# BEHR Alkyd Semi-Gloss Enamel



## Nabinko (Aug 3, 2015)

Curious as to if anyone has any experience with the Behr Acrylic Alkyd? 
Going to pick up a gal to try out.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

are you serious?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Nabinko said:


> Curious as to if anyone has any experience with the Behr Acrylic Alkyd?
> Going to pick up a gal to try out.


You might find it to be a little "draggy" according to the site experts.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

The Behr pro line is good stuff. I haven't used it much but so far I'm impressed. Marque and the pro lines is all we use from Behr. Plus our pricing makes it worth it when we do use it.

Their other lines I've tried and wasn't that pleased.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Nabinko said:


> Curious as to if anyone has any experience with the Behr Acrylic Alkyd?
> Going to pick up a _gal_ to try out.


I used to do that when I was younger and single, especially on Friday nights. :whistling2: Not really sure why you'd throw that little personal tidbit in there after a paint question, but I'll wish you good luck anyway. 

As to the acrylic/alkyd paint, I'm betting it'll be draggy to brush as CA suggested. If you're spraying I would imagine it'll do fine once you find the sweet spot of thinning/Floetrol or whatever it takes to make it work right. I'd be wary of cure times. They can be deceptively slow with these types of paint.


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## Nabinko (Aug 3, 2015)

chrisn said:


> are you serious?


Yes I am serious. Have you ever used it?


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## Nabinko (Aug 3, 2015)

slinger58 said:


> I used to do that when I was younger and single, especially on Friday nights. :whistling2: Not really sure why you'd throw that little personal tidbit in there after a paint question, but I'll wish you good luck anyway.


Lol... I didn't even realize how that sounded. 



slinger58 said:


> As to the acrylic/alkyd paint, I'm betting it'll be draggy to brush as CA suggested. If you're spraying I would imagine it'll do fine once you find the sweet spot of thinning/Floetrol or whatever it takes to make it work right. I'd be wary of cure times. They can be deceptively slow with these types of paint.


I'm noticing that water based/acrylic paints do not like to be thinned. I was just playing around with some left over DTM acrylic coating, thinned it about 5% water and a few oz of Xtender and it layed down almost perfectly, Went to about 8-10% and I got micro-bubbles/pinholes on contact.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Nabinko said:


> Lol... I didn't even realize how that sounded.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm noticing that water based/acrylic paints do not like to be thinned. I was just playing around with some left over DTM acrylic coating, thinned it about 5% water and a few oz of Xtender and it layed down almost perfectly, Went to about 8-10% and I got micro-bubbles/pinholes on contact.




Depends on what you're spraying with. Airless, HVLP, conventional, AAA; it'll all be different.


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## Clearlycut (Dec 1, 2013)

Sprayed great. Drives faster then other alykd hybrids. We still do one side a day. 24 hr hardness rivels the others in the same family.


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## Clearlycut (Dec 1, 2013)

Ita not as good for brushing as others. 
Advance is superior for brushing.and kelly moores 1980 brushes the same as well.
This sprays great out of the can.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Clearlycut said:


> Ita not as good for brushing as others.
> Advance is superior for brushing.and kelly moores 1980 brushes the same as well.
> This sprays great out of the can.


As I understand it, Advance is not an acrylic/alkyd blend. It is a water carried alkyd. No acrylic in the mix. Two different animals.


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## Nabinko (Aug 3, 2015)

slinger58 said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> Depends on what you're spraying with. Airless, HVLP, conventional, AAA; it'll all be different.


Airless. 
I'm getting the hang of it and just trying to get a line-up of my go to paints for when I am limited to being on site. As far as painting goes, I'm in my shop and running an air setup HVLP or RP and every so often conventional with a pot. Mostly 2K automotive and industrial stuff. Omni, ALK-200, MPC, 2k Acrylics.




Clearlycut said:


> Ita not as good for brushing as others.
> Advance is superior for brushing.and kelly moores 1980 brushes the same as well.
> This sprays great out of the can.


 Looks great! Good to hear about it spraying nice out of the can! Thank you for the response. 



slinger58 said:


> As I understand it, Advance is not an acrylic/alkyd blend. It is a water carried alkyd. No acrylic in the mix. Two different animals.


 This is what I was first going for but it's interior only or at least that's all I could find.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Nabinko said:


> Airless.
> I'm getting the hang of it and just trying to get a line-up of my go to paints for when I am limited to being on site. As far as painting goes, I'm in my shop and running an air setup HVLP or RP and every so often conventional with a pot. Mostly 2K automotive and industrial stuff. Omni, ALK-200, MPC, 2k Acrylics.
> 
> 
> ...


Why would you want an acrylic/alkyd for exterior?


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Nabinko said:


> Yes I am serious. Have you ever used it?


are you kidding me?


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## Clearlycut (Dec 1, 2013)

slinger58 said:


> As I understand it, Advance is not an acrylic/alkyd blend. It is a water carried alkyd. No acrylic in the mix. Two different animals.


