# Waterborne Poly



## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

I was wonder if any one had a favorite water poly. I will be doing a new construction basement in a few weeks. The stain will be old masters wiping custom to match some cabinets the owner is putting in. 

I plan on spraying (HVLP) water poly for smell and quick dry and re coat issues being in a basement. I have use a few over the years and can't say I like one more tan others...

Any opinions.

My thoughts as of now are Old Masters or BM Stays Clear. Cabot has an interior poly now and I use it for a small sample (got free qt) and it seems good.


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## GMack (Jan 18, 2008)

I've only used one water -based poly to date, made right here in Vermont. Vermont Natural Coatings. I have nothing to compare it to but I can say that it is durable and sands very nicely. I've only brushed it and, of course, it dries way too fast but that shouldn't be a problem if you're spraying. I was adding floetrol . . .


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## tsunamicontract (May 3, 2008)

I don't think that water poly holds up nearly as well as oil poly. Certainly wouldn't use them anywhere water might accidently stand (window sills, horizontals, etc)


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Give Graham Ceramathane a try. It sprays great with HVLP, dries fast. Brushes great too. Every know and then I will get a quirky batch, but it gets nice and hard. Does not need to be thinned at all to spray with HVLP (unlike Stays clear). It is a crosslinking arylic urethane. I would recommend spraying two coats over the stain and then sanding, seems to help prevent additional grain raising if you do 2 coats first and then sand it the next day and do your final coats.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

ZAR ULTRAMAX!! 

MAK - I just had the exact same situation. Had to match custom cabinets. Sapile wood (like mahogany) with dark walnut gel stain and sprayed lacquer. The ultramax was incredible. Check it out.


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## YubaPaintPro (Mar 2, 2008)

BM Stays Clear is a very good product w/ a lot of track record/performance w/ my customers. Again, we have a great product "Kel-Thane II" that isn't avail to you in your area as we are not in Chi-town. I love Chicago. Welcome Ken Griffey Jr. to the south side.

Check out our product specs.
http://www.kellymoore.com/products/groups/clearfinishes


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> ZAR ULTRAMAX!!
> 
> MAK - I just had the exact same situation. Had to match custom cabinets. Sapile wood (like mahogany) with dark walnut gel stain and sprayed lacquer. The ultramax was incredible. Check it out.


The wood I am matching to is Lyptus a wood like mahogany too. My stain mix is 3 parts Spanish oak 1 part vintage burgundy. Is the Ultamax a lacquer?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

MAK-Deco said:


> The wood I am matching to is Lyptus a wood like mahogany too. My stain mix is 3 parts Spanish oak 1 part vintage burgundy. Is the Ultamax a lacquer?


Nope. Its a waterborne oil modified poly. In other words, low odor, fast drying like a water (even has the milky white look in the can and water clean up), but the coating you end up with looks, feels and performs like an oil. Incredible. I dont know how I ever lived without this.


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## johnthepainter (Apr 1, 2008)

zar is the cats meow,,,,that stuff looks so fat when your done 

ive shot stays clear, polycrylic, old masters, and they are all nice,,,,,


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## Boyfromthenorth (Jun 18, 2008)

While I am a big fan of Zar, I would highly recommend GENERAL FINISHES Acrylic Poly. I can say its like nothing I've ever used. I've sprayed it and brushed it. It looks better brushed than Minwax or Sikkens or AquaZar does sprayed. Seriously, if you can find a place that sells it, give it a whirl. Their Satin is gorgeous.


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## painttofish (Aug 28, 2007)

Coronado has a product called Aqua Plastic Urethane that is the best water borne I have used. Graham's Ceramithane is also a good product.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

I have always heard that Coronado's was BM's Stay clear in a different can.


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## Dmax Consulting (Jul 22, 2008)

This has been informative for me too. Thanks, everyone.


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## painttofish (Aug 28, 2007)

MAK-Deco said:


> I have always heard that Coronado's was BM's Stay clear in a different can.


Hmm. Don't know.


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## Gnarlywood (May 30, 2009)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *MAK-Deco*  
_I have always heard that Coronado's was BM's Stay clear in a different can._

_Hmm. Don't know._
_Traverse City Painters_

____________________________________

You can often find out who actually made a product in the MSDS. Or find the ingredients and compare.

Gnarlywood


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

Gnarlywood said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *MAK-Deco*
> _I have always heard that Coronado's was BM's Stay clear in a different can._
> 
> ...


well if they weren't before they probably are now since Coronado is owned by BM


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## eews (Apr 18, 2007)

Last n Last Ultra Gold. unlike most water bornes which use acrylic resins, this one has an emulsified oil resin. it looks amber in the can, not white. And it when dry looks more like traditional oil poly/varnish.


