# Wont be painting anymore...just estimating and running a sales team



## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

The next job I have starting on Tuesday will be my last day painting...even though i love painting...some days, not so much. Painting all day, estimating at night and marketing has become to much for one man to take care of. I have one painter at the moment working for me. I'm assembling a 20 man sales crew to knock on doors all day long for a few months and then i will train them how to paint. Already have 6 applicants so just waiting for the rest to arrive. this should be interesting


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Roflmao. Good luck with that. Ever heard of these two words, "cash flow?"

Feeding the beast is not for the faint of heart.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

youll be through 100 guys before you ever see anything close to a fulltime 20 man sales crew and im not even gonna comment on the part about how your gonna train them to paint afterwards (somebody get that monkey a football comes to mind)





APRILS FOOLS right??............cant be, its only september :blink:


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Am I back in the drug testing thread? I gotta get this computer fixed.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Westview said:


> The next job I have starting on Tuesday will be my last day painting...even though i love painting...some days, not so much. Painting all day, estimating at night and marketing has become to much for one man to take care of. I have one painter at the moment working for me. I'm assembling a 20 man sales crew to knock on doors all day long for a few months and then i will train them how to paint. Already have 6 applicants so just waiting for the rest to arrive. this should be interesting


That's a bold move! Hope it works out well for you. What prompted you to make a move like that?


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

Westview said:


> - The next job I have starting on Tuesday will be my last day painting.
> - I have one painter at the moment working for me.
> - I'm assembling a 20 man sales crew to knock on doors all day long for a few months
> - then i will train them how to paint.
> ...


 
i highlighted the important part :whistling2:


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## Scannell Painting (Sep 25, 2010)

Yep, odds are that you won't be painting anymore. Best of luck.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Careful. Salesman training can be dangerous.






Caution: explicit


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

How will you be paying this sales force with no work coming in? Have you done tge math on 20 employees a week even at minimum wage?


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Paradigmzz said:


> How will you be paying this sales force with no work coming in? Have you done tge math on 20 employees a week even at minimum wage?


Straight up commission yo!


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## Painter-Aaron (Jan 17, 2013)

What would motivate you to get out of the bucket with only one employee at the time? If you are tired of having to do all your estimates at night, maybe schedule one day a week to do estimates, I believe someone here recently dedicated a couple days of just estimating. Or hire one more guy and that way even when you are off doing estimates there is still the production of two painters. 
I would be scared as Sh** to hire 20 newbies to sell my jobs, and then have to train 20 new painters at once while still maintaining all the administrative work that having 20 employees would give me. 
It might be plausible if you had a lot of capital, hired 20 experienced guys and you were guaranteed to land enough work to keep all them busy while still making good profits ..But there is always the serious cash flow that you would always need to have. Like Para Said, 20 employees at minimum wage adds up quickly every week


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

My goodness. A few MONTHS of 20 guys knocking on doors. Then, training to paint.

I would expect to blow through at least $200,000 before I would even have the tiniest chance of getting that machine moving. 

You know, the quickest way to make a small fortune in painting is to start with a large fortune.


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## Holly (Jun 14, 2011)

Tell us this is a joke? You have to be joking? If you aren't, I am truly appalled, on your behalf, by what you will be facing in the next few weeks, if it even lasts that long, and I pray for you that it won't. Cold calls by people with no painting experience--I can't think of a more expensive way to generate leads! Not to mention the chaos this will create for you--and these people will be representing you--what will this do to your reputation?

As someone who has been nailed six ways to Tuesday because of a single "misclassified worker" (and am still struggling with the details a full 3 years later), I have to tell you that if you aren't putting these people legally on payroll, you are asking for the biggest headache of your life, especially if work gets thin and these people apply for unemployment--it is guaranteed that at least one of them will--and then you'll have hell to pay. 

And, by putting these people on payroll, you are adding so much additional paperwork to your life--even if you hire a payroll company--that you still won't be putting as much time as you want into the parts of the business you want to focus on. And...they'll apply for unemployment, and your SUTA payments will become a significant chunk of your payroll expenses.

I don't want to shoot down your idea of getting out of the bucket--I'm sure you can do it--but I am truly anguished by your current plan. Please take the time to evaluate your strengths and weaknesses, ask people's advice here on painttalk, and find an experienced, friendly non-competing business owner like a plumber or electrician to run your ideas past.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

Not sure why everyone is fussing about this. Student Painters does the same thing. Has their employees doing door to door selling jobs. I know I used to work for them along time ago. I had no idea on what I was talking about but I did land several jobs for the company. They just gave me a piece of paper telling me to remember it and say it to the people who open their door.

Sheeze, calm down people.

Pat


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Poll: Do you drug test your employer?


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## Holly (Jun 14, 2011)

PatsPainting said:


> Not sure why everyone is fussing about this. Student Painters does the same thing. Has their employees doing door to door selling jobs. I know I used to work for them along time ago. I had no idea on what I was talking about but I did land several jobs for the company. They just gave me a piece of paper telling me to remember it and say it to the people who open their door.
> 
> Sheeze, calm down people.
> 
> Pat


My own experience has made me pretty paranoid, I'll admit. 

So how did you land the jobs? Did you basically get the customer interested and then make an appointment for the estimator to come?


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## AztecPainting (Jan 28, 2010)

This thread must be a freaking joke, otherwise you might be nuts...


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

Holly said:


> My own experience has made me pretty paranoid, I'll admit.
> 
> So how did you land the jobs? Did you basically get the customer interested and then make an appointment for the estimator to come?


Yep, I would just say we are in the neighborhood and we are students working the summer away painting houses. Would you like a free estimate to paint your house. 

Something along those lines. I can't remember the exact details. But it worked. We had to do this like 2-3 times a week after work. We would spend a few hours doing door to door.

Pat


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

It is a business model I guess. Of course, we know the reputation college pro enjoys as well. 

I have taken the grow slow model. Shoot, sometimes I think I could make more by shrinking.


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## cdaniels (Oct 20, 2012)

I won't be painting any more either.Only problem is I won't be painting any less.:whistling2:


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## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

Holly said:


> Tell us this is a joke? You have to be joking? If you aren't, I am truly appalled, on your behalf, by what you will be facing in the next few weeks, if it even lasts that long, and I pray for you that it won't. Cold calls by people with no painting experience--I can't think of a more expensive way to generate leads! Not to mention the chaos this will create for you--and these people will be representing you--what will this do to your reputation?
> 
> As someone who has been nailed six ways to Tuesday because of a single "misclassified worker" (and am still struggling with the details a full 3 years later), I have to tell you that if you aren't putting these people legally on payroll, you are asking for the biggest headache of your life, especially if work gets thin and these people apply for unemployment--it is guaranteed that at least one of them will--and then you'll have hell to pay.
> 
> ...


Gotta love those unemployment rates when you lay people off every year. ..... That's why 99% of painters here have no one on payroll. Actually most have no legal employees period. Pat is right though its how the franchises do it but I also have seen so many of them fail can't tell ya the number of ex CP owners who applied for jobs with us. That's both CP"s .


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

He was talking about getting out of the bucket with only 1 painter THEN hiring a 20 man sales team ....... Find me 1 franchise that does that


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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

They are not paid hourly. They are paid commission for signed contracts. This is how Student works does it. Training them to paint is still up in the air. I'm leaning towards not having them paint.



