# Regal Select



## paladinpainter (Sep 10, 2014)

I used this product for the first time today. Wow, I was impressed. Excellent coverage. No splatters. I was even more impressed after pulling paper and tape. Almost zero touch up and I had to pull it when tape wasn't dry yet on freshly painted trim. I will be using more. Regal flat on ceiling and eggshell on walls.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Natura is even better!


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

TJ Paint said:


> Natura is even better!


Natura is going by bye bye. :yes:


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Natura is going by bye bye. :yes:


Wutcha gotta say now Tee Jay..Whoop!:jester:


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Natura is going by bye bye. :yes:


They been saying that for 2 yrs now!


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

TJ Paint said:


> They been saying that for 2 yrs now!


_Eventually_ it'll be true.


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## capepainter (Mar 9, 2012)

Regal good stuff I use a lot of semigloss on trim .


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

Not to derail, but what will they replace Natura with? Seems outta all the products to get the ax, it shouldn't be the only one made by the manufacturer to fill a specific niche. Not only does it cover & flow well, you'll never hear a soul complain about the smell. 

Ok, now back on topic...yay Regal!


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> Not to derail, but what will they replace Natura with? Seems outta all the products to get the ax, it shouldn't be the only one made by the manufacturer to fill a specific niche. Not only does it cover & flow well, you'll never hear a soul complain about the smell.
> 
> Ok, now back on topic...yay Regal!


The entire line is becoming low, or zero voc. Natura is just duplicating what they already have, so might as well simplify the line. 

So said my rep awhile back.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> The entire line is becoming low, or zero voc. Natura is just duplicating what they already have, so might as well simplify the line.
> 
> So said my rep awhile back.


aura & regal are low voc, not zero.

that new spec2000 stuff is zero, but it's mid-line quality...

I agree, Natura does fill a niche. They should just drop regal or aura.
If they asked me, I'd tell them to drop aura, except for deep base.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> The entire line is becoming low, or zero voc. Natura is just duplicating what they already have, so might as well simplify the line.
> 
> 
> 
> So said my rep awhile back.



But unless more changes are made, they still won't be as low of odor as Natura, no matter how much they lower VOC's. IMO, that's the Niche Natura fills


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Aura and regal are zero voc now. 

Natura though gives off nothing but water, I think.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

DeanV said:


> Aura and regal are zero voc now.


Oh, ok. I thought they were still low voc.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I have seen a few places BM has not updated the wording, but tds says zero now.


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## Criard (Nov 23, 2013)

Ultra Spec 500 (super specs GenX tint system replacement) is zero VOC. 
But I've heard a lot of contractors complaining about it. Mostly about how fast it dries and doesn't brush/roll out that great. 

Regal Select is still low VOC as far as I'm aware. At least, the shipments our store is getting in still say low.
We recently repainted the inside of our shop and decided to try out a few gallons of RegaL select. we also found that it dried really fast and made cutting in and back rolling tricky. A little floetrol made it work beautifully.
As with any paint, most bright accent (4B) base colors that aren't tinted with a lot of hiding pigment (red/yellow oxides, black/white) do not hide well and will require several coats if you don't use a tinted primer.


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## TKbrush (Dec 30, 2014)

My first response after using regal select, was that it rolls and cuts like aura. I still feel like it might have similar properties to aura. Its a definite improvement to the old regal.


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## Jay23 (Oct 23, 2014)

BM is keeping Natura, not sure why but they are revamping it and are going to call it Natura Renew. At least that's what my rep told me. Natura & Regal select will apply and perform very similar to Aura. It just doe not offer the color lock technology of Aura. The colorant still encapsulates the resin molecule instead of impregnating it. Short answer...better scrub resistance from Aura.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

To further clear up some misconceptions:

Natura is staying. My rep has mentioned nothing about a name change (and we discussed it a week ago). Not saying it's not happening, but it seems unlikely because I've seen the national advertising budget for Natura... I don't think they'd do what they're about to do if they were going to just change the label.

Natura has a few unique selling points that the other lines don't have. Keep in mind zero VOC is only one (relatively small, realistically) aspect of a truly green paint. Natura is Cradle to Cradle approved. http://www.paintdealer.com/blog/2014/12/paint-scene-all-cradle-no-grave/ The scent in it is also less than the other lines even though they're all zero VOC. Realistically, while they all meet zero VOC requirements, I believe in real-world testing Natura will have much lower/almost indiscernible amounts.

Ben, Regal Select, Aura, and Ultra Spec are all zero VOC products now. Some stores *might* still have some old stock, most likely in less used sheens. Gennex colorant is also zero VOC. Some other brands sell "Zero VOC paint" and then push it WAY beyond zero VOC regulations with the tint.

