# painting after wallcovering stripping



## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

I got a question for you all. (yes it IS a leading question, but please answer honestly)


You've just stripped a small powder room of wall paper and on the walls is a nice even coating of clay adhesive. (that's the brown stuff)

If those walls are going to be painted, how do you proceed.

Wash the paste off
Sand the paste off
Prime over it (and with what)
or something else.

(Yes I know BB, why strip the paper in the first place ? :thumbup: )

thanks


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## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

I would sand and than prime with fresh start acrylic primer. I'm not saying this is the best way to do it just what I would do. Since I can hang sheet rock I usually tell people it is cheaper to put new sheet rock up and it will look better than to strip wallpaper. Basically I hate removing wall paper.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Is this a question for the newbies? Arch initiation?


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Workaholic said:


> Is this a question for the newbies? Arch initiation?


Nope, just a question inspired by a real life happenstance. 

But you have a great idea :thumbup:


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

Arch were you at my job this week? I just did a powder from the 68' never touched pulled paper some kind of clay paste or vinyl paste. Stripped paper, washed hot water and scraped while it was wet. let dry, lightly sand primed with tinted Aqua lock two coats of Eggshell paint. Complete!


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## slickshift (Apr 8, 2007)

daArch said:


> I got a question for you all. (yes it IS a leading question, but please answer honestly)
> 
> 
> You've just stripped a small powder room of wall paper and on the walls is a nice even coating of clay adhesive. (that's the brown stuff)
> ...


Well...all of the above I guess

I've not ever heard of the "brown stuff" Arch (though I have run into SuperGlue, Caulk, and other UnSubs left clinging to the walls after the removal)

That being said, after stripping, I *wash* (using "wallpaper remover")
If needed (eg: still gunky bits etc. - not actually squeaky clean) I'll then then *sand *(R/O *if needed*) and wipe (off the dust) - if not actually wash again
Then (regardless of previous steps needed) I'll *prime* using Gardz or an alkyd primer (depending on the situation)

I only strip a few times a year, so I'm sure I haven't seen it all
But I am thinking of 2 specific instances in the last few years where I've had issues (both fixed eventually, but with a great reduction in production (time) and materials (and therefore profit)
So now I'm wondering (as per your "leading question" if this clay adhesive was perhaps one of the "UnSubs" and actually the culprit (or at least perhaps part of it)


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## summertime14 (May 4, 2009)

I usually strip, scrape heavy glue off, wash and scrub walls, let dry, do any necessary patching and sanding, then prime with coverstain (quick dry) and paint. I use oil primer because in the past have seen streaks come through the finish from the glue, even though all visible glue was washed off. I really don't mind stripping wallpaper. Its not that hard if you do it right, and most homeowners hate doing it, so they don't mind paying me to do it.


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

summertime14 said:


> I usually strip, scrape heavy glue off, wash and scrub walls, let dry, do any necessary patching and sanding, then prime with coverstain (quick dry) and paint. I use oil primer because in the past have seen streaks come through the finish from the glue, even though all visible glue was washed off. I really don't mind stripping wallpaper. Its not that hard if you do it right, and most homeowners hate doing it, so they don't mind paying me to do it.



I've done alot of stripping this year. And I've dished on the brown stuff ( back in the day , all clear now).
Summer' s got it, although I find it's safer to prime ( I have been shown the light with Gardz) before patching and then spot prime. Almost never use oil to prime anymore.


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## LA Painter (Jul 28, 2009)

#4) Paint over the glue, and charge extra for a crackle finish.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Thanks guys,

Here's what brought up the question. One part of the present job is a small powder. I was told the "painter" was going to strip it and have it ready for me (I usually "offer" to strip - but I try not to cause an issue by insisting). 

Anyway, I showed up yesterday and the paper was off, but there was a nice layer of clay paste remaining on the walls.

Although the painter did not speak English as a first language (I was shocked) I did understand that he felt the walls were ready for him if he were going to paint. 

He was absolutely insistant that the walls were ready. But, he finally accepted that I was a wacky American paper hanger who wanted needless work done. After some "discussion" he agreed to wash them "clean" with fabric softener. (I had to wash that stinky residue off today)

At one point I did ask if he was a member of PDCA and had read their standards. 

He looked at me like I had grown another head right in front of him. 

I just wanted to make sure that there wasn't a note I never received from the manufacturers recommending that professional painters should paint over paste.

(BTW, we use *PASTE* not glue)

Maybe it's a cultural thing. Maybe that's how they do it in Brazil. Or maybe he couldn't afford to be thorough, and I can't afford to take chances.


