# Help needed with Concrete Garage Floor



## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

Here's the deal a few months ago we did a garage floor with H&C Shield-Crete Epoxy Concrete Garage Floor coating from the local SW store

We also painted the exterior ( 2 stories ) with Durations and have done 20 plus jobs for their friends with 1 being a picture on our box truck so keeping them happy is VERY important

How after a few weeks the clear coat started to yellow and tire marks where highly visible

SW rep came out and recommended & provided free of cost 2 coats of H&C concrete sealer wet look water based and after a few weeks the same thing happened but worst ... the tire marks a unbelievable and you can see where the clear has yellowed anywhere something set like a tool box or a bucket

SW answer? they say some tires will cause this and is normal, degreaser will clean it they say but it's burned into the clear

Now my questions is how do you sell ( i never will again ) a floor coating that will look like crap ? SW asked what kind of car because certain tire cause this. Bull crap, i can't tell a homeowner they can only buy a certain tire 

I have done many and NEVER had this happen

Here's a few pic's and i am at the point to pay out of pocket to remove this coating but need advice on how to? Shot blast? 





































SW i am not a happy camper ... 
My customers mean more to me then you
after all they pay me ...


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## kmp (Jan 30, 2011)

H&C products are true crap.Never had any good results with them.I did a floor yesterday and rented a diamond coated disc that fits on a floor buffer.It's stiff tabs with diamond coating.Two grits,one for removalthat you use wet and one for finish.They cost 65.00each per day to rent plus buffer and worked on latex and concrete.Not as fast as I wanted but they might work for you.They might remove the clear coat enough so you could put on a different but compatable base and clear finish.I hate doing floors.


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## DK Remodeling (Mar 22, 2013)

Repaint Florida said:


> Here's the deal a few months ago we did a garage floor with H&C Shield-Crete Epoxy Concrete Garage Floor coating from the local SW store
> 
> We also painted the exterior ( 2 stories ) with Durations and have done 20 plus jobs for their friends with 1 being a picture on our box truck so keeping them happy is VERY important
> 
> ...


You need to use better products. I'll get you some info in the morning. Usually when it turns yellow is because it's been exposed to the sun.


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## modernfinish (Mar 20, 2013)

Man that really blows. Don't use water based epoxy for garage floors. I don't trust it and your pics is the reason why... Sorry man . You need to just redo it with solvent epoxy. it should be cured by now if its been a month .Now it's going to be sketchy putting a solvent based epoxy over it so I would do a small section. I would try that before you go sand blasting. Make SW hook you up with some real chit.


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## GreenGuy (Feb 14, 2013)

Usually yellowing is a result of UV exposure during the drying/curing process BUT for this to happen weeks after is unusual. As well as it seeming to be isolate to only the tires. Are there more pictures I'm missing? If not it looks to me like its something on the tires that's causing this. Need more information: where is the car being driven/taken every day? Has anything changed about their driveway since the work (repaved, etc), are the tires brand new or are the owners obsessive about cleaning them? What it looks like to me is either the HO didn't wait long enough before driving on the surface AND/or the tires themselves have some chemical on them from someplace that's being leeched into the flooring. Maybe a tire polish or cleaner?
Another thought; it looks like they have a window in the garage that sunlight hits right on those marks. Could it be that they have highly reflective rims/wheels and that sunlight is hitting them and reflecting intensified UV off the tires? The reflection is not only heating the tires making them 'stick' but its also reflecting the UV onto the tread marks where the car was parked previously. It would cause the yellowing to match the treads like the pictures show. 
Anyway, good luck!


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## GreenGuy (Feb 14, 2013)

I just looked up the product....I didn't realize it was water based. And it doesn't require acid etching? I hate to be completely unhelpful but after reading up on the product I have to agree with some other posters. The product just kind of stinks. Sorry man.


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

GreenGuy said:


> Usually yellowing is a result of UV exposure during the drying/curing process BUT for this to happen weeks after is unusual. As well as it seeming to be isolate to only the tires. Are there more pictures I'm missing? If not it looks to me like its something on the tires that's causing this. Need more information: where is the car being driven/taken every day? Has anything changed about their driveway since the work (repaved, etc), are the tires brand new or are the owners obsessive about cleaning them? What it looks like to me is either the HO didn't wait long enough before driving on the surface AND/or the tires themselves have some chemical on them from someplace that's being leeched into the flooring. Maybe a tire polish or cleaner?
> Another thought; it looks like they have a window in the garage that sunlight hits right on those marks. Could it be that they have highly reflective rims/wheels and that sunlight is hitting them and reflecting intensified UV off the tires? The reflection is not only heating the tires making them 'stick' but its also reflecting the UV onto the tread marks where the car was parked previously. It would cause the yellowing to match the treads like the pictures show.
> Anyway, good luck!


