# Jack Pauhl



## 1963 Sovereign (Dec 14, 2011)

I hate to sound like a stalker,but I spent four hours reading up on his website,and it seems he knows what the heck he is talking about! how long has he been painting ? how old is this guy?


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

He is an enigma.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

an enigma wrapped in a riddle shrouded in mystery


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

roolerboy said:


> I hate to sound like a stalker,but I spent four hours reading up on his website,and it seems he knows what the heck he is talking about! how long has he been painting ? how old is this guy?


Hello. Welcome to PT. I've been painting 30+ years, professionally for 25. Grew up painting with family rentals, businesses. My hair is not grey. You spent 4 hours reading up? What type of things were you most interested in?


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## prototype66 (Mar 13, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


> What type of things were you most interested in?


What are you wearing?:whistling2:


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

When I first joined PT, I looked at JP as a "know-it-all production machine" and let myself be influenced by those thoughts for a while. One day I took some time, re-read some of his posts, visited and read his web-site blog, and figured I did him a great dis-service.

Agree or disagree, Jack "puts it out there", with some reviews and photos and vids to back up his claims. I still think he's a production machine though LOL. Though objectively, I think PT is damn fortunate to have Jack as a contributing member.


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## prototype66 (Mar 13, 2008)

Yea Jack is a wealth of info and the site is a huge source as well , Thanks for that my friend!:thumbup:


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> My hair is not grey.


Mine totally is. It gives me street cred. Plus chicks dig it. 

:laughing:


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> Mine totally is. It gives me street cred. Plus chicks dig it.
> 
> :laughing:


These guys told me painter whites give you street cred so I go out and buy some whites for the first time in 20 some years of wearing jeans and you come along and tell me dying my hair grey is all I needed to do?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> These guys told me painter whites give you street cred so I go out and buy some whites for the first time in 20 some years of wearing jeans and you come along and tell me dying my hair grey is all I needed to do?


Forget all about that macho shart and learn how to play guitar. :jester:


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

roolerboy said:


> ....Ever use grahams ceramic flat? what did anyone think of it ?


No Grahams here.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

vermontpainter said:


> Forget all about that macho shart and learn how to play guitar. :jester:


:yes::whistling2:


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

roolerboy said:


> Wow,I bring up a veritable fountain of knowledge that I chose to discuss,


I think some people are overwhelmed by the fountain. The fountain runneth over.

I do have a good amount of respect for Jack Pauhl, and for many of his procedures, and product reviews.

But in my opinion, his systems tend to be overly complicated in a lot of cases. Which is certainly better than a painter who pays too little attention to methodology.

In my opinion Jack Pauhl is at a stage that I was once at ( well not quite as much ), where a certain fanaticism for procedure, is actually bogging him down.

Sometimes it seems like Jack Pauhl is implementing procedure, for procedure's sake.

***

However, from what I have seen, his results always appear to be top notch, and he achieves those results in a systematic, accurately calculated manner.

*I would assume his customers are very happy.*

***

And what I respect about Jack Pauhl, is that drive for quantification, and for always achieving the next level of efficiency, or analysis of products, tools, and methodology, is an *excellent trait.*

It will most likely lead to him being one of the most knowledgeable, and formidable tradespersons in his region, or winding up in a padded room. One of the two.



***

In the mean time, you might be interested in his custom line of signature climate controlled humidors for storing tape on the job site.

They come with three independent climate zones...

one for 3m 2090 long mask.

one for 3m 2010 general purpose.

and one for 3m 2080 delicate surface.

Of course settings may vary depending on altitude of the job site, or the season in which the tape was manufactured.

Also, it is beneficial to remove the end cap from your caulking tubes and whisk the caulk with a teflon whisk to defibrillate the purging radius. 

*And don't forget to use a magnet to align the oxide in your sandpaper to true north!*

:whistling2:


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

I love you too, JP...just not as much as rooler.

and I'm sure you'll agree...there are several, if not quite a few.. "fountains of knowledge" (myself excluded of course) on this board.

I know who some of them are, but I'm not mentioning any names, cuz I'm saving it for my "PT's Fountain of Knowledge" thread.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

LC Im driving but I'll finish reading your post later. I've never talked about the core system at any length and the methodology behind it but your perception is dead on with many others, even ones I work side by side with until it's understood. Largely in part because it's very unconventional and backwards. 

No question the sum of it all is complex simplicity which leads to pure efficiency by design. 

I'll post a bit more later on your post.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

My complaint with J/P is that all the photos and videos I see are in these perfectly straight/square new homes. It's easy peasy cutting trim that is perfectly flat to a flat wall, or rolling with an 18" that doesn't leave voids in the middle due to lack of contact on wavy walls. And when I do get a newer construction like home, it's always filled with furniture that's never further than a 3' pathway around the perimeter - if I am lucky. None of the jobs I ever get are so straight forward.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Is re-priming MDF more work or more efficient?


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

plainpainter said:


> My complaint with J/P is that all the photos and videos I see are in these perfectly straight/square new homes. It's easy peasy cutting trim that is perfectly flat to a flat wall, or rolling with an 18" that doesn't leave voids in the middle due to lack of contact on wavy walls.


I don't see any problem with that.

If Jack Pauhl's market is all new construction, or remodels where he has an empty new house to work in all the time, then that will be where his expertise develops.

There are companies that NEVER do repaints. And their systems are all geared for the environment you mentioned.

And there are companies who ONLY do repaints, and their systems all geared for a re-paint environment.

I don't see anything wrong with jack Pauhl's knowledge being specialized in one area or another.

He has probably never painted a 747 either. I am not going to hold that against him.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> Is re-priming MDF more work or more efficient?


 depends, will your paint of choice cover in two coats over factory primer or not? Usually all the pencil and pen marks written all over the stuff by the carpenters makes priming a no-brainer.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

Last Craftsman said:


> I don't see any problem with that.
> 
> If Jack Pauhl's market is all new construction, or remodels where he has an empty new house to work in all the time, then that will be where his expertise develops.
> 
> ...


 
Well, I disagree - he comes off as this guru for painters, like the right system, the right products, the right tools, etc. And if you don't follow his recommendations, then you are an inefficient contractor. I believe an integral part of his 'systems' approach is the actual home he is painting. My production rates literally double whenever I am in a newer construction home, especially one that is not occupied. In the majority of the work I do - an 18" roller will be less productive than a 9" roller for instance. A less productive brush in his setting is absolutely needed to 'fake' a straight line with all the bumps and crevices and waviness I have to deal with. You paint a 19th century home - and you absolutely need a bunch of flagging to get through the day. 

Whenever I paint a newly built addition or something - I feel like I am ripping off the customer, then the minute I am painting an adjoining hallway or bedroom in the same home with the same rates - I feel like I am hardly breaking even.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

It cracks me up when people think nc is easy. Lolol


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

In a rare, lucid, on topic kind of way, I would like to add to the op of this thread that painting requires a pleasing blend of art and science, more so than the other 17 building trades for the most part. 

It is impossible to prescribe one system that is best for all situations. 

It is very possible to describe systems that work well for specific situations.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

I think many here feel threatened by Jack. 

IMO I hate the fake name and the undying support for Behr. These two things alone tarnish much of his credibility and it really is too bad. 

I enjoy his site and always read all of his posts. He is a must read member of PT. I appreciate his insight and his willingness to always want to think outside of the box to find a better way to complete a task, even if I do not agree with it. 

PT and our industry is better for guys like Jack who take the time to take pictures, post reviews and to give their opinions on methods, systems and products. 

Keep being Jack, Jack.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Steve Richards said:


> I love you too, JP...just not as much as rooler.
> 
> and I'm sure you'll agree...there are several, if not quite a few.. "fountains of knowledge" (myself excluded of course) on this board.
> 
> I know who some of them are, but I'm not mentioning any names, cuz I'm saving it for my "PT's Fountain of Knowledge" thread.


Good new sig line there JP.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Last Craftsman said:


> I think some people are overwhelmed by the fountain. The fountain runneth over.
> 
> I do have a good amount of respect for Jack Pauhl, and for many of his procedures, and product reviews.
> 
> ...


OMG you are funny LC!

I think a lot of people here have a great sense of humor, and it is often an entertaining and even occasionally educational adventure logging onto this website!


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Oh and yes I love reAding JP's blogs. I tend to be very analytical in my approach to painting and appreciate his detailed writings. The only thing that bugs me is (I hope you're reAding this JP) when he puts out the teaser article but doesn't follow up with the meat of the article. Or maybe I'm just not connecting to the right links. Keep up the good work JP!


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## 1963 Sovereign (Dec 14, 2011)

Wow,a new guy stirred up da pot this much?I love dis place !!!!


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

plainpainter said:


> My complaint with J/P is that all the photos and videos I see are in these perfectly straight/square new homes. It's easy peasy cutting trim that is perfectly flat to a flat wall, or rolling with an 18" that doesn't leave voids in the middle due to lack of contact on wavy walls. And when I do get a newer construction like home, it's always filled with furniture that's never further than a 3' pathway around the perimeter - if I am lucky. None of the jobs I ever get are so straight forward.


We do more repaints now than NC about 80/20 split. We were on this s-hole job today. Because we have a system for everything, we simply made the s-hole like new again because its quick and easy to do. 

You know the jobs... not a single glimpse of newness anywhere. Every inch has something that needs cleaned up.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

plainpainter said:


> depends, will your paint of choice cover in two coats over factory primer or not? Usually all the pencil and pen marks written all over the stuff by the carpenters makes priming a no-brainer.


If all you were paid for was two coats over MDF then when would it benefit you to apply a 3rd at your cost?


