# Aluminum gutters.. House Paint or DTM?



## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

I have been putting SW Super Paint Satin on gutters for years, but recently been considering switching to a DTM. Main reason is Surfactant leachin from all the moisture we get here in the NW. No matter what time of day I run the gutters, it seems to be a problem. I dont want to come back washing it off after I paint and feel funny telling the customer "Oh, it will go away after a month or so" I'm curious if I would still have that problem with DTM? Also curious if DTM with still have the same color retention as Super Paint Satin? What are you guys using?


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

I think some of the problem lies with the color being used. I dont think DTM would make much difference on standard residential gutters. Maybe switch to a decent Benny Moore product and eliminate all your paint issues.......im not biased at all...nyuk nyuk nyuk.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Woodland said:


> I have been putting SW Super Paint Satin on gutters for years, but recently been considering switching to a DTM. Main reason is Surfactant leachin from all the moisture we get here in the NW. No matter what time of day I run the gutters, it seems to be a problem. I dont want to come back washing it off after I paint and feel funny telling the customer "Oh, it will go away after a month or so" I'm curious if I would still have that problem with DTM? Also curious if DTM with still have the same color retention as Super Paint Satin? What are you guys using?


Well it should make some diff because it dries fast and harder so I would think it would make a diff. Try Millers DTM it's great stuff and works good.I use it for hand rails all the time


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

NCPaint1 said:


> I think some of the problem lies with the color being used. I dont think DTM would make much difference on standard residential gutters. Maybe switch to a decent Benny Moore product and eliminate all your paint issues.......im not biased at all...nyuk nyuk nyuk.


Aura Satin (off white) did it really bad on a job I did in June. Job I just finished with SW Super Paint Satin (Brown) did it a little, but not as bad.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Have you tried priming it prior to paint. I prime all my gutters paint with 100 acrylic flat paint. Never had any issues.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Aura is actually the only exterior product I have had surfacent leaching with. I think whatever paint cures the quickest as the top coat would be the best solution.


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## Brian (Apr 10, 2007)

We use SuperPaint satin on gutters 99% of the time. The only time we have had an issue with surfactant leaching on gutters we have had it elsewhere as well, so I don't think that the product is the issue. 

Using DTM (which we use a lot on doors and wrought iron) would add a lot to the cost of the job, and I don't see any benefit to the customer. I'm all for upselling and using better products, but there has to be a benefit to the customer.

Brian Phillips


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

You'd be talking about a gallon or 2 at the most. I don't think that would be adding a lot of cost. Like 40 or 60 bucks.


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## VanDamme (Feb 13, 2010)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Have you tried priming it prior to paint. I prime all my gutters paint with 100 acrylic flat paint. Never had any issues.


I can see how 1st coating with a flat would help with coverage on the 2nd coat, but how would it help with surfactant leaching?


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

VanDamme said:


> I can see how 1st coating with a flat would help with coverage on the 2nd coat, but how would it help with surfactant leaching?


I have found that this really doesn't help because you can end up with a flatter sheen than you would if you used two coats of any sheen.


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## One Coat Coverage (Oct 4, 2009)

If they have the original factory coating, I prime with latex pro block, then top coat with superpaint. If another painter has already painted over the factory coating, then I just paint without priming.

No need to get another product, like dtm, in the mix.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

VanDamme said:


> I can see how 1st coating with a flat would help with coverage on the 2nd coat, but how would it help with surfactant leaching?


I was just saying how I paint them and have had no issues surfactant leaching. I was emphasizing more on the primer than the finish. :thumbsup:


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

DTM would be better, I sell the P&L Enducryl:http://www.prattandlambert.com/pdf/product-data-sheets/6610.pdf

Pretty much any industrial enamel would be better than house paint for metal, but how many painters do you know that even take the time to use a different product other than th ehouse paint they already have?


