# Seal crete/Sherlastic/Super Paint Satin System



## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

I didnt want to talk about this in Arrons pic thread. Because i wouldnt want a HO to see a debate on this and risk the confedence in his clients or future prospects. So i am starting a new thread and i have edited my reply taking about this. I dont want any one thinking i am attaking. I would really like some helpfull replys, so maybe i or you might, learn something. While maintaining a respect towards each other and understanding where one might be coming from. 
WOW! That got long!
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This was my reply and i would like to hear what others think of this system. 
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"Hmmm! 
I have always used primers as a base coat. I am not sure on the Seal crete as the base coat and elasto on top of that, nor am i sold on the satin over the elasto. I would be nervous of it delaminating between eather of them. I am not familiar with seal, so i wont add my thoughts on that, although i have my speculation. 
Elasto's have a soft shell so it can handel movement. Enamels have a hard shell wich can not handel much shifting. So if the enamel brakes and moisture gets behind it, it can create peeling between the elasto and the satin. Most elasto can only be covered with elasto's coatings unless you prime. I could be wrong, i am going to ask my paint rep about this syestem. Who recomended this system? Have you done one like this? If so what does it look llike 1-2 years later?"


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Seal Krete is 100 percent acrylic, kind of like the glue in paint. It is thinned out to the point that it is like water. It goes on milky white and dries clear. It basicly cements the substructure together so the top coat has a more solid surface to bond to.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

Very common down here... we never use "primer"on an exterior stucco repaint. Did you read the link i put in, in regards to sealer?? Here it is again.* http://www.seal-krete.com/original.htm .*

*Ewing what are your speculations???*


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

Typically we would just do sealer & super paint...but this structure had thousands of hairline cracks. The elato is used to bridge these cracks


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

I am not so much with the seal as i am about the satin over the elasto. #1 post above is my thoughts on that. I have used seal creat before, just not as a base coat. Im sure it works. I have always stuck to what the spec of the coating recomends, for waranty reasons.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

aaron61 said:


> Typically we would just do sealer & super paint...but this structure had thousands of hairline cracks. The elato is used to bridge these cracks


Believe me, i know about elastos way to much. I know that coating can go all wrong if not applied right. And can be a very costly repair. And that comes from the good ole school of hard knocks. I have BAD dreams about it to this day.


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## LOSTinDETAILS (Jun 17, 2009)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Im sure it works. I have always stuck to what the spec of the coating recomends, for waranty reasons.


You think SW would not warranty if there ever was a problem?


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Believe me, i know about elastos way to much. I know that coating can go all wrong if not applied right. And can be a very costly repair. And that comes from the good ole school of hard knocks. I have BAD dreams about it to this day.


Most likely what you have been using is plenty good for your area, and stucture you are applying it to.Elastomeric paint is mostly for concrete/ stucco type buildings that need water sealing from the verticals areas.I think you most likely know this though.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Believe me, i know about elastos way to much. I know that coating can go all wrong if not applied right. And can be a very costly repair. And that comes from the good ole school of hard knocks. I have BAD dreams about it to this day.[/quote
> 
> Your comments sound so skeptical.. we, and many others have done thousands of these. We have personally never had any failures. I'm not sure how you could have a failure. It's not like the building is falling apart and stretching the paint 300%.
> Could you expand on failures you have had??


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## tsunamicontract (May 3, 2008)

Ewing what has gone wrong with elasto for you?


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Ohhhhh! Man! You got me eating my cigar on that one. 
Believe me or believe me not. If its a costly repair :no: if they dont want to pay for it and you dont have that system on paper, and SIGHNED! :no: They dont HAVE to. If you do according to specs. They HAVE to. 
I am talking legally not logical.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Ohhhhh! Man! You got me eating my cigar on that one.
> Believe me or believe me not. If its a costly repair :no: if they dont want to pay for it and you dont have that system on paper, and SIGHNED! :no: They dont HAVE to. If you do according to specs. They HAVE to.
> I am talking legally not logical.


Can you give an example of a failure you have experienced....I really am interested????


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

tsunamicontract said:


> Ewing what has gone wrong with elasto for you?


Moisture getting trapped behind the coating and delamination. We had a total of 16, 3000+ sqft houses fail. I had 3 different paint vendors and 2 paint chemist looking at it (have you guys ever met a paint chemist, strange ones).


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Moisture getting trapped behind the coating and delamination. We had a total of 16, 3000+ sqft houses fail. I had 3 different paint vendors and 2 paint chemist looking at it (have you guys ever met a paint chemist, strange ones).


Which coating was the moisture trapped behind?


