# New guy having trouble with hairspray on the wall.



## Brandon (NE Indiana) (Dec 22, 2013)

I just repainted a bathroom for a customer and apparently there has been heavy hairspray use at some point. The paint didn't really adhere well. 

What's the best method for prepping this before I paint next time and how can I fix this job?

Ive ran into this a lot in rental repaints and just hit it with multiple coats but Id prefer to a better job for home owners. 

Thanks in advance!


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

I always just assume there's going to be hairspray overspray on bathroom walls. Give them a good wash with a rag and just plain water ahead of time. It's almost impossible to see it on the walls ahead of time, so assume it's on the walls behind the mirror for sure.


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## Brandon (NE Indiana) (Dec 22, 2013)

How do I fix my hack job on this one??


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

New drywall. :jester:

Always a good idea to wash walls before painting with a mild degreaser. 

Especially in kitchen and baths or anywhere that has seen a lot of hand traffic.


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## Brandon (NE Indiana) (Dec 22, 2013)

Wow....


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## Brandon (NE Indiana) (Dec 22, 2013)

Im always reminded of why I spend more time on BiggerPockets when I come here.....


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## Exactoman (Mar 28, 2013)

Sander. Drywall repair. Prime n paint.


Sent from my iPad using PaintTalk.com


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Exactoman said:


> Sander. Drywall repair. Prime n paint.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using PaintTalk.com


OIL prime after the sand. :thumbsup:


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## Brandon (NE Indiana) (Dec 22, 2013)

Exactoman said:


> Sander. Drywall repair. Prime n paint.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using PaintTalk.com



Thanks Exactoman!! 

Ive enjoyed your posts btw and you seem to be the type of painter Im looking to be. 

I was thinking that would be my best approach but wondered if anyone had a better method.


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## Brandon (NE Indiana) (Dec 22, 2013)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> OIL prime after the sand. :thumbsup:



Would there be any issues with going over the oil with latex? How long before I should do so?


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## Heatho (Oct 19, 2013)

99% of the time Latex topcoats oil primer, so no... It'll be fine. I encounter this in rentals also and always hit them with Kilz(in a spray can) prior to paint. 


Sent from my iPhone using PaintTalk.com


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## harmonicarocks (Nov 29, 2013)

Hairspray is trouble with a capital T. Several years ago I did a job painting doors and some wide trim on the main floor of a large home. I primed with latex and it worked fine except for the bathroom. After priming and 2 topcoats it looked fine when I was done. Two weeks later I got a call re: bathroom door. You could easily scratch it off with your fingernail. I had to take the door home, totally strip it and start over(on my nickel of course), and strip the casing on the bathroom side. From now on, its Cover Stain over hairspray.


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## oldccm (Jan 23, 2013)

2 coats of BIN


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## MIZZOU (Nov 18, 2012)

Me: yeah that bathroom repaints gonna be around $500

HO: for a bathroom?!?

Hairspray, toilets, hair, tight quarters, and other nastiness. Painting bathrooms is like staining decks, rarely walk away from doing one and felt glad I did it.


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## journeymanPainter (Feb 26, 2014)

MIZZOU said:


> Me: yeah that bathroom repaints gonna be around $500
> 
> HO: for a bathroom?!?
> 
> Hairspray, toilets, hair, tight quarters, and other nastiness. Painting bathrooms is like staining decks, rarely walk away from doing one and felt glad I did it.


I always charge more than usual for bathrooms. I hate having to stuck my face where someone just took a dump

Sent from my SGH-T989D using Tapatalk


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Brandon (NE Indiana) said:


> Would there be any issues with going over the oil with latex?:blink: How long before I should do so?


 
and you call yourself a PAINTER? what kind of question is that

the DIY forum is nextdoor

harsh? why yes, but come on, get real


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## The 3rd Coat (Aug 17, 2013)

A while ago I had a bathroom job where the previous painter went over old oil with acrylic without prep and/or priming. Top layer was peeling off.
Scrape the entire loose layer, wash, brush off, bonding primer. Doesn't need to be oil. To achieve maximum penetration, I'd use Zinsser Smart Prime.


