# views from atop the scaffolding



## tsunamicontract

We were washing this house for a maintenance coat today, it sits on top of a ridge in southern WI. Thought it was kinda nice view, nice thing to be doing on a hot sunny day.


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## ewingpainting.net

To bad you couldn't sit down and smoke you a nice cigar.


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## vermontpainter

Tsunami

There are days where I dont know what to make of you. Then there are days like today. Nice looking deal.


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## tsunamicontract

vermontpainter said:


> Tsunami
> 
> There are days where I dont know what to make of you. Then there are days like today. Nice looking deal.


I had to put at least one picture of a serious looking job site so you all would stop picking on me :yes:


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## vermontpainter

tsunamicontract said:


> I had to put at least one picture of a serious looking job site so you all would stop picking on me :yes:


Ok, so fess up, that IS every piece of equipment you own, right?


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## MAK-Deco

Is that the crappy Louisville ladder I see ??

Taking a chance with that stand off on the window sash???


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## tsunamicontract

MAK-Deco said:


> Is that the crappy Louisville ladder I see ??
> 
> Taking a chance with that stand off on the window sash???


ABSOLUTELY NOT!
That sand off is on the strong sash of the window, the one that doesn't open. And we made the ladder a little steep so there is less force on the window. But yah, they are casement windows so it wasn't the best solution. 

And Scott, no, 2 more ext. ladders, a folding ladder, some steps, some planks, and 4 sections of scaffolding set up on the other side as well as two spray rigs sitting at home. Maybe some other stuff but its not coming to mind.


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## vermontpainter

Just messin with you TC. I want to see the after shot of the maintenance coat, and please, for the love of God, tell me you are not going to spray the house.


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## tsunamicontract

vermontpainter said:


> Just messin with you TC. I want to see the after shot of the maintenance coat, and please, for the love of God, tell me you are not going to spray the house.


It is Cabot's semi solid right now and I recommended recoating with that but they wanted a latex solid stain for longevity and hopefully some resistance to the seemingly wind born mold spores (thats what I get for explaining all the options huh). But I was going to spray it on (low pressure) and backbrush it. Why would you not spray it? Stain is so messy to get on siding that I like to squirt it on if I can.


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## vermontpainter

tsunamicontract said:


> It is Cabot's semi solid right now and I recommended recoating with that but they wanted a latex solid stain for longevity and hopefully some resistance to the seemingly wind born mold spores (thats what I get for explaining all the options huh). But I was going to spray it on (low pressure) and backbrush it. Why would you not spray it? Stain is so messy to get on siding that I like to squirt it on if I can.


Ok, but I do want to see progress pics and finished pics.


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## tsunamicontract

alright Scott, Deal.


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## tsunamicontract

and while I am at it, what am I going to do to safely access the sides of these dormers? If I roof jack and put a ladder on it, I almost think a roof jack should go at the top of the ladder then. I also have never used roof jacks, not how I do it without compromising the properties of the roof.


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## HomeGuardPaints

get an old sofa cushion, that will keep you on that roof


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## Bushdude

tsunamicontract said:


> and while I am at it, what am I going to do to safely access the sides of these dormers? If I roof jack and put a ladder on it, I almost think a roof jack should go at the top of the ladder then. I also have never used roof jacks, not how I do it without compromising the properties of the roof.


Get yourself 10 lbs. of cheese, nuke it till its soft and pour it on the roof, you wont go anywhere...


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## [email protected]

tsunamicontract said:


> and while I am at it, what am I going to do to safely access the sides of these dormers? If I roof jack and put a ladder on it, I almost think a roof jack should go at the top of the ladder then. I also have never used roof jacks, not how I do it without compromising the properties of the roof.


What I do to access a pitch I am not comfortable with in order to access the side of a dormer, is: Seperate my 16' extention (now it's 8'). Set up my 20' or 24' extension so that the horns sit on the roof going up to the side I need to access. Take the 8' (was the 16'ft extension) section that has the horns attached and lay it on the roof upside down so that the horns lock together. Always have another guy on the ladder below while you climb the ladder laying on the roof. If it's composition roofing then you will not scar it if your careful. Always walk a roof in the cool of the day. Do all roof work in the morning if you can. You may have allready known this.... If anything it may be confirmation...


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## [email protected]

Ok, here comes the stupid question: :whistling2:

What is a "maintenance" coat? 

Does the price differ from a standard coat?


