# Your preferred Interior Paint brand



## beedoola (May 18, 2015)

KM, BM, SW, Behr. What company do you like for interior paint? 

Do you uses different brands for different finishes; i.e one brand for walls/ceiling, another for trim?


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

-BM 508 for ceilings
-SW Cashmere for walls, (although BM's Aura & RS are great, I feel like I can achieve the same results with Cashmere for much less $).
-PPG Breakthrough is quickly becoming my fav for woodwork.

I do have to admit though, I need to re-acquaint myself with KM's products. Just not readily available anymore here, although they've got some great paints for sure.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Pratt & lambert, California. Muralo, Graham, Fixall, Greyseal, Progress, Kwal.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

Color place from Walmart.


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## The Cutting Edge (May 25, 2014)

Pratt and Lambert red seal or PPG manor hall on walls.
PPG ceiling paint.
Manor hall on trim.
I used Breakthrough last week on cabinets. Didn't care for it at all. Gonna try it once more on doors maybe. Probably just use Manor Hall next time for cabinets.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

I heard Ben Moore was the bee's knees.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

premium is best you try sopremiumperfectpaint you like. hotdog yes?


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## beedoola (May 18, 2015)

Anyone try the KM Dura Poxy? And have any of you been using Matte vs. Flat for walls? Thoughts?


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

beedoola said:


> Anyone try the KM Dura Poxy? And have any of you been using Matte vs. Flat for walls? Thoughts?


I've seen Matte be quite possible right now, especially in deep colors. It seems to add a bit of depth in the look, and in higher quality coatings it's also much more durable than flat with relatively small amount of visual difference. It's the flavor-of-the-week, so to speak, with designers right now as well in my opinion.


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## Qualitypainting812 (Jan 29, 2014)

We mostly do new construction for a cheap builder 
CHB on the ceilings
Sher-scrub on the walls 
Latex pro classic on the trim, thinking of giving solo a go though.


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## The Cutting Edge (May 25, 2014)

Qualitypainting812 said:


> We mostly do new construction for a cheap builder
> CHB on the ceilings
> Sher-scrub on the walls
> Latex pro classic on the trim, thinking of giving solo a go though.


I used Solo quite a bit for trim and really like it. I still have a 5er in the van in bright white just to have on hand.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Mostly BM lately. Aura on walls and Regal or Advance for trim. Now that I've gotten used to it, Aura matte is hard to beat. Great finish, excellent hide and hold out. 

Lower budget jobs we use Ferrell Calhoon. It's....fine. 

I just can't get into Sherwin for residential stuff, though I like their industrial products.


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## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

BM Aura for interior walls and most exteriors
Advance for trim and doors
BM Ultra Flat for ceilings


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## Paint Chip (Dec 25, 2013)

BM Regal select for walls, BM Advance for trim/doors, BM 508 for ceilings. If same color flat ceiling/flat walls I use Regal select for both. For the rare cheapy I use Ben for walls, advance for trim/doors and PPG premium ceiling paint (which I like just as much as anything for ceilings. It's pure white and pretty flat)


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## Seth The Painter (Jun 24, 2015)

I use marquee for everything now it covers everything in one coat. :sly:


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## Mike2coat (Nov 12, 2013)

I like cashmere for walls and pro classic for doors and door frames. And chem aqua for cabinets. Promar 200 for ceilings


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## 38969 (Sep 3, 2015)

Regal ulti-matte for walls, Glidden Ultra-Hide for ceilings (the best for ceilings imo, hardly any problems).

My first post. Hello


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## Clearlycut (Dec 1, 2013)

Im almost convinced any "quality/premium" paint you can acheive elite results.

I prefer kelly moore paints.
Benjamin Moore is excellent as well. I think there very simlilar in apperance.
Kelly moore customer service is unmatched.


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## Zoomer (Dec 17, 2011)

Benjamin Moore across the board.
Super hide or ultra spec flat- ceilings
Ben or Regal-walls
Regal or Advance or any BM oil- doors and trim


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Seth The Painter said:


> I use marquee for everything now it covers everything in one coat. :sly:


itsopremiummarquee! goodness paint no? I make toy poopoo photo here! So funny!


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

ReNt A PaInTeR said:


> Color place from Walmart.


Honest to god you wouldn't believe how many "painters" around here use that.


