# Women painters



## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

First let me say my lead painter is a women, not only has she worked for me for 9+ years she is the reason Repaint Florida has grown, been successful and has built my company into a company know for quality service :thumbsup:

so do you hire women? plus & minus on hiring ? 

my crews average 70% women & 30% men

just to let you know we're a full service painting company, interior / exterior 
both residential & commercial 

the girls hang off 12 stories swing stage, spray, roll, brush & at the same time keep a professional image 

so do you hire women?


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## Stretch67 (Oct 7, 2013)

Have 1 currently. She works just fine. Generally, not many applying for our type of painting that's for sure. Need to be able to lift 85 lbs minimum all day long all day strong.

RPF, the main thing I wonder about is the heavy lifting... can all of your employees carry a 5er in each hand, for 100 yards without stopping? Not saying that its a requirement (that's what heavy equipment is for), but I have found that even for the guys who cannot do it, it ends up causing some delays/pita. Over the years, we have had to stock entire hotels by hand, carrying em up the stairs 5 gallons in each hand whether its 5 stories or 20 stories. Not fun.


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

bryceraisanen said:


> Have 1 currently. She works just fine. Generally, not many applying for our type of painting that's for sure. Need to be able to lift 85 lbs minimum all day long all day strong.
> 
> RPF, the main thing I wonder about is the heavy lifting... can all of your employees carry a 5er in each hand, for 100 yards without stopping? Not saying that its a requirement (that's what heavy equipment is for), but I have found that even for the guys who cannot do it, it ends up causing some delays/pita. Over the years, we have had to stock entire hotels by hand, carrying em up the stairs 5 gallons in each hand whether its 5 stories or 20 stories. Not fun.


Delegating is the key, i have a yard guy to set painters up on bigger jobs

he comes in a hour earlier, set up sprayer, drops paint, leaver ladders and make sure the painter can do their job 

90% of our work is residential repaints so everything is cool, but i can say this when you have women painters homeowners love them :thumbsup:


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## soperfect paint (Aug 25, 2015)

if the work is done in a professional way and with full cooperation then no matter that will be done by man or woman.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

I did have a couple of young ladies on my crew in the 80's. No issue with their abilities or performance when compared to anyone else.

And I have hired many of the lady hangers in the Boston Chapter when I've needed a hand on larger jobs - again no difference with performance or abilities when compared to the guys.

One difference is the perception of men and women held by the HO . *IN GENERAL*, HO's relate to women differently than to men, and usually better. It's as if they think the woman will be more finicky, more careful, cleaner, better mannered, etc.They feel more comfortable with a woman on the job in those aspects. I notice a sense of ease when they talk to a female crew member. 

The flip side is that there is a perception that perhaps women can't deal with the ladders and brute force some aspects of the work entails.

But whether it's a man or a woman, each individual has strengths and weaknesses, the role of a owner is to put his/her employees in the right position to maximize the talents.


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

We do. The majority of our painters are women now, including 3 job managers (crew leaders).
I don't see any limitations, they do the difficult jobs too, the lifts, the heights.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I say if a women can become an Army Ranger, they can certainly handle painting. And frankly, I'd find it pretty darn difficult to tote two fives of paint 100 yards without stopping. Especially if they were inorganic zinc! I'm sure I would make it, but at my age, the last thing I want to do is work for a company that requires that.


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## Roamer (Jul 5, 2010)

We've only had two women work for us in the past 28 years. Maybe it is a geographical thing but there aren't that many female painters in our area.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Roamer said:


> We've only had two women work for us in the past 28 years. Maybe it is a geographical thing but there aren't that many female painters in our area.


Same here. Seems most of the faux painters are female around here, but for straight painters it's a male dominant work force.


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## Epoxy Pro (Oct 7, 2012)

As most of you know my business partner is female. I agree most HOS feel more comfortable with a female on the crew. I know of 3 other ladies that paint, I have said to Carly we should hire 1 or 2 women.

This year we shifted to mainly interior (not by choice, bad winter snow), next year I'm hoping for just interior painting. If that's what we end up doing I will again try to talk Carly into hiring a couple.

I do know a female painting company owner, her and her 2 female crew throw the 40 around just like us guys do. These ladies take on some big projects and seem to do just fine.

Last summer a crew of 4 females would wear their bikinis while up in a lift or on a ladder. Yes I did help put a stop to that job. Lead paint full removal in a freaking bikini.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

I think there are several female painters around this area. I've yet to hear of any of them doing exterior stuff though.

One thing I've experienced when working on a larger project is that the other workers tend to take things a bit more seriously when a female worker from any trade is on site. Less horseplay, stupid jokes/comments, attitude.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Wildbill7145 said:


> I think there are several female painters around this area. I've yet to hear of any of them doing exterior stuff though.
> 
> One thing I've experienced when working on a larger project is that the other workers tend to take things a bit more seriously when a female worker from any trade is on site. Less horseplay, stupid jokes/comments, attitude.


and when they get home to the wife and kiddies, that start acting like their normal selves - like a high school sophomore


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

My sister in law is a plumbing inspector. She's always said it's a royal pain getting respect from trades, etc. Plumbers will treat her like she's an idiot or just 'the little lady who's come to look at their work'. Homeowners, business owners getting work done do the same thing.

Until they push her too far and she goes into micro nitpicky mode and refuses to sign off on their permit.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I wish there were more women painters. It doesn't take much more than a light touch on the joy stick to handle a man lift.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Is that Bill Gates! What's this world coming too?! First the Wheaties guy, now this. This brings a whole new meaning to microsoft.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

speaking of high school sophomores, why did I know this thread would soon turn childish and totally inappropriate?