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> If all you were paid for was two coats over MDF then when would it benefit you to apply a 3rd at your cost?


 what is this japanese haiku? If they are only paying for two coats, then that's what they'll get.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

plainpainter said:


> Well, I disagree - he comes off as this guru for painters, like the right system, the right products, the right tools, etc. And if you don't follow his recommendations, then you are an inefficient contractor. I believe an integral part of his 'systems' approach is the actual home he is painting. My production rates literally double whenever I am in a newer construction home, especially one that is not occupied. In the majority of the work I do - an 18" roller will be less productive than a 9" roller for instance. A less productive brush in his setting is absolutely needed to 'fake' a straight line with all the bumps and crevices and waviness I have to deal with. You paint a 19th century home - and you absolutely need a bunch of flagging to get through the day.
> 
> Whenever I paint a newly built addition or something - I feel like I am ripping off the customer, then the minute I am painting an adjoining hallway or bedroom in the same home with the same rates - I feel like I am hardly breaking even.


Dan, how do you suppose I am able to do with 2 guys today what I did with 11-14 guys twenty years ago? Same ol NC. That is an insane number of guys to no longer need. Not four, five or six guys less but 12 guys Dan. That is no BS. I also saved another PC over 150k last year using the same systems. I thought it was cool when I reduced it by a couple guys. What could you do with 12 guys today. I have not worked with a PC yet that hasn't been able to reduce his crew in half. For me to walk on a new PC's job and lay down a few simple tweaks instantly saves these guy thousands. No joke. 

So that would make me a magical guru, Dan. I'm not pushing my systems on anyone, I am simply sharing what I can and explain what my systems do for me and for other contractors. Thats all. I care less if you believe it or not or use them or laugh at them. We all do what works for us.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> Dan, how do you suppose I am able to do with 2 guys today what I did with 11-14 guys twenty years ago? Same ol NC. That is an insane number of guys to no longer need. Not four, five or six guys less but 12 guys Dan. That is no BS. I also saved another PC over 150k last year using the same systems. I thought it was cool when I reduced it by a couple guys. What could you do with 12 guys today. I have not worked with a PC yet that hasn't been able to reduce his crew in half. For me to walk on a new PC's job and lay down a few simple tweaks instantly saves these guy thousands. No joke.
> 
> So that would make me a magical guru, Dan. I'm not pushing my systems on anyone, I am simply sharing what I can and explain what my systems do for me and for other contractors. Thats all. I care less if you believe it or not or use them or laugh at them. We all do what works for us.


JP

Anyone who gets out of bed in the morning, goes to work and makes good money is subject to just plain scrutiny and disdain.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Damon T said:


> Oh and yes I love reAding JP's blogs. I tend to be very analytical in my approach to painting and appreciate his detailed writings. The only thing that bugs me is (I hope you're reAding this JP) when he puts out the teaser article but doesn't follow up with the meat of the article. Or maybe I'm just not connecting to the right links. Keep up the good work JP!


Guilty as charged. It bothers me too. I have over 160 blog drafts sitting in wait to be completed. My spare time is limited lately and some of it I'm burning up here.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> Guilty as charged. It bothers me too. I have over 160 blog drafts sitting in wait to be completed. My spare time is limited lately and some of it I'm burning up here.


Dan has plenty of time and has good writing skills. Would you consider?


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

NEPS.US said:


> I think many here feel threatened by Jack.
> 
> IMO I hate the fake name and the undying support for Behr. These two things alone tarnish much of his credibility and it really is too bad.
> 
> ...


Thanks. There is nothing currently in writing to explain why the pen name and jack branding etc. Its a PITA at times but it serves more purpose than I care to share atm. Had some lengthy discussions with others who use them in similar situation but reasons to keep it as-is outweigh reasons to change, at this time anyway. Both names have been linked from day 1 intentionally right down to the spelling of Pauhl. It was actually a lengthy thought out decision making process to use it.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> JP
> 
> Anyone who gets out of bed in the morning, goes to work and makes good money is subject to just plain scrutiny and disdain.


Oooohhh
_Very_ punny:thumbsup:



NEPS said:


> I think many here feel threatened by Jack.
> 
> IMO I hate the fake name and the undying support for Behr. These two things alone tarnish much of his credibility and it really is too bad.
> 
> ...


Well said fella. I agree wholeheartedly.

I personally subscribe to the aaron61 mantra of, "Boy, painters sure can over think sh!t cant they?" line of thought.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

So anyway LC, to reply more to your post.

I've found in order to make things failsafe there needs to be more things performed than relying solely on the paint. I've also found that performing more tasks produce faster results of higher quality. This simply means while everything seems complex, its rather simple. The core systems (system of all sub-systems) depends on a fluid interaction between them all so everything is in sync and everything works together. The more variables you can remove, the more efficient you are. Period. 

Easy example: 5 types of MDF on the market. Which technically should be finished 5 different ways (for best results). Coming up with one system to cover all 5 types was rather complex but the fact it does, its simple. Basically, you need a product and system that will allow all 5 types to be finished with equal results. 

So this method is simply repeated over everything you can comes across, not just MDF. 

Most would agree that going into a NC house with MDF and painting everything twice with finish would be quicker than painting it all 3 times. Thats not true at all. In fact, it takes far less time, far far less time to do it 3 times vs 2 and thats because the system at its core is so damn complex that it simply eliminates almost all variables allowing 3 coats to be applied in less time, less money. Its more paint too btw but the labor savings is substantial.


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## Ultimate (Mar 20, 2011)

jack pauhl said:


> So anyway LC, to reply more to your post.
> 
> I've found in order to make things failsafe there needs to be more things performed than relying solely on the paint. I've also found that performing more tasks produce faster results of higher quality. This simply means while everything seems complex, its rather simple. The core systems (system of all sub-systems) depends on a fluid interaction between them all so everything is in sync and everything works together. The more variables you can remove, the more efficient you are. Period.
> 
> ...


linky please.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


> Guilty as charged. It bothers me too. I have over 160 blog drafts sitting in wait to be completed. My spare time is limited lately and some of it I'm burning up here.


Yes, be careful. This site can eats tons of time! I applaud you for all you have written, you obviously have a passion for it. I could probably develop lots of great systems with the time I spend surfing on this site, but then I would miss all the fun on this site while trying to see what kind of systems everyone else has come up with.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

FatherandSonPainting said:


> linky please.


Its not published as a whole, not yet, thats why I get so much heat on PT about it. I can only talk so much about it.

What I can bring to light from real life working with other PC's is how difficult it is to grasp doing more tasks (more steps) to achieve less work. Its unconventional. Everyone immediately tries shutting me down the minute I bring in an (additional) step because these guys are thinking that extra step is going to take x-amount of time and product. Its hard to get past what you know and put that in the hands of another. It simply goes against everything these guys were taught. 

Its no secret a large part of my success in the system is due to no usage of SW product. Perhaps the largest single rider on the system is the capability of the product used. If I found that with SW, trust me, I'd use it. I'd use anything from anywhere at any cost to maintain what we do today. I don't play favorites at all and I hold no loyalty to brand the minute my products go south on me. I'll be hunting down the next best thing, real fast. Thats how i ended up on the other side of the door at SW.

So its always said or at least perceived that PRODUCTION = POOR QUALITY. My success comes directly from doing more steps to achieve higher failsafe results in far less time vs what others are doing. There are literally hundreds of variables on any job, NC especially. What if you eliminate ALL but one of them? When one brand of drywall gets finished the same way as another brand of drywall with the exact same results. Or finishing 5 types of MDF exactly the same, in the same amount of time with the exact same end result. These are things I focus on because when those variables are gone, its a beautiful world painting stuff.

When you show someone how to paint a NC house in 21 man hours total, its a little bit hard to believe at first glance especially for the


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Damon T said:


> Yes, be careful. This site can eats tons of time! I applaud you for all you have written, you obviously have a passion for it. I could probably develop lots of great systems with the time I spend surfing on this site, but then I would miss all the fun on this site while trying to see what kind of systems everyone else has come up with.


I certainly appreciate the feedback and thanks. I wish I could publish articles all day 365. There is never any shortage of topics to write about with me. The minute I walk on a job I am snapping pics and jotting notes to my phone. Everywhere I drive, same thing, taking notes, adding to drafts etc. Thats how I ended up with so many blog drafts, great stuff too, not yet talked about on the site.

This year was somewhat odd, we got hammered come fall and normally Jan drops dead for me which I always look forward to for the break but not this time, the schedule was packed and jobs got pushed around all over this year and Jan thru April is looking rather busy as the NC end is picking up again. 

The plan is to cover more on the systems end this year more over products. I'm working on one now on the best way to distribute paint on a wall from a technical point of view. Thought about writing a small post on how many nail holes a jar of putty will fill. :thumbsup:


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

plainpainter said:


> Let it be known, I have no respect for you either. You and your Behr-o-philes, and telling contractors that paint is better for priming than primer is. Eventually more guys will wake up.


Let it be known, I am not the guy to challenge on product capabilities. Bring it.


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


> What I can bring to light from real life working with other PC's is how difficult it is to grasp doing more tasks (more steps) to achieve less work. Its unconventional. Everyone immediately tries shutting me down the minute I bring in an (additional) step because these guys are thinking that extra step is going to take x-amount of time and product. Its hard to get past what you know and put that in the hands of another. It simply goes against everything these guys were taught.



This is where you start losing peoples attention/respect Jack.

My reason for questioning your methods is because I look at *some* of the methods you advocate, and I can either do them faster, better, a combination of both, or I see problems with your presentation and the way you arrive at your production rates.

For example, I watched a video link from your blog entitles "formatting the cut" or something similar.

You showed how to cut in a ceiling line, and it implied a certain speed per linear foot.

The *problem* with your demonstration, was that you had *already cut in the first coat.*

What you were illustrating was the cutting in the *second coat*, and I am 1 million percent positive, that you were not cutting all the way to the corner, and that the *first coat*, you cut in took longer to than the one you showed in order to get the paint all the way to the corner.

I saw the same flaw in your presentation when you cut in the side of a clear finish casing. You were painting white over white. So there was no way with the camera set 12 feet away to see how close the actual line was.

