# Make your own stain?



## jaybird88 (Mar 4, 2020)

Anyone here make their own stain? I build fences and decks, I get calls to stain but usually refer them to someone else because the price of stain is so high and no one wants to spend the money. im interested in the oil based stains, i know the acrylic is a lot cheaper but also has a reputation of leaving angry customers. 

Anyone have experience with this?


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

jaybird88 said:


> the price of stain is so high and no one wants to spend the money.


Your in the wrong market when $50 decides when you get a job or not


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Your in the wrong market when $50 decides when you get a job or not


Agreed. 
If you finish building a nice deck for someone and they quibble over a possible $50 difference (for the whole job) between the cost of a cheap stain versus a good one, you either need to educate them, do as you’ve been doing and forgo doing the staining, or start working for customers who won’t scream about paying a bit more for quality.


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## jaybird88 (Mar 4, 2020)

these are fences not decks. 90% of fences built here are for privacy not cosmetics. They are generally made from cheap #3 pine. Very different from decks


a 300 ft fence is gonna cost a customer $14-1600 with a nice deck stain. The fence cost $3k - $4k to build. Thats almost 50% of the cost to build the fence in the first place. Im not pushing anyone on that because I myself think its to much money and I been in this biz for 20 years. The wood itself comes pressure treated from the yard, you think they are paying an additional 50% for that process, hell no. 


the basic ingredient of stain is oil/solvent/color. How hard can it be, working men used to do it all the time.


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

jaybird88 said:


> these are fences not decks. 90% of fences built here are for privacy not cosmetics. They are generally made from cheap #3 pine. Very different from decks
> 
> 
> a 300 ft fence is gonna cost a customer $14-1600 with a nice deck stain. The fence cost $3k - $4k to build. Thats almost 50% of the cost to build the fence in the first place. Im not pushing anyone on that because I myself think its to much money and I been in this biz for 20 years. The wood itself comes pressure treated from the yard, you think they are paying an additional 50% for that process, hell no.
> ...



Except, only 15-20% of that $1500 is the actual material, the rest is labor to apply said stain. So now if you are trying to lower the cost of $300 in material, you literally are crying about the cost of a $50/gallon of stain. Sure you could make your own, I guess, but hey, heres an idea!!, let the experts in stain production mix it, can it, label it, test it, make sure it works, then ship it, and sell it to you, they do all the work.
One note, a fence does not need to have any protection what so ever after it is installed. Sure its nice to have some level of UV protection but its not neccessary. You build the fence, if your customer wants to have a color or six months worth of waterproofing, great they need to pay for it.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

MikeCalifornia said:


> jaybird88 said:
> 
> 
> > these are fences not decks. 90% of fences built here are for privacy not cosmetics. They are generally made from cheap #3 pine. Very different from decks
> ...


Not to mention your time spent procuring, mixing and disposing of materials.

Honestly you would be better off by just negotiating better pricing on whatever products through your supplier than making your own.


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## Brushman4 (Oct 18, 2014)

jaybird88 said:


> these are fences not decks. 90% of fences built here are for privacy not cosmetics. They are generally made from cheap #3 pine. Very different from decks
> 
> 
> a 300 ft fence is gonna cost a customer $14-1600 with a nice deck stain. The fence cost $3k - $4k to build. Thats almost 50% of the cost to build the fence in the first place. Im not pushing anyone on that because I myself think its to much money and I been in this biz for 20 years. The wood itself comes pressure treated from the yard, you think they are paying an additional 50% for that process, hell no.
> ...


Back in the day, many painting contractors made their own paints they did this in the slow season, usually wintertime to keep their apprentices and journeymen working. Labor then was much, much cheaper, so were raw materials and environmental regulations.

Do you want to build fences or become a stain manufacturer? Why not take it to the next step and buy some timberland and build a mill to make your own fencing?


