# Spraying setup advice



## joeUKpainter (Jul 26, 2017)

What better place to get spraying advice than you American boys who seem to be the experts and much more experienced with it than us.
Been spraying for about a year now but Ive only been doing a ton of drywall mistcoats(first coat on bare drywall, not sure what you call mistcoat?) but really want to try out doing a whole apartment/house.We're doing apartments at the moment and Im going to be giving it a go soon.Ive done silly amounts of research on youtube and forums but Im always doubting myself so wondered if I can get a confirmation on the gear I think Im going to need going by the research Ive done.
For the mistcoats Ive been using a Q-tech QP025 with a 817 tip at around 2700 psi.Its been great but we've had it years (previously used by people who didn't really know what they was doing with it regarding cleaning etc) and Im getting a few big problems with it now and basically want to upgrade and look after the new one properly from day one.
Anyway the setup I am thinking of getting within my budget is:

Walls and ceilings - Graco ST Max ii 495 pc pro
Tip - 817 blue rac x 

Wood work - Graco ultra max cordless 
Tip - 210 Green FFLP

Obviously I'll be getting all the masking gear I need too but its the sprayers and tips Im looking for reassurance on mainly.
Does that sound like a correct, strong enough and good setup to you experienced sprayers? 
Its obviously going to be getting a lot of use thats why I thought Id get a separate woodwork sprayer for ease of use and to save a bit of wear and tear from using one sprayer for everything.Ive also got a carpenter mate of mine to knock me up a door frame and door to practice on in the garage.
Any advice is much appreciated.


----------



## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

You're definitely talking about two different applications. The airless is great for large areas, where as the conventional air supplied HVLP spray set ups are great for controlling smaller items. I question the size of the tip (817). It may be too large for most applications.

I've only heard the term "mist coat" used as a method of spraying a very thin and quick pass of material for the purpose of creating adhesion for the following full coat of the same product. This helps prevent sags, but can also compromise a smooth finish.


----------



## joeUKpainter (Jul 26, 2017)

CApainter said:


> You're definitely talking about two different applications. The airless is great for large areas, where as the conventional air supplied HVLP spray set ups are great for controlling smaller items. I question the size of the tip (817). It may be too large for most applications.
> 
> I've only heard the term "mist coat" used as a method of spraying a very thin and quick pass of material for the purpose of creating adhesion for the following full coat of the same product. This helps prevent sags, but can also compromise a smooth finish.


Thanks for the reply.Ive only been using the 817 tip for mistcoating(exactly how you described, just a quick first coat on drywall/plaster ready for the next 2 top coats, sanding down walls between the 2nd and 3rd coat to make sure we get a smooth finish on the walls).Because its large areas I'm mistcoating and it hasn't got to be a great finish as its only a base coat I was actually going to ask if I could go larger than an 817 tip haha.I see the Idaho painter using a 1221 for this.
Would you recommend a hvlp instead of the ultra max cordless then?


----------



## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

joeUKpainter said:


> Thanks for the reply.Ive only been using the 817 tip for mistcoating(exactly how you described, just a quick first coat on drywall/plaster ready for the next 2 top coats, sanding down walls between the 2nd and 3rd coat to make sure we get a smooth finish on the walls).Because its large areas I'm mistcoating and it hasn't got to be a great finish as its only a base coat I was actually going to ask if I could go larger than an 817 tip haha.I see the Idaho painter using a 1221 for this.
> Would you recommend a hvlp instead of the ultra max cordless then?


You'll likely get replies that you are not building up the proper mils by mist coating. Particularly on porous surfaces such as bare drywall. Mist coating is typically reserved for non porous substrates like metal. Porous substrates require material penetration. This can be achieved by rolling on the material, or by applying a full even coat and allowing surface tention during coalescing to pull into the substrate.


----------



## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

Curious, why are you applying a mist coat of what I'm assuming is primer? And then followed by 2 coats of paint?

