# Hatbanding issue- cant figure out cause



## PPD (Mar 19, 2018)

Working a base coat for straie finish (12x15 room) n having HORRID picture framing. 

Its aurora satin, cutting w/ 3” picasso angle sash (still has clean cut tips). Normal method: 3-4” cut in w/ heavy feathering, overlap corner bridge to avoid double cutting, roll out & back tip the top edge.

l may be able to compensate with metallic layer & could add more extender to play it safe but am kinda stressing over starting it. Its gotta be single pass & theres no way to miss the sheen difference if it happens. 

Its started getting hot around these parts but the humidity & temp in the house is spot on so the weather shouldn’t be altering that much should it? 

Maybe I should check the mud humidity n see if it was completed too hastily n the under layers still have residual moisture? ...I’m at a loss, thoughts or advice?


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Are you saying you only did 1 cut? And 2 rolls? If it's only 1 room, I would just do another full coat.. The one thing with Aura, is you have to make sure to stir and box your paint well. And constantly mix your paint in your cut can and tray. It likes to separate especially in the darker tones..Good luck!


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

For what they want for Aura, that stuff should be able to put itself on a wall - flawlessly.


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## Lightningboy65 (Mar 12, 2018)

I prefer to call it top hatting....I'm always looking for a reason to evoke honest Abe's spirit. Especially so close to the Fourth!:euro:


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## Mr Smith (Mar 11, 2016)

RH said:


> For what they want for Aura, that stuff should be able to put itself on a wall - flawlessly.


I agree 100%..Their top paint is really Regal Select.

Aura is more difficult to apply than BEHR PREMIUM PLUS ULTRA and that's a coating most painters run away from.

No doubt that Behr PPU and Aura are tough as nails but ease of application is a huge factor when choosing a paint.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Mr Smith said:


> I agree 100%..Their top paint is really Regal Select.
> 
> Aura is more difficult to apply than BEHR PREMIUM PLUS ULTRA and that's a coating most painters run away from.
> 
> No doubt that Behr PPU and Aura are tough as nails but ease of application is a huge factor when choosing a paint.


I recently had occasion to use both, in the same house. Aura was nice to work with IMO, I suspect it is far more forgiving on textured surfaces than on smooth. Covered well but I still did two coats. However should I ever need to do a bright red or orange, I will strongly recommend it. 

The Regal was a decent paint but seemed a little thin with a tendency to run a bit. Nothing serious, just needed a skosh more care. But both were considerably more than Miller Acro or SW Duration, the products I usually recommend.


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## Mr Smith (Mar 11, 2016)

RH said:


> I recently had occasion to use both, in the same house. Aura was nice to work with IMO, I suspect it is far more forgiving on textured surfaces than on smooth. Covered well but I still did two coats. However should I ever need to do a bright red or orange, I will strongly recommend it.
> 
> The Regal was a decent paint but seemed a little thin with a tendency to run a bit. Nothing serious, just needed a skosh more care. But both were considerably more than Miller Acro or SW Duration, the products I usually recommend.


I use Regal mainly for brushing trim. I add some BM extender and it brushes like butter. I have used the Regal matte a few times without issue. I had zero runs. 

Next job is spec'd for regal eggshell. I'll let you know how that turns out. It's for a $2M house but the color is Cloud White
OC-130. I bid three coats just in case it doesn't cover over the dark colors.

The paint I love to use for prepping homes for sale is BM Ultra Spec 500. It's so easy to apply and is the best looking low sheen i've ever seen. If it was more durable that would be my go-to paint. The only downside is that it doesn't spread that far compared to most paints, so it's actual cost per square foot is similar to BEN.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

did you roll after the cut dried like you are supposed to?


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

I've noticed that colors with a lot of tint in them are more prone to hatband. Darker beiges usually. Like it was right on the edge of needing a deeper base or something.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

PPD said:


> Working a base coat for straie finish (12x15 room) n having HORRID picture framing.
> 
> Its aurora satin, cutting w/ 3” picasso angle sash (still has clean cut tips). Normal method: 3-4” cut in w/ heavy feathering, overlap corner bridge to avoid double cutting, roll out & back tip the top edge.
> 
> ...



What color is it tinted? Which roller cover?


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Mr Smith said:


> I agree 100%..Their top paint is really Regal Select.
> 
> Aura is more difficult to apply than BEHR PREMIUM PLUS ULTRA and that's a coating most painters run away from.
> 
> No doubt that Behr PPU and Aura are tough as nails but ease of application is a huge factor when choosing a paint.


