# Why do painters complain when paint goes up?



## Harry (Aug 4, 2008)

That's the question...

Why do painters complain when the price of paint goes up?


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Don't hit me with the client pays for it stuff, who cares stuff, or I will be sick.lol


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

I'd have to guess that those who complain about the price going up do so because it means they'll make less money off the job. 

Doesn't bother me none though, prices for materials are always accounted for in my bids, so if it goes up by $10 or down by $10 it doesn't affect my bottom line.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

There we go again. I knew it.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

With that analogy what would happen if it went up 100.00 per gallon? Would you still say that?


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

johnpaint said:


> With that analogy what would happen if it went up 100.00 per gallon? Would you still say that?


Yup. 

Customers wouldn't like it though. 

But it's still just a cost and it's still built into the price.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

Sure, it would still apply. Do you buy paint for more than you charge the customers for now or in the past? Why would you in the future. If you estimate jobs based on the amount of time it takes to do the job plus the cost of materials, it is a non-issue. Worst case scenario you need to offer an option B with lower cost paint.

If you use a material mark up, you make more when paint goes up.

If you use a per sq. ft. of floor space estimating method that has not increased or gone down since the 1990's like many new construction painters, then it may suck if paint goes up though.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

I don't know if you have thought about this, but as prices go up it makes clients wait an extra few months to do their job or maybe they do it themselves, or maybe lose their homes and don't do the job at all. How about higher taxes, does this stimulate business to you?


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

I don't think this just a painter thing. No business minded, in any profession, likes to see a increase with their supplies.


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

There may be a minor adjustment period if the change is huge, but look at it this way. 

If materials are 15% of a job and increase by 100%, then a $5,000 job now costs 5,750. Does it really make sense that someone will not paint an exterior that needs protection to save $750 that will cost them potentially thousands if they do not? Cost/benefit analysis tells me they will most often still paint it.

As far as taxes, that applies differently, but economically speaking and psychologically speaking.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

The question is, how much would it have to go up before some of you would say it could be a problem?


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## Harry (Aug 4, 2008)

Dean's right.

If paint goes up, everyone has to buy the same paint.
If paint goes up, so does our markup.
If markup goes up, we have more money, simple.

I see guys complaining all of the time about this...


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Painters complain when the price of paint goes up because we are defeatists, the little guys of the business world. Everyone makes or has more money than us and forces outside of our control have all the cards stacked against any chance for our success. 

Have you seen our rrp threads?


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Harry said:


> Dean's right.
> 
> If paint goes up, everyone has to buy the same paint.
> If paint goes up, so does our markup.
> ...


Sure it does, but someone want to answer my question I asked?


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

For one thing you know where paint comes from right?


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

I guess, to make it simple. I'm looking at the bigger picture, not weather we are little painters with little minds, but weather people can afford it or not.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

Because as a _group, _"painters" are about the cheapest bunch you will find............


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

You really feel that way?


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Please tell me why we are any more cheaper than a cross section of the nation?


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Because as a _group, _"painters" are about the cheapest bunch you will find............


Yep we bitch about DIY and then complain when the guy wants X amount for his services and then say hell with that I will just do it myself.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

I don't mind the small increases, that can be accounted for. It is the waste of paint that bothers me.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

I'm talking the group as a whole...

The low cost of entry into this trade tends to attract people who are "low cost" if you follow me.......


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

Harry said:


> Dean's right.
> 
> If paint goes up, everyone has to buy the same paint.
> If paint goes up, so does our markup.
> ...


I think that's pretty much bs. not even close to being that simple. maybe on paper it would appear that way, but not in the real world..

Pat


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> I'm talking the group as a whole...
> 
> The low cost of entry into this trade tends to attract people who are "low cost" if you follow me.......


I know what you are saying, I just want my kids to know that I'm proud of the work I do, and for us to talk down the work we do, just does not help anything.


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

johnpaint said:


> I know what you are saying, I just want my kids to know that I'm proud of the work I do, and for us to talk down the work we do, just does not help anything.


I hear ya. 

I'm a painter, my dad was a painter, my ex-wifes dad was a painter and and he also married a painters daughter.

So my two girls have a dad, two grand fathers and a great grandfather that are/were painters. 

Oh, and my oldest daughter has one more year and she will be an ASID interior decorator........


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## Harry (Aug 4, 2008)

johnpaint said:


> I know what you are saying, I just want my kids to know that I'm proud of the work I do, and for us to talk down the work we do, just does not help anything.


John,

I fed and clothed three kids by painting. There is nothing wrong with being a GOOD GUY painter. Problem is...well you KNOW what the problem is...it's the ones who bring the trade to it's knees...


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Harry said:


> John,
> 
> I fed and clothed three kids by painting. There is nothing wrong with being a GOOD GUY painter. Problem is...well you KNOW what the problem is...it's the ones who bring the trade to it's knees...


There will always be those guy's, but maybe that's why some of us win bids even though we may be the higher bidder. Life is short.


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## Harry (Aug 4, 2008)

johnpaint said:


> There will always be those guy's, but maybe that's why some of us win bids even though we may be the higher bidder. Life is short.


You're right!

When there is more than price to choose from, you may win...


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## wje (Apr 11, 2009)

Painters bitch about everything. We'd probably bitch if the price went down.


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

wje said:


> Painters bitch about everything. We'd probably bitch if the price went down.


According to Harry's Law of Economics, that would mean I would lose money. 

I'd bitch about that.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Harry said:


> That's the question...
> 
> Why do painters complain when the price of paint goes up?


Because they have no idea what their numbers are.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

NEPS.US said:


> Because they have no idea what their numbers are.


Yep - exactly what I told my mom when she started to complain about the cost of bread going up. I told her she just did not know her numbers.

Pat


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

PatsPainting said:


> Yep - exactly what I told my mom when she started to complain about the cost of bread going up. I told her she just did not know her numbers.
> 
> Pat


:laughing:


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## VanDamme (Feb 13, 2010)

Harry said:


> Dean's right.
> 
> If paint goes up, everyone has to buy the same paint.
> If paint goes up, so does our markup.
> ...


Do you complain when the price of food or gas goes up.....even to yourself?


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

As a manager of a paint retail store, I find it frustrating when, after two price absorptions, usually within a two year span, we have to give in and raise prices. (Usually a buck or two at the MOST.) Then ALL the painters bitch and moan, saying we're ripping them off, so on and so forth. Most painters don't get it, we're in the business to MAKE MONEY!!!!! I have to cover colorant costs, shipping costs, ect. On the interiors, we only make 5-7 dollars a gallon from the contractors, and exterior from 5 to 10 bucks. That's decent, but I'll be damned if it's less than that. Everyone in town now carries Cabot, so we're only making three to five bucks a gallon on stain!!! We're we DO make money is the average homeowner buying a gallon or two. No discounts for a small amount, and we're usually spending a half hour matching their damned home depot paint. When there's more demand or shortages on raw materials like titanium dioxide, ofcourse the prices goes up. But don't blame the local paint store. We're just trying to earn a living, and at the same time, not OVER-PRICING the guys and ripping them off.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

HH, I don't blame you at all. I understand you have to make a buck, but can't you just tack it on to the contract? You know it's just the cost of materials, the homeowner will pay for it.No biggie! LOL


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

No,the fact is we all pay for it, after we get our head out of the sand and look around.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

hammerheart14 said:


> As a manager of a paint retail store, I find it frustrating when, after two price absorptions, usually within a two year span, we have to give in and raise prices. (Usually a buck or two at the MOST.) Then ALL the painters bitch and moan, saying we're ripping them off, so on and so forth. Most painters don't get it, we're in the business to MAKE MONEY!!!!! I have to cover colorant costs, shipping costs, ect. On the interiors, we only make 5-7 dollars a gallon from the contractors, and exterior from 5 to 10 bucks. That's decent, but I'll be damned if it's less than that. Everyone in town now carries Cabot, so we're only making three to five bucks a gallon on stain!!! We're we DO make money is the average homeowner buying a gallon or two. No discounts for a small amount, and we're usually spending a half hour matching their damned home depot paint. When there's more demand or shortages on raw materials like titanium dioxide, ofcourse the prices goes up. But don't blame the local paint store. We're just trying to earn a living, and at the same time, not OVER-PRICING the guys and ripping them off.