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

I never really had any problems in the past until lately.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

hammerheart14 said:


> DTM would be better, I sell the P&L Enducryl:http://www.prattandlambert.com/pdf/product-data-sheets/6610.pdf
> 
> Pretty much any industrial enamel would be better than house paint for metal, but how many painters do you know that even take the time to use a different product other than th ehouse paint they already have?


True, I did work for a guy a few years back who used Spar Enamel on gutters, but I really dont wanna go there. Gotta admit, they did look damn good though.


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## stlswrep (Aug 4, 2010)

Have you tried Resilience? My customers really seem to love its application characteristics. It has the "Moisture Guard Technology" which should seriously decrease the potential for surfactant leaching. Price wise it would be between SuperPaint and DTM. 
DTM would be shiner, at least a semi. It the store uses Envirotoners the color retention would be better. (they will hate you for it though)
I have a customer who loves BondPlex. Its a very low sheen. Its a bonding primer and paint in one. Dries hard and fast. A tinted black covered a white in one coat. If you decide it needs a primer it could eliminate a trip around the house and be worth the extra cost.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Thanks. Resilience is another option. We get a lot of moisture here in SW Washington.


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

Woodland said:


> I have been putting SW Super Paint Satin on gutters for years,



It seems to be more and more of a problem lately. I don't know if it is because of the formulations or what.

At first Those spots on the gutters drove me crazy. I was always rinsing/rubbing them off.

They don't bother me that much any more.

Unless it's not just the evenly spaced drips, but that weird tiger striped look.

That definitely doesn't fly.

They do eventually go away. Try gently rinsing them off when they are fresh with a garden sprayer. It eliminates a lot of the surfactant, and makes it less noticeable in the mean time.

You could find a couple very easy to read articles from different reputable sources about surfactant. Make sure each article mentions that "all acrylics" are prone to this, and that it eventually goes away.

Just hand them the information before you start the job, and say this is something you should know about acrylic paint. There may be some non-permanent visual issues that occur while the paint is curing.

It depends on your comfort level. For me, I tell HO's that and I am comfortable when I tell them, and they don't worry about it.

Sometimes different approaches work for different people.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Thanks, it does seem like its gotten worse lately. I ran the gutters on an exterior in June with BM Aura Satin (off white) and it was so bad it looked like a reminded me of nicotine stains. Now, I will say other than that I was very pleased with the Aura. Very good stuff. With the SW Super Paint Satin it just hasnt been an issue til lately unless I painted late in the day. Gutters I painted this week were Super Paint (Brown) and I could see spots on the bottom although they werent real bad. I am now considering printing up some info on "surfactant leaching" and give it with my proposals. But, then again... do I want to have them looking harder at the gutters when Im done? If I switch to DTM just for gutters it wouldnt really be a big deal. I am just curious if it will hold up as long as Super Paint or even Duration and still have the same color retention?


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Woodland said:


> With the SW Super Paint Satin it just hasnt been an issue til lately unless I painted late in the day. Gutters I painted this week were Super Paint (Brown) and I could see spots on the bottom although they werent real bad.


Ok, are we talking about a product issue, or is this an application issue? Sounds like condensation streaking. When you paint too late in the day, combined with the high humidity levels that we've all been experiencing this summer, could definitely cause the problems you are seeing. Higher humidity will prolong the cure, and cause dew, which will form on the uncured film, causing streaks. Im not ruling out a product issue, just another scenario that could be going on.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

If its surfactant, you should be able to wipe down with a damp sponge or rag and not have it reappear.


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## 4ThGeneration (Apr 17, 2007)

I know its Paint Talk and all, but why not just goto the problem where it started and remove the streaks through a house wash?


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Mike if your working late in the day and the dew start early this can be more of a problem.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

This reminds me that it's going to start to be more dew on the gutters from now on till winter, and we will not have that many hours in the day to work.


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

Woodland said:


> With the SW Super Paint Satin it just hasnt been an issue til lately



Yes, Superpaint satin usually works pretty well for us.

you could go with an oil, but then there is the concern about moisture underneath. One of the nice things about acrylic is that if there is some moisture, it doesn't react drastically with the top coat the way moisture under oil does.

