# One coat coverage.



## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

I'm curious if anyone has had any success with the various "one coat" products, like Valspar ultra and signature lines. I've been seeing great results from the ultra. In this house we covered red enamel in one coat. Best looking enamel walls I have ever done. Not great photos


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

I find that hard to believe, although I've never used valspar. The only time paint seems to cover in one coat is when you hit something your not supposed to.


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## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

this one time , I painted eyes on my wifes' eye glasses - she thought she went blind til she realized what happened, but it did cover in one coat !:thumbsup: and I heal quickly anyway:yes:


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

See it's amazing!

Accidentally hit stained trim it'll cover in one coat and won't come off. Yet when you WANT to paint stained trim it takes a primer and two top coats.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

joshmays1976 said:


> I'm curious if anyone has had any success with the various "one coat" products, like Valspar ultra and signature lines. I've been seeing great results from the ultra. In this house we covered red enamel in one coat. Best looking enamel walls I have ever done. Not great photos


 I'm in dismay Joshmay


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Two coats for a color change is standard. Sell it as the norm for a more true color and coverage.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

We have tried that so called one coat coverage stuff, 4 or 5 coats later the walls looked ok. Light colover dark color what a nightmare that job was.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Had to do a wine red on my current job. 4 coats!!!
Fortunately I had bid for it.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

If you really put it on thick, I mean 4mills all over like it says in the spec latex paint will do amazing stuff. Have been working on achieving this kind of coat for 5 years. It's really different than standard cut and roll methods. It actually blows my mind how good it looks. The paint stays wet on the wall a lot longer, three or four hours. It will flow out great.


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## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

joshmays1976 said:


> If you really put it on thick, I mean 4mills all over like it says in the spec latex paint will do amazing stuff. Have been working on achieving this kind of coat for 5 years. It's really different than standard cut and roll methods. It actually blows my mind how good it looks. The paint stays wet on the wall a lot longer, three or four hours. It will flow out great.


you like cake ? Chocolate is my favorite:thumbsup:


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Scotiadawg said:


> this one time , I painted eyes on my wifes' eye glasses - she thought she went blind til she realized what happened, but it did cover in one coat !:thumbsup: and I heal quickly anyway:yes:


Did the bandage cover in one coat?


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

RH said:


> Had to do a wine red on my current job. 4 coats!!!
> Fortunately I had bid for it.


I have had Auro from Ben moore cover in two coats with a a wine red color


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

joshmays1976 said:


> If you really put it on thick, I mean 4mills all over like it says in the spec latex paint will do amazing stuff. Have been working on achieving this kind of coat for 5 years. It's really different than standard cut and roll methods. It actually blows my mind how good it looks. The paint stays wet on the wall a lot longer, three or four hours. It will flow out great.


Sounds faster to just do it twice.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Dave Mac said:


> I have had Auro from Ben moore cover in two coats with a a wine red color


Yup, if a customer says red I say Aura. The time saved doing it a million times more than offsets the price of aura. 

Sw came out with a red base in pm200 that worked pretty good. I got ladybug red to cover in three coats on a bedroom accent wall a couple weeks ago, I was pretty surprised. It was a last minute change and the nearest bm dealer was 45mins away so I gave it a go.


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## scottjr (Jan 14, 2012)

Just my 2 cents. I wouldn't bid a job, with a color change, for 1 coat. 
What if it doesn't hide in 1?
I would bid it for at least 2 depending on the color.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

What I'm really wondering if many other people painting today are paying attention to application. Surely the industrial and commercial guys do? I thought I was an awesome painter for a long time, until I realized I was usually getting on about half a coat of paint. , the people who make latexiintend for it to be put on that heavy.


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## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

joshmays1976 said:


> What I'm really wondering if many other people painting today are paying attention to application. Surely the industrial and commercial guys do? I thought I was an awesome painter for a long time, until I realized I was usually getting on about half a coat of paint. , the people who make latexiintend for it to be put on that heavy.


so, in essence, you're calling out all the pros on their methods of application


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

scottjr said:


> Just my 2 cents. I wouldn't bid a job, with a color change, for 1 coat.
> What if it doesn't hide in 1?
> I would bid it for at least 2 depending on the color.


This red cover job was an hourly. The customer was very happy, I. Saved a lot of money by only having to do one. Honestly I did not really dream it would cover at first. Four mills, it really blows my mind still. Gotta try it


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Scotiadawg said:


> so, in essence, you're calling out all the pros on their methods of application


 Not sure about that but he is on a mil thickness kick


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Sounds faster to just do it twice.


It's basically the same thing as doing it twice in terms of amount of paint on the wall. But one time over is always faster than two. The real difference is in the way it flows out. Perfect eggshell is no prob


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## David's Painting (Nov 7, 2012)

joshmays1976 said:


> This red cover job was an hourly. The customer was very happy, I. Saved a lot of money by only having to do one. Honestly I did not really dream it would cover at first. Four mills, it really blows my mind still. Gotta try it


What is the method your using to get these results?


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

I used to think the one coat coverage labels were a complete joke. They even put it on roller covers! I love Aura , can't beat it. I think the main thing about it is its more forgiving to thin application. It will cover great and look good with just 2 mills or so. But they recommend 3.8. It really looks awesome then


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## Red Truck (Feb 10, 2013)

I say in the long run - two coats is easier. What happens with thirsty walls? What happens when "just a few spots" need touch up? Or when the the roll is thicker than the cut.. 

I can appreciated the struggle, and the results. But still. Most guys have had enough of playing that game with color changes anyways 

Also, yay Aura!


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Pretty standard really just more paint. I dip the roller every four feet or so, I mean really load it, for the first pass. Go over an area maybe 100square as quick as I can. Come back with random and side to side strokes then finish with a down stroke. Actually had my apprentice roll this time and I cut with them, the goal being consistency. When you paint something and its not covered any where but the cut line it's because that's where it's heavy.


