# Customer Assumptions



## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

I just got off the phone with a customer talking about how the lichen and moss didn't come off her roof - I bid getting her house washed.

So I explain a house wash is for siding, roof cleaning is a whole different animal.

Do you guys get this - customers assume everything under the sun is included in a certain service?

She seems ok, but still her expectation was getting her roof pressure washed as well - and I never discussed that with her. 

I guess it's time to get even more explicit with my proposals.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

What did you put in your proposal? Wash house? :blink:


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Double post


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

I've only been explicit on some estimates and saying it was a wash for the siding. Other times I just rely on industry standard that a house wash is really washing siding, decks and roofs not included.

I do implicitly state I am not washing the roof - I say I am pressure washing to remove mildew, mold, and dirt. And she was talking about lichens and moss - I didn't state I would remove lichens and moss. Therefore, not going to wash her roof.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

plainpainter said:


> I've only been explicit on some estimates and saying it was a wash for the siding. Other times I just rely on industry standard that a house wash is really washing siding, decks and roofs not included.
> 
> I do implicitly state I am not washing the roof - I say I am pressure washing to remove mildew, mold, and dirt. And she was talking about lichens and moss - I didn't state I would remove lichens and moss. Therefore, not going to wash her roof.


So now all of your customers need to know what you are going to do without telling them.....AND understand the differences between lichen, moss, mildew, etc etc? What happens if you encounter a bees nest? Sorry ma'am, those are hornets, I only spray for bees .....

I think she has a legit beef with ya. She may have hired you because you used clever wordplay in your pitch, but left the contract vague.


Dan I'm not arguing that a roof wash and house wash are the same. They are different, WE know this, WE do this everyday, we're supposed to. The average customer simply doesn't know what's included or not, what a good job is or not, or why Behr sucks.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

I don't see it as the client assumed, I see that you assumed the h.o. understood what was in the scope. imo you owe this lady a roof wash.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

I've found that stating in my proposals and contracts what may not be included in a particular job (ex. closets, trim, ceilings, etc.) is as important as stating what is.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

ewingpainting.net said:


> I don't see it as the client assumed, I see that you assumed the h.o. understood what was in the scope. imo you owe this lady a roof wash.


Every homeowner discusses what they want done. Lady never said anything about the roof. This is why I allow homeowners walk me around their entire home and pointing out all the spots that need extra attention. Even though I don't need to do this because all the siding gets cleaned 100% - it allows me to listen to the customer about what they want done.

Are you going to do a free fence paint because a homeowner thinks it should be included with the house - even though you never dicussed it. 

Your opinion is worthless to me, no homeowner assumes removing lichens and moss from their roof is included in a simple house wash - especially when I didn't mention explicitly that I would remove lichens and moss.

However, it's time once again to include yet more verbiage about what I won't be doing in my estimates.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

NCPaint1 said:


> So now all of your customers need to know what you are going to do without telling them.....AND understand the differences between lichen, moss, mildew, etc etc? What happens if you encounter a bees nest? Sorry ma'am, those are hornets, I only spray for bees .....
> 
> I think she has a legit beef with ya. She may have hired you because you used clever wordplay in your pitch, but left the contract vague.


If my contract says pressure wash house to remove mildew, mold, and dirt - is that vague enough to think I may get up on your roof and remove algae and lichens? 

Some of my contracts say Pressure wash siding to remove mildew, mold, and dirt - which is perhaps what she got, is that still vague?

I don't buy this homeowner nonsense that they don't know what they want - when a homeowner wants their roof cleaned they explicitly in the past have told me this and pointed out the bad areas.

But no biggie - she had a bunch of cedar clapboards and Fir achitectural beams that I ended up Restoring free of charge - and even though I wasn't going to make a stink about this, I made it clear to her that I performed this service free of charge. So she knows she got that service for free - that's how I balanced this out with her. 

Dan I'm not arguing that a roof wash and house wash are the same. They are different, WE know this, WE do this everyday, we're supposed to. The average customer simply doesn't know what's included or not, what a good job is or not, or why Behr sucks


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

plainpainter said:


> Every homeowner discusses what they want done. Lady never said anything about the roof. This is why I allow homeowners walk me around their entire home and pointing out all the spots that need extra attention. Even though I don't need to do this because all the siding gets cleaned 100% - it allows me to listen to the customer about what they want done.
> 
> Are you going to do a free fence paint because a homeowner thinks it should be included with the house - even though you never dicussed it.
> 
> ...