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## jaybird88 (Mar 4, 2020)

MikeCalifornia said:


> Except, only 15-20% of that $1500 is the actual material, the rest is labor to apply said stain. So now if you are trying to lower the cost of $300 in material, you literally are crying about the cost of a $50/gallon of stain. Sure you could make your own, I guess, but hey, heres an idea!!, let the experts in stain production mix it, can it, label it, test it, make sure it works, then ship it, and sell it to you, they do all the work.
> One note, a fence does not need to have any protection what so ever after it is installed. Sure its nice to have some level of UV protection but its not neccessary. You build the fence, if your customer wants to have a color or six months worth of waterproofing, great they need to pay for it.



15-20% would come out to $225-$300 for the stain. 15 gallons to cover 300' would bring the cost of stain to roughly $18 dollars a gallon. If I could get it that price I wouldnt have made the thread.


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## jaybird88 (Mar 4, 2020)

Brushman4 said:


> Back in the day, many painting contractors made their own paints they did this in the slow season, usually wintertime to keep their apprentices and journeymen working. Labor then was much, much cheaper, so were raw materials and environmental regulations.
> 
> Do you want to build fences or become a stain manufacturer? Why not take it to the next step and buy some timberland and build a mill to make your own fencing?



I thought back in the day labor was higher, there were labor unions, one income could easily support a home, and there was no credit which meant they owned their home, car, truck, etc. 
sounds like working folks were smarter back then when they made their own stain rather than today when a working man asks about making it he gets mocked and ridiculed for it.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

jaybird88 said:


> I thought back in the day labor was higher, there were labor unions, one income could easily support a home, and there was no credit which meant they owned their home, car, truck, etc.
> sounds like working folks were smarter back then when they made their own stain rather than today when a working man asks about making it he gets mocked and ridiculed for it.


Working men, back in the day, also had thicker skin. I wouldn't sweat the critiques. Just make some stain and see if it works. I still tint my own paint when necessary.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

CApainter said:


> jaybird88 said:
> 
> 
> > I thought back in the day labor was higher, there were labor unions, one income could easily support a home, and there was no credit which meant they owned their home, car, truck, etc.
> ...


No problem making your own stain just go get a barrel of linseed oil, thinner and some oil ground pigments. Add a uv package and mildewicide if you want. If your really industrious make your own PTO or distill some pine tar resin.

Is it worth the effort and dangers of oil? Imo not really when you can get ready made products for $100/bucket. Cwfuv or Behr stain for example. I'm sure plenty of other stains for sub $20 if you actually look for them. Hell just go thin some latex paint and call it a day.


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## PNW Painter (Sep 5, 2013)

One thing to consider is that your labor cost shouldn’t change wether you use a cheap or expensive stain. If you bill your client for the time it takes to buy and mix your own stain I can imagine it would be cheaper, unless you’re mixing 100’s of gallons.

Sometime I’ll include options for 2-3 different products in estimates. The estimate will either say add or subtract $***.XX from the grand total below for *** product. 

I’ll educate the clients how the products differ and let them decide what works best for their needs and/or budget.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> No problem making your own stain just go get a barrel of linseed oil, thinner and some oil ground pigments. Add a uv package and mildewicide if you want. If your really industrious make your own PTO or distill some pine tar resin.
> 
> Is it worth the effort and dangers of oil? Imo not really when you can get ready made products for $100/bucket. Cwfuv or Behr stain for example. I'm sure plenty of other stains for sub $20 if you actually look for them. Hell just go thin some latex paint and call it a day.


I look at it the same way as if someone wants to brew their own beer, or make their own donuts. Both are a lot more convenient and cheaper to buy at a store, but some people just like to do it themselves. 

For example, I'm in the process of making my own pencils. And yes, it is extremely tedious to drill that seven inch long by 1/16th inch diameter hole, but knowing I did it myself, brings me joy.


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

Used motor oil and kerosene...that's what my grandfather used to have me do the 1500 ft of split rail fence on his farm with, when I was a kid. Just keep the grill away from the fence for a while afterwards!


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Lightningboy65 said:


> Used motor oil and kerosene...that's what my grandfather used to have me do the 1500 ft of split rail fence on his farm with, when I was a kid. Just keep the grill away from the fence for a while afterwards!


Only issue with used motor oil is it leaches heavy metals into the ground.