IBTL


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## johnnyb (Jul 16, 2015)

Aside from what's all mentioned above, another bonus to hiring women: 

When a new guy keeps screwing something up, just tell him let me get Jenifer over here to show you how it's done. He'll remember for damn sure, as long as his male ego is functioning.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

C'mon Bill, treating women in the trades like fragile little creatures that can't handle the juvenile behavior of men in the work force, doesn't do them any justice. Women are smarter then that. And taking on the roll of knight in shining armor, slaying the male chauvanist pig, is best left for the old romance novels collecting dust in the basement. I mean, women are freakin combat pilots for crying out loud! I'm sure they survived a lot more challenges than some lame posts from painters.


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## 2peterhunter (Dec 8, 2014)

I have only women. They do a tremendous job and can do everything I can plus are faster cutting interior.


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## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

I personally could care less if you are male or female. My only concern is your ability to do the job that you are assigned. Having worked with many females in my years in the fire service I found that they were as capable as any of male firefighters. I found that most females had to in fact work harder to "prove" themselves. I had a lot of respect for the ones that worked hard.


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## Oden (Feb 8, 2012)

There are aspects of the trade a woman just isn't gonna be physically suited to keep up
The same reason there aren't any women in the NFL

There I said it. Out loud, deal with it.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Oden said:


> There are aspects of the trade a woman just isn't gonna be physically suited to keep up
> The same reason there aren't any women in the NFL
> 
> There I said it. Out loud, deal with it.


As of today, I would probably gauge my physical strength and ability to that of a high school women's junior varsity water polo student. But I'm still managing to do my job. 

Oh yea, women can paint as well as men. No doubt.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

Oden said:


> There are aspects of the trade a woman just isn't gonna be physically suited to keep up The same reason there aren't any women in the NFL There I said it. Out loud, deal with it.


I think you may correct here, Oden.

Not politically correct mind you, but correct in real world terms. 

There, I backed you up, the lines are drawn; let us begin.


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## epretot (Dec 17, 2011)

I wonder what this thread is really about. It certainly is about hiring women. Op asks for pros and cons. Whether you do or don't. What comes next are a bunch of guys talking about how they can't tell men and women apart. Bill gave the only genuine answer. 

After all, men and women are exactly the same. They look the same, have all the same skills, and are equal in strength.

They even have the same body parts.

Geesh!


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

CApainter said:


> C'mon Bill, treating women in the trades like fragile little creatures that can't handle the juvenile behavior of men in the work force, doesn't do them any justice. Women are smarter then that. And taking on the roll of knight in shining armor, slaying the male chauvanist pig, is best left for the old romance novels collecting dust in the basement. I mean, women are freakin combat pilots for crying out loud! I'm sure they survived a lot more challenges than some lame posts from painters.


"fragile little creatures" WOW. John, I think I've mentioned before about how you twist what I say.

It don't matter what gender, race, religion, nationality, color, age, or any other package in which a human resides, I will always promote
R-E-S-P-E-C-T

Otis was God, let's take his words to heart, and since this is a thread about women:


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

epretot said:


> I wonder what this thread is really about. It certainly is about hiring women. Op asks for pros and cons. Whether you do or don't. What comes next are a bunch of guys talking about how they can't tell men and women apart. Bill gave the only genuine answer.
> 
> After all, men and women are exactly the same. They look the same, have all the same skills, and are equal in strength.
> 
> ...


 This thread's going downhill fast. :yes:


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

I gotta brag on my sis a little bit. She's really coming into her own this year, the fifth year of apprenticeship. She already skunks most guys I've ever worked with, ladder work included. 

The past couple weeks she's been practicing a lot with brush extensions. Here's a couple pics from our last two jobs. One is a church sanctuary where the pews interfered with ladder sets, the other a big exterior. Being able to use an extension, and being able to cut in with one, is a valuable skill IMO.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

See, women can be just as nuts as men :thumbsup:


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

daArch said:


> See, women can be just as nuts as men :thumbsup:


My point exactly!


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I would like a 100% women to chime in on this issue, and also challenge Oden to an arm wrestling match.


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

CApainter said:


> I would like a 100% women to chime in on this issue, and also challenge Oden to an arm wrestling match.


And I hope her name is Bertha.


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## jw129943 (Apr 3, 2014)

I'm a woman, and run my own small business, specializing in cabinet painting (along with some furniture painting). I have found that in this specific niche, I work almost exclusively with the "woman of the house", and I find that many of them prefer to hire a woman to do the work. I think they see me as very detailed and meticulous, and I understand their needs and concerns going into the project (especially since I've painted my own cabinets).


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

jw129943 said:


> I'm a woman, and run my own small business, specializing in cabinet painting (along with some furniture painting). I have found that in this specific niche, I work almost exclusively with the "woman of the house", and I find that many of them prefer to hire a woman to do the work. I think they see me as very detailed and meticulous, and I understand their needs and concerns going into the project (especially since I've painted my own cabinets).


If this site is representative of most male painters, I don't blame them.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

slinger58 said:


> And I hope her name is Bertha.


Or even Aretha. Did you see those guns on her?:blink:


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

CApainter said:


> Or even Aretha. Did you see those guns on her?:blink:


Yeah but Bertha goes so well with "big". And when you a get woman who's acquired the nickname of "Big Bertha" and her last name happens to be Butz, why you've got a moniker that intimidates half the male population of the U.S.

Especially old "over the hill" painters like you and me.:whistling2:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

slinger58 said:


> And I hope her name is Bertha.


