# Front Door Paint



## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

Let me preface this by saying that the search tool doesn't work for squat.

So this job I just started is basic. All except the front door. Its actually a double door, wood pre primed frame just like ya'll are accustomed to on residential.










The only part that's tricky, is I have to do it while its in use. And it has to get shut and locked at the end of the workday. Ideally, I'd remove them and go spray em somewhere else, buts thats just not gonna happen on this one. I will have to do it on the hinge, people walking by, and I want it smooth as glass. It will be bright orange, I'm thinking satin. Assume its gonna be 80 degrees air temp, and this is north facing so in the shade.

Gonna be SW so I can pickup everything in one shot. I'm thinking waterborne ASE, put it on with a brush and 1/2" roller, then face it off (while still wet) with Mohair or the sort. I'm hesitant to use much extender, cause I don't want it staying sticky when it gets shut at 5pm.

I know I've seen pix around here of some seriously smooth doors, and would like to try outdo myself on this one.


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## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

PPG Breakthrough. You could be done in a couple hours and not have to worry about the door sticking.


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

Lambrecht said:


> PPG Breakthrough. You could be done in a couple hours and not have to worry about the door sticking.


Yeap. I seen that coming. Does SW have anything comparable or no? Haven't been over to ppg since like 2011, wonder if they would even service me :whistling2:


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Can you pull the weatherstrip from the frame and the astragal? That can be a big help if the doors have to be closed & locked before the paint has fully cured, especially the weatherstrip in the astragal.


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## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

I don't know of any other product that will give you the blocking resistance and dry as quickly as Breakthrough.


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

my vote is Breakthrough :thumbsup:

.


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## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

If you can pull the weatherstripping it works good. Never used Breakthrough but I have heard good things about it.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

Even if you can use breakthrough pull the weatherstripping and don't reinstall for a few days. 

Don't forget to tape the inside frame as well


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Is this NC? I know this isn't particularly helpful to you, but the GC should have gotten a dunnage door. Completely removes the need for this kind of shenanigans. Unfortunately don't have any good recommendations for you in SW products. Gonna be rough to not have this a mess; GC really won't give you any other option than to do it while people are working? Can't be done early morning/late evening?


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

DrakeB said:


> Is this NC? I know this isn't particularly helpful to you, but the GC should have gotten a dunnage door. Completely removes the need for this kind of shenanigans. Unfortunately don't have any good recommendations for you in SW products. Gonna be rough to not have this a mess; GC really won't give you any other option than to do it while people are working? Can't be done early morning/late evening?


We've accumulated a lot of useless junk over the years, but those blem'ed doors have been incredibly handy. I just wish the door companies could agree on the layout of the gains... and exactly how wide x tall a 3-0 x 6-8 door actually is. We've re-dapped a few of ours a dozen or more times.


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## Seth The Painter (Jun 24, 2015)

Where is the property located? Is it near any water? Is it going to be exposed to alot of moisture? I like to put oil on the front door. Especially if you offer a warrantee. Do they have kids? I like my front door in oil due to the fact it's alot more durable. I'm not familiar with breakthrough at all. I have heard it's great. I would seriously doubt it's more durable then oil. 

If drying time is an issue use a little bit more thinner than you normally do this will really help you with the drying process. 

I do agree with everyone with taking the weatherstripping off. 

When applying use a small brush to cut in and use a foam roller for am excellent finish.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

If you want it to look super smooth, then you need to spray it. That's how we handle most front entry repaints. 

1. Remove weatherstripping and handle (we will usually mask the deadbolt for security).
2. Mask hinges, jamb, threshold.
3. Sand, vac, spray.
4. Put everything back together the day after we finish, except the weatherstripping.
5 install weather strip after 3-4 days.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Just a heads up, if you take all the weatherstripping off to paint, make sure you let the other trade guys know. Depending on the door, if they swing it shut it will slam very, very hard and not only mar your paint job but also possibly damage the door.


