# Peeling paint on new drywall



## Star123 (Jun 16, 2016)

Any ideas what is causing our paint to peel?
Construction of our home finished August 2015. It was primed in June and painted (3 coats of acrylic latex) in July. 

The home is 2400 sqf on two levels and and every singe square foot peels off. It has almost been a year and it's the same as when we moved in.... Not adhering at all. 
They've peeled away a lot of our first level to start over; however, re priming and painting does not stick even when trying a different latex primer. The primer And paint still come off. 
Oil based primer seems to work better, but would like to know why this is happening!! 
Thanks for your thoughts!


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Normally, since this is a site for professionals we don't allow homeowners to post questions here. But this one is sort of intriguing - AND you are really experiencing a major issue here - so I will allow it to remain open for a limited amount of time. Anyone wishing to chime in, do it sooner rather than later.

Also, I'm very curious, what does the company that originally painted it have to say?


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

You're quick RH, I was about to throw the chains on it. Carry on...


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Well, normally I would have as well - but I'm in a unusually generous mood today. That, or getting soft in my old age (63 is like 104 in mod years).


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## Painter-Aaron (Jan 17, 2013)

I saw this and I was like crap hopefully they don't shut it down before hearing some good answers. And then I came back and saw three responses and none answered the questions. 

Was the drywall by chance wet at all at application?


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Sanding dust left on the surface can cause that. Especially if the paint was sprayed and not back rolled. Does there seem to be powder on the back side of the peeled pieces? 


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

All I can think of is excessive dust on the drywall. And, like JMays just said, the primer not being back rolled if sprayed.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

The dust issue is a good one. My other thoughts are;
1. Some bad drywall was installed. 
2. The drywall absorbed moisture somewhere during the transportation/install process. 
3. Or, that the primer coat wasn't fully set before the three topcoats were applied.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Do you know what brand of paint they used? I recall seeing pictures of a certain brand doing something similar to that.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

It could be dust but what are the odds that there was dust too much dust on every square inch of the house? I'd think if it were dust related there would be some areas that would still stick.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Another possibility might be over thinned joint compound. Certain types of topping compound have a fairly low percentage of binders to make sanding easier. Adding too much water can essentially destabilize the compound to the point that it's perpetually crumbly. 

Rub your fingers or a rag over an area of the compoud. You should be able to wipe all the dust off and get to a stable surface. If it seems like dust just won't stop coming off, could be that. 

Looking at the pic of the unpainted wallboard, it looks like there is dust on most of it. Over sanding can worsen the surface dust problem. When the wallboard paper around the compound gets "fuzzed" up from sanding, it creates a lot of nooks and crannies for dust to collect in. 

Does that pic look kinda funny to you guys too, or am I seeing things? 


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## AngieM (Apr 13, 2016)

I've seen peeling paint on drywall before when my customer used a box store paint from Lowe's. I don't remember what brand but do remember being shocked that could happen on primed drywall. I'd be interested in knowing what property in the paint was missing that prevented it from adhering to clean, dry, dull substrate. Thanks for allowing this thread.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

Star123 said:


> Any ideas what is causing our paint to peel?
> Construction of our home finished August 2015. It was primed in June and painted (3 coats of acrylic latex) in July.
> 
> The home is 2400 sqf on two levels and and every singe square foot peels off. It has almost been a year and it's the same as when we moved in.... Not adhering at all.
> ...


Call the painting company, find out what product they used, get a paint rep from that company and run tests.

It almost appears that they used a non self priming finish, and used that instead of a primer.
See if bullseye 123 will bond.

I think like previous comments dust might be playing a part, but there is a lot more to this than some dust


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

Jmayspaint said:


> Another possibility might be over thinned joint compound. Certain types of topping compound have a fairly low percentage of binders to make sanding easier. Adding too much water can essentially destabilize the compound to the point that it's perpetually crumbly.
> 
> Rub your fingers or a rag over an area of the compoud. You should be able to wipe all the dust off and get to a stable surface. If it seems like dust just won't stop coming off, could be that.
> 
> ...