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

What would be the difference in moisture getting between the top coat and the elastomeric or getting between primer and the top coat.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Im not saying your syestem does not work. I am not sure since it is not to spec. Knowing how costly it can get if a failure were to happen. To protect my business, money and clients, i am bound to the specs. That is the way i look at it. If it is outside of it then i have to get a written signed guarantee, no matter how good my friendly rep is. Because in the end he doesn't have the power. 
That said, lets talk about the coatings. My worry would be if the Superpaint enamel would be compatible over the elasto without using a primer and if it being to soon to even apply a different coating over it. I forget how long it takes a elasto to cure, but i know it ant 24 hrs. And, if a failure were to occur, are you covered by your supplier? 
Since elastos are a soft coating and enamels are harder. Whats going to happen when the elasto starts shifting and the enamel can not handel it so it will break open causing a open door for moisture to intrude. And what about the perm rating after you applied the enamel? Elasto products have to breathe. Hold your breath, what happened? That's what happens to elastos when it cant breath. It just starts popping off the wall and/or it creates its own moisture causing a water bubble to form. I have seen them the size of basket balls. Like i said, i learned way to much about elastos. So it makes me warry about messing with the specs of it.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

From what I have seen, it is the water coming from above that gets behind ,maybe a parapet wall that makes the bubbles form, and not from the side walls. I don't know if I would use elastimeric on a home, I have used it commercial buildings. I can see where they would use it in Florida though.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

I appreciate your concern, but really we are not worried!


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Obviously Aaron has found a system that works well for him. I use the same for stucco homes in my area. Has anyone tried LOXON as a primer over stucco or as a primer over repaints? I have always used it on new construction and just recently tried it on a repaint.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

Wolfgang said:


> Obviously Aaron has found a system that works well for him. I use the same for stucco homes in my area. Has anyone tried LOXON as a primer over stucco or as a primer over repaints? I have always used it on new construction and just recently tried it on a repaint.


Loxon is the same as the Seal Krete but the Krete is cheaper. Again the saying goes: "if you don't seal it will peel" We use to use a product called Painters Insurance. It was a concentrate. The thinner you mixed it the more it would bind and penetrate into the surface.
It's definetly a different ball game down here!


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

aaron61 said:


> I appreciate your concern, but really we are not worried!


.
Aaron,
I am not concerned about you or what system you use. I have my own projects to be worried about. I started this thread so we wouldnt debate it in your thread, out of respect for you. In fact, it is and was not necessary for you to reply. However your input is appreciated. I am not attaking you. I just wanted to know what others thought. I will be asking my rep about it. So DID! Gett me thinking about it and that is worth it in itself. After chewing on it, i dont think i would use that seystem. Nothing againt you. Just wouldnt use it. 
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It would be cool to see if other members would ask their SW rep, next time you see him/her. It would be interesting to hear what they had to say about this system. Im sure the input would varry. 
Just talking shop aaron, no need to be offended. 
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Yes, i have used TON! Of Loxon, great stuff. There are only 3 elastos i would use. SW Loxon, Vista Paints Weathermaster, ICI Decra Flex 300.


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

never personally heard of loxon, but ICI has a masonry primer "Hydrosealer" that is excellent for stucco and concrete. I use it on my foundations before topcoating it. Just a thought. I want to say it is around $16.00/gal IIRC.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

nEighter said:


> never personally heard of loxon, but ICI has a masonry primer "Hydrosealer" that is excellent for stucco and concrete. I use it on my foundations before topcoating it. Just a thought. I want to say it is around $16.00/gal IIRC.


N8, is that a elasto prime? I have used a elasto prime from Frazee (comex) it was ok stuff. It didnt bridge the cracks like i thought it would. Just required multi coats. But i think, not sure, that stuff is designed for a base coat for elasto topcats. Does your stuff bridge the cracks. Tell me more about this product. Wht do you feel it works? I am going to ask my ICI guy about this stuff. 
Good stuf here.


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

Ewing.. yes it is actually the recommended bonding primer for the DecraFlex Elastomeric paint from ICI. It is the "premium" primer of their lineup. Stuff is great. Been using it for 5 yrs now. Rep said if the cracks are less than a credit card wide, or a knife wide you can go across the crack with the elastomeric paint, not with the crack, across it and fill the crack. If it is bigger than that, to use a eurathane caulking to fill cracks then a bonding primer or just elastomeric. Said the hydrosealer/decraflex is a great system.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Thanks N8, i have only used ici, decra flex on repaints. I dont usually prime repaints, i would if it was needed. But on most repaints, primeing is not needed.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Just to be clear i am not concerned with the seel kreate. My concern is the enamel over the elasto so i hope we are talking about the same thing. I was having a hard time replying quickly last night, because I was doing some billing. So i am adding some replies
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johnpaint said:


> From what I have seen, it is the water coming from above that gets behind ,maybe a parapet wall that makes the bubbles form, and not from the side walls. I don't know if I would use elastimeric on a home, I have used it commercial buildings. I can see where they would use it in Florida though.