Funny I was on a jobsite with a HO spraying and backroll 60 gallons aura matte with an older graco x7. Looks like any other professional job (better than many in fact) I have been on. one wall I was concerned with had large windows opening on to a 20x20 wall. Came out looking great. Even the ceiling came out good. No issues anywhere really.


Strange that HO's are putting this stuff on perfect but pro's are having issues.


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## PPD (Mar 19, 2018)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Are you saying you only did 1 cut? And 2 rolls? If it's only 1 room, I would just do another full coat.. The one thing with Aura, is you have to make sure to stir and box your paint well. And constantly mix your paint in your cut can and tray. It likes to separate especially in the darker tones..Good luck!




Oh sorry no- I cut 2x by the end...always do 2 coats unless its a distressed age finish on something like trim or cabinet/furniture. 

It’s a darker color...based on the replied I’m thinkin that is prolly a major factor. I’m goin back tomorrow when the property will be empty of carpenters to apply a thin 3rd to see if I can get rid of the hat banding before straie layer. I’ll be sure to over-mix & see if that solves it!


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## PPD (Mar 19, 2018)

RH said:


> For what they want for Aura, that stuff should be able to put itself on a wall - flawlessly.




Agreed!


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## PPD (Mar 19, 2018)

RH said:


> I recently had occasion to use both, in the same house. Aura was nice to work with IMO, I suspect it is far more forgiving on textured surfaces than on smooth. Covered well but I still did two coats. However should I ever need to do a bright red or orange, I will strongly recommend it.
> 
> The Regal was a decent paint but seemed a little thin with a tendency to run a bit. Nothing serious, just needed a skosh more care. But both were considerably more than Miller Acro or SW Duration, the products I usually recommend.




I’ve had running issues with the regal as well...first time using it was a cabinet job (HO bought paint) & I had to triple check the spec sheet to be sure I’d applied the right film thickness cuz the DT was wayyyy to long for my comfort & I had to clean up a few sags during application. 

Have avoided it ever since...but maybe a learning curve I just need to master?


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## PPD (Mar 19, 2018)

PACman said:


> did you roll after the cut dried like you are supposed to?




Of course ;p ...some mentioned the base can be an issue with the darker colors, any thoughts? 

I did notice the roll out was drying fast compared to past experience (w/ lighter colors). Thought maybe it was going on thinner than my cut in...may try switching to mohair & see if that eliminates the issue but I need to double check on scrap board first.


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## PPD (Mar 19, 2018)

Woodco said:


> I've noticed that colors with a lot of tint in them are more prone to hatband. Darker beiges usually. Like it was right on the edge of needing a deeper base or something.



Ok, this is the first time I’ve used the aurora in a dark color too...thank u for that info! I thought I was going mad...


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## celicaxx (May 29, 2015)

In my experience Aura and to a lesser extent Regal (way lesser extent) are more sensitive to surface porosity and environmental conditions than the lower end BM products (Ultra Spec and Ben...) and SW products. On a job I was on, going over early 2000s Regal matte, maybe with the drywall not being primed before the prior painter did it. We went on in a fairly hot/dry house in winter, we had flashing with Aura everywhere, same with the 508 ceiling paint. 508 Ceiling paint was especially bad and I ended up adding 8 or maybe even 12oz Floetrol per gallon to fix it.

I think because the paints are so fast drying, on some surfaces they just never can quite "set" right for lack of a better term. The idea at their first inception was not needing primer or needing to prime bare drywall, and maybe with their initial higher VOC versions this worked, but it's probably not working as well with the 0 VOC versions. 

So anyway, besides just not using it, I'd simply just prime all the walls with a decent-ish primer (not cheapo PVA) and just fully seal everything. Part of it could be as well, rolling into wet cuts instead of dry, but doing both in said house with the same flashing issues regardless of technique made me think it was just something like I said, just a weird sensitivity to surface porosity and environmental conditions. With the 508 with no primer adding that boatload of extender fixed the flashing enough to use without priming the surface. I thought it was just the paints were intrinsically bad and sucked, but using 508 with no extender on a current job it's rolling totally fine with no flashing. But, I can say I've rolled out an absolute ton of an SW ceiling paint and never had any flashing issues whatsoever in the slightest with it.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Funny I was on a jobsite with a HO spraying and backroll 60 gallons aura matte with an older graco x7. Looks like any other professional job (better than many in fact) I have been on. one wall I was concerned with had large windows opening on to a 20x20 wall. Came out looking great. Even the ceiling came out good. No issues anywhere really.
> 
> 
> Strange that HO's are putting this stuff on perfect but pro's are having issues.