Felt some anger there.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Any expense to business that the homeowner is not willing to spend, slows down business.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

ewingpainting.net said:


> Felt some anger there.


I don't blame him at all, but it is across the board, we all feel it when times are like this.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

hammerheart14 said:


> As a manager of a paint retail store, I find it frustrating when, after two price absorptions, usually within a two year span, we have to give in and raise prices. (Usually a buck or two at the MOST.) Then ALL the painters bitch and moan, saying we're ripping them off, so on and so forth. Most painters don't get it, we're in the business to MAKE MONEY!!!!! I have to cover colorant costs, shipping costs, ect. On the interiors, we only make 5-7 dollars a gallon from the contractors, and exterior from 5 to 10 bucks. That's decent, but I'll be damned if it's less than that. Everyone in town now carries Cabot, so we're only making three to five bucks a gallon on stain!!! We're we DO make money is the average homeowner buying a gallon or two. No discounts for a small amount, and we're usually spending a half hour matching their damned home depot paint. When there's more demand or shortages on raw materials like titanium dioxide, ofcourse the prices goes up. But don't blame the local paint store. We're just trying to earn a living, and at the same time, not OVER-PRICING the guys and ripping them off.



Well when gas went up to 5 bucks a gallon, prices increased due to transporting. Never went back down. so your ripping us off..

Pat


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

PatsPainting said:


> Well when gas went up to 5 bucks a gallon, prices increased due to transporting. Never went back down. so your ripping us off..
> 
> Pat


prices never drop in paint. so if you're being sarcastic, it's cool. but if you are calling me a ripoff, screw you!!!! i take pride in being a good, honest person, who doesn't lie. i take pride in the fact that i give my customers 110% everyday, the best advice i can give, i look out fo rboth the homeowner and th epainter, i call it down the line, and the i try to have best prices while still making money. so if you're serious (i couldn't tell) how DARE you call me a ripoff!


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

p.s. yeah, and don't you think that BM is a little over-priced?


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

hammerheart14 said:


> p.s. yeah, and don't you think that BM is a little over-priced?


Nope - well worth it in my opinion.

Pat


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

hammerheart14 said:


> prices never drop in paint. so if you're being sarcastic, it's cool. but if you are calling me a ripoff, screw you!!!! i take pride in being a good, honest person, who doesn't lie. i take pride in the fact that i give my customers 110% everyday, the best advice i can give, i look out fo rboth the homeowner and th epainter, i call it down the line, and the i try to have best prices while still making money. so if you're serious (i couldn't tell) how DARE you call me a ripoff!


relax - just saying that was lame, to raise the prices saying cost of transport is the reason cuz of the high prices in fuel. Then fuel drops and nothing changes.

Pat


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

PatsPainting said:


> relax - just saying that was lame, to raise the prices saying cost of transport is the reason cuz of the high prices in fuel. Then fuel drops and nothing changes.
> 
> Pat


no, prices were raised due to raises in paint cost. if you read what i said, we had TWO paint increases before we finially had to raise prices on paint. shipping costs haven't gone up, that was always included in our total cost, along with colorant. the shortages on titanium dioxide is probally what caused the most recent price raises. but it seems like every year, paint companies are raising their cost.


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## VanDamme (Feb 13, 2010)

johnpaint said:


> Any expense to business that the homeowner is not willing to spend, slows down business.


That's true John.....to a point.

While I feel the original question is somewhat silly, add in some of the other expenses that "just get passed on" and, at some point, part of our customer base is not going to pay it.


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

PatsPainting said:


> Nope - well worth it in my opinion.
> 
> Pat


I can sell a top line product from P&L, save you money, and guarentee it will perform as good as any BM top line product.


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## Brian (Apr 10, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> Because they have no idea what their numbers are.


I think that that is certainly part of it. But I think a more basic reason is the belief that price wins jobs. Anything that increases the price of the job is then seen as a threat to getting that job. In reality, an increase in the cost of paint has a minimal impact on the price of the job. 

As an example, let's say your average job is $2K and you spend 10% on materials, or $200. A 10% price increase in paint means you spend another $20 on that job. I would argue that if $20 is going to break this deal, you have other issues to address besides the cost of paint.

Some seem to dismiss Harry's claim that an increase in the cost of paint means more money in your pocket. This implies that they aren't marking up materials, which is a huge mistake.

Paint does not magically appear on the job site. You have to drive to the store, place the order, wait for it to be mixed, and then return to the job. (I am not going to address the fact that this is inefficient and there are better ways to get materials. But this is what most contractors do.) Let us say that this takes an hour. That is an hour of lost production time, and if you aren't being compensated for that, you are playing delivery driver for free.

Let us also assume that your average purchase is $100 and that you charge $40 an hour. Your hour of lost production has cost you $40. However, if you mark up materials 40% or $40 in this example you recover that cost. 

If you believe that price wins jobs, then this 40% markup is another threat to winning the job. In the above example, this is only an additional $8. If $8 is going to kill the deal, you really have other issues that you need to address.

Brian Phillips


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

I dont like it when the price of anything goes up. And neither do the people I sell to., its one more hurdle to overcome when selling. Real world experience, in todays market, price weighs in as one of the many factors when selecting a painting contractor. I will say when I brake out the price of paint in a estimate and give them several lines of paint to choose from the most expensive being the best they usually go for the most expensive lol


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

I'm handing out thanks in this thread like an out of work painter with door hangers!


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

RCP said:


> I don't mind the small increases, that can be accounted for. It is the waste of paint that bothers me.


To "borrow" a phrase from Orson Wells: "We will waste no paint before it's time." LOL


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## Wolfgang (Nov 16, 2008)

Brian said:


> I think that that is certainly part of it. But I think a more basic reason is the belief that price wins jobs. Anything that increases the price of the job is then seen as a threat to getting that job. In reality, an increase in the cost of paint has a minimal impact on the price of the job.
> 
> As an example, let's say your average job is $2K and you spend 10% on materials, or $200. A 10% price increase in paint means you spend another $20 on that job. I would argue that if $20 is going to break this deal, you have other issues to address besides the cost of paint.
> 
> ...


Totally agree with you on this Brian. How many here would actually pass on a job if the price of their paint increased a couple bucks a gallon? There were plenty of times I upgraded paint on a job which "cost" me a buck or two a gallon. Well worth it and a great selling tool....especially when the HO sees a Mfg 15yr paint upgraded to a 25yr paint. This is why I never "threw" in a free room; instead I upgraded the product. Made more sense to me to absorb the few bucks a gallon as opposed to a few hours labor. All depends on how it's presented.

