# BEHR Naked...



## propaint (Oct 2, 2011)

I would like to get an honest discussion going about BERH paint without holding anything back.

*First let me be honest about a few things:*
1. I am a professional painter with over 20 years experience in the Atlanta area.
2. I have mainly used Benjamin Moore's "top of the line" products throughout those years and have sworn by their performance. Built a reputation in high-end service (both residential and commercial).
3. I am a part time associate at The Home Depot in the paint department going on my 6th year.
4. Am also serving as an "paint expert" at the corporate offices here in Atlanta. 

*the most important thing* I am perplexed at the amount of animosity towards BERH and would sincerely like feedback. This is not intended as a promotional piece or a vehicle to push the product - you have my word.

Thank you for any imput.


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## Rcon (Nov 19, 2009)

Honestly, there are so many threads here about that paint that you could just read a few and find all the answers you're looking for.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

I was going to say exactly what Alec said except I was going to wade through and link a couple but then I have to skim over them and don't feel like it. 

Do a search for Behr, then buy some and use them on the next job then alternate back and forth between other products and form your own opinions We are a suspicious bunch anytime I see a noob start a Behr thread wanting to know why we do not all love the stuff I feel suspect that it is coming from the Behr peeps. 

I have used the stuff before, on both interior and exterior. It is not what I spec but I occasionally encounter a customer that 100% believes in the product from their own past experience, I will then decide if I want the job enough to compromise on my normal materials. For interior it is not much of a big deal I am sure most pros can produce a satisfying product with lesser materials. Exterior is a bit different you have to figure the spread and hide will be lacking.
I also think that if it was sold out of a true paint store it would not be so disliked

Either way I posted in the thread and am sure it will be 5 pages shortly and no doubt will read like every other Behr thread. So I guess I am saying do the search because you will not likely get any fresh opinions unless for some reason it is a new member speaking up for the first time and decided for some reason to make this their breakthrough moment.


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Fixed it


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## Paradigmzz (May 5, 2010)

Sent that from my phone, dunno how to rotate it on there...


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Paradigmzz said:


> Sent that from my phone, dunno how to rotate it on there...


looks fine to me. :whistling2:


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## robladd (Nov 22, 2010)

I'm not a Behr hater. Many here on the forum are. If you were to have a secret vote I don't think it would be a 100% accurate, due to the fact not all painters want other painters to know they are using Behr.

Don't know what it is it's just HOW it is.

The big thing is Home Depot. Not everyone is thrilled with buying experience.

When I go I purchase GLIDDEN 75% of the time because I know there products.

I cannot tell you the countless Gov. jobs I have been on that Spec Glidden.

I don't not have a problem with Behr or the Home Depot.

I think the big thing is open a Behr store and see how many people would PAY for it.


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## y.painting (Jul 19, 2009)

Most serious speced jobs will never call for Behr so it's not used there.
A lot of people don't like the idea of buying from big box stores and not being serviced by knowledgeable sales reps on a consistent basis.
Many argue that the performance is worse.

A big thing besides the above is the way Behr positions their brand and the distribution model they're stuck with. They target HOs (as is S/W increasingly doing). They target the DIYs and they "make the project easy" with their products. They push their product in a place where many hard-core pros don't set foot in on a consistent basis. It might be an unconscious thing, but pros don't want to be associated with such products. They want the "real" stuff. 

An avid biker would never purchase an "amateur" bike from Walmart (even though it would suffice for most of their needs). Instead, they prefer go to a pro-bike shop and pay 3 times more for their Trek. Are they justified in doing so? Is a lot of it in their head? I don't know...interesting to think about.


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## robladd (Nov 22, 2010)

After reviewing my post I should use spell check more.

The last 3 homes I have lived in these are the paints I used.

1. Ext. Valspar Int. Glidden 
2. Ext. Olympic Int. Glidden 

The home I live in now I painted the Ext. with BEHR and the Int. with Glidden 

I sprayed it using my Graco G-40 with a 515. 

AAA does a wonderful job and it can make 
any finish material look it's very best.


