# Paint failure - help!



## FirstVTOdyssey (Jan 30, 2010)

I did a minor renovation last summer on a 800 sq ft apartment (flooring, bathroom, & paint), and within 3 months of the tenants moving in the paint has started to crack/shrink in 4 rooms. It looks very similar to "alligatoring", but 95% of it is still tightly adhering to the wall.

Walls in the kitchen, bathroom, 1 bedroom, a small 5' hallway off of the kitchen all have severe cracking and shrinking (I can see the original red paint in 1 room and green in another). After meeting with the regional California rep he said that it was a failure of the Bin due to high humidity, and suggested using 1 coat of oil base Zinsser primer, and then 1 coat of California paint, and it would be fixed. I did as he suggested, and everything looked good, but after 6 weeks the cracking has started to return. Right now they are very fine cracks, but that's the way the rest of the cracking started.

What I find odd about the rep's explanation is that:
A) The Bin had dried far longer than the minimum 1 hour re-coat time.
B) Once the latex paint had been applied and cured, it created a waterproof/humidity proof barrier.
C) If it was a failure of the Bin AND was due to humidity, then why have no cracks appeared on the ceilings, trim, cabinets, and wiremold (surface mounted electrical conduit), or in 1 bedroom off of the kitchen, or the 2 closets off of the hallway since all were prepped/painted the exact same way.
D) The previous tenant painted the ceiling in 1 of the bedrooms room with the same paint as the walls, yet the ceiling hasn't cracked and the walls have.

Prep/paint info:
The really nasty areas were washed w/soap & water and/or degreaser and then soap/water.
1-2+ coats of Bin (alcohol based) was used on all surfaces (walls, ceilings, and floors as both a stain block and an odor block).
2 coats of California "linen white" eggshell used on all walls.
2 coats California ceiling paint used on all ceilings.
2 coats California flat used on all cabinets/trim.

Details of the apt:
Located in Burlington, VT
1st floor apartment in a 3 floor, 9 unit building.
3 of the 4 sides of the apartment have exterior walls.
Painted in July 2009, tenants moved into the apt in August 
Heat source is 2 20k BTU space heaters - 1 in the kitchen w/the 2 bedrooms off of the kitchen, and the 2nd heater is in the living room w/the bathroom off of it. 
Heat is kept at 65 - 75 degrees.
2-5 year old insulated windows in all rooms.
Paint is peeling on the interior and exterior walls in the apartment, but not the ceilings and cabinets, and small cracks in a couple of spots have just started to appear in the last week or two the living room.
Walls are all painted over drywall, cement board, and plaster, however all have many coats of paint under the current paint. 
I believe that the exterior walls have blown in insulation, but definitely have Tyvek under the shiplap siding.
Building is wood framed, and was built in the mid - late 1800's as an apartment building.

This was my first experience with California paint, and the 5 gallon pail had been comped to me by my paint guy. Before the cracking first appeared I used an additional 15 gallons (different color) on another apartment and there appears to be no problems yet.

Sorry for such a long post, but I wanted to give as many details as possible.

Have any of you seen anything like this, and if so, any suggestions as to how to fix it short of skim coating the walls? 

Thanks!

Evan


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

Wow! I don't know what to say other than I have never seen paint crack so much! 

The only time i've ever seen cracking to that extent is on plastic vents where the paint was applied too heavily and dried too quickly (i.e. by blowdryer). In you case though I don't know what could have caused that. 

Why did you use a shellac primer on the walls? Did your paint rep recommend that to you? I have no knowledge of california paints so I can't help you there. My only guess (and it's just that, a guess) is that the two products you used are incompatible either with eachother or with the previous coating.

Hopefully someone here will have some answers for you.


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## tntpainting (Apr 3, 2008)

looks like u got a bad batch of paint to me you said the ceilings didnt crack , was a different paint used on it ?


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## FirstVTOdyssey (Jan 30, 2010)

Rcon said:


> Why did you use a shellac primer on the walls? Did your paint rep recommend that to you? I have no knowledge of california paints so I can't help you there. My only guess (and it's just that, a guess) is that the two products you used are incompatible either with eachother or with the previous coating.