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## stl911 (Jul 16, 2014)

i am kind BM guy now even though SW offers really attractive price to me. 

if customers want repaint because of selling the house, ultra spec for sure

if customers move to a new home, Ben, Regal and Aura depending on their budget

sometimes, i use Behr also even though it is too thick to paint it still have much better coverage than SW

I am doing repaint only


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## ExcelPaintingCo (Apr 16, 2011)

Exterior: MoorGard, MoorLife, MoorGlo. Interior: Regal Select, 508, Advance. Occasional ultra-spec, impervo, and aura.


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## goga (Aug 6, 2015)

KM, now Miller, for everything, tried many brands, sticking with the one that delivers every time.


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## beedoola (May 18, 2015)

Paint Chip said:


> BM Regal select for walls, BM Advance for trim/doors, BM 508 for ceilings. If same color flat ceiling/flat walls I use Regal select for both. For the rare cheapy I use Ben for walls, advance for trim/doors and PPG premium ceiling paint (which I like just as much as anything for ceilings. It's pure white and pretty flat)





Lambrecht said:


> BM Aura for interior walls and most exteriors
> Advance for trim and doors
> BM Ultra Flat for ceilings



Does the advance need any XIM extender added to it? I see it is supposed to flow and settle like oil-based paint. How does it cover with one coat?

The coverage info for the Regal says 400-500 sq ft and the Advance says
400-500, have you found the coverage abilities to be in that range?


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## Paint Chip (Dec 25, 2013)

I have not needed any kind of extender with advance. And I believe your not suppose to thin with anything but a touch of water. Levels out super nice. Advance covers 1 coat (same color) over previously painted surface. New work, prime and 2 coats. As far as coverage, advance goes a long way. Actual sq footage, not sure as I'm only painting trim. Regal I would say closer to 400 sq, not 400-500


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Advance has really nice leveling, and as Paint Chip mentioned you don't need to thin it with anything other than water if you do feel the need to thin. Application rates are pretty hard to tell for trim (for me, at least) but I've found them to be roughly accurate. As with all paints, one coat coverage depends on what it's going over.


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## beedoola (May 18, 2015)

I have two paint chips I hope the BM reps can match, so it would be covering the same shade.


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## Paint Chip (Dec 25, 2013)

beedoola said:


> I have two paint chips I hope the BM reps can match, so it would be covering the same shade.



You should probably be ok as long as the woodwork is not dirty, scuffed up ect... If it does need two coats, don't 2 coat it in the same day. Aura satin would fit the bill fore sure if one coat coverage on the woodwork is what you need


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## beedoola (May 18, 2015)

Paint Chip said:


> You should probably be ok as long as the woodwork is not dirty, scuffed up ect... If it does need two coats, don't 2 coat it in the same day. Aura satin would fit the bill fore sure if one coat coverage on the woodwork is what you need


I'm going to clean/wash all the trim, dry, then lightly sand, tacky cloth, prime any bare spots. Yeah, I can see giving it a full night's cure before a second coat.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

If you're going over the same color, it shouldn't necessarily require two coats. However, Advance tends to just get nicer and nicer as you do more coats. 2 slightly thinner coats can look better than 1 heavy due to the leveling. Some people do a very light sand in between coats as well. I've seen some people who spray do 1 coat primer, sand, 1 very light coat, then a final coat after the light one dries.

Make sure you don't overwork it if you're brushing- brush marks will show if you do. Just let it do its thing. Do a sample bit beforehand to get used to it if you've never worked with it before. Make sure to give it the dry time you need. Good luck!


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## Paint Chip (Dec 25, 2013)

DrakeB said:


> If you're going over the same color, it shouldn't necessarily require two coats. However, Advance tends to just get nicer and nicer as you do more coats. 2 slightly thinner coats can look better than 1 heavy due to the leveling. Some people do a very light sand in between coats as well. I've seen some people who spray do 1 coat primer, sand, 1 very light coat, then a final coat after the light one dries.
> 
> 
> 
> Make sure you don't overwork it if you're brushing- brush marks will show if you do. Just let it do its thing. Do a sample bit beforehand to get used to it if you've never worked with it before. Make sure to give it the dry time you need. Good luck!