I wish you guys would stop referencing favorite tunes. I'm spending all night listening to youtube :thumbsup:


one of my favorite versions


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## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

Having taught ladder safety in the fire service for multiple years I can say that almost anyone who is taught proper body mechanics when lifting and moving a ladder can do so. Fire service ladders are substantially heavier and more cumbersome than your typical ladder from the big box stores. I have taught women as light as 110 pounds how to lift, move, and set 24-32 foot fire service ladders by themselves. Yes at first they looked like a monkey with a football but after just a few hours they were able to do so. Moving ladders is all about proper body mechanics and very little to do with how strong the individual is.


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

daArch said:


> I wish you guys would stop referencing favorite tunes. I'm spending all night listening to youtube :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> one of my favorite versions
> ...



I was doing the same thing. However, when I see Bertha Butt, I think of this one:


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

daArch said:


> I wish you guys would stop referencing favorite tunes. I'm spending all night listening to youtube :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> one of my favorite versions
> ...





SemiproJohn said:


> I was doing the same thing. However, when I see Bertha Butt, I think of this one:The Jimmy Castor Bunch "Troglodyte (Cave Man)" 1972, Atlantic Records - YouTube


Nothing like a walk down memory lane, huh guys? :thumbup:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Lambrecht said:


> Having taught ladder safety in the fire service for multiple years I can say that almost anyone who is taught proper body mechanics when lifting and moving a ladder can do so. Fire service ladders are substantially heavier and more cumbersome than your typical ladder from the big box stores. I have taught women as light as 110 pounds how to lift, move, and set 24-32 foot fire service ladders by themselves. Yes at first they looked like a monkey with a football but after just a few hours they were able to do so. Moving ladders is all about proper body mechanics and very little to do with how strong the individual is.


So much has to do with balance. Even those of us who ain't huge athletes can maneuver ladders and planks with the right balance.

If any of have been forced (by kids, spouse, whatever) to watch that America Got Talent thing, you may have seen a guy who REALY has the balance thing down with a freestanding ladder. The other night he climbed a 20 footer - remember, FREESTANDING ladder.

This is a preliminary round (not the 20 footer) and takes a bit of time to get to the actual ladder act.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

slinger58 said:


> This thread's going downhill fast. :yes:


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

Lambrecht said:


> Having taught ladder safety in the fire service for multiple years I can say that almost anyone who is taught proper body mechanics when lifting and moving a ladder can do so. Fire service ladders are substantially heavier and more cumbersome than your typical ladder from the big box stores. I have taught women as light as 110 pounds how to lift, move, and set 24-32 foot fire service ladders by themselves. Yes at first they looked like a monkey with a football but after just a few hours they were able to do so. Moving ladders is all about proper body mechanics and very little to do with how strong the individual is.


What are some options non-fire fighters have to learn these ladder safety techniques?

Anyone got a favorite source for instruction manuals, books, online tutorials, etc?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I paint paint said:


> What are some options non-fire fighters have to learn these ladder safety techniques?
> 
> Anyone got a favorite source for instruction manuals, books, online tutorials, etc?



OSHA provides all the information you need. And as far as ladder safety, the four main things to remember IMO are:

1. Four to one ratio

2. Three feet of extension when climbing to a roof top

3. Tie down ladders

4. Ladders have limits and other options should be considered before exceeding those limits.


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## I paint paint (May 4, 2014)

Thanks CA. I'm interested in getting a lesson on:

*I can say that almost anyone who is taught proper body mechanics when lifting and moving a ladder can do so.*

I'll brush up on OSHA's guidelines.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I paint paint said:


> Thanks CA. I'm interested in getting a lesson on:
> 
> *I can say that almost anyone who is taught proper body mechanics when lifting and moving a ladder can do so.*
> 
> I'll brush up on OSHA's guidelines.


I don't even think OSHA would approve of how many people lift, carry, and walk with an extension ladder. Even those who are very proficient at it. I'm almost certain OSHA would recommend, or even require, that two people should manage an extension ladder. 

Proper lifting and carrying are probably under another OSHA section. I would say if you've been maneuvering ladders this long without any current disasters, that you should probably carry on with your method.


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## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

The absolutely most important thing to remember before raising a ladder is to 

ALWAYS CHECK FOR OVERHEAD POWER LINES!!!!!!

Get in the habit of checking before even touching the ladder, again before setting the ladder, and constantly looking when on the ladder.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

SemiproJohn said:


> I was doing the same thing. However, when I see Bertha Butt, I think of this one:The Jimmy Castor Bunch "Troglodyte (Cave Man)" 1972, Atlantic Records - YouTube


Same one I thought about, interestingly enough. How old am I?


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## SemiproJohn (Jul 29, 2013)

You aren't old, just musically educated. :thumbsup:


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

Lambrecht said:


> The absolutely most important thing to remember before raising a ladder is to
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Very good advice. I've always been hyper vigilant about power lines. Anyone else remember Louie the Lighting Bug? That song about power line safety he sang still gets stuck in my head sometimes. 

A lot of the neighborhoods I work in these days have underground lines. I still find myself looking for them every time I raise a ladder.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

CApainter said:


> *Is that Bill Gates!* What's this world coming too?! First the Wheaties guy, now this. This brings a whole new meaning to microsoft.


CA, women love a man with a sense of humor! :jester:


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

PaintersUnite said:


> CA, women love a man with a sense of humor! :jester:


I don't know about that. I think I hit a nerve with all these internet geeks who probably see Gates as some kind of God. Not one thanks on my post. And every time I go check to see if there's even one little courtesy Thanks, nothing. But I still crack myself up. I swear I don't need any entertainment with all the stuff rolling around in my head.

