# Baffled Benjamin Moore Semi Gloss



## Islandbound53 (Sep 16, 2007)

Does anybody hate the new formula semi gloss by Benjamin Moore, I know the "new" formula isn't brand new been out for awhile now but i hate that stuff more than anything, everytime i have to pick it up paint with it i just want to throw the entire can in the garbage. Dries too fast, drags all over, ruins brushes like crazy, makes me want to never use benny moore but i have to its all the boss uses


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

Yes I would not use it on trim ever again that and Pearl. 

I try not to use the regal line at all if I can help it. I really don't think they did a good thing when they change the formula's. I know there has been other threads about this all ready. Really for the price there SS line is worth what you pay for it.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Are you talking about AquaGlo?


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## Islandbound53 (Sep 16, 2007)

AquaGlo, Satin Impervo


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

Islandbound53 said:


> AquaGlo, Satin Impervo



Those two are different animals all together, yes Aquaglo is now regal semi and yes new formula. Satin Impervo is oil and was not change as far as I know


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## Islandbound53 (Sep 16, 2007)

Impervo i am talking about is latex, i am not sure if Benny moore switched the impervo entirely to latex or they still carry an impervo oil formula, but for some reason i think the Satin Impervo is now all latex, anyhow, we use Satin Impervo latex all the time its not much better than Regal semi gloss, what the hell happened use to like their trim paint, now its all horrible, if it aint broke dont fix it


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

There is still oil satin impervo. The waterborne impervo works really nice. Its thinner and less rubbery than aquaglo and results in a nice smooth finish. Much easier to work with as well. 

Part of the deal these days is figuring out the learning curve on new and reformulated products.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> There is still oil satin impervo. The waterborne impervo works really nice. Its thinner and less rubbery than aquaglo and results in a nice smooth finish. Much easier to work with as well.
> 
> Part of the deal these days is figuring out the learning curve on new and reformulated products.


BM's satin impervo is oil, waterborne impervo is label as waterborne impervo and I believe it not listed as satin impervo it my have a satin sheen tho.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

MAK-Deco said:


> BM's satin impervo is oil, waterborne impervo is label as waterborne impervo and I believe it not listed as satin impervo it my have a satin sheen tho.


In this case, you would be wrong...the word above satin is waterborne.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

This is oil


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> In this case, you would be wrong...the word above satin is waterborne.


In this case I would be! Damn


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Thats good to see once in a while MAK! :thumbup:


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## slickshift (Apr 8, 2007)

Islandbound53 said:


> ... if it aint broke dont fix it


As I understand it, it really is a EPA VOC thing, not a "hey let's mess with this" thing
The tints in these acrylics are still oil-based, so it's an issue in some states and in some regards nationally

I believe the Satin Impervo (alkyd) was also reformulated, but I'm not sure it's as noticeable
The Satin Impervo will be labeled as a "metal" paint starting next year
It's supposed to be a label-only change
It's the only way to keep it legal


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## KeirK (Nov 30, 2007)

Slick,
Are there different regs for metal? Or is it the commercial aspect that will grant the extension?
Keir


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## slickshift (Apr 8, 2007)

In this case I believe it's the different regs for metal


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

I'll admit earlier this year, I ran out of my stock of white aquaglo. I usually buy 20 gallons in a shot because we use it all the time. What I _had_ was the old latex S/G. I ran out for 2 gallons, got the new acrylic S/G. I had to paint a bunch of doors/frames, base etc. 

The stuff literally kicked my a55. I fought it, and fought it some more. It drug horribly, and dried so fast I couldn't successfully stroke out an insert on a door. And my video showed I can paint them fast enough . 

I even did something I never do, and added some conditioner to the paint. Didn't seem to help a bit. After botching a door and some drawer fronts, I gave up and bought 2 gallons of super spec S/G. The coverage wasn't near as good as the aquaglo, so it required 1 extra coat. But at least I could brush the stuff out to level it.

I still love the waterborne S/I though. :thumbsup:

Every time I see those 2 gallons of aquaglo in my shop, I can hear them laughing and mocking me. One day soon I'll have to bust them out and try to show them who's boss. 