And it tends to look a little funky while drying. Ignore that, dries beautifully. Awesome paint


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## beedoola (May 18, 2015)

DrakeB said:


> If you're going over the same color, it shouldn't necessarily require two coats. However, Advance tends to just get nicer and nicer as you do more coats. 2 slightly thinner coats can look better than 1 heavy due to the leveling. Some people do a very light sand in between coats as well. I've seen some people who spray do 1 coat primer, sand, 1 very light coat, then a final coat after the light one dries.
> 
> Make sure you don't overwork it if you're brushing- brush marks will show if you do. Just let it do its thing. Do a sample bit beforehand to get used to it if you've never worked with it before. Make sure to give it the dry time you need. Good luck!


Thanks. I may roll the doors with a microfiber mini roller, will the paint level and not have to be brushed out?

Also, most paints these days seem to be self-priming or having primer in it. Does the Advance have this?


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## Paint Chip (Dec 25, 2013)

beedoola said:


> Thanks. I may roll the doors with a microfiber mini roller, will the paint level and not have to be brushed out?
> 
> Also, most paints these days seem to be self-priming or having primer in it. Does the Advance have this?



I've used the whizz black foam roller with good not great results. Brushing for me anyway has nicer results. Put it on and leave it. No priming capabilities whatsoever. Just a touch of raw wood and it sucks it up big time. Even with a few coats.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

beedoola said:


> Thanks. I may roll the doors with a microfiber mini roller, will the paint level and not have to be brushed out?
> 
> Also, most paints these days seem to be self-priming or having primer in it. Does the Advance have this?


Much like all other paints these days, there's a limit to self-priming. Also, regardless of what marketing material says, there isn't any primer in _any_ paint, no matter who makes it.

Advance is touted for good leveling- I believe you should be okay to just roll it, but it depends on how good a finish you want for it (and how much detail there is).

If you're going over new woodwork or anything that's been stain/varnish/lacquer/shellac'd, I'd highly recommend a primer. At the end of the day, it should be a very minor setback. If you're worried about cost, cut to 1 coat primer and 1 coat paint. It will be a better finish than if you try to 2 coat no primer over most substrates. A coat of primer is cheaper and dries roughly 20 times faster than the paint, so it should be a drop in the bucket of total cost.


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## JonPaint (Sep 23, 2010)

I just did a couple of doors in Advance. Previously done in Impervo, same color.They came out really nice but the spot priming did flash. I'm sure a second coat would have taken care of that. Good enough for a rental. I might experiment with a spot finish over spot priming next time to save doing a full second coat.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

JonPaint said:


> I just did a couple of doors in Advance. Previously done in Impervo, same color.They came out really nice but the spot priming did flash. I'm sure a second coat would have taken care of that. Good enough for a rental. I might experiment with a spot finish over spot priming next time to save doing a full second coat.


Flashing can occasionally be an issue in circumstances like this; it depends heavily on your primer and the thickness at which you apply, as well. Swapping to a higher quality primer could help a bit and keep your labor time down. Alternatively, doing a full prime is also probably cheaper than spot priming and doing 2 coats. Just some thoughts, good luck!


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## beedoola (May 18, 2015)

DrakeB said:


> Much like all other paints these days, there's a limit to self-priming. Also, regardless of what marketing material says, there isn't any primer in _any_ paint, no matter who makes it.
> 
> Advance is touted for good leveling- I believe you should be okay to just roll it, but it depends on how good a finish you want for it (and how much detail there is).
> 
> If you're going over new woodwork or anything that's been stain/varnish/lacquer/shellac'd, I'd highly recommend a primer. At the end of the day, it should be a very minor setback. If you're worried about cost, cut to 1 coat primer and 1 coat paint. It will be a better finish than if you try to 2 coat no primer over most substrates. A coat of primer is cheaper and dries roughly 20 times faster than the paint, so it should be a drop in the bucket of total cost.


Ahh, thanks for clarifying that.

Not going over any new wood work, just cleaning and sanding/prepping the trim areas to allow for good adhesion. 

Even with a brush I tend to find there is the ability to see the strokes - if you're looking closely. Not super obvious but obvious to a painter. I'd like to get a nice near smooth result with the roller. It would also cut down on the work time, rolling the door versus rolling and then laying it off, to get a desirable finish. Though really the time it takes to lay off a door is that much..

The windows were done in flat latex - same as the walls. The base and doors/door trim was done in oil.

I know people say all kinds of things about not being able to paint latex over oil (though I've read that is the case for exterior) but I've done many jobs where the oil-based trim was cleaned thoroughly and sanded/deglossed and tacky clothed and got excellent results.


