# Is there a better way to do this?



## Betheweb (Jul 26, 2016)

I always have this problem. This is taking forever. 40 grit is about the coarsest I can find. Is there a different tool I should be using? Or am I just impatient? 

https://vid.me/SeNxe


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## Haris (Aug 23, 2017)

Orbit sander is fine but as Technogod mentioned already fill all the deficiencies first and then sand, with finer sandpaper of course.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*If I were doing this I'd......*



Betheweb said:


> I always have this problem. This is taking forever. 40 grit is about the coarsest I can find. Is there a different tool I should be using? Or am I just impatient?
> 
> https://vid.me/SeNxe


If I were doing this I would use the sander like you are doing with 80 grit to get the surface generally flat. Then i would skim coat twice with Durabond 20, using the spackle knife to shave off nubs after the 1st coat. I would not overfill with the DB as it is very hard to sand, just put 2 (or 3 if need be) coats of DB 20, let dry, sand smooth (I would use a sponge sander from Gator - the ones with yellow foam and grit only on front and back. These are stiff and will leave a flatter surface than soft-spongy sanding blocks), apply a coat of Gardz as water based primers (at least the 123 I have used) seem to melt thin coats of Durabond and Easy Sand, whereas Gardz does not, then prime/paint away.

I just repaired dings in 3 hollow core doors suing this method rather than replace the doors and it worked fine.

futtyos


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

If it's going to be a paint grade finish...just fill the gaps with filler and sand flush. Way easier than trying to take the finish off. 

For cabinets I'm a fan of either wall & wood primer or bonding primer, paint over it. done.


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## Betheweb (Jul 26, 2016)

It's a garage door. I have no idea how people sand off paint down to bare wood. That must take weeks.


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## Eagle Cap Painter (Nov 14, 2016)

Why would you need bare wood?


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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

i think what youre looking for is an electric plainer


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Vylum said:


> i think what youre looking for is an electric plainer


I would have to imagine a power planer would do more damage than benefit. As others mentioned, you're looking for a uniform plane. Much easier to build up than to take down.

Ditto for fill and sand.


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## Worker Bee (Jun 2, 2017)

futtyos said:


> If I were doing this I would use the sander like you are doing with 80 grit to get the surface generally flat. Then i would skim coat twice with Durabond 20, using the spackle knife to shave off nubs after the 1st coat. I would not overfill with the DB as it is very hard to sand, just put 2 (or 3 if need be) coats of DB 20, let dry, sand smooth (I would use a sponge sander from Gator - the ones with yellow foam and grit only on front and back. These are stiff and will leave a flatter surface than soft-spongy sanding blocks), apply a coat of Gardz as water based primers (at least the 123 I have used) seem to melt thin coats of Durabond and Easy Sand, whereas Gardz does not, then prime/paint away.
> 
> I just repaired dings in 3 hollow core doors suing this method rather than replace the doors and it worked fine.
> 
> futtyos


Drywall compound for something exposed to weather is gaurenteed to fail :vs_shocked:

I think half the problem, and I noticed it right away, is that your using the tool wrong.... Instead of using the entire disc surface, tip it a little bit so your riding more on the edge, works pretty well actually.

run it flat like your doing for more of a general sand.



as far as discs go, the cheapest place I have found is Lowes, gator discs, 50 for $20. the ones at HD dont have enough exhaust holes..


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*My bad*



Worker Bee said:


> Drywall compound for something exposed to weather is gaurenteed to fail :vs_shocked:
> 
> I think half the problem, and I noticed it right away, is that your using the tool wrong.... Instead of using the entire disc surface, tip it a little bit so your riding more on the edge, works pretty well actually.
> 
> ...


Well spank my fanny and call me Sally! I just read your post, then watched the video again, and - miracle of miracles - I saw that the surface being sanded was a panel of a garage door. I guess I would not recommend either Durabond or Gardz for this.

What I am curious about is what exterior spackle would be good to fill these depressions and what primer should go over the spackle. Also, should anything be done to the surfaces that the spackle will be adhering to? Rough it up or apply some kind of hard gripping primer that the spackle can adhere to?

I still would approach the problem the same way as I originally posted, only with exterior products instead of interior. I will take note of what others here recommend.

futtyos


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## Eagle Cap Painter (Nov 14, 2016)

There's a plethora of exterior grade fillers out there. Tubes of Bondo and hardener are never a bad thing to keep around, but I think Elmer's or Crawford's are where most people go first. Just remember that exterior grade fillers are much more difficult to sand than spackle, so don't leave them too proud.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

Eagle Cap Painter said:


> There's a plethora of exterior grade fillers out there. Tubes of Bondo and hardener are never a bad thing to keep around, but I think Elmer's or Crawford's are where most people go first. Just remember that exterior grade fillers are much more difficult to sand than spackle, so don't leave them too proud.


