# easy to use website creation program



## Rcon

Does anyone here know a good 'easy to use' website creation program that can make great websites? I've got Dreamweaver but I just can't figure that program out. 

Thanks


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## y.painting

I suggest using a content managment system (CMS) like wordpress or joomla. These systems allow you to use templates (so that you don't have to hard code a website from scratch), tweak the code to your liking, upload plugins, etc. Essentially, it's a prepackaged system to manage your web content.

Wordpress:


> WordPress has a templating system, which includes widgets that can be rearranged without editing PHP or HTML code, as well as themes that can be installed and switched between. The PHP and HTML code in themes can also be edited for more advanced customizations. WordPress also features integrated link management; a search engine-friendly, clean permalink structure; the ability to assign nested, multiple categories to articles; and support for tagging of posts and articles. Automatic filters that provide for proper formatting and styling of text in articles (for example, converting regular quotes to smart quotes) are also included. WordPress also supports the Trackback and Pingback standards for displaying links to other sites that have themselves linked to a post or article. Finally, WordPress has a rich plugin architecture which allows users and developers to extend its functionality beyond the features that come as part of the base install.


Joomla:


> *Joomla!* is an open source content management system platform for publishing content on the World Wide Web and intranets as well as a Model–view–controller (MVC) Web application framework. It is written in PHP, stores data in MySQL and includes features such as page caching, RSS feeds, printable versions of pages, news flashes, blogs, polls, search, and support for language internationalization.


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## aaron61

Rcon said:


> Does anyone here know a good 'easy to use' website creation program that can make great websites? I've got Dreamweaver but I just can't figure that program out.
> 
> Thanks


Your website is only going to be as "great" as what you are capable of working with. If you want "great" hire a pro. Kind of like what we tell DIY painters.


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## daArch

Aaron,

You are absolutely correct about hiring a pro if website authoring is beyond you.

HOWEVER, I am sure I am not the only one that learned code ten or more years ago, has an artistic sense, understands web site organization, and is willing to learn other nuances.

Serious amateurs/hobbyists can still craft a very decent website. I can draw a comparison to woodworking. Not all heirloom quality pieces of furniture are made in a professional shop. 

Developing and authoring a website is NOT for everyone. It takes a LOT of work and knowledge. If one does not have the innate ability, understanding, patience, time, and knowledge then do not even begin down that road. Your time and money will be better spent having a professional do it.


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## daArch

Y.,

the linked articles for both wordpress and joomla say open source........as in FREE ?

Are they buggy? or good and stable?

I still do mostly html but need to get into java and style sheets. How are they for those? 

Also, I see mention of php, my friend Parodi says that the SEO doesn't like php. What's your take on that?


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## RCP

They are both free, Wordpress is a little easier than Joomla. 
As for SEO, my Joomla site (been up for 2 months)which I have done very little with is ranking locally right up with my Iweb site (up for two years)!


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## RCP

Another option is using GoDaddy's website tonite, basic, but it works.


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## y.painting

Bill,

Yes, these CMSs are free.

The mention of php, java, etc is basically a description of what the system is capable of handling or its features. Your particular website does not have to include php code if you choose not too.

The mention of PHP in the Joomla description refers to the fact that the system itself is built on a PHP basis; has nothing to do with it's outputs.

Wordpess and joomla are some of the MOST STABLE systems available today.

Just to give you an idea, here are some sites that use wordpress:
- Wall Street Journal
- Techcrunch
- Wired magazine
- Ebay blogs
- Mozilla Labs
- Ben and Jerrys
- University of Arkansas at Little Rock
- University of Maine
.....See Full List


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## aaron61

daArch said:


> Aaron,
> 
> You are absolutely correct about hiring a pro if website authoring is beyond you.
> 
> HOWEVER, I am sure I am not the only one that learned code ten or more years ago, has an artistic sense, understands web site organization, and is willing to learn other nuances.
> 
> Serious amateurs/hobbyists can still craft a very decent website. I can draw a comparison to woodworking. Not all heirloom quality pieces of furniture are made in a professional shop.
> 
> Developing and authoring a website is NOT for everyone. It takes a LOT of work and knowledge. If one does not have the innate ability, understanding, patience, time, and knowledge then do not even begin down that road. Your time and money will be better spent having a professional do it.