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## Gwarel (May 8, 2012)

In my little corner of the world I've come to the conclusion that a good paint store is just as valuable as good paint. Over the years I've gotten the best results of both from my local Glidden store. The personnel there has been consistent for a long time, which means the guys there know their products and how to help me get the job done. Their products have always been consistent and held up well on jobs I've done over the years. I will admit that SW cashmere has treated me well when I've used it, but if I have to walk in to SW and get a custom color matched, well, it's going to be a long day. BM products are great, but I don't have a store that I can easily access, and the pricing is usually double what I pay for Glidden. 350 Semi gloss is easy to work with, Ultra Hide 150 is great on ceilings, Gripper is a great universal primer, and 350 flat is a good wall paint. But that's just me........


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## beedoola (May 18, 2015)

Ceiling and walls at my upcoming project will be the same color, so I may do Regal for them both. Was leaning towards Advance but might shy away from what I've read about it sagging easily. May be more a user error issue but since I'll be working alone, I'd prefer not to have to keep watching behind me in case something starts to run.


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

DrakeB said:


> . 2 slightly thinner coats can look better than 1 heavy due to the leveling.
> 
> !




In reference to Advance, I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one point. Not to say that two coats doesn't always look better than one, but that there is any benefit in terms of leveling to applying a thinner coat than spec. 

Actually to me it seems to be quite the opposite. Like most any paint, Advance has the best chance of leveling out when it's applied as specified. I try for between 3 and 4 mil wet. Any thinner than that and it sets up to fast to be able to level out to its maximum potential. 

Or course with high leveling paints like Advance runs/sags are a concern, but that's more a function of coating evenness rather than overall thickness. 

When I first tried Advance years ago my BM guy said "you gotta put it on thin Josh or it'll run on you" . As much as I like and respect Moe's (BM guy) opinion/advice, that turned out to be terrible advice. While I have always gotten good results from this product, I didn't see the truly amazing leveling it's capable of until I started applying it range of the specced thickness (3.8). Lay it on heavy and evenly enough and it will flow out like a dream. Any less than that denies its full leveling ability to some extent. 

As far as rolling/laying off. I get the best results rolling with a microfiber and laying off with a soft brush. Get it just right and it can level near perfectly on smooth surfaces. 

I have experimented a little with just rolling it with the micros with pretty good results, but not great like when I lay it off. Could be I just haven't practiced rolling only enough to really get it down pat. 

The other thing about roll only is you will loose a little sheen. The stipple, however slight, will reduce the sheen of the dried film somewhat. It's especially noticeable with the Gloss Advance.


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## radio11 (Aug 14, 2015)

Using BM Advance almost exclusively for trim--there is a learning curve, but well worth it. 

The BM dealers in my area just don't give much of a price break. I'm sure the higher volume guys get some, but $32-$36 (plus tax) is a little steep for Ultra Spec eggshell. My SW rep just bumped my Cashmere price below $30 and IMO is a better product anyway. I'll be rolling a lot of Cashmere in the future--unless client specifies BM. I still pay $46 for Advance, but at least it goes a long way. 

For jobs that call for a "lesser" paint--we use a lot of Promar 200. Ultra Spec is not $12 better per gallon. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

beedoola said:


> Anyone try the KM Dura Poxy? And have any of you been using Matte vs. Flat for walls? Thoughts?


I've been using DP for some time now and really like it. It even sprays nicely out of my HVLP with minimal thinning. Out of the airless it is great. Dries nice and hard.


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

I pretty much use Miller for my work - all interior. Their products offer great value and their stores give great service. Wasn't a fan of their enamels until I tried KM Dura Poxi which they carry. Now I rarely visit my local SW though I still like and use their _Wall and Wood _primer.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

Jmayspaint said:


> In reference to Advance, I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one point. Not to say that two coats doesn't always look better than one, but that there is any benefit in terms of leveling to applying a thinner coat than spec.
> 
> Actually to me it seems to be quite the opposite. Like most any paint, Advance has the best chance of leveling out when it's applied as specified. I try for between 3 and 4 mil wet. Any thinner than that and it sets up to fast to be able to level out to its maximum potential.
> 
> ...