If you're painting with any of the super fast drying, high end BM lines and are having trouble with it drying too quickly: try cutting in the whole room, letting it dry completely, and then filling in. I know this goes against conventional wisdom, but with the Aura especially this is the recommended method of application. You shouldn't see any picture framing. YMMV- I obviously don't want to be responsible if something goes wrong doing this, but this is what I recommend to my customers for Aura and it works well for them.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Jay23 said:


> BM is keeping Natura, not sure why but they are revamping it and are going to call it Natura Renew. At least that's what my rep told me. Natura & Regal select will apply and perform very similar to Aura. It just doe not offer the color lock technology of Aura. The colorant still encapsulates the resin molecule instead of impregnating it. Short answer...better scrub resistance from Aura.


 we have discussed Www.naturarenew.net before.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> we have discussed Www.natuarenew.net before.


There's a typo in that, but if you do fix the typo and visit the page note that depending on your employer it might be NSFW


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## RyPremierPainting (Jan 31, 2015)

I like using the regal their matte finish looks great just finished a big house using oil on trim impervo and regal for walls turned out great. I would recommend it.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Natura is going by bye bye. :yes:



I kind of figured this might happen now hat Regal Select is no VOC.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

TJ Paint said:


> aura & regal are low voc, not zero.
> 
> that new spec2000 stuff is zero, but it's mid-line quality...
> 
> ...



Regal is now No VOC. I had used it the past fall on a job for a HO that requested no VOC paint, so had to make sure it meet the requirements before using it.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Regal might be the king but Natura is Divine


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## Jay23 (Oct 23, 2014)

Click on the attachment and look at the label.


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## Jay23 (Oct 23, 2014)

So there not making Natura renew???


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Jay23 said:


> So there not making Natura renew???


I know they were test marketing it. It seems like they might want to get the name issue sorted before releasing it mainstream.


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## TKbrush (Dec 30, 2014)

From my experience painting, it seems like regal select was the best move ben moore ever made. Because theyre product line got confusing there for awhile, w aura being expensive and being sold as a one coat paint, the eco spec and the ben line. The way theyre whole product line stands now, w regal select being the flagship product, i think they can properly compete against sherwin williams, especially w aura being as good as duration. 
As it is now, i cannot imagine regal select being a better paint and making the tints zero voc was a great, honest, marketing move for the industry.


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## Omaha (Feb 1, 2015)

Hey guys, for a multimillion dollar home, would you only use regal and aura? Do you think ultra spec/super spec would be okay?


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## Omaha (Feb 1, 2015)

My last question related to BM paint. If SW paint, do you think Pro Mar 400 is okay or would you go with something better like duration for a multimillion dollar home?


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## Clearlycut (Dec 1, 2013)

Omaha i would use premium lines there paying for it!
The durability is rather the same across the board kinda. But the richness of color is not even close. IMHO 

Sent from my SM-G900P using PaintTalk.com mobile app


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Omaha said:


> My last question related to BM paint. If SW paint, do you think Pro Mar 400 is okay or would you go with something better like duration for a multimillion dollar home?


Are you serious?


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Omaha said:


> My last question related to BM paint. If SW paint, do you think Pro Mar 400 is okay or would you go with something better like duration for a multimillion dollar home?


Promar 400 for the ceilings maybe... Cashmere for the walls, imho Duration is poo poo.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Omaha said:


> Hey guys, for a multimillion dollar home, would you only use regal and aura? Do you think ultra spec/super spec would be okay?


No. Give your customer the quality paint they DESERVE. 

I do a fair amount of work in high end condos in downtown Chicago, and get to chat with other contractors while waiting for the freight elevator in the mornings. It always amazes me seeing guys walk into multimillion dollar condos with Super Spec paint. WTF?


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

No way would I use low end paint. For one thing, clients (on $$$ jobs) know enough to be dangerous about paint lines. Walk in with PM400/SS and they'll wonder why you are cheaping out on them. Plus, those lines don't have the look that higher end paints have.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

TJ Paint said:


> Are you serious?


trolling, at least I hope so


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

2 posts on the site and that's them... hopefully trolling. Hopefully.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Well, "multi million dollar home" doesn't necessarily mean its high end work. He could be talking about a Mcmasion that needs to be painted for about a $1.50 a foot. Happens every day. I've seen million+ dollar new houses get painted with Master hide. It a sad fact.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Either way it's a sin.


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## AlphaWolf (Nov 23, 2014)

I have done some large homes. Painted a mans home who is in the teacher pension board. SO million dollar home is accurate. I like Cashmere/Opulence on walls. All surface Enamel on trim. That's me personally. If they pay more and want best of the best ill do there trim in Kem Aqua Waterborne lacquer. Thais just me tho.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Omaha said:


> My last question related to BM paint. If SW paint, do you think Pro Mar 400 is okay or would you go with something better like duration for a multimillion dollar home?


If it's new construction, PM 400 would be an upgrade in some areas of the country. A BIG upgrade in California.


