# Ben Moore Advance



## bfdast (Mar 11, 2013)

The contractor and I have never used it but the paint rep says to hit with sanding sponge, clean off dust, and put 2 coats on all trim that has been stained. The guy I'm helping is worried about it scratching off easily. What are your thoughts on this. We have only used SW and Pittsburg but this is what HO wanted since it's low voc.


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## Phinnster (Feb 20, 2013)

Hugh!

Come on no primer? Good luck


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## bfdast (Mar 11, 2013)

Yea that's what we said, yes no primer just that. We will find out today, has had plenty of time to dry. We did several small spots to see.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

bfdast said:


> Yea that's what we said, yes no primer just that. We will find out today, has had plenty of time to dry. We did several small spots to see.


Sounds like your Paint rep. used to work at Homedepot.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

I have put plenty of Advance over oil paint and its bonded well. Don't expect it to develop a full bond within a few days. IME it takes a least a week, and sometimes two, to develop its maximum bonding and hardness. 

Rushing the re coat time can affect the final results as well.


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## bfdast (Mar 11, 2013)

Thanks Jmay that's what they just told us. Don't think we have that kind of time honestly. We have 2 new constructions waiting so we will see.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

As long as its clean and dull adhesion shouldn't be a problem. Priming it would make me sleep better..


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## loaded brush (Dec 27, 2007)

Have the rep put his instructions in writing with his personal guarantee


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

bfdast said:


> The contractor and I have never used it but the paint rep says to hit with sanding sponge, clean off dust, and put 2 coats on all trim that has been stained. The guy I'm helping is worried about it scratching off easily. What are your thoughts on this. We have only used SW and Pittsburg but this is what HO wanted since it's low voc.


two coats of finish over previously stained millwork sounds like a pretty sh!ty system to me. They must be desperate to save a dime. It might adhere, but I doubt if it's going to look very good, or have long term durability. Makes me feel sorry for the HO.


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## bfdast (Mar 11, 2013)

Well HO is who wanted it, they want to wait the ten days to see how it does.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

straight_lines said:


> As long as its clean and dull adhesion shouldn't be a problem. Priming it would make me sleep better..


When in doubt, prime. You'll have fewer nightmares.


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## bfdast (Mar 11, 2013)

That's what we want to do but the HO said to wait ten days now and see how it does. I've never had to wait 10 days to paint trim and another ten for it to dry but they are paying us so I guess we will see


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## Phinnster (Feb 20, 2013)

Ever thought the stained wood could bleed?

If your in a hurry why are waiting ten days for results when if you prime you could already be done??


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## midwest painter88 (Feb 2, 2014)

Zinnzer cover stain nice oil prime and 2 finish coats I've used advance many times.. Sorry to say it won't work out you'll be able to scratch the paint off with your nail. I know from past mess ups:/ costly screw ups!


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## bfdast (Mar 11, 2013)

I completely agree but this is what the HO wants is for us to wait and see. I can't change their mind either! Hopefully in a few more days they will understand.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

I think one coat of a high quality primer and one coat of advanced would be better. Still not good, but better. If it were me, I would rather pass on the job then follow a bogus, HO mandated system.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> I think one coat of a high quality primer and one coat of advanced would be better. Still not good, but better. If it were me, I would rather pass on the job then follow a bogus, HO mandated system.


That's good advice there.


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## bfdast (Mar 11, 2013)

I would have passed it on but helping a friend since I'm slow. The HO is second guessing his self for listening to the store and not my buddy who could have been the guy at the stores dad lol


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## Monstertruck (Oct 26, 2013)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> I think one coat of a high quality primer and one coat of advanced would be better. Still not good, but better. If it were me, I would rather *pass on the job then follow a bogus, HO mandated system*.


In yourself, trust you must.


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## BhamPainter (Mar 6, 2013)

Why didn't the HO want a primer? VOCs? I'd try to get him to use Stix or XIM UMA; they're both waterborne and pretty low in VOCs. Stix is <50g/L. There is an Advance primer, too; anyone used it?


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## vividpainting (Aug 14, 2011)

There is an Advance primer, too; anyone used it? Absolutely. Its a great leveling primer, not the strongest adhesion primer but i really like it.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

I didn't like their primer. I've been using Kilz Max


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

I've only done a little brush test with the advance primer. Seemed to level nice and sand well next day. My rep said they're probably going to discontinue it as nobody buys it and there are other primers for less that do more. Too bad though, seems like a good concept. 



Sent from my iPad using PaintTalk.com


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I can't imagine why painters would buy a less expensive primer that did a better job?


