# Do You Remove Switchplates When Painting ?



## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

i dont .............. then sometimes i like to remove the plate after i paint around it just to admire the perfectly square outline


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## Repaintpro (Oct 2, 2012)

Where is the popcorn!


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

I just caulk them to the wall... silicone. :whistling2:


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Oh dear. We really need Steve Richards in a sitchimashion like this.

Just to bring things back to reality.


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## Mathiasian (Nov 26, 2014)

*Mostly*

Pretty much always. Except lan line covers, and co-ax.


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## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

Speaking as a paperhanger, I never remove plates. It's just four cuts... zip,zip, zap, zoodle and your done. Removing plates is for suckers.




:cowboy:


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## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

We ARE talking about these kinds of plates, right?





:cowboy:


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

In the land of texture I find it quicker to remove them and roll up to them. Might be quicker to just cut around them on smooth wall, but I wouldn't know.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Ole34 said:


> i dont .............. then sometimes i like to remove the plate after i paint around it just to admire the perfectly square outline


Jeez, Ole, where are you working that the cover plates are square?? Are they all doubles?


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Great, another exciting thread...


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## luny2nz (Nov 14, 2008)

I suggest to my costumers that we paint them an accent color so they really pop. On really custom jobs we really go off and paint the actual plug a third color


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

Hines Painting said:


> In the land of texture I find it quicker to remove them and roll up to them. Might be quicker to just cut around them on smooth wall, but I wouldn't know.


On smooth wall, a switchplate is equivalent to a doorknob, hope that helps.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

I just paint them and then go to McDonalds


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

what's next ... remove the carpet so you can cut in the base? :whistling2:


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

I'm considering a new thread. Rolling.....Right to left?....Or left to right? :thumbup:


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## Repaintpro (Oct 2, 2012)

Always left to right


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

Woodland said:


> I'm considering a new thread. Rolling.....Right to left?....Or left to right?


No options for those who go top to bottom or bottom to top?


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

PRC said:


> No options for those who go top to bottom or bottom to top?


I'm a power top.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

I use a hammer. JK, we take them off, clean them or replace them, I keep a stock pile of 3 different color cover plates in my truck. Switches (1,2,3,4,5 banks) outlets, dimmer plates and even some of the emergency gas shut off plates.


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## capn26 (Aug 17, 2014)

I take them off. Roll half the receptacle, then put them back.


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

I slop paint on them, and then clean them off with a razor blade.

I know..it just never gets old, does it!


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

I try to camouflage them so the HO won't find the switch, turn on the light, and see the job I hacked :thumbsup:


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

daArch said:


> I try to camouflage them so the HO won't find the switch, turn on the light, and see the job I hacked :thumbsup:
> 
> View attachment 26850


Arch, did you actually align the slot in the upper screw so it follows the stem??

I am impressed. I even take back *some* of the things I said.

EDIT: hold on, is there actually some "leaf" on that upper screw as well???

:notworthy:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Gough said:


> Arch, did you actually align the slot in the upper screw so it follows the stem??
> 
> I am impressed. I even take back *some* of the things I said.
> 
> ...


Yes, screw angled, brown paint IN the slot and leaf painted on it.

I had finished the job early, had time to kill, and one of my most favorite customers. I think I've papered about a dozen rooms there.

I usually just place the best color screw I have, but once in awhile I'll quickly mix up some paint so there's not a gawd awful white dot. (It's an OCD thing)

I also UN-painted the service call plate and shined it.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

If you can't do a good job of cutting around them you're a hack.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

daArch said:


> Yes, screw angled, brown paint IN the slot and leaf painted on it.
> 
> I had finished the job early, had time to kill, and one of my most favorite customers. I think I've papered about a dozen rooms there.
> 
> ...


:thumbup::thumbup:

At first, I thought that there was some paint in the slot as well, but then I wondered, "is there anybody sufficiently AR about that detail to take the time to fix it?"

I shoulda knowed.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

I'm allowed to have fun :thumbsup:

Monday I REALLY beat my estimate, so at the kill point (a small section of wall - usually a door header- where the first and last strips meet, but the pattern don't) I cut out part of a flower and applicayed over onto the first strip around a butterfly to better hide the pattern mismatch.

As I told the HO, now it's time for me to play.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

daArch said:


> I try to camouflage them so the HO won't find the switch, turn on the light, and see the job I hacked :thumbsup:


 That's awesome craftsmanship.


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

capn26 said:


> I take them off. Roll half the receptacle, then put them back.


So THIS is you!! (jk)


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Repaint Florida said:


> what's next ... remove the carpet so you can cut in the base? :whistling2:


Just the baseboard, cove base, crown molding, chair rail, and door and window casings.


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## Northwest_painter (Jan 27, 2012)

Heck NO! I don't even use drop clothes If they want their windows masked off I use their drapes!:thumbup::jester: A real Painter just takes that sprayer out and lets rip!! Any one who does not paint like that is a hack:whistling2::jester:


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## Northwest_painter (Jan 27, 2012)

driftweed said:


> So THIS is you!! (jk)
> 
> View attachment 26854


When I first started I had to clean off over a 100 outlets that looked like that. I wounder what apprentice painted them like that?:whistling2:


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## tjdrake (Mar 31, 2011)

Not only do we remove them, we also clean them. I would say this applies to about 90% of our projects.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

tjdrake said:


> Not only do we remove them, we also clean them. I would say this applies to about 90% of our projects.


It's a little detail that often gets noticed, especially by that famous 10%. It's one they appreciate, just like re-lamping hard-to-reach fixtures, washing windows, and ... dealing with hardware:whistling2:


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## AussieDan (Nov 27, 2014)

Don't know if its different in America but in Australia we have cover plates on top of the switches. Un-clip the plate cut in and replace when the wall is dry.


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Next week......Switch plates.....after re-installing do you leave the screw slots vertical or horizontal?...... And I will expect to see no less than 12 pages


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## AussieDan (Nov 27, 2014)

Don't you have these?