BTW, nice job on the photo edit!


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

CApainter said:


> one little courtesy Thanks,
> ...!




Courtesy thanks lol. Good one.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

CApainter said:


> I don't know about that. I think I hit a nerve with all these internet geeks who probably see Gates as some kind of God. Not one thanks on my post. And every time I go check to see if there's even one little courtesy Thanks, nothing. But I still crack myself up. I swear I don't need any entertainment with all the stuff rolling around in my head.
> 
> BTW, nice job on the photo edit!


I'm a geek.

I thought it was a compliment to Gates.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Back to the serious subject about women. My mom happened to be one, so there's really not much I can say other than, "Welcome aboard!"


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

As with anything else, as long as a person can perform the job requirements I really don't care who or what they are. I honestly just can't be arsed to spend time worrying about that kind of thing- too many other, legitimate things to worry about in life.


Interestingly enough, I have seen a bit of the reverse- many women seem very shy about talking to a fairly grizzly looking young man about which shade of pink is better. I'm not sure why. As I mentioned in another thread, I've found myself enjoying helping people with colors and designs more and more the more I do it. After they spend a few minutes talking to me, most people realize that I actually know what I'm talking about- but there's always a hesitation when I ask how I can help them or what they're looking for, and sometimes I can see they're about to ask and then they just don't and say they're just looking.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

BM paint shop I use staffed completely by women. Always has been.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

*Just an FYI:* The U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) is responsible for enforcing federal laws that make it illegal to discriminate against a job applicant or an employee because of the person's race, color, religion, sex (including pregnancy), national origin, age (40 or older), disability or genetic information.

And in some peoples eyes, a thread titled: *"Women Painters"* could be as inappropriate and offensive as a thread titled; *"African American Painters"* (and discussion that follows). 

Just some food for thought!


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## slinger58 (Feb 11, 2013)

No worries. We have a in house lawyer.


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## Jazz_Painter (Feb 22, 2015)

I just hired a girl for the first time this week. First reason is, I don't hire often, and second being that I don't know many girls in the trade. We met at a paint company's BBQ and we had fun hanging, so we kept talking then it led to working togheter. She works well, backed me up like a any good worker who's got your back (I do that all the time as well, even as the "boss"), and she was fun to be around. I'm looking foward to working with her again, I find that having a girl around is a very positive thing.


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

PaintersUnite said:


> *Just an FYI:* The U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) is responsible for enforcing federal laws that make it illegal to discriminate against a job applicant or an employee because of the person's race, color, religion, sex (including pregnancy), national origin, age (40 or older), disability or genetic information.
> 
> And in some peoples eyes, a thread titled: *"Women Painters"* could be as inappropriate and offensive as a thread titled; *"African American Painters"* (and discussion that follows).
> 
> Just some food for thought!


 here we go .... politically correct bullsh

the thread was about giving credit to women painters

PaintersUnite i enjoy your post but this post was not started " as inappropriate and offensive " and i know you not slamming me but just pointing out the way we've become being PC

now where everyone takes it is on them  

i am still back to my original post that woman make good painters and have had a major part in my company :thumbsup:

hell at this point dealing with hiring a good painter i would hire a monkey if they could paint, show up on time & pass a background check :blink: 

so i think i am cool with The U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission

after 37 years in this trade i've seen the good - the bad - the ugly but still proud to be a painter :thumbup:
.


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## Lambrecht (Feb 8, 2010)

i would hire a monkey 


Finally!!!!! A place where all of us Paint Talk members can get a job. :thumbup:


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## Repaint Florida (May 31, 2012)

Jmayspaint said:


> I gotta brag on my sis a little bit. She's really coming into her own this year, the fifth year of apprenticeship. She already skunks most guys I've ever worked with, ladder work included.
> 
> The past couple weeks she's been practicing a lot with brush extensions. Here's a couple pics from our last two jobs. One is a church sanctuary where the pews interfered with ladder sets, the other a big exterior. Being able to use an extension, and being able to cut in with one, is a valuable skill IMO.


so cool you get to work with your sister & she pulls her weight :thumbsup:

make sure you teach her the business end too so one day she can get out of the bucket but in the mean time cut her no slack and let her learn the hard way ... she's off to a good start with ladder work, brush extension, having to work around everything and earning her pay 


.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

One of my best painting friends has had his youngest daughter working with him and says it been a most wonderful experience all summer. 

I guess when you work 7 days a week to put one girl through Harvard and the other through U Va, working with one is a good way to keep the family ties.


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## Paint medics (Aug 8, 2015)

That is awesome.I will hire anybody thats capable of doing quality work. I have hired many ladies in the past . Unfortunately do to the nature of my work. 90% residential repaints during exterior season. The whole being able to carry your own ladders, tarps ect. ,it was very difficult . I heard the "dont you know im a girl" excuse . Even union work didnt have any women on the workforce because of the workload and employee competition . I had and would still hire women. For some reason I dont get to many applying not too many guys do out here.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Paint medics said:


> That is awesome.I will hire anybody thats capable of doing quality work. I have hired many ladies in the past . Unfortunately do to the nature of my work. 90% residential repaints during exterior season. The whole being able to carry your own ladders, tarps ect. ,it was very difficult . I heard the "dont you know im a girl" excuse . Even union work didnt have any women on the workforce because of the workload and employee competition . I had and would still hire women. For some reason I dont get to many applying not too many guys do out here.


