# Harness for roof work



## Pete Martin the Painter

I am putting in a bid for a job that has a dormer and copula that have never been painted that is on a pretty steep roof. Plan on using Pivit Roof Boot and use ladders to paint the sides of the dormer. I have not decided what to do about the copula yet. I would like to invest in a harness for extra security in case I slip, plus I think it will make me feel a lot safer. Do these things need special training?









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## Jmayspaint

I would say yes if you have never worn one or used safety ropes before. I imagine there are online training videos that could show you the basics of how to put one on and adjust it correctly. Show you the basics about knots and carabiners and such. 

I used to rock climb and took some classes in that that transferred well to safety rope setting. Seems like it would be good to at least know the basics before trying to set something up. 

Are you thinking to tie off to the dormer itself?


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## Pete Martin the Painter

Jmayspaint said:


> I would say yes if you have never worn one or used safety ropes before. I imagine there are online training videos that could show you the basics of how to put one on and adjust it correctly. Show you the basics about knots and carabiners and such.
> 
> I used to rock climb and took some classes in that that transferred well to safety rope setting. Seems like it would be good to at least know the basics before trying to set something up.
> 
> Are you thinking to tie off to the dormer itself?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I was thinking of tying off on the copula.

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## kmp

You will need a climbing harness rather than a safety harness for working out of a bucket. Don't let osha see you using one as they don't accept them but they are far safer. These harness's tie in at the front rather than the back so if you fall you can turn yourself around and right yourself easier.A basic harness will set you back around 60 70 dollars.You will need some ascenders, a lot more money, to work up and down the rope. Carabiners and slings required. If you can tie off the other side of the building and work your way up the rope with safety till you reach the cupola. If you do it right you won't need to tie off onto the cupola. Do not use cheap rope.Wear knee pads. I have been climbing since I was 17 and am now 66, you can do the math and have done this many, many, many times. I suggest if you have any second thoughts doing this you pass on this one. It may look simple, and kind of is but very serious. Pm me if you have any questions.


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## Pete Martin the Painter

kmp said:


> You will need a climbing harness rather than a safety harness for working out of a bucket. Don't let osha see you using one as they don't accept them but they are far safer. These harness's tie in at the front rather than the back so if you fall you can turn yourself around and right yourself easier.A basic harness will set you back around 60 70 dollars.You will need some ascenders, a lot more money, to work up and down the rope. Carabiners and slings required. If you can tie off the other side of the building and work your way up the rope with safety till you reach the cupola. If you do it right you won't need to tie off onto the cupola. Do not use cheap rope.Wear knee pads. I have been climbing since I was 17 and am now 66, you can do the math and have done this many, many, many times. I suggest if you have any second thoughts doing this you pass on this one. It may look simple, and kind of is but very serious. Pm me if you have any questions.


Thanks. But, I will not be working out of a bucket. The dormer is easy to get to, but I just want to feel a bit safer when working on the sides of the dormer. 

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## lilpaintchic

Id seriously consider a lift for the day.heck, you can rent one for a couple hundred bucks a day (or less) depending on the lift. If you can get one in there, you can probably make good use of it elsewhere saving lots of time and removing some risk.that makes you more $$ on the back end. If ya can't then yes, invest in a good climbing or otherwise tied off harness system....

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## kmp

What I am talking about is for the dormers and cupola and not out of a bucket. The harness and other gear is for being on the roof. It is still a pain in the ass to get roof jacks and planks and ladders and any other kind of stuff up there and set it up. Key sentence, " In case I slip." What is the sphincter factor going to be up there? Do it in the morning before the roof gets too hot.


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## jacob33

I'm sure the pivot roof boot would work fine but I Think some ladder hooks going over the ridge would be easier. Are you painting just the wood or the plastic looking thing at the top as well that the wind direction is on?


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## jacob33

And another thing I am all for a harness but if you do not have them yet cougar paws roofing boots are a must. I would not trust them alone especially not on this roof but I can tell you they grip like none other.


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## Pete Martin the Painter

jacob33 said:


> I'm sure the pivot roof boot would work fine but I Think some ladder hooks going over the ridge would be easier. Are you painting just the wood or the plastic looking thing at the top as well that the wind direction is on?


I am only painting the lower half of the cupola. 