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## [email protected]

Another thing.... lol...

Explain a "ridge"...

Them there parts of WI look flat. I see some gopher hills, but no ridges..... 

Perhaps I am used to something more like the ridge of a mountain. But, if you call that a ridge.... okie dokie...


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## GMack

tsunamicontract said:


> and while I am at it, what am I going to do to safely access the sides of these dormers? If I roof jack and put a ladder on it, I almost think a roof jack should go at the top of the ladder then. I also have never used roof jacks, not how I do it without compromising the properties of the roof.


Buy more ladder stabilizers . . . With a stabilizer on one of your bigger extensions, you should be able to set the stabilizer right onto the roof without touching the gutter. Now just walk up the ladder . . . It's hard to tell if this will work in this situation but this is how we access 90% of our dormers.


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## MAK-Deco

GMack said:


> But more ladder stabilizers . . . With a stabilizer on one of your bigger extensions, you should be able to set the stabilizer right onto the roof without touching the gutter. Now just walk up the ladder . . . It's hard to tell if this will work in this situation but this is how we access 90% of our dormers.



I second that thought. We ride our ladders up the roof with the standoffs all the time...


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## tsunamicontract

GMack said:


> But more ladder stabilizers . . . With a stabilizer on one of your bigger extensions, you should be able to set the stabilizer right onto the roof without touching the gutter. Now just walk up the ladder . . . It's hard to tell if this will work in this situation but this is how we access 90% of our dormers.


That will get me on the roof, but that is not the problem. I want a more secure way to hang out on the sides of the dormers. Maybe I don't understand what you mean.

Jason- This is the unglaciated part of WI, there is probably like 200-300 feet of vertical rise around here. It aint mountains but its still pretty hilly.
A maintenance coat (to me) is what people should be doing. It means no scraping or sanding or priming or anything like that, just means the top coat is starting to wear out and its time for a fresh one (before it all starts to fall off). No color change either.


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## vermontpainter

Like this. The standoffs allow you to run with the roof pitch and clear the gutters. The steeper the roof the better.


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## MAK-Deco

tsunamicontract said:


> That will get me on the roof, but that is not the problem. I want a more secure way to hang out on the sides of the dormers. Maybe I don't understand what you mean.
> 
> Jason- This is the unglaciated part of WI, there is probably like 200-300 feet of vertical rise around here. It aint mountains but its still pretty hilly.
> A maintenance coat (to me) is what people should be doing. It means no scraping or sanding or priming or anything like that, just means the top coat is starting to wear out and its time for a fresh one (before it all starts to fall off). No color change either.


You run your ladder up along the dormer, the stand off keeps it off the roof a little and then you stack it in the ground (ladder will be on same angle as roof)

Never mind VP bet me to it!!! damn it!


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## MAK-Deco

Hey Tsun,

here are some ladder feet that won't bend or break on you...


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## vermontpainter

MAK-Deco said:


> You run your ladder up along the dormer, the stand off keeps it off the roof a little and then you stack it in the ground (ladder will be on same angle as roof)
> 
> Never mind VP bet me to it!!! damn it!


One of these days, MAK!


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## NEPS.US

MAK-Deco said:


> You run your ladder up along the dormer, the stand off keeps it off the roof a little and then you stack it in the ground (ladder will be on same angle as roof)
> 
> Never mind VP bet me to it!!! damn it!


I know I may be the resident a-hole here on PT but .....isnt this "exterior painting 101" here ..... how do people survive?


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## MAK-Deco

NEPS.US said:


> I know I may be the resident a-hole here on PT but .....isnt this "exterior painting 101" here ..... how do people survive?


well NEPS a lot of guys here that need help :whistling2:


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## NEPS.US

MAK-Deco said:


> well NEPS a lot of guys here that need help :whistling2:


I know Mak ...I'm tired tonight and cranky ...should shut my keyboard up some nights.


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## [email protected]

[email protected] said:


> What I do to access a pitch I am not comfortable with in order to access the side of a dormer, is: Seperate my 16' extention (now it's 8'). Set up my 20' or 24' extension so that the horns sit on the roof going up to the side I need to access. Take the 8' (was the 16'ft extension) section that has the horns attached and lay it on the roof upside down so that the horns lock together. Always have another guy on the ladder below while you climb the ladder laying on the roof. If it's composition roofing then you will not scar it if your careful. Always walk a roof in the cool of the day. Do all roof work in the morning if you can. You may have allready known this.... If anything it may be confirmation...