Advance definitely lays out better when it is applied a little thickerer. If you dry brush it just a little bit, it will leave brush marks. I think it is a little more difficult to hit that sweet spot when rolling it. Like most dual dispersion paints and even the urethane modified acrylics it has a smaller window between proper application thickness and running/sagging. Once you get the feel for it, it will give very good results.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

beedoola said:


> Ceiling and walls at my upcoming project will be the same color, so I may do Regal for them both. Was leaning towards Advance but might shy away from what I've read about it sagging easily. May be more a user error issue but since I'll be working alone, I'd prefer not to have to keep watching behind me in case something starts to run.


Advance is not really meant as a wall paint, and definitely not as a ceiling paint, so Regal would be a great choice there.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Jmayspaint said:


> In reference to Advance, I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one point. Not to say that two coats doesn't always look better than one, but that there is any benefit in terms of leveling to applying a thinner coat than spec.
> 
> Actually to me it seems to be quite the opposite. Like most any paint, Advance has the best chance of leveling out when it's applied as specified. I try for between 3 and 4 mil wet. Any thinner than that and it sets up to fast to be able to level out to its maximum potential.
> 
> Or course with high leveling paints like Advance runs/sags are a concern, but that's more a function of coating evenness rather than overall thickness.


Maybe I should have been more clear; I don't ever recommend applying paint at less than TDS film thickness as it will typically void any warranty and usually isn't a good idea anyways. What I mean is, some guys like to slop it on _really_ thick and that causes issues. Hit recommended mils, but don't go over.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

beedoola said:


> I know people say all kinds of things about not being able to paint latex over oil (though I've read that is the case for exterior) but I've done many jobs where the oil-based trim was cleaned thoroughly and sanded/deglossed and tacky clothed and got excellent results.


In theory latex over oil works alright. The biggest issue is gloss. I'm still of the personal opinion that you're better safe than sorry (I recommend a high bonding primer to my customers), but again- in theory, latex over oil isn't terrible when prepped correctly.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

DrakeB said:


> In theory latex over oil works alright. The biggest issue is gloss. I'm still of the personal opinion that you're better safe than sorry (I recommend a high bonding primer to my customers), but again- in theory, latex over oil isn't terrible when prepped correctly.


California Ultraplate has better adhesion over lightly sanded oil based then almost every primer on the market. In fact, the spec sheet actually says not to prime over alkyd gloss paints because most primers will fail to adhere any better the the ultraplate. That's why i love the stuff. And believe it or not, it lays out even better then Advance does. It's a shame more painters don't have access to it. Heck it's even mildew resistant and will easily cover black and bright colors in one proper coat.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

PACman said:


> California Ultraplate has better adhesion over lightly sanded oil based then almost every primer on the market. In fact, the spec sheet actually says not to prime over alkyd gloss paints because most primers will fail to adhere any better the the ultraplate. That's why i love the stuff. And believe it or not, it lays out even better then Advance does. It's a shame more painters don't have access to it. Heck it's even mildew resistant and will easily cover black and bright colors in one proper coat.


Sounds a lot like Rust Scat, from what I've heard of it. "Tenacious adhesion" my rep always says. Some day I'll give it a try.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

radio11 said:


> Using BM Advance almost exclusively for trim--there is a learning curve, but well worth it.
> 
> The BM dealers in my area just don't give much of a price break. I'm sure the higher volume guys get some, but $32-$36 (plus tax) is a little steep for Ultra Spec eggshell.
> For jobs that call for a "lesser" paint--we use a lot of Promar 200. Ultra Spec is not $12 better per gallon.
> ...


Ultra Spec for $32-36 is crazy. Here in New England it's $20-25. Regional prices, wow.


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## PRC (Aug 28, 2014)

DrakeB said:


> In theory latex over oil works alright. The biggest issue is gloss. I'm still of the personal opinion that you're better safe than sorry (I recommend a high bonding primer to my customers), but again- in theory, latex over oil isn't terrible when prepped correctly.


Primer is certainly preferred in my book, but I wanted to see how the advance would do on one small job. It was gloss oil getting gloss advance over it. We sanded every inch very well and it held to a scratch test the next day. That was 2 years ago


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

PRC said:


> Primer is certainly preferred in my book, but I wanted to see how the advance would do on one small job. It was gloss oil getting gloss advance over it. We sanded every inch very well and it held to a scratch test the next day. That was 2 years ago


To be fair, Advance is a hybrid product, so I would expect it to hold decently over oil anyways.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

kdpaint said:


> Ultra Spec for $32-36 is crazy. Here in New England it's $20-25. Regional prices, wow.


