# Double cutting over blankstock



## Hanger in VT (Aug 5, 2008)

I have a Schumaker handprint to hang next week in a bathroom over blankstock. I could paste and trim it on the table, but in my experience, the seams look better if I double cut on the wall. Though I have a pretty light touch, I am a bit worried about cutting on the lining paper. What would you guys do?


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## Windmilldecor (Mar 17, 2013)

Double cut lightly


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## two fingers (Sep 28, 2014)

Hanger in VT said:


> I have a Schumaker handprint to hang next week in a bathroom over blankstock. I could paste and trim it on the table, but in my experience, the seams look better if I double cut on the wall. Though I have a pretty light touch, I am a bit worried about cutting on the lining paper. What would you guys do?


Table trim


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

A hanger in Richmond VA sells 2" wide rolls many yards long of 1/8" thick polycarbonate, we call them Boggess Strips (the hanger's name is Steve Boggess) . It is used to as a padding behind the d.c.'s so you don't score wall or cut into the blankstock. MANY guys LOVE it. I don't. 

So I take strips of two or three thicknesses of the paper and use them UNDER the paper as a cutting pad. And still using a delicate hand. 

OR, I use the rolls of 1.5" wide type II vinyl I have pre-cut (with a saw).


BTW, which FSC paper comes with selvedge??


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## two fingers (Sep 28, 2014)

daArch said:


> A hanger in Richmond VA sells 2" wide rolls many yards long of 1/8" thick polycarbonate, we call them Boggess Strips (the hanger's name is Steve Boggess) . It is used to as a padding behind the d.c.'s so you don't score wall or cut into the blankstock. MANY guys LOVE it. I don't.
> 
> So I take strips of two or three thicknesses of the paper and use them UNDER the paper as a cutting pad. And still using a delicate hand.
> 
> ...


How often do the seams meet properly? 1/8" is pretty thick.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

two fingers said:


> How often do the seams meet properly? 1/8" is pretty thick.


OK, it may be 1/16" (I have a roll in the van, but I'm too lazy to go and measure it) but that's one of the reasons I don't use the "Boggess Strips", the seams pucker and I end up with a wired seam. Others don't seem to have the problem. 

Steve also has shown a product he got from Japan that is a roll of very thin metal that is used for the same thing. 

I prefer a paper or vinyl padding, just like I don't like table trimming on plate glass or the magnesium strip. I like a softer surface.


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## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

two fingers said:


> Table trim


 Wet or dry?



:cowboy:


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Underdog said:


> Wet or dry?
> 
> 
> 
> :cowboy:


I would think whichever is one's preference. 

Although I understand the advantages of of wet table trimming, and can do so precisely with blankstock or splitting a strip in a corner, I do better table trimming dry by the bolt.


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## Hanger in VT (Aug 5, 2008)

daArch;601473
BTW said:


> Pattern No 5005322 run No. 3
> I was a bit surprised to see selvedge as well. Years ago, I used to hang lots of Shumacher paper, but not in the in the last decade or two. The selvedges I am used to seeing had trim marks, little squares showing the different colors used in each screening, and usually the manufacturers name. This selvedge was just blank. When I first looked at it, I thought there was a defect. The label said 27" wide, but the paper was 30" wide. To make matters worse, the instructions said a 1000 grade of lining paper should be hung first, as this was a *non woven* and the walls should be pasted rather than pasting the paper. I followed the instructions to the letter, dry trimming, and pasting the wall with 838. By the time I was into the 2nd strip, the 1st was expanding and wrinkling. I hung one more strip, then tried to work out all the wrinkles that were forming. It looked bad and I stopped.
> 
> I called Schumacher and spoke to Rhonda in claims. She said they mistakenly labeled it wrong and included the wrong instructions. She offered to replace two double rolls. I removed what I had hung, but the blankstock came down with it. By the time I cleaned up, the whole day was shot. Now I am waiting for the replacement paper, and am wondering if I should double cut on the blankstock. At this point, I am wondering if the blankstock was necessary.
> ...


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

This is why I tell HO's and designers/decorators NOT TO BUY SCUMMAKER papers. F-ing assholes shipped three defective papers two years ago (three separate jobs) , causing me insane scheduling headaches that rippled for six months. 

So this is NOT a non-woven? Use the liner and trim as you would any other untrimmed paper. Many guys I know will d.c. on liner with padding. I dry table trim. 

I prefer a paper WITHOUT trim marks as usually the trim marks are inaccurate. I trim precisely to the pattern. 

I HATE non-wovens that demand the use of a liner. WHY a liner? Unless the walls are crap. And I will NOT paste the lined walls for a non-woven. I tried that once with a flock and had a MISERABLE day. 

You should try to hit FSC up for $$$$. They admitted it was their mistake, you followed THEIR instructions. THEIR liability. 

AT least charge the decorator what time it took you. This was NOT your fault. You should back charge whoever supplied you with bad goods. Don't be the victim due to fvck-ups beyond your control. 

But DO tell all future customers that FSC has tanked and their papers can not be trusted to be anywhere near the quality they should be - especially for their prices.


