# Sand Paint Ceiling



## cardgunner (Feb 29, 2016)

So I got around 3600ft2 of ceiling to paint. The ceiling is not perfect so I am going to sand paint to hid the imperfections.

I plan on using a 12" roller. Just an ordinary sand paint finish. No swirls or etc.

I'm going to tape the walls.

Should I mix the paint myself or just buy premixed?

Any helpful hints or words of wisdom?

Thank you for time.
CardGunner


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*More info needed*



cardgunner said:


> So I got around 3600ft2 of ceiling to paint. The ceiling is not perfect so I am going to sand paint to hid the imperfections.
> 
> I plan on using a 12" roller. Just an ordinary sand paint finish. No swirls or etc.
> 
> ...


Here is a helpful hint: give as many details as you can about this job. 

Here are some questions:

Is this just one big ceiling or several that add up to 3600 sq ft?

Commercial, Industrial or residential?

When you say the ceiling is not "perfect", what do you mean? Give bunches of details.

If the ceiling is not perfect, will a 12" roller miss some areas? Or should you stay with a 9"?

If a 12" roller will work, why don't you use the Wooster Sherlock 14"? There are a number of companies besides Wooster that now off 14" roller cover and trays.

Is the ceiling good enough for just sand paint or is it so messed up that only a heavy texture will really cover the imperfections?

Some photos would be good to see. 

futtyos


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## cardgunner (Feb 29, 2016)

It is a residential one big ceiling that spans 3 rooms. 

Not perfect is to mean there are some sanding marks under the current paint. There are fixes in the joints where the tape loosened up and had to be replaced. Just overall not a good finish to the install. 

None of these imperfections would make a 12" or 14" miss areas.

It will be fine with just sand paint. 

I have never done this large of a ceiling before with sand paint and if there are any hints or best practice that I should know about please let me know. It's just me doing it.


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*What does the customer want?*



cardgunner said:


> It is a residential one big ceiling that spans 3 rooms.
> 
> Not perfect is to mean there are some sanding marks under the current paint. There are fixes in the joints where the tape loosened up and had to be replaced. Just overall not a good finish to the install.
> 
> ...


This sound like an expensive house. If so, why doesn't the owner want the flaws in the ceiling corrected and painted in such a manner as to maintain the value of the house? Is sand paint on ceilings typical in your area? (where is this house anyway?). If not, you might actually be causing vandalism to the property when the owners decide to sell the house down the road. I can envision some realtor coming in and telling the homeowners to get rid of the sandy texture on the ceiling.

I live in the Chicago area. I rarely ever see sand ceilings. Most of my experience with popcorn and textured ceilings is that the owners want them skim coated smooth. The Chicago hi rise condos I have been painting at for the last 2 years all had an orange peel texture on ceilings and walls. I can only recall 1 unit where we did not skim coat everything flat.

Just because something can be done does not mean that it would be a good idea to do it. My 2+ cents, anyway.

futtyos


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## cardgunner (Feb 29, 2016)

futtyos said:


> This sound like an expensive house. If so, why doesn't the owner want the flaws in the ceiling corrected and painted in such a manner as to maintain the value of the house? Is sand paint on ceilings typical in your area? (where is this house anyway?). If not, you might actually be causing vandalism to the property when the owners decide to sell the house down the road. I can envision some realtor coming in and telling the homeowners to get rid of the sandy texture on the ceiling.
> 
> I live in the Chicago area. I rarely ever see sand ceilings. Most of my experience with popcorn and textured ceilings is that the owners want them skim coated smooth. The Chicago hi rise condos I have been painting at for the last 2 years all had an orange peel texture on ceilings and walls. I can only recall 1 unit where we did not skim coat everything flat.
> 
> ...


The house was an old barn they rose the roof on to make a second story. But it is not a finished expensive house just expansive. I can't fix the flaws(lack of talent) and they don't have the time to get it done right. Party going down in August and they need ceiling, trim, and walls done before that.