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## PNW Painter (Sep 5, 2013)

Even multimillion dollar homes have budgets. You'll easily get priced out of job if you're quoting Regal Select and your competitors spec UltraSpec 500 or something much cheaper.

Also, if they're using a designer, they'll often spec the color and the paint. This doesn't mean that your competitors will bid the job using the paint the designer spec'd. Think about providing a line item in your quote for upgraded paints such Regal Select and educate the customers on the difference. 

Oh yeah, I wouldn't recommend Duration interior either. The major flaw is that the sheen builds with every coat. The sheen build is so high that it'll makes small touch-ups nearly impossible. I had my SW rep out to a jobsite where I used Duration because the touch ups with such an issue with Duration. My rep admitted it was an issue with Duration and told me to add 20%-50% water to the paint. This didn't solve the issue and I ended up having to paint entire walls where touch ups were needed.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

PNW, read your first paragraph and was ready with a rant about how you should educate your customers on what you're bidding (and what to look out for when shoddy contractors bid garbage quality products). Good save.


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

PNW Painter said:


> Even multimillion dollar homes have budgets. You'll easily get priced out of job if you're quoting Regal Select and your competitors spec UltraSpec 500 or something much cheaper.
> 
> Also, if they're using a designer, they'll often spec the color and the paint. This doesn't mean that your competitors will bid the job using the paint the designer spec'd. Think about providing a line item in your quote for upgraded paints such Regal Select and educate the customers on the difference.
> 
> Oh yeah, I wouldn't recommend Duration interior either. The major flaw is that the sheen builds with every coat. The sheen build is so high that it'll makes small touch-ups nearly impossible. I had my SW rep out to a jobsite where I used Duration because the touch ups with such an issue with Duration. My rep admitted it was an issue with Duration and told me to add 20%-50% water to the paint. This didn't solve the issue and I ended up having to paint entire walls where touch ups were needed.




Very interesting about the sheen build interior Duration. I lost faith in that product long ago, although I still love ext. Duration.

Pretty rare that a rep actually admitted the fault was product, and not anything else in the known universe. Any chance your rep was willing to put that into writing? That would be even more rare.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> rep





stelzerpaintinginc. said:


> put that into writing?


I laughed.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

I don't think there is anything "low-end" about super-spec or ultra-spec. They are both fine "high-end" contractor grade paints IMO. They might not hide quite as well as the higher priced homeowner-marketed lines. However, ultra-spec eggshell has the same scrub-cycle durability rating as Aura eggshell. I personally prefer Regal, but would never judge someone harshly for using US. Back in the day, I used a lot of 183 on exteriors and those jobs have held up just as long as my 103 jobs of the same age.


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## gabe (Apr 20, 2012)

We're on a job now where we are using Ultra spec semi gloss on trim. I usually use Advance. I hate to say it but the Ultra Spec is very nice and a hell of a lot easier to use and $20.00 a gallon cheaper. My rep even made a comment about how nice it looked. Sprayed finish.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Omaha said:


> My last question related to BM paint. If SW paint, do you think Pro Mar 400 is okay or would you go with something better like duration for a multimillion dollar home?



I think it's a fair question. Now promar 400 isn't in the same class as ultra spec. However a lot of guys like 400 for ceilings due to it being dead flat. I like ultra spec flat for a lot of ceilings, unless it has to be super dead flat then I use the bm ceiling paint. 
I think the ultra spec is a pretty darn good paint. The flat and low sheen cover well, have only just started using the eggshell but seems ok so far. I personally think you get a lot of bang for the buck with that product. I like regal select and aura too but am finding us using more ultra spec too.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

gabe said:


> We're on a job now where we are using Ultra spec semi gloss on trim. I usually use Advance. I hate to say it but the Ultra Spec is very nice and a hell of a lot easier to use and $20.00 a gallon cheaper. My rep even made a comment about how nice it looked. Sprayed finish.



I've heard it sprays well. The only time I've used the semi gloss was on a brush repaint using a yellow color. Terrible coverage. Ended up buying a gallon of Aura to save the day. I'm sure spray finished in a white base would perform much better.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

Ultra Spec is the only $25ish semi gloss paint I would use. At that price, there are no other decent semis.


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## AlphaWolf (Nov 23, 2014)

kdpaint said:


> Ultra Spec is the only $25ish semi gloss paint I would use. At that price, there are no other decent semis.



I buy Monamel at 19 a gal for semi. As you guessed its just melamine enamel. Goes hard self levels looks really nice imo


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Omaha said:


> My last question related to BM paint. If SW paint, do you think Pro Mar 400 is okay or would you go with something better like duration for a multimillion dollar home?


it depends on what the expectations of the end buyer would be. Promar 400 and ultraspec would certainly be "adequate" to use, but if I were building or buying a multimillion dollar home, I would expect the paint to be more than just adequate. Along with the plumbing, roofing, floorcovering, etc. I would expect to get high end construction materials as well as high end finishing work. Something you should clear with on every job.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> I don't think there is anything "low-end" about super-spec or ultra-spec. They are both fine "high-end" contractor grade paints IMO. They might not hide quite as well as the higher priced homeowner-marketed lines. However, ultra-spec eggshell has the same scrub-cycle durability rating as Aura eggshell. I personally prefer Regal, but would never judge someone harshly for using US. Back in the day, I used a lot of 183 on exteriors and those jobs have held up just as long as my 103 jobs of the same age.