_But I'm scared..._


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

ProWallGuy said:


> I'll admit earlier this year, I ran out of my stock of white aquaglo. I usually buy 20 gallons in a shot because we use it all the time. What I _had_ was the old latex S/G. I ran out for 2 gallons, got the new acrylic S/G. I had to paint a bunch of doors/frames, base etc.
> 
> The stuff literally kicked my a55. I fought it, and fought it some more. It drug horribly, and dried so fast I couldn't successfully stroke out an insert on a door. And my video showed I can paint them fast enough .
> 
> ...


I just wonder with BM being so big did they test this or just try and pass this stuff off as better and raise prices?


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## Islandbound53 (Sep 16, 2007)

Thats what i am saying, how could they have tested that new formula and agreed it was a more effective advanced paint, its horrible


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## slickshift (Apr 8, 2007)

Again, I believe this was reformulated because they had to
Regardless, no company will ever say "You'll just _hate_ our new reformulation"
The spin on it is it dries faster and harder
...and that it does

Is it better?...or worse?
Well...I don't really have a problem with it
It's more like WB Impervo...it dries fast and doesn't take kindly to over-brushing...try to load it up and you'll get sags...
It is what it is
Truthfully I use mostly the Impervos anyway
It's just not a big deal to me

We are all just rat in a maze, and we hate it when some white coat switches our cheese from cheddar to Parmesan
It tastes different, it melts different...it doesn't go with a hamburger as well
We either get a grater and make some spaghetti, or back up and try and find something else


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

slickshift said:


> Again, I believe this was reformulated because they had to
> Regardless, no company will ever say "You'll just _hate_ our new reformulation"
> The spin on it is it dries faster and harder
> ...and that it does
> ...


I agree with that scencio but as consumers of these product and users of the products there comes a time when we are right and they are wrong. The product is not better in my opinion then what was labeled regal before and a few others here on PT and many I have talked to in the Chicago area agree.

Now Aura I think is a good paint. Did they dumb down Regal to make Aura seem even better? who knows. BM is owned by a huge comglomerate as many other paint co's now so bottom line is the $ not the total statisfaction for the masses. I am sure Mr. Buffett cares only that the company makes money and not about any of us little painters.... 

Did they have to re-form it for Low Voc's? I don't think so because they don't sell it as having low voc's or even lower voc's then previous formula of regal. 

I used to have a strong allegiance to BM for a lot of years and have gotten away from it in the last 5 years partly of the product not being as good as the price (and constant increases)it was being sold as and partly cause of moving and not having it available to me as easily as before. I will continue to find something else and hopefully stop using it all together.

my 2 cents


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

My supplier has told me that BM's intent with the waterborne impervo was to have a suitable substitute engineered and worked out in anticipation of the day when oils arent in production anymore. I have liked the waterborne impervo. Probably better than any incarnation of Aquaglo that I have used.

On the Regal side, I think Regal is good stuff. Never had a problem with it. Aura is great, but its a different breed of cat. In my opinion, we all have to figure out what makes each of these lines tick so that we can use them effectively on jobs.


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## JTP (Apr 29, 2007)

*Monte Man--How About???*



vermontpainter said:


> My supplier has told me that BM's intent with the waterborne impervo was to have a suitable substitute engineered and worked out in anticipation of the day when oils arent in production anymore. I have liked the waterborne impervo. Probably better than any incarnation of Aquaglo that I have used.
> 
> On the Regal side, I think Regal is good stuff. Never had a problem with it. Aura is great, but its a different breed of cat. In my opinion, we all have to figure out what makes each of these lines tick so that we can use them effectively on jobs.


Hey Monte Man-- It would be super to have a PT spec sheet developed. As in: What is the majority consensus for painting thus and so and why. We painters have different opinions on just about everything which makes a spec sheet almost impossible; but, if we could get a general sense of which brand and product is generally best suited for common jobs, it might work.

For instance: For exterior wood siding (new or re-stain), I really like Cabot's latext ProVT line and it works and performs well for me. I learned about this line from another painter on this fourm. Have now used it and can say I would suggest the pros here give it a try if they haven't already.

If others can begin to define a general spec sheet for other common work situations, that would be super. 

