# Is it worth it?



## csbeepee

I've been getting inquiries about lead paint recently and there is apparently a shortage of RRP contractors in the area. Is Lead Paint Renovation worth the headache???? I've heard many guys get into it and end up getting out because of many different reasons... I was just curious what your thoughts are. Thanks.


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## kmp

I got certified and there is a fair amount of lead base paint around where I live but nobody wants to pay for all the expense it entails. Plus the rules change and nothing you do is right. I've been fortunate in that most of my work has been built after 1978. Could be good in the right market. Also around here not many inspectors from the EPA so little chance of getting caught. I will probably renew my license when it is up because it is easier than taking the class again.


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## Epoxy Pro

We were doing a lot of rrp jobs. Its hard brutal work. We are not taking any more on. If your numbers are off at all it hura bad, if right on its a nice payday.

Around here 6 out of 10 homes contain lead and we will keep our license but not taking on huge jobs like this any more.


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## PRC

It has been worth the time and $$ for me to be certified and train my guys.
As has been mentioned, not everyone wants to pay for the extra and you have to pass on it. But some want it done right and those jobs do pay if you bid right or do t&m.


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## Epoxy Pro

PRC said:


> It has been worth the time and $$ for me to be certified and train my guys.
> As has been mentioned, not everyone wants to pay for the extra and you have to pass on it. But some want it done right and those jobs do pay if you bid right or do t&m.


I learned t&m is the best way for us. Locked price it hasn't worked out. A full blown paint shaver job and back sanding, new blades and paper is a lot of money alone.


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## 2peterhunter

We are certified, the person teaching the class was extremely sarcastic with the rules. We just do very minimum amount of specialty. I tried bidding jobs out as a RRP certified company and got laughed at because of my pricing! The majority of painters around here are not certified and most certainly do not test for lead!


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## DynaPLLC

I subcontract the lead part to a certified company. I come back and finish after that's taken care of. Less headache for me and the less I deal with lead the better for my health. I take in enough dust and solvent fumes , don't need to add lead to that list too.


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## kdpaint

Just heard a interview on NPR about lead and how the EPA has only gone after 3 companies in my state since 2010. I know someone who painted the workmen's comp building who didn't follow RRP in any way. Used a Blast-Vac loaded with black beauty on 130 year old interior brick walls with 1/2" of paint on them. Had some plastic up to "contain" the dust, but the whole building was dusted with brick/lead dust.

His company was not one of the three the EPA went after.

Lead jobs are a nightmare in terms of costs, especially for a small operator. It's not a niche to get into.


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## DynaPLLC

same thing for asbestos. Who wants to scrape asbestos loaded popcorn?
Those that do, charge a lot. HO hires cheap workers to skim the pop and call you back to prime and paint.

If you can stay away from these kind of jobs, you better do it. Otherwise 2 things usually happen. You overcharge and don't get the job, or you undercharge and, well, work for free.

Lead jobs that are actually worth doing are rare these days.


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## Epoxy Pro

2peterhunter said:


> We are certified, the person teaching the class was extremely sarcastic with the rules. We just do very minimum amount of specialty. I tried bidding jobs out as a RRP certified company and got laughed at because of my pricing! The majority of painters around here are not certified and most certainly do not test for lead!


Some one on the crew around here has to be licensed and some one certified for onsite. Just your cert wont cut it here. As you all know we have 2 lead inspectors learking round.

We would do another lead job but it would have to be another Queen Anne Victorian style.


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## PRC

kdpaint said:


> Just heard a interview on NPR about lead and how the EPA has only gone after 3 companies in my state since 2010. I know someone who painted the workmen's comp building who didn't follow RRP in any way. Used a Blast-Vac loaded with black beauty on 130 year old interior brick walls with 1/2" of paint on them. Had some plastic up to "contain" the dust, but the whole building was dusted with brick/lead dust.
> 
> His company was not one of the three the EPA went after.
> 
> Lead jobs are a nightmare in terms of costs, especially for a small operator. It's not a niche to get into.


Unless something has changed then commercial buildings like that one are exempt from RRP unless they house the same child more than 6 hrs/week, ie. daycare and schools


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## kdpaint

PRC said:


> Unless something has changed then commercial buildings like that one are exempt from RRP unless they house the same child more than 6 hrs/week, ie. daycare and schools


The adjacent space was a daycare/arts program, sharing back hallway and exits. An employee from the workmen's comp company came down and was like "WTH?!?!?" because of all the dust on the floors and all over the stainless elevator doors. It was a clown show. The GC for the restaurant reno just sent a guy with a roll of shop towels and a spray bottle of windex to go clean up.


