# White kitchen island: paint that is not breakthrough



## sayn3ver

I like breakthrough. However for this application it's base is a smidge too off white for the color match. 

I'm afraid an eat-in/eat-on island sprayed will cabinet coat will be marred up in no time. 

Suggestions?

Spraying it. A satin or eggshell would work. Afraid a waterborne alkyd will yellow against the factory white finished cabs surrounding it.


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## Rbriggs82

California Ultraplate if you have access to it. Inslx cabinet coat isn't all that bad, and Sherwin Williams Pro Industrial Multi Surface Acrylic is a pretty solid choice. 

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## sayn3ver

Thanks. Cabinet coat looks nice sprayed but i find it scuffs easy. Thinking the clinets and their kids on stools will leave that face jacked up in no time. Although any white pigmented finish is going to be challenged. 

I may be able to get ultraplate. Old threads on here indicate it's more of a semi than satin. 

I wanted to try rust scat but that's a gloss/semi only. 

I know the SW proclassic waterborne alkyd is an acrylic hybrid that claims non yellowing. I don't trust their claims nor have used it personally.

How's the watebased satin impervo. Never used that?
Or should i try pro industrial multisurface acrylic?


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## Brushman4

IMHO, a semi-gloss would be preferred over an eggshell or satin. I did the cabinets in my home which were previously stained and varnished with a dark stain.

After asking for a good product and meticulously sanding, prepping and priming, it was suggested that my finish coat should be either PPG Breakthrough or Cali Ultraplate neither of which, if this can be believed is available in the Chicago area!

So I went with SW Pro Industrial Enamel Eg-Shel, which was recommended by many here on PT. Over one year later, for the most part, they are holding up fine. But I still think a semi will clean up and last longer than an Eggshell.


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## sayn3ver

I don't know what the factory angular sheen is on the rest of the kitchen. I'd say it's less than satin but more than matte. They want it to be close. Semi definitely is out. 

And I'm not planning on taking a glossier product and rubbing it down. Hahaha. 

I really wanted to take this opportunity to try something new as it's a less than a gallon situation. You know. To expand my horizons.


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## RH

Brushman4 said:


> IMHO, a semi-gloss would be preferred over an eggshell or satin. I did the cabinets in my home which were previously stained and varnished with a dark stain.
> 
> After asking for a good product and meticulously sanding, prepping and priming, it was suggested that my finish coat should be either PPG Breakthrough or Cali Ultraplate neither of which, if this can be believed is available in the Chicago area!
> 
> So I went with SW Pro Industrial Enamel Eg-Shel, which was recommended by many here on PT. Over one year later, for the most part, they are holding up fine. But I still think a semi will clean up and last longer than an Eggshell.


I like The Pro Industrial Multi Surface and KM’s Dura Poxi when spraying. For brush and roller situations, Pro-Classic lays down well though I know many feel it isn’t hard enough for some surfaces.


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## cocomonkeynuts

I have been thinking to my self about this but can anyone tell me why scuff-x wouldn't be good choice for something like this? I have seen people use it for doors, but why not trim and cabinets too?


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## PACman

Ultraplate. Game-set-match.


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## cocomonkeynuts

PACman said:


> Ultraplate. Game-set-match.


Being ultraplate is an urethane arcrylic does it mar like breakthrough and CC? Does it tint on UTC or the trillion colorants? I was told CC is UTC only due to the urethane?


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## Rbriggs82

If you don't have access to California I'd go with the Sherwin Multi Surface Acrylic which comes in eggshell and isn't overly shiny.

Proclassic WB in satin might be fine but I hate the feel of it. Feels dry to me, almost like a flat but with a shine. I know they claim the hybrid is non yellowing but I wouldn't trust it either. 

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## PACman

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Being ultraplate is an urethane arcrylic does it mar like breakthrough and CC? Does it tint on UTC or the trillion colorants? I was told CC is UTC only due to the urethane?


No it doesn't mar. And anyone who says CC will mar isn't comparing it to......anything. Even most alkyds mar worse than ultraplate does. people say all kinds of crap to avoid trying something. It's amazing some of the stuff they come up with.


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## sayn3ver

Pac, 

I've used cabinet coat before. Both through the hvlp and airless/aaa. Cabinet coat most certainly is tough. However while it doesn't scratch easy per say, it most certainly can have the sheen affected with something like a finger nail scratch. 

I find it easier to spray that low voc breakthrough. It flows nice. It actually almost looks good when it wets out which isn't necessarily the case for waterborne coatings.

Anyways. I went to get some SW msa today. The whitest base isn't white enough to match once again....which was my issue with breakthrough for this project. 

The sw reflective base would be white enough and require a tint down to match. However the products and Sheen's available in that base didn't fit my needs. 