I agree Dan that it's seems like a PITA waste of time to have to spell everything out but I've just learned that some people need it that way in order to eliminate any misconceptions. A little more effort covering all the bases up front may save me a big hassle down the line.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

plainpainter said:


> I guess it's time to get even more explicit with my proposals.


Yes it is. You can't by a "Shamwow" on TV without a page of fine print at the bottom. Ever try to switch your cable plan or cell phone plan? Have to listen to their long winded speeches. Have to cover all your bases. People win legal cases on "technicalities" all the time....I just see this as one too. Cover it in the future and move on.


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## scottjr (Jan 14, 2012)

NCPaint1 said:


> Yes it is. You can't by a "Shamwow" on TV without a page of fine print at the bottom. Ever try to switch your cable plan or cell one plan? Have to listen to their long winded speeches. Have to cover all your bases. People win legal cases on "technicalities" all the time....I just see this as one too. Cover it in the future and move on.


As my dad says, "the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

I have always thought that it was my responsibility to spell out the exact scope of work, we are the professionals which is why they are hiring us. on my estimates the 1st line describes the surfaces to be painted and the exclusions. its our responsibility. I have had to eat my words too


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

yes, defining what is in the job is pretty important, but I hear what you are saying Dan. Did she mention anything about a roof while talking to her? If not then that is bs.. it just as easily been the driveway... or walkway.. or porch.. 

I know what you are saying, they "purchase" a set of things then EXPECT more.. that is why you have to be specific. An exterior project I had this year was an eye opener. I was tasked to renail the trim on a 3 story wood sided chimney. Okay.. no problem, but the rest of the house was just as bad. In fact, I had to watch what I did, and didn't do because really the entire house needed work BAD! DIY fail!!! Anyway.. day after we got done a huge nasty rain came out of no where and they developed a leak.. 

I go back out, and find it wasn't what I did, it was NEXT TO what I did about 6' over.. I caulked it for them, they were happy I came out the day after and did that, it wasn't my deal, but could have been. I gave them the remaining amount of caulking (gave him the rest of the tube) and told em it was on me.. 

It is a tricky deal to "touch it" because generally you touch it you own it.. that is why I have been REALLY thinking about repair work and listing out (5) pcs @ X' long.. that type of deal, REAL spelled out.. DEFINED 100% what is the work we will be doing, and what we will not be doing.

Don't feel weird or bad pointing things out and stating you will NOT be touching it or whatever.. 

I know you are generally pretty good at it dan.. you just have to get into the habit of stating what it is you will cover, and definitely what you will not cover.


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

Just follow the William Page ******* model.. no contract, lowball prices, don't keep track of who pays and who does not. I imagine it is a stress free way to run a business. 

Dan, to repeat the now cliched mantra of of one of my mentors. The longer you are in business, the longer your contract gets. What you experienced with this lady is not anyone's fault per se. Its an expose of a gap in your presentation and contract. Fix it and move forward. Growing pains are good.. means you are working.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Look at the bright side. At least she's not asking you to throw in washing her ceilings and walls! :jester:


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

researchhound said:


> I've found that stating in my proposals and contracts what may not be included in a particular job (ex. closets, trim, ceilings, etc.) is as important as stating what is.


 I do the same....


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

If you were painting her house would she assume you are painting the roof?


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

I went off on my mechanic because he didn't detail the car after the inspection. (or rebuild the motor, trans, rear, nor fix the body work). You'd think it would be included. its all attached to the car, right?


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

plainpainter said:


> Every homeowner discusses what they want done. Lady never said anything about the roof. This is why I allow homeowners walk me around their entire home and pointing out all the spots that need extra attention. Even though I don't need to do this because all the siding gets cleaned 100% - it allows me to listen to the customer about what they want done.
> 
> Are you going to do a free fence paint because a homeowner thinks it should be included with the house - even though you never dicussed it.
> 
> ...


 
apparently at least one does:blink:


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## mpminter (Mar 21, 2011)

My estimates always include in pretty good detail what I will be doing. I tell the customer to read it over carefully because if it isn't on the estimate, it isn't going to happen. I learned this the hard way...


