# Trim paint cracking



## PaintWM (Feb 4, 2016)

Hey guys, I have a new customer with paint cracking issues on the trim throughout their house. It was painted 10 years ago, and most of the trim paint, especially on the windows and doors is cracking. The basement and another room that was finished later were painted with a different product and are doing fine.

My question: will I be fine just scraping/sanding/priming the areas that are cracking and then repainting everything? I am just worried that the areas that look fine now and I just paint over will start cracking in a few years as the issue seems to be with either the primer that was used or the paint. Also, what process would you recommend. I was almost thinking of trying peelbond as the primer to help reduce any further cracking and smoothen things out.

Insight is greatly appreciated as I have not run into this issue before on an interior. Pictures are attached. Thanks!


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

Soooo...is that oil over bare wood? Did any of it actually get primed?


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

You got a mess there. Everything needs to be sanded down. Everything in the house needs to be moved and/or covered. Use sanders with dust extraction attached. That is one full on paint job. Are you a professional painter or diy'er?


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

So besides the scope of the prep and paint work, possibly check the wood/mdf for signs of high humidity or long term moisture issues. 

Looks like an old trim jobwhere someone put latex over gloss oil without sanding or priming.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

Imo, it looks like a builders blowngo. No primer, just shot with oil...solid doors, not preprimed?


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## 007 Dave (Jun 22, 2016)

OH MY! You do have your work cut out for you. My first guess would be it was done with white lacquer on a wet or humid day. But looks like the grain in the wood is raised so probably cheap latex primer or no primer at all. You definitely have to sand the old cracking paint off. I've not used peelbond, some one else can help you and that one. I would not make any promises to the home owner that it will not occur again if you don't take the time to get the old paint off.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

I see that all the time the last few years. paint and primer in one. Most likely Premium Plus Ultra. $50 says it is.

I have my craps table on order BTW.


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## PaintWM (Feb 4, 2016)

This is the stuff I am 90% sure they used. I asked the homeowner about signs of humidity such as window fogging etc. and he said there wasn't. Like I said, the trim painted in the areas that were finished later is performing great. I'm guessing that a primer wasn't used.

Right now I'm just trying to figure out if sanding the cracking areas, a good primer and new coat of paint will fix the issue. If not and everything has to be sanded down to the bare wood like ridesarize says, I probably will pass on the job.


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## PaintWM (Feb 4, 2016)

lilpaintchic said:


> Imo, it looks like a builders blowngo. No primer, just shot with oil...solid doors, not preprimed?


Lacquer I believe. I'm guessing no primer. The doors are a composite of sorts, not solid.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

Well there's some winter work for ya...see ya in the spring. And wear a dust mask.


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## 007 Dave (Jun 22, 2016)

You have a lot of sanding and prep ahead of you no matter what you do. I know I'm not going to tell you anything you don't already know. and I'm sure you've heard your top coat is as good as whats underneath it. Make sure you sand all you can. Maybe you can charge an hourly rate for the prep just so you don't go in the hole or tell them they would be better of getting new doors and start from scratch. Use a good primer and again don't make them any promises that it won't happen in another 10 years. Maybe they will wait until Jan. or Feb. when things are slow. Good luck to you any way you go.


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## ridesarize (Jun 19, 2012)

Was the house new and painted 10 years ago, or an older house that was repainted 10 years ago? Does the white lacquer seem to be the 10 year old stuff, or newer? 

Does the flaking paint reveal a lacquer finish beneath, an oil, or factory primer, or raw wood?
Are baseboards flaking?


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## PaintWM (Feb 4, 2016)

007 Dave said:


> You have a lot of sanding and prep ahead of you no matter what you do. I know I'm not going to tell you anything you don't already know. and I'm sure you've heard your top coat is as good as whats underneath it. Make sure you sand all you can. Maybe you can charge an hourly rate for the prep just so you don't go in the hole or tell them they would be better of getting new doors and start from scratch. Use a good primer and again don't make them any promises that it won't happen in another 10 years. Maybe they will wait until Jan. or Feb. when things are slow. Good luck to you any way you go.


Sounds like good advise to me. Thank you.


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## PaintWM (Feb 4, 2016)

ridesarize said:


> Was the house new and painted 10 years ago, or an older house that was repainted 10 years ago? Does the white lacquer seem to be the 10 year old stuff, or newer?
> 
> Does the flaking paint reveal a lacquer finish beneath, an oil, or factory primer, or raw wood?
> Are baseboards flaking?


It was a new house painted 10 years ago. I believe the paint is the 10 year old stuff but of course not 100% sure. I can not see anything but bare wood underneath the flaking. The baseboards have a small amount of cracking in 2 or 3 areas, but it is much much less.


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## AngieM (Apr 13, 2016)

Wow @007 Dave. You called it with the white lacquer. How could you tell? 

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk


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## goga (Aug 6, 2015)

PaintWM said:


> I probably will pass on the job.


Just pass on the job, it is not worth even hourly.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

@Angie...the way it's failing is different than latex....it looks very brittle. Chips on the grain of the door and window (where it's more exposed to temp swings and moisture) the raised grain and likely wasn't dry to begin with when the finish was applied. That finish sealed it. Uv and moisture =nightmare.Water will escape initially pushing the coating off a little, then it just follows the path of least resistance, which with an inflexible finish such as lacquer, just fails everywhere. (oil would do something similar in similar conditions, i thought the door looked awfully shiny for lacquer...great call dave!)latex might crack but not quite like that, and not as much in such a short period of time unless conditions were ridiculously moist maybe...kinda hard to explain in a post. I'm putting money on doors/case/ base in wet areas or on exterior walls. The newer stuff probably has primer and then finish, not lacquer.

I used to have a customer with a white lacquer finish throughout. They had a gallon of product on site that I took down to the paint store and had them put it into spray cans for me. Minimum of 6 cans ordered. I think it was about 6 or $7 a can.ho paid for it, and made their maintenance projects look great for years...cant brush it, gotta spray it....hvlp or bomb can.. I hate white lacquer....pita to maintain. Good luck with it.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Is it doing this everywhere equally or is it just certain areas? I'm wondering if it could have been caused by it not being stirred or shaken properly when they used it. (although some pre-cats shouldn't be shaken!) Or possibly over reduced. It could have been over catalyzed when it was packaged but I doubt it.

(sorry to jump on the paint and primer thing right out of the gate!)


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## loaded brush (Dec 27, 2007)

Run Forest Run!


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Windows are usually factory primed. Maybe the interior primer is just as bad as the pre-prime on exterior wood if there is any moisture at all. When I have had windows like that, there is usually condensation in the winter on the glass that causes the failure.


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## 007 Dave (Jun 22, 2016)

AngieM said:


> Wow @007 Dave. You called it with the white lacquer. How could you tell?
> 
> Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk


Thank you Angie. I'm really not that smart. I've just seen it a few times. White lacquer is thinner than a paint would be and most of the time more brittle than paint once it start peeling. The edge of the door looks brittle to me.


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## SWPB (Oct 6, 2016)

It's rare to run into M L Campbell outside of OEM shops. Throw the product to the side and everyone is on the right track: sand, prime, and refinish. My preference would be for an oil prime to penetrate & topcoat with a premium trim paint. If you need to recaulk any areas, do not skimp. Nothing worse than a premium paint being wasted by a crappy $1 per tube of 850A caulk from S-W. Spend over $2 and find one that will last.


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