Paradigmzz said:


> How will you be paying this sales force with no work coming in? Have you done tge math on 20 employees a week even at minimum wage?


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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

For all of the negative people out there that are getting a little emotional. This is a proven successful business model that works. One of the most successful painting franchises in the painting industry uses it. I have a guy working for me that used to work for student works and he paints just fine. Will I let these guys paint? Maybe but I’m leaning towards no.


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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

Ole34 said:


> He was talking about getting out of the bucket with only 1 painter THEN hiring a 20 man sales team ....... Find me 1 franchise that does that


Student works and college pro painters do it.


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## Holly (Jun 14, 2011)

thinkpainting/nick said:


> Gotta love those unemployment rates when you lay people off every year. ..... That's why 99% of painters here have no one on payroll. Actually most have no legal employees period. Pat is right though its how the franchises do it but I also have seen so many of them fail can't tell ya the number of ex CP owners who applied for jobs with us. That's both CP"s .


Yes. It's tough! 

For the last year I've been part of a kind of painters' co-op, where we (each of us legal, insured, sole-proprietors) pool our jobs and everybody gets paid the same hourly rate. That's the best I've managed so far, with the most peace of mind because everyone is equally invested in the work and it's a nice mix of personalities--2-5 of us at any given time, and we can take on the larger jobs. I'm still the one bringing in 80% of the jobs at the moment, but at least I'll be getting 1099s from the others. It's not perfect, but the stress is way lower.


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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

Rbriggs82 said:


> That's a bold move! Hope it works out well for you. What prompted you to make a move like that?


I'm getting tired of painting all day and doing paper work all night. I'm going to give it a go for a month and see what happends.


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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

DeanV said:


> My goodness. A few MONTHS of 20 guys knocking on doors. Then, training to paint.
> 
> I would expect to blow through at least $200,000 before I would even have the tiniest chance of getting that machine moving.
> 
> You know, the quickest way to make a small fortune in painting is to start with a large fortune.


It will cost me nothing. They are paid commission for signed contracts. You are correct, I do not have enough money to pay all 20 an hourly wage.


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## Holly (Jun 14, 2011)

Westview said:


> For all of the negative people out there that are getting a little emotional. This is a proven successful business model that works. One of the most successful painting franchises in the painting industry uses it. I have a guy working for me that used to work for student works and he paints just fine. Will I let these guys paint? Maybe but I’m leaning towards no.


Westview, I apologize for getting "a little emotional" on you , I was totally projecting my own sucky experience into it, and know I would completely collapse having to deal with 20 people. 

The model for the Student painters thing sounds really interesting, actually, as one of the primary issues I've had all along is that I've had to hold my business back, because I can't do it all. My strengths are in marketing, scheduling (my mom would laugh at that), and defining the standard to which the work is to be done and then being on top it (since not everybody wants or needs A+ work). I'm a pretty good painter, but I like marketing and sales better. I'm sick of the late nights, too, and I'm raising a kid on my own. I might actually be in a good position to experiment with variations on the Student model, as I am doing a painters' co-op thing, and am bringing in most of the work; the other painters probably won't mind negotiating something.

Well, thanks for the air space, and I hope you will report on your progress with this, as I would watch it with great interest!


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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

CApainter said:


> Careful. Salesman training can be dangerous.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51B-sXtV_6g
> 
> Caution: explicit


lol. Loved it.


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

save yourself the headache an start out with 3-4 guys an see how it goes ....for the record i still think your nuts


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## AztecPainting (Jan 28, 2010)

Westview said:


> I'm getting tired of painting all day and doing paper work all night. I'm going to give it a go for a month and see what happends.


For a month? For a business to be able to tell if it works or not, it's a matter of long term.

Good grief thinking that College Pro and Student Works are a role model to follow, I'd hate my life, how much pride can you have? Selling jobs with people that has never touched a brush in their life... 

Good for you, and I'm not being emotional, I'm being highly disappointed, just when I thought this trade was taking back a good reputation...


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

So are you starting out with guys who aren't even salesmen? Training that many people to sell will be tough. 

Its been done plenty of times here in the states over the last 15 years, but the successful ones have sub contractors to paint and experienced salesmen to land the work. 

This model is popular with start ups and franchises because it requires the least amount of capital. It also shifts labor burdens off the company, and like Nick siad very few have anyone on the payroll short of office staff. Sales and installation are both sub contracted out. 

This doesn't really shift the liability burden away from the business owner like many think it does. It all comes back to the business, so keep that in mind.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Westview said:


> You are correct, I do not have enough money to pay all 20 an hourly wage.


21! Don't forget your full time guy. Hes going to be running his ass off with 20 estimators!


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## Painter-Aaron (Jan 17, 2013)

Why don't you just hire a good salesmen. Stay in the bucket till you have enough work to gradually hire the right guys to do the work for you. Maybe you have to pay that salesmen a tad bit more but it's a lot better then having 20 newbies on your payroll. 
And the best thing about this idea is that a experienced salesman will probably land you better profiting jobs. 

I


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

You need to remember why your business is successful and why your clients choose YOU to paint their home. I think you would lose most if not all of your personal advantage if trying to model yourself after these types of franchises.

The first thing in trying to go this route is: Do you actually have the manual or just trying to wing it from things you have read on this site? I wouldn't put any eggs in this basket without knowing what you are getting into.

Second: Why are you so busy at night? I run a single man operation. Schedule my estimates after work when convienent for the client. I am usually done with work at four. The meeting takes no more than an hour, then an hour at most to do the estimate and get it off by email. I use quickbooks and spend no more than a few hours a week inputting invoices. Bills are always due same time of the month, so no surprises there. If you are getting more work than you can handle, a helper which you sounds like you have, should reduce the strain and open up your estimating time. Sounds like you need to rework your business plan rather than change the plan altogether.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

What are you going to do if you actually land a boatload of jobs from all your salesforce? Tell them all to wait? I'd be pissed as a salesman if I had a job sold and couldn't get paid because the job was in infinite limbo. Not to mention if I sold a bunch of jobs. 

This may be against the grain, but to me being a business owner means being able to support all the families of those who work for me. All your offering these so called salesmen is a passing hobby.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Westview said:


> I'm getting tired of painting all day and doing paper work all night. I'm going to give it a go for a month and see what happends.





Westview said:


> It will cost me nothing. They are paid commission for signed contracts. You are correct, I do not have enough money to pay all 20 an hourly wage.





Paradigmzz said:


> What are you going to do if you actually land a boatload of jobs from all your salesforce? Tell them all to wait? I'd be pissed as a salesman if I had a job sold and couldn't get paid because the job was in infinite limbo. Not to mention if I sold a bunch of jobs.
> 
> This may be against the grain, but to me being a business owner means being able to support all the families of those who work for me. All your offering these so called salesmen is a passing hobby.


I'm with Tommy on this one WV. If your plan works it will cost you something. And then when are you planning on paying your people - from the deposit or after the jobs are completed?

Also, I hope your salespeople are aware that you are going to "try it for a month". The right and fair thing would be to make them aware up front that this is an experiment on your part and that they may be out of a job in a short period of time. With that being said, I hope they have more commitment to the business plan then you appear to have - but I doubt they will.


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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

RH said:


> I'm with Tommy on this one WV. If your plan works it will cost you something. And then when are you planning on paying your people - from the deposit or after the jobs are completed?
> 
> Also, I hope your salespeople are aware that you are going to "try it for a month". The right and fair thing would be to make them aware up front that this is an experiment on your part and that they may be out of a job in a short period of time. With that being said, I hope they have more commitment to the business plan then you appear to have - but I doubt they will.[/QUOT
> 
> ...


