# Paint vs. Solid Stain on shingles



## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

Ok, I know this might sound like a bit of a DIY question, but I habe never been able to find the answer on my own, I will ask. What is, if any, the advantage of solid stain over paint on shigles or clapboards. I know that it does not need to be primed (sometimes), and no need to sand when recoated, but does it last longer?
I am painting a house on the coast that I am assuming is stain. Home owner wants to know if a stain or paint will be better. Whatever is on there is in very good shape, and plan on sanding it, even if it is stain. It is a lead job, and the home owner has mentioned many times that the prep work is very important to him...so sanding the stain.

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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

From my experience the biggest thing is that a solid stain will show more of the texture of a shingle where a paint will cover quite a bit of the texture. Oil based (alkyd) solid stains used to be the go to on rough sawn shingles and oil (alkyd) primer and paint was for smooth shingles. To be honest i would use Cali solid alkyd either way now. Or something similar of course, if anyone else out there has one.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

PACman said:


> From my experience the biggest thing is that a solid stain will show more of the texture of a shingle where a paint will cover quite a bit of the texture. Oil based (alkyd) solid stains used to be the go to on rough sawn shingles and oil (alkyd) primer and paint was for smooth shingles. *To be honest i would use Cali solid alkyd either way now. Or something similar of course, if anyone else out there has one.*



That's one reason I can see not to use alkyd solid stain anymore, its already a headache for me because I have people coming back to restain with a product BM doesn't manufacturer anymore. BTW I wasn't even able to find a SDS/TDS for a solid alkyd from cali?

Stains penetrate and weather different than a paint that's the biggest difference imo


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

PACman said:


> From my experience the biggest thing is that a solid stain will show more of the texture of a shingle where a paint will cover quite a bit of the texture. Oil based (alkyd) solid stains used to be the go to on rough sawn shingles and oil (alkyd) primer and paint was for smooth shingles. To be honest i would use Cali solid alkyd either way now. Or something similar of course, if anyone else out there has one.


I have never seen Cali solid alkyd.

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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

Hey Pete. Stain is going to soak into the wood cells waaaay more than a primer and paint giving a cohesive bond, great adhesion (with a good product). It is also going to let the wood "breathe" more than a paint. 

Look into quality products, no Sw stains... Proluxe Rubbol is the best we've ever seen and used. We, being 4 different companies I've used the product with. 

The biggest issue with painting or staining older wood siding, is when you get bubbles in your new coating. This is caused by the UV breaking down the existing wood cells either through the existing stain or paint. A lot of times of siding looks like it's in good condition but you can put a coat or two of your product on it and it's those decayed would cell that caused the bubbling. 

Anyways RuPaul is an awesome solid body stain <-- now that's a funny autocorrect...

Okay Rubbol is an awesome solid body stain. Spray and back brush with a 6-inch staining brush.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

We've gone back to big custom homes where we used rubbol on the shakes and it's held up for a long time, and looks great


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> That's one reason I can see not to use alkyd solid stain anymore, its already a headache for me because I have people coming back to restain with a product BM doesn't manufacturer anymore. BTW I wasn't even able to find a SDS/TDS for a solid alkyd from cali?
> 
> Stains penetrate and weather different than a paint that's the biggest difference imo


Ok, but the big difference between a semi-transparent and a solid stain is that the solid does not penetrate but creates a film, which is why they are terrible for decking. 

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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

ridesarize said:


> Hey Pete. Stain is going to soak into the wood cells waaaay more than a primer and paint giving a cohesive bond, great adhesion (with a good product). It is also going to let the wood "breathe" more than a paint.
> 
> Look into quality products, no Sw stains... Proluxe Rubbol is the best we've ever seen and used. We, being 4 different companies I've used the product with.
> 
> ...


I had the bubbling occur on a big job last summer. Could not figure out what was going on...drove us crazy.

So, if the stain on it is fairly solid (very little issue with peeling), will putting more sold stain on it negate the breathable aspect of the product?

The only thing on this house that is really peeling is the paint on the trim.
The shingles I beleive had all of the old coating grinded off last time and then stained.