windows are closed all the time ( i opened for pic ) as they are very security minded, Sw says high performance tire cause this but again how can you sell some thing that the ho has to use certain tires? anywhere rubber like from a cart (10# max, bike, ect ) it yellows 

It's a dog & pony show for SW with many different fingers pointing but i have to step up and take care of it. So how do i remove it to bare concrete or recoat with not make or sold by SW


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## modernfinish (Mar 20, 2013)

Repaint Florida said:


> So how do i remove it to bare concrete or recoat with not make or sold by SW



This


kmp said:


> I did a floor yesterday and rented a diamond coated disc that fits on a floor buffer.It's stiff tabs with diamond coating.Two grits,one for removalthat you use wet and one for finish.They cost 65.00each per day to rent plus buffer and worked on latex and concrete.Not as fast as I wanted but they might work for you.They might remove the clear coat enough so you could put on a different but compatable base and clear finish.I hate doing floors.



Since you are buying new product. You got nothing to lose . The h&c crap will be like primer.
I seriously would try to recoat it just like you were starting over BUT mix a little try in a 4'x4' corner first to see if it crackles ,THEN if no crackles and everything looks good do entire floor . It's worth a shot , compared to a stripping grinding nightmare that everyone will dread. Do you have Pitsburgh paints ? I've gotten really good epoxy from them I can find it in the morning tell you the name of it. You want the stuff that cleans w acetone or zylene.


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## GreenGuy (Feb 14, 2013)

I'm no expert on removing coatings but I'd have to imagine that if you prepped the substrate correctly and applied the coating correctly that its going to be stuck on there pretty well. Is there a urethane top coat? If so and the epoxy is good and 'stuck' you may need only to get that glossy top coat off and just rough the floor enough to accept the solvent based epoxy. Of course you'll need to make sure there's no problematic chemical reactions between the two first. But even if there is you may be able to find a primer to put on before the new epoxy. 
I may be completely off base here but, again assuming you did all the correct prep work before applying the first epoxy, I wouldn't think you'd need to take the garage floor all the way down to bare concrete before starting over. I'll definitely defer to the older more experienced crew though. 
Oh, I also wouldn't have SW back out at the site again either. All they'll likely do is tell you all your plans to remedy this mess won't work or will compromise the previous blah, blah, blah. I'd listen to what these guys on the forum tell you to do. They're the real experts and they may just be able to pull your ass out of this mess. They've done it for me a few times now lol. 
Just remember its only paint and its only a garage floor. Think clearly, avoid frustration, and never give up. It'll be fine in the end. It may take a while but it'll be fine. There's no mistake that can't eventually be corrected with this type of thing. Stay calm and stay professional.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Strip the clear coat off. 

Get a better urethane for the topcoat.


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## HorizonPainting (Apr 1, 2011)

Aquapon epoxy coating from Pittsburgh. It's an industrial floor coating, but I'm pretty certain you'd have to strip & acid etch the floor beforehand. Good luck with that nightmare. SW sucks for not backing you up on that one. Give PPG a shot next job.


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Todays tires are made with a softer compound which generate more heat. What you are seeing is the result of a hot tire sitting on the surface - causing the discoloration. I use to get 4-5 calls a year on this type of problem. Never had an answer for the customer until one day I was looking at a similar problem in my sister's garage. One of their good friends from out of town, who owns an engineering firm, happened to stop by, took one look and said: "Hot tires.". Then he explained it all to me. Made sense then, and still makes sense today.

Basically there are two options: Let the tires cool off before parking in the garage. Or, put some composite large flooring tiles where the tires usually set. (We did this in my sister's garage and there wasn't even any real discoloration on the tiles. What little there was could be cleaned off with a good cleanser.)

Personally, I've done maybe a half-dozen garage floors. Never quite got into the comfort factor of doing them due to me worrying about adhesion, discoloration, and wear issues.


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## NACE (May 16, 2008)

The SW rep is correct and here is why: all tires have compounds in them called plasticizers. All coatings have plasticizers. The higher the plasticizer content the softer the tire compound. Usually Porsche, BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Lexus, Infiniti, and some SUVs have softer tires. These two compounds will chemically attract or "marry" causing " plasticizer migration" You are seeing the staining as a result of warm tires going on cooler concrete that facilitate and accelerate the process. Yellowing is the result of an epoxy resin being exposed to UV. If you want a flawless floor you. Will need to use higher performance coatings. Acid etch is a very poor prep standard. Those kits are low performance. The best kit is Insulx Garage Guard. It has an amine resin rather then an acrylic epoxy or polyamide epoxy. It is water based but has a very high tensile strength. The best system is to diamond gring floor to a surface profile of CSP 3 (about 80-50 grit sandpaper) after degreasing. 1 coat of 100% Solids Pre Prime @ 900-1200 sq ft per Catylized kit. 1 coat of 100% Solids Epoxy @ 8 -12 mils DFT, and 1 coat of aliphatic urethane clear @ 2-3 mils DFT. even with an aliphatic urethane that has extremely good gloss, color, abrasion and chemical resistance you can get tire staining. You didn't do anything wrong, the product is a low performance kit made for homeowners primarily and is marketed to be Jesus In a can. PM me if you need further help and I would be glad to talk to you about it too. Floors are not hard if you know that floors require much different testing, prep, products, and experience to get a success rate of 90%. 10% will fail with 100% attention to detail.