Way Off Topic
Very true...however I was refering to the use of the word "great" and not being able to use dreamweaver. (Which I probably couldn't either at this point.)


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## PaintingContractor

I've been using Joomla for 5 years now and I really like it. I've heard really good things about wordpress as well. It does take a little bit to learn how to use each system, but if money is an issue then all you have is time to learn. If you do have money to spend on a site, it will be money well spent to hire a professional


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## deach

Went live with my Drupal site Easter Sunday. Although I don't have it all mastered yet, It went ok once I got with the CMS way.


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## Rcon

Thanks for the replies guys. 

So I tried joomla, and didn't really like it - it didn't give me enough control over the look of my page, so I decided to try to teach myself Dreamweaver instead. For the last 5 days i've been at the computer for 8-10 hours/day trying to learn CSS, HTML, Code, layout and design elements, as well as trying to learn how to use flash 10 in combination with illustrator and photoshop. FUN!!! :whistling2:

What was even _more_ fun was learning how to import graphics to dreamweaver and having them display properly on a black web page without white outlines! Took me 2 days just to do graphics for that! 

But, at least i'm starting to get somewhere - here's what i've got so far (long way to go still), but it's taking shape. 

Tell me what ya think: www.rconpainting.ca

Like I said it's got a long way to go, but getting the layout right was a major challenge for me. 

Oh, BTW, adding hyperlinks to flash AS3 buttons is a PITFA! 

This is the first website i've ever designed from scratch, so if any of you have some ideas/tips on what I should be putting on there, or SEO ideas, i'm all ears


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## RCP

Kind of dark for a painting site, I do like the color and style.
I was just cleaning out my office today and found a Dreamweaver Bible 2004, if you want it, pm me your address.


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## Rcon

RCP said:


> Kind of dark for a painting site, I do like the color and style.
> I was just cleaning out my office today and found a Dreamweaver Bible 2004, if you want it, pm me your address.


Thanks  I know it's dark right now, with all that black empty space, but once I get the rest of the graphics, pictures, and flash movie in there it should brighten it up a bit. I'm going for a very 'contemporary' look - I call it target marketing 

Thanks for the offer of the Dreamweaver bible, but I think i'm getting this figured out --- lots of info on the web and adobe site, but thank you nonetheless :thumbsup:


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## deach

Looks like you're off to a good start. While I would agree (just for now about the "dark" comment) I can't wait to see how it goes when you've got that all in there.


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## capitalcity painting

Looks good to me so far. I had a hard time with the pics with no lines around them also. I gave up and paid someone today to do mine. Usually $1800 cost was a end of the year deal for $1000 and I jumped on it. I have spent to much time on my site and it still sucks. I'm trying to get into some of the bigger markets close by and think a web page and good seo or pay per click campaign is alot cheaper then the old fashion forms of advertising. They want $800 month for a descent size add in the phone book and that only represents one phone book out of the 3 major ones people use. Also they have about 50 other painters in there. I can do a lot better in other forms of marketing especially online. Good luck Rcon


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## nEighter

If you know ANY code at all dreamweaver is not bad at all. I would start with a template and if you want to tweak it you can, or you can get online and actually find any bit of code you want. What dreamweaver does is check your code, Right click - copy - paste into the actual program and it can let you know if something is wrong, possible fixes, and if anything is non compliant with any of the code to browsers. Which is where you have to double up and is the hardest about coding.. you have to double and sometimes triple code a website so that all browsers will/can see it. I have an issue with Internet Explorer now that I am trying to work out. It is a matter of what to do in CSS vs. Html and vis versa.

Basically if you want a site, there are a ton of free sites that offer customizable templates. You can then upload some pics and put the site on your business cards or flyers or whatever. If you want to go balls deep and don't have the money, get a domain purchased and most domain hosts have templates or site builders they offer.