As far as being ticked off at the paint store, that doesnt make alot of sense either. You wanna complain, contact the Mfg.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

Last heavy SW increase was blamed on the increased cost of fuel.Funny how it never went down went fuel costs went down.Then it was blamed on raw material costs. We do not all pay the same price for our paint so a % increase translates differently across the board.If you dont think a difference of a few hundred dollars on your price of say $3,000 to a prospective customer matters you need to stop kidding yourself.


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## Roamer (Jul 5, 2010)

hammerheart14 said:


> I can sell a top line product from P&L, save you money, and guarentee it will perform as good as any BM top line product.


P&L in our market is only just barely less expensive than Aura. The BM Regal line beats it hands down in price.


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## Harry (Aug 4, 2008)

PatsPainting said:


> I think that's pretty much bs. not even close to being that simple. maybe on paper it would appear that way, but not in the real world..
> 
> Pat


What is the real world? I'm giving you real world examples...


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

Have you guys ever wondered what would happen if materials cost became 90% of our estimates? And we all have to pay the same pricing? Imagine a 50% price swing in labor from one company to the next would only translate to a 5% swing in total price! 

I pray for the cost of materials to go up all the time, it's the only thing that will remove all the warts and leave behind the guys that know their numbers. l could care less what a homeowner pays to Benjamin Moore, I only care I got the contract with my profit margins.


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

Their is a huge difference between using $45 a gallon of paint and $25 a gallon of paint when bidding jobs that take 25 gallons of paint, how many point this out when doing estimates?? I never use to brake out labor and paint, but now adays Im thinking a little differnt


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## M.Pillow (Jul 7, 2010)

I think maybe the price of _anything_ going up reminds us of how we, as everyday hard working Americans, are coughing up more and more money to keep ourselves and loved ones sheltered and fed, while making the same income each year.

I agree, it is disheartening to have the prices raised so much, to be told it was due to rising fuel costs, (and I recall the letters from Ben Moore stating that as the reason in 2007-08) only to keep seeing price increases even when the price of fuel has dropped. 

However, anyone believing they would readjust their pricing lower when it did, is a bit naive if you ask me.

Also, I think showing our customers that larger number is somewhat stressful, and no one looks forward to that conversation when everyone is already stretched so thin financial wise. 

So when a gallon of my favorite paint is now $3-$5 bucks more, my first reaction is "Oh,come on!".


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

johnpaint said:


> For one thing you know where paint comes from right?



When a Daddy paint loves a Mommy paint veeeeerrrry much....


lol.


The price I am charged is always far less than retail anyways so it don't be matter much in WiseneyLand.
I don't mark up my materials on contracts, the client receives my price 100% of the time. I love it when they do the math and realize I am the only contractor they (and 5 of their freinds) will ever need!

Raise away!!


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

P.S. I live 4 blocks from my S.W. which is .05 miles from a major highway/ interstate interchange that will take you in every direction...

pure efficiency!


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

Anybody can work for a homeowner for $17/hr with no markup on materials and be loved. That's like saying you are loved as a lexus car salesman, when you are selling them for 5k a pop - of course people will love you, duhhhh!


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## VanDamme (Feb 13, 2010)

*"I love it when they do the math......"*

Seriously? That happens?


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## VanDamme (Feb 13, 2010)

WisePainter said:


> P.S. I live 4 blocks from my S.W. which is .05 miles from a major highway/ interstate interchange that will take you in every direction...
> 
> pure efficiency!


What happens if you're 5 miles away? Dave summed it up perfectly IMO
----------------------------------------------------------------
"Paint does not magically appear on the job site. You have to drive to the store, place the order, wait for it to be mixed, and then return to the job. (I am not going to address the fact that this is inefficient and there are better ways to get materials. But this is what most contractors do.) Let us say that this takes an hour. That is an hour of lost production time, and if you aren't being compensated for that, you are playing delivery driver for free."
----------------------------------------------------------------


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

plainpainter said:


> Anybody can work for a homeowner for $17/hr with no markup on materials and be loved. That's like saying you are loved as a lexus car salesman, when you are selling them for 5k a pop - of course people will love you, duhhhh!


All of a sudden I am craving a proper VerNEPS flame, cleanse the palette after that failed attempt ...stick to being "plain" bro.





VanDamme said:


> *"I love it when they do the math......"*
> 
> Seriously? That happens?


I use full disclosure with my paint pricing, as a matter of fact my Duration matte runs $31.00 before taxes. 
Super popular finish/product, S.W. brand recognition...sold.
Labor and sundries/AP prices are not available for discussion...evar.
No I do not offer itemized deductions.
Frankly after I have kicked every other painter to the curb (with my tales of adventure, and intrigue) I am able to extract the sweet nectar of delicious money from my clients, and the only question they have for me is:

"When can you start."


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

VanDamme said:


> What happens if you're 5 miles away? Dave summed it up perfectly IMO
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> "Paint does not magically appear on the job site. You have to drive to the store, place the order, wait for it to be mixed, and then return to the job. (I am not going to address the fact that this is inefficient and there are better ways to get materials. But this is what most contractors do.) Let us say that this takes an hour. That is an hour of lost production time, and if you aren't being compensated for that, you are playing delivery driver for free."



Not a problem...as I posted already.

I live practically next door to 2 S.W. stores...both are custom NC, freestanding locations. None of that musty stale strip mall B.S.

Both are less than a 2 minute jaunt. 
HUGE money resides in these hills in order to sustain such glorious locations indeed.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

Wise, come clean, are you a $17/hr painter - yes or no? Go on the record.


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

plainpainter said:


> Wise, come clean, are you a $17/hr painter - yes or no? Go on the record.


you really aren't very good at this are you then.

Because I have a soft spot in my heart for "slow" people...


"Yes Plainpainter, I WisePainter only make $17.00 per hour."

lol.


now run along and play.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

We as suppliers don't like it just as the painters don't either. It sucks, but that's what happens. I try to raise my prices every year, whether I get an increase or not. If I get the random cost increase during the year typically im covered. Rarely do I get complaints. Most complaints come from the bulk buying customers.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

I would never in a million years let the client know what I pay for materials. The other day I had some paint brought out to a job and they left the receipt, I could have killed them. We are not plumbers here are we? Do we itemize? Are we crazy? Do we work by the hour? Are we workers, or are we owners?
This forum maybe should have a section for owners, and a section for workers, because the two don't need to mix.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

The cost of materials doesn't make a popcorn fart of difference in whether we get the job or not. Sorry, just about tryin to keep it real.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> The cost of materials doesn't make a popcorn fart of difference in whether we get the job or not. Sorry, just about tryin to keep it real.


I don't know, some of those pop corn farts can be deadly


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

If paint keeps going up I bet those deposit percentages will rise too.:whistling2:


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## wje (Apr 11, 2009)

This thread is hillarious. 

Imagine a shoe salesman getting national buying power with every huge shoe manufacturer known to man, and offering them to the public at cost?

It would be hard not to love him.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

wje said:


> This thread is hillarious.
> 
> Imagine a shoe salesman getting national buying power with every huge shoe manufacturer known to man, and offering them to the public at cost?
> 
> It would be hard not to love him.


Wise is a shoe sales---man


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

But the shoe man would still be broke with no mark-up. And only the first couple customers would get their shoes.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

DeanV said:


> But the shoe man would still be broke with no mark-up. And only the first couple customers would get their shoes.


