# Spray finish on walls?



## SterlingPainting (Jan 3, 2010)

Hey just wondering if anyone is actually able to just leave a "spray finish" on walls without actually backrolling for a super fine finish. has anyone ever done this without leaving spray marks on the edge of the sprayfan??


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

Let me just ask you a quick question. Have you sprayed and backrolled ever? What was the result of this?

Don't take me as harsh, just a real question answer.. you will get what I am saying.


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## spraymonster (Dec 25, 2009)

harsh


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## SterlingPainting (Jan 3, 2010)

nEighter said:


> Let me just ask you a quick question. Have you sprayed and backrolled ever? What was the result of this?
> 
> Don't take me as harsh, just a real question answer.. you will get what I am saying.



I get you..obviously I've done this, but of course you get a patina from the nap on the roller..and you cant really use a 10 mil without getting roller marks on walls..or at least its very difficult.. so i think my question is still valid?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

If you dont backroll, the finish is cloudy and uneven. In my opinion, and we are spraying alot these days, backrolling is as much a part of the art of drywall spraying as spraying is. Two guys working together with a good rythm and tempo is best. Music to my ears.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Never used it but SW's "Cashmere" line is made to reduce the problem. It is supposed to flow out smooth after rolling. ( not claiming a spray finish) You may be able to extend a paints open time (which will allow more time for self-leveling) by using some of the extenders on the market. 

Do they work? Never really tried. Think I would work hard on managing customers expectations first. If you do find a solution, please share.


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

If you don't backroll after spraying walls your paint will be peeling off the walls in no time. Backrolling isn't just for the even finished look, it's to set the paint into the substrate. Imagine spraying over a particularly dusty section of drywall - the paint just sits on top of the dust and doesn't get into the board, so if you were to stick a piece of tape on it a week or so later, and pull it off, it's going to take a strip of paint with it.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

I've seen a few jobs where there was no back roll. NC ceilings hardly ever get a roll, they typically get "fogged", some are so bad that from up close you can see the tape joints. Some closets in NC dot get rolled, hell, sometimes they're just primed, or finished with no prime. So yes it can be done, but why would you? There is no possible way to ever touch it up if need be.


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## Roadog (Apr 18, 2007)

I gotta disagree here.....and spraying isnt my thing but, I live in a 5000 sq. ft house that when we rebuilt it 5 years ago I sprayed the complete inside Without back rolling. Paint is still on the walls, and still looks great.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Roadog said:


> I gotta disagree here.....and spraying isnt my thing but, I live in a 5000 sq. ft house that when we rebuilt it 5 years ago I sprayed the complete inside Without back rolling. Paint is still on the walls, and still looks great.


I did a decorative finish in my office that I think looks great  wanna see? Just kidding...it can be done, but as a matter of propriety its not a good idea to take the chance on a paid job.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

I have never see paint absorb into sheetrock or plaster by backrolling or anything else more than any other method. That might be the craziest thing I've read here in the last day.

Do you guys back roll your trim? Doors? Metals? 

Anything can be sprayed for a perfect finish - as well as GWB.

Spraying walls depend on several factors. The right tip, the right temp, the right humidity, the right flow of paint, the right pressure, the sheen and of course the operator. The biggest issue with spraying walls is that they are very difficult to touch up and it will show every imperfection in the wall. 

SW Cashmere paint is suppose to have a very rich creamy finish. Im not sure I would trust spraying it on walls with no back roll. It is very thick and would have to be cut down. I bet the new formula for interior Duration would spray great. Very thin and has great coverage.


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## Roadog (Apr 18, 2007)

Hey VP, good to see ya back. Yea, I dont do spray finishes in my co. but I do understand the reasons of back rolling and agree that on a paid job I would back roll. Saying that, I just got home from Maine yesterday from a meeting with an architect interested in some work by me and visited a builder friend. They were doing a renovation of a house, all walls and ceilings were finished pine that was sprayed white, No back roll and it looked great. Like one big piece of trim. Not to compare to dry wall but if someone backrolled it, it would look like krap. But then the wood would fall under NEPS trim comment.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I back roll to keep the drywall from fuzzing up and creating more sanding. The stipple also helps hide seams somewhat and makes for better touch-up in the future. I have never sprayed the finish coat on drywall, since most of my homes have 8 colors on the walls typically. I would think backrolling finish would still be a good idea.

