# Stix before Cabinet Coat Or Something Else?



## Connor77

I am in the process of painting some kitchen cabinets that are in good condition. They are pickled maple and I'm painting them a soft gray color with Cabinet Coat. My questions are:

1) Should I prime the cabinets with Stix? They have a factory finish on them (kind of shiny). I have TSP'd the cabinets with a green pad and will lightly rinse them before doing anything else. I'm a bit concerned that the Stix will not spray well or lay down well because of how thick it is. It also says to not thin it. I have a Titan 440 impact with various tips including fine finish tips to spray with by the way. 

2) Should I just lightly sand the cabinets and put multiple coats of the Cabinet Coat on with the first coat obviously acting as a primer? I have foam rolled one cabinet door that I cleaned and lightly sanded and the Cabinet Coat appears to be adhering well. Another reason why I'm debating if priming is really going to help a lot or will it just add to my workload.

3) Use another primer? I see people using spray can primer but I wonder if this is a good idea. I'd really like the cabinets to look like they have a factory finish.

Thoughts? Thanks in advance.


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## Connor77

Bueller? Anyone?


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## George Z

We used Stix with good success on similar situations.
Both Stix and Cabinet coat are Urethane Modified Acrylics
but I am not sure if they have similar bonding qualities.
If someone tested or tried that let me know.


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## DeanV

I just did my own cabinets with Cabinet Coat. Doors were primer. Frames applied direct. After cleaning and sanding for both surfaces. We also used CabinetCoat direct to convert lacquer trim once. Adhered fine so far in both uses.


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## ogre

Perfect situation for stix. Lays down great and sands really smooth. I use this process regularly. The only drawback with stix is block. When i have tannins coming through or any other stains i use BIN.


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## Damon T

Actually if you read the label there is no need to prime in most cases. Cabinet coat adheres almost as well as stix. You will want to rinse more than lightly however if you use TSP. You will want to rinse very very well. And then do a sanding with 180 or 220 grit
Cabinet coat is supposed to be stain blocking if you give the first coat six hours to dry. I have had microcraters appear in it a couple of times. When the finish dried you could barely make them out if you looked at the right angle in the light. Otherwise they were not discernible. However it looks really freaky when it is wet with those little craters all over the place


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## Connor77

Thanks for your feedback Damon...


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## DeanV

I got a few of those fisheye craters as well. HVLP application. I have not noticed it brushing though. We just brushed out some steel door casings with it as well. Stock white took 1 coat UMA primer and three coats to cover. Still iffy in spots. Never had that before over beige. 


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## Connor77

I have started painting the carcass of the cabinets with a foam roller and small sash brush. The Cabinet Coat has leveled beautifully despite the fact that when I was rolling them I was concerned that there would be roller marks. The side of the cabinet is the largest section I've done so far and it looks like a factory finish. Very happy with the Cabinet Coat product. I'm still debating if I should spray all the doors - it would be faster for sure but I have much less of a concern based on how well this product levels. 
Thanks for everyone's input.


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## Damon T

DeanV said:


> I got a few of those fisheye craters as well. HVLP application. I have not noticed it brushing though. We just brushed out some steel door casings with it as well. Stock white took 1 coat UMA primer and three coats to cover. Still iffy in spots. Never had that before over beige.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I've never had the craters when brush or roll. I have with both airless and hvlp.
Bummer about 4 coats and still not 100%! Maybe have them pump
More white in it next time. 
We had a store do what's called L4 for a gallon of breakthrough. I think it's 4 drops of umber. Helps the white cover and still looks white when it's applied.


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## Connor77

I have had a similar experience to what DeanV had. Coverage even with 3 coats is not adequate and the bonding quality hasn't been acceptable to me despite sanding with 220 and cleaning both with TSP and soap and water. I will finish the balance of the cabinets by priming them with Stix and then see if 3 coats of Cabinet Coat will be enough having used primer first.


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## Damon T

The bonding takes time. The first time I used it I tested some shelves the next day. It could scratch right off. I freaked out and called my rep. She told me to chill and the adhesion would improve over the next few days, which it did. 
You may be having adhesion issues due to using TSP and not rinsing thoroughly enough. Many paint companies suggest not using Tsp due to the residue it can leave.


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## AlphaWolf

I find it interesting, how same product in different peoples hands, have a large impact in final product. ME i have tried stix and cabinet Coat. I dislike both. Personal preference. Stix primer, for me did not stick well. Yes some spots bonded well some not really at all. Tannins and burn though every where. Also dry time to slow for me personally. Cabinet coat, Dry time to slow and over all hardness and durability was just not there for me to feel comfortable. Now as far as prep i find TSP just silly waste of time and extra work. Me this is what i do in every step. Refer to pictures i have done in my album to see cabinets and fireplaces i have done same way. 