Here's a pic of what I explained earlier:
















This takes two people, and is only another option to think about.


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## MAK-Deco

Hey Jason get some ladder hooks and the other guy can be painting  

You back rolling


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## vermontpainter

NEPS.US said:


> I know I may be the resident a-hole here on PT


:laughing::w00t::icon_lol::lol::balloon:

Ok, now that I am done laughing at you, I have a confession to make. Prior to last month, I did not own a standoff/stabilizer. I had always done dormers either with ridge hooks or roof brackets and planks. My friend and colleague GMack suggested I do this maneuver. The photos I posted are the very first job we ever did it on. I am never going back. It is the simplest and safest way to do it.


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## NEPS.US

vermontpainter said:


> :laughing::w00t::icon_lol::lol::balloon:
> 
> Ok, now that I am done laughing at you, I have a confession to make. Prior to last month, I did not own a standoff/stabilizer. I had always done dormers either with ridge hooks or roof brackets and planks. My friend and colleague GMack suggested I do this maneuver. The photos I posted are the very first job we ever did it on. I am never going back. It is the simplest and safest way to do it.


Thats a bad confession ....you have dropped a few pegs as a experience painter now.

J .... why cover that window if your spraying into a shutter and a (looks to be) 8-10 inch trim piece ....use a smaller tip, back roll and save some money on materials and labor...... and get a roof hook ....20 bucks ...labor for two guys wasting time there ...... or use the standoff like Scotty boy finally learned and get the whole thing done faster and safer. Just make sure you dont hit the gutter and have a kickout.


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## NEPS.US

.......also ....take a roll of red rosin paper....cut it in half .... hammer staple it in on the shingles nice and snug against the house. Will protect from overspray and will be safer than stepping on a drop on a roof. Plus you leave it up the protect from drips when trimming it out.


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## vermontpainter

NEPS.US said:


> Thats a bad confession ....you have dropped a few pegs as a experience painter now.


NEPS


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## [email protected]

NEPS.US said:


> Thats a bad confession ....you have dropped a few pegs as a experience painter now.
> 
> J .... why cover that window if your spraying into a shutter and a (looks to be) 8-10 inch trim piece ....use a smaller tip, back roll and save some money on materials and labor......


To justify the time to switch to a smaller tip from my 413 so that I can eliminate masking a window? Nah.... I need that 413 for the bulk of the body. I'd rather mask the window and keep any mishap from getting any paint on it... You should know that extra prep is better than the lack there of.... Rework is costly! 

There is no purpose to Back roll on that flat panel stucco look-a-like. I rarely back roll anything unless it's T111 or Rough cedar. Otherwise backrolling is a waste of time and money. There is only very few situations where backrolling is beneficial but most situations around here it's useless.


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## vermontpainter

[email protected] said:


> To justify the time to switch to a smaller tip from my 413 so that I can eliminate masking a window? Nah.... I need that 413 for the bulk of the body. I'd rather mask the window and keep any mishap from getting any paint on it... You should know that extra prep is better than the lack there of.... Rework is costly!
> 
> _Jason - You dont have a dual lance wand on your sprayer so you can have two guns/tips on one hose? And, uh, we will take your word on rework._
> 
> Otherwise backrolling is a waste of time and money. There is only very few situations where backrolling is beneficial but most situations around here it's useless.
> 
> _Yikes. _


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## MAK-Deco

vermontpainter said:


> [email protected] said:
> 
> 
> 
> T
> 
> _Yikes. _
> 
> 
> 
> My thoughts actually
Click to expand...


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## NEPS.US

[email protected] said:


> To justify the time to switch to a smaller tip from my 413 so that I can eliminate masking a window? Nah.... I need that 413 for the bulk of the body. I'd rather mask the window and keep any mishap from getting any paint on it... You should know that extra prep is better than the lack there of.... Rework is costly!
> 
> There is no purpose to Back roll on that flat panel stucco look-a-like. I rarely back roll anything unless it's T111 or Rough cedar. Otherwise backrolling is a waste of time and money. There is only very few situations where backrolling is beneficial but most situations around here it's useless.


413 is a small tip for exterior paints .... and for back rolling stucco .... it helps to get a FULL coat of paint on the substrate .... see how light your overspray looks. Your moving too fast with a small tip big boy. With that kind of reveal around a window a 1/2 decent sprayer could do it with a shield and no mask. Why not remove the shutters and paint the stucco behind them? Why paint a shutter on the house? Lets see. ...what else ...nice jeans ......you should be doing your trim prep before spraying and finishes on the body...... good luck.


