# Noticeable seams



## nogg (Aug 23, 2007)

I hung this two weeks ago.I think the name of the product was Ronald Redding.I was suspect of it when I left the day of install but was hopeful after drying out that the seams would be acceptable.Any experience similar to this out there?


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Been awhile since I did paper installations so I should probably just leave this to the paper guys, but I'm curious, is this a textured paper and did you use a roller on the seams?


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

Type of paper, vinyl, paper, etc? What paste used? Does it have a pattern, or could it be reverse hung?


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## nogg (Aug 23, 2007)

ProWallGuy said:


> Type of paper, vinyl, paper, etc? What paste used? Does it have a pattern, or could it be reverse hung?


It's paper,I used Romans pro 880 and it is random match and was reverse hung per instructions.also all were the same run.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

880 has been known to stain some pulps. Non-wovens are especially susceptible. Are you sure this was not a non-woven? The last Redding I hung (a product of York) was a non-woven. Most of York designs are now printed on n-w substrate. 

with that Redding, I colored the first bolt ends with guache. It seeped into the substrate and discolored about 1/8 inch in. I had an interesting time fixing that :whistling2:

point being, with the combination of 880 and a lesser quality non-woven, this may be the result. 

Did the directions say to "paste the wall" ? And if so, did you? If it is a "paste the wall" product and you pasted the paper with 880, there's your problem

to test my theory, place some dry pieces next to each other and see if there is any dis-coloration. If not, paste the wall with something like 838 (definitely NOT 234) or even cellulose and dry hang.


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

Yeah, I don't recall ever seeing a Ronald Redding wallcovering that was a true _paper_.


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## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

I think it's one of those where you have to trim the edges to make it look even.
Either trim it wet or dry or double cut.


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

ProWallGuy said:


> Yeah, I don't recall ever seeing a Ronald Redding wallcovering that was a true _paper_.


PWG, (or Arch) can you define what you mean by "true paper'? I can identify the non-woven material, although I'm not really sure what type of material it is made from. Paper-backed vinyl is easily identified also. I've been seeing more of what you refer to as "pulp" lately, is that what you mean by true paper? Here is a picture of a roll of Redding, typical of what I've been hanging lately. It is very thin and definitely paper of some sort. Thanks for any enlightenment I can glean from you guys.....


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

to me, "true paper" is a pure pulp with little, if any, acrylic coating. Like a Farrow & Ball, and other "Brit Pulps" before they started using non-wovens.

Osborne and Little, Cole & Son, Colefax & Fowler all used to be pure pulps, but now they are offering some non-wovens. 

I hung a Schumacher the other week that was a thin pulp paper (reminded me of a Hinson) - it was untrimmed and even called for a liner - which I can't remember ever seeing for a Schumacher - well not since the early 70's

I would never be able to tell what a paper is by a picture.


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

Thanks, I figured the picture was better than 1,000 words. I would have brought it by your house for you to take a look but it was getting kinda late.....and I don't have time to change the oil in the van.


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

I would bet it is a vinyl-_coated_ paper.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Gwarel,

You say you can identify a non-woven. Can I assume you do that (besides the obvious way of reading the label) by trying to tear it ? It tears easily in one direction and not the other? Non wovens also expand very little when pasted. It is advertised as being "dimensionally stable", but it DOES expand by about an 1/16 to 1/8 of an inch. Also, cuts have to be completed, it you try to "snap" away a piece with like 1/32" uncompleted trim cut, havoc ensues. 

The same rip test applies for a pulp, but it tears easily in any direction and one can "snap rip" a non completed trim 

both vinyl and acrylic coated papers will be resistant to moisture absorption from the surface. And we all know how a paper backed vinyl reacts.


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

What exactly is the non-woven material made of? I have not tried to tear it in one direction or the other like you have described but I will check that out next time I hang it. I do know what you're saying about the 'snap rip', it is a very sturdy material in that sense, and pretty easy to identify just from the unique look and feel. I don't see many labels that identify the type of material, which is why I'm interested in the classifications you use and their definitions.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

regular pulp paper is made with pulp fibers that are laid in one direction. Non-wovens use a high percentage of recycled fibers of the same type paper is made from (wood, cotton, etc) and they are shorter. They are laid in random direction, thus the dimensional stability and the difficulty in ripping. 

Another characteristic of a non-woven is that it "breathes" better than a regular "woven" (misnomer) pulp. This is supposed to prevent moisture trapping and help resists mold and mildew. BUT what it does do instead is allow the paste to migrate to the surface easier and stain or blush the surface. This is why many of us will not use 880 or 234. It does help to paste the wall and allow the paste to tack up. But if you water those pastes down and paste the paper, you are inviting blushing on the surface. 

Non-woven paper is also used for air and liquid filters.


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

I always assumed the non-woven term was to differentiate from the osnaburg type backing.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

I have very little experience with osnaburg backing, but isn't it used to back commercial vinyl?

from what little I know, I thought that commercial vinyl is either canvas backed, osnaburg backed, or that nightmare stuff made from recycled plastic soda bottles. 

If PWG isn't out partying too hard, he could shed some light on this.


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

Osnaburg is used for commercial vinyl. I hang some on occasion for a painting contractor on commercial jobs. There are some types of VWC that are not backed with the osnaburg fabric, but with a non-woven backing (at least that's what I think it is). The non-woven type does not do well with 880, I have much better results with strippable clay (774).


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Gwarel said:


> Osnaburg is used for commercial vinyl. I hang some on occasion for a painting contractor on commercial jobs. There are some types of VWC that are not backed with the osnaburg fabric, but with a non-woven backing (at least that's what I think it is). The non-woven type does not do well with 880, I have much better results with strippable clay (774).


there are other issues with 880 and commercial vinyl. Off gassing. (no not what I do) Tiny bubbles appear all over and they are next to impossible to chase.

Yes 774 is good. The few canvas backed vinyls I've hung, Iv'e used that or 234, I like the 774 better. PWG likes the 234. Vanilla and strawberry.


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

I have only had the gassing problems a few times, although I've read about others who have had nightmares. Out here in No Man's Land my resources are limited to mostly Roman adhesives, I've learned to use what's available. I could probably get my local paint store to find the 234 (is that Dynamite?), and I could try it if I thought it would make a huge difference in the results. Thanks for your input, sometimes I feel like I live on a paperhanger's island.........


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

If you get a chance to try 234 (yes Dynamite), do so. 
PWG loves it, I hate it. You should try it for yourself.

"paperhanger's island" "No man's Land" ????????????

I was curious where you were from (when you mentioned stopping by). The only clue I had (besides asking :whistling2: ) is your IP. It says Johnson City. One of the nations' top hangers (or so he tells me  ) lives there, Jim Yates. I wonder where he gets his paste - well prolly has wheat and cellulose shipped from Lee, Mass.

There's a hardware store near me that is affiliated with Do it Best. I was super surprised and happy when I discovered Dynamite products on their shelves - unfortunately only gallons, BUT it was no problem to order 5's.


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

He would say that.......:jester:


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## two fingers (Sep 28, 2014)

Did you double cut and not clean?

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