# Thick mural tips



## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

Sometimes ya get these murals that are very non-porous, thick canvas backed vinyl.

These are tips in case ya ever get skeered.

Here's a sample job of that sort:


Picture 1- Of the prior installation's bubbling.











Picture 2- The wall after the material was removed. The problem was mainly his use of a latex paint primer. It adhered sporadically and spaces in-between couldn't hold as the material dried and tightened.











Picture 3- The process to repair the wall was to float the wall twice. There were complaints of dust that the prior installer created. Dust isn't necessary if you float until smooth and then use a wet rag to get rid of any ridges instead of using sandpaper.



After the wall is completely dry, coat the wall with a worthy sealer. I used ZINSSER ALLPRIME but there are others like DRAWTITE. This should be brushed on but if a roller is used it should be worked in and smoothed with a brush before it dries. This should cure overnight.











Installation instructions: Paste the wall with Roman Pro-880 or equivalent. This is a clear non-staining adhesive. After applying the material to the wall it will appear smooth immediately. During the drying process air bubbles will appear as the moisture becomes a gas behind the material. While wet, the material is pliable and non-porous. Patiently smooth the bubbles from behind the surface for the next hour or until the bubbles quit appearing. Final drying of the material is when the material contracts and conforms to the surface. This is why the wall has to be smooth and the sealer needs to be secure to the wall surface. 

picture 4- finished section showing smoothness.












Just sayin'


:cowboy:


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## caulktheline (Feb 10, 2011)

Underdog said:


> The process to repair the wall was to float the wall twice. There were complaints of dust that the prior installer created. Dust isn't necessary if you float until smooth and then use a wet rag to get rid of any ridges instead of using sandpaper.


That's what I'm talkin bout.


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## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

That there is slickern catguts on a door knob !:thumbsup:


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## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

caulktheline said:


> That's what I'm talkin bout.


 
I had to learn when I worked in a house with a grand piano and sooo much wood furniture and floors.



Scotiadawg said:


> That there is slickern catguts on a door knob !:thumbsup:


I just wasn't sure how many people knew you have to nurse these things for a long time after installation. I've left before and let bubbles appear afterward.


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## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

Underdog said:


> I had to learn when I worked in a house with a grand piano and sooo much wood furniture and floors.
> 
> 
> 
> I just wasn't sure how many people knew you have to nurse these things for a long time after installation. I've left before and let bubbles appear afterward.


Naw i stopped nursin long ago. well cept this one time at :blink: oh never mind:no:


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

If you don't want bubbles, don't use 880. The majority of my work is installing graphics like this, and I generally use either 234 or strippable clay.


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## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

ProWallGuy said:


> If you don't want bubbles, don't use 880. The majority of my work is installing graphics like this, and I generally use either 234 or strippable clay.


Huh.. ya know that kinda makes sense.
I used to use clay all the time.
Hated it because it made a rash on my arm.
Not familiar with 234.


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

I just used 880 the other day on a mural, and it bubbled all to hell. Only reason I used it was because I was doing a demo at the PDCA convention here in StL, and Romans wanted to comp me the paste for it, so I obliged. And rather than clean my machine for the mural the next day, I just rolled with it. And fought it the whole job. They eventually went down, but I didn't like it one bit.

This is 234:


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

I like this for a strippable clay:


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

And for those who don't know- that Zin AllPrime is Gardz relabeled for paint stores ( so they don't have to compete with the box stores)


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

BrushJockey said:


> And for those who don't know- that Zin AllPrime is Gardz relabeled for paint stores ( so they don't have to compete with the box stores)


And I just learned something today.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

I'll weigh in on the side against 880 for canvas backed vinyl - it's reputation for off-gassing is greater than a baked bean and cabbage dinner. 

I would prefer 234 if I could readily find it (I think I have found a source that can order it)

I HAVE used 838 and have not gotten bubbles, but I am not 100% satisfied with the adhesion.


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## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

daArch said:


> I'll weigh in on the side against 880 for canvas backed vinyl - it's reputation for off-gassing is greater than a baked bean and cabbage dinner.
> 
> I would prefer 234 if I could readily find it (I think I have found a source that can order it)
> 
> I HAVE used 838 and have not gotten bubbles, but I am not 100% satisfied with the adhesion.


Man, I wish I had found you guys years ago.
I wasn't really sure what my problem with 880 was since others didn't seem to share my concerns.

Now 234 has Dynamite on the label. Did that used to be C-11?

I may have to reacquaint myself with clay.


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

Underdog said:


> Now 234 has Dynamite on the label. Did that used to be C-11?


880 sucks. Its only saving grace is it has the longest open time of any paste out there, so if that is needed, that's what you use.

234 has a multi-colored past. When I first used it, is was called Evans 234. It was also Porter's (PPG) house clear labeled VersaTite. The Evans changed to Gibson-Homans 234, then Gardner Gibson 234. I do believe it is the ICI house clear, but that may have changed. I don't know if it was ever called C-11. You guys are really old, and that just may be before my time. :jester:


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## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

ProWallGuy said:


> 880 sucks. Its only saving grace is it has the longest open time of any paste out there, so if that is needed, that's what you use.
> 
> 234 has a multi-colored past. When I first used it, is was called Evans 234. It was also Porter's (PPG) house clear labeled VersaTite. The Evans changed to Gibson-Homans 234, then Gardner Gibson 234. I do believe it is the ICI house clear, but that may have changed. I don't know if it was ever called C-11. You guys are really old, and that just may be before my time. :jester:


I need to learn to Google before I post in ignorance.
C-11 is an ultra clear. Like cellulose.
http://www.gardner-gibson.com/linedetails.aspx?id=82

I guess Dynamite is a generic term.

Hey, I would bet on age and treachery over youth and vigor any day.


:cowboy:


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

ProWallGuy said:


> And I just learned something today.



Further edumacation- The AllPrime line has also 123 and coverstain. Look at the secondary name.


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## Scotiadawg (Dec 5, 2011)

Underdog said:


> I need to learn to Google before I post in ignorance.
> C-11 is an ultra clear. Like cellulose.
> http://www.gardner-gibson.com/linedetails.aspx?id=82
> 
> ...


Hey, I think you might be hanging with Bill too much !:yes::whistling2:


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

I used to get the c-11 years ago when I lived in Atlanta, I think it was a Shur-stik product. I don't know if it still exists but I think it was a pre-mixed cellulose and it worked great on string and other delicates.


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