# About zinssor Bull eye 1-2-3



## ArcherThePainter (Jul 23, 2011)

Lot of painter recommanded me about bull eye 123.

I tried, but feel a little bit disappointed.

1, take looooooooong time to dry, especially in moisture condition where cover stain work very well.

2, too thick, I have to thin it with water every time.

3, dry with satin surface, sanding capable is bad.

Actually, I think cover stain can do better work than bull eye 1-2-3 in most situation. 

what do you think?????


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

Its an inexpensive, (around 18$) general purpose (but not very good at any one thing) primer. There are a lot of other acrylic primers that are far better.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

kdpaint said:


> Its an inexpensive, (around 18$) general purpose (but not very good at any one thing) primer. There are a lot of other acrylic primers that are far better.


Have to agree, its a fair GP primer. But seeings that the OP is in Australia, his version might be different than ours.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

As of late, it seems to be of a lower viscosity than before.

I like a slower drying primer, gives me more confidence that it is soaking into the surface for a good mechanical bond.

I use it mostly as a primer/sealer before wallpaper, it's something that is easily attainable by the many people who want to know what to put on raw rock or mud prior to me hanging. 

I do not think I would use in on wood.


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## mpminter (Mar 21, 2011)

I like it as a multi-surface primer. I had a job not long ago where there had been a lot of drywall work done in the house, so we primed the whole thing with 123 prior to paint. It gave us a really consistent finish between the new rock and the previously painted stuff (some of which was semi-gloss), and it also hid some really atrocious paint colors for us. We top coated with PM200 and the job came out really nice. In addition to it's hide and sealing properties it seems to have pretty good adhesion. Although I would agree that there are other products that do each of those things better, if you need an all in one primer at a good price it seems to be a real winner.


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## caulktheline (Feb 10, 2011)

That's the stock primer for this apt complex I'm working in. I put three coats of it in a plum purple (Behr) room so I could go back over it with a pastel green, and the old water stains and some of the colorant was still coming through in some places.


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

I think it is one of the better ones for adhesion, and use it as a conversion coat from oil to H2o . The sheen gives it great enamel hold out, but yes, it doesn't sand. But often doesn't need it. 
I always "loosen" it up a bit with water. never a problem. 

( And Bill- I am somewhat surprised you use it underneath paper. I have been told ( and experienced) that it is such a hard surface that sometimes the paste doesn't get a good grip...)


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

BrushJockey said:


> ( And Bill- I am somewhat surprised you use it underneath paper. I have been told ( and experienced) that it is such a hard surface that sometimes the paste doesn't get a good grip...)


Others have complained that it is "too slick" to hang on. I've only hung directly on it once, and as far as I know the paper did not fall off.

But I always apply a coat of Swing Wallpaper Prep Coat before hanging. It has what I think is silica in it that gives just the right amount of tooth. I use the Swing also over Gardz which is even "slicker" and "harder" than 1-2-3.

And I do tell the HO that the 1-2-3 must be dried for 36 hours before I hang.


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

I know- hijacking...

Bill- I have never seen that product around here. And googling comes up with you yacking about it on every forum -lol
I have used 123 and hung fairly fast on it. and of course it rewetted.
So on mainly PWG's recommendation ( and others backing him up) have switched to Gardz- then straight to hang. Hate the idea of a 2 coat prep. 
Sooo Gardz is kind of sticky when dry- you don't feel it gives enough tooth?
dang. 
I need something that I can prep and hang right away on, and Gardz seemed to be the answer. But hanging is just starting to rev back up in my world.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Sheeet and you are even close to Canada where swing is made (Montreal). they do NOT have the best distribution network.

If you have search and seen me "yacking" about Swing, then I suppose you have seen others also. Some people find it's worth the effort to order it through Jamestown distributors.

http://www.jamestowndistributors.co...=Circa+1850+Wallpaper+Prep-Coat+Primer+Sealer

I do not use gardz on sealed surfaces for many reasons, the slickness being one of them. Another consideration is the dry time. I use Gardz to SEAL patches or raw plaster and to penetrate and seal cheap builders flat. I go through maybe a gallon a year.

Being ONLY a paperhanger, I need something I can hang on ASAP. I don't have other tasks to do while a primer is drying.

I get to a job site, blade the walls smooth, apply the Swing, put a fan on it if necessary, and then set up my equipment. By the time I've set up, engineered the layout, and pasted my first bolt, the Prep Coat is dry. I usually allow at least an hour.

Swing adheres to most any surface. There are many of us who swear by it. We have even gotten a few off the Zinsser Shieldz teat, although one of buddies does mix Gardz and Shieldz together, calling Shardz. I wouldn't dare do that. But he also mixes 1-2-3 with Gardz


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Zinssers Bull eyed!Easy as 123.Great go to universal primer!


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

Hmm. 
Gardz is a really quick dry ( hour or less) and I use it for many things, paper prep being one. 
I do have a bigger strip/ rehang coming up- is this ok to use right away over a strip, or do you thing Gardz would also be needed ( plaster walls, i don't know yet what is under paper)


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

BrushJockey said:


> I know- hijacking...
> 
> Bill- I have never seen that product around here. And googling comes up with you yacking about it on every forum -lol
> I have used 123 and hung fairly fast on it. and of course it rewetted.
> ...


 
What little hanging I have done in the last 3 years or so has been over straight Gardz.Now Bill hangs high end materials and I do not but I have never had or heard of any problems


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

Bill- can you move just this hijack part to the wallcovering dept? I want to keep on with this, but Z123 deserves its own thread-


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

I've used 123 a lot to prime for wallpaper installation over the years, and also as a multi-purpose primer/sealer. I just picked up a few gallons last week and noticed that the label had changed and omitted the word "sealer". It just said 123 Primer. It made me wonder if the formula had been changed........