Good luck.


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## nEighter

Rcon said:


> Thanks for the replies guys.
> 
> So I tried joomla, and didn't really like it - it didn't give me enough control over the look of my page, so I decided to try to teach myself Dreamweaver instead. For the last 5 days i've been at the computer for 8-10 hours/day trying to learn CSS, HTML, Code, layout and design elements, as well as trying to learn how to use flash 10 in combination with illustrator and photoshop. FUN!!! :whistling2:
> 
> What was even _more_ fun was learning how to import graphics to dreamweaver and having them display properly on a black web page without white outlines! Took me 2 days just to do graphics for that!
> 
> But, at least i'm starting to get somewhere - here's what i've got so far (long way to go still), but it's taking shape.
> 
> Tell me what ya think: www.rconpainting.ca
> 
> Like I said it's got a long way to go, but getting the layout right was a major challenge for me.
> 
> Oh, BTW, adding hyperlinks to flash AS3 buttons is a PITFA!
> 
> This is the first website i've ever designed from scratch, so if any of you have some ideas/tips on what I should be putting on there, or SEO ideas, i'm all ears


Hey man your stuff is looking pretty good! I didn't see that you actually had something going! Keep it up man.


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## Rcon

Well, after about 60 hours of graphics, photos, layouts and content, and an equal number of pots of coffee, I think i've got er done. Just need to do the SEO part now. 

Not bad I guess considering 7 days ago I had no idea how to start building a website!! :whistling2:

Let me know if you guys find any dead links or bugs. And if you have any suggestions...

Cheers :thumbup:

Rcon Painting Website


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## RCP

Looking good! Your photos are stunning, there really needs to be a way to see a slideshow of bigger pix (now that you have the basics mastered)!


Navigation needs some work, do you plan on making the text along the top all hyperlinks?
The menus on the left kind of confuse me, what is difference between products and services?
Looking at it as a consumer, if I want to know about new home or commercial, where do I go?

The supplier logos really stand out, they clash with the cool, elegant tone (which I am really starting to like!). Maybe a hyperlink to the site from the list on right of suppliers? Good SEO also.

You have made amazing progress!:thumbup:
And you are never done! LOL!


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## PressurePros

Alec, I want to give you credit for learning the program and having a working page up so soon. For me, unfortunately, that is where the praise comes down a notch. Let me try to be objective. This is meant as constructive criticism from a customer point of view.
*
The Layout and presentation*

• I do not like the dark background. Its dreary looking. You can use a dark background but you have to have things pop out against it. Here is an example of a dark background well executed: http://wisergirls.org/
• The layout proportions are not eye pleasing. It parlays amateur design. Your pictures do not line up properly. I would not use the stairwell picture on the front page unless you crop it and make it the same size as the other photos. This misalignment happens on several pages.
• You mix clear sharp photos with blurry ones. It ruins the effect of having the photos. This takes the professionalism you are trying to put out there down several notches.
• The two year guarantee and "go green" graphics look like afterthoughts you threw in as space fillers. Perhaps grouping graphics of those type of messages in one area will help.
• Your contact information should be in the top fold of the page. (ie no scrolling to see it). Do that on every page. 
• When you list topics the way you did across the top of the page, people expect that to be a menu. Its a good idea to keep them and it will help with SEO. Just go back and make them hyperlinks.

*Content:*

• You have written some well worded copy but the layout is not conducive to reading it. Try breaking it up on the pages. (this may be a short coming of your design knowledge)
• From your home page copy: "We have a long list of proven, reputable contractors we work with regularly, who we can direct you to for any other projects you need taken care of, such as electrical work, hardwood floor refinishing and drywalling." Who cares? I am on your site to find a painter. If you are not a GC, you are wasting valuable home page space with this paragraph. Its not conducive to good SEO and waters down your message.
• On your "About Us" page. Putting in your hobbies is a no-no. Its too much information. Talk about your company. Telling people you are the best, even though it may be true, is boring and cliched. 
• Your projects page (I know this site is a work-in-progress) should not be there when you go live unless it is completed. It equates to a "page under construction" and that is another no-no.
• From your "services" page: "If you have something we forgot to mention, ask us! Odds are, we probably do it!" Not a professional statement. You tout high quality painting throughout the site yet this is a statement a handyman would make. 
• On that same page: You're a painter. Making a laundry list of things people have to search through is not necessary. Telling potential customers you are full service and do interiors, exteriors, new construction and wood staining is adequate. KISS principal applies. 

