# SW ProClassic arylic/alkyd hybrid enamel



## JAPaint

I didn't find any threads or mention of this after searching, but was wondering if any of y'all have tried it yet or not. Maybe it's just on a limited roll-out, not sure. 
Anyway, I used a couple of gallons on a kitchen and dining room repaint recently and absolutely loved the stuff. After doing a section of cabinets and letting it dry down, which didn't take long at all, it laid down as good as any alkyd enamel I have used and better than some. Odor was very low and what little it had reminded me of banana laffy taff (the only down side I found, my ex loved the stuff). Cleans up easily with water, saving on thinner costs. Great stuff.
I was just wondering if anyone has tried it and what your thoughts about it are. I will definitely use this whenever possible from now on, especially repaints.


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## Mantis

late fall, the SW store here had talked to me about demoing a couple gallons of their "new waterborne alkyd" when it comes out. At the time it wasnt on the market yet and i kind of had forgotten about it since. Next time im in the store ill see if they have any available for me to try. From what i've heard, it sounded promising. 

I believe it comes in two flavors, Waterborne Alkyd Pro-Classic and Waterborne Alkyd Pro-mar. I'm more interested in trying the pro-classic.


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## johnpaint

I know I'm one of the few here that can't stand the stuff. Sure I can make it look good, I can make pretty much any paint look good, but try to paint a door with the stuff on windy/hot day and let me know what you think of it then.If you really want a nice product try Pratt&Lamberts water borne trim paint.


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## tntpainting

yep i love it too used it on a repaint last summer had to repaint a really old crown and chair rail base board deal it laid down like the good alkyd stuff does real smooth and you really need to work fast with or use a extender be cause it sets up real fast


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## aaron61

johnpaint said:


> I know I'm one of the few here that can't stand the stuff. Sure I can make it look good, I can make pretty much any paint look good, but try to paint a door with the stuff on windy/hot day and let me know what you think of it then.If you really want a nice product try Pratt&Lamberts water borne trim paint.


Isn't it an interior paint????


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## johnpaint

aaron61 said:


> Isn't it an interior paint????


You know I think you maybe right about that, but the last time i used it was on a condo where the back patio deck opened outward and the sun had just got around to back side. I had such a hell of a time I said that was it. I had tried to use it many times on the interior and always had to rush, that was it for me. that was in 07.


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## johnpaint

I did try the new Solo paint from SW a few days ago and think it is batter than PC, but I have to say I sprayed it and I would really have to brush it before I really knew forsure.


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## Mantis

tntpainting said:


> yep i love it too used it on a repaint last summer had to repaint a really old crown and chair rail base board deal it laid down like the good alkyd stuff does real smooth and you really need to work fast with or use a extender be cause it sets up real fast


last summer? Last time i talked to my rep, it wasnt on the market yet anywhere as of december. you sure we're talking about the same product, or is my rep misinformed?


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## johnpaint

Are there two pro classics?


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## Mantis

johnpaint said:


> Are there two pro classics?


there is pro-classic waterborne, alykd, and now waterborne-alkyd. So 3 i guess.


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## johnpaint

OK I see. OK, if it a waterborne-alkyd then it will still dry as a alkyd. that means it will yellow. I have used another product a few years ago from another maker and they stopped making it because it had high fail rate. It did brush really good though. went on really thin like.


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## painterdude

I seem to remember water clean up oils even in the mid 80's. Used some deck paints and it held up well. It was oil just wasn't petroleum based. I'd guess Soy or some other organic material. Do they still make products like this. I never used any product for trim etc. like that because back in that time it was all oil all of the time, due to the age of most of the houses(they had previously been oil painted)


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## pollardpainting

I believe they call the new pro classic... Pro Classic XP?? Haven't tried it but I will.


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## Mantis

Spoke with our local SW manager today. According to him, the waterborne alkyd hasnt been rolled out in all areas yet. They have released it to a couple test areas but that's it. Full retail sales of the stuff probably wont happen until April he guesses.

John, i questioned him about it yellowing as well. He pretty much debunked that right away. I dont remember his exact reasonings now, but it was something to do with the fact it's a true waterborne with only alkyd resins. The alkyd resins do not yellow, its the oil base that yellows. ...or something along that line.