What I find unusual in that photo are all the vertical mud lines. Not just where taping was done, but where only screws or nails were used. Shouldn't those areas be small, disconnected circles? I'm not used to seeing such a mud pattern, and the additional sanding needed there would increase the chance of excessive dust. It may not be the cause of the peeling, but is it not an unusual mudding/sanding job?


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

SemiproJohn said:


> What I find unusual in that photo are all the vertical mud lines. Not just where taping was done, but where only screws or nails were used. Shouldn't those areas be small, disconnected circles? I'm not used to seeing such a mud pattern, and the additional sanding needed there would increase the chance of excessive dust. It may not be the cause of the peeling, but is it not an unusual mudding job?


That's typical mudding I see around here. It's a lot faster for the drywall guys to make one pass with the knife than start and stop on each screw.


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## Boco (May 18, 2013)

I would call up a home inspector and have then check it out. My first guess would be that the house is not able to breathe due to improper insulation. Could be a few things such as no gable vents, ridge vents, or even bathroom ducts. Where are you located?


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Rbriggs82 said:


> You're quick RH, I was about to throw the chains on it. Carry on...



When I saw the first post I got all excited and thought "Oh! I finally get to mod something!". Was just about to try and remember where those canned responses were. But then I scrolled down and now I'd just feel like a jerk doing so.

I wanna ban somebody or move a thread or edit something dammit! Maybe I'll just randomly pick someone or something.

It's been a while.


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## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

Was the drywall and drywall mud made in China? Did you prime and paint the walls yourself or was is done by someone else? Dust seems like a logical answer but the fact that the paint isn't sticking anywhere makes me think that something else maybe be the culprit. Even with Dust on the walls some paint would still absorb into the drywall. You may want to seek legal counsel.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Where have i seen this before? Oh yeah! On my Marquee test board! No actual primer or a crappy primer. Either that or a "paint and primer" was used without any actual primer. I see it a lot more than most people on this forum would believe. Basically because once the actual painting is done they are working somewhere else. Also if any dust was left on the drywall it would do that, but usually that is not through the entire house. I would say to check with the painter and ask him straight out "did you use a DRYWALL primer or did you just use the paint and primer?" I think that is the problem. Those paint and primer products say to use them on "properly prepared substrates", and none of them consider un-primed drywall as properly prepared. You can almost always get them to peel with a small amount of effort. Also the box store brands tend to be a little rubbery even when they are cured, a result of them being made of cheaper resins, which makes them pretty easy to peel compared to a premium paint that cures to a much harder film.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

I wonder if it's as much fun to peel the paint off of walls like that as it is when I peel it out of my plastic work bucket? If you are the HO, or the guy who painted it, I'm guessing, "no".


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Wildbill7145 said:


> When I saw the first post I got all excited and thought "Oh! I finally get to mod something!". Was just about to try and remember where those canned responses were. But then I scrolled down and now I'd just feel like a jerk doing so.
> 
> I wanna ban somebody or move a thread or edit something dammit! Maybe I'll just randomly pick someone or something.
> 
> It's been a while.


PM me and I'll give you some names. :shifty:


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## Star123 (Jun 16, 2016)

Thanks for letting this post continue! I am really looking for answers at this point and my contractor is doing his best, but obviously wants to be done with this project. 
So, to answer most of the questions here goes:
Yes there is dust on the drywall when the paint is peeled off; therefore, when we peeled a few sections we were careful to clean the area before re priming to test that therory. 
It was a professional painter in Saskatoon sk. They used Dulux paint and Primer.

6 months later we tried Cloverfale and also had the primer tested-came back normal.

We tried guardz brand primer on bare drywall as well as on top of the paint and it almost made it worse.

It could have been painted in humidity since it was in July, but I wouldn't think it'd still have the same issue almost a year later... And since our winters are very cold. I had a moisture test done on the actual drywall and it was dry. 
We are in the process of getting the drywall tested... hopefully that comes up with something. 
Could there be any other underlying issues? 
At this point I don't think it's the paint...
Thanks again for your input!