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## Brandon (NE Indiana) (Dec 22, 2013)

chrisn said:


> and you call yourself a PAINTER? what kind of question is that
> 
> the DIY forum is nextdoor
> 
> harsh? why yes, but come on, get real



I called myself a "New Guy".....it's right up there in the subject line. You must've missed it. I guess it's hard to read such a small screen with a head that big.

It really is amazing how different the mentality is on this forum (by some, not all) vs. the real estate investing forum I spend a lot of time on.

I'm a landlord 1st and foremost. Painting is a side business. I'll probably never achieve the skill level of many here. That will be due to the fact that I don't have to paint full time to pay the bills. I'm not knocking it believe me. I just prefer to do deals and work on my own properties vs. dealing with homeowners.

I'm just painting to be able to continue to grow my rental business at the same pace I have been for the past few years. 

To those on this board who are actually here to help each other and myself, you are appreciated!


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

This forum is for professional painters.


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## Brandon (NE Indiana) (Dec 22, 2013)

straight_lines said:


> This forum is for professional painters.


So I guess what youre saying is that no one should ever attempt to learn from the others on this site due to the fact that they should already know everything. 

Forums are meant for a place for those with the desire to learn something from those who have a desire to give back. 

Im thankful for those who understand that. 

If you ever want to know how to buy a million dollars in real estate in a couple years with very little capital while earning $14/hour come on over Id be happy to help you out. 

There are multiple ways of teaching, some work and some just annoy the student.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

If you get paid to do a task. I think by definition ur a professional. That said most of the guys on the sight painting is their bread and butter not a side job. If I were the OP and wanted to be taken seriously on the site as a painter I'd drop the horn tutin about what a real estate mogul I am. Nobody cares. And it gives the impression that ur painting prowess is limited to ur own rental turnovers.


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## Brandon (NE Indiana) (Dec 22, 2013)

Oden said:


> If you get paid to do a task. I think by definition ur a professional. That said most of the guys on the sight painting is their bread and butter not a side job. If I were the OP and wanted to be taken seriously on the site as a painter I'd drop the horn tutin about what a real estate mogul I am. Nobody cares. And it gives the impression that ur painting prowess is limited to ur own rental turnovers.


I did that. "New Guy" in the subject line and asked how to fix my "hack" job. 

I get that most people here paint for a living and I plan on doing that for the next few years so I can reinvest my rental cash flow. I'm here to learn. Most people that see my work think I'm a great painter. I know I am not. Just better than most homeowners. 

I've spent far more time reading this forum rather than posting and I surely haven't been posting advice. I've been asking questions. Its a turn off the way some of the posters just post some BS response for whatever reason vs. contributing something meaningful. If you want the same 7-8 guys talking among themselves then maybe they should start a private facebook message thread or something. If new people are constantly bashed that's essentially what this forum will turn into. I've seen it on another forum and now that place is all but dead. 

I've got my advice I was seeking from Exactoman and others. I thank them for them rising to the occasion.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Oden said:


> If you get paid to do a task. I think by definition ur a professional. .






























Exactly. That is all that word means.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Brandon (NE Indiana) said:


> So I guess what youre saying is that no one should ever attempt to learn from the others on this site due to the fact that they should already know everything.
> 
> Forums are meant for a place for those with the desire to learn something from those who have a desire to give back.
> 
> ...


No what I am saying is that basic painting questions like the ones you ask should be posted in the DIY chatroom instead. This forum has always been for professional painters.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

All my days I never had this hairspray problem. And I have never cleaned or wiped down walls either. I do run a pole sander over walls that I'm repainting though. It is standard operating procedure for me to pole sand first. Maybe that is why I never had the problem.


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## Brandon (NE Indiana) (Dec 22, 2013)

Oden said:


> All my days I never had this hairspray problem. And I have never cleaned or wiped down walls either. I do run a pole sander over walls that I'm repainting though. It is standard operating procedure for me to pole sand first. Maybe that is why I never had the problem.


Ordering one now from Home Depot. That looks like a great tool. 

