# Emerald Urethane over Oil?



## PaintStud

The SW salesperson told me I can use the new Emerald Urethane Enamel Trim (waterborne) over _oil-based paint_ without priming or preparation. This sounds 'ify' to me. Anyone tried this?


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## MikeCalifornia

Ask them if they have ever tried it? Emerald is a modified oil hybrid. It will go over oil based enamel, but I would clean and sand as usual.


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## Tprice2193

I put it over some medium stained polyurethaned crown and base in a kitchen with only cleaning. Adhered well used two coats of semigloss. So far so good. Its in one of my rentals so I didn't mind experimenting.


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## ThreeSistersPainting

I do not know much about the urethane product, but you should always prep your trim for paint. Sherwin is a retail store with sales personel, they are not painters. I would use that product like any other enamel I would spray.


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## DeanV

You need to clean and sand for prep at least. Do not use the satin. Use the semigloss. 

The satin is the flattest, ugliest satin enamel I have ever seen.

It seems soft too, but may cure enough with time. Not hard after 24 hours. We ended up doing the semigloss for the second coat.


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## Woodco

I dont know about the Emerald, but the Cabinet Coat Urethane sticks to anything.


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## DeanV

I prefer CabinetCoat to the emerald urethane as well.


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## Ubercorey

I recently did a job with this paint. I used the low luster. It was terrible. It didn't cure well after a week. Came off with a fingernail. And the finish was rough like ceiling paint. The Behr enamel the client used one the downstairs trim herself was waaaay better and I ended up finishing the job with it. Maybe a bad can, so I'm gonna get some comped to me to test in my house.


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## DeanV

Ubercorey said:


> I recently did a job with this paint. I used the low luster. It was terrible. It didn't cure well after a week. Came off with a fingernail. And the finish was rough like ceiling paint. The Behr enamel the client used one the downstairs trim herself was waaaay better and I ended up finishing the job with it. Maybe a bad can, so I'm gonna get some comped to me to test in my house.


That was our experience too, except we second coated with the semigloss the next day once we saw how the satin looked. We probably won’t touch the product again in either sheen. I do think it cures to a hard finish eventually, just a slow cure.


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## Mr Smith

DeanV said:


> I prefer CabinetCoat to the emerald urethane as well.


CC sprays well if you lay the doors flat. I had issues with runs on the vertical surface of the boxes. I checked back and it didn't run after 15 minutes, but returned the next day with several runs I had to sand out and paint over. It definitely has a learning curve much like Advance.


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## jacob33

I do not like the emerald urethane myself. I would just use regular emerald semi gloss if I was going to use one of the two. 

I know emerald seems to stick to anything. I did a test once in an apartment on the inside of a closet, I put emerald straight over oil semi gloss no prep other than cleaning and by the next day you could not get it off. I did cover stain in the same closet and while it adhered fairly well you could get it off the next day I would not recommend it but I was just testing it and it has incredible adhesion.


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## mDUB562

I wouldn't trust it without prep. You need a clean, dull, and dry surface. With oil based products you are always trying to achieve a mechanical bond. This means that you have to etch the surface and make sure it is dull. As long as this is the case then the hybrid will stick. You can think of the product like an oil based molecule suspended in water... once the water evaporates it leaves an oil based finish that will mechanically adhere to properly prepped oil based finishes.


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## Michigan Chrome

The Emerald Urethane definitely has a place in my practice...I've sprayed roughly 10 gallons since it was first released a few months back. It flows beautifully through my airless sprayer - and I've also finally figured out how to get desired result through my fuji HVLP. (1.8mm Tip 15% dil Ammonia Free Glass) 

First time I used it was over All Surface Enamel on a door (w/2 coats Bin). Finish was defect free but client didn't like. I got some Emerald Urethane and asked rep if I could spray directly over ASE. He says no problem.

Sprayed it. No sags. Looked perfect. Then about 300 little pimples presented on each face of door. Graco blamed SW and SW blamed Graco. Rep agreed to test my batch.


Then I started spraying same batch through my Fuji HVLP and got a defect free finish, when applied over a freshly primed substrate. So I figured out the hard way. I find it very forgiving when it comes to Sags. I can get extremely greedy with speed of my passes and it holds well. Its build is thin to modest, at best...and will expose a 150 grit "scratch" on certain substrates....So I absolutely love the rich finish but have to apply 2 coats BIN, apply a heavy coat of Premium W&W which builds depth bigtime, and then I spray two coats of the Urethane. If you spray this over 2 coats of Bin only, the finish appearance is inferior to that of 2 coats of bin plus Premium W&W. Furthermore, I have sprayed some other vendors water based primers that I know are good in place of Premium W&W and it doesn't look as sexy.