Yah, no matter who you hire, men, boys, women, girls, they can't be weak and uncoordinated. And yes, by nature, women are generally smaller stature than men. But that said, there are plenty of women of all sizes who can carry the load, and plenty of men who can't. Any hiree needs to be able to stand up to the workload. This ain't office work. 

And this "don't you know I'm a girl" comment is BS. I am sure if you condescended to someone like that BECAUSE she was a "girl", you'd be charged with sexual discrimination or even harassment.


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

Repaint Florida said:


> so i think i am cool with The U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission


Luckily there's a constitutional right to free speech that means people can say whatever they want about hiring men and women without recourse anyways. As long as there's no evidence of them acting on their opinions, they're more than free to share them here, so there's no need to worry about anyone throwing the book at anyone. It doesn't make people's opinions any more or less valid, but it does mean the EEOC is a fairly pointless discussion in this thread :thumbsup:

Thanks for thread RPF, I'm enjoying it so far for the most part.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

I agree Drake. Being liable for discrimination should only apply when one's actions are preventing another, with the same and equal opportunity, from obtaining a position that can benefit them. It's the same with racism. One may look like an ass for opining their support of bigotry, but in a public setting supported by the second amendment, it doesn't justify liability.

Now granted, this is a Canadian site. But they like Americans, and are unlikely to squash opinions


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

CApainter said:


> I agree Drake. Being liable for discrimination should only apply when one's actions are preventing another, with the same and equal opportunity, from obtaining a position that can benefit them. It's the same with racism. One may look like an ass for opining their support of bigotry, but in a public setting supported by the second amendment, it doesn't justify liability.
> 
> Now granted, this is a Canadian site. But they like Americans, and are unlikely to squash opinions


Canada is in America, as is Mexico, Brazil, Cuba, Peru, etc :whistling2: 

Canadians are as much Americans as Brits are Europeans

I sometimes wonder what if the CSA had successfully seceded from the USA what each country would be commonly called?


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

The internet is mostly anarchy anyways; or, perhaps better described as a "city-state" type setup, which each website being a little island largely under its own control and making its own rules. Though that gets less and less true with each day.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

CApainter said:


> Now granted, this is a Canadian site.


Really?

Edit: "PAINTTALK.COM is owned and operated by VerticalScope Inc. of Toronto, Ontario."

I had no idea.

"Unless otherwise specified, the materials contained on the Web Site are presented solely for the purpose of providing information to persons primarily located in Ontario, Canada. This site is controlled and operated by VerticalScope Inc. from its offices in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. PAINTTALK.COM makes no representation that any of the materials contained in the Web Site are appropriate or available for use in other locations or jurisdictions. Those who choose to access this site from other locations do so on their own initiative and are responsible for compliance with local laws, if and to the extent local laws are applicable."

I knew this place had kind of a 'homey' feel to it when I joined.


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## George Z (Apr 15, 2007)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Really?
> 
> Edit: "PAINTTALK.COM is owned and operated by VerticalScope Inc. of Toronto, Ontario."
> 
> ...


Yes!!!
It was only a matter of time.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

beer, back bacon, hockey, and toques for all , eh


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## Jmayspaint (Mar 26, 2013)

daArch said:


> beer, back bacon, hockey, and toques for all , eh



But no sausage gravy apparently.


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## Wildbill7145 (Apr 30, 2014)

Jmayspaint said:


> But no sausage gravy apparently.


Oh, that's gonna be a changin' today.

Given this new found revelation, I have to wonder if we need some Canadian representation in the Mod squad?


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

Repaint Florida said:


> here we go .... politically correct bullsh
> 
> the thread was about giving credit to women painters
> 
> ...


Jeff, na, not meant to be politically correct at all. I was just adding some butter to the topic. I know you're a good guy! 

Years ago, I worked in the food industry, with "15 women" as well as men, from the ages of 18 to 60+. I had 3 of those women fired for being bad apples. Whether it be 'men' or 'women' employees, there are good and bad in all shapes, sizes, colors and creeds.

Not every women is going to make a good employee, let alone a good painter. As the saying goes, it's hard to find good help. But yes, if you find a good female painter, who wants to work, whose head is on strait, she will be an asset to any business, of any industry. 

BTW - your web site looks great! :thumbup:


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Oh, that's gonna be a changin' today.
> 
> Given this new found revelation, I have to wonder if we need some Canadian representation in the Mod squad?


Absolutely! And I'll be the first to nominate you Will.


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## PaintersUnite (May 11, 2014)

DrakeB said:


> Luckily there's a constitutional right to free speech that means people can say whatever they want about hiring men and women without recourse anyways. As long as there's no evidence of them acting on their opinions, they're more than free to share them here, so there's no need to worry about anyone throwing the book at anyone. It doesn't make people's opinions any more or less valid, but it does mean the EEOC is a fairly pointless discussion in this thread :thumbsup:
> 
> Thanks for thread RPF, I'm enjoying it so far for the most part.


"Equal opportunity employment" is very valid in this topic, IMO.
PT is a site that serves as education to many contractors. If a painter is thinking of starting his own company, "Equal opportunity employment" is important to understand, if a person intends to hire employees. 

Regarding the first amendment - I believe most people are well aware of their right to free speech. My point was - ones right to free speech, may offend other people or be inappropriate is some situations. :blink:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Wildbill7145 said:


> Oh, that's gonna be a changin' today.
> 
> Given this new found revelation, I have to wonder if we need some Canadian representation in the Mod squad?



