# Frog tape pulling existing paint.



## Epoxy Pro

We applied Idea Paint to 3 walls yesterday. It calls for the tape to be removed while the product is still wet. We used 2 1/2" green frog tape. removing the tape it pulled the existing wall paint right off. If I wasn't careful it would have ripped the Idea Paint off with it. I'm on my way there to fix the wall now but am worried the failing paint will cause problems down the line. Fortunately it's failing on a top edge so chances of that part being written on are slim but I'm still worried.

I will snap a pic before I do the repair and post it here.

Since the Idea Paint was still wet wiping with a damp rag to soften the frog tape was out. I did an experiment with Idea Paint and let it dry fully before removing the tape and it pulled the Idea Paint off in some spots so it has to be done while wet.


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## Oden

Guys who have been around even don't realize. When u pull tape. Get ur pull going at 180 degrees asap. All the difference in the world.


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## Epoxy Pro

Oden said:


> Guys who have been around even don't realize. When u pull tape. Get ur pull going at 180 degrees asap. All the difference in the world.


This was just a previous bad paint job. No primers used. It didn't matter how you pulled the tape the paint was coming off with it. Figures, if I knew this would happen i would have sanded the walls to remove the failing paint. Looking at it there was no signs it would do this, the paint looked fresh and tight.

This was way to close for comfort. We have done a few of these and this is the first time running into this.


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## PremierPaintingMa

Before taping place the tape on your shirts couple of time than tape that will take some of the adhesive out. Or use the delicate tape.


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## Bender

PremierPaintingMa said:


> Before taping place the tape on your shirts couple of time than tape that will take some of the adhesive out. Or use the delicate tape.


My guys would choke themselves out


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## Bender

cdpainting said:


> This was just a previous bad paint job. No primers used. It didn't matter how you pulled the tape the paint was coming off with it. Figures, if I knew this would happen i would have sanded the walls to remove the failing paint. Looking at it there was no signs it would do this, the paint looked fresh and tight.
> 
> This was way to close for comfort. We have done a few of these and this is the first time running into this.


Thats the oddest place for a transition?


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## Epoxy Pro

This is the whole wall of pic posted above.

This application of Idea Paint was the hardest for us to do. The building is over 200 yrs old and not one straight wall, ceiling or floor to go by. Laying it out took me a while, we don't have a laser lever yet but after this we are buying one.


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## Oden

I would've used this for that application. Easey mask. Way better for a handful of reasons. IMO anyway. For one its rigid, a straight line is easier. Faster. The glue isn't very grabby at all. Grabby enuff but not too.


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## Epoxy Pro

Oden said:


> View attachment 36033
> 
> 
> I would've used this for that application. Easey mask. Way better for a handful of reasons. IMO anyway. For one its rigid, a straight line is easier. Faster. The glue isn't very grabby at all. Grabby enuff but not too.


I never heard of it. I just looked it up. I may order a roll this weekend.


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## Painter-Aaron

I would or I should say always use the yellow frog tape for lines. It's meant for areas that have been painted 24 hrs earlier


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## Epoxy Pro

These walls were already painted at some point by some one else. If we painted the walls this wouldn't be happening. This is the 3rd place in our last 3 jobs we have put Idea Paint on. 2 of those we did paint the walls and it was fine after removing the tape.


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## slinger58

Obviously not an issue of tape or how the tape was pulled. The existing coating is not bonded. From the pic it looks like you could peel the rest of it off with your fingernail.


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## PRC

The green frog tape has more adhesive, imo, than blue. I'm surprised they recommended it. The easy mask Oden posted is my favorite straight lines.


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## journeymanPainter

Maybe the mods can link the primer thread to this one as a reason why proper primers are required!


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## Bender

Was it frog tape or just green tape? I see a lot of guys running around with lacquer tape and calling it frog tape.


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## Epoxy Pro

Bender said:


> Was it frog tape or just green tape? I see a lot of guys running around with lacquer tape and calling it frog tape.


The real deal.


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## journeymanPainter

Bender said:


> Was it frog tape or just green tape? I see a lot of guys running around with lacquer tape and calling it frog tape.


Lacquer tape?


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## Bender

journeymanPainter said:


> Lacquer tape?


Lacquer tape


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## journeymanPainter

Bender said:


> Lacquer tape


Even though I now know what you mean that looks pretty confusing


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## ReNt A PaInTeR

cdpainting said:


> This was just a previous bad paint job. No primers used. It didn't matter how you pulled the tape the paint was coming off with it. Figures, if I knew this would happen i would have sanded the walls to remove the failing paint. Looking at it there was no signs it would do this, the paint looked fresh and tight.
> 
> This was way to close for comfort. We have done a few of these and this is the first time running into this.


Did you make that line with a blade? :blink:


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## Epoxy Pro

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> Did you make that line with a blade? :blink:


No. Idea Paint goes on think. Every job we do like this, this is how the white board looks. I did have a razor on me anyways but the tape needs to be pulled while the Idea Paint is still wet.