Dean, don't you know it is wrong to mark up you materials, people wont like you after you do that.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

I'm not sure but I think that is why the paint store give contractor a break, right?


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

NEPS.US said:


> If paint keeps going up I bet those deposit percentages will rise too.:whistling2:


Some may need a 90% deposit. :jester:


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

WisePainter said:


> P.S. I live 4 blocks from my S.W. which is .05 miles from a major highway/ interstate interchange that will take you in every direction...
> 
> pure efficiency!


Which helps when putting a gallon in the basket on the handle bars of your bike.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

LMAO :lol:


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> Which helps when putting a gallon in the basket on the handle bars of your bike.


You just helped me save about $3k/month!


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

This type of contractor is what all of us have raved against for so long. How would you like to be bidding against this kind of guy?


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

johnpaint said:


> This type of contractor is what all of us have raved against for so long. How would you like to be bidding against this kind of guy?


My jobs are more than 10 miles from a SW. He'd be pooped by the time he got to the estimate.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

NEPS.US said:


> My jobs are more than 10 miles from a SW. He'd be pooped by the time he got to the estimate.


I didn't take that into account, my bad.


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

Watch and learn geezers!!

When your maxed out credit cards can no longer support your top heavy business you guys will beg me for my real secrets...of course they will be a $200.00 teleconference, the first one is free!


'cept you john, yer too old to start over, what with your broken body 'n all...

and you yoowing, I don't think your avatar is cool...it's more like a sample tattoo on the wall of a seedy parlor rather than "tough"...

sign up now VerNEPS!

Act now and take advantage of my "couples" rate!


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

The other day we were doing a home 15 miles south of home, paint store is 50 miles east, so they deliver to our house!:thumbup:


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

What is arch's number? I should like to exercise my exit strategy.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> What is arch's number?


Should I post it? :whistling2:


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

johnpaint said:


> I would never in a million years let the client know what I pay for materials. The other day I had some paint brought out to a job and they left the receipt, I could have killed them. We are not plumbers here are we? Do we itemize? Are we crazy? Do we work by the hour? Are we workers, or are we owners?
> This forum maybe should have a section for owners, and a section for workers, because the two don't need to mix.


Your such a hater.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

WisePainter said:


> Watch and learn geezers!!
> 
> When your maxed out credit cards can no longer support your top heavy business you guys will beg me for my real secrets...of course they will be a $200.00 teleconference, the first one is free!
> 
> ...


Yes,I would like to be young again, but if I had to be stupid too, I would pass.When I was your age I was not as cocky as you, but I had more confidence I think not to limit myself.
You really need to try to be more (Wise), and (think) before you talk.

Don't even think I'm mad at you, because I'm not at all. I feel for you man. when people get to your point there is a reason. I wish you well, but you will have an uphill walk.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> What is arch's number? I should like to exercise my exit strategy.


He left me with all those unpleasantries :laughing:


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> What is arch's number? I should like to exercise my exit strategy.





NEPS.US said:


> Should I post it? :whistling2:


The sanatorium is not allowing any calls yet.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

WisePainter said:


> Watch and learn geezers!!
> 
> When your maxed out credit cards can no longer support your top heavy business you guys will beg me for my real secrets...of course they will be a $200.00 teleconference, the first one is free!
> 
> ...


I think we all would pay 300, don't leave money on the table. 

I chose my avatar cause it was green.


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## VanDamme (Feb 13, 2010)

NEPS.US said:


> Which helps when putting a gallon in the basket on the handle bars of your bike.


LMAO! Now that's funny! :thumbup:


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

Roamer said:


> P&L in our market is only just barely less expensive than Aura. The BM Regal line beats it hands down in price.


My second best exterior line, p&l gold , runs $27.15 a gallon in the velvet sheen for the average licensed contractor, and the top guys, who spend around three grand or more a month, they get it at $25.56 a gallon. What's BM second bets line and their prices? Then the top exterior is the accolade eggshell, that runs $39.90 a gallon, and for the big boys (at our store) $37.56 a gallon. What does the Aura sell for? Anyways, for HO'S yeah, they pretty much don't get a price break, unless they're buying a larger amount (I'll give 10% off if they're planning on buying 10 gallons of paint or more.) We make our money off of the HO's, but it take more work to school them and explain how to paint, what goes on first, what they need to do for prep, ect, ect.


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## PaintMe201 (Sep 16, 2009)

1) The paint increases, if you're not a greedy store owner, should only be raised when the paint companies raise their prices. Paint companies never lower their prices. Even if the fuel comes down. Some stores don't even raise their price with one increase from the manufacturer. but when you start to get into 2 or 3 increases like a couple of years ago, we have to. As a store owner or manager, it's easier to eat the cost of an increase then to hear the contractors complain. Is it fair to the store, no, but what r ya gonna do.

2) To offset increases all the time, stores should be doing the little things that help the contractor out. Deliver to jobsites or shops, have the orders ready to go when the contractor walks in, all colors same price no matter the color. It's the little things that matter. If you can save the customer some kinda labor costs it helps the bottom line.

3) To the perception that contractors have, that Sherwin Williams or whatever other company owned stores have much better pricing then their competitors who sell through independents, it's bull. Stores can go toe to toe with Sherwin Williams, PPG or any other company any day of the week. Hammerheart talks about pricing this and pricing that, who cares. It's all about what the dealer is willing to make. 10 gallon jobs, to 10,000 gallon jobs that last a year or 2. if you're willing to make what you can, you can pretty much sell any job. Yeah Ben Moore dealers can't sell Aura for below 46.99. but who says I can't offer my contractors 2 free rolls of blue tape with every gallon sold. Or maybe a couple of rollers or handles. There are ways around everything. If you can sell, you can sell. Price matters but service matters just as much if not more sometimes


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

PaintMe201 said:


> 1) The paint increases, if you're not a greedy store owner, should only be raised when the paint companies raise their prices. Paint companies never lower their prices. Even if the fuel comes down. Some stores don't even raise their price with one increase from the manufacturer. but when you start to get into 2 or 3 increases like a couple of years ago, we have to. As a store owner or manager, it's easier to eat the cost of an increase then to hear the contractors complain. Is it fair to the store, no, but what r ya gonna do.
> 
> 2) To offset increases all the time, stores should be doing the little things that help the contractor out. Deliver to jobsites or shops, have the orders ready to go when the contractor walks in, all colors same price no matter the color. It's the little things that matter. If you can save the customer some kinda labor costs it helps the bottom line. i
> 
> 3) To the perception that contractors have, that Sherwin Williams or whatever other company owned stores have much better pricing then their competitors who sell through independents, it's bull. Stores can go toe to toe with Sherwin Williams, PPG or any other company any day of the week. Hammerheart talks about pricing this and pricing that, who cares. It's all about what the dealer is willing to make. 10 gallon jobs, to 10,000 gallon jobs that last a year or 2. if you're willing to make what you can, you can pretty much sell any job. Yeah Ben Moore dealers can't sell Aura for below 46.99. but who says I can't offer my contractors 2 free rolls of blue tape with every gallon sold. Or maybe a couple of rollers or handles. There are ways around everything. If you can sell, you can sell. Price matters but service matters just as much if not more sometimes


we had to raise prices after the second price increase. we absorbed the first, but if we hadn't raised our prices on the second, we'd pretty much be giving away all of our clear/neutral base paints to the contractors. i'm not in this business to make friends, I'm in it to earn a living, and I enjoy what I do. Milk goes up, lawnmowers go up, toys go up, cars go up in price, and so does paint. painters need to deal with it, and raise their prices if they can't handle a 2-5% paint increase. there's always behr paint, you know!!!


