# Centurion water based coatings.



## Austinbazar (Dec 19, 2017)

Hello everyone, currently I use emerald urethane on cabinets, but like everyone else I’m hearing great things about the 1k and 2k products.

can anyone give me feedback on how the application process compares to emerald urethane? Also, obviously the 2k is better than emerald but what about the 1k? Is it better than emerald as well? I’m worried about the dangers of the chemicals in the catalyst. Can either of them be brushed or rolled? I plan on spraying but just wondering about for touchups or certain areas that I sometimes brush or roll. What’s the main difference between the 1k and 2k? How about the primers they offer, how do they compare to other primers? Any other tips or tricks or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank yall!


----------



## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Have heard only good things. I'm sure @cocomonkeynuts will chime in and school you on it. Theres a few other threads on this also I believe..


----------



## monarchski (Jun 21, 2019)

Austinbazar said:


> Hello everyone, currently I use emerald urethane on cabinets, but like everyone else I’m hearing great things about the 1k and 2k products.
> 
> can anyone give me feedback on how the application process compares to emerald urethane? Also, obviously the 2k is better than emerald but what about the 1k? Is it better than emerald as well? I’m worried about the dangers of the chemicals in the catalyst. Can either of them be brushed or rolled? I plan on spraying but just wondering about for touchups or certain areas that I sometimes brush or roll. What’s the main difference between the 1k and 2k? How about the primers they offer, how do they compare to other primers? Any other tips or tricks or advice would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thank yall!


Their numbering system needs a re-work so it's less confusing but personally, I love the 400 series. To me it's as hard as their 1K and about $20 a gallon less. (I haven't used the 2K) Has a 35 minute recoat time and will stick to an alkyd without a primer. You can brush and roll it some, but you need to get it the way you want it pretty quickly then leave it alone. Someone told me you can add some of the Benjamin Moore extender in it to help when brushing but I haven't tried it yet. I like the Command product also but this has more of an interior alkyd look and feel to it. The only issue I've had is that if you're doing a lot of caulking, it will pull on it when trying to adhere and look like the caulking has cracked. Command does it also especially with better Elastomeric and Urethane Acrylic caulks.

Emerald doesn't seem to be as hard since they reformulated it. Seems to marr much more easily. I think they just matched Cabinet Coat.

I also like their CW-1108 primer. It's like an interior only version of Stix that is easy to spray, very sag resistant and sands out nicely. Buyer beware though on the 1107 2K primer. The Rep described it as a "grain filling primer" for stain to paint projects and it wasn't.


----------



## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

Emerald is a 1K urethane. A 2K urethane has a much quicker cure time (days not weeks) and better chemical & mar resistance. Below are pics of a demonstration I did on a job site for a client.


----------



## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Austinbazar said:


> Hello everyone, currently I use emerald urethane on cabinets, but like everyone else I’m hearing great things about the 1k and 2k products.
> 
> can anyone give me feedback on how the application process compares to emerald urethane? Also, obviously the 2k is better than emerald but what about the 1k? Is it better than emerald as well? I’m worried about the dangers of the chemicals in the catalyst. Can either of them be brushed or rolled? I plan on spraying but just wondering about for touchups or certain areas that I sometimes brush or roll. What’s the main difference between the 1k and 2k? How about the primers they offer, how do they compare to other primers? Any other tips or tricks or advice would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thank yall!


Centurions main product is the 2800 series 1k/2k urethane. you can use it straight from the can or catalyzed 5-25%. It sands to a powder easy and yes I have brushed and rolled relatively large panels. Have even touched up panels that were sprayed with catalyzed product and touched up onsite with uncatalyzed applied with a prodooz 3/8. 

Emererald isn't even close. Adhesion, hardness, look, feel, curing in dark colors, mil build, flexibility etc.

Also centurion will support tinting on benjaminmoore gennex


----------



## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Redux said:


> Emerald is a 1K urethane. A 2K urethane has a much quicker cure time (days not weeks) and better chemical & mar resistance. Below are pics of a demonstration I did on a job site for a client.


