# Prepping hardie board in really rough shape



## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Just took a look at a job. Big cottage, right on the lake. Customers had it built 14yrs ago. Certain parts of the house the hardie board is peeling really, really badly. How on earth do you prep this stuff without destroying the profile? I suppose you could use chemical strippers but I'm really not interested in getting into that.


Actually, to be honest I'm really not interested in the job period. Too much uneven ground, too much stuff at heights I don't like any more, dormers everywhere and the customer is so old I'm not even sure she'd live before I got done.


Anyhoo, here's a pic. Crap, it came out sideways. Again. I hate when that happens.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Just took a look at a job. Big cottage, right on the lake. Customers had it built 14yrs ago. Certain parts of the house the hardie board is peeling really, really badly. How on earth do you prep this stuff without destroying the profile? I suppose you could use chemical strippers but I'm really not interested in getting into that.
> 
> 
> Actually, to be honest I'm really not interested in the job period. Too much uneven ground, too much stuff at heights I don't like any more, dormers everywhere and the customer is so old I'm not even sure she'd live before I got done.
> ...


We see a lot of that here. Pressure washer probably take most of that right off. I saw one guy strip paint with his pressure washer on wood siding. I was sceptical but he says he turns down the pressure on a high volume pump and it came out smooth like it had been sanded.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

I was thinking the same. Pressure wash. Which makes me sad because I think I just blew mine up a few weeks ago doing my own deck. I'm a little concerned about the stuff that isn't actually peeling though too. I don't know a ton about Hardie board, but I think there's a certain amount of stock colours you can choose from. She didn't want that so she says they agreed to do up a bunch in her custom colour. Maybe that means nothing, I have no clue. It shouldn't mean anything.


The whole place is falling apart. Trex decking that's buckling close to two inches up. Roof is in total failure. All sorts of problems inside with drywall joints cracking everywhere, electrical problems, etc.. I know the builder and he does really good work, but something went terribly wrong on all of this one. Whole thing sounds like a bad hole with bad luck attached to it. 14 year old cottage.


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

Put your track shoes on and run away as fast as you can...probably in a location that traps humidity.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Man, I have never seen HB looking like that. One of the things that is nice about it is how well it generally takes and holds paint. Have to wonder if it had been put up, left a year or more, and then just painted over with absolutely no prep, not even (or especially) a good cleaning.

Anyhoo, guess I would just echo what has already been stated; give it a good pressure wash to see how it comes out. Otherwise, I think letting some other poor schmoe deal with it is your best course of action. 

Oh, but if you do take it on, get a REALLY big deposit in case... well you know.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

I have seen Hardie on dormers deteriorated to the point where replacing is the only option. 
But I agree with Lighteningboy on this one. If that little inner voice is telling you to pass this one by, you need to listen. 
I know you haven’t quite reach the over-the-hill mark yet, Bill, but I have and I’m turning some of them down these days before I even get out of the truck. And smiling about it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

Wildbill7145 said:


> I was thinking the same. Pressure wash. Which makes me sad because I think I just blew mine up a few weeks ago doing my own deck. I'm a little concerned about the stuff that isn't actually peeling though too. I don't know a ton about Hardie board, but I think there's a certain amount of stock colours you can choose from. She didn't want that so she says they agreed to do up a bunch in her custom colour. Maybe that means nothing, I have no clue. It shouldn't mean anything.
> 
> 
> The whole place is falling apart. Trex decking that's buckling close to two inches up. Roof is in total failure. All sorts of problems inside with drywall joints cracking everywhere, electrical problems, etc.. I know the builder and he does really good work, but something went terribly wrong on all of this one. Whole thing sounds like a bad hole with bad luck attached to it. 14 year old cottage.



I would run Forest, run! As for removing the failing paint using a pressure washer, here's a little tidbit from the James Hardie site:


**Pressure Washer Warning: *
Extra care should be taken when cleaning your siding and trim using a pressure washer. To minimize the chance of damaging your siding and trim use a wide fan tip, keep a minimum of 6 feet from the wall, and keep the pressure below 1500 psi.


You would have to definitely violate the 6 foot distance, and probably have to use a narrower fan tip. I really don't see any way to remove the paint without removing some of the profile off the cement siding, so I would let another painter help further destroy this house. LOL.


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## northcountrypainter (Dec 7, 2012)

if you do end up taking it on, you could roll on a diluted solution of stripper to give your pressure washer a bit of help. Works for me.


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

I did a job with Hardie siding one time that was custom color, and all the boards stuck together while packed. When they were pulled apart, much of the paint on the high spots transferred to the neighboring board. We had to spot prime and do a full coat of the siding once installed. It was a red BM (MoorGard)paint.