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## ProPaintcrew (Apr 25, 2011)

The reasons i avoid behr:
-it takes 3x - 20x longer to get it mixed (time is money)
-if i need another gallon to finish, it wont match 
-i cant call my order ahead, and there will be 3 HOs in front of me
-the 'expert' mixing the paint has never painted anything, ever... but hes knows it all
-i cant charge it to my account, and there will only be 1 cashier open with a long line
-one color with be thick as elmers, the other with be very runny 
-I get no discount, and can get better products for less at my paint store
-Half of my Home depot visits, i leave swearing i wont return because of the lack of service, knowledge, and urgency
-my wife works at lowes


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## Holly (Jun 14, 2011)

I admit to snobbery about Behr, but also, one of two times I used it, the pigment actually bled, it was weird. Blue streaks developed somewhat uniformly around the top of the room--it was a light color in a bathroom and I was doing it for a friend for free with paint she already had. It was dry when she showered the next day, but apparently not cured long enough? I wouldn't have thought it would have that kind of effect, though. I saw the same effect this past spring in a bathroom I repainted; the customer said it had been painted with Behr paint previously; darker green streaking on light green paint. 

It was also a bit time consuming to roll it out both times I used it--takes a bit of attention to try to get a smooth finish with it, or at least the colors I used did. This was 7 and then 3 years ago, I think, so maybe you have a new formula?


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## Paint and Hammer (Feb 26, 2008)

Behr is the Kardashians of the paint world.....great publicist.


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

propaint said:


> 3. I am a part time associate at The Home Depot in the paint department going on my 6th year.


They give part-time associates their own email addy? I'm impressed...


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Paint and Hammer said:


> Behr is the Kardashians of the paint world.....great publicist.


Now there is a GREAT quote:thumbsup::notworthy::notworthy:


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Workaholic said:


> I was going to say exactly what Alec said except I was going to wade through and link a couple but then I have to skim over them and don't feel like it.
> 
> Do a search for Behr, then buy some and use them on the next job then alternate back and forth between other products and form your own opinions We are a suspicious bunch anytime I see a noob start a Behr thread wanting to know why we do not all love the stuff I feel suspect that it is coming from the Behr peeps.
> 
> ...


 
I PROMISE not to add more to it, 

except what I just did.


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## propaint (Oct 2, 2011)

I am impressed with the level of honesty you all are putting into this thread.

What I am getting here is that some (not most) have had bad experiences with either HD or Behr in the past and...once bitten twice shy - right?

I have used BM and swore by it and yet worked at Home Depot and actively sold both Glidden and Behr to customers. I too had several of those same experiences you all described and was not open to even considering using the products in my professional Painting mode.

I am still using a great deal of BM but have also Incorporated the Behr Ultra line as well and have had to rearrange my logic because of it. I guess its like teaching an old dog new tricks - it can be done.

I just challenge you to try the Ultra and see if you come up with the same conclusion. If you stop and think about it, there might be something to it - because everyone now is coming out with their own version. i.e. SW - Superpaint, BM-Ben, Glidden-Duo, Valspar, etc...


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## DB_1 (Oct 10, 2011)

propaint said:


> I just challenge you to try the Ultra and see if you come up with the same conclusion.


I have used Behr Ultra interior flat and eggshell. The flat seemed ok but the eggshell I was using was in a bright white and was still transparent after 2 coats. Ended up having to do a coat in flat of the same color before I did 2 more coats of eggshell to get it to cover.

I even tried Behr Ultra Plus and it didn't cover any better than the standard Ultra product. I'm sure the Ultra Plus product is geared towards the naive HO who thinks they will save time by not having to prime first.


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## Scannell Painting (Sep 25, 2010)

ProPaintcrew said:


> The reasons i avoid behr:
> -it takes 3x - 20x longer to get it mixed (time is money)
> -if i need another gallon to finish, it wont match
> -i cant call my order ahead, and there will be 3 HOs in front of me
> ...


 
That about says it all, I might add, coverage is poor.


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## propaint (Oct 2, 2011)

sorry...I can't resist responding to this one:

Originally Posted by ProPaintcrew 
The reasons i avoid behr: 
-it takes 3x - 20x longer to get it mixed (time is money) we fast track contractors now.
-if i need another gallon to finish, it wont match. computer formula is so accurate that it is impossible to not match (formula-on-formula).
-i cant call my order ahead, and there will be 3 HOs in front of me. Now you can call or place the order online, pay and it will be ready at the Pro desk in an hour.
-the 'expert' mixing the paint has never painted anything, ever... but hes knows it all. give you that.
-i cant charge it to my account, and there will only be 1 cashier open with a long line.Dedicated Pro desk that gets you through quick.
-one color with be thick as elmers, the other with be very runny. bad experience.
-I get no discount, and can get better products for less at my paint store. Big tier discounts for Pros. And onsite delivery.
-Half of my Home depot visits, i leave swearing i wont return because of the lack of service, knowledge, and urgency. Things have changed - maybe now its your turn.
-my wife works at lowes. 
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...m_sp=Pro_Home-_-promo-_-pro_desk-_-learn_more


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

Feel free to reply to this one:



ProWallGuy said:


> They give part-time associates their own email addy? I'm impressed...