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

Wolfgang said:


> Todays tires are made with a softer compound which generate more heat. What you are seeing is the result of a hot tire sitting on the surface - causing the discoloration. I use to get 4-5 calls a year on this type of problem. Never had an answer for the customer until one day I was looking at a similar problem in my sister's garage. One of their good friends from out of town, who owns an engineering firm, happened to stop by, took one look and said: "Hot tires.". Then he explained it all to me. Made sense then, and still makes sense today.
> 
> Basically there are two options: Let the tires cool off before parking in the garage. Or, put some composite large flooring tiles where the tires usually set. (We did this in my sister's garage and there wasn't even any real discoloration on the tiles. What little there was could be cleaned off with a good cleanser.)
> 
> Personally, I've done maybe a half-dozen garage floors. Never quite got into the comfort factor of doing them due to me worrying about adhesion, discoloration, and wear issues.


 Thats what it is "hot tires" it's only where the tires sit but the homeowners paid for a finish floor and don't want to "park" on a mat or anything else.

Seriously who would want to pay to have there floor coated then have to worry about parking on it.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

To strip the floor get a scarifer, grind the top coat and base coat off, change sanding dics and scarifey the whole floor again, acid etching doesn't work the greatest it is blotchy. I would also check BM and use their Polyamide Epoxy. We did a floor and the BM rep came out, we told them the HO drove 45 mins home from work every day and we were conserned hot tires would ruin it, he said after 30 days maybe less it would be perfectly fine, we did that one last summer and it still looks new, the HO pulls in right after driving for 45 mins.
You can get floor tiles to place where the tires go or try Garage floor protectors (strips that go where the tires would ride).


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## GusPrice (Jan 15, 2013)

Repaint Florida said:


> Thats what it is "hot tires" it's only where the tires sit but the homeowners paid for a finish floor and don't want to "park" on a mat or anything else.
> 
> Seriously who would want to pay to have there floor coated then have to worry about parking on it.


Totally agree with Wolfgang. 
I do a couple of garage floors a month. You just need to make the customer aware of the limitations in advance - "if you've been out for a long or fast drive leave the car in the drive for a wee bit, let the tires cool down and your floor will keep looking good for a long long time" if you warn them and they ignore you, you're being called for chargeable maintenance not to repair something you messed up.


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## modernfinish (Mar 20, 2013)

Then there's this stuff , I just recently coated a granite bar top with it and someone let a whole cigarette burn all the way like the very next day . Anyways it wiped right off w Krud Kutter. I was amazed ,no burn mark . The label cracks me up it says for clean up wipe with water and then zylene . Talk about one extreme to the other . For water base it's good. You definitely could go right over what you got with either of these products.


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## alertchief (Nov 12, 2009)

The fastest way to lose a good client is to paint flat concrete!


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## rjsabajr (Jul 18, 2012)

Had the same thing happen to me with a 2 part oil epoxy that I was told used on air plane hangers it yellow only where the motor from his can set above and the tires marked the hell out of it. The rep said Michelin tires are the worst lol that would of been helpful to know that


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## NACE (May 16, 2008)

It looks like a flooring class would be a great thing for this group. Too many myths about products, prep, and application regarding floors. Any ideas about doing a class?


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

Yeah, what's up with the idea that acid etching provides a decent surface for garage (or almost any) floor coatings? Or that garage floor kits actually work? Or "garage paint?" Yikes. Time for the master class...


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## O'Brien (Feb 24, 2011)

This is timely as I just looked at my first garage floor today. I've been researching the old threads..


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

I just finished a 7k square foot auto storage room with all SW products. Two coats macropoxy two coats HS Polly. The floor had been sealed already and was mechanically troweled, so it was the worst case scenario as far as amount of prep required. 100+hrs grinding. It looks great now, we'll see how it wears.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

kdpaint said:


> Yeah, what's up with the idea that acid etching provides a decent surface for garage (or almost any) floor coatings? Or that garage floor kits actually work? Or "garage paint?" Yikes. Time for the master class...