1. Clean with biodegradable de-greaser. rinse with wet rag. Sand with fine-med pads.
2 Prime every painted surface with Shellac. Sand with fine pads (reason drys in under 10 min stop burn though. If nasty burn come through just give it another mist. sands perfectly smooth to a powder. Sticks to ANY THING. Bond harder in 10 min than stix does in 30 days imo.)
3 Top coat with 1 of 2 products depending on customer needs. Top product Pre-Cat Waterborne epoxy. 5-10 times harder and more washable than cabinet coat. Also 100 times more chemical resistant. All Surface Enamel (any sheen they want) Goes very hard. Harder than cabinet coat imo. Drys to the touch in 30 min or so. You can spray your doors flip them 30-45 min later. 
4 reinstall everything make profit. 

Is my system perfect? For me yes, for you maybe not. There is no best anything in the painting world. A lot has to do with personal preference. I hope this helps you out. Side note i hate using latex, to just turn around with oil or shellac to spot prime bleed through. Why not just use the Shellac from start to finish. Yes smells more but dry in 10 min and no more than 20-30 min all smell is gone as it cures so fast.


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## ddelaney

Connor77 said:


> I am in the process of painting some kitchen cabinets that are in good condition. They are pickled maple and I'm painting them a soft gray color with Cabinet Coat. My questions are:
> 
> 1) Should I prime the cabinets with Stix? They have a factory finish on them (kind of shiny). I have TSP'd the cabinets with a green pad and will lightly rinse them before doing anything else. I'm a bit concerned that the Stix will not spray well or lay down well because of how thick it is. It also says to not thin it. I have a Titan 440 impact with various tips including fine finish tips to spray with by the way.
> 
> 2) Should I just lightly sand the cabinets and put multiple coats of the Cabinet Coat on with the first coat obviously acting as a primer? I have foam rolled one cabinet door that I cleaned and lightly sanded and the Cabinet Coat appears to be adhering well. Another reason why I'm debating if priming is really going to help a lot or will it just add to my workload.
> 
> 3) Use another primer? I see people using spray can primer but I wonder if this is a good idea. I'd really like the cabinets to look like they have a factory finish.
> 
> Thoughts? Thanks in advance.


I just did a big job of switching over the wood to color. Used stix for all of it. The pro classic (white) on top of base,crown, casings didn't seem to cover well. Did kitchen cabinets in BM satin black. Covered great for those. I sprayed 95% of the stix through my graco 9.5 with 5 needle. To great. Actually seemed to cover better sprayed as opposed to brushed/whizzed on. 
Homeowners didn't want any part of an oil based stain. Spraying that saved me a lot of time and much less
sanding then cover coat.


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## Jazz_Painter

AlphaWolf said:


> I find it interesting, how same product in different peoples hands, have a large impact in final product. ME i have tried stix and cabinet Coat. I dislike both. Personal preference. Stix primer, for me did not stick well. Yes some spots bonded well some not really at all. Tannins and burn though every where. Also dry time to slow for me personally. Cabinet coat, Dry time to slow and over all hardness and durability was just not there for me to feel comfortable. Now as far as prep i find TSP just silly waste of time and extra work. Me this is what i do in every step. Refer to pictures i have done in my album to see cabinets and fireplaces i have done same way.
> 
> 1. Clean with biodegradable de-greaser. rinse with wet rag. Sand with fine-med pads.
> 2 Prime every painted surface with Shellac. Sand with fine pads (reason drys in under 10 min stop burn though. If nasty burn come through just give it another mist. sands perfectly smooth to a powder. Sticks to ANY THING. Bond harder in 10 min than stix does in 30 days imo.)
> 3 Top coat with 1 of 2 products depending on customer needs. Top product Pre-Cat Waterborne epoxy. 5-10 times harder and more washable than cabinet coat. Also 100 times more chemical resistant. All Surface Enamel (any sheen they want) Goes very hard. Harder than cabinet coat imo. Drys to the touch in 30 min or so. You can spray your doors flip them 30-45 min later.
> 4 reinstall everything make profit.
> 
> Is my system perfect? For me yes, for you maybe not. There is no best anything in the painting world. A lot has to do with personal preference. I hope this helps you out. Side note i hate using latex, to just turn around with oil or shellac to spot prime bleed through. Why not just use the Shellac from start to finish. Yes smells more but dry in 10 min and no more than 20-30 min all smell is gone as it cures so fast.


Are you using shellac based primer like Bin or just shellac?

Best regards!


