# Residential exterior repaints- One coat or two?



## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

On exterior repaints, I firmly believe in and always bid for two coats. What are you guys doing?


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

This is in my ALL my quotes, interior and exterior. 
Apply a full coverage (a minimum of 2 coats)


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

for me it just really depends, stucco hardly ever gets two coats unless a major color change. Wood that is in good condition gets just one, bad wood will get one or two, just depends if I spot primed or applied a full primer.

Interiors only get two coats if the old color bleed through.

Pat


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Depends on the paint, and the time between the last finish was applied, color change. Duration or Aura is a one coat paint, and I have service set up with many customers who get a coat of paint every four or five years at a big discount. 

It works out to be more money in the long run, than if they would repaint every seven years, but don't tell them.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

straight_lines said:


> It works out to be more money in the long run, than if they would repaint every seven years, but don't tell them.


I dunno about that - I would think preventive maintenance would save the customer money in the long run.

Pat


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

usually two coats. its very rare where the substrate is in good enough condition for one coat.


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

I follow manufacturer specs. Super Paint - 2 coats. Duration - 1 coat. 

That goes for any other product as well. 

I sell Duration more than I do Super Paint, it's my money maker.


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

I vote for both, but that isn't an option.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> I follow manufacturer specs. Super Paint - 2 coats. Duration - 1 coat.


Usually the manufactures goes by mills. Because painters would thin the chit out of the paint. So for warranty purpose they go by mills. Even though the specs might say 2 or 1 coat. To reach the required mills you need 2 coats.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> I vote for both, but that isn't an option.


I didnt put both as an option because that could apply to most of us. Theres always exceptions. Just going by what everyone normally does. For me, its usually two coats. Even with Duration or Aura I still do two coats. I target specific jobs. My average house is 10 yrs old and being repainted for the first time since it was built. They are almost always done in a low grade flat when built and Im usually applying a Satin finish. One coat of Satin over flat just doesnt look right IMHO. I did do an exterior in May where the guy was putting his house on the market and just wanted a quick one coat paint job. I should have mentioned interiors too, I usually do two coats but just finished one where they could only afford one coat. Had I bid it for two coats, I might have been sitting at home the last week. Reason I started this poll is most my competitors are bidding for one so I am always the higher bid. Two coats is a big part of my selling. Thats where educating my customers comes in. If I dont explain I will do two coats and why, I am not succesful at selling jobs. I also make my proposals as detailed as possible with products and procedures all listed. I have had homeowners show me competitors proposals that simply said..... "Paint exterior one coat" with a price next to it. LOL Not me :no:


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Usually the manufactures goes by mills. Because painters would thin the chit out of the paint. So for warranty purpose they go by mills. Even though the specs might say 2 or 1 coat. To reach the required mills you need 2 coats.


I totally agree.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

Woodland said:


> I have had homeowners show me competitors proposals that simply said..... "Paint exterior one coat" with a price next to it. LOL Not me :no:


that and they have a few checkboxes below it.

sand - checked
caulk- checked
trenching- checked

lol

Pat


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

Woodland said:


> I also make my proposals as detailed as possible with products and procedures all listed. I have had homeowners show me competitors proposals that simply said..... "Paint exterior one coat" with a price next to it. LOL Not me :no:


I had a conversation on the phone with johnpaint the other day talking about this same thing. I'm considering a two page proposal (or more if required) listing out details. I have had a one page proposal (for simplicity) for years and I get this feeling people want more than the general information. HO says: "Sure, we know your going to paint our house, but how are you going to do it?" I know another guy in Forest Grove that includes a lot of detail in how he is going to paint the house that he is bidding on and I bet the reason he is booked into Sept is partially because of how his proposals are set up. Before my call with John, I had already been thinking in this direction. A couple bids this year have implied I lost them for this very reason.

Due to your post Woodland, I just made the decision to change my approach. Thanks!


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

PatsPainting said:


> that and they have a few checkboxes below it.
> 
> sand - checked
> caulk- checked
> ...


LOL Yeah, I've seen those proposals too.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

I usually spec two coats, had a commercial bid that I did and they called back and wanted it spec'd for one coat!


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## VanDamme (Feb 13, 2010)

I'm currently painting a exterior.....well.....not today because it's raining like a SOB, but I digress. 

Anyway, a neighbor comes over and wants a proposal for the exterior of his place.....decent sized place. I bid all surfaces for 2 coats. I also give them a price to stain & lacquer their kitchen cabinets (55 openings).