I don't think Ultra Spec is a low-end contractor grade paint, but at the same time even a high-end contractor paint isn't the same as a premium paint. Maybe homeowners are different in your markets, but in my market if a HO finds out a contractor used contractor-grade paint in their expensive, custom home they're going to be repainting. 

It's the same to me as putting cheap veneer on everything and having plastic counter tops... why let that slide in a multimillion dollar home?

Again, nothing wrong with Ultra Spec, I think it's fantastic at what it does and one of the best contractor-grades out there, I just don't feel contractor grade paint is appropriate for most custom home projects. Obviously there'll be some HO that are exceptions.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Woodford said:


> I don't think Ultra Spec is a low-end contractor grade paint, but at the same time even a high-end contractor paint isn't the same as a premium paint. Maybe homeowners are different in your markets, but in my market if a HO finds out a contractor used contractor-grade paint in their expensive, custom home they're going to be repainting. It's the same to me as putting cheap veneer on everything and having plastic counter tops... why let that slide in a multimillion dollar home? Again, nothing wrong with Ultra Spec, I think it's fantastic at what it does and one of the best contractor-grades out there, I just don't feel contractor grade paint is appropriate for most custom home projects. Obviously there'll be some HO that are exceptions.


 And your profit margin is the same across all product lines, so your opinion is completely unbiased? Most homeowners I know couldn't tell the difference given that both were applied professionally.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> And your profit margin is the same across all product lines, so your opinion is completely unbiased? Most homeowners I know couldn't tell the difference given that both were applied professionally.


I make much less on Ultra Spec and still sell it to people when it's appropriate. I'm not a big box store; I believe in selling the right tool for the job, not the one that nets me the best margin. Believe it or not, there are still some of us out there that care more about our customers than making the highest margin possible. That's why we're in business.

Regardless of whether the HO can tell offhand (and I think anyone could tell the difference between US and Aura, especially on trim), the Aura would hold color/not fade longer, and if we're talking about exterior has a lifetime warrantee vs. a satisfaction guarantee (and a whole slew of other performance differences).


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

But hey, if the HO can't tell the difference let's just fill the walls with low grade lumber, faux granite counter tops, veneer on all the cheap doors, single pane windows, no insulation anywhere, and lead pipes. Because, you know, they can't tell by looking at it that it's different, and that's what counts, right?


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Woodford said:


> I make much less on Ultra Spec and still sell it to people when it's appropriate. I'm not a big box store; I believe in selling the right tool for the job, not the one that nets me the best margin. Believe it or not, there are still some of us out there that care more about our customers than making the highest margin possible. That's why we're in business. Regardless of whether the HO can tell offhand (and I think anyone could tell the difference between US and Aura, especially on trim), the Aura would hold color/not fade longer, and if we're talking about exterior has a lifetime warrantee vs. a satisfaction guarantee (and a whole slew of other performance differences).


 I can appreciate that. When do you deem Ultra Spec as appropriate? I would say it's appropriate whenever the professional painter who is contracted to apply it says it is, at least 9 times out of 10, there all always exceptions.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

In my experience: 
1. ultra and aura hold their colors at a near equal rate. 

2. Lifetime warranties on exterior products are marketing gimmicks

3. With the exception of a few trained professionals, most people could not tell the difference between ultra and aura samples on GWB, given they are both professionally applied.

4. Contractors should know what paint is appropriate for a given job that they are contracted to perform, and shouldn't be contradicted by suppliers looking to increase their margins.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

I can tell you for a fact the contractors around here don't know what they're doing for paint; mainly because 9 times out of 10 it's general contractors who don't know a damn thing about paint in my market. That means, no, they don't know better than I do, and if I have a shred of honesty I should be telling them what to get.

Your experience is great, and you're more than welcome to buy whatever you want. Like I said, I'm not here to sell anyone paint and I'm not in your market anyways, so I don't really care what you buy. But Ultra Spec 500 and Aura don't hold color at the same rate by anyone's estimation that I know. Aura is formulated differently than any of the other BM paints specifically to hold the color. That's part of why the price is so high. I also don't feel BM's lifetime warrantee is a gimmick and I've seen it honored for people at least once fairly recently; again, think what you want, I don't care.