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## Pete Martin the Painter

jacob33 said:


> And another thing I am all for a harness but if you do not have them yet cougar paws roofing boots are a must. I would not trust them alone especially not on this roof but I can tell you they grip like none other.


Thanks. I think that I might get some of these even if I do not get the job.

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## Pete Martin the Painter

jacob33 said:


> I'm sure the pivot roof boot would work fine but I Think some ladder hooks going over the ridge would be easier. Are you painting just the wood or the plastic looking thing at the top as well that the wind direction is on?


The reason that I do not want to use a ladder hook is that I would have to use a longer and heavier ladder, which would be much harder to lug up there. I can use a really light weight ladder with the roof boot.

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## CApainter

I suggest going with the standard five point Safety Harness and shock absorbing lanyard. For the application you have, you'll need a length of life line that you could drape over the roof and attach to a sound anchor. Use a "rope grab" to move up or down the life line. I'd be more concerned about securing your paint bucket. Maybe attach it to your body with a hook, or create a small level platform.


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## Wolfgang

Pete Martin the Painter said:


> I am putting in a bid for a job that has a dormer and copula that have never been painted that is on a pretty steep roof. Plan on using Pivit Roof Boot and use ladders to paint the sides of the dormer. I have not decided what to do about the copula yet. I would like to invest in a harness for extra security in case I slip, plus I think it will make me feel a lot safer. Do these things need special training?
> 
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> Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk


I hated them then and hate them now. Every time I see one now, I think to myself I'm glad I won't be the one to have to get up there.

Kinda funny that as you age, ranch style exteriors look better and better.


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## ridesarize

Pete, you need to use a osha certified d-ring and 4" screws specifically made to withstand the 5000 lb shock force that is possible with a fall. The structure or object that the d-ring is attached to has to be able to take a 5000 lb force, or equivalent of hanging a truck from it.

You need to have 2 people on site, per osha regs and in reality, if you fall and are hanging by a rope who's going to call the fire department, who's going to get you down to take you to the hospital? Fall protection training will teach you that if you fall off a roof while you're harnessed up you will have to go to the hospital most likely. 

If you are wearing a five point fall protection harness standard in the trades, and you take a fall off a roof you have less than 10 minutes to get down before major damage to your body or death can happen. A couple minutes could mean pernanante disability or amputation of a limb even.

You will not be able to get rescued by somebody and a ladder. it takes a team of people like the fire department to get you down. Technically by OSHA standards you're not allowed to bear your weight on the rope that you're tied off to as well, although it seems practical.

Learn the difference between fall arrest and fall restraint. When tied off in Fall restraint your d-ring only has to hold a 2500 lb minimum. 

Like others mentioned sometimes a climbing harness seems better, and definitely is useful while working. 

Fall protection training is important. By L&I regs here in WA you have to complete a fall protection plan on paper and have workers understand and sign it ( On every applicable job)

If I were going to be doing roof work I would make certain that my ground guy fully understands the dangers that I explained and knows how to deal with the emergency. if you tell a carpenter inside or a neighbor to keep an eye on you you're asking for trouble.


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## Pete Martin the Painter

ridesarize said:


> Pete, you need to use a osha certified d-ring and 4" screws specifically made to withstand the 5000 lb shock force that is possible with a fall. The structure or object that the d-ring is attached to has to be able to take a 5000 lb force, or equivalent of hanging a truck from it.
> 
> You need to have 2 people on site, per osha regs and in reality, if you fall and are hanging by a rope who's going to call the fire department, who's going to get you down to take you to the hospital? Fall protection training will teach you that if you fall off a roof while you're harnessed up you will have to go to the hospital most likely.
> 
> If you are wearing a five point fall protection harness standard in the trades, and you take a fall off a roof you have less than 10 minutes to get down before major damage to your body or death can happen. A couple minutes could mean pernanante disability or amputation of a limb even.
> 
> You will not be able to get rescued by somebody and a ladder. it takes a team of people like the fire department to get you down. Technically by OSHA standards you're not allowed to bear your weight on the rope that you're tied off to as well, although it seems practical.
> 
> Learn the difference between fall arrest and fall restraint. When tied off in Fall restraint your d-ring only has to hold a 2500 lb minimum.
> 
> Like others mentioned sometimes a climbing harness seems better, and definitely is useful while working.
> 
> Fall protection training is important. By L&I regs here in WA you have to complete a fall protection plan on paper and have workers understand and sign it ( On every applicable job)
> 
> If I were going to be doing roof work I would make certain that my ground guy fully understands the dangers that I explained and knows how to deal with the emergency. if you tell a carpenter inside or a neighbor to keep an eye on you you're asking for trouble.