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## Jasonthep8nter (Aug 7, 2013)

Yeah I have seen these guys around, in my area its college works painting. Problem with these companies are they are painting franchises where all you basically need is alot of money an you now are an owner of a painting biz. They actually tell you you don't need any painting experience which I find f****n hilarious, painting experience might come in handy since you just bought a painting franchise lol! But yes there big buisness model is they sub out the actual work to real painters they want you to focus on selling jobs. As for an Established pro trying this model my hats off to you I wouldn't do it but to each his own IMO


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

My unsolicited free advice is call the small business administration or that organization of retired business owners that offer advice for free, I think it's called SCORE. I had a great mentor at the SBA who I could run things by. They have seen hundreds or thousands of businesses come and go and can offer good advice. Of course my problem isn't lack of advice or insight, it's just a lack of implementation and follow through.


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## glennb (Mar 7, 2012)

I think it's a great idea wv!! Fair enough your dreaming big but that's friggen awesome! Atleast you have a dream.. Scale it back though start with a couple of door knockers and see how they go.. My thoughts were the same . Iv heard that the door knockers get sick of it fast so it's important to have a list of people that can replace the drop outs. Commission it out. Start with having them set appointments for quotes and for the ones that are good teach them how to measure surfaces and take pictures with their smart phones. You review heir calculations and then do up a quote.. Have a few people whom you can sub out to and then your gunna be managing.. There would be tons of one and two man bands outa work that are probably pritty decent painters.. Don't listen to the nay Sayers that keep running down guys outa work sure some are crap it"ll all come down to your supervision of the subs and your ability to provide them with the projects expectations and if they don't deliver don't pay them , sure u"ll have head acks but that comes with it


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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

Ole34 said:


> save yourself the headache an start out with 3-4 guys an see how it goes ....for the record i still think your nuts


You wouldn't be the first one to call me nuts. :thumbup: Get in line.


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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

glennb said:


> I think it's a great idea wv!! Fair enough your dreaming big but that's friggen awesome! Atleast you have a dream.. Scale it back though start with a couple of door knockers and see how they go.. My thoughts were the same . Iv heard that the door knockers get sick of it fast so it's important to have a list of people that can replace the drop outs. Commission it out. Start with having them set appointments for quotes and for the ones that are good teach them how to measure surfaces and take pictures with their smart phones. You review heir calculations and then do up a quote.. Have a few people whom you can sub out to and then your gunna be managing.. There would be tons of one and two man bands outa work that are probably pritty decent painters.. Don't listen to the nay Sayers that keep running down guys outa work sure some are crap it"ll all come down to your supervision of the subs and your ability to provide them with the projects expectations and if they don't deliver don't pay them , sure u"ll have head acks but that comes with it


Thanks for the kind words. I'm going to try it out and see how it goes. Winter can get slow so I'm trying to prepare for it early. Cheers. You have some great ideas.


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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

Damon T said:


> My unsolicited free advice is call the small business administration or that organization of retired business owners that offer advice for free, I think it's called SCORE. I had a great mentor at the SBA who I could run things by. They have seen hundreds or thousands of businesses come and go and can offer good advice. Of course my problem isn't lack of advice or insight, it's just a lack of implementation and follow through.


great idea


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Westview,
In rereading my post to you I realize I came across as pretty harsh - my apologizes. It's just that going from what you are doing now to that type of business model because you are feeling overworked seems like a "frying pan into the fire" type of scenario to me.

Regardless, I admire your willingness to try a new direction and do wish you the best in your experiment.

Dan


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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

RH said:


> Westview,
> In rereading my post to you I realize I came across as pretty harsh - my apologizes. It's just that going from what you are doing now to that type of business model because you are feeling overworked seems like a "frying pan into the fire" type of scenario to me.
> 
> Regardless, I admire your willingness to try a new direction and do wish you the best in your experiment.
> ...


Thanks Dan. No worries.


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## premierpainter (Apr 17, 2007)

You know its funny...We have a Dealer that buys our paint. He has no, zero painting history. He sold over $1.5 million last year. Hire smart. He hired a foreman with plenty of knowledge. He has canvassers as well. All crews are subs. He had his foreman train the subs to install our paint. 
This is not rocket science, its painting. The most successful companies are not painters, they are business people. I think that WV is onto something and will do fine. Although, you will have to pay an hourly + commission when the job is sold. 
Good luck.


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## MKap (Sep 11, 2010)

20 people sounds like a lot...5 qualified people is a lot to ask for. I can't find 1 painter with 3+ years experience that would be a good fit. 

I could definitely sell painting jobs all day long, but I sell them based on my reputation and knowledge. I dont know your business model but I gotta think the only people that would be able to bid jobs would have their own business or are trying to start one? 

I actually like to paint, but it seems I have very little time to paint during the day if any at all. My life is much less stressful in the bucket, but my pockets would be thinner and I couldn't support my family the way I do just painting. I know how you feel having to do it all and getting tired of it. 
I'm not mad at you for wanting more by doing less. Making money is what it's all about right? 

As for referencing college pro and student ainters'... I think that's the wrong business model to invest in. They arent even good enough to be called hacks and strive for sympathy with a lower price to homeowners. 

As much as I enjoy painting, being a businessman running a painting business is time better spent. However making that money by doing less than professional work doesn't sit right with me. As much trouble as employees can give you, subs can make even more problems. I feel as others here probably do as well is I wouldn't want to sacrifice quality of the work or my reputation in doing so because I take a lot of pride in the craftsmanship of my company. 

I do wish you the best of luck in the venture.


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## glennb (Mar 7, 2012)

MKap said:


> 20 people sounds like a lot...5 qualified people is a lot to ask for. I can't find 1 painter with 3+ years experience that would be a good fit.
> 
> I could definitely sell painting jobs all day long, but I sell them based on my reputation and knowledge. I dont know your business model but I gotta think the only people that would be able to bid jobs would have their own business or are trying to start one?
> 
> ...


Now that's a reply


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## glennb (Mar 7, 2012)

I didn't know about this college pro.. Just googled it .. How dumb are the ho"s to pay for idiot kids to ain't their home.. Be no different to hiring the local under 13"s local soccer team..


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## SeaMonster (Apr 13, 2009)

glennb said:


> I didn't know about this college pro.. Just googled it .. How dumb are the ho"s to pay for idiot kids to ain't their home.. Be no different to hiring the local under 13"s local soccer team..


They do it in the spirit of helping college students pay for school. I don't know if College pro type companies actually hire students or not. Around here those companies are well known for their low quality and mostly work in low-end neighborhoods.


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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

How wrong most of you guys were.  You guys want an updateÉ I`ve doubled my salary in the first week.glad I didn`t take advice from some of the comments. For the most part, I get a lot of valuable info from this site. You want to make some real moneyÉ Get out of the bucket.


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## MKap (Sep 11, 2010)

Westview said:


> How wrong most of you guys were.  You guys want an updateÉ I`ve doubled my salary in the first week.glad I didn`t take advice from some of the comments. For the most part, I get a lot of valuable info from this site. You want to make some real moneyÉ Get out of the bucket.


Congrats. How many people do you have estimating? Gotta give a little more info before bragging. 
Remember that college pro system works great the first year...next spring you may be redoing all the work done from this year...

