# New Drywall Ceiling



## E&J Painting

I'm going to be painting two new-construction rooms (bare drywall). I've got a simple question. In doing the ceiling I'm planning on doing one coat of primer and two coats of ceiling paint. Is this overkill for new drywall or ?

Thanks.


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## ROOMINADAY

are you being serious?


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## straight_lines

No it isn't. Even though a lot of guys disagree I still like to use a high build nc drywall primer. Not for adhesion but building a stipple and hiding sheet rock imperfections.


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## jack pauhl

E&J Painting said:


> I'm going to be painting two new-construction rooms (bare drywall). I've got a simple question. In doing the ceiling I'm planning on doing one coat of primer and two coats of ceiling paint. Is this overkill for new drywall or ?
> 
> Thanks.


Depends on what the finish will be, flat, eg or other. Depends on if its smooth or textured. Depends on what the goal is, what you expect after its painted. When sheen isn't critical I wouldn't hesitate to apply two coats of my favorite flat.


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## E&J Painting

Thanks for the tips. Yes, I am being serious. I know how to paint a ceiling but I wanted to see what the consensus is. I recently worked with a guy and we did a new construction home. He sprayed the ceiling and then backrolled it. Long story short, it got totally f*cked up and we ended up having to do 8 - yes 8 - coats. Fiasco. I guess I'm no longer taking ceilings for granted. BTW, I'm doing this job on my own.


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## jack pauhl

E&J Painting said:


> Thanks for the tips. Yes, I am being serious. I know how to paint a ceiling but I wanted to see what the consensus is. I recently worked with a guy and we did a new construction home. He sprayed the ceiling and then backrolled it. Long story short, it got totally f*cked up and we ended up having to do 8 - yes 8 - coats. Fiasco. I guess I'm no longer taking ceilings for granted. BTW, I'm doing this job on my own.


Is it smooth? (non-textured) and what are you putting on it? Flat eg and which paints are you considering?

Edit: I use this method. Although I use wider rollers now unless its small like a bath or closet. It's important to keep your passes consistent and going in the same direction when you finalize an area. Also important to keep it wet.



Guess which way this ceiling was rolled. Left to right or top to bottom of photo or both?


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## Paradigmzz

with the response, the ceiling was smooth, you shot the ceiling with a blown out tip and left rooster tails all across it, and you didn't backroll at all. 8 coats was a poor idea, I would have sanded it. 

Or some other scenario. 


Like JP said, all depends on what it is and where our going with it.


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## jack pauhl

I can see how you thought a blown tip and backrolled. Does look like that. Actually we took the advice here on PT and rolled Sherwin Williams Promar 200 flat with a 14" roller and laid it on heavy! Hope no one thinks that looked right after 2 coats. The photo I posted was after the 1st coat.

Here is what the ceilings looked like before we rolled them. Thats what those lines are.


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## Paradigmzz

Sorry JP, I was refering to post #5, I was guestimating what went wrong with the first ceiling that took 8 coats....


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## E&J Painting

After talking to others and various professionals, here's what went wrong (and why it went to 8 coats):

- the spray tip was fine. There were no "rooster tails" in doing the first spray coat.

- it was first backrolled with an 18" roller to create an orange-peel texture --- first mistake. The 18" roller didn't hit the ceiling evenly so some parts had the texture while others didn't. SO, when the natural daylight hit it you could see differences in texture, which made the coat look uneven.

- the problem got compounded when my partner decided to try another type of ceiling paint and roll it out. The different ceiling paint had a slightly different touch of gray, so there were some bleed-throughs and streaks

- re-sprayed with a 3rd ceiling paint and backrolled with 9" roller. Now we have 3 different types of paint along with texture on top of texture on top of texture. Each additional coat only compounded the problem.

- we finally ended up having to sand it and respray without backrolling. This corrected the problem for the most part but it still wasn't up to our usual standard.

Live and learn I guess. My original thought was to spray one coat of primer - no backroll. Then spray 2 coats of SW Brilliance ceiling paint - again, no backroll. I'll trust my gut feeling next time.