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

Star123 said:


> Thanks for letting this post continue! I am really looking for answers at this point and my contractor is doing his best, but obviously wants to be done with this project.
> So, to answer most of the questions here goes:
> Yes there is dust on the drywall when the paint is peeled off; therefore, when we peeled a few sections we were careful to clean the area before re priming to test that therory.
> It was a professional painter in Saskatoon sk. They used Dulux paint and Primer.
> ...


What line of paint and primer did they use from Dulux? Believe it or not it makes a world of difference.

I would have the house checked for moisture issues as that's what I see in the second picture.


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## Star123 (Jun 16, 2016)

Okay, I was thinking moisture too. But the inspector checked the actual drywall and it didn't read any moisture. 
Any other tests that I may be able to do to determine moisture? I would think the problem would have solved itself once the paint was peeled off for about a month to let it breathe. But I've tried that and it's still peeling. 
Any environmental factors?


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Did the contractor have someone on his crew do the painting or did he hire in an actual painting company? If he did bring in a painting contractor, what has he had to say as to the cause? 

Regardless, this shouldn't be your issue but one the contractor needs to work out with the individuals who did the sheetrock/finishing and the painter. It needs to be corrected on his dime and time, not yours.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Going to close this thread pretty soon so make em' count.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

RH said:


> Going to close this thread pretty soon so make em' count.


I would like to hear the results plugged what happened


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

I'm shocked that gardz didn't produce satisfying results. If that doesn't do it I'm not sure what will. Something is going on with the mud. It's really odd though that the products tried didn't stick to the paper either though....I'd definitely be getting a hold of the drywall company and the drywall and mud manufactures. Gardz would have been the best solution if it were a minor (dust) adhesion issue. Oil will pent rate also, but that surface is unstable and oil may only provide instant gratification but fail in the long run. 
Sorry you're having this issue. Glad your post wasn't modded (yet), you're lucky your delimma is so rare and intriguing on this forum. Good luck!


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

And how are the ceilings? Same problem?


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## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

I vote for this thread not to be closed. It would be nice to hear back from the OP when the problem is discovered so that we may all learn from this in case it should happen to one of us on a job. I still think it is an issue with the drywall or the mud or a combination of the two and it may not be an isolated issue.


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## Star123 (Jun 16, 2016)

Thanks for all your responses. I agree this is not my issue per se, but my contractor wants to get the job finished so he is ready to prime it with oil.... I feel this is just a bandaid to an underlying problem that will possibly make trouble for us in the future. 
we tested the oil based primer in February and I am noticing it's starting to fail as well. And this post confirmed that my suspicions of that might be real...This is why I'm panicking, this is my brand new home and I should be able to use latex paint that will stick. 
I know you have to close the post so I really appreciate all the help. Hopefully The drywall will come back with something wrong and at least we have an answer. But ripping our home down to the bones doesn't seem appealing either! 
Anyways thanks everyone!


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

He wants to prime in oil to solve HIS problem. Not yours. That is not something that should need to be done under normal standards and procedures. Rerocking sounds un appealing but would eliminate the problem at its source, not put a bandaid on a bleeding artery. Bummer for him. And you. But in the time you've spent dealing with the issues you could've been done with it already and moved on it seems . Get a hold of the drywaller and their suppliers is what I'd do....


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## Boco (May 18, 2013)

Before you rip out any drywall try skim coating a large section with USG allpurpose drywall mudd. Then prime with PPG gripper. If it is a drywall wall problem then you should be able to correct it with a level 5 finish. Also I would find out what type of sheetrock was used. Hopefully it wasn't the junk made in China. Another alternative would be to try a level 5 surfacer instead of primer, but it would have to be done be a pro.


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## Star123 (Jun 16, 2016)

Exactly, i would much rather get it done right. If that means to re rock that's what it means, I completely agree. I just have to convince the drywall er as well (he's seems to want to do the same thing)
the drywall er told me that I will likely never find the problem. And my contractor feels the same way... 
We just spent $700k on a new home that will just be okay until the oil fails... Very frustrating and stressful!