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## IHATE_HOMEDEPOT (May 27, 2008)

I just wish there was only one company and one color to choose and in one sheen. Grey- satin int./ext..


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## Lee Decorating Corp. (Oct 6, 2011)

ProPaintcrew said:


> The reasons i avoid behr:
> -it takes 3x - 20x longer to get it mixed (time is money)
> -if i need another gallon to finish, it wont match
> -i cant call my order ahead, and there will be 3 HOs in front of me
> ...


If you do not mind, I would like to use your post in a future blog. Perfect.


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## propaint (Oct 2, 2011)

****


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## CajunDavid (Jul 20, 2011)

I like and sometimes use BEHR. The service I get from Home Depot has been much better than from Sherwin Williams. I can't even get SW to color match for me. I'm not sure why some are so dead set against Behr.


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## madochio (Oct 26, 2011)

ok in almost 20 years on the other side (sales) you would not image the feedback i get about behr. most of it is user error. i have used behr a few times and over all i thought it was okay ( poor hide) the biggest issue is that the staff at the HD could careless if it works ( not all staff) in the past i have called HD for some cust and got the run a around. Personally if HD took the time to train the staff on the paint and how to use it as well as color help. most of the issues for a homeowner would go away. Yes it is the the people that work there not the product. if you do not have people that "care" no matter the training it is the products fault. Again i am not saying that all staff is this way but one bad experince it all it takes.
as for con't most of my painters do not want to wait or deal with a match there. again nothing to do with the product. If HD get this together they will "beat the Sh!t" out of everyone. apples to apples Behr is a good priced paint and preforms well in most DIYers homes. Most con't will not touch it because there is little to no suport.
well i will get off my soap box now


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## DB_1 (Oct 10, 2011)

madochio said:


> Personally if HD took the time to train the staff on the paint and how to use it as well as color help. most of the issues for a homeowner would go away.


The problem is if for whatever reason the regular paint dept. person isn't there, they have someone from another dept. filling in. I may be wrong here but they are probably only trained to operate the computer/tint machine and mixer.

Somehow Behr got a reputation of being a top of the line paint with HO/DIY'ers. They have probably shopped around the paint stores where they won't get as good of a deal so $20.00 a gallon sounds pretty good to them.


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## madochio (Oct 26, 2011)

DB_1 said:


> The problem is if for whatever reason the regular paint dept. person isn't there, they have someone from another dept. filling in. I may be wrong here but they are probably only trained to operate the computer/tint machine and mixer.
> 
> Somehow Behr got a reputation of being a top of the line paint with HO/DIY'ers. They have probably shopped around the paint stores where they won't get as good of a deal so $20.00 a gallon sounds pretty good to them.


i had a great "paint guy" working for me a number of years back who had to move out of the market. He took a job at HD and after 15 years as a paint guy he was put in the power tools area not having a clue on how to sell them. make sense to me :blink:


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

ProWallGuy said:


> Feel free to reply to this one:


I looked him up and according to his High School yearbook update he lists himself as a part time sales associate.


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## y.painting (Jul 19, 2009)

Workaholic said:


> I looked him up and according to his High School yearbook update he lists himself as a part time sales associate.


creeper :thumbup:


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## robladd (Nov 22, 2010)

Workaholic said:


> I looked him up and according to his High School yearbook update he lists himself as a part time sales associate.


So what your saying is if I moonlight at home depot besides being a PC now I am Associate :blink


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

robladd said:


> So what your saying is if I moonlight at home depot besides being a PC now I am Associate :blink


I am assuming that everyone who works on the floor is an associate.


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## Capt-sheetrock (Feb 10, 2008)

ProPaintcrew said:


> The reasons i avoid behr:
> -I get no discount, and can get better products for less at my paint store


 Ya know that part is a lie!!!!!


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

Well....being a "pro painter program" member I have to take this to task. My responses to yours in red.



propaint said:


> sorry...I can't resist responding to this one:
> 
> Originally Posted by ProPaintcrew
> The reasons i avoid behr:
> ...