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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

ridesarize said:


> Hey Pete. Stain is going to soak into the wood cells waaaay more than a primer and paint giving a cohesive bond, great adhesion (with a good product). It is also going to let the wood "breathe" more than a paint.
> 
> Look into quality products, no Sw stains... Proluxe Rubbol is the best we've ever seen and used. We, being 4 different companies I've used the product with.
> 
> ...


I like sikkens/proluxe/rubbol and I carry them in my store but I just don't get a good feeling from ppg changing labels, branding, formula AND colors every couple years. Old rubbol was good, now I'm not so sure.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

i guess Cali did drop the alkyd stain. Say there is no demand for it anymore. They recommend a coat of Storm Alkyd primer and a coat of Storm acrylic stain for a solid color system. (this system has a higher perm rating than the wood does so it is plenty breathable)


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## Mr Smith (Mar 11, 2016)

I'd use the combo of EB Emulsa Bond + Flood Solid Stain. That **** sticks!

I live in the great white north and my deck is still in mint condition after 5 years of using that combo. The deck does have an overhang but snow lays on it for 5 months a year.

I've been using Flood Stain for 15 years without an issue.

https://www.flood.com/products/paint-additives/e-b-emulsa-bond

For the shingles you could use a garden sprayer and apply some of Benjamin Moore's 'CLEAN'---- then agitate or Scrub shingles with a plastic bristle brush or a broom and rinse off and allow to dry before applying the Flood stain.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Mr Smith said:


> I'd use the combo of EB Emulsa Bond + Flood Solid Stain. That **** sticks!
> 
> I live in the great white north and my deck is still in mint condition after 5 years of using that combo. The deck does have an overhang but snow lays on it for 5 months a year.
> 
> ...


Flood is in the same boat as sikkens as far as I'm concerned. Used to carry flood but since PPG bought them changed all the labels and formula, now I get to deal with everyone who bought the flood name but every product is different formula and the new colors don't match.

Don't get me wrong I like ppg products but it feels like their just throwing darts at the board with all of these brands they are purchasing.

regarding additives like emulsabond I always figure the chemists could easily modify their product to contain these additives if they wanted to. So why don't they? Its a band-aid, a shortcut for proper prep work.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

Flood stains already have Emulsabond in them.


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## rosespainting (Mar 16, 2014)

Like others have said.. Solid stain is much better for rougher wood surfaces. It allows the wood to "breath" better. This breathability, reduces the risk of peeling. It also weathers differently, where paint will peel and crack over time, the solid stain will wear thinner. I prefer to use solid stain on wood siding than paint. 

I don't remember the last time I saw solid oil / alkyd stain. I do like the BM water based solid stain. The only water based stain I use is BM solid, and semi solid. The semi trans, and transparent water based products just don't hold up here. I do like the BM oil stains, and I am a big fan of sickens/proluxe/rubbol products. The SW stains (atleast since they bought Duck Back and switched their stain line to the DB products) don't seem to do well here. they don't hold up as well, and they seem to attract mold much faster.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

Possibly anything put on takes away from the breathability, but rubbol is good stuff.


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## New England painter (Apr 7, 2018)

General rule is...if previous surface is paint, you cannot use a solid stain over a painted surface. Stain is called stain for a reason, it's not paint, its made to penetrate into the wood. And you don't prime if you're staining. So many painters got this all wrong.... Does a election install the wrong voltage for a refrigerator..? Really.....


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

New England painter said:


> General rule is...if previous surface is paint, you cannot use a solid stain over a painted surface. Stain is called stain for a reason, it's not paint, its made to penetrate into the wood. And you don't prime if you're staining. So many painters got this all wrong.... Does a election install the wrong voltage for a refrigerator..? Really.....


But, as I mentioned earlier, solid stains, as I have always understood them, do not penetrate wood, but rather create a film. Either way, does not matter to the job I am doing. I am painting/staining over stain.

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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

New England painter said:


> General rule is...if previous surface is paint, you cannot use a solid stain over a painted surface. Stain is called stain for a reason, it's not paint, its made to penetrate into the wood. And you don't prime if you're staining. So many painters got this all wrong.... Does a election install the wrong voltage for a refrigerator..? Really.....