The place had been trashed by the previous tenant and was absolutely disgusting, not to mention that her cats had pissed all over the place and it stank - It was so bad that I wore a Tyvek suit and respirator while cleaning it out, and stripped naked at the back door to my house and ran to the shower so that I wouldn't potentially bring anything inside that made it's way by the suit. The smell was so bad that people would cross the street so that they wouldn't have to walk by the open door! 

I used the shellac primer to make sure that no smells and/or nastiness would get through. I ended up using 28 gallons of Bin... a new record for me!


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## FirstVTOdyssey (Jan 30, 2010)

tntpainting said:


> looks like u got a bad batch of paint to me you said the ceilings didnt crack , was a different paint used on it ?


It was the same brand, different color and gloss - flat ceiling white vs linen white in eggshell

I'm pretty sure that it was the Bin that failed (in 2 rooms at least) since I can see the original coat of paint in the crack lines, but again, why didn't it crack on the ceiling where it had the same nasty green paint (why someone would paint a ceiling lime/sage green is beyond me!)

#^$$%&%^&


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## Roadog (Apr 18, 2007)

I've seen this happen once in Brunswick, Maine. Friends house did this. Only thing I could figure was some type of what looked to be an enamel type coating, (lead based), but really was clueless to what it really was. I scraped it off what I could, 2 coats of Peel Stop, then I skim coated it completely. Primed and painted. About a year later it came back somewhat but no where near as bad. CA. paints are pretty good IMO.
I believe if it was bad shellac it would have happened in days, not months..?


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

I've seen that before, but usually not so much of it!
Did you spray the BIN? ( aarrg- a killa)
BTW- people pay good money for that effect- LOL

I would think if it is bonded well, a flexable primer like Gardz or even Peel Bond
to seep into those cracks would be a better way to go rather than an oil prime. Probably need a skim after that, and a reprime. Bummer.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

Maybe a issue was the bin adhering to the original coat did you do any prep prior to using BIN? wash, sand?


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

WOW  Are the walls made of plaster or drywall?
Does the paint pull off the wall? If so does it pull the up to the BIN or does it pull past the BIN? 

How was the bin applied?

You said you washed the walls, with soap and water, then a degreaser, then soap and water again, could be you left a slight residue on the walls. 

How long had you applied the bin before top coating? 

If the paint is adheared to the wall and only has this accidental faux condition then I would scuff sand the walls, then prime the walls with something like gardz, skim coat the walls, then repaint. 

If you are having an adhesion issue you will want to make sure to remove any loose or flaking paint before putting anything on top of alligator finish.


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## FirstVTOdyssey (Jan 30, 2010)

Roadog said:


> I believe if it was bad shellac it would have happened in days, not months..?


Exactly my thoughts! Also, I went through 5 5gal pails and 4 1 gal pails, so what are the odds that most of it was bad? Also, I worked room by room, so the same pail that was used on the walls was also used on the ceiling...



BrushJockey said:


> I've seen that before, but usually not so much of it!
> Did you spray the BIN? ( aarrg- a killa)
> BTW- people pay good money for that effect- LOL
> 
> ...


Nope, BIN was applied w/cheap, disposable rollers, and the paint was applied w/18" rollers.

Do you know what caused this problem when you saw it before?

I really do not want to skim coat all of these rooms. That's a whole lot of mud, time, and a heck of a lot of sanding and dust. Not to mention I suck at skim coating, so it will cost me an arm and a leg to hire it out.

I've never used those primers, I usually use Kilz, or BIN when things are really bad (I know, I know, Kilz isn't the greatest, but for the most part it has worked well for me on interior apps.). I'll do some research on the ones you mentioned. What makes them so good?



MAK-Deco said:


> Maybe a issue was the bin adhering to the original coat did you do any prep prior to using BIN? wash, sand?