I'm doing the cabinets, but he said I was just about double the other 2 bids for the exterior. After I explain the 2 coats (which was in the proposal) he said "can you cut the second coat out?"

So......He will remove and reinstall the 20 shutters after I paint them, and I will cut one coat out and see where I stand.


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## VanDamme (Feb 13, 2010)

*""Paint exterior one coat" with a price next to it. LOL Not me "*

I like to write mine on the back of a SW receipt while specifying Miller paint. :thumbsup:


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

what about all the paints that say on the can "one coat coverage"?:thumbup:


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## Metro M & L (Jul 21, 2009)

TJ Paint said:


> what about all the paints that say on the can "one coat coverage"?:thumbup:


I think what they're refering to is that if you took off your hoody and set it on top of the gallon can it would be covered. Guaranteed or they give you another can for free or a bigger hoody if you're a short dude.


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## StefanC (Apr 29, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> I follow manufacturer specs. Super Paint - 2 coats. Duration - 1 coat.
> 
> That goes for any other product as well.
> 
> I sell Duration more than I do Super Paint, it's my money maker.


Duration isn't a miracle paint, you should still apply 2 coats for a quality job. I can't think of the last time I used 1 coat on anything outside, and I use only Aura and Duration for the most part.


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

Interior - 2 coats. 

Exterior - 2 coats. 

Ceilings - 2 coats. 

Same colour - 2 coats. 

Minor colour change - 2 coats. 

Major colour change - 2 coats. 

New - Prime + 2 coats.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

TJ Paint said:


> what about all the paints that say on the can "one coat coverage"?:thumbup:


I carry 4 different manufacturers and not one has any "one coat" paint, nor does it say anything to that regard on the label. Who makes paint that says "one coat" on the label? Just curious :blink:


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

I have always heard that Duration is one coat, but if you do one coat of anything you are going to get flashing. To me it's all depends if your into calling a job done with flashing on the walls.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

I recently did do a one coat job. BUT it was same color, same sheen, same product and it gets painted every 5 years. It is for a government building. The wear is very minimal.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Its a case, by case basis for me. Although I mostly spec two coats, at times I spec one, sometimes three! Either way, I always go for _coverage._


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## One Coat Coverage (Oct 4, 2009)

I always spec two coats, but, you know me, I'm the master at one coat coverage. OCC Baby!! What really sucks, is when you spec two coats, then the customer wants it priced at one coat.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

NCPaint1 said:


> I carry 4 different manufacturers and not one has any "one coat" paint, nor does it say anything to that regard on the label. Who makes paint that says "one coat" on the label? Just curious :blink:


its been awhile since i've seen a can. Probably was in a boxstore getting some tools.


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

NCPaint1 said:


> I carry 4 different manufacturers and not one has any "one coat" paint, nor does it say anything to that regard on the label. Who makes paint that says "one coat" on the label? Just curious :blink:


Good point. You've got me think-n....

I actual grab-d a can this evening looking for that one coat coverage bs... Nope... didn't find it. 

My Rep swears by it: "Only one coat!"... Sold me  .... 

Anyways... this topic has got me thinking about a couple issues ... :blink:


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## AztecPainting (Jan 28, 2010)

I have done 1 coat repaints for some people that only requested that (it has never been my choice and it won't be) No my ideal job but you gotta do anything that makes your clients happy I guess.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

Just wondering here - what are the benefits of applying two coats of flat finish on a wall that is the same or similar color as the new color?

Pat


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

I voted two coats of course but every now and again I run into a job where all they want is a 1 coat maintenance coat. This is usually a rental property situation.


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

PatsPainting said:


> Just wondering here - what are the benefits of applying two coats of flat finish on a wall that is the same or similar color as the new color?
> 
> Pat


If you do a single wall repair and don't double coat it, it will flash. 

One coat usually flashes, as getting the exact same colour on a wall that was painted X years ago is nearly impossible (paint fades over time). 

And holidays do happen.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

PatsPainting said:


> Just wondering here - what are the benefits of applying two coats of flat finish on a wall that is the same or similar color as the new color?
> 
> Pat


Durability


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Rcon said:


> If you do a single wall repair and don't double coat it, it will flash.
> 
> One coat usually flashes, as getting the exact same colour on a wall that was painted X years ago is nearly impossible (paint fades over time).
> 
> And holidays do happen.