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## Boco (May 18, 2013)

lilpaintchic said:


> He wants to prime in oil to solve HIS problem. Not yours. That is not something that should need to be done under normal standards and procedures. Rerocking sounds un appealing but would eliminate the problem at its source, not put a bandaid on a bleeding artery. Bummer for him. And you. But in the time you've spent dealing with the issues you could've been done with it already and moved on it seems . Get a hold of the drywaller and their suppliers is what I'd do....


 I concur. He may hate you for a few weeks but you will hate him fore ever if he doesn't fix his problem.


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## Star123 (Jun 16, 2016)

Boco said:


> Before you rip out any drywall try skim coating a large section with USG allpurpose drywall mudd. Then prime with PPG gripper. If it is a drywall wall problem then you should be able to correct it with a level 5 finish. Also I would find out what type of sheetrock was used. Hopefully it wasn't the junk made in China. Another alternative would be to try a level 5 surfacer instead of primer, but it would have to be done be a pro.



Okay I will try this first for sure (well I'll get someone else to try it!). Thanks!


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## ttalbon (Aug 6, 2009)

I wonder if the any Pva glue was involved on the drywall. He says its on all the wall so maybe the paint isn't adhering because it can't.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I'm reading that the Gardz, oils, and anything else you've applied over the compromised coating, is not working. That doesn't surprise me if you're not applying it to the bare substrate.

I'm also reading that the Dulux was a primer/finish in one. Failure doesn't surprise me either.

We had a debate here, sometime back, about PVA sealer and it's compatibility with bare joint compound given the joint compound actually contains approximately 3% PVA in its binders. Just enough to form a finish but allowed to be sanded. Dilution of joint compound can compromise that binder.

You may want to start by performing a ph test to make certain you're not too high in alkalinity.


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

Wildbill7145 said:


> When I saw the first post I got all excited and thought "Oh! I finally get to mod something!". Was just about to try and remember where those canned responses were. But then I scrolled down and now I'd just feel like a jerk doing so.
> 
> I wanna ban somebody or move a thread or edit something dammit! Maybe I'll just randomly pick someone or something.
> 
> It's been a while.


PM me. I have a list of people you can ban.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

CApainter said:


> I'm reading that the Gardz, oils, and anything else you've applied over the compromised coating, is not working. That doesn't surprise me if you're not applying it to the bare substrate.
> 
> I'm also reading that the Dulux was a primer/finish in one. Failure doesn't surprise me either.
> 
> ...


I don't believe Dulux has a PVA primer. But all I ever used from them wss there X-pert primer. I'll take a look around to see if I have any old cans lying around.

That being said, I did catch the same thing as you about the paint and primer. I know my dad has been putting ultra eggshell on bare rock without issues in Ontario, but I'm not sure a finish product like X-pert would hold up.


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## Star123 (Jun 16, 2016)

So then let me ask this, the primer sticks to the mud (paint comes off and leaves the primer). But the primer does come off of the bare drywall? 
Does that change anything?


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## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

I would remove a sheet of the drywall and check the manufacturing numbers on the back. Trace the numbers and see where the drywall was made and if there has been issues with it. The paper on the drywall may have something in it that is preventing adhesion.


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## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

Can you take another closer pic of the bare drywall that has been painted and peeled. Maybe one that is looking straight at it and another at a slight angle.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

epretot said:


> PM me. I have a list of people you can ban.


With all the support and "Thanks" I've given you, I would hope I've been moved down the list. Maybe I need to give you some more "Likes".


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

This thread was allowed to remain open so we could engage in some interesting professional speculation and also succeed in thoroughly confusing the HO. I believe both goals have been achieved. And any bitching about it finally being closed will only result in this moderator never again making the decision to allow a DIY thread to remain open for even a little while.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

You couldn't wait til I got home from work could you.

Edit: Never mind, I guess by posting in a closed thread, I kind of modded something. I'm over it now.


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