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## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

Given that I've not done anything like this for exterior, I probably have nothing to add... 

But, probably like many others, I've done my own interior pickling kinds of things simply by thinning out paint. I will do this where someone really likes their painting color scheme, and wants some woodwork "stained" in some manner that matches well. So I just use whatever the paint is in the place and thin it down. I'll do it with oil or latex, and everyone I've ever done it for has been thrilled. I always experiment first to get the mix right for whatever level of transparency they like.

In any case, mostly I agree with those who think it makes the most sense to just buy the stain - especially keeping in mind that the labor cost is far more significant. But if someone wanted me to do this on an exterior I'd give it a whirl just with the proviso that I'd be unable to guarantee anything about longevity. And if you're just talking about cheap fencing and it might help you out in life, why not give it a whirl. I'd start by trying out a some things and letting them age a year or so in the sun before charging anyone to do it tho.


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Only issue with used motor oil is it leaches heavy metals into the ground.


I don't think my grandfather cared!:biggrin:


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## Fman (Aug 20, 2011)

CApainter said:


> I look at it the same way as if someone wants to brew their own beer, or make their own donuts. Both are a lot more convenient and cheaper to buy at a store, but some people just like to do it themselves.
> 
> For example, I'm in the process of making my own pencils. And yes, it is extremely tedious to drill that seven inch long by 1/16th inch diameter hole, but knowing I did it myself, brings me joy.


You should get with Lightningboy65 on that. He's from Pencilvania.


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## Fman (Aug 20, 2011)

jaybird88 said:


> I thought back in the day labor was higher, there were labor unions, one income could easily support a home, and there was no credit which meant they owned their home, car, truck, etc.
> sounds like working folks were smarter back then when they made their own stain rather than today when a working man asks about making it he gets mocked and ridiculed for it.


It depends on how far back in the day with unions and one income families. I'd say the heyday for both was after WWII to 1980. It was a good time for unions and wages and life in general. Once E-Z credit was invented (and the Women's Liberation Movement began) the powers that be had already figured that if you get dad and mom both working, they'll buy more things on credit. As for ridiculing working men, eh- that's been going on for forever. Kinda timeless really.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

jaybird88 said:


> I thought back in the day labor was higher, there were labor unions, one income could easily support a home, and there was no credit which meant they owned their home, car, truck, etc.
> sounds like working folks were smarter back then when they made their own stain rather than today when a working man asks about making it he gets mocked and ridiculed for it.


I don’t think anyone is mocking or even ridiculing you, just questioning the need to make something that is readily available commercially and which you can calculate into a bid. And if you ask about making it on a forum such as this, many are going to question the need to do so - it’s the nature of the format, nothing personal.

Bottom line, it’s your business so if you feel it’s a smart business move to produce it yourself, go for it. Obviously, most here simply wouldn’t go that way.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

CApainter said:


> I look at it the same way as if someone wants to brew their own beer, or make their own donuts. Both are a lot more convenient and cheaper to buy at a store, but some people just like to do it themselves.
> 
> For example, I'm in the process of making my own pencils. And yes, it is extremely tedious to drill that seven inch long by 1/16th inch diameter hole, but knowing I did it myself, brings me joy.


Well THAT I can understand. Last time I bought a package of #2s the price was outrageous.:devil3:


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## Fman (Aug 20, 2011)

Here's a tutorial that might help if anybody wants to make pencils.


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

jaybird88 said:


> 15-20% would come out to $225-$300 for the stain. 15 gallons to cover 300' would bring the cost of stain to roughly $18 dollars a gallon. If I could get it that price I wouldnt have made the thread.



I think your math is off?? Why would you need 15 gallons of stain. If the fence is 300' x 5' that is 1500 sq/ft for one side which is the figure you gave us to start. So by the math, you would be charging $1 per sq/ft. A typical gallon of nice oil stain with tax is about $50 and covers 175-300 sq/ft per gallon. So if you maxed out the finish, it would take 5-6 gallons, or $300.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

OMG! that video was funny!