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

No, ours have screws


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## AussieDan (Nov 27, 2014)

ours are screwed in. with a removable outer plate that just clips on. Would post a photo, but cant seem to get it to work


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

Woodland said:


> Next week......Switch plates.....after re-installing do you leave the screw slots vertical or horizontal?...... And I will expect to see no less than 12 pages


I think that thread has been done already!


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

ridesarize said:


> I think that thread has been done already!


more than once since I have been here


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

tjdrake said:


> Not only do we remove them, we also clean them. I would say this applies to about 90% of our projects.


and if they are not cleanable, just get new ones, they are cheap:yes:


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

chrisn said:


> and if they are not cleanable, just get new ones, they are cheap:yes:


A learned way back when. I paint the plates and screws white. The outlets and switches black. Minute dry spray paint. Real nice detail to put on especially rentals, looks like you got all new outlets and switches. Real uniformity from what is usually a hodgpodged mess.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

ridesarize said:


> I think that thread has been done already!


Yup vertical slots was declared the winner.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Oden said:


> A learned way back when. I paint the plates and screws white. The outlets and switches black. Minute dry spray paint. Real nice detail to put on especially rentals, looks like you got all new outlets and switches. Real uniformity from what is usually a hodgpodged mess.


A friend of the 70's was an electrician, he informed it was a * BIG* no-no to paint the outlets.

And I would think that spray paint would inject paint INTO the slots befouling the connectors, and we won't even get into the possible hazards of wet paint and electricity.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Yup vertical slots was declared the winner.


In another galaxy, on a more general forum far away, someone raised the question about the proper orientation of the ground plug in a standard (110 v ) electric receptacle. For our PT brothers from outside North America, our version looks like this:









EDIT: it was a spirited discussion.


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

daArch said:


> A friend of the 70's was an electrician, he informed it was a BIG no-no to paint the outlets.
> 
> And I would think that spray paint would inject paint INTO the slots befouling the connectors, and we won't even get into the possible hazards of wet paint and electricity.


It is against building code to paint them. If a building inspector walks in and sees a painted outlet he eill make the homeowner replace them. Also, any respectable HUD inspector will fail you for it as well.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

Gough said:


> In another galaxy, on a more general forum far away, someone raised the question about the proper orientation of the ground plug in a standard (110 v ) electric receptacle. For our PT brothers from outside North America, our version looks like this:
> 
> View attachment 26880
> 
> ...



my cousin insisted that he do the outlets like that in my house .......pain in the ass sometimes as some plugs dont work well with that set-up. technically, i think its the correct way though


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

driftweed said:


> It is against building code to paint them. If a building inspector walks in and sees a painted outlet he eill make the homeowner replace them. Also, any respectable HUD inspector will fail you for it as well.


I'd be very interested to see the code citation on that. I'm not saying that it doesn't exist, but it sounds a lot like the famous B.O.'s "Bluff Rule."


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Yup vertical slots was declared the winner.


LMAO I was being sarcastic, but I kind of think I remember seeing that here before now that I think about it :blink: I guess we can cover how to open paint cans now? :jester:


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## A&S Painting (Oct 19, 2014)

I always take them off and clean them from the last hack that painted and did not take the extra few min to take them off. Then when I put them back on, all the screws point in the same direction!!


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Gough said:


> In another galaxy, on a more general forum far away, someone raised the question about the proper orientation of the ground plug in a standard (110 v ) electric receptacle. For our PT brothers from outside North America, our version looks like this:
> 
> View attachment 26880
> 
> ...


Apparently there is wide spread disagreement amongst Sparkies as to the "correct" orientation. It was my belief that the "code" was changed a few years back so that they were upside down (ground hole on top), but I have seen many recent install with them back to being upside up. Even the Sparky house I papered last spring (he's remodeling) they were the correct way - ground hole on the bottom. He said there was no such code demanding the ground be up. He did acknowledge in Canada the practice was to orientate them with ground hole up.

And since I believe everything I read on the web, especially when it supports my opinion, let me quote familyhandyman.com



> You usually see outlets installed with the ground hole down (Photo 2). But it's no better than installing them the opposite direction (Photo 1). Electricians endlessly debate this and vigorously exalt the virtues of installing it one way or the other, but we'll tell it to you straight—it just doesn't matter. Both ways are correct. The electric code doesn't specify which direction the ground plug hole needs to face. One way isn't safer than the other—as long as the outlet is wired correctly.
> 
> It all comes down to aesthetics, so install them whatever way looks best to you. Incidentally, the ground plug is typically down in the United States, the opposite of how it's generally installed in Canada.
> 
> Read more: http://www.familyhandyman.com/elect...utlets-which-way-is-up/view-all#ixzz3KJAXWljT


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

daArch said:


> Apparently there is wide spread disagreement amongst Sparkies as to the "correct" orientation. It was my belief that the "code" was changed a few years back so that they were upside down (ground hole on top), but I have seen many recent install with them back to being upside up. Even the Sparky house I papered last spring (he's remodeling) they were the correct way - ground hole on the bottom. He said there was no such code demanding the ground be up. He did acknowledge in Canada the practice was to orientate them with ground hole up.
> 
> And since I believe everything I read on the web, especially when it supports my opinion, let me quote familyhandyman.com


When last I checked, the NEC was silent about it. The interesting part is that the preference is different in residential versus industrial/institutional. The latter tend to have the ground up, so that a partially unplugged device doesn't present a spark/arc hazard should a conductive material drop on it.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Gough said:


> When last I checked, the NEC was silent about it. The interesting part is that the preference is different in residential versus industrial/institutional. The latter tend to have the ground up, so that a partially unplugged device doesn't present a spark/arc hazard should a conductive material drop on it.


Yah I saw that, I do wonder what the odds are for someone to accidentally drop a cookie sheet so that it falls perfectly parallel to a wall and wedges itself in between the plug casing and the outlet and contacts both prongs ?

