# Cashmere terrible hide



## AngieM (Apr 13, 2016)

Do I have unreasonable expectations to expect an off white color paint to cover a darker color? I understand it most likely needs two coats but this is so unacceptable to me. In this photo, the cut lines are double coated. 

I called my SW rep and had her come over to see this paint failure. I thought for sure I had a bad batch, or want shaken long enough or something not normal. She assured me, there's nothing wrong with the paint. I just have to keep putting coats on until it covers. 

This is the first time I've used cashmere. My customer requested it. This paint has doubled the labor I bid for. I opted to prime it first instead of fighting with this white wash paint that is so shiny I can do my hair and makeup in it. 

My question... Is there a fantastic hide, off white over dark color paint? Or is this the norm? Honestly, I rarely paint an ivory color over anything. I'm used to one coat coverage grey / beige.


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## ElTacoPaco (Dec 11, 2015)

Try Silken Touch from PPG


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## ElTacoPaco (Dec 11, 2015)

Cashmere never has been great coverage wise anyways


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

Cashmere is great. My only complaint is its sheen. Like the flat.


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## radio11 (Aug 14, 2015)

I use Cashmere more than anything else--never really noticed hide issues. It's not practical to have 2 different paints at a job to compare, but it would be nice. 


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## tnw322 (Jun 6, 2016)

I see your cut in looks good, how did you apply the rest? Spray, spray and back roll or just roll?


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

I think you are too optimistic to expect an off-white to hide a darker color in one coat. Heck, sometimes two coats isn't going to do it. Cashmere is good paint. If it is covering in two coats, I'd be happy.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

Same thing happened to me but with Emerald. I was comparing it side by side with Aura.

For being a top of the line at SW its a disappointment. I had to do 3 coats on a light color to kind a come close to 2 coats of Aura.

SuperPaint was another one. There was nothing Super about it.


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## The Cutting Edge (May 25, 2014)

Most on here love their cashmere. I am not one of those. After using it for 3 or 4 months I quit using it because of hide and adhesion. Super paint has way better hide. Ive moved to Pratt and Lambert now and won't go back.
Hey Pac I'm sure you'll check in on this thread. I was told that Pratt was changing colorants to something called geo shades by end of year. Have you received any info on this? Pretty sure its like Ben Moore genex colorants but can't find anything on the interweb.


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

The Cutting Edge said:


> Most on here love their cashmere. I am not one of those. After using it for 3 or 4 months I quit using it because of hide and adhesion. Super paint has way better hide. Ive moved to Pratt and Lambert now and won't go back.
> Hey Pac I'm sure you'll check in on this thread. I was told that Pratt was changing colorants to something called geo shades by end of year. Have you received any info on this? Pretty sure its like Ben Moore genex colorants but can't find anything on the interweb.


Adhesion? What are you painting where you experience adhesion problems with cashmere?


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## The Cutting Edge (May 25, 2014)

I did living room walls on one job in super paint velvet and a big accent wall with cashmere low luster. The accent was one shade darker with hardly any color difference. Cashmere took 3 coats. The super paint pretty much covered in the first coat. With 2 coats it was good to go.
I hate the way they do their sheens on cashmere as well. Can't they just make a freaking eggshell like most every other paint on earth.


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## The Cutting Edge (May 25, 2014)

epretot said:


> Adhesion? What are you painting where you experience adhesion problems with cashmere?


New construction lake house. One coat of 123 and 2 coats of cashmere low luster. Surfaces were clean and wet ragged. Two weeks later I was back to finish Polly on some trim. The carpenter taped the wall with blue tape to caulk around a vanity back splash. The paint pulled along with the tape. I had to tape the wall next to window casing the same day. Same thing happened to me. Rep said it was do to poor cleaning. The primer coat was still on the wall with no issue. I posted it on here last year. Could it have gotten a little dust between primer and top coat? I don't think so but I guess anything is possible.
I always sand between coats and use a radius 360 duster before next coat.
More power to you guys that just love it. Not me. I haven't changed anything I do before or after I quit using it. Hasn't happened to me since.