Might as well. A Canadian is just as adept at doin nothin as any of us southerners :whistling2:


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## DrakeB (Jun 6, 2011)

daArch said:


> Might as well. A Canadian is just as adept at doin nothin as any of us southerners :whistling2:


"Southerners"


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## Lady Painters at Work (Jul 8, 2021)

Repaint Florida said:


> First let me say my lead painter is a women, not only has she worked for me for 9+ years she is the reason Repaint Florida has grown, been successful and has built my company into a company know for quality service 👍
> 
> so do you hire women? plus & minus on hiring ?
> 
> ...


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## Lady Painters at Work (Jul 8, 2021)

Yes you do hire woman. Why not. I have a all woman and operated painting business. Something I can say is that we need more woman to apply.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Lady Painters at Work said:


> View attachment 112349
> 
> Yes you do hire woman. Why not. I have a all woman and operated painting business. Something I can say is that we need more woman to apply.


So, judging by your company name, I'm guessing you are apposed to hiring men? All the same, I'm glad you re-hashed this subject. Both of my painters at the moment are female and my clients love them.


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## Lady Painters at Work (Jul 8, 2021)

finishesbykevyn said:


> So, judging by your company name, I'm guessing you are apposed to hiring men? All the same, I'm glad you re-hashed this subject. Both of my painters at the moment are female and my clients love them.


I'm new here just getting the hang of using this site. Nice. I have a problem finding woman to work. I wish I can find at least 2 soon.
Thanks for the response to my post.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

Lady Painters at Work said:


> I'm new here just getting the hang of using this site. Nice. I have a problem finding woman to work. I wish I can find at least 2 soon.
> Thanks for the response to my post.


 Where abouts are you located?


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## Lady Painters at Work (Jul 8, 2021)

finishesbykevyn said:


> Where abouts are you located?


Miami Florida


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Lady Painters at Work said:


> I'm new here just getting the hang of using this site. Nice. I have a problem finding woman to work. I wish I can find at least 2 soon.
> Thanks for the response to my post.


Welcome to the group!
Please consider submitting a brief introdiction to yourself in the Intro section. 
Dan


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## Lady Painters at Work (Jul 8, 2021)

RH said:


> Welcome to the group!
> Please consider submitting a brief introdiction to yourself in the Intro section.
> Dan


Where do I find that section?


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## RH (Sep 7, 2010)

Lady Painters at Work said:


> Where do I find that section?











New Member Introductions


Introduce yourself to the community here!




www.painttalk.com


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Call it the effectiveness of diversity training, but I'm not clear if using the term "Lady" is appropriate any longer. In my training, we were taught to not emphasize gender.

Is this a problem you are experiencing?


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## Lady Painters at Work (Jul 8, 2021)

CApainter said:


> Call it the effectiveness of diversity training, but I'm not clear if using the term "Lady" is appropriate any longer. In my training, we were taught to not emphasize gender.
> 
> Is this a problem you are experiencing?


No. I have not had a problem. Hope not to encounter such a situation.


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## Lady Painters at Work (Jul 8, 2021)

Lady Painters at Work said:


> Where do I find that section?


Thank you.


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## Lady Painters at Work (Jul 8, 2021)

RH said:


> Welcome to the group!
> Please consider submitting a brief introdiction to yourself in the Intro section.
> Dan


I did.

Thank you.


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## Lady Painters at Work (Jul 8, 2021)

RH said:


> New Member Introductions
> 
> 
> Introduce yourself to the community here!
> ...


Thank you.


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## finishesbykevyn (Apr 14, 2010)

CApainter said:


> Call it the effectiveness of diversity training, but I'm not clear if using the term "Lady" is appropriate any longer. In my training, we were taught to not emphasize gender.
> 
> Is this a problem you are experiencing?


How about Men?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Lady Painters at Work said:


> I'm new here just getting the hang of using this site. Nice. I have a problem finding woman to work. I wish I can find at least 2 soon.
> Thanks for the response to my post.


It's like trying to find find Zebras to be Pack Mules. This is the problem with specific identity driven pursuits.

I personally believe painting can provide opportunities for women just as much as it has for men. 

Question: Is the idea of an all women business driven by the sense that they would get along better than a mixed gender staff?


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

We handle primarily exterior work in the summer, and many times the homeowner isn't there at the time (vacation homes/rentals/cabins/condos, etc...). Often the setting is wooded, and frequently far from town, so using a nearby tree to relieve oneself is fairly commonplace on one or two day jobs.

We currently have an all-man crew, so this is not a problem most days. I'm certainly not averse to hiring women for the job, but this is a practical issue that would need to be addressed, especially with a mixed crew.

Renting a porta-loo and moving it from site to site for short-term jobs would not only be expensive (yes, can be passed onto customer), but would also add a logistical consideration on a regular basis, that is not always realistic (as we routinely jump from job-to-job-to-job in the summer, and is sometimes dictated by weather and other circumstances).

Curious if you would be able to speak to this issue.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

Good question Holland. I'm also interested in the reply.

It's hard for me _not _to view the identity specific business and employment model as anything more than the exploitation of the empowerment movement sweeping the social landscape. For example, is there a particular value that I'm supposed to recognize in a women owned and employed service? Or, am I merely demonstrating solidarity to the plight of women in the trades if I hire their service? And what is that plight?


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## jennifertemple (Oct 30, 2011)

CApainter said:


> Call it the effectiveness of diversity training, but I'm not clear if using the term "Lady" is appropriate any longer. In my training, we were taught to not emphasize gender.
> 
> Is this a problem you are experiencing?


Ladies that paint for a living are the least likely to be into the PC Gender issue. We just want to get on with the work. I think I'd hate being a paint "person". You can refer to me in any polite manner you care to, gal, women, lady, girl. Just don't get in the way.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

jennifertemple said:


> Ladies that paint for a living are the least likely to be into the PC Gender issue. We just want to get on with the work. I think I'd hate being a paint "person". You can refer to me in any polite manner you care to, gal, women, lady, girl. Just don't get in the way.