Probably as often as I win the Mega Millions


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

daArch said:


> Yah I saw that, I do wonder what the odds are for someone to accidentally drop a cookie sheet so that it falls perfectly parallel to a wall and wedges itself in between the plug casing and the outlet and contacts both prongs ?
> 
> Probably as often as I win the Mega Millions


I think that's why its a bigger concern in industrial/institutional settings with tools and other equipment around.


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## whodog94 (Aug 10, 2012)

Apartments and some commercial, no. Residential, always.


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## BuckeyePainter (Feb 14, 2014)

Heck no, paint over them! Time is money!  JK, Lol. I always take them off. :thumbup:


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## phillyholiday (Jun 5, 2014)

Very common to see the "ground hole up" outlet be connected to the switch. Take off the plates with an 18v impact and put em in a deuce. Coax/Cat 5 etc. loosen and set them sideways in the opening. Door knobs... depends on the job.


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## Painter-Aaron (Jan 17, 2013)

The. Ground hole here is down in 99% of the places I go. It looks weird and wrong when I see it on top the odd time.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Gough said:


> In another galaxy, on a more general forum far away, someone raised the question about the proper orientation of the ground plug in a standard (110 v ) electric receptacle. For our PT brothers from outside North America, our version looks like this:
> 
> View attachment 26880
> 
> ...


the problem with that pic( that nobody brought up) is that the screw is crooked


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Gough said:


> I think that's why its a bigger concern in industrial/institutional settings with tools and other equipment around.



Well that proves I buy my lotto tickets from the wrong vendors, I should buy them at the local prison or State Developmental Institution.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

phillyholiday said:


> Very common to see the "ground hole up" outlet be connected to the switch. Take off the plates with an 18v impact and put em in a deuce. Coax/Cat 5 etc. loosen and set them sideways in the opening. Door knobs... depends on the job.


That sounds like a local custom to me. What do they do with "split-switched" outlets??


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## B-n-L Enterprises (Sep 10, 2014)

Painter-Aaron said:


> The. Ground hole here is down in 99% of the places I go. It looks weird and wrong when I see it on top the odd time.


Yes, old electricians code is the ground plug is supposed to go down. 
I have been seeing an influx as the norm of the ground plug going up. But I have not spoken with an electrician to find out if the code changed or not because I see this alot and knowing the correct way, it looks wrong and also weird to me too.


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## B-n-L Enterprises (Sep 10, 2014)

luny2nz said:


> I suggest to my costumers that we paint them an accent color so they really pop. On really custom jobs we really go off and paint the actual plug a third color


Painting the actual receptacle (if you are serious) is a code violation in most municipalities. 
Second, if you do this while the receptacle is hot, a drop of paint can get inside and cause you to get a shock and even start a fire.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

*It's all political!*

It's amazing just how dangerous the major utilities are in our homes. Serious shock hazard, potential maiming, and fire from electricity. Explosion and potential death from suffocation by natural gas. Drowning from water (pools, tubs, and slipping in the shower). Yet a pistol in the top shelf of the bedroom closet provokes politically motivated legislation and or bans. 

With that, I hope this thread gets kicked to the PZ so I won't have to see it when I'm reading PT unplugged.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

B-n-L Enterprises said:


> Yes, old electricians code is the ground plug is supposed to go down.
> I have been seeing an influx as the norm of the ground plug going up. But I have not spoken with an electrician to find out if the code changed or not because I see this alot and knowing the correct way, it looks wrong and also weird to me too.


That may be " old electricians' code", i.e. tradition, but from what I've been able to find, it's never been addressed by the NEC. The code still doesn't cover it, but putting the ground up seems to increasingly common, especially in commercial work.


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## B-n-L Enterprises (Sep 10, 2014)

In my past I was a general handyman before falling in love with the painting industry and doing that full time, I would find that the cover plates were hell to remove if they were not removed during the last re-paint. And even after you re-move them to do electrical work, not alot of the time you have to repaint just for the simple fact that the cover plate took the wall paint off with it. 

I am not lazy and I am not a hack, there for I remove them along with telephone, coax and data plate covers. 

Plus, if the customer ever changed those covers since my re-paint and the new cover is a different size or detail, now they don't have to call me back or hire for a re-paint because if you remove them and paint, you go all the way to the switch box or 1900 box. 

Only lazy people or hacks don't remove these. 

Say if a customer replaces his switch and receptacle a week after he hires you to re-paint. And the switch or receptacle cover he bought has a detail to it other than traditional rectangle. And there is different size rectangle ones also. The low line Leviton's are a 1/16 to 11/8 smaller than the regular Leviton's. 
Should he have to repay for a painter to come out or should you have to re-roll to his house for free to touch up? I don't think that is too smart for your company/business or reputation and that implies hack & lazy and word spreads. 
This happens alot in houses customers are selling, they have you re-paint, don't tell you they are say taking their expensive brass switch or receptacle or replace theirs with shiny new ones and don't know the size differences in the low to regular line Leviton's, they buy per price. Replace with either, now you should re-roll to his house for free, that does not make sense.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Who would have ever imagined that face plates were the backbone of the painting industry?


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## B-n-L Enterprises (Sep 10, 2014)

Gough said:


> That may be " old electricians' code", i.e. tradition, but from what I've been able to find, it's never been addressed by the NEC. The code still doesn't cover it, but putting the ground up seems to increasingly common, especially in commercial work.


I don't know if or not it has been addressed by the NEC or not. Since I always seen them down always, I assumed it was code and when I do electrical work, I always put them down, same with my Father. 

But I can agree putting them up has all of a sudden becoming increasingly common, and I have no clue why. This young wipper snappers bucking tradition?
But its annoying when you put the plug you want to plug in in your hand the most common and comfortable way ie: groung plug down and you have to flip it up because someone wants to hack tradition. 

Ive seen it become increasingly common in both commercial and residential. 

To me its like waking up and sky is green instead of blue.