All jokes aside, what did you base your business plan/model on?


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## benthepainter (Jun 17, 2011)

Westview said:


> How wrong most of you guys were.  You guys want an updateÉ I`ve doubled my salary in the first week.glad I didn`t take advice from some of the comments. For the most part, I get a lot of valuable info from this site. You want to make some real moneyÉ Get out of the bucket.


Gday West

Congrats Mate . Do you find your headaches have doubled aswell ?


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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

I don`t want to say to much. I may have competition from other local companies. Email me in private and I will share. I will say one thing.....you have to cluster **** the **** out of the city you live in. You have to get your name out and your price.


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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

I`ve had a few beers and that came out wrong. I want to thank everyone here for all of the helpful advice. A lot of people on this site write long reply's to paint talk posts and I want those people to know how much we appreciate it. I asked a lot of questions and I learned a lot. Cheers mates.


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## 101 Painters (Sep 21, 2013)

Ppnj nailed it with his post. All of the negative replies you got in this post r from folks livin in the slow lane. They r afraid to get out of their comfort zone. Good for u. As far as the comments about having too much work... can u think of a better problem to have? That would be a very good problem to have. 

Know the laws and go with subs. I hear that is lucrative:whistling2:


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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

101 Painters said:


> Ppnj nailed it with his post. All of the negative replies you got in this post r from folks livin in the slow lane. They r afraid to get out of their comfort zone. Good for u. As far as the comments about having too much work... can u think of a better problem to have? That would be a very good problem to have.
> 
> Know the laws and go with subs. I hear that is lucrative:whistling2:


I`m hiring an accountant asap...and a personal trainer. I`ve been wanting to lose weight and be fit again. Thanks man. I can`t explain it...it just clicked the past few days. I know exactly how to generate large quantities of work. It`s been a happy few days for me. Cheers.


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## 101 Painters (Sep 21, 2013)

Westview said:


> I`m hiring an accountant asap...and a personal trainer. I`ve been wanting to lose weight and be fit again. Thanks man. I can`t explain it...it just clicked the past few days. I know exactly how to generate large quantities of work. It`s been a happy few days for me. Cheers.


Its a good feeling. The "click" is just the start. Keep pushin. What r u doin tomorrow to increase those sales?


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## 101 Painters (Sep 21, 2013)

Share some numbers. What r ur sales for next week?


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Westview said:


> I`m hiring an accountant asap...and a personal trainer. I`ve been wanting to lose weight and be fit again. Thanks man. I can`t explain it...it just clicked the past few days. I know exactly how to generate large quantities of work. It`s been a happy few days for me. Cheers.


So you landed a few jobs. Whis actually doing the painting? 

How many salesmen do you have working? Are they on commision?


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

So much build up and anticipation.

Gosh, I hope that like the hundreds of similar threads that this one brings closure, and doesn't just fizzle.

Emailing or pm'ng to get your secret #'s isn't closure btw.

Finish what you started...as in, post results here in this thread or bollocks...


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

WisePainter said:


> So much build up and anticipation.
> 
> Gosh, I hope that like the hundreds of similar threads that this one brings closure, and doesn't just fizzle.
> 
> ...


I feel both of you....I have some painters from my area that have approached me on here....I wouldn't want to get to detailed on here with them lurking around....


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

richmondpainting said:


> I feel both of you....I have some painters from my area that have approached me on here....I wouldn't want to get to detailed on here with them lurking around....


So, why show your hand in a public thread specifically detailing and describing your "secret" gameplan?

There are a few Missouri painters here, I couldn't care less if they know I'm here, it isn't as if there are many trade secrets worth protecting in the painting world.
As a matter of fact, I'm having a tough time thinking of one...


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

WisePainter said:


> ...it isn't as if there are many trade secrets worth protecting in the painting world.
> As a matter of fact, I'm having a tough time thinking of one...


Not sanding , priming, or second coating where I should have will remain a few of my trade secrets.

But we should all give a big round of applause to Westview. He is the only member I can think of that actually got out of the bucket besides Brian. MPminter is the only other member who went exclusively into sales , but I believe it was more roofing related.

I may be wrong, but 101 painters (formaly Klaw) is also in sales only, if I remember correctly. Oh wait! there's Roamer, and premierpainter too. I think the diffence with the latter is they we'ren't actually members doing hands on painting before making the transition


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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

WisePainter said:


> So, why show your hand in a public thread specifically detailing and describing your "secret" gameplan?
> 
> There are a few Missouri painters here, I couldn't care less if they know I'm here, it isn't as if there are many trade secrets worth protecting in the painting world.
> As a matter of fact, I'm having a tough time thinking of one...


Didn't mean to hit the thank you button. My original message talked about how I wouldn't be painting any longer and I received a lot of negative feedback because of it. I'm not going into details too much but the people giving negative feedback were very wrong.


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## Roamer (Jul 5, 2010)

CApainter said:


> I may be wrong, but 101 painters (formaly Klaw) is also in sales only, if I remember correctly. Oh wait! there's Roamer, and premierpainter too. I think the diffence with the latter is they we'ren't actually members doing hands on painting before making the transition


I got out of the bucket 10 years ago. Prior to that, I led a crew for 17 years in residential repaints.


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

Westview said:


> Didn't mean to hit the thank you button. My original message talked about how I wouldn't be painting any longer and I received a lot of negative feedback because of it. I'm not going into details too much but the people giving negative feedback were very wrong.


You can remove your thanks, I won't notice...

Thanks for the thread, less than informative.
Make a few more, riveting reads abound.


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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

WisePainter said:


> You can remove your thanks, I won't notice...
> 
> Thanks for the thread, less than informative.
> Make a few more, riveting reads abound.


Wow WisePainter you are a piece of work. Typical angry painter. I know a lot of guys like you.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

I hope the dude gets filthy stink in rich . I don't think he ought be spikin the ball and doing back flips in the end zone, though, a month after initiating his plan.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Oden said:


> I hope the dude gets filthy stink in rich . I don't think he ought be spikin the ball and doing back flips in the end zone, though, a month after initiating his plan.


When I get outta the bucket I'm gonna spike the brush. :thumbsup:


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

Westview said:


> Wow WisePainter you are a piece of work. Typical angry painter. I know a lot of guys like you.


lol...are you new here?



Oden said:


> I hope the dude gets filthy stink in rich . I don't think he ought be spikin the ball and doing back flips in the end zone, though, a month after initiating his plan.


zactly...


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

Rbriggs82 said:


> When I get outta the bucket I'm gonna spike the brush. :thumbsup:


I'll throw up the middle finger and let it linger...


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## premierpainter (Apr 17, 2007)

CApainter said:


> I may be wrong, but 101 painters (formaly Klaw) is also in sales only, if I remember correctly. Oh wait! there's Roamer, and premierpainter too. I think the diffence with the latter is they we'ren't actually members doing hands on painting before making the transition


I ran my crews and physically painted for 10 years. I have not painted in years. As I say, "I am not a painter, I own a painting business."


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

WisePainter said:


> So, why show your hand in a public thread specifically detailing and describing your "secret" gameplan?
> 
> There are a few Missouri painters here, I couldn't care less if they know I'm here, it isn't as if there are many trade secrets worth protecting in the painting world.
> As a matter of fact, I'm having a tough time thinking of one...


