# I had a ceiling go south on me, and I think I know what I should do



## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

Having an issue with a bedroom ceiling.
I skimmed it personally with green top mud, sanded , spotted then gardz it. 

First coat of paint went on like glass. 

When to roll second coat the next day(today) and it was like rolling on mud despite adding alittle water. Once the paint was on the ceiling it just wouldn't spread.

It was eminence and my first time trying it despite the poor reviews. 


The dryed stipple looked like knockdown. So I got my 6" RO and sanded it flat. 

Vac'd it then rolled a coat of PPG ceiling paint on. 

Now it's drying inconsistently, some areas are heavy stipple and others laid down and dryed flat despite the wet film looking consistent after laying it off. 

I've been using a 3/8 arrow microfiber with success prior to this on small smooth ceilings like this bedroom (12x10). 

I don't know if pole sanding then another coat with a 1/2 nap will fix it or do I start over and reskim?

I have a feeling the 6" RO sander scalloped the stipple unevenly and now will be looking at a do over.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

Uh....ok. sounds like you have a great plan. Hit it with a pole sander and use a 1/2" and see what happens. We (at least i) have no idea from behind this screen.


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## 007 Dave (Jun 22, 2016)

Oh man that is frustrating.I would think that you did everything right. I've used eminence a lot and always like the way it went on. Most the time I use PPG PP9585 ceiling paint and have not had trouble with it either. But I don't use microfiber with flat paint. I use Wooster 50/50 with flat. I would not think the microfiber would have caused this. But If you are going to used another roller maybe try the Wooster 50/50. Let us know what you did and how you fixed it. Tomorrow will be a better day.


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## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

Yea I'll let you guys know how it goes tomorrow. 
I'll roll it with a 1/2". I have a 9/16 arrow micro and a 1/2" white dove on me.

I think I got a bad gallon of eminence or something. It went on just fine over the gardz. 

The only thing I did different was I used a 5 gallon and a new grid because I didn't have my Wooster buckets. Maybe the brand new grid fluffed the nap?


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

I have never experienced this issue. You skimmed it, used guardz, and had a perfect 1st coat. First coat was completely dry. Then the 2nd coat went bad. Sounds like it must be the paint. I can think of no other reason.


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## PNW Painter (Sep 5, 2013)

Your first coat was easy to roll because Gardz sealed the surface. The paint sat on top of the Gardz rather than soaked into it. When you applied the second coat of Eminence it was soaking into the the first coat. Did you notice that it was drying a lot faster than the first coat?

Eminence is a thick, heavy bodied paint. Put it on heavy, move quickly and it'll go well. The 9/16 roller will also help a lot. 




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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

sayn3ver said:


> Yea I'll let you guys know how it goes tomorrow.
> I'll roll it with a 1/2". I have a 9/16 arrow micro and a 1/2" white dove on me.
> 
> I think I got a bad gallon of eminence or something. It went on just fine over the gardz.
> ...


 
They are ALL bad, IMO.:whistling2:


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## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

Yes. Obviously the first coat would be easier to roll then the second. 

The plan was for 1 coat. However, despite eminence's "high hide one coat coverage" marketing and the nice wet even first coat, the eminence didn't fully cover a couple of pencil marks that resided below the gardz. 





PNW Painter said:


> Your first coat was easy to roll because Gardz sealed the surface. The paint sat on top of the Gardz rather than soaked into it. When you applied the second coat of Eminence it was soaking into the the first coat. Did you notice that it was drying a lot faster than the first coat?
> 
> Eminence is a thick, heavy bodied paint. Put it on heavy, move quickly and it'll go well. The 9/16 roller will also help a lot.
> 
> ...


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## PNW Painter (Sep 5, 2013)

In the future you can touch up small spots. Eminence touches up well.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

chrisn said:


> They are ALL bad, IMO.:whistling2:


whaaaat? What kind of attitude is that from a paint super hero?


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

I've always heard that Eminence is great paint. At least from the SW store people and their zombie painter hoard.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

go back to Sw, have them put 1/48oz of black, 1/48oz of umber, and 1/48oz of yellow oxide in a gallon of Promar 400 flat and use that. Jeez do I gotta do everything for those people?


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

PACman said:


> whaaaat? What kind of attitude is that from a paint super hero?


 
ahhh, honest:yes:


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

PACman said:


> I've always heard that Eminence is great paint. At least from the SW store people and their zombie painter hoard.


they lie


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

sayn3ver said:


> Yes. Obviously the first coat would be easier to roll then the second.
> 
> The plan was for 1 coat. However, despite eminence's "high hide one coat coverage" marketing and the nice wet even first coat, the eminence didn't fully cover a couple of pencil marks that resided below the gardz.


Which is why PRIMER is used in most circumstances. If you had used 123 rather than gardz, you'd be done...just sayin.