Depends on volume, too. If a small store in a small town sells US for $20/gallon, they're going to go out of business because it's just not feasible (we'd be making pennies, or losing money after tint costs sometimes). If I'm selling you 200 gallons, I can get a better price from BM for the job and maybe sell it for that. I have mine marked for way lower than I should for the volume I do. Around $ 30 is still a low margin, and about what I'd expect to see on the shelf at most places (given no contractor discount).


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

DrakeB said:


> Sounds a lot like Rust Scat, from what I've heard of it. "Tenacious adhesion" my rep always says. Some day I'll give it a try.


I'm still waiting on my BM rep to comp me some of that.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

DrakeB said:


> Depends on volume, too. If a small store in a small town sells US for $20/gallon, they're going to go out of business because it's just not feasible (we'd be making pennies, or losing money after tint costs sometimes). If I'm selling you 200 gallons, I can get a better price from BM for the job and maybe sell it for that. I have mine marked for way lower than I should for the volume I do. Around $ 30 is still a low margin, and about what I'd expect to see on the shelf at most places (given no contractor discount).


And most BM retailers don't want to sell under MAP anyway. They can't afford to give up the co-op.


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## beedoola (May 18, 2015)

beedoola said:


> Ceiling and walls at my upcoming project will be the same color, so I may do Regal for them both. Was leaning towards Advance but might shy away from what I've read about it sagging easily. May be more a user error issue but since I'll be working alone, I'd prefer not to have to keep watching behind me in case something starts to run.





DrakeB said:


> Advance is not really meant as a wall paint, and definitely not as a ceiling paint, so Regal would be a great choice there.




What I meant was that I'm fairly certain I'm using Regal for the ceiling and walls. I was considering Advance for the _trim_ but may choose something else.


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## kdpaint (Aug 14, 2010)

DrakeB said:


> Depends on volume, too. If a small store in a small town sells US for $20/gallon, they're going to go out of business because it's just not feasible (we'd be making pennies, or losing money after tint costs sometimes). If I'm selling you 200 gallons, I can get a better price from BM for the job and maybe sell it for that. I have mine marked for way lower than I should for the volume I do. Around $ 30 is still a low margin, and about what I'd expect to see on the shelf at most places (given no contractor discount).


Very interesting. I live in a town of about 60,000 surrounded by the boonies. There is SW, PPG, California, P&L. The BM store has 3 medium sized stores within 15 miles. Ultra Spec semi is $24.85. I don't qualify as a big purchaser by any means. I buy 10 gallons a week (various BM stuff, I'm mostly a California Paints guy) maybe. The price hasn't changed since BM rolled out Ultra Spec. The Local BM guys must have some juice with BM...


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

PACman said:


> And most BM retailers don't want to sell under MAP anyway. They can't afford to give up the co-op.


No MAP for Ultra Spec anyways. MAP is one of my least favorite things about BM, though. It's rough on some of their products, and they'll stop selling you Aura if you break the MSP iirc.



kdpaint said:


> Very interesting. I live in a town of about 60,000 surrounded by the boonies. There is SW, PPG, California, P&L. The BM store has 3 medium sized stores within 15 miles. Ultra Spec semi is $24.85. I don't qualify as a big purchaser by any means. I buy 10 gallons a week (various BM stuff, I'm mostly a California Paints guy) maybe. The price hasn't changed since BM rolled out Ultra Spec. The Local BM guys must have some juice with BM...


Having lots of competition is going to drive down price, too. Even if you're not making much, it's more than not selling anything if you're surrounded by other paint stores that you're not being competitive with. $25 isn't a bad price for either side imo, about what I'd expect for a normal contractor price. $20 is... without giving too much away, it's a really slim margin.


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## radio11 (Aug 14, 2015)

kdpaint said:


> Ultra Spec for $32-36 is crazy. Here in New England it's $20-25. Regional prices, wow.



One BM dealer a little further across town is also a carpet/flooring/decorating, etc. retailer. They cater to the interior decorators, but get a lot of business from upper-middle class housewives. They advertise "home of the $22 eggshell" on the radio. The retailers on here can correct me if my terms are wrong, but that is their "loss leader" to get them in the store. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I like KM 550 flat. But BM Regal is about as good if not better.


