# Helmsmans Spar Urethane question...



## PaintPerfect (Sep 19, 2013)

I have a project where the client has had an oak post made for his front porch, to match his front door. I used Spar Urethane on the door in 2003, three coats with sanding in between. It has had one more maintenance coat, which we did in 06 or 07...it has held up beautifully, but it has turned kind of orangy over time. He wants the post to match the door, and I am wondering if anyone here knows how long the Spar Urethane takes to start turning that orangish color...?


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

Depends on the environment. But it will turn"Golden" eventually. Why?


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## PaintPerfect (Sep 19, 2013)

That "eventually" is the unknown I'm trying to see if I can find an answer for - when I'm finished with the post it will get installed but it will not match the front door. My client was wondering how long he will have to wait before they start to look the same. Just curious to know if that golden/ orangey color will start to kick in after a few months or will it take years...? The door is under a roof and about 8 feet back from the front of it. The post will have more exposure as it will be on the front edge of the porch. The client is actually looking to see if he can have it installed in such a way so that he can turn it on occasion, to equalize the exposure to all four sides...


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

I find it's not good for my psyche trying to promise how and when nature will will take its course to those with OCD


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## Northwest_painter (Jan 27, 2012)

well lets see, if we take the speed of light devide by the circumfrence of the known universe. subtract the birthday year of big foot. Multiplied by the number of paint brushes used on a given saturday you should get your answer. In all reality it is any ones guess.


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

*** Be very careful. As far as I know Helmsman has recently changed their formula. ***

I know because I went to do a big beam with high gloss just recently (last week) and the material isn't yellow anymore. It had a light brown tint. 

I actually called Sherwin because I thought I bought a bad batch (got mine at lowe's because its cheaper for me there). And they confirmed that there is a brown tint to the oil based Helmsman, at least at their store. 

Long story short: Sprayed the high gloss, didn't give the wood any tint and dried glossy just like the 'old' helmsman did that had the yellow tint. So the product was fine, just another color.

My assumption is that they probably are trying to combat the yellowing effect and changed formulas, as everyone is now wanting a 'water white' or 'clear' finish vs. the yellowing of old. But that's just my assumption, no actual fact from Sherwin (aka minwax) on that one.


Just thought I'd let the OP know that it may not be as easy as just getting a can of the regular Helmsman and throwing it on. Maybe your store has the old stuff still or whatever and there's no problems.

As to the problem: The yellowing would have to be mixed into the stain. Is there anyway you could get a sample of it or take a piece of molding or something in for a stain match? That's what I would do, then you could clear it either water white or if you can find the 'old'/regular helmsman than spray it with that. 

That would be my advice. 

Good luck and let us know what you ended up doing.


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## Toolnut (Nov 23, 2012)

It used to be spar varnish now everything is spar polyurethane. The thing was with the spar varnish a little sanding and you could do a refresher coat. It is my understanding you can not do that with the poly. With it you need to remove it and do a new coat. Does anyone know for sure?


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Toolnut said:


> It used to be spar varnish now everything is spar polyurethane. The thing was with the spar varnish a little sanding and you could do a refresher coat. It is my understanding you can not do that with the poly. With it you need to remove it and do a new coat. Does anyone know for sure?


NOT everything. McClosky's Man-o-War Spar Varnish is still tung oil varnish. As is Epifanes


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## NACE (May 16, 2008)

How about custom tinting it with Mixol tints? Sounds like a little Orange and burnt umber will create the color he's looking for.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

How about strip & re-finish the door so they both age naturally together in perfect harmony


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## PaintPerfect (Sep 19, 2013)

There was no stain done on the outside of the door - just Helmsmans...and I'm sure he won't go for stripping the door - he loves the color and it is in near perfect shape. Nice to know they changed the formula and didn't label it that way. Looks just like the old can, which the customer left to the cold and wrecked... gotta love paint makers...  I guess time will tell...


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

1-2 years


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I was thinking about this thread today. I have been maintaining exterior spar applications all week and it got me to thinking. I am trying my best to get away from it being so nasty for our painters to apply isocyanates and all , and have had great results with the wb versions on new work. Its just clients want the oil base color, so we have been doing samples of tinted wb spar. 