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## jack pauhl

E&J Painting said:


> After talking to others and various professionals, here's what went wrong (and why it went to 8 coats):
> 
> - the spray tip was fine. There were no "rooster tails" in doing the first spray coat.
> 
> - it was first backrolled with an 18" roller to create an orange-peel texture --- first mistake. The 18" roller didn't hit the ceiling evenly so some parts had the texture while others didn't. SO, when the natural daylight hit it you could see differences in texture, which made the coat look uneven.
> 
> - the problem got compounded when my partner decided to try another type of ceiling paint and roll it out. The different ceiling paint had a slightly different touch of gray, so there were some bleed-throughs and streaks
> 
> - re-sprayed with a 3rd ceiling paint and backrolled with 9" roller. Now we have 3 different types of paint along with texture on top of texture on top of texture. Each additional coat only compounded the problem.
> 
> - we finally ended up having to sand it and respray without backrolling. This corrected the problem for the most part but it still wasn't up to our usual standard.
> 
> Live and learn I guess. My original thought was to spray one coat of primer - no backroll. Then spray 2 coats of SW Brilliance ceiling paint - again, no backroll. I'll trust my gut feeling next time.


From a troubleshooting aspect it would be nice to know which paints were used for 1st and 2nd and what nap roller on that 18. Must have been very short to skip or that ceiling was very wavy. You said it left texture so I assume it wasn't a nice white woven cover?


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## DHlll

jack pauhl said:


> Is it smooth? (non-textured) and what are you putting on it? Flat eg and which paints are you considering?
> 
> Edit: I use this method. Although I use wider rollers now unless its small like a bath or closet. It's important to keep your passes consistent and going in the same direction when you finalize an area. Also important to keep it wet.
> 
> 
> 
> Guess which way this ceiling was rolled. Left to right or top to bottom of photo or both?


that diagram is exactly how i roll a ceiling. never in my life have a ever had a problem rolling a ceiling that way. Always the shortest distance. Ever see someone roll down the middle? LOL:blink:


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## Bighead

Smooth ceilings are a btch. If it's new I quote for primer and two top coats. 3-4x more expensive than textured. 

We have a smooth vaulted ceiling coming up that has 32 recessed cans and is about 1,000 square feet.


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## InsideandOut

jack pauhl said:


> Is it smooth? (non-textured) and what are you putting on it? Flat eg and which paints are you considering?
> 
> Edit: I use this method. Although I use wider rollers now unless its small like a bath or closet. It's important to keep your passes consistent and going in the same direction when you finalize an area. Also important to keep it wet.
> 
> 
> 
> Guess which way this ceiling was rolled. Left to right or top to bottom of photo or both?


 Thanks for the coverage pattern Jack. By the way what 18" roller cartridges work best for you? I tried to get a few different brands from my local BM and SW stores but they were sold out! Tried ICI - terrible - spiral roller marks, tried Dynamic - great coverage but not totally lint free as stated on the package.


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## InsideandOut

E&J Painting said:


> I'm going to be painting two new-construction rooms (bare drywall). I've got a simple question. In doing the ceiling I'm planning on doing one coat of primer and two coats of ceiling paint. Is this overkill for new drywall or ?
> 
> Thanks.


I am painting a 450-500 sq ft smooth ceiling - NC. Spray primed and back rolled - 9" roller. First time spraying. Sprayed SW primer only - rolled 2 coats of Brilliance. Encountered consistency issues in the surface which yielded a blotchy look - never had that happen before and I have painted a lot of smooth ceilings. I wasn't totally happy with the quality of the spraying technique used by the "more experienced" person helping me. Lesson learned - work on the technique myself and do it to my standards with the right equipment. Don't ask what spray equipment he used-it's irrelevant since you wouldn't use it for this application and I won't in future either! (It wasn't a Wagner DIY unit!) Next time I will use 18" roller. Used it on the walls of this project and what a difference that made to coverage and speed! To answer your original question - not overkill - 1 prime and 2 coats is my protocol for smooth ceilings - always. As Ford used to say years ago in their commercials - "Quality is Job #1.
Tim


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## Wood511

E&J Painting said:


> - it was first backrolled with an 18" roller to create an orange-peel texture --- first mistake. The 18" roller didn't hit the ceiling evenly so some parts had the texture while others didn't. SO, when the natural daylight hit it you could see differences in texture, which made the coat look uneven.
> 
> - the problem got compounded when my partner decided to try another type of ceiling paint and roll it out. The different ceiling paint had a slightly different touch of gray, so there were some bleed-throughs and streaks
> 
> - re-sprayed with a 3rd ceiling paint and backrolled with 9" roller. Now we have 3 different types of paint along with texture on top of texture on top of texture. Each additional coat only compounded the problem.
> 
> - we finally ended up having to sand it and respray without backrolling. This corrected the problem for the most part but it still wasn't up to our usual standard.


