# Rrp spam



## vermontpainter

I'd like to thank all of the spammers who daily email me all of the rrp forms and documentation I need to keep my business safe. I especially like the "don't let this happen to you..." cautionary tales about companies who were supposedly hit full force with the $37k fines. Alot of this marketing is scare tactics. All it does for me is make me feel sorry for the legal contractors who rely on pre 78 work as a substantial percentage of their business. Thanks epa.


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## vermontpainter

Retroactive enforcement through documentation is the EPA's new means for RRP enforcement.
:yes:


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## vermontpainter

The EPA says that they will use your records to evaluate your company’s compliance with the RRP law.
(See Article) You are required to keep records for each job and to maintain the records for 3 – 10 years depending on the state. The fines for failure to create and maintain records are approx. $20,000 per project (LBP Consolidated ERPP). In addition, if one of you projects, for any reason, should be a part of a lawsuit pertaining to lead, you may be required by law to produce records for that project.


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## vermontpainter

EPA Announces New RRP Enforcement Action
****** World of St. Louis, Inc. has agreed to pay $39,577 in fines & replacement penalties. A $19,529 EPA fine, plus $20,048 to cover the cost of replacing the old windows with lead. If ****** World had used a lead records management system this would have never happened. (See Article)


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## vermontpainter

Important EPA update, Take a moment to read below...

Below is one of the recent fines from the EPA that has been passed our way. Some have asked, "is the EPA fining violators."* The answer is YES!* Stay in compliance 100% of the time.

MARCH 23, 2011, A Milford, Conn. company has agreed to pay $30,702 to settle claims by EPA that it failed to provide lead hazard information to home owners or occupants before doing renovations that may have disturbed surfaces coated with lead-based paint.* The federal lead law applies to all pre-1978 housing since, without testing, homes built before 1978 are presumed to contain lead-based paint. The settlement stems from a March 2009 EPA inspection and documentation Permanent Siding provided to the EPA.


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## vermontpainter

*OSHA enforcing rrp too!*

Vermont Sub & General Contractors,

Last week an email was sent reminding you to get an OSHA safety manual by March 31.* This was based on feedback we have received from other contractors.* If you do not have one, get it today!

As other contractors have shared with us, the EPA is out and enforcing the new RRP rule.* While that may not come as a surprise, we have also been told that OSHA, code enforcement, and building inspectors are relying information to one another.* So what does that mean?* More eyes observing your projects and looking for possible violations.

It is very important that you have onsite a OSHA safety manual.


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## vermontpainter

EPA: Required RRP Lead Paint Forms
Your firm is now RRP certified. Order your EPA required pre-1978 construction project forms this week and save $50!

Order Your Required Forms Kit Today
New items (shown below) have been added to the Deluxe renovator kit.* This kit provides everything you need to get started on your next pre 1978 home.* Order the Standard or Deluxe kit for EPA compliance.



*Items shown above are only a small sample of the contents included in the kit. *
View Full Kit and Details

UPDATE: VT Enforcement Has Started

The EPA has started enforcing the new RRP requirement and as mentioned during the class, they are visiting sites and reviewing your documentation.

DO NOT LET POOR DOCUMENTATION CREATE A FINE.

Order the EPA required RRP lead paint forms today.


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## vermontpainter

*Attn Homeowners!!!*

Your home is about to rot. Your neighbors are complaining and according to our appraisal of your home, it's value has steadily declined by 15% annually over the past five years. Each year that you choose not to hire vp to correct your homes issues, the cost of said improvements is increasing by 25% annually. Failure to comply with our assessment and property restoration program for your home will result in further decreased value and exponentially increased repair costs. Your home is killing you. And it's not because of lead.
:jester:


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## Burt White

Dannnnng thats a rant Scott.:thumbup:


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## DeanV

If you will recall, soon after the law went into effect I posted here to look out: here come the spammers. My inbox apparently looks the same as yours. To me, the message I am hearing is: Do not bother with pre-78 homes, at least exteriors for certain it is not work the risk and hassle.

