# flat paint flashing



## Mark (Oct 1, 2008)

Ok. Got a rental house a customer wanted me to paint. We sprayed on 2 coats of a sandy white colored flat paint put out by Ace Hardware (yeah i know Ace is not the best but it's the guys rental house and he doesn't want to spend a lot of money) so we spray the 2nd coat on it and have trails on top and bottom of pattern. We adjust pressure, change tips and filter, still not much difference. When it drys down you can still see the trails and some spots are flashing where we used no spackle at all (and its flat paint!). I know your supposed to prime spackle and drywall mud before paint and I had the guys do that as well. I don't have years and years of experience painting but I have a little and I need to trouble shoot this. I am using a zip spray 1700 airless put out by Graco and tried using 415 and 515 size tips but still not much difference. Finally out of sheer desperation I put on a 517 tip stood back and just misted over the walls to get rid of the trails. It got rid of the trails but still some flashing. I will end up just rolling on a coat to correct the situation but I would like to know how to deal with this next time. I need some help here.


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

Inexpensive paints with a high percentage of clay content tend to build unevenly if they aren't back rolled.
Even flat paints have a sheen.


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## nEighter (Nov 14, 2008)

I have always heard you need to prime caulking when using flats.. otherwise they flash bad.

EDIT: oh you are talking about just the paint.. backrolling would be your best bet.. like Wise said.


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## jack pauhl (Nov 10, 2008)

This isnt paint related. His guns shooting trails then his attempt to fix it by standing back is causing uneven dry patterns. Somethings not right with the pressure for the paint used or tip. Are you using the stock ASM 300 Contractor Spray Gun?


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

Mark said:


> so we spray the 2nd coat on it and have trails on top and bottom of pattern. We adjust pressure, change tips and filter, still not much difference. When it drys down you can still see the trails and some spots are flashing where we used no spackle at all (and its flat paint!).





jack pauhl said:


> This isnt paint related. His guns shooting trails then his attempt to fix it by standing back is causing uneven dry patterns.


With cheap paint you have to back roll the slop after spraying it or else it will flash and look horrible, most flats will.
I have a feeling he is talking about the lines that are _supposed _to be there so you can overlap the spray pattern 50% with accuracy.
Oh god I hope he isn't talking about that...

I am hoping that it is a matter of "fingering" where the paint sprays as lines instead of a uniform pattern. But if _every _tip is doing it...

Dude, I seriously hope he isn't talking about the factory installed pattern...


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Sounds like to me that back rolling could of prevented this problem.


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## Mantis (Aug 4, 2008)

Sounds like a fingering issue. Cranking up the pressure should help even things out when you spray. start at 2000psi with a 415 tip and build from there. Otherwise, even if you are getting trails from your tip, backrolling will cure the flashing problem regardless.


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

jack pauhl said:


> This isnt paint related. His guns shooting trails then his attempt to fix it by standing back is causing uneven dry patterns. Somethings not right with the pressure for the paint used or tip. Are you using the stock ASM 300 Contractor Spray Gun?


 
:yes:


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## JCM (Jan 6, 2009)

You are spraying garbage material so put a big tip in like a 6-21or23 and spray into wet. What I mean is, if your spraying left to right hold the gun so it is spraying toward the left. Oh jeez how do you explain this? While your spraying in a clock ward direction turn your body so you are looking at your last pass and the paint will cast over the pass you just made. I'm screwing this up here. Turn your wrist and no in and out. still a bad explanation. I can show you if you Sub it out to me, lol. Joking, just back roll it and you won't even know you had a green horn behind the trigger, also try a bigger tip 5-17's are a bit small.


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## Mantis (Aug 4, 2008)

JCM said:


> 5-17's are a bit small.


I dont know if I'd exactly call a 517 "small". 517 is the biggest tip we use, generally. and thats for blowing primer on drywall.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

NEPS.US said:


> :yes:


Neps your going soft on us, you know he needs a 6-21 tip


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## NEPS.US (Feb 6, 2008)

johnpaint said:


> Neps your going soft on us, you know he needs a 6-21 tip


If you dont know how to spray wall then the tip really doesnt matter. He doesnt have a clue, so he should of been back rolling.


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

Why is it that all of the critical areas I paint are always right by a huge light source? I am thinking of the huge, smooth ceilings with windows or lighting that will show every flaw.
It took me a lot longer than I want to admit but I finally trained my lazy and stubborn self to back roll every ceiling because I really *hate* doing them, and I hate _*RE~DOING*_ them even more.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

NEPS.US said:


> If you dont know how to spray wall then the tip really doesnt matter. He doesnt have a clue, so he should of been back rolling.


