beefy material because it is carrying the load of the roof. 1 x 10's won't carry that. 

Ok so, we have 1 x 10's wrapped around the post trimmed out with some interesting verticals we will call 1 x 2's for the sake of conversation and 1 x 4's at the bottom. If that is the case wouldn't it be easier to just tuck some z flashing from behind the 1 x 10 over to the front of the 1 x 4. I guess the only cut would be to the 1 x 10's and 1 x 2's so you could tuck the 1 x 4 under them after installing flashing. Four cuts per coulumn. You could even make it level again. 

If those are not 1 x 10's and that is just a piling with trim on it ignore this post!

If I am right about the design of the columns, flashing the trim pieces can be very affordable and attractive as well if you don't go with the plastic stuff from HD or Lowes. A job in the neighborhood of $300.00 plus materials for the six columns

1/8" probably isn't enough clearance but it isn't end grain against the dryvit either. Just sayin. Love ya mean it. 

Yes I know 98% won't do it but I like noticing the details. Flashing comes in some attractive metal colors nowadays. 

And I am probably wrong somewhere but I am looking at a pic on a screen.  cya?


----------



## RDK (Sep 22, 2011)

I agree with you I would caulk the miter but not to the Dryvit. Make sure its sealed on top and open on the bottom for water to escape. 




Woodland said:


> I wanted to get some feedback here. The carpenters did some work on some columns and added Dryvit on the base. They were going to caulk the bottom of the columns to the Dryvit, but since I was there to pressure wash I asked that they dont do any caulking (not to mention I had already seen some windows they caulked ) The more I thought about it, the more I felt caulking the bottom of the column to the Dryvit base was a bad idea. I feel any possible moisture needs a place to come out. Any thoughts? Thanks


----------



## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

FatherandSonPainting said:


> Ole'
> 
> I think you are right that it should be flashed as well. It is hard to tell from the picture the materials used for those posts.
> 
> ...


 Thanks John :thumbup:


----------



## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

Mental note:
never ask fatherandson if I should caulk something or not.


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Steve Richards said:


> Mental note:
> never ask fatherandson if I should caulk something or not.


"Thanks for the treatise on where carpentry meets painting..."


----------



## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Steve Richards said:


> Mental note:
> never ask fatherandson if I should caulk something or not.


I am grateful for the time he took to reply and also was quite impressed with his knowledge. No wonder he gets to paint huge beach houses in NC. They are lucky to have a painter with his skills. :thumbsup:


----------



## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

By the way, I dont do carpentry work. My carpentry skills are very limited, although I did manage to build a 3 story tree house for my 6 yr old son this summer and only cut the cord on one skillsaw.


----------



## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

Woodland said:


> I am grateful for the time he took to reply and also was quite impressed with his knowledge. No wonder he gets to paint huge beach houses in NC. They are lucky to have a painter with his skills. :thumbsup:


I agree 100%...but I can't help but imagine what working on an average job with him might be like..

"should I caulk this fatherandson?" 
"No you shouldn't caulk that because _________________________________, Steve"

"should I caulk this faterandson?"
"yes you should caulk that because_______________________________________, Steve"

"should I caulk this fatherandson?"
"Just gimme the GD gun and go sit in the truck, Steve"


----------



## Ultimate (Mar 20, 2011)

Tears are forming I am laughing so much!


----------



## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Well............................................................................................................................


----------



## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Steve Richards said:


> I agree 100%...but I can't help but imagine what working on an average job with him might be like..
> 
> "should I caulk this fatherandson?"
> "No you shouldn't caulk that because _________________________________, Steve"
> ...


Thats some funny stuff there :thumbup:


----------



## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

i want to see the finish job !! ......


----------



## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

would it have killed you to add some glue an a few nails or perhaps a ''screw'' even ???......ehhh guess it doesnt matter, gonna split open regardless in the long run..........an wheres the pic of the caulk job on that big 1/2'' gap in the 2nd pic ??


----------



## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

I'll take a few more photos.


----------



## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Where do you get the blue caulk?


----------



## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

chrisn said:


> Where do you get the blue caulk?


It does look kinda blue. Its probably just the camera on the phone. The caulking is Shermax clear.


----------



## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

I don't care for clear caulk.

I'm always going around wondering if I forgot to caulk something, and then walking up to it, just to make sure.