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## George Z

Adhesion of the previous coat is bad.
I guess you could have tested it, but who does that on normal looking walls.
If the Idea$Paint$ is still ok, all you can do now is just fix and paint everything around it.


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## Epoxy Pro

George Z said:


> Adhesion of the previous coat is bad.
> I guess you could have tested it, but who does that on normal looking walls.
> If the Idea$Paint$ is still ok, all you can do now is just fix and paint everything around it.


I never thought of tape testing previous coatings, usually there are signs but not in this case or no priming cases. From now on I am going to tape test any walls we put Idea Paint on.

As for fixing every thing the landlord already said no, fix what the tape pulled only. They just had it painted this past summer. I know who did it, this guy for some reason hires all of our throw away employees. Lets them with no experience have free run of jobs. Long story short he is making us money, we get calls to fix his mistakes.

The landlord did say he will call us from now on. :thumbup: Tons of office spaces.


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## two fingers

If the existing surface had a sheen it might have been a good idea to scuff the perimeter where you knew where you were going to be laying tape on the fresh coating..


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## DrakeB

This was obviously a problem with the previous coating, but I'm just curious if you carry a roll of the yellow frog for situations where you run into adhesion problems like this (and actually have warning signs to go by)?


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## ReNt A PaInTeR

cdpainting said:


> No. Idea Paint goes on think.


I had No Idea. :whistling2:


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## Epoxy Pro

two fingers said:


> If the existing surface had a sheen it might have been a good idea to scuff the perimeter where you knew where you were going to be laying tape on the fresh coating..


I found out after it happened the place was painted recently. We were not painting walls so scuffing where the tape goes was not an option (at the time). We had taped other walls and the paint bonded good and didn't pull up except that 1 wall. The trim paint did peel when we removed the tape. Trust me if I had any way of telling with out doing a tape test I would have either addressed the issue or let the renter know and let the landlord make the call.

I did use our Festool RO125 with 150 grit to sand/scuff the wall where the Idea Paint was going and it sanded normal.



Woodford said:


> This was obviously a problem with the previous coating, but I'm just curious if you carry a roll of the yellow frog for situations where you run into adhesion problems like this (and actually have warning signs to go by)?


We try to but only 1 store around here stocks it and I really do not like going in there and giving them my money. I like the store owner he is a great guy but him employees are not good at any thing they do. I wont step foot in the local SW and have no clue if they sell it. Our main paint store I asked them to stock it. They said they put in an order last week and should be here today actually.


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## BhamPainter

Looks to me like crappy acrylic over alkyd with no primer. Ain't no tape in the world gonna prevent that from pullin'. Perhaps the reason you didn't see it was because the paint _was_ fresh.



cdpainting said:


> This was just a previous bad paint job. No primers used. It didn't matter how you pulled the tape the paint was coming off with it. Figures, if I knew this would happen i would have sanded the walls to remove the failing paint. Looking at it there was no signs it would do this, the paint looked fresh and tight.
> 
> This was way to close for comfort. We have done a few of these and this is the first time running into this.


http://www.painttalk.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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## DrakeB

cdpainting said:


> We try to but only 1 store around here stocks it and I really do not like going in there and giving them my money. I like the store owner he is a great guy but him employees are not good at any thing they do. I wont step foot in the local SW and have no clue if they sell it. Our main paint store I asked them to stock it. They said they put in an order last week and should be here today actually.


Does stock it at most of their stores, but I'm sure as hell not gonna try to convince you to go in there 

It's great that your main store is willing to work with you on stuff you need. We try to do that for our painters as well.


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## Epoxy Pro

Woodford said:


> Does stock it at most of their stores, but I'm sure as hell not gonna try to convince you to go in there
> 
> It's great that your main store is willing to work with you on stuff you need. We try to do that for our painters as well.


So far the only thing our main store will not stock is Festool.

This is why I keep going there, if they don't stock it they will atleast order some to give it a shot.


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## CRS

I think you just have an adhesion issue with the paint your using. I f you can not use the standard 3M #2020 "high adhesion" with an overnight dry time on your paint..... switch paint. On the other hand , somethings going on with your substrate, glossy/ aged alkyd perhaps, high PVC primer, or some kind of contaminaton. We formulator's address these issues in our developments.

Green frog tape is medium adhesion, yellow frog is low. The 3M green tape is the highest adhesion of all the painter tapes on the market.


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## DrakeB

CRS said:


> I think you just have an adhesion issue with the paint your using. I f you can not use the standard 3M #2020 "high adhesion" with an overnight dry time on your paint..... switch paint. On the other hand , somethings going on with your substrate, glossy/ aged alkyd perhaps, high PVC primer, or some kind of contaminaton. We formulator's address these issues in our developments.
> 
> Green frog tape is medium adhesion, yellow frog is low. The 3M green tape is the highest adhesion of all the painter tapes on the market.


If it's pulling up the lower coat of paint (which was on the wall before he got there) it's not a problem with his paint's adhesion :blink:


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## LaserLines

Sounds like a good place for MDC Walltalkers.


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