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## Harry (Aug 4, 2008)

I don't get it really. It seem that painters take price increases to heart. It's just business and whatever goes up or down must be adjusted...period.

I saw a 30% increase in metal framing in the last 6 months but everyone simply makes note and prices accordingly.

And BTW, the drywall and metal framing industries fluctuate a lot! Wood does too. But surprisingly, insulation stays the same, for years.

What makes anyone think that if the price goes up, the're all alone? Anyone who buys the paint has to pay the toll...


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Harry said:


> I don't get it really. It seem that painters take price increases to heart. It's just business and whatever goes up or down must be adjusted...period.
> 
> I saw a 30% increase in metal framing in the last 6 months but everyone simply makes note and prices accordingly.
> 
> ...


It is what it is brother, nothing to sweat about


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## Harry (Aug 4, 2008)

ewingpainting.net said:


> It is what it is brother, nothing to sweat about


What do you mean?


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

Harry said:


> I don't get it really. It seem that painters take price increases to heart. It's just business and whatever goes up or down must be adjusted...period.
> 
> I saw a 30% increase in metal framing in the last 6 months but everyone simply makes note and prices accordingly.
> 
> ...


 
Harry What Im finding in the residential market is the price is comming way down, their are more lowballer and fly by nights in my market then ever before, its very scary out here. maybe thats why you got out of residential painting market years ago smart man.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

johnpaint said:


> This type of contractor is what all of us have raved against for so long. How would you like to be bidding against this kind of guy?


See the thread, "So you thought painters were being screwed". Same scenario as that, only in a different field.


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## In Demand (Mar 24, 2008)

I pour Behr paint into a Duration bucket ...... problem solved.


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

ModernStyle said:


> I pour Behr paint into a Duration bucket ...... problem solved.


 
how do you say things with your websight in your signiture


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## Harry (Aug 4, 2008)

Dave Mac said:


> Harry What Im finding in the residential market is the price is comming way down, their are more lowballer and fly by nights in my market then ever before, its very scary out here. maybe thats why you got out of residential painting market years ago smart man.


Dave, I'm referring to material increases, not labor reduction.

BTW, I went from residential to commercial to residential, before I finished. The commercial market isn't much different than residential, it has it's own set of challenges. Two games, two sets of rules...


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## In Demand (Mar 24, 2008)

Dave Mac said:


> how do you say things with your websight in your signiture


If you search my company name this might come up on the 1000th page, I doubt anyone will do such an indepth search, and if they do and dont realize that I am kidding they they are too anal to work for anyways.
The only work I have gotten from forums ws a couple of other contractors at CT giving referals, its not like customers scour the forums looking for painters. Much easier to look in the phone book, or google, or even craigslist.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

Dave Mac said:


> how do you say things with your websight in your signiture





ModernStyle said:


> If you search my company name this might come up on the 1000th page, I doubt anyone will do such an indepth search, and if they do and dont realize that I am kidding they they are too anal to work for anyways.
> The only work I have gotten from forums ws a couple of other contractors at CT giving referals, its not like customers scour the forums looking for painters. Much easier to look in the phone book, or google, or even craigslist.


If they only knew how crazy you really are, eh Modern!


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

ModernStyle said:


> I pour Behr paint into a Duration bucket ...... problem solved.


My experience is most people think behr is just great, with the consumer reports raves, and all the marketing. Hell, if I used behr on 80% of my projects, the customers wouldn't bat an eye.


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## In Demand (Mar 24, 2008)

RCP said:


> If they only knew how crazy you really are, eh Modern!


I do good work, if I go home and dress in womens undergarments at the end of the day it doesnt effect the quality of my work. They hire me to paint, not be a role model for their kids.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

Pics please


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Harry said:


> Dean's right.
> 
> If paint goes up, everyone has to buy the same paint.
> If paint goes up, so does our markup.
> ...


Not true. All paints don't go up all the time. If you are using a premium product from SW and it goes up, of course you pass it along. 

But say it is a larger exterior. You are using 30 gallons, it goes up $5 per gallon now that is only a 150 dollars. But now you may be $150 higher than the other guy. If he is using a big box paint, you may now be $300 more. Again not a lot, but it may be enough for you to lose the job in the eye of the consumer.

So at that point, is it the cost of paint or the fear of losing the opportunity?

My only complaint about the process was when we were told "it's because the price of oil has gone up and it affects our transportation and raw materiral costs." Again, understandable, until the price of oil dropped back down. Seems to me that paint costs did not go down with it.


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## Harry (Aug 4, 2008)

bikerboy said:


> Not true. All paints don't go up all the time. If you are using a premium product from SW and it goes up, of course you pass it along.
> 
> But say it is a larger exterior. You are using 30 gallons, it goes up $5 per gallon now that is only a 150 dollars. But now you may be $150 higher than the other guy. If he is using a big box paint, you may now be $300 more. Again not a lot, but it may be enough for you to lose the job in the eye of the consumer.
> 
> ...


I don't buy that at all...and why are you bidding jobs against guys who are using crap paint?

Why aren't you differentiating yourself?

Nope...don't see it as a game changer because I live it every day. May sound plausible in text but my experience tells me otherwise. Sure, it may happen but when people start losing jobs because of a paint hike...there must be other problems...just my opinion...


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

Harry said:


> I don't buy that at all...and why are you bidding jobs against guys who are using crap paint?


After reading that, I wonder if you really been out there in the real world.

Pat


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

ModernStyle said:


> If you search my company name this might come up on the 1000th page,


I don't know I just goggled it and on the first three pages it is mostly RC, CT and PT posts. 



ModernStyle said:


> I doubt anyone will do such an indepth search, and if they do and dont realize that I am kidding they they are too anal to work for anyways.


I agree with you though. On the other hand it still could turn off a customer you may have gotten. At the same time though you will never know you lost them.


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Harry said:


> I don't buy that at all...and why are you bidding jobs against guys who are using crap paint?
> 
> Why aren't you differentiating yourself?
> 
> Nope...don't see it as a game changer because I live it every day. May sound plausible in text but my experience tells me otherwise. Sure, it may happen but when people start losing jobs because of a paint hike...there must be other problems...just my opinion...


Actually I bid against all kind of guys using all kinds of materials. Who of us can control who the homeowner contacts? 

I don't know if we are different, but we currently have a months worth of work. If I didn't recently fire a builder, I'd have 6-7 weeks worth of work. 

Work isn't the problem, but because you and I may not be experiancing a work shortage, does not mean it dosen't exist for others. 

Just because the cost of paint does not affect you, it does not mean it does not have an effect on others.

Just because our business may have less of an impact from lowballers, it does not mean that there is no impact upon others.

JMHO.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

bikerboy said:


> I don't know if we are different, but we currently have a months worth of work. If I didn't recently fire a builder, I'd have 6-7 weeks worth of work. Work isn't the problem, but because you and I may not be experiancing a work shortage, does not it dosen't exist for others.
> 
> 
> Bb
> ...


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Maybe 4 weeks worth is a more accurate statement. Plus several more jobs in the works, just don't count them until the ink is dry.


