# Just Started



## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

We just started this project Friday. It's a Foot Locker. Hopefully, it will land us some more commercial work.


----------



## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

just remember to prime and don't use alkyd dryfall :whistling2: :laughing:

I hope it lands you a boat load of work man :thumbsup:


----------



## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

Thanks. My pockets aren't deep enough for a boat load of labor then waiting 30 to 90 days for payment 
I am gonna have to use profits from other residential jobs to cover the labor. Eventually, I'd like to have a full time commercial crew, full time residential crew, and full time apartment crew. 

I'm not blowing my own horn, but I overheard the GC telling another guy (after we started) that "It sure is f*ckin' nice to have painters that actually know what they are doing". Gotta admit, my chest got a lil puffy after that comment.:yes:


----------



## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

LOL that is cool man. It is nice to be appreciated. BTW what I was saying above was reference back to that PDCA article. Not from experience. 

Sounds like a plan though man about the diff crews :thumbsup:


----------



## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

Apparently - I missed that article. 'Cause I wasn't sure what you were talkin about. 

BTW, I totally underestimated this job. Off on materials by about 50% and off on labor by ~30%. I am basically doing this at cost. No wonder - I won the bid.

I'll chalk it up as a lesson learned and try to do better next time. It's been a great learning experience so far.


----------



## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

great attitude.


----------



## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

I just completed a job about that size w/o shooting the deck (thankfully), props on covering the lifts, I try my best to keep the "cleaning fee" out of my expenses.
Sounds like you are a good fit for the type of painter they seek, get ready to travel!


----------



## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

We'll shall see... I wonder if we'll still be a good fit when I quote the next job properly?


----------



## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

fresh coat said:


> We'll shall see... I wonder if we'll still be a good fit when I quote the next job properly?


I ask myself that question as I breath in to deliver my price on every contract.
The fine line between making "just enough" and making "a lot" is getting finer everyday...

I wish there were such a thing as "decent" in this industry.


----------



## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Fresh, sounds like the GC is going to be in your corner. Hopefully you will get some more work. (at a higher margin)


----------



## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

BB - Thanks. I talked to the GC this evening and asked him if we were taking care of him. He said we are doing a great job - but we ran out of paint today- he was shocked we got as much done as we did. Again, this falls on me - 10 5'rs of dryfall only covered half of what I estimated. Obviously, they've been dealing with some sub-par performers. I am hoping his lack of headaches will justify my higher price on future projects.


----------



## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

exactly. After we did the water clarifiers.. we spoke to the GC about how we took a bath on the project, they were cool about it and let us know what was allotted for the project and they then knew what to bid for the next coal tar application.


----------



## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

Alright - man, I am going show my ignorance here. What in the hell are you talkin about? Be specific because I am truly interested. "water clarifiers" "coal tar application"???:blink:


----------



## upnorthmn (Jun 14, 2009)

What dryfall product are you using? I learned the hard way on material/clean-up estimating on dryfall ceilings my first year running the business on a 60,000 sf Cub Foods


----------



## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Sweet deal! How much paint did that lid take?


----------



## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

upnorthmn said:


> What dryfall product are you using? I learned the hard way on material/clean-up estimating on dryfall ceilings my first year running the business on a 60,000 sf Cub Foods


What did you learn?


----------



## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

Man, we've went thru 50 gals of dryfall (2 guys spraying in about 4 hrs -with a Graco 5000, split lines) and need another 50 - 60 to complete the decking. I get it at SW (got a killer per gal / rate - less then $5 / gal).:thumbup:


----------



## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

ewingpainting.net said:


> What did you learn?


Yes - please share. I learned to double down, basically, on all areas to be painted. I learned GC's love to not have to worry about somethings (painting for example). In other words, demonstrate you are there to please, back it up, knock it out - ALL is good.:thumbsup:


----------



## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

fresh coat said:


> Alright - man, I am going show my ignorance here. What in the hell are you talkin about? Be specific because I am truly interested. "water clarifiers" "coal tar application"???:blink:



bout the nastiest thing there is to coat. Red lead in a tank would be way worse.. but this is right up there..



























water clarifiers are the "poop" tanks that process the waste at water treatment plants. The inner "scrap arm" must be coated with coal tar epoxy to withstand the acids in the water.. AND being submerged in the water. It goes on to a certain mil thickness.. can't remember what it is now, but that stuff is NASTY NASTY stuff.. burns the piss outta your skin, cut it with MEK or xylene and has to be pumped through a bulldog spraypump.. which is actually ran off a pull behind compressor. Has a pot life of 20ish minutes in 70deg heat.. *we were in 100+* and full spray suits with full face masks. The blue was epalon epoxy from Sherwin Williams.


----------



## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

SWEET! Will y'all knock that out in a week?


----------



## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

done it already, there was 2. That is what I was saying, we were the "new guys" and we bid it wrong, bout 7 grand under.. we got paid a meger wage, but that was it.