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## Paint medics (Aug 8, 2015)

SW my favorite ,
ICI second 
For me its the availability, service and accessability that matter also.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

radio11 said:


> One BM dealer a little further across town is also a carpet/flooring/decorating, etc. retailer. They cater to the interior decorators, but get a lot of business from upper-middle class housewives. They advertise "home of the $22 eggshell" on the radio. The retailers on here can correct me if my terms are wrong, but that is their "loss leader" to get them in the store.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


They might make a bit on some bases. Deep colors hurt bad, at all price levels, for us. Tint is  expensive.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

DrakeB said:


> They might make a bit on some bases. Deep colors hurt bad, at all price levels, for us. Tint is  expensive.


second that one!


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## The Cutting Edge (May 25, 2014)

DrakeB said:


> They might make a bit on some bases. Deep colors hurt bad, at all price levels, for us. Tint is  expensive.


My PPG store charges me different for every base color. I hate that. I don't charge anymore on my paint costs to the customer. They get it for my cost. I just usually charge for the highest base.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

The Cutting Edge said:


> My PPG store charges me different for every base color. I hate that. I don't charge anymore on my paint costs to the customer. They get it for my cost. I just usually charge for the highest base.


In reality, that's a better way (for us) to do it, but obviously customers don't like it and it increases complexity across the board. As much as I'd like to, I'd never do it that way.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

The Cutting Edge said:


> My PPG store charges me different for every base color. I hate that. I don't charge anymore on my paint costs to the customer. They get it for my cost. I just usually charge for the highest base.


That's because to get your business, the PPG store bet that you would use lighter colors most of the time and gave you as low as a price as they could without taking colorant expense into consideration. Then to cover their butts, they upcharge you when you need a darker color thinking you wouldn't mind because you get such a good price on the lighter colors. It's typical PPG bull5hit that i don't understand why people put up with. 

But to help you understand what they are doing, here is a sample of what it would take cost wise to use my most expensive colorant in the highest amount that can be added to a neutral base. Of course my costs are going to differ from theirs, but keep in mind they are company owned and their costs are going to significantly lower then mine.

If i had to tint a neutral base with the maximum amount(12oz.) of my most expensive colorant, it would add $24.23 to the cost of that gallon. My neutral base on my top contractor line is $2.50 a gallon less then a pastel base. So that means the colorant cost of that gallon is $21.73. That effectively raises the cost of that paint to more than double the regular retail price of the paint alone. 

What they are doing is giving you a price based on the pastel bases, and making the price as low as possible to get you to buy from them. Then, when you need a darker color, they have to somehow get profit on a gallon of paint that is significantly higher in cost. What they SHOULD be doing, is take into account the possibility of that and charging you 50 cents or so more per gallon on the 100's of gallons of pastel you are buying for every gallon of neutral base you are buying and just eating the expense of the added cost on those dark colors. But they prefer to inconvenience you by doing it the way they are so they can use price alone to get your business, instead of the old fashioned way of keeping your business buy providing fair pricing and superior service.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

DrakeB said:


> In reality, that's a better way (for us) to do it, but obviously customers don't like it and it increases complexity across the board. As much as I'd like to, I'd never do it that way.


Doesn't Ben Moore average out the cost of gennex anymore? That's what they did for us. That way every colorant costs the same and you are technically putting less expense into the deeper colors. Even using 12 ounces as opposed to 1 ounce it is better that way as opposed to what i have where some colorants are fairly cheap ($14 a quart) and some are $69 a quart. If i use 12 ounces of lamp black my cost is about $5.46 per gallon as opposed to bright red which would cost me $24.22 a gallon.

With the way BM had our costs, it would be the same for whatever colorant was used. 12 ounces of colorant would be the same for any color.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

PACman said:


> Doesn't Ben Moore average out the cost of gennex anymore? That's what they did for us. That way every colorant costs the same and you are technically putting less expense into the deeper colors. Even using 12 ounces as opposed to 1 ounce it is better that way as opposed to what i have where some colorants are fairly cheap ($14 a quart) and some are $69 a quart. If i use 12 ounces of lamp black my cost is about $5.46 per gallon as opposed to bright red which would cost me $24.22 a gallon.
> 
> With the way BM had our costs, it would be the same for whatever colorant was used. 12 ounces of colorant would be the same for any color.


Yah, my prices are the same regardless of colorant. Unfortunately BM also likes to fill cans all the way to the brim with white colorant.


