# Ultra Spec thickness



## Ramus8T (Jan 14, 2020)

I’m applying Super Spec to a basement and I’ve never used such a thick paint in my life aside from Behr(it was an experiment that I learned a lot from). 

I’m using a Purdy white dove 9” roller cover but the paint is really REALLY hard to apply. 

Does anyone have a preferred roller cover for SuperSpec?

I also plan on adding M1 paint extender tomorrow to hopefully improve the flow and leveling. 
Is this the best coarse of action or should I use water instead?

Thanks a ton. 

Edit: Changed title to Ultra Spec as I titled it wrong. 

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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

superspec? which superpec? product #? for the most part superspec is on older contractor grade vinyl acrylic and not what i would describe as 'thick'


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## Ramus8T (Jan 14, 2020)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> superspec? which superpec? product #? for the most part superspec is on older contractor grade vinyl acrylic and not what i would describe as 'thick'


Super Spec 500 Eggshell.
#538


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## celicaxx (May 29, 2015)

I think you mean Ultra Spec, based on that number. 

I would personally add water only. I use Arroworthy 9/16" microfiber rollers almost all the time, but for finer finishes I will go with an Arroworthy 3/8" or Wooster Microplush 5/16" for ultra smooth. Big secret with microfibers is prewet them and absolutely load them 100% with paint, fully saturate it in the tray for 2-3 minutes back and forth until it's taken a good portion of a small tray. I've used a White Dove with Regal and it was fine, though, so Ultra Spec probably will be fine. _shrugs_

I will say, if you don't like Ultra Spec, you probably won't like other BM paints. They're even more thick and draggy. :/ However, unlike Behr they're a bit smoother, but for some you need a more Behr-esque application. Aura imo applies kind of like Behr Ultra. I think but I'm not positive, that they upped the volume solids to 42% in Ultra Spec which is higher than Regal. Ben meanwhile is 37% and has a vinyl base and seems to now be significantly worse than Ultra Spec in every manner. The older Ultra Spec with I believe lower volume solids definitely was pretty thin (thinner feeling than PM200) and I used a gallon recently and it felt thicker now.

Another huge thing with all BM paints is they definitely dry quick, they're all except Ben (which interestingly in the new worse formula is 4 hours) 1-3 hours to recoat, whereas SW is 4 hours for almost everything. Which, coincidentally, Behr basically follows the same recoat pattern. Behr's whole brand imo seems to be a knockoff Benjamin Moore, down to trying to copy the application style, but BM definitely looks better dried down (more white) and still does apply smoother (which, I've not applied Behr in forever, maybe after like 15 gallons of Aura Behr will be easier...) With the fast dry times you need to be more aware of the surface you're painting and the conditions. This means surface porosity/prep, and heat and humidity especially. When a paint "feels thick" a lot of times it's not the paint vs the conditions, ie, coating over a lightly sheened primer vs bare drywall. Same with room humidity, and how fast or slow the paint dries. A paint will feel thicker if it's drying too fast, regardless of how thick or thin it is. 

This board is obviously BM-centric of a board, but if you don't like it, then don't use it in the future if you don't have to. On one hand it's good to learn how to apply basically any paint and make it look good somehow or another (add water, tinted primer, use different brushes or covers) but if it's something you're fighting with constantly, just use what works for you.


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## Masterwork (Sep 13, 2020)

Water. Add water. Don't use extender. It's not going to thin anything, just keep it wet longer. 

Flow and levelling isn't going to happen with Ultra spec. It's their low-end paint. It's better than sw promar. I'd put it on par with Dulux Ultra. It doesn't look very good when it's dry, but it does cover well in most colours.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Are you sure it didn't freeze or something? It shouldn't be that thick..


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

I thought they got rid of super spec a few years ago. I used it once and certainly didn't think I had to add any water because to me it seemed like someone else already had. Stuff was garbage.