That's because you can't buy it at a Sherwin Williams store! You should know that by now!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

celicaxx said:


> In my experience Aura and to a lesser extent Regal (way lesser extent) are more sensitive to surface porosity and environmental conditions than the lower end BM products (Ultra Spec and Ben...) and SW products. On a job I was on, going over early 2000s Regal matte, maybe with the drywall not being primed before the prior painter did it. We went on in a fairly hot/dry house in winter, we had flashing with Aura everywhere, same with the 508 ceiling paint. 508 Ceiling paint was especially bad and I ended up adding 8 or maybe even 12oz Floetrol per gallon to fix it.
> 
> I think because the paints are so fast drying, on some surfaces they just never can quite "set" right for lack of a better term. The idea at their first inception was not needing primer or needing to prime bare drywall, and maybe with their initial higher VOC versions this worked, but it's probably not working as well with the 0 VOC versions.
> 
> So anyway, besides just not using it, I'd simply just prime all the walls with a decent-ish primer (not cheapo PVA) and just fully seal everything. Part of it could be as well, rolling into wet cuts instead of dry, but doing both in said house with the same flashing issues regardless of technique made me think it was just something like I said, just a weird sensitivity to surface porosity and environmental conditions. With the 508 with no primer adding that boatload of extender fixed the flashing enough to use without priming the surface. I thought it was just the paints were intrinsically bad and sucked, but using 508 with no extender on a current job it's rolling totally fine with no flashing. But, I can say I've rolled out an absolute ton of an SW ceiling paint and never had any flashing issues whatsoever in the slightest with it.


See what i mean?


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

PPD said:


> Working a base coat for straie finish (12x15 room) n having HORRID picture framing.
> 
> Its aurora satin, cutting w/ 3” picasso angle sash (still has clean cut tips). Normal method: 3-4” cut in w/ heavy feathering, overlap corner bridge to avoid double cutting, roll out & back tip the top edge.
> 
> ...


Just an FYI, my experience in selling paint in San Diego tells me that unlike a lot of areas of the country there can be quite a difference in Temps and humidity depending where you are in the county. It can be 80Deg and 60% humidity in OB and 110deg and 5% in Poway for example. Any paint you use will act differently in this example. (OB-Ocean Beach for you....other people)
If you were in Dallas for example, there isn't going to be any difference in temp and humidity anywhere you are. This is something to keep in mind i guess. A lot of painters i knew there didn't quite understand this principle. Especially when they were using Conversion varnish. What a cluster.


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## PPD (Mar 19, 2018)

PACman said:


> Just an FYI, my experience in selling paint in San Diego tells me that unlike a lot of areas of the country there can be quite a difference in Temps and humidity depending where you are in the county. It can be 80Deg and 60% humidity in OB and 110deg and 5% in Poway for example. Any paint you use will act differently in this example. (OB-Ocean Beach for you....other people)
> 
> If you were in Dallas for example, there isn't going to be any difference in temp and humidity anywhere you are. This is something to keep in mind i guess. A lot of painters i knew there didn't quite understand this principle. Especially when they were using Conversion varnish. What a cluster.




You’re 100% spot on about that...a morning in Carlsbad is chilly, overcast, n high humidity while 15-20 min drive will put you in Escondido or Valley Center where it feels like death valley. 

Our summer got started unseasonably late this yr, it JUST started staying consistently warm in the last 3 weeks....

Makes for some really interesting re-coat times! Thankfully the different means even new construction has fully operational HVAC before any painting or finishing work begins so temp n humidity can be controlled as much as possible with windows open.