What I find extremely curious about SW's positioning of this product (Trim & Exterior) is that it doesn't like water....at all. After 7 days, i tried using both warm tap water as well as Warm Tap Water w/ Blue Dawn to clean some pesky construction dust. It left marks where microfiber towel was...and the marks don't resolve. 

So now I've been topcoating my doors and casing lately with a 2 part poly (Ultra Matte) over the Semi Gloss and it looks badass and is bulletproof. The first time I top coated it was 24 hours after my finish coat. Widespread poly cracks everywhere which I assume was out-gassing but damn, 24 hours. So now I wait 72 hours and no issues.


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## LRS

DeanV said:


> You need to clean and sand for prep at least. Do not use the satin. Use the semigloss.
> 
> The satin is the flattest, ugliest satin enamel I have ever seen.
> 
> It seems soft too, but may cure enough with time. Not hard after 24 hours. We ended up doing the semigloss for the second coat.


Semi Gloss feels dry, like touching chalk.


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## Holland

LRS said:


> Semi Gloss feels dry, like touching chalk.


Welcome to PT. This website has a habit of recommending old threads, so make sure to check if the thread is still active. 

That said, are you using Emerald Urethane? Curious what your thoughts are about it? 
I have been using it this week, and have mixed feelings.


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## LRS

Hi. I started using the SW Emerald Urethane in semi gloss. Won't be using it for long. I hate the way it feels and for a semi gloss, it's more like a satin. Debating if I will switch to BM satin impervo, cabinet coat or SW Emerald Urehtane in gloss. I've never used cabinet coat and see it mentioned a lot on this site as being able to use over oil based paint. Painting base boadrs, door trim and eventually doors that are currently painted with Behr oil.


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## Holland

LRS said:


> Hi. I started using the SW Emerald Urethane in semi gloss. Won't be using it for long. I hate the way it feels and for a semi gloss, it's more like a satin. Debating if I will switch to BM satin impervo, cabinet coat or SW Emerald Urehtane in gloss. I've never used cabinet coat and see it mentioned a lot on this site as being able to use over oil based paint. Painting base boadrs, door trim and eventually doors that are currently painted with Behr oil.


I used some this week, both spraying and rolling. 

I did not like the rolled at all- customer insisted on Satin, and it felt very chalky. 
The sprayed looked very nice, was dull, but looked flawless. Definitely sprays better than it rolls. 
Not super impressed yet. 

How do you feel about the Pro Classic Waterborn Alkyd? I thought that was halfway decent, but only tried it once. Rolled and sprayed almost the same results.


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## juanvaldez

If I used the pro classic it was the alkyd. I’ve switched to the Emerald urethane though this year and have had good results. Same prep as you would normally do. 2 coats without a doubt. Haven’t had any problems arise or callbacks either, which is the real test!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## PPD

Granted this is based on training as decorative/faux finisher...but the following rules were GRILLED into my head during training:
1. OB + OB =  
2. WB + OB=  
3. OB + WB = Must Degrease (Prep). No Exceptions.


Can’t speak to ur salesman but can offer a story from Pro-Store (not regular SW):

Was waiting for order pickup when I overheard a man ask “can this be used over OB stain?” ....Employee paused for so long it got my attention so I glanced down the isle & noticed they were discussing modified exterior coating.

After scanning the product info the employee told him it shouldn’t be an issue. I asked if OB stain had been applied recently & if it was outdoors? 

Was new wrap around porch that had been stained when wife decided she wanted the railing & posts painted white. Contractor told him they’d used SW deck stain & referred him to SW to ask about compatible paint.

Said to think about it like cooking: 
Add OIL to pan hot WATER = Fine & Dandy
Add WATER to pan hot OIL = oil rejects the water causing it to pop/explode....

Explained coatings work in similar fashion so if oil base isn’t properly prepped it can result in adhesion issues compounded by effect of weather & moisture on outdoor wood. Gave him advice on what I’d do & went back to browsing. 