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

Seth The Painter said:


> Where is the property located? Is it near any water? Is it going to be exposed to alot of moisture? I like to put oil on the front door. Especially if you offer a warrantee. Do they have kids? I like my front door in oil due to the fact it's alot more durable. *I'm not familiar with breakthrough at all. I have heard it's great. I would seriously doubt it's more durable then oil. *


Break-Through! is specced as a concrete floor coating.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

^^ We finally have started using it after some months of testing. Great low blocking product but not smooth like other enamels it has a shark skin feel on satin. Haven't tried the gloss, it smells like an acrylic lacquer which we love. Not as hard though. 

Add some extender if brushing. Another plus I it can be made in almost all colors.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Why not just use the new Aura Grand Entrance line. It's an acrylic with oil like properties, meaning a spray like finish with a brush and roller..I Always remove weather stripping first..


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Why not just use the new Aura Grand Entrance line. It's an acrylic with oil like properties, meaning a spray like finish with a brush and roller..I Always remove weather stripping first..


I'd never heard of this stuff. Only been on the market here in Canada for two months from the looks of things. Sounds interesting. Only comes in quarts though. MSRP $47/quart. Wow.

I knew a guy who would tape off the weather stripping, leave the door open for as long as possible after the first coat. When he did the second coat, he'd smear Vaseline on the tape for when the door had to be closed. Couple of days later, come back pull tape and gently rub any residual off the door. He never had a problem with this method.


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## Mike2coat (Nov 12, 2013)

I take off the weatherstripping, light sand, mask and shoot two coats of either SW All surface enamel or Frazee Aro thane with a 3/13 using the proshot 2. I don't take em off unless they need lots of prep.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

bryceraisanen said:


> Let me preface this by saying that the search tool doesn't work for squat.
> 
> So this job I just started is basic. All except the front door. Its actually a double door, wood pre primed frame just like ya'll are accustomed to on residential.
> 
> ...


I have a similar situation coming up in a few weeks. I am going to try Breakthrough for the first time.


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

Pete the Painter said:


> I have a similar situation coming up in a few weeks. I am going to try Breakthrough for the first time.


Breakthrough only comes in gallons IIRC, and I can't believe your doors will soak anywhere near all of one up.

Are you planning on brushing/rolling some vertical test panels/details out ahead of time to get a feel for working time, sagging, etc.?


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

If you have to use SW the 0 VOC pro industrial acrylic is really good. I only used ASE once in black and hated it but a lot of guys here like it.
And yes do all the stuff mentioned about pulling weatherstripping etc. you only have to use 1-1/2" tape on the inner jambs typically as the paint spray only goes in the weatherstripping gaps about 1/2".


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

All good advice. Pro industrial is good stuff. 

I prefer sw. Solo. As it's rated for interior/exterior. Dries quick and a pretty good enamel. Levels nice, etc.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

I've heard good stuff about Solo. Wasn't aware pro-industrial wasn't interior& exterior


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

woodcoyote said:


> All good advice. Pro industrial is good stuff.
> 
> I prefer sw. Solo. As it's rated for interior/exterior. Dries quick and a pretty good enamel. Levels nice, etc.



Does solo dry hard enough? Never used it.


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

Damon T said:


> I've heard good stuff about Solo. Wasn't aware pro-industrial wasn't interior& exterior


As far as I know...proindustrial is interior/exterior. So that shouldn't be a problem.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> Does solo dry hard enough? Never used it.


I used solo a couple of times and want impressed. It might have been a situational issue.


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> Does solo dry hard enough? Never used it.


It's an acrylic and also rated for exterior. So that means it won't be super hard because it has to flex outside.

But as far as I know it holds up fairly decently. It levels nicely and dries quickly.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Why not just use the new Aura Grand Entrance line. It's an acrylic with oil like properties, meaning a spray like finish with a brush and roller..I Always remove weather stripping first..


Couple things about Grand Entrance- not actually new (though it may not have been in some markets). It's just gotten the Aura name attached, formula is the same as it's always been.