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## Ramus8T (Jan 14, 2020)

celicaxx said:


> I think you mean Ultra Spec, based on that number.
> 
> I would personally add water only. I use Arroworthy 9/16" microfiber rollers almost all the time, but for finer finishes I will go with an Arroworthy 3/8" or Wooster Microplush 5/16" for ultra smooth. Big secret with microfibers is prewet them and absolutely load them 100% with paint, fully saturate it in the tray for 2-3 minutes back and forth until it's taken a good portion of a small tray. I've used a White Dove with Regal and it was fine, though, so Ultra Spec probably will be fine. _shrugs_
> 
> ...


You are correct, it’s Ultra Spec. My brain apparently wasn’t working yesterday when it came to typing. 

I’m genuinely surprised that BM paints are thick. I’m used to using S-W Paints for everything and they flow so well. Emerald is great for coverage and is so easy to apply in comparison. 


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## Ramus8T (Jan 14, 2020)

On the spots where I primed first the paint flowed a lot better. Not as I would prefer, but at least better. 

I’m totally familiar with how priming seals the wall and the first coat will do the same thing, it’s just that it felt like I was applying melted marshmallows with a roller. 


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Ramus8T said:


> On the spots where I primed first the paint flowed a lot better. Not as I would prefer, but at least better.
> 
> I’m totally familiar with how priming seals the wall and the first coat will do the same thing, it’s just that it felt like I was applying melted marshmallows with a roller.
> 
> ...


Something is wrong with your paint... Ultraspec should be nice and smooth


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## scbryan7 (Dec 10, 2020)

Try the MegaSpec.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

celicaxx said:


> I think you mean Ultra Spec, based on that number.
> 
> I would personally add water only. I use Arroworthy 9/16" microfiber rollers almost all the time, but for finer finishes I will go with an Arroworthy 3/8" or Wooster Microplush 5/16" for ultra smooth. *Big secret with microfibers is prewet them and absolutely load them 100% with paint, fully saturate it in the tray for 2-3 minutes back and forth until it's taken a good portion of a small tray*. I've used a White Dove with Regal and it was fine, though, so Ultra Spec probably will be fine. _shrugs_


I don't know if it's really a secret. The E&J microfiber literally have it printed on the package


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## Ramus8T (Jan 14, 2020)

Update:

I added 6oz/gallon of M1 paint extender and that is helping the flow a ton. It’s not amazing but at least it’s not taking twice as long to apply the paint. 

I’ve already taken up the practice of pre-wetting all my roller covers before letting them saturate in the roller pan because I find that this does help the application run a lot smoother. 

I’m going to ask the guy at BM if the paint should have a marshmallow like consistency out of the pail. 


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## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

Yeah, sounds to me like a weird batch. I've not had inconsistencies with ultra spec before, but I have with Regal (i.e. where sometimes it comes out of the can thicker than others). I've just added a little water as needed.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Ultra Spec Eggshell TDS
42% SBV
4.3 WFT
1.8 DFT
518 Extender or Water (Thinning is generally un-necessary)


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## mike mineral spirits (Dec 5, 2020)

celicaxx said:


> I think you mean Ultra Spec, based on that number.
> 
> I would personally add water only. I use Arroworthy 9/16" microfiber rollers almost all the time, but for finer finishes I will go with an Arroworthy 3/8" or Wooster Microplush 5/16" for ultra smooth. Big secret with microfibers is prewet them and absolutely load them 100% with paint, fully saturate it in the tray for 2-3 minutes back and forth until it's taken a good portion of a small tray. I've used a White Dove with Regal and it was fine, though, so Ultra Spec probably will be fine. _shrugs_
> 
> ...


Great insight, great response. @ Sherwin, every interior paint is designed for 2 coats. Adverse experience has taught them to keep a "wet edge" or reduce the dry time to improve touch up. I haven't sold Ben Moore since the 70's, but every top end paint contractor I have dealt with in over 39 years goes with Benjamin Moore on all interiors. 

Dutch Boy, Pratt & Lambert, MAB and Duron all made high end interior finishes, but their recipes have been shredded for eternity by the great and powerful Sherwin. Remember, a manufacturer is constantly challenged by EPA and OSHA standards. They constantly try to improve, but product reformulation results in touch up inconsistencies and sometimes rheology or appearance problems. That does not even begin to tell the story when the colorant is reformulated. Tools are like cars, everyone has their own preferences. As mentioned above, wetting the brush or cover prior to use, always produces the best results. Rollers, lambskin always on walls, buy a 6 pack for $12 @ HD and your gallon of Aura will go to waste, like somebody throwing chicken poop through a screen door. Oh, I almost forgot due to advanced age or lead in my blood, use a brush and roller comb after wetting your tools. Continue to have a great day.