In a reasonable society, I suspect that would be the norm. But in a Woketopia, there can be dire consequences for not abiding by the wishes of the few.


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## celicaxx (May 29, 2015)

CApainter said:


> Good question Holland. I'm also interested in the reply.
> 
> It's hard for me _not _to view the identity specific business and employment model as anything more than the exploitation of the empowerment movement sweeping the social landscape. For example, is there a particular value that I'm supposed to recognize in a women owned and employed service? Or, am I merely demonstrating solidarity to the plight of women in the trades if I hire their service? And what is that plight?


I've heard for a lot of women only businesses in all construction, that a big issue for customers is if they are single women in the house all day, they're more comfortable and safe feeling with another woman in the house vs a man due to issues of violence. Even going further as a male, you might get one customer that feels super safe and awesome around you, and another that hates you right away because you remind them of their ex-husband or something stupid like that. As a woman, you avoid some of those issues. 

I would say too in the trades, though this could be banned to say on PT, but I figure it's worth pointing out an elephant in a room, a lot of people want familiarity in their houses, or someone that literally or figuratively speaks their languages. For example, there's many Asian-American contractors or mechanics that basically specifically market to other Asians, Russians/Eastern Europeans to their countrymen, Indians/Pakistanis to their countrymen, and sort of mini-cooperative services cater to each ethnic group, usually at lower labor rates than a mainstream business with it all being cash. I think plenty of businesses _implicitly_ market along ethnic lines, though with say, Asians, you can go to an Asian market and look on a bulletin board and find "*_* Hardwood Flooring" or whatever in Chinese, Vietnamese, etc.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

celicaxx said:


> I've heard for a lot of women only businesses in all construction, that a big issue for customers is if they are single women in the house all day, they're more comfortable and safe feeling with another woman in the house vs a man due to issues of violence. Even going further as a male, you might get one customer that feels super safe and awesome around you, and another that hates you right away because you remind them of their ex-husband or something stupid like that. As a woman, you avoid some of those issues.
> 
> I would say too in the trades, though this could be banned to say on PT, but I figure it's worth pointing out an elephant in a room, a lot of people want familiarity in their houses, or someone that literally or figuratively speaks their languages. For example, there's many Asian-American contractors or mechanics that basically specifically market to other Asians, Russians/Eastern Europeans to their countrymen, Indians/Pakistanis to their countrymen, and sort of mini-cooperative services cater to each ethnic group, usually at lower labor rates than a mainstream business with it all being cash. I think plenty of businesses _implicitly_ market along ethnic lines, though with say, Asians, you can go to an Asian market and look on a bulletin board and find "*_* Hardwood Flooring" or whatever in Chinese, Vietnamese, etc.


I suspected there was something wrong, but I'm not supposed to notice otherwise.


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

Hmm, some quick thoughts that may or may not be fully thought out:

All female crews support the stereotype that all/most?? women are more accurate, detail oriented and can choose great colors.

The few times I was stabbed in the back on a job site, it was a fellow woman that stabbed me. Women are vicious.

I’ve used many disgusting job site bathroom facilities,men’s, women’s and mixed. I’ve also been on job sites where the women had their own dedicated loo. Most women I worked with held it in until we got to a fast food place on the way back to the shop.

I’ve had clients assume I was the helper on a job instead of the boss. I’ve also had countless people ask me what my ‘real job’ is. You know, when I’m not painting your house.

Anyway, I’ve considered trying to gather an all female crew of tradespeople to start a ‘woman only’ business. I think it has an appeal to a certain segment of the population.

Edit to add: I put together many a hand picked crew over the years for larger jobs. I always chose based on skill and non bs factor.


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## celicaxx (May 29, 2015)

fauxlynn said:


> Hmm, some quick thoughts that may or may not be fully thought out:
> 
> All female crews support the stereotype that all/most?? women are more accurate, detail oriented and can choose great colors.
> 
> ...


One thing I find kinda weird is how little women are in the trades in USA. In Asia I actually saw a lot more women in the trades, even doing fairly heavy duty stuff like cement rendering and tiling. They weren't sort of stereotypically masculine women either. 










Couple videos from Taiwan.


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

Yeah, I’m no history expert but, maybe in the US it’s taking longer to get women equally represented in the trades? Maybe RH can school us about women in traditionally masculine jobs during ‘the war’ and then poppin out babies once our military came home. Big lag time between that and women coming back into the workforce. Idk


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

So, I'm supposed to abide by the policies afforded to gender neutrality and at the same time appreciate women for their particular women sensibilities? I'm confused.


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

What if the answer were yes?

What if the answer was no?

Maybe it’s best to just avoid people on the job. Ha.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

As a social scientist, I've discovered that efforts towards empowering particular groups are often driven by an insecurity of masculinity. Consequently, masculinity is mimicked by way of assertive and aggressive behavior amongst these groups, to a point where it is often more intense than would be demonstrated amongst the standard male. Unfortunately, this has the potential to elevate unnecessary masculine behavior. 

Thoughts?


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## Holland (Feb 18, 2011)

Are particular groups driven by an insecurity of masculinity? probably- the numbers would suggest that there will be a few in every crowd. Is that behavior displayed in ways that appear to mimic some masculine traits? sure, why not.
Are male painters threatened by exclusivity among women painters. Probably...some of them.