That's right and he might have a worn out tip, or about a hundred other things.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

WisePainter said:


> Why is it that all of the critical areas I paint are always right by a huge light source? I am thinking of the huge, smooth ceilings with windows or lighting that will show every flaw.
> It took me a lot longer than I want to admit but I finally trained my lazy and stubborn self to back roll every ceiling because I really *hate* doing them, and I hate _*RE~DOING*_ them even more.


Well it's a lot easier it you have someone helping you Wise.where is that 10 dollar an hour guy with strong arms


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

Mark said:


> have trails on top and bottom of pattern.


He is describing the two lines that are _supposed_ to be there so you can see where your overlap line is with your pattern.
If it was fingering he would describe a spray pattern consisting of many lines, or streaking.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

I understand, but I have had fingers on both ends before also.


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

I can't handle this anymore...the OP isn't even a painter, and he used *ACE *flat on a rental as a favor for a friend.

great, i am now insane.
thanks thread.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

WisePainter said:


> I can't handle this anymore...the OP isn't even a painter, and he used *ACE *flat on a rental as a favor for a friend.
> 
> great, i am now insane.
> thanks thread.


That's what I like about you Wise, you are the type of guy I would love to work with, You have a sense of humor.


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## Mantis (Aug 4, 2008)

johnpaint said:


> That's what I like about you Wise, you are the type of guy I would love to work with, You have a sense of humor.


Painting is SERIOUS BUSINESS


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## roccofella (Mar 1, 2009)

Back roll it and you can spray as bad as youd like and have no problems....


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

If I had a nickel for every time the words "back roll" were used in this thread after post #2, I would have retired yesterday.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

WisePainter said:


> If I had a nickel for every time the words "back roll" were used in this thread after post #2, I would have retired yesterday.


Step back to the first time you heard the term backroll, did you know what it meant?


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

johnpaint said:


> Step back to the first time you heard the term backroll, did you know what it meant?


I didn't then, but I do now.

man do i ever.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

I know, I just thru that out there confound you.


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## Mark (Oct 1, 2008)

Ok cool. So backrolling is the solution, and even flats have some sheen, and yes it could be the factory installed pattern and I may be green but even if it is I don't want that pattern in a dry finish for my customer to see. This is what I like about Paint Talk. I got my solution in a matter of hours. Some of the veterans here can make you feel like a DUMB AZZ but if you can weed through that without taking it to personally you can learn a lot. Thanks guys for the help.


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## johnpaint (Sep 20, 2008)

Mark said:


> Ok cool. So backrolling is the solution, and even flats have some sheen, and yes it could be the factory installed pattern and I may be green but even if it is I don't want that pattern in a dry finish for my customer to see. This is what I like about Paint Talk. I got my solution in a matter of hours. Some of the veterans here can make you feel like a DUMB AZZ but if you can weed through that without taking it to personally you can learn a lot. Thanks guys for the help.


Mark, there is some good stuff here, there some guy's here I would love to work with. I think we all mean well, sometimes it just come out a little raw.The problem you have come have come from so many things it's hard to know without being there, but back rolling would help for sure. just have someone follow behind you as you spray.


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## Last Craftsman (Dec 5, 2008)

WisePainter said:


> If I had a nickel for every time the words "back roll" were used in this thread after post #2, I would have retired yesterday.


In that case, please allow me to contribute my "two cents" to the topic of this thread:

BACK-ROLL.

Wait a minute, everyone here is giving their two cents, and wisepainter gets a nickel for each post? How does that work?


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## michael tust (Mar 6, 2009)

NEPS.US said:


> If you dont know how to spray wall then the tip really doesnt matter. He doesnt have a clue, so he should of been back rolling.


Well Put !!!!


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## JCM (Jan 6, 2009)

Mantis said:


> I dont know if I'd exactly call a 517 "small". 517 is the biggest tip we use, generally. and thats for blowing primer on drywall.


 Let me rephrase, For an inexperienced guy trying to spray without back rolling this tip may not be providing the material to the substrate as desired. a 5-17 in front of a seasoned painter will be able to apply it correctly and won't need the buffer supplied by the excess material that a larger tip will provide. There is an art to spraying and if you stand to far back on one pass and to close the next there will be a noticeable difference using a smaller tip. Same scenario with a larger tip will be a little bit more forgiving because of the mil is larger and mistakes are less noticeable.


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## tntpainting (Apr 3, 2008)

if you use crap it will look like it


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