Yeah but you can spot prime to eliminate this. 



ewingpainting.net said:


> Durability


I agree with Gabe.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

Rcon said:


> If you do a single wall repair and don't double coat it, it will flash.
> 
> One coat usually flashes, as getting the exact same colour on a wall that was painted X years ago is nearly impossible (paint fades over time).
> 
> And holidays do happen.


I understand this, usually what I will do is just use the brush and spot prime the patches. I just dab the brush to give it the roller stipple . then just apply one one coat.

Pat


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

Workaholic said:


> Yeah but you can spot prime to eliminate this.


I can still see flashing after spot priming and one coat. But i'm picky about stuff like that. :whistling2:

Double priming before 1 topcoat might work, but good luck finding all the patches you only spot primed once :laughing:


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Durability



One coat of SELF PRIMING is not durable enough? 

lol...

if it peels or blisters then it's warranted and the labor is extra... job security? lol....


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Durability


I have to disagree with this. Two coats will show the same dirt marks, same chips from bumping stuff into it, same crayon drawings from the kids, some boogers from the older kids. 

Say you do a job, in one room you apply one coat, and in the other room you apply two coats. both rooms are the same color and both rooms will receive the same new color. In 7 years from now, will the room you painted two coats be good enough to where it does not need anything? 

Pat


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

But not the same scrubbilty


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

ewingpainting.net said:


> But not the same scrubbilty


Or wahsability



or lookability :jester:


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

ewingpainting.net said:


> But not the same scrubbilty


Remember I'm talking about a flat finish here. I hear it all the time from customers who want something that is washable. 9/10 times they never will wash it, they might when its brand new but typically then never do chit 

Pat


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

PatsPainting said:


> 9/10 times they never will wash it, they might when its brand new but typically then never do chit
> 
> Pat


ain't that the truth :laughing:


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

I just think for the most part, doing two coats of the same color over something similar is just overkill, the cost for the extra coat does not even come close for the small amount of benefits they will receive.

Pat


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

PatsPainting said:


> Remember I'm talking about a flat finish here. I hear it all the time from customers who want something that is washable. 9/10 times they never will wash it, they might when its brand new but typically then never do chit
> 
> Pat


Aww which is why I sad scrubbabilty. Which means the more scrubbable the more wear it can have. Therefore making it more durable


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

There is a difference in painting to get a check and painting to build a business. We dont use "self priming paint" to prime to skip a coat nor do we paint only one coat unless it is called for in the spec's. 

I just recently had a HO tell me that the three other bids only had one coat of Duration for the trim (I posted a thread about this one) but mine had two. He wanted to know if I cut it to one coat how much would I take off the price (I was the highest bidder). I told him that the job needed two coats and I wouldn't do the job unless it was two coats. He was impressed with the fact that I would sooner walk from a job than compromise the quality of the work.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

http://www.contractortalk.com/f8/standard-defines-2-coats-3561/


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

NEPS.US said:


> There is a difference in painting to get a check and painting to build a business. We dont use "self priming paint" to prime to skip a coat nor do we paint only one coat unless it is called for in the spec's.


There is also a difference of being honest to your customer and not bs'ng them to keep your painters busy. typically it will take 2/3 longer to apply a 2nd coat, does this extra cost benefit the customer or does it benefit the contractor? I always try to look out for the customer even if it makes my contracts smaller. For me this this helps build my business for the long run.

Pat


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

PatsPainting said:


> There is also a difference of being honest to your customer and not bs'ng them to keep your painters busy. typically it will take 2/3 longer to apply a 2nd coat, does this extra cost benefit the customer or does it benefit the contractor? I always try to look out for the customer even if it makes my contracts smaller. For me this this helps build my business for the long run.
> 
> Pat


I find that the second coat takes 30% of the time it takes to do the first one. It makes good business sense (both financially and quality-wise) to do the second coat. JMO.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

Rcon said:


> I find that the second coat takes 30% of the time it takes to do the first one. It makes good business sense (both financially and quality-wise) to do the second coat. JMO.



So if it takes you 1 hour to cut and roll a 12x12 room, it only takes you 18 minutes to do it again?