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## Northwest_painter (Jan 27, 2012)

joshmays1976 said:


> This red cover job was an hourly. The customer was very happy, I. Saved a lot of money by only having to do one. Honestly I did not really dream it would cover at first. Four mills, it really blows my mind still. Gotta try it


Hourly Job and you finished early and made more money:001_unsure::whistling2:
There are a few things I have learned over the years. one of them is painting early on when my Rich Uncle had me do maintenance on his real cool ship for him AKA Uncle Sam US Navy on the USS Painter everyday. Putting paint on to thick it cures wrong and your going to have issues. I always did two coats no matter what so it dries correctly looks good and gives the best service to the customer. I would never slap on paint that thick then collect a check.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Northwest_painter said:


> Hourly Job and you finished early and made more money:001_unsure::whistling2:
> There are a few things I have learned over the years. one of them is painting early on when my Rich Uncle had me do maintenance on his real cool ship for him AKA Uncle Sam US Navy on the USS Painter everyday. Putting paint on to thick it cures wrong and your going to have issues. I always did two coats no matter what so it dries correctly looks good and gives the best service to the customer. I would never slap on paint that thick then collect a check.


I don't see how you can go wrong applying at the recommended thickness. The guys in the labs making and testing the paint do know what they are talking about.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I say if your customer is happy with the results from one coat, who am I to argue. As far as having an epiphalogical [not a real word according to the red highlight as I type it] experience from witnessing a one coat hide, there's a lot more to it then just that. For instance, painters and customers alike have been known to demand a certain smoothness on finishes that a heavy one coat application can't achieve compared to several coats with the appropriate roller sleeve.

I remember when I painted with a couple of union painters, hired on by my then non-union boss, for a short term project that required a lot of interior wall surface to be rolled in flat latex paint. These guys fitted their roller frames with what seemed like one inch nap lambs wool covers, and proceeded to haul ass like I've never seen. Me being the perfectionist, who always laid off walls in an upwardly direction to the sound of frying bacon from my roller, couldn't believe the wavy up and down pattern left behind by these two journeymen painters.

I guess the point is , the job was completed in a timely fashion, the customer was satisfied, the boys got paid, and I was left scratching my head, more confused about this trade then ever before.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

CApainter said:


> I say if your customer is happy with the results from one coat, who am I to argue. As far as having an epiphalogical [not a real word according to the red highlight as I type it] experience from witnessing a one coat hide, there's a lot more to it then just that. For instance, painters and customers alike have been known to demand a certain smoothness on finishes that a heavy one coat application can't achieve compared to several coats with the appropriate roller sleeve.
> 
> I remember when I painted with a couple of union painters, hired on by my then non-union boss, for a short term project that required a lot of interior wall surface to be rolled in flat latex paint. These guys fitted their roller frames with what seemed like one inch nap lambs wool covers, and proceeded to haul ass like I've never seen. Me being the perfectionist, who always laid off walls in an upwardly direction to the sound of frying bacon from my roller, couldn't believe the wavy up and down pattern left behind by these two journeymen painters.
> 
> I guess the point is , the job was completed in a timely fashion, the customer was satisfied, the boys got paid, and I was left scratching my head, more confused about this trade then ever before.


Union guys hauling ass, now that's a sight to see!
Must have been after their fourth mandatory coffee break. :jester:


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

joshmays1976 said:


> This red cover job was an hourly. The customer was very happy, I. Saved a lot of money by only having to do one. Honestly I did not really dream it would cover at first. Four mills, it really blows my mind still. Gotta try it


Four mils is not a thick coat of paint!! That is standard for any latex paint, with dry to 1.5. A thick coat would be 8-10 IMO, basically applying two coats. I have gotten SW Duration Home and Emerald to cover in one, just have to move slower than normal to get adequate material on the wall. The cut in is the hardest part, especially trying to work with it unthinned for coverage.

Your picture looks odd? Is that the same color on both walls? I see a grey tan rolled down, but a gold tan cut into the jamb, did you make a mistake. Then in the finished pic the colors are switched.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

MikeCalifornia said:


> Four mils is not a thick coat of paint!! That is standard for any latex paint, with dry to 1.5. A thick coat would be 8-10 IMO, basically applying two coats. I have gotten SW Duration Home and Emerald to cover in one, just have to move slower than normal to get adequate material on the wall. The cut in is the hardest part, especially trying to work with it unthinned for coverage.
> 
> Your picture looks odd? Is that the same color on both walls? I see a grey tan rolled down, but a gold tan cut into the jamb, did you make a mistake. Then in the finished pic the colors are switched.


I was wondering about the three colors myself but figured there must be a reason.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

MikeCalifornia said:


> Four mils is not a thick coat of paint!! That is standard for any latex paint, with dry to 1.5. A thick coat would be 8-10 IMO, basically applying two coats. I have gotten SW Duration Home and Emerald to cover in one, just have to move slower than normal to get adequate material on the wall. The cut in is the hardest part, especially trying to work with it unthinned for coverage.
> 
> Your picture looks odd? Is that the same color on both walls? I see a grey tan rolled down, but a gold tan cut into the jamb, did you make a mistake. Then in the finished pic the colors are switched.


The pics are bad, im new to fancy phones.the other color was prime. There was border at the top that I skimmed and primed. All I can say is try it, get a gauge from SW and see how thick your coat is. It's easy.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

joshmays1976 said:


> The pics are bad, im new to fancy phones.the other color was prime. There was border at the top that I skimmed and primed. All I can say is try it, get a gauge from SW and see how thick your coat is. It's easy.


Yes that is what I'm saying 4mills is standard, I just don't see anyone Around here doing it. And for me, I never did it for 15 years and the results of doing it have been a major breakthriugh


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

RH said:


> Had to do a wine red on my current job. 4 coats!!!
> Fortunately I had bid for it.


Whiner!


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

joshmays1976 said:


> This red cover job was an hourly. The customer was very happy, I. Saved a lot of money by only having to do one. Honestly I did not really dream it would cover at first. Four mills, it really blows my mind still. Gotta try it


 Thanks a mill!:thumbsup:


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

mudbone said:


> Thanks a mill!:thumbsup:


That's 4 mil to you!


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## BhamPainter (Mar 6, 2013)

Just how thick is 4 mils? I'm really curious to try this. If all pros are really applying at 2 mils or so . . . boy, look out. I always try to put it on as heavy as possible without sagging.

Also, I still love Regal more than Aura . . . just saying.


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## Northwest_painter (Jan 27, 2012)

StepUpBham said:


> Just how thick is 4 mils? I'm really curious to try this. If all pros are really applying at 2 mils or so . . . boy, look out. I always try to put it on as heavy as possible without sagging.
> 
> Also, I still love Regal more than Aura . . . just saying.