I do not know the cause of this, but occasionally on a repaint job I run into situations where the original primer coat on the drywall seems to just sit on top of the drywall mud at the seams and mud areas. Is it because they did not backroll and there was too much dust on the drywall when the sprayed it? Hard to say, but that is my best guess.


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

NEPS.US said:


> *I have never see paint absorb into sheetrock or plaster by backrolling or anything else more than any other method. That might be the craziest thing I've read here in the last day.
> 
> Do you guys back roll your trim? Doors? Metals? *
> 
> ...


I thought somebody might say something about that... 

I don't know about you, but I don't use wall paints on trim. I *especially* don't use wall paints on metal. Trim is where most of the bangs and scuffs take place, so tougher paint is required there. Plus, you don't spray trim with a 517. And trimwork is wiped clean or vacuumed before you spray. 

When you're blasting on wall paint, you want it on fairly heavy - not backrolling it will (most likely) result in runs or sags, thin spots, spits, tails, plus as I said earlier you're far more likely to spray over a dusty section of wall where your paint won't adhere properly.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

SterlingPainting said:


> Hey just wondering if anyone is actually able to just leave a "spray finish" on walls without actually backrolling for a super fine finish. has anyone ever done this without leaving spray marks on the edge of the sprayfan??


I have sprayed PPG Aqua-Pon on previously painted walls that had oil base semi- gloss. I did not back roll because the gloss finish would have been compromised.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Rcon said:


> I thought somebody might say something about that...
> 
> I don't know about you, but I don't use wall paints on trim. I *especially* don't use wall paints on metal. Trim is where most of the bangs and scuffs take place, so tougher paint is required there. Plus, you don't spray trim with a 517. And trimwork is wiped clean or vacuumed before you spray.
> 
> When you're blasting on wall paint, you want it on fairly heavy - not backrolling it will (most likely) result in runs or sags, thin spots, spits, tails, plus as I said earlier you're far more likely to spray over a dusty section of wall where your paint won't adhere properly.


 
I agree anout spraying over a dusty area and getting poor adhesion.

A tougher paint? Please explain. Paint's with any type of sheen are more difficult to spray with. Flat wall paints dry faster, level out faster and flash less. A experienced operator should be able to spray any substrate and with any paint with out back brushing and or back rolling. 

That being said I wouldnt spray walls or ceilings without back rolling. Back rolling hides defects in the walls and ceilngs plus it gives a texture that makes touching up much easier. The operator can move much faster with their spray patterns and there isnt much science to tuning the machine or the paints. Blow it on a roll out the mistakes. There isnt much technique and skill with this method and unfortunately many learn how to spray this way first and become labeled blow and go sprayers. There is much more to spraying than just delivering the product to the substrate as fast as possible.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> I agree anout spraying over a dusty area and getting poor adhesion.
> 
> A tougher paint? Please explain. Paint's with any type of sheen are more difficult to spray with. Flat wall paints dry faster, level out faster and flash less. A experienced operator should be able to spray any substrate and with any paint with out back brushing and or back rolling.
> 
> That being said I wouldnt spray walls or ceilings without back rolling. Back rolling hides defects in the walls and ceilngs plus it gives a texture that makes touching up much easier. The operator can move much faster with their spray patterns and there isnt much science to tuning the machine or the paints. Blow it on a roll out the mistakes. There isnt much technique and skill with this method and unfortunately many learn how to spray this way first and become labeled blow and go sprayers. There is much more to spraying than just delivering the product to the substrate as fast as possible.


Good point with the ability to touch up with a roller.


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## SterlingPainting (Jan 3, 2010)

great points all around! suppose you backrolled your drywall primer (because primer's easier to sand) and then just sprayed your finish coats? I dont think youd have an adhesion problem, because you sand and dust off before spraying, much like autobody. I want to try this one day on an interior just to see how fine I can get the patina. I'm thinking of using a low-lustre paint with some extra leveler and flotrol thrown in, maybe using one of those fine finish tips.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

SterlingPainting said:


> great points all around! suppose you backrolled your drywall primer (because primer's easier to sand) and then just sprayed your finish coats? I dont think youd have an adhesion problem, because you sand and dust off before spraying, much like autobody. I want to try this one day on an interior just to see how fine I can get the patina. I'm thinking of using a low-lustre paint with some extra leveler and flotrol thrown in, maybe using one of those fine finish tips.


