# Help with spraying Ben Moore's Satin Impervo on cabinets



## qualitythinking (Oct 31, 2013)

I have a project coming up where I will be spraying some kitchen cabinets with oil based Satin Impervo from BM. The prep work will be scuff sanding and deglossing with TSP. I'm using Graco's 4900 HVLP system. The undercoat will be BM's 217 enamel underbody. On top of that I'm applying two coats of the SI. How much should I thin this and with what should I thin it with for the best results? Also, should I thin the underbody? Advice is much appreciated


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

I always thinned SI with naphtha. Just shot some a few weeks ago with my hvlp. Thinned enough to get the drops one second apart when you dip a stir stick and pull if out, once the stream breaks into individual drops I like them to be about one second apart. That's a general rule for viscosity and hvlp A four stage (I think that's what the 4900 is) should be fine. I typically use a #3 setup, which is about .051" I believe. Should spray really nice.

Also I would not use tsp. Zinsser specifically says not to use tsp under their primers. I do like the Jasco no-rinse tsp liquid formula. Krud kutter too. With a final wipe down of naphtha or DNA. 

You will want to thin the primer as well if you are using hvlp. Again to appropriate viscosity.


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## qualitythinking (Oct 31, 2013)

I didn't know that about the TSP being not recommended by paint products. I'll use that bit of info, Thank you! Could you give me a ball park number on how many ounces of naptha you would use to get the 'second apart rule' out of a 128 oz gallon of SI? I'd hate to overpour


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

I use mineral spirits rather than VM&P, after determining that the "hotter" solvent led to some occasional orange peeling. In an HVLP workshop that I took years ago, the instructor suggested using a cooler solvent with HVLP compared to airless because of the more rapid drying due to the heated air from the turbine.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Damon gave you good advice (as did Gough). He has done a lot of work with HVLPs.

I might mention that you could also pick up a viscosity cup to assist you in thinning your product. A viscosity cup (see pic) is a standardized measuring device which you fill to the top with the thinned product (while holding your finger over the bottom drain hole) and then time it to see how long it takes it to stop flowing out in a steady stream. In the case of my sprayer (a four stage with # 4 tip) it should take around 20-25 seconds for the thinned Satin Impervo to flow out. You should be able to get additional information about viscosity recommendations, and advice as to what tip is best to use, from the 4900's owner's manual (usually available online).


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

RH said:


> Damon gave you good advice (as did Gough). He has done a lot of work with HVLPs.
> 
> I might mention that you could also pick up a viscosity cup to assist you in thinning your product. A viscosity cup (see pic) is a standardized measuring device which you fill to the top with the thinned product (while holding your finger over the bottom drain hole) and then time it to see how long it takes it to stop flowing out in a steady stream. In the case of my sprayer (a four stage with # 4 tip) it should take around 20-25 seconds for the thinned Satin Impervo to flow out. You should be able to get additional information about viscosity recommendations, and advice as to what tip is best to use, from the 4900's owner's manual (usually available online).


My quick and dirty version of a viscosity cup was to figure out about how long a paper cone filter takes to drain when it's filled with thinned product. That's been my way to double check my stir stick estimate. Now, I can't even remember how long that took. I think you eventually get a feel for the right viscosity.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Gough said:


> My quick and dirty version of a viscosity cup was to figure out about how long a paper cone filter takes to drain when it's filled with thinned product. That's been my way to double check my stir stick estimate. Now, I can't even remember how long that took. I think you eventually get a feel for the right viscosity.


Yeah, it doesn't take long to develop a feel for when things are adequately thinned. But it was handy for getting a feel for the right level of thinning when I first started using my HVLP.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

RH said:


> Yeah, it doesn't take long to develop a feel for when things are adequately thinned. But it was handy for getting a feel for the right level of thinning when I first started using my HVLP.


Yeah, I even had a cheapie digital stopwatch that I kept with the viscosity cup. I'm sure they're somewhere in the shop:whistling2:


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## qualitythinking (Oct 31, 2013)

This is great advice, I might look into getting a longer hose for the unit, if it can handle it. A friend of mine has 50' from a compressor to the dessicator because of the heated air problem. I dont have an inkling of an idea for the ratio of thinner. is it roughly 1% thinner or 10% or closer to 30%?


