# water damaged ventian plaster



## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

I've got a job that's fairly small repairing water damage (poor ac unit install) to a couple of walls.
One of which is in a stairwell that appears to be ventian plaster.
This not one of my acquired skills. any tips or advice?
Is there a way to repair the damage without having to do the entire wall? unlikely, so how do I replicate it? fauxlynn, i'm hoping this is right up your alley!
sorry the pics are sideways. there is a "natural break" at the corner on the other side of the window at the corner.


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

Owner wouldn't know what color of plaster was used?


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

Nope. She just knows she likes it...and that the ac company is paying for it.


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

Ugh, this is a pretty tough finish to touch up. Are you sure it's VP? Did you run your hand across it?,VP has a definite 'feel' about it.

The first thing I would do is ask the homeowner if there is any chance a touch up can was left behind. Maybe call the original finisher for info.

To repair: 
If there is wax on the wall, remove it with a rag and mineral spirits.

See if you can maybe sand it down to remove the stain.

IF the stain is gone, you can try burnishing with the edge of a trowel to return it to the original sheen.

I have a feeling that sanding probably won't be sufficient. In that case, you will need to apply some VP on top.

It's easy enough to apply something on top, but it is going to behave like flat paint sucking up a fresh coat. If the color is correct, one pass should do it.


The color is the most challenging part of this. You could mix it yourself, but it is a bitch to figure out the color. What is in the can looks SO different from how it dries. Also, it may look different after it is REALLY dry. What I have done in the past is match the wall up to a color in a deck and then mix,mix,mix until it comes out right. But like I said, what it looks like after 45 minutes can be different than after six hours.

You also could match up the color to a deck and call a VP supplier and have them mix it.

I recommend Atova only because I have worked with them for years, Im sure there are other suppliers that are just as good. I recently had them match a quart to a Ben Moore color. It was dead on and the cost was about 75 bucks.Their customer service cannot be beat.


www.paintandplasters.com 708-452-8331

Maybe Michael has some different ideas?


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

oops, forgot to say:

Even if you do find the original can, it most likely will not be a perfect match.

And.....I would tell the homeowner first off it is not going to be a 100% match.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

since the A/C company is paying for it, I would seriously try to convince everyone involved that the best course of action would be to do that whole wall at least. It would be a lot of work but I really think that would be the only way the home owner would be happy. I texted my ex. but either she still isn't talking to me or she is still in bed. She's been doing venetian like crazy the last couple of years.


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

Yes, I agree a case can be made to just re-do the whole wall. It could end up taking the same amount of time. The color match is less critical since the opposing walls will not be on the same plane to compare.


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## michael tust (Mar 6, 2009)

fauxlynn said:


> Ugh, this is a pretty tough finish to touch up. Are you sure it's VP? Did you run your hand across it?,VP has a definite 'feel' about it.
> 
> The first thing I would do is ask the homeowner if there is any chance a touch up can was left behind. Maybe call the original finisher for info.
> 
> ...




Ok I think I can add a few comments....
First of all this is answered very well by Lynn. 
When Venitian Plasters dry,they are lighter then when you first mix them... Most paints dry Darker. I could Eventually Match the Color Very Very Close. I probably could Match it Close enough then do the Ceiling Faster though. If you Try to touch this up, will the Eye Sore Grow? That would be Bad. If you Try To Duplicate this finish you Need to be sure of the Plaster Product as there are Many different Decorative Plasters on the Market. Is this Ceiling Easy to get to ? If Lynn or I Tried to touch this up , it Partially may depend on the Eye of the Homeowner... If We bettered it by 50% would that be good enough ? 75% ? Or is She Very Fussy ? A 100 % match is a lot to ask.... We M A Y be able to pull it off... maybe.... Since this is not one of your Acquired Skills it would be even more difficult . If you end up doing the whole ceiling ,can you match the Color / Pattern... And choose the Correct Product ? Decorative Plasters / Faux Finishes , are Not easy to Achieve ... But to Match an existing Artist / Finish is even Harder.
I say this not to be Negative .. But just to Prepare you for this Project ....


Michael Tust


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

Thank you all for your input. I always bid these kinds of thing "worst case scenario". Told them I would try to repair just the one wall, but as it is a specialty finish, repair is unlikely as opposed to re doing at a minimum the wall but likely the stairwell. Costs are covered. 
What I do know is that the finish is very smooth and not completely uniform... kind of a matte sheen but not put there by a roller or ??It is not a coating or glaze. The color is either like a milk paint type (there are obvious brush stroke at the cut in lines) or some other very thin,yet smooth finish. Again, it's not like a standard coating, it appears to be embedded. Is this vp?


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

My ex says that if they didn't want the whole room re-done she wouldn't touch it. But she's picky as hell. But she says that it is an "art" and no two artists are going to use the same technique and it is next to impossible to get acceptable results. She was almost insulted that I even asked her. And we are on very good terms so I don't think that had anything to do with it!


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

Okay, so back to the question,are you sure it is VP? Brush strokes at the ceiling line? Of what? Are they raised.like texture paint?

The finish is matte, which still could be VP, but the brush stroke remark is confusing me. VP is always troweld (?) on and smoothed out with that trowel.

If it were me,I would try to contact the original installer and see if they would give up any info.

Or,you could fly me out and I'll have it done lickety split. I can match anything. Anything.

I wish I had a better answer for you.