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## AngieM (Apr 13, 2016)

I'm sure I'll get flack for being a CHB fan, but I've never had coverage problems with it. I spray all ceilings unless it's very impractical to do so. 
My SW rep tried switching me to eminence and I had the same hide problem. It's the equivalent to A100 to me. Whitewash. No thanks.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

AngieM said:


> I'm sure I'll get flack for being a CHB fan, but I've never had coverage problems with it. I spray all ceilings unless it's very impractical to do so.
> My SW rep tried switching me to eminence and I had the same hide problem. It's the equivalent to A100 to me. Whitewash. No thanks.


It's amazing how well those cheap flat white work on ceilings isn't it? CHB is naturally off shaded because of the cheaper (then Titanium Dioxide) pigments they use in it. Covers ok and has no flashing. 

When a sales rep tries to get you to switch to a high end ceiling paint. he either doesn't know what he is doing or he is just trying to make a couple bucks more off of you. Leave the expensive ceiling paints to the diy'ers that don't know any better and just use the cheapest flat white that you can get that hides decently.


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

Well, as far as ceiling paints go, there is (stay calm Pacman!) Behr Pro i100 dead flat from Home Depot. It used to be labeled under the Kilz brand. Anyway, it works well, it's inexpensive, and it doesn't even have primer in it!

I tried Eminence once and did not care for it as I found it really lacking as far as hide.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

SemiproJohn said:


> (stay calm Pacman!)


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

SemiproJohn said:


> Well, as far as ceiling paints go, there is (stay calm Pacman!) Behr Pro i100 dead flat from Home Depot. It used to be labeled under the Kilz brand. Anyway, it works well, it's inexpensive, and it doesn't even have primer in it!
> 
> I tried Eminence once and did not care for it as I found it really lacking as far as hide.


actually for the price the i100 is a pretty good ceiling paint. Dead flat and covers ok. It is a pretty grayed off white though but that normally isn't an issue on ceilings. ( I can beat the price with something better though.)


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

The whole second coat going on like joint compound thing, sounds weird to me. Are you sure you didn't dump a hand full of fast set in it for better coverage? If so, I' apologize for even suggesting it in another thread.


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

PACman said:


> It's amazing how well those cheap flat white work on ceilings isn't it? CHB is naturally off shaded because of the cheaper (then Titanium Dioxide) pigments they use in it. Covers ok and has no flashing.
> 
> When a sales rep tries to get you to switch to a high end ceiling paint. he either doesn't know what he is doing or he is just trying to make a couple bucks more off of you. Leave the expensive ceiling paints to the diy'ers that don't know any better and just use the cheapest flat white that you can get that hides decently.


I have used plenty of cheap flats for ceiling and they do work fine. It's the dry time that slows you down for 1-3 room repaints. BM 508 is a good premium ceiling paint, a true flat with great hide. Have to work fast though, it dries quick. 
Also just tried PPG ceiling paint the other day. Sprayed speedhide primer and 1 coat of ceiling paint in a 40x25 open floor plan with lots of cross lighting. Both were back rolled and it looked perfect. I'll be using it again considering I can get a fiver for less then 2gal. of 508.


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## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

Update: I pole sanded it lightly. I ended up applying two more coats of PPG premium ceiling cross hatched with the 1/2" nap. 

It looks good now. Though because I know what was there I swear the stipple pattern is splotchy and inconsistent (the stipple looked perfectly even when it was wet immediately upon finishing application. 

There is a low hall way ceiling I did as well on the job. It sits at 7ft in height. Same situation as it happened the same day. However the two coats isn't doing it because the viewing angle is soo much steeper (I'm 6'1 so it almost like sighting down it when standing ) it's like flash city.

Best I can think of is that it was sanded unevenly by me, and the different thicknesses of remaining eminence abosrbs the new paint at drastically different rates. The thinner spots stay wet longer because there isn't as much film before the gardz. 

The hall I'll be redoing unfortunately.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

sayn3ver said:


> Update: I pole sanded it lightly. I ended up applying two more coats of PPG premium ceiling cross hatched with the 1/2" nap.
> 
> It looks good now. Though because I know what was there I swear the stipple pattern is splotchy and inconsistent (the stipple looked perfectly even when it was wet immediately upon finishing application.
> 
> ...


Did you come to a conclusion on what caused the second coat of Eminence to fail so miserably, in terms of application?


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## 007 Dave (Jun 22, 2016)

AngieM said:


> I'm sure I'll get flack for being a CHB fan, but I've never had coverage problems with it. I spray all ceilings unless it's very impractical to do so.
> My SW rep tried switching me to eminence and I had the same hide problem. It's the equivalent to A100 to me. Whitewash. No thanks.


Thats funny. My rep and the store manager is trying to get me to use the CHB. I used PPG PP9585 for years and SW gave me some eminence half price And I liked it. I liked the brightness of it. so they gave me a price around $19 a gallon 
until one day I went in and it was almost $30. So I switched back to Porter where I get that for under $13 a gallon. The manager asked me one day why I haven't bought any Eminence in a while So I told him why and he said I need to try their CHB. He can give it to me for what I am buying the 9585 for Every once in a while he'll ask me if I'm ready to try it yet.I say :no: Just not yet.


