# I show you mine if you show me yours? nc ways that is



## darrpreb00 (Aug 31, 2008)

I just spent 3 weeks with a helper doing a new construction job and was wondering how the pro nc guys do it. Im sure there is some guys that can do the quality we do in a week less or more. It was a total of 4800 sq ft floor space with mdf 4 in trim with raised 1×1 out lining frames ( cased windows, doors and frames, no crown) we start by spackling holes in trim with makeshift cake bag, wipe with finger to leave prutruded a bit. We use crawfords lightweight. I dont like it. It seems no matter how many times you spackle its still indented. Then we sand the ****ty chinese wood with a random orbital on the big flats with 3m prograde 220 hook and loop. Guys come behind with 22o prograde sponges and tune it in. We just scuff baseboards with a sponge. We come through with flashlights and sidelight all of the woodwork to find flaws and consentrate mostly on eye level areas. Then we caulk everything except against the wall. I use reg blue tap and drop down plastic and mask the windows then surround with paper to prevent flaking. (I used to mask walls thinking id ruin the texture lol) Take off doors, strip all hardware and put in bucket. I set them up in basement or garage in what we call accordian style. We use a 1 foot peice or scrap wood to attach one to another. Ready to domino over at the slightest temp change or jab of a roller pole ( of stupid carpenter in my case) lol. We vaccuum woodwork with bristle attachment, floor with floor attachment and under baesboards without an attachment. someone comes behind with a duster and tack cloth. Then spray with thinned zinnsser allprime oil. I let cure a day, respackle eye level and missed areas and caulk the few missed and shrank spots. We repeat the sanding process only its easier this time because chinease orange peel is gone. I just scuff on the insides of closets and just knock dirt off of baseboards. Side lighting eye level, vac, dust corners, tack and spray (I use water based durapoxy, kelly moore this time) fyi, make sure heat is up and you know how to spray:whistling2: 18 inch away (should be alot of overspray) at lowest pressure without fingering. Sweat running down your mask, employees crying about heat stroke, with door or window open to let out humidity helps alot I have learned recently. Now i let cure,tack rag all tape edges, pretape ( leave bite for caulk) with with orange label blue tape or green frog. Now caulk to wall and make sure to wipe completely off of tape. This helps hold it on while you paint the walls if you caulk afrer you tape. Use paper with cheap tape (just make sure 2020 doesnt touch new woodwork) spray and backroll with primer. We used a 1/2 nap 14" roller ( works with 18" frame). I like it because it sets the paint better than 18 I feel. More psi.? 18 would probably work fine. I skip back rolling closets. Let cure. Fix tape, replace or caulk it down. Now spray walls the same way only keep it very wet and watch your backroller. Same roller. I use a low sheen miller paint. It half the sheen of sherwin satin or eggshell and most walls look flawless!!! I suggest it. Very claenable if homeowner asks. I also always use the cheapest primer and paint ( which is still good from milker) and spendy trim paint. I do second coat on walls peel all masking off or trim and wipe off blow by. I let cure, now we pretape to the ceiling with whatever tape will not fall off or peel the walls. I used reg blue. It fell off in a room with a accent base paint though so i retaped with 2020. I used to not pretape but i would have to recut the whole ceiling. I learned that on here! and use 99 in drop down with 2020 tape to run on the pretape line. Spray ceiling paint around the edges of the rooms to cover up wall color, let cure, and spray single heavy coat over whole ceiling. Backroll with 18" or you may end up doing 2 coats ,I found out. Skip rollin closets. Unmask your 1000+$ of masking and t-up. Hang doors. 
Im sure most of us do it pretty close to this with our own tricks. Im in a custom type new consruction feild. These homes are being built by the home owner and I mah be too slow for this work but, it is flawless when im done ( j charge more than most because of that) k need to speed it up with out compromising the quality too much. I hope someone learned something from this. Any pointers for me? Stay in resi, lol


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## oldpaintdoc (Apr 11, 2010)

Man I just won't read that. Way to long winded for me and very few breaks.
Sheesh!


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Paragraphs are your friends.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Long winded. I tied to read it all.


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## darrpreb00 (Aug 31, 2008)

Its long. Thats the norm reaction when I show mine off. Run away


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

*Translation:*

*Introduction:* I'm a self employed painter. Me and a helper completed a 4,800 sf newly constructed house interior, in three weeks. I think that's pretty fast, but I'm sure some of you can do it faster with better quality.

*Trim Painting Process *
1.) Nail holes: We use Crawfords Light weight spackle applied through a makeshift cake decorator bag. Then we wipe with our finger, leaving it slightly crowned.

2.) Sanding spackle: We use Random Orbital sanders with 220 grit, followed up by hand sanding with 220 grit sponge. We only use the sponge sanding on spackled baseboards. Everything is inspected with flashlights at an angle. 

3.) Caulking: All trim joints and gaps are caulked, except where the casings meet the wall surface.