I have Hardie siding on my home...I picked a stock color. Who wants to be bothered with painting! :biggrin: It's held up great!


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

I've never seen stock colored hardy board.... Do you just spray paint the siders roll of nails to match?

I had a boss who did that. Not hardie board though. We would take bunks of cedar shaker siding, and spray it all down, backsides too, then backbrushing the front. He gave the carpenters some matching rattle cans and told them he better not see any silver nails or he would kick their asses.


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

Woodco said:


> I've never seen stock colored hardy board.... Do you just spray paint the siders roll of nails to match?
> 
> I had a boss who did that. Not hardie board though. We would take bunks of cedar shaker siding, and spray it all down, backsides too, then backbrushing the front. He gave the carpenters some matching rattle cans and told them he better not see any silver nails or he would kick their asses.


Yes it is offered prefinished, and the factory will even do custom colors (extra, of course). It is usually blind nailed, the board above hiding the fasteners of the board below. Any exposed nails do need to be hit with paint after installation.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

Yeah, I suppose just facing off the trim would be easy enough, as it should be a different color anyway.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

slinger58 said:


> I have seen Hardie on dormers deteriorated to the point where replacing is the only option.
> But I agree with Lighteningboy on this one. If that little inner voice is telling you to pass this one by, you need to listen.
> I know you haven’t quite reach the over-the-hill mark yet, Bill, but I have and I’m turning some of them down these days before I even get out of the truck. And smiling about it.
> 
> ...



Yup, not quite over the hill yet, but reaching the crest soon. Already turned down a few big ones this year. Too much freaky ladder work. Told them to hire some kid who's still stupid enough not to be afraid of dying.


I know what you mean about the smiling about it part. For years I'd take on the jobs I knew I shouldn't and regret it from beginning to end. Not sleeping at night just thinking about how I'm gonna get through the next day, etc. Now I walk away feeling absolutely fantastic that I don't have to think about that job ever again. Funny thing is that others must have learned this as well, because I drive by those houses all the time and they still haven't been painted!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

you are all touching on a subject that is near and dear to my heart! It revolves around the two major paint companies and their long lasting yet feeble attempts to get long oil alkyd primers spec'd on bare hardiplank! For some reason it was never done. Probably to appease the "ease of installation" gods. Think for a second...why should you use an alkyd primer on hardiplank. The correct answer wins my lifelong admiration and respect. Sorry but that is all i have to give at the moment.

I'm reminded of a statement i heard years ago from a SW tech rep. "if they aren't going to use an alkyd primer, you may as well just sell them the cheapest thing we have!". And that is what we did.

If you get any high amount of moisture or humidity in that stuff over a period of time what do you think happens? (no bonus points) (and hopefully after the battle over this that SW AND PPG waged i won't get sued by the manufacturers for letting the "cat out of the bag"!)


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

House is literally 100' from the lake. Surrounded by trees on all sides. Many lower areas are covered in green algae much higher up than I usually see, so yup I'd say moisture is an ongoing issue on this thing.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

So much for Hardie Board being “no-maintenance”.

I saw a stack of new hardie board being installed recently, and the backs of the boards was raw cement. If that is standard practice, I think we can expect massive HB paint failures in the near future.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Yep, thank hardi plank is definitely designed for dryer climates. I'm constantly working on some houses here in NL where snow is sitting on it for 6 months a year. Some of it is so damaged that it is flaking off the house. My only option was to replace with clapboard. ..Although a lot of it we just hand scrape prime and repaint... If the profile gets damaged, ...oh well..


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

It gets used a lot on these 'cottages' down on the lake owned by folks from Toronto. Most of the time they get closed up late fall and nobody is there until the May 24 weekend. I've seen the snow piled up against them on the lake side at least 6' deep from drifting because nobody is around to deal with it. Then summer hits and this whole area becomes a humidity fest.


Most of these places seem to be places for these folks to dump money into them like they were trying to get rid of it. Thus, the profile getting damaged isn't exactly an option as they're pretty fussy. The folks who own this place are on their last legs and they know their place is a dud, but I think they want to spruce it up for their kids rather than leaving them a disaster when they go bye bye.


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

Holland said:


> So much for Hardie Board being “no-maintenance”.
> 
> I saw a stack of new hardie board being installed recently, and the backs of the boards was raw cement. If that is standard practice, I think we can expect massive HB paint failures in the near future.