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

Ok, Harry, the real reason why painters bitch about materials costs going up, is because they have lowballed their work so much, that Direct overhead is 70%+ of gross sales. And they think the way to be busy is to be cheap. The thing is, they've been doing this a few years now, and stuff like vehicles getting old is starting to creep up on them - and have no real budget left to deal with those things.


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

Harry said:


> Why do painters complain when the price of paint goes up?


Right now I am complaining because of what the material that is causing the paint shortage is getting used for instead of paint.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

I had a dream that all the paint contractors in the country were drafted to perform the cleanup of the oil spill on all affected coastlines. The president said that since there are so many of us, and we already work for next to nothing, and our usual course of business is not essential to the economy, and we already have high levels of toxic exposure that we were the logical choice. All I remember is everyone complaining about the suits, respirators, nitrile gloves and footwear. Also, at lunch time, we could never agree on what kind of pizza to order. It was a freaking nightmare.


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> and our usual course of business is not essential to the economy, and we already have high levels of toxic exposure that we were the logical choice.


:lol:

They say once you are struck by lightning once, your chances of being struck by lightning again actually increase.

I believe it.


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## Brian (Apr 10, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> Also, at lunch time, we could never agree on what kind of pizza to order. It was a freaking nightmare.


That right there is the problem. If you are in Louisiana you need to be eating craw fish and gumbo for lunch.

Brian Phillips


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## Harry (Aug 4, 2008)

PatsPainting said:


> After reading that, I wonder if you really been out there in the real world.
> 
> Pat


Pats, I spent many years in and out of the field...


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

Brian said:


> That right there is the problem. If you are in Louisiana you need to be eating craw fish and gumbo for lunch.


The nice thing about craw fish pizza from the gulf is that I hear the surfactant in the craw fish adds a nice zing to the pizza. And it really helps disperse the grease!

:thumbsup:

Maybe when the painters are working down there, they can extract surfactant from the sea creatures, and make enough paint with it so we can go back to painting houses.


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## In Demand (Mar 24, 2008)

Workaholic said:


> I don't know I just goggled it and on the first three pages it is mostly RC, CT and PT posts.
> 
> 
> I agree with you though. On the other hand it still could turn off a customer you may have gotten. At the same time though you will never know you lost them.


What search term did you use ? If you type in my website address then I see what you mean, but I always figured people would be more likely to search "modern style painting fort wayne" or something along those lines. Either way I aint too worried about it, Fort Wayne is a bit behind on the times, I think most of my web traffic is from people who have gotten my card from someone. I tried a PPC when I first got the website, it generated nothing.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

ModernStyle said:


> What search term did you use ? If you type in my website address then I see what you mean, but I always figured people would be more likely to search "modern style painting fort wayne" or something along those lines. Either way I aint too worried about it, Fort Wayne is a bit behind on the times, I think most of my web traffic is from people who have gotten my card from someone. I tried a PPC when I first got the website, it generated nothing.


Yeah I used your website name ModernStylePaint.com
ModernStylePaint
They both get a lot of forum posts. If I type it with the spaces then not so much.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

bikerboy said:


> Maybe 4 weeks worth is a more accurate statement. Plus several more jobs in the works, just don't count them until the ink is dry.


Would you rather have a months worth of work or 4 weeks?


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## TJ Paint (Jun 18, 2009)

sounds like a tricky question. Are we talking_ business_ days?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

TJ Paint said:


> sounds like a tricky question. Are we talking_ business_ days?


Yes.


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## Dave Mac (May 4, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> Would you rather have a months worth of work or 4 weeks?


 
depends are we talking repaint or nc, I wouldnt want a weeks worth of nc lol


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Dave Mac said:


> depends are we talking repaint or nc, I wouldnt want a weeks worth of nc lol


Doesn't matter. Any kind of jobs you want, as many as you want, for any duration you want. 

4 solid weeks in a row or spread all over the calendar?


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

hammerheart14 said:


> I can sell a top line product from P&L, save you money, and guarentee it will perform as good as any BM top line product.



I can spray paint a turd and tell you its a gold nugget too.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

That's not even funny nc


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

hammerheart14 said:


> My second best exterior line, p&l gold , runs $27.15 a gallon in the velvet sheen for the average licensed contractor, and the top guys, who spend around three grand or more a month, they get it at $25.56 a gallon. What's BM second bets line and their prices? Then the top exterior is the accolade eggshell, that runs $39.90 a gallon, and for the big boys (at our store) $37.56 a gallon. What does the Aura sell for? Anyways, for HO'S yeah, they pretty much don't get a price break, unless they're buying a larger amount (I'll give 10% off if they're planning on buying 10 gallons of paint or more.) We make our money off of the HO's, but it take more work to school them and explain how to paint, what goes on first, what they need to do for prep, ect, ect.


Dunno where to start on this one......p&l gold is sw200 dude. Selling it to contractors at that price is a complete ripoff, guys around here get super paint for less....much less. Super spec would be a slight upgrade from "gold" at 22/gal. Accolade is nowhere near Aura by comparison, learn to read a data sheet before diarrhea of the keyboard gets the best of ya. 

Not trying to be a d-bag, just stop shouting prices everywhere, you wont sell any paint here, and your prices are way outa the ballpark.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Yeah,but data sheets even though they may be the same, may not be the same quality. How do you really know they are the same product? they may be owned by the same company but still not be the same.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

From what I have seen most paint store owners don't really know much more than the painters on these things. I know they don't know how to use the products.lol


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

johnpaint said:


> That's not even funny nc


Please don't make me have to post a pic.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Most paint store owners get there info from seasoned painters anyway.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

I have seen the specs that say the same specs about diff paints. It's the quality of the materials that matter right?


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

johnpaint said:


> From what I have seen most paint store owners don't really know much more than the painters on these things. I know they don't know how to use the products.lol


Please......I can hack it up with the best of em. Im working on my cedar porch in a few days, ill post some pics and patiently await the ridicule.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Like when you say 100% acrylic. Which acrylic?


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

johnpaint said:


> Yeah,but data sheets even though they may be the same, may not be the same quality. How do you really know they are the same product? they may be owned by the same company but still not be the same.


Lets think about this for a minute. When a huge batch of product is mixed, and cans are going down the assembly line, isn't it easier just to switch labels as they're being wrapped? Or is it easier and more cost effective to make a new batch of product for a different "corporate owned" brand? 

OK we made 5k gallon batch of 200 egg....4k are being wrapped sw....1k as p&l gold. Doesn't that make financial sense? Or, OK boys, clean this vat out so we can whip up a small batch of the other paints we make......not likely.

Hell, when I carried Martin senour the boxes were marked SW, and sometimes Mis labeled as SW products.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

SW's Classic 99/promar 400 is a great example.


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

NCPaint1 said:


> I can spray paint a turd and tell you its a gold nugget too.


you really got a problem with me don't you?


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

NCPaint1 said:


> Dunno where to start on this one......p&l gold is sw200 dude. Selling it to contractors at that price is a complete ripoff, guys around here get super paint for less....much less. Super spec would be a slight upgrade from "gold" at 22/gal. Accolade is nowhere near Aura by comparison, learn to read a data sheet before diarrhea of the keyboard gets the best of ya.
> 
> Not trying to be a d-bag, just stop shouting prices everywhere, you wont sell any paint here, and your prices are way outa the ballpark.