:yes: a poorly designed structure can cause a failure to occur with elastos. That was one of the determining causing factors to my failure. Along with product failure 
.


aaron61 said:


> Your comments sound so skeptical.. we, and many others have done thousands of these. We have personally never had any failures. I'm not sure how you could have a failure. It's not like the building is falling apart and stretching the paint 300%.
> Could you expand on failures you have had??


I am skeptical because it is not to spec. By going out on your own with a syestem, that most likly wont be supported by the paint manufacturer, if a costly failure were to occur. 
We had 16 failures, the average cost of the failure was roughly 2000 bucks LABOR ONLY, the most costly repair was roughly 8 grand. Once you have a failure with elastos (or with any failures, not just elastos), most often they will come back, even after a repair. Just because all the effected areas do not show up all at once. You might get 90% of it. Most likely more effected areas will reappear. The only way to be sure they wont come back, is to remove the coating. And, on a complete, ext building surface's, you would be looking at sandblasting. 
.


aaron61 said:


> What would be the difference in moisture getting between the top coat and the elastomeric or getting between primer and the top coat.


The difference is you will have support from your supplier between the primer (specked for the elasto) and the elasto. You may not get the support between the elasto and and the enamel. Knowing the pain and suffering from a failure i wouldn't want to go through that again. Even if your supplier's backs you up. It will still cost you a few nickles, your valuable time and possibly a "black eye". 
I am not willing to risk that.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

ewingpainting.net said:


> .
> Aaron,
> I am not concerned about you or what system you use. I have my own projects to be worried about. I started this thread so we wouldnt debate it in your thread, out of respect for you. In fact, it is and was not necessary for you to reply. However your input is appreciated. I am not attaking you. I just wanted to know what others thought. I will be asking my rep about it. So DID! Gett me thinking about it and that is worth it in itself. After chewing on it, i dont think i would use that seystem. Nothing againt you. Just wouldnt use it.
> .
> ...


I am not offended and was also just talkin shop


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## Dunbar Painting (Mar 19, 2010)

Apologies for PMing you about what was clearly written in this thread; which, I missed and then randomly found via a google search for sealkrete.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

What a civil dialogue. Nice job, guys. I'm glad there isnt much stucco around here.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Here's something that I believe to be a bad '70s diy stucco on the chimney of a house I estimated about 3 years ago. Unfortunately, we were not awarded the project.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

I don't know why but I love looking at complecated surfaces, help finding the right cure. I looked at a structure today. They wanted elasto, why? Cause water was going inside. I spent about an hour troubleshooting. Determining it will only be a band aid. These type of jobs intrigue me. 

Scott from that pic viewing it on my BB. The coatings looks awful thin to be stucco. I have seen thin azz stucco before. The substrate under looks to be tilt up??????


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## CPFSam (Nov 8, 2010)

Loxon is not the same as seal krete. I have done many new homes and repaints in s florida with elasto. Loxon can be applied after 72 hours and a high ph on new stucco. Seal krete will break down and you will most definitly have those basketball size bubble with elasto on a new home.
Seal krete is great great as a sealer for repaints to harden a chalky surface after p cleaning, but not for the loxon/ elasto system by sw on new homes. Loxon primer came out years ago as a primer for hot stucco on new home because builders didnt want to wait for the stucco to kool. Then apply elasto for settling cracks.

Also using elasto as a base coat (if Im reading this right) is very questionable as elasto in spring especially will rewet itself up to 3 or 4 days.
Seal krete as a sealer then elasto on repaint-yes.
Sel kret elasto on hot stucco brand new-no
loxon then elasto on hot stucco-yes.

Ask a SW rep. I been through this one.


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

id never take advice from someone who screwed up 16 stucco houses.

that would be silly.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

high fibre said:


> id never take advice from someone who screwed up 16 stucco houses.
> 
> that would be silly.


Our ancestors have failed us not nearly as much as they have succeeded us. We learned from those failures. At one time the N word was acceptable as was slavery. Today we have learned from that failure. Resulting in a profound knowledge that can only come through our experience's as a country. That my friend is the best schooling a person can get "History". If we forget the failures, they will come full circle only to fail even harder and there will be no advancing. I have a slogan on my Email signature. "Its not that you failed but how you handle the failure" 

Dealing with coating/life you are bound for a failure. Large or small you will experience one/a few/lot. What you learn from those (if your willing to learn) will only advance you. 

