# Last deck we did fall 2010



## DHlll (Dec 22, 2010)

just uploaded some photos from the fall. This deck was a disaster. The previously painter and had really sunk his teeth into these people wallets. The HO explained to mme the it has been coated by this guy for the past 4 summers and none of the applications were right. He had a laundry list of excuses from the sun, to the product, to the mahoghany being oily!!
LOL. I had to bring in a floor guy to cut the deck down to good wood. I used 3 coats of sikkens dek product which i mixed natural and mahoghany 2to 1. I did this while they were away on vacation and they were blown away when they seen the finish. Now i am the contractor for life they said!!


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

It sure looks pretty. And yes, with Sickens, you will be their contractor for life!


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Looks nice.

Good luck stripping 3 coats of Sikkens in a few years!


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## DHlll (Dec 22, 2010)

no stripping, she is on a maintenance plan. That is the look they wanted and i fully explained to them about the product and how the high solids will break down. But thats what they want, money is not an issue and i will wash it and put a thin maintenance coat on periodically. When a customer lets the finish break down too far is when the problems start. I have several homes in the new jersey shore area that i use this product with no issues. Depending on sun exposure some deck go 3 years without a coat.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Looks very nice. :thumbsup:


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

NEPS.US said:


> Looks nice.
> 
> Good luck stripping 3 coats of Sikkens in a few years!


If it were Cedar or PT I would agree totally. Its Mahogany though  Moisture wicking under the film is the death blow to Sikkens DEK. Should hold up really well on Mahogany if they keep up the maintenance. :thumbsup:


Have them get some felt pads or sliders for their patio furniture. Scratches will stand out like crazy and be hard to blend in on your maintenance coat. Looks sweet :thumbup:


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

Looks great!. I agree with NC about the scratches. I give people with hardwood decks those things you put under furniture to help it slide across carpet. 

With enough ventilation under the deck, you may be okay with the Sikkens. I am not a fan of film forming finishes on any deck, especially hardwoods.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

PressurePros said:


> With enough ventilation under the deck, you may be okay with the Sikkens. I am not a fan of film forming finishes on any deck, especially hardwoods.


Really? I think the hardwoods can hold up really well with the film forming finishes like DEK. They dont wick the water like Cedar, Redwood, or PT. As long as the prep is good, hardwoods should hold up better with those type of coatings. The stains and sealers are a different story though. They cant penetrate well, and generally sit on the top, wearing out really quick.


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

NCPaint1 said:


> Really? I think the hardwoods can hold up really well with the film forming finishes like DEK. They dont wick the water like Cedar, Redwood, or PT. As long as the prep is good, hardwoods should hold up better with those type of coatings. The stains and sealers are a different story though. They cant penetrate well, and generally sit on the top, wearing out really quick.


Its not so much the duration of time they hold up, its how they fail. Constant maintenance has twofold issues with a product like Sikkens DEK. One is that the film gets thicker and thicker. Eventually you have toning issues and have to strip it. This is where Alice Cooper's Welcome to My Nightmare gets cued. The second inherent problem arises with the homeowners and/or contractor. If you are not diligent with maintenance, it will form a few bubbles and then its over. The slope of decline is like a runaway train until it is a peeling flaking mess. Maintenance sounds good on paper unless failure happens to occur in December. Then it has all winter to become a big removal job in spring. 

This past year, we did approximately 80,000 s/f of various hardwood restorations from mahogany to ipe. PP is the go-to company for many of the exotic builders in this region so I do get to see a ton of it. I would never put DEK on a horizontal surface, it won't hold up.


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## premierpainter (Apr 17, 2007)

Just a thought, doesn't Sikkens say that you have to seal all 6 sides when using DEK? I would never use DEK on that deck...just my personal preference


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

premierpainter said:


> Just a thought, doesn't Sikkens say that you have to seal all 6 sides when using DEK? I would never use DEK on that deck...just my personal preference


Its best if you can, but not required.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

PressurePros said:


> Its not so much the duration of time they hold up, its how they fail. Constant maintenance has twofold issues with a product like Sikkens DEK. One is that the film gets thicker and thicker. Eventually you have toning issues and have to strip it. This is where Alice Cooper's Welcome to My Nightmare gets cued. The second inherent problem arises with the homeowners and/or contractor. If you are not diligent with maintenance, it will form a few bubbles and then its over. The slope of decline is like a runaway train until it is a peeling flaking mess. Maintenance sounds good on paper unless failure happens to occur in December. Then it has all winter to become a big removal job in spring.


Allegedly they're working on a DEK maintenance, similar to the Log & Siding Maintenance coating. For maintenance coats as of now with DEK I usually recommend using the lightest color. Even if you used 045 Mahogany as the initial application, you could use 078 Natural as the maintenance coat, with hardly a noticeable difference.


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

Looks great.
Lemme see this after next summer.


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## DHlll (Dec 22, 2010)

NCPaint1 said:


> If it were Cedar or PT I would agree totally. Its Mahogany though  Moisture wicking under the film is the death blow to Sikkens DEK. Should hold up really well on Mahogany if they keep up the maintenance. :thumbsup: Thanks!
> 
> 
> Have them get some felt pads or sliders for their patio furniture. Scratches will stand out like crazy and be hard to blend in on your maintenance coat. Looks sweet :thumbup:


 Come on bro...that was the first thing we did before furniture went back up. home owner went to depot and bought 4x the amount needed of felt and pad, extras went to my house:thumbup:


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## DHlll (Dec 22, 2010)

*lots of naysayers*

Like i stated earlier i will only use DEK finish if the client is fully understanding of the product and how it breaks down. Select clients that have no budget in mind prefer that finish usually sign up for a maintenance contract. And with this not being the first deck i have ever done, the product holds up for me. We always start with new wood, whether a full strip and sand or right from the lumber yard. So if applicable, Yes all six sides get done. As well as a setup for the carpenters and their cuts. The wood gets a good wipe with acetone and the first coat is reduced 25 percent. Second, is reduced about 10 percent, then third and fourth coats are full strength. I really have no problems with the finish. But like i said the decks are monitored and taken care of accordingly. Lets here what you guys put on mahogany decks?


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## DHlll (Dec 22, 2010)

premierpainter said:


> Just a thought, doesn't Sikkens say that you have to seal all 6 sides when using DEK? I would never use DEK on that deck...just my personal preference


what would you use when the customer wants a translucent finish?


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## DHlll (Dec 22, 2010)

*Toning?*



PressurePros said:


> Its not so much the duration of time they hold up, its how they fail. Constant maintenance has twofold issues with a product like Sikkens DEK. One is that the film gets thicker and thicker. Eventually you have toning issues and have to strip it. Toning issues? Do you see the variance in the wood when it was sanded? With four coats applied with the darker color down first followed by the lighter color the idea is the 3rd and 4 th are able the break down a little in between the maintenance coat which is applied thinly. I agree if it goes to far it has to be stripped by everyone is blindly rambling past the point that my customers and myself do not let it get there.I have multiple years of quality appearance on all the decks i do, really.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


.............


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Stunning DHlll


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

DHill, it sounds like you know what you are doing and are diligent with maintenance. Any product can be good or bad. It all depends on the person using it. Your plan sounds like a good one as long as those top two layers are sacrificial and timing is perfect on replacing them for maintenance. 

I hedge my bets on high solids penetrating oils with rapid cure resins. Those are the products I know so I feel most comfortable using them.


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## Seattlepainting (Jun 8, 2010)

Top Shelf Photography on this deck redo.


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