# Opinion on no prime exterior paint?



## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

The snow is thick and the weather cold....so I'm thinking about some summer exterior jobs. 

I use Aura on interiors all the time. I mostly work in older homes and always have patching and skimming that I'm painting over. I'm very impressed with this product and its a HUGE time saver.

Not all the same rules apply to exteriors though. I have one exterior job this summer that the wood trim around windows is bare and raw, dried out. Of course my experience says a primer then top coats. The BM sales people say, "no need, Aura, no problem", but I'm skeptical. 

The clapboard on this home is that circa 1960's hard pressed wood clapboard. Especially on the south wall they haven't had success with paint adhering to it. I would be temped to try Aura on this clapboard siding...thoughts? 

Can this non-priming product be trusted? Should I stick to my comfort zone of prime and top coats?

BTW- if I prime I wouldn't use [email protected] $90 a gallon! Naaa.


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## PaintMe201 (Sep 16, 2009)

how about mad dog primer


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

Thanks for the response, but I'm looking for first hand experience on self proclaimed non-priming exterior paint.


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## Dbo (Nov 29, 2009)

I would use a primer over the bare wood to seal it again. Then u have no worries.


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## FL.BM.DEALER (Apr 2, 2009)

Your BM reps are telling you wrong. If you read on the can of Aura Ext. It is necessary to prime bare, raw, dried out wood unless the previous coating is in decent shape without chaulky residue or peeling. Tell them they may want to read the specs on the product they sell, one more time.


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

FL.BM.DEALER said:


> Your BM reps are telling you wrong. If you read on the can of Aura Ext. It is necessary to prime bare, raw, dried out wood unless the previous coating is in decent shape without chaulky residue or peeling. Tell them they may want to read the specs on the product they sell, one more time.


You are absolutely right. I was at the store today, while my paint was being mixed I read the can. Took the owner to task on it a bit and he said he misunderstood my original question....hmmmm. I like BM stuff, but I don't exactly trust the owner and persons working there as 'selling' seems to be priority. 

Thanks for the input.


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## pollardpainting (Jan 26, 2010)

Sherwin Williams Duration. You can spot prime and top coat and its alot cheaper.


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

pollardpainting said:


> Sherwin Williams Duration. You can spot prime and top coat and its alot cheaper.


Thanks, I have to go talk with those guys. I have accounts with BM and ICI, but not with SW, but I've seen quite a few positive comments on this forum regarding SW so I'll go check it out. 

Thanks.


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## tntpainting (Apr 3, 2008)

im with the guy that said duration ext . have used it lots and spot prime theareas that need it with a brush let it dry and go right back over it awesome stuff ! its not cheap though upwards of 40 $


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## [email protected] (Mar 1, 2008)

My feelings on one thing do all products is this. In life you can do one thing at a time great but it gets real hard to do five thing at once real great. Or a differnt way to look at it is this. I can juggle 3 ball at once but never master 5 ball at once. :jester:even though I hung my hat with people that could.


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

I hear what you are saying and its very valid. 

Technology does change things though and it's important to keep checking and trying it out. 

In this case it's clear that my original question could have been answered if I would have done my own due diligence and read the label and not just listened to the store rep.


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## Woody (Jan 7, 2010)

oil base primer on weather side(s), .... apply Latex finish.... They will call you back, and the neighbors will have there house painted twice, to your "one"

Separate yourself from the competition... charge more for oil...get more quality customers.....ra....ra


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Yea duration is what you are looking for. Gloss can be a pita to work with on smooth surfaces because a wet edge can be really hard to keep, if you don't it will lap really bad.


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

straight_lines said:


> Yea duration is what you are looking for. Gloss can be a pita to work with on smooth surfaces because a wet edge can be really hard to keep, if you don't it will lap really bad.


Yup, yup..gotcha. 

Bummer is there isn't a SW store near by. Hopefully I can get done early tomorrow and go talk to the people there. 

Thanks


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## Diversers (Aug 2, 2009)

Sherwin Williams Duration is the best exterior pain on the market I've used it all and this stuff is the real deal.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Diversers said:


> Sherwin Williams Duration is the best exterior pain on the market I've used it all and this stuff is the real deal.