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## johnpaint

Mantis said:


> Spoke with our local SW manager today. According to him, the waterborne alkyd hasnt been rolled out in all areas yet. They have released it to a couple test areas but that's it. Full retail sales of the stuff probably wont happen until April he guesses.
> 
> John, i questioned him about it yellowing as well. He pretty much debunked that right away. I dont remember his exact reasonings now, but it was something to do with the fact it's a true waterborne with only alkyd resins. The alkyd resins do not yellow, its the oil base that yellows. ...or something along that line.


Well thats good to hear that it not going to turn yellow.I would try it, if we ever get it. and thats good for interior and exterior right?


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## MAK-Deco

That what i was wonder too if its a new formula of the old stuff which sucked...


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## johnpaint

A few years a go I accidentally mixed a half gallon of oil and half gallon of exterior latex paint. I thought about throwing it away, then I remember I had the inside walls of a utility trailer I could paint it on. Would you believe that after it dried it looked fine and lasted for a few years.


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## johnpaint

Just to let you all know SW gave me a gallon today and I tried it on a few pieces of trim, laid down really good, dried fast like water base, and leveled out very nice. It is thinner than other water borne trim paint for sure. I think I'm going to like it. I will know more on Monday when I use it on a job.


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## JAPaint

pollardpainting said:


> I believe they call the new pro classic... Pro Classic XP?? Haven't tried it but I will.


Asking about this product is how I was led to this new one and they are not the same paints. I was looking for a low VOC alkyd enamel to use (PC XP) and my rep didn't know anything about it and thought I was asking about the new waterborne alkyd. After a little talking about it and him demoing me a couple of gallons, I figured it was worth a shot anyway.

Another I believe is limited about it now, other than area, is it only coming in a semi-gloss right now. One of the reps said they should or will be coming out with a gloss and high-gloss at some point, but all they had was the s/g.

A lot of my customers have been 50+ in age and spend a lot of time at home, so this paint and it's low, somewhat pleasant odor is great for me and them. Another thing I like about it is that it seems to hold its sheen better than a pure acrylic enamel, but it does seem to be just a little less than alkyd.

All-in-all I will use it when I can. Too many upsides with too few down to not take advantage of it. I would really like to see the gloss and high-gloss become available. It may be the gloss sheen could match the s/g of a pure alkyd.


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## johnpaint

It smells different kind of sweet in the way that your wondering whats it doing to you.


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## Metro M & L

johnpaint said:


> It smells different kind of sweet in the way that your wondering whats it doing to you.


Just like my mother.


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## johnpaint

Metro M & L said:


> Just like my mother.


M&L you like those lead jobs: Give me a call a I will give you a lead.


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## momule

Just for the record. Proclassic XP is a totally different product than the other 3 proclassic. Anything with XP in the name is made to get the job done in one less coat. The new water reducible alkyd enamel is brand new technology. It should start hitting stores very soon.


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## momule

johnpaint said:


> I know I'm one of the few here that can't stand the stuff. Sure I can make it look good, I can make pretty much any paint look good, but try to paint a door with the stuff on windy/hot day and let me know what you think of it then.If you really want a nice product try Pratt&Lamberts water borne trim paint.


I hope your not using Proclassic on an exterior door. Its an interior only product. 

If your finding that our proclassic latex drags a bit in high humidity / hot days. Try using some XIM latex extender in it and that should solve your problems. 

FYI. SW owns and makes Pratt Lambert.


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## slapiton

I demoed 2 gallons of this stuff and absolutely love the way it rolled and layed down after being brushed. I will be using it in the near future.


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## johnpaint

Well after using it for a day I have to say I will not be using it in the future. At first I thought it was going to be good, but after a little bit of use I notice it dries ways to fast.If you have a long piece, you really have to speed your painting up way too fast. It dries way faster than the regular pro classic. I did notice that if you can spray it, it works out very fine.


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## johnpaint

momule said:


> I hope your not using Proclassic on an exterior door. Its an interior only product.
> 
> If your finding that our proclassic latex drags a bit in high humidity / hot days. Try using some XIM latex extender in it and that should solve your problems.
> 
> FYI. SW owns and makes Pratt Lambert.


That was the interior side of a back door, that opened outward.I opened it to paint it and the sun was just coming around to that side of the building. Not fun.