I was bored and just creating conversation, what's your beef with me man!!! We're a small, independent paint store in a small town. We don't get the prices that other, larger stores get. Then we live on top of a huge mountain, 8,000 feet up. Shipping is more expensive, than in most places. Also, we don't have any box stores anywhere near us, and our only competition sells Fuller O'Brian weather king II for 8 dollars more a gallon, so we can keep it at that price and offer a same quality product and still save them money. Then there's colorant costs. I don't feel we're ripping off ANYBODY. A lot of other places use net prices, we do discounts. If you buy a lot of material from us, the prices keeps on getting better. I can read data sheets just fine, PROVE to me that P&L gold is super spec!!!!! 

Btw, I used Accolade last week, alongside Aura on a job with my father. We couldn't tell the difference between the two paints. Both were high quality products, Accolade is in the same ballpark as Aura. Sorry to pop your cherry.


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

johnpaint said:


> From what I have seen most paint store owners don't really know much more than the painters on these things. I know they don't know how to use the products.lol


Some where painters once, like me. I believe every paint store employee should at least have a few years of on the job experience. That's my competition's number one fault. Everytime I get a new product in, I make it a point to use it on my house or a friend's house at some point in the near future. But you're right, a lot of paint store employees can't paint for the life of 'em, and can't tell the difference between a solid stain and a paint. But I love that!!! That's why we do so well, we get the people who are tired of being told bad information and want it done right, and are ready to pay a little more.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

hammerheart14 said:


> I can read data sheets just fine, PROVE to me that P&L gold is super spec!!!!!
> 
> :no: * I said P&L GOLD is Pro Mar 200, which is also Martin Senour Pro Line Supreme......all three are the same product. Ask your rep*
> 
> ...


:yes:


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)

I'm start'n to wonder bout the Hammerheart. His posts seem a bit unknowingly.


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

ewingpainting.net said:


> I'm start'n to wonder bout the Hammerheart. His posts seem a bit unknowingly.


what posts are you referring to? sorry, but i do work in a paint store and on the field. i'm not some punk kid who just makes his mind up on these things. if my rep says that the two products are different (Gold vs* Pro Mar 200)* , I'm going to take his advice. he's a good guy, and he wouldn't lie to me. i've known him too long. 2. the aura and accolade didn't seem different to me, or an experienced pro painter. both products needed some xim extender to brush on, cause they were both a little sticky. so you're saying because i have different opinions than someone else, you say I am "unknowing?" I find that a little unfair.


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## PatsPainting (Mar 4, 2010)

I think you need to quite worrying about what people here think and just do your thing and have fun.. 

Pat


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

NCPaint1 said:


> :yes:


OK, I GET IT!!! No one wants anything to do with prices on here!!! I thought it would be interesting conversation, I didn't know I would be ridicouled or flamed. YOU KNOW WHAT? If I met any of you at a paint show, I bet 1.) I would get more respect from you guys face to face and 2. I bet you guys wouldn't say stuff to my face like " I think you're paint experience is a bit unknowingly" or "THE ACCOLADE AND AURA ARE TWO VERY DIFFERENT PAINTS!!!" I bet I would leave the show thinking, "jeez, these were some nice guys. they didn't even say much!!!"


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

The air must be very thin up there above the inversion layer.


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

hammerheart14 said:


> OK, I GET IT!!! No one wants anything to do with prices on here!!! I thought it would be interesting conversation, I didn't know I would be ridicouled or flamed. YOU KNOW WHAT? If I met any of you at a paint show, I bet 1.) I would get more respect from you guys face to face and 2. I bet you guys wouldn't say stuff to my face like " I think you're paint experience is a bit unknowingly" or "THE ACCOLADE AND AURA ARE TWO VERY DIFFERENT PAINTS!!!" I bet I would leave the show thinking, "jeez, these were some nice guys. they didn't even say much!!!"


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

hammerheart14 said:


> OK, I GET IT!!! No one wants anything to do with prices on here!!! I thought it would be interesting conversation, I didn't know I would be ridicouled or flamed. YOU KNOW WHAT? If I met any of you at a paint show, I bet 1.) I would get more respect from you guys face to face and 2. I bet you guys wouldn't say stuff to my face like " I think you're paint experience is a bit unknowingly" or "THE ACCOLADE AND AURA ARE TWO VERY DIFFERENT PAINTS!!!" I bet I would leave the show thinking, "jeez, these were some nice guys. they didn't even say much!!!"


 
YEAH!!!!!!!!!! 

:lol:


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

And yes, Ham, I would say that to your face. Primarily because in 10th grade I was a golden gloves champ. Then, as a adult I have studied tai chi extensively which is based on the form of Kung Fu. I could give you cauliflower ears before you could even get half of the blustery hot air out of your over confident mind.

But I wouldn't because I am a nice guy. So yes, you would leave the show thinking "what a nice guy" having no idea that in fact I could tear you a butt that could be used as a train tunnel. 

Now that we have that straightened out, I agree that your product sensibilities seem to be a bit skewed but that's ok. We all have our beliefs based on our experience, some have better experience than others.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

Jared cant answer rightnow......he is stomping his feat and holding his breath until someone "thanks" him for his knowledge.


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

vermontpainter said:


> And yes, Ham, I would say that to your face. Primarily because in 10th grade I was a golden gloves champ. Then, as a adult I have studied tai chi extensively which is based on the form of Kung Fu. I could give you cauliflower ears before you could even get half of the blustery hot air out of your over confident mind.
> 
> But I wouldn't because I am a nice guy. So yes, you would leave the show thinking "what a nice guy" having no idea that in fact I could tear you a butt that could be used as a train tunnel.
> 
> Now that we have that straightened out, I agree that your product sensibilities seem to be a bit skewed but that's ok. We all have our beliefs based on our experience, some have better experience than others.


then you'd pick the wrong guy. a second degree black belt in gojukenbo, and a five year mvp wrestler in high school, i'd give you a run for your money. and because I say accolade is as good as aura and you guys laugh at me? go **** yourselves!!!!!!!!!!


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

NEPS.US said:


> Jared cant answer rightnow......he is stomping his feat and holding his breath until someone "thanks" him for his knowledge.


wrong.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

I bet he has headphones on right now with rage against the machine cranked.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

hammerheart14 said:


> then you'd pick the wrong guy. a second degree black belt in gojukenbo, and a five year mvp wrestler in high school, i'd give you a run for your money. and because I say accolade is as good as aura and you guys laugh at me? go **** yourselves!!!!!!!!!!


At least you finished in five. :thumbsup:


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Ah yes grasshopper. If you were truly a student you would know that the soft forms always win.


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

vermontpainter said:


> I bet he has headphones on right now with rage against the machine cranked.



and p.s. RATM sucks. But since you mentioned that, i take it you're in your early thirties?


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

NEPS.US said:


> At least you finished in five. :thumbsup:


i started wrestling in eighth grade, sorry for the confusion.


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

vermontpainter said:


> Ah yes grasshopper. If you were truly a student you would know that the soft forms always win.


not always, not at all. my other style goju-ryu, is hard and soft. i find the more simple but powerful styles work best in real life situations.


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

hammerheart14 said:


> then you'd pick the wrong guy. a second degree black belt in gojukenbo, and a five year mvp wrestler in high school, i'd give you a run for your money. and because I say accolade is as good as aura and you guys laugh at me? go **** yourselves!!!!!!!!!!


BUDDY!!!

Settle down a little eh? 

Most of us are here to chill and do some shop talk, and unwind after a hard day of driving around. 

No one is here to get you or laugh at you or whatever. 

Have a few cold ones and chill the f out.