 
Could be, could be,I don't ever use it but if is such a pain,why would I:jester::whistling2:


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## capitalcity painting (Apr 28, 2008)

Duration WILL work. Your going to hear all the old timers tell you to use the oil primer with 2 top coats. Like you said things change with technology and Duration is works great. I have been using it for about 7 years now and no peeling on those old jobs. I live in a smaller city so yes I see these places on a regular bases and of course always look at them. Duration does dry really fast, pay attention to where the sun rises and sets and work accordingly to stay out of it.


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## Woody (Jan 7, 2010)

capitalcity painting said:


> Duration WILL work. Your going to hear all the old timers tell you to use the oil primer with 2 top coats. Like you said things change with technology and Duration is works great. I have been using it for about 7 years now and no peeling on those old jobs. I live in a smaller city so yes I see these places on a regular bases and of course always look at them. Duration does dry really fast, pay attention to where the sun rises and sets and work accordingly to stay out of it.


I'm not that old... well..I think ? I forget

Anyways... Your way will work on newer, rough ceder siding homes. Any home over 25-30 years old "I'm putting Oil Primer on it." I'll get an EASY 12 years on my spec's
I will spend less time, do a better job, AND make more money than you..FROM the same guy.

I'll use Duration... If I'M ONLY getting PAID for ONE coat.
"It won't last longer than 8 years" depends on location, and proper prep work.

Your not hurting anybody by doing it your way..not at all !!
My way is .."Better, because I'm older than you...lol.."


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## capitalcity painting (Apr 28, 2008)

Woody said:


> I'm not that old... well..I think ? I forget
> 
> Anyways... Your way will work on newer, rough ceder siding homes. Any home over 25-30 years old "I'm putting Oil Primer on it." I'll get an EASY 12 years on my spec's
> I will spend less time, do a better job, AND make more money than you..FROM the same guy.
> ...


Im not sure how your way is going to take less time when your priming and Im not. I also dont see how your getting more money. My way has also worked on those old homes you referred to for 7 years now and still looks great, so I should be expecting it start failing next year according to you. Also I dont know why everyone thinks Duration is a one coat job, I still apply two coats. How do you state things as facts when you have no idea how long it will actually last and how much money I make. I never said my way was better I just said it can be done because I do it all the time which is what the original poster was looking to hear.


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## Woody (Jan 7, 2010)

capitalcity painting said:


> Im not sure how your way is going to take less time when your priming and Im not. I also dont see how your getting more money. My way has also worked on those old homes you referred to for 7 years now and still looks great, so I should be expecting it start failing next year according to you. Also I dont know why everyone thinks Duration is a one coat job, I still apply two coats. How do you state things as facts when you have no idea how long it will actually last and how much money I make. I never said my way was better I just said it can be done because I do it all the time which is what the original poster was looking to hear.


I hope you become a millionaire this year !!


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## Diversers (Aug 2, 2009)

Seriously, guy's No bull, I've used berh, porter permanizer, and lowes primer and paint in one, and none of them compare or even comes close to Sherwin William Duration, it covers better, it blocks stains better, it sticks better, it even smells better (I'm joking on the last phrase), but seriously, I've painted houses (old houses 100 years and older) 6-7 years ago with this stuff and it looks like I painted it yesterday. It's the best on the market, I give it two thumbs up


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## Woody (Jan 7, 2010)

Diversers said:


> Seriously, guy's No bull, I've used berh, porter permanizer, and lowes primer and paint in one, and none of them compare or even comes close to Sherwin William Duration, it covers better, it blocks stains better, it sticks better, it even smells better (I'm joking on the last phrase), but seriously, I've painted houses (old houses 100 years and older) 6-7 years ago with this stuff and it looks like I painted it yesterday. It's the best on the market, I give it two thumbs up


come back in three more years...and tell us that again ?:no:


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## summertime14 (May 4, 2009)

Personally never had any trouble with duration. But its a personal issue I think. Use what you like and feel comfortable using. I am not a one brand guy. I use the product that best suites what I going to be doing. I would definately recommend it, but I can't really say its the best. When looking at a repaint it will be one of the first products I consider. If there is major peeling I feel more comfortable with a primer. Like peel bond. But if you just have a few spots just spot prime and keep moving. It also sticks to the pvc composite trim, and I really like that since a contractor I do work for almost always uses it on repair jobs. I like the satin finish. Wish they made quarts for doing front doors. Even dark colors are under fifty bucks which beats out the aura for price.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> My feelings on one thing do all products is this. In life you can do one thing at a time great but it gets real hard to do five thing at once real great. Or a differnt way to look at it is this. I can juggle 3 ball at once but never master 5 ball at once. :jester:even though I hung my hat with people that could.