Not to long ago there was a gentlemen came here asking for help for a elasto issue. I extended my hand. As I was troubleshooting with him. He say's, "your giving me the why's but no fix's" if you don't know the how's, you can't find the fix, and if you don't know how's, your chances of repeating a failure is higher. What a great thing we have here, where we can share with each other helping other not make the same mistake or experience the same failures we have dealt with. 
highfiber,
You will all ways be johnthepainter nothing more or nothing less. So please go make another sign or something to land you the next job. :thumbsup:


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

Gabe....I just wanna say that I 'like' you, but I'm not going to hit the button.


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

i wouldnt use enamel over elasto either.


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## JoseyWales (Jan 8, 2011)

CPFSam said:


> Loxon is not the same as seal krete. I have done many new homes and repaints in s florida with elasto. Loxon can be applied after 72 hours and a high ph on new stucco. Seal krete will break down and you will most definitly have those basketball size bubble with elasto on a new home.
> Seal krete is great great as a sealer for repaints to harden a chalky surface after p cleaning, but not for the loxon/ elasto system by sw on new homes. Loxon primer came out years ago as a primer for hot stucco on new home because builders didnt want to wait for the stucco to kool. Then apply elasto for settling cracks.
> 
> Also using elasto as a base coat (if Im reading this right) is very questionable as elasto in spring especially will rewet itself up to 3 or 4 days.
> ...


What about this product for new stucco?








*Seal-Krete® Stucco-Guard™ is a premium, low lustre, water-based acrylic sealer that provides a tough, flexible water-resistant film for new or aged stucco surfaces. *



Designed to penetrate deep into stucco pores, Stucco-Guard provides protection against color bleeding, premature fading, and mold and mildew growth. Ideal for hurricane/storm-prone areas Seal-Krete Stucco-Guard stops wind-driven rain (up to 124 mph) and helps prevent weather damage from freeze/thaw cycles when applied according to specification.

*







• Meets ASTM E-514 for wind driven rain (up to 124 mph) 
• Low lustre finish 
• Reduces cracking 
• Enhances stucco color 
• Revitalizes old stucco surfaces 
• Applies white, dries clear 
• Binds chalky surfaces *

*Stucco-Guard Data Sheet (pdf) *

Stucco-Guard MSDS (pdf) 
*Best for *Stucco finishes *Limitations*Do not put in paint shaker, or shake vigorously. Do not use below grade. 
*Coverage*80-300 sq.ft. per gallon, based on surface porosity*Gloss / Sheen*Low-lustre*VOC*Less than 100 grams / liter *Color*Applies white, dries clear *Size*1-Gallon
*Application*Garden sprayer, airless sprayer, brush or roller 1/2 inch nap *Dry Time*Dries to touch in 2 - 4 hours. Dry time will be longer in cool temperatures. 
Product Number Unit sizeUPC CodeCarton
QtyCarton
Code 
Carton
Size Carton
Weight (lbs)Pallet Qty
( cases)1500011-gal0 15944 15001 8 49001594415001114 x 14 x 83945
​


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## CPFSam (Nov 8, 2010)

Ive never seen that particular seal krete product. Although it doesnt look like its for high ph stucco. Looks like a good product. Seal Krete is great for a sealer on repaints. Penetrates and hards the surface even for elasto. But like I said, when SW brought loxon to me years ago it was for new high ph hot stucco on new houses where there wasnt time for the full curing process.


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## JoseyWales (Jan 8, 2011)

CPFSam said:


> Ive never seen that particular seal krete product. Although it doesnt look like its for high ph stucco. Looks like a good product. Seal Krete is great for a sealer on repaints. Penetrates and hards the surface even for elasto. But like I said, when SW brought loxon to me years ago it was for new high ph hot stucco on new houses where there wasnt time for the full curing process.


 
For old stucco I've never used a sealer...A rep suggesting lightly spraying a wall down with water before painting...Sealing it make more sense because stucco really absorbs paint.


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## CPFSam (Nov 8, 2010)

JoseyWales said:


> For old stucco I've never used a sealer...A rep suggesting lightly spraying a wall down with water before painting...Sealing it make more sense because stucco really absorbs paint.


Hey Wales what part of the country are you in? I ask because in the south we seal everything. Thin sealer through a pump sprayer. Im in the north now and they dont even sell sealer nor does anyone ask about it.


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## JoseyWales (Jan 8, 2011)

CPFSam said:


> Hey Wales what part of the country are you in? I ask because in the south we seal everything. Thin sealer through a pump sprayer. Im in the north now and they dont even sell sealer nor does anyone ask about it.


Alberta,Canada.

I have never sealed houses before with seal crete or anything like that.On stucco it's just acrylic paint.There are specific stucco paints.The key is to wash the house well before painting.I fill the small cracks with acrylic caulking.


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