Pat


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

PatsPainting said:


> There is also a difference of being honest to your customer and not bs'ng them to keep your painters busy. typically it will take 2/3 longer to apply a 2nd coat, does this extra cost benefit the customer or does it benefit the contractor? I always try to look out for the customer even if it makes my contracts smaller. For me this this helps build my business for the long run.
> 
> Pat


Please dont quote me and question my honesty.


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

PatsPainting said:


> So if it takes you 1 hour to cut and roll a 12x12 room, it only takes you 18 minutes to do it again?
> 
> Pat


Sounds about right...

I can always make a video :jester: :thumbup:


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

Rcon said:


> Sounds about right...
> 
> I can always make a video :jester: :thumbup:


Ok fair enough, so is the cost for the second coat only 30% higher then if you gave a quote for one coat?

btw - you do have some cool videos

Pat


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

NEPS.US said:


> There is a difference in painting to get a check and painting to build a business. We dont use "self priming paint" to prime to skip a coat nor do we paint only one coat unless it is called for in the spec's.
> 
> I just recently had a HO tell me that the three other bids only had one coat of Duration for the trim (I posted a thread about this one) but mine had two. He wanted to know if I cut it to one coat how much would I take off the price (I was the highest bidder). I told him that the job needed two coats and I wouldn't do the job unless it was two coats. He was impressed with the fact that I would sooner walk from a job than compromise the quality of the work.


I agree. I think you'd be cheating the client if you didn't stand by your quality. And who wants a client that's focused on cutting corners for a better price. I'm usually high bid and have walked from jobs knowing I could have gotten the job if I did cave. 

Pat, who's cheating who? I'm walking to maintain my quality. Others are selling a one coat half azzed job.


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

PatsPainting said:


> Ok fair enough, so is the cost for the second coat only 30% higher then if you gave a quote for one coat?
> 
> btw - you do have some cool videos
> 
> Pat


I don't sell 1 coat jobs, but if I were to, i'd charge probably 85% of what i'd charge for 2. All the time is in the first coat: the prep, the set up, the materials, the overhead etc etc etc. 

And honestly, how could I reasonably warranty a 1 coat job for 2 years? (which is my advertised warranty).


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

ewingpainting.net said:


> I agree. I think you'd be cheating the client if you didn't stand by your quality. And who wants a client that's focused on cutting corners for a better price. I'm usually high bid and have walked from jobs knowing I could have gotten the job if I did cave.
> 
> Pat, who's cheating who? I'm walking to maintain my quality. Others are selling a one coat half azzed job.



Good question. If I was a customer and contractor told me he will do nothing less then two coats, his price was 2000 dollars more then the guy who said one coat. And I asked a simple question of what is the benefits of having the second coat? He told me durability and washable. I sat there for a minute and realized during the ten years I have lived here, not once have I washed the walls. I asked him if he could just do one coat, he said No and good luck. I would say ok, thanks for your time. To me that extra 2000 bucks is just a waist of money that is not needed.

Remember I'm talking about flat walls that are going to receive something similar or the same color.

Pat


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

PatsPainting said:


> Good question. If I was a customer and contractor told me he will do nothing less then two coats, his price was 2000 dollars more then the guy who said one coat. And I asked a simple question of what is the benefits of having the second coat? He told me durability and washable. I sat there for a minute and realized during the ten years I have lived here, not once have I washed the walls. I asked him if he could just do one coat, he said No and good luck. I would say ok, thanks for your time. To me that extra 2000 bucks is just a waist of money that is not needed.
> 
> Remember I'm talking about flat walls that are going to receive something similar or the same color.
> 
> Pat


My example was a exterior that had not been painted in 8 years. 

I have never had a customer request flat walls of the same color to be repainted with one coat. This sounds more like apt flips.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Pat I never question washabilty. Srubbabilty is way different than washabilty


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

NEPS.US said:


> My example was a exterior that had not been painted in 8 years.
> 
> I have never had a customer request flat walls of the same color to be repainted with one coat. This sounds more like apt flips.


No need to take anything personal here - was not meant to be that way. Plus its friday night with a long weekend ahead of us. So a little extra stab or a poke is allowed here. Come Tuesday I will still respect ya just like I always have. You are one of a few here that I try to read all your posts when your talking about business. 

I'm just trying to find out what are the benefits of a second coat to flat walls with little or no color change. All I have heard is washable and durability. 