Never said it was an acrylic 
But i could see how u thought i did.
Im aware its a waterbourne alykd.

They are different.

But the are in the "hybrid" family.
At least thats how i look at it.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

slinger58 said:


> I used to do that when I was younger and single, especially on Friday nights. :whistling2: Not really sure why you'd throw that little personal tidbit in there after a paint question, but I'll wish you good luck anyway.
> 
> As to the acrylic/alkyd paint, I'm betting it'll be draggy to brush as CA suggested. If you're spraying I would imagine it'll do fine once you find the sweet spot of thinning/Floetrol or whatever it takes to make it work right. I'd be wary of cure times. They can be deceptively slow with these types of paint.


Like fingernails on a chalkboard i bet.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

just a heads up, before anyone buys into some BS marketing terms, "dual dispersion", "hybrid", "waterbourne alkyd", and "acrylic/alkyd" are in fact the exact same thing. There may be different ways to achieve it, but they are technically just marketing terms for an alkyd emulsion. Often actually a polyurethane emulsion. They've been around for years but have just recently started to come to the fore due to VOC regulations. CWF-UV is in fact an alkyd emulsion that has been on the market for 30 years or so in some parts of the country.

The "acrylic" term is used by some companies to highlight the fact that it is a water clean-up product, kind of like how years ago the term latex was thrown about to define a water clean up paint, even though there actually never was a significant amount of actual "latex" in paint.

And I have not tested this product so I actually don't have anything negative or positive to say about it. Until someone around here (Ohio, not PT) starts telling me what a miracle product it is I doubt if i will bother with it. But if it acts like a typical alkyd emulsion it will undoubtedly be a much more brushable and user friendly product then any other trim paint Behrs makes.


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## Clearlycut (Dec 1, 2013)

PACman said:


> just a heads up, before anyone buys into some BS marketing terms, "dual dispersion", "hybrid", "waterbourne alkyd", and "acrylic/alkyd" are in fact the exact same thing. There may be different ways to achieve it, but they are technically just marketing terms for an alkyd emulsion. Often actually a polyurethane emulsion. They've been around for years but have just recently started to come to the fore due to VOC regulations. CWF-UV is in fact an alkyd emulsion that has been on the market for 30 years or so in some parts of the country.
> 
> The "acrylic" term is used by some companies to highlight the fact that it is a water clean-up product, kind of like how years ago the term latex was thrown about to define a water clean up paint, even though there actually never was a significant amount of actual "latex" in paint.
> 
> And I have not tested this product so I actually don't have anything negative or positive to say about it. Until someone around here (Ohio, not PT) starts telling me what a miracle product it is I doubt if i will bother with it. But if it acts like a typical alkyd emulsion it will undoubtedly be a much more brushable and user friendly product then any other trim paint Behrs makes.


And this is why your the man.
Thank u for this.


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## Nabinko (Aug 3, 2015)

slinger58 said:


> Why would you want an acrylic/alkyd for exterior?


Entry doors, Sidelights, garage doors.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

I paid a visit to my local Home depot this morning to see if they had this product. Not only do they not have it, but according to their department manager there is no such thing as a waterborne or water clean-up alkyd paint! And he had never heard of Ben Moore Advance or the waterbourne alkyd Proclassic from SW. It is impossible to have an oil/alkyd paint be waterbourne he said. Damn I feel stupid now! 

But what about the Behr exterior oil based semitransparent stain that cleans up with water?

He didn't know it cleaned up with water. Just that it was oil based. I am cornfused!


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## Criard (Nov 23, 2013)

PACman said:


> I paid a visit to my local Home depot this morning to see if they had this product. Not only do they not have it, but according to their department manager there is no such thing as a waterborne or water clean-up alkyd paint! And he had never heard of Ben Moore Advance or the waterbourne alkyd Proclassic from SW. It is impossible to have an oil/alkyd paint be waterbourne he said. Damn I feel stupid now!
> 
> But what about the Behr exterior oil based semitransparent stain that cleans up with water?
> 
> He didn't know it cleaned up with water. Just that it was oil based. I am cornfused!



Oh come on! Why would you even attempt to have a conversation with a big box employee regarding paint?! There's nothing to be gained there. Stop patronizing them, they'll feel like they've learned something and will start attempting to give customers more wrong information. :no:


And yes, always be extremely careful when attempting to dilute these hybrid paints. They usually require a specific high pH to keep the alkyd resin from precipitating and breaking the paint; too much of anything can easily throw this off.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Criard said:


> Oh come on! Why would you even attempt to have a conversation with a big box employee regarding paint?! There's nothing to be gained there. Stop patronizing them, they'll feel like they've learned something and will start attempting to give customers more wrong information. :no:
> 
> 
> And yes, always be extremely careful when attempting to dilute these hybrid paints. They usually require a specific high pH to keep the alkyd resin from precipitating and breaking the paint; too much of anything can easily throw this off.