WTF does that have to do with paint:blink:


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

Used Duration quite a bit last year and love it.


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

How long has Duration been on the market??


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

Five or more years.


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## summertime14 (May 4, 2009)

It has been on the market over five years I think its more like ten. I did a repaint this past fall where the house had been painted 8 years ago with duration. I used to think it was around five years until I did this job. My customer may have been wrong about the amount of time though


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## aaron61 (Apr 29, 2007)

summertime14 said:


> It has been on the market over five years I think its more like ten. I did a repaint this past fall where the house had been painted 8 years ago with duration. I used to think it was around five years until I did this job. My customer may have been wrong about the amount of time though


Why was it being repainted at 8 years???? just a color change???


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## Woody (Jan 7, 2010)

Just because a paint covers good,is more expensive, and is easy to work with....does not make it better than a tinted oil primer applied first.
If I apply a FULL tinted primer coat, then use an A-100, or an Acri-shield type product.... It will last a minimum of 12 years.(more like 15)
Therefore, after being in business awhile... "People talk, about MY great work"... and pay the extra 1000 or so bucks.

Since I'm opinionated ALSO... We can agree that all these systems are based on "there pocketbook" ?


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

Thanks for all the opinions. 

I'm going to give Duration a go on this job. The original post was about priming and Aura, but it was quickly dis-spelled as I didn't read the can before posting the question, but listened to the rep who said, "no prime, no problem." NOT correct.


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## capitalcity painting (Apr 28, 2008)

Woody said:


> come back in three more years...and tell us that again ?:no:


Your a ****


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## Woody (Jan 7, 2010)

capitalcity painting said:


> Your a ****


Don't you have some drywall work to do...in momma's bacement ?.... don't forget to cover your bed with plastic !


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## capitalcity painting (Apr 28, 2008)

A-100 is crap paint and your getting on us for using Duration. How in the world can you tell how fast our jobs will fail. You dont have a clue how we prep or what climate were in. Having said that even if our jobs failed in 10 years I think most of my customers would be happy with that considering the person before me used oil base primer and cheap latex that only lasted 4-5 years. But I forgot your the best in the world and get paid handfuls because of your name, are you related to Plain or Wise?


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## Woody (Jan 7, 2010)

capitalcity painting said:


> A-100 is crap paint and your getting on us for using Duration. How in the world can you tell how fast our jobs will fail. You dont have a clue how we prep or what climate were in. Having said that even if our jobs failed in 10 years I think most of my customers would be happy with that considering the person before me used oil base primer and cheap latex that only lasted 4-5 years. But I forgot your the best in the world and get paid handfuls because of your name, are you related to Plain or Wise?


Stop typing, ..before mom "get's mad"....and you won't get any dinner....bye, bye


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## capitalcity painting (Apr 28, 2008)

Woody said:


> Don't you have some drywall work to do...in momma's bacement ?.... don't forget to cover your bed with plastic !


Bitxh I live in a 350,000 house of my own and have for years. Dont hate on me because you cant adjust to the times, you dont know **** about me or how I paint so **** off


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## Woody (Jan 7, 2010)

capitalcity painting said:


> Bitxh I live in a 350,000 house of my own and have for years. Dont hate on me because you cant adjust to the times, you dont know **** about me or how I paint so **** off


You started it....and I played along,.... "out of complete bordom"

Settle down, before you "mess yourself"


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## capitalcity painting (Apr 28, 2008)

I didnt start anything with you, If you took offense because I said the old timers will insist on oil base primer then that is your fault not mine. The reason I said that was because all the older painters around my area insist on it and it doesnt work well around here just like oil base paint outside does horrible because of the big climate changes we have from day to day. The only time we use it outside here is if the roof leaked through to the soffit and left a bad waterstain. This is the last time Im responding to you cause I dont have the time talk to idiots, I get on here to help others and learn from others not get into it with bullies that think they know it all.