So any suggestions or trade secrets on how to sand paint the ceiling to get the best outcome and/or save time and my shoulders?

Should I go with premix or mix myself?


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Problem to solve*



cardgunner said:


> The house was an old barn they rose the roof on to make a second story. But it is not a finished expensive house just expansive. I can't fix the flaws(lack of talent) and they don't have the time to get it done right. Party going down in August and they need ceiling, trim, and walls done before that.
> 
> So any suggestions or trade secrets on how to sand paint the ceiling to get the best outcome and/or save time and my shoulders?
> 
> Should I go with premix or mix myself?


cardgunner, I can't help you on this one, but I am interested to hear from those who can.

futtyos


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## getrex (Feb 13, 2017)

I've never done 'sand painting' before so I don't know what kind of hiding ability it has but it seems to me like you would have to do some mud work regardless to smooth things out so that the top layer looks good. Because the only thing worse than a wavy, bulging, or saggy flat ceiling is a wavy, bulging, saggy textured ceiling. Just my opinion.


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## cardgunner (Feb 29, 2016)

getrex said:


> I've never done 'sand painting' before so I don't know what kind of hiding ability it has but it seems to me like you would have to do some mud work regardless to smooth things out so that the top layer looks good. Because the only thing worse than a wavy, bulging, or saggy flat ceiling is a wavy, bulging, saggy textured ceiling. Just my opinion.


I didn't think that sand paint was a regional thing. You add sand to ceiling paint and apply. It helps hide a bad finish or a bad mudding job where you can see the seams. On ceilings with the lighting, bad joint work is very noticeable. 

I had done ceilings in small rooms 20' x 40' and some closets but nothing this expansive. My arms are going to ache for days.

I'll ask my paint suppliers if they have any tips.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

Not sure if its unoccupied or not, but have you considered renting a texture machine and just texturing it? If you must sand it, I'd throw the sand in myself, stir it often, use the biggest nap reasonable for the area and crosshatch the chit out of it....good luck. Hope it turns out as well as you hope.

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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I can't believe a professional painter would agree to roll non skid on a ceiling. If anything, get a texture gun and spray it on.


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## cardgunner (Feb 29, 2016)

​


CApainter said:


> I can't believe a professional painter would agree to roll non skid on a ceiling. If anything, get a texture gun and spray it on.


I seen videos with a texture gun but all I seen was them putting drywall compost (mud) thru them. I haven't see them use sand paint. Also there is a lot of furniture which I'm going to cover and etc. Again all videos I seen is the perfect scenario. 

If not by gun then how else would you apply non skid to a ceiling? Brush it on.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

cardgunner said:


> I seen videos with a texture gun but all I seen was them putting drywall compost (mud) thru them. I haven't see them use sand paint. Also there is a lot of furniture which I'm going to cover and etc. Again all videos I seen is the perfect scenario.
> 
> If not by gun then how else would you apply non skid to a ceiling? Brush it on.


 When you figure it out, please let me know! 

I've rolled so much non skid on surfaces and it still always looks like crap. People want it aggressive though, so I guess it doesn't matter.

I have tried troweling it on with a soft trowel. That looked OK with a sweeping pattern, although I wouldn't recommend that for a 3,600 sf ceiling. I have also sprayed it on the floor with a texture gun, but the consistency was too wet. 

Actually, one of the best looking no skid jobs I've done was when I rolled out some high solids epoxy paint and broadcasted the aggregate over it. Once it dried, I simply swept off the excess sand and rolled on another coat of epoxy. It didn't look bad, but a lot of extra work.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

CApainter said:


> I can't believe a professional painter would agree to roll non skid on a ceiling. If anything, get a texture gun and spray it on.


