# Buffing Satin Clear?



## VanDamme (Feb 13, 2010)

Imagine a gloss black baby grand piano.......how it's buffed out to a perfect finish that's just beautiful to look at.

Now........any suggestions how I could achieve the same quality of finish only using a satin clear over black instead of gloss without scratching the crap out of it or turning it in to a semi-gloss/gloss finish?

I'm not sure there is a method.

I've tried Rotton Stone w/olive oil and it still made the clear too glossy.

This is on a dining room set that I painted black, distressed all the edges and cleared.


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## Cusingeorge (Jan 19, 2008)

What is the sheen of the clear you shot?

And, what kind of clear is it (lacquer, precat, CV, urethane, etc..)?


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## VanDamme (Feb 13, 2010)

My bad. Satin poly.


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## Cusingeorge (Jan 19, 2008)

I think what you are trying to do is get the film as slick as a grand piano, that's hard to do without making glossy. When they finish those pianos, they have to sand the finish as smooth as they can, then machine buff it back to the mirror sheen we are used to seeing.

What I think you'll end up doing is sanding the finish level smooth (without dips, ripples or dents) and this may take a while if you don't have enough finish on the wood to allow for this kind of sanding without burning through. Once you've got the surface level, recoat with a thinned coat of your poly under the cleanest, static free conditions you can possibly produce.

After all this is done and the finish is defect free, allow it to dry a few days, then come back with a crumpled up paper sack and use it like you would a sanding sponge, only not as much pressure. This should remove the nibs and loose debris from the surface and also help level out any overspray without buffing the finish.

I've done this with precats and CV's so I can't see why it wouldn't work with a poly, so long as it's good and dry.

If you are not sure, practice, practice, practice.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

I've done this a few times and George is right about how he goes about it. I use a 0000 steel wool, blow it off, and hit it with a final shot through my cup gun. One of the nicest finishes I obtained was using a two-part varnish in a satin sheen through the cup gun. Darn near bullet proof and furniture quality smoothness.


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## Msargent (Jan 16, 2009)

Brown paper bag and mineral oil is ok after a couple of coats too


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Msargent said:


> Brown paper bag and mineral oil is ok after a couple of coats too


Sounds good to me, have you tried this yourself?


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## VanDamme (Feb 13, 2010)

Thanks guys!

I painted w/3 coats of PPG "Breakthrough"

Applied 4 coats of Zinsser "Satin Quick-15", wet sanding with 320 and 600 between coats.

Final coat was Defthane Satin Poly, applied with a cup gun.

Will buff a touch with the paper bag and oil Monday or Tuesday.

Wish I had an extra $250,000 laying around for a nice spray booth!


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## DHlll (Dec 22, 2010)

try applying butchers wax with 000 steel wool, let dry to a haze then buff with clean white cotton rag. i did that with some ballet bars in a dance studio and wow!!!!


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

RO150 polish out to 6000 grit using Satin Ultramax. I posted some pics of it somewhere, thought it was here. Dean V and those guys were all like "oh what are you gonna get into piano finishes now?"


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## woi2ld (Oct 1, 2011)

vermontpainter said:


> RO150 polish out to 6000 grit using Satin Ultramax. I posted some pics of it somewhere, thought it was here. Dean V and those guys were all like "oh what are you gonna get into piano finishes now?"


 holy !!!! Allll the way down to 6000 huh. I hav to do 'baby grand piano' type finishes on a daily bases...........wet sand with 1000G till flat.....then remove the 1000G scratches with 1500G wet/dry sandpaper........then buff with ANY brand 1500 CUT compound.....using a WOOL pad...only between 1000-1600 RPM = mirror finish:thumbup:


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## VanDamme (Feb 13, 2010)

vermontpainter said:


> RO150 polish out to 6000 grit using Satin Ultramax. I posted some pics of it somewhere, thought it was here. Dean V and those guys were all like "oh what are you gonna get into piano finishes now?"


Scott, Not familiar with Satin Ultramax. Could you elaborate a bit?

I'm doing another dining set now with the same finishes.

The customer of the dining set I just finished couldn't be happier, but I want to up the final quality on the table top if I can. Baby Grand Piano-esque only in satin.


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## VanDamme (Feb 13, 2010)

woi2ld said:


> holy !!!! Allll the way down to 6000 huh. I hav to do 'baby grand piano' type finishes on a daily bases...........wet sand with 1000G till flat.....then remove the 1000G scratches with 1500G wet/dry sandpaper........then buff with ANY brand 1500 CUT compound.....using a WOOL pad...only between 1000-1600 RPM = mirror finish:thumbup:


Are you using this process for a satin finish or gloss finish?