----------



## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

Steve Richards said:


> I don't care for clear caulk.
> 
> I'm always going around wondering if I forgot to caulk something, and then walking up to it, just to make sure.


 

do yourself a favor an stay away from poly :whistling2:


----------



## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

i just happen to walk by this column today during my travels .............NOT MY WORK !!! ............... im not crazy about how this was done or even looks for that matter but its an OPTION


----------



## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

Did the HO's see you up on their porch takin' pics, Oly?


----------



## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

Steve Richards said:


> Did the HO's see you up on their porch takin' pics, Oly?


 nah that pics from an APT complex ..........had to do a double take when i walked past an was like '' Hmm my good deed for the day''


----------



## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

Woulda been a better deed had you cleaned the paint off that stone for 'em...


----------



## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Lol


----------



## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

Steve Richards said:


> Woulda been a better deed had you cleaned the paint off that stone for 'em...


 
i would have had i not zeroed in on the learning moment for PaintTalk .......


----------



## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

HA!

Ok then..thanks for teaching us!


----------



## NMT Home Repair (Sep 25, 2011)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> For what its worth, I'd caulk it. It will look better and also prevent water thats sitting on the Dryvit from wicking up into the wood.




While understanding the moisture problem, not caulking would in turn let more moisture in than it would let out. Weep holes in bottom would be more sufficient since seeming looking at pics there was no base installed to allow it to escape. Unfortunately someone will be replacing the wood regardless what you do in a couple years or so. Suggest using something other than latex or acrylic as well. I most likely go with Siroflex of matching color. Hope this helps.


----------



## Ultimate (Mar 20, 2011)

Painters don't know anything.


----------



## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

^ oh brother ^


----------



## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

[email protected] Steve ........... :no: so easy a caveman can do it


----------



## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

I thought I was picky then I met F&S ......thats whats up though, im the same way an take my work to an entirely different level an good **** with that diagram you have there ......exactly how i would have done it :thumbsup:


----------



## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

i can see a guy on his crew messin up a caulk joint then gettin like an hour long sitdown followed by some ''film'' time NFL style with re-winds an highlights lol


----------



## Ultimate (Mar 20, 2011)

No I just send him to the competition to ask for a job. I'm just not going to allow some other contractor the ability to come behind me and criticize and take my repeat customer from me. It's typically a house worth at least a quarter million dollars I am being entrusted to work on. It's respect for their property that they paid good money for. I take it serious. I took classes to get a GC lisence along with in field experience so I have learned a couple things in twenty years doing this. It's just as easy to do it right as it is to come back and do it over. Costs less for the HO to do it right the first time and saves my rep. That's thinking like a long term investor. 

The diagram is from a code book I snapped a photo is all.


----------



## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

Easy fatherandson...

You gotta know I'm only teasing.

No way I wanna be on your SL.


----------



## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

FatherandSonPainting said:


> It's just as easy to do it right as it is to come back and do it over. Costs less for the HO to do it right the first time and saves my rep.


A guy that manages a SW store has this saying all the time, he tells everybody. He'll tell ya over and over even though he knows he told ya already and even though he knows you remember him telling ya:

"If you don't have the time to do it right the first time, how are you going to have time to fix it?":thumbup:


----------



## Ultimate (Mar 20, 2011)

Steve Richards said:


> Easy fatherandson...
> 
> You gotta know I'm only teasing.
> 
> No way I wanna be on your SL.


Your my favorite person here Steve aside form the queen.  Sorry I did get a tad defensive. Thanks I appreciate your friendship. TJ and Ole and everyone here really. Ok man time is over now.


----------



## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Thanks again for all the replies, and thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge John. Be nice to see more photos of those cool beach houses your painting


----------



## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

The thread that wouldn't die....

*sharpening a wooden stake*


----------



## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

Steve Richards said:


> The thread that wouldn't die....
> 
> *sharpening a wooden stake*


 
yeah really...over 70 posts an MIKES customer is reading it as well lol my worst nightmare


----------



## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Just for Ole :thumbup: And now for some reason anytime I see columns, I think of Ole, Richard, and this thread. And I will probably never be able to pick up a caulking gun again and not think of John telling Richard...."Just give me the damn caulking gun and go sit in the truck"  LOL


----------



## Delta Painting (Apr 27, 2010)

They look good mang I hope they last...


----------