Overall your copy is too focused on "quality". Your not solving any problems. Every company says they are high quality. Consumers skip right over that. Sell the benefits of your work. Show before and afters. Tell people about increased property value. Tell them that their home is going to be the nicest on the block.. that there will be no doubt a professional company performed the work. Sell your add-on services as a benefit. "Because we are full service professionals, while we are prepping your exterior, we can take care of that hanging gutter or loose shutter. Sell how clean you are and how clean you keep people's homes while you are working on them. Talk about how little you inconvenience someone. THESE are the reasons people buy. They are the roundabout way of screaming high quality without actually saying it. 

I hope this long evaluation doesn't throw you for a loop or make me come across as a know-it-all. I looked at the site objectively. I owned a web design company when I was 19 (when dancing babies and music were high end) and have kept abreast of trends. I am still just a contractor though, not a web designer or code specialist so I tried to look at everything from a marketing standpoint.


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## Rcon

Thanks for the thorough review!! 

May I ask, what size screen were you viewing the site with? It's optimized for 1600 X 1200, but I realize that many viewers may be seeing it at something like 1280... 

I know there's an alignment problem with some of the photos. One thing I couldn't figure out was how to snap those pictures to the center of the page and keep them there by using some sort of table - (still don't have that part figured out) so I used H space and V space to align them. I guess it didn't work as well as i'd hoped 

Which photos are blurry? They all look sharp on my screen? Or are you talking about the ones on the main page where the foreground is sharp but the background is blurred? 

Yes, that 'go green' graphic is only there to keep that column from shrinking up and misaligning the photos. It's meant to be replaced. And the 2 year guarantee gif that I made looked good before I got the rest of the content in there, but now it looks cheap. Thanks for pointing that out. 

For the layout not being eye pleasing - do you think I should make the logo and page title graphics smaller? Or do you mean something else? 

As for content - i'll make those changes right away! Thanks again! :thumbup:


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## Rcon

PressurePros said:


> Alec, I want to give you credit for learning the program and having a working page up so soon. For me, unfortunately, that is where the praise comes down a notch. Let me try to be objective. This is meant as constructive criticism from a customer point of view.
> *
> The Layout and presentation*
> 
> • I do not like the dark background. Its dreary looking. You can use a dark background but you have to have things pop out against it. Here is an example of a dark background well executed: http://wisergirls.org/
> • *The layout proportions are not eye pleasing. *It parlays amateur design. Your pictures do not line up properly. I would not use the stairwell picture on the front page unless you crop it and make it the same size as the other photos. This misalignment happens on several pages.
> • You mix clear sharp photos with blurry ones. It ruins the effect of having the photos. This takes the professionalism you are trying to put out there down several notches.
> • The two year guarantee and "go green" graphics look like afterthoughts you threw in as space fillers. Perhaps grouping graphics of those type of messages in one area will help.
> • Your contact information should be in the top fold of the page. (ie no scrolling to see it). Do that on every page.
> • When you list topics the way you did across the top of the page, people expect that to be a menu. Its a good idea to keep them and it will help with SEO. Just go back and make them hyperlinks.
> 
> *Content:*
> 
> • You have written some well worded copy but the layout is not conducive to reading it. Try breaking it up on the pages. (this may be a short coming of your design knowledge)
> • From your home page copy: "We have a long list of proven, reputable contractors we work with regularly, who we can direct you to for any other projects you need taken care of, such as electrical work, hardwood floor refinishing and drywalling." Who cares? I am on your site to find a painter. If you are not a GC, you are wasting valuable home page space with this paragraph. Its not conducive to good SEO and waters down your message.
> • On your "About Us" page. Putting in your hobbies is a no-no. Its too much information. Talk about your company. Telling people you are the best, even though it may be true, is boring and cliched.
> • Your projects page (I know this site is a work-in-progress) should not be there when you go live unless it is completed. It equates to a "page under construction" and that is another no-no.
> • From your "services" page: "If you have something we forgot to mention, ask us! Odds are, we probably do it!" Not a professional statement. You tout high quality painting throughout the site yet this is a statement a handyman would make.
> • On that same page: You're a painter. Making a laundry list of things people have to search through is not necessary. Telling potential customers you are full service and do interiors, exteriors, new construction and wood staining is adequate. KISS principal applies.
> 
> Overall your copy is too focused on "quality". Your not solving any problems. Every company says they are high quality. Consumers skip right over that. Sell the benefits of your work. Show before and afters. Tell people about increased property value. Tell them that their home is going to be the nicest on the block.. that there will be no doubt a professional company performed the work. Sell your add-on services as a benefit. "Because we are full service professionals, while we are prepping your exterior, we can take care of that hanging gutter or loose shutter. Sell how clean you are and how clean you keep people's homes while you are working on them. Talk about how little you inconvenience someone. THESE are the reasons people buy. They are the roundabout way of screaming high quality without actually saying it.
> 
> I hope this long evaluation doesn't throw you for a loop or make me come across as a know-it-all. I looked at the site objectively. I owned a web design company when I was 19 (when dancing babies and music were high end) and have kept abreast of trends. I am still just a contractor though, not a web designer or code specialist so I tried to look at everything from a marketing standpoint.


