# Deck stripping



## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

I know this has been covered in previous threads, I used the search function and spent some time reading what was there. So what I'm asking is basically a yes or no question.

The client is Grade A, top notch, established customer. Has a deck that he wants stripped and a semi-trans stain applied. Approximately 500 sq. ft. of deck surface along with rails, spindles, lattice and benches. The deck has been added on to over the years, so there is a various degree of age. All is built with PT pine and last coating was 2 coats of SW solid color stain, some over an existing coating of some other solid color. 

I've never stripped a deck before, but my gut feeling (having read the old threads) is that it would be more feasible to replace the deck with new wood as opposed to stripping.

So what's the prevailing wisdom here?


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## Repaintpro (Oct 2, 2012)

That won't take much to strip and pressure clean. Can't help with US products but this is not an insurmountable task by any means!


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

Is the SW stain acrylic? 

If the concentration is strong enough NaOH will remove acrylic paints :whistling2:, so I would assume it would remove the stain. It might take multiple coats, and you will either have to apply it all by hand or plan on repainting the house by the deck. 

I haven't found a good way to mask off a house, the stripper seems to break down the glue on tape in about 10 seconds. 

It may be cheaper to replace the deck, but I can't say for certain as I have no idea what the labor cost on removing/installing new would be. Maybe just replacing the railing and stripping the deck would be a good compromise. 

The deck would be a lot easier to keep the stripper off of the house, as spraying the railing would be a huge mess, and brushing/rolling would be time consuming.


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## Krittterkare (Jul 12, 2013)

Pictures of the deck would be helpful. 

You can rent a deck sander, sounds like a drum sander and use an appropriate stripper and lots of belt and orbital sanding. Sounds like if he would be willing to replace the deck he would pay for the labor to strip it. I hate the idea of replacing the deck because it is a waste of resources unless the deck in not real sound condition or could be rebuilt to be more functional.

Does he want to have possibly weeks of work going on and thousands of dollars either way? The best option would be to re-stain in a solid waterbased, if the previous stain was oil I would bet he would be much happier with the look of a water based solid whether to match the house or a wood tone color. 

Fact is it is very hard to strip an old deck and have it look fresh with a semi transparent vs the effort put in to it, I pass on jobs like that unless every hour is paid for and the HO understands the best you can hope for is it looks good but expect that it will just look ok. and a few years down the road repeat the process. 

Hines has the right idea on just refinishing the deck floor and replacing the rails or just refinishing the floor and using a semi and re-staining the rails in a solid is an option. 

But to keep it simple just prep it well and do a coat of waterborne solid stain and be done with it.


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## CRS (Apr 13, 2013)

Strip with NaOh & pressure wash. Follow by floor sander ....ordital (can rent from Home Depot) for the larger open areas, use palm sander for edges and details. Be sure to neutralize deck before re stain. Oxalic/phosphoric/ Citric of various blend. Wood is acidic and must be returned to acidic before after any high PH stripper is used.
Works every time.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Pressure treated pine? I'm guessing it's the AP grade, not the one with slits? I can't see sanding Pt wood. Sounds nasty. Going from solid to semi can be tough. You can offer to do a sample section for a consulting fee. Test some strippers. Is there anything under the deck like more house? Or is it ground level? That could be a big factor on all the chemicals running down the house. 
Tell him the Trex decking is lovely this time of year.


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## Ohio Painter (Dec 22, 2014)

I have used SW Deck scapes stain remover. Spray on with garden pump sprayer, scrub with a brush and power wash off. Then apply, SW Deckscapes Revive to neutralize the stain remover, power wash that off too. Results are very impressive. I have stripped a whole house and several decks. 

You will now have a surface ready for staining after a few days drying. Semi transparent stain will be ok but to be on the safe side try going to a darker color just to be sure to cover any highs and lows and stubborn bits of stain that may be remaining on the deck surface.

The stain remover will remove paint from the house siding etc, stuff plenty of cardboard or plastic between deck and house. It is at least environmentally safe around plants etc. 

To answer you question I would say yes go for it. Top notch customer - give them what they want. 
Be sure to price the right amount of products and two applications of power washing, plus a ton of clean up as it makes one heck of a mess. 
Feel free to ask more questions.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Thanks for the replies. I think doing a test of the process is what I'm gonna do. The job will be T&M, but the client would like a ballpark idea of the costs, which is understandable. I know some of the decking will have to be replaced because it has deteriorated beyond salvage, so it would be a combination of stripping and replacing. 

I was going to post some pics, but what I thought were pictures taken on my phone turned out to be a couple of 10 second videos with a split-second glimpse of the deck and 9 second shot of my feet. I'm a techno-idiot. :blink:

Again, thanks for the helpful replies.