And of course when cutting next to clear trim there are variables depending on how much of a gap there is between the trim and the wall, or especially whether or not the gap has been caulked with clear.

*So when you post your "production rates", I and every other experienced painter take them with a grain of salt.* 

Your "two pass" cutting in ceiling demonstration would have been better suited if it had been done to illustrate an important strategy, which is that the second cut does not usually have to be brought as exactly in to the corner as the first coat.

That is a mistake a lot of new painters make is they waste time on the second cut trying to bring it exactly into the corner, and they run a further risk when doing that of going over the line, which would then require touching up in the ceiling color.

But you completely missed a good opportunity to make that important point, and would have been a MUCH MORE valuable lesson that you could have imparted using that same demonstration.

In my opinion, your current perception of your own knowledge and abilities is really not accurate.

I watched this video of you demonstrating how to tape a baseboard.

And all I can say is:

:blink:

1. I have never needed to keep my individual rolls of tape in a ziplock bag.

Yes, sometimes humidity or coldness can affect tape. You talked about eliminating variables so that one solution works in all situations. I agree.

I follow one simple procedure to care for tape. Don't let your tape freeze, or approach freezing, and don't let water get on it.

*Done.* I can do both of those things in a way that is just as easy as if I wasn't trying to pay attention to either.

So my procedure takes the same time as someone who doesn't pay attention to those issues.

But your procedure ADDS a variable.

Now you have to have ziplock bags for individual rolls of tape. And you have to take the tape in and out of the plastic bag. On it's own that doesn't seem like a big deal, but multiply that by several hundred OTHER unnecessary practices, and now over all procedure is bogged down, when it does not have to be.

2. DON'T BREAK YOUR TAPE INTO SECTIONS.

Just unroll the tape as you go along, pressing it down as you go along. Breaking the tape into "lengths you can work with" just complicates issues.

In your video you made the correct point ( when you are working with a segment of tape ) not to PULL on tape to hard because it will stretch it out, and make it difficult to achieve a straight line.

But the thing is, you can eliminate that problem all together by simply rolling the tape off as you work down the baseboard so only a few inches are exposed at one time.

And if one was to work with sections of tape, you committed a faux pa. Don't commit to pressing the ends down in their final location THEN press the middle down.

This has the tendency to cause the middle of the segment to be out of line with the ends of the segment, even when you are careful not stretch the tape. 

But again that entire concern is eliminated by simply rolling the tape off and pressing it down as you go along.

Furthermore, taping your trim in *segments*, causes an overlap at each segment that can cause problems where the segments overlap, it is more likely for paint to seep at the intersections, and where it is doubled up, the millage of the tape is higher which can affect the straightness of the line right there without extra diligence at the tape intersections.

And of course techniques for UNMASKING is an often overlooked issue in the trade, and procedures need to be tailored to make the unmasking process go efficiently just like the masking process.

I would much rather pull one piece of tape of a baseboard, than several "workable" sections.

I know if pressed down well, and pulled in the right direction you can often get multiple sections to come off as one. But it is very common for the chain to break and have to reach down again and start the process over.

And either way, you can eliminate that issue all together by *using one long piece of tape for the whole baseboard.*

That video of you taping that baseboard so inefficiently is from 2007. And I noticed you disabled the comments section in that particular video. Why did you do that?

I have known how to tape more efficiently than that since *1990/91*

And that is no exaggeration. So you do have things to learn yet. You are not the teacher of all other painters.

***

You said this:



jack pauhl said:


> Dan, how do you suppose I am able to do with 2 guys today what I did with 11-14 guys twenty years ago?


I can think of one possibility. That 20 years ago, when you first started, your methods were so far out of wack, that it took you 14 guys to do what should have only been taking 2 guys all along.

And finally after 20 years, you eliminated a lot of unnecessary, redundant, or unskilled practices.

I am not saying that is what happened, but it does provide a possible explanation for your new found production rates.

But I'll give you that you are more efficient than the majority of painters.

I have no doubt I could learn some things from you, and that everyone on this site could learn some things from you.

But that doesn't make you unique, because we ALL know some things, that other painters don't know.

That is just the simple reality people being exposed to different environments and circumstances.

***

I am going to be straight up and tell you what your greatest weakness is. And I have told you this in private, trying to be helpful, but you vehemently lobbied against it.

Your greatest weakness is your ego, and over inflated sense of your own greatness.

*Most experienced painters are put off by it.*

And it is not because of your incorrect assertion that you have the painting trade figured out to a vastly superior degree.

And I promise you, it will not matter how great of a technician you become, if you don't start making some serious strides in that regard, all of your acquired knowledge and skill won't be able to make up for the destruction that your ego and sense of greatness will cause to your success. 

Just some food for thought.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> Let it be known, I am not the guy to challenge on product capabilities. Bring it.


 Chew on this idea, "Jack", how about choose the products for the quality they deliver to a homeowner - and then charge fairly for whatever the production rate turns out to be. I think anyone who has ever used California 2010 trim paint can attest to the fact it is not easy to spread - yet the quality is absolutely insane.

If a homeowner wants Ben Moore Regal or Aura - I ain't going to try and dissuade them to use Behr instead because it satifies my insane production rates. I am going to charge fairly for the time it takes to apply. Painting is actually very simple. when you have bare or problem surfaces, you apply a primer. And you apply paint for topcoats. 

And oh yeah, if a brush doesn't hold enough paint, use a bigger damned brush!


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Last Craftsman said:


> This is where you start losing peoples attention/respect Jack.
> 
> My reason for questioning your methods is because I look at *some* of the methods you advocate, and I can either do them faster, better, a combination of both, or I see problems with your presentation and the way you arrive at your production rates.
> 
> ...


I sure get a lot of crap for sticking up for painters, pushing the limits for them, sharing alternative methods and looking out for them. Well, in reality I do it for me, but I share it with everyone.

I hope I clarified your misconceptions. Im the one to blame, I keep the details out of most everything I publish, especially videos. I like to keep those simple and self explanatory. Call me next time. I talk to many guys on PT.


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## 1963 Sovereign (Dec 14, 2011)

Kinda sorry I started this post,seems I stirred up a wasp nest of sorts.....


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

1963 Sovereign said:


> Kinda sorry I started this post,seems I stirred up a wasp nest of sorts.....


63

You may have missed some of the heat of the moment stuff that his since been cleaned out of the thread. 

This band of paintalk misfits has alot of history. 

Here is a thread from almost exactly a year ago where Dan (plain painter) was the one in love with Jack. 

A year later, its a classic case of the fine line between love and hate. 

Anyways, the link above contains about a dozen more pages of the the Jack Effect.


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## 1963 Sovereign (Dec 14, 2011)

Apparently I do not have permission to view that page,I am not in love with Jack,nor am I worried about production at all,Actually..I am a one man band and intend to stay that way ... Jack and others have some great posts that I can pick up a few pointers from and for that I am thankful.Seems some admire ,others dislike. So be it


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

1963 Sovereign said:


> Kinda sorry I started this post,seems I stirred up a wasp nest of sorts.....


You are fine, PT is like a large dysfunctional family, we have some personalities here that clash, we argue and fight and give each other a hard time, but for the most part, we get along pretty well!



1963 Sovereign said:


> Apparently I do not have permission to view that page,I am not in love with Jack,nor am I worried about production at all,Actually..I am a one man band and intend to stay that way ... Jack and others have some great posts that I can pick up a few pointers from and for that I am thankful.Seems some admire ,others dislike. So be it


We clean up the thread to get it back on topic, we have a special dumpster in the back section, like a second home for Bill!

Jack, like many others on the forum, spends time here to share his info, and he is passionate about the industry and improving it. Some may not agree, some may learn something new, that is the beauty of PT.


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## TERRY365PAINTER (Jul 26, 2009)

I don't know about you guys , but I have learned a lot of things from jack . From using a roller pan to the Picasso brush 
Or using Behr paint and seeing the results 
Of trying things new . What it takes me to paint a room to doing a drywall patch my 
Production rates are much faster . Crap just using a hair dryer for drywall patches 
Saves hours for me . The festool sanding system has changed everything . I have learned so much from just being painter 
And proud of paint talk . ... Crap let s all 
Meet at the PCda in feb . And have a big 
Fight then crap !!!


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

I gained some respect for JP in this thread...not that it matters to him or anyone else.
He kept his composure in the eye of the sh!tstorm...a lot better than I woulda

(still don't love him too much though)


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

TERRY365PAINTER said:


> I don't know about you guys , but I have learned a lot of things from jack . From using a roller pan to the Picasso brush
> Or using Behr paint and seeing the results
> Of trying things new . What it takes me to paint a room to doing a drywall patch my
> Production rates are much faster . Crap just using a hair dryer for drywall patches
> ...


Thanks Terry. It's when you take those few minor changes that you found some benefit in producing better results or quicker turn-around and then keep adding more and more. I get the impression some guys think production means working like a madman. 

Production to me is doing a task in a way that eliminates a major labor portion of the task by using certain products to arrive at the end result faster. Like the sandpaper pic I posted for example... if pass for pass Abranet produced a result faster than paper then you instantly achieved an end result faster with the same effort on the sanding pole and it was done more effectively which ultimately will yield nicer results.


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## JoseyWales (Jan 8, 2011)

I don't see what the big deal is here...I've tried many of Jack's techniques;some I like and some I don't...When we work with a new painter don't you try a new method of doing things that is suggested by the new guy?..Why not,what have you got to lose?..I'm always looking for new ways to get better and faster.

I appreciate the various tools that Jack has talked about in here along with the suggestions from the rest of the people posting in here...Dean actually turned me on to the Festool system about three years ago and I'm very grateful..

