# Kilz "Premium"



## Macsimus (Jun 24, 2008)

I was hired by a gc to do a one day "touch up" round on house that was about to go on the market. The biggest thing was a water stain on the kitchen ceiling. I showed up and started setting up and he ran to the paint store to get me what I needed. I told him a gallon of Kilz for the stain and a few other things. He came back dropped the box off and took off. When I finally got to the stain killing, I saw he had gotten me Kilz Premium (a latex). He later told me that is what they gave him (at C and T Paint in Wellselsy, MA) when he asked for Kilz. I immediately had reservations because I know that latexes do not block stains. But, since the stain was very mild and I thought that the latex technology was improving it might work. Wrong. Because I was skeptical already, I applied 2 coats of the primer, with at least 1 hour of dry time between (per the can directions). Waited at least another hour for the second coat to dry and then rolled a sample finish coat on to see if it would work. Nope. Of course it bled through. I had a nearly empty gallon of Bin coverstain in the van so I scraped the bottom of the can to cover the bleed through and all ended well, just a PITA. Sorry for the long winded post but I just thought I would remind you all latexes do not block stains!


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Yeah, they block stains after about 3 to 4 coats. Thats why I carry a couple of fans to jobs. Oil is still better, but you have the oil fumes, and cleanup.they do make better products than Kilz.


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## Joepro0000 (Jul 27, 2009)

Like John said, they do block stains (Kilz Latex) but it will need 3-4 coats. I have done this over 20 times last year, doing repairs in foreclosed homes for banks, and it worked. Most of time its better to cut out the drywall and re-install.


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

I carry a qt of bin and a small stiff 1" in a sport bottle with a dash of Denatured to keep it wet, and works for stuff like that in a flash and ready to paint in 15 min.


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## slickshift (Apr 8, 2007)

Ayup, I've never met a latex "stain sealer" that actually blocked a water stain


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## BC_Painter (Feb 14, 2010)

Don't forget the old builder standby, I've seen more than one builder that sprayed bleach to get rid of a water stain! Apparently it looked perfect!

These jobs I always had to fix the watermark because it had come back by the time they hired me to paint their home so I fixed it right 

Kilz or Coverstain for me


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## slickshift (Apr 8, 2007)

BC_Painter said:


> ...I've seen more than one builder that sprayed bleach to get rid of a water stain! Apparently it looked perfect!


The Builder's (or Painter's) Taillight Warranty:
It'll look good, at least as long as you can see my taillights


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## BC_Painter (Feb 14, 2010)

slickshift said:


> The Builder's (or Painter's) Taillight Warranty:
> It'll look good, at least as long as you can see my taillights


Well Put :thumbsup:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Macsimus said:


> I was hired by a gc to do a one day "touch up" round on house that was about to go on the market. The biggest thing was a water stain on the kitchen ceiling. I showed up and started setting up and he ran to the paint store to get me what I needed. I told him a gallon of Kilz for the stain and a few other things. He came back dropped the box off and took off. When I finally got to the stain killing, I saw he had gotten me Kilz Premium (a latex). He later told me that is what they gave him (at C and T Paint in Wellselsy, MA) when he asked for Kilz. I immediately had reservations because I know that latexes do not block stains. But, since the stain was very mild and I thought that the latex technology was improving it might work. Wrong. Because I was skeptical already, I applied 2 coats of the primer, with at least 1 hour of dry time between (per the can directions). Waited at least another hour for the second coat to dry and then rolled a sample finish coat on to see if it would work. Nope. Of course it bled through. I had a nearly empty gallon of Bin coverstain in the van so I scraped the bottom of the can to cover the bleed through and all ended well, just a PITA. Sorry for the long winded post but I just thought I would remind you all latexes do not block stains!


Macsimus,

As much as I love C&T, I do disagree with what they (supposedly) recommended. I say "supposedly" because they been in business long enough to realize that each brand of "stain sealer" is good for a narrow range of stains. Kilz original, B.I.N., KILZ II, Cover Stain, etc etc etc all are excellent for blocking a stain specific to their own formulation. You don't ask a water borne to seal a water induced stain - that's just crazy talk. You don't ask an alcohol based blocker(BIN) to seal Magic Marker. and so on.

An experienced painter MUST know which product will seal which stain. Sheeet, we all been in business long enough to know our experience trumps all manufacturers' claims. That's why we get PAID ! Do NOT allow some asshat to pick up product. Go to the store and specify what you want. 

OH, and PLEASE give C&T as much business as you can. They deserve to stay in business.


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

slickshift said:


> Ayup, I've never met a latex "stain sealer" that actually blocked a water stain


Apparently the new Zinsser Smart Prime can block water stains. Haven't used it yet myself though.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Rcon said:


> Apparently the new Zinsser Smart Prime can block water stains. Haven't used it yet myself though.


As with all manufacturer claims, I am just a wee bit skeptical. This is why I test products on areas where it don't matter - my own home.

IMO, Zinsser makes EXCELLENT Shellac based products. Other than that, well, I don't seek them out. And some I will avoid like the Shieldz . . . . ah, I mean..... like the PLAGUE.

They are spending lots of promotional money getting Smart Prime in our heads. I wonder why with their 1-2-3 do they find it necessary to formulate another waterborne primer ???????


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

daArch said:


> As with all manufacturer claims, I am just a wee bit skeptical. This is why I test products on areas where it don't matter - my own home.
> 
> IMO, Zinsser makes EXCELLENT Shellac based products. Other than that, well, I don't seek them out. And some I will avoid like the Shieldz . . . . ah, I mean..... like the PLAGUE.
> 
> They are spending lots of promotional money getting Smart Prime in our heads. I wonder why with their 1-2-3 do they find it necessary to formulate another waterborne primer ???????