The really nasty dirty/greasy/nicotine tar spots were washed w/soap and water or degreaser and then soap and water. I've gone over similarly bad spots on walls with BIN before without washing them down and never had a problem.

I could see problems with paint/primer adhering in the kitchen due to grease and other gunk buildup on the walls, but I would expect it to be only in certain areas, not all over. 

For what it's worth, it was 80-90 degrees out and fairly humid when everything was being primed and/or painted, all of the windows were open and fans were in a couple of windows blowing out. On a couple of the really hot days when using the California paint, the windows were closed and I had an air conditioner running.


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## timhag (Sep 30, 2007)

Appears to be a Haunted House to me. Spirits don't want there house painted. Pack your sh*t and run as fast and as far as you can.


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## FirstVTOdyssey (Jan 30, 2010)

timhag said:


> Appears to be a Haunted House to me. Spirits don't want there house painted. Pack your sh*t and run as fast and as far as you can.


Believe me, I've thought about doing that way too many times to count, usually right after a major cast iron failure, a tenant overflows a tub/sink, doesn't pay rent, trashes a place that then requires a $15,000 renovation job (this apt).....


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

When I've seen it, it is usually a difference in expansion / contraction. 
A soft coat, maybe a flat over a hard coat, like a oil ( or even lead based) enamel.
Usually needs a significant temp change to show up. 

Since you say you're seeing down to earlier coats, not through your Cali paint to the BIN. I don't think it is a problem between those two. It is something about the bin to the wall paint. Which is weird, cause BIN sticks to everything.

I feel for you using that much BIN- Learn there are other solutions!

The only hope of not skimming might be in using Peel Bond, and spraying it. 
IMO, of course.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

It looks like you painted over wet walls and the wall dried after the paint dried. Or you painted two hevy coats and the first coat or the primer was not fully dried when the top coat was applied.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

BrushJockey said:


> When I've seen it, it is usually a difference in expansion / contraction.
> A soft coat, maybe a flat over a hard coat, like a oil ( or even lead based) enamel.


I have seen it when WB is applied over uncured oil base



BrushJockey said:


> Since you say you're seeing down to earlier coats, not through your Cali paint to the BIN. I don't think it is a problem between those two. It is something about the bin to the wall paint. Which is weird, cause BIN sticks to everything.


That is why I questioned the soap residue.


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## b.c.p (Jan 29, 2010)

man o man...what's behind the walls anything like insulation.my first thought was it must be cold and wet behind the walls and ceiling, i noticed the pipie on the one of the walls was tight,you might be beating a dead horse,that sheetrock,plaster or what ever those ceil,walls are they got to go and maybe a new roof,insulation major neglect on the owners part ....800sf man good luck


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

I could be way off here, but if i'm reading that right, you said you put 25 gallons of paint on, in an 800 square foot apartment. Is that right? If so, then my first guess would be that you put the paint on way too heavy. 

But I could be wrong, but I just did a 4000 sq ft commercial building, all spray work, ceilings/walls 2 coats with 20 gallons using a 517...


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## FirstVTOdyssey (Jan 30, 2010)

Workaholic said:


> WOW  Are the walls made of plaster or drywall? - Both, and there is also a section of cement board. All surfaces have many, many layers of paint over the original surface.
> 
> Does the paint pull off the wall? If so does it pull the up to the BIN or does it pull past the BIN? - only in a couple of spots does it pull off, for the most part it adheres very well. When it does, it goes past the BIN and to the "original" coat.
> 
> ...






BrushJockey said:


> I feel for you using that much BIN- Learn there are other solutions!
> 
> The only hope of not skimming might be in using Peel Bond, and spraying it.
> IMO, of course.


I'm all ears! What else works well as both a stain and odor block?


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## FirstVTOdyssey (Jan 30, 2010)

Rcon said:


> I could be way off here, but if i'm reading that right, you said you put 25 gallons of paint on, in an 800 square foot apartment. Is that right? If so, then my first guess would be that you put the paint on way too heavy.
> 
> But I could be wrong, but I just did a 4000 sq ft commercial building, all spray work, ceilings/walls 2 coats with 20 gallons using a 517...