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## Woody (Jan 7, 2010)

capitalcity painting said:


> I didnt start anything with you, If you took offense because I said the old timers will insist on oil base primer then that is your fault not mine. The reason I said that was because all the older painters around my area insist on it and it doesnt work well around here just like oil base paint outside does horrible because of the big climate changes we have from day to day. The only time we use it outside here is if the roof leaked through to the soffit and left a bad waterstain. This is the last time Im responding to you cause I dont have the time talk to idiots, I get on here to help others and learn from others not get into it with bullies that think they know it all.


You started it on post #34...Bullie.

You could apply interior ceiling paint over that primer, and it would last five years.

Read your Duration paint can.... Apply to clean, dry, primed surface....anything else is make-believe...


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## summertime14 (May 4, 2009)

Did the repaint after 8 years because the trim was actually done with oil and was peeling. Only the siding was Duration. There were also some areas where the siding had to be replaced, I did not see it before the new sheets were hung so I don't know why. The previous painter had told the homeowner the oil was better for trim. I made the swith to Duration. It was a very easy repaint. Virtually no mold or mildew on the siding where the Duration was applied. There was a slight color change, one coat looked great. A little scraping and spot priming on the trim and two coats looked great.


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## creeje (Jun 23, 2014)

chrisn said:


> Could be, could be,I don't ever use it but if is such a pain,why would I:jester::whistling2:


15,000 comedians out of work...


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## Schmidt & Co. (Nov 6, 2008)

creeje said:


> 15,000 comedians out of work...


Interesting first post.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Schmidt & Co. said:


> Interesting first post.


 
kinda scary after 4 years


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## 6126 (May 9, 2010)

I can't believe I just read 3 pages of this :blink:


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## NACE (May 16, 2008)

My experience with Duration is mixed. Aura is self priming. I would use it as a primer except for the Semi Gloss. The big difference is the spread rate of Aura vs Duration. I get 250 sq ft per gallon vs 400-450 out of Aura.


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## Paint Pro CA (Jun 17, 2014)

Im still not sold on using self priming paints on bare exterior wood. 

We just did a heritage home with paint that was just starting to fail on all the windows and frames. Took everything down to bare with palm and belt sanders.

We were using Aura but I had the guys prime everything anyways just to be sure. Overkill perhaps but we have harsh winters and humid summers and the home is a show piece of the community and I want that paint job to last. That and the fact the owner is a big time, long practicing lawyer. :whistling2:


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## Gramps (May 24, 2012)

Paint Pro CA said:


> Im still not sold on using self priming paints on bare exterior wood.
> 
> We just did a heritage home with paint that was just starting to fail on all the windows and frames. Took everything down to bare with palm and belt sanders.
> 
> We were using Aura but I had the guys prime everything anyways just to be sure. Overkill perhaps but we have harsh winters and humid summers and the home is a show piece of the community and I want that paint job to last. That and the fact the owner is a big time, long practicing lawyer. :whistling2:


What primer did you use under the Aura?


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## Paint Pro CA (Jun 17, 2014)

Zinsser Cover Stain. Oil based.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

There seems to be a general idea among painters not to trust the newer self priming paints. A notion that our experience tells us that its better to prime than not, and that self priming paint is a modern sales gimmick. And I'm sure that's all true to an extent. 

In some cases though, I'm afraid this logic could backfire. In the case of Aura for example. Aura was developed and tested by the guys at BM who have brought us many good product systems in the past. I think its fair to say that BM is one of the most trusted manufactures in the industry. They have a good track record as far as their products performing as intended, and backing them up when they don't.

The official word from BM on Aura exterior is that it will perform best when applied directly to a raw, prepared substrate (wood). 
They are not saying "you can get away with not priming", or "you don't really have to prime". 

They are saying, "for best results with Aura, apply it directly to wood". 