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## ducky (Feb 15, 2013)

DO NOT use paint thinner! :whistling2:

I sprayed 18 doors, ya can we say nightmare? Kills the sheen!


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

qualitythinking said:


> This is great advice, I might look into getting a longer hose for the unit, if it can handle it. A friend of mine has 50' from a compressor to the dessicator because of the heated air problem. I dont have an inkling of an idea for the ratio of thinner. is it roughly 1% thinner or 10% or closer to 30%?


I would say typically 5% but it varies. Temperature of your paint will be a big factor. You can reduce the amount of thinner you need to add by warming your paint. However, if you are using a flammable paint be careful how you warm it. You can put your quart cup (if using cup gun) in a pot of hot water. For each X amount of degrees you warm the paint, you reduce the viscosity by Y. 

As for killing the sheen, I believe what it does is bring it to its true sheen quicker. Paint thinner should not affect the ultimate sheen of the coating. If you are trying to touchup paint that was thinned with paint that was not thinned (like touching up thinned spray paint with full strength brushed paint) it will certainly flash. At least until the brushed sheen dies down. 

Excel tells me that the Advance touches up much better than the oil SI, so that would be my choice of products anyways. After having just finished a good size kitchen cabinet job with oil SI, I have vowed not to use it again. Looks nice but pita to work with. 

Actually I have a gallon of SW Kem Aqua Plus white that I am wanting to play around with on sample doors. I think a 30 minute recoat time could be very cool.


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## Brian339 (Mar 15, 2009)

I typically use Penatrol but I have not sprayed SI either. I brush it. I wonder how Naptha would work while brushing. Would Penatrol be a problem with spraying. I always like the way it levels and I believe it enhances the finish.
I would also recommend trying will bond in your prep process. A nice wet wipe down within 20 minutes of application. Again this is typically what I do while brushing.


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## qualitythinking (Oct 31, 2013)

what is will bond?


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## Brian339 (Mar 15, 2009)

qualitythinking said:


> what is will bond?


It is a solvent blend. You can use in place or along with sanding to promote adhesion. Be careful if you use it. It is very combustible. It works well though.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

I like the Gloss-Off by krud kutter. It's a WB liquid sander / cleaner. Probably not as good as a solvent type, but I avoid the solvents as much as possible now. The mineral spirit or lacquer solvents that is. WB paints still have solvents, but not as nasty.


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## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

Damon T said:


> I like the Gloss-Off by krud kutter. It's a WB liquid sander / cleaner. Probably not as good as a solvent type, but I avoid the solvents as much as possible now. The mineral spirit or lacquer solvents that is. WB paints still have solvents, but not as nasty.


Ill second that .


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Brian339 said:


> I typically use Penatrol but I have not sprayed SI either. I brush it. I wonder how Naptha would work while brushing. Would Penatrol be a problem with spraying. I always like the way it levels and I believe it enhances the finish.
> I would also recommend trying will bond in your prep process. A nice wet wipe down within 20 minutes of application. Again this is typically what I do while brushing.


The biggest problem with Penetrol is that it really accelerates the yellowing. There's another outfit in our area that uses it and it's lead to some major issues with customers. From what I understand, the XIM extender doesn't have the same problem.

I'd probably avoid naphtha when brushing. Its big advantage is that it's "hotter", so the paint wouldn't level as well.


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## Brian339 (Mar 15, 2009)

Gough I know your right on all points. I believe way back when did a lot of commercial I remember working with Naptha. I also know you are correct on Penatrol. I use it on Linen white with a clear conscience. When it comes to white I try to avoid it. Now you said the XIM extender. I use it for water based often. 
Your saying they have one for alkyds?


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## Brian339 (Mar 15, 2009)

thinkpainting/nick said:


> Ill second that .


I am going to have to give it a go. I see it down the paint store. I never tried it because we all get set in our ways. But if you guys said its good then for me it's worth a try.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Brian339 said:


> Gough I know your right on all points. I believe way back when did a lot of commercial I remember working with Naptha. I also know you are correct on Penatrol. I use it on Linen white with a clear conscience. When it comes to white I try to avoid it. Now you said the XIM extender. I use it for water based often.
> Your saying they have one for alkyds?


http://ximbonder.com/?xim_products=x-tender


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