Well....im just saying you dont wanting them knowing certain things...I always want to keep competitors guessing...if you think about it im sure you can think of some things idk


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

CApainter said:


> Not sanding , priming, or second coating where I should have will remain a few of my trade secrets.
> 
> But we should all give a big round of applause to Westview. He is the only member I can think of that actually got out of the bucket besides Brian. MPminter is the only other member who went exclusively into sales , but I believe it was more roofing related.
> 
> I may be wrong, but 101 painters (formaly Klaw) is also in sales only, if I remember correctly. Oh wait! there's Roamer, and premierpainter too. I think the diffence with the latter is they we'ren't actually members doing hands on painting before making the transition


Ive painted less than 80 hours here in 2013 can I join this group yet ? Lol


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

richmondpainting said:


> Ive painted less than 80 hours here in 2013 can I join this group yet ? Lol


 
If you consider yourself "Out of the Bucket" by all means!


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

Above and beyond all this....is there anyone with a dedicated canvass team that is willing to share there system...numbers..advice ect ? I hear good things about it ....


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)




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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I was out of the bucket for most of 2011. Back in it though.


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## benthepainter (Jun 17, 2011)

CApainter said:


> If you consider yourself "Out of the Bucket" by all means!


Out of the bucket ? Cut buckets ?
i need to get up to date with my buckets 

I know some painters **** in buckets so can we add **** bucket to the list 

What about if you piss in a pot ? Is it Piss pot
Or piss cut bucket ?


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

I think once you use it for human waste it is called a can.

That's why we have the term "I'm going to the can".


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## benthepainter (Jun 17, 2011)

Hines Painting said:


> I think once you use it for human waste it is called a can.
> 
> That's why we have the term "I'm going to the can".


Thanks for getting this thread on track


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## MonPeintre.ca (Feb 17, 2011)

Canvassing


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## Amazing Painting (Sep 29, 2013)

Genius!!!! Why didn't I think about this before. I gotta go put an ad on Craigslist.


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

Amazing Painting said:


> Genius!!!! Why didn't I think about this before. I gotta go put an ad on Craigslist.


Best finish ever, Mods please lock.


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## MacDesign (Sep 23, 2013)

Westview said:


> I don`t want to say to much. I may have competition from other local companies. Email me in private and I will share. I will say one thing.....you have to cluster **** the **** out of the city you live in. You have to get your name out and your price.


I would really appreciat if you would give me more info about your strategie.My email is [email protected]. 
Thank you


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## 101 Painters (Sep 21, 2013)

DeanV said:


> I was out of the bucket for most of 2011. Back in it though.


Why. Just curious.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

Been out of that bucket for quite awhile


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## Seattlepainting (Jun 8, 2010)

*What is your target for GP?*

With this model what is your compensation model; a commission on the contract amount for the salesman 10-15% of revenue?

As a pot and brush guy what was your average gross profit on your projects somewhere around 52%?

I know you were throwing it out there when you said 20 salesmen..you meant to say two or three right?


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Seattlepainting said:


> With this model what is your compensation model; a commission on the contract amount for the salesman 10-15% of revenue?
> 
> As a pot and brush guy what was your average gross profit on your projects somewhere around 52%?
> 
> I know you were throwing it out there when you said 20 salesmen..you meant to say two or three right?


Sorry, he's busy spraying out some apartment flips...its going to be a while till you get a response.


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

MacDesign said:


> I would really appreciat if you would give me more info about your strategie.My email is [email protected].
> Thank you


I didn't get a response...I asked ....


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## MacDesign (Sep 23, 2013)

richmondpainting said:


> I didn't get a response...I asked ....


I guess he doesn't wanna tell us.that's fine

I've seen that you are using footbridge media. Are you still with them? Did u get a lot of work or at least leads? They should finish my site this week, I hope it will bring me some work since I'm planing to hire 1-2 guys over the winter


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

101 Painters said:


> Why. Just curious.


Slow winter after the crash had me hold off on hiring. When I hire a full time guy, I want to know as certainly as I can I have 40 hours a week for him year round. Otherwise, I pick up the extra work myself when we are busy.


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

MacDesign said:


> I guess he doesn't wanna tell us.that's fine
> 
> I've seen that you are using footbridge media. Are you still with them? Did u get a lot of work or at least leads? They should finish my site this week, I hope it will bring me some work since I'm planing to hire 1-2 guys over the winter


Yea...worked really well over yhe summer...got a lot of residential....several good commercial repaints....even some wall paper and epoxy leads which some I handed off to other contractors/ let go....but all in all I'm really happy....I think things could be better but I'm definitely not complaining


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## 101 Painters (Sep 21, 2013)

Yea. Footbridge media is the whip. They know how to get you ranked and get your phone ringing. Single, best investment I made back in the day. Now, Im tryin to create my website on my own.


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## MacDesign (Sep 23, 2013)

richmondpainting said:


> Yea...worked really well over yhe summer...got a lot of residential....several good commercial repaints....even some wall paper and epoxy leads which some I handed off to other contractors/ let go....but all in all I'm really happy....I think things could be better but I'm definitely not complaining


Great, that makes me feel better I'm in Chicago and in the city is a lot of competition and there are companies that already use their services, but I choose 2 suburbs. I will post my website for any opinions or advices as soon as it goes live


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## MacDesign (Sep 23, 2013)

101 Painters said:


> Yea. Footbridge media is the whip. They know how to get you ranked and get your phone ringing. Single, best investment I made back in the day. Now, Im tryin to create my website on my own.


So far I got most of my jobs from Craigslist. didn't really invest in marketing.I wasn't sure if I will do painting for long but there are couple of years since I do it,I like it, i got good at it, i have some connections and i think it's the time to hire 1-2 full time guys and grow my business


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## 101 Painters (Sep 21, 2013)

contact / work with Aaron personally and you will be good based on my prior experience. jmo.


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## 101 Painters (Sep 21, 2013)

craiglist. really? what kinda margins r u makin off of that? Not doggin u just 
curious....


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## MacDesign (Sep 23, 2013)

101 Painters said:


> craiglist. really? what kinda margins r u makin off of that? Not doggin u just
> curious....


I have to say that were months when I barely made something, but sometimes it was really busy. Never had anyone working for me more than couple of days. My prices were really low at the begining but now I'm more confident and I pretty much know how to sell a job even if my price is higher. I have couple of costumers and I have normal prices. But still slow and not really happy. I hope this will make a change in my business. I also invested in printed materials, t-shirts, lawn signs etc...


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## 101 Painters (Sep 21, 2013)

Cool.Try BNI (google it for your zip code). It really jump started my biz when we started out. It was a big investment ( ~600 / yr - I think). But, we did over 20K in sales - at least. Plus, they really helped us zone in on our sales pitch. BTW, I got no skin promoting them - just telling u what worked for us in the early stages. Good luck.


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## MacDesign (Sep 23, 2013)

101 Painters said:


> Cool.Try BNI (google it for your zip code). It really jump started my biz when we started out. It was a big investment ( ~600 / yr - I think). But, we did over 20K in sales - at least. Plus, they really helped us zone in on our sales pitch. BTW, I got no skin promoting them - just telling u what worked for us in the early stages. Good luck.


Great.thx for the advice


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## MacDesign (Sep 23, 2013)

Just got my website running today! 
Please let me know what do you think.should I change anything at it? I accept any advice

www.macdesignpainting.com


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

Looks good.