Pat


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

PatsPainting said:


> I'm just trying to find out what are the benefits of a second coat to flat walls with little or no color change. All I have heard is washable and durability.
> 
> Pat


I would say there are no benefits unless touch up quality could be an issue down the road.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Pat I never question washabilty. Srubbabilty is way different than washabilty



Well I need to do a experiment then. Some time soon I will buy a few 4x4 pieces of drywall, Will prime and apply one coat to one of them, and will apply a second coat to the second one. I will then rub a little dirt on both of them, let it sit for a few days and then try and scrub them off. I will take photos of before and after, and post them here to see what the real difference is. 

The product I will use is Aura matt finish

Pat


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

So what about doing 2 coats dry vs wet? I don't dare ask Rob, he watching Green Zone!:jester:


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Pat, do you know the deference between a scrubbable paint and a washable paint. All paints are scrubbed tested. Do a scrub test (NOT a wash test) on 1 coat verses 2 coats.


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## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

PatsPainting said:


> No need to take anything personal here - was not meant to be that way. Plus its friday night with a long weekend ahead of us. So a little extra stab or a poke is allowed here. Come Tuesday I will still respect ya just like I always have. You are one of a few here that I try to read all your posts when your talking about business.
> 
> I'm just trying to find out what are the benefits of a second coat to flat walls with little or no color change. All I have heard is washable and durability.
> 
> Pat


No benies for an extra coat of flat. 1 coat flat, top coat eggshell - maybe...


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

Use behr premium plus. That stuff is awesome.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

Rcon said:


> Use behr premium plus. That stuff is awesome.


Why, I ought to just ban you right now!


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

RCP said:


> Why, I ought to just ban you right now!


:lol:


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Pat, do you know the deference between a scrubbable paint and a washable paint. All paints are scrubbed tested. Do a scrub test (NOT a wash test) on 1 coat verses 2 coats.


To be honest they seem to be the same thing to me. Maybe I am missing something here. What is the difference?

Pat


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## BC_Painter (Feb 14, 2010)

Rcon said:


> Use behr premium plus. That stuff is awesome.



At least I'm not the only one that thought so


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

PatsPainting said:


> To be honest they seem to be the same thing to me. Maybe I am missing something here. What is the difference?
> 
> Pat


This is a tricky word paint manufactures use, simply for marketing. They put on the label scrubbable flat giving the impression it's washable. It's not, meaning you can't wash it. That simple. Scrubbable means just what it is. SCRUB, meaning its can handle more scrub. A scrub is a rub with a brillow pad. Which is a Durability test not a washable test. So with one coat verses two coats you are cutting back on the amount of scrubs it can handle making it less durable.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

ewingpainting.net said:


> This is a tricky word paint manufactures use, simply for marketing. They put on the label scrubbable flat giving the impression it's washable. It's not, meaning you can't wash it. That simple. Scrubbable means just what it is. SCRUB, meaning its can handle more scrub. A scrub is a rub with a brillow pad. Which is a Durability test not a washable test. So with one coat verses two coats you are cutting back on the amount of scrubs it can handle making it less durable.


Very cool, appreciate this. I had no idea. Completely makes sense that two coats would handle more scrubs then one.

again thanks for the info

Pat


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

PatsPainting said:


> Very cool, appreciate this. I had no idea. Completely makes sense that two coats would handle more scrubs then one.
> 
> again thanks for the info
> 
> Pat


No thank you Pat, now that I know what angle those that apply one coat coverage. Now I can tune up my sales presentation.
.
Pat I understand what you are saying and have no doubt you turn a great product. It's matter of what you prefer and what you want to sell your client. I firmly believe that a two coat system will out last a one coat. And can withstand the wear more than a one coat system.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

ewingpainting.net said:


> No thank you Pat, now that I know what angle those that apply one coat coverage. Now I can tune up my sales presentation.
> .
> Pat I understand what you are saying and have no doubt you turn a great product. It's matter of what you prefer and what you want to sell your client. I firmly believe that a two coat system will out last a one coat. And can withstand the wear more than a one coat system.


I have no doubt that two coats is better then one. No question there. The tricky part is when we are out there doing our estimates and trying to read what the customer is looking for. This is where I need to use my judgment and determine if extra cost for the second coat is well worth it for the customer. If I think its worth it then I will bid for two coats or maybe add a option for a second coat with explaining the benefits. Something I always do when biding exterior projects. But if I don't think the extra cost for the second coat will benefit the customer then I will explain to them why.

