# Cabinets, cabinets, cabinets....



## dillingerpaint (Sep 19, 2013)

OK, Seems that there are a hundred different post on how to paint cabinets and yet I cant find the answer i need. I am painting kitchen cabinets with 36 doors and 18 drawers. I will be using PPG/Porter products.

Questions...
1) Is cleaning and de-glosser enough or do i need to sand them all down. They are in very good condition in a darker stain now.

2) Is a good universal primer good enough?

3) Trying to decide between PPG BREAKTHROUGH or Porter Glyptex. Breakthrough definitely seems to have advantages. 

4) Spray Hanging or Lying down?

5) Do I remove the drawer face and spray and take the whole drawer and mask off?

Any advice would be great.
Thanks!


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

dillingerpaint said:


> OK, Seems that there are a hundred different post on how to paint cabinets and yet I cant find the answer i need. I am painting kitchen cabinets with 36 doors and 18 drawers. I will be using PPG/Porter products. Questions... 1) Is cleaning and de-glosser enough or do i need to sand them all down. They are in very good condition in a darker stain now. 2) Is a good universal primer good enough? 3) Trying to decide between PPG BREAKTHROUGH or Porter Glyptex. Breakthrough definitely seems to have advantages. 4) Spray Hanging or Lying down? 5) Do I remove the drawer face and spray and take the whole drawer and mask off? Any advice would be great. Thanks!


1. Depends on the current substrate. Always safer to sand after cleaning and de glossing. 
2 & 3. If you are using breakthrough you don't need to prime. If using another product you will most likely need to prime. Not sure what you mean by universal primer. BIN, Stix, Smart prime would all be good choices. 
3. Not familiar with Glyptex. Haven't used breakthrough on a cabinet job yet, though I'm getting ready to do my own with it this winter. Others on here have used it with success. 
4. Either way. I like to shoot hanging so I can do both sides at once. Breakthrough dries fast so you could also shoot flat and not have to wait as long to flip as if you were using Advance or other coatings. I has really fast blocking resistance, so it won't stick when you flip 
5. Some drawer fades come off easy, then you can hang and spray. Sometimes it's easier to mask the drawer and shoot them standing on their end. If you are brushing the frames you might also brush the drawer faces and just spray the doors. All depends. 

Good luck.


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## Steve Richards (Dec 31, 2010)

That's what I like. Simple question, simple answer, end of thread.


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## manfrompaint (Oct 22, 2013)

If you prime with BIN it will eliminate the need to sand or degloss prior to prime coat application.
I have a spray shop and paint previously clear coated cabs all the time. Key is a good cleaning with ammonia and water first to break down any grease. Then prime with bin then fill, sand caulk, then reprime scuff sand and top coat. If the grain is open, such as oak, you will want to spray a little on the cab first, take a brush, work it in, then give it a nice wet coat. Use 2x2s set up on paint cans held with duct tape to make a dry rack. And keep everything at room temp. Product, air, substrate. Oh ya turn the music up loud and have fun. We call this Rambo style....before we got gentrified. Brad


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Steve Richards said:


> That's what I like. Simple question, simple answer, end of thread.


It is never that easy.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Workaholic said:


> It is never that easy.


That's for sure! I don't know why I even do them. I think it's a sick determination I have that " the next time it's gonna go better." syndrome. Am doing mine right now, well, started yesterday and gonna keep going tomorrow with a couple of my guys helping around the house. I am trying the breakthrough. I'm not really happy with the brush and roll areas, face frames, drawer faces etc. I'm gonna have to spray the doors to get decent results. I'm re-thinking using this stuff since it doesn't brush nearly a well as Advance, and spray is not always an option. But then there's that determination thing again, and I really want it to work, so we'll see.


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

Id rather paint ceilings than do cabs.


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## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

Why are you brushing the frames? Take the extra 2 hours to tape off and spray. BREAKTHROUGH needs to be sprayed because it sucks to brush roll. Make sure you strain it before you spray because every can I have ever used has been full of crud. Also re-strain it again if it has sat in the can for more than a few hours because for whatever reason it will develop sand like granules.


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## dillingerpaint (Sep 19, 2013)

Spraying is not an option on the frames with the HO. I am planning on using a 3/16 molehair roller to hopefully get a smooth as can be finish. i primed all the doors today using a rac-x 308 tip and was very pleased with the finish. BUT, even after sanding, deglosser and denatured alcohol i still had craters and erosion. the cabinets are in good "clean" shape. must just take a heck of a cleaning.


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## Monstertruck (Oct 26, 2013)

dillingerpaint said:


> Spraying is not an option on the frames with the HO. I am planning on using *a 3/16 molehair roller* to hopefully get a smooth as can be finish. i primed all the doors today using a rac-x 308 tip and was very pleased with the finish. BUT, even after sanding, deglosser and denatured alcohol i still had craters and erosion. the cabinets are in good "clean" shape. must just take a heck of a cleaning.


How on earth do they get the moles to hold still while shearing the hair off and just how many moles does it take per roller cover?


I've tried making my own mole hair covers, but it takes months for the hairs to get long enough to use.