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

fauxlynn said:


> Okay, so back to the question,are you sure it is VP? Brush strokes at the ceiling line? Of what? Are they raised.like texture paint?
> 
> The finish is matte, which still could be VP, but the brush stroke remark is confusing me. VP is always troweld (?) on and smoothed out with that trowel.
> 
> ...


Vp is usually almost like a marble smoothness. I wonder if someone is "selling" bogus vp work and calling it vp. Just rolling it on the wall is not the complete process.

fauxlynn-I think I might have found our answer;
http://www.behr.com/consumer/how-to/interior/how-to-create-a-venetian-plaster-finish

They are telling people that venetian plaster is just a troweled on texture, with no polishing or burnishing! WTH?


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

PACman said:


> Vp is usually almost like a marble smoothness. I wonder if someone is "selling" bogus vp work and calling it vp. Just rolling it on the wall is not the complete process.
> 
> fauxlynn-I think I might have found our answer;
> http://www.behr.com/consumer/how-to/interior/how-to-create-a-venetian-plaster-finish
> ...


I didn't look at the link,haha.......I think people put many different Italian plasters under the VP label. There are 'VP' fiinshes that are skip troweled, pitted like travertine,unhoned,etc....but they still have that unmistakable feel of stone.

There are so many synthetic Italian plasters on the market that are complete garbage; packaged and sold correctly, they pass to the uninformed homeowner. I don't necessarily mean that in a bad way. True VP out here is somewhere around $15/sq.ft. Homeowners need a less exspensive alternative, but I also think they should know they may not be getting the real thing.

Back to the OP, the wall just looks smooth to me. Surprised it had brush marks.

To add- many of the synthetic VP's don't require burnishing; they require the purchase of a top coat to make it shiny,lol.


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

The brush strokes were not raised. It is as if the wall had been finished (with a colorant added???maybe?) And then stained with a very thin product. There are no raised grooves anywhere from brush strokes or otherwise...boy, Lynn I sure would l9ve to fly ya out for this! And coffee and trading info and ideas and then boot shopping!!  not this time, but perhaps we'll revisit this idea at a later date...hmmmm...

And pac..I'm planning on doing the whole stairwell if I have to. And I'll likely have to...that's just the nature of faux. The original artist would probably have a tough time matching their own stuff!! Lol


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

By the way...I am wondering whether or not this is vp. Can't say I've ever run into it before so I'm not confident about what I'm looking at. I know that it is very smooth, my guess would be plaster as I know it's not drywall. What else could it be?


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

I am wondering if it could be straight up a glaze finish over really smooth walls. 

I doubt it is texture paint, because that would be almost impossible to do with no application marks.

Try removing some switchplates and maybe that could reveal some other clues, hopefully they didn't cover up that entire area behind the plate. Also, look up close to where the wall meets trim, see if you see any build up of a glaze in places like that. I doubt anyone would glaze a VP, it would suck it up like flat paint.

Also, if you put your hand on the wall, it should feel cool,like stone. I don't know how else to describe it. If you feel any roughness, say like 220 grit sandpaper, then I would say it is not VP. Maybe someone told the homeowner that it was.


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## woodcoyote (Dec 30, 2012)

I agree. Sounds like the consensus is the same, rather than patch, redo. You'll probably end up making more money, spending a little more time yes (but that's why you charge more), and you'll be sure there isn't a problem. 

If it was me. I'd redo the whole thing. remove the stain, spot prime so any stains won't come through. Paint it. And get some "VP" from lowes or sherwin. 

If you need to match it, try sherwin or dun's, whatever you have there. They can match it as closely as possible (like a paint match). And see what happens from there. That would be your easier solution to a patch. 

Good luck and let us know the outcome!


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## lilpaintchic (Jul 9, 2014)

It is cold to the touch and smooth as a baby's a55. I'm 98% sure it's plaster. I guess I just don't know the difference between a v plaster and some other type of plaster finish. There definitely is not a paint or normal finish product on these walls. It could be a very watered down stain I suppose..I thought it was completely embedded until I saw the brush strokes...I dunno, it's very translucent . 
It's scheduled for the week of the 16th sometime (can't remember which day that week) There's more repairs than just that though..I'll try to get a better pic and pick your brains again then.haha... 
And ty wood. I'll chat up my sw rep and pick their brains about a product. I'm thinking I can fix it, faux it and throw a clear matte glaze up and be fine... if I gotta do the whole thing, I'm goin with the easier, softer way. HO likes the look. It was there before they bought it. I can duplicate the look all day long...just don't have the plaster experience.YET! this kinda stuff sure is inspiring these days though..and
$15/ft?!?! I'm in the wrong effing trade....lol


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## PACman (Oct 24, 2014)

fauxlynn said:


> I am wondering if it could be straight up a glaze finish over really smooth walls.
> 
> I doubt it is texture paint, because that would be almost impossible to do with no application marks.
> 
> ...


Maybe the Home depot clerk that's selling the Behr "venetian plaster"?


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

PACman said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> Maybe the Home depot clerk that's selling the Behr "venetian plaster"?


Okay, I get it, you hate Behr! 
Let me tell you a little story. My former employer, one of the largest and most exspensive specialty painting firms on the east coast, used to use Behr 'Venetian Plaster' and charged the same as if we were using Spatula Stuhhi, which at the time was about $350 for a two gallon bucket. No comparison, but the homeowners couldn't tell any different.

That stuff stunk like plastic or glue and was not so great to work with. It got gummy if you overworked it.I was taught with Spatula Stuhhi, stuff was like butter.

Yeah, fifteen a square sounds great, but the real stuff is exspensive and labor intensive if done properly.


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