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## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

Honestly I don't know. Either it was a bad batch from the plant (thicker than normal? Never used it before so I don't know) or I'm just a retard? 

I have used sw classic 99 paint before. I used to use mab's ceiling paint in the blue/white can a long time ago. I loved that stuff. For all I know it was a rebranded SW product. I don't remember if mab was bought out at that point or not. 

Honestly rolling out flat ceiling paint should be idiot proof in such a small room. I've even used behrs product in the past without a hitch. 

The eminence was almost starting to tack no sooner then I could get it up on the ceiling. Not like I was playing with it and it set up....ID dip and get it up on there and before I could think about trying to make a pass to spread it it was tacky. 

Old product? The store I use is a low volume residential geared store. Never see anyone in there. There are two other locations in the area that do more volume and one is considered there commercial store I guess, which is where this one has been ordering me ka+ products from. This one is just conveinient because it's about 2 miles from home. 

I'm going to use the PPG store from now on when I can. The owner seems nice, and gave a great price I thought considering he didn't know me at all.


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## 007 Dave (Jun 22, 2016)

sayn3ver said:


> Honestly I don't know. Either it was a bad batch from the plant (thicker than normal? Never used it before so I don't know) or I'm just a retard?
> 
> I have used sw classic 99 paint before. I used to use mab's ceiling paint in the blue/white can a long time ago. I loved that stuff. For all I know it was a rebranded SW product. I don't remember if mab was bought out at that point or not.
> 
> ...


Is it possible maybe that ceiling was under a real hot attic with not much insulation. Your last post reminded me of a job a couple years ago I was painting or attempting to paint dry wall to a sky light. The sky lights were put in by the home owner and just a framed box from a flat 8'ceiling up to the roof top. and dry wall finished. I used ceiling paint , Kilz, regular dry wall primer and nothing would stay on it. It started cracking and peeling before I got off my ladder.It would have been a funny video if it wasn't so frustrating. It was like watching a time laps video right before your eyes.I even tried brushing the whole thing. It still peel before I got done. I finally gave up and did not charge her for painting them.


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## jr.sr. painting (Dec 6, 2013)

Just seeing if anyone has used the product from manufacturer roman rx35. I have checked all the stores (major paint retailers, big box, mama/pop) nobody stocks guardz. If you have used both how do they compare? I'm using it on a large kitchen/family rm ceiling with a lot of natural light is there that big of a difference. All im looking for is to seal my mud spots and slow the dry time of my topcoat 400 flat


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

jr.sr. painting said:


> Just seeing if anyone has used the product from manufacturer roman rx35. I have checked all the stores (major paint retailers, big box, mama/pop) nobody stocks guardz. If you have used both how do they compare? I'm using it on a large kitchen/family rm ceiling with a lot of natural light is there that big of a difference. All im looking for is to seal my mud spots and slow the dry time of my topcoat 400 flat
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I remember that coming up in conversation here not long ago....if I remember right, gardz is the preference but Roman will work...give it a go and let us know your thoughts.


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## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

Never used Roman. Some old paint talk threads discussing the 35. The they say it'll rewet. I don't want my sealer to re wet. 

I'd probably go for kil klear over the Roman.


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

sayn3ver said:


> Never used Roman. Some old paint talk threads discussing the 35. The they say it'll rewet. I don't want my sealer to re wet.
> 
> I'd probably go for kil klear over the Roman.


I'm sure it's been reformulated since then and 1 thread stating a problem shouldn't deter you. I've read of many problems on here that people have experienced, and I have not, with products I use regularly. For every complaint you hear about a product there are 20 others that are using it with no issues. Ever notice how more often threads are about issues, threads praising products are less common.
Romans has been around awhile and the rx35 is also wallcovering primer/sizing. Give it a try, you may just find another useful product that you would otherwise have ignored. I may also be completely wrong and it's junk but only one way too know!


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## jr.sr. painting (Dec 6, 2013)

I used the rx35 yesterday it took a while to dry probably about an hour with 5 fans on it. Large ceiling to roll for one person. Family rm, kitchen, front hall/foyer. Probably 600 sq ft. I decided to put a second coat on to really seal all my mud work and slow the drying time of my topcoat. Planned on one day for this job but just didn't happen. I will topcoat twice today. Does guardz take a long time to dry/ recoat/ topcoat?


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

jr.sr. painting said:


> I used the rx35 yesterday it took a while to dry probably about an hour with 5 fans on it. Large ceiling to roll for one person. Family rm, kitchen, front hall/foyer. Probably 600 sq ft. I decided to put a second coat on to really seal all my mud work and slow the drying time of my topcoat. Planned on one day for this job but just didn't happen. I will topcoat twice today. Does guardz take a long time to dry/ recoat/ topcoat?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Should be about the same as what you experienced with the Roman


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