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## 804 Paint (Jan 31, 2014)

I have had hide issues with two coats of cashmere in Navajo white over a medium blue. Even the rolled section had issues. 

I have painted Regal Select straight white (no added colorant) over dark navy blue with perfect hide in two coats. Enough said. 


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

You can't expect Cashmere to cover in one, its not designed that way. Emerald would be your best bet for one coat hide. If you showed me that pic and said it was two coats I would understand. What is with the huge brush cuts around the switches? That will most often cause lap flashing with anything other than flats. Just use your roller to get close, if you hit the switch wipe it off. You should never need to cut more than a couple of inches off your surfaces, the roller will get within 1/2" from the trim or corners.


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## ElTacoPaco (Dec 11, 2015)

MikeCalifornia said:


> You can't expect Cashmere to cover in one, its not designed that way. Emerald would be your best bet for one coat hide. If you showed me that pic and said it was two coats I would understand. What is with the huge brush cuts around the switches? That will most often cause lap flashing with anything other than flats. Just use your roller to get close, if you hit the switch wipe it off. You should never need to cut more than a couple of inches off your surfaces, the roller will get within 1/2" from the trim or corners.


I am sorry but Emerald is a joke. Overpriced and underperforms. Not washable or scrubbable.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

It's all about the color. Aura has the same issues with some colors, really light yellows. The pigments are translucent.


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## AngieM (Apr 13, 2016)

MikeCalifornia said:


> You can't expect Cashmere to cover in one, its not designed that way. Emerald would be your best bet for one coat hide. If you showed me that pic and said it was two coats I would understand. What is with the huge brush cuts around the switches? That will most often cause lap flashing with anything other than flats. Just use your roller to get close, if you hit the switch wipe it off. You should never need to cut more than a couple of inches off your surfaces, the roller will get within 1/2" from the trim or corners.


My brush on the second coat was still streaking so I used a wiz roller.


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## AngieM (Apr 13, 2016)

The best decision I made was to prime the walls. I used SW water based problock. I needed three coats in some spots without it and as you know about the cashmere, the sheen keeps building with every coat.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

A Sherwin Williams product that won't cover a dark color with an off white? The He** you say! HERETIC!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

The Cutting Edge said:


> Most on here love their cashmere. I am not one of those. After using it for 3 or 4 months I quit using it because of hide and adhesion. Super paint has way better hide. Ive moved to Pratt and Lambert now and won't go back.
> Hey Pac I'm sure you'll check in on this thread. I was told that Pratt was changing colorants to something called geo shades by end of year. Have you received any info on this? Pretty sure its like Ben Moore genex colorants but can't find anything on the interweb.


I haven't heard anything yet as apparently they still haven't found a need to replace the sales rep that "retired". I'll probably get a mailer or something a week before I can't get what I'm using anymore. Seems to be the way they are doing things now.

And welcome to the dark side! We have a lot more fun over here!


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## Gymschu (Mar 11, 2011)

I know the bias and dislike of SW products is strong on here, but, as someone who is constantly striving to find a product that works for me from SW, I have had great success with Cashmere. I used to use SuperPaint, but was finding that when dry, the finish was rough. Cashmere, to me anyway, goes on buttery smooth, dries to a smooth finish, and covers just fine in 2 coats. I don't think I have ever expected ANY paint to cover in one coat even if it's white-on-white.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

epretot said:


> Adhesion? What are you painting where you experience adhesion problems with cashmere?


Cashmere is one of the paints I tested for adhesion on bare drywall after receiving numerous comments/complaints from some of my diy customers. It will peel pretty easily once it gets started with a scratch or something. Lots of newer paints will do this believe it or not! Two coats on properly cleaned drywall, 4 week cure time. It passes a standard crosshatch adhesion test, but if there is a scratch or a tape line or the like, it will peel pretty easily.