4 mills is 4 millions of a inch thickness.


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## BhamPainter (Mar 6, 2013)

Northwest_painter said:


> 4 mills is 4 millions of a inch thickness.


Okay, fair enough. I guess what I meant to ask is how thick this will appear on the wall. Are we talking the consistency of a thick paste? How many passes do you get with, say, a 3/8" nap on smooth wall? 

I usually get a little less than the label-advertised coverage per gallon--reason tells me that this means I'm getting more than the recommended mils on there. With Regal, I almost always get two-coat coverage, regardless of color. The only time I haven't gotten two-coat coverage with Benjamin Moore was a bright yellow over a deep red. That was using Aura, and it took three.


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## matt19422 (Oct 2, 2009)

How can you have any production from a wall staying wet 3-4 hours?

We always do the drywall repairs, roll a first coat and revisit any imperfections with spackle, then get the repair area back to 1 coat, finish with second coat.

Guess it depends on the job, but 1 coat even with Aura is not acceptable to us.


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

CApainter said:


> I say if your customer is happy with the results from one coat, who am I to argue. As far as having an epiphalogical [not a real word according to the red highlight as I type it] experience from witnessing a one coat hide, there's a lot more to it then just that. For instance, painters and customers alike have been known to demand a certain smoothness on finishes that a heavy one coat application can't achieve compared to several coats with the appropriate roller sleeve.
> 
> _I remember when I painted with a couple of *union painters*, hired on by my then non-union boss, for a short term project that required a lot of interior wall surface to be rolled in flat latex paint. These guys fitted their roller frames with what seemed like one inch nap lambs wool covers, and proceeded to haul ass like I've never seen. Me being the perfectionist, who always laid off walls in an upwardly direction to the sound of frying bacon from my roller, couldn't believe the wavy up and down pattern left behind by these two *journeymen painters*._
> 
> I guess the point is , the job was completed in a timely fashion, the customer was satisfied, the boys got paid, and I was left scratching my head, more confused about this trade then ever before.


I hear ya there...

I saw these to Mexican Painters coming out of an unoccupied Apartment with a sprayer... Don't know WHAT it looked like in there when they were done. God only knows? And I'm not sure if these guys were *journeymen* or just plain - "on a journey"? :jester:


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

matt19422 said:


> *How can you have any production from a wall staying wet 3-4 hours?*
> 
> We always do the drywall repairs, roll a first coat and revisit any imperfections with spackle, then get the repair area back to 1 coat, finish with second coat.
> 
> Guess it depends on the job, but 1 coat even with Aura is not acceptable to us.


When I roll out a room, I bring in my high power fan. The air circulation speeds up the paint drying time, even on humid days - really...


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

MuraCoat said:


> When I roll out a room, I bring in my high power fan. The air circulation speeds up the paint drying time, even on humid days - really...


I love using fans. I'm impatient by nature and you can really dry paint fast if you want to. Have stopped doing it on most walls though, especially eggshell. I find that the longer it takes to dry the better it looks because it has More time to flow out


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## matt19422 (Oct 2, 2009)

joshmays1976 said:


> I love using fans. I'm impatient by nature and you can really dry paint fast if you want to. Have stopped doing it on most walls though, especially eggshell. I find that the longer it takes to dry the better it looks because it has More time to flow out


Same here, we have air movers but won't use them to speed up a cure time on finishes. They also stir up particles that end up sticking in your finish coats.


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## Stonehampaintdept (Jan 10, 2013)

When Aura first came out east and I was selling it, BM held a product seminar where we could test it out. They had the dark yellows, greens, reds, blues and white primed drywall set up. We were amazed at the coverage it was giving, seemed like a 1 coat product, but upon close inspection after the initial dry and speech section it was pretty conclusive you should have or needed at least a second coat. This was consistent with everyone's work. Now it was far beyond the 5 coats previously needed with conventional tint system and we were still amazed. The Trillion from California seems (to me after using both gennex and trillion side by side, same color) to have a bit more hiding power. I don't think Valspar has a WB tinting system, and the simple truth is conventional tints don't have the best hiding power. SW is introducing it to more product lines as time goes on. California's has been compatible with any of their product lines since it's launch years ago. BM may be up to that point now, not sure if it's some or all. Valspar seems like its making a business of killing off paint companies and simply trying to gain market share and presence. Here in New England Cabot was the go to exterior stain, locally made and still is. But they sold their soul to Valspar and it was on Lowes shelves in short order. Alot of Paint and hardware stores have marginalized or discontinued Cabots for that very reason. And we weren't seeing any new development behind it with the exception of re-formulating oils to put on the shelves. I sell various products to an industrial supplier who supplies the Cabot factory in Newburyport with whatever they need. (Nuts, Bolts, roller covers, light bulbs, etc.) It has become a ghost town of late having a hand full of chemists and an almost vacant warehouse as far as staff goes. It is to my understanding valspar's last oil based manufacturing plant.
Am I done yet. I should be doing something productive...........Away........


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

matt19422 said:


> Same here, we have *air movers* but won't use them to speed up a cure time on finishes. They also stir up particles that end up sticking in your finish coats.


Air mover? Cuz, that is too much power... I am talking a living room size room not some huge commercial job... :whistling2:

A fan dosen't stir up particles on my jobs. I use clean drop cloths, free of any spackle dust and I vacuum prior to starting any painting work.
Also, there is a speed dial on the fans. I set them properly and point the fan at the ceiling. My finishes turn out immaculate. 

"Cure time" and "dry time" to re-coat are two different animals...
I need my fans so I can recoat the same day. 

Humid days - and you need productivity - fan every time...

*Photo below - too much power.*


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

matt19422 said:


> Same here, we have air movers but won't use them to speed up a *cure time* on finishes. They also stir up particles that end up sticking in your finish coats.


*Curing Time*

Curing is the time it takes for latex to become durable and harden. When all the water and solvent have evaporated, the paint has cured; it has created a firm bond with the surface. This is often listed on the paint can as the time you must wait before scrubbing or washing the paint. It usually takes two to four weeks for latex paint to cure. Curing time can vary depending on the paint.


