# Quick setting patching products



## HQP2005 (Feb 14, 2012)

This is a follow up to my "($$$$$$$) minor drywall repairs" which as taken a new direction that im interested in.

I saw alot of references to setting compounds (easysand, durabond) and as I said, I have only used SheetRock Joint Compound for taping and patching and just work on something else while it sets. 

Im interested to hear what others are using as I definatley see the advantage of not having to wait for set up

How does durabond compare to easy sand? Which is easier to apply and sand?

What are the disadvantages to using these products and is it better use them for filling and taping, then something easier to work to cover and finish?


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## wills fresh coat (Nov 17, 2011)

HQP2005 said:


> This is a follow up to my "($$$$$$$) minor drywall repairs" which as taken a new direction that im interested in.
> 
> I saw alot of references to setting compounds (easysand, durabond) and as I said, I have only used SheetRock Joint Compound for taping and patching and just work on something else while it sets.
> 
> ...


We use both but the dura bond is used for the first coat only, we use the easysand for the final two, the main difference is dura bond don't sand well because it dries so hard


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I have used the easy sand setting compound often for repairs. I try to do the last coat of the repair with regular joint compound since I read some here think the setting compound is too alkaline for paint to adhere properly. I have never noticed a problem either way, but I always let setting compound repairs sit for at least 24 hours before painting either way.


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## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

wills fresh coat said:


> We use both but the dura bond is used for the first coat only, we use the easysand for the final two, the main difference is dura bond don't sand well because it dries so hard


proper ting bye !:yes:


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

It's great for speeding up repairs. Typical apartment repair is 3 coats of 5 minute mud, spray paint on the patch out in an hour. On popcorn ceilings I mix the paint with the texture to eliminate the extra step. Of course the expectations are lower with that type of work.

The trade off is that it isn't as smooth, doesn't sand as well and has somewhat of a learning curve, especially the 5 minute, you better be FAST. 

Best thing in people's homes is to topcoat with joint compound as dean said. Best of both worlds!


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## CliffK (Dec 21, 2010)

You can also just throw a little plaster of paris into some standard joint compound HQP and make your own "quick setting" compound in a pinch. I usually make a a little slurry of the plaster first and then mix it into the compound. There are many approaches. Don't over do the plaster ratio because you will reduce the adhesion qualities. It's fine if you're just shoving it in a hole. The durabond and easy sand are both good products. The durabond drying a little harder and the easy sand being well, easier to sand. I usually buy the bags and then put them into empty joint compound 5's for keeping. It makes it much easier than dealing with the dusty bag. For small repairs I keep cut off plastic 5 gal. cans about 5 inches tall and use them as mixing dishes. The dried product cleans out pretty easy with a little flexing and scraping.


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## DanielMDollaPainting (Feb 24, 2011)

I always buy the sheetrock 5 min in the little box and mix it in a stainless mud pan, then wash out in between coats. I know what you mean about the dusty bags. The little bags aren't too bad.
I worked for a carpet guy as helper when I was young. He used to mix floor leveler in a cut off soft plastic jug. Let it dry then he would squeeze it and the dried mud would break up and fall right out.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

When you start using different time hot muds, cut the number off the bag ( 5, 20, 90 ) and tape it on your bucket so you don't get them confused. All the powder looks the same.


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## wills fresh coat (Nov 17, 2011)

Scotiadawg said:


> proper ting bye !:yes:


What's that mean?


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## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

wills fresh coat said:


> What's that mean?


LMAO ! newfie slang= proper thing boy, or that's the way to do it- in our language. My youngest son lives on The Rock so I hear the newf lingo a lot.:yes:


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## TERRY365PAINTER (Jul 26, 2009)

I wouldn't even think about using , regular mud ! 
Do you really want to make a 2 trips for a hundred patch . Where is this easy sand mud! Never seen it . Durabond sands good you have to cut your edges good . Sand and sponge . If I know it's going to be an extra day . I would use 
Light weight mudd . All purpose is a taping mudd 
IMO its not hard enough not good for patches . 
Flats walls and little holes maybe .


