# SW "wall and wood" vs ppg "fastdry latex undercoat"



## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

Who has sprayed both? Which lays down better? Which sands better? 

Both are around the $25 mark for me. 

I brushed some wall and wood a long time ago. It sanded but was ropey for me when applied even quickly. Never sprayed it. 


If not is it worth sticking with one of the acrylic alkyd primers? I know zinnser smart prime lays down pretty nice and has a bit of sheen to it. It's also around the $20-25 mark. 

I know primecoat2 is been recommended around here and from that one behr painter. 

Looking for a waterborne product for preprimed wood trim for airless spray (not mdf as recently discussed). 

Really looking at the wall and wood vs seal grip fastdry latex undercoat comparison. I'd imagine they have to be similar.


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

Your asking for someone who's used both to comment. Sorry to disappoint, but I haven't used both wall wood vs ppg. But I have used wall & wood and it's good stuff.

Blocks pretty well, tintable to virtually any color, resins in it allow for full sheen development of the top coat (unlike lesser primers), sands pretty decently for a latex based paint. Don't really have any complaints about it other than price, it's a bit up there for my region/pricing. If it was cheaper I'd use more of it. 

Side note: I think it's an interior only primer, not designed for exterior. I think*. So that may affect your decision, not sure.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

What acrylic/alkyd primers are you referring to? I have been using the PPG latex undercoater, and I've found that it works great on stuff I have layed down like cabinet doors, but spraying trim up it doesnt work as good as I'd like. Doesnt sand as good as I'd like either. Actually, it sands great with 150 or coarser grit, but 220-320 it doesnt work too well. I try my damndest to NOT use SW, so I haven't and will not use their product, but Im curious about any alkyd/arylic primers for in the future, if I can get some for a decent price.

Where do you get this Smart Prime for $25 a gallon?? Also, how does it sand? It says nothing about sandability in the TDS.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Woodco said:


> ...Where do you get this Smart Prime for $25 a gallon?...


probably a box store where they sell products basically at cost to undercut the local guys. my MSRP on that is $33.95.


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## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

Coco monkey is right. Lowe's carries smartprime Locally for like $23 gallon. 

I've rolled then back brushed the smartprime before. It sanded ok from what I remember but it also had days to dry before I got back to sand it so I dont know it's early sandablity.

This is for installed trim btw not that it matters too much.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Like woodcoyote, I’ve used the W&W and like it. Don’t think I’ve ever sprayed it so can’t speak to that but imagine it should be fine. It sands out great. It is recommended only for interiors.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Cali asap enamel undercoater is the bees knees if you can get it. About $40 a gallon. A mere pittance to save a good amount of labor! Dries fast, sands like a dream. If you can't get it where you are, you should move.


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## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

Pac I don't think California paint is sold in NJ. Why don't you franchise a store in the good ol dirty jerz and I'll frequent it. 





PACman said:


> Cali asap enamel undercoater is the bees knees if you can get it. About $40 a gallon. A mere pittance to save a good amount of labor! Dries fast, sands like a dream. If you can't get it where you are, you should move.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

PACman said:


> Cali asap enamel undercoater is the bees knees if you can get it. About $40 a gallon. A mere pittance to save a good amount of labor! Dries fast, sands like a dream. If you can't get it where you are, you should move.


It looks like some of the BM stores carry California paints. I'll see if they stock that stuff anywhere in Austin. $40 is pretty pricey for primer though.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

PACman said:


> Cali asap enamel undercoater is the bees knees if you can get it. About $40 a gallon. A mere pittance to save a good amount of labor! Dries fast, sands like a dream. If you can't get it where you are, you should move.


It looks like some of the BM stores carry California paints. I'll see if they stock that stuff anywhere in Austin. $40 is pretty pricey for primer though.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

sayn3ver said:


> Pac I don't think California paint is sold in NJ. Why don't you franchise a store in the good ol dirty jerz and I'll frequent it.


Hop on up to Boston. Seriously, that's not as far as i drove to see my girl every weekend when i lived in California! Through LA traffic too! And do you have any ole Muralo dealers around? California has replaced the Muralo line so they may have picked up Cali since the first of the year.


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## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

I think there is one BM dealer that stocks some California or muralo but I'd have to call around again and find the one. I originally called some time ago to see if they carried ultraplate


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## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

There's a dealer in transition about 30 minutes away from me. He doesn't stock it but has to order a minimum of a case of 4. Hate to order a case and not like it. 

His response time was impressive (he had to speak with his rep and call back) and he said his rep is great and might be able to find me a gallon or quart to demo.


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## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

Yo pac. A small hardware store carries California about 30 minutes from me. The rep threw two gallons on an order for me to try.

Whenever i get a chance to play with it I'll let you know.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

I have never used any Cali paint. How does the Cali ASAP compare to the BM 046 primer?


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## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

Couldn't resist. 

Did a quick "early sanding" test with some brushed samples. After work. 

Had the cali asap undercoat, several year old wall and wood, year old kilz max and several year old ppg quicky latex undercoat. 

I dunno how any of the above spray but for brushing I would rate them as the following on bare wood (best to worst)

Quickest to sand :
Wall wood
Kilz max
Cali asap
Ppg

Smoothest application:
Kilz max
Cali asap
Ppg latex undercoat
Wall wood

Hide and fill:
Wall wood
Ppg latex undercoat
Kilz max/Cali asap 

I'm sure if I give them all a day to dry they'd probably all sand great. 

The ppg was definitely had some pill action early on. The wall and wood is sandable for me at an incrediblly early stages (like if it's dry to the touch you can sand it). The cali asap dust didn't load the paper at all but is more difficult to sand. It powders finely but is more effort to get all the brush marks out vs the others. 

The kilz max surprised me. It went on and laid out the best. It leveled down real nice. It had a nice early sand (it sands different if that makes any sense. The initial sanding action is real easy then it gets a light glaze which still sands but not quite as effortessly).

If your prep work is good I feel the kilz max or Cali would spray out nice and may need little sanding. 

If you need fill and hide I would go wall wood or ppg undercoat. The wall and wood, which went on the thickest for me, required the most sanding overall but left the nicest base of my test pieces. 

Just some backyard quick and dirty impressions.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

The problem is, those 'several year old'; primers you have, may have been reformulated.

Also, what grits were you using? I just used a ton of PPG latex undercoater, and even over the weekend, 220 and 320 would gum up superfast, but 150 sanded great.


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## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

Sorry like I said it was just some leftovers. 

I used 150 only cause it's what I had. It was used 150 at that.

I agree reformulation could very well change my ******* testing. I haven't sprayed any of them yet. 

One may very well spray and lay nice and need little sanding. I feel wall and wood will orange peel regardless and need attention. 

Never claimed to be an authority. Just had a few minutes after work to play around. 

Having the products side by side is different than trying to compare from memory. 

I will say I don't think any of the above are bad. I will agree I think the ppg gums and pils the most. 

My beef with kilz max is it's price and it's location being home Depot.

It's price locally for me is almost $35/gallon. Trying to get it tinted is a hassle if needed. And unlike other kilz products it doesn't come in 5gallon containers that I'm aware of.


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