# exterior staining nightmare



## blazinskunk (Aug 22, 2011)

Before you read this, please know that I am fully aware that this site is for pros only and for that, I appologize. I just have no where else to turn...

At the end of May, I contracted a local painter to restain my exterior wood siding (rough sawn pine, i believe). After a day of staining I told him it looked way too shiny/glossy and it's not what I wanted at all. He told me everything would be fine after the stain cured for a day or 2. 

Well, I waited. In the mean time, the painter finished 2 more sides of the house. When I went out to check on the first wall he stained I was not pleased. It looked terrible! Shinry, glossy, and, well, terrible! My wife says it looks like someone rubbed the house with a giant stick of butter. Some spots are perfect, while other LARGE areas look shiny/glossy.

At this point I only payed him $500 (out of $3000). Long story short, it took him 3 months to come back to try and fix it (only after I threatened to sue him). 

He came back today to try to remedy the problem. He used paint thinner to remove the excess stain build-up that was sitting on the surface, causing the glossy/shiney look. It actually looked pretty good until he applied ANOTHER coat of stain on top. Now it looks like it did before he used the thinner.

My question is: Can he use JUST the thinner to remove the gloss? If so, will the wood be protected? My understanding is that the stain penetrates the wood and anything left on top of the wood's surface is unnessesary. 

PLEASE HELP ME!

additional details:
sprayed on then back-brushed in.
prepped by power washing
he is using Shewin Williams stain


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## Rick the painter (Mar 30, 2009)

It sounds like over lap marks to me.Your supposed to paint from top to bottom,keeping a wet edge as you go.Typically a 4ft section,started from one end and continued with a wet edge all the way across the building.The exact type SW stain would help ,too.


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## Paintmaster (Aug 13, 2011)

I myself have not tried Sherwin Williams siding stain. Their website only shows water based siding stain products - and he wiped it down with thinner? What EXACTLY did he put on?

When it comes to sealing lumber (stain is also considered a sealer in this case), you don't want too much excess stain applied because it might flake, crack, chip and peel off - making it all look ugly. Most manufacturors state this on the can.
The painter may have over applied thinking he was doing a great job, and using thinner to wipe it down could be a problem with the EPA if that stuff gets in the ground. 
Do you know exactly what he put on?


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## blazinskunk (Aug 22, 2011)

Paintmaster said:


> I myself have not tried Sherwin Williams siding stain. Their website only shows water based siding stain products - and he wiped it down with thinner? What EXACTLY did he put on?
> 
> When it comes to sealing lumber (stain is also considered a sealer in this case), you don't want too much excess stain applied because it might flake, crack, chip and peel off - making it all look ugly. Most manufacturors state this on the can.
> The painter may have over applied thinking he was doing a great job, and using thinner to wipe it down could be a problem with the EPA if that stuff gets in the ground.
> Do you know exactly what he put on?


Shewin Williams semi transparent oil based stain. The other fellow mentioned overlapping and that is notthe case. On the backside of the house, it is completely glossy. I'll post pics.


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## LA Painter (Jul 28, 2009)

Semi-Transparent needs to be ragged off during application - not after it's cured.

Solid bodied stain does not need ragging off.

Which was used?


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## Paintmaster (Aug 13, 2011)

If it's an oil based stain, wiping it down with thinner to remove the surface buildup to make it look better shouldn't hurt it. 
Contact the manufacturor for their recommendations. Also, paint thinner getting into soil is a major fine - hope he's taking proper precautions.


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## blazinskunk (Aug 22, 2011)

OK, so LA Painter says no, ad Paintmaster says yes. I had one guy tell me that it would take 6-8months for the sheen to fade away. Oh and it's semi trans oil stain....pics are coming


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## blazinskunk (Aug 22, 2011)

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/839/055ab.jpg/
just restained today. dry to the touch

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/809/056mj.jpg/
bubbles from today

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/710/057ep.jpg/
today as well

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/17/060jz.jpg/
2 month old stain. Notice the blotch/shiny spot to the right of the pic.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/268/058xcd.jpg/
that spot zoomed in


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## Rick the painter (Mar 30, 2009)

Humm, All that you can do is make sure the house has two good coats of the oil.The blotchy spots on the second floor could be from weathered wood.Ten coats would look the same as two because the texture of the wood is different from shaded areas.I would put another coat on a small area up there just to make sure.I would just live with the shine,it will dull in time.Oil base sealeds the wood best.I would wash it every two years.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I think semitrans can get a sheen with 2 coats and usually should have only one coat. The second may sit on top and fail to penetrate which then dries with a sheen and forms a film. 2 coats can be applied wet on wet, but not as separate coats.

Initiating count down to DIY'er lock.....


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## NACE (May 16, 2008)

DeanV said:


> I think semitrans can get a sheen with 2 coats and usually should have only one coat. The second may sit on top and fail to penetrate which then dries with a sheen and forms a film. 2 coats can be applied wet on wet, but not as separate coats.
> 
> Initiating count down to DIY'er lock.....


You are correct. The painter is not at fault. It may weather down but on dense grain it will flash.


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

Maybe it's just my monitor but that doesn't look anything like semi-transparent to me. And I agree it does look like crap. 

Maybe it would look better with a solid siding stain.


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## krosspainting (Jan 21, 2011)

NACE said:


> You are correct. The painter is not at fault. It may weather down but on dense grain it will flash.


