# Best Way to Remove



## paintbydesign

Hey All,

I just posted on ContractorTalk.com, so I'm sorry if any of you are reading this for a second time. I just got my first request for wallpaper removal, and I'm curious to know what the general consensus is for the quickest, most effective, and most efficient way of doing this. There are tons of chemicals to aid in the removal, but are they even necessary? If so, what's the best to use? Is it possible to just sand the wallpaper with a DA sander and scrape it off without using any chemicals?

Thanks in advance!


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## chrisn

http://www.wallpaperinstaller.com/wallpaper_stripping.html


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## Rich

paintbydesign said:


> Is it possible to just sand the wallpaper with a DA sander and scrape it off without using any chemicals?


not usually...the most essential part is removing all or most of the adhesive residue-usually the only way to effectively do that is using product/water

not saying it can't be done, because I've done a small area like that, but it's real messy/dusty/nasty/etc


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## slickshift

paintbydesign said:


> ....the quickest, most effective, and most efficient way of doing this....


There's no _one_ good way that works for every situation, as the covering may have been applied a number of ways, correctly or incorrectly, and a number of years ago, and may be of a few different types and qualities

The removal for a recent thick covering properly applied over paint with sizing will be way different from a 50 year old thin paper directly to the uncoated sheetrock


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## paintbydesign

Thanks for the two cents, guys! Do ya'll have a fav chemical remover that you would suggest?


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## slickshift

Just water if I can get it to work
If not, then DIF


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## chrisn

http://www.safeandsimple.com/


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## Rich

slickshift said:


> Just water if I can get it to work
> If not, then DIF


ditto


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## Tmrrptr

Sounds like the client is cutting corners... You can paint over the paper if its in good shape and adhered well. But it won't last.
We do it, from time to time...
r


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## ProWallGuy

Tmrrptr said:


> Sounds like the client is cutting corners... You can paint over the paper if its in good shape and adhered well. But it won't last.
> We do it, from time to time...
> r


 :no:


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## Tmrrptr

Wha?
Is that SO bad Pro?
I've also textured over wallpaper, for a quick fix on crummy paper...
r


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## T200

*Painting over wallpaper*



Tmrrptr said:


> Wha?
> Is that SO bad Pro?
> I've also textured over wallpaper, for a quick fix on crummy paper...
> r


We sometimes paint over paper when the customer insists, but I recommend removal. We've painted over previously-painted-over wallpaper a few times and have had bubbles form in the paper. Based on my experience, I believe it's likely that will happen with 2nd or subsequent repaints. If it's in an area where there may be moisture (e.g., bathroom), I believe there's also a likelihood that peeling at seams/edges could occur.


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## Nathan

Welcome to the site T200! When you get a chance post a new thread in the introductions forum and let us know a little about yourself.

Thanks!


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## thepaintermanuk

I use a paper tiger and an airless spray gun with water,let the paper soak for at least25 mins and spray again.After a while most papers give in and come off no problem.

If it's stubborn add a little washing up liquid to the water,again spray,but this time place a polythene sheet on the wall you've sprayed,this prevents the water evaporating out so it must be absorbed by the paper (or loosen off vinyls).


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## ProWallGuy

PaintermanUK, do you see more *plaster* walls compared to *drywall* walls?


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## chrisn

and an airless spray gun with water,

Be sure and wear a respirator if spraying Diff with that sprayer,trust me.:blink:


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## Tmrrptr

Hey! this IS great... we got a The, and an UK paintermanS

Gosh UK, I don't think I want to use up my pump to spray water, or water w dif in it... pump up garden sprayer or sponge in a bucket works fine for me.

T200... Yup, get those blisters almost every time... maybe EVERY time!
Point is, thats all the client wanted to pay for.
They usually go back down, but if there are only a couple at a high vis location I'll cut out boats and hit it with the fast set.

If it's in a wet room... well, it's probably got to be stripped!

Cut rate methods are never optimal, but sometimes its what the job IS.


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## jackrabbit5

Tmrrptr said:


> Gosh UK, I don't think I want to use up my pump to spray water, or water w dif in it... pump up garden sprayer or sponge in a bucket works fine for me.


I'll bet you'd change your attitude real quick if you had 22,000 sq. ft. of wallpaper to remove.:whistling2:


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## Tmrrptr

How much did I lose on THAT bet?