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## radio11 (Aug 14, 2015)

Just looked at my last receipt for Ultra Spec. $31 for base 1 and $36 for base 2--both eggshell. The colors were side by side on the chart. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

radio11 said:


> Just looked at my last receipt for Ultra Spec. $31 for base 1 and $36 for base 2--both eggshell. The colors were side by side on the chart.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I bet you would pay ~$26 for flat white.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

I paint paint said:


> I bet you would pay ~$26 for flat white.


This is why I charge the same for all sheens and bases. Even though the cost is slightly different for me, I'd much rather be able to give painters a choice that doesn't come down to dollar value. They can offer a more flexible service at a consistent and reasonable price no matter which sheen they go for. Not sure why that's not industry standard. I guess because of all the idiots chasing the lowest possible priced gallon, but BM dealers really aren't going to win that fight anyways.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

DrakeB said:


> This is why I charge the same for all sheens and bases. Even though the cost is slightly different for me, I'd much rather be able to give painters a choice that doesn't come down to dollar value. They can offer a more flexible service at a consistent and reasonable price no matter which sheen they go for. Not sure why that's not industry standard. I guess because of all the idiots chasing the lowest possible priced gallon, but BM dealers really aren't going to win that fight anyways.


It's the only way a lot of paint retailers can get business. They have to quote their pastel/white prices as low as they can to get the customers. They can't rely on anything else to do it.

In sports it's called having "no game".


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

SW Eminence (ceilings), 200 egg or superpaint walls, Pro classic (latex or hybrid depends)
2 coats everything, every time.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

lilpaintchic said:


> SW Eminence (ceilings), 200 egg or superpaint walls, Pro classic (latex or hybrid depends)
> 2 coats everything, every time.


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## ReNt A PaInTeR (Dec 28, 2008)

chrisn said:


>


Seems like she uses better paint on the ceilings.


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## East Coast Coater (Sep 13, 2015)

If I could buy it all in one stop, I'd always go with Northumberland on ceilings, Sico Evolution (satin) for trim and BM Regal (eggshell) for walls. Methyl Hydrate on the floors.


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## GHP (Mar 22, 2015)

508 for the ceilings.
cashmere for walls, (I love the low luster sheen)
pro classic on the trim


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## GHP (Mar 22, 2015)

lilpaintchic said:


> SW Eminence (ceilings), 200 egg or superpaint walls, Pro classic (latex or hybrid depends)
> 2 coats everything, every time.



I used that Eminence once, I hated it...never used it again....I achieved better results with CHB than Eminence...but of course the best for me works BM's 508 ceiling paint.:thumbsup::thumbup::whistling2:


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

to be totally honest, I haven't been thrilled with eminence (in big areas) as of late...kinda looking for something different. DEAD FLAT and rollable.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Regal Select Flat (547) is 1-3.5 @ 85 degrees sheen. If you're not chasing the cheapest paint on the market, maybe give it a try? If you haven't used Benjamin Moore before your local BM store might give you a gallon for free to try out. It's a good product and holds up a little better than most flats do. 

Ultra Spec flat has only a little more sheen, but obviously won't hold up quite as well and isn't real appropriate for high end jobs.


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## woodworker38 (Sep 22, 2015)

Sherwin Williams promar 200, Scott's scrub master , Sherwin Williams eminence on ceilings already for now


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## beedoola (May 18, 2015)

DrakeB said:


> Regal Select Flat (547) is 1-3.5 @ 85 degrees sheen. If you're not chasing the cheapest paint on the market, maybe give it a try? If you haven't used Benjamin Moore before your local BM store might give you a gallon for free to try out. It's a good product and holds up a little better than most flats do.
> 
> Ultra Spec flat has only a little more sheen, but obviously won't hold up quite as well and isn't real appropriate for high end jobs.


I've worked jobs where the HO supplied the paint and used BM AURA Flat for the ceilings. Went on real nice and covered in one coat.

I just used KM Acry-Plex for the ceilings and walls in Flat - Swiss Coffee and it needed two coats, plus I primed everything.

Used KM Dura-Poxy Semi-Gloss for all the windows/doors/trim and that stuff worked pretty good. Hardens up and feels solid like oil-based paint.

I'll have to try the Dura-Poxy Matte for ceiling/walls next time. 

I have used the Acry-plex before (with good results) but this time I wasn't too satisfied with it.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

woodworker38 said:


> Sherwin Williams promar 200, Scott's scrub master , Sherwin Williams eminence on ceilings already for now


:blink::cursing::icon_cry::no::no:


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