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## Formulator

johnpaint said:


> OK I see. OK, if it a waterborne-alkyd then it will still dry as a alkyd. that means it will yellow. I have used another product a few years ago from another maker and they stopped making it because it had high fail rate. It did brush really good though. went on really thin like.


 
This is true depending on what resin they use and some formulating tricks to minimize how much yellowing will occur.

Alkyds yellow most in hot and dark conditions.


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## Formulator

Mantis said:


> Spoke with our local SW manager today. According to him, the waterborne alkyd hasnt been rolled out in all areas yet. They have released it to a couple test areas but that's it. Full retail sales of the stuff probably wont happen until April he guesses.
> 
> John, i questioned him about it yellowing as well. He pretty much debunked that right away. I dont remember his exact reasonings now, but it was something to do with the fact it's a true waterborne with only alkyd resins. The alkyd resins do not yellow, its the oil base that yellows. ...or something along that line.


 
:no: That's not true. :no:


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## Mantis

Formulator said:


> :no: That's not true. :no:


thanks for enlightening me. care to elaborate?


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## DeanV

I think Benjamin Moore Satin Impervo is an alkyd, and it yellows just fine. Waterborne clear finishes that are made resins that traditionally are in other solvents will still yellow as well.


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## Mantis

DeanV said:


> I think Benjamin Moore Satin Impervo is an alkyd, and it yellows just fine. Waterborne clear finishes that are made resins that traditionally are in other solvents will still yellow as well.


I see. I'll certainly have to look further into this then.


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## johnpaint

I would be surprised if this product last very long. Like I said, it dries so fast buy the time you get from one end of a 1x8 trim board to maybe three feet down the its drying. Don't dare touch it while its drying or you will get ungodly brush marks that do not smooth out at all.Also how are you going to thin it. I don't think you can add water to it.


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## WisePainter

I am getting a sample when the next shipment to my home SW arrives next Thurs. I will of course be adding my 2 cents then.


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## SWGuy

johnpaint said:


> I would be surprised if this product last very long. Like I said, it dries so fast buy the time you get from one end of a 1x8 trim board to maybe three feet down the its drying. Don't dare touch it while its drying or you will get ungodly brush marks that do not smooth out at all.Also how are you going to thin it. I don't think you can add water to it.


 
You thin it with water.


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## WisePainter

SWGuy said:


> You thin it with water.



I am totally against anything WB that I have to add water in order to get it the way I want it.
Alkyds for sure, but water base?
no.
I used ASE in WB yesterday for the first time, I laid down at _least_ 6 mils. wet (and yes I had to babysit it for sags or drips) just to get it to lay down properly as it dried. It came out perfect on a small vanity with drawers and cupboard doors.
I may just stick with Sologloss as it is thinned enough out of the bucket, and is easy to work with for anyone with top notch brush skills.


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## johnpaint

WisePainter said:


> I am totally against anything WB that I have to add water in order to get it the way I want it.
> Alkyds for sure, but water base?
> no.
> I used ASE in WB yesterday for the first time, I laid down at _least_ 6 mils. wet (and yes I had to babysit it for sags or drips) just to get it to lay down properly as it dried. It came out perfect on a small vanity with drawers and cupboard doors.
> I may just stick with Sologloss as it is thinned enough out of the bucket, and is easy to work with for anyone with top notch brush skills.


Solo is pretty good, I think it is better than reg pro classic, better price too. My favorite is still Pratt-Lambert trim paint, but harder to find.


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## Formulator

Mantis said:


> thanks for enlightening me. care to elaborate?


An alkyd is an alkyd is an alkyd. Even if it's in water, it will still yellow. WB alkyds are my specialty and I have yet to see one that absolutely doesn't yellow. Even if it's acrylic modified, that won't prevent yellowing.

Paint something out and put it in a hot dark place for a few weeks and see for yourself.


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## johnpaint

Formulator said:


> An alkyd is an alkyd is an alkyd. Even if it's in water, it will still yellow. WB alkyds are my specialty and I have yet to see one that absolutely doesn't yellow. Even if it's acrylic modified, that won't prevent yellowing.
> 
> Paint something out and put it in a hot dark place for a few weeks and see for yourself.


Maybe you can tell us why fast dry oils tend to yellow worse than slow oils.