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## wills fresh coat (Nov 17, 2011)

TERRY365PAINTER said:


> I wouldn't even think about using , regular mud !
> Do you really want to make a 2 trips for a hundred patch . Where is this easy sand mud! Never seen it . Durabond sands good you have to cut your edges good . Sand and sponge . If I know it's going to be an extra day . I would use
> Light weight mudd . All purpose is a taping mudd
> IMO its not hard enough not good for patches .
> Flats walls and little holes maybe .


Home depot sells it...if you use dura bond now you will love easy sand


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## HQP2005 (Feb 14, 2012)

Thanks for the responses

If i've read this correctly, I think I will (as someone in the other thread suggested) start with the easysand 45, see how that goes, and skim coat with regular mud. As I said, I dont typycally do just patches, so im there doing other work as well.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

I would START with durabond, especially if you are using tape, as ez sand isnt really hard enough for holding tape (this is what i have been told by drywall guys). Ez sand is great for subsequent coats, or by itself for small, shallow patches.


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## HQP2005 (Feb 14, 2012)

This is gonna turn into a Durabond vs easysand thread, which is fine with me.

But I guess i need to do my part, so im gonna try both in the 45 next time I get something w/ more than one patch. I still feel the need to use regular JC for final coat cuz thats what Im familiar with as for as applying the paint. 

Ill experiment later more w/ finishing with the easy when a situation comes that allows experimentation.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

kdpaint said:


> I would START with durabond, especially if you are using tape, as ez sand isnt really hard enough for holding tape (this is what i have been told by drywall guys). Ez sand is great for subsequent coats, or by itself for small, shallow patches.


 Not necessarly true.If that was a fact why use drying type compounds to embed joint tape.Theres none softer than that.Its mainly about the glue thats in the compounds that you give you your strength and bond.Thats what holds it all together.


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## oldpaintdoc (Apr 11, 2010)

Regardless of what type of compound (setting or regular) it has to dry not just set.

Let it dry over-nite or dry with a heat gun.

Then sand, prime and paint.

I hear it from non pros all the time. "you can tape, mud and paint this (crack/hole) in one day if ya use setting type mud.

Small repairs yes if ya dry it with a gun.


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## Masterpiece (Feb 26, 2008)

For drywall (or plaster) it depends on the size of the job but the product is the same, EasySand. If it's new drywall and a large area ie an entire room or large ceiling jobs I'll use 45min but for smaller things like closets, I'll use 20min.

For patches, repairs, large or small, I've grown to love 5min EasySand. The first pan or two may be wasted lol but after you get it, it's great...IME...

EDIT: BTW, 45min and higher, mixing large batches in a 5 is great, 20min mixing in a 5 requires judicious use of materials (working on a room for some friends mixing 20min in a 5), 5min in a 5..fuggedaboutit!


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

My concern in using ez sand for embedding tape is that it is not very hard. Plus, I love durabond for some hard to explain reason....


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## wills fresh coat (Nov 17, 2011)

HQP2005 said:


> This is gonna turn into a Durabond vs easysand thread, which is fine with me.
> 
> But I guess i need to do my part, so im gonna try both in the 45 next time I get something w/ more than one patch. I still feel the need to use regular JC for final coat cuz thats what Im familiar with as for as applying the paint.
> 
> Ill experiment later more w/ finishing with the easy when a situation comes that allows experimentation.


It shouldn't because really the only comparison is that they both are fast set..as far as sanding goes there really is no comparison. You can mix them both thick or thin, that just depends on the amount of water


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## ROOMINADAY (Mar 20, 2009)

If you are at all concerned with the location of a patch, use fast set on your 1st 2 coats, except on the final skim as you can feather sand premix much easier than setting compounds. All coats can be done on the same day, sand the following day as the patch is set, not dry. We 1st coat all new construction with fast set 90 (average 5 to 10 bags) and there are many times it is still to wet and soft to second coat over the next few days. 

Plan proper drywall repairs into your schedule - don't fit them into it! It will wear on your soul! 

I find it best sometimes to spend a few hours a day or two before at a home to get the PIA patches started before we roll in to paint. Most homeowners don't mind as it is usually not an inconvenience, and they are more excited about their project being next in line!

Also, prime with any primer that will balance the PH, this can make a difference on adhesion issues when you put a finish coat over a large skimmed area.

I have pulled tight skims on entire rooms with 45 and 90's and finished the same day with fast cure time primers and paints...and with 2 coats AURA only...not the best advise I can give...


