# Painting a bathtub.



## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

It's been a long time since doing this I know products have changed.

We just looked at a job, a bathtub and sink were previously painted with what looks like latex paint. We will be removing the crap paint job and re coating with what I have no clue yet, that's why I'm asking.

There is slight enamel chipping as well.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

if it were me, I would call the people that do that every day( and do it right)


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## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

If I was you I would sub it to a company that does that. Around here there is a company in Tulsa that all the do are tub/sink refinishing. Just my thoughts that would be hard to make it last.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

Don't do it. The advice given above is solid. It's a niche thing, and you will lose $ and brain cells learning how to do it. I tried a few times in the past, and swore never again. Not. Worth. It.

Guys around here get $4-600 for that kind of work, and are done really quickly. They earn it.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

You can call a bathtub refinisher three of em if u want, they'll give you a price right then on the phone. I'm with the other guys. IMO not worth the hassle. To do it right anyway. It's all they do. They got the equipment. Buy the material in bulk. And so on.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Thanks. I did a little looking around and it would be best to let the guys who do it day in and day out do it.

I'm always up for new or different challenges. I do get bored just painting.


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

Yup, not for the feint of heart that's for sure. I heard of a guy around here who uses automotive paint...


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

driftweed said:


> Yup, not for the feint of heart that's for sure. I heard of a guy around here who uses automotive paint...


I've heard of people doing that. Not sure how well it holds up.


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

Not long at all. The reasoning behind doing it is that automotive paint is "flexible" compared to expoxy based paints. Well, ever seen the dent in a car? 

A clawfoot tub is definitely not the tub to learn on. But it is definitely worth adding this service to your repertoire. Especially on the east coast. Most people I talk to say they average around $80k/year in sales, it's a hot ticket thing over there. 

I would say I have spent around $3-4k to get into it.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

driftweed said:


> Not long at all. The reasoning behind doing it is that automotive paint is "flexible" compared to expoxy based paints. Well, ever seen the dent in a car?
> 
> A clawfoot tub is definitely not the tub to learn on. But it is definitely worth adding this service to your repertoire. Especially on the east coast. Most people I talk to say they average around $80k/year in sales, it's a hot ticket thing over there.
> 
> I would say I have spent around $3-4k to get into it.


I'm with you there, not a good tub to learn on.
I know it's a good seller around here. I want to learn. I'm looking around the web for what ever info I can find, read over and over until I can afford to spend that kind of coin. Remember we reinvested a ton back into our business this year plus with me going back to school for business management course and trying to get my State lead inspector license and EPA lead inspector license, spending that money will have to wait.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

We used to do em with Tile Clad via HVLP. Never over a latex though. 


Stelzer Painting Inc.


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

The hvlp is the biggest cost of getting into this. I use a titan capspray 75 3 stage with the 3m PPS system to accomodate the weird angles. Get setup with that and you are home free. Titan will of course recommend the 4 stage, but the 3 works fine and dandy.

Personally I like the topkote system as the customer support is by far the best, george will literally answer your dumb questions any hour of the day.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

driftweed said:


> The hvlp is the biggest cost of getting into this. I use a titan capspray 75 3 stage with the 3m PPS system to accomodate the weird angles. Get setup with that and you are home free. Titan will of course recommend the 4 stage, but the 3 works fine and dandy.
> 
> Personally I like the topkote system as the customer support is by far the best, george will literally answer your dumb questions any hour of the day.


One of these is on my wish list. We do have a sort of cheap cup gun $179.99, Wagner, it works for now.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

After talking on the phone with 2 different companies that do this I am definitely going to learn how. They both said their crews could blast out a tub and sink in a day, they double up on jobs daily. The prices I got if they did 2 a day for 5 days a week it's $5900-$11,000 a week. A week holy 
We made good money on some jobs but not that much a week.


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## oldccm (Jan 23, 2013)

cdpainting said:


> After talking on the phone with 2 different companies that do this I am definitely going to learn how. They both said their crews could blast out a tub and sink in a day, they double up on jobs daily. The prices I got if they did 2 a day for 5 days a week it's $5900-$11,000 a week. A week holy
> 
> We made good money on some jobs but not that much a week.



It's a money maker sure but a tough racket. To me it's akin to spray staining. It's there for the taking but no one wants to take it lol.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

The coatings are brutal. I would not want to mess around doing 10 a week at all. Smart guys use supplied air. Even then, you probably huff some isocyanates and other carcinogens just being in the same town as some of that stuff.


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

Once it is in your body, its there until you die. You will not digest it, you will not "process" it.

PPE is crucial. Yes you can absorb it through your eyes, and exposed skin. 