Pat


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Rcon said:


> I can still see flashing after spot priming and one coat. But i'm picky about stuff like that. :whistling2:
> 
> Double priming before 1 topcoat might work, but good luck finding all the patches you only spot primed once :laughing:


Tone sure is hard to read sometimes on here.

For flat the same color after a spot prime that has properly dried and then painted over usually they blend properly unless there is an extreme natural light situation. 

I think you may have misunderstood me that I am speaking in the same language as Pat that there is no need for two coats and that is not the case I am simply giving an option to the flashing that you mentioned.

I would also say that if you were using eggshell and had already painted a coat and found a spot that needed some mud a double spot prime is required before the second coat. 



NEPS.US said:


> I have never had a customer request flat walls of the same color to be repainted with one coat. This sounds more like apt flips.


I run into it from time to time on condo rentals and townhouse rentals where a maintenance coat is what the customer want. This is not a cheap apartment paint job or a house flip but simply a freshening up.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

Workaholic said:


> I think you may have misunderstood me that I am speaking in the same language as Pat that there is no need for two coats and that is not the case I am simply giving an option to the flashing that you mentioned.


Just to set the record here, I'm not applying that a second coat is not needed. I just think there are situations where the cost of the second coat is not warranted. nor is it in the best interest of the customer. Meaning the cost out weighs the benefits for their particular needs. 

Pat


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

Two coats ALWAYS for interiors unless your reapplying the same paint/color and sheen. 2 for exteriors can be situational. Btw... I can paint a single coat without any flashing. Period. It's not hard to accomplish. It's all about the Millage and dry time...


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

PatsPainting said:


> Just to set the record here, I'm not applying that a second coat is not needed. I just think there are situations where the cost of the second coat is not warranted. nor is it in the best interest of the customer. Meaning the cost out weighs the benefits for their particular needs.
> 
> Pat


Interior:
About the only time I offer a one coat on the walls is when it is going the same color and I know it is a rental property and then I ask if they were wanting one coat or two on the walls. Owner residence I spec it for two and give them just that. With that said I prefer to use satin's or eggshell rather than flat.

The two coats is more durable and as pointed out takes care of any possible shallow areas or holidays.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

PatsPainting said:


> Just to set the record here, I'm not applying that a second coat is not needed. I just think there are situations where the cost of the second coat is not warranted. nor is it in the best interest of the customer. Meaning the cost out weighs the benefits for their particular needs.
> 
> Pat


I agree Pat, but I think this situation is very rare. Most the time when someone wants their interior repainted it's a color change. Or if it is the same color, the surface is in need of 2 coats due to the wear. I have yet to bid a job where it was a one coat finish. Like I said in a post in this thread. I have done a one coat, it was same color, same sheen, same product.


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## StefanC (Apr 29, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Two coats ALWAYS for interiors unless your reapplying the same paint/color and sheen. 2 for exteriors can be situational. Btw... I can paint a single coat without any flashing. Period. It's not hard to accomplish. It's all about the Millage and dry time...


I still don't understand why you would insist on 2 for interior and think that 1 is ok sometimes for exterior. I did a maint. job last month on a clients home that we painted 5 years ago with Duration satin. I prepped and 2 coated it the exact same color with Aura sg last month. After the first coat it looked good but the second coat made a difference in aesthetics at the very least. At most leaving one coat would have detrimental effects on the life of the coating. 

So using arguably the best exterior paint on the market, over the second best paint on the market, using the same color, I could still see a visible need for an additional coat. I think that may say something. 

I'm not saying that everyone would see a problem with one coat but I definitely saw one. And honestly, a second coat doesn't take enough time to warrant skipping it, especially on an exterior application that needs to hold up to the elements.

For interiors, I could see doing one coat for an apartment turnover in the same color or a clean-up coat (same-color)for someone selling their house. That's about the extent of it though, I would never let a homeowner bargain with me into a 1 coat color change. I would walk like NEPS and others have said. I just don't do that sheety work.


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

You may as well take Duration off the market... After all who would pay for two coats of a lifetime product that only requires one coat, and as a contractor I am not interested in the extra cost. I doubt my market would justify it either... 

Most HO's don't know the acceptable results from one coat to two.... With Duration, you guys' second coat is primarily cosmeticly driven (that's not a bad thing, yes, if your coatings are flashing then take appropriate action to fix it). Sure a second coat is more durable but not necessary. If you take into account that most homes are painted between 5 and 10 years, then durability is a non issue. Again, situational. If you have a house that is 10 - 30 miles into the mountains of the Rockies, most likely the house isn't being painted much more than every 15-20 years of which is a situation to give more attention to durability and long term maintenance free procedures. 