You seem really hung up on me "trying to increase my margins." I don't know what paint store hurt you in the past, but that isn't my deal and never will be. I'm not the owner here, I don't get a commission, AND most of our profits are not from paint or paint related sales. This is purely a side-project for my owners. I don't care about margin. I care about being a successful, honest business. If you can't accept that, fine, but don't expect me to be happy about repeated accusations that I treat my customers like **** just for an extra dollar.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> And your profit margin is the same across all product lines, so your opinion is completely unbiased? Most homeowners I know couldn't tell the difference given that both were applied professionally.


A quality painting contractor should get a quality finish from both products, that is correct. But if the end user has an expectation of the durability or whatever of the finish, it is good business practice to give them that quality. Question, if they were to ask you how good of paint you were using, would you tell them? Also, if it is just a flat, I know quite a few homeowners that can tell the difference between a "contractor" grade paint and a higher quality paint. And conversely, I know lots of people who really don't care, just as long as they have a nice smooth finish. From my experience on the selling end of this business, the painters who are using the best quality paint for any given job are the ones who are in business and profitable for the longest length of time. If you undercut the quality expectation of your customer too much, or too often, it can cause problems.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Lol, I obviously don't know anything about how you guys run your businesses. I didn't intend on any of my statements as personal attacks on you or your operations. I'm sure you both are completely fine, ethical business people. I appreciate your perspective on this forum. My comments are based on my experience only. I'm extremely fortunate to have excellent relationships with my suppliers as well. Keep doing what you do!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> In my experience:
> 1. ultra and aura hold their colors at a near equal rate.
> 
> 2. Lifetime warranties on exterior products are marketing gimmicks
> ...




You are right there, it is our responsibility to sell you the product you need, and maybe recommend products you haven't tried in certain situations. This is a problem with the larger paint retailers in the country, and one of the main reasons I started my own paint store this summer. You should have a good enough working relationship with your paint store that you should never feel uncomfortable sending a customer into that store, and that store should know what products you typically use. The store SHOULD function as if it were on your payroll when it comes to dealing with YOUR customers, but this is rarely the case in the business these days. And also, there isn't a warranty on a gallon of paint anywhere that is worth the paper it is printed on. It all comes back to the integrity and accountability of the paint company.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

To answer the earlier question about when I suggest Ultra Spec, generally anything for non-custom new construction, commercial work that's bidding on price alone (and I know won't bite on quality), and some of my contractors that always use it regardless.

I know what each of my contractors likes and tends to use (those that are consistent/know anything about paint, at least, some just grab the first can they see). If their customers come in, I let them know what the contractor usually uses and if they ask about something else I'm happy to explain and let them know to ask the contractor if they're okay with using it/what effect it might have on the price. I don't push more expensive paint on HO's if I know their contractor doesn't want it. I do try to push my contractors towards the right paint for the job, and sometimes that means pushing them lower on the margin spectrum.

Had a contractor who was going to paint a wall temporarily until they could get back and remove the wall (few months from now, probably). He was looking at Regal and I told him not to bother and just use US. No point spending money on a super durable, long lasting paint if the wall's going to be gone in a few months.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

I think things Woodford is talking about are the same kind of things I am dealing with. One of the problems is that there are a lot of painters in my area that advertise that they use quality SW paint exclusively. They have the homeowners pretty well convinced that they will be getting a quality paint, and they are paying the price for that paint. Then the painter uses Promar 200 exclusively. The retail price of Promar 200 is, oh I don't know for sure, but lets say it's $45.00 a gallon. These painters are selling the job based on that price, and then telling their customer that "I can get you the paint at my price and save you a little money", and then that sell the job at $35.00 a gallon. Then they buy it at $20.00 a gallon and make a little extra profit. Now I know that the actual price of that paint can and should be irrelevant to the overall price of the job, but that is how a lot of painters sell their service, and that really hurts the independent paint store owners. And SW enables the whole process with their pricing and marketing. I know as a former Ben Moore guy at least one painter in the area here has a nice Ben Moore sign on his van and even references Ben Moore in his adds and in the newspaper. In five years at the local BM dealer, we never sold him a gallon of paint. All he ever used was PM200. And we were the only BM dealer for fifty miles in any direction.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Woodford said:


> To answer the earlier question about when I suggest Ultra Spec, generally anything for non-custom new construction, commercial work that's bidding on price alone (and I know won't bite on quality), and some of my contractors that always use it regardless.
> 
> I know what each of my contractors likes and tends to use (those that are consistent/know anything about paint, at least, some just grab the first can they see). If their customers come in, I let them know what the contractor usually uses and if they ask about something else I'm happy to explain and let them know to ask the contractor if they're okay with using it/what effect it might have on the price. I don't push more expensive paint on HO's if I know their contractor doesn't want it. I do try to push my contractors towards the right paint for the job, and sometimes that means pushing them lower on the margin spectrum.
> 
> Had a contractor who was going to paint a wall temporarily until they could get back and remove the wall (few months from now, probably). He was looking at Regal and I told him not to bother and just use US. No point spending money on a super durable, long lasting paint if the wall's going to be gone in a few months.