The message is getting through loud and clear. Thanks EPA!


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## y.painting

I think it's extremely unprofessional for the EPA to put up on the web the entire email database in one spot of all of the companies that have registered for rrp certification. I really regret for not using my junk email account for this.

Same torrent of threatening rrp emails here as well.


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## RCP

vermontpainter said:


> EPA Announces New RRP Enforcement Action
> ****** World of St. Louis, Inc. has agreed to pay $39,577 in fines & replacement penalties. A $19,529 EPA fine, plus $20,048 to cover the cost of replacing the old windows with lead. If ****** World had used a lead records management system this would have never happened. (See Article)


Here is the link to the article.

This, like many of the other fines making the news, are pre RRP. They did not hand out the Renovate Right Brochure, which has been required since 1992.

I agree that more violations will be caught regarding paperwork than jobsite practices. Rumor has it that he EPA just cut travel expenses and most job visits will be within a short drive of your local office.


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## eews

So, does anyone know just how the EPA will check your compliance after the project is done? Do they just ask you to give them the relevant documents? What if you perform RRP and non-RRP projects? Do they ask to see all your contracts? Do they cross check your bank accounts? Will they contact clients?


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## premierpainter

Its CRAP, all CRAP. 
I wish I could really say what I mean, but the EPA is gonna read this and probably send me a fine!


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## vermontpainter

Here's today:

Important EPA fine update...

Below is another of the recent fines from the EPA that has been passed our way. Some have asked, "is the EPA fining violators."* The answer is YES!* Stay in compliance 100% of the time.

APRIL 4, 2011, [Name removed]. has agreed to pay a $19,529 civil penalty to the United States to settle allegations that it failed to notify owners and occupants of at least 20 St. Louis-area residential properties built before 1978 of lead-based paint risks prior to performing renovation work at those locations. Read More

Had the company used the forms and items we've promoted, they could have avoided a 40k fine.* For details on the compliance kit,* www.EPAStore.com

Again, if you do not have these in place, order them ASAP.* If you have them - use them!* Do not make the same mistake.


-Stay Safe


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## vermontpainter

vermontpainter said:


> Here's today:
> 
> Important EPA fine update...
> 
> Below is another of the recent fines from the EPA that has been passed our way. Some have asked, "is the EPA fining violators."* The answer is YES!* Stay in compliance 100% of the time.
> 
> APRIL 4, 2011, [Name removed]. has agreed to pay a $19,529 civil penalty to the United States to settle allegations that it failed to notify owners and occupants of at least 20 St. Louis-area residential properties built before 1978 of lead-based paint risks prior to performing renovation work at those locations. Read More
> 
> Had the company used the forms and items we've promoted, they could have avoided a 40k fine.* For details on the compliance kit,* www.EPAStore.com
> 
> Again, if you do not have these in place, order them ASAP.* If you have them - use them!* Do not make the same mistake.
> 
> 
> -Stay Safe


This is actually the same incident as I quoted in post 4, just sent to me by a different vendor.

When a company calls itself epastore dot com, does it imply to you that it's affiliated with the EPA?


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## Workaholic

I have been getting spam from them as well.


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## CliffK

Workaholic said:


> I have been getting spam from them as well.


 Here too.


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## vermontpainter

Everything these vendors are peddling is available at sw for less in some cases.

Sure is an example of annoying email marketing. I could unsubscribe to all of these but it's interesting to see how they are marketing this stuff to rrp certified firms.


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## CliffK

vermontpainter said:


> Everything these vendors are peddling is available at sw for less in some cases.
> 
> Sure is an example of annoying email marketing. I could unsubscribe to all of these but it's interesting to see how they are marketing this stuff to rrp certified firms.


True Scott-marketing, marketing,marketing-how many of "us" have actually bought stuff from one of these companies-not that it is necessarily a bad thing,-be honest- can we see a show of hands, just curious how well their strategy is working?? Here is a strategy where they are marketing directly to an audience that _needs_ the stuff that they have-is it working? Inquiring minds would like to know.