On a serious note, I actually use lead wire. It's a lot easier to insert. Just a tip.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

CApainter said:


> OMG! that video was funny!
> 
> On a serious note, I actually use lead wire. It's a lot easier to insert. Just a tip.


I would think that just like with other “objects” just a tip isn’t enough. You need lead (or graphite and clay) the entire length of your pencil.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

MikeCalifornia said:


> I think your math is off?? Why would you need 15 gallons of stain. If the fence is 300' x 5' that is 1500 sq/ft for one side which is the figure you gave us to start. So by the math, you would be charging $1 per sq/ft. A typical gallon of nice oil stain with tax is about $50 and covers 175-300 sq/ft per gallon. So if you maxed out the finish, it would take 5-6 gallons, or $300.


 That would work if it were a nice flat fence, but most fences Im familiar with you have to double the square footage to take into account the sides of boards, and supports and what not. 

I would definitely figure on about 12 gallons for a fence that size. Not that I do a whole hell of a lot of fences, but when I have, its taken a lot more stain that I figured.


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

Fman said:


> You should get with Lightningboy65 on that. He's from Pencilvania.


#1 vacation spot for pencils in the world. Like most natives of lands that are inundated with tourists, I hate tourists!!! And thus hate pencils. You won't find one pencil in my house....all pens!

Any type of collabo involving pencils ain't gonna happen. Not with me....:vs_mad:


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## Fman (Aug 20, 2011)

CApainter said:


> OMG! that video was funny!
> 
> On a serious note, I actually use lead wire. It's a lot easier to insert. Just a tip.


"Oh, honey- I'm just gonna put the tip in..." That'll put lead in your pencil...


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

Woodco said:


> That would work if it were a nice flat fence, but most fences Im familiar with you have to double the square footage to take into account the sides of boards, and supports and what not.
> 
> I would definitely figure on about 12 gallons for a fence that size. Not that I do a whole hell of a lot of fences, but when I have, its taken a lot more stain that I figured.



However much stain it takes, I'm just baffled by the OP question of trying to make his own stain. To stain a fence cost what it costs, its really up to the HO to decided if that works for them. Like I said, no need to spend the money, wood will not just fall apart if its not coated.


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## Bend Oregon Painters (Mar 10, 2020)

I've never considered making my own stain for deck & fence projects, but this thread has got me thinking. I probably still won't for those bigger projects, but occasionally I'll do custom furniture (primarily outdoor stuff like outdoor dining tables & benches) and I wonder if I could actually charge more money for making a custom stain? Clients like the idea of having something completely unique to them, so what about using this "handmade" process to increase your value and price for the project?


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Bend Oregon Painters said:


> I've never considered making my own stain for deck & fence projects, but this thread has got me thinking. I probably still won't for those bigger projects, but occasionally I'll do custom furniture (primarily outdoor stuff like outdoor dining tables & benches) and I wonder if I could actually charge more money for making a custom stain? Clients like the idea of having something completely unique to them, so what about using this "handmade" process to increase your value and price for the project?



Rather than making your own stain (that's a rabbit hole of how deep you want to go producing raw materials) IMO you would be better off using existing products but incorporating new techniques into your finishes.


for example shou sugi ban + metal complex dye under an exterior stain produces really beautiful rich layered look that would be difficult for anyone else to reproduce.


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

RH said:


> Well THAT I can understand. Last time I bought a package of #2s the price was outrageous.:devil3:


It's like when you come across that closet in a home where the HO works in a big office, institution , or school. Shelves full of office supplies. Thumb tacks, paper clips, pens, pencils, paper, post it notes (the 3M ones, not the knock offs)....the list is endless. Hundreds, if not thousands of dollars worth of office supplies. Their closet is probably better stocked than the supply closet at their office.