I mix the 2....50/50. Best stuff ever imo for most things interior or ext. Dries hard and sands easy. On the ops deal though I'd grab some bondo. It's too close to the ground... a moisture zone. Bondo would probably do a bit better in the long run I think...
But yes (op), there's a load of fillers to choose from. Save the sanding till ya have something sand.

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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

You might want to try this, I ordered some for my garage repair but put it off till next spring.
http://www.painttalk.com/f12/game-changing-wood-filler-needs-your-tool-bag-81297/


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Ready Patch oil based?*



Technogod said:


> So funny no body mansion Ready patch compound.
> this product is impressive.inside or out. drys fast and rock hard.spreads easy.sands like a dream.honestly another good product from Zinsser.
> You guys have to try for sure.


I have been thinking about using this on surfaces like bare wood or sanded MDF as it is not a water based product. I don't think I have used this since the 1980s, but your description encourages me to try it again. How well does it stick to surfaces?

futtyos


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

I like Ready Patch a lot for certain things. It is quite durable, seems to hold up well outside and would probably be my choice for an application like the one in the OP. 

Two drawbacks I see to It are it’s high shrinkage and that it’s kinda hard to sand compared to some fillers. It’s good stuff though. 


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## PNW Painter (Sep 5, 2013)

By the time you've sanded the doors flat there wouldn't be any wood left. Since garage doors are subject to a lot of torsion and vibration I'd use a 2 part Epoxy such as Bondo or System Three Scuptwood Paste or Putty.


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## Worker Bee (Jun 2, 2017)

and for the love of god, stay away from rockhard lol I have never seen that stuff last, ever.


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## Betheweb (Jul 26, 2016)

The wood is actually pretty smooth. I don't want to sand the wood at all. The roughness is mainly from old paint chipping off. I just want to soften that transition. My sander won't even go through the paint. I remember Jmayspaint posted a picture where he sanded down a whole door. How did you do that? Or what about a deck that won't strip and you have to sand the whole thing down? I was experimenting a little with a fiber stripping disc from Harbor Freight. I don't have a die grinder, so I just chucked it into my drill at a much lower RPM. It sort of worked, but it was easy to build up too much heat and the paint would bubble.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*tough paint!*



Betheweb said:


> The wood is actually pretty smooth. I don't want to sand the wood at all. The roughness is mainly from old paint chipping off. I just want to soften that transition. My sander won't even go through the paint. I remember Jmayspaint posted a picture where he sanded down a whole door. How did you do that? Or what about a deck that won't strip and you have to sand the whole thing down? I was experimenting a little with a fiber stripping disc from Harbor Freight. I don't have a die grinder, so I just chucked it into my drill at a much lower RPM. It sort of worked, but it was easy to build up too much heat and the paint would bubble.


BTW, at this point I am curious as to what paint you are having difficulty sanding through with 40 grit! If it is that durable I might want to be using it.

futtyos


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

futtyos said:


> BTW, at this point I am curious as to what paint you are having difficulty sanding through with 40 grit! If it is that durable I might want to be using it.
> 
> futtyos


Agreed. That's practically gravel glued to paper. It should be cutting through virtually anything.


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## Betheweb (Jul 26, 2016)

futtyos said:


> BTW, at this point I am curious as to what paint you are having difficulty sanding through with 40 grit! If it is that durable I might want to be using it.
> 
> futtyos


Emerald Urethane Trim Enamel. I slapped that on first before I decided to try to sand it. No clue what the old chipping paint is.


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## Betheweb (Jul 26, 2016)

I found some 24 grit in the Home Depot rental department and I stuck it on with some spray adhesive. The white is ProClassic over green All Surface Enamel. 

https://vid.me/0AfOu

If I push really hard and use the corner of the sander, it will eventually grind it's way through the paint, but still doesn't give me a smooth blended edge. It isn't anything I would want a customer to see me doing. It actually cuts the bare wood much faster. 

Intuitively, the random orbit idea makes sense to me, but it's only 3 amps. I'm wondering if I should try something like this:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/DEWALT-5-in-Variable-Speed-Disk-Sander-DWE6401DS/203316362


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## Betheweb (Jul 26, 2016)

This is a 120 grit sanding screen on 8.5 amp angle grinder. 

https://vid.me/t8wS0

A little bit hard to control while holding the camera, but it works better than anything I put on the ROS. Actually a little too aggressive. I wish I could dial down the speed. That 6 amp disk sander might be just right - especially with the dust extraction.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

My wife's made some pretty impressive artwork basically doing the same thing you're doing in the last video. Sold it for some pretty decent money. Just saying. Art through destruction or subtraction.

If you really want to have some fun, take your dewalt sander. Remove the thing you attach the sanding discs to. There will be a white plastic restrictor ring there. Take that out. Replace the thing you attach the sanding disc to. Be careful on start up, the thing will try and torque itself out of your hand. It'll also dig really deep into whatever you're sanding if you're not careful. Enjoy your new turbo sander.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Angle grinder ID*



Betheweb said:


> This is a 120 grit sanding screen on 8.5 amp angle grinder.
> 
> https://vid.me/t8wS0
> 
> A little bit hard to control while holding the camera, but it works better than anything I put on the ROS. Actually a little too aggressive. I wish I could dial down the speed. That 6 amp disk sander might be just right - especially with the dust extraction.