Another advantage is that after you’ve been doin this for awhile it becomes really easy to spot flashing or drag right away n troubleshoot...but then stuff like this happens n its SUPER frustrating when u can’t figure it out haha!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

PPD said:


> You’re 100% spot on about that...a morning in Carlsbad is chilly, overcast, n high humidity while 15-20 min drive will put you in Escondido or Valley Center where it feels like death valley.
> 
> Our summer got started unseasonably late this yr, it JUST started staying consistently warm in the last 3 weeks....
> 
> ...


i lived 2 blocks from the beach in Oceanside for 5 years. Not a great neighborhood back then but the weather was awesome. Never had to run the ac once that entire time and the wall heater came on maybe three or four times. The gun shots at 2-3 in the morning were awful fun though! Then i moved to hell on earth, more commonly known as Poway. 105-110 almost every day from May to October. Ran the ac constantly from late March until at least Thanksgiving. A lot nicer area but too damn hot to leave the apartment!


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## PPD (Mar 19, 2018)

PACman said:


> i lived 2 blocks from the beach in Oceanside for 5 years. Not a great neighborhood back then but the weather was awesome. Never had to run the ac once that entire time and the wall heater came on maybe three or four times. The gun shots at 2-3 in the morning were awful fun though! Then i moved to hell on earth, more commonly known as Poway. 105-110 almost every day from May to October. Ran the ac constantly from late March until at least Thanksgiving. A lot nicer area but too damn hot to leave the apartment!




Yep! My first apartment was beachside in Oside as well (its super nice now hah). Same thing...no AC & the wall heater was used for most of December. Now we have a house in Vista so we’re right btwn cbad n Escondido on the mountain side. The AC will get turned on here in about 2 weeks (usually its already been on for a month) n god help us if something goes wrong with it before October. 

I always say “welcome to palm dessert” in the summer cuz its SO unbearably hot. Our front yard is still mostly dessert cuz I can’t get anything to survive beside succulents n even they struggle in August....

I miss the coast livin soooo much n would happily trade space for location but the Mr feels very differently n is stubborn as all get out. So we stay for now (till I wear him down enough to cave in haha).


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## colorbuzz (Dec 6, 2018)

Woodco said:


> I've noticed that colors with a lot of tint in them are more prone to hatband. Darker beiges usually. Like it was right on the edge of needing a deeper base or something.


If the color selected is from Benjamin Moore Aura Color Stories, that is full spectrum color (color code starts wtih "CSP-") which uses 5 - 7 tints. You have to use Aura paint in that case.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

colorbuzz said:


> If the color selected is from Benjamin Moore Aura Color Stories, that is full spectrum color (color code starts wtih "CSP-") which uses 5 - 7 tints. You have to use Aura paint in that case.


Umm, OK?


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## PPD (Mar 19, 2018)

colorbuzz said:


> If the color selected is from Benjamin Moore Aura Color Stories, that is full spectrum color (color code starts wtih "CSP-") which uses 5 - 7 tints. You have to use Aura paint in that case.




Very true, it wasn’t from the color stories line though. 

I went full hog on the BM Color Stories options when it came out hoping to find the ideal full spectrum color palette for consults but could never get over the difficulty in getting aura to be consistent so I switched to citron .... then they went out of business. 

Donald Kaufman is only other option I’m familiar with now but no one wants to splurge on it so I don’t getta play much  

Still wanna try Ellen Kennon as I’ve heard AMAZING things about her whole spectrum! Have any experience with them?


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## Krittterkare (Jul 12, 2013)

The paint I love to use for prepping homes for sale is BM Ultra Spec 500. It's so easy to apply and is the best looking low sheen i've ever seen. If it was more durable that would be my go-to paint. The only downside is that it doesn't spread that far compared to most paints, so it's actual cost per square foot is similar to BEN.[/QUOTE]

I like Ultra Spec in sheens higher than eggshell, Ben all the way for lower sheens except for flat ceilings. The eggshell for walls I found flash more, harder touchups and washing scuffs have poor results.

I use floetrol when using Ultra Spec by default. Seems to make it closer to Ben.


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## store021 (Mar 27, 2017)

I've found Aura should to be applied with a 1/2 or 9/16 in roller (either prodooz or microplush from Wooster). It needs to be that thick for it not to dry as fast. Roll as close to the ceiling as you can and keep the roller wet, and do not let the nap of the rolled flatten.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

store021 said:


> I've found Aura should to be applied with a 1/2 or 9/16 in roller (either prodooz or microplush from Wooster). It needs to be that thick for it not to dry as fast. Roll as close to the ceiling as you can and keep the roller wet, and do not let the nap of the rolled flatten.