What I notice when I hire painters is that some are unwilling to try new techniques or new systems..They are set in their ways and are insulted when you suggest a new way of doing things..They probably just suffer from an inferiority complex or something...whatever..just my thoughts.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

JoseyWales said:


> What I notice when I hire painters is that some are unwilling to try new techniques or new systems..They are set in their ways and are insulted when you suggest a new way of doing things..They probably just suffer from an inferiority complex or something...whatever..just my thoughts.


That is my biggest challenge working with other PC's. Change is very difficult but the quicker they get things changed the faster they can see results, then it becomes addicting at what else can be changed to keep more money in their pockets. Its big money so there is more incentive once they see a few things working. Some things with my systems are not necessarily "preferred methods" of choice but rather a required methods to make it all come together. The reality of being efficient doesn't mean I get to do things the way I want.

Just for kicks... you mentioned some things you didn't like and because I have no clue what that might be... give me one example and I will give you the specific details as to why I do whatever it is. It might be interesting to uncover everything behind that particular method or product because there is no doubt it would be linked with a ton of other stuff to arrive at why I do or use it.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Jack does have a dilema when he posts here. His business is not painting houses (or at least not his long term goal). He wants to be a paid consultant. If he gives away his information in real detail, no one would need to pay to hire him. If he does not give out enough detail, he comes across as being vague, possibly misleading to some.

Maybe he needs to hire a PR consultant.

One thing I would like clarified is what kind of homes he was painting with a crew of 12+ painters. When I have done 6,000-8,000 sq. ft. Homes I would NEVER want that many painters on the inside at one time.


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## JoseyWales (Jan 8, 2011)

jack pauhl said:


> That is my biggest challenge working with other PC's. Change is very difficult but the quicker they get things changed the faster they can see results, then it becomes addicting at what else can be changed to keep more money in their pockets. Its big money so there is more incentive once they see a few things working. Some things with my systems are not necessarily "preferred methods" of choice but rather a required methods to make it all come together. The reality of being efficient doesn't mean I get to do things the way I want.
> 
> Just for kicks... you mentioned some things you didn't like and because I have no clue what that might be... give me one example and I will give you the specific details as to why I do whatever it is. It might be interesting to uncover everything behind that particular method or product because there is no doubt it would be linked with a ton of other stuff to arrive at why I do or use it.



OK,one example:


You like the adjustable 12"-18" frames from Wooster and I prefer the 12" frame from Wooster...I feel that I can get closer to a corner or frame with my 12".....I don't find it to be any more difficult to use than the Big Ben or the Wideboy...My 12" frame feels exactly like my 9" frame...You claim that it is too uneven and won't take the force needed...I disagree.


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## robladd (Nov 22, 2010)

Painted skyscrapers for over 25 years.
Swing Stages, Boom Lifts and Boatswain
Chairs.

2 men on a stage or lift or solo on a spider and bos'n chair with a rigger. 

I am use to working with 1 person or solo. most of the rig gangs I worked with were 4 men always for safety reasons. 1 crew checks the others rig before lift off.

In my decades of high work we ALWAYS use a 9" roller. No reason to work out of anything but a 5 er.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

DeanV said:


> One thing I would like clarified is what kind of homes he was painting with a crew of 12+ painters. When I have done 6,000-8,000 sq. ft. Homes I would NEVER want that many painters on the inside at one time.


Up to 5,500, custom homes across six builders, focus on two. Rarely was everyone pulled in to do one job.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

One must remember when others give their preferred ways of doing things that it is a system in which they have become comfortable, and usually refined over some time.

Some people will try it and like it immediately, some will need to grow into it before they realize the advantages, and others will NEVER be comfortable with it.

I have always found that the best systems for me are conglomerations of many different ones. Example: when covering switch plates I used to have a method that took me approx seven minutes per plate. At different meetings people showed how they did it. I now match the pattern as one person does, spray the adhesive like another, buy and use thin metal plates as suggested by yet another, and fold and cut by still another. My time has been cut to 4 to 5 minutes.

I suggest to all to have an open mind and TRY what others present. You may not like the WHOLE system, but I will guarantee you will pick up a nugget here and there that will enhance your production and quality.

As one fellow hanger says, "try it for 30 days"


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

JoseyWales said:


> OK,one example:
> 
> 
> You like the adjustable 12"-18" frames from Wooster and I prefer the 12" frame from Wooster...I feel that I can get closer to a corner or frame with my 12".....I don't find it to be any more difficult to use than the Big Ben or the Wideboy...My 12" frame feels exactly like my 9" frame...You claim that it is too uneven and won't take the force needed...I disagree.


Right but do you mean 14"? For my rolling style or speed the 14" fixed frame flexes too much so I prefer the adjustable. If I'm rolling, its typically an 18 though. If Wooster has a 12" then I was not aware of it. No doubt i'm rough on rolling which not coincidentally is contributed by the limitations of current roller cover designs where I am forced to apply unnecessary pressure on the frame to take full advantage of the load I took to the wall. My roller cover designs are made of two components, not one spun or woven fabric like every single cover on our market today. 

I came up with this really cool frame design inspired by the rigidity of little giant ladders for an 18 open-end thats as rigid as rolling with dual arms. Nobody cares, thats why we can still buy the exact same tools today as we did 20+ years ago. 

Wish you had a better example for me to go off. Some of these things I talk about are tied tightly to the system but the 14" or (12") not so much. But thanks Josey.


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## JoseyWales (Jan 8, 2011)

jack pauhl said:


> Right but do you mean 14"? For my rolling style or speed the 14" fixed frame flexes too much so I prefer the adjustable. If I'm rolling, its typically an 18 though. If Wooster has a 12" then I was not aware of it. No doubt i'm rough on rolling which not coincidentally is contributed by the limitations of current roller cover designs where I am forced to apply unnecessary pressure on the frame to take full advantage of the load I took to the wall. My roller cover designs are made of two components, not one spun or woven fabric like every single cover on our market today.
> 
> I came up with this really cool frame design inspired by the rigidity of little giant ladders for an 18 open-end thats as rigid as rolling with dual arms. Nobody cares, thats why we can still buy the exact same tools today as we did 20+ years ago.
> 
> Wish you had a better example for me to go off. Some of these things I talk about are tied tightly to the system but the 14" or (12") not so much. But thanks Josey.



My bad...yes a 14"


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Steve Richards said:


> I gained some respect for JP in this thread...not that it matters to him or anyone else.
> He kept his composure in the eye of the sh!tstorm...a lot better than I woulda
> 
> (still don't love him too much though)


He knows if you've been good or bad, so be good for heavens sake!


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## TERRY365PAINTER (Jul 26, 2009)

So are you guys using the 14 with the Wooster adjustable frame or the 14 fixed frame ? I like the fixed frame cuz you roll
Real close to corners and such .


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Bender said:


> He knows if you've been good or bad, so be good for heavens sake![/QUOTE
> 
> JP does exist, unlike Kris Kringle.


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## JoseyWales (Jan 8, 2011)

TERRY365PAINTER said:


> So are you guys using the 14 with the Wooster adjustable frame or the 14 fixed frame ? I like the fixed frame cuz you roll
> Real close to corners and such .


Fixed 14" Wooster for me...(Jack doesn't like them).


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

To all who read this post, sorry it takes up so much room, I can't figure out how to post a link to video, without the software automatically embedding the video, and the image of the video. I tried several different ways.



jack pauhl said:


> No problem questioning my methods but its best to understand them first. I'm not convinced you do understand.


I understand the techniques I have seen. I also understand that as long as you have been posting here, your claims are never backed up. And that many, many, experienced painters have had a significant issue with how you come across as being the best painter by leaps and bounds, yet you don't back up your claims.

And before PaintTalk implemented a policy of trying to keep the peace, you got HAMMERED on a regular basis. I was actually one of the only ones that said anything good about you, I have always tried to post anything good there was to say about you.



jack pauhl said:


> It was not implied.


It comes across that way. In fact I just looked at the comments, and other people mentioned *the same thing that I did*. What do ya' know.



jack pauhl said:


> I showed cutting 5 feet in whatever time that took. This was not a video to show how fast I can paint. I paint faster than that video.


Ok. Well now is your chance to *prove that. You say you are a no BS guy. So show us.*

Here is the video that you said you can cut faster than.






Do a video of you cutting faster than that, on the FIRST COAT, use a DIFFERENT color than what you are going over, and *get up close with the camera so people can see the line.*



jack pauhl said:


> My production rates should not be concluded by a 19 sec video.


I was not concluding your production rates by watching one video, I was showing how one video for a specific aspect of painting did not properly demonstrate your rate for cutting in ceilings.



jack pauhl said:


> LC, I am a no BS guy. That should be evident. I cut bare mud just as fast and sharp as one with a coat of flat on it.


To my opinion it is not evident that you are no BS guy.

Back when you showed the "how to use an 18 inch roller" video, you prefaced it by laying down the decree that "no one question you about this video".

So you showed the video, and several people including myself pointed out inadequacies in the way that you used the roller, and you came back on with the retort that you *TOLD US not to question you, but that we did any way.*

And you never did address the points people made, you instead claimed the video was not trying to show, how to use an 18 inch roller, but was tying to show something else.

I honestly do not have the opinion that you are a no BS guy.



jack pauhl said:


> I picked up a new camera that does some amazingly clear photos and video. I'll be sure to rework that video cutting the line on bare mud just for you. I wouldn't want any misconceptions floating around.


Well you could have showed the line up close with your old camera, but either way, but ok, lets see you cutting the lines with the new camera.

Use a color that is DIFFERENT than what you are going over. Be it mud or flat paint.

Show the uncut line up close, then set the camera on the tripod, and show you cutting the line, then get the camera again and show the line up close. Slowly run the camera along the entire line so we can see the line.

Do this for a ceiling as well.



jack pauhl said:


> But just because I can cut fast doesn't say anything at all about the time it actually takes to do a job. Im kind of surprised you see it that way.