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## vermontpainter

NEPS.US said:


> 413 is a small tip for exterior paints .... and for back rolling stucco .... it helps to get a FULL coat of paint on the substrate .... see how light your overspray looks. Your moving too fast with a small tip big boy. With that kind of reveal around a window a 1/2 decent sprayer could do it with a shield and no mask. Why not remove the shutters and paint the stucco behind them? Why paint a shutter on the house? Lets see. ...what else ...nice jeans ......you should be doing your trim prep before spraying and finishes on the body...... good luck.


Can't fault the logic of this post. Well except maybe the jeans comment.


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## [email protected]

Ok.. so, on a smooth surface, what is the purpose of backrolling? Most siding around here is that cement horizontal lap siding and it's smooth and already has paint on it.... there is no place to push the paint and backrolling will give it a stippled texture.... Who wants that?


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## NEPS.US

[email protected] said:


> Ok.. so, on a smooth surface, what is the purpose of backrolling? Most siding around here is that cement horizontal lap siding and it's smooth and already has paint on it.... there is no place to push the paint and backrolling will give it a stippled texture.... Who wants that?


Ok ...use a 3/8 nap on it have little orange peel. You can and will get lap marks from spraying when ....a worn tip, a new (too small tip) with thick paint with the wrong pressure, overlapping and multiple dry times. If you ever have a dark color to paint or have flashing from angles you can see uneven dry times. Deep bases stack color and will flash. I am willing to bet that the reason why you do not get alot of "spray lines" is because you are not applying enough paint to the stucco ....just my opinion. Been there.

Have you ever sprayed flat finish on interior walls. One of many reasons for back rolling.


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## [email protected]

NEPS.US said:


> 413 is a small tip for exterior paints .... and for back rolling stucco .... it helps to get a FULL coat of paint on the substrate .... see how light your overspray looks. Your moving too fast with a small tip big boy. With that kind of reveal around a window a 1/2 decent sprayer could do it with a shield and no mask. Why not remove the shutters and paint the stucco behind them? Why paint a shutter on the house? Lets see. ...what else ...nice jeans ......you should be doing your trim prep before spraying and finishes on the body...... good luck.


We prep the body and paint it, then prep the trim and paint it.

Back rolling actually moves the paint around (smooth surfaces) and takes away the thickness required by the sprayer to get full coverage. 

You see light overspray because that is the edge of the fan.... That is normal for the most part. Shudders are nailed on. No need to remove those. If the shudder was screwed on, I would have removed them as that is normal practice. Again, it's not really Stucco......

Sorry if I don't meet up to your standards or processes, but that's not my job.......


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## NEPS.US

[email protected] said:


> We prep the body and paint it, then prep the trim and paint it.
> 
> Back rolling actually moves the paint around (smooth surfaces) and takes away the thickness required by the sprayer to get full coverage.
> 
> You see light overspray because that is the edge of the fan.... That is normal for the most part. Shudders are nailed on. No need to remove those. If the shudder was screwed on, I would have removed them as that is normal practice. Again, it's not really Stucco......
> 
> Sorry if I don't meet up to your standards or processes, but that's not my job.......


You really call yourself a pro? Is your job "blow-n-go" ?...... you should scrape the lettering off the cap of that 89'. Your a DIY'er charging HO's. I would fire you from my house or my job as soon as I saw that gun in your inexperienced hand. YOU give spraying a bad name.


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## [email protected]

NEPS.US said:


> I am willing to bet that the reason why you do not get alot of "spray lines" is because you are not applying enough paint to the stucco ....just my opinion. Been there.
> 
> Have you ever sprayed flat finish on interior walls. One of many reasons for back rolling.


I backroll all interior walls.... Lets stay with the exterior conversation. 

Back to an earlier comment about moving too fast and not getting enough paint on the siding... You obvioulsy haven't see me paint. I am a more moderate sprayer than what I see in the field. I am the guy that is always saying "slow down, take your time and do it right". My processes do well and have kept me in business for some time now.... I don't REALLY need the critique but thanks anyways...