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## vermontpainter

CliffK said:


> True Scott-marketing, marketing,marketing-how many of "us" have actually bought stuff from one of these companies-not that it is necessarily a bad thing,-be honest- can we see a show of hands, just curious how well their strategy is working?? Here is a strategy where they are marketing directly to an audience that _needs_ the stuff that they have-is it working? Inquiring minds would like to know.


I'm not embarrassed to say I haven't. I wouldn't, because I don't approve of scare tactic marketing. Sw doesn't do that in their retail displays.


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## CliffK

vermontpainter said:


> I'm not embarrassed to say I haven't. I wouldn't, because I don't approve of scare tactic marketing. Sw doesn't do that in their retail displays.


 Very true and I agree. Not all of the e-mails I get though, are done with scare tactics. Just curious with the onslaught of companies trying to sell us this stuff, if anyone is buying or even really taking a second look at what they are offering. These companies are marketing to the "right" audience-maybe not the right approach, just wonder if it's working at all for them.
Do you believe the local chain where I buy primarily doesn't have any RRP supplies at all-not even an approved lead test!


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## NEPS.US

Workaholic said:


> I have been getting spam from them as well.


 
Not me. :thumbsup:


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## Workaholic

NEPS.US said:


> Not me. :thumbsup:


You always got the best of everything.


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## aaron61

They have been killin me with this crap!! All you need to do is copy the forms from the EPA and use those.That's all they're asking for.Of course I'm doing a little more that I came up with myself.
I was asked to review some "Packet" for PDCA that I thought was over priced and way to cumbersome.They elected to endorse it anyway. I'm really disappointed in the way the PDCA has been reactionary to this huge problem instead of pro active.
When this all started half of those I spoke to in the PDCA had no idea what I was talkin about!!
I'm hoping that the next round of budget cuts will take a chunk from the EPA making this whole thing more than they can deal with.
I will probably start balking on some of these myself


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## ewingpainting.net

vermontpainter said:


> I'd like to thank all of the spammers who daily email me all of the rrp forms and documentation I need to keep my business safe. I especially like the "don't let this happen to you..." cautionary tales about companies who were supposedly hit full force with the $37k fines. Alot of this marketing is scare tactics. All it does for me is make me feel sorry for the legal contractors who rely on pre 78 work as a substantial percentage of their business. Thanks epa.


Welcome to the world of internet marketing Scott. The "I feel stupid and contagious" is working! :yes:


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## CliffK

A local university where I originally took the certification class last year offered a free seminar with an EPA representative this past Friday. She spoke for about an hour and a half and took questions trying to clarify some of the confusion. I could sense frustration on her part as well. She was quick to point out that the EPA wanted the OPT OUT provision, but were sued by special interests and lost. She talked about a scenario where she sees a construction project with a building permit posted. She knocks on the HO's door and asks if she can come in and inspect to make sure proper RRP protocol is being followed by the contractor and the HO denies access. She has NO authority to enter the home. I think the EPA is seriously interested in protecting children and workers and creating awareness, but I also think given budget constraints they are as frustrated at the thought enforcement as contractors are with implementation.
I told her if they want it to work they need to make homeowners aware and get the homeowners to demand that contractors follow proper work practices. Most homeowners look at me like I am trying to sell them something they don't want. She responded by saying they have put adds in trade magazines trying to create awareness.:blink:


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## vermontpainter

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## y.painting

Dear Scott, 

I understand how important it is for you to reach that magical 10K post count. But, I have enough of this in my inbox...last thing I need is to open up PT and see more of it here


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## vermontpainter

y.painting said:


> Dear Scott,
> 
> I have enough of that in my inbox...last thing I need is to open up PT and see more of it here


It's like roadkill, or ace crack, or a mullet, or the dog poo on the bottom of your shoe...you don't want to look, but you have to!