*Easy for you to sit there and claim "We can, and now do". Am sure that maybe your store does some of these things. At the end of the day the execution at my store (the one that matters to me) is what colors my opinions. *

*Home Depot is geared more to the pro remodel/carpenter type. You serve them well. They can place a paint order and it is taken care of while they pull the lumber, drywall and nails they need for the job. The paint is an easy choice because ther are already there. *

*They don't have a discerning opinion or experience on what works, what to buy or what they need. So the guy at the paint desk seems like a brain surgeon to them.*

*To get Pro Painters into the door you need to meet or exceed the experience they receive at a "paint store". Knowledgable staff, real pricing programs, advance ordering that works, maybe even sell sheets and fan decks. Until you can do these things consistantly well, you are just a store that sells paint.*

*I like some of Berh's products, but the buying experience is less than what I receive from my local paint store. What hold Berh back from being used by "Pros" is Home Depot. (imho)*

*I blogged about this months ago: *

http://annapolispainter.blogspot.com/2011_06_01_archive.html


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## bikerboy (Sep 16, 2007)

There is one reason you should not use Berh, specially if you do new construction. Masco Contractor Services.

Yes, they are your competitor. They want you to spend money on their products (Berh paint) while they compete with you for the work.

Read the list of services from their site.

http://www.mascocs.com/services/other-homeowner-installation-services/#/products

Masco owns Berh Process Corporation.


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## Tnmayala (Nov 15, 2011)

*The Behr Response*

I'll keep it short. Price doesn't tell what you got only what you paid for the product. Having said that I like the Behr Premium Plus Ultra starting at $30.95 at The Home Depot is a paint a primer all in one. It also covers in the fewer coats ( depending on the skill of the painter ) and is also available at a contractor rate of up to 20% off at the register. Did you know that? Pro Rewards works like a discount card in the store. Simply said, the Behr lines are the Ipod not the Walkman of paint. Hope this helps out.


propaint said:


> I would like to get an honest discussion going about BERH paint without holding anything back.
> 
> *First let me be honest about a few things:*
> 1. I am a professional painter with over 20 years experience in the Atlanta area.
> ...


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

ProWallGuy said:


> They give part-time associates their own email addy? I'm impressed...





Workaholic said:


> I looked him up and according to his High School yearbook update he lists himself as a part time sales associate.





robladd said:


> So what your saying is if I moonlight at home depot besides being a PC now I am Associate :blink





Workaholic said:


> I am assuming that everyone who works on the floor is an associate.


My only point is, I don't think your average sales associate who works in the paint dep't at home depot gets an email addrees like yadayada @ homedepot .com. I think this guy is a little bit more than just a sales associate, and if so, he needs to buy an ad here if he wants to promote his product of choice. Just sayin.... Honesty is a virtue.


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

ProWallGuy said:


> My only point is, I don't think your average sales associate who works in the paint dep't at home depot gets an email addrees like yadayada @ homedepot .com. I think this guy is a little bit more than just a sales associate, and if so, he needs to buy an ad here if he wants to promote his product of choice. Just sayin.... Honesty is a virtue.


I understood that and that is why I looked a little further into it. 

I also touched on that in my first post in the thread, I am always skeptical of a noob starting a Behr thread, wanting to get answers on what is wrong with the product. It seems they can be rather deceptive while trying to promote their brand. 

It is possible that if he worked at the pro department they may have given him an email. Hard to say. He seemed to ignore the question though. 



This post sums it up for me 


> Originally Posted by *Paint and Hammer*
> _Behr is the Kardashians of the paint world.....great publicist._


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

Tnmayala said:


> Simply said, the Behr lines are the Ipod not the Walkman of paint.


Freakin' brilliant. I've just found my new signature line. :yes:


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

Tnmayala said:


> the Behr lines are the Ipod not the Walkman of paint.


I thought Behr was the Prius.


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## ProWallGuy (Apr 7, 2007)

Workaholic said:


> I thought Behr was the Prius.


Close....


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## Workaholic (Apr 17, 2007)

:laughing:
I stand corrected I wish I would of put a little bit more thought into it and come up with that. :notworthy:


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

ProWallGuy said:


> Freakin' brilliant. I've just found my new signature line. :yes:


Already done


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## DB_1 (Oct 10, 2011)

Tnmayala said:


> I'll keep it short. Price doesn't tell what you got only what you paid for the product. Having said that I like the Behr Premium Plus Ultra starting at $30.95 at The Home Depot is a paint a primer all in one. It also covers in the fewer coats ( depending on the skill of the painter ) and is also available at a contractor rate of up to 20% off at the register. Did you know that? Pro Rewards works like a discount card in the store. Simply said, the Behr lines are the Ipod not the Walkman of paint. Hope this helps out.