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## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

In my experience with Breakthrough you will get better results with a 3/8 or 1/4 nap microfiber. A molehair wont lay on enough paint to give the paint time to lay out flat before it starts to set up. Sherwin-Williams has some decent 4" microfiber cover that I have had good results when rolling. You need to move quickly and make sure you keep you edges very wet or it will dry and build up edges rather fast.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Thx for the tip on the rollers. I wasn't happy with the mohair I used. 
Sprayed the doors today. Color change. Tried to go too heavy too fast. Bunch of runs until I dialed back the fluid on the hvlp. Then looked great. 
Just didn't want to mask off to spray frames. I dropped down from #5 to #4 fluid section.


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## finefinish (Oct 20, 2013)

Im trying to talk our customer out of using the advance on 
the multi cabinet project we have in progress
just takes too long to cure fully .We painted the backs,
waited 4 days to flip, and still got some impressions
from the sheets we used to pad the 2x4s
not sure if its something were doing wrong but this stuff takes
an insane time to cure


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## DirtyPainter (Oct 18, 2013)

How's the sag on breakthrough? Never used it, and I'm looking for a good product to use on a cabinet job. I've got four vanities and a large kitchen to do, and I kinda wanted to try something new. I typically use Gripper for a primer and Behr for finish, I know most of you hate that but I am usually happy with my results.. But I'd like to play with some higher end WB products and see how much better they can't get :wink:


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## DirtyPainter (Oct 18, 2013)

I'll also be breaking in my new graco 9.5 hvlp 

Wanna see how many learning curves I can throw into one job.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

DirtyPainter said:


> How's the sag on breakthrough? Never used it, and I'm looking for a good product to use on a cabinet job. I've got four vanities and a large kitchen to do, and I kinda wanted to try something new. I typically use Gripper for a primer and Behr for finish, I know most of you hate that but I am usually happy with my results.. But I'd like to play with some higher end WB products and see how much better they can't get :wink:


Dude! Edit your post before they read this:shutup:


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## DirtyPainter (Oct 18, 2013)

Bender said:


> Dude! Edit your post before they read this:shutup:


Which part am I editing? I don't claim to know everything, which is why I joined this forum!


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

As I posted somewhere else just shot some breakthrough through hvlp. Went too heavy on first coat, did get some sags. The key ive found is getting the right viscosity so the coating not only atomizes but "wets out" and flows all nice together. Do sample sprays first. Then dial down the fluid nozzle until you get a nice light coat. Don't go for full color coverage in first coat. It sprays really nice this way. 
My first mix has both XIM extender and water. The extra amount of XIM may have led to sags. I typically run just water with hvlp. That's what I did 2nd attempt and it was fine. Also stuck my cup in hot water for a few minutes first. That helps with flow and to resist sags. 
You can do a lot of cabinet doors with 1 quart properly thinned and sprayed.


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## USBA (Mar 9, 2013)

finefinish said:


> Im trying to talk our customer out of using the advance on
> the multi cabinet project we have in progress
> just takes too long to cure fully .We painted the backs,
> waited 4 days to flip, and still got some impressions
> ...


Had similar issue with cabinets last month in Berkeley, CA. Still not sure what caused the problem the only thing I could think is that is fall, coastal and lots of moisture in the air. Either way I was told to contain the area and crank up the heater and it worked. The cabinets cured in abt 8 hrs.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

USBA said:


> Had similar issue with cabinets last month in Berkeley, CA. Still not sure what caused the problem the only thing I could think is that is fall, coastal and lots of moisture in the air. Either way I was told to contain the area and crank up the heater and it worked. The cabinets cured in abt 8 hrs.


Yes humidity will make you choose another paint. I did me.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

I just used Advance on a brush and roll trim job. We were going over old hard semi gloss alkyd enamel. Very old. Most of the surfaces were cleaned and primed with the new BIN ADVANCED synthetic shellac. It worked great. The cool thing is there was a couple of door edges that got missed. I sanded them with 180 and painted them with advance yesterday. I tested them with my fingernail today and the paint was on there tight. Didn't budge. I know they warn about adhesion issues over old enamel and lacquer, but it held really well. We painted the cabinet doors hanging as they had been before, so I can't comment on flipping times or issues.


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## Masterpiece (Feb 26, 2008)

Just out of curiosity Damon, do you usually paint them hanging or is it simply a job by job basis? I have in the past though I haven't taken on any cabinet jobs in a while due to lack of time.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Well actually these were still installed and hanging, which is different from my normal remove doors, install hooks, and hang on coat hangers to spray. These ones already had painted hinges etc so i just left then on and brushed them out.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

I'm not really into spray finishing my cabinets. Too stressfull! Clean with TSPE, sand,Prime with stix, top coat with Aura by brush and wizz roller. Flawless. All my doors are removed and painted off site, ..usually.


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## I peeky English (May 1, 2012)

Im in southern california and I have changed over to water base undercoater with water base lacquer finish. (Not talking about clear coats or stains) I use an airless with a 210 or 310 tip. Sold my HVLP years ago. They key is to sand between coats and especially after undercoater. Lay them flat it enables you to spray heavy. Second best thing I ever purchased as a painter
http://www.erecta-rack.com/ 

Best thing I ever purchased: for spraying doors: Both sides at once
http://www.speedpainting.com/


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## Phinnster (Feb 20, 2013)

I peeky
What products are you using

Will waterbased lacquer hold bleeding or os bin or kilz a must ?


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