I often wondered if my employees had a closet full of paint supplies at their homes??? Brushes, rollers, maybe a sprayer or two.....:surprise:


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## illusionsgame (Aug 1, 2010)

If it's just cosmetic? Easy. I had a customer who makes bird houses. He traded me one as $ off his bill. He just adds a cup of latex paint to water and stains.
My bird house has been out there for 3 years: stain is fine. I'm in the cold north too.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Bend Oregon Painters said:


> I've never considered making my own stain for deck & fence projects, but this thread has got me thinking. I probably still won't for those bigger projects, but occasionally I'll do custom furniture (primarily outdoor stuff like outdoor dining tables & benches) and I wonder if I could actually charge more money for making a custom stain? Clients like the idea of having something completely unique to them, so what about using this "handmade" process to increase your value and price for the project?


The beer industry has proven that there is a market for "Craft" products, even though large manufacturers can produce similar and cheaper products. But, there has to be an aesthetic value attached to the craft producer that is appealing to the target market. For example: Craft beer makers typically have big beards, plaid shirts, and earth tone coveralls, giving them a wholesome, everyday mountain guy look that's appealing to the techno urbanites.

Now for a "Craft" stain product, instead of marketing as the typical wood crafter, maybe market the stain as a "boutique" product. Kind of like what the skin conditioning market does for wrinkles and age spots, but for wood instead. 

I could see the brand being a happy tree rubbing her scrubby bark with "Lorielle's Wood Conditioner and Toning Agent'


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

CApainter said:


> The beer industry has proven that there is a market for "Craft" products, even though large manufacturers can produce similar and cheaper products. But, there has to be an aesthetic value attached to the craft producer that is appealing to the target market. For example: Craft beer makers typically have big beards, plaid shirts, and earth tone coveralls, giving them a wholesome, everyday mountain guy look that's appealing to the techno urbanites.
> 
> Now for a "Craft" stain product, instead of marketing as the typical wood crafter, maybe market the stain as a "boutique" product. Kind of like what the skin conditioning market does for wrinkles and age spots, but for wood instead.
> 
> I could see the brand being a happy tree rubbing her scrubby bark with "Lorielle's Wood Conditioner and Toning Agent'


Not sure this analogy works. The craft beer industry has grown because the beer produced is far superior to the mass produced products. The reason it is better because they use better ingredients...which produces a much better tasting beer...not similar at all. And the reason why some of these beers cost so much is that they are using a lot more ingredients to produce beers with more alcohol, and aging them for weeks and months in bourbon barrels. Which means that idiots like me are now willing to pay $20 for a 4 pack of pints....when you consider a decent beer like Sam Adams can be had for $16 for a 12 pack...can you imagine the cost of a gallon of stain. I think Storm solid stain is great at around $40 and cannot imagine a product that would cost as much as $600 a gallon being that much superior. California and Ben Moore do not use cheap ingredients like Budweiser and Coors.

Sent from my SM-A600U using Tapatalk


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

CApainter said:


> The beer industry has proven that there is a market for "Craft" products, even though large manufacturers can produce similar and cheaper products. But, there has to be an aesthetic value attached to the craft producer that is appealing to the target market. For example: Craft beer makers typically have big beards, plaid shirts, and earth tone coveralls, giving them a wholesome, everyday mountain guy look that's appealing to the techno urbanites.
> 
> Now for a "Craft" stain product, instead of marketing as the typical wood crafter, maybe market the stain as a "boutique" product. Kind of like what the skin conditioning market does for wrinkles and age spots, but for wood instead.
> 
> I could see the brand being a happy tree rubbing her scrubby bark with "Lorielle's Wood Conditioner and Toning Agent'



Don't dig too deep, you may not like what you find. As the big brewers started losing market share to craft brewers, the big guys started buying up the craft brewers. Many, if not most, craft beers with any type of market share beyond regional, are owned by a big brewer. In fact two or three of the largest brewers probably own 90% of the beer market.

A quick Google search will shock many as to the degree the beer industry has become an oligopoly.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Lightningboy65 said:


> Don't dig too deep, you may not like what you find. As the big brewers started losing market share to craft brewers, the big guys started buying up the craft brewers. Many, if not most, craft beers with any type of market share beyond regional, are owned by a big brewer. In fact two or three of the largest brewers probably own 90% of the beer market.
> 
> A quick Google search will shock many as to the degree the beer industry has become an oligopoly.



As long as it gives me a buzz, what do I care.


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