Thanks for the advertisement...you realize this is a forum for paint professionals right? You are not pulling anything over on us and not telling us anything we already know.

Covers in fewer coats huh? I am not gods gift to painting but I know a thing or two about applying paint. If it isn't solid after 2 coats something is wrong there.

Yes we get it, you have a Pro Paint program for us pro's now start catering to us like pro's and you might have something.

Finally, Behr paints are not the Ipod, but the Zune of paints.

Have a nice day.


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## MDServices (Oct 29, 2011)

Wow another behr tread. Who cares we are professionals and use what we individually like on a job to job basis. I use sw and bm. Depends on Customer request, job, pricing etc. stop pumping the behr hype to us. 

Paint and primer has been out for years it's just been called self priming


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## BrushJockey (Mar 15, 2009)

Walkman has a new MP3 player out that is fantastic and about a third the price of an Ipod. I'm using it right now!!

:thumbup:


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## jenni (Aug 4, 2011)

everyone here has used behr before. no one's gonna change their mind on using it or not, regardless of what HD or behr does...


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## In Demand (Mar 24, 2008)

I just used Behr yesterday on some trim in a rental ..... It is straight garbage.
I dont care what Consumer Reports or anyone else says, it is junk.
Other companies followed suit with the primer and paint in one crap, but on a typical repaint I aint priming nothing. 
If I have a warranty issue with my paint from a real paint store you can bet your a55 my sales rep for that brand will be out there right away, how long would it take to get my Behr rep out there ? Are there Behr reps ?
Home Depot also has disclaimers hanging up in their paint department here saying that they do not back Behr's one coat coverage claim ....... but I thought this paint was the greatest .........
I got stuck using Behr because the guy I am subbing for supplied it trying to knock my price down. If he tries the Behr again my price goes way up past any price I would quote using quality paint.
Wasnt there a class action lawsuit against Behr's awesome deck stain a few years back ? Yeah I dont put trash in my customers home, I am there to increase the value and beauty of the place, not to vandalize it.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

another convert:thumbsup:


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## plainpainter (Nov 6, 2007)

Paints change so much - if I didn't like behr in '04 does it still apply today? I used their ceiling paint - it's wicked bright white, but goes on like a satin paint and didn't have a great spread rate. Their semigloss white - didn't like the way it brushed. I used a china white eggshell - not my cup of tea on how it rolled and how it looked - but with one coat of primer and one coat of the behr, it didn turn old wood wallboard into a totally covered surface. So something I would entertain using on apartment style repaint jobs. But honestly haven't used it enough to form an opinion. I can list a bunch of paints I don't like in benjamin moore - I hated their wateborne satin impervo in '04 - does it still suck now? Who knows but I am not going to experiment anytime soon. Their muresco ceiling paint always rocked - and their wallpaints especially Regal/Regal Matte have been wicked impressive.


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## In Demand (Mar 24, 2008)

Behr is for painters who messed up their line of credit at SW


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## Builtmany (Dec 5, 2009)

In Demand said:


> Behr is for painters who messed up their line of credit at SW


LOL and every other paint store within 25 miles


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## NCPaint1 (Aug 6, 2009)

Builtmany said:


> LOL and every other paint store within 25 miles


:no: I have ones that will try though :yes: They want credit, then tell me how everything is cheaper everywhere else....ok so go there....oh wait....you cant :jester:


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

What's this "Behr" stuff that has all of the Pros throwing rotten fruit?

guess i'd better not try it...


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## WisePainter (Dec 27, 2008)

In Demand said:


> Behr is for painters who messed up their line of credit at SW



+1

that lol'd me.


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## prototype66 (Mar 13, 2008)

plainpainter said:


> Paints change so much - if I didn't like Behr in '04 does it still apply today? I used their ceiling paint - it's wicked bright white, but goes on like a satin paint and didn't have a great spread rate..


I just used that Behr White ceiling paint that comes in the 2 gallon bucket and I have to disagree with you here. The stuff doesn't cover well at all and it was like dragging glue across the ceiling. The ceilings were previously painted smooth finish plaster. Thank goodness it wasn't my choice....just what the home owner bought! I'll never use the stuff on one of my jobs.


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