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## B-n-L Enterprises (Sep 10, 2014)

Underdog said:


> Speaking as a paperhanger, I never remove plates. It's just four cuts... zip,zip, zap, zoodle and your done. Removing plates is for suckers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So now what happens if a week later after they pay you to re-paper, they change the covers with more expensive or more with more detail and the paper is not not on the wall where a traditional rectangle cover was? 
Now they have blank spots in the wall paper.

If you took the plate off, went right to the box, now they can change the plate with whatever style they want or ever want.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Let's end the debate on receptacle orientation . Scroll to instructions.


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## B-n-L Enterprises (Sep 10, 2014)

Woodland said:


> I'm considering a new thread. Rolling.....Right to left?....Or left to right? :thumbup:


Always left to right


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## B-n-L Enterprises (Sep 10, 2014)

driftweed said:


> So THIS is you!! (jk)
> 
> View attachment 26854


Can't stand when hacks do that


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## B-n-L Enterprises (Sep 10, 2014)

Northwest_painter said:


> When I first started I had to clean off over a 100 outlets that looked like that. I wounder what apprentice painted them like that?:whistling2:


I carry newly cleaned receptacles with me, white & Ivory. 
It is quicker to take em off, swap then with ones you previously cleaned, take them home and when your watching TV, sit there with your pocket knife chipping away at what the former hack did. 
Then replace them at your next job. 

I do this because I don't want to get blamed for doing it as some customers knowing or not that it was there before you, will still blame you.


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## B-n-L Enterprises (Sep 10, 2014)

Gough said:


> It's a little detail that often gets noticed, especially by that famous 10%. It's one they appreciate, just like re-lamping hard-to-reach fixtures, washing windows, and ... dealing with hardware:whistling2:


Thank you Gough, somebody appreciates detail still I see.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

B-n-L Enterprises said:


> I don't know if or not it has been addressed by the NEC or not. Since I always seen them down always, I assumed it was code and when I do electrical work, I always put them down, same with my Father.
> 
> But I can agree putting them up has all of a sudden becoming increasingly common, and I have no clue why. This young wipper snappers bucking tradition?
> But its annoying when you put the plug you want to plug in in your hand the most common and comfortable way ie: groung plug down and you have to flip it up because someone wants to hack tradition.
> ...


Here's a discussion dedicated to the subject:

http://www.mikeholt.com/technical.p...ptacles - Ground Up or Ground Down? (9-23-99)


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

CApainter said:


> Let's end the debate on receptacle orientation . Scroll to instructions.


I'm assuming you feel the instructions indicated either orientation is correct.

I did not see any wording that indicated which way was the correct way, I saw diagrams with different orientation, and the "TEST" and "RESET" buttons had those words written twice - so they could be read right side up with either orientation. 

Let the personal preference battle continue, but I warn you, Mudbone finds this debate shocking, but others find it electrifying, but I doubt any one can shed light on the one way to do it, unless you're all wired on caffine and not grounded in reality.


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## B-n-L Enterprises (Sep 10, 2014)

Woodland said:


> Next week......Switch plates.....after re-installing do you leave the screw slots vertical or horizontal?...... And I will expect to see no less than 12 pages


Neither, I leave mine calibrated at 2 O'Clock precisely. 

LOL, no, horizontal

Oh wait, its not next week, oh well, I answered early.


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## B-n-L Enterprises (Sep 10, 2014)

Oden said:


> A learned way back when. I paint the plates and screws white. The outlets and switches black. Minute dry spray paint. Real nice detail to put on especially rentals, looks like you got all new outlets and switches. Real uniformity from what is usually a hodgpodged mess.


And a failed inspection as attleast here that is a code violation, especially for section 8 rentals.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

CApainter said:


> Let's end the debate on receptacle orientation . Scroll to instructions.


Would that it were so. NEMA and NEC are two different critters.:yes:


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## B-n-L Enterprises (Sep 10, 2014)

daArch said:


> A friend of the 70's was an electrician, he informed it was a * BIG* no-no to paint the outlets.
> 
> And I would think that spray paint would inject paint INTO the slots befouling the connectors, and we won't even get into the possible hazards of wet paint and electricity.


Yes, you are absolutely correct. This can cause fires also. :thumbup:


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## B-n-L Enterprises (Sep 10, 2014)

Gough said:


> In another galaxy, on a more general forum far away, someone raised the question about the proper orientation of the ground plug in a standard (110 v ) electric receptacle. For our PT brothers from outside North America, our version looks like this:
> 
> View attachment 26880
> 
> ...


Depends on the decade. 
Seems like prior to the year 2000, the ground plug all went down word. 
Then when the world got weird & crazy, that is one thing that changed with our current weird world.


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## B-n-L Enterprises (Sep 10, 2014)

driftweed said:


> It is against building code to paint them. If a building inspector walks in and sees a painted outlet he eill make the homeowner replace them. Also, any respectable HUD inspector will fail you for it as well.


Thank you drift, thank you very much! Point I was trying to make also.


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## B-n-L Enterprises (Sep 10, 2014)

Gough said:


> I'd be very interested to see the code citation on that. I'm not saying that it doesn't exist, but it sounds a lot like the famous B.O.'s "Bluff Rule."


Its not a citation in the sense of a fee. 
If the place is a rental, the inspector will not pass the rental to be rented and force the owner to replace before he passes it. 

I have heard of "building permits" being needed for painting in some municipalities, but no citations are issued, its just the inspector will not pas the job and you will not be able to work in the town that requires a permit to paint. 

If the HO paints or a hack and tries to sell a home with painted receptacles, he will not be allowed to sell a home before it is fixed.


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## B-n-L Enterprises (Sep 10, 2014)

Painter-Aaron said:


> The. Ground hole here is down in 99% of the places I go. It looks weird and wrong when I see it on top the odd time.