I have had issues with microfiber and Aura, mostly because microfiber puts on a thin coating compared to traditional naps. 3/8-1/2" proodooz ftp work best I have found. Since I started giving 1/2 to homeowners instead of 3/8 (for all paints) I stopped getting complaints of lapping marks. If you plan for thinner coats with microfiber then not an issue.


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## sayn3ver (Jan 9, 2010)

Really? I've had the opposite experience with aura and scuff x. Both wanted to run off the wall. With a 3/8 prodooz ftp it still likes to micro curtain (little rows across the wall where the stipple sags evenly). Aura is the most frustrating for me. It's thick but runs yet ropes and pulls and turns a different shade and sheen of you go back into it seemingly seconds after spreading it before coming back into it for the cut. I find the lower end paints easier to apply. I like.how fast aura dries and how it sands fresh (powders almost). This is for matte finishes. Never used it in anything else. I don't know how anyone spreads and rolls this like other paints and not have runs at every layoff roller lift and corner. No other paint has made me question myself more than aura. And at a mid $50 price point. No thanks. 



cocomonkeynuts said:


> store021 said:
> 
> 
> > I've found Aura should to be applied with a 1/2 or 9/16 in roller (either prodooz or microplush from Wooster). It needs to be that thick for it not to dry as fast. Roll as close to the ceiling as you can and keep the roller wet, and do not let the nap of the rolled flatten.
> ...


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

sayn3ver said:


> Really? I've had the opposite experience with aura and scuff x. Both wanted to run off the wall. With a 3/8 prodooz ftp it still likes to micro curtain (little rows across the wall where the stipple sags evenly). Aura is the most frustrating for me. It's thick but runs yet ropes and pulls and turns a different shade and sheen of you go back into it seemingly seconds after spreading it before coming back into it for the cut. I find the lower end paints easier to apply. I like.how fast aura dries and how it sands fresh (powders almost). This is for matte finishes. Never used it in anything else. I don't know how anyone spreads and rolls this like other paints and not have runs at every layoff roller lift and corner. No other paint has made me question myself more than aura. And at a mid $50 price point. No thanks.





Like I mention elsewhere I have seen plenty of HO's apply Aura perfectly. Really i saw one job earlier this year with 60 gallons Aura matte all new smooth primed drywall. Looked like any other professional job I have ever been to, better than many in fact.
Do your cuts, let them completely dry then roll. You don't need to, and really cant come back and lay out the paint once its on the wall. Just smooth up and down rolls all the way across.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

What was the final outcome btw @PPD?Did 3rd coat fix?


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## brooklynpainters (Sep 5, 2019)

not sure where i stand. lots of good points being made here.


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## Mr Smith (Mar 11, 2016)

PPD said:


> I’ve had running issues with the regal as well...first time using it was a cabinet job (HO bought paint) & I had to triple check the spec sheet to be sure I’d applied the right film thickness cuz the DT was wayyyy to long for my comfort & I had to clean up a few sags during application.
> 
> Have avoided it ever since...but maybe a learning curve I just need to master?


I just applied about 20 gallons of Regal Select by brush and roll and not a single run. It looks great too.

That being said, they had a full gallon of Aura eggshell stored in the basement from a recent job so I tried it and had no issues either. It's been about 10 years since I've used Aura and it looks like Benjamin Moore fixed the issues of it running in corners. I even added extender and a splash of water to it because it was a hot day. One thing about Aura is that it covers extremely well and maybe the best on the market for whites,reds and oranges.


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## PPD (Mar 19, 2018)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> I have had issues with microfiber and Aura, mostly because microfiber puts on a thin coating compared to traditional naps. 3/8-1/2" proodooz ftp work best I have found. Since I started giving 1/2 to homeowners instead of 3/8 (for all paints) I stopped getting complaints of lapping marks. If you plan for thinner coats with microfiber then not an issue.




1/2” on lvl 4-5 finish? No issue with stippling or orange peel? 

I’ve never gone over a 3/4 on anything smooth for fear of puddling or texture...will have to experiment on some scrap drywall n leftover Aura!


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## PPD (Mar 19, 2018)

finishesbykevyn said:


> What was the final outcome btw @PPD?Did 3rd coat fix?




Ya weirdly I didn’t have any issue with the 3rd pass...I did turn down the AC the night before & add some flo to it just to try n get ahead of any variable’s I could control. 

So not sure if the mud job wasn’t fully cured, high humidity & outdoor temp, or if it was technical error that was causing my issues but thankfully it rectified itself before I pulled all my hair out n kicked some cans around haha.