Grand Entrance pricing is one of the few BM pricings that really irks me. It's got a minimum advertised price that's just silly; I don't have it priced on the shelf at all. When people ask about it, I just give them a reasonable price and don't even mention that it was supposed to be upwards of 50 a quart.

All that being said, from what I've heard from the couple of people who've used it around here, it seems to be a really quality product. Only reason I didn't suggest it for this application is because of the dry time.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

What about FPOE?


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Strange Grand Entrance had Aura added to its label. Since it's basically Advance high gloss repackaged.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

We field tested a version of Aura with more open time. I wonder if that is the Aura Grand Entrance. Tested it last summer.

I am all for Benjamin Moore consolidating lines a bit, but throwing oil deck sealers back under ArborCoat. Aura Grand Entrance that is an oil resin under Aura, etc. Might be a little much.

Just ordered up a gallon of DTM. That is now under UltraSpec.

I am not sure the new product groupings add clarity.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Don't forget Regsl Select high build flat and Regal Select Moorlife flat


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

True. Those were the start of the confusing labelling.

I think the rep says that is supposed to build better name recognition and be simpler to remember or something.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

DeanV said:


> True. Those were the start of the confusing labelling.
> 
> I think the rep says that is supposed to build better name recognition and be simpler to remember or something.


I am very confused:001_unsure:


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

DeanV said:


> We field tested a version of Aura with more open time. I wonder if that is the Aura Grand Entrance. Tested it last summer.
> 
> I am all for Benjamin Moore consolidating lines a bit, but throwing oil deck sealers back under ArborCoat. Aura Grand Entrance that is an oil resin under Aura, etc. Might be a little much.
> 
> ...


Ultra Spec DTM is a completely different product than the old SS DTM. As I've mentioned, BM's replacing SS lines one at a time with reformulated US lines. These are actually different products, unlike the Grand Entrance.

I don't necessarily agree with all their choices lately with naming, but I do understand. They want everything to be under one of just a few recognizable names- it makes it easier to sell. Hence, the GE move to Aura. Same story with the oil Arborcoats- they wanted _one_ recognizable line for deck stains. Doesn't make much difference to those of us who are familiar with the products; makes a world of difference for a homeowner looking at a big wall of paint.

Also Dean I doubt that Aura was Grand Entrance. They're very different products for one thing, and for another Grand Entrance is older than last summer. You'd know if you were using GE; it's similar to FPoE (pretty sure that's exactly what they were trying to emulate).


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Whatever it was, the guy from BM said it was in use know and was featured in new Aura TV ads. Not sure if any aura ads mention more open time, etc. I do not see aura adds on TV.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

DeanV said:


> Whatever it was, the guy from BM said it was in use know and was featured in new Aura TV ads. Not sure if any aura ads mention more open time, etc. I do not see aura adds on TV.


Ah, I misunderstood. I thought you meant it was new/unreleased then. If so it might well have been.


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## EnglishDecorator (Sep 11, 2011)

Not sure if you can get Sikkens XD but great for doors etc


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

EnglishDecorator said:


> Not sure if you can get Sikkens XD but great for doors etc



Never seen that but sure looks nice. Guessing it's not q fast dry option which the OP was looking for. However very impressive. Reminds me of FPoE


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

EnglishDecorator said:


> Not sure if you can get Sikkens XD but great for doors etc


Wows thats amazing, is that paint?


Ended up trying out a can of breakthrough in satin. The doors ended up turning out quite nicely but I did notice some of that grittiness that was referred to in another thread. I can see how there is a learning curve with this stuff I ended up taking the doors off and standing them up in the yard and spraying them let me tell you that stuff flashed off in about 10 seconds Max. Its kind of watery, feels just like Advance.

Hear what all of you are saying as far as working for general contractors but remember we're done with that. This was just a regular sales job for the company that actually is going to start doing our marketing. Had to get it done while they are going about their daily business.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

DeanV said:


> True. Those were the start of the confusing labelling.
> 
> I think the rep says that is supposed to build better name recognition and be simpler to remember or something.