This is how someone runs a store when they have integrity and accountability.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Well I'm sure as hell not (read: couldn't be if I wanted to) in it for the money, so I figure I gotta be in it for something


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Woodford said:


> I can tell you for a fact the contractors around here don't know what they're doing for paint; mainly because 9 times out of 10 it's general contractors who don't know a damn thing about paint in my market. That means, no, they don't know better than I do, and if I have a shred of honesty I should be telling them what to get. Your experience is great, and you're more than welcome to buy whatever you want. Like I said, I'm not here to sell anyone paint and I'm not in your market anyways, so I don't really care what you buy. But Ultra Spec 500 and Aura don't hold color at the same rate by anyone's estimation that I know. Aura is formulated differently than any of the other BM paints specifically to hold the color. That's part of why the price is so high. I also don't feel BM's lifetime warrantee is a gimmick and I've seen it honored for people at least once fairly recently; again, think what you want, I don't care. You seem really hung up on me "trying to increase my margins." I don't know what paint store hurt you in the past, but that isn't my deal and never will be. I'm not the owner here, I don't get a commission, AND most of our profits are not from paint or paint related sales. This is purely a side-project for my owners. I don't care about margin. I care about being a successful, honest business. If you can't accept that, fine, but don't expect me to be happy about repeated accusations that I treat my customers like **** just for an extra dollar.


 Repeated accusations that I threat my customers like ****? When did that happen?


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Proalliance coatings said:


> A quality painting contractor should get a quality finish from both products, that is correct. But if the end user has an expectation of the durability or whatever of the finish, it is good business practice to give them that quality. Question, if they were to ask you how good of paint you were using, would you tell them? Also, if it is just a flat, I know quite a few homeowners that can tell the difference between a "contractor" grade paint and a higher quality paint. And conversely, I know lots of people who really don't care, just as long as they have a nice smooth finish. From my experience on the selling end of this business, the painters who are using the best quality paint for any given job are the ones who are in business and profitable for the longest length of time. If you undercut the quality expectation of your customer too much, or too often, it can cause problems.


 You nailed it in your previous post regarding how you treat your contractor's customers. I always specify exact materials on each contract. That way there are never any questions or surprises.


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## gabe (Apr 20, 2012)

It sounds like we need some facts to clarify our view of the BM lines. In using the Ultra spec interior line I really like it and really like the price. Is there scrub tests and fade tests that provides answers to how much better the premium lines holds up compared to the Ultra line? I can tell you when a carpenter rams a piece of wood into the finish it scratches the same as premium paint but touches up better.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

gabe said:


> It sounds like we need some facts to clarify our view of the BM lines. In using the Ultra spec interior line I really like it and really like the price. Is there scrub tests and fade tests that provides answers to how much better the premium lines holds up compared to the Ultra line? I can tell you when a carpenter rams a piece of wood into the finish it scratches the same as premium paint but touches up better.


 my understanding is Ultra eggshell=aura eggshell in the scrub test. Regarding fade resistance, all Gennex paints are extremely more fade resistant than all the old glycol tint paints were. Across all lines, fade resistance has been improved dramatically. The amount of fade you experience will have more to do with the color, than the paint line, IMO. Aura is the only line with "color lock". My BM rep says no comparative fade testing data is available.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Aura has color lock as mentioned. Maybe just marketing hype; I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt after having the story corroborated by many customers. The one thing I've noticed (and my rep said the same thing) is that for interior walls in frequent, direct sunlight the Aura performs better than any of the other lines. 

As far as the difference between Aura and Ultra Spec (or, in general, any of the premium lines and any contractor paint) you're going to get better hide, better self-smoothing, easier cleaning, less gloss change, lower fade. Specific to the Aura/Ultra Spec comparison, with Aura you're going to get the previously discussed less fade, Aura has mildewcide in it, and Aura will have lower actual VOC's and less odor than Ultra Spec (even though they're both VOC-free based on industry standards). Aura is much more resistant to sheen/color change when scrubbing, especially in flatter sheens. It also gets you "designer" sheens like matte which isn't available in ultra spec. Info here is both from personal experience and from Consumer Reports.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> And your profit margin is the same across all product lines, so your opinion is completely unbiased?





ExcelPaintingCo said:


> 4. Contractors should know what paint is appropriate for a given job that they are contracted to perform, and shouldn't be contradicted by suppliers looking to increase their margins.





ExcelPaintingCo said:


> Repeated accusations that I threat [_sic_] my customers like ****? When did that happen?


So you're saying you've _not_ been implying that I sell customers the wrong paint for the job just to make margins? Because it suuuuuure looks like that's what you've been saying. I'm not looking to pick a fight here, but uh... it's right there.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Woodford said:


> So you're saying you've _not_ been implying that I sell customers the wrong paint for the job just to make margins? Because it suuuuuure looks like that's what you've been saying. I'm not looking to pick a fight here, but uh... it's right there.