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## LarryHawk (Apr 8, 2011)

BM Ultra Spec Semi Gloss for doors and trim is pretty darn good, covers well, and a nice white.
However for walls, nothing beats S&W Duration for low viscosity, excellent flow, and coverage. A little pricy, but worth it.


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## Masterwork (Sep 13, 2020)

It covers well, but it doesn't level out well at all.


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## celicaxx (May 29, 2015)

Masterwork said:


> It covers well, but it doesn't level out well at all.


What? Duration or Ultra Spec?


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## celicaxx (May 29, 2015)

LarryHawk said:


> BM Ultra Spec Semi Gloss for doors and trim is pretty darn good, covers well, and a nice white.
> However for walls, nothing beats S&W Duration for low viscosity, excellent flow, and coverage. A little pricy, but worth it.


How would you rate Ultra Spec vs Regal on trim? I've only used Ultra Spec eggshell and flat. I think Ultra Spec has a higher acrylic content than Ben, Ben I don't like on trim. I'm trying to convince the guy I sub with to use more Ultra Spec vs Ben, I feel like Ultra Spec has more acrylic content than Ben and dries down a lot harder. I was looking at MPI specs and Ultra Spec is actually rated in the "Latex High Performance" category like Regal, Duration, and Behr Ultra and Marquee. Ben meanwhile is rated in the "low odor, it's just paint" category. MPI # 138 Ultra Spec next to Regal and Aura in spec.



> A high performance architectural latex coating, Gloss Level 2 (a 'velvet-like' finish). Designed to provide a significantly higher level of performance than conventional latex paints in the areas of scrub resistance, burnish resistance, and ease of stain removal. It is intended for use on new or previously painted interior wall and ceiling surfaces including gypsum board, plaster, concrete or primed metal and wood surfaces._Note: Requires a properly-prepared Level 4 drywall finish (i.e. Assuming no critical lighting conditions). See "Standard Specification for Application and Finishing of Gypsum Board – ASTM C 840"._


Whereas Ben is listed as 


> A white, or colored, water based latex-based paint with a low sheen finish. Used on primed/sealed interior plaster and gypsum board, and on primed wood and metals.








MPI # 44


MPI mpi Master Painters Institue Painting information, standards and specifications



www.specifypaint.com





For more fun.
PaintInfo | APL | Product Index Alphabetical

It's a little odd that their cheaper contractor line gets higher MPI ratings than their homeowner line a next up in price. With SW the closest equivalent is Promar 200 HP, which is rated next to Duration. But Promar 200 HP is not the same as normal Promar 200. Also when I go to their site 200HP is listed as special order only for me at SW, it's not an item they stock much here. Also $81 (lol) I'm sure if I asked I could get it at a lower price, though.


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## Masterwork (Sep 13, 2020)

celicaxx said:


> What? Duration or Ultra Spec?


Ultra spec. It covers well, but it's ugly when it's dry. I've used a lot of the semi-gloss white on trim and doors. I wouldn't recommend it outside of a factory environment.


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## celicaxx (May 29, 2015)

Masterwork said:


> Ultra spec. It covers well, but it's ugly when it's dry. I've used a lot of the semi-gloss white on trim and doors. I wouldn't recommend it outside of a factory environment.


According to MPI, the Ultra Spec semi-gloss is a gloss level 4 sheen like a satin, and the "Gloss" is a level 5 semi-gloss. The gloss is supposedly in the same sheen range as Regal Select semi-gloss, which looks great on trim. 






MPI # 140


MPI mpi Master Painters Institue Painting information, standards and specifications



www.specifypaint.com









MPI # 141


MPI mpi Master Painters Institue Painting information, standards and specifications



www.specifypaint.com





Hmm.


