# Stix failure



## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

We have a job going and ran into a horror show on the trim. The old paint is oil based, we light sanded, de glossed with Krud cutter deglossing, applied Stix and topped it off with 2 coats of regal select.

1 week later the paint is coming off in sheets. Even trim we only applied the Stix to is peeling. We are in the process of stripping all the paint off the wood work. We are using Zinzer coverstain now.


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## jr.sr. painting (Dec 6, 2013)

Sorry to hear about your pitfall with the latex bonding primer. We always use coverstain for inter oil conversion. We're always upfront with customers of the odor and how it lingers. There is simply nothing that can match the bonding properties or sand ability prior to topcoat. Cover stank first and you won't touch it again


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

cdpainting said:


> We have a job going and ran into a horror show on the trim. The old paint is oil based, we light sanded, de glossed with Krud cutter deglossing, applied Stix and topped it off with 2 coats of regal select.
> 
> 1 week later the paint is coming off in sheets. Even trim we only applied the Stix to is peeling. We are in the process of stripping all the paint off the wood work. We are using Zinzer coverstain now.


I suspect the Krudd Kutter had an affect on the Stix WB primer. I've come across WB primers that don't do well over hydrocarbons.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Although I just read that the Krud Kutter may not contain hydrocarbons, the surfactant, ethoxylated alcohol, can extract hydrocarbons from a solid surface. I'm wondering if something in the Stix was not compatible.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Did you use the no-rinse Krud Kutter? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

Jmayspaint said:


> Did you use the no-rinse Krud Kutter?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes but we still wiped with damp rag.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

CApainter said:


> Although I just read that the Krud Kutter may not contain hydrocarbons, the surfactant, ethoxylated alcohol, can extract hydrocarbons from a solid surface. I'm wondering if something in the Stix was not compatible.


I'm wondering if there was some sort of household cleaner used on this wood work that the krud cutter didn't remove


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I've been trying to get the online TDS for Krud Kutter gloss off, but can't.

I know there is a tendency to treat all de glossers equally. For example, there were de glossing products that would immediately soften the existing coating, giving a window of less than fifteen minutes to paint over. Then there were other products, like floods liquid sand paper, that required a dry time before applying paint over it. 

I believe Krud Kutter does contain the surfactants ethoxylated alcohol and sodium metasilicate pentahydrate that contribute to a low surface tension, allowing a coating to adhere to an existing coating. 

I'm just wondering if there are coatings more sensitive to a less dry Krud Kutter liquid sander, than others.


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## loaded brush (Dec 27, 2007)

CApainter said:


> I suspect the Krudd Kutter had an affect on the Stix WB primer. I've come across WB primers that don't do well over hydrocarbons.


Totally agree. Krud Kutter should have been _*thoroughly*_ washed off.


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## Tonyg (Dec 9, 2007)

If you're using Stix then IMO chemical de-glossing after sanding is not necessary and is the probable reason for product failure.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

There are two doors we just painted after a light sand. Same exact thing is happening. I'm shifting away from the krud maybe being an issue. We have a BM rep coming by next week.

Right now this is on is. If we can prove its the old wood work maybe I can get the ho to pay half the labor. Two days scraping the failing paint off with a day or three more days left.


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## Damon T (Nov 22, 2008)

Boy that's a weird one! Hard to imagine what the deal is since even the doors with no gloss off have problems. I would get that Stix tested by the BM lab.


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## PaintMaker (Apr 1, 2016)

Many surface contaminants do not wash off easily and some will rise through a wet paint film and settle on the surface once it dries, ready to ruin the next coat.

Have you considered that all of the trim may have been "polished" with some kind of wax solution?


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## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

cdpainting said:


> There are two doors we just painted after a light sand. Same exact thing is happening. I'm shifting away from the krud maybe being an issue. We have a BM rep coming by next week.
> 
> Right now this is on is. If we can prove its the old wood work maybe I can get the ho to pay half the labor. Two days scraping the failing paint off with a day or three more days left.




Is it peeling off to bare wood or down to the original paint?


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

jacob33 said:


> Is it peeling off to bare wood or down to the original paint?


Down to original paint.
We have all the paint stripped off, we are going to sand it again and oil prime this time.

The HO wants to clean the wood work before we paint it again. Ummm. This is why the paint failed already.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

cdpainting said:


> I'm wondering if there was some sort of household cleaner used on this wood work that the krud cutter didn't remove


Sounds a lot like some peeling issues I've seen because Murphy's oil soup was used on the trim. Things like Pledge will do that as well. Pledge can actually get so hard over a period of time that you have to use vinyl floor stripper to get it off.


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## jacob33 (Jun 2, 2009)

Oil prime should solve it but I dont think I would let them clean it they need to stay away while you paint. I have never been a fan of waterbased bonding primers. I know some have incredible grip but they do not seem to fair as well with possible contaminants


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