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## jackrabbit5

Tmrrptr said:


> How much did I lose on THAT bet?


Depends. How much ya got? :jester:


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## thepaintermanuk

ProWallGuy said:


> PaintermanUK, do you see more *plaster* walls compared to *drywall* walls?


ProWallGuy..

I'd say 90% of work I do has plaster walls.

Most of my work is high end residential in the UK.These are the kind of houses which may be about 80-100 years old,large rooms for over here 19'x13' roughly,all plastered.

New build is all drywall and there is alot of new builds going up so the ratio will change,but Aberdeen where I am based has alot of traditional granite houses all of which are plastered,and if there are problems it is re-plastered not sheeted.
A plasterer here can easily make $1100-1500 a day if they are good.
Running cornice is about $120 per metre.



I'd never use a sponge and water,too slow,the garden pump,yep done that but the sprayer will save alot of time.

Not sure hwo you do things but we price here (quote) so the quicker the job is completed the more we make.
I never estimate I quote I am confident enough to know my job so happy to quote rather than estimate.
You can get it wrong sometimes but not very often.

If I happen to be hanging on drywall my procedure would,firstly make sure any filling etc is done,then i would PVA my walls as a sealer,I even leave a card with the customer,which tells the other decorator,if it's not me,just to soak the walls and the paper will come off fine when it's time to re-decorate.
I realise that yoy guys will probably rarely see plastered walls so it's kinda the opposite way around for us but I learn alot from forums like this (you can NEVER know enough about your trade it's constant learning).


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## Tmrrptr

This was the last wallpaper we painted over.
They just wanted the intensity to go away.
Imagine that!
Latex primer + two semi topcoats. Came out fine.
We got paid and never looked back.
Oh, it was a flipper.
.


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## timhag

Tmrrptr said:


> This was the last wallpaper we painted over.
> They just wanted the intensity to go away.
> Imagine that!
> Latex primer + two semi topcoats. Came out fine.
> We got paid and never looked back.
> Oh, it was a flipper.
> .


Correct me if i'm wrong, I thought that latex primer would activate some of the clue causing bubbles to form. When painting over wallpaper is oil primer to be used? 
Thanks


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## Tmrrptr

Tim, someone wiser than I may feel alkyd primer is the bomb...

I use pva on a porous/absorbent paper.
This was vinyl wallpaper... real hi dollar stuff/NOT.

Only get bubbles and blisters if it's not adhered well from the gate.

Paper SHOULD be stripped.

(Remember the 2 out of 3 options?)


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## timhag

Tmrrptr said:


> Paper SHOULD be stripped.


:yes::thumbup::yes::thumbup::yes::thumbup:


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## Z paint

*closets*

i usually oil prime the paper if its in good shape and its a closet...i use dif and a pump sprayer is dif really that bad for u when its airbourne

we must strive to become better ancestors--Ralph nader


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## Safety Guy

Fabric softener will work to strip paper, same procedure as with Diff, garden sprayer for smaller areas, plus it smells good.


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## Z paint

thats good to know...i might have to try that if i run out of dif and i dont want to run to the store


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## Paul_R

Safety Guy, I too use fabric softener. Have had really good results. I don't know which is more environmentally friendly, fabric softener, or DIF?:001_unsure: Also I do not use oil primer any more. At least for interior work. I would not recommend painting over wall paper, as too many variables could ruin the results. Although years ago, before I knew better, an elderly lady wanted me to paint over some loose wall paper, I cautioned her against the practice, but she instructed me to use masking tape to tape the loose edges. I proceeded with the job, and fought with paper loosening up as I painted, throughout the entire job. What a nightmare. Again, it was in my younger days.

Happy painting, Paul.


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## cole191919

Paul_R said:


> I cautioned her against the practice, but she instructed me to use masking tape to tape the loose edges.


Yikes!  Holmes on Homes is gonna come knocking on your door soon


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## EricTheHandyman

There is a newer product/system in my area called Wallwik. I've had good luck with it.
http://www.wallwik.com/


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## Paul_R

Hey Cole, I like Holmes. I wish I could go on a "mission" with him.:notworthy: I have seen some of his nightmare jobs on TV. I think he is an above board guy, and although his methods seem extreme, I would bet that every thing works well.:thumbup:

Happy painting, and wall paper stripping, Paul.