If you guys think BM labeling is confusing you obviously haven't used much PPG product lately. Now there is a name/brand/company label nightmare!


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

PACman said:


> If you guys think BM labeling is confusing you obviously haven't used much PPG product lately. Now there is a name/brand/company label nightmare!


like what?
manor hall
pure performance
speed hide

done


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## PPM (May 5, 2015)

PACman said:


> If you guys think BM labeling is confusing you obviously haven't used much PPG product lately. Now there is a name/brand/company label nightmare!


Really?

Top End: Timeless, Manor Hall (both exterior and interior).
Mid-level: Diamond/Fortis, Pure Performance, Wallhide (soon to be gone).
Economy: Sunproof, Speedhide (Int/Ext).

Then the industrial lines, the largest selection in the world, along with Devoe anyway.

While Benjamin Moore may have generally very good products, the branding is terrible. Having sub brands under flagship names such as Aura and Regal is extremely confusing to consumers.

The auto industry also relies heavily on product names like the paint industry. There is no such thing as the "Ford Taurus Fusion". Or the Audi A8 Fancy Grille". Separating product names and their attributes contributes to recognition and perceived quality. 

A jumbled mess like "Benjamin Moore Regal Moore Glow Exterior", does not instill that. 

PPG Manor Hall, or Sherwin Williams Duration for example fits that bill.

Can you guys tell what I studied in college? :lol:


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

I find the Ppg TDS' very confusing as they refer to all their products by number only. Like "use primer 6-2 for interior wood surfaces". I guess BM does that too but at least I recognize their numbers.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

PPM said:


> A jumbled mess like "Benjamin Moore Regal Moore Glow Exterior", does not instill that.
> 
> PPG Manor Hall, or Sherwin Williams Duration for example fits that bill.


That's a litttttle bit apples to oranges, my friend.

Benjamin Moore - Regal Select - Exterior
Sherwin Williams - Duration - Exterior
PPG - Manor Hall - Exterior
Brand Name - Paint Name - Interior/Exterior

They all look the same to me. You just neglected to add "Exterior" at the end of your examples. Let's not pretend like there's any difference except which ones we're personally familiar with, eh?


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Damon T said:


> I find the Ppg TDS' very confusing as they refer to all their products by number only. Like "use primer 6-2 for interior wood surfaces". I guess BM does that too but at least I recognize their numbers.


As far as I know BM's got the product name as well as the number on theirs, eg: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...A7NGSupLrMsEVrnuhXV9mkQ&bvm=bv.99261572,d.cWw


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## PPM (May 5, 2015)

DrakeB said:


> That's a litttttle bit apples to oranges, my friend.
> 
> Benjamin Moore - Regal Select - Exterior
> Sherwin Williams - Duration - Exterior
> ...


I was trying to demonstrate the subtitle name branding in it's extreme form using Moore Glow Exterior or Revive.

Welp, if we really want to get serious (we're on a forum about paint for christsake).

Consumers have a short attention span to products. If you say Aura Front Door, or Aura Exterior, a consumer is going to look at you and ask...uh whats the difference? Why am I paying $70 for this Aura vs $50 for the quart of Aura door?

This site should be renamed (with a sub brand of course), Paint Talk: A Benjamin Moore Fansite.

Don't get me wrong, Benny Moore has great products, an amazing parent company, and generally knowledgeable store owners/employees from my experience.

The people on this site really jump on anyone who doesn't hug every can of BM.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Not sure that's accurate; hell, there's some BM products I don't recommend and I'm a BM retailer. And I'll be the first to admit that their product labeling could use improvement. Just because I disagree about your assessment doesn't mean I'm jumping on you. Take a few deep breaths and calm down. I happen to think the sub-branding will be good for BM in the long run; you don't. That's okay. There's not a thing in the world wrong with disagreeing.


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

PPM said:


> This site should be renamed (with a sub brand of course), Paint Talk: A Benjamin Moore Fansite.
> 
> The people on this site really jump on anyone who doesn't hug every can of BM.