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## radio11 (Aug 14, 2015)

I like Regal as well, but costs me $13 more per gallon than Cashmere. Not familiar with P & L products. 

As far as sheen build, that always seems nullified by the 3rd coat of anything (in my experience). That comes mostly from multiple coats of red and similar. 


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

MikeCalifornia said:


> You can't expect Cashmere to cover in one, its not designed that way. Emerald would be your best bet for one coat hide. If you showed me that pic and said it was two coats I would understand. What is with the huge brush cuts around the switches? That will most often cause lap flashing with anything other than flats. Just use your roller to get close, if you hit the switch wipe it off. You should never need to cut more than a couple of inches off your surfaces, the roller will get within 1/2" from the trim or corners.


Emerald in one coat? What u smokin' bra?


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

straight_lines said:


> It's all about the color. Aura has the same issues with some colors, really light yellows. The pigments are translucent.


There is definitely an issue with the bright yellow Gennex colorant. Any small amount of it will adversely effect the hide. I noticed this quite frequently when working at the BM dealer.


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## stl911 (Jul 16, 2014)

the only SW product i use now is superpaint and proclassic. for any other SW product, they all have this kind hide issue even though my SW pricing is very attractive. but i stick with BM. it is because their hide ability is way better than SW.


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## AngieM (Apr 13, 2016)

Low Lustre? No.


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## AngieM (Apr 13, 2016)

If someone were standing outside that window. I could identify them from the couch on the other side of the room.


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## AngieM (Apr 13, 2016)

I recently tried the BM Aura. The "best" price they could give me was $55 a gallon. Yikes! Is this true?


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Angie_M said:


> I recently tried the BM Aura. The "best" price they could give me was $55 a gallon. Yikes! Is this true?


Best price I get around here is $64.


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## The Cutting Edge (May 25, 2014)

I know P&L is kind of hard to find in some places. If you can find it in your town you should give it a try. I get accolade for around $40 for int semi. Even their lower end pro hide gold is awesome paint for the $.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

The Cutting Edge said:


> I know P&L is kind of hard to find in some places. If you can find it in your town you should give it a try. I get accolade for around $40 for int semi. Even their lower end pro hide gold is awesome paint for the $.


During my very first exterior season, the guy who first trained me and I did an entire house covered with cedar shake shingles (Since Gough may correct me I'll say or whatever they're called ) with P&L super slow drying oil primer. What an absolute horrible mess we looked like at the end of the day.

Fingers would start cramping up from sticking together. Couldn't get the stuff off you at the end of the day. Everything you touched you'd stick to.

But man did that stuff stick. Top coated with their exterior latex (can't remember which line) and wow did it look great.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

The Cutting Edge said:


> I know P&L is kind of hard to find in some places. If you can find it in your town you should give it a try. I get accolade for around $40 for int semi. Even their lower end pro hide gold is awesome paint for the $.


have you tried the Prohide gold Ultra yet?


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## The Cutting Edge (May 25, 2014)

PACman said:


> have you tried the Prohide gold Ultra yet?


No. Haven't seen it at my store. Good stuff?


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

The Cutting Edge said:


> No. Haven't seen it at my store. Good stuff?


yeah. i'm in the process of switching to it. They are going to stop making the current Prohide gold at some point. I don't know when though.


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## 007 Dave (Jun 22, 2016)

Angie_M said:


> Low Lustre? No.


Only time I do one coat is when I am painting same color that is on the wall. My brother and I argue this all the time. He's a one coat guy when he can get a way with it. When ever I have a color change I just except the fact that I'll put two coats on it and I price it that way. I have one guy that is a great painter but when he gets in a hurry he puts it on to thick and I'll suggest him to get a wiz as well. Seems like you may be done using Cashmere after this job.I'm one of them that likes Cashmere. I use it every time I get the chance, But the low luster is a pretty high sheen if you don't like sheen. I make my own Cashmere eggshell.If you try this its best to use two Cashmere flat to one low luster and you get a true eggshell. If you don't need the third gallon just use one flat and one low luster It does bring down the sheen.