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## doctors11 (May 17, 2010)

I run into this type of situation a couple of times a year. Now that you've mentioned some of the boards going bad I'm inclined to suggest reboarding the whole deck. If the deck is old enough that some of the boards are going bad it's only a matter of time that the rest will too. The amount of $ they'll spend on your labor to try to pretty up an old deck would be much better spent on applying a semi trans to beautiful new wood.

This is typically when I pull out my samples of higher grade woods and the customer's eyes bulge out when they see TWP oil on ipe, tigerwood, cedar or even a higher grade of PT (kdat).


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

EFC-38 Wood Deck Cleaner/Stripper followed by Citralic Wood Deck Brightener should take care of that.

On the following video they used the products I mentioned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vN18up1q2GQ


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

doctors11 said:


> I run into this type of situation a couple of times a year. Now that you've mentioned some of the boards going bad I'm inclined to suggest reboarding the whole deck. If the deck is old enough that some of the boards are going bad it's only a matter of time that the rest will too. The amount of $ they'll spend on your labor to try to pretty up an old deck would be much better spent on applying a semi trans to beautiful new wood.
> 
> This is typically when I pull out my samples of higher grade woods and the customer's eyes bulge out when they see TWP oil on ipe, tigerwood, cedar or even a higher grade of PT (kdat).


I know this thread has been dormant for awhile, but the wet weather has put the project on hold for awhile. To update, I convinced the owner that reboarding the deck is a much better route than stripping. I got him together with a great carpenter whose price to reboard made it a no-brainer vs. stripping existing. Not that stripping would've been more than replacement, but the value down the road was better. (Thanks, Doc.) Still going with PT pine.

Now to the finish. After reading here on PT and on Vermont Painter's Topcoatreviews and on RCP's BloggingPainters sites, it seems deck finishes are almost a total crapshoot. ArborCoat seems to rate well here at PT with the solid color finish, but the semi-solid and semi-trans not so well. But it seems the conventional wisdom for deck coatings is to use a non-film building product, which I understand and agree with. No film/no peel. Especially here in this humid Southern climate. So why would the Arborcoat solid do better than a semi-trans or semi-solid?

At this point, I think I need to look for a semi-trans oil coating of some type that conditions the wood and is non-film forming. To me the ultimate failure of a protective coating is peeling back to the substrate.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

slinger58 said:


> I know this thread has been dormant for awhile, but the wet weather has put the project on hold for awhile. To update, I convinced the owner that reboarding the deck is a much better route than stripping. I got him together with a great carpenter whose price to reboard made it a no-brainer vs. stripping existing. Not that stripping would've been more than replacement, but the value down the road was better. (Thanks, Doc.) Still going with PT pine.
> 
> Now to the finish. After reading here on PT and on Vermont Painter's Topcoatreviews and on RCP's BloggingPainters sites, it seems deck finishes are almost a total crapshoot. ArborCoat seems to rate well here at PT with the solid color finish, but the semi-solid and semi-trans not so well. But it seems the conventional wisdom for deck coatings is to use a non-film building product, which I understand and agree with. No film/no peel. Especially here in this humid Southern climate. So why would the Arborcoat solid do better than a semi-trans or semi-solid?
> 
> At this point, I think I need to look for a semi-trans oil coating of some type that conditions the wood and is non-film forming. To me the ultimate failure of a protective coating is peeling back to the substrate.


Penofin Ultra Premium red label. Contact Erica at [email protected] she can mail you some literature and a few samples.










http://www.penofin.com/wood-stains/ultra-premium-red-label-wood-stain

Don't forget to wipe.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Thanks Rent. I gotta say though, it kinda spooks me that you posted to my thread that was two months dormant, less than an hour before I bumped it myself. 

I think I'll log out and log back in.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

slinger58 said:


> Thanks Rent. I gotta say though, it kinda spooks me that you posted to my thread that was two months dormant, less than an hour before I bumped it myself.
> 
> I think I'll log out and log back in.



So it took you two months to type a reply. God you are getting slow!!

Fine. I won't be posting in your threads again.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> So it took you two months to type a reply. God you are getting slow!!
> 
> Fine. I won't be posting in your threads again.


Oh hell, I was already dead to you anyway. :jester:


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

slinger58 said:


> Oh hell, I was already dead to you anyway. :jester:


Lol. Look into it. If you need samples let me know. I have a few.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Yeah, that's another variable in deck coatings; what's available in your market.


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## doctors11 (May 17, 2010)

Are you going with wet or kdat? Big difference in price, quality and appearance especially a year or two down the road.