I don't believe emerald is a 1K product, its really more of a hybrid waterborne alkyd. cabinetcoat or command are 1K products


----------



## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

Great thread, I've been wondering about this myself a lot lately. In what category would scuffx fall, anyone know? 

I usually don't use Sherwin-Williams except when requested by clients, but my rep did comp me a gallon of Sherwood primer (runny as all get out) and then a gallon of 'Sherwood waterborne coating' ( a bit more like paint). I believe its a 1K. That stuff dried quick and laid really tight and crisp, although tricky on verticals. I doubt it's any better than any others but it's the only one I've used, so it's my point of reference to the 1k world. 

I like the sound of Centurion from what I've heard from you guys on here, plus the fact that it's made in the USA and it sounds like their customer service is pretty good too. If I can figure out how to spray them on verticals I'd probably jump up to 1k and eventually the 2K, once I get comfortable with the safety process for that.


----------



## monarchski (Jun 21, 2019)

fromthenorthwest said:


> Great thread, I've been wondering about this myself a lot lately. In what category would scuffx fall, anyone know?
> 
> I usually don't use Sherwin-Williams except when requested by clients, but my rep did comp me a gallon of Sherwood primer (runny as all get out) and then a gallon of 'Sherwood waterborne coating' ( a bit more like paint). I believe its a 1K. That stuff dried quick and laid really tight and crisp, although tricky on verticals. I doubt it's any better than any others but it's the only one I've used, so it's my point of reference to the 1k world.
> 
> I like the sound of Centurion from what I've heard from you guys on here, plus the fact that it's made in the USA and it sounds like their customer service is pretty good too. If I can figure out how to spray them on verticals I'd probably jump up to 1k and eventually the 2K, once I get comfortable with the safety process for that.


Scuffx to me is more like Pro Classic hybrid (as far as hardness) but it has a very unique look and feel to it. Almost feels like Velvet. I believe the CIC 400 line is classified as a 1K and it's not that hard to spray on verticals at all. I like either a Titan 410 FF tip or a Tritech 308.


----------



## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

Any coating not requiring a catalyst, activator, or hardener is a single component, one pack, or 1K coating, whether it be Behr latex wall paint, Minwax Polyacrylic, nitrocellulose lacquer, and so on.


----------



## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Redux said:


> Any coating not requiring a catalyst, activator, or hardener is a single component, one pack, or 1K coating, whether it be Behr latex wall paint, Minwax Polyacrylic, nitrocellulose lacquer, and so on.


Not to be mistaken for 1k /2k Urethane, which is what most of those newer cabinet grade coatings are. They actually have to have Urethane in them which most latex paints don't. But yes still 1k!


----------



## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

monarchski said:


> Scuffx to me is more like Pro Classic hybrid (as far as hardness) but it has a very unique look and feel to it. Almost feels like Velvet. I believe the CIC 400 line is classified as a 1K and it's not that hard to spray on verticals at all. I like either a Titan 410 FF tip or a Tritech 308.


the 400 series is acrylic, doesn't have the chemical and mar resistance, hardness or flexiblity of a urethane. better price point though


----------



## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

monarchski said:


> Scuffx to me is more like Pro Classic hybrid (as far as hardness) but it has a very unique look and feel to it. Almost feels like Velvet. I believe the CIC 400 line is classified as a 1K and it's not that hard to spray on verticals at all. I like either a Titan 410 FF tip or a Tritech 308.


scuffx is its own proprietary wax modified acrylic resin. The new Aura has some of this resin too a BM chemist came up with so with other BM products heavliy patented so it will be a while before other manufacturers have anything like it


----------



## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> scuffx is its own proprietary wax modified acrylic resin. The new Aura has some of this resin too a BM chemist came up with so with other BM products heavliy patented so it will be a while before other manufacturers have anything like it


That's interesting. Have you had any feedback from customers as far as hand oils on cabinets? Maybe this particular resin is more resistant to them.