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

Aura appears to experience pigment floating and silking with certain colors and bases. 

I’ve been working with Aura Low luster exterior for the past 6 months on one project and I’m getting what appears to be a lot of pigment floating on horizontal surfaces which is evidenced by what appears to be the presence of Bénard cells. This is happening on horizontal window components on slower drying elevations which are not exposed to direct sunlight. The attached photo is highly magnified illustrating what I’m almost certain are Bénard cells, a paint defect due to pigment separation/dispersion deficiencies..and just a note, the photo is of a loose board which I slopped a couple of coats of the Aura on and was thinking of providing it to Benjamin Moore to determine what exactly is going on with the finish and is not representative of my finish work..

There also appears to be a clear sticky slightly brownish substance leaching out of the uncured film when subject to morning dew which I mistook for tannic acid runoff or tree sap, which it clearly isn’t, the apparent leaching occurring up in the protected eves as well, the substance not being present on window glass or other nearby surfaces. This is happening on every uncured painted surface, yet ceases within a couple of days after the application. I have no idea what it is and what’s causing it...never seen or experienced anything quite like it.

There are definite pigment dispersion/separation issues with the product. The pigment dispersion/separation issues are illustrated in the photo of the paint can taken a few hours after the paint was shaken at the Moore’s retailer, followed by dumping the material out into a deuce, leaving a little in the can, and thoroughly hand stirring everything in both the can and deuce, dumping everything back into the gallon. There was no visible unincorporated pigment on the lid, the underside of the rim, or on the sides of the can. The pigment separation pictured occurred within a few hours after hand mixing. There was no water or extender added to the paint. Pigment separation occurs within minutes after pouring off material into the pot I use to apply finish with as well, constantly having to stir it.

Another thing I noticed was pigment becoming prematurely unbound on direct sun exposures. The house I’m repainting was previously finished with the same product 5 years ago by 2 different paint companies and experienced severe chalking, the chalking being the “worst” I’ve ever seen without exaggeration. The chalking became very noticeable only 2 years after the house was completed by others. I didn’t check the dry film thicknesses so I can’t fairly say that the chalking is a result of the product itself. It may have been due to a thin or overly extended application, but by “both” paint companies?....

The first, last, and only time I’ve used Aura interior I experienced hat banding as well. I was applying a heavily pigmented 3 base gray color. After testing it out on a pantry ceiling and noticing the hat banding, I boxed up all the unopened paint cans purchased for the entire house and left them curbside with a free-paint sign (did that with C2 paint once), switching to Regal Classic eggshell, the hat banding being unacceptable. I’m wondering if the hat banding may be related to some of the almost certain pigment related issues I’m experiencing with the Aura exterior lineup..


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## juanvaldez (Sep 7, 2019)

I’ve had it happen 2x’s now, 2 yrs apart, with S-W paints. Interiors only. First with the ProMar 200 eggshell and now last month with Superpaint Velvet. 
Head scratching. Rep says it needs to go on 4 mills. Anyone ever try to brush and roll
4 mills without it running down the wall?? Both times the cut bucket had a brownish oily swirl in it, which seemed odd. Iv’e about had it....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Nestor Kelebay*



Alchemy Redux said:


> Aura appears to experience pigment floating and silking with certain colors and bases.
> 
> I’ve been working with Aura Low luster exterior for the past 6 months on one project and I’m getting what appears to be a lot of pigment floating on horizontal surfaces which is evidenced by what appears to be the presence of Bénard cells. This is happening on horizontal window components on slower drying elevations which are not exposed to direct sunlight. The attached photo is highly magnified illustrating what I’m almost certain are Bénard cells, a paint defect due to pigment separation/dispersion deficiencies..and just a note, the photo is of a loose board which I slopped a couple of coats of the Aura on and was thinking of providing it to Benjamin Moore to determine what exactly is going on with the finish and is not representative of my finish work..
> 
> ...


Alchemy, are you channeling Nestor Kelebay?

futtyos


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

juanvaldez said:


> I’ve had it happen 2x’s now, 2 yrs apart, with S-W paints. Interiors only. First with the ProMar 200 eggshell and now last month with Superpaint Velvet.
> Head scratching. Rep says it needs to go on 4 mills. Anyone ever try to brush and roll
> 4 mills without it running down the wall?? Both times the cut bucket had a brownish oily swirl in it, which seemed odd. Iv’e about had it....
> 
> ...