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## matt19422 (Oct 2, 2009)

Seriously Muracoat?

How about you stop following me around this forum picking apart my every post?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Northwest_painter said:


> 4 mills is 4 millions of a inch thickness.


4 mils is actually 4 thousands of an inch. Imagine how thin that is compared to 125 mils, which is only 1/8 of an inch thick.


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

Now this blower is perfect- small, aimable 3 speeds.


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

matt19422 said:


> Seriously Muracoat?
> 
> How about you stop following me around this forum picking apart my every post?


Following? Next thing you'll be using the word stalking... Please... 

Sorry, I won't share my experience with you anymore.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Two coats with aura is definitely the way to go. For me part of selling the expensive stuff is the warranty. Two coats of aura is required to get the warranty. However, if you are not applying to spec( not saying anyone here is not,but I see it all the time) then even after two coats you still don't have a warranted surface because its not thick enough.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Here's my best one coat, at my house. Did my dining room. The room original color was close to Jackson Tan (original owner, I just guessed with a fan deck). The light beige walls were painted 2 coats of #1052 Ultra Spec Low Sheen and the blue accent wall was 1 coat HC-154 Hale Navy in Aura Eggshell.

#1052 2 coats









HC-154 1 coat drying









Finished


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

CApainter said:


> 4 mils is actually 4 thousands of an inch. Imagine how thin that is compared to 125 mils, which is only 1/8 of an inch thick.


I thought it meant 4Millimeters. Metric


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## AZ Painting (Mar 19, 2013)

Never heard or used that product.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

joshmays1976 said:


> I thought it meant 4Millimeters. Metric


No, you are right, mil is a standard unit. Specs usually give microns too, that's the metric unit


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

^^^ internal dispute..


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Rbriggs82 said:


> ^^^ internal dispute..


I lose most of the arguments with myself...


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## wje (Apr 11, 2009)

TJ Paint said:


> I lose most of the arguments with myself...


Who wins then?


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

wje said:


> Who wins then?


The one who guides...

I just try to abide...

But I shove aside
to the wayside
mostly the wise side

And wonder why
I cant' sleep and sigh
From pain on the inside!


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)




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## Northwest_painter (Jan 27, 2012)

Why one coat should never be used. The first two are for the dough the third is for the show.


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## mustangmike3789 (Jun 11, 2011)

joshmays1976 said:


> If you really put it on thick, I mean 4mills all over like it says in the spec latex paint will do amazing stuff. Have been working on achieving this kind of coat for 5 years. It's really different than standard cut and roll methods. It actually blows my mind how good it looks. The paint stays wet on the wall a lot longer, three or four hours. It will flow out great.


as a person that checks wft & dft for hours per day every week, i can assure you that you are not getting a consistant 4 mils wft. any areas where you stopped, started or lapped will be thicker or thinner weather you brush, roll or spray. in order to achieve a minimum of 4 mils on a wet film gauge, you must always see wet paint on the 4 mil tooth of the gauge. when the lowest tooth (4 mils)is wet, this will be your minimum value meaning that you are applying the paint between 4 to 6 mils depending on the gauge used(most step @ 2 mils). wet film gauges are accurate on smooth substrates, any irregularities in the surface will affect your readings such as bumps or textures. paint will be thinner on the peaks of the profile and thicker in the valleys which will show as the paint drys and shrinks. pressing the gauge too firmly on a soft surface such as underlying paint or sheetrock paper can affect your readings.
specifications and product data sheets are written to allow tolerences in film thickness. just because the data sheet says to apply the product at minimum of 4 mils, it doesnt mean that it will completly cover or hide at that point. example: on a bridge painting project that required a minumum of 3 mils dft/5.3 wft using 57% solids urethane. the paint was applied to an *average* of 4 mils dft/7.1 wft, any areas that were less than 4 mils but but met the 3 mil minimum looked like dry flash or a dull appearance in the finish. upon closer inspection, it was apparent that 3 mils was not enough paint to completly hide the primer coat at the tops of the underlying surface profile peaks as the paint dried. 
the wet film gauge is a great tool to establish a base line to your desired finish but it is only accurate if used correctly and often. thinning products will also require adjustments in wft as this will change the solids by volume and final dft results. my guys will start a project and use the gauge frequetly in the begining stages to detemine a good spray technique/pattern and randomly use it toward the end to be sure that they did not become heavy or light handed along the way. spot readings should be checked randomly and in different areas as you go. 
on this same project when dft is measured in a 10x10 / 100sqft area. 15 spots will be measured every 1000 sqft and the results can be anywhere from 2.5 to 7.5 dft but the average will normally be around 4 mils depending on the paint applicator. lighter areas will normally be toward the top of a girder wall and heavier in the middle or were lap areas are even when applied at right angle cross passes. 
if you are getting good results in your application techniques then i wouldnt change anything. i still think that most brush or rolled finishes produce better end results with two finish coats in most cases. the paint that you are dealing with is only 37% sbv, so at 4 mils wtf it will dry to 1.4 mils dft which is a pretty thin coat imo.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

mustangmike3789 said:


> as a person that checks wft & dft for hours per day every week, i can assure you that you are not getting a consistant 4 mils wft. any areas where you stopped, started or lapped will be thicker or thinner weather you brush, roll or spray. in order to achieve a minimum of 4 mils on a wet film gauge, you must always see wet paint on the 4 mil tooth of the gauge. when the lowest tooth (4 mils)is wet, this will be your minimum value meaning that you are applying the paint between 4 to 6 mils depending on the gauge used(most step @ 2 mils). wet film gauges are accurate on smooth substrates, any irregularities in the surface will affect your readings such as bumps or textures. paint will be thinner on the peaks of the profile and thicker in the valleys which will show as the paint drys and shrinks. pressing the gauge too firmly on a soft surface such as underlying paint or sheetrock paper can affect your readings.
> specifications and product data sheets are written to allow tolerences in film thickness. just because the data sheet says to apply the product at minimum of 4 mils, it doesnt mean that it will completly cover or hide at that point. example: on a bridge painting project that required a minumum of 3 mils dft/5.3 wft using 57% solids urethane. the paint was applied to an average of 4 mils dft/7.1 wft, any areas that were less than 4 mils but but met the 3 mil minimum looked like dry flash or a dull appearance in the finish. upon closer inspection, it was apparent that 3 mils was not enough paint to completly hide the primer coat at the tops of the underlying surface profile peaks as the paint dried.
> the wet film gauge is a great tool to establish a base line to your desired finish but it is only accurate if used correctly and often. thinning products will also require adjustments in wft as this will change the solids by volume and final dft results. my guys will start a project and use the gauge frequetly in the begining stages to detemine a good spray technique/pattern and randomly use it toward the end to be sure that they did not become heavy or light handed along the way. spot readings should be checked randomly and in different areas as you go.
> on this same project when dft is measured in a 10x10 / 100sqft area. 15 spots will be measured every 1000 sqft and the results can be anywhere from 2.5 to 7.5 dft but the average will normally be around 4 mils depending on the paint applicator. lighter areas will normally be toward the top of a girder wall and heavier in the middle or were lap areas are even when applied at right angle cross passes.
> if you are getting good results in your application techniques then i wouldnt change anything. i still think that most brush or rolled finishes produce better end results with two finish coats in most cases. the paint that you are dealing with is only 37% sbv, so at 4 mils wtf it will dry to 1.4 mils dft which is a pretty thin coat imo.


Thanks for the info. I'm in very interested in the details of checking thickness. What tool can you use to check dft on drywall or other non magnetic surfaces? I think the new valspar ultra is over 40% solids and is supposed to dry to 1.9


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

There are ultrasonic dft gauges for nondestructive testing. I think around $2,000.


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## mustangmike3789 (Jun 11, 2011)

i dont paint drywall and i dont really see the need to measure film thickness on residential painting. i think that as long as you get good even coverage, you are where you need to be. i have to check film thickness on my jobs because it is written in the specs and we are a SSPC- QP 1 painting contractor, so it is also required in my audits so that we conform to their standards and practices. 
http://www.defelsko.com/applications/drywall.htm


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## mustangmike3789 (Jun 11, 2011)

DeanV said:


> There are ultrasonic dft gauges for nondestructive testing. I think around $2,000.


you are correct. i just got the new positector 6000 but im not sure what it cost us. the new 6000 is very fast and can do multiple task such as ultrasonic, magnetic and can be used to read enviromental conditions even though i still used the old sling psychometer and charts for temp, rh and dew point temps.
http://www.defelsko.com/p6000/positector6000.htm



 
as you can see in the video, mils are not consistant even over a blasted profile metal plate with plastic shims of a known thickness.


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

mustangmike3789 said:


> i dont paint drywall and i dont really see the need to measure film thickness on residential painting. i think that as long as you get good even coverage, you are where you need to be.http://www.defelsko.com/applications/drywall.htm


:yes:


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

ProWallGuy said:


> :yes:


If I am selling expensive coatings with lifetime guaranties And don't apply close to the spec it voids the warranty from what I understand. With the high cost of aura and emerald the warranty can be a big selling point. It's not in the Same league with doing a bridge or something but I think it's worth paying attention too. I'm selling coatings and the application of coatings so I want to know how thick they are supposed to be to get maximum performance.


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## mustangmike3789 (Jun 11, 2011)

joshmays1976 said:


> If I am selling expensive coatings with lifetime guaranties And don't apply close to the spec it voids the warranty from what I understand. With the high cost of aura and emerald the warranty can be a big selling point. It's not in the Same league with doing a bridge or something but I think it's worth paying attention too. I'm selling coatings and the application of coatings so I want to know how thick they are supposed to be to get maximum performance.


 there are many things that will void the warranty on a paint job and the mil thickness would probably be on the bottom of the list and highly unlikely to be tested or looked at during a failure analysis in a residential job. even in my field with such tight tolerances and testing, there is nothing that says that a paint that requires 4 mils dft wont be successful if applied at 3.8 mils. in fact, this has been an on giong debate for years. now that new gauges can read a coatings down to the thousandths versus older gauges that read to the 10th of a mil, the same paint job that passed inspection 20 years ago would fail today just because the gauge is more accurate now and litigation threats make inspectors affraid to allow any leeway for fear of a law suit. an older type gauge would have read coating thickness at 4 mils but if the same paint job is read with a newer gauge it would fail inspection at 3.96 mils. 
i think that what you are doing as far as reading mils is a good practice but the end result should be what you are looking for. if i were doing a residential job, i could easily calculate the spread rate of the paint to determine if im giving the customer what they paid for. checking wet film thickness is doing you no good as far as warranty if it is not properly documented and recorded. 
in my field we document *everything. *
*pre inspection of initial surface cleanliness.*
*visible and non visible contaminates( soluble salts, oils, dirt, debris)*
*surface prep.*
*pressure washer, size, psi*
*solvent cleaning*
*power tool, hand tool or abrassive blast cleaning*
*vial test for abrassive contaminates*
*stripe coating.*
*holiday inspection.*
*ambient conditions at least every 4 hours.*
*mixing/thinning*
*batch #'s/mfg dates*
*induction times*
*pot life*
*shelf life*
*surface temps*
*paint temps*
*surface profile measurements*
*dft/wft primer coat*
*dft/wft intermediate coat*
*dft/wft finish coat*
*runs, sags, bliters, craters, pinholes, mud cracking ect...*
*proper repair tecniques*
*sprayer type, pressure, tip size, line size and length*
*recoat times.*
*the list goes on and on.*
as i do this for quality controll, there is also a third party quality assurance inspector overseeing all of this too. paints will still fail and contractors will still get the raw end of the deal in most cases. it is very rare that a paint failure is due to a few tenths of a mil. wft/dft is a good way to document and insure that the contractor is using the correct amount of paint according to specs/data sheets and that the customer is getting what they paid for. we can eliminate all of the inspection stuff in the list and still provide a nice looking paint job in the end but this also boils down to what is the difference in a good paint job and a bad one. just the look of the final appearence can fool anyone and this is why hacks can get by as contractors. the final finish has many secrets hidden under it to determine the difference.