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## Mantis

Formulator said:


> An alkyd is an alkyd is an alkyd. Even if it's in water, it will still yellow. WB alkyds are my specialty and I have yet to see one that absolutely doesn't yellow. Even if it's acrylic modified, that won't prevent yellowing.
> 
> Paint something out and put it in a hot dark place for a few weeks and see for yourself.


I think if you put something in a hot dark place for a few weeks it will yellow regardless of whether or not it was painted with oil or latex. The current waterborne Pro-Classic that everyone has used, and shares various opinions on, also contains alkyds and I have not had a case of that yellowing. 

Im not going to say this product will not yellow ever, as I know very little about it. I've never used a true waterborne alkyd so I'm just relaying what they've told me about it. However, SW called me today and told me they have a couple gallons of the Pr-Mar Waterborne Alkyd for me to demo. All I can do is try it and let you know


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## michfan

johnpaint said:


> I would be surprised if this product last very long. Like I said, it dries so fast buy the time you get from one end of a 1x8 trim board to maybe three feet down the its drying. Don't dare touch it while its drying or you will get ungodly brush marks that do not smooth out at all.Also how are you going to thin it. I don't think you can add water to it.


I actually just demoed (is that a word?) a gallon of this new Pro-Classic Acrylic Alkyd and loved the stuff. It does dry a little fast, but it wasn't that bad. I haven't painted full doors with it yet though, so that might be tricky. On the casings and base, it was awesome. Loved it.


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## painterdude

JAPaint said:


> Asking about this product is how I was led to this new one and they are not the same paints. I was looking for a low VOC alkyd enamel to use (PC XP) and my rep didn't know anything about it and thought I was asking about the new waterborne alkyd. After a little talking about it and him demoing me a couple of gallons, I figured it was worth a shot anyway.
> 
> Another I believe is limited about it now, other than area, is it only coming in a semi-gloss right now. One of the reps said they should or will be coming out with a gloss and high-gloss at some point, but all they had was the s/g.
> 
> A lot of my customers have been 50+ in age and spend a lot of time at home, so this paint and it's low, somewhat pleasant odor is great for me and them. Another thing I like about it is that it seems to hold its sheen better than a pure acrylic enamel, but it does seem to be just a little less than alkyd.
> 
> All-in-all I will use it when I can. Too many upsides with too few down to not take advantage of it. I would really like to see the gloss and high-gloss become available. It may be the gloss sheen could match the s/g of a pure alkyd.


a lot of my customers are over 50 !! Yep, I don't see how they get around at all at that age. I'm 60 and the only reason I spend a lot of time at home is cause there aint much work in my part of South Carolina. Oh, there goes another of my old person hissy fits. Time to lay down.


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## johnpaint

michfan said:


> I actually just demoed (is that a word?) a gallon of this new Pro-Classic Acrylic Alkyd and loved the stuff. It does dry a little fast, but it wasn't that bad. I haven't painted full doors with it yet though, so that might be tricky. On the casings and base, it was awesome. Loved it.


As long as you have the perfect day for it you should have no problem. It sprays 
very nice. I won't buy it though.If I need a paint that dries fast I will use a dtm over this product.I was also disappointed that it didn't dry as hard as I wanted it to.


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## David Scott

*Pro Classic Alkyd / Water*

I used the paint twice. It was one of the easiest interior trim paints I've ever used. It applied like butter. It covered very well, too; I was surprised. One of the things I liked about it the most was that even while it was drying (and it did dry fast) and I happened to brush over it with a fresh paint stroke, the new paint layed over the drying paint easily without causing the drying paint to clump. The only negative thing about the paint was that it was a little runny. But I'll just have to get used to it, because I'm definately sold on it.

I do have a question for anyone. I will be distressing a cabinet. I applied a coat of this paint on the cabinet and want to wait an appropriate amount of days before a use a orbital sander on it. I want to be sure that the paint has cured completely as to minimize the chance of making a gooey mess from melting the paint. What is the cure time for using this type of sanding method?


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## CliffK

David Scott said:


> I do have a question for anyone. I will be distressing a cabinet. I applied a coat of this paint on the cabinet and want to wait an appropriate amount of days before a use a orbital sander on it. I want to be sure that the paint has cured completely as to minimize the chance of making a gooey mess from melting the paint. What is the cure time for using this type of sanding method?