I know, that's a little hard to swallow, especially with the paint&primer craze that has struck lately. But on the other hand, I find it very hard to believe that they are telling us this, and are willing to back it up with the warranty I talked about in this thread; http://www.painttalk.com/f2/aura-ext-extended-warranty-27118/ if they don't really believe it to be true. 

So at some point the question becomes; What is more risky, listening to BM and applying Aura as directed? or applying it the way we see fit based on past experiences with different products? 

IDK how priming for ext Aura affects the standard material warranty. But by the terms of the extended warranty, it must be applied directly to the substrate. In other words, priming would void the warranty.


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## Boco (May 18, 2013)

I just used C and K flat primer in 1 on an exterior stucco job. Pretty much junk. 2 coats looked OK but never again. I dont mind the fortis 450 but still spotprime using oil primer.


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## jason123 (Jul 2, 2009)

I trial tested aura and it flashed on plaster. I'll try again in another 5 yrs and see what happens. If it cant figure out plaster Im not going to trust it on ext.


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## burchptg (Jun 30, 2013)

I was brought in earlier this year to finish a job that another painter had abandoned. The original painter sold the HO on the primer in the paint schtick. It looked like sh*t. Brand new paint, but it looked 30 years old after the winter rains, which there wasn't much of this past season. I sanded it down and, primed with cover stain, and repainted. Looked like a brand new house. In my experience, paint alone does not have the build to resuscitate old wood. Nor does it seal. I used aura last year on an interior and just put it up without primer because of time constraints. It was OK. But the walls just soaked it up. When I got to the master bed, I decided to prime with BIN. The difference was incredible. The walls were like velvet and I used about half the paint. If I had used BIN throughout, I could have saved a couple hundred bucks on materials, with better results. You can blather on till your tonsils wither up in the hot dusty wind, but I've been there, done it, seen it. Reality is a stubborn little bitch.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

burchptg said:


> I was brought in earlier this year to finish a job that another painter had abandoned. The original painter sold the HO on the primer in the paint schtick. It looked like sh*t. Brand new paint, but it looked 30 years old after the winter rains, which there wasn't much of this past season. I sanded it down and, primed with cover stain, and repainted. Looked like a brand new house. In my experience, paint alone does not have the build to resuscitate old wood. Nor does it seal. I used aura last year on an interior and just put it up without primer because of time constraints. It was OK. But the walls just soaked it up. When I got to the master bed, I decided to prime with BIN. The difference was incredible. The walls were like velvet and I used about half the paint. If I had used BIN throughout, I could have saved a couple hundred bucks on materials, with better results. You can blather on till your tonsils wither up in the hot dusty wind, but I've been there, done it, seen it. Reality is a stubborn little bitch.


 
what on earth for

and lost a couple zillion brain cells:blink:


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## burchptg (Jun 30, 2013)

The fumes from BIN are alcohol. You get as much toxic exposure from sitting at a dive bar. I wonder how many people who have your superstitions guzzle booze the minute they get through the door at the end of the day. Read the post: excellent results, that's why. The walls had never been properly sealed and they needed a sealer. Who's been losing brain cells?


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## straight_lines (Oct 17, 2007)

I would much rather smell bin than oil primer. Still not the first choice for new drywall.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

burchptg said:


> The fumes from BIN are alcohol. You get as much toxic exposure from sitting at a dive bar. I wonder how many people who have your superstitions guzzle booze the minute they get through the door at the end of the day. Read the post: excellent results, that's why. The walls had never been properly sealed and they needed a sealer. Who's been losing brain cells?


 
get real and yes I have lost plenty


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## Toolnut (Nov 23, 2012)

WOW I've been to a lot of bars in my time and none of them smelled like BIN or I would never have gone back.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

BIN is the smell of success.


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## Masters Tile & Paint (Dec 30, 2009)

We just did a 100 year old house in the historical district and the home had paint peel up on the siding after two repaints within three years. So the homeowners hired us. Had the SW rep come out and look at it with me. Old wood can be a challenge. Newer wood I would have to say duration hands down. But any of the super old wood that still had a lot of stuff on it the rep actually recommended a long drying oil primer top coated with super paint. He said duration bonds so well that it can have a tendency to lift the precious product off of that older wood. 