4.) Window Masking for spraying trim: Window panes are masked with blue tape and plastic, followed with masking paper to prevent paint flaking when over spray dries.

5.)Doors: Doors are pulled along with the hardware, and staged in the garage vertically in an accordion fashion that's held in place with one inch strips of wood. (_I'm presuming they are attached at the top_)

6.) Dusting: All areas are vacuumed prior to spraying. Including under base boards, and followed with tack rags.

7.) Priming Trim: Apply thinned Zinnser oil base primer by sprayer, and let dry for twenty four hours. (_Cover Stain perhaps?_)

8.) Re-spackle and sand where needed. Particularly at eye level. Minimal sanding on closet trim at this point.

9.) Spraying Trim Finish: After inspecting prepped surfaces with a flashlight again, and completing any necessary prep, spray application of Kelly Moore Dura-Poxy begins.

10.) Spray advice: Keep spray tip at 18" inches away from surface, and at the lowest pressure that can be achieved without "fingering". Also, keep the temperature in the space up, but allow ventilation to reduce humidity.

*Wall Painting Process (After trim has thoroughly dried) *
1.) Prepping for caulking where trim meets walls: Mask trim with orange label Blue Tape, or Frog Tape so as to leave enough space to caulk gap between wall and trim.

2.) Caulking: Apply caulk to gap and wipe excess caulk from tape.

3.) Priming Walls: Cover trim with cheap tape and paper, then spray with Miller's budget primer, back rolling walls with a 1/2" nap and 14" frame. Closets do not get back rolled. (_Ceiling was not indicated to be primed at this point)_

4.) Finish Walls: Identical application to priming, with the finish being Miller's budget low sheen, (Miller has a better finish then Sherwin William's Satin or Eggshell)

5.) All masking is removed from trim.

*Ceiling Finish Process*
1.) Masking walls and trim: Using Blue Tape (_and plastic I presume_) mask off walls and trim complete from base to ceiling.

2.)Ceiling Finish: Spray a coat of ceiling finish over the areas where the wall paint had been over sprayed onto the ceiling. (_It is presumed the ceilings have not been primed at this point_). Let dry, then spray a heavy coat of finish paint over the complete ceiling followed by back rolling with 18" roller frame. (_I'm presuming a half inch nap_) Do not back roll closet ceilings.

3.) Remove all masking, and install doors.

*Wrap Up *


> *darrpreb00=* "Im sure most of us do it pretty close to this with our own tricks. Im in a custom type new consruction feild. These homes are being built by the home owner and I mah be too slow for this work but, it is flawless when im done ( j charge more than most because of that) k need to speed it up with out compromising the quality too much".
> 
> "I hope someone learned something from this. Any pointers for me? Stay in resi, lol"


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

I don't know where to begin

You THINK you used Cover Stain:blink:


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## darrpreb00 (Aug 31, 2008)

chrisn said:


> I don't know where to begin
> 
> You THINK you used Cover Stain:blink:


Im not sure what cover stain is. Maybe my very nice english teacher means to block stains. Or cover stain is a zinnser brand? I used all prime. walls and ceilings get primed at the same time with pva after trim is masked.


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## darrpreb00 (Aug 31, 2008)

chrisn said:


> I don't know where to begin
> 
> You THINK you used Cover Stain:blink:


To Whom it may concern,

A couple of seemingly valid points have been brought up during our post today in which, I would like to address. They are as follows:

1) I'm not sure what Cover Stain is.

Guess #1: Maybe my very nice english teacher means to block stains?

Guess #2: Or Cover stain is a Zinnser brand? 

Fact: I used Zinsser All Prime Alkyd based primer

2) Walls and ceilings get primed at the same time with pva primer after trim is masked.

Conclusion: Can I just delete this whole thing and restart with ca'S translation?

Yours Truly, 
A Painter

P.S. Thank you CA. I knew high school was bull****. I have you now.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

chrisn said:


> I don't know where to begin
> 
> You THINK you used Cover Stain:blink:


The _italics_ in (_parenthesis_) were my comments. I added them when I wasn't clear what the OP was trying to communicate. I thought maybe he used Cover Stain.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

CApainter said:


> *Translation:*
> 
> *Introduction:* I'm a self employed painter. Me and a helper completed a 4,800 sf newly constructed house interior, in three weeks. I think that's pretty fast, but I'm sure some of you can do it faster with better quality.
> 
> ...


Nice job retyping it up.


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

I'm considering PMing all my posts to CA first, so he can make them better.

(and I shoulda started with this one)


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Steve Richards said:


> I'm considering PMing all my posts to CA first, so he can make them better.
> 
> (and I shoulda started with this one)


He could turn that into a lucrative business :thumbup:. Retyping all of our crappy typed posts.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

cdpainting said:


> He could turn that into a lucrative business :thumbup:. Retyping all of our crappy typed posts.