----------



## Austinbazar (Dec 19, 2017)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Centurions main product is the 2800 series 1k/2k urethane. you can use it straight from the can or catalyzed 5-25%. It sands to a powder easy and yes I have brushed and rolled relatively large panels. Have even touched up panels that were sprayed with catalyzed product and touched up onsite with uncatalyzed applied with a prodooz 3/8.
> 
> Emererald isn't even close. Adhesion, hardness, look, feel, curing in dark colors, mil build, flexibility etc.
> 
> Also centurion will support tinting on benjaminmoore gennex


Thanks for the help, I would normally prime with oil, but customer wants all waterbased products. Cabinets are currently stained. What waterbased primer would you recommend, looking for good adhesion and stain blocking. Might be asking too much of a waterbased but I could be wrong.


----------



## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Austinbazar said:


> Thanks for the help, I would normally prime with oil, but customer wants all waterbased products. Cabinets are currently stained. What waterbased primer would you recommend, looking for good adhesion and stain blocking. Might be asking too much of a waterbased but I could be wrong.


1107 blocks tannin and dye migration and very good adhesion...


----------



## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> 1107 blocks tannin and dye migration and very good adhesion...


 So is that stuff also really filling old oak grain without backrolling, or is this just all talk. I would have to see it to believe it. I find even after multiple coats of product that if I don't backroll at least 1 of the coats, it's not getting into those craters.


----------



## monarchski (Jun 21, 2019)

finishesbykevyn said:


> So is that stuff also really filling old oak grain without backrolling, or is this just all talk. I would have to see it to believe it. I find even after multiple coats of product that if I don't backroll at least 1 of the coats, it's not getting into those craters.


It's not grain filling without back rolling. Back roll your first coat and then sand it down almost completely then spray a second and you'll be good to go.


----------



## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

monarchski said:


> It's not grain filling without back rolling. Back roll your first coat and then sand it down almost completely then spray a second and you'll be good to go.


Ya, that's what I currently do. Atleast on the fronts of the doors.


----------



## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

finishesbykevyn said:


> So is that stuff also really filling old oak grain without backrolling, or is this just all talk. I would have to see it to believe it. I find even after multiple coats of product that if I don't backroll at least 1 of the coats, it's not getting into those craters.


Have you tried using an HVLP and a heavier needle set to intentionally apply a thicker mil? Sand it back after it dries level. Would be more efficient than back rolling each one.


----------



## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Holland said:


> Have you tried using an HVLP and a heavier needle set to intentionally apply a thicker mil? Sand it back after it dries level. Would be more efficient than back rolling each one.


Yep. I find even after 4 coats of product that the craters on Oak just don't get filled properly. I definitely wouldn't want to over apply my product, especially on the boxes or it would surely sag. Backrolling has been my only remedy. Is No one else backrolling oak cabinets? I agree it's a pain in the rear.


----------



## fromthenorthwest (May 2, 2012)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Yep. I find even after 4 coats of product that the craters on Oak just don't get filled properly. I definitely wouldn't want to over apply my product, especially on the boxes or it would surely sag. Backrolling has been my only remedy. Is No one else backrolling oak cabinets? I agree it's a pain in the rear.


We usually back roll oak cabinets too.

I was experimenting on a job with heavy sanding between the first and second primer coat. I was able to get the oak smooth, but I then started having all kinds of problems with the top coat with the micro-bubble/pitting/solvent pop issues that I mentioned a while back. After that I gave up trying to heavily sand oak. Although I think it may have been some chemistry issues between the smart prime and scuff x, in tandem with with the heavy sanding, not just the heavy sanding itself.


----------



## Austinbazar (Dec 19, 2017)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> 1107 blocks tannin and dye migration and very good adhesion...


Thank you, I’m assuming that’s with the catalyst, have you ever used it without catalyzing it? Or does it have to be catalyzed to even work at all? What tip size do you use for that primer, and what tip size do you typically use for their topcoats? Thanks again for all your help. Looking forward to trying them out this week.


----------