If done correctly you can do what we're use to doing which is:
1 heavy coat of primer
1 heavy coat of paint

The key is the thickness or mils. If you apply enough and of course the surface prep was done properly (sanded, cleaned, etc.) you should come out with a rubber smooth wall. That's how ours come out. But you do have to realize to spray very thick and lay out a lot of product. 

It's a technique and after awhile you get the hang of seeing what is too much and what isn't enough, as your spraying. 

On a side note, the bigger the pump the better off you are. Something you can afford of course, but there are many times a bigger pump has come in handy for us because with too small of a pump the bigger tips won't be utilized properly and the machine is over worked trying to keep up.


----------



## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

woodcoyote said:


> Curious, why are you applying a mist coat of what I'm assuming is primer? And then followed by 2 coats of paint?
> 
> If done correctly you can do what we're use to doing which is:
> 1 heavy coat of primer
> ...


I don't spray large interiors much. Is the 817 tip practical for priming unfinished interior drywall?


----------



## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

CApainter said:


> I don't spray large interiors much. Is the 817 tip practical for priming unfinished interior drywall?




Sure. That's a wider fan than I usually use, but in a wide open new construction setting I don't see it being a problem. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## joeUKpainter (Jul 26, 2017)

woodcoyote said:


> Curious, *why are you applying a mist coat of what I'm assuming is primer? And then followed by 2 coats of paint?
> 
> If done correctly you can do what we're use to doing which is:
> 1 heavy coat of primer
> ...


Thats with a roller don't forget.If I was spraying then definitely I'd do it the way you do.But at the moment Ive been spraying the mistcoats/primers all white and then we've got the colour spec for the walls afterwards(house builder being slow to make a decision).If I'd known the colour of the walls then I would of sprayed the mist coat in that colour and then just rolled once on top.Now we've got the colour spec I can mistcoat the walls in the colour they will be finished in and then roll and cut in once on top.Well actually I don't want to roll at all I want to get into spraying the lot hence this thread :biggrin:


----------



## joeUKpainter (Jul 26, 2017)

Jmayspaint said:


> Sure. That's a wider fan than I usually use, but in a wide open new construction setting I don't see it being a problem.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I get on great with it,I was using a 517 but Im getting more done and quicker with the 817.


----------



## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

CApainter said:


> I don't spray large interiors much. Is the 817 tip practical for priming unfinished interior drywall?


I don't mess with small tips like that, unless for closets or something. 

The first number I don't mess with much, the last two are the more important numbers.

Myself and my guys spray typical new construction interior work with 623 and 1223 tips.


----------



## PNW Painter (Sep 5, 2013)

woodcoyote said:


> I don't mess with small tips like that, unless for closets or something.
> 
> The first number I don't mess with much, the last two are the more important numbers.
> 
> Myself and my guys spray typical new construction interior work with 623 and 1223 tips.




Are you backrolling each coat?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

woodcoyote said:


> I don't mess with small tips like that, unless for closets or something.
> 
> The first number I don't mess with much, the last two are the more important numbers.
> 
> Myself and my guys spray typical new construction interior work with 623 and 1223 tips.


The sixteen inch fan just seemed a little much at twelve inches let alone what it would actually be at sixteen to twenty inches from the surface. No wonder it's misting.


----------



## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

joeUKpainter said:


> What better place to get spraying advice than you American boys who seem to be the experts and much more experienced with it than us.
> Been spraying for about a year now but Ive only been doing a ton of drywall mistcoats(first coat on bare drywall, not sure what you call mistcoat?) but really want to try out doing a whole apartment/house.We're doing apartments at the moment and Im going to be giving it a go soon.Ive done silly amounts of research on youtube and forums but Im always doubting myself so wondered if I can get a confirmation on the gear I think Im going to need going by the research Ive done.
> For the mistcoats Ive been using a Q-tech QP025 with a 817 tip at around 2700 psi.Its been great but we've had it years (previously used by people who didn't really know what they was doing with it regarding cleaning etc) and Im getting a few big problems with it now and basically want to upgrade and look after the new one properly from day one.
> Anyway the setup I am thinking of getting within my budget is:
> ...