Handing them the information with the proposal is kind of risky because then your bid will have a negative attached to it, and other bids wont.

Handing it to them after you land the job seems like it might create disappointment.

It sounds like your best bet is to figure out how to make it not look bad, and just not draw their attention to the gutters.

What do you do about the body? We have problems with surfactant on the body of the house that require extra attention when using flats. And sometimes sheen paints.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

I havent ran into any problems on the body in a long time. Just gutters lately. I rarely use anymore Flat these days. Im going to try some DTM on my house and see how it does.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

I started this thread in 2010. 6 years later, still using DTM and having great results. PPG Pitt-Tech. It's a waterbourne enamel and leaves a very nice finish. Doesn't show streaks as bad as regular house paint does after time either.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Woodland said:


> I started this thread in 2010. 6 years later, still using DTM and having great results. PPG Pitt-Tech. It's a waterbourne enamel and leaves a very nice finish. Doesn't show streaks as bad as regular house paint does after time either.


Last week, we went by a commercial job that we last repainted about 15 years ago with Pitt-Tech DTM and it still looked good. Prior to that, we'd been in a MUCH shorter repaint cycle, sometimes as short as a year, depending on the weather. It's galvanized siding, and we used to use the old-school cementitious oil-based primer for galvanized. Then we noticed that unusually cold winters led to premature failure and switched to DTM. No reason to look back.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Woodland said:


> I started this thread in 2010. 6 years later, still using DTM and having great results. PPG Pitt-Tech. It's a waterbourne enamel and leaves a very nice finish. Doesn't show streaks as bad as regular house paint does after time either.


Pitt-Tech is one of my all time favorite products that I have sold in 32 years. Great product. If I could get PPG to label it for independent dealers I'd sell it. But they won't, so I don't.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

PACman said:


> Pitt-Tech is one of my all time favorite products that I have sold in 32 years. Great product. If I could get PPG to label it for independent dealers I'd sell it. But they won't, so I don't.


Our local BM store sells PPG as well, so we're good.:whistling2:


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## ElTacoPaco (Dec 11, 2015)

stlswrep said:


> Have you tried Resilience? My customers really seem to love its application characteristics. It has the "Moisture Guard Technology" which should seriously decrease the potential for surfactant leaching. Price wise it would be between SuperPaint and DTM.
> DTM would be shiner, at least a semi. It the store uses Envirotoners the color retention would be better. (they will hate you for it though)
> I have a customer who loves BondPlex. Its a very low sheen. Its a bonding primer and paint in one. Dries hard and fast. A tinted black covered a white in one coat. If you decide it needs a primer it could eliminate a trip around the house and be worth the extra cost.


What is Envirotoners?


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

PACman said:


> Pitt-Tech is one of my all time favorite products that I have sold in 32 years. Great product. If I could get PPG to label it for independent dealers I'd sell it. But they won't, so I don't.


I get Pitt-Tech at Miller Paint in Vancouver Wa 



ElTacoPaco said:


> What is Envirotoners?


SW Colorant http://www.sherwin-williams.com/painting-contractors/specifications/colorcast-eco-toners/


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## jr.sr. painting (Dec 6, 2013)

Many of our exteriors require gutter painting we always clean inside and run a hose down them to get them clean inside and spray 9 and rinse on outside. Then topcoat with resilience gloss or satin whatever trim is and it has not failed yet. No need to buy extra paint in a color you already have just spend the time to wash them


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

jr.sr. painting said:


> Many of our exteriors require gutter painting we always clean inside and run a hose down them to get them clean inside and spray 9 and rinse on outside. Then topcoat with resilience gloss or satin whatever trim is and it has not failed yet. No need to buy extra paint in a color you already have just spend the time to wash them


Thank you. That's awesome, but I believe I will stick with what works for me though :thumbsup:


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

My latest blog post Painting gutters in Vancouver Wa


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## VisionFinishes (Apr 30, 2016)

DTM for metal cutters. I wouldn't do house paint at all.


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