I last ran into this issue on a ceiling in a rental repaint (not my property). Three coats and it covered fine. Like I said though Id prefer to do it right for HO's.


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## Gough (Nov 24, 2010)

Oden said:


> All my days I never had this hairspray problem. And I have never cleaned or wiped down walls either. I do run a pole sander over walls that I'm repainting though. It is standard operating procedure for me to pole sand first. Maybe that is why I never had the problem.


Never had the hairspray issue either, I wonder if it's a regional thing.

Not much "big hair" around here.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Oden said:


> All my days I never had this hairspray problem. And I have never cleaned or wiped down walls either. I do run a pole sander over walls that I'm repainting though. It is standard operating procedure for me to pole sand first. Maybe that is why I never had the problem.


If you ever get a call to repaint a salon you should remember this thread. 

Hair spray and dye...


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## Brandon (NE Indiana) (Dec 22, 2013)

straight_lines said:


> If you ever get a call to repaint a salon you should remember this thread.
> 
> Hair spray and dye...


:thumbup::thumbup:


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## Carl (Jun 18, 2011)

Have fun using that pole sander the first few times. Let us know how many times you flip the head over while sanding and dig into the wall a bit.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Don't buy one of the old style rectangular ones. 

These are so much better. 
http://www.fullcircleinternational.com/radius360.html


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## Brandon (NE Indiana) (Dec 22, 2013)

Yeah I can see where the circular ones would be far easier to use!


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

straight_lines said:


> Don't buy one of the old style rectangular ones.
> 
> These are so much better.
> http://www.fullcircleinternational.com/radius360.html


Yeah, there a dream compared to the old rectangle ones. I borrowed one from a drywall guy one day and immediately there after, went and bought one. Well worth the money.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

We have been using them for a few years. Get the triangle one too, awesome for sanding drywall.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> We have been using them for a few years. Get the triangle one too, awesome for sanding drywall.


I'm still using the rectangle one. :whistling2:

BUT, one of these days I'm going to get around to buying the Wooster triangle one. I _still_ on occasion flip the old school one and it drives me nuts.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> If you ever get a call to repaint a salon you should remember this thread.
> 
> Hair spray and dye...


Last summer I painted a small second floor bathroom. It was a tight room and had a sloped ceiling right by the mirror. Well, where her teenage boys stood and put on the hairspray had about 1/2" of gunk caked on the ceiling! I was gagging just trying to get that crap off.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> I'm still using the rectangle one. :whistling2:
> 
> BUT, one of these days I'm going to get around to buying the Wooster triangle one. I _still_ on occasion flip the old school one and it drives me nuts.


They make a rectangle one as well, never tried it but its JP approved. :jester:


http://www.fullcircleinternational.com/flexedge.html


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

straight_lines said:


> They make a rectangle one as well, never tried it but its JP approved. :jester:
> 
> 
> http://www.fullcircleinternational.com/flexedge.html


He always favors tools that are orange. 

Makes sense. Easier to spot in the trunk. 

:jester:


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Brandon (NE Indiana) said:


> So I guess what youre saying is that no one should ever attempt to learn from the others on this site due to the fact that they should already know everything.
> 
> Forums are meant for a place for those with the desire to learn something from those who have a desire to give back.
> 
> ...


 
if you are such a real estate tycoon, what are you doing attempting to paint?, hire a real painter


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## Monstertruck (Oct 26, 2013)

chrisn said:


> if you are such a real estate tycoon, what are you doing attempting to paint?, hire a real painter


It is a bit confusing, isn't it?
Perhaps it's part of his platinum 'retirement plan'.:blink:


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Brandon (NE Indiana) said:


> So I guess what youre saying is that no one should ever attempt to learn from the others on this site due to the fact that they should already know everything.
> 
> Forums are meant for a place for those with the desire to learn something from those who have a desire to give back.
> 
> ...


I believe that's called leveraging, which in my simple way of seeing things means taking on a lot of debt. Donald Trump has seemingly been successful with this business model and....................wait a minute. Didn't this thread start out talking about _hairspray_?

Oh hell, Donald, is that you?! Get off this board, this is for professional painters! 