 Sample,Sample,Sample- I always do the same process on a piece of scrap and leave it in the same environment. Even put it on a little heavier on the scrap. Especially when I am working with something that I am not completely familiar with-which is almost everything anymore! Seems like everytime I open a can of paint(even stuff I've used for years) it has been changed in some way.


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## jack pauhl

Reviewing this product. Has anyone sprayed it? Or anyone care to add more experience with it?


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## ltd

liked it a lot brushed it over old school trim and doors. flowed, leveled,dried hard .thinned with a little walter just a very little .i did a little experiment and brushed it over a cabinet that was stained and had some kind of satin finish over it and it stuck as good as a bonding primer .dont recommend this but just wanted to see.also brush needed freshened up more as heal clumped up fast. did hit crown moulding with pro shot and it was great laid down nice leveld no orange peel.i did like it a lot but will only use it on special jobs .for the most part my clients would not know the difference,care or want to pay for premo paint .hey i can brush super paint or even pro 200 and except for pro painters not many would no the difference. that's my story and im sticking to it


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## jack pauhl

guess not many using it.


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## vermontpainter

jack pauhl said:


> guess not many using it.


We have a gallon of it to check out. Havent cracked it open yet.


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## jack pauhl

vermontpainter said:


> We have a gallon of it to check out. Havent cracked it open yet.


a gallon?! what are you going to paint with a gallon! The pumps only getting warmed up.


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## straight_lines

Haven't yet but was gonna try and upsell my next three scheduled NC's to either this or the BM advance. 

Has to be worth another ¢10 sq/ft.


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## Paradigmzz

hasnt the waterborne alkyd seen enough threads? 

Heres another scenario to keep in mind. I have used it for last 7-8 months on and off and ran smak dab into a little issue with it. I did a bathroom remodel early summer in a house and used it on all the trim. I got called back and ended up repainting the whole home, walls, ceiling and trim and I guess it isnt huge, but I used proclassic latex for the rest of the home. Here is the minor issue I have, as I was labeling paint quarts for the homeowner at the end of the job, I realized, crap, do I have to go and explain to the homeowner that they now have an oil AND a latex version of their trim? God forbid they try to touch up the oil with the latex. 


Ya, it is a small concern, but remember, it is designed to replace oil. *But its still oil*. In some areas of the country oil is pretty dominant on repaints. Where I am, it is not -and the novelty of the hybrid is wearing off. ProClassic waterborne is hard as nails as it is once it cures. If I need to cover over previous oil, thats one thing, otherwise.... acrylic is good enough for me. 

Just my 2 cents.


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## jack pauhl

straight_lines said:


> Haven't yet but was gonna try and upsell my next three scheduled NC's to either this or the BM advance.
> 
> Has to be worth another ¢10 sq/ft.


It looked glossy dry like a true semi-gloss. Thats pretty much all I have so far. I have no idea what the asking price is.


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## jack pauhl

Paradigmzz said:


> hasnt the waterborne alkyd seen enough threads?
> 
> Heres another scenario to keep in mind. I have used it for last 7-8 months on and off and ran smak dab into a little issue with it. I did a bathroom remodel early summer in a house and used it on all the trim. I got called back and ended up repainting the whole home, walls, ceiling and trim and I guess it isnt huge, but I used proclassic latex for the rest of the home. Here is the minor issue I have, as I was labeling paint quarts for the homeowner at the end of the job, I realized, crap, do I have to go and explain to the homeowner that they now have an oil AND a latex version of their trim? God forbid they try to touch up the oil with the latex.
> 
> 
> Ya, it is a small concern, but remember, it is designed to replace oil. *But its still oil*. In some areas of the country oil is pretty dominant on repaints. Where I am, it is not -and the novelty of the hybrid is wearing off. ProClassic waterborne is hard as nails as it is once it cures. If I need to cover over previous oil, thats one thing, otherwise.... acrylic is good enough for me.
> 
> Just my 2 cents.


I searched for it and found this one. The others were for BM.


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## Paradigmzz

im pretty sure there are multiple threads dealing with waterborne alkyds. I have made quite a few remarks as to my experiences with it on other threads of this subject, good luck with it. I do like the product btw, but just like Behr is for you, it is not nearly efficient enough for me to make it a "daily driver" in my paint line-up. There are some delayed sag effects on vertical surfaces if you lay the mills a little thick. As long as you are running FFT and watch your overlaps, its not bad though. Clean up is still a PITA, count on using both water and thinner. Water to clean majority off/ out, and thinner to get it fully clean.