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## RCP

y.painting said:


> Dear Scott,
> 
> I understand how important it is for you to reach that magical 10K post count. But, I have enough of this in my inbox...last thing I need is to open up PT and see more of it here


LOl, I agree, it must really be getting under Scooter's skin, or else he has some secret agenda!


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## RCP

CliffK said:


> A local university where I originally took the certification class last year offered a free seminar with an EPA representative this past Friday. She spoke for about an hour and a half and took questions trying to clarify some of the confusion. I could sense frustration on her part as well. She was quick to point out that the EPA wanted the OPT OUT provision, but were sued by special interests and lost. She talked about a scenario where she sees a construction project with a building permit posted. She knocks on the HO's door and asks if she can come in and inspect to make sure proper RRP protocol is being followed by the contractor and the HO denies access. She has NO authority to enter the home. I think the EPA is seriously interested in protecting children and workers and creating awareness, but I also think given budget constraints they are as frustrated at the thought enforcement as contractors are with implementation.
> I told her if they want it to work they need to make homeowners aware and get the homeowners to demand that contractors follow proper work practices. Most homeowners look at me like I am trying to sell them something they don't want. She responded by saying they have put adds in trade magazines trying to create awareness.:blink:


I saw something about this on a listserv a while ago, EPA does have the authority, I can't find the comment now, but the rule states,



> (a) Failure or refusal to comply with any provision of this subpart is a violation of TSCA section 409 (15 U.S.C. 2689).
> 
> (b) Failure or refusal to establish and maintain records or to make available or permit access to or copying of records, as required by this subpart, is a violation of TSCA sections 15 and 409 (15 U.S.C. 2614 and 2689).
> 
> (c) Failure or refusal to permit entry or inspection as required by 40 CFR 745.87 and TSCA section 11 (15 U.S.C. 2610) is a violation of sections 15 and 409 (15 U.S.C. 2614 and 2689).
> 
> (d) Violators may be subject to civil and criminal sanctions pursuant to TSCA section 16 (15 U.S.C. 2615) for each violation.
> 
> (e) Lead-based paint is assumed to be present at renovations covered by this subpart. EPA may conduct inspections and issue subpoenas pursuant to the provisions of TSCA section 11 (15 U.S.C. 2610) to ensure compliance with this subpart.
> 
> [63 FR 29919, June 1, 1998, as amended at 73 FR 21763, Apr. 22, 2008]


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## CliffK

That's very interesting Chris. It just shows you of the confusion. That was a story that she(the EPA rep) initiated to prove her point about some of the difficulties involved for the EPA. Maybe the contractor can't refuse entry, but the homeowner can? I don't know-thanks for the follow up.


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## vermontpainter

*There is a God*

Important EPA fine update...

Below is another of the recent fines from the EPA that has been passed our way. Some have asked, "is the EPA fining violators."* The answer is YES!* Stay in compliance 100% of the time.

(Seattle – April 6, 2011) College Works Painting, a company operating in Oregon, has agreed to pay $32,508 penalty for alleged violations of the federal pre-renovation rule. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency alleged that the Irvine, California based company violated the federal pre-renovation rule while renovating nine properties in Portland, McMinnville, and Hillsboro, Oregon.

The federal Pre-Renovation Education Rule requires painters, contractors, carpenters, property-management companies and others involved in remodeling or renovation of pre-1978 housing to provide home owners and occupants with an EPA Renovate Right lead hazard information pamphlet.

Had the company used the forms and items we've promoted, they could have avoided a 32k fine.* 

Again, if you do not have these in place, order them ASAP.* If you have them - use them!* Do not make the same mistake.


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## ewingpainting.net

Just in case you messed this one Scott 



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## MAK-Deco

vermontpainter said:


> I'd like to thank all of the spammers who daily email me all of the rrp forms and documentation I need to keep my business safe. I especially like the "don't let this happen to you..." cautionary tales about companies who were supposedly hit full force with the $37k fines. Alot of this marketing is scare tactics. All it does for me is make me feel sorry for the legal contractors who rely on pre 78 work as a substantial percentage of their business. Thanks epa.