Putting one coat of Duration on an exterior is acceptable according to the specs and warranted... 

If you can't apply a single coat of paint without flashing then are you really giving an adequate coat of paint? The only time I seen any flashing in my work of spraying on a single coat was when an area was not adequately covered.


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

Ever hear about a painter that put's on a first "light" coat then another light to medium coat as a second? The second coat takes care of the flashing of the first coat... duh... flashing was because of inadequate coverage on that first coat.

I am so accustom to using Duration, that I have trained myself to give adequate coverage to eliminate flashing. It's something I have pretty much mastered. That's just how I paint. Not saying other painters are doing it wrong.


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## StefanC (Apr 29, 2009)

For piece of mind, I prefer to 2 coat it all. I have gone back on enough prematurely failed paint jobs done by other painters that I can easily educate my clients on a proper, 2 coat job. 

On top of that, I guarantee that 2 coats of duration will last longer then one, even though only 1 is required at 7 mils (or something) for the lifetime warranty.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

If you're selling an exterior job and you're only doing one coat, how do you present the mfg warranty? People around here want to see the mfg warranty for 15/25/Lifetime in writing. And, the warranty is most always based on mil thickness.

Exteriors have always been a two-coat job for me, even after priming. If the customer cant handle the cost then he can find a one-coat, blow and go hack.


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

The label on Duration may not be specific but the brochure is adamant about one coat:

Just say-n.... :whistling2:


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

What is the required mills for warranty jason?


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

PDS is not very clear Jason. You should ask your rep what the required mills are. The PDS say's up to 7.0 mils wet; 2.8 mils dft, which will need 2 coats to achieve "up to 7.0 mils wet; 2.8 mils dft"


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

Jason, you could theoritically and by definition add 20 gallons of water and still perform "1 coat" the mil thickness is key and essential to the warranty. << which is still manufacturer's discretion... :no: :no: :no:


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

Some valid points here.


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## brushmonkey (Jan 4, 2010)

The only sure thing your going to get blowing on a single coat of any paint on any job is a call back from a pissed off client finding holidays & flashes after your gone. Might as as well say screw backrolling while yer at it..think of all the savings of doing a POS job...NOT!
Im actually thinking of just throwing 5 gallon buckets at exteriors & clapping like a seal & screaming.." you can make the check out to Epic.." Really though... if your in the paint biz.. 2 coats is what it takes for any repaint. New const= heavy solid primer coat (tinted makes life easier) & two QUALITY BRAND PAINT topcoats. (Or 4 coats if your a cheap fk using some bargain depot st paint in which case you should be shot on sight & fed to small rabid critters... IMO.. Thankfully... not many on this forum are lame enough to blow a single coat & sleep well. 

Ok...rant over :jester:


Woodland said:


> On exterior repaints, I firmly believe in and always bid for two coats. What are you guys doing?


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Good point. You've got me think-n....
> 
> I actual grab-d a can this evening looking for that one coat coverage bs... Nope... didn't find it.
> 
> ...


Not sure about "Duration"? I looked too the other night at work, but I was using "Duration Home" interior. Says "Lifetime warranty" when applied according to manufacters specifications. Couldnt find anything about one or two coats. I do remember "Super Paint" used to say when two coats are applied. Not sure if it still does? That was way back when Super Paint was still new and was still like a 15 or 20 yr paint and A-100 was only an 8 yr paint. Havent really read a label in a while. Anyway, in this thread I was mainly refering to exterior repaints. I noticed only one person so far chose one coat. Curious where all my competitors are? I always seem to be bidding against guys only doing one coat so I'm always the high bid, and if I didnt take the time to educate my customers on what I do, I would never get any jobs.


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## BC_Painter (Feb 14, 2010)

I don't mind doing a maintenance coat for customers from time to time.

Usually on these I will only do 1 coat where the substrate is in immaculate shape, same color etc.

More common on exteriors than interiors since with all the little drywall dings, patching, priming, trying to make the patches not flash, it's almost EASIER to do full coats then screw around covering patches and then have the patches flash through the one coat job. 

On en exterior that is in good shape and a customer does a maintenance coat every few years, I don't mind, and anywhere that isn't in optimal shape will get 2 coats, or prime +2 etc. whatever is suitable for the product and application.