28 gal of BIN, only 7 gal of paint. A lot of the BIN was put on the floors to get rid of all of the lovely cat piss (floors had commercial vinyl(??) tiles put down 40+ years ago, so it hadn't soaked into the subfloor in most of the rooms).


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## IHATE_HOMEDEPOT (May 27, 2008)

My take is that maybe the alcohol in the BIN melted a cheaper/older substrate possiblly an old vinyl paint. The question whether it is plaster or drywall is important if you wet the surface a bunch when cleaning then sealed it to quickly but also if the walls are not insulated properly this is also suspect due to the dry heat. The only way to remedy is to install 1/4 in. sheetrock over all the walls, there is no way floating is going to work.

By the way this alligator effect is achieved in decorative painting with animal hide glue where you put glue over a base coat and then apply a coat of paint before the glue dries. It is funny but I really dig this look.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

My guess would be similar to Rcons theory. 

The op doesnt say how much time was allowed between the soapy water scrub down and the bin application. I do know that July in Vermont was pretty humid with a ton of rain. High air moisture content. If there were not a couple of days of dry time with lots of fan circulation, and then the bin was way overapplied, which it sound like it was, that would be cause for the failure. Why didnt it happen on the ceilings? They didnt get as wet during the dousing process, and they probably didnt get the same over application of bin that the walls got. They look textured in the pics, but its hard to tell, that might be part of the difference as well. 

The only other explanation is that someone sabotaged the California with a healthy dose of Behr crackle finish.


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## IHATE_HOMEDEPOT (May 27, 2008)

FirstVTOdyssey said:


> I'm all ears! What else works well as both a stain and odor block?


Best way to get rid of the smell is to remove the smell by cleaning or getting rid of the carpet/curtains. If it is a hardwood floor maybe a little trickier.
The odor from cat urine can be improved by dosing the floor where they pee'd with an enzyme. The cats are not necessarily peeing on the walls but on the floor.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

You said that the failing paint was going past the BIN, so you some kind of adhesion failure with the BIN. 
There will not be an esy fix to this unless you can pass it off as a intended alligator finish. Without doing that you will have to go through all the steps I and others mentioned to fix. You could try gardz to fill in the cracks but after you start sanding and scraping i think you will see it needs to be skimmed. 



Just out of curiosity I noticed in your profile that you heard of this site through a Behr rep? A Behr rep recommened this site? 

Is this your property that you have been maintaining or a property that you are contracted to maintain?


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Good question Sean. Seems to be a fly in the woodpile on this. 

Also, bin in its shellac base is extremely brittle and susceptible to movement and moisture, which is why it doesnt really work on ext trim know killing.


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## FirstVTOdyssey (Jan 30, 2010)

Workaholic said:


> You said that the failing paint was going past the BIN, so you some kind of adhesion failure with the BIN.
> There will not be an esy fix to this unless you can pass it off as a intended alligator finish. Without doing that you will have to go through all the steps I and others mentioned to fix. You could try gardz to fill in the cracks but after you start sanding and scraping i think you will see it needs to be skimmed.
> 
> 
> ...


Looks like I'll follow the advice and do a skim coat. It's going to suck, but oh well, at least the issue will be corrected (I hope!) I wish I could pass it off as intentional, but since it's a pre-1978 building, there are lead paint laws so it needs to be corrected.

Yep, a Behr rep sent me here. I've been talking w/as many reps as I can find to try to get some info, and no one had ever seen anything like this. I ran into him on Friday and he suggested that I come here since there's such a large knowledge base. Even with the Behr bashing that goes on from time to time, he said that it was still a good site with tons of great info.

This is a property that we purchased a couple of years ago and have been slowly getting rid of the bad tenants, renovating the apartments and getting good folks in, as well as fixing many, many, many years of neglect and deferred maintenance. We own a couple buildings, and I manage several for other people as well.