Hardie board has been around over 30 years and has proven to be quite serviceable. It's never been billed as "no maintenance", but rather low maintenance. That fact it does not hold moisture is the main factor contributing to its durability. In most case it will outperform wood by a large degree. But any painted surface when exposed to constant contact with moisture, be it snow, or continued very high ambient humidity, will eventually fail. I live in an area that is far from dry, and Hardie siding performs well in the climate in which I live.

The factory primed siding comes primed on all six sides, so it would be a good idea to do the same to any raw Hardie Board being finished on site.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Holland said:


> So much for Hardie Board being “no-maintenance”.
> 
> I saw a stack of new hardie board being installed recently, and the backs of the boards was raw cement. If that is standard practice, I think we can expect massive HB paint failures in the near future.


clue number 1


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## APPNW (Jul 9, 2019)

The cement is an alkaline substance, it needs alkali resistant primer.
Iirc masonry primer is recommended.


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

APPNW said:


> The cement is an alkaline substance, it needs alkali resistant primer.
> Iirc masonry primer is recommended.


Correct, Loxon or similar primer. Never use an alkyd primer on Hardie Siding, just asking for saponification problems.


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

PACman said:


> Holland said:
> 
> 
> > So much for Hardie Board being “no-maintenance”.
> ...


 The new siding boards mentioned came pre-painted at the factory, but the backs were still raw. To me that was a shocking neglect on the part of the manufacturer. I was there doing other work, and was not contracted to do any painting on this siding (in fact it was too late to even suggest it, as it was actively being installed). 
If the “cement fiber” is anything like other cementitious products, it will likely transmit moisture through the boards and cause paint failure on the front side. Right?!


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

Holland said:


> The new siding boards mentioned came pre-painted at the factory, but the backs were still raw. To me that was a shocking neglect on the part of the manufacturer. I was there doing other work, and was not contracted to do any painting on this siding (in fact it was too late to even suggest it, as it was actively being installed).
> If the “cement fiber” is anything like other cementitious products, it will likely transmit moisture through the boards and cause paint failure on the front side. Right?!


If it wasn't primed on the reverse, I doubt it was manufactured by James Hardie Co. More than likely a cheaper brand.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Holland said:


> The new siding boards mentioned came pre-painted at the factory, but the backs were still raw. To me that was a shocking neglect on the part of the manufacturer. I was there doing other work, and was not contracted to do any painting on this siding (in fact it was too late to even suggest it, as it was actively being installed).
> If the “cement fiber” is anything like other cementitious products, it will likely transmit moisture through the boards and cause paint failure on the front side. Right?!


I don’t think the back of HB is ever typically primed or painted. The cut butt ends should be, as well as areas that have been nicked or dinged. 

Over the past 60 plus years, tons of this stuff have been installed with very few problems. In fact, I put it on my own place here in the rainy NW almost twenty years ago and it still looks like new- with zero issues. I think if what you are concerned about was a true issue, Hardie Board would have gone the way of LP siding long ago.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

mmmmm yes and no. It is a pretty specific spec. The issue is with the primer they use when they manufacture it. Basically a watered down millwork primer that has a tendency to turn to powder under the finish coat when it goes through a lot of condensation/evaporation cycles. The original spec was cementous alkyd primer, but that was years ago. 

If it has almost any exterior exposure of the factory primer, it needs to be prepped like any old chalky surface needs to be prepped. Remove as much of the chalkiness as possible and prime with a acrylic bonding primer. This of course never happens and that factory "prime" will degrade pretty rapidly if it sits expose for long. Another issue caused by the factory primer is that it never gets sealed, and it CAN be like a sponge for mildew and mold in certain conditions. I've seen people clean it and bleach it and then not be able to figure out why the mold comes back every couple of years. There is nothing to seal the pores and the roots of the mold and mildew get in there and never get killed. At least by using just bleach! Several houses on mt road are having issues with this right now and they are less than 7 years old. The finish on the south side of their houses has degraded to almost nothing and the north sides are moldy/mildewed. My suspicion is that the builders used a cheap off brand "hardiplank". (they were built by the Amish). If another coat of paint had beem put on when it was new none of them would be having problems right now.