Touch up will be a burden and the walls that need a decent amount of touch up where it is eye catching will more than likely have to be repainted with a roller.


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

SterlingPainting said:


> great points all around! suppose you backrolled your drywall primer (because primer's easier to sand) and then just sprayed your finish coats? I dont think youd have an adhesion problem, because you sand and dust off before spraying, much like autobody. I want to try this one day on an interior just to see how fine I can get the patina. I'm thinking of using a low-lustre paint with some extra leveler and flotrol thrown in, maybe using one of those fine finish tips.


You won't get an even looking finish without backrolling. There's just no way around that. Now, I will spray a closet without backrolling (after i've spray primed/backrolled it), but walls are another matter. 

Spraying is easy. Getting an even spray pattern with no overlap/tails/spits/runs/sags/etc marks without backrolling - that's hard.

Just try that in a room with a great big window. Good luck.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Rcon said:


> You won't get an even looking finish without backrolling. There's just no way around that. Now, I will spray a closet without backrolling (after i've spray primed/backrolled it), but walls are another matter.
> 
> Spraying is easy. Getting an even spray pattern with no overlap/tails/spits/runs/sags/etc marks without backrolling - that's hard.
> 
> Just try that in a room with a great big window. Good luck.


 
Rcon - Your just not understanding. It CAN be done and very easily. I'm not sure how many hours you have behind the gun or your level of spraying but it can be done. 

Spraying is easy if you are blowing it on and backrolling. The "art" of spraying multiple substrates properly is not hard either but is takes time and repitition to learn. 

If your getting tails, runs, sags or spits it might be time to clean your equipment, cut the paint or check your pressure. Or it could be lack of experience with a gun in your hand. Either was all can be fine tuned to give the results desired.


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

NEPS.US said:


> Rcon - Your just not understanding. It CAN be done and very easily. I'm not sure how many hours you have behind the gun or your level of spraying but it can be done.
> 
> Spraying is easy if you are blowing it on and backrolling. The "art" of spraying multiple substrates properly is not hard either but is takes time and repitition to learn.
> 
> If your getting tails, runs, sags or spits it might be time to clean your equipment, cut the paint or check your pressure. Or it could be lack of experience with a gun in your hand. Either was all can be fine tuned to give the results desired.


I've got 5 sprayers, ranging from HVLP to airless to AAA, and been using them for 10 years. Lack of experience doesn't factor into this equasion. 
In any case, I find that I never get the results i'm after by spraying only when it comes to walls. Closets maybe, but not main walls.


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

Obviously the primer coat has to be backrolled, unless you like all kinds of scuffed sheetrock hairs, and balled up sheetrock dust protruding out of the finish.

Subsequent coats can be sprayed, it just depends. It really depends on whether or not you want to be able to touch up the area, if so you need roller stipple in the surface so that when you touch up you can use a roller to match it.

Sheen is also a variable in the equation.

Often if touching up capability is required, I will spray/backroll the primer, spray the 1st coat for coverage, and spray/backroll the 2nd coat for uniform stipple everywhere.

But a wall can be sprayed without leaving spray marks, just spray it like you would spray a large cabinet, or waincsoting etc.

Inidentally, even if a wall could be sprayed without any backrolling even on the primer coat, I think smooth walls look cheap and chintzy without any stipple on them.

Stipple adds texture that helps to break up the light ( we are talking smoothwall on this thread I assume ), and stipple hides any variations and joints in the wallboard.

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This is why any paint that is diesigned to change it's shape AFTER you are done rolling is f-ing retarded.

*Manufacturers:*

I rolled the surface EXACTLY HOW I WANT IT TO BE. I don't want it to do something automatically after I am done rolling it.

I hate that crap.
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Also, I think I understand what you mean by leaving marks. Spraying a wall with a large tip does present certain types of uniformity issues that dont occur when you are spraying trim.