:jester::jester::jester:


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## Brandon (NE Indiana) (Dec 22, 2013)

chrisn said:


> if you are such a real estate tycoon, what are you doing attempting to paint?, hire a real painter


Ive been working in a factory since HS and the last 3 years ive been buying properties and building a great rental company. I do as much of the work myself to reinvest profits into buying more properties. Why pay $50/hour an for a painter when I skip some sleep and do it myself?

Ive recently got to the point where the job was getting in the way of the business and the business could replace my income. However I want to continue to grow the business, hence the desire to make some extra cash painting.

Its nice too because I have enough write-offs with the rentals that I can earn $40-50K and not pay taxes on it 

Why not work some??


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## Brandon (NE Indiana) (Dec 22, 2013)

slinger58 said:


> I believe that's called leveraging, which in my simple way of seeing things means taking on a lot of debt. Donald Trump has seemingly been successful with this business model and....................wait a minute. Didn't this thread start out talking about _hairspray_?
> 
> Oh hell, Donald, is that you?! Get off this board, this is for professional painters!
> 
> :jester::jester::jester:


That's the basic principle.....

However banks will only lend within certain parameters for LTV and number of properties so you have to be creative to do the stuff the way I do it. Not tooting my horn here just making an example. Last year I did 6 deals for a total of $514k or something like that with less than $3500 in total cash down payments combined. 

Less than 1 percent down. 

The portfolio cash flows pretty well still. The advantage of being in the mid-west.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Brandon (NE Indiana) said:


> That's the basic principle.....
> 
> However banks will only lend within certain parameters for LTV and number of properties so you have to be creative to do the stuff the way I do it. Not tooting my horn here just making an example. Last year I did 6 deals for a total of $514k or something like that with less than $3500 in total cash down payments combined.
> 
> ...


So last year you took on $510,000.00 of debt to acquire title to 6 properties.

You have a "pretty well" cash flow, but can still offset enough to be tax-free on 40-50k of earned income?

Yeah, I know the depreciation write-off on real estate can offset a lot of income. The problem comes when that "paper" loss on depreciation becomes a loss in value in real life. 

Not trying to put you down, Brandon. We old painters get weary of talking about latex over oil primers (almost never a problem), so the subject of investing in real estate is a welcome diversion.:yes:

I wish you well.


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## Pete Martin the Painter (Nov 8, 2012)

MIZZOU said:


> Me: yeah that bathroom repaints gonna be around $500
> 
> HO: for a bathroom?!?
> 
> Hairspray, toilets, hair, tight quarters, and other nastiness. Painting bathrooms is like staining decks, rarely walk away from doing one and felt glad I did it.


I often find HO that think size is the only thing that should determine cost. Explain to them that the smaller rooms are more of a pain and take longer relative to size than the bigger rooms were it is easy to move around.


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## Heatho (Oct 19, 2013)

It didn't bother me that you asked an elementary question. I've been painting for 13 years but in a very narrow field of it, which means I don't know many of the basic things when it comes to certain aspects of "painting". The only dumb question is the one not asked... In my opinion. 


Sent from my iPhone using PaintTalk.com


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Kinda like cutting and rolling a closet, more time per sq.ft. than a den or bedroom.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

slinger58 said:


> So last year you took on $510,000.00 of debt to acquire title to 6 properties. You have a "pretty well" cash flow, but can still offset enough to be tax-free on 40-50k of earned income? Yeah, I know the depreciation write-off on real estate can offset a lot of income. The problem comes when that "paper" loss on depreciation becomes a loss in value in real life. Not trying to put you down, Brandon. We old painters get weary of talking about latex over oil primers (almost never a problem), so the subject of investing in real estate is a welcome diversion.:yes: I wish you well.


Long story short.
Death and taxes. Lol
You take the depreciation but meanwhile the property value is more than likely going up. Cant cash out. Capital gains. Plus the bank notes. Nothing left.


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## Brandon (NE Indiana) (Dec 22, 2013)

slinger58 said:


> So last year you took on $510,000.00 of debt to acquire title to 6 properties.
> 
> You have a "pretty well" cash flow, but can still offset enough to be tax-free on 40-50k of earned income?
> 
> ...