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

What's a lichen? It sounds like something that bites and leaves an itch.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

CApainter said:


> What's a lichen? It sounds like something that bites and leaves an itch.


Sort of a hybrid of a fungus and algae.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

In my few years dealing with people, I have discovered that not all of them speak the same language or understand me all exactly the same.

One may think wallpapering a room means doing the floor, doors, and furniture, while others understand just the walls. So I need to state WALLS, or CEILING, or whatever else.


I also state the size of the bolts NOT just " needs 10 rolls" because some will buy 10 double rolls and others will buy 10 singles.

we need to word our contracts so so that they are universally comprehended and not ASS U ME every client understands or remembers what was said during the estimate..


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## ttd (Sep 30, 2010)

political opinion removed


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

CApainter said:


> What's a lichen? It sounds like something that bites and leaves an itch.


I thought I saw them in a movie once.....sorta like werewolves, only they live underground and can only be killed by hot chicks. ;-)


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## ProBrush (Aug 11, 2008)

I always have an exclusions and clarifications section in my proposals just to make sure that everything is clear and we are on the same page.:thumbsup:

SPECIFIC EXCLUSIONS:
· We understand the following surfaces are to receive no work:
· The roof
· All other surfaces not specifically mentioned above.

CLARIFICATIONS: 
· All surfaces that are not scheduled for work will be protected from our activities. 
· A complete clean up will be strictly observed at the end of each working day as related to our trade. 
· The job is not considered complete until a final walkthrough.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

plainpainter said:


> Every homeowner discusses what they want done. Lady never said anything about the roof. This is why I allow homeowners walk me around their entire home and pointing out all the spots that need extra attention. Even though I don't need to do this because all the siding gets cleaned 100% - it allows me to listen to the customer about what they want done.
> 
> Are you going to do a free fence paint because a homeowner thinks it should be included with the house - even though you never dicussed it.
> 
> ...


 Plain and simple!


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

PressurePros said:


> I went off on my mechanic because he didn't detail the car after the inspection. (or rebuild the motor, trans, rear, nor fix the body work). You'd think it would be included. its all attached to the car, right?


 For what they charge they should!


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

NCPaint1 said:


> I thought I saw them in a movie once.....sorta like werewolves, only they live underground and can only be killed by hot chicks. ;-)


 Wolfgangs!


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## sendit6 (Sep 6, 2008)

One of the interiors we just finished, the guy replaced his outlet covers, and he asked me if they could be painted. Sure I said, they just have to be primed.

So he shows me two of them and I said I'll take them home and spray prime and paint them. (end of day and the crew had the van packed up and I wanted to be on my way)

I said we'll tack on $30 to the total for it.

He looks at me and says "you're going to charge me?"

Here's how I looked back at him-

I said of course, it's additional work, you wouldn't do additional work for free at your job would you? So when we shook on it he looked away in disgust.

When I'm in that part of town tomorrow doing estimates I'll be dropping by to bring the switchplates and collect the check.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

Well, went back and spent 5 minutes blowing some stuff off her roof with the leaf blower and then upsold $1,600 of further work, including the roof - I love me!


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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

CApainter said:


> What's a lichen? It sounds like something that bites and leaves an itch.


I lichen is a werewolf.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

plainpainter said:


> Well, went back and spent 5 minutes blowing some stuff off her roof with the leaf blower and then upsold $1,600 of further work, including the roof - I love me!


 Thats good news :thumbsup:


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

Dan are you still using them generic est forms?? Using the ones similar to the ones I sent you in the mail could of solved this all you do is check the box roof clean no check in box mean no roof clean, very easy and straight forward. Good job on the up sell:thumbsup:


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## GMack (Jan 18, 2008)

plainpainter said:


> Well, went back and spent 5 minutes blowing some stuff off her roof with the leaf blower and then upsold $1,600 of further work, including the roof - I love me!


Attaboy Tambasco! Seems you've made yourself some lemonade  You've got way more of a "can do" attitude than you used to. Love it!


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## scottjr (Jan 14, 2012)

plainpainter said:


> Well, went back and spent 5 minutes blowing some stuff off her roof with the leaf blower and then upsold $1,600 of further work, including the roof - I love me!


Got to love it.


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