In my experience acid etching only works if the Crete is already rough finished. If its smooth, acid usually won't do the job. You can't go wrong with mechanical grinding. It's just expensive and time consuming.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

NACE said:


> It looks like a flooring class would be a great thing for this group. Too many myths about products, prep, and application regarding floors. Any ideas about doing a class?


BM is having one in MA April 10th, We am signed up but now not sure we can make it, we just landed 2 big jobs on top of what we already have this month.


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## Andyman (Feb 21, 2009)

No offense but I'm tired of painters listing epoxy floors as a service they perform. Epoxy flooring is too complicated for most painters.

ShieldCrete is an inferior garage floor coating. Acid etching is not sufficient for adhesion. Etching is like painting latex over oil enamel without abrading.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

joshmays1976 said:


> In my experience acid etching only works if the Crete is already rough finished. If its smooth, acid usually won't do the job. You can't go wrong with mechanical grinding. It's just expensive and time consuming.


You are right. I never bother with acid, and just diamond grind. I have seen many jobs my old boss did with acid fail. Even ones that should have been ok. The weak link was the etch. Its more expensive to do it again!


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## NACE (May 16, 2008)

cdpainting said:


> BM is having one in MA April 10th, We am signed up but now not sure we can make it, we just landed 2 big jobs on top of what we already have this month.


I taught that class with those guys for 10 years. Tell Don V I said hi.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Where do you go to find a class. I've been doing a lot of garage floors lately and now you guys have me nervous.


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## Construguia (Apr 7, 2013)

*Concrete repair*

Not sure if this can help, but here you can find some great tips to make durable concrete repairs and extend the life of the surface.
Let me know what you think! :yes:


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## TrueColors (Jul 30, 2010)

Urethane top coat for sure! It has excellent UV protection.
Maybe let it cure for a while also befor driving a vehicle in.


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

Wish they had classes around my area. It's a good thing to learn and get into to do it right. Lots of people like the look and the cost of the raw material really isn't that much for a typical garage.


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## Andrew LB (Sep 3, 2013)

GusPrice said:


> Totally agree with Wolfgang.
> I do a couple of garage floors a month. You just need to make the customer aware of the limitations in advance - "if you've been out for a long or fast drive leave the car in the drive for a wee bit, let the tires cool down and your floor will keep looking good for a long long time" if you warn them and they ignore you, you're being called for chargeable maintenance not to repair something you messed up.


Exactly. I'll guarantee the HO drives like a maniac, doesn't take it easy when nearing home, parks it and shuts it off. I spent the better part of two decades wrenching on cars and people treat even very expensive cars like crap, and if they treat their cars that way, i guarantee the same goes for their garage floor. A smart car owner always slows it down for the last bit on the way home from "spirited' driving to let the turbo, oil, tires, brakes, etc all cool down first. I can't tell you how many people have warped brake rotors by putting on a parking brake after not letting the rotors cool down first.


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## wiegmanconcrete (Sep 19, 2013)

Providing a garage floor coating of some sort helps protect the concrete from damage. Prior to sealing the garage floor, concrete should be brushed and cleaned thoroughly. Otherwise, stains will be trapped in the concrete for years to come. Resurfacing the area may be more efficient for some floors than removing a stain, then resealing the floor. Even well-sealed floors will be stained if a mess is left unattended. Some garage chemicals will eat through a beautiful, sealed garage floor in a matter of hours.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

We always tell people no parking in the garage for 7 days, if they drive more than 30 minutes home from work let the tires cool down for the first 30 days, since we started using Corotech System we have not had any issues (except a home owner spilling gas on his freshly coated floor)


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## Roof Cleaning (Jun 29, 2011)

This isn't the xylene based H&C?

i looked up the product and it says you mix it. Never used this stuff and now I'm scared of garage floors!

Been using H&C, but the xylene stuff in the red can. We acid etch the floor with muriatic and or soda flakes, run the hydro scrubber over it a few times, then roll it on. Never had a problem with it.

All these gc flip homes we have been doing call for grey xylene based garage floor coating on the work order. I have been using H&C xylene in the red 5 gallon can.

Sorry for your troubles Repaint, garage looks real nice tho.


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## Roof Cleaning (Jun 29, 2011)

@Jmayspaint- that looks unreal, like a sheet of glass..


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## Ritzy (Mar 7, 2021)

Repaint Florida said:


> Here's the deal a few months ago we did a garage floor with H&C Shield-Crete Epoxy Concrete Garage Floor coating from the local SW store
> 
> We also painted the exterior ( 2 stories ) with Durations and have done 20 plus jobs for their friends with 1 being a picture on our box truck so keeping them happy is VERY important
> 
> ...


I did my basement with this product too. It’s pretty large and it turned yellow in areas. The rep came over, gave me a few gallons to appease me and tried to tell me that the floor may not have been prepared correctly. It’s all bs. It’s strictly garbage.


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