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## ParagonVA (Feb 3, 2009)

I've always used Stays Clear, but it sounds like the Z-MAX might be the way to go being oil-modified.

I just realized how old this post was...MAK- did you end up using the Z-MAX?


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

yes Ultra max is what we used and I don't think I would ever use another water poly again. I think I posted a pic of the doors we did with in another thread.

it really was good stuff...


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## painttofish (Aug 28, 2007)

Where do you find Zar Ultramax or do you special order it?


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## ParagonVA (Feb 3, 2009)

MAK-Deco said:


> yes Ultra max is what we used and I don't think I would ever use another water poly again. I think I posted a pic of the doors we did with in another thread.
> 
> it really was good stuff...


cool- nice to know that. I assume there are no adhesion problems going over the oil-based stain?


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

painttofish said:


> Where do you find Zar Ultramax or do you special order it?



My BM dealer carries a full line of Zar products.


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## FL.BM.DEALER (Apr 2, 2009)

MAK-Deco said:


> I have always heard that Coronado's was BM's Stay clear in a different can.


Aqua Plastic & Stays Clear are two completeley different products. Aqua Plastic can not be used on floors, Stays Clear can. Aqua Plastic Doesnt milk out on you nearly as easy, Stays clear almost a 50-50 chance(in our climate).


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

My fav has to be Sikkens BL Clear.....definitely. ( Brushwork ) If I had to spray one...... Graham Ceramithane ( I dont like spraying waterbornes, but this one is probably the most forgiving )


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## deluxe (Nov 30, 2008)

if you are using HVLP why not spray waterborne lacquer?
M.L. Campbell makes great pre-cat so you don't have to worry about mixing and measuring.It dries way faster than any poly and sands easier you can use it for sealer and topcoat.
good luck


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

I am not a big fan of wb poly either. Only real benifit I know of is dry time to recoat quickly.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

For waterborne poly, the reduced ambering (depending on product), better flexibility (than lacquers and varnishes) are some of the advantages. Low VOC is also a good thing for us. No build limits like precatalyzed lacquer or conversion varnish is also good.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

DeanV said:


> For waterborne poly, the reduced ambering (depending on product), better flexibility (than lacquers and varnishes) are some of the advantages. Low VOC is also a good thing for us. No build limits like precatalyzed lacquer or conversion varnish is also good.


Yeah I knew I should of added low VOC. Some good points. 
I know of a guy that does his stair treads with WB poly the kind meant for floors. The stuff wears quickly. 

I have used it in times when i wanted to recoat quickly or wanted less odor but it is not the same to me.


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## Mantis (Aug 4, 2008)

For what it's worth, I was recently conned into trying Sherwin's Wood Classic's Waterborne Poly (at high $30something/gallon). Please head my advice and stay away! Sprays up for crap, does not dry evenly at all when spraying. It's virtually impossible to get any kind of build with this stuff. We recently did a basement with stained oak trim and after 3 coats (2 spray and 1 brush) of this stuff, it still felt like first coat. Ended up cutting my losses and re-sanding then brushing a coat of ceramathane. 

If your Sherwin rep tries to get you to demo this stuff, punch him in the mouth.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

The Sherwin Williams store I go to pushes the ChemAqua for a WB clear. Never tried it though. I have been trying a bunch of Target Coatings lately. Expensive though.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

ChemAqua isnt cheap either. A few years ago I went through 200+ gals. of the stuff doing cabinets / headboards and misc. items for a hospital. Had to fiddle with butyl, denatured alcohol, and distilled water to get it to spray right.

I've tried just about all the water-based poly's and most have their good points as well as their bad. The one I've found that works very well is a floor product made by Varathane. High build, sands nicely, and an even finish. FYI; if you use a higher gloss for your first couple of coats, the satin coats will come out nice and even. Believe it or not, that advice came from Norm @ New Yankee Workshop. Sonuvagun was right again......


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## summertime14 (May 4, 2009)

Absolutely cannot beat Parlay. My Sherwin Williams rep gave me a gallon of the ZAR because he thought it was the same. Good stuff, but not the same. I used to by it from a local cabinet finish supplier but now get it online from the Green Depot. They call it Parlay Floor 21. Technically a really durable waterborne floor poly. Brushes out very nice. No brush marks. You can spray it if you want. I use it to refinish front doors too. Won't peel, crack, or fade.


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## eews (Apr 18, 2007)

st14:
Does the parlay have UV blockers in it?
Thanks.


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## summertime14 (May 4, 2009)

Yes, it has UV absordors. I usually can put three coats on in one day. I brush on two coats, and lightly sand before the third coat. Does not fuzz up or raise the grain on the first coats.


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