Yeah, but it’s not quite that simple. Some acrylic stains do actually call for a primer over certain tannin rich woods. There are also some specialty primers like Mad Dog that are made to go under solid stain when going over older surfaces. 

I think we all wish there was a solid stain that actually did penetrate completely instead of forming a film. The reality is they are all film forming coatings that have more in common with paint than they do true stains. Most acrylic solids I’m familiar with are rated to go over previous coatings, including paint. 




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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Pete Martin the Painter said:


> But, as I mentioned earlier, solid stains, as I have always understood them, do not penetrate wood, but rather create a film. Either way, does not matter to the job I am doing. I am painting/staining over stain.
> 
> Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk


Although they are film forming solid/semisolid stains do penetrate the wood substrate to some degree. I pulled out an older arborcoat sheet that has a nice graphic for you.


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## New England painter (Apr 7, 2018)

Jmayspaint said:


> New England painter said:
> 
> 
> > General rule is...if previous surface is paint, you cannot use a solid stain over a painted surface. Stain is called stain for a reason, it's not paint, its made to penetrate into the wood. And you don't prime if you're staining. So many painters got this all wrong.... Does a election install the wrong voltage for a refrigerator..? Really.....
> ...


We'll yes it is that simple, I've been painting for 20 years now, so it's not completed for me.
Why the heck would you paint solid stain over paint anyways? Typically if the surface is stain, go with stain. If you're using stain over paint your warranty expires. Always check the msds specs for application. Stain does penetrate thats why it's called stain. And that green and sticky mad dog crap is a joke! Don't waste your time and money on that junk, im surprised it's still available.


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## New England painter (Apr 7, 2018)

Pete Martin the Painter said:


> New England painter said:
> 
> 
> > General rule is...if previous surface is paint, you cannot use a solid stain over a painted surface. Stain is called stain for a reason, it's not paint, its made to penetrate into the wood. And you don't prime if you're staining. So many painters got this all wrong.... Does a election install the wrong voltage for a refrigerator..? Really.....
> ...


Well what you have mentioned earlier is incorrect! Do your homework and never assume anything unless you know what the heck your doing. Check your msds spec application


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

New England painter said:


> Well what you have mentioned earlier is incorrect! Do your homework and never assume anything unless you know what the heck your doing. Check your msds spec application


Are you always an asshat, or is this just how you act online. I was never rude to you, nor was anyone else. I have been told by my paint rep and my paint store manager that solid stain does often need a primer, which you state is a mistake and those that use it do not know what they are doing. As for Mad Dog, you must not know what you are doing. It is the only primer that I have used that actually blocks rust. I have used it to fix a failing horse hair plaster wall, and I have used in on wood so grey and beat up I told the HO it should not be painted...four years later it looks like it was just painted. So, if you are a know it all, and feel that others are just idiots, you have nothing to learn here, and just going to p#ss a lot of people off.

P.S. just looked at the TDS for Arborcoat ultra flat solid, and it states that it can be applied over paint. I guess doing so does not void a warranty.

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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

New England painter said:


> Well what you have mentioned earlier is incorrect! Do your homework and never assume anything unless you know what the heck your doing. Check your msds spec application




This is too stupid to be real right? 
Quit trolling and go away. 


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

New England painter said:


> Well what you have mentioned earlier is incorrect! Do your homework and never assume anything unless you know what the heck your doing. Check your msds spec application


I did do my research, and decided to do bit more, and it turns out my "assuming" was correct. Solid stain acts more like a paint than a stain. In that any good paint will penetrate the wood a bit, just like a solid stain does. It is a amazing how some feel that they know it all just because they have been doing something for a long time. 

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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

BTW Pete. In my experience, paint will cover better than stain, especially if your changing colours. However stain will weather better. I definitely would stick to 100% acrylic for either product though.. 
I personally don't see the benefit of using stain over top of a paint, as it would just be acting as a paint now.. only a thinner version. My 2 cents.


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