No, No, NO!! Read the post, professional painters!! He said the siding was pine. Pine CANNOT, I repeat, CANNOT be stained without a stain controller as a first coat. The blotchiness you are seeing is because he missed this step. You absolutely have to use a stain controller as a "primer" before using a stain. This goes for interior or exterior. Pine is an ugly wood, better for paint, not stain.


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

My guess would be (at least in part)..prep issues. Over aggressive pressure washing and/or spot sanding can cause varainces in stain absorption. Wet-on-dry, as mentioned, will just make the problems worse. Mineral spirits aren't going to do much at this point.

Was the house stripped to bare wood and pH balanced before staining?

If you want it done right, it needs to be stripped and redone. I can possible suggest a professional to do it correctly if you pm me (based on where you are). You're only in for $500 so you should have no problem paying a real stain applying pro. Rough sawn is difficult to get uniform.


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## mpminter (Mar 21, 2011)

Do you have a picture of the can that the stain came in? This looks to me like over application. I suspect he used oil based deckscapes for this project, and the PDS for this product states that a second coat should not be used. Over application of a penetrating oil based stain will give you a shiny look and will provide a breeding ground for mold and mildew


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## BreatheEasyHP (Apr 24, 2011)

That zoomed in part sure looks like the first oil deck I stained and that was from inconsistent application. He probably went over that part twice. 

Wiping with mineral spirits? Poor guy, that's uncomfortable work.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I will say that if the siding was let go, there is only so much painter can do with semitrans stain to eaves stuff out. Unless a fill strip is done like PP suggested, differences between weathered and weathered areas alone can account for a fair amount of variation. 

A good question may be should most semtrans exterior stain jobs be stripped and not just recoated.


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## Ultimate (Mar 20, 2011)

In before the lock.

That is the old school siding. I have pics of some I did in Charlotte. That stuff cups and twists BAD. 

Only way to make that look good is to put two coats of solid stain. Or prime with Zinnser and apply two coats of flat. 

I did one of these in a condo complex in Charlotte. I will post some pics. The cupping forced replacement with T-111 to somewhat match the existing siding that was not replaced. Cheap AZZZZ HOA's. I did a unit that belongs to a family member because I could not stand to see the inability for the HOA to agree be cause for a family member's lack of maintanence of property. The guy they had doing the work was filling the cupping areas with caulk. Gaps over a half inch. Then painting it with a paint that had a sheen. Is there a barf smiley face? 

Make it flat or it's gonna be ugly. 

Semi-transparent stain = yuck 90% of the time. 

Forcing the painter to fix that... I dunno man did you ask for semi transparent stain to be applied? Did you not have him prep the surface first. Did he not suggest to? Unless it was completey stripped prior to application there is practically no chance it will look consistent. Unless you go solid. I don't know the details of the contract but MAYBE or MAYBE NOT the painter did you harm intentional or not. If he followed directions given by you then......... 

Personally I would have warned you prior to application it would look bad. I guess after saying give it a couple of days he demonstrated lack of knowledge. So, you have a point. How cheap was he? hahah Not very now was he? Just saying sir sorry but I hope you gained a little respect for the difference between a quality painter and a hack. Yea, he should have known to tell you after asking about the one wall. He should have known prior to. 

Find a reputable company and pay the bill. It costs less. 

Prime it with Zinnser and paint it flat. Then plan on painting it every 3-6 years. Put it in your budget. Or look at some hack painter walls....

Or strip it down. If it's pine really. Paint it. If it's cedar like was in Charlotte. Maybe strip it.... Either way there is no thinner and a rag in the world that will fix that. 

Edit:
Just a note. Great minds think alike.

Oh and sorry for being a jerk.


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## Rick the painter (Mar 30, 2009)

Back in the day semi trans on rough cedar horizontal siding looked beautiful.Current VOC laws give semi and solid oil a shiny finish.I hate to add another variable but if the back brushing wasnt thorough enough the stain dries on top top of the wood,and will give an uneven appearance.


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## cappaint (May 24, 2011)

Gotta read the can. My guess is it called for 1 coat and he did more than that.


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## mpminter (Mar 21, 2011)

As I said before, there is WAY too much finish on this house! I don't know why some of you are telling this poor guy to make sure it has two coats of oil, when clearly he already has too much on there! Even with the new VOC rules, there is no reason in the world that a semi-transparent stain from a reputable manufacturer would have a sheen to it UNLESS it was over applied. Read the Technical Data Sheets on some of the oil based products out there and you'll see what I mean. Good prep will help ensure that the stain is able to penetrate into the substrate and make that one coat a good one. I always pressure wash with a 15-25 degree tip, use a stripper that is rinsed off with the same tip, wash with a good cleaner (usually TSP and bleach), and then brighten with an oxalic acid based brightener/neutralizer. This removes all of the old finish, removes the dead wood cells (previously referred to as lignin and cellulose?) and mill glaze, gets rid of mold/mildew stains, graying, etc. and leaves the grain ready to absorb stain.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

That painter did nothing wrong - that's just how F'd up Sherwin oil based stains apply. Blame the manufacturer, not the painter. Not to mention an oil based product like that won't be able to hold onto that sheen for very long anyways.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I suspect the condition of the building played a big part in the outcome. But, 2 coats of a product like that is a no-no as well unless the surface is exceptionally porous and can drink in another coat. 

Now that this seems to have run its useful course,

Thank you for posting at Painttalk.com. This site is reserved for professional painters and we ask that other paint related questions are asked at our sister site, www.diychatroom.com.

This thread is closed.


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