Cancer, copd, etc... are long term side effects from exposure. 

Ventilation is also critical.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

The company that is re painting the tub and sinks asked me today if we could strip the sinks for her. I said no (especially for the price she charged) We already have the whole interior, drywall repairs and 2 other jobs going on.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I spray automotive polyurethanes, industrial epoxies, and industrial polyurethanes. I know the hazards associated with over exposure. But I also have an interest in performing this type of work given that I'm experienced at spraying a thermoset coating, which I believe these resurfacing products are.

From my understanding, the crucial part of the job is in the preparation. And besides degreasing the soap scum, scoring the surface, and applying an acid etch, for what I'm presuming is the grout, what products are used for preparation?

Everything else, as far as ventilation and PPE, appears standard aside from the actual location and environment you're using these products in.

What knowledge can you share? Thanks.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

CApainter said:


> I spray automotive polyurethanes, industrial epoxies, and industrial polyurethanes. I know the hazards associated with over exposure. But I also have an interest in performing this type of work given that I'm experienced at spraying a thermoset coating, which I believe these resurfacing products are.
> 
> From my understanding, the crucial part of the job is in the preparation. And besides degreasing the soap scum, scoring the surface, and applying an acid etch, for what I'm presuming is the grout, what products are used for preparation?
> 
> ...


All the guy used was 5f5. As for overall condition the tub and sink are in great shape. For one that beat to crap I am interested in learning more myself.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

cdpainting said:


> All the guy used was 5f5. As for overall condition the tub and sink are in great shape. For one that beat to crap I am interested in learning more myself.


There's got to be more prep then just a paint remover? The baked enamel finish is too hard and smooth to apply even a thermoset coating to and expect it to stick.


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

O.k. I will see if I can help you understand this since you are curious. 

Obviously silicone is the enemy of the paint, so you have to do your due diligence in the prep phase to eliminate all traces of it. I use an LED flashlight from ALL directions/angles combined with a razor blade to scrape the upper flat portion of the tub. This is after I use a 5 i 1 tool to remove the bulk of the caulk. If possible, I use a 2500 lumen floodlight to assist in finding any and all imperfections.

After that, remove all hardware.

Now this is where topkote differs from other processes. I use a heavy duty degreaser with a scouring pad. The degreaser has a minor amount of sulfuric acid in it to give it that oomph. This allows me to skip the "acid etch" phase.

After the tub is clean, I begin masking everything in sight. Take no chances. 

Next, I use the titan capspray 75 with a number 3 needle set and spray 2 coats of a product called crosslink. Think of this stuff as vaporized super glue. After that, I mix up a cocktail of 3 different chemicals (Activator, reducer, epoxy paint) and spray 3-4 thin coats in a crosshatch pattern. Each coat is applied in a different direction, with the final coat going on the thinnest (we call it the money coat as it is what gives it the smooth feeling).

Combine the turbine hvlp with the 3m PPS system and you can literally spray upside down in all the weird angles needed to perform this job. I also never use a rag twice. The reasoning behind this is even if you took your rags home and washed them, you still risk having trace amounts of silicone on the rag and contaminating a future job.

FAILED PREVIOUS COATING

If you come into a job that has a failed previous coating, you must do due diligence to remove it. Use a bare razor blade to scrape all that you can, then hand sand and blend in the remainder. Use autobody bondo, or fiberglass epoxy resin to achieve a seamless appearance. Alot of performing a bathtub repair transfers directly over from the autobody industry, so treat it as if you were painting a car high gloss.

A typical bathtub re-glaze should take 3 hrs from walking in the door to walking out. Schedule it for four hours to accomodate drive time. Once you get good, you can get down to 2 hrs.

Obviously this is the basic rundown, and there are a lot of tricks I didn't mention, but hey...I can't tell you everything now can I?:jester:


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

CApainter said:


> There's got to be more prep then just a paint remover? The baked enamel finish is too hard and smooth to apply even a thermoset coating to and expect it to stick.


If he used any thing else I missed it since I was supposed to be painting :whistling2: and not watching the tub get prepped.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

driftweed said:


> O.k. I will see if I can help you understand this since you are curious.
> 
> Obviously silicone is the enemy of the paint, so you have to do your due diligence in the prep phase to eliminate all traces of it. I use an LED flashlight from ALL directions/angles combined with a razor blade to scrape the upper flat portion of the tub. This is after I use a 5 i 1 tool to remove the bulk of the caulk. If possible, I use a 2500 lumen floodlight to assist in finding any and all imperfections.
> 
> ...


This guy took 6 hours from start to finish. I will take a pic today of the tub.