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## Paradigmzz

jack pauhl said:


> I searched for it and found this one. The others were for BM.


search "waterborne alkyd"...


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## jack pauhl

Paradigmzz said:


> im pretty sure there are multiple threads dealing with waterborne alkyds. I have made quite a few remarks as to my experiences with it on other threads of this subject, good luck with it. I do like the product btw, but just like Behr is for you, it is not nearly efficient enough for me to make it a "daily driver" in my paint line-up. There are some delayed sag effects on vertical surfaces if you lay the mills a little thick. As long as you are running FFT and watch your overlaps, its not bad though. Clean up is still a PITA, count on using both water and thinner. Water to clean majority off/ out, and thinner to get it fully clean.


Thanks I found more info in other threads. Quite the variation of experiences. No surprise there. Did you reduce it at all and do you remember which size FFT? What was it like spraying over itself?


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## Wood511

Paradigmzz said:


> ProClassic waterborne is hard as nails as it is once it cures.


I'd heard that too. I painted a small section of trim with the stuff a few months back, let it cure for a month and then put it to the test. I took one of those black marking johnny sh1tkicker boots and tried to scuff it by hitting it with the toe...nothing. Then I put the boot on and kicked it, scraped it, strafed it....nothing. Finally I kicked the trim hard enough to dent the wood, still no marks though.

This is now my top choice for high traffic areas that get beat up.


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## Felan Painting

JAPaint said:


> I didn't find any threads or mention of this after searching, but was wondering if any of y'all have tried it yet or not. Maybe it's just on a limited roll-out, not sure.
> Anyway, I used a couple of gallons on a kitchen and dining room repaint recently and absolutely loved the stuff. After doing a section of cabinets and letting it dry down, which didn't take long at all, it laid down as good as any alkyd enamel I have used and better than some. Odor was very low and what little it had reminded me of banana laffy taff (the only down side I found, my ex loved the stuff). Cleans up easily with water, saving on thinner costs. Great stuff.
> I was just wondering if anyone has tried it and what your thoughts about it are. I will definitely use this whenever possible from now on, especially repaints.


Awesome stuff! we use on all interior trim or cabinet jobs . Does not yellow like oils, recoat time is same day ,perfect for production work such as trim packages and doors that need to be done yesterday!
Another product that is good that actualy out performs pro classic is ceramic waterbourne by graham paints. It's an interior and exterior product. Dries harder and faster . Either way both are an excellent choice !:thumbup:


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## DeanV

Yes! Another Graham CS fan!


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## DeanV

Although I would not use Graham ceramic satin on much exterior stuff. Too hard for good flexibility.


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## Macsimus

I have used this stuff quite a bit, the store I use had it on sale for $15 a gallon so I used it for months. It is a little difficult to work with. It dries quickly and gets sticky when you brush back into it and at the same time,(against logic), it has a tendency to run. It took a little time to get used to. But as others have said it dries very hard and looks fantastic. It sands like an oil, so if you do have a run you can fix it. I put it on the threshold to my basement and it has not budged! It is filthy from all the foot traffic but the coat is sound over a year later. As far as spraying it, it is pretty good too. Again you have to be careful on the overlap areas because it will run way more than a latex. Turning the heat up a little will help it set up quicker. I used a 412 if I recall correctly and had decent results. I didn't thin it either. One warning is this: if it looks like it is going to run or is starting to sag, _leave it alone_. Let it dry and check it again, this stuff does have an amazing ability to "level". The terrible looking sag might just suck right in and be barely noticeable when it dries. And if not, you just sand it when it is dry. If you touch it when it is wet, it will look worse. Also, you really have to be dilligent filling your nail holes and caulking because you can't lay it on like a latex. You have to put on several lighter coats, so your missed caulk and not totally filled nail holes really stand out with light colors. Overall I like this product. Hope this helps.


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## Paradigmzz

*Read this before you use*

Long term analysis: I am not appriciating this product as much as I thought.


I used this product over old oil quite a few times this last year. I went back to a home I did a remodel on this summer and we are remodeling another area of the home. I have 2 huge strikes against this product now.

1) it does not bond as well as I have thought. Over oil, correctly prepped, I managed to drag my finger nail through an area and reveal old paint 6-7 months later. WTF?

