# Prep Before Solid Stain



## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

Looked at a house yesterday. Three sides need to be stained. Some of the siding is pine shingles and clapboards that seem to have never had anything put on them.


Some of the siding is pine with a semi-transparent oil stain.

And the final side seems to be cedar shingles and clapboards. The shingles seem to have had nothing on them, and the clapboards might have had some stain.

The HO wants a solid stain put on all of it. So, my questions is all of this has gray wood (see pictures). Do I have to get rid of the grey wood before I stain? And if so is sanding the best approach after it is cleaned. Or should I use BM Restore and Brightener. I am a bit hesitant to do the later of the two because I do not have a lot of experience with power washer and do not want to ruin the wood.

If I do decide to use the Restore and Brightener, Is a power washer needed to remove the dead wood? In other words, do I need to be experienced to remove the grey wood with a power washer. Last time that I used the Restore directions noted that I can use a hose to wash off after using a stiff brush, so I am assuming that this is something I can do without concern of ruining the wood.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

We use cleaners and PW. Garden hose will work as well.

No need to sand if you do use a cleaner. Plus sanding will take a while, and you being a one man show this will take a while.

Pete we should get to gether some time, give you some pointers on cleaning with a PW and spraying with airless.

So many people in New England like the grayed out look so much Cabots came out with a cape cod gray which is darn close to this.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Pete the Painter said:


> Looked at a house yesterday. Three sides need to be stained. Some of the siding is pine shingles and clapboards that seem to have never had anything put on them.
> 
> 
> Some of the siding is pine with a semi-transparent oil stain.
> ...


You should get rid of the grey wood, you'll get better adhesion. I'd go with the brightener and PW, although the stiff brush would probably do the job.

What color stain? You may need to prime before applying a solid stain to the cedar in order to eliminate tannin bleed.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

Gough said:


> You should get rid of the grey wood, you'll get better adhesion. I'd go with the brightener and PW, although the stiff brush would probably do the job.
> 
> What color stain? You may need to prime before applying a solid stain to the cedar in order to eliminate tannin bleed.


Stain will be grey. So should have no problem with tanin. Will put in contract that primer needed if they decide to go with light color.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

cdpainting said:


> We use cleaners and PW. Garden hose will work as well.
> 
> No need to sand if you do use a cleaner. Plus sanding will take a while, and you being a one man show this will take a while.
> 
> ...


Dave, you would not get rid of the grey wood? Or do you think claening with a stiff brush and then using power washer to spray off will be enough? And, yes I agree we should get together. Maybe some weekend when things slow down a bit.


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

Yes, remove the grey!
Just last week we spent a day scraping solid stain off one side of a house. Underneath the paint was grey wood. These were new shingles 7 years ago and they had also been oil primed.


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

Pete the Painter said:


> Stain will be grey. So should have no problem with tanin. Will put in contract that primer needed if they decide to go with light color.


Tannin will show through as brown staining, so grey will not hide it. And cedar can always leach no matter how old the shingles. I always oil prime cedar if going with acrylic stain. Even then I have had tannin bleed.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Ugh… cedar shingles. Just one of the reasons I don't miss doing exteriors.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Pete the Painter said:


> Dave, you would not get rid of the grey wood? Or do you think claening with a stiff brush and then using power washer to spray off will be enough? And, yes I agree we should get together. Maybe some weekend when things slow down a bit.


Yes get rid of the gray. I myself wouldn't sand, cleaners/conditioners/brighteners is how I would do it. If you don't want to PW use a garden hose and stiff brush.

Any time Pete, as for slowing down we are pretty booked for the winter already. Weekends I am leaving free, no need to go 7 days a week this winter.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

RH said:


> Ugh… cedar shingles. Just one of the reasons I don't miss doing exteriors.


We have 2 exteriors going right now our 4th and 5th of the season. I already miss interiors.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Pete like other said do prime first with a solid stain primer. Cali makes a great solid stain primer.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

cdpainting said:


> We have 2 exteriors going right now our 4th and 5th of the season. I already miss interiors.



I have a love hate relationship with exteriors. I really enjoy working outside, but I do not enjoy all of the prep work that is inherent of exteriors. Plus I hate dealing with big ladders. Luckily I have already told the HO that this house will have to be done in the Spring. Looking at another exterior tomorrow that will most likely have to be next year.


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## NACE (May 16, 2008)

The gray patina is a trees natural reaction to being cut by forming its own protective ash or natural sunblock, insect, and disease protection if a branch falls off in its natural environment. It is the breakdown of lignin and cellulose in addition to some other components that are porous and unstable. If not removed, most coatings will be absorbed into the instability of the unstable material and not anchor to the more stable wood. The coating becomes resin starved and does not form a proper film or tight adhesion. The film or stain break down prematurely. A wood restorer then brightener is best to remove this patina so the aesthetics and natural pattern of the wood is not compromised by sanding. Always oil prime tannin rich woods. A long oil primer is best vs a short oil or fast dry primer.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

NACE said:


> The gray patina is a trees natural reaction to being cut by forming its own protective ash or natural sunblock, insect, and disease protection if a branch falls off in its natural environment. It is the breakdown of lignin and cellulose in addition to some other components that are porous and unstable. If not removed, most coatings will be absorbed into the instability of the unstable material and not anchor to the more stable wood. The coating becomes resin starved and does not form a proper film or tight adhesion. The film or stain break down prematurely. A wood restorer then brightener is best to remove this patina so the aesthetics and natural pattern of the wood is not compromised by sanding. Always oil prime tannin rich woods. A long oil primer is best vs a short oil or fast dry primer.


Thanks, I kind of figured that the grey needed to be removed. But, since I do not use stain a whole lot I was not sure if the same rules apply to stain as they do to paint.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

NACE said:


> The gray patina is a trees natural reaction to being cut by forming its own protective ash or natural sunblock, insect, and disease protection if a branch falls off in its natural environment. It is the breakdown of lignin and cellulose in addition to some other components that are porous and unstable. If not removed, most coatings will be absorbed into the instability of the unstable material and not anchor to the more stable wood. The coating becomes resin starved and does not form a proper film or tight adhesion. The film or stain break down prematurely. A wood restorer then brightener is best to remove this patina so the aesthetics and natural pattern of the wood is not compromised by sanding. Always oil prime tannin rich woods. A long oil primer is best vs a short oil or fast dry primer.


I've been accused of being a shill for the Forest 
Products Lab, but they did some good research about adhesion of paint to cedar.

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf1987/willi87a.pdf


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## PNW Painter (Sep 5, 2013)

NACE and Gough, thanks for sharing. It's helpful have amazing resources such as this for when these projects come around.


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