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

101 Painters said:


> Cool.Try BNI (google it for your zip code). It really jump started my biz when we started out. It was a big investment ( ~600 / yr - I think). But, we did over 20K in sales - at least. Plus, they really helped us zone in on our sales pitch. BTW, I got no skin promoting them - just telling u what worked for us in the early stages. Good luck.


What's bni ?


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## Roamer (Jul 5, 2010)

Business Networking International. Essentially, a focused networking group that meets once a week. That's right, every week. You get to better know the other members of the group so that you can refer them and they you.

We have over 40 chapters in Northern Virginia. There are chapters all over the world.


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

Roamer said:


> Business Networking International. Essentially, a focused networking group that meets once a week. That's right, every week. You get to better know the other members of the group so that you can refer them and they you.
> 
> We have over 40 chapters in Northern Virginia. There are chapters all over the world.


Thanks roamer...I always appreciate the good information


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

I was a BNI member for 7 years- helped me in more ways than just direct biz- helped me to lean about promotion...

Recommend it to small comp that deal with HO- not so much if you're going for larger commercial.


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## thinkpainting/nick (Dec 25, 2012)

MacDesign said:


> Great.thx for the advice


I agree I would do BNI also while your slow get out and meet people let everyone know what you do. Always have business cards to pass out make sure you use those lawn signs. If you know someone who lives on a busy street ask them if you can put job sign on there lawn maybe swap out some painting. Knocking on doors won't hurt takes some gusto and good sales pitch put flyers out where very you can. The more you put out the more you should get back. Allot depends on your market where I am can't drive down the street without hitting another painter. It takes time to build up a business and allot of hard work. Good luck much success .


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## MacDesign (Sep 23, 2013)

thinkpainting/nick said:


> I agree I would do BNI also while your slow get out and meet people let everyone know what you do. Always have business cards to pass out make sure you use those lawn signs. If you know someone who lives on a busy street ask them if you can put job sign on there lawn maybe swap out some painting. Knocking on doors won't hurt takes some gusto and good sales pitch put flyers out where very you can. The more you put out the more you should get back. Allot depends on your market where I am can't drive down the street without hitting another painter. It takes time to build up a business and allot of hard work. Good luck much success .



Thank you for your advices. I didn't really do much marketing, but I'm planing to. I will take it step by step. Started online and I'm thinking to do as you said BNI, lawn signs, door to door. And why not to hire 3-4 sales men and pay them on commission ?


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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

aaron61 said:


> Been out of that bucket for quite awhile[/QUOTEH
> How do you find it Aaron?


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

MacDesign said:


> Thank you for your advices. I didn't really do much marketing, but I'm planing to. I will take it step by step. Started online and I'm thinking to do as you said BNI, lawn signs, door to door. And why not to hire 3-4 sales men and pay them on commission ?


3-4 salesmen sounds like a lot...especially if you havent done much marketing....ive just decided come spring im going to hire an assistant....some one to pretty much do everything I don't have time for from the office to general labor...set ups...clean ups ect..errands.. 

I already have an estimator..


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## MacDesign (Sep 23, 2013)

richmondpainting said:


> 3-4 salesmen sounds like a lot...especially if you havent done much marketing....ive just decided come spring im going to hire an assistant....some one to pretty much do everything I don't have time for from the office to general labor...set ups...clean ups ect..errands..
> 
> I already have an estimator..


Well, i can't afford to pay a monthly salary so i will try to hire them on commission and pay them after i got the job. 
That's nice if you can do thatm how old are you in business and how many employes do u have?


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## premierpainter (Apr 17, 2007)

A salesman will not last if you don't have a lot of leads. They will leave the first week. If you can't give a small salary they will move on.
Sorry


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

MacDesign said:


> Well, i can't afford to pay a monthly salary so i will try to hire them on commission and pay them after i got the job.
> That's nice if you can do thatm how old are you in business and how many employes do u have?


Bout 8 years and we peaked at 18 painters this year.....trying to get to 30 next year....I may even look into getting a sub crew...


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## Hines Painting (Jun 22, 2013)

richmondpainting said:


> Bout 8 years and we peaked at 18 painters this year.....trying to get to 30 next year....I may even look into getting a sub crew...


What advertising do you do besides your website and yard signs?


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

Hines Painting said:


> What advertising do you do besides your website and yard signs?


Angies list is big for me..newspapers.some door hangers and direct mail..not as much as I would have liked....but the commercial is where I'm focused on....


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## MacDesign (Sep 23, 2013)

richmondpainting said:


> Angies list is big for me..newspapers.some door hangers and direct mail..not as much as I would have liked....but the commercial is where I'm focused on....


To grow your company with 12 people in a year that's a big goal ! Wish you the best in reaching it.
You get most of the jobs from your marketing system(new costumers) or from your connections?


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## DiamondPaintingInc (May 31, 2012)

-To the original poster-
Just my .2 cents if anyone cares. My father was a large commercial painting in Phoenix for 40 years and I have been on my own for 17 years. 
To survive in this business takes alot of hands on knowledge and a ton of business skills. I cannot begin to tell how many Painting Companies started up thinking salesman and poorly trained staff that look the part would make them succeed only to see them gone now. 


I used to get calls about how franchise paint companies and I will not mention names screwing up painting a hotel, hospital or some other high end commercial project because the moron owner would depend on someone to estimate a project that sold Ford's just last week or better yet the paint company owner who cannot handle working during the day and doing estimates, looking at plans at night.
You can make a ton of money painting whether you get in the van every morning and work your tools or you have 65 guys working for you. But it all comes down to the same hard work.


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

MacDesign said:


> To grow your company with 12 people in a year that's a big goal ! Wish you the best in reaching it.
> You get most of the jobs from your marketing system(new costumers) or from your connections?


most comes from advertising


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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

Update:

Still out of the bucket and loving it. My work load has decreased by about 80% and I'm making more money. I can now put all my energy into marketing. It's all about delegating all the work so I have virtually no work to do. Cheers.


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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

Some of you worry about the headaches with having employees. If you train them properly, you wont have many headaches. One thing I have learned so far is that anyone can paint if you show them how. Anyone.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)




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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

Westview said:


> Some of you worry about the headaches with having employees. If you train them properly, you wont have many headaches. One thing I have learned so far is that anyone can paint if you show them how. Anyone.


Even a blind guy??


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Maybe anyone can paint, given enough training and experience. Some people have an aptitude for it. Some don't. Some people have an eye for detail and a desire to produce quality work. Some don't. Maybe anyone can paint, but not everyone can paint well, no matter how many times they're shown how.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I am sorry, but at a basic level, a lot of people can paint. But you cannot take a no experience person and teach them everything they need to do a quality job in a short time.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

DeanV said:


> I am sorry, but at a basic level, a lot of people can paint. But you cannot take a no experience person and teach them everything they need to do a quality job in a short time.


and at a speed I'd add. I mean give a person unlimited time to paint a door and they'll get the door painted nice. ( let's hope they didn't eventually give you a latex semi over a oil gloss real nice) but do customers want occupants painting their place or do they want the place painted and the painters gone.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Interestingly, this subject came up over turkey (and wine) earlier.

YES, anyone can paint.

BUT, can they learn quickly how to paint expertly?

The conclusion was NO. 

Some just plain and simply do not have the natural ability and patience to prep and apply paint with near perfection. And many can not even recognize what near perfection is.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Sorta off topic but this is PT so: how many of you do painting in your own house, and actually live with the finishes you apply?

