# Need production rates for skim coating



## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

So I looked at a condo repaint. Has pretty heavy splatter type texture. Owner wants walls and Lids skimmed prior to painting. I've used the Magic Trowel a couple times which might be a good move here. Basically slightly thin mud, roll on and lay off with giant squeegee (the magic trowel). Of course I'm open to normal production rates too for skimming. Any help is appreciated.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Damon T said:


> So I looked at a condo repaint. Has pretty heavy splatter type texture. Owner wants walls and Lids skimmed prior to painting. I've used the Magic Trowel a couple times which might be a good move here. Basically slightly thin mud, roll on and lay off with giant squeegee (the magic trowel). Of course I'm open to normal production rates too for skimming. Any help is appreciated.


Thank you for posting on PaintTalk...just kidding, Damon. The GWB guy that we work with has what I think is a novel approach. He sprays on heavy orange peel texture, typically two coats. Then he uses his Planex to sand the walls smooth. The advantage is that, aside from masking, it's nearly all machine work.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Gough said:


> Thank you for posting on PaintTalk...just kidding, Damon. The GWB guy that we work with has what I think is a novel approach. He sprays on heavy orange peel texture, typically two coats. Then he uses his Planex to sand the walls smooth. The advantage is that, aside from masking, it's nearly all machine work.



That's a very novel approach. I like it!


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

How about a combination of those two approaches. Spray on a heavy orange peel and smooth it out with the Magic Trowel? Kinda like a knock down approach, but don't wait for the mud to set up and knock it all the way down. 

Idk, just a thought from seeing those two ideas next to each other.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I like that approach Jay. You'll still have to sand but not as much.

I first learned of the roll on mud method only about ten years ago. I haven't had a practical need to apply mud like that, but if I did, I would likely go with the spray and trowel method.

This thread reminds me I need to get that Festool wall sander.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

We've been following a lot of this lately. I say follow because it is the tapers that have been doing the skimcoat.
One job they rolled it on. This job they sprayed it on. Kinda pick ur poison I think, spend the time to tape up and cover or spend the time dipping and rolling. They just use thinned out mud really, and yeh that power sander.

Production rate? How big is it? 2 guys tape up for a day, 2 to apply in a day, 2 to sand and touchup in a day is more than likely what u are in practicality looking at. Unless it is a really big or a really small condo. I'd think.


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## matt19422 (Oct 2, 2009)

You need a strong pump to spray thinned mud correct?


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

matt19422 said:


> You need a strong pump to spray thinned mud correct?


A slow stroaker, yeh, a big piston. It's akin to blockfiller. The thinned mud is. Use a block filler type tip also. .635 around there is good.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

matt19422 said:


> You need a strong pump to spray thinned mud correct?


We use a dedicated texture pump, like a Graco 1500.


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

We spray mud couple times a year. 631 or around there, tip wise. 

If it's deep that needs filling, just shoot it thick. Let it dry. And then give it another shot and use the trowel. Otherwise you might end up with more of a hand texture than you bargained for.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

woodcoyote said:


> We spray mud couple times a year. 631 or around there, tip wise.
> 
> If it's deep that needs filling, just shoot it thick. Let it dry. And then give it another shot and use the trowel. Otherwise you might end up with more of a hand texture than you bargained for.



So your talking about achieving lvl 5 or prep for texture? 

Would it be crazy to try it with a 695 you think? Was wanting to ask @Oden that too. 

Skim coating in the traditional manner is maddeningly slow to me. Curious about this stuff.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

Jmayspaint said:


> So your talking about achieving lvl 5 or prep for texture? Would it be crazy to try it with a 695 you think? Was wanting to ask @Oden that too. Skim coating in the traditional manner is maddeningly slow to me. Curious about this stuff.


Would you, have you used that maxhine to shoot block filler? Not the block conditioner the old school thick block filler. That is about the standard I'd use. If it will shoot block filler it will shoot the mud. If it won't shoot the block filler I don't think it will the mud. It's about, the mud, the same kinda consistency as uncut block filler.

Same routine take out all ur filters, it's gonna finger a bit out of the tip, lay it on heavy enuff. Depending on how rough a surface ur trying to smooth out it may take two passes. 

One product I've used but I forget the name of it. It was made by a drywall/mud company. USG maybe? Eeeh they prolly all got their own line. It is made for just this application, to spray. But then u still got to bang it up with a paddle before u shoot it. But basically it's loose mud. Skim coat? Smooth coat? Whatever it was sounds something like that. Just loose mud.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

Jmayspaint said:


> So your talking about achieving lvl 5 or prep for texture?
> 
> Would it be crazy to try it with a 695 you think? Was wanting to ask @Oden that too.
> 
> Skim coating in the traditional manner is maddeningly slow to me. Curious about this stuff.


Minimum specs for shooting most muds is about .75gpm. Your 695 should work fine.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

I racked my brain
This is what we used
Cover coat.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Make sure you manage expectations. We've followed a pretty decent GWB crew attempting to do this, and it was like a mediocre level 4 at best. Critically lit, it looked really bad. It's very likely that zero prelim work got done on your old, heavy-textured walls.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

I threw out a high number and they didn't like it so no skim coating. Hopefully we will still paint the place. He's still collecting bids....


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Oden said:


> Would you, have you used that maxhine to shoot block filler? Not the block conditioner the old school thick block filler. That is about the standard I'd use. If it will shoot block filler it will shoot the mud. If it won't shoot the block filler I don't think it will the mud. It's about, the mud, the same kinda consistency as uncut block filler.
> 
> Same routine take out all ur filters, it's gonna finger a bit out of the tip, lay it on heavy enuff. Depending on how rough a surface ur trying to smooth out it may take two passes.
> 
> One product I've used but I forget the name of it. It was made by a drywall/mud company. USG maybe? Eeeh they prolly all got their own line. It is made for just this application, to spray. But then u still got to bang it up with a paddle before u shoot it. But basically it's loose mud. Skim coat? Smooth coat? Whatever it was sounds something like that. Just loose mud.



There was a guy at one of the recent Pdca conventions that did a program on spraying mud. They're out of NYC. Very high end. They do a ton of skim coating and often will spray the mud surfacer product. They have special pumps for that. Mud spraying pumps. The craftsmanship forum put it on.


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

Hey everyone, sorry I didn't respond sooner. Was a bit tied up with work.

Attached are some photos of the mud spray. I didn't get any action shots because I was behind the gun, but it'll give you an idea of what it looks like, to some degree.

Just a background: We have to do this to cover up the stucco on the interior of the houses (scratch plaster), in order to create a blank canvas for the texture guys to come in and skip trowel, or whatever they are going to do. Comes out good in the end.


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## Allsurface (Aug 17, 2014)

Look into builders solution from sherwin. 
Builds to 25 mils wet. 
It can achieve level 5 finish.


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

Allsurface said:


> Look into builders solution from sherwin.
> Builds to 25 mils wet.
> It can achieve level 5 finish.


Yeah I have 10 gallons of it sitting in their warehouse right now. 

It's good stuff but nor for this application.

Reasons:
1. Cost. A box of mud runs around $7 a box. Add water and you'll have 5 gallons.

2. The mud is preferred because to cover the stucco grey coat to create a flat surface, it takes 1/4" roughly.

1/4 inch = 0.25 inches. 
25 mils = .025 inches. 
So it would take a TON of coats to build the wall out.


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