:notworthy:

I see what you mean! I resized my browser, first to 1024, then to 800 - ya, the content all runs into itself!! I forget that many people these days are using laptops, and their screen resolution is likely to be 1024. My use of the liquid template allows for all the content to get squished into itself, so I agree that isn't very eye-pleasing. (I designed it on a desktop with 1600 X 1200 resolution so that didn't occur to me)... 

Just put on another pot of coffee - back to the drawing board I go :whistling2:


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## PressurePros

It wasn't a resolution issue, it was more of an aesthetic layout thing. That's tougher to quantify because it is so subjective. Get more opinions on that one. I think when I originally viewed the page I was on a 1024x768 monitor which I believe is still the most common screen size by a narrow margin.. something like one in every three viewers.


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## patti

*you hit a marketing point full on*



PressurePros said:


> Overall your copy is too focused on "quality". Your not solving any problems. Every company says they are high quality. Consumers skip right over that. Sell the benefits of your work. Show before and afters. Tell people about increased property value. Tell them that their home is going to be the nicest on the block.. that there will be no doubt a professional company performed the work. Sell your add-on services as a benefit. "Because we are full service professionals, while we are prepping your exterior, we can take care of that hanging gutter or loose shutter. Sell how clean you are and how clean you keep people's homes while you are working on them. Talk about how little you inconvenience someone. THESE are the reasons people buy. They are the roundabout way of screaming high quality without actually saying it.
> .


Spot on! A marketing professional couldn't have said it better.


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## Rcon

What do you think of this layout? Better? 

testpage


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## PressurePros

A better start, Alec. I'm looking forward to seeing how you progress.


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## RCP

It looks "nice", I think I prefer the older one! More of a "wow" factor.
I have mixed feelings on the dark background, I like it, but not sure it is right for a painting site where we want to convey "fresh and bright". That being said, the first thing I thought when I saw the new version was "looks like a lot of others".
Look at how this guy uses the black background here

It is so hard to decide these types of things, do I do what I think looks good or what my target market might like?

Guess that is why I have 5 websites I can't make a decision on!


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## PressurePros

Chris, when it comes to websites, I look at the rules as "be inviting and sell. sell, sell". The graphic presentation is not nearly as important. Look at CraigsList.. one billion visitors a year and hands down the ugliest site out there. 