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## ElTacoPaco (Dec 11, 2015)

PACman said:


> Cashmere is one of the paints I tested for adhesion on bare drywall after receiving numerous comments/complaints from some of my diy customers. It will peel pretty easily once it gets started with a scratch or something. Lots of newer paints will do this believe it or not! Two coats on properly cleaned drywall, 4 week cure time. It passes a standard crosshatch adhesion test, but if there is a scratch or a tape line or the like, it will peel pretty easily.


Shrink Wrinkle & Peel!


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## ElTacoPaco (Dec 11, 2015)

Angie_M said:


> I recently tried the BM Aura. The "best" price they could give me was $55 a gallon. Yikes! Is this true?


Be happy because that is the price floor


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

I'm a big Cashmere guy and like others I never expect to get one coat hide. I do agree the low sheen isn't very low so I've switched to SuperPaint velvet (which I love) for jobs that require a satin finish. For flat I'm running Cashmere flat enamel, and low to mid end jobs I use the Cashmere medium luster. 

Never had a problem with hide but I definitely agree the low luster has way too much sheen. :yes:


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## AngieM (Apr 13, 2016)

I tried to find a duration matte thread to add on to but couldn't find one less than 7 years old on Google. So I'll add my experience today onto this one I started a couple of months ago when I swore on my career I would NEVER use Cashmere again. Unless of course, I'm working for someone else and getting paid by the hour. Then by all means. 

I'm test driving the Duration Matte and have been very impressed so far. This is what I expect of high quality paint for hide. This is accessible beige going over a dark maroon color. Not bad at all. 

Here's a riveting video!


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## 007 Dave (Jun 22, 2016)

AngieM said:


> I tried to find a duration matte thread to add on to but couldn't find one less than 7 years old on Google. So I'll add my experience today onto this one I started a couple of months ago when I swore on my career I would NEVER use Cashmere again. Unless of course, I'm working for someone else and getting paid by the hour. Then by all means.
> 
> I'm test driving the Duration Matte and have been very impressed so far. This is what I expect of high quality paint for hide. This is accessible beige going over a dark maroon color. Not bad at all.
> 
> ...


That did cover good. Did the roller cover just as good? What is the name of the Duration color you were using?


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## ParamountPaint (Aug 25, 2016)

Duration Matte covers pretty well. I wouldn't call it anything less than an eggshell, though. The last time I used it, it seemed gritty-ish after it dried.

Cashmere has worked for me, but never used it on a repaint.

P&L Prohide Gold flat is my rental paint. Occasionally, we get stuck with some Coronado stuff, and you can tell the difference in application. The Pro-Hide brushes especially smoothly in flat. It covers good enough for what we're doing (one coat, same color).

I used to use a bunch of P&L Accolade Oil...that was nice too. Also, some of the Red Seal back in the day.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

ParamountPaint said:


> Duration Matte covers pretty well. I wouldn't call it anything less than an eggshell, though. The last time I used it, it seemed gritty-ish after it dried.
> 
> Cashmere has worked for me, but never used it on a repaint.
> 
> ...


Prohide Gold is my big seller. Can't get painters to switch to it from PM200 at the same price though. Odd huh?


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## Vylum (May 12, 2016)

the cut lines look covered, i dont see the issue. when youre on your 5th coat start complaining


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## AngieM (Apr 13, 2016)

007 Dave said:


> That did cover good. Did the roller cover just as good? What is the name of the Duration color you were using?


Accessible Beige in the matte sheen. 

I was warned about the "angular sheen," on walls perpendicular from a window. I had to reroll a wall making sure I back rolled every pass finishing exactly the same as the last. Knowing that, I can adjust my technique accordingly. That's the only downside, application wise, I've had so far.