I'm attempting to find a system I can use to buff-out black table tops with a satin finish.


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## woi2ld (Oct 1, 2011)

VanDamme said:


> Are you using this process for a satin finish or gloss finish?
> 
> I'm attempting to find a system I can use to buff-out black table tops with a satin finish.


gotcha. I'm re-reading through this thread and think im better understanding now. Sorry i'm a bit of a differnt type painter than you guys but wanna hang out a bit. My process ther was for gloss..u cant mirror out a satin paint , you may get close , but it wont last. But i dont even think your saying that...I think the finish your trying to get is identical to what i hav to acheive on the show room floor @ the Harley dealerships. They call it 'Denim Black'...i can give u that process and you can pull it off with-out a $250,000 booth i promise:yes:


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## VanDamme (Feb 13, 2010)

woi2ld said:


> gotcha. I'm re-reading through this thread and think im better understanding now. Sorry i'm a bit of a differnt type painter than you guys but wanna hang out a bit. My process ther was for gloss..u cant mirror out a satin paint , you may get close , but it wont last. But i dont even think your saying that...I think the finish your trying to get is identical to what i hav to acheive on the show room floor @ the Harley dealerships. They call it 'Denim Black'...i can give u that process and you can pull it off with-out a $250,000 booth i promise:yes:


Yeah.....if I was doing gloss, I'd be golden. The dilemma is how to achieve a flaw-free finish w/a satin clear without making it glossy by buffing out the final coat.

I'd like to hear about Denim Black process!


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## woi2ld (Oct 1, 2011)

VanDamme said:


> Yeah.....if I was doing gloss, I'd be golden. The dilemma is how to achieve a flaw-free finish w/a satin clear without making it glossy by buffing out the final coat.
> 
> I'd like to hear about Denim Black process!


 

im using a two component urethane DBU2060 and u can add another two component urethane high gloss clear to that to adjust to any finish . Now , im pretty shure i can pull this off with the same paints u guys are using , but this is wat i use. Now you can buff gloss to a perfect OEM finish but not satin. Maybe ther's a few people that can , plz tell, but my ways still faster and easier. I mostly use an open face side-draft booth but can get the xact same results with a fan blowing out of an open door. Wet sweep a large area while the fan is running out the door.Blow clean the top of the table with high pressure.If you can angle the top of the table towards the side draft it would help. If u dont wear a clean suit, blow your clothes inside and out for a few minutes.(outside the area of course) mix your paint, strain into gun. Put your mask on , blow the top of the table again whipping the blower from like a centimeter away, every inch of the table, make shure its blown clean. After youve sprayed and your happy with your flow , you shouldnt hav mor than half dozen nibs if you set-up prepped / cleand well. Now here's were the magic happens. Your going to hav to find a window between were the paint is dust free/still wet and just barely dry enough for u to nib. Cup of water and a 3"x3" piece of 1000G wet paper curled like a "C" between two fingers , barely barely rubb across those nibs , just a couple of strokes here and ther removes them , ther soft. Blow off the water. mor magic , swing your gun pull trigger and release while still swinging , real quick , just those spots. Im doing this on flawless $30,000 brand new bikes , it will work on furniture.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

VanDamme said:


> Scott, Not familiar with Satin Ultramax. Could you elaborate a bit?
> 
> I'm doing another dining set now with the same finishes.
> 
> The customer of the dining set I just finished couldn't be happier, but I want to up the final quality on the table top if I can. Baby Grand Piano-esque only in satin.


Satin Ultramax is a Zar waterborned oil modified urethane. 

I actually retract my above statement, the demo I did ended up super high glass. If the idea is to polish TO a satin finish, I would burnish instead of polish.


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## woi2ld (Oct 1, 2011)

vermontpainter said:


> I actually retract my above statement, the demo I did ended up super high glass. If the idea is to polish TO a satin finish, I would burnish instead of polish.


i retract to. I googled baby grand piano to double check wat i remember, and they all appeard super high gloss , but i seen one with a satin front by the keyboard. I was wrong for saying my ways best, every man has his way of exacuting the task and i find it frign' really interesting , or i wouldnt be here. mineral oils , paper bags , butchers wax , 000&0000 steel wool, cotton rags now burnishing.


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## John Murray (Oct 12, 2011)

I have had some sucess with windex...you can try buffing with IPA, start in an area that will not show and check to see if you are melting the coating


VanDamme said:


> Imagine a gloss black baby grand piano.......how it's buffed out to a perfect finish that's just beautiful to look at.
> 
> Now........any suggestions how I could achieve the same quality of finish only using a satin clear over black instead of gloss without scratching the crap out of it or turning it in to a semi-gloss/gloss finish?
> 
> ...


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