Its kinda interesting.


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

basically you can attempt to teach anyone... some will catch on and some will not.... but for the most part you can teach anyone who is willing to learn and has the motivation... they may not be the best but can be used some where.......


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

TJ Paint said:


> Sorta off topic but this is PT so: how many of you do painting in your own house, and actually live with the finishes you apply?
> 
> Its kinda interesting.


I do so much more than paint and paper in my own castle and not only LIVE with it all but also also appreciate the value and quality.

They say a cobbler's child goes barefoot, and that may be true because a good cobbler is always too busy FEEDING his family. NOR has he the interest in buying 2nd rate footwear for his family. BUT when he finally gets around to putting shoes on his kids feet, you can be damn sure they is the best shoes at any price.

I have a better question. How many of you WHEN you do painting in your own home gve it your best ? :thumbup: :thumbsup: :thumbup1:


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

TJ Paint said:


> Sorta off topic but this is PT so: how many of you do painting in your own house, and actually live with the finishes you apply? Its kinda interesting.


I used to have all custom. Like colored ceilings, different rooms different colors, kids room had like clouds and crap. not too recent I went all white ceilings and trim and all the walls in all the rooms the same color. So I'm degreasing in my unique, painter's house custom to a more smarter and older easey Touchups painters house. It's working out too as planned. I just moved all the TV's around, you know wall mounts, and built a drywall corner for one to hang over the fireplace.

Well the paimtimg part was easey. I got fives with sleeves in em- bam. the new wall, all the patches gone. and while it was pit did a quick spruce up on the high traffic area too. the hall, up the steps. Damned kids. T.J. the older they get the more destructive they get. You'll see.

B.T.W. Happy turkey day to you and all the other semi skilled - a step above, ditch diggers, like me, painters on the P.T.

Amd the businessmen too.

Whatever.


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## Brian339 (Mar 15, 2009)

Westview said:


> Some of you worry about the headaches with having employees. If you train them properly, you wont have many headaches. One thing I have learned so far is that anyone can paint if you show them how. Anyone.


Sorry but I am not buying any of this. I am not angry either. I feel I am up on the painting scene so I feel my opinion is worthwhile.
If your on a pink cloud now that's terrific. I suggest you prepare yourself for when things go south. From the sounds of it you have way to many holes in your business model. The biggest one is believing that just anyone can paint if you show them how. That is total BULLSH!T. Your going to find out why if you haven't already. If your repainting low income housing or for slum lords you might be okay although there is no money in that. If your doing commercial that's usually 30-60 day to payday gig. If your doing high end residential and you show up with BOZO and the rest of the clowns you will get kicked to the curb. Eventually you will end up looking like an idiot in town.
UNLESS you have been able to lure many of the more experienced painters in your area and you have landed some good accounts in which case I believe you have a shot.
If your doing this all on credit you need to familiarize yourself with ch.7 and plan ahead for it.
If you are a sloe proprietor and your doing this then your really tripping.

Hey in any event good luck


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

Maybe you could share with us some of your training systems that are working so well for you. 

thanks


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

I'm not buying it either.

I know someone who did this. He was a quality painting outfit before subbing thing out. Went well at first until the crap work his subs performed caught up to him. 

If you are content with being a hack, this works. 

If you are content with no repeat customers, this works.

If you are content with no referrals, this works.

Additionally, "drive by" "I told you so's" are arrogant sounding and unbecoming of a business genius.


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

I did paper sales for a local company that has 7 fully loaded trailers gathering dust since 1998.
He got 45% up front, the sub got 45%, and for selling and managing I got 5%.

The police were summoned to remove one of the subs.
He hired everyone he could and burned through every single sub in the area.

The quality was never good, the headaches were many, and the owner didn't care at 45% upfront.
My 5% shrank quickly.
I hated the job.
And yeah, nobody repeated their mistake by hiring him again.

You're full of doo doo, nobody here will ever believe you are being successful, please stop.


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## Brian339 (Mar 15, 2009)

He should be embarrassed.


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

Sooo.... not a single one of you naysayers was ever taught anything?

Nice.


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## paintball head (Mar 3, 2012)

The anyone can be taught to paint philosophy almost sounds like what companies similar to College Pro, Campus Painters, Certa Pro go by. I have personally seen the results of that type of work and have watched them work and it is Hack quality through and through.


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

Westview said:


> The next job I have starting on Tuesday will be my last day painting...even though i love painting...some days, not so much. Painting all day, estimating at night and marketing has become to much for one man to take care of. I have one painter at the moment working for me. I'm assembling a 20 man sales crew to knock on doors all day long for a few months and then i will train them how to paint. Already have 6 applicants so just waiting for the rest to arrive. this should be interesting





Westview said:


> Update:
> 
> Still out of the bucket and loving it. My work load has decreased by about 80% and I'm making more money. I can now put all my energy into marketing. It's all about delegating all the work so I have virtually no work to do. Cheers.


Sooo.......after just two months, this is being declared a success?


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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

WisePainter said:


> I did paper sales for a local company that has 7 fully loaded trailers gathering dust since 1998.
> He got 45% up front, the sub got 45%, and for selling and managing I got 5%.
> 
> The police were summoned to remove one of the subs.
> ...


Hey Wise. You need to get slapped. You are such a negative little bitch. I should block your ass from my threads clown.


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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

Brian339 said:


> Sorry but I am not buying any of this. I am not angry either. I feel I am up on the painting scene so I feel my opinion is worthwhile.
> If your on a pink cloud now that's terrific. I suggest you prepare yourself for when things go south. From the sounds of it you have way to many holes in your business model. The biggest one is believing that just anyone can paint if you show them how. That is total BULLSH!T. Your going to find out why if you haven't already. If your repainting low income housing or for slum lords you might be okay although there is no money in that. If your doing commercial that's usually 30-60 day to payday gig. If your doing high end residential and you show up with BOZO and the rest of the clowns you will get kicked to the curb. Eventually you will end up looking like an idiot in town.
> UNLESS you have been able to lure many of the more experienced painters in your area and you have landed some good accounts in which case I believe you have a shot.
> If your doing this all on credit you need to familiarize yourself with ch.7 and plan ahead for it.
> ...


Clown


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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

ProWallGuy said:


> Sooo.......after just two months, this is being declared a success?


Is the little baby upset because I make more money then him?


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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

paintball head said:


> The anyone can be taught to paint philosophy almost sounds like what companies similar to College Pro, Campus Painters, Certa Pro go by. I have personally seen the results of that type of work and have watched them work and it is Hack quality through and through.


All of the companies you just named are highly successful. You need to start thinking like a business man.


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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

DeanV said:


> I am sorry, but at a basic level, a lot of people can paint. But you cannot take a no experience person and teach them everything they need to do a quality job in a short time.


correct


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## driftweed (May 26, 2013)

Theres a sticky that explains it best (the difference between the broke master craftsmen & the succesful guy who doesn't do perfection).

This thread shows who is who in that comparison.


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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

driftweed said:


> Theres a sticky that explains it best (the difference between the broke master craftsmen & the succesful guy who doesn't do perfection).
> 
> This thread shows who is who in that comparison.


You nailed it. Thanks.


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## wje (Apr 11, 2009)

:2guns:


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Westview said:


> All of the companies you just named are highly successful. You need to start thinking like a business man.


