# Commercial Bid Form & advice?



## SteveG (Nov 25, 2012)

Long time lurker, (read a ton here, thanks for all the info). For you commercial guys, do you use different forms for commercial vs residential? Ive been doing residential repaints since I started painting but Ive recently been given the opportunity to bid on a new 31 unit apartment building with 4 floors. Total wall/ceiling space of 105k sq ft plus the base, casings and chair rail in the 4 corridors, 42k sq ft of floor space. The GC told me they "like" to be around 100k to 110k, but if someone came in around 90k they would get some strong consideration. 

Ive figured things up at .2 sq ft for primer, .4 for paint (flat ceilings and walls, semi base and casings, satin baths and kitchens). Will mostly be spray. Now I dont have my figures in front of me but I figured that at 90k id be pocketing about half of that I believe, a little less maybe, then of course I figure another 25% of that off for things forgotten etc. This does include the materials costs, labor etc. The plan though is to bid it a little closer to 100k right now. I usually work alone but have 2 other guys I trust completely so I plan on using them, plus 3 nonskilled for backrolling etc. 

The walls and ceilings are all knockdown and I have access to everything as soon as drywallers are out of there, before the trim and doors etc are up. Ive been able to look at the other completed buildings in the complex that are exactly what Ill be doing and while talking to the GC he mentioned how the trim guys use minimal nails etc etc which I confirmed by looking for the nails in the trim the last painters did, good thing they werent that great at hiding them. He even said the guys doing the doors will set them all up for me for spraying and hang them when done. Hes been using the same guys for years, but the painters left town I guess. 

So first, what do you guys think of all the numbers and stuff, and second, when I asked the GC what they want to see on the bid, something very detailed or something simple, he said, some detail, but not "detailed", preferably by floor, so I plan on basically giving them the price, scope of work, paint info, and the number of days for expected completion per floor. I also asked about how long it normally took his other guys to get done and he said 6 weeks, sometimes 7 depending on problems etc, which is what I figured as well, but Ive never written anything up like this, usually just a very simple and basic very short contract for homeowners. So does anyone have a form, or know where I can get one for something like this? Does anyone have a semi simple one theyd be willing to share with me? Thanks for any tips and advice youre willing to share.


----------



## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Is there a finish schedule already in place? If so, a standard general painting practices should be all you need to submit along with your bid.


----------



## SteveG (Nov 25, 2012)

By finish schedule, do you mean the finish schedule on the prints for what gets painted and what sheen etc? If so then yes, sry but my first time actually using prints for a bid, and thanks for the response


----------



## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

SteveG said:


> By finish schedule, do you mean the finish schedule on the prints for what gets painted and what sheen etc? If so then yes, sry but my first time actually using prints for a bid, and thanks for the response


Yes. Sometimes they're referred to as a Paint Schedule because finish schedules can include things that are not related to painting.

The Paint/Finish Schedule gives you basically all of the scope of work in terms of what needs to be painted. What color goes where. And what sheen is spec's for a given product. They often don't include what primers are to be used, or how many coats are required. That's where, (aside from the specific needs a particular item may require), a generic general painting practices template covers procedures in terms of preparing and treating bare drywall, concrete, steel, and wood. Including protecting areas not to be painted, material storage, clean up, etc..

What is also often submitted, are cross referenced materials that can be used in place of a primary product specification. I believe that document is typically submitted by the architect.


----------



## kmp (Jan 30, 2011)

When I submit a bid for a commercial project I don't use a different bid form unless it is required by the g.c. and that form is usually in the bid documents. I just list the supplier and what i will be doing in terms of coats of primer, paint caulking etc. If there are no paint spec's, not uncommon, I will list what I am going to use. If there is something I don't feel like writing out I will just "per plans and spec's" and that cover it. Submitted products are sent in after I get the contract. I very seldom go for substitution's anymore cause it isn't worth dealing with an idiot architect to get something changed.


----------



## SteveG (Nov 25, 2012)

Thanks that makes sense. In the plans it calls for Benjamin Moore or SW so Ill be using SW but it doesnt have colors, thanks for the help.


----------



## Delta Painting (Apr 27, 2010)

The first thing I would work up is a pay schedule stating when I get draws and final payment..


----------



## SteveG (Nov 25, 2012)

He said something about using the A1A I think it was? I havent looked into that yet but I remember he said something about 3 weeks but I could talk to them and they may do 2? And something about going on percentages etc. I havent worried to much about it because Ive been working so much on learning everything from the beginning from scratch


----------



## kmp (Jan 30, 2011)

AIA pay schedule is what a lot of g.c.'s use.It is the American Institute of Architects standard form and I or my my wife has used it several times. She likes it as it will show all draws and payments to the penny. It has a bit of a learning curve to it. When you sign a contract you are agreeing to their pay schedule, usually pay apps in by the 25th and paid the next 25th. What you want or try to schedule for payment means nothing.


----------



## SteveG (Nov 25, 2012)

kmp said:


> AIA pay schedule is what a lot of g.c.'s use.It is the American Institute of Architects standard form and I or my my wife has used it several times. She likes it as it will show all draws and payments to the penny. It has a bit of a learning curve to it. When you sign a contract you are agreeing to their pay schedule, usually pay apps in by the 25th and paid the next 25th. What you want or try to schedule for payment means nothing.



Ok thats helps a lot thanks


----------



## kmp (Jan 30, 2011)

Percentages of payment is based on what you have on sight for materials and work finished. Don't ask for too much as you will be declined and you may have to wait for the next pay period.Do not miss a pay period deadline and don't always expect to get paid on the 25th, sometimes it can be the 30th or longer and there is nothing you can do about it except wait. After 2 weeks you are right in asking about it. Some contractors may want a schedule of values which is a whole other headache.Colors and draw downs come after contract is signed.


----------



## SteveG (Nov 25, 2012)

Well I was informed today that I got this job. Now to figure out Insurances etc, 1099 the guys Im hiring or go full legit and have employees. Know nothing about this stuff lol. Kinda freaking out a little, have never done anything this big, no idea how payroll works.. sigh.. at least I have a couple of months to figure it out, he said today hed help out with everything as it comes up, told me to read up on osha stuff, meeting etc.. a lot to learn.


----------



## jennifertemple (Oct 30, 2011)

SteveG said:


> Well I was informed today that I got this job. Now to figure out Insurances etc, 1099 the guys Im hiring or go full legit and have employees. Know nothing about this stuff lol. Kinda freaking out a little, have never done anything this big, no idea how payroll works.. sigh.. at least I have a couple of months to figure it out, he said today hed help out with everything as it comes up, told me to read up on osha stuff, meeting etc.. a lot to learn.


Good Luck with this. If it all works out you could be doing a lot more bigger jobs.


----------