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## IHATE_HOMEDEPOT (May 27, 2008)

Covering a dark color is easier than applying a dark color.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

For me the big deal about the big deal about it is that when I really started paying attention, I realized that I and most every painter I saw was lucky to be getting half a coat on, way more than a few tents difference. Hence horror stories about the five coats or red it took for some wall, or not being able to cove white with a slightly different white. Also tool and flash marks. When I finally realized how much paint you have to put in to get a full coat so many classic problems of latex were solved.
I live in a rural area and outside of a good apprenticeship I don't have a ton of experience with a community of pros. I am curious if other residential painters have went through any of this. I'm sure lots of pros always get it on right, or close enough. But I have personally seen few. 
The difference in my finished product has improved, I'm doing things I never thought possible. Like covering red in one coat, yes with true color for touch up. And perfect egg shell with no flash at all. I was thinking someone would get on here and say something like " ya I know what you mean man you gotta put it on thick" but most seem to think I'm crazy or doing sub- standard work


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

And there is no way to know if you are even getting close to putting on a thick Enough coat unless you check and see. I was very surprised and I have a feeling a lot of painters would be too. I would challenge anyone to just check and see, it's easy and free. Kinda like a poll or something. Very possibly most pros do put on a full coat and I just don't know. But you do see a lot of whining about coverage.


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## mustangmike3789 (Jun 11, 2011)

i get what you are saying. changing your technique can suprise even yourself. i think that most guys will load up their roller to where it is almost dripping but not so bad that it slides instead of rolls on the wall.
back when i had my decorative concrete business, i had a guy that had a bad habbit of dry rolling and trying to get every drop out of the roller sleeve as if it were easier or faster than dipping the nap and keeping it wet. after we would split the pool deck or driveway and meet back at the other side, the difference in my finish and his was quite drastic. he would usually have to change his nap in the process since he squeezed the life out of it or it would look like a cone with his application method. once he finally understood that he had to keep it wet and let the roller do the labor for him instead of forcing it, he was impressed with his results too. 
even on flat work where you can easily load up the paint without fear of runs, the jobs still required 2 coat to make a nice uniform coat. the second coat goes on much easier and smoother than the first coat making it a lot easier to keep the paint flowing evenly.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

joshmays1976 said:


> And there is no way to know if you are even getting close to putting on a thick Enough coat unless you check and see. I was very surprised and I have a feeling a lot of painters would be too. I would challenge anyone to just check and see, it's easy and free. Kinda like a poll or something. Very possibly most pros do put on a full coat and I just don't know. But you do see a lot of whining about coverage.


Josh,

I think you offered up some good advice about proper film thickness, that can't be disputed. I'm certain most of the members here would agree. However, Mustang Mike makes a good point about where mil thickness is critical, and where its not. By default, and through years of experience, a painter is going to know when they've applied too little or too much paint on a surface whether its industrial or residential. 

Still, its encouraging to read about your observations of paint application, and how it goes beyond the standard brush and roll, but also includes the technical dynamics of paint film formation. I look forward to reading more of your trade discoveries.


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

I pulled it off, today, with (1) coat of Valspar...
I painted it like this so you guys could see it was REALLY (1) coat.

Customer was pleased.


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

Pretty good hide, Mura 

I wish One Coat Coverage would reply to this thread.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

MuraCoat said:


> I pulled it off, today, with (1) coat of Valspar...
> I painted it like this so you guys could see it was REALLY (1) coat.
> 
> Customer was pleased.


Cool, I tried to cover some bright blue with off white aura yesterday just to see if I could. I barely could but not with true color. The valspar impresses me, I like the ultra, the signature is more expensive but doesn't seem any better


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

joshmays1976 said:


> Cool, I tried to cover some bright blue with off white aura yesterday just to see if I could. I barely could but not with true color. The valspar impresses me, I like the ultra, the signature is more expensive but doesn't seem any better


Above, I used the Valspar with primer over the red...

Here is (1) coat of Duration over Zinsser primer (after straining :blink
Now this was a deep base.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

My car painting buddy liked valspar too, said it was thicker, did well and was less expensive. 
I wonder if there is a bunch of valspar haters out there too?


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

joshmays1976 said:


> My car painting buddy liked valspar too, said it was thicker, did well and was less expensive.
> I wonder if there is a bunch of valspar haters out there too?


Oh yes there surely is.


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## Red Truck (Feb 10, 2013)

You do realize we can't see any real detail here right? And that paint often looks different once it "dries" and "cures?" I have had jobs look great with one coat - but give it a day and you can tell the wall was more thirsty than you thought.....just saying.



MuraCoat said:


> I pulled it off, today, with (1) coat of Valspar...
> I painted it like this so you guys could see it was REALLY (1) coat.
> 
> Customer was pleased.


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## modernfinish (Mar 20, 2013)

joshmays1976 said:


> My car painting buddy liked valspar too, said it was thicker, did well and was less expensive.
> I wonder if there is a bunch of valspar haters out there too?


I actually liked American traditions at lowes and I like valspar now . I use whatever paint brand I am closest to. I never heard anyone complain about paint like I see here . I apply any brand equally as most paints are made at the same factory's just different labels. Some have more water and more expensive paints have less , I thin it out to my desired viscosity . I do like certain oil base quick dry paint because I am able to roll a door that looks damn near sprayed that frazee sells but sherwin williams just bought them out too.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Yea, I've encountered very few really sucky paints if you put it on right. My least favorite is the lower grade contractor stuff, but even it can do ok. 
On a job I was asked to use color place for a mauve bedroom. I complained a little about it and said it would prob take an extra coat. It handled a little weird and took forever to dry but it surprised me


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

MuraCoat said:


> I pulled it off, today, with (1) coat of Valspar...
> I painted it like this so you guys could see it was REALLY (1) coat.
> 
> Customer was pleased.


 
looks pink to me


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## Craftworks (Apr 2, 2013)

Valspar yes - but Valspar ultra Have not had a chance to try yet , but look forward to it , Me being from a time when red covered well enough , to then NOT covering well at all, and now it's back to normal and more ,Indicates a need to restructure pricing.If a product goes 4 mils in one coat then you need charge according to the true skill needed to apply. Aura is a 2 coat and the first coat requires me to slow down and apply more methodically. I am sure I will like Valspar ultra as I like a paint that requires you to really load heavy and work and drys a bit slower for that technique . That paint will require a different stile of workmen ship. For me the a fast prime coat was always my test to see what was really up with the walls, so often then a few last min fixes would happen then a spot prime & the 2 top coats . I am not sure I will ever want to give up on the prime coat but if i could then clearly I will have tobe extra careful with wall repair spot priming so time will still be spent but not distributed any more with last min fixes to prim coat or even first coat. All these newer paints are going to be excellent for any painter who always completed perfection before any primer or paint hit the wall. I feel lucky to have joined Paint talk as I am learning already. I already see Aura is worth $65 per gallon it's not a gimmick
----------------------------------
On the subject ( joshmays1976 )" lower grade contractor stuff, but even it can do ok." I was noticing with them - like the super spec line kinda equal to what used tobe normal premium paints . I believe we are coming of a new age, paints are great once more and even cheap paint are better then ever.