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

strip, wash, mud if needed, sand, prime and paint.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

jacob33 said:


> I would sand and than prime with fresh start acrylic primer. I'm not saying this is the best way to do it just what I would do. Since I can hang sheet rock I usually tell people it is cheaper to put new sheet rock up and it will look better than to strip wallpaper. Basically I hate removing wall paper.


 
Fresh start would NOT be the primer to use, Gardz or oil based only .


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

I would have let the damn guy paint over the mess and come back in a week or so and showed the ho just what was happening


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Well, I really wanted to tell him, "OK, put your waterborne Fresh Start over the water soluble paste and I'll hang the paper, but first, will you sign this document of responsibility if anything goes wrong with the install for the next three years?"

But then I considered the language barrier - you know, professional vs hack. 

And, as far as applying Gardz over that much paste, I wonder what the boys at Zinsser would say if I told them I was going to mix their product with wallpaper paste during application - would it affect the warranty? 

And that's basically what one is doing when one applies a waterborne over a water soluble substance, the two products mix on the wall and then dry to some form of unknown chemical compound.


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

Who said put Gardz over the paste? yer hacker wasn't going to do that.


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

chrisn said:


> Fresh start would NOT be the primer to use, Gardz or oil based only .


I have had no issues using Aqualock which is waterbased and so is gardz btw... there are plenty of acrylics out there that will work these days..


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## [email protected] (Mar 1, 2008)

I do the oil primer to. Tinted of course to top color. Doing one right now. All most when to Gaurd's for this project but if you think about it I would being adding another coat of paint.


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

The big difference is you can do the next thing in an hour after Gardz. Rock and roll!


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## MAK-Deco (Apr 17, 2007)

BrushJockey said:


> The big difference is you can do the next thing in an hour after Gardz. Rock and roll!



I do like gardz don't get me wrong but the 4th mention it does nothing for top coat coverage.. and with oils that dry fast these days you can top coat in hour as well.

tinted primer makes top coating easier and quicker


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

Good point. I've been meaning to suggest a tinted Gardz to them. Think they'll listen?


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## slickshift (Apr 8, 2007)

daArch said:


> I was told the "painter" was going to strip it and have it ready for me
> 
> ...the paper was off, but there was a nice layer of clay paste remaining on the walls.
> 
> [the stripper] felt the walls were ready for him if he were going to paint.


My "Strip To Hang" procedure is _exactly_ the same as my "Strip To Paint"
This project was ready for neither



daArch said:


> At one point I did ask if he was a member of PDCA and had read their standards.


Hahahahahaaaa....


daArch said:


> I just wanted to make sure that there wasn't a note I never received from the manufacturers recommending that professional painters should paint over paste.


Only in "The Hack's Guide To Painting" (available from NE1CanB-A-Painter Press)


daArch said:


> (BTW, we use *PASTE* not glue)


Well then, I guess you didn't do the original 'hanging' on Senator Danforth's house in Oyster Harbor
One bear of a stripper, I had three separate and independant labs* confirm that a "construction adhesive" marketed under the name "Liquid Nails" was used to adhere the wall coverings I (eventually) removed



daArch said:


> Maybe it's a cultural thing. Maybe that's how they do it in Brazil. Or maybe he couldn't afford to be thorough, and I can't afford to take chances.


No, just a Hack
..well...maybe "just didn't know any better" would be kinder
Regardless, in a case like this the specs of the pro one is prepping for should be followed to the letter
If the Strip To Hang contractor blew it, it's his animal to eat and his problem to fix

*OK, only kidding about the labs, but dang it sure seemed like it was Liquid Nails


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## painting247 (Mar 18, 2009)

wash, scrape, wash, scrape, wash.....that's a mess to get off.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

I am not sure how much paste residue is left on the walls for those folks who prime over it, whether it be Gardz or an oil primer, but I am fearful of ANY residue left. I know Gardz says (is it still on the label?) that it can be used on top of paste residue and I think Shieldz does also, but still, I do not trust manufacturers' claims. AND I have seen a job (by another) where the Gardz applied over residue paste failed and Zinsser did not honor their product claims. 

Now, as to being a bear to wash off paste, be it clear or clay, there are techniques that make it quite simple - - and definitely quicker than putting up new rock.

First, soak the paper until the paste has been softened - don't spray and immediately scrape. Let the stripping solution do its job. I've seen some stubborn paper that has taken a few hours to fully re-wet the paste. Be patient and keep the paper moist. Do not let it dry.

Strip one or maybe two strips with a wallpaper stripping blade. You know the ones with the four inch razor blade in it (Being careful not to gouge the walls). Then, DO NOT allow the paste behind those strips to dry. Spray that area (if necessary) and scrub the wall with a teflon scrub pad. I like the 3M Scotch-Brite Grill Scrub with a handle:










Others will buy a large floor scrubbing pad and cut it down to a usable size. Whatever floats your boat. 