----------



## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

Dude - that is an awesome project!:thumbup: Rock on:thumbsup:


----------



## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

yep starting out you learn and usually burn at the same time. I like that project you are on... good stuff. Just be real to the GC and as long as you help them to their goal of getting it done, you will be in a good spot in their eyes. I would even ask when the next project you were going to do for them starts.. and say, we can actually plan on making some money the next time! Being real.. doesn't get any better than that.


----------



## upnorthmn (Jun 14, 2009)

ewingpainting.net said:


> What did you learn?


 
I learned that all the sprinkler piping, duct work,conduit etc. eat up ALOT of paint. I learned that $5.00/gal dryfall takes twice as much paint and labor to get coverage vs. a high quality dryfall. 
We worked the night shift and had to get our area of work cleaned for the VCT installers by 7:00 AM. It takes a long time to scrape up 10,000 sf of dryfall dust after just putting in 12 hrs behind the gun going non-stop.


----------



## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

upnorthmn said:


> I learned that all the sprinkler piping, duct work,conduit etc. eat up ALOT of paint. I learned that $5.00/gal dryfall takes twice as much paint and labor to get coverage vs. a high quality dryfall.
> We worked the night shift and had to get our area of work cleaned for the VCT installers by 7:00 AM. It takes a long time to scrape up 10,000 sf of dryfall dust after just putting in 12 hrs behind the gun going non-stop.


Upnorth: Thanks for the reply. Are you exagerating about the hi quality dryfall getting twice as better coverage and half the labor? What's the diff in cost for a higher quality dryfall? Actually, I thought dryfall was dryfall. Did not realize there was different quality levels. Thanks for the tip.


----------



## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Fresh: I'm glad for you man.


----------



## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

Thanks - JP. It has been a wild ass year for us. From what I've read of your posts, you know this contractor stuff for all trades inside and out:notworthy: 
I respect that and understand that comes from years and years of experience. We are having a blast as we live / learn / grow. Appreciate all of your insight. Thanks.


----------



## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

So how did the Footlocker turn out?


----------



## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

It's been a hell of a learning experience. Sparkies bustin' up my finished walls to do some repair work they didn't do correctly the first time, having a crew standing around because the drywallers aren't on schedule, GC bitchin' and moanin' because wallpaper has bubbles in it (once they turn on the freakin' heat - the sh1t will shrink tight, door frames not installed on schedule - I could go on and on. I'll have one guy there tomorrow to finish up. 

Actually, I've probably got a legit 20 to 30 hrs of backcharges. I am strugglin' whether I should bust 'em with these charges. I think I'll eat this as a means to get in the "door". Your thoughts?


----------



## upnorthmn (Jun 14, 2009)

fresh coat said:


> It's been a hell of a learning experience. Sparkies bustin' up my finished walls to do some repair work they didn't do correctly the first time, having a crew standing around because the drywallers aren't on schedule, GC bitchin' and moanin' because wallpaper has bubbles in it (once they turn on the freakin' heat - the sh1t will shrink tight, door frames not installed on schedule - I could go on and on. I'll have one guy there tomorrow to finish up.
> 
> Actually, I've probably got a legit 20 to 30 hrs of backcharges. I am strugglin' whether I should bust 'em with these charges. I think I'll eat this as a means to get in the "door". Your thoughts?


Is the General a local contractor? If they are and you like the way they operate take care of them and it will get you closer to the front of their Rolodex in the "Painters" category. If they aren't locals and if they have more Foot Lockers lined up and you do them right you could probably get the rest of them. If they are a PITA try and hit them with everything you rightfully have backcharges for and hope for the best.
Loyalty isn't a word used in a commercial GC's vocabulary when they have to bid competetively for a job so dont take a beating thinking you will impress them, worst case they wont respect your professionalism for not sticking up for whats rightfully coming to you. 

Good Luck.


----------



## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

Thanks and I appreciate the feedback. He seems to be cool and really likes the daily follow up we initiate. He is not local and is not exclusive for the Ft Lckr. By no means is he a jerk. He is definitely wired though (but I think that is a good characteristic for a GC).


----------



## KLaw (May 8, 2009)

*Update*

Finish pics of the Foot Locker. We've got a ton more that I plan to make a "start to finish" video but we are currently having some technical difficulties

View attachment 3760


View attachment 3761


View attachment 3762


View attachment 3763


----------



## 4ThGeneration (Apr 17, 2007)

I think the best way to develop a relationship is not with the builder, but with the Superintendent/Project Manager. Most times the Gc is so busy or has such a large company that you would be wasting gas going after them. 

In the past when we used to paint new construction, we got in real good with the ranking superintendent and because he liked us so much we got all the largest profit margin jobs. The other paint contractors were upset and asked why. My Grandpa said because we are better than you and we make our GC money by having no go backs and keeping the customer happy, thats why.

The other contractors faces:

My Grandpas face: :thumbup:

Our faces: :yes:


----------