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

Red Truck said:


> You do realize we can't see any real detail here right? And that paint often looks different once it "dries" and "cures?" I have had jobs look great with one coat - but give it a day and you can tell the wall was more thirsty than you thought.....just saying.



I waited till the paint dried before I left.
Walls were not porous - painted over eggshell.
Customer was happy.
The check cleared. 
No call back yet.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

MuraCoat said:


> I pulled it off, today,


Congratulations. 

I've had times where I've "pulled it off" too. I don't like to approach projects with that mindset though. I like predictability, keeping it simple, smooth and steady.

I don't like approaching my jobs like a craps shoot. I could gamble more, cut corners and most of time I could probably get paid before the customer finds problems with it.

For me, I'd never even try to get a one coat coverage on a deep base like that over a builders white. Your picture doesn't show the finished product. I'm not saying I don't believe you, but I know from my own experience it don't look that great.


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

TJ Paint said:


> Congratulations.
> 
> I've had times where I've "pulled it off" too. I don't like to approach projects with that mindset though. I like predictability, keeping it simple, smooth and steady.
> 
> ...


Well, (1) coat of Valspar paint & primer in one, goes on much thicker than normal paints.

Honestly, a sweater vs. a 2nd coat, would not have been a bad idea. 

This was not a high-end job and they did get what they paid for. IMO - the job looked presentable. The customer did inspect when the job was completed and they were happy. And that is what counts. :thumbsup:


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

chrisn said:


> looks pink to me


Awww, love when it's soft and pink too...


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## modernfinish (Mar 20, 2013)

trying to load up the wall with paint just to prove it covers well should be second to a tight stipple and zero drag marks . If your technique allows for a snappy tight stipple then awesome but if not the second coat always goes on in half the time or less of first.


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## One Coat Coverage (Oct 4, 2009)

Most oil trim will cover in one coat if it is a similar color. Walls will only cover in one coat ( and look good) if its the same color and same or very close sheen.


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

One Coat Coverage said:


> Most oil trim will cover in one coat if it is a similar color. Walls will only cover in one coat ( and look good) if its the same color and same or very close sheen.


Valspar - you can apply (2) coats in one application.


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## Craftworks (Apr 2, 2013)

The only way to know will be to try . I remember once I had a living room to paint and the walls were painted Black really it was a black room, it was a Ben Moore Sani- Flat as I found the old can in basement . What I remember that showed me some truth was 2 coats of Ben Moor Aqua Velvet Atrium White covered perfect ( I did not prime ) Porosity of the walls is a deciding factor
Any job that you prime walls first to ensure even porosity will always come out better. But the black room i just mentioned I had faith in the oil finish acting well as a base and it did . 
So lets get real are you in good faith going try to one coat a raw sheet rock room .


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

MuraCoat said:


> Valspar - you can apply (2) coats in one application.


That's what I thought when I first started experimenting with heavy application. That's what it feels like compared to the standard way I had always used and seen others use. Then I got curious about how the heavy coats I was applying really compared to the 4 Mils most recommend. When I checked, even as heavy as I thought I was applying, it was barely 3 Mils in most places. It really surprised me.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Craftworks said:


> Valspar yes - but Valspar ultra Have not had a chance to try yet , but look forward to it , Me being from a time when red covered well enough , to then NOT covering well at all, and now it's back to normal and more ,Indicates a need to restructure pricing.If a product goes 4 mils in one coat then you need charge according to the true skill needed to apply. Aura is a 2 coat and the first coat requires me to slow down and apply more methodically. I am sure I will like Valspar ultra as I like a paint that requires you to really load heavy and work and drys a bit slower for that technique . That paint will require a different stile of workmen ship. For me the a fast prime coat was always my test to see what was really up with the walls, so often then a few last min fixes would happen then a spot prime & the 2 top coats . I am not sure I will ever want to give up on the prime coat but if i could then clearly I will have tobe extra careful with wall repair spot priming so time will still be spent but not distributed any more with last min fixes to prim coat or even first coat. All these newer paints are going to be excellent for any painter who always completed perfection before any primer or paint hit the wall. I feel lucky to have joined Paint talk as I am learning already. I already see Aura is worth $65 per gallon it's not a gimmick
> ----------------------------------
> On the subject ( joshmays1976 )" lower grade contractor stuff, but even it can do ok." I was noticing with them - like the super spec line kinda equal to what used tobe normal premium paints . I believe we are coming of a new age, paints are great once more and even cheap paint are better then ever.


http://lrs.ed.uiuc.edu/students/fwalters/para.html


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## Craftworks (Apr 2, 2013)

chrisn said:


> http://lrs.ed.uiuc.edu/students/fwalters/para.html


Clearly in order for me to grow I have 2 things to study English and you web page I am a dinosaur in some ways , Knowledge - truck - tools -will power
was all I ever needed . Now web pages . pictures . good writing ability


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

To re-rail here- It's interesting to me that a lot of people here seem to have a negative view of a one coat job. Like its ripping the customer off, or "cutting corners" . Isn't less coats a selling point for modern latex? I've seen the cost analysis ads for aura where the paint costs twice as much but labor is reduced because it requires less coats. Same with valspar and other paints. They don't push this claim too much, in the valspar commercial it's kind of a mumble at the end, "just one coat". And If you ask a rep they will prob tell you two coats is best anyway. SW duration ext can be warranted with one coat if applied at 8 Mils. I called a SW rep to confirm this and they said " we'll yes, but that's hard to do" . 
Well, yes it is hard to do. It is hard to approach 4 mil applications for interior latex even, especially with brush and roller.