I don't want to mislead you. I think a nice looking site is a bonus and objective one should work towards. Its just doesn't rank as high as having a pleasing look that caters to the masses. I'll throw in the paint analogy. Give me a room with warm or cool neutrals and white trim every day of the week. I will add color with artwork, furniture fabric choices, and decor items. The background of a website is in essence, its wall. Its much easier for us amateur designers, whether websites or rooms, to have a neutral canvas. Less chance of making a mess or something garish in the interest of being different.

I have the opposite philosophy when it comes to print pieces where standing out is very important.


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## RCP

I agree, you had already covered the content very well!


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## Rcon

RCP said:


> It looks "nice", I think I prefer the older one! More of a "wow" factor.
> I have mixed feelings on the dark background, I like it, but not sure it is right for a painting site where we want to convey "fresh and bright". *That being said, the first thing I thought when I saw the new version was "looks like a lot of others".*
> Look at how this guy uses the black background here
> 
> It is so hard to decide these types of things, do I do what I think looks good or what my target market might like?
> 
> Guess that is why I have 5 websites I can't make a decision on!


That's exactly what I wanted to avoid!! 

I think i'm going to have to play around with this a bit - maybe I can find a balance between the two extremes. 

I actually like the blue/grey background better - it's easier on the eyes...but I still want that WOW factor in there. 

The last thing I want is another 'same old, same old' site. 

This is becoming more difficult than I imagined!! :whistling2:


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## RCP

I know, crazy huh! Sometimes I think this website design stuff is a job better left to the pros! 
Here is another site I like
http://www.meodedpaints.com/

I have about 40 sites bookmarked that all have something I like!


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## PressurePros

RCP said:


> I know, crazy huh! Sometimes I think this website design stuff is a job better left to the pros!
> Here is another site I like
> http://www.meodedpaints.com/
> 
> I have about 40 sites bookmarked that all have something I like!


That site, graphically, is about as good as it gets. Gorgeous. But, nowhere near enough text to rank for SEO..and it doesn't. I searched for "painters", "painting companies", and "painting contractors" and used los Angeles as the search city. That site did not appear in any of those search terms and I went three pages in. To be fair i went back and looked at the home page and looked for the niche "decorative painters Los Angeles" in Google.. nada. 

That's stuff to take into consideration, Alec. Graphic designers make nice looking sites but generally have terrible coding and worse SEO. They also do not write selling copy. If you find a company that makes fine designs, understands SEO and has command of marketing and the English language, you had better be prepared to shell out about $2,000 per page.

I'll leave you with this. Understanding how a program works will still not distill that creative portion of the brain artists are born with. Focus on that which will make you money. The rest is ego. Try looking around the internet and just copying some design features you like. Read some of the sites that will help educate you on modern trends of selling and design. I think researching before you jump back in may give you better clarity.


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## RCP

I'll bet you are glad you asked now Rcon!:wallbash:


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## capitalcity painting

No offense to anyone on here especially the ones contributing to this thread but I was just wandering if there is a web design forum where web designers are painting there own houses with pics and getting advice from other web designers on how to do so properly and get professional results.


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## RCP

Of course there is! http://www.webmaster-talk.com/ 
I agree, I even mentioned hiring a pro in a previous post. 
We are a bunch that deplores hacks and advocates hiring a pro when it comes to painting, but think it is perfectly fine to be our own web designers, accountants, marketing directors, etc.!
But, there are things we like to learn and do ourselves, this is a great place for it. I think you need to know your capabilities and limitations, and decide if it is really the best use of your time.
Plus, what else would we do in the winter?


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## capitalcity painting

RCP said:


> http://www.webmaster-talk.com/
> 
> Plus, what else would we do in the winter?


Good point I like to do alot of things in the winter, I just ordered some software to help me learn Spanish. But I have to ask, what else would a teacher do in the summer besides paint?:jester:


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## Rcon

RCP said:


> I'll bet you are glad you asked now Rcon!:wallbash:


Haha it's all good, this is the slowet time of year so I really have nothing better to do than work on this website 

I brought back the black! And this time I think i'm getting closer to having a layout that works. Still needs lots of tweaking, still need to add flash buttons, hyperlinks and a few more graphics, but it's getting better :thumbsup: testpage


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## daArch

Alec,

As everyone states, I am very impressed with your resolve and results of learning the software.