That's a good question. But I do want to try this stuff out...it'd be a damn good all purpose product to use if it actually does what it says it can do.

EDIT - I used the 123 to try to block a felt pen mark on a previous product test, it did better than the other primer I used but not nearly as well as something like cover stain would have. If I could find a product that performed like cover stain in a "non offensive smelling" easy-clean up waterbased, i'm in.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Rcon said:


> That's a good question. But I do want to try this stuff out...it'd be a damn good all purpose product to use *if* it actually does what it says it can do.


Ahhhh, I do love that qualifier .......*IF*

If only Tiger had kept it in his pants

If Bill Buckner coulda bent over to get that ball

If , if , if, ......... history is full of them , ( and IMO, the Big Z is full of something else)

But DO test it and give your report. I am always looking for a decent primer/sealer to recommend to the painter that precedes me.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

daArch said:


> Ahhhh, I do love that qualifier .......*IF*
> 
> If only Tiger had kept it in his pants
> 
> ...


 
Arch, did ya git that right????? I thought ALL the painters that proceeded you have died of old age !!!!


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Arch, did ya git that right????? I thought ALL the painters that proceeded you have died of old age !!!!


I know you are laughing *WITH* me. Ya old coot !









Now, who did you first vote for, Truman or Dewey ? Or maybe I should ask WHICH Roosevelt served when you were a lad ?? :wheelchair:


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

daArch said:


> I know you are laughing *WITH* me. Ya old coot !
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Old,, me old??? 

I had a guy tell me a bit ago, "you old guys are always talking about the old 8 tracks,,,,, Heck, my first car was a 69 Mach1 mustang,,, came from the factory with a stock 4-track. 

Ya know your getting old, when you tell someone something like that and they say,,, "Huh ??????"


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Capt-sheetrock said:


> Old,, me old???
> 
> I had a guy tell me a bit ago, "you old guys are always talking about the old 8 tracks,,,,, Heck, my first car was a 69 Mach1 mustang,,, came from the factory with a stock 4-track.
> 
> Ya know your getting old, when you tell someone something like that and they say,,, "Huh ??????"


Funny.

I'm just glad vinyl is coming back in style. I remember the look of confusion & wonderment when my son first saw an LP play. 

69 Mach I? ah, now I understand . The first vehicle in my name was a '68 Dodge van with the bullet proof slant six

Looked very much identical to this one - and after I had a number of years, that rust behind the front wheels was similar too:


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

My first car was a well used( wrecked) 61 or2 or 3 one of these babies.Bought it for $75 of my own hard earned money. It got me back and forth commuting to college for a year after my brother replaced the engine.


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## slickshift (Apr 8, 2007)

Zinsser, as good as their products are (and they are good), does tend to "over-sell" said products stain sealing abilities

1-2-3 is a good primer, by doesn't seal stains any better than any other latex "stain sealer" (SW Prep-Rite kix it's butt, but is still lacking in areas to be called a "universal/everything sealer")

Cover-Stain is great at sealing tannin bleed and medium water stains (but not heavy water stains or fire damage as claimed)

BIN is probably the exception, it "does what it says on the tin", but is difficult to work with (compared to a latex/oil primer), and has it's limits (can only be used outside for spot/knot priming)

Gardz is also great, but only for uber-specific apps. (it is also weird to work)

Their Pink-To-White Ceiling Paint (I forget the name) is fine (though I really don't care for it), as "one-coat" ceiling paints go, but (regardless of claims) it only seals stains as well as 1-2-3

Having been hosed by some of the claims of most of the above-mentioned products (but still respecting and using them for reasonable apps.), I have difficulty trusting these claims of the new product on Zinsser's marketing department's word alone

Like Bill, I'd want to test it on my own house (or a fam/friend's) before trying to sell it, and trusting it, to do what "marketing" says it will


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## brushmonkey (Jan 4, 2010)

Ive posted my feelings on Kilz primer before. Seems like whenever Ive used it in the past this same scenario happened to me, even with the Oil base. There's a reason a Kilz oil base five costs 20+ dollars _less_ than it does for a five of Zinsser cover stain & it aint quality. Like the old saying goes... You get what you pay for.


Macsimus said:


> I was hired by a gc to do a one day "touch up" round on house that was about to go on the market. The biggest thing was a water stain on the kitchen ceiling. I showed up and started setting up and he ran to the paint store to get me what I needed. I told him a gallon of Kilz for the stain and a few other things. He came back dropped the box off and took off. When I finally got to the stain killing, I saw he had gotten me Kilz Premium (a latex). He later told me that is what they gave him (at C and T Paint in Wellselsy, MA) when he asked for Kilz. I immediately had reservations because I know that latexes do not block stains. But, since the stain was very mild and I thought that the latex technology was improving it might work. Wrong. Because I was skeptical already, I applied 2 coats of the primer, with at least 1 hour of dry time between (per the can directions). Waited at least another hour for the second coat to dry and then rolled a sample finish coat on to see if it would work. Nope. Of course it bled through. I had a nearly empty gallon of Bin coverstain in the van so I scraped the bottom of the can to cover the bleed through and all ended well, just a PITA. Sorry for the long winded post but I just thought I would remind you all latexes do not block stains!


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

daArch said:


> Funny.
> 
> I'm just glad vinyl is coming back in style. I remember the look of confusion & wonderment


Me too,,, My Sweetie feels less out of place now !!!:thumbup:


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## graybear13 (Feb 28, 2009)

Maybe one day water base primer will turn out right , but as for now , I will stick to oil base for a stain blocker . If it ain't broke , don't fix it .


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