# Bad finish using Multi Surface Enamel



## Mr Smith (Mar 11, 2016)

I had some bad results after spraying SW Multi Surface enamel. Weird because I used the same product out of the same 5 gallon pale with great results earlier this year.

I set up a spray booth in a garage.

strained and mixed the paint well

Sprayed with a Graco FF 310

I tested the tip and it looked good on the paper test sample.

This took forever to dry because of a lack of air movement inside the spray booth. The only opening was a zipper in the plastic. I didn't want to use a fan because it might blow the dust around inside the booth.

I went back to look in 1/2 hour and it looked like crap with a bunch of orange peel. While drying, it was tough to see if it was curtaining a bit because of possibly too thick a coat. I've never had curtaining before so this is a first for me. It just looked like massive orange peel while drying. Some paints can freak you out like that.

Went back to look 4 hours later and it was MUCH improved but I didn't look closely with my Festool rechargeable light.

What's the fix if it looks bad tomorrow?

Acrylic enamels don't sand very well. What's the process of wet sanding? Should I use 180 grit, soak the sandpaper, and just spray water on the door too while sanding? Is using a palm sander, not a good idea?

I plan on adding a bit of warm water and maybe some Benjamin Moore Extender. Maybe that'll loosen it up and get better atomization. I'll buy a new 310 FFLP tip too. I was using the old style 310 FF.

Thoughts?


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

I've sprayed a decent amount of it and never had those issues. I always used a tritech 310 so the tip size isn't the problem. My guess is that you went too heavy. It's a thin product to begin with, I always went on the lighter side when spraying it. Couple that with lack of air movement and possibly a good amount of humidity and I think you have your problem. 

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## Mr Smith (Mar 11, 2016)

Rbriggs82 said:


> I've sprayed a decent amount of it and never had those issues. I always used a tritech 310 so the tip size isn't the problem. My guess is that you went too heavy. It's a thin product to begin with, I always went on the lighter side when spraying it. Couple that with lack of air movement and possibly a good amount of humidity and I think you have your problem.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


I just checked it out today and it's just one side of a single door that came out rough looking. That paint looks terrible when drying. Mt rep comped me a free pale to try of the All Purpose enamel. I'll give it a wet sand and see how that works.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

That's not too bad. You're right though, I haven't sprayed it in a while, but I remember it always looked horrible until dry.


Mr Smith said:


> I just checked it out today and it's just one side of a single door that came out rough looking. That paint looks terrible when drying. Mt rep comped me a free pale to try of the All Purpose enamel. I'll give it a wet sand and see how that works.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Mr Smith said:


> I had some bad results after spraying SW Multi Surface enamel. Weird because I used the same product out of the same 5 gallon pale with great results earlier this year.
> 
> I set up a spray booth in a garage.
> 
> ...


What exactly were you spraying Mr. Smith? Also how was the final results of the SW multi purpose enamel? Never used it..Also, I've been using a 308ff on cabinet doors with Advance mostly. A little less aggressive than the 310.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Mr Smith said:


> I had some bad results after spraying SW Multi Surface enamel. Weird because I used the same product out of the same 5 gallon pale with great results earlier this year.
> 
> I set up a spray booth in a garage.
> 
> ...


What exactly were you spraying Mr. Smith? Also how was the final results of the SW multi purpose enamel? Never used it..Also, I've been using a 308ff on cabinet doors with Advance mostly. A little less aggressive than the 310.
Also, yes you need airflow and good humidity readings for most of these products...I have a humidity reader in my shop and like to have it between 50-65%. I also dry my doors flat..


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## Mr Smith (Mar 11, 2016)

finishesbykevyn said:


> What exactly were you spraying Mr. Smith? Also how was the final results of the SW multi purpose enamel? Never used it..Also, I've been using a 308ff on cabinet doors with Advance mostly. A little less aggressive than the 310.
> Also, yes you need airflow and good humidity readings for most of these products...I have a humidity reader in my shop and like to have it between 50-65%. I also dry my doors flat..


The only space I had was a 14x12 area in a two car garage. I zip-walled to make a sealed spray booth. Obviously no air flow. I opened up the zipper after the dust settled.

