# Stain Matching Pine



## 215PaintingAndCarpentry (8 mo ago)

I need to put together a quote for staining newly installed pine casing and windows, I didn't get any photos since it was a "while you're here can you look at..." and I needed to get going.

The windows and casing were already installed in a finished home before anyone even asked me so staining before install is not an option.

Initially I was leaning toward a first coat of General Finishes Gel Topcoat to even out the blotching pine is prone too before putting on a coat of General Finishes Gel Stain and then top coats but even with the Topcoat I haven't always had great results on difficult to stain woods like maple and pine so now I'm thinking maybe I'd be better with Transtint Dye.

The problem there though is the Transtint is messy and I have no experience using it in a house like that. I'm worried that even with 24" masking film taped tight to the casing the dye will leak through the tape pretty bad, a few touch ups are to be expected but I don't want to repaint all the walls if I can avoid it. I'm even more worried about the carpet, even if I put carpet protector down and 4 mil plastic covering the whole wall below each window, lapped over the carpet protector taped tight and a bundle of rags to soak up the dye that will inevitably be running off it seems like a serious risk.

I'm not even 100 percent sure I want to bid on this thing at this point.

Any ideas or advice on how to stain this stuff would be appreciated.

David


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

I did these Spruce pieces with a 10:1 mix Saman water based Stain and Polyurethane. 2 coats applied by brush. I thought it turned out well and would be less chance of bleeding through your tape like an oil stain or dye. My 2 cents.


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## kmp (Jan 30, 2011)

You need to condition the pine before you stain it. Staining over carpet is never fun but lots of plastic is the best you can do.


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## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

I'd be thinking along the same lines as kevyn - something like a pseudo-stain that's more like a translucent coating and can be cut/brushed like paint. (A higher quality "polyshades"). 

I'd also be hoping that there was a bunch of scrap left around from the job to experiment with getting the right mix/look before going to the real thing too. Or if there's no scrap around, just get a piece of something identical. An added advantage is being able to present the HO with samples so that they choose the preferred look and whatnot.


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## 215PaintingAndCarpentry (8 mo ago)

The 'home made polyshades" is an interesting idea, does adding the poly just make it easier to brush and give it more dry time? I had totally forgot about Samans, I had some really nice results with it on poplar with no other conditioner or anything in the past and then some not so great results which I think were largely because that stuff dries so fast it's hard to keep a wet edge on a large surface.

I have not had much luck with conditioner in the past, maybe there is a better product out there though.

I did grab 5 18" ish casing scraps before I left for testing and samples and he has more at the house.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

215PaintingAndCarpentry said:


> The 'home made polyshades" is an interesting idea, does adding the poly just make it easier to brush and give it more dry time? I had totally forgot about Samans, I had some really nice results with it on poplar with no other conditioner or anything in the past and then some not so great results which I think were largely because that stuff dries so fast it's hard to keep a wet edge on a large surface.
> 
> I have not had much luck with conditioner in the past, maybe there is a better product out there though.
> 
> I did grab 5 18" ish casing scraps before I left for testing and samples and he has more at the house.


General finishes water based stains take great on pine as do saman stains without the use of conditioner. If you want to use a conditioner on pine I highly recommend you use glue size, I use 4:1 tightbond original with water. Works better than anything off the shelf.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Joe67 said:


> I'd be thinking along the same lines as kevyn - something like a pseudo-stain that's more like a translucent coating and can be cut/brushed like paint. (A higher quality "polyshades").
> 
> ...


Gel stain can be used like this using a dry brushing technique instead of wiping, these types of stains are basically a translucent urethane paint


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## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Gel stain can be used like this using a dry brushing technique instead of wiping, these types of stains are basically a translucent urethane paint


So you're saying just brush on the gel stain (evenly, of course) and leave it to dry more or less as a coating? I'll buy that. Does it end up with the same durability as a tinted poly? Or do you have to then topcoat it with some manner of poly?


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Joe67 said:


> So you're saying just brush on the gel stain (evenly, of course) and leave it to dry more or less as a coating? I'll buy that. Does it end up with the same durability as a tinted poly? Or do you have to then topcoat it with some manner of poly?


Still needs a topcoat really due to the pigment load. You can get like 800-1200 sqft/ gallon. Lots of open time with oil gel stain so relatively easy to brush with the grain and blend. Because you are not wiping a pint of the stuff goes forever.

*Use a light weight natural bristle like Wooster yachtsman, Oxhair is too fine and it drags


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

215PaintingAndCarpentry said:


> The 'home made polyshades" is an interesting idea, does adding the poly just make it easier to brush and give it more dry time? I had totally forgot about Samans, I had some really nice results with it on poplar with no other conditioner or anything in the past and then some not so great results which I think were largely because that stuff dries so fast it's hard to keep a wet edge on a large surface.
> 
> I have not had much luck with conditioner in the past, maybe there is a better product out there though.
> 
> I did grab 5 18" ish casing scraps before I left for testing and samples and he has more at the house.


Exactly. You just brush it on like a regular poly. I experimented with this when looking for a type of waterbased tinted toning lacquer. I don't think Saman condones this, but I figured at a 10% cut it was fine. Was really impressed with results. Mixed it with the Saman Waterbased poly. The Saman Stains don't really need a conditioner as they stain pretty evenly.


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## 215PaintingAndCarpentry (8 mo ago)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> Still needs a topcoat really due to the pigment load. You can get like 800-1200 sqft/ gallon. Lots of open time with oil gel stain so relatively easy to brush with the grain and blend. Because you are not wiping a pint of the stuff goes forever.
> 
> *Use a light weight natural bristle like Wooster yachtsman, Oxhair is too fine and it drags


I'll have to experiment with this some more, I tried a few sample pieces like this and it didn't come out very even but I don't know if I had the best brush for it or how much time I spent trying to get it spread out nicely.


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## 215PaintingAndCarpentry (8 mo ago)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Exactly. You just brush it on like a regular poly. I experimented with this when looking for a type of waterbased tinted toning lacquer. I don't think Saman condones this, but I figured at a 10% cut it was fine. Was really impressed with results. Mixed it with the Saman Waterbased poly. The Saman Stains don't really need a conditioner as they stain pretty evenly.


I will have to try this at some point. I did go ahead and send over a quote on this job, assuming Saman or a Saman/poly mix, I don't think I'll get the job, he wants to get some other quotes and I have a feeling he's going to track down some more budget minded painters but we'll see.


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