Wash and rinse that section and then continue to strip and wash the next strip or two. And make sure to periodically spray the room to keep the paper wet. 

The mistake many make is they strip the paper without washing the paste off, so by the time they are ready to wash the paste off the wall, it has dried and needs re-wetting again. This literally doubles the time for the job. 

Stripping can be tedious, but with sound techniques it doesn't have to be made more difficult.

If the paper has been installed with an inappropriate adhesive, like liquid nails  , VOV (vinyl over vinyl), or 3M 77, then just toss a grenade in the room.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

CLARIFICATION:

The above was for a normal paper paper. If it is a paper backed vinyl (PBV), or an acrylic coated paper or even a PAINTED paper, the moisture will not want to penetrate the surface.

Some thicker PBV's will allow the vinyl to be pulled off the paper backing by hand, and then stripping the thin paper backing is REAL easy, as described above.

Some of the tinner PBV's or coated paper will need the surface busted through to allow moisture to penetrate. The perforating tools, like a "Paper Tiger" are essentially useless, and when used with a heavy hand will score the wall.

I put a piece of 36 grit in my palm sander and fairly quickly buzz the surface. This works for vinyl, acrylic, and paint. I then vacuum up the dust before spraying.


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## deluxe (Nov 30, 2008)

:thumbup:


summertime14 said:


> I usually strip, scrape heavy glue off, wash and scrub walls, let dry, do any necessary patching and sanding, then prime with coverstain (quick dry) and paint. I use oil primer because in the past have seen streaks come through the finish from the glue, even though all visible glue was washed off. I really don't mind stripping wallpaper. Its not that hard if you do it right, and most homeowners hate doing it, so they don't mind paying me to do it.



that's the way we always do it.


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## summertime14 (May 4, 2009)

I don't like the paper tiger either. I buy floor sanding paper if the stripper won't penetrate the paper.


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## Macsimus (Jun 24, 2008)

Bill, you are preaching to the choir here. If you keep any wall paper wet long enough, it will come off easily. I never use anything but hot water, and have run into only a few real difficult strips. I use a 6" mud knife to do the majority of my "paste" removal, not one of those 4" scrapers. Then I scrub with a scotch pad (not the grill scrubber you showed, just the green part) and rinse with a sponge. I absolutely cringe when I see a paper tiger. How many times have you told your help "Let the water do the work."? Or "Wet it again."?


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Macsimus said:


> Bill, you are preaching to the choir here. If you keep any wall paper wet long enough, it will come off easily. I never use anything but hot water, and have run into only a few real difficult strips. I use a 6" mud knife to do the majority of my "paste" removal, not one of those 4" scrapers. Then I scrub with a scotch pad (not the grill scrubber you showed, just the green part) and rinse with a sponge. I absolutely cringe when I see a paper tiger. How many times have you told your help "Let the water do the work."? Or "Wet it again."?


 
The above high lighted statement is just plain wrong, you obviously have not stripped enough paper.


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

So many variables. If the primer underneath is poor, if you keep the paper wet too long it will eat up the mud and rock paper. Timing is always critical. 

On the sandpaper the surface dept- I recently found that on the lighter painted or vinyl papers, a belt sander strip with 40 grit holds up pretty well. I don't put it on a sander, just tear of a hand piece and go to town. Less mess than a sander.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

chrisn said:


> The above high lighted statement is just plain wrong, you obviously have not stripped enough paper.


Chris, as we know, no one statement is true for all situations. I do think the generalzation of letting the paper soak long enough is sound.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

daArch said:


> Chris, as we know, no one statement is true for all situations. I do think the generalzation of letting the paper soak long enough is sound.


 Oh, I agree with that but will it ALL come off EASILY, I think not.:no:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

chrisn said:


> Oh, I agree with that but will it ALL come off EASILY, I think not.:no:


:thumbup:


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## Macsimus (Jun 24, 2008)

"The above high lighted statement is just plain wrong, you obviously have not stripped enough paper."

You obviously have some issue(s). I have stripped plenty of paper. I am confident I know more than you.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Macsimus said:


> "The above high lighted statement is just plain wrong, you obviously have not stripped enough paper."
> 
> You obviously have some issue(s). I have stripped plenty of paper. I am confident I know more than you.


 
Yes, I have plenty of issues, more than enough, but if you can substantiate this quote

" If you keep any wall paper wet long enough, it will come off easily."

I will bow:notworthy: too your ultimate wisdom:yes:and knowledge.:blink:


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## Macsimus (Jun 24, 2008)

Chrisn, I don't understand why you are so confrontational. If you read my original post it says "I never use anything but hot water, and have run into only a few real difficult strips", clearly implying there are exceptions. Relax buddy. Ok, you are the best wall paper stripper ever. Feel better?


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