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## [email protected]

NEPS.US said:


> You really call yourself a pro? Is your job "blow-n-go" ?...... you should scrape the lettering off the cap of that 89'. Your a DIY'er charging HO's. I would fire you from my house or my job as soon as I saw that gun in your inexperienced hand. YOU give spraying a bad name.


:laughing::laughing:


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## NEPS.US

[email protected] said:


> I backroll all interior walls.... Lets stay with the exterior conversation.
> 
> Back to an earlier comment about moving too fast and not getting enough paint on the siding... You obvioulsy haven't see me paint. I am a more moderate sprayer than what I see in the field. I am the guy that is always saying "slow down, take your time and do it right". My processes do well and have kept me in business for some time now.... I don't REALLY need the critique but thanks anyways...


YOU posted the picks pal. The proof is in the spray pattern and overspray. You is .......a hack. I have never heard of a painter that finishes the body of a house and then goes back to prep the trim. I hope you include a "end of paint job powerwash" at the end of all your jobs. Thanks for sharing tonight.


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## [email protected]

NEPS.US said:


> YOU posted the picks pal. The proof is in the spray pattern and overspray. You is .......a hack. I have never heard of a painter that finishes the body of a house and then goes back to prep the trim. I hope you include a "end of paint job powerwash" at the end of all your jobs. Thanks for sharing tonight.


That's ok NEPS. You da'man! :notworthy: :thumbup:


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## tsunamicontract

man, I missed a lot. Scott, that does look like a good solution for single story dormers. One of the dormers is a full two stories up over a large concrete driveway. Lets do the math. I think the pitch of the roof is about 45 degrees. Side a = 20 feet, side b = 20 feet. 20' squared times two=800. The square root of 800 is 28. That is 28 feet just to get to the roof. To get up to the dormer I would need a 40. Now lowering a 40 footer with a stand off down to a 45 degree angle fully extended onto a roof on concrete or loose gravel. That sounds like fun. 
So back to reality, I don't think that will work, ladder hooks wont, there is not a good tie off solution to repel down to the dormers, so roof brackets are really my only option besides 10 lbs of melted cheese (which could be melted on site to ease in transport and we could bring a lot of chips and have roof nachos) or an old couch cushion which I don't think would have enough padding when I slid off to concrete 20 ft down.
Would you put roof brackets at the top of the ladder (sounds like a good use for my bent louisville)? I have never used those before. I assume you pry up the shingle bottom, nail it, use it, pull the nails out, put the shingle back down. Am I off?

Jason's idea doesn't look too safe either, I don't think the gutter would catch me when the ladder started sliding, knocking both of us down and damaging the roof. Jason, if I were in your position, my rational for masking the window would have been so that I didn't have to scrape any stray overspray off the window (not saying I would hit it with the tip but it could float around and stick to it). How do you scrape and sand the trim after you have painted the body? Don't you mess it all up with your ladders? Have you tried other methods and this is the one that worked best for you? Do you seriously spray a body with a 413? That is a pretty small orifice for duration. I always shoot with a 517 unless there are "special" circumstances. But looks to me like that needs to get backrolled. The only time I don't back brush is 3rd coat on smooth cedar or hardi if I know I can move fast enough to keep it wet.


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## timhag

NEPS.US said:


> YOU posted the picks pal. The proof is in the spray pattern and overspray. You is .......a hack. I have never heard of a painter that finishes the body of a house and then goes back to prep the trim. I hope you include a "end of paint job powerwash" at the end of all your jobs. Thanks for sharing tonight.


....


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## [email protected]

tsunamicontract said:


> Jason's idea doesn't look too safe either, I don't think the gutter would catch me when the ladder started sliding, knocking both of us down and damaging the roof. Jason, if I were in your position, my rational for masking the window would have been so that I didn't have to scrape any stray overspray off the window (not saying I would hit it with the tip but it could float around and stick to it). How do you scrape and sand the trim after you have painted the body? Don't you mess it all up with your ladders? Have you tried other methods and this is the one that worked best for you? Do you seriously spray a body with a 413? That is a pretty small orifice for duration. I always shoot with a 517 unless there are "special" circumstances. But looks to me like that needs to get backrolled. The only time I don't back brush is 3rd coat on smooth cedar or hardi if I know I can move fast enough to keep it wet.


I am no rocket scientist, but it's obvious that a 413 needs a slower pace in order to get the right millage. I like the 413 because I have better control of the spray pattern.

How do you paint the trim without shooting the body all over it? 