As for stains, I've tried countless and have settled on TWP 100 series (thanks Ken). I've not used Penofin but many who have say it turns black with mold and mildew in about 6 months in wetter conditions.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Are the deck boards coated on the bottom? I have seen the boards get flipped over to get a bare wood for semi trans stain. This may be an option.


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## Roamer (Jul 5, 2010)

If the HO is going to all the trouble and expense of having the deck boards replaced why doesn't he go with a non-wood product. Save on future maintenance and is fairly environmentally friendly.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

doctors11 said:


> Are you going with wet or kdat? Big difference in price, quality and appearance especially a year or two down the road.
> 
> As for stains, I've tried countless and have settled on TWP 100 series (thanks Ken). I've not used Penofin but many who have say it turns black with mold and mildew in about 6 months in wetter conditions.


I'm not familiar with "kdat". Guess it's back to Google for me. Lol. I've looked online at the TWP products. Do you prefer the 100 series over the 1500 series?

Ok, now I'm up to speed on kdat, "kiln dried after treatment". I have heard of that, just never heard the term kdat. My brief google search showed it to be a "Yellawood" product" and I have seen that advertised here. Is that the brand you're referring to, Doc?


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Roamer said:


> If the HO is going to all the trouble and expense of having the deck boards replaced why doesn't he go with a non-wood product. Save on future maintenance and is fairly environmentally friendly.


I'm not familiar with non-wood products for decks. The owner has brought in a landscape architect to the project now. Since he's reboarding the deck he decided to expand the deck and redesign the handrail system. Neither he or the landscape architect has mentioned any alternative to PT pine and as I say, I don't know anything about the non-wood products.


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## Roamer (Jul 5, 2010)

slinger58 said:


> I'm not familiar with non-wood products for decks.


Trex is probably the most popular and well known. It is purportedly made from recycled plastic. Maintenance amounts to just having to wash it depending on frequency of mildew growth or other accumulation of dirt.


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## doctors11 (May 17, 2010)

kdat is a generic term. There are a number of companies that offer it depending on your location. Cox is prevalent around here and we also have Yellawood and Klumb. I've not used Yellawood only because I couldn't find any contractors in the county who have to give me their impressions. Cox is only sold locally with their factory applied waterproofing which doesn't accept stain too well. Klumb I've used exclusively for the past 4 years and love it. I buy it from Probuild and it's been great.

One thing to remember is most of these companies start with a better grade of wood than wet treated, treat the wood, kiln dry it, then run it through the planers one more time for the best finish. It's as pretty as Southern Yellow Pine gets BUT it's a little undersize so it can't be used to patch a wet treated deck...it won't match.

Twp 100 is what I use, but, it's not legal in all 50 states due to VOC regs. 1500 is what's used in the other states.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

doctors11 said:


> kdat is a generic term. There are a number of companies that offer it depending on your location. Cox is prevalent around here and we also have Yellawood and Klumb. I've not used Yellawood only because I couldn't find any contractors in the county who have to give me their impressions. Cox is only sold locally with their factory applied waterproofing which doesn't accept stain too well. Klumb I've used exclusively for the past 4 years and love it. I buy it from Probuild and it's been great.
> 
> One thing to remember is most of these companies start with a better grade of wood than wet treated, treat the wood, kiln dry it, then run it through the planers one more time for the best finish. It's as pretty as Southern Yellow Pine gets BUT it's a little undersize so it can't be used to patch a wet treated deck...it won't match.
> 
> Twp 100 is what I use, but, it's not legal in all 50 states due to VOC regs. 1500 is what's used in the other states.


I found one place here that stocks the kdat, but they only carried 16' lengths in the 2" material and it is substantially more expensive than the wet stuff.

Thanks for all the useful info, Doc. :thumbup:


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## doctors11 (May 17, 2010)

Anytime Slinger.  Keep in mind kdat will expand over time as it gains moisture and wet treated will shrink as it dries...watch the gap spacing.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

doctors11 said:


> Anytime Slinger.  Keep in mind kdat will expand over time as it gains moisture and wet treated will shrink as it dries...watch the gap spacing.


Thanks again. I've learned quite a bit about the deck business in the past few weeks. I ordered some samples of the TWP 100 today. The carpenter is going to use the wet stuff on this deck rebuild, so I have time to get a finish product selected. The fact that the 100 series is not VOC compliant in some states (16) was a plus in my book. It seems the EPA's (or their local version) job is to outlaw anything that works well.

Since I was researching deck material, I looked at the Ipe wood sites. All I could think was "Holy Sh!t, Batman". That's some pricey stuff! Then I read the specs on it and thought "well, that's a deck you only have to build once". Have you done any decks with the Ipe?