Anyway back ot if you tint any oil base spar and it ages then you will be darker if you go for a match now. Maybe go lighter and let them know it will take a season to catch up.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Throw a round of Watco Teak under the spar, that'll help.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

straight_lines said:


> I was thinking about this thread today. I have been maintaining exterior spar applications all week and it got me to thinking. I am trying my best to get away from it being so nasty for our painters to apply isocyanates and all , and have had great results with the wb versions on new work. Its just clients want the oil base color, so we have been doing samples of tinted wb spar.
> 
> Anyway back ot if you tint any oil base spar and it ages then you will be darker if you go for a match now. Maybe go lighter and let them know it will take a season to catch up.


We've been doing antique oak door restorations lately with epifanes. Also looking for a suitable wb substitute. Which ones have impressed you?


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Scott we have sprayed out 8k square or so of pine t&g with helmsman wb in the shop. I have yet to do the final coat on site, but we were able to sand, coat, sand and recoat in about five hours labor for that much stock. All done in aaa on the finish pro in a controlled environment. 

Really easy to get to that point and with the required three coats I think there will be a pretty durable film build. These are for porches so no direct sunlight.

http://www.painttalk.com/f24/waterborne-helmsman-spar-urethane-25137/


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## PaintPerfect (Sep 19, 2013)

There was no stain done on the outside of the door - just Helmsmans...and I'm sure he won't go for stripping the door - he loves the color and it is in near perfect shape. Nice to know they changed the formula and didn't label it that way. Looks just like the old can, which the customer left to the cold and wrecked... gotta love paint makers...  I guess time will tell...


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## PaintPerfect (Sep 19, 2013)

aaron61 said:


> 1-2 years


This is exactly the answer I was looking for. Thank you


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

straight_lines said:


> I was thinking about this thread today. I have been maintaining exterior spar applications all week and it got me to thinking. I am trying my best to get away from it being so nasty for our painters to apply isocyanates and all , and have had great results with the wb versions on new work. Its just clients want the oil base color, so we have been doing samples of tinted wb spar.
> 
> Anyway back ot if you tint any oil base spar and it ages then you will be darker if you go for a match now. Maybe go lighter and let them know it will take a season to catch up.



What product are you using to tint the WB? Dyes I'm assuming? If so, how do you think they will hold up with direct sunlight? 

I'm curious because most manufacturer's recommend strongly against using dye or dye stains in direct sunlight applications.


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

vermontpainter said:


> We've been doing antique oak door restorations lately with epifanes. Also looking for a suitable wb substitute. Which ones have impressed you?


We've used both the Helmsman and the General Finishes one. 

In the long run I think the General Finishes 450 Exterior will hold up better. I like the Helmsman because it is local and I can get it at a cheaper price, but I've noticed a little bit of fade in about a year of direct sunlight already. (Granted we are in the desert where the sun is WAY harsher than a lot of other climates (aka east cost etc)).

Overall its a great product and I have no complains about the WB helmsman, I'm glad they actually came up with it as it helps us keep everything in WB family.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

woodcoyote said:


> We've used both the Helmsman and the General Finishes one.
> 
> In the long run I think the General Finishes 450 Exterior will hold up better. I like the Helmsman because it is local and I can get it at a cheaper price, but I've noticed a little bit of fade in about a year of direct sunlight already. (Granted we are in the desert where the sun is WAY harsher than a lot of other climates (aka east cost etc)).
> 
> Overall its a great product and I have no complains about the WB helmsman, I'm glad they actually came up with it as it helps us keep everything in WB family.


Thanks for the info, WC. Will have to check it out. Alot of times we are preparing things to live under porches, like in Tommy's picture. WB should be evolved enough at this point to withstand that and more. Good to hear from someone who is putting it in extreme exposures.


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

woodcoyote said:


> What product are you using to tint the WB? Dyes I'm assuming? If so, how do you think they will hold up with direct sunlight?
> 
> I'm curious because most manufacturer's recommend strongly against using dye or dye stains in direct sunlight applications.


No we have been using mixol same tint nace mentioned earlier in this thread.
http://amzn.com/B00ATQVPMW


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