I've had SW reps throw every excuse in the book at me for hatbanding. Not sanding the wall properly. Not using the rightprimer (This was over previously painted walls) not clean enough, etc. I asked for a free gallon to fix it, and he wouldnt give it to me, so I paid for and told him that my designer will be reimbursing me for this, and I will recomend she NEVER use SW again for this reason, and that I would never buy paint there again. Hope its worth the $10 this gallon of paint cost you.


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

futtyos said:


> Alchemy, are you channeling Nestor Kelebay?
> 
> futtyos


Good one Futtyos

I had to google him, not knowing who he was..so no, I’m not a medium channeling the deceased’s spirit, but after reading some of his material, I’ll work on trying to keep future posts to ten words or less..


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## futtyos (Aug 11, 2013)

*Keep doing what you are doing!*



Alchemy Redux said:


> Good one Futtyos
> 
> I had to google him, not knowing who he was..so no, I’m not a medium channeling the deceased’s spirit, but after reading some of his material, I’ll work on trying to keep future posts to ten words or less..


Alchemy, my comment was not a complaint. It was a compliment!

futtyos


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## juanvaldez (Sep 7, 2019)

It could be a hard move to leave S-W. I love my rep and get great pricing! Lots of referrals as well. As Service from my local is good. A lot of other local S-W in area if needed too. 
First time my rep comped me another 5-10 gals to do it again. Also told me to send an invoice for the extra time it took to do. Never saw anything extra but he takes care of me, I think. Although again he gave me the same excuses as before and I just disagreed. To me it’s maybe a tint/ paint ingredient combo issue. Only happened on mid tone colors. 
Also, Around here Dunn Ed is terrible, KM and BM sold thru my local is good but not thrilled w the store, and other options are just not worth it. If I had to I’d go back to full time BM, but for now I’ll just use a bit of everything. Glad to know it is not just happening to me and S-W paints too! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## PPD (Mar 19, 2018)

Woodco said:


> I've had SW reps throw every excuse in the book at me for hatbanding. Not sanding the wall properly. Not using the rightprimer (This was over previously painted walls) not clean enough, etc. I asked for a free gallon to fix it, and he wouldnt give it to me, so I paid for and told him that my designer will be reimbursing me for this, and I will recomend she NEVER use SW again for this reason, and that I would never buy paint there again. Hope its worth the $10 this gallon of paint cost you.




He wouldn’t comp u a free gallon...seriously?! That’s ridiculous...


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## PPD (Mar 19, 2018)

Alchemy Redux said:


> Good one Futtyos
> 
> 
> 
> I had to google him, not knowing who he was..so no, I’m not a medium channeling the deceased’s spirit, but after reading some of his material, I’ll work on trying to keep future posts to ten words or less..




I like your explanations! I’m a knowledge geek tho....& always long winded as well so theres that


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## PPD (Mar 19, 2018)

juanvaldez said:


> It could be a hard move to leave S-W. I love my rep and get great pricing! Lots of referrals as well. As Service from my local is good. A lot of other local S-W in area if needed too.
> First time my rep comped me another 5-10 gals to do it again. Also told me to send an invoice for the extra time it took to do. Never saw anything extra but he takes care of me, I think. Although again he gave me the same excuses as before and I just disagreed. To me it’s maybe a tint/ paint ingredient combo issue. Only happened on mid tone colors.
> Also, Around here Dunn Ed is terrible, KM and BM sold thru my local is good but not thrilled w the store, and other options are just not worth it. If I had to I’d go back to full time BM, but for now I’ll just use a bit of everything. Glad to know it is not just happening to me and S-W paints too!
> 
> ...




My SW rep is pretty awesome too, I got lucky. I know some others who really have a hard time with theirs...my guy is really laid back & just seems like he doesn’t care, he’ll give me what I need to get the job done n work on the best price (at least thats what I choose to believe haha).

There’s only one DE store near my that I like...have had HORRID experiences at the others in my immediate area. Once they mixed up the wrong paint color & then spent an hour arguing with me about it when I came back pissed. Tried to say that’s what the phone order said...like I gave a sh*t! I had my notebook right in-front of me that I read the # off of for the order...just take ur damn 5 gallons n give me the right one! That was my last big order. I still have an account but rarely use it unless they have a good sale or I need Modern Masters stuff.


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