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

Bill, you really should not hold your felling's in, especially at this point in your career


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

chrisn said:


> Bill, you really should not hold your felling's in, especially at this point in your career


So Chris, what's you opinion of Norwall ? or Behr ?

let him hold those "felling's" in


:whistling2:  



You've taught me well to let it all "hang" out :thumbup:


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## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

daArch said:


> I would think whichever is one's preference.
> 
> Although I understand the advantages of of wet table trimming, and can do so precisely with blankstock or splitting a strip in a corner, I do better table trimming dry by the bolt.


 I've known you do it the same way as me; I was getting to know Two Fingers. (That's a great name, wonder what it's origins are)


:cowboy:


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## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

Hanger in VT said:


> Pattern No 5005322 run No. 3
> I was a bit surprised to see selvedge as well. Years ago, I used to hang lots of Shumacher paper, but not in the in the last decade or two. The selvedges I am used to seeing had trim marks, little squares showing the different colors used in each screening, and usually the manufacturers name. This selvedge was just blank. When I first looked at it, I thought there was a defect. The label said 27" wide, but the paper was 30" wide. To make matters worse, the instructions said a 1000 grade of lining paper should be hung first, as this was a *non woven* and the walls should be pasted rather than pasting the paper. I followed the instructions to the letter, dry trimming, and pasting the wall with 838. By the time I was into the 2nd strip, the 1st was expanding and wrinkling. I hung one more strip, then tried to work out all the wrinkles that were forming. It looked bad and I stopped.
> 
> I called Schumacher and spoke to Rhonda in claims. She said they mistakenly labeled it wrong and included the wrong instructions. She offered to replace two double rolls. I removed what I had hung, but the blankstock came down with it. By the time I cleaned up, the whole day was shot. Now I am waiting for the replacement paper, and am wondering if I should double cut on the blankstock. At this point, I am wondering if the blankstock was necessary.
> ...


 Turns out it's spelled selvage... mostly.

My experience exactly. I agree with daArch... hate, hate, hate it. Back in the day we had the worst time getting the seams to lay down.

My one experience telling the decorator and the homeowner that the labor price was basically going to double, they contacted the manufacturer who told me I didn't have to hang liner paper. Ever since I have never hung liner paper even when the instructions call for it. 


Been there done that, bought the t-shirt. Whenever I get that symptom I now don't believe that THOSE types of ripples can be worked out. Mostly, as I remember it's primarily an adhesive problem. I get a lot of success with that GH 57 Universal tub paste.

Ha ha, I've had two sets of instructions given to me that contradicted each other.

While I've never received money from a manufacturer before, you sure have the right here... unless they notice that you noticed the discrepancy with the widths and should have known something was wrong. Sorry, my experience with insurance companies is showing through.

Ran out of colors so I have to underline. Kudos to you. I have huge respect for installers that muscle through the unpleasant ones.


:cowboy:


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## chrisn (Jul 15, 2007)

daArch said:


> So Chris, what's you opinion of Norwall ? or Behr ?
> 
> let him hold those "felling's" in
> 
> ...


feelings


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## ttalbon (Aug 6, 2009)

Wow that's a really colourful post!


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## Underdog (Mar 9, 2013)

ttalbon said:


> Wow that's a really colourful post!


 I got carried away.


.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Underdog said:


> I got carried away.
> 
> 
> .


Most hangers are by the end of the day


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxVkAhto0Ag


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Underdog said:


> Turns out it's spelled selvage... mostly.


the two COMMON spellings are selvage or selvedge

and I've seen it spelled "salvage" but that person also spells lambasted as
"land blasted"

BTW, I prefer "selvedge"


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## Hanger in VT (Aug 5, 2008)

daArch said:


> You should try to hit FSC up for $$$$. They admitted it was their mistake, you followed THEIR instructions. THEIR liability.
> 
> AT least charge the decorator what time it took you. This was NOT your fault. You should back charge whoever supplied you with bad goods. Don't be the victim due to fvck-ups beyond your control.
> .


My sentiments exactly, though I wont hold my breath waiting to be compensated. I've never heard of a manufacturer paying labor claims, and the decorator, who I've never even met, is already crying about exceeding the estimate. Oh, well....I am only a few years from retirement and not much into stress or drama at this point, so I'll probably let it slide and go on to the next job. Thanks for the good advice anyway.


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## daArch (Mar 15, 2008)

Hanger in VT said:


> My sentiments exactly, though I wont hold my breath waiting to be compensated. I've never heard of a manufacturer paying labor claims, and the decorator, who I've never even met, is already crying about exceeding the estimate. Oh, well....I am only a few years from retirement and not much into stress or drama at this point, so I'll probably let it slide and go on to the next job. Thanks for the good advice anyway.


I did my last job today for my favorite decorator. I brought up this thread because Scummaker screwed TWO jobs of hers. She won't use their papers again. Even her assistant was commenting how EVERYone is telling bad stories about Scummaker. 

BTW, I am NOT going to miss pedestal sinks :no: :no: :no: Today's was a 24" wide pedestal in a 36" wide powder, with a TP like pulp. Three cuts I literally had to make BLIND, I had to feel and cut. 

I HATE PEDESTAL SINKS. I'm gonna love retirement :thumbsup:


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