Thanks for the info, I was not going to be working alone. But, all moot now becasue I did not get the job. Almost kind a happy about it. Along with dealing with the roof, it was was right on the water, which often makes getting a full day of work in difficult.

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## Drew007

*Holy Crap*



Pete Martin the Painter said:


> I am putting in a bid for a job that has a dormer and copula that have never been painted that is on a pretty steep roof. Plan on using Pivit Roof Boot and use ladders to paint the sides of the dormer. I have not decided what to do about the copula yet. I would like to invest in a harness for extra security in case I slip, plus I think it will make me feel a lot safer. Do these things need special training?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk


Thats a freaking steep roof.


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## Pete Martin the Painter

Drew007 said:


> Thats a freaking steep roof.


Yes, I was kind of relieved when I did not get the job.

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## Jmayspaint

I had a dormer on a real steep roof to do today. Normally I would have run a ladder up the roof, tied it off, and just used the rungs to walk on. The landscaping made that approach impossible so we broke out the ropes and harness. Tied off on the other side. 










It’s been quite a while since I’ve done any work like this. My legs feel like jello after spending half a day up there. 


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## Eagle Cap Painter

I thought Pete was a sole proprietor so OSHA doesn't matter.


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## Pete Martin the Painter

Eagle Cap Painter said:


> I thought Pete was a sole proprietor so OSHA doesn't matter.


I am, and is that true, and if so why?

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## Eagle Cap Painter

Pete Martin the Painter said:


> I am, and is that true, and if so why?
> 
> Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk


There are some exceptions, but OSHA only regulates companies with employees. As long as it's just you out there, feel free to stand on the top of your stepladder, lean that baby against a wall, or wear a climbing harness. I've been thinking about some roof hooks for my extension ladders to deal with the steeper ones because I am just too afraid of putting holes in someone's roof with a Pivit boot or roofing toeboards.


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## 54pontiac

So I have to paint a dormer on a steep roof with a solar panel right next to it, not enough room to step. Any ideas how to approach this? I can't seem to upload a picture, sorry.


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## lilpaintchic

54pontiac said:


> So I have to paint a dormer on a steep roof with a solar panel right next to it, not enough room to step. Any ideas how to approach this? I can't seem to upload a picture, sorry.


Use a lift if possible? Hard to say with no pic....

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## 54pontiac

I'm afraid renting a bucket isn't in the budget. I was thinking of putting ladder brackets on the top and bottom of one rank of an extension ladder and hooking it over the top of the solar panel. Then walking on top of the ladder. Apparently I don't have enough posts to submit images.


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## finishesbykevyn

54pontiac said:


> I'm afraid renting a bucket isn't in the budget. I was thinking of putting ladder brackets on the top and bottom of one rank of an extension ladder and hooking it over the top of the solar panel. Then walking on top of the ladder. Apparently I don't have enough posts to submit images.


That sounds sketchy.


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## finishesbykevyn

Jmayspaint said:


> I had a dormer on a real steep roof to do today. Normally I would have run a ladder up the roof, tied it off, and just used the rungs to walk on. The landscaping made that approach impossible so we broke out the ropes and harness. Tied off on the other side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It’s been quite a while since I’ve done any work like this. My legs feel like jello after spending half a day up there.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Id Say! Why no roof jacks? what are the things your walking on?


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## lilpaintchic

finishesbykevyn said:


> Id Say! Why no roof jacks? what are the things your walking on?


Foam. 

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## Jmayspaint

lilpaintchic said:


> Foam.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk




Foam it is. I’ve only known that trick for about 5 years now. I scrambled around shingled roofs for the better part of my career without ever thinking to use traction pads. Then one day this guy I was working with, who wasn’t a good worker at all and didn’t last long, told me he had seen some roofers using foam pads for traction. I tried it and was blown away. 

One of those face palm moments where you can’t believe you are just now figuring something out that could have made life so much easier in the past. 