I am on my first "1 coat" job in 4 years at the moment


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

PatsPainting said:


> Just wondering here - what are the benefits of applying two coats of flat finish on a wall that is the same or similar color as the new color?
> 
> Pat


mil thickness, durability for exterior, flashing, longevity, the list goes on and on and on and on..................


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

How much more durability do you need without the paint becoming too brittle due to the MULTIPLE layers of paint from years of repainting? 

There's seems to be at minimum, 2 different colors of paint on most homes I repaint. I don't think durability is an issue.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> How much more durability do you need without the paint becoming too brittle due to the MULTIPLE layers of paint from years of repainting?
> 
> There's seems to be at minimum, 2 different colors of paint on most homes I repaint. I don't think durability is an issue.


On the older homes, with enough layers of paint it will evenually fail. For me, the biggest concern is color retention. That is one of the things I like about BM using the water based colorants. Probably 90% of my jobs are HardiPlank being painted for the first time since the original paint job during construction. I'm looking for something that wont fade as quick.


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

Woodland said:


> On the older homes, with enough layers of paint it will evenually fail. For me, the biggest concern is color retention. Probably 90% of my jobs are HardiPlank being painted for the first time since the original paint job during construction. I'm looking for something that wont fade as quick.


That's why I like Super Paint. It's ability to not fade and warranted for it. :thumbsup:

Although Duration isn't warranted against fading, I have yet to see it fade.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Jason, I have never seen paint become to brittle over multiple coats. Cheap paint, yes. Paint thinned out, yes. But I have never seen it get brittle over multi layers


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

I have seen it brittle, especially on fascia boards (trim). Siding not so much, and usually the house is 100yrs old when I find it on siding... 

Brittle or not, durability on a multi painted home is still a non issue. When it comes down to it, we really are talking about protecting the product the paint is being applied to and the durability of the paint to protect that product right?

Define durability when it comes to paint on a home. I can bet that most cases on repaints is not due to lack of durability.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Jason, I'm just say'n I never seen a failure due to multi layers. I've seen it fail due to applying over paint that is not adhering, due to not prepping right. Just wanted to know what you meant. 

I'm also not saying you don't turn over a good product. I'm sure you do. 
Durability is the ability to endure with a long usable life.


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

Oh, no... no offense or anything of the like. 

I'm merely asking these questions so that we can validate and learn what it is to have a durable product and what disqualifies a product being repainted over as being not durable.

No problem... Just throwing this stuff out so that we all can learn from it or be refreshed in our minds about it.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Does anyone here at least one coat during the day?


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

NEPS.US said:


> Does anyone here at least one coat during the day?


No NEPS! We just hang out waiting for you too post, so we know what direction we need to go for the next day. Even though you seem to have all the work.  I hope I can one coat tomarrow


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

NEPS.US said:


> Does anyone here at least one coat during the day?


LOL Kinda makes one wonder seeing as how we all never seem to leave Paint Talk.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

"Because your allways on my mind":whistling2:


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

doesnt anyone do the full 5 coats anymore?


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

high fibre said:


> doesnt anyone do the full 5 coats anymore?


Maybe Alaskan's ..... ??

I'd put on 5 coats living up there... Brrrr!


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## VanDamme (Feb 13, 2010)

NEPS.US said:


> Does anyone here at least one coat during the day?


I quarter coat.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

VanDamme said:


> I quarter coat.


Can I get a quarter? What's a quarter cost now'a days?


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2008)

VanDamme said:


> I quarter coat.


I see it already; your on a corner of a suburban housing development with a sign saying "painter for higher! 25 cent per coat"... :jester:


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Neps I only freshcoat, and I know you do also.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

:lol: :laughing: :lol:
I take it that was no joke since I didn't see a :jester:


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Yeah, I said that for Chris, I know he will understand that.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

had some new construction stuff today at this place I do alot of stuff at. I primed over new drywall and orange peel and did one full coat of finish, 2 full coats of finish on the inside smooth non textured walls. These offices get so dusty from welding dust from the factory that the office connects with. I think the textured walls will pass with just one finish coat. 

I'll let the project coordinator look at it and let me know if hes ok with it. If he is than I am, after all, hes the one that basically authorizes the check, and thats what its about. If hes happy, I'm happy. Sometimes it just don't matter, sometimes it does.


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