As a Social Scientist, I find this behavior fascinating.
When observing painters in the wild painter, it's best not disturb them (they can be a bit skittish if approached without coffee or donuts).


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

I’m just going to tell a story here.

A few years back when I was doing that fake brick and clay tile job in DuPont Circle at the Ampeer, many people would stop by to see how it was progressing since it was a cool project. The painters at the site especially took notice so of course I’d shoot the breeze with them as I worked. 
One day this painter stopped in, I’d said hello to him a couple times, and he says, “I want you to be my girlfriend.” I was at the top of a six foot ladder looking up at the ceiling, I didn’t even look down. I replied,” I don’t even know you. Why would you want me to be your girlfriend?”
“Because you’re older, maybe fifty. So, you’re experienced and you wouldn’t ask for much.”
Hmmmm, I turned him down. He walked out sort of hunched over like sad Charlie Brown.

Probably not relevant to this discussion, but there ya’ go.


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

That guy had some serious issues. I don't believe he represents the "standard" male etiquette.

Back to the issue of Identity Marketing. Would "Gentlemen Painting" be considered too masculine?


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

CApainter said:


> That guy had some serious issues. I don't believe he represents the "standard" male etiquette.
> 
> Back to the issue of Identity Marketing. Would "Gentlemen Painting" be considered too masculine?


Since you’re not a woman, you wouldn’t know what standard of etiquette women are subjected to, would ya’?

The following are too masculine, IMO :

Tough Dude Painting and Wrestling
He Man Women Haters Club Super Painting
Brawny Painting and Cleaning Service
Hercules Painting and Decor

As for identity marketing, don’t you think all marketing has that component to it?


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## CApainter (Jun 29, 2007)

fauxlynn said:


> Since you’re not a woman, you wouldn’t know what standard of etiquette women are subjected to, would ya’?
> 
> The following are too masculine, IMO :
> 
> ...


You're right. I have no idea what standard of etiquette women are subject to by men. But as a man, I do have an idea of what male etiquette towards women should look like based on my own values. And verbally pawing a women stranger on a ladder, is not good etiquette. It's actually kind of psychotic.

As far as identity marketing, it's natural to target a specific market as long as it's socially conscientious to the powers that be. However, one of the most cringey marketing efforts targeted to men, has to be that impotent commercial that shows these very sensual women strolling on the beach while taking seductive glances behind them at, no doubt, some sweaty slob in a stained Lazy Boy somewhere who thinks a blue pill will actually "Git me some of that!"


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## fauxlynn (Apr 28, 2011)

CApainter said:


> You're right. I have no idea what standard of etiquette women are subject to by men. But as a man, I do have an idea of what male etiquette towards women should look like based on my own values. And verbally pawing a women stranger on a ladder, is not good etiquette. It's actually kind of psychotic.
> 
> As far as identity marketing, it's natural to target a specific market as long as it's socially conscientious to the powers that be. However, one of the most cringey marketing efforts targeted to men, has to be that impotent commercial that shows these very sensual women strolling on the beach while taking seductive glances behind them at, no doubt, some sweaty slob in a stained Lazy Boy somewhere who thinks a blue pill will actually "Git me some of that!"


It seems that’s a perfect example of marketing to masculine insecurity.

If I were going to choose a company name based on what gender employee would make up the crews, it’s going to perhaps limit my appeal to the masses. When I read “Gentleman Painting”, I honestly wondered if you could get the job done. My bias tells me a gentleman wouldn’t be in the painting field.

I would totally hire someone from Gentlemen Butler Service.

Did I step in it yet? Pay no attention to the old lady behind the curtain.


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## Redux (Oct 27, 2018)

__
http://instagr.am/p/CPkppS1BSUk/


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## stelzerpaintinginc. (May 9, 2012)

I've had 4 women paint for me over the years. The only issue I ever had was how men interacted with them. Many socially awkward instances where men just didn't seem to know how to act around em. Many tried being "overly chivalrous", like a high school kid on a prom date. None of the women I ever worked with expected nor wanted special treatment; only to be treated as any other worker. Because of this, IMHO, staffing a painting company exclusively with women-only painters does nothing to propel "equality" in the trades, but quite the opposite, (especially given the fact that maybe 5%-10%? of all applicants for painters are women). 
If you have 5 spots open and women are the best candidates, (and they may very well be), then you might find yourself with a women-only crew, and that's wonderful. However, to limit your choice of applicants by ONLY hiring women painters, I think you'd be doing everyone involved a disservice. Not claiming that my way of thinking is right--it's just the way I think is all.


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## celicaxx (May 29, 2015)

fauxlynn said:


> Since you’re not a woman, you wouldn’t know what standard of etiquette women are subjected to, would ya’?
> 
> The following are too masculine, IMO :
> 
> ...







That reminds me of this.


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## jennifertemple (Oct 30, 2011)

When I first started my business there were no female painters! Everyone I met remembered me because I was "that lady painter". My first 6 months all of my clients were single women and older ladies. They felt much safer dealing with a woman and sent my name far and wide. Being a woman in the beginning was a huge advantage because I was the only one. I also never used trade speak but explained things in terms that were easily understood. I never ran another ad after, about, my third month. Today, there are so many women in the business I doubt it would give me the same edge if I was starting out today.
BTW: I never, once, experienced any issues working alonside male painters. Respect seemed to run both ways. If the work was good, that's all that mattered, it seemed.


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## dickgrayson (Aug 23, 2021)

CApainter said:


> Is that Bill Gates! What's this world coming too?! First the Wheaties guy, now this. This brings a whole new meaning to microsoft.


Ammm...
This is part time job of Bill Gates...


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