Evan


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## Metro M & L (Jul 21, 2009)

You said the place stunk pretty bad. Did it just smell like cat or were there other smells as well?

Were they cooking meth in the unit? 

Definitely sounds like too much paint was applied to quickly. It's much easier to hold the gun facing the wall than the ceiling...


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## slickshift (Apr 8, 2007)

*Truly Horrifying*

But...
I have beat the snot out of BIN over so many UnSubs in Apt and "Bacon-For-Every-Meal-Kitchen" Re-paints for so many years, I can't see it being a "BIN Issue"
I suppose if the "cleaning" prep left a _heavy _residue, or was still _way_ wet, it's possible the BIN _reacted_ like that
(That'd be a prep issue rather than a product issue)

If you can peal off on of those "alligator scales" and see the previous coating, well then yeah the BIN failed
And I'd say it was either or both of the above that was the culprit rather than the product

Remember, shellac (in itself) does not have the temp or humidity requirements of most other coatings or primers (it can be used in much colder temps and in much higher humidity than most anything else)

However, BIN (like all others) reaches it's limits on "wet" substrates
If the substrate was in fact still too wet (damp) to coat (and without a moisture meter reading we may never know really), yes I'd (actually) expect this to happen (if you can peal off on of those "alligator scales" and see the previous coating)

Regardless: if what's left is firmly adhering, then the fix would be a "peel stop" and a skim coat and a prime, then top coats


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

With all due respect, I am not sure I would send Odyssey down the skimming road just yet. If adhesion is compromised, the moisture in the mud is going to get behind the current coating (through the cracks) and the weight of the mud is going to start pulling it off the wall. Bigger, uglier mess. Think in terms of like when you apply a heavy mil ext film over loose, cracked, or peeling paint. I dont know that I would go there until you exactly know where in the substrate the failure lies.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

vermontpainter said:


> With all due respect, I am not sure I would send Odyssey down the skimming road just yet. If adhesion is compromised, the moisture in the mud is going to get behind the current coating (through the cracks) and the weight of the mud is going to start pulling it off the wall. Bigger, uglier mess. Think in terms of like when you apply a heavy mil ext film over loose, cracked, or peeling paint. I dont know that I would go there until you exactly know where in the substrate the failure lies.


That is why I recommended sanding and scraping all the failing product, and then priming prior to the skim. 


Out of how many rooms did this problem occur Odyssey? Not all of them correct? 

Metro made a point and that is if they were cooking meth in the place the residue on the walls could of caused the failure. Of course the lids would of probably failed then as well.


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

Workaholic said:


> That is why I recommended sanding and scraping all the failing product, and then priming prior to the skim.
> 
> :yes:
> 
> And this is usually the point in the program where it would be prudent to suggest that the project is probably escalating out of the realm of the property manager and into the realm of the professional painter. (and no, I am not interested!) :no: However, Matts Painting and Drywall here in VT could probably end this nightmare pretty quick.


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## slickshift (Apr 8, 2007)

vermontpainter; said:


> With all due respect, I am not sure I would send Odyssey down the skimming road just yet...I dont know that I would go there until you exactly know where in the substrate the failure lies.


Ayuh...
Truly, this is a (yet another) "Must Know Why" before a (real/true) "Fix" can be suggested with confidence


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

yes there would be some typeof priming first prior to any skimming for sure... That's a given unless you want more problems..


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## rangerdriver (May 7, 2009)

Wow I fell sorry for you. Maybe you could just put some glaze on it and call it a fuax finish. It looks like you painted over hide glue! I have never seen anything this bad and I hope I never do in person. Did you clean the cealings just like the walls? Maybe it was something you cleaned the walls with that caused the primer to fail.


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## FirstVTOdyssey (Jan 30, 2010)

Workaholic said:


> That is why I recommended sanding and scraping all the failing product, and then priming prior to the skim.
> 
> 
> Out of how many rooms did this problem occur Odyssey? Not all of them correct?
> ...



It occurred in the kitchen, a bedroom, bathroom, and a tiny hallway, so 3 1/2 rooms. I have also just started to see it beginning in the living room as well.