But anyway, the original and preferred primer spec is/was a cementous alkyd. Whether that is in writing anymore i have no idea. No one ever wanted to use it so we just sold them latex solid stain. But I really believe that the factory primer quality (or lack of quality) is the root cause for the peeling you are having. I would bet that it could be powerwashed off pretty easily. Or a soft wire brushing would get most of it off. Then prime it with a waterborne bonding primer OR a Loxon type primer and topcoat with a solid stain so as to not cover the texture and more than necessary. The fact that it has a texture also leads to problems with spec'ing a primer. But i have never found a way around that. It's one of the reason the millwork primer is thinned down so much by the factories.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Holland said:


> The new siding boards mentioned came pre-painted at the factory, but the backs were still raw. To me that was a shocking neglect on the part of the manufacturer. I was there doing other work, and was not contracted to do any painting on this siding (in fact it was too late to even suggest it, as it was actively being installed).
> If the “cement fiber” is anything like other cementitious products, it will likely transmit moisture through the boards and cause paint failure on the front side. Right?!


yup! And pull alkalinity with it!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

RH said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> I don’t think the back of HB is ever typically primed or painted. The cut butt ends should be, as well as areas that have been nicked or dinged.
> 
> Over the past 60 plus years, tons of this stuff have been installed with very few problems. In fact, I put it on my own place here in the rainy NW almost twenty years ago and it still looks like new- with zero issues. I think if what you are concerned about was a true issue, Hardie Board would have gone the way of LP siding long ago.


From what i have seen there are a lot of Hardie brand knock offs being sold by the box stores and this is creating most of the issues. The real "Hardie" is what is selling the product but cheap substitutes are what people are getting. And god knows how good of a product is being used. I have seen non-Hardie brand stuff go to 5hit in 5 or 6 years if it doesn't get a decent coat of paint put on it. The builders only have to worry about it lasting a year so they don't worry about how well the cheap stuff is going to hold up. When it comes to this type of material in general, i think it's better to put one more coat of good paint on it than to gamble unless there is proof that it is "Hardie" branded. Then of course you start to cover the texture. It's a catch 22 type of situation and that is why i don't particularly like the stuff.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

PACman said:


> From what i have seen there are a lot of Hardie brand knock offs being sold by the box stores and this is creating most of the issues. The real "Hardie" is what is selling the product but cheap substitutes are what people are getting. And god knows how good of a product is being used. I have seen non-Hardie brand stuff go to 5hit in 5 or 6 years if it doesn't get a decent coat of paint put on it. The builders only have to worry about it lasting a year so they don't worry about how well the cheap stuff is going to hold up. When it comes to this type of material in general, i think it's better to put one more coat of good paint on it than to gamble unless there is proof that it is "Hardie" branded. Then of course you start to cover the texture. It's a catch 22 type of situation and that is why i don't particularly like the stuff.


Well, I can’t speak to the quality of knock off versions, only to the relative quality and track record of Hardie itself. Probably like any copy of something good, they are marketed to be cheaper alternatives to HB - with predictable results.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

You can drive through numerous housing developments in Columbus, OH built in the last 10-15 years and see were the fake hardieboard finish has degraded to nothing. At least on the houses that never got repainted a couple of years after they were built. On most of these houses the hardy was only used on the peak area down about 10-12" from the peak. They were solid stained a color to match whatever vinyl siding the rest of the houses were sided. After just a few years those peak areas started to look like they hadn't been painted in 30 years. Of course that could be because PPG sold them the absolute WORST solid stain i have ever seen to stain them. Prosiding Plus! It wasn't even called a siding OR a paint. It was called an "exterior finish". I have never seen that nomenclature on a gallon of stain or paint in my life other than on Prosiding Plus. That crap would fade to white in 5 or 6 years and be basically GONE in 10! It was a horrid product!


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Last year some buddies and I resided the house of a friend who is in advanced stages of Alzheimer’s. We were considering HB and I checked into about a half dozen suppliers in our area regarding their cement based siding. Never once encountered any brand other than HB in our area, including at big orange.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

One interesting thing this little old lady told me was that when the paint on the real Hardie board began to fail, the builder had a rep from Hardie attend and inspect the situation. From what she said the rep told them that there was nothing the company could do. She might have been confused about that, but I can't see the installation being a problem as the builder genuinely has a very good reputation. This house is an exception as it appears virtually everything is failing.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Wildbill7145 said:


> One interesting thing this little old lady told me was that when the paint on the real Hardie board began to fail, the builder had a rep from Hardie attend and inspect the situation. From what she said the rep told them that there was nothing the company could do. She might have been confused about that, but I can't see the installation being a problem as the builder genuinely has a very good reputation. This house is an exception as it appears virtually everything is failing.


Yeah, hate to say it, but although it could be the siding, it is more likely to have been the result of poor prep by whoever finally painted it. 

When we did our addition a few years back, the contractor put on the HB but I wanted to paint it myself. Unfortunately, it was too late in the year so it had to remain only primed until the following spring. When I finally did paint it, there was a fair amount of dirt accumulation which had to be thoroughly cleaned off. If I hadn’t done so, I can see where the paint might have performed the same way it did on the place you are looking at.


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