I am glad you went to 800 px wide, I was going to mention that.

The black background can be tough to do properly, but with your criteria of having a 'different' and 'contemporary' look, you're on the right track. And BTW, being one whose life is centered on design, I think that design of a website IS important. I think the business we are in calls for our websites to be clean, concise, and well designed. There is also a "30 second rule" in web design, especially with the home page. People are impatient, they WILL make up their minds in 30 seconds if they stay on a web site or not. If it is cluttered and too much text, they will move on. Give it to them quick, make sure you capture them in that first 30 seconds so that they explore deeper. You want that WOW factor that impresses them. 

Some say that a "landing page" should be 800 x 600 px so that no scrolling is involved. This is not a law, just the feeling of many web designers. 

The PDCA used to have a landing page FULL of news items, pictures, links, and who can remember what other crap. It was a real pain and not a pleasant chore to read through. Now look what they done: http://pdca.org

We are in the process of redesigning the ngpp website. I hope you can see why: http://ngpp.org

Now as far as specifics on your site. The lettering with the "fade to gray" is hard to read. You can not assume everyone's monitor is adjusted correctly. I would suggest making the contrast a little more distinct between the lettering and the background. Your top left logo reads, "Rcon PAINTIN " with the G totally lost. And your "PROFESSIONAL RESULTS" are missing the top 1/4 of the letters. Your menu choices fade many letters into black until they can not be seen.

I like this test page better than the orig. And the middle two pix are still very out of focus.

I hope this helps. I know how much "fun" it is to work on something like this. I also know how invaluable constructive criticism is. And remember, you WILL NOT please everyone, you will have to make up YOUR mind what best represents you and go with it - especially when it comes to representing yourself and your company with graphic design. How a web page looks is just as important as how your business card, your clothes, and your vehicle look. They all represent YOU - not me, not Chris, not Ken, not no one else. 

good luck, I look forward to watching your progress.


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## daArch

*old PDCA site*

Alec,

I just checked the internet archives,(http://webarchive.org) and they had this old PDCA home page from Oct 2007:

http://web.archive.org/web/20071012042143/http://www.pdca.org/

I think you can see the direction they took with the new one. Think about it.


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## PressurePros

Here is a cool video done by a rapping website guy. its hard for me to understand so you may have to listen close but what he is saying in the "song" is gospel.






Here are the words:

Your site design is the first thing people see
it should be reflective of you and the industry
easy to look at with a nice navigation
when you can't find what you want it causes frustration
a clear Call to action to increase the temptation
use appealing graphics they create motivation
if you have animation
use with moderation
cause search engines can't index the information
display the logos of all your associations
highlight your contact info that's an obligation
create a clean design you can use some decoration
but to try to prevent any client hesitation
every page that they click should provide an explanation
should be easy to understand like having a conversation
when you design the style go ahead and use your imagination
but make sure you use correct color combinations
do some investigation, look at other organizations
but don't duplicate or you might face a litigation
design done, congratulations but it's time to start construction
follow these instructions when you move into production
your photoshop functions then slice that design
do your layout with divs make sure that it's aligned
please don't use tables even though they work fine
when it come to indexing they give searches a hard time
make it easy for the spiders to crawl what you provide
remove font type, font color and font size
no background colors, keep your coding real neat, 
tag your look and feel on a separate style sheet
better results with xml and css
now you making progress, a lil closer to success
describe your doctype so the browser can relate
make sure you do it great or it won't validate
check in all browsers, I do it directly
gotta make sure that it renders correctly
some use IE, some others use Flock
some use AOL, I use Firefox
title everything including links and images
don't use italics, use emphasis
don't use bold, please use strong
if you use bold that's old and wrong
when you use CSS, you page will load quicker
client satisfied like they eating on a snicker
they stuck on your page like you made it with a sticker
and then they convert now that's the real kicker
make you a lil richer, your site a lil slicker
design and code right man I hope you get the picture
what I'm telling you is true man it should be a scripture
if it's built right you'll be the pick of the litter
everyone will want to follow you like twitter
competition will get bitter and you'll shine like glitter
if you trying to grow your company will get bigger
design and code right man can you get with it


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## Rcon

daArch said:


> Alec,
> 
> I just checked the internet archives,(http://webarchive.org) and they had this old PDCA home page from Oct 2007:
> 
> http://web.archive.org/web/20071012042143/http://www.pdca.org/
> 
> I think you can see the direction they took with the new one. Think about it.