To be honest, I wouldn't put it past the previous tenant to try cooking meth, but I don't think she was smart enough to do it successfully, and if she had tried, I'd be surprised that she didn't blow up the building.



slickshift said:


> Ayuh...
> Truly, this is a (yet another) "Must Know Why" before a (real/true) "Fix" can be suggested with confidence


Exactly. The last thing that I want to do is try a fix, only to have it get worse.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

FirstVTOdyssey said:


> It occurred in the kitchen, a bedroom, bathroom, and a tiny hallway, so 3 1/2 rooms. I have also just started to see it beginning in the living room as well.
> 
> To be honest, I wouldn't put it past the previous tenant to try cooking meth, but I don't think she was smart enough to do it successfully, and if she had tried, I'd be surprised that she didn't blow up the building.
> 
> ...


Intresting, if it is just starting in another room then as you mentioned earlier it might not be done cracking. 




vermontpainter said:


> (and no, I am not interested!) :no: However, Matts Painting and Drywall here in VT could probably end this nightmare pretty quick.


Might be in your best interest to give a call to a seasoned professional to look at it first hand and give you some options to repair. Sometimes it's easier to pay someone with more experience to take care of this kind of stuff.


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## FirstVTOdyssey (Jan 30, 2010)

Thanks for all of the input, keep it coming!

To answer some of the questions:

I cleaned some parts of the walls, but not all. All areas that were cleaned were also rinsed with water. At first I thought that it could have been as a result of leaving residue, or not getting rid of something that was left on the walls by the tenant, but the cracking is just as bad in areas that were cleaned as they were in areas that weren't.

The BIN was put on just as "thick" on the walls as the ceilings.

There were smells other than cat urine and feces, but I couldn't identify them. I had been told by several of the other tenants that she was smoking crack, but I can not confirm it. She burned lots of candles and incense to hide the pot smell.

The cracking paint took several months to appear, and is steadily getting worse. Areas that were hairline cracks are now much larger and deeper, and will catch a fingernail if run across it. I tried peeling it in several areas, and it wouldn't come off, so the adhesion appears to be decent in most spots, but it is coming off in a few places. I noticed a stress crack on a wall in the living room, and another one on the underside of an arched doorway. There obviously is still a little bit of movement in the building, but these places are on the opposite side of where the paint cracking is occurring.

I have had 2 drywaller/painters take a look, as well as the California paint rep, and my supplier, and none seem to have any idea why the BIN did not adhere. They all suggested priming and then re-painting, which as I found out did not fix the problem. I'll make some phone calls and get someone else out there to take a look. 

Evan


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## vermontpainter (Dec 24, 2007)

You must be dealing with Able?


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## FirstVTOdyssey (Jan 30, 2010)

You are correct.


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## Bender (Aug 10, 2008)

Looks like bad paint to me.


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## capitalcity painting (Apr 28, 2008)

IHATE_HOMEDEPOT said:


> My take is that maybe the alcohol in the BIN melted a cheaper/older substrate possiblly an old vinyl paint. The question whether it is plaster or drywall is important if you wet the surface a bunch when cleaning then sealed it to quickly but also if the walls are not insulated properly this is also suspect due to the dry heat. The only way to remedy is to install 1/4 in. sheetrock over all the walls, there is no way floating is going to work.
> 
> By the way this alligator effect is achieved in decorative painting with animal hide glue where you put glue over a base coat and then apply a coat of paint before the glue dries. It is funny but I really dig this look.


This may be the problem. I started a job last week where the lady wanted a new Valspar 2 part epoxy on the walls in her garage for extra durability. I asked my SW manager about that and he said the coating may be too "hot" for the previous coating. I of course talked her out of that mess but this may be your problem. The previous coat may have been something that couldnt take the shellac coating but could of took a reg. oil base primer. Its stories like this that keep me away from buying rental property, Good Luck


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

FirstVTOdyssey said:


> I really do not want to skim coat all of these rooms. That's a whole lot of mud, time, and a heck of a lot of sanding and dust.