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## ArcherThePainter (Jul 23, 2011)

BrushJockey said:


> I think it is one of the better ones for adhesion, and use it as a conversion coat from oil to H2o . The sheen gives it great enamel hold out, but yes, it doesn't sand. But often doesn't need it.
> I always "loosen" it up a bit with water. never a problem.
> 
> ( And Bill- I am somewhat surprised you use it underneath paper. I have been told ( and experienced) that it is such a hard surface that sometimes the paste doesn't get a good grip...)



Agree... it's like change oil to H2O, seal is good, leave a shadow like oil paint.

but feel like top coat, not undercoat.


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## the paintman (Feb 3, 2012)

i have been using bulleyes primer (not 123) on my wallpaper strip and paint job with no problems so far. $12/gal at Blowes when they have it.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

BrushJockey said:


> Bill- can you move just this hijack part to the wallcovering dept? I want to keep on with this, but Z123 deserves its own thread-


I tried to to separate and move, but too many posts are hybrids and I ain't a good surgeon. We'll have to make do.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

BrushJockey said:


> Hmm.
> Gardz is a really quick dry ( hour or less) and I use it for many things, paper prep being one.
> I do have a bigger strip/ rehang coming up- is this ok to use right away over a strip, or do you thing Gardz would also be needed ( plaster walls, i don't know yet what is under paper)


Strip and no prep?

I have never done it. Can't advise. My process is strip, wash all residue, apply swing if the surface is well sealed, and hang.

if it is raw plaster, I would _prefer_ to strip, wash, gardz, swing, and hang. But that's just my process.


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

I just didn't list clean the paste- always.

I went and ordered a couple of the Swings just to see what you were talking about- after haz handling (?) and shipping 2 g came to $63. 

Back to Gardz- PWG seems to do fine going straight to it- wish he'd pop in and see what he has to say. So far I haven't had a problem more than needing to stick the seams with a brushful a bit more on some papers. 
But would hate to see problems down the road.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

BrushJockey said:


> I just didn't list clean the paste- always.
> 
> I went and ordered a couple of the Swings just to see what you were talking about- after haz handling (?) and shipping 2 g came to $63.
> 
> ...


 

Whats this? Now you don't trust MY opinion?:icon_cry:


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

Chris , you said you used Gardz successfully- a few times. 
Kind of like me. Those two hang much more than we have.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Rob,

MANY MANY folks hang on Gardz with no problem. I just have a preference. 

As I have over stated too many times, ask four paperhangers one question and you'll get five different answers. 

and they are all correct.

when you get the swing, you may be dissapointed with the sludge on the bottom. That's the silica - the stuff that gives it the tooth. I'm still looking for a small plastic squirrel cage mixer, can't find one. Anyway, mix it up REALLY well. Shaking in a shaker doesn't seem to do that much good. After you have it stirred up, it will settle. I store the cans upside down. 

It's the only annoyance about the product.

Good luck, I hope you like it as well as many of us. BTW, some people do not understand all the hoopla - personal preference.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

BrushJockey said:


> Chris , you said you used Gardz successfully- a few times.
> Kind of like me. Those two hang much more than we have.


 
Cant argue that:no:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

BrushJockey said:


> Chris , you said you used Gardz successfully- a few times.
> Kind of like me. Those two hang much more than we have.


yah, but we're a hack and a fraud :thumbup:


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## alan (Feb 17, 2010)

the 123 seems to block cedar bleeds well if you wait 24 hrs. before you top coat


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

daArch said:


> yah, but we're a hack and a fraud :thumbup:


what do you think I am?, I will not dpeak for brush, I think he is actually legit:whistling2:


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

HEY! Don't go 'cusin me of stuff! 
I didn't do it! Really!


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

BrushJockey said:


> HEY! Don't go 'cusin me of stuff!
> I didn't do it! Really!


 
really?:whistling2: just forget the government part,I forgot that was there

probably get banned


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

I trust the Big Z. You all know that :whistling2:


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

I hang over Gardz all day long. If I'm hanging something expensive or delicate, I prime with Gardz, then line the walls.


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

PWG- Thats a bit reassuring- To my knowledge, nothing I've put up has fallen off. 
Got my 2 gals of Swing today- just bid on a fairly good size one that I'll give it a try on.


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

New guy here...can someone catch me up on Swing? I did a google search but could only find out how to hire a band or paint a swingset....


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

read earlier in the thread


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

swing paints is a manufacturer in Montreal. They have been making a wallpaper prep coat: http://www.swingpaints.com/3107us_can.htm for many years. It may be one of the original 100% acrylic wallpaper preps out there. I used in many many years ago, but then couldn't find it. A few years ago a paperhanger friend from annapolis said she had been using it still. 

I found some locally. It's tough to find. But you can order a pallet (48 gallons I think) from the east coast distributor in Grafton NH.

But enough of that.

It is a clear acrylic with what some of us think is diatamaceous earth (silica) in it. This fine powder gives a very nice bit of tooth, and the acrylic resins will bond to many types of surfaces.

It dries fast - one can usually hang on it in about an 1 to 1.5 hours. And any unwanted drips will loosen with water up to a few days after application.

I have stripped one job I have previously hung on it, and it strips real nice with no peeling sunburn skin syndrome that many have found with some other prep coats like R-35 and Calif acrylic Prep 'n' Size.

I've become a born again Swing fan.


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

so... you swing both ways? :whistling2:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

BrushJockey said:


> so... you swing both ways? :whistling2:


Yup, but only two ways, brush and roller, no spray


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

daArch said:


> Yup, but only two ways, brush and roller, no spray


 
I don't own a sprayer but can you imagine what that gunk buildup at the bottom of the can would do to it?


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