Would you expect anything different from a gov't run organization?


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## vermontpainter

MAK-Deco said:


> Would you expect anything different from a gov't run organization?


That accounts for the confusion which gives these marketers their angle. I've just been turned off by the way these marketers are pounding the certified firms, sometimes in ways that make it appear that they are EPA sanctioned suppliers (they have all the info that is on record with EPA, right down to our cert #'s and expirations, addresses, phone numbers...).


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## MAK-Deco

vermontpainter said:


> That accounts for the confusion which gives these marketers their angle. I've just been turned off by the way these marketers are pounding the certified firms, sometimes in ways that make it appear that they are EPA sanctioned suppliers (they have all the info that is on record with EPA, right down to our cert #'s and expirations, addresses, phone numbers...).


So I would assume that the EPA sold that info to them?


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## vermontpainter

MAK-Deco said:


> So I would assume that the EPA sold that info to them?


They made it all public. Vendors can access it and market to cf's anyway they want to, which seems to be mostly email campaigns with alot of tactics using the absurd epa fines as the fundamental selling point.


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## CliffK

vermontpainter said:


> That accounts for the confusion which gives these marketers their angle. I've just been turned off by the way these marketers are pounding the certified firms, sometimes in ways that make it appear that they are EPA sanctioned suppliers (they have all the info that is on record with EPA, right down to our cert #'s and expirations, addresses, phone numbers...).


 Same here! It's a fiasco.


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## vermontpainter

Another company is feeling the pinch from EPA fines:

A residential property management company based in South Portland, Maine has agreed to pay a penalty of $3,542 and will perform a lead abatement project valued at $31,884 to settle EPA claims that it violated federal lead-based paint disclosure requirements at buildings in Freeport and Portland. These violations potentially put tenants at risk of exposure to lead hazards. Preservation Management, Inc. provides residential property management services at approximately 70 properties, totaling about 7,000 housing units, in 13 states. The company manages almost 700 pre-1978 housing units in the New England states of Connecticut, Maine and New Hampshire. According to allegations in a recent agreement, Preservation Management violated the federal Lead Disclosure Rule when it failed to disclose information about lead paint to eight tenants when leasing units at its Lafayette Square apartment building in Portland, and its Maplewood Terrace complex in Freeport. Specifically, Preservation Management failed to provide records or reports regarding lead hazards and to make sure that the lease included a statement disclosing the known or unknown presence of lead-based paint.


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## Connecticut Painters

> Originally Posted by CliffK
> True Scott-marketing, marketing,marketing-how many of "us" have actually bought stuff from one of these companies-not that it is necessarily a bad thing,-be honest- can we see a show of hands, just curious how well their strategy is working?? Here is a strategy where they are marketing directly to an audience that needs the stuff that they have-is it working? Inquiring minds would like to know.





vermontpainter said:


> I'm not embarrassed to say I haven't. I wouldn't, because I don't approve of scare tactic marketing. Sw doesn't do that in their retail displays.


Neither have I, and even if I use one of these systems it will be one that I research on my own when I look for one. the reason is they lost my trust. 
My philosophy when it comes to marketing is simple, be out there when I look for you. 
Another type of marketer I will never buy from is the one that pesters me with calls. Most of the time they're scams anyway.


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## bikerboy

I was all about compliance. Now we don't even do pre "78" homes anymore. The EPA has scared me away with the hassle. 

It's one of my phone pre-qualify questions.


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## ProWallGuy

Whil I didn't read the whole thread, why did this get put in the trash?


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## Workaholic

ProWallGuy said:


> Whil I didn't read the whole thread, why did this get put in the trash?


Unless somebody just moved it it is not.


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## ProWallGuy

Lol I just noticed the thread title of spam. 
Nevamind....


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