Finally, somebody with some sense here


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## B-n-L Enterprises (Sep 10, 2014)

Gough said:


> Here's a discussion dedicated to the subject:
> 
> http://www.mikeholt.com/technical.p...ptacles - Ground Up or Ground Down? (9-23-99)


The problem in polls is not everyone is asked. 
Only a small percentage of people in a controlled group are and they take the results of the people they asked which could have been 10 people for all we know. 
But people take polls as they are gold and everybody in the world/country are asked their opinion. 
I nor alot of people I know who prefer them down were not asked, if they were, that would make the percentage of who voted them down to be higher. 

I see a valid argument why they should be up, but that was a McDonalds employee and we all know the caliber of employees at McDonalds. Not even to mention if McDonalds should be in business. 
But I will not go into that and open a new discussion on this thread like somebody already did, (this topic). 
Besides, this topic (receptacle orientation) has nothing to do with us or this thread. 
ElectricianTalk.com is a place we should go for that discussion.


----------



## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

B-n-L Enterprises said:


> Finally, somebody with some sense here


BnL,

I think you can rest assured that the majority of the members here, if not all, follow best painting practices. And certainly, it is very unlikely that if that one anomaly didn't follow, or at least wasn't conscientious of best painting practices, it would have zero impact on your business, employment, craftsmanship, lifestyle requirements, or that preverbal price of rice in China.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

B-n-L Enterprises said:


> Thank you drift, thank you very much! Point I was trying to make also.


Could be, but I'd still like to see a reference on that. My experience with B.O.s, albeit limited, indicates a certain level of capriciousness is not uncommon.


----------



## phillyholiday (Jun 5, 2014)

Gough said:


> That sounds like a local custom to me. What do they do with "split-switched" outlets??



I'm in San Diego...my current home and last three apartments all had switched outlets upside down. In the master bedroom the two outlets connected to the switch are the two that are upside down. On the job site I don't really notice stuff like that because I'm too busy trying to put door knobs back on. I'm not saying it is or should be a standard just an observation.


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## B-n-L Enterprises (Sep 10, 2014)

CApainter said:


> BnL,
> 
> I think you can rest assured that the majority of the members here, if not all, follow best painting practices. And certainly, it is very unlikely that if that one anomaly didn't follow, or at least wasn't conscientious of best painting practices, it would have zero impact on your business, employment, craftsmanship, lifestyle requirements, or that preverbal price of rice in China.


I would definitely hope so. And it does have some impact if painters previously did the things we discussed in this thread.
I would definitely be done with the job much quicker if I did not need to pick up the pieces from the last painter that painted the property and onto the next a little quicker. 
No, I don't have to do these things, but if I don't want somebody elses doings to come down on me, which they can. It creates a less stressful environment between the HO and I if these details are not noticed/pointed out before the job has started. 
And not painting things like receptacles and covers is not craftsmanship, it is painting. 

The things I suggested are things I have either came across over the years and I offer suggestions here just as everyone else does to make our and everybodys lives smoother. That is what we all are here for.


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## B-n-L Enterprises (Sep 10, 2014)

Gough said:


> Could be, but I'd still like to see a reference on that. My experience with B.O.s, albeit limited, indicates a certain level of capriciousness is not uncommon.


First I will ask what your abbreviation of BO means instead of body odor. (Which is why I hate abbreviations. 

Then I will address your question. 

But I believe if I remember correct without going back into the thread, I can later but will be departing to do three bids. But I believe that comment was in reply to (someone) where he said about painting receptacles and that being against code in some jurisdictions. 

And keep in mind that inspectors can make up their own rule book, especially on rentals and even section 8.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

phillyholiday said:


> I'm in San Diego...my current home and last three apartments all had switched outlets upside down. In the master bedroom the two outlets connected to the switch are the two that are upside down. On the job site I don't really notice stuff like that because I'm too busy trying to put door knobs back on. I'm not saying it is or should be a standard just an observation.


From poking around the intertubes, that seems to be a widespread convention
In CA. The repaint we just finished has nearly all "split, switched" duplex recepts, with the switched recept on the bottom. Took a while to get used to that pattern.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

B-n-L Enterprises said:


> First I will ask what your abbreviation of BO means instead of body odor. (Which is why I hate abbreviations.
> 
> Then I will address your question.
> 
> ...


Building Official.

That's what we call the "Bluff Rule". They're not supposed to, but they do. It's their version of Double Secret Probation.

They also have a tendency to become testy when they get called out on it. It often comes down to picking your battles.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Yah know, I'm starting to see the plusses and negatives of the current opinions, although I may switch from direct comment to an alternating method of plugging into this amped up subject, fused in conjecture and powered by rumors that has generated so much interest amongst the brightest here.Although, there just may be a filament of truth to all elements of the argument.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

daArch said:


> Yah know, I'm starting to see the plusses and negatives of the current opinions, although I may switch from direct comment to an alternating method of plugging into this amped up subject, fused in conjecture and powered by rumors that has generated so much interest amongst the brightest here.Although, there just may be a filament of truth to all elements of the argument.


I'm telling Mudbone on you. 

Actually, he probably won't care. In fact, he may get a charge out of it.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Gough said:


> I'm telling Mudbone on you.
> 
> Actually, he probably won't care. In fact, he may get a charge out of it.


You're right this kind of stuff gets him all charged up.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

This thread had the _potential_ to be positive, but it may have short circuited somewhere. Now its like getting kicked in the joules every time I see it.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

CApainter said:


> This thread had the potential to be positive, but it may have short circuited somewhere. Now its like getting kicked in the joules every time I see it.


I gotta admit I'm not that shocked!


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

CApainter said:


> This thread had the _potential_ to be positive, but it may have short circuited somewhere. Now its like getting kicked in the joules every time I see it.












Too subtle?


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

I honestly don't know the exact code reference, just experience. Maybe the inspector was bluffing, I dunno...But when he says "don't do that" I tend not to push my luck. 

I did replace ten outlets in a rental once because hud failed them. After that, they get taped.

Now you got me curios if they were B.S'ing me. All these years I just blindly trusted them.


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

Google to the rescue!!

From the National Electric Code (NEC):

110.12 Mechanical Execution of Work.

Electrical equipment shall be installed in a neat and workmanlike manner.