8 coats? Jeezus... I think I would have just burned the place to the ground after 5.


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## straight_lines

InsideandOut said:


> Thanks for the coverage pattern Jack. By the way what 18" roller cartridges work best for you? I tried to get a few different brands from my local BM and SW stores but they were sold out! Tried ICI - terrible - spiral roller marks, tried Dynamic - great coverage but not totally lint free as stated on the package.


 I like the PRO-EXTRA Colossus.


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## CliffK

E&J Painting said:


> Thanks for the tips. Yes, I am being serious. I know how to paint a ceiling but I wanted to see what the consensus is. I recently worked with a guy and we did a new construction home. He sprayed the ceiling and then backrolled it. Long story short, it got totally f*cked up and we ended up having to do 8 - yes 8 - coats. Fiasco. I guess I'm no longer taking ceilings for granted. BTW, I'm doing this job on my own.


 Sounds like a real money maker to me!


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## The_Texture_Guy

hhahaha. i painted a ceiling once for aclient who wanted it slick. i gave him one coat primer adn one coat ceiling paint rolled. he said he could see through it and didnt like how it looked at 3pm. it looked fine though at 10 am. so i happily rolled it again for him. havent heard anything since. i did get athank you note from them. so either they accepted that it may always look different in a different light or it looked fine. we removed the popcorn from that btw and skimmed the joints.


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## johnpaint

Not to be picky and I know JP just used a 10'x12' for an example but you can paint a small room like that just about any way you want as long as you keep a wet edge. Where we all need to careful to work out a plan of attack is when we are doing a 22'x18' ceiling, throw in some eggshell and few high windows. Now we got a real job.


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## Capt-sheetrock

The_Texture_Guy said:


> hhahaha. i painted a ceiling once for aclient who wanted it slick. i gave him one coat primer adn one coat ceiling paint rolled. he said he could see through it and didnt like how it looked at 3pm. it looked fine though at 10 am. so i happily rolled it again for him. havent heard anything since. i did get athank you note from them. so either they accepted that it may always look different in a different light or it looked fine. we removed the popcorn from that btw and skimmed the joints.


 That happens alot,,, what it boils down too, is they wanted an extra coat, for free,,,,,,,,,,, and they got it.


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## The_Texture_Guy

jack pauhl said:


> Is it smooth? (non-textured) and what are you putting on it? Flat eg and which paints are you considering?
> 
> Edit: I use this method. Although I use wider rollers now unless its small like a bath or closet. It's important to keep your passes consistent and going in the same direction when you finalize an area. Also important to keep it wet.
> 
> 
> 
> Guess which way this ceiling was rolled. Left to right or top to bottom of photo or both?


how do you hide the finish lines? I had a client that didnt like them at certain times of the day so i put one more coat of paint. it had primer and two top coats.

Is the only way to prevent the lines from appearing would be to skim the entire ceiling with joint butter first?


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## Custom Brush Co.

The_Texture_Guy said:


> hhahaha. i painted a ceiling once for aclient who wanted it slick. i gave him one coat primer adn one coat ceiling paint rolled. he said he could see through it and didnt like how it looked at 3pm. it looked fine though at 10 am. so i happily rolled it again for him. havent heard anything since. i did get athank you note from them. so either they accepted that it may always look different in a different light or it looked fine. we removed the popcorn from that btw and skimmed the joints.


I have heard popcorn ceilings often can have asbestos. YOu ever check or worry about this?


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## Custom Brush Co.

In all my experiences in the 12 years of experience I have had, ceiling problems like this have always been due to not backrolling or putting enough paint on the wall. Ceilings take more effort to press up and a rookie, would be painter with no training could easily make rook rolling moves. Like using a short nap or too long a nap. Or using too much or too little paint (usually the case). Then they can't even hold the pole up without slipping across the ceiling. 

Use a high quality primer and 2 coats of paint applied professionally and the only thing that could disrupt your eye will be inconsistent texture and or a wavy ceiling pattern you could never do anything about if you were not the installer.

"Put some paint on that brush!" Is My favorite saying. Or another take on this, "Put some paint on that wall!"