I do get some ladder marks on the new paint, but that is minimal touch-up. Most of the homes around here paint the backside of the fascia boards, back side of the gutters, eves and body all the same color. So....... now if I paint the trim which is only the face and bottom side of the fascia and gutters then return to shoot the body color, I will mess up the bottom side of the trim with over spray (fascia and gutters) and have to repaint the trim. Why would I want the extra work? It seems either way you do it you meet your challenges. I am only an expert at what I do, not at what anyone else does....

Trim is never sprayed, always brushed and rolled (4" roller). What's the big deal if you do it last or first? Again you have your challenges either way. 

What needs backrolled? And how do you know that it looks like it needs it? Backrolling is a myth to a degree. I allready mentioned before what I think needs backrolling. NOT EVERY SURFACE NEEDS BACKROLLED! Especially smooth painted surfaces.... and yes that fake stucco panel is rather smooth and took a good dose of sprayed paint very well. Look! no stipple! Duration, won't peel or blister... imagine that..... yeah... sprayed on with no backroll.... Backrolling doesn't make the paint stick any better than sprayed on when the surface is smooth and painted..... T111 and rough cedar is a different story...

Wow... what a picture will bring to the surface... You cannot gain enough information to gather a quality opinion based on a picture without having actually been there to see the work that made the picture what it is.... come on! :boxing::laughing:


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## tsunamicontract

Jason, I wasn't raggin on ya, just curious as to your strategy. We usually prep everything, shot the body with a back brush (not roll but that is not on stucco) and then brush out the trim. I have been finding the fleece bonnets on my new standoff don't leave much marks or mars, we also try to do as much trim with step ladders. Back brushing is not a myth. Rolling might be but you just don't get it worked into all the little nooks and crannies of most repaints here without a brush. I basically use the sprayer to get paint easily and evenly on the house.


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## [email protected]

tsunamicontract said:


> Jason, I wasn't raggin on ya, just curious as to your strategy. We usually prep everything, shot the body with a back brush (not roll but that is not on stucco) and then brush out the trim. I have been finding the fleece bonnets on my new standoff don't leave much marks or mars, we also try to do as much trim with step ladders. Back brushing is not a myth. Rolling might be but you just don't get it worked into all the little nooks and crannies of most repaints here without a brush. I basically use the sprayer to get paint easily and evenly on the house.


Thanks Tsunam!

We just don't have the nooks and crannies for the use of a brush or roller as a followed process of the sprayer. 

Now, I do admit, the last home I did, I wished I'da back brushed or at minimum followed with a 4" weenie... The nail heads we primed (shoulda tinted the primer....) never really got 100% coverage with the sprayer. I learned a lesson on that one.... We rarely paint cedar siding and I didn't even offer to backroll or brush in the estimate. Had I.... I would have charged more... After a third sprayed on coat on two sides, I proved the upset homeowner wrong, who was for certain that the sprayer would have filled in the holes.... nope.... He genuinely said he would touch-up the nail spots..... after I put 30 Gal on his house..... Ughhh..... There are some processes I just don't remember ALL the time... Some people have the perfect world.... I don't... :whistling2:


Fleece bonnets? I use 100% cotten rags (white) and wrap those around my stand offs.... What are fleece bonnets?


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## [email protected]

tsunamicontract said:


> J....we also try to do as much trim with step ladders.


Same here.


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## MAK-Deco

tsunamicontract said:


> I don't think that will work, ladder hooks wont, there is not a good tie off solution to repel down to the dormers, so roof brackets are really my only option besides 10 lbs of melted cheese (which could be melted on site to ease in transport and we could bring a lot of chips and have roof nachos) or an old couch cushion which I don't think would have enough padding when I slid off to concrete 20 ft down.
> Would you put roof brackets at the top of the ladder (sounds like a good use for my bent louisville)? I have never used those before. I assume you pry up the shingle bottom, nail it, use it, pull the nails out, put the shingle back down. Am I off?


You don't have to repel down to the dormers using ladder hooks. You will be able to walk up the roof. The hooks go up at the top so the "hook" over the ridge. You can only use one... If you use two NEPS will be all over you


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## [email protected]

What are the wheels for?

Are they to allow easier travel up the roof? 

Thanks for the pic, I have never seen those. They seem to be a special order here in the SW store... I don't see them stocked any where.


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## Pete's Painting

The wheels are so you can go skateboarding after work.