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

Ipe is really nice but you have to do it every 6 months.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> Ipe is really nice but you have to do it every 6 months.


6 months? Surely you jest.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

slinger58 said:


> 6 months? Surely you jest.


I'm serious.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> I'm serious.


According to what I read, it'll last nearly forever untreated. So the treatment is just cosmetic?


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

slinger58 said:


> According to what I read, it'll last nearly forever untreated. So the treatment is just cosmetic?


Yes sir.


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## doctors11 (May 17, 2010)

I've probably reboarded about 40 decks in the last 14 years. Only 2 ipe and 3 tigerwood. If I could wave my magic wand I'd only work with these wonderful tropical hardwoods. Yes they're expensive but for the right customer they are a beautiful addition to indoor/outdoor living. 

Yes for the most part the oils are cosmetic. Without them all wood weathers to a silver grey, and the tropical hardwoods will have very minimal tiny cracks from the UV rays. The wood is so dense very little oil can penetrate so after about 6 months it's faded significantly. Of the five I maintain 2 I only clean once a year, the other three I clean and re-oil about every 6-8 months.


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## doctors11 (May 17, 2010)

By the way I've posted this before but here's a pretty good site for deck product reviews.

http://www.deckstainhelp.com/


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## doctors11 (May 17, 2010)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> Ipe is really nice but you have to do it every 6 months.


 Hey Rent, what kind of stain is that? Looks sweet!


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

doctors11 said:


> Hey Rent, what kind of stain is that? Looks sweet!


Cabot's Australian Timber Oil (Honey Teak).


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## doctors11 (May 17, 2010)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> Cabot's Australian Timber Oil (Honey Teak).


 Ouch. Around here they changed that formulation a couple of years ago. It's now a horrible mess waiting to happen. Cabot used to be a respectable stain company but ever since they got bought out by Valspar their products have been going downhill. It's hit or miss here. Their toner "heartwood" which I still use on some fences, is decent if bought from a building supply store, but lousy if bought from Lowes.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

doctors11 said:


> Ouch. Around here they changed that formulation a couple of years ago. It's now a horrible mess waiting to happen. Cabot used to be a respectable stain company but ever since they got bought out by Valspar their products have been going downhill. It's hit or miss here. Their toner "heartwood" which I still use on some fences, is decent if bought from a building supply store, but lousy if bought from Lowes.


I have been using it for 10 years on that deck, every 6 months. I read your comment about the Penofin, not neutralizing it after stripping will turn the wood black no matter what you use.

I get it from a small paint store that specializes on stains only.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

Still working on this one a couple more hours. Not bad for a Sunday


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## doctors11 (May 17, 2010)

Looks great! Is that sheen because it's wet or does it dry that way? Do you strip off the old coat before restaining?


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

It dries like this.


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## WestCoast99 (May 8, 2012)

I've got a stupid question...what do you all mean by "toner". Thanks.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

WestCoast99 said:


> I've got a stupid question...what do you all mean by "toner". Thanks.



I've often wondered what the real difference between toner and semi-transparent stains is also. The apparent differences are that toner seems to have less solids, and perhaps a different type of pigment. 

Comparing say, Cabbots semi-trans to the Australian Timber oil (a toner) you can see a difference in how the pigments settle out over time. 
A semi-trans stain can be tinted to custom colors by adding tint to a base much like is done with solid stains or paints. Toners come in premixed colors, and as far as I know cannot be tinted in the same fashion. 

It also seems like toners penetrate more completely, leaving less pigment on the surface. 

I imagine there is a simple answer to that question. It's came up a couple times before here, and I haven't seen that answer yet.


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## doctors11 (May 17, 2010)

WestCoast99 said:


> I've got a stupid question...what do you all mean by "toner". Thanks.


 It's not a scientific term but one some manufacturers use to distinguish it from the more heavily pigmented semi transparents. Some call it translucent. Cabot does both, calling it "Wood Toned" on the label and translucent in the description.

On Cabot's website you'll notice there are two versions, one higher voc and one lower. The higher says to clean brushes with mineral spirits, the lower says to use soap and water. ie, two totally different products.

http://www.cabotstain.com/products/product/Clear-Solutions.html


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> It dries like this.


 do you wipe Ipe wood with acetone prior to finish application? It seems to aid in finish penetration by drawing out some of the wood natural oils, and allowing them to be replaced by the oil finish. We've had good luck with this process, while using Messmer's hardwood oil.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

ExcelPaintingCo said:


> do you wipe Ipe wood with acetone prior to finish application? It seems to aid in finish penetration by drawing out some of the wood natural oils, and allowing them to be replaced by the oil finish. We've had good luck with this process, while using Messmer's hardwood oil.


:thumbup:


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