It doesn't matter whether or not I agree with it, and it ain't me trying to apply sand to a lid. I would NEVER throw sand I to any pump I own. Maybe a rental, but that just sounds like a pump failure waiting to happen. Youd have to shoot it with an airless...a texture machine would put too much paint on. And maybe an airless would pump it with a hugely tipped orifis, otherwise I'd bet it would clog. But then you're back to too much paint again.....maybe somebody's got it figured out? I don't, that's for sure. Personally, I'd be figuring out how to get some orange peel or knock down or ??? On it. If ya gotta bag it anyway, then you can just shoot it with an airless and be done with a reasonably decent (No idea how bad the seams are) end product. I dunno....there doesn't seem to be a lot of info, it's occupied though so if it's a 1 man band situation rolling it would seem advantageous I guess, easier to manage some of the spaces. And op was gun shy with the drywall skills anyway.....i freaking hate drywall.
Wonder if there's enough in the budget to sub it out? A drywaller would knock it out quick!

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## ParamountPaint (Aug 25, 2016)

I've mixed some sand in small doses to match an existing textured ceiling. Those weren't sand paint, though. They mixed aggregate in the plaster topcoat and floated it to the top (or bottom, since it's a ceiling).

Shoot it with a knockdown or medium orange peel and you'd be out the door right smartly.

Sand in paint doesn't roll out for sh#%...it clogs the cover all up and makes a clumpy mess.


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## getrex (Feb 13, 2017)

cardgunner said:


> I didn't think that sand paint was a regional thing. You add sand to ceiling paint and apply. It helps hide a bad finish or a bad mudding job where you can see the seams. On ceilings with the lighting, bad joint work is very noticeable.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I would rather learn how to mud than try to roll what amounts to grout on the ceiling. It really isn't that hard. 

Rolling ceilings sucks enough without any texture thrown in.


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## getrex (Feb 13, 2017)

You can even roll mud.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

lilpaintchic said:


> It doesn't matter whether or not I agree with it, and it ain't me trying to apply sand to a lid. I would NEVER throw sand I to any pump I own. Maybe a rental, but that just sounds like a pump failure waiting to happen. Youd have to shoot it with an airless...a texture machine would put too much paint on. And maybe an airless would pump it with a hugely tipped orifis, otherwise I'd bet it would clog. But then you're back to too much paint again.....maybe somebody's got it figured out? I don't, that's for sure. Personally, I'd be figuring out how to get some orange peel or knock down or ??? On it. If ya gotta bag it anyway, then you can just shoot it with an airless and be done with a reasonably decent (No idea how bad the seams are) end product. I dunno....there doesn't seem to be a lot of info, it's occupied though so if it's a 1 man band situation rolling it would seem advantageous I guess, easier to manage some of the spaces. And op was gun shy with the drywall skills anyway.....i freaking hate drywall.
> Wonder if there's enough in the budget to sub it out? A drywaller would knock it out quick!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


We used to spray textured paint "texcote" back in the 70's using pneumatic pumps. When I sprayed the non skid not too long ago, I used a hopper gun that actually would have worked pretty good if I had spent more time dialing it in. But check this site out for some military grade non skid spraying. http://pentech.us/2015/08/sprayable-non-skid-equipment/


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

getrex said:


> You can even roll mud.


Best idea yet. I read your post and said "duh"...
Get it up there and stipple the crap out of it with a big, fat 1 1/4"!

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## getrex (Feb 13, 2017)

A 3" would go farther.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

getrex said:


> A 3" would go farther.


Nap?

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## getrex (Feb 13, 2017)

Sure. Take it straight off a sheep and push it right up there.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

getrex said:


> Sure. Take it straight off a sheep and push it right up there.


Roflol....that's just baaaaaad.

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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

If you are using agrigate in your paint please use a drill and a paddle. It's not going to cover over as much defects as you think. The mudwork is primary. We do a tilt walls and spray Texcrete and other similar products and would not advise using a standard rig. First it's not going to come out of your gun and I have packed out a 1.5" hose, I couldn't imagine what it would do to a 3/8. 