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## NEPS.US

You can take the _*wanna-be-painter*_ out of the 88 Ford Escort Station Wagon, but you cant take the 88 Ford Station Wagon out of the *wanna-be painter.*


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## vermontpainter

neps...the resident speaks!


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## PVPainter

Jason, It sounds to me like maybe you should re-evaluate the way you do a few things (this is just constructive criticism) As far as doing the trim after the body, I feel thats very backwards. Not only are you leaving ladder marks on the body, what about drips? In terms of not backrolling, you might want to reconsider that as well. I have had to do re-coats on plenty of houses that my competition didnt backroll or backbrush. When you spray an exterior with out rolling or brushing it in, the paint isnt being pushed into the pores of the surface, so any dust thats on the surface is what the paint bonds to, not the siding. I dont know if you offer a warranty or not, but if you do, I would stop the blow and go for your own good. To me the easiest way to do a house in terms of order is this

1) Scrape everything, and get all your chips cleaned up.
2) Prime everything
3) Do your 1st and 2nd coat on your soffits/facia, meanwhile as you come down do your first coat on window trim and corner boards.
4) Go up the ladder with your trim paint, body paint, and sprayer that is in body paint. You cut the bottom of the soffit in with your body (1, maybe two claps down from it) then spray and backbrush away. When you get to a window or corner board you cut the body in, and then hit the second coat on the trim. All the while spraying/backbrushing as you go. When you get to the bottom you have everything finish painted, and if you do it right, no touchups. Obviously this order doesnt always work because every job is different (hot days mostly because its too slow and you end up with laps) but in an ideal world I feel this is the way to go. Hope this helps make your life a little easier.


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## vermontpainter

PVPainter said:


> Jason, It sounds to me like maybe you should re-evaluate the way you do a few things (this is just constructive criticism) As far as doing the trim after the body, I feel thats very backwards. Not only are you leaving ladder marks on the body, what about drips? In terms of not backrolling, you might want to reconsider that as well. I have had to do re-coats on plenty of houses that my competition didnt backroll or backbrush. When you spray an exterior with out rolling or brushing it in, the paint isnt being pushed into the pores of the surface, so any dust thats on the surface is what the paint bonds to, not the siding. I dont know if you offer a warranty or not, but if you do, I would stop the blow and go for your own good. To me the easiest way to do a house in terms of order is this
> 
> 1) Scrape everything, and get all your chips cleaned up.
> 2) Prime everything
> 3) Do your 1st and 2nd coat on your soffits/facia, meanwhile as you come down do your first coat on window trim and corner boards.
> 4) Go up the ladder with your trim paint, body paint, and sprayer that is in body paint. You cut the bottom of the soffit in with your body (1, maybe two claps down from it) then spray and backbrush away. When you get to a window or corner board you cut the body in, and then hit the second coat on the trim. All the while spraying/backbrushing as you go. When you get to the bottom you have everything finish painted, and if you do it right, no touchups. Obviously this order doesnt always work because every job is different (hot days mostly because its too slow and you end up with laps) but in an ideal world I feel this is the way to go. Hope this helps make your life a little easier.


 
That is a nice post.


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## PVPainter

my mistake I actually missed something, I go through and do the first coat on the body first thing after everythings primed up.


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## MAK-Deco

[email protected] said:


> What are the wheels for?
> 
> Are they to allow easier travel up the roof?
> 
> Thanks for the pic, I have never seen those. They seem to be a special order here in the SW store... I don't see them stocked any where.


The wheels for rolling up the roof then turn it and set up against the ridge. I bought mine online i think there 20$ a piece


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## NEPS.US

MAK-Deco said:


> The wheels for rolling up the roof then turn it and set up against the ridge. I bought mine online i think there 20$ a piece


20 bucks Home Depot ....roofing section


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## vermontpainter

MAK-Deco said:


> The wheels for rolling up the roof then turn it and set up against the ridge. I bought mine online i think there 20$ a piece


So the ridge is the peak of the roof or is it the mountain view in the background? I can probably get that contraption hooked over the roof but if I want to hook it to the view, do I need a special sky hook or something? :whistling2:


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## CApainter

The next rounds on me V.