(A) Unused Openings. Unused cable or raceway openings in boxes, raceways, auxiliary gutters,
cabinets, cutout boxes, meter socket enclosures, equipment cases, or housings shall be effectively
closed to afford protection substantially equivalent to the wall of the equipment. Where metallic
plugs or plates are used with nonmetallic enclosures, they shall be recessed at least 6 mm (¼ in.)
from the outer surface of the enclosure.

(B) Subsurface Enclosures. Conductors shall be racked to provide ready and safe access in underground and subsurface enclosures into which persons enter for installation and
maintenance.

(C) Integrity of Electrical Equipment and Connections. Internal parts of electrical equipment,
including busbars, wiring terminals, insulators, and other surfaces, shall not be damaged or
contaminated by foreign materials such as paint, plaster, cleaners, abrasives, or corrosive
residues. There shall be no damaged parts that may adversely affect safe operation or mechanical
strength of the equipment such as parts that are broken; bent; cut; or deteriorated by corrosion,
chemical action, or overheating.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

driftweed said:


> Google to the rescue!!
> 
> From the National Electric Code (NEC):
> 
> ...


Yeah, we make it a point not to paint busbars...or any other *internal* parts.

Still, B+ for effort. An afternoon wading through the NEC is up there with getting your roots planed.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

One of my early gigs. Was painting the HUD houses. Turnovers. Scattered sights. Meaning they were single houses. And I gotta say, they turned over a nice unit and I still use their basic process on my rentals.

The outlets and switch covers come off and get painted white. ( they are all metal)
The outlets themselves and the switches themselves get spray painted black,
No conjecture debate nada. That is the process to this day and back 20 years. Every single one. Every single time.

On jobs now all the time. Certain outlets/ switches got to be red. For whatever reason. Not my department. They take a spray can and paint em red. Inside of these junction boxes-they got to be for whatever reason-red. They squirt paint in with a can. Others get sprayed black or white-the junction boxes-something to do with pos/neg I think. Psssss. They spray the wires, the nuts the devices the whatever's.

It's what is done every day


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Oden said:


> One of my early gigs. Was painting the HUD houses. Turnovers. Scattered sights. Meaning they were single houses. And I gotta say, they turned over a nice unit and I still use their basic process on my rentals.
> 
> The outlets and switch covers come off and get painted white. ( they are all metal)
> The outlets themselves and the switches themselves get spray painted black,
> ...


Well, I think after reading this thread, you may have reason to verify what is mandated by the National Electrical Code. And if in fact you are in violation you may choose to alter your established procedure.

You DO realize that if there is an injury or property damage and it can be traced back to an electrical short in an outlet or switch which was altered against code regulations - ESPECIALLY by a person w/o a Sparky license, the person/entity that did the altering will be held liable for the loss.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Oden said:


> One of my early gigs. Was painting the HUD houses. Turnovers. Scattered sights. Meaning they were single houses. And I gotta say, they turned over a nice unit and I still use their basic process on my rentals.
> 
> The outlets and switch covers come off and get painted white. ( they are all metal)
> The outlets themselves and the switches themselves get spray painted black,
> ...


I don't want to take this thread off topic )), but I'd be real curious as to their reasoning behind that approach.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

daArch said:


> Well, I think after reading this thread, you may have reason to verify what is mandated by the National Electrical Code. And if in fact you are in violation you may choose to alter your established procedure. You DO realize that if there is an injury or property damage and it can be traced back to an electrical short in an outlet or switch which was altered against code regulations - ESPECIALLY by a person w/o a Sparky license, the person/entity that did the altering will be held liable for the loss.


I got over 500 fires under my belt already
Lol
They don't have a clue I started em
My delayed ignition-.diabolical. Isn't it? Set that fuse.....know where near the place when it goes up.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Don't let the rank and file push your buttons Oden. They don't respect the badge. Particularly that rabble rouser they call DaArch. I'll meet you later at the PPOTM Club. I here the drinks are free for an hour, and some company named richmond is providing entertainment. It ought to be fun!


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

CApainter said:


> Don't let the rank and file push your buttons Oden. They don't respect the badge. Particularly that rabble rouser they call DaArch. I'll meet you later at the PPOTM Club. I here the drinks are free for an hour, and some company named richmond is providing entertainment. It ought to be fun!



HEY, I admit to being rank, but I ain't nuthinophile :jester:


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## B-n-L Enterprises (Sep 10, 2014)

Gough said:


> Building Official.
> 
> That's what we call the "Bluff Rule". They're not supposed to, but they do. It's their version of Double Secret Probation.
> 
> They also have a tendency to become testy when they get called out on it. It often comes down to picking your battles.


Correct my kind Sir.......
Thank you for you abbreviation of body odor, or BO 
Bluff rule is correct. Not saying I agree, but I do not want to be re-called onto a job for this bluff rule and waste that time. 
They do become testy when called on their bluff rule. I do tend not to paint receptacles because it is not proper, not caring what the BO says, it can cause fires and the sorts, but f them. Which is why I am a Libertarian, I spite ten because their building codes are un-Constitutional. 
But I understand the problems that might have me re-roll to a job because of their crap, but most people love thir codes otherwise they'd be a libertarian also. But I think most people be more happy with not understanding what a Libertarian is and make assumptions, than understand one.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

B-n-L Enterprises said:


> Correct my kind Sir.......
> Thank you for you abbreviation of body odor, or BO
> Bluff rule is correct. Not saying I agree, but I do not want to be re-called onto a job for this bluff rule and waste that time.
> They do become testy when called on their bluff rule. I do tend not to paint receptacles because it is not proper, not caring what the BO says, it can cause fires and the sorts, but f them. Which is why I am a Libertarian, I spite ten because their building codes are un-Constitutional.
> But I understand the problems that might have me re-roll to a job because of their crap, but most people love thir codes otherwise they'd be a libertarian also. But I think most people be more happy with not understanding what a Libertarian is and make assumptions, than understand one.