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## AngieM (Apr 13, 2016)

Vylum said:


> the cut lines look covered, i dont see the issue. when youre on your 5th coat start complaining


I'd be complaining on the 3rd coat.


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## The Cutting Edge (May 25, 2014)

PACman said:


> Prohide Gold is my big seller. Can't get painters to switch to it from PM200 at the same price though. Odd huh?


Its no contest. Pro hide goes on easier with less drag and a smoother finish. Pro hide comes in even less for me than 200. I had to use 200 two weeks ago to match existing paint. Hated every minute of it.
Ive been using Accolade all this year on exterior repaints and interior trim. Pro hide or red seal on interior walls. I absolutely love the whole Pratt and Lambert line. I'm doing an exterior next week that is all mad dog primer top coated with accolade. Can't wait to see it in 10 or 15 years. Still waiting on hillbilly test lab results Pac.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

The Cutting Edge said:


> Its no contest. Pro hide goes on easier with less drag and a smoother finish. Pro hide comes in even less for me than 200. I had to use 200 two weeks ago to match existing paint. Hated every minute of it.
> Ive been using Accolade all this year on exterior repaints and interior trim. Pro hide or red seal on interior walls. I absolutely love the whole Pratt and Lambert line. I'm doing an exterior next week that is all mad dog primer top coated with accolade. Can't wait to see it in 10 or 15 years. Still waiting on hillbilly test lab results Pac.


My hillbilly test results are here in my store if you want to see them! Everything you mentioned. Plus, Prohide gold is a much cleaner white so you can get it in the light colors that you can't get in the Promar lines. (Most SW lines for that matter). Painters around here don't get it though. They just can't comprehend how those attributes benefit them.

Have you used the Prohide gold Ultra products yet? They are actually quite an improvement over the Prohide gold line. Eventually they will stop making the Prohide gold and will start sending the Prohide gold ultra to the dealers who haven't made the switch yet. The Ultra line also has it's sheen levels in compliance with MPI standards, which apparently is a big thing to P&L.

Also, to all of you north central Ohio painters that use the old "SW is what is on the spec." Bull5hit. EVERY SINGLE SW SPEC IS ALSO SPEC'D FOR PRATT & LAMBERT! So it isn't a good excuse to not try it. Stop feeding me that line.


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## Jack leg pro (Oct 27, 2016)

I would say slightly unrealistic expectations. I've always been a much bigger fan of super paint


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## The Cutting Edge (May 25, 2014)

PACman said:


> My hillbilly test results are here in my store if you want to see them! Everything you mentioned. Plus, Prohide gold is a much cleaner white so you can get it in the light colors that you can't get in the Promar lines. (Most SW lines for that matter). Painters around here don't get it though. They just can't comprehend how those attributes benefit them.
> 
> Have you used the Prohide gold Ultra products yet? They are actually quite an improvement over the Prohide gold line. Eventually they will stop making the Prohide gold and will start sending the Prohide gold ultra to the dealers who haven't made the switch yet. The Ultra line also has it's sheen levels in compliance with MPI standards, which apparently is a big thing to P&L.
> 
> Also, to all of you north central Ohio painters that use the old "SW is what is on the spec." Bull5hit. EVERY SINGLE SW SPEC IS ALSO SPEC'D FOR PRATT & LAMBERT! So it isn't a good excuse to not try it. Stop feeding me that line.


No I haven't used the ultra yet. My store hasn't made the change over. They told me it was coming along with the geo shades. You know Pac some painters are just too stoned to care about the difference. The only drag they care about has nothing to do with paint.


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## ParamountPaint (Aug 25, 2016)

I'm definitely in favor of ProHide Gold in flat. I haven't used any other sheens in that line, but it brushes more like an eggshell over eggshell, than clay over sandpaper.


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