The speed you can cut in doesn't have NOTHING to do with how fast you complete a job. Cutting in is ONE COMPONENT of completing a job. So it does have SOMETHING to do with how fast you complete a job. Does it not?

What I did, was show an example, of how your presentations imply speed in a way that is not accurate.

I am surprised you DON'T see that.



jack pauhl said:


> I dont paint that way. My cuts that are dependent upon two coats on the ceiling line are straightened by a cut in the opposite direction tighter to the ceiling than the first. Thats just my style of cut.


I understand that method. I used to do it that way. You split the difference between the first and second coat, and the system relies on both coats in order to be complete. And just so you know I have met other painters who are totally familiar with this concept.

It is not any revolution unique to your system.



jack pauhl said:


> How so LC, are you implying I don't know how much money I can save a PC or myself using my methods?


I think your process for determining how much money you can save your self might be circular and flawed in the sense that you may not have been doing things efficiently in the first place.

As far as saving other contractors money, I am not impressed by that.

I see contractors all the time who have ingrained habits that cost them money, and they have always done it that way.

They still manage to be successful enough to make a living so they don't know that those ingrained habits are hurting them.

I have worked for 11 DIFFERENT contractors on and off through the years.

I have learned A LOT by working for so many different people as opposed to just one or two. They all have techniques for certain tasks that are faster and better than other painters. I have taken the best of all of them, and invented a lot of my own.

Every time I worked for a different contractor there were SEVERAL key elements of painting that they did not do as efficiently as as some of the other contractors I had worked for. I was able to make a direct A/B comparison.

I am not impressed by your claim that you save other contractors money.

I think that A LOT of the experienced painters who belong to these forums could save other contractors money by telling them things to improve on.

We ALL know some things that other contractors don't know.



jack pauhl said:


> Why do u think tape comes wrapped in plastic from the store? Or why does FrogTape come in tupperware?


Because the manufacturer can't guarantee what will happen from the time it leaves their plant, until the time it gets into the painters hands.

Beacuse there are painters that will actually LEAVE THEIR TAPE IN THE RAIN, in the back of an open pick up truck.

And yes humidity plays a role.

Do YOU not believe me when I tell you that simply keep your tape stock at room temperature, then driving it to the jobsite and keeping it dry and warm is all you need to do for tape to function without problems.

I very, very rarely have a problem with tape using this method. To such a degree, I am convinced that once or twice a year, a bad roll just comes along.

Besides, once you unwrap tape, IT GETS USED. Of course you are going to have couple partials left over on every job. Again just keep them warm and out of the rain, and you can use them first thing on your next job, and everything is fine.

NO INDIVIDUAL ZIPLOCK BAGS NECESSARY.

I know that for a fact.



jack pauhl said:


> My runs are continuous and perfectly pieced and cut square so a room can be pulled from one location in one continuous pull.


That is not what you are doing in THIS VIDEO: 






jack pauhl said:


> You are looking at an old video. I use the TA-20. My systems change constantly.


So you admit, that at that time in 2007, when you would argue that your method for taping base was the best, that you in fact did not know the best way to tape base?

That video is from 2007. But at the TIME you would have argued that is the best way to tape base. You ALWAYS CLAIM TO KNOW THE BEST WAY.

So if you would have "consulted" a PC back then on how to tape, that would have been your method.

Now, if you did not know that was an inefficient method in 2007, what things do you *not know NOW?* Which of your methods that you use NOW do you insist are better than other painters, that you are wrong about?

I mean seriously, that video was 2007. And I have known how to tape more efficiently since around 1990.

And in 2007, while you were asserting your superiority over other painters, with that particular task at least, you were WAY, WAY behind.

*So, do you not suppose there are similar things NOW, that you are behind on, when you come on these forums and assert that all other painters are just jealous of you because you have everything figured out and they don't?*

JP, you don't just get the right to assert vast superiority over other painters, and for them to just ACCEPT that assertion.

Especially when you don't SHOW ANY EVIDENCE of your superiority, because "it's a secret system".

Sorry. The world does not work that way.



jack pauhl said:


> Why, that demonstration went perfectly the way I did it.


Lol. I know. That is my point exactly. You thought that was "perfect".



jack pauhl said:


> There is no way in hell you can lay tape down that way faster than a TA-20 can. Not possible, not even close.


But as recently as 2007 you thought THIS WAS THE BEST WAY TO TAPE: 









jack pauhl said:


> I freehand my cuts. Tape is for people with a) textured walls or b) can't cut a line straight or c) spraying


Is there a "D" category to explain the video of yours I just posted?

Besides, there are OTHER REASONS to tape, but you just DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE. You just THINK you know all the reasons people would use tape.

I GUARANTEE you, I could still _*teach you*_ a lot about taping. Just like I could have in 2007. 

And it is not because I "don't know how to cut"



jack pauhl said:


> Workable sections can be tied to a seamless pull. Did it that way for years on base.


I pre-empted this already. And in order to pull that off, it takes judicious attention to the areas where the tape intersects. Effort which is COMPLETELY WASTED, when one could instead USE ONE SOLID PIECE OF TAPE.



jack pauhl said:


> How is it you can arrive at how long it takes me to take using sections from that video? That blows me away LC. I did a demo on a piece and you assume some timeframe?


You are making excuses and doing gymnastics here Jack.

Besides, I "assume" a time frame based on the fact that you were BREAKING YOUR TAPE LINE INTO MULTIPLE SECTIONS, which I know for FACT is less efficient than using one continuous piece of tape.

And you had a hap hazard method for pressing the tape down where you committed to the location on both ends, then pressed down the middle.

Your demonstration was absurd all the way around. It was absurd in 2007, it was absurd in 1990.

So you do have things to learn yet. You are not the teacher of all other painters.



jack pauhl said:


> My methods were exactly like I see most painters paint today. No joke.


I guess we will all just have to take your word on that, won't we.

We will all have to take you at your word that at an equal quality level, you are 7 TIMES FASTER then the rest of us painters on this site.

Especially since you NEVER SHOW ANY EVIDENCE of this claim.



jack pauhl said:


> What would explain taking two exact houses and doing one in 100 hours less than the other?


I have no idea what it means when you say anything. I am being honest when I say that, not dramatic. I don't even know how to process that claim you just made, I don't know what the variables are, I don't know when your perceptions are skewed, there is no way for me to respond to that question, just like many of the things you say.



jack pauhl said:


> Thanks LC, I can't wait to meet one more efficient. That will be a rude awakening when I am pushing efficiency on them. Man, I'd feel like an ass if that happened.


Well you could have *paid me* to improve your production rates significantly on taping baseboards back in 2007. I don't know if you would have felt like an ass or not.

I have no doubt I could learn some things from you, and that everyone on this site could learn some things from you.

But that doesn't make you unique, because we ALL know some things, that other painters don't know.

That is just the simple reality people being exposed to different environments and circumstances.



jack pauhl said:


> I talk about real because there are tons of people like yourself who love to challenge me on everything.


I don't "love" to challenge you on "everything".

The fact is, you have made A LOT OF CLAIMS that you have not backed up.

You used to get HAMMERED REGULARLY on this website for that, and your general presentation of yourself. 

I actually defended you quite a bit. And I had several very diplomatic private exchanges with you trying to convince you to use a different approach so that people could see your strengths and not be bludgeoned by your weaknesses.

But PaintTalk implemented the kinder gentler PaintTalk, and the attacks from the general population have subsided.

In the lee of that development, you have been able to make your claims of vast superiority UNCHECKED. Now everyone is just supposed to accept it.

There is nothing different about you now, then back then, that the experienced painters on this website think about your claims of superiority.

It's just that now you have free reign to make them, and people given up on responding to them.



jack pauhl said:


> LC, im not here to impress, i'm not that kind of person.


No, you are just here to claim that you are the most superior painter, ever to walk the face of the planet, and that there is no way possible, that anyone knows more than you about painting, and that we should all just take you on your word for that.



jack pauhl said:


> I sure get a lot of crap for sticking up for painters, pushing the limits for them, sharing alternative methods and looking out for them.




Perhaps you can bestow upon us on the most efficient methods for painting a cross with blood from your divine wounds, while simultaneously varnishing the worlds smallest violin.

:blink:


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

Wow. You really put some time into that. I'm impressed!


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Okay, the provocation crap in this thread stops now. I spent a few minutes this am reading the trashed posts in the Mod section, and was ashamed to even see it on the forum.

Do yourselves a favor: If you can't reply to someone without engaging in some of these childish tactics - don't reply at all. I have no problem taking a reply out of a thread and tossing it in the trash. In return the person who posted it will get a friendly PM regarding posting behavior and I will bring it up for discussion in the Mod section. Fun is fun - this crap isn't.

Wolf


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

If I could thank more than once, it would be done

*THANKS *

*THANKS*
*THANKS*
*THANKS*
*THANKS* and again *THANKS*


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

2,145 views...

pure gold.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

TERRY365PAINTER said:


> So are you guys using the 14 with the Wooster adjustable frame or the 14 fixed frame ? I like the fixed frame cuz you roll
> Real close to corners and such .


My thoughts on the 14 are this... I've been rolling 18 for so long its hard to go backwards. For me that type of change takes away the benefit of a roller 4 inches wider. When I use the 14, I put it on the wide boy adjustable frame for solid rolling. 

There is always a 9 close by for corners and narrow areas when I use the 18. My focus when using the 18 is never to turn it sideways. That rig stays vertical to maximize the benefit of using it.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

LC

I actually read every word of that post. Phew. 

I think part of the disconnect that sometimes happens on topics like this, is that most of us are constantly improving the what and how of our craft and business. My own company even a year ago doesnt compare to what it is today. 

Jack is controversial, and he knows that. I have talked to him on the phone several times, and been in contact quite a bit in the past couple of years when we both realized that arguing this stuff on a public forum really was not a productive use of energy. Sometimes the written word, and all the videos, blogs, pictures in the world don't equate to the meaning that can be derived from an hour on the phone. 