That's actually a really great idea! 

I did some more reading, and having a 'landing page' that is clean, clear, and makes it EASY for people to find what they're looking for right away seems to be the consencus. Perhaps i'll whip something up in flash and use that as a home page. 

Those 'blurry photos' ... they were purposely photographed that way, to draw attention to the woodwork and have the background fade away - but since you're the second person to mention that, i'm going to assume the effect didn't work the way I wanted it to. 

Thanks for pointing out the graphics fading too much into the black background - I can see them on my PC but I agree, they need more contrast. 

Thanks for the input :thumbsup:


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## PressurePros

A friend from the PW industry just released his site. Here is an example of a dark background done well. Its really about getting the text to pop out and be legible. 

http://www.cleanimagepressurewash.com/

PS: Don't use a flash homepage. It will not rank in Google.


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## Rcon

PressurePros said:


> A friend from the PW industry just released his site. Here is an example of a dark background done well. Its really about getting the text to pop out and be legible.
> 
> http://www.cleanimagepressurewash.com/
> 
> PS: Don't use a flash homepage. It will not rank in Google.


That is a nice website! 

I wasn't going to make the homepage in flash - just a slideshow on the landing page, like the one on the PDCA site. 

I think my problem here is that i've been stuck on a certain layout style - and I can't make it work. Too old fashioned maybe - and I want modern. But i've gleaned a couple of new ideas from here. 

Back to the drawing board once more


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## daArch

Here's what Parodi said when he thought I was advocating using flash on the landing page as the PDCA did.



Parodi said:


> The photo below is what happens when a user loads the pdca site with Internet Explorer with security settings on "high." There is no usable information as to how many people ---who are virus-freaked--have the highest security which disables Active X controls. So even though Adobe claims that 97% of computers have Flash nobody knows how many are blocking it. I have nothing against Flash but I would rather not have it on the Landing page.


IOW, some browsers set to high security may not show it. I have no idea the real percentage. Just food for thought.


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## CApainter

All of you are awesome for sharing your knowledge. Great job getting started rcon! Please don't reply! This is not a cheap attempt to garnish Thanks Yous. Just an honest acknowledgment.


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## Rcon

hmmm ... something to think about anyway. Maybe a static image then, at least on the landing page. 

I'm reworking the whole page concept, from layout to background (staying dark, but going to use texture and gradient). Reconsidering size as well, thinking I may try to keep the pages short so there's minimal scrolling required. Just playing with the "fixed vs liquid" templates ATM. 

So many options - too many, actually!!


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## Rcon

CApainter said:


> All of you are awesome for sharing your knowledge.


Amen to that!!!! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

I honestly don't know what i'd do without all the helpful advice from this board. :notworthy:


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## daArch

CApainter said:


> This is not a cheap attempt to garnish Thanks Yous.


You can give me his . just three more and I hit 300 !!!!


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## nEighter

I just fought my site for a week. I had my files saved as CMYK and not in RGB. Firefox (my browser like code rapper up there  ) will actually figure stuff out where as IE just plays stuck up and won't work unless it is perfect. SO that is a biggie if you didn't know. 

Ken, I like those containers with the rounded edges. I will end up doing that.. I just did mine like it is to get by for a while. I don't like cookie cutter, I want to stand out, don't want to be like everyone else, although I am nowhere done, It feels good it is not a template like alot of sites out there.


Keep it up Rcon. Ask up any questions, see if we can scrape up some answers for ya.


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## nEighter

oh and go to http://browsershots.org/ to see what other browsers see.


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