When the “emoloyee” I’d so casual contradicted was checking me out a bit later I learned he was actually a district store manager....thankfully he wasn’t the least bit offended & asked if I’d consider working for him


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## 503rdIN

Michigan Chrome said:


> The Emerald Urethane definitely has a place in my practice...I've sprayed roughly 10 gallons since it was first released a few months back. It flows beautifully through my airless sprayer - and I've also finally figured out how to get desired result through my fuji HVLP. (1.8mm Tip 15% dil Ammonia Free Glass)
> 
> First time I used it was over All Surface Enamel on a door (w/2 coats Bin). Finish was defect free but client didn't like. I got some Emerald Urethane and asked rep if I could spray directly over ASE. He says no problem.
> 
> Sprayed it. No sags. Looked perfect. Then about 300 little pimples presented on each face of door. Graco blamed SW and SW blamed Graco. Rep agreed to test my batch.
> 
> 
> Then I started spraying same batch through my Fuji HVLP and got a defect free finish, when applied over a freshly primed substrate. So I figured out the hard way. I find it very forgiving when it comes to Sags. I can get extremely greedy with speed of my passes and it holds well. Its build is thin to modest, at best...and will expose a 150 grit "scratch" on certain substrates....So I absolutely love the rich finish but have to apply 2 coats BIN, apply a heavy coat of Premium W&W which builds depth bigtime, and then I spray two coats of the Urethane. If you spray this over 2 coats of Bin only, the finish appearance is inferior to that of 2 coats of bin plus Premium W&W. Furthermore, I have sprayed some other vendors water based primers that I know are good in place of Premium W&W and it doesn't look as sexy.
> 
> What I find extremely curious about SW's positioning of this product (Trim & Exterior) is that it doesn't like water....at all. After 7 days, i tried using both warm tap water as well as Warm Tap Water w/ Blue Dawn to clean some pesky construction dust. It left marks where microfiber towel was...and the marks don't resolve.
> 
> So now I've been topcoating my doors and casing lately with a 2 part poly (Ultra Matte) over the Semi Gloss and it looks badass and is bulletproof. The first time I top coated it was 24 hours after my finish coat. Widespread poly cracks everywhere which I assume was out-gassing but damn, 24 hours. So now I wait 72 hours and no issues.


 how much did you thin the SW-EU to spray out the fuji? Add any flo?


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## Charles G

I recommend using a LIQUID DEGLOSSER first, to remove any poly/stain/varnish/etc, then scuff sanding with 220 grit just for adhesion. You won’t get the ugly scratches and you’ll be able to prime with 1 coat then paint 2 coats with the SW Emerald Urethane. 



Michigan Chrome said:


> The Emerald Urethane definitely has a place in my practice...I've sprayed roughly 10 gallons since it was first released a few months back. It flows beautifully through my airless sprayer - and I've also finally figured out how to get desired result through my fuji HVLP. (1.8mm Tip 15% dil Ammonia Free Glass)
> 
> First time I used it was over All Surface Enamel on a door (w/2 coats Bin). Finish was defect free but client didn't like. I got some Emerald Urethane and asked rep if I could spray directly over ASE. He says no problem.
> 
> Sprayed it. No sags. Looked perfect. Then about 300 little pimples presented on each face of door. Graco blamed SW and SW blamed Graco. Rep agreed to test my batch.
> 
> 
> Then I started spraying same batch through my Fuji HVLP and got a defect free finish, when applied over a freshly primed substrate. So I figured out the hard way. I find it very forgiving when it comes to Sags. I can get extremely greedy with speed of my passes and it holds well. Its build is thin to modest, at best...and will expose a 150 grit "scratch" on certain substrates....So I absolutely love the rich finish but have to apply 2 coats BIN, apply a heavy coat of Premium W&W which builds depth bigtime, and then I spray two coats of the Urethane. If you spray this over 2 coats of Bin only, the finish appearance is inferior to that of 2 coats of bin plus Premium W&W. Furthermore, I have sprayed some other vendors water based primers that I know are good in place of Premium W&W and it doesn't look as sexy.
> 
> What I find extremely curious about SW's positioning of this product (Trim & Exterior) is that it doesn't like water....at all. After 7 days, i tried using both warm tap water as well as Warm Tap Water w/ Blue Dawn to clean some pesky construction dust. It left marks where microfiber towel was...and the marks don't resolve.
> 
> So now I've been topcoating my doors and casing lately with a 2 part poly (Ultra Matte) over the Semi Gloss and it looks badass and is bulletproof. The first time I top coated it was 24 hours after my finish coat. Widespread poly cracks everywhere which I assume was out-gassing but damn, 24 hours. So now I wait 72 hours and no issues.


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## jennifertemple

I do not understand the warnings about prepping, IE clean and sand. Don't we all prep before applying new paint? Heck, I sand between every application of paint. (I thought it was part of the common law! )


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