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## Connor77

Damon, again thanks for your feedback. I'm noticing on the cabinets that have had more time to dry/cure that the Cabinet Coat is becoming much harder and not nearly as prone to being able to scratch off. I did the same thing you did - I called INSLX and the guy I spoke to said it really needs 15 days to cure. I'm painting in a cool (not cold) basement so this is contributing to the longer cure time needed. I'll need to find another kind of cleaner since I don't want the risk of TSP leaving anything behind.


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## AlphaWolf

Jazz_Painter said:


> Are you using shellac based primer like Bin or just shellac?
> 
> Best regards!


Dont matter too be honest. BIN Sherwin Williams EXT. There are lots of Shellacs on the market, AS long as its sure shellac and you have to clean it with methyl Hydrate your fine. I agree with the poster above me Cab Coat will get harder in time. But myself and home owner done have that. If in 1 week i can scratch off Cab Coat thats unacceptable. Pre-Cat or All Surface Enamel Cant be scratched off in under 4 hours let alone a week, Overall Ease of use and dry time i find ASE hard to beat. You can touch and flip your doors in an hour,


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## mug

I tried some zinsser water based primer sealer (not the 123) sprays nice thinned a bit and was sandable in an hour. Sanded to a fine powder. Bonded well. 15 bucks a gallon at the box store.


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## Repaint Florida

For me:

Binks Comet 4/12 air assisted with a binks AA1500 gun

+ 

Breakthrough

= 

solid bond, fast dry, beautiful finish 

if you've never tried breakthrough give it a try, we paint warehouse floors that get fork lift traffic so i think the cabinets can hold up pretty good

we're easily doing 12 + cabinets jobs a month and everyone loves them

again my system 
http://www.painttalk.com/f2/kitchen-cabinet-painting-orlando-fl-34377/

our cabinets business is growing so fast we're looking at renting more warehouse space as we're out growing our shop just with cabinets


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## Damon T

That is really cool to hear Repaint! Glad for your success! Are you still doing all the frames by hand? Or do you guys spray some boxes depending on job? It sure is a lot of masking to spray the boxes on site but they do look nice. Especially islands and other areas with larger sides exposed. Your thoughts?


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## DeanV

IMHO, doing boxes by hand and spraying doors offsite is the best bang for your buck. Especially if wall and ceiling painting is not happening. 


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## Jimithing616

Repaint Florida said:


> For me:
> 
> Binks Comet 4/12 air assisted with a binks AA1500 gun
> 
> +
> 
> Breakthrough
> 
> =
> 
> solid bond, fast dry, beautiful finish
> 
> if you've never tried breakthrough give it a try, we paint warehouse floors that get fork lift traffic so i think the cabinets can hold up pretty good
> 
> we're easily doing 12 + cabinets jobs a month and everyone loves them
> 
> again my syste
> 
> our cabinets business is growing so fast we're looking at renting more warehouse space as we're out growing our shop just with cabinets




I know this is a old thread, but, are you using any primer with the breakthrough?

Are u just using deglosser, sanding? Just curious. 

I’d love to know

Thanks


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## sayn3ver

I'm pretty sure that was the orginal 250voc or higher version of breakthrough. 

I was told by my ppg dealer last time I was there that they were going to the 50 voc version everywhere now and discontinuing the 250 and 150 even in states that it was legal so ppg could simplify production. 

I never had a chance to use the original version. For me, if the cabinets are used, it's not worth the risk of not priming. Cooking Grease and oil, Murphy's oil or silicone based cleaners are all possible on a set of used kitchen cabinets. Even a thorough cleaning may leave problem areas. 

I would go with bin in that case. 

If we are talking build in cabinets, bathroom cabinets, laundry room cabinets away from grease and you want to take the word of a customer that a silicone based cleaner or Murphy's oil was never used then I'd say the low voc breakthrough formula should work fine for adhesion. I don't know if the final film is tough enough for cabinets vs the old high voc formula. 

Ymmv. 




Jimithing616 said:


> Repaint Florida said:
> 
> 
> 
> For me:
> 
> Binks Comet 4/12 air assisted with a binks AA1500 gun
> 
> +
> 
> Breakthrough
> 
> =
> 
> solid bond, fast dry, beautiful finish
> 
> if you've never tried breakthrough give it a try, we paint warehouse floors that get fork lift traffic so i think the cabinets can hold up pretty good
> 
> we're easily doing 12 + cabinets jobs a month and everyone loves them
> 
> again my syste
> 
> our cabinets business is growing so fast we're looking at renting more warehouse space as we're out growing our shop just with cabinets
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know this is a old thread, but, are you using any primer with the breakthrough?
> 
> Are u just using deglosser, sanding? Just curious.
> 
> I’d love to know
> 
> Thanks
Click to expand...


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