# Question for Hardiplank painter



## Carl (Jun 18, 2011)

I'm going to be painting a house that is about 6 years old with a fair amount of peeling on the Hardiplank siding. About 2 years ago, I did some touching up on this siding while I was there doing some other work and everything I touched up peeled again within a year, so I'm worried to paint the entire house of course. The house was painted with Super Paint Flat. Even though all the James Hardie documentation doesn't deter the use of flat paint, in my mind as a painter, flat is something I would never choose for this type of substrate. So my question is this: is it possible that the paint is peeling because the paint is flat? I realize there are likely some underlying conditions causing this paint to peel (for example, the siding is installed in some places directly against the roof shingles). I'm hoping there are some guys out there that have a ton of experience painting Hardiplank with all kinds of sheens that can give me some feedback.


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

Carl said:


> I'm going to be painting a house that is about 6 years old with a fair amount of peeling on the Hardiplank siding. About 2 years ago, I did some touching up on this siding while I was there doing some other work and everything I touched up peeled again within a year, so I'm worried to paint the entire house of course. The house was painted with Super Paint Flat. Even though all the James Hardie documentation doesn't deter the use of flat paint, in my mind as a painter, flat is something I would never choose for this type of substrate. So my question is this: is it possible that the paint is peeling because the paint is flat? I realize there are likely some underlying conditions causing this paint to peel (for example, the siding is installed in some places directly against the roof shingles). I'm hoping there are some guys out there that have a ton of experience painting Hardiplank with all kinds of sheens that can give me some feedback.


I always use flat...never any problems...I've never had any significant peeling prior to painting but I've heard you can use loxon masonry primer to spot prime..never done it though...


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

richmondpainting said:


> I always use flat...never any problems...I've never had any significant peeling prior to painting but I've heard you can use loxon masonry primer to spot prime..never done it though...


 
for what earthly reason?


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Not at all likely that the lack of sheen is causing failure. 
If the siding was installed, or set around outside very long before it was painted, the factory primer could have deteriorated. That seems to me to be the most likely cause. The Hardie needs to be painted fairly soon after instillation. I think the specs say 180 days. (Gough)

Does it seem chalky under the peeling? If so that's a good indicator of deteriorated primer. 

I would pressure wash, and prime with loxon before paint.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I have yet to see hardi peel like you describe on one of my jobs, and only a few times on houses in person. We have painted tons of it here in the last decade, and will be painting some this week in flat. 

I would want my rep out to check this one before I do anything.


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

I've painted tons of it and have never seen it peel. I've even painted over unprimed Hardi without priming, GASP!, (company I worked for at the time) and those houses still look good from 10+ years ago. I firmly believe that it holds paint better than any other siding, so if you are having that bad of peeling problems, especially after only 6 years, it has to be a problem with the siding. 

Maybe if you pressure wash it really good, and coat everything with sealkrete or something similar? I've never done that, but I would look for something that will totally seal the surface. Or get a hardiplank rep out there to look at it.


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## premierpainter (Apr 17, 2007)

It was installed against the rooflines when it first came out. THen they realized that it would peel because it was absorbing water. Now they lift it up off of the rooflines almost a foot. If these areas are the areas that are peeling, they need to be cut up off of the roof. Cement does absorb water, hence paint peeling


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## SeaMonster (Apr 13, 2009)

are you sure it's Fiber Cement and not LP?

I've only seen hardie peel one time and it was the $3 gallon paint the builders put on.


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## AbsolutePainting (Feb 9, 2011)

premierpainter said:


> It was installed against the rooflines when it first came out. THen they realized that it would peel because it was absorbing water. Now they lift it up off of the rooflines almost a foot. If these areas are the areas that are peeling, they need to be cut up off of the roof. Cement does absorb water, hence paint peeling


This has been my experience as well. Any lap that has been cut and not re-sealed in a splash prone area wicks water like crazy. Working on some 7 year old condos where paint and siding itself is flaking in layers near the ground.


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## Carl (Jun 18, 2011)

Yea it's Hardiplank. I got confirmation from the builder who claims this is the only house he built with this peeling problem. I also painted some cedar boards outside that were peeling like crazy, scraped and oil primed and those boards are peeling again too. I am not so concerned with areas near the roofline because at least I know the reason why those areas would peel, but when I see peeling in the middle of the house and in other random areas, I know something isn't right.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Is it an innercoat failure, or down to bare?


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## Carl (Jun 18, 2011)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Is it an innercoat failure, or down to bare?


It's hard to say since I don't know what bare cement board looks like and the job is in another state so it's been a while since I seen it. All I have is pics for now, but I'm pretty sure that when I primed and touched up, those areas peeled again and took the primer with it.


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## SeaMonster (Apr 13, 2009)

What paint is it?


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## TLC Painting (Feb 18, 2013)

Carl said:


> It's hard to say since I don't know what bare cement board looks like and the job is in another state so it's been a while since I seen it. All I have is pics for now, but I'm pretty sure that when I primed and touched up, those areas peeled again and took the primer with it.