The California dealer within reasonable distance doesn't carry much of their line. He didn't have any ultraplate and I needed to order 4 gallons minmum. 

Guess what? I went with cabinet coat. 
Maybe I can get them on a yearly respray service plan.


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## canopainting

Who sells CP Ultrapate in northern CA? Their web sight lists KM but they only carry the exterior stain line.


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## Center_line_Painting

Just throwing in a doozy question here, why not scuff-x? MSA has been a go to of mine lately for high traffic spots..or families with slobbery pets, etc.

Also, any thoughts of a clear coat? I've used Ben stays clear low lustre over pro classic in a similar scenario. Albeit mine was grey not white.


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## Mr Smith

I just got a request for a Kitchen cabinet quote and I can't think of a coating to use for the job. The homeowner wants white cabs and I will no longer use BM Advance because it yellows.

Cabinet coat sprays nice when laying them flat but it's too thin to spray the boxes. It runs like hell. You can't roll the stuff without getting a stipple. 

When reading the Repaint Florida thread on Breakthrough I thought we finally had a winner...but no, apparently the low VOC version sucks. I can't get the semi-gloss in my Canadian city either. They only stock satin and everyone wants S.Gloss.

Lacquer is out, Waterborne lacquer is finicky as hell. So that's out.

I have a hard time believing that Scuff-X is tough enough for cabinets. Adding the BM stays clear gives it a plastic appearance.

That California brand is not stocked in my city, although if it's polyurethane based like CC it probably doesn't roll well either.

The only other thing I can think of is SW Multi surface Enamel. I've never used it and don't want to experiment on a customer's cabinets unless I have 100% certainty that it will look great and take a beating.


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## PNW Painter

You guys should really be looking for and becoming familiar with products that are KCMA approved. 

Ben Moore has some Waterbased Lenmar products. 

Sherwin Williams Product Finishes has Kem Aqua Plus and HydroPlus.

Target Coatings has several different products. 

There are others, but those are probably some of the most readily available.


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## sayn3ver

No argument there. 

I want to try the sayerlack hydro that sw now has but it's 5 gallons only or so I was told. 

I'll have to revisit kem aqua plus.

I'd like to try general finishes pigmented poly but I don't think it's kcma rated. I heard it sprays nice though. 

My issue with most of the kcma products is lead time or availability. They have lead times in obtaining and tinting of them. Take sayerlack and kem aqua plus. These are only done at an SW oem coatings locations. I'm in southern NJ. Closest location is out in PA. The store typically has long lead times for tinting and I don't know how they color match if needed. 

All that to often get a product that is finicky to apply outside of a controlled shop and their tech line wants nothing to do with you since you are not an oem and field spraying outside a controlled enviormental. 

Honestly on the other side I called insul-x once about cabinet coat and the guy tried dodging any spray related questions as they simply didn't want to be liable for what was said. 

They want to sell products but take no responsibility. It's always the applicator's fault. You call for clarification and they don't want to be specific.


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## cocomonkeynuts

sayn3ver said:


> No argument there.
> 
> I want to try the sayerlack hydro that sw now has but it's 5 gallons only or so I was told.
> 
> I'll have to revisit kem aqua plus.
> 
> I'd like to try general finishes pigmented poly but I don't think it's kcma rated. I heard it sprays nice though.
> 
> My issue with most of the kcma products is lead time or availability. They have lead times in obtaining and tinting of them. Take sayerlack and kem aqua plus. These are only done at an SW oem coatings locations. I'm in southern NJ. Closest location is out in PA. The store *typically has long lead times for tinting and I don't know how they color match if needed. *
> 
> All that to often get a product that is finicky to apply outside of a controlled shop and their tech line wants nothing to do with you since you are not an oem and field spraying outside a controlled enviormental.
> 
> Honestly on the other side I *called insul-x once* about cabinet coat and the guy tried dodging any spray related questions as they simply didn't want to be liable for what was said.
> 
> They want to sell products but take no responsibility. It's always the applicator's fault. You call for clarification and they don't want to be specific.


Because they take industrial colorants that most stores don't have. Matching colors done by eye very slowly, lacquers tint very fast.

BM's generic hotline is pretty useless most of the time. Call into the HP coatings department next time


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## PNW Painter

My local SW Product Finishes will pour off Kem Aqua Plus and HydoPlus into singles. Custom matches take about 3-5 days. If you know this going into a project it shouldn’t be a big deal and you plan around it.

It can be a hassle procuring these products if you don’t have a Product Finishes store near you. Talk to your normal SW Rep and see if they can help help coordinate everything for you. 