In my opinion, and I dont know if Jack is formally consulting pc's or coming in as a sub to lead, but I believe the role he serves in his niche is that of a surrogate production manager. 

Management on site is THE biggest gaping hole in our industry. Owners want to be owners, painters want to be painters, and the gap in between is where crumbling demise, at worst, lies, and mediocrity at best is possible. 

So, maybe Jack comes in and runs a crew. 

There are notable exceptions, here on the forum and in the real world, of companies that are owner operated with crews and run extremely well. But it is the minority. Most have not much in place for production systems and product/tool protocol. 

So if Jack comes in with even a flawed system, and most importantly ENFORCES it every hour of the day, there cannot help but be a boost that would be reflected in production and post project financial analysis. 

Does that make Jack Superman? No. It makes him a surrogate production manager to companies that should have trimmed their own fat years ago. 

Does he provide a legitimate service to those he works with? More than likely.

Jack reflects the ugly truth of what bad paint contracting companies look like. Thank God they find him. But, that is why good painters and good paint contracting companies look at him like he surely must be crazy. 

Again, I would not have arrived at this perception of Jack if I had not taken the time to get to know him, which I felt I needed to do because prior to the new Painttalk Era, I was one of the biggest Jack Bashers. 

There is plenty that he and I dont agree on, and that is fine. He is still a colleague who does alot more good than bad for the industry, if only by getting people to stop and think about what and how they are doing. 

I am more of the belief that a good business is built with the right people, the right training, the right management and a win/win culture is bred where the best interest of the company is also in the best interest of the individual employee. Jack, like many, probably has not had that pleasure...yet. And he may have to change a few things if he chooses to pursue that avenue. 

Meanwhile, good healthy discussion, and props to all for keeping it at a professional level.


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


> My thoughts on the 14 are this... I've been rolling 18 for so long its hard to go backwards. For me that type of change takes away the benefit of a roller 4 inches wider. When I use the 14, I put it on the wide boy adjustable frame for solid rolling.
> 
> There is always a 9 close by for corners and narrow areas when I use the 18. My focus when using the 18 is never to turn it sideways. That rig stays vertical to maximize the benefit of using it.


I've considered an 18" for an upcoming contract with a large wall area.
Pretty steep investment for possibly a one off type job.
Can't spray due to the business operating above uses the same entry, so gotta roll.

colossus 3/4" 18"
with Wasatch prime, and Duration matte.

thoughts?


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## JoseyWales (Jan 8, 2011)

jack pauhl said:


> My thoughts on the 14 are this... I've been rolling 18 for so long its hard to go backwards. For me that type of change takes away the benefit of a roller 4 inches wider. When I use the 14, I put it on the wide boy adjustable frame for solid rolling.
> 
> There is always a 9 close by for corners and narrow areas when I use the 18. My focus when using the 18 is never to turn it sideways. That rig stays vertical to maximize the benefit of using it.


I've never tried an 18" because they only sell one sleeve for it...Most use the 18" for floors so the choices of sleeves are very limited...I prefer a 15ml for walls,Wooster Pro Dooz,shed resistant....Luckily I can get a Pro Dooz in a 14".

I also have a 9" ready in another tray when using the 14".


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

LC, is your phone broke? Hope you don't think I am going to waste another 2 hours replying to that BS> My number is in my profile pics gallery. I would be happy to further clarify your concerns.


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## 1963 Sovereign (Dec 14, 2011)

Jack,I honestly am sorry I posted this and started the whole mud slinging fiasco....


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

JoseyWales said:


> I've never tried an 18" because they only sell one sleeve for it...Most use the 18" for floors so the choices of sleeves are very limited...I prefer a 15ml for walls,Wooster Pro Dooz,shed resistant....Luckily I can get a Pro Dooz in a 14".
> 
> I also have a 9" ready in another tray when using the 14".


I'm pretty sure Wooster makes an 18 size for most of the covers they make. I primarily use the pro doo z 18's. Availability is sometimes hit or miss so I order 98% of my sundries online.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

LC you need to talk to Chris and start writing at BP. I got half way through and saw the rest and was like umm. TLDNR.


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## JoseyWales (Jan 8, 2011)

jack pauhl said:


> I'm pretty sure Wooster makes an 18 size for most of the covers they make. I primarily use the pro doo z 18's. Availability is sometimes hit or miss so I order 98% of my sundries online.


Yeah I see them available at "The Paint store" but the shipping to Canada almost costs as much as the case of sleeves...I'll check to see if my local paint store can order me a case...I've got some long hallways to paint coming up and an 18" should save me some time....


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

1963 Sovereign said:


> Jack,I honestly am sorry I posted this and started the whole mud slinging fiasco....


Its nothing new. Its expected.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


> Its nothing new. Its expected.


And that's the shame of it.

I spent a lot of time over the course of a few days going over Jack's website. Mainly out of curiousity more than anything else. I think at that time I had 26 solid years in this business, hands on, in the bucket, all the way. You'd think I'd have had it all figured out by then, but I still found some useful stuff to try.

It's like anything else: Take what you can use, leave the rest behind. But to personally attack someone over it.....for what? Because you disagree? BS. Because he may use different materials and supplies than you? BS. Because he takes the time to post his opinions on it? BS. He's using what works for him. I used what worked for me and like to think I was successful at it.

Let's keep this thread respectful and professional if at all possible.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Scott, what I do not understand is why people will take a video (any video) but lets use one of mine like the rolling with an 18" roller. Its stated in this video it is to show the efficiency of rolling with an 18. Its implied that one can come away after watching that clip and see that its quicker than a 9. There is nothing stated or implied anywhere that this video is a world record or any kind of record of my own. I am clearly rolling slow and casual in that video. Its actually twice as long as the actual time it takes me to roll that same area.

Then the tape video. Here is a video on how to lay tape with an emphasis on sealing the line, NOT SPEED. So this is why I disable comments on some videos because I don't have time to explain anything more than what the video shows. 

Now pop on over the the TA-20 video where I run about 14' in seconds for comparison. Why does LC choose to pull up a 2007 which like it or not, is good advice for getting clean lines. I mean, guys are caulking and back painting their lines and way over complicating the tape process. That video is long and detailed and there is no mention or anything implied that this is the best way to tape for speed.

I think LC's upset he didn't get a copy of How To Paint Like A Pro under his tree this year.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Wolfgang said:


> And that's the shame of it.
> 
> I spent a lot of time over the course of a few days going over Jack's website. Mainly out of curiousity more than anything else. I think at that time I had 26 solid years in this business, hands on, in the bucket, all the way. You'd think I'd have had it all figured out by then, but I still found some useful stuff to try.
> 
> ...


Thanks wolf. Interestingly enough... same deal here... been doing this a long time and I am constantly changing things on a regular basis. I even learn from watching videos of myself paint. It helps me understand why I do certain things (after the fact). I noticed when I wanted to write articles on cutting-in how difficult it was to put into descriptive words about what I was doing or thinking at any moment during a cut. As painters, we just lay paint on like second nature and when you are asked to explain what you are doing, it did not come easy to put into words. Only after watching the videos of myself was I able to decipher my technique in a way to share with other about how and why.

I never stop learning new things, every day is an 8 hour class.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Hey jack, what do you use for trim paint? Totally curious. I think you got something going on, over 2000 views on this thread so far, you have a helluva cult following. Kudos!


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> Scott, what I do not understand is why people will take a video (any video) but lets use one of mine like the rolling with an 18" roller. Its stated in this video it is to show the efficiency of rolling with an 18. Its implied that one can come away after watching that clip and see that its quicker than a 9. There is nothing stated or implied anywhere that this video is a world record or any kind of record of my own. I am clearly rolling slow and casual in that video. Its actually twice as long as the actual time it takes me to roll that same area.
> 
> Then the tape video. Here is a video on how to lay tape with an emphasis on sealing the line, NOT SPEED. So this is why I disable comments on some videos because I don't have time to explain anything more than what the video shows.
> 
> ...


Jack

I can relate completely on that one. Having put out alot of video over the past couple of years...I have some stories. 

I had one guy on a cabinet finishing forum crucify me for not showing Ford Cup Viscosity usage on my spray videos. I explained to him that I do not use Ford Cups to establish viscosity because I have been stirring and spreading paint for like 30 years and can tell (and count) how paint streams off a stir stick where I need my viscosity to be...

No reflection on LC, but it is usually guys who have never made a video, shared a process picture or published something to help others that are the toughest judges. 

Goes with the territory though. Fortunately, there are more people who appreciate seeing footage than not.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

WisePainter said:


> I've considered an 18" for an upcoming contract with a large wall area.
> Pretty steep investment for possibly a one off type job.
> Can't spray due to the business operating above uses the same entry, so gotta roll.
> 
> ...


Duration matte... I'd leave you on your own with that one wise. If its textured surfaces then it probably would not matter much what you used. Now that I think about it, a Colossus on a smooth wall will produce an irreversible transformation of the look of the wall. Especially if this is a clean wall.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

JP, gets a reaction from people some love him some loath him but either way he puts himself out there. 
We have all developed systems and routines for our daily work schedule and in my experience complacency can be a killer whether it is employee complacency or complacency within our own habits. When one stop looking for ways to improve then a plain has been reached which can often be accompanied by a loss of interest in the trade, this is not true for all some have just developed a cruising speed and are happy with where they are but the point I am trying to make is all it takes is trying something a different way to be like why did it take me 10 years to try it that way. People like JP and forums like this can be an asset to being exposed to different ways of doing things, it is up to you to decide to try something new and to see if it is worth repeating. 

Oh yeah I almost forgot stay on Wolf's good side he is a killer with a 5 in 1


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Paradigmzz said:


> Hey jack, what do you use for trim paint? Totally curious. I think you got something going on, over 2000 views on this thread so far, you have a helluva cult following. Kudos!