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## GMack

tsunamicontract said:


> man, I missed a lot. Scott, that does look like a good solution for single story dormers. One of the dormers is a full two stories up over a large concrete driveway. Lets do the math. I think the pitch of the roof is about 45 degrees. Side a = 20 feet, side b = 20 feet. 20' squared times two=800. The square root of 800 is 28. That is 28 feet just to get to the roof. To get up to the dormer I would need a 40. Now lowering a 40 footer with a stand off down to a 45 degree angle fully extended onto a roof on concrete or loose gravel. That sounds like fun.
> So back to reality, I don't think that will work,
> 
> I don't know about square roots but, looking at your pics again, it will work. I've set 40 footers onto roofs by myself; if you have one helper it should be a breeze. This really isn't too big of a deal.


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## vermontpainter

GMack said:


> tsunamicontract said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know about square roots but, looking at your pics again, it will work. I've set 40 footers onto roofs by myself; if you have one helper it should be a breeze. This really isn't too big of a deal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Man, I thought you and me overanalyzed things.
Click to expand...


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## GMack

vermontpainter said:


> GMack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Man, I thought you and me overanalyzed things.
> 
> 
> 
> Starting tommorrow, I'm keeping a scientific calculator in the van so I know how to set up my ladders. I advise you to do the same.
Click to expand...


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## vermontpainter

GMack said:


> vermontpainter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Starting tommorrow, I'm keeping a scientific calculator in the van so I know how to set up my ladders. I advise you to do the same.
> 
> 
> 
> Well its funny that this came up. I had always noticed that my extension ladders form a triangle with the ground and the side of the house. I have been using the quadratic equation. Square root should work alot better. I think it applies better to triangulation.
Click to expand...


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## GMack

vermontpainter said:


> GMack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well its funny that this came up. I had always noticed that my extension ladders form a triangle with the ground and the side of the house. I have been using the quadratic equation. Square root should work alot better. I think it applies better to triangulation.
> 
> 
> 
> Right again, VermontPainter . . . I'll have to re-write the handbook so my guys know that we no longer use the quadratic equation. From now on, square roots . . . Should we drink tea next time we meet instead of coffee, may be more fitting for a couple of sophisticated mathematical minds like us. Your call. I'm good either way . . .
Click to expand...


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## vermontpainter

GMack said:


> vermontpainter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Right again, VermontPainter . . . I'll have to re-write the handbook so my guys know that we no longer use the quadratic equation. From now on, square roots . . . Should we drink tea next time we meet instead of coffee, may be more fitting for a couple of sophisticated mathematical minds like us. Your call. I'm good either way . . .
> 
> 
> 
> We better stick to coffee and beer. I feel like a dingaling for using the quadratic equation on a triangle. I mean its all like "duh", quad means four, tri means three. Think of all the years I have been sending people up ladders that were too steep. Glad we caught this.
Click to expand...


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## GMack

vermontpainter said:


> GMack said:
> 
> 
> 
> We better stick to coffee and beer. I feel like a dingaling for using the quadratic equation on a triangle. I mean its all like "duh", quad means four, tri means three. Think of all the years I have been sending people up ladders that were too steep. Glad we caught this.
> 
> 
> 
> We probably should have checked the math the summer all those ladders kept falling backward off the house with our guys still on them. Probably could have saved significantly our worker's comp costs.
Click to expand...


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## fungku

It's actually called Pythagorean Theorem 

Also my extension ladders are the cheap residential ones! go me :thumbup:


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## tsunamicontract

as per Scotts request, here are during and after photos, as well as a pile of cat crap that they thought the best way to deal with it was to put it on the edge of their lawn so we had to smell it the whole time . . .


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## vermontpainter

Tsunami

Looks great! 2 coats on everything? Seems like that happened quickly...one week? How many guys? Nice job.


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## tsunamicontract

one on some, two on others, should have sold two on everything . . .
2 days with 4 people 1 with 3 (including me).
They hopefully will have me back again to do work on their deck and front porch and maybe some interior work.


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## MAK-Deco

Did you backbrush or roll???


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## NEPS.US

nice job Tsu ...hope you made some loot!


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## tsunamicontract

MAK-Deco said:


> Did you backbrush or roll???


6in lap rough cedar, roll wouldn't have done much at all. Though the boards sucked it up quick, we just squired it on as low as we could (800 psi) and back brushed the crap out of it. Still havn't found a great block brush for stuff like this. The ones from Menards right now are the best, the Bestt L. are alright but nothing is great.

Thanks NEPS, but no, I didn't do great on the estimating, went over on the hours a bit and it sucked up an extra gallon of stain. Coulda done worse though and hopefully get repeat business out of it.


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