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

This is a great post. I was thinking about asking this exact question. I feel I have honed my drywall repair skills pretty well. I have taped a few repairs with easy sand. At the time, I was concerned it wasn't hard enough. Never had a problem or call back. However, If I can...I use premixed JC for the taping I do. 

Not to get off topic, but, for small repairs (holes, scratches, etc.) are you using spackle? I am growing ever more impatient with this stuff. I liked One Time, however, it seems to be sanding inconsistently from batch to batch.


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## TERRY365PAINTER (Jul 26, 2009)

Oops damn I use Ez sand al the time . I was think it was a wet type mud . Not a chemical setting mud . I mainly use 5 min and 20 . I keep a 5 of water with a sponge and a gong brush for easy cleaning . Powder mudd I like to mix the water into the mudd with a putty knife . Then fix the mud with either more or less water depending on 
What float I am doing . Sometimes a little dish washing soap helps with skim floats .


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## HQP2005 (Feb 14, 2012)

I've stopped using anything that says lightwieght on anything larger than a finish nail hole due to problems with flashing. Since most jobs dont meet this criteria, I hardly ever use it.


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

Flashing hasn't been my problem. I always prime the patches. Do you prime the patches (with primer) when using easy sand or durabond?

The problem I have with spackle is it sands too easily or too difficultly. (is that a word?) The inconsistency makes me crazy. Again...specifically One Time.


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## ROOMINADAY (Mar 20, 2009)

epretot said:


> Flashing hasn't been my problem. I always prime the patches. Do you prime the patches (with primer) when using easy sand or durabond?
> 
> The problem I have with spackle is it sands too easily or too difficultly. (is that a word?) The inconsistency makes me crazy. Again...specifically One Time.



I find the OneTime or any vinyle spackle makes the surface as smooth as glass and all these new paints and microfiber sleeves level so nice it is hard to build decent roller stipple to help it blend in on a wall with critical lighting. Use CS and a 1/2" whizz to create roller stipple. Is this the flashing you are referring to. I have seen many hacks paint 2 coats over Onetime and it flashes BAD! All the "self priming" paints cover Onetime with 2 coats does a nice job...just the patch telegraphs as a smooth area. We will skim Drydex over the Onetime (if we can find it) to help with finish quality.


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## HQP2005 (Feb 14, 2012)

I may be talking about something different, I was refering to products like Fast n' Final (I think by DAP). It seems to dry with a light pourous sheen that shows through even after priming.


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## scottjr (Jan 14, 2012)

For residential repaints I use onetime quite a bit actually for nail pops that are deep. Usually I will do one coat of onetime and then a final of jc. After sanding I roll all the patches in the room with the top coat, as it dries I will start my cut ins. Then apply 2 coats of top coat. I have never had a problem with flashing doing it this way.


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## ROOMINADAY (Mar 20, 2009)

HQP2005 said:


> I may be talking about something different, I was refering to products like Fast n' Final (I think by DAP). It seems to dry with a light pourous sheen that shows through even after priming.



Onetime is the exact same.


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## ROOMINADAY (Mar 20, 2009)

scottjr said:


> For residential repaints I use onetime quite a bit actually for nail pops that are deep. Usually I will do one coat of onetime and then a final of jc. After sanding I roll all the patches in the room with the top coat, as it dries I will start my cut ins. Then apply 2 coats of top coat. I have never had a problem with flashing doing it this way.


That's the same thing we do with the Drydex instead of JC, it is joint compound like and won't flash.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

HQP2005 said:


> I've stopped using anything that says lightwieght on anything larger than a finish nail hole due to problems with flashing. Since most jobs dont meet this criteria, I hardly ever use it.


 Try crackshot spackling by Dap it wont flash.I use it alot especially when installing trim that has been previously painted prior to installation.Filling of nail holes,light sanding,apply final top coat of enamel coating.


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## HQP2005 (Feb 14, 2012)

ROOMINADAY said:


> Onetime is the exact same.


 
OK, this is going to get confusing, we must of been writing #26 and #27 at the same time, cuz i was responding to the same thing you were, not your comment. 