Let's keep this out of the Politics tab, shall we??


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## B-n-L Enterprises (Sep 10, 2014)

CApainter said:


> This thread had the _potential_ to be positive, but it may have short circuited somewhere. Now its like getting kicked in the joules every time I see it.


Oh, this post is not bad, Ill show you kicked in the jewels 
This post was educational, even though it went electrical.


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## B-n-L Enterprises (Sep 10, 2014)

driftweed said:


> Google to the rescue!!
> 
> From the National Electric Code (NEC):
> 
> ...


Thank you driftweed, to the rest, I told youuuuuu!!!!!


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## B-n-L Enterprises (Sep 10, 2014)

Gough said:


> Let's keep this out of the Politics tab, shall we??


I did, where did I go wrong?
I thought you did touch the politics tab when you mentioned building codes. That is politics even though most call that law and are wrong


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

B-n-L Enterprises said:


> I did, where did I go wrong?
> I thought you did touch the politics tab when you mentioned building codes. That is politics even though most call that law and are wrong


Building codes are to painters/other trades as Rules Of Engagement (ROE) are to grunts. The politics of both are far removed and irrelevant.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

B-n-L Enterprises said:


> Thank you driftweed, to the rest, I told youuuuuu!!!!!


Read that passage again, and look for the words "internal parts"....:whistling2:


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## TrueColors (Jul 30, 2010)

Which do you guys prefer? To set the switch plate screws horizontal or vertical? 

I usually do horizontal.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

TrueColors said:


> Which do you guys prefer? To set the switch plate screws horizontal or vertical?
> 
> I usually do horizontal.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Diagnal is the new horizontal.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

TJ Paint said:


> Diagnal is the new horizontal.


And the "o" is now silent???:jester:


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Gough said:


> And the "o" is now silent???:jester:


I was so excited about getting my one liner in while taking a break from cleaning my place, fixing the bathroom sink, doing laundry, feeding my son, and making a improvised trampoline out of my bed, that I overlooked my incorrect spelling by not proof reading my post.

But, my bad. I will administer a self imposed exhile while finishing chores and play time


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## fanggo (May 16, 2014)

ridesarize said:


> I just caulk them to the wall... silicone. :whistling2:



You can't just caulk them, you have to paint over as well. Make sure you hit the switch to get an even coat. :thumbsup:

I take them off. Except for behind a stove or fridge. I put the screws right back in half way. Place the covers by the persons kitchen sink in case they want to give them a wash. Or just wipe them and leave them in the same room. Give instructions to replace them after a day or two.

Had way too many cats or kids knock the screws way and then lost. I keep extras in my toolbox should any be missing in the first place or I loose one.


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## fanggo (May 16, 2014)

Underdog said:


> Speaking as a paperhanger, I never remove plates. It's just four cuts... zip,zip, zap, zoodle and your done. Removing plates is for suckers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


When hanging paper? The blade will etch most covers. And for the time it takes to take one off and replace guarantees that you don't see any wall along the edge. 

This year alone I have hung three papers that were $100 a single roll and up. No way would I not remove a cover plate.


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## fanggo (May 16, 2014)

daArch said:


> I try to camouflage them so the HO won't find the switch, turn on the light, and see the job I hacked :thumbsup:
> 
> View attachment 26850


Nice. I do that with grids as well.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

fanggo said:


> When hanging paper? The blade will etch most covers. And for the time it takes to take one off and replace guarantees that you don't see any wall along the edge.
> 
> This year alone I have hung three papers that were $100 a single roll and up. No way would I not remove a cover plate.


I am pretty sure underdog was being just a wee bit sarcastic, maybe


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

fanggo said:


> You can't just caulk them, you have to paint over as well. Make sure you hit the switch to get an even coat. :thumbsup:
> 
> I take them off. Except for behind a stove or fridge. I put the screws right back in half way. Place the covers by the persons kitchen sink in case they want to give them a wash. Or just wipe them and leave them in the same room. Give instructions to replace them after a day or two.
> 
> Had way too many cats or kids knock the screws way and then lost. I keep extras in my toolbox should any be missing in the first place or I loose one.


a must, normal and white ones too


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## McGregor (Nov 5, 2013)

If you can't paint around a doorknob or a plate, then you must not be much of a painter. If it is for the look or the sheen, Ben Moore's paints are self-leveling and so I can never see any difference.


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## Painter-Aaron (Jan 17, 2013)

McGregor said:


> If you can't paint around a doorknob or a plate, then you must not be much of a painter. If it is for the look or the sheen, Ben Moore's paints are self-leveling and so I can never see any difference.


So you don't remove switch plates?


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Shape of plate*



Ole34 said:


> i dont .............. then sometimes i like to remove the plate after i paint around it just to admire the perfectly square outline


What if the plate is rectangular?

futtyos


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

futtyos said:


> What if the plate is rectangular?
> 
> futtyos


All squares are rectangles....


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

but not all switch plates are squares

(are ANY?)


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

futtyos said:


> What if the plate is rectangular?
> 
> futtyos


then so be it ....... but i prefer square.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

daArch said:


> but not all switch plates are squares
> 
> (are ANY?)


 
doubles are square (i think)


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

daArch said:


> but not all switch plates are squares
> 
> (are ANY?)


Ah, Set Theory finally comes to PT.