2)You cannot use Paso to degloss/ clean oil as (supposedly) it will leave a film and not let the WB Alkyd adhere either. I Started in a closet and the trim started to spider web (no idea of what the technical term is) like water over oil. 

My original complaint is that it skins up quickly yet allows any heavy areas below to sag. (Don't be heavy handed on a trigger, ie. overlap areas). 


New conclusion: Whats the point? If it is not a good product to use over old oil, why make a product that limits you to having to topcoat with either WB alkyd or straight oil?


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## Paint and Hammer

Paradigmzz said:


> Long term analysis: I am not appriciating this product as much as I thought.
> 
> 
> I used this product over old oil quite a few times this last year. I went back to a home I did a remodel on this summer and we are remodeling another area of the home. I have 2 huge strikes against this product now.
> 
> 1) it does not bond as well as I have thought. Over oil, correctly prepped, I managed to drag my finger nail through an area and reveal old paint 6-7 months later. WTF?
> 
> 2)You cannot use Paso to degloss/ clean oil as (supposedly) it will leave a film and not let the WB Alkyd adhere either. I Started in a closet and the trim started to spider web (no idea of what the technical term is) like water over oil.
> 
> My original complaint is that it skins up quickly yet allows any heavy areas below to sag. (Don't be heavy handed on a trigger, ie. overlap areas).
> 
> 
> New conclusion: Whats the point? If it is not a good product to use over old oil, why make a product that limits you to having to topcoat with either WB alkyd or straight oil?



"STOP...you had me at #1"

That's a deal killer right there.


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## straight_lines

Yup, if it won't adhere to oil without a primer coat it lost a lot of value.


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## Painter One

David Scott said:


> I used the paint twice. It was one of the easiest interior trim paints I've ever used. It applied like butter. It covered very well, too; I was surprised. One of the things I liked about it the most was that even while it was drying (and it did dry fast) and I happened to brush over it with a fresh paint stroke, the new paint layed over the drying paint easily without causing the drying paint to clump. The only negative thing about the paint was that it was a little runny. But I'll just have to get used to it, because I'm definately sold on it.
> 
> I do have a question for anyone. I will be distressing a cabinet. I applied a coat of this paint on the cabinet and want to wait an appropriate amount of days before a use a orbital sander on it. I want to be sure that the paint has cured completely as to minimize the chance of making a gooey mess from melting the paint. What is the cure time for using this type of sanding method?


You can distress right away with a razor blade while it is a little soft, then sand by hand...based on my experience....


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## more_prep

wet sand, fine sponge, before curing is fine


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## simplycovered

I am sure someone will argue but I found the advance product stuck to oil quite well. I know it isn't sherwins hybrid but the concept is the same. I was advised not to put it over oil too,,, but it is so tempting,, Does it stop sticking months down the road ? or is it just the type of oil that you went over. I used the advance numerous times over old oil finishes.


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## David's Painting

I just used it for the first time on some built in bookcases. I liked it. You don't want to fool around with it while it is drying. Keep your eye out for sags. I liked the sheen better compared to the latex version. I also built the bookcases.


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## more_prep

Macsimus said:


> I have used this stuff quite a bit, the store I use had it on sale for $15 a gallon so I used it for months. .


I'm in MA -- what store was that, if you don't mind saying?


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## Zoomer

David's Painting said:


> I just used it for the first time on some built in bookcases. I liked it. You don't want to fool around with it while it is drying. Keep your eye out for sags. I liked the sheen better compared to the latex version. I also built the bookcases.


They look awesome. I suggest Advance over pro classic. Have used both and always have a better result with Advance. Both can sag very quicky. 2-3 light coats is best. Pro classic has more grit and not nearly as smooth. The sheen is slightly less than Advance imo.


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## painterdude

*waterborne alkyd*

this is an old thread but thought I'd get some more additions. Have a house to do that is part oil and part latex. Not a big fan of using oils at my age(64) but would like to do the work. I've no experience with these kids of products but have used hundreds of gallons of oils back in the day. I've read some conflicting reviews of how it works over traditional oils etc. Any input is appreciated. PD


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## lmvp17

This product shouldn't be used directly over oil. Needs a bonding primer first. I wouldn't recommend it anyway. It looks good when you put it on, but like oil, it yellows as well.


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