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## csbeepee

Ok.. So my initial thoughts were validated. Not worth it for me! There are plenty of pre-1978 homes around here, but no one would be willing to pay to have it done right. It's hard enough to find people who want a proper paint job as it is...


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## Roamer

The costs to perform RRP jobs is not prohibitive. We've done hundreds of RRP jobs since 2010. We have two going on right now. Once you get the hang of using plastic instead of drop cloths and cleaning up after yourself after the prep portion of the work then it's a breeze. 

We have an office manager that manages the paperwork portion and we've streamlined that process.

Other contractors may not be certified in your area but if you are then it will set you apart. 

As for enforcement: not long after the RRP was enacted the EPA's budget was cut. That was 6 years ago. Now the EPA is ramping back up and are starting to enforce the rules. Below is a list of recent penalties levied by the EPA. 

http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpres...0d3d2dbe30561bad85257eeb00698fc7!OpenDocument

This thing is not going away. It may take another 10 years but within that time everyone will have to be certified.


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## canopainting

what is the name of that form that lets the customer know of lead hazards that you give to the customer when you give them the estimate and where can you find it?


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## chrisn

canopainting said:


> what is the name of that form that lets the customer know of lead hazards that you give to the customer when you give them the estimate and where can you find it?


http://www.leadpaintepasupplies.com/renovate-right-pamphlet-no-charge-english-grayscale-pdf-file/


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## paintball head

Roamer said:


> The costs to perform RRP jobs is not prohibitive. We've done hundreds of RRP jobs since 2010. We have two going on right now. Once you get the *hang of using plastic instead of drop cloths* and cleaning up after yourself after the prep portion of the work then it's a breeze.
> 
> We have an office manager that manages the paperwork portion and we've streamlined that process.
> 
> Other contractors may not be certified in your area but if you are then it will set you apart.
> 
> As for enforcement: not long after the RRP was enacted the EPA's budget was cut. That was 6 years ago. Now the EPA is ramping back up and are starting to enforce the rules. Below is a list of recent penalties levied by the EPA.
> 
> http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpres...0d3d2dbe30561bad85257eeb00698fc7!OpenDocument
> 
> This thing is not going away. It may take another 10 years but within that time everyone will have to be certified.


I took the class but didn't apply for my license. I'm not real sure if I want to do these jobs. One thing that really stands out as a problem for me is plastic instead of drops...guys walking on plastic is scary (slippery) on top of that what if it's a roof section that a guy would need to stand on? Our instructor had few answers for some issues, total joke.


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## chrisn

paintball head said:


> I took the class but didn't apply for my license. I'm not real sure if I want to do these jobs. One thing that really stands out as a problem for me is plastic instead of drops...guys walking on plastic is scary (slippery) on top of that what if it's a roof section that a guy would need to stand on? Our instructor had few answers for some issues, total joke.


Just because you have a license does not mean you have to do the work. I have had a license for 5 years and have not done one RRP job


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## Gough

Roamer said:


> The costs to perform RRP jobs is not prohibitive. We've done hundreds of RRP jobs since 2010. We have two going on right now. Once you get the hang of using plastic instead of drop cloths and cleaning up after yourself after the prep portion of the work then it's a breeze.
> 
> We have an office manager that manages the paperwork portion and we've streamlined that process.
> 
> Other contractors may not be certified in your area but if you are then it will set you apart.
> 
> As for enforcement: not long after the RRP was enacted the EPA's budget was cut. That was 6 years ago. Now the EPA is ramping back up and are starting to enforce the rules. Below is a list of recent penalties levied by the EPA.
> 
> http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpres...0d3d2dbe30561bad85257eeb00698fc7!OpenDocument
> 
> This thing is not going away. It may take another 10 years but within that time everyone will have to be certified.


For any company with employees that had been following OSHA's Lead in Construction Rule, RRP wasn't a big step. Unlike RRP, the OSHA rules actually cover PPE. To minimize lead dust and reduce the PPE requirements, we've been using HEPA vacs on our sanders since the early '90s.


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