# Favorite lacquers



## oldskool (Nov 17, 2009)

Researching a possible new product line for our store and was curious what brand and types of lacquers are preferred on this board. Currently sell MacLac, competitors sell Rudd. I am looking at a Dunn edwards private label and Gemini.

We are in California and under strict VOC regulations.


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## michfan (Jul 6, 2008)

I have used a decent amount of Gemini's products, especially their Ultra Lacquer. Loved the stuff. It is hands down the best lacquer I've ever used.


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## summertime14 (May 4, 2009)

Gemini Ultra


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

I would agree Gemini....BUT being a dealer myself, I also look at logistics. Gemini is notoriously unhelpful to their dealers. I recently had to order 1 gallon of lacquer. They charged me shipping....plus an environmental fee totaling $40 ( which, if the customer ordered himself...would have been cheaper ) plus the cost of the gallon!! To be successful selling their products, you MUST order properly!! If you happen to run short on a job plan on getting bent over for that extra gallon or two.


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## oakley (Dec 14, 2007)

Look at Valspar Zenith.


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

All I can say is Sherwood.


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

I was going to say I like sipping rums. But you said Laquers- oops. Don't use 'em.

:jester:


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## ACPINTER (Apr 21, 2009)

I use alot of Valspar pre-cat and its never let me down.


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

I like the Valspar Pre-Cat and Lenmar Ultra Laq. Coronado is nice stuff too. Been looking forward to trying MLC though.


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## woodtradesman (Sep 22, 2008)

oakley said:


> Look at Valspar Zenith.


Absolutely. Valspar Zenith waterborne lacquer is the best waterborne clear finish that I have worked with.

If you want to have a good waterborne that emulates lacquer in your store the Valspar Zenith is the ticket.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Sweet! 
You convinced me to try it out. Now I can't wait tell my next lacquer job. I was just checking that stuff out. I even almost used it on some cabinets but I was on a tight schedule and was afraid I would have to learn a whole new product and didn't want to be rushed. So I went with what I already knew.


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## woodtradesman (Sep 22, 2008)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Sweet!
> You convinced me to try it out. Now I can't wait tell my next lacquer job. I was just checking that stuff out. I even almost used it on some cabinets but I was on a tight schedule and was afraid I would have to learn a whole new product and didn't want to be rushed. So I went with what I already knew.


There is definitely a learning curb so I suggest that you get a gallon and try it out first. If you're staining, you can stain your surface as you usually do and coat it with the zenith without the need for a sealer like bulls eye sealcoat

the zenith stuff is self sealing and your fist or second coat might raise the grain some so light sanding with fine grit between coats is a must.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

What do you like specifically about Zenith? Have you compared it to any of the Target Coatings?


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## woodtradesman (Sep 22, 2008)

DeanV said:


> What do you like specifically about Zenith? Have you compared it to any of the Target Coatings?


Ah yes, I have tried the EM6000. Its also great stuff, I would recommend it any day of the week but the Zenith has a warmer look to it.


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## deluxe (Nov 30, 2008)

we have only used Ml Campbell and Chemcraft pre-cat and both are really great.


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

woodtradesman said:


> Ah yes, I have tried the EM6000. Its also great stuff, I would recommend it any day of the week but the Zenith has a wormer look to it.


How do you like the waterbournes over pre-cats? I haven't had the opportunity to try waterbourne lacquers yet, but given their obvious advantages doing on-site finishing, it looks like i'll be heading in that direction. My main clearcoat supplier sells Valspar, and I think they're bringing in Target coatings sometime soon - which of the two is closer to their solvent based counterparts?


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## woodtradesman (Sep 22, 2008)

Rcon said:


> How do you like the waterbournes over pre-cats? I haven't had the opportunity to try waterbourne lacquers yet, but given their obvious advantages doing on-site finishing, it looks like i'll be heading in that direction. My main clearcoat supplier sells Valspar, and I think they're bringing in Target coatings sometime soon - which of the two is closer to their solvent based counterparts?


 I got tired of solvent based clear finishes for cabinetry so I use waterbornes for cabinets and builtins exclusively now.

As far as how much I like the waterbornes over solvent goes. there is no true replacement for oil and the solvent based stuff tends to look warmer then waterbornes but hell, I can star and finish a project alot quicker with waterbornes and the clean up is much simpler too.

Valspar Zenith vs Target Coating EM6000:

They each have their desireable characteristics (althogh similar), both are priced similarly and both will give you a great finish but the deal breaker for me is that Zenith has a solvent like warmth to it.

Having said that, Its not like I would buy zenith over the EM6000 all the time. There are instances when I would get the EM6000 over the Zenith, Like when I know there is good chance that other trades will likely damage the finish on my cabinets. In such case the EM6000 is a better choice because it emulates the "burn-in" effect of conventional lacquer which makes it so repairable.


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

woodtradesman said:


> I got tired of solvent based clear finishes for cabinetry so I use waterbornes for cabinets and builtins exclusively now.
> 
> As far as how much I like the waterbornes over solvent goes. there is no true replacement for oil and the solvent based stuff tends to look warmer then waterbornes but hell, I can star and finish a project alot quicker with waterbornes and the clean up is much simpler too.
> 
> ...


Indeed, the burn in effect is desirable when it comes to repair. that was one thing I worried about with waterbournes - film finishes have their place but the melting of coats that lacquers offer provide for some easy touch ups. Thanks for the insight! :thumbsup:

EDIT: Wouldn't sealcoating with a shellac give you the warmth of color you're looking for and avoid grain raise? Just a question...


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## Cusingeorge (Jan 19, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> They charged me shipping....plus an environmental fee totaling $40


We charge freight on everyone's order, not just you. The "environmental fee" is the HAZMAT charge from Fed Ex or UPS, it's not us.




> if the customer ordered himself...would have been cheaper ) plus the cost of the gallon!!


We do not sell direct. It would have cost at least as much, if not more for and end user to buy since we do support our dealers.



> To be successful selling their products, you MUST order properly!! If you happen to run short on a job plan on getting bent over for that extra gallon or two.


Did you call and complain? Who is your Gemini sales rep?


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

For target coatings, I think the 2000 series is the best. It is expensive though at 71/gallon I think. But the feel of that finish is better than lacquer. It does not give wood the glow lacquer does, but out of all Target's coatings, it feels the best to the touch. Good enough that it fooled half the people I have asked which is waterborne and which is lacquer.


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## oldskool (Nov 17, 2009)

I really lean toward the waterborne products as I feel nitro and other solvent bornes are not going to be around much longer, trying to be ahead of the curve. So trying to learn and understand as much as possible about the next wave in industrial and DIY clears.

Anyone familiar with Modern Masters Master clear int ext urethane. I have had it on a drawdown card next to a competitor and half of the card has been covered for almost 2 years and it still hasn't yellowed. 

How do these products you recommend do against yellowing, and do you use your Pre cats outside. Do you like 1 component systems or are 2 parts preferred? I know, it depends on the situation.


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## Mantis (Aug 4, 2008)

I mainly use Chemcraft Opticlear or Optilite pre-cat overtop their 1947 lacquer sanding sealer. Its excellent stuff but the price of it is killing me. Ive tried Sherwood a handful of times, love the price but it doesnt seem to lay out as nicely. Maybe i need to play with it more. 

So in other words, im looking for a new pre-cat to play with!  Havent tried any waterborne lacquers yet, i'd like to.


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