As a further example: What is preferred for: *New crown*--both primer(s) and finish--how about old crown that needs re-painting? What paint would you use and why? 

Badly weathered lap board--what products do use guys like and why? If we could keep this type of thread going and add to it, we'd soon have a database of products to at least try out.

Anyone interested?

JTP


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

JT

Certainly not a bad idea. I too love ProVt for some applications. 

I think it would be difficult to reach a consensus as so much is personal/professional preference. Thats why there are so many ice cream flavors. I'd be willing to contribute to the effort though.


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## VAInteriors (May 12, 2007)

MAK-Deco said:


> I just wonder with BM being so big did they test this or just try and pass this stuff off as better and raise prices?


I don't know about your store, but I know that none of my prices changed when they made the formula switch. I talked to my guys at the store and they say that they get a lot of love/hate about the semi gloss. Some people absolutely love it, and others not so much.

I think a lot of you guys take a really negative viewpoint about these paint companies. Its marketing 101 to make a product that you can sell. If you piss off everyone with your product it doesn't matter how much money you make on it, you're not going to sell it. S/W, Ben Moore, Pittsburgh, and all the others are working everyday to make better products. Sometimes regulations get in the way. Sometimes its something else, but you could never just start stripping down your products and try to sell them for higher prices. 

my $.02


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

VAInteriors said:


> I don't know about your store, but I know that none of my prices changed when they made the formula switch. I talked to my guys at the store and they say that they get a lot of love/hate about the semi gloss. Some people absolutely love it, and others not so much.
> 
> I think a lot of you guys take a really negative viewpoint about these paint companies. Its marketing 101 to make a product that you can sell. If you piss off everyone with your product it doesn't matter how much money you make on it, you're not going to sell it. S/W, Ben Moore, Pittsburgh, and all the others are working everyday to make better products. Sometimes regulations get in the way. Sometimes its something else, but you could never just start stripping down your products and try to sell them for higher prices.
> 
> my $.02


My point about price is regal was over priced for what you got before the re form and BM had a price increase this year and I am sure since the reform also.


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## VAInteriors (May 12, 2007)

MAK-Deco said:


> My point about price is regal was over priced for what you got before the re form and BM had a price increase this year and I am sure since the reform also.


 No doubt. I am just saying that it didn't happen at the same time. My prices have been pretty steady though. LUCKILY!


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## Islandbound53 (Sep 16, 2007)

So Mak what are you using now Sherwin?


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

Islandbound53 said:


> So Mak what are you using now Sherwin?


No they lost me as a customer in 94 with terrible service. I am using walmart paint now 

I use a combination of P&L, Cabot, C2, Sikkens and will use BM Aura for deeper colors. They are all available at the two dealers I use.


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## beautify (Apr 14, 2008)

*so glad to have found these comments... just painted with semi gloss BM.. it sucked*

I thought I was going crazy and regressing when I painted with the semi gloss the other day.. you're right it dried too fast and was hard to brush without drag.. so glad to see its the paint.. about to do trim outside and have always used BM.. any suggestions on a good exterior paint for New England weather.. lots of exposure.. was thinking of using the Ben Moore metal and wood latex.. cant remember the exact name.. know it by sight..


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

Suggestions for exterior trim paint in New England??!?!? I thought all painters in New England were using California's 2010 for Trim paint. Best paint on the market!


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## DeanV (Apr 18, 2007)

I have been using 2010 for exterior work the past couple years, I think I am just about the only one in SW MI using it. Good stuff.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

DeanV said:


> I have been using 2010 for exterior work the past couple years, I think I am just about the only one in SW MI using it. Good stuff.


Didn't know it was available in the midwest.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

plainpainter said:


> Suggestions for exterior trim paint in New England??!?!? I thought all painters in New England were using California's 2010 for Trim paint. Best paint on the market!


 
You probably could be more wrong, but not by much.

Benjamin Moore Moorglo


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

vermontpainter said:


> You probably could be more wrong, but not by much.
> 
> Benjamin Moore Moorglo


I'd take 2010 over Moorglo any day.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

NEPS.US said:


> I'd take 2010 over Moorglo any day.


With all due respect...


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