Two-gangs are: 4 1/2 x 4 1/2


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Gough said:


> Ah, Set Theory finally comes to PT.
> 
> 
> Two-gangs are: 4 1/2 x 4 1/2


I KNEW we were too educated for this trade 

AND NOT believing you that they were PERFECTLY square (I've covered too many with paper to believe it) I measured four in this house. All were 4 1/2 x 4 5/8. (I do not have any oversized ones, so can't measure them). So I guess not all squares are square either  :whistling2:


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

daArch said:


> I KNEW we were too educated for this trade
> 
> AND NOT believing you that they were PERFECTLY square (I've covered too many with paper to believe it) I measured four in this house. All were 4 1/2 x 4 5/8. (I do not have any oversized ones, so can't measure them). *So I guess not all squares are square either*  :whistling2:


 
left leaning switchplates in Mass>?..... why am i not suprised 









:jester:


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

daArch said:


> I KNEW we were too educated for this trade
> 
> AND NOT believing you that they were PERFECTLY square (I've covered too many with paper to believe it) I measured four in this house. All were 4 1/2 x 4 5/8. (I do not have any oversized ones, so can't measure them). So I guess not all squares are square either  :whistling2:


I found this in your toolbox.

http://www.archtoolbox.com/materials-systems/electrical/electricalfaceplates.html

The ones in this house are 4 1/2 x 4 1/2....


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## Toolnut (Nov 23, 2012)

daArch said:


> I KNEW we were too educated for this trade
> 
> AND NOT believing you that they were PERFECTLY square (I've covered too many with paper to believe it) I measured four in this house. All were 4 1/2 x 4 5/8. (I do not have any oversized ones, so can't measure them). So I guess not all squares are square either  :whistling2:


But does this then make them rectangles ?


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Toolnut said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> But does this then make them rectangles ?


They were already, see posts nos. 128 and 132.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

this thread has gotten too deep for me


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

chrisn said:


> this thread has gotten too deep for me


Don't wear your good shoes when you're on PT.


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## paintpro6809 (Apr 11, 2014)

If I paid you to paint inside my house and I discovered you painted around the covers, not only would you never get a referral from me, I'd bad-mouth you to anyone who wanted to know.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

paintpro6809 said:


> If I paid you to paint inside my house and I discovered you painted around the covers, not only would you never get a referral from me, I'd bad-mouth you to anyone who wanted to know.



Well if your not gonna refer me how would anybody want to know how I was ?.....or are you talking about wearing a sandwich board on a corner or something ?


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Ole34 said:


> Well if your not gonna refer me how would anybody want to know how I was ?.....or are you talking about wearing a sandwich board on a corner or something ?


I'm guessing you wouldn't get any calls from his friends...


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Ole34 said:


> Well if your not gonna refer me how would anybody want to know how I was ?.....or are you talking about wearing a sandwich board on a corner or something ?


The 10-person Rule of Thumb...seems to be outdated in the Internet age.

http://www.assetbasedmarketing.com/...bout-the-poor-service-he-or-she-received.html


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

paintpro6809 said:


> If I paid you to paint inside my house and I discovered you painted around the covers, not only would you never get a referral from me, I'd bad-mouth you to anyone who wanted to know.


I have to say that painting around them is better than just running the roller over em, like where I was yesterday


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## starwad (Dec 16, 2014)

I mud right over them


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

starwad said:


> I mud right over them


Over what?


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

TJ Paint said:


> Over what?



you might have to be a little more specific I think he's a drywall guy


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## Northwest_painter (Jan 27, 2012)

Ole34 said:


> Well if your not gonna refer me how would anybody want to know how I was ?.....or are you talking about wearing a sandwich board on a corner or something ?


Well Lets see how one can bad mouth a contractor in this modern age of information, Facebook, Youtube, Angie's list, Twitter, a few bad comments their and if it goes viral, work could be slow or stopped.


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## Painting Practice (Jul 21, 2013)

luny2nz said:


> I suggest to my costumers that we paint them an accent color so they really pop. On really custom jobs we really go off and paint the actual plug a third color


"receptacle"


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

Dear god please tell me you are not a professional painter who thinks it's OK to not remove face plates


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

aaron61 said:


> Dear god please tell me you are not a professional painter who thinks it's OK to not remove face plates


who the hell are you "talkin too" ?:blink:


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## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

I kid you not, at my job today, some paperhanger hung the plates without removing them... That was a switch


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Underdog said:


> I kid you not, at my job today, some paperhanger hung the plates without removing them... That was a switch


unbelievable, really?


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## salmangeri (Sep 13, 2008)

We always take them off. But in the town of Middleburg VA the norm is to paint the 
switch plate covers and plug heads the same color as the wall....


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## sprayingmantis (Jan 1, 2015)

When topics like this are discussed it gives me assurance that I will always have plenty of work.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Underdog said:


> I kid you not, at my job today, some paperhanger hung the plates without removing them... That was a switch


he was not plugged into to the concept of quality

he didn't have all skills covered

his technique was unmatched

the HO did not stick with him


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## TKbrush (Dec 30, 2014)

When putting the switch plates back on, at end of the day...i just make them snug. Electricians or the home owner can line up the notches if they want to. I have had a few people ask me to line them up, ofcourse i will do that. But with some alittle too tight or too loose...common sense says, just snug is better.


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## Zman828 (Mar 11, 2013)

If I am working in a nice home I take them off and clean them, I do not line up the screws. If I am working in a rental I leave them on. People like to see them off when you paint even if you can paint around them


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

We got the tour of the multi-million dollar middle-school renovation the other day. In the bathroom, most of the walls were finished with high-pressure laminate panels. I looked closely, and all of the slots in cover-plate screws were nicely vertical. What also caught my eye were the 1/8" -1/4" gaps around the cover plates, where the HPL was cut incorrectly. I think the contractors thought that lining up the slots would make up for the p-poor fit.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

I carry a small screwdriver on my key chain, and where ever I go, I align the screws


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

daArch said:


> I carry a small screwdriver on my key chain, and where ever I go, I align the screws


That's also handy if you get a screw loose.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Gough said:


> That's also handy if you get a screw loose.


I'm more nuts than loose screws :thumbsup:


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

daArch said:


> I carry a small screwdriver on my key chain, and where ever I go, I align the screws



I did a double take on this one the other day. At first it looked wrong. I'm a vertical guy myself, but in this case I guess horizontal works better. 









But they still needed straightening.


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## Painter-Aaron (Jan 17, 2013)

Now who carries a tiny level with them to make sure each screw is perfectly aligned?


----------