I think he was more speaking in generalizations rather than pointing a finger right at you directly. Don't take it personally. It's just the interweb.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

There was a pretty specific "Your" with my post quoted directly before it =\

I'm not going to lose any sleep over it, just not crazy about being treated that way.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Wildbill7145 said:


> I think he was more speaking in generalizations rather than pointing a finger right at you directly. Don't take it personally. It's just the interweb.


 Exactly, but it says a lot when somebody gets over sensitive and defensive for no reason. Then starts spouting off unfounded accusations, and disingenuous claims. Whatever though, I'm not trying to pick a fight either.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Woodford said:


> There was a pretty specific "Your" with my post quoted directly before it =\ I'm not going to lose any sleep over it, just not crazy about being treated that way.


 Fail, again. Please re-read all my statements you quoted as evidence, there's nothing about you treating your customers poorly. Those are just my beliefs. Sensitive/defensive much? Still waiting for an apology for your false accusations, then we can move on.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Woodford said:


> So you're saying you've _not_ been implying that I sell customers the wrong paint for the job just to make margins? Because it suuuuuure looks like that's what you've been saying. I'm not looking to pick a fight here, but uh... it's right there.


There is a difference between trying to make sure a customer is buying a paint line that will live up to their expectations and trying to gouge someone to get more profit or margin from them. I really think we in the paint stores that have a good amount of sales experience have a better ability to "read" a customer than someone who predominantly works as a tradesman. There is a very high percentage of painters out there who try to squeeze as much profit out of a job as they can, not that that is always a bad thing. It can be, if misleading marketing or sale tactics are used to sell a job. Think of the painters that advertise painting any room for $99.00. Is this misleading? Yes it is. Do they use the cheapest paint that will look decent when they are done? Yes they do. Do they figure a way to upcharge the paint to excess? Usually. And your major paint stores and suppliers are right in cahoots with them. Why? Because they make money.
Sometimes I wish there was a huge national painting company that did everything they could to squeeze the independent contractors out. If that were to happen, I think contractors and painters in particular would have a better understanding of how and why the few remaining independent paint stores function. Our survival depends on our ability to meet customer expectations and that includes sometimes upgrading the paint that we sell, without coming off to our customers as snake oil salesmen or used car dealers. The way the major paint retailers market themselves has made it very hard to do this. All of the hollow promises they make that they can't live up to tend to make people wary of the independent that is just trying to make sure they are getting what they are paying for. I am sure that the quality painting contractors see this as well. I just wish more of them would.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Proalliance coatings said:


> There is a difference between trying to make sure a customer is buying a paint line that will live up to their expectations and trying to gouge someone to get more profit or margin from them. I really think we in the paint stores that have a good amount of sales experience have a better ability to "read" a customer than someone who predominantly works as a tradesman. There is a very high percentage of painters out there who try to squeeze as much profit out of a job as they can, not that that is always a bad thing. It can be, if misleading marketing or sale tactics are used to sell a job. Think of the painters that advertise painting any room for $99.00. Is this misleading? Yes it is. Do they use the cheapest paint that will look decent when they are done? Yes they do. Do they figure a way to upcharge the paint to excess? Usually. And your major paint stores and suppliers are right in cahoots with them. Why? Because they make money. Sometimes I wish there was a huge national painting company that did everything they could to squeeze the independent contractors out. If that were to happen, I think contractors and painters in particular would have a better understanding of how and why the few remaining independent paint stores function. Our survival depends on our ability to meet customer expectations and that includes sometimes upgrading the paint that we sell, without coming off to our customers as snake oil salesmen or used car dealers. The way the major paint retailers market themselves has made it very hard to do this. All of the hollow promises they make that they can't live up to tend to make people wary of the independent that is just trying to make sure they are getting what they are paying for. I am sure that the quality painting contractors see this as well. I just wish more of them would.


 IMO there is nothing wrong or insulting about attempting to up sell a customer into a premium product. I consider such practice as both normal and acceptable across all businesses. To suggest that one would never do that is disingenuous, IMO.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> Fail, again. Please re-read all my statements you quoted as evidence, there's nothing about you treating your customers poorly. Those are just my beliefs. Sensitive/defensive much? Still waiting for an apology for your false accusations, then we can move on.


Accusing someone of selling inappropriate product for margin _which you directly stated in the quote_ is obviously wrong. There's no false accusations here, those were the words out of your own mouth. Sorry for being "sensitive" to being accused of bad business practice, that seems a pretty legitimate response to me. If you think I'm going to apologize for responding to your direct, pointed accusations at me you've got another thing coming. Take responsibility for what comes out of your mouth, internet or not.