Hell, the "active" mods already do that for free. :whistling2:


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

RH said:


> Hell, the mods already do that for free. :whistling2:


What happened to the bacon pay?


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## Paintdian (Apr 17, 2013)

Why do you tape and caulk where the trim meets the wall after the trim is sprayed out???


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Paintdian said:


> Why do you tape and caulk where the trim meets the wall after the trim is sprayed out???


I thought about this too, and until the OP responds, I'll take the opportunity to try and explain the OP's intention.

Spraying the primer over the area where the wall meets the trim, allows for the caulking to adhere better to the primed surface. Since the primer is applied after the spackling, it is the OP's intention to also finish coat it while it is masked.

At some point the trim will have to be masked off anyway to make room for the walls to be sprayed. Why not take the opportunity to mask for a straight caulk bead while you're at it. Once the tape is removed from the trim, there will be no evidence of residual caulk on the painted trim. And by using Frog Tape, you will have a nice clean painted line as well.

Addendum: After reviewing this procedure, I realize that the OP must be applying the spackle over bare wood. However, he did mention he was working with primed MDF, so that would explain not having to prime. That is unless, he primed the MDF stock before it was installed. Had he needed to prime all of the trim prior to applying the spackle, he could have incorporated the caulking _before_ applying the trim finish, essentially removing a step of preparation in the wall finish process.

Addendum to the addendum: After contemplating this a little further, and given the role of caulking to accommodate flexing, it is my opinion that the caulking will perform better if it is encapsulated in a more flexible coating, like a latex wall paint, rather then a harder drying acrylic resin found in water borne enamels. 

Note: So therefore, it would make sense to tape and caulk the "trim-to-wall-gap" _after_ the finish trim coat is applied and dried.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Paintdian said:


> Why do you tape and caulk where the trim meets the wall after the trim is sprayed out???


Clean edges.seals the tape from bleeding. I actually caulk twice. Before and at this step. I find that double caulking (crown epecially) leads to less joint cracking years down the road.


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## Paintdian (Apr 17, 2013)

I have never heard of that. Caulk the trim to the wall and then spray it. Do you have any pictures of your way complete?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Paintdian said:


> I have never heard of that. Caulk the trim to the wall and then spray it. Do you have any pictures of your way complete?


Why do you think he's called Paradigmzz?


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

I can't get by the cake bag thing:no:


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## darrpreb00 (Aug 31, 2008)

Paintdian said:


> Why do you tape and caulk where the trim meets the wall after the trim is sprayed out???


Lol, I do it to hold the tape down. That damn orange label and frog barely stick even after tack ragging all surfaces your taping too. Its falling off the whole time. And, when you spray the walls, wet paint/ primer gets on tape and when it drys, all of the masking shrinks a little and you fight it the whole time. I came up with this after retaping after every coat. Either do this way or do it twice if it confuses employees. Moral of the story glue the damn tape down. I like the hypothesis of latex instead of enamel over caulk, hehe. Good idea


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## darrpreb00 (Aug 31, 2008)

chrisn said:


> I can't get by the cake bag thing:no:


Dont knock it till you try it. I bet you never do it another way:yes:


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## 12th man (Mar 18, 2014)

Paradigmzz said:


> Clean edges.seals the tape from bleeding. I actually caulk twice. Before and at this step. I find that double caulking (crown epecially) leads to less joint cracking years down the road.


I use that technique sometimes but usually I seal the tape with the paint I used for the trim. Your way probably does hold the tape down better. 
I enjoy reading everyones opinions on paint talk. I have gotten more knowledge and ideas from here than many other sources. The company I work for is very set in their ways. Not really open to new ideas. I Cant wait for my business to start up next spring


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## darrpreb00 (Aug 31, 2008)

Paintdian said:


> I have never heard of that. Caulk the trim to the wall and then spray it. Do you have any pictures of your way complete?


This website doen't like my s4's pics. It says couldnt upload or error. Maybe I need to change pic size settings? (Anyone know why?) it looks normal. You tape on the flat of the trim anyways right? Not on the wall or halfway up the round of caulk line. My wall color goes onto trim 1/4 or less.


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

Sounds like a really detailed list of double checks. Depends on what type of NC your talking about. I'm assuming the floors are installed already? 

I never got that, why install the floors (other than tile) before you paint? So that it can get damaged by things and people? Including the trim. I would never let anyone install trim ahead of finishing, the masking off and hassle would be ridiculous I don't see how some of the NC guys back east or whatever handle that. 

This is how I/we do it (nutshell):
* Concrete slab, doors removed from hinges, no trim installed.
- Dust / blow walls off from sanding residue
- Mask jambs, windows, beams, etc.
- Caulk corners
- Spray primer, force dry with hot air (propane tanks & heaters)
- Spray paint, force dry as well

Remove masking and do final caulking of windows/jambs etc. 

Done.


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