The original owners selling feanchises are successful, they are in no way tied to the actual work.

You are.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Call me in a year or two when you need a job. I am, have been and will be in it for the long haul. And I'm only as good as my last job.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)




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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

Paradigmzz said:


> Call me in a year or two when you need a job. I am, have been and will be in it for the long haul. And I'm only as good as my last job.


Now why would you write that to me? You basically just told me I would be out of business in 2 years. Blows my mind some of the things you guys write. I would never call you for a job. I know how to generate work...I know how to estimate very accurately and I know how to manage crews. I get testimonials from all of my clients now. I'm in it for the long haul as well.


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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

Paradigmzz said:


> Call me in a year or two when you need a job. I am, have been and will be in it for the long haul. And I'm only as good as my last job.


Video Testimonial


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## MikeCalifornia (Aug 26, 2012)

There will always be haters, so don't take it personally Westview.

I applaud your effort and bet your new company kicks ass. I do believe anyone can be taught to paint. Obviously on their first day, they won't know a cheater from a hole in the head, but with time, training, and a proper work ethic, most will perform. I would rather have an employee who knows nothing that I could shape and train, then a disgruntled ex-every paint company hack that says they can do it all, then you find out they smoke, drink, drugs, beat the wife, back child-support, tax liens, always need a loan, broke on Monday, can't get to work on time, painter.


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## Westview (Jul 23, 2011)

MikeCalifornia said:


> There will always be haters, so don't take it personally Westview.
> 
> I applaud your effort and bet your new company kicks ass. I do believe anyone can be taught to paint. Obviously on their first day, they won't know a cheater from a hole in the head, but with time, training, and a proper work ethic, most will perform. I would rather have an employee who knows nothing that I could shape and train, then a disgruntled ex-every paint company hack that says they can do it all, then you find out they smoke, drink, drugs, beat the wife, back child-support, tax liens, always need a loan, broke on Monday, can't get to work on time, painter.


Thanks Mike. I agree with what you wrote. Cheers.


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

I agree also....you can pretty much train anyone...they may not be capable of learning everything and being efficient but I can find a place for almost anyone...

And if he is doing everything he says he is...he must be doing well....I'm assuming by 20 salesmen. ...you mean canvassers? 
I definitely wanna get a consistent canvass team going come spring.....


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## Ole34 (Jan 24, 2011)

Some of the painters in here can't even paint......


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Westview said:


> Now why would you write that to me? You basically just told me I would be out of business in 2 years. Blows my mind some of the things you guys write. I would never call you for a job. I know how to generate work...I know how to estimate very accurately and I know how to manage crews. I get testimonials from all of my clients now. I'm in it for the long haul as well.


You quickly forget that I have watched you raise up as a painter tgrough the lens of your own words here on PaintTalk. You are a grasshopper and you just changed your tactics to a "feed the monster" entrepenour. It all comes down to your skills in management and stumbling upon the right people to lean on to make it fly. Pay attention closely to the next few months when things get lean.

I hope I eat my words. Nothing personal, just think your ambition is gonna catch up to you in the wrong way.


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

Paradigmzz said:


> You quickly forget that I have watched you raise up as a painter tgrough the lens of your own words here on PaintTalk. You are a grasshopper and you just changed your tactics to a "feed the monster" entrepenour. It all comes down to your skills in management and stumbling upon the right people to lean on to make it fly. Pay attention closely to the next few months when things get lean.
> 
> I hope I eat my words. Nothing personal, just think your ambition is gonna catch up to you in the wrong way.


He sounds kinda like me ? I like it....lol...


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

richmondpainting said:


> He sounds kinda like me ? I like it....lol...


You have had the ability to watch Certa Pro and you still use their pricing. You have been running guys throughout your comming up. Those are MASSIVE differences between you two.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

I think you'll scrap your way along Rich. You will be alright. (I've never thought you wouldn't make it, watching how you roll is worth the price of admission)


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## richmondpainting (Feb 24, 2012)

Paradigmzz said:


> I think you'll scrap your way along Rich. You will be alright. (I've never thought you wouldn't make it, watching how you roll is worth the price of admission)


It all comes down to money and cash flow....all I need...


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

Westview said:


> Hey Wise. You need to get slapped. You are such a negative little bitch. I should block your ass from my threads clown.


seriously, that's the best you can bring?!?

Best to step back and rethink your approach lol.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

WisePainter said:


> seriously, that's the best you can bring?!?
> 
> Best to step back and rethink your approach lol.


The kinder, gentler Kev. Lovin it....


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

I sure would like to here about some details on this. 


How is your training program set up?? what do you teach first, how long until students become good at painting, what are some of the challenging things to teach, who teaches, do you hire experienced or no experienced??

SO how many painters are you running?

HOw many vehicles is the company running??

thanks


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

Paradigmzz said:


> The kinder, gentler Kev. Lovin it....



My therapist has increased my dosage.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

Dave Mac said:


> Maybe you could share with us some of your training systems that are working so well for you. thanks


Stop asking pertinent questions, Dave. 
You might derail the thread.
Trash talk and banter only. Please.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Westview said:


> The next job I have starting on Tuesday will be my last day painting...even though i love painting...some days, not so much. Painting all day, estimating at night and marketing has become to much for one man to take care of. I have one painter at the moment working for me. I'm assembling a 20 man sales crew to knock on doors all day long for a few months and then i will train them how to paint. Already have 6 applicants so just waiting for the rest to arrive. this should be interesting


Update?
:whistling2:


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

I'm guessing he's a national baller now and way too busy for such things as PT.


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## GR8painter (Dec 18, 2014)

I think that was a serious pipedream. Back in the bucket you go. I don't know how he ends up with paperwork? what paperwork. Throw your receipts in a box, bring your bank statements to the accountant at the end of the year. What paperwork. I think some guys (ezpecially with small operations) make it way more complicated than it needs to be. 
Me...no paperwork, look at more work leisurely on the weekends, don't get easier than that.


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## skinne9 (Nov 21, 2009)

Just got done reading this epic 18 page novel, I too want to know how this guy is doing. When was his last post?


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Does he have a website or anything?

Every page of this thread I was waiting for a

"LOL just kidding guys, I just had a slow week and wanted to troll" but it never came D=


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

skinne9 said:


> Just got done reading this epic 18 page novel, I too want to know how this guy is doing. When was his last post?


He last logged on Aug31, 2014.


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## Rbriggs82 (Jul 9, 2012)

Last I heard he's greeting people at Walmart.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Last I heard he's greeting people at Walmart.


Which is interesting because he seemed a little angry near the end of his time on here. Maybe upon leaving he found peace with the world.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Rbriggs82 said:


> Last I heard he's greeting people at Walmart.


 Don't be silly.

Like every get rich scheme, I'm sure it ended with him retiring at a young age, rich and happy and not having trod on anyone or ruined any lives/houses on the way.


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## BPC (Jan 1, 2015)

Is this the longest thread about one person or what.:sly::sly::beer:


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Given how the trend here is to project a positive position of one's business pursuits whenever the opportunity arises, like all of the time, I'm guessing the sales blitz wasn't all that successful. But what do I know.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

CApainter said:


> Given how the trend here is to project a positive position of one's business pursuits whenever the opportunity arises, like all of the time, I'm guessing the sales blitz wasn't all that successful. But what do I know.


I don't know what you know, but I'm still chuckling about the Bruce Jenner/ torpedo tubes. :thumbup:


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