Carl,
I looked at your photo, What side of the house is this on?
Also was the hardie plank power washed and primed before topcoat was applied?
Primers worth looking into are peel bond or some type of primer made for adhesion problems,
And Flat paint for reals?
Use low sheen or Satin finish better performance 
Vs. Flat.
I always Prime all new construction materials even if its factory primed.
Do the best you can, Otherwise Why bother?


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## Carl (Jun 18, 2011)

It's Super Paint Flat. The house is only 6 years old. I don't know what process the painters used when the house was being constructed and even if I could ask the builder I doubt he would remember either or admit to anything. At the very least, I was going to use a low sheen paint. I was just wondering if the coating failure could be blamed entirely on the sheen choice...the consensus seems to be it cannot. Also, this is the back of the house and gets a ton of sun. All sides of the house have peeling areas though, but the back is certainly the worst.


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## SeaMonster (Apr 13, 2009)

Flat on hardie is what we do and this never happens. Something special is happening here and I doubt you'll find out what it is. I would get in touch with siding manufacturer and show the client you are doing what they recommend. How did you end up painting a house in another state?


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

If the factory primer is failing, I'd get a Hardi rep involved.

If its an inner-coat failure I'd want my paint rep involved. Its tough to tell by the picture, but it could be many things causing the failure. But its more than likely the first painters went over dirt and/or chalk. I'd check the adhesion of the existing coating in many spots around the home before proceeding with any remedy though.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I would bet water is getting behind that siding at the windows up top.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

straight_lines said:


> I would bet water is getting behind that siding at the windows up top.


SL beat me to it. After seeing that picture and the location of the peeling, I would also second the notion that water is seeping from around the windows and down under the siding below.


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## premierpainter (Apr 17, 2007)

YEp I agree, water is getting in behind the siding. Looks like there was no drip edge installed under that deck or whatever that is.


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## S.LUCAS PAINTS (Jul 18, 2013)

as i remember hardi plank was warrenty voided unless 2coated with duration,,either way i would use a product called peel stop from zinsser(it encapsulates stuck on paint to nonstick areas ) then paint with any high quality exterior comes in clear also


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

premierpainter said:


> YEp I agree, water is getting in behind the siding. Looks like there was no drip edge installed under that deck or whatever that is.


What he said


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## Northwest_painter (Jan 27, 2012)

S.LUCAS PAINTS said:


> as i remember hardi plank was warrenty voided unless 2coated with duration,,either way i would use a product called peel stop from zinsser(it encapsulates stuck on paint to nonstick areas ) then paint with any high quality exterior comes in clear also


That is a false statement. there is a list of over a hundred paint brands Hardi recommends from top of the line to heaven for bid the box store paints. Any James Hardi rep will tell you that It has to be painted with in six months of being installed. they never ever state what brand of paint to use just their recommendations from their spec sheet.


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## vINYlpaInts4352 (Jan 31, 2014)

*Reply*

If I'm not mistaken, one feature of Hardie is that it can be painted by any brand of paint available. I think this might help you.


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

Water leak(s) .... fwiw its common knowledge here (MN) that Hardie is impossible to get paint to stick to. I avoid it like the plague. Tried bonding primer, loxon, superpaint you name it. Its never total failure, but it seemed like every house would have 3 or 4 patches a couple years later that were peeling. Maybe where the water leaks were?? 

The only experience I have is the spec houses a few buddies built in the earlh 2000's. Can't say I'm too proud of any em.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

bryceraisanen said:


> Water leak(s) .... fwiw its common knowledge here (MN) that Hardie is impossible to get paint to stick to. I avoid it like the plague. Tried bonding primer, loxon, superpaint you name it. Its never total failure, but it seemed like every house would have 3 or 4 patches a couple years later that were peeling. Maybe where the water leaks were??
> 
> The only experience I have is the spec houses a few buddies built in the earlh 2000's. Can't say I'm too proud of any em.


I'm curious about this because every paint issue that I've seen with HardiPlank has been directly attributable to faulty installation, more specifically, not following the manufacturer's specifications.

The problem areas seem to be mostly due to improper clearance at decks, sidewalks, intersecting roofs, stairs, window heads, etc. as well as failure to install kickout flashings.

Overall, the biggest problem area we've seen in the houses built since ~2000 is improper flashing details around windows. We're seeing more and more paint, and even siding, failure in those places. 

Is there a pattern to the locations where you're seeing this problem?


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

Gough said:


> I'm curious about this because every paint issue that I've seen with HardiPlank has been directly attributable to faulty installation, more specifically, not following the manufacturer's specifications.
> 
> The problem areas seem to be mostly due to improper clearance at decks, sidewalks, intersecting roofs, stairs, window heads, etc. as well as failure to install kickout flashings.
> 
> ...


Yeah, itll definitely fail the paint and even the siding if the items you mentioned are not installed correctly. But I did not seem to notice any pattern on the ones I worked on. Two houses with the exact same blueprint, paint fail in different areas.


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