 Thanks. 4 of those properties were multi-units and I have more than those to help with the tax breaks.


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## Brandon (NE Indiana) (Dec 22, 2013)

Heatho said:


> It didn't bother me that you asked an elementary question. I've been painting for 13 years but in a very narrow field of it, which means I don't know many of the basic things when it comes to certain aspects of "painting". The only dumb question is the one not asked... In my opinion.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using PaintTalk.com


That's the proper attitude IMO and an attitude that will help improve the forums for everyone. I only got off on real estate because if someone asks a basic question on that forum someone answers it without being condescending. If something isn't all that interesting to me, or for a lack of a better way to put it, not worth my time discussing there I just skip the question and wait for a discussion that I may learn something as well as help someone else.


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## Brandon (NE Indiana) (Dec 22, 2013)

Oden said:


> Long story short.
> Death and taxes. Lol
> You take the depreciation but meanwhile the property value is more than likely going up. Cant cash out. Capital gains. Plus the bank notes. Nothing left.


Sooner or later yes, maybe. 

I plan on doing 1031 exchanges (tax-free) later in life to roll into some triple net commercial properties to hopefully leave for my kiddos.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Hairspray, oil primer, pole-sanders, real estate investment and a authentic chrisn rant. 

You can't get that just _anywhere_ on the internet! :thumbup:


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Brandon (NE Indiana) said:


> Ive been working in a factory since HS and the last 3 years ive been buying properties and building a great rental company. I do as much of the work myself to reinvest profits into buying more properties. Why pay $50/hour an for a painter when I skip some sleep and do it myself?
> 
> Ive recently got to the point where the job was getting in the way of the business and the business could replace my income. However I want to continue to grow the business, hence the desire to make some extra cash painting.
> 
> ...


 
because they might actually know how to paint:notworthy:

beside, as mentioned, this site is for professional painters, the DIY site is next door

where the hell are the mods


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## Monstertruck (Oct 26, 2013)

Chrisn makes an interesting point.
Would Branden's time be better spent developing his real estate empire and paying others to maintain it or starting a painting business from scratch in order to save some $$$?


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## Brandon (NE Indiana) (Dec 22, 2013)

From reading many posts on apartment painting here, im pretty sure im up to standards in that area....

So yeah, ill not be paying anyone to paint my apartments while Im still building my business (rental business). I did hire someone at $15/hr on a couple last year.


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## Brandon (NE Indiana) (Dec 22, 2013)

Monstertruck said:


> Chrisn makes an interesting point.
> Would Branden's time be better spent developing his real estate empire and paying others to maintain it or starting a painting business from scratch in order to save some $$$?



I do pay lots of others for things I don't know how to do or have a desire to do such as plumbing, accounting, I have an attorney, and I hire out bigger projects to a great $25/hr handyman.

Painting on the side isn't going to take as much energy marketing/building the business as it would if I needed to do it full-time. I do plan on doing this for a few years for customers, therefore I am a new guy here to learn from those willing to share their knowledge.

My cash flow may be to the point in a couple of years where I could focus 100% on deal making and hire everything out but I don't know that id want to at this point in my life. I enjoy the work, kind of like many of you who actually paint vs just running your company.


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## Monstertruck (Oct 26, 2013)

Brandon (NE Indiana) said:


> I do pay lots of others for things I don't know how to do or have a desire to do such as plumbing, accounting, I have an attorney, and I hire out bigger projects to a great $25/hr handyman.
> 
> Painting on the side isn't going to take as much energy marketing/building the business as it would if I needed to do it full-time. I do plan on doing this for a few years for customers, therefore I am a new guy here to learn from those willing to share their knowledge.
> 
> My cash flow may be to the point in a couple of years where I could focus 100% on deal making and hire everything out but I don't know that id want to at this point in my life. *I enjoy the work, kind of like many of you who actually paint vs just running your company*.


 Hey, I resemble that remark!



Sounds like you have the motivation.
Hopefully you can sort out the details.
Perhaps you can hire a skilled painter that will help you deal with the technical side of things.


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