I like to keep tabs on my competitors, and i really wanted to get some to try it out. Also when i go in early in the morning i can check the pencil marks I put on their paint so I can tell which one/price range they are selling the most of. I do it at Lowe's and Menard's also. Can't do it at SW or PPG for obvious reasons.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Btw Criard have you heard anything about P&L getting their own version of Proclassic Hybrid? I've been hearing rumors about it for a year.


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## Criard (Nov 23, 2013)

PACman said:


> Btw Criard have you heard anything about P&L getting their own version of Proclassic Hybrid? I've been hearing rumors about it for a year.



No, I have not. We're actually working on phasing out our P&L paints and will just be carrying their Stainshield latex deck and siding stains soon. Too much product overlap between the BM we sell and our own brand paint.


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## Nabinko (Aug 3, 2015)

PACman said:


> I paid a visit to my local Home depot this morning to see if they had this product. Not only do they not have it, but according to their department manager there is no such thing as a waterborne or water clean-up alkyd paint! And he had never heard of Ben Moore Advance or the waterbourne alkyd Proclassic from SW. It is impossible to have an oil/alkyd paint be waterbourne he said. Damn I feel stupid now!
> 
> But what about the Behr exterior oil based semitransparent stain that cleans up with water?
> 
> He didn't know it cleaned up with water. Just that it was oil based. I am cornfused!


I live on the border of Wisconsin and Illinois. Illinois is strict with paint. The HD's in Wisconsin have the "Oil Alkyd Enamel" and the HD's in Illinois have the Water Based Alkyd. My SW in Illinois but they only carry maybe 3 or 4 Pro Industrial products in store and everything else I have to special order, and the one in Wisconsin I can walk in and walk out with sher-kem, corothane, whatever.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Nabinko said:


> I live on the border of Wisconsin and Illinois. Illinois is strict with paint. The HD's in Wisconsin have the "Oil Alkyd Enamel" and the HD's in Illinois have the Water Based Alkyd. My SW in Illinois but they only carry maybe 3 or 4 Pro Industrial products in store and everything else I have to special order, and the one in Wisconsin I can walk in and walk out with sher-kem, corothane, whatever.


Yeah the regulations are different pretty much from state to state, although some states are in groups that have the same organization overseeing the whole shebang. I believe Illinois is in a group with Indiana, Michigan, and Iowa. Ohio is actually not in that group but maintains the same regulations through their own state EPA. It is the federal EPA that requires the actual regulations of each state, but it is up to the individual states to decide if they want to do their own enforcement or join in a group with other local states.

FYI It is a violation of federal law with a potential jail sentence and a fine of up to $50,000 to take a non-voc complying paint into a state that restricts it's use. So you can actually be arrested and put in jail for buying a container larger then a quart in Wisconsin and taking it across state lines into Illinois. In 30 years selling paint in California and Ohio I have never seen this happen. There actually is almost no provision for enforcement of these laws below the retail level, because to have enough inspectors to do it would require the EPA to get almost 3 times it's current annual budget from congress to hire enough people and that isn't going to happen. Instead they concentrate on the manufacturers and the people selling the product and go after them.

An interesting provision of these laws is that the owner, president, or any person who is the number one hotshot at any manufacturer or retailer who gets nailed for violating these voc laws is THE person that takes the hit. He or she CAN be fined personally and actually put in jail. That is the major deterrent to violating these regulations.


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## pacific paint (Nov 21, 2015)

PACman said:


> I paid a visit to my local Home depot this morning to see if they had this product. Not only do they not have it, but according to their department manager there is no such thing as a waterborne or water clean-up alkyd paint! And he had never heard of Ben Moore Advance or the waterbourne alkyd Proclassic from SW. It is impossible to have an oil/alkyd paint be waterbourne he said. Damn I feel stupid now!
> 
> But what about the Behr exterior oil based semitransparent stain that cleans up with water?
> 
> He didn't know it cleaned up with water. Just that it was oil based. I am cornfused!


 
Yep sounds like my store :no: We carry one also by Valspar It is under the label cabinet paint and furniture paint For the DIY customer.

I would like to make something clear I am not here to sell paint for Lowes.
I just miss talking to professionals in the trade.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

pacific paint said:


> Yep sounds like my store :no: We carry one also by Valspar It is under the label cabinet paint and furniture paint For the DIY customer.
> 
> I would like to make something clear I am not here to sell paint for Lowes.
> I just miss talking to professionals in the trade.


Hopefully, we can carry you through this tough time. :thumbsup:


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

pacific paint said:


> Yep sounds like my store :no: We carry one also by Valspar It is under the label cabinet paint and furniture paint For the DIY customer.
> 
> I would like to make something clear I am not here to sell paint for Lowes.
> I just miss talking to professionals in the trade.


I feel for ya. I worked for Lowe's for a while between working for SW and PPG. I felt like crap every time a customer bought Enterprise paint for their homes. It was terrible paint. I don't think I could stomach working there now what with having to pimp out the SW/HGTV/Lowe's paint. But that's what you get paid to do right? That's why I try not to pick on you too much. You gotta make a dime just like everyone else.

I may pick on the products though!


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