It actually does require a different technique that takes two extra variables into consideration that normally is not an issue with other types of spraying.

I know what they are.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

I should probably add that we dont get a lot of tape and mud walls here (except for commercial). I only deal with plaster walls on NC and that is a different animal.


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## jason123 (Jul 2, 2009)

My "HUMBLE" opinion is that you cant beat a spray finish....
Some old timer said it best you dont see them rolling or brushing paint on cars... You cant beat a spray finish. As I said "HUMBLE" opinion


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

Last Craftsman said:


> Obviously the primer coat has to be backrolled, unless you like all kinds of scuffed sheetrock hairs, and balled up sheetrock dust protruding out of the finish.
> 
> Subsequent coats can be sprayed, it just depends. It really depends on whether or not you want to be able to touch up the area, if so you need roller stipple in the surface so that when you touch up you can use a roller to match it.
> 
> ...


I understand what both you and NEPS are saying about spraying without leaving marks - sure, it can be done...but I rarely do 8' walls, usually 10's or 12's and they're really damn hard to spray evenly in one continuous pattern without breaks or overlaps. That's why I say what I say. Stopping halfway through a wall and then retriggering the gun often results in little spits which will flash on an eggshell wall which is smooth. Using an extension to reach from top to bottom of walls that high result in more paint (thinner fan) in the middle of the wall with less paint (wider fan) up higher - it's hard to get consistency (on drywall) without backrolling. That's all i'm saying... :whistling2:


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

Rcon said:


> Using an extension to reach from top to bottom of walls that high result in more paint (thinner fan) in the middle of the wall with less paint (wider fan) up higher -


Just keep the spray tip the same distance from the walls no matter where you are in the spray pattern.

:brows:



Rcon said:


> it's hard to get consistency (on drywall) without backrolling. That's all i'm saying... :whistling2:


Well, trust me. You wont often hear me arguing against backrolling. 

But if the question is can a wall be sprayed uniformly without leaving any weird patterns in the wall, the answer is most definitely yes.


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## Woody (Jan 7, 2010)

I just hate drama, or thinking to much.... spray & roll keeps the complaints down, and working like Mikel Angelo.

Equipment ,and painter must be 100%...for spray finish to work.
An easy touch day, is well worth it !


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## jason123 (Jul 2, 2009)

Couldn't u touch up a small area with a sponge roller ???


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## xr4ticrew (Nov 24, 2007)

If you guys are spraying walls, what kind of ceilings are you dealing with? We usually have popcorn stipple or knockdown here, (Calgary Alberta) which means if you were gonna spray walls, you'd have to either tape off ceilings, or sheild them. To me, each method would pretty much negate the time savings of spraying vs just cutting and rolling..

Now if the ceilings are flat, they're almost always a different color or finish from the walls, which means you have to cut anyways..

Just curious, I've heard a lot about people spraying walls, even if just primer, but I never really saw the benefit if the ceilings are finished...


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## loser (Jun 12, 2008)

*backrolling*

I asked that same question a few months ago about backrolling and i agree with Roadog 100% on the paint adhering good and looking good. Any painter who does"nt know that a roller or brush touch up on a sprayed finish will stand out must be just starting apprenticeship. We started a new 120,000 sq. ft. retirement residence in Oct. 2009. Still there. 5 painters. Our procedure is, make sure drywall and area is clean, 1 man spray all drywall areas and 1 man backroll with latex primer. Sand all primed ceilings and walls thoroughly, caulk all frames at wall. Then spray first finish coat eggshell latex with 1 man backrolling and keeping finish color off ceiling as much as possible. Then spray 1 finish coat on ceiling with a GOOD backroller and the ceilings look great and r done. Then we cut our wall color in at the ceiling. Then clean frames up and spray one finish coat on frames. With a person who knows how to spray, the frames can look great in 1 coat. Then cut our wall color to our door frames. Last coat on walls done with brush and roller. All doors and frames and jams sprayed 1 finish coat. Touch ups on those done with brush. The conclusion i have come to is that, if u have someone who can spray properly you can save lots of man hours as i have sprayed ceilings and not backrolled and they look great and i also sprayed the first finish coat on the walls with no backroll and as of yet, 3 months later everything is sticking well.


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