On a side note, this spell checker is awesome, you only have to attempt to spell a word.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

joshmays1976 said:


> To re-rail here- It's interesting to me that a lot of people here seem to have a negative view of a one coat job. Like its ripping the customer off, or "cutting corners" . Isn't less coats a selling point for modern latex? I've seen the cost analysis ads for aura where the paint costs twice as much but labor is reduced because it requires less coats. Same with valspar and other paints. They don't push this claim too much, in the valspar commercial it's kind of a mumble at the end, "just one coat". And If you ask a rep they will prob tell you two coats is best anyway. SW duration ext can be warranted with one coat if applied at 8 Mils. I called a SW rep to confirm this and they said " we'll yes, but that's hard to do" .
> Well, yes it is hard to do. It is hard to approach 4 mil applications for interior latex even, especially with brush and roller.
> 
> On a side note, this spell checker is awesome, you only have to attempt to spell a word.


I don't think people have a negative view of 1 coat jobs as much as a pessimistic view of it being attainable in any consistent basis. It's very rare to get paint to cover well in one coat, even with Aura, but it does happen.


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## Craftworks (Apr 2, 2013)

One coat under what conditions , and I don't mean to repeat but am I the only one who after a coat does a final wall check up to see if a touch of Spackle here and there is needed. A 2 coat job will never be worse .so if one is going for a 1 coat job. prep is harder.You know the deal you work on wall areas you think need more work, but look fine with the paint and a spot or 2 show up after paint cause it was hard to see. My pet peeve has always been when I put my final top coat on walls are complete and alls fare before the top coat


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Not to beat a dead horse but yesterday painted several different colors in new house. Master bedroom accent wall was painted a color called Boston Brick by Behr. We used Behr ultra eggshell and this dark red covered over pm400 low sheen swiss coffee, textured walls in one coat. Of course we gave a second coat for good mil thickness. One coat with behr is possible. A second room with dark purple accent covered in one coat as well. And yes we gave that a second coat. Just saying here behr will cover in one if need be.


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## mustangmike3789 (Jun 11, 2011)

since some paints seem to cover in one coat and the cutomer is happy. as an experiment, i would suggest that you paint one wall with one coat, allow it to dry for a recoat and then apply a second coat to only 1/2 of the wall and see if the customer is still happy or if it even made a difference.


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

mustangmike3789 said:


> since some paints seem to cover in one coat and the cutomer is happy. as an experiment, i would suggest that you paint one wall with one coat, allow it to dry for a recoat and then apply a second coat to only 1/2 of the wall and see if the customer is still happy or if it even made a difference.


On one half of a wall, fill every little ping, ding, and thoroughly palm sand, then on the other half, just do the average prep job, then paint the wall with (5) coats of paint - and then see if the customer is happy?   :jester:


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

MuraCoat said:


> On one half of a wall, fill every little ping, ding, and thoroughly palm sand, then on the other half, just do the average prep job, then paint the wall with (5) coats of paint - and then see if the customer is happy?   :jester:


I have never once exceeded three coats of paint. I have only once done one coat. There have been many times one would have most likely sufficed. But I still do two.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Ever "pull off" a one coat job and then do some touch ups?

How'd that work out?


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

TJ Paint said:


> Ever "pull off" a one coat job and then do some touch ups?
> 
> How'd that work out?


I was hoping no one would go there. Didn't want anyone to feel like an asshat...


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

TJ Paint said:


> Ever "pull off" a one coat job and then do some touch ups?
> 
> How'd that work out?


You don't touch up, you re-roll the wall. I don't think I will be touching up anyway... I am done and outta there. :thumbsup:

And Para, I'm not feeling like an asshat...
Also, they got a (1) coat price.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

TJ Paint said:


> Ever "pull off" a one coat job and then do some touch ups?
> 
> How'd that work out?


Know what you mean. When I was younger and knew everything I was doing an addition, 1500 ft or so, and had done one coat primer and one finish and it looked great. Final touch up day came, and people were moving in the next day
It was off white and every touch showed. I was baffled, the contractor was baffled, I had no explanation because I didn't understand true color. Ended up staying half the night re coating it all
But back then I was only painting about half a coat on at a time. The first time I used emarald I told the HO one cost would probably cover(. Red, and green over white prime) but that often one coat wouldn't give true color. But with a good full coat it did and touched fine. 
I don't mean that can happen every time, but it has a lot lately for me. I don't think I'm doing something new at all, really, just realizing the full potential of paint if put on close to spec. Surely many others are doing it too, and better than me.
Will work on a video, communication like this is a challenge


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

Ever had clients for 25 years?
I have. 
There is no such thing as " you're outta there" unless you plan on never having referrals or repeat biz.


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

BrushJockey said:


> Ever had clients for 25 years?
> I have.
> There is no such thing as " you're outta there" unless you plan on never having referrals or repeat biz.


My customer thoroughly inspected the end product and said, "it looks great", "can you give me a price to do my family room"? That was on Friday... So I am waiting on additional work (I'll keep you posted).


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

BrushJockey said:


> Ever had clients for 25 years?
> I have.
> There is no such thing as " you're outta there" unless you plan on never having referrals or repeat biz.


 Referrals and repeat business. PRICELESS :thumbup:


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

BrushJockey said:


> Ever had clients for 25 years?
> I have.
> There is no such thing as " you're outta there" unless you plan on never having referrals or repeat biz.


Well said.


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## mustangmike3789 (Jun 11, 2011)

MuraCoat said:


> On one half of a wall, fill every little ping, ding, and thoroughly palm sand, then on the other half, just do the average prep job, then paint the wall with (5) coats of paint - and then see if the customer is happy?   :jester:


Who said anything about 5 coats and half ass prep work. I'm just curious to see if you or your customers would notice a difference in quality in one coat vs two. Also, since you don't do touch up and just repaint the whole wall, would that be considered a second coat?


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## MuraCoat (Jan 26, 2013)

mustangmike3789 said:


> *Who said anything about 5 coats and half ass prep work.* I'm just curious to see if you or your customers would notice a difference in quality in one coat vs two. Also, since you don't do touch up and just repaint the whole wall, would that be considered a second coat?


I gave you an example - so I am the one that said it. 

I do repaints and when I am finished a job, there is no need for touch ups.


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