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## cole191919

Paul_R said:


> I wish I could go on a "mission" with him.:notworthy:


I hear ya. I love watching his show, especially when he just absolutely demolishes bad contractor work. As a viewer you can actually learn a thing or 2 if you pay attention.


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## Rossiter Painting

To strip wallpaper. I used a paper Tiger and Some vinegar water in a spray bottle. And scrape it off with an old 3 inch spackle knife. And then sponge the walls down with soapy water.


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## Paul_R

Never used vinegar, but I have used fabric softener, with good results. 

Happy painting, Paul.


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## welovepainting

vinagar and fabric softener


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## Rossiter Painting

Depending on how much you strip. Fabric softener seems like an expensive way to strip wallpaper. Do you thin it?


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## Bibleman

Let's also remember that the hotter the water or solution the better. Funny that there's a controversy over painting over the paper since that's exactly what I'm doing today.:whistling2: To me it only makes sense as long as the customer knows why and what the risks are. Example. There are times that the paper WILL NOT come off without significant or even major damage to the drywall underneath. If the paper is down tight, seams are tight and it's a smooth paper, then it doesn't (in my opinion) make sense to go through the time, agony and mess to get the paper off, trash the walls and THEN have a huge repair/skim job on your hands if all you really had to do was caulk the corners, skim the seams, prime and paint. Of course you could still run into some bubbling and loose seams but generally touching up those areas are still alot less work than the other option. An oil primer also helps minimize problems in such situations.


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## ProWallGuy

Bibleman said:


> Let's also remember that the hotter the water or solution the better.


:no:
That is a myth. The _only_ time hot works better is in a small area such as a powder room where you can close the door and enjoy the steam effect.

The reason: Hot water evaporates much faster than cold. Cold or room temperature water will soften and reactivate w/c adhesive much faster this way. If you are soaking a room with hot water, it will dry out before it has time to penetrate the backing. :yes:


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## Bibleman

Being new to the forum I don't want to start anything, but I'm not new to the painting business. Hot water does everything faster - ever try a hot power washer compared to cold? Every try to wash dry paint from your hands or brush with hot water compared to cold? Ever try a steamer compared to cold water? Etc., etc. Furthermore, wallpaper backing paper is generally absorbent and holds the water quite well. Using a garden sprayer it's very easy to keep it wet unless one were to do something foolish like opening the windows and doors for a breeze. Try it side by side some time and you'll see. Or you can do it the hard way:whistling2:


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## ProWallGuy

I'm a paperhanger by trade, and have probably removed over 10,000 rolls in the past 20 years with every combination or paste/primer on the face of the earth. So I guess you are right. I will just keep on and:


Bibleman said:


> do it the hard way:whistling2:


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## Bibleman

Look, I don't want to get into an argument with you. I'm no novice either, as I mentioned elsewhere I've been in painting an papering since 1987 full time myself, removed and hung loads of paper as well and so I'm sure our experience is somewhat equal. I posted my info for the benefit of the guy who started the thread and hopefully he will judge for himself what works best for him. Personally, I'm happy to leave it at that


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## Chameleon

There is or was a product called GARDZ....this stuff was great, unfortunatley I havent seen it in a while. It also helped with damaged drywall skin.


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## Bibleman

They still have it here in NJ unless it's just overstock left on the shelf. It works pretty well but you still have to cut out a fair amount of bubbled drywall paper just like the fine print on the can indicates


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## chrisn

Personally, I'm happy to leave it at that

Probably a good idea,I don't think you are going to win that argument:no:


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## sothpaw painter

paper tiger and DIF GEL


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## mattrecov

do you guys cover switch plate holes/light fixtures? I have been working on a big stripping job in a funeral home about 9000sqft of stripping...we have just been pulling off the switch plates and spraying on diluted DIF with a pump sprayer after using a very large paper tiger...havent had any probs with electrocution yet...but could suck with all that h2o....also, have you guys had probs with all the liquids being used indoors...water damage to trim, carpets, etc? We havent but I'm worried about all the water thats running down behind the base moldings (stained oak)


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## tsunamicontract

mattrecov said:


> havent had any probs with electrocution yet...but could suck with all that h2o....also, have you guys had probs with all the liquids being used indoors...water damage to trim, carpets, etc? We havent but I'm worried about all the water thats running down behind the base moldings (stained oak)


this is a good concern, how does everyone deal with this? But do people still really use DIF and paper tigers? I used that combo once, never bothered again. Plus the tiger ruined the wall.