The 5 gallon pail of MSE was sitting for a year and all I did was strain and mix. I should have loosened it up by adding some warm water. I did that on the 2nd coat and the finish was much better.

On the first coat, I used a 310 FF and possibly went a bit too thick. It orange peeled in places, especially at the top of the doors. 

I wet sanded all of them the next day and sprayed with a new 310 FFLP tip. The finish was a bit dusty feeling on two doors (near the door handle panel) because I went faster and didn't put enough product on this time. I rubbed them with tissue paper the next day and it helped. Kinda like polishing a finish.

It was my first time using a FFLP tip. There is a learning curve and it's almost like using an HVLP. It's going to take a while to learn how to use them properly.

I'd give those doors a 7/10 grade. The MSE is also very shiny in a semi-gloss. Almost like a gloss paint. That didn't help. I will only use MSE in a commercial environment next time where perfection isn't usually required. Tough enamel though.

This is one of the very few times that my doors didn't come out like glass. I don't think I'll use Graco FFLP tips again nor the MSE for residential.

....or it could have been user error. I hadn't sprayed interior doors vertically in a while. If I was to guess, it was because of a lack of air flow, spraying a bit too thick and using paint that might have lost some water volume. (too thick)

Don't get me wrong, the doors looked good for the most part. Just not up to my usual standards. The customer didn't notice anything.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Mr Smith said:


> The only space I had was a 14x12 area in a two car garage. I zip-walled to make a sealed spray booth. Obviously no air flow. I opened up the zipper after the dust settled.
> 
> The 5 gallon pail of MSE was sitting for a year and all I did was strain and mix. I should have loosened it up by adding some warm water. I did that on the 2nd coat and the finish was much better.
> 
> ...


Glad it worked out in the end. Spraying cabinet doors in a non controlled environment can be so frustrating...
You may consider a portable dry rack and running a fan after dust settles..
I too find that it's very easy to put heavy coats on with airless. The fine finish tips are great though, but do atomize the paint different for sure.
I've been experimenting with HVLP application. So controlled! Little bit slower though, and also finding I have to thin my products which I don't like to do. .


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## Mr Smith (Mar 11, 2016)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Glad it worked out in the end. Spraying cabinet doors in a non controlled environment can be so frustrating...
> You may consider a portable dry rack and running a fan after dust settles..
> I too find that it's very easy to put heavy coats on with airless. The fine finish tips are great though, but do atomize the paint different for sure.
> I've been experimenting with HVLP application. So controlled! Little bit slower though, and also finding I have to thin my products which I don't like to do. .


They were regular doors, not cabinet. I used both 'Fine Finish' and Fine Finish Low pressure tips. The FFLP does have a learning curve. At this time I'm not convinced that they are worth $15 more than the regular FF tips. I'm hearing that Graco will keep producing the FF tips thank goodness. Originally there was talk that the FFLP would be replacing the FF tips.

I had a 3 stage HVLP with a built-in compressor and it wasn't very useful. It was crap for acrylic paints. I had to thin them up to 50% which is obviously not good. Also, the hot turbine air can ruin finishes. I even bought an extra length of hose to cool the air down but that didn't help much. It's way too much trouble for my liking. I'm curious if those Titan 6 stage HVLP are any good. I know the Idaho painter uses one for shooting hot lacquer.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

I have a question. have any of you ever considered using Rustoleum Alkyd on cabinets?


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

PACman said:


> I have a question. have any of you ever considered using Rustoleum Alkyd on cabinets?


I've considered it for an Exterior door. I don't think I'd want to be spraying that much alkyd in my shop, or in my clients house. I'm sure it would be bomb proof though.. Is that tintable?


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

finishesbykevyn said:


> I've considered it for an Exterior door. I don't think I'd want to be spraying that much alkyd in my shop, or in my clients house. I'm sure it would be bomb proof though.. Is that tintable?


yeah it's tintable. At least by a competent store employee.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

PACman said:


> yeah it's tintable. At least by a competent store employee.


Lol. what's the recoat time on that? Still on the look for a good ext. door product with fast turn around..


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