The difference between an ameture and a homeowner roll job is obvious. So what about a true, experienced professional as compared to an ameture painter. This is my opinion why people get lines.

My Best Tip: On big ceilings, like pictured above, spray and backroll one way on the first coat (LET IT DRY COMPLETELY) then the opposite way the second coat. On the last coat make sure you roll with the the direction the light enters the room if possible. This process will get the professional results as long as you don't skimp on the paint. You will always know when you have too much paint cause it will feel sort of like mopping a puddle up. And when you have too little paint the roller is always dry and the noise it makes when rolling is like tape coming off of something after being there for 2 weeks. Get the backrolling to make a noise like removing tape after a few hours. A little tacky but not too much. You can also tell cause your eyes can tell the difference after a while.


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## Ole34

Capt-sheetrock said:


> That happens alot,,, what it boils down too, is they wanted an extra coat, for free,,,,,,,,,,, and they got it.


 

you got that right, the old ''i can see through it'' trick to get a free coat...... wanna know how you fix those people ????? swap out the light bulbs in the room......... they have 100w? swap 75's in there !! 



want to play dirty with me and your getting it back 10 fold. i pride myself in doing an honest job but if you try to snake me watch out ... my old boss was the best at this, we did a job once and every morning we noticed she was checking the paint cause the lids weren't on right an putting samples on the wall while we weren't there so we figured she was gonna pull the ole ''that's not the color I picked'' trick to get a free coat ........ keep in mind the paint was correct but you know how they always look different when up on a wall under lighting? so anyway he taped off the paint chip that she chose and painted it with the paint we were using then dried it and peeled back the tape and set it off to the side....soon enough we were done and she jumped him with ''look I don't think you have the right color and I don't feel as if I should pay full price for this'' ...........so he went and got the chip and applied a sample then dried it ..............hahahahahahaha she almost **** a brick the sample vanished(of course the sample matched the chip perfectly cause we painted it with the same stuff ) she was trying to get an additional coat out of us and she FAILED !!! ............. painters 1, homeowners 0 

and when we left we took the chip and all the touch up with us


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## BrushJockey

You the smarty!


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## Workaholic

Custom Brush Co. said:


> I have heard popcorn ceilings often can have asbestos. YOu ever check or worry about this?


I think some popcorn had asbestos in it until around 82 or 83? Somewhere around there. So if the home is built after that you know you are clear.


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## Capt-sheetrock

Workaholic said:


> I think some popcorn had asbestos in it until around 82 or 83? Somewhere around there. So if the home is built after that you know you are clear.


 drag a drywall knife over it, if it revels brown spots (cork) you have asbestoes


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## The_Texture_Guy

Capt-sheetrock said:


> drag a drywall knife over it, if it revels brown spots (cork) you have asbestoes


That is just the most unsafe thing to do. You cant see asbestos. It is so tiny. The theory is that it was only used int he 70's and some overstock in the early 80's if any. All you do is send it in to get tested. Not that it matters because home owners 95% of the time don't care about their health.


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## Capt-sheetrock

The_Texture_Guy said:


> That is just the most unsafe thing to do. You cant see asbestos. It is so tiny. The theory is that it was only used int he 70's and some overstock in the early 80's if any. All you do is send it in to get tested. Not that it matters because home owners 95% of the time don't care about their health.


 I didn't say take a drywall knofe and start scrapeing..... 

Just reach up and hit a 10" spot, not scrapeing, just like running a skim coat. It will be obvious in a second or two if it has cork in it. If thats the most unsafe thing you have ever seen, you must be living in a bubble. Or perhaps you have never used zinnser,,,lol.


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## propainterJ

Why backroll a smooth ceiling?

If the homeowner wanted texture on the ceiling then why not have the drywall guys do it?

I havent backrolled a ceiling since the 90's,in my experiance,taking a roller to a ceiling never works out well.

It looks to me that that particular ceiling had drywall issues before you started,I see a lot of that here in my part of California,not too many good drywall guys around for whatever reason.

But for ceilings I have found my best method for painting them is just to use a good paint thinned just enough to avoid tails,good tip for the same reason,and then just a nice even heavy coat,2 for raw drywall,sprayed from a distance of about 24'' evenly will do the trick every time.

If theres a bad texture job on a ceiling,nothing you do with paint is going to fix that.


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