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## Tprice2193

A couple of points 1) KCMA certification, to my knowledge, does not apply to refinish work. It does give us some assurance of the durability of the finish, but we are on our own when we use these products for refinishes. 2) GF White poly is not KCMA certified however I have good results with it. As good a KA+ in my opinion 3) Sayerlac hydroplus pigmented according to my SW product finishes store had to be reformulated due to its 6 month shelf life. They are directing it toward OEM's exclusively. They thought I was a damn fool to want to use it for refinish work. Has anyone used the waterboure Lenmar pigmented lacquer?


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## sayn3ver

I knew the sayerlack hydro had a short shelf life (tds said 12 months unopened I believe). 

My local bm store says they can get the lenmar products easily. However the TDS on their waterborne lacquer doesn't mention tinting at all or maybe I glanced over it too fast. It also doesn't mention kcma rating. So if it's not tintable and not kcma rated is it worth trying? 

And correct, kcma rating is more important to an oem than to a refinisher. However it was brought up that maybe I should be looking more towards kcma products due to durability.

I would love to find a tougher waterborne coating that's sprays well in a variety of conditions and has a tough, factory like finish in sheens I can use (hand rubbed, satin and semi please).

Without the kcma or some other hardness/durability rating, it's also personal opinion no?

My next opportunity I will be trying SW msa. If it's like the old breakthrough I'm sure I'll get along just fine with it. The eggshell looks like it'll be just right on some cabinets. 

I may order a gallon of the general finishes white Enduro poly but it seems that the white Enduro is their thickest product and may not be hvlp friendly. Not the end of the world as I can always load the airless/aaa but id like to find a pigmented top coat that will work with it. Haha.


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## Tprice2193

@sayn3ver - Thanks for the information. The enduro white poly is very HPLV friendly straight from can. I have done a number of jobs with it over BIN. I use Graco #3 tip on low setting. I SPRAY vertical x 2 coats, block sand it with 400 wet. Spray fronts horizontal on table. Can get a thicker coat to float out. Too thick and you will get some bubbles, just pop them. I have tried thinning with water and the bubbles seemed worse. When spraying vertical watch for runs occuring 2 to 3 minutes. I just lightly back brush it. Turn Hvlp fan to round and you can pinpoint hit corners and detail. You will probably have to turn air and material flow down. I have Graco 4900 4 stage with new gun Edge II Plus which squeeze feeds material vs siphon. Can spray in any orientation. You can tint white poly but have never done that. It is not KCMA but I have found it to be a pretty tuff finish. I use semi gloss. It will mark readily with metal tools during installation but this easily comes off with eraser. I would encourage you to try a gallon. I like it better than KA+ but more expensive. I order mine off Amazon. Generalfinishes has some killer products but sparse distribution network.


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## Center_line_Painting

Just an Fyi for @Mr Smith my suggestion/question was only relating to an island not for cabinetry. I am curious about coatings that will both reduce scuffing and look good in the island scenario. 
I've had several customers request coatings for that particular concern. With the job I did with low lustre stays clear, pasticy wasn't an issue in that particular lighting. I haven't tried scuff x in any higher sheens- only walls on commercial gigs. Matte turns out well. 

Also @sayn3ver the msa is a bit thicker than breakthrough. idk if you've seen the finish yet, but it always looks a tad dull to me. The semi seems more like an eggshell. i haven't checked it for scuff resistance. I know where you coming from with product availability. I'm down in Cape may. SNJ is wonderfully underdeveloped but there are drawbacks.


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## Joshua1304

Sherwin Williams Pro Industrial Waterbased Acrylic Alkyd Urethane Enamel - Semi-Gloss. 5H Hardness is always a bonus

https://protective.sherwin-williams.com/detail.jsp?A=sku-4213156:product-1522160

We should really work on shortening the names of our products..


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## Mr Smith

Joshua1304 said:


> Sherwin Williams Pro Industrial Waterbased Acrylic Alkyd Urethane Enamel - Semi-Gloss. 5H Hardness is always a bonus
> 
> https://protective.sherwin-williams.com/detail.jsp?A=sku-4213156:product-1522160
> 
> We should really work on shortening the names of our products..


Is the turnarond faster with this product than with BM Advance? I love using BM Advance but it takes forever to cure, hence the blocking issues.


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## Tprice2193

@Mr Smith - the pro industrial waterbourne alkyd urethane enamel will not improve your turnaround time vs Advanced. It will probably make it worse. Sherwin Williams other product in this category Emerald Trim may offer some modest improvements. I don't use Advanced for this same reason extended turnaround time. I did a few cabinet doors and shelves with Emerald trim and it offers some promise, however I have not used it enough to say its better than Advanced with regard to turnaround. Maybe worth a test on your part.


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