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## Masterwork (Sep 13, 2020)

But it doesn't level out. Doesn't matter how you put it on, you see all the brush marks and roller marks. There are way better trim paints than Ultra-spec.


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## Joe67 (Aug 12, 2016)

I've not had troubles with Ultra Spec leveling. And apparently Scuff-X, which levels great, is somehow related to Ultra Spec? It says Ultra Spec on the label. But I'm not one of the paint chemistry people. I can say that, as I noted in an earlier post, I've gotten some thickness inconsistencies with Regal before and if I get some that's on the thick side and don't thin it some, it doesn't level well. Maybe the formula change will help.


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## celicaxx (May 29, 2015)

mike mineral spirits said:


> Great insight, great response. @ Sherwin, every interior paint is designed for 2 coats. Adverse experience has taught them to keep a "wet edge" or reduce the dry time to improve touch up. I haven't sold Ben Moore since the 70's, but every top end paint contractor I have dealt with in over 39 years goes with Benjamin Moore on all interiors.
> 
> Dutch Boy, Pratt & Lambert, MAB and Duron all made high end interior finishes, but their recipes have been shredded for eternity by the great and powerful Sherwin. Remember, a manufacturer is constantly challenged by EPA and OSHA standards. They constantly try to improve, but product reformulation results in touch up inconsistencies and sometimes rheology or appearance problems. That does not even begin to tell the story when the colorant is reformulated. Tools are like cars, everyone has their own preferences. As mentioned above, wetting the brush or cover prior to use, always produces the best results. Rollers, lambskin always on walls, buy a 6 pack for $12 @ HD and your gallon of Aura will go to waste, like somebody throwing chicken poop through a screen door. Oh, I almost forgot due to advanced age or lead in my blood, use a brush and roller comb after wetting your tools. Continue to have a great day.


BM is usually always better looking than Sherwin, more true of a white, and more accurate to color swatches. Sherwin whites tend to have a bluish tint to them. However, BM's somewhat or very weak on yellow and creams for coverage, possibly due to being truer white or something weird with the yellow Gennex tint. I would say on the flip side BM is a lot better than SW at deeper base colors, probably due to Gennex. On the lower end I find BM not worth it, higher end of the price range, worth it. Where I am it's defacto to go BM in any higher end house, Sherwin is more for commercial and lower/midrange houses. For exterior I've seen BM do a lot better here in New England vs SW, too.

With the color, though, it's really one of those intangible almost too little to notice things.






This video here is oddly PC graphics cards, but I bought an Nvidia card for my PC and I was surprised how I didn't like the color palette on it vs my older AMD card. Turns out while AMD was usually slower in bench marks for games by a few FPS, Nvidia more or less cheated by rendering less colors and very small details, and most people can't notice it. Paint's sort of like that too in subjectivity, like audiophile stuff or wine tasting. The more buying stuff online and on price alone allows companies to skip on less tangible or readily apparent things, so one TV could have better colors or image quality but has less "Smart" features so it won't sell as well as the "Smart" one, that kind of thing. If we go by coverage and price alone, I've even used $15-20 a gallon Glidden that had pretty decent coverage, but not great durability or a generally great finished look. 





This test, too, he compares a lot of paints common from box stores, and if you notice, some are downright gray compared to others. He said Behr Marquee reminded him of Lucas Oil Stabilizer in viscosity, haha.


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## Ramus8T (Jan 14, 2020)

celicaxx said:


> BM is usually always better looking than Sherwin, more true of a white, and more accurate to color swatches. Sherwin whites tend to have a bluish tint to them. However, BM's somewhat or very weak on yellow and creams for coverage, possibly due to being truer white or something weird with the yellow Gennex tint. I would say on the flip side BM is a lot better than SW at deeper base colors, probably due to Gennex. On the lower end I find BM not worth it, higher end of the price range, worth it. Where I am it's defacto to go BM in any higher end house, Sherwin is more for commercial and lower/midrange houses. For exterior I've seen BM do a lot better here in New England vs SW, too.
> 
> With the color, though, it's really one of those intangible almost too little to notice things.
> 
> ...


I wish he would have done Aura next to Emerald. 