I'm not demanding an apology from you because that's frankly puerile and I don't give a flying f, but that doesn't mean I'm just going to watch you imply misconduct on my part without saying anything.

Edit: maybe there's a misunderstanding here and you think that selling customers products they don't need to make more money ISN'T treating them poorly. If so, you're right, I owe you an apology. However, I consider that to be a pretty crappy practice, so you can understand why I might be perturbed at being directly accused of it multiple times.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Woodford said:


> Accusing someone of selling inappropriate product for margin which you directly stated in the quote is obviously wrong. There's no false accusations here, those were the words out of your own mouth. Sorry for being "sensitive" to being accused of bad business practice, that seems a pretty legitimate response to me. If you think I'm going to apologize for responding to your direct, pointed accusations at me you've got another thing coming. Take responsibility for what comes out of your mouth, internet or not. I'm not demanding an apology from you because that's frankly puerile and I don't give a flying f, but that doesn't mean I'm just going to watch you imply misconduct on my part without saying anything. Edit: maybe there's a misunderstanding here and you think that selling customers products they don't need to make more money ISN'T treating them poorly. If so, you're right, I owe you an apology. However, I consider that to be a pretty crappy practice, so you can understand why I might be perturbed at being directly accused of it multiple times.


 so now you're putting words in my mouth, and claiming that I treat my customers poorly? Get over yourself. My earlier posts were meant as feedback, or how I believe a paint store should treat their contractors customers. I put my feelings and beliefs out there for all paint stores to use to better serve their contractor customers by seeing how one contractor feels. Frankly, your continual false accusations and defensiveness is telling me a lot about how you treat your customers. My words speak for them self and I stand by them to be a correct representation of how I feel as a painting contractor.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> putting words in my mouth





Woodford said:


> *maybe *... you think





ExcelPaintingCo said:


> and claiming that I treat my customers poorly?




Have a good one buddy. :thumbup:


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Woodford said:


> Have a good one buddy. :thumbup:


 Thanks, and keep up the good work promoting your brand, Woodford!


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

So, moving on...


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> IMO there is nothing wrong or insulting about attempting to up sell a customer into a premium product. I consider such practice as both normal and acceptable across all businesses. To suggest that one would never do that is disingenuous, IMO.


that is in fact what I was trying to say, but a store should also be careful not to undermine their painters to upsell. The product the painter wants to use should be well communicated between the painter and the store beforehand. What I am saying is that sometimes (actually quite often), painting contractors "upsell" but don't actually "upgrade" the paint they use. That is the problem. I honestly don't believe that very many painters that do that are on this forum. Simply because they don't care enough about what they are doing as a contractor to care about the topics presented here. Many, many times in the past I have had so called reputable painters call me up complaining about a price increase, and instead of wanting to know anything about my paint lines or the benefits I can provide to them, they only ask what my lowest price is.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> Thanks, and keep up the good work promoting your brand, Woodford!


A smarter man than me says I've misjudged your statements, and that they've all been benign in nature.

I'm sorry for any slights I've given you. You're right, I am defensive about how I treat my customers. My job and its impact on this community means a lot to me. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding and my response to you. Have a good one.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Woodford said:


> A smarter man than me says I've misjudged your statements, and that they've all been benign in nature.


Thanks for the compliment. I knew you'd come around.

:thumbsup:

Keep in mind, February is Interweb Anger month and sometimes it's hard to elude and resist it's Siren song.


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Woodford said:


> A smarter man than me says I've misjudged your statements, and that they've all been benign in nature. I'm sorry for any slights I've given you. You're right, I am defensive about how I treat my customers. My job and its impact on this community means a lot to me. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding and my response to you. Have a good one.


 I apologize for unintentionally "ruffling your feathers", that is not my usual PT MO. There it is, let there be piece and harmony.


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## wje (Apr 11, 2009)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> I apologize for unintentionally "ruffling your feathers", that is not my usual PT MO. There it is, let there be piece and harmony.


#grouphug


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Thanks for the compliment. I knew you'd come around.
> 
> :thumbsup:
> 
> Keep in mind, February is Interweb Anger month and sometimes it's hard to elude and resist it's Siren song.


The mods have another name for it. But since this is a family friendly site… :no:


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> I apologize for unintentionally "ruffling your feathers", that is not my usual PT MO. There it is, let there be piece and harmony.


aaaahhhhh, PEACE? maybe


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

chrisn said:


> aaaahhhhh, PEACE? maybe


 Yes, that.


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## Phinnster (Feb 20, 2013)

We love select 

Hatesdaqua velvet

Also we use a ton of ben 
We get for same price as ultra


It is a fantastic eggshell paint with great coverage and a nice even consistent sheen 


I swear we can't get a consistent sheen finsih off duration interior 
And that is the mat 

I have a,l but given up on s w all together
Some claim to love cashmere and I like the " buttery smooth hype" but have not been impressed what so ever 
It seems very watery to me


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