The Graco 495 is a GREAT machine, has all the advanced features, but is much more expensive than what is needed (on a small pump) for spraying walls. I would put the money into a bigger, more basic pump for walls, and use a pump like the Graco 395 for trim work, woodwork, doors and exteriors. The Graco 395 is more affordable and still a great pump that is supposed to run up to a 517 tip.
You can even use the 395 at about $700 bucks to do interior walls if they are small homes or jobs. For interior walls I'd get a Graco 695, or Titan 640i.

Tip sizes: 817 is definately a mist coat tip. I would always run a 619 or 621 for regular coats including priming. Want a quick mist coat?, move gun faster. On trim, don't use a 210 unless it's small spots to spray. A 210 makes too skinny of a pattern and too concentrated paint fan. Use a 310 or 410. You can get close to the work surface and move gun faster with a 410 and not run the paint.

The Graco cordless gun is good, but in no way shape or form would I recommend one for day to day use and/or woodwork. 

Do not go to HVLP unless you have a special coating that requires it, like tinted lacquer.


----------



## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

PNW Painter said:


> Are you backrolling each coat?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No, we typically do not backroll. 

The problem being mostly is that because we put it on so thick the backroll would actually destroy the finish...horribly. 

There is too much product on the wall and you'd have to off load the roller constantly, risking smear marks and nasty stippling. 

If done right, it leaves a smooth finish and if you use a high quality paint product it'll come out even better.


----------



## joeUKpainter (Jul 26, 2017)

ridesarize said:


> The Graco 495 is a GREAT machine, has all the advanced features, but is much more expensive than what is needed (on a small pump) for spraying walls. I would put the money into a bigger, more basic pump for walls, and use a pump like the Graco 395 for trim work, woodwork, doors and exteriors. The Graco 395 is more affordable and still a great pump that is supposed to run up to a 517 tip.
> You can even use the 395 at about $700 bucks to do interior walls if they are small homes or jobs. For interior walls I'd get a Graco 695, or Titan 640i.
> 
> Tip sizes: 817 is definately a mist coat tip. I would always run a 619 or 621 for regular coats including priming. Want a quick mist coat?, move gun faster. On trim, don't use a 210 unless it's small spots to spray. A 210 makes too skinny of a pattern and too concentrated paint fan. Use a 310 or 410. You can get close to the work surface and move gun faster with a 410 and not run the paint.
> ...


Thanks for the great advice buddy.If your talking about the st max ii 395 pc pro thats exactly what I was originally looking at but I can not find them anywhere in the UK.I might have to phone around because they are nowhere online in the UK.


----------



## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

joeUKpainter said:


> Thanks for the great advice buddy.If your talking about the st max ii 395 pc pro thats exactly what I was originally looking at but I can not find them anywhere in the UK.I might have to phone around because they are nowhere online in the UK.


I think i got mixed up, the 390 is what I was thinking for trim amd small jobs like doors etc. nice pump and gets the job done


----------



## joeUKpainter (Jul 26, 2017)

ridesarize said:


> I think i got mixed up, the 390 is what I was thinking for trim amd small jobs like doors etc. nice pump and gets the job done


Oh ok, the one with the non digital pressure gauge ?


----------



## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

joeUKpainter said:


> Oh ok, the one with the non digital pressure gauge ?


Probably. I don't use those at the moment but I see them at my paint store and chat once in a while about them. I've used 390's and 395's in the past but it's been years. 
I am using my bosses 695 Ultra max II on jobs, my other friend/ex-boss's Advantage 400 (some ppl grumble about those but it works great and I've used it for high end trim work and clear coats.)

I also have my own 695 Ultra Max digital that needs a repack, a Titan 1140ix brushless digital that needs parts, and a Amspray gigantic pump with like about 1.5 gpm.


----------