Anyways, even shooting aggregate texture coatings on tilt walls won't cover up crappy concrete point outs. If you know how to spray accoustic popcorn then that's an option, it covers bad work to some extent, sand aggregate really won't give you what your hoping for. Just my opinion from a lot of experience.


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## cardgunner (Feb 29, 2016)

Okay first and foremost what an a$$ ache, actually a shoulder ache. I took the advice of my paint store and rolled Texolite sand paint. Bad idea. It gummed up on the edges. Also they said I didn't need to prime my fixes. I did where there was water marks but I got lazy and didn't the them all. Bad Idea. The sand stuck to those areas more then where it was primed. Also I cut in first. Bad. Cut in after with sand paint. Again. The cut in drys or starts to dry and when you roll on top of that it grabs more sand and leaves the ceiling uneven. It was a disaster. The key words are it was. I have fixed by repainting the ceiling with sand mixed in ceiling paint. It is a big difference and I should have done that from the beginning, I think. 

So my helpful hints would be to 
-Cut in after you roll. 
-Tape the walls. When you are cutting in for finish take tape off to get some paint on walls (in case you are painting the walls)
-Use ceiling paint mixed with sand or ceiling paint mixed with sand paint.
-For large areas have more then one person help to insure the edge is NOT dry. You need to keep the edge wet.
-I rolled it in 360 degrees and then moved on to next section. 

But really the ceiling should be fixed correctly. Strongly suggest that to the homeowner or business owner. There is nothing professional in sand painted ceilings. It looks like crap and makes you look like crap. I have no idea what I will do next time I get asked. Textured ceilings is different.


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## cardgunner (Feb 29, 2016)

Okay first and foremost what an a$$ ache, actually a shoulder ache. I took the advice of my paint store and rolled Texolite sand paint. Bad idea. It gummed up on the edges. Also they said I didn't need to prime my fixes. I did where there was water marks but I got lazy and didn't the them all. Bad Idea. The sand stuck to those areas more then where it was primed. Also I cut in first. Bad. Cut in after with sand paint. Again. The cut in drys or starts to dry and when you roll on top of that it grabs more sand and leaves the ceiling uneven. It was a disaster. The key words are it was. I have fixed by repainting the ceiling with sand mixed in ceiling paint. It is a big difference and I should have done that from the beginning, I think. 

So my helpful hints would be to 
-Cut in after you roll. 
-Tape the walls. When you are cutting in for finish take tape off to get some paint on walls (in case you are painting the walls)
-Use ceiling paint mixed with sand or ceiling paint mixed with sand paint.
-For large areas have more then one person help to insure the edge is NOT dry. You need to keep the edge wet.
-I rolled it in 360 degrees and then moved on to next section. 

But really the ceiling should be fixed correctly. Strongly suggest that to the homeowner or business owner. There is nothing professional in sand painted ceilings. It looks like crap and makes you look like crap. I have no idea what I will do next time I get asked. Textured ceilings is different.


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## getrex (Feb 13, 2017)

Not wanting to be a dick here... but what you are saying is that after we told you not to do it you did it anyway and now you regret it?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I told you so!


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## cardgunner (Feb 29, 2016)

You are right you all told me so. But do you NOT do it? The ceiling was just 1/3 the job. Do you not take the job? I had to sand paint it. I had to hide a bad taping job. If I had the advice that I posted afterward then the job MAY have not turned out so bad. Really the worse thing is I was told by one person to put the sand in the p[aint and my supplier said absolutely not and to use the redi mix texolite. But yes you did tell me but in the event that you have to do it I didn't get any helpful hints.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

cardgunner said:


> You are right you all told me so. But do you NOT do it? The ceiling was just 1/3 the job. Do you not take the job? I had to sand paint it. I had to hide a bad taping job. If I had the advice that I posted afterward then the job MAY have not turned out so bad. Really the worse thing is I was told by one person to put the sand in the p[aint and my supplier said absolutely not and to use the redi mix texolite. But yes you did tell me but in the event that you have to do it I didn't get any helpful hints.