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## celicaxx (May 29, 2015)

Ramus8T said:


> I wish he would have done Aura next to Emerald.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


At 7:40 you can see the Color Place is straight up gray compared to the others, and they all have a little different shades of white overall, despite being stock white bases he's using. Emerald also looks grayer than Behr Marquee, too.


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## mike mineral spirits (Dec 5, 2020)

Masterwork said:


> It covers well, but it doesn't level out well at all.


Talk about micro bubbles. Duration, do this, rub your thumb across the painted surface and watch the lanolin stain set in. Splash some water on any medium color and watch the streaking occur. Go into any SW bathroom and look at the dirt accumulation on their walls. Policy was to use Emerald to repaint the interiors. Same problem. My dad would turn over in his grave if he saw this finished product on the wall of one of his jobs. Flash and streak is a more appropriate name. Emerald Urethane enamel is one great product, levels nicely. SW gave me a nice retirement fund, but at what cost? took the goodies out of the cookie jar.


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## mike mineral spirits (Dec 5, 2020)

mike mineral spirits said:


> Talk about micro bubbles. Duration, do this, rub your thumb across the painted surface and watch the lanolin stain set in. Splash some water on any medium color and watch the streaking occur. Go into any SW bathroom and look at the dirt accumulation on their walls. Policy was to use Emerald to repaint the interiors. Same problem. My dad would turn over in his grave if he saw this finished product on the wall of one of his jobs. Flash and streak is a more appropriate name. Emerald Urethane enamel is one great product, levels nicely. SW gave me a nice retirement fund, but at what cost? took the goodies out of the cookie jar.


Now, when I have to match SW 7006 extra white, I have to add some Black, yellow oxide and raw umber to match the color. High reflective white, 2/48ths of an ounce of raw umber. Costs money to bleach titanium to achieve a super white. Their grays are always blue or purple. I see it, I don't know if he average person can? BTW, their biggest seller PM 200 produces a decent finish, but pricing is only for contractors. a homeowner who goes into SW for touch up will probably pay $60 for property solutions or $75 for a Pro Mar gallon. Use their 15 line for best results.


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## mike mineral spirits (Dec 5, 2020)

mike mineral spirits said:


> Now, when I have to match SW 7006 extra white, I have to add some Black, yellow oxide and raw umber to match the color. High reflective white, 2/48ths of an ounce of raw umber. Costs money to bleach titanium to achieve a super white. Their grays are always blue or purple. I see it, I don't know if he average person can? BTW, their biggest seller PM 200 produces a decent finish, but pricing is only for contractors. a homeowner who goes into SW for touch up will probably pay $60 for property solutions or $75 for a Pro Mar gallon. Use their 15 line for best results.


Forgive me Mr Williams.


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## mike mineral spirits (Dec 5, 2020)

Ramus8T said:


> I wish he would have done Aura next to Emerald.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Absolutely, Aura and maybe try UltraLast matte. but a matte is not a like product. Manor Hall should also be thrown into the ring.


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## mike mineral spirits (Dec 5, 2020)

mike mineral spirits said:


> Absolutely, Aura and maybe try UltraLast matte. but a matte is not a like product. Manor Hall should also be thrown into the ring.


In their analysis, they did not point out self leveling, also cure time greatly affects performance. how long were the paints allowed to dry? I must have missed that segment.


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## Masterwork (Sep 13, 2020)

mike mineral spirits said:


> BTW, their biggest seller PM 200 produces a decent finish


This is something that has always bothered me. The promar 200 does look good when dry. Way better than Dulux Ultra or BM Ultra-spec. But it always takes more than 2 coats.... The cost of labour for that extra coat or two, I may as well buy Aura. SW needs to get their **** together. I only go there for a few products that I think are better than the competition: their precat epoxy, block filler (fewer pinhole after 1 coat than anyone else), and I've started using the Emerald Urethane for doors and trim.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

celicaxx said:


> At 7:40 you can see the Color Place is straight up gray compared to the others, and they all have a little different shades of white overall, despite being stock white bases he's using. Emerald also looks grayer than Behr Marquee, too.