I'm trending, oh joy for me. :whistling2: I have 2 weapons of choice 1) 50/50 BEHR ULTRA semi/satin and 2) Glidden Diamond 350 50/50 eggshell/semi. These mixes often leave more paint leftover because each batch requires 2 gallons.


No paint I spread gets applied unreduced. BEHR has a high tolerance before coverage degrades. Its 28 oz of water to a gallon before you start loosing its good side.


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## JoseyWales (Jan 8, 2011)

jack pauhl said:


> I'm trending, oh joy for me. :whistling2: I have 2 weapons of choice 1) 50/50 BEHR ULTRA semi/satin and 2) Glidden Diamond 350 50/50 eggshell/semi. These mixes often leave more paint leftover because each batch requires 2 gallons.
> 
> 
> No paint I spread gets applied unreduced. BEHR has a high tolerance before coverage degrades. Its 28 oz of water to a gallon before you start loosing its good side.


Is that also called Dulux Diamond?...All ICI stores in Canada are called Dulux.

One of my favourite wall paint is Dulux Lifemaster....Dulux Diamond is a step up,their top of the line.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Paradigmzz said:


> Hey jack, what do you use for trim paint? Totally curious. I think you got something going on, over 2000 views on this thread so far, you have a helluva cult following. Kudos!


Actually my personal favorite to spray is BEHR Premium Plus semi straight. Two things tho, 1) straight is very glossy. Way too glossy for anything we do and 2) Premi has issues with putty. The yellowing effect over the holes. Not with all but some putties. But Premi plus sprays so damn nice and its coverage in the stock white ranks up there. I have not been able to pull off a one coat solid finish on MDF for example but if MDF came to the job in better shape, it would be easy to do. 

Should also mention BM WB Impervo. That stuff is simply elite.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Workaholic said:


> JP, gets a reaction from people some love him some loath him but either way he puts himself out there.
> We have all developed systems and routines for our daily work schedule and in my experience complacency can be a killer whether it is employee complacency or complacency within our own habits. When one stop looking for ways to improve then a* plain* has been reached which can often be accompanied by a *loss of interest in the trade*, this is not true for all some have just developed a cruising speed and are happy with where they are but the point I am trying to make is all it takes is trying something a different way to be like why did it take me 10 years to try it that way. People like JP and forums like this can be an asset to being exposed to different ways of doing things, it is up to you to decide to try something new and to see if it is worth repeating.
> 
> Oh yeah I almost forgot stay on Wolf's good side he is a killer with a 5 in 1


:laughing:


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> Actually my personal favorite to spray is BEHR Premium Plus semi straight. Two things tho, 1) straight is very glossy. Way too glossy for anything we do and 2) Premi has issues with putty. The yellowing effect over the holes. Not with all but some putties. But Premi plus sprays so damn nice and its coverage in the stock white ranks up there. I have not been able to pull off a one coat solid finish on MDF for example but if MDF came to the job in better shape, it would be easy to do.
> 
> *Should also mention BM WB Impervo. That stuff is simply elite*.


Concur. Big Time.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

JoseyWales said:


> Is that also called Dulux Diamond?...All ICI stores in Canada are called Dulux.
> 
> One of my favourite wall paint is Dulux Lifemaster....Dulux Diamond is a step up,their top of the line.


Let me get with my people on that. I'm confused on what they did with one of their old label products simply called Diamond in the Dulux can. Then came the Diamond Brand with 250, 350 and 450 which I know were old products now with Diamond branding.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> Jack
> 
> I can relate completely on that one. Having put out alot of video over the past couple of years...I have some stories.
> 
> ...


Scott, I've seen most of your vids and appreciate the time and effort you put into making them. You're absolutley right about the "critics", and I'd like to add that fortunately there are people like you and JP who take the time to produce these.


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


> Its stated in this video it is to show the efficiency of rolling with an 18. Its implied that one can come away after watching that clip and see that its quicker than a 9. There is nothing stated or implied anywhere that this video is a world record or any kind of record of my own. I am clearly rolling slow and casual in that video. Its actually twice as long as the actual time it takes me to roll that same area.


The issue I raised on that video was not speed.

The issue I raised was why did you change your technique from one side of the wall to the other? You did not use the same technique on one part of the wall, that you used on the other part.

And what was with the diagonal motion of the roller against the wall?

And most importantly, you took exception with people who analyzed/critiqued the way you rolled the wall, and refused to reply to their critique, stating that you had made the rule before hand that no one could question your method.

You want to claim you techniques are superior, and you even *made a rule* where no one can critique your technique.

:blink:



jack pauhl said:


> Then the tape video. Here is a video on how to lay tape with an emphasis on sealing the line, NOT SPEED.


But the reality is, breaking tape into multiple sections is less efficient than one continuous piece of tape.

You even said yourself, you don't do that any more.



jack pauhl said:


> Why does LC choose to pull up a 2007


Because it is the one I remembered and I looked for it.

And my point was, you always claim that there is no painter that can surpass your procedures.

I was giving you an example of one that I knew for a fact that at the time mine surpassed yours. And I was not unique by any means at that point in knowing more efficient ways to tape. Lots of painters that I know, understood taping one continuous line is more efficient than taping multiple segments.



jack pauhl said:


> I think LC's upset he didn't get a copy of How To Paint Like A Pro under his tree this year.


Ironic comment. Because it is that very attitude, combined with the fact that you want all painters to accept your decree that your methods are superior to theirs, and you want them accept that abstractly, and you wont provide examples of your claims, that I am taking exception to.



jack pauhl said:


> Hope you don't think I am going to waste another 2 hours replying to that BS>


Is what I wrote BS? All that stuff I wrote was BS? So now are you going to dismiss it as BS?

You have stated that painters react to you adversely because they can't handle being challenged.

So, can make that claim of you? Or is that verboten? Is it possible that YOU don't like being challenged?

You just wrote that you were going to make a video showing you cutting lines even faster than the link I provided, and that you would use your new camera to do it and show the lines up close.

So are you not going to do that now, because you are dismissing my exceptions as BS?

You said yourself that cutting lines alone is a small part of production, and I agree, it is just one element of many skills a painter can develop.

So I don't think it will hurt the secrecy of your over all system any, by showing cutting a line even faster than the linked video shows, first coat, with a significantly contrasting color, then showing the line up close.

Besides, cutting in lines is a skill that one must DEVELOP, it takes lots of practice, people can't steal the knowledge by watching a video.

So I hope you will follow through with your earlier statement.


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

Wolfgang said:


> But to personally attack someone over it.....for what? Because you disagree? BS.





Wolfgang said:


> You're absolutley right about the "critics"


Wolfgang, I am just curious are these comments in reference to my interactions with JP in this thread?

Do you think I have been *attacking* JP? 

Or are you referring to the material that was already deleted by other posters?


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Any and all LC. Not in any particular mood to argue or discuss it. Take what applies to you, if any, and leave the rest. Nuff said.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

vermontpainter said:


> Concur. Big Time.


Is wb impervo available? If it is im gonna beat the hellouta someone at the bm store for telling me it didn't exist anymore last week. I called in 6 gallons of wb impervo, they made 6 gallons of oil. Set up to shoot, see its Alkyd. Call store, they say impervo only comes in oil. They switch me out for advance because it is the only hi gloss hi end finish they got. No price difference, no refund.


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> No reflection on LC, but it is usually guys who have never made a video, shared a process picture or published something to help others that are the toughest judges.


I do hope, this does not reflect on me. I have indeed taken much time at this website publishing many articulate, lengthy, posts designed to help people.

And I never ignore a request to help people who PM with any questions, and I spend a great deal of my own time in those messages for the sheer joy of helping that person.

And also I would note that a painter who has never published a video can be perfectly qualified to look at a video of someone else painting, and accurately assess errors, or inadequacies in their technique. 

One does not need to have produced a painting tutorial video to, to make an assessment on a technique displayed in a painting tutorial video.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Last Craftsman said:


> I do hope, this does not reflect on me. I have indeed taken much time at this website publishing many articulate, lengthy, posts designed to help people.
> 
> And I never ignore a request to help people who PM with any questions, and I spend a great deal of my own time in those messages for the sheer joy of helping that person.
> 
> ...


All true, LC. That is why I prefaced my comment as I did.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Paradigmzz said:


> Is wb impervo available? If it is im gonna beat the hellouta someone at the bm store for telling me it didn't exist anymore last week. I called in 6 gallons of wb impervo, they made 6 gallons of oil. Set up to shoot, see its Alkyd. Call store, they say impervo only comes in oil. They switch me out for advance because it is the only hi gloss hi end finish they got. No price difference, no refund.


They fooked up. Still have it here in Chicago. Love the stuff and use it almost exclusively.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

We have used it on 3 projects in a row.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Wolfgang said:


> Scott, I've seen most of your vids and appreciate the time and effort you put into making them. You're absolutley right about the "critics", and I'd like to add that fortunately there are people like you and JP who take the time to produce these.



I dunno about Scott's production process for video making but it is not easy for me. The quickest video i made was called Rolling Walls--Technically Speaking -- Not really. I had planned on doing a huge production on rolling that day but it was 100 degrees in that house. Almost forgot to make the video but what I did was in the middle of rolling out a room I whipped the camera out, stuck in on a 2' step and got right back to rolling. If they could all go that simple I'd post more often.

I'm hoping to put more focus on videos this year. I have so many areas I would like to cover in more detail and remake some old videos from years ago with some updated techniques etc and much better video clarity.

The most difficult video I made was called Rolling Inside Corners. This setup required me to get the video camera up at the ceiling line and it sat in front of my face while I made the cut. I had to hold my cutting can in front of the tripod while my right hand made the cut. PITA. Then the process doesn't 'feel' natural because its staged to some degree vs someone randomly shooting video while you paint.