But yeah, what you said explains better what I saying (maybe porous wasnt the right word)


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

mudbone said:


> Try crackshot spackling by Dap it wont flash.I use it alot especially when installing trim that has been previously painted prior to installation.Filling of nail holes,light sanding,apply final top coat of enamel coating.


My Dad (who is also a painter) uses crackshot. He uses it for walls and trim. Told me to try it. Should have listened to Pops.


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

Just read through this thread- couple of things to add-
Sometimes I think Easy sand ( setting mud) has been confused with easy Sand Plus 3 ( Premixed lightweight) 
USG did make that confusing. And ES setting dries fairly hard I think- not like Duro- but way more than any premixed.

On Spackles- I used to use Bordens Wood Filler (tan stuff) until it got harder to feather out- then went to Crackshot- And it seems to be going that way too. Lightweights have their place- I carry both .
Anybody color white fillers so you don't miss them? What with?
U tints change them so they dont work as well- food coloring sometimes bleeds...


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

BrushJockey said:


> Just read through this thread- couple of things to add-
> Sometimes I think Easy sand ( setting mud) has been confused with easy Sand Plus 3 ( Premixed lightweight)
> USG did make that confusing. And ES setting dries fairly hard I think- not like Duro- but way more than any premixed.
> 
> ...


Yes. I color my spackle or mud on occasion. I use the chalk for a chalk line. Not too much though or you will cause yourself some real problems.


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## b2dap1 (Mar 18, 2009)

I like first coat or two with 20 min Durabond. Final coat with lightweight cause it sands so easy. Any real deep holes just use plaster or 5 min durabond. I ALWAYS run a fan right on it or a hair dryer if all I am waiting for is spackle to dry. 

As far as dusty bag goes just dump in a clean empty spackle bucket with a clean lid and label it. I have been using the same one for a few years now.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

epretot said:


> My Dad (who is also a painter) uses crackshot. He uses it for walls and trim. Told me to try it. Should have listened to Pops.


Nail pops?


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

mudbone said:


> Nail pops?


No...he uses JC for nail pops. He has a patented method for nail pops in the ceiling. He drives a screw overlapping the head of the nail (ensuring it won't come back out), then repairs.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

epretot said:


> No...he uses JC for nail pops. He has a patented method for nail pops in the ceiling. He drives a screw overlapping the head of the nail (ensuring it won't come back out), then repairs.


Not a bad idea. I just usually take the loose nails out and replace with screws.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

TJ Paint said:


> Not a bad idea. I just usually take the loose nails out and replace with screws.


 Or put a new screw inch or inch and a half away and set nail if cant be removed works for me also.


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## Painter Chick (Mar 1, 2012)

Not sure what your drywall repairs are but if its nail pops or old screw holes before a repaint I use Crack shot or fast n final! If we are taping settlement cracks I like mesh tape with durabond 45 on the first coat and then use LaFarge Rapid coat, you can sand this stuff with your hand! Not that I sand, I drag my stuff tight!
:thumbup:


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## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

Painter Chick said:


> Not sure what your drywall repairs are but if its nail pops or old screw holes before a repaint I use Crack shot or fast n final! If we are taping _*settlement cracks I like mesh tape with durabond 45 on the first coat *_and then use LaFarge Rapid coat, you can sand this stuff with your hand! Not that I sand, I drag my stuff tight!
> :thumbup:




way to go!:thumbsup:

Not that I sand, I drag my stuff tight!
:thumbup:[/QUOTE]
Pffft, braggart!


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## Painter Chick (Mar 1, 2012)

I would rather coat it again than sand!


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## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

Painter Chick said:


> I would rather coat it again than sand!


yeah, just trying to get yer goat !:thumbsup:


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## Painter Chick (Mar 1, 2012)

I wasn't mad I was just sayin!


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## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

Painter Chick said:


> I wasn't mad I was just sayin!


mmm ok, I'll try again later , when you not suspecting it - it's my job, you understand.


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## mudbone (Dec 26, 2011)

Scotiadawg said:


> yeah, just trying to get yer goat !:thumbsup:


 You mean trying to get her coat!sounds smoother to me.:whistling2:


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

TJ Paint said:


> Not a bad idea. I just usually take the loose nails out and replace with screws.


I agree. Ideally the nail should come out. Sometimes they are still in there pretty good though. More damage is done trying to get them out.


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