That's because it is. Behr whites are slightly blue toned. Most sherwin 'extra white' bases have a bunch of raw umber added. Its the equivilent of tinting the BM 01 stock whites instead of the 1X bases.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

Masterwork said:


> This is something that has always bothered me. The promar 200 does look good when dry. Way better than Dulux Ultra or BM Ultra-spec. But it always takes more than 2 coats.... The cost of labour for that extra coat or two, I may as well buy Aura. SW needs to get their **** together. I only go there for a few products that I think are better than the competition: their precat epoxy, block filler (fewer pinhole after 1 coat than anyone else), and I've started using the Emerald Urethane for doors and trim.


Ultraspec semigloss is almost a satin like sheen. Gloss is more like a true semigloss in that product. For trim I really wish Bm would have put that coronado trim paint under the ultraspec label it would be selling much better. Its really impressive for $25/gallon.


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

mike mineral spirits said:


> Absolutely, Aura and maybe try UltraLast matte. but a matte is not a like product. Manor Hall should also be thrown into the ring.


PPG discontinued manor hall. One of the many reasons I dropped their product line.

I'm currently looking at bringing in fine paints of europe...


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## celicaxx (May 29, 2015)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> PPG discontinued manor hall. One of the many reasons I dropped their product line.
> 
> I'm currently looking at bringing in fine paints of europe...


I heard a lot good about Manor Hall. How is Timeless compared to it?


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## cocomonkeynuts (Apr 14, 2017)

celicaxx said:


> I heard a lot good about Manor Hall. How is Timeless compared to it?


I believe timeless is a hardware store brand? In which case like so many other products it'll be discontinued eventually and leave you stranded.
PPG keeps screwing with fomulas and colors and entire product lines. TBH I have zero faith in PPG products and their assoiated brands. Flood, Sikkens etc.


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## Woodco (Nov 19, 2016)

celicaxx said:


> I heard a lot good about Manor Hall. How is Timeless compared to it?


I've never tried the box store Timeless. Heard good things though... The exterior Timeless from the PPG stores was some of the best exterior ever, though.


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## mike mineral spirits (Dec 5, 2020)

Masterwork said:


> This is something that has always bothered me. The promar 200 does look good when dry. Way better than Dulux Ultra or BM Ultra-spec. But it always takes more than 2 coats.... The cost of labour for that extra coat or two, I may as well buy Aura. SW needs to get their **** together. I only go there for a few products that I think are better than the competition: their precat epoxy, block filler (fewer pinhole after 1 coat than anyone else), and I've started using the Emerald Urethane for doors and trim.


You are so correct. The old ProMar 200, b20w8251 was an excellent 2 coat coverage. 2 problems. remove or reduce the titanium combined with the zero or low VOC colorants and you have a 2 to 5 coat coverage issue. Go with a high reflective base with the color and expect 5 coats to have a respectable job. If you see hi reflective on your gallon? they did the paint contractor a disservice. They are going to tell you they had to go with that base to make your color, which is BS. Cleaning or bleaching titanium is an expensive process @ the plant. When shipped from overseas. the quality of the titanium is always + or minus 5 percent. the titanium must be checked for the quality so the tint level is always consistent. If this batch of paint is minus 4% and this gallon is +3%, there would be quite a color difference. Pigment extenders are more consistent in their quality. Every product @ SW has a different formula. Old days 20 years ago, every can of paint had the same formula with the exceptions of elastomeric. Formulas @ 75%. let me know if this makes any sense to you?


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## mike mineral spirits (Dec 5, 2020)

cocomonkeynuts said:


> I believe timeless is a hardware store brand? In which case like so many other products it'll be discontinued eventually and leave you stranded.
> PPG keeps screwing with fomulas and colors and entire product lines. TBH I have zero faith in PPG products and their assoiated brands. Flood, Sikkens etc.


Sooner or later everybody has to pay the piper. I've heard this for the past 15 years, formulation changes to product, then combine it with colorant changes? The formula on the can of paint has no relationship to the new gallon of paint + no touch-up possible.Every manufacturer has or had the same issues. SW used the "Test Drive program to ease their complaints. Excellent program


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