Of course I'm just messing with you. And clearly you had no choice in the matter. I don't think I could have made that ceiling look any better than you.


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## getrex (Feb 13, 2017)

Maybe I'm just confused here. Was it the HO or you that decided that putting a texture on the ceiling was necessary? If it was the HO then that's fine, but if it wasn't then you basically chose to do it the hard way. Mudding is not difficult. There are hundreds of videos on YouTube that show you how to do it. And it is a lot easier than rolling sand. It would take more time, but the end result would have been a nice smooth ceiling.


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## Toolseeker (May 25, 2017)

You can always roll on the mud then stamp a design in it. Pretty easy and would probably look better than sand.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

cardgunner said:


> Okay first and foremost what an a$$ ache, actually a shoulder ache. I took the advice of my paint store and rolled Texolite sand paint. Bad idea. It gummed up on the edges. Also they said I didn't need to prime my fixes. I did where there was water marks but I got lazy and didn't the them all. Bad Idea. The sand stuck to those areas more then where it was primed. Also I cut in first. Bad. Cut in after with sand paint. Again. The cut in drys or starts to dry and when you roll on top of that it grabs more sand and leaves the ceiling uneven. It was a disaster. The key words are it was. I have fixed by repainting the ceiling with sand mixed in ceiling paint. It is a big difference and I should have done that from the beginning, I think.
> 
> So my helpful hints would be to
> -Cut in after you roll.
> ...


I truly admire your humility in sharing your experience. That takes ba775.
And... told ya so.  
I'm telling ya, the education in this trade is expensive and sometimes literally painful.
Yell the paint store guy to shove his idea up his.....dummy. you needed some paint that was a normal consistency cuz you were adding something to it that was gonna suck the moisture out. Coulda added water I guess bit eh...take yer lump and learning a bit more about mud and texture would be a great idea....save ya lots of headaches, builds your self confidence and skill set and makes for a better end product. If you're any good with a spackle knife, that's a good place to start. It's just bigger knifes and bigger spaces. Yes, there's much to learn but its not all that hard (except sanding...gawd I hate that part)

And,by the way, we offered all the help we could as none of us would do that to a lid for all the reasons you learned...
Good luck on your next project

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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

lilpaintchic said:


> I truly admire your humility in sharing your experience. That takes ba775.
> And... told ya so.
> I'm telling ya, the education in this trade is expensive and sometimes literally painful.
> Yell the paint store guy to shove his idea up his.....dummy. you needed some paint that was a normal consistency cuz you were adding something to it that was gonna suck the moisture out. Coulda added water I guess bit eh...take yer lump and learning a bit more about mud and texture would be a great idea....save ya lots of headaches, builds your self confidence and skill set and makes for a better end product. If you're any good with a spackle knife, that's a good place to start. It's just bigger knifes and bigger spaces. Yes, there's much to learn but its not all that hard (except sanding...gawd I hate that part)
> ...


All he had to do was try rolling that stuff on a floor and he would have saved himself a lot of grief. His "sand paint" was essentially non-skid. Now on the other hand, had he tooled the material for a faux effect, like combing, or sweeping with a trowel or brush, the results may have been different. But as a means to cover up ceiling defects, there are much better and easier ways.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

CApainter said:


> All he had to do was try rolling that stuff on a floor and he would have saved himself a lot of grief. His "sand paint" was essentially non-skid. Now on the other hand, had he tooled the material for a faux effect, like combing, or sweeping with a trowel or brush, the results may have been different. But as a means to cover up ceiling defects, there are much better and easier ways.


Well, lesson learned I guess.....im still voting for the mop the mud on suggestion. If you're gonna have a crappy looking lid at the end of the job anyway, why not make it easy! Big bucket, mud, water, and a big, fat cover...just mop the bageezers out of it and take the check. Done.

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