I'm always open to suggestions on what videos to shoot if anyone has any curiosity on how a particular task is done. Cuttin-in videos are very hard to record by yourself because the video frame does not capture the top of a door casing to the floor without being far from the casing. I have a TA-20 video that reflects this distant view, even the way I shot it, it was cut off at the top. The other difficult part is the ceiling line cuts because while I would like to show a 20' run, this is not possible unless someone moves the camera to follow the cut because those are 7' runs also and in order to get 7' in the frame requires a distant camera. Maybe I'll get a helmet camera and try that route.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> They fooked up. Still have it here in Chicago. Love the stuff and use it almost exclusively.


I wanted the best and got stuck with 6 gallons of advance for 450.24. That's a bitch. Again, why I personally hate bm. It's not bm's fault, but my local store leaves me wanting. Big time. 

Sorry about the hijack, back to behr, i mean jack...


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

jack pauhl said:


> I dunno about Scott's production process for video making but it is not easy for me. The quickest video i made was called Rolling Walls--Technically Speaking -- Not really. I had planned on doing a huge production on rolling that day but it was 100 degrees in that house. Almost forgot to make the video but what I did was in the middle of rolling out a room I whipped the camera out, stuck in on a 2' step and got right back to rolling. If they could all go that simple I'd post more often.
> 
> I'm hoping to put more focus on videos this year. I have so many areas I would like to cover in more detail and remake some old videos from years ago with some updated techniques etc and much better video clarity.
> 
> ...


Funny you mention that, I shot a video this week of a bench test of palm sanders. I was really wishing I had a db meter...the vid is painful...


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

LC, I have no problem being challenged its just that you wrote a book and to reply would take writing a book and picking and piecing it together. Its a PITA. Maybe Ill podcast it or shoot you a video response. Its no big deal really but some replies just take too much to put together. I know that took you some time to write up and I don't want your effort to go to the wayside. I do want you to understand how I tick and why things are exactly the way they are online. 

Have a Happy New Year!


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

Wolfgang said:


> Any and all LC. Not in any particular mood to argue or discuss it. Take what applies to you, if any, and leave the rest. Nuff said.


Any and all? 

My request for clarification was sincere.

If you are not in the mood to discuss anything, that is fine, maybe in the future you will be in the mood to respond to my question.

It would concern me to think you were moving on from this point, and you had perceived my interactions with JP as being "attacks" on him, when I am posting detailed examples asking JP to illustrate his claims, especially considering his many statements that he has made to the effect that no other painters hold a candle to him.

It would concern me to to think you would be moving forward from this point chalking up all the effort I have put into these posts as "attacks".

So I do hope that there will be a point in the future, where you will clarify that completely sincere request for clarification.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Paradigmzz said:


> Is wb impervo available? If it is im gonna beat the hellouta someone at the bm store for telling me it didn't exist anymore last week. I called in 6 gallons of wb impervo, they made 6 gallons of oil. Set up to shoot, see its Alkyd. Call store, they say impervo only comes in oil. They switch me out for advance because it is the only hi gloss hi end finish they got. No price difference, no refund.



WB impervo is only in satin, no hi gloss. I think high gloss latex Impervex is still made.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Scott, yeah I find this video making stuff a bit challenging. It would help me if someone just shot video while I did whatever. I recently shot a new video on the CEROS on another table strip. I get the thing loaded in iMovie and all I hear is the sound of the shop vac which I strategically placed down the hall as far as possible. Epic fail. I suppose I'll publish it without sound of lower that sound to a whisper. I have respect for guys who shoot video for a living. There is no doubt a skill to producing quality stuff. Did u test the CEROS yet? Or any Abranet abrasive without a sander? I like that Abranet just folded up in half to sand sags drips etc on these repaints.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

How does WB Impervo compare to Aura?

Had major issues with Impervex years ago.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> How does WB Impervo compare to Aura?
> 
> Had major issues with Impervex years ago.


Much more user friendly. Its butter.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

NEPS.US said:


> How does WB Impervo compare to Aura?
> 
> Had major issues with Impervex years ago.


I avoid Impervex like the plague and haven't used it in years. WB Satin Impervo with a little Flotrol, or even better the XIM extender and I'm golden. :yes:


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> They fooked up. Still have it here in Chicago. Love the stuff and use it almost exclusively.


Actually it doesn't come in gloss to my knowledge. 

Edit Dean is correct.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> Funny you mention that, I shot a video this week of a bench test of palm sanders. I was really wishing I had a db meter...the vid is painful...


No db meter app in the app store? I have to brag because all my friends with iPhones give me chit but windows 7 phone has a free one. :jester:


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> Actually it doesn't come in gloss to my knowledge.
> 
> Edit Dean is correct.


Crap, I miss-read what you said. I thought you were asking about SATIN Impervo. My apologies. :notworthy:


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Crap, I miss-read what you said. I thought you were asking about SATIN Impervo. My apologies. :notworthy:


Wasn't me, I just read told the store impervo gloss. Which wouldn't be impervo oil either. 



Schmidt & Co. said:


> I avoid Impervex like the plague and haven't used it in years. WB Satin Impervo with a little Flotrol, or even better the XIM extender and I'm golden. :yes:


I will say that impervex looks horrible when you apply it, but give it a full cure and you will like the finish. 

Advance looks great but is difficult.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> How does WB Impervo compare to Aura?
> 
> Had major issues with Impervex years ago.


Its really toothy as well.


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

I think WB impervo was an early WB, advance is more what WB imp should have been. That said- I really like Aura satin for trim. Tweeked just a little with xtender and H20 and it is a beautiful finish, dries quick- recoats quick etc. What s not to like!


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Brushjockey, whats not to like is that WB or aura cant flow like oil. Brush marks can be seen. Advance is close. Some paint company will eventually get it right, a wb to flow like an oil, period.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

Zoomer said:


> Brushjockey, whats not to like is that WB or aura cant flow like oil. Brush marks can be seen. Advance is close. Some paint company will eventually get it right, a wb to flow like an oil, period.


Will paint flow better on glass vs wood? Why is that?


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## alertchief (Nov 12, 2009)

BrushJockey said:


> I think WB impervo was an early WB, advance is more what WB imp should have been. That said- I really like Aura satin for trim. Tweeked just a little with xtender and H20 and it is a beautiful finish, dries quick- recoats quick etc. What s not to like!


How much of each product would you estimate you are adding?


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

straight_lines said:


> Wasn't me, I just read told the store impervo gloss. Which wouldn't be impervo oil either.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you ordered Impervo Gloss, I would have expected high gloss oil http://www.benjaminmoore.com/en-us/for-your-home/impervo-interior-exterior-alkyd-high-gloss-enamel-133;jsessionid=YPtQT1NQ6bJ2p4mMTnqy27KGXJ6nHGmzhb1wWvQvDvNL3M5TyyZG!1253208053!NONE


This one to be exact, but maybe with the old label.


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

Alert- I do by feel - not into supply but into cut buc- about equal - I like Xim xtender just a little splash..


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> Funny you mention that, I shot a video this week of a bench test of palm sanders. I was really wishing I had a db meter...the vid is painful...


I need to get some of those stickers.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

BrushJockey said:


> Alert- I do by feel - not into supply but into cut buc- about equal - I like Xim xtender just a little splash..


Lot of guys do it by feel. Never use extenders myself but when I reduce with water I reduce to the point the paint no longer accumulates on the surface of the paint sitting in the can when you remove a paint stick. The trail of paint penetrates directly through the surface of the paint in the can. A little accumulation is also fine for me. Guess I like my paints very fluid and fast.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

i didnt read the entire thread but i saw jacks name an will say this ...........i will paint side by side with jack anytime ........he does his thing an he does it......... man the f up


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

since when i first came here ive always takin a liking to jack ................ does his thing an thats it.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

jack let them say..............line up with you an say ???they wont


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

fuk it JACK for paintalk president !! ........................spelling is for sissies


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## alertchief (Nov 12, 2009)

BrushJockey said:


> Alert- I do by feel - not into supply but into cut buc- about equal - I like Xim xtender just a little splash..


Thanks sounds about like what I do with my hvlp !


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## Ultimate (Mar 20, 2011)

Welcome back 'Ole.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

FatherandSonPainting said:


> Welcome back 'Ole.


 thanks man ................i like readin your stuff .................


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

im real an i keep it that way


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

straight_lines said:


> Wasn't me, I just read told the store impervo gloss. Which wouldn't be impervo oil either.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Impervo higloss. Alkyd. Yes they do have it.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Paradigmzz said:


> Impervo higloss. Alkyd. Yes they do have it.


So you didn't answer me in the other thread about pro-classic comparison to advance, I know the application learning curve tripped you up, and that is understandable. Was the finish better with advance or PC hybrid?


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

straight_lines said:


> So you didn't answer me in the other thread about pro-classic comparison to advance, I know the application learning curve tripped you up, and that is understandable. Was the finish better with advance or PC hybrid?


I'll let you know Monday when we go back to reverse walls.  happy new year. Was out in the hot tub


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Paradigmzz said:


> I wanted the best and got stuck with 6 gallons of advance for 450.24. That's a bitch. Again, why I personally hate bm. It's not bm's fault, but my local store leaves me wanting. Big time.
> 
> Sorry about the hijack, back to behr, i mean jack...


Dude, I think we pay like $37.99 a gallon for Advance satin in the Seattle area. Maybe a few bucks more as the sheen goes up. Were you trying to get WB satin impervo, or the old high gloss Impervex? Just curious.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Damon T said:


> Dude, I think we pay like $37.99 a gallon for Advance satin in the Seattle area. Maybe a few bucks more as the sheen goes up. Were you trying to get WB satin impervo, or the old high gloss Impervex? Just curious.


Client wanted higloss. Truth is i assumed impervo came in a gloss wb, rarely do I shoot gloss. They traded me out the impervo for advance.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Advance high gloss. Looks amazing when sprayed, dries in a day at 70 degrees indoor temp with 10 % or less humidity.


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