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

My personal best was 4 fiberglass shower stalls in a 12 hour day. Of course, they had 2 in each unit, & both units were neighbors.

700 * 4 = $2800 in a 12 hr day.


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## Mathiasian (Nov 26, 2014)

*Amershield*

PPG has Amershield which would work great if the surfaces are prepared correctly. Getting the other coating off is first. then I would etch with muriatic acid, and neutralizing with ammonia. Spray the product with HVLP or Conventional. Use PPE's for sure, and always add acid to water, not the other way around!!!


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## DunriteNJ (Aug 15, 2014)

Driftweed has the process down pat- Topkote is way ahead of any other system in its process and products

Not ideal for the occasional job- spray techniques definitely take practice!

As others posted the chems are brutal- especially if you have to strip a tub that had already been finished


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## ttalbon (Aug 6, 2009)

I was wondering would prepping and powder coating be an option?


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

ttalbon said:


> I was wondering would prepping and powder coating be an option?


I guess that could be but no way in hell am I helping move a claw foot tub neither are the HO's. We do have an ex powder coater on our crew I might ask him.


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## B-n-L Enterprises (Sep 10, 2014)

I do know a guy of of Hammond Indiana that does this. 
But I and alot guys do not recommend this because it is not re-glazing as the guys that do this claim it is.
Porcelain needs to be fired at 3500 degrees. 
What these guys do is paint it with special paint.
But over time, this paint breaks lose and traps itself in the P trap. Sometime rodding is impossible with this stuff depending how thick it is and how long it been pealing and getting stuck in the P trap. 

If the place is a slab, it means total removal of the tub. If its a finihed basement with no access panels, you must start making holes to access the P trap providing it got caught in the P trap. 

Sometimes they make it past the P trap, get stuck in a different part of the drains run and cause a slow build up there. 

This is more of an issue with cast iron drain pipe, but it does happen with PVC if the clog happens at a joint. 

I would stay away from this process and replace the tub if possible. 

I understand there is pros & cons to every situation, but if avoidable, this process is not as good as you think.


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## B-n-L Enterprises (Sep 10, 2014)

cdpainting said:


> I guess that could be but no way in hell am I helping move a claw foot tub neither are the HO's. We do have an ex powder coater on our crew I might ask him.


Big Sledge hammer, bust it many pieces and haul away piece by piece. 

Done it a few times.


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

If you wait until it is peeling, you have waited too long. This is a maintenance thing. When the finish is dull or blistering it need attention ASAP, or the clogged drains start happening. However, when I get them they have begun peeling from some slack jawed idiot who thinks he can hit it with shellac primer, and (oil, latex, automotive, etc...) paint.

We tape the drain, scrape away, hand sand the works. No different than doing a lead job. If it becomes a total strip, we chemically strip with a stripper that is safe for drains.

Please don't let the uneducated mass represent the educate minority. That seems to be my biggest hurdle right now getting this service off the ground. Educating people that indeed you do have to maintain the coating on your bathtub so that you do not have to replace it. 

I promise you, if you were to glaze your tub every ten years vs having to remodel it every fifteen from you would still come out a winner $$ wise. People just dont know that this needs to be done, and are more than willing to just go ahead and replace the tub.

Well, here's a scenario for you: You have a fiber glass tub that was installed when the house was built 50 years ago. In order to remove this tub, you have to remove the vanity, and toilet. Now, its going to take a minute or two and several thousands of dollars to accomplish this. 

I see this every day. I fix the crack and resurface the tub for $800 and am out same day (with a 4 hour catalyst you can use your tub THAT NITE). Can you say the same about replacing the tub? Nope because at minimum you will have to wait for caulk to cure.

You will NEVER hear a plumber advocate resurfacing. I have this talk with property managers all the time. The average cost to replace the tub (demo, drywall, installation, etc...) is roughly $2000. Do you think a plumber is honestly going to say: well you can save $1600 if you just reglaze it....:no:

The same as you would not hear a professional painter say: well you could save $1500 if you went to bud's hardware and bought the $15/gal paint. You don't need that expensive sherwin williams (or Ben moore) paint.:blink:

Do you re-plumb your house because well it has cpvc pipes, and everyone uses pex now? Or do you use common sense and not expose your pipes to freezing conditions (and thus AVOIDING replacement)? 

It's apples and oranges. People want to get picky on the word reglazing, and use that as the starting point for calling the whole industry hacks and unnecessary.

What if reglazer's did the same thing with painters using the term "latex" paint?


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## fortunerestoration (Mar 6, 2014)

Acrylic latex spray paint is best suited for bathtubs. But you need to do cleansing work, which includes scrubbing with a good cleanser, very thoroughly before pulling the trigger.


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