NOt only that, but it's possible that the extra weight and coating thickness would cause even more of a problem if it started to happen again.

I would put the oneness on the rep who told you how to fix the problem.

You fixed it according to their specification/instructions, and it didn't work.

Get them to pay for any more work done to remedy the issue.

You need to find out what kind of paint is underneath the failing layer.

This will help determine what is causing the problem.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Interesting problem. rcons observation of the amount of BIN primer used, coincide with my own theory. Too heavy of a primer coat, resulting in entrapped solvent. See attached Link for BIN specifications on DFT.

http://www.zinsser.com/pdf/TDB/bin.pdf.


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## painting247 (Mar 18, 2009)

OMG First, That is cool! Sorry, I couldn't resist.....Looks like aged *lead paint* to me.
Or a crackle effect that was intentional, I don't think I could duplicate that if I wanted to.


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## Joepro0000 (Jul 27, 2009)

I'd say tear down the walls, redrywall, and paint!


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## Precision (Nov 3, 2009)

Looks like a crackle faux finish to me. It's a popular finish around here on B board. Though not intentional, your top coat failed to bond (for what ever that reason truely is no longer matters really) causing the seperation. Your best bet is to skim the walls with a lightweight compound, blow on some orange peel texture, prime and paint. Problem solved. If not, you will end up spending more time and money trying to correct your problem.


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## Metro M & L (Jul 21, 2009)

I woke up this morning and remembered where I saw that crackle pattern. In the bottom of a five gallon bucket with about 1/2 of oil that I had left out to dry. 

I say too much paint.


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## FirstVTOdyssey (Jan 30, 2010)

Last Craftsman - unfortunately the only rep that I could get out there to take a look was the California rep, and his product wasn't the one that caused the problem. 

The paint under the BIN is Behr semi gloss. 

I was finally able to get in touch with someone at Zinsser who at least seemed to be interested in trying to figure out what had happened and said he was going to do some research. I'm supposed to hear back from him today. Unless they instruct me otherwise, it looks like I'm going to coat with Peel Bond, skim coat, prime, and paint, and hopefully that will take care of the issue.

Thanks everyone for all of your insight and information. 

Evan


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## Formulator (May 28, 2008)

FirstVTOdyssey said:


> Last Craftsman - unfortunately the only rep that I could get out there to take a look was the California rep, and his product wasn't the one that caused the problem.
> 
> The paint under the BIN is Behr semi gloss.
> 
> ...


 
I forwarded your problem onto the Zinsser lab. They are gonna have their BIN specialist look at this.


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## momule (Feb 5, 2010)

As some others stated it appears to me that the primer coat or first coat of paint was not cured before the topcoat/second coat was applied. Paint will usually only alligator like that for a couple of reasons. In this case it appears there was moisture under the paint film. The moisture has to evaporate somehow and if the coating has already started to build a film it will crack the film to allow for evaporation.


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## dosgris (Jan 6, 2008)

In the 3rd photo it appears something is bleeding through. I don't know... surfactant bleed? 
Wonder how many old coats of paint were already there before you started. Did I read the old surface was Behr latex semigloss? Does that stuff dry hard or stays kinda soft?


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## MaizeandBluePainter (May 7, 2008)

I noticed the bleed in the third photo, but it looked to me like nicotene. My guess was that the walls were saturated with it, and the property manager kept recoating because it kept bleeding through, and thus the 25 gallons. Seems likely if he had some nicotene but didn't wash all the walls. 

Followed by thick-film paint failure.


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## nogg (Aug 23, 2007)

I had this happen to me a couple days ago and was searching for info when I found this thread.Has anyone used DrawTite over this problem and what were the results?


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## AV Painting (Apr 25, 2012)

I would spray multiple thick coats of SW Peel bonding primer or other high build primer then re-paint.


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## Brian C (Oct 8, 2011)

My view is the paint has been applied way too thick and its shrinkage cracks.


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