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## Jmayspaint

finishesbykevyn said:


> Id Say! Why no roof jacks? what are the things your walking on?




I don’t use roof jacks unless absolutely necessary. Didn’t seem to be so in this case. 
Foam pads are immeasurably helpful on a shingled roof. Wish I would have known that 20 years ago. 


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## lilpaintchic

Jmayspaint said:


> Foam it is. I’ve only known that trick for about 5 years now. I scrambled around shingled roofs for the better part of my career without ever thinking to use traction pads. Then one day this guy I was working with, who wasn’t a good worker at all and didn’t last long, told me he had seen some roofers using foam pads for traction. I tried it and was blown away.
> 
> One of those face palm moments where you can’t believe you are just now figuring something out that could have made life so much easier in the past.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yup.i just got it myself a few years back. Its AWESOME. And it can be used as a drop when you spill the bucket of dark brown paint all over yourself while its attached to your harness while you're pearched on a rope on a roof like the one in your pic. Uhhhhh....my friend told me that.

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## Mr Smith

Jmayspaint said:


> I don’t use roof jacks unless absolutely necessary. Didn’t seem to be so in this case.
> Foam pads are immeasurably helpful on a shingled roof. Wish I would have known that 20 years ago.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Where do you buy foam pads? Are you talking about carpet padding? What thickness?


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## Mr Smith

I've never used a safety rope on a roof.

I always wondered where they screw in the safety bracket for the safety rope? Fasten to the dormer? I have no idea if I'm messing up a roof when I screw in 1.5" screws under the roof shingles. I normally use roof jacks in combination with the yellow roof boots for my Pivit tools. 

I just leave the screws in place and put caulking on top of the screws so it doesn't cause leaks.


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## Jmayspaint

Mr Smith said:


> Where do you buy foam pads? Are you talking about carpet padding? What thickness?




The ones in that pic are a cut up mattress topper. Just a foam mattress from Walmart. I’ve also used old couch cushions with the covers taken off. 


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## Jmayspaint

Jmayspaint said:


> The ones in that pic are a cut up mattress topper. Just a foam mattress from Walmart. I’ve also used old couch cushions with the covers taken off.
> I don’t think carpet padding would be strong enough. Seems like it would tear easily
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk







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## ridesarize

Mr Smith said:


> I've never used a safety rope on a roof.
> 
> I always wondered where they screw in the safety bracket for the safety rope? Fasten to the dormer? I have no idea if I'm messing up a roof when I screw in 1.5" screws under the roof shingles. I normally use roof jacks in combination with the yellow roof boots for my Pivit tools.
> 
> I just leave the screws in place and put caulking on top of the screws so it doesn't cause leaks.


The safety bracket is called a roof anchor or a d-ring. Some roof anchors are built to stay with the house and are located near the peaks of the roof. These tie offs should be installed two regulations using the correct screws that come with them, which which is like 8 or more 4 inch specialty screws.

you can install a temporary D ring in certain locations of the house as long as it is part of the main structure of the framing that can withstand a 5000 lb shock when tied off in fall arrest mode and 2500 lb when using restraint technique. Restraint technique means you're always taking up the slack so you cannot fall off the roof. Fall-arrest means there is slack in the line but it would catch you if you fell off. 

Always use restraint technique...

Your ropes D rings harnesses rope grabs and shock absorbers all need to be correct safety gear, that is up-to-date and in good condition. Safety ropes are 5/8 in diameter with locking hook to attach to the D-ring.


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## 54pontiac

finishesbykevyn said:


> That sounds sketchy.


I actually did it and it worked! But Painttalk wouldn't let me post pictures. Maybe someday!


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## Epoxy Pro

54pontiac said:


> I'm afraid renting a bucket isn't in the budget. I was thinking of putting ladder brackets on the top and bottom of one rank of an extension ladder and hooking it over the top of the solar panel. Then walking on top of the ladder. Apparently I don't have enough posts to submit images.


I wouldn't set the ladder up on top of the panels, they will break.


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## jennifertemple

Wolfgang said:


> I hated them then and hate them now. Every time I see one now, I think to myself I'm glad I won't be the one to have to get up there.
> 
> Kinda funny that as you age, ranch style exteriors look better and better.


Ain't that the truth!!


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