This is one big reason I love Paint Talk: Betheweb, could you please tell me the make and model of the 8.5 amp angle grinder you are using in this video?

I am currently trying to remove old flaking paint and rust from a metal balcony divider on a hi rise unit in Chicago. The divider has vertical slats and I have been looking for some tool that would allow me to sand into areas that need a thin disk to reach into. The tool I see on your video looks like just the ticket for what I am trying to do!

As to what you are trying to accomplish, I really don't care anymore. Just joking.

You say that you don't want to sand the wood, that you just want to sand the paint smooth so you have an even finish to paint over? If this is correct, why don't you use a heat gun to strip the paint? I guess that I am not understanding what it is that you want to do here.

Could you take photos of the whole door and tell us what you want the finished product to look like? So far, I appreciate your pics and vids, but some like me need to see the whole rather than just close-ups of problem areas.

futtyos


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## Betheweb (Jul 26, 2016)

futtyos said:


> This is one big reason I love Paint Talk: Betheweb, could you please tell me the make and model of the 8.5 amp angle grinder you are using in this video?
> 
> I am currently trying to remove old flaking paint and rust from a metal balcony divider on a hi rise unit in Chicago. The divider has vertical slats and I have been looking for some tool that would allow me to sand into areas that need a thin disk to reach into. The tool I see on your video looks like just the ticket for what I am trying to do!
> 
> ...


Here's the grinder:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Bosch-8...h-No-Lock-On-Paddle-Switch-AG40-85P/204124539

Ahhh yes. Stripping paint with a heat gun. That is another thing I have heard of people doing, but I could never get it to work! Maybe tomorrow I will make a video of myself failing miserably at trying to strip paint. Probably I just need a bigger heat gun. I just have a 1200W Wagner. I think it was about $17. 

I don't really want to strip all the paint anyway. That would be a lot more work. I just want to smooth out the transition between where the paint chipped off and where it didn't chip off. I want to do a quick sanding to feather that out and blend it. That's it. I feel like that would look better. But maybe I'm thinking about this completely the wrong way. 

It's not mission critical. I was just tinkering around a little bit. I have been frustrated for awhile in situations like this. I feel like I've learned quite a bit. I'll be back there on Wednesday. If the customer is not around, maybe I will play with it some more.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

Betheweb said:


> Here's the grinder:
> 
> https://www.homedepot.com/p/Bosch-8...h-No-Lock-On-Paddle-Switch-AG40-85P/204124539
> 
> ...


Why not just fill it and then sand it out. That's gonna look better anyway and with less effort.

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## Betheweb (Jul 26, 2016)

lilpaintchic said:


> Why not just fill it and then sand it out. That's gonna look better anyway and with less effort.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


1) Dry time
2) Possible issues with filler (popping out, shrinking, etc.)
3) How is filling AND sanding less effort than just sanding?

I'm not trying to be argumentative. Most people do seem to go with the filler. But I'm pretty lazy. 

Maybe on a large job, the dry time won't matter. I'll save time because the filler will be much easier to sand. And I wouldn't have to sand a bunch of lead paint. 

For a small job, the benefit is less clear.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Betheweb said:


> 1) Dry time
> 2) Possible issues with filler (popping out, shrinking, etc.)
> 3) How is filling AND sanding less effort than just sanding?
> 
> ...


The filler won't pop out, just make sure to get any dust out of those holes. It may shrink depending on which one you use. Use the non shrinking one. Sanding the filler will be 4 billion times less effort than the monumental task of what you're currently trying to achieve with those grinders and orbitals.

Even on a small job, smashing a bit of filler in there isn't gonna cost you much time. Get some fast drying stuff.

It'll be less noisy as well.


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## Betheweb (Jul 26, 2016)

I guess the picking the right filler is key. 

At the bottom is 3M patch and primer. That wouldn't be my first choice to hold up on a garage door, but it dried quickly and sanded smooth. 

In the middle, I just sanded. That worked pretty well, considering I gouged up the wood pretty well with my 5 in 1. You can see a little stripe of how badly it was beaten up. 

The Minwax 2 part filler is taking forever to dry. I'm still waiting on it.


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## Eagle Cap Painter (Nov 14, 2016)

Bondo.

E: What you're doing with grinders and such is creating a smooth, but not flat surface. It might look flat head on, but there's no place you can stand where you're not viewing some part of a garage door at an angle, and that's where those cavities (however shallow) are going to stand out. Fillers allow you to restore an even plane that reflects light uniformly.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Put enough creme hardener in the bondo and slow drying won't be an issue, I assure you. Lol.


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