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## Masters Tile & Paint (Dec 30, 2009)

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## Boco (May 18, 2013)

Whats with all the lap marks on the left side wall.? You may want to change your set up or technique. Plank, ladder jacks, and extensions would be my choice if i couldnt get in there with my bucket truck. Maybe do less rows at a time. Spray and backbrush always works for me.


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## Masters Tile & Paint (Dec 30, 2009)

That wall was stripped down to wood and needed one more coat. That was one coat prime and one top coat. Wallboard setup with extension ladders was our method. We sprayed and back brushed/rolled. 


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## ElTacoPaco (Dec 11, 2015)

Bump


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Depends on what your expectations and needs are. As long as the correct mil thickness is applied Duration should be fine. But the key on that is whether you can get that thickness with one coat or two. I have a hell of a time applying any paint at 6-8 mils wet but many painters seem to be able to do it just fine. If it is going to take two coats to get the correct thickness, what are you gaining from using it instead of a primer/topcoat system other than just needing one product? I have used competitive products that you couldn't peal off of bare wood with a chisel, but I have used other SW corporate products that claimed one coat on bare un-primed wood that peeled after two years. If used correctly Duration seems to hold up well. But, I would talk to someone at SW and see if they have any info on how well it works on old bare wood under extreme cold temperature conditions seeing as you are in Winnifridge Manitoba.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

PACman said:


> Depends on what your expectations and needs are. As long as the correct mil thickness is applied Duration should be fine. But the key on that is whether you can get that thickness with one coat or two. I have a hell of a time applying any paint at 6-8 mils wet but many painters seem to be able to do it just fine. If it is going to take two coats to get the correct thickness, what are you gaining from using it instead of a primer/topcoat system other than just needing one product? I have used competitive products that you couldn't peal off of bare wood with a chisel, but I have used other SW corporate products that claimed one coat on bare un-primed wood that peeled after two years. If used correctly Duration seems to hold up well. But, I would talk to someone at SW and see if they have any info on how well it works on old bare wood under extreme cold temperature conditions seeing as you are in Winnifridge Manitoba.


Going soft on SW?:laughing:


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## DanielMDollaPainting (Feb 24, 2011)

I like exterior Duration for older wood. It's pretty thick for metal IMO. The first paint job on a new house will last the longest IMO. Once the wood dries out and starts splitting that is generally what causes paint to peel. Whether it's deck stain or paint these products are good. Paint doesn't just peel usually. Sometimes it can peel on top of other coats but generally if I scrape it down anywhere it's cracked it's because the wood is checking and causing the paint membrane to crack. I'm amazed at how well duration bonds to bare spots and old oil paint. IMO the only reason to use a full prime coat is to eliminate two coats of duration and save money in material. Let's face in my world it's hard to win bids with pricing for three coats. Homeowners are sold on these paints from home stores and for good reason. I used two coats of duration instead of one prime coat and one finish to eliminate time changing paints. Duration dries fast. I can go paint a gable and by the time I'm done go right back over it. But for high work I put the first coat on and from the ground it looked good enough. Amazing how one coat can make a house look like a million bucks and probably hang on there good for 10-20 years. I had an issue once with duration covering bare spots that were pine I guess so I hit the spots with white shellac and hit it again with duration . But that goes without saying. Nothing in latex will block that. I came up in the old school of oil prime but if primer is so good why does paint always peel down to bare wood? Because the wood is cracking and dry. I'm not sure I even buy the myth that oil primer "puts the oils back in the wood" lol. I tell my customers that the sun wins. I expect 2 coats of duration or one coat of primer and one coat of duration to last the same time 8-15 years or longer depends on how much sun it takes on the house before it starts peeling.


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## JakeTheAnchor (Feb 23, 2016)

I painted a house with 35 gallons of aura. vent from white wash stain to aura. Two coats backrolled into very course wood and the finish product was great!


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## Phinnster (Feb 20, 2013)

Paint pro 
I am surprised you went to the bother of both a thorough prep job then a expensive top coat ( aura) only to use cover stain underneath 
It has been my feelings that cover stain simply is to brittle to use and trust ?


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