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## vividpainting (Aug 14, 2011)

There are so many primers out there even though i like advance it doesnt really stand out or have a specific place for me.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

We recently used advanced primer on a new shelving wall unit made of unprimed mdf. I was happy that it didn't explode the 'grain' and sanded pretty good after an overnight dry. We used advanced satin for the finish coats. I told the homeowner to let it sit two weeks before loading the shelves. It must have worked fine because she wants to meet with me tomorrow about some more work. I will take some 'after' pics when I'm out there, and see if anything is stuck.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Did you wait until the next day to second coat? 
Just shoot it straight with a 310 or 410?


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Damon T said:


> Did you wait until the next day to second coat? Just shoot it straight with a 310 or 410?


This job was in occupied, close-quarters with not a lot of room to work. Therefore, we brush and rolled it, one coat per day.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

How are you guys feeling about the 16 hour re-coat? That is under ideal conditions. Are you keeping your eye on the environmental conditions when you apply? 

I was looking at the TDS a few days ago and I think they added this section about RH. 



Extra ventilation is necessary under humid conditions to speed 
the dry time of Advance, especially when the paint is applied 
over sealed, hard, non-porous surfaces. The chart below is for 
general guidance. 
Mild conditions Severe conditions Very severe 
conditions 
Dry (RH<50%), and 
Temperature between 
70˚F and 90˚F 
(RH> 50%), and/or 
temperature between 
50˚F and 70˚F 
RH> 85%, or 
temperature < 
50˚F 
Advance will dry 
normally. 
Dry to touch: 4-6 hours 
To Recoat: 16 hours 
Advance will dry 
slower than normal 
unless the following is 
done to speed the dry 
time: Ventilate the 
room with a fan 
and/or turn on A/C to 
lower the humidity. 
Do not apply 
Advance


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

I can get it to dry to the touch in a little < or > an hour in my shop with the heater and ventilation system cranked up. I've also recoated in less than 4 hours several times in my shop without any adverse effects with white base colors. With deep base colors, I ran into a slightly seeded effect once, so I have been giving those colors overnight between coats. Onsite we wait for it to completely dry to the touch throughout the entire surface before recoating, often applying two same-day coats. It can definitely vary based on the temp and rh though. My worst experience so far with it has been onsite with deep base doors. The carpenter installed the hinges and hardware a couple days after we finished spraying three coats, then he stacked the doors against the wall with cardboard in between. The cardboard didn't pull off any paint, but it did leave marks. Luckily they touched up beautifully with a wizz roller.


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## BhamPainter (Mar 6, 2013)

straight_lines said:


> How are you guys feeling about the 16 hour re-coat? That is under ideal conditions. Are you keeping your eye on the environmental conditions when you apply?


Like most paints, I think the practical dry time for Advance is much shorter than advertised; with that said, I have been using the recommended dry time in between coats. I would say it's usually dry to the touch an hour or two, but I let it dry overnight before scuffing and re-coating for fear of the blocking/drying issues folks have posted about. If I want to two-coat in one day, I use Aura satin.

I've been painting it inside insulated homes with heating that's up and running, so I haven't worried too much about my environmental conditions.

Damn the stuff looks good, brushed or sprayed.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

I wonder if the long drying time of Advance has to do with the alkyd resins having to cure in the absence of solvents. 

That would make sense, and perhaps explain why it dries to touch so much quicker than to re coat. Once the water is gone your left with a seemingly dry surface, but the resins are left to cure on there own without the help of solvent evaporation.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I am of that mindset as well. Benjamin Moore put it in there for a reason, like I posted its 16 hrs under ideal conditions. Where I live it could be several days.


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## Slopmeyer (Aug 2, 2009)

There was a case similar to this thread last year where The SW rep and manager told another painter no primer needed for the Pro classic on cabinets just clean them good and scuff em. Well they failed miserably in a couple months and SW didn't stand behind the painter.
If your BM rep will guarantee it, get it in writing


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

I stopped by a job where we painted unprimed MDF bookshelves with advanced primer and satin paint. I instructed the homeowner to wait two full weeks before loading the shelves. She was happy to comply, and very thankful that there was a low-voc enamel, since she is pregnant. We applied one coat of primer on day one, sanded and first top coat on day two, and second top coat and touched up the walls on day three. I was very nervous when I arrived and saw:






Thankfully, there wasn't even a hint of tackiness. Nothing stuck!


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

It is a beautiful paint, I used it all day today. So easy to brush really good finishes with it. Glad that worked out with the bookcases.


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## bfdast (Mar 11, 2013)

well we sanded the trim and applied primer first and second day, 3 coats (what he wanted) and looks great and no scratches.


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