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## daArch

A Zinsser rep, Jim Hoffman, came to one of our chapter meetings to promote their line of pastes, and part of the presentation was about other Zinsser products, including the Paper Tiger. The conversation went something like this, 
“It’s funny” Jim said, “the Paper Tiger has been around forever……” 
“yah” was heard a voice in the back, “it’s been destroying walls FOREVER”. 
To which Jim was quick to respond, “That’s why we have Ready Patch” 

As I've said in other threads, 36 grit in a palm sander works great at busting through whatever is preventing the solution from reaching the paste. If you got a vacuum sander, even better. 

And yes, covering switches and outlets is a damn good idea. I've heard stories of expensive rheostats being cooked.


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## tntpainting

both water and chems work personal preference i guess


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## Dan Brady

HOT water, Diff and pump up sprayer, saturate the wallpaper, let set for 15 min. if it doesn't come off in full sheets, repeat step 1. Most people get inpatient and start to pull the paper once they see it bubbling, let it set the the full duration and it will come off in full sheets, if it doesn't saturate the wall with solution and let set another 10 to 15min. As long as the wall has been sized it will work.


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## daArch

Dan Brady said:


> HOT water, Diff and pump up sprayer, saturate the wallpaper, let set for 15 min. if it doesn't come off in full sheets, repeat step 1. Most people get inpatient and start to pull the paper once they see it bubbling, let it set the the full duration and it will come off in full sheets, if it doesn't saturate the wall with solution and let set another 10 to 15min. As long as the wall has been sized it will work.


First, welcome Dan. where do you hail from?

Second, if you do a wee bit of searching of this Bulletin Board you will find many of us who think Safe and Simple works better than DIF.

Not only does it work faster but it has no NOXIOUS odor. (Read the label on DIF and note the part about ventilation or respirator). Safe and Simple don't smell bad and is SAFE. Unwittingly the owner of Safe and Simple proved this by mistakenly taking a swig, thinking it was lemonade.

Anyway, hope you feel at home here and can receive as well as giving

-Bill



EDIT MANY WEEKS LATE:  Safe and Simple (I have no idea what happened. Apologies to all, especially to Mike Z at S&S


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## JNLP

daArch said:


> First, welcome Dan. where do you hail from?
> 
> Second, if you do a wee bit of searching of this Bulletin Board you will find many of us who think Safe and Simple works better than DIF.
> 
> Not only does it work faster but it has no NOXIOUS odor. (Read the label on DIF and note the part about ventilation or respirator). Safe and Simple don't smell bad and is SAFE. Unwittingly the owner of Safe and Simple proved this by mistakenly taking a swig, thinking it was lemonade.
> 
> Anyway, hope you feel at home here and can receive as well as giving
> 
> -Bill


Bill... I clicked on your link, and it gave me the finger. What's up with that buddy? :glare:


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## chrisn

I clicked on your link, and it gave me the finger. :blink:


Try this

http://www.safeandsimple.com/


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## Canadian Painter

Another option- which I find works a bit better than spraying hot water is a steamer. I actually use an old clothes steamer and it seems to speed things up quite a bit.


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## mjkpainting

We use vinegar and hot water and put it in a pump sprayer and some spray bottles. 

Make sure you oil prime before applying latex

A suggestion would be to charge by the hour until the the walls are stripped and prepped.

One of my first jobs (I had no clue what I was doing) I was literally working for about 20 cents an hour stripping wallpaper and painting a 4,000 square foot colonial.

Funny story that same job I told the the H/O that there was a 6% tax in Connecticut and if he paid me cash we could eliminate it. He proceeded to tell me he was an auditor for the IRS and I shouldn't be charging sales tax for residential painting work in CT. Of course I argued with him having no clue what I was talking about. He also told me if I was smart I should claim the job.