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

NEPS.US said:


> And look where all those MVP's got you - and 9-5 at the paint desk mixing colors for us losers. Congrat's!



hey, first of all I am very proud of what i do. i give my absolute BEST for people when they need quality matches and paint advice. For the last fourteen years, I'm proud to say that about 25 to 40% of everything painted up here, is either matched or mixed by me. That's something to be proud of. Number two, the greatest man I know is a painter, so I would never call most painters, losers. I have met some great men that were painters.


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> The clicking sound was ham pulling the pin on the ban grenade strapped to his chest. I so hope it doesn't detonate.


Me either, that would be the 4th ban this week, an all time high (or low) for PT.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Three quick and debilitating punches to the solar plexus and a couple of noogies. 
:jester:


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

vermontpainter said:


> In his mind, he owns the store. I like the dude. He's creative.


I know I don't OWN the store I work at, I MANAGE IT. My dream actually is to own my own paint store in Colorado some day.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

hammerheart14 said:


> I know I don't OWN the store I work at, I MANAGE IT. My dream actually is to own my own paint store in Colorado some day.


Good luck reaching your dreams Jared. :thumbsup:


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## RCP (Apr 18, 2007)

hammerheart14 said:


> hey, first of all I am very proud of what i do. i give my absolute BEST for people when they need quality matches and paint advice. For the last fourteen years, I'm proud to say that about 25 to 40% of everything painted up here, is either matched or mixed by me. That's something to be proud of. Number two, the greatest man I know is a painter, so I would never call most painters, losers. I have met some great men that were painters.


Sounds like you have a high level of ethics, that's great, but you are coming off a little strong, and as much as we all like a good debate, let's not turn it into an argument.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

hammerheart14 said:


> I know I don't OWN the store I work at, I MANAGE IT. My dream actually is to own my own paint store in Colorado some day.


Now we are getting somewhere. Keep the anger in check. Save the drama for yo mama and be a good pt member.


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

vermontpainter said:


> Now we are getting somewhere. Keep the anger in check. Save the drama for yo mama and be a good pt member. And btw, the rear door is for unloading only.


Hey, when some one says that a p&l product is the same product as a sherwin williams and made in the same factory, I find that to be serious!!! My sales rep who I have known for over five years now treats me good and is a good friend. He would never lie to me about that. So when someone on here spreads filth about that, I'm going to take offense, since It's a product that puts food on my table!!!!! And my sales rep says it's TWO different products.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

hammerheart14 said:


> Hey, when some one says that a p&l product is the same product as a sherwin williams and made in the same factory, I find that to be serious!!! My sales rep who I have known for over five years now treats me good and is a good friend. He would never lie to me about that. So when someone on here spreads filth about that, I'm going to take offense, since It's a product that puts food on my table!!!!!


He must be mis-informed because it is.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

hammerheart14 said:


> Hey, when some one says that a p&l product is the same product as a sherwin williams and made in the same factory, I find that to be serious!!! My sales rep who I have known for over five years now treats me good and is a good friend. He would never lie to me about that. So when someone on here spreads filth about that, I'm going to take offense, since It's a product that puts food on my table!!!!!


Who cares what someone on a Internet forum believes about what can of paint is what. Focus on your customers. There are guys here who believe Santa claus is going to stuff their stocking with January leads. Don't sweat it.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> There are guys here who believe Santa claus is going to stuff their stocking with January leads.


HA!!!!


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

NEPS.US said:


> He must be mis-informed because it is.


sherwin williams is the parent company. they own pratt and lambert, they do not interfere in the company in anyways, and is specifically stated that the two companies are just that.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

hammerheart14 said:


> sherwin williams is the parent company. they own pratt and lambert, they do not interfere in the company in anyways, and is specifically stated that the two companies are just that.


On paper perhaps.


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## hammerheart14 (May 29, 2010)

Well, I know now to NOT post prices here. But on a good note, I talked to the owner today and was able to lower the price of the Gold Ext. Velvet (again) by a dollar! It's more competitive now after the contractor price and discount.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> that was nothing compared to what mjk said to me a couple of years ago


Classic crazy night at PT.


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## ewingpainting.net (Jun 2, 2008)




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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

vermontpainter said:


> And yes, Ham, I would say that to your face. Primarily because in 10th grade I was a golden gloves champ. Then, as a adult I have studied tai chi extensively which is based on the form of Kung Fu. I could give you cauliflower ears before you could even get half of the blustery hot air out of your over confident mind.
> 
> But I wouldn't because I am a nice guy. So yes, you would leave the show thinking "what a nice guy" having no idea that in fact I could tear you a butt that could be used as a train tunnel.
> 
> Now that we have that straightened out, I agree that your product sensibilities seem to be a bit skewed but that's ok. We all have our beliefs based on our experience, some have better experience than others.


I could never do that, I would just "crop dust" him. For those of you who dont know what "crop dusting" is.....thats where you do a walk by silent fart. :thumbsup:


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

hammerheart14 said:


> I know I don't OWN the store I work at, I MANAGE IT. My dream actually is to own my own paint store in Colorado some day.


I'll sell you one in Michigan :jester:


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Rcon said:


> BUDDY!!!
> 
> Settle down a little eh?


Classic Canadian :thumbsup: "Buddy", and 
"eh" used in the same sentence. He missed the trifecta......just "A-BOAT" :jester:


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## PressurePros (May 6, 2007)

My family has been involved in retail for a long time so growing up and manning a counter I would hear "Cigarettes went up again? When they reach $2.00, I'm quitting." That $2 went to $5 and people were still buying them. If you want something, you pay for it. 

To the guy (wise?) saying he doesn't markup materials... that's just not understanding business. As a person that does apply a markup, I love price increases, it allows me to make more dollars and shift the blame to the manufacturers and suppliers. 

I learned long ago that eating price increase does nothing but create future bad will. Eventually you have to raise and at that point you are compensating for multiple raises and it appears you are being a ripoff. The minute prices increase, so does my material cost, even if I have a pallet in stock.


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

PressurePros said:


> I learned long ago that eating price increase does nothing but create future bad will. Eventually you have to raise and at that point you are compensating for multiple raises and it appears you are being a ripoff. The minute prices increase, so does my material cost, even if I have a pallet in stock.


Had a customer order 8/5's Log and Siding. ( kind of an  hat ) He started by taking 4/5's, the whole season!!. Then came back the next year to buy the rest....price went up, I raised the price. He said I shouldnt have raised the price since he "ordered" them last year. I said, "well you should have "paid" for them last year." :yes:


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## Harry (Aug 4, 2008)

PressurePros said:


> My family has been involved in retail for a long time so growing up and manning a counter I would hear "Cigarettes went up again? When they reach $2.00, I'm quitting." That $2 went to $5 and people were still buying them. If you want something, you pay for it.
> 
> To the guy (wise?) saying he doesn't markup materials... that's just not understanding business. As a person that does apply a markup, I love price increases, it allows me to make more dollars and shift the blame to the manufacturers and suppliers.
> 
> I learned long ago that eating price increase does nothing but create future bad will. Eventually you have to raise and at that point you are compensating for multiple raises and it appears you are being a ripoff. The minute prices increase, so does my material cost, even if I have a pallet in stock.


I don't quite think that you're analogy fits.
Cigarettes are addictive and people pay more because they're addictive. They're not a recreation type thing.

Imagine a heroin addict saying "Forget that! The price of heroin is crazy, I quit" 

I do get what you mean, just thought this was funny a bit...


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