There is no reason to start this argument. You are welcome here. Your ideas are welcome here. We appreciate your input.

On a daily basis, contractors here recommend PPG, SW, BM, PL, etc. PT is an international board with an international membership. The products discussed here are the widest in scope of any online forum I have found.

Do you like ACE brand paint? Many here do, and here is recent, popular thread about it:

http://www.painttalk.com/f2/ace-royal-hi-hiding-white-45226/


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

We even let people talk about Valspar, honest.


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## PPM (May 5, 2015)

I apologize if I came off as argumentative guys.

Tone doesn't seem to carry my word well over the internet.

Again I apologize. I'm starting to sound like an old man, and I'm only in my twenties!


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

PPM said:


> I apologize if I came off as argumentative guys.
> 
> Tone doesn't seem to carry my word well over the internet.
> 
> Again I apologize. I'm starting to sound like an old man, and I'm only in my twenties!


No worries! The point of my post was to say that we want you to contribute more, not less.

There are so many interesting things to debate. When threads become Purdy bashing Wooster or something similar, things get dull quick.

I'm a fanboy of elastomerics. Not any brand in particular. Just the flexibility of their flexible nature. Look at this silly thread I started:

http://www.painttalk.com/f6/elastomeric-patching-compounds-44945/


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

It's the internet, where would we be without a little disagreement :thumbup:

I find discussing this kind of things helps with my product knowledge and hopefully translates to the same for everyone on the other side of things. If PT were just a BM-echo chamber I wouldn't stay here, because that wouldn't be useful to me at all. I'm here to learn, not sell product


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Damon T said:


> I find the Ppg TDS' very confusing as they refer to all their products by number only. Like "use primer 6-2 for interior wood surfaces". I guess BM does that too but at least I recognize their numbers.


Wait, you use 6-2 for interior wood surfaces?? Don't you mean 6-6, or 17-255? I certainly hope so.

We probably haven't used 5 gallons of PPG in the last 8 years, but I still remember most of the numbers of our often-used products.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Gough said:


> Wait, you use 6-2 for interior wood surfaces?? Don't you mean 6-6, or 17-255? I certainly hope so.
> 
> We probably haven't used 5 gallons of PPG in the last 8 years, but I still remember most of the numbers of our often-used products.


Paint stuff does have a rather insidious way of worming itself into your head. It's bad when I can close my eyes and point to a fairly good chunk of BM colors without looking at the board. Or when someone asks me the difference between two colors and I rattle off the formulas without looking.


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## PPM (May 5, 2015)

Gough said:


> Wait, you use 6-2 for interior wood surfaces?? Don't you mean 6-6, or 17-255? I certainly hope so.
> 
> We probably haven't used 5 gallons of PPG in the last 8 years, but I still remember most of the numbers of our often-used products.


One is able to use 6-2 for interior wood surfaces. Although I would recommend Seal-Grip (17-921).

Now that PPG has took the best from Glidden Pro line, and dropped most of the other products, Gripper Primer is also available at all PPG stores, also a great primer. I still prefer 17-921 however.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Gough said:


> Wait, you use 6-2 for interior wood surfaces?? Don't you mean 6-6, or 17-255? I certainly hope so.
> 
> 
> 
> We probably haven't used 5 gallons of PPG in the last 8 years, but I still remember most of the numbers of our often-used products.



I was just pulling a number out of my hat. I wasn't sure it was even a real number. I do actually like the latex seal grip. No idea what the number is.

Edit. Just read the above post which clarifies some things


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

PPM said:


> One is able to use 6-2 for interior wood surfaces. Although I would recommend Seal-Grip (17-921).
> 
> Now that PPG has took the best from Glidden Pro line, and dropped most of the other products, Gripper Primer is also available at all PPG stores, also a great primer. I still prefer 17-921 however.


6-2 was our go-to GWB primer for years. I suppose it could be used on wood, but the grain raising is problematic. We still haven't seen an interior wood primer that gives results like PPG 6-6.


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