Come to find out he was right. I wasn't supposed to be charging CT sales tax. Just my luck


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## boman47k

Bibleman? Ever have the hot water to go out while showering? Cold water only will make the shower a lot quicker! :jester:

Sorry, couldn't resist.


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## mjkpainting

Chameleon said:


> There is or was a product called GARDZ....this stuff was great, unfortunatley I havent seen it in a while. It also helped with damaged drywall skin.



I have been hearing a lot about this product GARDZ. I looked it up and it's a water base. In what situations would it be appropriate to use it??????? Is it a cover stain too???


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## JAYJAY




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## daArch

mjkpainting said:


> I have been hearing a lot about this product GARDZ. I looked it up and it's a water base. In what situations would it be appropriate to use it??????? Is it a cover stain too???


NO, it is not a cover stain !!!

as you know, the new VOV laws have castrated all alkyd paints, primers, and sealers. they can not be relied on to seal and properly provide a good base over residue paste nor can they be relied on to provide a good base on which to install wallpaper.

Zinsser Gardz is a is a pretty good imitation of Draw-tite which is a superb waterborne penetrating sealer. When dried, it does not rewet like acrylic or vinyl latex when wallcoverings are installed over it. 

As we all know the waterbornes are making great strides in replacing the "oils".
Every year new products are doing what we could never have dreamed they would do back in the 70's


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## Donnybakr

When you use that product do you still have to score the paper with a paper tiger?


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## WisePainter

Donnybakr said:


> When you use that product do you still have to score the paper with a paper tiger?



You still selling that boat Donny?


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## Andyman

I agree that properly hung wallpaper is not difficult to remove. What are some options to remove wallpaper that is not hung properly like glued to the drywall?


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## daArch

What are you talkling about ? residential paper? Commercial vinyl? Commercial vinyl should be able to be dry stripped. 

Painting over paper is absolutely the last resort. Sometimes one can gently with coronor type knife skills with a wallpaper shaver, coax the paper off raw rock after judicious wetting. It ain't gonna happen each time, but it should be tried. Even the wallwick system but with paste used instead of their solution, can soften the bond of paper to raw rock.

IF all else fails, unfortunately painting over paper may be the only solution. But make sure you go around and remove all loose areas and sand smooth all seams. I would use a Drywall Repair Coat (DRC) like Gardz or Draw-tite as the first coat to penetrate, bind, and seal.


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## Andyman

Residential paper. I have a client with 2 layers of wallpaper in her kitchen that needs to be removed. The first layer was not properly hung. The second was professionally done.


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## wallpaperremoval pro

never paint over wallpaper


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## BrushJockey

Paper tigers cut the paper into small pieces so you have no possibility of getting big ones, and most ofter puncture the wall needing a skim coat then,
Don't use 'em.
I just put this on the other thread, but it really really works- soak a couple of times ( read Arch's posts) then cover with 4' sections of plastic to prevent drying. As good as the wallwick I think and you've already got the plastic.


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## lugi

:no:


Tmrrptr said:


> Sounds like the client is cutting corners... You can paint over the paper if its in good shape and adhered well. But it won't last.
> We do it, from time to time...
> r


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## daArch

BrushJockey said:


> ( read Arch's posts)



Christ! I just read my post and it made no sense !!! I should NOT try writing sober anymore - heck, Hemingway couldn't do it :thumbup:

Absolutely true about the perforating tools. They are not as good as scuffing through a layer of vinyl or paint as 36 grit in a palm sander (or your favorite dustless sander) AND a heavy hand will score the wall.

As I wrote in another post today, after breaking through whatever moisture barrier there may be, coat the surface with Roman Professional 880 paste. Why 880? Because it has the longest "wet out" time of any paste. Next cover the walls with thin plastic drop cloths - this prevents the 880 from drying. There's a 50 - 50 chance that the paste will not dry and need another coat, but check it after a few hours to make sure. The last time I did this, it was a pulp paper on a blankstock liner and we needed to preserve the liner. It took about six hours for the paste to properly soak through and loosen the original paste. Your mileage will differ. 

If the paper was hung with a real GLUE (as opposed to wallpaper PASTE) or a vinyl over vinyl paste, you might as well just paint over. That paper is prolly better adhered to the raw rock than any of the cardboard facing.


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## chrisn

The second was professionally done.

Doesn't mean sh*t to a tree!


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